Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee regular meeting, June 17, 2021

[0:00:25] Voice 8: Hey. How's everybody today on this beautiful day?

[0:00:28] Voice 1: Pretty sweet. Awesome.

[0:00:32] Voice 1: I made it back to

[0:00:33] Voice 1: Salt Spring, so I'm actually in the same time zone now, so that's good. I started work and

[0:00:39] Voice 1: everything, so hitting the ground running. Awesome.

[0:00:47] Voice 3: Ronan, you're enjoying the sun.

[0:00:48] Voice 3: You're outside there.

[0:00:50] Voice 8: Yeah, well, yes. It's to find an appropriate background.

[0:01:03] Voice 8: actually it's finding bit of shade is so we

[0:01:11] Voice 14: have six people so chair you can

[0:01:15] Voice 14: start anytime and

[0:01:18] Voice 8: should we give it a couple minutes we're right at one o'clock

[0:01:23] Voice 8: right typically

[0:01:25] Voice 14: unless there's some reason to delay we but it's up to you

[0:01:29] Voice 14: which we try to be on time you

[0:01:32] Voice 8: can

[0:01:36] Voice 14: always acknowledge the ones who join in

[0:01:39] Voice 14: later after the roll call okay

[0:01:42] Voice 8: great so um well it's a couple minutes after one o'clock

[0:01:46] Voice 8: so i guess we should start the meeting um thank you all for being here i'm grateful to have this

[0:01:52] Voice 8: meeting on the coast salish first nations territory um recognizing the unceded territories

[0:01:58] Voice 8: that we're on um i guess i need to do a roll call so um say i suppose if you're here is carrie here

[0:02:10] Voice 8: here. Daniel, are you here? Daniel is here. Okay. So yes to Daniel. So I'm going to use

[0:02:27] Voice 8: this format. Is Amber here? No. Stanley?

[0:02:33] Voice 8: Yes.

[0:02:34] Voice 8: I see Stanley. All right. James?

[0:02:38] Voice 8: Hi.

[0:02:39] Voice 8: James here. Mir? Mir is not here yet. Hopefully he'll be here. Nijma, I see you.

[0:02:48] Voice 8: you. Yvonne? She's not here yet. Jessica?

[0:02:56] Voice 14: She notified us that she won't be able to come.

[0:02:59] Voice 8: Okay. Bryce? Yeah. Hi, Bryce. Okay. So three, four, five, including myself, I guess that makes

[0:03:09] Voice 8: quorum. So I suggest that we proceed.

[0:03:16] Voice 7: Sorry, Ronan, excuse me. I'm not part of the quorum,

[0:03:19] Voice 7: I hope you realize yes

[0:03:20] Voice 8: I do thank you Peter um we have six without you so oh

[0:03:26] Voice 7: good yeah nice to see

[0:03:28] Voice 7: you and I said to staff um who originally didn't want my face to show and I said if this was in a

[0:03:34] Voice 7: proper meeting I'd be in the back you know in the back corner of the room um and I'd say I'd like to

[0:03:39] Voice 7: participate not participate but attend like a possible that's what all I'm doing

[0:03:45] Voice 8: excellent

[0:03:46] Voice 8: Excellent. I'm glad you're here, Peter. It's really great to see you. Thank you for being here.

[0:03:51] Voice 8: So I guess the first step is, forgive me all, I'm new to being a chair. So I'm learning as we go.

[0:03:58] Voice 8: And so if you need to remind me of something, please feel free to remind me of something I

[0:04:03] Voice 8: might need to be paying attention to. And I'm going to be trying to make sure that everyone

[0:04:11] Voice 8: gets a chance to speak. So if for some reason I don't see you or you know speak up please

[0:04:18] Voice 8: so that I don't miss anybody. So the first step is the approval of the agenda.

[0:04:25] Voice 8: Has everyone had a chance to find and see the agenda package? Yes. I guess it's a rhetorical

[0:04:32] Voice 8: question um so um is there any changes anyone would like to add to the agenda um hi Mira I

[0:04:47] Voice 8: see that Mira is joining us late uh just on time I

[0:04:53] Voice 4: had difficulty getting on it kept asking for

[0:04:55] Voice 4: a password oh

[0:04:56] Voice 8: no well that's great that you're here sorry

[0:05:01] Voice 14: chair just so you know I got a message

[0:05:03] Voice 14: that uh Yvonne oh there she is hi

[0:05:11] Voice 8: Yvonne we see that you've arrived we're just in the process of

[0:05:14] Voice 8: just called the order so adding Yvonne and Mir to our attendance and we're just

[0:05:21] Voice 8: about to look at the agenda and approve the agenda does anyone have any items

[0:05:26] Voice 8: they'd like to add to the agenda there

[0:05:30] Voice 4: were a couple of points I brought up at

[0:05:32] Voice 4: the last meeting don't have the agenda in front of me but what can we learn

[0:05:44] Voice 4: from the past housing studies and reports that had no impact how do we

[0:05:49] Voice 4: ensure we don't have the same result is there something with this group the

[0:05:56] Voice 4: ounce trust has put in place to ensure that we don't end up empty-handed at the

[0:06:03] Voice 4: end that's my first okay

[0:06:06] Voice 8: so would you like to move to add that to the agenda

[0:06:09] Voice 8: yeah I

[0:06:11] Voice 8: move that is there a second I

[0:06:13] Voice 1: second yeah okay

[0:06:17] Voice 8: so can I can I just a

[0:06:23] Voice 8: point to that um you were talking about um past studies um another as stanley also mentioned last

[0:06:32] Voice 8: meeting about past projects or or projects that have had difficulties can can we include those

[0:06:38] Voice 8: you know past studies and and projects as kind of two items in a similar category or are they

[0:06:43] Voice 8: separate no

[0:06:44] Voice 5: i think we could do them as similar but the argument is learning from the past and

[0:06:49] Voice 5: not repeating the same mistakes. Okay.

[0:06:54] Voice 14: May I suggest maybe amend the agenda to add 3.1a

[0:07:01] Voice 14: between 3.1 and 3.2?

[0:07:04] Voice 8: That this there is 3.1a?

[0:07:07] Voice 14: It helps Sarah to report that.

[0:07:09] Voice 8: Okay. All right,

[0:07:13] Voice 8: so we can update the agenda to 3.1a. Do we need to do a vote to add this to the agenda?

[0:07:29] Voice 8: I

[0:07:30] Voice 14: just noticed that the item 3.1, because Jessica is not here, I propose to move it

[0:07:37] Voice 14: to the next meeting, if that's okay.

[0:07:40] Voice 8: Okay.

[0:07:41] Voice 8: Does anyone else have anything to discuss about communication issues?

[0:07:49] Voice 8: issues?

[0:07:50] Voice 12: I just feel it's very important that we communicate and have conversations together if

[0:07:56] Voice 12: possible because then you get a real feedback. I find on Zoom it's often difficult to have

[0:08:02] Voice 12: communications because when you're around a table speaking I find that the communication flows much

[0:08:09] Voice 12: more freely so if we can once the COVID thing hopefully gets resolved and gets better maybe

[0:08:17] Voice 12: Maybe we could have meetings in person rather than do it on Zoom.

[0:08:20] Voice 12: I don't know what anyone else thinks, but I just think it's a really good idea.

[0:08:24] Voice 9: Well, I think that's a very good idea.

[0:08:25] Voice 9: I'm sitting in a resource room in the library here that I can book every,

[0:08:29] Voice 9: I have booked for every third Thursday now.

[0:08:32] Voice 9: There's lots of room.

[0:08:34] Voice 9: There's nobody in here.

[0:08:35] Voice 9: We could certainly socially distance very easily and get to see one another a bit more.

[0:08:40] Voice 9: You know, I took the liberty of going for a walk with Ronan since our last meeting

[0:08:45] Voice 9: because i needed to come up to speed with some of the terminology that i wasn't familiar with

[0:08:49] Voice 9: and that was very helpful and also had a very nice meeting the other day with mir at his home

[0:08:54] Voice 9: because i was totally ignorant about rammed earth and i had a very interesting tour of his facility

[0:08:59] Voice 9: too so i think it's helpful to try to get together more than once a month and i think it would help

[0:09:05] Voice 9: if we could be in a bit of a more uh friendly setting where we can actually converse a little

[0:09:11] Voice 9: bit more yes

[0:09:12] Voice 12: absolutely i totally agree just

[0:09:15] Voice 8: like to intercede because this we're just approving

[0:09:17] Voice 8: the agenda so would would we like to keep a discussion of communication on the the agenda

[0:09:23] Voice 8: as item 3.1 oh it seems

[0:09:27] Voice 8: that way okay well let's let's keep that on there then if that's okay

[0:09:32] Voice 8: uh luisa yeah yeah so we'll come back to that we'll come back to the issues of discussion um

[0:09:37] Voice 8: when we get to there um so then we'll add um the mirrors point has 3.1a is that correct

[0:09:47] Voice 14: do

[0:09:48] Voice 8: we need to do so do we do we need to vote on that or is that accepted you

[0:09:52] Voice 14: need to yeah

[0:09:53] Voice 14: Yeah, you changed the agenda.

[0:09:55] Voice 14: Okay,

[0:09:57] Voice 8: so everyone in favor, say yay.

[0:10:00] Voice 8: Yay.

[0:10:01] Voice 8: Harry?

[0:10:02] Voice 8: Yay.

[0:10:02] Voice 1: Yay.

[0:10:06] Voice 8: The

[0:10:06] Voice 1: 1A, 3.8 to the 1A.

[0:10:09] Voice 8: Okay, and there was also, I also had an item that I had suggested in the letter that I wrote to the group that was shared in the agenda package.

[0:10:21] Voice 8: There's one about objectives and goals, which was actually originally raised by Mira last meeting, that is on the agenda, but I also wanted to have a discussion about short-term immediate actions that this group could recommend to the LTC based on our collective experience.

[0:10:40] Voice 8: I'd like that we add that to the agenda. Is there anyone to second?

[0:10:45] Voice 14: Second.

[0:10:46] Voice 1: Chair.

[0:10:47] Voice 8: Yeah.

[0:10:47] Voice 8: Yeah,

[0:10:47] Voice 14: you definitely can do that.

[0:10:50] Voice 14: But just so you know, 3.3, it's totally loose.

[0:10:54] Voice 14: You can add, you can take action, you can bring any conversation you want

[0:10:59] Voice 14: without having to keep amending the agenda.

[0:11:02] Voice 8: Okay, I hear that, except that the way 3.3 is worded, it's so large.

[0:11:07] Voice 8: And this is a very specific topic.

[0:11:09] Voice 8: Sure.

[0:11:10] Voice 8: I would like to have a zone point, if that's okay.

[0:11:13] Voice 8: So do I have a second?

[0:11:15] Voice 1: I second.

[0:11:17] Voice 8: Thank you, Nishma.

[0:11:20] Voice 8: So could we vote to have that item added to the agenda as maybe 3.2a?

[0:11:30] Voice 5: Aye.

[0:11:31] Voice 8: Carried.

[0:11:31] Voice 8: Aye.

[0:11:33] Voice 8: Carried?

[0:11:33] Voice 8: Okay, thank you.

[0:11:40] Voice 8: Okay, so would some like to move to accept the agenda?

[0:11:45] Voice 3: I'll do so.

[0:11:47] Voice 8: Second.

[0:11:48] Voice 8: All in favor?

[0:11:50] Voice 8: Aye.

[0:11:51] Voice 8: Okay, carried.

[0:11:52] Voice 8: We've got an agenda. Thank you, everyone. Forgive me for being a little bit loose. I'm new to this.

[0:12:03] Voice 4: Doing great.

[0:12:04] Voice 8: Great, thank you. So I guess the first thing on the agenda is approval, section 1.2, approval of the draft minutes from the last meeting.

[0:12:14] Voice 8: Does anyone have anything to add or any comments about the minutes from the last meeting?

[0:12:22] Voice 5: I move their acceptance.

[0:12:25] Voice 8: Is there a second?

[0:12:25] Voice 8: I

[0:12:26] Voice 1: second they were very thorough and met all the points for sure okay

[0:12:31] Voice 8: um all in favor of accepting

[0:12:33] Voice 8: the minutes from last meeting all

[0:12:35] Voice 1: right hi carried

[0:12:37] Voice 8: okay moving right along to um the point

[0:12:42] Voice 8: two the housing action program status um point 2.1 pilot project framework uh this is I believe

[0:12:51] Voice 8: presentation from staff?

[0:12:53] Voice 14: Chair, before we start, I just want to make sure all the members that

[0:12:57] Voice 14: joined late are showing on the record.

[0:13:01] Voice 8: Okay, looks to me, right, we've acknowledged Mira and Yvonne,

[0:13:06] Voice 8: but I see Maiken now here. Hi, Maiken. Welcome. Hi,

[0:13:12] Voice 11: everybody. Yeah, sorry, I was having trouble

[0:13:15] Voice 11: with the link to connect but nice to meet everybody

[0:13:19] Voice 8: thanks for being here

[0:13:22] Voice 8: sorry

[0:13:26] Voice 14: I'm just getting ready I'm gonna share the screen if that's okay and you

[0:13:40] Voice 14: see they proposed draft in front of you the tiny homes village yes

[0:13:45] Voice 3: okay so

[0:13:47] Voice 14: staff

[0:13:48] Voice 14: been working on the background on a couple of things we want to share with

[0:13:52] Voice 14: you and again this is just a draft it's not done that's why we didn't send it as

[0:13:56] Voice 14: and attachment because I certainly am concerned about it being so drafty that it became a public

[0:14:03] Voice 14: record and because it's not done yet but before we get too far we just want to run it by this group

[0:14:10] Voice 14: to see is this a good idea any other comments and once I get a sense that this we should move

[0:14:17] Voice 14: forward then we will consolidate finalize the draft and bring it back to you at the next meeting

[0:14:23] Voice 14: for you to review. And if you are happy with it, we can certainly make a resolution to

[0:14:29] Voice 14: move it forward to LTC to consider. The process is a bit lengthy. I'm not really sure on a pilot

[0:14:37] Voice 14: project what kind of what type of resolution we need to go through. So I need to work with

[0:14:42] Voice 14: the legislative clerk to proceed with that. But if this is not a good idea, we can scrap it. That's

[0:14:53] Voice 14: floor under the project charter and so one thing we thought up is a tiny homes village pilot project

[0:15:00] Voice 14: framework we need to have a framework the same set is oh maybe i'll just start and then i'll get into

[0:15:06] Voice 14: the logistic why we couldn't get it ready so essentially this the first paragraph is really

[0:15:12] Voice 14: just talk about the pilot project it was through the project charter when uh the trustees ltc

[0:15:19] Voice 14: decided to look at housing more holistically so it's not just on affordability availability

[0:15:25] Voice 14: density but it's also on climate change the sustainable design all that long list holistically

[0:15:35] Voice 14: as identifying the project charter first paragraph is really introduced the initiative the housing

[0:15:43] Voice 14: action program. And under that program, we propose this tiny home village. The objective

[0:15:50] Voice 14: is to promote fee simple or rental, but it's really, we only specify as a strata subdivision

[0:15:58] Voice 14: because if we do any other subdivision, it's out of our control. It's CRD and we don't have

[0:16:05] Voice 14: the ability, especially when we look at incentive. And that's why it has to be completely within our

[0:16:11] Voice 14: our purview. The goal is to promote innovative design, and we heard a lot about, both from

[0:16:21] Voice 14: trustees and from the community, is look at smaller homes and tiny homes. And we look

[0:16:27] Voice 14: at other jurisdictions, and this has been a very popular concept. Some jurisdictions

[0:16:32] Voice 14: have looked at, and in fact, even move forward as a pilot project. And we want to, on the

[0:16:39] Voice 14: the future we talk about it has to be sustainable at a minimum these are the things that we're

[0:16:44] Voice 14: looking for water quality flooding uh you know it has to have the design need to address all these

[0:16:52] Voice 14: issues kind of identify on the list before you and the pilot project incentive is where it's

[0:17:00] Voice 14: challenging and this is where i'm really reluctant to roll it out because we don't know whether we

[0:17:07] Voice 14: We could do it or not.

