North Pender Island Local Trust Committee regular meeting, February 25, 2021

[0:00:00] Trustee McConchie (probable): just wondering are yeah william maybe robert is william are we are william and narissa joining

[0:00:06] Trustee McConchie (probable): us at some point during the meeting

[0:00:07] Voice 3: no um they hadn't planned on them and them joining us they

[0:00:11] Trustee McConchie (probable): were just it was just because they were going to join last meeting and then they were unable to

[0:00:14] Trustee McConchie (probable): attend right

[0:00:15] Voice 3: um i

[0:00:16] Trustee McConchie (probable): can see if they're available no no it's fine i just i mean it's it's yeah

[0:00:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): good morning just stand by we'll uh open the meeting in just a just a moment just letting the

[0:00:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): system activate here make sure everybody who wants to be on is on looks like everything's

[0:00:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): running trustees ready to go all right well good morning i'd like to call this meeting of the north

[0:00:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): pender local trust committee to order this meeting is being recorded and also live streamed i want to

[0:00:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): acknowledge how fortunate we are to be able to gather today in locations all across the

[0:01:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): traditional territories of the Coast Salish people. This morning my heart goes out to the

[0:01:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): Cowichan tribes over in the Duncan area that are fighting an outbreak of COVID-19. We should be

[0:01:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): thinking of them. I'm Laura Patrick, elected on Salt Spring Island and the chair of this local

[0:01:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): trust committee. I'm joined today by Trustee Ben McConkie and Trustee Deb Morrison and together

[0:01:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): we make up your North Pender Island local trust committee. This meeting is an official forum of

[0:01:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): of your local trust committee to make decisions

[0:01:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): about land use planning matters

[0:01:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): and discuss relevant business.

[0:01:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): I also wanna add that this is a place of employment

[0:01:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): despite the fact that many of our staff

[0:01:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): are coming from their own homes,

[0:01:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): they have the right to a safe and respectful workplace.

[0:01:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): We're grateful for the ability

[0:01:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): to have this electronic meeting,

[0:01:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): trustees, staff and the public don't have to travel

[0:01:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): and we're honoring the provincial health orders

[0:01:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): during the pandemic.

[0:01:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): We appreciate your understanding

[0:01:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): that there could be a technical difficulties

[0:01:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): throughout the meeting and we will work to overcome those issues as quickly as we can.

[0:02:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): We've muted everyone's mics that are in attendance so that there's no audio disruptions and I'll

[0:02:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): review in a little bit. There's going to be several opportunities to correspond with us today and I

[0:02:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): will outline how that'll work in the agenda so please wait a moment. We have several staff

[0:02:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): members joining us today. We have Maple Hung, our office administrator. Maple does an amazing job of

[0:02:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): of making this meeting happen.

[0:02:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): So thank you for being here today, Mabel.

[0:02:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): Shannon Braford is our minute taker.

[0:02:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): Good morning, Shannon.

[0:02:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): Robert Kojima, regional planning manager.

[0:02:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): Hello, Robert.

[0:02:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): And we have Kim Stockdale, a planner,

[0:02:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): and Phil Testamal will be joining us shortly

[0:02:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): as also a planner.

[0:02:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): So we have before us a very full agenda.

[0:02:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): Trustees, are there any changes, additions,

[0:02:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): or corrections we need to make to the agenda?

[0:02:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): agenda the

[0:02:53] Trustee McConchie (probable): only thing i wanted to add chair patrick was uh discussion about communications

[0:02:56] Trustee McConchie (probable): but i'm not even sure i mean if you throw it under new business but if we don't get to it

[0:03:01] Trustee McConchie (probable): you know uh i understand as well but it's something we need to we need to address true

[0:03:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): we can do that

[0:03:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): and then um ben i hear you and i support how important the communications are we could always

[0:03:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): have just a special small you know a meeting that uh just on that topic if we need to yeah just for

[0:03:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): for

[0:03:18] Trustee McConchie (probable): clarification just because communications is a big broad word it's often a degree people use

[0:03:22] Trustee McConchie (probable): you know

[0:03:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): it's like a

[0:03:23] Trustee McConchie (probable): random i'm specifically talking about like mail the the usefulness of

[0:03:27] Trustee McConchie (probable): mail outs versus internet communication that's basically all i want to talk about

[0:03:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): no i agree

[0:03:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): so

[0:03:32] Trustee McConchie (probable): it is under

[0:03:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): 50.1 i was gonna say it's already there and oh my

[0:03:37] Trustee McConchie (probable): bad oh it is i'm i'm sorry thank

[0:03:39] Trustee McConchie (probable): you for pointing that out robert yeah

[0:03:40] Voice 3: just one suggestion chair patrick um potentially moving

[0:03:45] Voice 3: 12.2 Dakin above the subdivision James Island so that the applicants can sure

[0:03:53] Voice 3: probably less discussion

[0:03:55] Trustee McConchie (probable): that's a good suggestion Robert trustees

[0:03:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): agree yep

[0:03:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): okay we helped me remind me and also we don't have breaks scheduled in but

[0:04:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): please trustees staff please wave your hands at me I'll move forward at

[0:04:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): whatever speed but get my attention and we should have a break here and there to

[0:04:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): to keep ourselves okay.

[0:04:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right.

[0:04:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): Can we approve the agenda as amended

[0:04:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): through a general consent?

[0:04:22] Trustee McConchie (probable): Yes.

[0:04:22] Trustee McConchie (probable): Thank you.

[0:04:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): So we have trustee reports here.

[0:04:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): Who'd like to go first?

[0:04:29] Trustee McConchie (probable): I can go first.

[0:04:30] Trustee McConchie (probable): We recently had a meeting.

[0:04:32] Trustee McConchie (probable): Sorry, I don't know if you can see me.

[0:04:34] Trustee McConchie (probable): My camera angle is a little sketch.

[0:04:37] Trustee McConchie (probable): Yeah, it's been a really busy month.

[0:04:40] Trustee McConchie (probable): This past week was spent a lot of time

[0:04:42] Trustee McConchie (probable): learning about James Island, to be honest, and communicating with our First Nations liaison

[0:04:48] Trustee McConchie (probable): and trying to understand the complexities of this particular issue. So I'd say a lot of my time was

[0:04:53] Trustee McConchie (probable): spent on this particular agenda and noting that we have a big agenda for the next two years before

[0:05:00] Trustee McConchie (probable): our term is up. So I've been spending a lot of time basically reading over all the great staff

[0:05:06] Trustee McConchie (probable): reports from all of our staff members who have been a part of this land use bylaw review and

[0:05:12] Trustee McConchie (probable): and trying to formulate my thoughts

[0:05:14] Trustee McConchie (probable): for the next steps moving forward.

[0:05:16] Trustee McConchie (probable): So that's, and also lots of work.

[0:05:19] Trustee McConchie (probable): I wanna give a shout out of course,

[0:05:21] Trustee McConchie (probable): to all our first responders and everyone at the school

[0:05:23] Trustee McConchie (probable): that are doing an amazing job

[0:05:25] Trustee McConchie (probable): of making sure our community is safe.

[0:05:28] Trustee McConchie (probable): So thanks, that's all I have to say for today.

[0:05:36] Voice 5: I'll go ahead if that's okay, Chair Patrick.

[0:05:39] Voice 5: Oh, you're muted.

[0:05:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): Sorry, yes, please.

[0:05:46] Voice 5: All right, so yes, I wanted to say thank you again

[0:05:50] Voice 5: to community who and all those in who come and go from the gulf islands who have been abiding by

[0:05:56] Voice 5: the bc health regulations and encourage people to continue doing that i know it's a long time

[0:06:02] Voice 5: that we've been working under that issue um but we you know as actually vaccinations start to roll

[0:06:09] Voice 5: out in different communities we just really want to be cautious still until we are safe in this

[0:06:15] Voice 5: space um for our community and for everyone we care about um so um thanks to to staff into the

[0:06:24] Voice 5: conversations we've been having around james island and around other issues in the reports

[0:06:27] Voice 5: that's been really helpful um we also have some other things across the trust that are happening

[0:06:34] Voice 5: um around the management review around the trust policy statement there is on march

[0:06:44] Voice 5: I'll get that on my calendar. March 3rd.

[0:06:46] Voice 5: March 3rd, thank you. March 3rd, there is an open house

[0:06:50] Voice 5: that's happening across the trust around the trust policy statement. And we'll post that on

[0:06:54] Voice 5: Facebook. It is coming out in the Pender post as well. So please keep an eye on that. Really

[0:06:59] Voice 5: important to get your voice into that and hear and talk about that. And hopefully that effort

[0:07:07] Voice 5: will really see a big change in the trust policy statement with respect to reconciliation, with

[0:07:12] Voice 5: with respect to climate change, housing in the trust area.

[0:07:15] Voice 5: So really think to come to that space that'd be helpful.

[0:07:20] Voice 5: And I think that I will leave it at that for now.

[0:07:23] Voice 5: Thanks.

[0:07:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you very much.

[0:07:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): And yes, there's a whole series of meetings coming.

[0:07:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): So we have our trust council.

[0:07:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): It will be in March, March 9th through 11th.

[0:07:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): On March 9th on that evening from seven till nine

[0:07:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): will be the delegations in town hall.

[0:07:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): so please look for that link on our website you're all also you're welcome to listen into

[0:07:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): our meetings three days is a long time but you're welcome to listen along yes and we have that March

[0:07:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): 3rd meeting there is a requirement to register for the March 3rd virtual open house for the

[0:08:01] Trustee Patrick (probable): policy statement work and that is also on our website for that link and with that we will get

[0:08:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): get going. So today, excuse me, there's going to be three opportunities to hear from you. And I

[0:08:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): just want to take a moment to explain what they are so that you can choose when to speak. There's

[0:08:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): no need to repeat yourself. So the town hall, so the town hall, the community information meeting

[0:08:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): and a public hearing. So the town hall is your opportunity to ask us questions that are not

[0:08:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): related to the short-term vacation rental project. I would ask you to hold those questions and

[0:08:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): comments until the community information meeting and the public hearing. So if you could town hall

[0:08:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): welcome comments that are not related to the short-term vacation rental. And we're also asking

[0:08:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): that you be brief because we do have a very busy meeting. Then we're going to have a community

[0:08:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): information meeting on the short-term vacation rental bylaws. Staff will give us a report and

[0:08:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): that'll be your opportunity to ask questions and clarifications about the bylaw. The third piece

[0:09:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): is a public hearing and that's where you can state your opinion about the bylaw what you like

[0:09:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): or don't like about the or support or don't support about the bylaw so it's really important

[0:09:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): if you can keep your messages straight in those in those that will help us move along and be the

[0:09:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): most useful to us as trustees so that we can hear what you have to say and get that your information

[0:09:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): met so right now i'm going to open the town hall so this is your opportunity to speak to us

[0:09:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): questions and comments excuse me we want to hear your questions and comments at this time

[0:09:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): about everything but short-term vacation rentals and later we'll be making decisions

[0:09:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): your questions and comments are valued and they help us make good decisions

[0:09:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): applicants will have a chance to speak to us when we're considering their application so they don't

[0:09:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): need to address us right now when speaking to the local trust committee we ask that you direct

[0:09:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): your comments to us your trustees not the audience or staff speak about the issues not

[0:10:01] Trustee Patrick (probable): not individuals. Be clear, concise, and respectful. Like I said, we have a very full agenda today.

[0:10:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): I will ask that you keep your comments brief. So is there anyone that wishes to address us

[0:10:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): in the town hall today? You can raise your hand. There's a raise hand function at the center of

[0:10:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): the bottom of the screen. I see a couple of hands have come up. Maple, like Michael Sketch

[0:10:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): has his hand up. Michael, if you take yourself off mute. Am I?

[0:10:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yes. Now we did receive your

[0:10:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): written submission so ask that you highlight it not you don't have to read it uh

[0:10:48] Voice 2: all right i i

[0:10:51] Voice 2: wasn't able to uh give a delegation submission because the agenda package came out too late to

[0:10:58] Voice 2: do so i think this material is important but um i will pick paragraphs if that's your wish

[0:11:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): I think so please.

[0:11:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): My

[0:11:10] Voice 2: address is for the James Island matter of the agenda. There are two items in particular

[0:11:18] Voice 2: that I think should be brought to the trustee's attention and the first is the provision of

[0:11:25] Voice 2: parkland pursuant to section 510 of the local government act that's the five percent parkland

[0:11:30] Voice 2: provision. It has been construed as a cache in lieu, but I don't think that is technically

[0:11:38] Voice 2: correct. And my second point is the restoration of habitat and rare plant species where they've

[0:11:46] Voice 2: been compromised by golf course and other developments. The background is buried in

[0:11:52] Voice 2: the staff reports, none of which you can find now on the website. So I've got a fair bit of

[0:11:58] Voice 2: information available if you wish it sent to you. The trustees and staff, the North Pender LTC

[0:12:06] Voice 2: Corporation deliberated a 2004 development proposal for James Island and adopted bylaws in 2008.

[0:12:16] Voice 2: The bylaws were controversial for the island's trust. Both the LTC chair and the chair of trust

[0:12:22] Voice 2: council opposed them vigorously. They were controversial because a 1989 rural land use bylaw

[0:12:29] Voice 2: was set aside, which at the time of subdivision would have given 89 of the 800 acres of James

[0:12:35] Voice 2: Island for ownership by the Islands Trust Conservancy, and there would be parkland for

[0:12:41] Voice 2: public access. The replacement bylaws 169 and 170 have the effect of discharging the requirements

[0:12:50] Voice 2: for public dedication of land for conservation and public access. The notion that the subdivided

[0:12:56] Voice 2: land should remain a gated community for the paying public flies in the face of trust object

[0:13:03] Voice 2: direction that there be benefit to the people of British Columbia generally. The James Island

[0:13:10] Voice 2: bylaws were pitched as public access versus conservation by the trustees of the day.

[0:13:17] Voice 2: The owners of James Island favored a continued private island compensated by dedication to

[0:13:24] Voice 2: conservation. Islands Trust staff reports concurred, so did North Pender trustees. The LTC

[0:13:32] Voice 2: chair consistently disagreed with a private island after subdivision. I'll deal first with

[0:13:41] Voice 2: the public access, and that's the 5% requirement in the Local Government Act. The staff report for

[0:13:50] Voice 2: the April 2006 LTC meeting set out the applicant and staff position regarding the provision of 5%

[0:13:59] Voice 2: of the subdivision for parkland or equivalent landowner contribution to the public interest.

[0:14:06] Voice 2: Staff recommended that a conservation covenant on land held by the owner fulfills the requirement

[0:14:13] Voice 2: of section 510 of the local government act senior crd staff disagreed either parkland or cash and

[0:14:22] Voice 2: new were necessary although it's very clearly stated in section 510 the point missed entirely

[0:14:29] Voice 2: in staff reports past and present and crd opinion is the consequence of the regional district not

[0:14:37] Voice 2: providing a park service for James Island. The April 2006 staff report states there is no

[0:14:45] Voice 2: park service, nor is there parkland which would necessitate or justify a park service.

[0:14:52] Voice 2: Notwithstanding, the CRD expressed preference for parkland or cash in lieu as a second option,

[0:15:01] Voice 2: probably with the rationale that parkland would not be held by the owner and that there would

[0:15:06] Voice 2: be public access to james island after subdivision islands trust staff recommended cash in lieu

[0:15:14] Voice 2: thereafter a spurious rumor circulated on north pender the cash in lieu would benefit north pender

[0:15:21] Voice 2: land acquisition suddenly there was public support for the local trustee position on james island

[0:15:28] Voice 2: crd the crd electoral area director did realize it was a problem there was no park service for

[0:15:35] Voice 2: James Island. Two bylaws were adopted, neither of which established a park service for James Island.

[0:15:45] Voice 2: My conclusion for your attention, as I understand the situation, the CRD does not offer a park

[0:15:52] Voice 2: service for James Island. Therefore, cash liu is not an option to the 5% of subdivision land for

[0:15:58] Voice 2: park land. The interests of the SEAT First Nation are immediately affected. There must be consultation

[0:16:05] Voice 2: to determine the location for that parkland.

[0:16:08] Voice 2: The subdivision control covenant must be adjusted for parkland

[0:16:12] Voice 2: rather than cash and new.

[0:16:14] Voice 2: Note that under Section 510, Section 13B of the Local Government Act

[0:16:19] Voice 2: and Section 710 of the Land Title Act,

[0:16:23] Voice 2: title for the parkland will not be vested in the regional district.

[0:16:28] Voice 2: The second part of my submission recommends remedy for rare plant species

[0:16:33] Voice 2: which were compromised during golf course and other land development, probably 2005-2006.

[0:16:40] Voice 2: That's the time of concentrated deliberation by the LTC on conservation strategy and zoning for James Island.

[0:16:49] Voice 2: In 2004, Matt Fairbarns...

[0:16:52] Voice 2: Mayor

[0:16:53] Trustee McConchie (probable): Patrick, can I have a point of order, please?

[0:16:55] Trustee McConchie (probable): I appreciate the story and the historical summation of James Island.

[0:16:59] Trustee McConchie (probable): This is certainly in the staff report.

[0:17:02] Trustee McConchie (probable): I'm just wondering if we're proposing a time limit on speakers today.

[0:17:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): I did ask them to be brief. So Michael, it would be helpful if you would speak of what you're hoping for from this subdivision here, just on your second point here on the conservation, and please wrap up.

[0:17:19] Voice 2: Right. I'll read an excerpt, if I may, from, well, in fact, you have the submission written in front of you. Thank

[0:17:28] Voice 2: you very much.

[0:17:29] Voice 2: all

[0:17:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): right thank you michael very much um we have a george larue sorry

[0:17:38] Trustee McConchie (probable): pardon chair patrick was was

[0:17:41] Trustee McConchie (probable): did we just have a member of the public swearing at trustees that's what i overheard i

[0:17:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): i did not

[0:17:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): hear clearly i

[0:17:52] Trustee McConchie (probable): just can you please remind members of the public that we are in a safe workplace

[0:17:56] Trustee McConchie (probable): like that what can you please reiterate that despite our differences of opinion it is not

[0:18:03] Trustee McConchie (probable): appropriate to swear at trustees.

[0:18:06] Voice 9: I believe I'm off mute is that correct?

[0:18:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yes George you're

[0:18:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): speaking now. Thank you

[0:18:15] Voice 9: and just to that last comment if there's any assertion that I was

[0:18:20] Voice 9: involved in some inappropriate language it's patently wrong I hadn't said a word. No George

[0:18:24] Trustee McConchie (probable): we're

[0:18:25] Voice 9: referring to the

[0:18:25] Trustee McConchie (probable): previous speaker I believe.

[0:18:27] Voice 9: My question is quite simple I had heard that there

[0:18:31] Voice 9: there was going to be a management review

[0:18:33] Voice 9: and that $75,000 had been allocated

[0:18:36] Voice 9: to undertaking that management and governance review.

[0:18:39] Voice 9: I subsequently heard that there was a move afoot

[0:18:43] Voice 9: to defund that management review.

[0:18:45] Voice 9: Could you please comment on this?

[0:18:47] Voice 9: Thank you.

[0:18:52] Trustee McConchie (probable): Yeah,

[0:18:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): could you, Chair

[0:18:53] Trustee McConchie (probable): Patrick, that's a great question.

[0:18:55] Trustee McConchie (probable): I'm wondering, Chair Patrick,

[0:18:55] Trustee McConchie (probable): if you have access to any information,

[0:18:57] Trustee McConchie (probable): we'd love to hear that.

[0:18:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): Well, the budget, the final budget is going to be considered

[0:19:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): at the trust council meeting in March as it is every year.

[0:19:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): The financial planning committee meets in advance

[0:19:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): of the budget to make any final edits.

[0:19:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): We did take a list a number of projects

[0:19:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): that need to be considered that were being funded

[0:19:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): under surplus and the review was one of those items.

[0:19:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): It's just been raised as one of those items

[0:19:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): that need to be looked at as to where we wanna reduce

[0:19:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): our surplus draw or not.

[0:19:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): That is also a decision that's coming before Trust Council if they want to change the threshold in which they remove from the surplus.

[0:19:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): So it will be debated, you know, of how it is to be funded or not, but that would happen at Trust Council.

[0:19:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): Deb Morrison?

[0:19:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): I

[0:19:52] Voice 5: would encourage folks to watch the minutes of the meeting for the Financial Planning Committee if you're interested in that conversation and, you know, voice any concerns you have to your local representatives around that, because that will be happening at Trust Council.

[0:20:08] Voice 5: Yeah,

[0:20:10] Trustee McConchie (probable): and if I can just share my opinion, George, I appreciate the question a lot. Because what I believe is happening is there's attempts to bureaucratically oppose what was a democratically voted on trust council decision to have a management review.

[0:20:29] Trustee McConchie (probable): Now, unfortunately, what has happened is the folks that have been involved in supporting this management review have been dragged through the mud in not only the media, but from comments from staff and from fellow trustees.

[0:20:44] Trustee McConchie (probable): It's been disappointing the conduct and has not reflected kindly upon the Islands Trust.

[0:20:48] Trustee McConchie (probable): I certainly hope cooler heads will prevail and that we can go ahead with this management review as voted on at Trust Council and was the will of Trust Council at the time. Thank you.

[0:21:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you, George. Is there anyone else that wishes to address us today?

[0:21:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): If

[0:21:10] Voice 9: I could, Chair Patrick, one follow-up. It would seem to me that for the scope of something of a management and governance review, $75,000 will simply identify that you need a more extensive management and governance review.

[0:21:29] Voice 9: I believe this is a fairly serious and important initiative, and it's important for all organizations to reassess their purpose and conduct and structure every so often.

[0:21:43] Voice 9: And I do believe, and it's illustrative of an 1,100-page executive council trust package, it's illustrative of the apparent need for a serious review of management and governance processes in the Islands Trust.

[0:22:01] Voice 9: And with that, I would just say thank you for hearing me.

[0:22:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you very much, George, and I certainly concur that reviewing organizations is very important.

[0:22:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): important um anyone else that wishes to address us today with that except there's going to be two

[0:22:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): more opportunities uh to uh to address us so i'm going to uh move on if that's okay with the

[0:22:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): trustees um so the next item we have is a community information on um on our proposed um bylaw

[0:22:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): amendment to the ocp on the short-term vacation project i'm going to invite staff at planner

[0:22:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): or Stockdale to give us thank

[0:22:45] Voice 18: you chair Patrick so before us is a community information meeting for

[0:22:50] Voice 18: proposed bylaw 222 and that's related to the short-term vacation rental project

[0:22:56] Voice 18: this short-term vacation rental review project started actually in September of 2019 and that's

[0:23:03] Voice 18: when it was added to the north pender's ltc's top priorities list an online survey an email survey

[0:23:10] Voice 18: The survey was then sent out in, I believe it was early March of last year to gather comments from the community members and short term vacation rental operators.

[0:23:20] Voice 18: From that staff report was presented in September of last year, giving options to the LTC and the LTC give direction to staff to draft an official community plan amendment by law.

[0:23:33] Voice 18: and this would amend the the current temporary use permit guidelines for short-term vacation rentals.

[0:23:42] Voice 18: This bylaw 222 was then presented at the October meeting of last year where it was given first

[0:23:48] Voice 18: reading. The North Pender LTC also made amendments to proposed bylaw 222 at last month's LTC meeting

[0:23:58] Voice 18: and I do just want to quickly highlight some of those amendments that the LTC made.

[0:24:03] Voice 18: One of them was actually removing a draft guideline that stated that a temporary use permit may be issued for a short-term vacation rental within a secondary suite.

[0:24:14] Voice 18: That was removed.

[0:24:15] Voice 18: In addition, information on wildfire safety and outdoor fire burning was added to this bylaw, as well as a guideline that stated that a STVR TUP should not be issued in a dwelling or cottage that does not have occupancy permit approval.

[0:24:32] Voice 18: and that was based on comments provided by the Capital Regional District.

[0:24:37] Voice 18: I do want to note, oh, sorry, and there was one more, pardon me.

[0:24:41] Voice 18: There was an additional guideline added to proposed bylaw number 222,

[0:24:46] Voice 18: and that's that the LTSG should not approve more than 20 TUP permits

[0:24:52] Voice 18: for short-term vacation rentals located within the Magic Lake Estates water system area.

[0:24:57] Voice 18: And there was an error included in the staff report in this agenda that I do want to just note.

[0:25:04] Voice 18: In the background section, there was a list of motions that were made at the last meeting, and one of them was NP 2021-16, and that stated that there was a motion that the LTC remove item 6.4.4, and this is related to that 200-meter radius, and that motion was actually defeated.

[0:25:25] Voice 18: it so I just want to clarify that that was there was an error stating that it wasn't defeated

[0:25:32] Voice 18: but is that is one of the the guidelines that has generated some comments from community members

[0:25:39] Voice 18: so that is one that we're looking for comments and discussion certainly the proposed bylaw is

[0:25:47] Voice 18: located on the LTC's website for community members to review and I'm happy to answer

[0:25:53] Voice 18: or any questions anybody may have thank you interesting

[0:26:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): morrison you were asking about i

[0:26:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): think there is a report later in the agenda package was someone asking what page this was

[0:26:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): referring to yes referred to i think it was later in the agenda package on page 239 that's correct

[0:26:13] Voice 18: that's correct it's on page 239 of the agenda package is at the very bottom and that's referring

[0:26:20] Voice 18: to resolution NP 2021-16 unfortunately the carried and defeated weren't included in those

[0:26:29] Voice 18: and that one that motion was actually defeated so what that means is that guideline is still

[0:26:36] Voice 18: in the proposed bylaw number 222 okay

[0:26:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): okay so I was gonna say I wonder if it's useful to have

[0:26:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): the bylaw up on the screen what would you like trustees for the community information meeting

[0:26:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): questions would that be useful to have the bylaw up on the screen the draft okay if you could is

[0:26:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): that can that be done can we have the draft bylaw so this is a community information meeting so this

[0:27:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): is your chance to ask questions and uh you know for clarification about uh the bylaw um try to

[0:27:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): refrain from you know stating your opinion of liking it or not because that will be your

[0:27:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): opportunity to go on the record during the public hearing which will be the next next piece so i'm

[0:27:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): I'm really asking you to use this section

[0:27:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): to ask questions of clarification

[0:27:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): and information about this proposed bylaw,

[0:27:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): which is projected up on the screen.

[0:27:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): So at this time, if anyone would like to ask

[0:27:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): any questions of clarification, please raise your hand.

[0:27:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): It's at the center of the screen.

[0:27:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I do wanna remind as we get ready

[0:27:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): to get into the public hearing,

[0:27:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): that if you were hoping to address us

[0:27:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): through the public hearing today,

[0:27:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): or even ask us questions

[0:27:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): during this Community Information Meeting, you need to be on the Zoom link, which is available

[0:27:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): off our website. If you're live streaming us today, you won't be able to communicate directly

[0:28:01] Trustee Patrick (probable): with us. So please find the link off of our website page for the North Pender site on the

[0:28:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): meeting calendar if you wanted to address us today. So I see some hands coming up. So this

[0:28:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): is the Community Information Meeting, questions about the bylaw and the short-term vacation

[0:28:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): rentals we have a jade not um jade if you take yourself off mute hi

[0:28:24] Voice 1: i don't

[0:28:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): know you guys oh

[0:28:26] Voice 1: okay

[0:28:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): yes i can hear you

[0:28:27] Voice 1: okay perfect um so i just wanted to ask about the fire ban um or sorry the

[0:28:34] Voice 1: the change that's being required or modified i'm wondering if propane fires are allowed and i i

[0:28:42] Voice 1: mean that in two ways for us we have an stvr we do not let guests use it but if we were there we

[0:28:49] Voice 1: wouldn't want anyone to confuse it for us using a propane fireplace versus not so i'm just wondering

[0:28:56] Voice 1: if we are able to use a propane fire um during non-fire and months

[0:29:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): that's a good question what

[0:29:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): What does the rule say?

[0:29:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): Planner, stock dealer.

[0:29:13] Voice 18: Yeah, so in Guidelines 6.4.15,

[0:29:17] Voice 18: these are guidelines that could be included in the permit.

[0:29:24] Voice 18: And one is the prohibition of outdoor fires.

[0:29:27] Voice 18: It doesn't necessarily go into the details

[0:29:28] Voice 18: if it's a propane or regular fire.

[0:29:35] Voice 18: That actually question hasn't been asked before.

[0:29:38] Voice 18: so this is something that perhaps I may turn to Trustees Morrison and Trustees McConkie to see if

[0:29:45] Voice 18: they certainly have a concern. Generally propane fires are a safer version of an outdoor fire

[0:29:52] Voice 18: but it doesn't specifically state either or. Trustee Morrison?

[0:30:00] Voice 5: Yes. The concern is not really with owners using fire, appropriate fire ways related to the season, because you are, you have a vested interest in this island and ensuring that you're abiding by fire code rules.

[0:30:16] Voice 5: It's more about visitors on the permit. And so, and of course all fire related rules would apply to owners just like they apply to anybody who lives here.

[0:30:28] Voice 5: um but so i i would say that that is about visitors and maybe that needs to be specified

[0:30:34] Voice 5: a bit more that was the intent of that that visitors specifically are controlled on the

[0:30:39] Voice 5: use of fire not owners okay

[0:30:42] Voice 1: so um can you hear me yes okay sorry i my child was in the background

[0:30:47] Voice 1: for a second um okay so for us then i guess we'll just continue to not let guests use it we put it

[0:30:53] Voice 1: away when we do have guests and so we'll just know that we can use it ourselves and if anyone

[0:30:59] Voice 1: has concerns then people have our contact information and to let us know.

[0:31:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you very

[0:31:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): much. Thank you. Just a reminder that these are guidelines that the trustees would consider when

[0:31:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): developing a permit and we have Robin. Robin if you take yourself off mute.

[0:31:19] Voice 17: Hi everybody can you

[0:31:20] Voice 17: you hear me

[0:31:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): yes we can yeah

[0:31:23] Voice 17: thank you thank you very very much for doing this and um just a quick

[0:31:27] Voice 17: question uh sorry for the lady who i sorry i forgot her name um just with regards sir i didn't

[0:31:33] Voice 17: quite catch it uh on the the the permit i i didn't quite catch it with what did one say again about

[0:31:40] Voice 17: the the the rule uh regarding properties within 200 meters of one another is that

[0:31:46] Voice 17: that is that is that still applicable or sorry or is it the opposite that's no longer applicable

[0:31:51] Voice 17: i

[0:31:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): think that's it's still in the draft bylaw okay here it is right here yes yeah 6.4.4

[0:32:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): so

[0:32:01] Voice 17: if there's another property which wants to have a short-term permit that's within 200 meters

[0:32:07] Voice 17: of someone else who already has it then there may be a bit of a a problem is that the situation or

[0:32:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): it's it's a flag i guess it's a it's a way of identifying whether or not there's

[0:32:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): to get becoming too many densities in one one area

[0:32:24] Voice 17: fair enough and when you say 200 meters

[0:32:27] Voice 17: from how the the crow flies do you as opposed to the as the actual path or road

[0:32:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): correct that's what

[0:32:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): the rule says but the trustees when they would be considering a temporary use permit would you know

[0:32:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): would apply their vocal knowledge of the road systems and things i'm sure right

[0:32:45] Voice 17: okay so as the

[0:32:48] Voice 17: crow flies okay thank you

[0:32:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): thank you cool

[0:32:50] Voice 17: are

[0:32:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): there let's see the next person here daryl

[0:32:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): or neil sorry i apologize it's a neil that was next neil if you take yourself off mute

[0:33:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): neil if you can remove yourself off all

[0:33:09] Voice 23: right there we go there you go yes we can hear you

[0:33:11] Voice 23: i think you can hear me now so uh first off thank you so much it's nice to get a chance to chat with

[0:33:16] Voice 23: you all and I'll just say that I've you've probably read my giant letters and so I won't go

[0:33:22] Voice 23: through them all and I do really appreciate having these opportunities to have these discussions

[0:33:27] Voice 23: and I look forward to the continuing discussion today and I am

[0:33:31] Voice 23: a long-term supporter of having

[0:33:32] Voice 23: some type of permit for it and am a current proud owner of it or permit holder. I did want to ask

[0:33:39] Voice 23: uh to actually go back to the comment earlier about the fire ban um one thing i was confused

[0:33:45] Voice 23: about that was because we already have a fire ban program in the summer that doesn't make a

[0:33:50] Voice 23: difference whether it's me as an owner or a guest or a non-paying guest or anything like that so

[0:33:56] Voice 23: i can imagine that therefore we would never have any of our guests just like i wouldn't have my

[0:34:01] Voice 23: mother have a fire who's guesting at our property um so that's one that i i was unclear as to why

[0:34:07] Voice 23: we would have an extra stipulation for a restriction on fires which therefore would only

[0:34:13] Voice 23: be relevant in the non-fire ban part of the year because otherwise we're all under a fire ban

[0:34:22] Voice 23: and also whether that was put in because there was a specific incident where in the non-fire

[0:34:30] Voice 23: ban part of the season so in the winter there was a guest that was paying not just someone's

[0:34:37] Voice 23: friend or neighbor who had an issue with a fire because that's what it implies. So I wanted to

[0:34:42] Voice 23: get some clarification about why since we already have a fire ban for the whole place when it's

[0:34:46] Voice 23: actually when we have a fire problem which I'm totally aware of why we need to have an extra

[0:34:52] Voice 23: stipulation that someone because they've paid versus you know my friend coming over in the

[0:34:58] Voice 23: winter or myself has a restriction on it. So the first one I wanted to ask was about the fire.

