South Pender Island Local Trust Committee regular meeting, February 14, 2025

[0:00:00] Trustee Elliott: meeting on Luskete Island where our legislative services clerk attended. She used her mom voice

[0:00:06] Trustee Elliott: to get the attention of the crowd. There was immediate respect. That's what we need as the

[0:00:13] Trustee Elliott: chair. Anyways, welcome everyone and thank you for coming to the regularly scheduled

[0:00:20] Trustee Elliott: South Tender Local Trust Committee meeting. This is our regularly scheduled business meeting for

[0:00:26] Trustee Elliott: for today February the 14th, happy Valentine's Day.

[0:00:31] Trustee Elliott: I'd like to begin by acknowledging that as always,

[0:00:35] Trustee Elliott: we're grateful to live, work and make decisions

[0:00:38] Trustee Elliott: in the territories and waters of many Coast Salish peoples

[0:00:42] Trustee Elliott: in particular, the Wasatch, First Nation

[0:00:45] Trustee Elliott: and Sinchon speaking peoples of this area.

[0:00:48] Trustee Elliott: We've been very blessed to have a lot of cultural

[0:00:53] Trustee Elliott: information coming to this LTC and teaching us more about respectful stewardship of the lands

[0:01:00] Trustee Elliott: and waters here so we just want to always position ourselves with the knowledge of the place in which

[0:01:06] Trustee Elliott: we live so today we have an agenda before us and I have one item to add to it but are there any

[0:01:17] Trustee Elliott: additions or amendments to the agenda just want to mention one thing let me

[0:01:22] Voice 21: share that we will have Claire Crater who's the director of trust area

[0:01:26] Voice 21: services joining us electronically and she'll be presenting 17.1 the phase four

[0:01:32] Voice 21: of the community engagement options we just want to pay attention to our agenda

[0:01:37] Voice 21: today make sure we're on time she'll be joining us around one o'clock if not

[0:01:42] Voice 21: before the meeting okay

[0:01:44] Trustee Elliott: and so the item that i would like to add which was sent i believe to

[0:01:50] Trustee Elliott: to the two trustees was a letter from um mp elizabeth may to ministry there's actually

[0:01:59] Trustee Elliott: three ministries let me get it right so i'm going to add that as correspondence that will

[0:02:03] Trustee Elliott: It'll be reflected in the minutes of the meeting.

[0:02:10] Voice 6: Oh, pardon me.

[0:02:14] Voice 6: Okay, I can't find it now.

[0:02:19] Voice 6: So 13.

[0:02:20] Voice 6: Pardon me?

[0:02:21] Voice 6: Yeah.

[0:02:36] Voice 6: There's a couple of chairs down there.

[0:02:38] Voice 6: There we go.

[0:02:40] Voice 6: Okay.

[0:02:45] Voice 6: Let's

[0:02:45] Trustee Elliott: pause a minute and wait for the cello.

[0:02:47] Trustee Elliott: So under correspondence,

[0:02:48] Trustee Elliott: Correspondence will add a letter from Elizabeth May regarding the Southern Gulf Islands Forum

[0:02:55] Trustee Elliott: to Minister Anand regarding marine matters.

[0:03:00] Trustee Elliott: So that's been sent to the LTC, but it's good to have it on the agenda because it relates

[0:03:06] Trustee Elliott: to a lot of the discussion of governance and management of the marine

[0:03:11] Voice 16: area.

[0:03:12] Voice 16: area

[0:03:12] Trustee Elliott: so it's in correspondence um and we can just receive that information 13.2

[0:03:20] Trustee Elliott: okay so if there's no other amendments um we'll take it by general consent

[0:03:26] Trustee Elliott: that the uh agenda be approved and it's go to trustee reports who would like to go first today

[0:03:34] Trustee Elliott: Okay.

[0:03:38] Trustee Evans: I've got a few things to report on. As you're aware, the DIP projects moving along

[0:03:44] Trustee Evans: and they shut down, I think it was late December, and there is an anticipated return to work

[0:03:49] Trustee Evans: for the construction on the DIP on March 23rd. The Committee of the Whole meetings, we've

[0:03:57] Trustee Evans: had six meetings since September, and we continue to work on the Trust Policy Statement draft

[0:04:04] Trustee Evans: draft edits and those have those meetings have moved to every two weeks now until March as we

[0:04:09] Trustee Evans: try to complete this first round of edits we can get to an initial draft and get into first reading

[0:04:18] Trustee Evans: and then initiate the next round of public engagement some of which is included on this

[0:04:23] Trustee Evans: agenda where we've got Claire Fraser joining us so for those that are unaware as part of the

[0:04:29] Trustee Evans: December Trust Council meeting budget cut discussion. The Trust Policy Statement Amendment

[0:04:35] Trustee Evans: project was reviewed and the public engagement piece was particularly looked at as a potential

[0:04:42] Trustee Evans: area to do some budget cuts on. So the impact of that for us in order to maintain the six-month

[0:04:49] Trustee Evans: public engagement period was that first reading is going to happen in conjunction with referral to

[0:04:57] Trustee Evans: other agencies. So the proposed budget cuts will also affect the types of available community

[0:05:04] Trustee Evans: engagement, which is part of what Claire is going to be talking about in this meeting.

[0:05:12] Trustee Evans: Then with the Trust Programs Committee, we met on November 4th and February 18th,

[0:05:18] Trustee Evans: and we've discussed the number of webinars that are currently being created by Islands Trust.

[0:05:22] Trustee Evans: And so as part of that discussion, we decided to combine two of our webinars into one specifically removing invasive species and native plant gardening as those would be practicable to combine into a webinar.

[0:05:38] Trustee Evans: Staff have advised that there are some great speakers who would pair well together and who could make suggestions for native species to replace invasive ones after removal.

[0:05:46] Trustee Evans: The currently confirmed topics for webinars include living with wildfire with a focus

[0:05:51] Trustee Evans: on the northern islands, because we've already had one that focused on the southern islands,

[0:05:55] Trustee Evans: saltwater intrusion and groundwater protection, and then removing invasive species combined

[0:06:01] Trustee Evans: with planting native species.

[0:06:04] Trustee Evans: Staff also provided a briefing regarding the policy and statement amendment policy because

[0:06:10] Trustee Evans: we have a policy on how we amend the policy statement.

[0:06:13] Voice 3: and

[0:06:14] Trustee Evans: so we were reviewing that and we had a few suggested amendments and we will we've requested

[0:06:21] Trustee Evans: that that staff bring it to Trust Council for discussion at a future Trust Council meeting

[0:06:26] Trustee Evans: the COHC so the CAO hiring committee met quite a few times so on the October 22nd as most people

[0:06:37] Trustee Evans: are aware we announced the successful hiring of CAO Ruben Broney and we're very excited to have

[0:06:42] Trustee Evans: pattern on the board. He's a great person. We met four times since October. And in those meetings,

[0:06:51] Trustee Evans: we've discussed revisions to the CEO job profile to clean up language and more succinctly depict

[0:06:57] Trustee Evans: the role and requirement of positions, as well as incorporating the public service agency

[0:07:02] Trustee Evans: recommendations. Our external consultants informed us on progress on the new performance evaluation

[0:07:09] Trustee Evans: valuation policy draft because we didn't have an actual policy on that before and that should be

[0:07:13] Trustee Evans: ready for review at our next meeting which I believe is next week. And then for those of you

[0:07:18] Trustee Evans: that don't know I did step down from my position on the finance and audit committee and Alex Allen

[0:07:25] Trustee Evans: has assumed my roles as my designate from trust programs. It does mean that I can step back into

[0:07:31] Trustee Evans: that at a future date but I was quite ill so and as you'll hear in this meeting I'm still recovering.

[0:07:39] Trustee Evans: so that is most of my updates from the committees that i've been involved in thank you

[0:07:46] Voice 17: well

[0:07:50] Voice 17: we were asked last time i think during town hall to just get on with it so i want to just get on

[0:07:55] Voice 17: uh i did want to just mention that uh we had our first meeting since um rob bottrell has become the

[0:08:04] Voice 17: in MLA. So I have always been part of the Southern Gulf Islands meetings. That's the meetings that

[0:08:12] Voice 17: Elizabeth made just kind of organizing and with the MLA as well. And so we had a great start

[0:08:21] Voice 17: starting meeting and we'll cover some of that in the agenda probably when we talk about the letters

[0:08:25] Voice 17: that Elizabeth May wrote on behalf of the SGI. So anyway that's going although Robert was not

[0:08:33] Voice 17: not present at the meeting because he was speaking in the house or whatever so we're going to meet

[0:08:38] Voice 17: with him more often in the back but I just wanted to let you know that that's also happening

[0:08:42] Voice 17: and it's a great forum where a lot of issues can come forth without any kind of pressure

[0:08:49] Voice 17: and action can come just basically like the letters or some of the outcomes that come from

[0:08:54] Voice 17: all the discussions of the various groups that are involved

[0:08:56] Trustee Elliott: thanks thank you um for my chair's

[0:09:02] Trustee Elliott: report um i'm sure most of you probably received the news um that the chair of uh island's trust

[0:09:10] Trustee Elliott: is stepping down you're welcome so he will be continuing on as a theist trustee um but there

[0:09:18] Trustee Elliott: will be an election at the start of um the trust council quarterly meeting and so that's um causing

[0:09:25] Trustee Elliott: everybody to ask some great questions about leadership and how we work as a council and

[0:09:31] Trustee Elliott: And there's been some really good conversations anyways.

[0:09:35] Trustee Elliott: But I'm personally quite sad to see Peter stepping down.

[0:09:39] Trustee Elliott: And yeah, that executive committee will be thanking him

[0:09:44] Trustee Elliott: and spending some time because he's served for five terms

[0:09:48] Trustee Elliott: as a local trustee and two and a half as chair.

[0:09:53] Trustee Elliott: And it is a challenging job.

[0:09:55] Trustee Elliott: There are lots of different perspectives

[0:09:57] Trustee Elliott: from all the different islands.

[0:09:59] Trustee Elliott: and um yeah he's he's chaired us for a long time so he's going to be missed in that role and he

[0:10:05] Trustee Elliott: chairs the gibraltar local trust committee as well so um it really became evident to me how much

[0:10:12] Trustee Elliott: your off-island chair actually is part of your decision-making body and how important that

[0:10:17] Trustee Elliott: connection is so um i'll be missing him this chair there so um i just wanted to highlight so

[0:10:26] Trustee Elliott: So there is a reconciliation learning group that we don't often report out

[0:10:34] Trustee Elliott: because it's not an official committee.

[0:10:36] Trustee Elliott: So that is comprised of trustees and some staff.

[0:10:41] Trustee Elliott: And we went through a learning module last year with Culturally Committed,

[0:10:47] Trustee Elliott: connecting with indigenous mentors and developing some protocols

[0:10:52] Trustee Elliott: and understanding of how to introduce ourselves

[0:10:54] Trustee Elliott: and some knowledge of of how to speak respectfully about lands that are considered crown lands for

[0:11:02] Trustee Elliott: instance so there's been some good conversations and now we're turning our minds to um what does

[0:11:08] Trustee Elliott: the reconciliation um i don't want to call it a program but all the different initiatives and

[0:11:14] Trustee Elliott: operations and the ways that are um intent to build good relationships with indigenous governing

[0:11:22] Trustee Elliott: bodies and indigenous peoples how does that show up across the organization and so i know staff

[0:11:29] Trustee Elliott: has been working on a draft reconciliation action plan um i don't think the learning group will be

[0:11:35] Trustee Elliott: managing that so much but there's a lot of thought being incubated in terms of how we can develop

[0:11:41] Trustee Elliott: cultural safety in the islands trust um so that as trustees you know go and perhaps participate

[0:11:48] Trustee Elliott: participate in meetings with Indigenous leaders, that we know how to conduct ourselves and

[0:11:53] Trustee Elliott: that the space in which we're making decisions is culturally safe.

[0:11:57] Trustee Elliott: So that's still a live conversation, but those meetings are not public, it's a learning group

[0:12:03] Voice 6: and

[0:12:03] Trustee Elliott: it's really been beneficial.

[0:12:06] Trustee Elliott: I think that's it for my chair's report, I'll keep it short.

[0:12:10] Trustee Elliott: We don't have an electoral area director's report, so I'll open the meeting for Town

[0:12:15] Trustee Elliott: Hall and questions.

[0:12:17] Trustee Elliott: and recognizing there's quite a few people in the room I just want to let you know I've read

[0:12:22] Trustee Elliott: all your letters if they've come in before this morning so if you if you have something to say

[0:12:28] Trustee Elliott: that's sort of new or you want to emphasize please do address the issues not one another

[0:12:34] Trustee Elliott: speak to the local trust committee and keep your comments respectful and on topic so if I could

[0:12:41] Trustee Elliott: just have a show of hands who wants to address or speak up in town hall anyone one two three okay

[0:12:50] Trustee Elliott: just a few of you today okay why don't we start over here

[0:12:54] Voice 3: now it's easier when somebody else

[0:12:57] Voice 3: starts anybody i i haven't been uh my name is shelly henshaw and i live on south pender

[0:13:06] Voice 3: obviously and i haven't been to very many meetings recently so i've kind of lost touch

[0:13:11] Voice 3: but i did read um the materials that were just sent for pursuant to this meeting here

[0:13:17] Voice 3: and i read the apc um minutes and under i think i understand what their recommendations were

[0:13:26] Voice 3: so i'm actually going back and i don't know whether it's appropriate but i wanted to talk

[0:13:30] Voice 3: about the side the side setback okay um and i don't know whether that's appropriate or not but

[0:13:35] Voice 3: Okay.

[0:13:36] Voice 3: All right.

[0:13:37] Voice 3: So I live on, I call them the finger lots.

[0:13:41] Voice 3: They're the really long, narrow lots that are down Southlands that are over the sea.

[0:13:50] Voice 3: And there are a few areas in Southland where there are long, narrow lots.

[0:13:53] Voice 3: and what i understand from the apc um is that they were suggesting we return to um

[0:14:04] Voice 3: the 10 foot setback i don't like that idea at all and it's not that it's like oh well it's your lot

[0:14:17] Voice 3: so you know obviously you don't want it but you know i lived in fort langley and i lived in the

[0:14:23] Voice 3: a house in fort langley and the setback was 10 feet between the properties and you know when i

[0:14:32] Voice 3: go down the stairs in my house in fort langley i can see into the house that is 20 feet away

[0:14:39] Voice 3: and i think that's way way too narrow and i think all across the board it would be a lot easier

[0:14:48] Voice 3: if there was a 20 at least 20 feet side setback between properties now I understand from Gordy

[0:14:57] Voice 3: that most of the lots are squarish and bigger they're not this unusual long what I call finger

[0:15:07] Voice 3: lots and so I think a 20 foot side setback would be easily accommodated and if you had some sort of

[0:15:18] Voice 3: obstruction in your lot wherein it wasn't possible to build with a 20 foot side setback i think that

[0:15:27] Voice 3: is the appropriate um issue to go before um for a hardship review um and explain the situation

[0:15:37] Voice 3: about where to build but you know if you have 40 feet between buildings which i don't really think

[0:15:46] Voice 3: is that big and i you know it seems to me there's a healthier corridor if there was a fire thing

[0:15:53] Voice 3: somebody could get in between with hoses or vehicles whatever um and i do i just think that

[0:16:02] Voice 3: 10 feet side setback is not a good idea the other thing is about if you have 20 feet side setback

[0:16:11] Voice 3: which i would say is the minimum you know wouldn't that affect house size that it might be a deterrent

[0:16:20] Voice 3: to build something really big because you've got to work within the 20 foot side setback

[0:16:26] Voice 3: and i think for all the properties on pender that on south pender which is very very unique

[0:16:32] Voice 3: um that we would be able to accommodate 20 feet side setback and i was told that the reason why

[0:16:41] Voice 3: And maybe I've got this wrong, but that the ABC thought, well, because accessory buildings should be, can be 10 feet from the property line, then we're going to go with the houses being 10 feet as well.

[0:16:55] Voice 3: But I think that's kind of reverse thinking.

[0:16:58] Voice 3: It seems to me the accessory building should be 20 feet from the property line as well.

[0:17:06] Voice 3: That is my view on things for size setbacks.

[0:17:10] Voice 3: thank you and the other thing is i wanted to comment on is that i've practiced law for many

[0:17:16] Voice 3: many years and i did insurance law and i know that there is you know there's always the issue

[0:17:22] Voice 3: about well i'm not conforming to this or that but i understand that there's a way you can write in

[0:17:27] Voice 3: saying that from this period forward setbacks will be x amount but that means that everybody

[0:17:33] Voice 3: beforehand is fine they're safe but usually when issues arise it's the individual um property owner

[0:17:41] Voice 3: and their insurer and we can't possibly have protect all property owners and their insurers

[0:17:51] Voice 3: and our insurance change and all i know is about insurance companies is they're going to deny

[0:17:57] Voice 3: and they're going to deny and they're going to deny they'll find a reason to deny and then

[0:18:01] Voice 3: then ultimately, hopefully, you'll get a payout or whatever.

[0:18:04] Voice 3: But we can't really plan for your insurance companies

[0:18:09] Voice 3: because they vary between homeowners, and their rules change.

[0:18:16] Voice 3: So that's all I have to say.

[0:18:19] Voice 6: Thank you.

[0:18:22] Trustee Evans: And I was going in order here.

[0:18:25] Trustee Evans: There was somebody over here first, but I didn't see whose hand it was.

[0:18:29] Trustee Evans: Yeah, then wrong then.

[0:18:32] Voice 3: We can stand up because we're insured.

[0:18:37] Voice 1: um this is just uh some of the things that are happening now with the apc and the revision of the

[0:18:44] Voice 1: of the um zoning and all that kind of stuff and then two that i have for concern are the 50 foot

[0:18:50] Voice 1: setback from the water and it doesn't affect everybody but i think there's 22 lots at least

[0:18:57] Voice 1: um it does make a difference and uh it does make a difference for insurance and it doesn't

[0:19:03] Voice 1: so you know it was it was set up we built our house 20 years ago and the bylaw we built to

[0:19:11] Voice 1: the bylaw but we're on a peninsula and so we're 25 from three slides because that's the only

[0:19:20] Voice 1: option we have and if something goes wrong that would be really hard to work with so I just wanted

[0:19:26] Voice 1: to put that out and the other is short-term vacation rentals again we've been doing that

[0:19:32] Voice 1: since 2004 and so there's some changes that may happen I know the government now wants us to

[0:19:40] Voice 1: license and that's good that's fine but if you stop us being grandfathered then we can't really

[0:19:50] Voice 1: do that licensing so I think that we need to look at that when you're revising your laws okay

[0:20:07] Voice 13: I was very fortunate as a young child to come to pender island south pender island

[0:20:13] Voice 13: when I was about 10 and uh you know a lot has changed since but what was so precious to me was

[0:20:21] Voice 13: is the environment, the animals,

[0:20:29] Voice 13: even sheep were in range at the time.

[0:20:33] Voice 13: And of course we couldn't have that any longer,

[0:20:37] Voice 13: but there were several sheep farms

[0:20:40] Voice 13: and all of that sort of rural feeling is diminishing

[0:20:46] Voice 13: diminishing uh as uh the population increases um but there there are precious things about our

[0:20:57] Voice 13: our environment about our shorelines um not just for us um and i really think about the future

[0:21:06] Voice 13: because our children and our grandchildren have been able to come here uh really since they were

[0:21:13] Voice 13: infants and visit their my mother who also lived here um and i i want to i want to make sure that

[0:21:27] Voice 13: that wonderful feeling of freedom in nature is maintained on south gender and not just for

[0:21:39] Voice 13: all of our grandchildren and their future children, but for the First Nations youth

[0:21:51] Voice 13: who come here occasionally for some kind of ceremonial purpose, I want them to be able

[0:22:04] Voice 13: to feel that they have a future here and that their children have a future here as well.

[0:22:10] Voice 13: Well, our Wasanich neighbors and friends whose land we're privileged to live on.

[0:22:18] Voice 13: So those are some of my concerns about house sizes and setbacks and so on.

[0:22:26] Voice 13: You know, it may be a little more abstract, but it's very real.

[0:22:33] Voice 13: And I think the reason that all of us came here and then decided to stay was because of the natural environment.

[0:22:46] Voice 13: And I want to make sure that we keep that in mind when we're talking about changes.

[0:22:59] Voice 6: Ron, over here.

[0:23:01] Voice 15: Hello, my name is Ron Henshaw.

[0:23:03] Voice 15: I live on Saltander Island and I didn't, it was a short letter, I didn't submit it this

[0:23:12] Voice 15: morning and I apologize in advance if some people need a little bit of a raise, but it's

[0:23:19] Voice 15: just how I felt this morning and that's what I wrote.

[0:23:22] Voice 15: So it's regarding the, you know, it's regarding the new by-law, proposed by-law and basically

[0:23:34] Voice 15: in spite of the hard work of the trustees, APC, community and staff, this new draft by-law

[0:23:51] Voice 15: is out of sync with what I feel the greater community wants. I am shocked that the option

[0:23:57] Voice 15: of keeping by-law 122 intact is completely missing, especially when it is clear that

[0:24:02] Voice 15: the majority of residents engaged in the process support giving it a chance to work.

[0:24:08] Voice 15: The mandate to fix bylaw 122 was built on a misleading campaign fixated on the false claim

[0:24:14] Voice 15: that it would create legal non-conforming situations. This has been proven untrue.

[0:24:19] Voice 15: Homes built before September 22, 2022 are in fact legally conforming. Problem became clear when the

[0:24:27] Voice 15: leadership role expected from you made no effort to correct this misrepresentation even when it

[0:24:33] Voice 15: was actively perpetuated by the apc whom you appointed instead of standing up for transparency

[0:24:39] Voice 15: and fairness you allow the false narrative to shape the process now you risk becoming exactly

[0:24:45] Voice 15: what you unjustly accused the previous trustees of being leaders who refuse to meaningful

[0:24:51] Voice 15: meaningfully listen and fail to uphold a fair process i expect trustees of our island to

[0:24:58] Voice 15: prioritize the objectives of our OCP and trust mandate before the narrow interest of a small

[0:25:03] Voice 15: special interest group that is focused on maximizing house size and reducing setbacks.

[0:25:09] Voice 15: Please honor what you have promised by listening to the greater community and give Bylaw 122 a

[0:25:15] Voice 15: chance to work. Thank you. Thank you.

[0:25:23] Voice 2: Well, first of all, I think it's, I hope it happens more often,

[0:25:26] Voice 2: but I think it's wonderful when I feel like I'm in full agreement with two hen shaws at the same

[0:25:30] Voice 2: meeting so that's great um i uh i um i really just wanted this point to confirm that there's

[0:25:41] Voice 2: an opportunity to speak to the agenda item later you've got the town hall now or is this the only

[0:25:46] Voice 2: time this

[0:25:46] Trustee Elliott: is the town hall and then there's another town hall after we do conduct the

[0:25:50] Trustee Elliott: business but if you want to speak to anything

[0:25:51] Voice 2: what would be the time what would be the most

[0:25:54] Voice 2: efficacious time to speak to draft bylaw 129 no no okay okay so my printer did work

[0:26:08] Voice 2: um i thought it was best to just to write it um my comments are it's it's mind-numbing to reflect

[0:26:18] Voice 2: on the stumbling and fumbling efforts of the trustees for the last two and a half years to

[0:26:22] Voice 2: upend bylaw 122 and its policies to preserve property rights and the unique and rural character

[0:26:28] Voice 2: of south pender it's equally concerning the trustees don't demonstrate an understanding

[0:26:34] Voice 2: of local government law and as such seem determined to undertake a blanket increase

[0:26:40] Voice 2: in house sizes and setback reductions as plausibly the only means to ensure some homes are not

[0:26:47] Voice 2: legally non-conforming in fact i would say this is just a really a ruse to justify large houses

[0:26:53] Voice 2: and small setbacks the paranoid fixation by the trustees okay excuse me if

[0:26:59] Trustee Elliott: you can refrain from

[0:27:01] Trustee Elliott: characterizing people and their intentions that is inappropriate and not respectful fine so you

[0:27:07] Trustee Elliott: can state your objections to process to the policy to the

[0:27:13] Trustee Elliott: business matters that happen

[0:27:14] Trustee Elliott: the

[0:27:15] Voice 2: fixation by the trustees and the apc on the efficacy of the legal conforming language

[0:27:21] Voice 2: you're doing it again

[0:27:23] Trustee Evans: can you

[0:27:24] Trustee Evans: allow the trustees

[0:27:26] Voice 2: to do it

[0:27:27] Voice 2: I am it's a fixation

[0:27:29] Voice 2: we've been on this since 2022

[0:27:32] Voice 2: sir

[0:27:33] Trustee Elliott: if you cannot

[0:27:33] Trustee Elliott: respectfully speak to the local trust

[0:27:36] Trustee Elliott: committee then you don't have a place

[0:27:38] Trustee Elliott: in this forum so speak respectfully

[0:27:40] Trustee Elliott: to all members

[0:27:42] Trustee Elliott: community members and trustees thank you

[0:27:47] Voice 2: the facts stand for themselves

[0:27:49] Voice 2: I guess

[0:27:51] Voice 2: I was going to say it's very difficult to move forward

[0:27:53] Voice 2: as a community when the trustees and the APC cast doubt on the basic facts and established

[0:28:00] Voice 2: legal precedents about what legal non-conforming means. So that's a fact. The other fact is the

[0:28:07] Voice 2: trustees have been trying to overturn bylaw 122 since the very beginning of their term

[0:28:11] Voice 2: and without any rational reason. They showed their true intentions when they voted to rescind the

[0:28:17] Voice 2: bylaw on June 3, 2023.

[0:28:20] Trustee Evans: I'm going to call a point of order on fact here.

[0:28:22] Voice 2: No, sorry.

[0:28:24] Trustee Evans: I'm going to

[0:28:24] Trustee Evans: call a point of order on fact. Okay, what's the point of order or what's the erroneous fact? The

[0:28:32] Trustee Evans: erroneous fact as being presented during that meeting, we had received advice from staff that

[0:28:37] Trustee Evans: the only way to continue the conversation was to rescind it, which we did, on the premise that we

[0:28:42] Trustee Evans: we could purely continue the conversation and open a discussion on how to bring the community

[0:28:47] Trustee Evans: together. We were then told that was incorrect and we were told correct process to move forward

[0:28:52] Trustee Evans: which we have done and we have stood by the fact that we are here to continue the conversation to

[0:29:00] Trustee Evans: reach a place where the community comes together not and it has never been mine and I do not believe

[0:29:05] Trustee Evans: It has ever been DAG's position to overturn 122 and not continue the conversation.

[0:29:12] Voice 4: That is incorrect.

[0:29:13] Trustee Evans: And I would ask you to refrain from stating that aspect because that is incorrect.

[0:29:17] Trustee Evans: And at every meeting, we've said we are here to continue the conversation, to find a place

[0:29:22] Trustee Evans: where everyone can live with a solution.

[0:29:25] Trustee Evans: Okay.

[0:29:25] Voice 2: I don't know what advice you got from staff, but the fact is I was in the meeting.

[0:29:29] Trustee Elliott: There's going to be a debate back and forth between members of the public and trustees.

[0:29:33] Trustee Elliott: Please just state your facts and your opinions.

[0:29:36] Voice 10: That's what I'm doing.

[0:29:37] Trustee Elliott: And we recognize that at the June 3rd meeting,

[0:29:42] Trustee Elliott: there was an mistake and it was corrected.

[0:29:46] Voice 2: Well, the clear perception by people in the room

[0:29:48] Voice 2: was that the trustees had made up their minds on the bylaw.

