Islands Trust Executive Committee regular meeting, March 17, 2021

[0:00:00] Trustee Busheikin: uh function happening

[0:00:03] Voice 10: and

[0:00:12] Voice 11: we're ready now lights camera okay

[0:00:14] Trustee Busheikin: okay thank you uh so uh welcome

[0:00:18] Trustee Busheikin: everyone and i call this meeting of the islands trust council regional planning committee to order

[0:00:24] Trustee Busheikin: and i'd like to begin by acknowledging that we are on uh coast salish territory that's territory of

[0:00:30] Trustee Busheikin: numerous First Nations and I would just like to say how grateful I am for the stewardship

[0:00:40] Trustee Busheikin: that those people have demonstrated over the millennia and the rich cultural heritage they

[0:00:50] Trustee Busheikin: bring to the islands. So thank you. We have an agenda before us. So any changes or additions

[0:01:00] Trustee Busheikin: to the agenda? Okay, hearing none, then I will suggest that we adopt the agenda by consent.

[0:01:06] Trustee Busheikin: So yep, okay. And just before we go any further, let me make sure I know who is here, who is just

[0:01:16] Trustee Busheikin: on the phone. So it certainly is, you know, so I know who is at the meeting. We've got

[0:01:29] Trustee Busheikin: trustee mod on the phone. We have trustee dogs on the phone. I guess that's it for trustees.

[0:01:42] Trustee Busheikin: Is there anyone else on the phone I haven't mentioned?

[0:01:47] Trustee Busheikin: Kate Louise?

[0:01:48] Trustee Busheikin: Well, yeah, but I see you.

[0:01:50] Trustee Busheikin: So you're kind of on the, but you're on the phone also.

[0:01:54] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, thanks.

[0:01:55] Trustee Busheikin: And then we have a lot of staff.

[0:01:56] Trustee Busheikin: So I just want to, I'll just mention that I'll welcome our staff.

[0:01:59] Trustee Busheikin: We've got Robert Barlow, who is the meeting host, and I believe the minute taker.

[0:02:05] Trustee Busheikin: And thank you.

[0:02:06] Trustee Busheikin: We have planning director, David Marler.

[0:02:10] Trustee Busheikin: we have regional planning manager um heather cower from the northern office we have our planner uh

[0:02:18] Trustee Busheikin: who serves this committee nor is it chadwick we have regional planning manager of the southern

[0:02:23] Trustee Busheikin: region robert kajima and i think that's it but that's great to be so well supported uh thank you

[0:02:33] Trustee Busheikin: So then let's go right into adoption of minutes. So we're at 4.1 because there's nothing,

[0:02:42] Trustee Busheikin: no business for three. Any changes to the minutes or comments?

[0:02:51] Trustee Busheikin: Then I will affirm we adopt the minutes or we approve the minutes by general consent.

[0:02:56] Trustee Busheikin: And then let's move on to the follow-up action list, 4.3, page eight on our package.

[0:03:01] Trustee Busheikin: and I'll invite staff to make any comments or updates and otherwise this is here for our

[0:03:09] Trustee Busheikin: information sure

[0:03:12] Voice 1: you don't want to just any

[0:03:14] Trustee Busheikin: staff comments I

[0:03:17] Voice 1: could yeah I just comment on it if you

[0:03:20] Voice 1: don't mind just looking yeah just looking through it most of the items listed here are complete

[0:03:29] Voice 1: there's there's a request here for staff to report on trust programs committee affordable

[0:03:34] Voice 1: affordable housing discussion at the next regional planning committee meeting so I think we'll plan

[0:03:39] Voice 1: that for May which is the next one before council looking further down I can't see the whole thing

[0:03:49] Voice 1: here yeah this is in progress as well the trust council add a training session on candidates

[0:03:55] Voice 1: production issues and regulations to its continuous lending plan so I said we would

[0:04:00] Voice 1: bring that to council so should probably do that in June trust council

[0:04:03] Voice 1: so it's a little bit smaller there we go I wonder

[0:04:10] Trustee Busheikin: if that if I may if that could go to executive

[0:04:13] Trustee Busheikin: committee because I think that they're responsible for that yeah

[0:04:18] Voice 1: make sure to take it to executive

[0:04:20] Voice 1: and then

[0:04:20] Voice 1: through them for council yeah okay

[0:04:23] Trustee Busheikin: thanks that's

[0:04:26] Voice 1: it for the follow-up action list

[0:04:27] Voice 1: okay

[0:04:28] Trustee Busheikin: any questions thank you those were the two questions I had so they're answered so thank you

[0:04:35] Trustee Busheikin: uh so then we can go um right into one of i think the two main pieces of business today

[0:04:44] Trustee Busheikin: and that is the application processing services uh and i will invite um planner chadwick i believe

[0:04:55] Trustee Busheikin: would be the right person to uh introduce us to this uh

[0:05:01] Voice 8: yeah thank you uh chair so we've got

[0:05:04] Voice 8: But before you request for decisions we're bringing back the application processing servicing policy with the attached model fee by law and model development application information by law, and recommending that the RPC endorsed the application processing

[0:05:21] Voice 8: processing services bylaw and attachments, and that the RPC approve the attached request

[0:05:30] Voice 8: for decision and send it along with the policy and the attached model fee bylaw and DAI bylaw.

[0:05:39] Voice 8: So there have been a number of different small changes and larger changes that have been

[0:05:48] Voice 8: made over the period of I guess the last year or so. And so we're coming forward with the

[0:05:55] Voice 8: some additional changes that were requested by the RPC at the February 12th meeting.

[0:06:03] Voice 8: And so I'll just indicate a few of the changes that have been made to the policy.

[0:06:10] Voice 8: policy. So that includes the addition of adding the review of archaeological data to the list

[0:06:20] Voice 8: of things that are looked at. Just doing some minor changes, just again to make it more

[0:06:31] Voice 8: consistent and readable. So that includes combining a couple of the sections in there.

[0:06:36] Voice 8: one of the the larger changes that is also reflected in the model fee bylaw

[0:06:41] Voice 8: is the definition of community benefit so a new definition was added and that definition

[0:06:51] Voice 8: well I guess I'll just read it out where the model fee bylaw permits reduced fees for community

[0:06:58] Voice 8: benefit the local trust committee fees bylaw must specify the actual community benefit to which the

[0:07:05] Voice 8: the fee applies and should be supported by policies

[0:07:09] Voice 8: in the official community plan

[0:07:10] Voice 8: on what are considered amenities to the community.

[0:07:13] Voice 8: So instead of defining it specifically,

[0:07:17] Voice 8: we found that the better approach may be

[0:07:20] Voice 8: just to have each LTC sort of identify

[0:07:24] Voice 8: what those community benefits are

[0:07:26] Voice 8: and why this is important is because it relates

[0:07:30] Voice 8: to a reduced fee for applications

[0:07:33] Voice 8: related to community benefit some changes were made to the definition of general service costs

[0:07:41] Voice 8: just to more more clearly specify what those costs are and then with respect to the changes

[0:07:50] Voice 8: made to the model fee bylaw there there were a few changes that are are listed there

[0:08:06] Voice 8: they include oh and also I provided a little bit of you know more background on some of the

[0:08:12] Voice 8: questions that were raised related to fee to have the fee estimates so we did we had at one point

[0:08:18] Voice 8: provided a breakdown of fees which was which was took a bit of time a number of staff were involved

[0:08:24] Voice 8: in identifying those and so that the fee schedule was attached to this to give you a sense of that

[0:08:31] Voice 8: The other thing that is that is pointed out here is that the fee estimates that we have currently

[0:08:37] Voice 8: in the model fee by by law they may change because because we do we are still tracking

[0:08:43] Voice 8: the time that it takes to process applications and that's you know part of the the local planning

[0:08:53] Voice 8: services review so that process still continues and because of covid you know some you know there

[0:08:59] Voice 8: have been some shifts in our costs specifically related to to travel so just kind of putting that

[0:09:05] Voice 8: out there that um while we do have model fees in the model fee bylaw that are based on you know

[0:09:11] Voice 8: our best knowledge um on on what those costs have been in the past um those those fees could change

[0:09:20] Voice 8: um so the the other so the the change the specific changes that were made in the model fee bylaw

[0:09:28] Voice 8: include identifying well identifying that the an objective for the model fee by law is to reflect

[0:09:39] Voice 8: cost recovery updated the definitions as indicated in the policy so the general service costs and

[0:09:49] Voice 8: and the community benefit definition.

[0:09:54] Voice 8: We did reduce the fee for the renewal of TUPs

[0:10:05] Voice 8: for community benefit,

[0:10:07] Voice 8: a reduction to the siting and use permit amount.

[0:10:12] Voice 8: And then the one point that was being discussed

[0:10:16] Voice 8: last meeting and and and it's something that sort of staff are making a bit of a recommendation and

[0:10:22] Voice 8: um encouraging further discussion on is um um we had previously identified that the that there

[0:10:29] Voice 8: would be a change in annual or the annual annual fee uh increase would be based on the community

[0:10:37] Voice 8: canadian consumer price index um and there were some um questions around whether that was the

[0:10:45] Voice 8: best approach and if that actually reflects the actual costs of increase. So we sort of looked

[0:10:57] Voice 8: into that and because the actual cost of increase would fluctuate over time because of salary

[0:11:06] Voice 8: increases that happen on different years and different aspects, we are suggesting that a

[0:11:14] Voice 8: percentage be identified for that increase, which is a bit of a fraction of actual costs

[0:11:27] Voice 8: to increases in the Islands Trust and also reflects the Canadian Consumer Price Index.

[0:11:36] Voice 8: so we're suggesting 2% that we put in a 2% increase annually. There haven't been many

[0:11:46] Voice 8: changes made to the Model Development Approval Information By-law since February or since last

[0:11:59] Voice 8: year. So just minor, again, just minor cleaning up changes. So those are, that's basically the

[0:12:08] Voice 8: overview there of what we've done. And so I'll just open up for questions and discussion.

[0:12:17] Voice 8: Thank

[0:12:17] Trustee Busheikin: you. I will do that. I need to run downstairs for 30 seconds. I actually forgot

[0:12:25] Trustee Busheikin: got to put my hearing aids in and I'm struggling here. Well, I'll just invite David Maude to take

[0:12:32] Trustee Busheikin: over the chairing for 30 seconds. He's the vice chair. I think he can do it from the phone and

[0:12:36] Trustee Busheikin: I'll be right back. Don't say anything super important without me.

[0:12:41] Trustee Maude: Well, that's no fun. All

[0:12:43] Trustee Maude: right. So does anybody have any questions?

[0:12:50] Trustee Stamford: I do. Go ahead. David can't hear us, can he?

[0:12:54] Trustee Stamford: yeah or he can't see us he can hear us let's

[0:12:58] Trustee Maude: see yes so

[0:13:00] Trustee Stamford: i have a question and so does trustee

[0:13:03] Trustee Stamford: wolverton okay

[0:13:04] Trustee Maude: go ahead trustee stanford um

[0:13:06] Trustee Stamford: i'm just wondering with the um two percent increase

[0:13:11] Trustee Stamford: uh um is this how other um planning bodies uh adjust for costs to have you done any comparison

[0:13:20] Trustee Stamford: person on Nanaimo or any regional districts or anything like that.

[0:13:28] Voice 8: I'm not, I'm not sure, David, have you, have you,

[0:13:31] Voice 8: are you familiar with how other other local governments deal with that

[0:13:37] Voice 8: increase?

[0:13:39] Voice 1: No, I haven't.

[0:13:40] Voice 1: I haven't seen an automatic increase in fee bylaw.

[0:13:45] Voice 1: I think they would just do it as a review on a regular basis and increase

[0:13:51] Voice 1: the fees accordingly.

[0:13:52] Voice 1: The 2%, as Nerissa said, is over the last collective agreement, that was the annual increase on the union agreement, was 2% on April 1st of each year.

[0:14:08] Voice 1: I don't know what the next agreement is going to be. That agreement ends, I think this is the last increase, April 1st of this year.

[0:14:16] Voice 1: But I don't know what next year is going to be. So they're negotiating that with the government.

[0:14:22] Voice 1: And so you kind of offset that with turnover. So when we have new staff coming in, they started at a lower rate than the top of the scale. There's a five-step system in place. So they started roughly 10% below their maximum pay.

[0:14:40] Voice 1: so when you add all that up new people coming in um existing staff going up the steps and the union

[0:14:47] Voice 1: increases uh the two percent is pretty close it might be a little bit more i'm not sure uh so

[0:14:55] Voice 1: that's one way to look at it the other is this is a model fee bylaw and um you know it would be

[0:15:01] Voice 1: appropriate on at least once a term once every four years to have a look at it and can adjust

[0:15:08] Voice 1: just that number accordingly. So if we see that the 2% increase is starting to fall behind,

[0:15:14] Voice 1: you can certainly update it.

[0:15:17] Trustee Stamford: Okay, thank you.

[0:15:24] Trustee Busheikin: Yeah, Trustee Wilberton?

[0:15:27] Voice 7: Yes, I just, Nerissa had a question on page 11 of the package where

[0:15:32] Voice 7: it says exceptions to total estimates are made for temporary use permit applications

[0:15:36] Voice 7: that provide community benefit and i'm i'm wondering whether we need to specify temporary

[0:15:44] Voice 7: use permits or because there are other applications that also might be considered yeah

[0:15:53] Voice 1: i could speak

[0:15:54] Voice 1: to that the the model fee by law does say that and it's probably not clear here in the report

[0:16:00] Voice 1: so we might want to just update whatever we're sending to council to be clear that the community

[0:16:05] Voice 1: benefit is only in relation to temporary use permits and

[0:16:11] Voice 7: is that what we're saying that's

[0:16:15] Voice 1: my understanding but if you want something different let us know yeah

[0:16:19] Voice 8: that's what the

[0:16:19] Voice 8: discussion has been uh to this point um i mean we can certainly yeah entertain um some other ideas

[0:16:28] Voice 8: yeah okay

[0:16:29] Voice 7: i'm thinking of other rezonings that might uh result in a community benefit

[0:16:35] Voice 7: if

[0:16:38] Trustee Busheikin: i may i um i think that um and i think this is something that everyone's going to struggle with

[0:16:44] Trustee Busheikin: um it's confusing when um there's two different there's really two different things there's this

[0:16:50] Trustee Busheikin: policy which is specifically or thus far has been specifically for temporary use permits that

[0:16:55] Trustee Busheikin: there's two versions one uh that would have community benefit and therefore cost less as

[0:17:03] Trustee Busheikin: just for temporary use permits but for rezonings there's a different setup which is that applicants

[0:17:09] Trustee Busheikin: can apply to executive committee for sponsorship if there's community benefit and those are two

[0:17:16] Trustee Busheikin: separate things and I think it is something to be really clear when we bring it to council because

[0:17:20] Trustee Busheikin: I think all of us it becomes confusing and the fee bylaw itself is is only in terms of

[0:17:31] Trustee Busheikin: consideration of lower fees for community benefit we're thus far have only looked at a very narrow

[0:17:38] Trustee Busheikin: part of what we're doing which is tups okay um and then i'll go to planner chadwick and then

[0:17:46] Trustee Busheikin: trustee peterson um

[0:17:47] Voice 8: yeah i i just wanted to add with respect to um fees fee sponsorship so that

[0:17:52] Voice 8: that is definitely the the avenue for um for rezonings um and and you know potentially other

[0:17:59] Voice 8: applications as well. And the fee sponsorship by law, it applies specifically to non-profit

[0:18:09] Voice 8: agencies or organizations, institutions supported by taxpayers seeking to provide community benefit

[0:18:16] Voice 8: or others seeking to implement specific objectives for an official community plan,

[0:18:25] Voice 8: and objectives of the official community plan

[0:18:28] Voice 8: with community benefits.

[0:18:30] Voice 8: So that's what it applies to currently.

[0:18:34] Voice 8: And I mean, there could be the opportunity to revisit that,

[0:18:39] Voice 8: what is currently a bit,

[0:18:43] Voice 8: who's currently able to access a sponsorship.

[0:18:47] Voice 8: Okay, and

[0:18:49] Trustee Busheikin: I see Director Marler,

[0:18:51] Trustee Busheikin: Tim also wanted to speak,

[0:18:53] Trustee Busheikin: David, is this specifically to clarify this question?

[0:18:56] Voice 1: It is.

[0:18:57] Voice 1: I just wanted to point out that 4.5 of the policy

[0:19:02] Voice 1: clarifies that the community benefit

[0:19:04] Voice 1: is for temporary use permits.

[0:19:06] Voice 1: So the policy specifies that

[0:19:08] Voice 1: and the model fee by-law does as well.

[0:19:12] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, thank you.

[0:19:14] Trustee Busheikin: Trustee Peterson.

[0:19:17] Voice 16: Thank you.

[0:19:18] Voice 16: So I'm just curious about the community benefit.

[0:19:22] Voice 16: And so I see that the report is saying that the OCP should address that in the LTC as a way of defining rather than us defining through the committee.

[0:19:37] Voice 16: And then in terms of what we're just talking about with the EC, the fee of sponsorship thing for community benefit, it's just a process question.

[0:19:52] Voice 16: does how does EC evaluate that and is that based on what's in the LTC's OCP or does EC have

[0:20:03] Voice 16: some parameters around that I'm just I'm curious because it

[0:20:07] Voice 16: it'd be nice if that sort of thing all aligns that would seem smoother but

[0:20:13] Voice 1: yeah

[0:20:13] Voice 16: thank you uh yeah thank

[0:20:16] Voice 1: you through the chair um so council policy 4113 actually outlines the

[0:20:22] Voice 1: criteria so as Nerissa said it's for non-profit or taxpayer-funded organizations and it's for

[0:20:34] Voice 1: something that is of value to the community so affordable housing or it could be park or

[0:20:40] Voice 1: we've had

[0:20:42] Voice 1: daycares things like that so normally what would happen is those people would apply

[0:20:47] Voice 1: apply pay the fee and then they would submit a form to the executive committee requesting

[0:20:53] Voice 1: sponsorship and then the executive committee can adjudicate whether or not it believes that it's

[0:20:58] Voice 1: it should be providing that sponsorship

[0:21:00] Voice 16: because i just have a quick follow-up on that just because

[0:21:06] Voice 16: so what we're saying then is that is that for that sponsorship the community benefit is

[0:21:13] Voice 16: is um is again it's it's as uh based on this non-profit status and then i mean are there any

[0:21:23] Voice 16: further guidelines in that policy or is it just basically the executives call to say yeah that

[0:21:30] Voice 16: sounds like a good community benefit or i'm just it's just about these definitions that i'm curious

[0:21:36] Voice 16: so

[0:21:36] Voice 1: yeah the the policy um sets out i can send a link to it if you'd like to see it

[0:21:44] Voice 1: it's pretty wide open it would not be tied back to community benefit as defined by the local

[0:21:52] Voice 1: trust committee it simply says where an applicant is a non-profit agency organization seeking to

[0:21:59] Voice 1: establish expand or modify a facility for the benefit of the community at large and consistent

[0:22:05] Voice 1: with goals in the official community plan and where the applicant is establishing an institution

[0:22:11] Voice 1: supported by taxpayers the same kind of thing there and they need to be a registered for profit

[0:22:20] Voice 1: sorry a non-profit organization or taxpayer funded so this would not apply to for-profit corporations

[0:22:29] Voice 1: landowners that are not non-profit agencies or somebody just can't afford the cost of the

[0:22:34] Voice 1: application that's not what this is for and the executive committee has asked is well

[0:22:40] Voice 1: well, I haven't actually asked this yet,

[0:22:42] Voice 1: but we've indicated that they may want to revisit this policy

[0:22:46] Voice 1: to look at some other aspects that are not covered by it.

[0:22:51] Voice 1: But I can send it to you if you'd like to have a look at it.

[0:22:55] Voice 1: Thank

[0:22:55] Trustee Busheikin: you.

[0:22:56] Trustee Busheikin: And I'll go to Trustee Wolverton and just want to focus.

[0:23:01] Trustee Busheikin: That's really important for us to know about that.

[0:23:04] Trustee Busheikin: But for today, ideally, we want to come to an agreement

[0:23:08] Trustee Busheikin: about what's in this policy

[0:23:09] Trustee Busheikin: around the temporary use permit fees.

[0:23:12] Trustee Busheikin: I'll go back to Trustee Wolverton.

[0:23:15] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, it just, the

[0:23:17] Voice 7: last time we spoke,

[0:23:20] Voice 7: we were looking at, I'm looking at page 16

[0:23:23] Voice 7: and we were talking about the public hearing

[0:23:26] Voice 7: and community information meeting

[0:23:28] Voice 7: and that phrase application fee required.

[0:23:32] Voice 7: And we talked about clarifying that,

[0:23:36] Voice 7: that it is included in the initial application and

[0:23:41] Voice 10: and then

[0:23:42] Voice 7: in number two in the next page

[0:23:44] Voice 7: extraordinary processing fees um there i think we could say additional fees are required

[0:23:51] Voice 7: it's just so that people understand that for uh 1.2 3 and 4 it's all covered in

[0:23:59] Voice 7: in their initial application fee correct

[0:24:02] Voice 1: yes and so 1.2 says application fee required

[0:24:08] Voice 1: 1.3 says application fee required, 1.4 says the same thing. Is there

[0:24:13] Voice 1: something you wanted

[0:24:14] Voice 1: changed in that? Is that confusing? It's confusing. It

[0:24:18] Voice 7: sounds like another fee is required

[0:24:20] Voice 7: for 1.3 and 1.4.

[0:24:23] Voice 1: Right. Okay. What's a good

[0:24:28] Voice 1: way to deal with that?

[0:24:29] Voice 7: You could say public hearing

[0:24:32] Voice 7: during the application fee covers this,

[0:24:35] Voice 7: or the same with the community information.

[0:24:40] Voice 7: But for number two,

[0:24:41] Voice 7: you might wanna say additional fees are required.

[0:24:45] Voice 7: How

[0:24:45] Voice 1: about, could we change 1.2, 1.3, and 1.4,

[0:24:51] Voice 1: instead of saying application fee required,

[0:24:53] Voice 1: say included in the application fee?

[0:24:57] Voice 7: Yeah, yeah.

[0:24:58] Voice 1: Okay, so let's change that.

[0:25:00] Voice 1: You got that, Nerissa?

[0:25:00] Voice 1: so okay yeah

[0:25:04] Voice 7: it's just it was confusing last time and we talked about it but i i guess we didn't

[0:25:09] Voice 7: come to a an agreement on what we would say okay

[0:25:11] Voice 1: all right that does that address it for you yep

[0:25:14] Voice 1: okay thanks just

[0:25:16] Trustee Busheikin: putting myself on the speaker's list like additionally and thanks for catching

[0:25:19] Trustee Busheikin: that um additionally i'm thinking in somewhere in two um to be very clear that this is requiring

[0:25:29] Trustee Busheikin: requiring fees additional to the application fee.

[0:25:33] Trustee Busheikin: It says applicants are responsible for paying fees for extraordinary processing services.

[0:25:38] Trustee Busheikin: But if you're an applicant who maybe wasn't a professional, it's hard to understand.

[0:25:43] Trustee Busheikin: So I'm wondering if somewhere there, even just in the last sentence under the, in the

[0:25:49] Trustee Busheikin: preamble of number two, applicants are responsible for paying additional fees or paying fees

[0:25:58] Trustee Busheikin: Fees for extraordinary processing services, comma, not covered in the initial application fee, something like that.

[0:26:09] Voice 1: Okay, let me just have a look.

[0:26:15] Voice 1: This says applicants are responsible for paying fees for extraordinary.

[0:26:19] Voice 1: So do you want to change that to applicants are responsible for paying,

[0:26:22] Voice 1: we want to say um fees to cover the cost or the full cost for extraordinary processing services

[0:26:32] Voice 1: um how

[0:26:36] Trustee Busheikin: about if we just and it is hard to wordsmith on the fly in the middle of a meeting

[0:26:41] Trustee Busheikin: but something like after services just comma um above and beyond the initial application fee

[0:26:50] Trustee Busheikin: so

[0:26:51] Voice 1: that's repeating the first sentence um

[0:26:55] Trustee Busheikin: beyond the standard processing services okay um

[0:27:01] Trustee Busheikin: i guess it's just there's like like standard processing services i can imagine just going

[0:27:08] Trustee Busheikin: right through someone's head um we kind of you know not everyone's used to the language so maybe

[0:27:15] Trustee Busheikin: um you know i think most people are like there's a fee i paid the fee and now i have to pay another

[0:27:23] Trustee Busheikin: other fee like it's there's just yeah that's what i'm looking for i guess is that really clarity of

[0:27:29] Trustee Busheikin: we talk about an application fee and so could we talk about it

[0:27:34] Trustee Busheikin: again and i know it's we don't want to make this longer um

[0:27:39] Voice 1: yeah i'm just trying

[0:27:44] Trustee Busheikin: to figure out what's

[0:27:44] Voice 1: missing um

[0:27:46] Trustee Busheikin: i think what's missing is just saying these are this you will have to pay something

[0:27:50] Trustee Busheikin: above and beyond the initial application fee yeah

[0:27:53] Voice 1: okay yeah

[0:27:55] Voice 16: if i may chair of a suggestion

[0:27:58] Voice 16: see if it addresses you so what if we say applicants are responsible for paying additional

[0:28:05] Voice 16: fees for extraordinary processing services does that get to where you're talking about i think

[0:28:10] Voice 16: that helps yeah if we put additional in there yeah okay between

[0:28:16] Voice 16: paying and fees

[0:28:21] Voice 4: yeah

[0:28:24] Voice 1: okay we can do that

[0:28:25] Voice 4: thanks good all right

[0:28:31] Trustee Busheikin: okay um i am i'd like to suggest that because i

[0:28:36] Trustee Busheikin: have a few comments myself that we iron out or make sure that we're in agreement on the language

[0:28:41] Trustee Busheikin: around the community benefit for this is just for the temporary use permits and it's on page 22

[0:28:49] Trustee Busheikin: too um and i'm going to speak to that because i i was i have some comments um and i i like the

[0:28:57] Trustee Busheikin: idea of pointing to the ocp but i i don't know i mean i know that our cp on devon does not have

[0:29:02] Trustee Busheikin: any definition of community benefit or amenity so then to make this work ocps would all have to be

[0:29:08] Trustee Busheikin: updated and i don't think it's that that big of an issue in that you know i don't know how different

[0:29:14] Trustee Busheikin: islands use temporary use permits but i think it's often very targeted and it's you need a policy

[0:29:19] Trustee Busheikin: policy to enable a temporary use permit. So to me, it's about making sure within that if you say temporary use permits can be used for, you know, seasonal commercial activities, that's where you, you decide how much you charge and you decide what activities would be under the rubric of community benefit.

[0:29:43] Trustee Busheikin: benefit. And I'm wondering if, I mean, yeah, like, I just don't see this being a thing that's going

[0:29:50] Trustee Busheikin: to make a huge difference to the overall income of the trust. It's really very targeted. So I'm

[0:29:55] Trustee Busheikin: wondering if we could just leave it more general. I liked some of the language I heard from the

[0:29:59] Trustee Busheikin: sponsorship.

[0:30:00] Trustee Busheikin: which is just uh something of value to the community that is consistent with goals in the

[0:30:05] Trustee Busheikin: official community plan and then we don't have to open up our ocps to put in policies so could i

[0:30:11] Voice 1: yeah yeah so the concern i have is that your fee by law has to be ascertainable so that is we we

[0:30:20] Voice 1: don't have we can't adjudicate we can't come to a trust committee and say hey does this application

[0:30:27] Voice 1: meet what you think is a community benefit so staff and the landowners should be able to look

[0:30:34] Voice 1: at your fee by law look at what they're proposing and understand exactly which fee

[0:30:38] Voice 1: and how much they have to pay for it so that's why it says here you would have to

[0:30:44] Voice 1: clearly define what community benefit is and the link to the official community plan this is for

[0:30:51] Voice 1: temporary use permits only. So you have to define your temporary use permits in your official

[0:30:58] Voice 1: community plan and what you would be issuing them for. So there's your opportunity to articulate

[0:31:05] Voice 1: what you're trying to do. So if you would like to encourage, let's just say food trucks as an

[0:31:12] Voice 1: example, and you want to issue temporary use permits for a food truck, and you can identify

[0:31:16] Voice 1: that in the statement of your TUP, you can say food trucks for community benefit, and we would

[0:31:24] Voice 1: like to have these in the summer on the islands, and the purpose of this temporary use permit

[0:31:29] Voice 1: is to allow that to happen. So there's the link, and then you could establish a fee

[0:31:36] Voice 1: that would be something less for that particular use. So that's the intent. I don't think,

[0:31:43] Voice 1: I don't, it would not work to have to leave it to some ambiguous or some statement that's open to

[0:31:52] Voice 1: interpretation. The fee bylaw would then be challenged and probably would not hold up in

[0:31:59] Voice 1: court.

[0:32:01] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you. And I'll just comment and then I'll go to you, Tim. Yeah, that's, thank you. I

[0:32:06] Trustee Busheikin: wasn't thinking that it should be done application by application. That would be not good. But I was

[0:32:11] Trustee Busheikin: thinking that it would be done when a fees bylaw was created and when ocp policies were made to

[0:32:17] Trustee Busheikin: enable temporary use permits so i think what you're saying is that is exactly what would happen

[0:32:20] Trustee Busheikin: is that when a an ltc says okay yeah we want to have we want to start having tups used for

[0:32:27] Trustee Busheikin: um food trucks and um i don't know i'll make something up gravel pits even though i don't

[0:32:32] Trustee Busheikin: think that makes sense we'd say well the gravel pit really like isn't exactly a community benefit

[0:32:37] Trustee Busheikin: it's industrial use so that doesn't come but the food trucks local employment food security

[0:32:42] Trustee Busheikin: and then they they'd make the policy and that would be that and it wouldn't come down is that

[0:32:47] Trustee Busheikin: what i'm hearing yeah

[0:32:48] Voice 1: and and also in the um the model bylaw um it does say small scale and the

[0:32:55] Voice 1: model fee bylaw has a square footage as an example of what that would look like okay

[0:33:00] Trustee Busheikin: thanks uh trustee

[0:33:02] Voice 16: Peterson I'm just wondering if it would make sense in terms of rolling this out to LTCs

[0:33:10] Voice 16: you know to to make a note on the the TEP portion that that goes out to LTCs you know

[0:33:19] Voice 16: sort of reminding the LTCs that they'll need to define those community benefits as part of

[0:33:26] Voice 16: implementing the that part of the policy just something so that you know we don't get into a

[0:33:32] Voice 16: situation where like you say where you've got applications with no policy to back it up

[0:33:40] Voice 1: yeah yeah uh it is here actually there is a note under application processing fee we could

[0:33:48] Voice 1: probably do something further down as well uh but this essentially says that i'm

[0:33:55] Voice 16: just thinking you

[0:33:55] Voice 16: know to just sort of remind ltcs as they're considering rolling it out or whatever yeah

[0:34:00] Voice 16: Yeah.

[0:34:02] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you. Yeah. And I would. Yeah, because when I read it, I thought, oh, well, I actually went to our OCP and it's like, oh, we don't have a definition.

[0:34:08] Trustee Busheikin: Oh, we need to put a

[0:34:09] Trustee Busheikin: definition in under definitions. So maybe an extra sentence to explain what you just explained that put my mind at ease on that.

[0:34:18] Voice 1: OK, thanks.

[0:34:22] Trustee Busheikin: So are there any other comments or concerns about the community benefit?

[0:34:25] Trustee Busheikin: Yeah, go ahead, Jane.

[0:34:27] Trustee Busheikin: Sorry, not community benefit.

[0:34:29] Trustee Busheikin: It was

[0:34:29] Voice 7: just one other.

[0:34:30] Trustee Busheikin: And anyone on the phone?

[0:34:34] Trustee Busheikin: Okay.

[0:34:34] Trustee Busheikin: Are

[0:34:35] Voice 11: we using the hand signals?

[0:34:38] Voice 11: I think Laura and

[0:34:40] Voice 11: myself have had our hands up.

[0:34:41] Trustee Busheikin: Sorry.

[0:34:42] Trustee Busheikin: I guess we should, as I have been advised, that that is the best way to do it.

[0:34:48] Trustee Busheikin: And it's just a matter of training myself because apparently it puts them in order.

[0:34:53] Trustee Busheikin: So I'm sorry about that.