[0:17:08] Voice 14: We have not taken it to the technical working group.

[0:17:10] Voice 14: They might have a hard burn.

[0:17:12] Voice 14: We might have to talk about kind of some back and forth conversation to see how to make it work.

[0:17:17] Voice 14: And the funding side, can we even offer funding?

[0:17:20] Voice 14: We don't have anything in our budget.

[0:17:22] Voice 14: So how do we offer that if we think about funding to entice development?

[0:17:28] Voice 14: Having said that, I have to mention in talking to some people from the development communities,

[0:17:37] Voice 14: funding is not really always their concerns in a way.

[0:17:41] Voice 14: In some way it is, but from putting the project forward is really the process, the permitting

[0:17:49] Voice 14: timeline, the complexity of the process.

[0:17:52] Voice 14: process. Funding is when we ask for affordable housing. That's when we have the issue. But

[0:17:59] Voice 14: anyway, that's not part of this conversation. So we still, this is the part of the incentives.

[0:18:06] Voice 14: What are the incentives that will attract people to participate and certainly welcome any ideas?

[0:18:12] Voice 14: And the eligibility is really the process itself. If you are, you know, interested in it and you

[0:18:20] Voice 14: become selected as part of the pilot project. These will be kind of like a requirement.

[0:18:28] Voice 14: And then we have the submittal requirement. Again, the logistic, aside from the incentives,

[0:18:34] Voice 14: we also don't know how many can we embrace. So this is something that we internally need

[0:18:40] Voice 14: to brainstorm a bit and including with you the task force, because there's no funding.

[0:18:45] Voice 14: And if we're not offering funding, how many under the current resource we are already struggling?

[0:18:52] Voice 14: Because if I quote the percentage correctly, we are over 150 percent.

[0:18:59] Voice 14: Jordi can come in and correct me, exceeding our normal volume of permit.

[0:19:04] Voice 14: So we cannot really expedite. What kind of incentive can we offer and how

[0:19:11] Voice 14: many pilot projects per year?

[0:19:13] Voice 14: year. So those are the logistics that we are brainstorming right now. But we want to bring

[0:19:18] Voice 14: it to you for discussions. And of course, I want to point out preferences given to those that are

[0:19:25] Voice 14: near amenities, public amenities, because otherwise, we don't want it to be way up north

[0:19:31] Voice 14: where there's no access and make it really difficult for people to travel. So those are

[0:19:37] Voice 14: out of preference um so with that being said i think we i will be happy to entertain any questions

[0:19:44] Voice 14: and comments should i stop sharing so you guys can um this

[0:19:54] Voice 1: is exciting great it is exciting

[0:19:57] Voice 1: step for sure i'm busy

[0:19:59] Voice 12: busy trying to read through all the all the details but i think

[0:20:04] Voice 12: so in essence what you get is a village um of tiny houses which i think is a great idea

[0:20:21] Voice 8: I'm sorry, we just came back into gallery view, so because we're not in person it's

[0:20:28] Voice 8: difficult to see.

[0:20:29] Voice 8: In fact, I'm sorry, everyone else has got an image and so I'm actually looking at their

[0:20:37] Voice 8: physical hands being raised in their image, so I'm not sure who's first, but Bryce raised

[0:20:42] Voice 8: raised his voice does um maybe we'll hear bryce's point and then and mykin is that okay yeah

[0:20:47] Voice 11: sure i

[0:20:48] Voice 11: just it's just hard being in a meeting when people are rushing to shout over each other that's all

[0:20:52] Voice 11: absolutely

[0:20:52] Voice 8: and this is new for all of us um so we're just getting used to to the the format so

[0:20:58] Voice 8: maybe we can try to be careful to um i'll try to you know raise your hand and i'll try to point to

[0:21:03] Voice 8: to order of speakers okay everyone so uh sorry mykin but i heard bryce pipe up first and then

[0:21:10] Voice 8: And so, Bryson, am I in for now?

[0:21:12] Voice 3: My question would be to the staff, is the purpose of creating tiny home areas,

[0:21:19] Voice 3: does that mean that somebody who wants their tiny home somewhere else cannot put it somewhere else on the island?

[0:21:25] Voice 3: They're only restricted into these tiny home communities?

[0:21:29] Voice 14: So that's not the intent, but for the pilot project to tap into any incentives, this is what we offer.

[0:21:39] Voice 14: offer. So someone can build a tiny home if it meets the current zoning requirement on their

[0:21:45] Voice 14: own.

[0:21:47] Voice 8: Thank you. Great. Thank you. Mike?

[0:21:53] Voice 11: Yeah. Hi, everyone. And Louisa, thank you for your

[0:21:56] Voice 11: presentation. It's very detailed. Thank you for all the work that's gone into that. It's very

[0:22:00] Voice 11: clear. And I appreciate what you're saying also, Bryce. That is a concern that it should not

[0:22:06] Voice 11: allow the restriction of tiny homes elsewhere. This is something I've worked a lot on. I'm a

[0:22:12] Voice 11: i'm a tiny home builder and i've been in consultation with bc crd and the islands

[0:22:19] Voice 11: trust both elected officials and planning officials on this and certainly to answer

[0:22:25] Voice 11: your question luisa there's a huge demand from the people that i serve for this people are asking all

[0:22:32] Voice 11: the time and i believe that there is a way to do it that is not that difficult to meet all the

[0:22:40] Voice 11: requirements in terms of potable water septic fire safety good neighborliness and and so on

[0:22:48] Voice 11: so i would and i don't think we need to have it all figured out from the get-go but in principle

[0:22:53] Voice 11: i could say there's a large proportion of population both low-income people families

[0:22:59] Voice 11: with medium incomes and and really quite a broad consensus of support for tiny homes i have clients

[0:23:06] Voice 11: are quite wealthy also who are interested in tiny homes, though I know our focus is on affordable

[0:23:11] Voice 11: housing. Thank you.

[0:23:14] Voice 8: Thanks, Maiken. Louisa, do you have any comments?

[0:23:19] Voice 14: Yeah, so this is just one of

[0:23:22] Voice 14: the pilot projects that we could propose and so as task force, the reason I didn't make it very clear

[0:23:32] Voice 14: on the agenda and I apologize but the last item meant to give you an example of ideas you can

[0:23:38] Voice 14: discuss today so any action items you feel or measures that you feel need to look at you can

[0:23:45] Voice 14: add to it we don't have to finish it today but at least open the dialogue and I we take notes and

[0:23:52] Voice 14: we will bring back what what are the outstanding items we just continue to discuss this for example

[0:23:58] Voice 14: like pilot project it's not going to be done anytime soon it's going to take a few months

[0:24:03] Voice 14: and i don't believe we need to amend the regulations but the current planners might

[0:24:08] Voice 14: want to kick me in person and say yes we do i i don't think so but there are a lot we need to

[0:24:15] Voice 14: look at and just this project itself we need to figure out how to do a community outreach to even

[0:24:21] Voice 14: get some feedback so it's really raw right now it's really preliminary we just want to test the

[0:24:27] Voice 14: water to see did the task force feel this is a good idea. I got a sense that you do think it's

[0:24:32] Voice 14: a good idea but if we do apply for funding it involves public money so that's why there's a

[0:24:40] Voice 14: restriction on only one pilot project at a time.

[0:24:46] Voice 8: I've got a question as well and so does Najma.

[0:24:48] Voice 8: Najma why don't you go ahead.

[0:24:53] Voice 1: Hi, yeah so this is very exciting. I love the idea of the tiny home

[0:24:57] Voice 1: Home Village, I think that it has worked in a lot of communities, I think, to create some diversity

[0:25:03] Voice 1: amongst the people that are living there, there will have to be a range of sizes. I saw that there

[0:25:08] Voice 1: is some that's like 500 square feet. I had a meeting with the like a senior director at BC

[0:25:15] Voice 1: Housing, actually through the Housing Hub program. And we were talking about this specific thing and

[0:25:20] Voice 1: and looking at this crown land piece on Salt Spring that I'm still vying and looking at that

[0:25:25] Voice 1: I'd love to connect more with you all about. And again, I'm not sure how that all plays in right

[0:25:29] Voice 1: now, but I do see that some could be 500 square feet and that's actually like quite a, it can be

[0:25:35] Voice 1: like a small two bedroom cabin, right? And whereas others can be little. So I think that it's a great

[0:25:40] Voice 1: starting ground, but we need to think about how to, when you're thinking about good neighborly

[0:25:45] Voice 1: lists, like Maiken said, talking about creating some kind of community, social enterprise within

[0:25:51] Voice 1: in the community so some way that the community is engaged with each other um you know so that

[0:25:58] Voice 1: there's like a central hub of some sort that can connect those tiny homes and i think rowan and i

[0:26:03] Voice 1: rowan and i talked about that before the um before this just how to share water and what that looks

[0:26:09] Voice 1: like and all that so it's really amazing and i look forward to seeing kind of how far we can get

[0:26:16] Voice 1: with all of that together but i see is like it's not just going to be one person or one developer

[0:26:21] Voice 1: I see that we all have something really amazing

[0:26:23] Voice 1: to contribute to this.

[0:26:24] Voice 1: So if we can figure out a way to take all our strengths

[0:26:28] Voice 1: to weave it together might be our best option

[0:26:32] Voice 1: for sure in this.

[0:26:33] Voice 1: So, okay, thank you.

[0:26:37] Voice 8: Okay, James, I see I have a question too, but go ahead.

[0:26:40] Voice 8: Yes,

[0:26:41] Voice 9: I just wanted, do we qualify for funding

[0:26:43] Voice 9: under that Housing Hub program?

[0:26:45] Voice 9: We

[0:26:45] Voice 1: do, we do.

[0:26:47] Voice 1: I

[0:26:47] Voice 9: see your capacity to $2.8 billion

[0:26:49] Voice 9: million dollars over the next 10 years so that's a really good thing

[0:26:53] Voice 9: to tap into isn't it

[0:26:54] Voice 1: absolutely

[0:26:55] Voice 1: there's there's actually a lot of funding available and I can somewhat do some of that work

[0:27:01] Voice 1: but I need some help with the proposals but I'm at the point now where if we had a basic operating

[0:27:08] Voice 1: plan that he was actually very keen on the idea of green ground which is this kind of concept I

[0:27:16] Voice 1: have but i'm not attached to that in particular but just the idea of bringing it all together so

[0:27:21] Voice 1: he was very very keen on it so

[0:27:23] Voice 8: louisa i see that you wanted to mention something

[0:27:26] Voice 14: point of order

[0:27:27] Voice 14: uh we need to focus on a community conversation not personal project and also i want to point out

[0:27:36] Voice 14: that yvonne has her hands up for quite a while i'm

[0:27:39] Voice 8: sorry i'm i'm sorry i didn't see one i i've

[0:27:41] Voice 8: also got a question to ask so um and so does mirror okay maybe i can ask my question because

[0:27:46] Voice 8: of them and then we'll and then we'll we'll take Yvonne in the mirror okay um so so my question is

[0:27:54] Voice 8: um so first of all it would be great to see I wasn't able to read everything there so I don't

[0:27:59] Voice 8: actually I haven't been able to absorb what was being proposed and so maybe it's part of the

[0:28:03] Voice 8: communication thing as well it would be great to be able to see a draft even if it's not a finished

[0:28:07] Voice 8: draft before discussing um like this because it's really hard on the fly I don't really I'm not

[0:28:12] Voice 8: fully aware of all those points that were just presented on the screen um so that's a little

[0:28:16] Voice 8: bit difficult to have a meaningful conversation it's nice to have some time to have time to absorb

[0:28:20] Voice 8: that um uh i know i know that the community is also really excited about tiny homes and the tiny

[0:28:27] Voice 8: home village my question is um is this something that the island's trust would you know implement

[0:28:33] Voice 8: like like like would this or are we looking for an opponent are we looking for someone that has

[0:28:37] Voice 8: land to offer for this to be created? I

[0:28:46] Voice 14: haven't thought that far. It's not so

[0:28:49] Voice 14: much of using public property and this is for private development. I'm not sure

[0:28:57] Voice 14: if we even have a lot of land. I don't think, I just don't know enough to answer

[0:29:04] Voice 14: that question but I just want to get back to your first comment about on the

[0:29:09] Voice 14: the fly because we don't even know if the task force liked this idea or not. And we don't want

[0:29:15] Voice 14: to post it and send it as an attachment. It becomes a public document. So that is the reason why you

[0:29:21] Voice 14: don't have a copy. We want to, like I said, test the water. If you think it's a good idea, then we'll

[0:29:27] Voice 14: tweak it a bit, clean it up a bit, then send it as an attachment to you for your review. You can

[0:29:33] Voice 14: certainly add comments to it and send it back to me and we can clean up the version and bring it

[0:29:39] Voice 14: back the next meeting great

[0:29:42] Voice 8: thank you um and so just to clarify as far as like for this pilot

[0:29:46] Voice 8: product to go ahead then it sounds like we'll be looking for a proponent someone who has some

[0:29:51] Voice 8: property that would like to try to do that okay that

[0:29:53] Voice 14: is the logistics we're trying to figure it

[0:29:55] Voice 14: out okay

[0:29:55] Voice 8: um so next we had yvonne yes

[0:29:59] Voice 12: i think the

[0:30:00] Voice 12: concept is wonderful i think it's a really good idea i think it gives people independence as

[0:30:05] Voice 12: opposed to apartment living where they're living in their own little um space i also think it would

[0:30:11] Voice 12: be wonderful because people could grow vegetables and things around their own land so i think it

[0:30:17] Voice 12: would give people a feeling of independence and pride in their own home which i think is critical

[0:30:22] Voice 12: because that way people tend to look after things more than if it's just in an apartment and it

[0:30:27] Voice 12: really the rest of it isn't theirs. I think also we could look maybe at a concept of maybe people

[0:30:34] Voice 12: with say the five or ten acres maybe having four or five of these little cottages if they were

[0:30:40] Voice 12: agreeable on their own property. So I think the village idea is a wonderful one and I like the

[0:30:46] Voice 12: concept but I think also a spin-off of that could be as I say four or five cottages within say ten

[0:30:53] Voice 12: acres which is another um thing that could could easily work then no one actually has to go and buy

[0:30:59] Voice 12: the land um the landowner would then um may be responsible for putting up the the tiny homes

[0:31:06] Voice 12: maybe financing and then they would get an income so it would be like a rental system which is

[0:31:12] Voice 12: another way of doing it but i i think the the concept is a great idea i'm all for it thank you

[0:31:18] Voice 8: Okay, excellent. Louisa?