[0:29:54] Voice 2: And I hope it's changed.

[0:29:56] Voice 2: I would really hope it's changed,

[0:29:58] Voice 2: especially since there's been a majority of...

[0:30:00] Voice 2: letters over the last year in support of bylaw 122 you did after all say you want to listen to

[0:30:05] Voice 2: the community that was that was what you wrote and I and I do hope that's true um

[0:30:15] Voice 2: the hand-picked APC has been largely helpful to the trustees again setbacks it

[0:30:21] Trustee Elliott: was not hand-picked

[0:30:22] Trustee Elliott: well

[0:30:23] Voice 2: how how did it please

[0:30:24] Trustee Elliott: refrain from commentary on intentions of your LTC elected officials and

[0:30:32] Trustee Elliott: and staff we are here to serve and we ask for respect as you speak about the issues not

[0:30:39] Trustee Elliott: personalities okay

[0:30:41] Voice 2: but for the record for the record i was on the apc at one point in time

[0:30:44] Voice 2: but i was forced off by these trustees okay again

[0:30:48] Voice 2: we cannot discuss that

[0:30:49] Trustee Evans: as a closed meeting

[0:30:50] Trustee Evans: discussion and

[0:30:51] Voice 2: bringing it to the open let's let's make let's make it not the

[0:30:54] Voice 2: privilege of

[0:30:56] Trustee Elliott: speaking to this group i'm sorry we're going to move on thank you

[0:31:00] Voice 2: i'll speak at the end of the

[0:31:01] Voice 2: meeting next

[0:31:02] Trustee Elliott: person is paul

[0:31:03] Voice 3: paul peter

[0:31:05] Voice 9: please thank you um in spite of uh this medicine

[0:31:10] Voice 9: so my two concerns with bylaw 129 are decreased in the sidewalk setback and the increase in the

[0:31:25] Voice 9: house size and um i've listened i've been to every meeting i've listened carefully to the

[0:31:31] Voice 9: ideas that have been put forward. I have not to this point heard any clear explanation

[0:31:39] Voice 9: why the current bylaw 122 is problematic. I have not heard that and in my view, to quote

[0:31:52] former US

[0:31:54] Voice 9: President Jimmy Carter, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And to me, that's where

[0:32:01] Voice 9: we're at here. We have a clear bylaw 122 which responds to our OCP

[0:32:11] Voice 9: goals and directives and policy and the sideline setback reduction and the house size increase

[0:32:24] Voice 9: increase, take us further away from those goals than what's here already. And in my view, it would

[0:32:31] be

[0:32:31] Voice 9: contrary to our OCP goals to move forward with reduced side plot setbacks and increased health

[0:32:41] Voice 9: size. I won't comment any further on side lot setbacks because I think Shelley Henshaw did a

[0:32:49] Voice 9: a really good job in explaining the reasons. I agree 100% with that. In terms of house size,

[0:32:58] Voice 9: we have a clear mechanism of variance to address particular issues. And to me, that's the

[0:33:05] Voice 9: mechanism by which if there is a hardship that can be addressed. And I think it's important that

[0:33:14] Voice 9: the trustees weigh very carefully what rationale you would use to erode our OCP goals with

[0:33:26] Voice 9: reduced setbacks and increased house size. Thank you.

[0:33:29] Voice 6: Thank you.

[0:33:30] Voice 6: Okay.

[0:33:32] Voice 10: Thank you. I'm very moved by most of the comments, all the comments. I think we're at a tipping

[0:33:39] Voice 10: point here in a way of what kind of vision we have for the future of this

[0:33:43] Voice 10: island. Do we have a vision where our values match the intentions and goals of

[0:33:50] the OCP

[0:33:50] Voice 10: or do we want to drift towards big houses close together that have a

[0:33:55] Voice 10: feeling of suburbia? Are we rural or are we suburban? In my heart this is rural.

[0:34:04] This is intended to be ruled. Everything in our legislation and the current zoning, 5.1.1.2.2, says exactly that.

[0:34:15] Close to nature, not so close to our immediate neighbors.

[0:34:18] Voice 10: And I think if we drift the other way, the different vision is long after anybody...

[0:34:23] Trustee Evans: Excuse me, I'm quite a privilege. Can we stop the side conversation, please?

[0:34:26] Trustee Evans: It's very difficult to hear what the other person is saying.

[0:34:28] Trustee Evans: Long

[0:34:28] Voice 10: afterward, probably even just 10 years from now, let's say 20 years from now, what would be the future of this island?

[0:34:34] Voice 10: and if the APC's recommendation goes forward,

[0:34:38] Voice 10: it would not look anything like this.

[0:34:40] Voice 10: We'd probably lose X percent of the trees,

[0:34:43] Voice 10: the habitat that goes with it,

[0:34:45] Voice 10: the privacy that goes with it.

[0:34:47] Voice 10: All of those values are very important

[0:34:49] Voice 10: to each and every one of us.

[0:34:51] Voice 10: To take away that from you,

[0:34:53] Voice 10: to take away those values from you,

[0:34:55] Voice 10: to take them away from nature,

[0:34:57] Voice 10: and as Paul and Monica have been saying

[0:34:59] Voice 10: from the First Nations,

[0:35:00] Voice 10: whose primacy here is very, very important to be recognized,

[0:35:05] Voice 10: I think would be a big mistake.

[0:35:06] Voice 10: Thank you very much.

[0:35:11] Voice 20: Hi, my name is Donna Spalding,

[0:35:13] Voice 20: and I happen to be a member of the APC,

[0:35:15] Voice 20: and I'd like to speak to the idea of the 10-foot setbacks.

[0:35:18] Voice 20: So in reality, it doesn't matter if you have 10 feet

[0:35:22] Voice 20: or if you have 20 feet,

[0:35:23] Voice 20: because right now people can clear right to the lot line,

[0:35:28] Voice 20: and you've lost your privacy,

[0:35:30] Voice 20: see you've lost everything else and all of our speak to the ltc sorry and all of the um you know

[0:35:38] Voice 20: within 10 feet you can have your auxiliary buildings and we're experiencing that people

[0:35:44] Voice 20: are clearing right to the lot line and that if we can find a way around that then i would encourage

[0:35:53] Voice 20: everybody here including the ltc to try and figure that one out this is not the idea is not

[0:36:00] Voice 20: Not to, you know, make it privacy any less.

[0:36:03] Voice 20: If you have 10 feet here and 10 feet next door, then getting your fire down, surfaces down the middle isn't going to be any better than if you have 20 feet in between.

[0:36:16] Voice 20: But the point is, we don't have any control over what happens in those 20 feet that separates one lot from another lot.

[0:36:28] Voice 20: If we can figure that out, I think we would go a long ways to addressing the concerns

[0:36:33] Voice 20: of people in this room.

[0:36:34] Voice 20: Thank you.

[0:36:37] Voice 6: Yes, sir.

[0:36:38] Voice 11: Hi.

[0:36:39] Voice 11: John Kerherchuk, Southlands Road.

[0:36:41] Voice 11: Southlands Road.

[0:36:45] Voice 11: I'm actually picking up on some comments that were made at the prior meeting by Toby and

[0:36:49] Voice 11: and as well as .

[0:36:53] Voice 11: There seems to be a sort of either we

[0:37:00] Voice 11: revert to the way things were, thinking

[0:37:03] Voice 11: that the bylaws that were set out in 2016

[0:37:06] Voice 11: are still appropriate, or we look

[0:37:08] Voice 11: at the ways in which they are no longer appropriate

[0:37:12] Voice 11: and find adaptations for it.

[0:37:14] Voice 11: And so I was encouraged when I heard at the last meeting

[0:37:19] Voice 11: trustee Elliott mentioned looking at potentially development permit areas.

[0:37:27] Voice 11: Trustee Polk talked about being aghast at wholesale lot clearing, clear cutting.

[0:37:35] Voice 11: And what I don't see in the recommendations that have been put forward or in the discussion so far

[0:37:41] Voice 11: is that there are tools that are within your abilities to affect those. So for

[0:37:49] Voice 11: example the issue of there being inconsistencies relative to things like

[0:37:56] Voice 11: setbacks for accessory buildings and so if you can have it can't have a dwelling

[0:38:04] Voice 11: closer than 20 feet from the sideline how can you build a big garage 10 feet

[0:38:08] Voice 11: from from the sideline well it's easy enough to alter the zoning such that uh a pump shack or or

[0:38:17] Voice 11: uh you know a very minor accessory building can still be sited closer to the property line but

[0:38:23] Voice 11: you can say a garage can't be closer than 20 feet that's within your power to do that as an example

[0:38:29] Voice 11: So, with regard to clear cutting and setbacks, so you can, it's easily within your abilities to say that within the setback area, let's assume it's 10 feet and 20 feet, that there's no pre-clearing without an approved building permit.

[0:38:51] Voice 11: and that building permit application needs to have the trees all identified and you can you

[0:38:57] Voice 11: can say that there will be no clearing unless there's some extraneous situation so uh it isn't

[0:39:04] Voice 11: an all or nothing um kind of a discussion you have the abilities to to reflect those sorts of

[0:39:12] Voice 11: things in in the regulations which better support the official community plan so

[0:39:21] Trustee Elliott: it's really not appropriate this is their town hall can you do it can you make a note and do

[0:39:28] Trustee Elliott: it during our own anyone else um addressing the local trust committee yes um

[0:39:35] Voice 3: i'd like to first

[0:39:36] Voice 3: ask the planner for some information we

[0:39:40] Trustee Elliott: can ask the ltc and we'll ask the planner

[0:39:46] Voice 3: Where does the staff find support for the proposition that the new bylaw did not create

[0:39:56] Voice 3: non-conforming properties?

[0:39:58] Voice 3: Where is the support for that?

[0:40:01] Voice 3: Because that has been argued all the way along the line.

[0:40:05] Voice 3: So what is the support for that proposition?

[0:40:11] Voice 3: We've

[0:40:11] Trustee Elliott: been through this quite a few times.

[0:40:16] Trustee Elliott: Did you see the FAQ on this matter?

[0:40:21] Trustee Elliott: Yes, and I have to confess, I don't understand it.

[0:40:24] Trustee Elliott: Okay.

[0:40:24] Trustee Elliott: So we need more clarity on the grounds for legal

[0:40:29] Voice 3: conforming or

[0:40:30] Trustee Elliott: non-conforming.

[0:40:32] Trustee Elliott: Can we address that during that part of the meeting?

[0:40:37] Trustee Elliott: Well, I

[0:40:39] Voice 3: think it actually does come into this part of the meeting as well, because one of

[0:40:45] Voice 3: the reasons for the APC's two-tier recommendation, so far as I can see, is that there are a substantial

[0:40:57] Voice 3: number of now non-conforming properties that could be completely rendered conforming by

[0:41:04] Voice 3: by adopting their two tier recommendation.

[0:41:08] Voice 3: That is that the older homes be bound

[0:41:11] Voice 3: by the previous bylaw requirements

[0:41:16] Voice 3: and that any new homes going forward

[0:41:19] Voice 3: be bound by the new bylaw requirements.

[0:41:23] Voice 3: And that older homes be permitted to renovate

[0:41:27] Voice 3: and be rebuilt up to their previous size.

[0:41:31] Voice 3: that is correct larger if larger than the present bylaw permits that is correct but if smaller than

[0:41:41] Voice 3: the present bylaw permits they would only be allowed to renovate or rebuild up to the present

[0:41:47] Voice 3: bylaw in other words if i have a home that is 500 feet larger than the present bylaw and it burns

[0:41:57] Voice 3: down I could rebuild it up to that 500 foot limit but not beyond if I have a

[0:42:04] Voice 3: home an older home that is 500 feet smaller than the current bylaws I could

[0:42:11] Voice 3: rebuild it but only up to the current bylaw limits and not to the older bylaw

[0:42:18] Voice 3: limits yep yes is that correct yep okay I don't see that in the staff

[0:42:25] Voice 3: report to um to this meeting so

[0:42:31] Trustee Elliott: we've had several conversations about the vanderstock deal did

[0:42:35] Trustee Elliott: clarify the last meeting that the only legal non-conformity that was created by bylaw 122

[0:42:42] Trustee Elliott: was regarding building height that's right and that's what i want clarified yeah because i

[0:42:48] Voice 3: believe that there were a whole swath of holes that were rendered legally non-conforming

[0:42:52] Voice 3: And I believe that the saving that is the renovating and rebuilding clauses that are cited as support for the supposed legality of those homes that don't comply with the new bylaw, because they're too big, it couldn't be, they couldn't be built now on bare land, because they're too big, they don't comply.

[0:43:14] Voice 3: line they're wrongly situated they're over height and they're whatever i think those homes are

[0:43:23] Voice 3: actually non-conforming in the sense that they could not be rebuilt now no no sorry they could

[0:43:29] Voice 3: not be built on bare land now because the bylaw doesn't allow that to take place they're too big

[0:43:36] Voice 3: if i had a blank piece of property and i wanted to build a home that is larger than the present

[0:43:41] Voice 3: bylaw i couldn't do it unless i

[0:43:44] Voice 3: had a variance you could yes that is the purpose of creating

[0:43:46] Voice 19: creating

[0:43:47] Voice 3: bylaws with in a sense that the home that is currently larger than the

[0:43:52] Voice 3: present bylaw

[0:43:54] Voice 3: would allow any home that is larger than that it's not conforming to the present bylaw that's

[0:44:01] Voice 3: plain english that's all it is it's plain english it's not a term of art it's nothing more than it

[0:44:07] Voice 21: sounds like a professional opinion that the only situation created by the adoption of bylaw 122

[0:44:14] Voice 21: in terms of legal non-conformity is in terms of height i understand that madam chair but i want

[0:44:21] Voice 3: to know what's the support for that opinion where does that come from

[0:44:26] Trustee Elliott: is is there a court decision

[0:44:28] Trustee Elliott: to that if the local government act does back this up and we can look that up and cite it for you

[0:44:37] Voice 3: sure because so far as i can tell the local government act and the saving clauses in the

[0:44:43] Voice 3: bylaw only allow you to renovate or rebuild. We don't say anything at all about the status of your

[0:44:48] Voice 3: home as being conforming or non-conforming. We're going to

[0:44:54] Trustee Elliott: have this discussion later.

[0:44:56] Trustee Elliott: Thanks for asking for clarity. It's definitely been a challenging topic for this community,

[0:45:03] Trustee Elliott: for everyone to get their heads around. I'm sorry, back there again?

[0:45:11] Voice 10: Well, I was going to say, your house burned down, and you think you could only go through

[0:45:17] Voice 10: certain size you can always get another building permit for extensions or anything increasing the

[0:45:22] Voice 10: size so if you want to make it larger than what it has a single if you're constraining 500 feet

[0:45:31] Voice 10: so any

[0:45:37] Trustee Elliott: new topics concerns points of view we have heard you once if you'd like to speak but

[0:45:45] Trustee Elliott: but I'll go to first speakers first.

[0:45:48] Voice 16: I'll stand up chair

[0:45:49] Voice 8: because I can't see you.

[0:45:54] Voice 8: Wordy Duncan, lots of issues here today.

[0:46:00] Voice 8: I guess I would like to remind everybody that

[0:46:05] Voice 8: as far as the setbacks,

[0:46:07] Voice 8: 80% of those properties already have it

[0:46:10] Voice 8: and that 10 foot setback is enshrined

[0:46:14] Voice 8: with the exception clause there, so they're going to be at 10 feet

[0:46:18] Voice 8: forever and a day. So we're really talking about

[0:46:21] Voice 8: 20% or the undeveloped properties that

[0:46:28] Voice 8: will be affected or

[0:46:30] Voice 8: could have a 20 foot setback. We're not going

[0:46:34] Voice 8: back and saying properties that are already built

[0:46:37] Voice 8: must go to 20 feet, so that's never going to happen. The other

[0:46:42] Voice 8: thing in conjunction with that 10 foot we can build and whether you like it or not we can build

[0:46:48] Voice 8: a 1500 foot two-story three carport garage on a 10 foot property but why would we deny

[0:46:56] Voice 8: a 1200 foot or a 1500 foot square house being the same property line again for the 20 percent

[0:47:06] Voice 8: For the 20%, it's not for the whole need to keep that in mind.

[0:47:13] Voice 8: And the other thing, I've got a couple of other items here.

[0:47:19] Voice 8: I don't want to take too long now.

[0:47:20] Voice 8: But, you know, in going forward with 129, there's another definition that was put into the 122, and it's called basement floor area.

[0:47:32] Voice 8: It doesn't refer to anything.

[0:47:35] Voice 8: why have we got that in there what's it there for another one so

[0:47:41] Trustee Elliott: just to clarify

[0:47:42] Trustee Elliott: you're asking in the staff report for today or in the APC minutes

[0:47:46] Voice 8: I'm just

[0:47:48] Voice 8: suggesting that that definition that's included in the existing bylaw okay

[0:47:55] Voice 8: doesn't service any part of the bylaws not referred to so why is it there I

[0:48:02] Voice 8: believe it should be removed. Another

[0:48:04] Voice 8: quick thing about administration, we talked about conformity

[0:48:09] Voice 8: in 2.2 and we talked about conformity of use as it relates to LGA 528. Should there not also

[0:48:19] Voice 8: be something in that conformity under the conformity section referring to LGA 529 which

[0:48:29] Voice 8: which is siting in size. Right now it just refers to use and we know this is a big issue

[0:48:38] Voice 8: right now with siting in size versus use and as it relates to conforming and non-conforming.

[0:48:49] Voice 8: I also might be a surprise to you, but I was an APC member and our whole objective here

[0:48:56] Voice 8: with our recommendations to try and come up with a formula that would maybe not make everybody

[0:49:05] Voice 8: but at least kind of go down the middle and and satisfy the requirements non-conforming

[0:49:15] Voice 8: i don't even want to use the term legal non-conforming because we know what that does

[0:49:21] Voice 8: we've got a three-page fact sheet, or two-page fact sheet on legal non-conforming, and it's

[0:49:31] Voice 8: going to be modified again, as I understand it. So it obviously is confusing. Let's just

[0:49:35] Voice 8: deal with non-conforming. If a house doesn't meet the current standard, it's non-conforming.

[0:49:41] Voice 8: Simple as that. Thank you.

[0:49:43] Trustee Elliott: Thank you. First

[0:49:46] Trustee Elliott: -time speakers, anyone else for a first time? And then we'll go to second-time

[0:49:50] Trustee Elliott: speakers you had your hand thank

[0:49:51] Voice 2: you very much appreciate that um just just on the

[0:49:56] Voice 2: first of all a question of clarification so the the current bylaw does have a provision in there

[0:50:02] Voice 2: 5.1.6 i believe it is that has this provision and if your house does burn down you can build it to

[0:50:09] Voice 2: the same size again in the draft bylaw is was would that be struck out from but from the draft

[0:50:14] Voice 2: by law because i do think it would still remain is that right so

[0:50:19] Trustee Elliott: alternative planners doctor who

[0:50:20] Trustee Elliott: we've had a conversation about tables and removing that clause and what would provide more clarity

[0:50:24] Voice 21: so thank you so um right now the draft bylaw 129 um does not make any amendments to the rural

[0:50:32] Voice 21: residential or forestry regulations in terms of floor area that's something that staff is still

[0:50:38] Voice 21: looking for direction from the ltc so as the draft bylaw stands right now it actually doesn't um

[0:50:45] Voice 21: remove or make any changes so we're looking at

[0:50:47] Trustee Elliott: options on page 45 there are these really

[0:50:50] Voice 2: proposed i guess it wasn't so much meaning but i wasn't trying to get into the question about

[0:50:54] Voice 2: what the house size is what the debate about house sizes might be but just that the the intent

[0:50:59] Voice 2: behind that provision was and i'll give you an example um prior there of course people say well

[0:51:06] Voice 2: we should go back to the 2016 bylaw and everything will be fine but there was homes built before

[0:51:11] Voice 2: the 2016 bylaw that are larger than the maximums provided for in the 2016 bylaw and so those homes

[0:51:19] Voice 2: would be legal non-conforming prior to the language that i just referenced 5.1.6

[0:51:25] Voice 2: so my point is is that removing that language and thinking that you're going to if you were

[0:51:32] Voice 2: to choose to reinstate to the 2016 you're not solving the problem if you truly want to have

[0:51:36] Voice 2: of legal, do you truly want to avoid issues of legal conformity? And so that's why I would urge

[0:51:42] Voice 2: you, no matter what you do, is to please not remove that. Because I think it provides comfort

[0:51:48] Voice 2: for people that have a home that wouldn't even comply with the 2016 house sizes. And I mean,

[0:51:56] Voice 2: I don't want to get into the debate about the legal soundness of that clause, but I would echo

[0:52:02] Voice 2: quote your your faq and and you know you're you've got some smart lawyers that you have on your

[0:52:09] Voice 2: at your disposal it does seem certainly i deal with bylaws every day in many different jurisdictions

[0:52:15] Voice 2: and the language that we're referring to here is not uncommon in terms of what i see in other

[0:52:20] Voice 2: jurisdictions the city of vancouver coquitlam etc etc where it provides that notwithstanding

[0:52:25] Voice 2: the bylaw says you can't do something despite or despite the bylaw saying you may or may not do

[0:52:30] Voice 2: something there's a subsequent clause that says you can do that under certain conditions so i think

[0:52:35] Voice 2: that you know the the there's a well-established pattern or principle of allowing language like

[0:52:41] Voice 2: this to provide um to to provide clarity for a situation such as what we're talking about here

[0:52:49] Voice 2: um the other thing i would just offer about setbacks is uh like i do think just from an

[0:52:59] Voice 2: issue of property valuation. I think setbacks, I think some people think that the bylaw 122 by

[0:53:10] Voice 2: going from a 10 to a 20 foot setback was somehow eroding their property values. But I would say

[0:53:15] Voice 2: it's quite the contrary, that it actually is enhancing property values. And if you look at,

[0:53:21] Voice 2: and I've talked to realtors, I've talked to appraisers on this, self-bender properties have

[0:53:26] Voice 2: have usually traded a premium relative to other areas on some of the

[0:53:31] Voice 2: islands because of the sense of openness in the rural nature of the

[0:53:35] Voice 2: properties.

[0:53:38] Voice 2: And, you know, there's many examples.

[0:53:40] Voice 2: I guess I would say, first off, if somebody was building a property,

[0:53:45] Voice 2: somebody, your neighbor was building a house 10 feet from your property

[0:53:49] Voice 2: line, it was a large house.

[0:53:51] Voice 2: Would that have a positive or negative impact on your own property's

[0:53:54] Voice 2: values?

[0:53:55] Voice 2: I would suggest, well, I won't opine on that, but I just think you should consider that.

[0:53:59] Voice 2: And the last thing, sometimes examples are the best way to illustrate a point, is if

[0:54:05] Voice 2: you look at neighborhoods such as Southlands in South Vancouver, one of the things, and

[0:54:10] Voice 2: it's got large homes, sure it does, it's got much larger homes than what we're talking

[0:54:13] Voice 2: about here, but so does other parts of Vancouver.

[0:54:16] Voice 2: But what makes it such a premium place to live is because of its semi-rural character

[0:54:23] Voice 2: And the fact that there's substantial separation between homes, there's no homes 10 feet away from each other. People pay a premium for that to live in an area where they've got lots and lots of horizontal separation.

[0:54:37] Voice 2: So, you know, I just when I was looking at this back when I was in your shoes, one of my criteria was saying, how do we enhance property values?

[0:54:45] Voice 2: And that, you know,

[0:54:47] Voice 2: there's there's it's I just really ask you to think about that when you're when you're making a decision on this, on the setback issue.

[0:54:54] Voice 2: Thank you.

[0:54:57] Voice 3: Second time. Yeah.

[0:54:58] Voice 3: First of all, I want to say this, but I really wanted to thank the APC for all their hard work, because I know they're spending time, a lot of time.

[0:55:07] Voice 3: and it's a pretty tough project that they're on so i appreciate all the effort you've made

[0:55:13] Voice 3: um i hope people don't come to pender island to enhance property value and flip it that to me is

[0:55:20] Voice 3: not why we're here um and thirdly um lordy can you oh sorry to i'm speaking to you guys

[0:55:28] Voice 3: yeah

[0:55:29] Voice 6: just if you wanted to make sure

[0:55:35] Voice 3: but going forward when i talk about like i would like to see at least 20 foot on side seven that

[0:55:42] Voice 3: is going forward

[0:55:43] Voice 6: that

[0:55:45] Voice 3: is obviously there you know we're not gonna houses are not going to shrink or

[0:55:49] Voice 3: whatever so it's going forward and i know we have a lot of old colleges and cabins on pender island

[0:55:57] Voice 3: so i'm thinking of moving in time what will this what will tender look like so that that's

[0:56:04] Voice 3: and one small point we've always every single meeting comes up um you know non-conforming

[0:56:12] Voice 3: and all the issues and fears that go with that why can't we have something in the bylaw like

[0:56:18] Voice 3: this is when you spend some money and get some professional writing opinion to to um save us

[0:56:25] Voice 3: from that put the proper language in the bylaw so that everybody building up to let's just say

[0:56:32] Voice 3: things might change in the next month but up to now everything's you know fine going forward it's

[0:56:38] Voice 3: going to be like this but i think it would be worth spending the money to get that written in

[0:56:44] Voice 3: the bylaw i

[0:56:45] Trustee Elliott: will note that there is an option to seek legal counsel for um yeah so we'll get into

[0:56:51] Trustee Elliott: to that discussion thank you thank you and i went to paul petrie uh no hold on donna's next oh sorry

[0:56:58] Trustee Elliott: did i miss donna and then paul no no okay uh

[0:57:03] Voice 9: thank you two things um one is with respect to

[0:57:07] Voice 9: um the setback only affecting uh properties that are not developed that are undeveloped now

[0:57:16] Voice 9: that would also affect properties where an existing dwelling is taken down and a new dwelling

[0:57:25] is put up so it will affect

[0:57:28] Voice 9: properties more generally in the long term small clarification

[0:57:32] Voice 9: at least that's my understanding so I hope that's correct the second thing is

[0:57:38] I fully accept the staff's opinion about legal non-conforming. I think it's clear. I think it's

[0:57:50] Voice 9: consistent with our OCP and consistent with the Local Government Act.

[0:57:56] Voice 9: And there continues to be misunderstanding. There continues to be confusion.

[0:58:01] Voice 9: fusion. I would ask the trustees here, because I haven't yet heard from you on this, that you

[0:58:10] Voice 9: accept the trust planner's opinion that there are no legal non-conforming properties on self-tender

[0:58:19] Voice 9: with respect to house size and setback. I think that clarification from the trustees would be

[0:58:25] Voice 9: very helpful thank you

[0:58:26] Voice 6: okay so yes two more of them uh

[0:58:33] Voice 10: we've heard a question about if somebody

[0:58:37] Voice 10: built a big house next to you would it increase your values certainly would because you'd see

[0:58:42] Voice 10: your next assessment is an improvement of land values and when there's a big house built

[0:58:51] Voice 10: It's a land

[0:58:52] Voice 10: value, it's a monetary thing.

[0:58:54] Voice 10: The other value is you value your privacy, you value your overlook or outlook or view,

[0:59:01] you value

[0:59:02] Voice 10: the greens around you.

[0:59:04] Voice 10: So the livability would, in my opinion, I think that's the point you're trying to make,

[0:59:09] would go way the heck

[0:59:10] Voice 10: down with a very big house and built right 10 feet away on the

[0:59:13] Voice 10: other side of the concrete line.

