Saturna Island Local Trust Committee community information meeting, July 24, 2025

[0:00:44] Voice 13: Good morning, everybody. Thank you for joining us today for this regular meeting of the Central

[0:00:51] Voice 13: Territory and Local Trust Committee. I'm David Maud, the one beginning this meeting by acknowledging

[0:00:57] Voice 13: that we're fortunate to be able to gather today in locations across the territory of the

[0:01:02] Voice 13: Putserish people. I'm David Maud, Elector of Main Island, Chair of the Territory and Local

[0:01:06] Voice 13: Trust Committee. I'm joined today by your Territory and Local Trust Deans, Dr. Paul

[0:01:10] Voice 13: and Mr. Middleton. Together we make up the Territory and Local Trust Committee. This

[0:01:15] Voice 13: meeting is being live streamed and recorded for those who are unable to attend in person

[0:01:18] Voice 13: today. Recordings will be posted to the Island Trust website for future viewing. We have some

[0:01:24] Voice 13: staff members joining us today. We have Brad Smith here at Island Trust. And online we have Lisa

[0:01:32] Voice 13: Lahr who is our Zoom master and looks after the minutes and such. We very much appreciate the

[0:01:38] Voice 13: remote services provided by her. I don't know, do

[0:01:43] Voice 3: we have more Dave joining us today?

[0:01:44] Voice 3: Mr. David will be coming on at 1 p.m. or earlier if we need him before then.

[0:01:50] Voice 3: That's it.

[0:01:51] Voice 3: Thanks.

[0:01:53] Voice 13: Mr. David will be joining us likely later on.

[0:01:57] Voice 13: Mr. Ledger, is there any sufficient form for your local trust to make decisions about land use planning and discuss relevant business?

[0:02:04] Voice 13: So before we have an agenda, does anybody have any additions or deletions or anything?

[0:02:14] Voice 12: You guys, I think, in the public.

[0:02:17] Voice 12: Yeah, you had something to explore.

[0:02:19] Voice 12: Okay, so I have something then.

[0:02:23] Voice 12: I think I have something which probably didn't make it up yet.

[0:02:27] Voice 12: This is correspondence we received from Peter Stoltain.

[0:02:31] Voice 12: It was too late to get on the agenda.

[0:02:34] Voice 12: It's public.

[0:02:35] Voice 12: We'll have to go on.

[0:02:38] Voice 12: Be attended to the next meeting.

[0:02:39] Voice 12: but uh it did seem he was going to attend today and is he not knowing he's going to come and

[0:02:46] Voice 12: speak to it it's basically the proposal he has for preservation of the wetlands

[0:02:52] Voice 12: and the interior at this point um really need to say that for me to grant in terms of how best to

[0:03:01] Voice 12: sign that the

[0:03:02] Voice 3: chair say that you are welcome to discuss what you've received today uh you all

[0:03:08] Voice 3: all have it and you understand and you can go back recognizing that the public hasn't actually

[0:03:15] Voice 3: seen that yet but there'll be lots of time for the public to see that but i think just adding

[0:03:19] Voice 3: it to the agenda 18 points maybe 18.4 and then we could do 18.5 and one could go last

[0:03:29] Voice 3: okay might work best if you get at least 70

[0:03:38] Voice 13: that's

[0:03:40] Voice 7: affirmative i have that thank you

[0:03:43] Voice 13: Okay, so, and just to begin the meeting, we have a rise report for an in-camera meeting that we had last session, and that was at Burt Hall, so you may, and Dennis

[0:03:54] Voice 13: Birch were appointed to the Bureau of Board Appearance for a term ending April 24th, 2020, and we adopted the November 7th, 2024 in-camera meeting.

[0:04:03] Voice 13: So that happened at the end of the last meeting.

[0:04:06] Voice 13: So

[0:04:07] Voice 8: can I just check? So you're going to speak into public comment here?

[0:04:13] Voice 8: Yeah,

[0:04:14] Voice 9: I guess. Sure. Unless we're on the agenda.

[0:04:17] Voice 9: I don't think we can help.

[0:04:18] Voice 9: And

[0:04:19] Voice 12: he said it's out of the agenda.

[0:04:22] Voice 9: And

[0:04:23] Voice 12: we have actually got that correspondence in the record.

[0:04:26] Voice 12: record um just with your question what would be most convenient or best for you guys in terms of

[0:04:35] Voice 12: speaking to your correspondence do you want to speak earlier or do you want to have us

[0:04:39] Voice 12: have us add you to the agenda under the correspondence section

[0:04:43] Voice 12: and we speak there it's up we're totally open to that right i think they want a person

[0:04:48] Voice 9: Well, I think we could just speak

[0:04:49] Voice 12: whenever we're allowed.

[0:04:51] Voice 12: Okay.

[0:04:52] Voice 12: Yeah.

[0:04:52] Voice 9: At the earliest.

[0:04:53] Voice 9: Yeah.

[0:04:54] Voice 9: There is a .

[0:04:55] Voice 13: Yeah.

[0:04:55] Voice 13: So the letter is .

[0:04:58] Voice 13: So, yeah.

[0:04:59] Voice 13: So, well, we just have the trustee reports, and we have the town hall, so that's probably

[0:05:03] Voice 13: the best thing to get you in.

[0:05:05] Voice 13: So, perfect.

[0:05:06] Voice 13: So, that said, we have a pre-agenda, a general consent as amended.

[0:05:14] Voice 13: So, we have trustee reports.

[0:05:15] Voice 13: part. So instructing wants to enlighten us with

[0:05:18] Voice 13: get the good stuff.

[0:05:23] Voice 8: So of course, we have Trust Council on Salt Spring Island in

[0:05:31] Voice 8: June. And actually, I wrote an article in the Scribner after

[0:05:38] Voice 8: that. And it was a good meeting. And I am now the chair of the

[0:05:45] Voice 8: regional planning committee and chaired the first meeting a week or two ago because Laura Patrick

[0:05:53] Voice 8: became the chair of trust council so stood down from the regional planning committee

[0:05:58] Voice 8: and we did see a very good demo of what's called a water atlas so it was something that was long

[0:06:06] Voice 8: fabled and they had some difficulties with software but it does look pretty cool it's a way

[0:06:14] Voice 8: of kind of examining all the information about water in the islands in a kind of visual way and

[0:06:21] Voice 8: hopefully in the fall sometime that will be rolled out and be available to the public.

[0:06:28] Voice 8: I'm also working on a, I did work on tiny coals on wheels enabling those and came kind of from

[0:06:39] Voice 8: the trust but in cooperation with other regional districts and we're now talking to

[0:06:44] Voice 8: our IEP and rural island economic partnerships about maybe doing a webinar on that

[0:06:55] Voice 8: and other aspects of kind of affordable housing you know really focusing on

[0:07:01] Voice 8: the how of how to do it well then here's big man we'll read this and figure out what you can do

[0:07:07] Voice 8: it's actually the practicalities of what you can do and the only other thing I wanted to bring up

[0:07:13] Voice 8: was indeed we'll talk about it later but we are talking to Moti about possibilities of road

[0:07:22] Voice 8: improvements over and above some minor issues it's also to say to them like what kind of budget do

[0:07:28] Voice 8: you have and can we help with leverage your support to try and figure out how to increase

[0:07:34] Voice 8: increase the budget make it better I mean there are going to be huge financial pressures but

[0:07:41] Voice 8: you know we just want to make a good case so um I'm trying to find out what the whole landscape

[0:07:48] Voice 8: is around those um budgets and what what their allowances are but we can talk a little bit about

[0:07:54] Voice 8: that actually that's me I think sure

[0:07:58] Voice 12: thank you guys segue into the um ministry of transportation

[0:08:02] Voice 12: issue that i've heard now which is we've received several letters from people who are quite concerned

[0:08:07] Voice 12: that the birch hasn't been mowed uh this year which i quite agree with is an issue it's very

[0:08:13] Voice 12: dangerous from the perspective of the deer especially now that the grass frowns over and

[0:08:17] Voice 12: the deer are exactly the same color as the grass that's there right in the road when you pass by

[0:08:22] Voice 12: so you don't have any time if they do decide to move to avoid them now we've collectively written

[0:08:28] Voice 12: them racist several times i can only assume that something like them they don't have a successful

[0:08:34] Voice 12: contractor in place as well in gathering because i think the last two years i almost felt like we

[0:08:40] Voice 12: were strong along they they said it was maintenance issues and then suddenly it was all the fire

[0:08:45] Voice 12: risk is such a general law so they basically didn't move us here and it looks like they're

[0:08:51] Voice 12: not looking for this here as far as i can see we received correspondence from the manager at

[0:08:55] Voice 12: home and do I think generally it's you know the guy that tries to do a good job and as I say I

[0:09:00] Voice 12: think whatever their contracting mechanisms through MCON is that contracts the lower

[0:09:06] Voice 12: service is broken so unfortunately that's all I can report on that he was he was more or less

[0:09:12] Voice 12: honest with us in his last letter after kind of ignoring us for a while I guess because he didn't

[0:09:17] Voice 12: really have

[0:09:17] Voice 12: anything to say uh people have written to the MLA I know but I presume the MLA will get

[0:09:22] Voice 12: get the same information that we got so I'm afraid that it may be the case that once again

[0:09:28] Voice 12: we don't get the most mode this year but we're going to be well prepared for next year to just

[0:09:34] Voice 12: ensure that does not happen we want a commitment it used to happen twice a year you guys can

[0:09:38] Voice 12: probably all well remember that and now it just doesn't happen at all and so effectively and so

[0:09:45] Voice 12: let's know I mean we don't I think ask for much and that seems to me a pretty minimal

[0:09:49] Voice 12: road safety initiative it's obviously an island's trust matter but it is from the perspective of we

[0:09:57] Voice 12: do have an understanding with multi about how to preserve the rural character of the of the

[0:10:03] Voice 12: the um the island's roads but that doesn't just mean do nothing with them it means you know at

[0:10:10] Voice 12: a certain level of maintenance right so um i can we have a question i'm happy to stop for a

[0:10:15] Voice 12: question to one chair.

[0:10:19] Voice 10: Being in close contact with

[0:10:20] Voice 10: friendship with someone who makes sure

[0:10:22] Voice 10: that you go to the island

[0:10:26] Voice 10: contractors

[0:10:26] Voice 10: all around BC, they don't

[0:10:28] Voice 10: contract and

[0:10:30] Voice 10: that would be a contract of issues

[0:10:32] Voice 10: how many times they go to the road. So if they're not

[0:10:34] Voice 10: to fill in that contract, that's

[0:10:37] Voice 10: something, you know,

[0:10:38] Voice 10: whether it's a trust area

[0:10:40] Voice 10: or not, that's a very

[0:10:43] Voice 10: concrete

[0:10:45] Voice 12: yeah he did to your point he did say this is an issue throughout the south island so i presume

[0:10:51] Voice 12: we are seeing unloaded roads throughout the south i'm not sure can't particularly state

[0:10:56] Voice 12: that i have seen unloaded roads throughout the south island but anyway um another question

[0:11:01] Voice 12: yeah

[0:11:02] Voice 2: i've seen all the story um all these guys can bring up risks

[0:11:10] Voice 2: going in any direction

[0:11:12] Voice 2: for any reason.

[0:11:14] Voice 2: Who is instructing

[0:11:16] Voice 2: Modi not to do

[0:11:19] Voice 2: the cutoff? That's the question.

[0:11:21] Voice 2: I know

[0:11:22] Voice 2: the culprits.

[0:11:24] Voice 2: Not

[0:11:26] Voice 2: wishing Wafi and continue

[0:11:29] Voice 2: on doing nothing.

[0:11:31] Voice 10: Another thing I

[0:11:32] Voice 10: think that is that Northwest Bay Road

[0:11:34] Voice 10: is starting

[0:11:36] Voice 10: around Northwest Bay.

[0:11:39] Voice 10: They said the Tansy ragwort, which is starting to appear here, is marched right down there.

[0:11:44] Voice 10: So cutting at a certain time before those plants bloom out, they're toxic and they prevent

[0:11:51] Voice 10: other plants from growing.

[0:11:55] Voice 10: So it's not only the local confidence with the population, they also change the soil

[0:12:01] Voice 10: so that when the growths are cut, it's really important.

[0:12:04] Voice 10: I know staff has been kind of any roads been widened so everything's been scraped off that's

[0:12:14] Voice 10: going to be perfect for a hundred and a million cans of red horse after that so it's critical

[0:12:21] Voice 10: for about three different reasons the deer thing as far as I'm concerned I don't think

[0:12:28] Voice 10: anybody else does but fire is my more critical one and the other one is the spread of invasives

[0:12:34] Voice 10: and how you'll treat the drugs.

[0:12:36] Voice 12: So those are all good points.

[0:12:37] Voice 12: So it sounds like maybe what we need to do is get on it this winter.

[0:12:41] Voice 12: We are perhaps guilty of, we correspond.

[0:12:44] Voice 12: They've been generally very good in being responsive to us,

[0:12:47] Voice 12: particularly thanks to Mary's work with the regional manager,

[0:12:50] Voice 12: but we kind of let ourselves get strung along a little bit to this point

[0:12:54] Voice 12: where I'm just waiting for the excuse to be a fire risk.

[0:12:57] Voice 12: No, they don't do it.

[0:12:58] Voice 12: I think

[0:13:00] Voice 8: we do need to make a plan and we need to have, as they say,

[0:13:03] Voice 8: I hate that word, but it was in conversation

[0:13:06] Voice 8: before next year

[0:13:07] Voice 8: because

[0:13:09] Voice 8: the reason is, so there's a whole

[0:13:11] Voice 8: lot of constraints and parameters around

[0:13:13] Voice 8: this, which is, they went from

[0:13:15] Voice 8: two cuts to one

[0:13:17] Voice 8: and that meant, like, if we do

[0:13:20] Voice 8: it too early and it rains, then

[0:13:21] Voice 8: you know, we don't have a benefit

[0:13:24] Voice 8: and then if you do it too late

[0:13:26] Voice 8: da da da, plus the turn is

[0:13:27] Voice 8: at the end of the schedule, so they're

[0:13:29] Voice 8: working their way around the island, so we really need

[0:13:31] Voice 8: to have a conversation about how that timing is chosen.

[0:13:37] Voice 8: And then the next thing was he said the contractor

[0:13:41] Voice 8: had big mechanical breakdown issues.

[0:13:44] Voice 8: But I get the feeling that the mechanical breakdown issues

[0:13:49] Voice 8: were not being actively, proactively explained to them,

[0:13:53] Voice 8: that whoever it was was just muddling along

[0:13:56] Voice 8: and that until we raised the issue,

[0:13:58] Voice 8: he may not have even known that they weren't actually on schedule.

[0:14:01] Voice 8: so we need to have a really you know full conversation my

[0:14:06] Voice 10: point is if there's a

[0:14:07] Voice 10: provincial person um i shall get the information from my friend who is in charge of saying that um

[0:14:14] Voice 10: that the maintenance contracts are maintained so so there is somebody who oversees that kind of

[0:14:21] Voice 10: stuff yeah now we the other thing i just want to say is when we have our sort of first and only um

[0:14:31] Voice 10: meeting

[0:14:31] Voice 10: with local

[0:14:33] Voice 10: trusts, our local

[0:14:36] Voice 10: ABC, and we met

[0:14:38] Voice 10: with the Rhodes person. The

[0:14:39] Voice 10: Rhodes person that we met to,

[0:14:41] Voice 10: and I think that Rob Halloway

[0:14:43] Voice 10: happened to be that person,

[0:14:45] Voice 10: seemed very approachable

[0:14:47] Voice 10: in terms of answering questions

[0:14:50] Voice 10: directly. Remember, you weren't

[0:14:52] Voice 10: there, but we met

[0:14:53] Voice 10: out there on the picnic table. So

[0:14:55] Voice 10: whoever was that person who was in the middle

[0:14:59] Voice 10: administration person

[0:15:00] Voice 10: i think there are two

[0:15:01] Voice 8: there's their own page and sean haley

[0:15:05] Voice 8: and they both

[0:15:06] Voice 8: are in place

[0:15:06] Voice 8: yeah

[0:15:07] Voice 10: so are

[0:15:13] Voice 4: you hanging in there okay so

[0:15:15] Voice 4: do we have any fire today

[0:15:20] Voice 4: not not by the fire in the long grass

[0:15:30] Voice 4: Yeah, but that

[0:15:34] Voice 10: verge is absolutely mowed in winter coat because our path broke ours and our holes.

[0:15:40] Voice 10: But

[0:15:40] Voice 12: just up to winter coat, because I was part of it, exactly as you said, sir.

[0:15:44] Voice 12: It's like before winter coat, the grass was long and all these cars were on exhaust for parking.

[0:15:49] Voice 12: because because of that reason and so yeah yeah we really need to like these two guys owen and

[0:15:56] Voice 12: sean have been very responsive to us in regards pat like we we really got on about the trees cut

[0:16:01] Voice 12: almost 50 trees cut down and that kind of reset the relationship but now it seems to have gone

[0:16:05] Voice 12: back to yeah

[0:16:06] Voice 8: unless you keep like we almost need to say we want an update every six weeks or

[0:16:11] Voice 8: something about what's going on anyway

[0:16:13] Voice 13: because the thing is but there's a reality with with

[0:16:16] Voice 13: the business so you know it's not that there's only one way is is you know is that there are

[0:16:22] Voice 13: many contractors and there there are many machines out there so you know if if you have kind of

[0:16:29] Voice 13: struggling with one contract with one more like the ministry should be pushing them to go elsewhere

[0:16:35] Voice 13: because yeah like we're fortunate are you finished with your oh yeah i can yeah the other stuff will

[0:16:49] Voice 13: I know they were going two weeks ago so that might have been where the equipment broke down

[0:17:00] Voice 13: so they have been on the island small main island no we have not been mowed but we have

[0:17:06] Voice 13: have the benefit, and I say sarcastically with quotation marks, of

[0:17:11] Voice 13: having a vast amount

[0:17:12] Voice 13: of deer, both fallow and blacktail, who actually are keeping the shoulders relatively low.

[0:17:19] Voice 13: I think it was last week I was over on Salt Spring, side of the road, side of the highway.

[0:17:23] Voice 13: You go to Main Island, side of the road, side of the highway. The deer actually are doing

[0:17:28] Voice 13: a pretty good job. So if Saterna wants any, we can make an arrangement with BC Fairies

[0:17:34] Voice 13: to bring over a couple of hundreds.

[0:17:37] Voice 8: I have to say I appreciate the danger, the fire danger,

[0:17:43] Voice 8: the deer jumping out. Even people walking on the road, they tend to step out of the way of the car,

[0:17:49] Voice 8: they don't know where they're stepping to, which I think is for me the most important one.

[0:17:54] Voice 8: But anyway, I also actually quite like unknown verges. I suppose I come from Ireland,

[0:18:03] Voice 8: for unknown verges would be the normal it rains a lot so it's okay you know so anyway

[0:18:10] Voice 8: that

[0:18:11] Voice 12: has happened before where because we have this agreement with

[0:18:14] Voice 12: multi to not mow the alamas which is normally what they do they go 66 feet from the center

[0:18:21] Voice 12: um and that people on the golf course don't like that because that's basically you know

[0:18:28] Voice 12: obliterates any hetero and so that that's what our agreement says is we ask for this very modest

[0:18:34] Voice 12: you know three to four foot strip of cut grass on the side of the road that's that's all there's one

[0:18:40] Voice 12: passable literally they drive one way and it's done and so so we have to be careful that they

[0:18:46] Voice 12: don't get all snarky with us and just decide to completely obliterate you know like um because

[0:18:51] Voice 12: that would have gone and they know that so i think

[0:18:54] Voice 13: it's a substantial issue of it's serious

[0:18:58] Voice 13: um and modi i think has to sort of review the contractual and publications because

[0:19:03] Voice 13: in the last two years may not end up mode in september so it was basically they're they're

[0:19:09] Voice 13: literally they're not going anything so

[0:19:11] Voice 8: should we have a southern gulf island better um to send them

[0:19:19] Voice 13: to

[0:19:19] Voice 8: raise our concern and that we want to discuss the plan for next year

[0:19:24] Voice 12: certainly because you know

[0:19:26] Voice 12: regarding invasive species that's a very good point that was raised that i cannot really

[0:19:30] Voice 12: consider it makes total sense to hide the moving around as well we

[0:19:36] Voice 13: also have that

[0:19:36] Voice 13: i think the end of august yeah so like reach out i think that marce was sharing that

[0:19:42] Voice 13: and get put on that agenda but also but right now i think it's time

[0:19:47] Voice 13: it's to circulate it in venereal amongst the trustees and say hey you want to sign on to this

[0:19:53] Voice 13: because

[0:19:53] Voice 8: the owner is saturn and um soul spring and i don't know who the others are

[0:19:58] Voice 8: okay i'll do those two things okay

[0:20:03] Voice 13: so otherwise other things with the dallas trust is trust policy

[0:20:07] Voice 13: statement first draft we're looking forward to perhaps doing first reading next wednesday

[0:20:14] Voice 13: or is it Wednesday?

[0:20:16] Voice 13: It's a Tuesday.

[0:20:16] Voice 13: I can't remember.

[0:20:18] Voice 13: 29.

[0:20:19] Voice 13: 29.

[0:20:21] Voice 13: Everything's on.

[0:20:21] Voice 13: Anyway, next week,

[0:20:22] Voice 13: really close.

[0:20:26] Voice 13: And unfortunately,

[0:20:27] Voice 13: they've scheduled seven hours

[0:20:29] Voice 13: for the meetings.

[0:20:29] Voice 13: Tuesday.

[0:20:30] Voice 13: Next Tuesday.

[0:20:32] Voice 13: I'm hoping it's not seven hours.

[0:20:34] Voice 13: The trust policy statement,

[0:20:35] Voice 13: I believe we have developed

[0:20:37] Voice 13: into an acceptable draft

[0:20:38] Voice 13: to circulate

[0:20:40] Voice 13: post first reading.

[0:20:42] Voice 13: So I'm hoping

[0:20:43] Voice 13: that we're not we're swimming for seven hours next tuesday i will you can make the motion

[0:20:49] Voice 13: for first reading rainbow and start meeting in 30 minutes so i'll challenge you to that i'm honest

[0:20:56] Voice 13: uh but so anyhow trust policy statement's rolling along quite well um we um last week got a new

[0:21:04] Voice 13: minister um again so we're back at the beginning of the phase uh we were supposed to expect that

[0:21:14] Voice 13: the day that the premier announced the canada change we asked we're supposed to have a meeting

[0:21:18] Voice 13: with the minister so unfortunately it got cancelled so we're trying to reschedule that

[0:21:25] Voice 13: meeting um with the minister just for introductions but it's it's hard because

[0:21:31] Voice 13: all the ministers it's it's it's difficult if you don't have your ministers so we shall see um

[0:21:41] Voice 13: we of course won't be meeting before uh trust council uh that's coming up in september

[0:21:47] Voice 13: it's gonna be another busy one there's a lot there's so much stuff on our plate

[0:21:52] Voice 13: um we're making progress but slowly yeah where

[0:21:58] Voice 8: is this oh it's gabrielle

[0:22:00] Voice 8: behavioral

[0:22:00] Voice 13: at this time um okay so and last one was on the salt spring which was

[0:22:06] Voice 13: uh salt springs it's busy because there's a large population so we get a lot of public input

[0:22:13] Voice 13: on salt spring it's uh they tend to be long drawn out meetings so

[0:22:19] Voice 13: looking forward to being privileged

[0:22:23] Voice 13: um i see so

[0:22:25] Voice 10: we all have a meeting here on saturn for your proposed trust policy statement oh yeah

[0:22:29] Voice 13: done yeah so basically each local trust committee is basically customizing how it's done so some um

[0:22:39] Voice 13: i think it was since self-penders not doing anything um all the local trustees that i'm

[0:22:46] Voice 13: involved with are doing something online for engagement well

[0:22:51] Voice 15: it

[0:22:52] Voice 13: can be a community forum

[0:22:53] Voice 13: it can be an information meeting it can be it can take any type of performance up to local

[0:22:59] Voice 13: the trustees to figure out okay

[0:23:01] Voice 10: so this is this is the chance for us it's not written in stone now

[0:23:09] Voice 13: yeah so basically first reading is like trust council's done the best job it can right we do

[0:23:18] Voice 13: first reading and now it goes out for a consultation so it goes back to first nations

[0:23:22] Voice 13: local government and and local community so i think the first thing you'll see and you're

[0:23:27] Voice 10: anticipating a few months from now or for saturn

[0:23:31] Voice 8: i don't

[0:23:32] Voice 13: know do you have to schedule anything

[0:23:33] Voice 13: i would

[0:23:34] Voice 8: say i was looking at it yesterday so this is the first the agenda for next tuesday which i

[0:23:41] Voice 8: can circulate here on saturn and it's the first time that a draft has been presented that doesn't

[0:23:48] Voice 8: have red lines edits things not adopted so it's truly the first possibly our first but it's the

[0:23:56] Voice 8: current over the last few years it's the first time that it's like this is as it is yeah

[0:24:03] Voice 8: so

[0:24:04] Voice 8: so it was always available publicly but it would have had edits and red lines so now this is a

[0:24:10] Voice 8: clean draft let's say so that is in the agenda and as far as i know in the agenda in this again

[0:24:16] Voice 8: no in the one for next tuesday and i'll circulate it tonight to all the tutorials

[0:24:23] Voice 8: and it uh it actually has as far as i know everyone can't swear to this because i haven't

[0:24:30] Voice 8: gone that far but it will have the kind of proposed communications plan in there how it

[0:24:35] Voice 8: would be wrote out and that will give you an idea like island by island you know do you want this

[0:24:41] Voice 8: do you want public meetings you want you know workshop whatever so there's a kind of a big

[0:24:46] Voice 8: table and island by island all the options tick tick tick so it's very it's very like it's been

[0:24:55] Voice 8: worked through and thought of multiple multiple times because after all this started in 2019

[0:25:02] Voice 8: so it's a very big thing to review so yeah it's actually quite clean and it's about 20 pages

[0:25:12] Voice 8: is and I believe it's readable and understandable and I think it's, you know,

[0:25:20] Voice 8: it'll never be 100%

[0:25:22] Voice 8: what anybody wants but it's not a bad, you know, yeah. And we are maintaining, preserving, protecting

[0:25:28] Voice 8: our community. Of course, Priscilla.

[0:25:32] Voice 13: Likely the first thing the community will see on the audio

[0:25:35] Voice 13: your communications it's a mailers going in every mailbox i'm assuming in the next week or so

[0:25:43] Voice 13: basically to put it on people's radar they're also there will be um on every island it'll be

[0:25:49] Voice 13: at a library or something um a mailing survey form so so who are not online or can't attend

[0:25:58] Voice 13: meetings or left still have this self-addressed um mailer that'll be going so there'll be lots

[0:26:05] Voice 13: of opportunities and basically speaking the goal is to get this thing finished about a year from

[0:26:11] Voice 13: now so it's not like 30 days of the consultation period we're done there's there's there's at least

[0:26:18] Voice 13: six or eight months for feedback then it gets consolidated and then we meet again and we and

[0:26:24] Voice 13: we get on another part of it um and then we do final readings then it goes to the minister for

[0:26:29] Voice 13: approved but it goes in a total different lens there so there's a lot of opportunities and

[0:26:35] Voice 13: if anybody tells me they have not been heard i would be shocked well that's

[0:26:41] Voice 10: comforting thank you

[0:26:45] Voice 13: absolutely so that will include my report um i see our electoral director is not in attendance so

[0:26:53] Voice 13: we won't be hearing from him today so now we have town hall so town hall is pretty straightforward

[0:26:58] Voice 13: board, as you all know,

[0:27:00] Voice 13: we'll let you

[0:27:02] Voice 13: address the local trust committee.

[0:27:06] Voice 13: We don't,

[0:27:06] Voice 13: we're supposed to have time.

[0:27:08] Voice 13: So,

[0:27:09] Voice 13: I guess, I would say stick to the point

[0:27:12] Voice 13: and keep it brief.

[0:27:13] Voice 13: And the other

[0:27:13] Voice 12: thing to add is

[0:27:15] Voice 12: we do engage, normally you don't

[0:27:17] Voice 12: have a back and forth. You would say peace

[0:27:19] Voice 12: and we would all sit silently and move on

[0:27:21] Voice 12: but we treat it more as

[0:27:23] Voice 12: a dialogue here to go back and forth with some

[0:27:25] Voice 12: of the issues.

