Mayne Island Local Trust Committee community information meeting, February 24, 2025

[0:00:00] Voice 8: husband thank you all right that's our

[0:00:06] Voice 9: signal we are all systems go good afternoon everyone

[0:00:10] Voice 9: uh welcome to the regularly scheduled business meeting of the main island local trust committee

[0:00:14] Voice 9: i'm your chair uh toby elliott elected on gabriola island and with your two local trustees

[0:00:20] Voice 9: and uh we're joined by the island planner narissa chadwick

[0:00:28] Voice 9: Risa, hello. You're so far away.

[0:00:31] Voice 9: Where are you?

[0:00:33] Voice 3: She's still there.

[0:00:34] Voice 3: It's

[0:00:35] Voice 9: hard at work over there.

[0:00:39] Voice 9: Our meeting facilitator, Lisa Millard, is in the background,

[0:00:42] Voice 9: and we'll talk when the vote is recorded today.

[0:00:46] Voice 9: Thank you.

[0:00:48] Voice 9: So as always, we want to begin by acknowledging that we are meeting today

[0:00:52] Voice 9: in the territories of many Coast Salish nations,

[0:00:55] Voice 9: nations, in particular, the St. Joplin-speaking peoples, the Lissetian peoples.

[0:01:00] Voice 9: And so I just want us to keep in mind that Indigenous peoples' management of the land

[0:01:06] Voice 9: and the waters has really shaped and co-created all that we are benefiting from today.

[0:01:14] Voice 9: And so we want to be mindful of their stewardship and their continued presence here in our decision

[0:01:19] Voice 9: decision-making and uphold the principles of respect, reconciliation, reciprocity and

[0:01:25] Voice 9: resurgence for Indigenous Peoples.

[0:01:28] Voice 9: So we have an agenda before us, is there anything that we want to add or amend?

[0:01:36] Voice 9: Pretty short, one very considerable update on our local project, so we'll approve the

[0:01:46] Voice 9: agenda as presented.

[0:01:48] Voice 9: so we have two opportunities for town hall and recognizing and thanking the members of the public

[0:01:53] Voice 9: who came today um four of you for the minute particular um and so if you uh want to speak to

[0:02:01] Voice 9: any item of concern in the local trust committee area or the island trust area broadly um please

[0:02:09] Voice 9: do so and just be mindful that this is a place of employment and so all the usual standards of um

[0:02:16] Voice 9: respectful um speech and uh and addressing issues and not personalities would be greatly appreciated

[0:02:24] Voice 9: so we'll open up the town hall if anybody wants to uh say anything the local trust committee

[0:02:30] Voice 5: awesome well lovely intro i might as well start the ball rolling on ben james from

[0:02:35] Voice 5: good as wood tree care or pj's contracting um so we have a we have a

[0:02:43] Voice 5: a land use issue as it's been brought to light

[0:02:47] Voice 5: through an initial issue

[0:02:53] Voice 5: whereby we've been given a determination

[0:02:57] Voice 5: from, I don't want to say Island's Trust,

[0:03:00] Voice 5: but it's a little heated Island's Trust,

[0:03:04] Voice 5: determination that there's what we call

[0:03:08] Voice 5: an appropriate land use as far as our business

[0:03:10] Voice 5: It's operating out of the area at the top of Chartery Road.

[0:03:20] Voice 5: Several complaints made about the land use.

[0:03:26] Voice 5: However, it's founded on a noise issue below that property.

[0:03:33] Voice 5: So really, Maxine Beganchin, the property owner,

[0:03:39] Voice 5: owner has come down with obviously an invested interest, and Mitchell Nanshan, son of, currently

[0:03:47] Voice 5: living on the property as well. Also, this here is just a good sounding board as well,

[0:03:53] Voice 5: having dealt with issues like this many times before in the past. So really, we're here

[0:03:59] Voice 5: to, I assume you've received the letter in and understand that?

[0:04:04] Voice 10: No, we don't actually get involved at that level.

[0:04:07] Voice 10: Don't

[0:04:08] Voice 5: get the letter. So, you know, really we're looking to seek out some practical, rational, community-minded solutions to get around it.

[0:04:22] Voice 5: you know, our businesses are substantial enough in the community where we provide employment,

[0:04:30] Voice 5: we provide revenue opportunities, we also support a lot of community groups,

[0:04:36] Voice 5: have made some rather large contributions in the last 12 months, let alone four years,

[0:04:43] Voice 5: and you know, this potentially puts pressure on us remaining on main island. So,

[0:04:51] Voice 5: So that's, in a nutshell, where we're sitting today.

[0:04:56] Voice 5: You know, if you need more information around it, let me know.

[0:05:01] Voice 5: But at the end of the day, we're after the solutions from Islands Trust, really, on how to move forward.

[0:05:09] Voice 5: Okay.

[0:05:12] Voice 10: So how many vehicles are you driving and how many hours a day are you actually,

[0:05:18] Voice 10: because obviously it's a residential area you're driving through,

[0:05:22] Voice 10: which is obviously where the complaints, I assume, I assume, but I don't know.

[0:05:26] Voice 5: Well, it does vary.

[0:05:28] Voice 5: I mean, all told, throughout Southern Rolf, I have seven vehicles in total.

[0:05:34] Voice 5: On Main Island itself, I may have operating at any one day would be two,

[0:05:45] Voice 5: Usually one. We have two bucket trucks. One's situated on Pender, one is here on Main Island

[0:05:52] Voice 5: as well. There'll be only two bucket trucks here and available to Main Island. That bucket

[0:06:00] Voice 5: truck here on Main Island may, you know, it's very variable, but it may only go out the

[0:06:06] Voice 5: out once a week um otherwise it would be just a uh you know just a pickup you know like a 3500

[0:06:18] Voice 5: so yeah um operating at even one time and potentially two how many employees

[0:06:24] Voice 10: needs

[0:06:25] Voice 5: would you have on main island uh right now uh one uh well excluding that'd be contractor but

[0:06:34] Voice 5: uh yeah one other right now but upwards of two in addition to me that is um so a crew would consist

[0:06:42] Voice 5: of three staff uh there's also a crew that resides in with some pendant and also a crew that resides

[0:06:50] Voice 5: And

[0:06:50] Voice 10: what, besides parking equipment, because I've not been in, and this isn't legal normally

[0:06:57] Voice 10: until you get to the temporary, if you're applying for a temporary use permit, we would

[0:07:01] Voice 10: see that application, otherwise the by-law report and all of that we wouldn't see.

[0:07:06] Voice 10: So what do you use the property for, just to park vehicles when you're not working?

[0:07:11] Voice 10: Yep,

[0:07:12] Voice 5: it's simply storage of vehicles, equipment, materials required to do the job.

[0:07:19] Voice 5: A standard day would be arriving at, well, how I request it from the guys is to arrive at 8 o'clock

[0:07:27] Voice 5: and we return to the yard at 4.30.

[0:07:30] Voice 5: So again, you know, that can vary a little bit, determined by the workload on any particular day.

[0:07:37] Voice 5: day, but a typical day is 8 to 4.30 and that constitutes an 8

[0:07:41] Voice 10: hour day for a work day.

[0:07:42] Voice 10: So like for the neighbours then they would expect traffic at 8am and then nothing again

[0:07:46] Voice 10: until 4.30?

[0:07:47] Voice 5: On a typical day, correct, but we do service

[0:07:51] Voice 5: the southern Gulf and you know so everybody is able to have the services we offer, such

[0:07:58] Voice 5: as we also service Satuna and Galeana as that catchment. So there are days when we need

[0:08:06] Voice 5: to catch a boat and you know if the boats were more favorable to our time schedule well that

[0:08:12] Voice 5: would be great too it wouldn't be the early morning starts we will we will drive trucks on

[0:08:17] Voice 5: on the boat early in the morning so at times yeah we do have to start the trucks up have

[0:08:21] Voice 10: you had any

[0:08:22] Voice 10: conversations with whoever the complainants are or do you know them yep

[0:08:26] Voice 5: um they when the

[0:08:28] Voice 5: complaints first came through uh i actually walked uh up and

[0:08:33] Voice 9: down so i'm just gonna actually

[0:08:35] Voice 9: progress at this point because I think it is getting too much into community to community

[0:08:41] Voice 9: and so there is a separation between the Islands Trust decision-making body and our bylaw enforcement

[0:08:46] Voice 9: compliance team so we do have Warren online who's here to answer questions and so I don't know if we

[0:08:56] Voice 9: have a question about process or are you asking what's to happen next you've got a determination

[0:09:03] Voice 9: determination letter, but we can't get into the particulars of mediating a dispute. That's

[0:09:09] Voice 9: entirely into file of complaints.

[0:09:11] Voice 5: Yep, I'm just answering

[0:09:12] Voice 5: questions. My question to Islands Trust is what solutions do you

[0:09:18] Voice 5: have for this situation? Right now, we have been given a determination letter by Islands

[0:09:23] Voice 5: Trust and the final result of it, cease contract yard, to gain compliance, cease contract yard

[0:09:33] Voice 5: the list above, unless contractor yard is used solely, which is an interesting word,

[0:09:39] Voice 5: by a person permanently residing in a dwelling unit on the lot, which was a consideration

[0:09:46] Voice 5: because we do have that accommodation there. Or a planning option has been approved by

[0:09:56] Voice 5: Islands Trust, I'm not aware of the planning option, none of us are, to discuss planning

[0:10:01] Voice 5: planning options which bring the parcel into compliance, please contact planning staff

[0:10:06] Voice 5: ahead. So outside of those four options, how do we move forward, or does Island Trust want

[0:10:13] Voice 5: us to shut down and let

[0:10:14] Voice 9: go of the goal?

[0:10:16] Voice 9: Those are the options. I mean, so I don't know, Warren, if you could speak to the process

[0:10:23] Voice 9: of seeking compliance and through to enforcement if there isn't compliance, the general approach

[0:10:30] Voice 9: and then maybe the specifics of what he's asking.

[0:10:36] Voice 9: Would you offer any clarity?

[0:10:37] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): Okay, Chair.

[0:10:38] Voice 9: Thanks.

[0:10:38] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): So the options for this company is, yes,

[0:10:43] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): they can either cease operations, find another location,

[0:10:45] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): or they can talk to planning staff about, say, a temporary use permit

[0:10:50] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): that would allow them to continue operating

[0:10:52] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): if it's approved by the local trust committee.

[0:10:55] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): So he's got a letter that's, you know,

[0:10:58] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): given him 90 days to come up with a solution.

[0:11:00] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): If after 90 days we still don't have any compliance, then a report is going to go to the local

[0:11:05] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): trust committee and then the local trust committee is going to give staff direction on what they

[0:11:12] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): want to see with this operation.

[0:11:14] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): So we'll either have compliance in 90 days plus or we'll have a proposal to move forward

[0:11:19] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): with a temporary use permit application.

[0:11:28] Voice 9: So your business it sounds like is in violation of the land use by-law which requires that

[0:11:33] Voice 9: it's a residential use and then there's terms for the contractor yard so the goal is to get

[0:11:39] Voice 9: the the lot into compliance and that is the pathway that's being proposed

[0:11:46] Voice 5: does one it does one or is one aware of this particular case yes

[0:11:54] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): chair i'm very well aware

[0:11:56] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): i've got the letters open the determination letter open in front of me in the notes for the file

[0:12:00] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): file so I'm fully aware and briefed on the file yes

[0:12:05] Voice 5: in terms of the breach it's a with the letter

[0:12:08] Voice 5: given uh it's a there's some contradictory things in terms of the letters or interpretations you

[0:12:14] Voice 5: might have around um the the bio was um or what do you call it the uh OCO or whatever it's called

[0:12:22] Voice 5: yeah

[0:12:22] Voice 11: there

[0:12:24] Voice 5: you go we'll use that one uh the land use by law uh there's some contradictions around

[0:12:30] Voice 5: around it, and even in the letter with the wording solely, these words aren't actually

[0:12:35] Voice 5: used in the by-laws, and we're still struggling on why the land use of a contractor's yard

[0:12:42] Voice 5: is not acceptable based on the fact that the business doesn't operate out of that yard,

[0:12:49] Voice 5: it merely stores equipment, vehicles and tools for the

[0:12:56] Voice 5: business to function. We're still

[0:12:58] Voice 5: missing the point.

[0:12:59] Voice 9: That's maybe a question for the planner. And again, this is something that

[0:13:02] Voice 9: would be worked out with staff. So if you have a question about the wording and is it actually a

[0:13:09] Voice 9: violation of the land use bylaw, you can go back to bylaw enforcement, ask those questions. But

[0:13:13] Voice 9: I guess interpreting the contractor yard, because we just went through this work and adopted

[0:13:18] Voice 9: amendments to the land use bylaws. It's just been updated recently, but can you comment on

[0:13:23] Voice 9: interpreting contractor yards that are being operated yeah

[0:13:29] Voice 11: yeah so so the intention of

[0:13:32] Voice 11: permitting um contractor yards as a home business so the intention behind it that we had some

[0:13:39] Voice 11: discussion about and this is why the change was made is um to allow you know a plumber to keep

[0:13:46] Voice 11: a truck on his property or you know some people contractors who are doing work and have large

[0:13:55] Voice 11: vehicles or equipment to be able to store that equipment on their properties while they go out

[0:14:01] Voice 11: and do their business and come back so that's why in the land use bylaw it is under home-based

[0:14:07] Voice 11: business and so in order to be a home-based business to be qualified as a home-based business

[0:14:14] Voice 11: the person running the business

[0:14:17] Voice 11: must live on the property

[0:14:19] Voice 11: but

[0:14:19] Voice 5: it doesn't say the person

[0:14:21] Voice 5: running the business does it

[0:14:22] Voice 11: in the violence

[0:14:25] Voice 11: I mean I have to look

[0:14:27] Voice 11: at the language

[0:14:27] Voice 11: there is wording around

[0:14:33] Voice 11: around

[0:14:35] Voice 11: somebody residing on the property

[0:14:37] Voice 11: correct

[0:14:38] Voice 5: there is but it's not

[0:14:39] Voice 5: the landowner nor is it the business

[0:14:41] Voice 5: owner it can't even be an employee

[0:14:43] Voice 5: the way it's yes

[0:14:44] Voice 11: the way that it's worded and that's

[0:14:45] Voice 5: yes yes correct and then

[0:14:48] Voice 11: two additional

[0:14:49] Voice 11: uh people so i think um the the nature of this appears to be beyond what the bylaw allows we've

[0:15:00] Voice 11: had some i've had some conversation with warren and with with david the bylaw uh in bylaw around

[0:15:06] Voice 11: around this particular use.

[0:15:11] Voice 11: And so that's why by,

[0:15:12] Voice 11: if you're applying for a temporary use permit

[0:15:15] Voice 11: allows us to have a look at specifically

[0:15:19] Voice 11: at how the business is run

[0:15:21] Voice 11: and permit the use that you are engaging in.

[0:15:29] Voice 5: Okay, so is this conversation I should hit with yourself

[0:15:32] Voice 5: and Warren post this maybe?

[0:15:34] Voice 11: Yeah, we can help you.

[0:15:35] Voice 11: We can help you through that process.

[0:15:37] Voice 9: Yeah. Yeah.

[0:15:37] Voice 9: Okay. So

[0:15:39] Voice 9: that's what it's meant by planning option. So it's either cease the activity that's outside of what's lawfully allowed by the land use bylaw, or come into compliance through a planning process that might include a temporary use permit issue. And at that point, this body would make a decision. But all the work that's done on non-compliance issues is done with staff. We can't get involved.

[0:16:02] Voice 3: Do you guys have anything else you want to add?

[0:16:07] Voice 3: No, I don't think so, other than what is involved in

[0:16:13] Voice 5: planning should be listed, if it's available.

[0:16:18] Voice 2: The

[0:16:19] Voice 5: steps involved in

[0:16:21] Voice 11: that, how does that process work?

[0:16:23] Voice 11: The temporary use permit process? Yeah, so it starts with applying and you can access the application form on the Island's Trust website.

[0:16:33] Voice 11: site and it's quite the the application form is quite good in terms of identifying everything

[0:16:39] Voice 11: that's required and so forth once you have the application in a planner is assigned in this case

[0:16:47] Voice 11: I'm I'll probably be connected with the process we also have another planner that's doing

[0:16:53] Voice 11: applications Bruce Belcher he may also be participating in the development of that and so

[0:17:01] Voice 11: So once we get the application and the fee, then we proceed and we'll help you to figure out what information we need.

[0:17:12] Voice 11: And then the temporary use permit will identify the conditions under which the use can operate.

[0:17:22] Voice 11: and then it's decided by the trustees whether they want to support it and then you get up to

[0:17:34] Voice 11: three years so temporary use permit can be pushed can can be issued for up to three years with a

[0:17:40] Voice 11: possibility of renewal for an additional three years and in some cases where the temporary

[0:17:48] Voice 11: use permit is an opportunity to kind of um trial run a use so there are there are cases and there

[0:17:57] Voice 11: have been uh on maine recently where temporary use permit has been issued the use has been um

[0:18:04] Voice 11: satisfactory to uh the community and the neighbors and then um it's been

[0:18:12] Voice 11: rezoned for that use so there's there's you know that potential up the road um there's also the

[0:18:17] Voice 11: potential that you can also reapply for a temporary use permit. So you can have three years,

[0:18:22] Voice 11: an additional three years, and then potentially reapply. The three-year period, well, and again,

[0:18:28] Voice 11: it's up to three years. So it's really determined by the trust community how long they'll allow the

[0:18:36] Voice 11: use to go forward. And that period allows for sort of a check-in time to see if any changes need to

[0:18:44] Voice 11: be made to uh the um parameters within which the business is operating

[0:18:50] Voice 10: or the use is operating

[0:18:51] Voice 10: that's

[0:18:52] Voice 3: great thank you i think what's

[0:18:53] Voice 10: important to know though is that it's a temporary use

[0:18:56] Voice 10: application is circulated to all of the neighbors within 100 years and so temporary use whatever

[0:19:04] Voice 10: happens to me is like a mini rezoning so as a politician when you get an application

[0:19:12] Voice 10: depending on the level of community support makes a

[0:19:15] Voice 10: difference so just a heads up that this is not

[0:19:19] Voice 10: just paperwork this also requires it circulated to your neighbors which is why i asked the question

[0:19:25] Voice 10: um so it's a time to sort of talk to to the neighbors and see what you can mitigate and

[0:19:33] Voice 10: the concerns that they may or may not have i have no idea what they are um but i think it's really

[0:19:39] Voice 10: important because ultimately it will come to the trustees who have to make the decision

[0:19:44] Voice 10: the other two ups we've had which was for the vet office was very easy and the brewery so those were

[0:19:51] Voice 10: no no complaints whatsoever they were so

[0:19:54] Voice 5: what other what other what other provisions have been

[0:19:57] Voice 5: made for other contractors uh heavy equipment operators

[0:20:00] Voice 5: We actually

[0:20:04] Voice 10: didn't have anything for contractors.

[0:20:06] Voice 10: We just added that in, and everything is complaint-driven.

[0:20:10] Voice 10: So as far as I know, you're the first.

[0:20:14] Voice 10: So the provisions that are in there are just brand new

[0:20:18] Voice 10: in anticipation as the island is changing,

[0:20:23] Voice 10: as populations have grown,

[0:20:25] Voice 10: as we become very much more residential,

[0:20:28] Voice 10: that there will be in the future probably more issues.

[0:20:33] Voice 10: And it's a matter of being able to live and work in a residential neighborhood, taking into account that those people are in a residential area.

[0:20:44] Voice 9: And there are limits. We only regulate land use, not business licenses, not commercial operations.

[0:20:51] Voice 9: So we can only control designating the use that the lot that is allowed to use.

[0:20:59] Voice 9: So we've done our best with this recent amendment to the land use bylaw.

[0:21:04] Voice 9: It may need to be tweaked and moving forward.

[0:21:07] Voice 9: And so this is all good information that comes in.

[0:21:10] Voice 9: But I think as it stands today, staff's interpretation is that you are in violation of the land use bylaw.

[0:21:15] Voice 9: So this is the

[0:21:16] Voice 9: pathway to compromise.

[0:21:17] Voice 5: I think the difficulty with that is while there's been a determination made, there hasn't been a lot of maths applied to it.

[0:21:24] Voice 5: It's very hard to understand the formula in which Warren or his team

[0:21:29] Voice 5: or whoever's had a part in the determination has come to that conclusion

[0:21:33] Voice 5: because it's not clearly laid out A, B, C, D, why you're in violation.

[0:21:38] Voice 5: It's just said you're in violation.

[0:21:40] Voice 5: So it's quite hard to accept the determination.

[0:21:43] Voice 5: And quite frankly, I don't accept it because it's coming down

[0:21:48] Voice 5: down to an interpretation over how those bylaws are written word for word

[0:21:54] Voice 13: on the documents

[0:21:56] Voice 5: that are presented to us online. And word for word, it still makes no sense that that

[0:22:02] Voice 5: determination was made.

[0:22:03] Voice 9: Yeah, it's quite common for property owners to differ in their interpretation to staff.

[0:22:09] Voice 9: And that's why we work towards compliance. And you need to have that conversation with

[0:22:14] Voice 9: bylaw, which Warren is

[0:22:16] Voice 9: online today. Thank you. But are you able to continue this with

[0:22:24] Voice 12: Ben

[0:22:25] Voice 9: or offer any more clarity about the varying interpretations of the land use bylaw?

[0:22:32] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): Yes, Ben should call me so that we can discuss it and I can explain it, I believe, in more detail.

[0:22:39] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): Although I believe the letter sent is actually very well written and detailed

[0:22:44] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): and but you know if we're going to get down to the definitions of words then you know you should

[0:22:51] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): call me so we can have that discussion

[0:22:53] Voice 9: is that sufficient for now yeah

[0:22:57] Voice 5: yeah i will warrant yeah

[0:22:59] Voice 5: thank you thank

[0:23:00] Voice 9: you that's great okay is there anybody else who wanted to address the local

[0:23:05] Voice 9: testimony it

[0:23:06] Voice 13: feels

[0:23:08] Voice 9: like we're in school or something

[0:23:09] Voice 13: well

[0:23:11] Voice 9: it's i really appreciate you

[0:23:12] Voice 9: coming up today and and yeah bring in your concerns like i said this is very new amendment

[0:23:17] Voice 9: and uh trustee dodds as you mentioned there's um there might be more of these

[0:23:24] Voice 9: conflicts arising as the needs of the community change so yeah it's

[0:23:29] Voice 10: that's very very it's you

[0:23:31] Voice 10: know in the old days you could do pretty a lot more of whatever you wanted nowadays it's

[0:23:36] Voice 10: the level of concern

[0:23:39] Voice 10: because Flanders who lives

[0:23:41] Voice 10: across from a commercial property

[0:23:43] Voice 10: and the changes that some of us have seen

[0:23:45] Voice 10: just in the last five years

[0:23:47] Voice 10: well I mean

[0:23:48] Voice 5: it's putting every contractor on the island

[0:23:51] Voice 5: at risk by

[0:23:52] Voice 5: how you buy laws of return

[0:23:55] Voice 5: it's all I can see

[0:23:57] Voice 5: is every single one of us

[0:23:58] Voice 5: and we know all of them

[0:24:01] Voice 5: we're all guilty of driving

[0:24:03] Voice 5: down a residential road

[0:24:05] Voice 5: parking our vehicles on our property that don't constitute towards residential or agricultural

[0:24:10] Voice 5: use

[0:24:10] Voice 10: the difference is that it's not your but

[0:24:13] Voice 5: we need to go back to how because there's sticky

[0:24:15] Voice 5: points for all of us very sticky points as soon as it doesn't look residential or agricultural

[0:24:21] Voice 5: i can think of one on campbell bay road okay

[0:24:24] Voice 9: we are not going to get into talking about other

[0:24:27] Voice 9: community issues just your concern this

[0:24:29] Voice 5: is the same community issue and we're talking about

[0:24:33] Voice 5: out yeah it's going to open it up to all of us all of us all of every contractor should be in

[0:24:40] Voice 5: here today listening to why

[0:24:41] Voice 10: realistically while we were redoing our bylaws all the contractors

[0:24:47] Voice 10: it's huge it took us a year no one you know all of the contractors had every opportunity to come

[0:24:53] Voice 10: and speak to the trust committee to see how we could accommodate all of the different little

[0:24:58] Voice 10: little truck operators that are around so i we don't take any blame for that we advertise we

[0:25:03] Voice 10: talk in on in the main

[0:25:05] Voice 10: line or what we're doing so if you're concerned if you think you're doing

[0:25:08] Voice 10: something and your neighbors are going to complain because the other thing is bylaw is only based on

[0:25:13] Voice 10: complaints they don't come looking for you so if you've got somebody who's got whatever a whole

[0:25:19] Voice 10: bunch of activity happening in the residential property and there have been no bylaw complaints

[0:25:26] Voice 10: nothing happens

[0:25:27] Voice 10: operation continues and

[0:25:29] Voice 9: it's not uncommon for residents to vary in their

[0:25:31] Voice 9: interpretation of the bylaw so what some may consider parking of a truck another considers

[0:25:35] Voice 9: industrial activity and you've got bylaw trying to do a just interpretation of the bylaw so the

[0:25:41] Voice 9: bylaw is as it is and i'm going to leave it with there with you to work it out with warren

[0:25:46] Voice 9: and then potentially a temporary use permit if if we need to go that route thanks okay great

[0:25:55] Voice 9: Then I went online.