[0:59:14] Voice 10: And so there is a distinction between monetary value

[0:59:18] Voice 10: and the other kind of values we're trying to uphold

[0:59:20] Voice 10: that are, again, in our OCMP.

[0:59:23] Voice 10: Thank you very much.

[0:59:24] Voice 10: Thank you.

[0:59:26] Voice 11: I was just going to reiterate the point.

[0:59:28] Voice 11: I've heard for five and a half years

[0:59:32] Voice 11: that the bylaws only affect 20% of the properties

[0:59:36] Voice 11: that haven't been built on.

[0:59:39] Voice 11: And it is a matter of fact that any property,

[0:59:42] Voice 11: regardless of whether it has a dwelling on it or not,

[0:59:44] Voice 11: is an opportunity for redevelopment and current drama pressures are such that uh a large lot with

[0:59:51] Voice 11: a small um dwelling on it is a perfect opportunity for someone to redevelop so

[1:00:00] Voice 11: narrative needs to be put in the proper light because it isn't in fact in every

[1:00:06] Voice 11: property can be redeveloped.

[1:00:09] Voice 6: Thank you. I want

[1:00:14] Voice 3: to speak in support of the 10-foot

[1:00:16] Voice 3: setback. I'm sensitive to all the points that are being raised here in support of

[1:00:22] Voice 3: a larger setback but it seems to me that if you live on a narrow lot, I'm sorry, if

[1:00:27] Voice 3: you live on a narrow lot and your neighbor lives on a narrow lot you've

[1:00:30] Voice 3: got a narrow building window and if you really want to preserve your privacy you put up a fence

[1:00:35] Voice 3: and you plant a hedge and there's nothing wrong with that. I also want to speak in support of the

[1:00:41] Voice 3: house sizes that are being proposed by the APC. These are house sizes that are proposed that are

[1:00:47] Voice 3: smaller than the ones in 122. They're sorry larger than the ones in 122 and they're smaller

[1:00:55] Voice 3: than the ones that apply before they are a compromise and I think that's something that's

[1:01:03] Voice 3: a value in itself that is compromise we need to be able to compromise and as for what the majority

[1:01:11] Voice 3: feeling might be well it depends on the composition of the group that you've got if you have people

[1:01:16] Voice 3: who are engaged in letter writing campaigns or meeting something as it used to be called and I'm

[1:01:21] Voice 3: not saying that's happening here but if that's the case then you're listening to the majority

[1:01:25] Voice 3: of the people who are literating or present at the meeting.

[1:01:31] Voice 3: Majority is pretty hard to determine

[1:01:32] Voice 3: unless you go out and ask everybody.

[1:01:34] Voice 3: And you gotta ask more than just the people in this room.

[1:01:37] Voice 6: An

[1:01:37] Voice 3: election is a good time to ask people what they think,

[1:01:41] Voice 3: but also people who think they are a majority.

[1:01:44] Voice 3: And we all tend to think that, frankly,

[1:01:46] Voice 3: because I hang out with the people who think like me.

[1:01:50] Voice 3: People who think differently from me

[1:01:51] Voice 3: hang out with people who think like them.

[1:01:53] Voice 3: And so we all have a silo.

[1:01:55] Voice 3: So when we talk about the majority wanting this or the majority wanting that, I ask the

[1:02:00] Voice 3: trustees to keep in mind that the majority is not necessarily represented by the people

[1:02:05] Voice 3: who feel strongly enough to pick up a pen and write a letter to you or to come to a

[1:02:09] Voice 3: meeting.

[1:02:10] Voice 3: But there are many, many people who will never do any of those things, but they're here.

[1:02:14] Voice 3: They have a voice, which they may or may not use, but nevertheless, they're voters.

[1:02:20] Voice 3: voters. And there are people who deserve to be represented as well as those people who are

[1:02:25] Voice 3: loudly in support of one or the other side. But at

[1:02:29] Voice 3: the end of the day, I hope that everybody will

[1:02:32] Voice 3: leave this meeting feeling like they've had an opportunity to have their say, that they have

[1:02:37] Voice 3: been respected, that they have offered respect to people who have a different viewpoint. And then at

[1:02:43] Voice 3: the end of the day, they can go home and be happy with their neighbors, happy to live here, and happy

[1:02:48] Voice 3: with the people who live here as well whether they agree with them or not. Thank you.

[1:02:54] Trustee Evans: I was going to

[1:02:55] Trustee Evans: say I'm a multiple-time speaker but I'm just a secondary speaker. Yes we're still going on

[1:03:00] Trustee Elliott: second speakers. Ron Penchoff?

[1:03:05] Voice 15: There you are. I get into a lot of different aspects of the

[1:03:12] Voice 15: community so I speak to a lot of different people from all walks all ranges people that

[1:03:20] Voice 15: I have a sense of where I get my information, my feelings about the community, but as far

[1:03:29] Voice 15: as letter writing campaigns go, it seems like there's the pendulum swings from one group

[1:03:34] Voice 15: to the other.

[1:03:37] Voice 15: I think that because of the divisive nature of this whole issue and the fact that it's

[1:03:43] Voice 15: been going on for years now just to set the registry um with the idea of an island trust

[1:03:53] Voice 15: sanctioned survey within the community to actually find out um what people in the community feel

[1:04:01] Voice 15: about the issues instead of relying on what um different like i was party to you know the end

[1:04:11] Voice 15: of the previous trustees last term and i couldn't frankly go to the meetings because of how abusive

[1:04:17] Voice 15: i felt a certain i'm just saying i understand

[1:04:21] Voice 15: so this is a reason why thank you

[1:04:23] Voice 15: um that had

[1:04:24] Voice 15: an influence on um the direction that the um the community went and um i just like to put it out

[1:04:36] Voice 15: there i was thinking about it after the last meeting but you know if we could just sort of

[1:04:40] Voice 15: like come up with a conversation about what is it that they be called community and do a survey

[1:04:46] Voice 15: even if it's house to house but you know um but it's not those costs sanctioned

[1:04:52] Voice 15: they read wrong he's just talking fast just a thought

[1:04:56] Trustee Elliott: yeah a public process with an equitable

[1:04:59] Trustee Elliott: method of canvassing surveying the

[1:05:02] Voice 2: public okay

[1:05:04] Trustee Elliott: uh yes thank you um

[1:05:08] Voice 2: Yeah, that, you know, it's tough because serving, I mean, of course, we elect trustees to make decisions, right? And not everything is a get it. We did it ourselves on the issue of STVRs. It's a dicey one because we, again, we do elect trustees to try and take a balanced approach. So I won't comment any further on that.

[1:05:29] Voice 2: but uh you know the the last ron's right this has been a topic of of great debate and and frankly

[1:05:39] Voice 2: friction in our community for a long time and and i think we're all tired of it want to move forward

[1:05:44] Voice 2: i i uh myself included and and i um you know there the numbers that were in the 2016 bylaw

[1:05:54] Voice 2: were subjective the numbers that were in our bylaw 122 were subjective you know you're trying to

[1:06:00] Voice 2: So there's not a magical formula for how you come up with these.

[1:06:03] Voice 2: You try and look at what you think are scalability and you look at, you know, the existing built form.

[1:06:09] Voice 2: You try and, you know, there's a number of criteria that come into it.

[1:06:12] Voice 2: I think if we're trying to find a compromise and go forward, my recommend, my suggestion, you know, you have to make the choice is in reading the staff report.

[1:06:21] Voice 2: port, I would say, to my mind, setbacks are even more important than house size for the reasons

[1:06:27] Voice 2: that I made and Shelley and others have made. I would rather see you maintain that 20-foot

[1:06:33] Voice 2: setback between properties. And just for context, if you think about your relationship with a front

[1:06:40] Voice 2: yard setback between a house, it's 116 feet because you've got a 25-foot setback, you've

[1:06:47] Voice 2: You've got a 66 road right away, and then you've got another 25 feet to the house on the other side.

[1:06:52] Voice 2: So that's quite a bit of horizontal separation.

[1:06:55] Voice 2: So the idea that somehow we're comfortable with 20 feet separation between houses side by side, and the noise is generated by everyday living, et cetera.

[1:07:05] Voice 2: To me, we're missing the opportunity.

[1:07:07] Voice 2: It doesn't make sense when we're in a rural community.

[1:07:11] Voice 2: So I would say if we were really to try and find a way to path forward and find some compromises, I would say take the option one, do the extra 500 square feet per home, but keep your 20-foot setback for homes, not for accessory buildings.

[1:07:31] Voice 2: And again, the reason that we had set the 20 feet only to cottages and dwellings is you're not living in your woodshed.

[1:07:39] Voice 2: You're not generating day-to-day noise in your woodshed, maybe if you're chopping wood, but it's not an everyday, all-day-long thing.

[1:07:46] Voice 2: So to me, there was a reason why we set the 10-foot for accessory and the 20-foot for living.

[1:07:54] Voice 2: So I would really strongly do that.

[1:07:55] Voice 2: And to take on the 500 square feet, if we think that's a way to bring some closure to this conversation.

[1:08:03] Voice 2: I mean, at today's construction prices, it makes me wonder how many people will even have an appetite for it.

[1:08:08] Voice 2: I mean, it's a thousand bucks a square foot to build or more these days.

[1:08:11] Voice 2: So, you know, you're looking at a half a million dollars.

[1:08:13] Voice 2: So but if people want that choice and we want to move forward, I think I think that might be a rational way to go forward.

[1:08:22] Trustee Elliott: Yes. And so I see two and anyone else.

[1:08:27] Trustee Elliott: OK.

[1:08:30] Voice 19: Goals were one of the goals was that the community be less divided.

[1:08:35] Voice 19: There's still a divide and we can talk about it.

[1:08:39] Voice 19: so after all this time maybe it's time to consider flexibility and all the people that have built

[1:08:46] Voice 19: previously they built they followed the rules now they're finding they're non-conforming

[1:08:52] Voice 19: that doesn't seem fair or right especially if it's just after a few years why can't they be

[1:08:59] Voice 19: looked after i think shelly referred to that talking to a lawyer look after that so they're

[1:09:05] Voice 19: They're looked after and, you know, and the homes, if people are disturbed that if their homes burn down or something happens that they can't rebuild and be comfortable.

[1:09:20] Voice 19: And there's, you know, that should be looked after.

[1:09:22] Voice 19: And also there's more people now that want to have maybe their children and their grandchildren in their homes as well.

[1:09:31] Voice 19: you know and so you can't just eliminate the big homes or put pressures on those people it's

[1:09:41] Voice 19: already hard enough you know so i would like to see more flexibility and more compromise i think

[1:09:49] Voice 19: we've reached that because we are supposed to be pulling together we shouldn't be feeling like we

[1:09:57] Voice 19: can't come to a meeting because um of the way we feel

[1:10:01] Voice 6: yeah so

[1:10:08] Voice 20: i don't think that we can compare

[1:10:13] Voice 20: ourselves when we're living on one and two acre lots which are the norm on this island we will

[1:10:21] Voice 20: never see long skinny lots again because the islands trust and our trustees have indicated

[1:10:27] Voice 20: that that's not going to happen so you have 1500 square foot utility buildings where somebody's

[1:10:35] Voice 20: doing arc welding because that's their hobby at least you see and nothing in between them

[1:10:42] Voice 20: now we have 40 feet between two houses and everybody has cut down everything between their

[1:10:49] Voice 20: houses for 40 feet you don't somehow whatever is in those setbacks is really the issue not

[1:10:59] Voice 20: how big they are because we're not achieving the separation of personal enjoyment when there's

[1:11:09] Voice 20: nothing between you and the guy who's even 40 feet away I have an experience where that person

[1:11:16] Voice 20: is probably a hundred feet away and it's not sitting very well with me that everything has

[1:11:22] Voice 20: been cleared to the lot line and passed thank you thank

[1:11:27] Voice 6: you just

[1:11:30] Voice 8: one final comment it seems to me

[1:11:34] Voice 8: the dual regulation would solve the problem but uh i guess kind of stuck excuse me stockdale will

[1:11:41] Voice 8: we'll address that hopefully with option three explanation, I guess.

[1:11:47] Voice 8: Sorry,

[1:11:47] Trustee Elliott: can you clarify two regulations as in two tables?

[1:11:50] Trustee Elliott: Yeah,

[1:11:51] Voice 8: the two table or two regulations.

[1:11:54] Voice 6: Okay.

[1:11:57] Voice 8: Is a way of protecting

[1:11:59] Voice 16: other people.

[1:12:01] Voice 16: I think we have to close.

[1:12:04] Voice 16: I mean, if we're not going to get, can I just.

[1:12:07] Voice 16: Yeah.

[1:12:08] Voice 16: Yes,

[1:12:09] Trustee Elliott: we do have to close.

[1:12:11] Trustee Elliott: final speakers who have not spoken one two three times and I'll just give a moment for

[1:12:23] Trustee Elliott: yes

[1:12:23] Voice 2: thank you appreciate that I guess I would just say the two table thing and it went around

[1:12:27] Voice 2: back in the in the day the problem is is that as John said homes are going to be redeveloped over

[1:12:32] Voice 2: time so you've really actually given a lot more back to valuation again you've got somebody that

[1:12:37] Voice 2: buys a property with a little house on it but yet you've got these grandfathered rights to build

[1:12:43] Voice 2: something much much larger than what anybody else on the other 25 or 35 undeveloped properties can

[1:12:48] Voice 2: do so you're really actually creating winners and losers losers in terms of development rights on

[1:12:54] Voice 2: these things and i i just think it's a bad way to go

[1:12:56] Trustee Elliott: okay we are going to close down hall there will

[1:13:01] Trustee Elliott: be another opportunity at the end of the meeting but thank you all for your comments and your

[1:13:05] Trustee Elliott: perspectives and points of view. We are going to try to move through this process so that we can

[1:13:10] Trustee Elliott: continue to bring the community together and work on other things eventually. So we'll go back to

[1:13:17] Trustee Elliott: the agenda. And we have no public, no community information meeting, public hearing and minutes

[1:13:24] Trustee Elliott: for information, which were already adopted of September 13th, 2024. The minutes of January 17th,

[1:13:35] Trustee Elliott: 2025 for adoption is there any errors or changes needed for those minutes

[1:13:42] Trustee Elliott: if not i'll take it by general consent the minutes of january 17 2025 be adopted

[1:13:49] Trustee Elliott: and again we have advisory planning commission minutes from october 4th october 21st and

[1:13:54] Trustee Elliott: november 12th for receipt so as always we have a follow-up action list our chance to ask

[1:14:00] Trustee Elliott: staff questions or provide updates.

[1:14:05] Trustee Elliott: I don't have anything either.

[1:14:12] Trustee Elliott: So correspondence.

[1:14:20] Trustee Elliott: We have one piece of correspondence.

[1:14:23] Trustee Elliott: 13.1 Paul Petrie regarding an advisory planning commission

[1:14:26] Trustee Elliott: minority report.

[1:14:30] Trustee Elliott: Received for receipt unless it can be raised for action.

[1:14:34] Trustee Elliott: Thank you for that.

[1:14:37] Trustee Elliott: And 13.2, we've added a new piece of correspondence. So Trustee Faulkner, if you were in that meeting, do you want to speak to this letter at all or raise it for information?

[1:14:53] Trustee Elliott: I just wanted it on the agenda so that folks could see it from the receipt yesterday.

[1:14:58] Trustee Elliott: I

[1:14:58] Voice 17: think the letter speaks for itself when we got the response to the first letter from

[1:15:13] Voice 17: the ministry that it was not satisfactory and she's very good at that.

[1:15:27] Trustee Elliott: this is regarding bill c33 um which has was completed in december 2024 but died on the

[1:15:36] Trustee Elliott: order paper and this was to do with um improvements for the derelict and hazardous hazardous vessels

[1:15:42] Trustee Elliott: act and vessel remediation fund so it's it is a very good letter um mp may is um she frames the

[1:15:52] Trustee Elliott: issues well and she's been working so hard on these fronts and really listening to people in

[1:15:58] Trustee Elliott: the um southern gulf islands as well as the first nations and basically all of the all the work

[1:16:07] Trustee Elliott: that's gone into uh bill 33 c33 is is evaporated and that seems to be how politics is going right

[1:16:17] Trustee Elliott: now so thank you to her for that um that work okay so we've got um an application for consideration

[1:16:30] Trustee Elliott: does the north pender island local trust committee draft bylaw number 235 uh require a response

[1:16:38] Trustee Elliott: or are our interests unaffected so i would

[1:16:44] Trustee Evans: like to respond um because that's with regards to the

[1:16:47] Trustee Evans: wrap to the next mapping um and i would recommend that we respond with our interest being unaffected

[1:16:53] Trustee Evans: by this bylaw okay agreed okay

[1:16:56] Trustee Evans: so if we need a motion i can make that i move that the south

[1:17:01] Trustee Evans: panda local trust committee respond to north panda's uh bylaw referral form response with

[1:17:08] Trustee Evans: uh checking off interests unaffected by bylaw thank

[1:17:11] Trustee Elliott: you seconder i'll second second by trustee

[1:17:15] Trustee Elliott: folk any discussion all those in favor that is carried okay so now we'll move to our staff report

[1:17:22] Trustee Elliott: at 15.1 there's quite a bit to discuss here if everybody wants to take a breath um i'd like to

[1:17:29] Trustee Elliott: propose we take a break halfway through this to collect our thoughts um but planners doctor where

[1:17:35] Trustee Elliott: do you want to start what

[1:17:37] Voice 21: i uh thank you chair what i thought i would do was break the staff

[1:17:40] Voice 21: report into three separate sections. The first one going quickly over the draft

[1:17:46] Voice 21: final and the conversation about the BC building codes that would be the first

[1:17:51] Voice 21: section. The second session section would be the total and maximum floor area and

[1:17:58] Voice 21: then the third topic when we get to it would be statutory requirements and

[1:18:04] Voice 21: notice of transgreding or public hearing and also an update to the project further okay

[1:18:10] Trustee Evans: that's great

[1:18:12] Trustee Evans: and um if i can at some point when you start going through i've got a uh and some more

[1:18:17] Trustee Evans: amendments great sure would

[1:18:26] Voice 21: you like is that okay sorry

[1:18:28] Trustee Elliott: i i'm quiet right now

[1:18:31] Trustee Elliott: so

[1:18:31] Voice 21: this staff report is to present a draft bylaw to the ltc bylaw 129

[1:18:40] Voice 21: And this is based on recommendations made at the previous meeting on special meeting on January 17th.

[1:18:49] Voice 21: On page 43 of the agenda, which is page two of the staff report, I have put together a brief summary of the direction that was given to staff and what's been included in the draft title 129.

[1:19:04] Voice 21: On the project web page, I've also included a black version, so integrating track by-law

[1:19:12] Voice 21: 129 into the existing land use by-law and also, I believe, put together a consolidated

[1:19:20] Voice 21: version so you can see what it looks like with it fully integrated.

[1:19:26] Voice 21: So that information is on the project web page.

[1:19:30] Voice 21: So what I wanted to do is quickly go over the BC building code because there was a question

[1:19:35] Voice 21: in regards to floor area and how the BC building code um uh defined floor area and did it include

[1:19:44] Voice 21: that 1.8 um meter in height so I did a little bit of investigation and this is on page the bottom

[1:19:51] Voice 21: of page two of the staff report um so floor area actually doesn't make a reference um to the height

[1:19:58] Voice 21: of the story. And where I find that 1.8 meter reference is in terms of referring to a crawl

[1:20:07] Voice 21: space. So it says a crawl space shall be considered a basement if it is more than 1.8 meters high

[1:20:15] Voice 21: between the lowest part of the floor assembly and the ground or other surface below. So I'm assuming

[1:20:22] Voice 21: assuming that is where the reference came from in terms of the 1.8.

[1:20:26] Voice 21: So as a refresher to the LTC, in our current land use fly-off, there is a definition for

[1:20:33] Voice 21: the floor area and it excludes areas of a story that is less than 1.5 meters apart from

[1:20:43] Voice 21: the floor to the ceiling.

[1:20:45] Voice 21: That's the current.

[1:20:46] Voice 21: and so i did provide two options to the ltc to consider the first is adding a definition of

[1:20:54] Voice 21: crawl space similar to what's in the bc building code and then amending the floor area definition

[1:21:00] Voice 21: to exclude crawl spaces i'm hesitant to recommend that option as adding a definition of crawl space

[1:21:10] Voice 21: There could be interpretation issues, BC building code could change, wouldn't necessarily be the most straightforward option.

[1:21:20] Voice 21: The second option there is to amend the definition of floor area to increase the 1.5 meters to 1.8.

[1:21:31] Voice 21: And that's actually similar to some other land use bylaws in the Islands Trust.

[1:21:37] Voice 21: so that is somewhat common so that is something that the LTC could consider and I would need

[1:21:42] Voice 21: I think at this point a direct motion to increase that from 1.5 to 1.8 okay so

[1:21:49] Voice 21: I'm just going to

[1:21:49] Voice 21: pause there yeah

[1:21:51] Trustee Elliott: questions or comments I

[1:21:53] Trustee Evans: like the second option I think that that achieves

[1:21:57] Trustee Evans: it's it addresses the issue that was raised and like we discussed the last meeting that

[1:22:04] Trustee Evans: south pender is primarily an aging community and uh like we've had comments before about

[1:22:11] Trustee Evans: you put something away in your in your um storage area at uh you know four foot nine you put it in

[1:22:17] Trustee Evans: your grandkids are pulling it out again you're

[1:22:19] Voice 6: not going and then

[1:22:20] Trustee Evans: like and i'm speaking for

[1:22:22] Trustee Evans: myself here i have lower back issues i cannot like i can't i can't even be bent to pick up my laptop

[1:22:28] Trustee Evans: top so once it goes in it's never coming out at

[1:22:31] Trustee Evans: 1.8 which is that the client with the bc building

[1:22:35] Trustee Evans: code as a non-livable space you can you know go stooped in and pick something up and come out so

[1:22:43] Trustee Evans: it makes it makes it makes your precious stuff more achievable and you don't have to necessarily

[1:22:48] Trustee Evans: leave it where your brain gets the mind so i'm in favor of the simple solution right especially

[1:22:54] Trustee Evans: seeing it doesn't add any additional complications yep

[1:22:59] Voice 17: it doesn't seem to cause any harm to do that

[1:23:02] Voice 17: make that change to me so i can't see why you shouldn't do that so why

[1:23:06] Trustee Elliott: don't we give some

[1:23:07] Trustee Elliott: directions and stuff right now on that one point and then move on um to and you want to exclude

[1:23:14] Trustee Elliott: null space like areas but

[1:23:16] Trustee Evans: no i'm just i'm just going to make a very simple motion to increase

[1:23:19] Trustee Evans: in the definition of floor area from 1.5 to 1.8 meters.

[1:23:24] Trustee Evans: That's right.

[1:23:24] Trustee Evans: So I move that South Pender Local Trust Committee

[1:23:28] Trustee Evans: direct staff to amend the floor area description

[1:23:34] Trustee Evans: by increasing 1.5 to 1.8 meters.

[1:23:40] Trustee Evans: In draft bylaw 129.

[1:23:43] Trustee Evans: Thank you.

[1:23:44] Trustee Evans: Is there a

[1:23:44] Trustee Evans: question there?

[1:23:45] Trustee Evans: We're in business right now.

[1:23:52] Trustee Elliott: um can you can we change that to i think you said description definition sure definition okay

[1:23:59] Trustee Evans: so i'm just going to make a very little comment quickly judge that question that was thrown out

[1:24:05] Trustee Evans: there will be an opportunity for town hall at the end of this meeting

[1:24:08] Trustee Evans: and these what we're suggesting here are draft

[1:24:12] Trustee Elliott: okay so move that the definition of our area

[1:24:16] Trustee Elliott: be changed to

[1:24:18] Trustee Elliott: from 1.5 to 1.8

[1:24:22] Trustee Elliott: in draft

[1:24:23] Trustee Elliott: by law 1.29.

[1:24:25] Trustee Elliott: Yeah. Your motion?

[1:24:26] Trustee Elliott: Do I have a seconder?

[1:24:28] Trustee Elliott: Seconded.

[1:24:31] Trustee Elliott: Discussion on the motion?

[1:24:32] Voice 17: No, not on the motion.

[1:24:34] Voice 17: Let's vote on the motion.

[1:24:37] Trustee Elliott: Discussion on the motion?

[1:24:39] Trustee Elliott: All those in favour?

[1:24:40] Voice 17: That is carried.

[1:24:42] Voice 17: Last meeting we just made

[1:24:44] Voice 17: the changes and then we made one motion saying please uh you know if you could incorporate the

[1:24:50] Voice 17: changes we made and i think we saved a lot of time and i'm wondering if it's since this is a

[1:24:54] Voice 17: draft anyway we could speed this up if we instead of making official motions for each item let's

[1:25:01] Voice 17: just if it's clear you got your notes if you come back and it's misunderstood we'll correct you

[1:25:06] Voice 17: don't worry is that okay i

[1:25:09] Trustee Evans: actually because we're getting into some areas that are going to be

[1:25:12] Trustee Evans: a little trickier and they're going to require a lot more conversation on our part

[1:25:16] Trustee Evans: and the thing is if we've got minor edits then grouping all of those together i can i can see

[1:25:23] Trustee Evans: but on like especially when we get into the house size discussion that the citing and use i'd like

[1:25:29] Trustee Evans: to pull that out and have that separate yeah i'd like to do that one separately but yeah i've got

[1:25:35] Trustee Evans: i've got a whole bunch of minor

[1:25:37] Trustee Elliott: ones that you agree with and disagree with that you might want

[1:25:40] Trustee Elliott: want to go differently yeah because

[1:25:42] Trustee Elliott: then it affects everything let's try to group what we

[1:25:45] Trustee Elliott: can what makes sense but um definitely hearing both on that uh okay so back to we're at definition

[1:25:54] Trustee Elliott: of a story crawl spaces and then so the attached garages piece at the bottom of um page 44

[1:26:05] Trustee Elliott: the ltc has no option of excluding attached garages do we want to

[1:26:09] Trustee Elliott: Yeah,

[1:26:10] Voice 21: it does. The staff recommendation is to not to include that in the four-area definition,

[1:26:17] Voice 21: but the LTC wants to get direction with staff to amend the draft bylaw. We can do that.

[1:26:23] Trustee Evans: Can we, before we get into the bigger discussion, can I go through some of the smaller changes

[1:26:29] Trustee Evans: and just group all of those together so that they're out of the way?

[1:26:33] Trustee Elliott: Sure. Can we go through the staff report first and then go to those smaller changes? Because

[1:26:41] Trustee Elliott: Because if your changes shift, I'm here now.

[1:26:50] Trustee Elliott: I feel like that would pull us into the next one.

[1:26:53] Trustee Elliott: Make sure we didn't run out of time.

[1:26:55] Voice 17: Well, I have a comment on the attached

[1:26:58] Trustee Elliott: garages.

[1:26:59] Trustee Elliott: Yeah,

[1:27:00] Voice 17: I think we should exclude garages.

[1:27:03] Voice 17: And I think the rationale that's being presented,

[1:27:08] Voice 17: because that can be converted into living spaces in the future,

[1:27:13] Voice 17: That rationale would be just as true for a detached cohort, which can also be modified

[1:27:24] Voice 17: to be the living space, just as easy.

[1:27:27] Voice 17: The walls will be the same thickness, the roof will be the same, the floors will be

[1:27:32] Voice 17: the same, everything will be the same, whether it's attached or not attached.

[1:27:36] Voice 17: So if we're saying that there's a risk of somebody abusing the rules and making a renovation

[1:27:43] Voice 17: later, you know, asking for permission, then we need to apply that consistently if possible.