[0:27:26] Voice 12: So, we will certainly engage

[0:27:28] Voice 12: engage with anybody who raises issues of

[0:27:32] Voice 13: importance this is a terrible so um and the other thing if

[0:27:38] Voice 13: somebody has an application that's within we'll be dealing with that at the time with the applicants

[0:27:44] Voice 13: but if somebody wants to find out on an application the time to speak is now if you're not if you're

[0:27:50] Voice 13: not the actual applicant so anyhow i'm assuming that you're first me are

[0:27:55] Voice 13: you okay so

[0:27:56] Voice 9: uh al and

[0:28:00] Voice 9: patricia d joseph we live at 200 cliffside road uh and we're here today not just for us but for any

[0:28:08] Voice 9: rural property owners um we're here to get some clarification what what is the ocp the official

[0:28:16] Voice 9: community plan and does it basically constitute a contract between the residents and businesses

[0:28:24] Voice 9: and their neighbors and community is that a function of the official community plan

[0:28:30] Voice 9: kind of in a nutshell would you agree well

[0:28:34] Voice 13: yeah you want to give us sort of a planner's perspective

[0:28:37] Voice 13: through

[0:28:38] Voice 15: the chair my description of the oscp would be a set of policies that are meant to direct the

[0:28:44] Voice 3: overall vision and approach that the community has to the various aspects right

[0:28:51] Voice 9: and who's in

[0:28:53] Voice 9: charge of enforcement and implementation of the official community plan so

[0:28:59] Voice 3: declared by the ocp is

[0:29:00] Voice 3: a broad set of policies and under the ocp the policies of the official community plan is

[0:29:09] Voice 3: is exercised through mostly the land use by-law,

[0:29:13] Voice 3: which then provides zoning and permitted uses

[0:29:16] Voice 3: and siting and set-ups and a lot of other provisions.

[0:29:20] Voice 3: By-law enforcement staff would be ultimately

[0:29:26] Voice 3: who is tasked with ensuring that by-law infractions

[0:29:34] Voice 3: and corrections are against.

[0:29:35] Voice 3: And

[0:29:36] Voice 9: a TUP, or a temporary use permit, it basically lasts two terms of three years, is that correct?

[0:29:49] Voice 3: Temporary use permit can be issued for up to three years, and then it can be renewed one time for an

[0:29:54] Voice 3: additional period of up to three years.

[0:29:57] Voice 3: And

[0:29:57] Voice 9: also the thing.

[0:30:05] Voice 9: And so, also the same people are in charge of enforcing that the temporary use permit is being adhered to, but whatever to be upon between the parties, their permit issue is being implemented.

[0:30:24] Voice 9: mentioned okay um if the temporary use permit is allowed to extend past two terms is that not

[0:30:32] Voice 9: changing zoning without having to change zone no

[0:30:39] Voice 3: it's giving is issuing another temporary use right

[0:30:42] Voice 3: but then to be clear they would have to reapply and have a new permit issue so you can't extend

[0:30:49] Voice 3: out to the first extension, it becomes a completely new permit, just to clarify.

[0:30:56] Voice 5: So can

[0:30:57] Voice 3: that continue on?

[0:30:58] Voice 3: So temporary use permits

[0:30:59] Voice 15: can be issued indefinitely.

[0:31:03] Voice 9: So what is the point of a temporary use permit if you're changing zoning by allowing a temporary

[0:31:12] Voice 9: use permit to continue on?

[0:31:14] Voice 9: The

[0:31:16] Voice 3: intended purpose of a temporary use permit is to enable temporary use

[0:31:21] Voice 15: on a land base

[0:31:23] Voice 15: to other tests for compatibility, you know, with and with the community.

[0:31:31] Voice 3: And what was your question?

[0:31:34] Voice 9: The question was, what's the point of a temporary use permit if it's allowed to continue indefinitely

[0:31:41] Voice 9: and basically change the zoning?

[0:31:44] Voice 9: That's not

[0:31:44] Voice 3: really for me to answer.

[0:31:45] Voice 3: That's more for each case when those temporary use permits are being,

[0:31:49] Voice 3: like, for example, they often use for short-term vacation rentals

[0:31:53] Voice 3: to enable someone to rent out their property

[0:31:57] Voice 3: where they couldn't otherwise through a long-distance relationship.

[0:32:00] Voice 3: So sometimes they're used to the absence of zoning

[0:32:07] Voice 3: or instead of zoning, a temporary use permit does allow you to set detailed conditions

[0:32:16] Voice 3: in the permit that are not otherwise typically, you know, zoning bylaws are much higher levels,

[0:32:26] Voice 3: so they wouldn't get down to the specifics of, say, operating hours or, you know, screening

[0:32:31] Voice 3: or, you know, so a temporary use permit, the local trust committee has full discretion

[0:32:38] Voice 3: on the conditions in that permit.

[0:32:41] Voice 9: Okay, thank you.

[0:32:43] Voice 9: So I just wanted to get that in my brain.

[0:32:47] Voice 9: So we own a 0.71 acre property in a rural residential area.

[0:32:52] Voice 9: We build permits and qualified tradespeople, and we had over 80 people on our property

[0:33:00] Voice 9: developing 200 cliffside road even though it's very little we have a um a responsible expectation

[0:33:08] Voice 9: that and a reasonable expectation excuse me that when we bought our rural residential property that

[0:33:16] Voice 9: our neighbors would be rural residential owners then next to us at the lot 198 jasco corporation

[0:33:26] Voice 9: the corporation buys the lot and doesn't tell us their intentions.

[0:33:34] Voice 9: They don't inform the neighbors of their intentions.

[0:33:37] Voice 9: They don't inform the community to allow feedback until it's already done.

[0:33:42] Voice 9: They hook up the septic to the trailer.

[0:33:45] Voice 9: They build a little observation room that they hook up the septic to.

[0:33:50] Voice 9: They basically don't pay attention to any of the regulations

[0:33:54] Voice 9: that are in the OCP on how to deal with their property.

[0:33:59] Voice 9: And I will stress conveniently or inconveniently

[0:34:03] Voice 9: in our case, misplaced their paperwork

[0:34:06] Voice 9: and could not find it.

[0:34:07] Voice 9: And it was placed in a unknown drawer.

[0:34:13] Voice 9: And unfortunately the planner was conveniently on vacation

[0:34:19] Voice 9: when they're drilling operations from it up

[0:34:22] Voice 9: to drill into the foreshore and into the the seabed and then um so the planner wasn't around

[0:34:31] Voice 9: to answer any questions as to why this was happening because none of us knew what was

[0:34:34] Voice 9: going to happen and then the planner retired and i believe you came on board

[0:34:40] Voice 9: and um the drilling company was there for almost three weeks they shook our every picture

[0:34:48] Voice 9: a seal on our wall. They shook door hinges out of our doors. That's how bad the drilling was.

[0:34:55] Voice 9: And we fought tooth and nail to get the violence trust to issue a temporary use permit. We fought

[0:35:05] Voice 9: tooth and nail to get the CRD to admit that there was no occupancy permit in the building.

[0:35:11] Voice 9: And eventually, we got to the point where there was a temporary use permit issued by the violence

[0:35:16] Voice 9: trust and the scope and the scope of the and the island's trust it allowed it and and defined a

[0:35:26] Voice 9: very specific scope of work that was to be done in the program there was to be quiet observation

[0:35:33] Voice 9: only people coming checking the equipment leaving that was it so um that's what they were going to

[0:35:43] Voice 9: Now, this is a .70 acre property that has a multi-million dollar contract on it, and it's operating a multi-million dollar operation on a rural residential lot that until this year, when they got an occupancy permit, they were paying bare land taxes on, in a multi-million dollar operation.

[0:36:08] Voice 10: So

[0:36:08] Voice 9: you're asking us for more taxes, but where are the taxes that they should be paying on

[0:36:13] Voice 9: this commercial operation that they're running in a rural residential area?

[0:36:17] Voice 9: I mean, that should be addressed.

[0:36:22] Voice 9: And under the commercial lot size, because it's supposed to be a three acre property

[0:36:28] Voice 9: that's commercial, I believe.

[0:36:30] Voice 9: So there's no screening, they're not paying taxes except for bare land.

[0:36:35] Voice 9: And now this April, an employee shows up in April, Halloween, and she starts living in the building that has an occupancy permit.

[0:36:48] Voice 9: Now, the temporary use permit doesn't talk about an employee living and working in the building.

[0:36:58] Voice 9: All of this multimillion dollar infrastructure is piped right into this building.

[0:37:04] Voice 9: So it's got proprietary information

[0:37:06] Voice 9: piped in there. This is all

[0:37:08] Voice 9: transport Canada paying bill.

[0:37:10] Voice 9: This is all the

[0:37:12] Voice 9: shipping noise and everything that's going

[0:37:14] Voice 9: on. It's not

[0:37:16] Voice 9: for a general

[0:37:18] Voice 9: person. I'm sure that there's

[0:37:20] Voice 9: contracts involved in privacy

[0:37:22] Voice 9: on that end and keeping

[0:37:24] Voice 9: track of that information.

[0:37:26] Voice 9: So we

[0:37:28] Voice 9: contacted

[0:37:28] Voice 9: Representative Lee Middleton

[0:37:32] Voice 9: and JASCO, according to him, said that it was just a student working on her thesis as a guest.

[0:37:42] Voice 9: And we knew that to be untrue.

[0:37:44] Voice 9: This is an employee of JASCO, and we gave you that information.

[0:37:52] Voice 9: And so they had an opportunity, and once again, in JASCO's way, they lied.

[0:37:59] Voice 9: So now how can we trust anything that's happening?

[0:38:03] Voice 9: at that house because we've had six years of fighting tooth and nail to figure out what's

[0:38:08] Voice 9: going on next door and in the meantime what's our property value worth having a commercial

[0:38:14] Voice 9: property next door when we're supposed to have a rural residential neighbor which we did for years

[0:38:19] Voice 9: and they were great so again we have to be here today to try and figure out what's going on next

[0:38:29] Voice 9: store. And when Al was at the market, a young lady came up to him and said that her friend

[0:38:37] Voice 9: April was living at the Whale Research Center here on Saterna. That's just so. So is there

[0:38:46] Voice 9: a Whale Research Center on Saterna now that we don't know anything about? And so I don't

[0:38:53] Voice 9: think that, you know, we need to get to the bottom of what's happening. Next year, their

[0:38:57] Voice 9: temporary use permit is up for their extension so if we sold our property we would have to disclose

[0:39:06] Voice 9: what's happening next door so i think it's very important that the island's trust give us all the

[0:39:12] Voice 9: information so that we would have proper information to give in a real estate setting

[0:39:19] Voice 9: or we could be sued for lying about what's happening next door and somebody has a reasonable

[0:39:24] Voice 9: expectation of knowing what's happening next door. So now, this corporation, with no tax

[0:39:33] Voice 9: on the community, operates the commercial enterprise. They have an employee living there,

[0:39:38] Voice 9: and there are many other people using the property with them. There's no screening.

[0:39:45] Voice 9: They're now running up and down the lot. Okay. Take pictures of whales. So they're running

[0:39:52] Voice 9: move down a lot with big long lens cameras unfortunately our dogs are not used to any

[0:39:58] Voice 9: activity next door our dogs bark at everything yes deer otters eagles anything that moves but this

[0:40:06] Voice 9: is a different level of uh panic to them because they're dogs so now actually our dog just

[0:40:14] Voice 9: has been so upset and jumped and herniated the disc in the back so we've just spent 700

[0:40:21] Voice 9: hundred dollars in vet bills because this dog is so freaked out about the activity next door it's

[0:40:26] Voice 9: quieted down in the past couple weeks i would tell you that yeah so you've issued a temporary

[0:40:35] Voice 9: use permit for basically a commercial operation but they don't have any screening now and we're

[0:40:41] Voice 9: supposed to just be, you know, allowed, or just be, you know, looked the other way. And we would

[0:40:56] Voice 9: like to answer, we have everything invested here. We are invested in this community. We live here,

[0:41:05] Voice 9: here, we work here, we donate here, we pay our

[0:41:08] Voice 9: taxes, and we would like to also say that

[0:41:15] Voice 9: this multi-million dollar corporation that has this multi-million dollar contract, which

[0:41:23] Voice 9: they say is for the whales, is really a listening station for the marine traffic, which we can

[0:41:28] Voice 9: all agree has only increased since they've been there.

[0:41:32] Voice 9: and five years ago there was 13 emaciated southern resident killer whales now all the jaypod and all

[0:41:39] Voice 9: the k-pop are emaciated and we're listening that's that's what we're doing and the ships are just

[0:41:46] Voice 9: spewing all that crap on our heads every day into our groundwater onto our soil into our children's

[0:41:53] Voice 9: lungs and the only thing that's happened since they've been there is traffic's doubled and it

[0:42:00] Voice 9: will increase 60% more than if they're allowing Roberts Bank to go

[0:42:04] Voice 9: forward. So we're listening to the death

[0:42:07] Voice 9: of the southern resident killer whales, and we're watching them

[0:42:11] Voice 9: starve to death. And that money, which is nothing to do

[0:42:16] Voice 9: with you, but those multi-million dollars could have been a great

[0:42:20] Voice 9: boost to enforcement on the water and restoring

[0:42:23] Voice 9: habitat, as opposed to listening,

[0:42:26] Voice 9: and they don't even have

[0:42:28] Voice 9: out a report saying what their business is doing to help the witness. So I don't believe

[0:42:38] Voice 9: that it's a benefit to the citations. I don't believe it's a benefit to the community. And

[0:42:47] Voice 9: I don't believe they're paying a fair share as a business on Saturna. I don't know what

[0:42:52] Voice 9: other corporate taxes are but i imagine it's higher and they got to come in put in a commercial

[0:42:59] Voice 9: operation look in the rural residential area and not get taxed on any of it and our taxes went up

[0:43:07] Voice 9: and you guys are getting more money i know you don't really want it but you know you got to go

[0:43:12] Voice 9: with the flow everybody's and and so i'd like to know what can be done to stop the employee

[0:43:21] Voice 9: act to be nestled, which is, again, what the temporary use permit said was going to be

[0:43:26] Voice 9: happening there.

[0:43:28] Voice 14: I have just a couple of comments.

[0:43:31] Voice 14: We had met with the vice president or president of JASCO, Dave Haney, and we've had conversations

[0:43:43] Voice 14: with him.

[0:43:44] Voice 14: We actually brought in Ron Monk to do a mediation between us and JASCO, and he promised to be

[0:43:52] Voice 14: was going to put a fence up. Lied.

[0:43:54] Voice 14: Didn't do it. Promises

[0:43:56] Voice 14: he's going to restore the property to its

[0:43:58] Voice 14: original shape.

[0:44:00] Voice 14: Hasn't done it.

[0:44:02] Voice 14: Has had a

[0:44:04] Voice 14: broken septic system there for years

[0:44:07] Voice 14: which supposedly

[0:44:08] Voice 14: they finally finished

[0:44:09] Voice 14: but there's still an open septic

[0:44:12] Voice 14: pipe where they haven't tripped.

[0:44:16] Voice 14: That's not right.

[0:44:17] Voice 14: And I don't know about anybody else

[0:44:20] Voice 14: in this room but I can't imagine

[0:44:21] Voice 14: in anybody or any organization on this island has gotten a dime from them they've not put any money

[0:44:29] Voice 14: back into this island people who live and work here but we're all invested here we're putting

[0:44:35] Voice 14: money in into this community it has a rural residential community and now we have to fight

[0:44:44] Voice 14: tooth and nail it's going to be six years they're there and i don't think they should be issued

[0:44:49] Voice 14: another temporary use permit i think it's ridiculous get two and you're out they're

[0:44:54] Voice 14: getting paid three million dollars a year they're not putting a nickel of that back in this community

[0:45:02] Voice 14: that's all i have to say

[0:45:04] Voice 12: and first of all my apologies i didn't um i made the assumption

[0:45:09] Voice 12: you were going to come and speak after the other letter but i didn't actually confirm that

[0:45:13] Voice 12: and so in case you're wondering why you didn't hear back from me that's my error i should have

[0:45:18] Voice 12: said hey okay i didn't realize you had this information you need to come and speak to us

[0:45:22] Voice 12: about it and we'll carry on from there but i don't think i actually said that part to you so

[0:45:27] Voice 12: i'm glad

[0:45:27] Voice 12: you're here thank you for coming and uh yeah some of this is indeed new information and

[0:45:33] Voice 12: and the history the genesis of it what you're right it was in many ways quite poorly done in

[0:45:39] Voice 12: the sense that suddenly there was an offshore drilling rig um none of us knew anything about

[0:45:45] Voice 12: it and when we inquired we were told this is federal jurisdiction you have to buy out we have

[0:45:49] Voice 12: no say here the feds will just override you so um so we thought okay that's that's not very

[0:45:56] Voice 12: neighborly either is it and so so you know trying to make of that situation what we could is what

[0:46:04] Voice 12: led i think to the term of use permits i think less than ideal but i appreciate you bringing up

[0:46:09] Voice 12: what you're now bringing up and talking about what happens next my understanding was that

[0:46:14] Voice 12: had a four-year contract uh that may be we may have to make sure that they

[0:46:20] Voice 9: react so it's coming

[0:46:25] Voice 12: yeah so i think maybe what we haven't suggested we need to

[0:46:30] Voice 12: do go because i'm not familiar to be probably honest with the wording of the of the tup now

[0:46:36] Voice 12: Now, okay, so

[0:46:38] Voice 3: for the chat.

[0:46:41] Voice 3: So the conditions of the permit are pretty limited.

[0:46:46] Voice 15: The plan is

[0:46:46] Voice 15: permitted in part to a shall be limited to the existing

[0:46:49] Voice 15: infrastructure schedule that which is basically

[0:46:52] Voice 4: the plan is

[0:46:54] Voice 15: permitted in part to a shall be limited to the existing

[0:46:57] Voice 15: infrastructure to get later, which is just a map of the

[0:47:01] Voice 15: auxiliary building and the lines. Any additional construction activity or installation of

[0:47:08] Voice 15: infrastructure associated with the permitted

[0:47:10] Voice 3: land use in the upland lot would require an amendment

[0:47:12] Voice 3: to schedule it. That's the condition. In respect of having someone living on the property,

[0:47:21] Voice 3: now that they have an occupancy permit, there's no limit to having someone live on that property,

[0:47:26] Voice 3: whether it is an employee of that corporation or not.

[0:47:33] Voice 3: And the owner is asking about what his next steps are

[0:47:39] Voice 3: in respect of either seeking outright rezoning,

[0:47:42] Voice 3: another temporary use permit,

[0:47:44] Voice 3: or now that the local trust committee has amended the bylaw

[0:47:51] Voice 3: to allow the hydroacoustic activity to occur in the Water 1 zone outright,

[0:47:57] Voice 3: they could meet the whole occupation regulations if they had an employee that was living there

[0:48:03] Voice 3: managing the activity it is also understood or at least we have pretty

[0:48:15] Voice 3: strong legal advice that it is a federally regulated activity and that whatever we're

[0:48:22] Voice 3: doing with these instruments doesn't really matter that they would be likely unenforceable

[0:48:27] Voice 3: in court as all of the activities

[0:48:29] Voice 3: are

[0:48:30] Voice 3: a subset of

[0:48:33] Voice 3: federal activities

[0:48:35] Voice 3: which are

[0:48:36] Voice 3: not

[0:48:39] Voice 3: required to adhere to local

[0:48:41] Voice 3: law.

[0:48:42] Voice 3: So the

[0:48:44] Voice 9: feds basically

[0:48:45] Voice 9: took over a lot,

[0:48:46] Voice 9: a rural residential lot on Saturn.

[0:48:49] Voice 9: We have to meet.

[0:48:50] Voice 9: I didn't say that.

[0:48:52] Voice 9: So

[0:48:53] Voice 8: are you saying that

[0:48:55] Voice 8: the instruments that are under the

[0:48:57] Voice 8: the water effectively are federal?

[0:48:59] Voice 3: I'm saying the whole operation is a federal operation and

[0:49:04] Voice 3: federal activities are not subject to local government regulation and so

[0:49:13] Voice 3: despite it being a contract there's a contractor who's directly carrying out federal government

[0:49:20] Voice 3: activities so but so all so so yours only doesn't apply to to the to the activities that they are

[0:49:30] Voice 3: undertaking as part of a federal but

[0:49:33] Voice 8: do you think though that like so this has to be the general use

[0:49:37] Voice 8: parameters to be renewed and even though it's a federally governed activity in that renewal we

[0:49:46] Voice 8: would have to make a case for value for what was being conducted there like they would have to

[0:49:54] Voice 8: listen to a case for against the value i would

[0:49:59] Voice 3: say flipping that that regardless of whether

[0:50:02] Voice 3: you issue a temporary use permit or not they can carry out the activities that they're contracting

[0:50:09] Voice 3: Arctic to do. So the

[0:50:14] Voice 10: land has been subfunded?

[0:50:15] Voice 3: No, the land has not been subfunded. The zoning

[0:50:18] Voice 3: still applies. All the other residential zoning applies. But for that particular federally

[0:50:25] Voice 3: regulated activity, zoning and all the other regulations do not apply.

[0:50:33] Voice 3: law. Just like on all your birth plans, it's also determined, here's a good example, all

[0:50:42] Voice 3: your national birth plans, they're not, none

[0:50:45] Voice 15: of our zoning

[0:50:45] Voice 3: or regulations apply. They don't

[0:50:48] Voice 3: need to go on permits. They don't need, they're not subject to local government law. And that's

[0:50:54] Voice 3: just the mandate of how a community law is set up.

[0:50:58] Voice 13: The example in Maine Island is that when we had RCMP before they left the island, they rented a house.

[0:51:07] Voice 13: The

[0:51:08] Voice 4: Royal Canadian

[0:51:09] Voice 13: Mounted Police had a station on Maine Island that was in a residential house in a residential neighbourhood with full cells, full everything.

[0:51:17] Voice 13: And nobody could do anything about it because they were a federal operation.

[0:51:22] Voice 13: So literally they were running a police station in the middle of the neighbourhood.

[0:51:25] Voice 13: But the thing I would suggest, for those who have a concern, is it sounds like that perhaps

[0:51:32] Voice 13: the place to be talking at this point would be with Elizabeth May's office as your federal

[0:51:37] Voice 13: MP.

[0:51:39] Voice 13: Because it sounds like we're kind of handcuffed as to basically what we can and cannot do.

[0:51:46] Voice 13: Let's go

[0:51:46] Voice 3: back through the chair.

[0:51:47] Voice 3: So I think the LTC is really unable to do anything.

[0:51:54] Voice 3: And by establishing TEP, at least they tried to create some regulatory ability to regulate those activities.

[0:52:08] Voice 3: But when push came to shove, if this temporary use permit went to court for some non-compliance

[0:52:17] Voice 3: or whatever, the court would find almost guaranteed that it is a federal activity and you're

[0:52:25] Voice 3: not going to be able to sue.

[0:52:26] Voice 3: So that's the difficult place that you're elected.

[0:52:30] Voice 3: Just so you understand that.

[0:52:31] Voice 3: I understand the difficult place that you guys are.

[0:52:33] Voice 3: Absolutely.

[0:52:34] Voice 3: There's a property where all of a sudden you have these activities that are going to

[0:52:37] Voice 3: decide them they really don't give a so i empathize with that but just so that you understand uh your

[0:52:43] Voice 15: your elected officials have tried to do everything they can and i think that probably if

[0:52:48] Voice 15: they did have some zoning authority maybe they there would be screening requirements all those

[0:52:53] Voice 15: other but asking even asking the property owner to do a whole bunch of things when they really

[0:53:00] Voice 15: don't have to do anything uh it's just so you understand they're in difficult places

[0:53:08] Voice 4: people

[0:53:09] Voice 3: who have

[0:53:10] Voice 4: a little bit

[0:53:12] Voice 15: trustee

[0:53:13] Voice 3: they

[0:53:14] Voice 15: don't really have any

[0:53:15] Voice 15: they understand and they have

[0:53:17] Voice 15: similar concerns around like this

[0:53:20] Voice 15: you know commercial activity in a sense

[0:53:22] Voice 15: happening in a residential

[0:53:23] Voice 15: area but they have

[0:53:26] Voice 15: no actual tea

[0:53:27] Voice 15: to do anything about it because

[0:53:30] Voice 3: at the end of the day

[0:53:34] Voice 3: they have

[0:53:35] Voice 12: no tea

[0:53:35] Voice 12: so just you know there's there's a slight i think i'm i'm very much appreciate you guys

[0:53:41] Voice 12: came today because it's always better to hear about the impact in person when you speak in

[0:53:46] Voice 12: person than sending an email it's good but this is bad so thank you for coming and here's what i

[0:53:52] Voice 12: think we you know we were in the position as as chelsea smith points out at the beginning

[0:53:58] Voice 12: but we basically appealed to him as the owner of the law and or the vice president of the company

[0:54:03] Voice 12: whatever his role is even though it's a federal contract to your guys i think uh but you know

[0:54:09] Voice 12: baffling it's not a federal piece of land it's not a privately owned bag so there's yeah so there's

[0:54:16] Voice 12: there's sort of a wedge there in my view and you know they were not required to take out a

[0:54:23] Voice 12: temporary use permit and we thought that at the time as smith suggested it was the only tool we

[0:54:28] Voice 12: had to maybe put some structure around what they did and you know you could the drilling was you

[0:54:35] Voice 12: know outrageous there's no question there was no there was no i don't know how you would modify

[0:54:39] Voice 12: that or make that okay that just happened and that was really without notifying anybody in the

[0:54:45] Voice 12: neighborhood that was not good i think they recognized that and were willing to work with

[0:54:50] Voice 12: us on the lawnmower on the temporary use permit but it maybe is the case that now the requirements

[0:54:55] Voice 12: are not sufficient to mitigate the impact on the neighborhood.

[0:55:00] Voice 12: And my thinking is that, you know, he can,

[0:55:05] Voice 12: can he always say no?

[0:55:06] Voice 12: Yeah, but there's a moral price to doing so, right?

[0:55:09] Voice 12: When you have a piece of land

[0:55:11] Voice 12: that you have a federal contract on that is lucrative.

[0:55:15] Voice 12: And I think that in the past,

[0:55:17] Voice 12: they have sort of been willing to,

[0:55:21] Voice 12: shall we say, accommodate to a degree.

[0:55:23] Voice 12: and I think what we perhaps need to do now is think we know we can't make them go away that

[0:55:29] Voice 12: we need but what can we do using in a sense moral persuasion to further mitigate the activities

[0:55:37] Voice 12: you mentioned the fence that was said to be built well we could maybe put some customers in place

[0:55:44] Voice 12: for whatever reason we didn't put screening requirements the TUP did we at the beginning

[0:55:49] Voice 12: which unfortunately well

[0:55:51] Voice 9: the building wasn't uh it was still an auxiliary building since then uh

[0:55:56] Voice 9: granted the occupancy permit so the the use changed so that's probably why and we didn't

[0:56:03] Voice 9: care about uh necessarily the the the structure the

[0:56:09] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: you

[0:56:10] Voice 9: know offense per se because they were

[0:56:13] Voice 9: just saying that we're just going to come and go and monitor our equipment and that's going to be

[0:56:16] Voice 10: it

[0:56:16] Voice 9: okay well you know fair

[0:56:19] Voice 9: enough and never have we heard another peep out of us we've sat here and

[0:56:23] Voice 9: been pretty you know fine

[0:56:26] Voice 9: and you know we're not seeing we try to be helpful um but what about the

[0:56:33] Voice 9: taxes i really didn't want to go that

[0:56:35] Voice 12: so that one on the delf islands there is no so we're in a

[0:56:38] Voice 12: rural tax zone so taxation is set by the province the islands trust doesn't um collect taxes nor

[0:56:46] Voice 12: doesn't issue business licenses so there really is no uh like i run my company from my law right

[0:56:53] Voice 12: and i don't there's no tax implications of me doing so that would be the case there's no there's

[0:56:59] Voice 12: no business taxation on uh on the documents now there might be in um the salt spring

[0:57:08] Voice 12: there's some the provinces taxes in some areas so it's probably something to consider to look at

[0:57:15] Voice 12: further because I know the province the Amstrad has no jurisdiction nor does the CRE in issuing

[0:57:23] Voice 12: business licenses and the provinces the taxation authority under the rural on the rural tax code

[0:57:29] Voice 12: but um we haven't accounted in the last row actually we might have to speak to this but

[0:57:34] Voice 12: rather than put you in a difficult position I'd say let's let's research that and find out what

[0:57:40] Voice 12: this what the story is in terms of growth tax growth and productivity because i i don't know

[0:57:45] Voice 12: i don't know a definitive answer to your question

[0:57:48] Voice 12: yeah

[0:57:54] Voice 8: who

[0:57:55] Voice 9: might give us the definition of what's happening next door for real estate purposes

[0:58:08] Voice 8: So, I actually have an email which is from the Director of the Wales Protection Policy Transport Canada, which came to trustees and it was last October and it was presenting JASCO results.

