Islands Trust Council regular meeting, July 24, 2026

[0:00:00] Voice 9: Friday, July the 24th, 10 a.m. We are a small group, but we have some meaty work to get through

[0:00:10] Voice 9: today, some meaty content. So with that, I will, would you like to just do a round table quickly,

[0:00:19] Voice 9: names and who and what you are, starting with, I'm just going to go down the list on the right

[0:00:25] Voice 9: and side as i see it so rob you're up first good

[0:00:33] Voice 12: morning all i'm rob croker planning services

[0:00:36] Voice 12: admin assistant with islands trust and uh very humbled and honored to be joining you from the

[0:00:41] Voice 12: lands of the lakwungen speaking peoples this morning

[0:00:44] Voice 9: okay trustee patrick oops

[0:00:48] Voice 9: good

[0:00:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): morning i'm laura patrick elected on salt spring island uh territories of many

[0:00:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): many Coast Salish First Nations.

[0:00:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): Stephan.

[0:00:59] Voice 6: Good morning, everybody.

[0:01:00] Voice 6: Stephan Cermak, Director of Planning Services,

[0:01:02] Voice 6: coming to you today from Salt Spring Island.

[0:01:05] Voice 9: Trustee Borthwick.

[0:01:09] Voice 14: Morning.

[0:01:09] Voice 14: I am Sam Borthwick, elected on Denman Island to stay

[0:01:13] Voice 14: in the traditional territories of the Comox First Nation.

[0:01:18] Voice 9: Trustee Elliott.

[0:01:20] Voice 9: Hi, everyone.

[0:01:23] Voice 11: Joining from Gabriel Island in Snonamik First Nation territory

[0:01:27] Voice 11: Tori on a fairy apologies for being late pleased to be with you all and

[0:01:32] Voice 9: and staff William Shulba

[0:01:37] Voice 9: please I'm

[0:01:43] Voice 13: William Shulba I'm senior freshwater specialist for the Alliance Trust coming to you

[0:01:48] Voice 13: from Salt Spring Island thanks

[0:01:50] Voice 9: sorry for hesitating over your name and your status I read it down on

[0:01:55] Voice 9: the right hand side and conveniently it has the word trustee in front of everybody else's names

[0:02:00] Voice 9: names and then you and Stefan are just names.

[0:02:04] Voice 9: And it's rather confusing because, of course, the list rearranges itself

[0:02:08] Voice 9: dynamically, just when you think I can work methodically through this.

[0:02:13] Voice 9: And OK, so I'm Mairead Boland, I'm a trustee on Saturna Island.

[0:02:18] Voice 9: OK, let's get cracking.

[0:02:22] Voice 9: Would anybody like to make any suggestions with respect to the agenda?

[0:02:26] Voice 9: agenda anything late new or would you like anything reordered thanks rob nope bye i don't

[0:02:39] Voice 9: see any hands oh wait now uh somebody i see one hand raised but nobody in my list would that be

[0:02:50] Voice 9: maxine by any chance rob um

[0:02:53] Voice 12: that's correct chair boland it is

[0:02:55] Voice 9: okay fair enough oh i see yes under

[0:02:56] Voice 9: Under attendees. Yeah. Okay, great. So the agenda stands as it is and is approved.

[0:03:05] Voice 9: And now we move on to the public comment period followed by delegations. So if there is no other

[0:03:12] Voice 9: person present, we can probably jump straight to delegations. Okay, Rob, would you like to

[0:03:21] Voice 9: invite Maxine in to present, please?

[0:03:27] Voice 12: Great. Maxine should now be able to speak and share her video

[0:03:31] Voice 12: you when she's ready sure

[0:03:33] Voice 9: hello maxine welcome to the regional planning committee sorry

[0:03:38] Voice 1: i had a

[0:03:39] Voice 1: little goof up with my computer can you hear me yes we can hear you all right great well thanks

[0:03:46] Voice 1: so much for letting me speak today um so friends of the gulf islands heard the presentation that

[0:03:52] Voice 1: the biologist gave at your committee in february and of course at that time we didn't have the

[0:03:58] Voice 1: biologist's report, so we based our delegation on the slideshow. Now we have the full report,

[0:04:06] Voice 1: and I listened to the Trust Programs Committee who discussed this issue yesterday.

[0:04:10] Voice 1: So the slideshow raised our concern that there are so many species at risk on the Trust Islands,

[0:04:19] Voice 1: but it stated that there was a large lack of information about their locations.

[0:04:24] Voice 1: locations. Many island OCPs state the intent to protect sensitive ecosystems, but we don't see

[0:04:33] Voice 1: how they can do this, you know, if they don't know where they are. I know there's some information

[0:04:39] Voice 1: that's quite old. So now that we have the whole report, it shows that in many cases, the locations

[0:04:47] Voice 1: are known. So now they need to be protected. Now, I bet that most of them are nature reserves

[0:04:56] Voice 1: because that's how they get identified. And I've heard that when they find endangered species on

[0:05:05] Voice 1: private property, that that information is confidential. So I suggest you ask staff

[0:05:11] Voice 1: what really can be done to protect species at risk on the islands.

[0:05:16] Voice 1: But one thing that also we saw in the slideshow that we are very concerned about is professional reports.

[0:05:25] Voice 1: And the biologists recommended having consistent and adequate professional reports.

[0:05:35] Voice 1: So the staff in the report you have today, I think they're recommending to adopt an accepted standard, and that would be a good start.

[0:05:46] Voice 1: But I heard at the Trust Programs Committee that local trust committees have to adopt a development approval information bylaw to require anything specific in these reports.

[0:05:58] Voice 1: So a model DIA would be helpful for that.

[0:06:05] Voice 1: So, just in closing, I have a request. Could you ask the staff to explain the difference between the task of the Trust Programs Committee on this subject, and what your committee is doing? It was explained at the Trust Programs Committee yesterday, but I didn't understand it at all.

[0:06:26] Voice 1: And if I didn't understand it, I think probably others didn't understand it.

[0:06:31] Voice 1: So I'm sure staff is making sure there isn't any overlap between the committees.

[0:06:37] Voice 1: But it would be great if you could ask them to explain this without using any planning jargon.

[0:06:44] Voice 1: Perhaps some examples would help.

[0:06:48] Voice 1: And you might also just think if this might task could be handled by one committee instead of two.

[0:06:54] Voice 1: too. So the last thing I want to say is that the recommendations in your staff report do seem like

[0:07:01] Voice 1: they would set us on a really good path to improve protection for endangered species, and I urge you

[0:07:08] Voice 1: to adopt them all. Thank you so much.

[0:07:13] Voice 9: Thank you very much, Maxine. I appreciate the fact that you

[0:07:16] Voice 9: You come and you pay attention and you are engaged always.

[0:07:21] Voice 9: So thank you.

[0:07:24] Voice 9: Would anybody like to respond to anything that Maxine has just said?

[0:07:31] Voice 9: Okay, Sam, go ahead.

[0:07:34] Voice 14: Yeah, just immediately right off the bat, obviously.

[0:07:37] Voice 14: I think I have very similar feelings from the first time

[0:07:42] Voice 14: that we saw the biologist report in terms of the overwhelming number

[0:07:47] Voice 14: number of species at risk. And yeah, I think we feel pretty strongly about sort of moving in that

[0:07:56] Voice 14: direction. My understanding, I mean, this may be where staff can jump in, but my understanding of

[0:08:03] Voice 14: the benefit or the utility of presenting to committees is not really that we're generating

[0:08:10] Voice 14: separate work flows on this it's it's sort of broadly passing the information around but

[0:08:18] Voice 14: ultimately the committee's just advised trust council trust council would be the one who

[0:08:22] Voice 14: passes the the final directive on what to do um so i may be i so i believe it's just a question of

[0:08:29] Voice 14: of getting getting this endorsement from a couple of different more focused bodies

[0:08:33] Voice 14: to Trust Council to strengthen that recommendation.

[0:08:38] Voice 14: Perhaps staff can, maybe Director Cermak can jump in.

[0:08:43] Voice 14: Thanks, Sam.

[0:08:47] Voice 9: I'll just say something briefly.

[0:08:50] Voice 9: So, Maxine, you might want to pay even more attention

[0:08:53] Voice 9: because there are some proposals around refining and redefining

[0:08:59] Voice 9: the structure in terms of the committees that are

[0:09:03] Voice 9: within our control there are certain structures in the trust which are governed by the act as

[0:09:09] Voice 9: you're probably well aware but there are committees and subcommittees that are within

[0:09:15] Voice 9: the control of trust council to rearrange and there are some proposals around those and there's

[0:09:22] Voice 9: also an initiative quite active within the governance committee to really make corporate

[0:09:31] Voice 9: planning better and a more sort of full process and within that the committee structure might

[0:09:42] Voice 9: also be reorganized. So I'll leave it at that but now I'll hand over to Trustee Patrick.

[0:09:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): I'm going to say the same comment I said at Trust Programmes Committee yesterday.

[0:09:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): The correspondence says that trustees are telling us they can protect the environment while managing

[0:09:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): continued growth. We can't. The continued growth is outlined in the OCPs and the land use bylaws

[0:10:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): that exist today, and they need to be updated because that's continued growth is having an

[0:10:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): impact not only on the environment, but the social well-being of our islands. So I do encourage the

[0:10:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): Friends of the Gulf Islands to support the local trust committees because DAI bylaws and all of

[0:10:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): that need to come through updated official community plans and land use bylaws. If we can

[0:10:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): have better tools we can do a better job thank

[0:10:31] Voice 9: you um stefan go ahead thank

[0:10:36] Voice 6: you chair um it's

[0:10:38] Voice 6: a relevant conversation of course and on this agenda we're going to talk more about this um

[0:10:44] Voice 6: the biologists deliverables to answer the question now while maxine is with us is the work that the

[0:10:52] Voice 6: biologist did was focused on integrating biology into land use decisions that was what we hired her

[0:10:58] Voice 6: for and that's so that's why it's coming via rpc to to respond to that work and you'll see all these

[0:11:04] Voice 6: deliverables actually do that whereas the work of trust programs committee currently is as of

[0:11:10] Voice 6: yesterday anyways was focused on sort of broader policy indicators and general policy advice now

[0:11:16] Voice 6: could rpc do that work they could but i think that's sort of looking at the indicators and

[0:11:22] Voice 6: some of the mapping work is is where they were then that's a broad just division of duties there

[0:11:28] Voice 6: but also later on in the new business item we're talking about the regional planning team and the

[0:11:33] Voice 6: work that they're doing and you'll see that there's a harmony between what this report's

[0:11:38] Voice 6: recommending and the work that a regional planning team is doing and how they're doing it

[0:11:42] Voice 6: and putting this work in front of as Chair Patrick said the updating all the OCPs is where the

[0:11:50] Voice 6: critical work happens and the implementation of that work happens through the DAI bylaws that's

[0:11:54] Voice 6: after updating the ocps and so we're trying to get all this work the strategic work the

[0:11:59] Voice 6: the latest best practices before or you know as we're updating the ocp work and we'll talk more

[0:12:07] Voice 6: about that later but all this fits into it's an interesting time for this particular rpc you have

[0:12:14] Voice 6: kind of these key pieces which demonstrate the direction we're trying to go as a team

[0:12:17] Voice 6: to make

[0:12:18] Voice 6: sure that we're integrating it into land use decisions thanks

[0:12:23] Voice 9: stephan um okay thank you

[0:12:25] Voice 9: Maxine and um we'll move on in the agenda now thank you very much so correspondence um none

[0:12:36] Voice 9: uh so next we're going to look at the draft minutes of the previous meeting

[0:12:41] Voice 9: um so does anybody have any comments on those nets nope I'd like to commend Rob for uh very

[0:12:56] Voice 9: very thoroughly reflecting a very long and fulsome, to misuse that word, conversation on

[0:13:03] Voice 9: list. And I really admire his ability to capture pretty much everything anybody said. We said a lot.

[0:13:13] Voice 9: So thank you, Rob. And I know you, in the middle, we kind of jumped around a bit and you reflected

[0:13:20] Voice 9: that as well so I appreciate it thank you very much and with that I think we will just adopt

[0:13:27] Voice 9: the minutes I don't see anybody raising a hand to eject or edit so that's good thank you so the

[0:13:36] Voice 9: minutes are adopted and right reservations without meeting none and follow-up action list for review

[0:13:46] Voice 9: view. Would you like to take us through that Stefan, please? Rob, could you make that a little

[0:13:52] Voice 9: bigger if you don't mind? I don't think I can make it bigger myself. Thank you, Chair.

[0:13:59] Voice 6: It's always my

[0:14:02] Voice 6: humble duty to show you this, you know, August 2022 FAQ for the freshwater footprint.

[0:14:12] Voice 6: print we that actually has been done to some degree in regards to the um recent gabriola ltc

[0:14:19] Voice 6: project um however that doesn't speak to the freshwater sustainability strategy as a whole

[0:14:25] Voice 6: recognize that um with the review of that we'll talk about that later as well that that um will

[0:14:32] Voice 6: be a part of that process as well so while that's reviewed the you know the questions that are

[0:14:36] Voice 6: generated from the review will will work on at that point and the other ones are you know

[0:14:42] Voice 6: Freshwater sustainability strategy, budget request.

[0:14:45] Voice 6: This is, of course, it got stalled at Trust Council

[0:14:47] Voice 6: because Trust Council didn't support the implementation.

[0:14:49] Voice 6: So it kind of languishes on here on this report without support.

[0:14:54] Voice 6: We can't really advance this any further

[0:14:55] Voice 6: until we get the review and implement it.

[0:14:59] Voice 6: And then the other one, grants.

[0:15:00] Voice 6: There's two that follow with David Motter in terms of policies.

[0:15:05] Voice 6: I've been speaking to Mr. Motter about how to prioritize

[0:15:08] Voice 6: these particular policies for Trust Council

[0:15:11] Voice 6: and to make sure that they follow through the governance committee and what have you.

[0:15:15] Voice 6: And I'm kind of getting concerned that the planning policies are getting languished behind

[0:15:22] Voice 6: just for every governance particular. So I'll follow up more on these to see if I can advance

[0:15:27] Voice 6: these a little bit better. I do know that the grants and donations administration is being

[0:15:31] Voice 6: looked at by finance right now, not just Mr. Marla or Director Marla. But the other ones that we have,

[0:15:37] Voice 6: the whole bunch of them, you know, there's keen interest to amend them. And I still have that,

[0:15:45] Voice 6: and I'm still working in the background recommending prioritization. So I might try

[0:15:48] Voice 6: to wrestle it back is what I'm saying, from Director Marder and the Governance Committee

[0:15:52] Voice 6: and presented to this meeting. So I'm sorry that I've let that languish. But I thought I was doing

[0:15:58] Voice 6: things in a coordinated manner. And of course, the last one is the eelgrass mapping and the

[0:16:02] Voice 6: kelp mapping which is um we're waiting for that return deliverable from um what's the name of

[0:16:07] Voice 6: that company um uh oh my gosh i'm having i'm forgetting what the name of the company is but

[0:16:13] Voice 6: we're expecting the deliverable in a year and a half for them to bring back the eelgrass um

[0:16:18] Voice 6: satellite mapping so that's it oh no is it not oh yeah follow-up action after that so um the others

[0:16:27] Voice 5: Others are

[0:16:28] Voice 6: more or less done, I believe.

[0:16:29] Voice 6: Are they not?

[0:16:30] Voice 6: Oh, no.

[0:16:33] Voice 6: So in the last

[0:16:34] Voice 6: one, I'm looking at page 15.

[0:16:36] Voice 6: Yeah.

[0:16:37] Voice 6: Regional planning needs to have strength in the minor project criteria.

[0:16:40] Voice 6: Oh, yes.

[0:16:40] Voice 6: The minor project criteria.

[0:16:41] Voice 6: I actually had a draft report on that attached to your other report here, but I didn't want

[0:16:47] Voice 6: to confuse the purpose of that report, and I didn't have enough time to separate and

[0:16:52] Voice 6: make them both make sense.

[0:16:53] Voice 6: So we're much further on that than that indicates.

[0:16:57] Voice 6: It's just I want it to be focused on the major projects

[0:17:00] Voice 6: as opposed to merging major and minor.

[0:17:02] Voice 6: Hatfield, thank you, Chair Patrick.

[0:17:06] Voice 6: So there you go.

[0:17:07] Voice 6: That's the end of my report.

[0:17:09] Voice 9: Thank you.

[0:17:10] Voice 9: Trustee Graham, you wanted to speak.

[0:17:12] Voice 9: Go ahead.

[0:17:13] Voice 5: Yeah, thank you, Chair.

[0:17:15] Voice 5: Just a question on the implementation follow-up action item.

[0:17:19] Voice 5: The date that it is to be delivered says 2029.

[0:17:24] Voice 5: I'm sure that's a misprint.

[0:17:26] Voice 5: It is not.

[0:17:27] Voice 6: actually perhaps i was being too cheeky but the reason i did that is because um and thank you i

[0:17:33] Voice 6: should have brought that to your attention um but great eyes and the reason i did that is you start

[0:17:37] Voice 6: thinking logically if we've got the review happening this fiscal and then so we're in 26 27

[0:17:45] Voice 6: and that means next fiscal 27 28 you're going to start talking about whether or not to implement

[0:17:50] Voice 6: it and that means if we develop budget for that that's going to be implemented in 28 29

[0:17:55] Voice 6: And I forecasted it to the, I guess it was December or was it the end?

[0:17:59] Voice 6: Yeah, it would have been December.

[0:18:01] Voice 6: So, yeah, that's, it was deliberate, but it was, I want it to be full.

[0:18:06] Voice 6: Like, maybe that's true.

[0:18:08] Voice 6: Maybe it's not, but I didn't want to, I wanted to manage expectations.

[0:18:16] Voice 9: Trustee Patrick, go ahead.

[0:18:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): Well, just a comment on that date.

[0:18:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): I mean, the watershed, is it the security program or funding continues to be funding

[0:18:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): some amazing work in this province that we're watching so many others just move so far ahead

[0:18:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): of us. And the longer it takes us to get our house in order, we're not getting to move forward

[0:18:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): and apply for those grants to get substantial money to do some exciting work. So I know this

[0:18:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): is going slowly, but we're missing opportunities that may not exist in 2029.

[0:18:58] Voice 9: Thanks. Do you want

[0:19:02] Voice 9: to respond to that stefan my

[0:19:05] Voice 6: response is uh we need support from trust counsel for us to implement

[0:19:09] Voice 6: the project then yeah we'd be happy to apply for funding if we had approval to do so and

[0:19:14] Voice 6: as you all know when those grant opportunities present themselves our grants manager

[0:19:19] Voice 6: says as such and we certainly look at all the opportunities that come our way you know as we're

[0:19:26] Voice 6: notified so happy to move quicker but I do think the the ideas that I'm seeing circulating around

[0:19:34] Voice 6: projects grant funding long-term project management there's a outstanding strategic

[0:19:41] Voice 6: plan item with trust council about and about how to fund projects in a way that's more adaptive to

[0:19:48] Voice 6: grant opportunities etc and staff that's one of the policies I'd like to look at in

[0:19:53] Voice 6: like wrestle it away from grants from Director Marr, not that he's not doing a good job. It's

[0:19:59] Voice 6: just, it's not his priority. And I think in order for us to properly implement a really good

[0:20:05] Voice 6: project management, I think that needs to be updated so we can do exactly what you're talking

[0:20:09] Voice 6: about. And I think that's outstanding work and our team is ready to start drafting those policies.

[0:20:14] Voice 6: So we're eager to do so.

[0:20:16] Voice 9: I think it would be very helpful. You know, we get those alerts

[0:20:19] Voice 9: from the grants manager but i read them and they have no context for me very often and anytime i

[0:20:26] Voice 9: have dug in a bit i usually run into a cul-de-sac so it would be i think very helpful if one of the

[0:20:34] Voice 9: directors who might you know suggest that a grant be applied for would quickly just as a very brief

[0:20:42] Voice 9: beef heads up give an alert to all trustees or trustees of the particular you know regional

[0:20:49] Voice 9: planning versus trust programs and put a bit of context around it because often there's a very

[0:20:54] Voice 9: short deadline but realistically it could be done by a resolution with that meeting you know to

[0:21:00] Voice 9: apply for a grant you know if you said this grant exists it could fit that with this it would take

[0:21:07] Voice 9: take us, you know, X hours, weeks, whatever, to prepare an application,

[0:21:12] Voice 9: should we consider it?

[0:21:15] Voice 9: Because it is like waiting for the whole cycle of approved by this

[0:21:19] Voice 9: and put it on that agenda and the other agenda.

[0:21:21] Voice 9: It doesn't really fit with how those opportunities sometimes work.

[0:21:25] Voice 9: So I would recommend that any director would just grab hold of that

[0:21:31] Voice 9: and, you know, turn it into two paragraphs

[0:21:35] Voice 9: and send it to the right people what do

[0:21:39] Voice 8: you think thank

[0:21:40] Voice 6: you sorry is that to me chair or chair

[0:21:42] Voice 6: yeah

[0:21:43] Voice 8: to you sorry steph

[0:21:44] Voice 6: yeah no i i certainly think um yeah that's that's doable and i think

[0:21:49] Voice 6: there's demonstrations where we've done that in the past so when there's an opportunity we

[0:21:53] Voice 6: certainly pursue it and it has a way of taking over your immediate work plan when you do that

[0:21:57] Voice 6: i think even better than that i think we and we're heading this way with the work program

[0:22:03] Voice 6: and the way we're doing the whole organizational change

[0:22:07] Voice 6: for corporate planning is having,

[0:22:10] Voice 6: and I see this with other organizations

[0:22:12] Voice 6: all over the place,

[0:22:13] Voice 6: they have the list of projects that they're working on

[0:22:15] Voice 6: and some of them are waiting

[0:22:19] Voice 6: for that capital funding opportunity.

[0:22:21] Voice 6: And so being able to be agile

[0:22:23] Voice 6: to go from one project to another

[0:22:25] Voice 6: as those

[0:22:25] Voice 6: opportunities exist,

[0:22:26] Voice 6: I think is kind of what we're missing right now

[0:22:29] Voice 6: and being ready for those when they come.

[0:22:32] Voice 6: So it's kind of like shovel-ready projects, if you know what I mean.

[0:22:34] Voice 6: So being able to put a project on hold, waiting for that funding opportunity and focusing on this project.

[0:22:40] Voice 6: But if that opportunity comes and we get the funding, being able to be a little bit more nimble.

[0:22:46] Voice 6: And I think those are the policy changes we're talking about exploring.

[0:22:49] Voice 6: Laurie.

[0:22:49] Voice 9: And is it possible to lobby for that in the sense that, you know, I think back to

[0:22:58] Voice 9: the mid-90s, you know, protocol agreements with the provincial government and the ministry of

[0:23:05] Voice 9: this and that. Is it possible to say we have these three things that we would like to do,

[0:23:11] Voice 9: we do not have funding for it. In your consideration of grant funding going forward,

[0:23:17] Voice 9: could these be considered when you go to talk to the minister or whatever that you just say

[0:23:25] Voice 9: this is how much and these this is what we would like to do just be more proactive i mean that's

[0:23:31] Voice 9: kind of what the honest trust conservancy does to some degree and well they give them the work plan

[0:23:37] Voice 9: but you know we could if you went and said we're going to do these two things because it fits in

[0:23:42] Voice 9: our budget but we have these three things that we should or could or would like to do

[0:23:48] Voice 9: when are you going to bring out some grant funding and could they

[0:23:53] Voice 9: be targeted for that anyway just an idea thanks

[0:24:00] Voice 6: chair i think all those when we rewrite the grant

[0:24:02] Voice 6: funding and the project sort of management i think all those should be fleshed out in in

[0:24:07] Voice 6: those policy changes.

[0:24:09] Voice 9: Okay, fair enough. Anybody else want to say anything here or should we move

[0:24:16] Voice 9: on? Sorry, one other thing, and I could have missed it, Stefan, but are we going to cover

[0:24:25] Voice 9: the peer review of the water strategy at some stage later?

[0:24:33] Voice 6: Thanks, Chair. We do have

[0:24:37] Voice 6: Senior Freshwater Specialist Sholba standing by for his report. He's providing an update

[0:24:42] Voice 6: and feel free to ask him that question at that time. He's leading that project. It'd

[0:24:47] Voice 6: be a short update but he can give you some details about where he's at. That's perfectly

[0:24:51] Voice 6: reasonable to ask

[0:24:52] Voice 6: him at that point.

[0:24:53] Voice 9: Is that not a bit like marking your own homework?

[0:24:55] Voice 9: Just wondering. Just

[0:24:58] Voice 6: asking a professional to write the terms of reference for a report to

[0:25:04] Voice 6: review a report is you know okay

[0:25:06] Voice 9: fair enough that was a

[0:25:08] Voice 6: kind of a joke really

[0:25:09] Voice 6: i do understand but i

[0:25:10] Voice 6: i don't think it's like as you describe but i do it okay

[0:25:15] Voice 9: fair enough okay let's move on so we're

[0:25:19] Voice 9: right now into item number seven fresh water atlas updates and timeline briefings so um stephan i

[0:25:26] Voice 9: leave you to kick off and invite william as appropriate well

[0:25:31] Voice 6: thank you cherry uh it is

[0:25:33] Voice 6: appropriate for me to now invite William Scholl, please, to present his work.

[0:25:40] Voice 9: Okay. A little bit bigger, Rob, please. Thank you.

[0:25:58] Voice 13: Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm just taking a time here. I didn't appreciate that comment earlier, Chair.

[0:26:04] Voice 13: Can I have five minutes, actually? I can't do this right now.