[0:35:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): Okay I was gonna say Deb did you want to go after that one?

[0:35:08] Voice 5: I can talk to that. And I think it's open for conversation more generally. But so I am aware of a couple of situations where it's the shoulder season in particular, because there has been fire pits on site, people will come and bring their own firewood and have fires in ways that are not necessarily understanding the risk factors of the local area.

[0:35:36] Voice 5: And so that's the biggest concern that I have, because fire is just such a risk here.

[0:35:44] Voice 8: So

[0:35:44] Voice 5: it's more about even if we have them as guidelines for visitors in those shoulder seasons.

[0:35:51] Voice 5: You

[0:35:52] Voice 8: know, in the

[0:35:52] Voice 5: dead of winter, fire is not as big of a risk here because it's raining all the time.

[0:35:59] Voice 5: As our islands get drier, it's more of a concern, like it's more unpredictable.

[0:36:04] Voice 5: And I think there's just a bigger risk for people that are not from and committed to this space in terms of being

[0:36:12] Voice 5: owners, and to not really understand that. And these three IOs, North and South, Pender and Saterna, are particularly at risk going forward as things are changing.

[0:36:23] Voice 5: So it's more unpredictable when those times that are high fire risks are.

[0:36:28] Voice 5: Of course, the fire department has a good risk system and can manage that.

[0:36:33] Voice 5: But I think that it's, you know, the way in which people have fires is also about how we understand.

[0:36:44] Voice 23: Yeah, I think that's I think those are really great points and totally something that I understand.

[0:36:49] Voice 23: And so maybe it actually then might be just one other way to deal with this would be to clarify that, of course, no one, no matter who's on the property, can't have a fire during the fire ban.

[0:37:01] Voice 23: And then if it if it is a decision of this group and it is up to each permit about making a clarification about no fires, I'm comfortable with that with a paying guest.

[0:37:09] Voice 23: they can't have an outside fire um and then the other idea that as the previous uh commenter said

[0:37:15] Voice 23: i think you should clarify the difference between a outside fire pit that's a propane one versus

[0:37:21] Voice 23: as

[0:37:22] Voice 1: you're talking about

[0:37:23] Voice 23: someone making a big bonfire because you know we have a propane fire

[0:37:26] Voice 23: pit that's on our on our deck so it's you know completely you can run it year round it's on a

[0:37:31] Voice 23: deck but it looks like an outside fire so maybe that would be one thing to change and clarify

[0:37:35] Voice 23: I think that was a good comment.

[0:37:37] Voice 23: So thank you.

[0:37:38] Voice 23: And then the other one I had, it was another clarification.

[0:37:42] Voice 23: Oh, go ahead.

[0:37:43] Voice 23: Yeah.

[0:37:43] Voice 5: Just respond to that briefly.

[0:37:45] Voice 5: So I do think that as these are guidelines, that that would be a permit by permit clarification

[0:37:50] Voice 5: that I want to

[0:37:51] Voice 5: lean into, but have the guidelines back us up in case there is some problem that's

[0:37:55] Voice 5: very site-specific.

[0:37:57] Voice 8: So,

[0:37:58] Voice 5: but I see that those are good site-specific things that could be named in the permit.

[0:38:02] Voice 23: Yeah, great.

[0:38:03] Voice 23: Great. I think it is interesting. The previous caller also mentioned it's the it's the neighbor perception problem is always the challenge, too.

[0:38:10] Voice 23: And no one can tell from looking, you know, from a couple of acres away, whether your fire is a propane fire and you don't know whether the owner is using it or whether it's a wood fire or not.

[0:38:20] Voice 23: So, yeah. So help with that to try to reduce stress. It would be great, I think.

[0:38:26] Voice 23: and then the other one I was going to ask was about the 200 meter it's the way it is right now

[0:38:33] Voice 23: it's its own item of 6.44 and so it says you know should not approve versus these other items that

[0:38:41] Voice 23: we're talking about like the fire ones which are under 6.15 which are in addition to other

[0:38:47] Voice 23: conditions so I just even the previous commenter said like is the 200 meters a you know a

[0:38:55] Voice 23: like is it a hard and fast rule or is it up to discussion and I think that's that's kind of the

[0:39:02] Voice 23: way it's written right now it just at least to me it seems to read like you know will not approve

[0:39:06] Voice 23: within 200 meters and I feel really bad like I have at least one or two other neighbors who are

[0:39:12] Voice 23: close to my place and that's you know my place 200 meters is more than 30 houses and who have

[0:39:17] Voice 23: expressed that they would like to have a rental but now because I've had one they can't versus

[0:39:22] Voice 23: Versus if you put it under a clause that was kind of up to the discussion.

[0:39:25] Voice 23: So it's under 6.15, like in addition, the conditions, which is something therefore you're considering with every TPU or something.

[0:39:34] Voice 23: I think that might help imply that what we're trying to do here is say, let's look at the community every single time we look at a permit.

[0:39:41] Voice 23: Let's say how dense is it? You know, 200 meters for some properties is just one property and other places it's 30.

[0:39:46] Voice 23: So let's use it as a guideline and consider it as a potential condition versus saying no there and therefore it's, therefore you, you know, I feel bad for my other neighbors who want to have one and just because I want, they can't.

[0:40:00] Voice 23: So thank you.

[0:40:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you very much.

[0:40:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I know South Pender had considerable conversations and had some alternative language that we may consider later when we're debating this guideline.

[0:40:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): guideline. All right. Who's next here? Daryl?

[0:40:26] Voice 21: Can you guys hear me okay?

[0:40:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yes, we can. Perfect.

[0:40:29] Voice 21: Good morning, everybody. And thanks again for the opportunity to listen in and have an opportunity

[0:40:34] Voice 21: to speak in today. So my question is regarding the 6.4.4 Twitter meter radius. And is that going

[0:40:44] Voice 21: going to apply to renewals? When I'm currently an STV operator coming up for renewal, when I renew,

[0:40:52] Voice 21: am I grandfathered because this will be passed after my renewal or will I be subject to this

[0:40:59] Voice 21: new policy when I go to renew? Just some clarification around that would be great.

[0:41:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): We'd like to discuss this. I mean, this is, I mean, again, these are guidelines and things

[0:41:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): that guide the conversations that would be had with the trustees and I temporary use permits

[0:41:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): also applications are mailed to local neighbors and all of that information is brought together

[0:41:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): when the trustees are considering the decisions or not and so it's I don't know if any other

[0:41:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): trustee wants to add yeah

[0:41:33] Trustee McConchie (probable): we had a discussion in our last meeting about this which I expressed

[0:41:37] Trustee McConchie (probable): concerns exactly reflecting what daryl's talking about i'm not quite sure what the answer is

[0:41:42] Trustee McConchie (probable): because that's why i have some reservations about 6.4.4 well it means well and it's a good idea

[0:41:48] Trustee McConchie (probable): in practice i'm wondering how it's going to actually be put into place right

[0:41:53] Voice 21: i'm guessing

[0:41:54] Voice 21: it'll be the previous um comments it's kind of referred to that maybe perhaps these will be

[0:42:01] Voice 21: handled kind of more on a on a case-by-case basis uh when the application comes forward

[0:42:06] Voice 21: looking at talking to the neighbors as you say getting feedback and then hoping that a decision

[0:42:10] Voice 21: could be made maybe on a case-by-case basis i

[0:42:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): i believe that's that i mean that's generally how

[0:42:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): it would work this isn't a prohibition that you cannot apply within 200 meters that's that's not

[0:42:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): how it's designed yeah

[0:42:28] Trustee McConchie (probable): and as this is a community information meeting i think we can save the debate

[0:42:32] Trustee McConchie (probable): when we have the bylaw between the trustees.

[0:42:35] Trustee McConchie (probable): So I know that we have a,

[0:42:37] Trustee McConchie (probable): we're just informing the public about the bylaw right now.

[0:42:39] Trustee McConchie (probable): And thank you for commenting, Daryl, appreciate it.

[0:42:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): Appreciate it, thanks guys.

[0:42:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you, Amanda.

[0:42:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank

[0:42:50] Voice 22: you, I have one question about 6.4.5 and 0.6,

[0:43:00] Voice 22: which is what would, how would you demonstrate

[0:43:03] Voice 22: that you have an adequate water supply?

[0:43:06] Voice 22: What would that mean?

[0:43:07] Voice 22: and the reason I ask this is because somebody had guests once in the summer who you know brought

[0:43:14] Voice 22: their friend and they both had the girlfriends and uh you know the couple that were hosting them

[0:43:20] Voice 22: and they had multiple showers I guess they hadn't informed them and all of a sudden uh their tank

[0:43:27] Voice 22: ran dry and then their well ran dry they had to reach like really expensive recharge the well

[0:43:32] Voice 22: blah blah blah anyway so what does that mean I guess is my one question and then I am concerned

[0:43:40] Voice 22: about the 6.4.4 in that I think it is talking to me about not only the density of like people

[0:43:50] Voice 22: driving and noise factor which I have heard from other people but a recharge aquifer recharge rate

[0:43:59] Voice 22: and so if it's always going to be pressure on uh oh i guess we're going to have to individually

[0:44:07] Voice 22: decide about this property or not my question then is what is the mechanism that you would

[0:44:13] Voice 22: like to put in place for this procedure and does that mean you alternate year by year if somebody

[0:44:21] Voice 22: and then you have a waiting list established um because is it first come first served is it

[0:44:28] Voice 22: But, you know, anyway, I just wonder about the mechanism for that.

[0:44:33] Voice 22: And that might then reduce the conflict, because I think it is an important point to have to protect the rural character of our island.

[0:44:43] Voice 22: And that's it so far. And thank you so much for hosting us.

[0:44:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you, Amanda. Who could answer this question on the water?

[0:44:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): her

[0:44:54] Voice 18: um i can certainly do that um most of the temporary use permits if not all of them are

[0:45:02] Voice 18: actually located within the um the magic lake uh water systems but in previous applications those

[0:45:10] Voice 18: for uh that have applied for a tup and have a private well that we asked for a well report a

[0:45:15] Voice 18: well report of some sort um i don't know if we've ever gone to the lengths of asking for pumping

[0:45:20] Voice 18: because those are quite significant, but I believe that in the past we have,

[0:45:25] Voice 18: if not on North Pender, with other LTCs we've asked for well reports.

[0:45:31] Voice 18: And again, to answer the question about 6.4.4,

[0:45:35] Voice 18: the mechanism is basically a case-by-case decision,

[0:45:39] Voice 18: and also on the merits of each application.

[0:45:43] Voice 18: Again, it's really about restricting a proliferation of TUPs in one area.

[0:45:50] Voice 18: right it's um it's a way to that we staff thought uh how to measure cumulative effects

[0:45:57] Voice 18: of these temporary use permits and so really it'd be a matter of um it'd be a case by case

[0:46:05] Voice 18: of application by application to address 6.4.4 all

[0:46:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): right thank you amanda does that answer your

[0:46:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): question uh

[0:46:16] Voice 22: no that's good i think deb wants to say yes

[0:46:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): sorry trustee morrison so

[0:46:22] Voice 5: one other piece

[0:46:22] Voice 5: As we are starting to see renewals in our term for short-term vacation rentals, we're also starting to see water bill data related to water usage, and that's helping us think about – and that's where I think the power of a TUP is in this place, in this particular issue, because we can see that if somebody has had a TUP in the past and their water usage is really high or out of whack with the sort of normal usage in the region, then we can actually deny a permit in this case.

[0:46:52] Voice 5: sense of like it's being too heavily impacting water usage in the region. So it really puts the

[0:47:00] Voice 5: onus on STVR operators to make sure that their users are appropriately understanding water

[0:47:06] Voice 5: shortage in the area and appropriately using water. And so we would have to deal with that

[0:47:11] Voice 5: if we hit well-related issues, have some other kind of mechanism to manage that and monitor that,

[0:47:17] Voice 5: and that could be a requirement of the TUP as could potentially and Kim correct me if I'm wrong

[0:47:23] Voice 5: on this but if we're in a well-related situation we could also potentially make a requirement that

[0:47:29] Voice 5: you have that you're not pumping out of a well that you're only using stored water. Is that true

[0:47:34] Voice 5: or is that not true?

[0:47:37] Voice 18: With the temporary use permit the LTC has the discretion to add any

[0:47:41] Voice 18: particular conditions to the permit that the LTC sees fit so that potentially could be.

[0:47:45] Voice 18: right

[0:47:47] Voice 5: so that could help mitigate the issue of damage to aquifer related water okay thank you

[0:47:55] Voice 22: um i i like the idea of flagging it um you know uh just in case um are are we going to tie this

[0:48:03] Voice 22: to the groundwater study that when it comes out okay thank you

[0:48:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): thank you any other questions about

[0:48:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): the bylaw, the draft bylaw.

[0:48:21] Voice 5: Sorry, I have

[0:48:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): the list on the other side of the screen. I apologize.

[0:48:26] Trustee McConchie (probable): No, no, if there's no one from the public, I just have a quick question.

[0:48:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yes, please.

[0:48:31] Trustee McConchie (probable): This sounds like a Bill Clinton discussion, but what is the definition between

[0:48:37] Trustee McConchie (probable): using the word should and must in a bylaw? Because Bill Clinton said, well, it depends

[0:48:43] Trustee McConchie (probable): on the definition of the word is is and i'm wondering what should so like 6.4.5 says the

[0:48:49] Trustee McConchie (probable): applicant should demonstrate an adequate supply of water you know what is the difference between

[0:48:54] Trustee McConchie (probable): writing the applicant must demonstrate an adequate supply of water what is that difference just from

[0:48:59] Trustee McConchie (probable): a legal perspective i'm sure robert or phil or kim can answer that so

[0:49:03] Voice 3: in a regulatory bylaw it's

[0:49:06] Voice 3: it's what the common meaning of the word is you must you must comply with something but these are

[0:49:11] Voice 3: guidelines so what it would say if one of the if one of the guidelines said must instead of should

[0:49:18] Voice 3: or said shall instead of should that would give much heavier weight to the local trust committee's

[0:49:24] Voice 3: decision or deliberation on that particular guideline does

[0:49:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): that help trusting my country

[0:49:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): yeah

[0:49:33] Trustee McConchie (probable): it totally helps so where i think as we proceed further with our debate we should probably

[0:49:38] Trustee McConchie (probable): will be parse over this bylaw and check out whether or not there is the word should, and it

[0:49:43] Trustee McConchie (probable): should say must, so it carries heavier weight potentially. And I'll leave that for a future

[0:49:47] Trustee McConchie (probable): discussion. Thanks.

[0:49:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you. So if we don't have any other questions from the public, we're going

[0:49:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): to move into the public hearing. Now, a public hearing is a very formal process. I'm going to

[0:50:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): have to read a script. I apologize. It is long and wordy, but it is a regulated process of public

[0:50:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): public hearing so look at the trustees are we ready to move into the public hearing seeing nods

[0:50:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): yes so we will so the public hearing for the proposed bylaw number 222 is now open I wish to

[0:50:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): welcome everyone in attendance and acknowledge that we are meeting in the territory of the

[0:50:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): Coast Salish Nations my name is Trustee Laura Patrick and I'm the chair of the North Pender

[0:50:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): under local trust committee.

[0:50:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I'll introduce again our trustees,

[0:50:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): Trustee Ben McConkie and Trustee Deb Morrison.

[0:50:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): I'd like to introduce the trustee planning staff,

[0:50:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): Kim Stockdale, our Island Planner

[0:50:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): and our minute taker, Shannon Braford.

[0:50:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): Pending on the number of people who want to talk,

[0:50:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): I may need to limit the amount of time,

[0:50:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): but again, we'll review that in a moment

[0:50:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): when we open up the floor for that.

[0:51:01] Trustee Patrick (probable): so this public hearing is being convened pursuant to section 465 of the local government act in

[0:51:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): order to consider the following proposed bylaw proposed bylaw number 222 cited as the north

[0:51:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): pender island official community plan bylaw number 171 2007 amendment number 1 2020 all persons who

[0:51:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): believe that their interest in in property is affected by this proposed bylaw will be given

[0:51:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): a reasonable opportunity to be heard or to present written submissions respecting matters contained

[0:51:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): in the proposed bylaw. Those wishing to speak should commence their presentation by clearly

[0:51:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): stating their name and address. Members of the local trust committee may, if they wish, ask

[0:51:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): questions of you following your presentation. However, the main function of the local trust

[0:51:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): committee members is to listen to the views of the public. It is not the function of the

[0:51:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): committee members to debate the merits of the proposed bylaw with individual citizens.

[0:52:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): Everyone will be given a reasonable opportunity to be heard and none should feel discouraged from

[0:52:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): presenting his or her views. Considering the proposed bylaws, the Local Trust Committee has

[0:52:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): received documents which may influence its decisions. Those documents are available for

[0:52:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): review during this hearing on our website as indicated in the public notice. Any persons who

[0:52:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): who wish to present a written submission

[0:52:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): to the Local Trust Committee may do so

[0:52:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): and all written submissions must be received

[0:52:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): before the close of the hearing.

[0:52:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I will give you an email address.

[0:52:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): That was just on the next page.

[0:52:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): So if you are able to submit written submissions

[0:52:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): through while we're talking

[0:52:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): and while the public hearing is open

[0:52:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): and the email address is,

[0:52:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): I'm going to spell out the letters

[0:52:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): because it doesn't say a word v i c v as in victor i c p h s u b at islands with an s trust

[0:53:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): dot bc dot ca um is there a way we could maybe put that on the screen because that is a

[0:53:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): that is a uh a tricky word um for the email so we'll get that email someone's typing that up

[0:53:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): up there right now so written submissions can be

[0:53:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): and I'll be pausing at the end to make sure

[0:53:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): we've given ample time to receive those.

[0:53:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): So your only opportunity to comment on the proposed bylaw

[0:53:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): is during the hearing as members of the local trust

[0:53:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): committee may not receive further submissions

[0:53:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): after the close of the hearing.

[0:53:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): After this public hearing has concluded,

[0:53:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): the local trust committee may without further notice

[0:53:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): make whatever decisions it deems proper

[0:53:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): with respect to the bylaw.

[0:53:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): that are subject to today's hearing so uh island planner kim stockville will now summarize the

[0:53:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): public hearing notice and key points of the bylaw and the referral agency responses trustee stockville

[0:54:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): you're on mute thank

[0:54:10] Voice 18: you for the reminders uh thank you chair patrick a copy of this uh copy

[0:54:15] Voice 18: of this notice was advertised in two consecutive editions of the driftwood on february 10th and

[0:54:20] Voice 18: February 17th of this year. All notification requirements under the Local Government Act have

[0:54:27] Voice 18: now been completed. There is a copy of the public hearing binder during this public hearing and it's

[0:54:34] Voice 18: located on the Islands Trust website on the North Pender meeting webpage. As mentioned previously,

[0:54:42] Voice 18: the purpose of proposed bylaw number 222, if adopted, is to amend the North Pender Island

[0:54:48] Voice 18: official community plan and to amend the temporary use permit section in regards to short-term

[0:54:55] Voice 18: vacation rentals to add, remove or amend the current TUP guidelines. The proposed bylaw was

[0:55:02] Voice 18: referred to a number of agencies and First Nations for comments. The LTC did receive comments from

[0:55:09] Voice 18: the CRD and those were included in an amendment made to bylaw number 222 at the January of this

[0:55:17] Voice 18: year LTC meeting and that included adding a guideline that states that short-term vacation

[0:55:22] Voice 18: rental TUP should not be issued in a dwelling or cottage that does not have occupancy permit

[0:55:28] Voice 18: approval. The Trincomalee Improvement District also responded with a by-law approval based on

[0:55:35] Voice 18: the addition of a guideline that states a TUP for short-term vacation rental use should not

[0:55:40] Voice 18: be issued if located within the Trincomalee Improvement District. All other agencies either

[0:55:46] Voice 18: either stated that their interests were unaffected or they provided no comments.

[0:55:51] Voice 18: And again, all these comments made by

[0:55:53] Voice 18: agencies and First Nations are included in the public hearing binder.

[0:55:57] Voice 18: As of 9 a.m. this morning, we received six public submissions

[0:56:02] Voice 18: and perhaps Maple can just give us a thumbs up that there was only the six.

[0:56:07] Voice 18: I do encourage anybody, if they are for any future public hearing submissions

[0:56:12] Voice 18: for future bylaws we really do encourage getting these submissions in early just so staff and LTC

[0:56:18] Voice 18: has time to actually absorb the comments it is difficult to read over lengthy public submissions

[0:56:25] Voice 18: right before the public hearing but again we can receive those up to the close of the public

[0:56:30] Voice 18: hearing date or public hearing close but we do encourage getting those in as early as possible

[0:56:36] Voice 18: Thank you so much, Chair Patrick.

[0:56:38] Voice 18: Back to you.

[0:56:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right.

[0:56:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you very much.

[0:56:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): So, again, submissions can be made.

[0:56:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): Written submissions can be made any time during the, until the close of the hearing.

[0:56:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I will pause before we close the hearing to communicate with Maple to make sure that we've received them or not.

[0:57:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): and again that email is written right here on the top of the screen for those that are listening on

[0:57:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): their phone i'm going to spell it out vicphsub at islandstrust.bc.ca so i invite members of the

[0:57:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): public who wish to speak to raise their hand that's at the center of the screen please state

[0:57:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): your name prior to making the comments and after your presentation the ltc and trustees may ask you

[0:57:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): a question but they are primarily here to listen and will not debate the issues with you

[0:57:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): uh at the end of the hearing i'll call three times uh and so be patient i'm not forgetting

[0:57:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): but i will have to ask three times if there's anyone that wishes to um to address us um so

[0:57:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): with that i'm going to now open the hearing i do ask that you you know be brief again please

[0:57:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): be respectful uh speak to the issue not to individuals and um and and try to be

[0:58:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): brief and concise with your comments and with that we have jade hi

[0:58:12] Voice 1: me again so i'm jade ganassi

[0:58:15] Voice 1: at address 3745 privateers road um my brother was at the last meeting for tups um joshua ganassi

[0:58:24] Voice 1: so i will try and keep this brief it's regarding 6.4.15 uh section c i'm limiting the number of

[0:58:32] Voice 1: days from that a short-term rental can be in use um i have a few concerns that i think also should

[0:58:39] Voice 1: concern those on pender island full-time i'm there part-time and obviously we have an stvr when we're

[0:58:46] Voice 1: not there um first of all we do create jobs um for our property manager our cleaners um if we were to

[0:58:55] Voice 1: to restrict the amount of days, that simply means not giving work to those people during that time.

[0:59:03] Voice 1: So that could be, you know, an entire summer where it would technically be their busiest time to,

[0:59:09] Voice 1: you know, make money. And then all of a sudden, we have to say, sorry, you can't work from May

[0:59:15] Voice 1: till end of September. So that's the first thing. I don't, besides it not being fair to us,

[0:59:22] Voice 1: I don't think that's fair to them either. For in other regards, it says a chance of 30 days, which is also very minuscule considering the fact that we do, and we've said this in previous meetings, we do room and board different types of workers, hydro workers, builders, tree cutters, local families without enough space to host.

[0:59:45] Voice 1: We've even previously had our neighbors stay there with their families.

[0:59:52] Voice 1: So I just think that you can't really determine how often different types of people need to

[0:59:59] Voice 1: come to the island.

[1:00:00] Voice 1: whether it's tourists or not tourists and that could have another effect besides just traffic

[1:00:05] Voice 1: and so on and noise and the other thing is for us you know we purchased this place on pender island

[1:00:13] Voice 1: so that we could spend more time with our families there i'm currently on maternity leave with my two

[1:00:19] Voice 1: children and you know i plan to spend time there and so i don't know how that would actually be

[1:00:25] Voice 1: managed how can we really quantify who is an owner or a friend or a family member versus who is a

[1:00:34] Voice 1: guest staying on the island a lot of the time we are sharing with friends and family there's four

[1:00:40] Voice 1: of us who own our particular stvr my brother me and our significant others so there's three

[1:00:45] Voice 1: different families um of networks and and friends so it really is truly more for us so i'm just

[1:00:51] Voice 1: just wondering, that's the concern to bring up for you guys to look at. And then those are my main

[1:00:58] Voice 1: points. I mean, it could go on forever, so I will not. And just that we have been following all the

[1:01:02] Voice 1: guidelines and I feel going above and beyond with, you know, electronic heaters that we turn off the

[1:01:09] Voice 1: second guests leave, you know, different water signs all over the place and so forth. So there's

[1:01:16] Voice 1: a lot of things that we're doing to be good to the island and to the local people and ourselves

[1:01:23] Voice 1: and our own bills and home that I hope that you guys will consider not shutting down from May 1st

[1:01:29] Voice 1: to September 30th, either for zero days or 30 days. And that's it.

[1:01:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you very much, Jane.

[1:01:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): The next person is Mark. Mark, if you take yourself off mute, we should hear you.

[1:01:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yes,

[1:01:47] Voice 12: good morning. I'm not sure, is this audio or video as well? I'm not sure what we have just

[1:01:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): do on audio.

[1:01:55] Voice 12: Okay, great. Well, listen, thank you so much for organizing this public hearing and for

[1:02:02] Voice 12: the opportunity to speak. And so I, I have submitted a written presentation. So I do

[1:02:09] Voice 12: do um submit to your uh direction as the chair that that's said that i've made a written submission

[1:02:17] Voice 12: i i do feel many of the issues i've i've raised in my submission are are compelling at least

[1:02:24] Voice 12: compelling to me but i wonder if other members of the public are are listening and is the

[1:02:31] Voice 12: discussion as a community important to be heard and if so members of the public won't

[1:02:37] Voice 12: uh necessarily read the submission so so with your permission um can i read my submission trustees

[1:02:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): i guess uh i i

[1:02:49] Voice 5: would appreciate it if it you summarize the key points of your submission

[1:02:53] Voice 5: perhaps

[1:02:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): and just so you know written submissions are all of them are available uh trust uh staff

[1:02:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): have been putting up on the public um site so so please

[1:03:04] Trustee McConchie (probable): if i can just offer my thoughts just

[1:03:05] Trustee McConchie (probable): just briefly. The written

[1:03:06] Trustee McConchie (probable): submission is excellent way because after the meeting for time management,

[1:03:10] Trustee McConchie (probable): I'm able to process your comments and opinions. But during the public discussion, just due to the

[1:03:15] Trustee McConchie (probable): fact we're limited by time, it's just, you know, if you can provide salient points for the general

[1:03:20] Trustee McConchie (probable): public to listen to rather than read from the submission, I find that to be a more effective

[1:03:23] Trustee McConchie (probable): way of communication during a meeting. Sure,

[1:03:26] Trustee McConchie (probable): I will do my best. I'll do my

[1:03:28] Voice 12: best to summarize. So

[1:03:30] Voice 12: So first of all, thanks to you as trustees for your service.

[1:03:34] Voice 12: And I do make my comments respectful of the fact that this is a public process that involves both paid staff and people like yourselves that are volunteering.

[1:03:47] Voice 12: So appreciate your time.

[1:03:49] Voice 12: And it's in respect to Dr. Morrison's comments at a previous meeting where you referred to the tricky balance that these decision-making questions raise for you, particularly issues that sometimes appear to be at odds with each other, such as the economic activity and the environmental sustainability on the island.

[1:04:12] Voice 12: I appreciate that the objective of this bylaw is to find this balance.

[1:04:18] Voice 12: So with that in mind, I do have some concerns that I have stated in previous correspondence to the trustees,

[1:04:26] Voice 12: but it's of a general nature, but focused on two specific issues,

[1:04:31] Voice 12: which I think will be evident from both my presentation and other comments.

[1:04:36] Voice 12: And that is the suggestion and the consideration that these permits will be regulating both the numbers of guests and the days allotted to rentals.

[1:04:50] Voice 12: And I think my key point here is to observe and to note that operating a short-term vacation rental has become a business.

[1:05:02] Voice 12: And one only has to look at the reviews on VRBO and other public feedback to recognize that short-term vacation rentals are under tremendous scrutiny from the public, the people that actually want to use a vacation rental.

[1:05:19] Voice 12: And one only has to look at the reviews to recognize two things.

[1:05:24] Voice 12: One, a bad operator very quickly disappears, but a good operator is recognized and the reviews bear that out.

[1:05:33] Voice 12: So I think in the case of Pender Island, many of these short-term rental operators have earned the right to be in business

[1:05:42] Voice 12: in the sense that the public, the guests that come to see them are coming because they want

[1:05:49] Voice 12: to come back, they're repeat guests. Certainly, in our case, we have observed that the guests

[1:05:56] Voice 12: that are returning to our vacation rental, and I'm speaking as an owner on Harpoon Road,

[1:06:03] Voice 12: that many of our guests are returning guests, and they're not individuals, they're families,

[1:06:08] Voice 12: multi-generational families. And I couldn't make a more compelling case than our own experience as

[1:06:16] Voice 12: a family. We're now a family of 23 people. So if we ever want to get together as a family,

[1:06:22] Voice 12: we have to use sleeping bags and tents. And our home is a place where all 23 of us can get

[1:06:31] Voice 12: together uh should we choose to but we have found in our experience of operating a vacation rental

[1:06:38] Voice 12: home for over 15 years now that the minor the major the majority of our guests are in fact

[1:06:45] Voice 12: multi-generational families the exclusion that that will occur as a result of the

[1:06:53] Voice 12: limit to the number of guests will effectively mean that most of our repeat guests would be

[1:06:59] Voice 12: be unable to return because a typical family is a set of grandparents, a couple of kids

[1:07:05] Voice 12: and a bunch of grandkids. So I plead with you as trustees to really look at this bylaw in the

[1:07:15] Voice 12: context of the type of homes that are being used for short-term vacation rentals. And I think the

[1:07:21] Voice 12: guidelines could be amended to reflect the capabilities of the home that's being considered

[1:07:28] Voice 12: as a short-term rental.

[1:07:30] Voice 12: If it has two bedrooms,

[1:07:31] Voice 12: clearly you couldn't have 12 people there

[1:07:34] Voice 12: because it just wouldn't work.

[1:07:37] Voice 12: But if the home has six bedrooms,

[1:07:40] Voice 12: then clearly the home is capable of housing a family group.

[1:07:44] Voice 12: So I think some discretion would be warranted there.

[1:07:48] Voice 12: The other main point I think is to make the argument

[1:07:53] Voice 12: that tourism as a economic activity is vital

[1:07:58] Voice 12: and important to the health and the wellbeing

[1:08:02] Voice 12: of the North Pender Island economy.

[1:08:06] Voice 12: And in my presentation, I've summarized the businesses

[1:08:11] Voice 12: that I observe have some connection with tourism

[1:08:15] Voice 12: and those that don't.

[1:08:17] Voice 12: I've made that into a list that doesn't involve

[1:08:21] Voice 12: the names of the businesses,

[1:08:22] Voice 12: But based on my anecdotal observations and also inquiries, I've learned that the businesses that I've listed as being impacted by tourism are very evident, and the ones that aren't are maybe not so evident.

[1:08:39] Voice 12: But nonetheless, they're there. If we're going to see our economy on North Pender Island emerge successfully from the induced coma that we're currently in due to COVID, I would submit and plead with U.S. trustees to allow the short-term vacation rentals to operate as they should throughout the year

[1:09:06] Voice 12: and not limit them from the prime tourism months of the summer.

[1:09:14] Voice 12: If we have no tourists, then we have no need for kayak rentals,

[1:09:19] Voice 12: for bike rentals, for vineyards.

[1:09:22] Voice 12: So many of the activities that we've cherished on the island,

[1:09:26] Voice 12: and I draw specific attention to the farmer's market

[1:09:29] Voice 12: and to the disc golf park.

[1:09:31] Voice 12: The farmer's market will not return without the benefit of tourism supporting it.

[1:09:39] Voice 12: I can't imagine ever seeing our farmer's market vibrant and active the way it used to be prior to COVID without the return of tourists.

[1:09:50] Voice 12: Because otherwise, who's going to keep buying the product that is made by so many skilled artisans, be they food or craft or art?

[1:10:03] Voice 12: I really believe that that's a terrific amenity that our island has cultivated over the years.

[1:10:12] Voice 12: The disc golf park is also a notable example.

[1:10:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): Mark, if we could keep our comments to the bylaw, please.

[1:10:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yeah,

[1:10:19] Voice 12: I guess I'm trying to make the point that economic activity is vital to the island and tourism is a part of it. And micro enterprise in the form of short term vacation rental has earned its place and has earned the trust of the trustees, I believe, and the public with responsible operations.

[1:10:36] Voice 12: So that's, that's really the essence of my presentation. And if you want to take the time to read it, it's, I've made the submission. So thank you for, for the opportunity to, to, to make my comments.

[1:10:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank, thank you very much, Mark. And just a reminder that the written comments are available, the public hearing documents that are available on the website.

