Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee regular meeting, July 15, 2021

[0:00:00] Voice 2: here a minute ago.

[0:00:01] Voice 12: Oh, she is here. Okay. She told me that I would be sharing since she wouldn't be

[0:00:08] Voice 12: able to make the meeting, but sounds like she worked it around.

[0:00:12] Voice 2: Yeah, she was here a few minutes

[0:00:14] Voice 2: a minute ago and then she's off the screen.

[0:00:20] Voice 12: Oh, okay. We want to wait a minute

[0:00:25] Voice 12: until see if she

[0:00:26] Voice 12: comes back or should we start?

[0:00:29] Voice 2: Yeah, I'm not sure if there's a video connection problem or what

[0:00:33] Voice 2: happened okay

[0:00:34] Voice 12: let's wait for a moment yeah give her a sec here we go connecting somebody's trying

[0:00:47] Voice 12: to grab

[0:01:07] Voice 13: something i'll be right back actually no i can do that here okay morning everybody

[0:01:17] Voice 8: just checking in i'm gonna be eavesdropping today hi there's

[0:01:25] Voice 13: roman but

[0:01:27] Voice 12: i hear that roll

[0:01:27] Voice 13: hi

[0:01:31] Voice 12: dave can

[0:01:38] Voice 14: you all hear me yep

[0:01:40] Voice 12: hello robin there she is hi

[0:01:45] Voice 14: how is everyone

[0:01:48] Voice 14: just

[0:01:50] Voice 13: ducky good morning thanks well

[0:01:56] Voice 15: i've been camping and uh i'm uh visiting family away so

[0:02:01] Voice 15: i found this wi-fi to use so i hope that i come through clearly great

[0:02:07] Voice 12: okay

[0:02:09] Voice 15: um

[0:02:11] Voice 15: um, I guess we should launch the meeting, eh? Um, so first I, I'd like to acknowledge that we are

[0:02:19] Voice 15: in a planning process for a beautiful place we call home that has been home to many, many people

[0:02:28] Voice 15: over thousands and thousands and thousands of years, including the Hul'q'uminum and Sinchothan

[0:02:34] Voice 15: speaking peoples of the Coast Salish bands. And that is represented in the possible inclusion

[0:02:46] Voice 15: of the Sheehaut name for Ganges in our planning process. So next I guess we have roll call

[0:02:58] Voice 15: and uh looks like uh do I need to go down a list somewhere or just say

[0:03:06] Voice 12: we need to for the record

[0:03:07] Voice 12: yes okay

[0:03:09] Voice 15: well let me find the list I

[0:03:15] Voice 12: have one here if you

[0:03:16] Voice 12: want me to walk through it oh thank

[0:03:20] Voice 14: you Mike that'd be great

[0:03:21] Voice 12: okay so um Robin and I are the chair and vice chair and we're present

[0:03:27] Voice 12: and I'll go through it alphabetically. Eric Booth, not here. He's here.

[0:03:35] Voice 13: He's just muted.

[0:03:36] Voice 13: Oh, he's

[0:03:37] Voice 12: muted. Okay. Can we get a show of your hand and also a verbal response so it'll be

[0:03:43] Voice 12: recorded correctly? Because you weren't recorded in the last set of minutes, so I thought people

[0:03:49] Voice 12: should know you were there then too. Okay, so Eric Booth is present. Jesse Brown. Jesse Brown is a

[0:03:57] Voice 12: a new member of the task force appointed by peter and laura and um we wanted to welcome him but i

[0:04:05] Voice 12: guess he's not on yet so he may or may not be in attendance david dennison i'm

[0:04:10] Voice 5: here john gold

[0:04:12] Voice 12: here

[0:04:13] Voice 5: bob

[0:04:14] Voice 12: mckay here jennifer maximets and i may be mispronouncing your last name i

[0:04:23] Voice 15: think she is not

[0:04:24] Voice 15: not going to be part of this group after all oh

[0:04:26] Voice 12: okay um we had her down as a as as absent last

[0:04:31] Voice 12: week but attending this intending to attend this coming week jenny mclean here sebastian moffitt

[0:04:41] Voice 12: sebastian moffitt not present chris planbeck uh

[0:04:49] Voice 5: he's here chris you're muted are

[0:04:51] Voice 12: you on mute can

[0:04:52] Voice 12: Can you speak to us?

[0:04:58] Voice 12: Can you hear me now?

[0:04:59] Voice 12: There we go.

[0:05:00] Voice 12: We can hear you now.

[0:05:02] Voice 12: It sounds like a phone commercial.

[0:05:04] Voice 12: Okay.

[0:05:04] Voice 12: So we want to register that absent our, well, at least we believe absent our Jesse Brown, who we recently been appointed.

[0:05:23] Voice 5: Jesse, you're muted.

[0:05:24] Voice 5: Jesse's here.

[0:05:25] Voice 12: Oh, he is here. Okay, sorry. And Sebastian Moffitt is absent still?

[0:05:35] Voice 15: Looks like it.

[0:05:36] Voice 12: Okay. So just before we get started, and I'll turn it back to Robin in a second, can I just suggest that because we haven't been introduced to Jesse or Jennifer properly, and in the very first meeting we all went around and talked about why we'd applied to the task force

[0:05:56] Voice 12: and what our involvement was with the community.

[0:05:59] Voice 12: Can we ask Jesse to speak to that for a quick moment

[0:06:02] Voice 12: and just share his background with us?

[0:06:05] Voice 12: Is that okay?

[0:06:08] Voice 12: Yes.

[0:06:09] Voice 12: Okay.

[0:06:12] Voice 9: Well, thank you so much for having me as part of the task force.

[0:06:17] Voice 9: And I apologize for being a few minutes late there,

[0:06:24] Voice 9: just a technical problem getting the Zoom launched.

[0:06:27] Voice 9: much. However, I'm really happy to be here and to participate. I've been acquainted with Salt

[0:06:35] Voice 9: Spring Island for the majority of my life. My grandma retired here and built a home here. And

[0:06:44] Voice 9: so I spent most summers here. And then my parents came as well. And so there was an opportunity to

[0:06:54] Voice 9: apply for a job for the Chamber of Commerce and so I did and I was successful and luckily

[0:07:01] Voice 9: due to the family history I had a place to stay so here I am and

[0:07:09] Voice 9: beyond working at the Chamber of Commerce I am slowly getting acquainted with the community so

[0:07:14] Voice 9: I'm not part of any other groups but with the Chamber one of the directions is

[0:07:21] Voice 9: is being less siloed and working more

[0:07:24] Voice 9: with other partner organizations.

[0:07:27] Voice 9: So I learned a lot and I've been making connections

[0:07:31] Voice 9: with Southern Gulf Islands Tourism Partnership,

[0:07:35] Voice 9: the Economic Commission of the CRD,

[0:07:38] Voice 9: Transition Salt Spring, amongst many other groups.

[0:07:42] Voice 9: And definitely feel like my ears on the ground

[0:07:45] Voice 9: with the community because the visitor,

[0:07:49] Voice 9: I'm sorry, the Chamber of Commerce operates the Salt Spring Island Visitor Information Centre.

[0:07:54] Voice 9: And so I've met a ton of people.

[0:07:57] Voice 9: There's 40 active volunteers who help visitors and locals alike get information on Salt Spring Island.

[0:08:05] Voice 9: And we're really happy that we were able to finally reopen July 1st.

[0:08:11] Voice 9: And we've seen tons of people coming through the doors just even yesterday.

[0:08:15] Voice 9: Sorry, on Tuesday, there was 92 people who came in.

[0:08:18] Voice 9: And so things are picking up on Salt Spring. I'm here to learn and then offer whatever insight I

[0:08:24] Voice 9: can. And really great to meet all of you.

[0:08:32] Voice 15: Nice to meet you too, Jesse. And thanks so much, Mike,

[0:08:36] Voice 15: for handling the roll call. So here we are. The next item on our agenda is the approval of last

[0:08:44] Voice 15: month's minutes. Are there any...

[0:08:47] Voice 12: Is that right? Or is it the... I thought the order was we're

[0:08:54] Voice 12: supposed to approve the agenda first no all right

[0:08:57] Voice 15: you're keeping me keeping me on track mike thank

[0:09:00] Voice 15: you yeah no

[0:09:01] Voice 12: i'm asking is that yeah

[0:09:03] Voice 15: you're right it is there i just didn't have it pulled up

[0:09:06] Voice 15: approval of agenda great

[0:09:08] Voice 12: um can i ask a question here because i have a concern with the order

[0:09:13] Voice 12: based on the fact that items uh both items two and three might be affected by our discussion

[0:09:20] Voice 12: and getting some of our questions answered,

[0:09:24] Voice 12: I'd like to suggest they get pushed back

[0:09:26] Voice 12: to after our discussion with legal counsel.

[0:09:30] Voice 12: Would anyone have any objections to that?

[0:09:32] Voice 12: And if not, I'll make a formal motion to make that change.

[0:09:38] Voice 15: I was hoping we could get through

[0:09:40] Voice 15: just the study area boundaries at least,

[0:09:44] Voice 15: you know, so that we don't get...

[0:09:47] Voice 15: We might spend our whole meeting in legal counsel

[0:09:50] Voice 15: and process discussion and I was hoping we could just talk about content a little bit up front and

[0:09:55] Voice 15: get a sense of momentum and then

[0:09:58] Voice 1: if we want

[0:09:59] Voice 15: to I would be I would be fine putting um the proposed

[0:10:03] Voice 15: area plan elements later on because that's a big discussion if if we're able to just touch on the

[0:10:09] Voice 15: study area boundary and vision statement up front okay

[0:10:13] Voice 12: I'll defer to you other John has John has

[0:10:16] Voice 12: Robyn, you

[0:10:18] Voice 15: know what that is. Can you guys raise your hands physically again. Once again, I don't have the little icons on my version of zoom for some reason. So I think it was john and then Louisa. All right.

[0:10:32] Voice 11: Sure. And just quickly, I support the existing agenda because I think we do want to try and deal with items on on item two. So I would like to leave the agenda as is. Thank you.

[0:10:45] Voice 2: Louisa.

[0:10:45] Voice 15: And

[0:10:46] Voice 2: I also will recommend to stay on the agenda because, first of all, we worked with the chair to get this agenda.

[0:10:53] Voice 2: And secondly, our legal advisor hasn't arrived because we adjusted her schedule.

[0:11:01] Voice 15: OK, so the legal advisor will arrive at 1045 or just before, hopefully.

[0:11:09] Voice 15: So we have until then to discuss whatever we want.

[0:11:16] Voice 15: um did you want did you want to uh clarify anything mike before the legal advisor arrived or

[0:11:25] Voice 15: no

[0:11:26] Voice 12: no no we can go ahead with the agenda the way it is okay

[0:11:30] Voice 15: um i motion that we approve the agenda

[0:11:33] Voice 15: second by chris uh all in favor all opposed all right um moving on now we have the minutes

[0:11:48] Voice 15: minutes. I imagine there are some corrections to the minutes. Are there any corrections to the

[0:11:54] Voice 15: minutes?

[0:11:56] Voice 12: I have one correction, which is Eric Booth was present and accounted for at the meeting,

[0:12:00] Voice 12: but he's not listed as attending or as a member of the task force from the minutes.

[0:12:06] Voice 15: All right. Can that be changed, please? All right. Any other edits to the minutes?

[0:12:18] Voice 12: I have what I think is a correction under item 1.3 in regard to the approval of the draft minutes

[0:12:23] Voice 12: minutes of April 15th. It was moved and seconded that to change the minutes to read that many of

[0:12:30] Voice 12: the task force members requested the work plan be adjusted to be completed to share the task

[0:12:37] Voice 12: force recommendations prior to the 2022 trustee elections. My recollection, we did state

[0:12:45] Voice 12: Specifically, there were seven members of the task force of the nine that agreed we should try to move it up and that it should be presented to the trustees prior to the election, not just share our task force recommendations, which could mean share with the public or other things.

[0:13:09] Voice 12: it's just too vague so and saying that many uh just doesn't necessarily constitute a majority

[0:13:18] Voice 12: and we clearly were a majority in that sense so i think that just needs to be corrected

[0:13:25] Voice 12: the amendment to the minutes needs to be amended if that's okay with everyone

[0:13:34] Voice 12: can

[0:13:34] Voice 10: i have a chance to be on the speaker queue for this too after michael's finished

[0:13:39] Voice 12: yeah so i just think a majority of task force members could be used but many is is too vague

[0:13:49] Voice 12: and also that it was to be referred to the trustees not just to be shared again the word

[0:13:56] Voice 12: shared is just too vague all

[0:14:01] Voice 15: right so you'd like it to be changed to say the majority and to be

[0:14:05] Voice 15: be presented to yes

[0:14:06] Voice 12: please all

[0:14:09] Voice 15: right jenny and then david is that right hi

[0:14:14] Voice 10: um if we're actually

[0:14:16] Voice 10: planning to make this an official recommendation rather than just like a wish list then we should

[0:14:23] Voice 10: probably have an actual vote on it because what michael and we would vote that as a task force we

[0:14:30] Voice 10: we agree or disagree with this recommendation and as such I we would maybe word it that we

[0:14:38] Voice 10: understand it's a it's a recommendation because I think we're also changing things that are

[0:14:43] Voice 10: connected to the legal advice we're going to be receiving this morning because we're changing if

[0:14:48] Voice 10: we were to have this actually happen and it would actually become not just a wish list but an actual

[0:14:54] Voice 10: goal then we're actually changing something that's part of the structure of the task force so

[0:15:00] Voice 10: So it would have to be more formalized even beyond what the wording is right now.

[0:15:05] Voice 10: It would have to be put into different wording and have a motion.

[0:15:09] Voice 15: Doesn't it say in the minutes that it was carried by vote?

[0:15:15] Voice 12: No.

[0:15:16] Voice 12: No.

[0:15:17] Voice 15: On my minutes here, doesn't it say it was moved and seconded, that we do the following, and then carried?

[0:15:27] Voice 15: Oh, I'm looking at a different month.

[0:15:29] Voice 15: I'm sorry.

[0:15:30] Voice 13: Yeah.

[0:15:30] Voice 13: April

[0:15:31] Voice 15: 15th that says that we want it to be adjusted to the 2022 elections was that not

[0:15:39] Voice 15: part of was that not the amendment you were discussing yeah

[0:15:43] Voice 12: but but was it moved and actually

[0:15:45] Voice 12: seconded and voted on because it doesn't refer to that in the minutes if we made a motion and

[0:15:52] Voice 12: voted on it should be stated as a resolution in the minutes okay

[0:15:58] Voice 15: I'm looking at the minutes

[0:16:02] Voice 15: and from Thursday June 17th one call to order two and then you go down approval

[0:16:09] Voice 15: of draft minutes and then at 1.3 and then the bottom of that says that the

[0:16:14] Voice 15: minutes were adopted but

[0:16:17] Voice 12: what that's a following amendment yeah we were

[0:16:19] Voice 12: modifying the minutes from the April 15th oh

[0:16:21] Voice 15: I see so you want to vote you

[0:16:25] Voice 15: You would like to vote that we not only amend the minutes, but that we formally vote to approve the amendment to the minutes in a formal.