[0:26:10] Voice 9: Well, let's just go on with the briefing as it goes. And at the end, let's deal with the

[0:26:16] Voice 9: peer review what the status is of preparing for that um

[0:26:22] Voice 13: okay so uh uh the briefing is in front of

[0:26:26] Voice 13: you um if you go down to the timeline there is one milestone missed and that's the uh demonstration

[0:26:33] Voice 13: for today um there's been a lot of work in the back end for this uh project and um and there's

[0:26:41] Voice 13: a lot of coordination with is is pretty much a like what do you call it a mini tap map it this

[0:26:48] Voice 13: is pretty much map it and and there's a lot of uh handoffs that need to happen and and um there's

[0:26:56] Voice 13: just been um uh there there was a missed workshop due to an illness um that uh was a workshop to

[0:27:06] Voice 13: to upload the data that I've been processing

[0:27:10] Voice 13: into the Islands Trust ESRI enterprise server.

[0:27:20] Voice 13: And so, yeah, you won't get a demonstration today.

[0:27:25] Voice 13: But what will happen is in August,

[0:27:28] Voice 13: we will circulate the demonstration URL.

[0:27:33] Voice 13: This will be to trustees and staff.

[0:27:35] Voice 13: So likely you have to use your single sign-on because it's not going to be public yet.

[0:27:41] Voice 13: And we will solicit feedback from the trustees and staff and then work on it in September to ensure that there's a good public rollout of the web maps.

[0:27:56] Voice 13: And then in the following month, we'll be working with communication staff over the summer and the early fall to ensure that our educational experiences are ready for public rollout.

[0:28:10] Voice 13: And then in December, we'll roll out our 3D hydrogeological models within the same kind of web interface.

[0:28:23] Voice 13: The URL that will be circulated, trustees and staff will have the web maps and the educational

[0:28:29] Voice 13: experiences, but not the 3D hydrogeological models.

[0:28:31] Voice 13: There's some significant technical hurdles that we have to do to make that happen, but

[0:28:37] Voice 13: it's all looking like it's shaping up well.

[0:28:42] Voice 13: Yeah and further to that, like I get a lot of inquiries, like I have one from Bowen now

[0:28:48] Voice 13: now and one from Salt Spring on sharing the spatial data with them.

[0:28:58] Voice 13: And so as part of the, and it's kind of fatiguing to take in those inquiries and like do the

[0:29:07] Voice 13: work to then hand it off.

[0:29:08] Voice 13: And then what does that mean for data sharing?

[0:29:10] Voice 13: So we're working through that right now to have downloaded packages ready for each or

[0:29:17] Voice 13: or each lta really um and uh and with a limited liability or whatever clause that goes with that

[0:29:27] Voice 13: um like you see that pop up on on most uh gis uh products of local government and um yeah so then

[0:29:37] Voice 13: that will work well for uh for our partners and collaborators who are looking for freshwater data

[0:29:44] Voice 13: it's all going to be public and open anyway so and then alongside with this there's a lot of

[0:29:49] Voice 13: primary like most of the work that i've been doing is on primary science so

[0:29:53] Voice 13: these are layers that are under the responsibility of islands trust including new

[0:30:00] Voice 13: water course mapping that we need. So I'm processing that. So this is not just serving

[0:30:06] Voice 13: up someone else's information. This is tidying up all the metadata, which is a significant

[0:30:11] Voice 13: undertaking. And the reason is why it's taking so much time. It's, you know, garbage in, garbage out

[0:30:16] Voice 13: like this. All of these layers will be used for derivative products and be shared across the

[0:30:22] Voice 13: honest trust area with different agencies and partners. So it has to all be kind of only get

[0:30:27] Voice 13: one chance to do that so um yeah we're really close i'm working closely with uh information

[0:30:33] Voice 13: services right now to get this over the finish line for um trustees and staff for their early

[0:30:40] Voice 1: look

[0:30:40] Voice 13: in in august that's it

[0:30:45] Voice 9: okay um i have a question which is are you prepared for the fact

[0:30:51] Voice 9: that you will have a complete new set of trustees maybe that's a good thing for the rollout post the

[0:30:59] Voice 9: the elections so when you really go live there'll be a lot of people who'll be um unfamiliar with

[0:31:05] Voice 9: the background just wondering if you're thinking about that but i'm looking forward to seeing it

[0:31:10] Voice 9: myself thank you um

[0:31:12] Voice 13: yeah yeah through the chair uh yeah we we have been talking about that we have

[0:31:15] Voice 13: done i would i would suggest not a great job of of orientation of freshwater uh for new trustees so

[0:31:22] Voice 13: I've been talking with Director Cermak about how we're going to include freshwater as an orientation item, either as a standalone or as a package deal with other orientation.

[0:31:37] Voice 13: I'm not too sure. That's kind of out of my ballpark, but it's a perfect timing for that because we will have it in front of them, and that orientation is likely to come in the new year anyway.

[0:31:51] Voice 13: way and um and it's lining up with a lot of business cases on ltc levels that that relate

[0:31:57] Voice 13: to fresh water so there's a lot going on a lot in process that is like you know transcending the

[0:32:03] Voice 13: election there's nothing really dropping in october for this uh strategy so um yeah we just

[0:32:11] Voice 13: carry on let's end the term that's how it goes yep

[0:32:14] Voice 9: okay thank you william um laura trustee patrick

[0:32:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): well well thank you well i know this is a huge undertaking and a a huge desire on your part to

[0:32:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): see this done as i'm sure everyone else is too it's the finish line is always seems it's almost

[0:32:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): there um i might have two questions one is uh um i assume the methodology and everything that's

[0:32:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): being done to pull this all together is being documented and so forth i kind of use the what

[0:32:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): what if you win the lottery tonight?

[0:32:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): Is it well-documented and can it be reproduced as we go forward?

[0:32:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): And the second question would be, is it being built to maintain itself?

[0:33:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): Like some of those data layers may have aging issues.

[0:33:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): The data needs to be reproduced at a certain frequency.

[0:33:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): And would there be a plan kind of associated with this, you know, kind of a longer-term plan to make sure that it is maintained and as up-to-date and functioning as possible going forward?

[0:33:27] Voice 13: Yeah, yeah, great. Thanks, Trustee Patrick, for that and through the chair.

[0:33:32] Voice 13: I have won the lottery. I got my job in geoscience.

[0:33:36] Voice 13: Yeah, so there's some elements of this that nobody wants to go down that road.

[0:33:41] Voice 13: like the metadata work i'm sure that myself and our gis specialist kendra can we can lament on

[0:33:47] Voice 13: getting the metadata cleaned up and then once it's clean then it's good but um so that there's

[0:33:52] Voice 13: parts of this that doesn't need that but but um throughout you can see that i started versioning

[0:33:58] Voice 13: so freshwater atlas 26.01 so the every time there's an update um it will follow the calendar

[0:34:06] Voice 13: year and then there's a change log with that so there's a history of and it goes back to

[0:34:12] Voice 13: freshwater alice one two three and four and then i did then i turned to uh to calendar year so

[0:34:18] Voice 13: there's there's a long history of of change log and i just have that as part of my like i need it

[0:34:23] Voice 13: to to do the work so there's that and then for the for the methodology of of how it goes into um

[0:34:31] Voice 13: into like our server that's that's mostly like gis they have that figured out and and that's

[0:34:37] Voice 13: kind of just corporate um memory there and then on the um like on the online education side that's

[0:34:45] Voice 13: where like i'll put some methodology around that like how those were built and and because that'll

[0:34:51] Voice 13: help us with communications um and then uh your your comment about and then of course like all

[0:34:58] Voice 13: of the layers like yes like the water course layers like how i'm going from lidar to water

[0:35:02] Voice 13: course yes that's all methodology and for sure like that it's all going to be included i'm doing

[0:35:07] Voice 13: a big hydrology project right now um as part of the freshwater alice project uh about the

[0:35:14] Voice 13: maintenance that's a very good point and i've spoken with kendra about that um because we're

[0:35:19] Voice 13: we can't unfortunately like most um um mapping projects you can serve up world mapping service

[0:35:27] Voice 13: So you can just basically ask the owner and the person responsible for the layers for

[0:35:33] Voice 13: a URL, and then you just put that into your web and it just serves it up as it gets updated

[0:35:39] Voice 13: on the other side.

[0:35:40] Voice 13: We unfortunately can't do that.

[0:35:41] Voice 13: So we have to download the data, say like from the BC Data Catalog, and there's some

[0:35:48] Voice 13: freshwater layers like wells that will be updated several times in the year.

[0:35:53] Voice 13: so we're going to put wells i think on a bi-yearly no but a semi-annually yeah semi-annually um

[0:36:00] Voice 13: updates get maintenance schedule and then other ones like aquifers and things like that we're

[0:36:06] Voice 13: just going to put it on a yearly maintenance schedule so within every year they'll they'll

[0:36:11] Voice 13: be updated this and then that has nothing to do with parcels and all that stuff that gis does so

[0:36:17] Voice 13: So there's, there's a half of the work or sorry, half of the layers on the freshwater

[0:36:22] Voice 13: Atlas are borrowed from our existing GIS, um, to enrich in the experience.

[0:36:27] Voice 13: And so like parcels and all that, and those kinds of things are taken from the, uh, the

[0:36:33] Voice 13: database and all of the freshwater layers that are going to be in like the ones that

[0:36:39] Voice 13: are owned by Islands Trust and, and we have responsibility on are, are in our, our database

[0:36:44] Voice 13: base that is maintained and kept by information services. And then, yeah, those layers that we're

[0:36:52] Voice 13: borrowing from the province will be on a maintenance schedule to kind of match how

[0:36:56] Voice 13: often they get updated.

[0:37:00] Voice 9: Thank you. Stefan, would you like to comment?

[0:37:04] Voice 6: Thanks. That was an excellent answer. I appreciate both the question and the answer. I just thought

[0:37:08] Voice 6: I'd add a very simplified response too. And I believe Director Frater reported this out at

[0:37:15] Voice 6: Trust Programs Committee, and that is we've had

[0:37:18] Voice 6: legislative and information services share

[0:37:22] Voice 6: the drafting of

[0:37:26] Voice 6: an information management program whereby

[0:37:30] Voice 6: we catalog what we have and then we catalog what the gaps are

[0:37:34] Voice 6: and managing that over time and looking for

[0:37:37] Voice 6: going forward. I don't believe we've ever had such a data management system

[0:37:42] Voice 6: system and I believe that William's work will be at the forefront of that work looking for that

[0:37:48] Voice 6: maintenance into that data management so we're getting organized with that we've seen the

[0:37:52] Voice 6: beginning of that plan and I imagine you'll hear more about that rollout but it's a great question

[0:37:57] Voice 6: and it's really important and we're all building towards that same place relying on information

[0:38:04] Voice 6: services to be able to maintain this but of course someone like with William's expertise has to sort

[0:38:09] Voice 6: of feed them the information that where to get it and the maintenance schedule that's required.

[0:38:17] Voice 9: I'd like to add to that that um you know data management is one thing which is indeed really

[0:38:24] Voice 9: important but I go back to the beginning of my term and the management and provision of

[0:38:29] Voice 9: unstructured information i.e reports etc and sharing of those is needs to be a bit better

[0:38:37] Voice 9: I think you know the stuff that's in the catalogue is fine but on a daily basis finding things and

[0:38:44] Voice 9: agendas is difficult but good to hear about the data management anyway with respect to the water

[0:38:50] Voice 9: course data was that an unexpected like I don't remember was this planned was it known that you

[0:39:00] Voice 9: would have to do this or did it come about through the model so they how did this work

[0:39:07] Voice 9: you seem as though this was work that you had not anticipated william would you like to speak to

[0:39:13] Voice 9: that thanks uh

[0:39:16] Voice 13: no it was anticipated when we got the new lidar data in 2019 that we haven't done

[0:39:22] Voice 13: anything like we haven't updated uh water course um modeling with it and uh in the past um uh

[0:39:30] Voice 13: information services did that work in-house and so yeah it's just it's just that we did

[0:39:38] Voice 13: several islands as we as the information was needed but the the the big challenge of the

[0:39:48] Voice 13: freshwater atlas is to make it cohesive across the island's trust area and have coverage across

[0:39:52] Voice 13: the island's trust area so there's like salt springs had water course mapping like good water

[0:39:59] Voice 13: our course mapping for a long time even though some of our dpas are still built on trim which is

[0:40:04] Voice 13: just i don't yeah anyway that's a different topic of discussion on how outdated some of our dpas are

[0:40:12] Voice 13: based on old data so so the idea it was to do the process and i i've done watershed hydrology

[0:40:21] Voice 13: a lot in the past and it's just on the side i just have my mapping computer process islands

[0:40:27] Voice 13: and takes about a week per island and just been running for the last you know year whenever I

[0:40:32] Voice 13: turn it on to to get the hydrology out so yeah no it's it was just it's just kind of a side project

[0:40:39] Voice 13: to to enrich the experience of the freshwater outlets and also like there I get so many

[0:40:44] Voice 13: questions about about water course assessment and and really something that's kind of under the hood

[0:40:51] Voice 13: that it doesn't really come to trustees so much as like how much I work with bylaw

[0:40:55] Voice 13: law enforcement. And, and so some of this work is, is related to the work that they do. They do a lot

[0:41:03] Voice 13: of, um, like water course, um, um, investigations and, and I, and I go along with them on, on some,

[0:41:11] Voice 13: uh, site visits. And so to have the best up-to-date water course mapping is, is beneficial

[0:41:17] Voice 13: beneficial to to us when we go on to to a site um of a bylaw enforcement um visit yeah thanks

[0:41:28] Voice 9: sure thanks I appreciate the work and um I'm glad it's running ticking over in the background but

[0:41:34] Voice 9: you could also tackle it on the basis of doing the mapping work on an you know as needed basis

[0:41:43] Voice 9: maybe given that it was done once already but um but anyway that's just a comment so let's move on

[0:41:50] Voice 9: is does anybody want to discuss the water atlas further and i'm looking forward to seeing uh to

[0:41:58] Voice 9: receiving the link and and the one thing that i always wonder about because when i know that you

[0:42:07] Voice 9: know on a large scale if you look at the wells database across an island you know it gives an

[0:42:13] Voice 9: an indication up to a point it's not you know incredibly accurate but it you know it's what

[0:42:19] Voice 9: we have and it kind of works but when I zoom in and this is kind of a technical issue I think

[0:42:24] Voice 9: more than wrong data the wells are not necessarily in the place that I expect them to be on the lots

[0:42:31] Voice 9: especially when you have multiple small lots and the wells are you know not you know the lots are

[0:42:38] Voice 9: laid out properly on the overlay and then well locations are higgledy-piggledy and i'm not sure

[0:42:45] Voice 9: it's really incorrect data so long so much as sort of lack of integration of the

[0:42:54] Voice 9: actual projection systems or something so would you be able

[0:42:58] Voice 13: to yeah i can

[0:42:59] Voice 13: just explain that so i'm

[0:43:01] Voice 13: I'm, I'm, I'm a, uh, what do you call it? A defendant or defender of the G wells. It is good.

[0:43:09] Voice 13: Like compared to other jurisdictions in Canada, we have, we are lucky to have it. Um, we, uh,

[0:43:18] Voice 13: the province, unless there is, um, some type of reason for a groundwater protection officer to

[0:43:26] Voice 13: go onto a property the province doesn't go onto the property so with respect to wells so a lot of

[0:43:33] Voice 13: the wells were drilled before we even had handheld gps so a lot of those wells when they were imported

[0:43:40] Voice 13: when the province after 2016 really like literally kicked down the door of drillers to ask them for

[0:43:46] Voice 13: their drill records because they were hoarding them because what it was a voluntary process to

[0:43:51] Voice 13: get your well registered now it's now there's a criteria and it gets placed in the right spot

[0:43:55] Voice 13: spot since 2016 so all the wells since since 2016 that have been registered are likely in the right

[0:44:02] Voice 13: spot for for a lot of the wells they're they're placed in the centroid of the lot and that can

[0:44:09] Voice 13: look really weird if it's a really odd lot it could be put in a strange place like say on the

[0:44:15] Voice 13: side of a cliff or something like that and and that's because those wells could have been drilled

[0:44:21] Voice 13: in the 50s or 60s and that's confusing and and it even gets more confusing if there's old subdivisions

[0:44:28] Voice 13: so like a 1970s or 80s subdivision uh those wells can be clustered in say one lot or something like

[0:44:36] Voice 13: that because that's how the driller reported them and there was a large bulk upload and and that's

[0:44:43] Voice 13: where we had a lot of errors like in 2020 and then over the last five years they've really tried to

[0:44:49] Voice 13: find those errors like you don't really see many wells in the middle of the ocean anymore so they

[0:44:54] Voice 13: they cleaned up a lot of that stuff um but that's that's largely the reason and and then so now

[0:44:59] Voice 13: just be up to the well owner to identify that and then and then put in a you know like on g wells

[0:45:07] Voice 13: you can submit a request to have your well placed in the right position or just or just say there's

[0:45:13] Voice 13: an issue with the well and then and then that gets the province to look at it but in the last two

[0:45:18] Voice 13: years uh groundwater has been cut like 85 so they they like they're really resource strapped right

[0:45:25] Voice 13: now i

[0:45:25] Voice 9: hope it's uh groundwater staff not groundwater itself that's been cut 85 but anyway

[0:45:32] Voice 9: you mean this the the eight the organization yeah

[0:45:37] Voice 13: once once walrus took over from ministry

[0:45:40] Voice 13: ministry of forest had more money for this and then once once groundwater staff got placed in

[0:45:45] Voice 13: walrus then it it they they just got it all got cut

[0:45:49] Voice 9: okay thank you so over to you thanks william

[0:45:54] Voice 14: um yeah just to say and obviously this is no fault of of anyone i gather if there's an illness

[0:46:00] Voice 14: obviously it's disappointing not to get to see this in action um i'm sure william would love to

[0:46:05] Voice 14: be showing it off as well um so yeah i was looking forward to that obviously these things happen um

[0:46:10] Voice 14: and yeah we'll likewise be looking forward to to seeing it when it comes through great

[0:46:15] Voice 8: yeah yeah

[0:46:16] Voice 13: Yeah, thanks. I'm usually with those like with these demos, it's like I'm talking and then nobody's talking and then it's like, hey, how'd you like the demo?

[0:46:24] Voice 13: So I think like when I do the URL circulation, I might do the same.

[0:46:29] Voice 13: Like I might just do a demo of it like and record myself over Zoom and then just work with Morgana on how we can share that.

[0:46:37] Voice 13: that so then it's not just like here's a url and you get kicked to the freshwater house even though

[0:46:42] Voice 13: there's there's like an orientation page in there like how to use this thing um that that i could i

[0:46:49] Voice 13: could you know do a do like what the demo was going to be today like five to ten minute that's

[0:46:56] Voice 13: a good idea

[0:46:57] Voice 3: um yeah

[0:46:58] Voice 14: i would i would just say yeah and i think obviously borgata's a good resource

[0:47:02] Voice 14: in this, but even a little link to a YouTube short of you just navigating through and sort

[0:47:10] Voice 14: of explaining what the base things are. This is where you find this. This is where you find this.

[0:47:14] Voice 14: Because obviously, I mean, the best demo is always when people can get their grubby little

[0:47:18] Voice 14: mitts on it and poke around. Certainly in terms of the way that I learn to use new programs is

[0:47:24] Voice 14: sort of just twiddling the various dials. But yeah, I mean, I think a short introduction

[0:47:30] Voice 14: introduction from you with a with a little like hey this is where the thing is and and you know

[0:47:35] Voice 14: um there's a lot of good i mean we're gonna we're well we're well we're slightly probably past the

[0:47:40] Voice 14: golden age of youtube tutorials but being able to like bookmark uh various points in a video and say

[0:47:47] Voice 14: so that someone can actually look for like okay now what which i'm looking at this menu or i'm

[0:47:53] Voice 14: looking for this layer um and you might be able to like those things can be marked i know that

[0:47:58] Voice 14: that's a whole other area of expertise and i certainly not

[0:48:02] Voice 13: really you know but it's it's

[0:48:04] Voice 13: frustrating to go through four hours of ltc meeting without i mean i can't even stand

[0:48:10] Voice 13: collaborate video anymore it drives me it doesn't even

[0:48:13] Voice 13: work right like there needs to be some kind

[0:48:16] Voice 13: of change there and i know i'm speaking off the cuff but it's just so frustrating because i i have

[0:48:21] Voice 13: to go back to meetings a lot right yeah i imagine trustees too and i think it was bowen or some

[0:48:28] Voice 13: municipality uses youtube and they just put their their agenda package with time stamps i'm like oh

[0:48:36] Voice 13: my god it's

[0:48:38] Voice 14: if i had this this was so sophisticated hours and it's also

[0:48:41] Voice 14: it's so easy yeah and so not

[0:48:43] Voice 14: not complicated yeah no completely anyways

[0:48:47] Voice 9: i agree uh thank you trustee elliot thank you and

[0:48:57] Voice 11: uh i really apologize for being in and out i am now in a place with stable internet um and william

[0:49:03] Voice 11: you may have uh covered this so my apologies if this question is repetitive but could you describe

[0:49:08] Voice 11: a little bit more um this LTE a specific package that um sure would would arrive like and and

[0:49:18] Voice 11: which kind of users would be looking to use it what kind of data are they accessing and is it

[0:49:24] Voice 11: sort of a spatial modeling experience is it yeah just if you could describe that a little bit more

[0:49:33] Voice 11: sure

[0:49:34] Voice 13: yeah this is nothing new to the islands trust if you go to um on our website there's a

[0:49:40] Voice 13: there's like a mapping like data and mapping page where you can download zoning shape files and

[0:49:46] Voice 13: or kml um there's a there's a

[0:49:49] Voice 13: few others like not many um so this would just be that like

[0:49:54] Voice 13: i'm a really open data person especially since i'm working in like the public service like all

[0:50:00] Voice 13: this should be accessible in some kind of way and um i'm just making it easier on myself by doing

[0:50:07] Voice 13: this like i i'm like i'm going to be swamped in the next two weeks just getting data to people

[0:50:13] Voice 13: um you know there's a this work is not just for us right and so there's a lot of people

[0:50:19] Voice 13: interested in this work and and so that yeah the the packages will be very simple they'll be um

[0:50:25] Voice 13: um just zip files of data and it's like and with a you know with a copyright or liability statement

[0:50:33] Voice 13: it's like there you go there it is it's it's up to you to figure it out like i'm not going to

[0:50:40] Voice 13: teach people how to use a roster but if you know how here it is so that's kind of you know that

[0:50:47] Voice 13: there's nothing new we've been doing that at islands trust this is just going to be more

[0:50:51] Voice 13: involved and then per LTA it just makes it easier rather than like shipping around the entire

[0:50:58] Voice 13: package to people if you know if someone from Saturna wants to look at something on East Point

[0:51:03] Voice 13: there's no reason for me to ship them house sound islands like that this just doesn't make sense so

[0:51:08] Voice 13: this is just makes it lighter for for data transfer and there is a little bit of a challenge

[0:51:14] Voice 13: there on like how we serve it up because these are a little bit bigger files than what we're

[0:51:19] Voice 13: used to and so i was working a little bit with is on that but that's kind of um that's part of it

[0:51:25] Voice 13: but but really like

[0:51:27] Voice 13: i'm looking at that as like to be implemented in the in early next year like

[0:51:32] Voice 13: when when it's all done like that's that's a nice to have thing and so in the time being when i get

[0:51:40] Voice 13: asked for it it like right now the i won't take the inquiry from just a regular resident saying

[0:51:47] Voice 1: hey

[0:51:47] Voice 13: can you give me data it's like no right like i'm not doing that but like for for bowen

[0:51:52] Voice 13: bowen is working on a watershed management plan and they have urban systems and i'm talking with

[0:51:57] Voice 13: a png and we're going back and forth and like it's a real project it's not just like speculation from

[0:52:04] Voice 13: a islander that wants to know what's going on so but if there is like say a co-op student that's

[0:52:11] Voice 13: working on north pander um and if they want some data it's like yeah go ahead go download it just

[0:52:17] Voice 13: like you can download a bc data catalog and that was like one of the other questions like should

[0:52:22] Voice 13: this all go into bc data catalog and no because we're responsible for a lot of those data layers

[0:52:27] Voice 13: and and bc data catalog won't take on that responsibility for those layers nor should they

[0:52:32] Voice 13: so um yeah just kind of doing a like a bc data catalog hybrid for the threshold outlets i just

[0:52:44] Voice 9: want to quickly ask a question myself i'm conscious of the time so i'll just keep it brief

[0:52:48] Voice 9: and i it's just for have a think about so i looked at you know the islands trust directly regulates

[0:52:57] Voice 9: um maximum 10 percent of the area of the trust um in terms of you know actual acreage much of it

[0:53:08] Voice 9: is provincial and federal parks so i can understand they probably do some work about

[0:53:14] Voice 9: biodiversity etc etc species at risk but do they do any work on water wells water courses

[0:53:23] Voice 9: because we should really be sharing like we're mapping the entirety of every island and arguably

[0:53:31] Voice 9: arguably only a small proportion of those islands are actually directly under our control with

[0:53:38] Voice 9: respect to regulation of the water course use etc etc so i'm just thinking reflecting on that

[0:53:46] Voice 9: and the cost to us of doing that for you know the 65 000 hectares or whatever it is when we can only

[0:53:54] Voice 9: actually directly regulate and control a small proportion anyway

[0:54:00] Voice 13: yeah so i can take that on

[0:54:02] Voice 13: chair so you know doing four lots or doing 400 lots on on galliano is the same cost right so

[0:54:08] Voice 13: so like the cost of of doing the work it's an island project and and when i you know like we

[0:54:16] Voice 13: when our consultants do the work they don't look at the parcel map right they're they're looking

[0:54:20] Voice 13: at the natural system and then we get

[0:54:22] Voice 13: that data back and then we we engage it on the parcel system

[0:54:25] Voice 13: like the galliano groundwater protection dpa but you make a really good point because there is

[0:54:32] Voice 13: nothing more defeating than developing that dp on galliano and seeing all this recharge protected

[0:54:39] Voice 13: and then we did the filtering of of the exclusions of parks and protected areas and then you go from

[0:54:47] Voice 13: from 250 protected parcels down to 45 and and it's like okay the reason why we did that work

[0:54:55] Voice 13: and the recharge is sitting in those beautiful areas and it is supplying the the wells that

[0:55:01] Voice 13: that we do have control over because we control the density of domestic groundwater wells so there

[0:55:07] Voice 13: is a relationship there and much like on hornby island on the front country work of bc parks

[0:55:14] Voice 13: parks and basically paving over a wetland to make a campsite there i don't think that we can just

[0:55:24] Voice 13: autopilot it and say that our partners in bc parks and the federal government and crown lands are

[0:55:33] Voice 13: are undertaking work that is supporting freshwater sustainability on the islands because we don't

[0:55:42] Voice 13: have a memorandum of understanding with any of those groups with respect to protecting groundwater

[0:55:48] Voice 13: it even goes deeper than that because the province is licensing groundwater wells say in the low

[0:55:55] Voice 13: areas of of the lands right and they're assuming that they have responsibility over that but they

[0:56:03] Voice 13: do not assume the the means in which those water wells are getting replenished through

[0:56:11] Voice 13: recharge and and so it's then it's just autopilot for the local governments to protect those

[0:56:18] Voice 13: recharge and luckily in the islands trust area we have a preserve and protect mandate and that

[0:56:22] Voice 13: leads to that right lends to that and in the way that we plan but in other areas of the province

[0:56:26] Voice 13: it isn't so there's there's a lot of work and i i know that trustee patrick can can help us lament

[0:56:33] Voice 13: over this on how hard it is to do this inter-jurisdictional coordination and and like the

[0:56:40] Voice 13: you know how it's like a failure and and motion and then through that failure there are some good

[0:56:46] Voice 13: outcomes but it's just it's it's yeah you

[0:56:51] Voice 1: raise a really

[0:56:52] Voice 13: good point there and it's one that i think

[0:56:53] Voice 13: we really should tackle and it's and it is something that i am including

[0:56:57] Voice 13: in the freshwater

[0:56:58] Voice 13: sustainability strategy review rfp to to for whoever gets that rfp to to really look at that

[0:57:05] Voice 13: because it is an issue. Yeah, thanks.