[0:58:22] Voice 8: I didn't go to the webinar, but all the information is there up to that point.

[0:58:27] Voice 8: So I'm just wondering, first of all, they would know that they had two three-year TPs.

[0:58:36] Voice 8: I'm wondering, first of all, we should find out, is this contract going to continue at

[0:58:40] Voice 8: all?

[0:58:41] Voice 8: It's possible that the contract is going to be done and they would have to remove the

[0:58:48] Voice 8: equipment.

[0:58:53] Voice 8: I'm very disappointed that they didn't actually do what they said they would do when you were

[0:58:58] Voice 8: in mediation.

[0:58:59] Voice 8: I didn't understand that when you talked about the fencing etc.

[0:59:03] Voice 8: I went and looked at the TUP and I asked them, where is it documented that they would do

[0:59:09] Voice 8: this?

[0:59:09] Voice 8: And I didn't know that it was a separate process, etc, etc.

[0:59:13] Voice 8: Now we've abandoned it.

[0:59:14] Voice 8: Yeah. So that was a bit unfortunate because I did look into like how could, you know, where's it written down that they would do that.

[0:59:21] Voice 9: And

[0:59:21] Voice 8: then the second thing is, you know, if there's a septic issue, then there should be a complaint faced with CRD and mental health.

[0:59:31] Voice 8: So that's another thing, although you can kick it off with the RNs Trust and they'll forward it.

[0:59:37] Voice 8: um so i suggested the first thing you do is find out if it was a prospect of that contact

[0:59:43] Voice 8: continuing and

[0:59:44] Voice 12: i can do that because i did the back and forth with them at the very beginning

[0:59:49] Voice 12: of this process this is david and i think you mentioned that i assumed he would still be the

[0:59:55] Voice 12: So I can follow them, I will basically just pick one up and tell them.

[1:00:00] Voice 12: additional concerns that are raised by your change of use of oil and we would like to kind of

[1:00:07] Voice 12: ameliorate or shall we say in time for if you're going for a next temporary use from it

[1:00:14] Voice 12: and if he isn't and or the contract ends i do think it's it's within his power to kind of

[1:00:22] Voice 12: ensure this kind of moderation of the activity there or at least you know he doesn't have to

[1:00:29] Voice 12: didn't right we that's we we've heard that loud and clear but in the past he has basically made

[1:00:36] Voice 12: things he's not taken the lowest road in the I'm not saying I know you guys have had a lot

[1:00:44] Voice 12: of frustration back and forth with him I'm not trying to make that all right I'm just saying

[1:00:48] Voice 12: that in the past when I worked with him he did engage in activity that by rights didn't have to

[1:00:54] Voice 12: Um, so can he, will he do that again? Possibly. Will he not? He may not, right? But I think it's, I'm willing to do that a step on and find out when, what he has to say, when the contract expires.

[1:01:07] Voice 12: But my other concern in the TAP, which I don't think we sufficiently addressed, is does decommissioning of that equipment involve a return of the drill rig and the barge and all that kind of destruction?

[1:01:20] Voice 12: Exactly. And that's, and we need to

[1:01:22] Voice 9: have a management of that.

[1:01:23] Voice 9: you go right into the into the fourth one actually there's two huge tables they grow

[1:01:30] Voice 9: right into it it's open i imagine if there's a big enough storm there'd be a giant warmer spot

[1:01:35] Voice 9: yeah

[1:01:36] Voice 12: they thought that that was part of the filling that we'd grow which they then do which

[1:01:42] Voice 12: is i don't quite get that myself but

[1:01:43] Voice 9: that's a great idea for sandstone yeah

[1:01:48] Voice 12: it's so it's

[1:01:49] Voice 12: there's questions right and so if we do that um it does you know it's it's it's very like

[1:01:58] Voice 12: well it's not on the picture but it's it's a background shall we say

[1:02:01] Voice 12: it's not really anything to do with this but tup or the tup uh it's an information finding

[1:02:08] Voice 12: an expectation of the fact that the activity is actually having an

[1:02:12] Voice 12: increased impact on the neighbors then he would not always be aware of this

[1:02:17] Voice 12: And there's a group of staff I'm going to tell them, oh, yeah, we're really annoying to make.

[1:02:21] Voice 12: So I think if we can basically get that over to them, engage the dialogue, where do we go from there?

[1:02:28] Voice 12: I'm basically saying it's asking your indulgence, I suppose, in terms of what the next step might be, because we need to know, does the contract extend and therefore what is their intent?

[1:02:40] Voice 12: And are they therefore seeking to apply for, as Brad pointed out, this would be a brand new to you, Pete.

[1:02:47] Voice 12: for the circumstances of which uh a lot of you know what the circumstances the

[1:02:53] Voice 12: the use of the law generates right now with the employee union um

[1:02:58] Voice 3: so i read the renewal permit there is uh in the original permit the requirement to submit

[1:03:06] Voice 3: an operational plan and decommissioning plan which they have done so there is okay so the

[1:03:12] Voice 3: conditioning plant that's going to submit it as part of the first two because

[1:03:17] Voice 3: and it doesn't look like it would be drilling

[1:03:20] Voice 8: what's the interaction

[1:03:24] Voice 8: okay thank you

[1:03:26] Voice 8: what's the interaction between the tup and the occupancy permit uh in terms of uh

[1:03:37] Voice 8: like

[1:03:38] Voice 3: what do you mean what's well

[1:03:40] Voice 8: but i think is is there any do they overlap do they contradict

[1:03:43] Voice 8: each other do they like what's happening so what i'm asking i suppose is the occupancy

[1:03:51] Voice 8: and by that person is is that okay or not or how do those because they're gently yeah

[1:04:02] Voice 3: so i think

[1:04:02] Voice 3: you need so for one that person can live there because there's now an occupancy permit well

[1:04:07] Voice 3: when the permit was issued it was just a accessory building essentially and so with that person

[1:04:15] Voice 3: living there

[1:04:16] Voice 11: so

[1:04:18] Voice 3: the original management plan speaks a little bit to what they're doing on

[1:04:23] Voice 3: property but that doesn't limit that person from through their own free use using the property for

[1:04:29] Voice 3: however they see fit in terms of if they're just real watching,

[1:04:33] Voice 3: if that's actual work versus their own personal time,

[1:04:37] Voice 3: I mean, that's pretty hard to separate.

[1:04:39] Voice 3: And so if they had an employee living there,

[1:04:45] Voice 3: it's my view that they would meet the home occupation regulations

[1:04:49] Voice 3: and they could actually operate their business legally

[1:04:57] Voice 3: legally, as a home occupation, with the requirement of one employee, so that would then take away

[1:05:07] Voice 3: the need for temporary use for the orgies alike, and they would just be acting lawfully

[1:05:14] Voice 3: under their existing regulation, in particular as it legalized the use in the water ones.

[1:05:22] Voice 13: So I'd like to wrap this up, because we're over 45 minutes into a three-minute time limit,

[1:05:27] Voice 13: And so, Priscilla, if you just want to.

[1:05:29] Voice 10: Yeah, I

[1:05:30] Voice 13: know

[1:05:31] Voice 10: bad intent is always really hard to regulate.

[1:05:41] Voice 10: I was at that initial meeting with Jason, whatever, and I don't want to impress.

[1:05:49] Voice 10: I thought we were being handled, and that's always a pretty difficult thing to do, even from the very beginning.

[1:05:57] Voice 10: And I hope that the temporary use permits are restricted and are controlling the capacity to develop and do what we would like to do.

[1:06:09] Voice 10: And I did hear earlier about the fact that it's a federal group, so they can do pretty well with whatever they like.

[1:06:17] Voice 10: So that's the word I was talking about.

[1:06:20] Voice 10: So he was asking me to do certain things which never got done.

[1:06:26] Voice 10: and I'm not in the neighborhood, but I'm honest to turn.

[1:06:31] Voice 10: And that might be something that you would like

[1:06:34] Voice 10: to report to him and then kind of dealt with now

[1:06:36] Voice 10: so that we got the most out.

[1:06:38] Voice 10: And I would hate to give them any more legal cover

[1:06:41] Voice 10: or ability to say that they actually have this capacity.

[1:06:47] Voice 10: I haven't found them to be good leaders.

[1:06:51] Voice 10: And I would also like to say that while the memorial

[1:06:58] Voice 10: discussion

[1:07:00] Voice 10: has no

[1:07:01] Voice 10: bearing on the fact that

[1:07:02] Voice 10: JK and Elkhart are starting

[1:07:05] Voice 10: and we are doing

[1:07:06] Voice 10: cover research for what

[1:07:09] Voice 10: the feds really want to do

[1:07:12] Voice 10: is

[1:07:14] Voice 10: kind of hard right there

[1:07:15] Voice 10: so this is to no avail

[1:07:17] Voice 10: and we know it's to no avail

[1:07:19] Voice 10: and we also know that the money

[1:07:21] Voice 10: being given to this company

[1:07:24] Voice 10: it just puts another

[1:07:26] Voice 10: a bad taste

[1:07:28] Voice 10: in your mouth for if it was if it was imperative it was helping it was helping sanctuary souls

[1:07:34] Voice 10: or helping your whales i would be much more inclined uh but i'm not and i'm just another

[1:07:41] Voice 10: saturn highlanders but i would like to mention that for us i think we're being used i'm sorry

[1:07:48] Voice 10: about that and i'm looking none of this on the trust at all or our or the responses that we've

[1:07:55] Voice 10: passed from either the past and current trustees and also from the planners yes

[1:08:00] Voice 13: so i would suggest

[1:08:01] Voice 13: just to conclude i would suggest your next place to reach is listen to me as office thank you

[1:08:06] Voice 13: so we have the most patient person that has had that graph an hour or so

[1:08:13] Voice 2: well i think this has felt like for a lot of years i understand the emotion of the trouble

[1:08:20] Voice 2: the fact of the matter is today we're around and the past what do we do about the future

[1:08:28] Voice 2: to me it seems that we're helpless but we're not i believe jessica has got a very good lawyer

[1:08:37] Voice 2: who's advising him very carefully on what he's doing i hear the official community plan

[1:08:44] Voice 5: that

[1:08:44] Voice 2: was put in place, he wasn't allowed to do that.

[1:08:48] Voice 2: That would be a violation of the integration.

[1:08:52] Voice 2: And I say that that was the intent,

[1:08:56] Voice 2: but if you went into a lawyer,

[1:08:58] Voice 2: if you make an opinion about that today,

[1:09:03] Voice 2: would that advance health community,

[1:09:06] Voice 2: the owner's concerns?

[1:09:10] Voice 2: What does power work impact?

[1:09:12] Voice 2: I don't know.

[1:09:13] Voice 12: I think to your point, and this is what I'm suggesting in the next half,

[1:09:17] Voice 12: legally what power do we have may be a right zero.

[1:09:20] Voice 12: However, he has the principle in open to modifying his approach and behavior.

[1:09:27] Voice 12: And I think to try to be responsive to your concerns,

[1:09:33] Voice 12: at the bare minimum, we can go and speak and start to address this.

[1:09:39] Voice 12: Legally, is he probably going to do anything?

[1:09:41] Voice 12: I guess he isn't but that's not you

[1:09:44] Voice 12: know I don't get the sense you must actively be a bad name

[1:09:48] Voice 12: and so if there are things that we could do um you know you guys have had longer experience and

[1:09:53] Voice 12: I know you guys probably have a more troubled kind of mental picture of it when it's intent but

[1:09:59] Voice 12: if I go to him on behalf of the local trust committee just as a back channel raise these

[1:10:05] Voice 12: issues talk about what the immediate future might look like see what might be able to happen right

[1:10:10] Voice 12: right away, that would be step one.

[1:10:14] Voice 12: Because yeah, I'm not willing to just give up

[1:10:16] Voice 12: and say, oh, you can't do anything about this.

[1:10:19] Voice 12: We have done something about it.

[1:10:20] Voice 12: Maybe it's not been as effective

[1:10:22] Voice 12: as ideally it could have been,

[1:10:25] Voice 12: but that means our next local trust committee meeting,

[1:10:29] Voice 12: if we were to try to follow up this in a more formal way,

[1:10:32] Voice 12: would be, it's not going to happen until September, is it?

[1:10:35] Voice 12: Or October.

[1:10:37] Voice 12: So it doesn't have to wait for the public hearing.

[1:10:40] Voice 12: all this can happen you know we can come conversation and then something can be you

[1:10:44] Voice 12: know report back does anything formally we need to do we can do that sometimes outside of a meeting

[1:10:51] Voice 12: with a resolution without meeting but i'm i'm thinking that mr hanae may and i'll come back

[1:10:57] Voice 12: to you guys then so what i'll do i'll commit to i'll get in touch with them and i'll get back to

[1:11:00] Voice 12: you guys and then we'll see are we able to kind of get traction here on something different right

[1:11:10] Voice 2: The trust is going to do the best it can.

[1:11:14] Voice 2: And I agree with you.

[1:11:16] Voice 2: The way of doing it is that there's a tough time.

[1:11:19] Voice 2: We know.

[1:11:20] Voice 2: One of the things that would make it very easy for our trustees would be that if there was a fence that helped that,

[1:11:31] Voice 2: that would be your moral persuasion to get going on.

[1:11:34] Voice 2: Whether or not it gets renewed or not, really, he may or may not know anything, and that doesn't affect today.

[1:11:44] Voice 2: They need some help today, so that's the way to do it.

[1:11:48] Voice 2: Now, if you want to take the kind road and the soft road, don't be dealing with the assessment authority.

[1:11:57] Voice 2: I believe, as an individual, I can deal with the assessment authority by simply phoning them up,

[1:12:03] Voice 2: raising the points about a commercial operation next door

[1:12:07] Voice 2: and asking for the assessment authorities to look into it.

[1:12:12] Voice 2: That takes it out of your belt,

[1:12:14] Voice 2: but let's go

[1:12:15] Voice 9: over on the other side

[1:12:16] Voice 2: of the fence.

[1:12:18] Voice 2: There's no fence.

[1:12:22] Voice 10: On the other side

[1:12:24] Voice 9: of the fence.

[1:12:27] Voice 10: Yeah, sorry.

[1:12:30] Voice 9: We've taken it off.

[1:12:32] Voice 9: That's

[1:12:33] Voice 8: what it's for, that's what it's for, and that's true, that's why we're here.

[1:12:37] Voice 3: Mr. Howell.

[1:12:38] Voice 3: Does the renewal of all the issues of the new TUP require public hearing?

[1:12:45] Voice 13: It's about the process of their meetings, yes.

[1:12:48] Voice 3: It's not about the hearing alone.

[1:12:50] Voice 3: So what's the mechanism for alerting the community that

[1:12:57] Voice 11: there is a new application,

[1:12:59] Voice 11: application, I mean a new T&P application in front of LCC.

[1:13:04] Voice 8: It'll come up in the agenda, but we can alert people.

[1:13:07] Voice 3: All properties within 200 metres of the down payment parcel

[1:13:11] Voice 3: get noticed, and there's also such sort of

[1:13:15] Voice 3: questions too.

[1:13:19] Voice 3: Even

[1:13:19] Voice 8: if we have no power as such, they're

[1:13:23] Voice 8: a public company who look for contracts and work, and they have a

[1:13:27] Voice 8: reputation to maintain so you know there is a possibility of you know they do have to

[1:13:35] Voice 8: try and be good neighbors and i'm really disappointed about the mediation and defense

[1:13:41] Voice 8: issue that might

[1:13:42] Voice 10: be doing that okay and if we are familiar with this department yeah

[1:13:46] Voice 12: yeah okay so the google will be in touch if you're right thank you for

[1:13:54] Voice 9: pulling that up

[1:13:55] Voice 9: an amazing one and

[1:13:57] Voice 12: thanks for coming in personally speaking to your your experience

[1:14:02] Voice 6: so

[1:14:02] Voice 12: anybody else anything else from town hall or um you know one thing i might suggest just

[1:14:08] Voice 12: mrs lolling is now here and we've got you know an audience we'll have to give you a little bit

[1:14:14] Voice 12: that you can speak to is um we'll get to the correspondence was too late to get on the agenda

[1:14:20] Voice 12: so it's not officially on the agenda but we added as new business but you're here now

[1:14:24] Voice 12: but there's nothing you can do for business versus uh it's a long segment

[1:14:28] Voice 12: so um yeah so do you do you want to summarize what you said you want to be just i don't know

[1:14:49] Voice 12: know the process i've just um i don't know the process so if you summarize i can speak in a

[1:14:56] Voice 12: general sense to this but what what you've done is basically floated an idea to us yes in

[1:15:02] Voice 12: anticipation of some commentary at an early stage so that you can kind of get a feel for what

[1:15:09] Voice 12: global trust committee might be thinking or how it might respond before you go down the path of

[1:15:14] Voice 12: you know very detailed applications and all that exactly correct me if i'm wrong on that

[1:15:20] Voice 12: but that's my understanding of what we would be doing here is just having a kind of a general

[1:15:25] Voice 12: trial balloon shall we say yes so to do that did you care for me

[1:15:42] Voice 3: Okay, maybe the work you've done today to arrive. Okay. Yeah, these are the humble beginnings.

[1:15:50] Voice 3: The gist of it is, I would like to save a good portion of the 30 acres that we already

[1:15:57] Voice 3: East Point. There's the wetlands that are of interest. There's two wetlands. There's

[1:16:03] Voice 3: a forest of wetlands and there's the wetlands that everyone's interested in. And also what

[1:16:10] Voice 3: happens is that cuts off one end of it by saving that wetland. So I would like to subdivide

[1:16:15] Voice 3: two lots off one end and two lots off the other end. So roughly two acre parcels on

[1:16:26] Voice 3: the other end and keep about 25 acres in the middle as a large parcel from the south and

[1:16:33] Voice 3: the process would be i've looked into talked to many people on taking this

[1:16:40] Voice 3: natural with the trust left over in the conservancy crds all these people

[1:16:45] Voice 3: some have issues some don't want to some don't have time for it the thing that actually will

[1:16:51] Voice 3: will work as a NAPTEP. And I haven't, why I have to come here first is the NAPTEP, Karen,

[1:17:01] Voice 3: she won't come here until she gets some sort of indication that this is doable. So it's

[1:17:09] Voice 3: kind of like she said, well, who comes first? Do I ask for a NAPTEP or do I ask you? She

[1:17:13] Voice 3: said, well, there is no hard fast way. So I don't know the exact outlines. I've given

[1:17:19] Voice 3: given an estimate of where, based on the biologist's recommendation of what should be saved, conserved

[1:17:26] Voice 3: action. So, there's no final lines yet. So, before she comes here and says, this is where

[1:17:34] Voice 3: I really want the lines, she needs something from Islands Trust saying that, yeah, this

[1:17:40] Voice 3: is a good idea, maybe we should go with it, sort of thing. But nothing stamped or written,

[1:17:45] Voice 3: and this is what we want.

[1:17:49] Voice 8: Can I just ask that for the purposes of people

[1:17:51] Voice 8: who may not know what an app is,

[1:17:53] Voice 8: can you just cover what an app is,

[1:17:55] Voice 8: where the property is,

[1:17:58] Voice 8: and just a few background details like that?

[1:18:02] Voice 8: Okay, well, it

[1:18:03] Voice 3: is almost half of the East Point.

[1:18:07] Voice 3: It's a portion of the Midsore Mound,

[1:18:11] Voice 3: a larger portion is the Lord's East Point,

[1:18:13] Voice 3: and John and myself, we own 32 acres on basically from Fiddler's Cove to right about Fiddler's

[1:18:23] Voice 3: Road to where the fire hall would be and it's now on the other side and there's a large

[1:18:30] Voice 3: fortune there that's just, I've been cleaning it up.

[1:18:34] Voice 3: It was left in quite a mess when I got it and I've spent years cleaning it up, mitigating

[1:18:39] Voice 3: the fire hazard and just looking after the place. So the wetlands has always been an

[1:18:46] Voice 3: interest to the community. It has to be saved. If I step off the planet and the thing gets sold,

[1:18:53] Voice 3: the timber value in there is way more than the property itself now. It's the best cedar on the

[1:18:59] Voice 3: island. And I can selectively take out the dying ones and the bad ones, which is what I've been

[1:19:06] Voice 3: doing but it's not in me to cut down beautiful trees. I know how to clean them up and that's

[1:19:12] Voice 3: what I'm doing right now. And also there are the densities that Lee was referring to that could

[1:19:20] Voice 3: come there so we may be able to speak to that.

[1:19:24] Voice 12: So it's kind of a package thing. Yeah I can speak to

[1:19:28] Voice 12: it because we've kind of gone back and forth and well just and class must be involved too in terms

[1:19:34] Voice 12: of that there was originally a sort of a community group of people that had approached you looking to

[1:19:40] Voice 12: find a way to save not like say it's like that's

[1:19:44] Voice 3: what you're concerned about yeah it's not going

[1:19:46] Voice 3: to be

[1:19:46] Voice 12: like when we say save the website yeah that monster be extolling no i think that's the right

[1:19:53] Voice 12: and so so basically it's it's it was a way they were looking for a way where you could seek back

[1:20:01] Voice 12: you know we see the one after donation received benefit for you basically putting a line around

[1:20:05] Voice 12: that wetland and making it a construct area and various ideas we tried um but one of the

[1:20:12] Voice 12: ideas that did come out is a backlog and it's a covenant on it as the previous one that removed

[1:20:17] Voice 12: all of the densities are in the bottom to use elsewhere right um and so in you know where to

[1:20:24] Voice 12: do that was a covenant lifestyle so that restricts the number of densities on that otherwise

[1:20:29] Voice 12: large piece of land that would normally have more densities to just the one density so with some of

[1:20:36] Voice 12: the work we've been doing as a local trust committee we have uh reinvigorated i guess

[1:20:43] Voice 12: you would call it the community amenity density reserve which was a mechanism put in the

[1:20:49] Voice 12: from the community plan to hold densities and use them for community amenity.

[1:21:01] Voice 12: I'm not specifically for conservation purposes, we will talk in the future about whether that

[1:21:07] Voice 12: would include accessible housing or not, but that's a separate conversation, we're not

[1:21:11] Voice 12: talking about that now.

[1:21:14] Voice 12: and so that's what Peter was basically what you were thinking is okay if I can

[1:21:19] Voice 12: if I preserve the wetlands by whatever mechanism and the NAPTAP is the latest idea

[1:21:28] Voice 12: I think we would collectively view that as a community benefit benefit community

[1:21:33] Voice 12: so you would get some of those densities you know obviously it may be a negotiated maybe not

[1:21:40] Voice 12: i know you're basically asking for the three in that proposal and then you have a fourth yourself

[1:21:45] Voice 12: and so the lot lines would permit uh these four additional locks basically you know

[1:21:52] Voice 12: i mean just this is where we get into brad's expertise here because i'm working with some

[1:21:58] Voice 12: of the original proposals so that's basically the idea on the table is that

[1:22:02] Voice 4: you

[1:22:03] Voice 12: would use the

[1:22:04] Voice 12: that type mechanism to preserve that wetland and one other in your property um and because

[1:22:12] Voice 12: community they have the idea being i don't want to put words in the case but the idea being

[1:22:17] Voice 12: the community would see sufficient benefit in those wetlands being preserved

[1:22:22] Voice 12: that they would allow they because that's going to be by law the densities come in and come out of

[1:22:28] Voice 12: that they definitely deserve they would you know support basically your receiving densities in

[1:22:34] Voice 12: return for the conservation of what that's that

[1:22:37] Voice 4: that's basically interesting and the

[1:22:39] Voice 4: logs would be minimum two acres they could be two and a half right so they would be minimum

[1:22:45] Voice 4: and so

[1:22:47] Voice 12: yeah and so so that's i guess that's the idea that is where are we as a local trust

[1:22:55] Voice 12: committee where does the community sit in terms of having the wetlands preserved under

[1:23:02] Voice 12: that so the natural areas protection tax exemption programs was that's what it basically means

[1:23:09] Voice 12: they're conserved in perpetuity i mean the tax exemption is on undeveloped land is somewhat

[1:23:16] Voice 12: minor anyway that's not really where but you're not you're not taxed on that portion and you

[1:23:21] Voice 12: commit to a conservation covenant that survives you it stays on the title of the property

[1:23:28] Voice 12: basically and so I think it's a pretty solid conservation mechanism probably speak more

[1:23:36] Voice 12: you know with more experience to it than than us but I think it is a pretty solid way of

[1:23:42] Voice 12: I think that's my side of the

[1:23:49] Voice 3: intervention.

[1:23:51] Voice 3: I'm sure the NAPTA program is the National Area Protection Tax Exemption Program,

[1:23:56] Voice 15: which is a joint program between Islands Trust and the Islands Trust Conservancy

[1:24:00] Voice 15: that provides financial

[1:24:02] Voice 3: incentive to choose land protection over development.

[1:24:05] Voice 3: When you register a conservation covenant through NAPTA,

[1:24:08] Voice 3: that you receive an annual property tax exemption of 65% on the protected portion.

[1:24:14] Voice 3: And in exchange, you would agree to a Section 219 covenant

[1:24:19] Voice 3: that has conditions around protecting and preserving that

[1:24:23] Voice 3: wherever that covenant is established on the lease.

[1:24:29] Voice 13: So basically, what we're at today is you're saying this is what you'd like to do.

[1:24:34] Voice 13: Yes.

[1:24:35] Voice 13: And you want to know if we kind of say this is a bad idea.

[1:24:40] Voice 13: You're not looking for endorsement, but you're looking for feedback to say, this isn't going to fly.

[1:24:46] Voice 13: Right, because I can

[1:24:47] Voice 3: tell them who's in charge of the NAPCAP.

[1:24:50] Voice 3: She says, well, you know, let's get something started first.

[1:24:56] Voice 3: So she would rather start from this end than her end, because she doesn't want to come here, do the NAP.

[1:25:02] Voice 3: So yeah, great, great, great.

[1:25:04] Voice 3: We'll set all this aside and then have the trust nod to that idea.

[1:25:07] Voice 3: episode that's kind of

[1:25:09] Voice 3: so to add to

[1:25:11] Voice 3: what the ITC is seeking

[1:25:13] Voice 3: I've been working consistently

[1:25:14] Voice 3: with Catherine on

[1:25:16] Voice 3: Mr. Stolting's application

[1:25:18] Voice 3: or his proposal

[1:25:19] Voice 3: what she needs to understand

[1:25:22] Voice 3: what the ITC needs to understand

[1:25:23] Voice 3: before they invest a whole month of time

[1:25:25] Voice 3: in

[1:25:26] Voice 3: doing all the

[1:25:29] Voice 3: process around entering that

[1:25:32] Voice 3: covenant is that Mr. Stolting

[1:25:33] Voice 3: wants to carry on with the NAPTEP

[1:25:35] Voice 3: program regardless of whether he gets a decision around rezoning or not. And so a rezoning process

[1:25:43] Voice 3: will probably take a year and a half at least to work through. And I think it would be a rezoning

[1:25:51] Voice 3: application in particular as he, so right now his parcel is zoned technically for the number

[1:25:58] Voice 3: of parcels that he wants, but it has a section 219 covenant sticking it to one density. And so

[1:26:04] Voice 3: So you could technically just amend that covenant to allow the additional densities,

[1:26:10] Voice 3: but you would need to rezone this current parcel to remove that density to transfer it.

[1:26:15] Voice 3: And so that's where rezoning would have to occur.

[1:26:17] Voice 3: So if you're talking about rezoning, then you're 12 to 18 months minimum.

[1:26:23] Voice 3: And I'm assuming that there will be quite a bit of community interest in this application

[1:26:29] Voice 3: and a range of opinion for you to work through.

[1:26:32] Voice 3: so there's probably no guarantee that reasonable would occur

[1:26:35] Voice 15: we would also see

[1:26:36] Voice 3: proof of water

[1:26:36] Voice 3: proof of septic uh for those proposed new laws and treat that part i think the reason

[1:26:43] Voice 3: proposal if that's what he's trying to do

[1:26:47] Voice 3: and so uh uh i think what happened is trying to understand is are you wanting to move forward

[1:26:57] Voice 3: that regardless of whether the density is transferred or not or is it a trade that you're

[1:27:04] Voice 3: really seeking to do i did mention here that i wanted to move on regardless because it takes

[1:27:10] Voice 3: two years yes he was saying so my thought was well let's get that enrolling let's get this

[1:27:16] Voice 3: enrollment enrolling and maybe in two years but if it's a definite no don't go down

[1:27:22] Voice 3: Now I'm going to go in, and it's going to stay the way it is.