[0:16:37] Voice 15: Yes, I am following you now.

[0:16:40] Voice 15: Okay.

[0:16:40] Voice 5: In which case, speaking out of order, maybe we do we have to go back to Robert's rules of order because now we're this is.

[0:16:50] Voice 5: Can we do that or is that new business?

[0:16:52] Voice 5: Do we have to vote that as part of the business of this meeting, or can we have a motion vote on it as adjusting the minutes of the previous meeting?

[0:17:04] Voice 15: Well, I think let's just have a new motion if people feel strongly about that right now, and let's move on to our other elements of the agenda so we can have some discussions.

[0:17:18] Voice 15: I

[0:17:18] Voice 5: still have a question slash point, Robin.

[0:17:21] Voice 15: and okay um so in any case we will change those minutes um let's get back to your point jenny

[0:17:30] Voice 15: right after we finish with the minutes discussion um david did you have a comment or suggestion

[0:17:37] Voice 15: you're next

[0:17:38] Voice 15: on the hand okay

[0:17:40] Voice 5: uh yeah i i just had a question about the way the minutes were drafted

[0:17:45] Voice 5: So Mike is the only person who is sort of called out or almost felt like singled out where we talked about many members or the member or a member.

[0:17:56] Voice 5: So is that an explicit policy that we anticipate here?

[0:18:04] Voice 5: Because we're being recorded, right?

[0:18:05] Voice 5: Right. So it just it struck me as a little odd that that were anonymous in the minutes, which which is OK.

[0:18:14] Voice 5: I don't necessarily need to see my name in minutes beyond being at the top.

[0:18:19] Voice 5: I just confused, though, why, for example, Mike was called out, but nobody else was.

[0:18:27] Voice 10: Can I go into

[0:18:29] Voice 10: the speaker list, please?

[0:18:31] Voice 15: Yeah, I've got you, Jenny. Maybe that's a question for Sarah or for Louisa.

[0:18:37] Voice 15: on how the minutes are recorded uh

[0:18:42] Voice 2: chair i i'm not sure i don't have a preference we can remove

[0:18:48] Voice 2: the name if that's what we prefer i actually didn't even catch this one okay

[0:18:55] Voice 15: um david do you

[0:18:56] Voice 15: want your question answered specifically on when they include a name and when they

[0:19:01] Voice 15: say many but

[0:19:04] Voice 5: it just struck me as odd you know maybe uh maybe it'll change over time i i just

[0:19:09] Voice 5: it's kind of expectations just should what should i expect this or should i expect something

[0:19:14] Voice 5: different and i and i don't think i i think you know even though we're being recorded um we're

[0:19:20] Voice 5: kind of you know seeing member member member then mike jumped out at me you know i think we also

[0:19:26] Voice 5: want to protect ourselves from being necessarily singled out yeah

[0:19:30] Voice 2: we can totally remove the name

[0:19:32] Voice 2: one thing is um according to robert's rules we actually have done a little bit more than robert's

[0:19:39] Voice 2: rules require when we do the minutes for this task force i believe it was the comment from the last

[0:19:45] Voice 2: meeting that uh some members want more detailed and instead of just a the typical when we do ltc

[0:19:54] Voice 2: you know uh the the trustees when they have the meetings uh it's really following they follow the

[0:20:01] Voice 2: roberts rules more the substance rather than verbatim uh so i'm not sure maybe that was

[0:20:06] Voice 2: through that process that the name got included but we can certainly not identify the person not

[0:20:14] Voice 2: the speaker but more the content we're trying to cater to the uh preference of the task force

[0:20:22] Voice 2: so we're doing a little bit more than we typically would do i think rob may have a comment on that

[0:20:30] Voice 16: from a staff point uh just uh when i review uh the minutes i see uh member best

[0:20:41] Voice 16: regarding his item of task force role discussion i don't see it regarding any

[0:20:48] Voice 16: comments made in a discussion of a particular item so when a member brings forward something

[0:20:57] Voice 16: for discussion. We are identifying members as the member that brings it forward. We did it three

[0:21:03] Voice 16: times in those minutes with member Moffitt's presentation and member McLean's current

[0:21:09] Voice 16: priorities. I don't see member best anywhere else. And so I'm just looking for clarity. If that's the

[0:21:15] Voice 16: spot where you're referring to, that's the reasoning.

[0:21:19] Voice 5: Okay. So I'm looking at the document,

[0:21:21] Voice 5: Rob, you sent us. And we've got, you know, there's Ganges Area Planning Task Force, June 17, 2021, member roll call, approval of agenda, approval of draft minutes.

[0:21:38] Voice 5: A member stated that. The member stated seven members discussed the idea. The member also expressed concern. The member asked.

[0:21:48] Voice 5: asked. And then we go down a member report of the notes. It was moved and seconded. And then

[0:21:56] Voice 5: finally, 1.5, member best spoke to the role of the task force.

[0:22:00] Voice 15: Yeah, because he

[0:22:01] Voice 15: requested a specific

[0:22:04] Voice 15: line, you know, a specific discussion that he would lead.

[0:22:09] Voice 16: So we're not identifying in the

[0:22:11] Voice 16: discussion who says what through the discussion. That's a Robert's Rules position.

[0:22:20] Voice 16: Rob Leibowitz, But with an agenda item it's brought forward by someone and so it's noted as who brings forward the agenda item.

[0:22:27] Voice 5: Rob Leibowitz, Okay, just

[0:22:28] Voice 16: made and begins the discussion.

[0:22:30] Voice 15: Wendy Gaertner, All right, are there any other questions to the minutes Jenny is yours, a correction to the minute.

[0:22:37] Voice 10: Jenny Clark, i'm okay I through the other parts of the discussion I got my question resolved thanks Robin yeah so I don't have

[0:22:44] Voice 10: to say anything.

[0:22:44] Voice 10: All

[0:22:45] Voice 15: right. So with those changes, I move that we approve the minutes. A second from David. All right. All in favor? All in favor.

[0:23:00] Voice 15: All right. All opposed?

[0:23:01] Voice 15: proposed. Right, right. Okay, moving on. This is where we get to start to get into

[0:23:10] Voice 15: the unfinished business. Well, I would just say it's kind of the beginning of this business. But

[0:23:16] Voice 15: let's talk about the study on area boundary proposed. Is that something that you want to

[0:23:22] Voice 15: speak to, Louisa?

[0:23:24] Voice 2: Yeah, I have a quick presentation, if that's okay, just to explain what we're

[0:23:29] Voice 2: presenting. I'm going to share the screen really quickly. And

[0:23:35] Voice 2: for the interest of time, we are a bit behind schedule. So what

[0:23:41] Voice 2: I'd like to do is, let me just get to the PowerPoint. What I

[0:23:47] Voice 2: like to do is actually combine the three items on the agenda

[0:23:50] Voice 2: because they are related. So really quickly, just want to

[0:23:55] Voice 2: give you the status on the project. We're slightly behind

[0:23:59] Voice 2: schedule this is our fifth meetings so staff is looking to you are some

[0:24:03] Voice 2: direction from the task force but we're still in I guess despite a little bit

[0:24:12] Voice 2: behind schedule but we're still on task so just to bring back the study boundary

[0:24:18] Voice 2: that we showed to you a couple of times in the past meetings members requested

[0:24:24] Voice 2: some explanation as to why we draw the boundary certain way so we included

[0:24:29] Voice 2: that those comments in the bubbles that you saw on the you can see on the map here just to explain

[0:24:35] Voice 2: why we propose the boundary as is keep in mind this is just for discussion only it's a tool for

[0:24:44] Voice 2: us to give the community a sense of the area we're looking into and we do research and analysis on

[0:24:51] Voice 2: this is not casting stones throughout the process it's probably going to continuously evolve

[0:24:57] Voice 2: involved until we get to a certain stage where we feel that's going to be the final boundaries.

[0:25:04] Voice 2: So again, this is just for, to create a baseline for us to discuss.

[0:25:10] Voice 2: And we also share the framework with, I feel like I missed the, no, we share the framework,

[0:25:22] Voice 2: work, whatever the specific elements should be included in the area plan. If you recall,

[0:25:30] Voice 2: we sent you three to four examples, maybe even five examples of area plans. So this is along

[0:25:36] Voice 2: the same line. Again, this is really general. As we continue to evolve, we might discover

[0:25:43] Voice 2: certain elements need to be included. Now, the red words from the task force in one of those

[0:25:50] Voice 2: meetings when we share the task force that we need to look at a few things. So we incorporated those.

[0:25:56] Voice 2: And again, this is really general, but this is important for staff. If the task force feel

[0:26:04] Voice 2: comfortable enough to accept that and say baseline, that way we can start our conversation

[0:26:10] Voice 2: and start doing our research and analysis. This is the part that will take the whole chunk of time

[0:26:16] Voice 2: for staff to work on and at the meeting that talks about the vision members on the task force gave

[0:26:28] Voice 2: a lot of I guess individual words that's part of the brainstorming exercise so we collected all

[0:26:36] Voice 2: the words and we make a really draft vision statement again this is to create a dialogue

[0:26:44] Voice 2: to communicate with the community.

[0:26:49] Voice 2: This can evolve.

[0:26:50] Voice 2: We want input, we want the community to kind of look at it

[0:26:54] Voice 2: and say, well, perhaps that's not enough

[0:26:56] Voice 2: or that's good enough, or have you thought about this?

[0:27:00] Voice 2: So those are the really basic vision statement.

[0:27:04] Voice 2: As you look at other area plans,

[0:27:07] Voice 2: you recall some of them can be really long,

[0:27:10] Voice 2: but I caution having a really complicated vision statement

[0:27:14] Voice 2: makes it really hard to achieve, especially for staff.

[0:27:17] Voice 2: Once the area plan got implemented,

[0:27:20] Voice 2: we want to be able to utilize the vision statement

[0:27:24] Voice 2: to support our review process.

[0:27:26] Voice 2: So this is a really draft vision statement

[0:27:31] Voice 2: and we're going to bring in, hopefully by next meeting,

[0:27:35] Voice 2: you'll get to meet the consultant.

[0:27:37] Voice 2: The consultant is going to take direction

[0:27:39] Voice 2: from the task force and just kind of figure out

[0:27:41] Voice 2: what should be included in the public engagement process and also taking the vision statement as a

[0:27:48] Voice 2: discussion with the community to see what else they feel need to be added in it. So basically

[0:27:55] Voice 2: it's just three things we bring it to the task force to consider for us to use so we can start

[0:28:01] Voice 2: having the dialogue and start building a public engagement process, the vision statement, the basic

[0:28:07] Voice 2: basic elements to be included in the area plan, as well as the area plan boundary. And I will

[0:28:15] Voice 2: defer that to the task force for this session. One thing I just want to share with you is kind

[0:28:21] Voice 2: of a fun exercise that we did. We mentioned to you with the school, we worked with the school,

[0:28:29] Voice 2: I can't remember the grade now off the top of my head, and they put a plan together,

[0:28:34] Voice 2: get a sort of a map.

[0:28:36] Voice 2: And there's also a video that they talk about

[0:28:39] Voice 2: what they want to see in Ganges Village.

[0:28:43] Voice 2: And this is the end product for their project.

[0:28:48] Voice 2: And we do have a permission to incorporate

[0:28:52] Voice 2: that into our area plan,

[0:28:53] Voice 2: maybe perhaps in the arts and culture section

[0:28:56] Voice 2: or the visioning section.

[0:28:59] Voice 2: The video, however, we don't have permission to share.

[0:29:03] Voice 2: So that's why I couldn't share that with you.

[0:29:06] Voice 2: So with that being said, that's kind of the summary of where we are at right now.

[0:29:11] Voice 2: And we do ask that if the task force is comfortable with just a framework, everything, all three

[0:29:20] Voice 2: items we presented to you, it will evolve.

[0:29:24] Voice 2: It's not cast in stone.

[0:29:26] Voice 2: It's just something we propose so that we can have a discussion with the community.

[0:29:30] Voice 2: If you're okay with that, we have two resolutions proposed to you.

[0:29:35] Voice 2: One is that you will accept.

[0:29:38] Voice 2: It's only accepting.

[0:29:39] Voice 2: And even the task force, you can continuously discuss and evolve and make changes to it, too.

[0:29:46] Voice 2: So we are asking to have accepting the...

[0:30:00] Voice 2: preliminary area plan boundary so we can start talking to the community about how they feel how

[0:30:05] Voice 2: they want to change and also the element to be included and then the second resolution is

[0:30:12] Voice 2: sorry second resolution is the element so with that being said that's kind of the basic

[0:30:18] Voice 2: items we would like to share with you and get some feedback from you

[0:30:24] Voice 12: sorry i'm losing your volume here all right so

[0:30:30] Voice 15: let's see i am gonna start seeing hands like

[0:30:33] Voice 15: uh david and mike so and jenny okay so um i guess i would i would say that's a lot uh

[0:30:43] Voice 15: so maybe we can just uh have our first comments and then just focus on the area

[0:30:50] Voice 15: area that, okay, so was it David

[0:30:55] Voice 5: or Mike? I'm cool focusing however you want to focus.

[0:30:58] Voice 15: Okay. But

[0:30:59] Voice 5: I do have comments.

[0:31:00] Voice 15: Great. Let's hear them.

[0:31:01] Voice 5: So Louisa, thank you very much.

[0:31:05] Voice 5: I did read and appreciate the bubbles on the area map. So I'll start with the boundary.