[0:31:20] Voice 14: So I'm not trying to discourage a lot of discussion

[0:31:24] Voice 14: because I know the last item required a lot of time

[0:31:28] Voice 14: and I want to make sure that I give you the time.

[0:31:31] Voice 14: But essentially, I just want to show it to you

[0:31:33] Voice 14: and see if you guys are frowning and not like it,

[0:31:36] Voice 14: I scrapped the project.

[0:31:38] Voice 14: But because it seems like you guys liked it,

[0:31:40] Voice 14: I'd like to bring it back for full discussion next time.

[0:31:44] Voice 8: Okay, but just quickly,

[0:31:46] Voice 8: there was Amir and Stanley also had their hands raised. Amir, do you have a quick point to add

[0:31:52] Voice 8: before we move on?

[0:31:58] Voice 4: Yeah, I think that the suitability of such an endeavor is

[0:32:06] Voice 4: site dependent. You know, if it's in the Fulford Valley on somebody's agricultural land, then it

[0:32:12] Voice 4: makes quite a bit of sense. If it's in town, maybe not so much. So, you know, it definitely needs to

[0:32:20] Voice 4: be along transportation routes i think that has a lot going for it i think we need to be cognizant

[0:32:25] Voice 4: that we live in kind of a rare social construct you know we live in north america we have

[0:32:37] Voice 4: personal space you don't come within you know six inches of somebody or you feel like or they feel

[0:32:43] Voice 4: like you've invaded their personal space and our architecture shows that you know i'm in india or

[0:32:49] Voice 4: i'm in china

[0:32:50] Voice 4: and your personal space is less than the thickness of your clothing and the architecture

[0:32:55] Voice 4: represents that and if we're to look at what's the greenest then we actually want to densify

[0:33:05] Voice 4: our living and it can be done in a much more beautiful way than row housing but if you have

[0:33:13] Voice 4: have say 10 units that are say 10 tiny houses that are 10 foot by 20 foot and you compare

[0:33:22] Voice 4: that with 10 of those same size units side by side you are using three times the materials

[0:33:32] Voice 4: for walls and you're consuming you're creating three times the heat exchange surface area

[0:33:41] Voice 4: So from a from a green point of view these tiny homes actually don't make a lot of sense. They do

[0:33:45] Voice 4: make sense in response to restrictive bylaws and they do make sense in response to people who want

[0:33:53] Voice 4: to own their own space. So that's my

[0:33:58] Voice 6: brief comment. Okay

[0:34:00] Voice 5: I listened to this and I'm reminded of an old

[0:34:03] Voice 5: slogan, the ideal is the enemy of the good. Louisa has come up with a project or a concept,

[0:34:10] Voice 5: an idea or a thrust whatever you want to call it that obviously is positive and i think that

[0:34:17] Voice 5: um i i read it as the group is all in favor of whatever bodies also have to work on this

[0:34:26] Voice 5: proceeding and hopefully at some degree of speed um along with the ideal being the enemy of the

[0:34:36] Voice 5: good. We'd like to get something done, perhaps in my lifetime, and I'm already 87. So I think that

[0:34:43] Voice 5: sufficient for this group at the moment to endorse in principle this initiative, and I'd like to so

[0:34:50] Voice 5: move.

[0:34:54] Voice 14: Chair, it is not an action item, so you don't have to imagine that we could do anything,

[0:35:00] Voice 14: just an update. But also I want to make a point, this is just the pilot project component.

[0:35:05] Voice 14: component. We still look into OCP on policies to support tiny homes and also land use by-homes.

[0:35:14] Voice 14: So it's a long journey in a sense. We do want to move fast, but because we do have a lot

[0:35:21] Voice 14: of people knocking on our doors, for the lack of better words, about what is a pilot project.

[0:35:26] Voice 14: So we want to just kind of put one out and just give a sense if this is doable.

[0:35:31] Voice 14: Okay,

[0:35:34] Voice 8: thank you. So will we expect to get more information for the next meeting?

[0:35:38] Voice 8: Yes.

[0:35:39] Voice 8: I see Mikan has his hand up. Mikan?

[0:35:42] Voice 11: Yeah, I'll try

[0:35:43] Voice 11: and be brief because I appreciate we need to move on.

[0:35:45] Voice 11: And I really appreciate each and every contribution I've heard Najma and Yvonne, I believe, addressing the issue of belonging, you know, not only for the person's fulfillment, but there's a perception with tiny homes that they favor transients and so on in the community.

[0:36:02] Voice 11: so anything that favors investment and pride in the community I think is very good and the issue

[0:36:09] Voice 11: also of the farmland has been raised and that's that's another advantage potentially of how these

[0:36:15] Voice 11: can be used is support for people who have farmland and don't have people to to work in or

[0:36:22] Voice 11: seniors who have land and could benefit from having people around there's so many angles to

[0:36:29] Voice 11: this that I think we can explore.

[0:36:36] Voice 8: Michael, you went on to mute. Maybe there was something happening in the background.

[0:36:41] Voice 11: Yeah, no, I just turned off the microphone because of the background noise. I was trying

[0:36:45] Voice 11: to be brief. I'm sure we'll have a chance to all talk about this in the future. Thank

[0:36:48] Voice 11: you.

[0:36:49] Voice 8: Yeah, thank you. So that sounds like a pretty popular topic of discussion. Is it appropriate

[0:36:58] Voice 8: now to move on to the next point, Louisa?

[0:37:01] Voice 8: okay thank

[0:37:04] Voice 14: you uh and i need to share this screen again and so the next topic is again it's just

[0:37:13] Voice 14: test the ground to see if you guys like that idea we're working on an incentive program and the goal

[0:37:21] Voice 14: is to promote sustainable design and for green building thus right now we don't want to make it

[0:37:29] Voice 14: into a regulatory requirement we want to start off as an incentive to entice people to do that

[0:37:36] Voice 14: but again there are challenges for doing so so one thing we want to utilize is a third party

[0:37:44] Voice 14: certification program so that way because we don't have the resource and we want to make

[0:37:49] Voice 14: sure that there is a way to measure it when i was in another jurisdictions in canada i

[0:37:55] Voice 14: I actually gone through a quite lengthy process and even, I would say, invited the executive director from Built Green to the city just to understand their program.

[0:38:08] Voice 14: And they met with the mayor and council. It's a very pretty popular program across Canada.

[0:38:15] Voice 14: The beauty about this is like LEED, they have a checklist and this is their website that I'm showing you.

[0:38:22] Voice 14: they do single family multi-family high density they don't do commercial the beauty of that is

[0:38:30] Voice 14: like lead they have a consistent checklist very transparent process but unlike lead they're very

[0:38:38] Voice 14: much cheaper and more achievable and the only requirement for a builder or homeowner need to do

[0:38:47] Voice 14: is hire a builder or a contractor that is a member so because the member I think there's a list

[0:38:55] Voice 14: probably it's not all right here so becoming a member is really the contractor and the builder

[0:39:01] Voice 14: or the developer because they got trained through their system and they would know how to utilize

[0:39:07] Voice 14: the build green process so this is something we look into perhaps go into a program saying

[0:39:14] Voice 14: for those who utilize in you know the building system I want to see if I can pull out just a

[0:39:21] Voice 14: quick look at this is kind of their checklist it's a proprietary information so I definitely

[0:39:28] Voice 14: cannot share because this is for members for the builders that's what they use one thing good about

[0:39:35] Voice 14: it is a lot of the times of the new constructions and a lot under the step

[0:39:44] Voice 14: code and the energy code of the building code with the modernization of the

[0:39:51] Voice 14: requirement it's really getting really close to green building so a builder

[0:39:56] Voice 14: doesn't have to do much more to be certified so this is what we want to

[0:40:02] Voice 14: promote it was pretty well received at the past jurisdictions i have not test how it's like across

[0:40:09] Voice 14: canada in other jurisdictions that participate with built green i know a lot of those cities

[0:40:15] Voice 14: are doing that but there's something to consider and the incentive could be maybe it's you know if

[0:40:23] Voice 14: you do affordable housing and you have certified if all your homes are certified by built green

[0:40:28] Voice 14: maybe it's really expediting the process or something like that uh because we have limited

[0:40:34] Voice 14: fun as far as you know we cannot do pilot project and incentives all at once we just don't have the

[0:40:42] Voice 14: funding um one thing i did forget to mention when we talk about funding um i actually i don't know

[0:40:53] Voice 14: if I can do it quickly bear with me because I was looking at this so there is the FCM

[0:40:59] Voice 14: they do offer funding for green municipal fund so this is just an idea they have the program

[0:41:09] Voice 14: I don't have to go into that I want to give you guys more time to cover your topic we want to

[0:41:16] Voice 14: look into the green building fund because it is really to support municipalities meaning we can

[0:41:22] Voice 14: apply for it as local jurisdiction to support green building design program like this.

[0:41:31] Voice 14: So this is something we want to bring to you to let you know this is what we're working on

[0:41:36] Voice 14: in the background. We want to also kind of see how you guys feel. Do you think this is a good program?

[0:41:44] Voice 14: Do you know another third party certification program we could utilize? We did do some research

[0:41:49] Voice 14: and we feel built green is more feasible so again happy to entertain quick comments

[0:41:57] Voice 8: i see i see najma go ahead um

[0:42:00] Voice 1: yes i think it's very important that there is that accountability

[0:42:04] Voice 1: piece brought into um how it is unfolding what i'm a concern is is that um we already have like a

[0:42:12] Voice 1: there's a scarcity of solid contractors and developers that can even to keep it on island

[0:42:19] Voice 1: Right. So when you're working in that sort of domain already and now you're saying that there's whole other level that the contractor is going to have to be able to provide this extra level of membership to to be able to do a project.

[0:42:33] Voice 1: I mean, I just feel like it's creating more limitation. And what I would like to see is something where it's more like not so proprietary and there's some more open sourced green building certification that can happen.

[0:42:46] Voice 1: And I know that Ronan, we were looking at something you, you, what was that?

[0:42:51] Voice 1: That was the leaf for the flower, the

[0:42:52] Voice 8: living,

[0:42:53] Voice 1: the living building challenge.

[0:42:55] Voice 1: And so that was really interesting.

[0:42:57] Voice 1: But basically if we can figure out a way that we can get the actual people involved in the

[0:43:03] Voice 1: building as well.

[0:43:04] Voice 1: So finding a developer that's willing to work with others hands-on that are actually getting

[0:43:09] Voice 1: into like into a sweat equity situation.

[0:43:11] Voice 1: So we're, we're creating opportunities for people to actually be involved in the process

[0:43:16] Voice 1: of building their own homes will actually is also a green building thing but i think that um

[0:43:22] Voice 1: it creates it creates even more it's more narrow we're creating a more narrow tunnel for

[0:43:26] Voice 1: for um for the development to happen quicker i think luisa

[0:43:33] Voice 8: you had a response to that i think

[0:43:35] Voice 14: it's a great idea you just give me an idea i'm not sure again it's new just pop up so i haven't

[0:43:41] Voice 14: unfiltered um maybe it's something that we can look into policy to support local contractor to

[0:43:48] Voice 14: become the member okay

[0:43:52] Voice 8: yeah

[0:43:53] Voice 1: so like making the member sorry just to to reply making making it

[0:43:58] Voice 1: so that they they must be or maybe the municipal green funding can help fund the membership for

[0:44:04] Voice 1: local contractors is that what you mean or that they have to be i

[0:44:09] Voice 14: don't know yet i can look into

[0:44:10] Voice 14: to do that that's interesting yeah i

[0:44:14] Voice 8: see daniel do you have a point oh

[0:44:18] Voice 10: i just wanted to echo uh

[0:44:19] Voice 10: nejma's first point too i my only worry would be it sounds like i mean particularly the staff i

[0:44:25] Voice 10: mean everyone is so busy but i gather the staff has got so much going i wonder if it's the the

[0:44:30] Voice 10: resources we would be if any resources we have could go to other activities i mean i know

[0:44:36] Voice 10: know some of these happen in parallel but it seems like it's kind of creating more weeds and

[0:44:41] Voice 10: complication amounts i suspect to various people everyone's going to have their own opinions about

[0:44:45] Voice 10: which green program things like the living building challenge um are going to end up being

[0:44:51] Voice 10: a conflict here i would personally prefer to put focus on things like the tiny village and

[0:44:57] Voice 10: ronan is going to have his proposal stuff like that my inclination would be to focus on that

[0:45:07] Voice 8: Just

[0:45:07] Voice 14: to respond to that, I really appreciate that and not a lot of appointed body actually

[0:45:15] Voice 14: pay a lot of attention to staff resources, so I'm really grateful for that.

[0:45:20] Voice 14: That's why we look to outside third party because we don't have to do any work.

[0:45:26] Voice 14: They just have to demonstrate that the product is compliance because it's certified in order

[0:45:32] Voice 14: to tap into the incentive program um

[0:45:37] Voice 8: thank you i've got a comment about this um i think it's

[0:45:42] Voice 8: really exciting i think it's something we need to explore um because we want to we we want to

[0:45:47] Voice 8: encourage the community to build more ecologically that's been mentioned lots of times and i think

[0:45:53] Voice 8: it's i don't think it's something we resolve quickly like i think it needs to be part of the

[0:45:56] Voice 8: ongoing discussion as we look at various other things that are going to come up um one comment

[0:46:02] Voice 8: when I have you know for me it's I know that it's been brought up before sometimes as far as like

[0:46:07] Voice 8: you know we're talking about housing we're talking about housing impacts in the environment

[0:46:11] Voice 8: in the community we're talking about the affordability of housing and we want to we

[0:46:15] Voice 8: want to have less net impact on the environment so so to try and bring all these together sometimes

[0:46:19] Voice 8: affordability and building ecologically kind of compete but then there's also the benefits for

[0:46:25] Voice 8: the long term and the benefits for the community by keeping the work and resources that we're using

[0:46:30] Voice 8: within the community so there's a lot of factors to consider um one of the thoughts that sometimes

[0:46:35] Voice 8: so i guess like as a question and also just an idea that's that sometimes something like this

[0:46:40] Voice 8: some sort of a certification be be be you in a context like for example um some people worried

[0:46:48] Voice 8: about the size of houses that are that are proliferating on salt spring um and so maybe

[0:46:53] Voice 8: you know we can identify an average house size and then require the large houses that are built

[0:46:59] Voice 8: over a certain size need to adhere to a more strict standard. That's just one way of putting

[0:47:04] Voice 8: context. So it's not every single building that's being done, but that then our mansions

[0:47:12] Voice 8: have less impact and become more friendly to the community. That's just one example

[0:47:18] Voice 8: that might be context oriented. And another one is the idea of maybe

[0:47:22] Voice 8: sort of a density bonus program where if a proponent wants to build more ecologically,

[0:47:28] Voice 8: then maybe they get some extra densities to help with their little small, you know, cottage village

[0:47:36] Voice 8: or something like that. Yes, Louisa?