[0:25:58] Voice 5: Am I okay?

[0:26:00] Voice 9: Yep.

[0:26:01] Voice 5: Thanks, I appreciate it.

[0:26:03] Voice 3: Thank you.

[0:26:05] Voice 9: Take care.

[0:26:08] Voice 9: Excellent.

[0:26:09] Voice 9: Thanks for being here, Warren.

[0:26:10] Voice 9: Appreciate that.

[0:26:12] Voice 9: You're welcome.

[0:26:13] Voice 9: Don't think there's anything else on that topic.

[0:26:16] Voice 9: And so we'll close town hall.

[0:26:21] Voice 9: did you have anything um no

[0:26:24] Voice 8: no no just thanks for being here oh thank you

[0:26:28] Voice 8: no i just like to come because i'm a long long time resident of main island and

[0:26:33] Voice 8: wonderful when i moved here the trust was not happening yet wow so um i just

[0:26:42] Voice 8: keep track of what's going on because i know why i arrived here and

[0:26:46] Voice 8: yeah the place is growing and there's nothing i can do to stop it so i've made my complaints in

[0:26:53] Voice 8: the past and and

[0:26:55] Voice 10: i do want to point out that glenda lobbied hard to have the village be

[0:26:59] Voice 10: repaired which is immediately across from her residential property to make sure that it was

[0:27:04] Voice 10: limited everything off happening inside that structure because there's a property that could

[0:27:11] Voice 10: have whatever umpteen commercial vehicles parked on it so yeah she worked hard to keep her

[0:27:16] Voice 10: neighborhood residential which it is except for one little anomaly and this is what people are

[0:27:21] Voice 10: not understanding is that there are growing businesses in areas that were never meant to

[0:27:26] Voice 10: be businesses so kudos

[0:27:28] Voice 8: yes and yeah thank you i think i did uh but a lot of changes that come with

[0:27:36] Voice 8: how these properties uh happen these days like the one discussed today is quite different than

[0:27:43] Voice 8: and what was going on back in the day

[0:27:45] Voice 8: when that property across from me became commercial.

[0:27:51] Voice 10: Yeah, it started as a home occupation.

[0:27:54] Voice 9: Yeah.

[0:27:55] Voice 9: Well, we'll see how this develops.

[0:27:58] Voice 9: Like you said, it's the first test of that new addition

[0:28:02] Voice 9: to the Land Use By-law, so if it isn't sufficient,

[0:28:04] Voice 9: well, next round, we've got more information.

[0:28:09] Voice 9: Okay, so we'll move into approval or adoption of minutes.

[0:28:12] Voice 9: minutes. We've got minutes from the local trust committee meeting, January 27th, 2025.

[0:28:23] Voice 9: Trustee Lewis, is there anything you wanted to bring up?

[0:28:28] Voice 9: I

[0:28:28] Trustee Maude: have 11.3, which is page six. The second bullet point, it says the current zoning would

[0:28:35] Trustee Maude: change from agricultural and rural to park use,

[0:28:39] Voice 3: which

[0:28:41] Trustee Maude: isn't quite... we haven't landed, really.

[0:28:45] Voice 11: We haven't. I mean, you want it in conservation.

[0:28:48] Trustee Maude: No.

[0:28:49] Voice 11: Yeah.

[0:28:49] Voice 11: But it says that.

[0:28:51] Voice 11: Where

[0:28:52] Voice 9: does it say that?

[0:28:53] Trustee Maude: Second of

[0:28:53] Trustee Maude: all, so park use.

[0:28:55] Voice 9: Right. Yeah. Oh, but there, they

[0:28:58] Voice 9: previously indicated was suitable for resource

[0:29:00] Voice 9: conservation, I mean. Okay, so this shouldn't be an imperative that

[0:29:06] Voice 9: The current

[0:29:06] Voice 9: zoning may change, but that's the decision has not been made.

[0:29:17] Trustee Maude: Exactly, so the wood should be a May, and

[0:29:22] Trustee Maude: park use maybe shouldn't be park use.

[0:29:25] Voice 9: Park or conservation, resource conservation?

[0:29:28] Voice 9: Yeah.

[0:29:28] Trustee Maude: Okay.

[0:29:29] Voice 9: So I believe Lisa Millard, you've done the minutes. Should we change that now in the

[0:29:38] Voice 9: meeting or bring these back for adoption next meeting?

[0:29:45] Voice 2: Chair Elliott, if you just indicate

[0:29:48] Voice 2: where the change needs to be made, the recorder Catherine will note that in the minutes and it

[0:29:56] Voice 2: it will get done, and then you can adopt them as amended.

[0:30:00] Voice 9: Great. So, Catherine, we'll change the second bullet on page six from wood to may.

[0:30:10] Voice 9: Okay.

[0:30:11] Voice 9: And then may change from agricultural and rural to park use or resource conservation.

[0:30:19] Voice 10: No, I would say to conservation, to a conservation zone.

[0:30:23] Voice 9: To a conservation zone?

[0:30:27] Voice 11: Or just say to conservation, because I think it's a site-specific zone within the conservation

[0:30:34] Voice 11: zone.

[0:30:34] Voice 9: So, it may change from agricultural and rural to conservation zoning.

[0:30:41] Trustee Maude: Or conservation use.

[0:30:43] Trustee Maude: Conservation use.

[0:30:45] Voice 9: Conservation use.

[0:30:46] Voice 9: Sure.

[0:30:47] Trustee Maude: That way we're only changing two words.

[0:30:49] Voice 9: Great.

[0:30:49] Voice 2: Okay.

[0:30:51] Trustee Maude: And it was a very complicated conversation, so the minutes are excellent.

[0:30:57] Trustee Maude: and the

[0:30:58] Trustee Maude: fact that we could only change two words

[0:30:59] Trustee Maude: I think you should be very proud of yourself

[0:31:01] Voice 9: excellent, okay

[0:31:03] Voice 9: can we adopt

[0:31:06] Voice 9: the minutes as amended

[0:31:08] Voice 9: alright

[0:31:09] Voice 9: thank you

[0:31:11] Voice 9: that sounds good

[0:31:12] Voice 9: so our follow-up action list on page

[0:31:16] Voice 9: 10, any questions

[0:31:17] Voice 9: or updates from

[0:31:19] Voice 9: uh

[0:31:22] Voice 13: most of it's

[0:31:25] Voice 13: been green

[0:31:33] Voice 13: yeah

[0:31:34] Voice 11: i mean except for i guess what number six we have received the temporary use from it from

[0:31:39] Voice 11: oh okay from the owners um number

[0:31:44] Trustee Maude: seven we can get cc'd on that letter i

[0:31:47] Voice 9: i did get an update

[0:31:49] Voice 9: i'm just trying to i

[0:31:51] Voice 11: i don't know if that was a formal letter or just an email that

[0:31:54] Voice 11: warden said but I can I can check on that yeah I

[0:32:01] Voice 9: didn't yeah I wish the staff

[0:32:04] Voice 9: letter but that would be great to get that okay if there's nothing else we

[0:32:14] Voice 9: will move into your main the meat of the meeting so the housing options phase two

[0:32:23] Voice 9: we've got a very very lengthy had to read it three times in a report by

[0:32:29] Voice 9: So this is the first lips for many of us at what would the housing options in the housing

[0:32:37] Voice 9: strategic plan look like if they showed up in her amendments to the land use bylaw?

[0:32:43] Voice 9: Why don't you take it away?

[0:32:44] Voice 11: Yeah, so, um, yeah, I'm excited about this, because, um, this is our next step in the

[0:32:51] Voice 11: in our housing options project, which was put on hold for a little while with the land

[0:32:58] Voice 11: use bylaw review and then we had our public meeting in October, I think it was. And so

[0:33:10] Voice 11: this is, following this meeting, we can hopefully move to draft bylaws

[0:33:18] Voice 11: or not, depending on how far we get. But I've gone into detail on every

[0:33:26] Voice 11: action that's listed in the um the action uh in the main island housing action plan

[0:33:35] Voice 11: and so appendix one identifies all the actions that are specifically land use related so related

[0:33:42] Voice 11: to amendments in of the ocp or the land use bylaw um and so i've gone through those methodically

[0:33:52] Voice 11: throughout this report. So I think the best way to move forward is to go through each

[0:33:59] Voice 11: action one by one and identify what's needed from the LTC. In some cases, it's providing

[0:34:10] Voice 11: some draft language. In other cases, there's still some outstanding questions. So if there

[0:34:18] Voice 11: are no other questions just related to the process here i can start to move forward

[0:34:25] Voice 11: uh with each action good to go yeah yeah excellent go all right let's do this

[0:34:32] Voice 11: um okay so uh the first set of actions are really just related to updates and information to reform

[0:34:39] Voice 11: the housing project we've got we'll be updating population predictions um based on needs

[0:34:46] Voice 11: assessment so that needs assessment we've got a trust-wide uh um consultant doing trust-wide

[0:34:53] Voice 11: needs assessments for each ltc and that should be done by march so it um well the timing is good for

[0:35:00] Voice 11: us uh and so that's just that's basically just updating that um those numbers um and that is a

[0:35:07] Voice 11: requirement now for the from the province to have those updated needs assessments and for those to

[0:35:12] Voice 11: be recognized in the bylaws question just

[0:35:14] Voice 10: in in that somewhere in that section i think because

[0:35:18] Voice 10: maine i keep saying we're at build out or almost at build up it'd be

[0:35:22] Voice 10: really nice to know how many

[0:35:23] Voice 10: lots we currently have and how many are constructed yeah just yeah wherever i know it's out there

[0:35:29] Voice 10: somewhere yeah we have that okay so you

[0:35:31] Voice 10: want us built out

[0:35:32] Voice 11: an uh analysis basically yeah just uh

[0:35:36] Voice 11: we have

[0:35:36] Voice 11: and how many still to come yeah we're pretty close like it is pretty close yes

[0:35:43] Voice 11: to how many yeah and we can include that in that piece um we've had the workshop on the

[0:35:57] Voice 11: suitable land analysis so that that tool brings together a variety of data i've referred to land

[0:36:02] Voice 11: suitability a few times through here and and again that suitability is related to um whatever

[0:36:09] Voice 11: I mean, the local trust committee can decide what kind of information you want to inform, how you determine where to put additional density and suitable analysis is one tool with a variety of data that can be chosen if you'd like to use that approach.

[0:36:32] Voice 11: There are some new definitions, so going through the variety of actions here, there is a need

[0:36:40] Voice 11: to redefine things, both based on where we are in time and also providing some clarity

[0:36:49] Voice 11: across the trust, but also within your own bylaws. So some of those definitions have

[0:36:56] Voice 11: been identified as they relate to the different sections.

[0:37:01] Voice 11: So that's that section. That's just the basic information updates. Any other questions related to that?

[0:37:09] Voice 11: No? Okay. So the next section here is related to the goal of expanding opportunities to build secondary suites and accessory dwelling units.

[0:37:20] Voice 11: so our first um and i've i've identified some definitions um so there's there's a a little bit

[0:37:29] Voice 11: of a an amendment to some of the current definitions and an additional definition that

[0:37:34] Voice 11: has been included so the the definition accessory dwelling units that's been one that's kind of been

[0:37:42] Voice 11: defined differently throughout the Islands Trust area and so we we are encouraging the use of that

[0:37:52] Voice 11: definition the provincial definition which is which refers to an additional dwelling unit

[0:37:58] Voice 11: which may be attached or internal so secondary suites are accessory dwelling units and so

[0:38:06] Voice 11: so are detached units, and that is the provincial BC housing definition.

[0:38:15] Voice 11: So to maintain consistency with that, I think, is very important for funding programs

[0:38:21] Voice 11: and all sorts of things like that, so that people don't get confused.

[0:38:25] Voice 11: And it is an interesting one, because it's different across the chest area.

[0:38:31] Voice 2: So

[0:38:31] Voice 11: we're trying to create some consistency.

[0:38:33] Voice 11: um we did have a definite the definition of accessory dwelling unit that was currently in

[0:38:38] Voice 11: the local uh the land use bylaw referred to uh dwelling units that were accessory to a commercial

[0:38:45] Voice 11: or industrial use so that's been changed so so this accessory down dwelling unit uh definition

[0:38:52] Voice 11: relates to um can be used in the context of a residential those additional units in all zones

[0:39:01] Voice 11: And so

[0:39:02] Voice 11: then we created a new definition, accessory residential use, to refer to those units that are accessory to another use, a non-residential use.

[0:39:18] Voice 3: So

[0:39:18] Voice 11: we're using accessory dwelling unit to refer to the accessory unit that's accessory to the non-residential use.

[0:39:26] Voice 11: we now have that's universal and this other definition is referring to that you know if

[0:39:32] Voice 11: you've got a residential use um that's uh associated with the commercial or in addition

[0:39:36] Voice 11: to the commercial use on the property and then cottage um so we've added to the definition of

[0:39:43] Voice 11: cottage that it's a that it means a detached accessory dwelling unit to connect cottage to

[0:39:49] Voice 11: accessory dwelling unit so we did have a staff some conversation about whether we should remove

[0:39:55] Voice 11: roof cottage because it basically is an accessory dwelling unit but that would really complicate the

[0:40:00] Voice 11: bylaws and also the fact that that's just been the way you know that the um

[0:40:05] Voice 13: there's a history

[0:40:07] Voice 11: and a tradition there on how we refer to those units so they

[0:40:11] Voice 9: shall take cottages they are paying

[0:40:13] Voice 9: cottages so all that

[0:40:16] Voice 11: said you'll now know what i'm talking about when i refer to these particular

[0:40:19] Voice 11: which is why I put these right up in the front there um okay so option number four

[0:40:25] Voice 11: require um worker housing for significant commercial rezoning so um I've provided some

[0:40:34] Voice 11: draft language here in this case there um there currently aren't any requirements for worker

[0:40:39] Voice 11: housing with respect to commercial rezoning outside of visitor accommodation so visitor

[0:40:43] Voice 11: accommodation does require worker housing. So this can be accommodated and encouraged by adding an

[0:40:54] Voice 11: additional policy to the OCP that employee accommodation may be required for significant

[0:41:02] Voice 11: commercial rezoning. So when commercial rezoning application comes forward, this policy will

[0:41:10] Voice 11: will support the ask for the employee accommodation and so here I'm looking to see if you have

[0:41:18] Voice 11: questions or if you're in agreement with this change and if you're in agreement with this

[0:41:21] Voice 11: change and it's a

[0:41:22] Voice 11: ticket then we're good to go okay okay okay the next

[0:41:26] Voice 11: up okay may

[0:41:28] Trustee Maude: have a good

[0:41:28] Trustee Maude: word okay

[0:41:29] Voice 11: all right so action uh number five increased flexibility for residential use in

[0:41:36] Voice 11: commercial areas so um so c3 and c4 um they currently only allow for accessory dwelling

[0:41:46] Voice 11: units for the accommodation of the owner operator or employee of the permitted principal use

[0:41:54] Voice 11: um so this is the question for trustees is whether you want to retain that specific

[0:42:01] Voice 11: specific use or whether you want to make it more flexible to support other workers on

[0:42:10] Voice 11: the island. So the change that I've proposed is to make it more flexible to allow for the

[0:42:21] Voice 11: rental of a unit that may be associated with the commercial zone property, not just for

[0:42:30] Voice 11: the owner operator or employee but also could be potentially for other people okay

[0:42:34] Voice 9: so that increases

[0:42:35] Voice 9: okay great yeah okay

[0:42:37] Voice 11: so far we're getting two for two for two okay all right so this next one

[0:42:43] Voice 11: strata subdivision of accessory dwelling units and suitable areas so right now um the only um

[0:42:50] Voice 11: The only sort of reference to subdivision is not allowing subdivision for secondary suites.

[0:43:03] Voice 11: So there's two considerations here with respect to strategies for buildings.

[0:43:10] Voice 11: there's strategies for new builds, and both of these are processes that the Land Titles

[0:43:19] Voice 11: Act is responsible for, so they require land title approval, but they require, sorry, they

[0:43:29] Voice 11: require the Island's Trust, they would require the local trust committee's approval before

[0:43:36] Voice 11: before the land titles office can approve.

[0:43:39] Voice 11: So, and these are stratas for new builds.

[0:43:44] Voice 11: And so that's, you know, if somebody wants to build duplex,

[0:43:47] Voice 11: just new, straight up, and those are fairly,

[0:43:50] Voice 11: that's an easier process as I understand it.

[0:43:52] Voice 11: And you can just outright do that.

[0:43:54] Voice 11: And you can just outright do that.

[0:43:55] Voice 11: There's nothing prohibiting that in your bylaws

[0:43:57] Voice 11: at the moment.

[0:43:59] Voice 11: A strata conversion for an existing building.

[0:44:03] Voice 11: building so there's like i said the only thing that exists in your uh land use file is uh is

[0:44:10] Voice 11: not allowing not allowing uh the the uh the conversion of a secondary suite um a strata

[0:44:18] Voice 11: conversion of a secondary suite so you have that very specifically and as i understand from from

[0:44:23] Voice 11: robert i i test sort of touch base on these with him that that was put there to protect the the

[0:44:30] Voice 11: at the time, maybe it was when you were doing your housing work,

[0:44:33] Voice 11: I was put to protect the rental stock.

[0:44:39] Voice 11: So if you want to retain that, you can retain that.

[0:44:43] Voice 11: If you don't have anything written into the bylaw related to strata,

[0:44:49] Voice 11: it's not identifying any, it's not prohibiting that to go forward.

[0:44:58] Voice 11: It will still require local trust committee approval on an individual basis.

[0:45:09] Voice 11: So you're still allowing the way that it stands now, that is allowed, except for with respect

[0:45:17] Voice 11: to secondary suites.

[0:45:18] Voice 11: So the question really is, do you want...

[0:45:20] Voice 11: So, I

[0:45:21] Voice 10: know for the main island resort, we had to give money to Strava.

[0:45:27] Voice 10: So, it's only for currently existing, so I'm thinking like we have the Blue Vista Motel.

[0:45:33] Voice 10: If they wanted to convert it to Strava, then they would have to come to the trust committee to do that,

[0:45:38] Voice 10: which I think, in all fairness, most of our buildings are, the community's used to them being what they are,

[0:45:44] Voice 10: and that they're going to be a change that it should come to the trust committee.

[0:45:48] Voice 10: Yes, it would.

[0:45:48] Voice 10: So, I think we should leave that.

[0:45:50] Voice 11: just leave it

[0:45:51] Voice 11: yeah okay because that's what i've recommended yeah i think that's great people have

[0:45:59] Voice 11: expectations okay so

[0:46:01] Voice 11: the next one is to expand secondary suite permission in suitable areas

[0:46:05] Voice 11: and so this is where um so right now um secondary suites are permitted in all residential areas

[0:46:11] Voice 11: excluding water districts that's for schedule d in the land use bylaw um um and so this is really

[0:46:20] Voice 11: really just this would just be to remove schedule D and um um and the the proposed deletion is just

[0:46:32] Voice 11: the reference to um uh the second the reference isn't just a reference to schedule D so that's

[0:46:41] Voice 11: something that we can do and then um you know be and then make sure that we send the referral to

[0:46:49] Voice 11: the water districts so that they can have their say that's the most straightforward way of doing it

[0:46:55] Voice 10: like i'm all for all of that concern i have is that the last dwelling that i'm aware of that

[0:47:00] Voice 10: put in a secondary suite now is an airbnb so how so we're encouraging construction of secondary

[0:47:08] Voice 10: suites so somewhere along the way we have to somehow make sure that they become full-time

[0:47:14] Voice 10: rentals versus airbnbs bed and breakfast so

[0:47:18] Voice 11: i think you have that opportunity through your tup

[0:47:20] Voice 11: process for for well vacation but if you live on the property

[0:47:25] Voice 11: yeah it's a bed oh i

[0:47:26] Voice 11: see right right

[0:47:27] Voice 11: you can actually be very specific and i

[0:47:31] Voice 11: uh i know and i don't think maine says that

[0:47:36] Voice 11: okay but there are some we actually there are other um ltcs that that have that so you can

[0:47:43] Voice 11: specify that

[0:47:44] Voice 10: secondary suites cannot be used for it. So the ones that are already there's a few

[0:47:48] Voice 10: that are already operating as bed and breakfast they've removed the stoves from their kitchens

[0:47:53] Voice 10: um so they could be they would still be grandfathered? Right yeah okay so a little

[0:47:59] Voice 10: red flag there for how we have to make sure I think because I was kind of disappointed that

[0:48:05] Voice 10: this new one then immediately started advertising and then there was a

[0:48:09] Voice 10: complaint made the complaint

[0:48:11] Voice 10: it's not valid because they only rent it when they actually are on island but it becomes a gray area

[0:48:16] Voice 10: so okay well that's uh yeah so that would

[0:48:20] Voice 11: be i what i can look at is the the home business um

[0:48:24] Voice 11: relating to uh just wanted to red flag that

[0:48:27] Voice 10: yeah yeah no that's because that it's more attractive

[0:48:31] Voice 10: attractive to the people that can make more money yeah and that's not the purpose of what we're doing

[0:48:36] Voice 10: yeah

[0:48:36] Voice 11: yeah yeah no that's a really very good um very good point so i'll write that down and i'll

[0:48:41] Voice 11: so i'll come back with the with a proposal for to address that okay so other than that any other

[0:48:50] Voice 10: questions or issues no i

[0:48:52] Voice 10: just want to say i was here when we originally did the secondary suites

[0:48:56] Voice 10: and we met with all the water districts and and you know and we can send the referral out to them

[0:49:01] Voice 10: but they also the point was that most of the water districts are a build out so there's not

[0:49:07] Voice 10: a lot of

[0:49:07] Voice 10: new construction rain water is attached to the secondary secondary suites uptake on secondary

[0:49:14] Voice 10: suites i remember from bowen island it's extremely low so it just went

[0:49:18] Voice 3: there's

[0:49:19] Voice 10: no public except

[0:49:20] Voice 3: but

[0:49:21] Voice 10: to know that it's not like it would be overrun

[0:49:24] Voice 10: some of them are already struggling but also

[0:49:28] Trustee Maude: the the water this is our own proven districts and

[0:49:31] Trustee Maude: they can prohibit. So

[0:49:32] Trustee Maude: they already have that control. So because we open a door doesn't mean

[0:49:38] Trustee Maude: the door is open. Good

[0:49:39] Voice 10: point. Yes, I like that. Okay,

[0:49:44] Voice 10: doesn't mean you can come through.

[0:49:46] Voice 13: Okay,

[0:49:47] Voice 11: so the next one, action number eight, to permit ADUs on smaller lots,

[0:49:57] Voice 11: So there I explained the confusion with cottages and blah blah blah.

[0:50:01] Voice 11: So right now the smaller lots are only allowed, lots under 0.6 hectares are allowed to have

[0:50:20] Voice 11: of an additional unit but that's only with the um during the flexible housing um pilot area um

[0:50:28] Voice 11: uh so i was looking through i was looking through um other i was looking well i was looking through

[0:50:36] Voice 11: the housing um toolkit at the other um other ltcs and what um parcel sizes look for and i was also

[0:50:47] Voice 11: looking through main subdivision parcel sizes. So you can have parcels with respect. The minimum

[0:50:59] Voice 11: parcel size for subdivision is 0.4 hectares. And we don't have anything sort of lower than that

[0:51:10] Voice 11: in terms of like across the trust for additional units so my instinct is to say if i wouldn't go

[0:51:18] Voice 11: i wouldn't suggest that you go any lower than that just because there's reasons for that right and it

[0:51:24] Voice 11: can be you know septic and like all the all of those different reasons unless you do some further

[0:51:29] Voice 11: analysis i wouldn't go lower than an acre uh with an additional unit but you could um i mean you you

[0:51:38] Voice 11: You know, you could go down to an acre, and that would be a fairly straightforward amendment, as I've identified.