[0:31:11] Voice 5: I didn't ask any questions that I had of that specifically to me. I can't speak for anybody

[0:31:17] Voice 5: else. And the reason I didn't is I wanted to see the framework first. So I wanted to ask those

[0:31:21] Voice 5: questions in context of a framework that would help guide, you know, so I could be asking the

[0:31:26] Voice 5: right questions. So I'm not going to waste the committee's time. So bottom line, I wouldn't be

[0:31:31] Voice 5: happy at this point in accepting the first of the resolutions, because personally, I'm a long way

[0:31:38] Voice 5: from being anywhere close to wanting to vet this or consult to this. I minimally have questions

[0:31:46] Voice 5: is on all four corners which in other words i have questions on the whole thing so and i want

[0:31:53] Voice 5: to use the framework to provide some guidance there

[0:31:55] Voice 12: gotcha

[0:31:57] Voice 14: um mike well yeah i'd

[0:32:00] Voice 12: like to add

[0:32:00] Voice 12: on one question in in that uh to to what david was saying um correct me if i'm wrong did you not

[0:32:08] Voice 12: request that the framework for how this was formulated be presented to the task force

[0:32:14] Voice 12: from the staff and has that been done because I don't recall it if it has

[0:32:21] Voice 5: yes yes I did ask and

[0:32:24] Voice 5: Louisa I wasn't sure from what you just said did did I miss so so I was eagerly reading uh your

[0:32:30] Voice 5: slide there and feeling like maybe I'd missed something did did did I miss that you had sent

[0:32:35] Voice 5: that before or so I was

[0:32:38] Voice 12: bad was there a

[0:32:40] Voice 12: framework uh presented is what I'm asking yeah go ahead

[0:32:45] Voice 15: Hi.

[0:32:46] Voice 2: Thank you, Chair. Yes, it was presented, and we got some comments, so that's why there

[0:32:51] Voice 2: is some red words that added to it from the committee, from the task force member. Keep

[0:32:58] Voice 2: in mind, you don't have to accept anything. That's definitely another option. We want

[0:33:06] Voice 2: to work with the task force, but we also want to continuously making headway on this project

[0:33:12] Voice 2: and way into the fifth month so it's less than two years so that's why staff is taking that

[0:33:17] Voice 2: approach perhaps we bring something for you to react you definitely don't have to accept the

[0:33:22] Voice 2: vision statement you can continue working on it uh and but we need something out of the three we

[0:33:29] Voice 2: need something if there is no study boundary there is no elements we don't know where to start so

[0:33:35] Voice 2: and i think

[0:33:36] Voice 15: it's the chicken chicken and the egg questions here because i as i understand david and

[0:33:41] Voice 15: Mike they're asking how was this preliminary map created is this the like sort of a series of steps

[0:33:47] Voice 15: it's like was this the previous OCP and then did you add another layer in here and why why are we

[0:33:53] Voice 15: seeing these three colors um why are some areas

[0:33:57] Voice 15: included so again

[0:34:00] Voice 5: so I let me apologize again

[0:34:03] Voice 5: Louisa but if you could send I guess everybody since no point just sending it to me um but I'm

[0:34:08] Voice 5: I'm happy if you just send it to me.

[0:34:09] Voice 5: Just send the slide that you just posted there

[0:34:12] Voice 5: because it's already disappeared off my screen.

[0:34:15] Voice 5: And then I really want to have a fulsome discussion on that.

[0:34:19] Voice 5: And I appreciate your time concern.

[0:34:21] Voice 5: Obviously, we all are concerned about time.

[0:34:24] Voice 5: It's just I haven't had a chance,

[0:34:27] Voice 5: I don't feel personally, again,

[0:34:30] Voice 5: to ask questions about the Four Corners.

[0:34:35] Voice 5: So I'm just not comfortable with any form of resolution.

[0:34:38] Voice 5: at this point on that on the boundary not that i don't want to get there but all

[0:34:44] Voice 15: right we hear you

[0:34:45] Voice 15: and uh uh i guess jenny was next uh yeah

[0:34:51] Voice 10: i mean there has been changes there have been changes

[0:34:55] Voice 10: over the last 30 years to the boundary of what's considered like outside of discussions or focus

[0:35:02] Voice 10: groups just the actual boundary from the island trust development point of view as to what's

[0:35:07] Voice 10: considered the ganges village area so i'm just trying to get clear on what we're deciding right

[0:35:14] Voice 10: now are we deciding whether we as a group feel comfortable to identify the or to agree with the

[0:35:22] Voice 10: map that this is now going to be considered the area of study and is potentially the ganges

[0:35:28] Voice 10: village area and generally what it means for a residence or a property to be inside the ganges

[0:35:34] Voice 10: village area it means that um up zoning can generally apply so i'm wondering are we being

[0:35:41] Voice 10: asked right now what is our opinion on including this entire map with these uh blue line green line

[0:35:50] Voice 10: red line as an area that we are going to be working on as this potential up zoning because

[0:35:58] Voice 10: we are working loosely toward the concept of intensifying and densifying the area that we're

[0:36:06] Voice 10: working on because we're working toward housing and services in this area so i'm wondering if

[0:36:13] Voice 10: that that's generally just what we're trying to get like what exactly are we trying to get an

[0:36:17] Voice 10: agreement on that we agree or disagree that this boundary is an acceptable boundary just for study

[0:36:24] Voice 10: or is it for implementation?

[0:36:26] Voice 10: If it's just for study,

[0:36:27] Voice 10: I don't see anything wrong with us studying

[0:36:30] Voice 10: right up to the boundaries,

[0:36:31] Voice 10: because if we decide that for some reason,

[0:36:34] Voice 10: certain parts of it shouldn't be implemented

[0:36:37] Voice 10: as an area that's open to density,

[0:36:40] Voice 10: then we could kind of get into that later.

[0:36:41] Voice 10: So I'm just wondering,

[0:36:42] Voice 10: is it just something we're approving

[0:36:44] Voice 10: for the purposes of our study is my question.

[0:36:48] Voice 15: Louisa?

[0:36:50] Voice 2: Okay, it's a great question and thank you.

[0:36:52] Voice 2: I just want to get back to sharing the map again is that a

[0:37:00] Voice 15: is that a yes or a no I

[0:37:02] Voice 2: just want to

[0:37:03] Voice 2: explain uh incorrect it's just for analysis it's just for study uh that's why that's why we were

[0:37:09] Voice 2: saying it could change because it's through the research and analysis we might determine we need

[0:37:15] Voice 2: to incorporate more area or reduce the area so it's really just for study but we need to know

[0:37:22] Voice 2: how far do we need to go so that's why we proposed the map earlier on and then it got and there were

[0:37:30] Voice 2: some questions about how we determined the maps and if you don't mind chair I just want to go

[0:37:36] Voice 2: through this really quickly for a second because there's a new member on board the blue area is the

[0:37:43] Voice 2: outer study outermost area for us to study and the area between the green and the blue we consider

[0:37:51] Voice 2: that as potentially it's a transition area and potentially a lot of it within those area will

[0:37:58] Voice 2: be protected because it's a lot of the ALR's destinations and the green area is the potentially

[0:38:08] Voice 2: Essentially, it's where we look at a lot of the changes, the density or sort of the containment area.

[0:38:15] Voice 2: And the red line, the red boundary is the village area.

[0:38:19] Voice 2: And through the task force discussion, this could change.

[0:38:24] Voice 2: The task force may feel the village area, the boundaries should expand or reduce.

[0:38:30] Voice 2: So this is just totally for study.

[0:38:34] Voice 2: At least we get an

[0:38:35] Voice 2: idea of the baseline.

[0:38:36] Voice 2: Thank you.

[0:38:37] Voice 15: Thank you.

[0:38:38] Voice 15: I'll go after John go ahead John sure

[0:38:44] Voice 11: I'm I guess I'd like to speak to the green boundary

[0:38:47] Voice 11: and I guess it's partly a question that is that you know when we looked at all those other local

[0:38:52] Voice 11: area plans there were maps that showed residential commercial industrial and kind of OCP designations

[0:38:59] Voice 11: for those areas and I'm presuming that we have to hone in on that at some point but and I think

[0:39:06] Voice 11: it might be something like the green area because i'm presuming that we're going to look at more

[0:39:11] Voice 11: than just the red area but i've always had a concern about the fact that whenever we look

[0:39:16] Voice 11: at maps of ganges we have this big kind of hole in the center which is the alr land and you know

[0:39:22] Voice 11: we have in on the other north side of rainbow road we have you know schools we have our recreation

[0:39:28] Voice 11: center um when we want to look at mobility and connectivity and everything um you know how can

[0:39:36] Voice 11: we not look at getting to the school getting to the recreation center and i know there's always

[0:39:41] Voice 11: a tendency to stay away from al you know the alr lands are sacrosanct and we don't uh kind of

[0:39:47] Voice 11: generally plan for them but um so my suggestion is really i think that the green area should be

[0:39:52] Voice 11: the continuation of athens road going straight down so that all those major community facilities

[0:39:59] Voice 11: on the north side of rainbow are in the village area um and uh you know i could also see us even

[0:40:06] Voice 11: been thinking about extending uh it out to include the hospital which is you know a very important

[0:40:11] Voice 11: community facility uh and i'm wondering so there's i guess there's three areas i'm looking at and that

[0:40:16] Voice 11: is the the big gap in the middle there which is i i would say the extension of atkins road right down

[0:40:23] Voice 11: uh all the way down to the connect to the other green line uh could be considered and um the

[0:40:31] Voice 11: hospital area could be considered and you know why aren't we including mobis and the uh the

[0:40:37] Voice 11: harbour house so those are my suggestions in terms of that boundary and i think i would like to feel

[0:40:44] Voice 11: that we have a bit of a common understanding that when we get to it the there's going to

[0:40:49] Voice 11: be an area we have to define where we look at land uses and where the where the map boundary

[0:40:54] Voice 11: ends. And I'm suggesting it's the green area as modified.

[0:40:59] Voice 15: I totally agree with that.

[0:41:03] Voice 15: And I also wanted to add as a commenter that the, is it the blue, that I think Ganges is a

[0:41:13] Voice 15: harbor village. And that was a comment I wanted to make on the study plan elements that we should

[0:41:20] Voice 15: should add the harbor as an item. And if it's a harbor village, then why not extend the

[0:41:27] Voice 15: blue line to include a little more of Churchill and area to kind of encompass the harbor.

[0:41:35] Voice 15: So that would be another proposed change I'd make. And I really like your ideas of including

[0:41:41] Voice 15: the hospital area and running it down Atkins to include those areas. Jenny?

[0:41:49] Voice 10: but at the same time because there's elements that i agree with and disagree with and so each

[0:41:58] Voice 10: person in this task force also would would agree or disagree um we could accept this map as presented

[0:42:08] Voice 10: as a preliminary way that we are going to work and then this can be one of our items for us to

[0:42:15] Voice 10: work on because although I wouldn't want to exclude anything so with what Robin's saying

[0:42:22] Voice 10: definitely I would love to see the harbor brought in I'd love to see Churchill you know more further

[0:42:29] Voice 10: up because there's kind of like a general employment area that in a place that's connected

[0:42:33] Voice 10: to boating or you know engine repair just kind of incorporate that definitely broaden it if we

[0:42:41] Voice 10: we feel like we we can manage all that i think it's it's a good idea but i i wouldn't reject

[0:42:47] Voice 10: necessarily the map um because it's good to even just accept something that we can look at

[0:42:54] Voice 10: that we're working with as a as a changeable you know what i mean it's like if we're accepting it

[0:43:00] Voice 10: like okay this is set in stone then we have to talk a lot before we'd want to say that but

[0:43:05] Voice 10: But if we're accepting it, that this is just a, this is something changeable, like we're

[0:43:10] Voice 10: already seeing changes, or we could maybe accept it next meeting with changes that we

[0:43:15] Voice 10: would agree on, like to really super include the harbor, include the hospital, just like

[0:43:20] Voice 10: what these suggestions are that you and John had.

[0:43:24] Voice 10: I mean, that's not a bad idea, but I hope we will accept something so we can move forward.

[0:43:30] Voice 10: And you know what I mean?

[0:43:31] Voice 10: like rather than be on administrative stuff all the time just really move into the what we really

[0:43:37] Voice 10: want to get into thanks thanks

[0:43:40] Voice 15: david did you have your hand up before me uh

[0:43:43] Voice 5: yeah i did you can go

[0:43:45] Voice 5: first though oh

[0:43:46] Voice 15: i was just gonna put it out and it said we accept the map as a draft study planning

[0:43:56] Voice 15: map with the changes that john and i suggested oh

[0:44:01] Voice 5: well some of us will have other uh suggestions

[0:44:03] Voice 5: um and i'm uh to to your point and to jenny's point though i i will change my stance and of

[0:44:12] Voice 5: course everybody can vote uh the other way then i might vote anyways but uh as long as it's soft i

[0:44:18] Voice 5: I think that the way it says draft now, I mean, just a little wording change doesn't make a big difference to how that is.

[0:44:33] Voice 5: And then in terms of John's suggestion, I think it makes sense.

[0:44:38] Voice 5: but uh in in jenny's point on you know the harbor area and extending i don't understand the lower

[0:44:45] Voice 5: right boundary uh of this um i think i have to understand a bit more about the sewage and water

[0:44:52] Voice 5: implications to have a more wholesome discussion um but there's a lot of harbor that's kind of

[0:45:00] Voice 5: south and east that's not really incorporated arguably to the sailing club and i don't know

[0:45:06] Voice 5: know what sacred cows are involved in all these areas. The hospital, yeah, why isn't the hospital

[0:45:15] Voice 5: part of the green area? Anyhow, but softer language would get me closer.

[0:45:22] Voice 15: Thank you. It looks like

[0:45:24] Voice 15: Lisa has a comment.

[0:45:26] Voice 2: Yeah, we just saw our legal advisors join in. And so without taking too much

[0:45:31] Voice 2: time and or pressuring the task force the just to point out the resolution it's actually clearly

[0:45:38] Voice 2: say it's only for the purpose of discussion on both so this has been really great discussion

[0:45:44] Voice 2: and that's what we're really looking forward to it so if the task force feel comfortable enough to

[0:45:51] Voice 2: approve it that's what we would do we'll keep bringing it back in the following meetings for

[0:45:57] Voice 2: discussion and if not we can table that and then bring it back again until you're comfortable with

[0:46:03] Voice 2: it either way is fine with us but i just want to let you know we need to stop the uh legal q a soon

[0:46:10] Voice 2: thank you okay

[0:46:11] Voice 15: david thank you lisa david and welcome

[0:46:13] Voice 15: sebastian and then i see you mike oh hi

[0:46:16] Voice 5: sebastian uh so real quick one then um so real soft language that's great louisa can we make

[0:46:22] Voice 5: the blue a dotted line that would reinforce for me that it's fuzzy yeah

[0:46:28] Voice 15: okay and mike did you have a

[0:46:31] Voice 15: quick comment well

[0:46:32] Voice 12: yeah i wanted to add on to what david said there that um the south end of the

[0:46:37] Voice 12: harbor is not included we have a lot of commercial properties on fulford ganges that go all the way

[0:46:42] Voice 12: up to bettis road and beyond bettis where you end up with the sailing club but we have housing on

[0:46:49] Voice 12: both sides. We have commercial zones on both sides of the road. We have the Seabreeze Hotel, etc.