[1:27:49] Voice 17: There's no difference between an attached or non-attached garage in that respect.

[1:27:54] Voice 17: So I

[1:27:55] Voice 17: feel like it's not irrational for not allowing one.

[1:28:03] Voice 17: What can I say?

[1:28:05] Voice 17: Yeah, so you are in favor

[1:28:08] Trustee Elliott: of excluding attached garages?

[1:28:10] Trustee Elliott: Exactly.

[1:28:11] Trustee Elliott: Okay, thank you.

[1:28:13] Trustee Elliott: Yes?

[1:28:16] Trustee Evans: I have a slightly different approach to this, rather than, because I understand the complication of excluding them from the floor area dwelling.

[1:28:30] Trustee Evans: Again, this is me trying to respect the previous trustees and the work that they put in and

[1:28:36] Trustee Evans: the rationale is rather than increasing all of the house sizes and part of our conversation

[1:28:46] Trustee Evans: was so that because the previous house sizes held the accommodation for attached garages

[1:28:51] Trustee Evans: and all the rest of it, a lot of the homes have already been built and the garages are

[1:28:56] Trustee Evans: separate but I also understand from what people are saying that older houses can be rebuilt and

[1:29:04] Trustee Evans: things can change. What I would perhaps recommend is sort of a bonus incentive clause that if you

[1:29:14] Trustee Evans: chose and this would sort of help us align a little bit with the draft policy statement of

[1:29:19] Trustee Evans: clustering things together if um a new build was done and they were going to attach the garage

[1:29:27] Trustee Evans: that they could have a bonus of up to 500 square feet to accommodate that garage so we can we can

[1:29:37] Trustee Evans: create a clause so the house size itself doesn't change but if if people cluster the garage and

[1:29:44] Trustee Evans: the house together then they're given a bonus of 500 feet to accommodate that so that they don't

[1:29:50] Trustee Evans: have to come for variances in order to achieve that and that way rather than increasing the

[1:29:56] Trustee Evans: house size it can just be a hundred percent house size

[1:30:00] Trustee Evans: because I think the conversation we were having was increasing it by 500 feet

[1:30:03] Trustee Evans: to accommodate and including and excluding the garage rather than doing it

[1:30:09] Trustee Evans: that way.

[1:30:10] Trustee Evans: We just keep the house sizes and we say as an additional clause that and I

[1:30:15] Trustee Evans: know that this has been done elsewhere that you can have a bonus and the

[1:30:19] Trustee Evans: bonus is the wrong word, but I think, you know, when I'm getting at stuff

[1:30:24] Trustee Evans: that, you know, should you, should you choose to attach your garage?

[1:30:27] Trustee Evans: you can use up to 500 square feet without having to go for a variance does that make sense i think

[1:30:37] Voice 17: i know what you're trying to say yeah the language could be i

[1:30:42] Trustee Evans: think staff staff scott

[1:30:44] Trustee Evans: bill understands where i'm going with this maybe she can is that possible

[1:30:48] Voice 21: it's certainly possible

[1:30:51] Voice 21: um again you're running up again what happens if this attached garage becomes part of living

[1:30:58] Voice 21: space right and then that your the total floor area of that house plus that now living space

[1:31:06] Voice 21: would exceed what's in the regulation but

[1:31:08] Voice 17: that's a big if right i mean it

[1:31:11] Voice 21: is a big if

[1:31:11] Voice 17: is you know

[1:31:13] Voice 17: that necessitates somebody breaking the bylaw and then

[1:31:18] Trustee Evans: that can be mediated with

[1:31:19] Trustee Evans: by an enforcement yep and they would

[1:31:22] Trustee Evans: have to go through it yeah so i mean either comply or

[1:31:25] Trustee Evans: or request a variance yeah yeah and the same can be said of a detached garage so where it doesn't

[1:31:33] Trustee Evans: it doesn't solve or change anything and and yeah so i don't want to i don't want to create the

[1:31:40] Trustee Evans: because otherwise we're going to be increasing across the board and then that can 100 be used

[1:31:45] Trustee Evans: for living space

[1:31:47] Trustee Elliott: yeah so just to just so i'm clear on both of your intent is to

[1:31:53] Trustee Elliott: to exclude attached garages but incentivize attaching them by not including the attached

[1:32:03] Trustee Elliott: garage in the total dwelling footprint of the house correct

[1:32:07] Trustee Evans: so the current bylaw house sizes

[1:32:11] Trustee Evans: are maintained yeah you don't change rather than wholesale increasing them by 500 square feet

[1:32:20] Trustee Evans: the actual house itself remains the current size and

[1:32:24] Voice 6: then

[1:32:25] Trustee Evans: an incentive is provided that should you

[1:32:29] Trustee Evans: choose to cluster which is what we're aiming for in the current draft of the of the positive

[1:32:34] Trustee Evans: trust policy statement then you get um up to 500 square feet and i think we said the the average

[1:32:42] Trustee Evans: was 625 square feet for a double car garage so you can use less than um you know so it's it's

[1:32:49] Trustee Evans: it's a it's a it's a yeah

[1:32:51] Trustee Elliott: thanks um so do both of you agree with this that

[1:32:56] Voice 17: achieves my goal

[1:32:57] Trustee Elliott: which

[1:32:58] Voice 17: is to excellent people choose where they want to put their garage so now do you

[1:33:02] Voice 21: so what it could possibly look like is when you're looking at that the table that we have

[1:33:08] Voice 21: in the rural residential where it says the floor area of a dwelling may not exceed and then you

[1:33:14] Voice 21: have your uh specific regulations yeah we could amend that by saying the floor area of a dwelling

[1:33:21] Voice 21: excluding the area of an attached garage and then we could perhaps add a definition of attached

[1:33:27] Voice 21: garage and then later in the bylaw down low we can state that an attached garage may not exceed

[1:33:36] Voice 21: exceed um 500 square feet um

[1:33:41] Trustee Evans: no i think i think going down the attached the excluding the attached

[1:33:45] Trustee Evans: garage route what i'm saying is actually keep that as it is yeah and then as a separate

[1:33:52] Trustee Evans: bullet item yeah have an incentive right that permits you up to 500 square feet to cluster

[1:33:59] Trustee Evans: your garage and attach to your house yeah as a separate item not part of that table and not

[1:34:05] Trustee Evans: having that table excluding the

[1:34:08] Voice 21: garage okay i mean that would achieve the almost the same thing

[1:34:12] Trustee Evans: and achieve the same thing but i think it reduces the complication okay do you do you agree to see

[1:34:18] Trustee Evans: i see

[1:34:19] Voice 21: your face i see your face is reading this does it reduce what we can do is i could provide

[1:34:25] Voice 21: both options and we can take a look at it i think it's really hard to visualize something

[1:34:29] Voice 21: that isn't there on paper yet yeah but um something that we could achieve so is the ltc's

[1:34:38] Voice 21: intent then to keep the floor area for dwellings as is in the land use bylaw

[1:34:46] Voice 21: even adding an ascent an incentive or adding allowing a property owner to have

[1:34:53] Voice 21: have an attached garage in

[1:34:57] Trustee Evans: addition that could be up to 500 square feet yeah so i would say the

[1:35:01] Trustee Evans: intent would be either increasing the table by 500 square foot each yeah and just leaving it as is

[1:35:07] Trustee Evans: yep or maintaining the house sizes the way that they are and putting a clause in right that

[1:35:15] Trustee Evans: permits an incentive to anyone that wishes to attach a garage and cluster the buildings on

[1:35:19] Trustee Evans: their property together yeah in compliance with the upcoming policy statement of up to 500 square

[1:35:27] Trustee Evans: feet okay so it's the same amount it's just

[1:35:29] Trustee Evans: there's two different ways of doing it yeah

[1:35:32] Trustee Evans: yeah got it yeah okay

[1:35:35] Voice 17: trustee falk

[1:35:38] Voice 17: here's now leaving them as they are that's they are in one to two the size i think that's what's

[1:35:45] Voice 17: being discussed.

[1:35:46] Trustee Evans: Yes, so if they're maintained as they are currently sitting in 1-2, then put an

[1:35:52] Trustee Evans: incentive clause for up to 500 square feet to attach a garage to be

[1:35:56] Voice 17: in compliance. The attached

[1:35:58] Voice 17: garage, is that the only issue? Is that the only reason why people wanted to give us feedback that

[1:36:04] Voice 17: they wanted to have a larger house than 1-2 allows? Are there

[1:36:08] Voice 17: other reasons for that? This was

[1:36:10] Trustee Evans: was this was part of the APC recommendation of increasing it to allow for attached garages

[1:36:15] Trustee Evans: because it was saying the attached garage was like 620 by square feet.

[1:36:19] Voice 17: Can I ask the chair of

[1:36:21] Voice 17: the

[1:36:21] Trustee Evans: APC? If

[1:36:22] Trustee Elliott: I recall and according to the minutes they were trying to reach a compromise and so that

[1:36:27] Trustee Elliott: was the rationale for increasing by 500 square feet. I don't think attached garage was part of

[1:36:32] Trustee Elliott: the calculation it was let's have a compromise between 122. So I want that

[1:36:37] Voice 17: compromise to still

[1:36:39] Voice 17: They'll be honored regardless of the...

[1:36:41] Voice 17: All right.

[1:36:41] Trustee Evans: Then if we're going to go with a compromise,

[1:36:43] Trustee Evans: then I would say as is, just the 500 square feet.

[1:36:48] Trustee Evans: And then if people want to include the garage, they can.

[1:36:50] Trustee Evans: And if they don't, they don't.

[1:36:52] Voice 6: Okay.

[1:36:53] Trustee Evans: And just leave it.

[1:36:55] Trustee Evans: Yeah.

[1:36:56] Trustee Evans: And then that's still significantly smaller

[1:36:59] Trustee Evans: than what it was in the previous Bible.

[1:37:03] Trustee Evans: So then...

[1:37:04] Trustee Elliott: Not really.

[1:37:05] Trustee Elliott: 3,000 to 3,800?

[1:37:09] Trustee Evans: That's still...

[1:37:10] Trustee Elliott: increasing

[1:37:11] Trustee Evans: it by 500

[1:37:13] Trustee Evans: is still less than

[1:37:14] Trustee Evans: half going back

[1:37:16] Trustee Evans: still 850 square feet

[1:37:20] Trustee Evans: less than

[1:37:20] Voice 6: personally

[1:37:22] Trustee Elliott: I like

[1:37:23] Trustee Elliott: your idea

[1:37:24] Trustee Elliott: as a trustee

[1:37:28] Trustee Elliott: my view

[1:37:29] Trustee Elliott: has changed on these house sizes

[1:37:31] Trustee Elliott: I don't think

[1:37:33] Trustee Elliott: so the addition of 500

[1:37:36] Trustee Elliott: square feet didn't have any

[1:37:37] Trustee Elliott: rationale except for let's reach a compromise

[1:37:39] Trustee Elliott: compromise right good compromise but what again what are we trying to achieve we're trying to

[1:37:46] Trustee Elliott: achieve a balance between house sizes and uh livability um i do like the attached garage

[1:37:56] Trustee Elliott: proposal i

[1:37:57] Voice 17: do too uh

[1:37:58] Trustee Elliott: that if it goes back to uh 2500 for less you know one acre property

[1:38:04] Trustee Elliott: but you have the option to add up to 500 square feet of an attached garage

[1:38:09] Trustee Elliott: garage that achieves the same as a 3,000 square foot home but that's kind of where I'm falling

[1:38:16] Trustee Evans: right now well

[1:38:17] Trustee Evans: it doesn't achieve the same as a 3,000 square foot home it keeps it as a 2,500

[1:38:21] Trustee Evans: square foot home just gives it the option of attaching your garage without having to go for

[1:38:25] Trustee Evans: a variance but

[1:38:26] Trustee Elliott: again there's no um rationale for changing the 2,500 square foot up to 3,000

[1:38:33] Trustee Elliott: other than achieving a compromise if your

[1:38:36] Trustee Elliott: attached garage is the compromise then

[1:38:38] Trustee Evans: I think we have had conversations and significant conversations regarding the like once once you start looking at that and you start chipping away at what comes off your actual livable area and the fact that we are an aging community the majority of people here are you know retired couples but there are people that have larger families there are accessibility issues

[1:39:09] Trustee Evans: That require and I think it was you need an extra 12% of your home to make it wheelchair accessible that makes for very small livable spaces and I am supportive of smaller house sizes.

[1:39:25] Trustee Evans: But i'm also hearing that the up to 40% reduction of the previous size was too much, so the compromise here of adding in the 500 square feet.

[1:39:41] Trustee Evans: i think is a good compromise it is still less and and significantly less than half of what was

[1:39:51] Trustee Evans: reduced in the in the previous round so

[1:39:53] Trustee Elliott: just let me get this straight though you are talking about

[1:39:56] Trustee Elliott: 3 000 square feet plus another 500 feet no no we're going back to 2 500 plus 500 square feet

[1:40:02] Trustee Elliott: or 3 000

[1:40:04] Trustee Evans: that's what i was saying oh that wasn't what i was hearing okay so i'm asking for two

[1:40:08] Trustee Evans: tables one that says 3 000 or whatever like the the add 500 to each one table one option

[1:40:15] Trustee Evans: second option the 2500 and the way that they're currently set plus the incentive of 500.

[1:40:23] Voice 6: is

[1:40:24] Voice 21: that clear to you staff's um preference would be option one where you're creasing it all by 500.

[1:40:32] Voice 21: okay it's just

[1:40:32] Voice 21: simpler it's simpler it's you know less case of issues with interpretation

[1:40:40] Voice 21: um allows the property owner the ability to choose what they wish to do with that extra 500 square

[1:40:45] Voice 21: feet yeah

[1:40:46] Voice 19: okay and

[1:40:47] Trustee Evans: so i think that would help address like the accessibility issues and the

[1:40:52] Trustee Evans: larger family issues and other things that we've heard regarding lifestyle which is something that

[1:40:58] Trustee Evans: in the policy statement we also have to do make sure that we account for but it keeps the house

[1:41:03] Trustee Evans: sizes a lot smaller than they were before which i'm very supportive of so

[1:41:12] Trustee Elliott: what i'm hearing is

[1:41:13] Trustee Elliott: the rationale for you to go from 2500 to 3000 square feet or increase everything by 500 square

[1:41:22] Trustee Elliott: feet is livability intergenerational living and in your view 2500 is just too small

[1:41:30] Trustee Evans: if you got

[1:41:32] Trustee Evans: got 2500 and you want to attach air to knock 625 square feet off that plus you have to knock well

[1:41:37] Trustee Evans: now you have to knock off i'm just trying to get

[1:41:40] Voice 17: it just keep shrinking shrinking okay so i don't

[1:41:43] Voice 17: think we have a disagreement on that but i think the issue is that the garage because i still want

[1:41:50] Voice 17: the builders to like people who buy property and lay out to lay out and plan for it i want them to

[1:41:56] Voice 17: have the option to have an attached garage or you did a non-attached collage because the layout of

[1:42:03] Voice 17: the lot may dictate you know one option over the other even their personal strength building maybe

[1:42:08] Voice 17: they don't want to walk outside after they get out of their car yeah it's it's i i don't see why we

[1:42:14] Voice 17: need to kind of punish somebody by saying you have to have a garage house you know separate

[1:42:19] Voice 17: i don't i don't get the rationale of that the building footprint is going to be potentially

[1:42:27] Voice 17: smaller, if you have it attached, because you can build on top of it to get your square footage.

[1:42:33] Voice 17: You can save on building materials, you save at least two walls. You probably will save a roof

[1:42:38] Voice 17: because you're going to build a roof for the living space that you maybe have above it.

[1:42:43] Voice 17: So I just, I don't like taking options away that don't put any harm that I can receive at all. So

[1:42:55] Voice 17: So, say, using the example of the smaller lot size,

[1:42:59] Voice 17: if it sounds like we're leaning towards agreement on the 3,000 square foot,

[1:43:04] Voice 17: and then you can attach the garage of whatever size you can make the garage,

[1:43:09] Voice 17: if you want, and if you don't want to, not within that,

[1:43:12] Voice 17: in addition to that, because it's not living space.

[1:43:16] Trustee Evans: This is where you two are, we're differing there.

[1:43:18] Trustee Evans: Okay.

[1:43:18] Trustee Evans: Yeah.

[1:43:20] Trustee Evans: For myself, it stays at 2,500 square feet, plus 500 for the garage.

[1:43:25] Trustee Evans: what's

[1:43:26] Voice 17: your what's your uh actually like what are you thinking like i don't i don't understand

[1:43:30] Voice 17: it because so say you are a current person that has a large family you want to have all the

[1:43:35] Voice 17: visitors you do need a wheelchair accessibility throughout but you

[1:43:39] Voice 17: also want a garage but you

[1:43:40] Voice 17: can't have that you can you have to give up your garage well if

[1:43:43] Voice 17: you if we just if

[1:43:44] Trustee Evans: we just make the

[1:43:45] Trustee Evans: house size three thousand square feet and that that then gives the flexibility to to have a

[1:43:50] Trustee Evans: garage in there as well you can choose to have it or you can choose to build it that's right

[1:43:54] Voice 17: somebody you know

[1:43:55] Trustee Evans: i i'm sending you a question i'm not grounding it um

[1:44:01] Trustee Evans: with this you can choose to have it or not at the current one it's too small so by adding on

[1:44:10] Trustee Evans: that 500 square feet we're we're maintaining the previous trustee's vision of smaller health sizes

[1:44:17] Trustee Evans: and having the ability to attach a garage while respecting the trust policy statement

[1:44:24] Trustee Evans: that we're working on to cluster things together they also then have the choice of i don't want to

[1:44:31] Trustee Evans: attach my garage and i need to use the full 3 000 square feet because i have a caretaker i have this

[1:44:38] Trustee Evans: i have that but i can only afford less than an acre but again it's the thing at this point if

[1:44:43] Trustee Evans: you if that's too small then don't be here and i hate like it's not that's that's kind of like

[1:44:51] Trustee Evans: like the wrong way, but by a large lot or like it, that is getting to the point where

[1:44:59] Trustee Evans: it should be achievable. But I don't agree with adding 3000 plus another 500. That's

[1:45:08] Trustee Evans: too much. That's too much.

[1:45:10] Voice 17: I hear you saying that, but I failed to see the rationale because

[1:45:14] Voice 17: you can still build that garage detached. Yeah. And that's, you know, building large

[1:45:20] Voice 17: the number of trees or whatever, like, what are you, like, I don't understand how that

[1:45:28] Voice 17: achieves the goals of the OCP or the policy statement anymore, or unless it's the same

[1:45:34] Voice 17: square footage, more building materials, that's one point, so against it, what's the point

[1:45:39] Voice 17: for it? I don't see it.

[1:45:42] Trustee Evans: And I was going to say the same argument could be said about the Mevia Spilo 114, where they

[1:45:48] Trustee Evans: were much larger and people still built garages separately.

[1:45:52] Voice 17: yeah so

[1:45:53] Trustee Evans: it doesn't matter and

[1:45:54] Voice 17: that's kind of my point it doesn't matter how prohibited to do that

[1:45:56] Voice 17: i know we should be allowed to to do it more sensibly yeah

[1:46:00] Trustee Evans: so

[1:46:02] Voice 17: what's your recommendation

[1:46:04] Voice 17: that if you want to build your garage and we can have it up to 500 square feet you can add it to

[1:46:08] Voice 17: the 3000 because it's not living space you can just so there's an allowance for attaching you

[1:46:12] Voice 17: can go wall to wall that's it end of story the outbuilding is allowed to be side by side with

[1:46:18] Voice 17: your house. Simple. It's not complicated. Yeah,

[1:46:22] Voice 17: but that's practically taking us back to the

[1:46:25] Voice 17: previous house sizes. No, it's not because of three. No, because it's not a house size. You

[1:46:30] Voice 17: see, my thinking is different. One is a garage, and one's a house. And if you cluster them together,

[1:46:35] Voice 17: you actually save land use. Your driveways are less. All kinds of things are reduced.

[1:46:41] Trustee Evans: Okay, so then you'll be going for option two, what we're saying. Put that back down to $2,500

[1:46:46] Trustee Evans: hundred and at the five hundred leave

[1:46:48] Voice 17: it at three thousand yes because it's not the house side i'm

[1:46:51] Voice 17: talking about the instant the three thousand is all the arguments that you presented which i think

[1:46:57] Voice 17: are valid for the wheelchair accessibility all that if you need all that then you should have

[1:47:02] Voice 17: the allowance to do that but you shouldn't be punished by saying you can't have that

[1:47:07] Voice 17: why like i mean i just fail to see why i what

[1:47:13] Voice 17: have they done wrong they

[1:47:14] Trustee Elliott: haven't done anything

[1:47:15] Trustee Elliott: thing wrong we don't need to talk about punishment this is about land use yeah building size exactly

[1:47:20] Trustee Elliott: yeah um so we're trying to we're trying to work in flexibility and we're trying to work in um

[1:47:27] Trustee Elliott: incentivizing landowners to put buildings together so there's less impact on the environment right

[1:47:32] Voice 6: i

[1:47:33] Trustee Elliott: hear that can we take a pause for a break and have some thinking

[1:47:39] Trustee Elliott: That's good.

[1:47:40] Voice 6: We're going to recess.

[1:47:41] Voice 6: Oh, that's great.

[1:47:42] Trustee Elliott: It's all good.

[1:47:43] Trustee Elliott: I'm in disagreement.

[1:47:45] Trustee Elliott: I'll be there

[1:47:46] Voice 3: in five minutes.

[1:47:48] Trustee Elliott: 12.25.

[1:47:52] Trustee Elliott: Is that okay?

[1:47:54] Trustee Elliott: Yeah.

[1:47:54] Trustee Elliott: Too late.

[1:47:54] Trustee Elliott: Yeah, 12.25.

[1:47:55] Trustee Elliott: 12.25.

[1:47:56] Trustee Elliott: Thank you.

[1:47:58] Voice 12: Yeah.

[1:47:59] Voice 12: No, I think you're both...

[1:56:40] Voice 11: It's up to

[1:56:40] Voice 6: you to find people.

[1:56:43] Voice 11: Shut the door.

[1:56:45] Voice 11: Shut the door.

[1:56:47] Voice 6: Monica, could you close

[1:56:49] Voice 10: that door back there please.

[1:57:09] Voice 6: Gather round

[1:57:10] Trustee Elliott: the fire everyone. Let's continue.

[1:57:15] Voice 6: oh so

[1:57:17] Trustee Elliott: just to summarize um we started on excluding

[1:57:30] Voice 6: so

[1:57:31] Trustee Elliott: we started talking about excluding garages and then moved into house sizes but i want to

[1:57:37] Trustee Elliott: turn to finer stockfield to maybe summarize and give us some options um for how to

[1:57:43] Trustee Elliott: consider this work are there different options yeah

[1:57:47] Voice 21: so i don't think that um

[1:57:50] Voice 21: trustee follow the trustee evans are too far off here i think you're you're quite close

[1:57:55] Voice 21: um but just to refresh so it sounds like you're debating option one so increasing

[1:58:03] Voice 21: the floor area of dwellings that are currently in the land use finalizes by 500 square feet each

[1:58:10] Voice 21: or the other option is keeping them as is and having a despite clause that a house can have

[1:58:18] Voice 21: an attached garage up to a floor area of 100 square feet. Again my professional opinion and

[1:58:26] Voice 21: always to keep things as easy as to interpret as possible and to give the property owner the

[1:58:34] Voice 21: flexibility to to use that extra 500 square feet to their what meets their family the best if that's

[1:58:42] Voice 21: an attached garage living space storage whatever it may be um so i'm going to leave it at that i

[1:58:50] Voice 21: guess it's just a matter of discussing those two options and the ltc if you can't come to an

[1:58:55] Voice 21: agreement today um one of my recommendations is for a community information meeting so i can bring

[1:59:01] Voice 21: and present both options again back like bring it back and have that further discussion i just

[1:59:07] Voice 21: don't want to create a further divide in the ltc and also in the community over something that's so

[1:59:12] Voice 21: close thank you i think you

[1:59:18] Trustee Evans: had a different yeah

[1:59:22] Voice 17: i just um i'm not sure if i understood

[1:59:26] Voice 17: totally what you were saying um just can we not come up with an option where

[1:59:37] Voice 17: where the garage is not seen as living space and so therefore doesn't get muddled up with it

[1:59:43] Voice 17: and it can be attached or not attached because that's a building material savings option

[1:59:49] Voice 17: and it's not to do with the house size it has to do with the garage size and the house size

[1:59:56] Voice 17: is determined already so that is the two

[2:00:00] Voice 17: that is how you would keep it simple and non-confusing

[2:00:02] Voice 6: and

[2:00:04] Voice 17: it would be it would send a

[2:00:06] Voice 17: strong message to you all everyone is that we we work hard to come up with options for you

[2:00:13] Voice 17: to treat the environment better to to reduce the use of materials to cluster things that

[2:00:22] Voice 17: make sense to clusters we have given you the options to be more caring for your island

[2:00:27] Voice 17: To me, that's what it does, and it says our LTC pays attention to our needs and for the protection of the islands.

[2:00:37] Voice 17: And the way it would be if we do that and say that if you're going to have, if you're going to touch the garage,

[2:00:45] Voice 17: then you're going to lose the benefit that everybody else has now of the size of their living space.

[2:00:53] Voice 17: You're discriminating in a way. That to me is not a good message.

[2:01:00] Voice 17: if you say that that's saying we are persnickety we have certain ways we want it this way and

[2:01:06] Voice 17: you just have to put up with it kind of thing that that's as a homeowner that's how i would

[2:01:12] Voice 17: read it it's like why why are they making me do this why are they preventing me from doing it

[2:01:17] Voice 17: that way and i don't that's what i don't like especially because to me that is a way to be

[2:01:24] Voice 17: more protective of the environment so

[2:01:27] Trustee Elliott: i agree with you if i could speak as a trustee not sharing

[2:01:32] Trustee Elliott: right now um i agree with you to a point because if the goal is to incentivize keeping things

[2:01:40] Trustee Elliott: together to reduce building materials let's say that's great what i see this could be challenging

[2:01:46] Trustee Elliott: for a landowner is if you're on a one acre property and the topography is such that

[2:01:51] Trustee Elliott: that building a 3,000 square foot home would require carving off this and filling in that

[2:01:57] Trustee Elliott: to get your garage whereas a more appropriate location for the garage is say down the slope

[2:02:03] Trustee Elliott: and you want to walk up to that house but

[2:02:06] Voice 17: you have that then you

[2:02:07] Trustee Elliott: don't have the 3,000 square

[2:02:10] Trustee Elliott: foot option you've got the distributed buildings but it's appropriate for the topography so that's

[2:02:16] Trustee Elliott: where the the environmental consideration it's it's trickier on smaller acreages if you've got

[2:02:23] Trustee Elliott: that 10 acres and there's a big appropriate place to put a house with an attached garage then

[2:02:29] Trustee Elliott: you've got more options um i do think that allowing a landowner to figure out if

[2:02:36] Trustee Elliott: the garage should be with their house or appropriately further away um i mean there's

[2:02:45] Trustee Elliott: It's just that both sides could have environmental values.

[2:02:50] Voice 17: Nothing's preventing the option that you're just explaining.

[2:02:54] Voice 17: And that's my point.

[2:02:56] Voice 17: Because of the differences in the topography and so on,

[2:03:00] Voice 17: and personal preferences,

[2:03:01] Voice 17: you can figure the landowner to figure that out.

[2:03:05] Voice 17: You have the options.