[0:34:54] Trustee Busheikin: and I'll keep that window open and feel free to keep reminding me still on a learning curve so

[0:35:00] Trustee Busheikin: go ahead case yeah

[0:35:06] Voice 11: I had a number of comments on the fee bylaw and I've got a few and some of them

[0:35:14] Voice 11: are comments and some of them are suggestions the first one is on in the opening on the first

[0:35:20] Voice 11: page of the bylaw it was

[0:35:23] Trustee Busheikin: in the package page uh

[0:35:25] Voice 11: okay i'm a page uh okay i hold on a second

[0:35:29] Voice 11: i printed

[0:35:30] Voice 11: out 21 21 okay thanks thank you

[0:35:34] Voice 11: i'm using a different yeah the whereas clause it says

[0:35:37] Voice 11: they're uh uh imposed fees for a license under that act but i it sort of reads as if the fees

[0:35:45] Voice 11: are about a license fee and isn't it in terms of the cannabis and control and licensing act

[0:35:53] Voice 11: we're talking about a review it's a fee for a review a comment's being made so it's just a

[0:35:59] Voice 11: wording was just sort of implied it was a license fee and i don't think we issue licensing or can

[0:36:05] Voice 11: we issue license fees for a business yeah

[0:36:08] Voice 1: okay through the chair where it says impose fee for

[0:36:12] Voice 1: for a license under the Act,

[0:36:13] Voice 1: we can change that to impose fee for review

[0:36:17] Voice 1: of a license under the Act.

[0:36:18] Voice 11: Yeah, yeah, it just sounded like you had that capacity

[0:36:22] Voice 11: and I wasn't sure about that.

[0:36:23] Voice 1: Yeah.

[0:36:24] Voice 11: Then on the next page,

[0:36:27] Voice 11: under the definition of application processing fee.

[0:36:33] Voice 1: Okay, just a second, sorry.

[0:36:35] Voice 1: Next

[0:36:36] Voice 11: page, yeah.

[0:36:38] Voice 11: I should have, I'm working off a printed off document.

[0:36:41] Voice 11: it says the total amount payable to the island's trust in respect of any application it almost

[0:36:47] Voice 11: reads as if it includes the extraordinary cost the total amount payable because that includes

[0:36:54] Voice 11: an extraordinary cost i just wondered about that is it just limited to the initial application fee

[0:37:02] Voice 11: because that's what this the application processing fee is the initial application right

[0:37:07] Voice 11: and then there's the extraordinary so when it says total payable um i don't know maybe i'm being too

[0:37:15] Voice 11: um pick a union about this but i just wondered about that if people are comfortable

[0:37:22] Voice 11: yeah

[0:37:23] Voice 1: i think i'm comfortable with it because this is the

[0:37:26] Voice 1: wording from the existing bylaw

[0:37:28] Voice 1: it hasn't caused

[0:37:29] Voice 1: any problems for us yeah okay

[0:37:30] Voice 11: okay fair enough um the next one definition

[0:37:35] Voice 11: and community benefit at the ending words or amenity is not really needed I believe because

[0:37:42] Voice 11: it's already defined as an amenity yeah

[0:37:46] Voice 1: we can delete that yeah it just needs to be deleted

[0:37:50] Voice 1: so sorry I just want to maybe through the chair make sure everybody's agreeing

[0:37:56] Voice 1: so it's suggesting that we remove our amenity at the end so we just end that with benefits so

[0:38:02] Voice 1: is that okay all right

[0:38:04] Trustee Busheikin: everyone's fine yeah yeah

[0:38:06] Voice 11: yeah and then uh okay where's the next one

[0:38:17] Voice 11: oh this this is a question on the definition of estimated direct costs which is on the next page

[0:38:24] Voice 11: i believe oh no there it is there sorry no it is i'm working off it yeah it's it says the uh

[0:38:31] Voice 11: island trust estimate but we've defined island trust as a director so that mean that the director

[0:38:37] Voice 11: The director then is estimating the fees.

[0:38:41] Voice 11: That's just sort of an impact by the definition.

[0:38:44] Voice 11: I'm assuming that's intended, but I wasn't sure.

[0:38:46] Voice 1: That is intended, yeah.

[0:38:48] Voice 11: Okay, okay, fair enough.

[0:38:53] Voice 11: And that's throughout the whole by-law

[0:38:55] Voice 11: down Island Trust just means the director, fair enough.

[0:38:58] Voice 11: Yeah,

[0:38:58] Voice 1: sorry, the reason we use that is

[0:39:00] Voice 1: because it says director or authorized representative.

[0:39:03] Voice 11: Okay, okay.

[0:39:04] Voice 1: So it's just simply to say Island's trust

[0:39:06] Voice 1: and keep repeating that.

[0:39:07] Voice 1: Okay.

[0:39:08] Voice 11: Next one is section 3.1. And this is one where I try, if you look at 3.1, and you look at section four, I tried to provide a link between the two. And what I was thinking was that in 3.1, in after in the word in the amount shown in column two, comma, subject to section four, because that section four, then is the

[0:39:38] Voice 11: is where is it now is the uh 20 surcharge so just linking the fee with the surcharge that you know

[0:39:49] Voice 11: there is a subject to so you it draws it in so what i'm suggesting is after caught the words

[0:39:58] Voice 11: column two comma put in subject to section four and then in subjects uh four section four i mean

[0:40:07] Voice 11: make a reference to section 3.1 that the race in 3.1 are subject to a 20 surcharge so just

[0:40:18] Voice 11: creating the the loop between the two sections okay

[0:40:23] Voice 1: through the chair i got no concerns that

[0:40:25] Voice 1: it's probably not a bad idea and

[0:40:30] Trustee Busheikin: just anyone speak up if you've got any concerns just verbally

[0:40:34] Trustee Busheikin: jump in there okay um

[0:40:37] Voice 11: then next one is uh okay the next comment i had was on section five

[0:40:51] Voice 11: but this com this section said the total application processing fee must be received

[0:41:02] Voice 11: before the processing of the application so that's just talking about the process initial

[0:41:08] Voice 11: application only so that works as long as it the definition of that term doesn't include the

[0:41:13] Voice 11: extraordinary that was just a comment I had yeah

[0:41:16] Voice 1: that's correct it does yeah

[0:41:18] Voice 11: good yeah okay next

[0:41:20] Voice 11: one's 5.3 and here's where I didn't quite understand the timing of of of things the

[0:41:27] Voice 11: question I had was what's the difference between before staff undertakes any planning work in

[0:41:34] Voice 11: section 5.3 and has been designated to the planner and section 5.4 and 5.5

[0:41:42] Voice 11: so it just didn't understand how that the timing of things yeah

[0:41:49] Voice 1: it's a bit of a tough one there and

[0:41:51] Voice 1: yeah the idea is not to clean that up it's better uh the intent of the first one is if somebody

[0:41:57] Voice 1: makes the application we've done no work on it uh so even if it's on the planner's desk but the

[0:42:02] Voice 1: planner hasn't opened it or started to spend time or record any time against it uh hasn't started

[0:42:08] Voice 1: drafting report or you know talking to other planners about it then they can

[0:42:14] Voice 1: get everything back except $100 so really what they're paying for is the

[0:42:19] Voice 1: clerk's time to open the file and put it on the planners desk essentially 5.4

[0:42:26] Voice 1: talks about what happens once work actually has begun so the planner has

[0:42:31] Voice 1: started to work on it has picked the file up and started to think about it so

[0:42:36] Voice 1: So at that point, you can't get,

[0:42:39] Voice 1: there's a higher penalty for withdrawing the application.

[0:42:43] Voice 11: So we're in 5.4, it says,

[0:42:46] Voice 11: once the file has been designated,

[0:42:48] Voice 11: it's not designation and it's really undertaken work then.

[0:42:52] Voice 1: Yeah, maybe

[0:42:53] Voice 1: Nerissa, what do you think

[0:42:55] Voice 1: if we change that to file has been opened by the plow?

[0:43:01] Voice 1: What's the word for it?

[0:43:02] Voice 1: Work has begun or something like that.

[0:43:05] Voice 1: Yeah,

[0:43:05] Voice 8: I mean, I mean, what I would suggest is, like, I think designated to me works because it's hard to identify, you know, the point at which the planner has begun work on the files.

[0:43:23] Voice 8: else so that's what

[0:43:24] Voice 8: i'd be inclined to say if we stick to has been designated because our process

[0:43:29] Voice 8: is that before it hits the planner's desk it does go through uh a couple of filters um before it

[0:43:37] Voice 1: gets there so

[0:43:37] Voice 8: there is there there is there is some staff time that has been um has been taken

[0:43:44] Voice 8: to get it to the planner's desk um and then you know they i think it gets a bit it'll get a bit

[0:43:51] Voice 8: bit more gray you know trying to just define at which point has the planner started thinking about

[0:43:56] Voice 8: it so

[0:43:57] Voice 8: that's why i'm inclined to stick with designated i see some nodding okay fair enough

[0:44:04] Voice 11: i just uh it just the trigger points weren't clear to me the difference in the trigger points that's

[0:44:10] Voice 11: all because the difference between five three and five four can be substantial yeah i

[0:44:17] Voice 1: know

[0:44:18] Voice 1: Heather and Robert are online if you got any comments Heather and Robert jump in but yeah I

[0:44:25] Voice 1: just kind of agree with Nerissa but I do see what you're talking about there's that potential for a

[0:44:31] Voice 1: little bit of a gray area so for example what do we mean by us assigned so you know has the

[0:44:38] Voice 1: clerks just typed in the planner's name or as a regional planning manager assigned it to the

[0:44:43] Voice 1: planner and that might be the definition we'd use as a regional planning

[0:44:47] Voice 1: managers assigned it

[0:44:48] Voice 11: Yeah. Okay. I'll leave it at that then. Next one is 6.1.

[0:44:56] Trustee Busheikin: Okay. And I'll just step in here as chair because we're going through a number of items. So if

[0:45:00] Trustee Busheikin: trustees have things they really want to say about each specific item, just verbally step in because

[0:45:07] Trustee Busheikin: otherwise it's going to be a very complex conversation. So I had

[0:45:12] Voice 16: a question about the

[0:45:14] Voice 16: one we're just talking about 5.3 okay go ahead um so i'm just uh just if i can um

[0:45:24] Voice 16: looking at 5.3 i'm just wondering if there's a specific rationale that we're

[0:45:29] Voice 16: uh doing the the refined less a hundred dollars for table one and less fifty dollars in the case

[0:45:38] Voice 16: of the other applications i'm just wondering if there's any reason why it's not just a hundred for

[0:45:43] Voice 16: all of them. I can speak to that

[0:45:48] Voice 1: yeah so through the chair the this is actually a carryover from

[0:45:52] Voice 1: the existing fee bylaw we just didn't change it the intent is that table one the application is

[0:46:00] Voice 1: usually much more involved those are the rezonings and there's more work for the clerk in opening

[0:46:06] Voice 1: that file there's a lot more to look for title searches and a whole bunch of other things

[0:46:12] Voice 1: the other ones the permits tend to be a little bit less that's why it was fifty dollars but if

[0:46:17] Voice 1: you want to change it happy to change it they just kept what was already there yeah

[0:46:22] Voice 16: if i may chair

[0:46:24] Voice 16: um i just to me a hundred dollars doesn't seem like an awful lot of money in it and and i mean

[0:46:31] Voice 16: it simplifies the that section and i'd be in support if it was just a hundred dollars across

[0:46:37] Voice 16: the board personally what

[0:46:42] Trustee Busheikin: look just maybe could i just see a kind of a thumbs up thumbs down kind

[0:46:47] Trustee Busheikin: of thing from trustees um i'm seeing thumbs up i i like the simplicity so um then is does staff

[0:46:57] Trustee Busheikin: have any concerns they want to raise around that i

[0:47:02] Voice 1: have no concerns uh simple is better

[0:47:04] Voice 1: Yeah, it is. Okay.

[0:47:13] Voice 1: Okay. Just making a note to myself. Sorry. Go ahead.

[0:47:20] Trustee Busheikin: Okay. Case, did you have more?

[0:47:23] Voice 11: I do, actually. Section 6.1.

[0:47:28] Voice 11: The last time we talked, I thought it was that the extraordinary cost and the

[0:47:37] Voice 11: the repayment agreement were not an option.

[0:47:42] Voice 11: They were actually,

[0:47:44] Voice 11: because I've talked about that being A or B,

[0:47:47] Voice 11: but it wasn't going to be A or B.

[0:47:49] Voice 11: And yet it's still here as a fee paid

[0:47:53] Voice 11: or an agreement entered into,

[0:47:56] Voice 11: a recovery agreement entered into.

[0:47:58] Voice 11: And I thought we were moving.

[0:48:00] Voice 1: We're keeping that.

[0:48:01] Voice 1: Yeah.

[0:48:04] Voice 1: Nurse, did we have any reason to keep that?

[0:48:06] Voice 1: I was thinking it might be simply just to go through the cost recovery.

[0:48:11] Voice 8: Yeah, we could just go through the cost recovery.

[0:48:14] Voice 8: I think we kept it to still provide that option for it to be paid out, right?

[0:48:18] Voice 8: But ultimately going to cost recovery, just only cost recovery may be better

[0:48:24] Voice 8: because if the fee is more than what was anticipated, then that sort of covers us.

[0:48:29] Voice 8: So we could probably go to 6.1.

[0:48:33] Voice 8: Yeah.

[0:48:34] Voice 1: And I'm not aware of anybody actually using 611. I think we've always gone cost recovery for that, mainly for that reason. So yeah, so maybe if the committee agrees, we can just delete 611 and we'll just rewrite 611. So it's a sentence that starts off extraordinary service costs will be paid by the applicant through a cost recovery agreement, blah, blah, blah. And we'll delete 611.

[0:48:59] Voice 1: one okay and um

[0:49:01] Trustee Busheikin: with each of these like i um they're fairly detailed although they're important

[0:49:05] Trustee Busheikin: um but i don't want to take each one as a motion and a vote and have discussion on it so i'm going

[0:49:10] Trustee Busheikin: to assume that people will um like just for this kind of stuff just either you can do the thumbs

[0:49:17] Trustee Busheikin: up and down if you're on the phone just speak up and if there's people on the phone who who aren't

[0:49:22] Trustee Busheikin: getting noticed the hands-up function may not be working um please just say excuse me or chair

[0:49:28] Trustee Busheikin: and we'll work that way um and

[0:49:32] Voice 1: if i may yeah yeah i'm just keeping track of all these little

[0:49:36] Voice 1: changes and at the end you can do a resolution to adopt as amended and i can just list off what

[0:49:43] Voice 1: they are so you're aware of what we're what you consider

[0:49:45] Trustee Busheikin: that's what i i was hoping thank you

[0:49:47] Trustee Busheikin: great um and uh uh narissa go ahead yeah

[0:49:51] Voice 8: i'm just i'm making

[0:49:52] Voice 8: the changes as we're going along so

[0:49:54] Voice 8: So wonderful. Yeah.

[0:49:56] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, good. And, and I am I am seeing the hands that are up so we're just we're working through these items that that trustee longer is bringing up to other people. Go ahead.

[0:50:12] Voice 11: Oh, sorry, me?

[0:50:13] Voice 11: Yeah.

[0:50:14] Voice 11: Okay, yeah.

[0:50:15] Voice 11: So then the rest of the sections you'd be removing,

[0:50:18] Voice 11: the applicant will pay a deposit of 150% of this estimate,

[0:50:22] Voice 11: then I'm assuming.

[0:50:23] Voice 11: We're not going to be taking a deposit?

[0:50:26] Voice 1: We will.

[0:50:27] Voice 1: The cost recovery agreement still has a deposit.

[0:50:30] Voice 1: So we

[0:50:31] Voice 1: will identify the amounts.

[0:50:33] Voice 1: Let's say it's $1,000, yeah.

[0:50:35] Voice 1: And then they'll sign the agreement and give us a check for $150.

[0:50:40] Voice 1: And the agreement will lay out what it says there in 6.2, 6.3, 6.4 about how they get the money back if they don't spend it or they have to pay us more if they don't.

[0:50:50] Voice 11: Okay, that's what I was thinking, but that's great.

[0:50:57] Voice 11: I've got two more comments and that's about it.

[0:51:03] Voice 11: next one is the uh number seven section seven annual fee increases uh it says now application

[0:51:14] Voice 11: fees will increase two percent on april 1st i wonder if it would be clearer if we were to say

[0:51:22] Voice 11: fees will increase replacing that with fees set out in section 3.1 will increase or the fees set

[0:51:32] Voice 11: out in section 3.1 are increased just to make it that it actually affects it because when you say

[0:51:38] Voice 11: it will increase it that implies potentially a future intent it doesn't necessarily actually

[0:51:45] Voice 11: change the fees and aren't we trying to avoid having to change the bylaw and just adding the 2

[0:51:51] Voice 11: okay

[0:51:52] Voice 1: so we're saying is change that to say fees in section 3.1 increase

[0:52:00] Voice 11: yeah

[0:52:01] Voice 1: by two percent on april 1st of each year or something like that yeah okay i just wondered

[0:52:09] Voice 11: about the words he could will increase uh it could be read as a potential like an authority

[0:52:14] Voice 11: to do so but doesn't actually do it yeah

[0:52:17] Voice 1: i know that's a good point yeah uh

[0:52:20] Trustee Patrick: trustee patrick i just

[0:52:22] Trustee Patrick: on this topic so i just i just thought we're here um i know i i did go and read a lot of bylaws from

[0:52:30] Trustee Patrick: a lot of other municipalities and a lot of them do deal with the fee increases some of them use

[0:52:35] Trustee Patrick: a schedule of show with the years so that there is absolutely clarity that with the you know the

[0:52:43] Trustee Patrick: price it's in an attached schedule that shows 10 years or five years of of time and what the amount

[0:52:50] Trustee Patrick: is so that there's no question uh when somebody digs into that of where they are so just wanted

[0:52:56] Trustee Patrick: would mention that.

[0:53:01] Voice 11: Does 7.2 achieve that to some degree?

[0:53:06] Voice 1: And through the chair that actually was

[0:53:08] Voice 1: the intent so I mean that is another option is you could attach a schedule and it just shows the fees

[0:53:16] Voice 1: for each year on April 1st. The drawback to that of course is how far down do you go and then you

[0:53:23] Voice 1: obviously would have to update your bylaw before the last one otherwise that's the fee that would

[0:53:28] Voice 1: apply in perpetuity until you update your bylaw. This way the 2% increase is in perpetuity until

[0:53:35] Voice 1: you change the bylaw and the trust committee would just you know we would create that schedule

[0:53:42] Voice 1: and post it on the web at the beginning of each year.

[0:53:47] Trustee Patrick: Okay could you not have a statement that

[0:53:52] Trustee Patrick: it would be and you know could you not say a schedule would be provided in five years something

[0:53:57] Trustee Patrick: refer to a schedule in the by-law and then the schedule could be updated without requiring a

[0:54:04] Trustee Patrick: by-law change or does a schedule have to be included in the by-laws?

[0:54:13] Voice 1: Well the way we've

[0:54:16] Voice 1: proposed it here is a schedule would be created I mean there's nothing stopping us creating a

[0:54:20] Voice 1: five-year schedule based on the by-law so 7.2 where it says maintain a record of the annual

[0:54:26] Voice 1: two percent increases we could put up a single sheet that covers the next five years based on

[0:54:32] Voice 1: whatever the adopted bylaw is for each trust committee so there's nothing stopping us doing

[0:54:38] Voice 1: that so in some ways I think this approach is a little bit more flexible

[0:54:42] Voice 10: right but if you don't

[0:54:44] Voice 1: like it we can certainly do something different but if you refer to a schedule the schedule then

[0:54:50] Voice 1: is part of the bylaw and you would have to specify it.

[0:54:54] Voice 1: Yeah

[0:54:55] Voice 11: I personally I support this approach in the bylaw now because it is not a prescribed form

[0:55:02] Voice 11: it's it's just a specified form so you can it's like an administrative form that it comes

[0:55:09] Voice 11: from the bylaw so it's it's more readily amenable you don't have to do a bylaw change to change it.

[0:55:16] Voice 10: yeah

[0:55:17] Trustee Busheikin: so yeah unless i at this point i think it's a good discussion and um if you know if there's a

[0:55:28] Trustee Busheikin: strong feeling that people would like to change it to a schedule i think you know we'd want a

[0:55:35] Trustee Busheikin: proposal to have more discussion of it

[0:55:36] Voice 7: i can go either way i mean i i the advantage of a schedule

[0:55:44] Voice 7: is that if i pick or if a member of the public picks this up this policy and and then uh well

[0:55:50] Voice 7: you know tries to figure out well what year are we in or you know so how much would i actually have

[0:55:56] Voice 7: to pay but i mean if we if we post the actual fees then they're there yeah

[0:56:04] Voice 1: and that that's what

[0:56:05] Voice 1: 7.2 would be doing it says the the ltc will maintain a record so it's a requirement to the

[0:56:11] Voice 1: the bylaw that we create that fee schedule for each year on April 1st. So people would know it's

[0:56:20] Voice 1: April 1st, 2022. And then it would just list the actual fees that have been calculated based on

[0:56:26] Voice 1: 7.1.

[0:56:27] Voice 10: Yeah. Okay.

[0:56:30] Trustee Busheikin: Thanks. Yeah. And just putting myself on the speaker's list, I like the

[0:56:35] Trustee Busheikin: flexibility of how it's written now. And given that I'm hearing quite a lot of interest in

[0:56:40] Trustee Busheikin: um reviewing the fees uh model bylaw um perhaps once a term if it's going to keep changing then

[0:56:49] Trustee Busheikin: it's just one less thing to to have to change if the big picture changes um and i think you know

[0:56:57] Trustee Busheikin: i like the simplicity of that um and i think having clarity around where the fees are posted

[0:57:01] Trustee Busheikin: so that um constituents can can have access to that is important because um right now they can

[0:57:08] Trustee Busheikin: be a little hard to find um yeah yeah uh but i think that also will show up on our new website

[0:57:16] Trustee Busheikin: uh okay so i'd like to keep us moving you said you had one more um item case to bring to our

[0:57:22] Trustee Busheikin: attention uh

[0:57:23] Voice 11: that yes that was just a question about attachment number two which is the the

[0:57:28] Voice 11: the fee that sort of uh fee um development approval information yeah yeah

[0:57:37] Voice 10: no

[0:57:39] Voice 11: no uh it's uh

[0:57:40] Voice 11: it's attachment to to the whole um oh

[0:57:44] Voice 1: yeah yeah application

[0:57:45] Voice 11: processing fee estimates it's the

[0:57:48] Voice 11: service and the average cost the average all

[0:57:50] Voice 1: that one okay yeah yeah okay

[0:57:52] Voice 11: just so this is

[0:57:56] Voice 11: is this is in our policy but not in the bylaw itself and

[0:58:02] Trustee Busheikin: it's page 40 thank

[0:58:03] Voice 11: you yeah yeah

[0:58:04] Voice 11: sorry okay so uh so it's just something that can be used by trustees when uh determining the

[0:58:17] Voice 11: um let's see what i got here i've forgotten what i was thinking at the time

[0:58:21] Voice 11: okay it says that what i had here is if a fee is reduced up to 20 percent you know as per

[0:58:27] Voice 11: 4.3 of the revised policy which is just policy do we need some authority in the bylaw or is that

[0:58:34] Voice 11: just something that's administratively done in was it internally and not part of the bylaw

[0:58:40] Voice 11: so reduction yeah

[0:58:43] Voice 1: so it's referring to the policy which talks about 20 reduction that really is just

[0:58:49] Voice 1: saying if a trust committee doesn't like uh their model fees they can go they can lower those fees

[0:58:56] Voice 1: by 20 percent and that's essentially saying the executive committee would then likely approve that

[0:59:01] Voice 1: because it fits with the policy so that's just to address some localized issues that might

[0:59:08] Voice 1: not be covered by the policy um so this i

[0:59:13] Trustee Busheikin: think maybe this isn't on page 40 now because i got

[0:59:17] Trustee Busheikin: lost and i'm interested in this can i know what page we're on and what we're looking at that

[0:59:21] Trustee Busheikin: It refers to

[0:59:21] Trustee Busheikin: this 20%.

[0:59:24] Voice 1: So the 20% is in the policy.

[0:59:28] Voice 1: I don't have the number in front of me.

[0:59:30] Voice 1: I'm not sure if Narissa does.

[0:59:32] Trustee Busheikin: Okay.

[0:59:33] Voice 11: It's section 4.3 of the revised policy.

[0:59:37] Trustee Busheikin: Yeah, I just like I've got like I'm just flipping through pages after pages.

[0:59:40] Trustee Busheikin: So I need a page number.

[0:59:42] Trustee Busheikin: The page numbers are on the bottom.

[0:59:43] Voice 1: When you

[0:59:44] Trustee Busheikin: print it out, they should show up.

[0:59:45] Voice 1: Yeah, page 19 of the agenda package.

[0:59:49] Trustee Busheikin: Okay.

[0:59:49] Voice 1: 4.3 is what we're looking at.

[0:59:51] Voice 1: Okay. So that list of costs that was attached, that's really just for your information.

[1:00:00] Voice 1: as to where we calculated the model fees from.

[1:00:06] Voice 1: It's not going to be attached to the by-law.

[1:00:08] Voice 1: It's just there for information.

[1:00:11] Voice 11: What I was wondering about is our fees are supposedly premised

[1:00:16] Voice 11: on the average cost of an application,

[1:00:19] Voice 11: the different types of application.

[1:00:21] Voice 11: So when we take some application and reduce the cost by 20%,

[1:00:25] Voice 11: it reads in the by-law as this is the average cost.

[1:00:30] Voice 11: which may raise

[1:00:31] Voice 11: questions about why some are higher and some lower.

[1:00:33] Voice 11: So I wondered about whether you need to sort of specify that the trust

[1:00:37] Voice 11: committee may have the flexibility to reduce the fees by 20% just to show

[1:00:43] Voice 11: that it's, it's, it's actually not the average cost. It's a,

[1:00:48] Voice 11: it's a lower cost. I just wondered about that. Yeah.

[1:00:54] Voice 11: It goes back to the premise of what the fees are based on.

[1:00:59] Voice 11: yeah

[1:01:00] Voice 1: yeah well 4.3 uh lays out the rationale so there's three things there um you're right

[1:01:08] Voice 1: it's supposed to be on the average cost of processing and this kind of gets a little bit

[1:01:13] Voice 1: away from that because it's more about the the benefit rate and um we just talk about

[1:01:20] Voice 1: variances in direct costs like hall rentals yeah i don't

[1:01:24] Voice 10: have a good answer

[1:01:25] Voice 1: to this this

[1:01:25] Voice 1: The 20% fee reduction, again, is something that comes out of the existing policy.

[1:01:31] Voice 1: It was put in way back when to, I think, address some local trust committee concerns that they didn't like the proposed fee.

[1:01:41] Voice 1: So the executive said, well, if you want to lower it, we'll let you lower it and we'll limit it to 20%.

[1:01:45] Voice 1: Yeah, okay.

[1:01:46] Voice 11: Yeah, it's just that I tend to go by the bylaw rather than policy for whatever.

[1:01:53] Voice 11: the other question I had was does the 20% reduction apply to development permits that

[1:01:58] Voice 11: already have a reduced fee I

[1:02:03] Voice 1: think the way I read this it could be anything in the model fee

[1:02:06] Voice 1: bylaw could be reduced yeah

[1:02:08] Voice 11: so they the reduced development permits could be reduced to further

[1:02:11] Voice 11: 20% that's

[1:02:13] Voice 1: the way I would read it yeah

[1:02:14] Voice 11: okay yeah

[1:02:15] Voice 1: that's

[1:02:18] Voice 11: it thank you for that thank you

[1:02:21] Trustee Busheikin: thanks for your thoroughness um so uh next there is trustee patrick um

[1:02:29] Trustee Patrick: yeah i just again wanted

[1:02:30] Trustee Patrick: to revisit 4.1 on page 25 but i know we had the discussion and i apologize my memory i can't

[1:02:37] Trustee Patrick: remember um i i was looking at uh i know i went and looked at the lake simcoe regional conservation

[1:02:44] Trustee Patrick: authorities in ontario but right in their fee schedule they have double permit fee for any

[1:02:51] Trustee Patrick: retroactive permits for each class and uh making it very clear that right you know trying to push

[1:02:57] Trustee Patrick: people in that and i know we had that conversation before um because it is is it limited through the

[1:03:04] Trustee Patrick: government act of what we can charge for for a retroactive permit there's i know you said it

[1:03:10] Trustee Patrick: was just we there were some increased costs so it was justified but yeah

[1:03:14] Voice 1: it can't be punitive

[1:03:16] Voice 1: it can only be to recover the average cost of processing the application so the justification

[1:03:21] Voice 1: here the only one i can think of is that it's going to be more involved there's going to be

[1:03:27] Voice 1: more public involvement likely because it could be controversial and our battle enforcement officers

[1:03:32] Voice 1: are likely going to get involved in at least working with the planners to find you know to

[1:03:36] Voice 1: to deal with the whole application so there's going to be more people involved in it

[1:03:40] Voice 1: so the 20 percent it was just our estimate of what that would look like

[1:03:45] Voice 1: um but you can't go to punitive levels you can't use it to punish people

[1:03:52] Trustee Busheikin: thank you and i see them also

[1:03:54] Voice 8: i would just add that this is one of the things that we specifically

[1:03:58] Voice 8: um asked our lawyer about and so um he was very clear that um that it can't be punitive and that

[1:04:05] Voice 8: That 20% seemed reasonable in terms of the decision.

[1:04:09] Trustee Patrick: Okay, thanks.

[1:04:11] Trustee Patrick: We need some tougher rules like Ontario.

[1:04:13] Trustee Patrick: Yes.

[1:04:15] Trustee Patrick: I just wanted to, we don't need to discuss it now.

[1:04:20] Trustee Patrick: I just want to bring it up and Laura, I'll let you figure out when,

[1:04:24] Trustee Patrick: but probably before we vote on this.

[1:04:26] Trustee Patrick: I know that there was some expectation brought up from our last meeting

[1:04:30] Trustee Patrick: we had with the Financial Planning Committee and also at this past

[1:04:33] Trustee Patrick: trust council that there's an expectation that there's going to be significantly more money

[1:04:39] Trustee Patrick: raised as a result of these model fee laws being put into process i took and calculated based i

[1:04:46] Trustee Patrick: took salt spring and looked at applications from 2020 2021 to date and only calculated just over

[1:04:54] Trustee Patrick: 21 000 being added revenue as a result of the model bylaws so at some point we should discuss

[1:05:02] Trustee Patrick: this because I think there's an expectation that you know there could be considerably

[1:05:07] Trustee Patrick: more revenue as a result of this activity where you know it might not meet that

[1:05:12] Voice 10: thank you

[1:05:16] Trustee Patrick: just

[1:05:17] Voice 1: to comment on that so our revenue on average is about 120,000 from applications so that would

[1:05:25] Voice 1: would be roughly, what, 15% increase just on Salt Spring.

[1:05:32] Voice 1: So I'm not sure what would be a trust-wide, but yeah.

[1:05:37] Voice 1: But you're right, it's not going to raise it

[1:05:39] Voice 1: to significant amounts.

[1:05:43] Voice 1: And then just on that, the reason for that is

[1:05:46] Voice 1: because the actual processing of applications

[1:05:48] Voice 1: is not the bulk of the work that the planners are doing.

[1:05:51] Voice 1: It's a lot of it is inquiries before the fact.

[1:05:55] Voice 1: you know that kind of thing we are we have been talking about how do we capture that and

[1:06:00] Voice 1: I've been talking with the regional planning managers about and Heather actually has got

[1:06:05] Voice 1: some ideas about how we can start thinking about capturing the time that we spend before an

[1:06:12] Voice 1: application and then at least charging it I guess is a way of saying it recording it

[1:06:20] Voice 1: against that application when it comes in so that we get the true estimate of the actual cost for

[1:06:28] Voice 1: processing that application. And then down the road, that might help us to have a look at the

[1:06:33] Voice 1: fees again and say, well, you know, we need to adjust them to cover that. We just don't have

[1:06:37] Voice 1: the information right now.

[1:06:40] Trustee Busheikin: Interesting. What I'd like to do is we can come back to that topic

[1:06:46] Trustee Busheikin: later and that was a really interesting context for it.

[1:06:52] Trustee Busheikin: But I'd like to just look at the specifics

[1:06:56] Trustee Busheikin: of what we have before us and work through those,

[1:07:00] Trustee Busheikin: if we may.

[1:07:03] Voice 10: So

[1:07:03] Trustee Busheikin: Trustee Patrick, did you have anything else specific

[1:07:06] Trustee Busheikin: to the policies and attachments before us?

[1:07:11] Trustee Busheikin: Trustee Wolverton, in case your hand is still up.