[0:46:56] Voice 12: I would like to see the Green Line become dotted as well and even adjusted based on some of the

[0:47:05] Voice 12: comments that have been made, but we need to point out this is preliminary. It's a draft and it is not

[0:47:11] Voice 12: not solid. I would prefer we not vote on it until after we've talked to legal counsel. We can table

[0:47:19] Voice 12: it until later in the meeting, and I would suggest we do that since legal counsel is waiting for us.

[0:47:26] Voice 10: All my last thing I would say is I'd like to see both the green and blue be dotted lines.

[0:47:32] Voice 15: All right. I think we have agreement all throughout on dotted lines and draft preliminary

[0:47:36] Voice 15: Preliminary is the language up top for study.

[0:47:41] Voice 12: And sounds good.

[0:47:42] Voice 12: I want to add one more thing, and I hate to interrupt, but Louisa, I mean, you threw this

[0:47:47] Voice 12: on us with the resolution that you put up on the screen.

[0:47:50] Voice 12: We saw the wording of the resolution, but we don't have a copy of it in front of us,

[0:47:55] Voice 12: so we have nothing to refer to.

[0:47:57] Voice 12: So I think that's unfortunately pushing a little hard, and we need to back off.

[0:48:03] Voice 12: and let's go to legal counsel now and continue after all

[0:48:09] Voice 15: right good suggestion mike when we

[0:48:12] Voice 15: look at the agenda we have legal uh discussion until 11 45 so at 11 45 i guess we will

[0:48:25] Voice 15: So try

[0:48:27] Voice 15: to save 10 minutes to revisit the boundaries.

[0:48:34] Voice 15: So let's see what we can discuss in legal

[0:48:39] Voice 15: and see if it can even take less time than we anticipated.

[0:48:43] Voice 15: Welcome, Alyssa.

[0:48:44] Voice 15: Thank you.

[0:48:48] Voice 1: I guess it's still morning.

[0:48:49] Voice 1: Good morning.

[0:48:51] Voice 13: Hi there.

[0:48:52] Voice 1: Hi.

[0:48:53] Voice 1: So just a little bit of background before we kind of jump into everything.

[0:49:00] Voice 1: um so uh i am legal counsel uh for the islands trust our our firm and i'm not here to um

[0:49:10] Voice 1: provide legal advice today um what i'm here is to do is just to give you a legal seminar

[0:49:19] Voice 1: and i give a lot of these seminars uh some to uh uh local trust committees uh other elected

[0:49:28] Voice 1: officials, because our firm does represent local governments across BC. And so a lot of the things

[0:49:35] Voice 1: that I'm going to be chatting with you about, I have given many seminars on. And they are

[0:49:46] Voice 1: points that are important to remember. And they do get repeated quite often, because

[0:49:52] Voice 1: because there are some just kind of basic principles in the legislation

[0:50:01] Voice 1: that have to be kept in mind when we're having meetings and whatnot.

[0:50:06] Voice 1: So the way we had kind of set it up, and Louisa, it's not clear to me if

[0:50:11] Voice 1: the committee was given the booklet that I sent you?

[0:50:16] Voice 1: No, I can send that out after the meeting.

[0:50:20] Voice 1: okay uh because they're i'm just going to be referring i'll try not to bore you i get it

[0:50:24] Voice 1: lawyers can be boring and talking about various

[0:50:28] Voice 2: stories but elisa i don't mean to interrupt uh

[0:50:31] Voice 2: you might have to resend that to me i i wasn't aware that i was supposed to distribute and i

[0:50:36] Voice 2: don't know what

[0:50:37] Voice 2: you're referencing so appreciate that you can

[0:50:39] Voice 1: send it to me okay um so i will keep

[0:50:43] Voice 1: that in mind so that i'm not uh taking you to something that you don't have in front of you

[0:50:49] Voice 1: um but as far as the the uh the topics that i just want to um give some comments on today and

[0:50:56] Voice 1: then i'm i'm going to leave it uh hopefully lots of time for some questions just general questions

[0:51:01] Voice 1: again i'm not here giving you legal advice but i can tell you uh my thoughts on you know these

[0:51:08] Voice 1: this is what the bylaw and the legislation say um and so as a starting point uh just the basics

[0:51:17] Voice 1: that you may already be aware of,

[0:51:19] Voice 1: but maybe we never think about it,

[0:51:20] Voice 1: is how is this particular kind of commission

[0:51:25] Voice 1: being established?

[0:51:27] Voice 1: And how are you here making recommendations

[0:51:32] Voice 1: and in what context?

[0:51:33] Voice 1: And that does come out of the Local Government Act

[0:51:36] Voice 1: and it's applicable to the Islands Trust

[0:51:42] Voice 1: and local trust committees through the Islands Trust Act.

[0:51:45] Voice 1: Act. And the reason why I mentioned that is because there are specific provisions in the

[0:51:54] Voice 1: Local Government Act that require some legal requirements in order for you to be established

[0:52:02] Voice 1: and to function. And so without appreciating you don't have the section in front of you,

[0:52:10] Voice 1: it's basically section 461 of the Local Government Act. And you'll, in the package I put together,

[0:52:16] Voice 1: you'll have it just for your reference later um but that's what establishes these types of

[0:52:21] Voice 1: commissions they're advisory planning commissions and um they are established by bylaw and in the

[0:52:28] Voice 1: context of the ons trust the local trust committee um and it's to advise uh the local trust committee

[0:52:36] Voice 1: on specific matters that are being referred um to you um and so in that context the parts that

[0:52:46] Voice 1: that I'm gonna be talking about today

[0:52:47] Voice 1: is the by-law specifically is required

[0:52:50] Voice 1: to set up procedures governing the commission

[0:52:53] Voice 1: as well as the terms of referral.

[0:52:56] Voice 1: The other legal requirements in the legislation

[0:53:00] Voice 1: is that minutes must be kept of all meetings

[0:53:04] Voice 1: and available to the public if they request them.

[0:53:07] Voice 1: And if you are considering an amendment

[0:53:11] Voice 1: for an official community plan

[0:53:12] Voice 1: or a by-law like the land use by-law

[0:53:15] Voice 1: or the issuance of a permit like a development permit if you are providing recommendations on

[0:53:21] Voice 1: those types of matters you are required to give the applicant the opportunity to be heard at your

[0:53:28] Voice 1: meeting so with those basic statutory requirements there is then the bylaw which I'm sure you're

[0:53:38] Voice 1: familiar with which is also in the booklet but the bylaw establishing um these these commissions

[0:53:46] Voice 1: are is bylaw 467 salt spring island local trust committee bylaw 467 and so that should be being

[0:53:53] Voice 1: referred to because that is again in the context of your processes the procedures that must be

[0:54:00] Voice 1: followed. And the basis for the recommendations that you're going to be providing. So in that

[0:54:10] Voice 1: context, there's a couple things, one in particular, that's quite important to keep in mind

[0:54:16] Voice 1: is in the bylaw, it requires the commission to ensure that they comply with the rules of

[0:54:25] Voice 1: procedural fairness in the legislation. And when we talk about the rules of procedural fairness,

[0:54:31] Voice 1: And again, I'm not going to completely bore you in the legal realm of this, although I do spend a lot of time in court on these matters, is about ensuring that your processes are open and transparent to the public because you are acting in the context of for a public body in the public interest.

[0:54:53] Voice 1: And so some of the governing principles of procedural fairness that the Commission is required to follow is ensuring, one, notice of meetings.

[0:55:09] Voice 1: And this is applicable to all local governments. You must give notice of when you're having a meeting to the public so the public could attend and watch.

[0:55:16] Voice 1: watch. Two, giving an opportunity to be heard for those who have the right to be heard. And again,

[0:55:25] Voice 1: in the context of your work, the only statutory requirement to give someone the opportunity to

[0:55:32] Voice 1: be heard is the applicant in the context of a permit or an official community plan or a bylaw

[0:55:39] Voice 1: amendment. I do see in the bylaw, you can also if one of the members, one of the commission members

[0:55:49] Voice 1: request to hear from a member of the public or somebody else, then you would also allow them the

[0:55:56] Voice 1: opportunity to comment. And then the third is about the right to an impartial decision maker.

[0:56:06] Voice 1: And then again, in the context of your work, you're providing recommendations to the local trust committee. So it's an impartial recommendation maker, that you aren't biased in the matter, you don't have a conflict that's going to taint your view in the recommendation you ultimately provide.

[0:56:27] Voice 1: by. So with those basic principles of procedural fairness, that's why I'm talking to you about

[0:56:36] Voice 1: some of these matters that again, I've mentioned, I've had given many legal seminars to many local

[0:56:41] Voice 1: governments in respect of. Before I kind of jump into, because I know you don't have the bylaw in

[0:56:49] Voice 1: front of you, but there is certain requirements in the bylaw regarding notice of meetings.

[0:56:53] Voice 1: things, but that I think from the questions that I received of what perhaps you were interested in

[0:57:00] Voice 1: hearing from is about when is a meeting a meeting? Are we having a meeting right now, right? And

[0:57:09] Voice 1: when can we meet and when can we discuss things and what can we discuss?

[0:57:14] Voice 1: And there is lots of cases on when is a meeting a meeting, but the basic, I guess, underlying

[0:57:23] Voice 1: principle to that again is um the legislation and it's uh section 89 of the community charter

[0:57:32] Voice 1: again i appreciate you don't have it in front of you um but it it is applicable to you because

[0:57:40] Voice 1: through various links but um the section provides that not only is the open meeting rule applicable

[0:57:47] Voice 1: to elected officials like local trust committees,

[0:57:53] Voice 1: trust council, municipal council, regional district boards.

[0:57:59] Voice 1: It's also applicable to committees and advisory bodies.

[0:58:06] Voice 1: And for you as an advisory body,

[0:58:09] Voice 1: the legislation specifically links

[0:58:12] Voice 1: the open meeting rule requirements to your meetings.

[0:58:17] Voice 1: and so what that means is that you have to have your meetings uh you have to give notice to the

[0:58:27] Voice 1: public and they must be in in the public realm and the purpose for that uh the reason for the rule

[0:58:36] Voice 1: is again to ensure the public uh can view the process that it's open and transparent

[0:58:43] Voice 1: transparent, and that the public can see that what's being discussed, what's being recommended,

[0:58:51] Voice 1: even if they don't have a right to actually speak, they have a right to hear. And so I know

[0:58:59] Voice 1: one of the questions that's kind of come up is, and I get this question quite often as well,

[0:59:07] Voice 1: when is something considered a meeting? And some of the cases that have explored this,

[0:59:13] Voice 1: I think may surprise you in in the context of the courts have held that a meeting is um

[0:59:22] Voice 1: when official acts could be being taken not that they are being taken but they could be taken

[0:59:32] Voice 1: and um so any kind of discussion like the discussion maybe you were just having but

[0:59:41] Voice 1: But also in the context, if you were having that discussion outside this meeting, any form of discussion that's moving the process along and informing your particular recommendation that you may be making is considered a meeting.

[1:00:01] Voice 1: and uh it doesn't require you to actually uh take action on that for it to be a meeting

[1:00:08] Voice 1: so if you said to me well we're not actually making a recommendation right now

[1:00:13] Voice 1: so it shouldn't matter if we just discuss it uh you know outside at a party um the the case law

[1:00:24] Voice 1: around it has has said no that that that's not acceptable because what it does is prevents uh

[1:00:33] Voice 1: it's circumventing the open meeting rule that's saying anytime you have a meeting you have a

[1:00:39] Voice 1: quorum and you're having a discussion regarding the matter the public should be able to to hear

[1:00:45] Voice 1: and watch that so just to give you a few examples of that um some of the cases that came out of

[1:00:55] Voice 1: of kind of when is a meeting a meeting.

[1:00:57] Voice 1: One was with respect to,

[1:01:02] Voice 1: and in the local government context,

[1:01:04] Voice 1: staff was giving a briefing to a municipal council

[1:01:08] Voice 1: in Yellowknife, this is a Yellowknife case,

[1:01:13] Voice 1: outside a scheduled meeting.

[1:01:15] Voice 1: So outside the schedule listed

[1:01:16] Voice 1: that there is a formal meeting,

[1:01:18] Voice 1: they were having these staff briefings

[1:01:21] Voice 1: giving an update to council.

[1:01:23] Voice 1: council. And in that context, the court said, no, that is a meeting and you should be having that

[1:01:31] Voice 1: open to the public. It's not proper to be having those casual conversations, even if it's just a

[1:01:40] Voice 1: briefing from staff outside in that context, because all of council's there and a decision

[1:01:45] Voice 1: could be made, even if it's not being made. Another one of the leading cases kind of in this area

[1:01:52] Voice 1: is from Ottawa, and this is a particular one where there's a social gathering.

[1:02:00] Voice 1: There is a working retreat at a resort where the majority of municipal council are there

[1:02:08] Voice 1: with some staff. And again, there's a discussion of business matters. And the court finds in that

[1:02:19] Voice 1: context that's also a meeting that should be open to the public so in that context what does that

[1:02:28] Voice 1: mean um what what then can you actually talk about outside where this kind of forum you're in right

[1:02:37] Voice 1: now um and my comments on on that and i'll certainly i'll open it up to you if you have

[1:02:45] Voice 1: questions while i'm talking about this right now but um discussions between outside this

[1:02:52] Voice 1: actual scheduled meeting that's been given notice and is in the public realm should be avoided

[1:03:01] Voice 1: absolutely when you have a quorum when you have a quorum of uh the commission there

[1:03:07] Voice 1: there, you clearly could be making recommendations or moving the process along to make a

[1:03:16] Voice 1: recommendation because you have a quorum. But I would say even in the context of when you don't

[1:03:22] Voice 1: have a quorum, you have to be thinking about, well, are you circumventing that rule by simply

[1:03:29] Voice 1: having four get together and have a discussion about it, and then another four get together and

[1:03:34] Voice 1: and have a discussion about it outside the public realm.

[1:03:38] Voice 1: So yeah, the comment I'll have on that is,

[1:03:43] Voice 1: and then I'll take a question is about,

[1:03:45] Voice 1: then you really should generally be avoiding

[1:03:50] Voice 1: what you've been established and referred to

[1:03:53] Voice 1: to make a recommendation on,

[1:03:55] Voice 1: should be being done in the context of this form of meeting

[1:04:00] Voice 1: and not as a side thing with less number of members so I see you had a question there

[1:04:06] Voice 1: yeah

[1:04:08] Voice 15: no I was just curious because you you're providing case examples where you have elected

[1:04:13] Voice 15: counselors who are obviously part of the government structure and we have been chosen by

[1:04:22] Voice 15: staff and some elected people and so I'm just wondering are there any examples with commissions

[1:04:30] Voice 15: like us we're not elected councillors yeah

[1:04:35] Voice 1: and so the cases I'm referring to you're right there

[1:04:39] Voice 1: with respect to elected officials but the link on them and to tell you the truth there aren't

[1:04:46] Voice 1: that many cases regarding advisory planning commissions out there in total. But it's the

[1:04:55] Voice 1: legislation in BC that links your advisory body to, the legislation links advisory bodies must

[1:05:06] Voice 1: comply with that same rule. So whether you're the local trust committee or municipal council

[1:05:15] Voice 1: or Regional District Board or Advisory Planning Commission or some other committee that's been

[1:05:21] Voice 1: created by and appointed by elected officials, you have to comply with the open meeting rules.