[0:47:41] Voice 14: Just to wrap up my item, just again, once you remind the task

[0:47:46] Voice 14: force that the project charter talks about not just housing issue, also climate change and

[0:47:53] Voice 14: sustainable design, transportation, among others. So that's why staff took on this green building

[0:48:00] Voice 14: design is to tackle other elements of the project charter. And also, this green building

[0:48:07] Voice 14: certification program might end up in the end, not feasible or, you know, for whatever reason,

[0:48:15] Voice 14: but we want to start looking into it. In addition to that, the primary goal is also to look at the

[0:48:22] Voice 14: amendment of the OCP. It will be a major amendment because of all these components. So one thing is

[0:48:29] Voice 14: to look at how to support the green building under the climate action element as well. So thank you.

[0:48:38] Voice 8: Mira?

[0:48:40] Voice 4: Yeah, I think, you know, having this conversation prior to being aligned as a group

[0:48:46] Voice 4: as to what our objective is it seems premature you know if if we were clear

[0:48:53] Voice 4: about what we were trying to accomplish then you know a lot of these debates

[0:48:57] Voice 4: would be you know resolved much more quickly and one of the things that comes

[0:49:04] Voice 4: up for me is we assume a particular contractual structure when we think

[0:49:10] Voice 4: about development and you know other parts of the world there are different

[0:49:14] Voice 4: contractual structures that eliminate some of the problems that are being

[0:49:19] Voice 4: talked about here but there's no point even bringing them up if if it just

[0:49:25] Voice 4: becomes another point of

[0:49:25] Voice 4: contention that could be resolved early in lining up

[0:49:30] Voice 4: it's one final thing with regards to green build all the green building

[0:49:38] Voice 4: programs have the same difficulty whether it's lead or green build or

[0:49:43] Voice 4: living building challenges they set up something that's enforceable and

[0:49:48] Voice 1: then they get all the

[0:49:49] Voice 4: people with the workarounds and it program gets bigger and bigger to deal with all the

[0:49:56] Voice 4: workaround people and you know that's certainly a mechanic that can be um minimize it

[0:50:03] Voice 4: or avoid it

[0:50:05] Voice 4: if we were to you know set about that at the outset thank

[0:50:11] Voice 8: you great great comments uh are

[0:50:14] Voice 8: Are there any other final comments on this?

[0:50:16] Voice 8: Yeah,

[0:50:16] Voice 11: I had my hand up for a while there.

[0:50:18] Voice 8: Oh, sorry.

[0:50:19] Voice 8: Yeah,

[0:50:20] Voice 11: thank you, everybody.

[0:50:21] Voice 11: And again, I know we got to move along.

[0:50:23] Voice 11: I share, well, pretty much with everyone,

[0:50:28] Voice 11: and the people's contributions come immediately to mind.

[0:50:31] Voice 11: Daniel and Najma, yeah, and Luis says so very clearly,

[0:50:38] Voice 11: I support green building, but as we know,

[0:50:41] Voice 11: people can present anything as being green and this seems to be something that is a kind of a

[0:50:50] Voice 11: gatekeeper that allows certain people to get an advantage in the market and I don't support that.

[0:50:56] Voice 11: There's so many mechanisms already that exist to exclude access to certifications and that

[0:51:04] Voice 11: raise the price of services for people without guaranteeing quality of service. So I see all

[0:51:09] Voice 11: all over the island doing renovations as well that somebody might be a ticketed electrician

[0:51:15] Voice 11: or a plumber but the work they did was not safe it wasn't up to code um and um so i would hate to

[0:51:22] Voice 11: see green building become as you say ronan um at odds with affordability whereas again if we look

[0:51:30] Voice 11: at the tiny home movement there's an example where a lot of people are using green principles

[0:51:35] Voice 11: principles voluntarily, and it goes hand in hand with affordability. So I would be very cautious

[0:51:41] Voice 11: with working with any association that gives, you know, a privilege of higher wages or easier

[0:51:49] Voice 11: access to clients for certain contractors.

[0:51:54] Voice 8: Thank you. Great comments. I thought I saw

[0:51:58] Voice 8: someone else flashing. Was that Bryce? Did you flash your hand?

[0:52:01] Voice 8: I'm

[0:52:01] Voice 3: good it's been covered okay

[0:52:02] Voice 8: I think there's been lots of really great

[0:52:06] Voice 8: feedback on this I just a final comment for me is just maybe I think this the

[0:52:11] Voice 8: idea of you know incentives or guidelines to support green building is

[0:52:16] Voice 8: a really good thing that we need to consider consider as we go along but we

[0:52:20] Voice 8: don't jump the gun like Mira brought up you know this needs to align with our

[0:52:24] Voice 8: objectives which is which we're going to be talking about a little bit later on

[0:52:26] Voice 8: agenda. So can we please keep this in mind and keep studying more about this and keep this as

[0:52:33] Voice 8: part of our discussion as we go through our meetings?

[0:52:38] Voice 14: That's exactly what I was going to

[0:52:39] Voice 14: offer. We're going to do a bit more research on that and maybe it's not so much of promoting any

[0:52:46] Voice 14: particular certification program. Maybe it's just focused on the policy objectives in the OCP.

[0:52:53] Voice 14: people. Thank you. I appreciate the comments.

[0:52:58] Voice 8: Okay. Thank you. So, um, um, a survey in progress.

[0:53:05] Voice 14: Okay. This is, it's going to be really brief on this one. Um, what we're trying to do is put a

[0:53:12] Voice 14: survey out there. Uh, it's part of the effort of implementing a long child public engagement

[0:53:18] Voice 14: program. Uh, so we were thinking about using a survey and we know that Gabriela spent extensive

[0:53:26] Voice 14: effort they actually consulted a consultants to do the work and the

[0:53:34] Voice 14: survey looks great and apparently it was a very successful program and the intent

[0:53:39] Voice 14: is to have that program to establish kind of like a model and enable other

[0:53:47] Voice 14: LTC office to utilize the survey so we started working with the survey

[0:53:54] Voice 14: questions that was developed for gabriela run into a couple of problems one is it has to go

[0:54:00] Voice 14: through a lot of their process to get their i guess blessing to use their questions and once

[0:54:08] Voice 14: we got into it we realized the questions that they develop may not suit salt salt spring as much

[0:54:14] Voice 14: One very fundamental factor is that the housing, at least that's what was explained to me by the Northern team, is that the commission is very focused on affordable housing.

[0:54:33] Voice 14: So the survey, the question is very much focused on just that.

[0:54:38] Voice 14: Our project charter is very broad, so we need to include other questions.

[0:54:43] Voice 14: and also some of the questions are more Gabriela specific.

[0:54:47] Voice 14: So with that being said, this is just a heads up

[0:54:50] Voice 14: that we started working on a survey.

[0:54:52] Voice 14: We kind of got stuck a little

[0:54:54] Voice 14: and now we think we might need additional resources

[0:54:59] Voice 14: and we try to figure it out.

[0:55:01] Voice 14: But we are working on a survey.

[0:55:02] Voice 14: Hopefully we can maybe go through two stages.

[0:55:06] Voice 14: One is just kick it out to get community input

[0:55:09] Voice 14: and then we will have a second phase of survey.

[0:55:13] Voice 14: So that's just kind of for your information,

[0:55:15] Voice 14: what's going on in the background.

[0:55:19] Voice 8: Okay, thank you, Louisa.

[0:55:20] Voice 8: Are you looking for feedback on that now?

[0:55:23] Voice 14: This is just for your information only

[0:55:25] Voice 14: because we

[0:55:25] Voice 14: don't really have anything specific

[0:55:27] Voice 14: to offer at this point,

[0:55:28] Voice 14: but we are working on the public information.

[0:55:30] Voice 8: When you have a more completed survey,

[0:55:32] Voice 8: will you present it to us for feedback?

[0:55:34] Voice 14: We're going to

[0:55:34] Voice 8: ask

[0:55:35] Voice 14: you to redline it and comment

[0:55:37] Voice 14: and edit it to death.

[0:55:39] Voice 8: Okay, excellent.

[0:55:42] Voice 8: Okay, so thank you very much.

[0:55:45] Voice 8: Thank you.

[0:55:46] Voice 8: So moving on to, I don't know how you'd call it, item three and its various points.

[0:55:54] Voice 8: So subject 3.1 is, was communication a constraint or maybe more broadly questions or issues about communication?

[0:56:04] Voice 8: Yes, Louisa?

[0:56:05] Voice 8: I

[0:56:06] Voice 14: just want to comment on this before you open the discussion.

[0:56:10] Voice 14: Just for your information, we are working in bringing our legal advisor to, at the next meeting, hopefully, to kind of talk about the constraint.

[0:56:22] Voice 14: I know with another task force, they too want more meetings, but the commission has a set rule just governed by the local government act and the community charter.

[0:56:34] Voice 14: The information that I just sent it to you guys a few days earlier, and I cannot really, I'm not in a position to keep defending the legislation.

[0:56:45] Voice 14: So we want the lawyer to come in, perhaps just explain why there is a very structured way of having the meeting and why there's concern of outside the structure and maybe even answer questions and maybe the lawyer can have more flexibility or ideas that I don't have.

[0:57:07] Voice 14: So I just want to let you know that I understand that it's pretty restrictive and can be frustrating.

[0:57:12] Voice 14: trading and so hopefully he will be here or she will be here next next month thank

[0:57:20] Voice 8: you um so does

[0:57:22] Voice 8: anyone have any comments on this uh item uh bryce um

[0:57:26] Voice 3: i agree with yvonne it's it's much much easier

[0:57:29] Voice 3: in a in a format where you can see each other and talk directly to each other to

[0:57:33] Voice 3: be productive and get things done um i would offer my 8 000 square foot barn um there's lots of space

[0:57:41] Voice 3: to spread out. I got tables and chairs. It's a wonderful place to meet for our next meeting if

[0:57:48] Voice 3: we can achieve that. And then that way we can sit around tables properly distanced and maybe become

[0:57:54] Voice 3: more efficient. Louisa?

[0:57:58] Voice 14: I'm sorry. My understanding is that under the safety rule because of the

[0:58:06] Voice 14: pandemic. I'm not sure if we can have that until October. That's what I was told last time.

[0:58:16] Voice 8: Go ahead Bryce.

[0:58:18] Voice 3: We're hosting the graduation class on June 29th and they're allowed to come

[0:58:24] Voice 3: into the barn in groups of 50. So we certainly wouldn't be anywhere near that level.

[0:58:30] Voice 8: That was

[0:58:32] Voice 8: my understanding from reading the recent rules is that groups of up to 50 can meet as long as

[0:58:36] Voice 8: or socially distanced?

[0:58:39] Voice 3: It's

[0:58:39] Voice 8: just an offer.

[0:58:40] Voice 3: I leave it up to everybody else.

[0:58:42] Voice 8: Is it something that we can explore?

[0:58:45] Voice 8: Do other people feel like that would be a good thing to have happen?

[0:58:50] Voice 1: Absolutely.

[0:58:51] Voice 1: Yeah, I think that we would do a lot better together

[0:58:54] Voice 1: if we can pull that off.

[0:58:56] Voice 1: And yes.

[0:58:59] Voice 8: Mike, can I see your hands up?

[0:59:02] Voice 11: Yeah, I agree.

[0:59:04] Voice 8: Okay.

[0:59:05] Voice 8: Yvonne, I saw your hand come up.

[0:59:07] Voice 12: I agree.

[0:59:10] Voice 8: is this something that we need the how does this work louise is this something that we need to move

[0:59:15] Voice 8: to ask for this or

[0:59:16] Voice 14: there are some problem with that um if you don't mind i can bring it back

[0:59:22] Voice 14: the next meeting when the legal advisor is here also explain why having a especially as a private

[0:59:30] Voice 14: location uh because there's open meeting law and we have to have all the technology uh and all the

[0:59:38] Voice 14: the staff there are a lot of us and the mini ticker they all have to be at that location

[0:59:44] Voice 14: so that is the reason why I said it's not available until October because we're looking

[0:59:49] Voice 14: at our boardroom and it could not house I more than I don't remember how many people

[0:59:56] Voice 14: so if you guys can just be patient and just

[1:00:00] Voice 14: way a bit until we get all the green light you know just make sure we check with everybody okay

[1:00:09] Voice 8: um thank you i

[1:00:11] Voice 14: would get back to you on the appropriateness of uh where to hold the meeting

[1:00:18] Voice 14: i think because we also have to advertise the location of the meeting as well

[1:00:25] Voice 8: james i see your hand coming up yeah i

[1:00:26] Voice 9: just wanted to to uh assert again that i've booked

[1:00:30] Voice 9: this room here in the library this large room for every third Thursday we have it as much as I enjoy

[1:00:37] Voice 9: a barn because I raised horses all my life I'd love to go to the barn at Bryce's place but this

[1:00:42] Voice 9: is available to us here so if perhaps Louisa can explore that with the library it's the perfect

[1:00:48] Voice 9: location here very central everybody's close to it excellent

[1:00:53] Voice 8: thank you are there any other Bryce

[1:00:57] Voice 8: I'll

[1:00:58] Voice 3: just run and I just you've seen the barn so you know it's it's kind of meeting room like it's

[1:01:03] Voice 3: it's you know no animals have ever been in it or anything like that so it is a nice clean space.

[1:01:09] Voice 3: I

[1:01:09] Voice 9: missed us I missed the smell of hay Bryce I was hoping there'd be yeah well

[1:01:13] Voice 3: there's no hay in there

[1:01:14] Voice 3: so I

[1:01:16] Voice 14: could be wrong sorry chair my understanding is it has to be a public facility but I would

[1:01:22] Voice 14: double check that as well

[1:01:23] Voice 8: okay maybe it sounds like it would be great to look into to that it

[1:01:28] Voice 8: seems like everyone's in favor of trying to meet in person as soon as possible yeah

[1:01:31] Voice 12: absolutely

[1:01:32] Voice 12: yeah absolutely are

[1:01:34] Voice 8: there any other um comments about communication um

[1:01:42] Voice 14: sorry i just saw rob

[1:01:45] Voice 14: said he could jump in make a comment on that oh

[1:01:48] Voice 8: yes rob rob

[1:01:53] Voice 14: hello

[1:01:55] Voice 2: uh just note that when you do

[1:01:58] Voice 2: do review the government restart plans.

[1:02:01] Voice 2: There's a separate section for offices and workplaces.

[1:02:04] Voice 2: And we're in step two,

[1:02:07] Voice 2: which says continued return to the workplace,

[1:02:09] Voice 2: small in-person meetings allowed.

[1:02:11] Voice 2: And until July 1st,

[1:02:14] Voice 2: seminars and bigger meetings seem to be allowed,

[1:02:17] Voice 2: but that's not clear.

[1:02:18] Voice 2: And so when we receive more information,

[1:02:21] Voice 2: and I would say the legal advice of the meeting in July,

[1:02:25] Voice 2: we'll be able to provide a better timeline

[1:02:28] Voice 2: line because of the restart plan. We do have facilities that we often rent and use that are

[1:02:34] Voice 2: public facilities, and we'll be working to have the video services available at those facilities.

[1:02:42] Voice 2: We do want to get all our meetings, such as the LTC and

[1:02:49] Voice 2: task force and APCs back running in person, but we're looking at advice on July 1st as to how to

[1:02:57] Voice 2: do that. Thanks. Thank you, Rob. I'm

[1:03:02] Voice 14: not sure if we talk about, for those who cannot attend,

[1:03:10] Voice 14: whether we have the capability for those to go on Zoom. So that's another technology question

[1:03:16] Voice 14: that we need to look at.