[1:27:24] Voice 3: Right.

[1:27:25] Voice 3: So that's my...

[1:27:28] Voice 15: But if this doesn't happen, what I'm hearing is that you want to go down the route anyway,

[1:27:32] Voice 15: so why don't you just go do that, and

[1:27:35] Voice 3: have this conversation?

[1:27:37] Voice 3: That's what I'm trying to understand.

[1:27:38] Voice 3: Not just the talk.

[1:27:39] Voice 3: Versus the trade, versus you're going to do this, and you're hoping to do that.

[1:27:44] Voice 3: Exactly, yeah.

[1:27:45] Voice 3: So you need to decide.

[1:27:46] Voice 3: I'm hoping, yes, but it's a definite no to pay or just this isn't, you know, then it's

[1:27:53] Voice 3: allowed to be not.

[1:27:55] Voice 3: There should

[1:27:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: be a lot of that sort of thing.

[1:27:56] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So that's

[1:27:57] Voice 6: kind of hard.

[1:27:57] Voice 3: So you need to, I think, come to, like, ITC doesn't want to go two years down the road

[1:28:06] Voice 3: and have this play out as a no, and then you just say no to them.

[1:28:09] Voice 4: Yeah.

[1:28:10] Voice 3: So that's the risk there.

[1:28:12] Voice 3: Just go.

[1:28:14] Voice 3: Yeah.

[1:28:14] Voice 3: Can

[1:28:15] Voice 8: you explain to me again, I missed it or I didn't understand, why is it not as simple as removing the comment?

[1:28:24] Voice 8: And then it goes back to how it was sound.

[1:28:26] Voice 8: I'm not proposing we definitely do that.

[1:28:29] Voice 8: I'm just saying why is it not that simple?

[1:28:32] Voice 3: Because he wants to take another density from another property and to reduce the

[1:28:39] Voice 3: density on that property,

[1:28:41] Voice 3: you would need to change your zoning.

[1:28:43] Voice 3: You can do it by covenant.

[1:28:45] Voice 3: I know staff would recommend that.

[1:28:46] Voice 3: And

[1:28:46] Voice 15: you're in a sense, if you just do it all by covenant,

[1:28:49] Voice 15: when it's a pretty significant change in land use,

[1:28:56] Voice 3: you might start to stumble on,

[1:28:59] Voice 3: is this the appropriate public policy approach

[1:29:02] Voice 3: instead of going through rezoning

[1:29:04] Voice 3: and having a proper public hearing

[1:29:06] Voice 3: and

[1:29:06] Voice 8: all those other steps.

[1:29:08] Voice 3: If

[1:29:08] Voice 8: it was only the densities in the amenity bank, then would it be simpler, like you just

[1:29:16] Voice 8: remove the column and transfer those densities?

[1:29:21] Voice 2: Well, I have to say that I have a lot of expectations with the idea of removing density from the

[1:29:30] Voice 2: community density bank to create an apartment or a wet bank.

[1:29:35] Voice 2: we have a ton of weight now. What we don't have is affordable housing and density. How much density

[1:29:45] Voice 2: do we actually have in the tatter? Just before

[1:29:48] Voice 3: we get through the chair, the tatter can only be used

[1:29:50] Voice 3: for conservation purposes. So the language of the OCP is very strict that you can only put

[1:30:00] Voice 3: is in the OCP Bank for a direct transaction to Concern One.

[1:30:04] Voice 3: So you would have to change the OCP.

[1:30:08] Voice 3: And at the last meeting trustee,

[1:30:11] Voice 3: I just upgraded them or downgraded them,

[1:30:13] Voice 3: sure trustee Middleton spoke to potentially getting

[1:30:17] Voice 3: the 20 something properties of Mr. Paul's land.

[1:30:24] Voice 3: And then perhaps looking to change the OCP,

[1:30:27] Voice 3: be, you know, through an OCP

[1:30:29] Voice 3: amendment process to allow

[1:30:31] Voice 3: robberies to the counter. But I think we're still taking that's

[1:30:35] Voice 3: a long ways away from Yeah. Yeah, but no, it's a long time.

[1:30:49] Voice 10: That's here. And everybody in the audience this has been

[1:30:52] Voice 10: under contention for a long time. This money was originally

[1:30:56] Voice 10: originally under given money it was going to be the parkland and as a few people who held property

[1:31:05] Voice 10: there remember so i think for people to visualize what this is happening uh or what the proposal is

[1:31:13] Voice 10: would be good like with a little bit of mapping or something it's very difficult to uh i don't

[1:31:21] Voice 10: know exactly which and where the property is and it'll be really helpful

[1:31:26] Voice 8: it is available it's just

[1:31:27] Voice 8: that it came in very late so it's only in correspondence if we went forward definitely

[1:31:33] Voice 8: done a little environmental impact assessment of the area so all of that information will be

[1:31:40] Voice 8: available now

[1:31:40] Voice 10: my memory of that is that that is a remainder from development so i'm really

[1:31:47] Voice 10: interested in this and wetlands is a critical part but it's it's got a lot of moving parts

[1:31:53] Voice 10: and it has a lot of them in the community and i'm very happy to see if at least the wetlands

[1:32:05] Voice 10: is preserved i'm sure that would be with great approval how you get there with moving parts

[1:32:13] Voice 10: it's i think is pretty critical as to what things you think you're going to

[1:32:18] Voice 10: um change and what rezonings and how you're going to accomplish that it looks like hopscotch it's

[1:32:24] Voice 10: going to be difficult yeah

[1:32:28] Voice 4: i wonder if

[1:32:29] Voice 12: the way forward is to have a slightly more formal

[1:32:33] Voice 12: presentation to the community through from the next meeting because the point is

[1:32:42] Voice 12: there for the use of the counter and then we'll transfer the densities and then we'll move with

[1:32:46] Voice 12: the covenant we do rely on community support i mean we have to we have to get a sense of that

[1:32:52] Voice 12: right otherwise and you know this would be an unfair test today to say yes or no i think

[1:33:00] Voice 12: It's not European, it's not preliminary, but it's the time to take the advice of the

[1:33:06] Voice 12: planner into how to, it's obviously not a formal proposal, but it's kind of close to

[1:33:13] Voice 12: one in the sense to then get a meaningful response from both for the potential applicant

[1:33:20] Voice 12: Mr. Stolting, so he knows what's what, and then to maybe gauge some initial response

[1:33:25] Voice 12: from the community.

[1:33:27] Voice 12: What we've done a couple

[1:33:29] Voice 13: of times with proposals that basically we didn't know when they were

[1:33:33] Voice 13: going to land prior to application was we had the applicant sort of have their own community

[1:33:38] Voice 13: information meeting where the trustees were invited and all that, but basically the proponent

[1:33:43] Voice 13: was basically running the information session and that way sort of to judge and get community

[1:33:49] Voice 13: feedback which sort of informed the next step of the trustees.

[1:33:54] Voice 13: it's very

[1:33:55] Voice 10: important to have the planner here to see what's actually capable and possible so would

[1:34:00] Voice 13: that be a meeting like this with the general public yeah so but basically instead of us

[1:34:04] Voice 13: you would be hosting you know but inviting us so so it's it's basically it's just kind of removing

[1:34:10] Voice 13: the local trustee from the

[1:34:12] Voice 3: process so i mean you could just add it as a cia and pass it over to

[1:34:16] Voice 3: to Mr. Stolting to speak more in depth to his application with maps, and I think that

[1:34:23] Voice 3: would be the best approach. You could just pass it. I mean, but that's not until October.

[1:34:30] Voice 3: Should

[1:34:30] Voice 8: we do one in between? We could do one in between.

[1:34:34] Voice 8: That

[1:34:35] Voice 3: would be a specific one for this issue,

[1:34:37] Voice 13: or just one that's longer?

[1:34:39] Voice 13: If we did it in between, it would probably be specific.

[1:34:43] Voice 8: specific but you could also do the timing and you know something so you might get but what you

[1:34:52] Voice 13: probably would do if you did you probably would not have to right yeah

[1:34:56] Voice 4: the

[1:34:57] Voice 13: best everyone was here

[1:34:58] Voice 4: whoever in the community

[1:35:00] Voice 3: wanted to attend you know you

[1:35:01] Voice 8: do as part of your normal

[1:35:06] Voice 3: That was

[1:35:07] Voice 13: done a

[1:35:09] Voice 10: year and a

[1:35:09] Voice 13: half ago, so I think it's still coming.

[1:35:12] Voice 13: Do you know at this point on your radar how busy the October meeting might be or not?

[1:35:19] Voice 4: It's

[1:35:20] Voice 13: so far out.

[1:35:21] Voice 3: I think that we would be fine the hour of the same, and we have lots of time when I come over, because that's our long-term focus.

[1:35:28] Voice 3: session

[1:35:29] Voice 13: or we're actually pushing to them

[1:35:36] Voice 3: so uh i think uh if mr stolting is willing to wait and maybe that gives you a bit more time to

[1:35:43] Voice 3: put some thought into application right proposal right um you could pass your resolutions uh

[1:35:50] Voice 3: directing staff to schedule a CIM

[1:35:55] Voice 3: in respect of East Point wetland conservation.

[1:36:04] Voice 13: Proposed to prepare

[1:36:09] Voice 3: any materials you have.

[1:36:14] Voice 3: Right. I'm just curious to see what else that would be because I've not done a biologist report.

[1:36:17] Voice 3: four minutes but i need probably not probably that's enough yeah it would just be good to have

[1:36:23] Voice 3: it in the agenda package so the community can see it as opposed to that something to us and then

[1:36:29] Voice 3: like normally if we had received your uh proposal a little earlier it actually would have been

[1:36:35] Voice 3: included as correspondence and i said the package with that and then yeah there's some people right

[1:36:42] Voice 3: now all the people that have seen this remark and right with captain i thought we were going

[1:36:46] Voice 3: in a different direction and yeah and then i think with

[1:36:49] Voice 3: with catherine maybe you just want to pull

[1:36:52] Voice 3: whatever you're doing with them on hold for now yes and say we're going to do this in october

[1:36:57] Voice 3: better understanding from the elected officials and

[1:37:00] Voice 15: what i'm hearing

[1:37:01] Voice 3: is that it sounds more like

[1:37:02] Voice 3: a trade and i think if it is that's okay you just need to i think decide for yourself what

[1:37:07] Voice 15: it is you want to do and if it's truly a trade then you need to communicate that fairly and so

[1:37:13] Voice 15: so that the ITC can understand

[1:37:16] Voice 15: and

[1:37:17] Voice 3: maybe they need to wait some more time

[1:37:19] Voice 15: to see much

[1:37:19] Voice 3: further to get along with the proposal

[1:37:22] Voice 3: rather than, like, that's just my guidance.

[1:37:25] Voice 15: Okay, I just need to know what to prepare.

[1:37:27] Voice 3: Let

[1:37:28] Voice 15: me just make it clear.

[1:37:29] Voice 3: I think if you don't want an app

[1:37:32] Voice 3: which makes sense in some ways

[1:37:35] Voice 3: for a property owner to keep your options open

[1:37:37] Voice 3: if this rezoning doesn't occur,

[1:37:40] Voice 3: then that's okay, but you just need to be...

[1:37:44] Voice 3: Right. You just need to like not try to play that middle ground. Exactly. Yeah.

[1:37:49] Voice 3: But after this meeting, I would have a little better indication. I

[1:37:52] Voice 15: think you'd have

[1:37:52] Voice 3: a better idea probably from your trustees at least.

[1:37:59] Voice 3: But that doesn't mean that once you get down to the application process, that more concerns

[1:38:06] Voice 3: and learning doesn't come, that then makes it more difficult.

[1:38:12] Voice 3: Where I'm at now is if I wait a year and a half or two years for it to go through this

[1:38:17] Voice 3: process, then I wait another two years.

[1:38:20] Voice 15: Yeah, I wouldn't.

[1:38:21] Voice 15: No, I'm not saying that.

[1:38:22] Voice 3: i

[1:38:22] Voice 15: think it's still i think it's still good to try to stagger them but maybe just get a little

[1:38:27] Voice 15: if you truly wanted to like if you were willing to just do i'm going to do napta and if i get

[1:38:33] Voice 15: my rezoning awesome if not still

[1:38:35] Voice 3: okay i'm going to get my tuck then i would tell you to just

[1:38:39] Voice 3: proceed now i see yeah if it is actually bound to this decision which is okay then just make it

[1:38:48] Voice 3: that way right and pull up on that until you have some more clarity here and if you get some signals

[1:38:53] Voice 3: at least you can start to move it doesn't mean you can't pull out of that that natural sense

[1:38:58] Voice 3: but at least you'll have some more clear others the issue is that the trust can't proceed without

[1:39:07] Voice 3: being in that well they have to

[1:39:11] Voice 3: be preserved obviously well the honest trust could like the

[1:39:14] Voice 15: the trustees could could could see that instead then you go down the original

[1:39:18] Voice 15: like that

[1:39:20] Voice 3: they like they have they have total discretion to to say yes or no or we what what

[1:39:28] Voice 3: what do you think of this idea so that is where you get into the application process and then

[1:39:35] Voice 3: like you know some

[1:39:36] Voice 15: and it goes back and forth and the concerns of the neighborhood uh often drive

[1:39:44] Voice 15: how quickly it moves along, and if you have all the players aligned and everyone's happy,

[1:39:49] Voice 3: then it goes quite quickly.

[1:39:50] Voice 3: If you have a whole bunch of diverse opposing opinions,

[1:39:54] Voice 3: making it more difficult for your local officials,

[1:39:57] Voice 3: then, I mean, sometimes it's just something that's going on for 10, 15, 20 years, right?

[1:40:04] Voice 15: So there's no guarantee that you haven't been doing

[1:40:06] Voice 3: it for a long time.

[1:40:08] Voice 8: I think that the most important thing going through this meeting

[1:40:11] Voice 8: is to describe what the

[1:40:13] Voice 8: conditions are of the

[1:40:15] Voice 8: conservation because

[1:40:16] Voice 8: just to say there's an agreement

[1:40:19] Voice 8: an apt like agreement

[1:40:20] Voice 8: nobody will know what that means

[1:40:22] Voice 8: to

[1:40:23] Voice 3: describe what the net is

[1:40:24] Voice 8: what he was saying is there is a piece of land

[1:40:27] Voice 8: and I will either transfer it to

[1:40:29] Voice 8: another body like the COD

[1:40:31] Voice 8: and they get to conserve

[1:40:33] Voice 8: it entirely or it stays with

[1:40:35] Voice 8: me and I

[1:40:36] Voice 8: conserve it according to the agreement

[1:40:39] Voice 8: with the Alcatraz Conservatives.

[1:40:41] Voice 11: Right, I've driven down that road.

[1:40:42] Voice 11: Yeah,

[1:40:42] Voice 8: but nobody knows, like, what does that mean?

[1:40:45] Voice 8: I will name a question out of the blue.

[1:40:46] Voice 8: I'm going to describe it.

[1:40:47] Voice 8: I

[1:40:47] Voice 11: will bring the

[1:40:48] Voice 8: palm down to everyone here.

[1:40:50] Voice 8: I'll put tent poles in it.

[1:40:52] Voice 8: Like, what are the conditions that you have to meet

[1:40:55] Voice 8: and how it would be monitored?

[1:40:57] Voice 8: Because I think those are the things that people

[1:40:59] Voice 8: will really want to know.

[1:41:01] Voice 8: You know, not just like, oh, this would be covered by NAPTEC.

[1:41:04] Voice 8: What does that mean?

[1:41:06] Voice 8: and how does

[1:41:08] Voice 8: how is it

[1:41:09] Voice 8: how will you be

[1:41:10] Voice 8: how will you comply

[1:41:11] Voice 8: who will know

[1:41:12] Voice 8: when you're complying

[1:41:13] Voice 8: I'm not

[1:41:14] Voice 8: I'm not challenging you

[1:41:15] Voice 8: I'm just saying

[1:41:16] Voice 8: no I'm not

[1:41:17] Voice 8: no no

[1:41:17] Voice 13: if

[1:41:18] Voice 8: you don't flesh that out

[1:41:19] Voice 8: people

[1:41:19] Voice 8: will still go like

[1:41:21] Voice 8: I don't know

[1:41:22] Voice 8: what we're getting

[1:41:23] Voice 8: you know

[1:41:23] Voice 8: we

[1:41:24] Voice 13: might be able to

[1:41:24] Voice 13: invite a

[1:41:25] Voice 13: sure

[1:41:25] Voice 13: idea

[1:41:27] Voice 8: yeah

[1:41:28] Voice 8: probably

[1:41:29] Voice 8: and

[1:41:30] Voice 3: in terms of compliance

[1:41:31] Voice 3: the

[1:41:31] Voice 3: the ITC

[1:41:33] Voice 3: would have a pretty

[1:41:34] Voice 3: yeah

[1:41:35] Voice 3: you know

[1:41:35] Voice 3: No,

[1:41:36] Voice 8: I don't pay half. It's just like we need to

[1:41:38] Voice 8: have Dutch explaining about

[1:41:39] Voice 8: this community information,

[1:41:41] Voice 8: otherwise it's just a thing.

[1:41:43] Voice 3: So I need to get information from Catherine then?

[1:41:46] Voice 3: I work pretty closely with Catherine.

[1:41:48] Voice 3: Okay. You can describe the rules on that.

[1:41:51] Voice 3: What's that?

[1:41:52] Voice 3: You can describe it.

[1:41:53] Voice 11: Well, I think I'd

[1:41:54] Voice 3: invite Catherine to come.

[1:41:55] Voice 3: Well,

[1:41:56] Voice 4: that would be great.

[1:41:56] Voice 4: Yeah.

[1:41:57] Voice 4: So, sorry.

[1:41:58] Voice 4: That

[1:41:58] Voice 2: would be awesome.

[1:42:00] Voice 2: Hannah has never had any density reserve.

[1:42:05] Voice 4: three three

[1:42:06] Voice 2: three yeah

[1:42:08] Voice 12: and this is a name and to be perfectly honest they were kind of given

[1:42:13] Voice 12: although there's not legal requirement of this but they were kindly given on the understanding by

[1:42:18] Voice 12: uh judy myers who's donated them that they would be used for conservation of the wetland at east

[1:42:23] Voice 12: point good okay so i would add to

[1:42:27] Voice 3: that like for my professional agrologist opinion that

[1:42:30] Voice 3: in particular the parts to wetland on this property is really unique it's really significant

[1:42:36] Voice 3: and in fact i think the biologist and the other part actually has more

[1:42:43] Voice 3: she saw it from google earth so there is

[1:42:46] Voice 4: and

[1:42:46] Voice 3: that's equally the same size as the other ones

[1:42:58] Voice 3: so so the biology report here right now to two and a half acres

[1:43:04] Voice 4: there's buffer zones so i don't

[1:43:07] Voice 10: have to say that i think that the um last comment is really important people would like to be

[1:43:15] Voice 10: responsible we're talking about we're talking about trade-offs between monetizing and taking

[1:43:22] Voice 10: some lots off and it's researching an area and the quality of the area or whatever information

[1:43:28] Voice 10: you have will help people understand better and also the history of that area there is very

[1:43:35] Voice 10: important i think you as you said brad that if you have a number of people um who are supportive or

[1:43:44] Voice 10: a number of people who are confused and not supportive that makes the whole thing much slower

[1:43:50] Voice 10: or so this is the opportunity to get a lot of information in and people will read that

[1:43:55] Voice 10: the people who are interested and believe it to be supportive or not this

[1:43:59] Voice 3: is just a report that i

[1:44:01] Voice 3: draw up and like yeah well

[1:44:05] Voice 10: i would say that brad around

[1:44:06] Voice 10: who is the person

[1:44:07] Voice 10: really helpful yeah

[1:44:11] Voice 11: i've been working that sounds great over here now so it was traveling well the

[1:44:15] Voice 11: The other thing that I think would be useful is an explanation

[1:44:19] Voice 11: that this particular piece of property,

[1:44:22] Voice 11: if I've heard it correctly, enjoys a worldwide, very

[1:44:27] Voice 11: good, full

[1:44:28] Voice 6: -sized

[1:44:30] Voice 11: reputation that it's not just

[1:44:32] Voice 11: a biological .

[1:44:36] Voice 11: This is from symphony music showcasing.

[1:44:40] Voice 4: I've

[1:44:40] Voice 11: heard about that.

[1:44:41] Voice 11: Yeah.

[1:44:41] Voice 11: I mean,

[1:44:44] Voice 3: it's the background noise, it's a very well-known, it's the background noise

[1:44:50] Voice 3: for the BBC birthday radio.

[1:44:54] Voice 3: It is

[1:44:58] Voice 5: well beyond

[1:45:00] Voice 3: just, this has very unique features and I think you just need to be more

[1:45:19] Voice 13: So I guess I'll turn to Planner Smith, we need a motion for you.

[1:45:23] Voice 3: You should pass a motion directing staff to schedule a CIM for the October 23rd meeting

[1:45:28] Voice 3: to

[1:45:29] Voice 4: discuss the

[1:45:30] Voice 3: proposed wetlands at Eastman.

[1:45:40] Voice 13: So I'll pass it over to Lisa.

[1:45:42] Voice 13: Did you catch that proposed motion?

[1:45:47] Voice 7: Through the chair, yes, I did.

[1:45:49] Voice 7: Would you like it read back?

[1:45:50] Voice 13: You are so attentive, please.

[1:45:53] Voice 7: That the Saturna Island Local Trust Committee

[1:45:55] Voice 7: request staff to schedule a community information meeting

[1:45:58] Voice 7: to be held during the October 23rd, 2025

[1:46:01] Voice 7: Local Trust Committee meeting

[1:46:03] Voice 7: to discuss proposal for wetlands conservation options

[1:46:06] Voice 7: at 105 Cliffside Road.

[1:46:09] Voice 13: Excellent.

[1:46:10] Voice 13: Very, very impressive.

[1:46:12] Voice 13: So would someone like to move that?

[1:46:14] Voice 13: Yes, I'll move that as read back to us.

[1:46:18] Voice 13: Okay, so it's a trustee number.

[1:46:19] Voice 13: I'll section that.

[1:46:20] Voice 13: That could be a trustee.

[1:46:21] Voice 13: Go on, okay, make discussion.

[1:46:23] Voice 13: I'll question, I'll favor.

[1:46:25] Voice 13: That carries.

[1:46:26] Voice 13: And would you like to have an 11 o'clock start for that meeting?

[1:46:30] Voice 13: Yes.

[1:46:31] Voice 13: We

[1:46:31] Voice 8: have, I think, logistically

[1:46:32] Voice 13: speaking, I think we can set it up for no problem.

[1:46:34] Voice 8: Yeah, just give us time.

[1:46:35] Voice 12: Just so you know,

[1:46:36] Voice 12: we're going time-wise.

[1:46:37] Voice 12: I think it's good, too, because I guess, like, there's been a lot of behind-the-scenes work.

[1:46:41] Voice 12: and so this now gets the, shall we say,

[1:46:44] Voice 12: the back and forth out into the public realm

[1:46:46] Voice 12: where ultimately it has to be sanctioned by the public.

[1:46:49] Voice 12: So there's no point else behind the scenes

[1:46:51] Voice 12: saying, oh, that sounds great.

[1:46:53] Voice 12: Ultimately, we have to look forward to the public

[1:46:55] Voice 12: and it may change in response to the public.

[1:46:59] Voice 12: Or you may, you know, want to see it play out differently.

[1:47:03] Voice 12: At least we're on a track then where we're on a moving forward.

[1:47:07] Voice 12: You

[1:47:07] Voice 8: need a big, big map.

[1:47:09] Voice 12: So I got to do that big map?

[1:47:10] Voice 12: Yeah,

[1:47:11] Voice 8: we'll bring it in.

[1:47:13] Voice 3: Six.

[1:47:15] Voice 3: So get that.

[1:47:16] Voice 3: Then I stand here and point to the

[1:47:19] Voice 3: I think it's

[1:47:20] Voice 5: Oh.

[1:47:23] Voice 3: We'll work with you to fix it.

[1:47:26] Voice 3: Okay.

[1:47:27] Voice 3: Okay.

[1:47:29] Voice 11: Yeah.

[1:47:35] Voice 8: You should also cover the

[1:47:38] Voice 8: options you've discussed

[1:47:42] Voice 9: it's just

[1:47:43] Voice 9: because

[1:47:43] Voice 8: otherwise people don't want you

[1:47:45] Voice 8: considered you know so

[1:47:47] Voice 8: you could just have that all

[1:47:49] Voice 3: yeah I think

[1:47:51] Voice 8: that would be radically

[1:47:52] Voice 10: one thing

[1:47:55] Voice 3: you could do is submit a more detailed letter

[1:47:57] Voice 3: if you propose one

[1:47:59] Voice 3: so it's like like so you

[1:48:01] Voice 3: provide a bit of an email

[1:48:02] Voice 3: what you want to do but if you formalize that

[1:48:05] Voice 3: it's more of a detailed letter with the app attached

[1:48:09] Voice 3: So that would give me some time to really put out as much as I think

[1:48:18] Voice 15: the letter from

[1:48:19] Voice 15: you saying this is what I want.

[1:48:21] Voice 3: And I think

[1:48:22] Voice 15: that at some point, if moving forward, like,

[1:48:24] Voice 3: so, so, Keith, your, your biologics

[1:48:28] Voice 3: just provided the map with some biological assessment of rationale, but I think at some

[1:48:33] Voice 3: Some might go to the trustees and the ITC would require like an actual assessment report for Keith that is more than what he's already done.

[1:48:45] Voice 3: Yeah, he would understand what that is, like an actual history of the property, you know, the floor, the fauna, what would be done, what protections that would offer in a more laid out way than that.

[1:49:00] Voice 3: And he would, he would really understand what, what I'm talking to. Okay. And I work pretty closely.

[1:49:07] Voice 3: He's an expert.

[1:49:10] Voice 10: I don't know the patient's mapping, but it's one of the best uses of the truss I could consider.

[1:49:16] Voice 10: So I'm thoroughly supportive. White maps with, with black outlines for some people are very obtuse.

[1:49:24] Voice 10: and I know that the Trust has some absolutely stunning aerial photography of areas like that,

[1:49:31] Voice 10: so I would suggest one of those superimposed with where lot lines are and stuff like that,

[1:49:36] Voice 10: would be really, really, that would be worth many words, and people can comprehend much more quickly.

[1:49:42] Voice 4: Excellent. I'll send you what I've got, an email, is that your call?

[1:49:57] Voice 13: Okay, so can we safely say we're done with that one?

[1:50:00] Voice 8: Yep.

[1:50:01] Voice 8: That was a hell of a time.

[1:50:03] Voice 8: Is that still going on?

[1:50:07] Voice 13: That's kind of what we spotted.

[1:50:08] Voice 13: It may be a record.

[1:50:10] Voice 13: No, well, I used to tell her a lot about this.

[1:50:12] Voice 13: Well, yes,

[1:50:14] Voice 8: and you're allowed to let it teach, okay?

[1:50:20] Voice 11: Thank you very much.

[1:50:22] Voice 13: Thank you, Steve.

[1:50:23] Voice 13: Thank you all for your time.

[1:50:24] Voice 13: Thank you.

[1:50:26] Voice 13: This is time well spent.

[1:50:28] Voice 13: Yes, it's good.

[1:50:29] Voice 13: Yes.

[1:50:30] Voice 13: Good.

[1:50:32] Voice 13: So, now on page four, we have minutes before us.

[1:50:40] Voice 13: local trust committee minutes dated april 24th 25th for information yeah um we have the section

[1:50:48] Voice 13: uh 26 because we've been about anyway fourth on page 12 for july 20 25 for information um

[1:50:58] Voice 13: i just i'll ask kind of smith the the april 24th minutes worked for adoption we talked

[1:51:05] Voice 13: talk to them by rwm i guess yeah there's so much that goes inside of my head i lose track

[1:51:11] Voice 13: sir all right so of course once we've dealt with um applications for referrals so now we're on

[1:51:18] Voice 13: page 15 self-pandered local trust committee referral proposed file number 29 for a response

[1:51:25] Voice 13: so are the interests of saturn island affected by this

[1:51:34] Voice 8: No, I didn't see anything that I wanted to, you know, raise.

[1:51:39] Voice 8: I'm

[1:51:40] Voice 13: waiting for the day. So we need a motion to say that our interests are unabated.