[1:07:14] Trustee Busheikin: I

[1:07:15] Voice 11: had some comments on the or question on the development approval information bylaw.

[1:07:19] Trustee Busheikin: Okay. Okay.

[1:07:21] Trustee Busheikin: I didn't really separate everything up. But let's maybe stick with the fees

[1:07:26] Trustee Busheikin: related stuff. And I'll come back to you. So trustee Wilberton.

[1:07:29] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, on page

[1:07:32] Voice 7: 26, 6.6. I think there's just a typo or in the second line,

[1:07:40] Voice 7: it says the uh the trust shall provide the applicant with the amount and the i think it

[1:07:45] Voice 7: should be applicant yeah

[1:07:47] Voice 1: thank you we'll correct that

[1:07:49] Voice 7: um and then on page 41 um where the uh

[1:07:55] Voice 7: on development permits where it says uh total environmental benefit should it be sort of total

[1:08:02] Voice 7: total with environmental benefit.

[1:08:05] Voice 1: Sorry, what page was that?

[1:08:06] Voice 7: 41.

[1:08:07] Voice 1: 41?

[1:08:09] Voice 7: Yeah, at the very bottom.

[1:08:11] Voice 7: It says total and then in brackets, environmental benefit.

[1:08:15] Voice 7: It might be clear if it was total

[1:08:18] Voice 7: with an environmental benefit.

[1:08:21] Voice 1: Oh, yeah, okay.

[1:08:25] Voice 1: Nurse, do you want to comment on that?

[1:08:26] Voice 1: yeah um

[1:08:30] Voice 8: this document is really meant for reference but certainly any um you know

[1:08:37] Voice 8: i'm happy to to add anything that makes it clear yeah just trying to make things

[1:08:42] Voice 8: clear that's all

[1:08:43] Voice 7: yeah so

[1:08:45] Voice 1: i'll leave that with narissa too

[1:08:49] Voice 1: okay

[1:08:49] Voice 7: and um i i had asked whether uh sorry now uh whether on um pages uh 34 and 35

[1:09:03] Voice 7: whether we would be including a qualified environmental professional a qep on some of

[1:09:11] Voice 7: these we've got registered biologists and so on but um no qeps in there and i wondered if

[1:09:18] Voice 7: if that is something we could add back in or add in.

[1:09:25] Voice 1: It's in there for riparian areas,

[1:09:27] Voice 1: qualified environmental professional.

[1:09:29] Voice 7: Right, but for an environmental assessment

[1:09:31] Voice 7: or conservation assessment, sensitive ecosystem,

[1:09:36] Voice 7: those kinds of tree and native vegetation protection.

[1:09:40] Voice 1: Right.

[1:09:41] Voice 1: So this is an area I'm not,

[1:09:43] Voice 1: maybe Robert and Heather might know better than I do.

[1:09:46] Voice 1: you um is that term used in that respect or do we just go with the um you know the professional

[1:09:53] Voice 1: organizations i know qualified environmental professional is a term used in the riparian

[1:10:01] Voice 1: areas regulation and the act i'm not sure it's used elsewhere in the same manner right

[1:10:08] Voice 15: so it's

[1:10:08] Voice 15: used yeah like you say david it's used in the legislation for the riparian area protection

[1:10:14] Voice 15: regulation and legislation where it's specifically defined. Elsewhere it's

[1:10:20] Voice 15: sometimes used more as a colloquial term for someone who's both a registered

[1:10:26] Voice 15: say a registered biologist and has relevant experience. So

[1:10:30] Voice 15: the term QEP

[1:10:31] Voice 15: legal, sort of legal implications of the term QEP are only in relation to the

[1:10:35] Voice 15: riparian areas regulation.

[1:10:38] Voice 1: Yeah so for clarity here to make make sure it's

[1:10:41] Voice 1: it's legal, we've only identified the professional designations that are required for each of those

[1:10:47] Voice 1: different areas and as Robert said qualified environmental professional is defined so we

[1:10:53] Voice 1: can use it under riparian areas but we can't elsewhere.

[1:10:58] Voice 7: Okay and I was thinking you know

[1:11:02] Voice 7: in heritage assessment or archaeological assessment would we also be looking, could we

[1:11:08] Voice 7: be a look to some of the knowledge holders from the first nations

[1:11:20] Voice 1: so this is in relation to i assume a rezoning application where that might be an issue that

[1:11:27] Voice 1: we'd like to address so and i

[1:11:29] Voice 8: see narissa has her hand up yeah

[1:11:31] Voice 8: the comment that i would make on that

[1:11:33] Voice 8: um is that we're in the process of developing the relationships with cultural knowledge holders

[1:11:38] Voice 8: and that they are um essentially they're not necessarily part of an organization so

[1:11:45] Voice 8: they're not necessarily being paid to provide their their knowledge or expertise unless we

[1:11:52] Voice 8: unless we pay for for that so that's something to to consider um if we if we were to add something

[1:11:58] Voice 8: like that

[1:11:59] Voice 10: anything

[1:12:05] Voice 7: else jane no but i would like us to consider that in some way i don't know

[1:12:12] Voice 7: exactly how we do it i mean we've talked about a consulting professional only includes the various

[1:12:16] Voice 7: registered professionals but i think we would be missing out if we didn't make reference to

[1:12:24] Voice 7: the knowledge holders so

[1:12:28] Voice 1: just uh through the chair um we're not in a rush to get this to

[1:12:32] Voice 1: council we've got may meeting which is the meeting before we go to council so you would have to

[1:12:37] Voice 1: to approve everything if you want it to go to June council in May.

[1:12:41] Voice 1: So we do have time if you want us to chat with say Lisa Wilcox about what we

[1:12:47] Voice 1: can do. This is a bylaw, right? This is a model bylaw.

[1:12:50] Voice 1: So everything in here right now, what it's saying,

[1:12:54] Voice 1: what the bylaw is saying is that where you're required to provide a

[1:12:59] Voice 1: professional report, this is the requirement.

[1:13:03] Voice 1: so a professional report on stormwater drainage must be written by a professional civil engineer

[1:13:10] Voice 1: registered with the engineers and geoscientists of BC so I'm not sure how we do this with something

[1:13:17] Voice 1: that is coming from a first nation and it might be better to deal with it outside of the DAI bylaw

[1:13:24] Voice 1: and maybe through some other process so I'd be uncomfortable recommending putting something in

[1:13:30] Voice 1: here without at least talking to Lisa first and then figuring out how do we link it back to that

[1:13:37] Voice 1: professional aspect of it

[1:13:39] Voice 1: thanks

[1:13:40] Voice 8: Nerissa um yeah I I just didn't want to add that the staff report

[1:13:44] Voice 8: did indicate that we're we're going to learn more um through the heritage overlay uh project

[1:13:50] Voice 8: um and and ultimately I think you know just connecting back to what David said it's really

[1:13:55] Voice 8: about um understanding what the process to to engage cultural knowledge holders uh would be

[1:14:01] Voice 8: and um that's that's definitely something that we're sort of in the process of of of sort of

[1:14:07] Voice 8: figuring out so um it you know it may be something that we could feel more confident um putting in

[1:14:13] Voice 8: um at a later date but um i can certainly have a conversation with lisa to see um you know what

[1:14:19] Voice 8: if there's anything we could be putting at this this point in time i mean my gut feeling is we'll

[1:14:23] Voice 8: get there um but we may not be there yet so thank you

[1:14:29] Trustee Busheikin: um thank you um and i just want to thank you

[1:14:34] Trustee Busheikin: for bringing it up and thinking of that i think that's part of us sort of shifting our mindset

[1:14:39] Trustee Busheikin: about different ways of working um and indeed you know how we use our our position as um people with

[1:14:48] Trustee Busheikin: a certain amount of power in a colonial government to define, you know, who really we're defining

[1:15:00] Trustee Busheikin: power and who has the power to state what is true and not true and who can be considered to,

[1:15:07] Trustee Busheikin: you know, have knowledge that we respect and not in, you know, and that's something we need

[1:15:12] Trustee Busheikin: to be questioning. So, and it may not happen directly here, but I do believe that through

[1:15:18] Trustee Busheikin: do the work on the heritage overlay mapping

[1:15:19] Trustee Busheikin: and all that entails, we're shifting.

[1:15:23] Trustee Busheikin: Thanks, go ahead, Laura.

[1:15:26] Trustee Patrick: Related to that, I do know like for archeological

[1:15:30] Trustee Patrick: assessments that First Nations have,

[1:15:34] Trustee Patrick: some have recognized professional archeologists

[1:15:37] Trustee Patrick: that they respect versus others.

[1:15:41] Trustee Patrick: And I know we don't have that written in here,

[1:15:43] Trustee Patrick: but that might be something else to look at with,

[1:15:46] Trustee Patrick: if we're going to talk to lisa related to that because that is in the schedule

[1:15:53] Trustee Busheikin: yes i'm just yeah yeah and i'm just thinking this may all i think things will evolve with this over

[1:16:01] Trustee Busheikin: the next few years like i know that the komox nation is um uh they've done a lot of work on

[1:16:07] Trustee Busheikin: cultural heritage and um they they will be asking us i mean they have informally to you know exceed

[1:16:13] Trustee Busheikin: what the Archaeology Act is asking for

[1:16:17] Trustee Busheikin: and to have some kind of higher requirements

[1:16:21] Trustee Busheikin: and maybe some kind of permit on them.

[1:16:26] Trustee Busheikin: But we're not there yet.

[1:16:29] Trustee Busheikin: Yeah.

[1:16:30] Trustee Busheikin: So I've just put myself on the speaker's list

[1:16:33] Trustee Busheikin: with a question about the actual recommended fees.

[1:16:37] Trustee Busheikin: And it also has a little bit to do with that 20% variance.

[1:16:41] Trustee Busheikin: So I'm looking at the fee tables. I'm on page 24. And, you know, my concern is the shock to the community that this could be the shock and the backlash in terms of maybe people not bothering anymore with permits or, yeah, that would probably be a big one.

[1:17:07] Trustee Busheikin: and um the if i look at the temporary use permit um for the community benefit we on denman and i

[1:17:16] Trustee Busheikin: think it's the same on hornby or similar um we only allow temporary use permits for secondary

[1:17:23] Trustee Busheikin: cottages that are meant to provide rental housing and they cost 440 dollars so the idea of more and

[1:17:31] Trustee Busheikin: And same on Hornby, I checked.

[1:17:32] Trustee Busheikin: So that would double, which is a bit of a shock for people who are saying, I want to

[1:17:38] Trustee Busheikin: provide housing and they have to apply for the temporary use permit and then the siting

[1:17:43] Trustee Busheikin: and use permit as well.

[1:17:45] Trustee Busheikin: So there's double permits and they just want to provide housing for a parent or a friend.

[1:17:54] Trustee Busheikin: And, you know, there's already pushback and there's already a lot of illegal housing going

[1:17:58] Trustee Busheikin: on because people just won't apply for the permits.

[1:18:01] Trustee Busheikin: and then but with the siting and use permit which on denman and hornby that's the only place we have

[1:18:06] Trustee Busheikin: them and it's i think the main reason is we don't have building permits um it's uh currently 176

[1:18:14] Trustee Busheikin: on hornby 220 on denman for that so it would be more than 10 times as much

[1:18:21] Trustee Busheikin: that

[1:18:22] Voice 1: that's a typo it should be

[1:18:23] Trustee Busheikin: two five zero oh zero sorry about that because i was just like

[1:18:28] Trustee Busheikin: like oh my god well

[1:18:30] Voice 1: that's

[1:18:31] Trustee Busheikin: very reasonable um we did it on

[1:18:34] Voice 1: purpose to get your attention because

[1:18:35] Trustee Busheikin: there's no site visits generally unless it's something very complicated thank you i feel

[1:18:40] Trustee Busheikin: better um and but then with the temporary like just my hand doesn't

[1:18:44] Voice 3: work oh i'm sorry i can't

[1:18:46] Trustee Busheikin: do the

[1:18:47] Voice 3: video so when you're done that's okay okay

[1:18:49] Voice 10: i just in general

[1:18:50] Voice 3: okay okay if you're finished

[1:18:53] Voice 3: i'm just in general okay go

[1:18:56] Voice 3: ahead laura and i'll stop

[1:18:57] Trustee Busheikin: i'll go to you after me because i'm kind of

[1:18:59] Trustee Busheikin: part part i'm 80 through um it's um i guess my question is if an ltc passed it a new fees bylaw

[1:19:09] Trustee Busheikin: and let's say we came back to ec and said you know what we don't want to double this we want

[1:19:13] Trustee Busheikin: to put it up to 600 that's lower than that 20 variance but we under you know we understand

[1:19:19] Trustee Busheikin: on the principle and we intend to review our fees again, like in two years and, you know,

[1:19:25] Trustee Busheikin: kind of scale this up. Is that, like, it would seem to me, I don't want to hobble LTCs that

[1:19:32] Trustee Busheikin: would say, oh my God, like there's one sticking point. So we're not even, we can't even look at

[1:19:36] Trustee Busheikin: this because it'll get turned down by EC and then everything is frozen. So is there room for EC to

[1:19:43] Trustee Busheikin: say, yes, there's a policy about 20%, but there's one temporary use permit of which there's been

[1:19:48] Trustee Busheikin: one in the last 10 years so it's not really going to change the budget of the islands trust is there

[1:19:55] Trustee Busheikin: would there be flexibility in the policy as written

[1:20:00] Voice 1: it's an interesting question so

[1:20:02] Voice 1: the the whole policy and the fee by law has been based on the premise of trying to get

[1:20:08] Voice 1: 100 recovery of the average cost of processing these different types of applications so that's

[1:20:14] Voice 1: what's presented and there's a 20 reduction so that that's the guidance to local trust committees

[1:20:21] Voice 1: the reality is that the executive committee can't be bound like the policy can't restrict

[1:20:27] Voice 1: the executive committee's authority um any more than the legislation has so the legislation says

[1:20:34] Voice 1: the executive committee uh considers local trust committee bylaws and approves or returns them and

[1:20:41] Voice 1: And if it returns them, it has to give reasons for the return.

[1:20:44] Voice 1: And there's nothing in the act that says specifically what the executive committee has to consider.

[1:20:50] Voice 1: In this case, the executive committee is likely going to be considering the impact on the budget and the resource allocations.

[1:20:57] Voice 1: So, yeah, they could approve or they could follow the policy.

[1:21:01] Voice 1: It's really up to the executive committee.

[1:21:03] Trustee Busheikin: So

[1:21:04] Voice 1: the policy is a guideline.

[1:21:05] Voice 1: line.

[1:21:05] Trustee Busheikin: Okay that's good because I think a case could be made that and we will we will do that

[1:21:10] Trustee Busheikin: if I'm still on the local trust committee. Thank you and let's go to Janine and sorry Janine if

[1:21:15] Trustee Busheikin: you've had to wait.

[1:21:17] Voice 3: As soon as I put my video on I get frozen. So I'm just going to same

[1:21:23] Voice 3: conversation the temporary use permits. So on my island and in my many years we don't use these

[1:21:29] Voice 3: very often but for instance we worried about the renewal amount of 1150 we have a temporary use

[1:21:37] Voice 3: permit for the Campbell Bay Music Festival which is only what three days out of the year

[1:21:41] Voice 3: and of course last year they had to cancel probably this year so they didn't hardly even

[1:21:47] Voice 3: get to use their their permit and they don't understand why a renewal is as high as it is

[1:21:53] Voice 3: from from what it was in the past because there shouldn't be a lot of staff time and I also want

[1:21:59] Voice 3: to know if that renewal fee can't be changed to something or if we as a local trust committee

[1:22:05] Voice 3: can choose to change it because the majority of what we have right now one is for day care

[1:22:11] Voice 3: which of course they didn't have to pay for anyways the other is for our little brewery

[1:22:14] Voice 3: which is a community benefit and so is the music festival so my experience on our temporary use

[1:22:20] Voice 3: permits is they actually all are community benefits and that renewal fee looks too high to me

[1:22:25] Voice 3: thank you

[1:22:27] Voice 10: did

[1:22:32] Voice 1: you want to talk about the renewal fee um narissa um did you want to talk about where

[1:22:39] Voice 1: the cost came from or is that is that indicative of the um actual cost or are we is that another

[1:22:49] Voice 1: typo with an extra zero on it um

[1:22:52] Voice 8: it's not it's not a typo i think the rationale was basically

[1:22:56] Voice 8: the renewal should be about half i mean that's essentially i think what what our discussion was

[1:23:00] Voice 8: related to renewal um does it is it uh reflective of cost um not necessarily definitely the uh

[1:23:10] Voice 8: the application is where the bulk of the work um would be done so a reduction in the renewal fee

[1:23:17] Voice 8: um you know i think from a cost recovery perspective um could be made yeah

[1:23:24] Voice 1: so if i

[1:23:25] Voice 1: I made through the chair. So with a renewal, there should be no changes to the permit. It's

[1:23:32] Voice 1: just literally coming to a trust committee and saying, this is what we've been doing. Here's

[1:23:37] Voice 1: our permit. We'd like to extend it. So there is some staff time just to go through and process

[1:23:43] Voice 1: that and get it on the agenda. But there shouldn't be a lot of back and forth with the applicant on

[1:23:48] Voice 1: the uses and what the changing is. There should be no changes. Maybe Robert or Heather can speak

[1:23:55] Voice 1: speak a little bit more to that. But that's my understanding. But whether that's the reality

[1:24:00] Voice 1: or not, I don't know. Yeah. Let's

[1:24:04] Voice 1: hear a little

[1:24:04] Trustee Busheikin: more from staff and then Trustee Peterson. You

[1:24:06] Trustee Busheikin: want to speak to this topic in particular, Tim?

[1:24:10] Voice 15: So in theory,

[1:24:11] Trustee Busheikin: the renewal should

[1:24:12] Voice 15: be, like David

[1:24:15] Voice 15: says, very straightforward. The permit, there's no notification, right, for renewals. The permit

[1:24:20] Voice 15: can be altered it's just approve it or not approve it um and um you know like little

[1:24:27] Voice 15: limited interaction time spent with the applicant and so on for the renewal

[1:24:32] Voice 15: but i think what we have noticed with the stvr tups is that there's an expectation on the part

[1:24:40] Voice 15: of local trust committees um when they're looking at renewals that there be a more extensive

[1:24:44] Voice 15: of reporting um to the ltc than there may be for some of the other um types of temporary use

[1:24:51] Voice 15: permits like the ones janine was mentioning so the they can they can vary a bit in terms of what the

[1:24:57] Voice 15: expectations are in terms of staff time spent on them so that may be where the where the origin of

[1:25:03] Voice 15: the higher fee is thank

[1:25:06] Voice 4: you uh tim i'm

[1:25:12] Voice 16: sorry yeah i was just gonna flag for uh trustee dodds that um

[1:25:15] Voice 16: She was mentioning that most of the TUPs

[1:25:18] Voice 16: are community benefit,

[1:25:19] Voice 16: which is significantly lower than the 1150 500,

[1:25:23] Voice 16: whether that's the appropriate spot or not,

[1:25:25] Voice 16: but I just wanted to mention that.

[1:25:30] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you.

[1:25:30] Trustee Busheikin: And then just on that same topic,

[1:25:35] Trustee Busheikin: I would say, you know,

[1:25:39] Trustee Busheikin: we could consider putting just that item 14,

[1:25:42] Trustee Busheikin: temporary use permit renewal for community benefit,

[1:25:44] Trustee Busheikin: benefit making that lower um don't actually know what it is on denman now but i think it's in the

[1:25:51] Trustee Busheikin: sort of 200 range so um that could be something we do for those community benefit like if it's

[1:25:57] Trustee Busheikin: a three-day festival and it's run by a non-profit organization i bet every every dollar counts so

[1:26:04] Trustee Busheikin: just as an example i don't know if anyone i'm not gonna actually propose that because i don't know

[1:26:09] Trustee Busheikin: know if there's well i don't know is there interest in let's just do the thumb up and down

[1:26:15] Trustee Busheikin: putting that temporary use print renewal given that it is unlikely to have a lot of work just

[1:26:21] Trustee Busheikin: for community benefit and i assume that is not stvrs um putting that down a bit let's see people

[1:26:28] Trustee Busheikin: on screen a little thumb thumb action kind of okay i'm not i'm seeing some positive and and

[1:26:39] Trustee Busheikin: And I see you, I see that top half of your head, Janine,

[1:26:42] Trustee Busheikin: and your thumb.

[1:26:44] Trustee Busheikin: So, and I'm not seeing any complete thumbs down.

[1:26:47] Trustee Busheikin: So I would like to suggest,

[1:26:49] Trustee Busheikin: I don't know if it needs a motion

[1:26:50] Trustee Busheikin: that we put that down to 350,

[1:26:54] Trustee Busheikin: and then there's still that 20% variability

[1:26:57] Trustee Busheikin: for local trust committees.

[1:27:00] Voice 1: So just to clarify,

[1:27:02] Voice 1: we're only changing, you're suggesting reducing line 14

[1:27:07] Voice 1: 14 from 500 to 350 okay just that one

[1:27:13] Voice 4: yeah okay

[1:27:15] Voice 1: i'm just adding it to the list of items for you to

[1:27:18] Voice 1: adopt by

[1:27:20] Voice 1: resolution later and

[1:27:21] Trustee Busheikin: um i'm gonna go to trustee patrick and then trustee mod

[1:27:25] Trustee Busheikin: yeah

[1:27:25] Trustee Patrick: i just wanted to follow up on robert kajima because i think

[1:27:28] Trustee Patrick: i think probably north pender is probably leading where we're seeing more temporary

[1:27:35] Trustee Patrick: use permits used for complicated commercial things like a cement plant um where the um

[1:27:44] Trustee Patrick: applicant is being required to do you know professional reports and so forth to prove

[1:27:48] Trustee Patrick: that they operated within authorization of the of the guidelines so um i there could be

[1:27:57] Trustee Patrick: more of that happening in throughout the trust as we go forward of dealing with more complicated

[1:28:02] Trustee Patrick: community issues through a temporary use permit process so for the renewal and i i thought robert

[1:28:09] Trustee Patrick: had some good points could

[1:28:12] Voice 1: i just through the chair uh stefan's also with us and i wasn't aware

[1:28:15] Voice 1: of that so stefan um could just ask if you got any comments on on this from a staff point of view

[1:28:21] Voice 1: through the chair

[1:28:23] Voice 3: no i i'm good i think robert's covered everything thanks david

[1:28:33] Trustee Busheikin: okay and just a question then related to that because like i'm thinking about it um can a

[1:28:42] Trustee Busheikin: i guess i i think i know the answer but can an ltc designate different types of temporary use

[1:28:48] Trustee Busheikin: permits for specific uses with different fees so that say a semi-industrial or industrial

[1:28:57] Trustee Busheikin: industrial tup might have a higher fee stv r might have a medium fee and a food truck have a lower

[1:29:05] Trustee Busheikin: fee like can that be actually broken down in that thing nodding um

[1:29:11] Voice 1: you could but again the fees are

[1:29:15] Voice 1: supposed to be recovering the average cost of processing that type of application so you know

[1:29:21] Voice 1: you generally want to say that there's probably more public in interest in industrial or there's

[1:29:27] Voice 1: something in it that causes it to cost more to process uh so that would be the rationale for it

[1:29:33] Voice 1: but

[1:29:33] Trustee Busheikin: okay yeah

[1:29:35] Voice 1: so getting to that level of um breaking down the fees bylaw becomes a little

[1:29:42] Voice 1: bit problematic i think from a yeah from that point of view

[1:29:46] Trustee Busheikin: um okay i'm gonna go to trustee

[1:29:48] Trustee Busheikin: on the phone hey

[1:29:50] Trustee Maude: um my concern i guess really what uh trustee dodds was speaking of um

[1:29:56] Trustee Maude: um is it almost seems like we're through a

[1:30:00] Trustee Maude: at the board here and selected for the renewal fee of $1,150, it seems to me that almost all of them,

[1:30:09] Trustee Maude: even the complex industrial ones, it's literally processing a renewal. And I thought the whole

[1:30:17] Trustee Maude: point of this exercise was cost recovery. And it seems to me that in this particular instance,

[1:30:24] Trustee Maude: instance that we're charging almost a punitive fee that isn't justified by what the actual cost

[1:30:31] Trustee Maude: would be in processing a renewal. And if something like specific, which we don't have on our own,

[1:30:39] Trustee Maude: but I understand many other owners do, like STVRs are a particular bone of contention,

[1:30:44] Trustee Maude: maybe those should be the one that has a separate fee attached to it for that specific instance.

[1:30:51] Trustee Maude: And then the other falling point was when we talk about a community benefit, have we defined that?

[1:30:58] Trustee Maude: Because as Trustee Dodge said, something like the Camel Bay Music Festival or say the brewery, which arguably could be established as being community benefit, is it actually when we drill down to our definitions,

[1:31:14] Trustee Maude: Can we get, can the local trust committee actually sort of arbitrate and say, this particular instance is a community benefit so we're going to charge the logical lower fee? That's pretty much what I got to contribute.

[1:31:26] Voice 1: Yeah, could I just respond to the chair? Yeah. So, the temporary, so line 12 on this item temporary use payment for residential uses, commercial uses, $1,000.

[1:31:37] Voice 1: dollars the the initial application does require quite a bit of staff time to review there's also

[1:31:44] Voice 1: a requirement of advertising and depending where you advertise that can eat up at least half of

[1:31:51] Voice 1: that thousand dollars right there so going much lower than a thousand dollars is going to be

[1:31:57] Voice 1: reducing that cost recovery significantly so that's why it's set at a thousand um the temporary

[1:32:04] Voice 1: use permit 2150 above is probably more realistic in the sense that all the time that would take to

[1:32:11] Voice 1: do it they're a little bit like a rezoning and a variance together people have concerns about the

[1:32:17] Voice 1: use that's being proposed depending on what's happening so you know so that's the company that

[1:32:23] Voice 1: and then with respect to the other one community benefit um you know again the idea there is let

[1:32:30] Voice 1: the local trust committee define what that is but it's intended to be for small scale which

[1:32:35] Voice 1: in line 12 there it says 95 meters squared or less of a residential commercial use something like

[1:32:43] Voice 1: that so yeah you know you could probably identify the music festival or some other thing as a

[1:32:54] Voice 1: community benefit if that's how it's seen on the island and then apply this fee to it thank you

[1:33:02] Trustee Maude: yeah if i could just like again my primary point was was renewal fee that

[1:33:10] Voice 1: so the renewal fee uh

[1:33:12] Voice 1: it's been lowered to 350 dollars uh line 14 no

[1:33:17] Trustee Maude: i'm speaking of line 13 temporary use permit

[1:33:21] Voice 1: renewal oh the 1150 yeah so there there is no advertising there so i think the cost probably

[1:33:31] Voice 1: could be significantly less than that it you know in an ideal world it would just be literally

[1:33:37] Voice 1: literally somebody saying I need to renew this and staff taking that to the local trust committee

[1:33:42] Voice 1: with a report to just identify it but in reality things come up as Robert outlined and with

[1:33:53] Voice 1: reconciliation there's potential that there may be First Nations issues that were raised in the

[1:33:57] Voice 1: first three years of the permit that they might want to have us consider in the second three years

[1:34:04] Voice 1: of the permit so it's just hard to say so yeah i mean if you want to reduce that 1150 that's

[1:34:10] Voice 1: something the committee could recommend to council so

[1:34:17] Trustee Busheikin: trustee would you like to suggest that

[1:34:20] Trustee Busheikin: and we can we could start with a little uh thumbs um straw vote well

[1:34:26] Trustee Maude: i guess you know like to me

[1:34:29] Trustee Maude: my comfort level will be more in the 500 range but but again i thought that this was an exercise

[1:34:35] Trustee Maude: size and cost recovery so i would have thought that in in selecting the the the number on line

[1:34:41] Trustee Maude: 13 or 1150 it was actually based on something but it sounds like it isn't

[1:34:46] Trustee Busheikin: well if i'm just gonna um

[1:34:51] Trustee Busheikin: put myself on the speaker's list because i don't see another hand right now so um i think for me

[1:34:57] Trustee Busheikin: it i think it's hard to maybe isn't based on very much because the evidence just isn't necessarily

[1:35:04] Trustee Busheikin: necessarily there. And what I heard is that there are many unforeseen issues around what might

[1:35:09] Trustee Busheikin: happen. Although I'm personally not averse to making it lower, because it sounds like in most

[1:35:16] Trustee Busheikin: cases, it would be uncomplicated. But then for things like the festival, I think as an LTC,

[1:35:22] Trustee Busheikin: you could define that as having community benefit, and then it falls into $350 range. Whereas if it

[1:35:28] Trustee Busheikin: doesn't have that community benefit maybe the the higher fee is is justified because there can be

[1:35:34] Trustee Busheikin: unforeseen issues i'm kind of on the fence i mean i wouldn't be against making it somewhat lower

[1:35:40] Trustee Busheikin: yeah

[1:35:42] Voice 1: just um through chair the as narissa said um when we talked about this it's probably a year ago

[1:35:49] Voice 1: now uh the decision was made to make it half of the um of the actual fee so you're correct it's

[1:35:57] Voice 1: It's not based on actual costs.

[1:35:59] Voice 1: So lowering it, I think, would probably be okay.

[1:36:02] Voice 1: $500, $600, that range will probably cover the staff time.

[1:36:08] Voice 1: And then we can just see how it goes.

[1:36:10] Voice 1: If we find it's higher, we can let you know in the future

[1:36:12] Voice 1: and we can update the model.

[1:36:15] Voice 1: So it's up to you what you want to do.

[1:36:20] Trustee Busheikin: So, David, are you thinking you'd like to go ahead

[1:36:22] Trustee Busheikin: and propose lowering it?

[1:36:25] Trustee Maude: Yes, I would be comfortable with $500.

[1:36:29] Trustee Busheikin: Okay.

[1:36:30] Trustee Busheikin: and um uh and i agree

[1:36:34] Trustee Busheikin: okay there's two for five two going for 500 um uh i i i would like to see

[1:36:44] Trustee Busheikin: it a little higher knowing that ltcs have that 20 percent variability because i think uh if on

[1:36:50] Trustee Busheikin: your island you know what you use tups for and if some islands it's it's primarily um let's say um

[1:36:56] Trustee Busheikin: you know, STVRs that are that perhaps are complex, or what was it cement plant, or I don't think

[1:37:05] Trustee Busheikin: that's what I heard, but something like that. If you know that they tend to be complicated,

[1:37:09] Trustee Busheikin: and things that have a lot of impacts and can have a lot of maybe need environmental studies

[1:37:17] Trustee Busheikin: or community input, then you can put it up the 20% or down. So I would suggest 700. Okay,

[1:37:25] Trustee Busheikin: trustee peterson yeah

[1:37:30] Voice 16: i i i'm not in i think 500 is too low personally um you know especially in

[1:37:38] Voice 16: relation to community benefit uh rates and i just sort of i'm just sort of reflecting that like this

[1:37:45] Voice 16: is a model um uh bylaw that we're making here and local trust committees don't have to adopt

[1:37:55] Voice 16: to adopt the model like in its entirety in my understanding.

[1:37:59] Voice 16: So I kind of feel like trying to tailor these fees

[1:38:05] Voice 16: based on what the situation on our individual islands

[1:38:09] Voice 16: is in committee here is not where we want to be going.

[1:38:15] Voice 16: Since local trust committees are going to be adopting

[1:38:18] Voice 16: or figuring out how they're going to adopt these bylaws.

[1:38:21] Voice 16: So I just wanted to put that in there.

[1:38:23] Voice 16: Thank

[1:38:26] Trustee Busheikin: you. So just, you know, we've heard two people who are in favor of 500. I said 700. Can I just see that the Thumb-O-Meter for 700?

[1:38:40] Trustee Busheikin: Thumb

[1:38:41] Voice 10: -O-Meter 700.

[1:38:43] Trustee Busheikin: Okay. Trustee Patrick, any thoughts? Okay. So then let's have that go down to 700.

[1:38:50] Trustee Busheikin: hundred. And then that means that it can be up to eight fifty within that 20 percent ballpark or

[1:38:57] Trustee Busheikin: down to just over five hundred, depending what LTCs want. And we'll see how that goes and monitor

[1:39:02] Trustee Busheikin: it. Quite honestly, we we we have one temporary use permit and we've had two applications in six

[1:39:11] Trustee Busheikin: years since we started to allow them. So it's kind of funny that this is getting all the attention.