[1:03:19] Voice 8: Okay. Does Rob need to answer that or that's more of a comment?

[1:03:24] Voice 14: I was going to ask him, but I will look into it.

[1:03:27] Voice 2: I think the best thing to say is that the

[1:03:30] Voice 2: organizations working to bring things up to speed to meet this new uh you know we've introduced

[1:03:35] Voice 2: technology that we see so many people appreciating and now we have to take it out of being 100

[1:03:41] Voice 2: technology and making it some in person and some some technology without excluding people

[1:03:49] Voice 2: so i would say at the july meeting we'll have we'll definitely have more information from

[1:03:54] Voice 2: from the trust, the main office in Victoria,

[1:03:58] Voice 2: who guides us on these technology issues.

[1:04:03] Voice 8: Yeah.

[1:04:04] Voice 8: Does anyone else have any comments about communication issues?

[1:04:10] Voice 8: I have one comment that I wanted to bring up that I'm not sure,

[1:04:15] Voice 8: but I tried to understand the rules that you sent, Louisa.

[1:04:20] Voice 8: But someone who's familiar with public process,

[1:04:25] Voice 8: I mentioned that we couldn't have group email discussions

[1:04:27] Voice 8: And she found that shocking. She didn't know where the rule for that actually came from. She said there's a difference between having an email discussion for the purpose of sharing information or background information and working on agenda items like motion items or things that would pertain to the public process.

[1:04:54] Voice 8: So I just wanted to ask if there is something, like I didn't see in anything that I read that was there, and maybe this is a question for the lawyer next time, but it didn't seem like there was anything that specifically stopped us from sharing general information.

[1:05:10] Voice 8: Do you know anything more about that?

[1:05:12] Voice 8: I

[1:05:13] Voice 14: think you probably should ask the lawyer, because there is a little bit of a discretion between a project advisory commission and the Quartside Judicial Planning Commission and the Advisory Planning Commission.

[1:05:29] Voice 14: So I'm not sure which legislation will be best to apply.

[1:05:34] Voice 14: I'm not too familiar with the law in BC, so that's why I think it will be good to have the legal advisor here.

[1:05:43] Yeah.

[1:05:45] Voice 8: So I had another comment for the group as far as us, you know, there's this constraint,

[1:05:50] Voice 8: we only have a couple hours once a month, officially. But there is a way that we can

[1:05:55] Voice 8: share some information with each other ahead of each meeting. I'm sorry, Louisa?

[1:06:02] Voice 14: Oh, I think I started to understand what you're saying. If you have information you want to share

[1:06:07] Voice 14: with the group prior to the meeting you email to us to me or rob that way we can send it as an

[1:06:15] Voice 14: attachment because they need to be posted online the public can see what's being distributed

[1:06:20] Voice 14: so you just send it to the office it will be fine we can distribute the information

[1:06:26] Voice 8: almost i was it was just it was a comment but but yeah so you mean about as far as like um

[1:06:31] Voice 8: if someone had a report they wanted to share for example then it would become

[1:06:34] Voice 14: part of the

[1:06:34] Voice 14: agenda

[1:06:34] Voice 8: package yeah

[1:06:36] Voice 14: you can send it to me and i will put it for the next meeting and i i think

[1:06:42] Voice 14: it's okay i'll double check it if i feel it's okay i can send it prior to the agenda packets ready

[1:06:49] Voice 14: because sometimes people may share really large reports and it's not fair to you know give you

[1:06:56] Voice 14: guys not enough time to read so i will look into that and see can i send any interim correspondence

[1:07:03] Voice 14: respondents around. Because the other thing is, I even want to seek input from you guys that I

[1:07:10] Voice 14: don't want to just be right on specific dates that you receive it. So I will check into that,

[1:07:17] Voice 14: but I think it should be okay.

[1:07:19] Voice 8: That would be excellent. And if I see your hand up,

[1:07:23] Voice 8: I just wanted to finish my comment, which wasn't quite complete. And that's just to invite everyone

[1:07:28] Voice 8: one to do like what i did i wrote a two-page letter with some ideas we we can all do that

[1:07:34] Voice 8: maybe we can agree that it's you know a one or two page if some point form thoughts that we have

[1:07:40] Voice 8: that we'd like to share with each other and that gives us all a chance to to hear what people are

[1:07:44] Voice 8: thinking about what their comments are the things are interesting you know the ideas that are

[1:07:49] Voice 8: important to you that allows us to to absorb them receive them uh maybe point form with with some

[1:07:54] Voice 8: some numbers that if we want to refer to them we can refer to you know mirrors point two from his

[1:07:59] Voice 8: letter you know it might help our discussions go a little bit faster in a way if we can share some

[1:08:05] Voice 8: of our ideas ahead of time on in a written form if we agree to keep it you know concise enough

[1:08:11] Voice 8: you know we say maybe maybe three pages maximum how is that okay with everyone or interesting

[1:08:18] Voice 8: you don't feel obliged but in case someone has some some some something that they'd just like

[1:08:22] Voice 8: like to share. Neshma, you had a...

[1:08:25] Voice 1: Yeah, I mean, just to even continue on from that stream, I think

[1:08:30] Voice 1: being able to share something with everyone midway, because it's two hours. It's just like,

[1:08:37] Voice 1: how are we really, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like there's so many ideas and I want to

[1:08:42] Voice 1: know what everyone's thinking. So if there's a way for me to have access to your ideas and your

[1:08:49] Voice 1: inspirations in the meantime when we all have time to kind of reflect and look over that

[1:08:53] Voice 1: but then again it's kind of like we're sending it all into the vacuum and then we're not even

[1:08:56] Voice 1: getting any kind of like feedback because then that's not allowed so yeah the communication

[1:09:00] Voice 1: thing i think talking to the lawyer is going to be uh good to you know to figure those details

[1:09:07] Voice 1: out i guess um right you know i'm i'm definitely down with that like one to two pages probably

[1:09:16] Voice 1: maybe we should cap it at that or point form or something just because then think about it it's

[1:09:20] Voice 1: like we're a dozen of us so then that'll be like a dozen times three so then that's like 36 pages

[1:09:25] Voice 1: of concepts and ideas right so sure

[1:09:29] Voice 8: if everyone was to do it but that yeah so so that's what I

[1:09:33] Voice 8: mean you know if we can keep to like one or two pages I mean sometimes it'd be a paragraph you

[1:09:37] Voice 8: know that someone might like to sort of say you know to everyone great um does anyone else have

[1:09:44] Voice 8: have any comments on this topic? Yvonne?

[1:09:48] Voice 12: Yes, I feel exactly the same. I feel it would be nice,

[1:09:53] Voice 12: we're all separate entities with different ideas. And I feel I'm a people person. So I'm much more

[1:10:00] Voice 12: comfortable getting feeling that I sort of know somebody, their ideas and thoughts. And I'm not

[1:10:06] Voice 12: suggesting that we can all get together and discuss out of context. But I think it would be

[1:10:12] Voice 12: nice that we could have conversations with each other even maybe on a one-to-one so we get to

[1:10:18] Voice 12: know each other I mean James Black you know I don't know what what James is I don't know what

[1:10:23] Voice 12: he does or what he's done in his life it would be I'm not asking to know anything personal but you

[1:10:30] Voice 12: know what I mean how we know something about like somebody was a builder or somebody's in land

[1:10:35] Voice 12: development or someone else has an interest in you know how people interact with each other

[1:10:41] Voice 12: it would be just nice to have that sort of connection with people does anyone agree with me

[1:10:46] Voice 12: yeah

[1:10:47] Voice 9: how about some tea and scones I make the scones and bring the jam you can give me the

[1:10:52] Voice 9: invitation and we'll sit down one-on-one and we'll get to understand one another a little bit I think

[1:10:57] Voice 9: it's a great idea you know

[1:10:58] Voice 1: I mentioned that

[1:10:59] Voice 9: to Rona in the beginning I think it's too long

[1:11:01] Voice 9: one month in not seeing everybody for one month at a time and if there's a chance for some sort

[1:11:06] Voice 9: sort of in the formal gathering where we're not developing policy but we're just getting to know

[1:11:11] Voice 9: one another a little bit

[1:11:12] Voice 12: precisely that's exactly

[1:11:13] Voice 12: what that's what i'm trying to suggest and i don't

[1:11:16] Voice 9: want

[1:11:16] Voice 12: to do anything outside the rules because that isn't what i do but i think getting to know each

[1:11:22] Voice 12: other what makes each other tick is really important then we can work much more effectively

[1:11:26] Voice 12: as a group together rather than you know not knowing where this person is coming from or

[1:11:32] Voice 12: not knowing what they're thinking um i just think it's it just creates a better environment

[1:11:38] Voice 12: for understanding each other and then making decisions see

[1:11:42] Voice 9: right now ronan i have to admit

[1:11:44] Voice 9: i feel constrained by uh what's been done in the past or uh policy or anything like that i'd like

[1:11:51] Voice 9: to not feel so constrained about ideas and i i like uh ideas and i'd like to have a chance to

[1:11:57] Voice 9: to talk to the group with ideas.

[1:12:00] Voice 8: Okay, I see Mir has his hand up.

[1:12:02] Voice 8: I just wanted to respond quickly to,

[1:12:04] Voice 8: we will have time to talk about ideas in this forum

[1:12:08] Voice 8: from what I understand.

[1:12:09] Voice 8: We're just, this is all very,

[1:12:10] Voice 8: I think this project is just getting started.

[1:12:12] Voice 8: So we're all finding our footing

[1:12:14] Voice 8: and we just need to be patient with the process a little bit

[1:12:17] Voice 8: and find out where it is.

[1:12:19] Voice 8: Just

[1:12:19] Voice 4: have a quick question.

[1:12:20] Voice 8: Sure.

[1:12:21] Voice 4: What's the maximum group size?

[1:12:24] Voice 8: Outside of the, I think quorum is six.

[1:12:27] Voice 8: so five people or less um doesn't mean quorum that was the point i was about to make and just

[1:12:32] Voice 8: clarify with louisa for everyone's understanding especially as we're getting to know each other

[1:12:37] Voice 8: from what i understand is you know there's there's i don't think there's anything illegal

[1:12:41] Voice 8: about getting together in small groups to get to know each other over tea and scones so long as

[1:12:46] Voice 8: we're not meeting quorum and we're not making decisions about how the product is going you know

[1:12:51] Voice 8: i think it's important um and and i i honestly intended to reach out to everyone one-on-one

[1:12:57] Voice 8: just to just say hello and get to know everyone I haven't had a chance yet but I would encourage

[1:13:00] Voice 8: us all to do that informally just try to get to know each other's people if that's okay Elisa

[1:13:07] Voice 14: as long as you don't form a subcommittee and you don't meet the same three or four individuals

[1:13:15] Voice 14: consistently regularly I mean at the beginning you try to get to know each other you don't have

[1:13:20] Voice 14: a quorum and if you inadvertently talk about the housing project just disclose it the next time

[1:13:27] Voice 14: when you're at the meeting yeah

[1:13:31] Voice 5: okay can i make a point here yes i never

[1:13:34] Voice 5: thought i would be

[1:13:35] Voice 5: sympathizing with one of our local trust planners but i think we should really realize that as much

[1:13:42] Voice 5: as i we're all concerned with output rather than process there are certain rules and regulations

[1:13:48] Voice 5: that have to be followed and and certain other matters that have to be clarified

[1:13:54] Voice 5: and I think in terms of this meeting at this time, given the fact that the lawyer will be coming at the next one,

[1:14:02] Voice 5: we may have reached that point in terms of discussing this matter.

[1:14:08] Voice 8: Right. So you're suggesting we're moving on, Stanley?

[1:14:12] Voice 8: Yes.

[1:14:13] Voice 8: Okay. Luisa, did you have a comment to that?

[1:14:15] Voice 14: Yeah. Before we moved on, I would like to ask anyone who has any concerns that you want to ask the lawyer,

[1:14:22] Voice 14: because he he or she the company is pretty expensive and we want to make sure we utilize

[1:14:29] Voice 14: the time more efficiently so if you have a list of questions you can email to me you don't have

[1:14:35] Voice 14: to email copy everybody but it's your choice as long as you don't reply to everybody and start

[1:14:40] Voice 14: having discussions all the rules i'm sorry mike

[1:14:45] Voice 8: can i see that you have your hand up you have a

[1:14:47] Voice 8: final comment yeah

[1:14:49] Voice 11: thanks um so uh i agree with the one max one or two pager um i am interested

[1:14:56] Voice 11: to get to know people in and i think you know this format some of us are more comfortable speaking up

[1:15:01] Voice 11: and um i'm interested to hear about the people that i that aren't speaking as much in this

[1:15:06] Voice 11: environment so perhaps having a written option where people can reflect on their thoughts um

[1:15:11] Voice 11: would be great and i have i mean i'm interested to get to know everyone i have some concerns about

[1:15:17] Voice 11: out uh in-person meetings outside of this um i read the rules on that and and the only thing

[1:15:25] Voice 11: that i could imagine is something like where we have an open meeting you know that is open to

[1:15:30] Voice 11: everyone and the first five people who sign up for it go so we have some way and and that there's

[1:15:36] Voice 11: some way to you know so it's not like okay wednesday at three you know three o'clock the

[1:15:41] Voice 11: invitation opens and it's always the same people who are getting online first there has to be some

[1:15:44] Voice 11: way of randomizing the spots so that it does you know so that it doesn't there's basically no

[1:15:50] Voice 11: cliques or anything like that not that anyone has that kind of intention but it does happen

[1:15:53] Voice 11: in groups so if we don't have a randomized mechanism i would actually rather stick to

[1:16:00] Voice 11: the letter of the law of what we have to have to work with and not have a group consistent

[1:16:04] Voice 11: group meetings outside of this process but certainly written communication that everyone

[1:16:08] Voice 11: everyone has equal access to.

[1:16:11] Voice 8: Thanks, just to clarify, I think the suggestion was not regular meetings outside of this process.

[1:16:19] Voice 8: It was more an invitation to randomly allow people, suggest that people get to know each

[1:16:24] Voice 8: other a little bit informally outside of the regular process of the meetings.

[1:16:30] Voice 8: So just to be clear, the suggestion was not for a regular extra meeting.

[1:16:37] Voice 8: Are there any other comments? Okay, so shall we move on to the next point? 3.1a. Mir, maybe you could speak to this, learning from past projects or past studies.

[1:17:01] Voice 4: yeah there's I don't know how many studies there have been since 2003 but quite a few

[1:17:06] Voice 4: and not a lot of results and I just don't want to repeat the same mistake with this group

[1:17:17] Voice 4: you know my involvement in this group is contingent on that we produce something that

[1:17:26] Voice 4: is of value and that makes a difference in this community I'm not interested in spending two years

[1:17:33] Voice 4: to produce a report that gets shelved and i don't i doubt that anybody in this group

[1:17:37] Voice 4: has that interest so i think it'd be important to clarify um and i i think that

[1:17:47] Voice 4: um and perhaps the hounds trust you know having commissioned this group would also have the same

[1:17:55] Voice 4: interest in not spending a lot of trust time and money and so that perhaps they

[1:18:04] Voice 4: could enlighten us as to how to be effective and avoid the pitfalls of the

[1:18:09] Voice 4: past I

[1:18:12] Voice 8: think it's an excellent point I've got a comment about this from

[1:18:17] Voice 8: having read a number of most of the reports that have been produced by the

[1:18:21] Voice 8: Trust. And to me, what it seems like is there's been many, many, many great ideas about how the

[1:18:30] Voice 8: Islands Trust within its power of rezoning and land use planning can help, you know, the objectives

[1:18:41] Voice 8: of this project, which we're going to find later a little bit more, but, you know, a sustainable

[1:18:46] Voice 8: sustainable community within the limits of a healthy environment.