[2:03:06] Voice 17: And all I'm wanting to create here is options

[2:03:08] Voice 17: and not sort of punishing by taking options away.

[2:03:13] Voice 17: way. And I feel when we're forced into doing something that we may not choose, the less

[2:03:22] Voice 17: options we have, the less we're able to protect the environment. I mean, of course, this is

[2:03:27] Voice 17: mute if people don't care about that anyway, right? But given that, that's what we're trying

[2:03:33] Voice 17: to create here is an island where people care about the environment, so we should provide

[2:03:37] Voice 17: them the option to do it in the most creative way and with as much freedom to achieve that

[2:03:43] Voice 17: as possible. So if they want to have a detached garage down the hill or on the hilltop or away

[2:03:49] Voice 17: because that's the only place it fits instead of making that larger than the interior house because

[2:03:54] Voice 17: that doesn't see you know there's not room for that obviously that's the choice they should be

[2:04:00] Voice 17: able to make. So

[2:04:02] Voice 17: nothing here prevents that right. I'm not suggesting that we prohibit detached

[2:04:08] Voice 17: garages. I just don't want to punish it or discourage it or encourage it, but it's allowed.

[2:04:15] Voice 17: Same with attached garages. We don't want to punish those who want to do that.

[2:04:20] Trustee Elliott: Okay, you keep using the word punish, but Lanky's by-laws are not here to punish people.

[2:04:24] Trustee Elliott: We are here to set standards.

[2:04:26] Trustee Elliott: Restrict me.

[2:04:27] Trustee Elliott: Okay, yeah, correction accepted.

[2:04:32] Trustee Elliott: Okay, can we ask the planner to bring back options?

[2:04:36] Trustee Elliott: yeah

[2:04:37] Voice 17: so my question

[2:04:38] Trustee Elliott: I guess

[2:04:39] Voice 17: to the planner would be

[2:04:41] Voice 17: can we achieve that by just

[2:04:44] Voice 17: simply leaving it the way the table

[2:04:46] Voice 17: is set up right now

[2:04:47] Voice 17: for the house sizes or

[2:04:50] Voice 17: whatever house sizes we decide on in the end

[2:04:52] Voice 17: because I guess we've sort of jumped the gun

[2:04:54] Voice 17: here on that conversation

[2:04:55] Voice 17: and this treat garages

[2:04:58] Voice 17: as a separate it's an outbuilding

[2:05:00] Voice 17: it's a garage it has a specific

[2:05:01] Voice 17: which excludes living space

[2:05:04] Voice 17: it's not a living space

[2:05:07] Voice 17: And just not prohibit attaching it or detaching it.

[2:05:13] Trustee Elliott: Could you just achieve that by defining a dwelling as not including an attached garage?

[2:05:19] Voice 17: That's kind of what I'm thinking.

[2:05:21] Voice 17: It's actually pretty simple, but I don't know that.

[2:05:25] Voice 21: What I would recommend is putting it somewhere in the zone so it's upfront and obvious.

[2:05:31] Voice 21: I would hate to hide something in the definition of a dwelling.

[2:05:34] Voice 21: That could be confusing.

[2:05:35] Voice 21: So you could do something, keep the 5.1.5 as is, so the table, and then under that have another despite section, despite this dwell, you know, I don't know how it'd be worded, but you would put that despite right underneath the table, just so it's clear.

[2:05:56] Voice 21: so that is an option yeah what I could do is report back on both options so BLTC can look at

[2:06:02] Voice 21: both and and I could put together some pros and cons for

[2:06:07] Trustee Elliott: each option as well so

[2:06:08] Trustee Elliott: the first option

[2:06:10] Trustee Elliott: is we go with well option one the recommendation of the APC to increase to 500 square feet but that

[2:06:17] Trustee Elliott: excludes I'm gonna pause you

[2:06:20] Trustee Evans: there thank you so you know there are no

[2:06:22] Trustee Evans: we're now we're now in a

[2:06:24] Trustee Evans: different conversation we're only talking about garages and how to accommodate carriages we are

[2:06:28] Trustee Evans: not going for option one as a solution for house sizes I have a whole other conversation to have

[2:06:36] Trustee Evans: regarding house size so I've kept my comments only to how to take the address garages okay

[2:06:43] Trustee Elliott: let's move into the conversation on house sizes put a pin in the attached garages recognizing

[2:06:50] Trustee Elliott: Recognizing everybody wants to provide the most flexibility to landowners as well as for protection of the environment.

[2:06:57] Trustee Elliott: So on options to address total and maximum floor area, what are your thoughts on this?

[2:07:07] Trustee Elliott: my thought

[2:07:08] Trustee Evans: is and i can't can't uh yeah so option three have the two separate tables

[2:07:17] Trustee Evans: with the first table being the previous um house sizes but i want to change and so this is where

[2:07:28] Trustee Evans: i'm going to want me to have a conversation um and i need to look at the actual provider

[2:07:34] Trustee Evans: So in Section 5, where it simply says maximum floor area per lot, that will have to have

[2:07:42] Trustee Evans: different language put in if there are two tables.

[2:07:47] Trustee Evans: So we have Table A prior to September 15th and Table B post September 15th.

[2:07:53] Trustee Evans: And then we would need language something along the lines of, which is very similar

[2:07:58] Trustee Evans: to what's currently in there.

[2:07:59] Trustee Evans: um so it would say five and replace maximum floor area per lot with on a lot that contains

[2:08:07] Trustee Evans: a legal dwelling constructed prior to september 15th 2022 replacement dwelling may be constructed

[2:08:13] Trustee Evans: or the existing dwelling reconstructed or altered provided the floor of the replacement

[2:08:17] Trustee Evans: reconstructed or altered dwelling does not exceed and the skirt changes the greater of either

[2:08:24] Trustee Evans: A the floor area of the dwelling on the lot prior to September 15th 2022 or the

[2:08:34] Trustee Evans: established maximum floor area per lot as permitted in sub as permitted in like

[2:08:38] Trustee Evans: table B which will be post. You

[2:08:43] Trustee Elliott: should send us all that kind of wording. So this

[2:08:47] Trustee Evans: is actually what was proposed this was a recommendation from the APC.

[2:08:51] Trustee Elliott: Okay so can

[2:08:52] Trustee Elliott: you just point to it so i can read along because i have

[2:08:54] Trustee Evans: trouble um you're gonna have to you're gonna

[2:08:57] Trustee Evans: have to i'm gonna go to the apc minutes yeah

[2:09:00] Trustee Elliott: i can't remember

[2:09:01] Trustee Evans: what page that was on but it's

[2:09:03] Trustee Evans: actually in there and i've just i've just split it out into a or b um

[2:09:10] Voice 6: i don't know what page it was

[2:09:12] Voice 6: on what page am i on here what is this

[2:09:18] Voice 14: recommends

[2:09:31] Trustee Elliott: a new table i

[2:09:45] Voice 4: wish i'd written this down

[2:09:51] Trustee Elliott: Oh, I think I see. 25 and 26. The APC recommends the LTC replace clause 5.1, undersiding in size.

[2:10:00] Trustee Elliott: Yeah.

[2:10:01] Trustee Elliott: Okay.

[2:10:02] Trustee Elliott: Yeah.

[2:10:02] Trustee Elliott: So that's the top

[2:10:03] Trustee Evans: of page 26.

[2:10:07] Trustee Evans: So I'm just splitting it into A and B.

[2:10:12] Trustee Elliott: placement dwelling may be constructed or the existing dwelling reconstructed or altered

[2:10:16] Trustee Elliott: provided the floor area that replaced reconstructed or altered dwelling does not exceed the floor area

[2:10:21] Trustee Elliott: well

[2:10:23] Trustee Evans: so what that's so while we while we have those two tables in here it's making sure that

[2:10:30] Trustee Evans: the the existing and and it's really important that we have four in there because the way that

[2:10:38] Trustee Evans: that the enhanced non-conforming protection clause

[2:10:41] Trustee Evans: is currently written,

[2:10:43] Trustee Evans: means that if you have a 751 square foot house,

[2:10:48] Trustee Evans: despite the table that says you can build bigger,

[2:10:50] Trustee Evans: this says you cannot build bigger.

[2:10:52] Trustee Evans: So that's an unforeseen fact of this clause

[2:10:55] Trustee Evans: that has to be addressed.

[2:10:57] Trustee Evans: So it has to say the greater of either.

[2:11:00] Trustee Elliott: You slowed down back up to the,

[2:11:03] Trustee Elliott: you're saying the clause does not allow you to build

[2:11:07] Trustee Elliott: up to the total?

[2:11:08] Trustee Evans: the current clause yeah because the current clause states that um the replacement reconstructed or

[2:11:17] Trustee Evans: altered dwelling does not exceed the floor area of the current dwelling on the lot so if you've

[2:11:22] Trustee Evans: got a if you've got a dwelling that's 800 square feet this means you cannot build bigger so

[2:11:31] Voice 20: so

[2:11:31] Trustee Evans: you have to you have to in there say the greater of either if you want to build larger

[2:11:37] Trustee Evans: larger than something that you've currently got on there prior to September 15th so despite this

[2:11:44] Trustee Evans: you this says you cannot build larger so

[2:11:49] Voice 21: the despite clause actually says may be constructed

[2:11:53] Voice 21: so it may be constructed does it say it has to be constructed to that floor area at the time of

[2:12:01] Voice 21: bylaw

[2:12:01] Trustee Evans: adoption but it's still good to have the greater greater than we could add that in for

[2:12:08] Trustee Evans: further clarity yeah and what i'm saying is rather than having it as the despite portion down here

[2:12:13] Trustee Evans: moving it in up at this level also then creates a bylaw versus this because this is um an enhanced

[2:12:24] Trustee Evans: non-conforming protection clause is what it's known as so by not having it as a non-conforming

[2:12:31] Trustee Evans: protection clause but actually making it a bylaw also helps remove the um the confusion

[2:12:38] Trustee Evans: surrounding it regardless and we talked about this at the beginning of this project

[2:12:44] Trustee Evans: regardless of how we go about this we said that we we needed to get an actual legal opinion

[2:12:50] Trustee Evans: on this to put the matter to rest so whichever way we go sorry on this the table or the legal

[2:12:58] Trustee Evans: non-conforming the legal non-conforming

[2:13:00] Voice 6: because

[2:13:02] Trustee Evans: we don't have but we can't talk about it so

[2:13:05] Trustee Evans: So we have to go and we discussed in the beginning of this project that we were going to make sure that we got a legal opinion.

[2:13:13] Trustee Evans: So we're getting to that point now.

[2:13:15] Trustee Evans: We talked about having it earlier on.

[2:13:17] Trustee Evans: We said we're going to defer it until later once we solidified what direction we were going to go.

[2:13:22] Trustee Evans: And so we're reaching that point.

[2:13:24] Trustee Evans: So you said that we should go and get a legal opinion.

[2:13:27] Trustee Evans: I'm confirming, yes, we really should.

[2:13:29] Trustee Evans: And we have thought about it with fire.

[2:13:30] Trustee Evans: i

[2:13:31] Trustee Elliott: was referring to legal counsel about having two tables in the bylaw yes well that would be

[2:13:37] Trustee Elliott: i i do not recall that we wanted another legal opinion on legal non-conforming because it's

[2:13:43] Trustee Elliott: pretty clear in the local government we

[2:13:46] Trustee Evans: talked about this wording going for legal opinion

[2:13:51] Voice 19: because

[2:13:52] Trustee Evans: we don't again we can't speak to that so

[2:13:55] Voice 21: this without going to law as it really is a

[2:13:58] Voice 21: regulation should not be using it's regulation in the land use pilot it was reviewed by legal

[2:14:05] Trustee Evans: counsel about regulation but we didn't get an opinion on it and we asked for we wanted a public

[2:14:11] Trustee Evans: facing opinion we don't have anything we can we

[2:14:13] Voice 21: don't have a public facing opinion

[2:14:15] Voice 21: no but legal

[2:14:16] Voice 21: has reviewed that and provided their comments so they would have at that time said absolutely no

[2:14:22] Voice 21: this doesn't work this doesn't make sense but they did not say that they actually said add in a couple

[2:14:27] Voice 21: of these words this is how you

[2:14:28] Trustee Evans: achieve that yeah yeah but to put this whole issue to rest we had

[2:14:33] Trustee Evans: said at the beginning of this project we will get a public facing legal opinion and

[2:14:38] Trustee Elliott: i still think we

[2:14:39] Trustee Evans: need to do

[2:14:39] Trustee Elliott: not support getting a legal opinion on previously passed bylaws that we're trying to

[2:14:44] Trustee Evans: we're talking about this one that we're going to

[2:14:46] Trustee Elliott: do whatever we decide on here see the opinion on

[2:14:49] Trustee Elliott: trustee when we draft a new bylaw it will go for legal review perfect that's what i'm saying that

[2:14:55] Trustee Elliott: That is all. We're not going to do legal review on a previously passed by.

[2:14:58] Trustee Elliott: I'm not asking for that.

[2:14:59] Trustee Elliott: It's already been done. Thank you.

[2:15:01] Voice 6: Can I speak?

[2:15:02] Trustee Elliott: Yes.

[2:15:08] Voice 17: So to me, like I'm always looking for what's the problem that I'm trying to solve, right?

[2:15:12] Voice 17: And the problem when it comes to the clause is that there's different interpretations.

[2:15:20] Voice 17: Some may argue that there's a confusion for some people, but it's nevertheless, some people

[2:15:28] Voice 17: are not feeling good about it.

[2:15:31] Voice 17: And my sense is that it's the type of language that's been used as inflammatory, legally

[2:15:39] Voice 17: non-conforming.

[2:15:40] Voice 17: I think that's an inflammatory term, and I was always confused by it.

[2:15:43] Voice 17: but and it was somebody asked for an opinion by the trustees and so I'll state my opinion

[2:15:52] Voice 17: on the issue of non-conforming. I have read all of the Q&As and all the

[2:16:01] Voice 17: literature that you have developed to clarify and I agree with that and I don't have a problem with

[2:16:09] Voice 17: the official interpretation of legal non-conformity. I don't think it's an issue

[2:16:15] Voice 17: in the end, as long as everything is included by that, like height and size and everything.

[2:16:22] Voice 17: But I do think the term is inflammatory or not well understood in it. I asked myself,

[2:16:29] Voice 17: what is the right term? Like in English, what is it? And then somebody helped me with it and

[2:16:35] Voice 17: came up with this word or used the word and I thought oh this is it grandfathered this is what

[2:16:43] Voice 17: was used to be called grandfathering something in you make a new rule and you grandfather in

[2:16:48] Voice 17: everything up to that point and I think for me anyway I would much rather be grandfathered

[2:16:53] Voice 17: legally non-compliant and I'm wondering why we didn't use the term grandfathered

[2:17:02] Voice 17: in the text of our bylaws and furthermore is there anything preventing us from doing that

[2:17:09] Voice 17: going forward because i think we could solve a lot of problems

[2:17:12] Voice 17: so

[2:17:13] Voice 6: the

[2:17:17] Voice 21: land use bylaws as it stands doesn't actually refer to legal non-conforming

[2:17:23] Voice 21: there's no reference to that and that language is straight from the local government act

[2:17:27] Voice 21: so the regulation five or subsection 5.16 actually says despite section 515 on a lot that came to

[2:17:40] Voice 21: a legal dwelling that's the only reference to legal there's no reference to non-conforming

[2:17:45] Voice 21: and this regulation has actually nothing to do with legal non-conformity it's a regulation stating

[2:17:52] Voice 21: stating that this is the floor area you may have.

[2:17:56] Voice 17: So how come we talk so much about legal non-conformity?

[2:17:59] Voice 17: I

[2:17:59] Voice 21: think there's a misconception with the community.

[2:18:02] Voice 21: It's very confusing.

[2:18:03] Voice 21: It's hard to understand.

[2:18:06] Voice 21: And I think that's, yeah, I'm just going to leave it at that

[2:18:10] Voice 21: because I don't know how many times I've kind of gone over the FAQ.

[2:18:13] Voice 21: It's hard to understand.

[2:18:15] Voice 21: It's because of that term, yeah.

[2:18:16] Voice 21: And that term gets confusing,

[2:18:18] Voice 21: and I think it's kind of a loaded term as well,

[2:18:20] Voice 21: well but the way that the land use bylaw is written as is. I

[2:18:25] Voice 17: make a motion that we

[2:18:26] Voice 17: hereby forbid the use of the term.

[2:18:31] Trustee Evans: But this is I think whether the legal public facing opinion

[2:18:35] Trustee Evans: will come would be very useful because right now we don't have something.

[2:18:41] Voice 17: I don't have an opinion on that and I'm okay with that if it's needed. I think it's more to do with

[2:18:47] Voice 17: the term than it is to do with the actual mechanics of it i think it's needed by the

[2:18:51] Voice 17: community yeah yeah except

[2:18:52] Voice 17: i'm fully aware that the legal opinion going to come back is going to

[2:18:57] Voice 17: say exactly what the old one did it's not going to change anything at all so it's not going to

[2:19:02] Voice 17: solve anything unless we should maybe request that that term not be used in the legal opinion

[2:19:08] Voice 17: we can't it's

[2:19:09] Voice 17: part of the local

[2:19:09] Trustee Elliott: government act it's it's it needs to be understood by people

[2:19:13] Trustee Elliott: who do land use planning and write regulations and lawyers there is no changing terminology

[2:19:19] Trustee Elliott: no grandfathering is a grant is a large collective term but how the practice of

[2:19:25] Trustee Elliott: um ensuring legal non-conforming may be specifically differentiated in certain

[2:19:31] Trustee Elliott: circumstances so we can't just say grandfathering that is not an appropriate term it has a legal

[2:19:37] Trustee Elliott: it has a different legal concept but it doesn't have a legal um to my understanding it doesn't

[2:19:43] Trustee Elliott: have a legal standing.

[2:19:47] Voice 17: It's a

[2:19:52] Trustee Evans: layman's term to describe legal non-conformity.

[2:20:00] Trustee Evans: So

[2:20:01] Trustee Elliott: let's get to how can we make things clear and not ambiguous. Let's get back to what is it that

[2:20:10] Trustee Elliott: that you wanted to see is what you called a clause is actually part of the regulations section six

[2:20:18] Trustee Elliott: you want that amended to the recommendation from the APC

[2:20:23] Trustee Evans: but I'd like that sort of

[2:20:26] Trustee Evans: included in section five rather than at the spike clause I'd like it because if we're having the two

[2:20:33] Trustee Evans: tables um it we have to have that definition with the two tables not after because each section can

[2:20:40] Trustee Evans: be looked at individually so it's very important if we do have the two tables that that definition

[2:20:45] Trustee Evans: is within that section you

[2:20:50] Trustee Elliott: got that yep i get it yep i do excellent yeah mine like a steel trap

[2:20:56] Trustee Elliott: she's getting all this yeah and

[2:20:57] Voice 21: she remains with what i'm saying absolutely yeah so i understand

[2:21:01] Voice 21: and speaking that and adding it to the beginning of the table one and then there's the option and

[2:21:08] Voice 21: then there'll be table two and i could also come back with the option of the detached garage as

[2:21:14] Voice 21: well yeah

[2:21:15] Trustee Evans: as a consideration yeah and

[2:21:17] Trustee Evans: so the end result of that suggestion is that anyone that had

[2:21:22] Trustee Evans: a larger pre-built home prior to that date yes yeah is it's in it's in here they're they're good

[2:21:30] Trustee Evans: but they cannot add on they cannot make any larger unless they come for a variance because that

[2:21:35] Trustee Evans: language prevents that anyone that's going to rebuild yeah they can choose the larger of the

[2:21:41] Trustee Evans: house that they currently got or the updated whatever whatever yeah yeah so it's it achieves

[2:21:49] Trustee Evans: i think what the previous trustees were aiming for and i think it also achieves what community

[2:21:55] Trustee Evans: members have been asking for steve do you concur yes great

[2:22:00] Trustee Elliott: okay excellent and no arguments with

[2:22:03] Trustee Elliott: can we talk about the actual um limits to floor area or do we want to stay on language and um

[2:22:18] Trustee Elliott: the options i guess we're just asking you to bring back options yeah

[2:22:22] Voice 21: i think at this point

[2:22:23] Voice 21: you know it's a lot to take in and i think that what i'm hearing is you want more information

[2:22:28] Voice 21: you want more options to from what i'm hearing right now um and i think that we should due to

[2:22:35] Voice 21: of time. I don't think I would even go into the legislative requirements yet. I would still like

[2:22:42] Voice 21: a motion. We should look at the project charter in terms of timeline and budget. So I would ask

[2:22:48] Voice 21: the LTC to consider the recommendations that I've made for you there. And that's to schedule

[2:22:53] Voice 21: a community information meeting because the next LTC meeting is until May. And

[2:23:01] Voice 21: so it may be

[2:23:01] Voice 21: worthwhile holding a meeting early april either electronically or here so we can come back to this

[2:23:10] Voice 21: what pages are that that's from

[2:23:12] Voice 21: 47 40 yeah 42 is the recommendations but 47 has the timelines

[2:23:18] Voice 21: yes so there is recommendation for a cim and the second recommendation is to change the timeline

[2:23:25] Voice 21: and the budget to the project charter so maybe that's now we should take a look at the project

[2:23:29] Voice 21: charter

[2:23:29] Trustee Evans: first things first i think we have to also agree whether or not we're going to hold the um

[2:23:37] Trustee Evans: public hearing or not and i also want to so that has we have to have that discussion before we

[2:23:43] Trustee Evans: look at our options but i also want to read out um because you put in um i think it was uh

[2:23:52] Trustee Evans: 34.3, no, no, hold on, that's the wrong one, let me go into this one, yeah, so you quoted two,

[2:24:04] Trustee Evans: but there's two more requirements in here, a local government must not hold a public hearing

[2:24:12] Trustee Evans: on a proposed by-law zoning if an official community plan is in effect for the area of the

[2:24:16] Trustee Evans: subject zoning by-law, and the by-law is consistent with the OCP, and the sole purpose of the by-law

[2:24:22] Trustee Evans: to permit a development that is or in part a residential development and the residential

[2:24:29] Trustee Evans: component of the development accounts for at least half of the gross law area of the buildings

[2:24:33] Trustee Evans: and other structures as proposed as part of the development and there's another one that also says

[2:24:38] Trustee Evans: that we must not hold a public hearing if the sole purpose of it is complying with the zoning

[2:24:42] Trustee Evans: bylaws and small-scale multifamily homes this

[2:24:45] Trustee Elliott: is not increasing dwellings though this is all about

[2:24:49] Trustee Elliott: place only. I think the intent of not holding a public hearing was to speed up the process of

[2:24:57] Trustee Elliott: what I'm

[2:24:57] Trustee Evans: saying housing yeah so what I'm saying is one section was quoted

[2:25:01] Trustee Evans: that if that was not that it's not required the other two states you must not yes so

[2:25:10] Voice 21: as you're looking at the local government act yes section 4643 a local government government

[2:25:17] Voice 21: government must not hold a public hearing on a proposed bylaw if yes

[2:25:21] Trustee Evans: yeah so there's there's two

[2:25:22] Trustee Evans: must nots and one is not required um and i think because we are following the ocp we've taken that

[2:25:34] Trustee Evans: into account the trust policy statement into account and this is residential development

[2:25:40] Trustee Evans: my question is is this a must not or a not required that's a good question i would have

[2:25:47] Trustee Evans: have to double check on that yeah and so regardless i would like to have a community information

[2:25:53] Trustee Evans: meeting except can you do that if we must not we can have a community information meeting is the

[2:25:59] Trustee Evans: public hearing that's a must not so um we can either then change the second community information

[2:26:07] Trustee Evans: meeting to be the public hearing but we have to but the thing is we have to make that decision

[2:26:13] Trustee Evans: before first reading so

[2:26:16] Voice 21: actually i'm seeing it in section two where it says a local government

[2:26:21] Voice 21: is not required to hold a public hearing on proposed zoning bylaw if an ocp is in effect

[2:26:27] Voice 21: for the area and the subject of the of the zoning bylaw and the bylaw is consistent with the

[2:26:32] Voice 21: official community plan yeah section three that actually doesn't comply to this scenario as you're

[2:26:37] Voice 21: right because it doesn't meet um c and d

[2:26:40] Voice 6: so

[2:26:41] Voice 21: it actually is a local government is not required to

[2:26:44] Voice 21: yeah so you have the option of holding one but you don't have to yeah

[2:26:48] Trustee Evans: yeah yeah so what how do

[2:26:51] Trustee Evans: you feel do you want that public hearing or do you just want to have the two community information

[2:26:56] Trustee Evans: meetings but

[2:27:02] Trustee Elliott: if that's okay i'd like to chair the meeting

[2:27:05] Trustee Evans: i'm asking i'm asking the question

[2:27:24] Trustee Elliott: Does the LTC want to hold a public hearing knowing that it's an option but not required?

[2:27:31] Voice 21: Chair may I? Yes I think just to add some pros and cons so a little bit more context into this so

[2:27:37] Voice 21: So a notice for holding first reading.

[2:27:42] Voice 21: We've done this a few times with previous LTCs

[2:27:45] Voice 21: and we recommend the community information meeting

[2:27:47] Voice 21: right before first reading.

[2:27:49] Voice 1: So it

[2:27:49] Voice 21: kind of acts like a de facto public hearing.

[2:27:51] Voice 21: There's still an opportunity for the community

[2:27:53] Voice 21: to ask questions and then state their opinion.

[2:27:56] Voice 21: The benefit of not holding a public hearing

[2:27:58] Voice 21: is the LTC can still receive comments, right?

[2:28:02] Voice 21: There's no public hearing.

[2:28:03] Voice 6: You

[2:28:03] Voice 21: hold a public hearing

[2:28:04] Voice 21: and after the public hearing closes,

[2:28:06] Voice 21: is the ltc can't hear from the community any new information or if you give notice of first reading

[2:28:11] Voice 21: you're still able to receive that information so that that can be seen as a positive um also

[2:28:18] Voice 21: by not holding a public hearing and giving notice of first reading the ltc has the ability to give

[2:28:24] Voice 21: first reading second reading third reading and sending the bylaw to ec in one meeting

[2:28:30] Voice 21: may not recommend that but it's an option if the LTC considers. So yeah I just wanted to point

[2:28:40] Voice 21: those two things out just because a public hearing is not being held staff always recommend to the

[2:28:46] Voice 21: LTC to have some type of public or engagement for the public to provide their comments.

[2:28:53] Voice 6: Okay

[2:28:53] Trustee Evans: so thank you for that clarification that helps me with what I was getting at. So then I

[2:28:59] Trustee Evans: I would be in favor of not holding the public meeting

[2:29:01] Trustee Evans: and having the two community information meetings

[2:29:04] Trustee Evans: as you proposed, but I would like to make an adjustment.

[2:29:09] Trustee Evans: So if we schedule the special meeting

[2:29:16] Trustee Evans: in late March, early April,

[2:29:18] Trustee Evans: and have the community information meeting then,

[2:29:20] Trustee Evans: can we also have as part of that

[2:29:24] Trustee Evans: a special meeting of the LTC

[2:29:27] Trustee Evans: see so we can conduct first reading at that point because we can still make edits to the draft

[2:29:35] Trustee Evans: but if we have a first reading then it can go forward to First Nations and it can go forward to

[2:29:40] Trustee Evans: wherever else it needs to go to for input while we're also receiving additional

[2:29:46] Trustee Evans: information back if we feel that it's at that point but it gives us that option and it also

[2:29:53] Trustee Evans: gives us the option to ask staff to make any additional edits that come out of that community

[2:29:57] Trustee Evans: information meeting.