[0:57:07] Voice 9: Yeah. And what frustrates me on kind of

[0:57:11] Voice 9: almost the other side of the coin is the fact that we, well, let's move on. Okay. Stefan,

[0:57:17] Voice 9: go ahead. You wanted to say something.

[0:57:21] Voice 6: Thanks chair. I have many thoughts on this

[0:57:23] Voice 6: conversation, but what my main one is that we've swayed far from the purpose of this presentation

[0:57:27] Voice 6: and I would recommend that we consider getting back.

[0:57:31] Voice 9: Okay. Let's say go on. I appreciate

[0:57:33] Voice 9: Appreciate everybody's patience.

[0:57:35] Voice 9: Freshwater footprint, Gabriola case study.

[0:57:38] Voice 9: Go ahead, Wim.

[0:57:39] Voice 13: There we go.

[0:57:40] Voice 13: We're bringing the relevance all back in.

[0:57:42] Voice 13: It was

[0:57:43] Voice 9: just in the

[0:57:43] Voice 13: wrong part of the agenda.

[0:57:47] Voice 13: There's so much good that happened with the Gabriola case study

[0:57:50] Voice 13: and a lot of learnings,

[0:57:52] Voice 13: especially on how we have coordinated with the community.

[0:57:57] Voice 13: It was kind of a difficult process

[0:58:00] Voice 13: just because we were developing the methodology

[0:58:03] Voice 13: methodology in parallel with doing the work and in parallel of going out to community and

[0:58:09] Voice 13: not really settled on the methodology when we're out in community so you know it there was some

[0:58:15] Voice 13: it was it was a case study but the case study ended up being a solid project there's nothing

[0:58:23] Voice 13: to throw out here and um and and i learned a lot and um our consultants learned a lot about

[0:58:31] Voice 13: not only about Gabriela's, you know, water sustainability outlook, but also like how

[0:58:39] Voice 13: will this land for an OCP? And the resultant of the freshwater hazard map was something that

[0:58:46] Voice 13: like I didn't include. Like my RFPs and contracts for this work is quite prescriptive. Like the

[0:58:55] Voice 13: design of this work comes from islands trust planning staff um but the outcome was kind of

[0:59:02] Voice 13: largely left up to the process of the project and so through the the the community uh engagement and

[0:59:11] Voice 13: through the through the processing of of the data and and and really um understanding that water

[0:59:19] Voice 13: water quality is as important for, for water availability as quantity is. And, and through

[0:59:26] Voice 13: that water quality lens that lent, lent us to look at not looking at each little region of the

[0:59:36] Voice 13: island as a water budget and it's plus and minus, but, but looking at the whole package of saltwater

[0:59:41] Voice 13: intrusion and, and lack of recharge and wells density and water budget to come up with this

[0:59:47] Voice 13: final layer which is freshwater hazard which is a hard term to look at hazard is not a nice term but

[0:59:54] Voice 13: but it you know there's certain areas on the islands where it is a hazard

[1:00:00] Voice 13: And we know that in the summertime, those wells do not produce and without delivered water, those families living in those houses are in dire straits and that's a hazard, right, as much as anything else.

[1:00:15] Voice 13: So that was really interesting. The trustees, or the local trust committee, I should say, has been really supportive and pushing on this and engaging their constituents, which then came back to staff with questions.

[1:00:34] Voice 13: And of course, we got direct questions from staff, but the involvement of the LTC really made this project a successful integration into the OCP.

[1:00:45] Voice 13: and um a review and and we're just going from there we um the the ltcs have the

[1:00:52] Voice 13: the maps and and i provided them with a frequently asked question um which was pretty good and of

[1:01:00] Voice 13: course there are some residents that are are disappointed that their question hasn't been

[1:01:07] Voice 13: answered but a lot of their questions were answers disguised as questions and they just didn't get

[1:01:12] Voice 13: the answer they're looking for and you know that's just always going to happen um in complex projects

[1:01:19] Voice 13: like this that deal with water that's close to everybody so yeah i'm not too sure what else to

[1:01:25] Voice 13: say you can look at the the report and um look at the frequently asked questions and um yeah i'm

[1:01:33] Voice 13: open to take any questions i'm excited that the methodology is is solid and and looks like we're

[1:01:40] Voice 13: going to be implementing it um hopefully in some of the southern gulf islands uh coming up in the

[1:01:46] Voice 13: next term so yeah it's i think this

[1:01:51] Voice 4: is our our

[1:01:52] Voice 13: best our best approach like it's it i'll leave

[1:01:57] Voice 13: it to director cermak it's like what else can we do like it with except like looking deeply at

[1:02:04] Voice 13: But specific problems like, say, redistribution of a lake's water licenses means a water sustainability plan.

[1:02:14] Voice 13: Like there's a lot more that, of course, we can do as an organization, but a regional desktop study that has a small amount of community engagement and boots on the ground.

[1:02:24] Voice 13: How does that lean into a official community plan?

[1:02:28] Voice 13: And I think that we kind of found that through this methodology.

[1:02:32] Voice 13: So, yeah, thanks.

[1:02:34] Voice 9: thank you thank you william uh trustee patrick oh

[1:02:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): william knows me if there's water i of course

[1:02:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): have questions i have a couple but i'll start with the first one um

[1:02:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): you just talked about the word hazard and the use of the word have fresh water hazard area and you

[1:02:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): know i of course i did some research who in the world calls at that no one has a fresh water

[1:02:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): hazard area. I do understand groundwater in the islands is a precious resource. Some islands

[1:03:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): more than others. Gabriel is challenging. But I want to ask, why did we choose the word

[1:03:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): freshwater hazard area rather than maybe freshwater resource vulnerability or something of that

[1:03:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): that nature why did we use freshwater hazard yeah

[1:03:30] Voice 13: thanks for this and and the the term did

[1:03:33] Voice 13: come from our consultants like they provided me like a preliminary has it didn't look like it

[1:03:40] Voice 13: looks now it looks like smashed glass like like the they were midway through their methodology

[1:03:46] Voice 13: I was like hazard and I said the same thing what about vulnerability they're like well

[1:03:52] Voice 13: well, this is the combination of vulnerabilities. I was like, okay, so it's like a risk, you know,

[1:03:57] Voice 13: but it's a combination of risk. And then I thought more about it. And, you know, I love

[1:04:02] Voice 13: Einsteinian thought experiments. I did a thought experiment of like why hazard and the hazard is

[1:04:08] Voice 13: ours. The hazard is not to the existing user in that space. The hazard is to the decisions of the

[1:04:19] Voice 13: the ltc so in those areas where there's high hazard and if the ltc chooses to increase density

[1:04:26] Voice 13: in those areas that hazard is is of the ltc not of the existing user like we're not going out there

[1:04:34] Voice 13: and and and it's it's not like a you know a red light and and there's an emergency we have to go

[1:04:41] Voice 13: to these hazard areas and and and do work right now the hazard is to the decisions of the that

[1:04:47] Voice 13: it come out of the official community plan so that's i i'm not saying i'm on the fence with it

[1:04:53] Voice 13: i i find it very i find it an awkward term and i find it kind of an aggressive term but maybe

[1:05:01] Voice 13: that's what like maybe it's it's like the first look at it's like moratorium right when's the

[1:05:07] Voice 13: first time you heard north salt spring moratorium and they turned off the bulk water at at central

[1:05:14] Voice 13: fire hall and everyone who was grabbing water was cut off it was a real deal right and that

[1:05:20] Voice 13: was a bad word and and we're trying to get away from it and it's you know maybe it's the right

[1:05:25] Voice 13: word for north salt spring it's hard to say right so it i think it is it is one of those things that

[1:05:33] Voice 13: hazard can increase with increased risk and vulnerability and so with the increasing of

[1:05:39] Voice 13: of of climate and increasing of of or uh like land use management in say private managed forest lands

[1:05:48] Voice 13: that in that hazard can increase so in that case it's a hard word i i and i appreciate the question

[1:05:54] Voice 13: and i see that trustee elliott's put up her hand and and i and i wanted to get into this with the

[1:05:58] Voice 13: gabriel ltc to because nobody's really commented on it until now right like on the word hazard and

[1:06:04] Voice 13: And the map has gone through a few looks at the LTC through several reports, right?

[1:06:11] Voice 13: And because, yeah, I'm not going to say that I'm super confident this is the word, but

[1:06:15] Voice 13: it is one of those awkward words that maybe is extremely fitting for what we're trying

[1:06:20] Voice 13: to do with this work.

[1:06:21] Voice 13: So, yeah.

[1:06:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): Well, if I could follow up, I think, you know, it's difficult because I do sit on

[1:06:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): Gabriola and, you know, we're the pilot and we're looking at it in terms of the OCP that's

[1:06:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): being done on Gabriola and we'll hear Trustee Elliott in a moment.

[1:06:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): But in this committee's case, we're looking at a pilot that's going to expand to other islands.

[1:06:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): So this is the appropriate place to kind of poke at the name, not at Gabriola, who's trying to receive, you know, a pile of information coming at them.

[1:06:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): This is just one little item.

[1:06:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): So I would encourage us to look at, you know, I think of you owning a lot in that area.

[1:06:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): Now you've been told you're in a freshwater hazard.

[1:06:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): Does that mean that I'm going to be

[1:06:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): washed out by a flood or a landslide or, you know, what is hazard?

[1:07:04] Voice 1: It has

[1:07:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): a real connotation in BC. If it is about us making decisions, maybe it is a freshwater risk area or groundwater risk. We should be maybe specific, more specific and use the word risk. I don't know. I don't know. But I think that's something we should probably batter around a bit before we do expand it to other islands.

[1:07:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): and

[1:07:27] Voice 13: while I still have go ahead

[1:07:29] Voice 13: sorry just Patrick and with that like we're not through third reading

[1:07:32] Voice 13: yet right so I maybe if you if you make a if you want to make a resolution on on on this somehow

[1:07:42] Voice 13: to to kind of workshop that it's possible that it could go back to the Gabriel LTC and and be

[1:07:49] Voice 13: changed like I think it does fit for Gabriel but like can you see that fitting for like freshwater

[1:07:54] Voice 13: water hazard for salt spring it'd be like maybe maybe not right like the the seems like the name

[1:08:00] Voice 13: fit there but i agree with you because hazard it's like what is fresh water has is a flood zone that

[1:08:05] Voice 13: i mean right there that stopped me in my tracks because we're not talking about flood zone right

[1:08:09] Voice 13: we're talking about like water sustainability from wells really um because especially when

[1:08:15] Voice 13: if we do fresh water footprint on salt spring the the first go at it would be at a scope would be

[1:08:21] Voice 13: the surface water sources because we don't really have control over that um so so yeah no that's a

[1:08:27] Voice 13: good point i i and i appreciate the conversation because it has been something that i've been

[1:08:32] Voice 13: you know like balancing from from the deliverables of gw solutions and i just kind of

[1:08:39] Voice 13: kept that flowing through just because it seemed like it that word never really stopped the flow of

[1:08:45] Voice 13: of information from our consultant through our processing into LTC but I agree with you it's

[1:08:51] Voice 13: something that we should talk about the for for the general methodology thank you

[1:08:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): and I'll put

[1:08:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): myself back on the list for my second question sure okay

[1:09:01] Voice 11: uh

[1:09:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): trustee Elliot go ahead

[1:09:04] Voice 9: hi thanks

[1:09:06] Voice 11: for this conversation um yeah it's come up a couple of times um in trustee it's and I have

[1:09:14] Voice 11: I've held about 10 or 12 drop-ins just where people can ask questions.

[1:09:21] Voice 11: The focus on the freshwater footprint wasn't really central until, I would say, three weeks ago.

[1:09:31] Voice 11: And all of a sudden, we've had a lot of focus on water.

[1:09:33] Voice 11: And I've been raising this over and over and over again.

[1:09:36] Voice 11: But now residents are turning themselves to particularly the MAP, the deliverable that they produce, the freshwater hazard area, because there are a number of water-related situations, a proposed, well, I won't talk about them, but that are in those areas.

[1:09:59] Voice 11: And so residents who are concerned about water are saying, well, look, the science says this is a problem area and shouldn't be or should be developed with care or shouldn't be maybe developed at all.

[1:10:13] Voice 11: I think there's some nuance maybe needed, and perhaps this is further work, because from, well, not anecdotal, but the most vocal water security champions are the ones who are living in residential areas that you cannot put a well in anymore.

[1:10:34] Voice 11: more. And sometimes, in some cases, it's been the case for 40 years, you know, Tinson Point,

[1:10:41] Voice 11: Barrie Point, there's just, there is no water, there's no groundwater, it is a hazard area. It's

[1:10:46] Voice 11: not, but it's not a hazard if you require rainwater harvesting systems, let's say. So the question is,

[1:10:53] Voice 11: which areas are truly hazardous for development? Which are areas for conservation? And this is

[1:11:01] Voice 11: where one resident at least has put forward the idea that maybe this should be

[1:11:05] Voice 11: termed a freshwater conservation area

[1:11:08] Voice 11: or map. But there's some areas

[1:11:12] Voice 11: that there is no groundwater. The Lock and Far

[1:11:17] Voice 11: little tiny subdivision right in the middle of the

[1:11:21] Voice 11: island, I think there's 30 lots and they all have

[1:11:24] Voice 11: cisterns. Nobody's got a well. So they're a very real

[1:11:30] Voice 11: scenarios that would seem to say that for a responsible local government charged with land

[1:11:38] Voice 11: planning you should not be directing that development happens there it is a hazard if

[1:11:44] Voice 11: you put a house if you put additional development there is it a hazard from natural disaster

[1:11:50] Voice 11: happening maybe not but in unless you put mitigating criteria for how development is to happen

[1:11:58] Voice 11: been requiring fresh rainwater harvesting such as we're talking about in the OCP then then you're

[1:12:05] Voice 11: not really doing your job as a local government so I can kind of understand from their perspective

[1:12:09] Voice 11: and from the local government perspective like that's what parts 14 and 15 say is you're supposed

[1:12:15] Voice 11: to you know protect development from hazards so I think there's some nuance like we could probably

[1:12:21] Voice 11: tease it out I think there are areas of extreme high risk for additional development there's

[1:12:26] Voice 11: areas that conservation and much care is needed. And I would look forward to sort of additional

[1:12:35] Voice 11: iterations as this goes. I think, and I think the work's going to stand the test of time. We really,

[1:12:41] Voice 11: it's going to keep developing and deepening. One of the big keys, and I'll finish on this note,

[1:12:50] Voice 11: is, you know, the consultants really identified the gaps in data collection, which need to be

[1:12:55] Voice 11: ground truth in our community and what our community is talking about right now is how do

[1:13:01] Voice 11: we get community monitoring networks going um do we need well watchers in more observation wells

[1:13:08] Voice 11: volunteer wells and they're really um motivated by this there was a water forum last night community

[1:13:15] Voice 11: led uh by a um a dialogue group and about 45 people attended there's a lot of consistent

[1:13:23] Voice 11: feedback about yeah we just shouldn't put more development development in these hazard areas

[1:13:30] Voice 11: and so yeah it's been useful it's been really helpful to have a map that people can look at

[1:13:37] Voice 11: i think we do need to work on the nomenclature and terminology there's still a lot of education

[1:13:43] Voice 11: to go so i think um this is a great conversation to have thanks yeah

[1:13:49] Voice 13: thanks trustee elliot so just

[1:13:51] Voice 13: to comment like yeah i and you know thinking back to just the conversation that we have with trustee

[1:13:58] Voice 13: um patrick is that yeah nomenclature can be worked on but um i'm 100 confident on the map

[1:14:08] Voice 13: like that's that's what we got from our consultant and they provided us raw data and then we then

[1:14:16] Voice 13: And planning staff took that raw data and made it into something that can be an official community plan as either a scheduled map or something more.

[1:14:25] Voice 13: I'm not sure yet.

[1:14:29] Voice 13: And that playbook's been done before in Galleon, New Island.

[1:14:33] Voice 13: We got the raw groundwater recharge data from GW Solutions and planning staff took it in and we made the DPA map and it went through third reading and now it's in the official community plan.

[1:14:42] Voice 13: So that's the playbook.

[1:14:44] Voice 13: I can't change their data.

[1:14:46] Voice 13: right because that that's what we paid them to do um but your other so yes i mean those those areas

[1:14:56] Voice 13: even though they could be more or less like hazardous or whatnot we we collapse them all

[1:15:02] Voice 13: together like it's if it was a hazard it's in if it wasn't a hazard area so and then and then

[1:15:07] Voice 13: filtering with like filtering out parks and just like obvious weirdness but um the the the one

[1:15:13] Voice 13: one thing that that you do really have right is that we can't stop on this right and we need to

[1:15:20] Voice 13: do monitoring and and and and there needs to be a consistent increase in in our knowledge and

[1:15:30] Voice 13: water literacy of this work because we have new tools and and and the communities like you know

[1:15:38] Voice 13: like how we were like you're saying like everyone kind of turned on to this three weeks ago or

[1:15:42] Voice 13: whatever when um and and so it's great that there's talk in the community and and then that's

[1:15:48] Voice 13: engagement and that that's that's really what we need um what i'm not really thinking of doing is

[1:15:54] Voice 13: going in and you know changing the map that's before you just before first reading but i i i

[1:15:59] Voice 13: definitely hear what you're saying that that we need more information uh on this work and just

[1:16:05] Voice 13: the one thing about like uh

[1:16:06] Voice 9: william let me

[1:16:07] Voice 9: interrupt you a little bit we we do need to move on and

[1:16:10] Voice 9: thank you I do take your comments but we need to keep it fairly tight because there are the lineup

[1:16:16] Voice 9: of people with other questions okay so hold yourself in readiness to answer more questions

[1:16:21] Voice 9: and you might raise your voice a bit you've gone a little bit quiet um Sam trustee Broadwick over

[1:16:27] Voice 9: to you yeah yeah

[1:16:29] Voice 14: and I'll be very brief I mean I think a lot of this has been said but I wanted

[1:16:32] Voice 14: to just sort of like slightly retread that ground in terms of um nomenclature um this is this is i

[1:16:42] Voice 14: mean just inherently one of those things where it may very well from our perspective and i i

[1:16:46] Voice 14: really like the way you characterize it william in terms of it is a hazard to us in a planning

[1:16:52] Voice 14: capacity um i think that's that's that is that is an appropriate way to look at it um unfortunately

[1:16:58] Voice 14: we are the government which means that everyone is going to misinterpret what we say even if we

[1:17:02] Voice 14: We mean it with the best possible intentions.

[1:17:04] Voice 14: And even if we categorize it exactly as we want to, um, because, and I, I'm speaking

[1:17:11] Voice 14: as someone who gets very frustrated with euphemistic language from official bodies all the time.

[1:17:16] Voice 14: Um, I, in this instance, because this is a, an internal hazard and is a hazard that is

[1:17:23] Voice 14: focused inwards towards us.

[1:17:25] Voice 14: I think it would be useful to have a designation that is a little bit more clearly speaking to us and is not going to immediately raise alarm bells for, you know, anyone who's in these areas.

[1:17:43] Voice 14: because we'll you know i think it's i think it's and i think what trustee patrick was saying in

[1:17:49] Voice 14: terms of like you know maybe this is a conservation area or maybe this is somewhere where we need to

[1:17:54] Voice 14: show a little more care um that's uh um that concept obviously is a shock i think sometimes

[1:18:01] Voice 14: to new new islanders um but anyone who's been here for any length of time realizes the the

[1:18:08] Voice 14: the importance of it and, and, and understands that.

[1:18:10] Voice 14: And I don't think that'll be controversial if you put a hazard on it,

[1:18:14] Voice 14: there's going to be a certain cohort of people who, who really, you know,

[1:18:17] Voice 14: have trouble with that. And yeah, I mean, I, my well is

[1:18:25] Voice 14: awful. I've got very little water and it's an old property.

[1:18:29] Voice 14: And as we moved here a year ago and it's yeah, there's, there's issues.

[1:18:35] Voice 14: So I'm very cognizant of that. And I appreciate that it's something we need to treat extremely seriously. And yeah, I mean, and yeah, just to gain to sort of piggyback on what Trustee Elliott was saying, like, I think that making sure that we're ground truthing our data from local sources, and setting up networks and, you know, scientifically rigorous ways of maintaining that data is really important.

[1:19:05] Voice 14: and i think that's something that i'd love to see us find ways to do to a greater degree um and and

[1:19:11] Voice 14: yeah you know set up a network of people who can support the work that you do um in in sort of

[1:19:15] Voice 14: maintaining these these layers um but yeah anyways thank

[1:19:20] Voice 9: you sam okay i'm just going to go to trustee

[1:19:23] Voice 9: graham first uh trustee patrick yeah go ahead trustee graham

[1:19:26] Voice 5: thank you chair this is very quick

[1:19:28] Voice 5: um but i was the chair of gabriel when staff presented a hazard map it was to do with um

[1:19:34] Voice 5: steep slopes. That filled the hall with very, very angry people. And in fact, it was so

[1:19:40] Voice 5: contentious, one trustee who sat on the Gabrielia Local Trust Committee did not want to attend that

[1:19:45] Voice 5: meeting. So the word hazard has unintended consequences. People who are buying or looking

[1:19:52] Voice 5: at buying or selling in an area that is labeled hazard, that may cost them a tremendous amount of

[1:20:00] Voice 5: of money or the opportunity to even sell.

[1:20:02] Voice 5: So think really deeply about using a term like hazard.

[1:20:06] Voice 5: And as Trustee Elliot explained,

[1:20:09] Voice 5: there are lots on Gabriola where there is no water

[1:20:12] Voice 5: and the property owner simply put a cistern.

[1:20:16] Voice 5: And so, I mean, I think hazard is the incorrect term.

[1:20:20] Voice 5: Thank you.

[1:20:21] Voice 9: Thank you, Trustee Graham.

[1:20:23] Voice 9: Okay, Trustee Patrick.

[1:20:24] Voice 9: All right, my second question, I don't mean,

[1:20:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): it's more of a point to think about.

[1:20:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): Gabriela, when you had the Q&As, I asked you about ownership of the various models and so forth related to this, and you explained that the consultant had developed some of their own methodologies that they owned for doing the work that was done.

[1:20:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): My concern was that this project was intended and is intended to be a pilot to work out what it is in moving forward and being reproduced on many other islands.

[1:20:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): So I think when we do, when Trust Council pays and sets up and authorizes a pilot, that I think it's really important that we have to ask those questions about what knowledge, tools, intellectual property and documentation must the Islands Trust own at the end of the project so that we can, you know, efficiently replicate the work, independently review the work and competitively procure it in the future.

[1:21:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): So it's more of a comments, I think, is important when we do pilots that really set them up for replication.

[1:21:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yeah,

[1:21:34] Voice 13: just through the chair.

[1:21:36] Voice 13: I thought about this last time when you asked, Trustee Patrick, and I think I have a good analogy, right?

[1:21:46] Voice 13: That Islands Trust is the architect of these projects and through blueprints, we should be able to build the house again.

[1:21:53] Voice 13: But we're not taking the hammer from the carpenter.

[1:21:57] Voice 13: So, so that, that said, like there, there obviously is a lot of tools that, that consultants have that we don't as staff and that's why we procure. But the, I agree with you that the, the contract and the request for proposal should be detailed enough that, that we get all the blueprints.

[1:22:19] Voice 13: And, and I, and I think for, for this, we, we have there's, but it was a methodology

[1:22:26] Voice 13: in progress.

[1:22:27] Voice 13: So there was, there was actually more that we got that we weren't expecting.

[1:22:32] Voice 13: And then, and then likely a little bit less than we were expecting.

[1:22:36] Voice 13: And, and so, but, but I, I like, I agree with you.

[1:22:40] Voice 13: And I think that the next island that we do the freshwater footprint on that regardless

[1:22:44] Voice 13: regardless of what water resource consultant gets it,

[1:22:47] Voice 13: that they will look at the Gabriola work and then bring all that forward.

