North Pender Island Local Trust Committee regular meeting, April 12, 2025

[0:00:00] across the territory, and of course the LHP following.

[0:00:02] I'm David Bartlett, and I'm the main island chair

[0:00:05] of the North Tender Island Local Trust Committee.

[0:00:07] I'm joined today by two local island trustees,

[0:00:09] Ed

[0:00:10] Voice 6: Campbell and Deb Morrison,

[0:00:11] Voice 6: who are just online from the night of the APIC convention

[0:00:15] Voice 6: up there doing some work with the council,

[0:00:17] Voice 6: so we much appreciate her doing double duty for us today.

[0:00:22] Voice 6: Today, together, we make up

[0:00:24] Voice 6: the North Tender Island Local Trust Committee.

[0:00:25] Voice 6: This meeting is being screened and recorded,

[0:00:27] Voice 6: which was run able to attend the first of the day,

[0:00:29] Voice 6: recording posted down on this website for future viewing we have some staff members joining us

[0:00:34] Voice 6: today we have brad smith your island planner and we have lisa movard who is our meeting host

[0:00:41] Voice 6: um via zoom and um doing all those magical things right in the scenes with us which we very much

[0:00:47] Voice 6: appreciate um this meeting is uh an efficient forum for your trust meeting decisions will

[0:00:52] Voice 6: management and discussion of the business our staff have the right to be safe in a

[0:01:00] Voice 6: respectful workplace so before us we have a fairly straightforward agenda

[0:01:06] Voice 6: with the staff presentational act invest bks and housing access and affordability project

[0:01:14] Voice 6: is there anything more that the trustees want to add to the agenda no i see some shaking hands

[0:01:20] Voice 6: so we're off right now by general consent we've got the agenda and we will move straight in with

[0:01:27] Voice 6: the graphic that's the dpa program so i will hand it over to planet spam and people will take the

[0:01:35] Voice 6: lead on this thank

[0:01:37] Voice 9: you everyone so this is just a brief uh presentation on one of the projects that

[0:01:44] Voice 9: the uh local trust committee has been working on in terms of updating their development permit

[0:01:49] Voice 9: areas. So the raptor nests are located within the trust area. So this will just be a brief

[0:01:57] Voice 9: presentation. Some of this has been presented before, so I'll go through it quickly, but just

[0:02:11] Voice 1: Sorry, somebody turned the volume off.

[0:02:15] Voice 9: Oh, yeah.

[0:02:15] Voice 9: Things are just slow.

[0:02:18] Voice 9: Thank you.

[0:02:21] Voice 4: Thank you.

[0:02:34] Voice 7: You're looking for show?

[0:02:35] Voice 7: Yeah.

[0:02:37] Voice 7: This is where

[0:02:44] Voice 4: I always get stuck.

[0:02:48] Voice 7: too many options, too many buttons.

[0:02:50] Voice 9: I'm going to call my daughter.

[0:02:51] Voice 9: Yeah.

[0:02:53] Voice 11: Is this cool?

[0:02:54] Voice 11: I think

[0:02:56] Voice 9: it's in the lower right box.

[0:02:59] Voice 9: Here?

[0:03:00] Voice 9: There's a little

[0:03:01] Voice 9: set of .

[0:03:04] Voice 9: Thank

[0:03:04] Voice 8: you.

[0:03:05] Voice 9: There we go.

[0:03:07] Voice 7: Hallelujah.

[0:03:10] Voice 9: All right, sorry about that.

[0:03:13] Voice 9: Okay, so

[0:03:14] Voice 9: Jen is just going to quickly give a project overview

[0:03:17] Voice 9: review and speak to the study that has been completed by a professional biologist, a field

[0:03:25] Voice 9: naturalist, Dr. Dave Manning, walk through the bylaw amendment recommendations, talk

[0:03:31] Voice 9: about the updated mapping that's been done through this fall and spring, and the next

[0:03:35] Voice 9: steps, and then any questions that the community or the local trust committee may have, I'll

[0:03:41] Voice 9: be able to talk to that.

[0:03:42] Voice 9: that. So the current development permit areas for raptors was adopted in 2008, based on surveys by

[0:03:51] Voice 9: local volunteers. The two that are involved now were involved in the original as well. The nest

[0:03:58] Voice 9: trees were mapped and development permit areas were created with those trees as well as buffer

[0:04:05] Voice 9: areas to create protection areas around those trees. And currently the LTC is updating

[0:04:11] Voice 9: that data set as well as the guidance in the DPA to reflect updated provincial guidelines.

[0:04:22] Voice 9: So what are DPAs? So the OCP lays out the community's long-term vision and strategies.

[0:04:29] Voice 9: Local governments within their OCPs have the authority to designate development permit

[0:04:33] Voice 9: areas. Development permit areas are for the protection of the natural environment, in

[0:04:39] Voice 9: In this case, ecosystems and biological diversity

[0:04:41] Voice 9: can also have development permit areas

[0:04:43] Voice 9: for protection of form and character, for example,

[0:04:46] Voice 9: in commercial buildings.

[0:04:50] Voice 9: Steep slope, protection of the environment.

[0:04:53] Voice 9: There's a number of things that the Act describes.

[0:04:56] Voice 9: The OCP must describe the special conditions

[0:05:00] Voice 9: or objectives that justify the destination.

[0:05:03] Voice 9: And then there's associated guidelines under that

[0:05:05] Voice 9: that are all part of the by-law structure

[0:05:08] Voice 9: structure that then if you need to develop in the development permit area you are required

[0:05:12] Voice 9: to meet those guidelines through the permitting process. So development permit area 7 on North

[0:05:21] Voice 9: Pender includes provisions for the production of the habitat used by bald eagles, raptors,

[0:05:26] Voice 9: other raptors, great blue parrots, both domestic breeding. It generally applies to any subdivision

[0:05:33] Voice 9: of land, any development or construction of structures or buildings or alteration.

[0:05:39] Voice 9: There are a number of exemptions as well in the OCP that can relieve you the requirements of the

[0:05:51] Voice 9: development permit. For example, if you're repairing a structure that's already there

[0:05:55] Voice 9: and you don't need to create it for these terms. So the schedule associated in the OCP

[0:06:03] Voice 9: shows, and you can see on the picture here, it shows the sites of the nests here on dots

[0:06:10] Voice 9: with their buffer areas and that mapping was last updated in 2008 and so that's why this

[0:06:18] Voice 9: work is going on now to update that data center.

[0:06:24] Voice 9: So project deliverables,

[0:06:25] Voice 9: engagement letter to First Nations is complete, project chartered

[0:06:29] Voice 9: work plan are complete, a study has been completed.

[0:06:33] Voice 9: we sent one letter to property owners uh second letter is pending uh based on now this new data

[0:06:39] Voice 9: we will update that list of property owners ongoing with uh bringing information back and

[0:06:46] Voice 9: we have a draft by law drafted which helps me too second uh

[0:06:51] Voice 2: what is that what are the owners being

[0:06:54] Voice 2: told in the letter that this project is underway or they have some obligations or what

[0:06:58] Voice 9: so uh the

[0:06:59] Voice 9: the letters spoke to that in this in the first letter case I spoke to that there's a potential

[0:07:06] Voice 9: nest tree on your property and that just speaks to what the development provisions might be

[0:07:14] Voice 9: around that updating the guidelines

[0:07:16] Voice 4: the buffer areas

[0:07:17] Voice 9: are becoming quite a bit larger based

[0:07:19] Voice 9: on the new provincial guidelines so that's one of the main changes to the or the proposed

[0:07:26] Voice 9: proposed changes in the by-law would be increased buffer areas, capturing more properties than

[0:07:31] Voice 9: that would be needing to comply with development requirements.

[0:07:37] Voice 9: So in 2024, a study has been completed assessing the existing nests as well as new nests, so

[0:07:50] Voice 9: So data collection, analysis of ground truth, and then the creation of new GIS maps, which

[0:07:59] Voice 9: are up on the wall there.

[0:08:00] Voice 9: If you have any specific questions, we can talk through that at the end.

[0:08:06] Voice 9: And so bringing updated mapping to replace that schedule in the OCP, and to remove sites

[0:08:19] Voice 9: that don't exist anymore and to update with any new sites so I'm not going to speak too much to

[0:08:36] Voice 9: is the

[0:08:42] Voice 2: number of new sites as you expected are you pleasantly surprised is it less than expected

[0:08:47] Voice 2: I would

[0:08:51] Voice 9: say that there's been maybe the creation of a net 20 or 25 new sites in

[0:08:59] Voice 8: my view that's

[0:09:00] Voice 9: That's good in that

[0:09:01] Voice 9: you have these important apex predator species in your habitats, play

[0:09:08] Voice 9: an important role, so it's positive.

[0:09:12] Voice 2: Yeah, but was it

[0:09:14] Voice 2: what you were expecting?

[0:09:15] Voice 2: As

[0:09:15] Voice 9: not being a bird expert on your island, I didn't really necessarily know what to expect.

[0:09:25] Voice 9: Yeah.

[0:09:36] Voice 12: Territories have held pretty steady for 20 years.

[0:09:39] Voice 12: Okay.

[0:09:40] Yeah.

[0:09:44] Voice 12: Maybe it's like decline in people.

[0:09:48] That's period.

[0:09:52] Voice 9: That's period.

[0:09:54] Voice 9: Where did we lost nests?

[0:09:57] Voice 9: Well, the number of nests that I've identified here is almost a dozen.

[0:10:01] Voice 12: Yeah.

[0:10:02] Voice 12: I mean, I don't know.

[0:10:02] Voice 12: that they, in my time, 33 nests have fallen.

[0:10:07] Voice 12: So they're not building nests in new territories.

[0:10:12] Voice 12: All the territories are basically full right now

[0:10:16] Voice 12: over the 20 years.

[0:10:17] Voice 12: They don't move from one territory to another.

[0:10:21] Voice 12: So there has been a decline in about two or three

[0:10:25] Voice 12: territories that I know of.

[0:10:27] Voice 12: So the increase in nests means nothing

[0:10:31] Voice 12: When you had 33 masts come down, they were just replacing masts basically.

[0:10:36] Voice 12: And you

[0:10:37] Voice 5: said full territory. Does that mean eagles are territorial?

[0:10:42] Voice 12: They're all territorial. They

[0:10:44] Voice 5: all have about a

[0:10:45] Voice 12: kilometer to a kilometer and a half of ocean in front of them.

[0:10:50] Voice 12: Because they're old.

[0:10:55] Voice 9: So just speaking to the raptor, I'm not going to speak in great detail to the data,

[0:11:00] Voice 9: but there's mapping work completed with obviously then creation of the list of the new data

[0:11:09] Voice 9: broken down by species. So these maps on the wall here, the map on the left is the most recent map

[0:11:17] Voice 9: and I see doubling in PMS but there are a bunch of red circles on there that they've identified

[0:11:22] Voice 9: more recently and it's not that we're on the data set in the fall and are no longer there now so

[0:11:29] Voice 9: So, obviously, it sounds like there's actually a pretty balanced number of nests coming and going, but a loss of, when you say territory, you're saying that eagles are no longer establishing in that territory because of whatever disturbance.

[0:11:48] Voice 9: Like you've lost two or three territories. That means that there's no longer any eagle in that area.

[0:11:56] Voice 9: what i've been area that used to be with a green barrel and like the

[0:12:03] Voice 12: building that i don't totally

[0:12:08] Voice 12: and

[0:12:14] Voice 9: so study study recommendations so the study not only provided mapping it also provided

[0:12:25] Voice 9: an assessment of the existing development permit area requirements and the proposed changes

[0:12:32] Voice 9: which now are reflected in the draft bylaw that bring up to date the development permit

[0:12:41] Voice 9: requirements to provincial guidelines that were published in 2013 documents to support

[0:12:49] Voice 9: the best care for raptors and parents and so those are being proposed in draft bylaw

[0:13:02] Voice 9: 235 which is just out of draft stage and hasn't been given any readings by the LTC and staff are

[0:13:13] Voice 9: suggesting that we get the second letter out to property owners.

[0:13:18] Voice 9: Just speak through this and I'll talk to you about the next steps.

[0:13:21] Voice 9: So one of the biggest proposed changes is the change in buffer areas.

[0:13:30] I'm just wondering, you have a list of the addresses of people who sent it, because I

[0:13:36] know that it was brought

[0:13:37] Voice 9: by, which seems clear to me, and I don't feel excited.

[0:13:41] Voice 9: So the first letter that was sent was sent only to the property owners where the tree

[0:13:46] Voice 9: actually existed on their lot.

[0:13:48] Voice 9: The next round of letters, now that we have a more refined data set, we take this time

[0:13:57] Voice 9: So the next letter will go to like all 300 properties where any of those buffer yields touch.

[0:14:06] Voice 9: So you will receive a letter in the next several weeks.

[0:14:10] Voice 9: And then you'll have time, at least until July or September, before staff will bring forward that buy-off for consideration.

[0:14:19] Voice 9: which people actually want to for a second maybe public hearing okay to make sense

[0:14:27] Voice 9: uh so the biggest change or not you know there's many changes in the in the proposed bylaws to

[0:14:33] Voice 9: reflect the guidelines but the biggest change is the buffer area is changing from previously

[0:14:37] Voice 9: 30 to 50 meters to now being uh uh in size for there's so many creatures uh 60 meters for

[0:14:46] Voice 9: for bald eagle, for example, but then and also an additional bumper area for a seasonal

[0:14:53] Voice 9: bumper where that would essentially be a quiet zone for the development to protect the green.

[0:15:04] Voice 5: Excuse me,

[0:15:04] Voice 9: what happens when the property that's captured by this increased area, what

[0:15:13] Voice 9: happens to those properties if there are some more restrictions, I guess?

[0:15:19] Voice 9: So if you're going to build a house or a driveway or type of development that applies to the development permit area, you'd be required to get a development permit authorizing you to do that.

[0:15:33] Voice 9: rate and so development permits are set up as a set of guidelines that you're you get a it's more

[0:15:42] Voice 9: basic professional role so you'll have a professional biologist or sometimes a professional

[0:15:47] Voice 9: engineer or a mix of those to assess and to provide a report that describes recommendations

[0:15:56] Voice 9: and conditions upon which it would be reasonable for you to develop that site so as long as you

[0:16:02] Voice 1: can demonstrate

[0:16:03] Voice 9: you need those guidelines the local trust less ability to say say no versus

[0:16:11] Voice 9: like a variance permit where say you wanted to build in a lot of setback they have full discretion

[0:16:17] Voice 9: to say so no matter what your rationale in in case

[0:16:21] Voice 10: of development permits

[0:16:22] Voice 9: as long as you can

[0:16:23] Voice 8: demonstrate

[0:16:23] Voice 9: that you're reasonably meeting those guidelines. So what happens is captured by areas.

[0:16:36] Voice 9: So if you have a lot that's undeveloped, and it is captured within development permit area

[0:16:44] Voice 9: to build your house, you would need to get obtained a development permit. So there would

[0:16:49] Voice 9: be an extra permitting process required to get and that development would need to consider

[0:16:59] Voice 9: that raptor nest and its habitat. So if there's two sites to build your house, for example,

[0:17:05] Voice 9: one next to the raptor nest and one far away, the QEP is going to recommend that that house

[0:17:12] Voice 9: the site as far away from that tree as possible. And it may reduce, you know, the amount of trees

[0:17:18] Voice 9: you can maybe move forward. If you put a septic field where all of those things would be things

[0:17:23] Voice 9: that would be restricted in that zone. But the goal is not to sterilize lots or to create an

[0:17:31] Voice 9: an unbillable environment. So there are some language guidelines that recognize that,

[0:17:41] Voice 9: especially in the case that you build, you just need to build your house in a way that's sensitive

[0:17:49] Voice 9: to that. What about how long it's already there? Yeah, it's been there for years. That would be

[0:17:58] Voice 9: because it's built before the development permit is in place, but if you want to then build your

[0:18:04] Voice 9: garage next to your house, you would need a permanent building permit or a woodshed.

[0:18:10] Voice 9: So if the property is existing, what size structure would you call it? A woodshed?

[0:18:21] Voice 9: Anything over 100 or even over 10 meters.

[0:18:25] Voice 9: Yeah, that's a type

[0:18:26] Voice 9: of building permit. It would really be practically any structure that has potential in it.

[0:18:31] Voice 9: that so that so in the ocp there's a number of provisions that speaks to for

[0:18:40] Voice 11: example if you

[0:18:40] Voice 11: already have your existing home and you want to add to your home whether it's a shed whether it's

[0:18:47] Voice 10: video deck or garage does that qualify or is it just new uh

[0:18:52] Voice 9: yeah that would that would be

[0:18:54] Voice 9: construction of addition to or alteration of a building or other structure so

[0:19:00] Voice 10: if you want to

[0:19:00] Voice 10: in addition to our house, he needs permission to run it now, and

[0:19:07] Voice 9: we can smooth that.

[0:19:08] Voice 9: Correct.

[0:19:10] Voice 9: Sorry, it's not under these new guidelines.

[0:19:15] Voice 9: You already have to have that now.

[0:19:19] Voice 9: Yes.

[0:19:20] Voice 9: It's just an expanded area.

[0:19:23] Voice 9: Exactly.

[0:19:24] Voice 9: That's what I wanted to say.

[0:19:25] Voice 9: And in some cases, they don't really apply where people have trees and where there's a buffer making sure those sites are still active. And then

[0:19:39] Voice 9: buffer. So more areas.

[0:19:47] Voice 9: My question is, I'm going to build another structure. Yeah. What size

[0:19:59] Voice 9: So

[0:20:00] Voice 4: in this, if you're in the development

[0:20:01] Voice 9: permit area, there's an alteration of your structure,

[0:20:05] Voice 9: there's a number of...

[0:20:06] Voice 9: It's a new structure.

[0:20:08] Voice 9: Yeah.

[0:20:09] Voice 9: So then you probably...

[0:20:12] Voice 9: For a

[0:20:13] Voice 10: new structure, not

[0:20:14] Voice 9: to replace an old structure.

[0:20:16] Voice 9: So every case has to be looked at, like there's a list, a long list of exemptions in the development

[0:20:25] Voice 9: let's say for example replace the placement of a permanent structure such as benches tables

[0:20:33] Voice 9: garden sorry don't do that submission to the items trust from the professional realm and

[0:20:40] Voice 9: experience sitting that proposed work would have no impact on the key router or hair nesting site

[0:20:44] Voice 9: so if you you could get a letter from a qep saying what i can do here is not going to

[0:20:50] Voice 9: in fact there's no nest or there's no so that it's like exemption so there are a number of those

[0:21:01] Voice 9: the removal of dangerous trees posing an immediate life threat to life so removal of a danger tree

[0:21:07] Voice 9: is something that we need to have yeah and so there's a whole list of exemptions that way

[0:21:15] Voice 9: If you have a building proposal, you can bring that to us and we can assess whether it's

[0:21:24] intentional.

