Denman Island Local Trust Committee regular meeting, January 19, 2022

[0:00:00] Voice 18: and any um ads or changes to that agenda yes trustee fast yes

[0:00:09] Trustee Fast (probable): uh perhaps under new business

[0:00:11] Trustee Fast (probable): i just want to report on the um uh denman island local trust committee has uh submitted a request

[0:00:19] Trustee Fast (probable): for trust council to reconsider and add that full-time position for electronic meeting support

[0:00:26] Trustee Fast (probable): so if we could put that under new business maybe i'll just mention it it can't be on the

[0:00:31] Trustee Fast (probable): agenda today but i'll just speak to it briefly because it happened last week very

[0:00:36] Voice 18: good i've got

[0:00:37] Voice 18: you there under eight new new business thank

[0:00:41] Trustee Fast (probable): you anybody

[0:00:42] Voice 18: else hearing none i will take it by general

[0:00:45] Voice 18: consent that we're approving the agenda thank you um so um we have the minutes um of uh our last

[0:00:54] Voice 18: meeting, November 10th, 2021. Any ads, changes, concerns about that? Thank you. By the way,

[0:01:05] Voice 18: I have asked both Robert and Paul to intervene if I'm off track or if somebody is getting missed,

[0:01:13] Voice 18: or generally they want to intervene for whatever reason. So I appreciate their help in advance.

[0:01:19] Voice 18: So let us turn to them. Let us approve the minutes by general consent then resolution without meeting we have none.

[0:01:30] Voice 18: Follow up action list 11 page 11 to 13. Julia, any ads or changes or comments.

[0:01:40] Voice 13: Just a couple of comments share I'll be very brief. So there's just a few items on the follow up action list that are still noted as in progress.

[0:01:47] Voice 13: us. The first one on the list has been there for quite a while. It's an assessment of the

[0:01:50] Voice 13: trustee offices on the various islands. So my plan is to have that assessment at least drafted for

[0:01:56] Voice 13: the February FPC meeting. The next two items on the list, so still on page 11, are marked with a

[0:02:03] Voice 13: target date of January 19th, which is today. Unfortunately, those two items are not on the

[0:02:08] Voice 13: agenda today. I've been without human resources staff for several weeks now, and so that's been

[0:02:14] Voice 13: been taking up my time so there hasn't been capacity to look at those policies. I will look

[0:02:18] Voice 13: at bringing them back to the February FPC meeting which means February's meeting might be a bit of

[0:02:23] Voice 13: a lengthy one but today's meeting should be a little bit shorter so hopefully that will make

[0:02:28] Voice 13: up for it. The only item I'll comment on is over on page 13. It's a report from Director Marler

[0:02:35] Voice 13: on recovering costs related to building permit referrals and that report is actually on today's

[0:02:39] Voice 13: agenda for review everything else is marked as completed thank

[0:02:43] Voice 18: you very much uh julia and as

[0:02:45] Voice 18: always we do all appreciate so much the work you do for us and um so you're not in the office i

[0:02:51] Voice 18: take it from the look of your background there

[0:02:53] Voice 13: that's right i'm working remotely today good okay

[0:02:58] Voice 18: uh any questions or thoughts about the follow-up action list from anybody

[0:03:02] Voice 18: anybody so we'll just accept that or thank you um delegations says here we have none has anybody

[0:03:11] Voice 18: shown up uh

[0:03:13] Voice 15: sure we have no delegations but there are three members of the public in attendance and

[0:03:18] Voice 15: they may wish to speak during your public comment period okay

[0:03:23] Voice 18: well this is the public comment period

[0:03:25] Voice 18: I guess so we should invite some anybody who'd like to speak at this point to do so is that right

[0:03:31] Voice 15: it is yes good

[0:03:32] Voice 18: so so be it um is there anybody in the public who would like to speak

[0:03:37] Voice 18: i

[0:03:38] Voice 15: see one hand up marie boland okay

[0:03:42] Voice 18: yes so go ahead marie um thank

[0:03:48] Voice 4: you um okay so um thank you

[0:03:52] Voice 4: for the time i appreciate it sorry

[0:03:54] Voice 18: speaking of speaking of time we generally allow for two

[0:03:57] Voice 18: minutes so um if you can i

[0:03:59] Voice 4: think it's due to it can be more but i am pretty succinct so good at

[0:04:05] Voice 4: your discretion and if there aren't many people obviously waiting i think it can be four or five

[0:04:11] Voice 4: minutes but okay let's go yeah thank you so i just want to draw your attention again to the budget

[0:04:19] Voice 4: and the feedback survey in november 2021 i became aware of the poor timing of the ireland's trust

[0:04:26] Voice 4: Trust Budget Feedback Survey. The Islands Trust Survey is launched in late January. It takes place

[0:04:33] Voice 4: over 10 days. Survey results are provided to the Financial Planning Committee in mid-February

[0:04:40] Voice 4: and the budget is adopted by Trust Council approximately 10 to 15 working days later.

[0:04:47] Voice 4: How can this survey have any impact on the adopted budget, I ask myself. After my delegation in

[0:04:54] Voice 4: december 2021 to the trust council when my request that i islands trust use last year's

[0:05:02] Voice 4: results was disregarded i decided to conduct a citizen survey based on the central question

[0:05:09] Voice 4: asked in each of the i.t past surveys in january 2022 i launched the citizen survey with the

[0:05:18] Voice 4: question which each of the previous IT surveys 2019, 2020 and 2021 had asked. The question attempts

[0:05:29] Voice 4: in their survey, that question attempts too much and creates confusion and difficulty in

[0:05:35] Voice 4: interpreting results. However, in an effort to allow comparison year on year, I copied this

[0:05:42] Voice 4: this question slavishly for my citizen survey.

[0:05:46] Voice 4: The question was, what budget principle do you support?

[0:05:52] Voice 4: There are four possible answers,

[0:05:54] Voice 4: increase, decrease, straightforward,

[0:05:56] Voice 4: and then two flavors of keep the same.

[0:05:59] Voice 4: Keep the same, but change the services,

[0:06:02] Voice 4: some more, some less.

[0:06:03] Voice 4: Keep the same and maintain the services as they are.

[0:06:08] Voice 4: The results of the survey were provided

[0:06:11] Voice 4: to the islands trust yesterday and previously i believe as well as of today 524 people which is

[0:06:20] Voice 4: quite significant the islands trust last january was approximately 800 i think people responded

[0:06:27] Voice 4: from across the islands of whom 316 commented 42 percent of islanders want the budget expenditures

[0:06:38] Voice 4: taxes to be reduced through the reduction of services and programs. 90% want no increase.

[0:06:48] Voice 4: This is the sum of those who want a reduction, 42%, and those who want the budget to remain the

[0:06:55] Voice 4: same, two flavors, 12% and 35%. 9% voted for increased expenditure and activities.

[0:07:04] Voice 4: The trends through the IT surveys 2019, 2020, 2021, and now this survey are significant.

[0:07:14] Voice 4: None more so than this one, 38% wanted an increase in 2019.

[0:07:22] Voice 4: By January 2021, it was 20%, and now in January 2022, it is 9%.

[0:07:31] Voice 4: In summary, the survey is conducted too late in the budget's planning cycle to be effective, and the key question is poorly set out.

[0:07:43] Voice 4: Little effort is spent analysing the results.

[0:07:47] Voice 4: In my opinion, the public feedback survey results are not being used to develop or to adjust the budget.

[0:07:56] Voice 4: I would add, I used Google Forms to create the survey. It's fit for purpose and free.

[0:08:02] Voice 4: I encourage you to go to the survey results online if you don't find it easy to interact with the pie charts.

[0:08:10] Voice 4: I could easily share my screen and do a demonstration and answer questions.

[0:08:15] Voice 4: Contact me if you would like that. So thank you very much.

[0:08:20] Voice 18: Thank you.

[0:08:21] Voice 18: Thank you very much. That's very helpful feedback and we appreciate it.

[0:08:26] Voice 18: it thank you so

[0:08:27] Voice 4: i have one other thing peter margie gang wrote some suggestions for cost

[0:08:33] Voice 4: reductions and she asked me to read them and i can wait until other people have spoken or i can

[0:08:39] Voice 4: carry straight on it's equally succinct um

[0:08:43] Voice 18: go ahead please okay

[0:08:44] Voice 4: so margie gang lives on denman

[0:08:48] Voice 4: Ireland. She doesn't like to speak in public so she asked me to to read some of her suggestions

[0:08:56] Voice 4: for cost cutting and some thoughts about how expenditures could be scaled back. Cost saving

[0:09:06] Voice 4: recommendations from the governance review should be implemented. A community referendum should

[0:09:14] Voice 4: decide which community environmental initiatives are funded per Bill 26. Do not spend public money

[0:09:22] Voice 4: on advocacy letter writing to higher jurisdictions. A two or three year moratorium on new hires,

[0:09:31] Voice 4: sponsorship applications, co-op students. New projects should be achievable in one fiscal year

[0:09:39] Voice 4: year or deferred. Projects such as Climate Indicators Project and Freshwater Sustainability

[0:09:47] Voice 4: Strategy are too ambitious and costly given the population of the trust area. Rely on information

[0:09:54] Voice 4: from other larger agencies and acknowledge limitations. Development application fees

[0:10:02] Voice 4: should cover a much larger share of the actual processing costs. Development applications

[0:10:09] Voice 4: Applications processed through the Capital Region and Nanaimo Region, and maybe other

[0:10:14] Voice 4: regional districts, should not require pre-approval from the Islands Trust.

[0:10:21] Voice 4: Mapping initiatives should reflect need, not technological capability.

[0:10:25] Voice 4: If maps haven't been used for meaningful work in a year, they shouldn't be updated until

[0:10:32] Voice 4: a need arises.

[0:10:35] Voice 4: Numbers of staff attending committee meetings should be limited.

[0:10:39] Voice 4: Numbers of planners on staff should be similar to numbers of planners on staff in other jurisdictions of similar population.

[0:10:49] Voice 4: And finally, on communication and engagement with the community, elected trustees should serve as communication specialists.

[0:10:58] Voice 4: At least three LTC meetings in a year should be replaced by a trust cafe session on a weekend or evening.

[0:11:09] Voice 4: These should serve coffee and cookies, play music, other friendly things.

[0:11:14] Voice 4: And the trustees should explain in plain language what's happening in the IT, including controversial issues and costs of programs.

[0:11:24] Voice 4: Trustees should include an explanation of the governance structure of the IT, its jurisdiction and what projects and problems are ongoing on other islands and how their LTCs are coping with them.

[0:11:39] Voice 4: Sincerely, Margie Gann, Denman Island. Thank you.

[0:11:43] Voice 18: Thank you. And please thank Margie very much. We've actually received her input, I believe.

[0:11:49] Voice 18: I certainly have, and I expect everybody else on the committee has.

[0:11:52] Voice 18: Anyway, thank you very much for attending and for your input.

[0:11:56] Voice 18: And Don Corbin, I see your hand is up, and I think you're the only other person requesting to speak.

[0:12:03] Voice 18: So, Don, go ahead.

[0:12:06] Voice 2: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[0:12:09] Voice 2: I would like to submit the Islands Trust budget must be brought under control,

[0:12:15] Voice 2: First by stabilizing it and then by reducing it over time.

[0:12:19] Voice 2: To do this, I would suggest the following.

[0:12:22] Voice 2: One, staff levels need to be frozen and new hiring, even for vacancies, prohibited for the coming year.

[0:12:30] Voice 2: Plans need to be put into place to reduce staff.

[0:12:34] Voice 2: Over the years, I submit trustees have refused to control the growth of the trust staffing levels.

[0:12:42] Voice 2: levels. If staffing is not controlled, our taxes will not be controlled. Secondly, total

[0:12:49] Voice 2: taxes this year needs to be frozen and a plan developed to reduce mill rates and tax revenues

[0:12:56] Voice 2: over future years. Thirdly, in future years, if any, new hiring takes place to fill vacancies

[0:13:05] Voice 2: even while staff counts are falling.

[0:13:09] Voice 2: I suggest the place of employment must be on one

[0:13:13] Voice 2: of the islands, not in Victoria.

[0:13:16] Voice 2: Employees of a local government should reside

[0:13:18] Voice 2: in the local area.

[0:13:20] Voice 2: The Victoria office needs to be closed over time

[0:13:24] Voice 2: and this will occur only if all new employees work

[0:13:28] Voice 2: in the trust area.

[0:13:30] Voice 2: Thank you.

[0:13:33] Voice 18: And thank you very much, Don.

[0:13:35] Voice 18: on does anybody on the committee have anything to add at this point or shall we move move forward

[0:13:42] Voice 18: hearing none let us move to six which is 6.1 the budget public consultation rfb julia can you take

[0:13:54] Voice 18: us through that please this

[0:13:57] Voice 13: is actually coming to the committee from director freighter so she'll

[0:13:59] Voice 13: be speaking to it today director

[0:14:01] Voice 18: fader the floor is yours thank

[0:14:04] Voice 6: you and good morning financial

[0:14:05] Voice 6: Planning Committee. I'm happy to bring you a draft survey this year for your discussion

[0:14:10] Voice 6: and editing. You will note, as I've described in the briefing,

[0:14:15] Voice 7: we've taken a similar approach to

[0:14:17] Voice 7: previous years, but this year we have actually provided some different information, which I've

[0:14:21] Voice 7: highlighted at the bottom of page 15 of your agenda, or sorry, top of page 15, which is that

[0:14:28] Voice 7: we've tried to convey some of the budget information in a new way, and we'd like your

[0:14:31] Voice 7: feedback on that the survey this year will be open for 17 days which is the same number of days it

[0:14:37] Voice 7: was open last year and we are prepared to launch this friday hoping to incorporate whatever feedback

[0:14:44] Voice 7: you give us today into the survey we are as we have done in previous years setting up a survey

[0:14:50] Voice 7: where um questions specific to salt spring will only be available to salt spring residents and

[0:14:55] Voice 7: people who identify as being primarily connected to bowen would not see the land use planning

[0:15:00] Voice 7: question. What I'm hoping to do with you today with the consent of the chair is share the attract

[0:15:07] Voice 7: changes version of the survey in word such that we could then show you a few a couple of errors

[0:15:13] Voice 7: that we've identified that we'd like to correct and also to provide you the opportunity to offer

[0:15:18] Voice 7: edits to the survey that we could then incorporate after this meeting. I will note that despite best

[0:15:24] Voice 7: efforts just a lack of time and potentially doability has prevented us from being able to

[0:15:29] Voice 7: to bring you the description of the tax increase

[0:15:33] Voice 7: in dollars per 100,000 of assessed value.

[0:15:36] Voice 7: So our apologies for that,

[0:15:38] Voice 7: it's just not been achievable this year.

[0:15:39] Voice 7: I know that was something many of you hoped for,

[0:15:41] Voice 7: but it just isn't possible in this timeframe.

[0:15:44] Voice 7: So we are gonna suggest that that language

[0:15:46] Voice 7: be taken out of the draft survey.

[0:15:48] Voice 7: With that, we will be promoting the survey

[0:15:51] Voice 7: through a number of channels, including social media,

[0:15:53] Voice 7: the subscriber service, and we will encourage all of you

[0:15:56] Voice 7: to help spread the words in your community as well,

[0:15:59] Voice 7: because we want I know you all want to hear from as many people as possible so

[0:16:03] Voice 7: with that perhaps I'll see if there's any questions about that introduction

[0:16:06] Voice 7: and then I would share screen to show you the draft survey in word and walk

[0:16:11] Voice 7: you through the proposed changes we as staff would like to suggest and then

[0:16:14] Voice 7: we'd like to hear your suggested edits thank

[0:16:17] Voice 18: you very much please please

[0:16:20] Voice 18: proceed

[0:16:21] Voice 7: okay so just take me a moment then if there's no questions right one

[0:16:27] Voice 7: moment here let me just navigate back um

[0:16:36] Voice 12: my apologies chair there's a couple of hands up

[0:16:39] Voice 18: sorry yes i was busy i was sticking pins in people

[0:16:46] Voice 18: let me start from the top left of my screen uh chair or peter luckham yes

[0:16:53] Planner Mayes (probable): thank you i'm

[0:16:53] Planner Mayes (probable): not sure this is the right time but it seems maybe before we get into the detail of it

[0:17:01] Planner Mayes (probable): given what we've heard from one of the speakers in the town hall about the timing

[0:17:08] Planner Mayes (probable): and obviously our own observations on that, you know, there's another survey out there

[0:17:19] Planner Mayes (probable): which may or may not help with the public responding to our own,

[0:17:25] Planner Mayes (probable): perhaps thinking that they've already filled out a survey.

[0:17:29] Planner Mayes (probable): So I'm just wondering about what recommendations we might make to a future council, obviously,

[0:17:37] Planner Mayes (probable): with respect to the timing of the buildup and preparation of the budget package,

[0:17:44] Planner Mayes (probable): and particularly about that opportunity to send out that survey in an earlier timeframe

[0:17:50] Planner Mayes (probable): in order to provide a greater facility for members of the public to review that.

[0:17:56] Planner Mayes (probable): so just would be interested to the chair uh what uh how we might maybe find some options to be a

[0:18:03] Planner Mayes (probable): bit made available to us in a future cycle about how to improve this process glad

[0:18:10] Voice 18: you have any

[0:18:11] Voice 18: thoughts on that so

[0:18:12] Voice 7: certainly um each generally november we bring you a project charter for the

[0:18:17] Voice 7: budget engagement process um and it is what is con what affects timing is the ability to bring

[0:18:23] Voice 7: it to this meeting of bring the survey to this financial planning committee meeting for approval

[0:18:28] Voice 7: we've also heard in the past you don't wish to engage over the winter holidays so really we are

[0:18:34] Voice 7: willing to take direction from the committee as to how you'd like to offer that timing and how long

[0:18:39] Voice 7: you'd like it open for and when you'd like it to open and close and certainly if you were to give

[0:18:43] Voice 7: us direction we can incorporate that into a proposed project charter for next year it may

[0:18:48] Voice 7: require that you shift your fpc meeting dates around such that you could then accommodate

[0:18:53] Voice 7: approval of the survey um with to facilitate an earlier launch if that's what you're looking for

[0:18:59] Voice 7: we're here to do whatever you need

[0:19:02] Voice 18: peter luckham do you have a response anything to add well i

[0:19:07] Planner Mayes (probable): might just be proactive then and just say um that uh that fpc could request staff to provide

[0:19:14] Planner Mayes (probable): provide options with providing earlier opportunities for a public survey on the 2023 budget.

[0:19:25] Planner Mayes (probable): Is

[0:19:26] Voice 18: that a motion?

[0:19:28] Voice 18: Yes, sir.

[0:19:29] Voice 18: So is there a seconder? Fast, trustee fast. So thank you. Do you wish to speak any further to that, Peter Luckham?

[0:19:40] Voice 18: No,

[0:19:41] Planner Mayes (probable): I think, admittedly, it might be challenging for us to change our schedules accordingly,

[0:19:47] Planner Mayes (probable): but I think there is merit in considering we might want

[0:19:51] Voice 12: a greater opportunity

[0:19:53] Voice 18: for the public

[0:19:53] Voice 18: response. Peter, just to let you know, we're losing your voice. Maybe it's time to put your

[0:19:58] Voice 18: helmet on. So any comments or thoughts? So I'll put that to the vote. All those in favor?

[0:20:08] Voice 18: I'm

[0:20:08] Trustee Busheikin (probable): sorry I had my hand up well

[0:20:12] Voice 18: sorry I don't see you anywhere um you don't see me

[0:20:17] Trustee Busheikin (probable): there you are

[0:20:19] Voice 18: okay yeah now you're there

[0:20:20] Voice 18: you weren't sorry go ahead

[0:20:22] Voice 18: Laura um

[0:20:24] Trustee Busheikin (probable): uh yeah I just I did want to speak

[0:20:27] Trustee Busheikin (probable): briefly in favor of this motion and I thank you for putting it on the floor um I think that the

[0:20:34] Trustee Busheikin (probable): comments. We heard about timing. For me, I really struck home. I do think we need to do a survey

[0:20:42] Trustee Busheikin (probable): every year. It's inappropriate to just rely on last year's survey, particularly for people who

[0:20:51] Trustee Busheikin (probable): may have changed their opinions or just moved to the island in the last year. And for many reasons,

[0:20:56] Trustee Busheikin (probable): it would have, we lied to people. But like our surveys tend to not ask specific questions about

[0:21:03] Trustee Busheikin (probable): about the planned budget.

[0:21:04] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So I think it could happen quite a bit earlier

[0:21:07] Trustee Busheikin (probable): if it's legally possible

[0:21:09] Trustee Busheikin (probable): because the survey is just general principles

[0:21:11] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and that's very useful earlier on, sorry, in the process

[0:21:17] Trustee Busheikin (probable): when we're looking at the budget in broad strokes

[0:21:19] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and saying what general principles

[0:21:20] Trustee Busheikin (probable): are we trying to make happen?

[0:21:23] Trustee Busheikin (probable): You know, we're not asking people here,

[0:21:24] Trustee Busheikin (probable): well, should we have this co-op student

[0:21:25] Trustee Busheikin (probable): or that co-op student or no co-op student,

[0:21:27] Trustee Busheikin (probable): although they can comment that.

[0:21:29] Trustee Busheikin (probable): The questions are general.

[0:21:31] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So I think if we're gonna,

[0:21:33] Trustee Busheikin (probable): be able to get the most out of it, this, it should happen quite a bit earlier in the whole process.

[0:21:41] Voice 18: Thank you, Laura. I've got Patrick and Rogers and Peter Luckham, your hand is still up. I don't know

[0:21:46] Voice 18: if you want to speak again, but then right now let's hear from Laura Patrick.

[0:21:52] Voice 11: I'm not opposed

[0:21:53] Voice 11: to the motion regarding timing. I think there's broader questions to have than just the financial

[0:21:58] Voice 11: planning committee. Many communities use a variety of types of surveys in combination with the

[0:22:04] Voice 11: financial survey to gauge a number of issues so i think it's a bigger issue than just simply timing

[0:22:09] Voice 11: but that we can look at which which committees need to question that you know because we you

[0:22:14] Voice 11: don't want to over survey your community you want to do it well thank

[0:22:19] Voice 18: you very much dan rogers and

[0:22:20] Voice 18: then uh trustee stamford i'm

[0:22:25] Voice 3: um not opposed to this motion but i i just want to caution a couple

[0:22:30] Voice 3: of things uh one is uh if we did a generic survey about principles it wouldn't have any of the

[0:22:37] Voice 3: budget proposal details in it all the background information that's contained in this because

[0:22:43] Voice 3: um it already feels very like like we're early very early in our in the year considering our

[0:22:51] Voice 3: budget for the following year so um you know fpc sort of starts its work in october for next april

[0:23:01] Voice 3: and trust council doesn't get a look at it till um until december uh unless you change the rotation

[0:23:10] Voice 3: of trust council and you can't take a specific draft budget out until trust councils approved

[0:23:16] Voice 3: It's trust councils budget so I, you know, I could see moving it forward a week or two but I don't know, I don't know how you do it earlier because you, you would end up doing to service, one is general principles.

[0:23:32] Voice 3: What do you think we should be working, you know, spending money on, and then a feedback on a specific budget proposal.

[0:23:40] Voice 3: So, and all of that takes time and resources from our staff to do that kind of public engagement.

[0:23:50] Voice 3: I'm not opposed to it, but as long as we recognize that that's going to take a considerable amount of staff resources to do that kind of earlier public engagement on general principles.

[0:24:03] Voice 3: I can tell you that my regional district in my area is doing its public engagement right now.

[0:24:10] Voice 3: And I participated in it. It's not an unusual process. I appreciate it may sound early, but I can also say I think public feedback does influence people's view when we get to the March Trust Council.

[0:24:25] Voice 3: So I just I just would caution about about trying to change this process markedly without understanding that that it's always better to have a specific draft.

[0:24:40] Voice 3: You engage way more people when they're specific. I think we found out through the trust policy statement that engaging on broad concepts draws in certain numbers of people.

[0:24:50] Voice 3: people but it but not but then when you put specific language on the word specific proposals

[0:24:56] Voice 3: on the table it draws in a whole bunch of other folk um so and I'm more it I think it's important

[0:25:03] Voice 3: to have specific material which is that we don't get till December and I don't see a process where

[0:25:08] Voice 3: we get to it any earlier so just that I will vote in favor of this but I just wanted to say all that

[0:25:13] Voice 3: Thank

[0:25:14] Voice 18: you, Dan. Kate, Louise, and Sue Ellen.

[0:25:18] Voice 18: I

[0:25:18] Voice 9: mean, yeah, it's just a comment about the overall purpose of a budget survey, and that I can't imagine any budget survey going out to any municipality or regional district or any other level of government, where people are not coming back saying reduce taxes.

[0:25:38] Voice 9: access it's going to be a standard part of that so i'm hoping to see a way of engagement in a way

[0:25:47] Voice 9: that demonstrates um what we are doing um to a better extent more ongoing process so that people

[0:25:58] Voice 9: are informed earlier on um because there's what i'm reading is really valuable the responses i'm

[0:26:06] Voice 9: getting um i'm reading everything and um there's some good suggestions there but there's also

[0:26:13] Voice 9: a lot of ideas that the background is is not available for them um and so i'm just not sure

[0:26:22] Voice 9: how valuable um a survey coming back saying reduced taxes is going to help in the overall

[0:26:30] Voice 9: budget process. So that's, I mean, it's a general statement, but I'm not sure what it means in the

[0:26:36] Voice 9: end as we go through

[0:26:37] Voice 18: the detail of this process. Thank you. Point well taken. Sivellen Fast and

[0:26:43] Voice 18: Peter Luckham.

[0:26:45] Trustee Fast (probable): Thank you, Chair. I'm in favor of this motion. That was a similar question that I

[0:26:50] Trustee Fast (probable): was going to ask. I'm wondering, just a comment. Bowen hasn't started its budgeting for the new

[0:26:58] Trustee Fast (probable): year that the municipality so this is ahead of Bowen this year and most years I think I'm

[0:27:10] Trustee Fast (probable): thinking there's a webinar as well there's new tools coming that we could be using so that's

[0:27:16] Trustee Fast (probable): why I'm in favor of asking this question perhaps there are better or different ways options for

[0:27:23] Trustee Fast (probable): for conducting this consultation and finally I want to end with the question is

[0:27:27] Trustee Fast (probable): are there provincial laws that we need to pay attention to or what law do we do this consultation

[0:27:34] Trustee Fast (probable): under if there is one? Thank you.

[0:27:39] Voice 18: Claire do you want to answer that?

[0:27:41] Voice 7: Sure at this I'm not aware

[0:27:43] Voice 7: of any law that requires you to engage on your budget however you do have a policy of trust

[0:27:47] Voice 7: council that's the budget input process policy I believe it's called that guides this process

[0:27:52] Voice 7: and so when we bring a briefing back to you we'll be citing that policy for your consideration

[0:27:56] Voice 7: because that's where trust council might look to wish to make changes thank

[0:27:59] Voice 18: you thank you thank you

[0:28:01] Voice 18: peter luckham your hand is up we can't hear you we still can't hear you

[0:28:08] Planner Mayes (probable): hopefully you can hear me

[0:28:09] Planner Mayes (probable): now okay yes

[0:28:10] Voice 18: yes we can very

[0:28:12] Planner Mayes (probable): good um just well thank you everybody for your support your questions

[0:28:16] Planner Mayes (probable): i just want to be clear i'm not talking about um advancing this significantly early but even

[0:28:23] Planner Mayes (probable): a couple of weeks early would be helpful, I think, and respect the concerns that have been expressed.

[0:28:31] Planner Mayes (probable): And I would like to draw everybody's attention to the Assumptions and Principles document,

[0:28:37] Planner Mayes (probable): which is adopted quite early in our process, which I think is a really is an underrated

[0:28:43] Planner Mayes (probable): piece of work, actually, because it sets out those things that are assumptions and principles

[0:28:49] Planner Mayes (probable): with the development of the budget that are important.

