Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee regular meeting, July 15, 2021

[0:00:00] Voice 13: live streaming as well hello

[0:00:05] Voice 9: everyone can you hear me okay

[0:00:10] Voice 8: um

[0:00:13] Voice 9: yeah so it's uh it's just a

[0:00:17] Voice 9: few minutes after time i think we'll um we should start the meeting um i'd just like to acknowledge

[0:00:23] Voice 9: that we're having this meeting on the unceded territory of the coast salish people and um

[0:00:31] Voice 9: need to acknowledge that very important so into a roll call and I'll call it

[0:00:41] Voice 9: call the names can everyone just say they're say I if they're here so well

[0:00:46] Voice 9: I'm here Carrie is Carrie here hi

[0:00:50] Voice 10: hi

[0:00:51] Voice 9: Carrie thanks my Ken my Ken's not here

[0:00:57] Voice 9: here yet um daniel daniel's not here yet um stanley

[0:01:08] Voice 8: and it's here and as i as i told you

[0:01:10] Voice 8: earlier i'll have to slip out at 2 30 okay thank

[0:01:14] Voice 8: you two places at once not

[0:01:16] Voice 9: yet we'll figure that

[0:01:17] Voice 9: out it's not one of these days um james yes uh mirror mirror's not here yet i'm sure he'll try

[0:01:29] Voice 9: to attend oh here

[0:01:30] Voice 17: it is hi

[0:01:31] Voice 9: Mira just on cue are you here

[0:01:33] Voice 17: uh

[0:01:36] Voice 9: he's on mute um we're just doing a

[0:01:41] Voice 9: roll call Mira um so what can we see him can I just affirm that he's here

[0:01:47] Voice 17: um Najma

[0:01:53] Voice 17: I

[0:01:54] Voice 9: see that Najma is here uh Yvonne yes

[0:01:57] Voice 11: I'm here Jessica

[0:01:59] Voice 9: hi

[0:02:01] Voice 11: yes I'm happy to be here

[0:02:02] Voice 11: Hi,

[0:02:03] Voice 9: Jessica. Happy you're here too. Bryce. And Bryce is here. Oh, and Daniel has just joined us

[0:02:12] Voice 9: as well.

[0:02:13] Voice 10: And I'm here. I'm just setting up in my office, had to deal with children.

[0:02:17] Voice 10: Okay,

[0:02:17] Voice 9: perfect. So it looks like everyone's here except for Maiken so far.

[0:02:26] Voice 9: Okay, so the next step is the approval of the agenda.

[0:02:31] Voice 9: Does anyone have any changes they'd like to add or request of the agenda?

[0:02:47] Voice 9: Okay, so does that mean that we need to move to approve the agenda?

[0:02:55] Voice 9: Would anyone like to make a motion to move to approve the agenda?

[0:03:00] Voice 17: Yes, I do.

[0:03:02] Voice 9: Okay. Yvonne, second. Bryce seconds it. So we'll approve the agenda as presented.

[0:03:13] Voice 9: Next is the approval of the draft minutes from the last meeting.

[0:03:19] Voice 9: Does anyone have anything, any comments about the minutes from the last meeting?

[0:03:23] Voice 17: I

[0:03:28] Voice 11: may ask a question. I wasn't, unfortunately, I wasn't able to attend the last meeting that we

[0:03:33] Voice 11: had and i just had a question regarding the um is it all right if i i should first ask if it's

[0:03:39] Voice 11: all right if i ask a question regarding the minutes i

[0:03:42] Voice 9: think it's a i think it's all right

[0:03:43] Voice 9: yeah okay

[0:03:44] Voice 11: um i just wanted some clarification oh on um the on the gabriola housing working group

[0:03:51] Voice 11: there was a survey that we were going to be doing based on that and i just wanted to know a little

[0:03:56] Voice 11: bit more about what that survey was and what that survey will look like okay

[0:04:01] Voice 9: um louisa is it some

[0:04:03] Voice 9: appropriate time to answer that question?

[0:04:05] Voice 3: Sure, Chair. And I'm sorry to say I am really behind

[0:04:09] Voice 3: on that. And we're definitely working on it. The challenge I run into is because of the project

[0:04:16] Voice 3: charter is so broad, we want to make sure the questions cover what we intend to achieve.

[0:04:22] Voice 3: And on

[0:04:23] Voice 3: top of the workload, I'm running a bit behind. But I'm also pleased to say that we're

[0:04:29] Voice 3: making headway. Yesterday I put quite a bit of work on it. So hopefully by the next meeting,

[0:04:34] Voice 3: I will be able to submit the draft for the task force to review. Thank you for asking.

[0:04:41] Voice 11: May I also just ask a question regarding the minutes as well? I just had a question regarding

[0:04:48] Voice 11: in particular whether or not it might be valuable to have a look at other cities that have a similar

[0:04:56] Voice 11: or towns that have a similar population size to us,

[0:04:59] Voice 11: like looking more at Nelson and their housing,

[0:05:02] Voice 11: I believe they have a housing committee

[0:05:03] Voice 11: and they've done a lot of work with their community there

[0:05:06] Voice 11: on addressing the housing crisis.

[0:05:09] Voice 11: As I also feel like their Nelson,

[0:05:11] Voice 11: the demographic is quite similar to us

[0:05:14] Voice 11: in regards to population demographic.

[0:05:17] Voice 11: And it has the population of similar size.

[0:05:20] Voice 11: I believe there's about 12,000 folks in Nelson,

[0:05:23] Voice 11: Nelson, whereas Gabriela is, I believe, only 4,500 people. So I don't know if that would be

[0:05:29] Voice 11: something that might be helpful for us to look at.

[0:05:34] Voice 9: Yeah. Luisa, do you have any comments on that?

[0:05:38] Voice 3: Thank you, Chair, and appreciate the question. We always do research, and that's always part of the

[0:05:44] Voice 3: research process for staff. Doesn't matter what we do, we want to make sure we are in line with

[0:05:49] Voice 3: other jurisdictions and also in compliance with the BC regulations. So yes, for sure we will.

[0:05:57] Voice 3: But at the same time, just so you know, to be more specific, it also depends on the direction

[0:06:03] Voice 3: the task force is taking. We want to make sure our research covers all the items that are being

[0:06:11] Voice 3: brought up by the task force. And I think today's meeting will start looking at that.

[0:06:17] Voice 17: Thank you.

[0:06:19] Voice 9: Yeah, it sounds like a good idea.

[0:06:23] Voice 9: Tofino is another one that comes to mind.

[0:06:25] Voice 9: Okay.

[0:06:26] Voice 9: Are there any other questions or comments about the minutes?

[0:06:33] Voice 9: Do we have a motion to approve the minutes?

[0:06:38] Voice 8: So moved.

[0:06:39] Voice 9: Stanley moves the motion.

[0:06:41] Voice 9: Do we have a second?

[0:06:44] Voice 5: I'll second it.

[0:06:45] Voice 9: Bryce seconds to approve the minutes.

[0:06:50] Voice 9: So all in favour, I suppose?

[0:06:53] Voice 13: Aye.

[0:06:54] Voice 9: Right. Okay. So we've approved the minutes. So on to item two, legal orientation and question

[0:07:06] Voice 9: and answers. Louisa, is this? Thank

[0:07:13] Voice 3: you, Chair. I'm just looking to see if our legal advisor is

[0:07:17] Voice 3: here yet. I think Rob is checking. We have her set up at 1.10 and maybe she is not locking in

[0:07:45] Voice 3: until then so uh chair if it's okay while we're waiting um i was wondering can we actually just

[0:08:00] Voice 3: let you know about 3.1 that way we can save some time that is a very brief um information

[0:08:08] Voice 9: excellent i think that's a nice opportunity to do that

[0:08:10] Voice 3: okay so uh because of the concerns brought

[0:08:14] Voice 3: by the members wanting to meet more and as much as possible we are finding having the afternoon

[0:08:20] Voice 3: session is really challenging and certain Thursdays is almost impossible like today

[0:08:25] Voice 3: is agenda packet due and our staff have a lot of other meetings jam-packed all in one day with LTC

[0:08:33] Voice 3: joint meeting as well so we are proposing moving it to every first Thursday morning starting at 10

[0:08:42] Voice 3: so that way if you run over time we don't have to shut down the meeting on rush week so that is a

[0:08:48] Voice 3: change and the second change is also um want to let you know that we are hoping to start our next

[0:08:55] Voice 3: meeting uh in august to be in person so that means you are going to be meeting again in two weeks

[0:09:03] Voice 3: much shorter because we're moving you to the first of august so what

[0:09:09] Voice 5: is the date please for

[0:09:11] Voice 5: that next meeting louisa what is the date the

[0:09:14] Voice 3: date would be it's a first sorry i'm just opening up

[0:09:19] Voice 3: my calendar. It

[0:09:34] Voice 3: will be the 5th at 10 o'clock. We will be sending you meeting invites and also

[0:09:42] Voice 3: the address for the in-person meeting.

[0:09:47] Voice 9: So the next meeting would be August 5th?

[0:09:51] Voice 17: Correct. Can

[0:09:54] Voice 7: I ask a follow-up question? Sorry,

[0:09:56] Voice 4: I've had my hand up and I asked last time for

[0:10:01] Voice 4: this dynamic of people jumping in over top of each other it's really not helpful i'm sorry

[0:10:06] Voice 9: sorry sorry mike and it's please um it's difficult we're we're all looking at tiny little squares on

[0:10:12] Voice 9: a screen and i didn't even know that you were here um so yes hello mike him

[0:10:17] Voice 4: yeah no it's just

[0:10:19] Voice 4: something that i've been shown many times it's also a dynamic that tends to favor men more than

[0:10:23] Voice 4: women it's not an equitable dynamic so can we please have the hand raising system uh all i

[0:10:30] Voice 4: I want to say with Louisa, thank you for all your work.

[0:10:34] Voice 4: I'm fine with it being in two weeks.

[0:10:36] Voice 4: Earlier in the day is great, and in person is great.

[0:10:38] Voice 4: Thank you.

[0:10:41] Voice 9: Thanks, Michael.

[0:10:45] Voice 9: Sorry, so do I have any more comments?

[0:10:48] Voice 8: Stanley?

[0:10:49] Voice 8: Okay, well, one first thing, I think I better look,

[0:10:51] Voice 8: somebody better explain to me how to raise a hand,

[0:10:54] Voice 8: because I've been using Zoom for two years,

[0:10:56] Voice 8: and that's the first time I've seen it.

[0:10:58] Voice 8: But aside from that, I'm sorry about that.

[0:11:01] Voice 8: we would try to be more careful. But I thought we received something at one time that suggested we

[0:11:07] Voice 8: were going to meet more frequently rather than just change the time. In fact that had posed some

[0:11:13] Voice 8: scheduling conflicts for me. But is the plan now to meet once a month on the first Thursday

[0:11:21] Voice 8: in the morning?

[0:11:25] Voice 3: It's first Thursday at 10 o'clock in the morning.

[0:11:29] Voice 8: And subsequent Thursdays as well?

[0:11:31] Voice 8: I mean, subsequent first Thursdays as well.

[0:11:35] Voice 3: Correct, monthly.

[0:11:37] Voice 3: And as far

[0:11:37] Voice 3: as meeting more frequently,

[0:11:40] Voice 3: I would suggest we segue to our legal Q&A.

[0:11:44] Voice 3: Maybe after that, you'll get a better idea

[0:11:46] Voice 3: of how you want to organize that.

[0:11:49] Voice 9: Okay.

[0:11:50] Voice 9: Neshma, you also had your hand up.

[0:11:52] Voice 9: Did you want to?

[0:11:55] Voice 10: Well, I think that perhaps that can be saved for the lawyer

[0:11:59] Voice 10: because it is in regards to meetings and how we can become more productive in

[0:12:04] Voice 10: this space together and get more accomplished so and subcommittees as

[0:12:09] Voice 10: well so meetings and creating that so that's for lawyer for the lawyer talk I

[0:12:14] Voice 10: suppose thank you okay thank you

[0:12:17] Voice 3: I'm sorry before we start I unfortunately I

[0:12:21] Voice 3: didn't realize I was supposed to send a document to you for this orientation so

[0:12:28] Voice 3: So Rob just did. So if you get it, that's great. And if not, Alyssa, I'll be happy to

[0:12:33] Voice 3: use the share screen if you want.

[0:12:39] Voice 17: Do you

[0:12:40] Voice 3: want me to start, Louisa?

[0:12:42] Voice 3: Yes, please. Chair, if that's okay with the chair.

[0:12:46] Voice 9: Thank you, sir. I didn't realize that you're here. Again, it's very difficult, people showing

[0:12:50] Voice 9: up as a two-inch square on my screen. Hello, Alyssa.

[0:12:54] Voice 9: Hello.

[0:12:55] Voice 9: Hi, thanks for being here.

[0:12:56] Voice 9: So

[0:12:58] Voice 14: I also can only see nine people on the screen at a time. So you may have to speak up if you have questions for me, because I might miss the hands.

[0:13:09] Voice 14: So just a bit of a background as far as what this session is about and why I'm here.