[1:22:52] Voice 13: And then I think by the, then it's not a case study, it's an actual work.

[1:22:55] Voice 13: And repeatability with new information will be baked into that contract.

[1:23:02] Voice 13: So I, yeah, I appreciate that.

[1:23:05] Voice 13: But it is difficult because we won't be able to do this on our own in-house.

[1:23:10] Voice 13: Like we have to procure again.

[1:23:11] Voice 13: And so it'd be up to say if GW Solutions didn't get it and it was bad,

[1:23:14] Voice 13: you know urban systems or stantec or whomever they would have to open their own tool set and and

[1:23:21] Voice 13: hopefully um work on the project and and engage the methodology and and successfully deliver back

[1:23:28] Voice 13: to us and so yeah

[1:23:29] Voice 9: just a follow-up to that we own the data so we could make agreements where we um

[1:23:36] Voice 9: say that groundwater solutions must provide a data model to urban planners or whoever

[1:23:45] Voice 9: in a format that's some kind of open source, so that they can import the data easily.

[1:23:52] Voice 9: But I'll leave it at that for the moment. I have a separate question.

[1:23:57] Voice 9: I have a very specific question. But then I just wondered about the word scarcity instead of

[1:24:04] Voice 9: hazard um which means having limited resources to meet human wants and needs so anyway i just

[1:24:11] Voice 9: throw that out there groundwater scarcity um not too scary and it doesn't uh maybe alarm people

[1:24:20] Voice 9: and bring them to um meetings bearing pitchforks but anyway um the specific question i have is that

[1:24:28] Voice 9: I went into the Gabriola frequently asked questions and I found one that actually said that

[1:24:37] Voice 9: the, let me just read it here, the question, the answer was that the groundwater availability

[1:24:43] Voice 9: assessments in the Southern Gulf Islands, the lessons learned from that especially about water

[1:24:52] Voice 9: demand assumptions and uncertainty were carried into the Gabriola work. I have a very strong

[1:25:00] Voice 9: interest in that work and especially about the water demand assumptions and uncertainty and I

[1:25:05] Voice 9: wonder how you changed that. What are the specifics about how you changed what you brought into the

[1:25:12] Voice 9: Gabriola work from the Southern Gulf Islands and I believe that was also groundwater solutions so

[1:25:18] Voice 9: So they were very well, sort of in a good position with respect to understanding what needed to happen.

[1:25:26] Voice 9: So over to you, Liam.

[1:25:28] Voice 13: Have you read the report?

[1:25:30] Voice 9: I haven't read the full report.

[1:25:31] Voice 13: Let's start there.

[1:25:33] Voice 13: And then we can get into that.

[1:25:35] Voice 13: So

[1:25:35] Voice 9: on what page do you have the report?

[1:25:38] Voice 9: Do you have the information about this?

[1:25:41] Voice 9: It's a holistic

[1:25:42] Voice 13: report, right?

[1:25:44] Voice 13: Right. So you have to really like if you want that answer, the answer is in the report.

[1:25:48] Voice 13: Right. Like I could like I can give you Cole's notes here, but, you know, like it's OK.

[1:25:54] Voice 9: I don't look at the report, but I'd expect it to be very specific about the water.

[1:25:58] Voice 13: It's not going

[1:25:58] Voice 13: to be specific about Southern Gulf Islands. Right.

[1:26:01] Voice 13: But it's it's just like any it's just like the groundwater recharge methodology. Right.

[1:26:07] Voice 13: We started on Salt Spring Island in 2019 as a as a case study and we learned a lot.

[1:26:11] Voice 13: we had a lot of errors there was recharge on beaches like we it was there was a lot of things

[1:26:17] Voice 13: that were right and a lot of things that were wrong and then that that that methodology went

[1:26:22] Voice 13: through three different phases until we have it now which is what we settled on and that's the

[1:26:27] Voice 13: same with with the water availability we like the southern gulf islands groundwater available

[1:26:33] Voice 13: system went

[1:26:34] Voice 13: too far it was an add-on to our recharge mapping project and we were we were

[1:26:39] Voice 13: we are assessing methodology and and one of and a lot of it is good and a lot of the work that

[1:26:46] Voice 13: went that was done there with staff and gw solutions is has been implemented in in the

[1:26:53] Voice 13: freshwater footprint and and the thing is we heard you with with water you i mean i've i heard you

[1:27:01] Voice 13: before you're a trustee and i heard you for a whole term about water demand issues on parks

[1:27:07] Voice 13: parks and protected areas and this over demand thing and and that was that was a conversation

[1:27:12] Voice 13: we had with gw solutions up front so it was there was a lot of colloquial like like project work

[1:27:19] Voice 13: that's like no trustee is privy to when we have staff to consultant just like discussions this

[1:27:26] Voice 13: is the course of a project and then and then i i we i was implicit that we need to focus on water

[1:27:33] Voice 13: demand so we even brought in a social science component to that of water use surveys and we

[1:27:39] Voice 13: learned a lot from that so going forward that water use survey and that community engagement

[1:27:43] Voice 13: part of the like if we went to saturn and did this it would be a major part of the freshwater

[1:27:49] Voice 13: footprint project right like to really nail down what's going on with water demand because that's

[1:27:56] Voice 13: human nature and condition and and the actual development of the islands right so so we heard

[1:28:02] Voice 13: heard that so i'm sure if you go through like the water demand section is well labeled and okay and

[1:28:08] Voice 13: you'll i'm sure that will help um and then yeah if you have more

[1:28:12] Voice 13: questions after that let me know but

[1:28:13] Voice 13: but i just want to say like we we heard like like i've heard you right and and and we really

[1:28:19] Voice 13: tried to because i mean i'm not saying that we got it right in the southern gulf islands

[1:28:24] Voice 13: like over

[1:28:24] Voice 9: and over it can change that's fine

[1:28:27] Voice 9: i i i am um you know that's fine i'll go and read about

[1:28:32] Voice 9: the water demand assumptions because i think that's a key element of all of this work thank

[1:28:37] Voice 9: you william over to you stefan go ahead thank

[1:28:42] Voice 6: you as i hear the uh sort of close to conclusion of

[1:28:45] Voice 6: these two items seven one seven two i just wanted like in a public meeting really thank uh senior

[1:28:52] Voice 6: Senior Freshwater Specialist, William Shulbaugh.

[1:28:55] Voice 6: We're translating almost a decade of work into policy,

[1:29:00] Voice 6: which has been the focus that we all know.

[1:29:02] Voice 6: It was an issue before all of us joined the trust in one way or another.

[1:29:06] Voice 6: It's an issue now, and it'll be an issue when we leave.

[1:29:09] Voice 6: And this is a wonderful moment, at least from my perspective,

[1:29:12] Voice 6: whereby we're translating this research into actual policy work.

[1:29:17] Voice 6: And I just want to celebrate that for a moment and just say thanks.

[1:29:20] Voice 6: I really it's makes me very happy so thank you

[1:29:25] Voice 9: thanks Stefan that's great

[1:29:30] Voice 6: okay

[1:29:31] Voice 9: any further questions on this piece of work okay with that it's really interesting and it was

[1:29:39] Voice 9: good to hear from Trustee Elliott as well and I will go and read it in full and especially that

[1:29:45] Voice 9: section and I'm sure I'll have questions thank you William no

[1:29:49] Voice 13: I and yeah Trustee Bullen I or

[1:29:51] Voice 13: or Trevor, yeah, I think I didn't,

[1:29:55] Voice 13: maybe in the frequently asked questions

[1:29:56] Voice 13: I talked about water demand, but that's kind of,

[1:30:00] Voice 13: that frequently asked questions, a living document. And, and so I'll look at that again.

[1:30:03] Voice 13: And if it's not like, you know, maybe it deserves a whole like, like section. And so I'll, I'll dive

[1:30:10] Voice 13: into that, but yeah, feel free to look at the report. And then if you have like any side

[1:30:16] Voice 13: questions, just send me an email because I'm not going to say that that was like the trustee

[1:30:22] Voice 13: Bolin section, but like, I, we, we didn't ignore it because of your persistence. I can assure you

[1:30:28] Voice 13: that

[1:30:29] Voice 9: thank you thank you my work is done thank you um okay so we're going to move on now to

[1:30:35] Voice 9: um so okay the last thing on the agenda with respect to uh fresh water so um can you give

[1:30:43] Voice 9: us an update or explain where we are with respect to and the review that was uh being organized

[1:30:50] Voice 9: thank you uh

[1:30:53] Voice 13: yeah so just uh finishing off the rfp now and i'll go to uh derrick um or the director

[1:31:00] Voice 13: of finance no i don't know derrick's term yeah um anyway

[1:31:08] Voice 6: that's an employee service thank you

[1:31:11] Voice 13: there we go um i knew that there was more to it um yeah and and so it'll go it'll go to him and

[1:31:16] Voice 13: then and then he'll steward it through um procurement with us and it's great because

[1:31:21] Voice 13: he was our procurement guy at the province before he came over so that should go swimmingly and and

[1:31:28] Voice 13: um yeah it's a little bit delayed i just really wanted the freshwater footprint to resolve itself

[1:31:33] Voice 13: to this point before we asked for a review because really the freshwater footprint is the

[1:31:40] Voice 13: like crown jewel of the freshwater sustainability strategy right now and um as a project but really

[1:31:47] Voice 13: the it should be the coordination piece that that drives the strategy going forward and like that

[1:31:53] Voice 13: has been you know like there's a lot of there's still a lot of work to be done on this for halfway

[1:31:58] Voice 13: through so like just based on all that um i think now is a good time i i'm pretty confident with

[1:32:04] Voice 13: with the rfp and well i'm sure we're going to get some okay yeah

[1:32:07] Voice 9: so it's going to derrick and it'll

[1:32:10] Voice 9: be shepherded through the system then it

[1:32:12] Voice 13: should be um yeah it should be yeah definitely will be

[1:32:16] Voice 13: live by the next rpc meeting like we might even have

[1:32:19] Voice 13: it closed by then yeah okay great thanks

[1:32:22] Voice 13: okay

[1:32:22] Voice 9: well um thanks for all your work i'm looking forward to seeing the freshwater atlas as well

[1:32:29] Voice 9: that'll be great how soon do you think we might get a link to that just roughly like mid mid

[1:32:35] Voice 13: august yeah

[1:32:36] Voice 9: okay fair enough so three weeks time or so thereabouts okay thanks everybody um so it

[1:32:44] Voice 9: It is 11.40, and we're now going to jump into another kind of big chunk.

[1:32:51] Voice 9: Would you like to take a break and or an early lunch?

[1:32:55] Voice 9: So hands up for a short break.

[1:33:00] Voice 9: Okay.

[1:33:00] Voice 9: And would anybody, hands up for somebody who'd like to take an early lunch?

[1:33:08] Voice 9: No.

[1:33:08] Voice 9: So let's take a short, a very short break.

[1:33:12] Voice 14: All I need to do is just refresh my coffee.

[1:33:14] Voice 14: So if people are really, like, game to keep going, I'm happy to do that.

[1:33:18] Voice 14: but okay

[1:33:19] Voice 9: anybody got any strong feelings on keep just plowing on and okay let's just take a quick

[1:33:29] Voice 9: break 10 minutes would be good for me too okay okay everybody's

[1:44:22] Voice 9: back thank you very much um right

[1:44:26] Voice 9: item number 7.3 do you want to go ahead with that will you uh stefan introduce it and uh

[1:44:33] Voice 9: give us a briefing thank you thank

[1:44:37] Voice 6: you chair my i'll be quite brief despite the volume that it

[1:44:42] Voice 6: presents in the agenda the so the purpose of this of course is for forwarding the deliverables from

[1:44:49] Voice 6: the ecc the e triple c funded biologist to trust council so that the council can receive them and

[1:44:56] Voice 6: endorse their operational use these products that you have before you directly and indirectly

[1:45:02] Voice 6: advanced trust council strategic plan initiative 324 to monitor progress of

[1:45:08] Voice 6: protection of ecosystem health in all land use planning decisions. The

[1:45:13] Voice 6: deliverables before you are produced, they produce a, how do I say it, like a

[1:45:18] Voice 6: suite of technical tools. The species of risk state of the islands report is well

[1:45:26] Voice 6: as it exactly sounds it's a there was a look at the species at risk and the

[1:45:31] Voice 6: biologist produced it in a table list to say what their status is and she further reviewed each

[1:45:37] Voice 6: individual local trust areas official community plans and development permit area to to assess

[1:45:43] Voice 6: if they're actually just doing what they're supposed to do to protect the species at risk

[1:45:47] Voice 6: i did take over the sort of this why it took a little bit while the writing of the regional

[1:45:53] Voice 6: perspective the opening report and i sort of restructured a little bit in the back so it

[1:45:58] Voice 6: it was easy to for each local trust area to pluck out that information right so i made it so it's

[1:46:03] Voice 6: like oh i like page 22 to 24 type thing um i can tell you that we have communications and morgana

[1:46:10] Voice 6: is working with a specialist to beautify the product if there's putting in you know pictures

[1:46:15] Voice 6: and colors and all that kind of stuff so it'll be ready for trust council in a more um

[1:46:21] Voice 6: forward-facing friendly document but for purposes here today you have the

[1:46:25] Voice 6: meat and potatoes version, the black and white text. There were some questions from the Trust

[1:46:32] Voice 6: Programs Committee and specifically from individual trustees about the difference in

[1:46:37] Voice 6: the results, like the methodologies presented there. And there are some questions about

[1:46:42] Voice 6: the results and comparable to other products. And I am not able to answer that question

[1:46:47] Voice 6: as I'm not a biologist. So I have a hard time diving into the methodologies and sort of

[1:46:53] Voice 6: justifying why this produced this report, why this produced another report, but I can return

[1:46:58] Voice 6: to that point at the end. But it is important to note that, you know, this report was done by a

[1:47:04] Voice 6: biologist. It holds her stamp on it, or actually it's not stamped by her, but it was done by her.

[1:47:10] Voice 6: And yeah, we sort of stand by that report. The other information, of course, is the updated list

[1:47:17] Voice 6: layers that she presented. She provided that updated information into that product. You

[1:47:23] Voice 6: talked about the last meeting, so I won't go a little bit more on about that other than to say

[1:47:29] Voice 6: regional planning committee passed resolution for an RFD to go to trust council and staff are

[1:47:34] Voice 6: hoping that this RFD sort of helps satisfy that direction. So it opens up the chance for discussion

[1:47:39] Voice 6: at trust council regarding that product. A model natural environmental development permit area

[1:47:45] Voice 6: In the Local Government Act, protection of the natural environment, its ecosystem, biological diversity is a permitted development permit area.

[1:47:54] Voice 6: And this is meant to help start that conversation.

[1:47:57] Voice 6: It's certainly not meant to say, please cut and paste for every development, pardon me, for every local trust area, this exact thing.

[1:48:04] Voice 6: It's meant to provide the template for that so that they can have further discussions.

[1:48:10] Voice 6: She also provided a terms of relevance for environmental assessment reports.

[1:48:13] Voice 6: courts. I note that this was reasonably draft, so there's more work to be done here. And so I made

[1:48:20] Voice 6: sure to have draft watermark in the background. And internally, we can fine tune a lot of that

[1:48:25] Voice 6: stuff. And of course, she was involved quite heavily with the Denman and Gabriola official

[1:48:31] Voice 6: community plan wordings. And of course, that's where some of the draft or DPA language came from.

[1:48:38] Voice 6: Although I understand that they may not be implemented this go around in the OCP amendments.

[1:48:42] Voice 6: minutes. I'm not 100% sure I'm not. But they're all technical inputs, really. So that's where

[1:48:49] Voice 6: the resolution comes from in the recommendation is for Trust Council's endorsement of these tools

[1:48:55] Voice 6: and for staff to implement them. As per the report, it shows kind of who would be doing what

[1:49:00] Voice 6: when, the regional planning team applying some of the technical information when they're drafting

[1:49:06] Voice 6: drafting OCPs, and the current planning team using the terms of reference when reviewing

[1:49:10] Voice 6: reports come in regards to applications, as well, of course, the communications improvements

[1:49:17] Voice 6: regarding LIST. We had a plan with that before and see what Trust Council says about that.

[1:49:23] Voice 6: So overall, all these tools really do effectively move or advance the evidence-based methodology,

[1:49:32] Voice 6: which of course planners are beholden to, and that is to help us make evidence-based

[1:49:37] Voice 6: recommendations to the LTCs, which was the purpose of all this work. And they also respond,

[1:49:43] Voice 6: like I said, to past RPC concerns about LIST. As I talked yesterday briefly at Trust Programs

[1:49:51] Voice 6: Committee, fortunately I can't answer those biological questions or too much about the

[1:49:56] Voice 6: species at risk. I wasn't involved in the research and I certainly am not a registered

[1:50:01] Voice 6: professional biologist so I'm kind of stuck unable to answer those questions and even though I've

[1:50:07] Voice 6: tried to reach out to the biologist I haven't actually been able to get a hold of her so

[1:50:12] Voice 6: I don't know if she's really enjoying her new provincial work reviewing repaired area reports

[1:50:18] Voice 6: or if I'm just kind of have an old contact I don't know yeah so staff's recommendation really

[1:50:25] Voice 6: is to forward this report and its deliverables to trust council for the trust council's endorsement

[1:50:31] Voice 6: for staff to start using them oh and of course i should mention the second resolution which is

[1:50:37] Voice 6: builds on this and staff are requesting that their rpc request staff to draft a business

[1:50:42] Voice 6: case with options for retaining ongoing biological expertise i think it shows the early deliverables

[1:50:49] Voice 6: but it doesn't help us necessarily implement them all as robustly as we'd like to and don't get me

[1:50:54] Voice 6: wrong i fully heard trust council say no new staff i'm not proposing new staff that would not be a

[1:51:00] Voice 6: proposal, I would look at other options, whatever that is. I have a bunch of thoughts in my head,

[1:51:05] Voice 6: but I'd like sort of your blessing to at least draft a business case for your consideration at

[1:51:10] Voice 6: the next RPC meeting before having that journey to Trust Council. And that's my very brief summary.

[1:51:19] Voice 9: Thank you, Stefan. My only comment is, I have other comments, but in general, I look at this

[1:51:27] Voice 9: work. And I think that Patricia achieved a lot while she was there. I particularly like the

[1:51:35] Voice 9: terms of reference, that approach to kind of standardization. So thank you. Over to everybody

[1:51:41] Voice 9: else. I open the floor.

[1:51:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): Go ahead, Trustee Patrick. Oh, it's me. I'm the talker.

[1:51:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): No, I mean, I'm grateful. I think the work that she did and her expertise in riparian areas

[1:51:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): was extremely clear and helpful.

[1:52:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): And that is, I know a fairly significant number

[1:52:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): of the reports we get are related to riparian areas,

[1:52:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): but they're not just riparian areas.

[1:52:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): We've gotten marine and shoreline reports

[1:52:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): and various packages of applications,

[1:52:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): terrestrial and species at risk and other things.

[1:52:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): And so I guess my comment is more about number two.

[1:52:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I would encourage you to think of the complexity of biology and that we need a wide range of biological expertise.

[1:52:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): And so it's probably more of a firm that has an extents of expertise that could be available to independently review reports.

[1:52:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): They would be taking themselves out of any, you know, potential working for applicants. So it's important that you consider that because I think that would be quite useful because I think of myself as a trustee and probably many of you have sat with a permit for somebody's asking to do X.

[1:53:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): And in that package is a report from a biologist that's quite technical in nature, and you're having to approve, are you okay with this being, you know, 15 meters from the setback to the sea instead of 30?

[1:53:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): You know, so I think having that independent review that says, yeah, this report was viable, it's reliable, you can count on it, or no, it's garbage or it's understates something.

[1:53:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): I think that would be very helpful to decision makers and going forward.

[1:53:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): So I would support number two. I mean, of course, number one, I'm not voting, so I can't be voting.

[1:53:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): But I think either be really clear.

[1:53:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): Number two, that you're looking for, you know, service, independent services, I think, is what you're saying.

[1:54:11] Voice 3: I'm used to it myself.

[1:54:12] Voice 9: I've got a bit of a tickle in my throat.

[1:54:13] Voice 9: Okay. Thanks, Josie Patrick. Anybody else want to comment? Okay. Okay, go ahead, Sam.

[1:54:28] Voice 14: Well, I continue to have real struggles and frustrations with the list tool.

[1:54:37] Voice 14: I know this is not new. And I want to be really clear, this is not about,

[1:54:41] Voice 14: um you know denigrating the effort that's gone into developing it um but i i like i really

[1:54:55] Voice 14: support the work that that that uh um patricia did in in a lot of this stuff it was the species

[1:55:01] Voice 14: at risk report is phenomenal very happy to send those things forward um i feel still like the

[1:55:14] Voice 14: The concerns that I've had around the genesis of this tool, its rollout, and I mean, to

[1:55:21] Voice 14: be clear, you know, I mean, Stephanie, you're talking about, you know, that staff can start

[1:55:25] Voice 14: to use these tools.

[1:55:28] Voice 14: It's, you've said before, and it's clear that this, that certainly the list is already

[1:55:33] Voice 14: being applied.

[1:55:34] Voice 14: applied um i it remains a project that was not a request of of uh of trustees which is not to say

[1:55:47] Voice 14: and i don't want to in any way have a chilling effect on staff developing new tools or coming

[1:55:52] Voice 14: up with with ways to do stuff i'd really support innovative approaches to sort of collating data

[1:55:58] Voice 14: and doing all of this that still needs to be something that was never a request that came

[1:56:04] Voice 14: past anybody to to to develop this tool and clearly it you know it's there was a

[1:56:11] Voice 14: consultant hired there was work that's been done the cost of that you know was

[1:56:17] Voice 14: not directly approved and the deliverables of it and the the real

[1:56:23] Voice 14: world implications of that when they have landed in the public and even

[1:56:30] Voice 14: and landed before trustees, um, have been not satisfactory. Um, I, I appreciate that it's

[1:56:39] Voice 14: something that has become, um, uh, a tool that, that, um, regional planning team is definitely

[1:56:47] Voice 14: sort of like very proud of and please, it wants to work with, um, the, it, it, part of my issue

[1:56:57] Voice 14: is is the is the the um the issues with the the tool as it exists currently and where it's being

[1:57:04] Voice 14: and how it's applied part of it is just the process by which it's come to be um and i i still

[1:57:10] Voice 14: i still don't know that i have her and i know we talked about this last time and i and

[1:57:14] Voice 14: um you know william we had a really good i think discussion uh in the last meeting about um you

[1:57:20] Voice 14: know some parts of the waiting are discretionary some parts aren't but i still don't feel like

[1:57:25] Voice 14: there's a good methodology for when and how that's going to be um like i i at what point is there

[1:57:34] Voice 14: going to be political uh engagement with those with the layers that should be um and you know

[1:57:42] Voice 14: this yeah i i know a lot of this stuff is stuff that we've talked about before i'm trotting out

[1:57:48] Voice 14: the thing i know that i'm the squeaky wheel on this and i don't like being that that's not i

[1:57:56] Voice 14: I want to be a support of scientifically rigorous work and tools for staff.

[1:58:02] Voice 14: I want to make your lives easier.

[1:58:03] Voice 14: That's like very important to me.

[1:58:07] Voice 14: I don't feel like the concerns that I have with this particular tool have gone away.

[1:58:15] Voice 14: And I personally can't endorse moving this forward to Trust Council.

[1:58:22] Voice 14: I mean, and it may well be that the RPC doesn't agree with me.

[1:58:26] Voice 14: we go for when we talk to talk about this at trust council and maybe that's the correct thing to do

[1:58:30] Voice 14: but it this this feels like a runaway project that that we've that hasn't been that was was

[1:58:38] Voice 14: never what didn't was not did not have a clear uh objective um beyond a sort of nebulous nice

[1:58:45] Voice 14: to have tool that even when we talk about you know what it's and nominally how it's being rolled out

[1:58:51] Voice 14: to us on Denman as part of our housing project was this is a tool for you know sort of identifying

[1:58:57] Voice 14: places that are appropriate for development and obviously it has a lot more utility than that

[1:59:01] Voice 14: but yeah I don't know that that's a thing we need because it's not like I mean I would say how many

[1:59:08] Voice 14: islands uh have so many lots up for affordable housing or further development that we need a

[1:59:14] Voice 14: tool to help us decide as opposed to adapting to the challenges of the precious few lots that

[1:59:18] Voice 14: wind up being available.

[1:59:20] Voice 9: So Sam would you? I'm done. Oh okay I am going to wind you down there

[1:59:27] Voice 9: ever so slightly but so consider the fact that if you wanted to separate it out in some way

[1:59:34] Voice 9: and you know make a motion that was specific to that just go and have a think about that perhaps

[1:59:41] Voice 9: you know would you be more comfortable and I'll move on to Trustee Elliot in the meantime if you

[1:59:46] Voice 9: you don't mind. Go ahead, Trustee Arias.

[1:59:52] Voice 11: Thanks. So I'll jump off where Sam was cogitating there.

[2:00:00] Voice 11: on item four. I don't have any problem with the first three, one, two, three, and the internal

[2:00:08] Voice 11: communications policy for the land information screening tool. I absolutely, I agree that's

[2:00:14] Voice 11: necessary, especially if we are already using it. When I go back to my experience on five

[2:00:25] Voice 11: five different LTCs now over the last four years, two of which, so Maine and Gabriola,

[2:00:34] Voice 11: Maine had, you know, this phase two of its housing options project. And where I see

[2:00:44] Voice 11: So what we are calling this tool is a decision analysis method to screen and compare areas for potential residential density and intensity based on those four factors, environmental, freshwater, geohazards, transportation, infrastructure considerations.

[2:01:08] Voice 11: Those are exactly the six factors, although I'd add climate change, that are actively under debate and need to be weighed when we are considering rezoning applications for extra density.