[0:28:52] Planner Mayes (probable): And that messaging about not increasing the budget

[0:28:57] Planner Mayes (probable): or manage it in a respectful way are included in there

[0:29:03] Planner Mayes (probable): as well as those non-discretionary increases that exist

[0:29:08] Planner Mayes (probable): that include salaries and rents

[0:29:12] Planner Mayes (probable): and all those sorts of things.

[0:29:14] Planner Mayes (probable): So, and that's something that is agreed upon earlier on

[0:29:18] Planner Mayes (probable): in the process that could easily also be circulated if we were doing a more robust

[0:29:27] Planner Mayes (probable): level of consultation and not to say that we're not doing a good job already we've improved our

[0:29:33] Planner Mayes (probable): consultation significantly in actually only the last number of years so it's terrific so thank you

[0:29:41] Planner Mayes (probable): and

[0:29:42] Voice 18: thank you now dan rogers has some closing comments and then we're going to put this

[0:29:45] Voice 18: Sorry,

[0:29:45] Voice 3: I just wanted to comment. I knew that I had seen this somewhere and I don't know the legislative requirement, but if we go to the provincial website, it says prior to adopting a financial plan, a local government must undergo public consultation.

[0:30:00] Voice 3: the level of public consultation is not defined and may include and then gives a series of things

[0:30:05] Voice 3: so and i know someone had said that somewhere along the way and i just i think it's probably

[0:30:10] Voice 3: in the local government act or the community charter somewhere good

[0:30:13] Voice 18: thank you robert can

[0:30:14] Voice 18: you remind us of the motion that's before us uh

[0:30:22] Voice 15: trustee grove no i can't as i did not capture it

[0:30:26] Voice 15: i didn't realize a motion was being put forward but we do have the recording um

[0:30:32] Voice 18: peter larkin would

[0:30:33] Voice 18: Would you like to repeat the motion?

[0:30:38] Voice 18: You're muted, you're muted, you're muted.

[0:30:43] Planner Mayes (probable): Can you hear me now?

[0:30:45] Planner Mayes (probable): Yeah.

[0:30:46] Planner Mayes (probable): Okay, sorry.

[0:30:47] Planner Mayes (probable): Hard to repeat it in the same fashion,

[0:30:49] Planner Mayes (probable): but that FPC requests staff to provide options

[0:30:54] Planner Mayes (probable): with regards to earlier consultation

[0:30:59] Planner Mayes (probable): on the budget and budget process.

[0:31:02] Voice 18: And Sue Ellen seconded the first version.

[0:31:05] Voice 18: Are you happy with this version, Sue Ellen?

[0:31:07] Voice 18: Good. Having said that, I'm going to put this to the vote.

[0:31:10] Voice 18: So all those in favor, do we want to use digital hands?

[0:31:14] Voice 18: Staff tells me we should.

[0:31:16] Voice 18: So in that case, we will.

[0:31:18] Voice 18: And if I can find my hand, good.

[0:31:23] Voice 18: Looks like all are in favor.

[0:31:25] Voice 18: Thank you so much.

[0:31:26] Voice 18: We can now lower our hands and get on with the next item,

[0:31:32] Voice 18: which is, there's a motion here to,

[0:31:39] Voice 18: with regard to the public engagement survey would anyone like to make that motion i've got kate louise

[0:31:45] Voice 18: stanford followed by tim peterson mr chair mr chair

[0:31:51] Voice 12: was going to go through the

[0:31:53] Voice 7: with your

[0:31:57] Voice 7: consent chair i had hoped to share the survey and you

[0:32:00] Voice 18: are correct thank you so much i was just

[0:32:02] Voice 18: roaring ahead as i as i tend to so

[0:32:06] Voice 7: if you're comfortable would you like me to walk through

[0:32:09] Voice 18: totally comfortable please do okay thank you

[0:32:11] Voice 18: your hand is up by the way

[0:32:13] Voice 7: i'm i'm trying to get it

[0:32:14] Voice 7: down okay

[0:32:16] Voice 18: working hard here

[0:32:18] Voice 18: okay okay

[0:32:19] Voice 7: so thank you committee uh this is in the word version the same

[0:32:24] Voice 7: copy of the survey that you have in the um your agenda package it has been copied into survey

[0:32:29] Voice 7: monkey to show you how it would be presented in the survey itself but this is the easiest way

[0:32:33] Voice 7: for us to make changes and for you to um find some consent for what those changes look like

[0:32:39] Voice 7: we'll use tracks changes for any changes you might wish um so at the beginning here we have the same

[0:32:43] Voice 7: introduction very similar to what we've done in previous years you'll notice here that we are

[0:32:48] Voice 7: highlighting the budget webinar that we'll discuss later on your agenda but that will be a webinar

[0:32:52] Voice 7: about the budget on January 27th at 7 pm so we'll highlight that right in the survey and we'll also

[0:32:59] Voice 7: be featuring it in much of the promotion about the survey and engagement process the survey as

[0:33:04] Voice 7: I mentioned will be open for 17 days and we think it will take about 15 minutes to complete we

[0:33:11] Voice 7: we provide all the legal language here

[0:33:13] Voice 7: and then collect the same demographic information

[0:33:15] Voice 7: that we've completed in prior surveys.

[0:33:18] Voice 7: As I mentioned, we will make contingent questions

[0:33:22] Voice 7: for people from Bowen and Salt Spring

[0:33:24] Voice 7: as we've done in prior years as well.

[0:33:27] Voice 7: What we've done this year is have demonstrated revenue here

[0:33:30] Voice 7: and right now in the trust area,

[0:33:32] Voice 7: what's the proposed budget after accounting

[0:33:34] Voice 7: for the new BC assessment data

[0:33:37] Voice 7: shows that there would be a 4.88% tax increase

[0:33:42] Voice 7: for local trust area residents.

[0:33:44] Voice 7: And in addition, a 1.25% tax revenue

[0:33:48] Voice 7: from new construction and development.

[0:33:50] Voice 7: For Bowen Island municipality,

[0:33:52] Voice 7: it's a 4% overall increase with a 3.07% tax levy

[0:33:57] Voice 7: to existing taxpayers and a 0.9% tax increase

[0:34:01] Voice 7: from new development and construction.

[0:34:04] Voice 7: You'll note here just in the red subtract changes, we decided on for the review that we haven't rounded these numbers. So our proposals to just for consistency through the survey will round the to the thousand closest thousand through the survey.

[0:34:17] Voice 7: And that's noted there.

[0:34:20] Voice 7: Now we've got a pie chart here for revenue sources, I'll just make this slightly smaller actually so we can scroll. Oops, not that small.

[0:34:26] Voice 7: all um so we can my apologies folks we've got revenue and then down here we move into expenditures

[0:34:35] Voice 7: to demonstrate you'll see here we're recommending some changes um prime is that size now is that

[0:34:43] Voice 7: size good for all okay hearing no complaints we'll do that within this we've tried to demonstrate the

[0:34:50] Voice 7: full or the highlights of the full budget um in terms of um the different buckets we're calling

[0:34:56] Voice 7: them for expenditures um can

[0:34:59] Voice 3: you make it bigger i didn't realize you had um you had tracked you

[0:35:03] Voice 3: were changing some of it

[0:35:04] Voice 7: is that all right now old

[0:35:07] Voice 3: eyes okay hopefully that's all right a little

[0:35:09] Voice 3: bigger a

[0:35:10] Voice 7: little bigger thank

[0:35:12] Voice 3: you okay

[0:35:13] Voice 7: happy to so here um this is the same as in your agenda package

[0:35:17] Voice 7: showing the proposed changes what we are um proposing to do is change the bracketed words

[0:35:23] Voice 7: just to increase clarity around what's being increased

[0:35:27] Voice 7: in the percentage, and also on a couple of them

[0:35:30] Voice 7: to indicate that there's grant funding

[0:35:31] Voice 7: contributing to those expenditures.

[0:35:33] Voice 7: We, on review, felt it might be a little bit misleading

[0:35:36] Voice 7: to show, for example, a 9% increase

[0:35:37] Voice 7: for conservancy expenses when those are already externally,

[0:35:41] Voice 7: you know, part of that increase is due to external funds

[0:35:43] Voice 7: that are coming in.

[0:35:45] Voice 7: Finally, you'll see down below,

[0:35:47] Voice 7: we deleted out the $67,000 in meeting expenses

[0:35:49] Voice 7: expenses and put it below in because it was duplicative of the $51,000 in the capital budget.

[0:35:59] Voice 7: So we moved it down there and also we reduced this or took out the species at risk program

[0:36:04] Voice 7: because of course the monies are indeed reflected in the other bullets within that list.

[0:36:11] Voice 7: So I will just continue through the survey and then we can circle back and take an individual

[0:36:15] Voice 7: comments if that's all right. But that's your expenditure section and that's the majority of

[0:36:19] Voice 7: the changes that staff are proposing. Here's a table that we included last year as well that

[0:36:24] Voice 7: demonstrates the property tax change over time. Unfortunately for clarity we also need to include

[0:36:29] Voice 7: all of the footnotes which will likely be not of interest to too many but we've got some keeners

[0:36:37] Voice 7: I'm sure. Further down we've got some additional charts to help people identify what the trends

[0:36:44] Voice 7: have been over time and we hope this will be helpful to people to identify where the trust is

[0:36:48] Voice 7: is growing and changing.

[0:36:51] Voice 7: We break out a general breakdown of where money goes

[0:36:55] Voice 7: and is allocated through the trust.

[0:36:57] Voice 7: And here's the section I mentioned earlier

[0:36:58] Voice 7: that we're recommending be removed

[0:37:00] Voice 7: because we can't produce the data in sufficient time.

[0:37:03] Voice 7: And we still don't have certainty we can produce it at all.

[0:37:06] Voice 7: So we will not be able to communicate

[0:37:07] Voice 7: in dollars per 100,000 this year.

[0:37:10] Voice 7: Here is the topic that's been discussed earlier,

[0:37:13] Voice 7: which is around the actual principles questions.

[0:37:16] Voice 7: So we can circle back to this later

[0:37:18] Voice 7: if there's some thoughts on how you'd like to refine these questions and then further down

[0:37:22] Voice 7: in the survey here we've broken it out by the three main service areas of local planning services

[0:37:27] Voice 7: where we provide a bit of an introduction to what is done within local planning services

[0:37:31] Voice 7: and then a list of projects that are being proposed for this year that are related to

[0:37:38] Voice 7: local planning services we do the same then as you will note so then there's a chart here that

[0:37:44] Voice 7: notes the highlights around what drove previous increases or decreases so that people can have

[0:37:50] Voice 7: some knowledge of what's informing the trends that they're seeing as we go down we've taken

[0:37:55] Voice 7: the same approach for regional programs explaining generally what services are provided within the

[0:38:01] Voice 7: regional program heading and then the pro the projects that are proposed for this year

[0:38:07] Voice 7: i would say some of them are um yeah so we've we've included all the things that we consider

[0:38:12] Voice 7: that are to be relevant here,

[0:38:14] Voice 7: including down to electronic document management.

[0:38:16] Voice 7: And again, the chart, and then we, as you'll note,

[0:38:18] Voice 7: we've done the same thing for conservancy.

[0:38:23] Voice 7: So, and then finally,

[0:38:24] Voice 7: you've got the Salt Spring Special Tax Levy questions,

[0:38:27] Voice 7: which are provided by the local trust committee to us

[0:38:30] Voice 7: to provide to the public.

[0:38:32] Voice 7: And finally, we ask the same demographic questions

[0:38:34] Voice 7: and communication preferences

[0:38:36] Voice 7: that we've asked in previous surveys.

[0:38:39] Voice 7: So that's your overview.

[0:38:41] Voice 7: I'll go back up to the top

[0:38:42] Voice 7: and would be happy to facilitate a conversation

[0:38:45] Voice 7: around what changes you want to see this year

[0:38:47] Voice 7: in this proposed survey.

[0:38:48] Voice 7: And I can make the changes in real time here

[0:38:50] Voice 7: and track changes to ensure

[0:38:51] Voice 7: that you all have agreement

[0:38:52] Voice 7: about that's what you want to see.

[0:38:55] Voice 18: Thank you.

[0:38:56] Voice 18: Laura, your hand is up.

[0:39:03] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Laura Boushikian, yeah.

[0:39:04] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Two years of doing this

[0:39:06] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and we still sometimes forget to mute.

[0:39:09] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So thank you, Director Prater

[0:39:11] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and everyone who's put work into this.

[0:39:14] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Glad to see it coming forward.

[0:39:15] Trustee Busheikin (probable): forward. A couple of suggestions. One is where we ask people to explain their question. I'm going

[0:39:29] Trustee Busheikin (probable): to suggest that we make that a little less directive and a little more clearly optional

[0:39:33] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and just put comments and then in brackets optional. I think the please explain really

[0:39:42] Trustee Busheikin (probable): really prompts people to write a lot. They're like, okay, I'm going to explain the whole thing.

[0:39:47] Trustee Busheikin (probable): But I think what was happening, I mean, is because we're having more and more people fill this out

[0:39:52] Trustee Busheikin (probable): every year. And we offer a lot of opportunity for people to just write their comments. It was,

[0:39:57] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I remember last year, the level of overwhelm at not just finding the time to read it, it was hours,

[0:40:04] Trustee Busheikin (probable): but being able to use that information in a targeted way. You know, we read all of it, but it,

[0:40:10] Trustee Busheikin (probable): it, you know, you can't categorize it or quantify it.

[0:40:15] Trustee Busheikin (probable): It's great to hear and to give people that opportunity,

[0:40:17] Trustee Busheikin (probable): but I certainly wouldn't want them to think they're being asked to do that.

[0:40:21] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I think we're offering the opportunity to do that because we need

[0:40:26] Trustee Busheikin (probable): information that, that

[0:40:27] Trustee Fast (probable): is,

[0:40:28] Trustee Busheikin (probable): we can agile, agilely work with.

[0:40:32] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So I think comments optional leaves it much more is less directive and

[0:40:39] Trustee Busheikin (probable): And maybe, yeah, maybe we don't even want that

[0:40:43] Trustee Busheikin (probable): with any question and just one comment space at the end.

[0:40:46] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I'm not quite sure I'm ready to suggest that

[0:40:49] Trustee Busheikin (probable): because I do think there's such a value

[0:40:50] Trustee Busheikin (probable): in asking people or giving people an opportunity.

[0:40:55] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So, and then the second thing is just,

[0:40:57] Trustee Busheikin (probable): it's a detail, but it's quite important

[0:41:00] Trustee Busheikin (probable): just for my island and it is on,

[0:41:04] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I'm sorry, I had it marked here.

[0:41:06] Trustee Busheikin (probable): It is where the projects are.

[0:41:10] Trustee Busheikin (probable): the planning projects heading

[0:41:16] Voice 7: down there within I just noted what you suggested there and we can

[0:41:20] Voice 7: circle back as a committee we could circle back

[0:41:21] Trustee Busheikin (probable): page 27 of the package page 11 of the document

[0:41:29] Voice 7: here

[0:41:30] Trustee Busheikin (probable): we are and it's the Denman Island LTA official community plan it's right in the middle

[0:41:34] Trustee Busheikin (probable): of their third bullet on the second set of bullets it just remove and short-term rentals from there

[0:41:40] Trustee Busheikin (probable): it's not a short-term rental review that's going to confuse the the heck uh leave the word review

[0:41:46] Trustee Busheikin (probable): okay yeah it's just it's i don't quite know how that happened um but um yeah thank you

[0:41:55] Trustee Busheikin (probable): but then um so going back up to the sort of uh core of this a page of page 26 and that

[0:42:02] Trustee Busheikin (probable): question number three what budget principles do you support and this really follows it on

[0:42:10] Trustee Busheikin (probable): both the presentation we heard but also a trustee stanford commented earlier about the question of

[0:42:15] Trustee Busheikin (probable): you know do you want taxes to go up or down um nobody really wants taxes and i i appreciate it's

[0:42:24] Trustee Busheikin (probable): about support and not want but i like i'd like to get more into the meat of what people want and

[0:42:34] Trustee Busheikin (probable): don't want i think that would be much more useful for us and it's not just do we or don't we increase

[0:42:39] Trustee Busheikin (probable): taxes? It's what do we do with the money we're spending? And I'm wondering if this could be

[0:42:46] Trustee Busheikin (probable): changed and made a little more in-depth and offer more specific choices for people. And what I'm

[0:42:56] Trustee Busheikin (probable): imagining is something where we actually, and we've done this before, we have ranking exercises

[0:43:05] Trustee Busheikin (probable): exercises or even a chart where we list all the main topics the main themes we plan to work on

[0:43:12] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and we generally work on and for each of those they can tick off option increase keep the same

[0:43:20] Trustee Busheikin (probable): decrease and then we could see for each what people's preferences are if they want us to

[0:43:28] Trustee Busheikin (probable): to do less work and decrease, I mean, it's not taxes,

[0:43:33] Trustee Busheikin (probable): but to decrease expenditures on OCP LUB reviews

[0:43:37] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and do more advocacy or coordinating work.

[0:43:40] Trustee Busheikin (probable): It gives us a chance to see that and or chart,

[0:43:45] Trustee Busheikin (probable): like there's two things that could be organized.

[0:43:47] Trustee Busheikin (probable): One is topics, fresh water protection, reconciliation,

[0:43:51] Trustee Busheikin (probable): local planning, proactive projects,

[0:43:53] Trustee Busheikin (probable): projects, um, uh, OCP, LUB reviews, uh, that kind of thing. But the other could be, um,

[0:44:04] Trustee Busheikin (probable): just a minute, sorry, I'm losing my train of thought. I'm looking at my notes. One could be

[0:44:07] Trustee Busheikin (probable): topics and one could be type of work, um, advocacy, uh, planning versus freshwater, uh, housing, um,

[0:44:17] Trustee Busheikin (probable): um forest protection uh sustainable communities sensitive ecosystem protection um yeah that is

[0:44:27] Trustee Busheikin (probable): my suggestion i realize it's quite a big change but i could imagine something like that that would

[0:44:31] Trustee Busheikin (probable): be a lot more useful uh for respondents and for us thank you

[0:44:36] Voice 18: laura sue ellen and then i've got

[0:44:39] Voice 18: paul brent and then peter luckham okay

[0:44:43] Trustee Fast (probable): i see claire's put a note up there and um but uh my

[0:44:47] Trustee Fast (probable): My question is simple.

[0:44:49] Trustee Fast (probable): If you go to the page that has the table on it

[0:44:52] Trustee Fast (probable): with the footnotes underneath,

[0:44:56] Trustee Fast (probable): footnote number...

[0:44:59] Trustee Fast (probable): Sorry folks, give you a...

[0:45:02] Trustee Fast (probable): There you are,

[0:45:02] Trustee Fast (probable): whoop, whoop, you just went past it.

[0:45:03] Trustee Fast (probable): There we are, footnote number one.

[0:45:05] Trustee Fast (probable): If you could insert the word Bowen Island Municipality

[0:45:09] Trustee Fast (probable): contributes to those kinds of things,

[0:45:13] Trustee Fast (probable): it says to the same extent,

[0:45:16] Trustee Fast (probable): I think you could say almost the same extent because it's not exact because we use that calculation, which is different from the rest of the local trust area.

[0:45:31] Trustee Fast (probable): And when Julia Mobs, back in April, ran a calculation based on the data from Raj Har, our CFO at the time here on Bowen Island municipality, it was a bit lower than the rate that Bowen was paying.

[0:45:52] Trustee Fast (probable): So I just wanted to suggest that qualifier. Thank you.

[0:45:56] Voice 18: Thank you very much. Paul Brent?

[0:45:58] Voice 18: Brent?

[0:46:02] Voice 19: Just a couple of things. It's just a couple of questions. I note that a number of times in

[0:46:08] Voice 19: the survey, we refer to tax increase at 4.88%, and it doesn't exclude new construction and

[0:46:16] Voice 19: development. And then we refer to existing taxpayers. So is all of that new construction

[0:46:21] Voice 19: and development brand new property development, or is some of it not construction to existing

[0:46:29] Voice 19: existing properties so when people do renovations and improvements on their property is that not

[0:46:36] Voice 19: factored into um that particular portion i knew construction and development so when we talk about

[0:46:42] Voice 19: existing taxpayers um shouldn't isn't there a little bit of of um confusion there potentially

[0:46:51] Voice 19: that we're not, yeah, we're saying it's a 4.8%

[0:46:58] Voice 19: for existing people, is it?

[0:47:02] Voice 7: So for that

[0:47:03] Voice 6: question, I'll defer to Director Moves.

[0:47:06] Voice 13: Yeah, I do understand that question.

[0:47:08] Voice 13: Trustee Brent is correct.

[0:47:10] Voice 13: Non-market factors do include things

[0:47:13] Voice 13: like renovations to existing properties.

[0:47:15] Voice 13: It also includes things like changes in land use, right?

[0:47:19] Voice 13: So an existing piece of land that has a change in land use,

[0:47:22] Voice 13: those sort of factors are also encompassed in what's considered non-market change

[0:47:26] Voice 13: we do have a bit of a habit or history of talking about non-market factors in terms of new

[0:47:33] Voice 13: construction it's the most easily understood portion of non-market change that people seem to

[0:47:39] Voice 13: to identify with but yes the language when we talk about existing taxpayers and then immediately

[0:47:44] Voice 13: after talk about new construction there is a slight nuance there maybe we should revise that

[0:47:49] Voice 13: language and if there's suggestions on how to do that to make it clear happy to receive those

[0:47:53] Voice 19: but when we talk about property tax changes excludes increase due to non-market factors that's

[0:47:58] Voice 19: and we say 4.88 percent it's i don't think it's very accurate at all i think we should use what

[0:48:05] Voice 19: what the property tax change is i mean that's that's a that's a reality that's just my my

[0:48:11] Voice 19: opinion on that and i have another question on that i guess the table we're talking about is

[0:48:17] Voice 19: on page 24 of the package and eight of the individual thing we talk about approved operating

[0:48:24] Voice 19: and projects and projects budget expenditures excludes capital and i think since we say excludes

[0:48:31] Voice 19: capital i think if we have any any significant capital expenditures that should be footnoted

[0:48:38] Voice 19: um in that and and yeah and and in in respect of that we have uh further down the piece or maybe

[0:48:49] Voice 19: we indicate in some areas that we have uh in some of the charts we attribute uh say

[0:48:57] Voice 19: uh election expenses at 141 000 that would be the chart on page 14 of the individual

[0:49:08] Voice 19: survey 30 of our package because

[0:49:10] Voice 7: I'm in a different document are you able to identify

[0:49:13] Voice 7: where in the survey like what section you're looking at I

[0:49:17] Voice 19: think it's number five uh we're

[0:49:21] Voice 19: just above number

[0:49:21] Voice 7: five page number so those would be I've

[0:49:25] Voice 19: got page numbers here so uh

[0:49:27] Voice 7: so are we

[0:49:29] Voice 7: looking at up here I can word search for elections as well maybe it's

[0:49:34] Voice 19: actually it's it's a chart it

[0:49:36] Voice 19: It says council in brackets, regional end of bracket services,

[0:49:40] Voice 19: actual spend

[0:49:41] Voice 19: by fiscal year.

[0:49:42] Voice 7: On my way down there.

[0:49:43] Voice 19: We talk about elections cost of $141,000.

[0:49:46] Voice 19: We talk about new website.

[0:49:47] Voice 19: There's no dollar amount on that.

[0:49:48] Voice 19: So there's an

[0:49:49] Voice 19: inconsistency.

[0:49:50] Voice 19: And I like the fact that we're providing that type of information.

[0:49:55] Voice 19: So we also have local land use planning services,

[0:49:58] Voice 19: actual spending by fiscal year.

[0:50:00] Voice 19: We talk about new website, significant LTC projects.

[0:50:04] Voice 19: I think we should probably even either on the chart or in a footnote below the chart, talk about those things like new staff, high legal costs, office renovation.

[0:50:15] Voice 19: So we know the office renovation was a very, very significant, the most significant capital expenditure ever at the trust.

[0:50:23] Voice 19: So I think those would be important elements to capture.

[0:50:28] Voice 19: We want to provide as much information as we can to constituents.

[0:50:40] Voice 17: Okay,

[0:50:42] Voice 7: and also, including the dog you trust you Brent did I hear you say you also wanted the dollar figures in this year.

[0:50:48] Voice 19: Yes, and

[0:50:49] Voice 7: the other shirts yeah

[0:50:50] Voice 19: I well I think I think it would be helpful and you don't might clutter the charts so it could be done just on a footnote on the bottom of the of the chart just to inform people.

[0:51:00] Voice 5: The

[0:51:01] Voice 19: the other thing that I might want to comment on is when we talk about.

[0:51:05] Voice 19: uh taxes as as what trustee bouchakin was talking about before you know the other way we could maybe

[0:51:13] Voice 19: modify that actually i don't think we should modify it because we have a trend and so we can

[0:51:19] Voice 19: interpret um what those questions mean more from trend than the actual questions themselves

[0:51:28] Voice 19: but we could also and just as for consideration um you know another thing do you believe islands

[0:51:35] Voice 19: Violence Trust delivers value for tax funds received.

[0:51:39] Voice 19: Yes, no, maybe, comment.

[0:51:43] Voice 19: So, you know, all of our, most municipalities and local governments do go out and they do ask questions.

[0:51:53] Voice 19: And, you know, lots of times there are tax increases.

[0:51:56] Voice 19: And so I think it's appropriate, really, to say, you know, do you think we're doing a good job?

[0:52:03] Voice 19: and uh you know that's one of the things we're we're looking at people gauge the kind of job

[0:52:10] Voice 19: organizations do by the value received uh from the amount of resources uh expended and i mean

[0:52:22] Voice 19: that's what we're looking for we're looking from our our residents and property owners and people

[0:52:27] Voice 19: who have an interest in the trust area are we doing a good job are we using the resources

[0:52:34] Voice 19: we derive from primarily um landowners residents property owners of the trust area are we are we

[0:52:43] Voice 19: doing a good job delivering the services that they expect that's one of the things we want to know so

[0:52:49] Voice 19: we can we can revise if we need to what we're doing thank

[0:52:54] Voice 18: you paul um at some stage i guess

[0:52:57] Voice 18: we need to think about what we're going to do with all these excellent ideas but peter luckham and

[0:53:01] Voice 18: then peterson rogers stamford patrick uh peter you're muted peter luckham you're muted yeah it

[0:53:16] Voice 18: takes

[0:53:16] Planner Mayes (probable): me a while to get there um i started off with my hand up thinking about um specifics uh

[0:53:24] Planner Mayes (probable): versus generalities and that sort of came up and indeed we in the previous surveys we often kind

[0:53:32] Planner Mayes (probable): of get general answers like yeah keep doing what you're doing or no stop doing what you're doing

[0:53:38] Planner Mayes (probable): um and i wonder where the opportunity is to ask solicit some of those specifics and does that

[0:53:46] Planner Mayes (probable): exist in that comment section and is that a word we might choose to use specifics or not and i

[0:53:53] Planner Mayes (probable): realize this is also late in the game because you want to get this survey out and of course i just

[0:53:59] Planner Mayes (probable): just said that in a previous motion that we should attempt to try and get this out earlier

[0:54:03] Planner Mayes (probable): so obviously this conversation needs to evolve and it evolves every time we look at it um

[0:54:11] Planner Mayes (probable): and then sort of following up on uh trustee brent's comments there um on that revenue section

[0:54:19] Planner Mayes (probable): of the survey compared to the expenditures section of the survey the formatting is

[0:54:27] Planner Mayes (probable): is different. And it took me a while to understand that on the revenue portion of which

[0:54:37] Planner Mayes (probable): $7.4 million property taxes, that's our property tax requisition. And it's a 6.81% increase over

[0:54:48] Planner Mayes (probable): previous years. And then where I kind of stalled was why it is the 4.88% is highlighted and 1.25%

[0:54:56] Planner Mayes (probable): is just in a normal font.

[0:54:58] Planner Mayes (probable): And whether or not that phrase,

[0:55:02] Planner Mayes (probable): tax from new construction and development,

[0:55:07] Planner Mayes (probable): shouldn't maybe be different

[0:55:09] Planner Mayes (probable): so that it's more easily understood.