[0:13:16] Voice 14: um so i'm a legal counsel for the islands trust our firm represents um the islands trust in

[0:13:26] Voice 14: various legal matters as well as many other local governments across bc um i also do work with

[0:13:33] Voice 14: boards of variance um and uh the the topic that i'm going to be talking about uh about um meetings

[0:13:42] Voice 14: and legal requirements is a seminar i provide quite frequently and um and so some of your

[0:13:52] Voice 14: questions are probably not unique in that uh they've come up and i'm just trying to give you

[0:13:57] Voice 14: the context from the legal the legal realm as to why we do maybe some of the things we do a certain

[0:14:04] Voice 14: way. In the context of this type of meeting, so I'm not here to give legal advice to the

[0:14:15] Voice 14: commission. As I said, you know, we give legal advice to the Islands Trust. And sometimes I do

[0:14:22] Voice 14: give opinions regarding advisory planning commissions to the Islands Trust. And in the

[0:14:28] Voice 14: the context of perhaps the local trust committee's decision making process and how something might

[0:14:35] Voice 14: be affected with regards to what the advisory planning commission has done. So the purpose of

[0:14:42] Voice 14: this particular session is really just to talk about what are some of the legal requirements

[0:14:48] Voice 14: performance um in the basis for that um and so i'm going to kind of talk a little bit about

[0:14:57] Voice 14: the boring stuff the the bylaw and the legislation and then i'm sure you do have some questions for

[0:15:04] Voice 14: me um that uh i certainly am open to having a discussion about but like i said in the context

[0:15:12] Voice 14: of if you're asking me for a very a specific you know legal advice regarding a specific issue

[0:15:17] Voice 14: that's not really um the purpose for today it's to give it more at a higher level uh because it

[0:15:24] Voice 14: is going to depend on the facts of a particular situation and then it has to go through in the

[0:15:29] Voice 14: context of the islands trust uh whether they want to seek legal advice regarding it or

[0:15:33] Voice 14: uh how that will work um yes sorry i'm mute absolutely sorry

[0:15:43] Voice 10: about that so just to clarify

[0:15:44] Voice 10: you are legal counsel to the Islands Trust and not to our Commission so that

[0:15:51] Voice 10: means that perhaps we would require legal advice separate from you because

[0:15:57] Voice 10: you are only going to give your opinions based on the fact that you are legal

[0:16:02] Voice 10: counsel to the trust right is that right yeah

[0:16:06] Voice 14: I mean it's sometimes it'll depend

[0:16:08] Voice 14: on the circumstance because like just to give you an example I do a lot of work

[0:16:14] Voice 14: for boards of variance and boards of variance are kind of like they're they're obviously different

[0:16:18] Voice 14: than advisory planning commissions because they actually are a decision maker in granting

[0:16:23] Voice 14: variances rather than providing recommendations which the commission does sometimes depending on

[0:16:30] Voice 14: the issue the local government will seek legal advice from their legal counsel regarding a board

[0:16:36] Voice 14: of variance matter or regarding an advisory planning commission matter and so in that

[0:16:42] Voice 14: context will give the advice. So for example, if the Islands Trust has received perhaps complaints

[0:16:51] Voice 14: that some members of the Advisory Planning Commission have a conflict of interest,

[0:16:57] Voice 14: the Islands Trust might seek a legal opinion from us and share that with the Advisory Planning

[0:17:03] Voice 14: Commission as far as, you know, do you have a conflict of interest? And similar, we provide

[0:17:10] Voice 14: For example, sometimes if someone alleges that a trustee has a conflict of interest, the Islands Trust will seek our advice regarding that. We provide it to the Islands Trust. So it'll depend in that context. And that's why I say that, just so you know, as far as who I am and why am I here talking to you.

[0:17:30] Voice 14: and and the reason why you know these legal seminars are good to provide you that the basics

[0:17:36] Voice 14: but also the reason why I'm I'm giving you this seminar is that in the local trust committee's

[0:17:44] Voice 14: decision-making process when they receive recommendations from advisory bodies like

[0:17:50] Voice 14: the advisory planning commission and how that might affect their decision-making process if

[0:17:57] Voice 14: if it's been tainted, for example, if there's a concern with how the Advisory Planning Commission

[0:18:02] Voice 14: came to the recommendations they came, then because that whole process is a public process,

[0:18:11] Voice 14: how is it going to affect the ultimate decision that gets made? And so that's why it's important

[0:18:18] Voice 14: to discuss with the Advisory Planning Commission that's been established by the Local Trust

[0:18:25] Voice 14: committee and given certain terms of reference to provide certain recommendations regarding a

[0:18:32] Voice 14: particular application, why maybe we're discussing some of these things. Does that make sense?

[0:18:39] Voice 14: Yeah. Okay. So the booklet that will be circulated to you is just a few little pieces of information

[0:18:50] Voice 14: to help you to kind of for reference later and whatnot.

[0:18:54] Voice 14: Believe it or not, there aren't that many court cases

[0:18:57] Voice 14: on advisory planning commissions,

[0:19:00] Voice 14: partly because these types of advisory bodies,

[0:19:06] Voice 14: you're simply, your role is to provide a recommendation,

[0:19:13] Voice 14: perhaps the local trust committee,

[0:19:15] Voice 14: but ultimately it's for the local trust committee

[0:19:18] Voice 14: to consider how much weight to give to that recommendation and they're ultimately the

[0:19:23] Voice 14: decision maker and so um particular challenges to advisory planning commissions are few and

[0:19:33] Voice 14: far between because of that particular kind of context um i did include one it's an old one so

[0:19:40] Voice 14: some of it is a bit uh it was a case i think from 1980 um some things have changed since then

[0:19:48] Voice 14: And and so, you know, some of the things that occurred in that case still stand and others now, given the state of the law, not so much.

[0:19:57] Voice 14: I also included, but I'm not sure if we're going to have time today because an hour goes very, very quickly, especially if you have lots of questions, a case on conflict of interest.

[0:20:08] Voice 14: So we may or may not get to that today. But that's the other case I included in the package.

[0:20:13] Voice 14: package. Um, the first part that I just want to talk about is some of the basics behind what I'm

[0:20:21] Voice 14: about to, uh, when we get more into some of the details, but the basics about, uh, where do

[0:20:27] Voice 14: advisory planning commissions come from and what's your, your mandate? Uh, what can you, can you do

[0:20:35] Voice 14: and what can't you do? Um, and advisory planning commissions come, uh, out of the, or the authority

[0:20:42] Voice 14: to establish them is under the local government act and so when you get your package you'll also

[0:20:48] Voice 14: see there's a section it's section 461 of the local government act and that allows

[0:20:54] Voice 14: elected bodies to establish advisory planning commissions um the connection to the islands

[0:21:04] Voice 14: trust to local trust committees is under the islands trust act that links those uh those two

[0:21:10] Voice 14: provisions together um and the specific requirements these are the basics you have

[0:21:17] Voice 14: to meet these requirements there's no question about it it's set out right in the legislation

[0:21:22] Voice 14: um and so the first is is that the elected body must establish the advisory planning

[0:21:29] Voice 14: commission by bylaw if there's no bylaw there's no advisory planning commission

[0:21:35] Voice 14: and so i've also included the bylaw that establishes it from the salt spring island

[0:21:40] Voice 14: local trust committee and the other component of that is is that advisory planning commissions

[0:21:48] Voice 14: your scope of what your your job to do is um what's been referred to you by the local trust

[0:21:57] Voice 14: committee so the terms of reference as far as what you were they're actually seeking

[0:22:02] Voice 14: making some recommendation in relation to. The by-law itself requires that the procedures

[0:22:12] Voice 14: governing the commission are to be set out in that by-law. And so I'll also refer back to the

[0:22:19] Voice 14: by-law that sets out certain procedures you're required to follow. Some of the other straight up

[0:22:30] Voice 14: legal requirements in this section is that meetings of the advisory planning commission

[0:22:37] Voice 14: and I'll come back to what are meetings in a second because I know you do have some questions

[0:22:40] Voice 14: on that meetings of advisory planning commissions are are to be in the public realm they're open to

[0:22:49] Voice 14: the public and minutes of those meetings must be taken and a member of the public is entitled to

[0:22:58] Voice 14: ask to see those minutes. They must be made available. So there's a record of what was

[0:23:03] Voice 14: discussed. The other statutory requirement that comes out of the Local Government Act

[0:23:10] Voice 14: is that if you're considering an amendment to an official community plan or a bylaw like land use

[0:23:19] Voice 14: bylaw or a permit application like a development permit application, you're required to give the

[0:23:26] Voice 14: applicant the opportunity to attend the meeting and to be heard other than those basic requirements

[0:23:34] Voice 14: that's all the legislation says so then the next piece uh piece of the the puzzle is what does the

[0:23:41] Voice 14: bylaw say and so the bylaw about so included the package that you can refer to later um the bylaw

[0:23:49] Voice 14: establishes advisory planning commissions and then does set out more specific details regarding

[0:23:54] Voice 14: procedures that includes getting notice of meetings and how much time before the meeting

[0:24:02] Voice 14: must be given to the public where should that public notice be posted it also provides for

[0:24:09] Voice 14: who's entitled to come to the meeting there must be the secretary who is not a member of the

[0:24:17] Voice 14: commission it'll be a staff person of the islands trust that's the secretary and keeping

[0:24:23] Voice 14: minutes of the meeting there are also requirements for the chairperson as far as ensuring

[0:24:30] Voice 14: that the meetings meet the rules of procedural fairness and the legislative requirements

[0:24:37] Voice 14: and then there is also as far as how the process then itself is conducted regarding

[0:24:49] Voice 14: regarding getting an opportunity to be heard to the applicant.

[0:24:52] Voice 14: So that's, again, reflecting what the legislation says.

[0:24:55] Voice 14: And then also provides that if a member wishes to hear from a particular member of the public

[0:25:04] Voice 14: or an elected official or staff, that then they're also entitled to make comment in that context.

[0:25:11] Voice 14: So those the legislation and the bylaw are the the legal requirements.

[0:25:21] Voice 14: The other section that's quite important and is the one I'm going to be discussing more today is the open meeting rule requirement.

[0:25:32] Voice 14: And that comes out of the the community charter.

[0:25:36] Voice 14: and the community charter again is is legislation that governs local governments across BC

[0:25:44] Voice 14: it connects the islands trust through the islands trust act and it connects advisory boards

[0:25:53] Voice 14: that have been established by the local trust committee such as yourself

[0:26:00] Voice 14: in the provisions in the community charter and so the section that's applicable here

[0:26:06] Voice 14: is a requirement that all your meetings be open to the public it does specify when a meeting can

[0:26:18] Voice 14: be closed to the public that part is not particularly relevant to you it is more

[0:26:26] Voice 14: relevant to local governments when they're going into a closed meeting to discuss a particular

[0:26:31] Voice 14: matter that's listed there for example litigation there might be maybe some time that you do need

[0:26:39] Voice 14: legal advice and you're in a closed meeting then for that purpose but other than those very

[0:26:45] Voice 14: specified provisions in the legislation that states when you can be in a closed meeting

[0:26:51] Voice 14: all of your meetings have to be open and for the public to hear and the basic principle behind that

[0:27:00] Voice 14: is because it's about being open and transparent so the public can view the whole decision making

[0:27:06] Voice 14: or recommendation making in your context the whole process and that there's no secret meetings

[0:27:13] Voice 14: happening there's no behind the closed doors that all sudden there's no um it's not transparent to

[0:27:21] Voice 14: the public why maybe you made the recommendation you made and so there is some cases about what

[0:27:29] Voice 14: what is a meeting? When's a meeting a meeting? When I'm talking about meetings. And the case

[0:27:37] Voice 14: law, and this is where it has, it has kind of evolved from the case I've included in the package

[0:27:42] Voice 14: that is an advisory planning commission case that was from 1980. The cases since then have

[0:27:51] Voice 14: considered the open meeting rule requirement that is very similar across the country to the one

[0:27:58] Voice 14: that's in bc here and it's about um when when would someone when would that be considered a

[0:28:07] Voice 14: meeting and uh there's a couple cases about about that point um one is uh where um there's a

[0:28:17] Voice 14: retreat when um a local government has a retreat and all of council i'm talking about municipal

[0:28:25] Voice 14: council or the regional district board or the local trust committee whoever it is but if there

[0:28:31] Voice 14: is the decision-making body is all at a retreat and there is a discussion of business matters

[0:28:40] Voice 14: at that retreat the court has determined that that is considered a meeting that should be open

[0:28:48] Voice 14: into the public. The other case that comes up is in the context of where staff are giving briefings

[0:28:57] Voice 14: to an elected body. So again, the municipal council or regional district board where staff

[0:29:05] Voice 14: are giving briefings to council outside the designated public meeting times, just in the

[0:29:15] Voice 14: the boardroom at the municipal hall and the court has also said that's a meeting that should have

[0:29:21] Voice 14: been open to the public and the defense in both of those cases is well we weren't making an actual

[0:29:28] Voice 14: decision like why why do we have to be uh actually in an in a officially designated uh open meeting

[0:29:37] Voice 14: that the public can attend and and the court has said well because you're furthering public business

[0:29:44] Voice 14: you may not be actually making a decision on something but you as a body are at a you

[0:29:53] Voice 14: are in a quorum and could make a decision or in your context could make a recommendation

[0:30:00] Voice 14: recommendation, which then results in that being a meeting that should be open to the public.

[0:30:09] Voice 14: Now, those are some of the cases and how it's evolved. And of course, there's not going to be

[0:30:16] Voice 14: a bright line. I'm not going to be able to tell you, and I know as much as you would like to hear

[0:30:20] Voice 14: from me, don't worry, what you do over here is going to be completely fine. I can tell you for

[0:30:27] Voice 14: for sure the concerns and what's the basis in what's the legal requirements and what's the

[0:30:35] Voice 14: gist of why the why in the legislation it says that and often it's you know if it doesn't feel

[0:30:42] Voice 14: right it's probably not right right but the very clear kind of warning signs of if you are a quorum

[0:30:53] Voice 14: in your meeting outside your established meeting time that's a given right that's just a straight

[0:31:00] Voice 14: up very obvious but there's also going to be those times about well what if we get together

[0:31:07] Voice 14: informally what if we are um creating and i think there might have already been reference to this

[0:31:15] Voice 14: of subcommittees that we can have subcommittees and have discussions about the matter uh would

[0:31:22] Voice 14: would that, would that be okay? And my, my response to that is, is that one, it's going

[0:31:29] Voice 14: to depend on the facts. It's very factual. I appreciate in the context of certainly on,

[0:31:38] Voice 14: on the islands in particular it's, it's a small community and you're going to run into each other

[0:31:44] Voice 14: and you're going to have discussions about, you know, matters that you probably have something

[0:31:49] Voice 14: thing in common about and why you're on the commission together um i think that in that

[0:31:55] Voice 14: context that's appreciated and and that's probably fine where you know you run into each other and

[0:32:02] Voice 14: you have quick discussion uh then on the other side of that when what about where we actually

[0:32:08] Voice 14: create formal subcommittees to discuss certain business matters but we're not at a quorum what

[0:32:15] Voice 14: what do we do then? And in that context, my comments are, you've got to think about what is

[0:32:26] Voice 14: the basic legal requirements and principles behind that. And there's, I guess, a couple

[0:32:34] Voice 14: components to that. One is, if you're trying to circumvent the open meeting rule by doing

[0:32:39] Voice 14: something like that, then it's not going to be right, right? Because you're purposely trying

[0:32:45] Voice 14: trying to get around the legal requirement

[0:32:48] Voice 14: and the whole purpose of the legal requirement

[0:32:50] Voice 14: is to ensure transparency.

[0:32:53] Voice 14: And two, when I talked about the establishment

[0:32:57] Voice 14: of your commission,

[0:33:00] Voice 14: it's the local trust committee

[0:33:02] Voice 14: that has established that commission

[0:33:03] Voice 14: and established that advisory body

[0:33:06] Voice 14: to make a certain recommendation for them.