[1:18:53] Voice 8: And it seems to me that at each time the question isn't so much the ideas but it's about implementation.

[1:19:01] Voice 8: So I just wanted to raise that as a key word about this project and maybe we could ask

[1:19:08] Voice 8: staff maybe next meeting to maybe comment on you know how we can ensure that this project is going

[1:19:18] Voice 8: to be implemented to its highest order to achieve our objectives which we're going to work you know

[1:19:23] Voice 8: discuss in the next point uh

[1:19:28] Voice 14: i actually can give some idea right now uh local planning services is

[1:19:34] Voice 14: really just a planning department i think that is the reason that a lot of the great ideas cannot be

[1:19:42] Voice 14: implemented because it's not within the purview uh and so local trust committee has limited uh

[1:19:48] Voice 14: resources and you know they cannot tell crd how to do it but we can partner with it and collaborate

[1:19:56] Voice 14: with it and that's why we formed this technical working group is to make sure they uh you know

[1:20:01] Voice 14: I would say advise us early in the process before we even put anything down in place.

[1:20:10] Voice 14: One thing is, and that's why the project charter is designed the way it is, if we amend the

[1:20:16] Voice 14: OCP, which is a legal instrument for us, so it's not something that just sits on the shelf,

[1:20:22] Voice 14: and that's why we also propose potentially look at land use bylaw.

[1:20:26] Voice 14: Again, it's regulatory within our purview, and we can implement it.

[1:20:30] Voice 14: And we look at pilot projects and incentives. So those are the tools within our ability. There are a lot of things. I'm not saying, for example, some of the things require CRD. I'm not saying we don't do it, but we can make sure that, like you said, it's the implementation in the policy. How do we bring that partnership together to achieve that goal?

[1:20:56] Voice 8: Yeah, just to speak to that point. So sorry, Yvonne. So the reports that I've read, there's

[1:21:04] Voice 8: about 15 of them. They were summarized by 2019 table. It's a four-page table that summarizes

[1:21:11] Voice 8: all the tools offered, available to the Islands Trust Planning Department that Justine Starks

[1:21:16] Voice 8: wrote in 2019. I've shared that with a group. It's one of our resources. It's full of tools.

[1:21:23] Voice 8: so there's a lot of tools available to the the ltc um part of the implementing is partly political

[1:21:29] Voice 8: you know but it's it it's i think it's important for us all to understand that there are tools

[1:21:34] Voice 8: that are available and if we but we need to be able to look at the past and go since 2003 there's

[1:21:39] Voice 8: been all there's been many things available to the ltc but not very much has been implemented

[1:21:44] Voice 8: and our housing problem um and the impact of of our planning you know our planning right now of

[1:21:52] Voice 8: of you know large acreages with large houses that with no limit to clearing and massive impact per

[1:21:58] Voice 8: dwelling in it is is actually causing a lot of destruction to our environment so um you know

[1:22:05] Voice 8: what why why aren't things are being implemented more uh more deeply i think that's one of the

[1:22:11] Voice 8: questions that we need to embrace as throughout this whole process how do we make how do we make

[1:22:16] Voice 8: this you know how to make the moves more impactful for the long term whereas what we've seen what

[1:22:22] Voice 8: What I've seen, it seems to me, my opinion,

[1:22:24] Voice 8: is that the last 20 years,

[1:22:25] Voice 8: the steps that have been taken by the LTC

[1:22:27] Voice 8: have been incremental and have fallen short.

[1:22:30] Voice 8: And so that's, I feel like,

[1:22:32] Voice 8: the mistake that we need to avoid repeating in the past

[1:22:34] Voice 8: and to be willing to implement a broad, long-term vision

[1:22:38] Voice 8: that will have more impact.

[1:22:42] Voice 8: I'm sorry, someone else raised their hand.

[1:22:45] Voice 5: Okay, well, my comments are related to the next part

[1:22:48] Voice 5: in terms of, with the same objective in mind,

[1:22:51] Voice 5: analyzing a number of past projects some of which were completed though in much longer timelines

[1:22:57] Voice 5: than expected and some of which which bit the dust like dragonfly or at least up to now has

[1:23:03] Voice 5: dragonfly commons whose problems i think are a studying well bureaucratic nightmare i'm not

[1:23:12] Voice 5: blaming anyone or any one organization at this time but running post-mortems or analyses i could

[1:23:21] Voice 5: that might be quite helpful in deciding what OCP plans

[1:23:28] Voice 5: or what bylaws need to be changed.

[1:23:31] Voice 5: And with all due respect, the official community plan

[1:23:34] Voice 5: is a means to an end, not an end in itself.

[1:23:38] Voice 5: And this is something we have to keep in mind.

[1:23:41] Voice 5: And we all have approaches in which we enter this one.

[1:23:47] Voice 5: And mine is that sustainability is a triple focus thing with the environment, the economy, and the people.

[1:23:57] Voice 5: Others may prioritize one or the other, if prioritize is the right word.

[1:24:03] Voice 5: But I think that's why there's much to be learned by somehow, and I don't know how this group does it,

[1:24:13] Voice 5: wanted to bring in perhaps somebody who's been involved in dragonfly commons or some of the

[1:24:18] Voice 5: other projects to share views with the group or there might have been some written analysis

[1:24:24] Voice 5: somewhere which i'm not a party but just as there was a vcd recommendation that you

[1:24:30] Voice 5: you discovered which i was unaware

[1:24:33] Voice 5: where nothing thank

[1:24:35] Voice 8: you um i saw yvonne and then and then ajma yes

[1:24:41] Voice 12: what i'd like to say is i think

[1:24:44] Voice 12: we've all enthusiastic i think we're a bunch of like to think intelligent people that have the

[1:24:51] Voice 12: the heart of sorting in we want to make this a better place to live in and we want to make more

[1:24:58] Voice 12: housing and I feel with our ideas as we come together I'd like to feel that we're really

[1:25:04] Voice 12: going to make a difference and it would be such a shame if we come up with all these great ideas

[1:25:09] Voice 12: that never go anywhere so I think is there any way of Ireland's Trust working more closely with

[1:25:16] Voice 12: the CRD so that we can actually put into practice some of these ideas that we're discussing because

[1:25:22] Voice 12: Because the ideas themselves are only as good as the person that makes them happen.

[1:25:27] Voice 12: And so I feel we all are probably feeling this.

[1:25:31] Voice 12: I'm listening to the comments and we're all saying we're coming up with really good ideas and we're, you know, putting good ideas forward.

[1:25:39] Voice 12: But unless they actually happen, unless we can make them materialize, we don't want this to fall flat on its face.

[1:25:46] Voice 12: So is there any way of Ireland's trust working more closely with CRD so that we can actually make these ideas actually become situations that will improve the island?

[1:26:00] Voice 8: Louisa, do you have a response to that comment?

[1:26:03] Voice 14: It certainly can be something that a task force can recommend that to the LTC, because I think it's a good idea rather than just Salisbury Island LTC.

[1:26:16] Voice 14: see, you were talking about Islands Trust, the Trust Council to

[1:26:20] Voice 14: mark CRD's partnership. Yes, could the Islands

[1:26:25] Voice 12: Trust work more closely with CRD to implement

[1:26:28] Voice 12: the ideas that we're coming up with to make them actually work

[1:26:32] Voice 12: as practical measures? In other

[1:26:36] Voice 12: words, the good ideas,

[1:26:36] Voice 12: let's make them happen instead of them just being good ideas and

[1:26:40] Voice 12: fading away maybe.

[1:26:42] Voice 8: So I just wanted to mention that in the background

[1:26:45] Voice 8: of this whole project was the report that the Housing Working Group wrote and it had some

[1:26:51] Voice 8: objectives. There was a first timeline and a further timeline was suggested to create some

[1:26:58] Voice 8: sort of inter-agency body, for lack of a better term, some sort of a housing authority that is,

[1:27:08] Voice 8: so far as my understanding, that was supposed to be part of the long-term

[1:27:13] Voice 8: um objective of this project and um so hopefully i think it's something that we we should keep

[1:27:24] Voice 8: remembering to to to bring up and keep as part of our objective which we're going to be also

[1:27:28] Voice 8: discussing uh here in the next point um neshma uh

[1:27:33] Voice 1: yeah okay so this is totally a whiteboard moment

[1:27:36] Voice 1: for me i feel like you know when we're looking at okay well what doesn't work then we have to

[1:27:40] Voice 1: counter that, right? So maybe, you know, in tying in exactly what Stanley said and what Yvonne said

[1:27:46] Voice 1: to bring in, okay, so bringing in somebody, maybe we don't need to because the information's there.

[1:27:51] Voice 1: We can look at Justine's report. We can look at, you know, just the different reports and actually

[1:27:57] Voice 1: carve out some time to say, okay, so this was an issue. So there was a delay here, you know,

[1:28:04] Voice 1: based on the water or what happened with the well and the water and the output and everything. So,

[1:28:10] Voice 1: So, I mean, I'm just throwing the ideas out, but then we're like, OK, well, how do we change that?

[1:28:14] Voice 1: So how did where was the disconnect between the Islands Trust and the CRD?

[1:28:17] Voice 1: So if there was a housing authority, what would be their job? How would they be there to create the solution?

[1:28:23] Voice 1: So without having like a concrete list of items at this point, you know, we don't have much to go on.

[1:28:30] Voice 1: So it feels like at this stage, I guess it would be about seeing how we would format that for a meeting in the future.

[1:28:37] Voice 1: does that make sense to to be able to

[1:28:40] Voice 1: actually create a list of points and find solutions for

[1:28:43] Voice 1: them

[1:28:43] Voice 8: i've got a

[1:28:44] Voice 8: suggestion um that you know later on we've got you know there's this really broad

[1:28:50] Voice 8: agenda item which identifying issues and possible solutions which to me actually seems like it's

[1:28:55] Voice 8: it's going to be an ongoing part of our discussion and so what i suggest is as we're as we're delving

[1:29:00] Voice 8: in and we get to know the issues that are happening that we keep this in mind and it will

[1:29:05] Voice 8: will come there'll be an example of something that we're trying to do that will that will reflect

[1:29:09] Voice 8: something that passed some of us are pretty aware of things and we might find an appropriate moment

[1:29:13] Voice 8: to invite maybe someone who's involved in a project that did that that stalled or failed

[1:29:17] Voice 8: or had issues maybe they would they could present and share some ideas so that going forward

[1:29:22] Voice 8: we can help guide so that we don't repeat those mistakes again or and we keep thinking about okay

[1:29:29] Voice 8: these are these are good ideas but how does this get implemented in the future maybe this is

[1:29:33] Voice 8: something that this housing authority needs to take on and we can sort of start building a list

[1:29:37] Voice 8: yeah

[1:29:37] Voice 1: that's that's exactly what i was gonna just just ask is there is there some way we can get a

[1:29:42] Voice 1: running list going because i think that the ideas are going to kind of come pretty organically too

[1:29:46] Voice 1: as the conversation unfolds

[1:29:48] Voice 8: that's an excellent idea does anyone else have any

[1:29:52] Voice 8: who would who would

[1:29:53] Voice 1: do the list who would who would make that happen would staff make that happen while we're doing it

[1:29:58] Voice 1: Should I?

[1:30:00] Voice 1: take a make a list?

[1:30:01] Voice 14: I was trying to look for that. I don't remember it was five pages that

[1:30:07] Voice 14: Island Trust summarized the action. That would be a good start because it's Island Trust as a whole.

[1:30:14] Voice 14: But I could not dig out that document because of our new website, all the links are broken.

[1:30:20] Voice 14: So I will try and provide that next meet at the next meeting. Just one thing I want to remind you

[1:30:28] Voice 14: that there's only half an hour left

[1:30:30] Voice 14: but not to worry

[1:30:31] Voice 14: all the items, ongoing items

[1:30:34] Voice 14: what is not covered

[1:30:35] Voice 14: I will continue to add to the next

[1:30:38] Voice 14: agenda

[1:30:40] Voice 8: I would just like to ask

[1:30:42] Voice 8: maybe all of us

[1:30:43] Voice 8: you know

[1:30:45] Voice 8: so the Justine Starks report is really great

[1:30:48] Voice 8: I can share it with you if you want Luz I have it

[1:30:49] Voice 8: so that's one thing about

[1:30:51] Voice 8: reports but this idea of maybe things that

[1:30:54] Voice 8: you know

[1:30:55] Voice 8: future housing authority

[1:30:58] Voice 8: might implement maybe it's something we could all take notes on um you know in this idea because

[1:31:03] Voice 8: we're just raising this idea now but it's um um you know i think it's going to be an ongoing like

[1:31:09] Voice 8: i said i think it's one of the longer term part of the objectives and maybe this is a good segue

[1:31:12] Voice 8: to the next point which is point 3.2 about objectives and goals um that was that was

[1:31:20] Voice 8: brought up so you know i did address this a little bit in in my in my letter hopefully

[1:31:24] Voice 8: Hopefully you got a chance to read that.

[1:31:25] Voice 8: I won't belabor it, but I wanted to ask Mira,

[1:31:28] Voice 8: maybe to me, Mira brought this point up last time.

[1:31:31] Voice 8: Mira, would you have anything to talk about

[1:31:34] Voice 8: or just sort of frame what you mean

[1:31:36] Voice 8: by identifying objectives and goals

[1:31:39] Voice 8: that can help guide this project?

[1:31:42] Voice 4: Sure, yeah.

[1:31:43] Voice 4: If the group arrives at a shared objective

[1:31:49] Voice 4: and a target so that we know where we're going

[1:31:52] Voice 4: and we can evaluate how much time we spent on each topic of discussion and we

[1:32:02] Voice 4: can you know measure the usefulness of ideas against the the goals that we

[1:32:10] Voice 4: agree on I think that's you know preliminary to do everything you know if

[1:32:17] Voice 4: you're going on a trip you're going traveling first thing you want to know

[1:32:20] Voice 4: is where you are and we take that for granted that we know where we are but it's you know if

[1:32:26] Voice 4: you don't know where you are it's pretty hard to go somewhere and then the second thing is to know

[1:32:30] Voice 4: where you're going so i think those two are key and um i think we've got some idea of where we are

[1:32:43] Voice 4: what's so you know what what is real what is our reality that

[1:32:47] Voice 4: we live in when it comes to housing

[1:32:49] Voice 4: there's lots of problems but there's you know some things that are going well

[1:32:53] Voice 4: to be able to have a clear outline or a clear idea of where we are and then also a clear idea

[1:33:01] Voice 4: of where we want to go as a group and have those conversations early rather than have them in

[1:33:07] Voice 4: behind conversations you know if we can get clear on where we're going as a group then that I think

[1:33:13] Voice 4: is going to serve us well.

[1:33:18] Voice 8: Mike Henn I see your hand up.

[1:33:20] Voice 11: Yeah just a question to to the group and

[1:33:23] Voice 11: and perhaps especially to Louisa and Ronan.