[0:21:25] Voice 5: It's really important to remember that this process is a standard.

[0:21:33] Voice 5: We basically have

[0:21:35] Voice 9: to sterilize from February to September.

[0:21:39] Voice 9: I don't think sterilize.

[0:21:40] Voice 9: We've been through this before.

[0:21:41] Voice 9: I don't think sterilize is the right word.

[0:21:43] Voice 9: Well, let's say it's developments in breeding season.

[0:21:48] Voice 9: So, so when you do.

[0:21:50] Voice 9: Yeah.

[0:21:51] Voice 9: So there's a dependency of timing as well.

[0:21:55] Voice 10: And what was the time?

[0:21:57] Voice 9: Sorry.

[0:21:57] Voice 9: that we were able to

[0:21:59] Voice 5: and

[0:22:03] Voice 5: and

[0:22:04] Voice 5: and

[0:22:04] Voice 5: and

[0:22:05] Voice 5: and

[0:22:32] Voice 9: and

[0:22:32] Voice 9: and

[0:22:32] Voice 9: and

[0:22:32] Voice 9: and

[0:22:33] Voice 9: It all depends on

[0:22:34] Voice 1: what species,

[0:22:35] Voice 9: whether you're sited within the seasonal buffer area or the annual buffer area.

[0:22:42] Voice 9: So there are a lot of days where you just build a woodshed, and away I go.

[0:22:47] Voice 9: I mean, you can't just build a woodshed anyways.

[0:22:54] Voice 9: You can't just

[0:22:56] Voice 9: build a woodshed in your setback.

[0:22:58] Voice 9: No, but what's a woodshed?

[0:23:00] Voice 9: It's a structure. There's a clear definition of a structure, which is pretty

[0:23:05] Voice 3: much just

[0:23:06] Voice 3: clothing. It's going to be forward.

[0:23:09] Voice 9: But in a non-development area, I believe Aaron said

[0:23:15] Voice 9: that's going to be 100 square feet, so you could build a wheelchair. Is that correct?

[0:23:20] Voice 9: Well, permanently. You don't have to get a permit for anything under 10 meters squared.

[0:23:26] Voice 9: That's a building. And

[0:23:28] Voice 9: that also, then I would...

[0:23:30] Voice 9: always cautious to say, because if that's smaller than 10 meters square bill has an electrical, you need to bring it. If it has water, you need to bring it, so there's, so I always just more say CRD has the requirements around what needs to be built from it,

[0:23:44] Voice 9: but what we would define as a structure

[0:23:47] Voice 9: doesn't need a building permit to be defined as a structure, so you couldn't put that woodshed in your lot setback.

[0:23:54] Voice 5: I agree. But

[0:23:56] Voice 9: you couldn't put it in a development permit legally if it's say a herbaceous or

[0:24:01] Voice 9: woodland you couldn't put that structure in there without a permit either. So there's a reason to

[0:24:07] Voice 9: see we're actually working on a property right now where they built they built a little cottage

[0:24:15] Voice 9: and but they had to move it back and actually alter the way that they were going to build it

[0:24:21] Voice 9: stay away from the macro battery at sea right it's a it's less than 107 square feet but um

[0:24:30] Voice 9: you know there are still considerations where you can't even an unpermitted

[0:24:36] Voice 9: structure can be built in certain areas that's the problem i

[0:24:40] Voice 5: don't disagree with what you're

[0:24:42] Voice 5: saying but

[0:24:42] Voice 9: i think what i'm saying

[0:24:43] Voice 9: is that people

[0:24:45] Voice 5: didn't have this development permit

[0:24:47] Voice 5: it's very spanning adjacent 30 problems or whatever it is and you're not going to set that

[0:24:55] Voice 5: you could build a mission but you can't build it up to the statement

[0:24:59] Voice 5: sometimes a biologist can do a study that

[0:25:06] Voice 8: is dramatically added to the cost starting to

[0:25:17] Voice 9: gentlemen back just a question what's driving the proposed change so uh in the opening you said uh

[0:25:24] in keeping

[0:25:25] Voice 9: with provincial guidelines as opposed to regulation or policy so whose idea is it and

[0:25:31] Voice 9: why is it being put forward one i mean i think one of the reasons that we've started looking at

[0:25:37] Voice 9: different DPAs is that in the past there's been DPAs that hadn't been ground-truthed.

[0:25:47] Voice 9: They've been taken from an aerial mission or, you know, shark tail snakes have a certain

[0:25:58] Voice 9: habitat and so someone would walk through and have a look and say, you know, that looks like

[0:26:04] Voice 9: the right kind of habitat and that becomes the DPA. We've had some issues in the last couple

[0:26:12] Voice 9: of terms with people cutting right through a DPA and not sort of giving any sort of

[0:26:21] Voice 9: consideration of what they were doing and so looking 20 years later at updating and trying

[0:26:30] Voice 9: to figure out, you know, what is, what has validity and what maybe doesn't have validity

[0:26:36] Voice 9: anymore.

[0:26:36] Voice 9: And in a specific case, there was two DBAs on one lot, one that didn't exist anymore,

[0:26:43] Voice 9: but no one had done any work to remove the one.

[0:26:48] Voice 9: So after it had been destroyed, there was no way to prove whether it was valid or not.

[0:26:55] Voice 9: The other one got cut right up to the main tree.

[0:27:01] Voice 9: there's no there's it's very very difficult for us to enforce anything with dpas um when we're

[0:27:12] Voice 9: outside of what the province sort of deems to be reasonable so if we want to enforce

[0:27:20] Voice 9: basically the protection of um wildlife on on the island that are for fauna we need to know that if

[0:27:28] Voice 9: we can't do it that the problems would back us up to do it and if we've got some weird stuff written

[0:27:34] Voice 9: off that doesn't align

[0:27:36] Voice 9: um we have very little uh hope of ever having anything like that backed up

[0:27:42] Voice 9: that would make sense if your guidelines were larger than what the province had recommended

[0:27:46] Voice 9: and your guidelines are smaller than what the province is recommending no problem

[0:27:52] Voice 9: um still

[0:27:53] Voice 6: haven't answered the question of who's driving the increase of the population so trustee

[0:28:01] Voice 6: can

[0:28:02] Voice 1: i just hear the question one more time please yeah

[0:28:05] Voice 9: i'm just asking who is who's initiating the

[0:28:09] Voice 9: expansion of the exclusion area from 30 to 50 meters to 100 what what is the end of this to

[0:28:19] Voice 9: make that change i

[0:28:21] Voice 1: think that's actually a question for um planner smith because my understanding is

[0:28:26] Voice 1: that this is a recommendation coming from staff really i don't know planner smith can you give

[0:28:32] Voice 1: more background to that so

[0:28:34] Voice 9: to be clear the buffers that

[0:28:35] Voice 9: are not increasing to 100 meters they're

[0:28:37] Voice 9: increasing to uh 60 meters for great for bald eagle 200 for great pink hair and 100 for all

[0:28:48] Voice 9: So, and then there's a CISO buffer area that expands for eagles to 160 meter buffer, so

[0:28:57] Voice 9: I'm not saying it's not significantly bigger, but just to clarify that there are different

[0:29:01] Voice 9: ranges for them.

[0:29:03] Voice 9: The driver is...

[0:29:04] Voice 4: Is

[0:29:04] Voice 9: that the radius?

[0:29:07] Voice 9: I'm trying to get into how big that is.

[0:29:09] Voice 9: It's a 30 meter radius, or it's a 60 meter radius.

[0:29:14] Voice 9: radius just so 60 meters from yeah christy morris no

[0:29:21] Voice 1: no just one more finished thing he's just not

[0:29:23] Voice 1: quite finished

[0:29:24] Voice 9: so the driver for uh the driver for uh the local trust committee on the driver

[0:29:30] Voice 9: for this works the local trust committee wanting to update their bylaws to update not only the

[0:29:36] Voice 9: mapping but also the provisions to reflect you know best practices around protecting these

[0:29:42] Voice 9: creatures uh the driver for these changing buffer areas is the provincial guidelines

[0:29:48] Voice 9: and the recommendations of the profession of qbp that's recommending to the elected

[0:29:53] Voice 9: officials that they adopt these new buffer areas that the province says are better

[0:30:00] Voice 9: for protecting these spaces.

[0:30:01] Voice 9: Thank you.

[0:30:04] Voice 1: Thank you.

[0:30:04] Voice 1: That's super helpful.

[0:30:06] Voice 1: So I guess I would just add to this a couple things.

[0:30:09] Voice 1: So one, those recommendations are coming out

[0:30:13] Voice 1: as sort of new understandings

[0:30:15] Voice 1: of what are best practices around raptor protection.

[0:30:19] Voice 1: And then second, the update is just,

[0:30:23] Voice 1: it's a thing like Aaron's saying,

[0:30:25] Voice 1: we actually should have a regular rotation

[0:30:27] Voice 1: of updating all dpa areas and just checking them against reality because we've also had this

[0:30:35] Voice 1: problem with our wetland dpas so where wetlands that were on the aerial photos are there but

[0:30:44] Voice 1: other wetlands that were not marked so i've had like at least three situations i think it is now

[0:30:51] Voice 1: where we've had applications or just community members have come to me about wetlands that are

[0:30:57] Voice 1: are not on our mapping so our mapping just didn't capture everything when it was originally done

[0:31:03] Voice 1: so you know it's just I think a good practice for us as local government to just check our

[0:31:09] Voice 1: dvas are accurate to what's on the ground occasionally the challenge I think that we

[0:31:14] Voice 1: have in doing that is that every time we do a project like that it is a project and we're only

[0:31:20] Voice 1: allowed two projects at once so we have to give up something to be able to update maps right because

[0:31:25] Voice 1: Because, like, I'd also like to us to consider and have a community conversation around forestry management, right?

[0:31:33] Voice 1: But that would be a project.

[0:31:35] Voice 1: So it would replace, like, us updating maps if we were doing that.

[0:31:39] Voice 1: So it's just, it's, there are tradeoffs that we have to have because of capacity and staff time.

[0:31:44] Voice 1: And then the last thing I think to something else Erin just mentioned about the enforcement and, like, the follow-up with the province around DPAs.

[0:31:53] Voice 1: That's an ongoing thing that we're trying to resolve.

[0:31:56] Voice 1: It is part of the work that I do inside AVIC, inside Trust Council, to be able to understand how we're getting provincial backing, because the issue that we had on Schooner with the Raptor's Nest DPA that was violated was, you know, the province had a responsibility to sort of lean in there and they chose not to do that.

[0:32:24] Voice 1: and you know so we were sit in a sort of retroactive um permitting situation there

[0:32:32] Voice 1: and that's that's not ideal that's simply not ideal so how do we gain some of the municipal

[0:32:37] Voice 1: powers as trust council to be able to you know impose fines for people that violate our community

[0:32:43] Voice 1: agreements which is what dpas are dpas are essentially community agreements on what we

[0:32:48] Voice 1: care about so and like without being too heavy-handed and just like like come on just

[0:32:54] Voice 1: like these are agreements that we have as in living together and protecting the spaces that

[0:32:58] Voice 1: we care about right so like what are those agreements and if you disagree with them

[0:33:02] Voice 1: like say it right so that we can have reasonable conversations about that but if we have those

[0:33:07] Voice 1: rules like we want them forcible right so

[0:33:13] Voice 7: i'm hearing that you want to keep the data updated

[0:33:19] Voice 7: and be accurate.

[0:33:22] Voice 5: Yet when I read the notices from owners, there's examples of people who

[0:33:28] Voice 5: said the tree has not been occupied or had a nest in it for 20 years. I can tell you

[0:33:33] Voice 5: that the one on mine, as my neighbor said, hasn't had a nest held down in 2019. And yet

[0:33:41] Voice 5: it's still in the inventory.

[0:33:43] Voice 9: So that's by our opinion, sir.

[0:34:07] Voice 5: What are you confused

[0:34:10] Voice 9: about? It hasn't been updated since 2008, that's why they're making

[0:34:14] Voice 9: the effort after 18 years to update the map and to address those concerns.

[0:34:19] Voice 9: So that's the point, if it's still showing as a nest there, and there's no nest, that's

[0:34:25] Voice 9: what we've been doing for the last six months and continue to do over the next several months

[0:34:30] Voice 9: to fix and clean up and update the map, just like we have, there's a

[0:34:36] Voice 9: whole bunch of red

[0:34:41] Voice 9: So

[0:34:41] Voice 5: we're conscious

[0:34:43] Voice 9: of trying

[0:34:44] Voice 5: to get the mapping as correct as

[0:34:46] Voice 9: possible, so then we don't bust

[0:34:51] Voice 9: the point.

[0:34:52] Voice 9: We're trying to get it as accurate as possible.

[0:34:54] Voice 9: Bring that information to us and we will look at the tree as we've been doing, and if it's

[0:35:00] Voice 9: no longer a viable nest, it will be taken off.

[0:35:09] Voice 9: I think so let's deal with that individual tree again as I said at the start of the meeting

[0:35:16] Voice 5: okay the

[0:35:17] Voice 9: information that just has been updated is that that's still there's still a viable nest

[0:35:22] Voice 9: there but this meeting is not really the place to talk about one particular point being we're trying

[0:35:27] Voice 9: to work with property owners to update the information the best we can.

[0:35:34] Voice 9: Well, it doesn't sound like it,

[0:35:36] Voice 5: so I'm giving you some feedback.

[0:35:38] Voice 5: Noted.

[0:35:39] Voice 10: Thank you. Noted.

[0:35:40] Voice 10: I think the public

[0:35:42] Voice 5: needs to hear something,

[0:35:45] Voice 5: because I can tell you that when your first map came out,

[0:35:49] Voice 5: it had three months.

[0:35:51] Voice 5: Sir,

[0:35:52] Voice 9: like I've said to you.

[0:35:54] Voice 9: Can I finish?

[0:35:55] Voice 9: No, I've heard enough.

[0:35:56] Voice 9: Chair,

[0:35:57] Voice 1: can I have the chair?

[0:35:58] Voice 1: leaning to

[0:35:59] Voice 9: the meeting please yes please listen this is supposed to be public input

[0:36:04] Voice 9: so i

[0:36:05] Voice 1: need the chair to like

[0:36:07] Voice 1: take control of the meeting please thank you

[0:36:09] Voice 9: no

[0:36:10] Voice 6: but simply sir if you put in a written submission going here's the tree i'm questioning

[0:36:20] whether it's valid or not

[0:36:22] Voice 6: it'll go through the process and if you have done it it's in the

[0:36:26] Voice 6: process. If you haven't done it, it will be in the process.

[0:36:29] Voice 9: If we still made a mistake, we'll fix it.

[0:36:33] Voice 9: We're not perfect human beings. We're doing the best we can to have an accurate map

[0:36:37] Voice 9: of nests. Well, I was advised that there was a communication process and then

[0:36:45] Voice 5: Dave Manning came to the Magic Lake property owners meeting and you gave a great excuse

[0:36:52] Voice 5: you see what we need to explain and we're not able to get that information that's right i

[0:36:59] Voice 12: don't think

[0:37:00] Voice 12: you really know uh full details of what your specific property area is about because there

[0:37:08] Voice 12: were changes made i don't know what matter you're referring to there are changes and there will be

[0:37:15] Voice 12: update just since this latest game I've got three things already so this

[0:37:22] Voice 7: is the process

[0:37:23] Voice 12: the

[0:37:23] Voice 5: tree came down you

[0:37:24] Voice 7: told me

[0:37:26] Voice 12: three there were there was one tree nest you want me to speak to

[0:37:33] Voice 12: this particular sure let's if you don't

[0:37:36] Voice 9: want to that would be very thank you

[0:37:37] Voice 12: in this area

[0:37:38] Voice 12: there was one tree at the top of your property years ago it's 2007

[0:37:46] Voice 12: The nest came down, but the tree is still viable to contain a nest, so that tree is

[0:37:51] Voice 12: still in the DPA.

[0:37:53] Voice 12: The nest came down, but the tree is still viable to build a nest.

[0:37:59] Voice 11: And that's a very important thing to

[0:38:01] Voice 12: keep in mind.

[0:38:01] Voice 12: And they saw the eagles move about 75 meters, maybe 100 meters, to build a new nest that

[0:38:11] Voice 12: that was i believe just off your property but still there was no dpa on that now no i don't

[0:38:18] Voice 12: trust dpa at all that nest came down to my understanding uh last winter in the store

[0:38:25] Voice 12: not 2019. that was that was still on top okay yeah so the second tree that they built the nest in

[0:38:35] Voice 12: And last winter in that huge storm, over the top of the tree snapped, there's no branches

[0:38:43] Voice 12: much left.

[0:38:44] Voice 12: Probably can't build a nest in that tree, so that won't be on the map, okay?

[0:38:49] Voice 12: What is?

[0:38:50] Voice 12: Well, we'll take it off the tree sign here, okay?

[0:38:55] Voice 12: However, the eagles have now built another nest and that second tree came down, and it's

[0:39:01] Voice 12: It's very close to where that first nest was, right at the top of your property, still on

[0:39:07] Voice 12: your property.

[0:39:07] Voice 12: It's a little farther down, maybe 50 meters from the first beetle tree nest.

[0:39:13] Voice 12: Now there's a new nest there, and they're all about saying eggs.

[0:39:19] Voice 12: So that's what's happening on your property.

[0:39:22] Voice 12: There's still a new nest, we'll be on this new DPA, and the old first nest will still

[0:39:29] Voice 12: be there because it's still a viable tree that really came down last winter it won't be on at

[0:39:35] Voice 12: all but you're still going to be affected there's still going to be two eagle trees right on top of

[0:39:42] Voice 12: your property i can show you where they are thank

[0:39:46] Voice 7: you so

[0:39:49] Voice 12: that's all that's going to happen with your

[0:39:51] Voice 12: property there's still two eagle nest trees one which has a nest in it and they're active right

[0:39:57] Voice 12: now today. The other one in 2007 DPA, which does not have a net, but it still can contain a net,

[0:40:07] Voice 12: it's still a branch and they could build a net if they wanted to. That's up to you.

[0:40:13] Voice 12: So these are the only two trees that affect your property.

[0:40:18] Voice 6: Dr. I'd like to ask Dr. Morrison just once to speak, please.