[2:01:32] Voice 11: And you may not see this on other islands because this is, I think, the leading edge where planning is trying to meet the very complex, pre-existing and increasing pressures of climate change and development.

[2:01:55] Voice 11: And so how staff choose. And so this is where I differ from you, Sam, that maybe we didn't give direction, but every trustee has in some way said, we need work done on this area. We need to figure out what's the appropriate kind of housing? Where should it go? What's a better process? How do we protect water?

[2:02:22] Voice 11: We're all asking those questions, and in my view, this is the way that staff has come up with how are we going to answer those questions with the science and the planning tools that we have.

[2:02:39] Voice 11: So, I don't have a problem with staff doing some creative thinking and saying, how do we express the information from the land and the water? And everything is overlapping, right? So, there's got to be a way to present it so that planners can provide some options and that the LTC of the day can consider.

[2:03:07] Voice 11: And so this is really evident with our Gabriel OCP review. And because we're right in the middle of it, the conversations around, you know, whether you call it a flexible housing zone in the future, or you're leaving the potential for a lot with certain criteria to be able to be rezoned for additional development.

[2:03:35] Voice 11: And here's the criteria, and here's how we're going to look at the intensity and the impact on the land, and then that comes together for a decision for the LTC of the day.

[2:03:49] Voice 11: So to me, this is a way of organizing the information to present to an LTC.

[2:03:57] Voice 11: see and i don't know if it's a perfect name or a word but we constantly ask for information and

[2:04:06] Voice 11: there needs to be a coherent set of information that we're asking for from applicants you can't

[2:04:12] Voice 11: keep changing the game and say oh well we're just gonna let's go with our our best guess

[2:04:20] Voice 11: you know today or tomorrow let's let's evaluate you know based on what intuition you have to look

[2:04:28] Voice 11: at what is happening on the land what are the things on the side so i'm kind of going

[2:04:33] Voice 11: into the weeds a bit but i see how it works out because this is not

[2:04:39] Voice 11: what didn't work well was using the tool without a good understanding of what planners were doing

[2:04:46] Voice 11: And that led to a lot of misunderstanding and discontent. And Gabriel and have been very clear on that. Some people from Maine as well. And so when there is an understanding because the public doesn't know planning, and we can't interpret it, and we can't say what we told or we asked staff to do this, that leaves us definitely in a problematic space.

[2:05:10] Voice 11: So I think the rollout has been problematic and understanding what staff are doing is problematic. But this is the work. It's creating a model so that it brings the information together so the decision makers of the day can decide, is this an appropriate application for additional development? Is this the right place? Is it the right intensity? What are the factors to consider?

[2:05:35] Voice 11: So I have no problem with staff in their professional capacity developing a tool to do the work that we have directed them to do. And that is their job to do. I do think that it needs a lot more communication, education. And in order to be supported by the LTC, we definitely should have had more of these conversations at the beginning.

[2:05:58] Voice 11: But anyway, so as with the groundwater footprint, or sorry, the freshwater footprint project, when the dumb questions were asked in a public meeting, all the questions from the public, and, you know, William, to your credit, you plowed through lots and lots of those questions to give us those 63 frequently asked questions responses, and getting those plain language responses, I understood the project much better.

[2:06:26] Voice 11: And I think this is a similar situation where we do not understand the analysis that goes into this kind of a modeling or representation tool. And so there's resistance, and then we can't defend it or promote it to our constituents.

[2:06:45] Voice 11: constituents so anyway i'll conclude there um i would just say and ask maybe if all of these

[2:06:54] Voice 11: should also be sent to the conservancy or if by sending it to island stress council it's also

[2:06:58] Voice 11: going to go to the conservancy i mean maybe the planning stuff's not relevant but and of course

[2:07:04] Voice 11: they'd have access to any final products but um yeah thanks everyone thank

[2:07:10] Voice 9: you um i'm just gonna

[2:07:12] Voice 9: to comment myself i think i had my hand up so i actually agree with um what trustee had said

[2:07:21] Voice 9: these are tools i've thought about this quite a bit and um they are tools and we don't question

[2:07:29] Voice 9: what other tools the planners use like you know we just accept recommendations and outcomes

[2:07:38] Voice 9: and challenge them sometimes so i'm kind of leaning towards removing the second item

[2:07:47] Voice 9: we should just say receive the species at risk state of the island report receive the draft

[2:07:54] Voice 9: um terms of reference receive the draft model natural environment development permit area

[2:08:02] Voice 9: and remove that second item like we don't need to endorse anything these are tools that people use

[2:08:10] Voice 9: and they give us recommendations and outcomes based on those tools and we can dig in

[2:08:15] Voice 9: and challenge what happens i mean it's standard data layers that are integrated

[2:08:20] Voice 9: and we can as has happened challenge the results and the recommendations so i'm leaning towards

[2:08:29] Voice 9: removing that second item and just receiving all of this information and i don't know where you go

[2:08:34] Voice 9: then with turning the drafts into final products who has to approve that but um that would be the

[2:08:42] Voice 9: next step after trust council has looked at these and i have a separate bunch of comments which can

[2:08:50] Voice 9: come under when we talk about section two here and the business case and the biological expertise

[2:08:57] Voice 9: and, in fact, the State of the Island's report.

[2:09:00] Voice 9: I have some comments on that.

[2:09:02] Voice 9: But with respect to this recommendation,

[2:09:04] Voice 9: that's kind of where I'm going, I think.

[2:09:06] Voice 9: Thank you.

[2:09:08] Voice 9: Trustee Patrick, next.

[2:09:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): I'll let, oh, Trustee Graham put his hand down.

[2:09:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): I thought Trustee Graham had his hand up,

[2:09:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): but I guess it's down.

[2:09:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yeah, I think this is, I generally agree.

[2:09:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): There's a toolbox that trustees, staff pull from.

[2:09:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): But some of the tools, LIST is one of them, that needs to earn the trust of the public and the trust of the trustees, but it's the public need to be involved. There needs to be some transparency into the data layers.

[2:09:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): When we have a system that has the ability to have waiting, waiting is community value. Those are values. So staff can wait something based on their opinions and their thoughts and their professional ideas of where the waiting should go.

[2:10:01] Trustee Patrick (probable): But the community needs to be brought along on that journey and their input needs to be considered. Where does the public need to be? So while I hear you, Trustee Boland, and saying that maybe remove number two, but I think where I'm concerned, and I know for Salt Spring we had in our work plan that no longer is it in there.

[2:10:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): It said that, you know, it was the land analysis with the name of it at the time, that the data layers would be decided through community engagement and a process, and that's no longer there.

[2:10:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): So I would either like to see that, you know, which tools, of all the tools, where, how can they be used in a transparent manner? And that, you know, that staff should identify when and at what point they'll be coming and seeking public input to get that transparency and to build that trust in the results of the tool.

[2:11:16] Voice 3: You're muted, Chair.

[2:11:17] Voice 3: chair

[2:11:17] Voice 9: yeah sorry button doesn't click as easily as i would like uh thank you go ahead sam thank

[2:11:23] Voice 9: you jesse patrick yeah

[2:11:27] Voice 14: i just i want to think restate what i have said a lot of times on this

[2:11:34] Voice 14: subject is that i don't um it's not that i don't understand that that's needed and i think i said

[2:11:42] Voice 14: earlier i absolutely want to support staff and coming up with creative and innovative and

[2:11:48] Voice 14: rigorous scientifically rigorous tools for for for aiding communication around decisions and

[2:11:54] Voice 14: guiding trustees decisions and work i want that to be a thing i want to be the number one champion

[2:12:00] Voice 14: and as i've said a bunch of times i love me a good map i love one that's that you can you can

[2:12:05] Voice 14: twiddle with you i would want that desperately i think it is fantastic um the issue with how

[2:12:14] Voice 14: this has happened and i that this has been acknowledged and i appreciate that that like

[2:12:19] Voice 14: Like, the rollout of this was, you know, left something to be desired.

[2:12:24] Voice 14: But to Trustee Patrick's comment just now in terms of this is about earning trust,

[2:12:32] Voice 14: I want to be your number one champion when you roll out a tool like this to public.

[2:12:37] Voice 14: And I think as trustees, we ought to be.

[2:12:39] Voice 14: I think we ought to be able to vigorously support the work of staff.

[2:12:45] Voice 14: With this particular tool, because of the way that it came about,

[2:12:49] Voice 14: because of the way that it was the genesis of it as a project and then throughout this project

[2:12:56] Voice 14: at many points after which it had already been used and caused problems in our process

[2:13:05] Voice 14: I still was asking staff for well how is this going to be implemented how are we going to

[2:13:10] Voice 14: maintain this tool how are we going to do all these things and I understand that that's in this

[2:13:14] Voice 14: request, you know, to develop those tools. The part that's the problem here is that we have

[2:13:21] Voice 14: consistently put the cart before the horse in terms of coming up, we've decided we want this

[2:13:26] Voice 14: tool, we've gone ahead and built this, which is fundamentally a collection point for a data that

[2:13:34] Voice 14: we already had, which is great, which is I totally get the utility of that. But we have thought about

[2:13:40] Voice 14: how we're going to use this tool after we've already spent a lot of time and money to build it

[2:13:46] Voice 14: and after it has already been started to be used kind of blindly without us really understanding

[2:13:52] Voice 14: how how it should function and i i i hear you trustee elliot like obviously this speaks to

[2:14:00] Voice 14: all of those questions and it's has absolutely tremendous potential i think i've been really

[2:14:06] Voice 14: clear about that all the way through my issue is that i the every time that i have seen it deployed

[2:14:12] Voice 14: in in my experience and i know that this has happened on other islands too i don't have the

[2:14:17] Voice 14: benefit of being a vice chair and getting to work in those ltcs on the regular but like i i know that

[2:14:23] Voice 14: it has not been without issues and i think that those issues are ones that i want to be able to

[2:14:29] Voice 14: you know support or defend or or or do but when when it hasn't come from us uh and when it has

[2:14:36] Voice 14: not been clear how it's going to be maintained and managed in future or how staff are going to

[2:14:41] Voice 14: use it that's where it becomes an issue um so i mean fundamentally for me like my only real change

[2:14:47] Voice 14: for this is is actually just deleting i i cannot endorse staff use of list sure that's the only

[2:14:55] Voice 14: thing the rest of it fine but like that's the part where I just cannot I like at this point

[2:15:01] Voice 14: it's it's still not clear to me how much this has cost us to to develop where where that you know

[2:15:07] Voice 14: and it's absolutely I want staff to come up with stuff that's yeah anyways I'm repeating myself

[2:15:13] Voice 14: and I'm sorry and I don't want to um I'm not trying to be difficult um I just have very real

[2:15:20] Voice 14: concerns about how this process

[2:15:22] Voice 14: came about and it's you

[2:15:23] Voice 9: feel passionate about this so because

[2:15:26] Voice 14: i want it to work but i but it

[2:15:28] Voice 14: behooves us to really interrogate these things it's important

[2:15:32] Voice 14: for us as

[2:15:33] Voice 14: stewards of this process to to be involved and we haven't been so

[2:15:38] Voice 9: so sam just to

[2:15:40] Voice 9: go back to what trustee patrick said which was that she wants transparency

[2:15:48] Voice 9: and community engagement in understanding the layers the constraints and then you and I both

[2:15:58] Voice 9: think that endorse the use is over egging the cake but if you go through the other items which

[2:16:04] Voice 9: is request staff to prepare and communications policy to expand and refine those items do they

[2:16:13] Voice 9: cover what you want going forward admitting the mistakes of the past or would you like to add to

[2:16:20] Voice 9: that in some way like i

[2:16:24] Voice 14: mean broadly yeah i i would hope that these cover those things the the

[2:16:29] Voice 14: thing that that is a problem for me is that um i don't i don't actually want us to be using this

[2:16:38] Voice 14: too i want to put a hard stop on using this tool no matter how you know useful and i know it's

[2:16:44] Voice 14: developed a long way from when we started having these conversations and i really applaud staff on

[2:16:48] Voice 14: the work that they've done on this but i i really think we need to um if we're if you know in a

[2:16:54] Voice 14: consistent note i think we've had at trust council is that you know we want to see more leadership

[2:16:59] Voice 14: from trustees i okay it's it's this transparency and community engagement that that that um trustee

[2:17:07] Voice 14: patrick was talking about before community engagement i want us to have a really uh

[2:17:13] Voice 14: a comprehensive concept of how and when we're going to maintain this project and i want us to

[2:17:18] Voice 14: have some some real clarity about how it came about and and what its cost um just to and again

[2:17:26] Voice 14: like i think it should exist but broadly like and i and director cermak is going to speak next and

[2:17:31] Voice 14: perhaps he can you know clarify if if that sort of thing is going to come into this but i i i'm

[2:17:37] Voice 14: I'm really concerned that it's being used without it having been fully realized and

[2:17:42] Voice 14: defined from a leadership perspective, quite apart from anything else.

[2:17:47] Voice 14: Okay.

[2:17:49] Voice 9: Okay.

[2:17:49] Voice 9: Thank you, Sam.

[2:17:51] Voice 9: I'll let Stefan respond and then Trustee Graham.

[2:17:54] Voice 9: Go ahead, Stefan.

[2:17:57] Voice 6: Thank you.

[2:17:58] Voice 6: And, you know, all I can really do is apologize for how it did roll out.

[2:18:02] Voice 6: I think we all hear you, Sam, and, or pardon me, Trustee Borthwick.

[2:18:07] Voice 6: And yeah, it rolled out lumpy for sure.

[2:18:11] Voice 6: And here we are.

[2:18:13] Voice 6: So the whole purpose of here today, as was last meeting, is to sort of course correct

[2:18:18] Voice 6: in terms of getting Trust Council endorsement for staff to use the project.

[2:18:23] Voice 6: You know, of course, you know, it was developed by professional geoscientists, professional

[2:18:27] Voice 6: biologists, professional planners, GIS.

[2:18:30] Voice 6: So it very much was, you know, co-created by professional people in-house.

[2:18:36] Voice 6: So there was, at my understanding, there was no external cost. We just used staff time. So I don't think I could quantify that staff time for you today. That would be quite the rigorous work for me to do.

[2:18:46] Voice 6: There

[2:18:46] Voice 14: was a consultant involved

[2:18:47] Voice 14: in this process, Director Cermak.

[2:18:50] Voice 6: Originally when we were developing some of the mapping products for the Housing Options Toolkit, and that's where I was going to go with that, is that this work was all guided when the Housing Options Toolkit was being developed over the years.

[2:19:01] Voice 6: and of course it was just one of 10 tools there and so yeah so there's a lot of discussion about

[2:19:10] Voice 6: the tools what they were what the purpose was and yes they were used these tools were used as they

[2:19:16] Voice 6: were developed and of course that housing options toolkit was being developed at the same time

[2:19:20] Voice 6: as you mentioned as the main island local trust committee and going forward from that point so

[2:19:27] Voice 6: yeah so we went forward and we were working on that in that in that manner and what you have

[2:19:32] Voice 6: have today is the latest version of that so and I would hope too that the that what you have in

[2:19:39] Voice 6: your package here was also available in your last LTC meeting is that it provides a path forward

[2:19:44] Voice 6: about how to ensure that we have proper communications plain language communications

[2:19:49] Voice 6: it's all very transparent open we own the data we can play with the data and that if in as well as

[2:19:56] Voice 6: in the other tools if you look at the model project work plans or even the housing discussion

[2:20:01] Voice 6: paper guidelines as tool two if you look at the other information such as um you know the build

[2:20:07] Voice 6: out zones and what have you all those tools are for the ltc to decide how to use when to decide

[2:20:12] Voice 6: and going to trustee patrick's point we do have it in the work plan to look at these early plans

[2:20:19] Voice 6: and how we're moving forward and you know at what point uh do we does the ltc want to engage in you

[2:20:26] Voice 6: you know, perhaps a more value-based discussion.

[2:20:28] Voice 6: So the tool's there, it's ready to be used,

[2:20:31] Voice 6: and then it'll be up to the LTC

[2:20:32] Voice 6: when they're going through the projects stage

[2:20:34] Voice 6: to decide what level of engagement

[2:20:36] Voice 6: they want to use for that tool.

[2:20:38] Voice 6: So I feel like we're at a really good place

[2:20:42] Voice 6: of understanding what we've done wrong

[2:20:43] Voice 6: in terms of rolling it out,

[2:20:45] Voice 6: but here we are with a good product

[2:20:48] Voice 6: to take to Trust Council

[2:20:49] Voice 6: to seek their endorsement for their use.

[2:20:51] Voice 6: So, and I hear your trustee parts work.

[2:20:55] Voice 6: it's a very frustrating process for you and it caused a lot of pain on on especially so

[2:21:00] Voice 9: what i'm hearing and reflecting on is uh that in sam's view i'm not putting him on the plate

[2:21:07] Voice 9: particularly but that this bundle this is a bit of a cornucopia bundle of recommendations

[2:21:14] Voice 9: and the bundle goes too far with respect to the list tool and and perhaps what we should have

[2:21:21] Voice 9: is that staff prepare a communications policy

[2:21:27] Voice 9: and present that to trustees,

[2:21:29] Voice 9: like take it through trustees before it goes,

[2:21:34] Voice 9: it gets expanded and refined in the web

[2:21:37] Voice 9: and before it's endorsed,

[2:21:39] Voice 9: that that step of rebuilding the trust

[2:21:42] Voice 9: and confidence of trustees is taken.

[2:21:45] Voice 9: But I'll go to Trustee Graham now.

[2:21:48] Voice 9: Trustee Graham, I'm abusing my position

[2:21:51] Voice 9: as chair. So, Trustee Graham, go ahead.

[2:21:54] Voice 5: Thank you, Chair. Please don't consider it an abuse.

[2:21:59] Voice 5: First of all, I want to thank the Director of Planning for acknowledging that it was lumpy.

[2:22:05] Voice 5: I want to acknowledge the passion of my co-trustee and how much I enjoy his discussions. And I think

[2:22:12] Voice 5: this is this is really good for staff to hear um how these tools are sometimes um used by trustees

[2:22:21] Voice 5: in in their decision-making process and as as it has been said before trust is is you're only going

[2:22:29] Voice 5: to use a tool that you trust so of course the initial rollout was lumpy our use of it on denman

[2:22:33] Voice 5: was lumpy and so the the trust needs to be established in particular on them and maybe

[2:22:39] Voice 5: maybe other islands too. And Chair Boland made a great suggestion, use this as a beta test

[2:22:45] Voice 5: in those situations where you're trying something a bit new. But ultimately, at the end of the day,

[2:22:51] Voice 5: as a decision maker, I have in many situations where I was a decision maker, I've ignored some

[2:22:58] Voice 5: tools. I've said, well, you know, I don't really need that tool. I have local knowledge. I have

[2:23:02] Voice 5: a deep sense of my community, much deeper than any tool that's being used by the professionals

[2:23:08] Voice 5: would be able to comprehend and really give a number to.

[2:23:12] Voice 5: So, you know, some tools are good.

[2:23:14] Voice 5: Some tools aren't so good.

[2:23:15] Voice 5: Some tools will really help you.

[2:23:17] Voice 5: I mean, if you've got two pieces of property

[2:23:18] Voice 5: that you're lucky enough to have

[2:23:22] Voice 5: potentially used for affordable housing

[2:23:24] Voice 5: and you need some way to make an evaluation,

[2:23:27] Voice 5: that tool might be the tool that really helps you

[2:23:30] Voice 5: get that decision over to your community.

[2:23:33] Voice 5: It's always important to explain to your community

[2:23:35] Voice 5: how you made that decision.

[2:23:37] Voice 5: I remember past trustee Louise Bell really hammered that into my head.

[2:23:43] Voice 5: If when you make a decision, it's important that you explain to your community how you made that decision.

[2:23:48] Voice 5: And sometimes the only the only way that you can explain that is you were using a particular tool that came from the planning staff and it really helped you to make that decision.

[2:23:57] Voice 5: So end of story. I'm quite happy with recommendations and I will be voting in for to send them off to Trust Council.

[2:24:04] Voice 5: all. If I may respond, Chair? Go ahead.

[2:24:10] Voice 6: Thank you, Trustee Graham. I just want to be clear. So like

[2:24:14] Voice 6: this tool really is, you know, as I tried to make clear in my report, you know, endorsing staff use

[2:24:20] Voice 6: of these various technical tools. And I very much hear that, you know, transparency about staff

[2:24:27] Voice 6: using these tools for values, etc. But it really is, staff are going to be using a technical tool

[2:24:34] Voice 6: very similar to this whether it's you know trustee endorsed or not because that's we need to use

[2:24:39] Voice 6: these tools in order to get the job done and by no means am i trying to say uh trustee portwick

[2:24:44] Voice 6: would we be using this without you know secretly in the background or something like that uh we'll

[2:24:49] Voice 6: always daylight so what the purpose here is to daylight plainly and this is what the beauty of

[2:24:55] Voice 6: this project is because trustees never had this before as far as i know they never had a daylit

[2:25:00] Voice 6: methodology that's replicable that demonstrated how staff are actually applying these layers

[2:25:06] Voice 6: of information so this is actually a really good moment in time of showing transparency but staff

[2:25:13] Voice 6: have to use these tools in one way or another in order to give you a recommendation we're just

[2:25:16] Voice 6: showing you how we're doing that so when it comes to the further analysis of applying that to a

[2:25:22] Voice 6: project and when the LTC gets involved and they receive that report that's the moment when the

[2:25:28] Voice 6: trustees go okay i question your values and as trustee patrick said it and let's play with those

[2:25:34] Voice 6: values let's tinker with that let's let's amend them however the community perfect time but i

[2:25:40] Voice 6: don't think that changes at all honestly this current product that you have because that's

[2:25:44] Voice 6: staff's professional assessment we can't change a professional assessment on anything other than

[2:25:48] Voice 6: professional assessment at the moment that's staff's role but when we take the community

[2:25:52] Voice 6: and we say this is how we came to this recommendation that's the moment the community

[2:25:57] Voice 6: as you said trustee graham um well we don't like that we don't like your values we don't agree with

[2:26:02] Voice 6: you and that's great that's perfect the whole point is just to daylight how we got to where we

[2:26:07] Voice 6: are and in that i really am strongly in support of the product but i really hear you that we did

[2:26:13] Voice 6: a lousy job of rolling it out and this is what we're trying to correct so i hope that provides

[2:26:18] Voice 6: some certainty and assurances but i don't think so i see trustee boy they're coming back go ahead

[2:26:24] Voice 9: I'm not

[2:26:26] Voice 14: going to speak to this again

[2:26:29] Voice 14: I don't want to retread the ground

[2:26:32] Voice 14: and I don't want to frustrate my staff and trustees

[2:26:35] Voice 14: because I feel like there's an issue

[2:26:40] Voice 14: potentially, ironically

[2:26:43] Voice 14: in how I'm communicating what I'm talking about

[2:26:46] Voice 14: and it is not an abstract

[2:26:50] Voice 14: like

[2:26:54] Voice 14: irrational, it may sound like it

[2:26:56] Voice 14: hatred of this tool specifically i want and i understand the use of this tool i want this tool

[2:27:04] Voice 14: to be something that i can support with my full chest um the how this came to be and and and in

[2:27:15] Voice 14: terms of like we can talk about you know a rollout being lumpy um but this to me is indicative of a

[2:27:24] Voice 14: a position where, you know, for absolutely the correct reasons, staff were like, hey,

[2:27:30] Voice 14: we could really use a place to collate this data.

[2:27:32] Voice 14: We could really use a place to assess these things.

[2:27:34] Voice 14: And as Trustee Graham was talking about, you know, this could be really useful for assessing

[2:27:38] Voice 14: property to property.

[2:27:40] Voice 14: That need or that idea was then taken by staff and started to be worked on and developed

[2:27:48] Voice 14: without coming through trustees which meant that when very reasonably you showed up with a with a

[2:27:56] Voice 14: shiny tool that you were excited about and and keen to use and has clear and obvious utility

[2:28:01] Voice 14: um you were keen to to use it um the problem was for for me as a trustee was i was like well where

[2:28:10] Voice 14: did this come from and certainly how staff explained it or it was described at the time

[2:28:16] Voice 14: was that this is to in some ways and like i think the the the conceptualization of its utility has

[2:28:25] Voice 14: has evolved and developed and and become more fulsome i think it's maybe just being explained

[2:28:30] Voice 14: and rationalized in in more um

[2:28:33] Voice 4: uh

[2:28:34] Voice 14: sophisticated terms hang on chair please let me finish the

[2:28:41] Voice 14: but but the way that it was rolled out and and the the the manner in which it was rolled out and i

[2:28:45] Voice 14: And I fully anticipate that staff will continue to use whatever tool they want to in the background.

[2:28:50] Voice 14: The issue is, so when it then shows up and there is data that is wildly wrong and like, you know, and I know that there's a lot of rigor that's gone into this and this is a collation and there were errors and whatever else.

[2:29:03] Voice 14: But like, there wasn't a mechanism for us to feed that back in.

[2:29:08] Voice 14: And there hasn't been a good discussion about how we're going to address those issues.

[2:29:12] Voice 14: and and it was something that a map shows up printed at a meeting and people are like well

[2:29:18] Voice 14: this is there's a road missing here um that is a major like there's houses on that road there's

[2:29:23] Voice 14: wells there's you know obviously a lot of the other data showed that there was clearly a road

[2:29:27] Voice 14: but it was the road was missing for example um that stops being an abstract problem and starts

[2:29:35] Voice 14: immediately spiking confidence in what the other parts of the work we're trying to do

[2:29:39] Voice 14: And so even though I had already at that point said, hey, I don't think this is ready to be deployed actively here, it still came forward.

[2:29:52] Voice 14: And this is a broader issue of like there's a direction that's being moved off in.