[1:11:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): site um the link was on the public notice um before i go to the next person uh maybe i just

[1:11:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): i do notice we have a one phone caller in there i forget the is it star six or star nine that

[1:11:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): raises a hand function for the phone call so

[1:11:14] Voice 20: it's uh star nine to um raise your digital hand yep

[1:11:18] Voice 20: and it's star six to uh mute and unmute yourself all

[1:11:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): right so i do notice we have a phone caller

[1:11:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): are in there so a star nine would raise your hand and get you in the queue to speak um so uh next

[1:11:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): person on the list is uh michael cohen michael you should be able to speak yep

[1:11:38] Voice 10: can you hear me okay

[1:11:39] Voice 10: yes

[1:11:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): super

[1:11:41] Voice 10: um really quickly um i would like to just comment on uh section 6.4.4 the 200 meter

[1:11:47] Voice 10: meter radius. I'm at 1607 Schooner Way, and there's two or three short-term vacation rentals

[1:11:54] Voice 10: there. Now, I'm unable to apply for an STVR the way this is written because of the 200 meter radius,

[1:12:03] Voice 10: and I just don't particularly think that that is fair. I mean, if the other short-term vacation

[1:12:08] Voice 10: rentals continue to operate, I wouldn't ever have an opportunity to do that. Also, behind my house

[1:12:14] Voice 10: is a steep um slope going down and if i were to get an stvr for example the people behind me on

[1:12:23] Voice 10: storm crescent which would be 200 meters away wouldn't be able to get one because of the 200

[1:12:28] Voice 10: meter um the 200 meter radius from another stvr and that doesn't make any sense because they're

[1:12:35] Voice 10: on a completely different road further away so it just seems a bit illogical to me i think it

[1:12:39] Voice 10: would probably make more sense and again this is just my opinion if we were going to limit the

[1:12:43] Voice 10: number of short-term vacation rentals in magic lake to a specific number be at 30 or 25 or what

[1:12:48] Voice 10: have you that would probably be better um if people have ample parking i don't see where the

[1:12:54] Voice 10: 200 meter radius would have any kind of um impact and if it would it would be quite negligible

[1:12:59] Voice 10: um and that's just my respectful submission so thank you very much for listening

[1:13:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): thank you very much michael uh next person's dale dale if you take yourself off mute we can hear you

[1:13:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): else uh

[1:13:14] Voice 19: yes can you hear me

[1:13:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): yes um

[1:13:17] Voice 19: i uh would like to speak about the uh proposed uh bylaw

[1:13:21] Voice 19: number 222 um i've reviewed that and i found that there are 17 uses of the word may and 15 uses of

[1:13:30] Voice 19: the word should um if the bylaw is passed using those words may and should may is a choice to act

[1:13:40] Voice 19: act or not to act, or a promise of a possibility as distinguished from shall, which makes it

[1:13:46] Voice 19: imperative. In statutes and sometimes in contracts, the word may must be read in context to determine

[1:13:53] Voice 19: if it means an act is optional or mandatory. However, should means that a certain feature,

[1:14:00] Voice 19: component, and or action is desirable but not mandatory. Should also means a procedure is

[1:14:07] Voice 19: is recommended. Should means that a certain feature component or action is desirable but

[1:14:13] Voice 19: not mandatory. So it's long been the impression that the words shall, will, and must have about

[1:14:19] Voice 19: the same imperative weight. That is, the phrase that follows these words is a command that is not

[1:14:26] Voice 19: to be questioned. However, should falls in a category of lighter imperativeness, almost to

[1:14:32] Voice 19: the same level as may that is the phrase that follows should is a command that does not need

[1:14:39] Voice 19: to be completed and throughout this proposed bylaw 17 uses of the word may and 15 uses of the word

[1:14:47] Voice 19: should basically means that if it's passed nobody really has to comply with anything

[1:14:54] Voice 19: because when it puts in here the local trust committee may consider issuance of a short-term

[1:15:01] Voice 19: vacation rental. And other examples in here, the applicant should demonstrate an adequate supply

[1:15:11] Voice 19: of water. If the property is serviced by a community water system, the application should

[1:15:16] Voice 19: be referred to the water system for information. Short-term vacation rental temporary use permit

[1:15:21] Voice 19: should not be issued if located in Trincomalee Improvement Area, which basically means that

[1:15:28] Voice 19: if this proposed bylaw is passed using the words should and may, basically it means nothing.

[1:15:39] Voice 19: People can do whatever that they want to do. So I would strongly suggest that if you want to have

[1:15:49] Voice 19: have any teeth in this, then you should, that you must replace the words may and should

[1:15:58] Voice 19: with the words shall, will, or must, okay? So that's all I have to say on the short-term

[1:16:08] Voice 19: vacation rentals. The next item that I have is in regards to the new driveway that has been cut.

[1:16:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): Dale, can I, I'm going to start, we're in a public hearing on the short-term vacation

[1:16:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): rental bylaws. That's the topic right now that we're listening to.

[1:16:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): Oh, okay.

[1:16:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yeah, so if you can hold that and either submit that in writing to your trustees on your concerns.

[1:16:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): So right now it's just on the draft bylaw.

[1:16:46] Voice 19: Okay, so this entire meeting is strictly on the draft bylaw?

[1:16:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): No, it is not.

[1:16:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): We had a town hall at the beginning.

[1:16:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): We'll have a town hall at the end again where you can have an opportunity to bring up issues outside.

[1:16:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): But this public hearing that we're holding right this moment, it's a meeting in a meeting if you think of it that way.

[1:17:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): And we must talk about this bylaw 222 at this moment.

[1:17:11] Voice 19: Okay, sorry, I signed in late.

[1:17:13] Voice 19: I missed that first part.

[1:17:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): Apologize.

[1:17:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): That's okay.

[1:17:15] Voice 19: Hang on,

[1:17:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): there'll be another opportunity

[1:17:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): to speak later in the meeting.

[1:17:19] Voice 19: Okay, thank you, sorry.

[1:17:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): Nope, that's okay.

[1:17:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you very much, Dale.

[1:17:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): The next person is Robin.

[1:17:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): Oh, yeah, Robin.

[1:17:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): Take yourself off.

[1:17:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): Hi, everybody.

[1:17:30] Voice 17: Hi again.

[1:17:31] Voice 17: Yeah, so Robin Pettifer.

[1:17:33] Voice 17: My mother has had a place for about 50 years on Storm Crescent, and I just wanted to share, my mother isn't very well, so I'm kind of here today on her behalf, but I thought maybe very briefly with regards to the short-term rentals, which my mom does, you might be interested in hearing.

[1:17:58] Voice 17: obviously we're biased we've been lucky enough to have a permit but just we have found it a very

[1:18:06] Voice 17: very positive experience and I think personally I think the trust has done a very very good job

[1:18:13] Voice 17: I think Mr. Croker and and Michael Cohen and and the lady forgive me I didn't get her name before

[1:18:20] Voice 17: those two gentlemen we spoke I thought they had made some very very good points

[1:18:23] Voice 17: As my mother being, fortunately, a holder of a permit, I think you guys, as a trust, do a very, very good job in doing a balance.

[1:18:36] Voice 17: I think your regulations are effective in ensuring that people don't exceed the limit.

[1:18:44] Voice 17: limit um i from from our viewpoint uh it's actually not in the homeowner's interest to to

[1:18:52] Voice 17: have more people than what the house can accommodate because then it's not good for your

[1:18:56] Voice 17: house and what we actually do is we always have less people we don't allow more uh we we actually

[1:19:02] Voice 17: have less people than what we're allowed because we don't even want what we're allowed um i think

[1:19:08] Voice 17: i think what we've learned is communication is as you point out is essential so uh for example

[1:19:13] Voice 17: Michael Cohen, I think, you know, as long as there's communication between people wanting

[1:19:22] Voice 17: permits and people living in communities, and you guys are hearing about it, then I think

[1:19:28] Voice 17: then that's what should happen. And we do our best to communicate with our neighbors on either

[1:19:35] Voice 17: side and up the street. And that's what makes for good new neighbors and happy communities. So

[1:19:42] Voice 17: So I think we've learned that communication is essential to let people know what's going on.

[1:19:48] Voice 17: And the lady's point with regards to 30-day limits, yeah, I mean, I think, again, that goes back to the case-by-case situation.

[1:19:55] Voice 17: I think every house is different, and you guys would be the best judge on what's appropriate.

[1:20:03] Voice 17: But just overall, I guess our thanks.

[1:20:06] Voice 17: It's been a very, very good experience.

[1:20:07] Voice 17: um i would think is you probably agree most homeowners don't want to uh just do this for

[1:20:14] Voice 17: a business we do it for to support our mother who's not not well um but as long as there's

[1:20:19] Voice 17: communication i think every case is different um there's always a possibility of enforcement and

[1:20:26] Voice 17: as long as the homeowner knows that hey they can be checked on if they actually are doing

[1:20:31] Voice 17: things not by the book then that's what's important um and finally just on a kind of a

[1:20:37] Voice 17: a more general level again it's been not only i think positive for the island but for the guests

[1:20:43] Voice 17: who come they've come from as far away as new york um and as mr croker was saying i think it really

[1:20:50] Voice 17: does benefit the island to to you know promote pender people are it's pender is on the map um i

[1:20:57] Voice 17: know there's that balance between the environment and development and and that's always a concern

[1:21:01] Voice 17: But we, I think, modesty aside, I think we've done a good thing, as our neighbors have with us, in promoting Pender.

[1:21:10] Voice 17: Again, people as far away as New York say, what a lovely place Pender is.

[1:21:14] Voice 17: And so, so far, it's been a great experience.

[1:21:18] Voice 17: So thanks to all.

[1:21:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you very much, Robin.

[1:21:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): And

[1:21:21] Voice 17: good luck to Michael and Mr. Croker and the lady as well.

[1:21:24] Voice 17: And please reach out if you ever need any advice or suggestions.

[1:21:29] Voice 17: Again, Robin Petter for Storm Crescent.

[1:21:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): all right thank you uh so the next person is neil yeah

[1:21:38] Voice 23: hi back again um so uh yeah great comments

[1:21:43] Voice 23: on here and thanks so much again as always for having this format um i have as i noted before

[1:21:48] Voice 23: my enormously lengthy letter that sorry i got really excited and started writing a lot of stuff

[1:21:54] Voice 23: but i've sent that in so that's i can see the public record so that's there um uh so i i will

[1:22:00] Voice 23: definitely not try to repeat the letter um i just wanted to highlight a couple things from it to

[1:22:06] Voice 23: make it kind of on record and to you know comment that aligns with some of the other people who are

[1:22:11] Voice 23: speaking um i guess my my overall things um i i'm still struggling on the idea of really always

[1:22:18] Voice 23: these when we when we put bylaws in it's about what are we trying to change and i you know i

[1:22:24] Voice 23: work in environmental and sustainability you know i have a uvic originally biologist from 25 years

[1:22:29] Voice 23: years ago. I, you know, grew up coming to Pender Island. So I'm all for putting in great regulations

[1:22:37] Voice 23: that, you know, help reduce water impacts and all those things too. I guess the challenge is I feel

[1:22:45] Voice 23: like the short-term vacation rentals are kind of being highlighted and targeted as the problems

[1:22:52] Voice 23: that we're trying to solve, really. You know, I know that ferry traffic's been a problem in the

[1:22:56] Voice 23: the summer for decades and so um and i you know when we think about the thousands of people who

[1:23:03] Voice 23: come here on summer weekends to come to visit their own properties with their own families and

[1:23:06] Voice 23: friends how many of those are really actually coming who are paid who are paying to come to

[1:23:12] Voice 23: come to our place and how many are effectively replacing us so the people at the house so for

[1:23:17] Voice 23: instance if i don't come on the august long weekend to my own cottage but somebody else

[1:23:21] Voice 23: comes and pays to come to my cottage on the long weekend that's the same amount of ferry traffic

[1:23:26] Voice 23: traffic um and so we also have lots of other places that we you know that rent we have poets

[1:23:32] Voice 23: and lots of um people who come camping and like that and so i really want to ask our you know

[1:23:38] Voice 23: while we're doing these kind of things to try to restrict uh the short-term vacation rentals like

[1:23:43] Voice 23: what problems are we trying to solve and i i hear about the ferry issues and i hear about water

[1:23:48] Voice 23: issues things like that too and on the water one you know we have a lot of problem with not having

[1:23:53] Voice 23: enough long-term rental properties and people say well it'd be better if you just rented your

[1:23:59] Voice 23: property at full-time well of course my family and I use our property 75% of the time so that

[1:24:05] Voice 23: doesn't really work for us and if we rented it full-time then there'd be somebody in there

[1:24:10] Voice 23: using the shower you know full-time and using it whereas our neighbors they live there full-time

[1:24:16] Voice 23: they irrigate their garden you know they have a shower every day I assume so we have to kind of

[1:24:22] Voice 23: to watch these these balance of these trade-off things um that make it uh make it seem like it's

[1:24:29] Voice 23: really all the these terrible tourists who are coming having super long showers and stuff um

[1:24:34] Voice 23: and i and i know you're always trying to find that balance i guess the other balancing issue

[1:24:39] Voice 23: you have is just like the color my cottage is tiny it's 650 square feet we've we've squeezed

[1:24:45] Voice 23: sleeping bunk beds in there uh for all these years for up to seven people our permits for

[1:24:51] Voice 23: up to six. I think we've only rarely had more than four. And most of the time, it's just a couple in

[1:24:56] Voice 23: there. And so whereas I know there's other callers on here who have large properties on acreage. And

[1:25:03] Voice 23: so I know you're trying to find a balance where you want to have one set of rules. But it's very

[1:25:07] Voice 23: different for my little cottage that gets used, you know, with one or two rentals a month for

[1:25:12] Voice 23: somebody else who has a place that they never stay in. So I just wanted to throw those things

[1:25:17] Voice 23: out there is trying to remember as we're going through this I just ask us all to say like what

[1:25:22] Voice 23: problem are we trying to solve with these these changes because I think that overall it's really

[1:25:27] Voice 23: great that we have permit and that we have this and you know you can have these dialogues with

[1:25:31] Voice 23: the permit holders and we can you know it's not an unregulated wild party situation like it might

[1:25:36] Voice 23: have been years ago. I also wanted to congratulate you on on two changes that I think are great so

[1:25:42] Voice 23: So one of them in 6.413, which is that you've shifted the radius for informing your neighbors

[1:25:48] Voice 23: down to 100 meters.

[1:25:49] Voice 23: When I did mine, it was 200 meters.

[1:25:53] Voice 23: And it meant more than 30 houses I had to go to, which they're around the corner from

[1:25:59] Voice 23: me.

[1:25:59] Voice 23: They're on other streets from me.

[1:26:00] Voice 23: They don't even know who I am.

[1:26:02] Voice 23: They have no idea where my house is.

[1:26:03] Voice 23: And it seemed very far away.

[1:26:05] Voice 23: So I think that's good.

[1:26:07] Voice 23: good. And also 6.414D, where you clarified that the on island kind of emergency contact

[1:26:14] Voice 23: should needs to be available at all times when the short term vacation rental is in use. Because

[1:26:20] Voice 23: that's another thing where there was a discrepancy where it previously said 24-7 year round. And I'm

[1:26:26] Voice 23: like, well, if I only rent my cottage, you know, one weekend in the year, why does you know, why

[1:26:31] Voice 23: do I have to make sure I have a 24 hour contact on the island when I'm there, for instance. So I

[1:26:36] Voice 23: I thought that was a great positive change.

[1:26:39] Voice 23: And I will try to wrap, you know, there was three main things that I put in my letter.

[1:26:43] Voice 23: So I'm just going to reiterate them quickly.

[1:26:45] Voice 23: But and that's that, of course, like a lot of other speakers, 6.44, the 200 meter, there's

[1:26:51] Voice 23: a, you all know, there's a lot of challenges with that.

[1:26:54] Voice 23: You can imagine my opinion on it.

[1:26:56] Voice 23: And you've read it that I think it actually penalizes people in our neighborhood versus

[1:27:01] Voice 23: being a guidance and like a guideline of how do we say we don't want, we don't, nobody

[1:27:06] Voice 23: wants five on a street and so how do we come up with a way to try to give guidance on that

[1:27:11] Voice 23: so I'd like that that one to be removed and changed 6.415 limiting the number of bedrooms

[1:27:19] Voice 23: I think at the end of the day we should just limit the number of people per permit

[1:27:23] Voice 23: the number of bedrooms is irrelevant technically we have three bedrooms in a 650 square place

[1:27:29] Voice 23: as you can imagine the door bumps into all three beds in every single room but limiting the number

[1:27:34] Voice 23: of bedrooms is not necessarily the best way that's why we have the limited number of people so

[1:27:38] Voice 23: i don't even know if you need that stipulation but it is a it's a guidance part so that's fine

[1:27:43] Voice 23: and then the last one is on the 30 days in a calendar year so if i read that correctly

[1:27:49] Voice 23: may to september is i mean that's approximately 150 or so days and you're suggesting only 30 of

[1:27:56] Voice 23: them so that means only a possibility to rent your place uh what i guess would be about 20

[1:28:01] Voice 23: percent of the time if my math is somewhat correct I think there could be some better ways I

[1:28:06] Voice 23: definitely I can understand that my neighbors and don't want to have the property rented you know

[1:28:12] Voice 23: every single day for 150 days through the summer so there has to be some other way to rewrite that

[1:28:18] Voice 23: if it for me personally if it said something like what about 50 percent of the days per month or it

[1:28:25] Voice 23: said something about 50% of the total days in this, you know, five month period. So we were

[1:28:32] Voice 23: then looking at something like 75 days in total. That would allow us, for instance, in the month

[1:28:37] Voice 23: of August, if we wanted to rent it to a two week rental in the month of August, you know, and then

[1:28:42] Voice 23: we have and then we're there for two weeks, that sounds really reasonable and great. But I think

[1:28:47] Voice 23: 30 out of 150 days is much too strict. So yeah, so again, thank you so much for your time. I know

[1:28:53] Voice 23: know this is a probably a challenging meeting for you all to have and to sit through hearing all

[1:28:58] Voice 23: these things and I and it also probably feels fairly unbiased or biased that it's only the TPU

[1:29:03] Voice 23: callers who are constantly sending letters while there's you know 2,000 other people on the island

[1:29:08] Voice 23: and I'm uh yeah I hope you take that into consideration that maybe part of the reason

[1:29:14] Voice 23: why you don't hear too much from all the other people is because when I talk to all my neighbors

[1:29:18] Voice 23: around like I went door to door and went to 30 people and I have one neighbor that I'll be honest

[1:29:23] Voice 23: we have longtime civil issues about the property line and trees and we don't get along great and

[1:29:28] Voice 23: that's that's a whole civil problem but every other neighbor i've ever talked to they come and

[1:29:33] Voice 23: use our place they have their relatives rent our place um they never we don't have any complaints

[1:29:38] Voice 23: about them they say they ended up talking to this guy about fishing last week who was here

[1:29:42] Voice 23: from manitoba visiting your place we we haven't had any noise complaints and i just just uh there's

[1:29:48] Voice 23: a bias in these of course in these surveys and the feedback and i just want us all to remember that

[1:29:52] Voice 23: But overall, I think the permit process has been great.

[1:29:55] Voice 23: It keeps everybody informed and we're all doing hard work to just try to.

[1:30:00] Voice 23: uh be engaging the community on this thank you so much for all your time thank

[1:30:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): you neil i see

[1:30:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): michael sketch has raised his hand michael i'm

[1:30:10] Trustee McConchie (probable): sorry point of order chair patrick i we just heard

[1:30:14] Trustee McConchie (probable): from i believe uh michael sketch used a derogatory term towards me during the meeting at the

[1:30:21] Trustee McConchie (probable): beginning i'm just wondering why we why trustees have to take this type of abuse i don't believe

[1:30:28] Trustee McConchie (probable): Michael should have the privilege of speaking anymore at this meeting or any subsequent

[1:30:32] Trustee McConchie (probable): meetings.

[1:30:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): I think I'd like to be able to get more informed before we make that decision.

[1:30:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): Well, there's a video recording.

[1:30:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yeah, I think we will have to examine that.

[1:30:44] Trustee McConchie (probable): Well, I'm telling you, Patrick, I'm uncomfortable right now in the workplace being verbally abused

[1:30:50] Trustee McConchie (probable): used by someone.

[1:30:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): Trustees or Trustee Morrison, what would you like to do?

[1:31:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): I'd be looking for advice as well.

[1:31:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): Trustee Morrison.

[1:31:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): So

[1:31:06] Voice 5: I did hear the comment.

[1:31:08] Voice 5: So I do think an apology is necessary

[1:31:11] Voice 5: if the speaker wishes to continue today.

[1:31:13] Voice 5: And I am unsure what are,

[1:31:16] Voice 5: if we have any protocols as opposed to that.

[1:31:19] Trustee McConchie (probable): Well, we do have a protocol.

[1:31:20] Trustee McConchie (probable): Chair Patrick read at the beginning of the meeting.

[1:31:22] Trustee McConchie (probable): this is a safe workplace right and i would do the exact same for my fellow trustees and defend them

[1:31:28] Trustee McConchie (probable): it is inappropriate to name call trustees and i am tired of people bullying trustees in this

[1:31:36] Trustee McConchie (probable): community and treating us like we are garbage inappropriate so i would appreciate my fellow

[1:31:43] Trustee McConchie (probable): trustees supporting this uh idea to not allow mr sketch to speak at the meeting

[1:31:49] Trustee McConchie (probable): Oh,

[1:31:51] Voice 5: I think that it's inappropriate. I completely support that. However, I was thinking about this in the context of, you know, just the way in which people are being heard and expressing themselves and have the opportunity to still contribute to the conversation, but have to atone for that kind of behavior.

[1:32:16] Voice 5: so maybe that is something that today that's not an option to speak but i do think that we can't

[1:32:23] Voice 5: restrict um public communication completely if somebody is like leaning into the issue and

[1:32:29] Voice 5: apologizing

[1:32:32] Trustee McConchie (probable): so sorry just a second we have a policy in place it's a safe workplace a person

[1:32:40] Trustee McConchie (probable): a member of the public has abused that policy are we following the policy or not following the

[1:32:46] Trustee McConchie (probable): policy.

[1:32:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): What is the policy? That's my question. I said, I was looking for advice on what to do

[1:32:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): with the circumstance. I think we have to make a decision in the moment.

[1:32:57] Trustee McConchie (probable): Guys, are we going to

[1:32:58] Trustee McConchie (probable): accept name calling at our meetings?

[1:32:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): No, we do not accept. And I think we all support you that

[1:33:02] Trustee McConchie (probable): we do not allow people to speak at the meeting or a name call. I understand that. It's the normal

[1:33:09] Trustee McConchie (probable): government practice. You get kicked out of the legislature. You get kicked out of municipal

[1:33:14] Trustee McConchie (probable): municipal halls if you call someone names it's not appropriate i'm done with it and i'm done

[1:33:20] Trustee McConchie (probable): with kind of the the bullying that happens you know i'm i've had enough so sorry to vent but

[1:33:26] Trustee McConchie (probable): i mean come on we gotta we gotta make a stand at some point i

[1:33:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): i i hear you i'm just saying in the

[1:33:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): moment i i i absolutely support that no one should be bullying anyone i'm just looking for advice in

[1:33:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): the moment uh i've heard my

[1:33:46] Trustee McConchie (probable): advice is to not allow mr sketch to speak at our meeting today

[1:33:50] Trustee McConchie (probable): i think

[1:33:53] Voice 5: that we need to get some guidance chair patrick on whether that

[1:33:59] Voice 5: means i

[1:34:01] Trustee Patrick (probable): i agree okay so

[1:34:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): i will call for right now i'm uh michael we're not going to um we're going to step over this at

[1:34:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): moment i will look for uh staff advice in the moment if anyone if i can get that advice but

[1:34:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): at the moment we're going to skip step over you and um thank you chair

[1:34:22] Voice 18: patrick if i may

[1:34:23] Voice 18: just to provide another opportunity if michael sketch um action is it would like to speak on

[1:34:30] Voice 18: the issue he can write a quick email to the vic ph sub at audience trust.bc.ca and put in a written

[1:34:36] Voice 18: written submission rather than speaking perhaps that's a quick option until we look into this

[1:34:44] Voice 18: further and I believe we've also received a written submission in the last few minutes

[1:34:51] Voice 18: although we can certainly deal with that at the end of those who would like to speak.

[1:34:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): Right thank you very much Planner Stockdale for that good advice so Michael we welcome you to

[1:35:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): to write in what you had planned to say

[1:35:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): to the email address that's here.

[1:35:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): So the next speaker is Doug.

[1:35:17] Voice 13: Hello.

[1:35:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): Hello.

[1:35:19] Voice 13: Hi there.

[1:35:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): Go ahead,

[1:35:22] Voice 13: we can hear you.

[1:35:23] Voice 13: You can hear me?

[1:35:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yes.

[1:35:25] Voice 13: Excellent.

[1:35:27] Voice 13: Short introduction.

[1:35:29] Voice 13: My name is Doug Regeer, 427 Buccaneers Road.

[1:35:33] Voice 13: I'm a retiree, just finished building a cabin.

[1:35:38] Voice 13: retirement cabin on pender and i live directly beside a person that has a temporary use permit

[1:35:47] Voice 13: for a short-term rental uh the permits been in effect uh for three years um there have been

[1:35:56] Voice 13: ongoing issues between um myself and i'm trying not to be personal please cut me off if i am i

[1:36:03] Voice 13: don't want to be personal by any means but i do need to get the point across yeah

[1:36:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): i do yeah we

[1:36:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): We don't talk about people or issues, but do your best there, please.

[1:36:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): I will.

[1:36:13] Voice 13: If I am, just let me know.

[1:36:16] Voice 13: So a bit of background.

[1:36:18] Voice 13: I never, ever received an on-island contact from the permit holder for over three years.

[1:36:25] Voice 13: So I've been trying to handle the issues that I've been having, noise issues and such, with the permit holder directly.

[1:36:33] Voice 13: so um which we've come into conflict now um had i had an online contact um we probably may not be

[1:36:43] Voice 13: in conflict um when i do uh raise issues of noise complaints uh very takes over 24 hours to get back

[1:36:51] Voice 13: to me um i've been shamed on public media for complaining about the noise by the honor review

[1:36:57] Voice 13: on Airbnb, which is really disappointing.

[1:37:02] Voice 13: So, just a little bit of context.

[1:37:04] Voice 13: My house is about, or my bedroom window is about 60 feet or so

[1:37:10] Voice 13: away from the rental.

[1:37:11] Voice 13: So, we get all the noise.

[1:37:14] Voice 13: Just people talking is a lot of noise.

[1:37:18] Voice 13: There's a hot tub quite close as well.

[1:37:22] Voice 13: So, we hear all that.

[1:37:27] Voice 13: the there's a lot of so there's a lot of traffic a lot of people coming and going on the small cabin

[1:37:32] Voice 13: 50 60 feet away I think we need to look at or should look at some way of looking at the proximity

[1:37:38] Voice 13: between the two places of the application and looking at who's beside and how close would be

[1:37:43] Voice 13: I think useful I think there should be some follow-up to the permit holder to ensure that

[1:37:51] Voice 13: there's compliance with the shalls and the musts in the permit.

[1:38:00] Voice 13: There needs, I like the idea of the fencing and the screening, but I think it would be important

[1:38:10] Voice 13: for the permit holder to pay for those fences and screening. In my case, I've been asked to

[1:38:18] Voice 13: to get a legal survey and do the fencing myself.

[1:38:21] Voice 13: I don't think that's right.

[1:38:23] Voice 13: So I think you should look at maybe having the permit holder

[1:38:28] Voice 13: install fences and screen to ensure that there's,

[1:38:31] Voice 13: the property is delineated because I've had issues

[1:38:34] Voice 13: where the tenants I've parked on my property, right?

[1:38:38] Voice 13: If there was a fence or something that delineated

[1:38:40] Voice 13: my property, there would be probably alleviate that issue.

[1:38:43] Voice 13: I'll try to be short.

[1:38:44] Voice 13: I don't, I'm sorry, I'm going on here.

[1:38:46] Voice 13: You're probably getting-

[1:38:47] Voice 13: Thank

[1:38:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): you. You're giving specific examples on the bylaw, and that is very helpful.

[1:38:51] Voice 13: Okay, thank you. So the 30-day out of the five months, or I think it is the five months,

[1:39:03] Voice 13: I like that. To be honest with you, I think it doesn't go far enough. I would prefer a bylaw

[1:39:08] Voice 13: that only allowed rentals if there was an owner on site. In my case, that would be very helpful.

[1:39:16] Voice 13: I think it would it would eliminate the amount of traffic if you can imagine with all the rentals

[1:39:24] Voice 13: that are going on right directly beside me the person also has a large family and has noted that

[1:39:30] Voice 13: they spend a lot of time there as well so it's a revolving door again I'm a retiree I bought and

[1:39:37] Voice 13: built my place and I want to live there and I want to enjoy the peace and quiet and a good lifestyle

[1:39:42] Voice 13: style that the island offers and it's really affected my lifestyle. I think that's pretty

[1:39:52] Voice 13: much it. I don't use a lot of water. I don't irrigate my lawn. I have one of the nicest lawns

[1:39:59] Voice 13: on the lake there. I'm only saying that because I've read some of the correspondence and there

[1:40:04] Voice 13: may be some alluding that I'm doing a lot of watering. You can check my meter. I don't use

[1:40:09] Voice 13: lot of water. It's basically irrigated naturally with rain. I do think there are issues with

[1:40:17] Voice 13: water and sewage. People should also know that the amount of water you use is directly related

[1:40:23] Voice 13: to the amount of sewage that you're producing as well. So you should be looking at that as well.

[1:40:28] Voice 13: And I think that's pretty much it and I do again thank you for your time and putting this on.

[1:40:33] Voice 13: All right.

[1:40:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you very much, Doug. We have Neil again. Just a moment, Neil, before I was

[1:40:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): going to say, before we get to a second time, I just want to make sure others can, I just,

[1:40:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): you've already spoken once. Can I just make sure there's others that have an opportunity to speak

[1:41:00] Voice 8: first?

[1:41:01] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you, Neil. Sorry, are there other people who would like to speak during the public

[1:41:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): hearing on bylaw 222. Neil since I'm not seeing anyone else go ahead.

[1:41:18] Voice 23: Yeah great and so obviously

[1:41:21] Voice 23: it's pretty obvious to everybody where the conflict here is and I don't want to start an

[1:41:26] Voice 23: online back and forth. Yeah Neil that's

[1:41:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): we don't I don't we're not interested in that we want to

[1:41:32] Voice 23: talk about the bylaw. Absolutely and that's exactly what I wanted to talk about. I did want to say

[1:41:36] Voice 23: that I acknowledge that I think the challenge here for neighbors and with all respect to my

[1:41:42] Voice 23: neighbors, is very difficult for neighbors to know what's the difference between me being on

[1:41:49] Voice 23: my property, a family member, a friend who hasn't paid, so nothing to do with commercial, or

[1:41:56] Voice 23: actually a renter. And I think that's one of the challenges you have as trying to deal with this

[1:42:02] Voice 23: bylaw. A number of the issues that have been brought up by my neighbor are related specifically

[1:42:08] Voice 23: specifically to people who haven't actually paid to be there, their family, friends,

[1:42:13] Voice 23: or myself, and things like that. And as I mentioned, even in my previous comments,

[1:42:17] Voice 23: we have lots of other civil issues that have nothing to do and go back many years that have

[1:42:21] Voice 23: nothing to do with the rental part, like whether we have tree issues or property line issues.

[1:42:26] Voice 23: So I just want to say, I don't know how to solve that in this bylaw. I don't think we should have

[1:42:31] Voice 23: have to like inform our neighbors when uh somebody there is paying versus somebody's a friend or

[1:42:38] Voice 23: versus a cousin um and uh but yeah we we use our property with people not paying more than 75% of

[1:42:46] Voice 23: the time and I think the the blur becomes are these guests are these paying guests are these

[1:42:53] Voice 23: are these parts of our family and I so I don't know really how to for you all to solve that in

[1:42:58] Voice 23: bylaw um i'm open to considerations around that and uh but i do respect the fact that that's very

[1:43:03] Voice 23: challenging for our neighbors to know whether or not these impacts have anything to do with

[1:43:08] Voice 23: paying guests or not kind of thing and and in my most of the time it's actually nothing to do with

[1:43:13] Voice 23: them i'm notoriously the loudest person on the lake personally and so is my brother

[1:43:18] Voice 23: so thank you so much thank

[1:43:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): thank you neil um i see there's a jade just

[1:43:27] Voice 1: one question if these

[1:43:29] Voice 1: were to go into place when would they go into place?

[1:43:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): Oh that would have been a question for

[1:43:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): the community information meeting but I looked at planner Stockdale quickly to remind on the

[1:43:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): process of bylaw changes.

[1:43:43] Voice 18: Yes if the LTC after the close of this public hearing there is a staff

[1:43:49] Voice 18: report that outlines the process you can take a look at it there but there are resolutions that

[1:43:55] Voice 18: that the LTC give second and third reading,

[1:43:58] Voice 18: at which point the bylaw will go to executive committee

[1:44:02] Voice 18: for approval.

[1:44:03] Voice 18: And then after that, if it gets approval,

[1:44:05] Voice 18: it goes to the minister of municipal affairs.

[1:44:08] Voice 18: And that takes a few months.