[1:05:30] Voice 15: Thank you. Mike, did you have a question?

[1:05:36] Voice 12: Yes. Thank you very much for your presentation, Lisa, and helping us understand this,

[1:05:42] Voice 12: by the way, and for your time. I wanted to ask, I guess, a very specific point or two,

[1:05:47] Voice 12: and you may be or may not be aware of these other island issues, Elisa, but it's my understanding

[1:05:57] Voice 12: that South Pender Island has an advisory planning commission that was appointed by the trustees

[1:06:04] Voice 12: and that they do not have staff attend their meetings. They do not have anything other than

[1:06:10] Voice 12: a minute taker and they've they've sort of developed this on their own and how is that

[1:06:17] Voice 12: legal or is it illegal and i know you said we can't ask you for for uh your your legal opinion

[1:06:24] Voice 12: on this necessarily but if they can do that i'm wondering why we can't have that freedom as well

[1:06:32] Voice 1: yeah my general comment and i i won't speak specifically to a particular advisory planning

[1:06:38] Voice 1: commission one because i don't have the specific bylaw uh establishing a particular commission in

[1:06:44] Voice 1: front of me but that aside uh for any advisory planning commission in british columbia that

[1:06:52] Voice 1: what i'm talking about the open meeting rule applies and so whether some someone is following

[1:06:59] Voice 1: that rule um that may be a question um and that's why these legal seminars are just important to

[1:07:08] Voice 1: have because they're reminders right because it may seem okay well we're just simply giving

[1:07:14] Voice 1: recommendations uh we're we're just much more informal we're just going to have a discussion

[1:07:20] Voice 1: over here and that's why i'm just kind of coming back to some of the basics of it's about um open

[1:07:28] Voice 1: open being open and transparent to the public and also that it doesn't undermine the whole public

[1:07:34] Voice 1: process and so in the context of and maybe I should have mentioned this at the beginning but

[1:07:41] Voice 1: I think you already know this given your role your role is as an advisory body and so if you've been

[1:07:48] Voice 1: created to a matter has been referred to you to provide a recommendation on and you give your

[1:07:55] Voice 1: recommendation to the local trust committee as you know the local trust committee can accept

[1:08:04] Voice 1: that recommendation they don't need to follow that recommendation they can make whatever decision

[1:08:08] Voice 1: they want to make and and and make whatever final decision at the end of the process but the whole

[1:08:17] Voice 1: process in the commission meeting and having a discussion and coming to that recommendation

[1:08:24] Voice 1: recommendation the local trust committee considering that recommendation and then

[1:08:29] Voice 1: making whatever decision in the context if we're talking about you know an amendment to an official

[1:08:34] Voice 1: community plan or a land use bylaw it's all uh in the whole process is for the public to have

[1:08:43] Voice 1: confidence in that right that we can see the whole process and that uh it's being done in a fair

[1:08:50] Voice 1: manner and and so i think that's kind of the key basis whichever commission we're talking about

[1:08:56] Voice 1: so

[1:08:57] Voice 12: that's

[1:08:58] Voice 1: a requirement can

[1:08:59] Voice 12: i ask then um is it possible for us as a group if we wish to

[1:09:08] Voice 12: reorganize and not as an appointed commission from the two trustees local trustees

[1:09:16] Voice 12: as an outside group can we not make recommendations to our local trust committee

[1:09:20] Voice 12: because I believe that's legal. And we would not have to necessarily follow the open meeting rules.

[1:09:26] Voice 12: And I'll use an example in place. Transition Salt Spring, which is, I would argue, an NGO,

[1:09:33] Voice 12: has been making recommendations to the local trust committee. They don't have open meetings.

[1:09:39] Voice 12: They are within their own group. But they are an NGO. And I don't know where that falls in the

[1:09:45] Voice 12: legal ramifications here, but if we wanted to have less viewing of the process and less

[1:09:56] Voice 12: conflict with regard to all these other agencies and inputs, are we able to

[1:10:06] Voice 12: make a resolution that we ask the local trust committee

[1:10:11] Voice 12: committee to allow us to be unappointed as a commission, as a advisory body, and go on our own?

[1:10:22] Voice 1: I guess the short answer to that is no, in the context of the creation as an advisory body

[1:10:32] Voice 1: and the establishment of it comes from the Local Government Act. And it must be established by

[1:10:40] Voice 1: bylaw. So the Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee has a bylaw establishing this advisory

[1:10:49] Voice 1: planning commission to make certain recommendations for them to consider. So outside that legal basis,

[1:10:57] Voice 1: there's no basis for the advisory body. In the context of, and you may be thinking,

[1:11:02] Voice 1: obviously, with respect to, for example, considering if the Local Trust Committee

[1:11:08] Voice 1: is considering an official an amendment to the official community plan or an amendment to land

[1:11:14] Voice 1: use bylaw and there's a public hearing um the public's entitled to uh state their views there's

[1:11:23] Voice 1: an opportunity to be heard and there might be uh incorporated societies that make their views heard

[1:11:28] Voice 1: but that's much more than in that context okay

[1:11:33] Voice 15: yeah

[1:11:34] Voice 1: thank

[1:11:35] Voice 15: you i thanks um i guess the question

[1:11:38] Voice 15: that many of us were wondering is okay so what is the process by which we can have additional

[1:11:44] Voice 15: information gathering meetings because we don't feel like the process is moving very quickly or

[1:11:49] Voice 15: with very much depth of um sort of information sharing and we would like to have more frequent

[1:11:56] Voice 15: meetings and if some staff can't make those more frequent meetings is that you know is that a

[1:12:03] Voice 15: problem. So, I guess, what's the process by which we hold committee meetings on some of these

[1:12:11] Voice 15: elements to gather information more frequently than these heavy on the staff attendance

[1:12:22] Voice 15: advisory commission monthly meetings? Can we publicly advertise those and add meetings? And

[1:12:34] Voice 15: these to be an official commission meeting yeah

[1:12:40] Voice 1: and i mean i think that becomes a question

[1:12:42] Voice 1: an internal question also about resources right because at some point um whatever public body

[1:12:49] Voice 1: how many meetings can you possibly have and what are your resources to be able to um

[1:12:55] Voice 1: set up those meetings and um you know in what context and it may depend on what matter we're

[1:13:03] Voice 1: talking about maybe some matter requires more meetings um as a result of what it is because

[1:13:11] Voice 1: it's a massive proposal or something but in the context of uh the bylaw it does require there to

[1:13:18] Voice 1: be a secretary which is uh um who is the secretary is that you louisa i think it's sarah oh sarah okay

[1:13:29] Voice 1: Okay so there is you do need to have a secretary and that's usually again appointed by the local

[1:13:38] Voice 1: trust committee I'm just looking at the bylaw here that so that's not a member of the commission

[1:13:44] Voice 1: right there usually it is usually an employee of the islands trust to take the minutes of the

[1:13:51] Voice 1: meeting that are then available to the public and so it might be in that context as far as

[1:13:59] Voice 1: resources, how many meetings you truly can have.

[1:14:03] Voice 15: Thank you. So that would be something I think

[1:14:07] Voice 15: many of us are interested in. And then the other question that came up last meeting was there was

[1:14:13] Voice 15: a proposal for a weekend long retreat. Is that right, Eric? And did you want to sort of address

[1:14:21] Voice 15: that? That's something that we'd like to organize. Did you have anything

[1:14:29] Voice 15: to say on that, Eric?

[1:14:31] Voice 15: or um

[1:14:33] Voice 7: i'm sure i'll i'll uh am i can you hear me hello can you hear me yeah yes so um a couple of

[1:14:44] Voice 7: things i guess on this i just i'm going to jump in first on the quorum question because this is

[1:14:49] Voice 7: something that uh came up before uh what i understand and certainly the cases that you

[1:14:57] Voice 7: presented that show people meeting outside of a public meeting making decisions or

[1:15:03] Voice 7: or speaking to applications that are in the process and that have the ability to have an

[1:15:11] Voice 7: official action because there is a quorum less than a quorum uh i i'm not aware of anything

[1:15:18] Voice 7: thing that is preventing members of a committee or a commission like this meeting in less than a

[1:15:27] Voice 7: quorum outside of an official meeting now that's um so that that question of if there's uh 11

[1:15:35] Voice 7: members in a in a commission can five members meet at any given time can five members meet as a

[1:15:42] Voice 7: a subcommittee outside of a regular meeting as long as they are not a quorum and they have no

[1:15:50] Voice 7: ability to actually to move something forward. If they're going to, out of whatever discussion

[1:15:56] Voice 7: that they've had, bring something forward to the commission for further discussion,

[1:16:04] Voice 7: I can see that once it hits the quorum level, then yeah, it's got to be in the public. But

[1:16:11] Voice 7: below a quorum level when two people as an example in this commission getting together outside of

[1:16:17] Voice 7: this to discuss any particular issue i i'm not aware of anything that would prevent that

[1:16:24] Voice 7: from a legal perspective is there can you can you maybe address that first and then that

[1:16:35] Voice 1: yeah and i mean uh in the context of some of it is just keeping in mind what's the point of

[1:16:42] Voice 1: even these rules right and if we're just trying to get around the rule why are we trying to do that

[1:16:48] Voice 1: and are we get are we then really um in trying to avoid that rule is that really what the intent is

[1:16:56] Voice 1: um you're right in that uh obviously a quorum is when you can make together a recommendation

[1:17:03] Voice 1: right if you don't have a quorum and same thing with municipal council or regional district boards

[1:17:10] Voice 1: or local trust committee if you don't have a quorum you wouldn't be able to make a decision

[1:17:15] Voice 1: um and it may be that in reality two members talk about the matter on the side right

[1:17:23] Voice 1: um the part that starts getting uh troubling is that you're trying to get around the rule

[1:17:32] Voice 1: the open meeting rule and letting the public see the actual process by creating committees

[1:17:39] Voice 1: less than quorum to move forward the process and the recommendations

[1:17:46] Voice 1: with not in the public realm right and so it's a it's difficult and again i'm not

[1:17:53] Voice 1: not to say where's the line right and the cases certainly that exist out there is where there's

[1:18:01] Voice 1: been a quorum and they've come to a decision and so if you have a retreat like you just mentioned

[1:18:07] Voice 1: and there is a quorum there that something moving the business along could result in

[1:18:14] Voice 1: in a recommendation even if it's not actually on the table that's problematic but what about

[1:18:20] Voice 1: if we're below quorum and i think it's going to depend in that context if it's just that we've

[1:18:26] Voice 1: created this to have less than quorum so that we can do our business without the public watching

[1:18:32] Voice 1: you know there's a problem there and the second point about these subcommittees is also

[1:18:40] Voice 1: in the context again of what's the purpose of the advisory planning commission it's been established

[1:18:45] Voice 1: established uh by bylaw to be of a certain number of members and to provide a certain

[1:18:51] Voice 1: recommendation in accordance with the terms of reference so creating subcommittees one where's

[1:18:57] Voice 1: your authority to do that to create these subcommittees without the uh local trust

[1:19:04] Voice 1: committee having giving you that authority to create those subcommittees but then those

[1:19:08] Voice 1: subcommittees if they were created and there's a quorum now if there's a subcommittee of five

[1:19:14] Voice 1: in a quorum of three those would still then be triggered by the open meeting rule right so there

[1:19:21] Voice 1: is going to be a concern there if that's really why you're trying to do that is to not have the

[1:19:27] Voice 1: open meetings okay

[1:19:30] Voice 7: if i may uh so just on the the weekend uh retreat idea that i put forward

[1:19:39] Voice 7: as a resolution for the last meeting i was comparing it to as an example in islands trust

[1:19:45] Voice 7: Trust Council meeting, where Islands Trust Council meets in formal session with 26 members

[1:19:53] Voice 7: over a two or three day period. And over that same two or three day period outside of the open

[1:20:00] Voice 7: meetings, trustees are speaking to each other on the various issues that are going on. It's not

[1:20:06] Voice 7: like we, when I was a trustee myself, it's not like we walked out of the door and said, okay,

[1:20:12] Voice 7: we can only talk about the weather. So that, I think that the, that question of, are we trying

[1:20:19] Voice 7: to avoid a rule? That's, I don't believe that's the case. I think the case, and certainly in this

[1:20:25] Voice 7: context, is that we're, we have a very, very broad topic in front of us, and a very, very broad task

[1:20:34] Voice 7: ask in front of us and the discussions i think that that need to happen can't be happening in

[1:20:42] Voice 7: two-hour sessions over a two-year period with any um any real potential of moving things forward

[1:20:50] Voice 7: so that uh from what i understand what you're saying is there is no legal rule against meeting

[1:20:57] Voice 7: meeting, as long as you don't have a quorum, and then the idea of a weekend retreat, as long as

[1:21:07] Voice 7: the groups that we're talking, as long as you weren't having a group on the side that was a

[1:21:12] Voice 7: quorum during a weekend retreat discussing something, then you're not having an action,

[1:21:17] Voice 7: you don't really need to meet the public meeting requirement. You get to a quorum level, yes,

[1:21:22] Voice 7: Yes, you have it. You have a formal meeting. And that would be, as I said, the example I'm using is like an Islands Trust Council two day, three day session.

[1:21:34] Voice 7: Yeah.

[1:21:34] Voice 1: And there's not going to be a bright line. It is going to depend on the facts. Right.

[1:21:40] Voice 1: Of what what's your specifically referencing. And so I can only just kind of give you some parameters of in the context of where the cases are at and what's the purpose of the rule to begin with. Right.

[1:21:51] Voice 1: Right. And so you're right with when when there are those broad meetings, of course, if there is, again, a quorum, if it's at a retreat even and you're moving business along, that's considered a meeting, whether you call it a meeting or not, where you have two out of, I don't, you know, two members out of an advisory planning commission of 11 members.