[2:30:00] Voice 14: that that we're not being brought along for the rationale of the ride and that makes it very

[2:30:05] Voice 14: difficult for us to support you and i feel so so strongly about supporting your work i have

[2:30:12] Voice 14: a lot of confidence in all of the

[2:30:16] Voice 14: planning department but it's it's this makes it really

[2:30:19] Voice 14: difficult and because that process has been has come around that way i it sam

[2:30:26] Voice 9: what would you

[2:30:28] Voice 9: proposed change in the recommendation my

[2:30:31] Voice 14: my well as i said my my the total totalitary of my my edit

[2:30:37] Voice 14: would be to just delete list from the endorse staff use of bullet everything else go for it

[2:30:44] Voice 14: i

[2:30:45] Voice 9: agree with you so um is it possible to do that on the fly stefan

[2:30:54] Voice 9: so endorse the use of but remove the list from that because we really haven't had the

[2:31:03] Voice 9: internal communications policy and we haven't expanded and refined so just that we do not

[2:31:10] Voice 9: endorse the use of list in that list is

[2:31:19] Voice 6: that possible stephan sorry my my mouse was not

[2:31:22] Voice 6: yeah going

[2:31:23] Voice 6: over my mute button there is um you know i i you know obviously it's up to the rpc

[2:31:30] Voice 6: to entertain whatever resolution you'd like to make um how you go about doing it you could do

[2:31:35] Voice 6: it a bunch of different

[2:31:35] Voice 6: ways um i dare say and perhaps this is a just a thought if that um

[2:31:43] Voice 6: mr croker could say let's say cut and paste the recommendation into a word document

[2:31:48] Voice 6: put it on screen and then before passing that as a resolution you can wordsmith it i've seen

[2:31:55] Voice 6: trustee patrick or chair patrick do such things with magic at council meetings and those kind of

[2:32:01] Voice 6: things um i'm just

[2:32:03] Voice 4: saying you're really good at getting

[2:32:04] Voice 6: resolutions drafted without passing them

[2:32:06] Voice 6: yet so if you'd like to do that just put it up there and you can kind of wordsmith it without

[2:32:10] Voice 6: passing it and before you start making amendments to amendments and the whole thing to

[2:32:15] Voice 9: be honest my

[2:32:15] Voice 9: My proposal would be to remove that entire paragraph of endorse

[2:32:22] Voice 9: and add in the other items to receive.

[2:32:28] Voice 9: And so we receive all of them, we pass them to Trust Council,

[2:32:32] Voice 9: and we do not endorse them until Trust Council has seen them.

[2:32:38] Voice 9: So there's a discussion of all of them at Trust Council,

[2:32:40] Voice 9: and Trust Council then makes a choice.

[2:32:43] Voice 9: Because I don't endorse elements of this,

[2:32:46] Voice 9: So my preference would be to take that out and vote on receiving and passing to Trust Council generically all of this material.

[2:32:57] Voice 9: Anybody else have a thought on that? Trustee Bortwick?

[2:33:02] Voice 14: I mean, just because, again, this is a recommendation from from RPC.

[2:33:07] Voice 14: I have no problem endorsing the use of the species at risk report.

[2:33:13] Voice 14: I have no problem endorsing the terms of reference for professional environmental assessment reports.

[2:33:17] Voice 14: um and and the model dpa area or dpa area area um those those don't trouble me as things for

[2:33:27] Voice 14: us to endorse i think we still will have a discussion at trust council um i just am okay

[2:33:36] Voice 9: let's remove list and uh go forward with this recommendation um number one okay so i'm happy

[2:33:46] Voice 14: happy to make the motion if that's helpful, if we don't

[2:33:48] Voice 14: want to discuss

[2:33:49] Voice 11: it. Sorry, go ahead.

[2:33:51] Voice 11: Before you make a motion, there's one person who's objecting to the list being included. What

[2:33:57] Voice 11: about everyone else?

[2:33:58] Voice 9: Okay, fair enough. Stropo, who would have list removed from that? Okay,

[2:34:06] Voice 9: Okay, hands up in favor of removing list.

[2:34:13] Voice 9: Okay, that is two to three.

[2:34:17] Voice 9: Lower the hand.

[2:34:19] Voice 9: Okay, well, that speaks for itself.

[2:34:21] Voice 9: So let's go ahead with the motion as it is then.

[2:34:27] Voice 9: Anybody want to make the motion?

[2:34:32] Voice 9: Go ahead, Trustee Graham.

[2:34:34] Voice 9: I don't know if you need to read every single word.

[2:34:36] Voice 9: Perhaps you do.

[2:34:37] Voice 5: I'm happy to read every single word if I have to.

[2:34:40] Voice 5: Okay, go ahead.

[2:34:41] Voice 5: I move that the Regional Planning Committee forward this request for decision and its

[2:34:46] Voice 5: attachments to Islands Trust Council recommending that Islands Trust Council receive the Species

[2:34:53] Voice 5: at Risk State of the Islands Report, endorse staff use of the Species at Risk State of

[2:34:56] Voice 5: the Islands Report list and the model natural development permit area as operational technical

[2:35:02] Voice 5: inputs when advising local trust committees and preparing bylaw updates, endorse staff

[2:35:07] Voice 5: use of the terms of reference for professional environmental assessment reports and staff

[2:35:11] Voice 5: operational standard request staff to prepare an internal communications policy to improve how the

[2:35:15] Voice 5: methodology and rationale behind the land information screening tool are communicated

[2:35:21] Voice 5: in staff reports presentations and related projects and request staff to expand and define

[2:35:25] Voice 5: or i'm sorry refine the land information screening tool content in the housing options toolkit

[2:35:30] Voice 5: by adding a more technical summary of the tools methodology rationale and intended use to

[2:35:35] Voice 5: to complement the current plain, whoops, someone just put a thing there, so I can't,

[2:35:40] Voice 5: plain language version posted online as tool for land information screening tool.

[2:35:47] Voice 9: And Trustee Ellie, do you want to second that?

[2:35:50] Voice 9: Please.

[2:35:54] Voice 9: Sorry, I didn't hear you.

[2:35:58] Voice 9: Yes.

[2:35:59] Voice 9: Thank you. Okay.

[2:36:00] Voice 9: And so let's have all hands in favor.

[2:36:06] Voice 9: Now, please.

[2:36:07] Voice 9: so okay so that is two in favor and um lower your hands please and those against so that's

[2:36:30] Voice 9: two in favor two against i believe that carries if it's a tie so um that motion carries thanks

[2:36:42] Voice 9: Thanks, everybody.

[2:36:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): So number two.

[2:36:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): I'm sorry, was that a tie?

[2:36:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): If it's a tie, it fails.

[2:36:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): I thought

[2:36:52] Voice 9: it was a

[2:36:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): tie carriage

[2:36:54] Voice 9: from the last meeting we had.

[2:36:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): Nope,

[2:36:56] Voice 9: a tie fails.

[2:36:59] Voice 9: Is that correct, Stefan?

[2:37:01] Voice 9: Can you confirm her?

[2:37:03] Voice 6: You know, I'm a little stumped.

[2:37:05] Voice 6: Every committee is a tiny bit different.

[2:37:09] Voice 6: I'll have to get back to you on that.

[2:37:10] Voice 9: I'm sorry, in regional planning.

[2:37:12] Voice 9: I know there's a trust council, I believe that.

[2:37:16] Voice 9: The tie fails.

[2:37:18] Voice 9: Okay.

[2:37:19] Voice 9: Is that specifically

[2:37:20] Voice 9: for regional planning or in general?

[2:37:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): Where's David Marler when you need him?

[2:37:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yeah.

[2:37:29] Voice 9: Anybody else remember what happened at trust council when I believe he said that a tie.

[2:37:36] Voice 9: Okay.

[2:37:38] Voice 9: Let's pause on this.

[2:37:40] Voice 9: Stefan, do you want to go and get advice?

[2:37:42] Voice 9: and um let us

[2:37:45] Voice 6: do chair if you can give me like five minutes just to uh do a deep dive and i'll

[2:37:50] Voice 6: be back in a second

[2:37:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): and just robert's rules of order a tie vote fails you can look that up

[2:37:58] Voice 9: okay

[2:38:00] Voice 9: i'm just remembering trust council unless this is specific rule for trust council

[2:38:05] Voice 9: Council. That's, you know, overrides. Okay, would people like to break for 20 minutes for

[2:38:18] Voice 9: lunch and for that to be confirmed? Not disputing it at all, Laura, I just thought it would be wise

[2:38:25] Voice 9: to check that there isn't something specific in our own policies.

[2:38:30] Voice 11: No, let's do 30 minutes, Chair,

[2:38:32] Voice 11: just to give everyone a chance for lunch and moving around.

[2:38:36] Voice 9: Okay, thank you very much and

[2:38:38] Voice 9: and thanks for your patience.

[2:38:39] Voice 9: And Stefan, give me a call if you need to.

[2:38:42] Voice 9: Okay, so 30 minutes starting now, and thank you.

[3:09:22] Voice 9: everybody, or we have Trustee Graham. Oh, hello, Trustee Forthwick. What else do we have?

[3:09:42] Voice 9: So Trustee Elliott isn't with us. Does that mean we've lost quorum?

[3:09:52] Voice 12: I'm Chair Boland. We have a quorum of voting members currently, I believe,

[3:09:56] Voice 12: without Trustee Elliott.

[3:09:58] Voice 12: Well,

[3:10:03] Voice 9: we did have, but she's not online right now, I think.

[3:10:06] Voice 14: I think what Rob's saying is that even with three, we have quorum.

[3:10:09] Voice 14: okay

[3:10:10] Voice 9: fair enough i thought we had anyway all right fine great what do i know i don't even

[3:10:17] Voice 9: know what how the voting works thank you stefan for that i apologize for the confusion that i

[3:10:24] Voice 9: created so uh going forward uh so that vote just for clarity for anybody listening

[3:10:32] Voice 9: listening. If a vote ties, then the vote fails under the Communities Act. And so we are in

[3:10:42] Voice 9: a situation where this recommendation, number one, has failed as it stands. So would anybody

[3:10:53] Voice 9: like to make an amendment? Okay. I would like to make an amendment.

[3:11:02] Voice 5: I have my hand up, Chair.

[3:11:04] Voice 9: Go ahead.

[3:11:06] Voice 5: I'm just wondering if I remove the word list from the second bullet and we vote, is that far enough away from the original vote that we're not going back to rehash an old decision? That's my question.

[3:11:22] Voice 9: I think that that would be a great amendment. And that was what I was going to propose as well. So if you're happy to propose that, and given that you read it all exhaustively the first time, I think you could possibly do a pricey this time. And we could vote again.

[3:11:43] Voice 14: Um, chair, just briefly. And I, I, I know that we've, we've, you know, we've kind of gone over

[3:11:50] Voice 14: this before, but I remember talking with, um, trustee Maude, um, and he in sort of going through

[3:11:59] Voice 14: some of the terms of reference, and maybe this only applies at LTCs, but he did, um, come across

[3:12:05] Voice 14: it. There is a, it is allowed. I know it's been a, it's been a sort of traditional approach to

[3:12:09] Voice 14: read everything out verbatim, but he had apparently found in his thing, and I can't

[3:12:16] Voice 14: remember, we talked about this a while ago, but that things could be adopted as presented.

[3:12:24] Voice 14: Anyways, we don't have to go that way. It's not necessarily helpful to get into the weeds on that

[3:12:28] Voice 14: right now without Director Marler, but he had found that that was actually permissible.

[3:12:34] Voice 9: Are you saying that what we proposed, which is that Trustee Graham would just make the amendment

[3:12:41] Voice 9: and leave the reading aside?

[3:12:43] Voice 14: Well, I think it's not technically an amendment

[3:12:44] Voice 14: because that motion did fail.

[3:12:48] Voice 14: But he could, say, make the motion as amended

[3:12:53] Voice 9: with

[3:12:53] Voice 14: that amendment specified.

[3:12:55] Voice 14: I think it would be a new motion.

[3:12:57] Voice 14: Now, Director Cermak, yeah, I can see he's got his hand up.

[3:12:59] Voice 14: So if that's too far from standard operating practice,

[3:13:03] Voice 14: it's fine.

[3:13:05] Voice 6: If I may, Chair?

[3:13:06] Voice 9: Go ahead, Stefan.

[3:13:07] Voice 6: Yeah, actually,

[3:13:08] Voice 9: Trustee Borthwick

[3:13:09] Voice 6: is absolutely correct

[3:13:11] Voice 6: that it is legally possible to pass,

[3:13:13] Voice 6: to recommend to carry the resolution as drafted,

[3:13:17] Voice 6: but you've already gone down that rabbit hole

[3:13:19] Voice 6: and considered the motion and turned it down.

[3:13:24] Voice 6: So I think in this circumstance,

[3:13:26] Voice 6: it'd be wiser to read it as new

[3:13:28] Voice 6: because you can't reconsider the old resolution.

[3:13:31] Voice 6: You're considering a new one.

[3:13:32] Voice 6: So I recommend that you proceed with the long verbiage

[3:13:35] Voice 6: and historically the explanation

[3:13:38] Voice 6: why trustees have chosen not to take that path uh trustee borthwick that you described that uh

[3:13:43] Voice 6: trustee maude discussed is they trustees have expressed outwardly that they prefer to read

[3:13:51] Voice 6: into the public uh the actual thing as opposed to if they're listening verbally and they don't

[3:13:56] Voice 6: see the resolution so i think there's some transparency there but um that's just me

[3:14:00] Voice 6: paraphrasing what i've heard at those meetings but

[3:14:01] Voice 14: no i think i think you're totally correct

[3:14:03] Voice 6: The

[3:14:03] Voice 14: issue was, the way the discussion came up was when there's especially lists of Indigenous nations' names and the reader was not necessarily confident in pronunciation, didn't want to cause offence, that it

[3:14:18] Voice 14: was possible to enter that list without speaking it necessarily to avoid some improperness.

[3:14:28] Voice 14: Anyways, sorry, go ahead.

[3:14:30] Voice 14: in

[3:14:30] Voice 9: impropriety is that what anyway okay trustee graham sorry clear your throat have a glass of

[3:14:37] Voice 9: water oh there you go thank

[3:14:39] Voice 5: you very much so uh just for um our note takers benefit i will be

[3:14:45] Voice 5: making the motion um as amended by removing the word list in the second bullet so uh i move that

[3:14:54] Voice 5: the regional planning committee forward this request for a decision and its amended attachments

[3:15:02] Voice 5: to islands trust council recommending that islands trust council and then i don't want

[3:15:08] Voice 5: to read all that you can just copy and paste but let leave the word l-i-s-t from the second

[3:15:16] Voice 5: second vote looks like you already did. Excellent. There, I made it.

[3:15:24] Voice 9: Okay. Would somebody other than me like to second that motion?

[3:15:29] Voice 14: I am happy to second the motion.

[3:15:31] Voice 9: Okay. And let's call the vote. All those

[3:15:33] Voice 9: in favor, raise your hands. Okay. And that carries. That vote carries. Okay. Thank you.

[3:15:49] Voice 9: Okay, number two. The Regional Planning Committee requests staff to draft a business case with options for retaining ongoing biological expertise. I think Laura spoke to that earlier and you responded, Stefan. Do you want to expand on that?

[3:16:10] Voice 6: Are you asking me, Chair, or are you asking Trustee Patrick?

[3:16:15] Voice 9: I'm asking you, Stefan, please.

[3:16:17] Voice 6: Okay. Sure. So this resolution, I think, is pretty straightforward. I haven't presented the business case with all the options. And I hear Trustee Patrick very clearly, and I fully understand what she's saying about the, you know, a biologist can only work in the area of specialty, and there's many areas of specialty in biology.

[3:16:35] Voice 6: technology and if we're going to go down this path of securing biological services

[3:16:39] Voice 6: it should be for the wide breadth hence the it makes more sense to have say we used to call it

[3:16:47] Voice 6: a technical service fee or technical fund that we could draw money from and that would most likely

[3:16:53] Voice 6: be the recommendation that I bring forward back to RPC next. The question is just going to be

[3:16:59] Voice 6: how much i have to do some research on that um

[3:17:04] Voice 9: i have my hands up anybody else i have two people

[3:17:08] Voice 9: so go um trustee patrick go ahead yeah

[3:17:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): i think i'm not recommending you just have a fund and

[3:17:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): then go out it's nice to have a standing order you know you've you've gone out to tender you've

[3:17:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): selected a consultant you have them on retainer but they are a fee based you know that that type

[3:17:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): of thing because you want to be able to say i have this professional report i want it reviewed

[3:17:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): next week not have to then go out to tender and find someone and you know it needs to be timely

[3:17:39] Voice 9: um okay and i agree with that wholeheartedly because it's not just about biology there are

[3:17:46] Voice 9: other areas of expertise that you could call on if you found the right consultancy companies

[3:17:52] Voice 9: because i feel really really strongly and i won't give you my prepared speech in whole

[3:17:57] Voice 9: You'll be grateful to me for that, that we are a small organisation responsible for regulating a small proportion of the total area.

[3:18:09] Voice 9: And we need to be cognisant of increasing staff numbers and increasing the burden on people and increasing the burden of regulation as a whole.

[3:18:20] Voice 9: Because realistically, we look at, I don't know, 6,000 hectares out of 66,000.

[3:18:31] Voice 9: And one number that stuck in my head was in 2017, the building footprint was mapped at 447 hectares.

[3:18:43] Voice 9: So the building footprint on the islands trust area is 500 hectares.

[3:18:47] Voice 9: and that's sort of largely what we should be concerning ourselves with although there are

[3:18:53] Voice 9: yards and you know land around those but in general I just feel like we should be finding

[3:19:00] Voice 9: efficient ways to do things at low cost and that we shouldn't be building an empire of staff

[3:19:09] Voice 9: and expertise internally with the kind of ongoing operational cost. Okay so thank you Stefan that

[3:19:17] Voice 9: That approach is definitely appreciated.

[3:19:23] Voice 9: So does anybody want to do we need to make this motion?

[3:19:26] Voice 9: Yeah, we do.

[3:19:29] Voice 9: So would anybody like to make that motion?

[3:19:36] Voice 9: Number two.

[3:19:39] Voice 5: My hand is up, Chair.

[3:19:42] Voice 9: Yeah.

[3:19:43] Voice 9: Oh, I'm sorry.

[3:19:44] Voice 9: I can see your hand.

[3:19:45] Voice 9: I see it now.

[3:19:46] Voice 9: Get rid of my chat.

[3:19:47] Voice 9: And

[3:19:48] Voice 5: I'm suggesting that I use biological services instead of biological expertise.

[3:19:54] Voice 5: expertise. I liked the suggestion from Chair Patrick. So, if I'll make that motion and

[3:20:00] Voice 5: then you can kick it around if you'd like that. So, I move that the Regional Planning

[3:20:04] Voice 5: Committee request staff to draft a business case with options for retaining ongoing biological

[3:20:10] Voice 5: services.

[3:20:13] Voice 9: I second that motion. Any comments? Go ahead, Sam.

[3:20:26] Voice 14: Yeah. So, I just wanted to say briefly, and I appreciated where Director Cermak was coming

[3:20:32] Voice 14: at before where he said uh that this will mean no new staff and whatever else and i i do appreciate

[3:20:38] Voice 14: where you're coming from chair boland i and i know we've we've made this motion at trust council so

[3:20:43] Voice 14: it's not going to be a thing i do absolutely think of of the many staff positions that we could have

[3:20:49] Voice 14: having a registered biologist would have been fantastic i i am regret that we did not uh make

[3:20:55] Voice 14: make that choice around Professor Patricia Woodruff's position.

[3:21:02] Voice 14: Anyways, so I mean, I certainly would hope, actually, that this business case would include

[3:21:08] Voice 14: that as an option.

[3:21:11] Voice 14: That would be my personal preference.

[3:21:13] Voice 14: I don't want to ignore the potential for that.

[3:21:16] Voice 14: And it's still a question that would have to come before trust counsel.

[3:21:19] Voice 14: It's going to have to go through all the same rigor.

[3:21:22] Voice 14: That would just be my perspective.

[3:21:23] Voice 14: and I know that maybe it won't be supported then either,

[3:21:27] Voice 14: but I think it should remain within our options.

[3:21:34] Voice 9: Okay, let's call the vote, though, on this particular motion.

[3:21:38] Voice 9: All those in favor, raise your hands.

[3:21:42] Voice 9: And me.

[3:21:43] Voice 9: So that motion carries.

[3:21:45] Voice 9: Thank you.

[3:21:49] Voice 9: Unanimously.

[3:21:53] Voice 9: Okay, next item of business is item 8.1.

[3:21:57] Voice 9: And were you able to give Mary a heads up, Stefan?

[3:22:04] Voice 9: I watched her and she's online.

[3:22:06] Voice 7: I'm here.

[3:22:07] Voice 9: Okay, great.

[3:22:09] Voice 9: Oh, yeah, I see there.

[3:22:10] Voice 9: Okay.

[3:22:10] Voice 9: Right, go ahead with that particular briefing.

[3:22:15] Voice 7: Okay, thank you.

[3:22:16] Voice 7: Well, it's very nice to meet all of you.

[3:22:18] Voice 7: I don't think I've joined your committee before,

[3:22:20] Voice 7: but I really look forward to working with you.

[3:22:22] Voice 7: For those of you that don't know, I'm the new Robert, I guess.

[3:22:26] Voice 7: I guess you would know.

[3:22:29] Voice 7: Mary Storzer, Regional Planning Manager, South.

[3:22:32] Voice 7: Apologies, I don't have a background on them.

[3:22:34] Voice 7: Sometimes when I'm with staff, I don't have that.

[3:22:37] Voice 7: But yeah, it's a real pleasure to join you.

[3:22:40] Voice 7: And so I understand what I'm to do here.

[3:22:43] Voice 7: And Stefan, please just add in where you see fit, please, is to give you a bit of a briefing

[3:22:48] Voice 7: about one of the major components of the work that I am overseeing.

[3:22:52] Voice 7: And that is the work of the regional planning team.

[3:22:55] Voice 7: And so I guess you will have more experience with this team than me, but we have been looking at it a little bit with fresh eyes with just looking at some of the specific things that some of our policies have said about the role of this team, specifically from 5.9.1.

[3:23:22] Voice 7: and um and that policy just for a bit of a refresher i'm sure you've read it but it assigns

[3:23:28] Voice 7: the major policy work to the regional planning team and it also talks about who does the minor

[3:23:33] Voice 7: project work and i know you've also been considering that stuff as well um and it also

[3:23:38] Voice 7: talks about what is a major policy um uh and regulatory work and it also goes on to talk

[3:23:45] Voice 7: about some of the overall objectives around planning uh services and i i think one of them

[3:23:50] Voice 7: them, you know, every single one of them is listed there under the analysis section. And, and all of

[3:23:57] Voice 7: them are so very important. And I think we've been looking at that just like long term outcomes of

[3:24:01] Voice 7: how do we how do we take the learnings that we've that this team has had over the years since it's

[3:24:06] Voice 7: been around, and take some of the lessons learned and try to incorporate those into small, I would

[3:24:15] Voice 7: say pretty kind of smallish adjustments. But I would I would say really important adjustments

[3:24:19] Voice 7: assessments from my understanding in terms of the structure and the function of the team

[3:24:23] Voice 7: and so yeah basically the aim here is to make the major policy work and that's really you know

[3:24:30] Voice 7: mostly for for our work that really constitutes the you know by the policy the official community

[3:24:37] Voice 7: plan and land use bylaw updates and you'll you'll know that a lot of them are quite out of date

[3:24:42] Voice 7: and and so we're really trying to move towards a bit more of a standardized coordinated

[3:24:47] Voice 7: coordinated, collaborative, you know, those are all buzzwords in a way, but really, really,

[3:24:52] Voice 7: really thinking through what those mean and trying to make, you know, best practices that we are

[3:24:58] Voice 7: approaches so that we can look at being really progressive when it comes to environmental

[3:25:02] Voice 7: protection and responding to community priorities. And also working, which is so important in terms

[3:25:09] Voice 7: of working with Indigenous government bodies and First Nations across the trust area.

[3:25:15] Voice 7: area. So what I thought I would do is, well, what we've done in this briefing notice is outline

[3:25:22] Voice 7: some of the adjustments, talking basically the structure, hopefully it was logical to read,

[3:25:27] Voice 7: talking a little bit about, you know, what is it that we do, the scope of the work that we do,

[3:25:32] Voice 7: just laying it out. And some of, like for you, that summary of adjustments is probably where

[3:25:37] Voice 7: I'd be putting my mind because it's about talking about how it's tweaked from what you may have seen

[3:25:43] Voice 7: in in the past in terms of the functioning so I won't I won't belabor each one too much but

[3:25:48] Voice 7: I would just say like generally speaking there's a there's a trajectory that we want to go towards

[3:25:53] Voice 7: doing more comprehensive official community planned and land use bylaw reviews and that

[3:25:58] Voice 7: just helps us really stay on top of having you know legislative requirements that need to be

[3:26:04] Voice 7: updated oftentimes when we go in on something like housing anyways it also it inevitably leads

[3:26:12] Voice 7: to other things because everything in planning in a way is connected and it's about our communities

[3:26:18] Voice 7: and so it's very hard to do that targeted approach so I think it's been done you know you can you can

[3:26:23] Voice 7: tell me and Stefan as well I think you know we've done a great job and this is just about saying

[3:26:28] Voice 7: like let's just say what it is it's really hard to do a targeted let's go in and make sure that

[3:26:32] Voice 7: our OCPs and our land use bylaws are being like looked at across the board in terms of what we

[3:26:39] Voice 7: what representing what we know technically as well as what the community community wants um and so

[3:26:45] Voice 7: that's one of the things i think the other main thing that i would just draw your attention to

[3:26:48] Voice 7: is i think oftentimes there's been this um this way of my understanding uh this way of working

[3:26:55] Voice 7: sort of separately on a project like housing is separate over here and we do the housing toolkit

[3:27:00] Voice 7: for example in fact i was a bit involved in that one and that was that was a good deal good deal

[3:27:05] Voice 7: I think the thing that we're trying to think about is how do we streamline the work and tie it in?