[0:33:11] Voice 14: The local trust committee

[0:33:12] Voice 14: committee has given that certain number of members that role. For that commission to create

[0:33:21] Voice 14: subcommittees, smaller groups, to meet and have that discussion is also circumventing

[0:33:28] Voice 14: the established advisory planning commission, right? It would be the local trust committee

[0:33:34] Voice 14: that should be creating those subcommittees. And I'll give you just one further example,

[0:33:39] Voice 14: because if you think, well, what difference does it make if we have these small subcommittees and

[0:33:44] Voice 14: have these casual discussions? All local governments, first of all, for example,

[0:33:52] Voice 14: municipal council, if they want to create a subcommittee, first of all, the legislation

[0:33:57] Voice 14: specifically provides that they can, and two, the open meeting rule requirement applies to those

[0:34:06] Voice 14: subcommittees okay so in that context you've got to think of it the same way for yourself

[0:34:15] Voice 14: one you've been created as a commission by the local trust committee and you have no authority

[0:34:23] Voice 14: to create subcommittees first of all and two if you created that subcommittee for the purpose of

[0:34:30] Voice 14: of circumventing having a meeting open to the public,

[0:34:37] Voice 14: that's also getting around the legislation

[0:34:38] Voice 14: that would normally require subcommittees

[0:34:40] Voice 14: to have the public meeting.

[0:34:45] Voice 14: So it's in that context, like I said, again,

[0:34:48] Voice 14: I appreciate that we don't live in a bubble

[0:34:53] Voice 14: where you're never going to run into each other

[0:34:55] Voice 14: or never have discussions about the matters

[0:34:57] Voice 14: that you're tasked with considering.

[0:35:00] Voice 14: hearing uh and so i don't think if you're casually having a discussion uh two of you about an issue

[0:35:07] Voice 14: that's fine but i think if you are starting to establish formal subcommittees and having

[0:35:14] Voice 14: formal discussions you're going to be running into some trouble um does anyone have any questions on

[0:35:20] Voice 14: on that uh

[0:35:21] Voice 8: yeah family

[0:35:22] Voice 9: has his hand up all

[0:35:24] Voice 8: right um i've been following you and but what if in fact

[0:35:29] Voice 8: I just feel inclined to call Ronan and James and just want to meet with them to how I feel

[0:35:39] Voice 8: about things are going. We're not a quorum. We're only three out of 12. Perhaps I'm a little pleased

[0:35:46] Voice 8: or displeased. I'd rather we go down route A than B. If I interpret you that properly,

[0:35:55] Voice 8: we've become a de facto subcommittee and we cannot do that but that seems especially restrictive

[0:36:04] Voice 14: yeah and i think again see that's it's going to depend factually on that right if you created a

[0:36:09] Voice 14: a subcommittee where the three of you hey let's create a committee where we meet every monday and

[0:36:14] Voice 14: we talk about this part of the task it starts looking much more uh like you're furthering

[0:36:22] Voice 14: business versus if you're having a casual conversation a discussion generally about

[0:36:28] Voice 14: some of the matters that you have been discussing to bounce some thoughts off each other that's

[0:36:33] Voice 14: probably fine right um it's it's just the more formal component of it where you truly are

[0:36:41] Voice 14: furthering business like if you tried to set it up for example let's say you had a phone call with

[0:36:46] Voice 14: with uh half the group and then everybody agreed that you'd have a phone call with the other half

[0:36:52] Voice 14: of the group and you're basically furthering what recommendation you want you want to provide

[0:36:59] Voice 14: that's really truly then moving business forward that should be the public should be entitled to

[0:37:04] Voice 14: see that process does that make sense okay

[0:37:08] Voice 8: i i i i think so but if i wish to complain to ronan

[0:37:13] Voice 8: and have James there as a witness.

[0:37:15] Voice 8: I'm really just not pleased the way things are going,

[0:37:18] Voice 8: or I'm pleased the way that they're going,

[0:37:20] Voice 8: but they're going too slowly.

[0:37:23] Voice 8: I interpret that as suggesting that is allowed.

[0:37:29] Voice 8: You're

[0:37:29] Voice 14: allowed to complain.

[0:37:30] Voice 14: Yes, you're allowed to complain.

[0:37:33] Voice 8: Thank you.

[0:37:36] Voice 5: I guess, Rowan, and for myself,

[0:37:39] Voice 5: I can just interrupt for a minute.

[0:37:40] Voice 5: I'm just not too clear right now why I'm here.

[0:37:43] Voice 5: It seemed to me I came with good intentions

[0:37:46] Voice 5: to offer ideas, research solutions that might help us on Salt Spring.

[0:37:51] Voice 5: And it seems to me we're kind of putting the cart before the horse

[0:37:54] Voice 5: if we don't generate ideas prior to looking whether these things are legal or not.

[0:37:59] Voice 5: It seems to me something, an exercise that I'm not really that interested in pursuing.

[0:38:04] Voice 5: I think Louise in the very beginning spelled out quite clearly what our roles are

[0:38:11] Voice 5: and what the restraints would be.

[0:38:13] Voice 5: And I think we understood that quite easily from the beginning.

[0:38:16] Voice 5: concerned with the very limited time that we have to meet as a group, whether we're just some sort

[0:38:20] Voice 5: of a puppet shadow or something for Island Trust, for public perception, or whether we're actually

[0:38:26] Voice 5: here to generate good ideas and have some good lively discussions. I can't see that happening

[0:38:30] Voice 5: right now.

[0:38:35] Voice 9: Thanks for your comment. Alicia, would you like to respond to that? But there's some

[0:38:39] Voice 9: other hands up. I see Mike and Najma.

[0:38:42] Voice 14: Yeah, I mean, in the context of if you're inquiring

[0:38:47] Voice 14: as far as what's the advisory planning commission's role the reason why you do have those

[0:38:52] Voice 14: open meetings is so that you can bounce ideas off each other and have discussions that the public

[0:38:58] Voice 14: can see right and ultimately come to some recommendations to provide to the local trust

[0:39:03] Voice 14: committee and so it's a very important process in the public process and the only legal point

[0:39:09] Voice 14: that I'm making in the context of the local trust committee is they're ultimately the decision maker

[0:39:14] Voice 14: right and so they can choose to give whatever weight they wish to give to your recommendations

[0:39:20] Voice 14: but certainly if the process hasn't been followed in a transparent manner the local trust committee

[0:39:27] Voice 14: might be concerned in how much weight they do give to the recommendation as a result of that

[0:39:32] Voice 5: 20 i was always under the assumption that the taxpayer was the ultimate decision maker on this

[0:39:37] Voice 5: that we endow responsibility to our council members and to trust to make the best decisions

[0:39:43] Voice 5: for us and so I guess I'm a little bit confused about that part. Thanks James

[0:39:52] Voice 9: I've got Mikan and Najma. I had

[0:39:55] Voice 10: my hand up first.

[0:39:56] Voice 9: Oh sorry Najma. I did.

[0:39:58] Voice 9: I'm sorry I

[0:39:59] Voice 9: know again please forgive the context it's very difficult for me to sort of

[0:40:03] Voice 9: notice the book. It's

[0:40:04] Voice 10: all right I just you know my hand is it a little bit of a

[0:40:07] Voice 10: different color so maybe it was harder to see there but um okay so thanks so

[0:40:12] Voice 10: much i don't want to waste too much time on this really but the subcommittee thing

[0:40:15] Voice 10: i do understand um because i've been also looking through the apc operating guidelines policy

[0:40:20] Voice 10: um that is directly related to how you know our operating guidelines basically so if um

[0:40:29] Voice 10: i'm looking at it now so it says that we you know so i know that the ltc can um create a subcommittee

[0:40:38] Voice 10: And we can recommend for the LTC to create a subcommittee based on the fact that you hear we're hearing our frustrations here of like feeling like there's not enough time because with subcommittees that are transparent, we could create small working groups that then inform the APC, right?

[0:40:58] Voice 10: right, that would be the intention.

[0:41:00] Voice 10: It's not to meddle or go behind.

[0:41:02] Voice 10: It really is just a forward, you know,

[0:41:06] Voice 10: getting a greater kind of deeper exploration of the issues.

[0:41:10] Voice 10: So, you know, for the reason of looking at historical issues

[0:41:16] Voice 10: and future solutions.

[0:41:17] Voice 10: So that is something we haven't had time

[0:41:19] Voice 10: to work through as a group.

[0:41:20] Voice 10: So that is something immediately that a subcommittee

[0:41:23] Voice 10: that could also include a planner

[0:41:26] Voice 10: and also subcommittees from what I understand

[0:41:28] Voice 10: and can also include other members of the greater community that would be relevant to that as well

[0:41:34] Voice 10: as yeah just working on the public engagement process as well I think that create that is

[0:41:40] Voice 10: actually in our terms of reference specifically that that is something that we will be working

[0:41:45] Voice 10: on so I really feel like that is an important component so that we can get to a place where

[0:41:51] Voice 10: we're creating some kind of plan for events charrettes or something to engage our community

[0:41:56] Voice 10: And I have a lot of cool ideas around that, and I'd love to make that happen.

[0:42:01] Voice 10: So I understand the legalities, and I also understand that we do have some flexibility.

[0:42:08] Voice 10: And I do understand as well that the chair can actually call meetings with five days

[0:42:15] Voice 10: notice to the LTC, as well as, you know, I think it's like three days that there would

[0:42:21] Voice 10: have to be a bulletin posted.

[0:42:22] Voice 10: So, and that is, was in the policy, right?

[0:42:28] Voice 10: That is in the policy.

[0:42:29] Voice 10: So that's 4.3 of the operating guidelines policy,

[0:42:32] Voice 10: which is public notice of meetings,

[0:42:34] Voice 10: how they must be posted as well as 4.1,

[0:42:39] Voice 10: where it's what the APC chair has called a meeting.

[0:42:42] Voice 10: So therefore the APC chair can call a meeting.

[0:42:45] Voice 10: We are, we do have some autonomy,

[0:42:47] Voice 10: and I just think that we need to flex that a little bit

[0:42:50] Voice 10: so that we can um you know be a you know a truly awesome advisory you know commission because we're

[0:42:58] Voice 10: actually really amazing and we are not trying to meddle or be anarchists uh as much as we are just

[0:43:05] Voice 10: trying to find ways that we can um steer the process of our rec you know creating our

[0:43:11] Voice 10: recommendations thank you sorry thank

[0:43:14] Voice 9: you very good points um alicia do you have

[0:43:20] Voice 9: of response yeah

[0:43:21] Voice 14: i mean in the context of uh so the bylaw too which would govern does provide

[0:43:27] Voice 14: that meetings must be given five calendars day notice and posted on the in the same board as

[0:43:34] Voice 14: where uh local trust committee meetings are are also um posted um so it's only in the context i

[0:43:42] Voice 14: I, again, appreciate that the commission has a certain role, right?

[0:43:49] Voice 14: And that's to provide the recommendations in the context of all the information they

[0:43:55] Voice 14: can obtain.

[0:43:56] Voice 14: And I think the need for meetings is not unique, obviously, to the Advisory Planning

[0:44:03] Voice 14: Commission.

[0:44:04] Voice 14: I think I'd hear the same thing from the Local Trust Committee.

[0:44:07] Voice 14: I hear the same thing from Municipal Council.

[0:44:08] Voice 14: council, I hear the same thing from subcommittees of municipal council, right? Because as you can

[0:44:14] Voice 14: imagine, huge cities where they're trying to get things done, they try and delegate into smaller

[0:44:21] Voice 14: committees. So it's in that context, it's just, you do still need to meet the minimum legal

[0:44:30] Voice 14: requirements. And you also have to be cognizant of what your establishment of an advisory board

[0:44:37] Voice 14: board has been um and so it is ultimately the local trust committee who determines what

[0:44:42] Voice 14: commissions are established what size and what items are referred to them uh so outside the

[0:44:51] Voice 14: context of the establishment and the requirement that meetings are open it's about resources i

[0:44:56] Voice 14: think that and that's a discussion that the commission needs to have with um staff and

[0:45:02] Voice 14: whatnot as far as what's possible in the context of time of staff and money and all that sorry just

[0:45:11] Voice 10: as a quick follow-up to that so you do say referrals and i and i understand that we have

[0:45:15] Voice 10: already been referred and that is our terms of reference yes um so you know because there is one

[0:45:21] Voice 10: bit in there that i saw in the bylaws that does say that uh when when you know the chair can call

[0:45:26] Voice 10: a meeting when something is referred so now that we have our terms of reference uh that means that

[0:45:31] Voice 10: that a meeting can be called.

[0:45:32] Voice 10: I also understand that the LTC can appoint us a secretary,

[0:45:37] Voice 10: that we would have to have a secretary at that meeting

[0:45:39] Voice 10: to take minutes.

[0:45:41] Voice 10: But if they do not have the resources

[0:45:44] Voice 10: to provide us with a secretary,

[0:45:46] Voice 10: that the chair has the right to appoint one.

[0:45:48] Voice 10: Is that correct?

[0:45:51] Voice 14: I don't know about the right to, oh, wait a sec.

[0:45:56] Voice 14: It just says under the bylaw,

[0:45:58] Voice 14: if a secretary has not been appointed.

[0:46:00] Voice 14: it uh so if a secretary has been appointed which i understand there has been a secretary appointed

[0:46:06] Voice 14: for the commission um the commission may continue to meet provide the chairperson appoints a

[0:46:14] Voice 14: secretary yeah

[0:46:15] Voice 10: so that's like right yeah there was another meeting called say and our minute taker

[0:46:20] Voice 10: wasn't available and louisa said we just don't have the resources on that day to do it because

[0:46:25] Voice 10: we have all these other things going on but it works for our group to meet um then the chair

[0:46:31] Voice 10: could hypothetically um one that you know that the ltc would then also have to um approve i guess or

[0:46:41] Voice 10: would they need to as long as it's someone not in our group that can take properly no i'm not trying

[0:46:47] Voice 10: to be pushy i'm just trying no

[0:46:48] Voice 14: i'm i'm just also want to make it clear that's that no you cannot do

[0:46:52] Voice 14: do that uh because the the bylaw provides that if a secretary is appointed appointed in that role

[0:46:58] Voice 14: uh it's not that if the secretary is not available you can go and do

[0:47:03] Voice 14: appoint a different one that's not what the bylaw says um so it's only contemplating if there is no

[0:47:10] Voice 14: secretary appointed um and again it's

[0:47:14] Voice 10: like for the whole thing kind of thing yeah yeah oh but

[0:47:19] Voice 10: then the chair could point one so that's okay so that's where a limitation where we come up against

[0:47:25] Voice 10: a

[0:47:25] Voice 9: yeah

[0:47:26] Voice 10: that's interesting um

[0:47:29] Voice 9: just uh we're running close in time i see that mike has had his hand up

[0:47:33] Voice 9: for a while and also um so for now mike i don't see any other hands up

[0:47:40] Voice 4: yeah i'll try and be brief

[0:47:42] Voice 4: uh appreciate what everyone's uh putting in and we're 20 plus people here um i agree with what

[0:47:48] Voice 4: what Najma and James have brought in.

[0:47:53] Voice 4: You know, I appreciate all the work behind the scenes

[0:47:56] Voice 4: and that we have to set the correct ground rules at the beginning.