[1:51:45] Voice 8: It's on page 15.

[1:51:49] Voice 13: Is that there?

[1:51:52] Voice 13: That's one of the weaknesses is we do not propose motion.

[1:51:55] Voice 8: Okay, so all I need to do, though, is that I move that

[1:51:59] Voice 8: the Saturna Island Local Trust Committee

[1:52:02] Voice 8: proposed bylaw. So what language do you think is at the end?

[1:52:06] Voice 8: I

[1:52:06] Voice 15: would say that the Saturna Island Local Trust Committee

[1:52:11] Voice 15: interests are unaffected by bylaw, proposed bylaw

[1:52:14] Voice 15: 29%

[1:52:16] Voice 8: So

[1:52:17] Voice 13: moved. I'm assuming that they just caught that. Seconded by

[1:52:22] Voice 13: Trustee Middleton? Any further discussion? No questions?

[1:52:26] Voice 13: All in favour? That carries.

[1:52:28] Voice 13: And now we have 15.2, Maynard Hall, was the trust committee referral for the proposed file 194 and 195 for response.

[1:52:37] Voice 8: Do you want to do that, Lee? Say the language.

[1:52:41] Voice 8: I am

[1:52:41] Voice 13: outraged that you are considering permitting the bicycle ramp.

[1:52:45] Voice 13: I do apologise.

[1:52:46] Voice 13: guys they it was actually like that's one of the things i would know is there's a bit of a mission

[1:52:52] Voice 13: detail there is that all of those restricted to one house so they'll have one bicycle rack one

[1:52:58] Voice 13: kilos because this is a substantial conservation property and there were plans for quite a bit of

[1:53:05] Voice 13: development on it so we restricted down quite narrowly um to what they can and cannot do

[1:53:16] Voice 13: our director in syria is not really happy with you about that but one

[1:53:20] Voice 8: bicycle okay i assume it

[1:53:23] Voice 8: holds more than one bicycle yeah

[1:53:27] Voice 12: all right i will uh uh move that uh the student idol highland local trust committee's interests

[1:53:36] Voice 12: are unaffected by by law 194-195-891-LTC. Thank you. Any further

[1:53:46] Voice 13: discussion? Call the

[1:53:48] Voice 13: question. All in favor? That carries. We're just moving along. Shocking.

[1:53:54] Voice 13: Okay, so now

[1:53:56] Voice 13: we are looking across the projects on page 22, minor housing amendments project, and

[1:54:03] Voice 13: have a staff report and we have a staff member so i'm sure he's going to go ahead and squills

[1:54:09] Voice 3: sorry thank you chair so this is bringing back bylaw number 143 for consideration on next steps

[1:54:16] Voice 3: by the local trust community this is the bylaw that we would mean by your land use bylaws to

[1:54:24] Voice 3: change the salt water and surely location where secondary suites are permitted

[1:54:31] Voice 3: It's mostly updated saltwater intrusion mapping.

[1:54:36] Voice 3: It also provides a proposed recommendation of fresh water

[1:54:43] Voice 3: for consideration of the local trust community

[1:54:46] Voice 3: that has been provided by trust,

[1:54:51] Voice 3: Freshwater Specialist, SHOLDA.

[1:54:54] Voice 3: And staff are recommending that you give notice

[1:54:58] Voice 3: or that you initiate notice of first reading

[1:55:00] Voice 3: at your next meeting.

[1:55:01] Voice 3: and then you can give first, second, and third reading at that

[1:55:05] Voice 3: meeting and send it to Executive Committee at that time.

[1:55:08] Voice 3: That's consistent with your opinion.

[1:55:13] Voice 3: What else about you, Chair?

[1:55:15] Voice 3: I'm

[1:55:15] Voice 8: happy to move that. I think the updated map is more sensible.

[1:55:24] Voice 8: I think correcting the details, that was a bit of a conversion.

[1:55:36] Voice 8: So the 21,800 was an unintended consequence, so 18,000 metres makes sense in terms of the

[1:55:45] Voice 8: size of the tankage that's available, etc.

[1:55:49] Voice 8: So we're making that correction and I think the update to fresh water is also a good thing

[1:56:00] Voice 8: going to do. So, I will, sorry, did you want to say anything, Lee?

[1:56:08] Voice 4: No, no. Okay. You're doing great.

[1:56:11] Voice 8: Yeah. So, do we need to go through these recommendations?

[1:56:17] Voice 8: We need to read each one. Okay. So, I moved that the Saturna Island Global Trust Committee

[1:56:25] Voice 8: Committee amends draft bylaw No. 143, cited as Saturna Island Land Use Bylaw 119.20.18,

[1:56:35] Voice 8: amendment No. 1.20.24, by including the definition of fresh water as provided by staff in the

[1:56:41] Voice 8: July 25, 2025 staff report.

[1:56:48] Voice 13: Okay, but I'm just confused just slightly by the dates there.

[1:56:57] Voice 2: so

[1:56:57] Voice 13: so it says july 25th 2025 staff report that's tomorrow

[1:57:08] Voice 3: so it just needs to be joined okay sorry lisa can you change that first resolution

[1:57:15] Voice 3: through the

[1:57:19] Voice 7: chair yes planner smith i'll do that

[1:57:20] Voice 13: perfect thank you very much second by trustee

[1:57:24] Voice 13: Melvin, for the discussion.

[1:57:26] Voice 13: I've got a question.

[1:57:27] Voice 13: All in favor? That carries.

[1:57:31] Voice 8: I'll carry on.

[1:57:32] Voice 8: Yes. I believe that the

[1:57:34] Voice 8: Ceterna Island Local Trust

[1:57:36] Voice 8: Committee has reviewed the Island's Trust Policy

[1:57:38] Voice 8: Statement Directives, only

[1:57:40] Voice 8: checklist, and

[1:57:42] Voice 8: determined that Bylaw No.

[1:57:44] Voice 8: 143, cited as

[1:57:45] Voice 8: Ceterna Island Land Use Bylaw No.

[1:57:48] Voice 8: 119, 211,

[1:57:49] Voice 8: Amendment No. 124,

[1:57:52] Voice 8: is not contrary to

[1:57:54] Voice 8: or a variance of the Ireland's Trust Policy Statement.

[1:57:57] Voice 13: Second.

[1:57:59] Voice 13: Seconded.

[1:58:00] Voice 13: Any further discussion?

[1:58:01] Voice 13: Call the question on the favour?

[1:58:03] Voice 13: I carry this.

[1:58:04] Voice 8: I move that the Ceterna Island Local Trust Committee direct staff to initiate notice

[1:58:09] Voice 8: of first reading for draft bylaw number 143,

[1:58:12] Voice 8: cited as Ceterna Island Land Use Bylaw number 119-2018,

[1:58:19] Voice 8: amendment number 1, 2024.

[1:58:22] Voice 13: Second.

[1:58:23] Voice 13: Second.

[1:58:23] Voice 13: to the discussion call a question okay and that here is excellent work

[1:58:29] Voice 13: all right so now we're moving on to

[1:58:40] Voice 13: wow yeah

[1:58:41] Voice 10: i i really think it's so exciting i have just uh let's see we've had two short

[1:58:48] Voice 10: days of brand here i'm in the middle where there's tons of water all right and um all

[1:58:55] Voice 10: indications are that we are getting more and more to a drought um a permanent drought but we are

[1:59:01] Voice 10: changing our limits you can read it you can see it everywhere we have trees all over here that are

[1:59:07] Voice 10: dying and throbbing so there we go thank you i think the black the west is pretty bad i mean do

[1:59:20] Voice 10: you notice that do you see that do

[1:59:23] Voice 12: you notice the influence on the reliance on the rainbow

[1:59:26] Voice 12: water catchment in this work i would respond to you because that's the solution to a lot of this

[1:59:35] Voice 12: would you not agree yeah

[1:59:36] Voice 13: which i think is very much the

[1:59:39] Voice 12: future and how exciting we have been

[1:59:42] Voice 12: on my direct your hire to the appropriate location by the ministry of transportation

[1:59:47] Voice 12: and infrastructure around use of rainwater catchment in terms of providing um

[1:59:53] Voice 12: I mean, for some different purposes, I mean.

[2:00:00] Voice 12: i think we're we've obviously all got a lot of work to do here um and no one willing policy

[2:00:11] Voice 12: which this is just a component is obviously sufficient to um to uh you know achieve the

[2:00:18] Voice 12: goal we want which is you know i totally agree with what you're saying about the environment but

[2:00:23] Voice 10: uh which is the goal that we want just that's what i'm sure i think

[2:00:26] Voice 12: we want to shift to

[2:00:27] Voice 12: as much as possible,

[2:00:29] Voice 12: or the domestic body use,

[2:00:33] Voice 12: because that will remove

[2:00:35] Voice 12: significant pressure on the groundwater.

[2:00:37] Voice 12: Now, I know there's a difference of opinion

[2:00:38] Voice 12: about the viability of groundwater.

[2:00:41] Voice 12: I'm kind of more in your opinion

[2:00:42] Voice 12: that we should preserve the use of precautionary principles,

[2:00:48] Voice 12: shall we say,

[2:00:48] Voice 12: and we don't have the availability of groundwater.

[2:00:52] Voice 12: Groundwater, aquifers, such as we have them,

[2:00:54] Voice 12: I think we can therefore all agree

[2:00:55] Voice 12: reef a totally beneficial way forward would be use of um of catchment and that's something i mean

[2:01:03] Voice 12: this model doesn't totally promote or push that i grant you but it's certainly paving the way

[2:01:10] Voice 12: and so no

[2:01:11] Voice 13: but i i have a bias i have fifteen thousand gallons of rainwater catching i try

[2:01:16] Voice 13: not to use any of it well it is and you know it's been and i've stated many times in both

[2:01:23] Voice 13: with us committee meetings you know while i would support would be bad it's really

[2:01:30] Voice 10: it's the ones i have waters now that i'm watching that lake from down down

[2:01:34] Voice 10: there has been

[2:01:36] Voice 10: no replenishment so far and i'm not talking about june i'm talking about

[2:01:41] Voice 10: this winter yes summer replenishment let's

[2:01:46] Voice 11: try do you think it

[2:01:48] Voice 11: would be strategically

[2:01:51] Voice 11: wise

[2:01:52] Voice 11: when you meet the

[2:01:55] Voice 11: Interminister of Municipal Affairs

[2:01:56] Voice 11: to perhaps

[2:01:58] Voice 11: put this in his

[2:02:01] Voice 11: desk to bring leverage

[2:02:03] Voice 11: to

[2:02:05] Voice 11: the

[2:02:07] Voice 11: Sierra Leone Health Board of

[2:02:08] Voice 11: the Regional Authority and

[2:02:10] Voice 11: because this is

[2:02:13] Voice 11: badly stuck at the

[2:02:15] Voice 11: provincial level.

[2:02:16] Voice 11: I think we're all saying on the same page

[2:02:19] of saying you've got to be able to get rainwater, correct the rainwater into your house in accordance

[2:02:26] with Sunbroker's standard. That is the sticking point on this whole conversation. And I just

[2:02:34] Voice 11: want to say, is there a way to really prevent the Canadians to say, you really want to do

[2:02:41] Voice 11: something for this province? That's what needs to be done. It needs to be watered.

[2:02:47] Voice 13: it's just it's one of those difficult issues is that oftentimes the ministry of the approving

[2:02:55] Voice 13: officer from the ministry for subdivision is in conflict with the island's trust that's one of

[2:03:00] Voice 13: the things i've been advocating for us is to get subdivision authority within the island's trust

[2:03:05] Voice 13: so that everything is in-house so you know in

[2:03:08] Voice 11: a generally consistent way

[2:03:10] Voice 13: because there's this

[2:03:13] Voice 13: We've dealt with a couple of conflicts in the Northern Islands, where you know, the

[2:03:18] Voice 13: trust committee is here, the approving officer's perception is there, and it's just like, but

[2:03:26] Voice 13: we're the ones who are trying to preserve and protect, and he's the one who's trying

[2:03:30] Voice 13: to develop 66-foot right-of-ways.

[2:03:33] Voice 13: And

[2:03:33] Voice 11: it's a huge, bigger discussion.

[2:03:41] Voice 13: It's definitely on our agenda.

[2:03:42] Voice 13: you know because we we all can work together there's sometimes there's a lot of conflict

[2:03:46] Voice 13: between what the approving officer of some vision wants to do versus what our staff and

[2:03:52] Voice 13: our trustees want to do so we're working on it and yes it's not it's

[2:03:57] Voice 8: a good point and we can

[2:03:59] Voice 8: also range out with rob bottle because um he asked for at the southern gulf islands forum

[2:04:05] Voice 8: and he has asked us for ideas that he can promote.

[2:04:09] Voice 8: Anything you want to say?

[2:04:11] Voice 8: I mean, basically, they're saying that rainwater catchment is an unproven.

[2:04:17] Voice 8: The response to John Gaines was,

[2:04:20] Voice 8: we certainly will approve it if you show us the installation

[2:04:26] Voice 8: before you've built anything, which is a way of telling us,

[2:04:31] Voice 8: okay, we recognise that CETERNA promotes rainwater catchment

[2:04:35] Voice 8: and allows it and we can't we're not overriding that but as the approving officers for the

[2:04:43] Voice 8: subdivision you have to have it all installed and up and running which is kind of yeah which

[2:04:49] Voice 8: you physically

[2:04:50] Voice 9: can't do no

[2:04:51] Voice 8: so and then they said and then they said that you could comment so

[2:04:57] Voice 8: So it's an impasse at the moment, which is, you know,

[2:05:03] Voice 8: far be it from us to deny you the right to say that it's okay.

[2:05:08] Voice 8: But here's the deal from our perspective,

[2:05:09] Voice 8: because we're required to see proof that you can deliver

[2:05:14] Voice 8: 2,000 metres of water a day,

[2:05:16] Voice 8: which is way beyond anything anybody uses on these islands.

[2:05:21] Voice 8: But it's the standard amount that's used in all their calculations

[2:05:25] Voice 8: and estimates.

[2:05:27] Voice 8: So, there's a whole lot of different pieces to the puzzle, which are very frustrating.

[2:05:33] Voice 8: Right.

[2:05:34] Voice 8: Okay.

[2:05:35] Voice 8: So,

[2:05:35] Voice 13: page 36, we have active projects reports.

[2:05:39] Voice 13: I think Christy is going to raise, or Clive Smith?

[2:05:44] Voice 4: You're looking

[2:05:45] Voice 4: through your housing projects, as we spoke to.

[2:05:49] Voice 13: So, page 37, we have future projects report.

[2:05:52] Voice 13: And, for your information, I should read the questions.

[2:05:55] Voice 8: I was thinking with respect to future projects should we I mean we do kind of randomly you know

[2:06:02] Voice 8: go we could do this and we could do that but should we schedule a sort of little brainstorming

[2:06:07] Voice 8: session because sometimes things come up like today which is the amenity density use for things

[2:06:15] Voice 8: other than conservation and multi-family residential stuff the affordable multi-family

[2:06:26] Voice 8: residential possibility of the area behind carefree court but it's an A&R zone so I just feel like

[2:06:34] Voice 8: we should have a brainstorming session where we put those all on the table and then say

[2:06:39] Voice 8: sometimes they're interconnected and you start down a path trying to do well

[2:06:44] Voice 8: offend and you end up thinking that why did we start this but it was actually to achieve

[2:06:49] Voice 8: something else so because we have

[2:06:54] Voice 8: like

[2:06:55] Voice 12: the subdivision regulations we know how much

[2:06:59] Voice 12: re-approving officers hands are sort of tied by you know legislative direction that they don't

[2:07:06] Voice 12: they're statutorily not permitted to advocate against that's why they're you know appointed

[2:07:11] Voice 12: is to be an independent implementing authority.

[2:07:16] Voice 12: And so that's kind of the law meaning them

[2:07:20] Voice 12: is completely useless because they have no ability

[2:07:23] Voice 12: to adapt, you know, what we're asking them for.

[2:07:29] Voice 12: And so I think the one item that has come off

[2:07:34] Voice 12: that I think we've heard from community

[2:07:36] Voice 12: that want to have lots of input into

[2:07:38] Voice 12: to is perhaps the change of the use of the densities

[2:07:43] Voice 12: in the Canada to accommodate accessible, affordable,

[2:07:48] Voice 12: whatever word is more appropriate housing initiatives.

[2:07:54] Voice 12: Because I think we should probably sooner than later

[2:07:58] Voice 12: kind of get back on the track with the BC Parks Foundation

[2:08:03] Voice 12: about them releasing the 29 densities

[2:08:07] Voice 12: is on the former uh mr ronald properties that they now hold and they've admitted

[2:08:13] Voice 12: they express an interest in if the circumstances that they're not actually promoting unecological

[2:08:21] Voice 12: practices that they will be willing to release the 29 densities to the community many density reserve

[2:08:29] Voice 12: but in good conscience we know we can't use all those densities for conservation there's

[2:08:35] Voice 12: on and you know remaining opportunities that we're aware of to do that and the currency is of course

[2:08:40] Voice 12: building a house and so we may as well get into what does it look like to be constructing in an

[2:08:49] Voice 12: economically sensitive manner and increasing densities in a way that increases affordability

[2:08:55] Voice 12: and get that enshrined in the categories of other points of requirements cp amendment so that's

[2:09:01] Voice 12: it's a big project and probably will take us through to the end of the term to do i would

[2:09:06] Voice 12: think but it's necessary work you know we have to we have to do it the community wants input onto it

[2:09:12] Voice 12: um and i think it's quite likely we can get those 29 densities that's a big deal that's a chunk of

[2:09:20] Voice 12: densities on the side that's up to you know with families potentially that's over 100 people who

[2:09:25] Voice 12: we might be able to um um develop the development for with those densities so that's that's that's

[2:09:32] Voice 12: significant so we need to get that right and we need to be sure the public has had the chance to

[2:09:38] Voice 12: give us input and be comfortable with what it is we're proposing so i don't know if that's

[2:09:44] Voice 12: that where that sits now in terms of that is that a future project have we completed on a minor

[2:09:52] Voice 12: or promise and commandments review project in terms of we had a point but we can pause it um

[2:09:59] Voice 12: i don't i don't know so

[2:10:01] Voice 8: yeah i see three things that we go ahead

[2:10:05] Voice 8: to the

[2:10:07] Voice 3: chair so we're right in the middle of bylaw 143 right right so you have to

[2:10:13] Voice 3: pause that or finish that situation and i think a discussion around future projects

[2:10:20] Voice 3: uh you're getting pretty near the end of your time uh so in terms of uh a discussion on what

[2:10:25] Voice 3: starting maybe the project would look like you're pretty limited in what you could probably uh

[2:10:30] Voice 3: delivering this term so i think really the conversation might start to occur around what

[2:10:35] Voice 3: your priorities are for next term if not saying that you were going to look at the decisions

[2:10:43] Voice 3: So, like, for example, reviewing the subdivision regulations would probably take a year or two.

[2:10:54] Voice 3: So,

[2:10:55] Voice 12: I guess we have the bylaw enforcement policy, which is obviously on our agenda.

[2:11:02] Voice 12: So,

[2:11:02] Voice 8: where

[2:11:04] Voice 12: does that fit in terms of our project?

[2:11:07] Voice 12: We're obviously doing it, so it's a project that does not...

[2:11:16] Voice 3: I would say that that isn't a project, it looks like an administrative piece.

[2:11:28] Voice 3: Being delivered by the Violent Enforcement Department is more than a training project,

[2:11:39] Voice 12: I would say maybe what we do is we replace review of L. U. B.

[2:11:49] Voice 12: Subdivision regulations with review of

[2:11:52] Voice 12: of CADR use criteria, I think we would call it that,

[2:12:00] Voice 12: and then we park it there for now

[2:12:02] Voice 12: until we've got a space, hopefully,

[2:12:03] Voice 12: for the next meeting or so to get on with it.

[2:12:06] Voice 12: Because, I mean, it's eminently doable,

[2:12:08] Voice 12: how the OCP amendment gets passed,

[2:12:11] Voice 12: but obviously we'd have to have somebody

[2:12:12] Voice 12: write it all earlier in the year,

[2:12:15] Voice 12: and we'd have a guest, we'd have a scheme guest.

[2:12:19] Voice 12: I don't know, Justine.

[2:12:21] Voice 12: and so do you want to

[2:12:23] Voice 12: set some reason why we're not

[2:12:25] Voice 8: asking anybody

[2:12:26] Voice 12: to do anything

[2:12:27] Voice 12: the

[2:12:27] Voice 8: only thing I feel is that

[2:12:29] Voice 8: if we don't address the constraint

[2:12:31] Voice 8: on MF4 at more or less

[2:12:34] Voice 8: the same time we're going to have to

[2:12:35] Voice 8: do a subvention because we're

[2:12:37] Voice 8: going to create the capability

[2:12:40] Voice 8: to

[2:12:41] Voice 8: use those densities

[2:12:43] Voice 8: I

[2:12:43] Voice 12: see that's what's went by

[2:12:45] Voice 12: I was thinking about

[2:12:46] Voice 12: I conflated that with water

[2:12:49] Voice 12: they're proof of water but that's not that line it's

[2:12:52] Voice 8: the mfr being constrained to senior housing

[2:12:57] Voice 8: etc so if we don't do that at the same time as we look at the use of the density bank then we'll end

[2:13:07] Voice 8: up with density so we could potentially use but without a zoning possibility does that make sense

[2:13:15] Voice 8: that's brought to you.

[2:13:19] Voice 8: Thank you for your support.

[2:13:36] Voice 3: So

[2:13:36] Voice 8: at the moment, the NFR is the Muncie Family Residence.

[2:13:42] Voice 15: Yes.

[2:13:42] Voice 15: Yes, so that is a part of your current project, but you've decided not to do anything.

[2:13:47] Voice 8: No, but that is just parked temporarily, because we can't use a multifamily residential zoning or apply it to anywhere other than for senior housing.

[2:14:00] Voice 8: It's quite restricted, in the same way as the density bank can only be used for quite restricted places.

[2:14:07] Voice 8: So in my view, if we have the goal of having a multi-family residential place where we can have affordable housing and we can use these densities that we may get, then we have to fix both of those at the same time.

[2:14:30] Voice 8: so

[2:14:31] Voice 3: you could continue on with that part of your current project and

[2:14:40] Voice 3: you would require an OCP amendment to amend your cadre to allow for some broader housing or some

[2:14:49] Voice 3: other community use other than once so you would need to initiate another bylaw amendment process

[2:14:56] Voice 3: process to amend your OCP to change your category, and you would also need to amend your zoning

[2:15:05] Voice 3: to permit a broader use in your MFR zone, and you might need to change your OCP, which

[2:15:11] Voice 3: takes only two, and it really depends if you want that MFR zone to be just non-profit versus

[2:15:19] Voice 3: what we talked about, like the broader zone of commercial development, and those are both

[2:15:23] Voice 3: two different positions.

[2:15:25] Voice 8: Yeah, but do you see my point about if I think they go hand in hand?

[2:15:30] Voice 8: Well,

[2:15:30] Voice 3: you could do

[2:15:31] Voice 15: both of those things together now.

[2:15:32] Voice 8: Okay. What do you think?

[2:15:34] Voice 12: If that's what you want to do.

[2:15:36] Voice 12: Well, we've got, we're restricted to this one. It can only be activity on one project at a time.

[2:15:43] Voice 3: But it could be

[2:15:44] Voice 3: part of, because the scope of your housing project right now is to look at the cisterns across, which you've worked on and decided not to do.

[2:15:53] Voice 15: to update your secondary suite mapping which is the bylaw that's in front of you and the third

[2:15:58] Voice 15: part of that was to look at your animal forest zoning and

[2:16:03] Voice 3: I think we evolved that conversation

[2:16:05] Voice 3: to more broadly look at what some of the other islands are doing around accessory dwelling units

[2:16:10] Voice 3: and how do you create more flexibility. I think last time we met we talked about those densities

[2:16:17] Voice 3: if we talk about the priority let's just get them into the cadder and then you can figure out in the

[2:16:23] Voice 3: future potentially through a different project how you would amend the ocd to enable those for

[2:16:34] Voice 3: housing so those

[2:16:36] Voice 12: are your options because it seems to me that the only densities that might be able

[2:16:42] Voice 12: to be converted to any multi-family situation would be those that come out of the CAGR otherwise

[2:16:50] Voice 12: you're dealing with the current crop of densities that everybody's always developed on

[2:16:53] Voice 12: with the understanding that it limits the development of x acres per log.

[2:17:00] Voice 12: You could

[2:17:01] Voice 3: also amend your

[2:17:02] Voice 3: OCP to say that there's no increase in density except for four months.

[2:17:07] Voice 3: Right.

[2:17:07] Voice 12: And the category

[2:17:09] Voice 12: that I know of on Gabriel, it says exactly that. It's requirement. It's got two clauses, conservation or affordable housing. They've never used it, but they are in there.

[2:17:21] Voice 12: so um so how was he percent because i think that's right we want to repeat

[2:17:29] Voice 12: moving while there's some momentum with the pc parks foundation to get those 29 densities into

[2:17:36] Voice 12: our cab their issue would be if we had intent to use those densities for housing then we tell them

[2:17:45] Voice 12: what protections will there be well we currently can actually have the intent to use them for

[2:17:51] Voice 12: housing because they kind of doesn't permit that so i wonder if we almost just proceed with securing

[2:17:57] Voice 12: under the current context of the of the uh the cattle requirements to secure those densities

[2:18:04] Voice 12: that way um

[2:18:14] Voice 2: making a project so large the public won't buy it because it's too much to buy more

[2:18:23] Voice 2: try and keep your focus narrow to the best possible way with the idea that let's say that

[2:18:31] Voice 2: at affordable housing, affordable housing or brings with it all sorts of abilities,

[2:18:41] Voice 2: because I like the idea that they've got affordable housing and conservation.

[2:18:47] Voice 2: That's a relatively simple thing to deal with. You bring in the zoning now and all the rest of it,

[2:18:54] Voice 2: you've complicated it, and you've also extended your timelines. Zero in is my attitude. Get out

[2:19:02] Voice 2: at the heart of the 29 densities that we could pick up

[2:19:05] Voice 8: and

[2:19:06] Voice 2: leave the rest to the next generation.

[2:19:09] Voice 8: Okay, I have another thing.

[2:19:13] Voice 8: Yes, Senator.

[2:19:15] Voice 10: My suggestion is I have densities that I would probably donate and I only want

[2:19:20] Voice 10: them used for conservation with the exact definitions that you have for Canada and I

[2:19:25] Voice 10: believe I never would have supported collecting densities if it hadn't been that it was only for

[2:19:32] Voice 10: conservation. This was like 10 years ago, earlier than that. And I don't, I see great value to that,

[2:19:43] Voice 10: particularly preserve and protect. So do I understand that Judy has put her three

[2:19:52] Voice 10: densities into the cutouts it is now? So by definition, it can only be used

[2:19:59] Voice 10: use for purchase, like you just mentioned, Peter, that it could be utilized in that transaction.

[2:20:05] Voice 10: And then maybe you want some other kind of density holding thing.

[2:20:12] Voice 10: Okay, so that's one part.

[2:20:14] Voice 10: And the other part is I have never understood affordable housing.

[2:20:17] Voice 10: We have a whole bunch of studies here, and to me, affordable housing is almost man-based

[2:20:23] Voice 10: charter house in which you don't have a finite amount of equity, which is probably which

[2:20:28] Voice 10: which almost all of us started with.

[2:20:30] Voice 10: I can think of the first hub that I encountered with my husband.

[2:20:35] Voice 10: So affordable housing has detonations this wide.

[2:20:40] Voice 10: I

[2:20:40] Voice 12: think that's exactly what we would do.

[2:20:42] Voice 12: I mean, there are definitions.

[2:20:43] Voice 12: I think what we're talking about in Canada would be ways of bringing the cost of housing down

[2:20:49] Voice 12: to beat that type of opportunity, but you still have the equity in them,

[2:20:55] Voice 12: when it'd be like clustered housing or some other approaches to kind of building housing where you

[2:21:01] Voice 12: share the cost of the of the key infrastructure like the water and the static but these are

[2:21:06] Voice 12: exactly the conversations we would have as part of that project where we're looking at what criteria

[2:21:12] Voice 12: would we use for using a density for housing purposes i

[2:21:19] Voice 10: mean it gets in wow look at that

[2:21:22] so it's just

[2:21:24] Voice 12: released by our compensation that's right

[2:21:26] Voice 10: or we're just blowing something um so so

[2:21:30] Voice 10: there's really large uh philosophical things that need need to be decided so with the limitations on

[2:21:39] Voice 10: that judy myers has placed on her uh destiny and i would like to place on mine it is solely for

[2:21:48] Voice 10: stuff like wetlands or something like that so where would you get lots so

[2:21:55] Voice 12: keep in mind a density

[2:21:56] Voice 12: though is still the permit to build a house even though it's used to protect wetland it is still

[2:22:03] Voice 12: it only has value because it allows peter to build three houses on lots he couldn't have

[2:22:08] Voice 12: otherwise done so so you're not you're actually moving density around and in my view just moving

[2:22:15] Voice 12: Moving into, I mean, Rob's talked about this, just moving into our current ability to develop on five acre minimum lots,

[2:22:25] Voice 6: there's

[2:22:26] Voice 12: very little option.