[1:44:09] Voice 18: So potentially this could take up

[1:44:11] Voice 18: to sometime summer, early fall potentially,

[1:44:17] Voice 18: hopefully not that long,

[1:44:18] Voice 18: but potentially sometime in the summer.

[1:44:20] Voice 1: Okay, got it, thank you.

[1:44:22] Voice 18: Feel free to email if you'd like,

[1:44:23] Voice 18: and i can give you that information as well

[1:44:25] Voice 1: that's helpful thank you all right thank you jade

[1:44:28] Voice 1: and

[1:44:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): before i call for it i want to remind that written submissions need to be received before

[1:44:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): the close of the hearing and the email address is vic ph sub at islands trust.bc.ca

[1:44:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): is there anyone else that wishes to address us today as i said i'm going to have to ask three

[1:44:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): three times so the second time is there anyone else that wishes to address us in the public

[1:45:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): hearing today and ask a third time is there anyone that wishes to address us today i'm going to pause

[1:45:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): and look to um staff to see if there are um did we receive additional uh chair patrick's oh yes

[1:45:32] Voice 20: excuse me um

[1:45:33] Voice 20: so chair patrick we received um three public hearing submissions to the vic ph sub email

[1:45:40] Voice 20: and i forwarded them all to you

[1:45:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): okay um so what is the process i'm going to look to staff i'm sorry

[1:45:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): these electronic uh public hearings are always challenging um can we just read those uh that

[1:45:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): they've been received between now and the time we consider the uh the bylaw later in the agenda

[1:46:01] Trustee Patrick (probable): or we'll take a break at some point

[1:46:03] Voice 3: okay you've received them so that's that's the stipulation

[1:46:06] Voice 3: is they have to be received before the

[1:46:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): close of the

[1:46:08] Voice 3: hearing well

[1:46:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): then that i will proceed with

[1:46:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): closing the public hearing please note that after this public now that this public hearing is closed

[1:46:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): that the local trust committee members may no longer receive public submissions

[1:46:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): prior to making their decision and as well as while the you know if they do make decisions

[1:46:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): and proceed that they cannot receive any more information on this bylaw so with

[1:46:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): that we are closed I'm sorry I'm just double checking my script I apologize

[1:46:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): here while I read this and and that's good all right this hearing is closed

[1:46:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): do I'm gonna look to the trustees would you like to take a break for a moment

[1:47:01] Trustee Patrick (probable): I'm seeing nods of yes how much time would you like five ten minutes which

[1:47:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): 10 minutes. So we're going to take a 10-minute break. If we could put that note up on the screen

[1:47:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): that we're taking a 10-minute break and let's get back just three minutes there before 11.

[1:47:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): Okay,

[1:47:24] Voice 20: I will put that up, Chair Patrick.

[1:47:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right, thank you. All right, welcome back,

[1:58:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): trustees. You ready to proceed? Trustee McConkie, you ready? All right, great. Okay, moving on

[1:58:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): On the agenda, we are at item 8.1,

[1:58:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): which is the minutes from the special meeting

[1:58:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): dated January 15th.

[1:59:01] Trustee Patrick (probable): It's on page four of the agenda package.

[1:59:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): Are there any additions or corrections

[1:59:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): that need to be made to these minutes?

[1:59:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): I'm not seeing any.

[1:59:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): Can we approve those minutes through general consent?

[1:59:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): Okay, great.

[1:59:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): So those are approved.

[1:59:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): The next set of minutes is from the regular meeting

[1:59:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): dated January 28th at page seven in the agenda package.

[1:59:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): are there any additions or changes that need to be made to those minutes as I

[1:59:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): had trustee McConkie I can't hear you if you're speaking no so I'm seeing none so

[1:59:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): we can approve those minutes through general consent all right excellent we

[1:59:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): have some advisory planning Commission meetings minutes here from both January

[1:59:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): 18th and February 4th just for our receipt and again thank you very much to

[1:59:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): the advisory planning Commission's for taking the time to meet and just a quick

[1:59:58] Trustee McConchie (probable): Quick comment about that.

[1:59:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yes.

[1:59:59] Trustee McConchie (probable): About the.

[2:00:00] Trustee McConchie (probable): minutes so there's some specific properties identified i wasn't really i was just like

[2:00:05] Trustee McConchie (probable): i'm not sure why the apc went in to discuss specific properties um so i'm wondering in

[2:00:14] Trustee McConchie (probable): the minutes if they need to be in there do you understand do you do uh if you just look sorry

[2:00:20] Trustee McConchie (probable): i'm just finding

[2:00:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): yeah no i i do recall

[2:00:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): those um yeah

[2:00:23] Trustee McConchie (probable): like uh you know they go through comments

[2:00:29] Trustee McConchie (probable): comments for every specific property. Um, I was, I'm not, I was hoping the APC would give more

[2:00:37] Trustee McConchie (probable): general comments, um, rather than go through a general specific addresses. Um, so I'm not,

[2:00:48] Trustee McConchie (probable): I'm not quite sure. Should the minutes reflect that? Um,

[2:00:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): I don't know. I'll look to staff on,

[2:01:00] Trustee McConchie (probable): because yeah because the apc is just basically stating on this property blah blah blah the

[2:01:06] Trustee McConchie (probable): residential address we think this

[2:01:07] Voice 3: should

[2:01:08] Trustee McConchie (probable): happen right yeah

[2:01:10] Voice 3: i think the minutes reflect what they

[2:01:12] Voice 3: did yeah whether that's what the ltc wants or not i mean you can take those comments as you wish

[2:01:17] Voice 3: right put whatever weight you want to them i don't think there's any issues with with privacy

[2:01:21] Voice 3: they're just identifying the properties by yeah

[2:01:23] Trustee McConchie (probable): just wanted to okay thanks robert yeah

[2:01:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): okay thank

[2:01:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you.

[2:01:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): Okay.

[2:01:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): Sorry.

[2:01:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): So we have the follow-up action list.

[2:01:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): It's on page 23 of the agenda package.

[2:01:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): Are there any questions for staff

[2:01:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): or any items that staff would like to discuss

[2:01:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): that are on the follow-up action report?

[2:01:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): Not seeing anyone raising their hands.

[2:01:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): So good detail.

[2:01:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you.

[2:01:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): So we move on to,

[2:02:01] Trustee Patrick (probable): we have on to

[2:02:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): we don't have any delegations today

[2:02:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): so we'll move on to applications

[2:02:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): and we're going to take

[2:02:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): item 12.2 first

[2:02:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): which is the development permit

[2:02:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): for Dakin

[2:02:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): and we have a staff report on page

[2:02:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): 207

[2:02:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): I see planner testimony

[2:02:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): thank you Chair Patrick

[2:02:29] Voice 11: sure

[2:02:29] Voice 11: so application

[2:02:34] Voice 11: NPDP 2020

[2:02:35] Voice 11: 2020.6, which is for Bruce Dakin, is to permit development and land alteration within the

[2:02:43] Voice 11: Sydney Island geotechnical permit area on the property itself.

[2:02:48] Voice 11: The objectives of the designation for the DPA are threefold, and that's first to protect

[2:02:55] Voice 11: the shoreline banks from development activities which exacerbate the natural erosion process,

[2:03:00] Voice 11: to limit development in hazardous areas susceptible to erosion, and to preserve

[2:03:05] Voice 11: excuse me, the integrity of coastal processes and reduce cumulative impacts to the coastal shoreline.

[2:03:12] Voice 11: So this application is being made for the purpose of constructing a single family dwelling and for

[2:03:18] Voice 11: the removal of seven mature trees, which is to provide a conservative view corridor for the

[2:03:24] Voice 11: dwelling on the property. So the applicants are requesting that the dwelling be moved,

[2:03:28] Voice 11: sorry, located further westward to afford a better building site with better views

[2:03:34] Voice 11: than would be permitted with the current setback.

[2:03:38] Voice 11: And if you reference Figure 2, which is page 210 on the agenda,

[2:03:44] Voice 11: so that indicates the location of the DPAs and the proposed new DPA line for Area B.

[2:03:53] Voice 11: I'll get to that in a second.

[2:03:54] Voice 11: So this is being made in advance of any building permit application

[2:03:57] Voice 11: as they're basically needing to finalize their buildable area before they can undertake any

[2:04:03] Voice 11: detailed design. So the specifics of the permit, and again referencing this figure two, will be

[2:04:09] Voice 11: to move the boundary of the geotechnical hazard area B seaward a maximum of 16 meters towards

[2:04:17] Voice 11: the crest of the slope on the subject property. So the minimum distance remaining to the crest

[2:04:23] Voice 11: the slope will be retained at 25 meters and as required a geotechnical hazard assessment report

[2:04:31] Voice 11: was submitted to the islands trust and that's attached and then that was revised at staff's

[2:04:37] Voice 11: request basically to include a checklist verifying all of the guidelines so this dpa just for

[2:04:45] Voice 11: background was established as part of the ocp bylaw number 147 and it coincides with a covenant

[2:04:51] Voice 11: that's on all affected properties as well which was registered at the time a subdivision of the

[2:04:58] Voice 11: island and it was based on a background geotechnical report by levelton engineering

[2:05:04] Voice 11: and essentially what that identified was uh the geotechnical hazard condition where the soil

[2:05:11] Voice 11: sandbags along the western and northeasterly shorelines of sydney island which are not

[2:05:16] Voice 11: protected by bedrock and are steeper and susceptible to ongoing toe erosion and the landlord

[2:05:23] Voice 11: which can result in landlord regression of the crest of the slope essentially at moving the

[2:05:30] Voice 11: slope failing in the crest of the slope moving in an eastward direction so it summarized that

[2:05:36] Voice 11: the building site should be located beyond recommended setbacks and a disturbance to

[2:05:41] Voice 11: the shoreline banks by stormwater drainage land alteration and vegetation disturbance

[2:05:46] Voice 11: or other means should be avoided so that DPA has two components there's the shoreline banks which

[2:05:54] Voice 11: are the obviously the steeper areas susceptible to failure and erosion which are area a and then

[2:06:02] Voice 11: the relatively level upland area b which is beyond the crest of the shoreline banks and

[2:06:08] Voice 11: And it's in this area that the proposed development

[2:06:12] Voice 11: and the alteration is being requested.

[2:06:18] Voice 11: So the submitted geotechnical report

[2:06:20] Voice 11: analyzed the level turn report,

[2:06:22] Voice 11: the geological onsite conditions

[2:06:25] Voice 11: for the makeup and the slope and on the subject property

[2:06:29] Voice 11: and what was being proposed in terms of

[2:06:32] Voice 11: the location of the house and the tree removal.

[2:06:34] Voice 11: And it concluded that the land alteration

[2:06:36] Voice 11: will not alter the risk of geotechnical hazard or adversely impact existing slope stability.

[2:06:45] Voice 11: That, as I mentioned before, a request included a checklist which the professional,

[2:06:52] Voice 11: which is a seal professional assessment of each of the applicable guidelines

[2:07:00] Voice 11: and certifies that the proposed development and the tree removal would comply

[2:07:07] Voice 11: with each of those guidelines and not place the house in an area of, excuse me, I'm just

[2:07:17] Voice 11: going to talk in my head, over a certain standard for susceptibility to slope failure and that

[2:07:26] Voice 11: the tree removals would not exacerbate that as well.

[2:07:29] Voice 11: So that report also provided recommendations for the tree removal and specifically the requirement for a certified arborist to verify that tree removal and stump retention in order to minimize soil loss and as well minimizing of the disruption of vegetation with the development overall and for recommendations for stumps.

[2:07:59] Voice 11: stormwater drainage management. So all of those recommendations including the report itself

[2:08:05] Voice 11: have been incorporated as conditions in the DP and based on that the application has met all

[2:08:14] Voice 11: of the guidelines for the DPA. So as such the rationale for the recommendation on the first

[2:08:19] Voice 11: page which is to approve the DP is that the application is based on a professional geotechnical

[2:08:26] Voice 11: assessment and an addendum to that which meets all of the relative objectives and guidelines of the

[2:08:32] Voice 11: DPA and all those recommendations have been incorporated into the proposed DPA. And then

[2:08:39] Voice 11: on the last page there are alternatives of the LTC. So that's my summary.

[2:08:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you very much.

[2:08:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): I see we have the applicant here.

[2:08:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): Maple, are we able to, Bruce Dakin,

[2:08:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): should he be elevated to a panelist please?

[2:09:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): Mr. Dakin, you should be able to turn on your camera

[2:09:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): and hello.

[2:09:10] Voice 14: Hello, thanks for inviting us along.

[2:09:14] Voice 14: And thank you, Mr. Testamol for your great summary

[2:09:18] Voice 14: of that situation.

[2:09:19] Voice 14: We really don't have too much to add other than I should point out that our lot is kind of in that really sweet zone in the halfway up the west side of the island where you do not see active erosion.

[2:09:35] Voice 14: I'm sure most of you that have been to the island, the north and south end of that side, there's really visible erosion that obviously is a great concern.

[2:09:44] Voice 14: We intentionally picked this lot because it has a really nicely forested slope with stable and mature trees.

[2:09:54] Voice 14: The one tricky part we had on the lot was because it is so flat, at the original setback, we really couldn't see the sea.

[2:10:03] Voice 14: Moving us forward the 16 meters will really help with that. We'll be able to get a modest view of the ocean.

[2:10:09] Voice 14: what i would like to point out about the tree removal is it's quite a small number of trees

[2:10:16] Voice 14: we're proposing to remove and they're very small we actually did a tree survey in what's called

[2:10:22] Voice 14: area b next to the slope and and we actually found there's there's 42 trees um a third of

[2:10:30] Voice 14: them are over 50 centimeters in diameter lots of them are abutus and old growth douglas fir

[2:10:35] Voice 14: and we totally value these trees and we have no intention of disturbing them we propose only to

[2:10:42] Voice 14: remove seven small trees their size is from 23 to 33 centimeters in diameter so just marginally above

[2:10:50] Voice 14: the limits of 20 centimeters three of them are proposed to be removed for safety as they're

[2:10:58] Voice 14: within about six meters of the house one is almost dead and it's a very poor shape one is interfering

[2:11:04] Voice 14: interfering with an erbutus, just tangled up in it, and two are impeding the view.

[2:11:11] Voice 14: None of them are near the top of the bank. The geotechnical engineer has confirmed that

[2:11:16] Voice 14: cutting these trees by leaving the stumps in place will not endanger the bank.

[2:11:22] Voice 14: So we intend to follow their recommendations. And yeah, the one last thing I should add is we

[2:11:29] Voice 14: we actually did a topographic survey of the lot

[2:11:31] Voice 14: and we confirmed that the drainage

[2:11:33] Voice 14: of 95% of the uplands area drains away from the slope.

[2:11:38] Voice 14: So that's a benefit to the slope.

[2:11:42] Voice 14: And like I mentioned before,

[2:11:43] Voice 14: it's only not so great for views,

[2:11:45] Voice 14: but it's certainly,

[2:11:46] Voice 14: we recognize that a lot of the slopes on Sydney Island

[2:11:50] Voice 14: do get eroded from the top portion

[2:11:52] Voice 14: from drainage off the uplands.

[2:11:54] Voice 14: so we're going to be our natural situation on that lot protects against that so just to conclude i

[2:12:02] Voice 14: think uh we we agree with the sentiments of most sydney islanders that they love the trees

[2:12:07] Voice 14: and they also love the ocean views and we hope our proposal will satisfy both these things thank

[2:12:13] Voice 14: you thank

[2:12:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): you very much i'm going to look to the trustees who may have questions for you or staff

[2:12:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): so trustees yeah

[2:12:22] Trustee McConchie (probable): i want to thank uh it's weird right to be on north pender and make a decision

[2:12:27] Trustee McConchie (probable): on sydney island i just have to recognize that but i do recall uh pre-covid we did make a visit

[2:12:32] Trustee McConchie (probable): out to sydney island it's a really remarkable little community you guys have there uh and a

[2:12:37] Trustee McConchie (probable): very well organized strata council you guys have and it seems like environmental stewardship is a

[2:12:43] Trustee McConchie (probable): top priority for your island and uh i just want to commend the sydney sydney sydney islanders uh for

[2:12:50] Trustee McConchie (probable): uh their commitment to environmental preservation i guess the question i have is um you know the

[2:12:56] Trustee McConchie (probable): The mature trees, like, you know, what is a mature tree, Phil?

[2:12:59] Trustee McConchie (probable): Is that an old growth tree?

[2:13:01] Trustee McConchie (probable): And then I'm hearing from Bruce that it's a small tree.

[2:13:04] Trustee McConchie (probable): So what are you guys cutting down is what I'm wondering.

[2:13:06] Voice 11: So I can, in the actual guideline, or sorry, in the development permit area, there's exemptions.

[2:13:13] Voice 11: And in area B, for any tree with a trunk diameter over 20 centimeters, measured 1.5 meters above the ground.

[2:13:25] Voice 11: so essentially they're proposing to remove trees in that area that are over that size so that's why

[2:13:31] Voice 11: that's included in the development permit so so anything under that size they could take out

[2:13:37] Voice 11: without a permit in area b okay

[2:13:40] Trustee McConchie (probable): okay so so you get it's not like you're cutting down

[2:13:44] Trustee McConchie (probable): raptors nests or from what i'm understanding it's not a this is a mess

[2:13:49] Voice 11: so they the applicants

[2:13:50] Voice 11: could speak to this but in conversations with them they've also they indicated they did a tree

[2:13:55] Voice 11: survey and that they actually identified a lot of mature uh douglas fir which they wanted to keep

[2:14:02] Voice 11: and they are keeping so um uh maybe they could speak a bit to that but they're basically just

[2:14:08] Voice 11: taking the minimum out that in order to have some form of view so yeah

[2:14:16] Voice 14: that's go ahead i i confirm

[2:14:18] Voice 14: what Phil just said that the size we're taking out is only marginally above the

[2:14:22] Voice 14: limits that don't require permits with 20 centimeters these trees are like 23

[2:14:27] Voice 14: to 33 at the most so they I I don't know about how what you call it mature but

[2:14:33] Voice 14: these are actually probably these trees are probably 30 years old or something

[2:14:36] Voice 14: and and in fact some of them some of them are actually yeah as for safety

[2:14:43] Voice 14: reasons as well. I'm

[2:14:46] Trustee McConchie (probable): just wondering, I understand you guys are

[2:14:52] Trustee McConchie (probable): very concerned about, you know, wanting to see like a view, like cutting trees is

[2:14:56] Trustee McConchie (probable): important. I'm just wondering if it's possible to just cut branches instead of

[2:15:00] Trustee McConchie (probable): cutting the trees down. Is that something that you guys have looked at?

[2:15:05] Voice 14: Yes, you're

[2:15:06] Voice 14: right, it is. Actually only two of the trees amongst the seven are really, what

[2:15:12] Voice 14: would I say the primary purpose is for view?

[2:15:15] Voice 14: There's three that are within six meters of the house.

[2:15:17] Voice 14: So I would say that's mostly just so they don't,

[2:15:19] Voice 14: so the house isn't at risk being that close.

[2:15:22] Voice 14: And then one tree that's virtually dead

[2:15:25] Voice 14: and one tree that's tangled up in an arbutus,

[2:15:27] Voice 14: the benefit of that is just to improve the growing

[2:15:31] Voice 14: of the arbutus.

[2:15:33] Voice 14: The two, yeah, I'd be willing to just take the branches

[2:15:36] Voice 14: off those two that I would say are view

[2:15:39] Voice 14: uh if if that was uh made the difference for for you guys um um i well

[2:15:48] Trustee McConchie (probable): uh no it's just i i'm just

[2:15:50] Trustee McConchie (probable): asking questions right i haven't been to your property because of covid and all that stuff so

[2:15:54] Trustee McConchie (probable): this is the first time i've had a chance to really talk to you guys um yeah i mean at you know i try

[2:15:59] Trustee McConchie (probable): to encourage as a trustee folks rather than just cutting trees down because you know it's important

[2:16:05] Trustee McConchie (probable): that we obvious for obvious reasons why we we keep the trees in our dpa right if it's possible

[2:16:10] Trustee McConchie (probable): to just trim the branches of some of those trees and and and maintain the the the structure of the

[2:16:15] Trustee McConchie (probable): tree that might might be a better option is something that i'm just wondering trustee

[2:16:23] Trustee McConchie (probable): morrison i'm not sure if you have a yeah

[2:16:26] Voice 5: i'll i'll add a couple thoughts here so um first of all i

[2:16:31] Voice 5: just want to say thank you for having a permit that is not a retroactive icata tree but yeah

[2:16:37] Voice 8: I

[2:16:38] Voice 5: have to say it's refreshing so thanks for that and also for the thoughtful way that you

[2:16:49] Voice 5: thought about which trees and why because that actually helps kind of reason through it

[2:16:54] Voice 5: so generally speaking I would say not to this partner but like generally speaking I'm

[2:17:01] Voice 5: I'm super opposed to moving into BPAs generally.

[2:17:04] Voice 5: In this particular case, because the geotechnical report supports that it's okay to move into

[2:17:11] Voice 5: this from a geotechnical perspective because of the specific site conditions, I do have

[2:17:16] Voice 5: a couple questions that I'll open up for conversation, and Phil, I think you'll be able to help me

[2:17:20] Voice 5: understand this a little better.

[2:17:23] Voice 5: Like, geotechnical report, I'm not totally clear on the shifting climate-related issues

[2:17:29] Voice 5: for how that will if the report really addresses those shifting geotechnical potentials so that's

[2:17:36] Voice 5: one thing i have a question about the other um you know like storms change direction depending on

[2:17:42] Voice 5: like so it's everything in this area is a little bit at risk if you're at waterfront right now

[2:17:47] Voice 5: so that's one thing the other thing is um you know the idea so there's two issues around tree

[2:17:57] Voice 5: cutting in this type of zone that are important to consider one is just tree cutting like tree

[2:18:04] Voice 5: cutting in the in the context of carbon sequestration and um and i saw in the checklist

[2:18:10] Voice 5: that there is like the links to ghg emissions one of the challenges that we have in this particular

[2:18:17] Voice 5: permit is that no matter where you sit the house there's going to be some trees cut so it's a

[2:18:22] Voice 5: trade-off a little bit about which where you know there's going to be some trees cut

[2:18:27] Voice 5: So I don't, I think that's a little bit of a wash.

[2:18:29] Voice 5: It's more about those trees in front of you, like the view, because those are, you know,

[2:18:33] Voice 5: which trees in front of you are actually impacting the house specifically, like your hazard trees,

[2:18:38] Voice 5: I understand.

[2:18:39] Voice 5: And like dead trees, I kind of understand that too, because they're a bit of a hazard.

[2:18:44] Voice 5: I also know that on Sydney Island, there is probably one of the best areas in the whole

[2:18:49] Voice 5: of the trust about how they've reestablished natural forest systems by cutting out second

[2:18:55] Voice 5: can grow trees that are inhibiting multi-species stands so like the cutting of the tree that's

[2:19:00] Voice 5: twined up in the arbutus seems reasonable to me um the trees the the two trees i think that you

[2:19:07] Voice 5: identified that are more strictly for view i'm with ben i would rather leave those in place and

[2:19:13] Voice 5: limb them um and the that seems much more responsible from a ghd perspective for me um

[2:19:21] Voice 5: Greenhouse gas kind of carbon basis for me. So I'd like to see that change in the permit.

[2:19:27] Voice 5: Other than that, the other issue we have is really just about First Nations here.

[2:19:36] Voice 5: And I see there's a number of notes in the file related to disruption for building the house further toward the, you know, possible First Nations sort of artifacts.

[2:19:48] Voice 5: facts and and so there's a number of notes in the actual report i think it is here um just that you

[2:19:54] Voice 5: will stop and like get archaeological reports and and things like that as needed so i'm going to

[2:20:00] Voice 5: pause for a second and see if there's any responses so can you respond to the changing

[2:20:04] Voice 5: climate related issue first i'm super curious i

[2:20:07] Voice 11: can um and i just want to do one thing here and

[2:20:10] Voice 11: i just want to remind the trustees and i hope this isn't out of order but this development

[2:20:16] Voice 11: permit area is a geotechnical hazard area it's not for sensitive ecosystems and the objectives

[2:20:23] Voice 11: and the guidelines are very clear about that and what it essentially what it is it's a professional

[2:20:29] Voice 11: alliance um uh dpa where we rely on a geotechnical professional to basically certify that what's

[2:20:38] Voice 11: being proposed is not going to place an increased risk i i get all this all the the the concern

[2:20:45] Voice 11: about greenhouse gas emissions and things like that

[2:20:48] Voice 11: and the loss of trees and your overall concern about that.

[2:20:52] Voice 11: And it's not like it's not shared, but I think,

[2:20:54] Voice 11: and again, I hope I'm not out of order,

[2:20:57] Voice 11: but I think we have to be careful where we're straying here

[2:20:58] Voice 11: because this is not about tree preservation

[2:21:03] Voice 11: for tree coverage or for greenhouse gas emissions.

[2:21:06] Voice 11: It's very specific, a geotechnical hazard DPA.

[2:21:11] Voice 11: the the so

[2:21:13] Voice 5: so just before you go on on that point on the next point i do want to say that i

[2:21:17] Voice 5: acknowledge that and knew that i would instigate that kind of response so but i also want to say

[2:21:23] Voice 5: that i'm going to refuse to like manage like on a single issue only and i know that that's going

[2:21:28] Voice 5: to cause pressure so i'm just going to ask applicants to consider multiple issues fair

[2:21:34] Voice 11: enough and i just you to the specifics of the report um the report was essentially a ground

[2:21:39] Voice 11: of the overall geotechnical report which I cited and that in the report itself it indicates that

[2:21:48] Voice 11: in the estimation of the scientists or the engineers that the establishment of the crest

[2:21:58] Voice 11: of the slope and the DPA areas was overly conservative given the specifics of this

[2:22:04] Voice 11: property and that the predicted um toe slope erosion over the 20-year span that the the the

[2:22:14] Voice 11: covenant and the where the original report was made and the dpa has been in place has not happened

[2:22:20] Voice 11: to the extent that it was predicted so that's a reflection and it you know it gives consideration

[2:22:25] Voice 11: to to you know future events and things like that so just i hope that answers that question and i

[2:22:31] Voice 3: I just, if I could just add one more thing that is mentioned in the staff

[2:22:34] Voice 3: report that is that there is a separate DPA called the shoreline DPA for

[2:22:40] Voice 3: Sydney Island that does include protection for environmental considerations.

[2:22:45] Voice 3: And they're entirely outside of that development permit area.

[2:22:48] Trustee McConchie (probable): So 15

[2:22:49] Voice 3: meters upland from the natural boundary.

[2:22:52] Trustee McConchie (probable): Trustee Morrison, can I ask a quick question before I interrupt your train of

[2:22:55] Trustee McConchie (probable): thought? What's the point of the trustees right now?

[2:23:01] Trustee McConchie (probable): seriously are you asking

[2:23:02] Voice 11: trustee morrison or me i don't know like

[2:23:05] Trustee McConchie (probable): we've had this question before

[2:23:06] Trustee McConchie (probable): guys

[2:23:07] Voice 11: but it's like

[2:23:09] Trustee McConchie (probable): well the geotech says this and this and this then what's

[2:23:12] Voice 11: the point of coming

[2:23:13] Trustee McConchie (probable): before the

[2:23:13] Voice 11: trust i think at the last meeting we talked about how um the islands trust does not

[2:23:19] Voice 11: have in its uh in its legislation the ability to delegate um dps to staff where other municipalities

[2:23:28] Voice 11: municipalities do and or other local government organizations do so we're in this position where

[2:23:34] Voice 11: we don't have the authority of staff where we normally would if it's because it's just a

[2:23:38] Voice 11: technical exercise essentially and that's something

[2:23:40] Voice 11: we're going to be talking about in a minute but

[2:23:42] Voice 11: um so yeah i mean we're all in favor of that but we don't have the legislation for it

[2:23:48] Voice 3: and it isn't

[2:23:49] Voice 3: it is one of

[2:23:49] Voice 3: the asks of the of the ministry to amend that to provide that um ability to

[2:23:57] Voice 3: to delegate approval of DPs like this to staff.

[2:24:01] Voice 3: But like Phil said, it's just not in the power.

[2:24:05] Trustee McConchie (probable): It's being debated in the halls of Victoria somewhere.

[2:24:09] Trustee McConchie (probable): So then, Trustee Morrison,

[2:24:10] Trustee McConchie (probable): if we are just a technical bump along the way,

[2:24:14] Trustee McConchie (probable): I guess all we can do as trustees, like Bruce,

[2:24:16] Trustee McConchie (probable): and I'm sorry, I don't know who the other person is

[2:24:18] Trustee McConchie (probable): in the screen there,

[2:24:20] Trustee McConchie (probable): but just to appeal to their environmental senses,

[2:24:24] Trustee McConchie (probable): I guess, and goodwill to say,

[2:24:26] Trustee McConchie (probable): say hey you guys are this is a something to consider you know we we are seeing a lot of

[2:24:32] Trustee McConchie (probable): stresses on trees in the gulf islands trees are dying i mean my views opened up not because we

[2:24:37] Trustee McConchie (probable): cut down trees but because the trees all died right and there are real impacts happening as

[2:24:43] Trustee McConchie (probable): a result of the islands dealing with extensive drought so i guess i'm not sure if we can move

[2:24:48] Trustee McConchie (probable): ahead i i would be willing to support a motion to approve the uh variant or the approve the um

[2:24:53] Trustee McConchie (probable): the dp because it's i don't see any argument uh against unless trustee morrison you believe i

[2:25:01] Trustee McConchie (probable): could put the motion on the table we could discuss it's up to you yeah

[2:25:04] Voice 5: so i i think i'm okay to have

[2:25:06] Voice 5: the motion put on the table what i would ask and i think it is unfortunately because of the way the

[2:25:12] Voice 5: dps currently are written it's an ask is i would ask that you don't cut the two trees that are

[2:25:17] Voice 5: and you will limit them instead um and um because there's there's another issue that we haven't

[2:25:24] Voice 5: names here is that the more trees that you've cut of course it opens up more like sunlight on your

[2:25:29] Voice 5: house and everything too but that also increases drying in the island because so you know keeping

[2:25:36] Voice 5: cover on on the the floor of the islands helps with cooling and keeping water in the ground

[2:25:43] Voice 5: so we would really like to see that as a general practice period and just to trusty mcconaughey's

[2:25:50] Voice 5: point we are trying to work on that we are trying to think about how to get islands trust-wide kind

[2:25:56] Voice 5: of possibilities for that for trees more specifically so we are trying to work on that

[2:26:01] Voice 5: on a different front so i would go ahead and put the motion on this floor

[2:26:04] Trustee McConchie (probable): sure i'd like to

[2:26:05] Voice 5: yeah

[2:26:05] Trustee McConchie (probable): sure great thanks trustee morrison i'd like to make a motion that the north bender island

[2:26:10] Trustee McConchie (probable): local trust committee approve issuance of development permit mpdp 2020 excuse me 0.6

[2:26:15] Trustee McConchie (probable): is

[2:26:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): there a second seconded by trustee morrison any discussion on this motion

[2:26:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): brief

[2:26:21] Trustee McConchie (probable): briefly uh a motion thank you very much for taking the time to uh do not cut down stuff

[2:26:29] Trustee McConchie (probable): before it happened uh we appreciate you guys being a part of this process as you've learned

[2:26:34] Trustee McConchie (probable): there's a there's a certain amount of blips that are we're learning from as a result of

[2:26:39] Trustee McConchie (probable): this uh and we really appreciate all the work that you guys are doing on sydney island to

[2:26:44] Trustee McConchie (probable): take care of that island. Thank

[2:26:47] Voice 14: you.

[2:26:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): Any further discussion on this motion? I'll

[2:26:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): call the vote then. All those in favor? And that is carried.

[2:27:02] Trustee McConchie (probable): Thank you. All right

[2:27:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): thank you. The trustees we're gonna move on to item 12.1 which is a subdivision

[2:27:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): application for James Island on page 26 of the agenda package. That's going to

[2:27:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): to be planner testimonial again so

[2:27:22] Voice 11: page 26 to 200 and something yes

[2:27:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): my

[2:27:27] Voice 11: apologies for that that's a

[2:27:29] Voice 11: just a requirement that we have to attach all the legal documents so in full um and we've didn't

[2:27:34] Voice 11: want to but that was what happened so um anyways moving to the other associated island of repute

[2:27:41] Voice 11: James Island so this the report is for subdivision NP SUB 2008.9 and the

[2:27:53] Voice 11: report presents land title documents for approval receipt acceptance and for the

[2:27:59] Voice 11: designation of the chair to execute the documents and so these are necessary for

[2:28:04] Voice 11: the completion of the subdivision referral application which I just cited

[2:28:09] Voice 11: So another pending condition is the acceptance of cash and leave for parkland, which I'll discuss in this summary.

[2:28:17] Voice 11: So just a few specifics about this type of application and the role of the LTC.

[2:28:23] Voice 11: So the report summarizes the role of the provincial approving officer or the PAO, who is appointed under the Land Title Act with a responsibility to act independently to ensure that subdivisions within the trust area comply with provincial acts and regulations, including the LTC bylaws, and to protect the interests of the public.