[0:40:21] Voice 6: Dr.

[0:40:22] Voice 1: Thank you. I'm frankly amazed that Dave manages to keep all this clear in his

[0:40:27] Voice 1: his head with all the different trees and he looks at over time so thanks dave for that um and just

[0:40:33] Voice 1: from a process point of view i i really want folks to understand that like we have been going pretty

[0:40:39] Voice 1: slow on this this project in some ways to be able to give community enough time to iterate with the

[0:40:44] Voice 1: maps and to like you know send information in to like you know have conversations like this this

[0:40:50] Voice 1: is one of the reasons this is on the agenda today to like you know get in the the changes we have to

[0:40:56] Voice 1: to have those changes in writing so like if you haven't already had a chance to do it please do

[0:41:01] Voice 1: that you have to submit it to us at the trust it can't be done through the magic lake homeowners

[0:41:06] Voice 1: association it has to come in through us as a trust because it's it's um it's just a different

[0:41:11] Voice 1: branch of governance so um and so if you're having challenges with the process please like

[0:41:19] Voice 1: you know chat with brad he's so excellent at being able to process all this information it's a huge

[0:41:25] Voice 1: amount of information and but like in writing it's super helpful just an email your address

[0:41:32] Voice 1: your concern and get it in because we're not yet at the point where we're

[0:41:37] Voice 1: passing this into bylaw like we want we want to make sure that it's super clear

[0:41:45] Voice 9: just like a clarification on something that david said he said that the nest was no longer present

[0:41:50] Voice 9: in the tree but the tree was still viable therefore it was still protected that's most

[0:41:54] Voice 9: of the trees on the island. That seems unusual, that no presence for raptor activity, but there

[0:42:02] Voice 9: was raptor activity at some point, in this case almost a decade ago, and that tree is still

[0:42:09] Voice 9: protected within EPA. Does that seem reasonable and proven? So I don't think, I think they could

[0:42:17] Voice 9: probably speak to them, but most trees don't have the characteristics to serve an eagle nest or a

[0:42:23] Voice 9: That's probably correct, but they're actually very specific distinct trees and they're typically

[0:42:29] Voice 9: the older real trees with that stand up a little bit taller than the other trees in the area. So

[0:42:34] Voice 9: I would say that the inventory of viable trees is pretty limited.

[0:42:40] Voice 9: If there was a nest there and it's still a viable tree then why shouldn't it be protected?

[0:42:45] Voice 9: We're protecting the nest. Not arguing that part, but a tree without a nest,

[0:42:49] Voice 9: without activity right still protected but if it's still a viable tree then it could it's a uh

[0:42:59] Voice 9: yeah i mean i don't think that's reasonable in brilliance

[0:43:04] Voice 9: you're right one of us is proper one of us isn't

[0:43:12] Voice 9: yeah i think um listening to this um from um a macro point of view it seems to me

[0:43:21] Voice 9: planners are doing the best to get things into form so we can interpret it back and forth

[0:43:28] Voice 9: the subjective aspect of situation i think should be always available to the trustees

[0:43:36] Voice 9: because, you know, the old expression, the law is a mask because of the way certain things are interpreted.

[0:43:43] Voice 9: And I can see some situations where it's stuck within the technical rules, but it doesn't really make sense.

[0:43:52] Voice 9: There's a trade-off.

[0:43:54] Voice 9: And I would hope that the trustees give themselves some power to say, yeah, we'll look at this.

[0:44:00] Voice 9: Now, I know you probably don't get all sorts of appeals on it, but the other thing I can't keep in mind is public acceptance, right?

[0:44:12] Voice 9: Because if the general public feels the whole thing is unreasonable, it's so far away and it's just huge,

[0:44:19] Voice 9: I think you need to do a lot of education to the public to get them to accept this.

[0:44:25] Voice 9: You just lay it down. I think you'll get a lot of people saying this is unreasonable.

[0:44:31] Voice 9: Because it's complicated, you know, people here can listen. Why is the tree still

[0:44:36] Voice 9: happening? It's one of the number of trees, you know, you can debate that, but it doesn't seem just a

[0:44:43] Voice 9: stupid thing when you hear the issues. So I think it's important to get acceptance of it, because you're

[0:44:49] Voice 9: going to get a huge number of odds, and you don't want them all coming to you saying,

[0:44:53] Voice 9: this is outrageous, it's just an ad. You

[0:44:56] Voice 9: won't get acceptance,

[0:44:57] Voice 5: and then you've got a problem. So I think you

[0:44:59] Voice 5: it should have some

[0:45:00] Voice 9: sort of appeal to the trustees and some general sort of guidelines

[0:45:05] Voice 9: so people can look at it.

[0:45:07] Voice 9: This is a trade-off between evil and egos, right?

[0:45:11] Voice 9: Evil that it's not done well, but they aren't trying to get a bit more balanced by the point.

[0:45:18] Voice 9: I think, to be fair, that's why we're here today.

[0:45:23] And that's with the mail-out that's going out, I assume,

[0:45:27] assume that all the information will be part of it, it won't be just

[0:45:32] Voice 6: your property, it will be sort of something that's

[0:45:36] Voice 9: going to happen.

[0:45:37] Voice 9: And also the reason that it's not just being sort of done, study, complete information taken in, put it into a bylaw and pass it, is because it is something that needs community conversation.

[0:45:51] Voice 9: You know, this is the first real sit down that we've been able to have about looking

[0:45:58] Voice 9: at this DPA and getting people's feedback.

[0:46:01] Voice 9: And as Brad was saying earlier, this is something that will likely continue going right through

[0:46:07] Voice 9: the summer in discussion before we get to the point of even considering it for a bylaw.

[0:46:13] Voice 9: So there's plenty of time to have discussions, to look at if there's a tree that was missed or a tree that was wrongly inventory, that it can be removed from that.

[0:46:30] Voice 9: And so that at the end of it, it's factual what we're looking at.

[0:46:37] Voice 9: And we've had feedback from people about this seems ridiculous.

[0:46:41] Voice 9: this seems like, you know, too much, or it affects too many things. The, at the end of

[0:46:49] Voice 9: the day, it's still a conversation, even after the bylaw gets passed. It's just that it requires

[0:46:57] Voice 9: more of a conversation to do something, which for most people is why they moved to a Gulf

[0:47:06] Voice 9: violence didn't move here to see langley or maple ridge style development going on they moved here

[0:47:15] Voice 9: because of the natural environment and wanting to to keep that but we run into this tug of war of

[0:47:25] Voice 9: folks wanting to protect it everywhere other than on their in their own on their own property

[0:47:34] Voice 9: and i'm not saying that that people not i'm not directing that at anybody but that is i mean you

[0:47:40] Voice 9: have to think about how many people that we have dealt with in this term in the last two and a

[0:47:45] Voice 9: half years that have wanted to do something that may or may like have affected the environment

[0:47:52] Voice 9: and having to have the conversation and talk about what are maybe better steps to get the

[0:47:59] Voice 9: the process done, then just siting and use, go ahead, take your foundation, put your house

[0:48:08] Voice 9: where you want to, cut whichever trees you want down, because then we completely diminish

[0:48:15] Voice 9: what it is that we've got here. And so that's the conversation. There is regulations. We

[0:48:26] Voice 9: We don't have a tree-cutting law out here.

[0:48:31] Voice 9: Local government does not have the right to have tree-cutting authority.

[0:48:39] Voice 9: It hasn't been given to them by the province.

[0:48:43] Voice 9: Most of the town is too.

[0:48:47] Voice 6: So Trustee Morrison's got her hand up.

[0:48:50] Voice 1: Yeah, and I think I want to echo the comment that I heard.

[0:48:54] Voice 1: sorry I can't see exactly who's saying these but about education and again that is the reason why

[0:49:00] Voice 1: there's a community information meeting now while we did mail outs while we're having this

[0:49:04] Voice 1: conversation I was actually thinking too that it might be worthwhile over the summer um Aaron and

[0:49:10] Voice 1: I probably have to talk about this a little bit more but I was thinking it might be helpful to

[0:49:15] Voice 1: like you know once every couple weeks or something just have a table at the market and have people

[0:49:20] Voice 1: just come and chat with us as as they sort of wander through about whatever issues come up

[0:49:24] Voice 1: for folks and have some of the maps that are available around this project around the housing

[0:49:29] Voice 1: project just available um and you know we can figure it out among us like you know alternated

[0:49:35] Voice 1: or something like that just to be able to have some some other conversations in these sort of

[0:49:40] Voice 1: slow burn conversations so that we as trustees we absolutely have the authority that you're

[0:49:44] Voice 1: talking about to be able to say yes or no on any particular thing that's why that's why we're here

[0:49:49] Voice 1: as part of the conversation but yes we should be taking the advice of you know biologists or

[0:49:55] Voice 1: recommendations of you know around the protection of of um the raptors and you know really thinking

[0:50:04] Voice 1: about that holistically it is a challenge if it is on any one person's property and how do we

[0:50:09] Voice 1: manage that i also want to echo something that aaron said about um once the dp is in place it

[0:50:14] Voice 1: doesn't mean it's a like sterile zone that you can't touch okay i heard that language earlier

[0:50:19] Voice 1: that's not what a dp is a dp is like you have to come and have a conversation and um you know one

[0:50:26] Voice 1: of the raptor related dps i believe it was raptor related that we had um where somebody actually did

[0:50:31] Voice 1: end up like skirting into the raptor zone it like the plan they had was well thought out it like

[0:50:38] Voice 1: met the sort of ethics of what the dp was doing it was reasonable for what their property was

[0:50:44] Voice 1: and it just allowed a conversation about it and it was like a go-ahead and improve it situation

[0:50:50] Voice 1: so um you know it's it's about just being careful about the place we leave it's not

[0:50:55] Voice 1: it's not raptors versus humans right it's about trying to figure out how to coexist

[0:51:01] Voice 1: in ways that benefit all of us thank

[0:51:04] Voice 8: you just more

[0:51:05] Voice 6: support a

[0:51:06] Voice 8: disappointing clarity related to

[0:51:08] Voice 8: the point brought up by the gentleman right here is uh this potential so uh this tree that was

[0:51:16] talked about is a potential nest tree because uh a leopard had a nest on it um but there could be

[0:51:25] other hollows there could

[0:51:27] Voice 8: be many other uh near old growth trees that could be

[0:51:32] Voice 7: potentially uh

[0:51:34] Voice 7: So,

[0:51:35] Voice 8: is there a possibility that someone would go out and identify a tree as a natural tree

[0:51:42] Voice 8: and that would result in BPA?

[0:51:44] Voice 8: I

[0:51:45] Voice 9: think that they are based on known trees that have held nests in the past.

[0:51:51] Voice 9: The approach it's taking is that it's held a nest in the past and it's still viable,

[0:52:01] Voice 9: So it's not a process of identifying all tree potentials, I would have had to have some

[0:52:08] Voice 9: activity.

[0:52:10] Voice 9: Just for the record, that's not what the guidelines say.

[0:52:13] Voice 9: We'll quote you table one from the guidelines from the province.

[0:52:17] Voice 9: Trees that are preserved all trees and snags used or suspected currently being used by

[0:52:24] Voice 9: wrappers or nesting.

[0:52:25] Voice 9: So, it's not whether it has been used in the next few months, but whether it is currently

[0:52:30] Voice 9: being used.

[0:52:32] Voice 9: So, that is the overreach, the concern.

[0:52:35] Voice 9: I'd love to read that and put that into context.

[0:52:37] Voice 9: Well, I'm not going to jump on your phone.

[0:52:39] Voice 9: Okay.

[0:52:40] Voice 9: The guidelines and the problems in terms of covering the very first part.

[0:52:44] Voice 9: Summary of guidelines intended for health and serving wrappers in urban and rural areas

[0:52:49] Voice 9: from the guidelines for wrapper conservation.

[0:52:52] Voice 9: Yeah, I know.

[0:52:53] Voice 9: What was the very first part?

[0:52:55] Voice 9: Retaining existing habitats, features, and minimizing loss of natural vegetation.

[0:53:00] Voice 9: Preserve all trees and snakes used or suspected of being used by raptors or nestlings as nestling sites.

[0:53:06] Voice 9: So used.

[0:53:07] Voice 9: So if a tree has been used, suspected.

[0:53:10] Voice 9: Or suspected.

[0:53:11] Voice 9: Is being used.

[0:53:13] Voice 9: Not has been.

[0:53:14] Voice 9: Instead is used.

[0:53:15] Voice 9: Language matters.

[0:53:17] Voice 9: Yeah, so we can talk, we can get anywhere.

[0:53:19] Voice 9: I'm not going to argue semantics, but.

[0:53:21] Voice 9: That's not semantics, that's language, and it's important.

[0:53:24] Voice 9: That's why laws have

[0:53:26] Voice 2: very specific language in them.

[0:53:28] Voice 2: They can be interpreted in many ways.

[0:53:31] Voice 2: Alright, so

[0:53:32] Voice 9: he's absolutely correct.

[0:53:34] Voice 9: I'm not going to go back and forth on the

[0:53:35] Voice 2: community information meeting on your opinion.

[0:53:38] Voice 9: It's

[0:53:39] Voice 2: not my opinion.

[0:53:40] Voice 9: It's supposed to be a community information meeting.

[0:53:43] Voice 9: It's supposed to

[0:53:44] Voice 9: be questions and answers, not your strong opinions.

[0:53:47] Voice 9: It's clear you're respected on the proposed bylaw provisions.

[0:53:53] Voice 9: I don't have the capacity to go back and forth with the gentleman there on his phone.

[0:54:00] Voice 9: It's not my bylaw changes, it's being driven by our elected officials.

[0:54:04] Voice 9: I am only bringing the information that the qualified professional has presented and my

[0:54:11] Voice 9: expertise in developing and drafting these bylaws forward.

[0:54:15] Voice 9: The approach taken is that if it's had a nest in it in the past, it's still in the inventory.

[0:54:23] Voice 6: but

[0:54:24] Voice 9: and i would suggest you know is it again rather than back and forth if you've had an

[0:54:29] identifiable concern send an email or send a letter to the local trust committee and it becomes

[0:54:36] all part of the consideration because

[0:54:38] Voice 6: we're still developing and this this is not it's not a done

[0:54:41] Voice 6: deal we're not reaching a conclusion we're sort of mid-process so if there's a change in

[0:54:49] Voice 6: interpretation. Identify that. And then when it comes forward to staff and what will trust committee,

[0:54:55] Voice 6: we will consider that. Because we're still, this is why we're here today. This is what's going to

[0:55:02] Voice 6: be the, what's going to come out of those letters to be in the broader building. This is not being

[0:55:08] Voice 6: pushed through without consideration of all inputs. And you know, so if you're interpreting

[0:55:15] Voice 6: something from the province that you think that we're doing differently,

[0:55:21] Voice 6: highlight it out, send it to us, and then we will be duly looking at it. This is a

[0:55:27] Voice 6: two-way conversation, not a one-way conversation. But the thing is, the

[0:55:31] Voice 6: back-and-forth in a meeting like this, this is not the choice. This is like,

[0:55:35] Voice 6: we're trying to disseminate facts and collect facts and then make the right

[0:55:40] Voice 6: decision. And you know what really, really helps when you're talking about wording

[0:55:44] Voice 6: and provincial legislation and all that, doing the copy and paste of the actual what you're

[0:55:50] Voice 6: talking about, then we get to look at it and really consider what is the proper interpretation.

[0:55:56] Voice 6: And if we have to, we'll send it off to our lawyers to get a full, if there's two different

[0:56:03] Voice 6: ways of interpreting it, we need to understand the proper way.

[0:56:07] Voice 6: But as I say, we're here today to give information and collect information.

[0:56:15] Voice 5: But even from a process standpoint, I would think you'd be interested in process, would

[0:56:19] Voice 5: you not?

[0:56:20] Voice 5: We are.

[0:56:21] Voice 5: We are.

[0:56:22] Voice 5: But the question would be then, you are well aware that there's over 300 properties affected.

[0:56:30] Voice 5: Why do those property owners not know?

[0:56:33] Voice 5: The letters are coming out.

[0:56:35] Voice 5: Not in the first.

[0:56:37] Voice 5: It was owned out of property.

[0:56:41] Voice 6: because we had a previous meeting and people brought it up so that's why we expanded the

[0:56:47] Voice 6: notification area so you spoke we heard and we've expanded notifications it's

[0:56:56] Voice 5: very important for

[0:56:57] Voice 5: the trustees to understand that a five thousand dollar set is affecting millions of dollars here

[0:57:05] Voice 5: the properties and there's a bunch of evidence that you've received from the magic with property

[0:57:10] Voice 5: society contrary it says eagles are thriving and

[0:57:15] Voice 11: that and that they live well amongst people and

[0:57:18] Voice 11: especially in the denser

[0:57:20] Voice 5: area like magic lake these these uh radiuses and the time duration

[0:57:26] Voice 5: is so severe an impact on property i really wish you would consider

[0:57:32] Voice 5: You're also

[0:57:33] Voice 9: reading it as the letter that this is the letter of the law, right?

[0:57:39] Voice 9: Isn't that what it says?

[0:57:40] Voice 9: No.

[0:57:42] Voice 9: You've missed the whole point of why these bylaws even exist.

[0:57:48] Voice 9: It's just a check and balance to have the conversation about the effect that what you want to do on your property

[0:57:57] Voice 9: is going to have on the environment on or surrounding the property.

[0:58:04] Voice 9: that's what that's that's what these these development permit areas are about well i would

[0:58:11] Voice 9: suggest perhaps that

[0:58:13] Voice 5: maybe some of that conversation flexibility adaptability language gets put into

[0:58:19] Voice 5: this because there's articles there's that flex to you on the website people are basically saying

[0:58:25] Voice 5: you've sterilized my property it's worthless i didn't

[0:58:29] Voice 6: say that to you but people are saying

[0:58:30] Voice 6: But I think it's important to focus on the word development permit.

[0:58:34] Voice 6: It is a permit to develop.

[0:58:37] Voice 6: These are not do not build areas.

[0:58:40] Voice 6: These are development permit areas.

[0:58:42] Voice 6: So by the pure interpretation of what the wording is on the file,

[0:58:49] Voice 6: it is a permit to develop.

[0:58:51] Voice 6: And what it's doing is putting in a box.

[0:58:55] Voice 6: These are what you have to take in order to get your permit to develop.

[0:58:59] Voice 6: But

[0:58:59] Voice 5: the concern you're hearing from people is that in the situation we are in right now, 30-metre radius, people are living, developing and doing their thing.