[0:51:49] Voice 11: You may want to consider that if you are going – what I've identified in the proposed –

[0:51:55] Voice 11: well, and I've also identified to you that if you did go down to 0.4, which is an acre,

[0:52:01] Voice 11: then that would be an additional 107 properties that would be able to have an additional unit.

[0:52:09] Voice 11: um uh so like i've identified there it's a fairly straightforward um change one of the the things

[0:52:16] Voice 11: that i've provided as an option for you to consider is whether you want to uh restrict the

[0:52:23] Voice 11: size so currently the size of this additional unit which is a cottage um is a roughly a thousand

[0:52:30] Voice 11: square feet um you could have that the same for the uh the smaller size or you could this

[0:52:38] Voice 11: or you could have a smaller unit size for that uh smaller size of lot anyways that option is

[0:52:45] Voice 11: is just that's what the option that i've identified for you but um uh yeah so the

[0:52:51] Voice 10: conversation is just thinking about the house size so the house size of the cottage size

[0:52:56] Voice 10: can the language be like what we have in the flexible housing like a combined yes it provides

[0:53:01] Voice 10: yeah okay well

[0:53:03] Voice 11: so the one uh yeah okay so i think yes absolutely and i think the one

[0:53:09] Voice 11: consideration for that is that is that if you have a house that's already larger yes beyond

[0:53:14] Voice 11: that size then they wouldn't be on that

[0:53:16] Voice 10: right so okay right right so

[0:53:18] Voice 13: you have a normal size house

[0:53:20] Voice 10: then you can have a thousand square foot project.

[0:53:22] Voice 10: So you want me to look that up?

[0:53:24] Voice 10: Yeah.

[0:53:25] Voice 10: So that then

[0:53:26] Voice 10: for the properties that are under-

[0:53:28] Voice 10: That are less?

[0:53:29] Voice 11: Yeah.

[0:53:30] Voice 10: Between

[0:53:30] Voice 11: an acre and a 1.5?

[0:53:32] Voice 11: Right.

[0:53:33] Voice 11: That we do

[0:53:34] Voice 11: it that way.

[0:53:34] Voice 11: Okay.

[0:53:36] Voice 3: So do you concur?

[0:53:37] Trustee Maude: I concur, but I have other questions.

[0:53:40] Voice 3: Yeah.

[0:53:42] Trustee Maude: So it says one cottage should be permitted on lots of one acre or greater in area.

[0:53:51] Voice 11: That's, yes, so that's what you currently have.

[0:53:53] Trustee Maude: That's what

[0:53:54] Voice 11: you currently have in your by-law.

[0:53:57] Trustee Maude: S? I'm an MSR.

[0:54:01] Trustee Maude: And I understood I was allowed to have one house and one cottage per acre.

[0:54:09] Voice 10: No, per acre and a half.

[0:54:11] Voice 10: Yeah,

[0:54:11] Trustee Maude: so there's that, but you had a

[0:54:13] Trustee Maude: one acre house.

[0:54:14] Trustee Maude: Okay, so in my case, right now I'm currently allowed to have five houses and five cottages.

[0:54:18] Voice 11: And

[0:54:19] Trustee Maude: it sounds to me that I'm allowed to have one cottage, though.

[0:54:21] Trustee Maude: no

[0:54:21] Voice 11: no that's this is so this is what's currently in the vial you're still allowed to have what is

[0:54:25] Voice 11: it um uh rolling uh what's the term we used uh lots the size well forever

[0:54:37] Voice 11: it's the lot size equal to lots or something

[0:54:40] Voice 10: like that so for every acre and a half

[0:54:42] Voice 10: that's still

[0:54:43] Voice 11: written in this isn't this isn't um this is not uh changing that at all

[0:54:49] Voice 11: this is just so that um a is exactly what that's just the portion that identifies size of cottage

[0:54:56] Voice 11: so that's under um that's under size and sighting in the bylaw it's

[0:55:01] Trustee Maude: just because the way i read it

[0:55:02] Trustee Maude: says one one cottage is permitted on lots of one acre or greater in areas it sounds like one

[0:55:09] Trustee Maude: cottage per lot yeah

[0:55:11] Voice 11: no we're not so we're not we're not we're not altering i think uh we're

[0:55:15] Voice 11: not altering that because

[0:55:17] Voice 10: in the seven which if you're subdividing you can like in the case of

[0:55:21] Voice 10: what i did it can't be one of the lots which you can't have a cottage but under this now they would

[0:55:26] Voice 10: be able to so you're increasing the

[0:55:28] Voice 9: density there but but i take your point that the reading here

[0:55:33] Voice 9: of three looks like so if you've got five acre property you're still only allowed one cottage

[0:55:38] Voice 9: yeah

[0:55:39] Voice 11: so we have that in so so so number three we're it's just adding so that's density so you

[0:55:45] Voice 11: So number two, above number three in the land use bylaws, there's one dwelling unit per lot and one additional dwelling unit for every 0.6 hectares, 1.5 acres of lot graded.

[0:55:59] Trustee Maude: So

[0:55:59] Voice 11: it doesn't change the...

[0:56:00] Voice 11: It doesn't change that.

[0:56:01] Voice 11: So we're not touching that.

[0:56:02] Trustee Maude: Yeah, okay.

[0:56:02] Trustee Maude: So it's just when you're looking at isolation.

[0:56:05] Voice 11: Yeah, that's what

[0:56:06] Voice 9: the problem is.

[0:56:06] Voice 9: Yeah.

[0:56:07] Voice 9: Yeah.

[0:56:08] Voice 9: Yeah.

[0:56:08] Voice 9: Okay.

[0:56:10] Voice 9: So we're both in agreement to go to one acre?

[0:56:13] Voice 9: Yeah.

[0:56:14] Voice 9: Yeah.

[0:56:14] Voice 9: Awesome.

[0:56:15] Voice 9: and the maximum floor area okay so

[0:56:18] Voice 11: i'll come back with formula yeah i'll come

[0:56:20] Voice 11: back with a suggestion

[0:56:21] Voice 11: and i'll probably um uh i think that the what i would come back with the proposal i would come

[0:56:29] Voice 11: back to you with is and we can maybe just decide here is uh what's currently in the uh flexible

[0:56:36] Voice 11: housing for

[0:56:37] Voice 3: that

[0:56:39] Voice 11: so that uh for lots under lots under um 0.6 hectares flexible housing is uh

[0:56:47] Voice 11: 2,500 square feet but that's actually on the second page here you've got that that's right

[0:56:53] Voice 10: yeah so

[0:56:53] Voice 11: so a re-agreement there yes come back with the come back with the draft bylaw with that

[0:56:58] Voice 11: number in it okay yeah

[0:57:01] Voice 10: i hadn't turned over but you you have dealt with it right there

[0:57:03] Voice 10: yeah it's right there so you have a thousand square foot cottage in a 50 square click house

[0:57:08] Voice 10: yeah

[0:57:08] Voice 11: okay um yeah so i gave you alternative options here and yeah i think we've discussed

[0:57:21] Voice 11: yeah we're good i think we're good on this are we good on this

[0:57:24] Voice 11: yeah okay good

[0:57:25] Voice 11: take okay expand flexible housing uh regulations so this is as you remember

[0:57:33] Voice 11: we did that great flexible housing regulation and we have about 65 lots that are under five

[0:57:45] Voice 11: acres that that was the in the pilot area um so we determined the pilot pilot area using a number

[0:57:53] Voice 11: a bunch of different data, including, you know, so the data we used was saltwater intrusion

[0:58:05] Voice 11: mapping. It was proximity to amenities. It involved looking at this large data set that

[0:58:12] Voice 11: looks at how water moves around and could inform how, you know, if you had a lot of

[0:58:21] Voice 11: septic systems in one place or whatever

[0:58:23] Voice 11: where it would be more challenging or

[0:58:25] Voice 11: like more

[0:58:28] Voice 11: let you know the areas

[0:58:29] Voice 11: that would have less impact and

[0:58:31] Voice 11: we came up with a pilot area

[0:58:34] Voice 11: and

[0:58:36] Voice 11: we've got the suitable

[0:58:37] Voice 11: land and so the suitable land analysis

[0:58:39] Voice 11: was built off of

[0:58:41] Voice 11: off of that methodology and that's

[0:58:44] Voice 11: it's a much more complex methodology

[0:58:45] Voice 11: and I'm excited to

[0:58:48] Voice 11: to say to see

[0:58:50] Voice 11: that uh that the area that we identified as our pilot area comes out as suitable

[0:58:55] Voice 11: yeah suitable land analysis which was really really quite great to be great to see um

[0:59:00] Voice 11: so expanding this there's a couple of um of questions for uh the ltc

[0:59:09] Voice 11: um one there you you have had some discussion about um including larger size lots so

[0:59:16] Voice 11: So I'd need some direction around that.

[0:59:22] Voice 11: And then the other question would be,

[0:59:27] Voice 11: is about just expanding in general

[0:59:30] Voice 11: and what criteria you would want to use to expand that.

[0:59:34] Voice 11: The Subo land analysis does provide an opportunity

[0:59:38] Voice 11: to look at possible areas of expansion

[0:59:42] Voice 11: based on a number of different criteria.

[0:59:44] Voice 11: So yeah, those are my two questions

[0:59:47] Voice 11: is one do you want to expand larger and how large uh and two what criteria do you want to expand

[0:59:54] Voice 11: do you want it to be expanded for smaller into more area and what's the criteria you'd like to use

[1:00:02] Voice 10: And I think I asked, it would be really helpful if we had a map that showed that green.

[1:00:08] Voice 10: That didn't show all the southern layers.

[1:00:10] Voice 10: It would be nice to get that to see.

[1:00:12] Voice 10: To me, I can't remember how much, but to me, all of Felix Jack Road, all of Village Bay Road, all of Fern Hill Road.

[1:00:21] Voice 10: I mean, basically down to Bennett Bay, excluding anything that's in the land, ALR, and probably Campbell Bay Road up to the recycle.

[1:00:32] Voice 10: Those are all areas that are kind of the core transportation, shopping services, et cetera.

[1:00:41] Voice 10: So to me, all of those, that area.

[1:00:44] Voice 10: And I suspect if I could actually

[1:00:46] Voice 11: see that.

[1:00:48] Voice 11: Yeah, a map can identify.

[1:00:50] Voice 11: So, yeah, so it can show how it relates, the stability relates to the

[1:00:55] Voice 11: areas that you've

[1:00:56] Voice 11: identified.

[1:00:57] Voice 11: Yeah, I can come back.

[1:00:58] Voice 10: Okay.

[1:00:58] Voice 11: Okay.

[1:00:58] Voice 10: Yeah.

[1:00:59] Voice 10: Because like slopes and I mean, there's a bit of slope when you go up the haillight

[1:01:04] Voice 10: where it's been at bay, but most of that area, especially Village Jack Road, which we know

[1:01:08] Voice 10: has, or I know has huge, pretty huge producing wells.

[1:01:13] Voice 13: So

[1:01:13] Voice 10: that's an excellent area.

[1:01:15] Voice 10: Village Bay is a little trickier because of the way the transportation of the road network

[1:01:20] Voice 10: I'm not quite sure how that would work, in terms of slope and concern, and that map of

[1:01:28] Voice 10: the wells is totally no good.

[1:01:32] Trustee Maude: So, out to the church?

[1:01:35] Voice 10: I don't, I don't get, we already have that high density at the church, we've got

[1:01:39] Voice 10: slope instability along the foreshore.

[1:01:42] Trustee Maude: Yeah, but

[1:01:43] Voice 10: I'm just thinking about all that

[1:01:44] Trustee Maude: stuff that's going on off of Garrick,

[1:01:46] Trustee Maude: there's a lot of...

[1:01:48] Voice 10: Well but that it's still a pretty more traffic on Georgiana Point Road

[1:01:53] Voice 10: with with the instability of the bank but basically you know Highways has said well

[1:01:57] Voice 10: when it collapses we but

[1:01:58] Trustee Maude: this wouldn't be past that like I'm saying like yeah

[1:02:02] Trustee Maude: they've

[1:02:03] Voice 10: put those big cement blocks there for a reason and there's a lot of midden right there

[1:02:07] Voice 10: so that's my concern about anything on Georgiana Point Road um is that just it's precarious and

[1:02:15] Voice 10: right now like the traffic going up past the church even i mean there's no shoulders there

[1:02:20] Voice 10: transportation yeah i think some of the eric road that you're talking about already has his own

[1:02:25] Voice 10: and can come in from campbell bay road anyways yeah um so i i can't see that

[1:02:33] Voice 10: for that reason i

[1:02:36] Trustee Maude: guess i just i just knowing that the the owners along there

[1:02:40] Trustee Maude: they probably have this sufficient interest in the capital to develop some of these things

[1:02:45] Voice 11: Well, and anybody can come at any time.

[1:02:48] Voice 11: I think that's also an option, is that you could put out a request for homeowners that are interested in having their properties looked at for this.

[1:03:06] Voice 11: so if they if they fall out of what appears to be suitable and potential then we can

[1:03:12] Voice 11: sort of

[1:03:13] Voice 11: site specifically go and have a look that

[1:03:15] Voice 3: would work okay

[1:03:16] Voice 11: no that's good idea okay

[1:03:18] Voice 11: so what I've got here then so in terms of expanding the those that are up to five acres

[1:03:25] Voice 11: I can come back with a map that identifies suitable areas and we can I can maybe draft a

[1:03:34] Voice 11: letter to call out to homeowners if they like their property, if they don't fall within that,

[1:03:42] Voice 11: for them to come forward for their

[1:03:45] Trustee Maude: property to be looked at.

[1:03:46] Trustee Maude: Math of suitable areas, how is that defined?

[1:03:52] Voice 11: Again, we'll use quite the variety of criteria

[1:03:56] Voice 11: that we used previously and we've got a bit more now as well.

[1:04:00] Trustee Maude: Because what was presented to us

[1:04:02] Trustee Maude: last time I had no faith in at

[1:04:03] Voice 11: all. Well we'll use what so some of what the data that's in that

[1:04:08] Voice 11: was in that suitable land analysis is data that we used previously to identify the the pilot area

[1:04:15] Voice 11: for here so we can use that same data and there's there are there are some data that some of the

[1:04:23] Voice 11: data we are like particularly confident about and we can use that data that's the only data that we

[1:04:29] Voice 11: have available to us um to be able to uh identify like specific areas um and and what i can do is

[1:04:38] Voice 11: come back with a map and then and then you can identify whether you you whether you feel confident

[1:04:43] Voice 11: with that information it may be that you that there's specific understandings of certain

[1:04:48] Voice 11: properties that maybe they aren't they don't make sense to include right or there are things that

[1:04:54] Voice 11: that are not captured on what I might propose to you.

[1:04:58] Voice 11: And that's where you have the opportunity to identify

[1:05:00] Voice 11: that you do want it to be expanded there.

[1:05:03] Voice 11: And then like you were saying,

[1:05:04] Voice 11: there may be specific conditions where you have a landowner

[1:05:08] Voice 11: that has the capital, that has the interest,

[1:05:10] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): and

[1:05:10] Voice 11: it's a matter of just having a look

[1:05:11] Voice 11: and seeing if it makes sense to include them.

[1:05:14] Voice 11: So we can make it flexible so that where you decide

[1:05:19] Voice 11: is what we've used as,

[1:05:21] Voice 11: that we've been able to use a bit of a process

[1:05:24] Voice 11: us to determine.

[1:05:25] Trustee Maude: It's just my concern is that the data that I saw last week, I just have no faith

[1:05:31] Trustee Maude: in. Like the saltwater intrusion, the well data, the sensitive ecosystem data, zero faith. Well,

[1:05:40] Voice 11: if there are data, if there are specific pieces of data that you don't want to be

[1:05:43] Voice 11: considered in this analysis, then we don't need to consider that. Like I say, it gives us a

[1:05:50] Voice 11: starting point for a discussion and i can come back with a proposal that's based on

[1:05:55] Voice 11: on on that analysis but there's opportunity to to to question what i might propose to you

[1:06:03] Voice 10: yeah but i guess the other

[1:06:05] Voice 10: problem was it's really hard to read that map so yes i mean the

[1:06:09] Voice 10: wells is a no-go well we've changed the whole approach to wells because we actually see a map

[1:06:15] Voice 11: Yeah, well, what

[1:06:16] Voice 11: each layer? Yeah, totally. And

[1:06:18] Voice 11: the wells, I mean, really, it's about well density. And so when you look at it from a well density perspective, it's actually really quite accurate, accurate, because it shows that there's high well density where there is a lot of

[1:06:29] Voice 11: um unit well i mean we'll just yeah

[1:06:34] Voice 9: let's

[1:06:36] Voice 11: let's just focus on a

[1:06:37] Voice 9: good step but we'll let the

[1:06:39] Voice 9: trustees express okay because we need to get past this um your lack of confidence in the tool

[1:06:47] Voice 9: um planner chadwick is confident in the tool we have a discrepancy on the well data okay so

[1:06:53] Voice 9: um how can we get past this rather than just you know yeah

[1:06:58] Voice 11: i think i think really what it

[1:06:59] Voice 11: i think i think really the process here is i'll come back with something so a proposal of how to

[1:07:04] Voice 11: expand based on uh based on the data that i have available to me and then you can make a decision

[1:07:11] Voice 11: on whether it makes sense to expand it in that way well

[1:07:13] Voice 10: and i also think your idea of also setting

[1:07:16] Voice 10: letters out yeah i mean i think almost to anybody are you know yeah would you what are you interested

[1:07:23] Voice 10: of being included in higher density you know do you have plans would you actually build something

[1:07:30] Voice 10: because that that would really be key to that that

[1:07:33] Voice 11: would just be like literally

[1:07:35] Trustee Maude: then you'll

[1:07:37] Voice 11: have to decide on criteria to decide yeah right i

[1:07:40] Voice 11: mean there's certain things like i

[1:07:43] Voice 11: mean it's interesting that when you're talking about georgina point road i mean absolutely

[1:07:46] Voice 11: Absolutely. There's there's there's there's specific to the island considerations that that would need to be made.

[1:07:56] Voice 11: Right. So it's it.

[1:07:59] Voice 9: But what is the baseline criteria is what we actually probably should agree on,

[1:08:04] Voice 9: because if you come back with a map based on criteria and, you know, again, both trustees are like, I don't have confidence in this.

[1:08:15] Voice 9: then we're sort of still back at that starting place so what can we make some agreement on what

[1:08:21] Voice 9: that criteria is because we've got to start with something we can't just you know yeah so what i'm

[1:08:26] Voice 11: saying is everywhere yes what what i'm suggesting is that uh that i come back with and i can i can

[1:08:36] Voice 11: tell you i come back with a list uh with a with a map and i'll tell you exactly what i've used

[1:08:41] Voice 11: to to identify those properties uh that that potential expansion and then uh if if you have

[1:08:48] Voice 11: any um concerns with those particular areas then we can have a focused discussion

[1:08:53] Voice 11: and

[1:08:54] Voice 10: i was going to say i mean the audience is within reasonable distance of you know health

[1:08:59] Voice 10: center school yeah yes

[1:09:00] Voice 10: that whole transportation core which corridor which we already have

[1:09:05] Voice 10: basically. Ferry, Burnt Hill Road, Pass Montrose, and it's to me it's a no-brainer because

[1:09:12] Voice 10: with whatever density we get that is within a reasonable either walking distance or access.

[1:09:17] Voice 4: And then

[1:09:17] Voice 10: we also have our three-first power that runs through that. So and also in terms of water

[1:09:23] Voice 10: we know that Mount Park provides quite a bit of water to these areas. So these are our...

[1:09:27] Voice 11: And then you

[1:09:28] Voice 11: also said that you know that there's saltwater intrusion on Inminer's Bay

[1:09:33] Voice 11: Bay area, so we wouldn't consider Miner's Bay, right?

[1:09:37] Voice 9: So proximity to surfaces sounds like that's a criteria we can agree on?

[1:09:43] Voice 9: Yeah.

[1:09:43] Voice 9: Yeah.

[1:09:44] Voice 9: Okay.

[1:09:45] Trustee Maude: But the thing is, when we talked about saltwater intrusion, is the areas that I knew, like

[1:09:52] Trustee Maude: on that mapping, that had saltwater intrusion issues, were on the map.

[1:09:56] Voice 11: Well, and this is why you ground

[1:09:57] Voice 11: -truthed me, we've ground-truthed there, right?

[1:09:59] Voice 11: So you said Miner's Bay is salty.

[1:10:03] Trustee Maude: And

[1:10:04] Voice 10: realistically that's, don't even think about salt water, realistically Miner's Bay

[1:10:08] Voice 10: is already, it's already mega zoned, we have all that tourist accommodation that is currently

[1:10:13] Voice 10: undeveloped and heaven knows, and it's designated for commercial, so that's, it's, this is already

[1:10:19] Voice 10: heavily developed area, so where you want to start from here, I don't know, but Miner's

[1:10:25] Voice 10: Bay.

[1:10:26] Voice 10: bay. But my

[1:10:27] Trustee Maude: point is that I have no faith in saltwater intrusion, period.

[1:10:35] Trustee Maude: But also what we're trying to base this expansion on is rainwater catchment,

[1:10:40] Trustee Maude: so saltwater intrusion basically doesn't become a factor.

[1:10:43] Voice 10: Okay so let me

[1:10:44] Voice 10: pass that a little bit.

[1:10:47] Voice 10: So basically yeah, why there's a bit of remission? Well yeah okay, so

[1:10:53] Voice 11: we're not requiring

[1:10:54] Voice 11: We are requiring potable water systems, so we

[1:10:57] Voice 11: do have to make sure that there is water available for two things, because we're not requiring potable water systems for this expansion.

[1:11:09] Voice 11: We are requiring cisterns for additional capture of water, so we do need to make sure that there is sufficient potable water available.

[1:11:23] Voice 10: Well, and also the reality of our water is as soon as you apply for multiple building

[1:11:28] Voice 10: permits, you're going to have to, you have to provide potable water, so that's to

[1:11:32] Voice 3: some

[1:11:33] Voice 10: extent outside of what we can control anyways, though that's something we should be lobbying

[1:11:39] Voice 10: for small water systems.

[1:11:41] Voice 10: So

[1:11:41] Voice 9: even, yeah, a question here.