[2:28:44] Voice 11: So subdivision applications are made to the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure,

[2:28:50] Voice 11: I'll just use the acronym MODI, and they refer all applications for compliance with LTC by-laws

[2:28:56] Voice 11: to us, the Islands Trust, and in turn staff undertakes a review of the layout plan

[2:29:02] Voice 11: and we provide conditions back to the Ministry that are required in order for the subdivision

[2:29:08] Voice 11: to comply with all of our by-laws, specifically the land use by-law and the OCP.

[2:29:14] Voice 11: So the LTC is not normally involved in subdivision applications, although they may become involved if

[2:29:20] Voice 11: the application is there's a required permit, i.e. a GVP or a waiver, which is not the case here,

[2:29:28] Voice 11: or where there's a requirement, which is the case here, to accept and sign land title documents

[2:29:34] Voice 11: and accept the cash and late. So the current densities for James Island and zoning were

[2:29:43] Voice 11: established with an ocp and lub amendment bylaw the bylaws that were adopted in 2008

[2:29:49] Voice 11: so that rezoning established a maximum density of 80 residential lots

[2:29:54] Voice 11: and three commercial lots in addition to agriculture which is actually a gulf

[2:30:00] Voice 11: course conservation zoning and community service zones so prior to 2008 prior to the rezoning

[2:30:08] Voice 11: the policies and regulations of rural land use bylaw 47 designated and zoned james island for

[2:30:15] Voice 11: up to 210 residential lots commercial areas agricultural area the golf course and green

[2:30:22] Voice 11: built areas so as part of that 2008 rezoning a conservation covenant for sensitive ecosystems

[2:30:31] Voice 11: was registered that takes in seven plan areas which are basically surround the island the

[2:30:40] Voice 11: sensitive ecosystems are essentially are are sort of itemized as salt marsh freshwater marsh

[2:30:46] Voice 11: forests and sand spit ecosystems and species and plant systems at risk um and again that

[2:30:52] Voice 11: there's seven areas, correction to the report, it said there is six.

[2:30:57] Voice 11: In addition, there's statutory right-of-ways for educational and monitoring

[2:31:02] Voice 11: and enforcement of access, sorry, enforcement of the conservation covenants.

[2:31:08] Voice 11: So these were registered at the same time.

[2:31:11] Voice 11: And then finally, as part of that rezoning, a subdivision control covenant was registered

[2:31:17] Voice 11: and that calls for or requires the granting of covenants for the protection of raptor nesting

[2:31:24] Voice 11: trees and wildlife trees and it also sets out the conditions for cash and loo for parkland

[2:31:31] Voice 11: at the time of subdivision and I'll speak to that in a bit so subdivision application was

[2:31:39] Voice 11: originally made to Modi in 2008 it was closed after no activity for an extended period and

[2:31:46] Voice 11: and then it was reactivated in 2019.

[2:31:50] Voice 11: So since then, staff have consulted with the applicant,

[2:31:53] Voice 11: the applicant's legal counsel,

[2:31:56] Voice 11: the applicant's consultants,

[2:32:00] Voice 11: and the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure,

[2:32:03] Voice 11: and the PAO.

[2:32:04] Voice 11: And just three areas of concern or focus

[2:32:08] Voice 11: have been the actual subdivision layout,

[2:32:11] Voice 11: and that was to reconcile zoning boundaries,

[2:32:13] Voice 11: the configuration of lots,

[2:32:15] Voice 11: and ensuring that there's conformity with the bylaws and then there was concerns that were raised

[2:32:22] Voice 11: over potable water and the provision of portable water for the lot for the residential lots and the

[2:32:29] Voice 11: commercial lots and septic and I'm noting here that there is no provision for proof of potable

[2:32:35] Voice 11: water in our subdivision regulations in the land use bylaw itself so essentially what was happening

[2:32:41] Voice 11: there was there was a request or there was an understanding in 2008 that

[2:32:48] Voice 11: basically contemplated that a community water system would be in place as

[2:32:53] Voice 11: opposed to the drilling of individual wells and having individual wells and

[2:32:57] Voice 11: septic systems and all 80 of the lots and that has actually the latter has

[2:33:03] Voice 11: actually been accepted by the Ministry of Transportation of Infrastructure

[2:33:08] Voice 11: despite our involvement in trying to petition and advocate for a community system. First Nations,

[2:33:17] Voice 11: I'll talk about that a bit later, so it's primarily in a monitoring and advocacy role now.

[2:33:27] Voice 11: So the final layout plan, it was shown in figure two, which is page 31 of the agenda,

[2:33:34] Voice 11: and that plan itself has an overlay of the zones and the zone boundaries and there's a breakdown

[2:33:40] Voice 11: of the areas which is on table one which is page 30 of the agenda so the layout itself reduces the

[2:33:48] Voice 11: number of lots to a total of 79 so there's 76 cd3 and cd3a which is just an increased setback so

[2:33:57] Voice 11: there's no essential difference between the two residential lots so the reduction is a result of

[2:34:04] Voice 11: of the fact that basically at the time of zoning,

[2:34:07] Voice 11: there was never a legal survey done of the island itself.

[2:34:15] Voice 11: And when that was undertaken and reconciled

[2:34:19] Voice 11: with our zone boundaries,

[2:34:21] Voice 11: it basically established that the CD3 zone

[2:34:25] Voice 11: was smaller than it was originally thought.

[2:34:27] Voice 11: But, and so that's been worked through with the applicants

[2:34:31] Voice 11: and has resulted in the 76 lots.

[2:34:33] Voice 11: again three commercial lots and then the remainder is in common property and that has

[2:34:39] Voice 11: agricultural two zoning where the existing golf course is and then there's separate zoning for

[2:34:44] Voice 11: the conservation covenant areas. So we confirmed on January 21st of this year that the layout plan

[2:34:53] Voice 11: conforms with all of our regulations and does not create any non-conformity with the existing

[2:34:58] Voice 11: existing buildings and structures that are in place so that last letter that we sent to Modi

[2:35:03] Voice 11: also included a list of outstanding requirements and these are reflected in the recommended rate

[2:35:10] Voice 11: solutions on page one or two of the report and I'm just going to go through each of those really

[2:35:16] Voice 11: quickly and just explain each and then what's what's we're being required by the LTC so under

[2:35:25] Voice 11: the first resolution there's two section 219 covenants which I mentioned before the first

[2:35:33] Voice 11: is for a covenant for raptor nesting protection and that was a condition of the development control

[2:35:43] Voice 11: covenant overall development control covenant and the requirement for the LTC is to accept

[2:35:48] Voice 11: the covenant and to assign the chair to sign the second is for the wildlife tree protection

[2:35:55] Voice 11: protection covenant and that again was a part of the control covenant and that protects wildlife

[2:36:02] Voice 11: trees and I just note here that as part of the original form that was attached to the control

[2:36:10] Voice 11: covenant there was a requirement for a one thousand dollar fine for removal of wildlife

[2:36:16] Voice 11: trees that's been increased and accepted by the applicants to fifteen thousand dollar fine which

[2:36:23] Voice 11: which is more reflective of other penalties under the Wildlife Act as an example for removal

[2:36:33] Voice 11: or damage to habitat. So again, the LTC role here is to accept the covenant and assign

[2:36:41] Voice 11: the chair to sign. The second resolution is for a section 219 covenant is required under

[2:36:53] Voice 11: the subdivision regulations in the land use bylaw and two of the properties specifically these are

[2:36:59] Voice 11: the residential properties 51 and 70. both are with are more than twice the size of the minimum

[2:37:05] Voice 11: lot size area in the zone which is 1.25 hectares and so that this section of subdivision uh

[2:37:13] Voice 11: stipulates that if that's the case um that there should be a covenant put in place for no further

[2:37:18] Voice 11: subdivision and to limit the density to what is essentially the one lot so essentially a dwelling

[2:37:26] Voice 11: and a cottage the second resolution as well the second covenant is for another section section 8.3

[2:37:37] Voice 11: bracket 3 of the subdivision regulations and this is for areas that are zoned cd3 but will remain

[2:37:47] Voice 11: in common property and again it's to limit um the any subdivision in that area and for any

[2:37:54] Voice 11: and to prohibit any construction of dwellings or cottages

[2:37:59] Voice 11: and for both of those same as the other two covenants the role is to accept the covenant and

[2:38:06] Voice 11: to assign a chair to sign them so moving on uh the third resolution is for two releases so the

[2:38:16] Voice 11: The first is for the release of the covenant, which dates back to 1989, and this is the

[2:38:24] Voice 11: Parkland Covenant, I believe, sorry, I wasn't present for all of Michael Sketch's, Mr. Sketch's

[2:38:31] Voice 11: submission, but this is the one he was speaking to.

[2:38:35] Voice 11: That's EC 78597, and this dates back to 1989, as I said, and it had a specific requirement

[2:38:44] Voice 11: for areas of parkland at the time of subdivision that covenant is actually addressed in the

[2:38:52] Voice 11: development control covenant which supersedes this or or or is above this and the the development

[2:38:59] Voice 11: control covenant addresses this and basically the the agreement or the contract is is that

[2:39:07] Voice 11: that the release of that, it agrees to a cash-in-lieu amount or cash-in-lieu as opposed

[2:39:16] Voice 11: to dedicating parkland and agrees to releasing or discharging this covenant at the time of

[2:39:25] Voice 11: subdivision, which is the point we're at now. The second covenant for release is the actual

[2:39:31] Voice 11: development control covenant which I've been referencing and basically the reason for that

[2:39:37] Voice 11: release is that the acceptance of the new covenants and cash and lieu makes that null and

[2:39:44] Voice 11: void so resolution four is for partial releases and these partial releases basically are for the

[2:39:53] Voice 11: conservation covenants or covenant that's in place and the standard sorry statutory right-of-ways

[2:39:58] Voice 11: which are related to those and all that does is it removes it from the new all of the new

[2:40:05] Voice 11: or the the 76 residential properties and um one of the commercial properties and maintains it on

[2:40:14] Voice 11: two of the commercial properties which are waterfront so the reason they're being maintained

[2:40:18] Voice 11: are for access essentially they're the entry point onto the island and um um i think that was it

[2:40:28] Voice 11: about that so um with that uh so for these releases basically we need approval and to have

[2:40:36] Voice 11: the chair assigned uh to release to sign those releases and then lastly uh in terms of the land

[2:40:44] Voice 11: titles documents or actually sorry the last one is not a land title document it's just an agreement

[2:40:48] Voice 11: um it's called an assignment and assumption agreement and that basically transfers the

[2:40:54] Voice 11: the obligations of the conservation covenant

[2:40:57] Voice 11: and statutory right away

[2:40:58] Voice 11: from the current owner's GIA properties

[2:41:02] Voice 11: to the new strata corporation upon registration of the plan.

[2:41:07] Voice 11: So as I mentioned earlier,

[2:41:09] Voice 11: cash in lieu is a requirement that has been agreed to.

[2:41:16] Voice 11: I'm just gonna speak to that quickly

[2:41:17] Voice 11: and update you where we're at with that.

[2:41:20] Voice 11: So under the Local Government Act,

[2:41:21] Voice 11: the owner does have the option to provide either parkland,

[2:41:24] Voice 11: acceptable to the local government or pay cash in lieu amount which is equivalent to five percent

[2:41:29] Voice 11: of the land being agreed to by an independent assessment so that the option is actually

[2:41:38] Voice 11: belongs to the applicant it's not to the local the local government or to the in this case the

[2:41:44] Voice 11: local trust committee so with parkland dedication or cash in lieu there's a protocol agreement

[2:41:50] Voice 11: agreement between the CRD and the Islands Trust where ultimately monies should be allocated to a

[2:41:56] Voice 11: parkland acquisition fund which is in the Southern Gulf Islands and that's administered by the CRD

[2:42:01] Voice 11: but the LTC's role is to accept that amount by resolution so the CRD reviews the assessment

[2:42:10] Voice 11: amount and provides a response to the Islands Trust regarding their opinion of the appraisal

[2:42:15] Voice 11: and the CRDs and confirms the CRDs board board's acceptance of the proposed allocation

[2:42:21] Voice 11: of the cash in lieu amount and sorry and the cash in lieu amount so um as I said within the

[2:42:31] Voice 11: subdivision control covenant this is the cash in lieu amount is is addressed and what that does

[2:42:38] Voice 11: is it agrees to cash in lieu and it has a bottom amount or a base amount basically there's it

[2:42:45] Voice 11: It stipulates that they're obliged to pay a minimum of $1.5 million,

[2:42:51] Voice 11: and that would be based on a $30 million assessment or appraisal of the island.

[2:42:57] Voice 11: So now the owners, to this point, have provided two appraisals, most recently on February 16th,

[2:43:07] Voice 11: and that appraisal is currently being reviewed by CRD staff

[2:43:12] Voice 11: staff and is a schedule to be presented to the CRD board on March the 10th so that is

[2:43:17] Voice 11: the reason that this has not been included so that will have to be on a future agenda

[2:43:25] Voice 11: for the LTC to accept so this recommendation 6 on page 2 in part indicates that once CRD

[2:43:38] Voice 11: staff have provided confirmation of the resolution by the board that we would return to staff to

[2:43:45] Voice 11: accept the amount and that signature by the chair of all of the required legal documents should be

[2:43:51] Voice 11: well held until that has actually been accepted and confirmed both by the CRD board and by the

[2:43:57] Voice 11: local trust committee. Just a quick note on First Nations and my understanding is that each of the

[2:44:04] Voice 11: the trustees and the chair have all had a discussion with Lisa Wilcox, who is our senior

[2:44:09] Voice 11: intergovernmental policy analyst on the role of the Allianz Trust with regards to First Nations

[2:44:15] Voice 11: and our role with a specific application, as well as the role of Ministry of Transportation

[2:44:23] Voice 11: and Infrastructure as the agent of the Crown. But in short, what has happened through the

[2:44:30] Voice 11: requirements from modi is that an archaeological impact assessment was conducted and that um the

[2:44:37] Voice 11: lto sorry land title registration agenda from the applicant indicates that um a section 219 covenant

[2:44:45] Voice 11: with four plan areas for protection of archaeological resources will be registered

[2:44:51] Voice 11: at the time of subdivision and then um significantly the ministry or modi has has an

[2:44:59] Voice 11: obligation to undertake consultation and accommodation with the affected First Nations.

[2:45:04] Voice 11: So in this case they have been the Say Out First Nation has been identified as the sole affected

[2:45:12] Voice 11: nation and they have been involved in the process of consultation and attempted or

[2:45:20] Voice 11: trying to achieve accommodation with the Say Out over approximately the last year. So

[2:45:29] Voice 11: That was initiated in 2019, and at this point, we know that the consultation has not been concluded.

[2:45:37] Voice 11: So again, referencing Recommendation 6 on page 2, we indicate that in our role as advocacy and

[2:45:51] Voice 11: in respect to that consultation that the LTC direct the chair to defer signing the legal documents

[2:45:59] Voice 11: pending written confirmation from the approving officer that that consultation has been completed.

[2:46:06] Voice 11: it so finally I'll just speak to the rationale for the recommendation so the acceptance of the

[2:46:15] Voice 11: covenants and the other legal title documents and the assignment of the chair pending the completion

[2:46:21] Voice 11: again of the consultation with the First Nations as well as acceptance of cash and lieu will provide

[2:46:29] Voice 11: the applicant with certainty with regards to the timing for our the Islands Trust conditions to be

[2:46:34] Voice 11: completed and this will allow for staff to provide written confirmation from the Islands Trust that

[2:46:42] Voice 11: the proposed subdivision meets the above conditions and conforms to all North Pender Island

[2:46:51] Voice 11: Local Trust Committee bylaws once the two conditions are complete. So there are three

[2:46:57] Voice 11: alternatives that have been at the end of the document and I apologize for the long summary but

[2:47:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): Don't apologize for a long summary. This is a long report.

[2:47:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): A lot of information.

[2:47:14] Voice 11: The

[2:47:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): applicant is here as well, Brent Rasinski.

[2:47:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): If Maple, we can have him moved over to the panel.

[2:47:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): You can turn your camera on.

[2:47:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): Hello, Brent, can we hear you?

[2:47:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): Good

[2:47:32] Voice 15: morning. Am I coming in?

[2:47:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): We can hear you.

[2:47:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): Do you have anything you wish to add or any comments about the report or

[2:47:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): things that you would like to add?

[2:47:40] Voice 15: I do. Absolutely.

[2:47:41] Voice 15: will first off i just want to thank uh you chair patrick and trustee morrison and trustee mcconkey

[2:47:45] Voice 15: for uh taking the time to consider all of these items on your agenda this morning uh planner

[2:47:51] Voice 15: testimony i think you gave an excellent overview there uh the staff report that you assembled was

[2:47:56] Voice 15: substantial to say the least so thank you very much for for putting that together and i also

[2:48:02] Voice 15: want to say thank you to the entire islands trust team i know this has taken up a significant amount

[2:48:06] Voice 15: of your time over the past number of years and we really appreciate your insight and your guidance

[2:48:11] Voice 15: and your help in assisting us in moving this process forward so thank you very much it means

[2:48:17] Voice 15: a great deal to us as it relates to the specific items on on the agenda if you have any questions

[2:48:27] Voice 15: that pertain to the specific provisions of the covenants the releases the statutory rights of way

[2:48:33] Voice 15: the Assignment and Assumption Agreement. I would defer to Greg Atkins, who is present today and

[2:48:39] Voice 15: available to speak on our behalf. I know that Greg worked very closely with Islands Trust staff and

[2:48:45] Voice 15: Islands Trust legal counsel to finalize these documents, so I think that he can provide some

[2:48:49] Voice 15: fantastic insight in that regard. So I don't know if Greg would have anything to add as a

[2:48:55] Voice 15: to add as a follow-up to planner testimonials overview there. I think kind of taking a little

[2:49:05] Voice 15: bit of a step back here, I would like to comment briefly. I won't take up too much of your time,

[2:49:10] Voice 15: but I do want to comment briefly on sort of the thought process and the ethos that's

[2:49:14] Voice 15: sort of driving this development. And in particular, to explain my attachment to the

[2:49:20] Voice 15: development. So my family owned the property for 26 years. So I've been fortunate enough to have

[2:49:25] Voice 15: been visiting there and spending extended periods of time there ever since I was a little kid.

[2:49:30] Voice 15: And I fell in love with the island since the first time that I set foot on it. And over the

[2:49:35] Voice 15: past number of decades, that love, it never wavered. It's only grown. And it's because of

[2:49:41] Voice 15: that very strong affinity for the island that my family asked me to help oversee and guide this

[2:49:47] Voice 15: this process on their behalf.

[2:49:50] Voice 15: And really the objective here is to work with the land,

[2:49:54] Voice 15: not against it.

[2:49:55] Voice 15: So environmental stewardship,

[2:49:57] Voice 15: which Trustee McConkie had mentioned earlier

[2:49:59] Voice 15: is our top priority.

[2:50:02] Voice 15: I think my family has been incredible stewards

[2:50:04] Voice 15: from the island over the past number of decades

[2:50:06] Voice 15: and our efforts to that end certainly will not cease.

[2:50:10] Voice 15: There were some significant remediation efforts

[2:50:13] Voice 15: that we undertook once we purchased the island.

[2:50:16] Voice 15: and just to restore the island to its natural beauty and that will remain our focus in

[2:50:23] Voice 15: perpetuity here as we advance this project. So thank you very much for your time. I look forward

[2:50:28] Voice 15: to continuing to work with all of you on this project and I don't know if we could introduce

[2:50:33] Voice 15: Greg as a panelist here as well but I think that would be really helpful in responding to any

[2:50:39] Voice 15: potential questions that you might have as they relate to the specific provisions of the items

[2:50:43] Voice 15: items that are in front of you today.

[2:50:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): Trustees, I don't see, I think that Maple,

[2:50:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): who was that individual that's in the-

[2:50:51] Voice 16: It's Greg here, I've learned that my camera is not working,

[2:50:55] Voice 16: but I am on the line, I apologize for that.

[2:50:57] Voice 16: Chair Patrick and to the trustees,

[2:50:59] Voice 16: thanks so much for having us here,

[2:51:01] Voice 16: available to answer questions along with Brett

[2:51:04] Voice 16: and address any concerns you may have.

[2:51:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right, thank you very much.

[2:51:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): So I'm going to open the floor to the trustees

[2:51:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): who may have questions for you or the planner or floors open who would like to go first

[2:51:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): uh trustee mcconkie wow

[2:51:20] Trustee McConchie (probable): this is a this is a i i spent a lot of time lab this week trying

[2:51:24] Trustee McConchie (probable): researching james island or i don't know how to pronounce this in chauvin word for it uh

[2:51:31] Trustee McConchie (probable): i'm not even going to attempt it um it's interesting to see you know the douglas

[2:51:36] Trustee McConchie (probable): treaty of 1852 really clearly states that um this was uh well used and it was uh meant to be

[2:51:42] Trustee McConchie (probable): for the the wissanic people i believe the hereditary chief the last hereditary chief was

[2:51:49] Trustee McConchie (probable): born there um so it has it has an interesting history it sounds to me like it was like used

[2:51:55] Trustee McConchie (probable): as a game farm for for you know rich british people and then what happened was it was turned

[2:52:01] Trustee McConchie (probable): into it had quite the community with the munitions and i can't believe the pollution that took

[2:52:05] Trustee McConchie (probable): place there on the island and the efforts that you guys uh have made to clean up and restore the

[2:52:11] Trustee McConchie (probable): island that's quite commendable um and your environmental stewardship is not at all in

[2:52:17] Trustee McConchie (probable): question here um from my perspective um what i was just wondering is uh it seems to me and reading

[2:52:24] Trustee McConchie (probable): the history of the island's trust is there was quite a heated dialogue that took place regarding

[2:52:29] Trustee McConchie (probable): the bylaws in 2006 and 2008 and maybe Phil can speak to this but there was a division on the

[2:52:36] Trustee McConchie (probable): executive committee during this time I'm wondering if you can elaborate what that discussion and

[2:52:43] Trustee McConchie (probable): debate was about maybe Robert you can go back in the memory banks I

[2:52:46] Voice 3: can try yeah I

[2:52:48] Trustee McConchie (probable): was going to

[2:52:48] Trustee McConchie (probable): say Robert was involved so I

[2:52:50] Voice 3: was involved for

[2:52:51] Voice 11: the first part

[2:52:51] Voice 3: of it anyway so the two local trustees

[2:52:54] Voice 3: Steve's of the day, Gary Steve's and Ken Hancock, were ultimately supportive of an approach that

[2:53:01] Voice 3: had conservation covenants to protect the areas that Phil's identified.

[2:53:08] Voice 3: And the chair at the time of the LTC was supportive of retaining the parkland dedication

[2:53:15] Voice 3: approach that had been in the previous iteration of the bylaws dating from 1989.

[2:53:22] Voice 3: and so ultimately at the local trust committee level the two local trustees approach prevailed

[2:53:28] Voice 3: as part of that process there was the discussion of cash in lieu came up from the CRD the CRD

[2:53:37] Voice 3: indicated that they would like parkland or cash in lieu the applicants indicated the cash in lieu

[2:53:45] Voice 3: was the preference trustees ultimately agreed to that and that's where you see that minimum

[2:53:51] Voice 3: amount in the covenant of 1.5 million so that they would ensure that you know there would at

[2:53:56] Voice 3: least be a minimum base um there was some discussion about where that cash in lieu would

[2:54:03] Voice 3: ultimately go there was a desire on the part of the electoral area director at the time and i

[2:54:07] Voice 3: think the two local trustees as well to see it spent specifically on north bender um um and uh

[2:54:16] Voice 3: when it got to the executive committee so the chair of the local trust committee at the time

[2:54:20] Voice 3: voted against the bylaw amendment, went to the executive committee, the executive committee was

[2:54:25] Voice 3: also divided two and two and so every motion that the executive committee failed and you may or may

[2:54:34] Voice 3: not be aware that a bylaw that's sent to executive committee, the executive committee has 30 days

[2:54:39] Voice 3: to respond to the local trust committee's submission of the bylaw and because of the

[2:54:46] Voice 3: division at the executive committee level that 30 days just basically collapsed and the bylaw was

[2:54:51] Voice 3: deemed to be approved at the executive committee level and that was I think 2008 when the bylaws

[2:54:57] Voice 3: came back and were adopted by the local trust committee of the day and there was an initial

[2:55:04] Voice 3: as Phil mentioned there was an initial subdivision application that lapsed after a couple of years

[2:55:08] Voice 3: or it became inactive.

[2:55:11] Trustee McConchie (probable): Great thanks for that historical reference there Robert I appreciate

[2:55:15] Trustee McConchie (probable): that um i guess then the issue for me comes down to after reading over the history with this

[2:55:20] Trustee McConchie (probable): particular application are two things is the number one being consultation with first nations

[2:55:25] Trustee McConchie (probable): and the wasanic leadership council and ensuring that that takes place and the second debate

[2:55:30] Trustee McConchie (probable): is this cash in lieu uh versus parkland discussion i i i just found it really it's just like

[2:55:38] Trustee McConchie (probable): like just speaking kind of you know like you talk in a pub how do you determine the price of a piece

[2:55:46] Trustee McConchie (probable): of land you know it's like two million dollars is a proposed thing it's like they just this number

[2:55:51] Trustee McConchie (probable): is just poof it's two million dollars right that we're gonna give and then and then just a story

[2:55:55] Trustee McConchie (probable): just like you know i i'm being simplistic just for discussion's sake um so now the thing that

[2:56:03] Trustee McConchie (probable): i'm wondering is like where does that so that money comes in and where does the money go

[2:56:07] Trustee McConchie (probable): to a bank account in the crd why is the

[2:56:10] Trustee McConchie (probable): crd taking the money because

[2:56:12] Voice 11: uh basically so the the crd has

[2:56:16] Voice 11: a park function the islands trust doesn't have a park function we can't accept that money we have

[2:56:21] Voice 11: nowhere to put it so to speak so sorry

[2:56:23] Voice 11: the conservancy no the the crd so the capital

[2:56:30] Voice 11: regional district has a park function so it's the local government act stipulates that it

[2:56:35] Voice 11: that it should go to a parkland um acquisition fund so essentially um and it's the because of

[2:56:43] Voice 11: the crd's role i mean that's what is happening right now the crd staff is making recommendations

[2:56:49] Voice 11: to the crd board for how to allocate that money and in terms of how they establish the amount

[2:56:55] Voice 11: It's based on professional appraisals of the value of the property, including the subdivision.

[2:57:06] Voice 11: So that's why we've had two.

[2:57:09] Voice 11: What's happened is there was an initial one that was made or submitted in November for a certain amount, which valued the island at a certain amount.

[2:57:20] Voice 11: And then in January, the assessments came out, which indicated that the island had a much higher assessed value than what was indicated on the appraisal.

[2:57:31] Voice 11: So CRD staff requested a second appraisal, which is what we're working or they are working on right now.

[2:57:39] Voice 3: So, yeah, just to go back to Trustee McConkie's question or point, I guess, is this is not, you know, this is not a, this is a well-trodden path, shall we say.

[2:57:48] Voice 3: say cash in lieu versus parkland dedication it's well established in legislation in the local

[2:57:53] Voice 3: government act how it's determined and that the process for determining it is by either by a

[2:58:02] Voice 3: mutual agreement or by appraisal and then if the first appraisal isn't accepted there's a

[2:58:08] Voice 3: provision to get a second appraisal and the legislation also establishes that it goes to

[2:58:14] Voice 3: of the regional district for

[2:58:17] Trustee McConchie (probable): park functions so great thanks for explaining that so then wondering

[2:58:22] Trustee McConchie (probable): um well i mean i still wonder uh like some appraisals i'm just like i don't understand

[2:58:26] Trustee McConchie (probable): i mean i wonder what the market value of james island is it certainly is not what i read in the

[2:58:32] Trustee McConchie (probable): report it's got to be worth way more um but anyways i don't want to speculate on that my

[2:58:38] Trustee McConchie (probable): comment is i guess just what are we doing like we're we're we're giving up the opportunity for

[2:58:43] Trustee McConchie (probable): a public park on this island. Now, I understand that the applicants own the island and that it's

[2:58:49] Trustee McConchie (probable): considered a private island right now, but there is an opportunity for the public to potentially

[2:58:55] Trustee McConchie (probable): utilize this land. Now, I'm aware that part of the deal is that you actually get more protected land

[2:59:02] Trustee McConchie (probable): than you do if you get the cash, you get more protected land, if I'm understanding correctly.

[2:59:10] Trustee McConchie (probable): correctly if you you get the parkland it's a smaller portion of land and you don't get the

[2:59:15] Trustee McConchie (probable): cash my question is is it kind of came down to this when i was thinking about this at two in the

[2:59:19] Trustee McConchie (probable): morning are we is this serving the trust mandate and are we are we going down a kind of a a point

[2:59:28] Trustee McConchie (probable): of no return if we're giving up the public access to this um island through not establishing uh

[2:59:35] Trustee McConchie (probable): parkland i'm just wondering what my fellow trustees uh think about that discussion point

[2:59:41] Voice 5: I'm happy to weigh in on that. Laura, do you want to weigh in first?

[2:59:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): I'll let you go there, Trustee Morrison.

[2:59:47] Voice 5: Sure. So the interesting dilemma that we're in right now, and speak to something

[2:59:54] Voice 5: Robert just said, so the idea of a well-trodden path about the way that we have engaged

[3:00:00] Voice 5: historically in this type of work is just not going to be business as usual going forward.

[3:00:06] Voice 5: DRIP is now in place in the province. We have to actually enforce UNDRIP in a different and

[3:00:12] Voice 5: a meaningful way. We have to think about the way that trust preservation may not mean public access,

[3:00:20] Voice 5: you know. So, what does that mean? So, it's a complicated set of things that we're dealing with.

[3:00:28] Voice 5: you know decisions that are preserving and protecting lands and whole ecosystems

[3:00:35] Voice 5: in ways that are really meaningful I think are valuable as long as they're not you know stepping

[3:00:43] Voice 5: all over indigenous rights and so I think you know you're in conversation with the

[3:00:49] Voice 5: first nation with Islamic nations and like that is critically part of this whole

[3:00:56] Voice 5: of questions and my understanding from the work here is that Modi is the lead for the province

[3:01:03] Voice 5: in that kind of conversation um Modi again for those listening being a ministry of transportation

[3:01:08] Voice 5: and infrastructure and so that seems okay to me um with the caveat I think that I have some

[3:01:18] Voice 5: questions later on about are we actually giving up our elected official rights to MOTI in a

[3:01:24] Voice 5: particular way for final approval on that so I have to think about some of the later pieces here

[3:01:29] Voice 5: yeah so I mean I'm not as concerned then about in terms of preservation I think like park access

[3:01:38] Voice 5: to the public generally I'm not as concerned about what I'm concerned about is like preservation of

[3:01:45] Voice 5: of lands and ecosystems and First Nations access.

[3:01:48] Voice 5: So that's more of my concern.

[3:01:51] Voice 5: So I'm gonna pause there for a second.

[3:01:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yeah, I mean, these are complicated issues

[3:01:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): as Deb just put where we are at a point in time

[3:02:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): and where we are going.

[3:02:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I think it's always frustrating

[3:02:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): when we can see kind of where we're going

[3:02:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): and how our rules sometimes are way lagging

[3:02:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): of where we want to be.

[3:02:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): so um this is complicated for those reasons but uh trustee mcconkie did you have anything else

[3:02:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): you wanted

[3:02:24] Trustee McConchie (probable): i was just wondering if you had an opinion chair patrick but um so i mean my opinion

[3:02:28] Trustee McConchie (probable): is um that okay well i guess i have a question the question is so we we take the cash or the

[3:02:36] Trustee McConchie (probable): crd takes the cash and puts it into the giant bureaucracy known as the crd uh dedicated for

[3:02:41] Trustee McConchie (probable): parkland or whatever happens and then what i'm what my question is is um if we lose the public

[3:02:46] Trustee McConchie (probable): access to the island you know we are relying on the goodwill of the islanders which i know you

[3:02:53] Trustee McConchie (probable): guys i'm not questioning the character of the applicants or anything like that but if we have

[3:02:58] Trustee McConchie (probable): a park there on the island right we certainly have an opportunity for public access that is

[3:03:04] Trustee McConchie (probable): for sure that is like a guarantee because the because the park means people go there which

[3:03:10] Trustee McConchie (probable): which means, yeah, you can bring your First Nations group,

[3:03:12] Trustee McConchie (probable): which means you can bring your school group.

[3:03:14] Trustee McConchie (probable): You can learn about, if you look at this,

[3:03:16] Trustee McConchie (probable): it's got amazing rare ecosystems on this island

[3:03:18] Trustee McConchie (probable): that could tremendously benefit

[3:03:21] Trustee McConchie (probable): all of the island communities here.

[3:03:23] Trustee McConchie (probable): If they're able to go and visit, check it out.

[3:03:25] Trustee McConchie (probable): I mean, it's the only island, I believe,

[3:03:27] Trustee McConchie (probable): that's surrounded by sand.

[3:03:29] Trustee McConchie (probable): It's just this jewel of a geological treasure.

[3:03:32] Trustee McConchie (probable): I guess I'm really debating privatization

[3:03:35] Trustee McConchie (probable): versus public access.