[1:39:17] Trustee Busheikin: mentioned but um there you have it uh so any other comments on the fees bylaw and the supporting

[1:39:27] Trustee Busheikin: material okay trustee long rice uh

[1:39:30] Voice 11: just a couple things in terms of the uh the renewal fee i i

[1:39:35] Voice 11: agree i agree a lot with uh trustee mod about we're supposed to be doing actual average costs

[1:39:42] Voice 11: So we have to be cognizant of that and whatever rate we set of that that it's not too high over the actual cost

[1:39:48] Voice 11: but

[1:39:49] Voice 11: Good. Another point is number 12

[1:39:53] Voice 11: temporary use permit for residents use

[1:39:55] Voice 11: Where it says 95 m2 that could be 95 square meters or

[1:40:01] Voice 11: 95 meters squared. Well 95 meters squared is huge

[1:40:07] Voice 11: 95 square meters. Is it just over a thousand square feet?

[1:40:11] Voice 11: so what i don't like to see is just uh that terminology unless it should be written out i

[1:40:17] Voice 11: believe 95 square meters which would be i think 1200 square feet if you think of 95 meters squared

[1:40:25] Voice 11: that's 95 meters by 95 meters that's huge and there's debate about what you know and so i think

[1:40:34] Voice 11: that just to be aware

[1:40:35] Trustee Busheikin: to that case i'm just going to suggest like i'm looking at the time here um

[1:40:39] Voice 11: if

[1:40:39] Trustee Busheikin: there's other things like and that is a really good point um but if there's other things of that

[1:40:44] Trustee Busheikin: nature that are are truly more editorial you can contact staff separately

[1:40:48] Voice 11: okay yeah one one final

[1:40:51] Voice 11: i've noted that one yeah under table three subdivision referrals uh number one we said

[1:40:58] Voice 11: a thousand dollars base fee but we don't have the additional uh uh lots beyond uh one we used to

[1:41:10] Voice 11: have that in our in our current one the first lot so much and each additional a lot of three i think

[1:41:17] Voice 11: it was like three hundred dollars or something and it was a

[1:41:20] Voice 11: three lot subdivision it's not a lot

[1:41:23] Voice 11: of money but if you get a 20 lot subdivision it adds up.

[1:41:29] Voice 1: So maybe Nerissi you want to comment on

[1:41:32] Voice 1: this one in in the existing fee bylaws we do have a hundred dollars per additional lot fee

[1:41:38] Voice 1: with no top-end limit on that so it could so the most extreme we had was on Gambia with the Keats

[1:41:48] Voice 1: DL 696 where they had a subdivision Berlin Strada which would end up with 120 lots or something

[1:41:57] Voice 1: anyway the fee was well over ten thousand dollars but the actual cost of process that was nowhere

[1:42:03] Voice 1: near that just for the review of the of their subdivision so that got a little extreme but

[1:42:10] Voice 1: it um you know

[1:42:12] Voice 1: that yeah so anyway um but i know nurse and i did talk about this and most of the

[1:42:18] Voice 1: subdivisions coming in are not that big so the thousand dollars would cover it but you are allowed

[1:42:25] Voice 1: to charge a fee per lot under the legislation as as well so yeah if you want to change that so

[1:42:32] Voice 1: nurse did you have any well

[1:42:33] Voice 8: i'm just gonna say um like

[1:42:34] Voice 8: we've sort of come around to this a few times

[1:42:38] Voice 8: And I think the rationale in leaving it at a single fee was that if we're thinking about cost recovery, that the additional lots don't add a significant amount more to the time spent by a planner to review the referral.

[1:42:56] Voice 8: That was the rationale at not including the per lot piece.

[1:43:03] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you.

[1:43:04] Trustee Busheikin: I see Trustee Patrick, Stanfield, and then Peterson.

[1:43:07] Trustee Busheikin: again

[1:43:08] Trustee Patrick: looking at other municipalities some of them have a fee for like you know two to three

[1:43:14] Trustee Patrick: lots or one to two lots or you know some of them have just a separate fee for if you're just doing

[1:43:19] Trustee Patrick: a lot adjustment so there are other models out there thank you

[1:43:27] Trustee Patrick: Kate Louise

[1:43:28] Trustee Stamford: I just wanted to

[1:43:31] Trustee Stamford: comment like looking at that particular instance where you're looking at a potential 120 extra

[1:43:37] Trustee Stamford: extra lots, a hundred dollars times.

[1:43:41] Trustee Stamford: Isn't that where we bring in that extraordinary costs agreement?

[1:43:47] Trustee Stamford: Because, and does that supersede it or is that over and above?

[1:43:52] Trustee Stamford: How does that work?

[1:43:54] Voice 1: Yeah, that's a good point.

[1:43:55] Voice 1: We've never actually used it on subdivisions.

[1:43:57] Voice 1: I don't think we've used cost recovery for application processing,

[1:44:02] Voice 1: like rezonings mostly.

[1:44:03] Voice 1: obviously um the trigger really is when you get to enough lots to create um uh park dedication

[1:44:11] Voice 1: requirements and then there's negotiations with the landowner and usually the regional district

[1:44:17] Voice 1: on on that so that does add a little bit more time

[1:44:20] Trustee Stamford: that's where i came

[1:44:21] Trustee Stamford: in with keats you know yeah

[1:44:24] Voice 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point.

[1:44:31] Voice 1: Because the way this is written, subdivision, it doesn't have a limit.

[1:44:36] Voice 1: So you could put a limit on the number of lots and then beyond that, it could be a different fee established.

[1:44:44] Voice 1: So, again, this is something we could come back to you in May, but it needs some direction from you on what you would like us to do or research and bring some suggestions back.

[1:44:56] Voice 1: yeah okay

[1:44:57] Trustee Busheikin: good and then i see planner chadwick had some comments and trustee peterson wanted to speak

[1:45:02] Trustee Busheikin: go ahead narissa um i'm actually i'm okay now okay uh tim yeah

[1:45:11] Voice 16: i i i recognize that uh you know

[1:45:15] Voice 16: mostly we're talking about cost recovery here but in terms of subdivision of like um multiple lots

[1:45:22] Voice 16: I actually feel that it's perfectly acceptable to charge a per lot fee, you know, and that type of development is exactly what I, I mean, large scale multiple lot development is exactly what I feel we're supposed to be trying to discourage if we can.

[1:45:45] Voice 16: And if we can't, you know, outright say it can't happen, then what we can do is, you know, make the developer pay for it a bit more, which I think is perfectly reasonable.

[1:45:57] Voice 16: reasonable um so i'm in favor of either as trustee patrick mentioned maybe we have a fee for

[1:46:05] Voice 16: you know a two or three lot and and then maybe we have another schedule for larger developments where

[1:46:13] Voice 16: those developers are out to make um money and big money and i i especially feel in those cases it's

[1:46:22] Voice 16: It's completely unreasonable for the taxpayer to be on the hook at all for anything that is basically, you know, all about profits.

[1:46:33] Voice 16: And so I'm very much in support of looking at a different structure for that.

[1:46:40] Trustee Busheikin: Go ahead, Kate Louise.

[1:46:44] Trustee Stamford: Yeah, again, because we mentioned Keats.

[1:46:47] Trustee Stamford: It is a different kind of situation where it's a land use contract.

[1:46:50] Trustee Stamford: contract it's a non-profit um that's that's executing a land use contract that's out of date

[1:46:58] Trustee Stamford: um so i don't want to go into the weeds on that too much i think adding a hundred dollars per

[1:47:05] Trustee Stamford: lot is reasonable but is there a way of moving outside that for these particular

[1:47:12] Trustee Stamford: particular, very specific cases like what's happened at DL 696. I don't know if there's

[1:47:20] Trustee Stamford: going to be more like that, of that complexity, of that size. It's certainly not what you would

[1:47:28] Trustee Stamford: consider a regular subdivision development. I'm not sure if you'll ever see that kind of

[1:47:36] Trustee Stamford: development again so that's all I know how to to to review this from I don't know what's happened

[1:47:42] Trustee Stamford: in the rest of the trust as far as that kind of size and complexity of subdivision

[1:47:50] Voice 3: thanks um Janine um well I just wanted to say we we had a hugely complicated subdivision of

[1:47:58] Voice 3: you know one neighbor got a little bit the other neighbor got the other little bit but I mean it

[1:48:02] Voice 3: It was a win-win for the island.

[1:48:03] Voice 3: So there again, we actually can have people doing subdivisions that are beneficial.

[1:48:09] Voice 3: And I do want to say, speaking to Trustee Peterson, if you feel that developers are

[1:48:15] Voice 3: taking advantage and subdividing and not being charged enough, also remember that you as

[1:48:19] Voice 3: a local trust committee have every ability to downzone.

[1:48:22] Voice 3: So in our communities, we should be putting in place zoning that is appropriate to our

[1:48:27] Voice 3: communities.

[1:48:28] Voice 3: communities and if we want to penalize people taking advantage of what we said they could have

[1:48:33] Voice 3: i don't really feel comfortable with that um but anyway it's going back to the original in terms of

[1:48:38] Voice 3: how many lots i'm not sure having more lots makes it more complicated our most complicated one

[1:48:45] Voice 3: was one that at the end of the day led to you know to a whole lot of neighbors doing the right

[1:48:51] Voice 3: thing with an awkward piece of land and kudos to them for doing that i wouldn't have wanted to see

[1:48:56] Voice 3: them charged a whole bunch more thank you thank

[1:48:59] Trustee Busheikin: you um i've put myself on the speaker's list um i

[1:49:05] Trustee Busheikin: am i'm open to having some kind of uh either per lot fee or over a certain amount it costs more

[1:49:13] Trustee Busheikin: um i do think um you know much as i you know really in many ways i'm in agreement of the

[1:49:21] Trustee Busheikin: principle of what trustee peterson was saying i i agree with janine that we need to have zoning

[1:49:26] Trustee Busheikin: zoning that we feel is appropriate and that's where we stop subdivision that is not appropriate.

[1:49:34] Trustee Busheikin: And I know that down zoning takes strong nerves, but it may be, or just a stricter regulations

[1:49:45] Trustee Busheikin: of how subdivision can work. However, what I'm hearing is that at a certain amount, a

[1:49:50] Trustee Busheikin: certain size of subdivision does become more complex because of part dedication. And I

[1:49:55] Trustee Busheikin: And I believe there can be, you know, transportation and road issues that need more work to make sure that they fit with the OCP and things like that.

[1:50:04] Trustee Busheikin: And so maybe just to reflect that a per lot fee or a higher fee of subdivisions of a certain size would be called for.

[1:50:14] Trustee Busheikin: and i'm wondering if i could just go to the thumb thermometer thermometer about if we want to ask

[1:50:20] Trustee Busheikin: staff to bring back suggestions for a tiered approach to subdivision uh review fees okay

[1:50:31] Trustee Busheikin: i'm seeing some thumbs i'm seeing total thumbs up so um people on the phone any particular input

[1:50:39] Trustee Busheikin: put okay so then staff you have direction to come back with with something um could you just

[1:50:48] Voice 1: yeah i'd like a resolution for that just so we clear

[1:50:52] Trustee Busheikin: what we're coming back with

[1:50:53] Voice 1: okay

[1:50:54] Trustee Busheikin: would someone like to make a resolution um i'll try uh and please staff and uh trustees

[1:51:04] Trustee Busheikin: let me know if this is correct that the rpc requests staff to uh bring back uh suggestions

[1:51:11] Trustee Busheikin: questions for a tiered approach, like with tiers, T-I-E-R, a tiered approach to subdivision

[1:51:23] Trustee Busheikin: review

[1:51:23] Voice 3: fees. And I'll second that. And I think tiers could be T-E-A-R-S too.

[1:51:32] Voice 10: Yes.

[1:51:34] Trustee Busheikin: Of all kinds. Okay. So it's moved and seconded. I don't

[1:51:39] Voice 16: want to speak to it.

[1:51:40] Trustee Busheikin: hopefully a friendly

[1:51:40] Trustee Busheikin: amendment hopefully

[1:51:42] Voice 16: a friendly amendment could we do could we do

[1:51:45] Voice 16: tiered uh tiered and or per lot just to capture the you know per illogical just for staff's

[1:51:54] Voice 16: clarity that we want to look at both of those options sure

[1:51:58] Trustee Busheikin: tiered and or per lot is everyone

[1:51:59] Trustee Busheikin: fine with that i understand that really we all own the the um motion once it's moved and seconded

[1:52:04] Trustee Busheikin: okay any further discussion so i'm going to ask everyone to vote um with the electronic hand if

[1:52:12] Trustee Busheikin: you can and uh director muller can you take your hand down so i don't count you as voting

[1:52:18] Trustee Busheikin: yeah sure

[1:52:19] Trustee Busheikin: my hand is up okay thank you my hands up okay one two three four five hang on let me

[1:52:27] Trustee Busheikin: just take my time with this one two three four it's hard to count because i scroll five six

[1:52:38] Voice 1: um if i may at the top at the top next to where it says panelists there should be a little hand

[1:52:43] Voice 1: up with a number next to it and that's the number of hands up so you don't have to count oh great

[1:52:48] Trustee Busheikin: it's very hard to see seven thank you amazing so seven in favor lower hands and anyone against

[1:52:57] Trustee Busheikin: I'll just give everyone a chance okay anyone against okay so that passes thank you um thank

[1:53:03] Trustee Busheikin: you everyone um is there anything else to do with the fees portion of this section okay I would like

[1:53:15] Trustee Busheikin: to note that we're almost at noon and I I am can't exactly say I apologize for not moving as

[1:53:21] Trustee Busheikin: faster because I really feel we needed to have all these discussions um but I does mean that

[1:53:27] Trustee Busheikin: this meeting is likely to go longer than three o'clock because really the discussion um at 6.1

[1:53:34] Trustee Busheikin: was meant to be a a workshop type event where we really have time to get into those complex issues

[1:53:42] Trustee Busheikin: um and i so i don't know um there's a lot to discuss because there's still the question that

[1:53:51] Trustee Busheikin: trustee patrick brought up of the bigger picture of of um cost well of of how much we're really

[1:53:58] Trustee Busheikin: going to be adding to the budget of the Islands Trust through all these changes

[1:54:04] Trustee Busheikin: and fees as they roll out and are we happy with that and what else we can do

[1:54:08] Trustee Busheikin: about it and I don't know how much we can solve that and then there is still

[1:54:12] Trustee Busheikin: the the rest of this there's the DAI bylaw that's still here so what I'd like

[1:54:22] Trustee Busheikin: like to do is try and finish up um 5.1 application processes in about 15 more minutes if we can

[1:54:32] Trustee Busheikin: and then um you know what how about we because i'm realizing we haven't had a bio break and i am

[1:54:39] Trustee Busheikin: sorry for that how about if we go for a lunch break now come back finish up application processes

[1:54:46] Trustee Busheikin: very quickly and i'm going to ask that we move through the verbal updates um really quickly

[1:54:51] Trustee Busheikin: because I think there's no decision-making to be had there

[1:54:54] Trustee Busheikin: and then get onto the discussion in the afternoon.

[1:54:56] Trustee Busheikin: So that we take a half hour lunch break,

[1:54:58] Trustee Busheikin: gather your thoughts so that any further discussion

[1:55:00] Trustee Busheikin: will be quick.

[1:55:01] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, so let's come back at 1225.

[1:55:05] Trustee Busheikin: That's half an hour for lunch.

[1:55:07] Trustee Busheikin: And thank you everyone.

[1:55:08] Trustee Busheikin: This was a really great discussion.

[1:55:10] Trustee Busheikin: I think we're, we deeply have gotten into this

[1:55:13] Trustee Busheikin: and understand the nuances and complexities.

[1:55:15] Trustee Busheikin: So good work.

[1:55:18] Trustee Busheikin: 1225.

[2:26:09] Trustee Busheikin: uh welcome um everyone i think we've got almost everyone

[2:26:17] Trustee Busheikin: just see

[2:26:42] Voice 4: janine and david are you there on the phone i

[2:26:46] Trustee Maude: am here hi

[2:26:48] Trustee Busheikin: janine are you out there yet

[2:26:52] Trustee Busheikin: to find my unmute i'm here okay well we're just it looks like jane hasn't quite appeared yet but

[2:27:00] Trustee Busheikin: she's on her way i see that may be her coming um so i'll recall the meeting and thank you um

[2:27:07] Trustee Busheikin: Um, so it is about 1230. And we still have a lot of work to do. It would be great to settle down

[2:27:20] Trustee Busheikin: into our work about the projects and local planning service delivery within that half an

[2:27:26] Trustee Busheikin: hour. So where we left it, I think we had really finished up with all the work on the fees bylaw,

[2:27:33] Trustee Busheikin: there is the DAI bylaw and then if I can just ask staff I'm assuming that the request for decision

[2:27:40] Trustee Busheikin: on page 43 will just come back to us at our next meeting um you know with the the other the

[2:27:49] Trustee Busheikin: documents reference being um you know changed um or options for changes we've directed is that what

[2:27:57] Trustee Busheikin: will happen yeah

[2:27:58] Voice 1: so we'll come back to the next meeting uh bring that RFD back to you and we'll

[2:28:03] Voice 1: just update it to reflect the changes that you asked us to make today and then we'll also based

[2:28:09] Voice 1: on your resolution uh come back with some options for the subdivision as well

[2:28:14] Voice 10: and

[2:28:15] Voice 1: hopefully that

[2:28:16] Voice 1: will be good and you're ready to send that to council okay

[2:28:19] Trustee Busheikin: thank you so is there anything that

[2:28:24] Trustee Busheikin: um anyone feels they need to um bring up today that would require staff to do more work between

[2:28:32] Trustee Busheikin: now and then, anything to do with the DAI, the Development Application Information By-law?

[2:28:39] Trustee Busheikin: Go ahead, Case.

[2:28:40] Voice 11: Yeah, I was trying to understand the interrelate, the relationship between the

[2:28:47] Voice 11: Terms of Reference and the Development Approval Information Report, and because I originally had

[2:28:54] Voice 11: thought it was for Development Approval Information was for certain things, and the

[2:29:00] Voice 11: the terms of reference was for zoning bylaws.

[2:29:03] Voice 11: It was sort of like two different streams.

[2:29:05] Voice 11: But then when

[2:29:06] Voice 11: I looked at the bylaw,

[2:29:08] Voice 11: it seems to me that it almost reads as if the terms

[2:29:12] Voice 11: of reference is as a preliminary report

[2:29:17] Voice 11: that's done before the development approval

[2:29:18] Voice 11: information report is done.

[2:29:21] Voice 11: And I referenced that because of section 21,

[2:29:25] Voice 11: 21, which is of the bylaw,

[2:29:30] Voice 11: let me find the page.

[2:29:34] Voice 11: It's on 21.

[2:29:39] Voice 11: I do appreciate the numbering system in this bylaw.

[2:29:42] Voice 11: I find it much more readily readable, understandable.

[2:29:48] Voice 11: At 21, hold on a second here.

[2:29:57] Voice 11: Under the terms of reference,

[2:30:04] Voice 11: Yeah, it says, it says may require terms of reference for the preparation of the DAI report.

[2:30:10] Voice 11: And so I was just trying to understand the difference between the two.

[2:30:16] Voice 11: Are they two separate streams or is actually the terms of reference a preliminary report that's provided within and then staff have a 20-day timeline to respond to that.

[2:30:28] Voice 11: And then they get the DIA report as a result, and then they have that 30-day timeline to respond.

[2:30:34] Voice 11: on so i just didn't quite understand the relationship and i was hoping i could get

[2:30:38] Voice 11: some clarity on that yeah

[2:30:40] Voice 1: i'm just going down to the bylaw and then if you can point out what

[2:30:43] Voice 1: you're looking at that might help us okay

[2:30:46] Voice 11: okay well first of all section three the definition

[2:30:49] Voice 11: of dia report includes zoning changes and tups in other words the development approval

[2:30:58] Voice 11: information reports are required for all development applications and development

[2:31:03] Voice 11: an application includes the zoning the tup and the um oh for the third one is now um

[2:31:11] Voice 11: sorry what

[2:31:14] Voice 1: page number young of the application of the policy or the bylaw the bylaw no i'm just

[2:31:20] Voice 1: talking about me

[2:31:20] Trustee Busheikin: i'm just gonna step in here like i'm because i'm having trouble even following in

[2:31:25] Trustee Busheikin: and finding what's connected to what and i'm wondering if this is primarily about maybe

[2:31:29] Trustee Busheikin: adjusting the wording to make it more clear yeah i

[2:31:32] Trustee Busheikin: think that could be done behind the scenes okay

[2:31:35] Voice 11: that's fine i'll do that

[2:31:37] Trustee Busheikin: yeah if it's of substance we need to know about it okay and i assume that's

[2:31:41] Trustee Busheikin: fine with everyone else and if you're yeah okay good and if

[2:31:45] Trustee Busheikin: it's you know somewhat of substance

[2:31:47] Trustee Busheikin: but really a matter of wording then maybe staff can report it at the next meeting explain this

[2:31:51] Trustee Busheikin: has been changed and make sure we all understand why okay thank you so that thing says steph do

[2:31:59] Trustee Busheikin: Do you need a resolution to bring all this back?

[2:32:06] Voice 1: Probably be a good idea, just so we're clear.

[2:32:08] Voice 1: Yeah, maybe just ask us to come back

[2:32:11] Voice 1: with the amendments as requested.

[2:32:15] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, could someone make that motion?

[2:32:20] Trustee Busheikin: Go ahead, Kate-Louise.

[2:32:22] Trustee Stamford: I move that the Regional Planning Committee

[2:32:25] Trustee Stamford: request staff to review the edits suggested

[2:32:36] Trustee Stamford: during this meeting dated March 17th

[2:32:42] Trustee Stamford: and return to the committee at the next meeting

[2:32:47] Trustee Stamford: with those, oh, I'm terrible at this,

[2:32:52] Trustee Stamford: with those edits inserted.

[2:32:57] Trustee Stamford: Maybe

[2:32:58] Voice 7: to that effect.

[2:33:02] Voice 7: I'll second that.

[2:33:06] Trustee Busheikin: trustee stanford you get the gold star but i would say for what sorry um uh

[2:33:13] Trustee Busheikin: it's let's see how that came out um

[2:33:22] Trustee Stamford: um oh my battery's dying that's not helping how

[2:33:26] Trustee Busheikin: about if sorry um don't take this

[2:33:28] Trustee Stamford: how

[2:33:28] Trustee Busheikin: about if director marla could you suggest some wording

[2:33:35] Voice 1: just give me a second let's see what we have here okay i

[2:33:40] Trustee Busheikin: think it needs to reference what

[2:33:41] Trustee Busheikin: the edits are in in you know just even in relationship to the application processing

[2:33:46] Trustee Busheikin: services so

[2:33:48] Voice 1: here's what i have uh you could i can send this over to robert so he can insert it in

[2:33:54] Voice 1: so request staff to come back with the following edits add reference to the to the fee bylaw

[2:34:01] Voice 1: okay add

[2:34:03] Voice 1: referral of a license uh in the whereas section remove the words and benefit from

[2:34:09] Voice 1: definition of community benefit uh robert i'll send this to you so don't you don't have to write

[2:34:14] Voice 1: all that add subject to section 4 in section 3.1 and reference back to section 3.1 in section 4

[2:34:21] Voice 1: in section 5.3 set withholding amount of a hundred dollars for all types of applications

[2:34:28] Voice 1: applications, delete 611 and just rewrite 6.1 to reflect that. In 7.1, say fees in section

[2:34:39] Voice 1: 3.1 increased by 2% on April 1st. That's rewording. I'm not going to mention the typo. We'll get

[2:34:47] Voice 1: that later. Sorry. For citing use permits, correct the fee to $250. In table 2, line

[2:34:58] Voice 1: 12, spell out 95 square meters. Table 2, line 13, reduce from 1150 to 700. And table 2, line 14,

[2:35:07] Voice 1: reduce from 500 to 350. That's it. So I'll send those to Robert to put into the resolution.

[2:35:14] Trustee Busheikin: Okay. Thank you. Well, Kate Louise, how come you couldn't just, you know, remember all that?

[2:35:23] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you. No, I think that we needed staff for that.

[2:35:26] Trustee Busheikin: yeah

[2:35:27] Trustee Stamford: then sorry i i didn't have it in front of me but we should uh the regional planning

[2:35:33] Trustee Stamford: requests staff to make the following adjustments to the and that's what i don't have in front of

[2:35:40] Trustee Stamford: me because my ipad was borrowed and now now i've got roadblocks um that

[2:35:50] Voice 1: that's fine i think we

[2:35:51] Voice 1: will get it just that staff um amend the uh draft fee policy yes as follows and then we'll have that

[2:35:59] Voice 1: list

[2:35:59] Trustee Stamford: okay okay sorry about that folks i said

[2:36:03] Voice 10: i didn't know how

[2:36:04] Trustee Stamford: unprepared

[2:36:05] Trustee Busheikin: i was i put my hand up

[2:36:08] Trustee Busheikin: i mean staff have been taking notes the whole time and that's a good thing so we'll just wait for it

[2:36:14] Trustee Busheikin: to get up on the screen um so that we are um within due process and then what i'd like to do

[2:36:20] Trustee Busheikin: is like maybe give us 10 minutes to discuss the bigger, more political question that Trustee

[2:36:24] Trustee Busheikin: Patrick raised. I don't think we'll necessarily solve it, but I think it would be good to have

[2:36:27] Trustee Busheikin: a little bit of discussion about it, which is that if, and tell me, Laura, if I'm paraphrasing

[2:36:34] Trustee Busheikin: you correctly, is what are our thoughts about the, I don't know, see, what are our thoughts

[2:36:43] Trustee Busheikin: about the fact that there may be some, that the increase to the budget, the increase of

[2:36:53] Trustee Busheikin: of income to the budget based on the new fees

[2:36:55] Trustee Busheikin: may not meet some trustees expectations

[2:37:00] Trustee Busheikin: or may not be as significant as some had hoped.

[2:37:04] Trustee Busheikin: And I think that's the question, is that correct?

[2:37:10] Trustee Patrick: Yes, I think that is a question.

[2:37:13] Trustee Patrick: And I know, and I think David was following

[2:37:17] Trustee Patrick: cause I was also trying to think of where do we go

[2:37:19] Trustee Patrick: with that question as I was thinking of posing

[2:37:21] Trustee Patrick: the question

[2:37:22] Trustee Patrick: And part of this is having the realistic conversation. There is, when we all in the financial planning committee have to go through all those, you know, pages of little numbers, there's the, you know, there's the planning expense numbers that tend to be, you know, clumped together into one big number.

[2:37:43] Trustee Patrick: And then you have the revenue of what we get from applications.

[2:37:46] Trustee Patrick: And I think that's probably the source of the tension is people looking at the revenue

[2:37:53] Trustee Patrick: and comparing it to the cost.

[2:37:55] Trustee Patrick: And I know David has good explanations as to what's there.

[2:38:00] Trustee Patrick: And that might be before this gets into the financial planning committee realm where they

[2:38:07] Trustee Patrick: have this conversation, we may want to have a good conversation in either the April meeting

[2:38:12] Trustee Patrick: of you know how to show this better you know does it need to be better aligned in the financial

[2:38:19] Trustee Patrick: planning so people can see where this revenue is related to this work um or or or something but i

[2:38:26] Trustee Patrick: just know that there is an expectation that uh you know we're gonna have some hard conversations

[2:38:31] Trustee Patrick: next year because our surplus draws are not we're not going to be able to use that uh that money

[2:38:37] Trustee Patrick: like we have in the past so there's going to be some hard conversations so anyway i think we have

[2:38:42] Trustee Patrick: have to talk about this more okay um

[2:38:45] Trustee Stamford: kate louise i i recognize we want to get on to the next

[2:38:50] Trustee Stamford: subject so i think this is far bigger than just diving in right now um but there is one um or

[2:38:58] Trustee Stamford: there's a few people that have looked at this as the panacea for for

[2:39:03] Trustee Busheikin: costs actually i'm just

[2:39:04] Trustee Busheikin: going to step in here because i noticed the motion is on the table so let's okay let's do that and

[2:39:10] Trustee Busheikin: And then then come back to this. So this motion has been made. I don't think it needs to be read

[2:39:19] Trustee Busheikin: out again. It's moved and seconded by someone. Yep. Okay. And I think that you made it trustee

[2:39:29] Trustee Busheikin: Stanford that you made the motion in your way. I make the motion. Yeah. Okay. Any further

[2:39:37] Trustee Busheikin: discussion hearing none can everyone in favor raise your element

[2:39:42] Trustee Busheikin: oh go ahead what sorry uh

[2:39:47] Trustee Busheikin: discussion uh

[2:39:51] Voice 16: sorry do just do we want to add a reference to the application processing fees

[2:39:55] Voice 16: bylaw in this motion and we

[2:39:57] Voice 10: want to and

[2:39:59] Voice 16: we want to reference that we're going to ask

[2:40:01] Voice 16: uh staff to bring it back to us at our may meeting i

[2:40:05] Trustee Stamford: think that's coming yeah

[2:40:07] Trustee Busheikin: okay i

[2:40:08] Trustee Busheikin: think it could

[2:40:09] Trustee Busheikin: so we could add that after if the following ones to the application processing um

[2:40:17] Trustee Busheikin: and uh bring it back to the regional planning committee and that's everyone consents to that

[2:40:27] Trustee Busheikin: change okay thank you uh okay any further discussion okay hearing none um could everyone

[2:40:38] Trustee Busheikin: one in favor uh raise your electronic hand dodds in favor okay thank you anyone oh i think maude

[2:40:47] Trustee Busheikin: has an electronic hand um yep okay i see it so that everyone's voted so i see seven in favor

[2:40:56] Trustee Busheikin: could everyone lower your electronic hand anyone against okay i don't even know how many people

[2:41:05] Trustee Busheikin: are here it's hard to keep track uh i guess there's seven of us uh so motion carries thank

[2:41:10] Trustee Busheikin: you that is a lot of work and a lot of detailed thought went into that and um now let's and i

[2:41:15] Trustee Busheikin: understand um that you as i said we're not going to solve this problem but let's at least uh touch

[2:41:20] Trustee Busheikin: on it so uh kate louise go ahead well

[2:41:24] Voice 10: yeah what

[2:41:25] Trustee Stamford: i was thinking is although there are a few trustees

[2:41:30] Trustee Stamford: that are are quite wedded to the idea that this can significantly change um the planning budget

[2:41:37] Trustee Stamford: um i think the bigger principle was that we were getting cost recovery uh whatever the the cost

[2:41:44] Trustee Stamford: it was more the principle of it than the the budget bottom line saying that there there's

[2:41:53] Trustee Stamford: going to be other um initiatives that are going to impact how our budget works and one of those

[2:41:59] Trustee Stamford: will be what we're going to discuss later with the regional planning review also with the

[2:42:05] Trustee Stamford: operational governance review I think they're all going to feed into that bigger question that we'll

[2:42:10] Trustee Stamford: have to deal with this trust council so although this might be a shock to some people as to the

[2:42:18] Trustee Stamford: minimal difference I think it really we really do have to understand and I it what hit home for me

[2:42:26] Trustee Stamford: was at our last meeting when director marler said well the majority of the work or a lot of the work

[2:42:33] Trustee Stamford: that the planners do are are queries and that just is not reflected anywhere and and so that

[2:42:39] Trustee Stamford: really sort of set the bar for me um and that is just the cost of doing business so i i think it

[2:42:46] Trustee Stamford: is important but it's going to have to come in reference to other initiatives that we're already

[2:42:50] Trustee Stamford: working with right now thank

[2:42:54] Trustee Busheikin: you uh just when i don't have my window open with a hand uh sorry

[2:42:58] Trustee Busheikin: about that trustee peterson i'm now monitoring tim

[2:43:04] Voice 16: go ahead yeah thank you chair uh uh uh thank

[2:43:07] Voice 16: you chair i agree in large part with uh trustee stanford there and i think um it might be helpful

[2:43:14] Voice 16: uh when we bring this to trust council that we could uh maybe have a tack a note of explanation

[2:43:23] Voice 16: on the reality. I mean, when we started this project, we were looking at the disparity between

[2:43:31] Voice 16: what it costs to process these applications and what applicants were paying. And certainly my

[2:43:38] Voice 16: sense this whole time has been that we're trying to, you know, narrow that gap and make it a bit

[2:43:44] Voice 16: more fair in terms of um the general taxpayer and um you know although the the uh additional revenue

[2:43:56] Voice 16: realized you know assuming every ltc implements this uh model bylaw um may not be in the thousands

[2:44:05] Voice 16: of dollars it is helpful perhaps to look at it in terms of uh you know projected out in terms of a

[2:44:10] Voice 16: of a percentage of what those fees are

[2:44:12] Voice 16: rather than $20,000 doesn't seem like much in the budget,

[2:44:17] Voice 16: but $20,000 as compared to 120,000 percentage wise,

[2:44:24] Voice 16: it's much more significant to look at that that way.