[0:55:11] Planner Mayes (probable): And then just noting between the revenue one,

[0:55:14] Planner Mayes (probable): the expenditure one,

[0:55:15] Planner Mayes (probable): everything is kind of in a list without much of a breakdown.

[0:55:19] Planner Mayes (probable): And does that help

[0:55:21] Planner Mayes (probable): or somehow maybe there needs to be item number like numbers or bullets or something like that

[0:55:29] Planner Mayes (probable): if you want to break out particular revenue sections but I do see value in acknowledging

[0:55:36] Planner Mayes (probable): that and there's no total revenue actually it's each one of those items and then there's the total

[0:55:43] Planner Mayes (probable): revenue and that would be helpful as well and I apologize for all of that detail and I'm just

[0:55:52] Planner Mayes (probable): going to close with thinking to myself that it's also obvious from what we're hearing out there

[0:56:00] Planner Mayes (probable): and what we're seeing with the citizen survey even is that there are some members of the public

[0:56:06] Planner Mayes (probable): that want to engage at a deeper level.

[0:56:09] Planner Mayes (probable): And in a future process,

[0:56:12] Planner Mayes (probable): maybe we should consider a more detailed questionnaire,

[0:56:19] Planner Mayes (probable): much like what they do with the census

[0:56:21] Planner Mayes (probable): and other things that are done.

[0:56:24] Planner Mayes (probable): This is the basic one.

[0:56:25] Planner Mayes (probable): If you don't have a lot of time,

[0:56:27] Planner Mayes (probable): please fill out this one.

[0:56:29] Planner Mayes (probable): If you want to spend more time,

[0:56:30] Planner Mayes (probable): then fill out this one.

[0:56:32] Planner Mayes (probable): And maybe that would help us drill down

[0:56:34] Planner Mayes (probable): a little bit deeper in the future.

[0:56:36] Planner Mayes (probable): but i'm not suggesting it for this time off

[0:56:38] Voice 18: thank you peter tim peterson thank you chair

[0:56:45] Voice 20: um so i i understand i've heard the reasons why we don't have the rate per hundred thousand

[0:56:52] Voice 20: and um and i understand that however i think it's um i think that we really need to think about

[0:56:59] Voice 20: resourcing that portion better because uh one thing i'm really picking up is that is that

[0:57:07] Voice 20: we're not doing a good job of communicating um what taxes mean um i'm just looking at my

[0:57:16] Voice 20: tax from last year i've got this you know an overview i've got a sheet from islands trust

[0:57:23] Voice 20: that's just general information and what i really like is our regional district has broken it down

[0:57:30] Voice 20: by electoral area what we're paying what we're paying for um i think that as we talk about how

[0:57:39] Voice 20: we can do things better i think that that's the sort of area that we need to resource better so

[0:57:46] Voice 20: that we're doing a better job of breaking down um making it easy for people to look at their tax bill

[0:57:54] Voice 20: and break down what are what are what am i paying to islands trust i looked at mine i have to do

[0:58:00] Voice 20: some math to figure it out i'm paying 201.34 on my 1558.34 bill i've done the math i've figured

[0:58:11] Voice 20: it out but it took some doing i so i just want to advocate that as we think about how we can do this

[0:58:17] Voice 20: this job better that we make that information clearer and easier to access for people as as

[0:58:26] Voice 20: we go ahead in this process because I think when people look at uh uh I don't think anyone wants

[0:58:35] Voice 20: to pay more taxes but when we look at your total tax bill and it's simple and easy to break down

[0:58:40] Voice 20: down what's what um then this this discussion changes in in the public and it's and it changes

[0:58:47] Voice 20: in the way uh people are looking at what they're getting for their money through Islands Trust and

[0:58:52] Voice 20: I just want to advocate for really thinking about resourcing that part of the process and and as I

[0:58:59] Voice 20: say I understand why the rate for a hundred thousand didn't make it in here and and I'm just

[0:59:05] Voice 20: it's unfortunate and I'd like to advocate that we make that happen

[0:59:13] Voice 20: you know as every

[0:59:15] Voice 18: year if we possibly can thank you thank you Tim I think it's a very valid point

[0:59:19] Voice 18: and it would be very helpful for people to realize what a very small percentage of their overall

[0:59:23] Voice 18: property tax bill applies to the islands trust so one could easily come up with that number

[0:59:29] Voice 18: and say this means you know x percentage um for your overall property tax bill and we could put

[0:59:35] Voice 18: that out in the survey i would have thought trustee rogers chair

[0:59:40] Trustee Fast (probable): julia mobs director

[0:59:42] Voice 18: mobs i'm sorry

[0:59:43] Voice 18: hello director mobs yes julia um

[0:59:48] Voice 13: i just like the opportunity to respond to trustee peterson's

[0:59:50] Voice 13: comments um you know because because they're very very good thoughts and comments uh one of the

[0:59:56] Voice 13: challenges with the per $100,000 assessed value is, as you know,

[1:00:00] Voice 13: the islands trust we don't requisition we don't do our own tax requisition that goes through the

[1:00:03] Voice 13: provincial surveyor of taxes so there is a fair amount of collaboration that needs to happen in

[1:00:08] Voice 13: order to make some of those numbers a reality because there's various grants and things that

[1:00:13] Voice 13: are applied to our tax requisition before it's actually levied out to taxpayers as well as a fee

[1:00:18] Voice 13: that they charge to us for taking on the requisition process on our behalf so I did attempt

[1:00:24] Voice 13: even last year to get some of that information that's proving to be very difficult and I do you

[1:00:29] Voice 13: you know, if we're going to undertake that exercise, I do want it to be as accurate as

[1:00:33] Voice 13: it can be. Former directors in my position have always said, oh, it's not possible to do this.

[1:00:39] Voice 13: So I'm not one to shy away from attempting the impossible. So I am going to move that forward.

[1:00:44] Voice 13: But I just wanted the committee to know that there is involvement from external agencies. And so

[1:00:50] Voice 13: there's internal capacity constraints and also external that are, of course, outside of our

[1:00:54] Voice 13: control. One other thing, because we don't do our tax requisition in-house, we have no control over

[1:01:01] Voice 13: the format of the tax notice that goes out to Islanders. What we do have the opportunity to do

[1:01:07] Voice 13: is include a leaflet or a notice that will go alongside tax notices where we can provide some

[1:01:13] Voice 13: additional information. So we were looking at that last year. It didn't end up happening.

[1:01:20] Voice 13: We're considering the opportunity to do that again this year if we have the capacity to do so.

[1:01:26] Voice 13: And so we can incorporate some of that information in that leaflet.

[1:01:30] Voice 18: Russ Hotzenpiller.

[1:01:32] Voice 14: Yeah, thanks Mr. Chair.

[1:01:33] Voice 14: And just a consideration in terms of comparing the regional district service functions versus the Islands Trust.

[1:01:41] Voice 14: If you weren't in the Islands Trust and you were a regional district and you looked at your tax notice, you'd see planning.

[1:01:48] Voice 14: That would be the service.

[1:01:50] Voice 14: service, there wouldn't be descriptors underneath that on your tax notice that describe all of the

[1:01:56] Voice 14: planning activities associated with it. And that's one of the challenges of the structure of the

[1:02:02] Voice 14: trust itself, where we are essentially a service, a planning service. And indeed, there's advocacy

[1:02:09] Voice 14: as well in the administration to support both of those. So if you were comparing that and you

[1:02:14] Voice 14: you looked at a tax notice, it would just simply have that planning. I think what we're talking

[1:02:20] Voice 14: about is a greater description of the different planning activities underneath the planning

[1:02:28] Voice 14: service as a whole. If you're in the Comox Valley Regional Districts, indeed, that's what you would

[1:02:33] Voice 14: get. And when I came over to the trust, it was always a challenge to go, you know, what is our

[1:02:39] Voice 14: tax what is our tax discussion it's not a series of services that people discreetly are in or not

[1:02:47] Voice 14: sewer parks water all of these different individual services that a given electoral

[1:02:54] Voice 14: area is in or is not it's the island's trust and we basically do one core thing

[1:03:02] Voice 14: planning and we provide administration associated with it so there's a nuance in explaining that

[1:03:06] Voice 14: that we're always challenged to describe effectively.

[1:03:10] Voice 14: So we will continue to look at how we can do that better.

[1:03:14] Voice 18: Thank you.

[1:03:16] Voice 18: Excuse me, Dan Rogers.

[1:03:23] Voice 3: Thanks.

[1:03:25] Voice 3: A couple of things.

[1:03:28] Voice 3: I'm sorry to be responding.

[1:03:30] Voice 3: I was actually writing a note back to Trustee Brent.

[1:03:34] Voice 3: I think the point is about people not wanting to pay more taxes.

[1:03:38] Voice 3: I think the reality is if there's a specific service

[1:03:41] Voice 3: service that people can identify with they will sometimes vote in favor of that not always but

[1:03:47] Voice 3: they will agree to pay more if they can see that but if you ask them generically do you want to

[1:03:53] Voice 3: pay more sort of like being asked do you want to pay more for your air flights the answer is you

[1:03:58] Voice 3: know in the context is no uh if you if you ask them do you want to pay more for your air flights

[1:04:05] Voice 3: because they'll be safer and you'll be guaranteed that you'll be there on time you might say yeah

[1:04:12] Voice 3: I'll pay 10 percent more to make sure they're safer and I get there on time so it's all context

[1:04:17] Voice 3: um anyway uh my I guess my my only my main issue with the with the survey or my main comment about

[1:04:28] Voice 3: the survey is um question three um and uh which is the what budget principles do you support

[1:04:38] Voice 3: and i think there there's a couple of challenges i have with it and i acknowledge i've sat on this

[1:04:45] Voice 3: committee for two or three years now and it's been the same question and we perhaps sort of discussed

[1:04:50] Voice 3: it before but frankly some of the commentary we've received has sort of clarified for me

[1:04:56] Voice 3: why I always wondered about Vegas.

[1:04:58] Voice 3: There's two questions I have.

[1:05:01] Voice 3: One is very much the same

[1:05:03] Voice 3: what Trustee Boucherkin brought up,

[1:05:06] Voice 3: which is there's no context around these questions

[1:05:09] Voice 3: about increasing or decreasing taxes.

[1:05:11] Voice 3: Because if you said,

[1:05:13] Voice 3: I'd like to see a tax increase,

[1:05:15] Voice 3: would you support a tax increase

[1:05:17] Voice 3: if it went into preservation of the marine foreshore,

[1:05:20] Voice 3: people might vote much more directly in favor.

[1:05:25] Voice 3: or we'll improve the efficiency of delivery of local planning services.

[1:05:32] Voice 3: That's very challenging to do, to put into the survey.

[1:05:35] Voice 3: But the other problem, so I'm not sure that there's a way we can fix that.

[1:05:39] Voice 3: But the other problem I have is that where it says keep taxes the same to maintain staffing,

[1:05:46] Voice 3: if you maintain staffing services and programs, taxes don't stay the same.

[1:05:51] Voice 3: They have to go up because we have built-in cost increases in our current program that before we even take on any more, quote, staff or programs or projects, if we just keep things the same,

[1:06:15] Voice 3: We know that our wages for the planning of the large portion of our budget will go up because of the planning administrative costs, the contract, the staffing costs that were covered by the PSA and the collective agreement there.

[1:06:30] Voice 3: Our insurance might go up, our leases might go up, et cetera, et cetera.

[1:06:33] Voice 3: So that second question, in my view, should be sort of reversed and should read something like maintain staffing services and programs at current levels, which will result in a moderate tax increase or something like that.

[1:06:56] Voice 3: I don't know what the exact language should be, but I think that's my concern about that question because it's not accurate.

[1:07:03] Voice 3: um so because if people have been ticking off keep taxes the same because they think that that

[1:07:10] Voice 3: will keep everything status quo and 48 of them say yeah i want to do that the reality is if you

[1:07:17] Voice 3: want to keep everything the same it's going to cost two or three percent more um and so you're

[1:07:23] Voice 3: actually advocating for a tax increase and if you had that with the other ones and so you get into

[1:07:30] Voice 3: the confusion around the the budget survey so i'd i'd really i i mean i can come back and when we

[1:07:36] Voice 3: come back to dealing with all of these considerations as we go forward um and i look to

[1:07:41] Voice 3: the chair for when you'd like to see those kinds of motions i'm thinking we're getting general

[1:07:45] Voice 3: comments i'd like to see that second question in particular um change so that it makes it clear

[1:07:51] Voice 3: that that if you want to maintain status quo i.e current status staffing services and programs etc

[1:07:59] Voice 3: et cetera, et cetera, that is going to involve at least some amount of a tax increase.

[1:08:06] Voice 3: Thank you very much. Trustee Stanton.

[1:08:09] Voice 3: Chair,

[1:08:10] Voice 7: may I just ask you a question here? I'm just noting the ones I can capture as changes in the survey.

[1:08:16] Voice 7: For Trustee Rogers, were you intending to have that one question, have these two questions deleted and have that new question be, like, is this the potential edit you're suggesting?

[1:08:26] Voice 7: Yeah,

[1:08:27] Voice 3: and I wasn't I didn't think we're at the motion stage but but that would be, that's more or less what I would be suggesting is that we not deleted but but modified.

[1:08:41] Voice 3: I'll

[1:08:41] Voice 7: just include that edit for now for discussion when we go through all at the end here.

[1:08:45] Voice 18: So I've got Stanford, Patrick, and Bushekin on the list. I'd like to suggest that after

[1:08:49] Voice 18: we hear from them, we do indeed consider any motions that we feel are appropriate, if that's

[1:08:57] Voice 18: agreeable to everybody. I see Peter Luckin nodding his head. That's helpful.

[1:09:01] Voice 18: So are you through, Dan? But Kate Louise Stanford,

[1:09:12] Voice 18: calling Kate Louise Stanford. I guess the fog has

[1:09:17] Voice 9: got to you.

[1:09:17] Voice 9: yeah i think some of the uh you can't hear me now

[1:09:21] Voice 18: we can okay

[1:09:22] Voice 9: well i'll i'll write them down

[1:09:24] Voice 9: oh okay um i'm just following up on the comments by trustee peterson trustee rogers i think we are

[1:09:31] Voice 9: getting to the knot of where i i've had some concerns but to add to this um

[1:09:39] Voice 9: Um, survey, would it be worth, uh, at least putting a link to our, um, employee, um, um,

[1:09:48] Voice 9: geez, I've forgotten the name of it.

[1:09:50] Voice 9: Just the list of the job positions and employee chart.

[1:09:56] Voice 9: Um, cause there seems to be some confusion about that.

[1:09:59] Voice 9: Um, how it's all played out.

[1:10:01] Voice 9: I don't want to see it actually in the survey, but a link to it if they want it as a resource.

[1:10:06] Voice 9: resource. Or chart. Yes, that's what I meant. And then also, I'm thinking there is still a way of

[1:10:14] Voice 9: clarifying to people where we fit into their rural tax. We can do it very generally.

[1:10:22] Voice 9: For the Sunshine Coast Regional District area, we are roughly 14 to 15% of the overall rural tax.

[1:10:32] Voice 9: that hasn't changed over the last uh 10 years that i've been looking at it so even a general

[1:10:38] Voice 9: statement um um would give them better perspective of what they could look at and they can do the

[1:10:47] Voice 9: math themselves it's really simple um if i can do it then other people can do it um so i think

[1:10:54] Voice 9: prefacing that would really help clarify the overall value of what we're looking at in increases

[1:11:00] Voice 9: or decreases. That's all I have to say.

[1:11:03] Voice 18: Thank you, Kate Louise. Laura Patrick.

[1:11:06] Voice 7: Chair, could I just clarify if I've captured that comment correctly?

[1:11:09] Voice 7: Yes.

[1:11:09] Voice 7: For Trustee Stamford, I've added a comment at the top of the survey

[1:11:12] Voice 7: that you've made a general comment about adding information about

[1:11:15] Voice 7: Islands Trust Place in rural taxation. Maybe it's amounts?

[1:11:20] Voice 9: Yeah, like roughly the percentage that it fits within,

[1:11:24] Voice 9: with your overall rural tax amount.

[1:11:30] Voice 5: Okay, thank you.

[1:11:34] Voice 18: Okay, we got that Claire?

[1:11:36] Voice 12: Yes, thank you.

[1:11:37] Voice 18: Thank you very much. Laura Patrick.

[1:11:41] Voice 11: No, thank you. And I think Paul's suggestion about sort of that value, how do you feel about

[1:11:49] Voice 11: value? I did go and look at a whole bunch of surveys of other communities in Vancouver Island,

[1:11:54] Voice 11: and that's what related to sort of the comment I made earlier when we were

[1:11:59] Voice 11: voting on that resolution of the surveys. It's not a simple, are you getting value?

[1:12:03] Voice 11: you they they're very more complex surveys that get into the details of the services and and all

[1:12:09] Voice 11: all of that so i think i think it's a good survey to do and not it's it's in addition to or something

[1:12:17] Voice 11: very different um in in future years um but there's lots of good examples out there of other

[1:12:23] Voice 11: vancouver island communities and what they're doing annually um i can i'd like where laura

[1:12:31] Voice 11: we're shaking was going that there might be an additional question you know have this set three

[1:12:35] Voice 11: and then a 3a that you know would take a little bit to think of but some broad categories of

[1:12:41] Voice 11: you know climate uh do you think we need to are we doing enough on climate change more on climate

[1:12:47] Voice 11: change not uh housing you know there could be a whole series of items or preservation of

[1:12:51] Voice 11: shorelines there were some things there uh that could be kind of an interesting response of sort

[1:12:57] Voice 11: of where you know good indication of kind of where people's minds are on where they think we should be

[1:13:03] Voice 11: increasing or decreasing our activity so i i like where laura was going and yes it would take a

[1:13:10] Voice 11: little bit to make that question but i think we need to keep it as simple as possible but yet have

[1:13:15] Voice 11: you know some categories that feedback would be um rather helpful and uh you know tim's question

[1:13:24] Voice 11: was I woke up in the middle of the night last night and it was like we always think of putting

[1:13:28] Voice 11: things in terms of cups of coffee you know how many cups of coffee does this relate to this

[1:13:32] Voice 11: increase that you're facing and I was like well how many houses does our overall budget represent

[1:13:38] Voice 11: I thought and so I got up this morning looked at BC assessment and just picked a random

[1:13:44] Voice 11: neighborhood on Salt Spring well five houses as assessed value equal our 9.1 overall million

[1:13:53] Voice 11: budget on just Salt Springs. It's all these perspective things sometimes help, but I'm not

[1:13:59] Voice 11: suggesting we put that in this budget, but I don't know why I woke up in the middle of the night with

[1:14:04] Voice 11: that crazy thought, but I did. I do have some specific comments. I don't know if you want those

[1:14:12] Voice 11: right now, but right at the top, I mean, I know we always judge and it kind of comes if you read

[1:14:21] Voice 11: the whole survey you kind of start to understand the differences but you know it's um we kind of

[1:14:26] Voice 11: jump into assuming you already know who islands trust is and who trust council is but right off

[1:14:31] Voice 11: the there are some english i think that first paragraph there could be tightened up um the

[1:14:36] Voice 11: not the first sentence thank you but the all correspondence um and survey results on the

[1:14:43] Voice 11: budget are shared not is shared um and you know i don't know how tight you want to go but i you

[1:14:50] Voice 11: we could tighten that up a little bit more we either leave it the way it is it could be

[1:14:54] Voice 11: r shared with you know anyway i'll just leave it that we don't have to tighten all that up

[1:15:00] Voice 11: but it just to me that sentence could be you know we could look at that i don't know how people feel

[1:15:05] Voice 11: um so i won't get into that you've fixed some of the others that i noticed and i think that's the

[1:15:11] Voice 11: i'll leave it with that right now thank

[1:15:14] Voice 18: you laura um and uh laura boucher can um you've got your

[1:15:19] Voice 18: hand up and then i would like to move on and see where we can go except now peter luckham's got his

[1:15:23] Voice 18: hand up um so go ahead laura thanks

[1:15:27] Trustee Busheikin (probable): um uh so one is one more detail and then a general comment

[1:15:34] Trustee Busheikin (probable): um so i'm looking at it's page 29 on my package and it's page 13 of the draft survey

[1:15:39] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and this is another small correction for accuracy and i hope it can be made

[1:15:46] Trustee Busheikin (probable): at the bottom there there's that list of bullets on the fourth bullet it says model density bonus

[1:15:51] Trustee Busheikin (probable): bylaws affordable housing that project has changed and is not specifically about density

[1:15:58] Trustee Busheikin (probable): bonusing and I would love it if that could be changed to model bylaws it did start out as that

[1:16:05] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and it still says that in the strategic plan but there's been a realization on RPC that

[1:16:11] Trustee Busheikin (probable): that somewhat different approach is needed.

[1:16:14] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So I don't want to mislead people

[1:16:16] Trustee Busheikin (probable): who don't think density bonus is appropriate

[1:16:19] Trustee Busheikin (probable): for the trust area as it may not be,

[1:16:22] Trustee Busheikin (probable): can be looked at island by island.

[1:16:25] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So change that to model bylaws, affordable housing.

[1:16:30] Trustee Busheikin (probable): But just general, I'm really appreciating the conversation

[1:16:34] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and I'm learning a lot.

[1:16:36] Trustee Busheikin (probable): But, and I really, for me, a big aha moment in this discussion is the difference between

[1:16:44] Trustee Busheikin (probable): asking people about tax increases and decreases generally and linking it to something specific.

[1:16:52] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So that being said, I do want to return to this idea I had about either changing question

[1:16:58] Trustee Busheikin (probable): question three, or having an additional question that would allow some more individual ranking

[1:17:06] Trustee Busheikin (probable): or valuation of specific topics for work and types of work. And this is a question for staff,

[1:17:15] Trustee Busheikin (probable): if we were to direct you to include that, how could that be done without, you know,

[1:17:24] Trustee Busheikin (probable): slowing the process down significantly given that you know we're not going to reconvene a meeting

[1:17:29] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and hopefully I think don't even want to have to do something by RWM so yeah how could that go

[1:17:38] Trustee Busheikin (probable): forward in an efficient manner?

[1:17:42] Voice 7: So two ways we've done not I don't think with FBC but in the past

[1:17:46] Voice 7: we have done one is to do it by RWM we could you know craft a question and bring it back by RWM

[1:17:52] Voice 7: in the other circumstances sometimes it's been directed that you know with the approval you know

[1:17:56] Voice 7: the question be deleg you know the approval be delegated to the chair on something like this

[1:17:59] Voice 7: that's not to the chair or select number of members of the committee um we've managed it

[1:18:04] Voice 7: like that but i defer to see to see if he's comfortable with that answer i

[1:18:08] Voice 14: i if i may mr

[1:18:09] Voice 14: chair please yeah claire some of the questions we're getting were they not included in previous

[1:18:16] Voice 14: surveys, like the ranking around those, these specific elements, and they're not in this one,

[1:18:23] Voice 14: correct?

[1:18:24] Voice 7: We have had ranking questions in the past. Last year, we had a ranking question as

[1:18:28] Voice 7: it related to climate initiatives, for example. Right.

[1:18:32] Voice 7: I reduced the number of questions this

[1:18:35] Voice 7: year due to feedback from Trust Council last year, that it was too much.

[1:18:38] Voice 14: There was too many

[1:18:39] Voice 14: questions exactly so um you know we'll we kind of redo this every year given what uh emerging issues

[1:18:47] Voice 14: are there if um if you're happy if you can cast your minds back to the uh exactly this type of

[1:18:54] Voice 14: question that was asked last year um around climate change uh you identify a couple of the

[1:18:59] Voice 14: areas where you'd want that question and we do our level best to um add them in as they were before

[1:19:07] Voice 14: and in whatever areas you think are appropriate and um you know it we would do in a very similar

[1:19:16] Voice 14: style to last year's i don't think you'd have to sit in totality and and go through every word of

[1:19:22] Voice 14: those things which you probably don't have the time for um anyway but maybe we'd go through the

[1:19:28] Voice 14: chair um if you identified a couple of those matters and you delegated him if you wanted to

[1:19:33] Voice 14: get go back to that level of um um breaking it out which is certainly a theme that we're hearing

[1:19:43] Voice 14: i

[1:19:43] Voice 7: would just note for the committee you may remember you received some feedback last year

[1:19:46] Voice 7: that some members of the community found the ranking questions i think we had between eight

[1:19:50] Voice 7: and ten selections for them they found that complicated and a bit burdensome um we didn't

[1:19:56] Voice 7: receive a lot of feedback but we certainly did receive some that some members of the community

[1:19:59] Voice 7: found that difficult to respond to okay

[1:20:05] Voice 18: let's continue with the conversation with uh peter

[1:20:09] Voice 18: and then we'll make some decisions here thanks peter luckham okay

[1:20:15] Planner Mayes (probable): thank you uh chair um

[1:20:17] Planner Mayes (probable): sorry i actually realized my headphones because it's more comfortable back on and hopefully you

[1:20:25] Planner Mayes (probable): can hear me now yes one uh point just came up for me which was not my initial question is

[1:20:34] Planner Mayes (probable): is can we have we done in the past um uh last question that says something like is this survey

[1:20:43] Planner Mayes (probable): too long too short or just right because we're making some general assumptions about people's

[1:20:48] Planner Mayes (probable): ability to fulfill this survey this is really important and i wouldn't want to make it short

[1:20:56] Planner Mayes (probable): for the wrong reasons um so just um i'm not 100 sure whether we've done that in the past or whether

[1:21:04] Planner Mayes (probable): or even it's in this one but my um my focus for my question that i wanted to ask was often this

[1:21:11] Planner Mayes (probable): is all about where we spend our money and i've focused a little bit here on the actual islands

[1:21:17] Planner Mayes (probable): trust expenses by fiscal that has this beautiful graph that you know interestingly enough shows

[1:21:23] Planner Mayes (probable): naturally the the significant part of the monies that are spent on local uh trust committees and

[1:21:29] Planner Mayes (probable): that versus council and then uh islands trust conservancy and and then of course it has the

[1:21:35] Planner Mayes (probable): total expenses over a lot of years and you can see that in the table that is earlier that there were

[1:21:41] Planner Mayes (probable): a number of years where there was low very low increases and of course that was a function of

[1:21:48] Planner Mayes (probable): using surplus and that's um maybe more complex for people to grasp in anything but what uh what

[1:21:57] Planner Mayes (probable): What I thought would be maybe helpful because this is about increases and where do you want to spend more money or less money is the graph, the pie chart that shows it's just a snapshot of this year.

[1:22:10] Planner Mayes (probable): Trust Council, 16 percent, local planning services, 71 percent.

[1:22:16] Planner Mayes (probable): But and that is similar over the years as some variation in that theme.

[1:22:22] Planner Mayes (probable): But I sort of think it might be interesting to know what those increases have been over those years rather than a graph, a percentage, because the way the scaling is done, it doesn't necessarily indicate where it is that there are significant growth or cost or expenses being incurred that some are wanting us to do.