[1:22:20] Voice 1: having a discussion generally about the matter that's not likely going to be considered a meeting

[1:22:27] Voice 1: right i wouldn't call it a meeting that then would trigger that requirement but where you start

[1:22:36] Voice 1: saying well we're going to create two subcommittees of uh five each just so we're below the quorum

[1:22:42] Voice 1: and we're going to move along the discussion so we can come to a recommendation that might

[1:22:46] Voice 1: be getting too close, right? And it will depend again on the facts. So, you know, I appreciate

[1:22:53] Voice 1: there's going to be discussions, obviously, between members. I just would say, as a general

[1:22:59] Voice 1: kind of underlying principle, why do we have to meet in public to begin with? Just always keep

[1:23:05] Voice 1: that in mind. Does that feel right? And is that really, you know, meeting that? What's the purpose

[1:23:12] Voice 1: of that thanks

[1:23:14] Voice 15: Elisa I think we had David and then John and I do want to underscore I think

[1:23:18] Voice 15: the purpose of us asking you this is that we feel we have a large task and we're not being able to

[1:23:24] Voice 15: move forward very quickly because we're restricted to two hours a month and we feel restricted by the

[1:23:30] Voice 15: amount of staff time available to allow us to meet and really dive into these topics so we're

[1:23:36] Voice 15: searching for ways to serve serve our place better as volunteers okay so david and john yeah

[1:23:45] Voice 5: and and

[1:23:45] Voice 5: thanks robin uh and on the point of staff time not that uh we don't appreciate that the efforts

[1:23:53] Voice 5: that staff is putting forward here because they're really

[1:23:55] Voice 5: giving us the material by which we can have

[1:23:59] Voice 5: have a discussion um and well both Robin and Eric um you know spoken really well to this so

[1:24:07] Voice 5: you know basically how do we do the things that need to be done in the time we need to do them

[1:24:14] Voice 5: and I just wanted to ask about even in this meeting and you you came in on the tail end

[1:24:20] Voice 5: of a discussion about the the green blue and red areas um so staff has um done some work

[1:24:28] Voice 5: work outside of our meeting. I don't know how public their process is. And through their

[1:24:35] Voice 5: collective efforts, and there's quite a few of them as evidenced by this call, they come

[1:24:41] Voice 5: forward with some colors on a map and were asked to approve a resolution that they've

[1:24:49] Voice 5: actually drafted. And they're not even appointed on the commission. So I do scratch my head

[1:24:57] Voice 5: a bit because that's I think I think that on this particular topic we'd like the freedom to be able

[1:25:07] Voice 5: to do things like that so that we can actually move this process forward and we don't have to

[1:25:12] Voice 5: just rely on well a staff going to send us a new map and then explain to us why the map looks like

[1:25:19] Voice 5: that that's pretty inefficient I don't know if you can maybe not a recommendation but that's this

[1:25:32] Voice 5: is the kind of thing we need guidance on maybe

[1:25:35] Voice 15: it's a question for trustee grove on this process

[1:25:40] Voice 15: if he's um if he thinks and also trustee patrick if they would be willing to approve more frequent

[1:25:47] Voice 15: uh information gathering meetings um that would include a minute taker maybe that would satisfy

[1:25:54] Voice 15: some of our needs. Thanks Peter.

[1:26:00] Trustee Grove: And if I may, Elisa, what would that look like if we would

[1:26:07] Trustee Grove: suggest that? Would the information that's coming from that group be usable by the local trust

[1:26:13] Trustee Grove: committee?

[1:26:17] Voice 1: Sorry, what information?

[1:26:19] Trustee Grove: Well, if the local trust committee did indeed approve

[1:26:23] Trustee Grove: the committee meeting on its own but authorized the expense for the cost of a of a secretary

[1:26:32] Trustee Grove: of a minute taker um what would then that look like the information coming from that

[1:26:38] Trustee Grove: body um would that be uh usable by the local trust committee yeah

[1:26:48] Voice 1: so i'm just looking again

[1:26:49] Voice 1: back to uh the legislation and then the bylaw um as to whether you can even do that right because

[1:26:58] Voice 1: uh the the legislation requires that uh minutes of the meetings be kept and on request be made

[1:27:07] Voice 1: available to the public so that's the bare minimum requirement in the legislation

[1:27:10] Voice 1: legislation uh the bylaw provides uh i think in the context of the secretary that the local trust

[1:27:22] Voice 1: committee is to appoint the secretary uh and that that secretary is not to be a member of the the

[1:27:29] Voice 1: commission and the role uh performed uh the role the secretary is to be performed by an employer

[1:27:36] Voice 1: or contractor of the islands trust so those are your uh your current legal restrictions in that

[1:27:45] Voice 1: context now the same issue does i i would say i mean i certainly i'm sure even with within the

[1:27:54] Voice 1: islands trust because of the way also your geography is um even local trust committees

[1:28:01] Voice 1: don't have that many meetings, right?

[1:28:05] Voice 1: It's difficult sometimes to have numerous meetings

[1:28:08] Voice 1: because of, again, resources

[1:28:11] Voice 1: or in all of that in that context.

[1:28:14] Voice 1: And so staff do play an important role

[1:28:18] Voice 1: because at the administrative level,

[1:28:21] Voice 1: they're there putting the work together for you,

[1:28:25] Voice 1: the packages, the information,

[1:28:27] Voice 1: and peeling back some of that stuff

[1:28:30] Voice 1: to provide you to to look at and so i don't know in the context because i wasn't here for

[1:28:36] Voice 1: for the beginning part of what the map might be about and whatnot um but staff do play an

[1:28:42] Voice 1: important role in that context right and that's uh they're there uh to to um perform that function

[1:28:50] Voice 1: and so again it's going to be a balance about what's the resources and what you're expecting

[1:28:55] Voice 1: respecting versus what each rule is.

[1:29:01] Voice 15: Thank you. And I think John had his hand up. I'm sorry,

[1:29:05] Voice 15: did John, your previous hand up, was that regarding this?

[1:29:09] Trustee Grove: I'll let Peter finish if you'd like.

[1:29:13] Trustee Grove: Thanks. I mean, it would make me nervous. I mean, there is law and I'm not a lawyer,

[1:29:19] Trustee Grove: I'm a humble accountant, but if you're trying to do something to get around the law, that is

[1:29:24] Trustee Grove: illegal and it seems to me that what we would be doing is trying to do something which sort of to

[1:29:30] Trustee Grove: get around the law to get around the rules um so that makes me uncomfortable but um trust play an

[1:29:37] Trustee Grove: essential uh the staff play an essential role ensuring that the paperwork is done ensuring

[1:29:42] Trustee Grove: that the community is properly advised of meetings ensuring that there are proper records and by the

[1:29:47] Trustee Grove: way also then providing advice to the local trust committee based upon what they have heard and

[1:29:52] Trustee Grove: learned um and if they're not attending these meetings so they're obviously

[1:29:56] Trustee Grove: going to be um short changed in that regard

[1:30:00] Trustee Grove: Anyway, I'm not an expert, and that's why we have Alisa here, but it would make me nervous, I have to confess.

[1:30:07] Voice 15: And maybe we're just not asking the right question of Luisa and Rob, whether they're available for more information gathering meetings.

[1:30:18] Voice 15: Thanks, Luisa.

[1:30:24] Voice 15: Did you have a comment?

[1:30:25] Voice 15: I

[1:30:25] Voice 2: just want to address a couple of points.

[1:30:28] Voice 2: One is, first and foremost, I want to apologize about the resolution.

[1:30:32] Voice 2: It's my bad.

[1:30:33] Voice 2: I didn't even remember putting it in the packets to you.

[1:30:37] Voice 2: So I would never do that again.

[1:30:39] Voice 2: And the resolution should be really coming from the chair.

[1:30:43] Voice 2: So it's bad on my part.

[1:30:45] Voice 2: I would make sure to fix it.

[1:30:46] Voice 2: And we want you guys to have maximum amount of time for discussion.

[1:30:51] Voice 2: And I will be happy to work with you on the structure.

[1:30:55] Voice 2: If you don't want us to feed you information,

[1:30:58] Voice 2: we can take a side back and just kind of watch

[1:31:01] Voice 2: for the brainstorming and the discussion on your own.

[1:31:04] Voice 2: We want to make sure you have maximum time for discussion.

[1:31:07] Voice 2: So we'll be happy to work with you

[1:31:09] Voice 2: within the confines of the time you do have.

[1:31:12] Voice 2: From our perspective,

[1:31:13] Voice 2: we definitely recommend greatest transparency.

[1:31:17] Voice 2: And we do have a very limited time for resource.

[1:31:21] Voice 2: Even for me right now,

[1:31:22] Voice 2: managing the groups that I have has been really challenging.

[1:31:27] Voice 2: I am very behind on schedule.

[1:31:29] Voice 2: There are a lot of things behind the scene I'm responsible for.

[1:31:33] Voice 2: So additional meeting would be challenging, but I'll leave it to my manager.

[1:31:38] Voice 2: If it deems that we need to have more regular meetings, that's, I'm concerned about the

[1:31:44] Voice 2: be able to get the task done within the time that we committed to do.

[1:31:49] Voice 2: So, but with that being said, I just want you all to keep in mind that my role, I'll

[1:31:55] Voice 2: be happy to work with you to make sure you have maximum amount of time for discussions.

[1:32:00] Voice 2: You don't like the map, you don't have to approve the map. You don't like the vision statement,

[1:32:04] Voice 2: you don't have to approve that. So that helps for the discussion.

[1:32:11] Voice 15: Oh, thank you, Lisa. And I apologize if it, I don't think the intention of the group was

[1:32:16] Voice 15: at any point to disparage the wonderful information you've been gathering and sharing

[1:32:21] Voice 15: with us. It's extremely helpful and, in fact, it's one of the few things that's sort of advancing

[1:32:27] Voice 15: because we only have two hours for discussion and much of it is taken up with procedural

[1:32:32] Voice 15: confusion. So we definitely need more time to really get into this information so that we can

[1:32:40] Voice 15: all feel comfortable advising. And how we get there as a group is still a mystery, it seems,

[1:32:48] Voice 15: although the legal advice has been that we can offer a public meeting with a secretary and explore a topic and bring that information back to our monthly meeting if it is approved by the trustees.

[1:33:04] Voice 15: So we know that, and that's good new information. Are there any other questions? John, did you have a comment?

[1:33:12] Voice 15: comment i

[1:33:13] Voice 11: just wanted to quickly uh thanks uh thank lisa for a difficult topic and i wanted

[1:33:18] Voice 11: to just continue um explore at the it's a continuum i think of of advice here and at the other end of

[1:33:25] Voice 11: the continuum i just want to say that you know if i if i was at a social setting and run into another

[1:33:30] Voice 11: uh community member of that social setting uh we didn't plan the meeting uh to to advance any of

[1:33:36] Voice 11: the information or any of the business i'm going to feel pretty comfortable because i think this

[1:33:41] Voice 11: it's just natural i've sat on other commissions and you talk to the person about what's happening

[1:33:45] Voice 11: and you're not as two people moving anything forward i think that my opinion is very clear

[1:33:50] Voice 11: and i and quite frankly i wouldn't feel badly if i phoned up another member of the committee and

[1:33:54] Voice 11: said you know um let's get together for a coffee because you know we just want to talk about what's

[1:33:59] Voice 11: been happening and uh um again not having any ability in my opinion to move the business

[1:34:07] Voice 11: forward being two of a member of uh two of 10 or 11 um and quite frankly i'm when you know i i if

[1:34:14] Voice 11: there were three of us we got together i i still feel pretty comfortable with that so i just want

[1:34:19] Voice 11: to for my own uh satisfaction understand that uh you know we're we're not it is a it is a

[1:34:27] Voice 11: at the far end of the continuum we should feel comfortable and and i guess you're not asking

[1:34:35] Voice 11: you for legal advice but to to just advise if i'm off track here because i getting together with

[1:34:41] Voice 11: three people and just chatting about things uh i don't think uh seems to contradict what you told

[1:34:46] Voice 11: us and i just wondered if you could possibly give us some confirmation of that at the just those

[1:34:51] Voice 11: those things that happen at the other end of the continuum that are seem pretty minor to me yeah

[1:34:58] Voice 1: and again it's going to depend factually right because the oh you run into each other and you

[1:35:04] Voice 1: have a discussion about you know how something general about what was a you know your um what

[1:35:12] Voice 1: you're dealing with is is with your reality right if it is that you have organized to have

[1:35:21] Voice 1: you know just below quorum a group meet say yeah we think this we think we're on board for this

[1:35:29] Voice 1: recommendation and another just below core meet and say yeah we agree too and then another group

[1:35:37] Voice 1: meets of half and half of those and says yeah we agree then you're really truly moving along

[1:35:41] Voice 1: business right whereas if it's just two of you uh having a off the the cuff chat you're not moving

[1:35:50] Voice 1: along business right in the context of what your task is so it is going to be a judgment call there

[1:35:56] Voice 1: right and it's going to depend on the context of what we're talking about and so um i i know we

[1:36:04] Voice 1: don't live in a bubble you're never not going to run into each other and not i can't talk about

[1:36:10] Voice 1: absolutely anything to do with this subject matter that's not realistic right yeah

[1:36:15] Voice 15: it's a small

[1:36:15] Voice 15: island so um thank you i think david then mike all right

[1:36:20] Voice 5: um thanks alissa uh and and thanks john

[1:36:25] Voice 5: I also wanted to come back to echoing John.

[1:36:29] Voice 5: So I very much appreciate the work that staff has done thus far, including the draft resolution recommendations, because it's helping provide focus.

[1:36:42] Voice 5: And this discussion is all about how we move forward.

[1:36:48] Voice 5: So we're all concerned about that.

[1:36:51] Voice 5: that. We have a big challenge ahead of us. I'm getting some level of comfort through this

[1:36:59] Voice 5: discussion, although it's not perfect, but it's helpful to get that. And so, Louisa,

[1:37:04] Voice 5: don't apologize for what you've done. And it may be a necessity. I've looked at some of the OCPs

[1:37:14] Voice 5: from some of the other islands and our task appears to be orders of magnitude more challenging

[1:37:21] Voice 5: um than what some of the other islands have done in the past i can't speak to what they might be

[1:37:27] Voice 5: doing now but just reading through the ocps and just even looking at these three colored lines

[1:37:34] Voice 5: that's way more than they had to deal with elsewhere um so you know uh so let's say if

[1:37:41] Voice 5: Some of us stumble over each other at coffee and do what staff has done here and say, you're right. Maybe we should even draft a resolution. Don't know how it's going to go over, but how do we move this forward and satisfy both our mandate and our legal requirements, which this is all about the community in the end.

[1:38:08] Voice 5: And we don't speak for the community, but we can hopefully help the community in the work we're

[1:38:19] Voice 5: doing.