[0:59:12] Voice 5: And I think you're hearing from people that they are terrified that all of a sudden there's going to be all kinds of extra costs imposed, extra time.

[0:59:20] Voice 5: You won't be able to construct during the building season.

[0:59:23] Voice 5: That's what the box looks like.

[0:59:26] Voice 5: Now maybe you can relax that, and there's ways around that, but I would strongly urge you to

[0:59:33] Voice 5: soften that

[0:59:34] Voice 9: somehow, because people are very concerned. I'm very concerned.

[0:59:38] Voice 6: But then again, that's why we're here. We're mid-process. This is not,

[0:59:42] Voice 6: we're having a meeting tomorrow and we're adopting these guidelines. We put the stuff out,

[0:59:47] Voice 6: we're collecting the feedback, we're informing more and more. The 300 letters are going out to

[0:59:52] Voice 6: every affected product that is based on community feedback and so he said nobody's going to be

[0:59:59] Voice 6: unaware

[1:00:00] least can be sort of muted or not given the opportunity to get the feedback and all of this

[1:00:04] will be the final decision

[1:00:07] Voice 6: but we're not there yet anyway i'm trustee morrison who's very patiently

[1:00:10] Voice 6: had her hand up so hello to her thank

[1:00:13] Voice 1: you um just to a point that was brought up earlier i just want

[1:00:17] Voice 1: to like do a little correction so um and this is like a you know something that we can incorporate

[1:00:25] Voice 1: in ongoing communications and in conversations for the next couple months as we kind of finalize

[1:00:30] Voice 1: what the bylaw might look like. But there are multiple parts of the provincial raptor's nest

[1:00:37] Voice 1: guidance. So one is what the person there said about retaining existing natural habitats suitable

[1:00:46] Voice 1: for raptors. But there is another point in the guidance that says strive to retain, restore,

[1:00:52] Voice 1: and enhance key habitat features for raptors so that no net loss of habitat occurs.

[1:00:59] Voice 1: And so while you're right that the Wildlife Act specifically doesn't say or the Species

[1:01:05] Voice 1: at Risk Act don't say that there's protection for unoccupied nests, that doesn't mean that

[1:01:13] Voice 1: the Islands Trust Act doesn't cover the idea of restoration of natural habitat, okay?

[1:01:20] Voice 1: OK, because the Islands Trust Act is also a piece of provincial legislation which allows us to think about how we are living in community and working with this.

[1:01:30] Voice 1: And again, like we're not saying in the whatever the language is in community around sterilizing lots.

[1:01:37] Voice 1: It's just simply wrong because this is not about saying you can't do anything in a development permit area.

[1:01:45] Voice 1: area it says that you need to be cautious and meet the broader community goals of protecting

[1:01:52] Voice 1: our environmental components that we all care about in the space um and and also just to the

[1:01:58] Voice 1: comments around process i think we need to to sort of stop in the general process um comments

[1:02:06] Voice 1: because that's what we're doing like everybody's been saying we're in the process um and so i read

[1:02:13] Voice 1: the information from the magic lake homeowners association it is one piece of information that

[1:02:18] Voice 1: i take with all of the other information pieces of information um the magic lake homeowners

[1:02:23] Voice 1: association doesn't speak for all magic lake homeowners because like i lived in magic lake

[1:02:30] Voice 1: and i did not get regular communications and asks about like what you're saying around

[1:02:36] Voice 1: environmental protection your trustees speak for you on that so communicate directly with trustees

[1:02:41] Voice 1: if you are one of those property owners who has a concern about any tree and let's have that

[1:02:47] Voice 1: conversation directly let's walk your property let's think about what we need to do to be able

[1:02:51] Voice 1: to make sure that the final maps that go in as schedules work for everyone in community and

[1:02:56] Voice 1: that's literally the process to like make this work um in terms of the softening the the i'm

[1:03:04] Voice 1: sorry i can't remember how you said it exactly but um like softening the rules about costs or

[1:03:10] Voice 1: or building windows, or all of those things. You know, living in the trust area is not like

[1:03:16] Voice 1: living in any other area. It is a unique amenities space. And as a result, like you have to take into

[1:03:23] Voice 1: account the advance notice you need to be able to put in permits related to protecting the

[1:03:28] Voice 1: environment in the space. It is not about the environment again, versus humans, like we're

[1:03:34] Voice 1: living here, we're doing those things. Okay. So it's about how you just have to do some advanced

[1:03:39] Voice 1: planning and if you want to be building in a certain window then you have to advance plan

[1:03:44] Voice 1: around the things on your property in your space um and that's just the nature of living in the

[1:03:50] Voice 1: trust area i'm

[1:03:54] Voice 10: just curious um if you're buying

[1:03:57] Voice 11: property on the island or if you're selling

[1:04:00] Voice 11: property are the realtors aware of what's going on or do they have to tell potential buyers or

[1:04:08] Voice 11: if you're it doesn't affect me but you're selling a home do you have oh okay no

[1:04:15] Voice 1: no i i'd love to

[1:04:16] Voice 1: actually lean into that question that's a really great question so i have talked with multiple

[1:04:21] Voice 1: realtors about that issue over the years um because we've had people who have bought property

[1:04:27] Voice 1: without realizing that they were you know in the trust area and whatever so my answer to that would

[1:04:33] Voice 1: would be all of the ethical realtors on the island are very clear communicate clearly the issues

[1:04:39] Voice 1: about the trust and like provide information about the trust with sales of property not all

[1:04:45] Voice 1: realtors do that um as i would love it to actually be a required statement but i believe it is not

[1:04:52] Voice 1: and i don't know if brad knows that or if others know that but i don't believe it's a required

[1:04:58] Voice 1: i don't know exactly what the legal requirements on that are it is conversations i had years

[1:05:03] Voice 1: ago but i frankly sorry i just can't remember the details at the moment about what the the legal

[1:05:08] Voice 1: sort of stance on if it had to be included in the sale they

[1:05:12] Voice 2: don't have a duty to know all about the

[1:05:14] Voice 2: rules and regulations in their community that's up to the buyer or the seller i'll give you another

[1:05:20] Voice 2: example that was shocking when i moved here um there's registered in the provincial archaeological

[1:05:29] Voice 2: some number on part of the shoreline on Ricky Bay, and it's not on your property register.

[1:05:38] Voice 2: It's not registered with Islands Trust.

[1:05:40] Voice 2: But when you want to go and do something on your property, then you find out, especially

[1:05:46] Voice 2: if you're dealing with the province, as we were in the case, suddenly this comes up.

[1:05:51] Voice 2: and then in order to do something that's not just 100 meters away but way the heck on the next lot

[1:05:58] Voice 2: you have to get an archaeologist and they're very rare to deal with residential we've got three on

[1:06:03] Voice 2: the island none of them deal with residential you've got to pay 20 grand

[1:06:07] Voice 1: on a letter to say

[1:06:08] Voice 2: actually there's no potential means that you might disturb them you're looking way over there

[1:06:14] Voice 2: because of that registration so that's just another example i advocated that all of that

[1:06:20] Voice 2: should be on the property you should have a notice that you're bingo bingo you're under the

[1:06:26] Voice 2: auspices of violence trust and be aware there's many rules you should become familiar with but

[1:06:32] Voice 2: it is only by yourself and maybe

[1:06:37] Voice 1: just one other sorry um maybe just one other addition on that

[1:06:42] Voice 1: um i personally have walked many properties with um potential buyers who wanted to understand

[1:06:49] Voice 1: different dpa related things um and so i feel like that's totally fair game as a trustee to like have

[1:06:56] Voice 1: people um if they you know i think the planners might have like connected people with us or they

[1:07:01] Voice 1: found us on the site or whatever and you just went and some of the realtors on island have done that

[1:07:06] Voice 1: too like asked people to just connect with us and so they we could answer questions and that's been

[1:07:12] Voice 1: really really helpful just to be able to like show people like where on the property they you know

[1:07:17] Voice 1: are more likely to be able to build given the rules of a woodland dpa or something like that

[1:07:21] Voice 1: so i think those are really helpful but i'm with i think that's that was joyce who

[1:07:25] Voice 1: no who was just talking okay sorry karen um um yeah so i'm with karen that i would really love

[1:07:32] Voice 1: to think about ways we could get it registered on title so that people are like really really

[1:07:36] Voice 1: clear about the things that they're obligated under just

[1:07:40] Voice 9: to say that development areas are not okay

[1:07:46] Voice 6: But the thing is, if you do happen to list a property for sale, there's a disclosure

[1:07:53] Voice 6: report.

[1:07:55] Voice 6: And so when you list your property, you have to do that.

[1:07:58] Voice 2: Not about provincial registrations.

[1:08:00] Voice 6: Well, you're supposed to list any registrations.

[1:08:03] Voice 6: So if you know there's an archaeological site, or if you know there's a PPA...

[1:08:07] Voice 4: Sorry, I didn't look at it before.

[1:08:09] Voice 6: Yeah, I know, because literally, I'm telling you properly right now, on Salt Spring, and I know what I had to list, and I had to list the EPA.

[1:08:18] Voice 6: And

[1:08:19] Voice 2: not everybody knows some of these things. The example I gave you was outside the realm of Islands Trust, so I'm just saying it's not all just about our trustees.

[1:08:27] Voice 2: You know, there's more to it, so it's a special area, and I think we just need a general caution to the world that we're special, and you never know what you might run into.

[1:08:39] Voice 6: which which your realtor should deal with

[1:08:41] Voice 2: that

[1:08:42] Voice 10: was my thought our realtors they don't have legally

[1:08:47] Voice 10: i mean they

[1:08:49] Voice 11: don't have a job to

[1:08:50] Voice 10: address that no they do or they don't they don't they don't

[1:08:54] Voice 11: they

[1:08:54] Voice 10: don't i feel sorry for the property owners

[1:08:57] Voice 11: that end up buying and then you

[1:08:59] Voice 10: know that's too

[1:09:00] Voice 10: bad it is

[1:09:01] Voice 12: i'm glad you brought that up because i'll give you a personal example for the real estate

[1:09:07] Voice 12: agent. Many years ago, this

[1:09:10] Voice 12: happened. I knew there was an eagle nest on a particular property.

[1:09:18] Voice 12: Didn't go on the property to see it. I could see it off the property. And then all of a sudden,

[1:09:24] Voice 12: I saw a for sale sign on that property. It was a know-how to just blast. And the listing person

[1:09:30] Voice 12: lived off the island so the goodness of my heart I thought I could tell him

[1:09:37] Voice 12: because that there's an eagle nest on the property that was GPA and I didn't

[1:09:43] Voice 12: want him to go ahead and not know that sell the property and then have the new

[1:09:46] Voice 12: property owner come and sue him for not telling about this eagle nest so I told

[1:09:52] Voice 12: him on the phone I called him he basically just hung up on me he didn't

[1:09:56] Voice 12: want to hear that. And so that's just an example. I just wanted to help out. I didn't want him to

[1:10:02] Voice 12: get sued, you know, later on.

[1:10:10] Voice 5: Okay, do you have anything more to

[1:10:11] Voice 9: add? I think we've talked

[1:10:13] Voice 9: about everything. You have a bunch of referrals. Proposed next steps, continued engagement with

[1:10:24] Voice 9: property owners and others potentially affected by changes. A second letter will be mailed to

[1:10:29] Voice 9: all property owners within annual and seasonal properties as we've talked about. Further data

[1:10:36] Voice 9: collection and scroungsherthing. Staff are engaging with property owners as they come forward.

[1:10:44] Voice 9: Bringing recommendations to the LTC probably in the fall I would think with potential first reading

[1:10:52] Voice 9: of the bylaw. You'll need a public hearing because it's in a secret language and you'll also need

[1:11:00] Voice 9: administrative questions.

[1:11:08] Voice 9: So

[1:11:08] Voice 9: yes.

[1:11:14] Voice 9: Yeah,

[1:11:19] Voice 9: Jim,

[1:11:25] Voice 9: by the end of their term, which is done.

[1:11:31] Voice 2: without them having this done so

[1:11:32] Voice 9: so if it came to them say for first greeting in september they

[1:11:37] Voice 9: could have a public hearing in the fall and then uh they would be trust uh committee approval and

[1:11:44] Voice 9: then they need to send it to the ministry which can take the number of months to get approval so

[1:11:48] Voice 9: i would say that final adoption probably wouldn't be until the late winter spring

[1:12:00] Voice 9: And

[1:12:01] Voice 6: again, we're mid-process, we're not conclusive, even close to a conclusion.

[1:12:07] Voice 6: So any input is much appreciated, and it's totally, Council for Local Trust Committee

[1:12:15] Voice 6: will be doing the same, so it's not, there are no conclusions yet, so don't feel that

[1:12:23] that we're done and we're in this is 20,000

[1:12:26] better rate of stroke.

[1:12:27] And so we expect a lot of feedback

[1:12:29] from the other 300 labs.

[1:12:32] And it all

[1:12:34] Voice 6: feeds the process.

[1:12:36] Voice 6: And we move forward with the information that we get.

[1:12:40] Voice 6: So you have been heard, you will be heard.

[1:12:45] Voice 6: And we keep looking forward.

[1:12:46] Voice 5: Has anybody guessed the cost of having to hire a biologist?

[1:12:55] Voice 5: Is there some reason why the ground-treatment that's done by the Trust can't be used by

[1:13:03] Voice 5: the property owner?

[1:13:07] Voice 5: I don't understand the question.

[1:13:09] Voice 5: I think in the study it said we've done ground-treatment, is that true?

[1:13:13] Voice 9: The professional biologist, along with Mr Manning, is doing field studies, yes, and

[1:13:20] Voice 9: I have gone to particular properties where invited by a property owner to have a discussion

[1:13:26] Voice 9: or to look at the tree. So that when you go to try and develop a property you have to hire another

[1:13:36] Voice 9: biologist to do that work. You have to

[1:13:40] Voice 9: get that biologist to assess the implications of your

[1:13:45] Voice 9: development and provide a report that has recommendations for mitigating impacts to that

[1:13:54] Voice 9: raptor tree that would then become conditions within an approved permit that would say

[1:14:01] Voice 9: you can build your house but you need to do this and that and that and this to as well as

[1:14:08] Voice 9: anybody guess how much it costs to do that has anybody guessed it depends on complex your

[1:14:13] Voice 9: development see what does it somebody said that you see what you got to inform

[1:14:23] Voice 9: what is what is one of these uh biologists report typically cost

[1:14:34] Voice 9: right but you're trying to get a minor thing or a major thing the nature of your property

[1:14:47] Voice 9: it's going to take that guy probably half a day to look at it and write his report if you're

[1:14:53] Voice 9: building a house and a garage and your driveway and that's all part of your then of course that

[1:15:01] Voice 9: qualified professional is going to have to spend more time assessing that does that make sense

[1:15:07] Voice 9: it does but i'm trying to assess the cumulative effect on i would say probably a minimum of a

[1:15:14] Voice 9: couple thousand dollars and probably a maximum of i don't know ten or fifteen thousand dollars to

[1:15:19] Voice 9: so i

[1:15:24] Voice 1: i can go

[1:15:25] Voice 6: ahead so i

[1:15:26] Voice 1: had to have a professional wasn't a biologist it was a different

[1:15:33] Voice 1: profession and I forgot now which one it was but I had to have an assessment on my property because

[1:15:39] Voice 1: of riparian dpa and it was three thousand dollars so just so you you can understand that it varies

[1:15:47] Voice 1: depending on what's the nature of development and in that context our house was outside the

[1:15:53] Voice 1: development area but there was potentially some I think it was a shed or a trail kind of down

[1:16:02] Voice 1: toward the water and there was a dock because it's on it was on buck lake so that was in it so that

[1:16:07] Voice 1: was like the pieces that needed and the construction of the house because the slope of the land was

[1:16:12] Voice 1: also so anyway there's different factors depending on what the development is like like um brad is

[1:16:17] Voice 1: saying um but it'll vary and the good news is pender has um several registered biologists so

[1:16:23] Voice 1: we don't necessarily have to pull people on from off island it's when you have off island biologists

[1:16:27] Voice 1: it can get much more expensive.

[1:16:31] Voice 9: Once all these letters are received and read and summarized,

[1:16:34] Voice 9: will we be getting a summary of those results? Does it all come part of the package?

[1:16:44] Voice 10: Yeah,

[1:16:45] Voice 9: all the letters received become public and they're posted online. So all the

[1:16:52] Voice 9: individual letters about other individual concerns or product insights will all become public record

[1:16:59] Voice 9: record, and they're all posted on the project webpage. Yeah, so they're all managed to make

[1:17:05] Voice 9: what I do believe it is. Yeah.

[1:17:08] Voice 9: Just one technical question on the list. Where are you getting the data system?

[1:17:14] Voice 9: In terms of...

[1:17:18] Voice 9: You're going to send these letters out, so you've got to figure people's addresses.

[1:17:22] Voice 9: What sources do you use to find those addresses?

[1:17:26] Voice 9: Probably, I don't know exactly

[1:17:27] Voice 5: where...

[1:17:28] Voice 9: the reason i bring that

[1:17:29] Voice 9: up is a lot of people let me there's almost those land title office

[1:17:34] Voice 9: the lawyer doesn't have no idea about their new place their old place so it would be their their

[1:17:40] Voice 9: primary residence but the principal is i owe my lunch for a couple of years

[1:17:46] Voice 9: when i graduate my house i don't want to address i just put up with my old one or

[1:17:57] Voice 9: new one. So it's a it's a practical thing. So I think

[1:18:01] Voice 9: typically we do a mail drop, which is just a drop in the

[1:18:05] Voice 9: mailbox. That's great. And that then doesn't have us assign an

[1:18:12] Voice 9: address. And that was great. It's way way less. It's like 30

[1:18:15] Voice 9: cents a page versus like a dollar. So that's the approach

[1:18:19] Voice 9: that would be taken is there would be well not in this

[1:18:22] Voice 9: basically but

[1:18:25] Voice 6: i would i would the printer that addressing database really

[1:18:30] Voice 4: really

[1:18:31] Voice 6: outdated and

[1:18:32] Voice 6: so basically if you get an assessment notice that that's that's where it's just going to use that

[1:18:38] Voice 6: that's where they would so

[1:18:41] Voice 9: i don't know the exact answer so i would think the last part

[1:18:43] Voice 9: and

[1:18:44] Voice 5: is there criteria on who gets a notice like let's say the radius

[1:19:02] Voice 1: I was thinking that for folks who were non-resident property owners, I think we might have asked

[1:19:10] Voice 1: for a different form of mail out just so that it went to the direct mail to their property

[1:19:15] Voice 1: because we have had problems with mail drops in the past.