[2:22:27] Voice 12: We could never use those 29 densities to that purpose.

[2:22:30] Voice 12: There's just not enough land left, right?

[2:22:32] Voice 12: So even in your densities, right, to meaningfully use them, the only way they equate into a currency of conservation is if somebody builds something with them, right?

[2:22:43] Voice 12: That's how the category is structured.

[2:22:47] Voice 12: Yeah, I just have one opportunity to extinguish them, I suppose.

[2:22:50] Voice 12: But anyway, I think this is exactly the conversation we

[2:22:54] Voice 10: need to have,

[2:22:55] Voice 12: right?

[2:22:56] Voice 12: I

[2:22:56] Voice 10: think there's a lot to understand to make your decisions.

[2:23:02] Voice 3: I personally think it's a separate problem that you're starting to get away from

[2:23:06] Voice 3: because you're starting to talk about how your OCP functions in terms of density

[2:23:11] Voice 3: and like you could just simply amend your OCP language to say that like right now your OCP states

[2:23:20] Voice 3: well

[2:23:24] Voice 15: your OCP more or less states that by zoning permit or any other

[2:23:28] Voice 3: means you can't increase

[2:23:30] Voice 3: density you could just change that to say except for four bottles and then that would be then you

[2:23:37] Voice 3: wouldn't be worrying about scattered entities or anything else and you could even further describe

[2:23:43] Voice 3: driver of what that affordable housing means. So what does

[2:23:46] Voice 3: affordable housing mean? It means non-profit, subsidized

[2:23:50] Voice 3: housing that meets the criteria of affordability in place.

[2:23:55] Voice 3: BC Housing defines affordable housing as

[2:23:58] Voice 3: not more than 30% of your income. So that is

[2:24:02] Voice 3: the pretty base measure for what's affordable housing.

[2:24:06] Voice 3: So we don't

[2:24:08] Voice 8: need to think about that right now.

[2:24:10] Voice 8: we can just look

[2:24:11] Voice 8: forward so what

[2:24:13] Voice 3: i think sorry just didn't work where we were last meeting is

[2:24:16] Voice 3: you're going to set up a meeting with us with the parks foundation i think we should have that

[2:24:20] Voice 3: meeting and have that conversation and just said can you transfer these densities with understanding

[2:24:26] Voice 3: that right now they can only be one of conservation and potentially in the future we may either

[2:24:32] Voice 3: broaden our cp to allow affordable housing or we may consider some scheme to have a little bit more

[2:24:38] Voice 3: rigor around how we use those densities to create some kind of

[2:24:41] Voice 3: cattle mechanism for housing and would

[2:24:45] Voice 3: be open to that as long as the criteria of affordability

[2:24:49] Voice 3: and non-profit and all those other things. I'm assuming that

[2:24:53] Voice 3: because lots

[2:24:54] Voice 12: are gone, they don't really care.

[2:24:55] Voice 12: Yeah, I think

[2:24:57] Voice 12: that's probably the way to, because my concern was, and no cows.

[2:25:00] Voice 12: Yeah,

[2:25:01] Voice 3: and let's tell us something is

[2:25:03] Voice 12: dead set against

[2:25:05] Voice 12: or they'll say no we want you to have those criteria laid out for us to move on it and

[2:25:13] Voice 12: their concern was not so much development it was ecological destruction through development

[2:25:19] Voice 12: they wanted to avoid they wanted to displace conservation to cause destruction

[2:25:24] Voice 12: so

[2:25:25] Voice 3: can you work on this with me then without us having to put it into a minor project

[2:25:34] Voice 3: I think we should just, as a starting point,

[2:25:37] Voice 3: you should just contact them and set up a Zoom meeting

[2:25:39] Voice 3: between the three of us.

[2:25:41] Voice 3: Or maybe I'll include Robert as well.

[2:25:43] Voice 3: We'll have a conversation.

[2:25:45] Voice 3: We'll just try to kind of convince them

[2:25:46] Voice 3: to get those entities into your pocket.

[2:25:50] Voice 3: And then you or a future LTC can figure out

[2:25:55] Voice 3: what changes you might need to make to your body laws

[2:25:59] Voice 3: to allow more flexibility around

[2:26:03] Voice 3: around affordable development, like what we're thinking is traditional affordable housing

[2:26:08] Voice 3: for the non-profits, which is how I think of it.

[2:26:12] Voice 3: With my other chap,

[2:26:14] Voice 2: one of my other chaps, they actually mapped the two people that are

[2:26:20] Voice 2: quite key, and I know that I've told them to Lee, I found them incredibly open and incredibly

[2:26:29] Voice 2: interested but keeping in mind that they didn't want this massive subdivision

[2:26:36] Voice 2: so i think that conversation of the two of you and them will really guide your decisions

[2:26:44] Voice 2: so

[2:26:46] Voice 12: we're not adjusting any meanings at this point any words we're just gonna approach see what we

[2:26:55] Voice 12: get out of it and then you

[2:26:57] Voice 10: guys have a lot of conversations

[2:27:01] Voice 10: it's

[2:27:01] Voice 8: a place they have to accept like the overarching goal of the trust in the trust

[2:27:11] Voice 8: policy statement as their guarantee because everything else could change

[2:27:16] Voice 8: so it's almost like you know the new trust policy statement

[2:27:20] Voice 8: and that is that is their world you know enclosure plus the fact that the saturn ocp has become on

[2:27:32] Voice 8: densities yeah and that the maximum number so those two things because everything else can

[2:27:40] Voice 8: change the definition of the xyz we can we can change those but the trust policy overarching

[2:27:48] Voice 8: watching votes 650 they

[2:27:57] Voice 12: do no they're very well correct they wouldn't consider transfer of

[2:28:00] Voice 12: destinies if we didn't have a cap they would extinguish them yeah you've

[2:28:04] Voice 10: got some important

[2:28:05] Voice 10: people to thank for that yeah yeah um

[2:28:08] Voice 13: okay so future projects for that i think so we don't

[2:28:12] Voice 13: change anything at this point right you just leave it be okay and that's smiling because

[2:28:18] Voice 13: of that so well one

[2:28:19] Voice 8: other one i'll just say quickly and we move on and we'll talk about

[2:28:23] Voice 8: it endlessly because we know very little that the uh the area where carefree court is built

[2:28:31] Voice 8: there is enough acreage there theoretically you can do eight um units in that acreage

[2:28:41] Voice 8: but it's zoned for ALR and there is a possibility, I opened the dialogue with Brad, that we could

[2:28:49] Voice 8: request that that be excluded.

[2:28:54] Voice 3: Yeah because

[2:28:57] Voice 8: we know a lot about how to do that now.

[2:29:01] Voice 8: So I was going to try and meet with the, I think it was Jeannie

[2:29:06] Voice 8: morgan and then you know figure out if we could actually so effectively remove that al or

[2:29:13] Voice 8: designation from the back end of that lot which would allow potentially for more units

[2:29:20] Voice 8: and yeah

[2:29:21] Voice 10: go ahead what about um unfortunately one of our favorites turn islanders has died

[2:29:27] Voice 10: uh jock is very lamentable to land there i would propose that it's far better reduced than that

[2:29:33] Voice 10: time incredibly beautiful keeping the plan with the creature that was behind the church

[2:29:40] Voice 10: so that part has already been very clear

[2:29:47] Voice 10: yeah i haven't

[2:29:51] Voice 8: i haven't even really looked i looked at the map

[2:29:54] Voice 8: I

[2:29:54] Voice 12: think that will be way better to engage in the day.

[2:30:00] Voice 12: as fred you know yeah that's a lot happens there and uh it's very time consuming as we know

[2:30:08] Voice 12: there's this law jock has already said he would be i mean he's going to sell it because i'm going

[2:30:13] Voice 12: to give it but that's where mechanisms of densities that other people buy like allow

[2:30:19] Voice 12: purchase and etc etc so okay i

[2:30:23] Voice 12: think that's for sure way

[2:30:25] Voice 10: better than robbing an acre of

[2:30:28] Voice 10: of Stanton Woods would be to already have a lot that's being cleared, jumped up and

[2:30:35] Voice 10: reused, and take apart something that's a

[2:30:40] Voice 13: long-standing one.

[2:30:42] Voice 13: Okay, so we'll move on to page 38, application report. Again, for your information, unless

[2:30:49] Voice 13: you have any questions. I don't have anything to highlight on that. Okay, so page 39, we

[2:30:58] Voice 13: trusting a local expense report for your information we have adopted policies and

[2:31:03] Voice 13: standard resolutions on page 41 to 45 for your information um we have uh page 46 we have an

[2:31:12] Voice 13: honest trust and servicing report of chair canada has been um coming into some of our meetings and

[2:31:20] Voice 13: giving a verbal report i know she's not here today i'll see if she can attend the october meeting

[2:31:25] Voice 13: She's really done an excellent job on that.

[2:31:31] Voice 13: So, I'm assuming you already read it, it's a very good report.

[2:31:34] Voice 13: Good, KMC for information, that's great.

[2:31:37] Voice 13: Thank you.

[2:31:38] Voice 13: So, we'll go over to page 50.

[2:31:42] Voice 13: New Business Role Matters on Saturna.

[2:31:46] Voice 13: Did we cover this?

[2:31:47] Voice 13: We kind

[2:31:48] Voice 8: of covered it, yeah.

[2:31:49] Voice 8: Yeah, I mean,

[2:31:50] Voice 8: I did get more information about the budget

[2:31:53] Voice 8: and how the budget is laid out, and I will digest that

[2:31:59] Voice 8: and at least bring it to the Southern Gulf Islands Forum

[2:32:03] Voice 8: and, you know, circulate it more widely.

[2:32:06] Voice 8: And I've, you know, said to Owen and Moti,

[2:32:11] Voice 8: because he said Nargis Bay Road,

[2:32:15] Voice 8: road and they are planning to put in a new um what do you call it adult um what do you call

[2:32:22] Voice 8: the under road drainage yeah um but do very basic work on the road it won't be like a cliffside

[2:32:31] Voice 8: which they did a tremendous project on um unless you know they're exploring the option to get some

[2:32:37] Voice 8: more funding so i did say you know if you need some support for that let us know so we just

[2:32:44] Voice 8: continue that dialogue but and i'll keep everybody informed once it's kind of digested a bit good

[2:32:50] Voice 8: absolutely and the mowing we'll deal with yeah

[2:32:53] Voice 13: okay so we'll move to 18.2 to turn around the

[2:32:57] Voice 13: ltc meeting procedures bylaw uh repeal bylaw number 144 plus page 54.

[2:33:11] Voice 13: so at least a lot of certain motions that we need to make

[2:33:16] Voice 13: did this all make sense to everybody because he's sort of um who've now gone into the universal

[2:33:26] Voice 13: Council.

[2:33:27] Voice 12: Yeah, that's just a pretty it's a, it was debated at

[2:33:31] Voice 12: Trust Council what this will be like, you know, what the policies

[2:33:36] Voice 12: and procedures will be and decided that it's a benefit that

[2:33:40] Voice 12: all local trust may use this basic set of procedures to

[2:33:44] Voice 12: govern their meetings with the minutes in the same format

[2:33:47] Voice 12: agenda is the same format and just administratively it just

[2:33:51] Voice 12: makes streamlines things for the whole operations that have

[2:33:54] Voice 12: having 13 different steps of meeting and they're very fine things about you know how long which we

[2:34:00] Voice 12: really or anyway how long you can speak at the public comment section and um and we still have

[2:34:06] Voice 12: the power as the local trust committee to vary from yeah exactly so so shall we just try to just

[2:34:14] Voice 12: make these motions on us in the chat no

[2:34:16] Voice 12: matter then we can get on to our exciting shirt not

[2:34:21] Voice 12: it there this morning of course um so let's turn and move this turn on island local trust committee

[2:34:27] Voice 12: get bylaw number one for four cited as certain island local trust committee meeting procedures

[2:34:33] Voice 12: repeal by law number one four four twenty twenty five first reading

[2:34:37] Voice 13: second trustee

[2:34:39] Voice 6: any further

[2:34:41] Voice 13: discussion it's called a question on the paper

[2:34:43] Voice 12: bacteria i'll move that just turn on local trust committee number one for four site is

[2:34:49] Voice 12: to turn on the local trust committee procedures repeal bylaw number four point two and five

[2:34:53] Voice 12: secondly secondly for the discussion questions all in favor carries uh with that this turn on

[2:35:00] Voice 12: local trust meeting and bylaw on the welcome floor side that is to turn island local trust

[2:35:04] Voice 12: committee meeting procedures repeal bylaw number one for four point two and five third reading

[2:35:09] Voice 12: second second for the discussion that carries and finally that this turn on the local trust

[2:35:15] Voice 12: committee bylaw number one before site as such an island trust committee meeting procedures repealed

[2:35:20] Voice 12: by law number one before 2025 to the alice trust excited community for the consideration of approval

[2:35:31] Voice 12: yes

[2:35:31] Voice 5: so that graph traditionally repeals bernard smith all

[2:36:21] Voice 13: right we're going back so don't worry

[2:36:22] Voice 13: so

[2:36:23] Voice 8: the public notification bylaw do you want to give a quick summary of what that is brad

[2:36:29] Voice 3: uh yeah so essentially it's just making changes to the current

[2:36:35] Voice 15: notification by law to

[2:36:37] Voice 15: uh reduce the need to more the main uh purpose

[2:36:42] Voice 3: is to reduce the need for us to publish

[2:36:45] Voice 3: uh statutory notifications for example it wants to turn on either if you need to do a public hearing

[2:36:52] Voice 3: you need to post notice right now when they assault spring uh newspaper because that's the

[2:36:58] Voice 3: the closest legal newspaper and service procedure allows those notifications to be

[2:37:06] Voice 3: done electronically and via our website instead of removing the significant cost

[2:37:12] Voice 3: of that. And often not that useful to be promoting public hearing or

[2:37:20] Voice 3: to turn in all the salt spring paper. So that's the gist of it.

[2:37:24] Voice 8: So it just is a kind of common sense update.

[2:37:27] Voice 8: It's

[2:37:28] Voice 3: a common sense update which will significantly reduce costs because I think that

[2:37:32] Voice 3: public hearing ads are like a thousand dollars or

[2:37:36] Voice 15: something ridiculous like that.

[2:37:38] Voice 13: There was a famous one in Gambia, it was 8,000. They've been doing bank for the problems.

[2:37:42] Voice 13: It's been

[2:37:43] Voice 3: at a sticking point for years and years and no one's

[2:37:45] Voice 3: looking at these things in these

[2:37:50] Voice 3: Yeah,

[2:37:52] Voice 2: not only the cost, but it would

[2:37:54] Voice 10: speed up the process.

[2:37:56] Voice 10: Yeah.

[2:37:58] Voice 10: Being a newspaper person.

[2:38:01] Voice 10: Which I am also.

[2:38:03] Voice 10: Well, there you go.

[2:38:04] Voice 10: John and I both use them for people.

[2:38:06] Voice 10: But look, John is actually a post on this.

[2:38:09] Voice 10: I understand the cost of it.

[2:38:12] Voice 10: we sell a fair number of

[2:38:14] Voice 10: different things at the store

[2:38:14] Voice 10: and to have people

[2:38:17] Voice 10: involved in that type of thing

[2:38:20] Voice 10: has value

[2:38:21] Voice 10: just to observe a lot of what's going on

[2:38:23] Voice 10: on different islands and to be reminded

[2:38:25] Voice 10: that they are part of our regional

[2:38:27] Voice 10: and I understand

[2:38:29] Voice 10: the thought that you're talking about

[2:38:31] Voice 10: and those type of things

[2:38:32] Voice 10: those decisions as you move more and more electronic

[2:38:35] Voice 10: is what kills

[2:38:37] Voice 10: meat eaters

[2:38:38] Voice 10: so be aware of that

[2:38:40] Voice 10: that if you're donating $1,000 probably per issue,

[2:38:44] Voice 10: given all of the islands and salt spring,

[2:38:47] Voice 10: that that makes a significant difference.

[2:38:49] Voice 10: Not that the survival of meat favorites

[2:38:53] Voice 10: is in any way a responsibility,

[2:38:55] Voice 10: but those meats are, while it seems so reasonable,

[2:38:58] Voice 10: it has an effect, a far-reaching effect.

[2:39:02] Voice 13: One more, we gotta keep moving.

[2:39:04] Voice 13: Have you been in the meat industry

[2:39:06] Voice 2: selling the appetizers?

[2:39:09] Voice 2: But let me tell you the facts of it.

[2:39:11] Voice 2: The facts of it is that the UK was so cold and soft in this area when they took political

[2:39:18] Voice 2: ads and put a surcharge on over an astronomical rate.

[2:39:24] Voice 2: It was a cash-out.

[2:39:26] Voice 2: And I am going to speak on it.

[2:39:28] Voice 12: I'm going to speak.

[2:39:29] Voice 8: Okay.

[2:39:31] Voice 12: So we, and of course, it opens the way for the screw-up to never see its full page.

[2:39:37] Voice 12: which kind of adds trust council notices,

[2:39:39] Voice 12: which I'm not sure what they publish

[2:39:41] Voice 12: or the things of that,

[2:39:43] Voice 12: but they are going to get them now.

[2:39:47] Voice 12: But I think this is like an overriding bylaw

[2:39:50] Voice 12: for

[2:39:51] Voice 5: those jurisdictions that have to have their areas,

[2:40:01] Voice 5: but it's the newspaper records.

[2:40:02] Voice 12: So

[2:40:03] Voice 4: respect

[2:40:04] Voice 12: what you're saying about the drug work for sure.

[2:40:09] Voice 12: But I think, you know,

[2:40:10] Voice 12: there's some at the end of the portion side effect for the group but i think that's solid

[2:40:15] Voice 12: significant issue that some of the other local trust areas were having with having to pay for

[2:40:19] Voice 12: ads and like their son etc so um okay do you want do you want to proceed you can

[2:40:26] Voice 8: have a drink to

[2:40:29] Voice 8: recover your okay from the last go around okay

[2:40:32] Voice 8: Okay. I move that the

[2:40:34] Voice 8: Caterina Island Local Trust Committee

[2:40:36] Voice 8: give bylaw number

[2:40:38] Voice 8: 145

[2:40:41] Voice 8: cited as

[2:40:42] Voice 8: Caterina Island Local

[2:40:44] Voice 8: Trust Committee public notification bylaw

[2:40:46] Voice 8: number 145, 2025

[2:40:47] Voice 8: first reading.

[2:40:50] Voice 8: Second.

[2:40:50] Voice 13: I second that.

[2:40:51] Voice 13: So discussion, call question, all in favor?

[2:40:53] Voice 13: That carries.

[2:40:54] Voice 8: I move that the Caterina Island Local

[2:40:57] Voice 8: Trust Committee give bylaw number 145

[2:40:59] Voice 8: cited as Caterina Island Local Trust

[2:41:01] Voice 8: committee public notification by 145 2025 second reading uh

[2:41:08] Voice 4: please one question okay

[2:41:11] Voice 4: i move

[2:41:13] Voice 8: that the saturn island local trust committee in bylaw 145

[2:41:17] Voice 8: cited as saturn island local trust committee public notification bylaw number 145 2025

[2:41:24] Voice 8: 25 third reading second

[2:41:26] Voice 4: question and finally

[2:41:29] Voice 8: i moved that the saturn island local trust committee

[2:41:34] Voice 8: with bylaw number 145 cited as saturn island global trust committee public notification by

[2:41:40] Voice 8: law number 145 25 to the islands trust executive committee for consideration of approval second

[2:41:49] Voice 12: Seconded.

[2:41:50] Voice 12: Seconded.

[2:41:51] Voice 12: Other questions?

[2:41:52] Voice 13: All in favour?

[2:41:52] Voice 13: All in favour.

[2:41:53] Voice 13: It's all in favour.

[2:41:54] Voice 13: I'm just seeing where we were and then realising we're moving right along here now, okay.

[2:41:59] Voice 13: So we had moved 18.4 to 18.5 and now 18.4 we've already dealt with, so now we're back

[2:42:07] Voice 13: to 18.5 I guess, which is 18.4, but in other words, Mr Dingman, you're on.

[2:42:14] Voice 13: it's the final law enforcement policy good afternoon

[2:42:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: chair trust committee

[2:42:23] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the uh the report that's before you regarding uh compliance and enforcement policy

[2:42:29] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: uh purpose of this board is to bring back the draft ltc bylaw compliance enforcement

[2:42:35] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: policy document for consideration by local trust committee along with advice on the feasibility of

[2:42:42] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: integrating some or all of the document into a bylaw in the end the recommendation for this

[2:42:49] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: report is that the salt spring island local trust committee adopt the proposed compliance

[2:42:53] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and enforcement policy that is on your agenda today the background for this report at an april

[2:43:03] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: meeting the ltc received the draft compliance and enforcement policy which does incorporate

[2:43:09] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: all current standing resolutions for compliant enforcement into a single

[2:43:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: document and establishes priorities for enforcement. The LTC at the time

[2:43:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: expressed overall satisfaction with the draft policy but requested staff to

[2:43:22] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: report back with advice on whether the document should be adopted as a

[2:43:25] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: standalone policy or integrated into a bylaw. The report lists the authority

[2:43:33] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that the LTC has to adopt bylaws and to provide regulations

[2:43:40] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: around inspecting private property under the Local Government Act.

[2:43:45] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Like other local trust committees, the Saturn LTC does have

[2:43:51] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: an infraction investigations bylaw, in this case, bylaw number 30,

[2:43:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: to authorize enforcement of bylaws and authorize bylaws

[2:43:58] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: to inspect properties at reasonable times.

[2:44:00] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: This bylaw, like the others, simply repeats language from the Local Government Act, which states that bylaw officers can, at reasonable times, inspect private property.

[2:44:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So, you have the overarching trust-wide policies within Policy 555 for compliance and enforcement.

[2:44:28] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: enforcement, and many local trust committees have already adopted specific policies by means of

[2:44:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: standing resolutions to provide specifics on how LTC bylaws are to be enforced, prioritized,

[2:44:41] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and reviewed within respective local trust areas. The current draft of Policy 555 specifically

[2:44:47] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: provides for adoption of LTC enforcement policies. These are not provisions that are

[2:44:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: specifically authorized to be included in bylaws by the Local Government Act,

[2:44:59] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: but are operational policies rather than regulations.

[2:45:05] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Your land use by-law also contains a section

[2:45:09] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that authorizes by-law officers to enter private property

[2:45:13] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: for inspection at any reasonable time

[2:45:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and after having given 24 hours notice

[2:45:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: prior notification to the occupier.

[2:45:24] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So that regulation within the land use by-law

[2:45:27] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: is not consistent with your by-law 30

[2:45:29] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: nor the proposed LTC enforcement policy, which would require a 30-days notice, with some exceptions.

[2:45:37] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Other honest-to-us land-use bylaws that contain a similar provision repeat the legislation authorizing at reasonable times.

[2:45:44] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Staff are recommending that when the opportunity to amend the land-use bylaw arises,

[2:45:49] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the 24-hours notice provision should be removed from the land-use bylaw.

[2:45:53] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: This would more clearly support the LTC using policy to establish what it considers reasonable times, notification periods, and what exceptions there should be to the notification period, and to revise the policy when warranted.

[2:46:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So the proposed LTC enforcement policy would address certain issues such as the notice of site inspections, deferred enforcement, time to comply, frivolous or vexatious complaints, which has not been present in other policies before, a definition of minor contraventions, and the use of discretion.

[2:46:32] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: progression. The LTC has determined that more notice of inspection is required in the context

[2:46:40] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: of Cerda Island and the proposed policy would establish a minimum of 30 days notice of

[2:46:46] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: inspection for almost all site inspections. There would be exceptions for short-term vacation

[2:46:51] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: rentals under certain criteria, health and safety issues, issued TUPs and were causing

[2:46:57] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: environmental damage. Those matters are either a priority or urgent depending on the circumstances

[2:47:03] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and a delay in a site inspection would jeopardize enforcement efforts or public policy.

[2:47:09] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: The policy would specify that where a contravention has been confirmed,

[2:47:13] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: in most circumstances, a respondent will be provided with a minimum of 90 days to comply

[2:47:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: before any firm enforcement action is commenced,

[2:47:22] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and that a bylaw officer may use discretion to consider up to one year to comply.

[2:47:26] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: The policy would also establish that enforcement files may be closed by the manager

[2:47:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: for minor structures with only one complaint,

[2:47:33] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: for circumstances where it's unreasonable for a respondent to comply

[2:47:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: or for frivolous, repeat, or vexatious complaints.

[2:47:41] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Opposed policy is an opportunity to ensure that those issues

[2:47:44] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: are addressed in an open and transparent manner

[2:47:46] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and to allow the local trust committee the opportunity

[2:47:49] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: to provide additional direction to staff on how to conduct bylaw enforcement.

[2:47:53] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And the further comments within the report,

[2:47:58] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: it states that LTE can give direction by one of two means,

[2:48:02] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: by bylaw or resolution. Some decisions must be made by bylaw. Other operational

[2:48:08] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: direction to staff is made by resolution including adopting policy documents such

[2:48:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: as an LTC enforcement policy. The report then lists the reasons why

[2:48:21] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: incorporating the policy into an amended infractions investigation bylaw or LUB

[2:48:27] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: SBB is not recommended for a number of reasons, including the bulk of the draft policy or

[2:48:35] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: operation procedures, including prioritization of investigations, timing of inspections,

[2:48:39] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: time to comply, closing of files, rather than regulations adopted by bylaw.

[2:48:46] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And it goes on to say bylaws in their nature are not discretionary policies, on the other

[2:48:51] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: hand, provide the means for an LTC to give direction to bylaw enforcement staff on how

[2:48:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: to exercise discretion. The policy includes provisions to not enforce certain activities

[2:49:08] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: based on limited resources. To adopt such provisions into a by-law would create a conflict

[2:49:14] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: with the by-law such as the LUB which establishes the infractions in the first place. Policies

[2:49:22] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: can be readily revised by resolution to reflect changed circumstances or where the LTC wishes

[2:49:26] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: is to revise its approach to a certain infraction.

[2:49:29] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Bylaws cannot be easily changed when circumstances change

[2:49:34] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: or require an amendment process, including readings,

[2:49:37] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: approval by executive committee, and adoption.

[2:49:41] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: From the perspectives of staff, procedures established in a policy

[2:49:45] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: are equally applicable as those established in a bylaw.

[2:49:50] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: The local governments throughout British Columbia have bylaw enforcement policy

[2:49:53] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: documents that provide direction to staff regarding how bylaw compliance

[2:49:57] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: compliance will be sought and how enforcement will be conducted so local trust committees have

[2:50:06] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: always been able to establish their policies and procedures by standing resolution the current

[2:50:14] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: steps that are underway one to review trust council policy 551 and also to have local

[2:50:24] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: trust committees adopt compliance and enforcement policies is an effort to make the process more

[2:50:29] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: efficient, open, and transparent, and to allow a better understanding of how by-law enforcement is

[2:50:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: conducted. Incorporating such policies wholesale into a by-law is not recommended and is likely

[2:50:42] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: not possible as many of the provisions are not regulations, but of an operational nature.