[2:30:00] Trustee Elliott: Yeah, what point is the referral to other agencies happening with that?

[2:30:05] Voice 21: Well, and that's it.

[2:30:06] Voice 21: So the referral hasn't been sent off yet because the draft bylaw isn't complete.

[2:30:11] Voice 21: So the referral most likely won't be sent until after that special meeting is held.

[2:30:15] Voice 14: And

[2:30:16] Voice 21: from my understanding, the notice of public hearing is still a legislative requirement

[2:30:21] Voice 21: where you have to put it into the newspaper and circulate it.

[2:30:24] Voice 21: And I believe we may have to have two months to prepare for that,

[2:30:28] Voice 21: similar to a public hearing I would have to confirm that so I would advise

[2:30:32] Voice 21: against getting notice of first reading at your special meeting you could give

[2:30:37] Voice 21: notice of first reading at the main meeting that may be the best so have a

[2:30:42] Voice 21: community information meeting between now and then but

[2:30:44] Voice 21: I would still I would

[2:30:46] Voice 21: need to consider if your referrals are being sent out mid-april you may not

[2:30:54] Voice 21: have your responses in at first reading right could still hold your hold for first reading

[2:31:01] Voice 21: receive those referrals over the spring and summer and come back in september for second reading

[2:31:07] Voice 21: yeah

[2:31:08] Trustee Evans: yeah yeah

[2:31:09] Trustee Evans: because i thought we uh we should have first reading and then um like the edits from

[2:31:16] Trustee Evans: that meeting can go forward get incorporated and then sent out because i know that that affects

[2:31:22] Trustee Evans: the timeline so if it does require two months notice then we can have it um like yeah

[2:31:31] Voice 21: so then

[2:31:32] Voice 21: the schedule as presented on on page 47 of the agenda or six of the stock report would actually

[2:31:38] Voice 21: be what you're what you're mentioning so um yeah first oh pardon me

[2:31:45] Voice 21: so yes we would have to give

[2:31:47] Voice 21: notice of first reading so you would have to formally give notice of first reading today

[2:31:51] Voice 21: Right. Yeah. Right. If you'd like to proceed with that. Yeah.

[2:31:57] Trustee Evans: But yeah, if we can,

[2:31:58] Trustee Evans: if we can have an LTC meeting after the community information meeting to

[2:32:01] Trustee Evans: address any additional edits to the draft, that would be great.

[2:32:07] Trustee Evans: Yep. We can do that.

[2:32:08] Trustee Elliott: Yeah. Okay. All right.

[2:32:11] Trustee Elliott: You know, I'm going to put something out there actually in favor of

[2:32:17] Trustee Elliott: holding a public hearing because one of the benefits,

[2:32:21] Trustee Elliott: and in a process like this where we've had lots of community input things have come in at different

[2:32:26] Trustee Elliott: times multiple submission um it's an evolving process but at some point you have to say we

[2:32:33] Trustee Elliott: have enough information this is the menu of information we're looking at it's referrals

[2:32:39] Trustee Elliott: from first nations you know here's the apc recommendations everybody speaks and has their

[2:32:44] Trustee Elliott: say that's what first reading is for and that's kind of your survey have we hit the mark um is it

[2:32:50] Trustee Elliott: not resonating if it isn't in a contained time and frame there is a danger that community

[2:33:00] Trustee Elliott: information meetings turn into well let's amend the draft bylaw and it kind of keeps going

[2:33:06] Voice 14: if

[2:33:06] Trustee Elliott: you have a draft bylaw and then you have a public hearing that's closed and you move on

[2:33:14] Trustee Elliott: through the process so I am going to say that just there has been so much input already for this

[2:33:23] Trustee Elliott: a you know one month or a single meeting to have that public hearing to really bring everything

[2:33:30] Trustee Elliott: together clarify your thinking make sure we're on the right track and and then give

[2:33:38] Trustee Elliott: it's possibly might help my brain

[2:33:45] Voice 17: maybe I'm misunderstanding but you said I think that a public hearing we can't listen after that

[2:33:52] Voice 17: like we we can't not receive anymore we can't receive it so so what is the benefit to the public

[2:33:59] Voice 17: or of a of a hearing I'm not sure if I understand that the

[2:34:04] Voice 21: benefit is that the public knows that

[2:34:07] Voice 21: after the close of the public hearing that the ltc isn't going to receive any new information

[2:34:12] Voice 21: and then make further amendments on the bylaw that the community hasn't heard so the community

[2:34:18] Voice 21: is the public hearing is an opportunity for the community to see that bylaw as it stands to

[2:34:24] Voice 21: provide their opinions on it at that moment the the ltc still has the option to make amendments

[2:34:31] Voice 21: to a bylaw after public hearing how

[2:34:33] Voice 17: could we do that if we can as long

[2:34:34] Voice 21: as as long as it doesn't

[2:34:36] Voice 21: make changes to use and density so you can actually after a public hearing i mean i know

[2:34:42] Voice 21: we're going down the rabbit hole and i don't necessarily want me to do that it's

[2:34:47] Trustee Elliott: not a real

[2:34:47] Trustee Elliott: to make amendments after right you want to you basically you want to have it the table is set

[2:34:52] Trustee Elliott: here's all the information this is the information on which we're making our decision and then you

[2:34:57] Trustee Elliott: close the door and say we're not going to receive i'm not going to put anything else on the table

[2:35:00] Trustee Elliott: to reconsider right so it makes it a more fair process because everyone in the community and

[2:35:06] Trustee Elliott: and trustees understand and can see everything in one contained event

[2:35:11] Trustee Evans: so my only thought there

[2:35:14] Trustee Evans: which we ran into um in the last bylaw was we didn't receive first nations input until after

[2:35:19] Trustee Evans: post public hearing so we couldn't receive it

[2:35:22] Trustee Elliott: that's

[2:35:25] Trustee Evans: where i'm going that that was my first

[2:35:27] Trustee Evans: thought yeah

[2:35:27] Trustee Elliott: and there's no referrals um to first nations in this uh in this

[2:35:39] Voice 21: where does

[2:35:40] Trustee Elliott: that appear after first reading typically i

[2:35:44] Voice 21: know we can send off the draft

[2:35:45] Voice 21: bylaw so that would happen after the after the ltc is given direction on which way you'd like

[2:35:51] Voice 21: to go to your area and we have kind of a big draft bylaw then that would be deferred to first

[2:35:56] Voice 21: nations and agencies so

[2:35:59] Trustee Elliott: we get the draft bylaw how the community information meeting really

[2:36:03] Trustee Elliott: understands and that goes out for referral once the edits from that meeting have been once we get

[2:36:09] Trustee Elliott: in once we get input that's still two months at least because we're trying to give a longer

[2:36:13] Trustee Elliott: referral window over the summer so over the summer come back in september yeah and you hold another

[2:36:21] Trustee Elliott: community information meeting and you

[2:36:25] Voice 21: could if you want but at that point it depends if you have

[2:36:27] Voice 21: first reading at the main meeting you can still

[2:36:30] Voice 21: get first reading because there's still an

[2:36:32] Voice 21: opportunity for the ltc to make amendments while you're receiving the referral comments over the

[2:36:37] Voice 21: summer yeah that may change your opinion on a few things so when you come back in september

[2:36:42] Voice 21: you can still make amendments to that bylaw it's only been in first reading

[2:36:46] Voice 21: amendments and then you can give a second and even third reading if you like at that time

[2:36:52] Voice 21: so i just want to ensure the ltc that even though you would be giving first reading to a bylaw it's

[2:36:57] Voice 21: not semi-stone there's still opportunity for community to comment by writing in letters the

[2:37:03] Voice 21: ltc may decide to hold an additional cim and they'll just see the ability to make amendments

[2:37:09] Voice 21: yep

[2:37:10] Voice 16: but slowly a trigger for not having the ability to make amendments is the public hearing

[2:37:16] Voice 21: generally um when it comes to use and density the ltc can't make any further changes after the

[2:37:24] Voice 21: public hearing but nothing

[2:37:26] Voice 21: you can make other you can

[2:37:27] Trustee Elliott: nothing in this amendment is changing use or

[2:37:30] Trustee Elliott: density no

[2:37:32] Voice 17: okay so we can't change everything

[2:37:34] Trustee Elliott: you can yeah it's

[2:37:35] Voice 21: always good practice though to make

[2:37:37] Voice 21: sure you don't do it after public hearing just so so

[2:37:40] Voice 17: what's the what's the benefit to our public

[2:37:44] Voice 17: of the of the hearing it

[2:37:48] Trustee Elliott: it is a line in the sand it is it's

[2:37:52] Voice 17: basically information this is what's

[2:37:55] Voice 17: Yeah,

[2:37:56] Trustee Elliott: so everything before the public hearing is we're getting information, we're considering different angles, we're having a debate. In the public hearing, all you do is listen.

[2:38:05] Trustee Elliott: So you're hearing everybody for, against, I like this, I don't like this, and you get a collective sense of where the community is sitting because everybody is for one purpose. So you can make your decision and give first reading.

[2:38:18] Voice 17: Sorry,

[2:38:19] Trustee Elliott: give first reading.

[2:38:20] Trustee Elliott: no

[2:38:21] Trustee Evans: no it's it'll be a it'll be um second and third meeting at the moment yeah so

[2:38:26] Voice 17: what is the

[2:38:27] Voice 17: trigger by which we're not supposed to make any changes even if it's recommended on after

[2:38:33] Trustee Evans: public hearings so after public hearing we can no longer receive any additional

[2:38:38] Trustee Evans: public feedback the conversation

[2:38:40] Voice 17: we receive it during the hearing yes

[2:38:43] Trustee Evans: yes that's the purpose

[2:38:44] Trustee Elliott: as a

[2:38:44] Voice 17: public hearing we can use that information we can

[2:38:48] Voice 17: even

[2:38:49] Trustee Elliott: draft yes we can make changes in that

[2:38:51] Trustee Elliott: meeting prior to secondary yes but it will stop the flow of input yeah right because after that

[2:39:01] Trustee Elliott: point you're not receiving any more information and i think that's where this community is kind

[2:39:06] Trustee Elliott: of saturated with this conversation is what i'm hearing we need to move

[2:39:13] Trustee Evans: on like i said my only

[2:39:14] Trustee Evans: any concern would be making sure that we hear about impersonations because last

[2:39:18] Trustee Evans: time and especially

[2:39:20] Trustee Evans: like over the summer there's a lot of activities going on yeah absolutely so that that was that

[2:39:28] Trustee Evans: was my one reluctant step all the public hearing and cut off information i would like to hear

[2:39:33] Trustee Evans: impersonations and that's on the blog

[2:39:36] Voice 6: so

[2:39:40] Trustee Elliott: both of these are going to land us at the same timeline

[2:39:43] Trustee Elliott: line it's just not holding a public hearing holding a public hearing does the LTC want to

[2:39:50] Trustee Elliott: hold a special meeting for community members in March or April 2025 okay and then do we want to

[2:40:00] Trustee Elliott: give direction to staff to give notice of first reading for yeah to the May meeting and May we

[2:40:08] Trustee Elliott: give first reading to drop them and then proceed through the public hearing

[2:40:13] Voice 21: I would

[2:40:14] Voice 21: follow the

[2:40:14] Trustee Elliott: hearing after notice.

[2:40:17] Trustee Evans: No, so either or.

[2:40:19] Trustee Evans: So it's either, follow the schedule as presented, but it's either with public hearing or with

[2:40:23] Trustee Evans: And through

[2:40:26] Voice 21: the Chair, with the schedule that I provided where you're giving notice of first

[2:40:31] Voice 21: reading, I actually put that in for the September meeting.

[2:40:36] Voice 21: But that can be changed, like I said, you could give direction for notice of first reading

[2:40:42] Voice 21: to me or the main meeting and I can find

[2:40:45] Trustee Evans: a job promotion yeah I would prefer that I don't like

[2:40:49] Trustee Evans: giving first second and third reading in the same meeting I think that uh that creates a lot of

[2:40:56] Trustee Evans: community anxiety your first reading have the space have the input coming in and have the

[2:41:03] Trustee Evans: option to to do any additional changes prior to a second and third meeting

[2:41:07] Voice 6: so

[2:41:09] Trustee Elliott: honestly I think the

[2:41:10] Trustee Elliott: second process is what I'm hearing thank

[2:41:13] Voice 21: you chair and I must so if we're going

[2:41:17] Voice 21: back to the recommendations the first one there I noticed that I said to

[2:41:22] Voice 21: schedule a community information meeting should say community information meeting

[2:41:26] Voice 21: and a special meeting really a special meeting is what we're scheduling yes and

[2:41:31] Voice 21: then number two you can state that the South Pender LTC amend the project

[2:41:36] Voice 21: project charter to reflect um the project giving notice of first reading for the may

[2:41:44] Voice 21: meeting i think that would clarify for me to change um and we also want to just take a look

[2:41:49] Voice 21: at the budget to ensure that you agree um the budget is on page 49 of the agenda and it just

[2:41:59] Voice 21: it's the change of dates or years

[2:42:01] Trustee Evans: i should say yeah

[2:42:02] Voice 21: um so those would be the changes i would

[2:42:05] Voice 21: make is that a community information meeting would there be a budget of actually 500 and then a notice

[2:42:11] Voice 21: of what's being a budget of 2500 the reason why that's high is because we have to put in notice to

[2:42:18] Voice 21: newspaper and so forth um the ltc may want to consider holding um first reading at a larger

[2:42:28] Voice 21: venue as well yeah so that's why the budget is high to yeah i would say code

[2:42:34] Trustee Evans: uh i'd say not

[2:42:35] Trustee Evans: let's do the anglican church again yes a purple

[2:42:38] Trustee Evans: church right um so

[2:42:41] Voice 21: that's a consideration as well

[2:42:43] Voice 21: that we would have to make it to these meetings i know we're crunched for time so

[2:42:46] Trustee Elliott: you want to ask

[2:42:47] Trustee Elliott: staff to schedule a special meeting in march or april 2025 yep and then following that to amend

[2:42:53] Trustee Elliott: the project charter to give first reading at the main meeting and explore

[2:42:56] Trustee Evans: alternate venues but i

[2:42:58] Trustee Evans: think we still have to decide if we're doing the public hearing and we haven't decided that yet

[2:43:02] Trustee Evans: do we want to do but do we want to defer these decisions until after claire's um because she's

[2:43:07] Trustee Evans: waiting for

[2:43:08] Trustee Elliott: us isn't she not if if we have a special meeting you can make the decision then

[2:43:12] Trustee Elliott: to schedule a public hearing for the way no

[2:43:15] Trustee Evans: um i think we needed to make that decision so we need

[2:43:19] Voice 6: We have

[2:43:19] Trustee Evans: to decide before we schedule the first hearing, first reading.

[2:43:24] Trustee Elliott: Okay.

[2:43:26] Trustee Elliott: I'm for a public hearing just because it's, I'm not controlling the process.

[2:43:33] Trustee Evans: I understand that, but it landed us in problems with First Nations and I think it's important to hear from them, so I'm not.

[2:43:44] Voice 17: Well, I'd like to hear from the community, but we have heard from the community and I think we've heard a lot.

[2:43:53] Voice 6: and I

[2:43:54] Voice 17: don't know that we're going to make changes that late in the game

[2:43:58] Voice 6: when

[2:43:59] Voice 17: that public hearing

[2:44:00] Voice 17: would be happening. So I just don't quite see the benefit for people to be able to voice it

[2:44:10] Voice 17: one more time, whatever they're wanting to voice. So I don't know, I mean I don't want to take away

[2:44:16] Voice 17: the opportunities if they feel strongly about that.

[2:44:19] Trustee Evans: And we don't hear from First Nations

[2:44:23] Trustee Evans: So if we want to hear from First Nations, then we don't have a public hearing.

[2:44:30] Trustee Evans: That's the only way that we can hear information from First Nations.

[2:44:34] Voice 6: We

[2:44:34] Trustee Evans: cannot receive any additional information post public hearing that includes First Nations.

[2:44:42] Voice 17: Right. I'm not opposed to hearing otherwise, but I would probably be preferring it otherwise, but I think that limitation that it puts on us, that limitation is caused by us.

[2:45:00] Trustee Evans: My question to staff would be, is this a reasonable amount of time to hear back from First Nations given our history of responses from them?

[2:45:11] Voice 21: so we would be sending out the referral mid to end of april so it'd give you may june july august

[2:45:19] Voice 21: to receive so it'd be four months yep

[2:45:21] Trustee Evans: and that's okay if

[2:45:22] Trustee Evans: that is a reasonable amount of time then

[2:45:24] Trustee Evans: i will be okay with the public hearing i just don't want to repeat of what happened last time

[2:45:30] Trustee Evans: right of course okay

[2:45:32] Voice 6: so

[2:45:32] Trustee Evans: that that's that's my concern and if that's if that's being reasonable

[2:45:36] Trustee Evans: then i will vote for a public hearing so

[2:45:38] Trustee Elliott: you want to do it or i'm not caring and trust you

[2:45:42] Trustee Elliott: so if you're still

[2:45:42] Voice 17: i'm either way i'm

[2:45:44] Voice 17: okay either way so i don't yeah

[2:45:45] Voice 17: all

[2:45:46] Trustee Elliott: right i move

[2:45:52] Trustee Evans: that the south pender ltc um uh adopts the schedule as as presented with a public hearing

[2:46:04] Trustee Evans: and an amendment to include a community information meeting with the special

[2:46:11] Trustee Evans: meeting in March or April okay

[2:46:15] Trustee Elliott: so I'm just gonna check in with the minute

[2:46:17] Trustee Elliott: taker so that the LTC requests staff to follow the normal public hearing

[2:46:27] Trustee Elliott: statutory process and hold a special meeting in March or April 2025 sorry

[2:46:37] Trustee Elliott: Sure. Thank you. Climb Stockdale, save me.

[2:46:38] Trustee Elliott: Yeah.

[2:46:39] Voice 21: So I think for this motion, if I may, let's just focus on creating a motion for scheduling this special meeting.

[2:46:46] Voice 6: Let's

[2:46:47] Voice 21: do that. And then the second motion would be to amend the project charter to include the timeline for a public hearing and adopt the budget.

[2:46:57] Voice 21: The LTC wouldn't be giving staff direction to schedule a public hearing. That can be done at the main meeting.

[2:47:05] Voice 21: Sorry, amend the project charter to include a public hearing and?

[2:47:09] Voice 21: And amend the budget as shown in the staff report dated February 14, 2025.

[2:47:15] Trustee Evans: Do we not need to have something in there to ask staff to release notice of first reading?

[2:47:23] Trustee Evans: No.

[2:47:24] Trustee Evans: No?

[2:47:24] Trustee Evans: No.

[2:47:25] Trustee Evans: Okay.

[2:47:25] Voice 21: No.

[2:47:26] Voice 21: Because the project charter will change to reflect that you'll be holding a public hearing

[2:47:32] Voice 21: and there's no form you don't have there's no formality right now indicating that you decide

[2:47:36] Voice 21: not to give notice of first reading we don't have to we don't so we don't give notice of first

[2:47:41] Voice 21: reading no if

[2:47:42] Voice 6: you're

[2:47:43] Voice 21: going through the if you're going through the public hearing process you do

[2:47:46] Voice 21: not have to give notice of first reading okay

[2:47:49] Voice 6: but

[2:47:51] Voice 21: we can still schedule first reading first

[2:47:53] Voice 21: what would most likely happen is we'll schedule that special meeting in april we can collect

[2:47:58] Voice 21: further comments i'm hoping at that point the ltc can give direction to staff to finalize the draft

[2:48:04] Voice 21: file i'll send it out for referrals right away and i can bring it back to the main meeting for first

[2:48:09] Voice 21: reading so you

[2:48:10] Voice 21: can get first reading and still receive those referrals over summer perfect and

[2:48:15] Voice 21: then yeah okay that's good so

[2:48:18] Trustee Elliott: do you want to read it out because you've got it sure i know that the

[2:48:21] Trustee Elliott: The South Bender LTC requests staff to schedule a special meeting in March or April 2025 regarding draft by-law 129.

[2:48:37] Trustee Elliott: Yep, okay.

[2:48:39] Trustee Elliott: Nice second.

[2:48:40] Trustee Elliott: Seconded by Trustee...

[2:48:43] Trustee Elliott: This one.

[2:48:46] Trustee Elliott: Sorry, Evans.

[2:48:48] Trustee Elliott: Frank just took a dive.

[2:48:51] Trustee Elliott: um second of my trusty evan any discussion on special meeting in march or april

[2:48:56] Trustee Elliott: i

[2:48:56] Voice 17: have to phone my wife and ask her because i this is way beyond me

[2:49:01] Trustee Elliott: it's getting beyond me too all right i'm confident about all those in favor

[2:49:05] Trustee Elliott: that is carried i move that uh south pender ltc request staff to amend the project

[2:49:12] Trustee Elliott: charter to include a public hearing and amend the budget as shown in the staff report

[2:49:19] Trustee Elliott: for the february 14th 2025 meeting a second that clear and minute taker do you have that

[2:49:28] Trustee Elliott: okay um thank you seconded by trustee evans any further discussion all those in favor

[2:49:38] Trustee Elliott: and that is carried thank you

[2:49:41] Trustee Evans: we have a process and then after claire's can i come back to

[2:49:45] Trustee Evans: the rest of the edits that i'd like to have included in the web draft yes right did you

[2:49:51] Trustee Evans: say she's the one

[2:49:51] Voice 21: that did she's had joined um electronically now hi

[2:49:56] Trustee Elliott: claire good afternoon

[2:49:58] Trustee Elliott: director freighter good afternoon ltc hello okay i'm just gonna try to turn the volume up okay

[2:50:07] Trustee Elliott: sorry for making you wait there no problem please

[2:50:11] Voice 18: let me know when you're ready for me to proceed

[2:50:13] Voice 18: Yeah,

[2:50:14] Trustee Elliott: so we are on In New Business, 17.1, page 68 of your agendas. We're considering phase four community engagement options on the policy statement amendment projects. Take it away, Director Freider.

[2:50:27] Voice 18: Thank you very much. So today, this staff report is before you because we're preparing for eventual first reading of the policy statement currently expected around June.

[2:50:38] Voice 18: excuse me and the project charter is calling for a six-month engagement window

[2:50:42] Voice 18: and during that time the bylaw I'm sorry I've been sitting here waiting um will be referred

[2:50:47] Voice 18: to the LTCs for comment and we're looking to understand how the self-spender LTC would like

[2:50:53] Voice 18: to gather feedback from their community to inform their response to this referral

[2:51:01] Voice 18: um in this context um the question is for you to consider is what kind of information do you need

[2:51:06] Voice 18: need to inform your response back to Trust Council.

[2:51:09] Voice 18: You are the last local trust committee to be asked this question.

[2:51:13] Voice 18: On page two of the staff report,

[2:51:15] Voice 18: you'll find the suite of options to put together for you to consider.

[2:51:21] Voice 18: We wanted to let you know that regardless of which option you choose,

[2:51:25] Voice 18: your constituents are still free to share their opinion with Trust Council directly

[2:51:29] Voice 18: and we'll be putting on a dedicated survey and for this purpose.

[2:51:35] Voice 18: so I'm happy to take any questions and yeah write any additional information that you need

[2:51:41] Voice 18: thank you greater

[2:51:44] Trustee Evans: questions I'm in favor of option four which is the staff-led community

[2:51:49] Trustee Evans: information meeting prior to a regular LTC meeting so that we'll have staff in here that

[2:51:55] Trustee Evans: will be able to answer at a regularly scheduled meeting to help with the costs and I mean

[2:52:03] Voice 6: either

[2:52:03] Trustee Evans: that or it'll be a special meeting so um four or four or five would be would be my option

[2:52:11] Trustee Evans: i'd like to i'd like to see staff here to help address community questions because we can we

[2:52:18] Trustee Evans: can always um answer some of these during our regular meetings as well um so we can but i think

[2:52:25] Trustee Evans: yeah you know what i changed my mind i think i want five which is a special meeting so it'll be

[2:52:32] Voice 6: be

[2:52:32] Trustee Evans: it'll be fully dedicated question

[2:52:36] Trustee Elliott: can we combine with um north pender i don't see why not

[2:52:42] Trustee Elliott: um director freighter do you have a response from north pender as to their reference because i'm

[2:52:49] Trustee Elliott: just thinking yeah i can't remember what the budget was left at for this but i thought i

[2:52:55] Trustee Elliott: remembered you saying there was only two opportunity for two staff-led special meetings or something

[2:53:01] Voice 18: yeah we're gonna have to go back and look at budget because of course it depends on the

[2:53:04] Voice 18: travel demands that are selected by the various ltcs for north pender they have simply selected

[2:53:09] Voice 18: to host a town hall during a regular meeting okay okay so your preference

[2:53:15] Trustee Elliott: is for five trustee falk

[2:53:19] Voice 17: uh well i'm not certain on anything yet but i was back to two and three um

[2:53:27] Voice 17: on having a regular,

[2:53:29] Voice 17: during a regular meeting

[2:53:34] Voice 17: and community information meeting prior.

[2:53:39] Voice 17: So either or of those, I guess, is what I was thinking,

[2:53:42] Voice 17: but I can be persuaded, I think.

[2:53:52] Voice 17: I guess maybe what I'm missing here is what other,

[2:53:58] Voice 17: what information is going out?

[2:54:00] Voice 17: Like, is there written information?

[2:54:01] Voice 17: Is there online information?

[2:54:02] Voice 17: Is there questionnaires or opportunities for people to comment in written form?

[2:54:08] Voice 17: Yeah, good questions.

[2:54:11] Voice 17: That's kind of what I was thinking was important stuff so that everybody has the information

[2:54:16] Voice 17: and is clear and then after that there should be an opportunity if there's a

[2:54:22] Voice 17: wanting for a submission to provide at least one of these options for a meeting in person.

[2:54:26] Voice 17: and having a meeting how you know how best is more to do with kind of our time and scheduling

[2:54:33] Voice 17: matters kind of thing and efficiency and all that sort of stuff okay

[2:54:37] Trustee Elliott: so do you want to ask

[2:54:38] Trustee Elliott: director freighter what kind of materials we'll have on hand yeah

[2:54:42] Voice 17: i would like to ask you clara

[2:54:43] Voice 17: um

[2:54:45] Voice 18: certainly we're preparing a whole suite of communication support materials for the project

[2:54:52] Voice 18: we haven't yet determined precisely what would be available in a ltc meeting because of course

[2:54:57] Voice 18: we've just we've just been in the process collecting what the demand might be but we'll

[2:55:01] Voice 18: provide there will be a robust amount of information available to the community um we're talking you

[2:55:06] Voice 18: know videos fact sheets online material all kinds of stuff will be available um we think we should

[2:55:12] Voice 18: answer most questions that are out there um as i hear the conversation i think a question for you

[2:55:17] Voice 18: to discuss is would you like staff in attendance or would you like to be the primary conduit to

[2:55:21] Voice 18: the community in terms of taking questions and providing answers

[2:55:24] Voice 6: for

[2:55:26] Trustee Evans: me i thought it was a good

[2:55:28] Trustee Evans: idea to have staff here um but i mean we've got three of us that have sat through a lot of the

[2:55:34] Trustee Evans: cal meetings so we should be able to address most questions but maybe if we've got a staff member

[2:55:42] Trustee Evans: via video call to address questions that are you know a little difficult for us to answer that

[2:55:48] Trustee Evans: that might be useful

[2:55:49] Voice 6: so

[2:55:50] Trustee Evans: that you know not necessarily have to have them here but maybe

[2:55:54] Trustee Evans: via video you

[2:55:58] Voice 17: know for me the staff led kind of indicates more you know it's a perspective of the

[2:56:05] Voice 17: staff that comes out and i think that we should have ownership of all the statements you know

[2:56:10] Voice 17: the trustees so i think we should present it but i think

[2:56:13] Voice 17: that staff should be available for

[2:56:15] Voice 17: answering questions that are more technical that we may not have at the tip of our

[2:56:20] Trustee Elliott: ability would

[2:56:22] Trustee Elliott: that be possible director freighter is um have staff um let's say if a meeting was scheduled

[2:56:28] Trustee Elliott: before during or after a regular ltc meeting um could staff be on hand to answer questions that

[2:56:37] Trustee Elliott: we can't electronically that would cut down on travel and expenses certainly yeah okay

[2:56:47] Trustee Evans: and i

[2:56:47] Trustee Evans: I think nothing precludes us from holding additional town hall meetings.