[2:44:27] Voice 16: I just think maybe we should consider framing,

[2:44:33] Voice 16: something about the intent as we deliver the work

[2:44:38] Voice 16: to trust council for consideration and i'm not sure how some trustees have decided that it was

[2:44:48] Voice 16: going to be a significant um you know increase in terms of the overall budget because i certainly

[2:44:54] Voice 16: never felt that way but we're just trying to make it a bit more fair for the general tax

[2:45:00] Voice 16: thank

[2:45:03] Trustee Busheikin: you i put myself on the speaker's list and i i want to thank um the previous trustees who've

[2:45:09] Trustee Busheikin: spoken and really clarified uh what are that this really was about a particular goal which it it has

[2:45:16] Trustee Busheikin: achieved around cost recovery um and uh that's important and um i think there's

[2:45:28] Trustee Busheikin: there's a lot at play and i think um if i because another thing i've heard that's related to this is

[2:45:34] Trustee Busheikin: is a sense of wanting to make it a little bit harder

[2:45:38] Trustee Busheikin: to do development on the islands

[2:45:41] Trustee Busheikin: and that fees could be part of that.

[2:45:45] Trustee Busheikin: And, you know, I think again, that points back to,

[2:45:51] Trustee Busheikin: you know, the comments made about,

[2:45:54] Trustee Busheikin: but that Trustee Dodd's made about,

[2:45:56] Trustee Busheikin: well, if we don't like what developers are doing,

[2:45:58] Trustee Busheikin: then we need to change what's in our LUVs and OCPs

[2:46:02] Trustee Busheikin: to make it not possible.

[2:46:04] Trustee Busheikin: So, you know, for instance, there was a air photo of a clear cut lot. And I have seen those clear cut lots on Denman, you know, where someone buys four acres or something and they go, because then they just plant grass, you know, because that's what they want.

[2:46:24] Trustee Busheikin: They want that lawn effect or something. And, you know, we do have many powers and may get more powers to not let that happen, whether it's setbacks from the sea, increasing them, lot coverage, development permit areas is the classic tool.

[2:46:47] Trustee Busheikin: so in some ways if we feel like developers are just getting a free ride and running rampant we

[2:46:53] Trustee Busheikin: may need to to you know switch the conversation away from from fees because and certainly i'm i

[2:46:59] Trustee Busheikin: am hearing and i get the point we can't tailor this to every island it has to work for all islands

[2:47:04] Trustee Busheikin: and there are you know a number of islands where there's not a lot of big commercial type

[2:47:10] Trustee Busheikin: type development. It's small, small, very small businesses, it's community organizations, it's

[2:47:20] Trustee Busheikin: long-term residents wanting to do something a little different on their property. And

[2:47:25] Trustee Busheikin: it's not big developments that are really changing things or having big impacts. And so it's,

[2:47:31] Trustee Busheikin: yeah, I'm happy with where this these bio has ended up. So that's my comment. I see

[2:47:37] Trustee Busheikin: trustee wolverton and then long rice i

[2:47:41] Voice 7: apologize for eating my lunch because i had to take the

[2:47:44] Voice 7: dogs for a walk um but um i i think the it also points to a real need for good education

[2:47:52] Voice 7: about the interrelationship of the environment and so that when people are contemplating

[2:47:59] Voice 7: clear-cutting their their property to plant grass that there there's information also available to

[2:48:05] Voice 7: them that may help them understand why that's not such a good thing to do and so i think the more

[2:48:12] Voice 7: materials that we have and can get out into our community and the conversations especially when

[2:48:17] Voice 7: we can gather again i i think those are really important thank

[2:48:23] Trustee Busheikin: you uh thank you uh trustee long

[2:48:26] Trustee Busheikin: rice yeah

[2:48:27] Voice 11: okay yeah uh what the point about communication is an important one and i think

[2:48:32] Voice 11: it should when we whatever we put out in terms of the fee bylaw should provide some background

[2:48:37] Voice 11: information on the extent of actual recovery in the past versus what we're moving to now just to

[2:48:43] Voice 11: demonstrate to the people this is not arbitrary this is tied to actual costs that were incurred

[2:48:49] Voice 11: so that i think that that would be an important piece of it of this uh the whole intent of this

[2:48:55] Voice 11: was to get to closer to the 100% of the average cost.

[2:49:00] Voice 11: I'm not sure we're going to achieve that

[2:49:02] Voice 11: or get very near that, in my view.

[2:49:05] Voice 11: I think it's going to be a lot less than council

[2:49:08] Voice 11: or some members of council anyway are expecting.

[2:49:11] Voice 11: So I'm a bit concerned about that.

[2:49:15] Voice 11: We are, you know, and I don't,

[2:49:17] Voice 11: it's not a matter of trying to stop development

[2:49:20] Voice 11: through the fees.

[2:49:20] Voice 11: It's really a matter of trying to cost recovery.

[2:49:23] Voice 11: That's what it's all about.

[2:49:24] Voice 10: Yeah.

[2:49:24] Voice 10: And,

[2:49:25] Voice 11: you know, not putting it on to all the other taxpayers.

[2:49:28] Voice 11: So, thank you.

[2:49:31] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you.

[2:49:33] Trustee Busheikin: Can people remember to take down their hands?

[2:49:37] Trustee Busheikin: Anyone else want to speak to this?

[2:49:39] Trustee Busheikin: Anyone on the phone?

[2:49:45] Trustee Busheikin: Okay.

[2:49:46] Trustee Busheikin: Well, thank you.

[2:49:47] Trustee Busheikin: And I'll just add one more thing that in terms of the cost of, I also, my ears perked up when I heard that the main draw on planners time was inquiries, which I think is a really important service.

[2:49:59] Trustee Busheikin: But, you know, I'm hoping that with a little now we have a little more communication staff for the next year and a new website coming and that it may be that we can provide some of the information to constituents without them needing to go for an inquiry.

[2:50:14] Trustee Busheikin: And I think that somewhere in the planning review also there is an intention to review some of the application guideline documents and that kind of thing.

[2:50:23] Trustee Busheikin: and I think I know people call me because they can't find something on the website or that

[2:50:28] Trustee Busheikin: something isn't clear to them like what does this mean and how do you apply and how do you do this

[2:50:32] Trustee Busheikin: and you know as we improve our communications maybe we can shave off some of that time spent

[2:50:38] Trustee Busheikin: on inquiries and okay anyone else okay thank you it has been a great discussion and we're

[2:50:47] Trustee Busheikin: going to move on so we're going to get some verbal updates go ahead staff and move us through

[2:50:54] Trustee Busheikin: 5.21 to 0.4.

[2:50:57] Voice 1: Yeah, I'll make this fairly quick. I'll take 5.21 and 5.24 together because they're

[2:51:05] Voice 1: both out with the same consultant. So these two projects are underway. The consultant sent me

[2:51:14] Voice 1: drafts of the reports yesterday, so I haven't had time to look at them yet. But I plan to do that

[2:51:21] Voice 1: and get back to them so they can finalize them for the end of the fiscal year so we'll have the

[2:51:28] Voice 1: reports by the end of March and we'll put them on your next agenda for receipt and then from there

[2:51:34] Voice 1: we'll decide where we're going with them whether you want to get staff to create draft bylaws out

[2:51:40] Voice 1: of them or just send the reports to council as is we'll you can have that decision at the next

[2:51:46] Voice 1: meeting uh for the freshwater sustainability strategy um just briefly i think william or

[2:51:54] Voice 1: narissa i'm not really sure which one was going to just speak to that one and william can give

[2:51:59] Voice 1: a quick update on the groundwater mapping that's currently underway i believe they're both online

[2:52:04] Voice 1: yeah

[2:52:04] Voice 8: sure i can speak uh briefly to the freshwater strategy so that's uh moving along we've got our

[2:52:08] Voice 8: our consultant working on the development of the the strategy we've had one um roundtable

[2:52:14] Voice 8: meeting with a number of representatives from a number of different agencies um we've established

[2:52:20] Voice 8: a culture cultural cultural knowledge holder advisory group um so the the purpose is to

[2:52:29] Voice 8: be able to provide some of the understanding of the relationship between water and cultural

[2:52:37] Voice 8: heritage in the region. And I would add it's a bit of a unique approach. Often in these processes,

[2:52:45] Voice 8: when you bring First Nations to the table, they're not necessarily able to share

[2:52:50] Voice 8: cultural values, it becomes more of a conversation about interest. So this way,

[2:52:56] Voice 8: we're hoping we'll be able to get, we'll be able to get a good understanding of those cultural

[2:53:02] Voice 8: knowledge and be able to share them um and on that there are we're wanting to organize a uh

[2:53:10] Voice 8: a learning opportunity for trustees and um and staff around cultural uh knowledge and our

[2:53:18] Voice 8: cultural knowledge holders are very um supportive and and i'm actually quite excited about providing

[2:53:24] Voice 8: that opportunity um to trustees and staff so we'll organize a um a learning opportunity

[2:53:32] Voice 8: in addition to that with respect to the the strategy um we'd also like to be uh we'd like

[2:53:39] Voice 8: to organize a a conversation with trustees related to the strategy so um it would really become it

[2:53:46] Voice 8: would be a special meeting of the of the regional planning committee so that's one thing um you

[2:53:52] Voice 8: David and I will work with Trustee Boucherkin to plan that and organize that.

[2:53:59] Voice 8: And I'm encouraging the Regional Planning Committee to invite other trustees to that as well.

[2:54:07] Voice 8: So that'll be an opportunity to really get an understanding of the process and also to be able to be engaged before it's actually put in the development of the strategy, before it's put directly in front of you to comment on.

[2:54:19] Voice 8: on. We've got our implementation projects, Warnby and Leskeeting, those are starting

[2:54:27] Voice 8: to come together in terms of defining the different elements of those. Our Indigenous

[2:54:36] Voice 8: youth portion will be having some clear conversation around that in April, and I'll likely be able

[2:54:43] Voice 8: to report back on on what that's going to look like at that point so um uh yeah things are moving

[2:54:50] Voice 8: along very well thank

[2:54:53] Trustee Busheikin: you any questions okay thank you uh so uh hi uh hello um william uh are you

[2:55:05] Trustee Busheikin: gonna report on groundwater mapping uh

[2:55:09] Voice 2: yeah hi everyone uh thank you chair i'll just give a quick

[2:55:13] Voice 2: update where we are at so um this year we uh undertook um the phase one of the groundwater

[2:55:21] Voice 2: mapping uh on denman hornby and gabriola and that's uh being undertaken by gw solutions

[2:55:31] Voice 2: and i just had a project meeting um last week and and they're getting really close um to their

[2:55:39] Voice 2: deliverables the we had a partnership with the province who increased the scope to include

[2:55:52] Voice 2: direct connection to surface water from groundwater which they use in when they adjudicate

[2:55:57] Voice 2: their groundwater licensing and the potential impact to environmental flow needs and so that's

[2:56:03] Voice 2: a really exciting deliverable that is coming and so under the memorandum of understanding with the

[2:56:09] Voice 2: province um i'm supervising that work and and and the province essentially gave um money to the

[2:56:19] Voice 2: project to to um to undertake that work so so the the applicant or sorry the applicant the

[2:56:26] Voice 2: the consultant is um going to report back to the island's trust on that one as well so that that's

[2:56:33] Voice 2: our priority to to get that because the there's some time where i receive that report and i'll

[2:56:41] Voice 2: do the review and make sure the deliverables are met and then that has to go to the province and

[2:56:45] Voice 2: that has to happen by the end of the year so that's at the end of the fiscal so that's um

[2:56:51] Voice 2: kind of the priority right now and then the reporting back on the groundwater uh recharge

[2:56:57] Voice 2: mapping will happen um i'm gonna get that that draft deliverable by the end of the year to

[2:57:02] Voice 2: to close out the project.

[2:57:06] Voice 2: And then there might be some, a little bit of updates,

[2:57:08] Voice 2: but that's really exciting.

[2:57:09] Voice 2: And another just side note,

[2:57:12] Voice 2: it's slowly morphing to the RPC table,

[2:57:16] Voice 2: but Nerissa and Robert Kojima and I had a discussion

[2:57:20] Voice 2: about advancing the phase three

[2:57:23] Voice 2: of the groundwater sustainability strategy,

[2:57:24] Voice 2: which is the implementation, looking at bylaws and OCP

[2:57:28] Voice 2: and other things that LTCs can do with a specific focus

[2:57:32] Voice 2: on Galliano and so that was a really great conversation and we have really are starting

[2:57:39] Voice 2: to define how regulations will fit to the groundwater mapping. So yeah, there's all

[2:57:47] Voice 2: systems go. This is the crunch time. Like I will remind the RBC that we didn't get our consultant

[2:57:55] Voice 2: in until november um and then they didn't really get working on this work till december um so

[2:58:02] Voice 2: they've been really diligent in getting this work done and um trust council just passed fifty

[2:58:07] Voice 2: thousand dollars to continue the the work and so we will be focusing on uh on how sound and

[2:58:15] Voice 2: luskete island as well as um i'm going to try to stuff in thetis in there because poor thetis was

[2:58:21] Voice 2: was left out of the last round so um salt spring well salt spring was the guinea pig for methodology

[2:58:30] Voice 2: version one and yes indeed we got to come back to do salt spring and and um refine and pay for the

[2:58:37] Voice 2: 3d model that um gw solutions just kind of made on the side of their desk and so salt spring needs

[2:58:44] Voice 2: to be addressed for sure so um perhaps trustee patrick and i can talk about that after to see

[2:58:49] Voice 2: if that will be at the RPC table, which it should be, or if we'd want to do it through SWPA.

[2:58:57] Trustee Busheikin: Wow, thank you. Any questions or comments? Okay, well, I just want to say, I mean,

[2:59:07] Trustee Busheikin: kind of wow is the summary. I'm trying to be more articulate than that. That all sounds very

[2:59:14] Trustee Busheikin: exciting. I'm very interested in seeing what comes out of this. As one of two RPC members,

[2:59:23] Trustee Busheikin: trustee Patrick and myself are on that.

[2:59:26] Trustee Busheikin: Oh, I'm sorry, and trustee Stanford,

[2:59:28] Trustee Busheikin: three of us from RPC who are on the,

[2:59:32] Trustee Busheikin: I believe we're a steering committee or round table

[2:59:36] Trustee Busheikin: for the freshwater sustainability strategy.

[2:59:38] Trustee Busheikin: That work is, I think we're all feeling

[2:59:41] Trustee Busheikin: really engaged by that, but this groundwater mapping

[2:59:46] Trustee Busheikin: and they thought that it's even,

[2:59:49] Trustee Busheikin: there's discussion about implementation is great news.

[2:59:52] Trustee Busheikin: So thank you for your wonderful work.

[2:59:54] Voice 2: Yeah, thank you.

[2:59:55] Voice 2: Yeah, the groundwater work was kind of the trailer on the cart that was before.

[3:00:00] Voice 2: the horses and now our cavalry arrived and our horses are leading the way now with the

[3:00:04] Voice 2: freshwater sustainability strategy so it's going to be now it's the time to to try to figure out

[3:00:10] Voice 2: how the the groundwater sustainability strategy is an implementation project under the freshwater

[3:00:16] Voice 2: sustainability strategy and that's going to take a little bit of time but i'm really encouraged by

[3:00:20] Voice 2: the southern gulf islands ltcs and and south spring island for for moving this work in front

[3:00:27] Voice 2: of the groundwater work in front of that and and i think we're in all good timing right now so

[3:00:33] Voice 2: thanks thank

[3:00:34] Trustee Busheikin: you good uh so um uh our pc members uh we're now on to uh 6.1 which is the discussion

[3:00:45] Trustee Busheikin: of local planning service delivery uh which uh was designed to be a sort of a workshop of about

[3:00:51] Trustee Busheikin: about uh i believe it was about uh three hours is that i know that we we talked about it um

[3:01:03] Trustee Busheikin: so yeah that would take us yeah there's duration 40 80 uh 160 so yeah maybe like maybe if we could

[3:01:15] Trustee Busheikin: do it in two hours and 45 minutes and then 15 minutes to wrap up the meeting and be out of

[3:01:19] Trustee Busheikin: here by four okay does that sound reasonable sure

[3:01:28] Voice 16: uh chair just uh let just let you know i i i can't

[3:01:33] Voice 16: stay any longer than 3 30 today i've got a medical um okay um

[3:01:38] Trustee Busheikin: well let's let's uh let's jump into

[3:01:41] Trustee Busheikin: this and i'm pleased to see um we've got um uh welcome heather car is here has joined us so we

[3:01:48] Trustee Busheikin: We are really well supported by staff in this discussion.

[3:01:52] Trustee Busheikin: And I've been looking forward to this discussion for years, really, without even knowing that it was what I was looking forward to.

[3:02:00] Trustee Busheikin: So I'm going to invite staff to lead us into this.

[3:02:03] Voice 1: Thank you. I'll just start us off.

[3:02:06] Voice 1: And then Heather has a PowerPoint presentation.

[3:02:10] Voice 1: It's going to be we're going to keep our part of this short.

[3:02:13] Voice 1: I just want to set you up.

[3:02:15] Voice 1: This has been divided up into four sessions really to try and capture these four different areas.

[3:02:21] Voice 1: And at the bottom of this outline, I've provided some notes about what we're kind of looking for in each session.

[3:02:29] Voice 1: So, you know, session one up in here, which is looking at the criteria to use when recommending which projects regional planning team should proceed.

[3:02:37] Voice 1: proceed so you know Heather will get into this a little bit but right now our only criteria is that

[3:02:45] Voice 1: we we have so many hours of planners allocated to the different islands so we got the three

[3:02:50] Voice 1: different regions and then we allocate the planners so the criteria is what those planners

[3:02:55] Voice 1: in those regions can handle uh before the saying we can't take any more and then obviously there's

[3:03:02] Voice 1: a bit of a balance about which LCP should go ahead of which other one but there's not really

[3:03:07] Voice 1: been a holistic way of looking at all of this islands trust wide and saying is there a better

[3:03:14] Voice 1: way to allocate our resources and identify which projects should go ahead so now that we have a

[3:03:22] Voice 1: regional planning team it becomes a necessity to create some criteria at least for the staff to be

[3:03:29] Voice 1: able to provide recommendations and then you can have obviously a political discussions about

[3:03:34] Voice 1: about which one should go when and where and how.

[3:03:36] Voice 1: So that's what this is intended to do

[3:03:38] Voice 1: is to try and get at that.

[3:03:39] Voice 1: So, and then of course, session two is related here.

[3:03:44] Voice 1: This is a number of projects.

[3:03:46] Voice 1: So we'll have a discussion around the current practice

[3:03:49] Voice 1: and any ideas you have that we could make some changes.

[3:03:55] Voice 1: Session three is looking at the process

[3:03:58] Voice 1: for approval of projects.

[3:03:59] Voice 1: So really what is the role

[3:04:01] Voice 1: of the different committees in this?

[3:04:03] Voice 1: like local planning committee for example should it have a role or does it just go from local trust

[3:04:09] Voice 1: committees to council and then the final session is we want to just talk to you a little bit about

[3:04:15] Voice 1: major and extraordinary projects and maybe my idea anyway is that we do this at the start of term

[3:04:25] Voice 1: where the each local trust committee will identify what they would like to achieve in the four years

[3:04:31] Voice 1: and then through some process we can program that in and then budget it so that we know what we're

[3:04:37] Voice 1: going to be doing at least for the major projects for the four-year period and then little projects

[3:04:42] Voice 1: can fit in like the cracks where there's space to do it so i'm going to just maybe ask i'm going to

[3:04:48] Voice 1: stop sharing so heather can share her screen and she'll take us through a few minutes on

[3:04:54] Voice 1: um powerpoint for the first session and then we can talk about the first session and then

[3:04:58] Voice 1: and we'll do a little PowerPoint for session two

[3:05:01] Voice 1: and then do it that way if that works for everybody.

[3:05:04] Voice 1: Okay, so through the chair,

[3:05:05] Voice 1: I'll just stop this and ask Heather to start hers.

[3:05:21] Voice 1: Okay, Heather, we can't hear you if you're talking.

[3:05:27] Voice 18: Sorry about that.

[3:05:29] Voice 18: Hello to all the trustees I haven't actually met.

[3:05:32] Voice 18: I think there are some.

[3:05:35] Voice 18: So I'm Heather Cowher, I'm the RPM for the Northern office.

[3:05:38] Voice 18: office. To start before, so each session, I have one or two slides to go with each session,

[3:05:47] Voice 18: not more than two, I don't think. But what I'd like to do is kind of start with an overall

[3:05:53] Voice 18: picture of some things that we've been considering as we've been looking at the regional planning

[3:05:57] Voice 18: team and what their role is. So just some things to consider. And I'm going to start with

[3:06:05] Voice 18: with kind of a big picture, how many projects we have overall for the whole trust.

[3:06:13] Voice 18: So the top priority projects, and the first column is all of the top priority projects for

[3:06:18] Voice 18: all the LTCs and all of the trust council committees. And then the second column is

[3:06:23] Voice 18: just the RPC and LTC, so land use planning related. The projects on the projects list,

[3:06:29] Voice 18: the ones that are sort of in the queue, and FUAL items as well, because those are sometimes many

[3:06:37] Voice 18: projects that staff are all working on and putting resources into. So those are some numbers.

[3:06:47] Voice 18: In terms of the projects sort of categorizing and the projects on the RPC list typically

[3:06:55] Voice 18: are to benefit multiple LTCs or maybe even trust-wide.

[3:06:59] Voice 18: So, and the nature of those projects tend to be data collection or development of guides

[3:07:07] Voice 18: and model bylaws and toolkits that the LTCs can use.

[3:07:12] Voice 18: And then for the LTC projects, what we've kind of looked at is each of those projects

[3:07:18] Voice 18: only benefits, typically only benefits that LTC.

[3:07:22] Voice 18: It doesn't have to.

[3:07:24] Voice 18: do. It could be combined with other LTCs, but at this point, that's, they're really kind of

[3:07:29] Voice 18: specific to that LTC. And the majority of the projects listed are, would end up in an OCP or

[3:07:36] Voice 18: LUB amendment. But there are some other types of projects that LTCs engage in. I've listed those

[3:07:43] Voice 18: here. So as we have been, we, and when I say we, I usually mean the RPMs and David and Russ,

[3:07:53] Voice 18: as we've been kind of discussing it in staff, is we've started to think of different categories

[3:08:01] Voice 18: of effort and budget and public engagement. And we've sort of come up with this framework,

[3:08:09] Voice 18: which is there are minor projects, major projects, and extraordinary projects.

[3:08:14] Voice 18: And the minor projects assume, and again, because the majority of the projects that we're dealing

[3:08:20] Voice 18: with for LTCs are OCPs and LUB amendments, which have a very basic legislative required process.

[3:08:29] Voice 18: There's sort of a minimal legislative process that a bylaw can go through,

[3:08:34] Voice 18: or it can be enhanced with extra public engagement or extra education or advocacy on top of it,

[3:08:41] Voice 18: right? An extraordinary would be maybe multiple years of public engagement,

[3:08:47] Voice 18: or multiple agencies are involved or something like that, right?

[3:08:51] Voice 18: So we have an idea of what's the scope of the project?

[3:08:55] Voice 18: What's the focus of the project?

[3:08:58] Voice 18: You know, are we just doing a text?

[3:09:01] Voice 18: Are we doing a minor text amendment, you know, changing the definition of dwelling?

[3:09:06] Voice 18: Or, you know, we have a small topic to deal with, cell towers or cisterns.

[3:09:14] Voice 18: but a major project would probably deal with a major you know several chapters of an OCP

[3:09:20] Voice 18: for instance or deal with a with a topic area that's big like housing generally so this is

[3:09:30] Voice 18: kind of how we've broken it down and so when you hear us talk about minor major and extraordinary

[3:09:35] Voice 18: this is the framework that we've started thinking about these things in so we've also sort of

[3:09:44] Voice 18: of started separating out the kinds of tasks and duties we think each of the teams will do.

[3:09:51] Voice 18: You know, we will have the regional planning team, and then we will still have teams in each region

[3:09:57] Voice 18: that are the local planning teams, is how I've labeled it. And these are the kinds of projects

[3:10:04] Voice 18: we see each of these teams doing in terms of the separation there. And then there's kind of

[3:10:14] Voice 18: three different functions. So the regional planning team is doing projects. They're doing

[3:10:19] Voice 18: what other local governments would call long-range planning. And they're only doing those things.

[3:10:26] Voice 18: The island planners who are left, who are not part of the regional planning team,

[3:10:31] Voice 18: but are in the north and south in particular, those island planners will continue to be LTC

[3:10:37] Voice 18: meeting managers, as I think of it. So they'll be that island planner for specific LTCs.

[3:10:44] Voice 18: They will also still be working on some project work, but it will be minor project work and major applications, rezonings and affordable housing projects and that sort of thing.

[3:10:58] Voice 18: The other planners who aren't island planners are typically going to be working on applications, referrals, and inquiries, which, as was alluded to before, takes up a lot of time.

[3:11:11] Voice 18: Yeah. And then there is this sort of idea that all the planners have been doing all the things

[3:11:18] Voice 18: and there might be a room in this whole thing for some planners to become specialists in certain

[3:11:27] Voice 18: topics. And one example is, you know, Marnie Egan in the Northern Office, she's been working on all

[3:11:35] Voice 18: of the riparian area bylaws. And so she's been become somewhat of an expert on riparian areas

[3:11:41] Voice 18: regulations and bylaws and what to do with those. And so she would probably, you know,

[3:11:47] Voice 18: there would be more recognition of her expertise in that area. And we would look to her to do

[3:11:52] Voice 18: things like that. So this kind of summarizes our prioritization process. You know, each LTC

[3:12:03] Voice 18: does come up with their own priorities, but it kind of starts with Trust Council

[3:12:09] Voice 18: Council providing budget for LTC projects. And the way that they do that right now is there is

[3:12:16] Voice 18: a line item in the budget that is an overall amount that's kind of roughly based on $3,000

[3:12:22] Voice 18: to $4,000 per LTC. And then projects are taken out of that budget. There's also line items

[3:12:31] Voice 18: in the budget for projects that have, that are over and above that. And there's no criteria

[3:12:38] Voice 18: currently for what is being funded. You don't have to meet any sort of criteria from Trust

[3:12:45] Voice 18: Council, including implementing the strategic plan, for instance. So each LTC and RPC, they

[3:12:54] Voice 18: They identify their top priorities.

[3:12:57] Voice 18: The FPC considers budget requests.

[3:13:00] Voice 18: The RPM determines whether or not there's staff capacity for the projects identified.

[3:13:05] Voice 18: And then there's a kind of an internal process on a first-come, first-served basis as to

[3:13:10] Voice 18: which projects get funded, because the LTCs and the RPC can identify projects at any time

[3:13:18] Voice 18: during the year.

[3:13:19] Voice 18: And they can drop projects at any time as well.

[3:13:23] Voice 18: and replace them with other projects. So that's kind of the starting framework for how we're

[3:13:31] Voice 18: looking at all of this. And so the first question, as David mentioned, is what criteria

[3:13:40] Voice 18: should be used when recommending which projects the regional planning team should actually be

[3:13:46] Voice 18: working on? And these are some options. So these are some things that we have thought about.

[3:13:53] Voice 18: out. Status quo is, it's identified by LTCs as a priority. But there are lots of other options.

[3:14:01] Voice 18: There's, it should implement the strategic plan. That could be a criteria. It benefits multiple

[3:14:10] Voice 18: LTCs. It adopts model bylaws, and that's prioritized. For those LTCs that have multiple

[3:14:18] Voice 18: multiple OCPs and LUBs. There are five of them. The RPT could be tasked with combining those,

[3:14:28] Voice 18: and those could be prioritized. And then in terms of the order in which major OCP and LUB

[3:14:35] Voice 18: amendments are made can be determined in a number of ways. But the two that have stood out for us

[3:14:42] Voice 18: are a gap analysis, those that really, really need it in some way or another, and those that

[3:14:48] Voice 18: are just really old and we do have ones that are older than 30 years old. So maybe you want to

[3:14:55] Voice 18: consider that. So I can stop sharing if you'd like to just have discussion around that or I can

[3:15:04] Voice 18: leave up the slides for reference if you'd like.

[3:15:11] Trustee Busheikin: I'm kind of interested in looking at this slide

[3:15:14] Trustee Busheikin: at least for a little bit longer because to me that's the key of what we're talking about. How

[3:15:20] Trustee Busheikin: how does anyone else feel? I mean, you can, you can change what you see.

[3:15:26] Trustee Busheikin: So you can make that slide tiny off to the left and see the face is big,

[3:15:29] Trustee Busheikin: or you can make that slide big. Everyone knows how to do that. Okay.

[3:15:34] Trustee Busheikin: So let's leave the slide up. No one's saying no, no, it's in the way.

[3:15:38] Trustee Busheikin: And I want to thank you for that presentation. I feel like

[3:15:42] Trustee Busheikin: I just learned a lot of important stuff and also things are getting much

[3:15:47] Trustee Busheikin: clearer than they were.

[3:15:49] Voice 1: And if I may, just before you start,

[3:15:52] Voice 1: yeah. So I just want to let you know what we're going to do

[3:15:54] Voice 1: here is I'd like to hear what the committee thinks with respect to all of this. The intent then would

[3:16:00] Voice 1: be to come back to you with some recommendations for policy amendments that we could then go to

[3:16:05] Voice 1: council. So the policy would help to direct how we determine which projects go forward,

[3:16:11] Voice 1: for example in this case yes

[3:16:13] Trustee Busheikin: thank you i understand okay so uh i'm gonna open up the

[3:16:20] Trustee Busheikin: floor then so the question is around how to determine which which projects get prioritized

[3:16:30] Trustee Busheikin: right correct correct

[3:16:34] Trustee Busheikin: okay so um yeah i'm gonna look i'm gonna go for the electronic hands here

[3:16:40] Trustee Busheikin: um if you're on the phone and you need to just speak up please do that so um we've got stanford

[3:16:46] Trustee Busheikin: and then patrick uh and then wolverton and so let's go ahead uh kate louise go ahead

[3:16:53] Trustee Busheikin: i thank you um

[3:16:55] Trustee Stamford: i don't want to uh focus too much on gambier because we we have been looking at

[3:17:02] Trustee Stamford: the potential of gambier's ocp review within this system and but i have been thinking a lot

[3:17:11] Trustee Stamford: about it um in terms of of how to make it work better structurally and how to use the official

[3:17:21] Trustee Stamford: community plan for gambier in in a way as a guinea pig and a structure for accomplishing some other

[3:17:29] Trustee Stamford: other aspects of this direction that we're taking. And one of them was to consider consolidating

[3:17:36] Trustee Stamford: multiple OCPs in one. So we're one of those local trust committees.

[3:17:42] Trustee Stamford: What I'm finding as I'm working with staff on this is that we speak, we call together,

[3:17:53] Trustee Stamford: and we have ideas on what we want to do, the staff then try and codify that in some kind of

[3:18:01] Trustee Stamford: go forward plan. And then I come back and go, that's not what I

[3:18:04] Trustee Stamford: wanted. And I can see them

[3:18:06] Trustee Stamford: then having to pull back because there isn't a structure in place. So one of the things I'd like

[3:18:12] Trustee Stamford: to see is, and again, maybe using the Gambier scenario as a guinea pig is number one, we're

[3:18:19] Voice 1: not

[3:18:19] Trustee Stamford: that focused on our official community plan but we have a problem that we would like solved

[3:18:25] Trustee Stamford: so maybe there's a way of looking at these structures and priorities and saying what is

[3:18:30] Trustee Stamford: the problem what needs to be solved and what can be accomplished within that process to to say

[3:18:39] Trustee Stamford: update the OCP so specifically I would say for Gambier forestry is our big overarching issue

[3:18:48] Trustee Stamford: our official community plan does need updating but it's more of a technical update and that the

[3:18:56] Trustee Stamford: real problem is how our OCP needs to reflect the priorities of the community which is more around

[3:19:02] Trustee Stamford: forestry and then the part that's missing in the current process that we I didn't really think

[3:19:08] Trustee Stamford: about is how the land use bylaws flow out of that and that that really is where we're going to see

[3:19:16] Trustee Stamford: movement in how we resolve our particular local trust committees issues around forestry

[3:19:23] Trustee Stamford: and so we decided to go ahead with a comprehensive OCP review on what that means and whether or not

[3:19:32] Trustee Stamford: that's going to actually resolve the bigger problem that we're having so I'd rather be able

[3:19:38] Trustee Stamford: to sort of work with staff and turn it around a bit and say what is the problem that I'm able to

[3:19:44] Trustee Stamford: solve can everybody hear me yeah okay um and then use the structure of a new ocp format that can

[3:19:57] Trustee Stamford: help other local trust committees to then move us forward am i making sense or am i wandering all

[3:20:05] Trustee Stamford: over the place because i it's i i'm really stuck with the idea we're now doing a comprehensive

[3:20:10] Trustee Stamford: intensive OCP, and yet I still don't think that's going to resolve the problem that my community is

[3:20:18] Trustee Stamford: concerned about, which is the impact of forestry on our island as a whole. So there's still pieces

[3:20:24] Trustee Stamford: missing, and I haven't had a chance to talk to staff about that. So I'm wondering if in this

[3:20:29] Trustee Stamford: criteria for proceeding, that we look at it more like that kind of framework.