[2:50:48] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So you do have the recommendation to adopt the Curtin policy as drafted, and you also have the

[2:50:56] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: alternative uh options the alternatives here to make further revisions and then staff will report

[2:51:02] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: back or you may wish to proceed no further with this policy document and chair i can take any

[2:51:09] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: questions thank

[2:51:11] Voice 13: you very much mr dingman um trustees yeah

[2:51:16] Voice 12: i think thank you uh as i said

[2:51:21] Voice 12: previously i'm i'm very pleased with with the uh the policy and i think the policy applies here

[2:51:27] Voice 12: um very well i i am of the view that i would like to see a blended approach in terms of

[2:51:34] Voice 12: um bylaw reference to items in the policy while also the policy stands but i won't speak to that

[2:51:41] Voice 12: now i'll just open it up to uh my fellow christine uh just

[2:51:49] Voice 8: have a question so you said that from the

[2:51:52] Voice 8: perspective of and staff policy and vital are equal and have equal weight is that the word you

[2:52:04] Voice 8: used i can remember it's yeah equally

[2:52:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: applicable yeah

[2:52:09] Voice 8: from the perspectives of staff procedures

[2:52:11] Voice 8: established in policy are equally effective as those established in vital so i mean that speaks

[2:52:17] Voice 8: to the fact that you know when we started to dig around in the notice period we had vital

[2:52:23] Voice 8: or 30 and we had something in the phalanges phylo which was 24 hours and then you know

[2:52:29] Voice 8: we took a reasonable time and so if i am a public and i think i want to find out

[2:52:39] Voice 8: what the notice period is what is the period of the fly and and you know we know that we

[2:52:48] Voice 8: wanted to be 30 days where do i go what takes precedence over what how is this nested you know

[2:52:56] Voice 8: sequence of instructions going to be interpreted and where will the buck stop does that make sense

[2:53:05] Voice 10: that

[2:53:06] Voice 8: question yes

[2:53:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: it does chair so really the buck stops with the policy the policy is the direction

[2:53:11] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: to staff on here is what you will do you will give people a minimum 30 days notice unless there's

[2:53:17] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: otherwise some exception within the policy or they consent to an earlier inspection that's what

[2:53:24] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: staff are supposed to follow and

[2:53:27] Voice 8: does it say that in the policy that this policy supersedes

[2:53:32] Voice 8: the other directions i

[2:53:38] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: would say no it's not about superseding what the bylaw states but

[2:53:43] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Actually, within your land use bylaw, you don't need a reference, say, to when inspections can occur.

[2:53:51] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: It's covered actually by the Local Government Act.

[2:53:54] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And then each LTC will also adopt a bylaw like by 30, bylaw 30, which also say, okay, here's what the bylaw officer is authorized to do.

[2:54:05] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: but even with those adopted bylaws the LTC can make a policy even just by standing resolution

[2:54:13] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: say okay here's what staff are to do staff are to give

[2:54:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: 30 days and that's what staff are going

[2:54:21] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: to follow what

[2:54:23] Voice 8: I'm saying is that we don't need bylaw 30 or the equivalent because the policy

[2:54:29] Voice 8: will make it all clear or it doesn't need to be in bylaw 30 the 30-day notice

[2:54:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: no you

[2:54:37] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: don't need the bylaw and i might say i don't understand the actual intent of why it

[2:54:44] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: would be required within the bylaw the local trust committee can either have a just a simple

[2:54:50] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: standard resolution and say it's going to be 30 days or you can adopt this policy and say it's

[2:54:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: going to be 30 days and that's what staff are to follow and if staff don't follow that then

[2:55:02] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: then staff would need to be retrained, I guess,

[2:55:06] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: reprimanded if necessary, if they continue to not follow the policy.

[2:55:10] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: But that is what, that's what the bile officers do.

[2:55:14] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: We go by the policy. That's what we are required to do.

[2:55:21] Voice 3: Just to add to the chair, none of this policy contradicts the bile.

[2:55:27] Voice 3: Correct, Warren?

[2:55:29] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Correct.

[2:55:30] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: correct

[2:55:30] Voice 3: your

[2:55:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: policy

[2:55:32] Voice 3: is just meant to to make easier to communicate how your body laws are

[2:55:39] Voice 3: and legislation are meant to be and gives more meat i would assume uh to give more direction

[2:55:48] Voice 3: to the staff around some of the things that aren't actually captured in regulation is that fair to

[2:55:53] Voice 15: say

[2:55:54] Voice 3: yes

[2:55:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: to the chair that'd be correct to say it's a it's a policy and a procedures document

[2:55:59] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: this is the way staff are to go through their workday

[2:56:04] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and conduct business on Saturna.

[2:56:11] Voice 8: Yeah, I just find it all, I kind of get it,

[2:56:16] Voice 8: and then it sort of all slips away.

[2:56:19] Voice 8: But I don't remember 30.

[2:56:22] Voice 8: Do we need that any longer?

[2:56:26] Voice 8: Does that have a purpose?

[2:56:32] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So it probably does serve a purpose.

[2:56:34] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: It may serve the purpose of your appointing by-law officers.

[2:56:38] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: That may be its greatest purpose.

[2:56:42] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: The Saturn Island Local Trust Committee has by-law officers enforcing its by-law.

[2:56:48] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: That's my interpretation of those by-laws.

[2:56:51] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: That's what it does.

[2:56:53] Voice 8: And should or could that say that they will be directed by the policy that's been adopted by the Local Trust Committee?

[2:57:03] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: No, Chair, that doesn't need to be in a by-law.

[2:57:06] Voice 8: Okay.

[2:57:07] Voice 8: It

[2:57:08] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: doesn't need to be a regulation.

[2:57:10] Voice 8: Okay.

[2:57:11] Voice 8: All right.

[2:57:12] Voice 12: Okay.

[2:57:13] Voice 8: Okay.

[2:57:13] Voice 8: I don't have anything else to add.

[2:57:15] Voice 12: So in essence, I think so.

[2:57:18] Voice 12: The bylaws, the bylaw doesn't,

[2:57:21] Voice 12: because what the report recommends is to change the bylaw

[2:57:28] Voice 12: and presumably the member enabling bylaw to say bylaw offices

[2:57:36] Voice 12: may enter a property at any reasonable time.

[2:57:42] Voice 12: And the recommendation there to change that in the bylaws

[2:57:46] Voice 12: is to allow the policy to stay any period of time

[2:57:50] Voice 12: to actually define what is reasonable.

[2:57:54] Voice 12: I am not sure from a legal perspective

[2:57:58] Voice 12: that the wording in the policy would have the same standing

[2:58:02] Voice 12: as the wording in the bylaw.

[2:58:05] Voice 12: that's that's my um my this is that the bylaw grants in essence unfettered access

[2:58:12] Voice 12: and i'm not suggesting that the bylaws have won this i'm just saying that in the interpretation

[2:58:18] Voice 12: of the bylaw what you you're getting is unfettered access versus a guideline in the policy

[2:58:24] Voice 12: and we're all well-meaning individuals but what we want to do is we want to make sure

[2:58:29] Voice 12: that the law does not make an ass of any of us and we want to have um a very clear structure of bylaw

[2:58:37] Voice 12: built which then the policy is built on top of and so i don't see that there's an impediment

[2:58:47] Voice 12: to the efficient carrying out of the bylaw enforcement on saturn island if we were to not

[2:58:52] Voice 12: if we were to have a bylaw that said there's a 30-day requirement enabling bylaw would mirror

[2:58:58] Voice 12: that in state that's a 30-day requirement i go on about this because the ombudsman went on

[2:59:04] Voice 12: at great detail in their report about local government um enforcement of bylaws and talking

[2:59:11] Voice 12: about how the local government act there is this the key power is granted to um by law officials

[2:59:21] Voice 12: by what's called an enabling act every municipality has one every local trust area has one

[2:59:27] Voice 12: I can't think that this is some sort of accidental feature of the bylaws. I think it must be

[2:59:35] Voice 12: fundamental to the way in which the law is carried out. And to that end, I think that what we have

[2:59:44] Voice 12: discussed on Central Island is that we know education plays a large role in terms of how

[2:59:50] Voice 12: the bylaw officers do an excellent job in terms of informing people when there's an alleged

[2:59:56] Voice 12: infraction.

[3:00:00] Voice 12: And what I would propose is that we actually have a bylaw

[3:00:03] Voice 12: that states 30 days notice.

[3:00:05] Voice 12: We state that this may be varied by resolution of the LTC

[3:00:09] Voice 12: to allow for all the contingencies that Manager Dingwood has pointed out.

[3:00:14] Voice 12: And here's what's further.

[3:00:17] Voice 12: I'm going to state that this bylaw may not apply to individuals

[3:00:21] Voice 12: of First Nations ancestry who can prove a long-term attachment to this island

[3:00:27] Voice 12: because that gets at the essence of the fear of individuals on their ancestral territory

[3:00:33] Voice 12: about the idea of enforcement and there's no accident that trustee maberly from galileo island

[3:00:39] Voice 12: is here today because he has actually been very successful in having a policy that exempts

[3:00:46] Voice 12: ex-application it talks about and i'll talk about kind of how i would see that exemption apply

[3:00:53] Voice 12: because there's such a thing as nations have a land code

[3:00:55] Voice 12: that I would suggest would be applicable.

[3:00:58] Voice 12: And obviously it's somewhat of a moot point

[3:01:01] Voice 12: because we're talking about fee-simple land ownership

[3:01:05] Voice 12: by people of First Nations ancestry.

[3:01:08] Voice 12: But I think we'll ask, trust me,

[3:01:10] Voice 12: maybe if the chair is so willing to speak to the fact that,

[3:01:13] Voice 12: and you chair, no,

[3:01:14] Voice 12: because you passed this through the executive,

[3:01:16] Voice 12: this is a significant statement of reconciliation

[3:01:20] Voice 12: reconciliation to basically have an exemption or a different application of the bylaw even though

[3:01:27] Voice 12: it may be largely symbolic to Nations and how powerful and meaningful that has been to the

[3:01:32] Voice 12: Penelope Nation in the case of Galliano and how I think how powerful that would be if we were to do

[3:01:38] Voice 12: this here to the South Saco Nations um and so you know I'm willing to not make a motion this is new

[3:01:47] Voice 12: you information. I realize that this needs some perhaps quite a lot of consideration,

[3:01:52] Voice 12: but perhaps with your indulgence, Chair, we could ask Trustee Mabry to talk about the

[3:01:56] Voice 12: exemption on Galliano to, it's unrelated by all that relates to what he is.

[3:02:02] Voice 13: Most of it, yes, but first thing, Mr. Dingman, just let us end up. So we'll just deal with

[3:02:07] Voice 13: Mr. Dingman, then we'll come to Trustee Mabry.

[3:02:10] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So, Chair, I'll take this opportunity to pass on what I'll refer to as my summary of

[3:02:19] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the legal advice from your lawyers my opinion of their opinion and summary of their legal of our

[3:02:26] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: advice regarding entry under private property and inspections by bylaw officers um bylaw officers

[3:02:34] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: in bc can enter private property at any reasonable time as the states in the local government act

[3:02:41] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and the only legal jeopardy that they face is in regards to the evidence that they collect

[3:02:49] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So if the evidence that they collect is challenged in court, then a judge will determine, did the bylaw officer enter the property at reasonable times?

[3:02:59] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Did he follow policy set down by the local government?

[3:03:03] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And that's the only legal jeopardy that the bylaw officer is subject to when it comes to entering private property.

[3:03:11] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So,

[3:03:19] Voice 12: we may be in need of some sort of legal advice here. My reading of what the

[3:03:25] Voice 12: ombudsperson says is quite categorical in its statement that the Enabling Act is the vehicle

[3:03:35] Voice 12: by which a bylaw officer is permitted to enter private property and its stipulations

[3:03:40] Voice 12: we govern that entry.

[3:03:42] Voice 12: They're very clear on that.

[3:03:44] Voice 12: So I'm not sure that we have a difference of legal opinion

[3:03:49] Voice 12: or we need to receive additional education here

[3:03:54] Voice 12: in terms of how the local government dispenses its authority

[3:03:58] Voice 12: to local governments.

[3:04:01] Voice 12: But I think this is the essence of the matter

[3:04:05] Voice 12: when it comes to what the community desires here on Saterna in terms of how enforcement

[3:04:13] Voice 12: is, an alleged infraction is carried out. But we can park that. I mean, you know, I'm

[3:04:19] Voice 12: not saying Manager Damon is wrong. We perhaps both have, we're perhaps coming at this from

[3:04:25] Voice 12: two different sides, and that might be leading to some misinterpretation on my part. But

[3:04:30] Voice 12: how we proceed with that, we can take up in a minute. But perhaps we could hear about

[3:04:35] Voice 12: um the um first thing that i mentioned that um is i mean historical i think right but um you would

[3:04:43] Voice 12: probably be able to speak to it as well because you may release yeah

[3:04:48] Voice 13: thank you um

[3:04:49] Voice 3: so i might speak

[3:04:51] Voice 3: to um how you enforce the bylaws or your your you know what some of your business you're you're

[3:04:58] Voice 3: talking about the only thing i would speak to is is the exemption for first nations

[3:05:05] Voice 3: now being probably the exemption how it's worded um the reason we wanted to

[3:05:12] Voice 3: enter into this on galleon was to acknowledge that the canola trial um

[3:05:18] Voice 11: had

[3:05:19] Voice 3: been on galleon

[3:05:20] Voice 3: and for the last, since time immemorial, right?

[3:05:26] Voice 3: My, and I'll explain, my family is First Nations,

[3:05:30] Voice 3: Lloyd Baines is my father-in-law,

[3:05:32] Voice 3: my

[3:05:32] Voice 11: wife, Kathy Baines, and my children are First Nations.

[3:05:36] Voice 11: Lloyd has been, his DNA has been found in Galliano

[3:05:44] Voice 3: dating

[3:05:44] Voice 11: back 5,000 years.

[3:05:45] Voice 11: So that gives you some example of the timeframe

[3:05:47] Voice 11: of how

[3:05:48] Voice 3: long the Pinalia tribe have been on Galliano.

[3:05:51] Voice 3: And so, we introduced a bylaw, an exemption in the bylaw, to allow, to exempt First Nations peoples who were on their traditional territory from what would be recognized by the federal government and as being on their traditional territory.

[3:06:10] Voice 3: for it. The interesting thing was, in the bylaw that we're doing is, it didn't actually affect

[3:06:20] Voice 3: any parts of Longallion 11. And yet, the chief counsel for the delegate tries to

[3:06:26] Voice 3: clearly and passionately in favor of the exemption. And I think that the reason you sort

[3:06:34] Voice 11: it down to is if you look at when the OCP went any

[3:06:46] Voice 3: time during the age of the Islands Trust,

[3:06:49] Voice 3: I can't take you to the First Native People's Health. And so in that sort of

[3:06:57] Voice 3: view of reconciliation, which is quite frankly, if we look at the Islands Trust,

[3:07:04] Voice 3: the Trust Society and the Islands Trust Council, reconciliation is the number one overriding

[3:07:09] Voice 3: um priority for

[3:07:12] Voice 11: the audience um so in the spirit of that we felt that we were given an opportunity

[3:07:22] Voice 3: introduced by previous trustees we were given an

[3:07:26] Voice 11: opportunity to

[3:07:27] Voice 11: to take with them that advised us and put the exemption in um the exemption

[3:07:33] Voice 3: was passed

[3:07:34] Voice 3: has been managed by the executive committee and by the minister and um and so we're quite pleased

[3:07:43] Voice 3: that we were able to do something for the people they tried for their for their ancestors um even

[3:07:50] Voice 3: though it was as

[3:07:51] Voice 3: she got

[3:07:52] Voice 11: put a symbolic gesture but it was the first time ever that they had

[3:08:00] Voice 11: within our, within our OCP.

[3:08:04] Voice 3: And yeah, it's a pretty powerful moment for

[3:08:08] Voice 3: finale guitar. And, and so I was, I was interested. That's why I came today. I was interested

[3:08:15] Voice 3: because Leahy mentioned to me that they were looking at putting an

[3:08:17] Voice 11: exemption for First Nations.

[3:08:20] Voice 11: Now

[3:08:21] Voice 3: the, you know, there was a lot of back and forth in the community about this,

[3:08:25] Voice 3: but I think the one thing that sort of the, the misconception I think that some people have

[3:08:30] Voice 3: was that somehow this was an end of them to First Nations being able to do something that

[3:08:37] Voice 3: nobody else can do. And the reality is, first of all, I'm not sure what's the term,

[3:08:42] Voice 3: probably there's very few properties that I think would be considered to be feasible

[3:08:46] Voice 3: that are owned by First Nations. And secondly, even if white people or settlers were living

[3:08:54] Voice 3: on that First Nations land, the exception doesn't apply to them. So

[3:08:58] Voice 11: it only applies to those

[3:09:01] Voice 11: people. And I think that's why at the end of the day, it didn't work. You

[3:09:08] Voice 11: know, this wasn't an end

[3:09:11] Voice 11: run. This was a symbolic gesture to try and,

[3:09:18] Voice 3: well, I'm not going to say rights and wrongs,

[3:09:21] Voice 3: but to try and give them a vote of reconciliation. And I think it would be a powerful gesture for

[3:09:26] Voice 3: that sale excitement to hear that saturn island community is

[3:09:30] Voice 4: looking in that direction as well

[3:09:34] Voice 2: thank

[3:09:35] Voice 4: you can i have a question

[3:09:40] Voice 2: i'm going to just give you straight money yeah first nations land and uh feasible life

[3:09:48] Voice 2: yes and we have all the history of our stock if any if i'm living on a feasible life

[3:09:59] Voice 2: it by default. If you were living on that same lot, you wouldn't be like, well, personally,

[3:10:07] Voice 2: no, I wouldn't be affected. I'm

[3:10:08] Voice 11: not a first nation. I

[3:10:11] Voice 3: mean, I'm still covered in my laws

[3:10:18] Voice 3: that were formed in the early 70s during my island stress. I'm still covered by that.

[3:10:23] Voice 3: Right. The first nation, your mom or your

[3:10:26] Voice 2: dad, if they were living on that piece of the land, they would get that from the trust file.

[3:10:36] Voice 2: Yes.

[3:10:36] Voice 11: Well, from that particular file. You have to remember that it's an enforcement file.

[3:10:43] Voice 11: Well, this

[3:10:44] Voice 3: is an enforcement file. Ours isn't an enforcement file. Ours is a water sustainability project.

[3:10:50] Voice 3: Right.

[3:10:51] Voice 3: It just happened to be the first bylaw that was introduced as it was coming into effect.

[3:10:56] Voice 3: And so this is a part of a long, long process to get these exemptions into my version of

[3:11:03] Voice 3: the enforcement.

[3:11:03] Voice 3: Rather often, frankly, we're talking about water

[3:11:07] Voice 2: sustainability as it applies to First

[3:11:09] Voice 2: Nations.

[3:11:10] Voice 2: Right.

[3:11:10] Voice 3: But it was also then we'd be talking about bylaw enforcement as it pertains to First

[3:11:15] Voice 3: Nations as well.

[3:11:16] Voice 3: Because First Nations were governed traditionally by their land code.

[3:11:19] Voice 3: So if you've had that opportunity, and we have had that opportunity on Gallinan to sit

[3:11:26] Voice 3: out and go over that, but nation's plan codes are actually first-grader in regards to preservation

[3:11:34] Voice 3: than the honest trust is.

[3:11:36] Voice 2: How about behaviour?

[3:11:38] Voice 5: How about behaviour?

[3:11:40] Voice 2: In other words, running a business next door, all these goofy things that we keep running

[3:11:45] Voice 2: into.

[3:11:45] Voice 2: We had a long dissertation today about a piece of property that we drove,

[3:11:49] Voice 2: and that's going to be a business room.

[3:11:52] Voice 2: So, you know, our trust pilots try to deal with that kind of stuff.

[3:11:59] Voice 2: In the case of a First Nations family living on that fee-simple land,

[3:12:05] Voice 2: whether it be rural or whatever, they would only be covering the First Nations.

[3:12:11] Voice 2: Not necessarily.

[3:12:13] Voice 3: Sarah, I mean, you have to remember, like, the right centers that First Nations people have under the Charter are only certain rights.

[3:12:22] Voice 3: It's not carte blanche, right?

[3:12:24] Voice 3: You know, the right to harvest, the right to make a, what do they call it, a meter living, I think that's the way to refer to it.

[3:12:33] Voice 3: So it's not like First Nations can sell you an industrial complex, you know, or anything like that.

[3:12:40] Voice 3: I mean, the rights are actually fairly clear.

[3:12:43] Voice 3: And the reality is when you sit down with First Nations and you start to look at their land posts and start to look at how they want the land to be governed, we could sometimes use that model to our benefit.

[3:13:00] Voice 3: Right.

[3:13:01] Voice 3: So it's

[3:13:03] Voice 11: been an interesting exercise.

[3:13:04] Voice 11: I mean, you know, I think we're, this is just the beginning of a path of engagement, right?

[3:13:15] Voice 11: so it's just an interactive procedure that was it was made

[3:13:24] Voice 8: to see just i mean i had no no preconceived ideas about this but so for instance if we

[3:13:38] Voice 8: made an exemption within the bylaw enforcement policy we're effectively making your exemption for

[3:13:47] Voice 8: the whole lb are we or not because we're saying it will not enforce but the only things we enforce

[3:13:54] Voice 8: force or the land use bylaw. So we're

[3:13:58] Voice 8: basically, you did one on one particular aspect

[3:14:02] Voice 8: which was maybe an update to the OCP or was it a separate

[3:14:06] Voice 8: standalone thing? It's a standalone but

[3:14:09] Voice 11: it's

[3:14:10] Voice 11: part of the OCP.

[3:14:11] Voice 8: Yeah, but ours is more a kind of blanket

[3:14:13] Voice 8: statement because it's about enforcement, isn't it?

[3:14:18] Voice 8: And the enforcement is of our entire NUB.

[3:14:23] Voice 8: Right, but it's,

[3:14:25] Voice 4: I mean, it's the trust set that develops the policies, develops the STDs,

[3:14:33] Voice 4: so yeah,

[3:14:36] Voice 12: I mean, it's sort of

[3:14:41] Voice 11: the next step up from what we did, but

[3:14:43] Voice 11: I wouldn't say it's

[3:14:44] Voice 11: a blanket exception, it's not,

[3:14:46] Voice 4: we've never been able to find a scenario where that would

[3:14:50] Voice 4: be a better one.

[3:14:51] Voice 4: And

[3:14:51] Voice 8: what sort of, did you have discussions about, so, you know, say, according to their

[3:15:04] Voice 8: land code, and then that land changed hands to somebody who wasn't prestigious, how would

[3:15:11] Voice 8: that, how would people envisage that that would happen?

[3:15:14] Voice 8: Well, it would

[3:15:15] Voice 4: automatically come under their jurisdiction when they call the trustees.

[3:15:18] Voice 4: Okay.

[3:15:19] Voice 12: And I think, Charis, the idea is we, this is somewhat early days, but I thought I'd

[3:15:25] Voice 12: better bring it out now so it's not you know blind signs down down the road but you you would

[3:15:31] Voice 12: link the enforcement somehow to basically an engagement with that nation's land code

[3:15:36] Voice 12: because the land code is very very clear in terms of um uh what their vision is for for the trustee

[3:15:45] Voice 12: right in terms of the land code their land code i have not read the statements but i imagine it

[3:15:51] Voice 12: would be similar. And so I think obviously a step would be actually talking to the nations

[3:15:57] Voice 12: to make sure that we are acting in a way that would be of

[3:16:03] Voice 12: benefit or significant, shall we say, even if one is involved.

[3:16:07] Voice 10: Yeah.

[3:16:08] Voice 12: Yeah.

[3:16:10] Voice 3: So first off, absolutely you need to talk to the nations.

[3:16:14] Voice 3: would be almost disrespectful to not talk to the nations. But yeah, it's early days on thinking

[3:16:25] Voice 3: how these things would play out. What we're doing now on Galliano is a step two, is we are actually

[3:16:33] Voice 3: revisiting our OCP. We're going to do an OCP review and we are going to sit down with Galliano

[3:16:40] Voice 3: into that discussion around ROCP so that all the land in Galliano could be seen as being

[3:16:48] Voice 3: governed by almost two coals, right?

[3:16:52] Voice 3: We're running into a couple of rezonings right now where the owners of those lands are donating

[3:16:59] Voice 3: the evidence particles back to the Penelope tribe, so they will own the simple land at

[3:17:05] Voice 3: that point on Galliano.

[3:17:06] Voice 3: So

[3:17:07] Voice 8: that must be like a vote of confidence really in the land code but give me an example of the

[3:17:13] Voice 8: land code like something that's similar or something that's different just to make it

[3:17:18] Voice 8: real to me.

[3:17:19] Voice 3: Yeah I think what you'll notice maybe

[3:17:22] Voice 4: both of the land code is the untouched

[3:17:31] Voice 11: land is there for harvesting

[3:17:35] Voice 3: in essence that's the basic of the land to First Nations or artists

[3:17:41] Voice 3: And so keeping it as pristine as possible is important.

[3:17:50] Voice 3: The problem all First Nations ran into, or of course early on,

[3:17:54] Voice 3: is it wasn't until I believe the second year of my term

[3:17:58] Voice 3: that the BC government allowed First Nations to own

[3:18:03] Voice 3: a piece of the land.

[3:18:05] Voice 3: We weren't able to give the land to the Manila tribe

[3:18:07] Voice 3: until a couple of years ago because they weren't allowed

[3:18:10] Voice 3: to own a piece of the land, which is a standard when you think about it in BC, that at first

[3:18:16] Voice 3: stage, like now that it's tried, it does not allow to own a piece of the land, and so,

[3:18:24] Voice 11: you know, I think it really, I think the thing you have to do is sit down with

[3:18:30] Voice 3: a sales second

[3:18:31] Voice 3: and just have that conversation about what they want to see on their end, their ancestral

[3:18:39] Voice 3: Because if you look at Sperm Island, there's a massive amount of parks and protected land on this island.

[3:18:46] Voice 3: The reality is,

[3:18:48] Voice 11: most personages would consider that their gathering lands.

[3:18:57] Voice 13: So, it sounds to me that they were not going to adopt what's

[3:19:04] Voice 12: said about before.

[3:19:05] Voice 12: I think

[3:19:07] Voice 12: additional clarity in terms of what

[3:19:09] Voice 12: is the purpose of the enablement

[3:19:11] Voice 12: why is it when does it exist

[3:19:13] Voice 12: in the local government

[3:19:15] Voice 12: however

[3:19:17] Voice 12: it may be

[3:19:19] Voice 12: censoring that and then

[3:19:21] Voice 12: secondly obviously negotiation

[3:19:23] Voice 12: or not negotiation but

[3:19:24] Voice 12: a dialogue

[3:19:27] Voice 12: a beginning dialogue

[3:19:28] Voice 12: with affected nations

[3:19:31] Voice 12: the policy

[3:19:33] Voice 12: see as it stands is good i think it's good work i appreciate the work of staff how exactly we

[3:19:40] Voice 12: enacted i think we may have a difference but that's for us to work through and um and so

[3:19:47] Voice 12: you know i'm happy

[3:19:48] Voice 4: that this will be a process open

[3:19:56] Voice 4: to any any thoughts on

[3:20:00] Voice 4: well mr halliday might have some thoughts here so

[3:20:07] Voice 3: I have a comment as an observer, and I want to make the point as seriously as I can, is

[3:20:16] Voice 3: that I sense LTC is possibly embarking on a very slippery slope, which confuses the

[3:20:26] Voice 3: purpose and the function and rolling out the policy versus

[3:20:33] Voice 11: by the law. And this would be,

[3:20:36] Voice 11: I think, the first time, the first instance in which LCC, the Saturn LCC, would begin to treat

[3:20:42] Voice 11: those with a kind of parity. And

[3:20:45] Voice 3: I think

[3:20:47] Voice 11: in terms of keeping

[3:20:48] Voice 3: the trust of the public, I would just

[3:20:54] Voice 11: caution, strong development of concerns, trying to, in a sense, move to policy, notwithstanding

[3:21:04] Voice 11: what is currently in bylaw. I know it's more work, it's more cumbersome. There's all kinds

[3:21:12] Voice 11: of very, very good encoding reasons for saying it's more inefficient. But at the same time,

[3:21:19] Voice 11: There's a long history around bylaws, and there are shorter and much more opaque history

[3:21:28] Voice 11: around policy, and the trying ways of policy to work is a sort of a bylaw function, but

[3:21:38] Voice 11: I really think you're opening up a can of worms, and in

[3:21:41] Voice 11: some sense, raising the trust

[3:21:42] Voice 11: in public we we

[3:21:44] Voice 5: we

[3:21:45] Voice 3: lived in bylaws there's a long tradition of something the bylaw says

[3:21:50] Voice 3: we're now in we're

[3:21:51] Voice 11: now contemplating action which says for the bylaw said

[3:21:56] Voice 11: but we haven't read the policy and that's that's even i

[3:22:07] Voice 10: won't and i've been most wedded to the

[3:22:11] Voice 10: land response that we created for ourselves we have many living people who did work to it

[3:22:18] Voice 10: I am, I comprehend the efficiency of seeing the newspaper, telling, broadcasting what is in the works. I get that.