[3:03:37] Trustee McConchie (probable): and you want yeah i'm sure robert's gonna let me have what robert well

[3:03:42] Voice 3: the the ltc back in the

[3:03:44] Voice 3: mid-2000s had had a very similar debate right

[3:03:46] Trustee McConchie (probable): that's what and

[3:03:47] Voice 3: one of the outcomes of that

[3:03:50] Voice 3: debate was the um educational and research access statutory right of way that allows access to the

[3:03:57] Voice 3: island for uh first of all research bona fide research and then second of all for educational

[3:04:03] Voice 3: access. So school groups, including First Nations school groups, through the mechanism of statutory

[3:04:10] Voice 3: right-of-way. So NCC, the Nature Conservancy of Canada, in their role as managing the covenant

[3:04:17] Voice 3: areas, also manages the research access. And we have agreed with NCC that Islands Trust would

[3:04:27] Voice 3: would oversee or manage the educational access if requests if and when requests are received

[3:04:34] Voice 3: and we actually on the web page do have a simple request form for people to submit requests for

[3:04:40] Voice 3: access so

[3:04:41] Trustee McConchie (probable): you couldn't just call your get your student group together and take them across you'd

[3:04:46] Trustee McConchie (probable): have to go through a process of applying to get access to the island correct

[3:04:50] Voice 3: yeah it's there's a

[3:04:51] Voice 3: a there's a fairly simple process whereas

[3:04:54] Trustee McConchie (probable): i can get in my boat and drive to sydney spit right now

[3:04:58] Trustee McConchie (probable): and it's awesome and i don't have to apply to a bureaucracy for permission to go to the island

[3:05:03] Trustee McConchie (probable): correct correct right

[3:05:05] Trustee McConchie (probable): okay i mean you know like that's how i kind of feel trustee morrison chair

[3:05:09] Trustee McConchie (probable): patrick where this issue kind of comes down to like i totally understand and respect the previous

[3:05:14] Trustee McConchie (probable): work of the previous trustees i i'm concerned about this privatization issue of the island

[3:05:20] Trustee McConchie (probable): especially if we have an opportunity to continue to make it a full public access at any point at

[3:05:26] Trustee McConchie (probable): any time like they do we do with our park systems our park systems in the gulf islands are some of

[3:05:32] Trustee McConchie (probable): the best parks in in the country um are we uh giving up that that that right uh through this

[3:05:40] Trustee McConchie (probable): decision so i'm just wondering can

[3:05:42] Voice 11: i just and robert i hope i

[3:05:44] Voice 11: don't make a mistake here but

[3:05:46] Voice 11: it. So there's two things about this. So first of all, as I indicated in my summary, so there's

[3:05:52] Voice 11: development control covenant, which basically agrees to cash and lose. So you guys are as a

[3:05:57] Voice 11: LTC of the day and a signature on that covenant are contractually obliged to honor that covenant.

[3:06:06] Voice 11: Secondly, without that covenant, it's actually not the LTC's decision, whether or not it's cash

[3:06:12] Voice 11: fashion loo or a park it's up to the applicant themselves and again this is where i look to

[3:06:18] Voice 11: robert and um so it's not i i get where you're going and i get the i understand that but you're

[3:06:26] Voice 11: kind of bound by two you're hemmed in by two things here um and you know with this is just

[3:06:32] Voice 11: pure objective you know this is your legal the situation we're in legally and you know i mean

[3:06:39] Voice 11: the only discretion I would say you have is on the amount that's agreed upon. And again,

[3:06:49] Voice 11: Robert's spoken to the fact that the Local Government Act has a mechanism, but we've

[3:06:53] Voice 11: already had two appraisals. So I mean, theoretically, you could say, I don't like it,

[3:06:57] Voice 11: and we want another appraisal. But essentially, you're just working towards an amount. And again,

[3:07:05] Voice 11: Again, Robert can verify what I just said, but I just want to make that clear here.

[3:07:09] Voice 11: Yeah,

[3:07:10] Voice 3: I just reiterate that. It's the decision of the sub-divider of cash-in-lieu versus parkland, and the LTC back in 2008, 2005 to 2008, agreed with that approach and put in the covenant that base of cash-in-lieu amount.

[3:07:29] Voice 3: out i

[3:07:34] Voice 5: can add a couple things on there um one thing about um dollars going to the crd um and

[3:07:47] Voice 5: maybe this is i think this is a put a pin in it kind of question but it does seem to me to be

[3:07:52] Voice 5: extremely problematic in the um southern gulf islands and trust area generally um for the local

[3:08:00] Voice 5: government act to specify this in this way because we have a mechanism for the conservancy and for

[3:08:07] Voice 5: management for conservancy and why why park in the in this area wouldn't be more appropriate to

[3:08:15] Voice 5: be inside the conservancy i'm not always understanding so that's a longer conversation

[3:08:20] Voice 5: that's not in this specific decision but i do think it's a little bit problematic um can i ask

[3:08:26] Voice 5: a clarifying question about the education covenant um when i hear you talk i hear education that is

[3:08:33] Voice 5: youth i have to name that as a learning scientist that's not true so education is for community

[3:08:41] Voice 5: it's for a lot of different reasons is the education covenant limited to youth sorry to

[3:08:48] Voice 11: youth or use use did you say use use or youth

[3:08:54] Voice 5: youth

[3:08:56] Voice 8: oh

[3:08:58] Voice 3: uh no i don't think it is no okay so

[3:09:03] Voice 5: that helps because from the perspective of what trustee mcconaughey's talking about

[3:09:07] Voice 5: like think of the crotchet kind of courses that we ran here on tender island like that is an

[3:09:13] Voice 5: educational effort it's a community educational effort it could totally apply for those types of

[3:09:17] Voice 5: efforts to be part of this um so it would be in balance on the educational covenants so i just

[3:09:25] Voice 5: want to name that there is ways to be able to and and the applicants should be clear on this that

[3:09:31] Voice 5: like my understanding of education and research access means that community organized community

[3:09:36] Voice 5: efforts for education hopefully with first nations involved are are a real thing that could be done

[3:09:43] Voice 5: in this space and

[3:09:46] Voice 11: just I don't want I just want to add that there are as I said there's a

[3:09:52] Voice 11: conservation area is protected under covenant and that represents 57.5 hectares out of 321.3 hectares

[3:10:01] Voice 11: so those areas are the areas that are accessed through those statutory right-of-ways for

[3:10:05] Voice 11: educational and research so that Robert spoke to and I'm just wanting to point out that those areas

[3:10:13] Voice 11: will be protected so they have been up to now and will continue to be so so one

[3:10:19] Voice 5: one last point

[3:10:20] Voice 5: because i think ben had one last point that i didn't get back to on um and that was um about

[3:10:25] Voice 5: the idea of public access versus privatization so so i think the mechanisms of the covenant

[3:10:34] Voice 5: provide a type of public access that is controlled which is different than parks generally um and

[3:10:43] Voice 5: And what we see of parks generally is not unprecedented in the region because we have a number of different spaces where there may be like research only access for islands that are vulnerable islands ecologically that you need a permit to get on.

[3:10:59] Voice 5: And I'm trying to remember if that actually occurs in the southern Gulf Islands here.

[3:11:03] Voice 5: I feel like it does on some of the bird rock kind of areas, but you would know better than me, Robert, probably.

[3:11:08] Voice 5: but so like the idea of having sort of research access only or educational access is something

[3:11:16] Voice 5: that can be done for areas that are more environmentally fragile that is not totally

[3:11:22] Voice 5: the case in this situation because it's not just that this is environmentally fragile it's that

[3:11:27] Voice 5: there's a desire because this is a private space to have it maintained more private i feel

[3:11:33] Voice 5: uncomfortable about that i also feel bound in a little bit by the conversations that have been

[3:11:37] Voice 5: going on by where this is right now in the process um so the fact that there are covenants for access

[3:11:45] Voice 5: for education for supervision and monitoring for um research i feel okay about i

[3:11:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): know for for me

[3:11:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): it's like we've got this parallel it's we we don't speak on behalf of the first nations and they have

[3:12:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): their process that they're going through in the consultation and what outcomes so even whatever

[3:12:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): whatever decisions we make, that is not hemming in that conversation. We're not limiting

[3:12:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): or precluding what's going to happen. So I think that's an important element to me. I really see

[3:12:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): that we can withhold our signature until that gets concluded. Or the other option was we don't

[3:12:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): sign them and we leave the applicant up to see if they're proceeding. That's one of the alternatives

[3:12:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): that are there.

[3:12:45] Voice 11: Can I just add one thing? I was just going to say

[3:12:49] Voice 11: that with regards to cash and

[3:12:51] Voice 11: and how that money will be allocated we will be able to report back what the CRD because they've

[3:13:00] Voice 11: had to work this out given the fact that there is no parks function on James Island itself so

[3:13:06] Voice 11: they will be we will be able to report a on the accepted amount and b on how CRD proposes to

[3:13:14] Voice 11: to allocate those funds um

[3:13:19] Trustee McConchie (probable): yeah i mean i this is i i gotta admit like i'm not the smartest person

[3:13:25] Trustee McConchie (probable): and this is too much for me um so and what i mean by that is like i'm just more interested in the

[3:13:31] Trustee McConchie (probable): broad concepts like the broad concept being i can't think of a subdivision in this in the in

[3:13:36] Trustee McConchie (probable): the mass the islands trust area where it's this many properties i think it's 80 um and there's

[3:13:43] Trustee McConchie (probable): no park or public access like i don't know of any island like that um wouldn't sydney island

[3:13:50] Trustee McConchie (probable): sydney island has a national park yeah but it's the tip of it yeah

[3:13:54] Voice 11: it's not part

[3:13:55] Trustee McConchie (probable): of the subdivision

[3:13:56] Trustee McConchie (probable): so you

[3:13:56] Trustee McConchie (probable): can you no no but you can go to the island is what i'm saying part of the island yeah exactly

[3:14:03] Trustee McConchie (probable): and experience the island that's what i'm saying

[3:14:05] Voice 11: i don't i robert that wasn't part of this actual

[3:14:08] Voice 11: subdivision of the of sydney island was it or no it's always in

[3:14:12] Trustee McConchie (probable): the park i'm not talking about

[3:14:13] Trustee McConchie (probable): predates i'm not

[3:14:14] Voice 11: talking about sydney

[3:14:15] Trustee McConchie (probable): island guys i don't

[3:14:16] Voice 5: know what you're talking about

[3:14:16] Voice 5: sorry go

[3:14:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): ahead trustee morrison

[3:14:19] Voice 5: i'm just gonna say

[3:14:20] Voice 5: that nobody gets interrupted so if if trustee

[3:14:23] Voice 5: mcconaughey can just continue with his thought before he gets interrupted okay yeah it's all

[3:14:28] Trustee McConchie (probable): good i i appreciate the effort in this complex issue um i guess what i'm wondering is like are

[3:14:35] Trustee McConchie (probable): are we, you know, this is sort of like a gated island in a way. Like, it's like a gated community.

[3:14:43] Trustee McConchie (probable): And that just concerns me. But I'm feeling as though the way that the staff report is written,

[3:14:51] Trustee McConchie (probable): there's no choice. Like, I mean, what recommend, what is this? Like the alternatives,

[3:14:55] Trustee McConchie (probable): the only alternatives I have, request further information. Okay, well, I mean, what would I be

[3:15:01] Trustee McConchie (probable): interested? I'd be interested to know how you're consulting with First Nations. I have no idea,

[3:15:04] Trustee McConchie (probable): right there's no one here from the say out here on this call at all um i don't know what's going

[3:15:10] Trustee McConchie (probable): on there um i don't even know what the reasoning would be behind not having a parkland on the

[3:15:17] Trustee McConchie (probable): island other than it probably i don't know increases the value of the subdivision perhaps

[3:15:23] Trustee McConchie (probable): um the second alternative is to appoint the chair to sign all legal documents

[3:15:28] Trustee McConchie (probable): um i'm not sure if i'm comfortable just giving the power of the chair to do that

[3:15:32] Trustee McConchie (probable): uh and no resolution to sign covenants and just wait i like um what i'm mainly concerned about is

[3:15:39] Trustee McConchie (probable): like i've stated the past is i'm i don't know what the consultation will be with first nations and i

[3:15:45] Trustee McConchie (probable): don't believe that we should be creating gated islands and that's kind of a political perspective

[3:15:51] Trustee McConchie (probable): i have and i and i just want to talk to the applicants this is nothing at all uh to speaking

[3:15:58] Trustee McConchie (probable): speaking to the quality of the company and the environmental stewardship that's taking place

[3:16:03] Trustee McConchie (probable): on the island, this is more of a broader conversation that I'm trying to take into

[3:16:07] Trustee McConchie (probable): effect and ask these questions before I feel pressured to make a decision, right? So I'm not

[3:16:14] Trustee McConchie (probable): quite sure if any of my fellow trustees have any other opinions, but I might request further

[3:16:20] Trustee McConchie (probable): information as far as I'm concerned.

[3:16:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): I was going to say, one, you should not feel pressured into

[3:16:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): to making a decision i think that's fundamentally important um we could have we could call a special

[3:16:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): meeting we could uh could talk in in camera with our lawyers to get under more understanding so

[3:16:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): you have we have access to you know take our time and make a decision that uh you know so

[3:16:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): yes

[3:16:43] Trustee McConchie (probable): sorry chair patrick i just want to just from the trustee perspective explain like

[3:16:46] Trustee McConchie (probable): here's how i get this information so i've been asking about james island for two years

[3:16:50] Trustee McConchie (probable): for basically every other meeting to staff and i and then i get a private calls afterwards saying

[3:16:55] Trustee McConchie (probable): stay out of this this is a province versus not versus province with um first nations issue so

[3:17:03] Trustee McConchie (probable): stay out of it be quiet trustee um and then a week before a meeting this meeting i get this

[3:17:11] Trustee McConchie (probable): 200 page application so that's that's my life right that's what it's like to be a trustee here

[3:17:17] Trustee McConchie (probable): I haven't visited the island because we were concerned about offending First Nations people in the WSANIC territory, and we weren't able to arrange a visit there.

[3:17:29] Trustee McConchie (probable): So I'm just sort of like, I'm feeling not properly informed in order to make an appropriate decision on this particular application currently.

[3:17:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): Trustee Morrison?

[3:17:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): Sure.

[3:17:41] Voice 5: So I have a few questions, and hopefully we'll say a few things that may help on this front.

[3:17:50] Voice 5: So, first of all, I think I have to say, too, that I'm super uncomfortable thinking about this permit because of the complex historical and current situation.

[3:18:02] Voice 5: Like, this is an emerging and evolving space with DRIPA, with understanding what Indigenous rights, how we're exercising Indigenous rights as a colonial government.

[3:18:13] Voice 5: Like, that is super complicated right now.

[3:18:16] Voice 5: Like, we can't be exercising rights for others.

[3:18:19] Voice 5: So it's very complicated.

[3:18:21] Voice 5: And so I want to affirm that, and also that this permit is under various bylaw and legal issues related that have been approved prior to either myself or McConaughey or actually Chair Patrick being trustees.

[3:18:36] Voice 5: So there are actually, and we are representatives of the Islands Trust in our current role.

[3:18:42] Voice 5: So we can't go against things that necessarily we have legally signed as Islands Trust.

[3:18:48] Voice 5: So understanding and acknowledging that, too, I think is an important thing to kind of work through, even though I don't agree with what was done before.

[3:19:02] Voice 5: So trying to figure out and navigate this space is super complicated, is kind of the take-home message from those two points.

[3:19:11] Voice 5: So based on that, I also want to say that I understand

[3:19:17] Voice 5: and don't want to undermine the conversations that are going on right now

[3:19:22] Voice 5: with SAIL, with MOTI, with the applicant.

[3:19:25] Voice 5: And I want to make sure that those conversations continue.

[3:19:28] Voice 5: What I don't wish to do is sign away my right as one of the two elected officials

[3:19:35] Voice 5: that really is supposed to be looking out for interest in this area to the chair.

[3:19:41] Voice 5: of the trust because ben and i are the ones elected locally here that like the buck stops

[3:19:47] Voice 5: with us on this issue and so i need a little guidance and robert i think that you're the one

[3:19:53] Voice 5: to give it at the moment i need a little guidance on which of these six recommendations is like the

[3:20:00] Voice 5: final buck stops here recommendation in terms of us seeing this again at some point after

[3:20:08] Voice 5: or mode he has resolved that their DRIPA obligation went to

[3:20:12] Voice 5: sale because I would like to see everything back after that

[3:20:15] Voice 5: is done so that we can understand that

[3:20:19] Voice 5: true DRIPA consultation was done since we are the elected

[3:20:23] Voice 5: officials for the area. So that's what I would like to see. Can somebody give me guidance on

[3:20:28] Voice 5: which of these options is that?

[3:20:32] Voice 3: So you're

[3:20:34] Voice 3: asking that the LTC as a

[3:20:38] Voice 3: whole authorize the chair to sign the covenants after the consultation is complete uh the chair

[3:20:47] Voice 5: being laura or the chair being peter no

[3:20:50] Voice 3: it's laura it's the ltc yeah say

[3:20:54] Voice 5: that i would like to

[3:20:57] Voice 5: authorize the chair upon a final conversation approving that the drip of consultations are

[3:21:02] Voice 5: complete like that's the kind of extra step i would like to have

[3:21:06] Voice 3: it come back have it come

[3:21:07] Voice 3: back to the ltc's which yeah

[3:21:08] Voice 5: see that then i know then i feel calm that your obligations are met

[3:21:13] Voice 5: which is the the thing that i am unwilling to go on record not having met and

[3:21:21] Trustee McConchie (probable): i i would i need to

[3:21:23] Trustee McConchie (probable): i need more information regarding the um the uh consultation with first nations in the wissanic

[3:21:29] Trustee McConchie (probable): territory i need to like it's it's this big secret or something and i respect the wissanic leadership

[3:21:35] Trustee McConchie (probable): and of the province and what they're dealing with but i i cannot make a decision without fully

[3:21:40] Trustee McConchie (probable): understanding the consultation process necessary so i i wondering if i can make a motion that the

[3:21:45] Trustee McConchie (probable): north pender island local trust committee request that the applicant submit to the islands trust

[3:21:50] Trustee McConchie (probable): um a detailed um information report indicating the consultation process

[3:21:59] Trustee McConchie (probable): with the WSANIC Leadership Council?

[3:22:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): Before that, yeah.

[3:22:08] Trustee McConchie (probable): Can I second?

[3:22:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): I was going to say, I'll look to staff.

[3:22:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): Is that something we can ask?

[3:22:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): I guess before we second the motion, make sure.

[3:22:17] Voice 3: So I guess the first thing is that it's the Crown,

[3:22:21] Voice 3: represented by Modi, that's doing the consultation.

[3:22:26] Trustee McConchie (probable): Okay, great.

[3:22:27] Trustee McConchie (probable): I don't have any information in front of me about it.

[3:22:32] Trustee McConchie (probable): I need some information to understand.

[3:22:35] Trustee McConchie (probable): understand. That's one of the main points. What's going on with the consultation with the First

[3:22:38] Trustee McConchie (probable): Nations?

[3:22:40] Voice 16: Councillor, Trustee McConnachie, am I, on behalf of the applicant, able to interject here

[3:22:46] Voice 16: and provide you with some insight, I think, in that regard? Sure. We've been working extensively

[3:22:52] Voice 16: with the Minister of Transportation on behalf of the applicant through this consultation process,

[3:22:58] Voice 16: all the while being very mindful that this is the Crown's constitutional obligation and duty to

[3:23:03] Voice 16: to discharge. What the Crown has advised us is in the discharge of that duty, they're able to

[3:23:10] Voice 16: delegate certain, in their words, procedural aspects of the consultation duty to us as a

[3:23:16] Voice 16: proponent of the development. And that's been done. We've provided, there's been a substantial

[3:23:22] Voice 16: exchange of information and the Crown has carried on its process as it sees fit.

[3:23:30] Voice 16: it. I would expect that the information that is required here would need to be

[3:23:38] Voice 16: handed down by the Crown. I don't think us as the applicant are in a position to provide you

[3:23:43] Voice 16: with that information. It's not our process to run. Some of that information may be available

[3:23:49] Voice 16: from SEUD, but ultimately it's the Crown and at the top of that is the Provincial Approving

[3:23:55] Voice 16: officer uh that that makes the determination as to when their consultation process uh has been

[3:24:03] Voice 16: satisfied and in particular when uh the the crown's duty and the crown's honor has been satisfied

[3:24:10] Trustee McConchie (probable): so

[3:24:11] Voice 16: that's yeah go ahead go

[3:24:13] Voice 16: ahead greg okay i was just

[3:24:17] Voice 16: going to suggest that that any i think i

[3:24:19] Voice 16: think information in that regard rather than that come from us would need to uh would need to

[3:24:24] Voice 16: to originate from the Crown.

[3:24:26] Voice 16: I think it's the Crown that's in the position

[3:24:28] Voice 16: to be able to provide that.

[3:24:29] Trustee McConchie (probable): Okay, so can I amend my motion to ask the Crown?

[3:24:32] Trustee McConchie (probable): Like, that makes sense.

[3:24:34] Trustee McConchie (probable): I appreciate you explaining the process.

[3:24:36] Trustee McConchie (probable): That's a really good point, Greg.

[3:24:37] Voice 16: Yeah, and from an application standpoint

[3:24:40] Voice 16: and us bringing this forward to the LTC,

[3:24:42] Voice 16: one of the items that we'd like the committee to note

[3:24:47] Voice 16: is that we're working with multiple layers

[3:24:50] Voice 16: of administrative and governmental approval here.

[3:24:53] Voice 16: And what we're trying to do is sort of work through this

[3:24:54] Voice 16: in a logical and efficient process in terms of achieving the approvals that are necessary.

[3:24:59] Voice 16: And by having these, the covenants in particular, these drafted covenants put onto the agenda

[3:25:06] Voice 16: today, one of the items we're hopeful to achieve was to solicit any feedback that the trust

[3:25:12] Voice 16: committee might have, because if we come back to a subsequent meeting with a referral from

[3:25:18] Voice 16: the CRD with respect to the cash and lieu amount and an approval or a finalization from

[3:25:26] Voice 16: the provincial approving officer in respect of First Nations consultation, we don't want to then

[3:25:32] Voice 16: turn it around on the wording or the language in one of these particular covenants. We'd like to

[3:25:38] Voice 16: be able to have that in a form that's satisfactory to the committee so that it can be considered

[3:25:42] Voice 16: and finalized and a signatory appointed.

[3:25:46] Voice 16: So if there's a point being,

[3:25:47] Voice 16: if there's feedback on the specific terms

[3:25:49] Voice 16: of these covenants,

[3:25:50] Voice 16: please let us know and we can attend to that

[3:25:53] Voice 16: with staff and with Islands Trust legal counsel.

[3:25:58] Trustee McConchie (probable): Sorry, Trustee Morrison, did you have a question?

[3:26:01] Voice 5: Yeah, just before we get a,

[3:26:04] Voice 5: so I think your idea for a motion

[3:26:06] Voice 5: is literally what I'm asking for advice

[3:26:10] Voice 5: on what that motion should be

[3:26:11] Voice 5: just before you put that idea on the table

[3:26:13] Voice 5: is i really want to understand like is there a motion that basically says like

[3:26:20] Voice 5: a proven principle these ideas but we want to see the consultation like complete and come back to us

[3:26:28] Voice 5: before we approve them officially so because i think if i'm hearing correctly greg what you're

[3:26:34] Voice 5: looking for is that we're not finding any major flaw in all of the work that is here and i think

[3:26:41] Voice 5: there is some disagreement okay like among us but I mean if we can come to some kind of agreement

[3:26:47] Voice 5: of our like where our disagreement sits and like give that as advice to you I'm a I'm very reluctant

[3:26:54] Voice 5: honestly to approve anything that becomes kind of like legally binding going forward without that

[3:27:02] Voice 5: First Nation consultation process completing and so like as that completes I'm quite happy to come

[3:27:08] Voice 5: back and say okay this is what the first nations you know understand and want to be true in this

[3:27:14] Voice 5: and and figure out how to like get that to be whatever it needs to be in terms of covenants

[3:27:19] Voice 5: or other pieces here so and

[3:27:21] Voice 5: i know it's a little bit of a chicken and egg challenge for you as like

[3:27:25] Voice 5: which thing to do first and which things to do next but um honestly i i feel very strongly that

[3:27:31] Voice 5: um you know the the first nations conversations and consultation needs to be completed before

[3:27:37] Voice 5: we pass anything officially. So I need advice on what the motion is. It basically says,

[3:27:45] Voice 5: like, can we give whatever advice we need to on where we think there are problems here and then

[3:27:52] Voice 5: come back for final approval after First Nations complications? And then we have the information

[3:27:58] Voice 5: that Trustee McConaghy is asking for, because that process will be much clearer, I guess,

[3:28:04] Voice 5: is the question so

[3:28:07] Voice 3: robert so the first option is if you don't have any concerns with the technical

[3:28:11] Voice 3: aspects of the covenants and so on you could say you accept the covenants and that uh but but that

[3:28:18] Voice 3: authorization um to execute the covenants be deferred until such time as um consultation

[3:28:25] Voice 3: is completed if you wanted to have further review or discussion of the the specifics of the

[3:28:34] Voice 3: the covenants you could just defer this and bring it back at a future meeting ben

[3:28:41] Voice 5: what would you

[3:28:42] Voice 5: like to do um

[3:28:44] Trustee McConchie (probable): well uh i want to hear from the province what what's going on with the consultation

[3:28:49] Trustee McConchie (probable): and guarantee that the consultation is taking place um i want to defer a decision on the

[3:28:54] Trustee McConchie (probable): covenants till i have a better understanding of what what's going on um i i based on the

[3:28:59] Trustee McConchie (probable): conversation i i feel like i'm making a decision in real time which is not good process and i want

[3:29:05] Trustee McConchie (probable): to ensure that I'm doing the correct, I'm dotting the correct t's and correct i's.

[3:29:12] Trustee McConchie (probable): And we have opened a, it is a huge file, this is a, we're having an opinion on a whole island here.

[3:29:21] Trustee McConchie (probable): So that's where I stand on things currently, right now.

[3:29:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): I'm thinking, you know, because these covenants are legal documents,

[3:29:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): and that there would be value to the the three of us meeting with staff in our legal

[3:29:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): representation to talk about those aspects um and i i also very much agree that and you know

[3:29:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): with what here is delaying of course not signing it so maybe a next step is to arrange a meeting

[3:29:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): where we can get into that detail and that you know we're

[3:29:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you.

[3:30:00] Voice 16: The, sorry, and on behalf of the applicant here, just to step in one more time, the two of the covenants that we're requesting being signed, and they're in the agenda, one of them, the Raptor Nesting Trees Covenant, one of them, the Wildlife Trees Covenant, are in forms that were agreed upon between the applicant and the LTC.

[3:30:20] Voice 16: see the the specific wording of those forms are appended to the subdivision control covenant

[3:30:27] Voice 16: we've agreed to increase the minimum fine amount uh on our own volition that our client agreed that

[3:30:34] Voice 16: the fine was insufficient and has agreed to increase it from a thousand to fifteen thousand

[3:30:37] Voice 16: dollars in one of those covenants but uh but the specific terms of those covenants were were agreed

[3:30:42] Voice 16: upon uh word for word uh in 2008 when the subdivision control covenant was registered

[3:30:48] Voice 16: industry uh the other two covenants uh are derivatives of the land use bylaw um that we've

[3:30:53] Voice 16: reviewed with staff and with uh legal counsel for the islands trust they they just basically put

[3:30:58] Voice 16: into force uh two provisions of the land use bylaw restrictions on subdivision and construction

[3:31:03] Voice 16: mostly uh in in small portions of the island so there's not a lot of um there's not a lot of room

[3:31:11] Voice 16: in in either of any of those four covenants for for movement i don't think and we're we're very

[3:31:17] Voice 16: very happy with where we've gotten to with staff and and legal counsel for the

[3:31:21] Voice 16: honest trust in terms of how these are how these are constructed and put

[3:31:24] Voice 16: together. And, and, and so I don't think that there's,

[3:31:29] Voice 16: well,

[3:31:29] Voice 16: I appreciate the desire on the part of the trust committee to make sure that

[3:31:33] Voice 16: they fully understand and vet these, the Phil's report has done a good job of

[3:31:39] Voice 16: outlining them and there's not the forms of them are more or less agreed upon.

[3:31:44] Voice 5: That's number one and two, Greg.

[3:31:46] Voice 16: that's so yeah there's uh one is labeled the raptor nesting trees covenant one of them is

[3:31:51] Voice 16: labeled the wildlife trees covenant and then there are yeah numbers three and four which are

[3:31:56] Voice 16: derivatives of um i think it's subsection eight sub three sub one and eight sub three sub three

[3:32:02] Voice 16: of the land use bylaw there's

[3:32:04] Voice 11: the first two recommendations on the report yeah

[3:32:08] Voice 5: so the first

[3:32:08] Voice 5: two recommendations are the least concerning to me like in the context of

[3:32:14] Voice 5: all of this work I do understand they are the most constrained so like that

[3:32:21] Voice 5: one and two I have less concern about putting those on the table and agreeing

[3:32:27] Voice 5: to those my concerns actually lie in the three to six range of motions and I so

[3:32:37] Voice 5: And from the report, I can see that we do have the, like, given how all of the laws and everything are, that putting the number one and two in play and passing them are potentially helping everything that we can do in that space.

[3:32:55] Voice 5: um i think the biggest issue i have is like being on there's a lot of stuff in there that i want to

[3:33:06] Voice 5: see the the first nations consultation plan a little bit more clearly understood um so does

[3:33:14] Voice 5: somebody want to put a motion on the table or do i want to say what is the motion on the table

[3:33:19] Voice 5: looks like we can

[3:33:20] Voice 5: actually get it right here if

[3:33:23] Trustee McConchie (probable): trustee morrison we're we're um what i'm asking

[3:33:27] Trustee McConchie (probable): for is the province i guess as greg has uh corrected the process um i want to hear the

[3:33:33] Trustee McConchie (probable): province tell me what is the consultation is is taking place i want to hear i want to see a piece

[3:33:39] Trustee McConchie (probable): of paper that shows me i don't have that in front of me um i think that's reasonable you know like

[3:33:46] Trustee McConchie (probable): like, this is a big issue. This is like unprecedented legal territory that you guys are

[3:33:51] Trustee McConchie (probable): taking on. And I, uh, am not normally a cautious politician, but like this to me is I want to take

[3:34:01] Trustee McConchie (probable): a bit more caution into account. Um, I, I, am I being unreasonable in, in, in this? I don't think

[3:34:08] Trustee McConchie (probable): think so um i uh so i would i would propose a motion to that the to direct staff to ask the

[3:34:19] Trustee McConchie (probable): the ministry of transportation to provide consultation uh details and uh proof of

[3:34:25] Trustee McConchie (probable): consultation uh before proceeding i'll

[3:34:32] Voice 5: second that motion um and then let's just open that up

[3:34:41] Voice 5: for conversation if we can yeah

[3:34:42] Voice 5: i'm

[3:34:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): gonna get let me get shannon are

[3:34:45] Trustee McConchie (probable): you cool with the motion

[3:34:45] Trustee McConchie (probable): shannon yeah

[3:34:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): i was gonna

[3:34:47] Voice 4: wait for shannon had your previous motion thank you and

[3:34:50] Voice 4: so i don't

[3:34:52] Voice 4: think that i quite have the wording of your of the way that you worded the second time so you

[3:34:56] Voice 4: did make a motion and then made an amendment to your own motion the original motion was that the

[3:35:00] Voice 4: north pender island local trust committee direct staff to request that the crown provide to the

[3:35:04] Voice 4: island's trust a detailed report which outlines the consultation process with the wasanic leadership

[3:35:09] Voice 4: leadership council that motion wasn't seconded um but so if you want to give me the wording of

[3:35:15] Voice 4: your motion that you just made i did not get a chance to record that well

[3:35:19] Trustee McConchie (probable): it's it's proof of

[3:35:20] Trustee McConchie (probable): consultation and

[3:35:32] Voice 5: hold on hold on just one second with that thought brett um so can you read that

[3:35:37] Voice 5: back to us shannon working

[3:35:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): on it at

[3:35:43] Voice 4: the north pender island local trust committee direct staff

[3:35:45] Voice 4: to request that the crown provide to the islands trust proof of consultation with the wissanic

[3:35:50] Voice 4: leadership council it

[3:35:51] Voice 3: would actually be the say out say out yeah um

[3:35:58] Voice 5: then do you want to say anything

[3:35:59] Voice 5: else on that because i want to say one thing before we vote on that

[3:36:02] Trustee McConchie (probable): well is the sale leadership

[3:36:04] Trustee McConchie (probable): council because the wasanic leadership council i think has the sartlip sacrum and the wasanic

[3:36:09] Trustee McConchie (probable): or and the sale but they don't have the pacotran if i'm understanding correctly so this is just the

[3:36:14] Trustee McConchie (probable): say out leadership council it's just

[3:36:16] Voice 3: the say out yeah the crown is consulting with the say out

[3:36:19] Trustee McConchie (probable): as far

[3:36:20] Voice 3: as i understand that's

[3:36:21] Trustee McConchie (probable): true but is the term the say out leadership council is what i'm

[3:36:25] Trustee McConchie (probable): wondering is that important i think it's because the say out is like it's saying like the thing is

[3:36:30] Voice 3: with chief and council okay

[3:36:32] Trustee McConchie (probable): uh yeah trusting

[3:36:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): mcconkie would you like to speak to your motion

[3:36:40] Trustee McConchie (probable): i just want to i just want to know that consultation is taking place

[3:36:45] Trustee McConchie (probable): uh and i want to see documentation i don't have that in my current package

[3:36:49] Voice 11: Robert, can I just request, is that going to have to come in camera, though?