[3:20:34] Trustee Stamford: work.

[3:20:37] Trustee Busheikin: Fascinating. Thank you. I think I'm just going to keep going through the speakers. It's

[3:20:44] Trustee Busheikin: like we could stop and sort of talk about that and hear staff's ideas.

[3:20:48] Trustee Patrick: I'm building on exactly.

[3:20:50] Trustee Patrick: Okay, well, you're next. So let's

[3:20:52] Voice 4: just go to you.

[3:20:53] Trustee Patrick: No, that's, I have also given a great deal of

[3:20:56] Trustee Patrick: thought before this conversation today. And that's exactly where I dug in. There's, to me,

[3:21:06] Trustee Patrick: there's four you know the planning cycle there's four stages pre-planning planning implementation

[3:21:11] Trustee Patrick: and monitoring and evaluation and what I've seen in the in the local trust committees that I'm in

[3:21:18] Trustee Patrick: they they want to dive into the solution and and and go for that so quickly and we're not

[3:21:23] Trustee Patrick: spending the time at the pre-planning which is the problem definition phase of the work and I think

[3:21:31] Trustee Patrick: that's where the the the juicy bits are and I know um Heather we we kind of experimented a little bit

[3:21:37] Trustee Patrick: on um Thetis Island where we they had completed some work and they were starting to set the stage

[3:21:44] Trustee Patrick: of where they wanted to go to next and um and there was an interest in shorelines they felt

[3:21:50] Trustee Patrick: that that was somewhat of the problem and we had such a really good conversation we looked at what

[3:21:55] Trustee Patrick: else was happening well Gambier was doing some work and we knew that the the regional planning

[3:22:00] Trustee Patrick: committee was doing some work so they we took it from an inquisitive standpoint and said well

[3:22:05] Trustee Patrick: let's get that in we want staff to come back and either you know bring the planner that's involved

[3:22:10] Trustee Patrick: in what's going on in Gambier and tell us what they're doing in Thetis so they're staying in

[3:22:14] Trustee Patrick: that pre-planning phase of really trying to get informed and understand what they can do and how

[3:22:21] Trustee Patrick: it fits to what others are doing and so I think that's a framework I absolutely would support

[3:22:29] Trustee Patrick: because i think we need to be brought through that there are definitely unique things that can happen

[3:22:33] Trustee Patrick: to a trust group but i think we need to really spend that even if it is unique we still need

[3:22:38] Trustee Patrick: to spend time in that that project planning and problem definition uh period thank you

[3:22:48] Trustee Busheikin: um trustee wolverton um

[3:22:53] Voice 7: yeah i would agree with what uh kate louise and and

[3:22:59] Voice 7: Laura have brought forward. I also, I think that I would like to see us the criteria, you know,

[3:23:07] Voice 7: definitely include projects that implement the strategic plan, and then also projects that

[3:23:14] Voice 7: benefit multiple LTCs. And I think, I know that there's maybe a little bit later, we'll talk about

[3:23:24] Voice 7: establishing you know a plan for the for the term and I just wanted to say I as a new trustee

[3:23:33] Voice 7: would not actually have been able to really define that well at the beginning so I just

[3:23:40] Voice 7: want to say that it it takes a little while to understand the workings and even even though you

[3:23:46] Voice 7: know I've been to hundreds of LTC meetings it's still it's very different being on the other side

[3:23:52] Voice 7: so i just wanted to add that

[3:23:54] Trustee Busheikin: thank you um i put myself on the speaker's list uh please remember

[3:24:00] Trustee Busheikin: to take your hands down and use the electronic hands um unless you're on the phone and in which

[3:24:07] Trustee Busheikin: case just speak up uh so yeah i am i like where all of this is going i think you know that the

[3:24:16] Trustee Busheikin: issue that uh kate louise brought up and then laura also talked about about the pre-planning

[3:24:21] Trustee Busheikin: problem definition um understanding of what what options are available is really important and

[3:24:26] Trustee Busheikin: and to some degree i feel and he's not here but that's what peter johnston was getting at

[3:24:33] Trustee Busheikin: in the submission he brought to trust council about the model bylaws that that

[3:24:37] Trustee Busheikin: we possess i mean it's a little bit bigger um and i think that communities and trustees um

[3:24:46] Trustee Busheikin: would benefit you know the work would benefit yeah from having a little more like

[3:24:51] Trustee Busheikin: Like we have a problem, like we're worried about this

[3:24:54] Trustee Busheikin: and what, you know, and is it, do we need OCP?

[3:25:00] Trustee Busheikin: Do we need LUB review?

[3:25:02] Trustee Busheikin: Do we need communication?

[3:25:04] Trustee Busheikin: Do we need advocacy?

[3:25:06] Trustee Busheikin: Do we need coordination?

[3:25:07] Trustee Busheikin: Does this actually need to go to trust counsel?

[3:25:09] Trustee Busheikin: Or multiple things, do we need to coordinate?

[3:25:14] Trustee Busheikin: I agree there's putting a, making sure that can work.

[3:25:19] Trustee Busheikin: And it could be something very innovative, like, you know, if there's several LTCs that see the same problem, and Forestry might be an example, like, could there be a special ad hoc meeting for those trustees with some staff members, maybe that communities could, you know, an actual meeting could listen to?

[3:25:39] Trustee Busheikin: I don't know. I'm just kind of blue-skying it here. And otherwise, I just wanted to comment

[3:25:46] Trustee Busheikin: like specifically about these criteria. Implementing the strategic, the number one,

[3:25:55] Trustee Busheikin: I would say yes, like a tick from my point of view, definitely. And I think that would be

[3:26:01] Trustee Busheikin: kind of an overlap with number three, potentially, or similar. The strategic plan I have mixed

[3:26:08] Trustee Busheikin: feelings about because i think we need to really then adopt a little bit of uh somewhat adopt a

[3:26:13] Trustee Busheikin: strategic planning work because to me the strategic plan is for trust council work

[3:26:17] Trustee Busheikin: and trust council resources which is different and so it turns up a lot of things that maybe

[3:26:24] Trustee Busheikin: won't even make sense at the ltc level um but also i just i don't you know i don't want to go too far

[3:26:33] Trustee Busheikin: in preventing LTCs from working on what needs to be done on islands and it may not be on the

[3:26:39] Trustee Busheikin: strategic plan but it could have been on the strategic plan one or two terms ago but never

[3:26:43] Trustee Busheikin: got done on that island and it's been outstanding all those years or it could be very specific to

[3:26:49] Trustee Busheikin: the geography of the island to the relationship with indigenous people to the economy to whether

[3:26:55] Trustee Busheikin: or not it's close to a major city like all kinds of things so I'm just a little bit

[3:27:02] Trustee Busheikin: leery of that I'd maybe like to see rather that the strategic planning include some overarching

[3:27:09] Trustee Busheikin: goals specifically for LTC project work but that those be left quite broad um you know like for

[3:27:17] Trustee Busheikin: instance our strategic plan has um you know projects around um housing on it uh that are

[3:27:26] Trustee Busheikin: great but it doesn't it isn't that we said oh we want we think every LTC ideally should be

[3:27:31] Trustee Busheikin: working on housing is that we think these are good projects for RTC to work on and I so I just

[3:27:40] Trustee Busheikin: I'm not sure about that one um the same with the model bylaws like yes and I mean I don't know

[3:27:48] Trustee Busheikin: I wouldn't want to go too far with that because they just may not be relevant to uh an LTC um

[3:27:54] Trustee Busheikin: Um, and the consolidation definitely, um, that would just, I think I understand the

[3:28:02] Trustee Busheikin: community resistance, but I think it could be done, uh, in a way that respects the individuality

[3:28:07] Trustee Busheikin: of the different, um, associated islands.

[3:28:11] Trustee Busheikin: Um, number six, yes.

[3:28:13] Trustee Busheikin: And the other thing I just wanted to bring up to be, um, considered is, uh, well, two

[3:28:20] Trustee Busheikin: two things, I guess. The question of equity of planning resources for LTCs, I think it would

[3:28:27] Trustee Busheikin: be great to spell that out. I believe that thus far with planning resources, there's an attempt

[3:28:35] Trustee Busheikin: to more or less allocate resources according to population, which I think is fine. And maybe that

[3:28:43] Trustee Busheikin: needs to be spelled out, but I wouldn't want it to be too strict because I think those other things

[3:28:48] Trustee Busheikin: things in this list need to interact with that but you know and I and I know I'm a bit of a

[3:28:55] Trustee Busheikin: broken record and I don't mean to I don't know how to talk about this without being a broken record

[3:29:00] Trustee Busheikin: but I think given my experience on Denman and this isn't actually specific about Denman because it

[3:29:06] Trustee Busheikin: can happen to all of us but is to look at when circumstances mean that perhaps a certain LTC

[3:29:14] Trustee Busheikin: has not gotten many resources for its project work over several years.

[3:29:22] Trustee Busheikin: And I know that's happened on several islands, so it isn't Denman-specific.

[3:29:26] Trustee Busheikin: I've seen it happen because of, yeah, maybe a lot of complex applications

[3:29:32] Trustee Busheikin: or one complex application is typically what will happen that, yes,

[3:29:45] Trustee Busheikin: an LTC just doesn't move forward with project work.

[3:29:47] Trustee Busheikin: And, you know, I just think that needs to be looked at and somehow brought into it

[3:29:52] Trustee Busheikin: and that if that's been happening over years that that's considered

[3:29:55] Trustee Busheikin: and remedied somewhat because it creates a whole backlog.

[3:30:00] Trustee Busheikin: of project work that needs to be done and a lot of community anxiety when years go by without

[3:30:07] Trustee Busheikin: project work getting completed. So that piece of somehow a sustainable degree of equity for

[3:30:20] Trustee Busheikin: LTCs, that's what you want to call it. I would add that to the list. And those are all my comments.

[3:30:26] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you.

[3:30:29] Trustee Busheikin: So I'm seeing Trustee Longerice's hand.

[3:30:32] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you.

[3:30:33] Voice 11: Yeah, yeah.

[3:30:35] Voice 11: Personally, when I was looking at this list,

[3:30:37] Voice 11: I was thinking of number one and number three

[3:30:40] Voice 11: and the comment that if multiple LTCs have similar issues,

[3:30:46] Voice 11: that that might become a priority.

[3:30:48] Voice 11: And having the regional planning team work on one sort of specific topic

[3:30:53] Voice 11: that's applicable to a couple LTCs,

[3:30:56] Voice 11: sees who will have different uh you know a bylaw structure and potentially different issues i think

[3:31:02] Voice 11: you could learn from both if you're trying to incorporate something in a topic in one island

[3:31:08] Voice 11: and you're also doing it similarly with another island you'll see the differences and that may

[3:31:14] Voice 11: create some cross-pollination and ideas as well so so you don't get into that

[3:31:20] Voice 11: at the silo working on one Island, one topic.

[3:31:25] Voice 11: So I do like that.

[3:31:30] Voice 11: The model bylaws over local bylaws,

[3:31:33] Voice 11: I have mixed feelings about that.

[3:31:35] Voice 11: I think the model bylaws are there.

[3:31:38] Voice 11: And is it how much work is it for most model bylaws

[3:31:41] Voice 11: for an LTC to incorporate?

[3:31:45] Voice 11: I don't know if it'd be a lot of work or not.

[3:31:47] Voice 11: I guess it depends on what their bylaws,

[3:31:49] Voice 11: current how they currently operate and in terms of uh number six i'm not i'm not sure what i think

[3:31:59] Voice 11: about the oldest to newest it's the simplest you just go by a day number one is an analysis first

[3:32:05] Voice 11: of the gap analysis how long will that take what what are the parameters for that um so i'm not

[3:32:11] Voice 11: sure about that that's my initial response

[3:32:16] Voice 4: thank you anyone else

[3:32:23] Voice 12: madam chair go ahead

[3:32:27] Voice 12: it's russ hotzenpiller i'm just sort of lurking here on the call and i don't know

[3:32:31] Voice 12: hey

[3:32:32] Voice 10: well

[3:32:33] Voice 12: thanks very much just uh lots going on but certainly very vested in um this conversation

[3:32:40] Voice 12: And I want to thank my colleagues for putting together a good session outline and so forth.

[3:32:47] Voice 12: I would just say one thing, if you have a moment.

[3:32:50] Voice 12: Please.

[3:32:51] Voice 12: Yes.

[3:32:53] Voice 12: So the notion of the model bylaw, you know, I really understand how it can be, you know, you can look at that and interpret it different ways.

[3:33:02] Voice 12: You know, what does that model bylaw mean?

[3:33:05] Voice 12: And I think, and David can help me articulate this probably better.

[3:33:09] Voice 12: but by undertaking a model bylaw process that is the federation or trust council trying to assist

[3:33:18] Voice 12: an ltc in a strategic direction of the whole organization and you might say well what's that

[3:33:27] Voice 12: and that would be something like there's enough general agreement on this thing like say climate

[3:33:35] Voice 12: change or foreshore that it's worth doing together. Because it would be hard to argue we've

[3:33:44] Voice 12: made much impact with climate change if two LTCs out of 13 adopt some foreshore, you know, something

[3:33:54] Voice 12: to do with the foreshore associated with climate change or some other measure. It's a false notion

[3:34:00] Voice 12: of the Trust Council really taking climate change on.

[3:34:04] Voice 12: The mechanism to do it is for each LTC to consider

[3:34:08] Voice 12: and hopefully pass, maybe not every single one,

[3:34:13] Voice 12: some similar language so that we're actually collectively effective.

[3:34:17] Voice 12: And then the other last part about the model bylaws,

[3:34:20] Voice 12: and it's sounding like you're excited about something we're excited about,

[3:34:23] Voice 12: and that is not duplicating work, is the rising budgets

[3:34:29] Voice 12: and the rising need for resources and can we you know just a very practical terms get more out of

[3:34:37] Voice 12: less by not repeating ourselves over and over again and starting from scratch and having that

[3:34:42] Voice 12: expertise in the staff anyway i just wanted to make mention of those things thank you thank you

[3:34:51] Trustee Busheikin: very much um i see well um i see trustee longer ice is your hand up from before or up again

[3:35:03] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, Trustee Peterson, go ahead.

[3:35:05] Trustee Busheikin: Yeah, thank you.

[3:35:10] Voice 16: I just want to echo some of the things I have heard

[3:35:13] Voice 16: from other trustees, you know,

[3:35:16] Voice 16: equity issue is really important.

[3:35:20] Voice 16: You know, the ability of LTCs to proceed

[3:35:26] Voice 16: on what's important locally is for them.

[3:35:31] Voice 16: And at the same time, I really support

[3:35:34] Voice 16: the concept here of, you know, finding ways to gain efficiencies and how that can really support LTCs to advance their priorities and their work through the regional approach.

[3:35:57] Voice 16: terms of the slide we're looking at yeah I you know numbers I guess it's I mean I think all of

[3:36:13] Voice 16: these six points have have their their their pros and and some of them have some cons and I think

[3:36:23] Voice 16: it's just really about the way that the actual um sort of final criteria is set up in terms of

[3:36:31] Voice 16: prioritizing uh based on these items i mean i would agree with case that you know for number

[3:36:37] Voice 16: six um you know the adoption date is very simple uh easy target to figure out and you know whereas

[3:36:47] Voice 16: gap analysis is perhaps a little you know a bit more work and perhaps even a bit more conceptual

[3:36:51] Voice 16: conceptual in some cases. But I'm really happy that we're putting energy into this type of

[3:37:03] Voice 16: planning. And I really believe we will achieve some efficiencies. And I think it's just important

[3:37:09] Voice 16: that in this process that LTCs are reassured about their ultimate independence. Thank you.

[3:37:24] Voice 4: Thank

[3:37:24] Trustee Busheikin: you. So I see our RPM car has put her hand up and then trustee Stanford and Wolverton.

[3:37:34] Trustee Busheikin: And then I'll put myself on that speaker's list too. So go ahead, Heather.

[3:37:39] Voice 18: I just wanted to follow up on a couple of things I heard. And one of those things I think is that

[3:37:45] Voice 18: we should be, maybe it should be clearer on the fact that we see the regional planning team being

[3:37:50] Voice 18: the team that is implementing RPC projects and major LTC projects, right? And so we assume that

[3:38:01] Voice 18: there could be overlap. For model bylaws, that is the most efficient way to address a particular

[3:38:08] Voice 18: topic. So if we're going to do a shoreline DPA model bylaw, you have a regional planning team

[3:38:15] Voice 18: member doing that, and then potentially taking that out to all the LTCs at the same time,

[3:38:20] Voice 18: doing one public engagement process or, you know, a similar process for each of them

[3:38:27] Voice 18: at the same time. So that that's how that efficiency would work. And a model bylaw

[3:38:33] Voice 18: adopted at the local level is just the minimal legislative process. That's all that's required.

[3:38:40] Voice 18: required. But if you want more public engagement, then we'd have to talk about, right, it's more

[3:38:47] Voice 18: money, more time. And we'd have to talk about doing that. But that's the efficiency of it is

[3:38:52] Voice 18: you have one, one planner, as opposed to several different planners working on it at different

[3:38:57] Voice 18: times, you know, that kind of thing. In terms of the pre planning idea, I have felt like,

[3:39:05] Voice 18: at least in the Northern office, we have sort of had, we haven't really addressed that issue

[3:39:10] Voice 18: you really well. And I think it could help, you know, if we were better defining the issues. And

[3:39:15] Voice 18: I think that, you know, when the trustees get elected or at the beginning of a term,

[3:39:20] Voice 18: often there are topics that you want to address and, you know, coming into that,

[3:39:26] Voice 18: to your term that you want to address those topics. And so could we better address those

[3:39:32] Voice 18: by just having a conversation about what your priorities are and then talking about the problem

[3:39:38] Voice 18: and how we address it through staff reports

[3:39:41] Voice 18: or through meetings with the trustees

[3:39:43] Voice 18: or something like that.

[3:39:44] Voice 18: And Robert may be able to kind of weigh in on that

[3:39:47] Voice 18: because I think he,

[3:39:49] Voice 18: I've heard a little bit about how things work in the South

[3:39:51] Voice 18: and they may have a process already

[3:39:53] Voice 18: that they kind of work on there.

[3:39:56] Voice 18: So I don't know if you want to say anything

[3:39:57] Voice 18: about that, Robert,

[3:39:58] Voice 18: but I do think there's, we could be,

[3:40:02] Voice 18: I agree that we could be defining the problems

[3:40:04] Voice 18: a little bit better.

[3:40:07] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you.

[3:40:09] Trustee Busheikin: I'd like to just ask our PM, Kojima, if he wants to speak to that, and then I'll go back to the speaker's list of trustees.

[3:40:16] Voice 15: Sure. Thanks, Chair.

[3:40:18] Voice 15: Yeah, I basically agree with Heather that, you know, we could be better at and have a better approach to helping define the problems at the beginning, to help

[3:40:29] Voice 15: local trust committees to define their problems before they launch into a project or at the beginning of a project.

[3:40:35] Voice 15: um and um i think some some ltcs are better than others at doing that and um maybe putting a little

[3:40:45] Voice 15: bit of structure into that might help and sort of building it into this process

[3:40:50] Trustee Busheikin: thank you okay so

[3:40:55] Trustee Busheikin: next is kate louise sorry

[3:40:59] Trustee Stamford: i i am having quite a bit of uh internet access difficulties so wait

[3:41:04] Trustee Stamford: if you lose me um i think we're we're coming around to what my concerns are like um

[3:41:14] Trustee Stamford: and yet i i do see a way forward if um we can be not only is the problem better defined but

[3:41:22] Trustee Stamford: the consequences so another example of of how we were looking at our last ltc meeting at the

[3:41:29] Trustee Stamford: possibility of Gambier having a comprehensive OCP was, just on a side here, this is the kind

[3:41:39] Trustee Stamford: of scenario that would really benefit from in-person meeting because you get a lot of,

[3:41:46] Trustee Stamford: a lot better interaction in person than you would on Zoom, despite how wonderful Zoom has been. But

[3:41:52] Trustee Stamford: But what I found is when we talked about comprehensive OCP, for instance, I didn't realize until after just how much money we were talking about.

[3:42:06] Trustee Stamford: And that really threw me is the possibility of spending that much money and not wanting to go there just because I knew we were working on strict budgets.

[3:42:19] Trustee Stamford: We were working on the budget from a trust council level and that the concept of having to spend more than $10,000 for the Gambier Island OCP and not actually solve my concern, which, or our community concern, which was forestry, or how do we bring in the modernized COCP without having to go through a massive engagement process?

[3:42:49] Trustee Stamford: possibly above and beyond what was considered necessary in my particular community and still

[3:42:56] Trustee Stamford: not solve what we were trying to get through so that was where it really threw me as I still don't

[3:43:04] Trustee Stamford: know if we're going down the right path for our island given that we are a small population

[3:43:11] Trustee Stamford: But we're also putting lots of money into the trust. So I prefer to stay at a federation level. But we are going in a certain direction. We don't have a lot of the issues that other local trust committees have, but we do have one in common, or a few, which is foreshore protection, which we're moving ahead on, and forestry, which I'd like to see us work with other LTCs on.

[3:43:39] Trustee Stamford: so those are some of the things that i'm finding as we work into this new process is that maybe

[3:43:46] Trustee Stamford: there's a better way of structuring it um to be more efficient and and um yeah i think i'm

[3:43:54] Trustee Stamford: i thought as far as i can go on it because it was quite an uncomfortable process to realize

[3:44:00] Trustee Stamford: what a comprehensive ocp meant and whether or not it was actually going to do any good

[3:44:08] Trustee Busheikin: okay thanks so just checking in we've got uh jane myself and case and then i um you know time wise

[3:44:15] Trustee Busheikin: we should be moving on to the next section and there's a bit of overlap i think between the

[3:44:19] Trustee Busheikin: sections uh so you know if after the end of that speakers list there's someone who has something

[3:44:24] Trustee Busheikin: that they feel that really needs to be added that has and it's new information or something they

[3:44:29] Trustee Busheikin: need to emphasize that's fine but otherwise i'll be ending the speakers list after that so trustee

[3:44:33] Trustee Busheikin: Wilberton, go ahead.

[3:44:34] Voice 7: Yes, I, you know, I'm not a big proponent of specialists, you know, I'm more

[3:44:41] Voice 7: of a generalist, but I can see that one thing that, one of the benefits from having the specialized

[3:44:50] Voice 7: planners, I believe, will be able to share more information across the LTCs, and as Kate Louise

[3:44:58] Voice 7: Louise was talking about like forestry, for example, is a big one.

[3:45:01] Voice 7: And I think if we can share our experiences and what we're working on and we'll come up with better, you know, better bylaws and it'll work more efficiently.

[3:45:18] Voice 7: Thank

[3:45:19] Trustee Busheikin: you. So myself, I just wanted to say that, OK, a couple of things.

[3:45:23] Trustee Busheikin: um the uh yeah the model bylaw issue to me that's almost a subset of number one um

[3:45:31] Trustee Busheikin: in a way and i think it's interesting with the model bylaws um to put that idea together with

[3:45:38] Trustee Busheikin: the idea of the pre-planning and i think it would be good to make sure that's just an idea anyways

[3:45:44] Trustee Busheikin: um if we have model if we're going to create model bylaws to get some clarity and maybe even

[3:45:51] Trustee Busheikin: in some kind of a commitment up front to how many LTCs would like those model bylaws to the point

[3:45:58] Trustee Busheikin: where they would prioritize work on them. And again, I think I mentioned this at Trust Council

[3:46:04] Trustee Busheikin: back when I first became a trustee, there was a report, it was at the first Trust Council,

[3:46:08] Trustee Busheikin: I didn't know what the heck a model bylaw was. And it was about the uptake on model bylaws. And

[3:46:12] Trustee Busheikin: I remember that it wasn't very good. And so we want to obviously improve that. And

[3:46:20] Trustee Busheikin: um so I wonder if before we do model bylaws we could do a little bit of that pre-planning what

[3:46:26] Trustee Busheikin: is the problem what is the problem is seen not just by trust council and RPC but by LTCs

[3:46:32] Trustee Busheikin: and is this model bylaw the way to address that problem um and if not what can we do to address

[3:46:40] Trustee Busheikin: that problem and also um um would model bylaws then if we get that clear also come with kind of

[3:46:48] Trustee Busheikin: um uh supplementary operating uh material like um you know kind of uh templates for um

[3:46:58] Trustee Busheikin: uh communications that's what i'm thinking to communities because uh you know rpm carver

[3:47:05] Trustee Busheikin: talked about well what about consultation um and i think that uh for communities here comes

[3:47:11] Trustee Busheikin: his model bylaw you know on denman it's coming from the south oh my god you know from victoria

[3:47:17] Trustee Busheikin: from the urban planners down there like already oh my god and then we're going to not have public

[3:47:22] Trustee Busheikin: consultation so but we don't have to reinvent the wheel every time so that might be something

[3:47:29] Trustee Busheikin: that's attached to model bylaws um uh you know as we roll them out and um uh also i just wanted

[3:47:41] Trustee Busheikin: to mention i think i've mentioned this before but last term in the northern region there actually

[3:47:45] Trustee Busheikin: was visioning that was done and I believe that Marnie Eggen was part of it and Alexandra Brzezowski

[3:47:50] Trustee Busheikin: who isn't here anymore and possibly Sonia and they came to each LTC and it did feel a little bit

[3:47:56] Trustee Busheikin: early in the term it was kind of fun but it was a little bit like oh this is but it was very good

[3:48:02] Trustee Busheikin: because we had to identify we identified what we hope to achieve in the term and what we hope to

[3:48:08] Trustee Busheikin: work on I think we all agreed a few years on that it was rather high in this it was a little bit

[3:48:14] Trustee Busheikin: bit naive but this all this that's already this material we've seen today um and i think it can

[3:48:20] Trustee Busheikin: be fleshed out that kind of talks of what is a project and what what is involved in a project

[3:48:25] Trustee Busheikin: is really really educational for new trustees and and further to what kate louise is talking about

[3:48:30] Trustee Busheikin: it would be very good to get a little bit clear on just what a major update of ocplub actually

[3:48:39] Trustee Busheikin: actually is in terms of resources in terms of what it demands of a community how long it would take

[3:48:45] Trustee Busheikin: um just what are we talking about so we know what that is uh i think would be uh great and then the

[3:48:52] Trustee Busheikin: only other thing goes just going back to what kate louise is bringing up about just that grappling

[3:48:58] Trustee Busheikin: with um here's the problem here's an idea what we want to do and what is the tool um yeah i just i

[3:49:07] Trustee Busheikin: I guess I just want to maybe emphasize that that is even as I would say an experienced

[3:49:13] Trustee Busheikin: trustee I'm now in I think my 10th year and I think I understand the whole thing pretty well

[3:49:19] Trustee Busheikin: but sometimes it's still I'm like how like it's yeah it's a little it's still I think we still

[3:49:25] Trustee Busheikin: need support with that that question of you know what is the problem and where does where is the

[3:49:32] Trustee Busheikin: solution you know and also then kind of having to face where like with with forestry there is

[3:49:38] Trustee Busheikin: a limit and we all know that of what the trust can do um uh so i think that's just ongoing work

[3:49:45] Trustee Busheikin: and i don't know what it really looks like um to improve upon it i mean i know that uh like

[3:49:52] Trustee Busheikin: heather or um you know well senior staff all of you you know that i get on the phone

[3:49:57] Trustee Busheikin: and i call you and say how what do we do about this and and um you know maybe there's a way to

[3:50:03] Trustee Busheikin: to roll that out more proactively to LTCs. Thank you. So, Trustee Longer, I see you're the last

[3:50:11] Trustee Busheikin: person on the speaker's list on this topic.

[3:50:13] Voice 11: Yeah. When I was reading number four, projects

[3:50:18] Voice 11: that adopt model bylaws prioritized. Now, the regional planning team, I'm assuming, is going

[3:50:23] Voice 11: to be developing the model bylaws that come out of the strategic plan, and then presumably they

[3:50:30] Voice 11: would then implement these bylaws in the local trust areas is that that's my understanding of

[3:50:36] Voice 11: the process when they take on these projects is that correct they

[3:50:41] Voice 18: could or it could be the local

[3:50:44] Voice 18: planning team depending on the process you want to do if it's got

[3:50:48] Voice 18: enhanced public engagement it

[3:50:50] Voice 18: might take the regional planning team but if it's just a minimal process then it's the local team

[3:50:56] Voice 11: so then it would just be up to the local trust committee to decide whether or not they

[3:51:00] Voice 11: implement the model bylaw if it's of a i guess what you what you were calling a moderate project

[3:51:05] Voice 11: or a small project minor yeah

[3:51:08] Voice 11: minor yeah right

[3:51:09] Voice 18: okay

[3:51:11] Voice 11: so it's really then to a large depend depend

[3:51:14] Voice 11: on how many model bylaws can get pumped out over the next while

[3:51:20] Trustee Busheikin: okay

[3:51:22] Voice 11: thank you okay

[3:51:24] Trustee Busheikin: thanks i just

[3:51:25] Trustee Busheikin: remind people to put their hands down and i'd like to move us on to session two and if more

[3:51:36] Trustee Busheikin: more thoughts occur to you, feel free to maybe send notes to staff afterwards.

[3:51:45] Voice 18: So the second question,

[3:51:47] Voice 18: yeah, the second question is really about the number of projects that each

[3:51:51] Voice 18: local trust committee can expect to have ongoing at any one time. And of course, the structure

[3:51:57] Voice 18: right now is that everybody identifies their top three priority projects. But it really is

[3:52:03] Voice 18: how many how much staff capacity do we have to implement those and we're balancing those out

[3:52:09] Voice 18: um i in the north personally have felt like i mean we we in the year and a half that i've been here

[3:52:16] Voice 18: and and as far as i know before that we haven't ever had capacity to do three projects for every

[3:52:22] Voice 18: ltc that we serve in the north right so um so the question and this question came up at the um i

[3:52:29] Voice 18: I think at the executive committee, they had actually sent staff away to give this some

[3:52:35] Voice 18: thought.

[3:52:35] Voice 18: What is a reasonable amount of projects?

[3:52:38] Voice 18: So we're asking you about your thoughts on that.

[3:52:42] Voice 18: And those are the factors.

[3:52:44] Voice 18: You know, we've got so many planners.

[3:52:48] Voice 18: We think that the regional planning team planners, depending on the scope and timeline and budget

[3:52:56] Voice 18: of projects that they're working on could work on anywhere from three to five projects each.

[3:53:00] Voice 18: And then you've got capacity at the local teams to do a certain number of projects,

[3:53:08] Voice 18: depending on the scope and depending on what other things they're working on.

[3:53:13] Voice 18: So this is kind of the structure that we thought about around this.

[3:53:20] Voice 18: And there's different variations of how many projects you could do. I mean,

[3:53:27] Voice 18: I mean, one of the variations I thought of is at the local level, you're still probably

[3:53:32] Voice 18: going to be dealing with administrative bylaw updates.

[3:53:36] Voice 18: So we probably need to continue to have some space for that.

[3:53:42] Voice 18: You might have housekeeping bylaws, which are these technical reviews that we do where

[3:53:46] Voice 18: and there may be some mandates from the province where we have to update a bylaw.

[3:53:52] Voice 18: We don't really have a choice about it.

[3:53:54] Voice 18: We've got a deadline or something like that.

[3:53:58] Voice 18: So, yeah, these are sort of the options and different versions of that, that you could consider.

[3:54:06] Voice 18: That's it for me.

[3:54:09] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, thank you.

[3:54:12] Trustee Busheikin: So I see some, oh, okay, Trustee Peterson and Heather, can you take your hand down? It just distracts me.

[3:54:22] Trustee Busheikin: And, oh, Trustee Peterson's hand is down. Is that because you're about to speak?

[3:54:26] Trustee Busheikin: speak? No. Okay. That was a, uh, yeah,

[3:54:30] Voice 16: no, I was, I was getting ready to speak. You are. Okay.