[1:11:42] Voice 9: So the subdivision regulations that you forwarded from North Pender, multi-user systems, like

[1:11:50] Voice 9: even having a suite is considered another use and rainwater catchment is not acceptable for that

[1:11:57] Voice 9: under the provincial regulations like that

[1:11:59] Trustee Maude: is still the

[1:12:00] Voice 9: case it's

[1:12:01] Trustee Maude: a gray area because like

[1:12:02] Trustee Maude: coho and denman well

[1:12:05] Voice 11: coho and denman also approved water they have enough water on their property and

[1:12:10] Voice 11: so part of that and i would also suggest that um we can't be putting housing in anywhere where

[1:12:18] Voice 11: there's no groundwater because of um fire hazard for one right so even if you have a potable system

[1:12:26] Voice 11: well climate change generally right so even if you have a potable rainwater catchment system

[1:12:32] Voice 11: we can't guarantee that we are going to have enough rainwater uh and in a case of an emergency

[1:12:39] Voice 11: so on coho they have well they've got a very large uh a backup system plus they have groundwater

[1:12:48] Voice 11: water so if there's a if there was a fire uh there um they've got they've got two options for

[1:12:57] Voice 11: uh to you know to to fight to fight the fire basically um um they're they're they don't use

[1:13:08] Voice 11: their groundwater oh okay um so the groundwater they would have quite a sufficient supply there

[1:13:14] Voice 3: they

[1:13:14] Voice 11: use it for not for drinking they do use it for watering water in there they've got quite a

[1:13:19] Voice 11: large uh garden and and so forth so question

[1:13:23] Voice 9: or sorry go ahead

[1:13:25] Trustee Maude: first could

[1:13:27] Voice 9: we could you come back

[1:13:28] Voice 9: with two maps um one that is the proximity to amenities so there's a core area that um is

[1:13:37] Voice 9: suitable for adult even look at water and a second one with the um and maybe sensitive ecosystems and

[1:13:44] Voice 9: then another one with the water mapping and we just see what how they compare so

[1:13:50] Voice 11: i would suggest

[1:13:51] Voice 11: that um you really only want to think of like i don't think you want to be putting people

[1:13:58] Voice 11: away from the proximity i mean if you want an additional amount that that has people out

[1:14:04] Voice 11: like i mean thinking about main island like this was a this was a big consideration for

[1:14:11] Voice 11: the existing pilot was that there were areas a lot like that were um you know um

[1:14:19] Voice 11: beachwood uh and what's that up there was that there's another little subdivision um

[1:14:24] Voice 11: oh it's channel d no no um um it's the it's like the map's here and it's kind of here i actually

[1:14:37] Voice 9: just i

[1:14:37] Voice 11: took a screenshot of the bath oh yeah

[1:14:39] Voice 9: like sorry so

[1:14:40] Voice 11: uh yeah so right right around

[1:14:43] Voice 11: so in the original right around here oh sorry

[1:14:48] Voice 10: gallagher bay

[1:14:49] Voice 11: gallagher bay yeah so when we

[1:14:50] Voice 11: looked at it originally there were properties and you can see there are

[1:14:53] Voice 10: some larger ones along that

[1:14:55] Voice 10: so

[1:14:55] Voice 11: the question is like do you want that consideration because in our last consideration

[1:15:00] Voice 11: we didn't we didn't consider those properties we considered i

[1:15:03] Voice 10: think the key number one should be

[1:15:04] Voice 10: within within transportation area and as somebody who drives the entire island at least twice a week

[1:15:12] Voice 10: that's a long ways away from services um you know in terms of and it's it's not an area

[1:15:19] Voice 10: i could be wrong it's not an area where you're going back hundreds of years for families and

[1:15:25] Voice 10: children and it tends to be more of a recreational area so i jelliger yeah yeah so i i at this point

[1:15:32] Voice 10: I can't see I think if you're thinking about increased density and I'm assuming that we're

[1:15:37] Voice 10: not talking about each each property have a huge amount more dense we're talking about

[1:15:41] Voice 10: if you had five acres nearby a house in a cottage and even if it was Garrick Road

[1:15:47] Voice 10: you're not talking about 100 new houses you're talking about I don't know five or six new houses

[1:15:53] Voice 10: so it's not a huge amount but at least those areas are within a walk distance to the school

[1:15:59] Voice 10: or the health center do

[1:16:00] Voice 11: you do you want to identify uh um like a kilometer ratio well that

[1:16:06] Voice 10: that's an idea

[1:16:07] Voice 10: gabriel

[1:16:08] Voice 9: has within two kilometers of the world

[1:16:10] Voice 9: which actually is not

[1:16:13] Voice 9: great because we don't have water we don't have an abundance of water

[1:16:17] Voice 9: in that area so they so multifamily dwelling units can only be within that core area but it's

[1:16:23] Voice 9: the you know it's not the water rich area so i mean that was one decision that the trustees were

[1:16:29] Voice 9: like you want

[1:16:30] Voice 9: to direct extra density to what's already developed um yeah we are seeing more

[1:16:37] Voice 9: development there and the the wells are

[1:16:39] Voice 10: decreasing so unfortunately since we're here we know it's

[1:16:44] Voice 10: like the salish growth we know that a huge amount of water comes off mount park so if you look at

[1:16:49] Voice 10: Jack Ruth, the wells, and some of the Campbell Bay wells are quite significant for use for some water.

[1:16:55] Voice 9: So how would you identify that criteria, like water that's coming off of Mount Park?

[1:17:00] Voice 9: It's all in there.

[1:17:01] Voice 9: It's all in there?

[1:17:02] Voice 9: Yeah.

[1:17:03] Voice 9: So would you feel comfortable with a map coming back?

[1:17:06] Voice 9: And if not, what kind of criteria do you want to use for?

[1:17:11] Voice 9: I mean, again, I suggest I should let the trustee answer.

[1:17:17] Trustee Maude: Well, the thing that there's water, water, water, and water, like Connor Chattel was explaining about

[1:17:24] Trustee Maude: fire hydrants. Our

[1:17:26] Trustee Maude: fire department does not use any domestic groundwater, with the exception of

[1:17:31] Trustee Maude: Village Point that has fire hydrants. If there's a fire on this island, they're bringing the water

[1:17:35] Trustee Maude: to you. So whether you're on rainwater catchment or on a well or whatever, they're not using that

[1:17:39] Trustee Maude: of water so that's kind of a bit of a red herring um is so you know a fire department does not base

[1:17:47] Trustee Maude: any other thing and i was on the improvement district for about 12 years i know where they

[1:17:52] Trustee Maude: take their water from they bring it to you they do not draw water off your property so if you have

[1:17:57] Trustee Maude: a well if you have a rainwater catch and whatever they're not touching it and

[1:18:00] Trustee Maude: trustee dodds knows

[1:18:02] Trustee Maude: from her own experience they wouldn't use their water on her probably when she had her fire

[1:18:06] Trustee Maude: So it's just, and the well data, if we're using groundwater data, it has to be correct.

[1:18:15] Voice 13: And

[1:18:16] Trustee Maude: what I saw last time was not correct.

[1:18:18] Trustee Maude: So I'm very reluctant to use any of that data.

[1:18:22] Voice 10: I don't have five wells. I have one well on my property, not five.

[1:18:26] Voice 9: So can you speak to that?

[1:18:29] Voice 11: The data was incorrect and we're looking to remedy that.

[1:18:33] Voice 11: okay yeah so so anything that was and that that was the thing uh like being able to show those

[1:18:39] Voice 11: maps to trustees before we actually use them what is about ground truthing it and so everything that

[1:18:44] Voice 11: you all the feedback that you gave us we were looking at and it's also it's also um influencing

[1:18:50] Voice 11: how we look at the maps for the other ltcs as well so i have worked with william on the uh

[1:18:55] Voice 11: the denman island like we spent early morning time we we we you know we were all very busy so

[1:19:03] Voice 11: So early morning at 7 a.m. on Friday, you know, I made sure that we went thoroughly through it so that I could understand it.

[1:19:12] Voice 11: I was taken into the back end of the data so I could more fully understand it so that we could make sure that that the discrepancies that existed could be explained, one explained up front or addressed.

[1:19:28] Voice 11: So we don't want to be basing decisions on false information.

[1:19:35] Voice 2: Absolutely not.

[1:19:36] Voice 11: And this is why I also say that I think that the methodology is very, very strong with this tool.

[1:19:44] Voice 11: I think that there is a lot of and I think that it becomes where it is very important for us to provide some scrutiny around it is in when it's actually being applied.

[1:19:58] Voice 11: And so this is where this is a great test of the application for me to come back and say, this is these are the areas that look like they could work based on some additional criteria you just provided me with.

[1:20:12] Voice 11: um and actually i do question whether you want to close or a little bit more because we're

[1:20:15] Voice 11: like the downtown downtown is a bit stretched well yeah no i'm actually

[1:20:20] Voice 10: like from from like

[1:20:21] Voice 10: the probably like where the school health center is that's probably

[1:20:24] Voice 10: the central point right yeah

[1:20:26] Voice 11: because

[1:20:26] Voice 10: you've got the community center daycare yeah

[1:20:29] Voice 10: yeah let's not forget our but

[1:20:30] Voice 11: i think what

[1:20:31] Voice 11: i can do is i can provide you with a map that'll show radius a radius on

[1:20:34] Voice 11: it and then you can decide

[1:20:36] Voice 11: slide from there but um but i i i again like the what the suitable analysis provides us with is a

[1:20:46] Voice 11: is a it's a starting point for a discussion yeah because without it we don't we don't have

[1:20:51] Voice 11: anywhere to start that discussion so um so this is why i'm suggesting i can come back um i think

[1:20:57] Voice 11: you've identified within access so we're

[1:21:01] Voice 11: gonna we're gonna focus this um this opportunity um

[1:21:05] Voice 11: Um, and, uh, and I think in terms of, I'm just thinking sort of on my feet here.

[1:21:11] Voice 11: So in terms of sending the letters, there may be, it may be an opportunity after we've

[1:21:16] Voice 11: got them out together, because they might, there might be people, there might be folks

[1:21:20] Voice 11: that are just a little bit outside and that's where we can go and check, you know, have

[1:21:24] Voice 11: a look at the properties.

[1:21:25] Voice 11: Um, the other question that you haven't answered for me yet is, um, do you want to expand it

[1:21:31] Voice 11: beyond five, um, five acre properties?

[1:21:34] Voice 11: I

[1:21:35] Voice 10: don't think the size of the properties matters as much as just controlling the amount of density on those properties.

[1:21:44] Voice 10: So was that a yes

[1:21:47] Voice 11: look at the other properties if they're within the area?

[1:21:51] Voice 11: It

[1:21:51] Trustee Maude: makes logical sense because certainly on small lots, if we're enabling it, that is having a density-wise.

[1:22:00] Trustee Maude: so if

[1:22:01] Trustee Maude: you've got a 10 acre lot to say well you're not eligible this seems to be counterintuitive

[1:22:06] Voice 9: yeah yeah so i have an idea um what if there's a community information meeting with the map

[1:22:16] Voice 9: because i feel like we need to get past this is the tool valuable or not and people could then

[1:22:23] Voice 9: look at their lots and go wait a minute i do have saltwater so i don't is it hard

[1:22:31] Voice 9: I don't

[1:22:34] Voice 11: think the discussion is about the suitable land analysis map.

[1:22:38] Voice 11: What the discussion is about is where do you want to expand flexible housing?

[1:22:45] Voice 11: So we're using the suitable land analysis as a tool to identify a draft of a map to identify the properties that you want to expand this to.

[1:22:59] Voice 11: yeah and

[1:23:00] Voice 11: that is then the opportunity to have a discussion anything outside of what's identified

[1:23:06] Voice 11: can then have we can have some conversation about whether you want to expand it and why right so uh

[1:23:12] Voice 11: if the like again i hear you if the um

[1:23:15] Voice 9: but we have a trustee who has expressed that they have

[1:23:19] Voice 9: no confidence in the tool so if we're using that tool as the baseline how do we get past this so

[1:23:26] Voice 11: So again, I interject because we used the same criteria in the past.

[1:23:33] Voice 11: We just now have a way of layering it in a very clean way.

[1:23:37] Voice 3: And

[1:23:38] Voice 11: so I'm saying, let's use the same criteria that we used previously to expand it.

[1:23:45] Voice 11: Again, the tool, it's just, there are elements of the tool that Trustee Maud is uncomfortable with.

[1:23:53] Voice 11: when you see the map with the proposed areas that's the opportunity to question why this area

[1:24:02] Voice 11: and not this other area right so i think we should be focusing this discussion on what we're using

[1:24:09] Voice 11: this criteria for if we expand it beyond then we're starting to talk well beyond what our decision

[1:24:16] Voice 11: the decision is about and and and you know there'll be decisions about other things that

[1:24:23] Voice 11: maybe we want to use this and in those cases it may not be appropriate to use this and there may

[1:24:30] Voice 11: be challenges with it. So I think that to expand this discussion beyond what we're specifically

[1:24:37] Voice 11: talking about is really problematic.

[1:24:40] Trustee Maude: But I guess like my point is you know if I have no faith

[1:24:45] Trustee Maude: then it's becoming a distraction.

[1:24:48] Voice 11: Well see this is what

[1:24:49] Voice 11: I think we should stop being distracted

[1:24:51] Voice 11: did by leave this right and and this is why i say you you have you've asked me to go away and come

[1:24:57] Voice 11: back with another map i can bring that map forward and and explain to you what what my rationale is

[1:25:05] Voice 11: based on these properties so i come back to you with a map and maybe it shows this whole area

[1:25:11] Voice 11: except for this one property and then i can say well i looked at this and i looked at the pseudomel

[1:25:17] Voice 11: and this is what it said and you can say well you know according to this particular criteria

[1:25:22] Voice 11: it doesn't look like it'll be good and you'll say well actually you know they recently you know

[1:25:28] Voice 11: because it's like you know high water recharge they they've just taken all the trees off of

[1:25:33] Voice 11: that property it's totally like so that it has no it has no value from that perspective and then

[1:25:38] Voice 11: it's like okay we've ground truth that in this within the context of this project we've ground

[1:25:43] Voice 11: to that and so we'll include that we can include that law

[1:25:45] Voice 10: and and even if once you've got this map

[1:25:48] Voice 10: and if there's a property that somehow shows high salinity then we can tap into the local knowledge

[1:25:57] Voice 10: of that because that's what

[1:25:58] Trustee Maude: we did last time

[1:25:58] Voice 10: we can say

[1:25:59] Trustee Maude: is your well is

[1:26:01] Voice 11: your well salty no it's

[1:26:02] Trustee Maude: great because as you recall last time it was one property yeah

[1:26:05] Trustee Maude: on uh on fern hill here that was

[1:26:08] Trustee Maude: identified as solid intrusion. There was absolutely no way.

[1:26:12] Voice 11: Yeah and we also did that because beechwood

[1:26:13] Voice 11: was also identified as like actually really good and then it was like no there's arsenic.

[1:26:18] Voice 11: So see this is it like we need to work, we need a starting point and

[1:26:23] Voice 9: then we need to

[1:26:24] Voice 11: ground truth it. Okay I see what you mean. We'll drill down

[1:26:27] Voice 9: later. But I just want to recognize

[1:26:29] Voice 9: that we're we're we're it when you keep using the word faith you know i have no faith in the the

[1:26:39] Voice 9: data and and it is a bit of an act of faith to to actually trust that this is robust enough

[1:26:46] Voice 9: to make decisions on and that's where we're at a bit of an impasse because there's is there any

[1:26:51] Voice 9: and i won't say there's no point but there's is there a way that we could do further work with

[1:27:00] Voice 9: a suitable land analysis map to you know send that out to for input so

[1:27:07] Voice 11: again I come back to

[1:27:08] Voice 11: we need to do it within the context of the project yeah within the context of whatever

[1:27:13] Voice 11: project that we're in that is the opportunity to provide more scrutiny because if you don't

[1:27:18] Voice 11: have a focus then it can go well beyond what the focus of the of the project is so let's keep that

[1:27:25] Voice 11: conversation within within the context of the of the

[1:27:31] Voice 11: discussion that we're having about housing and

[1:27:33] Voice 11: specifically around the decisions that we may be using that tool for as we go through this um this

[1:27:39] Voice 11: report there's other there's other uh considerations like it you know i think um if you

[1:27:46] Voice 11: want to i think i've i've identified areas where you where you want to think about suitable land

[1:27:51] Voice 11: and how you want to think about suitable land is the question whether you think that suitable land

[1:27:54] Voice 11: analysis is a tool to use to think about if that land is suitable then we use the tool if you think

[1:28:00] Voice 11: that there's another way to think about whether that land is suitable and again

[1:28:04] Voice 11: like land could

[1:28:05] Voice 11: be suitable because you've got a um you've got a landowner that is really keen to build yeah and

[1:28:10] Voice 11: has you know that's that's what i'm trying to get to is

[1:28:13] Voice 9: if there's no confidence in the tool what

[1:28:15] Voice 9: are the other options well i'm thinking

[1:28:17] Voice 10: about the salish grove project which is this huge swamp

[1:28:23] Voice 10: up which you know like today if we were talking flex housing that whole lower marshland area we

[1:28:30] Voice 10: wouldn't be putting that in but we worked through what was a problem but we have worked through

[1:28:36] Voice 10: mitigating the open thing that problem in order to accommodate how did that work

[1:28:41] Voice 9: through i'm just

[1:28:42] Voice 10: okay so when we talk about you know that the issue that may be a sensitive ecosystem on the map and

[1:28:52] Voice 10: I mean you actually don't look at that property it could be entirely because it wasn't ground

[1:28:57] Voice 10: food so I

[1:28:58] Voice 9: think we just

[1:28:59] Voice 10: need to move forward okay the well situation we will so the well

[1:29:03] Voice 10: be

[1:29:03] Voice 9: corrected yes um saltwater intrusion it sounds like there's still in your view a discrepancy well

[1:29:11] Voice 11: we agree we staff agree we looked at that data and we're like we don't like this like we don't

[1:29:14] Voice 11: like this data I looked at that for the first time I was like what and William says I've never

[1:29:19] Voice 11: had confidence in that and like a wide institution

[1:29:21] Trustee Maude: that's exactly that is exactly my point well this

[1:29:24] Voice 11: is again this is the planner working with the scientists right so it's like we have to think

[1:29:28] Voice 11: about communication here if there's if there are layers of data that we're not confident with we

[1:29:34] Voice 11: should say that straight up front yes and

[1:29:36] Voice 11: here's the salt water intrusion data we're not confident

[1:29:38] Voice 11: about it the problem they came from the province and this year and they keep changing it and blah

[1:29:42] Voice 11: should we use it or not right okay

[1:29:45] Voice 9: so that's the conversation that i think we needed to have

[1:29:50] Voice 9: because yeah it's not

[1:29:51] Voice 9: black and white

[1:29:52] Voice 11: it's not either

[1:29:53] Voice 9: you use it and

[1:29:54] Voice 11: you're basing all your

[1:29:54] Voice 11: decisions on it or you don't use it you throw it out because it's a challenge like as a uh

[1:30:00] Voice 11: you know as a our our challenge as a local a special purpose local government is

[1:30:04] Voice 11: like we don't

[1:30:05] Voice 11: have the resources to do this research on our own right so we rely on what's available so that

[1:30:12] Voice 11: suitable land analysis is based on available data some of which we are confident about like the

[1:30:16] Voice 11: the um steep slope steep slope really you know i mean it's pretty clear um some of the water stuff

[1:30:23] Voice 11: uh um the stuff that's related to you know the land contours and all of that like i mean

[1:30:30] Voice 11: that's clear science that uh that there's a lot of data accessible for it's all based on accessible

[1:30:37] Voice 11: data we haven't made anything up and some of the data sources we're confident about some we're not

[1:30:42] Voice 11: and and this is it's a communications uh um issue it was not communicated very well and i apologize

[1:30:48] Voice 11: for that on the first run, and this is the conversation that I had, is that we need to

[1:30:53] Voice 11: be really clear when we're not, we're not feeling confident about the data.

[1:30:57] Trustee Maude: But things like saltwater intrusion, the provincial province has done mapping, and the mapping

[1:31:05] Trustee Maude: that I've seen for the province, I totally agree with, and so I don't understand why

[1:31:12] Trustee Maude: our mapping isn't complying with the provincial database.

[1:31:15] Voice 11: apparently it's supposed to be right so that's where the data came from that's

[1:31:19] Trustee Maude: one thing i don't

[1:31:19] Trustee Maude: have confidence um in the same with the well but the other thing was sensitive ecosystems like the

[1:31:26] Trustee Maude: regional planning manager jumped in the meeting and said that's not right so you know that's that's

[1:31:31] Trustee Maude: our own internal staff questioning what was being presented well

[1:31:35] Voice 11: and again uh it's it's i know

[1:31:38] Voice 11: wait paul like again we didn't get to so planning staff didn't get a chance to see the maps before

[1:31:43] Voice 11: you saw and that was like a that was a a misstep um we we should have um ensured that we saw the

[1:31:49] Voice 11: maps beforehand so all of the dirty laundry was

[1:31:54] Voice 10: just out there in public in a public meeting

[1:31:56] Voice 10: and all those sensitive ecosystems are completely gone anyways but but

[1:32:03] Voice 11: i will say that the the

[1:32:04] Voice 11: sensitive ecosystem mapping that is in in that that tool engages is the sensitive ecosystem

[1:32:11] Voice 11: the mapping that we're using when we look when we do applications for um uh result well for

[1:32:17] Voice 11: everything rezonings dpas like everything right so that's that that is what we've got available

[1:32:22] Voice 11: to us and it is old and it's not

[1:32:24] Voice 11: necessarily it was fully represented it was never grown but this

[1:32:27] Voice 9: is the thing like the conservancy has had a lack of any staff or any capacity to do any of this

[1:32:34] Voice 9: work like it's just that the two pieces are not meeting so i think we've heard there you know the

[1:32:42] Voice 9: whale well data is going to be either not used or you'll get another source looking again at the

[1:32:50] Voice 9: salt water intrusion mapping and then i don't know just let go of the sensitive ecosystem mapping if

[1:32:55] Voice 9: it's not accurate well

[1:32:57] Voice 11: again i think in the in in uh within the context of a project it's much

[1:33:02] Voice 11: easier to focus in on right and so that's where again you know why did you not include this whole

[1:33:07] Voice 11: chunk well our sensitive ecosystem mapping says that it's sensitive no it's not it's like blah

[1:33:12] Voice 11: blah blah we altered it over the course of the law okay let's

[1:33:15] Voice 10: change that and the areas that

[1:33:17] Voice 10: basically i pointed out are not areas that are going to find sensitive ecosystems okay yeah so

[1:33:25] Voice 10: we're having a bit of a I know them

[1:33:26] Voice 9: all gotcha okay if

[1:33:28] Trustee Maude: we didn't use this mapping we still we

[1:33:35] Trustee Maude: we have the ability to make the decisions without being informed right

[1:33:38] Voice 11: you can make the decisions

[1:33:39] Voice 11: based on whatever you want so I

[1:33:44] Trustee Maude: totally agree with trustee dodge so it's more about location

[1:33:47] Trustee Maude: location location so what

[1:33:49] Voice 11: I'm hearing from you like in terms of next steps is you'd like me

[1:33:54] Voice 11: me to come back with a map that shows um properties that are within proximity of services and what

[1:34:01] Voice 11: i'll do is i'll on the my map i'll have like a a rich like a you know radius

[1:34:06] Voice 11: radius circles yeah

[1:34:08] Voice 3: um

[1:34:09] Voice 11: what i understand i just want confirmation from you not miners bay not

[1:34:14] Voice 10: that you know not

[1:34:15] Voice 10: the core yeah

[1:34:16] Voice 11: yeah because that would that

[1:34:17] Voice 10: would fit within your proximity

[1:34:19] Voice 11: criteria 70

[1:34:20] Voice 10: the tourist accommodation units zoned for miners bay yeah

[1:34:24] Voice 11: okay so not not miners bay okay

[1:34:26] Voice 11: um and

[1:34:27] Voice 11: they were down within this proximity to the core area yeah you'd like to like me to consider uh

[1:34:34] Voice 11: larger than five acres if it if they work is there

[1:34:38] Voice 9: whatever's downstream of mount park

[1:34:40] Voice 9: well

[1:34:42] Voice 11: pretty much all this yeah so that

[1:34:43] Voice 11: that's those are my marching orders yeah that's what i

[1:34:47] Voice 11: Is there anything else you would like me to do

[1:34:49] Voice 11: with respect to this particular?

[1:34:52] Voice 11: Great.

[1:34:54] Voice 11: Excellent.

[1:34:55] Voice 11: I've made notes along the way here.

[1:34:57] Voice 11: Just hold a few hairs out.

[1:35:00] Voice 11: Okay.

[1:35:02] Voice 11: Next goal.

[1:35:03] Voice 11: We're getting into the next category.

[1:35:06] Trustee Maude: All I'd like to say is that I've spent probably decades

[1:35:12] Trustee Maude: working with Alistair and always having the ultimate faith

[1:35:15] Trustee Maude: in what's been presented.

[1:35:18] Trustee Maude: And this is, that last week was the first time when I actually looked at something and I just, I had zero faith.

[1:35:27] Trustee Maude: And to me, it makes us as an organization look bad because it just, I couldn't agree with anything that was presented to me.

[1:35:36] Trustee Maude: And so I just, so I'm trying to raise the bar to my expectations of how good the trust is.

[1:35:44] Trustee Maude: is. And I just, I felt that presentation last week, it just, I couldn't disagree more with

[1:35:50] Trustee Maude: what was presented. There was, there wasn't one element that I agreed with. So, so that's

[1:35:56] Trustee Maude: the first time in my history with this. So I just want to just, so it's, it's, I hate

[1:36:02] Trustee Maude: chucking crap at people, but

[1:36:04] Trustee Maude: I just really hated that. So just

[1:36:07] Voice 9: to make that clear.

[1:36:08] Voice 9: Thank you, Trustee Mott. It is good to be clear. And I think we've settled on the proximity to amenities and centralities is probably the most effective tool here.

[1:36:22] Voice 4: And

[1:36:23] Voice 11: I mean, I think that in the context of Maine, that is a good way to look at it.

[1:36:29] Voice 11: Like in the constant, it was like, like, like you pointed out on Gabriela, it's tricky because

[1:36:34] Voice 11: there isn't water, but we know that there is water here.