[1:33:27] Voice 11: So as part of our orientation,

[1:33:29] Voice 11: we got this capital regional district housing needs

[1:33:31] Voice 11: assessment for Salt Spring Island

[1:33:32] Voice 11: that looks to be from up to 2016.

[1:33:38] Voice 11: Situations change a little bit, no doubt,

[1:33:40] Voice 11: in four or five years.

[1:33:41] Voice 11: How much of a reference document is this going to be

[1:33:44] Voice 11: in terms of what Mayor is talking about,

[1:33:47] Voice 11: about knowing where we are?

[1:33:51] Voice 8: So I'd just like to comment on that.

[1:33:53] Voice 8: That is the latest official document that we have, and it's already out of date.

[1:34:00] Voice 8: I mean, for example, it says the average house price is $500,000, and that's unaffordable.

[1:34:05] Voice 8: Well, the average house price is now over a million dollars, and it's really unaffordable.

[1:34:09] Voice 8: So things have changed a lot.

[1:34:12] Voice 8: It's based on information from 2016, and it's the only official information that we have to go on.

[1:34:18] Voice 8: So I raised that last meeting as well.

[1:34:20] Voice 8: all this you know if that's the only data we have to go on we're in trouble of even knowing where

[1:34:25] Voice 8: we are as mirror is suggesting um but it's still what we have so we can use that format as a

[1:34:32] Voice 8: baseline um to to you know to refer to and um you know maybe it's possible to um something i was

[1:34:41] Voice 8: thinking about doing is maybe uh with some some maybe with some help with some colleagues that i

[1:34:47] Voice 8: know there that are able to do this maybe to up analyze that document sort of identify you know

[1:34:52] Voice 8: redline a little bit identify where the information is falling a little bit short so we sort of

[1:34:56] Voice 8: informally update it a little bit um but louisa maybe you've got some other comments about how

[1:35:01] Voice 8: we might be able to have a frame of reference for where we are i'm

[1:35:06] Voice 14: not at this point but one thing

[1:35:09] Voice 14: it's kind of prematurely to discuss but just so you know staff is also working in the background

[1:35:15] Voice 14: to conduct some kind of a carrying capacity analysis

[1:35:21] Voice 14: because we can't propose any policies

[1:35:25] Voice 14: without knowing whether we have water capacity

[1:35:28] Voice 14: or sewer capacity.

[1:35:30] Voice 14: So those are the things that we're working

[1:35:32] Voice 14: with the technical working group.

[1:35:35] Voice 14: And as mentioned, the technical working groups

[1:35:38] Voice 14: at this point has all agencies from the minister

[1:35:42] Voice 14: and BC Housing as well.

[1:35:45] Voice 14: So hopefully we get some idea of kind of a baseline.

[1:35:53] Voice 8: Okay.

[1:35:54] Voice 8: Does anyone else have any comments?

[1:35:59] Voice 1: I just know that even on that housing report,

[1:36:04] Voice 1: I thought, so was it released in 2019 though,

[1:36:07] Voice 1: but it's information from 2016?

[1:36:09] Voice 1: Am I confused here?

[1:36:11] Voice 1: Because that is the CRD Salt Spring Report, right,

[1:36:13] Voice 1: that we're speaking about?

[1:36:14] Voice 8: Yeah, it was 2020.

[1:36:16] Voice 1: Or 2020 it was.

[1:36:18] Voice 1: So it does have projections as well in there for a few years down the road.

[1:36:23] Voice 1: So that's also information that we could potentially use to gain a sense of where we are now.

[1:36:27] Voice 1: So we can use that.

[1:36:29] Voice 1: And we do know what the real estate market and everything is doing.

[1:36:32] Voice 1: and um but it seems like the land use and the climate climb you know are the climate issues are

[1:36:39] Voice 1: kind of like where we're impeded even more so than talking about affordability and who

[1:36:44] Voice 1: would necessarily dwell in those spaces right now we we know that there's workers that need

[1:36:49] Voice 1: houses we know but it's it's like we need to build them right so is that yeah

[1:36:56] Voice 8: um so so i've got i've

[1:36:58] Voice 8: I've got a bit of a comment about, you know,

[1:37:00] Voice 8: Louisa brought up the idea of carrying capacity.

[1:37:02] Voice 8: And so, you know, it seems what I've noticed in the work

[1:37:07] Voice 8: that I've been doing on this subject in the last few years

[1:37:09] Voice 8: is that, you know, there's this whole idea of the word density.

[1:37:14] Voice 8: And it seems like in order to have, to try to protect the environment,

[1:37:20] Voice 8: the strategy that's been used in the planning that we have

[1:37:23] Voice 8: has been to try to protect the environment by limiting

[1:37:25] Voice 8: the amount of population that is on the islands and by controlling that through a mechanism that

[1:37:31] Voice 8: they have which is how many densities we have and so that you know the definition of density

[1:37:37] Voice 8: is a dwelling if it has a kitchen it's a density it doesn't matter if it's 10,000 square feet or

[1:37:41] Voice 8: 200 square feet they're treated the same so I would hope that maybe something we could do that

[1:37:47] Voice 8: staff could do especially if you're looking at carrying capacity is to determine you know a

[1:37:52] Voice 8: different you know more subtle way of describing densities or dwellings so that we you know we

[1:37:57] Voice 8: there's also principal dwelling secondary dwelling um but there's a difference a big difference

[1:38:02] Voice 8: between you know and size you know so um in this case size matters size has impact size consumes

[1:38:09] Voice 8: resources size um affects climate and water um and uh energy to operate a building and and all

[1:38:18] Voice 8: all of these things so this is you know i think part of um should be part of our objectives

[1:38:24] Voice 8: and um as far as you know there's there's the term carrying capacity um there's another way

[1:38:30] Voice 8: of looking at it and that is net impact on the environment per capita um so right now we have a

[1:38:38] Voice 8: we try to measure we're measuring you know people will say oh we our buildout is going to be

[1:38:44] Voice 8: another 4 000 buildings with 2.5 people and that's going to mean we're going to have a

[1:38:49] Voice 8: population of 17 000 people but if that's the case right now all those new 4 000 principal

[1:38:55] Voice 8: single family dwellings on five acre plus lots are are not affordable to anybody who's making

[1:39:01] Voice 8: under 150 000 a year so if all the 100 of our new population is not going to be working class

[1:39:09] Voice 8: and we're already having a hard time keeping the people that are needed to serve our community

[1:39:13] Voice 8: we're in trouble if that's that's and this is what our current plan is so um so i think there's

[1:39:20] Voice 8: a really serious question on that issue of carrying capacity or and build out and i'd just

[1:39:26] Voice 8: like to ask that you know we work in the terms net net impact per capita so that we can start to

[1:39:32] Voice 8: identify ways that but people can live with less impact on the environment and it might allow for

[1:39:37] Voice 8: more population but that the whole the whole community as a whole still has less net impact

[1:39:46] Voice 8: on the environment so that we're not afraid of populations so much as we are starting to

[1:39:50] Voice 8: consider things in terms of the impacts yeah yeah

[1:39:57] Voice 4: um i i think that um part of like we're on the

[1:40:03] Voice 4: the good ship housing task force and we're all starting out on this journey and where we start

[1:40:10] Voice 4: from we all not just need to distinguish the physical location of our starting

[1:40:19] Voice 4: place but also our way of thinking and so to distinguish that how we currently

[1:40:24] Voice 4: think about water is that we need to make up all our water needs from wells

[1:40:34] Voice 4: and lakes and and that's how we think about it that's our starting place how

[1:40:44] Voice 4: we think about sewage we have a you know we have the municipal system in Ganges

[1:40:50] Voice 4: and we have septic tanks and fields and and that's how we think about sewage

[1:40:57] Voice 4: that's our starting place so if we distinguish those things not as the

[1:41:03] Voice 4: the truth and not something we can change it's just where we're starting from you know for example

[1:41:09] Voice 4: it doesn't have to be where we end up you know like Bainbridge Island passed a bylaw that allowed

[1:41:16] Voice 4: for composting toilets you know it's doable you know the language can be created and

[1:41:25] Voice 4: you know not saying that necessarily needs to be part of our our mission but we need to distinguish

[1:41:30] Voice 4: distinguish how we think about things as part of our you know initial what so thank

[1:41:39] Voice 8: you my ken

[1:41:40] Voice 8: i

[1:41:42] Voice 11: think this is an extremely important point um you know if we're looking at being you know there

[1:41:49] Voice 11: was a discussion earlier about okay there's been all these great intentions for 20 years and what

[1:41:52] Voice 11: have we done we're looking at being able to move forward on whether it's something like this idea

[1:41:58] Voice 11: of a pilot project of a tiny home village or whatever it is and this idea of carrying capacity

[1:42:04] Voice 11: is often where things get stalled and i know like i said from talking to bc government and crd as

[1:42:10] Voice 11: well as arms trust that this is this is a major issue for all levels of government um you know

[1:42:17] Voice 11: they have different jurisdictions of course but uh and and ronan i appreciate your point that

[1:42:22] Voice 11: you know for example for a smaller dwelling the impact per capita on water use or a sewage impact

[1:42:30] Voice 11: or power consumption might be 10% of the Canadian per capita average.

[1:42:35] Voice 11: So we need some way of encouraging lower per capita use of resources

[1:42:42] Voice 11: and absolutely what Mara was saying.

[1:42:45] Voice 11: People always say, oh, we don't have enough water to have more people.

[1:42:49] Voice 11: Well, rainwater catchment is completely adequate for the majority of our uses,

[1:42:55] Voice 11: which don't require potable quality water.

[1:42:58] Voice 11: And it doesn't make sense to put all the money into creating potable water to flush down toilets, you know, and getting over fears of composting toilets, which has been done for thousands of years safely all over the world.

[1:43:14] Voice 11: So, and the last thing I want to say about this is there, and I really love win-win solutions where we can get everyone on board and traditionally there's this thought that the affordable housing or cooperative housing community is somehow at odds with the wealthier landowners and I, you know, there could be, again, you're all probably in a better place than me on the incentivization part of it, but there could be a way for, let's say, a large property owner with a large surface house.

[1:43:45] Voice 11: to gain some sort of benefit from having a couple of cottages

[1:43:49] Voice 11: or tiny homes or whatever on their property,

[1:43:52] Voice 11: which will lower their average per capita impact on resources

[1:43:57] Voice 11: while helping the housing crisis,

[1:44:00] Voice 11: while helping keep our service businesses running.

[1:44:05] Voice 8: Thank you.

[1:44:07] Voice 8: Does anyone else have any other comments?

[1:44:09] Voice 8: Daniel?

[1:44:12] Voice 10: I'm just looking at the time.

[1:44:15] Voice 10: We're down to 15 minutes left.

[1:44:17] Voice 10: and I was very impressed and struck by the letter that you'd circulated before and hoping we can

[1:44:23] Voice 10: move to talk with that quickly and see if we can. I mean, I know the biggest frustration most people

[1:44:29] Voice 10: have is how slowly this process takes and I would love to explore those recommendations you made and

[1:44:35] Voice 10: urge our trustees to adopt them. So I'm hoping we can talk about that before it's too late.

[1:44:40] Voice 8: Thank you, Daniel. I totally lost track of time and that's a very good point. These are important

[1:44:46] Voice 8: and discussions um i see my hand you've got your hand raised i just wanted to uh comment that

[1:44:51] Voice 8: perhaps um what we can do is um what i'd like to invite you all to do is on this topic of goals and

[1:44:59] Voice 8: objectives is to consider you know i also in the letter that i circulated there was i did make some

[1:45:05] Voice 8: um quotes so there are some objectives stated in the um in there's a quote that i made from the

[1:45:11] Voice 8: the housing working group report which states the objectives of the project and also within

[1:45:17] Voice 8: the project charter there are objectives so maybe you all can review that and maybe

[1:45:22] Voice 8: maybe you know either jot it down for yourself or maybe you know as part of a letter that you

[1:45:28] Voice 8: might give to the to the rest of us in between sessions articulate some maybe just some points

[1:45:34] Voice 8: that you think are important as objectives for us and maybe that way we can sort of consolidate our

[1:45:38] Voice 8: ideas into a list of points that we're trying to achieve through this process um making your

[1:45:45] Voice 8: hands down now I'll I'll move on to the to the next point which is um 3.2a um which which I

[1:45:56] Voice 8: which I brought up in the letter that Daniel was just referring to and maybe if you don't mind I'm

[1:46:02] Voice 8: sorry I don't want to take too much time but maybe I'll just read what I what I wrote um quickly

[1:46:08] Voice 8: so it is within the scope of this project for this task force to make recommendations to the

[1:46:13] Voice 8: LTC we as a body can't decide anything we're just advisories but we can recommend to the LTC

[1:46:21] Voice 8: things that they might want to do and then that would happen at the LTC level so short-term

[1:46:28] Voice 8: immediate actions that we might recommend to the LTC as well know the housing crisis is is very

[1:46:35] Voice 8: very intense. So maybe there's some things with the experience that we have without having

[1:46:40] Voice 8: gone through the whole study that we're undertaking, but with the experience that

[1:46:43] Voice 8: are in this group, we can recommend some things to the LTC that they might be able to do in

[1:46:47] Voice 8: parallel to this project taking shape that would allow the community to understand that this

[1:46:54] Voice 8: task force is living up to the objective of housing action within the context of the environment.

[1:47:01] Voice 8: So I had a few thoughts that I put out for discussion that I'd just like to summarize and then ask for your feedback on those.

[1:47:09] Voice 8: One is there's an existing bylaw on suites, but the suites bylaw is one of the things that we've done that the LTC tried to do but didn't really have very much uptake for various reasons.