[3:54:34] Voice 16: Off you go. Okay. Yeah. So, um, yeah, just my quickly, my thoughts on the number of projects,

[3:54:41] Voice 16: uh, for LTCs and, um, you know, this is my second term. Uh, my experience has been

[3:54:49] Voice 16: And that in terms of, you know, actual staff resources and time, three projects is way overselling what is actually going to get happened, is actually going to happen.

[3:55:07] Voice 16: And I think it would be more realistic to set the number of top priority projects at two.

[3:55:15] Voice 16: and the reason that I say two is because I think it's important to at least have space for like

[3:55:21] Voice 16: emerging issues that could be smaller that might possibly be able to be done concurrently with a

[3:55:30] Voice 16: you know with another project and so I think it's just more realistic to not try and say we're

[3:55:40] Voice 16: we're going to make priorities out of things that sit on our list for a

[3:55:43] Voice 16: whole term. Sometimes I think just if nothing else in terms of the public,

[3:55:49] Voice 16: it it's, it's a bit more realistic to say, this is a project and,

[3:55:53] Voice 16: and we can't, you know, we can choose to make it a priority or not,

[3:55:56] Voice 16: but having three top priorities and then having some of them not actually

[3:56:02] Voice 16: get any work done on them. It just, I think as a trustee,

[3:56:07] Voice 16: it doesn't feel great and and and i don't think it's great in terms of of how the public sees

[3:56:12] Voice 16: what we're doing i really feel like one is realistic but it's important to have space

[3:56:18] Voice 16: for an emerging um potentially shorter you know minor stuff um and uh as far as the way it gets

[3:56:32] Voice 16: it's staffed, I would say that, you know, what sort of outlined here kind of makes sense that

[3:56:40] Voice 16: if there is a, actually what I see as a potential benefit for this is that it might actually be

[3:56:51] Voice 16: possible for, say, the regional planning team to be working on a major project for an LTC

[3:56:56] Voice 16: and for a local planner to actually get something done that's smaller, like concurrently. I think

[3:57:02] Voice 16: that would actually be a big improvement from my point of view um sometimes it seems like you know

[3:57:08] Voice 16: sometimes we have stuff on our top priorities list and one of them seems like well this doesn't seem

[3:57:14] Voice 16: like it you know it needs a ton of resources to do it but if our um our planning office is at capacity

[3:57:22] Voice 16: and we just don't have any more planner time and you know we're not going to drop our ocp to work

[3:57:29] Voice 16: work on our model cell phone tower strategy, but I hate having the model cell phone strategy sit

[3:57:36] Voice 16: there for years at a time and not get addressed. So I think there's, you know, potential for a lot

[3:57:43] Voice 16: of benefits as far as getting through some of our minor projects while we're working on the big

[3:57:48] Voice 16: ones. And I just, but I don't think three is realistic. I think we should go for two.

[3:57:53] Voice 16: thank

[3:57:55] Trustee Busheikin: you uh trustee patrick um

[3:58:00] Trustee Patrick: i think there it would be worthwhile spending some time in

[3:58:06] Trustee Patrick: in the language as well when we say projects and i you know i'm really becoming cognizant of

[3:58:12] Trustee Patrick: of the terminology and i know i have to sit in front of the public once a month i have to have

[3:58:18] Trustee Patrick: a meeting and i'm out there and i'm always talking about projects and to the public they're like oh

[3:58:22] Trustee Patrick: oh, you're building a housing complex?

[3:58:24] Trustee Patrick: And it's like, oh no, it's a planning project.

[3:58:27] Trustee Patrick: So we're using terminology that's confusing.

[3:58:30] Trustee Patrick: And I think Heather, you said right,

[3:58:31] Trustee Patrick: it's long range planning.

[3:58:33] Trustee Patrick: So there's long range planning,

[3:58:34] Trustee Patrick: there's administrative planning,

[3:58:36] Trustee Patrick: there's we should give these things some names

[3:58:39] Trustee Patrick: rather than saying we have a high priority project list

[3:58:44] Trustee Patrick: than we have a project list.

[3:58:46] Trustee Patrick: How I always look at the project list

[3:58:48] Trustee Patrick: is it's a place to park stuff

[3:58:51] Trustee Patrick: stuff when we're especially when we're like working an application and you're you're finding

[3:58:54] Trustee Patrick: that oh well you know the OCP never defined this term before or you know here's something we're

[3:58:59] Trustee Patrick: running into it's a it's it's an in the moment capture this issue so that it it can reside

[3:59:07] Trustee Patrick: someplace and to me those captured issues should be feeding back up to the regional planning

[3:59:12] Trustee Patrick: committee to look at because the years are coming from all 12 trust committees and there may be some

[3:59:17] Trustee Patrick: overlap occurring that that's happening so that's sort of the in the now but I see you know yes we

[3:59:25] Trustee Patrick: have to we have to limit the work that's being done but how that can be moderated is where we're

[3:59:32] Trustee Patrick: where we can see ourselves coming from other work that's you know so maybe the shoreline work is

[3:59:38] Trustee Patrick: getting created and developed at Gambier that's great if I can see how that relates to me and I'm

[3:59:43] Trustee Patrick: I'm excited about it, I'm aware about it, I can communicate with my constituents about it, that this is something that's on the horizon, it's coming, or I can see where I fit in a schedule, maybe it's next year or two years from now.

[3:59:57] Trustee Patrick: So I think there's that all.

[4:00:00] Trustee Patrick: both all those things have to all be brought together so that it's not just oh i only get

[4:00:03] Trustee Patrick: one project or you always feel that we're out of equity um but i can see where i fit

[4:00:10] Trustee Patrick: in in the process and it's transparent and that even someone from the public can see

[4:00:16] Trustee Patrick: you know where how this is going to show up um on our island

[4:00:22] Trustee Busheikin: okay thank you um trustee stanford

[4:00:29] Trustee Busheikin: Yeah,

[4:00:30] Trustee Stamford: I'll take the extra project from Mesquitee, add it to Gambier, please.

[4:00:37] Trustee Stamford: Quite happy to get some extras there. I think with keeping it at three,

[4:00:48] Trustee Stamford: what I've liked about it is when something is on hold for either

[4:00:54] Trustee Stamford: their engagement process, or for whatever reason, one project's on hold, there's other projects that

[4:01:02] Trustee Stamford: the planners can begin working on. One of the problems I think just that was already outlined

[4:01:08] Trustee Stamford: is that minor projects can suddenly become major, as we dig down into the details. But I like the

[4:01:15] Trustee Stamford: idea of having two, quote unquote, minor projects, and then having the large term project that is

[4:01:23] Trustee Stamford: worked on either by the regional committee or by a combination thereof so that's sort of the way

[4:01:32] Trustee Stamford: I would like to see it and I really agree that knowing that there's a clear way of seeing what

[4:01:37] Trustee Stamford: other local trust committees are working on that will then benefit us because they're already

[4:01:44] Trustee Stamford: structured for us would really help how we communicate this

[4:01:50] Trustee Busheikin: thank you so I put myself

[4:01:55] Trustee Busheikin: myself on the speakers list and after that I see trustee Longerice um I'm I'm with trustee

[4:02:02] Trustee Busheikin: Peterson here I think we need to have one one priority project and one secondary project and

[4:02:08] Trustee Busheikin: I think we need to make that clear for every LTC um and there may be it may be different for

[4:02:14] Trustee Busheikin: Salt Spring I'm not sure it's already different um they have their own office and their own staff

[4:02:20] Trustee Busheikin: so and they're much bigger um uh but i just don't think that having three projects uh for every ltc

[4:02:30] Trustee Busheikin: is doable and i think that and i i believe i heard russ hudson fitler say something at last

[4:02:36] Trustee Busheikin: dress council about um that every ltc has at least one project being worked on at a time and i think

[4:02:43] Trustee Busheikin: if we're going to have that as a goal uh then we can't have some with three and some with none

[4:02:50] Trustee Busheikin: and it's just yeah what I'd like to see is the one main project and the secondary project

[4:02:55] Trustee Busheikin: and it could be one is major and one is minor but I think we need two at least because

[4:03:00] Trustee Busheikin: sometimes there's a project that's on hold we're waiting for a long-term referral we're waiting

[4:03:04] Trustee Busheikin: the APC isn't going to get back to us for six months or you know it's waiting for a specialist

[4:03:11] Trustee Busheikin: report and then staff can go ahead and work on the other one it's also hard for it if there's

[4:03:17] Trustee Busheikin: three active ones that's a lot for a community to take in especially if there's um you know uh

[4:03:22] Trustee Busheikin: applications of interest to the community uh they can get a bit fatigued and confused

[4:03:28] Trustee Busheikin: uh so i would like to see that cut i think language is important i'm not sure what other

[4:03:34] Trustee Busheikin: word other than project in terms of a top priority project although i understand that people don't

[4:03:40] Trustee Busheikin: you know they're like well we need to review our our um temporary use permit

[4:03:47] Trustee Busheikin: regulations so that we can allow food trucks and I'm like well we already have three projects so

[4:03:52] Trustee Busheikin: they're like I don't care about projects I want to amend the regulations like they don't get it but

[4:03:56] Trustee Busheikin: I can't think of a better word than project unless we want to call it a planning project

[4:04:02] Trustee Busheikin: but in terms of so there's the top priorities list but the actual projects list does I think

[4:04:08] Trustee Busheikin: desperately need to be renamed because it isn't it's the list of potential it's a tracking

[4:04:14] Trustee Busheikin: list. I don't know what to call it. I don't have the language. Maybe we could get communications

[4:04:18] Trustee Busheikin: staff to work on it. I think the project list needs to be renamed to set clear expectations

[4:04:24] Trustee Busheikin: for staff, trustees, and the public that this is simply a place where we track topics that we would

[4:04:37] Trustee Busheikin: like to work on at some point in the future and um and that's what it is because i think that the

[4:04:45] Trustee Busheikin: degree of anxiety that's created by people expecting that that projects list is supposed

[4:04:51] Trustee Busheikin: to be active is is unfortunate for for everyone um and that's uh that's all i wanted to say thank you

[4:04:59] Trustee Busheikin: uh trustee long rice and don't

[4:05:01] Trustee Busheikin: forget to put your hands down everyone oh oh yeah all right yeah um

[4:05:05] Voice 11: when I think of a major project and that's going to be with the regional planning team right

[4:05:10] Voice 11: now we right now have three projects top priorities assuming that one of our major

[4:05:18] Voice 11: projects is with the regional planning team in terms of some sort of implementation and I think

[4:05:23] Voice 11: one minor project for the local team would be appropriate I see right now we've got three

[4:05:30] Voice 11: and it's not it doesn't work i mean it does put a lot of stress and we actually have our

[4:05:35] Voice 11: rpm doing planning work instead of managing which is not not ideal by any means so i i do realize

[4:05:44] Voice 11: that we need to lower the number down but it really gets down to how we define major and minor

[4:05:51] Voice 11: is an ocp change like a temporary use permit requires an ocp change does that make it major

[4:05:59] Voice 11: or minor is that a factor? That's one of my questions and the timeline for such a change

[4:06:08] Voice 11: and that to me that's going to be the the most important part is making that determination.

[4:06:14] Voice 11: So I'd be fine with one major and one minor.

[4:06:21] Voice 1: If I may through the chair.

[4:06:24] Voice 1: Go ahead. Yeah the major minor we'll be talking about that a little bit further down I think

[4:06:29] Voice 1: but it depends on the the extent of the work that you're doing so an LCP revision could be minor it

[4:06:36] Voice 1: could be major it depends on what you're exactly what you're doing to that and how much staff time

[4:06:41] Voice 1: is required I was just going to ask the committee has anybody thought about you know we talked about

[4:06:50] Voice 1: one per island or three per island or two per island but has anybody thought about the difference

[4:06:56] Voice 1: in need between the islands.

[4:06:58] Voice 1: So for example, does it make sense

[4:07:00] Voice 1: that Salt Spring has one and the Satana has one?

[4:07:04] Voice 1: Or is there, should we be considering

[4:07:06] Voice 1: some kind of variation based on the need of the island?

[4:07:09] Voice 1: So that's something to think about.

[4:07:11] Voice 1: I'm not going to use population.

[4:07:13] Voice 1: There could be other metrics

[4:07:14] Voice 1: that you would like to throw out there,

[4:07:16] Voice 1: but do we need to think about that?

[4:07:23] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you.

[4:07:25] Trustee Busheikin: Well, I've got Trustee Wolverton

[4:07:27] Trustee Busheikin: and then again, Trustee Longer,

[4:07:29] Trustee Busheikin: Grace on the speaker's list.

[4:07:32] Voice 7: I was just going to say you could have a short list and a long list

[4:07:36] Voice 7: you know or your work plan you know your long list work plan your short list work plan that

[4:07:41] Voice 7: just something to distinguish it. Thank

[4:07:47] Trustee Busheikin: you. Trustee Peterson.

[4:07:55] Voice 16: Yeah thanks just in in response

[4:07:57] Voice 16: to Director Marler's sort of question there,

[4:08:03] Voice 16: I do think there's definitely some room

[4:08:06] Voice 16: for resourcing more to LTCs and projects

[4:08:18] Voice 16: that sort of are in more need.

[4:08:22] Voice 16: You don't use population,

[4:08:25] Voice 16: I'm not sure how to do that in a way that it feels equitable to all LTCs.

[4:08:32] Voice 16: I guess that'd be my main consideration because I can see that, for example, you know what,

[4:08:41] Voice 16: the amount of applications on an island like Salt Spring, the applications alone are requiring

[4:08:51] Voice 16: requiring tons of planner time that's a staff time and so I'm sure that advancing any other

[4:08:57] Voice 16: bigger projects you know in conjunction with that is already a bit of a challenge

[4:09:01] Voice 16: and I wouldn't want to I wouldn't want to have islands feel like they're

[4:09:10] Voice 16: you know sacrificing time for other islands you know I like we want to make sure everyone feels

[4:09:20] Voice 16: feels equitable about. Me personally, I think that, you know, my experience is that two is

[4:09:28] Voice 16: realistic for Laskiti. And given that, even given that, I mean, if Salt Spring really feels like

[4:09:37] Voice 16: they need three, I'm okay with that. Whether we can get agreement amongst all LTCs on that might

[4:09:43] Voice 16: be a different story. But I think it's a good question that Director Marler raised, and I'm

[4:09:51] Voice 16: going to think about it some more.

[4:09:53] Trustee Busheikin: Thanks. Trustee Patrick, can't hear you.

[4:10:05] Trustee Busheikin: That

[4:10:06] Trustee Patrick: was a great thought. No, I'm just gone. I didn't say anything.

[4:10:11] Trustee Busheikin: I was trying to

[4:10:12] Voice 3: contemplate how

[4:10:13] Trustee Patrick: I was going to say it. Some of this is unique. You know, it's a project that's

[4:10:20] Trustee Patrick: only occurring on your island because of whatever circumstance, like Ganges Village.

[4:10:25] Trustee Patrick: it but but the template that's being created for this work is like for ganji's village is going to

[4:10:32] Trustee Patrick: be applicable to any other village that or area plan that gets created so there's a there is a

[4:10:39] Trustee Patrick: shared element to it but then we have where we have it could be a major project but we have four

[4:10:45] Trustee Patrick: or five ltcs that are cooperating together um you know so that it does become complex and i and i

[4:10:54] Trustee Patrick: I don't, that's why I don't, I don't feel that a fixed number is necessary, you know, aiming toward

[4:10:59] Trustee Patrick: or something of that nature, but it's, it's that feeling of equity that comes out of it. Like I

[4:11:05] Trustee Patrick: said, if I can see, we can see our work being progressed and that we see how we fit into it

[4:11:11] Trustee Patrick: is so important.

[4:11:15] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you. Trustee Stanford. And then I've got myself on the list.

[4:11:21] Trustee Stamford: That's exactly what I was going to say.

[4:11:23] Trustee Stamford: If we could put two projects out, a major and a minor, and know with confidence that they will be finished, that there is something that we can present at the end of term,

[4:11:35] Trustee Stamford: I think that goes a long way to then being able to open up to the idea that there are some LTCs that require more projects and that their planning is at a far more urgent level.

[4:11:51] Trustee Stamford: than ours and

[4:11:52] Voice 4: thank

[4:11:55] Trustee Busheikin: you yeah um i am put myself on the speaker's list and a lot of what i said

[4:12:02] Trustee Busheikin: has been said but i think in answer to director marler's question i think yes to a degree that

[4:12:09] Trustee Busheikin: question of you know responding to particular needs uh that i think would be sort of circumstantial

[4:12:15] Trustee Busheikin: needs um uh that it's um yeah and i guess it's you know how to be equitable while also

[4:12:24] Trustee Busheikin: not turning equity into something that that becomes a bit of a like counterproductive to

[4:12:31] Trustee Busheikin: actually being as effective as we can because sometimes you do need to play around a bit with

[4:12:36] Trustee Busheikin: resources to to respond in a timely manner to to outstanding uh situations and needs and that and

[4:12:43] Trustee Busheikin: And the Ganges Village Planning Project is a good example.

[4:12:47] Trustee Busheikin: And quite a lot of islands don't have anything remotely like a village course.

[4:12:51] Trustee Busheikin: So it really, in some ways, has quote unquote nothing to do with us.

[4:12:55] Trustee Busheikin: And yet it did get a lot of support.

[4:12:58] Trustee Busheikin: And I think it's because it was contextualized in a way that just made sense.

[4:13:01] Trustee Busheikin: I know when I first read it, at first I was like, well, oh my God, so much money and all

[4:13:06] Trustee Busheikin: that's not fair.

[4:13:07] Trustee Busheikin: Yeah. And that's like, I read the RFD and I just thought, God, that is,

[4:13:11] Trustee Busheikin: that is really needed. And, and,

[4:13:14] Trustee Busheikin: and Ganges is the sort of the,

[4:13:17] Trustee Busheikin: the town center of the Islands Trust in a way and,

[4:13:22] Trustee Busheikin: and is important. So that contextualization is important. And, you know,

[4:13:26] Trustee Busheikin: my question is, so how does that roll out?

[4:13:29] Trustee Busheikin: Who determines where those needs are?

[4:13:33] Trustee Busheikin: and that maybe gets into the next topic which I believe the next one is the process for approval

[4:13:40] Trustee Busheikin: that we're supposed to deal with after our lunch break um uh because yeah I'm like well if RPC is

[4:13:46] Trustee Busheikin: deciding these things uh staff are you know is there a process where it's once a year

[4:13:56] Trustee Busheikin: uh with the budget that ltcs can put forward a request for maybe a you know extraordinary

[4:14:05] Trustee Busheikin: use of resources or a higher budget or it seems to me the way it happens certainly the the the

[4:14:15] Trustee Busheikin: model that we we have now is it happens to the the regular budgetary uh process so uh and i i

[4:14:22] Trustee Busheikin: I, you know, I'm grateful to the Salt Spring LTC for really spearheading, I think, an approach that

[4:14:28] Trustee Busheikin: many of us just didn't think about was that we could actually put in a larger budget request if

[4:14:33] Trustee Busheikin: there was a real need to get a project done that might involve, yeah, a higher budget.

[4:14:41] Trustee Busheikin: But I think that's the next project. So, or the next topic. So, so yeah, I think we could be ready

[4:14:52] Trustee Busheikin: to move on to that but I'll just say is there anyone else who wants to speak on this topic

[4:14:56] Trustee Busheikin: and in particular people who haven't spoken much I

[4:15:02] Voice 3: am here and I am listening I guess I've just

[4:15:04] Voice 3: been lucky in that um every time we we've had a couple of major projects but we don't really seem

[4:15:11] Voice 3: to have because we're already so overbuilt and fully developed we don't seem to have some of

[4:15:16] Voice 3: the planning problems that other islands have but going way back when we talked about redoing OCPs

[4:15:22] Voice 3: and i just for my few bits that worth um to me doing a complete start to finish on an ocp is

[4:15:30] Voice 3: just way too time consuming you lose people's interest too confusing so most of the time what

[4:15:36] Voice 3: we're doing we're always changing our ocp and if there's a specific problem area we just did the

[4:15:40] Voice 3: commercial review it's kind of a mini mini ganges but we spent a lot of time on that and changed

[4:15:47] Voice 3: parts in our OCP that were relevant to that. So we had a specific topic which then impacted our OCP

[4:15:53] Voice 3: but for us to just open it up today and say we're going to review our entire OCP would take hours

[4:15:58] Voice 3: and hours and the results at the end of it would be very frustrating. Most people would not

[4:16:02] Voice 3: understand what they were doing so I think you should target specific problems. I just say some

[4:16:07] Voice 3: people have forestry issues, they have foreshore issues and work on those and the changes

[4:16:13] Voice 3: that go into the OCP from there.

[4:16:15] Voice 3: So lots of interesting conversation,

[4:16:19] Voice 3: but I'm just happy.

[4:16:20] Voice 3: I don't seem to have quite as many problems

[4:16:22] Voice 3: with these issues as some of islands do.

[4:16:25] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you.

[4:16:27] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you.

[4:16:30] Trustee Busheikin: Heather, you're waving.

[4:16:31] Trustee Busheikin: Is that your hand going up?

[4:16:32] Trustee Busheikin: Yep.

[4:16:33] Trustee Busheikin: Okay.

[4:16:34] Trustee Busheikin: Just

[4:16:34] Voice 18: maybe one last thought.

[4:16:36] Voice 18: And that is, you know,

[4:16:38] Voice 18: we have been thinking of minor and major projects

[4:16:40] Voice 18: for LTCs as really their projects. I mean, adoption of model bylaw could be considered

[4:16:48] Voice 18: a local minor project, but it's also kind of a shared project. So could one of our categories be

[4:16:57] Voice 18: of the number of projects that you have, one of them is a shared project versus an LTC project,

[4:17:04] Voice 18: right? And is that a bonus project that you get or something along those lines?

[4:17:10] Voice 18: The other thought is this whole pre-planning thing. Part of the struggle for the North has

[4:17:16] Voice 18: been that even considering a topic of any kind is a project. And so then we got to put a project

[4:17:25] Voice 18: charter together and that kind of thing. And so really, is that a FUAL item? Is there a

[4:17:34] Voice 18: mini project kind of idea can we have a staff report discussion paper you know how do those

[4:17:42] Voice 18: fit in in terms of our our model I'm not exactly sure but if we're talking about the number of

[4:17:48] Voice 18: things that we're doing at any particular time we should probably have some room for those

[4:17:52] Voice 18: kinds of things just yep probably making it more complex but

[4:18:04] Trustee Busheikin: well i just have that just makes me think one more thing i actually wanted to mention is that

[4:18:08] Trustee Busheikin: in terms of pre-planning uh it's just important to remember that um you know over the years we have

[4:18:16] Trustee Busheikin: uh as an organization done a lot of work that i think falls into the pre-planning stage and that

[4:18:22] Trustee Busheikin: you know things like the like we've got numerous like housing needs reports there's one 2011 2016

[4:18:29] Trustee Busheikin: 2016 2018 priority projects for dealing with housing i mean just because i'm into housing and

[4:18:35] Trustee Busheikin: it's on my mind i know like there's a whole body of work that is actually in that pre-planning it's

[4:18:40] Trustee Busheikin: like okay your problem is you need you know rental housing you need like affordable ownership housing

[4:18:45] Trustee Busheikin: here's how it could roll out um you know some islands have agricultural plants so you can learn

[4:18:52] Trustee Busheikin: a lot by looking at those because those are kind of those are the okay like we've done all this work

[4:18:57] Trustee Busheikin: And here's, if you have these problems, here's various strategies and who might do them and what might be involved. And there's even, you know, suggested bylaw changes and those kinds of reports. So I think it's important to somehow, and maybe this will be, you know, on the new website, like just to make sure, I mean, it still works. Someone has to go and find those, and then we have to read them.

[4:19:19] Trustee Busheikin: But that just to remember that we do already have tools we do a lot of that kind of work in an ongoing way.

[4:19:27] Trustee Busheikin: And it really is helpful to as I was just say to trustees and I think you all know this to hunt down some of that work or just to see what other other islands are doing.

[4:19:38] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, so I'm going to move us on to session three. Thank you.

[4:19:42] Trustee Busheikin: All

[4:19:46] Voice 18: right. So this is our process for approval of projects and what the roles of the committees are.

[4:19:54] Voice 18: And again, if you remember back to one of my original slides, trust council budgets in a particular way, the LTCs identify the projects.

[4:20:05] Voice 18: projects. And in terms of project budgeting, I put together a slide that was specific to that.

[4:20:19] Voice 18: You know, what is the, what is Trust Council's role in prioritizing project budgets?

[4:20:28] Voice 18: Could they, and we've talked about this a little bit at the RPM level,

[4:20:34] Voice 18: um they they could put some more strings on their project um budgeting um they could insist that the

[4:20:44] Voice 18: strategic plan be advanced they could say we're going to give a certain amount to the north and

[4:20:51] Voice 18: the south and south spring they don't do that now i mean you know these are all sort of different

[4:20:57] Voice 18: ways they could do they could say you know what we're going to give a bunch more money to the

[4:21:00] Voice 18: the Regional Planning Committee, because we are going to prioritize model bylaws over local bylaws.

[4:21:08] Voice 18: So these are different ways that the Trust Council could be restructured to think about

[4:21:14] Voice 18: how they prioritize budget. And these are certain ways that we could kind of frame how we do

[4:21:25] Voice 18: project budget or project prioritization for the the trust one of the examples that I looked at was

[4:21:32] Voice 18: you know the regional district of Nanaimo they have a strategic plan and then they have this

[4:21:38] Voice 18: thing called an operational plan and the operational plan identifies all of the long

[4:21:44] Voice 18: range planning projects they're going to do that year or within the next couple years

[4:21:50] Voice 18: and it identifies specifically how it implements the strategic plan and that's what they do

[4:21:56] Voice 18: um so that's something we could do too um see and and again we've kind of kind of kind of talked

[4:22:07] Voice 18: about this in terms of the the role of the ltc and i think that was it for so those are just some

[4:22:14] Voice 18: ideas and framework around this question too um one of the things i haven't highlighted here but

[4:22:21] Voice 18: that we've talked about is, if an LTC wants to do a major project, and they want to have the

[4:22:28] Voice 18: regional planning team do that project, how do they get it to the regional planning team, right?

[4:22:34] Voice 18: Do they make a recommendation that, or a request through the regional planning committee,

[4:22:43] Voice 18: for instance? Is that an option? And so that's one of the ways, one of the questions within this

[4:22:49] Voice 18: question that we've thought about and that's kind of it for that which slide that's it for me

[4:22:58] Trustee Busheikin: thank you um okay i will just a minute too many screens and i will take uh comments and questions

[4:23:12] Trustee Busheikin: and discussion uh trustee patrick go ahead i

[4:23:19] Trustee Patrick: can kick this off sorry i guess i'm the one that said

[4:23:21] Trustee Patrick: I've been I've been dreaming about this stuff here sorry and drawing pictures um

[4:23:28] Trustee Patrick: because I there's a point of where we are today versus where we need to be and I think that that's

[4:23:36] Trustee Patrick: where it's always hard so it's you know are we thinking about where we are today or where we

[4:23:40] Trustee Patrick: need to be so I'm I'm trying to think of where we need to be um because we're doing work it's

[4:23:45] Trustee Patrick: going to take some time to shape and and become practice so i i think the major projects as we're

[4:23:53] Trustee Patrick: calling them or the extraordinary or whatever you're calling them the big ones um do need to

[4:23:58] Trustee Patrick: be identified and considered in the strategic planning process in the future so next terms

[4:24:05] Trustee Patrick: process that we've got to figure out how that that the strategic plan should reflect both um

[4:24:12] Trustee Patrick: you know, the over, you know, overarching and then, and fit in, because that should be part

[4:24:19] Trustee Patrick: of the discussion. How do these major projects that need to occur at the local trust committee

[4:24:25] Trustee Patrick: fit in? And this is the big, these are the big ones. I'm not talking the, whatever, we got to

[4:24:31] Trustee Patrick: get some terminology and language there. So, because that in the financial planning, money is

[4:24:38] Trustee Patrick: is a powerful thing that helps make decisions, especially, and, and, and I think if we can

[4:24:44] Trustee Patrick: connect, we have to do a better job of connecting it. And there are two forms of how these can be

[4:24:51] Trustee Patrick: paid for. And that is, you know, what what is paid for out of our, you know, regular collected tax

[4:24:59] Trustee Patrick: versus now it's a special project, that should be a special tax at that local trust area. And so

[4:25:07] Trustee Patrick: So those are the things I think that should be thought about at the strategic planning time laid out in sort of a four year plan, because if you are if it is going to be something that's going to be paid for by a strategic special tax.

[4:25:21] Trustee Patrick: You know, there's a there's a whole process there of preparing the public for that. And, and, you know, that's a project in itself of getting that tax through.

[4:25:31] Trustee Patrick: So that's why, you know, these major projects, I think, should be included in the strategic plan at the beginning of the term and weaved in there so that it's, we're, as an organization and body, heading in a certain direction.

[4:25:51] Trustee Patrick: Thank

[4:25:51] Trustee Busheikin: you. Anyone else? Trustee Peterson?

[4:25:58] Trustee Busheikin: uh

[4:26:03] Voice 16: yeah some interesting ideas there and um i think in terms of like how we're going to uh

[4:26:12] Voice 16: allocate uh resources uh to ltcs you know it can be a bit of a tricky question i mean i noticed one

[4:26:21] Voice 16: of the options was like by population well i'm certain that if it's like x number of planner

[4:26:27] Voice 16: minutes per person or whatever I know the smaller population islands aren't going to be happy with

[4:26:35] Voice 16: that because um you know that would realistically slow down those those projects for those those

[4:26:43] Voice 16: islands but it's it is important and I do think it's certainly valid to think about

[4:26:48] Voice 16: you know the needs of say a salt spring as opposed to a Laskiti um in terms of the amount of of

[4:26:56] Voice 16: of planning time that's really required.

[4:26:59] Voice 16: So again, I'm gonna think about this a bit more

[4:27:03] Voice 16: and I'm just gonna ask Heather,

[4:27:10] Voice 16: if you could send out these slides

[4:27:12] Voice 16: just because they're thought provoking

[4:27:14] Voice 16: and I'd like to look at them again, that'd be great.

[4:27:15] Voice 16: Thank you.

[4:27:17] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you.

[4:27:19] Trustee Busheikin: Trustee Stamford.

[4:27:24] Trustee Stamford: I think we have a poll

[4:27:27] Trustee Stamford: there may be a doing it population there's so many different ways to um look at um how the

[4:27:35] Trustee Stamford: islands are worked out um my area has one of the smallest uh populations of residents but has a

[4:27:43] Trustee Stamford: huge population in terms of recreational property owners which does then imply quite a bit of work

[4:27:49] Trustee Stamford: just of itself. We could also say, okay, number of islands. Well, we've got 30 plus islands.

[4:27:57] Trustee Stamford: Complexity, we're one of the more complex in certain ways, more of the simplistic in others.

[4:28:01] Trustee Stamford: So I think it really comes down to common sense and the overall development needs of each particular

[4:28:09] Trustee Stamford: island. And in that way, Liskety and the Gambria Local Trust Area, we don't have the same

[4:28:16] Trustee Stamford: uh development um difficulties or challenges that say a salt spring or gabriola has and and that

[4:28:28] Trustee Stamford: just makes sense to me

[4:28:32] Trustee Busheikin: thank you i put myself on the speaker's list um good discussion um just a

[4:28:40] Trustee Busheikin: few things i'm more and more as the discussion goes not convinced that um tying major projects

[4:28:49] Trustee Busheikin: to the strategic plan is the best way

[4:28:52] Trustee Busheikin: because I still see that the strategic plan

[4:28:55] Trustee Busheikin: is about trust-wide resources and major projects.

[4:28:59] Trustee Busheikin: It could just be that you need your OCP reviewed

[4:29:01] Trustee Busheikin: because one section of it hasn't been reviewed in 30 years

[4:29:05] Trustee Busheikin: and just hasn't kept up with things for your island.

[4:29:08] Trustee Busheikin: And that's not what's in the strategic plan for this term.