[3:36:54] Voice 3: Eventually, when we get it.

[3:36:55] Voice 3: Yeah,

[3:36:56] Voice 11: we'll have to.

[3:36:57] Voice 3: Could be an in-camera item.

[3:37:01] Voice 5: And, Chair Patrick, so one other thing I would comment on on this is that I agree with this overall.

[3:37:09] Voice 5: I probably will put the number one motion on the table after this.

[3:37:13] Voice 5: so then just and we can

[3:37:15] Voice 5: debate whether we want to consider it or not because i feel that it

[3:37:18] Voice 5: we're really bound already by pre-existing um decisions around that and i feel that's not

[3:37:26] Voice 5: conflict necessarily so that number one piece i feel like i do want to have on the table to

[3:37:31] Voice 5: make sure that it gets so and i i have to think a little bit or

[3:37:36] Trustee McConchie (probable): are we talking about the motion

[3:37:37] Trustee McConchie (probable): trustee morrison i'm confused what's yes okay i didn't think

[3:37:42] Trustee McConchie (probable): about this motion

[3:37:44] Voice 5: on the table i want to say it's not going to exclude me from wanting to put number one on

[3:37:49] Voice 5: the table i understand yeah

[3:37:50] Voice 5: okay so uh that's all i have to say right now

[3:37:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): yeah no i mean i

[3:37:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): understand this is we're in a frustrating space you know it the the statutory requirements for

[3:38:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): the consultation is occurring outside of us it's other parties um and that that's where it's

[3:38:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): it's very frustrating. And then we're bound through other statutory requirements that are

[3:38:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): kind of keeping us on this historic path. So it is frustrating, and I completely understand

[3:38:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): the frustration. And I do, if we are asking for the consultation, we may, like I said,

[3:38:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): want to speak to our lawyers as well to get, you know, to help us navigate through this space that

[3:38:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): that we're in because we are probably the first

[3:38:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): in the island's trust to face something like this.

[3:38:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): So at the time where we are in our commitments

[3:38:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): to reconciliation, and we're gonna be coming up

[3:38:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): against these time and time again, so we're learning.

[3:38:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): And the more we learn, the more we can share

[3:38:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): with the other areas as we move forward.

[3:38:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): So is there any other discussion on this motion?

[3:39:03] Voice 2: No.

[3:39:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): Sorry?

[3:39:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): i'm sorry i

[3:39:09] Voice 5: think the applicant had wanted to say something i'm

[3:39:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): sorry i don't have everyone's

[3:39:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): faces on my screen um go

[3:39:16] Voice 15: ahead just one point of clarification so trustee mcconkie you're

[3:39:20] Voice 15: looking for confirmation uh that consultation with say out first nation is taking place is

[3:39:26] Voice 15: that correct

[3:39:28] Trustee McConchie (probable): i'm looking for confirmation from the ministry yep that the about the consultation

[3:39:35] Trustee McConchie (probable): that has taken place and is and is going to take place got it okay

[3:39:40] Voice 15: so the specific sense of that

[3:39:42] Voice 15: yes it does yeah it does i

[3:39:44] Voice 15: believe that they've provided confirmation to plan or test them all

[3:39:48] Voice 15: and you can correct me if i'm wrong that consultation is underway with sale first

[3:39:51] Voice 15: nation and that it's not yet complete i don't know what detail they've provided to date and

[3:39:55] Voice 15: that was i can

[3:39:56] Voice 11: confirm that but it wasn't attached and that that record is not attached to this

[3:40:02] Voice 11: report because of obvious legal reasons so yeah but i can confirm that it has been undertaken as

[3:40:09] Voice 11: i said in my report that it's ongoing and we've had confirmation from modi and the pao that the

[3:40:16] Voice 11: consultation is still underway so

[3:40:18] Trustee McConchie (probable): yeah and just speaking to the motion and just clarifying the

[3:40:21] Trustee McConchie (probable): logic behind what i'm why i'm voting the way i am is because when you are asking a trust me the

[3:40:28] Trustee McConchie (probable): the trustee to make a decision so you're bringing us into the this has been brought into the

[3:40:31] Trustee McConchie (probable): trustee's purview now i can only make decisions when i have all the information in front of me

[3:40:37] Trustee McConchie (probable): necessary that that is where my logic lies right now right now i have i i require further

[3:40:43] Trustee McConchie (probable): information i apologize for the delay uh if this if this does cause a delay but i i certainly want

[3:40:48] Trustee McConchie (probable): to respect uh the the declaration we have made to first nations uh communities uh in our islands

[3:40:54] Trustee McConchie (probable): into the trust council policy discussions so i

[3:40:59] Voice 5: think i think i can add a little bit more

[3:41:02] Voice 5: clarification because i had a slightly different interpretation um so i actually am looking not

[3:41:09] Voice 5: to just know that consultation is underway but the authentic consultation is actually

[3:41:16] Voice 5: impacting the decisions modi's making or like how things are coming into force um so i want

[3:41:24] Voice 5: to understand that because i don't want to assign i i want moti to be the lead and like figure this

[3:41:31] Voice 5: out because that's what they are supposed to be doing firmly i want to say that um but i also

[3:41:38] Voice 5: can't give them completely my own responsibility to ensure that those decisions have been done

[3:41:45] Voice 5: like i need to see because since we are elected officials in this space that i need to like have

[3:41:52] Voice 5: have confirmation that that really was completed before I can say yes and to that point though

[3:41:59] Voice 5: the things that I see in here sit well with me I don't have concerns on this I think alludes to

[3:42:05] Voice 5: Greg's comment earlier while I know Trustee McConaghy has a number of concerns about the

[3:42:09] Voice 5: public access to this space I don't have concerns about what I see in the covenants here they seem

[3:42:15] Voice 5: solid to me.

[3:42:17] Voice 15: Thank you.

[3:42:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): Okay I'm going to ask Shannon can you read back the motion again

[3:42:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): because it's been a bit since absolutely

[3:42:25] Voice 4: that the north pender island local trust committee

[3:42:28] Voice 4: directs staff to request that the crown provide to the island's trust proof of consultation with

[3:42:33] Voice 4: the sayout chief and council

[3:42:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): trustee morrison i couldn't hear you if you're speaking yes there's

[3:42:42] Voice 5: one problem with that so it's to the island's trust or to the local north pender local trust

[3:42:46] Voice 5: committee it

[3:42:48] Voice 4: does say to the island's trust yeah

[3:42:51] Voice 5: because we want it here at the north pender local

[3:42:53] Voice 5: local trust committee

[3:42:54] Trustee McConchie (probable): to amend friendly amendment to the north pender local trust

[3:42:59] Trustee McConchie (probable): is

[3:42:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): that a friendly amendment to the secondary okay consider that a friendly amendment thank

[3:43:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): you shannon did you get that change thanks

[3:43:08] Voice 5: shannon okay

[3:43:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): uh any further discussion on this motion

[3:43:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): i'm going to call the vote all those in favor and that is carried up sorry too many people on this

[3:43:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): i'm losing my screen's not big enough okay that was carried trustee morrison okay

[3:43:29] Voice 5: i move number

[3:43:31] Voice 5: one that the north pender island local trust committee accept two covenants under section

[3:43:35] Voice 5: 219 of the land title act to satisfy the requirement of registered section 219 covenant

[3:43:42] Voice 5: fb 180725 subdivision control covenant from the registered owner of lots one two three four and

[3:43:48] Voice 5: by Section 1 James Island Couching District Plan VIP 85132 that are Attachment 5 Raptor

[3:43:57] Voice 5: Nesting Tree and Attachment 6 Wildlife Trees to this report for NT-Sub-2008.9 James Island.

[3:44:06] Trustee McConchie (probable): I second.

[3:44:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): Okay, it's been made and seconded. I do have one question. Normally when we have these,

[3:44:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): we would make that the either the chair be assigned to assign it are you would you be

[3:44:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): also saying that the chair be assigned to assign it but wait until the consultation is done or

[3:44:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): could we make that i'll look to staff could that be a

[3:44:28] Voice 11: second motion that's resolution six so i mean

[3:44:32] Voice 11: presumably you could make a resolution after this um in keeping with resolution six which would

[3:44:40] Voice 11: to sign this chair that

[3:44:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): was my question if a second motion was adequate to address that yeah

[3:44:47] Voice 5: let's do with

[3:44:48] Voice 5: this one because i think we may not have agreement on this so let's just let's

[3:44:52] Voice 5: just have this one first okay

[3:44:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): so yeah so if i

[3:44:56] Voice 5: can speak please

[3:44:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): do okay

[3:45:00] Voice 5: so and phil correct me if i'm

[3:45:03] Voice 5: wrong on this but my understanding of this particular motion is that we are are fairly

[3:45:09] Voice 5: hemmed in on this issue because of prior LTC, North Tender LTC-related covenants that have

[3:45:15] Voice 5: been signed and filed. And so getting this off the plate so that it's a little simpler

[3:45:21] Voice 5: can be a smoother issue to try and address

[3:45:25] Voice 5: the things that are really central.

[3:45:27] Voice 11: Yeah. And so as Greg pointed out, so the actual form of these covenants was attached to the

[3:45:36] Voice 11: subdivision control covenant and agreed to so they had he pointed out that they have um under

[3:45:43] Voice 11: their i think his words were his own volition of their own volition they have agreed to increase

[3:45:47] Voice 11: the penalty amounts in the wild tree one but essentially this you know the form of the

[3:45:54] Voice 11: covenants was was set in place with the development control covenant back in 2008 so yeah so thanks

[3:46:02] Voice 5: Thanks for the clarification. So my concern with not passing this is probably the better way to frame this than what my can like why I want to pass this.

[3:46:10] Voice 5: My concern with not passing this is that that idea of like the penalty or not could end up as like it could end up in some of the conversations in ways that is reduced somehow.

[3:46:26] Voice 5: The protection is reduced. And so I'm I want to put this as a minimum into the conversation.

[3:46:32] Voice 5: of what what goes forward with with sort of the conversations with various agents who are working

[3:46:39] Voice 5: on behalf of the province um on that i don't want there to be a doubt that we want raptor trees and

[3:46:44] Voice 5: wildlife protected so um i think that's kind of my stance on this issue i you know it doesn't

[3:46:51] Voice 5: inhibit what say i will you know advise or how they might like you know influence because drip

[3:46:58] Voice 5: if it's like to be adjacent to this and we'll have conversations but from our perspective I

[3:47:04] Voice 5: want that to be a minimum of what's required in that space

[3:47:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): trustee McConkie yeah

[3:47:11] Trustee McConchie (probable): I know I agree

[3:47:12] Trustee McConchie (probable): with that you can call the vote if you want

[3:47:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): all right I can do all right

[3:47:19] Trustee McConchie (probable): it's a good point it's

[3:47:20] Trustee McConchie (probable): a very good point all

[3:47:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): right uh then I will I'll call the vote on uh on the motion all those in

[3:47:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): in favor and that is carried do

[3:47:32] Trustee McConchie (probable): you want to do number two as

[3:47:33] Trustee McConchie (probable): well deb understand

[3:47:37] Voice 5: a little bit

[3:47:38] Voice 5: more deeply and like where it sits and then like i don't know so

[3:47:43] Voice 11: i can maybe help you out so as

[3:47:46] Voice 11: greg pointed out it's essentially derivative it's just an extension of the subdivision regulations

[3:47:52] Voice 11: and it um if a certain circumstance happens which is that you know you have properties that are

[3:47:58] Voice 11: through um averaging of lot sizes that end up being larger than others then you're you're required to

[3:48:08] Voice 11: to grant a covenant to the local trust committee um and same if you have areas left over that are

[3:48:15] Voice 11: common property that you know that are zoned for um residential that they could potentially have

[3:48:21] Voice 11: development on them or be subdivided further so what it's it's extreme it's it's just basically

[3:48:27] Voice 11: get technical extension of the land use bylaw so that's so i

[3:48:33] Voice 5: think i'm probably not as long as it's

[3:48:36] Voice 5: not and i need really clear guidance on this like the question is is it in any way inhibiting first

[3:48:43] Voice 5: nations conversations if we go ahead with number two i

[3:48:49] Voice 11: don't know how to talk

[3:48:50] Voice 8: about this yeah i

[3:48:51] Voice 11: don't i don't

[3:48:52] Voice 8: see how it would yeah

[3:48:53] Voice 5: that's where i don't think so

[3:48:55] Voice 5: like

[3:48:59] Voice 16: sorry phil i don't want to

[3:49:01] Voice 16: step or if i can interject the i would say that this is you can consider this i think in the same

[3:49:05] Voice 16: vein as as number one where the the subdivision control uh bylaw or the provisions of the of the

[3:49:11] Voice 16: land use bylaw which deal with subdivision control put this in as a requirement of the

[3:49:16] Voice 16: developer to grant as a condition of subdivision these covenants and the the form of them while

[3:49:21] Voice 16: not prescribed is very simple and we've worked through the language with uh legal counsel and

[3:49:27] Voice 16: And so, you know, it's not like there's a broad discretion here, I don't believe.

[3:49:32] Voice 16: And so it's very much in the same boat, I think, as number one.

[3:49:38] Voice 16: So I

[3:49:39] Voice 5: think I'm comfortable with number two, like we're going ahead and putting number two on the table.

[3:49:43] Voice 5: The remainder, I think I want to leave until we get legal advice.

[3:49:49] Trustee McConchie (probable): Okay, I'd like to make the motion

[3:49:50] Trustee McConchie (probable): that the North Fender Island local has written in the report.

[3:49:54] Trustee McConchie (probable): Can I just say that?

[3:49:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): No, I think you have to read that out, please.

[3:49:58] Trustee McConchie (probable): I tried.

[3:50:00] Trustee McConchie (probable): government man that the north pender island local trust committee accept two covenants under section

[3:50:05] Trustee McConchie (probable): 219 of the land title act to satisfy the provisions of subsection 8.31 and 8.33 of the north pender

[3:50:11] Trustee McConchie (probable): island associated lands associated islands land use bylaw number 148 2003 from the registered

[3:50:17] Trustee McConchie (probable): owner of lots 1 2 3 4 and 5 section 1 james island couch and district plan vip 85132 that

[3:50:23] Trustee McConchie (probable): are attachment 7 subdivision and density control for proposed strata laws 51 and 70

[3:50:28] Trustee McConchie (probable): and attachment aid subdivision

[3:50:30] Trustee McConchie (probable): and use control for common property partial.

[3:50:32] Trustee McConchie (probable): To this report for NPSUB 2008.9, James Allen.

[3:50:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): Is there a second?

[3:50:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): Seconded by Trustee Morrison.

[3:50:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): Any discussion on this motion?

[3:50:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): Nope.

[3:50:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): Then I will call the vote.

[3:50:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): All those in favor?

[3:50:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): And that is carried.

[3:50:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): So we still need to deal,

[3:50:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): I mean, the assignment to sign,

[3:51:01] Trustee Patrick (probable): that's a hard word to say,

[3:51:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): the covenants could we as recommended before is we can delay that this they not be signed until

[3:51:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): the the consultation is complete i

[3:51:14] Voice 5: would prefer that yes

[3:51:16] Trustee McConchie (probable): that would be the course of action as

[3:51:17] Trustee McConchie (probable): well um potentially if we set up an in-camera discussion as well is that something we need to

[3:51:22] Trustee McConchie (probable): make a motion to schedule

[3:51:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): um yes

[3:51:25] Trustee McConchie (probable): i make a make a motion to schedule an in-camera discussion

[3:51:29] Trustee McConchie (probable): discussion regarding application uh whatever it is s219 covenants and cash and loo amount

[3:51:39] Trustee McConchie (probable): is that appropriate yeah or is that clear direction is what i mean i'm not appropriate

[3:51:46] Trustee McConchie (probable): um just

[3:51:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): i was gonna say we'll give shannon a moment uh shannon did you get that motion

[3:51:53] Voice 4: no i did not quite get get it so what i have is that the north pender island local trust

[3:51:58] Voice 4: committee schedule an in-camera discussion regarding npsub 2008.9 james island to discuss

[3:52:06] Voice 4: and then there was some numbers and cash and moon so

[3:52:13] Trustee McConchie (probable): to discuss well sorry go ahead i think the

[3:52:18] Voice 5: motion is to discuss the first nations consultation process yeah

[3:52:27] Trustee McConchie (probable): i always want a meeting with a lawyer

[3:52:28] Trustee McConchie (probable): or legal advice about the implications of approving three through six does that need to

[3:52:36] Trustee McConchie (probable): or three, three for five.

[3:52:41] Voice 5: Yeah, okay, so let

[3:52:42] Voice 4: me get to the motion.

[3:52:43] Voice 5: So to discuss First Nations consultations

[3:52:48] Voice 5: with respect to details of,

[3:52:56] Voice 5: to get legal advice is what we actually want,

[3:53:01] Voice 5: to get legal advice with respect

[3:53:03] Voice 5: to First Nations consultations on covenants.

[3:53:09] Voice 5: That covers like all of the other stuff that's here.

[3:53:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): Shannon's doing her best

[3:53:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): maybe I don't know if staff

[3:53:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): is there some better

[3:53:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): description that would be useful

[3:53:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): to staff to also help

[3:53:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): arrange this meeting

[3:53:35] Voice 3: I think we

[3:53:37] Voice 3: get it

[3:53:38] Voice 3: we understand it

[3:53:40] Voice 3: to schedule a special meeting to obtain legal advice

[3:53:43] Voice 3: on proceeding further with

[3:53:45] Voice 3: the

[3:53:47] Voice 3: acceptance of the covenants

[3:53:48] Voice 3: I

[3:53:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): liked what he just said

[3:53:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): the Trustee McConkie, Trustee Morrison.

[3:53:54] Voice 16: Before finalizing this motion, can I make a suggestion

[3:53:58] Voice 16: that you include numbers three, four, and five

[3:54:03] Voice 16: within the context of that discussion?

[3:54:06] Voice 16: That's, sorry, planner testimonials for people

[3:54:08] Voice 16: with resolutions three, four, and five.

[3:54:12] Voice 16: And the rationale for that comes back to the same rationale

[3:54:15] Voice 16: as I submitted for items one and two,

[3:54:18] Voice 16: which is that all of them are already contracted for as between our client and the Islands Trust and the NCC as applicable.

[3:54:26] Voice 16: In particular, the existing Parks Covenant, which is 3A and then 3B, the Subdivision Control Covenant.

[3:54:34] Voice 16: The Subdivision Control Covenant says itself that upon satisfaction of the items called for in the Subdivision Control Covenant,

[3:54:42] Voice 16: which is one and two, and payment of the cash in lieu, that those two items, 3A and 3B, will be

[3:54:48] Voice 16: discharged. And so we've asked for the trust committee to consider appointing the signatory

[3:54:54] Voice 16: in respect of that. And then in number four, A, B, and C, the existing covenant and statutory

[3:55:01] Voice 16: rights of way provide for these modifications. And the trust committee has granted or agreed

[3:55:09] Voice 16: to grant these modifications at the time of subdivision.

[3:55:12] Voice 16: I've provided my undertaking that we won't register

[3:55:15] Voice 16: obviously anything until we've actually submitted

[3:55:19] Voice 16: the application for subdivision to the land title office.

[3:55:22] Voice 16: But all of these are already items

[3:55:25] Voice 16: that have been contracted for already.

[3:55:27] Voice 16: And so to the extent that you are intending

[3:55:29] Voice 16: to seek legal advice in respect of any of these matters,

[3:55:39] Voice 16: because I think that they're all very much in the same boat.

[3:55:41] Voice 16: um and to that end i um planner testamel and uh and our office have worked closely with

[3:55:48] Voice 16: uh your legal counsel michael mole at young anderson uh on on putting these together and

[3:55:54] Voice 16: he's been through them already so he's up to speed and

[3:55:58] Trustee McConchie (probable): that's great that's great just from

[3:55:59] Trustee McConchie (probable): a trustee perspective i haven't seen anything yeah

[3:56:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): i think uh i think so

[3:56:03] Trustee McConchie (probable): that i think that's

[3:56:04] Trustee McConchie (probable): like the main lesson here like the trustees are left out and it's just common and then it's like

[3:56:12] Trustee McConchie (probable): like well here's your package of course of course you should approve this and it's frustrating i

[3:56:17] Trustee McConchie (probable): want to see information i want to be properly informed that's the bottom line for me as a

[3:56:22] Trustee McConchie (probable): trustee thank you all

[3:56:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): right um i was gonna give shannon one more chance to read the motion and

[3:56:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): then um we can second the motion so uh shannon can you please read the motion as you understood it

[3:56:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): at

[3:56:36] Voice 4: the north pender island local trust committee direct staff to schedule an

[3:56:38] Voice 4: in-camera discussion regarding npsub 2008.9 james island to receive legal advice for proceeding with

[3:56:45] Voice 4: the covenants ah

[3:56:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): there we go uh is there

[3:56:50] Voice 5: a second oh

[3:56:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): go ahead so this this

[3:56:52] Voice 5: seems to not be in the

[3:56:54] Voice 5: motion which was intended i think to be in the motion is to seek um legal advice with respect

[3:57:01] Voice 5: to first nations consultation because like legal advice alone is not what we're seeking

[3:57:08] Voice 5: that's already being done exactly as Greg just said so what we're on we're

[3:57:14] Voice 5: trying to understand is actually First Nations consultation like in

[3:57:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): respect to

[3:57:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): the approval of the covenants is that and

[3:57:28] Voice 4: would it be helpful if I put the

[3:57:30] Voice 4: motion into that shared chat and then if somebody wants let me do that and then

[3:57:35] Voice 4: and then you can do a direct at it sorry

[3:57:42] Voice 16: my comment there was just consider

[3:57:45] Voice 16: consider broadening your motion to so it's not just exclusive to the covenants it's it's broader

[3:57:50] Voice 16: than that so that you're not limiting yourself land

[3:57:53] Voice 11: title documents would help maybe yeah

[3:57:55] Voice 11: or legal documents okay

[3:58:01] Trustee Patrick (probable): we have it in the chat we need to wordsmith this suggestions all right

[3:58:10] Voice 5: all

[3:58:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): right so it's that the north pender island local trust committee direct staff to schedule

[3:59:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): and in-camera discussion regarding this subdivision

[3:59:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): to receive legal advice and information

[3:59:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): about First Nations consultation

[3:59:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): for proceeding with the application.

[3:59:18] Voice 5: Ben, does that get at what you were concerned about?

[3:59:21] Trustee McConchie (probable): Yeah, I just, I need any more time with this file.

[3:59:24] Trustee McConchie (probable): I need, I need like, I don't know what else,

[3:59:27] Trustee McConchie (probable): how else to say that.

[3:59:29] Trustee McConchie (probable): I'm being, I'm as honest and brutal as I can.

[3:59:31] Trustee McConchie (probable): And I respect the applicant's knowledge

[3:59:33] Trustee McConchie (probable): on this particular issue.

[3:59:35] Trustee McConchie (probable): I've been asked to make a decision.

[3:59:36] Trustee McConchie (probable): I don't have enough. I am not knowledgeable enough or educated enough to make a decision regarding three through five right now with the recommendation that

[3:59:45] Voice 5: if we can put that motion on the table.

[3:59:48] Voice 5: So, I'm

[3:59:49] Trustee McConchie (probable): going to read that.

[3:59:51] Voice 5: Sure. Yeah, I'll in, and then then can see if that's a good to second, I'll go ahead so that the North Pender Island local trust committee.

[4:00:00] Voice 5: staff to schedule an in-camera discussion regarding NPSUB 2008.9 James Island to receive

[4:00:05] Voice 5: legal advice and information about First Nations consultation support before proceeding with the

[4:00:12] Voice 5: application.

[4:00:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right, is there a second to

[4:00:15] Voice 5: that motion? Second

[4:00:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): that, sure. That's

[4:00:18] Voice 5: going to give us

[4:00:19] Voice 5: I think then to be able to like digest this and really like understand what the consultation

[4:00:24] Voice 5: process is.

[4:00:25] Trustee McConchie (probable): I'd really appreciate that and that way I know I can go back to anybody who asked me

[4:00:30] Trustee McConchie (probable): a question about this and i can uh properly informed all the good work that uh the folks

[4:00:34] Trustee McConchie (probable): from james island properties are doing to ensure that this uh kind of grassroots uh thing that's

[4:00:40] Trustee McConchie (probable): taking place right now um and when i mean grassroots i mean you know this is kind we're

[4:00:45] Trustee McConchie (probable): going into uncharted territory there's no other i can't couldn't find any other the situation in

[4:00:51] Trustee McConchie (probable): canada quite like this one so um it's very interesting and i respect uh your guys's work

[4:00:57] Trustee McConchie (probable): on this very much so thank you and the staff of course uh and i apologize for not uh having the

[4:01:02] Trustee McConchie (probable): iq level high enough to comprehend uh everything to make a full and performed decision but i can

[4:01:08] Trustee McConchie (probable): assure you we will work hard uh to be as efficient as possible with regards to this we appreciate

[4:01:14] Voice 15: that thank you so much we really appreciate that thank you

[4:01:16] Voice 16: and we are an open book of resources

[4:01:19] Voice 16: here to the extent that we are able to share information that is within our uh purview and

[4:01:24] Trustee McConchie (probable): Yeah. And, and getting, thank you, Greg. And I just getting your guys's vibe. I look forward to

[4:01:29] Trustee McConchie (probable): maybe even talking to you guys in person or in person on the phone or whatever with a, with a

[4:01:36] Trustee McConchie (probable): mask on or whatever we're supposed to do. And so I, when I do have questions, I will certainly look

[4:01:41] Trustee McConchie (probable): forward to directly talking to the applicants, which is always a nice treat.

[4:01:46] Voice 15: Awesome. And I know

[4:01:48] Voice 15: that you had previously mentioned that out of respect for First Nations concerns, you were

[4:01:52] Voice 15: we're holding off on, uh, participating in a visit to the Island. Um,

[4:01:56] Voice 15: I will say that we've had a number of really productive visits with say out

[4:01:59] Voice 15: leadership, say out consultants, um, to the Island recently. Uh,

[4:02:04] Voice 15: and we hope we'll have a number of more visits on the calendar in the very

[4:02:08] Voice 15: near future. Um, I would love to get all of you.

[4:02:10] Voice 15: It's been an open invitation for a very extended period of time to get you

[4:02:14] Voice 15: over to the Island.

[4:02:15] Voice 15: The best way to get an understanding of the development is on site. Um,

[4:02:19] Voice 15: and I would love to be able to make that happen.

[4:02:21] Voice 15: and I didn't want to press out of respect for your position.

[4:02:23] Voice 15: I completely understand it,

[4:02:25] Voice 15: but I would really like to have you over to the property

[4:02:27] Voice 15: as soon as you're willing and able to be able to do that.

[4:02:30] Voice 15: So great.

[4:02:30] Voice 15: Thanks very much, Brett.

[4:02:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): A planner testimony.

[4:02:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): I had your hand raised.

[4:02:34] Voice 11: Just for clarification and just to clear things up,

[4:02:38] Voice 11: is it, I think you are, Chair Patrick,

[4:02:42] Voice 11: you're talking about or suggesting that we have you assigned.

[4:02:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yeah, that's

[4:02:48] Voice 11: going to be the next one.

[4:02:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): We have

[4:02:49] Voice 11: to vote on this motion first.

[4:02:50] Voice 11: sorry yes

[4:02:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): that is outstanding business um all right is there any further discussion on this

[4:02:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): motion that we have on the

[4:02:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): floor i will call the vote then all those in favor and that is carried

[4:03:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): now phil is correct that we still need to just discuss the uh the assigning so we need to

[4:03:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): probably modify six if

[4:03:12] Voice 11: you modify six by just striking um from two all the way to um

[4:03:19] Voice 11: um uh and before section 219 covenants and then that puts it forward to um acceptance

[4:03:29] Voice 11: finalization of the consultation and um the cash on the could

[4:03:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): you read the two you want me to read

[4:03:36] Voice 11: yeah can

[4:03:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): you read what you just recommended cutting out so

[4:03:38] Voice 11: basically taking recommendation

[4:03:40] Voice 11: six on page two so it would state that that the north pender island local trust committee

[4:03:45] Voice 11: designate the chair of the local trust committee to sign section 219 covenants cited in the

[4:03:51] Voice 11: foregoing resolutions upon written confirmation from the provincial approving officer that the

[4:03:56] Voice 11: consultation process between the ministry of transportation infrastructure and affected first

[4:04:01] Voice 11: nations bracket say out first nation has been finalized and and acceptance of a cash in lieu

[4:04:09] Voice 11: amount by resolution of the north pender island local trust committee so

[4:04:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): trustees did that make

[4:04:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): sense it was just removing a piece to be specific to the the covenants that you just approved uh

[4:04:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): that you accepted yes we have to

[4:04:27] Trustee McConchie (probable): allow you to do the job that we just approved but but you're

[4:04:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): delaying you're delaying me to do my job until the consultation's completed great

[4:04:34] Trustee McConchie (probable): sure go ahead

[4:04:43] Trustee McConchie (probable): so what what's going

[4:04:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): on so one of you needs to make a motion

[4:04:46] Trustee McConchie (probable): as amended

[4:04:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): phil was just recommending

[4:04:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): the amendment to six and

[4:04:53] Voice 5: then can you read that back to us what you think that is yes

[4:04:56] Voice 4: i can that

[4:04:56] Voice 4: i did have one question which i will read it back and then phil can clarify the north pender island

[4:05:02] Voice 4: local trust committee designate the chair of the local trust committee to sign section 219 covenant

[4:05:06] Voice 4: cited in the foregoing resolutions upon written confirmation from the provincial approving officer

[4:05:12] Voice 4: that the consultation process between the ministry of transportation and infrastructure

[4:05:16] Voice 4: and affected first nations bracket say out first nation has been finalized and acceptance of a cash

[4:05:22] Voice 4: in lieu amount that was the part where phil i don't think you used the word upon and i want to

[4:05:28] Voice 4: know if you meant to admit it so either oh

[4:05:30] Voice 11: i i missed upon sorry okay

[4:05:32] Voice 4: perfect so yeah sorry

[4:05:33] Voice 11: and

[4:05:35] Voice 4: upon acceptance of a cash in lieu amount by resolution of the first nation of the sorry and

[4:05:41] Voice 4: And upon acceptance of a cash in lieu amount by resolution of the North

[4:05:45] Voice 4: Pender Island local trust.

[4:05:46] Voice 4: Now

[4:05:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): that piece shouldn't have been in there because we didn't approve that

[4:05:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): yet. So it should be

[4:05:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): where it says say First Nations has been finalized.

[4:05:58] Voice 8: And is

[4:06:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): that the end of it?

[4:06:04] Voice 11: And excluding the cash in lieu portion. Is that what you're saying?

[4:06:07] Voice 11: Did

[4:06:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): we approve that?

[4:06:10] Voice 11: Approve what?