[1:47:22] Voice 8: so in order you know it's not useful for the local government to do something that doesn't

[1:47:29] Voice 8: work if the objective is try to create housing so but the bylaw already exists and so it's actually

[1:47:35] Voice 8: a pretty easy thing for planners the planning staff to do to update this bylaw so that it might

[1:47:40] Voice 8: be broader and and have more uptake in the community so that's one idea updating the

[1:47:47] Voice 8: Suites By-law according to things that we might be able to identify as a group to help suggest

[1:47:54] Voice 8: updates that might make it more accessible and effective as a by-law. Also, the LTC can

[1:48:09] Voice 8: identify policies that can be done. I have a few examples to suggest. One is prioritizing

[1:48:17] Voice 8: of portable housing rezoning applications so that they're allowed to jump the queue in the

[1:48:21] Voice 8: planning department so that most experienced planners can take them on so that proponents

[1:48:27] Voice 8: feel encouraged and supported and they don't get stalled or delayed and we need to encourage

[1:48:33] Voice 8: proponents to come forward. The LTC could update their policy on bylaw enforcement

[1:48:40] Voice 8: to suspend any legal action against all non-conforming dwellings until there's some

[1:48:48] Voice 8: sort of measurable improvement of our housing stock. That's a temporary policy that they could

[1:48:53] Voice 8: do. And also the allowing the use of seasonal accommodation like resorts or well especially

[1:49:00] Voice 8: like resorts to be used right now they're allowed to be used seasonally but they're not allowed to

[1:49:05] Voice 8: to be used long-term. You know, think of like Green Acres Resorts, for example, the owner mentioned

[1:49:08] Voice 8: that to me one time. He'd love to be able to let people live there all winter long, but not allowed

[1:49:12] Voice 8: to. So the LTC might be able to have a policy, at least in a short-term policy, that would allow

[1:49:19] Voice 8: seasonal accommodation to be used for long-term so that people can have shelter while we're making

[1:49:24] Voice 8: transition to more sustainable solutions. So those are just some quick ideas that I had. I'd love to

[1:49:30] Voice 8: to hear your thoughts on those um are there any comments or any other ideas bryce um

[1:49:37] Voice 3: that's great

[1:49:38] Voice 3: ronan and that's what i think if i go back to yvonne if if we all can take a few minutes and

[1:49:44] Voice 3: jot down and i'm jumping right into 3.3 as well right now our ideas and our thoughts then i would

[1:49:51] Voice 3: certainly know where everybody's coming from like yvonne said um and there might be some very good

[1:49:57] Voice 3: ideas that I haven't ever thought of before that could be initiated and then we'd have time to

[1:50:02] Voice 3: think about the discussion that would happen in the next meeting and hopefully make the meetings

[1:50:07] Voice 3: much more productive and moving at a faster pace so I like what you suggested Ronan that you know

[1:50:13] Voice 3: if everybody could kind of let the rest of us know what their priorities are and what they think

[1:50:18] Voice 3: needs to be changed I think that would give us a really good starting point if I go back to Mayor

[1:50:23] Voice 3: because I totally agree with him if you don't know where you're starting from how do you know

[1:50:28] Voice 3: where you're going okay

[1:50:32] Voice 8: does anyone else have any comments uh Mike can I see your hand raised

[1:50:39] Voice 8: uh

[1:50:40] Voice 11: briefly um yeah very impressed by the group of suggestions and I will address them in my one

[1:50:47] Voice 11: to two page here thank

[1:50:50] Voice 8: you Stanley well

[1:50:53] Voice 5: consistent with getting some things done quickly I mean that

[1:50:57] Voice 5: that last point that you raised, it seems to me that that is something that perhaps we have to

[1:51:04] Voice 5: look at a little more closely in terms of what could possibly be the barriers to doing that.

[1:51:10] Voice 5: But it, along with the tiny houses, strike me as ideas that we ought to prioritize as the things

[1:51:22] Voice 5: that might be done in the short run you know in the long run we're all dead i mean i would do

[1:51:27] Voice 5: emphasis we do respect i think we should be emphasizing the short run and those are just

[1:51:35] Voice 5: unless anybody in this committee has already you know the reasons why they shouldn't happen

[1:51:42] Voice 5: that we really among along with everything else we do just try to see what we can do to a facilitate

[1:51:49] Voice 5: facilitate tiny housing everywhere. And secondarily, the place you mentioned is only one of a number

[1:51:57] Voice 5: of resorts on this island. Some might not be interested, but others might well be.

[1:52:06] Voice 8: Thank you. Any other comments? Luisa?

[1:52:16] Voice 14: Thank you. So the suggestion would be if you guys want to send me items that you feel can

[1:52:22] Voice 14: add to the checklist we can put a matrix together and bring it to you next month

[1:52:28] Voice 14: next month and then you can go through the priority okay

[1:52:34] Voice 8: so i'm hearing a couple of different

[1:52:37] Voice 8: orders of this right then i just like to clarify so in a way if you can all refer to my letter that

[1:52:42] Voice 8: i sent because in a way it's there in the two points that i raised there's one point that's

[1:52:46] Voice 8: about the broader objectives and goals which and which could include short medium and long-term

[1:52:54] Voice 8: issues and the other one is to address the short term that are ideas that we have that we could

[1:53:00] Voice 8: recommend as a group that are that could be immediate goals that the the LTC could take on

[1:53:06] Voice 8: now maybe even next meeting we could agree on on on a group of them and the points that are

[1:53:15] Voice 8: the points I suggest are there and so if people could maybe refer to my points and add other

[1:53:21] Voice 8: other points that are like that and then staff can maybe help us identify what's

[1:53:24] Voice 8: feasible or not to suggest and remember that we don't we're not deciding we're

[1:53:28] Voice 8: just recommending it this they're up to the LTC to decide so so we're free to to

[1:53:35] Voice 8: make our suggestions does that sound like a good strategy

[1:53:38] Voice 8: Daniel also

[1:53:42] Voice 10: just to hear what you what you're saying is that we would have a

[1:53:45] Voice 10: motion to sort of recommend that next meeting after we've discussed it or had

[1:53:50] Voice 10: had a chance to think about it that's what you're yeah

[1:53:52] Voice 8: i i think if that's what i'm recommending is

[1:53:55] Voice 8: if we can all sort of think about those points then maybe if we can agree next next um meeting

[1:54:01] Voice 8: maybe we can make a motion to recommend some points i

[1:54:04] Voice 10: think that's a fantastic idea

[1:54:06] Voice 8: um yvonne

[1:54:08] Voice 8: i think i saw your hand come up i

[1:54:10] Voice 12: just really wanted to reiterate the same thing i think you

[1:54:13] Voice 12: know we're coming up with good ideas and good plans and i think your recommendations were

[1:54:18] Voice 12: excellent so I think if we can get these things on the road and implement it rather than just sort

[1:54:24] Voice 12: of sit on the fence and be a good idea I think if we can actually you know if if our vote has a voice

[1:54:31] Voice 12: in Ireland's trust then I think it'll benefit everybody and that's what that's the object of

[1:54:39] Voice 12: this exercise is to make a difference so I think it's a really really good idea thank

[1:54:44] Voice 8: you does

[1:54:45] Voice 8: Does anyone else have any comments?

[1:54:48] Voice 14: I just want to make a suggestion.

[1:54:52] Voice 14: If I understand correctly, next month, were you supposed to provide a checklist or not

[1:54:59] Voice 14: that identify long-term, medium, and short-term?

[1:55:03] Voice 14: Or do you want to talk about it at the next meeting?

[1:55:09] Voice 8: So what I'm proposing is that everyone write in a few.

[1:55:15] Voice 8: There's two main points.

[1:55:17] Voice 8: One is objectives, they're short-term, medium, long-term.

[1:55:20] Voice 8: That's more of like guiding principles for our project.

[1:55:23] Voice 8: So people have thoughts about that that we can identify,

[1:55:26] Voice 8: but that'll be part of the ongoing discussion.

[1:55:29] Voice 8: And point two is people's ideas for immediate recommendations

[1:55:38] Voice 8: that we could recommend to the LTC, policies or easy short-term,

[1:55:45] Voice 8: low-hanging fruit, for example, updating the Suites By-law.

[1:55:48] Voice 8: that the ltc could be taken on could work on as a special project in parallel to this project

[1:55:53] Voice 8: um and so if we could if we if we hopefully there aren't that many because we don't want to spend

[1:55:59] Voice 8: amount of time i've laid out some examples so maybe people can review my point that was in my

[1:56:04] Voice 8: letter it was point two and you know add maybe some details to those points or some other thoughts

[1:56:12] Voice 8: that they might have in that vein of idea of things that are really attainable in the short

[1:56:16] Voice 8: short-term, then we could have a checklist for the next meeting that we could discuss

[1:56:23] Voice 8: and perhaps if we come to agreement, make a motion to recommend to the LTC a series

[1:56:29] Voice 8: of points that could be taken on.

[1:56:31] Voice 8: Does that make sense?

[1:56:33] Voice 14: I still don't quite follow.

[1:56:35] Voice 14: I just need to know if I create a checklist, are you guys sending me the items to add to

[1:56:42] Voice 14: the checklist so I can bring it to you?

[1:56:49] Voice 1: um okay so what i'm getting and what i think would be what i'm hearing from everything is that

[1:56:55] Voice 1: you want to create a matrix louisa you want to take all of our ideas and consolidate them you

[1:57:00] Voice 1: want to you want to find the similarities but to amongst us and and create some kind of prioritizing

[1:57:06] Voice 1: format around that say the objectives the greater things just like you're saying ronan same thing

[1:57:11] Voice 1: like there's the greater picture and then there's those like short-term goals so if she can create

[1:57:16] Voice 1: those and bring us a checklist for the next meeting then we will actually have create an

[1:57:22] Voice 1: opportunity and space in next week's or month's meeting should be weekly but you know but for us

[1:57:30] Voice 1: to be able to distill that even further together as a group because there's going to be a lot of

[1:57:37] Voice 1: alignments I'm sure I mean you know we can all add it all together say yeah we agree with Ronan's

[1:57:43] Voice 1: points in his plus i'd like to add these and then if we bring it to louisa and the staff hopefully

[1:57:48] Voice 1: that's not too much trouble for them then to distill that down into a collaborative list that

[1:57:53] Voice 1: now it belongs to all of us because we've all contributed to it and then that we will discuss

[1:57:57] Voice 1: does that make sense okay that's what i thought too if

[1:58:05] Voice 14: i understand correctly sorry we we do have

[1:58:07] Voice 14: the two minutes left and i just want to ask that if i understand correctly is you're going to email

[1:58:13] Voice 14: email me, all of you, email me your questions you have for the lawyer, and also the list

[1:58:19] Voice 14: of items to add to the checklist. I would appreciate if you let me know what you see

[1:58:27] Voice 14: as short-term, mid-term, and long-term. I don't want to make the interpretation for

[1:58:32] Voice 14: you.

[1:58:35] Voice 8: Okay,

[1:58:37] Voice 5: one quick question consistent with our discussions. Would Western civilization

[1:58:41] Voice 5: Crumble if this meeting ran another five or ten minutes

[1:58:47] Voice 1: Why

[1:58:48] Voice 5: the emphasis on

[1:58:51] Voice 5: The moment of doom with 3 p.m. Have I missed something?

[1:58:56] Voice 14: It's just that we have to be

[1:58:59] Voice 14: That have a lot of responsibility and we have actually two of us have planning conference right after this

[1:59:13] Voice 3: I would hope that if we all submit, Ronan, like you've done, our objectives and ideas and goals,

[1:59:20] Voice 3: if we could see it before the next meeting so we could be prepared at the next meeting to

[1:59:25] Voice 3: enter into discussions. Is that possible?

[1:59:28] Voice 8: Yeah, well, that's kind of what my thought was,

[1:59:30] Voice 8: that if it was like what I did, I wrote a letter and then it was part of the agenda package,

[1:59:34] Voice 8: at least which the agenda package came out late this week but we we just agreed I spoke to Louisa

[1:59:41] Voice 8: about that we've agreed to try to get the agenda package out at least the Friday before the meeting

[1:59:46] Voice 8: so that we'll have a chance to open it and review it on the weekend as well as through the week so

[1:59:50] Voice 8: that we'll have a chance to see everyone else's thoughts so

[1:59:54] Voice 3: then to be fair for the staff we need

[1:59:57] Voice 3: to have our suggestions in by a certain time frame

[1:59:59] Voice 3: room.

[2:00:00] Voice 8: That's right.

[2:00:01] Voice 3: Louisa, when would that be?

[2:00:03] Voice 14: As soon as you can, because we need almost a week time before the due day for the packets to go out.

[2:00:12] Voice 14: So in a couple of weeks, no later.

[2:00:15] Voice 3: Give us your dead date and we'll get our stuff in for them.

[2:00:19] Voice 1: Yeah, I love deadlines. Give me a deadline.

[2:00:21] Voice 1: I

[2:00:21] Voice 14: will look at the calendar because I have other deadlines.

[2:00:26] Voice 14: I want to make sure it's not complete with other deadlines.

[2:00:29] Voice 14: minds i just

[2:00:31] Voice 14: want to sorry i

[2:00:33] Voice 12: just wanted to thank you and i think this is just a great idea

[2:00:37] Voice 12: of all brainstorming together because this way we can make a difference which is what we all want

[2:00:44] Voice 12: so i just wanted to thank you yep

[2:00:46] Voice 3: bryce thank

[2:00:47] Voice 12: you good

[2:00:48] Voice 3: job in the first meeting ronan thank you

[2:00:50] Voice 3: thank

[2:00:51] Voice 8: you it's uh it feels like the hot seat five

[2:00:54] Voice 5: more years a few more years like i've seen you

[2:00:57] Voice 5: quite good at it does

[2:01:00] Voice 8: anyone else have any oh mike can i see your hand raise yeah

[2:01:04] Voice 11: i just want to

[2:01:04] Voice 11: thank everyone um i love hearing people's ideas and a group of experienced passionate

[2:01:13] Voice 11: people with a lot of vision and uh special thanks uh as well to to all the staff who

[2:01:19] Voice 11: facilitated this behind the scenes thank you uh

[2:01:25] Voice 8: sarah i see your hand raised thank

[2:01:27] Voice 13: you chair i

[2:01:28] Voice 13: I just wanted to make sure that I have

[2:01:30] Voice 13: this action recorded correctly.

[2:01:34] Voice 13: May I read what I've recorded?

[2:01:36] Voice 8: Sure, please.

[2:01:37] Voice 13: Okay, by general consent,

[2:01:39] Voice 13: task force members will forward the following

[2:01:42] Voice 13: to Planner Garbo.

[2:01:44] Voice 13: One, long-term, medium-term and short-term objectives.

[2:01:49] Voice 13: And two, ideas for immediate action recommendations

[2:01:52] Voice 13: for the local trust committee

[2:01:54] Voice 13: and request planner garbo to bring back a report prior to the next meeting yes

[2:02:02] Voice 8: that sounds excellent

[2:02:03] Voice 8: not

[2:02:03] Voice 14: a report a checklist a checklist a

[2:02:06] Voice 5: consolidating checklist a

[2:02:08] Voice 14: consolidated checklist

[2:02:10] Voice 8: yes and just to reiterate i like how you phrased it there is two points there's one's about short

[2:02:15] Voice 8: term medium long term and then the second point is immediate actions that can be taken in sarah

[2:02:20] Voice 8: the way you said it sounded good to me but just for clarity for the rest of the group that there's

[2:02:25] Voice 8: too and if and again if everyone refers to my letter i think it'll help guide you

[2:02:31] Voice 13: okay thank you does

[2:02:34] Voice 8: anyone else have any closing comments or we're at our time so maybe we should

[2:02:39] Voice 8: simply move to adjournment i just want to

[2:02:42] Voice 14: say i apologize that we are not able to extend the

[2:02:45] Voice 14: meeting today uh but we're going to try but we do have really jam-packed schedules unfortunately on

[2:02:52] Voice 14: on a Thursday so but we were looking to to see how we can give some flexibility that I think

[2:02:59] Voice 8: that's a good idea if we can only meet once a month maybe you know I don't mind staying a little

[2:03:03] Voice 8: bit longer to give time for things maybe by general agreement if we could allow for that to to occur

[2:03:08] Voice 8: that would be at least where we're meeting at least we can maybe go a little bit longer

[2:03:12] Voice 1: yeah absolutely I would really appreciate that as well I don't like feeling rushed at the end

[2:03:17] Voice 1: it feels like okay

[2:03:21] Voice 8: well um we've reached our time for today um to respect staff's need to move

[2:03:26] Voice 8: on to their next commitments um i move to adjourn the meeting thank

[2:03:33] Voice 14: you oh you don't need a motion

[2:03:35] Voice 14: for okay

[2:03:36] Voice 8: great let's adjourn have a great day get out and enjoy the sunshine thank you all