[0:47:59] Voice 4: At the same time, we're 20 people who've gathered here

[0:48:03] Voice 4: to be able to discuss affordable housing

[0:48:06] Voice 4: and other housing concerns on Salt Spring

[0:48:07] Voice 4: and get ahead in a way that hasn't been done

[0:48:10] Voice 4: in the last 20 years of consultations.

[0:48:14] Voice 4: I'm wondering if presentations like we have today from Alyssa,

[0:48:17] Voice 4: and Alyssa I really appreciate your presentation as well just logistically if in the future this

[0:48:23] Voice 4: is something that we can do as like it's a video that's sent to us and then we've all watched it

[0:48:27] Voice 4: beforehand and then we have half an hour or 20 minutes with Alyssa or the presenter to go through

[0:48:34] Voice 4: our questions so that we can spend the most of our time actually meeting about what we're all

[0:48:38] Voice 4: passionate about and what our skills have been chosen to do thank

[0:48:43] Voice 9: you very good comment um mirrors

[0:48:46] Voice 9: Yeah,

[0:48:51] Voice 7: I'm not sure if the other members of the task force are feeling like there's a

[0:48:59] Voice 7: lot of, the number of times that what we're allowed to do and what the requirements are,

[0:49:06] Voice 7: it feels like a straitjacket is being put on creativity and our discourse.

[0:49:13] Voice 7: course. By my calculation, in three meetings, we'll have spent a quarter of our time on what

[0:49:26] Voice 7: we are allowed to do, what we cannot do, how we're constrained. And that seems to be a

[0:49:35] Voice 7: a misappropriation of how to spend the little time we have.

[0:49:41] Voice 7: You know, if we meet for two years, 24 months, two hours,

[0:49:47] Voice 7: that's 48 hours and basically a working week.

[0:49:54] Voice 7: And we are tasked with taking into account considerations

[0:49:59] Voice 7: around climate change, first nations,

[0:50:04] Voice 7: housing for those who for the homeless low-cost housing environmental considerations

[0:50:15] Voice 7: it's a very complex thing to do in one work week and we're spending so much time on constraints

[0:50:22] Voice 7: so i i have a question in um that you know you've spent at least you've spent time talking about

[0:50:30] Voice 7: about what the requirements are and what we're allowed

[0:50:33] Voice 7: and we're not allowed to do.

[0:50:35] Voice 7: What if we, out of passion and our deep commitment

[0:50:41] Voice 7: to making a difference on housing on this island,

[0:50:46] Voice 7: what if we were to meet anyways?

[0:50:49] Voice 7: What if we were to meet as our group

[0:50:55] Voice 7: and get to know each other,

[0:50:59] Voice 7: begin to understand each other's points of view?

[0:51:02] Voice 7: the complexity and the scope of the task is seems insurmountable in a week especially if we don't

[0:51:10] Voice 7: know each other and what our concerns are so if we meet uh against what you say the requirements are

[0:51:18] Voice 7: i'd like to know what the consequences are well

[0:51:24] Voice 14: in the context of if you choose not to comply with

[0:51:27] Voice 14: with the legal requirements, I guess the consequences are one,

[0:51:32] Voice 14: that you undermine the public process.

[0:51:38] Voice 14: And it creates for the public a sense of,

[0:51:43] Voice 14: this is not a legitimate process.

[0:51:46] Voice 14: Secrecy results in people questioning the process,

[0:51:51] Voice 14: and you don't want that, right?

[0:51:54] Voice 14: You can think about it in the context of,

[0:51:57] Voice 14: even with the local trust committee,

[0:51:59] Voice 14: how would you like if they just had secret meetings

[0:52:02] Voice 14: and you had no idea what they were ever talking about?

[0:52:05] Voice 14: It's that part that's extremely important

[0:52:07] Voice 14: and the legislature thought it was important enough

[0:52:10] Voice 14: to say you need to have open meetings

[0:52:12] Voice 14: so that the public can come and watch,

[0:52:15] Voice 14: it's open and transparent so we can watch the process

[0:52:18] Voice 14: to give it credibility.

[0:52:21] Voice 7: And I would agree with that for decision makers,

[0:52:26] Voice 7: but we are here to provide advice.

[0:52:28] Voice 7: We don't make the decision.

[0:52:29] Voice 7: The decisions are to be made by the trustees

[0:52:34] Voice 7: and spending an enormous amount of time

[0:52:38] Voice 7: to come up with recommendations

[0:52:43] Voice 7: that may or may not be acted on

[0:52:47] Voice 7: and then be further constrained

[0:52:49] Voice 7: in being able to even make recommendations,

[0:52:53] Voice 7: it seems like a fool's errand.

[0:52:54] Voice 7: And

[0:52:57] Voice 14: those are concerns that every administrative decision maker and recommendation maker deal with.

[0:53:06] Voice 14: And I spend an enormous amount of time in court with challenges of procedural fairness, ensuring that people have the right to be heard and that notice is given and that they're aware of what their governments are doing, including recommendation makers as yourself.

[0:53:24] Voice 14: and recommendation makers in the context of you're providing a recommendation to the local

[0:53:32] Voice 14: trust committee yes the local trust committee is ultimately the decision maker and they don't have

[0:53:39] Voice 14: to follow your recommendation they may may follow your recommendation but if the process that you

[0:53:45] Voice 14: didn't comply with legal requirements leading up to that recommendation haven't been followed

[0:53:49] Voice 14: The local trust committee then may choose to give it no weight.

[0:53:54] Voice 14: And so

[0:53:55] Voice 17: all that time and money,

[0:53:57] Voice 14: but all that time spent trying to provide recommendations that are helpful gets undermined by a process of not following the legal requirements.

[0:54:09] Voice 7: I'm involved with

[0:54:10] Voice 7: the group in New Zealand.

[0:54:11] Voice 7: going

[0:54:11] Voice 14: to make the third comment the third comment in that context is if you choose not to follow the

[0:54:16] Voice 14: legal requirements at any point in time you may also uh be uh removed from the commission

[0:54:22] Voice 14: uh because you're you're choosing to ultimately not follow the specific uh legal process um so

[0:54:32] Voice 14: that's the only reason why and the reason why i'm giving this talk to you is it's not unique i give

[0:54:37] Voice 14: it to local governments across bc all the time and i know that everybody would like to have

[0:54:44] Voice 14: move business forward quicker it would be a lot easier if you didn't have to have open

[0:54:49] Voice 14: meetings and have to follow rules of procedural fairness but they exist to ensure transparency

[0:54:54] Voice 14: in the process and they're quite important yeah

[0:54:57] Voice 7: so i'm involved in the group in where in new zealand

[0:55:01] Voice 7: they are looking for new ideas they are embracing uh innovation they are they're not uh they just

[0:55:11] Voice 7: want to hear what the good ideas are you know and we could be spending our time trying to figure out

[0:55:16] Voice 7: how to solve the housing crisis on salisbury spending as much time as we care to it's our

[0:55:24] Voice 7: volunteer time we're not getting paid for this you are and uh that would be time well spent

[0:55:34] Voice 7: really actually going after it and trying to figure out what the best we've got a diverse

[0:55:38] Voice 7: group of people here uh and i think that you know we could do something great if we put our minds to

[0:55:45] Voice 7: it but if we're hampered and in the way that you're suggesting with all your regulations

[0:55:52] Voice 7: and requirements and allowed to's and I don't think we have a chance of getting anything done.

[0:55:58] Voice 5: Might I suggest

[0:56:00] Voice 5: too Mayor that that's maybe why nothing has been getting done for a long time.

[0:56:04] Voice 5: I think we need to start with an open platform and open the door a little bit and deal with the

[0:56:09] Voice 5: legality of this later but start to generate those ideas. We've got some wonderful people

[0:56:13] Voice 5: on this panel and I think it'd be a travesty if we don't get to use them.

[0:56:18] Voice 9: Thanks. Can I just make

[0:56:20] Voice 9: a couple points, a couple questions. One is how we might be able to legally move forward. So one

[0:56:27] Voice 9: thing is I'd like to make two points and then maybe Alicia can respond. So the first point is

[0:56:32] Voice 9: also we've been told that we can't share emails collectively, but I've also been told that so

[0:56:39] Voice 9: long as the emails don't contain efforts to make decisions, that there actually is no reason why

[0:56:46] Voice 9: we can't share emails sharing information and you know background information with each other

[0:56:52] Voice 9: so that's one question how can we share emails and information with each other

[0:56:56] Voice 9: as a group the second point is how can we everyone seems to want to meet more regularly

[0:57:03] Voice 9: so how can we meet more regularly to make this process more achievable so

[0:57:13] Voice 14: in the context of

[0:57:14] Voice 14: the sharing of emails I'm not sure specifically the reference there it's one thing if you're

[0:57:22] Voice 14: sending out an email just saying here's the attached information for the next meeting

[0:57:30] Voice 14: you know in that context I think the concern around if you start as a group in an email

[0:57:39] Voice 14: having a discussion that really should be being done in the meeting right so because email now

[0:57:45] Voice 14: is so easy to say, well, I'm going to make this recommendation. What does everybody else think?

[0:57:50] Voice 14: And everybody starts emailing back and forth. Then you really truly are doing what you're

[0:57:56] Voice 14: supposed to be doing in an open meeting to the public. So the public can actually see that

[0:58:00] Voice 14: decision-making process. And that is of concern.

[0:58:05] Voice 9: Can I speak to that point, just

[0:58:07] Voice 9: to clarify what

[0:58:08] Voice 9: I mean, isn't exactly the opposite of that. It's more to here's this really great thing that they're

[0:58:15] Voice 9: are doing in nelson um thought you guys should know about this or um this is a really great you

[0:58:20] Voice 9: know sharing information that's relevant to our discussion um or maybe someone's sharing some

[0:58:26] Voice 9: ideas maybe something hey this is a good idea that or this is an idea that i think i'd have

[0:58:29] Voice 9: without creating a discussion around it just the opportunity to be able to share information

[0:58:33] Voice 9: so other people are aware of what other people are are seeing and thinking um

[0:58:38] Voice 14: now would that be

[0:58:40] Voice 14: included though on the as part of the information package for in the agenda for a public meeting

[0:58:47] Voice 14: later why

[0:58:48] Voice 9: not the email and the information shared could be attached to the public agenda

[0:58:52] Voice 14: yeah so in that context that's that's the process as far as how does it come

[0:58:58] Voice 14: to the advisory planning commission to discuss right it's the same thing with all elected

[0:59:03] Voice 14: bodies where if someone writes to municipal council that letter gets put on an agenda for

[0:59:12] Voice 14: council in a public an open meeting to receive right so that then the public knows someone has

[0:59:19] Voice 14: expressed a view regarding x not in the secret realm and so the same thing in the context of

[0:59:25] Voice 14: if you want to have a discussion regarding an initiative that's going on in new zealand or

[0:59:31] Voice 14: somewhere else and you want to put a some report on the agenda for the advisory planning commission

[0:59:36] Voice 14: to have a discussion about that's the process how to do it does that make sense um

[0:59:44] Voice 9: kind of it

[0:59:45] Voice 9: wasn't entirely clear does that mean that we um so we we are able to then share uh information

[0:59:52] Voice 9: with each other so long as it's included in the next agenda afterwards well

[0:59:56] Voice 14: it would be what the

[0:59:57] Voice 14: the proper process and staff can probably.

[1:00:00] Voice 14: speak up here if i'm saying something that's not your normal process but what you would do is

[1:00:04] Voice 14: request with staff to put it on the agenda for the next meeting right and

[1:00:09] Voice 14: then it would get put

[1:00:10] Voice 14: on the meeting is that right louisa you're nodding yes lose

[1:00:15] Voice 9: his hands up uh

[1:00:16] Voice 3: thanks chair i just want

[1:00:18] Voice 3: to add to that um i understand sometimes the document can be quite large uh elisa you can

[1:00:27] Voice 3: can let me know if that's not appropriate.

[1:00:29] Voice 3: I think our recommendation is to send it to staff

[1:00:33] Voice 3: rather than copy all the members,

[1:00:35] Voice 3: send it to staff and staff will distribute the information

[1:00:38] Voice 3: and that can prevent accidentally making a comment

[1:00:43] Voice 3: that could be persuasive or otherwise.

[1:00:46] Voice 3: So that's our recommendation.

[1:00:48] Voice 3: So we can still send things,

[1:00:50] Voice 3: even though we eventually still repeat it

[1:00:53] Voice 3: in the agenda package,

[1:00:54] Voice 3: but we can we'll be happy to send it ahead of time if it is to us I think our concern is

[1:01:00] Voice 3: at one point I remember is when it was sent to the entire group and there was some comment made

[1:01:08] Voice 3: and I think I stepped in to suggest not to reply to all that's just a way to protect you

[1:01:14] Voice 3: so that you're not making comment that can constitute I guess like Alyssa said leading to

[1:01:22] Voice 3: to a recommendation, even though you were not

[1:01:25] Voice 3: at the time making a recommendation.

[1:01:28] Voice 9: Okay.

[1:01:29] Voice 14: Yeah, and that kind of information, again,

[1:01:31] Voice 14: can also then be subject to the Freedom of Information

[1:01:35] Voice 14: and Protection of Privacy Act, right,

[1:01:37] Voice 14: as far as email correspondence,

[1:01:40] Voice 14: what was being discussed in the context outside a meeting.

[1:01:45] Voice 14: And so that's why that measures in place

[1:01:48] Voice 14: of send it to staff, include everybody

[1:01:51] Voice 14: so they know you're sending it staff then it gets put on the agenda and then the discussion

[1:01:55] Voice 14: happens in the open meeting same thing as it happens for uh for for all bodies okay so and

[1:02:03] Voice 9: as far as the the second point that i made about how can we meet more regularly yeah and that's

[1:02:10] Voice 14: more a question of for uh staff resources because i know there are lots of advisory planning

[1:02:18] Voice 14: planning commissions and other committees and other meetings happening and

[1:02:22] Voice 14: having the time and resources to coordinate all of that is really more of an

[1:02:29] Voice 14: internal thing about what's actually practical based on the resources that

[1:02:35] Voice 14: that's available.

[1:02:38] Voice 9: So just to, just to comment to that,

[1:02:40] Voice 9: you don't necessarily have to respond, but one is we, you know,

[1:02:44] Voice 9: the OTC can ask for more resources to,

[1:02:47] Voice 9: Two, it seems to me that these meetings right now,

[1:02:49] Voice 9: there's a number of staff members present,

[1:02:51] Voice 9: but really all we need is a minute taker.

[1:02:54] Voice 9: If we want to have discussions

[1:02:55] Voice 9: that like people are talking about,

[1:02:57] Voice 9: just wanting to get to know each other better,

[1:02:58] Voice 9: get to know what our points of view are.

[1:03:01] Voice 9: It's less of a decision-making conversation

[1:03:03] Voice 9: than it is more about trying to understand

[1:03:05] Voice 9: that all we really need is a minute taker.