[2:56:54] Trustee Elliott: Yeah,

[2:56:54] Trustee Evans: trustees can absolutely do that.

[2:56:56] Trustee Elliott: Yeah, welcome to convene informal gatherings.

[2:57:00] Trustee Elliott: But to use project funds, we do need a formal structure.

[2:57:05] Trustee Elliott: I'm actually leaning towards, and I just want to ask about the timing.

[2:57:12] Trustee Elliott: If we were to do it over two regularly scheduled business meetings,

[2:57:19] Trustee Elliott: is that during the six month engagement period and then the ltc would say okay we have enough

[2:57:27] Trustee Elliott: information we're going to send this is for our ltc referral or response yeah um

[2:57:32] Trustee Elliott: because i think

[2:57:33] Trustee Elliott: if we had two sessions within our regular business meeting a would give us something

[2:57:38] Trustee Elliott: different to talk about a little bit yeah um and we can fold it into yeah

[2:57:45] Trustee Evans: yeah i don't know

[2:57:47] Trustee Evans: So we can allocate an hour to a town hall

[2:57:49] Trustee Evans: typically dedicated to the TPS?

[2:57:52] Trustee Evans: Yeah.

[2:57:53] Trustee Evans: For two

[2:57:54] Trustee Elliott: consecutive business meetings.

[2:57:56] Trustee Elliott: Because then you've got time, input, think about it,

[2:58:00] Trustee Elliott: another chance for input.

[2:58:02] Trustee Elliott: Potentially, it

[2:58:02] Trustee Evans: could even be as early as our special meeting.

[2:58:07] Trustee Elliott: Yeah.

[2:58:08] Trustee Elliott: June, I think we're doing first.

[2:58:10] Trustee Elliott: Oh, to do first meeting.

[2:58:12] Trustee Elliott: Oh, is it June?

[2:58:12] Trustee Elliott: I thought we were aiming.

[2:58:13] Trustee Elliott: Is that true, Director Freyder?

[2:58:15] Trustee Elliott: We're aiming for June.

[2:58:17] Voice 18: i would look

[2:58:18] Voice 6: to the officials on

[2:58:20] Voice 18: that currently that's what was mentioned at the december trust

[2:58:23] Voice 18: council meeting but i'm staff for we await your direction as council as to where you land and how

[2:58:28] Voice 18: fast you wish to travel there speeding like turtles yeah

[2:58:33] Trustee Evans: and i think that's why we why we

[2:58:34] Trustee Evans: migrated to uh having the cow meetings every second week so we can get to a place by march

[2:58:40] Trustee Evans: trust council meeting where we're going to be close i think we were trying to bring it forward

[2:58:46] Trustee Evans: as much as we could that was the um so

[2:58:50] Trustee Elliott: do you both agree that during our regular business

[2:58:53] Trustee Elliott: meetings that we set aside some time yeah and we devoted to hearing and providing information on

[2:58:59] Trustee Elliott: the policy statement during our regular ltc meetings

[2:59:02] Trustee Evans: yeah okay and if needed um i think

[2:59:05] Trustee Evans: we as trustees can individually meet with people who have additional questions we can

[2:59:09] Trustee Evans: we can come and sit here and be ready for any additional questions on a saturday

[2:59:14] Trustee Evans: just bring

[2:59:15] Trustee Evans: cookies oh don't

[2:59:16] Trustee Evans: make me bring cookies do

[2:59:18] Trustee Elliott: you have what you need or

[2:59:21] Voice 18: do you want a

[2:59:21] Trustee Elliott: resolution we

[2:59:22] Voice 18: would very much like a resolution please to add to the staff reports so it looks

[2:59:26] Trustee Elliott: like actually option two trustee falk all right trustee evans you haven't made an motion today

[2:59:33] Voice 17: yep i move that can i just read the option description or

[2:59:38] Trustee Elliott: yeah so i've been able to see

[2:59:40] Trustee Elliott: Oh, sorry, the recommendation at the top of page 68, just for the wording.

[2:59:48] Voice 6: Yeah, right there.

[2:59:50] Voice 17: Okay.

[2:59:54] Voice 17: I recommend the motion to make a motion that the soft-pander.

[3:00:00] Voice 17: LTC select engagement option number two for phase four community engagement of the new draft islands trust policy statement.

[3:00:13] Voice 6: Excellent.

[3:00:14] Trustee Elliott: Moved. Seconded. Seconded

[3:00:19] Trustee Evans: by Trustee Evans. Any questions?

[3:00:20] Trustee Evans: question and so on uh in a town hall versus a cam a

[3:00:26] Voice 6: town

[3:00:27] Trustee Evans: hall we can respond but a community

[3:00:30] Trustee Evans: information meeting we're just receiving oh is that or we respond in both you can respond both

[3:00:36] Trustee Evans: okay just just

[3:00:37] Trustee Evans: i was just pointing to that application i just want to make sure that

[3:00:39] Trustee Evans: we're able to get the dialogue going back and forth for sure and and which one is a little

[3:00:44] Trustee Evans: bit more less formal

[3:00:45] Trustee Elliott: big town halls can be less formal less formal perfect yay great move seconded

[3:00:52] Trustee Elliott: any discussion all right one call for the vote any all those in favor and that is carried thank

[3:00:58] Trustee Elliott: you director frader very

[3:01:00] Trustee Evans: much enjoy your weekend everyone

[3:01:01] Trustee Evans: thanks happy happy uh where are we i was

[3:01:04] Trustee Evans: gonna say halloween it's not halloween what is it it's valentine's happy valentine's

[3:01:12] Trustee Elliott: all right back into the land use bylaw amendment project okay 43 ish

[3:01:21] Trustee Elliott: great making good progress so we've made amendments to the charter staff's going to

[3:01:28] Trustee Elliott: come back with more options for the floor area size tables but we're

[3:01:38] Trustee Evans: all pretty much

[3:01:39] Trustee Evans: finished here no i've got i've

[3:01:40] Trustee Elliott: got more edits okay right yeah yeah staff is bringing back options on

[3:01:46] Trustee Elliott: everything that we discussed for further conversation over

[3:01:52] Trustee Evans: to your um okay so now

[3:01:54] Trustee Evans: this is where i've got a slew of edits and i'm going to group them together and we can discuss

[3:01:59] Trustee Evans: them as we go and then make a motion at the end for all of them as a lump can

[3:02:05] Trustee Elliott: you tell us what

[3:02:06] Trustee Elliott: section you're in so you can follow along i'm in page

[3:02:08] Trustee Evans: four of the bylaws okay so i'm going to take

[3:02:12] Trustee Evans: us a second here and this is regarding the basement and so this part of definitions the

[3:02:18] Trustee Evans: basement floor area of which we have no reference within our bylaw i i'd like to me that that get

[3:02:26] Trustee Evans: get deleted.

[3:02:36] Voice 6: So under

[3:02:41] Trustee Evans: definitions where it's a basement floor area there is no mention or use of basement

[3:02:48] Trustee Evans: floor area within the bylaw as it stands therefore I'm asking that that definition be removed

[3:02:53] Trustee Evans: because it's not used anywhere in here.

[3:02:57] Trustee Elliott: Page four basement floor area.

[3:03:00] Trustee Elliott: I believe that was mentioned. The

[3:03:07] Trustee Evans: next item that I have is on page 11 of the bylaw

[3:03:13] Trustee Evans: which is under part two administration and it's under inspection so it's part two section

[3:03:22] Trustee Evans: three

[3:03:22] Voice 4: number one

[3:03:23] Voice 17: page 11

[3:03:26] Voice 4: of the bylaw administration inspection so I would like to

[3:03:36] Voice 4: to insert after

[3:03:41] Trustee Evans: bylaw is authorized to enter at any reasonable time and after having given

[3:03:48] Trustee Evans: prior notification, I would like to insert there of at least 24 hours written notice.

[3:03:56] Trustee Evans: Is this in the scope of the project?

[3:03:59] Trustee Evans: This is in the scope of our land use and this is LUB minor updates.

[3:04:02] Trustee Evans: updates okay

[3:04:07] Trustee Elliott: i was not anticipating we'd be zooming all over the bylaw but um let me just

[3:04:15] Trustee Elliott: catch up here because there's there is so um there's regional planning committee just finished

[3:04:24] Trustee Elliott: um proposing amendments to a trust council bylaw 5.5.1 which is to do with bylaw enforcement and

[3:04:34] Trustee Elliott: compliance and what is coming for each ltc is a um um an ltc by law enforcement compliance policy

[3:04:49] Trustee Elliott: that would be specific to each ltc and in that it's going to articulate i think we'll have a

[3:04:56] Trustee Elliott: conversation and articulate that i just i thought the scope of our land use by law amendments was

[3:05:03] Trustee Elliott: was limited to yeah

[3:05:05] Voice 21: it should be technical amendments although this type of amendment

[3:05:08] Voice 21: we i would need to comment from bylaw enforcement to see if they support that

[3:05:12] Voice 21: um so it could be very much

[3:05:15] Trustee Evans: technical but something i can come back with this is to bring

[3:05:18] Trustee Evans: us in in alignment with the the ombudsman's report okay that said it had to be a minimum

[3:05:23] Trustee Evans: of 24 hours written notice yep so um we can choose to either do that or not well it might

[3:05:30] Trustee Elliott: be superseded by the trust council yes

[3:05:35] Trustee Evans: until it gets superseded by that i think it's good because

[3:05:39] Trustee Evans: we can still have it in here we've already got this in here it just doesn't say anything about

[3:05:44] Trustee Evans: providing um a minimum amount of notice i'd

[3:05:53] Trustee Elliott: say this is actually beyond a technical amendment

[3:05:56] Trustee Elliott: because there's so many other pieces that have to work together so we do need to get advice from

[3:06:02] Trustee Elliott: the next

[3:06:06] Trustee Evans: piece was uh section 3.3 which is with regards to the 50 foot setbacks

[3:06:13] Trustee Evans: um so similarly with um the house size clause i think we should update the

[3:06:29] Trustee Evans: The 3.3.5, despite subsection, we should have something in there that says the greater of

[3:06:36] Trustee Evans: either, you know, where the current cottage sits, or I have to come up with some wording

[3:06:46] Trustee Evans: there.

[3:06:46] Trustee Evans: Do you see what I'm saying?

[3:06:47] Trustee Evans: So something to mirror that.

[3:06:51] Trustee Elliott: So this is regarding the setback to the C, financial boundary of the C, replacement,

[3:06:58] Trustee Elliott: replacement reconstruction or altered cottage building is not less

[3:07:03] Voice 21: so you would want the

[3:07:04] Voice 21: ability for a property owner to move their house as close as 15 feet no

[3:07:09] Trustee Evans: no no if they have an

[3:07:11] Trustee Evans: if they have an existing house or cottage already situated there yeah that if it has to be

[3:07:19] Trustee Evans: reconstructed they can either rebuild it there yeah or move it further back

[3:07:24] Voice 21: yeah absolutely yeah

[3:07:27] Voice 21: Yeah. And that's the way that it should be.

[3:07:29] Trustee Evans: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I just, I just want the

[3:07:33] Trustee Evans: language to be, um, sort of see

[3:07:36] Trustee Evans: if there's a way we can tweak it to add on.

[3:07:38] Trustee Evans: I'll see if I can do

[3:07:39] Trustee Evans: this.

[3:07:40] Voice 6: Yeah. Um, let's see. So just clarifying

[3:07:51] Trustee Evans: language at 3.3.5. I'm going to come back to

[3:07:55] Trustee Evans: this one but that's a side for a second um oh yes um so section 3.10 where you made some edits

[3:08:11] Trustee Evans: already i'm just going to ask that you that number section number two comes ahead of nothing in the

[3:08:20] Trustee Evans: subsection and change it to nothing in this section prohibits the storage of of a recreational

[3:08:25] Trustee Evans: vehicle that's not being used as a dwelling on a lot because otherwise it's only in regards if

[3:08:30] Trustee Evans: you're building and if you have a recreational vehicle that you use for camping you can't store

[3:08:35] Trustee Evans: it there okay

[3:08:36] Voice 6: so

[3:08:37] Trustee Evans: that's and then the next one is just pause please

[3:08:47] Trustee Elliott: i appreciate the pause

[3:08:50] Trustee Elliott: stick with you okay

[3:08:52] Trustee Evans: the next one is under derelict vehicles number eight

[3:08:55] Trustee Evans: We no longer have current licensed vehicle. Can we strike that?

[3:09:01] Trustee Evans: ICBC doesn't issue them anymore.

[3:09:18] Trustee Elliott: Unlicensed. I'm just trying to think.

[3:09:25] Trustee Elliott: How do you determine what it is for this purpose?

[3:09:29] Trustee Elliott: Motor vehicles are licensed if it does not display motor vehicle number plates in the current licensed vehicle deco.

[3:09:36] Trustee Elliott: so if it doesn't display a license plate number plate or a vehicle license you just want to strike

[3:09:45] Trustee Evans: the current license yeah because icbc doesn't issue them anymore okay so none of the vehicles

[3:09:50] Trustee Evans: will have that license

[3:09:52] Voice 17: expired on your the deco would would tell you that it wasn't expired right

[3:10:02] Voice 17: that's what the deco would do because they

[3:10:04] Voice 17: don't issue them no no i know they used to the purpose

[3:10:07] Voice 17: The purpose for it being in there with the decal is

[3:10:09] Voice 17: for them to be able to say it has to be current, to be determined by the decal.

[3:10:15] Voice 17: So you have to replace the language if it's something that says current.

[3:10:19] Trustee Elliott: Well, there's nothing else that can prove it. Just by walking by the car.

[3:10:24] Trustee Elliott: Well,

[3:10:25] Voice 17: yeah, you can. So the reason they removed the decals is because the police now have scanners that automatically tell every car that drives by what the date is when they're expiring.

[3:10:37] Voice 17: so we won't have that opportunity to get that away from us so we we shouldn't should we be worried

[3:10:44] Voice 17: about how we determine about how we pick it up or should we be determined to be concerned about

[3:10:51] Voice 17: whether it's a valid current registration or not the

[3:10:57] Trustee Evans: only way to do that would be to knock on the

[3:10:58] Trustee Evans: owner's doors and ask them to provide their to

[3:11:00] Voice 17: show them that's irrelevant like what like yeah

[3:11:03] Voice 17: Yeah, if you're suspicious of it or somebody complained about it,

[3:11:08] Voice 17: then, yeah, you knock on the door and you say,

[3:11:10] Voice 17: can you please provide me the insurance, please?

[3:11:11] Voice 17: Yeah,

[3:11:12] Trustee Elliott: by-law enforcement doesn't do drive-by assessments

[3:11:15] Trustee Elliott: and say that vehicle looks like it's derelict.

[3:11:19] Trustee Elliott: There would be a complaint, and then there'd be investigation.

[3:11:22] Trustee Elliott: You talk to the property owner.

[3:11:24] Trustee Elliott: So I think it's just striking that, actually.

[3:11:27] Voice 17: Because you could, even with the old DECO system,

[3:11:30] Voice 17: you could game that system because you can get the DECO

[3:11:32] Voice 17: and then cancel the insurance because they don't give the deco back

[3:11:35] Voice 6: right

[3:11:36] Voice 17: so yeah does that seem

[3:11:42] Voice 4: reasonable to

[3:11:43] Trustee Evans: you okay so

[3:11:44] Voice 4: the next section i'm going to agriculture so section 535

[3:11:54] Voice 4: and i'm

[3:11:56] Trustee Evans: just going to ask a clarifying question of staff we do not have any aor that is less than

[3:12:02] Trustee Evans: four hectares or 10 acres correct we are not allowed to subdivide less than that and i don't

[3:12:07] Trustee Evans: we've got anything smaller than that on South Panda except perhaps for the subdivision that's

[3:12:13] Trustee Evans: just happening that's now going to be common strata ground.

[3:12:19] Voice 21: Yeah I don't know if there's

[3:12:21] Voice 21: anything less than 10 acres there may be a split zone portion of a property that may be less than

[3:12:27] Voice 21: 10 it's 10 acres okay

[3:12:30] Voice 3: so

[3:12:35] Trustee Evans: with that in mind I think that we shouldn't we

[3:12:40] Voice 14: shouldn't

[3:12:42] Trustee Evans: delete the table in its entirety but we should yes I'd like to find out if there is any ALR

[3:12:55] Trustee Evans: less than that because our subdivision says we cannot have ALR less than 10 acres so that's a

[3:13:02] Trustee Evans: that's a good clause to have um but if there is something that exists less than 10 acres we need

[3:13:07] Trustee Evans: to we need to have a table that captures house sizes on alr land that is less than 10 10 10 acres

[3:13:15] Trustee Evans: so that was a clarifying question

[3:13:19] Voice 4: um so can you yeah let me

[3:13:23] Voice 6: be

[3:13:27] Voice 4: referring to the table that's

[3:13:29] Trustee Evans: maximum floor area the one that was removed in its

[3:13:34] Trustee Evans: entirety I'm thinking we actually need to

[3:13:36] Trustee Evans: have something in there and have a table in there but it should be um uh 10 10 acres or greater is

[3:13:46] Trustee Evans: equal to the ALR standard and less than needs to be smaller if we have anything less than it needs

[3:13:53] Trustee Evans: to be smaller

[3:13:53] Voice 6: and

[3:13:56] Trustee Evans: it has to be more in compliance with the sizes that we've got going on

[3:14:08] Voice 4: So

[3:14:09] Trustee Evans: this is a question before I actually suggest any edits here.

[3:14:14] Trustee Evans: I

[3:14:15] Voice 21: can report back at this special meeting with that information.

[3:14:20] Voice 21: Well,

[3:14:20] Trustee Evans: I would like to change that.

[3:14:22] Trustee Evans: What

[3:14:23] Trustee Elliott: is the purpose of putting that back in?

[3:14:27] Trustee Elliott: Because I thought we were just agreeing that if everything complies with the ALR guidelines, it keeps it simple.

[3:14:33] Trustee Elliott: it's under 500 square feet doesn't matter the size it's

[3:14:38] Trustee Evans: 500 um square meters it's like 6 000

[3:14:42] Trustee Evans: square feet so if you've got if you've got something that's within alr because it's on a

[3:14:46] Trustee Evans: split zone but it's only two acres you can still put a 6 000 square foot house in there that's

[3:14:52] Trustee Evans: wrong so i need i need that clarification i'm not comfortable with removing this table in its

[3:14:58] Trustee Evans: entirety. Anything that's above 10 acres, I'm okay with encouraging farm activity and

[3:15:11] Trustee Evans: deferring to what the ALR says. Less than that, we have to make smaller. And I'd like

[3:15:21] Trustee Evans: to then make it the same as what we've got in the rest of our zoning.

[3:15:25] Trustee Evans: it

[3:15:29] Trustee Elliott: had been previously recommended to refer to the agricultural land commission act regulations

[3:15:33] Trustee Elliott: rather than write them up in the land use bylaws since they may change i plan to report back if

[3:15:41] Trustee Elliott: there is a total maximum level four area yeah

[3:15:45] Trustee Evans: so i'm just asking for a clarifying question on there

[3:15:49] Trustee Evans: because i think that's important to know before we do this

[3:16:00] Voice 6: i

[3:16:06] Trustee Elliott: don't understand the issue but i'm

[3:16:09] Trustee Elliott: happy to have more

[3:16:09] Trustee Evans: information come back so I can. Perfect. My second point is the information note.

[3:16:15] Trustee Evans: I'd like to keep that with sighting and size rather than putting it under subdivision lot

[3:16:20] Trustee Evans: requirements or wherever it went. I don't know where it went. Yeah it

[3:16:26] Trustee Evans: went under subdivision

[3:16:27] Trustee Evans: lot requirements. I think we need to keep the information note under sizing and size. So page

[3:16:34] Trustee Evans: Page 30, information note, the maximum floor area of the dwelling.

[3:16:38] Trustee Evans: Keep it there.

[3:16:39] Trustee Evans: Has it gotten moved to subdivision lot size requirements,

[3:16:45] Trustee Evans: which I don't think is appropriate.

[3:16:53] Trustee Elliott: This is still to do with agricultural land.

[3:16:56] Trustee Evans: It's still agricultural land.

[3:16:57] Trustee Evans: But the maximum floor area of the dwelling or cottage located with the ALR,

[3:17:01] Trustee Evans: this should not, I don't think it belongs under subdivision lot size requirements.

[3:17:05] Trustee Evans: I think it belongs under site and size.

[3:17:08] Trustee Evans: Where it was before.

[3:17:10] Trustee Evans: Where it was before.

[3:17:10] Trustee Evans: It shouldn't have moved.

[3:17:11] Trustee Evans: do you remember what

[3:17:13] Voice 21: it's just in reference referencing the whole term or sorry the whole

[3:17:17] Voice 21: zone

[3:17:17] Voice 6: he's

[3:17:22] Trustee Evans: going to bury it

[3:17:26] Voice 21: it's okay to move it and the

[3:17:30] Trustee Evans: second item is number 12 i'd like to keep that that condition

[3:17:35] Trustee Evans: of use i believe that the 13 onwards um was part of the alc um but i don't think 12 was i think

[3:17:43] Trustee Evans: and 12 is farm retail sales are permitted on a lot located with the agricultural land reserve

[3:17:48] Trustee Evans: and the total indoor and outdoor floor area for the farm retail sales shall not exceed 47 meters

[3:17:53] Trustee Evans: or 500 square feet i don't that's i couldn't find that in the alr so that has to stay but you're

[3:18:01] Trustee Evans: saying 13 to 19 that is that's taken directly from the ALC so because it's taken verbatim from the ALC

[3:18:10] Trustee Evans: if that changes over time and we reference the ALC as having the ruling we don't need to

[3:18:17] Trustee Evans: spell it out because it will require a lot of maintenance to keep it updated so that

[3:18:38] Trustee Evans: So my next section question is on page 33, which is under forestry, it's number 11, it

[3:18:57] Trustee Evans: It says, conditions of use, despite 5.6.5 above,

[3:19:00] Trustee Evans: the minimum setback for a portable sawmill permitted by 9.6.1d above

[3:19:05] Trustee Evans: shall be 20 meters.

[3:19:07] Trustee Evans: From what, is my question.

[3:19:10] Trustee Evans: Can we look into that?

[3:19:12] Trustee Evans: The minimum

[3:19:12] Trustee Evans: setback

[3:19:14] Trustee Elliott: for a portable sawmill permitted by this thing above,

[3:19:18] Trustee Elliott: it's by this thing above, right?

[3:19:21] Trustee Elliott: It'll be 20 meters from what?

[3:19:25] Trustee Elliott: what? Looks pretty ambiguous to me.

[3:19:30] Voice 21: That's why I'd like to have that clarified. It looks like

[3:19:33] Voice 21: any lot line is my guess, so I can add that in, but I'll confirm that. Oh yes, you've got one too?

[3:19:40] Voice 17: Yeah, I've got one too. Page above that, siding in size number six,

[3:19:50] Voice 8: despite

[3:19:51] Voice 17: section 3.4, the maximum height of any building is number two meters.

[3:19:55] Voice 17: doesn't that contradict what we have on page 14?

[3:20:00] Trustee Evans: No, because height has been defined in definitions

[3:20:04] Trustee Evans: as the average for medium grade.

[3:20:09] Trustee Evans: It actually is now the same as the other one.

[3:20:20] Voice 4: It now, it should actually now match

[3:20:22] Voice 4: because that didn't get changed before.

[3:20:27] Voice 6: Which was in the regulations.

[3:20:39] Voice 21: I'm not sure, I don't have it all in front of me,

[3:20:42] Voice 21: but I'm assuming that it's stating that like any building so even if it's an accessory building it

[3:20:48] Voice 21: could be 9.2 meters in height

[3:20:49] Trustee Elliott: whereas

[3:20:50] Voice 21: other zones I believe restrict accessory building and

[3:20:53] Voice 21: structures so 25

[3:20:54] Trustee Evans: yeah yeah so this isn't this is the same as the other one the other thing that

[3:21:01] Trustee Evans: I'd like to do when we when we come to it is under obviously under forestry and the other areas

[3:21:07] Trustee Evans: the changes that we make under the um section five get get repeated elsewhere i think that was it

[3:21:15] Trustee Evans: sorry trustee

[3:21:19] Voice 21: it is because you repeat that last bit i missed it

[3:21:21] Trustee Evans: um once once we have completed

[3:21:24] Trustee Evans: uh or decided on the changes that we're going to be making to section five uh what was it five

[3:21:32] Trustee Evans: 5.5 the maximum floor area once that is decided having that replicated

[3:21:40] Trustee Evans: under forestry and national resource rate that's it and then I have one final item

[3:21:52] Trustee Evans: which I'm not sure if it's appropriate which is why I'm leaving it till last

[3:21:56] Trustee Evans: asked um is it possible to add in language under 3.6 to add some clarity regarding um the intent

[3:22:08] Trustee Evans: of the stvr um ocp um reference i don't know what to call that um something along the lines of where

[3:22:20] Trustee Evans: an stvr has been in operation prior to november 5th 2021 it's deemed legally operating and does

[3:22:26] Trustee Evans: not require a TUP and anything after that date does require a TUP so we can clarify um just

[3:22:33] Trustee Evans: because of um I think it was bill 35 with regards to the STDR I think if we actually put that in

[3:22:39] Trustee Evans: our bylaw that addresses that um because that the issue of not permitting grandfathering of STDRs

[3:22:50] Trustee Evans: because then we're specifying anything that was legally operating prior to the state does not

[3:22:54] Trustee Evans: require a tup and anything after the state does require a tup yeah i don't think was the intent of

[3:23:02] Voice 21: don't know if this is the i don't think we should include in land use bylaw

[3:23:06] Voice 21: because you're kind of bringing in a policy into a regulation document you might be

[3:23:11] Voice 21: able to do an

[3:23:11] Voice 21: information note but even those not it should be a standing

[3:23:17] Trustee Elliott: it's

[3:23:18] Voice 21: a standing resolution resolution

[3:23:19] Trustee Elliott: resolution yeah okay necessarily

[3:23:21] Trustee Elliott: think it should be in the land use bylaw because it

[3:23:24] Trustee Evans: so then my question is because of how bill 35 is written it says if you have it in your bylaw

[3:23:32] Trustee Evans: there is no grandfathering and everyone has to comply with it so does that mean because we don't

[3:23:39] Trustee Evans: have it in our bylaw but it's in our ocp that we have to comply with it that might be a question

[3:23:49] Voice 21: Yeah, maybe we can talk about that later.

[3:23:52] Voice 21: I

[3:23:53] Trustee Evans: just wanted to raise that to see if there was if there was an easier way of addressing it.

[3:24:03] Trustee Evans: This is under home occupation.

[3:24:05] Trustee Evans: And the SCDR is deemed as an allowable commercial use.