[1:19:18] Voice 1: it wouldn't

[1:19:19] Voice 9: be a mail drop i was incorrect because we're not sending it to all addresses

[1:19:22] Voice 9: it would it would be right

[1:19:23] Voice 1: that's right yeah i

[1:19:25] Voice 9: was thinking of like a more general

[1:19:27] Voice 9: but yeah you're right

[1:19:28] Voice 9: specific yeah and

[1:19:33] Voice 1: that that's right that's i remember that now because

[1:19:35] Voice 1: because that does catch folks that are their permanent address is not their place on pender

[1:19:41] Voice 1: because there's a certain percentage of people that just have summer cabins but they would be

[1:19:44] Voice 1: notified to through this process that's

[1:19:47] Voice 9: the list is generated by now okay okay good

[1:19:52] Voice 6: enough we move

[1:19:53] Voice 6: on okay so all right so what we're doing with bus service a 15-minute break schedule then um so if

[1:20:01] Voice 6: that works we'll we'll reconfigure the room to the next part of the chapter yes

[1:20:06] Voice 2: and then what is the

[1:20:07] Voice 2: next what's the balance of the afternoon so we just we can be selected if necessary well it's

[1:20:12] Voice 6: So how does it keep access

[1:20:13] Voice 9: and affordability?

[1:20:16] Voice 9: That's the only other thing.

[1:20:17] Voice 9: I'm just going to present again and walk through the plan and the goals,

[1:20:21] Voice 9: objectives, and actions,

[1:20:22] Voice 9: and then the community can have whatever discussion around that.

[1:20:25] Voice 10: Thanks for

[1:20:26] Voice 9: this conversation.

[1:20:31] Voice 1: David, just so you know,

[1:20:32] Voice 1: I have about an hour before I have to go for the session.

[1:20:35] Voice 1: So I'll be here as long as I can.

[1:20:37] Voice 6: Yeah.

[1:20:37] Voice 6: I think that's probably going to capture probably accurately how long it's

[1:20:40] Voice 6: going to be.

[1:20:41] Voice 6: All right.

[1:29:17] Voice 4: so

[1:29:18] Voice 6: we'll just wait for the recording to come back up now

[1:29:24] Voice 2: we're going to get human nests

[1:29:25] Voice 2: on your way right

[1:29:29] Voice 7: yeah anybody want to argue right now

[1:29:36] Voice 3: all

[1:29:37] Voice 6: right so myself

[1:29:38] Voice 3: so

[1:29:41] Voice 6: planners that we have housing access for the building project

[1:29:46] Voice 2: yes gentlemen so happy meeting

[1:29:54] Voice 9: tyler smith is bringing up because they can make more than this

[1:30:25] Voice 11: Yeah,

[1:30:41] Voice 10: you know where they, now

[1:30:43] Voice 9: we all know where it is.

[1:30:46] Voice 9: So special meeting on housing.

[1:30:51] Voice 9: So just going to quickly talk about front-end information, trust-wide rules and processes,

[1:30:59] Voice 9: just a brief re-overview of that, some law that's been covered, talk about the housing

[1:31:05] Voice 9: project status, and then walk through the housing action plan. I think that's probably the vision

[1:31:10] Voice 9: that you guys had last week. Obviously hoping for more people here to provide some input on

[1:31:16] Voice 9: that action plan but it seems like we've nailed it

[1:31:38] Voice 9: trust council is prioritizing housing uh the regional planning committee has a wide range

[1:31:44] Voice 9: of housing projects going across the trust area. Lots of work going on and lots of different LTCs

[1:31:50] Voice 9: just like on the Pender here are taking up individual housing projects as the crisis

[1:31:57] Voice 9: continues to be a concern. And so there is a broader housing strategy of the Islands Trust

[1:32:03] Voice 9: all feeding back into these local LTC programs and initiatives. Lots of work

[1:32:10] Voice 9: going on across

[1:32:11] Voice 9: across the trust area and other levels of government.

[1:32:20] Voice 9: Not gonna get into detail,

[1:32:22] Voice 9: but just to know that there is a detailed strategy

[1:32:26] Voice 9: with associated goals and objectives for that area.

[1:32:31] Voice 9: So they've developed a housing toolkit,

[1:32:33] Voice 9: the

[1:32:33] Voice 10: regional planning team,

[1:32:34] Voice 9: process templates, background information,

[1:32:37] Voice 9: mapping tools, action planning strategy templates.

[1:32:40] Voice 9: A lot of that work has been into the trustees.

[1:32:45] Voice 9: The housing toolkit is designed to help focus the LTC discussion for our templates and action

[1:32:54] Voice 9: plans, business case, and building consistency efficiency across the LTC housing projects.

[1:33:02] Voice 9: It's always evolving.

[1:33:04] Voice 9: North Pender housing needs, lots of studies, all of that work, LCP has a number of provisions

[1:33:13] Voice 9: around housing.

[1:33:14] Voice 9: housing. Again, I'm not going to get into too much detail.

[1:33:18] Voice 9: It's most, I assume,

[1:33:20] Voice 5: all of this.

[1:33:21] Voice 9: It does have

[1:33:22] Voice 9: affordable housing policies. Of course, this project

[1:33:26] Voice 9: can look at all of those different policies with respect

[1:33:30] Voice 9: to housing, broaden some of those policies or

[1:33:35] Voice 9: create new policies to enable more flexible

[1:33:38] Voice 9: zoning, for example. That number of

[1:33:42] Voice 9: land use bylaw provisions

[1:33:43] Voice 9: that are nested under the regulations,

[1:33:46] Voice 9: or in the secondary suite provisions,

[1:33:47] Voice 9: community housing zones, rental housing zones,

[1:33:51] Voice 9: which really aren't very well taken up on the loans.

[1:33:56] Voice 9: This is a project going since 2023.

[1:34:04] Voice 9: Smooth moving into phase two.

[1:34:07] Voice 9: Bunch of deliverables there.

[1:34:10] Voice 9: Almost a lot of it's done,

[1:34:11] Voice 9: and we're down in development of the housing action plan,

[1:34:17] Voice 9: We are here, so now in phase three, just moving into OTC review of draft bylaws and housing

[1:34:28] Voice 9: action plan.

[1:34:29] Voice 9: Just starting to work.

[1:34:31] Voice 9: The housing toolkit is kind of form the basis for our draft housing action plan, which is

[1:34:42] Voice 9: out with the gain goals.

[1:34:45] Voice 9: So the draft action plan here has been informed by our housing needs survey results, which

[1:34:52] Voice 9: federal report any new responses. Four CIMs, additional community group and other stakeholder

[1:34:57] Voice 9: meetings. Lots of great work done by the UPC. Two recommendations reports submitted and several

[1:35:04] Voice 9: public meetings held. The action plan focused on five key goals with associated objectives and

[1:35:11] Voice 9: actions and the planned actions are intended to be realistic and achievable at least to the scoping

[1:35:16] Voice 9: stage within the current OTC term. So at least by the scoping stage we kind of looked at maybe a

[1:35:22] Voice 9: My own isn't appropriate areas, but we've gone through that deliberation on multiple transactions.

[1:35:29] Voice 9: Next steps, continue to engage the community, bring the plan back to your community for

[1:35:35] Voice 9: final endorsement, begin planning the implementation. We would send a letter actually,

[1:35:40] Voice 9: that's where I have a blanked letter in my head. We'd send a letter to all the households,

[1:35:44] Voice 9: start hopefully to generate some interest in this work. Hopefully the land suitability analysis and

[1:35:51] Voice 9: building analysis, which we talked about a bit, that they would see would be two really important

[1:35:56] Voice 9: pillars of information that will help with a lot of the other work, continue to engage

[1:36:03] Voice 9: your really effective agency members, and to work more closely with their stations.

[1:36:28] Voice 9: There's a key slide. It was there as I was on the ferry riding.

[1:36:35] Voice 9: I can be honest with this group, I think.

[1:36:39] Voice 9: Candidate.

[1:36:40] Voice 2: Candidate. You're always honest.

[1:36:42] Voice 9: Yeah. So there's the five goals that we've landed on.

[1:36:47] Voice 9: So updating and using available data to inform our projects,

[1:36:51] Voice 9: the diversified housing options through zoning,

[1:36:55] Voice 9: recent opportunities for nonprofit housing,

[1:36:58] Voice 9: recent community education and outreach, incorporating First Nations interests.

[1:37:05] Voice 9: Under each goal there's associative objectives and actions, or trying to inform those actions.

[1:37:15] Voice 5: This was this

[1:37:21] Voice 9: handy table which basically describes the goals, each of the actions,

[1:37:27] Voice 9: and then of course timelines.

[1:37:33] Voice 9: This

[1:37:33] Voice 2: was in the materials for the meeting.

[1:37:37] Voice 9: that's correct yeah this was part this was presented as part of it yeah and the staff

[1:37:43] Voice 9: report just was presented as just a first crack for them to see to have any review and comments

[1:37:50] Voice 9: which they did so and now really hoping ideally you'd have 60 people here and they would all be

[1:37:58] Voice 9: having a meaningful meaningful conversation about these actions about to facilitate how do you get

[1:38:05] Voice 9: there i'm not sure and so one of the goals really in here is like how do you generate more

[1:38:09] Voice 9: uh so one of the things early on in the project will be to get a letter to all of your households

[1:38:16] Voice 9: to these things from my law posing is a concern there's ways you can involve for example and

[1:38:24] Voice 9: pointing them to the study when you get into the study and um

[1:38:32] Voice 9: Yeah, pointing to this and trying to get more of your public to see themselves somewhere in it.

[1:38:39] Voice 9: Were

[1:38:39] Voice 2: you happy with the response to the survey?

[1:38:45] Voice 2: Yeah, that

[1:38:46] Voice 9: was a fantastic. So

[1:38:48] Voice 9: there are people out there that are interested, that's

[1:38:51] Voice 9: what that means.

[1:38:52] Voice 9: yeah it's just how do you i mean i don't go to local government meetings if i do you know there's

[1:38:59] Voice 9: lots of things that that are important to me so how do you get more people

[1:39:09] Voice 2: so i just want to step back from it um so with this plan in place once the plan is approved in

[1:39:18] Voice 2: place it's a framework then for us uh investors um tax on non-profit opportunities to then build

[1:39:27] Voice 2: you know to find the multi-mental development or to have multi-developments right it's the

[1:39:34] Voice 2: framework to make it attractive and focus on what we need this and this and this but then we need

[1:39:40] Voice 2: to go and find players who will provide that housing sort

[1:39:45] Voice 9: of the chicken and the egg yeah

[1:39:47] Voice 2: yeah for

[1:39:48] Voice 10: sure and

[1:39:49] Voice 9: in in prior to starting this um there was discussion about um expansion of

[1:39:58] Voice 9: country court yes right and there was ongoing sort of conversation kind of saying like well

[1:40:07] Voice 9: we could do more and we just knew where we could do it yes we don't have the ability to do to do it

[1:40:15] Voice 9: but we do have the ability to figure this part of it out and say this would be a great place to do

[1:40:22] Voice 9: this would be a great place to do it or you know we'd be the community or the would be amicable to

[1:40:30] Voice 9: this being a good area there's water here the church yeah there's and and and but at the end

[1:40:40] Voice 9: of the day we're still not building any houses right

[1:40:44] Voice 2: that's why we have a framework now that

[1:40:47] Voice 2: can provide focus on our needs and where it's appropriate and the kinds of housing that's

[1:40:57] Voice 2: just

[1:40:57] Voice 11: stepping back before we can even get more focused we need those studies

[1:41:04] Voice 11: the

[1:41:04] Voice 9: the slant student

[1:41:05] Voice 11: yes

[1:41:06] Voice 9: those will help to

[1:41:09] Voice 4: identify where

[1:41:19] Voice 1: yeah and so just to add on to what Karen's saying um the idea so like some of the things we've heard

[1:41:25] Voice 1: over the past and I've seen on other islands too as trustees have talked about is um like for

[1:41:31] Voice 1: instance you can't apply for some of the granting programs or some of the like um loans or different

[1:41:36] Voice 1: types of things until you have your zoning in place and if the zoning isn't in place then it's

[1:41:40] Voice 1: this uncertainty that you just can't take advantage of some of these programs as they arise

[1:41:44] Voice 1: so the goal of this program or this project is to get that zoning in place across the island in

[1:41:50] Voice 1: different ways that are agreed to by the community so it's very clear and easier to go after funding

[1:41:56] Voice 1: for affordable efforts or for community housing projects or whatever however we decide to make

[1:42:02] Voice 1: that be in our community um so it gives really a lot of clarity um one other thing just so you

[1:42:08] Voice 1: you know today there was motion put on the table and it was voted forward from AVIC and I think

[1:42:13] Voice 1: you'll see this at UBCM too for the province to change the rules around or just to like refine

[1:42:22] Voice 1: the rules in the space between tiny homes RVs and the building code so to get some clarity on

[1:42:32] Voice 1: what is like safe and adequate housing but that could be an rv classification so that we can

[1:42:39] Voice 1: actually have safe tiny homes legally permitted right and and that's not for us to decide in terms

[1:42:48] Voice 1: of like what is the building code necessarily but what we want to do is we want to be able to say

[1:42:53] Voice 1: anything that meets the building code could be here right and we could say like the building

[1:42:58] Voice 1: code designation for this new RV tiny home status that is safe, can be zoned in this

[1:43:04] Voice 1: area in this way, right?

[1:43:06] Voice 1: So hopefully those things are moving at a pace to keep up with what we're doing or that

[1:43:10] Voice 1: we can kind of advance, sort of think about them, because that would help us with some

[1:43:15] Voice 1: of the RV questions we have.

[1:43:17] Voice 9: Just to add, like, we're taking approaches around flexible zoning.

[1:43:21] Voice 9: So through the tools that the Trust have, which is really nice in zoning, for example,

[1:43:27] Voice 9: could you could we rezone a portion of the Anglican church lands that they are amenable to

[1:43:34] Voice 9: providing for formal housing so that that zoning is done even so it's project ready in a sense

[1:43:41] Voice 9: from a rural zoning perspective or with around flexible zoning can you create a bylaw that says

[1:43:48] Voice 9: you know for in exchange for reducing the maximum floor area of your primary dwelling you get

[1:43:55] Voice 9: another accessory dwelling and so it starts to create some more flexibility around not just

[1:44:05] Voice 9: one big house and one small cottage and you have one kind of medium-sized house and two small

[1:44:12] Voice 9: projects sort of those kinds of things are all trusty stuff so since there's not too

[1:44:20] Voice 7: many in the

[1:44:26] Voice 8: Okay, well, it's one of the opportunities. You know, there's already approved expansion

[1:44:37] Voice 8: of country car. They can't find them to do it. So what's, what's the point of finding

[1:44:45] Voice 8: another piece of property where you've been building so

[1:44:49] Voice 9: how are we going to answer that

[1:44:52] Voice 9: i would answer that by saying with water there is water it limits

[1:45:01] Voice 9: i

[1:45:02] Voice 8: would also

[1:45:03] Voice 9: say that you're right that one of the goals is to engage with communities to try to

[1:45:09] Voice 9: increase community participation in those kinds of projects and that fulfilling six

[1:45:17] Voice 9: No, no, but I mean, it's really funny. Yeah.

[1:45:23] Voice 8: Where's the groundswell of

[1:45:28] Voice 8: a provincial

[1:45:29] Voice 2: and a federal initiatives for housing, you know, housing tariffs, it's on

[1:45:35] Voice 2: the agenda. So there's going to be money for that kind of projects, not

[1:45:39] Voice 11: because it's the

[1:45:41] Voice 11: The funding is for bigger projects, and what they've run into is that nobody's interested in funding a small project of six units.

[1:45:52] Voice 11: And the other thing is, for some reason, BC Housing is insisting that they pay market rates for the rents.

[1:46:04] Voice 11: Which is not affordable housing.

[1:46:06] Voice 11: Which is not affordable housing.

[1:46:07] Voice 11: So they've had to increase the amount that they're charging to reflect the market rates.

[1:46:14] Voice 11: So there's barriers to doing small projects that are appropriate for the island.

[1:46:25] Voice 8: All we can do is explore and zone it, so something will happen.

[1:46:31] Voice 11: Yeah, and use the water

[1:46:32] Voice 7: and all that.

[1:46:33] Voice 7: yeah and

[1:46:41] Voice 1: and just so you know i've had conversations in the last four years ish

[1:46:45] Voice 1: maybe five years ish with different folks who um were not necessarily going for external funding

[1:46:52] Voice 1: we're thinking about internal pender like generated resourcing for different kinds of

[1:46:58] Voice 1: housing efforts but the zoning was a tension for them they didn't want to go too far down the path

[1:47:04] Voice 1: until the zoning was like in the place right because the zoning is the certainty to be able

[1:47:09] Voice 1: to go forward with all the other expenses related to housing projects of like you know proof of

[1:47:14] Voice 1: water and like you know the building sort of whatever you need related to that and so yeah

[1:47:21] Voice 1: I do think that this sort of creates the sort of fertile soil that we want to see for different

[1:47:27] Voice 1: different kinds of housing efforts. And then we can kind of, you know, we can also advocate to

[1:47:33] Voice 1: government to provincial government for more of these rural projects. But it's hard to do that

[1:47:37] Voice 1: until we have our own house in order, and that we know we have the right sort of zoning landscape

[1:47:42] Voice 1: to be able to enable those things, right. But we'd be on there are lots of rural communities

[1:47:48] Voice 1: that are wanting to work with the provincial government housing efforts to think about what

[1:47:53] Voice 1: What does rural housing look like in rural affordability?

[1:47:57] Voice 7: Mr. Pench, go ahead.

[1:47:59] Voice 1: Yeah.

[1:48:00] Voice 7: I have been doing housing for all my

[1:48:02] Voice 9: professional career, which is unfortunately 50 years.

[1:48:06] Voice 9: I've been working on this for a couple of years.

[1:48:09] Voice 9: Where do the houses go?

[1:48:11] Voice 5: Well, I'm very,

[1:48:12] Voice 9: I'm a little

[1:48:15] Voice 9: pensionated right now.

[1:48:18] Voice 9: But my analysis is government funding generally won't touch this.

[1:48:27] Voice 9: It's a waste of friggin' time, which is evidenced by the fact that Salt Spring's not a bad

[1:48:35] Voice 9: area.

[1:48:36] Voice 9: They're trying to get one in Galley Green and stuff, but still, the reality is they're

[1:48:41] Voice 9: not interested.