[1:22:52] Planner Mayes (probable): cut back on and um so it's interesting to know what particularly it is and that's sort of that

[1:22:59] Planner Mayes (probable): details question about the specifics but i don't know that you have the ability to include that in

[1:23:04] Planner Mayes (probable): here

[1:23:04] Voice 7: so if i might share i would speak to director mobs about whether she has an idea about how to

[1:23:11] Voice 7: present the data i would know we've certainly been um we're toying and we didn't get it done

[1:23:16] Voice 7: for this meeting with the notion of including um the grant revenue in this chart because of course

[1:23:21] Voice 7: some of the expenditure growth is the result of good news that you got all these grants that have

[1:23:26] Voice 7: come in in recent years but we have not achieved that for this meeting but perhaps director mods

[1:23:31] Voice 7: could speak to whether there is a way to represent growth in percentages so

[1:23:35] Planner Mayes (probable): that's brilliant if i

[1:23:37] Planner Mayes (probable): might just say that even on that graph where if you indicated that an expense um bar that was

[1:23:46] Planner Mayes (probable): grant funded it would make a difference to the appearance of the chart but anyway back to you

[1:23:54] Voice 18: julia any comments on that uh

[1:23:56] Voice 13: yeah certainly what the the plan is for reflecting um what portion

[1:24:01] Voice 13: of expenditures are paid for by grant money is simply to take each of those individual bars there

[1:24:06] Voice 13: and uh have a different color at the top of the bar to represent the portion that is grant funded

[1:24:13] Voice 13: so you know the dollars that were grant funded very easy to get it's manipulating the chart to

[1:24:19] Voice 13: actually have that portion reflected in a different color that we haven't gotten around to but that is

[1:24:22] Voice 13: the plan we do think it it's helpful and transparent as far as reflecting percentage

[1:24:28] Voice 13: changes absolutely that data is available I can generate that information how to make it sort of

[1:24:33] Voice 13: easily conveyable within a chart or a graph may be the challenge I do note that this particular

[1:24:39] Voice 13: chart that we've got on screen is looking at total spending for the

[1:24:44] Voice 13: islands trust what we do have further down in the expenditure section where we

[1:24:49] Voice 13: break the spending out by various departments we do have a little bit more

[1:24:54] Voice 13: information or space there to talk about a percent increase so that might be a

[1:24:59] Voice 13: better place to reflect it if we're able to thank

[1:25:02] Voice 18: you Julie I see all sorts of

[1:25:03] Voice 18: thumbs up and Laura I don't know if your hands meant to be up there even though I

[1:25:08] Voice 18: has specifically said that that was the end but are you are you do you need to speak

[1:25:13] Trustee Busheikin (probable): well um

[1:25:16] Trustee Busheikin (probable): i would like put a motion forward about this additional ranking style question is

[1:25:24] Voice 18: now a good

[1:25:24] Trustee Busheikin (probable): time possibly

[1:25:25] Voice 18: now but i want to ask claire um before we start asking for specific motions

[1:25:32] Voice 18: what would be most helpful for you at this point so

[1:25:36] Voice 7: what i had thought we would do is i will just

[1:25:38] Voice 7: scroll through the survey um identifying the suggested changes here are areas for discussion

[1:25:43] Voice 7: and identify if anyone dissents with something that's been recommend you know suggested by a

[1:25:47] Voice 7: committee member so that you can identify if there's a place where you'd like to have further

[1:25:51] Voice 7: discussion i think that's a

[1:25:53] Voice 18: very good idea um so if everyone's in accord with that let's let's move

[1:25:57] Voice 18: ahead and uh i'm gonna shut us down at 12 o'clock for lunch if that's okay um so press on claire

[1:26:04] Voice 18: thank you so just

[1:26:05] Voice 7: scrolling through here you've got a minor grammatical error

[1:26:08] Voice 7: no changes here uh we've had

[1:26:11] Voice 7: a general comment about um including island's trust place and rural

[1:26:16] Voice 7: taxation amounts what i was going to comment on that that might be tricky to do in this survey

[1:26:20] Voice 7: with seven regional districts because it is different in each jurisdiction it might be

[1:26:25] Voice 7: something we can consider for communication materials so i'll just note that as i scroll

[1:26:29] Voice 7: down unless there is direction from the committee to try to insert something into this preamble

[1:26:34] Voice 18: So sorry to interrupt, but this is your time, committee, to speak up. So if there's

[1:26:41] Voice 18: something comes up that you feel strongly about and you want to make a motion, this is the time

[1:26:44] Voice 18: to do it. So Swell and Fast.

[1:26:50] Trustee Fast (probable): Would it be possible, Claire, to use a range? For example, Islands Trust

[1:26:57] Trustee Fast (probable): trust tax requisition typically or ranges from whatever X percent to Y percent across the trust

[1:27:10] Trustee Fast (probable): area, excluding Bowen Island? I would defer

[1:27:14] Voice 7: to Julia Mobs. Is that something you think we could

[1:27:17] Voice 7: achieve?

[1:27:19] Voice 13: If I'm understanding the question correctly, I'd like to include the tax increase

[1:27:24] Voice 13: increase per local trust area?

[1:27:28] Trustee Fast (probable): It's more of a typical question, just to give people the scale.

[1:27:32] Trustee Fast (probable): So wording such as, in a typical year, Islands Trust tax requisition is or makes up between

[1:27:46] Trustee Fast (probable): X percent and Y percent of a rural tax bill.

[1:27:53] Voice 13: Something like that.

[1:27:54] Voice 13: I don't believe that information uh would be easy for us to obtain uh you know and it is also sort

[1:28:01] Voice 13: of based on what everyone else is requisitioning um islanders sort of other entities so um I would

[1:28:07] Voice 13: suggest that that might be a tough thing to achieve okay then I withdraw it um

[1:28:13] Voice 9: can I just

[1:28:14] Voice 9: further to that I'm just putting something into the the uh into the chat function to the effect

[1:28:20] Voice 9: fact that please look at your own tax requisition for that information because it's it's laid out

[1:28:28] Voice 9: and let them do the calculation so i'm just putting

[1:28:32] Voice 12: something in real quick or

[1:28:38] Voice 3: just a point

[1:28:39] Voice 3: of information where are you proposed where is this supposed to go in the in the survey where

[1:28:43] Voice 3: the page i'm on i don't quite see where this fits in but i may be missing it

[1:28:49] Voice 9: it's it's popped in at

[1:28:52] Voice 9: proposed 22 23 budget

[1:28:53] Voice 12: by the looks of it okay i'm sorry i'm not seeing sorry folks

[1:29:03] Voice 7: i haven't been

[1:29:04] Voice 7: tracking the chat am i waiting for a chat comment to add it to the document trustee stamford i'm

[1:29:11] Voice 7: getting

[1:29:11] Voice 9: there got

[1:29:31] Voice 12: it or

[1:29:39] Voice 9: annual percentage okay

[1:29:51] Voice 12: are there any

[1:29:51] Voice 7: concerns with a statement like this

[1:29:54] Voice 18: We've got a number of hands.

[1:29:56] Voice 18: Julia Mobs has her hand up

[1:29:58] Voice 18: and she takes priority of everybody.

[1:30:00] Voice 13: Thank you, Chair. I don't believe it's possible to get that percentage.

[1:30:05] Voice 13: Like, you know, it's we don't know what the what the bill is going to be from other entities.

[1:30:10] Voice 13: So we can't calculate what percentage the Islands Trust represents.

[1:30:15] Voice 13: Can we make it

[1:30:16] Voice 9: even more vague? Represents only percentage of the total.

[1:30:22] Voice 9: Please look at your own statement for the

[1:30:26] Voice 12: percentage.

[1:30:41] Voice 18: So what what are we waiting for?

[1:30:44] Voice 7: Okay, so I've edited the sentence as she has just suggested. It now reads,

[1:30:48] Voice 7: Islands Trust annual tax requisition in your local tax statement represents only a percentage

[1:30:54] Voice 7: of the total. Please look at your annual statement for the specific annual amount.

[1:31:01] Voice 18: Fairly insignificant.

[1:31:04] Voice 18: Okay,

[1:31:07] Voice 7: so am I hearing consent now around including that?

[1:31:09] Voice 18: Yeah.

[1:31:09] Voice 7: Okay, so I'll

[1:31:11] Voice 18: keep moving down.

[1:31:11] Voice 7: I

[1:31:12] Voice 18: don't think we need to have separate motions for these things.

[1:31:14] Voice 18: I think the

[1:31:15] Voice 18: minutes will show. Good.

[1:31:16] Voice 18: No,

[1:31:17] Voice 7: I think you at the end you can if you wish to support the survey you can say, you know, approve the survey as amended.

[1:31:22] Voice 18: Yes, thank you. That's what we will do. Okay, so

[1:31:25] Voice 7: here, moving. So if I might moving down

[1:31:27] Voice 18: I've got sorry I got Sue Ellen fast hand up, and so, sorry.

[1:31:35] Voice 18: Sorry what I

[1:31:37] Trustee Fast (probable): mean to have it up and I okay

[1:31:40] Voice 18: Louise is your, you finished good. Thank you Claire press on.

[1:31:43] Voice 7: Okay, so the next section is your revenue section here and the question, or the suggestion was that we just use the main figure of six

[1:31:50] Voice 7: point one percent increase rather than break it out this way because um it was suggested that

[1:31:55] Voice 7: well you heard that um some of this new construction development is indeed

[1:31:59] Voice 7: um with improvements to existing structures or a change in use so i'd be looking for direction as

[1:32:06] Voice 7: to what changes you would like in this section here uh

[1:32:11] Voice 18: paul brent so

[1:32:14] Voice 19: you know i i think i don't

[1:32:16] Voice 19: have a problem with the way this is uh formatted here but i have a problem with the way it is

[1:32:22] Voice 19: related further down in the in the survey so it's you know it's it's an okay uh thing to say

[1:32:29] Voice 19: basically 4.88 you know same structures you know same structures and then 1.25 tax from

[1:32:38] Voice 19: uh new construction renovation and development that's i don't have a problem with that but then

[1:32:42] Voice 19: we go down to the table which i've already lost now because i'm looking at other surveys

[1:32:48] Voice 19: days. We have that. Yes, thanks. Property tax change, 4.8%. I really think it should be 6.1

[1:32:54] Voice 19: in respect of that. And that's really what it is. So I don't know if that's reasonable. And I would

[1:33:01] Voice 19: ask the Director of Administrative Services if that's doable readily and whether it makes sense.

[1:33:09] Voice 13: So it's certainly doable. We do have those figures for historic bill years. One thing I will note is

[1:33:15] Voice 13: it's it's a shift so we've always quoted our tax increase based on the increase to just the base

[1:33:21] Voice 13: excluding the non-market factors it's not a problem to to make the change and we would then

[1:33:27] Voice 13: make the change for all historical years for comparative purposes so yeah we'll just receive

[1:33:32] Voice 13: direction from the committee on what makes the most sense if

[1:33:35] Voice 18: I may respond I think that makes

[1:33:38] Voice 18: the most sense what we've been doing it just adds another layer of complication in my view

[1:33:42] Voice 18: you another way

[1:33:46] Voice 13: to amend the chart if there was a desire to include both pieces of the information

[1:33:51] Voice 13: is to add a secondary column so we could reflect the non-market change increase as well as the

[1:33:58] Voice 13: general tax base increase and that way it would it would align with the representation further up

[1:34:03] Voice 13: where we've got them separate and

[1:34:04] Voice 18: seeing nods all around and paul brandt has got his hand up i think

[1:34:08] Voice 18: that's one

[1:34:09] Voice 19: thing i would say though is if you look at the property tax changes you know over the 10

[1:34:14] Voice 19: year period and then you look at the approved operating and projects budget expenditures

[1:34:19] Voice 19: they don't make sense numerically because we go from 6.9 million to 9.4 million which is about

[1:34:25] Voice 19: a 36 percent increase and if you put the 1.3 percent the two percent the two percent three

[1:34:30] Voice 19: point two six percent and the four point eight percent it sure as heck doesn't equal 36 percent

[1:34:35] Voice 19: so anybody that has some math skills is going to go and i guess what we're hoping that people don't

[1:34:41] Voice 19: have math skills they're going to go there's something weird here i know i'm a nerd i do have

[1:34:47] Voice 19: some math skills that that counters the fact i don't have people skills but hey what can i say

[1:34:52] Voice 19: but

[1:34:53] Voice 18: that i think julia's proposal deals with that which is an additional column paul do you not

[1:34:58] Voice 18: sure a little

[1:35:00] Voice 19: more complex but

[1:35:01] Voice 18: laura and then uh then laura bouchek and laura patrick

[1:35:07] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Thanks. I didn't understand if the next column would, what will be in the next column. I'd like

[1:35:15] Trustee Busheikin (probable): to hear that, but I do have a comment at first, which is I would recommend that we do not change

[1:35:20] Trustee Busheikin (probable): this chart at this point. I think the consistency year to year, excuse me, is important. And

[1:35:29] Trustee Busheikin (probable): there's a lot, I mean, we've changed how we deal with surplus. I've certainly done a lot of work

[1:35:35] Trustee Busheikin (probable): on changing how we budget and show our budget

[1:35:39] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and make decisions so that we're using our surplus

[1:35:42] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and creating surplus more responsibly.

[1:35:44] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I think we've worked hard

[1:35:46] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and I think we've made some inroads there.

[1:35:48] Trustee Busheikin (probable): And I think keeping the way we measure

[1:35:52] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and show the impacts of that,

[1:35:56] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I think we need to keep that consistent

[1:35:58] Trustee Busheikin (probable): so that that helps us and everyone understand

[1:36:01] Trustee Busheikin (probable): what's going on with that.

[1:36:02] Trustee Busheikin (probable): And I just, yeah, I do think changing

[1:36:04] Trustee Busheikin (probable): And changing the way we represent numbers year to year is challenging because even we need to have it explained and spend time understanding it.

[1:36:17] Trustee Busheikin (probable): And I think for a person doing this survey who's been saying they want it to be short and simple, I think we should just do it like we've done it in the past.

[1:36:29] Voice 12: So if I might jump in.

[1:36:32] Voice 7: I'm happy to make whatever changes the committee wishes.

[1:36:34] Voice 7: I would just remind the committee and all of these decisions that for some people you're going to be scrolling this on a phone

[1:36:40] Voice 7: And so we want to keep information as simple as we can and as accessible as we can

[1:36:45] Voice 7: But as trustee Brent notes also be accurate. So I'm looking for direction here as to how you'd like to change this table

[1:36:55] Voice 18: We got Laura Patrick and Peter luckens hands up. Are you going to respond to that?

[1:37:00] Voice 11: Yeah, I mean one part of this could be solved by providing a link. There is that the more detailed

[1:37:07] Voice 11: detailed table that's already on our website that's linked to the budget stuff that shows the

[1:37:12] Voice 11: tax you know it's far more information and that's where you know if we're going to make this all

[1:37:17] Voice 11: 100 accurate it's going to get big um and you have that table and it's on our website um and it has

[1:37:23] Voice 11: all the previous years and it has the taxable amount because that's where you know the math

[1:37:26] Voice 11: does get confusing when you have to subtract out the grants and do all this it is it is confusing

[1:37:31] Voice 11: so perhaps having that link somewhere either in the footnotes or something if people want to have

[1:37:36] Voice 11: that more detailed table that's already existing

[1:37:41] Voice 18: personally i think that's a good idea about peter

[1:37:44] Voice 18: luckham um

[1:37:46] Planner Mayes (probable): that is a good idea uh to some extent but um i know that sometimes in something that

[1:37:53] Planner Mayes (probable): i'm doing my patients doesn't necessarily include clicking a link and loading a pdf and then

[1:37:58] Planner Mayes (probable): looking at that pdf particularly on a phone but i wouldn't personally advise that

[1:38:05] Planner Mayes (probable): um i would just like to remark that i think that this is a a a yearly iterative process where we

[1:38:18] Planner Mayes (probable): uh learn and i think that these documents need to evolve rather than being the same

[1:38:25] Planner Mayes (probable): and potentially being wrong or confusing or misleading the same i think paul brent's

[1:38:32] Planner Mayes (probable): suggestion is that it doesn't add up when you look at that chart i think doesn't help

[1:38:38] Planner Mayes (probable): provide answers or inform um folks to be able to make um informed uh uh decision well they're not

[1:38:49] Planner Mayes (probable): making decisions but recommendations with respect to the budget so and i did if i'm not mistaken

[1:38:54] Planner Mayes (probable): here that julia said that if we added a column to this table to provide greater clarity

[1:39:01] Planner Mayes (probable): that she would also do some of the old tables as well

[1:39:07] Planner Mayes (probable): because it's just a formula, I guess.

[1:39:11] Planner Mayes (probable): And so the data would look the same.

[1:39:13] Planner Mayes (probable): And personally, I always look at this fresh every time,

[1:39:17] Planner Mayes (probable): every year and look at what it looks like today.

[1:39:21] Planner Mayes (probable): I don't necessarily refer back to a bunch of documents

[1:39:25] Planner Mayes (probable): in the past.

[1:39:26] Planner Mayes (probable): So I would like to consider that as we're learning

[1:39:31] Planner Mayes (probable): and we're hearing from the public and we're trying to do better communications and provide better

[1:39:35] Planner Mayes (probable): understanding for our communities that if it seems like there's a way to present the information

[1:39:41] Planner Mayes (probable): in a more informative way that we should consider it so i'm in favor of adding whatever that column

[1:39:48] Planner Mayes (probable): is in order to provide that next level of clarity so that people can see it at a glance

[1:39:56] Planner Mayes (probable): and move on to whatever the next question is on the survey.

[1:40:00] Voice 14: Mr. Chair?

[1:40:01] Voice 14: No, please.

[1:40:03] Voice 14: I don't think this chart will ever describe what you're seeking.

[1:40:08] Voice 14: And the reason is, I think it is numerically correct,

[1:40:11] Voice 14: with the addition of the non-market change.

[1:40:16] Voice 14: That's the only piece that's missing, and Julia can correct my math.

[1:40:20] Voice 14: The difference is reflected in the actual expenditures

[1:40:23] Voice 14: expenditures and the taxation amounts. And as those have accumulated, there's the, which you

[1:40:30] Voice 14: can see between the difference between the two charts, three and four, you add those numbers up

[1:40:34] Voice 14: and that's the difference when you end up with the tax rates. Those are the tax rates. And why you

[1:40:42] Voice 14: see a difference between 6.8 and 9.4 is the difference between the actual expenditures and

[1:40:47] Voice 14: operating and but uh and the actual um operating budget process it's hard to describe all that in

[1:40:54] Voice 14: this one chart um we know that's the case and as we described before we're we're trying to manage

[1:41:01] Voice 14: in a more discreet manner and we've had made some inroads on the allocation of surplus process

[1:41:07] Voice 14: i think we either have to include substantial narrative to explain that

[1:41:15] Voice 14: um leave it the way it is or potentially add in the one challenge that's non-market change

[1:41:20] Voice 14: but even so a citizen's going to add all that up and unless they go and start

[1:41:24] Voice 14: putting um doing some subtraction and add and adding on the last two columns they're not going

[1:41:30] Voice 14: to get to a um awakening moment thank

[1:41:36] Voice 18: you russ you'll never get it all in unfortunately but i

[1:41:39] Voice 18: I would support the additional column.

[1:41:41] Voice 18: Peter Luckham, your hand's up,

[1:41:43] Voice 18: and Sue Ellen Fass has put her flesh and blood hand up.

[1:41:48] Trustee Fast (probable): Thank you.

[1:41:48] Trustee Fast (probable): I just wanted to speak in support of Laura's idea

[1:41:52] Trustee Fast (probable): of putting a link to this as the approved budget history,

[1:41:56] Trustee Fast (probable): which includes a bunch of footnotes.

[1:41:58] Trustee Fast (probable): So basically, this is the extra detail.

[1:42:01] Trustee Fast (probable): If people want it, they can get it.

[1:42:03] Trustee Fast (probable): And I approve of keeping things simple.

[1:42:05] Trustee Fast (probable): Even this chart is going to be hard to see on a phone.

[1:42:08] Trustee Fast (probable): and i note that under the second column percent property tax change it does say excludes increase

[1:42:15] Trustee Fast (probable): due to non-market factors so um in the light of the time we've got in this meeting and

[1:42:22] Trustee Fast (probable): for continuity and looking back at these changes and how we've communicated them

[1:42:27] Trustee Fast (probable): uh i think we should keep the chart the same and add a link to approved budget history or some

[1:42:33] Trustee Fast (probable): other um page that has more i i don't see what the point of people looking at non-market factors is

[1:42:41] Trustee Fast (probable): when it's something we none of us can do anything about thank you thank

[1:42:45] Voice 18: you sue ellen and we've got

[1:42:46] Voice 18: julia mobs and then uh we've really got to bring

[1:42:49] Voice 18: this discussion to a close uh julia uh thanks mr

[1:42:54] Voice 13: jerry i just wanted to comment uh a little bit as well on comparing the the change in our

[1:43:01] Voice 13: expenditures to the change in property taxes so this table has two different things in it it has

[1:43:06] Voice 13: uh property taxes which is a revenue item and then it looks at expenditures and getting those two

[1:43:12] Voice 13: things to line up in this particular chart um will never work unless we include all our other revenue

[1:43:17] Voice 13: sources you know so we have significant draws from surplus in some years that would offset some of

[1:43:23] Voice 13: the increases in expenditures that we see in this chart uh we've got others you know application fee

[1:43:28] Voice 13: revenue, investment income revenue, all those other revenue sources also help to offset some

[1:43:32] Voice 13: of the increases in the expenditures. So I don't know that without adding a considerable amount of

[1:43:39] Voice 13: more information into this single chart, would we ever really get to a very comparable place

[1:43:43] Voice 13: to show the growth and expenditures marrying up with the growth in revenue.

[1:43:47] Voice 13: And that is because property taxes are just one source of revenues.

[1:43:52] Voice 13: We could, if there was a desire to include more of that information, we could potentially have

[1:43:58] Voice 13: have two different charts, one with revenue sources, one with expenditures. But that might

[1:44:04] Voice 13: get a little bit messy as well. But I just wanted to note that, that that's the reason they don't

[1:44:08] Voice 13: line up is because we have other revenue sources outside of taxes.

[1:44:11] Voice 18: Thank you, Sue Ellen and Peter

[1:44:13] Voice 18: Luckham. And then somebody needs to tell us what we're going to do. Withdrawn.

[1:44:19] Voice 18: Okay. Peter Luckham.

[1:44:22] Voice 18: Yeah,

[1:44:23] Planner Mayes (probable): I apologize, but I would support, as Julia has just indicated, an other revenue column that

[1:44:33] Planner Mayes (probable): just needs to be a number so that it actually, and correct me if I'm wrong, Paul, so that it

[1:44:40] Planner Mayes (probable): actually adds up because that's the part that's missing and it just needs to be, my mind needs

[1:44:47] Planner Mayes (probable): to be acknowledged in some way but i'll leave it to you um

[1:44:51] Voice 18: julia what would be um helpful at this

[1:44:55] Voice 18: point would you want a specific motion we're talking about another revenue column and we're

[1:44:59] Voice 18: talking about the the um other property tax um column can

[1:45:04] Voice 19: i speak here for a second i think

[1:45:06] Voice 18: i

[1:45:06] Voice 19: think maybe try to try to um solve this we put a link in but also at the end of the chart or at

[1:45:15] Voice 19: the bottom of the chart a little footnote that says some of these figures uh don't necessarily

[1:45:21] Voice 19: correspond mathematically there's better wording for it that i'm sure julia can come up with

[1:45:26] Voice 19: and please refer to the link and what we might even just refer to the fact that there's non-market

[1:45:31] Voice 19: uh uh changes in terms of our property tax and there are also revenues from grants and uh and

[1:45:40] Voice 19: and investments and and other things that make it difficult so at least it encourages people to go

[1:45:46] Voice 19: to the link good

[1:45:46] Voice 18: thank you paul i think that's extremely helpful and personally that's how i

[1:45:50] Voice 18: would be inclined do we need a motion to that event or or effect or can we leave it at that

[1:45:56] Voice 7: so if i could what i think i've heard is consent around adding the link to the budget history

[1:46:01] Voice 7: document and adding the footnote as trustee brent just suggested is that correct

[1:46:05] Voice 5: correct

[1:46:06] Voice 19: Correct.

[1:46:06] Voice 7: And not adding this new column.

[1:46:09] Voice 19: Precisely.

[1:46:09] Voice 19: And most importantly, Julia, are you okay with that?

[1:46:14] Voice 19: Does it make sense to you?

[1:46:15] Voice 19: Because if it doesn't make sense,

[1:46:16] Voice 19: then we don't want to do it.

[1:46:18] Voice 13: It makes sense to me to do it,

[1:46:20] Voice 13: provided there's a trust at this committee

[1:46:22] Voice 13: that I will word things appropriately,

[1:46:25] Voice 13: because there won't be a chance to review wording, obviously.

[1:46:27] Voice 18: We absolutely have your confidence.

[1:46:29] Voice 18: If you want to run it by Paul and me,

[1:46:32] Voice 18: that's just fine also.

[1:46:34] Voice 13: Will do.

[1:46:34] Voice 13: so

[1:46:35] Voice 18: i'll

[1:46:39] Voice 6: just confirm there's no dissent around adding a note around capital expenditures to

[1:46:42] Voice 6: the footnote

[1:46:42] Voice 7: as well correct great

[1:46:44] Voice 7: okay scrolling down we've got the almost

[1:46:48] Voice 6: we everyone comfortable

[1:46:49] Voice 6: with that small edit to the footnote hearing no dissent i'll keep going um so here we had a

[1:46:56] Voice 6: conversation around this chart uh

[1:46:57] Voice 7: that we could add indicate growth in percentage or show the

[1:47:00] Voice 7: grant funds i think i heard from director mobs that she thinks i'll maybe have her state whether

[1:47:06] Voice 7: she thinks she can get the new grant fund chart built by friday morning um to edit to show in each

[1:47:11] Voice 7: column how grant funds are influencing the changes we

[1:47:16] Voice 13: have the dollars it's just updating the charts

[1:47:18] Voice 13: i think

[1:47:19] Voice 6: we can make it happen okay

[1:47:20] Voice 18: thank you very much i

[1:47:21] Voice 6: hear yes on the grant funds um what i

[1:47:23] Voice 6: haven't heard already clarity on is indicating growth in percentages i think we heard that we

[1:47:27] Voice 6: we might want to do that in the charts below.

[1:47:29] Voice 6: And so I would take this off as comment.

[1:47:33] Voice 18: Correct.

[1:47:33] Voice 7: Okay, great.

[1:47:35] Voice 7: Moving down, I think I've got agreement from the committee

[1:47:38] Voice 7: that we just can't achieve that this year.

[1:47:39] Voice 7: So that commentary is deleted.

[1:47:41] Voice 7: Now, here's the main conversations that we've had

[1:47:45] Voice 7: around this principles question.

[1:47:48] Voice 7: So we've had a number of comments

[1:47:50] Voice 7: around there could be a new question

[1:47:51] Voice 7: or indeed an entirely different survey

[1:47:53] Voice 7: around value for money for the trust.

[1:47:55] Voice 7: I would suggest what I have understood

[1:47:57] Voice 7: from other communications people in local government

[1:48:00] Voice 7: is it is often best practice to separate value

[1:48:02] Voice 7: for service surveys from the budget survey itself.

[1:48:05] Voice 7: It can become too much in one survey

[1:48:07] Voice 7: for the public to comment on.

[1:48:09] Voice 7: So I have had advice around that,

[1:48:11] Voice 7: but the trust has not in recent years

[1:48:13] Voice 7: talked about a value for service survey.