[1:36:37] Voice 11: So it's, it's one of the, it's really, it's good because we've got a good combination

[1:36:42] Voice 11: of opportunities.

[1:36:43] Voice 11: Oh no,

[1:36:43] Voice 9: Gabriela has water.

[1:36:44] Voice 9: We've got no water.

[1:36:45] Voice 9: Anyway.

[1:36:46] Voice 9: We didn't write along.

[1:36:47] Voice 11: Moving on.

[1:36:48] Voice 11: Go on

[1:36:48] Voice 9: to the next goal.

[1:36:49] Voice 11: Cool. Expand residential use permission and permission for multi-unit development is the goal.

[1:36:56] Voice 11: Non-market.

[1:36:57] Voice 11: And so action number 10, allowing zoning for non-market housing in more land use designation, including school properties, parks, community service.

[1:37:06] Voice 11: So here, this is where, this is this idea of allowing non-market housing in places where we don't currently allow housing.

[1:37:19] Voice 11: And I've specified non-market housing because that would, it would come with, I mean, it

[1:37:26] Voice 11: could be non-market or it could just be housing in general, that's up to you.

[1:37:30] Voice 7: But

[1:37:30] Voice 11: it can, but if it's, if it's associated with an organization, then you can have a

[1:37:37] Voice 11: housing agreement that would specify the use.

[1:37:41] Voice 11: um so we've experienced the benefits of this with the teacherage where you have

[1:37:50] Voice 11: an a an organization providing a service to the local uh to the island um and and you know a lot

[1:38:00] Voice 11: of community support in that respect and this is where you um you site specifically zone that

[1:38:07] Voice 11: that property to allow for the residential unit

[1:38:10] Voice 11: that currently exists.

[1:38:13] Voice 11: There's a question whether you want to increase that

[1:38:15] Voice 11: and we can get into the details in a minute there here,

[1:38:17] Voice 11: but so you could choose to outright allow

[1:38:24] Voice 11: community service zones in the S-1,

[1:38:31] Voice 11: in the S-1 zone to include residential use

[1:38:38] Voice 11: for workers or volunteers um i i looked at the service i looked at s2 doesn't look like a

[1:38:45] Voice 11: like a good option because they tend to be smaller a lot and the services aren't necessarily

[1:38:51] Voice 11: have individuals sort of on the site um permitting houses in um there's a you could consider parks

[1:39:02] Voice 11: if you want you know i've sort of suggested that that would be an option if you'd be a political

[1:39:07] Voice 11: And for the, you know, potentially a caretaker, there's two options really in the consideration of this type, the type of housing, and one is, there's a few, so the questions are, which zones that currently don't have housing in them, do you want to permit residential use in?

[1:39:33] Voice 11: That's one question. And the second question is, in these areas, do you want to be specific that that housing is for the accommodation of employees and volunteers of the permitted principal use?

[1:39:49] Voice 11: So the draft language that I've provided you with, that is about just allowing residential use in these particular areas.

[1:39:59] Voice 11: And then the option that I provided you with is being specific, that the housing be specific to the accommodation of the employees or the volunteers.

[1:40:12] Voice 11: years. And then, so we can talk about that in general, and then we can have the conversation

[1:40:20] Voice 11: about whether you want to make some decisions around some specific, site-specific decisions.

[1:40:28] Voice 11: So, first conversation is, which zone do you want to expand residential use in public use

[1:40:39] Voice 11: and public service areas, resident regional parks and community parks.

[1:40:45] Trustee Maude: So I'm supportive of all of this.

[1:40:53] Trustee Maude: Somewhat reluctant to put any restrictions on.

[1:40:56] Trustee Maude: But the only thing I will note is that both Parks Canada and CRD,

[1:41:01] Trustee Maude: every time they've acquired a piece of property that's had a home on it,

[1:41:04] Trustee Maude: they've torn it down.

[1:41:06] Voice 3: So

[1:41:06] Trustee Maude: they don't want it.

[1:41:08] Trustee Maude: So, you know, I have no problem putting it in there, but the possibility for uptake, I think, is zero.

[1:41:14] Trustee Maude: Right.

[1:41:15] Trustee Maude: Because, like, literally, they've taken beautiful, viable homes and bulldozed them because their policy is not to have homes.

[1:41:22] Voice 11: Yeah.

[1:41:23] Voice 11: Yeah.

[1:41:23] Voice 11: So unless they check – I mean, this is the thing.

[1:41:25] Voice 11: We're in this evolving world, you know, so –

[1:41:29] Voice 11: So

[1:41:30] Trustee Maude: I don't want to be the one to put a barrier up.

[1:41:31] Trustee Maude: Well,

[1:41:31] Voice 11: their policies might be changing at some point.

[1:41:33] Voice 11: Exactly.

[1:41:33] Voice 11: Who knows, right?

[1:41:34] Voice 11: Yeah.

[1:41:34] Trustee Maude: So I like all of this.

[1:41:37] Trustee Maude: i don't i don't i don't want to put any barriers on and

[1:41:40] Voice 10: obviously we have glen echo which may have

[1:41:43] Voice 10: some capacity for housing obviously we have the school district has quite a chunk of property

[1:41:48] Voice 10: which could have more housing on it it's tired tired impossible so i 100 support what you have

[1:41:56] Voice 10: here i don't know that i think the housing i mean it's to not sort of tie i don't know that we should

[1:42:02] Voice 10: tie it to the use

[1:42:04] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): so we shouldn't

[1:42:04] Voice 10: say like for crd it would only be for park employees yeah i mean

[1:42:09] Voice 10: obviously the school you know if anybody was to build more buildings if they would want a housing

[1:42:14] Voice 10: agreement that would be for staff exactly and

[1:42:16] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): the same with

[1:42:17] Voice 10: the whole center i think this is i

[1:42:19] Voice 10: remember years ago hornby being frustrated because i think it was some parkland that was going to be

[1:42:23] Voice 10: ideal for housing and this way we'd be ready for that day so right so yeah open okay percent also

[1:42:30] Voice 10: So we'll go with the

[1:42:31] Voice 11: recommended.

[1:42:33] Voice 11: OK.

[1:42:34] Voice 11: And then, so then I provided some options

[1:42:41] Voice 11: for some site-specific.

[1:42:47] Voice 11: So this would be allowing one unit, these ones.

[1:42:50] Voice 11: And so I went through and identified some areas

[1:42:54] Voice 11: that you may want to consider more than one unit

[1:42:57] Voice 11: and just provided um an option for discussion so that just to start the discussion and so that

[1:43:04] Voice 11: includes the the health emergency services area um and again like the number there is just for

[1:43:12] Voice 11: you know the area better you know what would be appropriate so um this would be something that

[1:43:18] Voice 11: would go into the draft bylaw and it would be sent directly to each one of these um property

[1:43:24] Voice 11: any owners um for discuss for this further discussion so um yeah so really the question

[1:43:29] Voice 11: is what what do you want to what would you want to put forward for them to to consider well to me

[1:43:36] Trustee Maude: the numbers make sense as is and you know as you say that be circulated so there might be comments

[1:43:42] Trustee Maude: coming back but also five years down the road somebody wants to put in for a variance but

[1:43:45] Trustee Maude: of her variance yeah it's

[1:43:48] Voice 11: not very density kept

[1:43:50] Trustee Maude: very density yeah

[1:43:51] Voice 11: you have to reason but i still

[1:43:55] Trustee Maude: i look at these numbers today i don't i don't have any disagreement with the numbers so

[1:43:59] Voice 10: not just have a question but a lot of jason went over from school building a lot

[1:44:04] Voice 10: so are we talking because there is a residential lot yeah so

[1:44:07] Voice 11: there's a we should definitely yeah

[1:44:09] Voice 11: there's two so i when i look at the the map right there's the there's the school and then there's one

[1:44:14] Voice 11: right next to the school and there's one next to it and i believe on the other side of the road

[1:44:18] Voice 11: they all belong to the school

[1:44:21] Voice 10: okay but there's also one to the west side of the school deacon

[1:44:25] Voice 10: road which is currently residential oh and that

[1:44:28] Voice 10: should definitely be part of this okay i mean we

[1:44:31] Voice 10: have to notify the property owner at some point but it sits next to the highway yard so it's kind

[1:44:37] Voice 10: of it's owned by

[1:44:39] Voice 11: the school district no

[1:44:39] Trustee Maude: no it's the school

[1:44:41] Trustee Maude: in the highway and

[1:44:43] Voice 11: what is it currently

[1:44:43] Voice 11: it's just

[1:44:44] Voice 11: residential and you just want more units yeah because if the day should ever come

[1:44:49] Voice 11: you know that community could purchase that property that would be so so let me just get

[1:44:56] Voice 11: get clear in my head where it is so it's um to the west of

[1:44:59] Voice 10: deacon road so deacon road goes down

[1:45:02] Voice 10: to where the teacher is yeah that

[1:45:03] Voice 10: road so it's to the west so directly runs alongside the highway

[1:45:07] Voice 10: Okay, so it's long and narrow, it might be an acre.

[1:45:12] Voice 11: So what I'm going to do is I'm going to, when I get back, I'll look on my map and I'll just

[1:45:17] Voice 11: send a message to you to make sure that I've got the right log.

[1:45:20] Voice 10: I do think

[1:45:21] Voice 10: that we should recognize now that if a miracle should ever happen, that would

[1:45:26] Voice 10: be a great place to add some density.

[1:45:29] Trustee Maude: No, similarly though, on that thing, the highway shard.

[1:45:33] Voice 10: Well, but we need that industrial land.

[1:45:35] Voice 10: we can't give it

[1:45:36] Voice 10: up to residential. No

[1:45:37] Trustee Maude: but the highway's already moved a residential unit in there.

[1:45:40] Voice 10: Oh yeah it is.

[1:45:42] Voice 10: Yeah I'm not sure what the zoning says. If it's industrial there I think they're

[1:45:45] Voice 10: allowed to have a residential.

[1:45:47] Voice 11: I would imagine it's industrial. You can look into that. Yeah.

[1:45:50] Trustee Maude: Yeah

[1:45:50] Voice 11: we have to make sure. So that's the

[1:45:51] Voice 11: land that's on, and I'll check it out, so that's the

[1:45:54] Voice 11: land that's owned by highways? Yeah.

[1:45:55] Trustee Maude: It's actually owned by main

[1:45:57] Voice 9: roads but it's a highway. There's

[1:46:00] Trustee Maude: two lots and

[1:46:01] Voice 9: those residents are really in there well

[1:46:03] Voice 10: there's they hold it okay

[1:46:04] Voice 9: for staff right yes

[1:46:07] Voice 9: yeah well

[1:46:08] Voice 11: i

[1:46:09] Voice 10: can have a look at that and see what it's currently is

[1:46:10] Voice 10: owned every motor homes okay

[1:46:12] Voice 13: yeah

[1:46:13] Voice 10: but yeah but no we yeah we don't want to give it up okay

[1:46:17] Voice 11: so we'll go with our leaves

[1:46:20] Voice 11: and then i'll have a look at those two other problems you just mentioned to me um and i think

[1:46:27] Voice 11: so I think the Deakin road would probably fit under just allowing additional units okay generally

[1:46:35] Voice 11: so I'll have one however yeah oh well that's that falls under proactively resulting there we go

[1:46:42] Voice 11: actually multiple dwellings that's great which is why I said remove but I won't now is there

[1:46:47] Voice 11: anything else you anywhere else you'd like me to look at for well

[1:46:50] Voice 10: those are the kind of obvious

[1:46:52] Voice 10: ones because the property like on the other side of the school land you know starts to go

[1:46:58] Voice 10: down it's kind of an awkward piece of property beside the current school lot wouldn't be easy

[1:47:03] Voice 10: to develop more housing there right and as you go along further then the road transportation

[1:47:09] Voice 10: networks don't agree on for you know websites okay well if anything

[1:47:13] Voice 11: else comes up let me

[1:47:15] Voice 11: let me know um um there's also uh yeah okay let me know um i mean that's a tricky one right

[1:47:26] Voice 11: well there's another there's another opportunity in here to look at um at um rezoning to allow

[1:47:33] Voice 11: uh subdivision so we well anyways it's similar but different but we'll have that discussion

[1:47:39] Voice 11: when we get there um okay we get on this one okay okay so the next goal increase alternative

[1:47:45] Voice 11: housing options so um action number number 12 permit rezoning for modular

[1:47:52] Voice 11: modular home buildings and multi-unit housing um so in this case um this

[1:48:02] Voice 12: is um i'm just sorry

[1:48:12] Voice 11: do we

[1:48:14] Voice 9: need a break if you need to give your brain a rest or get some sugar let's

[1:48:20] Voice 11: take a break

[1:48:21] Voice 11: yeah so this is about okay so okay yeah here we go yeah this is what so this is um there

[1:48:28] Voice 11: When I was thinking about this, and this was also like, also thinking about this with Gabriel and for Dunman, that there is an opportunity to recognize different forms of housing that isn't currently recognized.

[1:48:45] Voice 11: And so we also need to look at some, again, these definitions are put here so that we know what we're talking about when we go through the rest of this, and this will be included in the land use bylaw.

[1:48:58] Voice 11: So there's different types of housing.

[1:49:01] Voice 11: This moderate income housing, there's affordable housing,

[1:49:07] Voice 11: which the common definition is housing that doesn't exceed 30%

[1:49:13] Voice 11: of a household's gross income, and that generally needs to have

[1:49:16] Voice 11: a housing agreement to be secured at that rate.

[1:49:19] Voice 11: Then there's this other housing, which is a lot of what I think

[1:49:22] Voice 11: we talk about, which is housing that is accessible to a family

[1:49:26] Voice 11: that's you know can't afford a million dollar property um so i i'm using the term moderate

[1:49:32] Voice 11: income housing that could change depending on whether you're comfortable with that um

[1:49:38] Voice 11: special needs

[1:49:39] Voice 9: sorry we're not just attainable housing well

[1:49:41] Voice 11: gabriela i had attainable housing

[1:49:46] Voice 11: but then uh as as the term and that could be like that could be the word that we use here

[1:49:52] Voice 11: but um the folks that were talking the gabriela focus group is what changed my mind on attainable

[1:49:58] Voice 11: housing oh why um they didn't feel like the definition was like they felt like it wasn't

[1:50:06] Voice 11: easy to understand oh yeah because so i don't know and we could and so we could use it you know

[1:50:12] Voice 11: this is why i say like the word we use may shift and change um uh i mean is it that there's

[1:50:19] Voice 11: attainable i mean we don't have to get into landing on the definition now but i could put

[1:50:25] Voice 11: attainable slash moderate income housing for the time being so that when we eventually get there

[1:50:30] Voice 9: we can yeah

[1:50:32] Voice 9: that's that is tricky okay interesting feedback yeah yeah

[1:50:35] Voice 11: um okay so um i reckon i so

[1:50:40] Voice 11: because there's a few different things that are being contemplated all at once what i'm recommending

[1:50:46] Voice 11: is a new section in the OCO that focuses on this type of housing,

[1:50:54] Voice 11: so the moderate income, affordable, special needs housing,

[1:50:58] Voice 11: and that addresses sort of a number of things related to sort of increasing support,

[1:51:09] Voice 11: not just for like this sort of modular home village idea, but a few other things.

[1:51:17] Voice 11: So when you look at the bullets, the policies, the draft policies that have been identified here, they speak to, I mean, I can go through each one here, but they speak to like these sort of supporting a variety of different types of housing, right?

[1:51:35] Voice 11: Right. So the key here being that if you don't have it, if you have these things in your OCP, then you can move forward.

[1:51:46] Voice 11: If somebody comes in with a rezoning, they don't necessarily. So the way that the province now, they could move forward even without public hearing.

[1:51:56] Voice 11: I mean, it's up to you. Right. If you

[1:51:58] Voice 11: don't need a change in the OCP and if they conform with the OCP, then the process is very smooth.

[1:52:03] Voice 11: so it

[1:52:03] Voice 11: allows for a non-profit organization for example to be able to move much faster

[1:52:09] Voice 11: so we can go through each one of these so the first one here local trust committee may consider

[1:52:15] Voice 11: applications to rezone property in any land use designation in which residential is permitted

[1:52:22] Voice 11: as a principal use to permit boarding homes for staff who needs residents and seniors house

[1:52:26] Voice 11: and why

[1:52:28] Voice 9: is low income or moderate income not a consideration uh

[1:52:33] Voice 11: well this is uh i mean you

[1:52:34] Voice 11: could add those this is a boarding this is boarding homes support like where you have

[1:52:39] Voice 11: sort of support services yeah

[1:52:41] Voice 9: but

[1:52:43] Voice 11: boarding homes are also

[1:52:44] Voice 9: if people i mean boarding houses used to

[1:52:47] Voice 9: be quite common for work workforce housing as well like we might be in a position again where

[1:52:53] Voice 9: people are building secondary suites but they're cutting up the people big single family dwelling

[1:52:59] Voice 10: right now

[1:53:01] Voice 12: if i have

[1:53:02] Voice 10: a five bedroom house i can do that anyway so this is more specific

[1:53:05] Voice 10: okay to a

[1:53:06] Voice 10: group coming and saying i'm going to buy and turn it into more like more of a well

[1:53:11] Voice 10: it's not really commercial use when i said

[1:53:13] Voice 10: landlord could rent

[1:53:14] Voice 11: out each bedroom yeah so

[1:53:17] Voice 11: yeah i mean the intention here is that sort of like a supportive one but certainly

[1:53:20] Voice 9: you can add

[1:53:24] Voice 9: Okay,

[1:53:25] Voice 11: the next one, the local trust committee may consider applications to rezone property

[1:53:31] Voice 11: in any land use designation in which residential is a permitted principal use to permit multi-unit

[1:53:36] Voice 11: dwelling developments and clustered small unit affordable and moderate income housing

[1:53:42] Voice 11: in the form of affordable, moderate income or special needs housing.

[1:53:46] Voice 11: it clustered uh small unit housing can include but it's not restricted to modular homes tiny

[1:53:52] Voice 11: homes on wheels mobile homes and alternative volume so this is opening up the the opportunity

[1:53:57] Voice 11: for for example uh you know a non-profit organization or or whomever to come in and

[1:54:03] Voice 11: rezone a property to allow like a you know we talk about these um um trailer parks or what

[1:54:12] Voice 11: have you but it's not necessarily that right it

[1:54:14] Voice 8: could be any

[1:54:14] Voice 11: form of like small units coming

[1:54:16] Voice 11: together uh the next one local trust committee may consider applications from not-for-profit

[1:54:23] Voice 11: organizations government agencies or first nations to rezone property in land use designations where

[1:54:29] Voice 11: residential is not a permitted principal use for the purposes of creating affordable housing so

[1:54:34] Voice 11: So that's where you're only allowing that opportunity for the rezoning of a particular area where residential isn't permitted for those, you know, essentially for affordable housing.

[1:54:51] Voice 11: And again, it would have to go through a rezoning process.

[1:54:54] Voice 11: So the decision would be up to the local trust committee ultimately whether you'd want to support it.

[1:55:00] Voice 11: but it just means that there wouldn't need to be an OCP amendment.

[1:55:11] Voice 11: Yeah.

[1:55:12] Voice 3: That's all good.

[1:55:13] Trustee Maude: But with those designations, do we have any jurisdiction?

[1:55:20] Trustee Maude: Like if the provincial government or the federal government

[1:55:23] Trustee Maude: or First Nation was trying to do something with their property?

[1:55:27] Voice 11: No.

[1:55:28] Voice 11: No, with their own property.

[1:55:29] Voice 11: So, for example, if they wanted to rezone a commercial property.

[1:55:35] Trustee Maude: Yeah, but it was owned by the province.

[1:55:38] Voice 11: Yeah, I mean, it's different.

[1:55:40] Voice 11: That's different.

[1:55:40] Voice 11: This is not what this is talking about.

[1:55:42] Voice 11: This is like if they wanted, yeah, I mean, if they wanted, well,

[1:55:45] Voice 11: if they wanted to, if the province wanted to put housing on their park.

[1:55:49] Voice 11: Yeah.

[1:55:50] Voice 11: Right.

[1:55:51] Voice 11: I mean, they still have to be within zoning.

[1:55:53] Trustee Maude: No, because there's senior government.

[1:55:56] Trustee Maude: I

[1:55:56] Voice 11: think the province would still need it. The

[1:56:01] Voice 11: federal wouldn't need to.

[1:56:05] Trustee Maude: But

[1:56:05] Voice 11: it's a silly question.

[1:56:07] Trustee Maude: I mean,

[1:56:09] Voice 11: this is just opening it up for, you know, like, for example, that industrial area where you're saying it's not being used for industrial.

[1:56:16] Voice 11: Well, you know, if a not-for-profit buys it out, it provides that opportunity without having to go through an OCP.

[1:56:23] Voice 11: which you know can add months and months because oh this is great um okay the local trust committee

[1:56:34] Voice 11: may consider reducing minimum and average parcel size for rezoning applications from not

[1:56:39] Voice 11: not-for-profit organizations uh government agencies and and uh first nations intending

[1:56:45] Voice 11: to provide affordable housing so that's where um uh you know you consider yeah it's pretty

[1:56:52] Voice 11: straightforward only for those those those specific groups yeah groups um uh yeah to so

[1:57:03] Voice 11: to ensure affordable and moderate income housing uh income rental or home ownership housing a

[1:57:10] Voice 11: housing agreement must be registered on title so so that really has to do with like for example

[1:57:17] Voice 11: For example, if you get these clustered homes, villages, for example, you don't want those

[1:57:26] Voice 11: to turn into luxury vacation homes, you

[1:57:32] Voice 11: know, cute, little, right?

[1:57:36] Voice 11: So that's where...

[1:57:37] Voice 11: $400 a night.

[1:57:39] Voice 11: Exactly.

[1:57:40] Voice 9: exactly

[1:57:40] Voice 11: um or yeah so okay next one multi-dwelling housing and clustered small

[1:57:47] Voice 11: unit housing must be located near services amenities biking and walking trails so that

[1:57:53] Voice 11: that works on main island i think i mean must you know again it's up to you i mean there are

[1:57:58] Voice 11: other islands where they say well actually that doesn't work for us right in fact there's other

[1:58:03] Voice 11: better places yeah okay

[1:58:05] Voice 3: so

[1:58:06] Voice 11: you're good with that okay so and

[1:58:09] Voice 11: then this is already in

[1:58:10] Voice 11: your bios but it's just repeated here because it's when it's it's under the amenity zoning

[1:58:15] Voice 11: uh provisions uh that multi-unit housing developments should not exceed 10 units

[1:58:22] Voice 11: so let's just emphasize with that what you got okay so

[1:58:26] Voice 11: you're all good with those okay um

[1:58:29] Voice 11: um and and then uh i'd make a recommendation related to the many zoning guidelines um to add

[1:58:37] Voice 11: um moderate income which might be attainable most

[1:58:42] Voice 4: and

[1:58:43] Voice 11: non-market rental to um to what can

[1:58:46] Voice 11: oh what falls under that amenity zoning so if you remember um the amenity zoning guidelines is is

[1:58:52] is

[1:58:52] Voice 11: what supported the rezoning of the housing society.

[1:58:58] Voice 11: So that's where you can get additional density

[1:59:00] Voice 11: if you provide a community amenity.

[1:59:06] Voice 11: In that case, it was housing or affordable housing.

[1:59:11] Voice 11: So this is opening it up a little bit

[1:59:13] Voice 11: for other types of housing.

[1:59:17] Voice 11: Okay.

[1:59:19] Voice 11: So developing TUP guidelines for tiny homes.