[1:48:43] Voice 9: Well,

[1:48:44] Voice 2: I didn't know what.

[1:48:45] Voice 2: Times have changed in the prairie where these teams live.

[1:48:47] Voice 2: Anyway, what's your point?

[1:48:48] Voice 2: Well,

[1:48:49] Voice 5: my point is that the

[1:48:52] Voice 9: cost of everything else, you're not going to get affordable housing

[1:48:55] Voice 9: unless you go outside the box.

[1:48:57] Voice 9: And I've been advocating doing RVs or tiny homes because they're affordable and you can

[1:49:04] Voice 9: get them going quickly.

[1:49:07] Voice 9: And there's probably 50 easily right now in the Southern Gulf Islands, way more of a salt

[1:49:14] Voice 9: spring but they're all underground because there's no real rules to me they work um and so it's not

[1:49:24] Voice 9: so they don't work and so we need just to uh get the trust to acknowledge that okay there's a whole

[1:49:32] Voice 9: couple services let's let's approve them for there's some other fire safety things but let's

[1:49:37] Voice 9: take a mandate to try and do this okay

[1:49:40] Voice 2: i was going to say isn't that committee working on yeah

[1:49:44] Voice 5: what i'm saying that there's all this discussion about trying to do it i think the focus should

[1:49:51] Voice 5: be on that because it's constant or so ridiculous otherwise but that's the only way that in my

[1:49:58] Voice 5: experience you can do it but

[1:50:00] Voice 6: i would say it's a correct or i must trust it's a both avicc and

[1:50:04] Voice 6: in UBCM we have been strongly advocating we've been putting motion for it I don't trustee

[1:50:10] Voice 6: Morrison that motion that was today I think that was from the trust was not uh

[1:50:15] Voice 1: no it was from

[1:50:17] Voice 1: it was no it was from another community Ladysmith I want to say Langford no I think it might have

[1:50:24] Voice 1: been Langford actually I

[1:50:26] Voice 6: know that um but

[1:50:28] Voice 1: I know the trust with their

[1:50:29] Voice 6: own uh racial

[1:50:31] Voice 6: district of niagara i thought there was a motion coming forward so there might be something

[1:50:36] Voice 6: subsequently coming forward this weekend the trust has been really like tiny homes rbs compost and

[1:50:42] Voice 6: toilets all that have been really high on our room it's

[1:50:47] Voice 9: just important to separate rbs that are like

[1:50:50] Voice 9: not certified for year-round use that's a real challenge of course as you know when you hear

[1:50:55] Voice 9: tiny homes on wheels certified for year-round use it does seem like they're getting closer to

[1:51:00] Voice 9: inspection you know as long as it's strapped down or it's connected

[1:51:04] Voice 7: with the miles

[1:51:05] Voice 9: but the question i have is like are you talking about like tiny homes like a tiny home village

[1:51:14] Voice 9: where it's over it's

[1:51:16] Voice 4: serviced out and

[1:51:17] Voice 9: then or like a manufactured home village well at mrb

[1:51:23] Voice 9: The whole issue that they're not approved full-time living, why is the fact that 50,000

[1:51:30] Voice 9: are being used?

[1:51:31] Voice 9: A hundred percent.

[1:51:32] Voice 9: The liability is the challenge for a little

[1:51:34] Voice 4: brother and sister.

[1:51:35] Voice 1: I think those

[1:51:36] Voice 9: things can be a serious push, saying, I want to have them get these seats.

[1:51:42] Because I was just involved with another report from the CRD that

[1:51:47] Voice 9: outlines all the technical

[1:51:49] Voice 9: aspects.

[1:51:49] Voice 9: the services, all the things, setbacks, all the things the trust wants to be aware of.

[1:51:57] Voice 9: And that, if we can look at that, and because like Bain has punched them, and they're, other

[1:52:05] than the chairs, but he's

[1:52:06] Voice 9: not even in them.

[1:52:09] Voice 9: So I think it's,

[1:52:10] Voice 9: what we need is a yes, subject to these kind of safety sensible things, let's

[1:52:18] Voice 9: That's what

[1:52:19] Voice 9: we're working on.

[1:52:20] Voice 9: I'm giving you number 8.

[1:52:22] Voice 9: Yeah.

[1:52:22] Voice 9: I was

[1:52:24] Voice 3: eating a sandwich.

[1:52:26] Voice 3: Yeah.

[1:52:29] Voice 9: This is

[1:52:30] Voice 9: in caps.

[1:52:32] Voice 9: So it must be a must

[1:52:34] Voice 9: unfortunately.

[1:52:43] So the, you know,

[1:52:45] I heard that

[1:52:54] Voice 9: So, well, and it may have our guests. Yeah, because we, we, the one, the one

[1:53:03] Voice 9: Example that he had on the header of someone doing it. That would be to come in the day asking by the trust can cancel.

[1:53:15] back up um

[1:53:17] Voice 9: i said you know first person i would talk to this was at the crd

[1:53:23] Voice 9: dr justine started that she is a pretty good um grasp on it and she was the one that came

[1:53:30] Voice 9: and presented to us about the separate 47 right it's the problem so well there's yeah so there's

[1:53:40] Voice 9: there's two pieces but that could also be because and and this was the conversation i was having

[1:53:45] Voice 9: with the gentleman is what is the where was that money coming from federal federal money that was

[1:53:51] Voice 9: coming to the province to redirect and when the rent drops for an election did they just put a

[1:53:58] Voice 9: pause on everything. They say pause everything for 30 days.

[1:54:02] Voice 9: I would

[1:54:03] Voice 9: but I don't know.

[1:54:10] Voice 8: place and people in certain data on people actually take advantage

[1:54:17] Voice 8: of that. Or is it just all winter? Nobody wants to build

[1:54:21] Voice 8: it. They don't want to be the landlord. If that was the case,

[1:54:26] Voice 8: You know, how can we actually, even if money can't do it, what can we do as a trust to

[1:54:35] Voice 9: make it work?

[1:54:36] Voice 9: We can only present the ability to do it.

[1:54:41] Voice 9: That's all we really can, and we've talked about it.

[1:54:45] Voice 9: I got a bit of crap from a resident in the fall for saying that we don't have the same need here.

[1:54:56] Voice 9: that I have seen on other islands.

[1:54:59] Voice 9: When we had the meeting on Salisbury

[1:55:02] Voice 9: and a few of the trustees got to go out behind

[1:55:06] Voice 9: Kentucky Grocery and see the lineup of trailers

[1:55:10] Voice 9: that were there where people were living

[1:55:13] Voice 9: and then take it down to the one campground

[1:55:16] Voice 9: where people were being forced to leave every 28 days

[1:55:20] Voice 9: with their trailer and get a ferry receipt

[1:55:23] Voice 9: seat and then come back again and park in a new spot so that they could stay within the letter of

[1:55:28] Voice 9: the law but have somewhere to

[1:55:29] Voice 9: live and bad power bad septic bad water we don't we aren't experiencing

[1:55:37] Voice 9: that here yet and so they so the idea has been that all of this is going on in other islands and

[1:55:45] Voice 9: there's a pile of manpower being put into it and we can we can go at it now pro kind of proactively

[1:55:56] Voice 9: and have it ready so that hopefully as the need does but great i think i think it was for dad

[1:56:05] Voice 9: in the previous term when they they allowed the secondary seats in magic lake and one or two got

[1:56:12] Voice 9: got built? I think two?

[1:56:14] Voice 1: I think it was only one.

[1:56:16] Voice 9: And then we had one person with the granting

[1:56:20] Voice 9: that decided to try to take advantage of it. And I'm not even sure if they're going to be

[1:56:25] Voice 9: successful at the end, but they built the secondary suite. And we approved the variance

[1:56:32] Voice 9: for them to have the secondary suite. So it's been done, but they may not get the, you know,

[1:56:40] Voice 9: sort

[1:56:41] Voice 2: of the characters there's some uh concern as well that it's an attached which i think most

[1:56:47] Voice 2: of them are secondary suite it might have implications on the principal residence

[1:56:51] Voice 2: exemption upon sale it's just like when you over claim on your visit your office expense at home

[1:56:57] Voice 2: then that challenges the primary residence so we had a off you know off record discussion about it

[1:57:04] Voice 2: so just

[1:57:06] Voice 2: before i end

[1:57:07] Voice 6: up so that's what i give her the opportunity yeah

[1:57:11] Voice 1: so um one of the the

[1:57:13] Voice 1: questions about like the landlord tenancy act problems so um one of the ways around that and

[1:57:21] Voice 1: i think we are reasonably well positioned on pender um it just depends on sort of that you

[1:57:26] Voice 1: know who sits on the sort of housing authority kind of or housing boards like plum tree court

[1:57:33] Voice 1: actually is the right kind of entity to be able to operate other type of efforts if they so chose

[1:57:38] Voice 1: as a sort of housing board that you could have potentially and this could be more than just other

[1:57:47] Voice 1: like multi-family housing you could have a housing board that is for penders for instance and it

[1:57:55] Voice 1: could manage people's properties like related to if you have secondary suites or other things and

[1:58:01] Voice 1: And they could actually be the sort of property management, like arm to vet things.

[1:58:06] Voice 1: And that would help some of the challenges.

[1:58:08] Voice 1: They technically would be the landlord.

[1:58:11] Voice 1: And then that could help some of the issues that homeowners are concerned about and offer

[1:58:16] Voice 1: some sort of risk mitigation issues, depending on how it was structured, right?

[1:58:21] Voice 1: Like cover evictions if those were necessary or cover rent if they don't get paid, like

[1:58:26] Voice 1: have a pool for it.

[1:58:27] Voice 1: So there are some other strategies that are being shown now to be effective in other jurisdictions.

[1:58:32] Voice 1: But again, those are not things the trust would do because that's not within our own mandate.

[1:58:37] Voice 1: We just set the conditions for those things to be possible in community.

[1:58:42] Voice 1: And then one other thing related to the expenses of that, we're talking about expenses in the current moment, right, and costs and benefits in the current moment.

[1:58:53] Voice 1: But we're also planning for the future.

[1:58:55] Voice 1: so if we open up like abilities for people to you know um you know just like the secondary suites or

[1:59:04] Voice 1: to be able to split um uh what do you call it to split square footage on property into smaller

[1:59:11] Voice 1: buildings like tiny homes or other types of things or however we decide as communities to do that

[1:59:16] Voice 1: all of those options while they might not be like necessarily as useful in this moment

[1:59:24] Voice 1: development five years from now might be like totally reasonable given like what prices are

[1:59:29] Voice 1: and how how housing's moving and we don't want to have to start in five years right so we want it to

[1:59:34] Voice 1: be available yeah

[1:59:36] Voice 6: no but it's important to is to know we have to work with other partners because

[1:59:42] Voice 6: we are we are part of the facilitators but but like i give the example on may not be like well

[1:59:48] Voice 6: Well, I think the first tiny home that was constructed with a building permit was a main

[1:59:53] Voice 6: island, and it was a long process for the owner.

[1:59:58] Voice 6: A couple of years later...

[2:00:00] Voice 6: The owner decided to sell the tiny home,

[2:00:02] Voice 6: just had a couple of kids,

[2:00:03] Voice 6: and then he decided to build their own home.

[2:00:05] Voice 6: So he sold it.

[2:00:06] Voice 6: So tiny, long wheels, that's what it is,

[2:00:10] Voice 6: got moved a kilometer away.

[2:00:12] Voice 6: CRD building inspector said,

[2:00:14] Voice 6: oh, you've got to get it re-inspected.

[2:00:16] Voice 6: And it was close to $50,000

[2:00:19] Voice 6: because they had to all get a lot of the code.

[2:00:22] Voice 6: But it was billed, inspected, everything,

[2:00:25] Voice 6: to CRD satisfaction.

[2:00:27] Voice 6: But the second it moved, it didn't get re-inspected again.

[2:00:30] So we need to work with our partners. The idea of a property management organization,

[2:00:35] whether on the Southern Gulf Islands or Pound Island, that'll need a partnership. I

[2:00:41] Voice 6: had a

[2:00:42] Voice 6: conversation with Director Paul Brent of the CRU perhaps setting up a property management,

[2:00:50] Voice 6: because that's a big hassle for a lot of people, is dealing with tenants.

[2:00:54] Voice 6: And so if you had somebody else doing that, so that's where we can work together with other

[2:00:59] Voice 6: parties. Salt Spring, the largest homeless town in Canada, is in Ganges Island. 280 people

[2:01:12] Voice 6: living on boats. So this is, as pointed out, you know, with not necessarily a big problem on

[2:01:21] Voice 6: Penrith, but what is right there, and trust me, is that once that thing gets built,

[2:01:27] Voice 6: So they're going to look elsewhere. So we need to be five steps ahead. And I think this is where this effort really, really works, Mr. Fennig.

[2:01:36] Voice 5: Yeah, a couple of points. My sense of why this financing of secondary suites hasn't worked,

[2:01:44] Voice 9: the numbers don't work. Okay? And they just don't work. The cost of construction, the

[2:01:50] Voice 7: rent, the restrictions, they don't work. Okay? And it seems to me...

[2:01:57] Voice 7: Yeah, and the people who are going to do it are motivated to make money.

[2:02:02] Voice 7: So they have the property, they don't want to give it away.

[2:02:06] Voice 7: You can see it come back to RVs and tiny homes because you can

[2:02:11] Voice 11: put them on it, you can do

[2:02:13] Voice 11: it, and it's not a solution, but it is

[2:02:20] Voice 9: one, and you can put it on the secondary street.

[2:02:22] Voice 9: Yeah, you can put

[2:02:24] Voice 5: it on the secondary.

[2:02:25] Voice 5: Yeah, well, that's it.

[2:02:26] Voice 5: Yeah, no, I know.

[2:02:28] Voice 5: I guess I'm...

[2:02:30] Voice 9: Yeah, I'm...

[2:02:31] Voice 10: It's in the report.

[2:02:32] Voice 9: No, I know, but I'm stressing that.

[2:02:35] Voice 9: I know this is in the report.

[2:02:36] Voice 9: I'm stressing it.

[2:02:38] Voice 9: The last success from some of the other things.

[2:02:42] Okay, so that, I think, is something we have to take a look at.

[2:02:47] Voice 9: So I've been over in Salisbury with our clients over there.

[2:02:51] Voice 9: and I don't know what that is

[2:02:53] Voice 9: and the other thing

[2:02:55] Voice 9: is that people say

[2:02:57] Voice 9: well it's not bad here now

[2:02:58] Voice 9: my office I'm still practicing

[2:03:00] Voice 9: I get calls from desperate for housing

[2:03:03] Voice 9: so and they just

[2:03:05] Voice 9: disappear somehow or whatever

[2:03:06] Voice 9: so it is happening

[2:03:09] Voice 9: and there's you know not everybody

[2:03:11] Voice 9: can afford to do

[2:03:13] Voice 9: what some people are doing so

[2:03:14] Voice 9: I

[2:03:15] Voice 7: think those things are important

[2:03:16] Voice 7: I

[2:03:17] Voice 9: mean

[2:03:18] Voice 7: you

[2:03:19] Voice 9: know and it is

[2:03:21] Voice 9: all important and i think having all a variety of layers which are

[2:03:26] Voice 4: outlined

[2:03:27] Voice 9: in this in this plan

[2:03:29] Voice 9: because some people are even even two people take advantage of secondary suites that's

[2:03:35] Voice 9: two more opportunities if somebody comes forward and says you know there's a piece of property

[2:03:42] Voice 9: that's been identified that could be a medium density rolled out a building you know but you've

[2:03:50] Voice 9: got an idea where hey we don't need to build a six flex or an eight flex or 10 whatever it is but we

[2:03:57] Voice 9: can put 10 units on this piece of property you know then that then that's a conversation to have

[2:04:04] Voice 9: in in the future once we know where we could that could be done even to start because right now we

[2:04:11] Voice 9: don't have i think we only have a country car is the only piece of property that is actually

[2:04:17] Voice 9: zone ready to sort of shovel ready to do something yeah so

[2:04:23] Voice 9: trustee morrison no

[2:04:26] Voice 1: i think that's a

[2:04:27] Voice 1: remnant hand sorry it didn't get lowered okay

[2:04:29] Voice 4: all right just

[2:04:31] Voice 2: on the flip side of the opportunities

[2:04:34] Voice 2: of tiny homes and rvs when the moratorium first went in place i was supportive because it was

[2:04:42] Voice 2: my understanding that the focus of the concern was on allowing providing housing for people who

[2:04:48] Voice 2: who work on a large part of our services.

[2:04:52] Voice 2: And my husband and I are huge supporters

[2:04:56] Voice 2: of business on Pender.

[2:04:57] Voice 2: So that was a good thing.

[2:04:59] Voice 2: What I've noted, and I'm now speaking in my own neighborhood

[2:05:03] Voice 2: without even names, is instances where it's been,

[2:05:07] Voice 2: the opportunity's been taken to put trailers

[2:05:10] Voice 2: and tiny homes on property, and that's not the case.

[2:05:13] Voice 2: In one case, the person who moved to the island,

[2:05:18] Voice 2: and had no specific need to be on pender is a choice and has a tiny home and trailers and then

[2:05:25] Voice 2: there's another instance where they came onto a property long standing a trailer and then more

[2:05:35] Voice 2: trailers and then it's become a junkyard and my concern is I haven't complained because I don't

[2:05:42] Voice 2: like doing that I like working things out but I have no

[2:05:45] Voice 2: evidence that there's compliance with any

[2:05:47] Voice 2: of the water or sanitary requirements um there's safety issues there's fire hazard issues there

[2:05:56] Voice 2: there are two examples of the initiative in my view going awry when i wanted it to do well and

[2:06:04] Voice 2: my concern is in moving forward and making any approval first of all i want to know how long

[2:06:09] Voice 2: this is going to be tolerated and do i have to just complain about it to have it reviewed and

[2:06:16] Voice 2: and uh analyze okay that's a question you do and then

[2:06:21] Voice 2: yes yes nobody has to speak up

[2:06:25] Voice 9: wait for anybody else to know because you you will see something that's happening

[2:06:32] Voice 2: neighborhood sees something well

[2:06:33] Voice 9: or well it didn't tell there was next door

[2:06:36] Voice 9: We don't have it on the house yet.

[2:06:39] Voice 9: No,

[2:06:39] Voice 2: no, I know it's a bit facetious.

[2:06:41] Voice 7: So then

[2:06:41] Voice 9: the next question.

[2:06:44] Voice 2: Yeah.

[2:06:48] Voice 7: What you're talking about is the motion that they did to not enforce.

[2:06:53] Voice 7: Yes.