[1:03:07] Voice 9: So it doesn't require the resources of five staff members

[1:03:09] Voice 9: or six, it could be just one.

[1:03:12] Voice 9: I just want to make that comment.

[1:03:14] Voice 9: Mike, can I see your hand is up?

[1:03:18] Voice 9: Mike?

[1:03:20] Voice 4: Yes, thank you. Again, I'll try to be brief. I agree with Ronan's line of questioning.

[1:03:28] Voice 4: It seems completely reasonable for us to have a way that, let's say we meet on the 1st of July

[1:03:34] Voice 4: and the package for the next one goes out July 27th and somebody on July 3rd has an idea,

[1:03:41] Voice 4: say, hey, I just learned about what's happening in Prince George on this and this policy issue,

[1:03:45] Voice 4: And they send it democratically to all the members of the group, not selectively, that we should have a mechanism for getting that done on July 3rd so that we can think about it.

[1:03:54] Voice 4: And I agree, you know, there's no point in having commentary, but just purely for information.

[1:04:01] Voice 4: And it is, and I share, I forget who said it, but I think Maror, you know, I don't think any of us wants to be part of an exercise that is just an exercise.

[1:04:12] Voice 4: size. We're actually here to work and we're willing to give our time and there's got to be

[1:04:18] Voice 4: ways that we can actually have an impact and actually contribute to solving the housing crisis

[1:04:23] Voice 4: here.

[1:04:23] Voice 9: Thank you. Excellent. Thank you. Good point. Just to be clear, Mike, and so Louisa did explain

[1:04:32] Voice 9: there is a mechanism that we can employ that is to share information with staff and ask them to

[1:04:39] Voice 9: circulate it prior to the next meeting, so they can circulate it immediately, we have

[1:04:44] Voice 9: a chance to review it, and then it will also be included on the next agenda package.

[1:04:47] Voice 4: Okay, so

[1:04:48] Voice 4: we can ask them to circulate it immediately, not just in the five-day

[1:04:52] Voice 4: ahead.

[1:04:52] Voice 4: Exactly.

[1:04:52] Voice 4: And the one small question also, so Alyssa, is there anything in the rules that prevents

[1:05:01] Voice 4: me from, say, meeting one-on-one with anyone on the committee outside with no reason, no

[1:05:09] Voice 4: no intention of discussing policy or whatever, just get to know.

[1:05:14] Voice 4: And my intention is I want to get to know each and every person, again,

[1:05:17] Voice 4: democratically. Is there anything that prevents me from doing that?

[1:05:21] Voice 14: Yeah, I don't see there, there's, there's no problem with that.

[1:05:25] Voice 14: There's probably not even a problem if you all got together in a, in a,

[1:05:29] Voice 14: in a social setting, not to discuss, obviously,

[1:05:34] Voice 14: how you're going to proceed with business in respect of the commission,

[1:05:38] Voice 14: but just to get to know each other. Hey,

[1:05:40] Voice 14: who are you where do you live like that's that's fine right um I think when you're all there though

[1:05:46] Voice 14: and you're at a quorum and then you start kind of rolling into that that's where the danger happens

[1:05:51] Voice 14: and so uh in the case that I mentioned about even like the the retreat you

[1:05:57] Voice 14: you really have to make sure you don't talk about uh the issues when you're just getting to know

[1:06:04] Voice 14: each other um but the the form that you just mentioned as far as two members getting together

[1:06:10] Voice 14: other for coffee and just saying hi we're on the same commission together just want to introduce

[1:06:15] Voice 14: myself what's your background not a problem at all well

[1:06:19] Voice 5: i would think i'd want to meet with one

[1:06:21] Voice 5: or two of these members that i admire a little bit and and get some of their ideas about housing

[1:06:26] Voice 5: i'm not interested whether they play guitar or they do ballroom dancing or whatever i want to

[1:06:31] Voice 5: talk about the issues of housing with them can i not do that i've got no vested interest in it i'm

[1:06:38] Voice 5: volunteering to try to help provide affordable housing for people that don't advocate for that

[1:06:43] Voice 5: and so I don't understand the issue of getting together even as a whole group of us in Bryce's

[1:06:49] Voice 5: barn or at Yvonne's in front of her roses there and we can all brainstorm a little bit and come

[1:06:54] Voice 5: up with some ideas which to date we haven't even generated.

[1:06:58] Voice 14: Yeah it's the brainstorming though the

[1:07:01] Voice 14: the process leading to the formation of and determination of ultimate recommendations

[1:07:06] Voice 14: recommendations is where that the public would like to see that right the public would like to

[1:07:11] Voice 14: see your discussions around what thoughts do you have and why regarding housing and where you

[1:07:18] Voice 14: ultimately end up in your recommendation well we can

[1:07:21] Voice 5: discuss we can certainly publish that

[1:07:24] Voice 5: information we can we can have a minute taker and we can put that information down for the public

[1:07:29] Voice 5: that's not a problem well

[1:07:32] Voice 14: that you need to have a meeting

[1:07:35] Voice 9: if you've got your barn

[1:07:37] Voice 5: available stay or or vaughn or something maybe we can get together

[1:07:41] Voice 5: sometime before and have a chance to give us some ideas okay

[1:07:45] Voice 9: i've got i've got thank you james i've

[1:07:47] Voice 9: got neshma and yvonne um

[1:07:50] Voice 10: yeah so just quickly i think it would be in the ltc's uh best interest

[1:07:54] Voice 10: and ours if we can collaborate on creating subcommittees that are structured so that we

[1:08:00] Voice 10: we can do these brainstorming sessions in a way

[1:08:03] Voice 10: that brings it back to the group, you know,

[1:08:05] Voice 10: and we can do that.

[1:08:06] Voice 10: I mean, you said, yeah,

[1:08:07] Voice 10: you can't just be meeting outside public, you know,

[1:08:10] Voice 10: it has to be a public meeting.

[1:08:11] Voice 10: And of course we would, I mean,

[1:08:12] Voice 10: look at the technology these days, you know,

[1:08:14] Voice 10: we can easily do live streams.

[1:08:17] Voice 10: We can do all of that if we just have the support

[1:08:22] Voice 10: of staff in the LTC.

[1:08:23] Voice 10: And if it's a resources issue or whatever it is,

[1:08:26] Voice 10: I think that it's about kind of pushing through

[1:08:29] Voice 10: and figuring it out so that we can kind of make something innovative happen and maybe realizing

[1:08:34] Voice 10: that these kinds of things is why we are why it's been so long that it feels like not a lot gets

[1:08:39] Voice 10: done and so um yeah yeah i just i just see that there's there's room to work together to make it

[1:08:46] Voice 10: happen so i'm still hopeful james don't give up and nobody give up you just yet we got this

[1:08:53] Voice 14: and my just my one comment we're having a meeting right now over zoom but the reason why we can have

[1:08:58] Voice 14: a meeting over zoom is because of covid and there's a there's an order right now that allows

[1:09:04] Voice 14: meetings to occur electronically and uh once the order gets rescinded meetings are required to be

[1:09:11] Voice 14: in person um so

[1:09:13] Voice 17: i just want to

[1:09:14] Voice 14: yeah just

[1:09:15] Voice 17: want to make

[1:09:15] Voice 14: that note that even though we're having an

[1:09:17] Voice 14: electronic meeting right now we might not you might not be able to do that because of the legal

[1:09:22] Voice 14: requirements later, depending on what happens. That's better.

[1:09:41] Voice 1: Can you hear me now? Great. I

[1:09:43] Voice 1: think it would be tragic to lose the enthusiasm that we all have. We've had wonderful, have

[1:09:49] Voice 1: wonderful ideas. And it's a shame to feel that that gets dented. And I think it would be wonderful

[1:09:56] Voice 1: if we could just get together to know each other and maybe share ideas and take notes of them and

[1:10:04] Voice 1: I cannot see honestly why that could not be allowed because we're not doing anything illegal

[1:10:09] Voice 1: we're all here for the betterment and the good of having these wonderful ideas to make this process

[1:10:16] Voice 1: work and I think if we all feel like we're wasting our times and we can't do this and we can't do

[1:10:22] Voice 1: that there's there's a terrible feeling of not getting anywhere um in that sort of scenario

[1:10:28] Voice 1: and i want this to succeed and i want us to make a difference um so i think by us getting together

[1:10:35] Voice 1: and getting to know each other that can only be a good thing not a bad thing and i just want to know

[1:10:42] Voice 1: is that okay if we do that do we can we get together as a group the 12 of us or would we

[1:10:48] Voice 1: we have to do six and six. What is the situation then?

[1:10:54] Voice 14: Yeah, I'm mindful of the time. I'll just

[1:10:56] Voice 14: answer that comment is, unfortunately, there are the legal requirements. And so the legal

[1:11:06] Voice 14: requirements aren't preventing you from getting together and sharing your ideas. The legal

[1:11:11] Voice 14: requirements are just ensuring that the public has been given notice of that meeting, that they're

[1:11:16] Voice 14: are entitled to to watch it and that minutes are taken at that meeting with the secretary

[1:11:20] Voice 14: those are the basic requirements and and they're they're not um for all the reasons i've already

[1:11:27] Voice 14: spoken to as to why but what you've just described as far as where you want this to go um and having

[1:11:35] Voice 14: an impact ultimately it's important for the public to see that to see your discussions and then also

[1:11:43] Voice 14: in the context of making recommendations to the local trust committee that they're given the weight

[1:11:48] Voice 14: they deserve because the process has been transparent and that's the whole I guess point

[1:11:54] Voice 14: is to the seminar today this is a seminar I'm volunteering my time and to provide these seminars

[1:12:00] Voice 14: to local governments all the time because it is very important that you understand the legal

[1:12:05] Voice 14: basis why I'm saying what I'm saying thank

[1:12:09] Voice 9: you I see Stanley and okay

[1:12:11] Voice 8: I have a specific suggestion

[1:12:13] Voice 8: We've listened to this and we've gotten to some conflicting views and ideas.

[1:12:18] Voice 8: But let's just say that the committee wished to establish an ideas drop box to which any member of the committee.

[1:12:27] Voice 8: And once we make it in terms of dealing with ideas that would help resolve the housing crisis on Salt Spring and the boxes established, it is open to the committee.

[1:12:39] Voice 8: The fact that it exists would also be made known to the public.

[1:12:45] Voice 8: And once things were in the box, the drop box, people individually could look at these ideas.

[1:12:53] Voice 8: Now, is there other committee members, other members of the public?

[1:12:56] Voice 8: Is there any legal difficulty that we would confront if we were to vote to establish such a drop box?

[1:13:07] Voice 14: that that scenario is again having a discussion between all the commission of what um people's

[1:13:17] Voice 14: thoughts are in paper form without again you're you're kind of doing what you're indirectly we

[1:13:24] Voice 14: can't do directly that's

[1:13:26] Voice 17: the intent yes yes

[1:13:28] Voice 14: and that and that intended if it's the intent is to

[1:13:31] Voice 14: try and get around the legal requirements that's a problem right because again

[1:13:36] Voice 14: the public has the

[1:13:38] Voice 14: right what's the problem with bringing those forward in a meeting and having a discussion

[1:13:42] Voice 14: in open forum regarding them

[1:13:45] Voice 9: just just to clarify alicia he i think he's he's suggesting that this

[1:13:50] Voice 9: dropbox idea or medium media be available to the public so the public could be informed that it

[1:13:56] Voice 9: exists the public could could observe all of the same information and all be available to the public

[1:14:00] Voice 9: and the purpose of it is it allows us to to share ideas with to continue the process because it

[1:14:07] Voice 9: are this the if all of our members get you know we don't have time for each of us takes 10 minutes

[1:14:11] Voice 9: to speak you know we don't have time to to even share our perspectives and 48 hours is going to

[1:14:17] Voice 9: go by um so in order to to further in order to to to arrive at a at a goal it would be useful to

[1:14:26] Voice 9: to be able to share information

[1:14:26] Voice 9: outside of the two hours of verbal time.

[1:14:29] Voice 9: And Stanley's just offering a potential way to do that.

[1:14:35] Voice 8: My system, we would not discuss them,

[1:14:39] Voice 8: but I know Mehrar has ideas.

[1:14:42] Voice 8: I didn't frankly know many of the other members

[1:14:45] Voice 8: of the committee, but I'm sure that they also have ideas,

[1:14:48] Voice 8: but we have a format that would not be enough.

[1:14:51] Voice 8: I don't want to discuss them.

[1:14:53] Voice 8: I'm not going to debate them necessarily

[1:14:55] Voice 8: with what James O'Meara proposes,

[1:14:58] Voice 8: but in terms of making us aware

[1:15:00] Voice 8: of the range of thinking

[1:15:05] Voice 8: that our people bring into the room with them.

[1:15:08] Voice 8: And literally you say,

[1:15:09] Voice 8: now we're going to have to bring it into the room

[1:15:12] Voice 8: in wonderful 19th century thinking.

[1:15:15] Voice 8: But is that going to break it?

[1:15:20] Voice 8: I'm not having a big discussion

[1:15:21] Voice 8: on what James might propose.

[1:15:23] Voice 8: I say, yeah, that's a good idea,

[1:15:25] Voice 8: but I suggest you do this that the next thing I just want to set up an idea bank Louise

[1:15:32] Voice 14: I see you

[1:15:33] Voice 14: had your hand up and you might have some comments about the process that perhaps already exists

[1:15:37] Voice 14: regarding this but I mean the public at any point in time can provide comments so if you're seeking

[1:15:42] Voice 14: comments from the public about hey what are your thoughts regarding housing initiatives

[1:15:48] Voice 14: on Salt Spring Island and you're gathering those comments and then putting them on an agenda and

[1:15:55] Voice 14: having a discussion about them there there would be a process that you could do in that context

[1:16:00] Voice 14: right and that happens all the time in local governments seeking input and comments from the

[1:16:05] Voice 14: public i don't know do you have a some set process procedure already regarding that uh luisa i saw

[1:16:11] Voice 14: you had your hand up yeah

[1:16:13] Voice 3: there's a couple of things my help of the discussion uh wrap up one

[1:16:17] Voice 3: is um what's uh stanley suggesting it's really part of our public engagement program we have

[1:16:24] Voice 3: have not even have time to get into that. The survey is one way to solicit information and

[1:16:30] Voice 3: seek input from the public. So we're working on that. And the second thing is, Elisa, I think

[1:16:37] Voice 3: you said it was okay because we share with another task force having the same issue, wanting to meet

[1:16:43] Voice 3: more often. Our suggestion is that kind of take on what's already been brought up is we will need

[1:16:51] Voice 3: to explore how to do that, and we'll get back to you as a group, is to have the option of having

[1:16:58] Voice 3: an additional meeting instead of monthly, provide an opportunity for you as a group to meet,

[1:17:05] Voice 3: but without staff resource. We will advertise the meeting so that the public is known that

[1:17:11] Voice 3: you have this meeting, but you will definitely probably use the same venue that would work,

[1:17:17] Voice 3: and also you'll have a minute ticker the reason we need to explore that is we need to look at

[1:17:24] Voice 3: technology we need to look at if our minute ticker is available right now there are increasing

[1:17:29] Voice 3: numbers of meetings that we need her help on so that is an issue but we're going to just look at

[1:17:35] Voice 3: the logistics we'll provide you additional forum for you to brainstorm and what you could do is

[1:17:42] Voice 3: I know trustees earlier make a comment about concern about staff being cut short in this discussion and not hearing it and not being able to provide information.