[1:59:22] Voice 11: I think we've discussed this in the past that um because of the and then we had this discussion

[1:59:28] Voice 11: when we were looking at the flex housing um until we will be all too familiar about um

[1:59:36] Voice 11: the details of this where um we can't uh if you can't get a you can't if you can't get any um

[1:59:46] Voice 11: we can't get a building permit yet yet

[1:59:48] Voice 3: yet and

[1:59:50] Voice 11: they don't they don't fall under

[1:59:53] Voice 11: as a

[1:59:54] Voice 9: duality of the BC building code yet yeah

[1:59:56] Voice 11: that's right and they don't fall under Canadian

[2:00:00] Voice 11: within case uh standards associations um the

[2:00:03] Voice 9: only thing i would add or change here is that you said

[2:00:06] Voice 9: yeah uh csa z240 z240 rb those are the same oh are they yeah it's the mv

[2:00:15] Voice 9: uh manufactured home a277 okay that is so that is a modular home manufactured home standard

[2:00:22] Voice 9: and so some manufacturers are building to that standard and it's actually most manufactured

[2:00:28] Voice 9: homes are already allowed in ocp so that's kind of the gray area where of yeah tiny home on wheels

[2:00:36] Voice 9: kind of can be considered a dwelling but i don't know if the tiny homes on wheels is the sorry go

[2:00:42] Voice 9: ahead well i just want to say right now the way it is

[2:00:44] Voice 10: here right now if i buy a loss i can bring in

[2:00:47] Voice 10: an rb and i'm in

[2:00:49] Voice 10: it yeah or i can bring in a tiny home in a minute and i don't really want to change

[2:00:53] Voice 10: that because that has been accepted norm yeah

[2:00:56] Voice 8: so for us yeah

[2:00:57] Voice 10: yeah um for individual lots so

[2:01:00] Voice 10: am i missing well this is so

[2:01:04] Voice 11: this is the um you've said rvs and um but you and i think you've said

[2:01:11] Voice 11: that you changed the definition uh because we we had we we we included a definition of tiny

[2:01:22] Voice 11: on the wheels. I think

[2:01:25] Voice 9: the challenge is if they're built to a different standard, like say it's

[2:01:30] Voice 9: BC building code amended this way and it's... I just know people

[2:01:35] Voice 10: are happily living in the

[2:01:36] Voice 10: pond lane and I don't know any other type of understand that they're really not allowed.

[2:01:41] Voice 10: Happily living but they're... Okay yeah,

[2:01:43] Voice 11: so they would have to... So we have a recreational vehicle

[2:01:49] Voice 11: includes a tiny on the wheels that made that meets the canadian standard association so we

[2:01:55] Voice 11: are going to buy vehicles so for

[2:01:56] Voice 11: those that don't meet those standards so you have you have allowed

[2:02:00] Voice 11: the ones that meet those standards but not the ones that don't meet those standards so that's

[2:02:06] Voice 11: what this um but some of

[2:02:07] Voice 11: you would have to get a gup to have one that doesn't meet the standards

[2:02:12] Voice 11: and

[2:02:12] Voice 9: i would i okay so a couple of recommendations i recommend that that actually gets amended to

[2:02:17] Voice 9: including the manufactured home standards a277 the

[2:02:21] Voice 9: definition yeah okay that should

[2:02:23] Voice 9: because those are considered well one is a vehicle standard and one is a manufactured home

[2:02:29] Voice 9: but the um what may come into play if the crd wants to play along and do um the second phase

[2:02:38] Voice 9: of this tiny home regulatory approvals project is is something like a a certification

[2:02:45] Voice 9: certification um for diy builders and that's where we're getting into okay it's not built to

[2:02:51] Voice 9: the manufactured um standard it's not built in a manufacturer's yard it's a home builder who used

[2:02:58] Voice 9: to be able to build to the bc building code but there's no building code for tiny homes right but

[2:03:03] Voice 9: if there's an inspection certification service that says this qualifies as a tiny home on wheels

[2:03:08] Voice 9: that's built to x standard something that the crd might agree to yeah it actually could be issued a

[2:03:13] Voice 9: building permit but

[2:03:14] Voice 11: so so

[2:03:16] Voice 11: i think i'm going to put for my action um and to connect with

[2:03:21] Voice 11: chair elliot on that definition so you get it right make

[2:03:25] Voice 11: sure it's all yeah um

[2:03:26] Voice 11: okay okay because

[2:03:27] Trustee Maude: it's complicated because because it's just the wheels i make it so complicated

[2:03:32] Trustee Maude: we had that one

[2:03:34] Trustee Maude: on wooddale davis smart who actually got a building permit yeah and

[2:03:38] Trustee Maude: got it got it built

[2:03:40] Voice 3: but

[2:03:41] Trustee Maude: the silly part was is that when he sold it and it got moved across the island they had to

[2:03:45] Trustee Maude: get a new building permit and get it re-inspected again yeah so

[2:03:49] Voice 10: yeah so

[2:03:51] Voice 11: so the advantage of the

[2:03:54] Voice 11: temporary use permit for the one wheels is that it provides um staff and trustees an opportunity

[2:04:00] Voice 11: to identify what what kind of um circumstances we won't want these to be allowed to okay to um

[2:04:08] Voice 11: to exist in and um you know it'll it'll include like hookups to water right like

[2:04:14] Voice 3: we need to have

[2:04:15] Voice 3: those water

[2:04:15] Voice 11: forbidden yeah uh

[2:04:17] Voice 11: yeah uh sewer yeah and such so there's a few things that um

[2:04:23] Voice 11: that the ocp can identify need to be considered and then um then the other considerations can be

[2:04:29] Voice 11: site specific so

[2:04:31] Voice 9: a question here about sewage disposal facilities specifically um

[2:04:36] Voice 9: um the language that i've been sort of trending towards is wastewater disposal system okay yeah

[2:04:45] Voice 9: because that and this is from a wastewater

[2:04:48] Voice 11: expert it's just

[2:04:49] Voice 9: more inclusive yeah

[2:04:50] Voice 9: whatever is totally

[2:04:52] Voice 11: waste wastewater

[2:04:55] Voice 9: disposal disposal but

[2:04:58] Voice 11: does that and

[2:05:00] Voice 9: it covers but what about solid waste

[2:05:02] Voice 9: uh it's well it's it's household waste water sewage right so you

[2:05:10] Voice 11: mean household waste as in

[2:05:13] Voice 9: solid garbage no as in what goes into the toilet no that's all covered under the waste water yeah

[2:05:20] Voice 9: okay it's um on-site is kind of on-site waste water disposal systems okay i asked for something

[2:05:29] Voice 9: that is inclusive of septic composting toilets that would

[2:05:34] Voice 9: be great waste and gray water management

[2:05:35] Voice 9: and so that if you could forward me the definition

[2:05:38] Voice 7: uh or we

[2:05:40] Voice 11: can talk about it if that's a sideways

[2:05:41] Voice 11: disposal system yeah i want to use whatever cool okay um okay yeah so are you supportive of this

[2:05:52] Voice 11: directions permits yeah yeah okay now the other thing that came up and this was in conversation

[2:05:58] Voice 11: with with regional planning manager Kijima is that if we are requiring TUPs for tiny home

[2:06:07] Voice 11: on wheels should we also be requiring TUPs for recreational vehicles that are not pre-existing

[2:06:14] Voice 11: which is an interesting question right because do we do we want to have oversight over the new

[2:06:21] Voice 11: ones that come so

[2:06:24] Voice 10: initially i'm like oh that's not fair but the the realistic side of me is like

[2:06:30] Voice 10: it's almost like derelict boats so for tup will help us monitor and keep track of these trailers

[2:06:36] Voice 10: that come in and then deteriorate so i would say yes you have

[2:06:42] Voice 10: to put because i think when we see

[2:06:44] Voice 10: a lot more of them we already have some pretty yucky ones i mean some

[2:06:47] Voice 10: really nice ones too

[2:06:49] Voice 9: and they

[2:06:50] Voice 9: don't yeah well

[2:06:51] Trustee Maude: so good point

[2:06:52] Voice 10: yeah yeah

[2:06:54] Trustee Maude: my only concern is cost is that if we could make

[2:06:58] Trustee Maude: that to the application fee

[2:06:59] Trustee Maude: a very very reasonable

[2:07:02] Voice 11: fee at that yeah okay so as a second so you're

[2:07:04] Voice 11: going to say yes and as a second step you're going to say staff to affordability to come back with

[2:07:14] Voice 11: reduced for reduced application because

[2:07:17] Trustee Maude: my assumption is for something I'd say of an

[2:07:19] Trustee Maude: RV coming on the the amount of processing effort should be pretty low well that too

[2:07:27] Voice 10: so

[2:07:28] Trustee Maude: so so I'm just I'm trying to justify a low fee like say if it was a $500 fee or something

[2:07:32] Trustee Maude: I think that's really really makes people comfortable but it's a $3,000 fee you know

[2:07:37] Trustee Maude: know that becomes a barrier so

[2:07:39] Voice 11: would you like that um option for reduced application to apply

[2:07:43] Voice 11: to rvs and and tiny home

[2:07:45] Voice 10: i think so okay um and then certainly should tie into that so what if

[2:07:50] Voice 10: i've got a lot and i've just brought a trailer in for the year while i'm building the lot

[2:07:55] Voice 10: could would that be could that be a different process i mean realistically if i can build a

[2:08:01] Voice 10: I think

[2:08:02] Voice 11: we already, so yes, so there are, I mean, yes, so you want to allow, because that's already allowed by some LTCs, so that's a really good consideration.

[2:08:16] Voice 11: Yeah, so I'll say to staff to consider actually mid for short-term.

[2:08:22] Trustee Maude: Because literally when it comes to setting a use permit.

[2:08:25] Voice 11: Short-term use of RFV while with open building permit.

[2:08:31] Voice 11: Right. Yeah.

[2:08:33] Voice 11: That

[2:08:34] Trustee Maude: makes great sense.

[2:08:38] Voice 12: Okay.

[2:08:41] Voice 11: Okay, to move on.

[2:08:44] Voice 11: Okay, so pre-zoning for manufactured tiny home, tiny home park, etc.

[2:08:48] Voice 11: etc um there was no we i think that was never really i can say there was never a lot of

[2:08:55] Voice 11: conversation around that so this is why i'm asking if there is an area that you have in mind uh this

[2:09:02] Voice 11: would be the time to kind of identify if not we can remove it or i can keep it in for your

[2:09:08] Voice 11: contemplation

[2:09:09] Voice 13: there

[2:09:11] Voice 10: is a spot that i've always thought is privately owned it's on camel bay road

[2:09:16] Voice 10: and I've always thought so do you want

[2:09:19] Voice 11: can you send me the address and then I'll add that to

[2:09:21] Voice 11: our map okay it's flat it's been gutted no trees okay so um so I'll say add so to the so I'll

[2:09:31] Voice 11: bring back the flex housing zone plus some other things that you identify for other things so add

[2:09:36] Voice 11: Add to map.

[2:09:37] Voice 11: OK.

[2:09:39] Voice 11: Option from SDDOT.

[2:09:43] Voice 11: Because

[2:09:43] Trustee Maude: there's also the lots in Felix Jack.

[2:09:47] Trustee Maude: Those are seven acre lots.

[2:09:49] Voice 11: So can

[2:09:49] Voice 8: you send me

[2:09:50] Voice 11: the address of the ones you left?

[2:09:56] Voice 11: Well, that one can be affected.

[2:09:58] Voice 11: Well, it certainly has to be flat.

[2:09:59] Voice 11: It can be terraced.

[2:10:00] Voice 11: I

[2:10:01] Voice 10: know, but the land is always flat.

[2:10:02] Voice 10: There's a lot less land.

[2:10:05] Voice 11: I'm hoping that our note takers are taking note of these too.

[2:10:07] Voice 11: Staff to.

[2:10:09] Voice 11: Staff to.

[2:10:11] Voice 10: Staff to.

[2:10:12] Voice 10: This one is already a settlement residence, so it has high density already.

[2:10:16] Voice 10: Oh.

[2:10:17] Voice 10: So I'm going to say staff

[2:10:19] Voice 11: to explore options to be provided by trustees.

[2:10:24] Voice 11: Okay.

[2:10:25] Voice 11: Yeah.

[2:10:26] Voice 11: Okay.

[2:10:32] Voice 11: Okay.

[2:10:33] Trustee Maude: You're in the office Wednesday.

[2:10:35] Voice 11: I am in the office on Wednesday.

[2:10:37] Trustee Maude: I will.

[2:10:38] Trustee Maude: Can we look

[2:10:39] Trustee Maude: at a map again?

[2:10:39] Voice 11: Let's go back to the two together.

[2:10:41] Voice 11: Is our notetaker taking me down?

[2:10:45] Voice 11: Because I'm thinking all of these things we could add to our resolution if we want them to be.

[2:10:51] Voice 11: Okay.

[2:10:53] Voice 9: Catherine, can we check in with you?

[2:10:56] Voice 7: Hello.

[2:10:57] Voice 7: Hello.

[2:10:59] Voice 7: I'm taking notes.

[2:11:01] Voice 7: I have the staff report in front of me, so I've highlighted things.

[2:11:05] Voice 3: And

[2:11:06] Voice 7: I'm also taking notes.

[2:11:07] Voice 7: um i was going to write up in the minutes for each section that you're going to i was going

[2:11:14] Voice 7: to point out the salient points in the minutes follow

[2:11:18] Voice 8: up okay perfect everything

[2:11:19] Voice 7: that you've

[2:11:20] Voice 7: agreed on and and there's certain points where there was problems that i i will put into the

[2:11:26] Voice 7: minutes as well or that was my plan yeah okay that

[2:11:29] Voice 11: sounds perfect so can you

[2:11:31] Voice 9: can you send

[2:11:31] Voice 9: upon her child at the salient point.

[2:11:34] Voice 11: Well, I think

[2:11:35] Voice 11: what we can do is

[2:11:37] Voice 11: when we

[2:11:39] Voice 11: the resolution can just say

[2:11:42] Voice 11: with the amendment

[2:11:43] Voice 11: as discussed.

[2:11:46] Voice 11: Just knowing that Catherine's taking

[2:11:47] Voice 11: a really, I'm taking very thorough notes

[2:11:49] Voice 11: as well, so I just want to make sure that we've got it

[2:11:51] Voice 11: down in the minute so that it's

[2:11:54] Voice 11: written down formally.

[2:11:56] Voice 11: But

[2:11:56] Trustee Maude: it's easier to structure the motion

[2:11:58] Trustee Maude: just as discussed.

[2:12:00] Voice 11: It

[2:12:00] Trustee Maude: makes it a lot easier.

[2:12:01] Voice 11: want us to go through each one but yeah i just wanted to make sure that there will be the minutes

[2:12:04] Voice 11: okay great okay so um oh yeah so this is increasing building height to increase residential potential

[2:12:10] Voice 11: and commercial and other suitable areas so that is just a dvp application so better to just keep

[2:12:17] Voice 11: it as such unless you have specific areas you think we should be proactively allowing higher

[2:12:27] Trustee Maude: our heights are very very very minimal

[2:12:32] Voice 3: very low yeah

[2:12:34] Trustee Maude: well because it gets difficult because they

[2:12:38] Trustee Maude: you go low low low and then you go to something agricultural and it goes way way way high but

[2:12:44] Voice 10: agriculture is usually on lower properties where we have a lot of very small ones so okay so it's

[2:12:49] Voice 10: a little bit

[2:12:50] Voice 11: something you want to consider at this time when you want to sort of go through

[2:12:53] Voice 11: like if it becomes an issue they can go through a development permit yeah

[2:12:57] Voice 11: application and then at that point

[2:13:00] Voice 11: that may be an opportunity to change the by-law

[2:13:01] Voice 11: I just

[2:13:04] Trustee Maude: said it's just one of those

[2:13:06] Trustee Maude: things I hate putting costs

[2:13:08] Trustee Maude: on people

[2:13:09] Voice 10: in

[2:13:10] Trustee Maude: these variants it's a

[2:13:11] Trustee Maude: good cost to watch

[2:13:12] Trustee Maude: you

[2:13:12] Voice 10: can build a chicken

[2:13:14] Voice 10: house

[2:13:14] Voice 10: you can afford a saw

[2:13:19] Trustee Maude: we were

[2:13:20] Trustee Maude: just going through this

[2:13:21] Trustee Maude: yeah it's like

[2:13:23] Trustee Maude: a typical application of

[2:13:26] Trustee Maude: $8,000 application

[2:13:27] Voice 3: and you

[2:13:29] Trustee Maude: know for like for say like a non-profit that's a kitchen

[2:13:33] Trustee Maude: so it's it when we add so when we say things like like dvp like bear in mind there's a lot

[2:13:43] Trustee Maude: of costs involved with that and time

[2:13:45] Voice 10: but for the non-profits most of like certainly for

[2:13:49] Voice 10: they would be rezones anyways so within rezone you could capture if there was a need to go

[2:13:55] Voice 10: multiple stories okay

[2:13:57] Voice 11: moving on to the next goal increase opportunities for non-profit housing

[2:14:04] Voice 11: so number 16 here that's what that permit non-profit housing in most ocp designations

[2:14:11] Voice 11: that was captured in our um uh in the uh the new section of the ocp that i always like

[2:14:21] Voice 11: um 17 permit rezoning for subdivision provided there is a donation of a lot for affordable

[2:14:30] Voice 11: housing so that is actually already a provision within our community zoning and again that

[2:14:35] Voice 11: provision was used for um the main island housing society

[2:14:39] Voice 9: right um

[2:14:41] Voice 11: 18

[2:14:42] Voice 9: oh when when it says ldc

[2:14:44] Voice 9: approved direction to remove you just mean from the action from

[2:14:48] Voice 11: the actual time yeah all right

[2:14:50] Voice 9: that's great yeah so concur yes

[2:14:52] Voice 11: okay okay so we're good we're good um okay so the 17 permit

[2:14:57] Voice 11: rezoning to reduce minimum parcel size to facilitate land for donation to a uh a government

[2:15:05] Voice 11: agency not-for-profit organization or first nation um so this is to help uh encourage donation of

[2:15:12] Voice 11: land in suitable areas um so uh oh yeah so the option oh yeah so that is the option that i've

[2:15:24] Voice 11: just talked about that one that's one that we've already included in the other section that you

[2:15:28] Voice 11: agreed to

[2:15:29] Voice 4: um

[2:15:31] Voice 11: so this one designating suitable area to permit rezoning for subdivision in exchange

[2:15:36] Voice 11: for lots donated for affordable housing um this is where um you know looking at the map

[2:15:48] Voice 11: there's an opportunity to um to identify areas where where you know this this could be a

[2:15:58] Voice 11: potential um it's not necessarily making any changes um but it's kind of a tool uh to provide

[2:16:06] Voice 11: those that might want to rezone with that idea of whether it would make sense for them to to

[2:16:13] Voice 11: to rezone in that area. So this is where you could say, really, we don't want, we don't want to have

[2:16:22] Voice 11: any additional rezoning for subdivision, we don't want to make any more accommodations for that

[2:16:31] Voice 11: outside of, you know, areas close to the center. Or, you know, if there are any other areas that

[2:16:40] Voice 11: would consider so it's more of a um an opportunity to to sort of flag areas that that there would be

[2:16:50] Voice 11: a larger like a more comfortable you'd be more comfortable with um considering smaller lots

[2:16:58] Voice 11: for donation yeah

[2:17:00] Voice 9: i actually don't get

[2:17:01] Voice 11: the point of this but i might be missing it

[2:17:05] Voice 11: so this is about

[2:17:06] Voice 11: identifying areas uh where you would permit rezoning for subdivision in exchange

[2:17:12] Voice 11: for lots to be donated for affordable housing so again like you could say there are areas

[2:17:20] Voice 11: we we want to we will only look at we would okay

[2:17:23] Voice 9: i see the explanation explains it

[2:17:25] Voice 9: yeah better i think it's just the wording the way that it's phrased there it's yeah yeah so it's

[2:17:30] Voice 11: yeah like it's i explain it's narrowed narrowing down the options of where provision of affordable

[2:17:35] Voice 11: housing for the community money could be considered so

[2:17:39] Voice 10: we could email

[2:17:39] Voice 11: you an address if we think

[2:17:41] Voice 10: yeah

[2:17:42] Voice 11: well that would be the easiest yeah or you could say we like if you have a clear idea

[2:17:47] Voice 11: this is really what i'm getting at if you have a clear idea like if you uh you know uh say only

[2:17:53] Voice 11: within five kilometers of the center if that's what you want to do then that would be the

[2:17:59] Voice 11: consideration or if there are specific areas i mean again i don't have any specific i mean

[2:18:05] Voice 11: there's no areas that have been identified so if you do have if you want to provide some

[2:18:08] Voice 11: input on that then we can incorporate that um this other one proactively rezoning to facilitate

[2:18:16] Voice 11: subdivision results resulting in the donation of land so this is this is the question like um you

[2:18:23] Voice 11: know the um this is where properties like the montreux we talked about the montrose property

[2:18:31] Voice 3: right

[2:18:31] Voice 11: um so there hasn't been like a specific this yeah

[2:18:35] Voice 3: decision

[2:18:36] Voice 11: that you'd like to look at that

[2:18:38] Voice 11: how they uh you'd like to rezone that from uh rural to the settlement residential to allow

[2:18:45] Voice 11: it to be subdivision divided into smaller units you can make that decision if you'd like to and

[2:18:52] Voice 11: or if there are other properties um you that that you have specifically um so you so this is what

[2:19:01] Voice 11: i'm really looking for direction from you on whether there are properties you'd like me to

[2:19:05] Voice 11: look at um where you'd like well yeah that one montrose property already opened that conversation

[2:19:12] Voice 11: so you have at least

[2:19:13] Voice 10: worth seeing if you couldn't get it

[2:19:15] Voice 9: so just a question i mean it would it

[2:19:17] Voice 9: basically just saves a property owner the rezoning fees yeah if

[2:19:21] Voice 9: you proactively rezone i mean they

[2:19:23] Voice 9: don't necessarily go through

[2:19:24] Voice 11: with the subdivision but that's right they still have

[2:19:26] Voice 11: to go they still

[2:19:27] Voice 11: have to go through the subdivision to be all over the things okay and there are some properties that

[2:19:32] Voice 11: makes sense because like for example that Montrose property is like like on the opposite side of the

[2:19:38] Voice 11: road it's settlement residential and then it's got a lot of water

[2:19:41] Voice 3: it's

[2:19:42] Voice 11: in a it's in a very good

[2:19:43] Voice 11: location yeah um so it it would be one that I would like from a a suitable land perspective I

[2:19:52] Voice 11: would consider a good option um if there there may be other properties that you um that you see um

[2:20:01] Voice 11: Another option would be to ask property owners whether they'd like

[2:20:03] Voice 10: to

[2:20:04] Voice 11: be considered.

[2:20:06] Voice 11: Maybe, you know, that could be an option is like to request to have a letter sent out inviting property owners to identify whether they're interested.

[2:20:17] Voice 11: I mean, the criteria would be kind of clear, like there'd have to be some clear criteria around deciding.

[2:20:26] Voice 11: And again, I would be looking at suitability from the perspective of, you know, water and access to the connection to the proximity to amenities.

[2:20:41] Voice 11: That's

[2:20:42] Voice 9: right, because if you throw it open to the community and somebody from, they're like, hey,

[2:20:47] Voice 11: somewhere else, you know.