[2:06:55] Voice 1: Just to be clear.

[2:06:59] Voice 6: Trustee Morris, go ahead.

[2:07:01] Voice 1: Just to be clear, the not to enforce motion is not to enforce,

[2:07:04] Voice 1: force but to make ensure still that there's adequate sewer and water i think is the way it

[2:07:09] Voice 1: was written

[2:07:09] Voice 2: so only if you

[2:07:10] Voice 2: complain about

[2:07:11] Voice 1: it there's no yeah and say i've got my approval

[2:07:15] Voice 2: everybody it's

[2:07:17] Voice 1: a plan and then

[2:07:18] Voice 2: oh do you know what's going on there

[2:07:20] Voice 1: yeah i know it's a hassle

[2:07:22] Voice 1: i know i want to

[2:07:24] Voice 2: know how long the moratorium is in place and then the second part of the question

[2:07:28] Voice 2: is, if it's going to prolong until we have our housing plan, and then suddenly there's

[2:07:34] Voice 2: more attention to it, will those sites be grandfathered?

[2:07:38] Voice 1: No.

[2:07:39] Voice 2: Because that is a concern as well, that having bad situations and be allowed to hang

[2:07:45] Voice 2: there because, well, we didn't have enforcement rules.

[2:07:51] Voice 6: Do not enforce, just do not enforce, but that also means the local trust committee

[2:07:55] Voice 6: need can direct staff to enforce if something's brought forward as being concerned so it's totally

[2:08:06] Voice 6: it's a complaint-based process because the idea is is you know if if you're if the neighbors aren't

[2:08:12] Voice 6: concerned maybe it's not an issue so so if so but if a neighbor does complain like that i mean for

[2:08:20] Voice 6: for instance, are dealing with violent forces,

[2:08:21] Voice 6: blah, blah, blah, blah, unless a neighbor

[2:08:24] Voice 6: complains. And then violent enforcement

[2:08:26] Voice 6: kicks in. So, Trustee Morris, I see your hand.

[2:08:28] Voice 1: And then a couple other

[2:08:30] Voice 1: just clarifications on that. We can

[2:08:32] Voice 1: change that order over to an active

[2:08:34] Voice 1: enforcement order.

[2:08:36] Voice 1: Like, we could

[2:08:38] Voice 1: add a standing order that says

[2:08:40] Voice 1: active enforcement or monitoring

[2:08:42] Voice 1: of RV sites

[2:08:44] Voice 1: for water and

[2:08:45] Voice 1: sewer at the moment.

[2:08:47] Voice 1: none of that would get grandfathered in because it's still like it's not there's no there's no

[2:08:56] Voice 1: existing bylaw that says you can do an rv right so there have to be an existing bylaw we're just

[2:09:01] Voice 1: doing a not enforcing our bylaw situation so it's it would none of it would qualify as grandparenting

[2:09:07] Voice 1: under the way the law is written um but it i think to a number of your concerns on the timeline i i

[2:09:16] Voice 1: I have concerns about that too, because like, it's not like we're suddenly going to finish

[2:09:20] Voice 1: the housing project and there's going to be housing, right? Like that's not how this works,

[2:09:25] Voice 1: unfortunately. So I think the challenge that we're going to face is like, if people are adding

[2:09:32] Voice 1: housing in that way, they're going to start to get enforced on at some point and they have to

[2:09:38] Voice 1: understand that, you know? So we should do a little bit as we get closer to the end of our,

[2:09:43] Voice 1: And that's one of the recommendations in here is to do a little bit more education outreach related to like what options there are, but also to like say what options there aren't probably is also important to get people to migrate away from that because the moratorium wasn't a free for all, like go put a bunch of trailers on your property.

[2:10:01] Voice 1: It was meant to protect the people who are currently living in trailers.

[2:10:06] Voice 1: So I don't know.

[2:10:08] Voice 1: I would, the active enforcement problem, I'm with you.

[2:10:11] Voice 1: i hate that kind of like narc on your neighbor problem so are the non-active enforcement the

[2:10:17] Voice 1: passive way that it's done um so we might want to consider that and aaron maybe we can maybe can

[2:10:23] Voice 1: brad can we just mark that for the next meeting just to add a conversation under our housing

[2:10:28] Voice 1: project about our standing resolution related to housing and we might want to revisit that and just

[2:10:33] Voice 1: think about how to clarify that a little bit so that we don't get people doing what you're just

[2:10:38] Voice 1: saying like adding additional rvs without really thoughtful i don't know how to figure that out but

[2:10:45] Voice 1: it can be a conversation

[2:10:48] Voice 8: okay um so it might die in here but he's on the dbc the other issue brought up is

[2:10:56] Voice 8: water and fire safety yeah so my question is who would say uh can pay for

[2:11:06] Voice 9: mandatory

[2:11:07] Voice 9: fire inspection

[2:11:13] Voice 8: but who would have the power to

[2:11:24] Voice 11: it's part of what we're considering I understand

[2:11:31] Voice 11: it is that would be part of the process could

[2:11:36] Voice 9: be it would be like a bylaw provision that would say

[2:11:41] Voice 9: you can live in a recreational vehicle subject to poking up to water antiseptic and

[2:11:49] Voice 9: inspection by fire and

[2:11:52] Voice 9: if you do that uh the challenge is is that well i think honestly

[2:12:03] Voice 9: fire safety is not going to improve very many of these is one in that one yeah so you see if

[2:12:09] Voice 9: my guy was here and we said that's the reason we have to do it yes agreed

[2:12:13] Voice 6: we're talking about

[2:12:16] Voice 6: may not it's we're just preliminary i think we discussed this last week um is that we're

[2:12:23] Voice 6: thinking about with rbs is is permitting them under temporary use permit um charging a very

[2:12:30] Voice 6: small amount for the temporary use program but the condition would be subject to water sewer

[2:12:36] Voice 6: or an inspection okay but

[2:12:38] Voice 11: there's there's another issue besides fire safety on markings and that's

[2:12:43] Voice 11: they're not suitable for year-round use because you get condensation and mold there are and there

[2:12:50] Voice 11: are units that are there all right

[2:12:52] Voice 11: but they have to be certified for that and what you're seeing

[2:12:56] Voice 11: is a lot of ones that are not suitable for your body use that way and that's a health risk so

[2:13:05] Voice 11: you've got fire and safety you've got oh

[2:13:07] Voice 3: i just want to say if you kick these people out or you

[2:13:09] Voice 3: complain well where do they go do they go to a tent which catches fire which has mold which is

[2:13:15] Voice 3: they take

[2:13:16] Voice 7: a boat yeah

[2:13:21] Voice 2: that's what i was saying one case the person came to pender there was no need for them

[2:13:26] Voice 2: to come to him to set up shop this way in another case fellow was living elsewhere so now

[2:13:32] Voice 3: I know

[2:13:32] Voice 3: exactly what you mean.

[2:13:34] Voice 2: So I know.

[2:13:34] Voice 3: Yeah, I realize you do.

[2:13:37] Voice 9: Yeah, a couple of points.

[2:13:39] Voice 9: Living full time in an RV, if it's like any kind of housing,

[2:13:44] Voice 9: you don't have a problem with circulation

[2:13:46] Voice 9: and that sort of thing.

[2:13:47] Voice 9: I lived in one two years.

[2:13:49] Voice 9: I had a little bit of mold because I wasn't

[2:13:51] Voice 9: running around.

[2:13:52] Voice 9: You deal with it.

[2:13:53] Voice 9: Certain RVs are better than others.

[2:13:56] Voice 9: It's not.

[2:13:58] Voice 9: It's a fixable problem.

[2:13:59] Voice 9: It is a legitimate concern.

[2:14:02] Voice 9: The other thing is the report's just been done from CRD dealing with a lot of the practical problems of what to do with people living on tiny homes or RVs.

[2:14:14] Voice 9: It deals with hookup of water, sewer,

[2:14:17] Voice 7: electric, and it recommends that all those should be done.

[2:14:21] Voice 7: It's a bit of

[2:14:23] Voice 9: a chicken and an egg, because one of my clients in Salt Spring, a woman

[2:14:30] Voice 9: got picked over at my old place, she had a son going to school, she had a business on

[2:14:37] Voice 9: Salt Spring, a couple of employees, talked to someone, put her RV there, the landlord

[2:14:44] Voice 9: Lord spent $5,000 to get the hydro, she was a contractor, she put a hook up to the sewer

[2:14:51] Voice 9: and had water. So, you know, find someone from Wayne and their, their bylaws said, sorry,

[2:15:00] Voice 9: you have to go. So there's a chicken and egg thing. You've got to get these people to do

[2:15:05] Voice 9: it. I agree completely because otherwise it's a mess. It would be like a mess in Salt Spring.

[2:15:10] Voice 9: You've got to stop it now, but you've got to give the, whether it's the RV owner or the landlord, some security that if they spend dollars to build it up, then they'll

[2:15:25] Voice 6: be able to stay.

[2:15:26] Voice 6: But one of the

[2:15:28] Voice 6: things that's feeding the problem right now on many of the islands is this literally

[2:15:34] Voice 6: inability to dispose.

[2:15:36] Voice 6: It's happening both with boats and RVs where these things are becoming, they're like pieces

[2:15:43] Voice 6: of crap.

[2:15:44] Voice 6: And what happens is it is literally either too expensive or impossible to dispose of

[2:15:50] Voice 6: it.

[2:15:50] Voice 6: So what happens is they pass it on to somebody else for free, and that's enabling this sort of substandard situation.

[2:15:58] Voice 6: That's the Ganji situation because, you know, people found these boats they couldn't get rid of.

[2:16:03] Voice 6: So they found somebody, they gave it to them for a dollar, and now all of a sudden it's a hole.

[2:16:08] Voice 6: And so that's one of the things that trying to get a CRD to get on is basically having some sort of amnesty program,

[2:16:16] Voice 6: program, some sort of program where you say, well, bring it to Harvard, we'll take care

[2:16:20] Voice 6: of it. And to make some of these things go away, because right now, if you've got a vote

[2:16:26] Voice 6: to get rid of, the expenses are massive. Because they, like, CRDA a year ago put in this program

[2:16:32] Voice 6: at Harvard, that they'll accept no vote unless it's had a full hazardous survey. That's close

[2:16:38] Voice 6: to $6,000. They're now doing the same with RVs. And so, you know, so if you've got an

[2:16:44] Voice 6: old rv in the backyard you can give it to somebody for a dollar or you can spend five or six thousand

[2:16:50] Voice 6: dollars and have an asset successful and get rid of it what are you going to do so so what we need

[2:16:55] Voice 6: to do is we need to sort of call out some of the substandard stuff because it is it's not possible

[2:17:00] Voice 6: yeah

[2:17:01] Voice 9: i agree with that i'm thinking i'm advocating people with rvs it's not low uh lowest income

[2:17:08] Voice 9: it won't work okay it's more for uh working people that have some income but it's not going to look

[2:17:15] Voice 9: after the very poor you just got to forget that it's time to put the services in have a reasonable

[2:17:21] Voice 9: rv or tiny home on wheels it costs money it's more affordable than other construction

[2:17:28] Voice 9: but and and i'm advocating that you have all the stuff that doesn't work that way

[2:17:34] Voice 9: we have to get rid of it because otherwise the whole ability for people to live this way will

[2:17:41] Voice 9: be ruined by their reputation no one will accept it and i accept that so that's why you have to

[2:17:48] Voice 9: say okay let's do something um let's get rid of the crap um that's for federal provincial

[2:17:55] Voice 9: mentioned our work funding um and you

[2:17:59] Voice 6: can't do that trust you morrison i know your time's getting

[2:18:05] Voice 6: short here so yeah

[2:18:07] Voice 1: i do have to go i'm sorry we're just have to finish the last of the

[2:18:10] Voice 1: anyway long story but i have a big session here coming up um so i think just want to thank

[2:18:19] Voice 1: everybody for the comments and the the conversation it's super helpful um i am with the last speaker

[2:18:26] Voice 1: speaker um whoever that was i couldn't quite see um was that rob yeah um just around you know

[2:18:35] Voice 1: finding ways to ensure that whatever we do permit it has a long-term sort of health and safety issue

[2:18:41] Voice 1: how that we are monitoring those things and in some way there is the potential i don't know if

[2:18:46] Voice 1: it's i don't know i saw it specifically in the report but there is the potential that

[2:18:50] Voice 1: you know we could write the bylaw in such a way that like for rvs for instance

[2:18:54] Voice 1: instance they are on a tup of a certain duration for instance and then that is how we manage the

[2:19:01] Voice 1: permitting right so every few years they come up and then we get a chance to say yes they're still

[2:19:06] Voice 1: certified they're still whatever um and that's one way to keep sort of some local control over

[2:19:12] Voice 1: quality housing um but it there is that issue about like so what happens if they're not like

[2:19:19] Voice 1: Like, do they just become like debris on our landscape?

[2:19:22] Voice 1: And like, how do we manage that?

[2:19:24] Voice 1: So that's an ongoing question that we have.

[2:19:26] Voice 1: And that's one of the things that's been a long-term struggle on Pender.

[2:19:30] Voice 1: I don't think it's as people are as aware of it right now, but removing of derelict

[2:19:34] Voice 1: vehicles generally on Pender has been an ongoing struggle for the entire time we've

[2:19:40] Voice 1: been a trustee.

[2:19:41] Voice 1: So six and a half years of like enforcing, and it's very costly.

[2:19:45] Voice 1: so trying to figure out ways of preemptively doing that at the front end without burdening people

[2:19:51] Voice 1: is also a challenge so okay i'm sorry i do have to go really love the conversation thanks so much

[2:19:58] Voice 1: for all the work on the housing reports to everyone who contributed and to brad for sharing

[2:20:02] Voice 1: the thinking around that today thanks bye

[2:20:05] Voice 3: thank you

[2:20:08] Voice 3: who's going to find all these

[2:20:10] Voice 3: obvious hidden in the backwoods to make sure they have you know they're not

[2:20:16] Voice 3: hidden well some of them

[2:20:27] Voice 3: it's like

[2:20:28] Voice 6: everything else you should know because they have to respond to your neighbor's property

[2:20:37] Voice 6: I mean, if there's something inappropriate, it gets dealt with.

[2:20:41] Voice 6: But it's a matter of this LTC just basically needs to figure out what it wants for the program is,

[2:20:48] Voice 6: then work with other partners.

[2:20:51] Voice 6: But

[2:20:51] Voice 2: if you're not doing any work on the other side, you know.

[2:20:53] Voice 6: Well, if you know about it, you report it.

[2:20:55] Voice 2: Well,

[2:20:56] Voice 6: I'm sure someone

[2:20:58] Voice 2: in that neighborhood...

[2:20:59] Voice 6: Yeah, but the thing about currently right now is that we do have this student on the force,

[2:21:04] Voice 6: so what would have to happen is you have to put a complaint in and and you know i think that's

[2:21:10] Voice 6: going to be the conversation to me that trustee morris was talking about is is that we somehow

[2:21:15] Voice 6: i think we need to have a communication with our enforcement staff saying look we need to see the

[2:21:21] Voice 6: complaints as they come in so don't just say we have you know of course we need to look at the

[2:21:26] Voice 6: situation and say to enforce or do not enforce on that one because health and safety is silly

[2:21:33] Voice 6: I was involved in getting that exemption two

[2:21:37] Voice 9: or three years ago, and I've dealt with enforcement

[2:21:40] Voice 9: other items with this, and that exemption requires people to have appropriate services.

[2:21:48] Voice 9: It's not

[2:21:48] Voice 9: a blanket exemption.

[2:21:50] Voice 9: So I

[2:21:51] Voice 10: know,

[2:21:54] Voice 9: but if people can do what they want, but if they're violating the rules,

[2:21:58] Voice 9: they're violating.

[2:21:58] Voice 9: someone complains, what I'm saying

[2:22:01] Voice 9: is my understanding of that

[2:22:02] Voice 9: and that's what I've always been concerned with

[2:22:04] Voice 9: is that someone

[2:22:06] Voice 9: isn't hooked up to a sewer or a septic

[2:22:09] Voice 9: they're out and that's what

[2:22:10] Voice 9: happened to my client on Salt Spring

[2:22:12] Voice 9: and so there is

[2:22:15] Voice 9: my view of that

[2:22:16] Voice 9: is that there is the ability to do that

[2:22:19] Voice 9: there's whether you want to

[2:22:21] Voice 9: and where they go, but there is that

[2:22:23] Voice 9: ability right now

[2:22:24] Voice 9: and so I keep

[2:22:26] Voice 9: keep telling people, you know,

[2:22:29] Voice 9: this could be yanked at any time.

[2:22:31] Voice 9: And especially if you're not

[2:22:32] Voice 9: hooked up. And that's why I'm

[2:22:34] Voice 9: pushing, we've got to try and get

[2:22:36] Voice 9: the concurrent ability

[2:22:39] Voice 9: to put the services in so

[2:22:41] Voice 9: we can't be hooked up. And

[2:22:42] Voice 9: a bunch of people

[2:22:44] Voice 7: are going to be off.

[2:22:45] Voice 6: But I think that it sounds like this

[2:22:47] Voice 6: is going to be a topic for our next

[2:22:48] Voice 6: Open Trust mini-meeting. I think this

[2:22:51] Voice 6: is where we can sort of do the deep dive

[2:22:52] Voice 6: because we'll have a violent enforcement officer there

[2:22:55] Voice 6: and we'll be able to vaccine

[2:22:58] Voice 6: So

[2:22:59] Voice 5: if your temporary

[2:23:00] Voice 8: thing is, the exemption says you can live there if you're hooked up,

[2:23:08] that's the same as what

[2:23:09] Voice 6: we proposed in the change.

[2:23:11] Voice 6: Well, what we're talking about on bay is actually having an inspection.

[2:23:16] Voice 6: So when you get your temporary permit, you have to prove that you're hooked up to water.

[2:23:22] Voice 6: But also, fire chiefs have been through, fire departments have been through for health and safety.

[2:23:28] Voice 6: And so basically taking a bunch of boxes, then you get your temporary use permit.

[2:23:32] Voice 6: It's for three years. And every three years, you have to resubmit.

[2:23:36] Voice 6: So zoning is just a deadline

[2:23:39] Voice 9: for actually CEO.

[2:23:40] Voice 9: I would say zoning by-law can't create the conditions that a temporary use permit could create.

[2:23:48] Voice 9: So by issuing a temporary use permit, you could have a condition that specifically says you must demonstrate your RV's been inspected within six months of issuance.

[2:23:59] Voice 9: You must demonstrate that your RV is hooked up to set and water.