[3:27:13] Voice 7: Inevitably, when we go in and look at official community plans and land use bylaws, we want to pull the best practices of what we know about housing, of what we know about shoreline, of what we know about riparian areas, of all these things.

[3:27:25] Voice 7: So it's inevitable that we'll be doing some of this work to keep the best practice and the knowledge base current.

[3:27:33] Voice 7: anyways so our thinking here is we sort of streamline that work under the work of the

[3:27:38] Voice 7: official community plan and land use bylaw work such that we are sort of on this rolling basis

[3:27:45] Voice 7: not as like a separate project but just because but as a part of the work that we do keeping these

[3:27:50] Voice 7: tool these toolkits or these these uh specific kind of we call them like strategic focus areas

[3:27:56] Voice 7: up to date as we go and i think another benefit of that that i just want to i think we said this

[3:28:01] Voice 7: this in the briefing, but is that as we do it and we're doing it in application in a community,

[3:28:06] Voice 7: it helps us also kind of ground truth it rather than think in an abstract manner over here about

[3:28:11] Voice 7: housing in general. And so that's the other thinking process that went behind this proposed

[3:28:18] Voice 7: adjustment. I think the next, yeah, and so we've been really mapping it out, trying to think,

[3:28:26] Voice 7: you know, how can we get a rolling thing going here in terms of making sure that everything

[3:28:29] Voice 7: gets updated um and so like you say like i should just say uh our goal is to have all especially

[3:28:36] Voice 7: the major uh the major islands ocps like the associated we have other little associated

[3:28:41] Voice 7: islands and that kind of thing that might take a little bit longer than the 10 years but we're

[3:28:45] Voice 7: we're working on a schedule where we can really prep ourselves to do sort of the the data work

[3:28:50] Voice 7: and then and and be able to kind of as my mom would say march through the uh the work in a very

[3:28:57] Voice 7: strategic way and always building on these best practice approaches that we're developing as we

[3:29:04] Voice 7: go as well as building upon from before. The other thing that I think we wanted to draw your

[3:29:10] Voice 7: attention to, and it's something that we've actually been working on, and Robert and then

[3:29:14] Voice 7: Stefan and all of you, kudos in the sense of like trying to think about how we decide on what we're

[3:29:20] Voice 7: working on, which is the major project work, which is the official community plans we need to go to

[3:29:24] Voice 7: first. And so it's actually in 5.9.1 that we need to recommend to trust council via you as well as

[3:29:32] Voice 7: the financial planning committee prioritization for these projects. And it references us maintaining

[3:29:37] Voice 7: a health OCP health checklist. And so basically what we are trying to do is get really focused

[3:29:44] Voice 7: and really pointed and this will help you when we come back to you with our recommendations to

[3:29:50] Voice 7: to understand what is the thought process that we've gone through to assess

[3:29:54] Voice 7: what we think is the most important sort of.

[3:30:00] Voice 7: trust area to go go to first and then which is next and which and and so on and so forth and so

[3:30:05] Voice 7: the ocp health checklist is really mostly based on two components one is um time since it's been

[3:30:13] Voice 7: updated because again think that it's very important because of the legislative stuff

[3:30:18] Voice 7: because of best practices as we learn and such so that's one component the other is growth pressures

[3:30:23] Voice 7: So where we're looking at growth rates and where we don't have that data, we're looking at just basic population data.

[3:30:31] Voice 7: So to try to help us prioritize. In addition, we're working with the Islands Trust Conservancy.

[3:30:38] Voice 7: They do have priority areas, high, medium, low in their five year plan.

[3:30:43] Voice 7: plan and also of course the work that you've just reviewed with that Patricia did looking a little

[3:30:49] Voice 7: bit more pointedly at you know is there is there a real priority to go to these islands specific

[3:30:55] Voice 7: islands more than others because of the like the considerations from the conservancy and then

[3:31:02] Voice 7: another absolutely key priority for us is to be strategic in our in our thinking I think

[3:31:07] Voice 7: strategic alignment in my mind there's two components to that one is politically you know

[3:31:11] Voice 7: are we aligned with what is, you know,

[3:31:15] Voice 7: the trust council has said about what they want in their strategic plan.

[3:31:19] Voice 7: And as well as though there is a technical efficiency kind of strategic

[3:31:23] Voice 7: component too. So for example, we, you've heard about like with, with,

[3:31:28] Voice 7: with working with William, I'm not sure if he's still on, but you know,

[3:31:32] Voice 7: there's strategic reasons to go forward on some projects in some ways together

[3:31:37] Voice 7: as well, because we can do the,

[3:31:39] Voice 7: we can get the data that we need across several areas.

[3:31:42] Voice 7: We'll be doing that regardless.

[3:31:43] Voice 7: That may or may not drive the next official community plan

[3:31:47] Voice 7: and land use planning bylaw,

[3:31:49] Voice 7: but we'll always be looking for those types of efficiencies

[3:31:51] Voice 7: so we can set ourselves up to have the data we need

[3:31:53] Voice 7: when we go to look at the official community plans.

[3:31:57] Voice 7: And then I guess the other criteria that we're going to be looking at

[3:32:00] Voice 7: is this sort of, you know, LTC, is there a priority?

[3:32:04] Voice 7: Because they're the ones that are going to ultimately overseeing the work

[3:32:07] Voice 7: work? And, and sort of, is there, is there a desire there to, to work on this stuff? And then

[3:32:14] Voice 7: workload and, and, and distribution. And so those last three are more about like sort of how we

[3:32:20] Voice 7: sequence them as opposed to, but actually they all are about that. But so those are the main ones. I

[3:32:26] Voice 7: think, you know, the only real adjustment here is, is just being really trying to be really well,

[3:32:31] Voice 7: I think, I think, you know, pulling in some things that were maybe not as named but I don't

[3:32:36] Voice 7: know Stefan you could you correct me there maybe maybe they were named but we're trying to just be

[3:32:39] Voice 7: really like you know um transparent and I think you always were but there were also there's all

[3:32:45] Voice 7: these kind of it is an art and a science we're trying to make it science but it's also an art so

[3:32:49] Voice 7: you know we're trying to say these are the reasons that that you'll see the thing their

[3:32:54] Voice 7: recommendations that that we'll be bringing forward and then just talking about roles and

[3:32:58] Voice 7: responsibilities a little bit for you um so always this is such a collaborative effort across the

[3:33:03] Voice 7: the team prior to me coming in and these adjustments. There was a bit more of a regional

[3:33:12] Voice 7: planning manager in the geography of that local trust area overseeing the work of the team.

[3:33:18] Voice 7: And what we're proposing is to be completely in line and talking with those folks, but

[3:33:24] Voice 7: that in fact, I would be the one overseeing the updates across all local trust areas.

[3:33:31] Voice 7: and that our team would be we in the past we've been pulling maybe some of the the resources from

[3:33:37] Voice 7: the the island planners of course they will also still completely be involved but we're thinking

[3:33:42] Voice 7: that we we're trying to kind of have a bit of um not confined but like uh consolidate sort of

[3:33:49] Voice 7: the the work to the regional planning team members which is uh three three ftes there's four folks

[3:33:55] Voice 7: folks, but one is a split part-time. And so that's, I think, one of the biggest differences

[3:34:01] Voice 7: you'll see. So, you know, example, Salt Spring, you know, Jason will be completely involved,

[3:34:07] Voice 7: you know, in that work. But ultimately, it's actually me and Peter, really, that are working

[3:34:13] Voice 7: more closely on making sure that that project hits its milestones and stuff like this. So

[3:34:19] Voice 7: I think that's probably the main difference. Maybe I'll just leave it there. I hope that

[3:34:23] Voice 7: that was the right level of detail for you.

[3:34:25] Voice 7: I'm happy to take any questions.

[3:34:26] Voice 7: And Stefan, obviously, if you want to jump in

[3:34:29] Voice 7: and just please do.

[3:34:31] Voice 7: Thank you.

[3:34:33] Voice 9: Thank you very much, Mary.

[3:34:34] Voice 9: And thank you for taking time out of your day off

[3:34:37] Voice 9: to be with us.

[3:34:38] Voice 9: I appreciate it.

[3:34:40] Voice 9: Stefan, go ahead.

[3:34:41] Voice 9: And then, Justin.

[3:34:43] Voice 9: Thank you, Chair.

[3:34:44] Voice 6: Again, yeah, I also appreciate Mary coming in on her day off.

[3:34:47] Voice 6: That's very much appreciated.

[3:34:49] Voice 6: I just wanted to sort of summarize a few key points too.

[3:34:52] Voice 6: this policy was adopted in 2022 I believe and so the implementation of this best management

[3:34:58] Voice 6: practices has been a slow rollout we've we created this team approach so that we could

[3:35:05] Voice 6: reallocate resources from one region to the other because historically that we were if a region

[3:35:13] Voice 6: lost a planner or an island planner to do a project and that region didn't get any work done

[3:35:18] Voice 6: And so we look to redistribute the work. And so as we were learning lessons through implementing that project and creating an internal terms of reference for that team, and we have finally fully staffed up this team for the first time since 2022, which is, I just want to ring a bell right now.

[3:35:38] Voice 6: so yay I guess in the in the northern office it's a gong and so it's you know to celebrate that

[3:35:44] Voice 6: moment and and of course with the change of leadership it's a really good time to

[3:35:48] Voice 6: have a look and this team approach is is it's it's almost ironic that we haven't had it considering

[3:35:56] Voice 6: how large our organization is and we were really working an individual sort of project management

[3:36:01] Voice 6: base and this this new approach of so the teamwork that Mary will be leading or is leading

[3:36:08] Voice 6: it is going to be it allows us now to report to you how we can effectively further implement the

[3:36:14] Voice 6: policies the trust council has already approved such as if you didn't quite hear what she said

[3:36:19] Voice 6: there you know we're looking at a 10-year program to update all ocp major ocps that's ambitious of

[3:36:27] Voice 6: course and you'll you'll hear that rolled out but this is this is the step one for informing you

[3:36:32] Voice 6: that we've turned our mind to thinking that we have a process in place for for doing that and

[3:36:38] Voice 6: you'll see that rolled out through business case approvals and how we start communicating this and

[3:36:42] Voice 6: stuff like that so there you go that's just my additional summary thank

[3:36:50] Voice 9: you stephan okay trustee

[3:36:52] Voice 9: patrick and then trustee burthwick yeah

[3:36:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): um well thank you uh regional planning manager stores

[3:36:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): i know this was a you're you're it's refreshing to have you on on on and bringing this new

[3:37:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): new views to all of this work. I think it's important. And I'm one that always encourages

[3:37:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): us to view even, you know, view, don't let policy, don't box ourselves in, you know,

[3:37:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): bring good ideas forward to do things. When I look at OCP health, if we're, I really encourage that

[3:37:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): we, yes, there's, you know, it's easy to do a checklist and say the document contains this,

[3:37:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): it doesn't contain this, it's out of date, and those things. But there's the real on-the-ground

[3:37:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): effects. You know, what is the housing situation? What is the health of the environment?

[3:37:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): You know, there's a real aspect there, and I think that has to be factored in. So you might have a

[3:37:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): relatively healthy document, but the community is falling apart. So that has to be kind of

[3:38:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): factored into deciding which ones get dealt with first. And the whole priority is, I think,

[3:38:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): the original policy says every trust can have one major project and one minor project. And

[3:38:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): I think we have to work away from those things. Let's do the work in a prioritized manner that

[3:38:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): makes sense. Now, it's hard if a local trust committee finds they don't have any work that

[3:38:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): it needs to be done. But if we have good, strong criteria on how work is done, hopefully it'd be

[3:38:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): more defensive rather than trying to distribute work across 12 local trust committees when maybe

[3:38:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): concentrating the work into one area might get something done. Because I think we have

[3:38:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): Gambiers on 10 plus years of trying to get their OCP put forward. Salt Springs on, I don't know,

[3:38:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): know five plus years on trying to put theirs forward you know we've got to find a way to get

[3:39:01] Trustee Patrick (probable): these projects done and concentrate the work toward those projects so we can get them done

[3:39:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): i think that's uh that's where the community everyone will celebrate even more um and i'm

[3:39:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): i'm a strong proponent of collaborative work and working we've got to be very cognizant that we

[3:39:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): have to do good planning in cooperation with others and especially infrastructure work we

[3:39:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): We can't do land use planning in isolation.

[3:39:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): And so that means robust, really good work.

[3:39:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): Finally, I will be, and I didn't send it to you, I'll send it to you.

[3:39:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): I will be bringing to Trust Council in September an idea of replacing the future projects list

[3:39:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): with something more practical and useful, like a planning issues register or something

[3:39:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): that has all of the works identified in a register that could even be coded across different

[3:39:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): islands, if however it's designed and brought forward, so that we can visibly see all of the

[3:40:01] Trustee Patrick (probable): work that needs to be done on these islands, because there's a lot of it. And it's not just

[3:40:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): a, you know, right now the future projects list is a political thing. You know, if we as trustees

[3:40:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): can put stuff on it, and then staff have technical lists of what they think needs to be updated.

[3:40:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): Well, all of this needs to be daylighted and on one list that gets analyzed every year so that it makes sense.

[3:40:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): And so that, you know, I think once everything is very open and visible and the priorities get applied, that makes everything far more defensible, easier.

[3:40:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): And not that the work has to be methodically done, but we always know if we get the right resources connected to the right level of work, we'll start having completions to that work, not just ongoing.

[3:40:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): work. So thank you and welcome.

[3:40:56] Voice 9: Thanks, Trustee Patrick. Trustee Borthwick, go ahead.

[3:41:01] Voice 14: Yeah. Welcome, RPM Storzer. Thank you for this. Appreciate it. And yeah, like Director Cermak,

[3:41:09] Voice 14: glad to see this team fully staffed. I hope that that leads to just more and more growth

[3:41:16] Voice 14: and efficacy and all the things. I have a fairly brief sort of technical question here. So

[3:41:26] Voice 14: I was looking at this and trying to frame it in terms of the major project that Trustee Graham

[3:41:33] Voice 14: and I are hopefully drawing towards the end of on Denman. So I noticed that the,

[3:41:41] Voice 14: and this is something that I noticed actually in that work, although different things,

[3:41:45] Voice 14: the upper and upper and lower bounds of things are sometimes uh interesting so we had a couple of

[3:41:50] Voice 14: uh that's not super important anyways the the question really was i had was um

[3:41:55] Voice 14: what happened what what does something qualify does it still qualify as a major

[3:42:00] Voice 14: uh uh major project or major policy regulatory work if it takes more than 18 months

[3:42:08] Voice 14: that's you know that that how would this fall within those bounds um yeah yeah yeah

[3:42:16] Voice 7: no absolutely

[3:42:18] Voice 7: and i i think 18 months to do updated both of those things that we're planning on that that's

[3:42:23] Voice 7: that's that's actually not our timeline right we're thinking more of a three-year trajectory

[3:42:27] Voice 7: and so

[3:42:28] Voice 7: um yeah i you know i think ultimately we could uh go ahead and um and update that policy

[3:42:36] Voice 7: when the time when the time comes but we are really looking at trying to you know you know

[3:42:42] Voice 7: give them due consideration give the work due consideration but with some sort of a proactive

[3:42:47] Voice 7: kind of like a little bit more I don't want to say that it wasn't but you know proactive thinking

[3:42:52] Voice 7: and planning and and sort of being able to walk through each update you know we are trying to

[3:42:59] Voice 7: also bound them so I just wanted to kind of

[3:43:01] Voice 7: respond to both of the things that you're that

[3:43:04] Voice 7: that I think I'm hearing out of this, which is like, yeah,

[3:43:06] Voice 7: we want it kind of bounded. Of course, you know, things happen.

[3:43:09] Voice 7: We can't help that either. Right.

[3:43:11] Voice 7: But we can at least go in with sort of some hopefully forethought,

[3:43:14] Voice 7: you know, about the data we need,

[3:43:18] Voice 7: the types of engagements we need to have, you know, early on with, you know,

[3:43:22] Voice 7: you're talking about partners, you know,

[3:43:23] Voice 7: maybe there's other regional partners or also definitely First Nations is for

[3:43:27] Voice 7: top of mind, but yeah, to try to make it, you know, have it to do for sure,

[3:43:31] Voice 7: but also bounded and uh yeah no i think i think

[3:43:35] Voice 7: we're we're we're allowing ourselves to just say

[3:43:37] Voice 7: actually 18 months is is that's too short for these projects yeah

[3:43:40] Voice 14: and and yeah my my like

[3:43:43] Voice 14: obviously we would love we would love to see our our we would love to see things happen in 18 months

[3:43:47] Voice 14: that would be sweet um but it's not you know that's that's a lot um yeah and and again i mean

[3:43:53] Voice 14: i think a little bit to what trustee patrick was just talking about you know the the importance of

[3:43:58] Voice 14: of, um, you know, interfacing effectively with other governing bodies, indigenous governing

[3:44:03] Voice 14: bodies, the province, whatever else my hope would be that as we, you know, my hope would

[3:44:09] Voice 14: be that we get to, and I think there's, there's elements of this already, but sort of like

[3:44:14] Voice 14: focusing on, um, really understanding the, the, the framework in which we work, uh, and

[3:44:20] Voice 14: the, the people with whom we're going to be dealing with on a regular basis will hopefully

[3:44:23] Voice 14: lead to um you know being able to streamline some of those things if we have a really like robust

[3:44:29] Voice 14: understanding of the the space we're working in and will allow us to be nimble even where

[3:44:33] Voice 14: our partners aren't always um if we make sure the holdups aren't on our end that's i think

[3:44:39] Voice 14: well ideally one would hope that everyone would aspire to that but we do we do anyways no i that's

[3:44:45] Voice 14: That's all I got.

[3:44:47] Voice 9: Thanks.

[3:44:47] Voice 9: Thanks, Sam.

[3:44:48] Voice 9: Trustee Elliot?

[3:44:52] Voice 11: Yeah, thank you so much for this.

[3:44:54] Voice 11: And I don't want to echo, but I do feel the same as everyone has spoken before, that this

[3:45:02] Voice 11: is going to be a welcome and much needed update, coordination, strategically aligned way to

[3:45:10] Voice 11: go about things.

[3:45:11] Voice 11: I guess my two questions are around prioritization and how do you envision the LTCs? I think there was a criteria that said LTC readiness and priority. It's endorsed as a priority and one of its top priorities.

[3:45:30] Voice 11: priorities so how does that conversation happen is that led by um the regional planning manager

[3:45:38] Voice 11: at the beginning of term is that led by um you know we've obviously got projects that are in

[3:45:45] Voice 11: stream and crossing over term so it's not like we restart something but so where does this fit and

[3:45:53] Voice 11: And sort of bouncing off of Trustee Patrick's sort of project register or needed items to address the housekeeping list, maybe.

[3:46:06] Voice 11: So how does that work?

[3:46:07] Voice 11: And so, yeah, we've got some really, yeah, I won't go into that.

[3:46:15] Voice 11: My second question is land use bylaws specifically for associated islands and the rural land use bylaw that covers, you know, most of the islands that don't have a land use bylaw.

[3:46:29] Voice 11: And so these I sort of see as a separate category almost. And I'm wondering if, well, because they're all similar, they all seem to be sort of the same vintage, and none of them have had much attention paid to them.

[3:46:50] Voice 11: And they never end up being a project except for Theta.

[3:46:54] Voice 11: Theta is the only one that's like, this is an unzoned area.

[3:46:58] Voice 11: We're going to address this in these two islands or something.

[3:47:01] Voice 11: But there's incredible incoherence between OCPs, LUBs, and particularly the Associated and Rural Land Use Bylaw.

[3:47:10] Voice 11: So how is that incorporated into sort of the prioritization exercise that you're envisioning?

[3:47:18] Voice 11: yeah

[3:47:21] Voice 7: and i i think very good questions and honestly um i think we're we're still working

[3:47:27] Voice 7: out we we haven't pulled all of like we we're using we're starting to use these criteria we're

[3:47:33] Voice 7: starting to dig into like what do we mean when we mean you know like more specifically what are we

[3:47:37] Voice 7: actually looking at and um you know at a high level i think would be some of these things right

[3:47:42] Voice 7: if it's wildly out of date that that's a real problem right so um and and and we we like so

[3:47:49] Voice 7: So I don't have the exact answer yet, but they're in scope definitely for our work.

[3:47:55] Voice 7: And so they'll be in the, like we haven't shoveled, we've sort of been looking at the next, like behind the scenes, we're looking at sort of that 10-year plan, that 15-year plan, that sort of thing.

[3:48:08] Voice 7: We're also looking at just like, well, we have to get these business cases together fairly soon.

[3:48:13] Voice 7: So what's happening?

[3:48:14] Voice 7: What are we asking for?

[3:48:14] Voice 7: What are the next ones?

[3:48:16] Voice 7: ones so i i think they're not in the next ones right now but like this is what we'll have to

[3:48:22] Voice 7: kind of they are in the mix to be considered and so um you you know you even just raising that and

[3:48:28] Voice 7: then sort of flagging it you know all of this we'll use like i said this is kind of the art

[3:48:32] Voice 7: and the science right it's like if people are like well just a second that you know it didn't

[3:48:36] Voice 7: it didn't make it all its way up you know it's going to be seven years before we start that

[3:48:39] Voice 7: that's that's actually not soon enough so i think there'll be a bit of that kind of stuff going on

[3:48:44] Voice 7: but absolutely um it's it's in the mix um so that that's one thing um um the other question i guess

[3:48:53] Voice 11: was oh yeah just about the yeah um so yeah and this is great to have a conversation because

[3:49:01] Voice 11: let's get practical um when you talk about a 10 and 15 year horizon and you know we still have

[3:49:08] Voice 11: Islands that are having massive, massive homes with, you know, built within 15 meters of the shoreline and 100 meters from an archaeological site and, you know, unknown potential.

[3:49:24] Voice 11: To me, these associated islands have far more precarity and could be addressed more holistically because, like I said, they seem to be all of the same vintage.

[3:49:37] Voice 11: So, could we think about maybe through something like Thetis? Thetis has an extraordinary number of land use bylaws. It's very confusing. You know, they don't want, the community doesn't need an OCP review.

[3:49:55] Voice 11: view um and so is there a potential for maybe a minor project um if they just were to request that

[3:50:04] Voice 11: that could do a model land use bylaw update for um some associated islands that could be a model

[3:50:11] Voice 11: and and rolled out because i think this is one of the like they're small islands but the impact

[3:50:17] Voice 11: is huge and there's so many of them so i just wanted to put that out there if there was a way

[3:50:22] Voice 11: to work in the associated islands it's um i think that's uh that's my real concern thanks

[3:50:32] Voice 9: so trusty graham and then i'll uh oh sorry stephan did you want to respond to that specifically

[3:50:39] Voice 9: that conversation sort

[3:50:42] Voice 6: of um not the associated islands i think uh rpm stortzer has commented

[3:50:47] Voice 6: that we you know lushing that out and we're hearing your feedback now and we'll incorporate

[3:50:52] Voice 6: that our most immediate priority is getting these business cases into the next uh you know fiscal

[3:50:57] Voice 6: cycle but this is an ongoing iterative cycle we'll be this is the first report to you this is the

[3:51:03] Voice 6: ongoing work you'll be we'll be talking about this for years uh to come and to incorporate that so

[3:51:07] Voice 6: there's a lot of time to channel those thoughts and refine them and we are very conscious that

[3:51:12] Voice 6: especially on an annual basis we'll be needing to refine how we're doing what are the lessons

[3:51:17] Voice 6: learned and then as well on a term basis because looking at a 10 to 15 year horizon we'll do the

[3:51:22] Voice 6: same thing so this is kind of like got you know cycles within cycles going on and a small reminder

[3:51:28] Voice 6: too yeah like you said we have the minor project um outlet for ltcs to to you know take on those

[3:51:35] Voice 6: small priorities and put out those fires as they're coming along um and and as i talked about

[3:51:40] Voice 6: out earlier too one of the policies that falls under my sort of purview but i've let languish

[3:51:47] Voice 6: as we review all the policies and that is the is is financing i think financing is a really key

[3:51:53] Voice 6: part of this question that we haven't reasonably tackled this term anyways and that is in the

[3:52:00] Voice 6: strategic plan to do so and can we make it so it's easier for ltcs to have access to funds sooner

[3:52:06] Voice 6: whether it's grant funding or other and then that helps us be a little bit more nimble with some

[3:52:10] Voice 6: achieving some of these goals as well. So, yeah, that's just a few comments I wanted to add.

[3:52:18] Voice 9: Thanks, Stefan. Trustee Graham, go ahead.

[3:52:22] Voice 5: Thank you, Chair. Gosh, so much to cover. And I apologize if I'm all over the map on this one,

[3:52:29] Voice 5: but just for context, I'm just finishing my fourth term as a trustee, 13 years, and I have

[3:52:37] Voice 5: I've watched planning departments try and wrestle the ability to update OCPs and LUBs for the entire time that I've been a trustee.

[3:52:47] Voice 5: And I've also been a member of financial planning and I've watched the small amount of money that's spent by local trust areas with respect to the entire budget.

[3:52:59] Voice 5: And that's always been troublesome to me because, you know, our islanders, our taxpayers, they're the employers.

[3:53:07] Voice 5: And there's a general mistrust of the trust area throughout the islands because I think they're not seeing their individual concerns being addressed as a top priority.

[3:53:21] Voice 5: So here's a suggestion from the political end, and I don't know who's going to be the chair of trust council next term.