[2:20:48] Voice 11: it really makes sense when they're surrounded by um settlement residential and it's not kind of

[2:20:55] Voice 11: out nowhere land so um

[2:20:57] Voice 11: it could be maybe if there are people that you know i think if they

[2:21:02] Voice 11: if there's a direct um a letter to the to the ltc uh indicating interest to be considered that

[2:21:11] Voice 11: that could be a an opportunity or um or you could also direct staff to identify potential

[2:21:21] Voice 10: yeah don't have a list of people i've tried and walked to leave what get you know but the

[2:21:27] Voice 10: campbell bay property i thought that was one piece that we were hoping that the other day

[2:21:32] Voice 10: when it fell the event oh that one for to be identified as that they would donate some of

[2:21:41] Voice 10: that right

[2:21:42] Voice 11: right yeah that's the criteria but would you want to proactively rezone that for

[2:21:48] Voice 11: that would

[2:21:49] Voice 11: fall more under the um uh like suitable permitting rezoning to subdivision

[2:21:59] Voice 11: exchange for loss right yes that

[2:22:02] Voice 11: would be that the one previous that would be the number of

[2:22:06] Voice 11: big property okay

[2:22:09] Voice 13: well

[2:22:11] Voice 10: that would fit that would fit that one because we already know they have

[2:22:14] Voice 10: more gift to be than they were supposed to have so however that works

[2:22:19] Voice 11: yeah

[2:22:21] Voice 10: so that's really

[2:22:21] Voice 11: indicating that yeah that that would be a consider like that there would be support for

[2:22:26] Voice 11: for that approach i think so but not it wouldn't necessarily be proactively because you need you

[2:22:33] Voice 11: want to have that donation before you do right okay okay um so in terms of proactively rezoning

[2:22:40] Voice 11: uh would you like me to include that montrose property on the in-draft bylaws i think so

[2:22:48] Voice 11: yes david okay and then um if there are any others that come up for you maybe we just do it that way

[2:22:55] Voice 11: let me know so um trustees to inform staff of um additional properties to be to be added to action

[2:23:07] Voice 11: um what number is this uh 20 okay moving

[2:23:16] Voice 11: right along we're doing well

[2:23:19] Voice 10: we're almost there

[2:23:22] Voice 10: that's it's so cold

[2:23:26] Voice 10: are you cold okay

[2:23:28] Voice 11: and so this pre-zoning property to facilitate uh the development

[2:23:31] Voice 11: of affordable housing so this is really like i've identified specific to um the

[2:23:38] Voice 11: capital regional uh district owned um property at the end of woodland

[2:23:43] Voice 11: um that's the only opportunity but identified so far so that's that's in process yeah um

[2:23:51] Voice 11: if there's any others let me know okay okay um i've got two i'll send you

[2:24:00] Voice 11: and so this was one that was added uh in july there was some conversation about this

[2:24:08] Voice 11: identification of properties that could offer options for first nations reserve lands have

[2:24:13] Voice 11: access to water power i think that's a bit like when i started looking at it i thought this is

[2:24:17] Voice 11: kind of out of scope of our specific project but we can add it to the future projects list so that

[2:24:24] Voice 11: it doesn't get lost mm-hmm yeah yeah what

[2:24:27] Voice 9: was yeah i can't remember the impetus that

[2:24:32] Voice 9: did you bring this out well

[2:24:33] Voice 10: i think it was jenny

[2:24:34] Voice 10: well we only have that one property

[2:24:36] Voice 10: that actually neighbors all of the reserve lines so right and

[2:24:40] Voice 10: we took habitat in the

[2:24:41] Voice 10: have a look to see right yes and

[2:24:43] Voice 13: we keep mentioning

[2:24:44] Voice 10: yeah okay that's that's one okay

[2:24:50] Voice 10: well and we actually looked at that second one too that's right by the road yeah that was kind

[2:24:56] Voice 10: of

[2:24:57] Voice 11: well and that one that we did have a look at like is there anything i mean this is our

[2:25:03] Voice 11: opportunity to proactively yeah well i'll send

[2:25:06] Voice 10: you the addresses okay i already wrote it down

[2:25:09] Voice 10: okay great yep to approach more on a more formal basis so it really would be ideal

[2:25:17] Voice 10: okay

[2:25:17] Voice 11: great okay so now we move on to uh the goal of protecting and preserving ecosystems

[2:25:24] Voice 11: of fresh water which i would say that actually all of these everything falls into that but these

[2:25:29] Voice 11: are the ones that are very specific and not specific to uh the the actual where we're

[2:25:36] Voice 11: where and what we're building. So we talked about so this is using the data we have available to us

[2:25:44] Voice 11: can help us to inform things. The cisterns requiring fresh water systems for all new

[2:25:52] Voice 11: buildings. I think you were very positive about this previously. The question here is that so

[2:25:58] Voice 11: So currently, the Land Use By-law requires cisterns of 3,000 gallons for all for new secondary suites.

[2:26:08] Voice 11: The cistern size that's being adopted by other LTCs is 18 liters, which is 18,000

[2:26:19] Voice 11: liters.

[2:26:21] Voice 11: Yeah, sorry, which is nine. What's that in gallons?

[2:26:25] Voice 11: I should have put the gallons there.

[2:26:28] Voice 11: it's about 5 000 gallons i think that's what it is and so this is an interesting because in my

[2:26:33] Voice 11: own mind i can like is this the right number and i keep like going back to different data sources

[2:26:40] Voice 11: and like so the previous number that was proposed for north pender was based on an analysis it was

[2:26:47] Voice 11: a conversation with architects and builders that were building uh were building new homes and what

[2:26:55] Voice 11: what they were recommending it was it was considering the the use uh potential backup

[2:27:01] Voice 11: use over a drought period of three months and it was also considering what sizes of systems are

[2:27:09] Voice 11: currently available so that was what previously went into it so i also thought i did i also did

[2:27:15] Voice 11: some further because i i did some further digging and it does seem like 15 000 to 20 liters is the

[2:27:23] Voice 11: general range that's recommended for non-potable as backup. So I think 18 is kind of hitting it,

[2:27:34] Voice 11: but again I'm not living on an island so I defer to those that are to decide whether that is the

[2:27:40] Voice 11: right number. So the question here is, I know you want them because you've expressed support

[2:27:50] Voice 11: for this in the past the question would be uh are you good with that size and then the other

[2:27:56] Voice 11: question is do you want to do you want the step the size to be the same across the board so

[2:28:03] Voice 11: same size for um secondary um for secondary suites as well or do you want to consider smaller sizes

[2:28:12] Voice 11: for solid

[2:28:15] Voice 10: ones i'm just thinking of aesthetic so if you're a small lot that kind of just

[2:28:19] Voice 10: I don't know how many gallons, but there's no lack of water solution, but I'm thinking

[2:28:25] Voice 10: if I've been at bay and I'm building a house with a secondary suite, then just the mass

[2:28:31] Voice 10: of that.

[2:28:32] Voice 11: So I would

[2:28:32] Voice 10: say smaller for secondary suites.

[2:28:34] Voice 10: So

[2:28:35] Voice 11: do you want to stay with what you've got?

[2:28:36] Voice 10: Yeah.

[2:28:36] Voice 11: Yeah.

[2:28:37] Voice 11: Okay.

[2:28:37] Voice 11: And then do you want, do you want, do you want that to the smaller, because we're also

[2:28:43] Voice 11: thinking about flex housing, we're thinking about all the smaller ones, so do you want

[2:28:48] Voice 11: consider smaller ones for the for units under a certain size

[2:28:51] Voice 10: i think that's pretty

[2:28:53] Voice 11: simple okay so

[2:28:54] Voice 11: um and so what size i would suggest uh under a thousand yeah that's under

[2:29:03] Voice 9: a thousand sister

[2:29:04] Voice 11: square feet oh

[2:29:06] Trustee Maude: sorry like

[2:29:07] Voice 9: if

[2:29:08] Voice 11: you're going to consider the smaller size because that's

[2:29:10] Trustee Maude: that's sort of the number we already use that's about okay

[2:29:12] Voice 11: that's why i'm suggesting it yeah

[2:29:16] Trustee Maude: But just to make sure that we conform to common sense, have we reached out to manufacturers?

[2:29:24] Trustee Maude: There's only two in BC really, to make sure that the numbers that we're using sort of

[2:29:28] Trustee Maude: fall within one of their normal design tanks.

[2:29:33] Voice 11: What size do the tanks come in to?

[2:29:34] Trustee Maude: Because it would be a shame, say if we say 18,000 liters and the biggest tank they make

[2:29:38] Trustee Maude: is 17.5.

[2:29:40] Voice 11: Yeah,

[2:29:40] Trustee Maude: I'll do a

[2:29:41] Voice 11: double check on that, I'll make

[2:29:42] Trustee Maude: a note of that.

[2:29:43] Trustee Maude: to make sure that we sort of somehow conform with what because i think there's only two in bc that

[2:29:47] Trustee Maude: manufacture yeah

[2:29:48] Voice 11: and then there's some distributors on the island there's a number of them that because

[2:29:53] Voice 11: i remember when i did my first thing i called them all but um it's worth doing again because

[2:29:58] Voice 11: that was two years ago

[2:29:59] Voice 11: and things

[2:30:00] Voice 11: changed so i will um double check with um with the system providers i

[2:30:06] Trustee Maude: just know years ago with

[2:30:07] Trustee Maude: there was a problem with septic tanks yeah they put this number in like like 1240

[2:30:15] Trustee Maude: liters or gallons and the manufactured one was actually 50 gallons less so people had

[2:30:22] Trustee Maude: two septic tanks in yeah

[2:30:24] Voice 11: so yeah

[2:30:25] Voice 11: it's a really good point yeah and that's why

[2:30:27] Voice 11: Yeah, I will double check with them.

[2:30:30] Trustee Maude: As long as we conform somehow to what's the norm.

[2:30:33] Voice 11: Yeah, so that people can just go by like one or two, whatever they need.

[2:30:37] Voice 11: Yeah, that would be perfect.

[2:30:40] Voice 11: Okay, we're almost there.

[2:30:42] Voice 11: Okay, update potable water requirements for subdivisions.

[2:30:46] Voice 11: So again, this is, I've just given you the North Pender,

[2:30:49] Voice 11: what was adopted by North Pender is the most up-to-date standards

[2:30:53] Voice 11: for potable water supply that we have.

[2:30:55] Voice 11: and that it was actually built upon the original was drafted for Salt Spring they didn't adopt it

[2:31:04] Voice 11: so it's gone through like many many different iterations and refinements and it's just this

[2:31:11] Voice 11: is an opportunity to adopt that if you'd like to and you can spend some work I don't plan on going

[2:31:19] Voice 11: into detail today about it um uh so really wanted to just get your um your general feeling about um

[2:31:28] Voice 11: about um you know adopting this sort of more um refined approach uh to to stand

[2:31:38] Voice 11: or uh standards for potable water supply um we can spend more time on it uh if you'd like if

[2:31:46] Voice 11: got specific questions and issues we can explain. Well

[2:31:50] Trustee Maude: I have two things. One is from a well

[2:31:55] Trustee Maude: driller who vehemently had a conversation with me on the variable pump testing

[2:31:58] Voice 3: and

[2:31:59] Trustee Maude: explained how it

[2:32:01] Trustee Maude: destroys aquifers. So I have a concern about that based on a professional feedback.

[2:32:07] Voice 11: Okay so you're

[2:32:08] Voice 11: concerned about the

[2:32:09] Trustee Maude: pump test which which is um number six and the number 12 um it is um

[2:32:15] Trustee Maude: preserved for personal salvation alternate possible potable water supplies but not limited

[2:32:20] Trustee Maude: to shallow walls three water caching and desalination are not permitted i disagree with

[2:32:25] Trustee Maude: that because because i i think we should be making every effort to point people in another direction

[2:32:32] Trustee Maude: than drilling a well and so i i just disagree with with taking off those viable options

[2:32:43] Voice 11: trustee does well

[2:32:44] Trustee Maude: i support that okay

[2:32:45] Voice 11: and i think this so this is something that i'll have to have

[2:32:48] Voice 11: a conversation with william about because i also have to see what it is that um i think that has

[2:32:53] Voice 11: to do that might have to do with the provincial standards right so i'll try and get some

[2:32:58] Voice 11: clarification on that one for you yeah but

[2:33:00] Trustee Maude: because i i know as somebody who's just going through a

[2:33:04] Trustee Maude: subdivision process with with uh moni what what the what my pla came back as it said um provision

[2:33:13] Trustee Maude: of water is subject to the approval of the main island local trust committee right so whatever

[2:33:18] Trustee Maude: whatever it may it may now trust me said you can use water systems they were happy

[2:33:22] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement (probable): interesting so

[2:33:23] Trustee Maude: So they deferred to the local trust committee.

[2:33:25] Trustee Maude: And I asked him, I said, is there any limit on it?

[2:33:28] Trustee Maude: He said, no, whatever they're happy with, I'm happy with.

[2:33:31] Voice 9: So I can kind of explore that.

[2:33:33] Trustee Maude: In the most

[2:33:34] Voice 9: recent subdivision on Gabriela,

[2:33:35] Voice 9: like a significant subdivision, it was about two terms ago,

[2:33:44] Voice 9: they had to have groundwater proof,

[2:33:46] Voice 9: but they required rainwater systems.

[2:33:48] Voice 9: Like there was an add-on,

[2:33:50] Voice 9: but I think it would be interesting to investigate the conversation

[2:33:53] Voice 9: because I do think there was like you still had to prove groundwater somehow

[2:33:59] Voice 9: like secondary the alternative potable water couldn't be the only source but I

[2:34:07] Voice 9: was before my time so I'm not 100% sure but if it is a provincial I mean we

[2:34:11] Voice 9: should have

[2:34:12] Voice 11: yeah let me I can get some clarification yeah

[2:34:14] Voice 9: are there any other

[2:34:17] Voice 9: questions or points for clarification well I would I would suggest that shallow dug wells and

[2:34:22] Voice 9: desalination are not permitted sources. Well, why not?

[2:34:26] Voice 9: Well, why would you want a desalination?

[2:34:29] Trustee Maude: Well, that's a really good question. The environmental

[2:34:33] Voice 11: implications of desalination

[2:34:34] Voice 11: are pretty big as far as I understand. Well,

[2:34:37] Trustee Maude: it depends on the scale. If you're a city

[2:34:39] Trustee Maude: or you're a village or something, yeah. But as Brodie, I can't remember the fellow from

[2:34:47] Trustee Maude: from Galliano said if you know the the amount of reject coming out of a residential unit

[2:34:54] Trustee Maude: it's less than a gallon an hour and in the same sea which is totally diluted by the Fraser

[2:35:00] Trustee Maude: River you know that that added salt is actually a benefit.

[2:35:04] Voice 11: So I don't I'm not a science a water

[2:35:07] Voice 11: scientist so I don't I don't I don't know but I can certainly look into this. There's Brodie

[2:35:12] Trustee Maude: Keeper, something like that. He's a desalinization specialist on Galliano.

[2:35:19] Trustee Maude: You maybe talk to Trustee Maverly, so you can actually talk to a desalinization guy

[2:35:25] Trustee Maude: versus a policy person. And it's just,

[2:35:29] Voice 3: to

[2:35:30] Trustee Maude: me, it's a viable option for somebody like,

[2:35:33] Trustee Maude: economically it's stupid,

[2:35:35] Voice 3: but

[2:35:36] Trustee Maude: you know, for somebody who wants to explore it, that's taking

[2:35:40] Trustee Maude: taking non-ground water.

[2:35:42] Trustee Maude: I would rather say we don't ever drill one more well on this island.

[2:35:47] Voice 10: Yeah.

[2:35:49] Voice 10: I agree.

[2:35:50] Voice 10: I really hate the idea of drilling all these wells.

[2:35:52] Voice 10: I think we also need to find out, as the Ministry of Transport is the

[2:35:56] Voice 10: approving authority, if it's easy enough to find out, would they consider,

[2:36:01] Voice 10: and Dave says they would, so we really need that in writing,

[2:36:04] Voice 10: they'll consider alternate methods for subdivision approval of different

[2:36:09] Voice 10: water sources.

[2:36:09] Voice 10: then then we can argue about what should or shouldn't be put there because you know it really

[2:36:15] Voice 10: drilling whatever five five wells in a row for a small subdivision it's crazy doesn't make any

[2:36:22] Voice 10: sense and it's really hard to do an independent water district anymore and

[2:36:27] Trustee Maude: certainly the rules

[2:36:28] Trustee Maude: and regulations are changing so

[2:36:30] Voice 10: so if you can explore yeah i'll

[2:36:33] Voice 11: explore that i can explore

[2:36:34] Voice 11: that in further detail yeah i'm no expert so i know i would need to rely on this for sure um on that

[2:36:43] Voice 11: um uh where am i okay where are we we are audible okay yes so prohibit groundwater fed swimming pools

[2:36:53] Voice 11: yes we can do that that's easy the

[2:36:56] Voice 10: only question i have is how would we actually enforce them

[2:36:59] Voice 10: well that would be the question

[2:37:01] Voice 10: right I would be

[2:37:03] Voice 11: complaining face yeah okay

[2:37:04] Voice 11: but

[2:37:05] Trustee Maude: the reality is you know

[2:37:06] Trustee Maude: swimming pools are not a thing anymore

[2:37:09] Trustee Maude: well although

[2:37:10] Voice 11: people are still on

[2:37:12] Trustee Maude: 25 years old

[2:37:15] Voice 10: there's a

[2:37:16] Voice 10: brand new one on the point

[2:37:17] Voice 10: oh

[2:37:17] Trustee Maude: that way too

[2:37:17] Trustee Maude: they

[2:37:18] Voice 10: tend to truck the water

[2:37:20] Trustee Maude: yeah

[2:37:20] Voice 11: but there's not a lot

[2:37:23] Voice 11: with property values being what they are

[2:37:26] Voice 11: people with means there are a few

[2:37:28] Voice 11: you know yeah but they did track that weather yeah um okay so yeah a couple other things that

[2:37:35] Voice 11: were on that list review lot coverage with uh potential to establish paid service maximums and

[2:37:41] Voice 11: so yeah again this i think this actually goes beyond because you're looking beyond the housing

[2:37:46] Voice 11: footprint so and that can be added to uh future projects list yeah and then you talked about

[2:37:55] Voice 11: establishing floor area maximums um so i want to explore this a little bit more with you um

[2:38:02] Voice 11: and i i i was i'm suggesting that if you do go this route you may want to

[2:38:08] Voice 11: uh stick with your combined floor areas um you know so you could have one one one unit

[2:38:17] Voice 11: you know that is all of that or you have multiple units so that would be my suggestion

[2:38:22] Voice 11: in terms of how you address this if you want if you're going this route so um and also wanted to

[2:38:29] Voice 11: note that if you did do this we don't have um because we only went up to five hectares and

[2:38:34] Voice 11: this is also something i'll have to think through for uh if we're including larger lots in the

[2:38:39] Voice 11: flexible housing area what that um higher threshold would be

[2:38:43] Trustee Maude: because again to use my

[2:38:46] Trustee Maude: own personal example, I can do five houses and five cottages currently. So the way I'm reading this

[2:38:57] Trustee Maude: is that those 10 dwelling units could be a maximum of 4700 square feet. So that seems...

[2:39:08] Voice 11: So again, this is

[2:39:09] Voice 11: an interpretation of the bylaw, which I'll have

[2:39:11] Voice 11: to get straight in my head, like

[2:39:12] Voice 11: Like, how Robert says it, like, makes sense.

[2:39:14] Voice 11: It's like, it's lot area equivalent to lots.

[2:39:18] Voice 11: And so we may need to actually just have clarification around that lot area equivalent to lots in the bylaw.

[2:39:25] Voice 11: I'm going to flag

[2:39:26] Voice 9: that for clarification.

[2:39:30] Voice 9: I'm just noting that it's been two and a half hours and staff may need a break.

[2:39:34] Voice 9: We're almost finished.

[2:39:35] Voice 9: I realize I'm just...

[2:39:36] Voice 2: And

[2:39:37] Voice 9: you have five minutes

[2:39:38] Voice 11: from finishing.

[2:39:40] Voice 11: Well, unless we want to break out.

[2:39:42] Voice 11: Yeah let's finish and

[2:39:44] Voice 3: then we'll break it. Okay

[2:39:46] Voice 3: we promise to cooperate.

[2:39:50] Voice 3: Yeah

[2:39:53] Voice 11: so I will get some clarification on that for you because my because again like the way

[2:40:00] Voice 11: that Robert says it's lot it's lot area equivalent to lots and so I think this applies to that and

[2:40:06] Voice 11: how that would so like because we haven't considered the larger lots but although we

[2:40:10] Voice 11: have considered lots of the five yeah so they

[2:40:15] Trustee Maude: get that's because a lot of these things they fit

[2:40:17] Trustee Maude: well into the designated box like one acre which is what SR tends to be but the the the the weird

[2:40:25] Trustee Maude: ones that are outside the box like I'm only allowed to have four accessory buildings

[2:40:31] Trustee Maude: on seven and a half acres right so somehow the ratio needs to be per acre so if you have seven

[2:40:40] Trustee Maude: acres you can have x per acre type of thing to me but you know yeah

[2:40:45] Voice 11: good question other question

[2:40:47] Voice 11: here is do you

[2:40:48] Voice 11: want to consider a maximum four areas yes yes then do you want do you want that

[2:40:53] Voice 11: to be conformed with the flex housing i think so okay we'll do that for now and yeah and i'll get

[2:41:00] Voice 11: fabrication on that piece, David. Okay, so that's all of our actions.

[2:41:08] Voice 11: So I just wanted to give you a little update on the First Nations engagement piece. We've

[2:41:12] Voice 11: now sent two letters related to this project. We sent an initial letter saying we were starting

[2:41:19] Voice 11: because we had the delay of looking at the land use bylaw review. I did a follow-up in October

[2:41:28] Voice 11: October, saying we're going again. And we received a couple of, well, three nations

[2:41:34] Voice 11: responded, identifying they had no major concerns at this time. So, the next step will be to

[2:41:41] Voice 11: send the bylaws for referral.

[2:41:44] Voice 11: Okay.

[2:41:44] Voice 11: And

[2:41:45] Trustee Maude: what nations did we hear back from,

[2:41:46] Voice 11: did you recall?

[2:41:47] Voice 11: Sayat, Tawassin, and Malahat.

[2:41:50] Voice 11: Okay.

[2:41:52] Voice 11: Yeah, Malahat said that it was outside their territories, I believe, and Sayat and Tawassin

[2:41:58] Voice 11: said there yeah

[2:42:00] Voice 10: no no concerns at this time so hey i move that the mainland local trust committee

[2:42:07] Voice 10: requests staff draft bylaws to implement phase two of the housing options project as discussed

[2:42:28] Voice 9: all right um i'm sure our minute taker is on it is everything good with at your end catherine

[2:42:36] Voice 7: yep i have everything thanks thank

[2:42:39] Voice 9: you so much all

[2:42:40] Voice 7: right any further discussion well i just

[2:42:43] Voice 7: want to say

[2:42:43] Voice 10: thank you and so much work you've done your incredible package that will do main island

[2:42:50] Voice 10: for many many years to come hopefully at the end of it all some extra housing will materialize but

[2:42:57] Voice 10: i mean you've covered everything everything so

[2:43:00] Voice 9: it's and having an action plan and then moving

[2:43:04] Voice 9: through the lab with it was it provides such a concrete process that i really do think it's

[2:43:10] Voice 9: to serve many other communities so well done

[2:43:12] Voice 9: maine you're still out front

[2:43:15] Voice 11: so because you

[2:43:16] Voice 11: thought you even stalled i stalled for a period of time yeah we're still going to get you up front

[2:43:24] Voice 11: all

[2:43:24] Voice 9: right i'll call for the online comments from you sir okay all those in favor that is carried

[2:43:31] Voice 9: thank you let's take a five minute break just seeing that we've got

[2:43:36] Voice 12: people hanging on

[2:43:38] Voice 12: okay and we're back thank you

[2:51:03] Voice 9: for your patience all righty well thank you for that really really

[2:51:09] Voice 9: good discussion and glad we had some contrary reviews so we've got some next steps you know

[2:51:16] Voice 9: oh um do you want to schedule a community information meeting or is that sort of the next

[2:51:23] Voice 9: after you come back with

[2:51:25] Voice 11: it's up to you

[2:51:26] Voice 11: draft bylaws

[2:51:27] Voice 11: I would suggest I come back

[2:51:31] Voice 11: with the draft bylaws

[2:51:33] Voice 11: because it gives people something to dig their teeth into

[2:51:35] Voice 11: and the map

[2:51:35] Voice 11: and then you can decide

[2:51:38] Voice 11: because you might want to just focus on

[2:51:40] Voice 11: one specific thing or

[2:51:42] Voice 11: all of it

[2:51:43] Voice 11: but I

[2:51:44] Voice 9: think that would be

[2:51:45] Voice 11: the most productive way to do it

[2:51:46] Voice 9: and what about call outs to the community

[2:51:48] Voice 9: or asking for

[2:51:50] Voice 9: submissions if people are interested

[2:51:52] Voice 9: that would come after you draft? I think that would come after, I think that makes sense.

[2:51:55] Voice 9: Okay. Yeah.

[2:51:57] Voice 4: That was my question, so.

[2:52:00] Voice 9: Yeah. Okay. So, future

[2:52:07] Trustee Maude: projects?

[2:52:08] Voice 9: Future, active projects and future projects. Anything we could add to the future projects

[2:52:15] Voice 9: list? No?

[2:52:20] Trustee Maude: Well, we've actually got it down to nothing. I don't know how that happened.

[2:52:24] Trustee Maude: um well like at some point we need to talk about industrial oh

[2:52:30] Voice 3: really um

[2:52:31] Trustee Maude: we don't have any

[2:52:33] Voice 3: yeah and

[2:52:35] Trustee Maude: so it put it parts a little bit into the discussion of um uh that we had about

[2:52:42] Trustee Maude: the tree felling operation but i don't is it too early to think about putting it on

[2:52:49] Trustee Maude: i

[2:52:49] Voice 11: mean it's worth capturing on the list yeah yeah yeah

[2:52:54] Voice 11: okay the only thing i would say is

[2:52:56] Voice 11: I'll come back with a refined list because we identified a few things in the housing as well.