[3:24:15] Trustee Evans: commercial use so do we put it under commercial in the section of commercial use

[3:24:19] Voice 6: yeah

[3:24:21] Trustee Evans: i think we

[3:24:22] Trustee Evans: should keep it out of the land use bylaw

[3:24:24] Trustee Elliott: it's something that's gonna keep getting changed i

[3:24:31] Voice 4: would hate to

[3:24:32] Voice 3: have to feel special about that perhaps separately yeah yeah absolutely it's

[3:24:36] Trustee Elliott: great thank you technical amendments gonna bring back some information um do you need me to make

[3:24:43] Trustee Elliott: a resolution for all of them? I

[3:24:45] Voice 21: actually have taken notes. I think we're okay. Yeah, we're back here.

[3:24:49] Voice 21: I'm going to add one more page

[3:24:52] Voice 6: 18. Getting granular, this is so exciting. 3.1. 18,

[3:25:00] Trustee Elliott: sorry, which one?

[3:25:03] Voice 17: 18. 3.10. 3

[3:25:06] Trustee Elliott: .10, use of recreational vehicles. Number one, what did I see?

[3:25:20] Voice 17: Remove, it's a typo. Oh. So removing the, the, in the, any song, I think.

[3:25:29] Trustee Evans: In the, any song. Yeah, remove the word the. Oh right, yeah.

[3:25:36] Voice 17: I was onto the decals. The

[3:25:38] Trustee Elliott: currents on the decals. That's great.

[3:25:44] Voice 17: You don't have to be picky there, you know who you are.

[3:25:48] Trustee Elliott: Great.

[3:25:49] Trustee Elliott: Great.

[3:25:53] Trustee Elliott: Does that conclude discussion on the land use by law amendment project?

[3:25:58] Trustee Elliott: Yes.

[3:25:58] Voice 6: Excellent.

[3:25:59] Voice 6: We've got your work cut out for you.

[3:26:02] Voice 6: Now

[3:26:02] Trustee Elliott: in light of time.

[3:26:04] Trustee Elliott: Yes.

[3:26:04] Trustee Elliott: We want to have a second town hall, but we do want to also speed through reports.

[3:26:09] Trustee Elliott: reports. Can we skip straight to reconciliation, First Nation relationship building? We do

[3:26:20] Trustee Elliott: have a report. Thank you again, Paul and Monica, for providing some information. Did you have

[3:26:26] Trustee Elliott: a little update?

[3:26:27] Voice 9: Just briefly. Given the importance of consulting with First Nations and given the presence

[3:26:35] that Hereditary Chief Eric Pelkey has presented here,

[3:26:40] I would ask that he be notified as early as possible

[3:26:44] about these changes.

[3:26:46] I know that the trust has a process

[3:26:48] that

[3:26:49] Voice 9: goes out more generically,

[3:26:51] but for that to get to him

[3:26:53] Voice 9: was a bit of a process

[3:26:55] Voice 9: within the leadership council and band council, et cetera.

[3:26:59] He's very interested in understanding

[3:27:03] Voice 9: what's happening there,

[3:27:04] Voice 9: particularly with the foreshore protection okay

[3:27:07] Trustee Elliott: so requesting perhaps that a referral

[3:27:13] Trustee Elliott: includes um emailing the predatory chief directly when those referrals go out as early as possible

[3:27:21] Trustee Elliott: yes okay thank you that sounds good excellent so we've got a conservancy on stress conservancy

[3:27:28] Trustee Elliott: report um just a quick note about that we have filled the acting manager position which was

[3:27:34] Trustee Elliott: scheduled to be vacant for 18 months I think and so Wendy Tyrell has come back she used to be the

[3:27:41] Trustee Elliott: species at risk coordinator so she's familiar with the islands trust happy to have her back

[3:27:46] Trustee Elliott: so a lot of work to be done there so we've concluded 17.1 I'll just say upcoming meetings

[3:27:54] Trustee Elliott: we may or we will schedule a special community information meeting or a special business meeting

[3:28:01] Trustee Elliott: for um march and april and then our next regular business meeting is scheduled for may 2nd 2025

[3:28:07] Trustee Elliott: here at the fire hall under island it's open again for nope yes quick question quick question

[3:28:13] Trustee Elliott: like to send a

[3:28:15] Voice 21: thank you letter to abc members absolutely oh yes we've they finished their term

[3:28:20] Voice 21: yes or did their job work i'm not sure it's the term but at least their work okay yeah so to send

[3:28:25] Voice 21: Okay. We don't need a formal motion for that. I just wanted to make sure. Yes, very much.

[3:28:31] Voice 21: Town Hall. Yes, we've got one. Thanks.

[3:28:33] Voice 2: Two. Good.

[3:28:36] Voice 2: Just going back to the options on the tables, and I know you're coming back, Kim, with some things to consider.

[3:28:45] Voice 2: As I said earlier, I believe in terms of moving forward and compromising some of the reasons you pointed out for the increase in 500 square feet.

[3:28:54] Voice 2: I personally feel that's a supportable option.

[3:28:58] Voice 2: My concern is the slippery creep of going larger and larger.

[3:29:03] Voice 2: So if we're looking at what was proposed by you,

[3:29:06] Voice 2: you'd be adding 500 plus another 500.

[3:29:09] Voice 2: That's a 40% increase in size to a structure from where we are right now.

[3:29:16] Voice 2: And it's also about the massing and how it presents itself on the landscape.

[3:29:21] Voice 2: It has 40% in terms of an envelope, a three-dimensional envelope is quite a bit.

[3:29:28] Voice 2: The other thing too, with respect, I would say that if we are thinking about optionality

[3:29:37] Voice 2: or ease of converting to something from a garage, if that extra 500 square feet is within

[3:29:43] Voice 2: the same envelope as a house that has a kitchen and a bathroom and integrated heating system,

[3:29:49] Voice 2: them, it's far easier to convert that into a dwelling space than it is a separate garage that

[3:29:56] Voice 2: is physically removed from the main.

[3:30:00] Voice 2: the main house so I think um I think those things have to be kept into consideration thank you

[3:30:07] Voice 11: so uh just a couple quick points with regard to again attached versus detached garages

[3:30:13] Voice 11: what I haven't heard in all this discussion um are the following so first of all if you're

[3:30:20] Voice 11: building a garage it is not built to the same building code standard as a residential structure

[3:30:26] Voice 11: And so

[3:30:27] Voice 11: I was asking Dr. Stockdale if she knew the difference, because I think that when you attach a garage, you need to construct your wall assemblies for residential standing, or you need to go further in your provisions.

[3:30:43] Voice 11: And the likelihood also is that you're going to heat that space because it's attached to your home.

[3:30:48] Voice 11: You don't want to open the door into your home and have the brush and cool there.

[3:30:51] Voice 11: so you're going to heat the space. So it makes the question of convertibility much easier.

[3:30:57] Voice 6: That's

[3:30:57] Voice 11: one point. The second point is that if you have an attached garage, now you need a driveway

[3:31:03] Voice 11: to the garage, and that would imply that you have a driveway that would go from frontage all the way

[3:31:11] Voice 11: to your home. When you have a detached garage, the driveway is often shorter and there's a

[3:31:16] Voice 11: separate from that detached garage into the home so we have a different footprint on the land.

[3:31:21] Voice 11: And then the last point is that an attached garage is a suburban building form. It's not a rural

[3:31:29] Voice 11: building form. And in many suburban areas that allow attached garages, the garage is the dominant

[3:31:37] Voice 11: feature on the street because it's basically a two-car garage. It's roughly 20 feet wide by 25

[3:31:42] Voice 11: But he and in a narrow lot. That's what you're what you'll see that would dominate the frontage of the home is the garage. And so that's the inconsistent. There's no

[3:31:53] Voice 11: Building form and will grow character. So I haven't heard those points thought forward today, but I would put those forward consideration.

[3:32:02] Voice 6: Yeah. Thank you. Yes.

[3:32:06] Voice 9: The local trust committee has a standing bylaw to provide minutes from the previous meeting

[3:32:15] Voice 9: within a specified time period.

[3:32:17] Voice 9: That hasn't been adhered to.

[3:32:21] Voice 9: It's very frustrating for community members to get the agenda package seven days in advance

[3:32:27] Voice 9: of a meeting, understand it, figure out whether they can come to the meeting, what information

[3:32:34] Voice 9: they want to provide. And I would ask that now that we're moving into getting this completed,

[3:32:41] Voice 9: that the trustees adhere to the standing bylaw regarding minutes, since it means a

[3:32:54] Voice 9: meeting without an absentia, so to speak. But that would be of assistance to the community,

[3:33:03] Voice 9: especially when we've heard a whole list of changes that need to be understood

[3:33:13] and waiting for the

[3:33:14] Voice 9: deadline before the meeting is not the best way

[3:33:18] Trustee Elliott: for the

[3:33:19] Voice 9: community to participate. So

[3:33:22] Trustee Elliott: just for the

[3:33:23] Trustee Elliott: minute taker, the other request is

[3:33:26] Trustee Elliott: is that standing resolution number 26012 be followed that we adopt the minutes by resolution

[3:33:35] Trustee Elliott: without meeting within 14 business days so yes

[3:33:37] Trustee Evans: we'll try to do that and I'm just going to clarify

[3:33:40] Trustee Evans: that this that is just the adoption of the meeting of the meeting minutes by resolution it does not

[3:33:45] Trustee Evans: mean the posting of those minutes

[3:33:48] Trustee Elliott: they're generally posted if they're adopted are they not

[3:33:54] Voice 6: I

[3:33:56] Trustee Elliott: would assume so they get posted on the meeting page right away yeah once we've adopted them okay

[3:34:02] Trustee Evans: I wasn't sure because it

[3:34:03] Trustee Elliott: didn't specify that okay so

[3:34:04] Trustee Elliott: we'll try to follow that thank you

[3:34:06] Trustee Elliott: thank you yeah

[3:34:07] Trustee Elliott: that's been raised a few times with

[3:34:10] Voice 8: respect to the garage in addition I feel that

[3:34:15] Voice 8: with the 500 across the board addition that should incorporate that would satisfy incorporating

[3:34:22] Voice 8: the additional space for an attached garage, so I don't really see the need that that becomes

[3:34:30] Voice 8: another option. I'm not sure if I made myself clear there, but I believe that the recommended

[3:34:40] Voice 8: 500 square foot across the board would incorporate enough space for an attached garage if that's

[3:34:47] Voice 8: what the person wanted right

[3:34:49] Voice 6: thank you anyone else

[3:34:56] Trustee Elliott: all right I want to congratulate you all

[3:34:59] Trustee Elliott: we work together yeah

[3:35:02] Voice 6: and we

[3:35:04] Trustee Elliott: also got to the rationale for our uh reasons

[3:35:13] Voice 21: There's only two potential dates and it's on a Monday or a Wednesday in the March.

[3:35:20] Voice 21: Okay, so I'll

[3:35:22] Voice 21: send you these now.

[3:35:23] Voice 21: Okay, I'm going

[3:35:24] Voice 21: to call for adjournment.

[3:35:25] Voice 21: All

[3:35:26] Trustee Elliott: those in favor?

[3:35:26] Trustee Elliott: We are adjourned.

[3:35:30] Voice 3: Yeah, I'm good.

South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
February 14, 2025 ADOPTED Page 1 of 9 
 
South Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Minutes of Regular Meeting 
 
Date:  
Location:  
February 14, 2025 
South Pender Fire Hall 
8961 Gowlland Point Road, South Pender Island, BC 
 
Members Present: Tobi Elliott, Chair 
 Dag Falck, Local Trustee 
 Kristina Evans, Local Trustee 
  
Staff Present: Robert Kojima, Regional Planning Manager (electronic) 
 Kim Stockdill, Island Planner  
 Clare Frater, Director, Trust Area Services (electronic) 
 Lisa Millard, Meeting Administrator/Recorder (electronic) 
  
Others Present: There were 28 members of the public in attendance. 
  
1. CALL TO ORDER 
Chair Elliott called the meeting to order at 10:30 a.m.  
2. TERRITORIAL ACKNOWLEDGEMENT 
Chair Elliott acknowledged that the meeting was held on the territory of the Coast Salish 
First Nations. 
3. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 
The following additions to the agenda were presented for consideration: 
13.2 Letter dated February 10, 2025 from Member of Parliament Elizabeth May on behalf 
of the Southern Gulf Islands Forum regarding advocacy to the Ministry of Transport on 
Bill C-33 about railway safety and marine issues. 
By general consent the agenda was approved as amended. 
4. TRUSTEE REPORT 
Trustee Evans reported the following: 
• Construction on the “dip” is anticipated to restart in late March 
• Attended Committee of the Whole meetings to continue work on amendments to the 
draft Trust Policy Statement in anticipation of giving First Reading in June 
• Attended Trust Council meetings in December and noted budget for public engagement 
on the draft Trust Policy Statement was reviewed and decreased and this will result in 
First Reading occurring in conjunction with referrals 
A D O P T E D 

 
South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
February 14, 2025 ADOPTED Page 2 of 9 
• Attended Trust Programs Committee meetings and noted discussions about the 
number, and topics, of webinars being created 
• The Chief Administrative Officer (CAO) Hiring Committee is now focused on revisions to 
the CAO job profile and the drafting of performance evaluation criteria 
• Resigned from position on Finance and Audit Committee with potential to return at a 
later date 
 
Trustee Falck reported continued involvement in the Southern Gulf Islands Forum 
meetings. 
5. CHAIR'S REPORT 
Chair Elliott reported the following: 
• Acknowledged the work of Islands Trust Chair Luckham who will be stepping down from 
as chair from Islands Trust Council resulting in the election of a new Chair at the March 
Trust Council meeting 
• Ongoing participation in the Reconciliation Learning Group which will next be looking at 
cultural safety across the organization, and supporting the reconciliation action plan 
with initiatives and reconciliation related activities 
• Staff are working on a draft Reconciliation Action Plan with focus on creating culturally 
safe space 
6. ELECTORAL AREA DIRECTOR'S REPORT - None 
7. TOWN HALL AND QUESTIONS 
Several members of the public spoke to Bylaw No. 122 and draft Bylaw No. 129 and the 
following comments were noted: 
• Disagreement with the Advisory Planning Commission recommendation to return to a 
10’ side lot setback with preference for a 20’ setback to allow for 40’ between buildings 
to encourage construction of smaller homes and create a healthier corridor 
• Accessory buildings should be sited 20’ from property lines 
• Twenty-two homes will be affected if a 50’ setback from the sea is implemented and the 
speaker built their home to the bylaw standards in place at time of construction 
• If short-term vacation rental use is not grandfathered it will have the effect of removing 
provincial licensing requirements 
• South Pender has a natural appeal of environment, wildlife, and ruralness and a sense 
of freedom in nature is should be maintained for future generations and First Nations 
• Proposed draft bylaw is out of sync with what the community wants, the mandate to fix 
the bylaw was built on the false claim that it would create legal non-conforming 
situations and Trustees have not made an effort to correct the misinterpretation 
• Dissatisfaction with efforts to upend Bylaw No. 122, increase the permitted size of a 
house, and reduce setbacks as a means to ensure some homes are not legally non-
conforming 
• Disagreement with the reduction of the side lot setback and increase of permitted 
house size as proposed in Bylaw No. 129 and has not heard an explanation of why 
Bylaw No. 122 is problematic 
•  There is a variance mechanism that can be used to address particular situations 
• The bylaw proposal moves the community toward urban house sizes 

 
South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
February 14, 2025 ADOPTED Page 3 of 9 
•  Should the Advisory Planning Commission recommendations be adopted there will be 
a resulting loss of habitat 
• Setback is irrelevant as property owners can clear to lot line resulting in loss of privacy 
• During previous meetings the Local Trust Committee mentioned looking at 
Development Permit Areas and clear cutting and the use of these tools has not been 
incorporated into the recommendations received 
• Zoning can be altered to allow a minor accessory building to be sited to the property line 
and it is within the Local Trust Committee’s ability to determine what is allowed, and 
disallowed, and which option best supports the Official Community Plan 
• There would be a substantial number of non-conforming properties that would be 
rendered conforming by adopting the two-tier recommendations put forth by the 
Advisory Planning Commission with older homes being bound by the previous bylaw as 
well as allowing them to be rebuilt to previous size 
• Only undeveloped properties will be affected by the larger setback requirement while 
80% of properties that are already developed have a setback which will be protected 
• Some people think that going from a 10’ setback to a 20’ setback erodes property value 
but it actually enhances value as substantial setbacks are considered desirable 
• The “despite clause” language being used is not uncommon with the bylaw indicating 
one may, or may not, do something followed by a subsequent clause that says you may 
under certain conditions 
• The bylaw should include language that makes it clear what is allowed and considered 
legal non-conforming 
• The bylaw is not only affecting properties that are not yet developed it would also affect 
properties where an existing dwelling is taken down and a new one put up 
•  If someone builds a big house next to you it does affect property values because this 
impacts property assessments 
• Livability value goes down if buildings are too close to neighbouring houses 
• In support of a 10’ setback because fencing and screening can be used for privacy 
• House sizes proposed by the Advisory Planning Commission are larger than the 
recommendation in Bylaw No. 122, smaller than previously permitted, and represent a 
compromise between the two 
• This has been a topic of significant debate and the proposed sizes in the previous and 
current bylaws are subjective 
• If trying to find a compromise then one needs to determine if setbacks are more 
important than house size and a compromise could include Option 1 plus an additional 
500 square feet for the house size while keeping a 20’ setback between homes and a 
10’ setback for an accessory building 
• Everyone that has built previously followed the rules and there should be language 
included that provides protection, and those that need to rebuild should be able to 
build to current size 
• The issues are what is within the setback and clear cutting to lot line 
8. COMMUNITY INFORMATION MEETING - None 
9. PUBLIC HEARING - None 
  

 
South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
February 14, 2025 ADOPTED Page 4 of 9 
10. MINUTES 
10.1 Adopted Local Trust Committee Minutes Dated September 13, 2024 (for 
Information) 
Received for information. 
10.2 Local Trust Committee Special Meeting Minutes Dated January 17, 2025 (for 
Adoption) 
By general consent the South Pender Island Local Trust Committee meeting 
minutes of January 17, 2025 were adopted as presented. 
10.3 Section 26 Resolutions-without-meeting Dated February, 2025 
Received for information. 
10.4 Advisory Planning Commission Minutes Dated October 4, October 21, and 
November 12, 2024 (for Receipt)  
Received for information. 
11. BUSINESS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES 
11.1 Follow-up Action List Dated Nov 2024 
Received for information.  
12. DELEGATIONS - None 
13. CORRESPONDENCE 
Correspondence received concerning current applications or projects is posted on the LTC 
webpage 
13.1 Paul Petrie re Advisory Planning Commission Minority Report 
Received for information. 
13.2 Letter dated February 10, 2025 from Member of Parliament Elizabeth May 
regarding Southern Gulf Island Forum 
  Received for information.   
14. APPLICATIONS AND REFERRALS 
14.1 North Pender Island Local Trust Committee Referral for Draft Bylaw No. 235 (for 
Response) 
SP-2025-002 
It was MOVED and SECONDED, 
that South Pender Island Local Trust Committee interests are unaffected by 
the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee Draft Bylaw No. 235. 
 
CARRIED 
  

 
South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
February 14, 2025 ADOPTED Page 5 of 9 
15. LOCAL TRUST COMMITTEE PROJECTS 
15.1 Land Use Bylaw Amendment Project - Staff Report 
Island Planner Stockdill summarized the staff report and highlighted the following: 
• The project webpage includes a blackline version integrating Bylaw No. 129 into 
the existing Land Use Bylaw 
• The BC Building Code indicates the floor area does not make a difference to the 
height of a storey and the reference to a 1.8 metre height is in terms of a crawl 
space 
• The current Land Use Bylaw provides a definition of floor area which excludes 
areas of story less than 1.5 metres in height 
• A definition of crawl space, as per BC building code, or an amended definition of 
floor area to increase from 1.5 metres to 1.8 metres, can be included 
 
Discussion ensued and the following comments and clarifications were noted: 
• Trustees are in favour of amending the definition of floor area to increase from 
1.5 metres to 1.8 metres, which is compliant with the BC building code 
• Attached garages should be excluded from the floor area of the dwelling as 
there is a higher risk of using the space for a dwelling compared to a non-
attached garage 
• Options for consideration include increasing all house sizes by 500 square feet 
or keeping the house size at 2500 square feet and including a clause permitting 
an additional 500 square feet if one chooses to construct a new build with an 
attached garage 
• The Advisory Planning Commission’s rationale was to allow an additional 500 
square feet as a compromise 
• There has been concern expressed that a 40% reduction from the previously 
permitted house size was too much 
• An addition of 500 square feet, to a maximum allowance of 3000 square feet, 
allows livability, intergenerational living, and accessibility building requirements 
• There should be an option for an attached garage as one should not be forced to 
build a detached garage if it is going to interfere with maximum square footage 
• Allowing a 3000 square foot dwelling and having either an attached or detached 
garage should be considered 
• The aim is to provide the most flexibility to landowners as well as for the 
protection of the environment 
 
The meeting was recessed for a break at 12:19 p.m. and reconvened at 12:28 p.m.  
 
Discussion continued regarding house sizes and the following comments were 
noted: 
• In Section 5 replace “maximum floor area per lot” with “on a lot that contains a 
legal dwelling constructed prior to September 15, 2022; a replacement dwelling 
can be constructed, or the existing dwelling reconstructed or altered, provided 
the floor area of the replacement, reconstructed, or altered dwelling does not 
exceed the “greater of either a: the floor area of the dwelling on the lot prior to 

 
South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
February 14, 2025 ADOPTED Page 6 of 9 
September 15, 2022, or the established maximum floor area per lot as 
permitted in Table B 
• Obtaining a public facing legal opinion on the issue of “legal non conforming” is 
needed 
• Chair Elliott confirmed the draft bylaw will go for legal review 
• There is no use of the term “legal non-conforming” within the bylaw 
• Would like recommendation from the Advisory Planning Commission included 
in Section 5 instead of in the “despite” clause 
 
Discussion ensued regarding holding a Community Information Meeting, the 
requirements and benefits of holding, or not holding, a Public Hearing, and 
timelines for referral responses. 
 
SP-2025-003 
It was MOVED and SECONDED, 
that South Pender Local Trust Committee request staff amend the definition 
of floor area in Draft Bylaw No. 129 by increasing 1.5 metres to 1.8 metres.  
 
CARRIED 
 
SP-2025-004 
It was MOVED and SECONDED 
that South Pender Island Local Trust Committee request staff schedule a 
Special Meeting in March or April 2025 regarding draft Bylaw No. 129 for the 
Minor Land Use Bylaw Amendments Project. 
CARRIED 
SP-2025-005 
It was MOVED and SECONDED, 
that South Pender Island Local Trust Committee request staff amend the 
Minor Land Use Bylaw Amendments Project Charter to include a Public 
Hearing and amend the budget as shown in the Staff Reported dated 
February 14, 2025.  
CARRIED 
The following edits to the Land Use Bylaw were proposed: 
• Page 4: Remove the definition of Basement Floor Area as the term is not used 
within the bylaw 
• Page 11, Part 2, Section 3, No. 1: Following “bylaw is authorized to enter at any 
time, and after having given prior notification” insert “of at least 24 hours written 
notice” 
o It was noted that this might be beyond the scope of a technical 
amendment 
• Section 3.3.5 requires clarifying language with regard to building sitings when 
the building is being reconstructed 
• Section 3.10: Place Section No. 2 ahead of “nothing in the subsection” and 
change the wording to “noting in this section prohibits the storage of a 
recreational vehicle, that is not being used as a dwelling, on a lot 

 
South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
February 14, 2025 ADOPTED Page 7 of 9 
• Under Derelict Vehicles No. 8: strike reference to license decal as they are no 
required or issued 
• Agriculture Section 5.5: If there are any lots less than 10 acres there needs to be 
a table that captures house sizes on Agricultural Land Reserve land 
• Page 30: Keep the information note with the siting and size rather than putting it 
under subdivision lot requirements 
• Agricultural Section No. 12 refers to farm retails while Nos. 13-19 are taken 
directly from the Agricultural Land Commission (ALC) and if the ALC changes 
over time a lot of language maintenance will be required 
• Forestry No. 11 statement reading “conditions of use despite 5.6.5 above the 
minimum setback for a portable sawmill permitted by 5.6.1 shall be 20 metres 
and this statement requires clarification on what the 20-metre distance is 
measured from 
• Once edits have been completed in Section 5.5 Maximum Floor Area the 
information should be replicated under Forestry and Natural Resources 
• Discussion ensued about adding clarifying language regarding the intent of the 
short-term-vacation rental language noting that if a rental has been in place 
prior to November 5, 2021, it is deemed legally operating and does not require a 
Temporary Use Permit and any rental that commenced operation after that date 
does 
• Page 18, 3.10(1): remove the word “the” 
16. REPORTS 
16.1 Work Program Reports 
16.1.1 Active Projects Report Dated November 2024 
Received for information. 
16.1.2 Future Projects Report Dated November 2024 
Received for information. 
16.2 Applications Report Dated February 2025 
Received for information. 
16.3 Trustee and Local Expense Report Dated December 2024 
Received for information. 
16.4 Adopted Policies and Standing Resolutions 
Received for information. 
16.5 Local Trust Committee Webpage 
No updates required at this time 
16.6 Reconciliation and First Nation Relationship Building 
It was noted that given the importance of consulting with First Nations, Hereditary 
Chief Pelkey should be included in referrals and notified as soon as possible about 
bylaw changes.  
16.7 Islands Trust Conservancy Report Dated November 2024 
Received for information. 

 
South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
February 14, 2025 ADOPTED Page 8 of 9 
17. NEW BUSINESS 
17.1 Phase 4 Community Engagement Options - Policy Statement Amendment 
Project (PSAP) - Staff Report 
The Director of Trust Area Services summarized the staff report. 
Discussion ensued and it was determined that during regular business meetings 
some time be set aside to discuss the draft Trust Policy Statement in a Town Hall 
environment. 
SP-2025-006 
It was MOVED and SECONDED, 
that South Pender Island Local Trust Committee select Engagement Option 
2 “Town Hall during regular Local Trust Committee Meeting” for Phase 4 
community engagement about the new draft Islands Trust Policy Statement. 
CARRIED 
18. UPCOMING MEETINGS 
18.1 Next Regular Meeting Scheduled for May 2, 2025 at the Fire Hall, Pender Island  
19. TOWN HALL  
A member of the public noted the options presented on the tables are supportable in terms 
of a compromise; however, they have concerns about house sizes continuing to get larger 
and the ease of ability to convert an attached garage to liveable space comparted to a 
detached unit. 
A member of the public noted attached garages are a suburban concept that dominant the 
front of a home and they have to be constructed to residential standards, often requiring 
heat which allows for ease of convertibility while a detached garage often has a shorter 
driveway creating less impact on the land. 
A member of the public stated that allowing an additional 500 square feet to house sizes 
across the board would allow for an attached garage if that is the home owner’s preference. 
A member of the public asked that Local Trust Committee Standing Resolution 2006.012, 
which requires minutes be adopted by Resolution without Meeting within 14 business days 
of a meeting, be adhered to. 
20. CLOSED MEETING - None 
21. ADJOURNMENT 
By general consent the meeting was adjourned at 2:07 p.m. 
 
 
_________________________ 
Tobi Elliott, Chair 
 

 
South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
February 14, 2025 ADOPTED Page 9 of 9 
Certified Correct: 
 
_________________________ 
Lisa Millard, Meeting Administrator/Recorder