[4:29:11] Trustee Busheikin: It could be that your island has a whole lot of steep slopes

[4:29:16] Trustee Busheikin: slopes and there's been some disturbing slippage and you need to get onto that and you never have

[4:29:23] Trustee Busheikin: and no one else in the trust has anything like that like and I don't know if that's a major

[4:29:28] Trustee Busheikin: project but I just I'm not ready to tie it to the strategic plan to me it would change how we do

[4:29:34] Trustee Busheikin: strategic planning and maybe that's okay but it's complicated enough as it is the idea of using

[4:29:41] Trustee Busheikin: special tax requisitions interests me I know I've had a discussion with a few people on

[4:29:46] Trustee Busheikin: Denman recently who are, you know, hopping mad that we're not moving forward with a housing

[4:29:51] Trustee Busheikin: regulations review. And they're like, well, why, what do you mean no resources? Like just

[4:29:56] Trustee Busheikin: vote to spend the money. And I'm like, it doesn't work that way.

[4:30:00] Trustee Busheikin: way well how come and why didn't why wouldn't you just vote to hire another planner then all right

[4:30:04] Trustee Busheikin: and try and explain the trust wide you know budgeting um and they just were getting more

[4:30:10] Trustee Busheikin: and more angry they're like they said i'm sure that on denman there would and i don't know if

[4:30:13] Trustee Busheikin: they're right there would be interest in paying more taxes to support this um and you know when

[4:30:21] Trustee Busheikin: i think of like a community like a special tax requisition like my my stomach plummets because

[4:30:27] Trustee Busheikin: I don't know anything about it. I think it's very complicated. It's expensive.

[4:30:31] Trustee Busheikin: If that, I don't know, but if that could be a tool that could be easier to use, it might be

[4:30:39] Trustee Busheikin: a useful tool. The only time I know it's been used is for SWPA, and apparently it works very

[4:30:45] Trustee Busheikin: well for that. And that may be, I just want to put it out there that if it is a, if it could be a

[4:30:54] Trustee Busheikin: not too unwieldy tool that isn't a project unto itself then I'd be interested in looking at that

[4:31:02] Trustee Busheikin: and in terms of yeah allocating projects I can see the the limitations of going with population

[4:31:12] Trustee Busheikin: there's also someone mentioned development needs but there's protection needs and at

[4:31:17] Trustee Busheikin: one point someone used the word well the population what is the population and looking at

[4:31:23] Trustee Busheikin: full-time residents versus part-time residents but somehow in my mind I'm like well what about

[4:31:27] Trustee Busheikin: the population of endangered species and the population of intact second growth or I don't

[4:31:37] Trustee Busheikin: know if there's any old growth forest but intact functioning forests what about those populations

[4:31:42] Trustee Busheikin: so it is really complicated and I don't know how to overcome that but I I'm kind of thinking that

[4:31:51] Trustee Busheikin: the major pro i mean maybe the ocp that the bigger ocp um reviews could be simply triggered by time

[4:31:59] Trustee Busheikin: um uh if it's been x number of decades uh and the ltc agrees it needs to be reviewed it would just

[4:32:07] Trustee Busheikin: get reviewed and i think otherwise maybe just maybe needs to be dealt with by trust council

[4:32:13] Trustee Busheikin: in the budget but come through our uh regional planning committee for the major projects in the

[4:32:19] Trustee Busheikin: the meantime um yeah it's it is very complex so yeah thank you and i'm not seeing other hands

[4:32:31] Trustee Busheikin: people are getting tired do we need a bio well because i think we have one more topic

[4:32:37] Trustee Busheikin: uh which is um looking at working at the beginning of the term so why don't we take a bio break

[4:32:45] Trustee Busheikin: break just a five minute like truly a bio break it's 2 32 and come back at 2 37 and move on with

[4:32:51] Trustee Busheikin: session four okay see you soon they're

[4:38:37] Voice 11: early birds eh yep

[4:38:39] Voice 4: well yeah i mean as the chair i kind of

[4:38:43] Voice 4: feel i should be here i wonder what time it really is oh yeah here they all come back

[4:39:12] Trustee Stamford: laura but i

[4:39:13] Trustee Stamford: will turn off my video okay yeah

[4:39:15] Voice 4: when i

[4:39:17] Trustee Busheikin: see director freighter here i don't know maybe

[4:39:22] Trustee Busheikin: Maybe she's been lurking the whole time, but hello, Claire.

[4:39:31] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, welcome.

[4:39:31] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you, and I am lurking.

[4:39:34] Trustee Busheikin: That's just fine.

[4:39:35] Trustee Busheikin: We encourage that.

[4:39:37] Trustee Busheikin: This is, you know, this is a significant topic we're discussing.

[4:39:42] Trustee Busheikin: And just before we start, what I was reflecting on while, you know,

[4:39:48] Trustee Busheikin: bio-breaking and eating chocolate was, you know,

[4:39:53] Trustee Busheikin: how much I'm appreciating this conversation,

[4:39:55] Trustee Busheikin: And I think like a number of us here, it's getting at issues that, I mean, literally have kept me awake at night and literally have had me fighting off tears at times as a trustee around just the frustration of, oh, I think, yeah, and how good it is to discuss it.

[4:40:15] Trustee Busheikin: But what I really want to say is that I feel that the nature of the discussion is pointing exactly at where we want to go in that what I hear everyone doing is talking as a member of a regional network.

[4:40:31] Trustee Busheikin: And I'm hearing in everyone's reflections a real deeply rooted balancing of an understanding of the Islands Trust as a region with regional priorities that are really, and regional values and regional interests and, you know, along with being here as representatives of specific areas in that region.

[4:41:01] Trustee Busheikin: so we are we do have special interests in the islands we live on and and we're elected on

[4:41:07] Trustee Busheikin: and we have interest in the region and I just I guess I'm really sensing there's a

[4:41:12] Trustee Busheikin: a true-hearted um attempt to find a good balance between that rather than kind of fighting it out

[4:41:18] Trustee Busheikin: um and I just I really appreciate that so I wanted to say that and that is where we're going as an

[4:41:24] Trustee Busheikin: organization um and trying to figure out how it works with policy and budgeting and resources

[4:41:30] Trustee Busheikin: good luck to us uh so we're going to go into the last session and i invite heather to uh present to

[4:41:38] Trustee Busheikin: us again thank you yeah

[4:41:41] Voice 18: so this this question is uh we sort of touched on this a little bit already

[4:41:45] Voice 18: and i think there's been some comments on it just about this idea that you know major and

[4:41:50] Voice 18: extraordinary projects be considered at the beginning of the term um or something along

[4:41:57] Voice 18: along those lines.

[4:42:00] Voice 18: And there are a few options within this as well.

[4:42:06] Voice 18: And as Trustee Wolbertin said,

[4:42:08] Voice 18: one of the downsides is as a new trustee,

[4:42:10] Voice 18: you've got to get your head around all of it.

[4:42:12] Voice 18: So it's hard to probably come out of the gate.

[4:42:15] Voice 18: Although as a new trustee,

[4:42:18] Voice 18: you probably have some community concerns

[4:42:21] Voice 18: that are foremost in your mind.

[4:42:24] Voice 18: So those might be things that you wanna see

[4:42:27] Voice 18: if you can address right away right and maybe the if we had an annual or term process that

[4:42:32] Voice 18: you could still capture that kind of thing um so um i don't have much more to say about it

[4:42:38] Voice 18: on this topic and so i think i'll just leave it to you thank

[4:42:43] Trustee Busheikin: you um so i'm ready for speakers

[4:42:50] Trustee Busheikin: it's uh trustee peterson yeah

[4:43:01] Voice 16: thank you chair um i i tend to sympathize with what uh trustee

[4:43:07] Voice 16: wolverton is saying about coming into a term as a new trustee now as as um you know it's certainly

[4:43:17] Voice 16: possible that as a newly elected trustee you've got uh um you know a burning issue that you want

[4:43:23] Voice 16: to take on right away um i think i think if um outgoing ltcs are able to wrap up

[4:43:36] Voice 16: work before the end of the term on on certain projects then i think that that would make the

[4:43:41] Voice 16: equation a bit different coming in as a new uh as a new trustee but i i'm certainly sympathetic

[4:43:47] Voice 16: that you know coming in myself my first term was different than coming in my second term

[4:43:54] Voice 16: um as far as sort of what i i felt were the most important priorities and and that actually

[4:44:04] Voice 16: evolved over community discussion that happened in in the first term i was in so i mean i think

[4:44:13] Voice 16: it's great to think about long long range planning at the beginning of the term and at the same time

[4:44:18] Voice 16: you know you might be starting your new term and uh there's a bunch of great stuff on that

[4:44:26] Voice 16: projects list and and uh that still needs doing and and the issue that you had you know

[4:44:37] Voice 16: burning issue that you had as you were elected in light of some of those other things may or may not

[4:44:43] Voice 16: be the top priority at that point so i'm a little cautious about endorsing um i mean i think it'd be

[4:44:53] Voice 16: great to have a beginning of term sort of visioning of some sort for ltcs and and thinking

[4:45:00] Voice 16: about what you because it's true that some bigger projects are going to take the whole term um and

[4:45:05] Voice 16: and hopefully be completed within the term

[4:45:07] Voice 16: and how you prioritize is gonna have to reflect that.

[4:45:13] Voice 16: But I'm a little cautious about endorsing,

[4:45:15] Voice 16: you know, a process where there's sort of

[4:45:18] Voice 16: a kind of mandatory that you're gonna set the tone

[4:45:22] Voice 16: of the whole term, you know,

[4:45:25] Voice 16: really, really early in the term.

[4:45:27] Voice 16: So that's my thoughts.

[4:45:30] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you, yeah.

[4:45:32] Trustee Busheikin: Yeah, trustee, I think I saw trustee Wilberton's hand at first, I don't know.

[4:45:39] Trustee Busheikin: So trustee Wilberton and then trustee Patrick.

[4:45:43] Voice 7: Yeah, I kind of like an annual focus.

[4:45:47] Voice 7: But one of the things I was thinking is that perhaps LTCs could set their project or projects by, say, March of their first year.

[4:46:03] Voice 7: and that that would allow for that time that that trustee patrick was talking about to really

[4:46:07] Voice 7: identify the problem and and trustee stanford to like identify the problem that you're actually

[4:46:14] Voice 7: trying to solve and and work on that pre-planning phase um and and then it also might indicate to

[4:46:21] Voice 7: an incoming a new incoming trustee you know what what are the things that have been done in this

[4:46:27] Voice 7: area what hasn't been completed uh how can you build on that and and sort of to try to do

[4:46:33] Voice 7: a really good job of that of that pre-planning and planning before you you know you go beyond

[4:46:39] Voice 7: that but if you did that on an annual basis uh it it might um you know it might focus us a little

[4:46:46] Voice 7: better

[4:46:47] Voice 10: thank you

[4:46:50] Trustee Busheikin: trustee patrick yeah

[4:46:53] Trustee Patrick: i mean i think every you know municipal council and every

[4:46:57] Trustee Patrick: all go through the same thing at the beginning of the term you know is having to go through a

[4:47:02] Trustee Patrick: process of of laying out the strategic plan and and i do see them as you know it's well i called

[4:47:09] Trustee Patrick: it less strategic it is sort of a complementary strategic plan of what is trust council or trust

[4:47:15] Trustee Patrick: area or federation work versus the major projects that do reside on an ltc and they do need to have

[4:47:22] Trustee Patrick: have ongoing check-in. You can't see my little drawing here, but I have engagement and Trust

[4:47:29] Trustee Patrick: Council LTC check-ins occurring on a regular basis to the strategic plan, because that's just,

[4:47:35] Trustee Patrick: that is reality. So you start off, you know, the first year, no matter how good your planning is,

[4:47:40] Trustee Patrick: you know, life gives you a pandemic in the middle of it, you know. So, you know, that is what

[4:47:45] Trustee Patrick: the, what planning is about. But I think it's getting, you know, even if we are, I was a new

[4:47:51] Trustee Patrick: trustee it's putting you into that framework of having to sit down and plan with your fellow

[4:47:56] Trustee Patrick: trustees in a public setting lay out you know how you're going to do that you know get that feedback

[4:48:01] Trustee Patrick: and it's in its public process it shows up and what's nice about to me to bring it into some

[4:48:08] Trustee Patrick: form of a the strategic plan or a partner to the strategic plan is now I'm sharing it with all the

[4:48:14] Trustee Patrick: other local trust committees too it's becoming a process where we're working you know together and

[4:48:19] Trustee Patrick: and we can benefit from the greater learning

[4:48:21] Trustee Patrick: of not just, you know, our own fellow trustees,

[4:48:24] Trustee Patrick: but we can hear from others.

[4:48:28] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you.

[4:48:29] Trustee Busheikin: I'll speak also to this.

[4:48:32] Trustee Busheikin: Yeah, I agree at the beginning of term,

[4:48:37] Trustee Busheikin: it can be a bit much.

[4:48:40] Trustee Busheikin: And you would need some education.

[4:48:44] Trustee Busheikin: I mean, what is short-term?

[4:48:45] Trustee Busheikin: What is long-term?

[4:48:45] Trustee Busheikin: What is medium-term?

[4:48:46] Trustee Busheikin: What does it mean to take on a project?

[4:48:50] Trustee Busheikin: you know um how does it fit into the budget it said i mean and trustees come in with such

[4:48:56] Trustee Busheikin: different areas of knowledge around how the trust works and how these things work so

[4:49:00] Trustee Busheikin: like i think something at the beginning of term would be good but i i'm tending after the

[4:49:07] Trustee Busheikin: discussion over the last couple hours to see the annual and have it feed into the budgeting process

[4:49:13] Trustee Busheikin: at some point, you know, maybe coming through RPC.

[4:49:19] Trustee Busheikin: And maybe that would just be for minor, major projects,

[4:49:23] Trustee Busheikin: and maybe minor projects could be initiated more ad hoc.

[4:49:30] Trustee Busheikin: And the other thing that popped up for me is, you know, I think, you know,

[4:49:36] Trustee Busheikin: LTC sometimes they take things on and off of that top priorities list sort

[4:49:41] Trustee Busheikin: sort of strategically and as um opportunities come up so for instance our first nations may say hey

[4:49:48] Trustee Busheikin: do you want to do a c2c with us and we say yeah yeah yeah but then oh we need to put that on our

[4:49:54] Trustee Busheikin: top priorities list because it will take some staff resources but it's not a project that we

[4:50:00] Trustee Busheikin: plan for or um or you know it's our planning project um but it needs to be on the top priorities

[4:50:09] Trustee Busheikin: list and um so i i don't know how to fit those in i wouldn't want to um and i know i could think of

[4:50:19] Trustee Busheikin: other ones that might be i i'm sure we all could if we try think of examples of that kind of thing

[4:50:27] Trustee Busheikin: um sometimes tied to a grant or something a community group is doing uh yeah how to keep

[4:50:33] Trustee Busheikin: flexibility for those kinds of things that um maybe aren't exactly planning projects or or well

[4:50:41] Trustee Busheikin: we had one on denman where it was a planning project where the the uh planning department

[4:50:46] Trustee Busheikin: at vancouver island university came with a proposal to do a little village downtown

[4:50:52] Trustee Busheikin: planning charrette and as their year-end project and it was it was a really wonderful offer and

[4:50:59] Trustee Busheikin: And we're like, OK, but we have to get it onto our top priorities list because it did involve some of our planning staff, for sure, and some administrative and organizing work.

[4:51:08] Trustee Busheikin: So that's just an open question of how to include more ad hoc, maybe short term project work.

[4:51:16] Trustee Busheikin: And maybe it doesn't have to be on the top priorities list. Maybe there's a separate category.

[4:51:22] Trustee Busheikin: I don't know. Those are my thoughts. Thank you.

[4:51:24] Trustee Busheikin: and i see director marler's hand and then i'm happy here for many other trustees hi thank you

[4:51:33] Voice 1: yeah i just wanted to um kind of maybe reframe it a little bit and just ask about the idea

[4:51:40] Voice 1: or maybe what i should say is what we're trying to do is be able to give some certainty that we

[4:51:48] Voice 1: can do projects that need to get done so that we're not over um selling and under delivering

[4:51:58] Voice 1: so as an example let's say we know that we would like or a local trust community would like to do

[4:52:05] Voice 1: four or five major projects like let's just say a complete rewrite of lcps that's a major project

[4:52:13] Voice 1: and we're not going to be able to start them all at the same time so we have to then pick using the

[4:52:19] Voice 1: criteria which one would go first but without a known time frame to do that work so a process

[4:52:28] Voice 1: that we've all agreed to a standardized process it would be hard to say to the next trust committee

[4:52:33] Voice 1: we can start yours at this date because we don't know when the first one's going to finish

[4:52:38] Voice 1: right so it's about cooperating between all of them so what we're suggesting for a reframe is

[4:52:44] Voice 1: what about and i think you've kind of alluded to this what what are your thoughts on uh requiring

[4:52:51] Voice 1: all the local trust committees to do some form of a strategic approach to look at what they would

[4:52:57] Voice 1: like what issues they would like to accomplish in their term without specifying specific projects

[4:53:04] Voice 1: projects. Just what are the issues? What is it like to address? And then through some process,

[4:53:10] Voice 1: we can identify those projects on an annual basis that go towards that strategic approach for each

[4:53:17] Voice 1: LTC. And maybe that gets put into council strategic plan in some way, or it stands alone or in some

[4:53:23] Voice 1: other way. And then the other thought is right now we identify projects by LTC. But it might be

[4:53:32] Voice 1: better if we had a single list of projects that um or issues that need to be dealt with with

[4:53:39] Voice 1: identifying which local trust committees are interested in that which then starts to pull

[4:53:44] Voice 1: the synergies together between those ltcs so just a few things to think about and if you've got any

[4:53:49] Voice 1: comments appreciate them

[4:53:52] Trustee Busheikin: thank you comments uh tim go ahead yeah

[4:54:03] Voice 16: i i think uh david's last point

[4:54:05] Voice 16: there was quite interesting um a really good concept to consider and that you know if we've

[4:54:15] Voice 16: sort of identified some of the some of the issues that that we want to work on as ltcs but also if

[4:54:20] Voice 16: we have uh you know regional uh sort of ongoing stuff and have ltcs being able to say yes we want

[4:54:30] Voice 16: to sign on you know a portion of our resources to this regional project i think that might be

[4:54:35] Voice 16: really productive actually um especially in terms of uh of advancing stuff uh that's on the

[4:54:43] Voice 16: council strategic plan you know through through various ltcs so i think i think that would

[4:54:50] Voice 16: definitely merit some more consideration and and a way we might set that out before

[4:54:55] Voice 16: ltcs at the beginning of term and say you know of course you have your local priorities but here's

[4:55:02] Voice 16: some sort of regional priorities and and you know do you want to sign on to one or more of these

[4:55:08] Voice 16: that's worthy of some more uh thought yeah

[4:55:12] Trustee Busheikin: thank you yeah i i agree with that uh trustee stanford

[4:55:17] Trustee Busheikin: i

[4:55:19] Trustee Stamford: i really like the idea of a list that we're we're signed on to then that gives us an idea

[4:55:25] Trustee Stamford: of of where we fit in a federation um and we're not so siloed within our own little islands

[4:55:33] Trustee Stamford: i don't know whether you want to do it regionally or federally um i think either way could work

[4:55:39] Trustee Stamford: um so i think that would be a good idea one of the things i was thinking of is

[4:55:43] Trustee Stamford: in terms of for instance ocps uh i think most of our ocps uh at least the ones i've seen

[4:55:51] Trustee Stamford: reconciliation and reference to the first nations is something that really needs to be updated

[4:55:58] Trustee Stamford: and if that is consistent right across the the federation maybe is that a project in of itself

[4:56:04] Trustee Stamford: um to update all ocps on that particular aspect or you know climate change and that fits within

[4:56:12] Trustee Stamford: the uh the strategic plan and it's um maybe that's another way of looking at it as an operational

[4:56:19] Trustee Stamford: from the strategic plan or one project from the strategic plan that is a priority

[4:56:26] Trustee Stamford: through the federation and how it fits into each for instance that case for the ocps thank you

[4:56:36] Trustee Busheikin: uh yes trustee dodds go ahead

[4:56:40] Voice 3: what kate louise was saying about the um reconciliation and uh so

[4:56:46] Voice 3: yes and going back to what trustee peterson said yes i think there should be some targeted

[4:56:51] Voice 3: topics that then local trust committees can tap into at the time but I think the reconciliation

[4:56:59] Voice 3: one I know that Saturna did some wonderful work in their OCP and that that was sort of on my next

[4:57:04] Voice 3: list when we finished with our housing project so that is certainly what she says about reconciliation

[4:57:10] Voice 3: that is a project that would appeal to me very much so thank you and hopefully that will happen

[4:57:16] Voice 3: and so it doesn't need a lot of work that part

[4:57:21] Trustee Busheikin: anyone else in kate louise remember please put

[4:57:27] Trustee Busheikin: your hand down thank you uh go

[4:57:33] Trustee Patrick: ahead trustee patrick yeah no i mean this is all great i think

[4:57:37] Trustee Patrick: the key thing is is you know because like what i've observed here was like the southern gulf

[4:57:43] Trustee Patrick: islands came together and put water sustainability as a project to get their mapping done and now we

[4:57:48] Trustee Patrick: we have the mapping that's occurring in Denman, Gabriel, and Hornby, and it's not showing up in

[4:57:53] Trustee Patrick: the project list because it's an RPC project, but it's work being done on the island. And so

[4:57:57] Trustee Patrick: this need to call it something and put it somewhere is really not transparent to our

[4:58:03] Trustee Patrick: constituents that work is occurring. And so we really need to keep that in mind that how we can

[4:58:09] Trustee Patrick: show that how that planning relates to our area.

[4:58:17] Trustee Busheikin: Thanks, Jason. I'll just add myself to the

[4:58:19] Trustee Busheikin: speakers list just to add that that is i mean it is a tough job because to make all this

[4:58:25] Trustee Busheikin: transparent because the isles trust is a multi-armed um decentralized organization with

[4:58:33] Trustee Busheikin: a lot going on but it really is worthwhile i mean the you know hearing today about this mapping

[4:58:41] Trustee Busheikin: that's going on it's almost done for the denman um groundwater mapping i'm like oh i had no idea

[4:58:48] Trustee Busheikin: you know and i had a discussion with a community group about 10 days ago about water i'm like well

[4:58:55] Trustee Busheikin: we have this project i can't remember what it is like it's good but it's just like how come we

[4:59:01] Trustee Busheikin: didn't see it and so um yeah that's um i mean that's almost a separate topic but related and

[4:59:10] Trustee Busheikin: And and maybe, you know, maybe, Laura, it's more up to us to keep a really good track and get it out to our communities and make sure that that they know what's going on.

[4:59:23] Trustee Busheikin: I don't know, because I struggle with that one, too.

[4:59:29] Trustee Busheikin: Yeah, that's, I guess, all I want to say.

[4:59:32] Trustee Busheikin: Anyone else not seeing more hands?

[4:59:34] Trustee Busheikin: We're getting pretty tired.

[4:59:35] Trustee Busheikin: We're getting towards the end of our meeting.

[4:59:37] Trustee Busheikin: uh so that was our four um four sessions um and which takes us pretty much to the end of this

[4:59:48] Trustee Busheikin: which is amazing because it's three o'clock is there

[4:59:50] Trustee Busheikin: any final comments from any trustee

[4:59:53] Trustee Busheikin: particularly anyone who hasn't spoken much

[5:00:00] Trustee Busheikin: Okay. And any final

[5:00:02] Voice 16: comments? I saw Heather's hand up, Chair.

[5:00:06] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, good. Go ahead. I was just going to say any comments from staff. Go ahead. Or

[5:00:09] Trustee Busheikin: even a last question for us. Yeah, I do think that

[5:00:13] Voice 18: there are some tools that we as staff,

[5:00:16] Voice 18: I mean, and it's kind of already happening. The regional planning team has formed.

[5:00:20] Voice 18: They've been having regular meetings. And they're just starting to talk about the projects they're

[5:00:26] Voice 18: working on and that they weren't necessarily aware of from the other regions before, right?

[5:00:31] Voice 18: So there's some internal communication pieces that we could also incorporate that I think

[5:00:38] Voice 18: would make it better.

[5:00:39] Voice 18: And perhaps with a new website, things will get a little bit, there's tools we can use,

[5:00:45] Voice 18: for instance, to gather all of the work that we've already done and be able to reference

[5:00:52] Voice 18: it more easy, more easily, right, as opposed to Hatton and packing on the website, or a list that

[5:01:00] Voice 18: has all of our planners who are experts in certain topics, you know, so there are some also

[5:01:08] Voice 18: communication pieces that we can incorporate that that aren't necessarily that are internal. And,

[5:01:14] Voice 18: and we're exploring those as well.

[5:01:17] Trustee Busheikin: That's great. Thank you. Yeah. And I see a clear freighters

[5:01:21] Trustee Busheikin: head and then Director Marler but I'll take Director Frater first because we haven't heard

[5:01:26] Trustee Busheikin: from her. Go ahead.

[5:01:28] Voice 14: Hi thank you my video's off due to a back injury but just wanted to let you

[5:01:33] Voice 14: know that there'll be an invitation coming in the next few weeks here for you to review the

[5:01:37] Voice 14: draft new website and within that I'd ask you to keep in mind some of the conversations you've

[5:01:42] Voice 14: had today particularly as they relate to how you communicate about projects. You'll see there's a

[5:01:46] Voice 14: a big change coming around how we're providing the documents associated with projects we're

[5:01:52] Voice 14: putting them in a folder structure similar to the way applications are provided now

[5:01:55] Voice 14: and that's for a number of reasons I can explain when I send the email out but we are allowing

[5:02:01] Voice 14: hopefully it's for better document management on the website but I'm hoping it also helps

[5:02:07] Voice 14: administratively there's a lot of work associated with constantly posting and hyperlinking transitory

[5:02:12] Voice 14: documents but as you look through the structure of the new website please do send in feedback if

[5:02:16] Voice 14: you see a different or better way to share news about projects for example that example just given

[5:02:22] Voice 14: by trustee patrick around rpc projects benefiting a local island that's currently not addressed so

[5:02:29] Voice 14: as you look at the new site if you see a way to address it it might be through the programs menu

[5:02:33] Voice 14: it's mentioned there but not reflected locally that's the kind of feedback we're really interested

[5:02:37] Voice 14: and getting along with all the typos other issues you see but um structurally i would like to hear

[5:02:43] Voice 14: from you around all of those sorts of things particularly okay that's it thank you director

[5:02:49] Trustee Busheikin: marler yeah

[5:02:50] Voice 1: thank you and uh actually claire reminded me that the policy statement uh review

[5:02:57] Voice 1: that's ongoing this year will presumably result in some changes to the policy statement to directive

[5:03:03] Voice 1: policies so one thing council will be asked to consider is how do you implement that in the

[5:03:10] Voice 1: lcps and then through to the land use bylaws so any new policy whether it's uh reconciliation

[5:03:16] Voice 1: climate change or housing those are three topic areas um you know there would be some desire

[5:03:23] Voice 1: obviously to implement that so you know the ways that that could happen is council could

[5:03:28] Voice 1: just say well we'll just deal with it as new lcps are amended that's something that

[5:03:33] Voice 1: will have to be addressed so leave it up to trust committees that's one option another is a bit more

[5:03:38] Voice 1: proactive and council could put money and resources into reviewing and updating those

[5:03:45] Voice 1: ocps in some way so i think this discussion today helps to set us up because we're going to have to

[5:03:52] Voice 1: think about that in addition to all of the other reasons why projects need to be done i found this

[5:03:59] Voice 1: it's really helpful. I do want to come back to you with some recommended changes to council's

[5:04:05] Voice 1: policies. I think there's about three policies. There's one on priority setting. There's another

[5:04:11] Voice 1: one that's kind of related to that. It's on reporting to council, I think it is. And then

[5:04:16] Voice 1: there's the best practices in local planning services delivery to local trust committees.

[5:04:21] Voice 1: is so the intent then is to um look at how can we update those policies to support a robust

[5:04:31] Voice 1: maybe flexible way of addressing these issues so that we can create a situation where we can

[5:04:38] Voice 1: deliver on the project not just put them in you know get money for them and then find that we

[5:04:47] Voice 1: can't we can't do them more it's too much and you know if you talk to the planners they'll tell you

[5:04:53] Voice 1: the same thing that they would much rather spend more time and do a better job on one or two

[5:04:58] Voice 1: projects where they can really focus rather than do like a worse job on trying to do too many things

[5:05:06] Voice 1: at once and then things get missed right so i'm pretty sure the planners would tell you that and

[5:05:11] Voice 1: And so that's part of this is just looking for that.

[5:05:16] Voice 1: And then finally, as you know,

[5:05:18] Voice 1: it doesn't get easier to do any of the planning

[5:05:22] Voice 1: because there's more and more things to consider.

[5:05:24] Voice 1: If you were doing this 20 years ago,

[5:05:26] Voice 1: it would probably be a lot quicker and easier.

[5:05:29] Voice 1: But there's a lot of requirements

[5:05:32] Voice 1: for consultation expectations from the public.

[5:05:37] Voice 1: There's reconciliation with First Nations

[5:05:39] Voice 1: and then there's climate change

[5:05:41] Voice 1: and all of the issues around that that have to be dealt with.

[5:05:44] Voice 1: So I think planning on the islands just gets harder

[5:05:48] Voice 1: and more complicated as time goes on.

[5:05:51] Voice 1: So got to keep that in mind as well.

[5:05:54] Voice 1: Maybe 20 years ago when these policies were created,

[5:05:58] Voice 1: it made sense that we could handle three projects per LTC

[5:06:02] Voice 1: just because of what that entailed.

[5:06:05] Voice 1: Whereas today that's not really possible anymore.

[5:06:09] Voice 1: And just one final thing I want to say is that

[5:06:12] Voice 1: when I started Allen's Trust in 1995 there were five senior planners and five planners so there

[5:06:19] Voice 1: was 10 planners in 1995 and today we have 14 so since 1995 we've increased the planners by four

[5:06:27] Voice 1: and you know so something just keep that in mind that there's a lot of work getting done

[5:06:35] Voice 1: anyway so I'll leave it at that I'll take this away and we'll draft something for you to think

[5:06:41] Voice 1: about at the next meeting in may and it could probably be maybe a bit of a discussion paper

[5:06:47] Voice 1: more than actual policy amendments to outline some suggestions and then we can talk about specific

[5:06:53] Voice 1: policy amendments and what you're comfortable with and what some of the issues might be

[5:06:58] Voice 1: okay back to the chair thank

[5:07:00] Trustee Busheikin: you thank you i'm not going to open a discussion on if we should

[5:07:04] Trustee Busheikin: be looking at hiring more planners but not today maybe maybe as we come closer to the next fiscal

[5:07:11] Trustee Busheikin: school year's budget um i want to thank everyone for a really great meeting a lot of important

[5:07:18] Trustee Busheikin: stuff was talked about i want to especially thank all the staff that showed up who normally don't

[5:07:22] Trustee Busheikin: come to this meeting and and spent their afternoon or really most of the day with us um it was really

[5:07:28] Trustee Busheikin: useful to have your input uh from uh everyone and also i i i really love the idea that the

[5:07:35] Trustee Busheikin: conversation has been shared more widely throughout the organization because i think these

[5:07:39] Trustee Busheikin: these issues uh even though they're planning issues they touch on all the work of the trust uh

[5:07:46] Trustee Busheikin: so uh that's all i guess without uh no one has any final remarks okay thank you a

[5:07:54] Voice 11: big thank you

[5:07:56] Voice 11: to heather and david for this is very useful

[5:07:58] Trustee Busheikin: yeah very useful um the conversation i mean i can say

[5:08:03] Trustee Busheikin: as a chair it felt very easy because the conversation was uh contextualized and

[5:08:10] Trustee Busheikin: structured uh by the work that was done the kind of pre-planning work uh so thank you for that

[5:08:17] Trustee Busheikin: and

[5:08:18] Voice 1: if i may i just want to thank robert and stefan for um being here as well and listening

[5:08:24] Voice 1: and joining in and also uh helping with uh reviewing those slides that heather presented

[5:08:31] Voice 1: to you so thank you

[5:08:32] Voice 1: and thank you heather for doing that yeah

[5:08:35] Trustee Busheikin: good okay and we'll see you all

[5:08:38] Trustee Busheikin: in um oh well we have the rest of the agenda sorry uh work program don't work so can we just

[5:08:45] Trustee Busheikin: say that we're happy with the work program as presented there it is i mean we've talked a lot

[5:08:54] Trustee Busheikin: about work programs and i will then we'll go on next meeting um is wednesday may 12 2021 uh and

[5:09:05] Trustee Busheikin: now i will adjourn the meeting thank you

[5:09:07] Voice 11: i second it

[5:09:09] Trustee Busheikin: okay by general consent meeting is over

[5:09:13] Trustee Busheikin: all

[5:09:14] Voice 1: right thanks everybody yeah bye all right talk to you later yeah

[5:09:18] Trustee Busheikin: thank you