[1:17:53] Voice 3: So if you can do a summary each time and, you know, in addition to the minutes that we help staff to look at what we are supposed to do to take the information.

[1:18:06] Voice 8: OK, well, that was a great step forward with faith.

[1:18:09] Voice 8: all things are possible and but I mean I think that that would be a very positive outcome of

[1:18:16] Voice 8: today's discussion if we could in fact in addition to our regular meeting have a a group meeting

[1:18:23] Voice 8: for the exchange of ideas rather than the establishment of policy or even policy

[1:18:29] Voice 8: recommendation so

[1:18:31] Voice 3: I haven't finished I just want to make a comment that right now because of the

[1:18:36] Voice 3: logistics that we need to I know we're trying to give you the answer as much as as soon as

[1:18:43] Voice 3: maybe your next meeting in-person meeting but no guarantee because we do have to talk with

[1:18:50] Voice 3: other people as well to look at the venue reserved for the purpose so I would say

[1:18:59] Voice 3: you might know more about it in August and at least are you okay with this approach well

[1:19:07] Voice 14: Well, the approach is still, there's still open meetings to the public.

[1:19:12] Voice 14: They're no different, right?

[1:19:14] Voice 14: You still have to have the appointed secretary there taking minutes.

[1:19:18] Voice 14: You still have to give notice to the public.

[1:19:19] Voice 14: The public's still entitled to attend.

[1:19:21] Voice 14: So they're all the same.

[1:19:23] Voice 14: As far as if you're saying that, I think your bylaw was even just looking here.

[1:19:28] Voice 14: if a local trustee doesn't attend the meeting there's a requirement that the the local trustee

[1:19:37] Voice 14: could request a verbal report from the chairperson about the meeting so there's those bits about it

[1:19:42] Voice 14: I think that can maybe allow where perhaps for trustees or someone else who can't make it you

[1:19:49] Voice 14: could have more meetings and just give a report but it's still an open meeting and you still need

[1:19:54] Voice 14: to have the appointed secretary there in public notice thank

[1:19:59] Voice 9: you um we are we have exceeded our

[1:20:04] Voice 9: time for for this section of the um agenda um is it appropriate to move on does anyone have any

[1:20:13] Voice 9: pressing final concerns i i i think it's good a good time to wrap this up on those that final

[1:20:19] Voice 9: point and look forward to to having another meeting a month at least um and uh thank you

[1:20:26] Voice 9: everyone for your comments and the discussion thank

[1:20:30] Voice 10: you Alyssa it was informative well good luck

[1:20:35] Voice 14: I look forward to hearing what your recommendations are

[1:20:41] Voice 9: excellent thank you so the the next point is the roundtable discussion

[1:20:49] Voice 9: we started talking about this earlier about the changing the meeting schedule to the the first

[1:20:55] Voice 9: thursday um of each month um louisa was there any more to add to that or was or did we complete that

[1:21:02] Voice 9: yeah

[1:21:03] Voice 3: i just want to uh repeat that uh we're going to give you an update at that um next meeting i

[1:21:10] Voice 3: believe i said office today uh to let you know about your alternate meeting when it will be

[1:21:18] Voice 3: uh it may not be on a thursday because we're we have a lot of things going on other um commissions

[1:21:24] Voice 3: and other meetings.

[1:21:26] Voice 3: But we will let you know when we can set up another meeting for you.

[1:21:31] Voice 3: I think it could be a great meeting.

[1:21:33] Voice 3: The first one that's set up, you could introduce yourself

[1:21:36] Voice 3: and get to know each other.

[1:21:39] Voice 3: But we'll keep you posted on that.

[1:21:41] Voice 9: So to be clear, you're going to look forward to,

[1:21:44] Voice 9: you're going to look at so that we can have

[1:21:46] Voice 9: an extra supplementary meeting per month.

[1:21:48] Voice 9: So we would meet biweekly.

[1:21:49] Voice 9: In between, it would be a little bit less formal,

[1:21:52] Voice 9: won't still be able to take care and

[1:21:54] Voice 9: opportunity for us to continue sharing ideas.

[1:21:56] Voice 3: Yeah, we're still part of the location

[1:21:58] Voice 3: and

[1:22:01] Voice 3: the date of the meeting

[1:22:03] Voice 3: so that the public, if they choose

[1:22:04] Voice 3: to attend, they can.

[1:22:06] Voice 9: Right, so I see your hands up.

[1:22:08] Voice 6: Is there anything stopping us from having

[1:22:10] Voice 6: a meeting between now and

[1:22:13] Voice 6: August 5th, all of us? I mean, we're

[1:22:14] Voice 6: all itching to get going and take care

[1:22:16] Voice 6: of and get things done.

[1:22:18] Voice 6: I don't see any reason if we have a secretary

[1:22:21] Voice 6: we can get one of the trustees or somebody to intend

[1:22:24] Voice 6: why we can't speed up the process.

[1:22:26] Voice 6: I have heard nothing today that tells me

[1:22:28] Voice 6: we can't speed up the process should we choose to.

[1:22:34] Voice 9: I like

[1:22:35] Voice 5: that idea, yeah.

[1:22:36] Voice 9: Louisa, can you speak to that?

[1:22:37] Voice 9: Is it possible to meet sooner than August 5th?

[1:22:41] Voice 3: Are you meeting to get to know each other?

[1:22:44] Voice 3: Are you meeting to talk about the project?

[1:22:47] Voice 5: Talk about our ideas about affordable housing,

[1:22:51] Voice 5: ideas that others may never have considered.

[1:22:54] Voice 3: We will need to advertise that

[1:22:56] Voice 3: and we need to post it and right now it's not that we don't want to accommodate you we'll just know

[1:23:02] Voice 3: our limited resource right now and also the legal noticing of requirement and i don't remember how

[1:23:08] Voice 3: many days in advance uh so we'll do it was it five uh i would love to rock to confirm that

[1:23:17] Voice 3: um and i believe it's five i think last time i look at but i just don't want to

[1:23:22] Voice 3: you are saying well uh so we will look at that and we will work with the chair um hopefully

[1:23:30] Voice 3: tomorrow i'm not sure when the deadline is but we'll try to respond is that okay if i just

[1:23:36] Voice 3: respond to ronan or i could send a group of the email once we figure it out whether it could or

[1:23:43] Voice 3: not but because of the five days noticing requirement just so you know it's going to

[1:23:48] Voice 3: to run very close to the August 5th date.

[1:23:52] Voice 9: Okay, that's fine.

[1:23:54] Voice 9: Bryce, is your hand still up or is it up again?

[1:23:56] Voice 6: Yeah, no, what's to stop us from hiring a note taker?

[1:24:01] Voice 6: It's done all of the time, that's acceptable.

[1:24:04] Voice 6: I still do not see any reason whatsoever

[1:24:07] Voice 6: why we can't move meetings.

[1:24:09] Voice 6: I mean, I understand how hard the staff work.

[1:24:11] Voice 6: They have my full sympathy.

[1:24:13] Voice 6: They do work very, very hard

[1:24:14] Voice 6: and they're pulled in 20 different directions.

[1:24:17] Voice 6: but when they were advertising for this committee we had a crisis the word crisis was used

[1:24:23] Voice 6: emergency was used um and we do and i don't think uh for the sake of a little effort there isn't any

[1:24:32] Voice 6: reason why we can't have a meeting between now and i think in that one meeting a lot of our

[1:24:37] Voice 6: frustration would go away because we would have a chance if that meeting was to be you know two

[1:24:42] Voice 6: hours long five hours long it doesn't matter to me to hear everybody out and then i think we get

[1:24:47] Voice 6: rid of all this angst that we're having and we can get much more focused and be much more productive

[1:24:52] Voice 6: for the august 5th meeting just my thoughts good comment

[1:24:57] Voice 9: um so i remember alicia did mentioned

[1:25:01] Voice 9: something about um once the ltc has appointed a secretary that that's has to be the secretary

[1:25:09] Voice 10: That, I

[1:25:10] Voice 10: would almost challenge that, and just from reading, I think that there is space

[1:25:17] Voice 10: because an appointed secretary, because we have the right to call a meeting, if one can't

[1:25:22] Voice 10: be appointed for that meeting, then you should have a right to appoint as chair, Ronan, a

[1:25:30] Voice 10: secretary that staff like Louisa would approve, like some, you know, someone that is a reputable

[1:25:38] Voice 10: minute taker i mean there's a lot you know so i i think that that's that is a gray zone and i mean

[1:25:43] Voice 10: she kind of just kind of shut me down there with it was like no that's not allowed but i think

[1:25:47] Voice 10: like i i am you know i don't know my brain works in mysterious ways and i can i can i can

[1:25:53] Voice 10: shuffle through things like this and it does yeah i i think it's something to question i could

[1:26:00] Voice 3: could answer uh i could try to answer that um my understanding is island trust has a contract

[1:26:06] Voice 3: and we have to go through a process because we're using public money it's not like we can just go

[1:26:13] Voice 3: out and use the money on anything and because we have a contract we're following a ticker right now

[1:26:18] Voice 3: and that's the one we're going to use so uh part of getting back to you like i said we need to look

[1:26:24] Voice 3: at the date venue and the staff resources and that's to work with uh sarah to see her uh

[1:26:30] Voice 3: availability okay

[1:26:33] Voice 9: well it sounds to me that it would be a positive move to to do that to try

[1:26:37] Voice 9: even if it is close to the august 5th meeting um even a few days before um to give us an opportunity

[1:26:45] Voice 9: to to share our points of view um and then in fact it would be productive if it was close

[1:26:50] Voice 9: to the night meeting because then we can follow up um and make the next meeting that much more

[1:26:53] Voice 9: productive yeah

[1:26:54] Voice 1: i agree okay

[1:26:57] Voice 9: does anyone have um any other comments on that particular item or

[1:27:01] Voice 9: should we move on to um the next uh part of the agenda okay the next so so um yvonne

[1:27:12] Voice 7: had her hand

[1:27:12] Voice 7: oh i'm sorry

[1:27:13] Voice 1: yes i did i just wanted to say

[1:27:15] Voice 1: ronan that i totally agree with you i want to get i'm

[1:27:18] Voice 1: looking at all of our faces and i can see despondency um among us and i have to be truthful

[1:27:24] Voice 1: about that i don't want this to happen i feel we're all here for the good of the island make

[1:27:29] Voice 1: a difference and i i don't think we should be blunted in that i think if we can have meetings

[1:27:34] Voice 1: and go forward and be productive that's what we should be doing what does anybody else feel

[1:27:42] Voice 1: well

[1:27:42] Voice 5: i'm just not too clear who's i'm just not too clear who's opposing us for wanting to

[1:27:48] Voice 5: articulate housing ideas i'm not too sure who the foe is behind us we can't disseminate ideas

[1:27:56] Voice 5: i don't know who would be against that

[1:27:58] Voice 9: it's it's it's sound it's it's the it's the legal situation

[1:28:04] Voice 9: of the public process being an appointed body of of the local trust committee that that creates

[1:28:11] Voice 9: the legal the legal restraints um if we were a group that wasn't part of the the local trust

[1:28:17] Voice 9: committee then there wouldn't be those constraints danielle hi

[1:28:24] Voice 12: i just wanted to say um i just wanted

[1:28:26] Voice 12: to we've only got half an hour left and i'd really love to move forward particularly with uh

[1:28:30] Voice 12: ideas having a motion about um taking immediate action from your letter a couple meetings ago

[1:28:36] Voice 12: i'm just worried that we're kind of trying to tread over ground we've been over a couple times

[1:28:41] Voice 12: now already. Sure.

[1:28:44] Voice 9: Thank you. That's a good call to call to order. So yeah, so we have an agenda

[1:28:54] Voice 9: recommendations to see for immediate implementation, like I put forward in a letter to the

[1:29:00] Voice 9: group that was part of the public package last meeting. And also last meeting, it was recommended

[1:29:08] Voice 9: that the group submit ideas to Louisa who would consolidate that. What

[1:29:15] Voice 9: wound up happening is Louisa created a matrix document that was shared with

[1:29:21] Voice 9: everyone for an opportunity to start filling it in. Not very many people did

[1:29:25] Voice 9: but we have that as part of the agenda package and in that table there was an

[1:29:33] Voice 9: opportunity to identify timing and I suggested that because we couldn't have

[1:29:42] Voice 9: a special category to talk about things that could be immediately recommend to

[1:29:46] Voice 9: the local trust committee that if we put in the timing that it would that it

[1:29:50] Voice 9: could be immediate so the background for this

[1:29:54] Voice 3: would you like me to share the

[1:29:56] Voice 3: screen

[1:29:56] Voice 9: sure

[1:30:01] Voice 9: Thank you, Louisa. When we're in screen sharing mode, it'll be even that much harder. I don't think I'll be able to see anybody. So, or I won't be able to see everybody at once.

[1:30:14] Voice 9: So, so you can see the, the matrix there.

[1:30:18] Voice 9: So the, the, the background of this suggestion is that, you know, this working group does have the, the, the

[1:30:28] Voice 9: the responsibility to make recommendations to the trust committee and there are some things that

[1:30:35] Voice 9: maybe with this with the expertise of this group that we can identify even you know just to address

[1:30:40] Voice 9: the immediacy of the the crisis right now things that are that are attainable within you know a few

[1:30:47] Voice 9: months or even within one trust meeting so so I propose some things that are in that context

[1:30:53] Voice 9: There are other things that this group has talked about that maybe people don't know,

[1:30:59] Voice 9: but they aren't as easy to achieve immediately.

[1:31:05] Voice 9: And so distinguishing those things is important.