[2:53:02] Voice 11: So adding industrial zoning

[2:53:03] Voice 9: for a future project?

[2:53:06] Trustee Maude: Don't know when we'd ever get to it, but I think we need to show at least it's on our radar.

[2:53:11] Voice 9: Yeah, that's a good idea.

[2:53:15] Trustee Maude: Moving over to open applications, on page 37, the one for the park,

[2:53:23] Trustee Maude: um again um this um a change from uh rural to to park oh yeah so

[2:53:30] Trustee Maude: we'd like to sort of

[2:53:32] Trustee Maude: highlight the conservation yeah

[2:53:36] Voice 3: i don't

[2:53:38] Trustee Maude: know this is ducky yep

[2:53:40] Voice 9: it's a new report

[2:53:42] Voice 9: yeah interesting yeah

[2:53:44] Trustee Maude: we're spending money so we're

[2:53:46] Voice 9: not going to spend really anything on this

[2:53:49] Voice 9: yeah you guys didn't spend hardly any on

[2:53:51] Voice 11: your budget projects

[2:53:54] Voice 9: Well, we need to

[2:53:55] Voice 11: advertise

[2:53:56] Voice 10: that there'll be cookies because I've used them.

[2:53:59] Trustee Maude: Well, I can get a cookie today.

[2:54:01] Trustee Maude: I

[2:54:01] Voice 10: think it's just the quiet time here is unfortunate.

[2:54:04] Voice 9: Yeah.

[2:54:04] Voice 9: Well, we need to put money back in surplus.

[2:54:07] Voice 9: So thank you for contributing, Main Island Housing Project.

[2:54:11] Voice 9: So we've got our expenses, standing resolutions,

[2:54:16] Voice 9: state board,

[2:54:17] Voice 9: conservancy report,

[2:54:23] Voice 9: local trust committee webpage.

[2:54:25] Voice 9: Is there anything new?

[2:54:26] Voice 9: Update there.

[2:54:28] Voice 9: well chairs report uh are we there so we are into report section oh my goodness

[2:54:37] Voice 9: i can report the regional planning committee um we're not actually twice we had a special meeting

[2:54:45] Voice 9: late january to work through the bylaw review project and have only finally finished um

[2:54:54] Voice 9: reviewing the policy 5.1 so it's changed from like a two-page document to it's about four pages

[2:55:02] Voice 9: and that's a trust council policy that yeah it's it's kind of the core backbone document so we

[2:55:09] Voice 9: haven't gotten to the the plain language manual or public facing guide yet because that's all

[2:55:17] Voice 9: going to be amended based on getting the core policy approved at Trust Council and you and I

[2:55:24] Voice 9: are heading into pretty heavy executive committee meeting on Wednesday to settle the agenda for

[2:55:31] Voice 9: Trust Council of course the big news there is that the chair of Trust Council is stepping down

[2:55:37] Voice 9: and so there is to be an election that's the first order of business for the March Trust

[2:55:44] Voice 9: council meeting and um yeah interesting times it's a heavy responsibility and we've chair locum has

[2:55:55] Voice 9: steered the ship for two three and a half turns or two and a half five term trustee

[2:56:01] Voice 9: i think three and a half 12 14 years a while a while so big changes afoot um but we have very

[2:56:15] Voice 9: good staff so despite all the leadership shuffling there's um still a great organization

[2:56:23] Voice 9: um yeah i don't think i have too much to report there's financial planning committee meeting

[2:56:33] Voice 9: uh we did whittle the um total anticipated fee levy from i think 6.2 percent to 5.8

[2:56:43] Voice 9: um but that's of course just a recommendation to trust council so the budget will be debated in

[2:56:51] Voice 9: march and um yeah it is it's a tough it's a tough um it's a tough exercise i think one of the

[2:57:00] Voice 9: significant pieces is that our expenses the money going out is pretty much exactly matching the

[2:57:08] Voice 9: the increase in cpi um cost of consumer price index 2.6 i think it's just that the um cost

[2:57:19] Voice 9: of doing business is is much higher so uh oh and the income and revenue that we're um pulling in

[2:57:28] Voice 9: from grants and investments and interest is much lower so um yeah these are tough times

[2:57:37] Voice 9: to balance the budget and committee the whole meetings have been proceeding at a

[2:57:48] Voice 9: oh it's it is challenge it's a challenge uh we've had lots of debate i've had conversations

[2:57:54] Voice 9: on the side as to whether trustees should be editing policy to this extent and um it's it's

[2:58:01] Voice 9: a tough we're in a tough spot right now because we need to advance this draft the first reading

[2:58:07] Voice 9: and get it back out to communities so looking for all trustees come to the meetings and just

[2:58:14] Voice 9: i think 80 is good enough

[2:58:20] Voice 9: trustees local

[2:58:22] Voice 10: trustees uh anything to report um i attended the main island fellow deer

[2:58:27] Voice 10: society held an information meeting on the 13th of february we had 40 people 40 home

[2:58:35] Voice 10: um and this was to do this um this survey which will be done april the 13th it was to give people

[2:58:42] Voice 10: information about what we had been doing how the survey gets done there's 25 transits laid out on

[2:58:49] Voice 10: a map for people to sign up for scientific plan and scientific data um yesterday's meeting we

[2:58:56] Voice 10: actually had 30 which considering we've had 40 the week before we had 30 so 70 people

[2:59:03] Voice 10: in February

[2:59:04] Voice 10: so we have excellent turnout

[2:59:05] Voice 10: excellent conversations

[2:59:07] Voice 10: and we'll have one more meeting before the actual

[2:59:10] Voice 10: survey day

[2:59:11] Voice 10: and that'll be done say the 13th

[2:59:14] Voice 10: it'll be done from 7pm to 8pm

[2:59:16] Voice 10: you'll walk 850

[2:59:18] Voice 10: meters and you will make

[2:59:20] Voice 10: any deer

[2:59:21] Voice 10: that you happen to see

[2:59:23] Voice 9: so it's

[2:59:24] Voice 10: a scientific criteria

[2:59:26] Voice 10: that is used

[2:59:27] Voice 10: that the CRD is requiring

[2:59:29] Voice 10: and they have a wildlife biologist that does their deer counts um interesting anyways and so and i

[2:59:36] Voice 10: wasn't able to attend the committee the whole meeting because most of them now are in the

[2:59:40] Voice 10: afternoons which is during working time for me so um i mean i'm not really upset that i can't

[2:59:48] Voice 10: but it i know i went the ones i have attended which was quite a few have it's a very frustrating

[2:59:54] Voice 10: process to try and get through them try and get everybody focused and not

[3:00:00] Voice 10: basically wordsmith everything. So the format that we're using, obviously, is challenging.

[3:00:05] Voice 10: I'm not sure what the solution is.

[3:00:07] Voice 13: Okay.

[3:00:07] Voice 10: Yep. The dear thing is moving along quickly, basically.

[3:00:11] Voice 13: Okay. Awesome.

[3:00:13] Voice 10: That's excellent. Thank you.

[3:00:16] Trustee Maude: Well, relatively peaceful and busy for me. Lost trust in executive issues and that.

[3:00:23] Trustee Maude: The highlight to my last week was somebody deciding that Niles Trust is responsible for

[3:00:28] Trustee Maude: ducks because there was a broken part of the dock on miners bay dock and i got eight emails on that

[3:00:34] Trustee Maude: this past weekend

[3:00:35] Voice 3: um which

[3:00:37] Trustee Maude: uh i very kindly deflected off the crd director who very promptly

[3:00:42] Trustee Maude: thanked me very much for all the pictures and all the commentary um but it's one of the confusing

[3:00:49] Trustee Maude: things in the island is that people don't necessarily understand what the roles and

[3:00:54] Trustee Maude: responsibilities are and i don't trust oftentimes becomes the catch-all

[3:00:59] Voice 3: is

[3:00:59] Trustee Maude: you know is that both

[3:01:02] Trustee Maude: trustee dodds and i are highly visible in the community oh yeah and

[3:01:05] Trustee Maude: you know is that if

[3:01:07] Trustee Maude: somebody's not happy about something or somebody sees a problem we're probably the first point of

[3:01:12] Trustee Maude: contact absolutely and

[3:01:13] Trustee Maude: and you know we will send it off to the correct people but it's

[3:01:18] Trustee Maude: it was it was just interesting to me the number of people who thought that island's trust was

[3:01:22] Voice 3: running a dock

[3:01:26] Trustee Maude: it's interesting times

[3:01:28] Trustee Maude: both with the trust and with the island

[3:01:30] Trustee Maude: as things are evolving, things are changing

[3:01:33] Trustee Maude: most for the positive

[3:01:36] Trustee Maude: it's

[3:01:37] Trustee Maude: amazing the things that are going on

[3:01:38] Trustee Maude: on the island, they're all little things

[3:01:40] Trustee Maude: but it's just, they're things that make you smile

[3:01:43] Trustee Maude: oh good

[3:01:45] Trustee Maude: it's good

[3:01:46] Trustee Maude: the only difficulty with it

[3:01:48] Trustee Maude: some of the businesses are struggling, the restaurants and such

[3:01:50] Voice 3: they're

[3:01:51] Trustee Maude: just even though we have good populations here people aren't going out

[3:01:55] Trustee Maude: and sort of spreading the wealth because I think nationally yeah we're in

[3:02:02] Trustee Maude: troubled times and people are a little bit nervous about what they do and how

[3:02:06] Trustee Maude: they do it arts

[3:02:08] Voice 9: organizations are really strong

[3:02:10] Voice 9: it just

[3:02:10] Voice 9: isn't a cash flow but

[3:02:13] Trustee Maude: you know what Trustee Dodd says you know 30 40

[3:02:15] Trustee Maude: people showing up for your meeting

[3:02:16] Trustee Maude: that's a pretty positive thing yeah yeah

[3:02:19] Voice 10: you

[3:02:19] Trustee Maude: know that's

[3:02:20] Voice 10: just because they want so maybe

[3:02:22] Trustee Maude: we need to change our marketing for these meetings

[3:02:36] Trustee Maude: chairs got some ideas now from the next week

[3:02:39] Voice 3: I love it!

[3:02:43] Voice 3: I will admit

[3:02:45] Trustee Maude: that that was not my suggestion at all.

[3:02:48] Trustee Maude: That was brilliant. I

[3:02:49] Trustee Maude: think it was great.

[3:02:49] Trustee Maude: It was a suggestion of the Chair, supported by the planner. The

[3:02:53] Trustee Maude: minutes will note.

[3:02:55] Voice 9: I skipped over correspondence, but I'm assuming the two of you have seen...

[3:03:02] Voice 9: I did want it on the agenda just so that anybody who's reading the agenda is aware.

[3:03:07] Voice 9: So I'll forward it again.

[3:03:08] Voice 9: I think I sent it to the legislative clerk for

[3:03:12] Voice 9: inclusion on the agenda.

[3:03:14] Voice 9: It was a letter

[3:03:14] Voice 9: that MP Elizabeth May had written.

[3:03:16] Voice 9: Right, okay.

[3:03:18] Voice 9: So we'll just get it on the agenda for next time,

[3:03:20] Voice 9: just to keep bringing that up.

[3:03:24] Voice 9: And the letter that you had originally requested is still being drafted.

[3:03:31] Voice 9: It's waiting for chair's signature, but Dr. Crater has assured me it's drafted.

[3:03:36] Voice 9: So, yeah, the next regular business meeting is scheduled for April.

[3:03:44] Voice 9: Oh, that's right.

[3:03:47] Voice 9: So April 28 2025 here in the cultural hall on Main Island.

[3:03:53] Voice 9: Excellent.

[3:03:54] Voice 9: We have any people want no, there's no people wanting to talk to us.

[3:03:59] Voice 4: No

[3:04:00] Voice 9: close meeting, so I'll call for a German.

[3:04:02] Voice 9: Okay, thank you.

[3:04:06] Voice 9: Thanks, everyone.

Mayne Island Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
February 24, 2025 ADOPTED Page 1 of 7 
 
Mayne Island Local Trust Committee 
Minutes of Regular Meeting 
 
Date:  
Location:  
February 24, 2025 
Mayne Island Agricultural Hall 
430 Fernhill Road, Mayne Island, BC 
 
Members Present: Tobi Elliott, Chair 
 David Maude, Local Trustee 
 Jeanine Dodds, Local Trustee 
  
Staff Present: Narissa Chadwick, Island Planner 
 Warren Dingman, Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement Manager 
(electronic) 
 Lisa Millard, Meeting Administrator (electronic) 
 Katherine Vogt, Recorder 
  
Others Present: There were approximately four (4) members of the public present. 
 
1. CALL TO ORDER 
Chair Elliott called the meeting to order at 1:31 p.m. She acknowledged that the meeting 
was being held in the territory of the Coast Salish First Nations.  
2. TERRITORIAL ACKNOWLEDGEMENT 
Chair Elliott spoke on the benefits of indigenous people’s past and present stewardship of 
the land. 
3. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 
By general consent, the agenda was approved as presented. 
4. TOWN HALL AND QUESTIONS 
• A member of the public spoke on a recent bylaw enforcement determination letter 
for inappropriate land use he had received following a neighbor’s complaint of noise 
occurring at the property  
o The speaker expressed that the language in the determination letter and Land 
Use Bylaw was confusing 
o The speaker believed that all contractors on Mayne Island who rely on trucks for 
their business, including plumbers and electricians, were possibly at risk 
o The speaker noted that his business provided employment and services on the 
island and that substantial contributions had been made to various community 
groups over 4 years  
ADOPTED 

 
Mayne Island Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
February 24, 2025 ADOPTED Page 2 of 7 
o Manager Dingman offered that the property owner could contact him for 
further clarification 
o It was suggested that the property owner could apply for a Temporary 
Use Permit (TUP), which gives 90 days for the property owner to seek a 
solution 
o The property owner expressed that the Land Use Bylaws (LUB)s notion of a 
contractor’s yard assumed that business would be continuous and ongoing in 
the yard, whereas he used the yard for storage only 
o The Planner responded that a contractor’s yard is treated as a home-based 
business in the LUB to allow a plumber to keep his truck on his property; but 
that to be considered a home-based business, the property owner, business 
owner, or an employee of the company is expected to be residing on the 
property 
o The present situation seems to go beyond what the current LUB allows 
o A three-year trial-run TUP may lead to site rezoning if business 
operations are satisfactory, or the TUP can be renewed 
o A Trustee added that all TUP applications are circulated to neighbors within a 
100-meter radius; and that good neighbor relations are a significant 
consideration for Trustees; and that bylaw enforcement is complaint driven 
5. COMMUNITY INFORMATION MEETING - None 
6. PUBLIC HEARING - None 
7. MINUTES 
7.1 Local Trust Committee Minutes Dated January 27, 2025 (for Adoption) 
The following amendments to the January 27, 2025 Local Trust Committee minutes 
were presented for consideration: 
• Under Item 11.3,2
nd
 bullet, change the word “would” to “may;” and change the 
word “park” to “conservation.” 
By general consent the Mayne Island Local Trust Committee meeting minutes of 
January 27, 2025 were adopted as amended. 
7.2 Section 26 Resolutions-without-meeting Report - None 
7.3 Advisory Planning Commission Minutes - None 
8. BUSINESS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES 
8.1 Follow-up Action List Dated Feb 2025 
The Planner updated that under Activity Item 6, that staff had received a Temporary 
Use Permit application for float storage in Horton Bay. 
A Trustee requested that Activity Item 7, regarding a staff letter to the province about 
a foreshore encroachment issue, be circulated to the Local Trust Committee. 
9. DELEGATIONS 
  

 
Mayne Island Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
February 24, 2025 ADOPTED Page 3 of 7 
10. CORRESPONDENCE 
Correspondence received concerning current applications or projects is posted to the LTC 
webpage 
11. APPLICATIONS AND REFERRALS 
12. LOCAL TRUST COMMITTEE PROJECTS 
12.1 Housing Review Project - Staff Report 
Island Planner Chadwick presented the staff report. The Planner added that an 
updated Housing Needs Assessment for all the islands should be ready in March 
2025.  New Province-aligned definitions of “cottage,” “accessory dwelling unit,” and 
“accessory residential use” are recommended for inclusion in Mayne Island bylaws. 
 
The Planner presented the following draft bylaw amendment recommendations to 
Trustees for consideration:  
• the proposed addition to Official Community Plan (OCP) item 2.4.1.14 was 
supported by Trustees.  
• The proposed change to the Land Use Bylaw (LUB) language in both 
Commercial 3 (C3) Zone and the Commercial 3 (C4) Zone was supported by 
Trustees.  
• Support was expressed for not changing the current OCP language on strata 
subdivision of secondary suites, so that future strata proposals be individually 
considered by the LTC 
• Concern was expressed that expanding permission for secondary suites in the 
currently excluded Schedule D water districts would increase the likelihood 
that the suites may be converted to short term rentals 
• Support was expressed for the proposed changes to  the LUB to permit cottages 
on lots greater than one acre and maintaining a 2500 square foot maximum 
total combined floor area on smaller lots 
o A Trustee preferred that the sizing of cottages be affected by the size of the 
existing principal residence, as in the flexible housing pilot 
• There was a discussion on the topic of expanding the flexible housing zoning to 
other suitable areas 
o Trustees agreed that proximity to services and transportation routes was an 
important consideration and that any larger size properties be considered 
for suitability for flexible housing. They requested  that Miners Bay be 
excluded as well as properties along Georgina Point Road. 
o The Planner offered to come back with a map and proposal for suitable 
areas, based on various Suitable Land Analysis criteria 
o A Trustee expressed having no confidence in the Suitable Land Analysis 
data, and expressed concern that the data inaccuracies made the Islands 
Trust look bad 
o The Planner offered that any inaccuracies in the Suitable Land Analysis data 
could be addressed as they came up 
o A Trustee noted that the local fire department did not use groundwater to 
fight fires, rather, they brought their own water to the fires 

 
Mayne Island Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
February 24, 2025 ADOPTED Page 4 of 7 
• Support was expressed for allowing zoning for non-market housing for Public 
Use and Public Services, Regional Parks, and Community Parks areas  
• Support was expressed for increasing the number of permitted dwelling units by 
more than one in the Health and Emergency Services Area, the Teacherage 
Property, the lot adjacent to the school building, and the lot adjacent to the one 
over from the school building lot 
o A Trustee suggested adding another approximately one-acre lot to the west 
of Deacon Road and Trustees suggested the planner look at another lot 
owned by Mainroad 
• Support was expressed for adding a new section in the OCP that addresses 
clustered small unit housing; and multi-unit attached housing for moderate 
income, affordable, and special needs housing  
o Trustees  agreed that such housing should not exceed ten units and that it 
be located near services, amenities, and walking and biking trails 
o Trustees also agreed that the Amenity Zoning Guidelines be amended to 
include such housing as a community amenity 
o Trustees agreed to support TUPs for tiny homes on wheels in the OCP 
o The Chair suggested that the MVA277 Manufactured Home Standard be 
considered for the Temporary Use Permit (TUP); and that certification 
for do-it-yourself builders could be pursued by the Regional District 
o The Chair noted that the most relevant, inclusive language for tiny 
homes is “onsite wastewater disposal system” 
o Trustees expressed an interest in controlling derelict Recreational 
Vehicles (RV)s by requiring that (RV)s that are not pre-existing should 
also have a TUP. A Trustee expressed concern about the cost of the 
TUP, suggesting a $500.00 fee and a simplified application process 
would be reasonable 
• Trustees recommended against removing pre-zoning for 
manufactured/mobile/tiny home parks from the list of actions 
o Trustees had suggestions for suitable properties and would send 
information to the Planner 
• Support was expressed for removing “increasing building height” from the list of 
actions, so that it continues to be addressed by development permits and 
development variance permits  
o A Trustee expressed concern about typical costs for applicants being about 
$8000.00 
• Support was expressed for action Items 16-22 regarding increasing 
opportunities for non-profit housing 
o Trustees endorsed the Montrose property and expressed interest in 
additional properties being included in Action Item 20 
o It was suggested that Action Item 22 be added to the Future Projects List  
o A Trustee offered to provide a list of relevant addresses to the Planner 
• There was a discussion on action Items 23-28 regarding preserving ecosystems 
and freshwater  
o Trustees suggested that manufactured cistern sizes be double-checked by 
the Planner; and, that smaller new builds be allowed smaller sized cisterns 
• Adopting updated potable water requirements for subdivision was discussed 

 
Mayne Island Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
February 24, 2025 ADOPTED Page 5 of 7 
o A Trustee expressed concern that excessive well drilling could destroy 
aquifers, which is relevant to Item 6 of the Attachment 4A Trustee disagreed 
with Item 12 
o Trustees supported the prioritizing of alternative potable water supplies 
o A Trustee noted that  the provision of water for a subdivision is subject to 
approval of the Local Trust Committee, which means that cisterns could be 
acceptable 
o A Trustee considered that desalination and shallow dug wells could also be 
viable potable water options 
• Prohibiting groundwater fed swimming pools was agreed to by Trustees, stating 
that trucked water was a better option 
• There was agreement that establishing “paved surfaces maximums” should be 
moved to the Future Projects List 
• Establishing “floor area maximums” based on “lot area equivalent lots” was 
discussed. 
o The planner noted that this issue needed clarification 
o Trustees requested that” floor area maximums” align with flexible zoning 
MA-2025-008 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that Mayne Island Local Trust Committee request staff draft bylaws to 
implement Phase 2 of the Housing Options Project as discussed. 
CARRIED  
 
A Trustee thanked Planner Chadwick for providing such a comprehensive staff 
report on housing. 
The meeting was recessed at 4:14 and reconvened at 4:22 p.m. 
13. REPORTS 
13.1 Work Program Reports  
13.1.1 Active Projects Report Dated Feb 2025 
Received for information. 
13.1.2 Future Project List Report Dated Feb 2025 
A Trustee requested that “industrial zoning” be added to the Future projects 
List. 
13.2 Applications Report Dated Feb 2025 
A Trustee requested that the description of application MA-RZ-2023.2 be clarified 
such that the term “park” be replaced by the term “conservation.” 
13.3 Trustee and Local Expense Report Dated Dec 2024 
Received for information. 
13.4 Adopted Policies and Standing Resolutions 

 
Mayne Island Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
February 24, 2025 ADOPTED Page 6 of 7 
13.5 Local Trust Committee Webpage 
13.6 Chair's Report 
Chair Elliott reported on the following: 
• The Regional Planning Committee met twice in January to review the Bylaw 
Review Project and Trust Council Policy 5.1 
• An upcoming Executive Committee meeting will set the agenda for the next 
Trust council meeting 
• Current Trust Council Chair Luckham, is stepping down after fourteen years of 
service; and an election will be held at the next Trust council meeting 
• The Financial Planning Committee budget will be debated in March and has 
managed to limit increases to the consumer price index even though actual 
costs have been rising faster than the 2.6% index, and grant and investment 
income is much reduced 
13.7 Trustee Report 
Trustee Dodds reported on the following: 
• Attending the excellent Mayne Island Fallow Deer Society meeting in February, 
noting that forty people attended 
o The information meeting was about an upcoming April 13, 2025 survey of 
deer, to be conducted over twenty-five transit areas 
o The survey would be mapped out for people to sign up and count deer seen 
from 7 to 8p.m. under the supervision of the Regional District’s Wildlife 
Biologist 
• Trustee Dodds added that she has not been able to attend the Committee of the 
Whole meetings due to work scheduling conflicts. 
 
Trustee Maude reported on the following: 
• The eight emails received last week regarding a broken section of Miners Bay 
Dock  were forwarded to the appreciative Capital Regional District Director 
o This instance reflects the reality that Trustees are often the first point of 
contact for problems on the island, even though these problems may be 
outside the Island Trust’s jurisdiction 
• Many positive evolving changes on Mayne Island are occurring; though some 
restaurants and small businesses are struggling because people are not going 
out as much 
13.8 Electoral Area Director's Report 
None 
13.9 Islands Trust Conservancy Report Dated Feb 2025 
Received for Information. 
14. NEW BUSINESS 

 
Mayne Island Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
February 24, 2025 ADOPTED Page 7 of 7 
15. UPCOMING MEETINGS 
15.1 Next Regular Meeting Scheduled for April 28, 2025 at the Agricultural Hall, 
Mayne Island 
16. TOWN HALL  
17. CLOSED MEETING - None 
18. ADJOURNMENT 
By general consent the meeting was adjourned at 4:35 p.m. 
 
 
_________________________ 
Tobi Elliott, Chair 
 
Certified Correct: 
 
_________________________ 
Katherine Vogt, Recorder