[1:38:20] Voice 14: Thanks, David. Mike? I

[1:38:24] Voice 12: guess this is a directed question to Alyssa. I'm still hearing,

[1:38:29] Voice 12: in my opinion, a differentiation between a quorum setting and a non-quorum setting. Now,

[1:38:39] Voice 12: Now, the second part of that is that if it is these groups are formed that are under quorum and it's on purpose to get around a law, I would understand everyone's concern.

[1:38:54] Voice 12: I don't think that's what we're asking about.

[1:38:56] Voice 12: I first of all believe that we want to have subcommittees, or if not a formal titled subcommittee, we want to have groups of, say, three to meet on a specific subject, not two or three groups of three meeting on the same subject and then coming back to the main meeting where we do have a quorum.

[1:39:20] Voice 12: I mean, my thinking was that if three of us want to tackle art and culture and how we help display it and create it in Ganges, and three of us attack the economic development side of things, and three of us say, want to talk about the harbor and how it becomes involved in the community.

[1:39:42] Voice 12: And then as a group, we say, as an informal group, we then bring that to the actual meeting with the quorum of the entire task force, and then it's spoken about in public and discussed.

[1:39:58] Voice 12: It's not recommended, it's not, we're just bringing it to them, but we've actually been able to get more done because we've been working in smaller groups and on different subjects.

[1:40:09] Voice 12: And I'm just wondering if that kind of a thing is, you know, if we're not trying, I don't think we're trying to cut ourselves around the law. I think what we're trying to do is to achieve more efficiency and gain a little more momentum than having once a month meetings.

[1:40:30] Voice 12: And if staff want to attend those, I would have no problem with that. I don't know that the public needs to, again, just because, you know, we could open them if we want to. It's kind of up to our group to discuss that, but I guess I need guidance from you, Alyssa, and also maybe a comment from either of the two trustees that are attending this meeting.

[1:40:54] Voice 12: Yeah,

[1:40:57] Voice 1: I mean, I think, again, the starting point is the statutory requirement. And just to take it outside the context of the Advisory Planning Commission, even council, if council creates committees, those committees are still subject to the open meeting rule, right?

[1:41:18] Voice 1: And so by creating a subcommittee, first of all, for an advisory planning commission that's been established by the local trust committee to undertake a certain task that's been referred to you, you are that committee, that commission, as that number of people who have been appointed to do that, that you as a group, not a subcommittee to do that group, to avoid then the open meeting rule.

[1:41:46] Voice 1: so that is I think again in that context you've got to think about well what what's been established

[1:41:54] Voice 1: and by who and what task and then what's the statutory requirement in that context so

[1:42:00] Voice 1: here where you have been created as a particular committee without being given the authority to

[1:42:11] Voice 1: create subcommittees um and even if you had those subcommittees that then not comply with the open

[1:42:17] Voice 1: meeting rule is is concerning because the legislation does require uh those those rules

[1:42:24] Voice 1: apply to all bodies um so i you know again i can't give you uh a clear answer on that because

[1:42:32] Voice 1: it does depend factually uh but when you're structuring things on your own outside what

[1:42:40] Voice 1: but the bylaw provides and the local trust committee

[1:42:42] Voice 1: and the legislation provide, that is concerning.

[1:42:50] Voice 15: Were there any other comments from Laura or Peter on that?

[1:42:57] Voice 15: I guess what we-

[1:42:59] Voice 15: Just a sec, Jenny.

[1:43:01] Voice 15: I think, did Peter or Laura want to respond

[1:43:04] Voice 15: to Mike's question or?

[1:43:07] Trustee Grove: Well, I'm happy to say that,

[1:43:08] Trustee Grove: I mean, it makes an awful lot of sense

[1:43:12] Trustee Grove: And I can see, you know, three or even four people getting together unofficially to talk about the project and a particular issue.

[1:43:22] Trustee Grove: But if this committee officially forms a subcommittee, which is what I think is being suggested, then I think you've got a problem because it's now an official body and we'll have to follow the rules.

[1:43:39] Trustee Grove: but so um you know at least as it's not entirely clear what the the response is and but that makes

[1:43:45] Trustee Grove: i understand it's not entirely clear i think um if three of you want to get together for coffee

[1:43:51] Trustee Grove: at some stage i wouldn't hesitate myself but but again i'm repeating myself i'm sorry but if this

[1:43:57] Trustee Grove: committee officially appointed three people to go away and come back with a report then maybe there

[1:44:02] Trustee Grove: there is a problem.

[1:44:04] Voice 15: Thank you, any other comments?

[1:44:08] Voice 15: I think, Bob, did you raise your hand?

[1:44:11] Voice 15: I couldn't tell if you were just scratching yourself.

[1:44:13] Voice 15: Okay, sorry.

[1:44:14] Voice 15: Then Jenny, and then I see your hand there, David.

[1:44:18] Voice 15: I just wanna say, let's try to, if possible,

[1:44:23] Voice 15: we gotta wrap up this discussion

[1:44:26] Voice 15: comes to some kind of resolution, Jenny.

[1:44:29] Voice 15: I

[1:44:29] Voice 10: won't say anything,

[1:44:30] Voice 10: because i know we have one minute and maybe david would like to say something so yeah

[1:44:35] Voice 5: so uh just a

[1:44:37] Voice 5: question uh two-part question so what latitude do we have uh you know we we could probably exhaust

[1:44:43] Voice 5: sarah even if she were completely free eight hours a day seven days a week um based on some

[1:44:49] Voice 5: of the ideas we might have for having coffee um a and b uh what what is the opportunity uh

[1:44:59] Voice 5: uh maybe for one or more of us to sit down with staff uh between these meetings so if you have

[1:45:07] Voice 5: staff are working on some things um can we do something like that is that offline or is that

[1:45:16] Voice 5: would that be okay i

[1:45:22] Voice 15: guess it depends on staff availability like well

[1:45:26] Voice 5: if they're working on what

[1:45:27] Voice 5: we're working on yeah working on stuff for us is there a way to dovetail that and not be offside

[1:45:35] Voice 5: so

[1:45:40] Voice 1: again i guess it'll depend in the context of if it is you're just information gathering a couple

[1:45:45] Voice 1: members are asking questions of staff and wanting to obtain some other information you're you're

[1:45:53] Voice 1: not furthering the business of actually forming the recommendation in the process right

[1:45:58] Voice 1: But if you're, again, establishing a set group to meet with a particular staff person as like a subcommittee, then it starts looking like, again, you're forming another committee that hasn't been established and this issue hasn't been referred to that small committee.

[1:46:22] Voice 1: right? So I think maybe we're trying to, I know you want a bright line and there isn't going to

[1:46:30] Voice 1: be one. Informal discussions of some members asking staff of some questions regarding these

[1:46:37] Voice 1: issues is not going to be an issue.

[1:46:41] Voice 15: Thanks. Is there a possibility we can

[1:46:43] Voice 15: and plan a bi-weekly meeting for the next two or three months,

[1:46:51] Voice 15: not bi

[1:46:52] Voice 15: -weekly, bi-monthly meeting for the next two or three months

[1:46:55] Voice 15: to actually move this project forward and get some momentum

[1:46:58] Voice 15: and have the approval to have the staff and secretary time allocated to that.

[1:47:06] Voice 15: And is that within, do you have a budget for that in time?

[1:47:15] Voice 15: I'm just, that would be a question to Louisa and Peter, I guess.

[1:47:22] Voice 2: Chair, I think it's been really great to learn a lot from Louisa.

[1:47:28] Voice 2: I think what I would do is work with Stephan and see what we can do.

[1:47:34] Voice 2: We keep this monthly meeting as the way it is.

[1:47:38] Voice 2: And I'm just thinking, and at least I can let me know that it's still a problem,

[1:47:42] Voice 2: is you can as a group the whole task force not a smaller group but as a group that you have

[1:47:50] Voice 2: additional meetings but at a minimum it's having the secretary sarah will take the minutes and

[1:47:58] Voice 2: still we can advertise those dates so that it's the public knows and they can attend as well

[1:48:04] Voice 2: but you won't have staff there and then at each monthly meeting like the ones that is already

[1:48:11] Voice 2: the established you can have a summary for staff so that we know what's being discussed

[1:48:18] Voice 2: would that be okay alisa uh

[1:48:22] Voice 1: i'd have to look closely at your bylaw whether um staff's entitled

[1:48:27] Voice 1: to attend all meetings or require like i know the secretary for sure has to be there but i

[1:48:32] Voice 1: i don't know i can't remember if it's somewhere in here it says also like there must be one trustee

[1:48:38] Voice 1: or anything like that obviously whatever the requirements are the bylaw um as long as those

[1:48:45] Voice 1: are being met yes you can have more meetings um it's about just getting notice of those meetings

[1:48:50] Voice 1: and resources really right i think a lot of these questions might be coming from uh finding a balance

[1:48:56] Voice 1: with resources and also wanting to have lots of discussions on a very sounds like a very detailed

[1:49:01] Voice 1: detailed topic right and how do we move this forward in the public interest uh in that

[1:49:08] Voice 1: setting and have perhaps some discussions between some members uh on you know outside that formal

[1:49:16] Voice 1: process i

[1:49:18] Voice 15: think if we were able to schedule something for two weeks from now at the same

[1:49:22] Voice 15: time 10 to noon same zoom call and advertise it to the public ahead of time and if sarah were

[1:49:28] Voice 15: were available and any staff that could join or trustees

[1:49:32] Voice 15: that I would motion that we explore that and schedule that.

[1:49:41] Voice 5: I second that, the only nagging issue I have is that

[1:49:49] Voice 5: we're aware that if somebody doesn't make three meetings

[1:49:52] Voice 5: in a row that they're automatically asked to leave.

[1:50:00] Voice 2: I think the regulation refers to an excused absence, so that's why we encourage you, if you know you cannot meet the meeting, you'll let us know.

[1:50:11] Voice 6: Okay.

[1:50:14] Voice 15: All in favor? All right. All opposed? All right. So thank you so much, Louisa, for that great suggestion.

[1:50:26] Voice 12: John Potter, Exactly

[1:50:26] Voice 12: how many were voted yes and how many knows, or how many abstain just because we need that, for the record.

[1:50:34] Voice 15: Janet Callahan, let's do that again then all in favor 1234567 all opposed i'm all abstain Jenny I guess so.

[1:50:47] Voice 15: John

[1:50:48] Voice 12: Potter, Thank you.

[1:50:49] Voice 15: Janet Callahan, Great so Stefan do you have a comment.

[1:50:52] Voice 8: I do. Thank you.

[1:50:54] Voice 8: First of all, you know, I really appreciate the robustness of your discussion.

[1:50:58] Voice 8: And thank you, Alyssa, for coming in and giving your presentation.

[1:51:01] Voice 8: I'm hearing a lot of information, a lot of things about searching for ways to get more done with this group.

[1:51:07] Voice 8: And that's what that resolution recommends.

[1:51:10] Voice 8: Just a bit about process.

[1:51:11] Voice 8: I hate process.

[1:51:12] Voice 8: Did you know that?

[1:51:13] Voice 8: But I have to tell you process anyways.

[1:51:15] Voice 8: And that process would be your resolution.

[1:51:17] Voice 8: I'm going to take, we'll take it to the LTC and staff have to sort of contemplate what resources

[1:51:22] Voice 8: we have, talk to the minute taker, et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, I like, I appreciate the brevity

[1:51:28] Voice 8: and the quickness by which you make that resolution, but the realistic nature of trying

[1:51:33] Voice 8: to figure out the resources takes a little bit more time than just that. So just a word of caution

[1:51:38] Voice 8: that I hear you, we will work to achieve your goals, but it might take a little bit more than

[1:51:43] Voice 8: just two weeks to to get so just just thought i'd jump in there and and advise you of that

[1:51:50] Voice 8: does is that understood uh i can give you the simple example that your meetings were being

[1:51:55] Voice 8: uh all on the same day so we could have the ganges village task force and the housing task force on

[1:52:00] Voice 8: the same day and in order to sort of potentially give you more time in each meeting they were going

[1:52:05] Voice 8: to be separated every two weeks but by this resolution now i don't know if we can achieve

[1:52:10] Voice 8: that because we already have a minute taker conflict. So just want to jump out there and

[1:52:16] Voice 8: tell you that it may not be as easy as a resolution to resolve getting the resources, but we will do

[1:52:21] Voice 8: our best.

[1:52:21] Voice 15: So did I hear you correctly, Stefan? You've already allocated more time for each of

[1:52:28] Voice 15: our monthly meetings?

[1:52:30] Voice 8: No, I understood that it was a point of discussion. You guys were trying to have

[1:52:34] Voice 8: have more time. And I, and we sort of brainstormed ways to help you achieve that goal, but I haven't

[1:52:40] Voice 8: attended these meetings. So I'm not sure where you went down, but I do understand that the proposal

[1:52:44] Voice 8: was to switch instead of having both task force meetings on one day to separate them so that every

[1:52:52] Voice 8: second week Louisa is attending a different task force meeting. And that would allow us maybe to

[1:52:58] Voice 8: allocate maybe at least one more hour to the meeting type thing. So you have a three hour

[1:53:01] Voice 8: meeting. And so they find some way to help you get there. What I'm hearing is, is you want more

[1:53:06] Voice 8: time sooner to get more done and that, that we can certainly work towards achieving that goal.

[1:53:14] Voice 15: Thanks. Yeah. More time period, I think is just the, the, uh, the group feeling. All right. Well,

[1:53:22] Voice 15: here we are. Thank you. Close to the end. Any other comments, uh, in the group, John?