[2:24:04] Voice 9: And after three years, you need to renew your permit and all of those conditions would be looked at.

[2:24:08] Voice 9: Okay, are you meeting all those conditions?

[2:24:10] Voice 9: business. And if you're not, then you need whereas if you kind

[2:24:13] Voice 9: of enable it through zoning, it's harder to enforce than an

[2:24:18] Voice 9: instrument of a temporary use permit, but it's a really

[2:24:21] Voice 9: specific set of requirements.

[2:24:25] Voice 2: I've just a question for the committee going forward, we can

[2:24:29] Voice 2: answer today, but I do want

[2:24:30] Voice 2: you to think about the point of with

[2:24:34] Voice 2: these initiatives. And

[2:24:37] Voice 1: I'm not sure

[2:24:37] Voice 2: how we discern between the

[2:24:38] Voice 2: you but are we trying to make sure we have housing for penderates who are live in the community work

[2:24:44] Voice 2: in the community certainly or are we talking about attracting more population and serving folks who

[2:24:52] Voice 2: can barely get by and so they'll have um means slightly ahead of a tent as lisa was talking about

[2:24:59] Voice 2: like i want to understand in your thinking or i'd like you to think about where this who who we're

[2:25:06] Voice 2: trying to serve because um it's one thing to say well your army's going to have to meet certain

[2:25:12] Voice 2: standards but you know they're i just i'm just interested to know because we're also trying to

[2:25:18] Voice 2: control say well we only have so much density i mean if we've got people here who are worried

[2:25:23] Voice 2: about complying with a tree that might have a nest and are concerned about nature and humans

[2:25:30] Voice 2: is working together this could be by a wave of a population who you know are wanting a certain kind

[2:25:41] Voice 2: of support or housing it's

[2:25:44] Voice 9: always sort of a challenge though right it's like the chat the

[2:25:46] Voice 9: challenge of having a do not enforce on trailers is that you can't say it's okay for peter to do

[2:25:56] Voice 9: right but lisa can't right right and that's and that's where that's where it but

[2:26:03] Voice 2: everybody's tied

[2:26:04] Voice 2: to working you

[2:26:05] Voice 9: know we

[2:26:06] Voice 2: don't have we don't have

[2:26:07] Voice 9: that we don't we don't get to make that

[2:26:11] Voice 9: i think it is important that you can't really like manage for you

[2:26:18] Voice 9: restricting freedom of movement but i think the goals and the planned actions are trying to

[2:26:26] Voice 9: like i'm looking to explore opportunities to permit worker accommodation yeah so there is

[2:26:31] Voice 9: a very specific action that's trying to get to that demographic well

[2:26:36] Voice 2: as i said in the beginning

[2:26:37] Voice 2: when the moratorium came

[2:26:39] Voice 9: forward a big focus supporting our workers right and then the way

[2:26:43] Voice 9: i see it is that if you need to invest 10 or 20 000 to get your rv hooked up you are viable enough

[2:26:51] Voice 9: to and you're doing it for a purpose that is important enough for you to come and so and i

[2:26:59] Voice 9: think for the most part folks that are worried about being able to take down a rafter tree or

[2:27:07] Voice 9: someone looking at doing something far greater than siting an rv on their property and putting

[2:27:14] Voice 9: it's services probably you know the word i don't know that there's that many people still looking

[2:27:24] Voice 9: to come to vacation like just to build a vacation residence on the gulf islands that they would put

[2:27:31] Voice 9: our meeting it's good it's going to happen yeah yeah if they're if they're they're paying that

[2:27:39] Voice 9: kind of money for for a lot you know but

[2:27:42] Voice 11: actually the project is there and we're talking about

[2:27:46] Voice 11: portable housing or

[2:27:48] Voice 9: flexible so you'll

[2:27:50] Voice 11: have a small value

[2:27:51] Voice 9: or smaller unit so i think we're

[2:27:54] Voice 9: trying to target the demographic

[2:27:55] Voice 11: you're talking about and

[2:27:57] Voice 9: i agree with rob 100 but like i think

[2:28:00] Voice 9: we spend a lot of time talking about rvs and we don't spend enough time separating what we need

[2:28:05] Voice 9: by what going through the

[2:28:07] Voice 9: whole process of ensuring that rv is having hookups and versus

[2:28:12] Voice 9: Versus all the things with wheels that people

[2:28:17] Voice 9: switch

[2:28:18] Voice 4: from shipping

[2:28:21] Voice 4: to shipping containers.

[2:28:22] Voice 4: Where

[2:28:23] Voice 9: I just spent the winter,

[2:28:25] Voice 9: like the things that people are doing

[2:28:27] Voice 9: with shipping containers down there

[2:28:28] Voice 9: is absolutely incredible.

[2:28:32] Voice 9: And they are doing it because there's a permitting process

[2:28:36] Voice 9: that is third world at best going on in Mexico

[2:28:43] Voice 9: and it's considered a temporary structure and they can just get building without doing anything and

[2:28:49] Voice 9: they still put in their power and what you have to buy water there is no well um and they put in

[2:28:56] Voice 9: a put in a septic field but i have pictures on my phone of places that we saw that people built

[2:29:03] Voice 9: So really, really cool, well put together, tiny houses, essentially, out of the shipping.

[2:29:14] Voice 9: Oh, very easy.

[2:29:15] Voice 11: You're talking about modular homes, and that's something else.

[2:29:19] Voice 11: That's it, yeah.

[2:29:20] Voice 11: It's part of the project.

[2:29:21] Voice 11: So I really think we have a comprehensive project here that's going to hit all of those things.

[2:29:28] Voice 11: and hopefully when we have the studies we can and we're certainly going to take advantage of work

[2:29:34] Voice 11: like the crd is doing on the hookups and everything like we're piggybacking all of that

[2:29:40] Voice 9: and

[2:29:40] Voice 11: then that was

[2:29:41] Voice 9: that was sort of was the desire to to starting now instead of delaying it

[2:29:48] Voice 9: was that there is so much horsepower behind this issue yeah that we will benefit from a far

[2:29:56] Voice 9: richer project at the end of the day

[2:30:00] Voice 9: because we've been able to use

[2:30:02] Voice 9: information from Maine

[2:30:03] Voice 9: we've been able to use the information from Devon

[2:30:06] Voice 9: the one

[2:30:08] Voice 9: Marissa

[2:30:09] Voice 9: who was really working on it

[2:30:11] Voice 9: a little bit more up island

[2:30:13] Voice 9: than us

[2:30:15] Voice 9: she has done so much work

[2:30:18] Voice 9: and all of that information is available

[2:30:19] Voice 9: to us without having

[2:30:22] Voice 9: to have done all of the work

[2:30:24] Voice 9: and there will be

[2:30:26] Voice 9: like you have said there's layers to it

[2:30:28] Voice 9: parties, tiny houses

[2:30:30] Voice 9: on wheels, non-profit

[2:30:32] Voice 9: affordable housing

[2:30:34] Voice 9: modular homes

[2:30:35] Voice 9: multi-unit density stuff

[2:30:38] Voice 9: there's so many different

[2:30:40] Voice 9: things

[2:30:42] Voice 11: it's meant to be as

[2:30:44] Voice 11: comprehensive as possible

[2:30:45] Voice 11: and it's not meant to focus

[2:30:48] Voice 11: on one thing

[2:30:49] Voice 11: but to see as broad a

[2:30:52] Voice 11: suite of things as we can

[2:30:53] Voice 11: in

[2:30:54] Voice 9: the hopes that

[2:30:55] Voice 9: people look at it from the outside

[2:30:57] Voice 9: and go oh i can do this one yeah or

[2:30:59] Voice 9: oh i can do this one yeah you

[2:31:02] Voice 9: know and and we have the ability

[2:31:04] Voice 9: to who's in charge of the fence

[2:31:07] Voice 6: they go almost nobody the fence yeah

[2:31:12] Voice 6: but but something but

[2:31:13] Voice 6: they're doing

[2:31:13] Voice 11: don't do it

[2:31:14] Voice 6: they're doing zero enforcement

[2:31:15] Voice 11: but they

[2:31:17] Voice 11: moved them from false

[2:31:19] Voice 11: creek to gandhi yeah

[2:31:20] Voice 6: yeah but that's what happened

[2:31:22] Voice 6: what happened is they with false creek is vancouver

[2:31:27] Voice 6: got a license of occupation yeah so

[2:31:29] Voice 6: the city of vancouver evicted because they actually ended up

[2:31:33] Voice 6: quote unquote owning the water well they got

[2:31:35] Voice 6: it from the pets so but then the thing is with with

[2:31:38] Voice 6: ganges harbor and such there isn't a jurisdiction that's allowed to have a license of occupation

[2:31:44] Voice 6: they go on island as a municipality they got licensed occupation in a harbor there same thing

[2:31:49] Voice 6: they evicted all the livables but let's see if you get it

[2:31:53] Voice 7: they're

[2:31:54] Voice 6: not currently they're not eligible

[2:31:56] Voice 7: so

[2:31:57] Voice 6: you you have to be in this town so in in the case of of salt spring there's a serious concern

[2:32:05] Voice 6: there and and all your sections are trying to get enforcement and there's all this pointing

[2:32:10] Voice 6: at each other nobody's doing anything and part of the key is is that maritime law says you're not

[2:32:18] Voice 6: And so, if you're on a boat, it's basically this great big void of regulations and legislation.

[2:32:28] Voice 6: And in places like Dallas Trust areas, enforcement is almost impossible.

[2:32:34] Voice 6: We do our best, but you know, Ganshin's Harbor is so high on every level of government's radar, and there's no enforcement.

[2:32:42] Voice 6: and so it's the boat thing is a very scary thing because it's only really emerging out of

[2:32:50] Voice 6: out of salt spring like we've just finished on on main island we had two basic same situations

[2:32:57] Voice 6: with two boats both of them sunk and and the the fence cleaned up the mess and all that

[2:33:04] Voice 6: but we're really really scared um and and here i would suggest is probably a similar situation

[2:33:11] Voice 2: We have all the pirate ships that move around

[2:33:14] Voice 6: so far in our lives so it's it's something

[2:33:19] Voice 6: I the the key with housing is everybody's work together yeah and

[2:33:24] Voice 6: so terrestrial I think

[2:33:26] Voice 6: we've got a lot of the you know we're going to get this fixed on the water be scared seriously

[2:33:32] Voice 6: be scared because like the feedback that we've certainly received from being in this harbor

[2:33:38] Voice 6: is nobody is doing enforcement. Nobody's willing to do enforcement. And most who want to do it can't do it. So,

[2:33:45] Voice 11: it's a problem.

[2:33:49] Voice 6: Any other questions or are we kind of wrapped up?

[2:33:54] Voice 6: We really thank the APC for the work they've done.

[2:34:07] Voice 6: We really sincerely appreciate the work the ABC has done with this, and the quality of

[2:34:15] Voice 6: this comeback is really, really good, and it helps inform the process, but also it helps

[2:34:23] Voice 6: him out of the process because the local trust committee knows we're working for the community

[2:34:28] Voice 6: because you are the community giving us information so it's just really sincerely appreciated

[2:34:39] Voice 6: well thank you everybody with that i think we'll adjourn and uh we appreciate your time

North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Special Meeting 
April 12, 2025 ADOPTED Page 1 of 4 
 
North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Minutes of Special Meeting 
 
Date:  
Location:  
April 12, 2025 
Pender Island Community Hall 
4418 Bedwell Harbour Road, North Pender Island, BC 
 
Members Present: David Maude, Chair 
 Aaron Campbell, Local Trustee 
 Deb Morrison, Local Trustee (electronic)  
  
Staff Present: Brad Smith, Island Planner 
 Lisa Millard, Meeting Administrator/Recorder (electronic) 
  
Others Present: There were 10 members of the public present. 
 
1. CALL TO ORDER 
Chair Maude called the meeting to order at 12:00 p.m.  
2. TERRITORIAL ACKNOWLEDGEMENT 
Chair Maude acknowledged that the meeting was being held in territory of the Coast Salish 
First Nations. 
3. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 
By general consent, the agenda was approved as presented. 
4. BUSINESS ITEMS 
4.1 Raptor Nest DPA Project - Staff Presentation - Q/A 
Island Planner Smith provided a presentation and highlighted the following: 
• The current Development Permit Area for raptors was adopted in 2008 based on 
a survey done by local volunteers and a Riparian Biologist 
• The Local Trust Committee has updated the data set and Development Permit 
Area guidelines to reflect updated provincial guidelines 
• If development is to occur within a Development Permit Area, specific 
guidelines are required to be met 
• Development Permit Area 7 on North Pender includes provisions for the 
protection of the habitat used by bald eagles and raptors and generally applies 
to any subdivision of land and any development or construction or alteration of 
structures and includes a number of exemptions to the requirement for a permit 
• To date a referral letter has been sent to First Nations, the study has been 
completed, updated mapping done, one letter has been sent to property 
ADOPTED 

 
North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Special Meeting 
April 12, 2025 ADOPTED Page 2 of 4 
owners, a bylaw drafted, and a second letter to property owners will be 
forthcoming 
• The first letter identified potential nest trees on specific properties and 
described provisions of the proposed bylaw 
• The second letter will go out to those that own property within the proposed 
buffer zone 
• There are approximately 20-25 new nest sites since mapping was last done 
• The biggest proposed change is to increase the buffer area from 30-50 metres to 
a 60-metre radius with an additional seasonal buffer area 
• The goal is to take into consideration options that might provide protections and 
not to sterilize lots or create an unbuildable environment 
• Existing structures are not affected; however, new construction or alteration of 
an existing building within the Development Permit Area would require a permit 
 
Members of the public asked questions and the Local Trust Committee provided 
responses as follows: 
 
What is driving the proposed change? 
There have been issues of cutting trees down within a Development Permit Area 
and it is difficult to enforce Development Permit Area guidelines if they are 
outside of provincial guidelines. Raptors are important species that require 
special protections. 
 
What is driving the expansion of the buffer zone? 
The Local Trust Committee wanted to update bylaws to reflect updated 
mapping and new provincial guidelines of best practices for protection. 
  
There are examples of property owners who have stated an identified tree has not 
been occupied in several years or that the nest has fallen down, yet those trees are 
still mapped as viable inventory. 
The intent is to work with property owners to continue to update the maps to get 
them as accurate as possible. If a property owner disagrees with mapping 
information, they can make a written submission and request further 
assessment. 
 
If a nest is no longer present in a tree, why would it still be considered viable? This 
would encompass most trees on the island. 
Most trees are not suited to raptors nests, the inventory of viable trees is not 
huge, and if a tree is viable, it should be protected. 
 
It is important to get public acceptance because this will affect a large number of 
lots and additional public education might be required. 
The Local Trust Committee has intentionally not rushed the bylaw amendment 
process as the matter requires community conversation and time to allow 
property owners to identify and report inventory that might be inaccurate.  
 

 
North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Special Meeting 
April 12, 2025 ADOPTED Page 3 of 4 
It is important for Trustees to understand the Development Area Permit project is 
affecting many properties and there is evidence that shows eagles are thriving and 
live well amongst people. 
The bylaw will be put into place as a check and balance system and enable 
conversation about the effects of development on the environment in respect of 
raptor nest trees. 
 
Property owners fear extra costs, time, and limitations imposed by the bylaw and 
the language should be softened. 
The Development Permit Area guidelines language can be influenced by 
community input; however, the guidelines do strive to retain, restore, and 
enhance key habitat features for raptors so that no net loss of habitat occurs. 
The intention is not to prevent any development being done but reflects the 
need to be cautious and meet the broader community goals of protecting the 
environmental components of the area. 
Do real estate agent have to tell prospective buyers or sellers the property is located 
within a Development Permit Area. 
The seller has a duty to disclose any restrictions to development. DPAs however 
are not declared on title. 
 
The meeting recessed for a break at 1:20 p.m. and reconvened at 1:30 p.m. 
4.2 Housing Access and Affordability Project 
4.2.1 Housing Action Plan Presentation - Q/A 
4.2.2 Community Discussion and Next Steps 
The Planner provided an overview of Islands Trust wide housing review 
projects and processes and highlighted the following: 
• Trust Council has prioritized a broad housing strategy, the Regional 
Planning Committee is implementing a wide range of housing project 
tools, and Local Trust Committees are working on individual housing 
projects 
• A Housing Took Kit has been developed and is designed to help focus 
Local Trust Committee discussions 
• The project looks at all of the Official Community Plan policies with 
respect to housing to broaden or create new policy 
• A draft action plan has been informed by the housing needs assessment 
• Next steps include continued community engagement, a mail out to all 
households, completion of the land suitability analysis and build out 
analysis, and First Nations Engagement 
• The goals of the Action Plan include updating and using available data to 
inform projects, diversifying housing options through zoning, increasing 
opportunities for not-for-profit housing, community education and 
outreach, and incorporating First Nations interests in decision making 
 

 
North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Special Meeting 
April 12, 2025 ADOPTED Page 4 of 4 
Discussion ensued and the following comments, questions, and 
clarifications were noted: 
• Provincial or Federal affordable housing grant funding can not typically 
be applied for unless zoning is in place 
• The Local Trust Committee would like to zone areas that would allow 
different housing options such as zoning a portion of land to provide for 
affordable housing to ensure it is project ready when funds become 
available 
• There is intention to create flexibility on maximum floor coverage to 
permit the potential for an increased options within the floor coverage 
permitted 
• There are provincial and federal initiatives for large project funding; 
however, there are barriers to doing small projects that are more suited 
to rural islands 
• Islands Trust has been advocating for regulating tiny homes that are 
certified for year-round use 
• There is limited uptake on secondary suite opportunities 
• North Pender can be proactive and provide opportunity through zoning 
to increase housing options 
• The intent of the moratorium on enforcement on illegal use of 
recreational vehicles (RVs) as dwelling units was to support workers and 
residents already living in RVs and the Local Trust Committee can direct 
staff to enforce if there are water, septic, or other concerns 
• There are problems associated with living in an RV year-round due to 
circulation and mould issues and it is important to find ways to ensure 
that whatever is permitted will address health and safety issues 
• There is potential to regulate RVs using the Temporary Use Permit which 
allows the Local Trust Committee to specify conditions that need to be 
met 
• The goals of the planned actions are to explore opportunities to permit 
flexible housing and create a broad set of options 
5. ADJOURNMENT 
By general consent the meeting was adjourned at 2:35 p.m. 
 
_________________________ 
David Maude, Chair 
 
Certified Correct: 
 
_________________________ 
Lisa Millard, Meeting Administrator/Recorder