[1:48:16] Voice 7: And we've also had commentary here

[1:48:19] Voice 7: around the potential ranking question

[1:48:20] Voice 7: where you would come up with a list of topics

[1:48:24] Voice 7: that your themes that you felt the community

[1:48:26] Voice 7: community might wish to comment on either in addition to this question or as a replacement

[1:48:31] Voice 7: to this question so I think staff would be looking for more direction here around what you wish to do

[1:48:35] Voice 7: and you also all note have some suggested edits so

[1:48:39] Voice 18: let's go through those one one by one Claire

[1:48:42] Voice 18: what which was the first one so

[1:48:44] Voice 7: the first would be perhaps the suggestion around this value for

[1:48:47] Voice 7: service or um what have we got up here yeah the value for service concept is that something you

[1:48:52] Voice 7: wish to try and achieve in this survey feedback

[1:48:56] Voice 18: please okay

[1:48:58] Voice 7: i'm seeing wide nodding okay so let's

[1:49:00] Voice 7: move on then just in the interest of time laura has

[1:49:03] Voice 18: a thumbs down it's

[1:49:05] Trustee Busheikin (probable): not people shaking their

[1:49:06] Trustee Busheikin (probable): head so could we just clarify that like we shaking our heads not nodding

[1:49:12] Voice 18: okay okay

[1:49:13] Trustee Busheikin (probable): so is that going

[1:49:16] Voice 7: forward or not at this time from what i see it's a no we're not trying to we will not try to achieve

[1:49:22] Voice 7: that in this survey at this time okay so the next question would be around trustee rogers suggestion

[1:49:29] Voice 7: for amending this question is and i guess you've got an and or decision around do you wish to amend

[1:49:37] Voice 7: it as suggested and or would you like to include a ranking question about themes around the services

[1:49:43] Voice 7: the trust offers which is a potentially quite big list so you would have to have discussion around

[1:49:48] Voice 7: which themes in particular you'd like us to mention i see chair grove i see trustee rogers

[1:49:58] Voice 7: has his hand

[1:49:59] Voice 18: i see thank you very much

[1:50:00] Voice 3: trustee rogers thanks uh and you know i've been thinking

[1:50:03] Voice 3: about this a lot and i i think there's been a lot of really valid points made about trying to

[1:50:09] Voice 3: understand people's values and where they want to see their tax dollars spent etc and i i think

[1:50:16] Voice 3: that's a lot about where where the uh commentary comes in and in fact in many ways i find the

[1:50:23] Voice 3: commentary in in many cases to be as as important or more revealing than the survey itself uh when

[1:50:31] Voice 3: i read it for address council anyway my proposal is i have two proposals one is to change the first

[1:50:38] Voice 3: four words of the second bullet to read um increase taxes sufficient to and then carries

[1:50:50] Voice 3: on to maintain staffing services and programs at current levels so basically change it from

[1:50:58] Voice 3: keep taxes the same to maintain but rather it should read I think it should read increased

[1:51:03] Voice 3: tasks task is sufficient to maintain and then that would be my first proposal the second proposal

[1:51:11] Voice 3: is in the third bullet is it would be to add words afterwards just have a period and then say

[1:51:21] Voice 3: say, please explain your answer. Sorry, or please explain below where you would like

[1:51:30] Voice 3: to see change. Because I think the third bullet is asking people to make choices. And I think

[1:51:40] Voice 3: we should, where, because increasing in some areas, but decreasing in others, but what

[1:51:47] Voice 3: areas I mean it's it's right now the question doesn't provide me with any information so

[1:51:52] Voice 3: those are the two changes I'd like to see to to uh and I'm not sure that makes it perfect but I think

[1:51:58] Voice 3: it would make it more of a more informative for me okay

[1:52:03] Voice 7: thank you um if

[1:52:04] Voice 3: I might yes can

[1:52:06] Voice 7: I ask for

[1:52:06] Voice 7: clarity on the second change I'm having empathy for our minute takers right now because I'm unable

[1:52:10] Voice 7: to type and listen at the same time could you walk me through the edits you're suggesting in

[1:52:15] Voice 7: your second suggestion sure

[1:52:16] Voice 3: and i can do this one at a time if people want to comment on my first

[1:52:19] Voice 3: suggestion my second suggestion was about the third bullet and adding a phrase at the end that

[1:52:26] Voice 3: just simply says uh please exchange explain what changes uh you propose because you see this it

[1:52:34] Voice 3: says keep taxes same but decrease spending in some areas while increasing spending in other areas

[1:52:39] Voice 3: is and so you're asking people to suggest changes but what are those changes because at this point

[1:52:47] Voice 3: if it's just a it's just a they just check it off i have no idea what it is they would like to see

[1:52:53] Voice 3: uh changed so

[1:52:56] Voice 18: ellen are you commenting on dan's comments yeah

[1:52:58] Trustee Fast (probable): i have a question for dan dan do

[1:53:00] Trustee Fast (probable): do you prefer a bullet two or bullet three that Claire just put in there?

[1:53:08] Trustee Fast (probable): Two and three look the same to me. And no,

[1:53:13] Voice 3: no, no. It's, it's,

[1:53:15] Voice 3: it's not the, it's not the top one. It's the next one down.

[1:53:20] Voice 3: Could

[1:53:21] Trustee Fast (probable): you read out the one you prefer? Yeah.

[1:53:23] Voice 3: Keep increased taxes sufficient to maintain staffing services and programs at

[1:53:28] Voice 3: current levels. The other one was an earlier one I provided it,

[1:53:31] Voice 3: But I think it's that I think it's that one there.

[1:53:34] Voice 3: Thank you. Makes

[1:53:36] Voice 3: sense. And in the ranking, you start with increased taxes to add new increased taxes sufficient to maintain status quo effectively.

[1:53:43] Voice 3: And then the next one is keep taxes the same, but decrease spending in some areas while increasing and others explain your answer or something like that.

[1:53:52] Voice 3: and then you go on to the next one and at least that provides at least for me from my looking at

[1:53:58] Voice 3: this some some more some better data but it may not be enough i

[1:54:03] Voice 18: don't know that's my thoughts

[1:54:04] Voice 18: i'm i support that uh thumbs up or thumbs down everybody uh we don't need to vote so we've got

[1:54:11] Voice 18: um friend does paul doesn't like it paul doesn't like it um but

[1:54:18] Voice 19: here's i'd like to speak here's

[1:54:19] Voice 19: Here's why I don't

[1:54:19] Voice 18: like it that we have,

[1:54:21] Voice 19: and maybe I'm wrong here.

[1:54:22] Voice 19: So we have, it looks like a number of selections of selection number one is increased taxes

[1:54:27] Voice 19: to add new program services.

[1:54:29] Voice 19: The next one is increased taxes sufficient to maintain staffing services and program

[1:54:34] Voice 19: keep taxes the same.

[1:54:35] Voice 19: And then there's only one that says decrease taxes so there seems to be an imbalance there.

[1:54:42] Voice 19: That if you were just going to do your numerical example like we've seen that the citizen survey

[1:54:48] Voice 19: survey did um you could then did you then have more opportunity for people to say increase taxes

[1:54:55] Voice 19: so it it just seems a little bit uh a little bit weird to me i mean you either increase taxes or

[1:55:02] Voice 19: you or you don't well

[1:55:03] Voice 3: they frankly what what uh what we got back from the citizen survey is they

[1:55:08] Voice 3: grouped the last three because they read all three of them as being keep a freeze on taxes and there

[1:55:15] Voice 3: there was only one that was increased so it's sort of the inverse of that

[1:55:18] Voice 19: exactly but i

[1:55:19] Voice 3: think

[1:55:21] Voice 3: it's more accurate um you can't keep staff and services the same without having some tax increase

[1:55:29] Voice 3: so

[1:55:33] Voice 12: or some other source of revenue yeah

[1:55:35] Voice 18: julia mobs uh

[1:55:38] Voice 13: so i think what i'm hearing is that you

[1:55:40] Voice 13: you know uh citizens may decide that they they choose to increase taxes and change the

[1:55:47] Voice 13: distribution of where those taxes are spent it's possible they'll want to decrease taxes and also

[1:55:52] Voice 13: change the distribution of where things are spent so that's what i'm i'm hearing in this commentary

[1:55:57] Voice 13: if that's helpful it

[1:56:00] Voice 18: is so do we need one further question then and uh russ hotsonville has got his

[1:56:07] Voice 18: hand up this

[1:56:11] Voice 14: will be brief because this will be unpopular i think it's maintaining service levels

[1:56:19] Voice 14: and you know the first question increased taxes decreased taxes i i think it the second question

[1:56:28] Voice 14: would be maintain the same service levels and whether or not you need to pull out cost of

[1:56:34] Voice 14: increases which are uniform across society um or not we haven't before um you know that that that's

[1:56:45] Voice 14: a reasonable public policy question and it looks like you're entering into it the other the other

[1:56:50] Voice 14: notion is the notion of we're equating staffing services and programs as equals and they're not.

[1:57:01] Voice 14: Staffing should be removed from that list if the principle exists at the trust that services and

[1:57:08] Voice 14: program programming drive staffing. If you decrease services you can't maintain staffing

[1:57:17] Voice 14: staffing, right? Because we would have extra staff or programming. Conversely, we can't say,

[1:57:26] Voice 14: let's get rid of staffing, but let's keep our programming and services. So it's almost a devil's

[1:57:32] Voice 14: bargain, the second question, the way it's laid out. And I probably could have provided some of

[1:57:36] Voice 14: this analysis a bit earlier. I didn't really see it the way it's being explained here.

[1:57:41] Voice 14: But anyway, I offer those thoughts to just further complicate the matter. And of course,

[1:57:45] Voice 14: uh um we'll follow the direction of the committee as they as they work these through you got uh

[1:57:53] Voice 18: rogers and bushaken um go for it dan he's finished laura bushaken

[1:58:01] Voice 18: i

[1:58:03] Trustee Busheikin (probable): think we're running into trouble with this question because we are trying to simplify

[1:58:09] Trustee Busheikin (probable): a complex question and we're asking people about taxes but this is a budget survey and it's about

[1:58:16] Trustee Busheikin (probable): about how we spend our money

[1:58:19] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and how much spending we want to do.

[1:58:21] Trustee Busheikin (probable): And then following up from what CAO Potsempoda says,

[1:58:25] Trustee Busheikin (probable): we have to fund what we're going to do

[1:58:27] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and that will influence our taxes.

[1:58:29] Trustee Busheikin (probable): But I think that this would be clearer

[1:58:33] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and more accurate if we did not ask about taxes.

[1:58:39] Trustee Busheikin (probable): The question, it says three,

[1:58:40] Trustee Busheikin (probable): what budget principles do you support?

[1:58:42] Trustee Busheikin (probable): It doesn't say what taxation principles.

[1:58:44] Trustee Busheikin (probable): And we just said, add new program services or improve existing program services, maintain services and programs at current levels, et cetera, et cetera.

[1:58:57] Trustee Busheikin (probable): And took the whole question of time out of it.

[1:58:59] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Everyone knows that if we're going to increase, that means more taxes.

[1:59:07] Trustee Busheikin (probable): And that's implied.

[1:59:09] Trustee Busheikin (probable): but then it because it gets it starts to get very sort of weird like if we just maintaining

[1:59:18] Trustee Busheikin (probable): is increasing taxes but then the next option is keep taxes the same but decrease in some areas

[1:59:26] Trustee Busheikin (probable): increase in other areas so that's actually not maintaining current service level so it's quite

[1:59:32] Trustee Busheikin (probable): quite confusing. And, you know, and if we want, we can have a little asterisk saying, you know,

[1:59:41] Trustee Busheikin (probable): that taxes will need to increase to cover and increase and program levels, but people know that.

[1:59:50] Voice 18: Yeah, yeah. I like this idea where it's going. We don't need to talk about taxes,

[1:59:57] Voice 18: we just talk about services. Same more or less.

[2:00:01] Voice 18: And

[2:00:02] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I just want to add that I really support leaving staffing out of it because people

[2:00:06] Trustee Busheikin (probable): will say reduce staffing, but then they'll say, you know,

[2:00:11] Trustee Busheikin (probable): increase responsiveness of

[2:00:13] Trustee Busheikin (probable): offices or move all your staff to the islands, which is going to drive costs up or et cetera.

[2:00:19] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So it's just, yeah.

[2:00:21] Voice 18: I like the sound of that.

[2:00:23] Voice 18: Any other comments?

[2:00:24] Voice 18: It would be nice to move on.

[2:00:27] Voice 7: I'm just doing this without track changes for clarity is this what the committee is now

[2:00:34] Voice 7: discussing as the revised questions or the revised principles you wish people to comment on

[2:00:41] Voice 7: that

[2:00:41] Trustee Busheikin (probable): was my suggestion I don't see

[2:00:45] Trustee Fast (probable): the difference between two and three oh yeah two

[2:00:48] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and three needs

[2:00:48] Trustee Busheikin (probable): an addition of um what was in the last question I don't have it in front of me no it's kind of

[2:00:57] Trustee Busheikin (probable): switching it out so some will get more support some will get less

[2:01:01] Voice 7: okay so um maintain at existing

[2:01:04] Voice 7: levels um so maintain existing programs and services we could say with some areas decreasing

[2:01:13] Voice 7: and other areas increasing yeah that's not true

[2:01:17] Trustee Busheikin (probable): ross

[2:01:24] Voice 18: is this basically what you were thinking

[2:01:26] Voice 18: uh

[2:01:28] Voice 14: it's my suggestion for clarity and you know embedded at the bottom of this is do you want

[2:01:33] Voice 14: your taxes you know you can you can always have a tax question i mean that's a that's it but the

[2:01:39] Voice 14: way it was we've been working on it it's confusing of the principles and the actual outcome so i

[2:01:46] Voice 14: think this is an improvement and and provides clarity but i'm not walking the streets like

[2:01:51] Voice 14: you guys are um

[2:01:54] Voice 18: i must say i think it's an improvement and

[2:01:58] Voice 7: do we have agreement now on

[2:01:59] Voice 7: this second question being included like this.

[2:02:15] Voice 18: Terrific. All right.

[2:02:16] Voice 7: Good.

[2:02:17] Voice 18: Claire, how many more pages do we have of this? It's now just after 12,

[2:02:22] Voice 18: and we can stop now. We

[2:02:23] Voice 18: can finish this section of the program if we would like to.

[2:02:28] Voice 7: Okay. So what you still have on the table here as it relates here is the suggestion of a

[2:02:31] Voice 7: ranking question. And

[2:02:33] Voice 7: then further down the survey, we have some suggestions around adding

[2:02:37] Voice 7: a little bit more detailed to the charts. We have a discussion about how many comment

[2:02:44] Voice 7: opportunities do you wish. So at the end of the day, how much reading do you want to do

[2:02:48] Voice 7: in your Trust Council package? There is the opportunity to remove the comments after each

[2:02:54] Voice 7: section on each different service area and simply have one comment opportunity at the bottom of the

[2:02:58] Voice 7: survey. You can stop

[2:03:00] Voice 18: this. So we've got quite a lot on our plate still. So should we break now

[2:03:03] Voice 18: now and come back in an appropriate time. Sue Ellen's nodding and Tim's nodding and

[2:03:08] Voice 18: I'm nodding. Claire, thank you.

[2:03:10] Voice 6: Thank you. Can I confirm you're all seeing the survey?

[2:03:14] Voice 18: Yeah.

[2:03:15] Voice 18: Okay,

[2:03:15] Voice 6: terrific. All right. So here is where we left off and we hadn't yet concluded

[2:03:20] Voice 6: a conversation around a ranking question. And I understand over lunch, Trustee Bishaykin

[2:03:25] Voice 6: may have an idea to share.

[2:03:32] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I think I've already said the reasons why I think a ranking or similar question would be helpful, and it has just a lot to do with how we can process the information that comes in.

[2:03:52] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I think that anecdotal comments are great, but when you get 300 of them and everyone's using different techniques,

[2:04:00] Trustee Busheikin (probable): terms and different categories, we can read them all, but it's very hard to actually know what the

[2:04:10] Trustee Busheikin (probable): upshot of all that is. So let me just see if I can put this, I don't know if the chart will

[2:04:18] Trustee Busheikin (probable): go in the chat, because I did try, like just very, very, very quickly.

[2:04:27] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I'm trying to put it in a Word document for you that I could bring across.

[2:04:30] Trustee Busheikin (probable): okay i did i think i sent it oh look oh there's something okay something will go in the chat

[2:04:38] Trustee Busheikin (probable): hopefully and this i think would need a little finessing but um at least it gives the people

[2:04:47] Trustee Busheikin (probable): an idea i mean it's a big chart but i still think it's better than just randomly people commenting

[2:04:53] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and it it follows up from that question number three as we've rewritten it and um it's like for

[2:05:00] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I think for everyone, whether you want more taxes, less taxes, or a different distribution,

[2:05:06] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I would like to know what kind of distribution are taxes or expenditures.

[2:05:11] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So function, topic, do less, keep the same, do more.

[2:05:16] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I try to cover off what we generally do, as well as some key topics we work on.

[2:05:23] Trustee Busheikin (probable): And at the bottom, I gave three options for other.

[2:05:27] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and that does involve allow people to do the individual approach if they have something

[2:05:33] Trustee Busheikin (probable): because it is very hard we could work we could spend all afternoon finessing

[2:05:45] Voice 12: that's all i'm done i guess we can if anyone has any comments what does the word i'm

[2:06:01] Trustee Busheikin (probable): not i'm i don't

[2:06:02] Trustee Busheikin (probable): think i'm facilitating this conversation i just put this out there but so i'm assuming you'll be

[2:06:07] Trustee Busheikin (probable): picking the hands and i what

[2:06:09] Voice 18: do we

[2:06:10] Voice 18: want to do with this so

[2:06:13] Voice 7: i'd be seeking comment from the

[2:06:14] Voice 7: committee you've got i think i just counted 14 different potential options for people to rank

[2:06:22] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and it is i didn't set it up as a ranking where people would move things up and down

[2:06:27] Trustee Busheikin (probable): because i think that is very hard um it is just do you want us to do less keep the same or do more

[2:06:35] Voice 18: i've got rogers and luckham and patrick go rogers so

[2:06:40] Voice 3: um first of all i think there needs to be

[2:06:44] Voice 3: another column which is do not know um as so just i think we do get some feedback from people that

[2:06:54] Voice 3: say don't do this function um but the only question i have is what do you mean by conservation

[2:07:03] Voice 3: because that's a fairly broad term i understood all the other um stuff but what what it's

[2:07:14] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I can answer that because I really struggled with that on my 10 minutes that I had to do this.

[2:07:20] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I mean, I did everything. I thought, well, I've totally ignored the Islands Trust Fund in that

[2:07:24] Trustee Busheikin (probable): whole list. Not the

[2:07:28] Voice 3: Islands Trust Fund. Oh

[2:07:30] Voice 3: my

[2:07:32] Trustee Busheikin (probable): goodness, I'm stuck in the past. The Islands

[2:07:35] Trustee Busheikin (probable): just conservancy and um and maybe we could just this would be about the islands trust

[2:07:42] Trustee Busheikin (probable): planning and uh and not the conservancy and that would be the easiest but i felt like gosh i mean

[2:07:48] Trustee Busheikin (probable): that i know if i was filling this out i would want to say what i think about that um so i don't know

[2:07:55] Trustee Busheikin (probable): yeah like it could be um islands trust conservancy could be instead of conservation

[2:08:04] Trustee Busheikin (probable): conservation um just an idea because i know

[2:08:09] Trustee Busheikin (probable): everything they do and

[2:08:12] Voice 12: actually i like it better

[2:08:13] Voice 12: because that's more specific good question hello yeah i'm frozen no no

[2:08:33] Voice 3: it's peter leckham i think

[2:08:35] Voice 17: next peter leckham uh your next stop okay

[2:08:42] Voice 5: um

[2:08:43] Planner Mayes (probable): i actually um originally put my hand up because i

[2:08:47] Planner Mayes (probable): I wanted to speak to ostensibly what Dan was addressing about having that opportunity for some comment about where you're going to spend money.

[2:08:59] Planner Mayes (probable): And this kind of somewhat answers that question.

[2:09:02] Planner Mayes (probable): But what I was thinking was something simpler and actually asking that question that Dan formulated and then pointing the participant in the survey to the explanation in the regional programs on page 29, I think it is, of our package.

[2:09:26] Planner Mayes (probable): package and then also above it's the land local planning services that's right at the beginning

[2:09:32] Planner Mayes (probable): of the survey and it's there's two uh paragraphs that tell us what the land use planning activities

[2:09:38] Planner Mayes (probable): include and what regional uh wide programs include and ask the participant to make those comments

[2:09:47] Planner Mayes (probable): uh in context of those things this is sort of a much more refined approach to that

[2:09:53] Planner Mayes (probable): But one of the things I've noted over the years is we often get accused of formulating questions that are the answers that we want, as opposed to providing the freedom of opportunity for individuals to say what they want.

[2:10:10] Planner Mayes (probable): And that's obviously a fine line to tread to get meaningful information on what it is that we're doing.

[2:10:19] Planner Mayes (probable): So I just wanted to share that.

[2:10:22] Planner Mayes (probable): I'm not opposed to this approach

[2:10:23] Planner Mayes (probable): to trust you for shaking this belt forward.

[2:10:30] Voice 18: Laura Patrick.

[2:10:33] Voice 12: I

[2:10:34] Voice 11: have a couple of specific,

[2:10:35] Voice 11: I think for like OCP, LUB reviews,

[2:10:38] Voice 11: that's a word that means something to us,

[2:10:40] Voice 11: but maybe reviews slash updates.

[2:10:43] Voice 11: I think people might equate better to the word update.

[2:10:46] Voice 11: Ongoing planning is, I think that's sort of,

[2:10:50] Voice 11: I think it is just the application processing.

[2:10:53] Voice 11: processing and i would just say what you have there application processing and

[2:10:58] Voice 11: you know responding to inquiries or what i think that would be nice and clean

[2:11:05] Voice 11: um coordination and collaboration um that's a you know i'm trying to put myself in a you know

[2:11:15] Voice 11: don't know what the islands trust does thing um one what would i say is missing would be

[2:11:21] Voice 11: communication maybe communication and education or communication um but i kind of put communication

[2:11:29] Voice 11: with

[2:11:30] Trustee Busheikin (probable): public engagement and community

[2:11:33] Voice 11: ah that's where it is public engagement

[2:11:35] Trustee Busheikin (probable): could be taken out because it's so interwoven other than the secretarial secretariat program

[2:11:41] Trustee Busheikin (probable): which isn't a huge amount it's interwoven in everything else so it'd be really hard to kind

[2:11:47] Trustee Busheikin (probable): of budget around more or less of that yeah

[2:11:50] Voice 11: no i see

[2:11:51] Trustee Busheikin (probable): well i would happily take that out

[2:11:53] Voice 11: which one

[2:11:54] Voice 11: oh coordination and collaboration

[2:11:56] Trustee Busheikin (probable): collaboration if everyone is okay with it

[2:11:59] Voice 7: perhaps do you want to combine it with advocacy because much of the time that's what advocacy

[2:12:03] Voice 7: consists of sure is there agreement from the committee around that or any dissent i guess

[2:12:14] Voice 7: yeah

[2:12:14] Voice 11: i think it's all fine everything is hard you know i'm just trying to think of

[2:12:19] Voice 11: put myself in the don't know the islands trust shoes and it's always harder um mapping i've

[2:12:26] Voice 11: put mapping and data just because again you know the two tend to go together um under since we

[2:12:35] Voice 11: called it oh you have climate crises mitigation climate crises adaptation again i mean hopefully

[2:12:41] Voice 11: people know the difference but i think instead of addressing housing needs we do have we did

[2:12:45] Voice 11: just declare a housing equity and workforce shortage so i think it would that would probably

[2:12:50] Voice 11: be just um it's broader but i think it would represent instead of addressing housing needs

[2:12:58] Voice 11: just housing equity and workforce shortage you know because we didn't have to say we're

[2:13:05] Voice 11: we don't say addressing fresh water protection or anything like that um and maybe now you have

[2:13:12] Voice 11: of scientific studies and data collection.

[2:13:15] Voice 11: So

[2:13:16] Voice 7: I would suggest, I think you want to aim for around seven

[2:13:19] Voice 7: any more than that is tricky for people to write.

[2:13:22] Trustee Fast (probable): I can give

[2:13:23] Voice 11: mapping and data, then do we need,

[2:13:26] Voice 11: I don't know, one of the other is probably sufficient

[2:13:29] Voice 11: and I'll stop talking.

[2:13:39] Voice 12: I

[2:13:39] Trustee Busheikin (probable): mean, a climate crisis, climate action could,

[2:13:44] Trustee Busheikin (probable): those could be folded together.

[2:13:46] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I mean, to me, they're quite different

[2:13:47] Trustee Busheikin (probable): friend, the mitigation annotation, but it's too detailed. And we're finessing this. We still don't

[2:13:55] Trustee Busheikin (probable): know if there's overall support. We've heard from a few people, but we'll see.

[2:14:00] Voice 7: The other thing I

[2:14:01] Voice 7: will say, we're just assessing whether this presentation is technically possible in Survey

[2:14:05] Voice 7: Monkey. It may be that

[2:14:07] Voice 7: it has to be presented as a ranking question, but I'll try and get you

[2:14:10] Voice 7: an answer on that. But we're not sure that I just, we would need to double check that this can be

[2:14:15] Voice 7: technically achieved in this way i

[2:14:19] Trustee Busheikin (probable): think that could have used survey monkey i think if not this

[2:14:22] Trustee Busheikin (probable): you could do for each a one to five ranking rather than because i think that thing of trying to say

[2:14:28] Trustee Busheikin (probable): which of these is the most and least important is really hard for people um but yeah i trust you to

[2:14:34] Trustee Busheikin (probable): do your best if we go ahead with this i've

[2:14:37] Voice 18: got sue ellen fast and peter luckham thank

[2:14:40] Trustee Fast (probable): you chair i'm

[2:14:41] Trustee Fast (probable): I'm interested in the Highlands Trust Conservancy part down there, because I think it should say, if we were going to use this, nature reserves and conservation covenants, stewardship, lots of good words.

[2:14:57] Trustee Fast (probable): Nature reserves, that's what people, and I would note that back in the draft budget, page 12 of 29, is where regional programs are.

[2:15:09] Trustee Fast (probable): and then it's followed by a question.

[2:15:12] Trustee Fast (probable): Would you like to see funding

[2:15:14] Trustee Fast (probable): for regional programs and services,

[2:15:15] Trustee Fast (probable): which is on this chart, everything above Conservancy,

[2:15:19] Trustee Fast (probable): increase, decrease, stay the same,

[2:15:21] Trustee Fast (probable): or I don't have an opinion.

[2:15:22] Trustee Fast (probable): So we've already got that question in the survey.

[2:15:25] Trustee Fast (probable): Same with the Conservancy,

[2:15:27] Trustee Fast (probable): which is on page 15 of the draft, page 31 of the package.

[2:15:32] Trustee Fast (probable): It describes the Islands Trust Conservancy

[2:15:36] Trustee Fast (probable): and then asks with a graph,

[2:15:39] Trustee Fast (probable): Would you like to see funding for the Allen's Trust Conservancy increase, decrease, stay the same, or I don't have an opinion?

[2:15:44] Trustee Fast (probable): So it seems to me that this big question here is duplicating those two in the survey, which are five and six.

[2:15:55] Trustee Fast (probable): So I'm wondering whether we should have this in there at all, especially since we're kind of off the cuff making these categories.

[2:16:02] Trustee Fast (probable): I could take it easily up to 20.

[2:16:05] Trustee Fast (probable): I would sooner take it back to those two that are described, each have a graph, and then

[2:16:13] Trustee Fast (probable): each have a question on pages 14, 15, 16 of the survey.

[2:16:21] Trustee Fast (probable): So I don't think we need this.

[2:16:23] Trustee Fast (probable): That's my input, although I appreciate the effort.

[2:16:25] Trustee Fast (probable): Thank you.

[2:16:28] Voice 18: Peter Luckham.