[4:06:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): sorry trustee morrison so

[4:06:16] Voice 5: question about why we need to pass any motion like this right now

[4:06:21] Voice 5: um why we can't wait until after we have had some more conversations because it is literally this

[4:06:28] Voice 5: consultation process that we want more information about before we sign off officially on things

[4:06:33] Voice 5: so i'm wondering what is the urgency for passing this motion today it's

[4:06:40] Voice 11: just i maybe robert can

[4:06:42] Voice 11: speak to this but it's like clarity so like we're going to be so for instance i i'm foreseeing a

[4:06:47] Voice 11: future report that says that you would um do all this based on the resolution that you passed in

[4:06:56] Voice 11: a previous report so it's just for clarity and i don't think it's i don't think it's inhibiting

[4:07:02] Voice 11: you know you receiving all the information and and finalizing everything it's you know we'd have

[4:07:09] Voice 11: have the same resolution with with the other with items three through five coming forward

[4:07:17] Voice 11: everything

[4:07:21] Voice 5: that was said by shannon with the exception of cash and loo amount because that's

[4:07:29] Voice 5: not in the resolutions that we covered is that accurate um

[4:07:33] Voice 11: it never was it's a cash and loo it's

[4:07:36] Voice 11: just basically tying your final approval to the accepting the cash and loo so there's no there's

[4:07:43] Voice 11: no foul in doing this it's just it's giving another thing that has like that's another

[4:07:47] Voice 11: thing

[4:07:47] Voice 1: that has to

[4:07:48] Voice 11: be completed um so in all of these resolutions the cash and lou is not mentioned

[4:07:53] Voice 11: until this point and it's saying we're tying you're tying these your final or the signature

[4:07:59] Voice 11: to these two things yeah

[4:08:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): no i'm okay yes correct so either of you

[4:08:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): want to make that motion

[4:08:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): i

[4:08:10] Voice 5: so move is

[4:08:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): there a second yes seconded by trustee mcconkey is there any discussion on this motion

[4:08:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): um

[4:08:21] Voice 5: maybe i can just say that i find bureaucracy and political motions deeply confusing

[4:08:26] Voice 5: complex and frustrating but i get it now thank you for the clarity

[4:08:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): i didn't do it

[4:08:34] Voice 11: by myself but believe me so also

[4:08:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): having low sugar here not having any uh

[4:08:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): coffee for a while or lunch all right so i'm going to call about then all those in favor

[4:08:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): and that motion is carried is there any other business that we need to do on this application

[4:08:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): today uh

[4:08:56] Trustee McConchie (probable): well we tried to solve the world's problems but uh it seems as though it will

[4:09:00] Trustee McConchie (probable): have to save it for another day that's

[4:09:03] Voice 5: okay though for sharing with us on such a complicated

[4:09:05] Voice 5: yes

[4:09:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): uh thank you and uh we'll be having more conversations

[4:09:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): i trust me

[4:09:14] Voice 16: i asked a question just just on process um so uh you guys are have have

[4:09:22] Voice 16: motioned to have an in-camera meeting with legal counsel um or to schedule a meeting to to have

[4:09:30] Voice 16: with legal counsel on on on this consultation issue um to finalize the approval on items

[4:09:38] Voice 16: call it three through five on on uh on phil's agenda or sorry planner testimony's agenda do we

[4:09:46] Voice 16: do you need to bring that back forward to a meeting similar to this one or or do those

[4:09:51] Voice 16: sort of those sort of things happen in your in-camera meeting no

[4:09:54] Voice 11: we would we would bring

[4:09:55] Voice 11: those forward um you know likely with i mean it depends on the scheduling and it depends on

[4:10:01] Voice 11: where the trustees are at with um that in-camera meeting and the information that they receive in

[4:10:08] Voice 11: there but essentially what we would do is we would we need to come again to the trustees at a minimum

[4:10:14] Voice 11: with the cash and loo and we would bring these motions back to them so three through five and

[4:10:19] Voice 11: And then a variation on six, which would basically, you know, have the chair signing that and withholding that signature till such a time as it's completed.

[4:10:30] Voice 11: So we could potentially bring to the next meeting those resolutions and the cash-in-lieu amount for them to consider at that point.

[4:10:40] Voice 11: Okay. Thank you, Phil. Appreciate it.

[4:10:42] Voice 11: You're welcome.

[4:10:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): Trustee Morrison?

[4:10:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): person and

[4:10:45] Voice 5: i think one of um my own concerns personally in this is um really being able to

[4:10:53] Voice 5: understand do you have things move along far enough um in whatever consultations are appropriately

[4:10:59] Voice 5: going on between you um the sale and moti as representative for the crown like to have that

[4:11:06] Voice 5: move along far enough so that we feel that this obligation to that this is in the last item six

[4:11:12] Voice 5: here this idea of what is the obligation to discharge um affected first nations consultation

[4:11:21] Voice 5: process is complete enough that

[4:11:23] Voice 5: we feel that that that derpa obligations have been met so that we

[4:11:27] Voice 5: can actually say yes go and like because this is the last of our ability to release our own

[4:11:32] Voice 5: obligations in this space and we just want to make sure that derpa is covered we understand

[4:11:37] Voice 16: I understand. I

[4:11:37] Voice 5: appreciate your due consideration.

[4:11:40] Voice 5: Yeah. And again, this is not necessarily about you as an applicant.

[4:11:45] Voice 5: Personally, this is making sure that MOTI does their work.

[4:11:50] Voice 10: Understood.

[4:11:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right. Well, thank you very much. And we will see you again.

[4:11:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): Trustees, how are you feeling? Do you need a break or carry on?

[4:12:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): I'm just making sure we're doing okay. It's 11.

[4:12:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank

[4:12:03] Voice 15: you. Thank you. Thank you so much, everybody. Appreciate it.

[4:12:06] Voice 15: you. Thanks all.

[4:12:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): Trustees, how are you doing?

[4:12:12] Trustee McConchie (probable): What page are we on in the agenda now? We are

[4:12:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): moving

[4:12:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): on to page 230. It's item 12.3.

[4:12:19] Trustee McConchie (probable): We've got, I believe, Williams on the line. I'm wondering if

[4:12:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): William

[4:12:22] Trustee McConchie (probable): has showed up patiently.

[4:12:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): He has been there, but we have this referral from South

[4:12:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): Pender at item 12.3 on page 230. So proceed. Everyone okay with proceeding? I'm sorry.

[4:12:39] Voice 5: i would like to ask for a potential schedule change too just to take advantage of of william

[4:12:47] Voice 5: shovel being here because i'm concerned about my time as well that i'm hitting my obligation

[4:12:51] Voice 5: my normal 130 obligation on thursday yeah and

[4:12:55] Voice 5: i want to make sure your william show about

[4:12:57] Voice 5: conversation okay we can you would

[4:12:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): like to skip to 13.1 proceed 13.1 all right so we're at 13.1

[4:13:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): one the groundwater sustainability project report on page 235 turn to staff so

[4:13:12] Voice 3: this report has been

[4:13:13] Voice 3: placed back on the agenda from the last meeting again ran out of time at the last meeting if you

[4:13:17] Voice 3: recall having discussion about that william's here as well to talk about this we did have at the last

[4:13:24] Voice 3: meeting the draft project charter it's still attached although the dates will probably have

[4:13:31] Voice 3: have to change subsequently if you decide to proceed with that and at the last meeting there

[4:13:37] Voice 3: was a direction or decision to have a sort of a more comprehensive or fulsome discussion about the

[4:13:46] Voice 3: sort of strategic direction you want to go with the rest of your rest of your time this term and

[4:13:52] Voice 3: how this fits into that and I guess one update I can give you is that Galliano has adopted the

[4:14:00] Voice 3: the project charter that is identical to this one.

[4:14:05] Voice 3: And so staff are proceeding, William and Nerissa

[4:14:09] Voice 3: is the lead staff are proceeding with the work for Galliano.

[4:14:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): The trustees, what we were doing last time

[4:14:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): I was talking about are clear

[4:14:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): what we wanted from this project,

[4:14:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): but what was our expectations as a political body

[4:14:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): as to for this project,

[4:14:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): what was the deliverable that we expect to see from it?

[4:14:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): Those type of things.

[4:14:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): so staff are here

[4:14:36] Voice 3: so

[4:14:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): William

[4:14:39] Voice 3: did you have anything to add um

[4:14:42] Voice 6: um not really I mean I

[4:14:46] Voice 6: went through the presentation um last time and um the uh Robert your your um report is on here

[4:14:58] Voice 6: as well and um I I don't have I don't have much to add I can give a brief update to where we are

[4:15:05] Voice 6: on updating the the work the mapping work that's going to be coming out and um i've we also

[4:15:12] Voice 6: presented to saturn island um and and they were like uh very engaged in in um uh first i think

[4:15:24] Voice 6: they were confused and then after my my my report to them were really engaged in in what that island

[4:15:31] Voice 6: or that LTC can utilize the mapping for which would be totally different than the other islands

[4:15:38] Voice 6: because largely Saturnia is close to being built out so there it's more looking at the existing use

[4:15:45] Voice 6: perhaps coordinating with Parks Canada with with looking at how changes in in ecosystems can

[4:15:55] Voice 6: support increased recharge. So that was interesting. So yeah, I mean, I'm not sure

[4:16:06] Voice 6: what detail the LTC would like to get into. I'm open for questions.

[4:16:13] Voice 6: I have

[4:16:15] Voice 5: a few questions specifically. So in the project charter timeline, the community

[4:16:21] Voice 5: consultations go between October and December 2021 and then the draft bylaw is 2022 correct me

[4:16:29] Voice 5: if I'm wrong but doesn't this term end in 2022 uh

[4:16:33] Voice 3: November 2020 22 yeah

[4:16:36] Voice 5: so I just want to think

[4:16:39] Voice 5: about that because in terms of having bylaw amendments um passed in the scope of this term

[4:16:46] Voice 5: I think it's really important, given the amount of work that has gone on around us, that we attempt to get these bylaw amendments in place before the end of this term.

[4:16:58] Voice 5: And so I need to understand what room there is to make that happen so December 2022 doesn't end up on a project charter that we're improving.

[4:17:08] Voice 5: So that's the biggest question I have because I want to see like this has been something that I understand that it's got expanded in the scope of project, but it's literally like the first thing we did.

[4:17:19] Voice 5: And so I just want to make sure that it's getting completed our term.

[4:17:24] Voice 3: So we've set out the timeline there that it would be completed in the term.

[4:17:30] Voice 3: that's that's the intent of

[4:17:31] Voice 3: the timeline i mean there's some some sort of um you might say

[4:17:35] Voice 3: housekeeping matters that would probably extend into the end to the right to the end of 2022

[4:17:40] Voice 3: i've identified them there and the you know there might be some updates to things like the

[4:17:44] Voice 3: the bylaw enforcement notification bylaw that would be sort of what would you say um

[4:17:49] Voice 3: consequential to the bylaws that's the implementation part of it that's june to

[4:17:54] Voice 3: to June on okay so

[4:17:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): can so my understanding is there will be uh there will be a number of

[4:18:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): potential options that would be identified to implement the mapping that has been done and then

[4:18:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): as trustees we would be choosing which of those options through either you know we would decide

[4:18:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): what that process is and then uh picking it'll likely be like one um and that would then proceed

[4:18:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): through to bylaw is that sort of a summary that's

[4:18:26] Voice 3: a summary and then there there would be some

[4:18:27] Voice 3: community consultation as well yes yeah

[4:18:29] Voice 6: and uh it uh through the cherry it'll be like specific to

[4:18:33] Voice 6: north pender of course so the analysis would be on the existing um regulations as they pertain

[4:18:40] Voice 6: to groundwater um in the north pender land use file on the official community plan perhaps and

[4:18:48] Voice 6: And, and so those will be identified. I'm not sure if just, I'm not sure if the LTC will choose the process in which we undertake those, but and choose the, the, the focus of our process.

[4:19:01] Voice 6: Will

[4:19:04] Voice 5: the April 2021 staff report on implementation options, will we have like in that report, concrete sort of choices on where to go for how to focus the bylaw implementation options that are like failed in nature or is that something we're waiting until September to see?

[4:19:29] Voice 5: so

[4:19:30] Voice 3: yeah so the for the may be may of 2021 now because it's already february right so these

[4:19:39] Voice 3: dates probably have to be adjusted a bit but the intent is to deliver to local trust committee

[4:19:44] Voice 3: a summary of all the analysis that william and narissa are going to undertake

[4:19:50] Voice 3: and identify some options based on the you know the existing development potential on north pender

[4:19:57] Voice 3: and the results of the mapping one option would be development permit areas another option would

[4:20:04] Voice 3: be to amend your zoning in certain locations because of where the development potential is

[4:20:10] Voice 3: located in relation to the groundwater regions and specific groundwater regions then there are

[4:20:15] Voice 3: some things that will probably would apply to any local trust committee that's doing this project

[4:20:21] Voice 3: which is update your subdivision servicing regulations around groundwater proof of potable

[4:20:25] Voice 3: water because

[4:20:26] Voice 21: they're 25 years

[4:20:27] Voice 3: old look at your cistern regulations if you have them if you don't

[4:20:30] Voice 3: have them and implement them based on the lessons we've been learning about the small areas that do

[4:20:38] Voice 3: have the cistern regulations now and the problems with administering that and then there might be

[4:20:45] Voice 3: some other other things that could be offered as alternatives as well that are a little more

[4:20:51] Voice 3: are outside the outside those sort of standard options do

[4:20:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): we include the associated islands in

[4:20:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): this no

[4:21:00] Voice 6: that a scope i'm

[4:21:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): asking the trustees this is a political conversation i

[4:21:05] Voice 6: think what

[4:21:06] Voice 6: william

[4:21:07] Voice 3: was trying to say is that the mapping didn't include

[4:21:09] Voice 6: the mapping was at a scope no but

[4:21:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): if we talk about proof of subdivisions so i'm that's why i'm trying to look at the trustees

[4:21:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): that you know we just discussed an application that we did not have any requirements for them

[4:21:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): to prove water for that subdivision on

[4:21:25] Voice 6: all due respect i and if i'm speaking freely chair i

[4:21:28] Voice 6: think that is a mistake to give up that card um but that's was before my time no

[4:21:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): but can we fix

[4:21:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): it going forward that's not the only island left so that's anyway um i just was raising that more

[4:21:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): for the trustees here sure

[4:21:44] Voice 6: I do have some very passionate perspectives on on

[4:21:50] Voice 6: that particular application and actually just just to mention on that due to that

[4:21:58] Voice 6: application current application that we did keep it out of scope the mapping and

[4:22:04] Voice 6: and and because it is a different kind of a geographical region the the

[4:22:08] Voice 6: the associated islands compared to the penders so yeah um

[4:22:15] Trustee McConchie (probable): okay so uh i don't know like maybe i'm

[4:22:21] Trustee McConchie (probable): just tired or whatever but it's like it's like designed in a time frame of a political term

[4:22:27] Trustee McConchie (probable): right like the schedule and robert just listed a whole bunch of things we should do right now

[4:22:33] Trustee McConchie (probable): like i don't get like why it's like this is the time block and it's like there's this great report

[4:22:41] Trustee McConchie (probable): that's coming out that i'm stoked to read william it's like or sorry groundwater specialist whatever

[4:22:47] Trustee McConchie (probable): the term is and i want to read it and then i want to be able to talk to islanders about it

[4:22:53] Trustee McConchie (probable): i want to get their input because there's lots of great uh folks that i can talk to as well

[4:22:59] Trustee McConchie (probable): that have great lots of opinions uh and but what i'm hearing is like the report's coming out and

[4:23:05] Trustee McConchie (probable): then narissa is gonna start the work is that how i'm understanding and it's like it's like the way

[4:23:10] Trustee McConchie (probable): it's like the time is subdivided it doesn't i don't like we need to do it now don't we like

[4:23:17] Trustee McConchie (probable): don't we need to implement changes to the bylaws that protect our groundwater like

[4:23:21] Trustee McConchie (probable): a year ago is kind of my question so i don't get i don't know if there's an answer to my question

[4:23:28] Trustee McConchie (probable): but it just seems like it's all it's all like structured like in a way that i don't necessarily

[4:23:33] Trustee McConchie (probable): it needs to think it needs to be linear like that like we you guys have great ideas that we

[4:23:39] Trustee McConchie (probable): we could change to our bylaws that i guarantee if i bought a six pack of beer and some pizza

[4:23:44] Trustee McConchie (probable): you could scribble down on a pizza box and then we could put it in a in a format right or what

[4:23:49] Trustee McConchie (probable): am i not understanding i think

[4:23:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): we're gonna have to make choices as my understanding is we can't

[4:23:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): do it all so we will have to choose which which bylaws we or which options we wish to move forward

[4:24:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): word

[4:24:04] Voice 3: or you or potentially all of them right there could could be but could be yep there'll

[4:24:08] Voice 3: be

[4:24:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): a list

[4:24:10] Voice 3: list of things that uh based on the mapping specific to north pender yeah and the

[4:24:17] Voice 3: development potential and the geology of north pender yeah they'll

[4:24:21] Voice 3: have some some decisions to

[4:24:22] Voice 3: make as an ltc right yeah

[4:24:24] Trustee McConchie (probable): i guess what i'm wondering sorry to interrupt robert yeah

[4:24:28] Trustee McConchie (probable): no no i

[4:24:29] Trustee McConchie (probable): guess what i'm wondering is why can't is it not possible to have like like now like you get don't

[4:24:33] Trustee McConchie (probable): are you guys like know what the score is but it's structured in like a government employee way

[4:24:38] Trustee McConchie (probable): right and i respect it all and then all that stuff and i understand you have an organization

[4:24:42] Trustee McConchie (probable): but i'm just wondering like you know where's the urgency like shouldn't we be debating like don't

[4:24:50] Trustee McConchie (probable): don't we know it's not

[4:24:51] Voice 3: it's not structured in a government employee way it's structured in a way

[4:24:55] Voice 3: that you as the decision makers get the information you need to give some direction and then i mean

[4:25:03] Voice 3: I mean, there's an element built in here of education and community consultation as well.

[4:25:07] Voice 3: Maybe you as an LTC decide, we don't need community consultation.

[4:25:12] Voice 3: Cut that out.

[4:25:13] Voice 3: Go straight to drafting bylaws.

[4:25:17] Voice 6: And also, through the chair, just to comment on this.

[4:25:22] Voice 6: So there was a project charter put before you several years ago now, or a year ago,

[4:25:27] Voice 6: a year and a half ago, that broke this project up into phases.

[4:25:31] Voice 6: And that was agreed upon by the LTC.

[4:25:33] Voice 6: And so the phases were phase not, data collection, phase one, recharge mapping, phase two, groundwater availability, phase three, which we're presenting to you now, implementation of those maps, right?

[4:25:44] Voice 6: So, you know, and Trustee McConkie, you know, to sit around and have some beers and eat some pizza, I just simply put a map in front of you.

[4:25:53] Voice 6: and yeah sure we can sit down right now and say what would we do for the red areas and what would

[4:25:59] Voice 6: we do for the green areas but the evidence-based process to determine where those areas are

[4:26:03] Voice 6: right and what's the sensitivity analysis on that so that's what took all this time and now

[4:26:10] Voice 6: pretty much those um those those that mapping project and like all this good work that that

[4:26:17] Voice 6: that we that we had to go through through a procurement process right so that was one delay

[4:26:21] Voice 6: delay the the the fact that we couldn't move forward without a review was another delay and

[4:26:28] Voice 6: that had to go through the regional planning committee which was another delay right and so

[4:26:32] Voice 6: here we are but the the the benefit that we have is that we can still finish this by the end of

[4:26:38] Voice 6: your term and and that's what we presented to you last meeting and that's what we're talking about

[4:26:43] Voice 6: now so but the the one thing that staff doesn't want to do is waste the ltc's time in going down

[4:26:49] Voice 6: a rabbit hole because i'm really passionate about act for recharge potential but perhaps the ltc

[4:26:53] Voice 6: wants to focus on a few other aspects than just that one so i think the opportunities um line here

[4:27:01] Voice 6: that uh with the get ltc direction on the staff report on the implementation options

[4:27:07] Voice 6: in april or may now um is going to allow us to orientate ourselves and then we're going to work

[4:27:13] Voice 6: on that and then at least we know that we're um that our intentions are harmonized with the ltc's

[4:27:20] Voice 6: um uh i guess anticipated outcomes from this entire project and and i'll say to you just

[4:27:28] Voice 6: outside of having project charters that are in front of the ltc in in a in a legal and open

[4:27:35] Voice 6: public way staff have been talking about this a lot right so you're right like we have been

[4:27:40] Voice 6: in working through how to do this,

[4:27:43] Voice 6: but we still need the LTC direction on where to focus.

[4:27:47] Voice 5: Yeah, if I can just try to distill this,

[4:27:53] Voice 5: I'm sorry, but I have obligations for work too

[4:27:57] Voice 5: that I have to go.

[4:27:58] Voice 5: This has been a long meeting so far today.

[4:28:01] Voice 5: But I think what I want to see to help hopefully

[4:28:05] Voice 5: give direction, like you're saying, William,

[4:28:07] Voice 5: is like what I wanna see in the April report,

[4:28:10] Voice 5: And there has been a little slippage in some of the timeline, I feel.

[4:28:15] Voice 5: I'd have to go back and look at the documents in the prior charter.

[4:28:19] Voice 5: But what I really want to see is I want to see, like, a tiered version of what we can implement in April.

[4:28:27] Voice 5: Like, what we can say, go, we want to see a bylaw on this in April.

[4:28:30] Voice 5: And what we can say, no, we need to do some further analysis based on the water mapping.

[4:28:35] Voice 5: Because there's two different pieces, right?

[4:28:37] Voice 5: You're talking about the water mapping and the recharge zones and those things, but then there's also some cistern and water storage things that might be low-hanging fruit for us just to get in place so that any new development in the trust, it's not going to be two years from now, but it's six months from now, potentially has to abide by those cistern rules or whatever those are.

[4:28:56] Voice 5: So and those are the kinds of things that don't necessarily depend on the actual recharge areas of the trust.

[4:29:06] Voice 5: And so I just would like to see in the April report, I'd like to see some nuance to that.

[4:29:10] Voice 5: Like, is there actually things that you think we can do more quickly?

[4:29:14] Voice 5: And are there things that we need deeper analysis to do next?

[4:29:19] Voice 5: Ben, do you want to get a motion on the table related to the charter?

[4:29:22] Voice 5: Or do you want to just go ahead

[4:29:24] Voice 5: and do that with Laura?

[4:29:25] Voice 5: It's totally up to you.

[4:29:26] Voice 5: I'm fine with how you want to proceed on this.

[4:29:36] Trustee McConchie (probable): I think it's appropriate.

[4:29:38] Trustee McConchie (probable): I have private conversations about this after.

[4:29:39] Trustee McConchie (probable): So I'll just make a,

[4:29:41] Trustee McConchie (probable): I'll make a motion that the North Pender Island local trust committee

[4:29:43] Trustee McConchie (probable): approve the project charter for the implementation of implementation of

[4:29:46] Trustee McConchie (probable): phase of the groundwater sustainability project.

[4:29:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): Is there a second?

[4:29:50] Voice 5: Yeah.

[4:29:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): Is there a discussion on this motion?

[4:29:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): I just, I guess I'll have to stop quickly.

[4:29:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): Was the phased.

[4:30:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): approach what was making sense or?

[4:30:04] Voice 6: So through the chair, like I would say that.

[4:30:06] Voice 6: Because

[4:30:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): we're going to lose Deb before the vote here.

[4:30:09] Voice 6: Yeah, low hanging fruit is proof of water.

[4:30:12] Voice 6: We are doing on Salt Spring Island and Sherry you're aware

[4:30:14] Voice 6: of how long that has been taking, right?

[4:30:17] Voice 6: But we will have good referrals back from the province.

[4:30:21] Voice 6: So I imagine that we can learn from that

[4:30:23] Voice 6: and bring that forward.

[4:30:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): I'm going to cut you off

[4:30:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): because we're going to lose Deb in about two seconds.

[4:30:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): So I'm hearing, I think confirmation

[4:30:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): that we can have some of that approach.

[4:30:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): And

[4:30:31] Voice 3: we can bring the pros and cons

[4:30:33] Voice 3: of doing that approach, right?

[4:30:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): Super.

[4:30:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right, then.

[4:30:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): Is there any further discussion on this motion?

[4:30:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): I'll call the vote.

[4:30:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): All those in favor?

[4:30:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): Carried.

[4:30:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): Sorry, I knew Deb was going to disappear now.

[4:30:46] Voice 5: I apologize, but it's a really,

[4:30:50] Voice 5: we purposely moved our meetings an hour early

[4:30:53] Voice 5: to try to avoid the conflict.

[4:30:54] Voice 5: So I think we need to really consider,

[4:30:57] Voice 1: I

[4:30:57] Voice 5: can't move the 1.30 meeting, I'm constrained.

[4:31:01] Voice 5: So I apologize for this,

[4:31:03] Voice 5: but really thanks for the good discussion this morning

[4:31:06] Voice 5: because I think it was needed on the other issues.

[4:31:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): No, thank you Deb.

[4:31:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): We're running into this Salt Springs having this,

[4:31:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): it's like trying to make this time

[4:31:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): that we're either cutting applications short

[4:31:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): or projects short

[4:31:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): and we have to find a way that we're not doing either.

[4:31:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): Okay, Trustee McConkie, how are you feeling?

[4:31:24] Trustee McConchie (probable): Well, I have to go to work too, but I'll stick around.

[4:31:27] Trustee McConchie (probable): around

[4:31:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): well i guess we're on

[4:31:29] Trustee McConchie (probable): my feeling do you do you really want to know chair patrick i care

[4:31:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): deeply thank you we can speak

[4:31:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): privately i do yes please um okay uh we'll go back to the referral

[4:31:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): do you want to deal with the bylaw referral from south fender or i

[4:31:47] Trustee McConchie (probable): i would just say the

[4:31:48] Trustee McConchie (probable): interests are unaffected um

[4:31:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): okay that was on page 230 yes from staff oops sorry i'm now was ahead

[4:31:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): now behind so did you want to make a motion as to that and then uh

[4:32:06] Trustee McConchie (probable): sorry can you describe the

[4:32:07] Trustee McConchie (probable): page run again one more time 230 what well

[4:32:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): the the description of the bylaw referral is on page

[4:32:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): that

[4:32:14] Trustee McConchie (probable): the north pender island trust committee interests are unaffected by bylaw

[4:32:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): bylaw one two

[4:32:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): one by

[4:32:21] Trustee McConchie (probable): one two one two

[4:32:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): one yep shannon always works the magic i'll second that motion shannon

[4:32:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): did you you got that just one sec at

[4:32:55] Voice 4: the north pender island local trust committee respond to

[4:32:57] Voice 4: referral south pender island local trust committee bylaw number one two one with interests unaffected

[4:33:03] Voice 4: all right

[4:33:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): does that sound okay trustee mcconkie

[4:33:08] Trustee McConchie (probable): that's great thank you all

[4:33:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): right i'll call the

[4:33:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): vote then all those in favor and that is carried um i take it we need to defer item 13.2 until the

[4:33:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): next meeting which yep okay looks

[4:33:23] Voice 8: like it yeah yep

[4:33:24] Trustee McConchie (probable): and

[4:33:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): um i guess racing forward on the agenda

[4:33:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): here we have our top priorities list that uh uh isn't affected because the water is already on

[4:33:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): on there is my understanding from staff to them.

[4:33:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): So no changes need to be made to reflect that.

[4:33:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): Any other changes you want to make to that Trustee McConkey?

[4:33:48] Voice 21: Nope.

[4:33:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): So the rest of the items and on our agenda

[4:33:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): with the exception of the communication strategy

[4:33:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): or information items for the 14.2 through six

[4:34:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): and we come to your communication strategy again

[4:34:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): that we skipped before.

[4:34:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): Would you like to have some discussion on that now?

[4:34:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): No,

[4:34:09] Trustee McConchie (probable): we need trustee Morris in here, unfortunately.

[4:34:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right.

[4:34:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): And our next meeting is not until March 25th.

[4:34:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): Like I was going to say, on Salt Spring, we've run into the same issue with our meetings becoming more complicated because of the applications and the projects and iTunes.

[4:34:30] Trustee McConchie (probable): You're always

[4:34:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): exhausted if you're on one

[4:34:32] Trustee McConchie (probable): end of the

[4:34:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): meeting or the other.

[4:34:33] Trustee McConchie (probable): It's the structure.

[4:34:34] Trustee McConchie (probable): It's like the trustees get the package a week before.

[4:34:37] Trustee McConchie (probable): And, you know, I work for a living.

[4:34:39] Trustee McConchie (probable): and uh no it's surprise so i'm not sure like i don't know what trustee could make a rational

[4:34:47] Trustee McConchie (probable): decision on some of these issues with given the time allotment it doesn't make any sense

[4:34:52] Trustee McConchie (probable): well

[4:34:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): we should never feel rushed i i'm absolutely um i

[4:34:57] Trustee McConchie (probable): don't just be it would be great if we if

[4:34:59] Trustee McConchie (probable): applicants were encouraged to contact trustees that would be awesome all

[4:35:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): right well we can talk

[4:35:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): about that next time so anyway the next meeting is march 25th uh i assume we'll have a special

[4:35:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): meeting between now and then uh with the and there also is a special meeting coming up on march 18th

[4:35:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): is it not um yes

[4:35:20] Voice 18: they're sorry uh chair patrick yes we have a special meeting on march 18th to

[4:35:26] Voice 18: discuss the land use bylaw review project okay uh it's one of these ones that we could not fit

[4:35:31] Voice 18: on the agenda so we've dedicated a full meeting to that all

[4:35:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): right that's good all right so this is is

[4:35:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): We do not rework any of the decisions that we have made today and so I remind you that to please speak to the two trustees that are remaining and do not talk about people and just issues and be brief, because we're exhausted, so I see Dale has his hand raised.

[4:36:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): Dale.

[4:36:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): Hi.

[4:36:07] Voice 19: You

[4:36:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): started to bring up an issue there in the public hearing so please proceed.

[4:36:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): Okay.

[4:36:15] Voice 19: This doesn't require any discussion. This is simply for, I guess, information purposes for the local trust committee and to make you aware of pending actions.

[4:36:27] Voice 19: directions. The question here, I had been in touch with the Ministry of Transportation and

[4:36:35] Voice 19: Infrastructure, and I'm reading from one of their documents. A highway safety and efficiency depends

[4:36:42] Voice 19: to a large extent upon the amount and type of roadside conflict with through traffic. Most of

[4:36:48] Voice 19: the conflict comes from traffic movements to and from connecting streets, businesses, residents,

[4:36:52] Voice 19: and other developments along the highway.

[4:36:55] Voice 19: Accordingly, section 62 and 69 of the Transportation Act

[4:36:59] Voice 19: allows for the control of access points

[4:37:01] Voice 19: to provide efficient and safe operation on the highway.

[4:37:05] Voice 19: They also ensure that the optimum use

[4:37:07] Voice 19: of the highway investments as a result,

[4:37:10] Voice 19: everyone expects the building of residential highways

[4:37:14] Voice 19: and side roads must apply for a permit.

[4:37:18] Voice 19: And that is the question that I have. And obviously, with the advent of the large driveway being accessed off of Otter Bay Road, which is one of the narrowest and the busiest roads in Pender Island, because there's no streetlights, no shoulders, no sidewalks, no pathways, and no bicycle lanes.

[4:37:44] Voice 19: And every time a ferry drops off or picks up people from Pender, there are people either walking on that road, bicycling on that road, and of course, all the vehicles for the ferries. And with the advent of the new ferry, there's going to be larger capacity.

[4:38:01] Voice 19: capacity therefore uh my my question here that approximately nine months ago it was identified

[4:38:09] Voice 19: to the local trust committee that there were concerns uh about the process by which the owners

[4:38:16] Voice 19: of the said property uh were granted rezoning permits for a concrete batch plant and a waste

[4:38:23] Voice 19: transfer facilities and now it appears as if there is according to the ministry of

[4:38:29] Voice 19: of highways and infrastructure,

[4:38:32] Voice 19: that there has been no permit granted

[4:38:35] Voice 19: for the construction of that highway.

[4:38:38] Voice 19: And considering the narrowness of the width of the road

[4:38:44] Voice 19: and how narrowed it is and how busy it is,

[4:38:46] Voice 19: is that a good application?

[4:38:48] Voice 19: So that is one aspect.

[4:38:51] Voice 19: And in concerns that Trustee Morrison has

[4:38:56] Voice 19: about cutting down trees,

[4:38:58] Voice 19: It was obviously, in taking a look at the site the other day, that there were a considerable number of trees cut down to make way for this driveway.

[4:39:06] Voice 19: In addition, approximately two years ago, it was identified at a meeting at the community hall of runoff from that particular property.

[4:39:15] Voice 19: And now with the advent of two businesses on there, the waste management and the country batch plant that wells at the drinking water, which serves the community hall, the epicenter, the library, the new to you, as well as a private residence of, and I won't mention the name there, but he's been identified before.

[4:39:41] Voice 19: and since the the property is on the west side of Bedwell Harbor Road and the water will flow

[4:39:54] Voice 19: downhill to the east side of Bedwell Harbor Road that it has impacts on all the residential

[4:40:03] Voice 19: properties along there. So that concludes, you know, my comment on that. And I have one other

[4:40:12] Voice 19: thing just as a follow up. On January the 20th of 2021, I sent an email to Trustee McConkie,

[4:40:25] Voice 19: trustee morrison uh trustee patrick and to robert uh kojima and that was um in relation to stvrs

[4:40:37] Voice 19: however as a result of that uh the only response i got back was from trustee mcconkey and uh we're

[4:40:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): actually post public hearing on the short-term vacation rentals right now dale now yeah no i

[4:40:51] Voice 19: I know this

[4:40:52] Voice 19: is not to do, this is with the response that I received back from Trustee

[4:40:58] Voice 19: McAulkey.

[4:40:59] Voice 19: He had interpreted the comments in my email that he felt that it was a, how did he put

[4:41:10] Voice 19: it in here?

[4:41:10] Voice 19: That it was a slanderous comment that I had made when in actual fact, I ask a question.

[4:41:18] Voice 19: Okay, you ask a question when you're trying to seek information. I was trying to seek information. There was no slanderous comment at all. And Trustee McConkie replied back to me Sunday, January the 31st at 9.11pm. And he said, Dale, thanks. I've sent your communication for a legal review. So my follow up is, I'm still waiting for the response from the legal review.

[4:41:44] Voice 19: view and that's all I have to say thank you very much thank

[4:41:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): you Dale anyone else that needs to

[4:41:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): address us in the second town hall here today oh good no thank you very much sorry we're very tired

[4:42:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): um it's been a long meeting and um I think we

[4:42:09] Trustee McConchie (probable): are to close the meeting yes

[4:42:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): uh I'll uh second that

[4:42:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): that motion to adjourn and call a vote.

[4:42:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): All those in favor were adjourned.

[4:42:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): So thank you everyone, it's exhausting

[4:42:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): and we will see you in the special meetings

[4:42:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): between now and then.

[4:42:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right, we'll see you, bye-bye.