[1:31:10] Voice 9: And I just want to point out that I recognize that there has been a lot of comments about

[1:31:16] Voice 9: wanting to talk about our vision and get to know each other and understand what the desired

[1:31:23] Voice 9: outcome is before taking action but at the same time you know I would dare to

[1:31:31] Voice 9: say that all of us want there to be something actions taken that will help

[1:31:36] Voice 9: the community immediately so it's within that context that that I'm proposing

[1:31:40] Voice 9: that we consider this now and maybe even in this meeting we can move to

[1:31:47] Voice 9: recommend some of these or all of these points that have been suggested so far

[1:31:54] Voice 9: I'm not really quite sure how to proceed with doing that this is new to me in this kind of

[1:31:59] Voice 9: format does anyone have any comments or questions you have to speak up because I can't see everyone

[1:32:07] Voice 9: hey

[1:32:13] Voice 10: Ronan I am to the group I think that is a really good idea to move forward on some

[1:32:19] Voice 10: short-term solutions and I guess we'll perhaps need Louisa's support as far as moving to make

[1:32:25] Voice 10: make those recommendations and so I move to make short-term recommendations okay

[1:32:33] Voice 9: is there a second is there anyone who would like to second yeah I'll second

[1:32:40] Voice 12: that Thank

[1:32:41] Voice 9: You Daniel okay so yeah

[1:32:47] Voice 17: you

[1:32:48] Voice 9: know how should go about it I mean would

[1:32:50] Voice 9: it would it be you know simple enough to to make the recommendations that have

[1:32:54] Voice 9: been identified on the table as immediate or should we go through it as

[1:32:57] Voice 9: a group um point by point yes please yeah i

[1:33:03] Voice 7: think that um it was the idea was to get

[1:33:12] Voice 7: alignment on the our group's priorities and it morphed into something very very specific

[1:33:22] Voice 7: in the weeds that is not backed up with a medium or long-term vision we don't have the

[1:33:30] Voice 7: the backup, we may make recommendations that are not in the public, that won't stand up under

[1:33:43] Voice 7: public scrutiny. So we haven't had sufficient conversation. And I think that we've got

[1:33:51] Voice 7: 12 people on the group, and three people have responded to that matrix. It's not representative.

[1:34:00] Voice 7: and I would caution against going forward.

[1:34:11] Voice 9: Okay, so, oh, go ahead, Louisa.

[1:34:14] Voice 3: Chair, I'd like to, thank you.

[1:34:17] Voice 3: I'd like to point out two things.

[1:34:18] Voice 3: One is when the ranking, the priority is from an individual,

[1:34:25] Voice 3: so it hasn't been by the group.

[1:34:27] Voice 3: I think the intent is for the group to determine which one,

[1:34:31] Voice 3: which items would be a priority.

[1:34:33] Voice 3: I also want to let the board know that as staff, we have not done any of the analysis.

[1:34:39] Voice 3: So we are not commenting on whether it's doable or not or within the purview of local planning services.

[1:34:49] Voice 3: Some of the ideas may not.

[1:34:51] Voice 3: So just want you to know that we have not done our analysis on any of the items.

[1:34:56] Voice 3: We put it on the table as is that it was submitted.

[1:35:01] Voice 3: No editing has been done.

[1:35:02] Voice 3: So I just want you all to keep that in mind.

[1:35:06] Voice 9: I've got a comment, but first, Mike, I see your hand is up.

[1:35:10] Voice 9: And also, Jordi, I see your hand is up.

[1:35:14] Voice 4: Yeah, just in response to what Maror said, and I also support,

[1:35:20] Voice 4: is it thinkable to give ourselves the challenge of taking between now and August 5th

[1:35:26] Voice 4: to get all of us, ideally, but let's say the vast majority of us,

[1:35:32] Voice 4: to contribute to that matrix sheet so that we have concrete, short-term, medium-term actions

[1:35:38] Voice 4: that we can really start moving ahead on as of next meeting.

[1:35:44] Voice 9: I think that's a good comment.

[1:35:47] Voice 9: Jessica, I see your hand is up. Oh, I'm sorry, there's also Jordi, but...

[1:35:51] Voice 9: Thank you.

[1:35:51] Voice 11: You can let them go first. I think their hand up was before me.

[1:35:54] Voice 4: Okay. Yeah. Sorry, Ronan, I was just asking, could we get a quick sort of tour of the room,

[1:36:02] Voice 4: like do people think that's a good idea is that something we want to try and do

[1:36:06] Voice 4: um because if it is then i will make sure i will do it

[1:36:09] Voice 9: um yes thanks thanks michael i was thinking

[1:36:13] Voice 9: to um hear a couple other comments and then that and then and then ask um for feedback on that

[1:36:19] Voice 9: as well is that okay or do you want to hear people's comment response to that right away

[1:36:24] Voice 4: no no after is great thank you very much ronan um

[1:36:28] Voice 9: so just trying to follow this jordy um

[1:36:32] Voice 9: and then jessica and then mirror so i might have inadvertently put my hand up but i didn't hand

[1:36:37] Voice 9: you so apologies for that okay so then we have um jessica then mirror and then nishma hi yeah

[1:36:44] Voice 11: i really i really understand the sort of urge to get the ball rolling um especially amongst

[1:36:50] Voice 11: a crisis and i can really relate to a lot of the concerns that have come up with folks um

[1:36:56] Voice 11: unfortunately i haven't had an opportunity to really get to know everyone and hear their

[1:37:01] Voice 11: points of view either um so i i we have 20 minutes left in our um you know in our time together and

[1:37:08] Voice 11: i'm i'm wondering if it's too rushed to really take the time to go through everything and that

[1:37:14] Voice 11: perhaps um we need more time um to to get to know each other and to also hear what other people um

[1:37:23] Voice 11: have to say um in the group because there are only three or four people that have

[1:37:27] Voice 11: um uh put proposals forward okay

[1:37:32] Voice 9: um thank you just i see the measurements hands up but also

[1:37:36] Voice 9: wanted to have an opportunity to reply to mira's point and then also i can jessica just just put

[1:37:41] Voice 9: this out so um so some of some of the um um you you like this i've been putting this forward in

[1:37:51] Voice 9: the public um um you know as a letter in the public agenda package so there has been an

[1:37:56] Voice 9: opportunity for everyone to consider some of these ideas already for a couple months

[1:38:00] Voice 9: um and you know and i fully understand that that we need to um have you know a line around vision

[1:38:09] Voice 9: and line around strategy and it's important to give everyone that voice and that time to

[1:38:13] Voice 9: contribute to this so um i think that um and so i just want to point out how this is um you know so

[1:38:21] Voice 9: I think it's appropriate to take the time, that's what I'm hearing.

[1:38:26] Voice 9: This document, for better or for worse, it might not be ideal but it is providing a framework

[1:38:32] Voice 9: for us to be able to get our ideas on paper and then to be able to refine them and complete

[1:38:43] Voice 9: them.

[1:38:43] Voice 9: I just want to point out there's you know there's you know we putting our ideas on the paper into

[1:38:49] Voice 9: the document doesn't preclude us discussing about our you know ideas for objectives and long-term

[1:38:56] Voice 9: visions and values in fact those that can also be put into this document I had asked for there

[1:39:04] Voice 9: to be a category right now there's a limited amount of categories I'd ask there to be a

[1:39:09] Voice 9: category about objectives and values but those could be placed in into the ocp category or in

[1:39:18] Voice 9: the others category um as far as timing goes the timing i just want to point out that timing

[1:39:24] Voice 9: people have different perspectives about what timing means right and so so for me and part of

[1:39:29] Voice 9: this coming from we have different experiences with the public with the with what's attainable

[1:39:33] Voice 9: by the um the the local trust community and the powers that the trust actually has

[1:39:38] Voice 9: has. I've been working in this in quite some detail with colleagues that are planners.

[1:39:44] Voice 9: So I've got a certain understanding about what is attainable and I've also been engaging

[1:39:50] Voice 9: with the community as a housing advocate for four years. So the things I've been putting

[1:39:55] Voice 9: forward have been informed by that, but I recognize that not everyone has had the same

[1:40:00] Voice 9: opportunity to understand those points. And I would like to have the opportunity to share

[1:40:04] Voice 9: we can discuss with you on all of these points about that so that you all understand what they

[1:40:09] Voice 9: what they mean um um so when i think it's a good idea that that mike can suggest it to you

[1:40:18] Voice 9: to have everyone please everyone take this document and submit it you don't have to

[1:40:22] Voice 9: it doesn't have to be 20 points doesn't have 10 points if you're one point it could be a matter

[1:40:26] Voice 9: of putting your name beside another point um i don't know if that's like like like somehow like

[1:40:30] Voice 9: we need to you know i'm not sure how to go about how do we rank these things um and that's where

[1:40:35] Voice 9: the idea of having a subcommittee would be really great just a group of us who are really passionate

[1:40:39] Voice 9: about this to simply consolidate the document a little bit um that's just an idea so i just wanted

[1:40:45] Voice 9: to point out that in the timing category i i chose to put the words immediate for things that i know

[1:40:50] Voice 9: that are attainable within a few months by the ltc because they're they're either they're they're a

[1:40:55] Voice 9: simple change to an existing bylaw or they're they're simply a standing resolution that the

[1:41:01] Voice 9: the trust community could make um and so if you look closely into those things you'll see you'll

[1:41:05] Voice 9: see that i think um and uh so so like to ask you when you're submitting your ideas to think about

[1:41:12] Voice 9: or to try to understand what is attainable immediately and if you don't know um maybe

[1:41:18] Voice 9: maybe put it to more of a short, medium, or long-term timing, you know, and then just

[1:41:24] Voice 9: so we understand together, short, in the context of this project, short is something, you know,

[1:41:30] Voice 9: that's attainable, you know, something that might be attainable within the next, you know,

[1:41:33] Voice 9: couple of years, medium is next, you know, five, 10 years, and long-term is, you know,

[1:41:38] Voice 9: long, where we're going in the long-term of the community, but that's juxtaposed also

[1:41:43] Voice 9: within, because when I was discussing with Louisa, there's also some understanding within

[1:41:47] Voice 9: the timing within the project so short meaning within the next few months the project medium

[1:41:51] Voice 9: within the next year and two years or long within the next two years of the project so there's a

[1:41:55] Voice 9: little bit of a different hierarchies about what the timing means um and so you can consider both

[1:42:01] Voice 9: right how how we address it within the context of discussion of this project and also how it affects

[1:42:07] Voice 9: the community within the context of the timing of now and the next seven generations thank you sorry

[1:42:14] Voice 9: I took a bit of time but I just felt um so uh Neshma you had your hand up I think next

[1:42:21] Voice 9: oh you're on mute Neshma I think I was next

[1:42:25] Voice 10: sorry about that uh I'm

[1:42:27] Voice 9: sorry mayor

[1:42:28] Voice 10: if you would like to

[1:42:29] Voice 10: go that's absolutely fine that's perfectly great I'm

[1:42:33] Voice 9: sorry it's difficult to keep track of okay

[1:42:35] Voice 7: yeah fair enough um so I think that the recommendations that come from your experience

[1:42:44] Voice 7: Ronan are in a different league than anybody else's recommendations your

[1:42:49] Voice 7: familiarity with the code or not the code not the the ounce trusts policies

[1:42:55] Voice 7: and familiarity with what's happened in the past so I think too it's important

[1:43:07] Voice 7: to recognize that your recommendations are are different than everybody else's

[1:43:14] Voice 7: will be because for the rest we're all i think pretty naive about the long history of housing

[1:43:25] Voice 7: proposals and the nuances of the regulations but my other point that i want to make up

[1:43:33] Voice 7: want to bring up it has to do with how we go about things and you know it's not like there's

[1:43:41] Voice 7: you choose between short-term or medium-term or long-term good you know we're in this

[1:43:51] Voice 7: environmental climate crisis because we employ short-term thinking you know that's at the root

[1:43:58] Voice 7: of why we're in the mess we're in and so it's not like long-term thinking is

[1:44:08] Voice 7: something against short-term thinking but if you have a long-range plan that makes sense that

[1:44:15] Voice 7: provides a gift to future generations where you're creating you know how you want salt spring island

[1:44:21] Voice 7: to be and in particular the housing on salt spring island how you want it to be 200 years from now

[1:44:25] Voice 7: and then you go medium term does it fit within long term yes so you you make sure that the medium

[1:44:31] Voice 7: fits inside and gets you going in the right direction and then the short term fits inside

[1:44:40] Voice 7: the medium and so all your different layers are going in the same direction if you start with

[1:44:46] Voice 7: short term you may be going in this direction where the long term is going in this direction

[1:44:51] Voice 7: we need to line everything up starting from the long term and then work work to the short term

[1:44:58] Voice 7: I think it's, and I get the crisis, the emergency, and I'm just really cautious of repeating the mechanisms that have got us into this because we're in emergency.

[1:45:17] Voice 9: I think that's a really, really great comment.

[1:45:20] Voice 9: And I think you've allocated, you've made that, you put that out there really well.

[1:45:25] Voice 9: And that sort of speaks to, in a way, what we've been trying to articulate as far as

[1:45:28] Voice 9: defining, you know, desired outcomes and objectives, you know, within that.

[1:45:33] Voice 9: And I think that's, I've been trying to bring that up as well.

[1:45:35] Voice 9: So it's really important.

[1:45:37] Voice 9: I see Nejma and Danielle.

[1:45:40] Voice 10: Yeah, so, okay, so Mayor, that's exactly, it's so, it's so true that we do need to be

[1:45:45] Voice 10: kind of like you know shooting out and then scaling back and taking the steps sequentially

[1:45:51] Voice 10: so there's long term medium term short term in term so and that is what we can do while we are

[1:45:57] Voice 10: working towards the short term goals that are going to get us to the long long term eventually

[1:46:02] Voice 10: right and i think that for a lot of what ronan is proposing as short term are actually in term

[1:46:08] Voice 10: to tackle some issues in the interim so that we can keep moving and i guess where it gets fuzzy

[1:46:14] Voice 10: is if we begin to take too much staff resources to do these things and it takes away from the

[1:46:20] Voice 10: long-term visioning so so that should be that should be considered and also with the matrix

[1:46:24] Voice 10: um i mean i know everything goes in like forms and columns and everything but it would be amazing if

[1:46:30] Voice 10: it was spherical because i think that there's something to say about um how yeah exactly that

[1:46:35] Voice 10: how the ranking of how that works so i didn't really see there's not really a lot of space for

[1:46:39] Voice 10: that so so yeah like maybe um if we could create like one more column um that uh that is kind of

[1:46:45] Voice 10: like you know you know you can put a little you know put a little asterisk in there if you are

[1:46:50] Voice 10: for or against so that we can kind of start to like gather kind of an idea of what is very

[1:46:56] Voice 10: important to everyone and thank you um to um to uh mykin and jessica and you know just everyone

[1:47:04] Voice 10: everyone for just you know kind of remembering that um to that that yeah because i haven't even

[1:47:09] Voice 10: put into that yet i have a lot of ideas that can go into that and um i want to be able to do that

[1:47:14] Voice 10: i also uh have uh witnessed ronan in his process of just of housing advocacy i understand the ocp

[1:47:22] Voice 10: and um are the policies that are guiding us to to a degree that i understand that what he's saying

[1:47:28] Voice 10: these interim solutions are actually very feasible and should get pushed through because

[1:47:34] Voice 10: it can help people like immediately to, you know, people will be housed immediately, like

[1:47:39] Voice 10: within, you know, even a couple months, like, we can make things happen. So people aren't

[1:47:43] Voice 10: feeling the fear of eviction, because they're in illegal suites or trailers, you know, things

[1:47:48] Voice 10: like that. So thank you.