[2:16:30] Planner Mayes (probable): um sorry i don't have an additional remark at this time so

[2:16:38] Voice 18: the question is do we want to include this

[2:16:40] Voice 18: chart in the survey is that right that

[2:16:43] Voice 7: is the question um and uh as a staff recommendation

[2:16:47] Voice 7: is you go no more than seven one option maybe to limit it to land use planning related questions

[2:16:51] Voice 7: as you've already got a question around regional services and conservancy they're slightly more

[2:16:55] Voice 7: specific that would be one option but yes do you want to add this additional question

[2:17:02] Voice 18: So let's, let's

[2:17:03] Trustee Busheikin (probable): just speak as a person and put this forward. I would like to see if there's general interest and then maybe give it a few more minutes. And as I like the last suggestion and I do realize it's, this is very last minute and it could be that this isn't going to fit but could be considered for a future year but I truly know that it would help me as a trustee to interpret the previous question in a much more

[2:17:31] Trustee Busheikin (probable): useful way to make more detailed budget decisions

[2:17:35] Voice 18: okay let's let's do a straw vote with uh thumbs

[2:17:38] Voice 18: up do we want to include this uh schedule it may we may still have some changes to make to it but

[2:17:44] Voice 18: do we want to include this kind of schedule in the survey yes or no up or down okay

[2:17:53] Voice 5: i

[2:17:54] Voice 18: see a general

[2:17:55] Voice 18: lack of enthusiasm i have to say so i'm not sure that it's worth the powder and shot i

[2:18:05] Voice 11: saw a lot

[2:18:06] Voice 11: a thumbs up okay

[2:18:07] Voice 18: let's do it again who wants to do

[2:18:09] Trustee Busheikin (probable): it with electronic hands because then we can

[2:18:12] Trustee Busheikin (probable): okay

[2:18:13] Voice 18: good who wants who wants the um it in the survey hands up

[2:18:18] Voice 5: yeah

[2:18:23] Voice 18: okay that's i i'm going along with the crowd okay it's okay it's it's in thank you

[2:18:30] Trustee Busheikin (probable): okay um and then i would said i'd like claire's suggestion just remove conservancy here um

[2:18:39] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and that it will focus on um everything else the category known as everything else um and now how

[2:18:53] Trustee Busheikin (probable): many do we have one two three four five six seven eight nine wait eleven of them still

[2:18:59] Trustee Busheikin (probable): wait one two three four five six seven eight nine ten um well i mean we could take out shoreline and

[2:19:13] Trustee Busheikin (probable): marine protection because that's a sensitive ecosystem i don't want to take out any others

[2:19:20] Voice 7: i do recommend we did have feedback when we had okay a series that people really did find it

[2:19:25] Voice 7: confusing and tricky to rank more than say seven yeah

[2:19:30] Trustee Busheikin (probable): well that's why i really don't want it to be

[2:19:32] Trustee Busheikin (probable): ranking though that's

[2:19:33] Trustee Busheikin (probable): what i'm trying i'm hoping that's

[2:19:34] Voice 7: right so we'll take your direction and

[2:19:36] Voice 7: we'll try and present it in the best way possible there is the chance it may have to be some level

[2:19:40] Voice 7: of a ranking question but we could have each of these presented as you say on a scale um around

[2:19:45] Voice 7: the level of support for each of these functions well

[2:19:48] Trustee Busheikin (probable): can i suggest that we unless there's other

[2:19:50] Trustee Busheikin (probable): specific changes people want to do that we leave it in staff's hands and they can check with our

[2:19:58] Trustee Busheikin (probable): chair and i'm happy to be involved in looking at it again i really don't have a

[2:20:04] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I mean, I feel quite neutral about the content.

[2:20:08] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I just want to get the clarity as to someone using this.

[2:20:11] Voice 18: I think that's a good suggestion.

[2:20:13] Voice 18: Sue, did you have something to add?

[2:20:15] Trustee Fast (probable): Yes, Chair, thank you.

[2:20:17] Trustee Fast (probable): I'm fine with this, except I would like it to be in the title

[2:20:20] Trustee Fast (probable): or up at the top that this is local land use planning.

[2:20:29] Trustee Fast (probable): So labeled so that it's not confused with,

[2:20:32] Trustee Fast (probable): so the people understand there's still other stuff

[2:20:35] Trustee Fast (probable): like the conservancy and regional services.

[2:20:38] Voice 18: Right. I think that's a good idea.

[2:20:41] Voice 18: Peter Luckham, you have your hand up,

[2:20:43] Voice 18: but you've disappeared off the screen.

[2:20:50] Voice 18: Laura Patrick.

[2:20:51] Voice 11: I did have another, I don't want,

[2:20:53] Voice 11: I don't think we should tie this,

[2:20:55] Voice 11: filling out this chart to if you chose maintain

[2:20:58] Voice 11: or maximize current levels of services.

[2:21:01] Voice 11: I think it should be not related

[2:21:03] Voice 11: to the questions from above.

[2:21:04] Voice 18: I agree. I agree.

[2:21:06] Voice 11: What I would propose related but not, you have to check one to do this table.

[2:21:11] Voice 18: Yeah.

[2:21:13] Voice 7: If I might share what I would suggest is, if you're centering this to land use planning we put it in the land use planning section.

[2:21:18] Voice 18: Good.

[2:21:19] Voice 18: The

[2:21:19] Voice 7: chart and description of services look

[2:21:22] Voice 18: we're going to leave you to the details up to you, but I think you've got the general idea so let's press on.

[2:21:27] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Okay, thank you.

[2:21:29] Trustee Busheikin (probable): We'll have a question then, because, which I think is an important question.

[2:21:35] Trustee Busheikin (probable): okay

[2:21:35] Voice 18: laura and then we've got trust through ellen like

[2:21:39] Trustee Busheikin (probable): if it's just land use planning that's a whole

[2:21:41] Trustee Busheikin (probable): other thing because then we're going to be taking out public engagement potentially although it

[2:21:47] Trustee Busheikin (probable): overlaps uh advocacy coordination collaboration mapping and data are regional services

[2:21:54] Trustee Busheikin (probable): freshwater protections being done on a regional level and includes you

[2:21:58] Trustee Busheikin (probable): know all of that so i

[2:21:59] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I wouldn't call it land use planning.

[2:22:01] Trustee Busheikin (probable): If we want, we can have an asterisk and a note saying

[2:22:05] Trustee Busheikin (probable): question about island stress conservancy

[2:22:07] Trustee Busheikin (probable): is addressed on page one or in question, da, da, da.

[2:22:10] Trustee Busheikin (probable): But it's kind of everything but conservancy

[2:22:13] Trustee Busheikin (probable): as far as I can tell here.

[2:22:15] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I mean, we're not asking them about administrative services

[2:22:18] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and that kind of thing, but that, yeah.

[2:22:22] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So I'm...

[2:22:25] Voice 18: Sounds like Claire is nodding.

[2:22:26] Voice 18: She's got the message.

[2:22:29] Voice 18: Sue Ellen Fast.

[2:22:30] Voice 18: yeah

[2:22:30] Trustee Fast (probable): just pointing out that on page we've already got a question like this only not broken down so

[2:22:36] Trustee Fast (probable): much on page 12 or 28 um would you like to see funding for local land use planning services

[2:22:42] Trustee Fast (probable): increase decrease stay the same or i don't have an opinion so there's going to be some overlap

[2:22:46] Trustee Fast (probable): and um i'm not sure i like the way the questions were broken down with the graph above them and

[2:22:56] Trustee Fast (probable): description above them and um so that's what's there uh now and i am uh it it just seems to me

[2:23:05] Trustee Fast (probable): to be a few categories and i'm going are these going to be the targets for cutting uh as opposed

[2:23:11] Trustee Fast (probable): to all the other good things that are also uh work that the trust does so i'm just cautious

[2:23:20] Voice 12: cautious. I'm looking for direction from the committee for this.

[2:23:31] Voice 18: What do we want to do, folks?

[2:23:36] Trustee Fast (probable): Personally, I'd like to leave the survey the way it is and keep this question for the

[2:23:43] Trustee Fast (probable): next year, because I think there's value in the idea, but right now we'd have to rework

[2:23:52] Trustee Fast (probable): so much of the survey. I don't want staff to have to do that.

[2:23:56] Voice 18: Well, that sounds good. On the other

[2:23:58] Voice 18: hand it means the last hour or so has been a bit of a waste of time laura patrick and then sue ellen

[2:24:04] Voice 18: fast i

[2:24:05] Voice 11: support it will never be perfect i think do the best we can and you've got add other so

[2:24:10] Voice 11: you've covered sort of people's impression of how they respond to that question and i'll add the

[2:24:15] Voice 11: areas that they're concerned about and i think that it will give us good information good

[2:24:19] Voice 18: i i

[2:24:20] Voice 18: would agree with that can we press on please good thank you

[2:24:24] Voice 7: all right thank you we will do our best

[2:24:27] Voice 7: to achieve what you're looking for.

[2:24:29] Voice 18: Thanks, Claire.

[2:24:30] Voice 7: All right, so going back up to where we left off,

[2:24:33] Voice 7: just to make sure we don't lose anything.

[2:24:34] Voice 7: Okay, so we've considered the ranking question.

[2:24:37] Voice 7: Moving down through your comments.

[2:24:40] Voice 7: We've heard the need for a little bit more detail

[2:24:43] Voice 7: in the comment bubbles with some dollar figures,

[2:24:45] Voice 7: so we'll do our best to achieve that.

[2:24:47] Voice 7: So the other question now is,

[2:24:49] Voice 7: do you want comments on each of the three main questions

[2:24:52] Voice 7: around the service areas

[2:24:53] Voice 7: areas or simply one comment opportunity at the bottom.

[2:24:58] Voice 7: You've now added an additional free form question here.

[2:25:04] Voice 7: So again, this just comes down to how much

[2:25:06] Voice 7: commentary would you like to see in your agenda package and how many

[2:25:09] Voice 7: opportunities do you wish to provide the public to to offer a free form comment?

[2:25:15] Voice 18: Free form comment takes a lot more staff time, doesn't it, when the answers come in?

[2:25:20] Voice 7: It does. We have to redact it all.

[2:25:22] Voice 7: So certainly it does certainly require more time.

[2:25:25] Voice 18: Laura Patrick.

[2:25:26] Voice 11: Under question three, I didn't think that Trustee Rogers was actually suggesting we add a whole separate question.

[2:25:33] Voice 11: I thought he just said where we said increase or decrease in other areas, just put in parentheses, indicate below your suggestions so that there would only be one choice there, not two for public input.

[2:25:47] Voice 11: And then I like sort of reducing as many as you can

[2:25:51] Voice 11: of the comment so that there's one big comment at the end.

[2:25:56] Voice 11: Or even this

[2:25:57] Voice 11: one could be considered.

[2:25:59] Voice 3: I agree, that was not my intent

[2:26:01] Voice 3: to add a separate comment area.

[2:26:05] Voice 7: So

[2:26:05] Voice 12: something like this is what you're looking for?

[2:26:13] Voice 7: Is that, is this here what,

[2:26:15] Voice 7: does that achieve what you're after?

[2:26:17] Voice 7: Just to add this in parentheses after the selection?

[2:26:24] Voice 3: That's all I was after was.

[2:26:28] Voice 7: Apologize for the misunderstanding.

[2:26:29] Voice 7: understanding. Okay.

[2:26:31] Voice 3: I'm very misunderstandable.

[2:26:34] Voice 7: Okay. So we've now got that cleared up with

[2:26:36] Voice 7: consent to the committee. I'll move back. There's agreement there. Good. Okay. So still looking for

[2:26:41] Voice 7: direction around whether you wish to have comments on each of the three service areas under the

[2:26:46] Voice 7: increase, decrease, or stay the same questions.

[2:26:55] Voice 18: What do we want guys and gals? Laura Boushakian.

[2:27:02] Trustee Busheikin (probable): going to i could i'm pretty um on the fence for this but i think if we switch the comments

[2:27:10] Trustee Busheikin (probable): optional i think that hopefully we'll really filter it to just the people who have something

[2:27:17] Trustee Busheikin (probable): they've thought out that's pressing and um uh keep it to a manageable amount i mean i wouldn't

[2:27:25] Trustee Busheikin (probable): um be averse to turning it into just one or two um maybe one for that question three comment and

[2:27:33] Trustee Busheikin (probable): then one comment at the end oh

[2:27:44] Voice 3: sorry uh dan rogers all right just be clear i think the survey has

[2:27:48] Voice 3: gone by we've we've had the comments after each question haven't we

[2:27:53] Voice 7: in the past that's what you've

[2:27:54] Voice 7: done but

[2:27:55] Voice 3: we did so sorry and here's here's the difficulty um it's a bit of a mixed bag some

[2:28:01] Voice 3: Some people just choose certain areas they want to comment on, but some people make the same

[2:28:08] Voice 3: comments over and over again. And therefore, it gets very repetitive because they'll do it

[2:28:14] Voice 3: in each of the sections, which is understandable. So it's a bit of a mixed bag, but some folks will

[2:28:21] Voice 3: go, oh, what I really want to comment on is land use planning, but nothing else. So I don't want

[2:28:28] Voice 3: to cut off opportunities for people to comment if they just want to and i think there might be a

[2:28:33] Voice 3: uh even though i know it's it's challenging um the only option i could see is that below each box is

[2:28:44] Voice 3: um is it just it just says please explain your answer in section whatever it is where you have

[2:28:51] Voice 3: the here's your chance for for comments if you get my drift if at the each event every section

[2:28:58] Voice 3: you could say uh please explain your answer in section nine and then you go down a section not

[2:29:06] Voice 3: picking the number i don't know if that's the right number and then go down to section nine

[2:29:10] Voice 3: and say this is your opportunity to comment on any of your answers above uh and then you'd only

[2:29:16] Voice 3: have one big place to comment i mean that's the only way i could see to do that other than what

[2:29:21] Voice 3: you're doing um i don't know what you think of that generally

[2:29:27] Voice 7: you would just ask the questions

[2:29:29] Voice 7: so people would just click their way through the questions and then it would just they would just

[2:29:31] Voice 7: naturally arrive at an opportunity to provide free form comment when they got there in the interest

[2:29:37] Voice 7: of keeping this you know as easy to navigate as possible with the fewer words as possible

[2:29:41] Voice 7: is my goal so i would recommend not providing that narrative in each question but simply just

[2:29:46] Voice 7: just let them naturally find that place on the survey.

[2:29:48] Voice 3: Are you also asking, therefore recommending

[2:29:51] Voice 3: that we take the box about explaining your answer

[2:29:54] Voice 3: out in each section too?

[2:29:55] Voice 7: I really think that's your, I would just,

[2:29:57] Voice 7: what I heard earlier in the meeting is you'd like.

[2:30:00] Voice 7: move please explain your answer to comments optional here so my question is do you want

[2:30:05] Voice 7: that in each of the three questions i think last year we heard that you had the agenda felt very

[2:30:10] Voice 7: big you had in that agenda you both had this survey and the um engagement results for the

[2:30:15] Voice 7: policy statement as well in one agenda which might have influenced some of that feedback

[2:30:19] Voice 7: but um really this is um your decision to make as to how much you'd like to be reading and whether

[2:30:25] Voice 7: you'd like to provide multiple opportunities to comment on each topic area or have people comment

[2:30:29] Voice 7: generally the

[2:30:32] Voice 18: shorter and the quicker it takes to to complete the better yeah so dan we've lost

[2:30:42] Voice 18: your voice comment generally i agree i agree trust me chair grove if

[2:30:48] Voice 7: no dissent then we will be

[2:30:49] Voice 7: taking out these three comment opportunities and we'll provide an opportunity at the end of the

[2:30:54] Voice 7: survey good

[2:30:55] Voice 18: plan perfect let's move let's move on all

[2:30:58] Voice 7: right so i think that again we've got

[2:31:04] Voice 7: some general direction there around detail and i think you're there folks um so the final question

[2:31:10] Voice 7: so this is i think here down here we would add an additional you know please explain any of your

[2:31:15] Voice 7: answers above something like that is what we would add thank

[2:31:20] Voice 18: you okay

[2:31:21] Voice 7: so

[2:31:22] Voice 18: what happens next claire

[2:31:24] Voice 7: so we will now go away and make your changes and put them in SurveyMonkey and we're going to test

[2:31:28] Voice 7: the survey and then on Friday we're going to roll out all the a news release we'll update the website

[2:31:34] Voice 7: language we're going to put a new banner on the website home page that points to the budget web

[2:31:38] Voice 7: page and we'll kick off all the promotion through social media the subscriber notice and through a

[2:31:46] Voice 7: news release and then we're going to encourage you know we'll send an email to all of you

[2:31:48] Voice 7: encouraging you to help with the promotion as well um

[2:31:52] Voice 18: i'm not sure that i'm keen about this

[2:31:54] Voice 18: but i'm going to ask anyway should this uh should your your amended draft be sent out to this

[2:32:00] Voice 18: committee again for for final comments i mean i'm loathe to do that in a way i

[2:32:07] Voice 7: guess i would

[2:32:08] Voice 7: look to the committee does

[2:32:10] Voice 18: anybody want to see it again hooray thank you so only trustee peterson's

[2:32:15] Voice 18: dying to see it again. Tim, what would you like to do? No,

[2:32:18] Voice 18: sir. No,

[2:32:19] Voice 20: sir. You had mentioned earlier

[2:32:21] Voice 20: running it by you and trustee Brent, Vice Chair Brent, I believe, and I think that's sufficient.

[2:32:27] Voice 18: Good. Thank you. Okay.

[2:32:31] Voice 18: Unbelievable. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you. Unfortunately,

[2:32:36] Voice 18: we've still got a long way to go, so we can't all run home now, except we are at home,

[2:32:40] Voice 18: so that's the end of that so we're now at 6.2 and um julia i think you get back into the harness at

[2:32:49] Voice 18: this point and pages 37 uh except my computer's gone to sleep anyway over to you julia all right

[2:33:02] Voice 13: thank you so yes indeed agenda item 6.2 and it does begin on page 37 if you'd like to follow

[2:33:08] Voice 13: along with the briefing uh so this briefing is uh to inform fpc of the changes that have been

[2:33:13] Voice 13: made to the draft budget since the last review happened. There's not too many changes to the

[2:33:18] Voice 13: current version of the draft budget versus what was reviewed at Trust Council in December, so it

[2:33:23] Voice 13: should be a fairly simple and streamlined review today. The largest changes relate to two resolutions

[2:33:28] Voice 13: that were passed by Trust Council, which is to add back the Hornby Island OCP review project,

[2:33:34] Voice 13: that's for $15,000, as well as to add back the Climate Indicators project for $25,000.

[2:33:39] Voice 13: So both of those projects have been added back into the project list in the budget.

[2:33:43] Voice 13: That, of course, increases our budgeted expenditures by the same amount.

[2:33:48] Voice 13: The other changes in the budget are largely a result of updating newly available data from BC Assessment, as opposed to the addition or removal of specific projects or items.

[2:33:59] Voice 13: So, firstly, we have received newly available information regarding non-market change factors within the property value of the trust area.

[2:34:08] Voice 13: So what we see for local trust areas is an increase in non-market change from 0.7% to 1.28%.

[2:34:19] Voice 13: And so what that means is there's an expectation that a larger portion of trust taxes will be collected on new construction and development and changes in land use.

[2:34:29] Voice 13: We see the same trend for Bowen Island Municipality.

[2:34:32] Voice 13: The former version of the budget had their non-market change at 1.2%.

[2:34:36] Voice 13: It's now reflected at 1.95%.

[2:34:38] Voice 13: So again, the same impact.

[2:34:40] Voice 13: We expect a larger portion of the Bowen Island Municipal Levy to be generated from new construction and development and changes in land use.

[2:34:48] Voice 13: We have also updated our budget documents to reflect the latest property values.

[2:34:53] Voice 13: I'm sure everyone's seen a lot about property values in the news recently.

[2:34:58] Voice 13: So the way that property values within the trust impact our budget is mainly in the area of the Bowen Island Municipal Tax Levy calculation.

[2:35:05] Voice 13: population. And so what we see in the former version of the budget was a 17.23% portion of

[2:35:13] Voice 13: property value that Bowen Island held. And that has been changed. Oh, sorry, I've got that

[2:35:19] Voice 13: backwards. The former budget showed Bowen holding about 18.33% of the property value within the

[2:35:25] Voice 13: trust. That's now been reflected at 17.23%. And so what that tells us is Bowen Island is holding

[2:35:32] Voice 13: a lowered percentage of property value within the trust, and therefore that has an impact on the

[2:35:37] Voice 13: Bowen Island Municipal Levy. And so we've seen a reduction in the Bowen Island Municipal Levy over

[2:35:42] Voice 13: the previous budget draft. So the levy is now being calculated at $324,000. That's a 4% increase

[2:35:51] Voice 13: over last year, and we would expect that about a quarter of this increase will be collected on

[2:35:57] Voice 13: on new construction.

[2:35:59] Voice 13: One of the other data changes that we look at

[2:36:02] Voice 13: impacts trustee remuneration.

[2:36:03] Voice 13: So specifically the number of folios

[2:36:05] Voice 13: within each local trust area has been updated

[2:36:08] Voice 13: in the trustee remuneration calculation

[2:36:10] Voice 13: as well as CPI information that's been updated.

[2:36:12] Voice 13: And so the result of those updates shows

[2:36:14] Voice 13: about a thousand dollar increase

[2:36:16] Voice 13: to trustee based remuneration.

[2:36:17] Voice 13: And we'll be updating those data sets again

[2:36:20] Voice 13: in the next version of the draft.

[2:36:24] Voice 13: So as I mentioned, the Bowen Island municipal tax levy

[2:36:28] Voice 13: has been reduced due to changes in property value distribution within the trust. And so when Bowen

[2:36:34] Voice 13: Island municipality is contributing less to the budget and the budget is at the same magnitude,

[2:36:40] Voice 13: the rest of the trust area is picking up the difference. So we have seen a change in the

[2:36:45] Voice 13: percentage increase for the local trust area. It has moved from a 4.61% increase to a 4.89%

[2:36:54] Voice 13: increase with an additional increase of 1.28% collected on new construction as mentioned

[2:36:59] Voice 13: previously. The current draft of the budget has the same draws from surplus planned as the previous

[2:37:07] Voice 13: draft of the budget. So I've noted them there on page 39. So that is a total of about $260,000

[2:37:14] Voice 13: draw from surplus. Staff will be updating the calculation of the expected balance in the

[2:37:21] Voice 13: the general revenue surplus funds when we have third quarter actual and third quarter forecast

[2:37:25] Voice 13: results. And if there's any changes to that estimated balance as it relates to the minimum

[2:37:31] Voice 13: balance per policy, we'll be letting FPC know that at your February meeting. And you can make

[2:37:37] Voice 13: an assessment at that time whether or not you'd like to draw more or less funds from surplus to

[2:37:41] Voice 13: offset some budgeted expenditures. So what's next? Between now and FPC's February meeting,

[2:37:48] Voice 13: as I mentioned we'll be looking at third quarter numbers when we have those

[2:37:51] Voice 13: numbers prepared the management team will be reviewing those numbers against

[2:37:56] Voice 13: the draft budget expenditures for various departments to see if current

[2:38:00] Voice 13: spending trends need to you know are informing any required changes to the

[2:38:06] Voice 13: draft budget so that will be coming to you in February other than that we

[2:38:13] Voice 13: received direction from financial planning committee as to any changes

[2:38:16] Voice 13: you'd like to see incorporated into the next draft of the budget um i think that's it as far as

[2:38:23] Voice 13: changes to highlight i did include the numerical information for the budget as an attachment to

[2:38:29] Voice 13: the briefing so that begins on page 41 of the agenda as well as the information on surplus

[2:38:35] Voice 13: allocation as well as a list of our projects and all of the business cases for projects are also

[2:38:41] Voice 13: included in this agenda package for the committee's review if you'd like to do so.

[2:38:46] Voice 13: So I'm happy to take questions on any of the changes that we see in this current draft of

[2:38:50] Voice 13: the budget or receive direction if there's changes the FPC would like to see in the next version.

[2:39:07] Voice 18: No questions.

[2:39:12] Voice 13: And I realize I went through that fairly quickly so I'm happy to clarify

[2:39:15] Voice 13: on anything that's confusing.

[2:39:19] Voice 18: So are we happy with the budget as it stands, ladies and gentlemen?

[2:39:27] Voice 18: trustee fast I

[2:39:29] Trustee Fast (probable): just have a quick question on page 46 under specific projects Gabriel a housing

[2:39:37] Trustee Fast (probable): project is there but it doesn't have an amount can you remind me why that is I

[2:39:43] Voice 13: yes that project

[2:39:44] Voice 13: was removed I believe by it was either FPC or by Trust Council so it remains on the list just

[2:39:51] Voice 13: as a reminder that it was there and contemplated and removed. Thank you. Paul Brent.

[2:39:58] Voice 19: Yeah, I want

[2:40:00] Voice 19: it recorded that I'm not in favor of this budget. I mean, I could go forward and make motions that

[2:40:05] Voice 19: I'd like to see, for instance, the climate indicators removed, but I'm not sure I'd get

[2:40:09] Voice 19: much traction with this particular committee. But I do want it noted in the minutes that I'm

[2:40:15] Voice 19: not in favor of this budget as it currently sits. Thanks.

[2:40:20] Voice 18: Well, that's fair enough, but I suspect

[2:40:23] Voice 18: I suspect nothing is perfect and I suspect all of us may have some concerns.

[2:40:31] Voice 18: I have one. Here we go.

[2:40:39] Voice 18: If I may but go down Rogers you go first. Sorry Paul have your hands still up.

[2:40:45] Voice 18: I didn't mean to cut you off.

[2:40:46] Voice 18: sorry

[2:40:47] Voice 3: i i just wanted to say i don't see our role right now to be sort of uh reviewing this budget

[2:40:53] Voice 3: we haven't got the public commentary yet this this is reflects what trust council did a month ago a

[2:40:59] Voice 3: month and a half ago um you i'm not sure i agree with paul because in the sense that i'm he getting

[2:41:06] Voice 3: to get no traction because you remember this same committee removed the climate indicator

[2:41:10] Voice 3: project and trust council put it back in they also we also removed the hornby ocp and and trust

[2:41:17] Voice 3: council put it back in so um i mean i and so i guess we will wait for the public commentary but

[2:41:25] Voice 3: this does thank you julia i think i think the reason you're not getting a lot of commentary

[2:41:29] Voice 3: is because um is because this does reflect what trust council did at the beginning of december

[2:41:36] Voice 3: in terms of its decisions and I guess it'll then come around to Trust Council to

[2:41:42] Voice 3: make a final decision in March as to what it can or cannot approve. So thank you.

[2:41:51] Voice 3: Sue Ellen first.

[2:41:53] Trustee Fast (probable): And also that Claire's going to send this all out on Friday

[2:41:57] Trustee Fast (probable): so well it's kind of in in the works now. Thank you.

[2:42:05] Voice 18: I have a question slash comment if that's okay.

[2:42:09] Voice 18: um for some reason the trust council we did not address um the business plan for

[2:42:16] Voice 18: for the uh islands trust conservancy for an additional body i seem to recall and that was

[2:42:24] Voice 18: something we i thought we were going to talk about but we never seemed to yes

[2:42:29] Voice 9: we did and

[2:42:31] Voice 18: And what did we decide?

[2:42:32] Voice 18: That we needed it?

[2:42:33] Voice 9: Yes.

[2:42:38] Voice 3: That is a bit misleading, Trustee Samford.

[2:42:42] Voice 18: Well, let me tell you what I'm coming from.

[2:42:44] Voice 18: Page 31 of this package that we've looked at shows the Islands Trust Conservancy actual

[2:42:50] Voice 18: spending by fiscal year.

[2:42:53] Voice 18: For the last 10 years, I've been saying the Islands Trust Conservancy expenses is not

[2:43:00] Voice 18: set out separately in our financial reporting. So we have staff members who are bundled in with

[2:43:08] Voice 18: other staff members. So it's very difficult to know what we spent. And the reason I had those

[2:43:13] Voice 18: concerns over the years is we kept adding more properties to our inventory with apparently no

[2:43:21] Voice 18: thought as to the cost of maintaining those properties. If we look at 31, page 31, the total

[2:43:28] Voice 18: spending has gone up from 600,000 to 1

[2:43:31] Voice 9: .2

[2:43:41] Voice 18: million. So I am concerned about that. And we've now got

[2:43:52] Voice 18: an additional person who we are including in this coming year's budget. And I just want to make sure

[2:43:59] Voice 18: everybody understands that. I did ask Julia if she could give me a rough and ready as to what

[2:44:05] Voice 18: the Islands Trust Conservancy is costing us. I think we need to be aware of that, and it needs

[2:44:11] Voice 18: to be identified separately so that we do understand what we're doing. So those are my

[2:44:17] Voice 18: comments. It does worry me somewhat. I see Chair Luckham has got his hand up.

[2:44:25] Planner Mayes (probable): thank you and i may be speaking out of turn because it may be more appropriate for the chair

[2:44:33] Planner Mayes (probable): of trust conservancy to speak up and i do see her hand up and so maybe i'll just say and perhaps

[2:44:40] Planner Mayes (probable): she would like to address it um that there is indeed a process significant process in place

[2:44:47] Planner Mayes (probable): that does account for what it costs to preserve and protect these properties.

[2:44:53] Planner Mayes (probable): And indeed, many individuals that are now contributing property,

[2:44:59] Planner Mayes (probable): there is also a donation required to sustain those properties.

[2:45:05] Planner Mayes (probable): So I would say it's unfair to say that there isn't a process in place to recognize the cost.