[3:53:27] Voice 5: but if they could suggest to the all these lovely excited ambitious trustees as they're sitting

[3:53:34] Voice 5: around not to populate the strategic plan with ambitious ideas which will draw um capacity from

[3:53:42] Voice 5: the planning departments it always does and they will take priority over official community plan

[3:53:48] Voice 5: and land use by updates guaranteed because that has always been the way in fact i remember director

[3:53:53] Voice 5: Director Cermak suggesting one day, look, if we didn't have any strategic plan work,

[3:53:58] Voice 5: we might be able to get OCPs and LUVs up to snuff in one term. Gosh, I mean, that's radical. But

[3:54:06] Voice 5: you know what? That's not a bad way to start the first conversation with these new trustees. Hey,

[3:54:11] Voice 5: here's our opportunity to really tuck into each island, tease out the problems, deal with these

[3:54:18] Voice 5: as OCPs and LUVs, not to mention the policy statement implementation, which will trigger

[3:54:24] Voice 5: a lot of changes for each island. So that's, you know, if I could just throw the pixie dust at the

[3:54:30] Voice 5: political side of the trust council and say, look, focus on official community plan and land use

[3:54:36] Voice 5: by-law work for the next four years. Just do that. Finish these strategic plan items that you're

[3:54:41] Voice 5: going to inherit. Don't add anything else to it because you will get hijacked. Your planning

[3:54:47] Voice 5: department your your regional planning team will get hijacked it happens every term um

[3:54:55] Voice 5: yeah you know that's those are my words that i can share with you all based on my experience

[3:55:00] Voice 5: thank

[3:55:03] Voice 9: you just you graham i think that should be turned into a banner basically because you're

[3:55:10] Voice 9: absolutely right i i struggled with that in the beginning just looking at the budget i couldn't

[3:55:16] Voice 9: actually understand what was happening and then we all penny pinched around all of these OCP

[3:55:22] Voice 9: projects because that seemed to be how to do it but all the resources were sucked up by this other

[3:55:28] Voice 9: thing that we didn't seem to have control over anyway my thoughts so I just think that was

[3:55:34] Voice 9: everything everybody has said is excellent and I think it's great to see some and see this analysis

[3:55:40] Voice 9: is happening and the thing i thought about was a bit out of the box one is um the reason we kind

[3:55:49] Voice 9: of you know think it's going to take years and years and years is like what if you threw money

[3:55:54] Voice 9: at it and you said i'm not going to hire more staff i will not support that but uh do a kind

[3:56:00] Voice 9: of a scenario scenario a we um you know ask you for 25 000 for this and 15 000 for that

[3:56:09] Voice 9: that and it'll take you know 15 years or whatever and scenario b we need two million dollars to or

[3:56:18] Voice 9: 500 000 whatever and we will fast track it and update all the ocps and the lubs in five years

[3:56:26] Voice 9: we will bring in a project team of consultants i mean i'm just thinking out of the box here and

[3:56:31] Voice 9: there are words coming out of my mouth but i think that's worth putting that scenario on the table

[3:56:36] Voice 9: because i think it's just painful to watch how the goalposts are changing all the time while

[3:56:43] Voice 9: you go through these agonizing endless community discussions um with you know the trust policy

[3:56:49] Voice 9: statement you know provincial legislation everything shifting around so you feel like

[3:56:55] Voice 9: this is like trying to empty the ocean with a teaspoon we are never actually going to draw a

[3:57:00] Voice 9: line under this update and say you know update successful and you know that's how the OCPs were

[3:57:09] Voice 9: done in the 90s albeit with provincial support there was a five-year period with effectively

[3:57:15] Voice 9: peak load funding to get it done and so that's one thing I think about I also think about the

[3:57:22] Voice 9: fact there are plenty of islands that actually don't need anything much and they're given a low

[3:57:28] Voice 9: priority but actually they could be just like would you volunteer to be just put on the shelf

[3:57:32] Voice 9: for the foreseeable future and make it explicit because you know the rate of development growth

[3:57:40] Voice 9: the amount of development that can happen is so limited i mean saturn being a case in point

[3:57:47] Voice 9: um that arguably you could just say um you know would make it clearer and reduce the number that

[3:57:55] Voice 9: you had to prioritize and fund and so that was one thing about the resources like just do a scenario

[3:58:02] Voice 9: of extremes and see where that landed and that would be one of the things to go to the province

[3:58:11] Voice 9: i know there's no money but still you should try so you know the conservancy goes with their

[3:58:17] Voice 9: five-year plan why don't we go with the five-year plan and say you know we could do it fast or we

[3:58:23] Voice 9: could do it slow and then the other thing I was thinking about was the growth pressures

[3:58:31] Voice 9: it's not really as simple as that first of all you know the number of residents goes up very slowly

[3:58:37] Voice 9: even though people who are planning to retire to the Gulf Islands are building mega mansions

[3:58:42] Voice 9: and they're not counted in the growth pressure really so it needs to be something more than

[3:58:50] Voice 9: population increase it should be i think one element should be how much development potential

[3:58:57] Voice 9: remains and that should actually and i don't want to get into carrying capacity or anything i just

[3:59:05] Voice 9: want to know how many lots were you know envisaged on an island how much lot development potential

[3:59:12] Voice 9: still remains full stop and you know on saturn and that's very limited in other areas i don't know

[3:59:20] Voice 9: as a percentage of what's already happened and that should influence the scalability of

[3:59:26] Voice 9: everything we are doing because everything we're doing is geared up as though we were on a

[3:59:32] Voice 9: greenfield site 80 100 years ago and we're not and we're not shrinking or targeting we're just

[3:59:40] Voice 9: trying to continue to boil the ocean and i feel that that is inappropriate and we should target

[3:59:47] Voice 9: target and really figure out what the actual target is.

[3:59:53] Voice 9: And it's limited.

[3:59:56] Voice 9: And so I was thinking about that and I just quickly look for.

[4:00:00] Voice 9: look through my notes here um what else did i think about and anyway i i think i'll leave it

[4:00:12] Voice 9: at that oh yeah there was one thing i wondered about was um so you distinguish between the

[4:00:18] Voice 9: projects on the basis of less than five thousand dollars but that's external funding and really

[4:00:24] Voice 9: and we are moving towards that better and better each year uh i want to see the resources

[4:00:31] Voice 9: in terms of planner hours etc etc because you could have a five thousand dollar

[4:00:38] Voice 9: um project that's going to you know tie up five planners for three years

[4:00:44] Voice 9: um you know what i mean that it's not as simple as that you know financial number is the cutoff

[4:00:52] Voice 9: point you have to build in the internal resources that are needed because you can bring in consultants

[4:00:59] Voice 9: consultants but of course that has a risk because somebody has to manage them and has to make sure

[4:01:04] Voice 9: that they're on board so balancing that is tricky and i think that a cutoff of five thousand dollars

[4:01:12] Voice 9: for external i mean i didn't even understand that first time we did the budget you know

[4:01:17] Voice 9: i don't understand it's only going to cost five thousand dollars to do this

[4:01:20] Voice 9: um so so i think that needs to be clearer as well okay i'll stop there and thank you all for the

[4:01:27] Voice 9: the discussion. I think it was a really good discussion in all. Thank you. Trustee Graham,

[4:01:33] Voice 9: back to you.

[4:01:35] Voice 5: Thank you, Chair. I just want two quick things. I want to thank you for introducing

[4:01:39] Voice 5: the idea of the growth that we are facing. And I want to show, I want to share with the committee

[4:01:45] Voice 5: the work that Denman's doing with their housing review. We have suggested, we've got first

[4:01:53] Voice 5: reading so we're looking at our community to feedback but what we're proposing for Denman

[4:01:58] Voice 5: is we're increasing the minimum lot size to 64 hectares which will basically stop all subdivision

[4:02:06] Voice 5: unless there is a proven community benefit within that subdivision so we're actually closing the

[4:02:13] Voice 5: drawbridge we're saying no more there is no more growth

[4:02:15] Voice 5: whatever we can handle that exists today

[4:02:18] Voice 5: that's what we've got and because we're a land use i mean that's what we do we have the we have

[4:02:24] Voice 5: the capacity and the ability and the authority to do that and i don't know why we haven't

[4:02:29] Voice 5: entertained that too bad we didn't do that back in 1974 anyway that would have been brilliant

[4:02:35] Voice 5: but so that's that's the one thing and the other thing um i i heard that in the policy um 5.9.1

[4:02:44] Voice 5: One, you know, these great works completed between six to 18 months.

[4:02:50] Voice 5: And I heard from Director Storzner that, no, we're looking at three years.

[4:02:54] Voice 5: Well, our targeted OCP review is probably going to take six years.

[4:03:00] Voice 5: That's the reality.

[4:03:02] Voice 5: So, you know, double your expectation because things will happen.

[4:03:06] Voice 5: Your consultation with First Nations will take longer than you think it will.

[4:03:09] Voice 5: And other things will pop up unexpectedly.

[4:03:12] Voice 5: unexpectedly so let's you've got to be realistic about this you've got to protect your your

[4:03:17] Voice 5: planning staff by not asking them to do too much and stop growth period and that will also make us

[4:03:23] Voice 5: a much more effective uh land use authority well

[4:03:29] Voice 9: i'd just like to respond to that if i may that's

[4:03:32] Voice 9: a bit of a revolutionary approach but and i wonder like what but what happens to people who had

[4:03:39] Voice 9: subdivision capacity and value, how do you talk to them about this?

[4:03:46] Voice 5: If I may, I wrote in my last Flagstone article, it was a simple line, I said, and what this

[4:03:55] Voice 5: removal of subdivision potential will do, will support community before profit.

[4:04:01] Voice 5: And that's pretty much how you do it.

[4:04:03] Voice 9: OK, so you say that if they bring a compelling case to you that is not exclusively about profit, it will be considered?

[4:04:15] Voice 5: Exactly.

[4:04:15] Voice 5: Okay.

[4:04:16] Voice 9: It's interesting because, of course, the initial Islands Trust mandate was the so-called 10-acre freeze, which, you know, I didn't know that initially, which was the 10-acre freeze you cannot subdivide until you have an official community plan.

[4:04:35] Voice 9: And that was what brought the Islands Trust into being, basically.

[4:04:40] Voice 9: so it's back to the future trustee graham with a larger lot size i have to say okay i will stop

[4:04:50] Voice 9: anybody else want to uh comment on any of this okay um great well that was just where um that

[4:05:02] Voice 9: was a brief thing so do you intend to take this to trust council then or what happens next with

[4:05:08] Voice 9: this work that you're doing come back to research planning oh mary yes go ahead um

[4:05:15] Voice 7: love i i it's

[4:05:17] Voice 7: funny i'm looking at stefan too but he doesn't know that i think the you know our intent was

[4:05:22] Voice 7: just to to daylight for you um a little of the thinking behind the the the work you'll encounter

[4:05:29] Voice 7: it and now as well and i think we do need to consider you know um what exactly we want to

[4:05:35] Voice 7: we need to start conveying this kind of across the organization so i'd actually yeah kind of

[4:05:39] Voice 7: Stefan and I need to talk a little bit about that. Having said that, one thing that will be

[4:05:44] Voice 7: coming to Trust Council, and this is probably where we'll, I would imagine, nestle some of

[4:05:49] Voice 7: this information is around, and again, coming through you is around the business cases. And so,

[4:05:56] Voice 7: you know, giving a little bit of the structure and a little bit of the thinking in those business

[4:06:00] Voice 7: cases is likely, but I'm sort of just talking, just talking. So I, but basically, yeah, I think

[4:06:09] Voice 7: the main thing we really wanted to show you was when we come forward with the business cases

[4:06:13] Voice 7: this is the type of thinking this is the structure within more start which we're starting to work

[4:06:19] Voice 7: to um to to get us there so that's that was what i was thinking we were doing and yeah as far as

[4:06:24] Voice 7: trust counsel maybe stephanie please please do jump in thank

[4:06:28] Voice 9: you very much um trustee elliott

[4:06:29] Voice 9: go ahead yeah

[4:06:33] Voice 11: if someone could just remind me what happened to the my minor project criteria

[4:06:38] Voice 11: Terri, that I thought was coming back to Trust Council, if I'm not mistaken.

[4:06:46] Voice 11: Go ahead, Stephen.

[4:06:48] Voice 6: So two questions there.

[4:06:50] Voice 6: I'll do the first one.

[4:06:53] Voice 6: If the regional planning committee would like, you could refer this briefing to Trust Council.

[4:06:59] Voice 6: That way they all, that's a great way for them to all get a heads up.

[4:07:02] Voice 6: I'd be, you know, that's fine.

[4:07:05] Voice 6: It's very informative.

[4:07:06] Voice 6: and it like we said it's just the first step to letting you guys know and there's going to be a

[4:07:10] Voice 6: lot more thinking going on second thing the minor projects as i mentioned before we actually did

[4:07:16] Voice 6: draft this rfd or this briefing originally to include minor project criteria to speak to it

[4:07:20] Voice 6: so you could kind of see how the prioritization is working itself out through all the work

[4:07:25] Voice 6: it got muddy and unclear we want to stay on focus so we pulled that out but that so that work just

[4:07:31] Voice 6: kind of took a back seat to this work and we will we intend to return to regional planning committee

[4:07:37] Voice 6: with the minor project work but of course um we would eventually take that work to trust council

[4:07:43] Voice 6: to endorse the criteria work yeah

[4:07:46] Voice 9: can i just say that if you do go to trust council with this i'm

[4:07:50] Voice 9: not saying yes or no either way that's the discussion the subject is major project work

[4:07:56] Voice 9: and then it jumps into effectively policy work and I know that for regional planning it is policy

[4:08:05] Voice 9: work but I think if I was a new trustee I might find that a little bit of a disconnect so maybe

[4:08:13] Voice 9: open with you know the major project work for regional planning is policy work by and large

[4:08:19] Voice 9: or whatever just to make that connection very very clear does that make sense if

[4:08:27] Voice 6: I may respond

[4:08:27] Voice 6: not entirely i certainly the official community plan is chock-a-block full of policies but it's

[4:08:33] Voice 6: also you know a lot more than that and um we also do the land use bylaw which is all regulations

[4:08:39] Voice 6: and then we do other strategic work so um i'm not sure i'm getting the full connect well

[4:08:45] Voice 9: if when you

[4:08:47] Voice 9: head into your background you move straight into major policy regulatory work and minor policy

[4:08:52] Voice 9: policy regulatory work and maybe I'm being picky but the title under the subject is major project

[4:09:02] Voice 9: work so it's kind of nested within it and just that sort of nesting connection might be helpful

[4:09:09] Voice 9: that you do other project work but this is specifically the policy work that you're

[4:09:14] Voice 9: talking about anyway I leave it with you as a thought trustee Elliot go ahead

[4:09:19] Voice 11: thanks so in

[4:09:24] Voice 11: With respect to minor project criteria, I think this is going to be actually the biggest point of confusion for any kind of a shift for new council members or returning trustees who have a certain expectation that, you know, as Trustee Patrick said, they'll be allowed one minor project per LTC.

[4:09:46] Voice 11: seat and they get to you know they get an office and we want to show our community that we've been

[4:09:52] Voice 11: hearing you know we got elected we've been listening want to work on that short-term

[4:09:57] Voice 11: vacation rental or close the loop on this minor project so i would say actually if if do you think

[4:10:03] Voice 11: we could have that or sort of fleshed out and clarified even if it's a separate briefing for

[4:10:10] Voice 11: September Trust Council and would it be ready for orientation packages like how do you imagine

[4:10:17] Voice 11: presenting sort of this update and I and I think these these should be two separate briefings I

[4:10:24] Voice 11: think it's probably you're probably right it was maybe confusing to have it together but

[4:10:28] Voice 11: this is a great overview I would definitely support sending it to Trust Council but I would

[4:10:33] Voice 11: would want to also see that minor project criteria and consideration because yeah it was it's been

[4:10:41] Voice 11: uncomfortable to start talking about it when all of trust council has not seen it and just you know

[4:10:47] Voice 11: we had a discussion at rpc but the local trustees are like what are you talking about thanks i guess

[4:10:57] Voice 6: i'll respond to that chair um if the rpc wishes we yeah we're talking about you know prioritization

[4:11:04] Voice 6: of um like any project work if you would like those to travel together to trust council

[4:11:11] Voice 6: certainly can work on that i i would feel like the regional planning committee would want to

[4:11:16] Voice 6: sponsor that work rather than just going directly to trust council but um if you want to pass a

[4:11:21] Voice 6: resolution that staff draft a companion briefing about prioritization work we can just kind of

[4:11:26] Voice 6: skip the rpc and go straight to trust council i'm really happy to do that so uh no we've already

[4:11:31] Voice 11: We've already

[4:11:31] Voice 11: seen a draft and it was like, okay, this is going in a good direction. It makes sense. And I'm just not recalling, you know, more work was needed to be done. And were we going to see that again? We have one more meeting in August.

[4:11:50] Voice 11: so i would definitely you know love to see that again and then send it on to trust council

[4:11:58] Voice 11: whatever you suggest i think is great i don't need to have rpc discuss the minor project criteria

[4:12:06] Voice 11: we've already discussed it and i thought staff were drafting amendments and um so i would be

[4:12:14] Voice 11: comfortable just sending it on to trust council but that's me because i've had some conversation

[4:12:20] Voice 11: about it and i know and we need some criteria and you know i remember the conversation i

[4:12:27] Voice 9: i would be

[4:12:28] Voice 9: comfortable too because i think um they go together and it's almost better to present them together

[4:12:36] Voice 9: and make the difference between them and rather than discuss one and say there is another one

[4:12:42] Voice 9: out there someplace and we'll tell you about that later so yeah i i'd be okay with that as well

[4:12:49] Voice 9: So what about you, Trustee? Oh, go ahead, Mary.

[4:12:53] Voice 7: Yeah, I just wanted to sort of say, like, this is thinking, like Stefan said, this is thinking we've been doing because we have, they do mesh, right?

[4:13:01] Voice 7: It's important to know when one is one and one is the other.

[4:13:04] Voice 7: And so we all are clear on that. And we can, we can be clear about when you get one and when you don't get to the other and why you get it.

[4:13:10] Voice 7: And that's sort of like everything that you're saying. So, yeah, I just wanted to say that thinking is in, is behind the scenes.

[4:13:16] Voice 7: so over to you to keep discussing how how it gets you know

[4:13:20] Voice 7: taillighted or whatever but

[4:13:21] Voice 7: or or maybe just knowing it's behind the scenes is helpful as well

[4:13:27] Voice 6: let's just throw in a little more conversation there chair d on page 15 is on your follow-up

[4:13:32] Voice 6: action list is the resolution that we were responding to to report back and if you're

[4:13:37] Voice 6: comfortable let's just reporting directly to trust council following up on your resolution

[4:13:41] Voice 6: And that was that the RPC requests staff to strengthen the minor project criteria to include a clear, explicit, trust-wide resource allocation lens.

[4:13:53] Voice 6: This should consider overall demand on planning resources, community scale and complexity in alignment with federation-wide priorities.

[4:14:01] Voice 6: And staff are more than comfortable to present that directly to Trust Council in companion with this, assuming that ECA approves it on the agenda.

[4:14:10] Voice 9: Okay, yes. Do you need a motion or is that just going to happen anyway? You'll just...

[4:14:16] Voice 6: No, we don't need to. I'm happy to just take that under our direction because you've

[4:14:20] Voice 6: already made the resolution. We're just, by this discussion, we'll just advance it directly to

[4:14:26] Voice 6: Trust Council since you're advising

[4:14:28] Voice 6: Trust Council. Okay,

[4:14:29] Voice 9: so you'll take what you've done here,

[4:14:31] Voice 9: you'll take the work on the minor projects, marry them together in some wholesome way,

[4:14:36] Voice 9: and go to trust council with it because it would be helpful for new trustees to have it you know

[4:14:43] Voice 9: go ahead and

[4:14:46] Voice 9: actually

[4:14:48] Voice 11: i'm wondering if these need to go to trust council not necessarily as a

[4:14:55] Voice 11: sorry it's really loud um not as a necessary as a briefing yes but would there be a recommendation

[4:15:01] Voice 11: recommendation from the committee that um you know rpc's next major project for instance is

[4:15:09] Voice 11: are we setting major projects this late in the term what's the discussion on what what is our

[4:15:15] Voice 11: work plan no our work plan is set by council so we're not going to change that um okay i just

[4:15:22] Voice 11: wondered if i if we would have a resolution to be like yeah rpc in future should be um looking at

[4:15:30] Voice 11: the communication and delivery and the prioritization and working with the regional

[4:15:36] Voice 11: planning team on that whole thing, just so that trustees can both advise and be informed as the

[4:15:43] Voice 11: process evolved. I think that's really squarely in RPC's terms of reference, delivery of local

[4:15:51] Voice 11: planning services. So how minor on major projects or categories and criteria and who's deciding and

[4:15:59] Voice 11: And how that all works probably should be RPC's role.

[4:16:04] Voice 11: But I'm still a little confused over who sets work plans.

[4:16:09] Voice 9: I'm actually thinking, Toby, that this is kind of part of corporate planning.

[4:16:17] Voice 9: It's like a compendium of documents that feed into the corporate planning process and the budget.

[4:16:24] Voice 9: It's like that budget guide that we have that we update every year.

[4:16:29] Voice 9: so financial planning reviews that and updates it you know there's constraints and guidelines

[4:16:36] Voice 9: and this would almost be something that yearly that regional planning perhaps should

[4:16:41] Voice 9: just quickly review and say yeah it's good to go or not like it doesn't necessarily need to be you

[4:16:47] Voice 9: know rewritten but um re-endorsed decibels would be a better word for it but i don't know what do

[4:16:56] Voice 9: What do you think, Stephan, about that?

[4:16:59] Voice 6: We can do this in many different ways.

[4:17:02] Voice 6: I think the reason we're here today is because we recognize it's in your terms of reference.

[4:17:07] Voice 6: And we're asking for you to endorse to Trust Council that we continue on this way.

[4:17:14] Voice 6: Trust Council has told us what they want to do and why they want to do it.

[4:17:17] Voice 6: And what staff are doing is just reporting on how we're doing it.

[4:17:20] Voice 6: and so for us reporting on the how it's more of a it's not we're not see i mean we're seeking

[4:17:27] Voice 6: feedback but we're not seeking too much reconsideration if you know what it means so

[4:17:32] Voice 6: that's kind of what we're paid to do so this is a way for us to make sure that you're on

[4:17:36] Voice 6: in harmony with what we're doing and we're all working together and um yeah so i think

[4:17:42] Voice 6: and and on that thought i am going to change my mind on a resolution mainly because you don't

[4:17:47] Voice 6: have a resolution to forward this work to the Trust Council and we should probably get a

[4:17:52] Voice 6: resolution that you do want to forward this particular briefing and then while you're at it

[4:17:55] Voice 6: might as well say forward the other briefing too or do you know what I mean so please forward

[4:18:00] Voice 6: the briefing whatever about the major project work and a briefing about the minor project work

[4:18:09] Voice 6: prioritization criteria to Trust Council so hope that helps.

[4:18:14] Voice 9: Okay Trustee Elliot go ahead and

[4:18:17] Voice 9: Sam is about to disappear, I think.

[4:18:20] Voice 11: I'll plead to make the motion then.

[4:18:21] Voice 11: I move that Regional Planning Committee request staff

[4:18:27] Voice 11: to forward the briefing on major...

[4:18:31] Voice 11: Oh, now I lost the page.

[4:18:32] Voice 11: Major project, regional planning team, major project work.

[4:18:36] Voice 11: Come on, Toby.

[4:18:40] Voice 11: Where is the title?

[4:18:43] Voice 9: Major project work in the regional planning team.

[4:18:46] Voice 11: And the regional planning team, as well as the updated minor project work, or the minor project criteria briefing.

[4:18:57] Voice 11: What was that? Minor, down there. Minor project. What did you say? Page 11?

[4:19:05] Voice 6: 15, I believe.

[4:19:06] Voice 11: 15. Minor project criteria. Updated minor project work criteria.

[4:19:18] Voice 11: So I move that regional planning team request staff to forward to Trust Council the major project and regional planning team briefing and minor project work criteria or updated minor project work criteria briefing to Trust Council.

[4:19:40] Voice 11: Sorry, Rob.

[4:19:41] Voice 11: Okay.

[4:19:42] Voice 9: And Trustee Graham seconds that. Okay. And I call the vote. In favour? Raise your hands. Okay, that carries unanimously. Thank you very much. Thank you for doing that so quickly, Toby. You are a superstar at pulling those things together quickly. My brain just goes to mush. So thank you.

[4:20:08] Voice 9: um okay so we are done with that thank you very much mary for taking time to be with us i really

[4:20:15] Voice 9: appreciate it and nice to see you thank you good to have you on board and i hope you got some sort

[4:20:21] Voice 9: of brain transfer module from robert so you can go look we tried that in 1999 it didn't work then

[4:20:29] Voice 9: either yes

[4:20:31] Voice 2: we'll have to work on that uh like historical right uh yeah okay thank you so much

[4:20:38] Voice 9: take care of everybody thank you um okay new business none work program i don't think i had

[4:20:52] Voice 9: any thing to say about that anybody want to speak about that chair

[4:20:59] Voice 14: i'm just gonna say that i'm gonna

[4:21:01] Voice 14: to take off i trust that you guys have got all of this well in hand i'm sorry i've got to run

[4:21:06] Voice 14: okay

[4:21:07] Voice 9: take care thanks bye um so i think by consensus we are okay nobody's raised their

[4:21:18] Voice 9: hands that i've missed no okay so that's okay and then the next meeting is september the 25th

[4:21:29] Voice 9: which will be our last meeting i assume are you bringing cake stefan

[4:21:35] Voice 6: i will but i'm going to be the only one who eats it

[4:21:38] Voice 9: virtual cake everybody okay

[4:21:42] Voice 9: okay everybody thanks so much for your patience i i kind of i'm always torn at these meetings

[4:21:47] Voice 9: because we're a small group we all get to you know really discuss things which can be good and bad

[4:21:53] Voice 9: but on balance i really like them i always come finish the meeting thinking i heard a lot of

[4:21:59] Voice 9: really interesting good opinions so i hope you all feel that that you don't go away thinking like oh

[4:22:05] Voice 9: thank you for your patience and uh it was good to be here with you

[4:22:09] Voice 9: okay take

[4:22:11] Voice 6: care everybody thanks rob bye-bye

[4:22:14] Voice 9: thanks everyone