[1:53:29] Voice 15: on

[1:53:30] Voice 11: yeah just quickly and then jenny

[1:53:32] Voice 11: i've served on other commissions and and to get an awful lot

[1:53:35] Voice 11: of work done even more than what we're looking at here and of course you're able to do that because

[1:53:40] Voice 11: there's a there's a series of reports that come out and they explain the decision that's ahead

[1:53:44] Voice 11: of the committee all the pros and cons the background uh and the alternate actions the

[1:53:49] Voice 11: committee can take now i i realize that's uh maybe not practical but and to entirely operate

[1:53:56] Voice 11: under that model but uh maybe we can move a little bit more to that model where if we have more

[1:54:02] Voice 11: background if you have staff reports we read it in advance we come prepared to make decisions

[1:54:07] Voice 11: that uh that might help in some of the instances thanks

[1:54:12] Voice 10: jenny uh yeah i think that one thing i'd

[1:54:17] Voice 10: like to see is everybody should come on time so when we start at 10 we're really starting at 10

[1:54:23] Voice 10: because with every meeting people come in like 1005 1007 and they say things like i'm really

[1:54:30] Voice 10: sorry but my internet didn't work or whatever but by this point when we've been doing zoom

[1:54:35] Voice 10: for so long people could probably have those glitches organized because we have a tremendous

[1:54:42] Voice 10: amount of material to cover and then i noticed some people come in and go out of these meetings

[1:54:47] Voice 10: like we're missing a couple of the people who popped in and then they popped out so i don't

[1:54:52] Voice 10: really know what that's all about but i'd like it to be the same as when people are meeting face

[1:54:57] Voice 10: to face and everybody's completely attentive to every detail and also um just to bear in mind

[1:55:05] Voice 10: uh ganges is a really difficult place um i know people don't necessarily think so but it has

[1:55:12] Voice 10: stimulated meetings before where like even with doing mapping for a period like over 500 people

[1:55:21] Voice 10: would show up at one meeting so what we're deciding is controversial like even deciding

[1:55:26] Voice 10: lines on a map it's obvious that we need to be able to discuss these things quite fully because

[1:55:31] Voice 10: we're making decisions that are have a lot of implications on the community so I say we

[1:55:38] Voice 10: shouldn't really be surprised that we this is quite an involved process and of course I would

[1:55:44] Voice 10: love to see us having more time even though I've just you know been taking in the reasons why it's

[1:55:50] Voice 10: difficult to provide that. I would also love that if that were possible. So that's all I have to say.

[1:56:01] Voice 15: Oh, David, to close us out, huh?

[1:56:04] Voice 5: Yeah, that was my observation. I feel,

[1:56:09] Voice 5: although not everything is clear here, this has been a very beneficial session for me.

[1:56:17] Voice 5: Just looking at the clock, I can't underscore the problem more than the fact we only have a couple

[1:56:25] Voice 5: of minutes and uh we missed our walk around so we missed an opportunity to get more done

[1:56:31] Voice 5: and i don't want that to get dropped so that's why i put up my hand can we schedule another

[1:56:36] Voice 5: walk around that's

[1:56:39] Voice 15: right yeah we had a a tour a site visit to just gather information scheduled

[1:56:46] Voice 15: scheduled um is that something is that legal you

[1:56:52] Voice 1: want to end on that one i can say there is a not

[1:56:56] Voice 1: a court case for an advisory planning commission but for the board of variance i do a lot of work

[1:57:01] Voice 1: with board of variances too um site visits are acceptable obviously because it helps to see what

[1:57:10] Voice 1: you're talking about but it's the same cautionary you should be careful in when you go and do a

[1:57:16] Voice 1: a site visit to have discussions with the applicant and other members in that context

[1:57:24] Voice 1: where you're moving the matter forward that should be in an open meeting so it's one thing to say oh

[1:57:31] Voice 1: what are you talking about there point me to this versus starting to have a full discussion about

[1:57:36] Voice 1: what's the application about and having the applicant give their spiel or whatever that

[1:57:40] Voice 1: That should be in the meeting.

[1:57:43] Voice 15: Thank you.

[1:57:44] Voice 15: Okay, so does this time from 10 to noon on the 29th work for a site visit for everybody?

[1:57:54] Voice 6: Or

[1:57:54] Voice 15: is there anybody that it doesn't work for the 29th of July from 10 to noon?

[1:58:00] Voice 15: What day of the week is that?

[1:58:02] Voice 15: It's like basically today in two weeks.

[1:58:07] Voice 12: Are we not going to have a meeting that day though?

[1:58:11] Voice 12: Well,

[1:58:12] Voice 15: Stefan said it was too fast to get organized. So, we might as well have a site visit on that day, I guess. It

[1:58:22] Voice 12: sounds like everyone

[1:58:24] Voice 15: can make it.

[1:58:24] Voice 15: Well,

[1:58:25] Voice 12: I have one question or a comment, and that is that I can make it, and that's not a big deal to me, but in deference to a handful of people on the board in our task force that do work.

[1:58:41] Voice 12: I'm not sure that 10 to 12 on Thursdays every two weeks is amenable for them, and I don't want to ask people to be forced to leave work for this.

[1:58:55] Voice 12: And I know we had something set up for a Sunday, which wasn't a problem to me again, but there are other people here that may not work on a Sunday, but I'd be definitely working on a Thursday.

[1:59:06] Voice 12: day. And I just think you should sort of ask that question a little more carefully.

[1:59:11] Voice 15: Would anybody rather do it on a, is that addressed to you, Chris?

[1:59:19] Voice 15: Do you want to speak to what time would work best to you for you, Chris?

[1:59:24] Voice 3: Evenings or weekends. Right now I am working seven days a week, as many hours a day as I can.

[1:59:33] Voice 3: So it's got to be evenings or weekends.

[1:59:36] Voice 3: We usually finish at 9 or 10 o'clock at night every night.

[1:59:40] Voice 12: Another comment

[1:59:41] Voice 12: might be, Robin, that on a weekend we'll get to see the town sort of at its fullest extent because stores will be open, people will be milling about.

[1:59:53] Voice 12: If we go in an evening or on a weekday, it won't be nearly the same.

[2:00:00] Voice 10: all right well i just i'd

[2:00:01] Voice 10: love to go with i'd love to go with thursday july 29th and um i have a

[2:00:06] Voice 10: commitment on the sunday so i don't want to start off just as we're making an agreement by not making

[2:00:12] Voice 10: the agreement so if people would be able to do thursday july 29th i'm all in favor thanks and

[2:00:18] Voice 15: if anybody can't make it you can also just send your regrets and just a site visit to look around

[2:00:24] Voice 15: and look at that maybe we'll talk about Ganges and gather information okay um

[2:00:29] Voice 15: is that okay with

[2:00:30] Voice 15: you Chris if we schedule

[2:00:32] Voice 3: that for Thursday totally that's totally fine with me thank you okay well

[2:00:37] Voice 15: that's great do we need to make a motion for that or is that just uh we've scheduled we've

[2:00:43] Voice 15: now scheduled a site visit for Thursday July 29th from 10 to noon and we're meeting at the

[2:00:49] Voice 15: The Treehouse Cafe, if that works for you.

[2:00:52] Voice 15: I can't wait to see you in person.

[2:00:54] Voice 15: Thanks, everyone.

[2:00:57] Voice 6: Thanks, 12.

[2:00:58] Voice 6: Thanks for

[2:00:59] Voice 6: bringing that up, David.

[2:00:59] Voice 15: And thanks for everybody spending all this time together.

[2:01:03] Voice 15: Okay.

[2:01:04] Voice 15: See you next time.

[2:01:05] Voice 13: Thanks.

[2:01:06] Voice 13: Bye.

[2:01:06] Voice 15: Bye.

[2:01:07] Voice 15: Bye.

Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee  
Special Meeting 
Minutes ADOPTED
  1 
July 15, 2021 
  
 
Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee 
Minutes of a Special Meeting 
 
 
Date: Thursday, July 15, 2021 
  
Location: Electronic Meeting 
200-1627 Fort Street, Victoria
 
  
Members Present: Peter Luckham, Chair  
Laura Patrick, Local Trustee 
Peter Grove, Local Trustee 
  
Staff Present: Stefan Cermak, Regional Planning Manager (RPM) 
Geordie Gordon, Planner 2 
Kristine Mayes, Planner 1 
Rob Pingle, Recorder  
  
Others Present: 
 
Brent Brochu-Ingram, Agricultural Advisory Planning Committee  
Theresa Duynstee, Agricultural Alliance 
Jan Steinman, Agricultural Advisory Planning Committee 
Anne Macey, Agricultural Alliance 
Doug Pepper, Ministry of Agriculture 
Conrad Pilon, Agricultural Advisory Planning Committee  
Ken Byron, Agricultural Advisory Planning Committee  
Nathan Roberson, Agricultural Advisory Planning Committee 
Brian Webster
, 
Agricultural Alliance
 
One member of the public  
  
These minutes follow the order of the agenda although the sequence may have varied.  
 
1. CALL TO ORDER 
  
Chair Luckham called the meeting to order at 4:02 p.m. and welcomed everyone to an electronic 
meeting of the Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee. Chair Luckham introduced himself, the 
Trustees and staff and acknowledged that the Local Trust Committee is meeting within Coast 
Salish Territory. Introductions were carried out. 
 
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 
 
By  general  consent the  agenda was approved with  the  addition  of Future  Meeting  on 
Reconciliation. 
 

 
 
Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee  
Special Meeting 
Minutes ADOPTED
  2 
July 15, 2021 
  
3. BUSINESS ITEMS 
 
 3.1   Local Trust Committee Chair's Welcome and Opening Remarks  
Chair Luckham reported this meeting is an opportunity for the Salt Spring Island Local Trust 
Committee  to  have  a  discussion  with  the  members  of  the  Salt  Spring  Island  Agricultural 
Advisory  Planning  Commission  (AAPC)  and  representatives  of  the  Salt  Spring  Island 
Agricultural Alliance on agriculture related issues. 
 
3.2 Minutes  from  the  February  11,  2021  Salt  Spring  Island  Local  Trust  Committee and 
Agricultural Advisory Planning Commission Meeting 
 
The minutes were received for information. 
3.3 SS-ALR-2021.1 – K. Tuttle – 231 Meadow Drive, SSI 
         Planner Gordon presented a verbal update on this application for information. 
In discussion the following comments were noted: 
 Concern was expressed and addressed about the agricultural activity on the property. 
 Question  was  raised  about  the  project  being  in  line  with  the  new Agricultural  Land 
Commission (ALC) directives. 
 3.4 ALC Information Update, dated July 12, 2021  
The ALC Information Update was received.   
 
In discussion the following comments were noted: 
 
Concern was expressed about the relationship between the Islands Trust and the ALC 
with these new rules in place and RPM Cermak discussed the implications.
 
 
A concern was addressed about the increased ability for farm worker housing to limit 
the amount of farm land available.
 
 
The Area Farm Plan was discussed as a document that will help provide local guidance 
to the implementation of these new rules.
 
 
A question was raised about increasing farmworker housing on non-Agricultural Land 
Reserve (ALR) land. 
 
 
A question was raised if a framework was possible for Islands Trust to limit expansion of 
housing on Agricultural Land Reserve (ALR) land unless farming was present.
 
 
A  question  was  raised  about  filing  a  notice  of  intent  about  soil  movement  in 
development  of a  residential  property. Ministry  staff  noted  that  this  was  to  ensure 
agricultural land was keep as undisturbed as possible; Salt Spring Island Local Trust Area 
Soil  Removal  and  Deposit  Regulation Bylaw No. 418  was  noted  as  a  similar  local 
regulation.
 
 

 
 
Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee  
Special Meeting 
Minutes ADOPTED
  3 
July 15, 2021 
  
 
 
 
SS-2021-140 
It was MOVED and SECONDED, 
That the Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee direct staff to prepare a report on options 
to  amend  bylaws  to  accommodate  the Agricultural  Land  Commission July  12, 2021 
announcement on residential flexibility in consideration of the 2020 Salt Spring Island Area 
Farm Plan Renewal. 
CARRIED 
 
  3.5 Discussion of Agricultural Priorities
 
 
In discussion the following comments were noted: 
 
A question was raised about the Islands Trust Council Policy Statement and how the 
Islands Trust perceives the importance of agriculture.
 
 
Chair Luckham spoke to the role of staff in the advancing of applications or policies to 
ensure the options presented are in alignment with all rules and regulations and that 
Trustees have more flexibility to make decisions.
 
 
Support was expressed for the advancement of agricultural activities in our community.
 
 
Islands Trust Policy Statement 4.4.2 was referred to and it was suggested “food security” 
be changed to “local food production”. 
 
 
Encouragement  was  given  to  work  towards  a  region  wide  discussion  on  agriculture 
within the Islands Trust area.
 
 
Section 3.23.2 of Bylaw No. 355 (Composting Regulations) was referred to and it was 
suggested removing  the  words “produced  onsite” would  result  in  easier  creation  of 
composting facilities on Salt Spring Island. 
 
 
The budget cycle was referred to as something to consider when advancing ideas that 
are agricultural related.
 
 
A question was raised about the possibility to map the properties that are accessing farm 
status through BC Assessment and staff commented that it was possible.
 
 
It was suggested that there are land use maps available to gain a better understanding 
of agriculture in the Islands Trust, the agricultural land use inventory was referred to as 
a form of similar information and Ministry staff agreed, stating they could provide some 
resources.
 
 
SS-2021-141 
It was MOVED and SECONDED, 
That the Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee direct staff to bring forward to the next 
special business meeting with the AAPC and AG Alliance the following items: a map indicating 
farm status and the most recent agricultural land use inventory. 
CARRIED
 
 

 
 
Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee  
Special Meeting 
Minutes ADOPTED
  4 
July 15, 2021 
  
 
 
Discussion continued and the following comments were noted: 
 A concern regarding water quality was raised as a major impact to viable agriculture with 
the increased impacts of climate change. 
 Questions were raised about the viability of the current Ganges Fire Hall being converted 
into a farmers market with the current zoning. Staff explained the zoning of the hall is 
Commercial 1 (C1) and the parking lot in front of it is Park and Reserves variant a (PR4(a)). 
 Further  discussion  ensued  about  the  ability  of  those  zones  to  allow  for  indoor  and 
outdoor farmers markets. Staff could not provide clear advice on that and offered to 
provide a review of the zoning regulations to the Agricultural Alliance. 
 It was noted that the Ganges Village Plan Project will be a good opportunity to address 
the above point. 
 It was noted that the watershed issue might be a point of conflict between the general 
community and farmers as there is misunderstanding about the good and the bad of 
agriculture. 
 There was an inquiry about the timeline on the watershed planning that is happening 
within the Islands Trust. 
 Concern was raised about the issues of septic systems and drainage due to additional 
housing on farm land having a negative impact on the watershed and farm land. 
 Feedback regarding agriculture as it relates to the Policy Statement was requested. 
 
3.6 Future meeting regarding reconciliation 
 
 
Trustee  Patrick  brought  forward  an  offer  from  Staff  Lisa  Wilcox  to present  an  education 
session on implementing reconciliation as it pertains to agriculture. 
 
In discussion the following comments were noted: 
 A  request  of  assistance  in  establishing the  role  of  farmers  in  ways  to  improve 
relationships with First Nations was expressed. 
  

 
 
Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee  
Special Meeting 
Minutes ADOPTED
  5 
July 15, 2021 
  
 
 
4. ADJOURNMENT 
 
The next meeting is scheduled on November 18, 2021. 
 
 
By general consent the meeting adjourned at 5:36 p.m. 
 
 
 
 
_________________________ 
Peter Luckham, Chair 
 
CERTIFIED CORRECT: 
 
 
_________________________ 
Rob Pingle, Recorder