[2:45:11] Planner Mayes (probable): And I think that there's significant cost savings to the Islands Trust

[2:45:14] Planner Mayes (probable): and significant generosity by those people

[2:45:17] Planner Mayes (probable): that are not only donating land,

[2:45:19] Planner Mayes (probable): but they're also donating money.

[2:45:20] Planner Mayes (probable): Thank you.

[2:45:22] Voice 18: Trustee Stamford.

[2:45:24] Voice 9: Yes, I mean, there is this,

[2:45:28] Voice 9: our annual report goes through our budgeting process.

[2:45:33] Voice 9: We do provide our budget to the Islands Trust,

[2:45:38] Voice 9: or to the council.

[2:45:40] Voice 9: We have gone through this several times.

[2:45:42] Voice 9: one of the challenges I think for trustees when they're looking at the Islands Trust Conservancy

[2:45:50] Voice 9: is it is a program that's designed to grow that's the element of success of it therefore

[2:45:57] Voice 9: that growth indicates a certain level of increase in expense so formulas have been put in place

[2:46:04] Voice 9: that do provide that step-by-step increase

[2:46:08] Voice 9: rather than coming to Trust Council every five, 10 years

[2:46:15] Voice 9: expecting jumps in those increases.

[2:46:18] Voice 9: So it's an incremental increase

[2:46:19] Voice 9: based on what kind of reserves are coming online,

[2:46:24] Voice 9: what kind of properties need to be brought on.

[2:46:27] Voice 9: And Chair Luckman is correct.

[2:46:30] Voice 9: We now have a requirement

[2:46:31] Voice 9: when reserves or parks or donations of land are made.

[2:46:38] Voice 9: There is also now a consideration of management fees

[2:46:43] Voice 9: that go along with that donation.

[2:46:46] Voice 9: Part of the consideration for a position for fundraising

[2:46:51] Voice 9: is to mitigate these costs.

[2:46:54] Voice 9: It's a very question that you are speaking to

[2:46:57] Voice 9: is an ability to be able to subsidize these costs and make inroads into supporting these programs

[2:47:07] Voice 9: in a long-term, much more sustainable way. So that speaks directly to it. And there was an

[2:47:14] Voice 9: opportunity for this to be brought up at Trust Council. It was not brought up to be considered

[2:47:22] Voice 9: specifically and I would see that as council support for that specific position but you are

[2:47:31] Voice 9: speaking mainly to the overall expenses that are increasing for Islands Trust Conservancy if I

[2:47:38] Voice 9: understand your comments.

[2:47:40] Voice 18: Sorry if I may only in so far as it affects the Islands Trust as a whole

[2:47:49] Voice 18: because many of those expenses are actually maintained and kept within the conservancy

[2:47:55] Voice 18: books if you like anyhow it's just something we need to be aware of and where we are adding

[2:48:03] Voice 18: expenses when we're worrying about the bottom line and i think that conservancy plays a fairly

[2:48:10] Voice 18: large role in that um increase anyway um stanford and then fast um

[2:48:18] Voice 9: i i sorry my hand is still up but

[2:48:21] Voice 9: yes it i do recognize that when you see those expenses going up it's because the program itself

[2:48:29] Voice 9: is growing and as those pro the program grows so do the expenses associated with to it but it is

[2:48:37] Voice 9: as part of the demonstration of success of that program.

[2:48:40] Voice 9: And constituents have consistently demonstrated support

[2:48:46] Voice 9: for the ongoing work that the Conservancy provides,

[2:48:50] Voice 9: not just to individual islands,

[2:48:53] Voice 9: but to work with other groups, conservation groups,

[2:48:59] Voice 9: and the overall role it provides

[2:49:01] Voice 9: within the Islands Trust

[2:49:04] Voice 9: trust is um a large part of the success that we see the islands trust um witnessing with its

[2:49:12] Voice 9: constituents this is what people want to see is conserved on conservation well

[2:49:18] Voice 18: and fast oh thank

[2:49:20] Trustee Fast (probable): you chair um yeah i'm just thinking that the uh the grants will probably that come to the islands

[2:49:27] Trustee Fast (probable): trust conservancy will probably be recognized in the uh other color of the the graph um that we

[2:49:34] Trustee Fast (probable): We talked about earlier where Julia is going to add in the grant portion to those columns,

[2:49:40] Trustee Fast (probable): but what's not shown, and I wonder if Peter's point might mean that we should show it somewhere,

[2:49:49] Trustee Fast (probable): is the some of these numbers that you may have seen before, like the 47 million total

[2:49:54] Trustee Fast (probable): appraised value of the properties donated and acquired through donations.

[2:50:01] Trustee Fast (probable): You know, what's not showing is the donations side of things, only the staff cost of expenses.

[2:50:10] Trustee Fast (probable): They show up in the, and I wondered whether that might help people understand the program better, that it's not just about expenses.

[2:50:20] Trustee Fast (probable): It's also about the assets that have been acquired and that are not reflected anywhere here.

[2:50:29] Trustee Fast (probable): year. Nowhere does it say the numbers of nature reserves and conservation covenants, for example,

[2:50:35] Trustee Fast (probable): or their appraised value or the numbers of donations. All of those kind of things kind

[2:50:42] Trustee Fast (probable): of come in on the revenue side, and they might help people understand these figures more.

[2:50:47] Trustee Fast (probable): What do you think? I

[2:50:49] Voice 9: could just jump in quickly and say that maybe a link to the annual report

[2:50:52] Voice 9: would be helpful for the Island Trust Conservancy annual report would give people a better

[2:50:59] Voice 9: idea of the overall program good idea i

[2:51:04] Voice 18: think that's a very good idea paul brent's got his

[2:51:06] Voice 18: hand up

[2:51:06] Voice 19: yeah and maybe further to sue ellen's point maybe we should benchmark uh the island's

[2:51:11] Voice 19: trust conservancy in terms of its annual budget and uh the number of acres of land conserved

[2:51:18] Voice 19: against other major conservation uh groups that would be another really good measure that we might

[2:51:24] Voice 19: consider. Sorry, Paul, what do you mean by benchmark? Benchmark, as in show how the

[2:51:31] Voice 19: conservancy compares to other conservancies in terms of the amount of land conserved

[2:51:38] Voice 19: for the amount of dollars spent in running the organization. Good idea.

[2:51:44] Voice 9: So that's a good idea,

[2:51:45] Voice 9: but the devil's in the detail on that. So we could compare to large-scale

[2:51:52] Voice 9: land acquisitions that would make the islands trust conservancy look ridiculous on the other

[2:51:59] Voice 9: hand we could add to value um you could look at conservation value that would change those

[2:52:07] Voice 9: numbers somewhat so i think how we would do that benchmarking um and what kind of criteria would be

[2:52:13] Voice 9: used um you would see very different numbers so

[2:52:17] Voice 19: so what you're saying is well we're different right

[2:52:20] Voice 19: right?

[2:52:21] Voice 9: You could, I think all conservation organizations have a specialization. We could

[2:52:28] Voice 9: look at value for land, and you would get a very different sense of numbers. Or you could look at

[2:52:35] Voice 9: value for species at risk, say, that are conserved, that would give you a different

[2:52:42] Voice 9: set of values. You know, it's certainly something to look at. But you would have to be very careful

[2:52:48] Voice 9: how you compare and that you're comparing apples to apples could we

[2:52:54] Trustee Fast (probable): maybe put that on another agenda

[2:52:55] Trustee Fast (probable): at some point or

[2:52:59] Voice 18: brent chair luckham and then i'd like to press on i'm

[2:53:02] Voice 19: just going to say fair

[2:53:03] Voice 19: enough fair enough i just look at what's being done on on you know just my island in terms of

[2:53:08] Voice 19: other conservancies and i just do a little benchmarking on what they cost and and yeah so

[2:53:13] Voice 19: So it's something for a further agenda, I'm sure.

[2:53:18] Voice 18: Peter Luckham,

[2:53:22] Voice 18: you're muted, Peter.

[2:53:27] Voice 18: You're still muted.

[2:53:28] Voice 18: There we go.

[2:53:30] Planner Mayes (probable): I agree.

[2:53:31] Planner Mayes (probable): This maybe needs to be another conversation.

[2:53:36] Planner Mayes (probable): But, however, you know, I suggested earlier

[2:53:40] Planner Mayes (probable): that we needed some kind of better graph

[2:53:42] Planner Mayes (probable): in the actual Islands Trust expense by fiscal year graph

[2:53:46] Planner Mayes (probable): asked, because indeed the Allen's Trust Conservancy, if you look at that, you can't really tell

[2:53:51] Planner Mayes (probable): what the change is, but it indicates that this year it's around 12% of the total. I would suggest

[2:53:59] Planner Mayes (probable): that it was maybe slightly more even last year or the same, and then in all the previous years,

[2:54:07] Planner Mayes (probable): lower with small increases. And I suspect that some of that increase reflected this year,

[2:54:15] Planner Mayes (probable): and i don't know what the percentage would be would indeed be from the grant funding that has

[2:54:20] Planner Mayes (probable): been received so i think um we need to analyze that more closely and consider how it is that

[2:54:30] Planner Mayes (probable): we characterize it like increasing expenses um because um i think that uh the conservancy runs

[2:54:37] Planner Mayes (probable): and incredibly tight and is absolutely conscious of its impact on the budget so

[2:54:46] Voice 18: there you go okay

[2:54:48] Voice 18: thank you um 6.2.2 julia budget numerical details or do you feel you've covered that uh there's

[2:54:57] Voice 13: nothing in there in particular that i need to review um so this just simply reflects the changes

[2:55:02] Voice 13: that were discussed in the briefing and it's

[2:55:05] Voice 13: there for information 6

[2:55:06] Voice 18: .2.3 surplus funds allocation

[2:55:10] Voice 13: this is also just there for the committee's information there's no change to the surplus

[2:55:15] Voice 13: allocations over the previous draft by

[2:55:17] Voice 18: the way anyone who's got any questions about these things

[2:55:20] Voice 18: please speak up 6.2.4 projects list again

[2:55:26] Voice 13: also just attaches to the numerical detail for

[2:55:29] Voice 13: information and this name

[2:55:32] Voice 5: is true of

[2:55:33] Voice 13: 6.2.4 which reflects our strategic plan projects and

[2:55:36] Voice 13: operational projects and then 625 all the way up to six oh yeah 625 is all of the business cases

[2:55:45] Voice 13: that are associated with projects anybody

[2:55:49] Voice 18: have any questions about any of that because now we have the

[2:55:54] Voice 18: 6.3 you know we have the verbal sorry the webinar the famous webinar that what we've all been

[2:56:03] Voice 18: looking forward to the webinar no doubt everyone's going to be signing in on the 27th of of uh this

[2:56:10] Voice 18: month it's going to be a very exciting event uh julia did you want to talk to us about that

[2:56:19] Voice 13: uh director freighter will be

[2:56:20] Voice 18: uh director i beg your pardon claire sorry that is your baby

[2:56:25] Voice 7: uh yes uh just wanted to give you a verbal update about the plans for the webinar

[2:56:29] Voice 7: so we are planning to promote the webinar along with the general promotion of the survey and other

[2:56:35] Voice 7: engagement opportunities we are planning it for the evening of january 27th at 7 pm

[2:56:41] Voice 7: We will be encouraging people to register in advance for participation and to submit

[2:56:46] Voice 7: questions in advance so we have an opportunity to have good responses to their questions prepared.

[2:56:52] Voice 7: What we're proposing as an order of events is to have some sort of traditional welcome and

[2:56:59] Voice 7: territorial acknowledgement, then a presentation and welcome or a welcome by chair Luckum,

[2:57:06] Voice 7: Islands Trust Council Chair Luckum and a short overview of the Islands Trust and our main

[2:57:11] Voice 7: program areas to be followed by a presentation by FPC Chair Peter Grove about the budget process

[2:57:20] Voice 7: and then moving to Director Mobs to give an overview of the highlights of the proposed budget.

[2:57:25] Voice 7: After that we would host a question and answer session where we would read out the questions

[2:57:30] Voice 7: that had been submitted and then turn it to the panel to provide their answers to those questions.

[2:57:35] Voice 7: so currently that's what's being suggested but we're happy to hear your input as to whether that

[2:57:40] Voice 7: is your vision for the night and if you have any other suggestions

[2:57:51] Voice 18: julie are you putting your hand up no vision oh so sue ellen uh

[2:57:57] Trustee Fast (probable): thank you chair um did i hear you

[2:58:02] Trustee Fast (probable): would there be time for questions i'm afraid i missed that

[2:58:05] Voice 7: yes we'll be asking people to

[2:58:06] Voice 7: provide questions in advance and then um yeah and then we'll have a question and answer session

[2:58:13] Voice 7: where we can read out the people's questions much as we did with the um information session on the

[2:58:17] Voice 7: policy statement a year or so ago and then uh we'll have the panel answer the questions thank

[2:58:22] Voice 7: you good

[2:58:24] Voice 3: uh dan rogers and and sorry the panel is julia peter and peter

[2:58:31] Voice 7: correct that's what that's

[2:58:33] Voice 7: what we're proposing you

[2:58:36] Voice 3: don't look very happy about that then no i'm fine with that i i just

[2:58:41] Voice 3: um i just didn't okay that's fine what

[2:58:44] Voice 18: did you have in your mind because uh i i i

[2:58:46] Voice 3: mean we haven't

[2:58:49] Voice 3: done this before so it's um uh it's it's kind of tough they they've been doing them in my regional

[2:58:57] Voice 3: district but it's easier of course they just go from area to area and bring in the directors from

[2:59:02] Voice 3: those areas to speak to them i um i it's going to be challenging that's all um to sort of answer

[2:59:11] Voice 3: specific questions on a a trust area wide basis because that's really the only way you can really

[2:59:20] Voice 3: answer these questions as opposed to a local trust committee uh basis i just hope you feel like

[2:59:26] Voice 3: I know with Julia there anything is possible even the impossible and so I hope you feel like you

[2:59:35] Voice 3: have enough resources to do all that but

[2:59:37] Voice 18: thank you for doing it you

[2:59:39] Voice 18: raise a good point would

[2:59:40] Voice 18: it be helpful to have the the chairs of the local trust committees there to answer specific

[2:59:46] Voice 18: questions about specific island groups budget's

[2:59:53] Voice 3: not done on an island baby island basis so I don't

[2:59:57] Voice 3: think so. I don't know.

[3:00:00] Voice 3: no, it's a new concept. I think you'll do great. And Peter Luckums put his hand up.

[3:00:06] Planner Mayes (probable): Well, I just wanted to say that that is a good question, Dan, but you even answered the question

[3:00:14] Planner Mayes (probable): there that this is a council budget and individual LCCs don't have a specific budget other than

[3:00:23] Planner Mayes (probable): and project requests.

[3:00:25] Planner Mayes (probable): And I'm sure that there might be adequate ability

[3:00:31] Planner Mayes (probable): from the business cases to address that.

[3:00:35] Planner Mayes (probable): And I would maybe suggest Claire

[3:00:37] Planner Mayes (probable): that there'd be a preamble

[3:00:40] Planner Mayes (probable): in whatever the materials that are circulating

[3:00:42] Planner Mayes (probable): to focus the questions towards Federation wide interests

[3:00:46] Planner Mayes (probable): more so than local.

[3:00:48] Planner Mayes (probable): And that local interest could obviously be raised

[3:00:51] Planner Mayes (probable): raised at the local level when those budget deliberation request deliberations happened,

[3:00:57] Planner Mayes (probable): which I think was back in September. But anyway, that's all for me, and I'll turn it back to the

[3:01:03] Planner Mayes (probable): chair.

[3:01:06] Voice 18: Thank you. Claire?

[3:01:08] Voice 7: The one point I forgot to make in my introduction is on the IEP2 spectrum,

[3:01:12] Voice 7: this would be at the informed level. This is not an engagement. This would be simply helping people

[3:01:16] Voice 7: understand the budget and better inform them such that they can then undertake the engagement

[3:01:21] Voice 7: through the survey and other methods they might select okay thank you

[3:01:25] Voice 18: good well we'll look forward

[3:01:27] Voice 18: to that it'll be an exciting evening um under new business we have trustee fast talking about

[3:01:32] Voice 18: denman island electronics thank

[3:01:36] Trustee Fast (probable): you uh chair yes i just wanted to um let you know that on

[3:01:40] Trustee Fast (probable): the 13th which was last week uh denman local trust committee um passed a motion requesting

[3:01:47] Trustee Fast (probable): requesting Trust Council to consider adding a full-time position for electronic meeting support back in,

[3:01:54] Trustee Fast (probable): because we were in another phase of leaving in-person meetings behind and moving online again.

[3:02:03] Trustee Fast (probable): And having just made the changes to the meeting procedures by law,

[3:02:12] Trustee Fast (probable): and having canceled the meeting and moved to meeting

[3:02:16] Trustee Fast (probable): and started a special meeting

[3:02:18] Trustee Fast (probable): or setting up a special electronic meeting,

[3:02:22] Trustee Fast (probable): we just realized that we needed that support.

[3:02:27] Trustee Fast (probable): So we wanted to bring it back to Trust Council.

[3:02:30] Trustee Fast (probable): And so I'm just giving you a heads up

[3:02:32] Trustee Fast (probable): that this will probably be on the February agenda of FPC maybe,

[3:02:38] Trustee Fast (probable): or maybe it'll go straight to Trust Council.

[3:02:40] Trustee Fast (probable): I'm not sure.

[3:02:42] Trustee Fast (probable): But I wanted to let you know.

[3:02:44] Voice 18: Sorry, may I ask, why is Trust Council involved?

[3:02:47] Voice 18: It seems a bit of an overkill.

[3:02:51] Voice 18: Surely we can deal with this without having to go back to Trust Council.

[3:02:56] Trustee Fast (probable): That's just the motion that staff put in front of the local trust committee.

[3:03:02] Trustee Fast (probable): I believe, so I'm sure we could weigh in.

[3:03:07] Trustee Fast (probable): I don't know.

[3:03:09] Trustee Fast (probable): We work for Trust Council, right?

[3:03:12] Trustee Fast (probable): So advise them.

[3:03:16] Voice 18: uh julia mobs i

[3:03:18] Voice 13: did hear about this resolution just this morning what i've suggested is that

[3:03:22] Voice 13: an rfd be prepared for financial planning committee's february meeting uh you know it is a

[3:03:28] Voice 13: resolution directed to trust council but financial planning committee does recommend to trust council

[3:03:32] Voice 13: on budget items so it makes sense to land here first and then council will have a chance to look

[3:03:36] Voice 13: at it subsequent

[3:03:37] Voice 18: laura bouchakin and then dan rogers oh my goodness this is the whole thing

[3:03:42] Voice 18: is lighting up paul brenton and peter luckham

[3:03:45] Trustee Busheikin (probable): yes i was i was actually there at the time that

[3:03:49] Trustee Busheikin (probable): the resolution was made and voted in favor um albeit reluctantly but um the discussion as i

[3:03:57] Trustee Busheikin (probable): remember um at the time was that because trust counsel is the ultimate decision maker that's

[3:04:03] Trustee Busheikin (probable): what we put in the motion but that it was understood that it would very likely go through

[3:04:08] Trustee Busheikin (probable): FDC, but it was difficult to figure out the timing given where this is at in the process.

[3:04:14] Trustee Busheikin (probable): And just to be clear, there was, I believe, a written rationale from staff, certainly a verbal

[3:04:19] Trustee Busheikin (probable): rationale, which is that currently admin and planning time is being spent across the trust

[3:04:28] Trustee Busheikin (probable): area to administer these electronic meetings that is impacting those professionals' ability to do

[3:04:36] Trustee Busheikin (probable): the work they're supposed to be doing um and they're not always that's as difficult for them

[3:04:43] Trustee Busheikin (probable): to bring a level of tech expertise to that job um because that isn't what they're supposed to be

[3:04:49] Trustee Busheikin (probable): doing and that if you add all that up across the trust area it's easily one full-time position

[3:04:54] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and that it's adding uh stress and taking them away from the work they should be doing

[3:05:01] Trustee Busheikin (probable): so that while no one wants to add staff because we're probably going to keep having a fair number

[3:05:08] Trustee Busheikin (probable): of electronic meetings if we don't add this position it's almost like taking away staff

[3:05:15] Trustee Busheikin (probable): from other areas by expecting to do this and it's you know when I was actually talking with a

[3:05:22] Trustee Busheikin (probable): constituent about the idea of a staff freeze and I you know I said well what what happens when

[3:05:27] Trustee Busheikin (probable): things change you know when there's a pandemic and it goes on and on and we have to have electronic

[3:05:32] Trustee Busheikin (probable): meetings and it's not just a flick of a switch we actually need to maintain that what we talked

[3:05:40] Trustee Busheikin (probable): about maintain services and programs um we might need to add staff uh it's it's how it is so anyway

[3:05:48] Trustee Busheikin (probable): that's the background behind that uh and i thought it's important to share that it was quite a

[3:05:54] Trustee Busheikin (probable): discussion at the time

[3:05:55] Voice 18: thank you cao hudson pillow your hand is up i

[3:05:59] Voice 14: defer to uh um the rest of the

[3:06:03] Voice 14: elected officials and i can follow along afterwards i can just provide the context from the report in

[3:06:07] Voice 14: november and when it first the issue first became apparent and to where we are now if that's helpful

[3:06:14] Voice 14: paul brent

[3:06:15] Voice 18: then peter luckham yeah

[3:06:18] Voice 19: so i just like to see this um uh come back to financial planning

[3:06:23] Voice 19: committee with actually a business case. And I do want to say one thing is, you know, we've had

[3:06:31] Voice 19: justification for various people like the intergovernmental manager that we have, Lisa

[3:06:38] Voice 19: Wilcox, and for the freshwater specialist. And those were justified on removing a lot of work

[3:06:45] Voice 19: from, I think it was principally planning staff. And yet that we then we hear that we haven't had

[3:06:52] Voice 19: any effective increase in planning stuff so i just i think we need to start to think about how we

[3:06:57] Voice 19: justify these things so we can't say we haven't had to hit we have an increased planning staff

[3:07:03] Voice 19: when we bring in specialists to take stuff uh away from them so i just want to sort of frame that

[3:07:10] Voice 19: make sure that we are understanding that when we're justifying adding special staff to take

[3:07:16] Voice 19: away from the duties of other staff that we we recognize that thanks thank you paul

[3:07:23] Voice 18: peter yeah um

[3:07:26] Planner Mayes (probable): you know uh time doesn't stand still and circumstances change uh dramatically uh

[3:07:33] Planner Mayes (probable): with that and indeed when this decision was made council and indeed is a council decision um

[3:07:41] Planner Mayes (probable): circumstances were different and indeed this just seems to go on and on and on

[3:07:45] Planner Mayes (probable): And as we speak, LTCs are adopting electronic bylaws, meeting bylaws in order to be able to facilitate more electronic meetings.

[3:07:54] Planner Mayes (probable): I don't know that that was necessarily contemplated because we thought we were coming out of the pandemic at that point.

[3:08:00] Planner Mayes (probable): And here we are. And so we're fortunate in that we've got the vice chairs all sit on this financial planning committee.

[3:08:10] Planner Mayes (probable): And it would be interesting to know from a general perspective whether or not that indeed LTCs are adopting the electronic updating their bylaws to allow for more electronic meetings and whether or not there's an overall flavor of realizing that they want electronic meetings.

[3:08:29] Planner Mayes (probable): Because, of course, the other side of the coin is that some of our constituents particularly don't want any electronic meetings, and we have to balance that as well.

[3:08:37] Planner Mayes (probable): But if we're going to do it, we don't want to be struggling with how to do that because although Paul certainly has a good point of view there,

[3:08:46] Planner Mayes (probable): The reality, I think, and the CAO would be able to comment on that is that there was work not getting, simply not getting done in those areas, support staff areas, because those individuals were being drawn away to run electronic meetings.

[3:09:05] Planner Mayes (probable): There we go.

[3:09:11] Voice 14: Over to me, Mr. Chair.

[3:09:13] Voice 18: Ross, you are...

[3:09:15] Voice 14: How much time do you want to give me, Chair Grove?

[3:09:18] Voice 14: an

[3:09:19] Voice 18: hour an hour time you need do i

[3:09:21] Voice 14: have an hour to

[3:09:22] Voice 18: do what russ oh

[3:09:25] Voice 14: just to walk across the range

[3:09:29] Voice 14: of the issue um you know uh i this is this has appeared uh quickly but uh uh it uh this specific

[3:09:38] Voice 14: request but the issue isn't and and just stepping back from the islands trust and electronic meetings

[3:09:44] Voice 14: in total we're from a technological point of view we're very very good we have not solved this

[3:09:53] Voice 14: this change in how we do business yet and that will happen sometime in the future

[3:10:00] Voice 14: trust council in september primarily um accelerated by the state of emergency being

[3:10:10] Voice 14: lifted on the 29th of september had to rapidly come up with a way to have a future with electronic

[3:10:16] Voice 14: meetings and what we did during the pandemic is we just took our staff and said you do this now

[3:10:24] Voice 14: and what they did is every time that there's a um a cim on ltc meeting or something we had

[3:10:31] Voice 14: an administrator sitting there for that whole meeting so you start to multiply all the cims

[3:10:38] Voice 14: and all the meetings and you start to add up to time.

[3:10:42] Voice 14: So a proposal is put in front of trust council to say,

[3:10:44] Voice 14: if you wanna go into this hole,

[3:10:47] Voice 14: then let's address where we're losing some efficiency

[3:10:52] Voice 14: and work in the other.

[3:10:53] Voice 14: If you wanna keep doing the electronic meetings,

[3:10:55] Voice 14: this would be a way to do it.

[3:10:57] Voice 14: Trust council thought it through.

[3:10:59] Voice 14: They weren't comfortable at that point

[3:11:02] Voice 14: and they made this decision.

[3:11:04] Voice 14: Here's the alternative.

[3:11:05] Voice 14: We're living it right now.

[3:11:08] Voice 14: it's the vice chairs that are providing an interim step we're taking a six-month study

[3:11:15] Voice 14: to see how effective it is we got new technology in the form of a couple of briefcases or a couple

[3:11:21] Voice 14: of you know luggage cases of equipment that each vice chair brings to each meeting and sets up

[3:11:28] Voice 14: and then they provide the meetings and they're having to learn some software and it's great that

[3:11:33] Voice 14: we have vice chairs that are willing to take this on is that a sustainable long-range plan for the

[3:11:38] Voice 14: Islands Trust to provide you know world-class electronic meeting attendance for everybody

[3:11:43] Voice 14: across 13 different regions probably not but we're making it work right now

[3:11:51] Voice 14: if we want to go somewhere else we're going to have to look at some resourcing whether it's

[3:11:55] Voice 14: this proposal or or or some version of it and to have these things be provided on a dedicated basis

[3:12:03] Voice 14: basis and I hear, I completely hear, well, I hear two competing thoughts. When I first came to the

[3:12:09] Voice 14: trust, it's why don't we have electronic meetings? We have to get more people listening and hearing

[3:12:14] Voice 14: and participating. So there's that move, the pandemic hit us and all of a sudden we're right

[3:12:19] Voice 14: in that world. And of course, some constituents want to have live meetings and they prefer those.

[3:12:24] Voice 14: What's being asked for is both at the same time. Not an either or, but a both. And both is tough.

[3:12:34] Voice 14: to provide without having some resources dedicated to it so I'm not really speaking to you know the

[3:12:39] Voice 14: proposal on the table right now I'm just giving you some backstory what we're doing now isn't

[3:12:43] Voice 14: long-term sustainable but we had to address it because come September 29th no more state of

[3:12:50] Voice 14: emergency we had to provide live meetings and ongoing pandemic we're not back in a local state

[3:12:58] Voice 14: of emergency so we need the fluidity of each our meeting procedures bylaws amended etc etc

[3:13:02] Voice 14: et cetera. We'll have to put our minds to it. If not this budget cycle, the next one to do this

[3:13:10] Voice 14: well, however that looks. Thanks.

[3:13:15] Voice 18: Thank you very much. That was helpful. Paul Brent.