[3:22:43] Voice 10: I am, I like to see close regionalism. We are a small community. We are the opposite of Salt Spring.

[3:22:52] Voice 10: And I do keep the trust in the people who are here.

[3:22:59] Voice 10: I think Rob brought up a very good point that there's no susceptibility.

[3:23:03] Voice 10: But it's very important to me that those people that have elected right here, right on the ground,

[3:23:12] Voice 10: that we also have a deep feel and commitment to their community,

[3:23:17] Voice 10: are the ones that make sometimes the place where enforcement hits the road.

[3:23:26] Voice 10: That reflects the values and what most Turner Islanders would agree is a reasonable and thoughtful

[3:23:38] Voice 10: adjudication between these are regulations and this is what's happening.

[3:23:43] Voice 10: So on our side, I would never like to see the need for flaunting bylaws or not participating,

[3:23:52] Voice 10: not having sympathy for what might be there.

[3:23:54] Voice 10: But on the other side, we don't want to be proficient in, and that's not even a word,

[3:24:00] Voice 10: but I just want to be part of a mix that's made for a much broader, broader communities.

[3:24:06] Voice 10: so it's important to me that there be adequate time for people to be notified of things that reflect what we have traditionally done and what we have respected on this island.

[3:24:21] Voice 10: Because two reasons. I think that there's broader buy-in if people feel they are also listened to for what their life situations may reflect.

[3:24:32] Voice 10: reflect and I think that's important and I think it's important what the capability this community

[3:24:40] Voice 10: is able to do. So for many people who buy these simple houses here, finishing their lot in a year

[3:24:50] Voice 10: as one of the regulations is really difficult to do. Most of us did stage things as we had kids

[3:24:57] Voice 10: and government together so i would i would like that local oversight is critical to me and that's

[3:25:05] Voice 10: what ben is talking about that is um i just never saw that i thought that so that's very

[3:25:13] Voice 10: i'm sure that galliano so this is a whole different thing i'm sure that galliano has

[3:25:18] Voice 10: had a lot of discussion and lots of internet experience with what what's happening and that's

[3:25:30] Voice 10: So I think your island, this is part of what makes the island so different, you know, with

[3:25:37] Voice 10: Baldy being right there and Malibu to a point, a presence on Galliano, I'm sure that that

[3:25:46] Voice 10: difference turn it hasn't my experience felt that presence we had um from seattle we had

[3:25:55] Voice 10: several people down here for a while but it wasn't enough we had much experience or even thought

[3:26:01] Voice 10: of how that might play out legally or invest for our investment so thank you for bringing that

[3:26:14] Voice 3: I think it's important for me to point out, Galleon is the largest contingent of First Nations peoples

[3:26:21] Voice 3: typically living on an island, including Salisbury, in the trust area, and so it has a very active First Nations community.

[3:26:33] Voice 3: But the fellow that attended our first trust meeting since I was elected

[3:26:42] Voice 3: And so it's a long process. And it's a process where there's a lot of dialogue and just sort of everybody getting comfortable with sitting down with each other and having a conversation.

[3:26:57] Voice 10: So that is to my direction. Thank you, Mr. Damien. I met you in Russell Island. I appreciate very much the work you do.

[3:27:10] Voice 10: and I see that in fact today's Russell Island is a whole different entity to itself and I thought

[3:27:17] Voice 10: you explained yourself very well so just to be clear my point is that as local as possible

[3:27:24] Voice 10: in order to keep the respective people that live here and our actual living situation

[3:27:31] Voice 10: which are violently represented is what I think is important.

[3:27:37] Voice 2: Thank you.

[3:27:39] Voice 2: I'm sorry to make one

[3:27:41] Voice 4: comment,

[3:27:42] Voice 2: but I'm jealous of your time.

[3:27:44] Voice 2: I really am because I wish we had First Nations presence on here,

[3:27:51] Voice 2: growing up with any community there, growing up together.

[3:27:56] Voice 2: That's what we would reconcile.

[3:28:01] Voice 2: I have actually talked, to say what, about IR7 and all boats and people coming on, we love to have an operating room, but we're not there yet, so I'm challenging them.

[3:28:22] Voice 13: Okay, so we need to have staff going, okay, what are we doing, how are we doing it, or

[3:28:29] Voice 13: are we doing it so trustee thinks in direction?

[3:28:32] Voice 13: Yes, so with

[3:28:33] Voice 12: the second one, in actuality, this may be not the right bylaw to proceed

[3:28:41] Voice 12: or maybe, but it's certainly the right bylaw to open the conversation with the nations,

[3:28:46] Voice 12: I think.

[3:28:46] Voice 12: So that would be obviously something that Marietta and I and the sub-chair to do.

[3:28:53] Voice 12: As far as the work on the policy and how it may or may not interact with the bylaw,

[3:29:01] Voice 12: we could pause that until further notice,

[3:29:04] Voice 12: or we could see my specific questions about what was the actual legal purpose

[3:29:12] Voice 12: of the Enabling Act under the Local Government Act of,

[3:29:18] Voice 12: why does the Local Government Act

[3:29:19] Voice 12: so strongly specify the Enabling Act

[3:29:23] Voice 12: for each jurisdictional body?

[3:29:26] Voice 12: It cannot be accidental.

[3:29:30] Voice 12: And how we, I'm willing to defer to the staff

[3:29:35] Voice 12: on sort of what the answer to that might be.

[3:29:39] Voice 12: And then we can sort of pick up that time,

[3:29:41] Voice 12: i guess it's sort of the minimum we could do at this point so i

[3:29:46] Voice 13: think that mr dingham's hands up

[3:29:47] Voice 13: so it sounds like you want to work with mr dingham offline

[3:29:56] Voice 13: to sort of clarify this point i think he and i have perhaps

[3:30:00] Voice 12: free opinion of the law on the matter so i don't want to because i i could be wrong it would just

[3:30:07] Voice 12: be basically getting a broader insight into why why the vital enforcement of the local government

[3:30:14] Voice 12: level is structured in the way it is and how we can basically build on that to meet the needs of

[3:30:20] Voice 12: community but not in any way of course obstruct that's not our job here at all we make the job

[3:30:26] Voice 12: of enforcement as effective and as efficient and as you know private education in many ways as

[3:30:31] Voice 12: as it can be so why do we share the same goals it's just um i think mr allen pointed out i'm

[3:30:38] Voice 12: still a little leery of the sense of policy carrying all that weight

[3:30:42] Voice 12: so mr bennett any comments here uh

[3:30:45] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: what i can provide chair is reference to local government act

[3:30:49] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: to section 419 which states if a board has authority to regulate prohibit and impose

[3:30:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: or requirements in relation to a matter,

[3:30:57] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the board may, by bylaw, authorize officers,

[3:31:00] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: employees, and agents of the regional district

[3:31:02] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: to enter at all reasonable times

[3:31:04] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: on any property to inspect and determine

[3:31:06] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: whether all regulations, prohibitions,

[3:31:08] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: or requirements are being met.

[3:31:10] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So I guess what clarification is required is,

[3:31:13] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: does board refer to a local trust committee

[3:31:17] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: or does it refer to trust council?

[3:31:22] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And within that section,

[3:31:24] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and it just references at all reasonable times it doesn't say that a specific time period as in 24

[3:31:32] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: hours or 30 days is required to be set out within a bylaw what chair i'm sorry trustee lee is

[3:31:42] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: sorry trustee middleton has referred to as an enabling bylaw so that's that's the section from

[3:31:51] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: from the Local Government Act that would apply.

[3:31:53] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: That's, I think

[3:31:54] Voice 12: that's the crux of it.

[3:31:55] Voice 12: I think Manjadeem is exactly right.

[3:31:57] Voice 12: That's, that, where does this authority stem from

[3:32:03] Voice 12: and in what nature is it factored or unfactored

[3:32:06] Voice 12: as it goes down to the local trust committee?

[3:32:11] Voice 12: Because I'm not a lawyer and I'm just going by

[3:32:14] Voice 12: what I understood from the office person's report.

[3:32:17] Voice 12: I don't want to get into that because,

[3:32:26] Voice 12: I guess that's about the end.

[3:32:28] Voice 12: I have an interpretation of it.

[3:32:30] Voice 12: I didn't do well.

[3:32:33] Voice 12: But I do think the interpretation is important

[3:32:36] Voice 12: because I think it's the essence of the derived authority.

[3:32:41] Voice 12: So I think we do need to be clear on that.

[3:32:44] Voice 12: I appreciate the manager's tolerance

[3:32:47] Voice 12: in kind of following us down this pathway.

[3:32:50] Voice 12: In the philosophical and foundational perspective,

[3:32:58] Voice 12: it is important work.

[3:33:00] Voice 4: Okay.

[3:33:02] Voice 12: So, yeah.

[3:33:04] Voice 13: Thank you. So the boss is before us. The LTC is not prepared to call on that.

[3:33:15] Voice 12: I would say no. I think it's good. I think you're on the 99.9% of the way there. I think staff have done a great job of capturing our intent and they've got it exactly. It's just this authority, the genesis of authority, I am finding to be important.

[3:33:32] Voice 12: and i'm happy to work with van den beekman directly if that's your suggestion chair or

[3:33:36] Voice 12: if he's certainly student

[3:33:37] Voice 3: chair the genesis of authority for local government i think that's

[3:33:41] Voice 3: where the authorization is where it speaks to that the board can uh impose requirements in

[3:33:50] Voice 3: relation to a matter of bylaw authorized officers agents of all regional districts

[3:33:55] Voice 3: and this is warren's point at all reasonable times so the provincial legislation speaks to

[3:34:01] Voice 3: all reasonable times. I think what the policy is trying to do is to shape what a reasonable

[3:34:07] Voice 3: time means in terms of you as trustees, how you define a reasonable time. So the policy

[3:34:16] Voice 3: is meant to reflect the enabling legislation and whatever bylaws fall beneath that, they

[3:34:23] Voice 3: all have to be consistent with. So you couldn't impose a bylaw that differs from the legislation

[3:34:31] Voice 3: And you can't impose a policy where you can't carry out a policy that is contrary to the

[3:34:45] Voice 3: legislation.

[3:34:46] Voice 3: So I think that what Warren is trying to get to with this policy is to

[3:35:02] Voice 3: give some shape to that reasonable time i don't see it as being contrary to the legislation i

[3:35:07] Voice 3: don't see the concern that you have personally i

[3:35:10] Voice 12: i would put forward that all reasonable time

[3:35:14] Voice 12: has a completely different meaning than 30 days under the law but

[3:35:17] Voice 15: the legislation says that the

[3:35:19] Voice 15: highest level of legislation says that all reasonable times and so you are then defining

[3:35:25] Voice 15: 30 days as a reasonable time period, but the legislation does not define whether a reasonable

[3:35:32] Voice 15: time, it leaves to

[3:35:34] Voice 3: the local government authority to define what that reasonable time is, and

[3:35:38] Voice 3: a court process would determine if that time was reasonable or not.

[3:35:42] Voice 3: And

[3:35:42] Voice 12: that's what we're seeking to do here as the local authorities, to find that reasonable

[3:35:46] Voice 12: time, and I'm saying it's 30 days.

[3:35:49] Voice 12: But you can

[3:35:50] Voice 8: register as a public speaker.

[3:35:51] Voice 12: So,

[3:35:52] Voice 8: yeah, at the regional planning committee, Warren, and the Ombudsman's comment on the policy, 5.5 point whatever, they want to put the 90 days in there, which is a similar issue, the fact that a waitable time.

[3:36:28] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Oh, if you

[3:36:28] Voice 8: can hear me, partner.

[3:36:30] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Yeah.

[3:36:31] Voice 8: yeah uh

[3:36:32] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the the signal is cutting out so i'm not getting all the conversation or comment

[3:36:39] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: okay well

[3:36:40] Voice 13: okay mr allen what do you have to say given

[3:36:45] Voice 11: the additional information that has now

[3:36:47] Voice 11: come forward i need to withdraw my concern there appears to be a superior piece of legislation

[3:36:52] Voice 11: legislation which empowers the LTC to proceed with policy and and I my

[3:37:02] Voice 3: apology for having

[3:37:03] Voice 3: thought of the waters but

[3:37:06] Voice 11: I think my concern has been addressed we

[3:37:08] Voice 8: haven't counted the waters

[3:37:09] Voice 8: ourselves quite as satisfying to

[3:37:11] Voice 13: me but I think what we're landing is that the legislation says

[3:37:21] Voice 13: What we're doing locally is we're defining what the reasonable time

[3:37:25] Voice 12: is, and we are given

[3:37:26] Voice 12: that authority by the legislation you refer to.

[3:37:29] Voice 12: So I don't think you should withdraw your objection, because I think your objection

[3:37:33] Voice 12: is bang on the money.

[3:37:34] Voice 12: But that's my advice to you.

[3:37:39] Voice 13: So, it's just what I'm trying to draw the speed to, but it's a deviation from what we're looking at, what's the suggested policy from what the needs of the eternal abode are in Europe.

[3:38:04] Voice 13: because they're going to want to come back with something if we're saying we don't like this.

[3:38:12] Voice 12: So I guess what we could do is I could move the two suggested bylaw warnings and then say rather

[3:38:18] Voice 12: than put it to vote and ask for comment on the implementation of these two bylaws, yay and nay.

[3:38:30] Voice 13: so the resolution would be um you suggest staff review blah blah blah and come back well

[3:38:39] Voice 12: i mean

[3:38:40] Voice 12: if i had my brothers but just wait there i would we would just uh suspend obviously the in some

[3:38:47] Voice 12: ways we need to take some time to to engage with the first nations if we're to do so it means the

[3:38:52] Voice 12: way that it's not kind of done neil and even if this doesn't prove to be the right bylaw to move

[3:38:57] Voice 12: that kind of symbolic sense forward. So in some ways I think I'd be happy to just sort of at this

[3:39:07] Voice 12: time park it and engage with relevant First Nations and then once we have some information or

[3:39:16] Voice 12: or insight knowledge is returned to basically the policy

[3:39:25] Voice 12: and the vitalism and how they interact.

[3:39:28] Voice 12: Okay, so how do you envision that

[3:39:30] Voice 13: engagement taking place?

[3:39:32] Voice 13: Is that through the LTC?

[3:39:34] Voice 13: Is that through individuals or through the LTC?

[3:39:38] Voice 13: I've said that.

[3:39:46] Voice 12: It's presumptuous to think that with the LTC.

[3:39:50] Voice 12: see it's going to it's going to need um perhaps a plan of engagement which we can um um perhaps

[3:39:59] Voice 12: tasks separate about me at the next meeting i'll do it now and then the interim um so we're going

[3:40:07] Voice 13: to do a positive effect at this point yeah bring this back at the next meeting yeah and figure and

[3:40:16] Voice 13: and so between now and then you can discuss with the forest manager

[3:40:24] Voice 12: unless the public is considering here to say let's show some motion on this but we we can't

[3:40:30] Voice 12: do that with first agency engagement that i think coaching so but we also have to understand how the

[3:40:36] Voice 13: mechanism is going to take place because i think you need to have a conversation probably with

[3:40:41] Voice 13: director freighter and joe elliott to understand the appropriate protocols and to engage these

[3:40:48] Voice 12: conversations yeah there's um that that could well be so i'm just wondering we sure emotions

[3:40:57] Voice 12: don't really work at this point yeah we should make a proposal on the lender's final policy at

[3:41:04] Voice 12: this point but i've seen what i'm in it waiting for for to the next immediate cycle that's like

[3:41:09] Voice 12: in October.

[3:41:11] Voice 12: We have standing resolutions that function currently.

[3:41:15] Voice 12: So I think that I'm OK with that.

[3:41:20] Voice 12: Just a moment.

[3:41:22] Voice 8: So you're proposing that we pause for two things.

[3:41:27] Voice 8: One is information on the role of the policy

[3:41:32] Voice 8: versus how to prevent things.

[3:41:43] Voice 12: So I'll be above, and then if what we can do

[3:41:45] Voice 12: is come back with very more precise questions at the next meeting for stuff to to act on rather

[3:41:52] Voice 12: than absolutely what kind of general concerns which are not easy to act on given the specificity

[3:41:58] Voice 12: of what's been proposed um and so that gives us a chance to work on those for the next meeting

[3:42:07] Voice 12: The

[3:42:08] Voice 8: second thing is to explore the option to put in an exemption for First Nations holding

[3:42:19] Voice 8: fees for land.

[3:42:21] Voice 4: Correct.

[3:42:22] Voice 8: Okay.

[3:42:23] Voice 8: Not

[3:42:26] Voice 4: be better to engage with the community first.

[3:42:31] Voice 12: What we would need to know, I think, ideally is, is there any interest, I think, and this

[3:42:37] Voice 12: might not be the right i mean that's probably very interesting maybe just in terms of that

[3:42:41] Voice 12: you know so when i want to be saying hey here's what we've come up with isn't that nice you know

[3:42:48] Voice 12: it's got to be engagement has to be feeling the situation out shall we say first

[3:42:59] Voice 10: respond this is such a new idea a new way is not the whole thing of reconciliation but linking into

[3:43:12] Voice 10: the trust and linking it to specific bylaws i'm i i

[3:43:22] Voice 5: don't think people are

[3:43:40] Voice 10: there's other if the community decides to go that way i i i just sent it there that puts a time push

[3:43:50] Voice 10: on it and a and it gives it a heading which is not really what you want i think you would want to

[3:43:58] Voice 10: bring a long conversation and um i i i hesitate to say new idea it's not a new idea but connecting

[3:44:09] Voice 10: connecting it with the trust is certainly something that would people go, whoa,

[3:44:13] Voice 10: and we don't wonder what, you know, how would we look at this?

[3:44:18] Voice 10: It all seems so organically, you know,

[3:44:20] Voice 10: if you were going to work with Sylvia or something like that,

[3:44:24] Voice 10: and they're going to have discussions later in the fall,

[3:44:26] Voice 10: it seems like a good way to bring that in.

[3:44:29] Voice 10: Not to, so I see a separation in the two,

[3:44:35] Voice 10: and certainly I don't want to move you to go, what?

[3:44:37] Voice 10: Wow, that's an interesting idea.

[3:44:42] Voice 13: Okay, quickly, your idea.

[3:44:43] Voice 8: My idea first, which is, you're right, what about step one,

[3:44:48] Voice 8: let's all find out what the land code is.

[3:44:53] Voice 8: Like we could say this happened down in Galliano.

[3:44:57] Voice 8: They seem to be content with this.

[3:44:59] Voice 8: They have a very long conversation while we find out what the land code is

[3:45:05] Voice 8: this board of First Nations on Sojourner.

[3:45:08] Voice 8: Full stop.

[3:45:10] Voice 8: Give it the honour of the service.

[3:45:12] Voice 8: Yeah.

[3:45:13] Voice 8: Would that, what do you think of that, Ben?

[3:45:17] Voice 11: I think there's,

[3:45:21] Voice 3: you cannot watch it in two pieces.

[3:45:24] Voice 3: You're absolutely right.

[3:45:25] Voice 3: This has to be a conversation.

[3:45:28] Voice 3: First of all, you start with First Nations

[3:45:30] Voice 3: and then you start with the community.

[3:45:31] Voice 3: and I know some of these have to sort of work their way through,

[3:45:36] Voice 3: but what we found was helpful is we started

[3:45:43] Voice 11: to get staff to make the, you know,

[3:45:45] Voice 11: staff to staff with the nations to have formal meetings

[3:45:51] Voice 3: with the nation as the elected trustees.

[3:45:54] Voice 3: So the elected trustees and the chair would go and sit down at a council meeting with the say,

[3:46:01] Voice 5: There will be people in there who are going, what

[3:46:11] Voice 3: is the item of stress?

[3:46:15] Voice 3: And so it's an introductory process, and then you have to start having conversations.

[3:46:22] Voice 3: You will have micro-meetings that you bring

[3:46:24] Voice 11: forward, the public will come, and you can start having these conversations.

[3:46:28] Voice 11: And you're right, it's

[3:46:32] Voice 3: the oldest thing in the world, except it's brand new.

[3:46:38] Voice 3: And, you know, I mean, when we set up formal staff-to-staff meetings,

[3:46:45] Voice 3: we started to get productive.

[3:46:48] Voice 3: When we were just having individual conversations, because the First Nations structure is quite set in stone, you know, with chief and council.

[3:47:01] Voice 4: And so we do have to make sure that you follow up on that as well.

[3:47:12] Voice 3: So trying to get to the end of this, I think there's two questions.

[3:47:15] Voice 3: One is this First Nations beef, which in my view, and I agree, it will take time to just create those relationships,

[3:47:22] Voice 3: let alone get to a place where you're having a conversation around how bylaw enforcement applies to nations.

[3:47:32] Voice 3: That's a really deep question, probably a really sensitive question for any First Nation.

[3:47:39] Voice 3: So that's a big question that I don't see getting resolved in the next few months.

[3:47:43] Voice 3: And Warren's looking to try to get some direction, I think. I'm going to try one more time.

[3:47:50] Voice 3: I see in this policy that it states 30 days and that's the policy and that is how we define

[3:47:58] Voice 3: reasonable time it's 30 days I

[3:48:01] Voice 15: still don't just I

[3:48:02] Voice 3: still don't see where you

[3:48:04] Voice 15: don't see that this

[3:48:07] Voice 15: policy or if I don't understand

[3:48:09] Voice 3: the risk that you see that this policy creates when you have all

[3:48:14] Voice 3: all that other legislation up and above it that defines what is required.

[3:48:20] Voice 3: And putting on R.P. Jima's hat, I know that he would say right now

[3:48:26] Voice 3: that putting

[3:48:27] Voice 15: this kind of stuff in a bylaw

[3:48:29] Voice 3: then gives you no flexibility

[3:48:31] Voice 3: in the future to quickly amend and address your policy for some situation

[3:48:37] Voice 3: that you didn't think of.

[3:48:38] Voice 3: Maybe 30 days isn't appropriate for some situation that you haven't thought of.

[3:48:42] Voice 3: and then you have to go back to your bylaw and go through a whole bylaw amendment procedure

[3:48:46] Voice 3: to get to a place where you can enforce your policy.

[3:48:49] Voice 4: So

[3:48:50] Voice 3: to me, I think that this is the best approach to take

[3:48:54] Voice 3: and that you can tweak and change this policy over time

[3:48:59] Voice 3: much more readily than you can apply it.

[3:49:02] Voice 3: So that's my last try.

[3:49:06] Voice 4: Why

[3:49:07] Voice 10: don't we get your answers using the one with the more investigation?

[3:49:11] Voice 10: because you're smart, you're thoughtful, you want it to work, why don't you do that with an income?

[3:49:17] Voice 10: Yeah, we

[3:49:19] Voice 12: can certainly separate this from the first station consultation issue on the

[3:49:25] Voice 12: athletes would be more a vehicle that would require a more centered approach than perhaps

[3:49:32] Voice 12: we'll be able to get with just the first attempts at engagement

[3:49:36] Voice 5: with the new chief of council.

[3:49:38] Voice 5: a couple of things. Otherwise,

[3:49:47] Voice 4: yeah, I think just I'm quite happy. And

[3:49:57] Voice 12: then moving forward

[3:50:00] Voice 12: with either resolution as we have them or resolution as I've been thinking through what

[3:50:06] Voice 12: might more specifically define the issue here and or address it if it proves even to be

[3:50:13] Voice 12: an issue on the enabling act. And I see no harm to us in waiting until October to enact

[3:50:28] Voice 12: this so

[3:50:28] Voice 3: hearing that that's the case i think uh warren needs really clear questions from you or

[3:50:39] Voice 3: what you're missing or what your concerns are so that he can go away and collect that information

[3:50:44] Voice 3: so that we can go back to the

[3:50:46] Voice 3: next meeting and get a yes or no and the same spot if that's fair

[3:50:54] Voice 12: So I'm happy to put

[3:50:56] Voice 12: specific concerns in writing and send

[3:51:00] Voice 12: them on. And if they can be addressed

[3:51:04] Voice 12: prior to the next meeting, that would be great.

[3:51:08] Voice 12: And yeah, no problem.

[3:51:12] Voice 8: So I'll just say this. You don't need to answer it, but it can go in the email.

[3:51:16] Voice 8: And so your concern is about

[3:51:19] Voice 8: about flexibility, if it goes in the bylaw, then in the bylaw and put and reference the

[3:51:35] Voice 8: exceptions that are in the policy. And that gives you I think

[3:51:41] Voice 3: at this time, at this point,

[3:51:42] Voice 3: we just need to go

[3:51:43] Voice 3: process for legal counsel. Yeah. Okay,

[3:51:49] Voice 8: I'll send that to me and he can

[3:51:51] Voice 8: incorporate it if it makes sense. But

[3:51:53] Voice 13: the only thing off the top of my head is if you

[3:51:56] Voice 13: put it in the bylaw we're getting we're done locked in again so if you want it to be changed

[3:52:01] Voice 13: 30

[3:52:01] Voice 8: days in all the exceptions

[3:52:03] Voice 13: exactly that's exactly what i was saying you put it in the bylaw

[3:52:07] Voice 13: referring to the policy if then if you change the policy you're going to change the bylaw

[3:52:12] Voice 13: so you're making sure you make me you're making the exception complicated for future oh i think

[3:52:17] Voice 8: it's so simple all right so

[3:52:20] Voice 13: so manager thank you for your time thank

[3:52:23] Voice 8: you very much and your

[3:52:24] Voice 13: patience. We'll have you back at the October meeting. We don't expect to

[3:52:32] Voice 10: have

[3:52:37] Voice 13: a long introduction

[3:52:39] Voice 13: to this bylaw again. We've heard hopefully there might be one or two small tweets. As you heard

[3:52:47] Voice 13: from Trustee Middleton, 99% thumbs up. They have a couple of questions and we'll deal with them.

[3:52:54] Voice 13: So there's

[3:52:55] Voice 8: a room for people here. We're making other arrangements for October 23rd because

[3:53:00] Voice 8: they're not coming back for this.

[3:53:03] Voice 11: We'll tell the readers, but not this month.

[3:53:08] Voice 10: Yeah, this is a stand-in, these tiny little things.

[3:53:11] Voice 10: Yeah,

[3:53:11] Voice 13: okay.

[3:53:12] Voice 13: So at that, we'll call it a conclusion for this discussion.

[3:53:16] Voice 13: Yep.

[3:53:17] Voice 4: So

[3:53:17] Voice 13: we have an upcoming meeting, next regular meeting scheduled for October 23rd by 25 here.

[3:53:22] Voice 13: here um we now have a town hall if anybody has any people you wanted

[3:53:29] Voice 3: to change your meeting time

[3:53:30] Voice 3: to 11 you should do that the resolution okay

[3:53:33] Voice 13: so that's it okay

[3:53:34] Voice 3: so

[3:53:37] Voice 13: somebody want to move that the

[3:53:39] Voice 13: start time for the next regular

[3:53:45] Voice 8: meeting scheduled for october 23rd 2025 as the channel recreation

[3:53:50] Voice 8: and Culture in the Fall, Ceterina Island, begin at 11 a.m.

[3:53:56] Voice 13: 11 a.m. OK.

[3:53:57] Voice 13: Second in the discussion, all the questions in favor?

[3:54:01] Voice 13: And so at conclusion, we have a count of all.

[3:54:04] Voice 13: I'm sure that everybody has said everything

[3:54:07] Voice 13: that needs to be said.

[3:54:08] Voice 13: But is there anything more?

[3:54:10] Voice 11: Just one thing.

[3:54:13] Voice 3: Believe it or not, you started a protest.

[3:54:17] Voice 3: Just by having the conversation that we all can

[3:54:20] Voice 3: speak today about First Nations, you have actually started the process. You're a Republic, you're

[3:54:27] Voice 3: going to go home, you're going to talk about it. They're going to go home and they're going to

[3:54:31] Voice 3: research and they're going to see how they move forward. And that's the best part is you get to

[3:54:36] Voice 3: now start the process. And I

[3:54:39] Voice 5: would say take your time and pursue what's a joint OTP review,

[3:54:52] Voice 3: which

[3:54:53] Voice 3: is exactly where we want to be we want both the nation and the island to be we don't seem to be

[3:54:59] Voice 3: together and so um you

[3:55:02] Voice 4: know the starting point was talking about thank you thank you very much

[3:55:08] Voice 4: i'd

[3:55:09] Voice 8: like to offer our membership quantities of cake from the highest farm management of

[3:55:18] Voice 8: just by opening the go see we'll have to

[3:55:22] Voice 8: bring that up

[3:55:23] Voice 8: thank

[3:55:23] Voice 5: you very much