[3:13:22] Voice 19: My apologies. I'm having difficulty moving something in front of my lower hand

[3:13:27] Voice 19: part of the screen. So consider it lowered. Okay. So where

[3:13:34] Voice 18: are we here?

[3:13:38] Trustee Fast (probable): just that that will come to the february meeting trust trustee grove chair grove thank you

[3:13:46] Voice 18: thank you i lost my cheat sheet somehow um so um julia help me where are we now and where do we

[3:13:55] Voice 18: have to go uh

[3:13:57] Voice 13: we still have one item on the agenda uh it's item 7.1 i believe i

[3:14:03] Voice 18: found it sorry yeah

[3:14:04] Voice 18: Yeah.

[3:14:06] Voice 13: And this is coming to financial planning committee page

[3:14:09] Voice 18: 110111. If you'd like to put

[3:14:12] Voice 18: building permit review cost recovery options, Julia, this is David Marlowe is meant to be

[3:14:17] Voice 18: talking about this. Is that right?

[3:14:19] Voice 13: That's right. You don't want me anywhere near this one.

[3:14:22] Voice 18: David, there you are. I see you're just in front of the Alps.

[3:14:25] Voice 1: Hi, yes, thank you. And good afternoon. Yeah, I'm not going to read through this report.

[3:14:30] Voice 1: This is a briefing as requested in November 10th meeting to address the cost and looking at options to recover the cost of doing the building permit referrals.

[3:14:43] Voice 1: So in the briefing, I provide you a little bit of background. Essentially, this is something we've done as long as I've been at the organization.

[3:14:50] Voice 1: That is that we've had some form of review of building permits. It has become more formalized than it was, say, 20, 25 years ago.

[3:15:00] Voice 1: And the reasons for that, I've laid out inside the briefing here for you.

[3:15:06] Voice 1: On the next page, page 111, at the top there, there's four regional districts that do building permitting.

[3:15:16] Voice 1: And Quathet Regional District, Powell River, doesn't actually undertake building inspection, but they do have a bylaw that applies to Liskety.

[3:15:25] Voice 1: And then Devon and Hornby, obviously, we have site and use permits.

[3:15:28] Voice 1: So there's the four regional districts that are listed at the top there that we do the work for.

[3:15:34] Voice 1: I just wanted to point out here the volume because that gives you an idea of what the cost is.

[3:15:40] Voice 1: So on average over the past five years, it's around 400 referrals that we receive and the time to do them anywhere from two to three hours.

[3:15:51] Voice 1: Some can be a little bit less, some can be a little bit longer than that.

[3:15:54] Voice 1: that's just an average. So we're looking at about 80% of the planning technician's time. In other

[3:16:01] Voice 1: words, for the planning technician, four days a week would be working on the building permits

[3:16:08] Voice 1: as well. And then of those, you can see that Capital Regional District accounts for the

[3:16:15] Voice 1: majority of them, with Salt Spring accounting for about 40% of all of them. So at the bottom

[3:16:22] Voice 1: of the page there's really two options to explore if you would like to look at recovering costs one

[3:16:32] Voice 1: is some form of voluntary agreement with the regional districts so I've just laid out the

[3:16:39] Voice 1: process there and what's some of the downside of doing this which is mainly we could have a

[3:16:47] Voice 1: different agreement with four different regional districts or potentially you know some might not

[3:16:53] Voice 1: want to do anything and others might be agreeable the uh the second option is to go to the minister

[3:17:00] Voice 1: and ask for a regulatory amendment the minister does have the ability to um do that there's

[3:17:06] Voice 1: actually three different sections two sections down the trust act and one section the local

[3:17:10] Voice 1: government act that they could use for that authorization for the minister to give local

[3:17:16] Voice 1: trust committee's ability to charge a fee for a building permit referral. And again, I've laid out

[3:17:22] Voice 1: the work there. Of those two options, I would say that the regulatory amendment option, given

[3:17:30] Voice 1: the recent attention that Islands Trust has had and the volume of work that the ministry has,

[3:17:37] Voice 1: is likely going to take a long time if it gets any attention from the minister. So I'll leave it at

[3:17:44] Voice 1: that there's no recommendation it's just a briefing uh it would be up to i would say trust

[3:17:50] Voice 1: council or the executive committee to provide direction um but if the financial planning

[3:17:55] Voice 1: committee could make recommendations on this as well okay back to the

[3:18:02] Voice 18: chair thank you we have a

[3:18:05] Voice 18: number of this this is like jeopardy the book my board has lit up um russ are you still on the list

[3:18:12] Voice 18: because your hand which is brown rather than yellow i

[3:18:16] Voice 14: don't know why that is i apologize for

[3:18:18] Voice 14: that um see if see if it can be fixed in the future but no i'm lowering my hand

[3:18:22] Voice 18: okay paul brent

[3:18:27] Voice 19: okay i'm going to recommend that we go with option a um i just don't see why russ can't initiate a

[3:18:31] Voice 19: conversation with bob lapham of the crd or kevin laurette and uh start this start this process off

[3:18:38] Voice 19: Once the CAO does this, it depends really what we see.

[3:18:44] Voice 19: If we get pushback from all of the regions or a majority of them, then that gives us the perfect opportunity to move to option B.

[3:18:51] Voice 19: And option A seems like a pretty simple one to me and something that I'm surprised we haven't done.

[3:18:58] Voice 19: Thanks.

[3:19:00] Voice 18: Peter Luckham.

[3:19:07] Voice 12: Can't hear you.

[3:19:08] Voice 18: You're muted, Peter.

[3:19:12] Planner Mayes (probable): And here I was saying such eloquent things.

[3:19:15] Planner Mayes (probable): I'll have to start again.

[3:19:16] Planner Mayes (probable): Anyway, Paul Brent, I appreciate your option A there.

[3:19:21] Planner Mayes (probable): Certainly those telephone calls could happen,

[3:19:24] Planner Mayes (probable): but I don't know that I would chase this too much

[3:19:26] Planner Mayes (probable): because I suspect there would be some resistance.

[3:19:29] Planner Mayes (probable): I think going to the minister

[3:19:31] Planner Mayes (probable): and asking for that legislative change

[3:19:34] Planner Mayes (probable): would be the ideal scenario.

[3:19:36] Planner Mayes (probable): From a perspective is that the minister

[3:19:41] Planner Mayes (probable): could help us with that or not,

[3:19:43] Planner Mayes (probable): But I'm sure that it's also maybe not unclear to them that we're interested in getting an increase in the contribution to the Islands Trust from the province.

[3:19:54] Planner Mayes (probable): And certainly, if we are demonstrating our ability through application-free renewals and budget restraint and looking at other forms of revenue, we're trying to do the best we can, and it will make our ask of the province less.

[3:20:10] Planner Mayes (probable): last so i think there's a self-interest there um but i am very pleased to see this report and would

[3:20:16] Planner Mayes (probable): follow uh it through to the end so to speak laura

[3:20:21] Voice 18: patrick the

[3:20:24] Voice 11: purpose of this request was we're

[3:20:25] Voice 11: trying to you know instead of having taxpayers recover the burden of development and so that

[3:20:31] Voice 11: that is the overall purpose is that those that are developing pay for the cost of developing and that

[3:20:36] Voice 11: if this was a we were a service provider that provided the building permit and land use planning

[3:20:44] Voice 11: functions this is a typical action they have to look up you know whether or not you're allowed

[3:20:50] Voice 11: to do what you're doing so this is just a subset of the cost of a building pertinent in any other

[3:20:55] Voice 11: district um i i absolutely support paul's suggestion i think it is start with option a

[3:21:01] Voice 11: and and the main reason is our mandate says we do everything we do in cooperation with and i think

[3:21:10] Voice 11: the more we do in cooperation with the the regional districts that have the building permit processes

[3:21:15] Voice 11: the more streamlined the communications and everything can be to the people who are trying to

[3:21:20] Voice 11: you know to do the actions that they're trying to do build their houses or remodel or what they're

[3:21:25] Voice 11: doing rather than having such distinct separate processes we you know should be you're doing an

[3:21:30] Voice 11: activity we should be working together to communicate that thank

[3:21:35] Voice 18: you laura um laura

[3:21:38] Voice 18: boucher can you

[3:21:41] Trustee Busheikin (probable): um yeah i agree with the general uh direction it seems everyone agrees which is

[3:21:46] Trustee Busheikin (probable): my option option b i agree that this um with the idea of following through on this and um

[3:21:53] Trustee Busheikin (probable): getting as far as making it happen if at all possible i and i just have a question to help

[3:22:00] Trustee Busheikin (probable): help me understand how this would work.

[3:22:02] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Like would the regional district add something

[3:22:07] Trustee Busheikin (probable): like add 50 bucks or something, I don't know,

[3:22:10] Trustee Busheikin (probable): some amount onto their building permit fee

[3:22:15] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and then remit that money back to the island's trust?

[3:22:20] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Or like, I'm not sure what the mechanism is.

[3:22:24] Trustee Busheikin (probable): And so then I guess along with that is it,

[3:22:27] Trustee Busheikin (probable): it could it not be as simple as as you know extending the siting and use permits throughout

[3:22:33] Trustee Busheikin (probable): the trust area that to get a building permit you need a siting and use permit a siting and use

[3:22:38] Trustee Busheikin (probable): permit for people who aren't familiar in the northern region several islands use them a couple

[3:22:42] Trustee Busheikin (probable): do and it just it literally is it asks the question is this proposed development um compliant

[3:22:51] Trustee Busheikin (probable): compliant with the land use by-law and they're not expensive for the they're yeah under a thousand

[3:22:59] Trustee Busheikin (probable): dollars I think even when we change our fees by-law and that yeah so the yes I'd like some

[3:23:09] Trustee Busheikin (probable): idea about the mechanism how that will work.

[3:23:13] Voice 18: I think

[3:23:16] Trustee Fast (probable): David Marner's got his hand up for

[3:23:19] Trustee Fast (probable): an answer

[3:23:20] Voice 14: he could answer the question yeah

[3:23:22] Voice 1: david yeah thank you i'm just going to respond to that

[3:23:25] Voice 1: on the second part first citing use permits the islands trust act legislation says you can only

[3:23:32] Voice 1: use those where there's no building by law in place uh so devon and hornby is are the only

[3:23:38] Voice 1: islands that do not have building bylaws in place the regional district hasn't enacted them so we

[3:23:44] Voice 1: can extend those throughout the area. On the previous one that is the question is as I said

[3:23:51] Voice 1: in the report here I don't know if the regional district would have the authority to raise those

[3:23:57] Voice 1: funds like whether that would be something they could just do under their building permitting

[3:24:02] Voice 1: bylaws like as you suggested add on a fee and then in some way transfer it to us we'd have to have

[3:24:09] Voice 1: some kind of contractual arrangement with them so that would be probably the first discussion

[3:24:15] Voice 1: is you know if there's interest is it possible and and then we go from there and we may you know

[3:24:21] Voice 1: if we're heading that way we'll probably talk with our lawyers a little bit about

[3:24:25] Voice 1: the best way to uh approach it that makes it legal for both parties really uh

[3:24:34] Voice 18: sue ellen and

[3:24:35] Voice 18: russ you've got your hand up maybe it's not meant to be up it is up meant to be up okay it's okay

[3:24:40] Voice 18: Thank

[3:24:41] Trustee Fast (probable): you, Chair.

[3:24:43] Trustee Fast (probable): Like some previous speakers, I agree it shouldn't be the taxpayer,

[3:24:50] Trustee Fast (probable): the general taxpayer, subsidizing building permits and this work,

[3:25:01] Trustee Fast (probable): the building permit reviews, I mean.

[3:25:04] Trustee Fast (probable): And I have been looking at other organizations that share similarities with the Islands Trust.

[3:25:14] Trustee Fast (probable): For example, in Ontario, they have conservation authorities do similar kinds of work.

[3:25:21] Trustee Fast (probable): And there, the property taxes only account for 50% of expenses.

[3:25:27] Trustee Fast (probable): The province pays 8%, and that's even with their current provincial government, the Rob Ford government, which has made some changes to the conservation authorities' processes.

[3:25:44] Trustee Fast (probable): So I think we should follow through with A and then B and then maybe C, which is ask the province for more funds so that the Islands Trust can continue to do its mandated work rather than asking taxpayers to subsidize building licensing reviews

[3:26:09] Trustee Fast (probable): views and and eroding uh support for um uh the good work that the islands trust uh does and uh

[3:26:20] Trustee Fast (probable): um yeah that's what i want to say thank you well

[3:26:26] Voice 14: thank you uh mr chair um yes please yeah certainly

[3:26:30] Voice 14: i can uh reach out to the various caos i mean i can pretty guess pretty accurately i think how

[3:26:36] Voice 14: that's going to go they won't have those funds available so they're going to come up with a

[3:26:41] Voice 14: mechanism or be willing to come up with a mechanism to amend um a bylaw and depending on where that

[3:26:49] Voice 14: bylaw is in effect whether they're common to the electoral area of a given regional district

[3:26:55] Voice 14: or not they will add some fee and we'd have to consider some remittance practice and then we'd

[3:27:03] Voice 14: multiply that times the number of regional districts that we can affect that with um

[3:27:08] Voice 14: As they're working through their budgets now, obviously, we're having a budget meeting. And traditionally, January to March is the budget focus time for a local government, right? And so I doubt it would be satisfied this year, but this could be work because they'll be setting their budgets.

[3:27:25] Voice 14: but then perhaps later on in the year that this could be considered,

[3:27:29] Voice 14: but this could be undertaken and the question asked.

[3:27:32] Voice 14: The other thing I'd point out is the governance review is about to hit the

[3:27:36] Voice 14: shores and they might be providing some insights into, you know,

[3:27:41] Voice 14: some of what you consider to be an inefficiency here on this type of

[3:27:46] Voice 14: activity where there's a subsidization occurring just by the nature of the

[3:27:51] Voice 14: trust and us not having an authority to fully um account for costs um so i i don't know whether

[3:27:59] Voice 14: that's a i don't have insight to the specifics the the report but um either that or mechanisms to

[3:28:05] Voice 14: um make more wholesale changes in a more um expeditious matter than it's been in the past

[3:28:11] Voice 14: might uh come out of that report so offer those two thoughts thank

[3:28:17] Voice 18: you so where do we go from

[3:28:19] Voice 18: here with this what is expected of us right now uh laura bouchakin well

[3:28:27] Trustee Busheikin (probable): there isn't a

[3:28:30] Trustee Busheikin (probable): draft motion here but i think that what we want to do is as a committee is to request uh staff

[3:28:39] Trustee Busheikin (probable): all right

[3:28:50] Voice 18: there is a draft motion request

[3:28:53] Trustee Busheikin (probable): staff to pursue um uh options for

[3:28:57] Trustee Busheikin (probable): for building permit review cost recovery beginning with option a i'll second that

[3:29:12] Voice 19: and

[3:29:12] Trustee Busheikin (probable): that was kind of quick so let's just make sure uh the minute taker got that i think that's

[3:29:16] Trustee Busheikin (probable): robert do you want me is that

[3:29:22] Voice 14: is that a recommendation to trust council how do we

[3:29:27] Trustee Busheikin (probable): well i don't know how do we do can we not just ask um the cao to go ahead and do the work or do

[3:29:33] Trustee Busheikin (probable): we have to ask trust counsel to ask the CAO well

[3:29:36] Voice 14: I guess the options here are pivots a trust counsel

[3:29:40] Voice 14: decision versus you know go do some explore have some exploratory conversations um part you know

[3:29:47] Voice 14: part b would obviously require trust counsel to to consider with

[3:29:52] Trustee Busheikin (probable): the exploratory conversations then

[3:29:54] Trustee Busheikin (probable): so so then um instead of starting with option a if the the um

[3:30:00] Trustee Busheikin (probable): motion and yeah thanks um russ for clarifying that because i was definitely going by the seat

[3:30:05] Trustee Busheikin (probable): of my pants um uh to to uh explore option a for building permit review cost recovery

[3:30:16] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and

[3:30:19] Voice 17: i'm still seconding thank you paul so

[3:30:28] Voice 18: we have a motion that's been duly made and seconded

[3:30:32] Voice 18: and do you wish to speak to your motion i

[3:30:36] Trustee Busheikin (probable): think everything's clear okay

[3:30:38] Voice 18: you have your hand up so

[3:30:39] Voice 18: does peter luckham um so i'll

[3:30:46] Planner Mayes (probable): speak to the motion i'm inclined to want to make an amendment um

[3:30:49] Planner Mayes (probable): and i guess i'd look for support from this but i actually had a question before it was moved and

[3:30:54] Planner Mayes (probable): seconded um and the question is to the cao um uh because i don't recall certainly executive

[3:31:04] Planner Mayes (probable): The Executive Committee has had direction from Council to seek additional funding for

[3:31:11] Planner Mayes (probable): Trust Council, ostensibly from the province.

[3:31:14] Planner Mayes (probable): We also have a conversation with the Conservancy regarding seeking some funding there as well.

[3:31:25] Planner Mayes (probable): And I can't help but wonder whether or not this might sit in an existing direction of council.

[3:31:34] Planner Mayes (probable): And if not, you know, I just say, you know, time just marches on.

[3:31:40] Planner Mayes (probable): It's amazing. And this is a window of opportunity that if we want to seriously take this up rather than dribbling the ball down the field,

[3:31:49] Planner Mayes (probable): this would be the time to ask council.

[3:31:54] Planner Mayes (probable): So that the FPC might choose to recommend to council

[3:31:57] Planner Mayes (probable): that ask for this work to be undertaken

[3:32:02] Planner Mayes (probable): because otherwise we're gonna miss this coming council

[3:32:04] Planner Mayes (probable): and it wouldn't happen until June

[3:32:06] Planner Mayes (probable): if indeed it was determined we needed to go to council.

[3:32:09] Planner Mayes (probable): So that's my strategic thinking.

[3:32:15] Planner Mayes (probable): And if through the chair,

[3:32:17] Planner Mayes (probable): if there was an answer from the CAO

[3:32:19] Planner Mayes (probable): about whether or not this might fit under an existing executive committee direction from council

[3:32:25] Voice 14: i don't none comes to mind i think our request for senior funding was to go directly to

[3:32:33] Voice 14: um the province and i do i wouldn't think that the regional district of the local governments would

[3:32:37] Voice 14: be would fall into that category okay

[3:32:40] Planner Mayes (probable): so then if i might uh chair uh suggest that i would like to

[3:32:45] Planner Mayes (probable): make an amendment and i believe i'm looking at the motion on the on the screen there that i would

[3:32:51] Planner Mayes (probable): move that the motion be amended um that uh the financial commanding planning committee recommend

[3:33:01] Planner Mayes (probable): to council that it requests staff and then essentially the same thing can

[3:33:11] Voice 18: that be considered

[3:33:11] Voice 18: a friendly amendment i would make it a motion okay so we have a motion on the table to make

[3:33:18] Voice 18: this amendment is there a seconder uh sue ellen fast is seconding either that or

[3:33:27] Voice 18: she's giving me

[3:33:28] Voice 18: two fingers i'm not sure which i'm

[3:33:31] Trustee Fast (probable): seconding it good

[3:33:32] Voice 18: thank you thank you um trustee rogers did

[3:33:34] Voice 18: you have something to say about it

[3:33:36] Voice 3: well i i was reading the staff report and it says you could

[3:33:39] Voice 3: send it to tc or executive committee and and that's what the staff has said just so much quicker

[3:33:46] Voice 3: to go to executive committee if you're going to recommend this to somebody then then to send it

[3:33:52] Voice 3: all the way back to trust council again uh uh so i and and the other thing is is i i'm

[3:34:01] Voice 3: this is just to ask them to explore it so i'm a little so i'm not sure i'm in favor of this

[3:34:07] Voice 3: amendment so i actually i'm not

[3:34:11] Planner Mayes (probable): uh yeah see i didn't i didn't hear that motion about explore

[3:34:16] Planner Mayes (probable): explore option A because I think and that was that trustee be shaken.

[3:34:20] Planner Mayes (probable): Did you not suggest that it would also move on to option B?

[3:34:27] Planner Mayes (probable): No.

[3:34:27] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Well, what I heard what I think I heard

[3:34:30] Trustee Busheikin (probable): is when I started out with explore it, starting with option A, but that

[3:34:35] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I think what I heard is that to move forward with option B

[3:34:41] Trustee Busheikin (probable): B, would likely need to involve some council direction.

[3:34:47] Trustee Busheikin (probable): And in the meantime, we can get going with option.

[3:34:50] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Like, let's start with option A.

[3:34:51] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I can't imagine it'll all get wrapped up in the next week or two, maybe.

[3:34:56] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Whatever.

[3:34:56] Trustee Busheikin (probable): It's just so that FPC on its own can make that request to staff to explore option A.

[3:35:06] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Staff can get busy with that.

[3:35:07] Voice 14: They can.

[3:35:10] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and bring back what they have discovered.

[3:35:12] Trustee Busheikin (probable): And then we can look at option B,

[3:35:14] Trustee Busheikin (probable): which I think would involve council

[3:35:17] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and or executive committee direction.

[3:35:21] Trustee Busheikin (probable): And I think staff will correct me if I'm wrong.

[3:35:24] Voice 14: I think you're generally right.

[3:35:27] Trustee Busheikin (probable): In all things.

[3:35:28] Voice 14: Yes.

[3:35:29] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Thank you.

[3:35:30] Trustee Busheikin (probable): That's clear.

[3:35:33] Voice 18: So where are we at?

[3:35:35] Voice 18: Do we want to vote?

[3:35:37] Voice 18: You've got an amendment on the floor.

[3:35:40] Voice 18: Your amendment.

[3:35:42] Voice 18: We have an amendment.

[3:35:42] Voice 18: Do we want to vote on the amendment?

[3:35:44] Voice 19: Yes, we do.

[3:35:45] Trustee Fast (probable): You've got Paul

[3:35:45] Trustee Fast (probable): Brent's hand is up.

[3:35:46] Voice 19: I'm just going to say I'm not in favor of the amendment at all.

[3:35:50] Trustee Fast (probable): Okay.

[3:35:50] Voice 19: I just can't see us slowing something so simple down.

[3:35:55] Voice 18: Okay.

[3:35:55] Voice 18: So can I call the vote on the amendment, please?

[3:36:00] Voice 18: All those in favor of the amendment.

[3:36:06] Voice 18: All those contrary.

[3:36:14] Voice 18: So Peter Lackham, you didn't vote at all.

[3:36:16] Voice 18: No, I got my hand up.

[3:36:18] Voice 18: I voted contrary.

[3:36:18] Voice 18: Did you?

[3:36:19] Voice 18: I didn't see that.

[3:36:20] Voice 18: so there was one in favor and the rest contrary so i'm afraid the motion fails um so now where

[3:36:26] Voice 18: where are we at the original motion can you highlight that it's so bloody difficult to see

[3:36:35] Voice 18: those things okay uh so the financial planning committee requests staff to explore option a for

[3:36:41] Voice 18: building permit review cost recovery is that what we're at and that's been a motion has been made

[3:36:47] Voice 18: and seconded i'm going to call the question all those in favor contrary are you sorry which way

[3:37:00] Voice 18: are you voting uh peter luckham i'm in favor good so that carries unanimously thank you

[3:37:09] Voice 18: okay onward and upwards so that covers um the new business um is there anything else anybody wants

[3:37:15] Voice 18: to talk about before we talk about the next meeting which is yeah i see a hand up trustee

[3:37:20] Voice 18: Rogers not

[3:37:21] Voice 3: to extend the meeting but I have two brief things one is we never passed a motion

[3:37:26] Voice 3: related to the approving the survey and we sort of just moved

[3:37:32] Voice 18: on from it and we need to go back

[3:37:35] Voice 18: and do that

[3:37:36] Voice 3: yeah so would you like to make that motion then please I was going to find it I think

[3:37:43] Voice 3: it's on page 16 uh and which was i move that no it's on page 13. i moved that the financial

[3:37:55] Voice 3: planning committee approved the um uh amended 2022 2023 budget public

[3:38:03] Voice 18: engagement survey thank

[3:38:06] Voice 18: you for doing that is there a second trustee trustee fast as amended

[3:38:09] Trustee Busheikin (probable): as

[3:38:10] Voice 18: amended well i said

[3:38:12] Voice 18: the amended but it could be as

[3:38:14] Voice 18: amended no

[3:38:15] Trustee Busheikin (probable): if you said amended that's fine i wasn't good enough

[3:38:18] Voice 18: any further discussion on that matter all those in favor hands up please and that chair luckham

[3:38:29] Voice 18: are you not voting peter luckham yes you are okay that carries unanimously thank you very much that

[3:38:35] Voice 18: was helpful thank you for

[3:38:36] Voice 3: reminding us i i have um one quick matter to add to this and i'm sorry

[3:38:44] Voice 3: it's just something that's been bubbling with me you can recall when the issue of the webinar came

[3:38:50] Voice 3: up you asked me what was glitching on my face and um i just i just have a view that uh a a third

[3:38:59] Voice 3: trustee that perhaps is not of the not not to be too glib about it but uh part of the uh old white

[3:39:09] Voice 3: male grouping might be a useful thing to have plus it struck me that it might be good to have

[3:39:18] Voice 3: somebody who comes from that is the chair of the Conservancy because we may have

[3:39:25] Voice 3: questions about the Conservancy as part of that webinar so I was going to suggest that you invite

[3:39:32] Voice 3: to invite Trustee Stamford to join you on that webinar

[3:39:36] Voice 3: if she's willing to do that.

[3:39:39] Voice 3: She's going to scream at me when I get off this call,

[3:39:45] Voice 3: but it just struck me that it might provide

[3:39:48] Voice 3: a different voice as well.

[3:39:51] Voice 3: And one that's quite experienced.

[3:39:52] Voice 3: She's on her third term as are you Chair Grove.

[3:39:56] Voice 18: I would be

[3:39:57] Voice 18: delighted to have her on that committee.

[3:39:59] Voice 18: How does everybody else feel though?

[3:40:01] Voice 18: You should put it to the vote.

[3:40:03] Trustee Fast (probable): I think we should ask her to.

[3:40:06] Voice 18: She'll go along with it.

[3:40:08] Trustee Fast (probable): Yes, I will go

[3:40:09] Trustee Fast (probable): along with that.

[3:40:10] Voice 18: She's very, very easy to get along with.

[3:40:12] Voice 18: So do you want to make a motion to that event or do we not?

[3:40:14] Voice 3: Well, if you need one, I'll move the FPC request that Conservancy Chair Stanford be part of the February, January 27th webinar.

[3:40:29] Voice 3: And is there

[3:40:30] Voice 18: a second webinar?

[3:40:31] Voice 3: webinar.

[3:40:32] Voice 18: That's seconded and I guess she's going to agree to that subject of the weather on Gambier

[3:40:36] Voice 18: Island of course. I

[3:40:38] Voice 9: will make sure I am off island so that I can fully participate.

[3:40:43] Voice 18: So all those in

[3:40:44] Voice 18: favor? Contrary? Thank you that carries unanimously that was a very helpful

[3:40:57] Voice 18: Dan and thank you. So the next meeting which I expect will be electronic also

[3:41:02] Voice 18: so we'll be on February the 16th at 10.30, just for a change.

[3:41:09] Voice 13: The reason

[3:41:10] Voice 18: for that, Mr.

[3:41:11] Voice 13: Chair, is we have the Audit Committee

[3:41:12] Voice 13: immediately before the February Financial Planning Committee.

[3:41:16] Voice 13: We'll be working through the audit plan with the auditors.

[3:41:18] Voice 18: And that's at 9.30, the Audit Committee?

[3:41:22] Voice 13: Usually 10. We'll circulate some information once we've got that organized.

[3:41:27] Voice 18: Well, thank you, one and all, particularly, of course,

[3:41:31] Voice 18: our staff, Claire and Julia, and in the background, they're running the show as always. That brings

[3:41:42] Voice 18: us to the end of the most entertaining. That's Robert, of course, I was talking about. Entertaining

[3:41:48] Voice 18: and enjoyable and constructive and worthwhile meeting.

[3:41:53] Trustee Fast (probable): Thank you, Chair.

[3:41:54] Voice 18: Thank you, Chair.