[1:47:50] Voice 9: Thank you. Daniel?

[1:47:54] Voice 12: Yeah, thank you. I just wanted to first of all, concur completely with what Mira said

[1:47:59] Voice 12: said about Ronan, your suggestions being in a sort of a league above, because that's exactly

[1:48:04] Voice 12: how I feel about it. I think that the suggestions you made are excellent. Obviously, you've been at

[1:48:10] Voice 12: this for longer than most of us. So you really have a good idea. I also want to respond. I mean,

[1:48:17] Voice 12: I appreciate that, of course, we're in this trouble, and not just for housing, but for lots

[1:48:22] Voice 12: lots of things because of short term thinking.

[1:48:25] Voice 12: But I also think we're in some of these problems like climate change as well

[1:48:30] Voice 12: also because we know what some of the solutions are,

[1:48:33] Voice 12: but yet we actually never take the action to solve them.

[1:48:36] Voice 12: And so that's why I really want to support sort of,

[1:48:39] Voice 12: and when I was talking about the emotion earlier,

[1:48:42] Voice 12: especially those items that you had identified in that letter that you sent

[1:48:49] Voice 12: two months ago. I think it was the first meeting where you'd asked to have it included in the

[1:48:54] Voice 12: agenda. I think those are all things that we can recommend to the trust immediately, that they

[1:49:01] Voice 12: can take those actions and it could help. And obviously, all we're doing is recommending that

[1:49:07] Voice 12: the trust do that. So it's not like we have any sort of binding force or anything, but I think

[1:49:14] Voice 12: I think those are steps that we can immediately take.

[1:49:17] Voice 12: And as you say, we can continue and meet and discuss.

[1:49:20] Voice 12: And there's all kinds of other solutions that everyone can have lots of input in and bring to the table.

[1:49:27] Voice 12: But it would be nice, too, to push forwards with some of the solutions that – and not just this committee, but other committees have recommended already.

[1:49:37] Voice 9: Thank you, Daniel.

[1:49:39] Voice 9: I'm doing some glare on my screen, so I'm having an extra hard time seeing if anyone has their hand up.

[1:49:43] Voice 9: but um i just wanted to to maybe suggest um that you know um that maybe as as you all are adding

[1:49:55] Voice 9: your ideas and i think that if we can add the column you know ranking column um which could be

[1:50:00] Voice 9: you know put our initials as a way of of sort of voting or or liking and maybe it's a way to sort

[1:50:06] Voice 9: of help help sort of you know just rather than than having you know multiple everyone sort of

[1:50:12] Voice 9: repeat the same idea right just to sort of go yeah i like that idea right and maybe that you know um

[1:50:17] Voice 9: that could make it a little bit more streamlined because so this document doesn't become

[1:50:21] Voice 9: you know 50 pages long of repeated ideas um and then maybe you know just to give time because

[1:50:27] Voice 9: daniel i appreciate obviously it's what i've been trying to recommend is that there are some things

[1:50:31] Voice 9: that that you know that could help the community right now and i think they're they're within the

[1:50:36] Voice 9: context of of of a long-term vision of from what i'm aware of people talking about they don't

[1:50:41] Voice 9: certainly don't preclude um you know good ideas because they are very interim they're very

[1:50:46] Voice 9: very immediate um and that's kind of where the thinking about immediate was right even closer

[1:50:52] Voice 9: than short right and um uh you know as as we define the vision but i think maybe what we can

[1:50:59] Voice 9: do is especially if we're going to meet one more time before the august 5th meeting maybe we can

[1:51:03] Voice 9: maybe we can you know try to fill this in you know everyone put in their ideas um and then maybe the

[1:51:09] Voice 9: the next meeting hopefully that's before August 5th we can we can talk about this particularly

[1:51:14] Voice 9: with an idea of you know you talk about our vision and talk about how it aligns and then

[1:51:19] Voice 9: and sort of just have the opportunity to go around and see if these some of these immediate

[1:51:23] Voice 9: recommendations that are being proposed line up with our with our with what we get a sense of our

[1:51:28] Voice 9: longer-term vision so that we feel comfortable as a group making the recommendation then possibly

[1:51:34] Voice 9: at the August 5th meeting of them and maybe the next meeting we can sort of find those.

[1:51:42] Voice 7: Yeah, just to give an example, to bring it into the real world between long-term and

[1:51:50] Voice 7: short-term, there is a concept about looking at the world in terms of brown assets and green

[1:51:57] Voice 7: assets. A green asset is something that, as climate change progresses, it becomes more

[1:52:06] Voice 7: more valuable and a brown asset is something that becomes less valuable as climate change

[1:52:13] Voice 7: progresses and you know a classic example of a brown asset brown asset is the tmx pipeline

[1:52:20] Voice 7: and you know many of our houses are brown assets and you know long-term vision we just want to

[1:52:27] Voice 7: create green assets you know housing that appreciates as time goes by becomes more

[1:52:35] Voice 7: more valuable as the ravages of climate change affect our housing.

[1:52:40] Voice 7: That's a long-term vision, and I think that kind of thinking can influence interim solutions

[1:52:51] Voice 7: that are emergencies, but the risk is that we create brown assets in our emergency thinking.

[1:53:01] Voice 9: Yeah, I'm hoping that this concept is something that we can use as kind of a framework or

[1:53:07] Voice 9: a gauge to how we're considering things because it's a big part of it. How do things wind

[1:53:13] Voice 9: up in the future? If we rush to get something done now that ultimately hamstrings the future,

[1:53:20] Voice 9: part of where we're at now in the world is because of that. But there's more than one

[1:53:25] Voice 9: value set another one of the value sets for me is you know our ability for our

[1:53:32] Voice 9: community to survive and the hospital was closed over the weekend because they

[1:53:37] Voice 9: didn't have enough staff and there's there's hundreds of jobs offered with

[1:53:42] Voice 9: you know businesses are suffering this job help wanted ads all over the

[1:53:45] Voice 9: community people are living in vans so to work you know so to me it's it's you

[1:53:52] Voice 9: know the community is falling apart so you know we're we're at a crisis so you know thinking about

[1:53:57] Voice 9: the you know um for me the when i talk about immediate and short-term things i'm thinking

[1:54:02] Voice 9: about how do we how do we save our community um you know how do we make use of existing buildings

[1:54:08] Voice 9: so that people can actually have an apartment to live in whatever it's made of um rather than

[1:54:12] Voice 9: having to live in a van or having to commute from a shitty apartment over excuse me an inadequate

[1:54:17] Voice 9: department in on the mainland so so there's different value sets in part

[1:54:24] Voice 9: for me one of the value sets is our community we want a healthy want a

[1:54:26] Voice 9: sustainable and healthy community we need to keep that community here now

[1:54:30] Voice 9: with with whatever shelter we can get over their heads and and I think where

[1:54:36] Voice 9: that where it fits in is that we want to avoid so it's making use of existing

[1:54:39] Voice 9: buildings what's here right now and we wanted to avoid so I just lost my

[1:54:48] Voice 9: thought I was distracted by what's happening. They're conflicting values.

[1:54:52] Voice 9: Yes and no, not necessarily. That was the point. If we want to avoid investing large amounts of

[1:55:01] Voice 9: public money into things that are unsustainable because they're immediate, that's where I feel

[1:55:09] Voice 9: like there's a difference. If you look at the details of things I'm proposing, you'll see that

[1:55:13] Voice 9: none of them have to do with investing millions of dollars of public money into

[1:55:19] Voice 9: substandard shot of the bill housing it's all about empowering what's

[1:55:23] Voice 9: happening right now which is people housing people in in illegal suites

[1:55:27] Voice 9: illegal cabins existing buildings allowing people to put someone a suite

[1:55:32] Voice 9: in their barn to retrofit their barn so there could be a suite it's making use

[1:55:37] Voice 9: of what's here right now because the cost of building is huge and you know

[1:55:41] Voice 9: and and and and one of the suggestions is is to simply refrain from forcing so

[1:55:46] Voice 9: So if someone has two people living in an RV on their property right now,

[1:55:50] Voice 9: someone can complain and that person will get enforced upon.

[1:55:52] Voice 9: And, you know, this is people trying to house other people, right?

[1:55:57] Voice 9: So I don't want to take any more time, but that's part of it.

[1:56:00] Voice 9: There's Bryce and Mike.

[1:56:02] Voice 3: I'm sorry to interrupt.

[1:56:04] Voice 3: You have about three minutes left and I know two people or three people raised their hands.

[1:56:08] Voice 3: Yes.

[1:56:09] Voice 3: Today is actually not a very good day for other staff because there's another commission meeting.

[1:56:13] Voice 3: it

[1:56:14] Voice 9: um can we just give bryson mike and just quickly a chance to make a quick comment

[1:56:19] Voice 9: yeah

[1:56:19] Voice 3: just want to let you know sure

[1:56:22] Voice 9: thank you thank

[1:56:25] Voice 6: you uh ronan i'm on yep yep uh well i'd

[1:56:30] Voice 6: make the suggestion uh to make this day a profitable day that we pick a date between

[1:56:35] Voice 6: the fifth and now and we have another meeting and i'd like to thank the staff for this matrix

[1:56:40] Voice 6: I apologize, I didn't get the time to fill it in,

[1:56:43] Voice 6: but I certainly will when we pick the next date

[1:56:46] Voice 6: before the 5th, I agree with what you're saying, Ronan.

[1:56:49] Voice 6: And we all come prepared in that meeting

[1:56:52] Voice 6: to discuss the matrix, which then kicks us off

[1:56:56] Voice 6: to producing and getting the things done

[1:56:59] Voice 6: we want to get done.

[1:57:01] Voice 6: I'm proposing

[1:57:01] Voice 6: that we pick a date right now, all of us,

[1:57:04] Voice 6: and we make sure we have a meeting before the 5th.

[1:57:06] Voice 6: um

[1:57:07] Voice 9: okay is it okay if we hear mykin's comment and steph and stefan's comment then we then we pick a

[1:57:13] Voice 9: date um mykin thank

[1:57:16] Voice 4: you everybody and i'll be brief um so yeah i just want to encourage everyone

[1:57:21] Voice 4: here not that anyone needs encouragement but um from what i heard at the last meeting we've got a

[1:57:28] Voice 4: really uh sharp passionate caring experienced team here and we haven't had a lot of chance to hear

[1:57:35] Voice 4: from each other i just want to encourage everyone in filling out this matrix in the next couple of

[1:57:40] Voice 4: weeks um to enjoy you know the full powers of your experience and your your ideas so for example

[1:57:48] Voice 4: ronan listening to you speak this you know i'm thinking okay in addition to things like what

[1:57:53] Voice 4: louise brought forth as this tiny house village which is um very very doable and um would be a

[1:58:01] Voice 4: tremendous gain, I think the consensus was for the community. Are there even, are there other

[1:58:08] Voice 4: very immediate feel-good victories that we can have that will set us apart from the last 20 years

[1:58:14] Voice 4: of stagnation and good intentions? For example, can we have as an idea for this group to find

[1:58:22] Voice 4: 20 homeowners on Salt Spring who have living quality suites that are unoccupied that would

[1:58:31] Voice 4: would be willing to rent them year-round to full-time residents?

[1:58:34] Voice 4: Or can we think of having a core that assists people in fixing up

[1:58:41] Voice 4: or in recommending people who can fix up in an achievable way

[1:58:46] Voice 4: available housing stock so that we get more houses on the market

[1:58:49] Voice 4: even within the two years that we're working together?

[1:58:52] Voice 4: Just let's get creative, let's have some fun,

[1:58:54] Voice 4: and let's get some results.

[1:58:55] Voice 4: Thank you.

[1:58:57] Voice 9: Thank you.

[1:58:58] Voice 9: Okay, Stefan, you're on mute.

[1:59:07] Voice 2: on off. Hi, everybody. I'm Stephan, by the way. I'm the regional planning manager in the

[1:59:11] Voice 2: Islands Trust Office. I know most of you, or if I don't, well, anyways, hi. I just want to jump in

[1:59:18] Voice 2: before you conclude the meeting. And I want to commend you for the work you're doing. I think

[1:59:23] Voice 2: that table you've made is a great starting place. And I understand that your central task, and I

[1:59:29] Voice 2: have a bastardly way of simplifying things, so forgive me, is your central task is to create

[1:59:34] Voice 2: an action plan, a housing action plan. And that's what you have before you is that. It's the

[1:59:42] Voice 2: beginning. It's the bones of it. And now you have to flesh it out. And I really encourage you to do

[1:59:47] Voice 2: that. And don't forget to include goals, objectives, tasks, responsibilities, timelines, and

[1:59:52] Voice 2: something that might even help us a lot are performance measures, indicators, how we know

[1:59:58] Voice 2: we're choosing that task. I see a lot

[2:00:00] Voice 2: lot of things that you're telling the LTC to do and adopt. And I'll give you my favorite one right

[2:00:05] Voice 2: now is the housing needs assessment identifies the need for 300 units today, and 300 more units

[2:00:16] Voice 2: in the near future within the next five years. So I summarize that really crude form as saying we

[2:00:21] Voice 2: need 600 units, we need 600 units of diverse, attainable housing for the population that

[2:00:28] Voice 2: already exists here or is anticipated to come in the very near future oh sorry i'm seeing hands

[2:00:35] Voice 2: waving but it's not to me the so the um so just a reminder that you have the bones but there's a

[2:00:42] Voice 2: lot of flesh that has to go on there in terms of so so don't lose sight of that so if you're making

[2:00:47] Voice 2: action plans to be immediate that there's more to it perhaps than that but you guys have started

[2:00:52] Voice 2: off in an amazing project and what you have there is a great start so i just want to share that

[2:00:57] Voice 2: thought with you just a reminder that how I see and as I work with staff and the elected officials

[2:01:02] Voice 2: to sort of be behind the scenes steering your ship or help you steer your ship that I'll be

[2:01:08] Voice 2: looking for that those clear actions that we can take the community now one other thing is

[2:01:13] Voice 2: I noticed that staff myself included haven't been giving you updates on what is going on in the

[2:01:19] Voice 2: community and if you don't mind Mr Chair I wouldn't mind or and Louisa going a couple minutes over

[2:01:24] Voice 2: just to tell you a couple of things that are going on right now that you may or may not wish to know.

[2:01:29] Voice 2: So I don't, I lost sight of the chair. There he is. Yeah.

[2:01:32] Voice 9: Thank you, Stefan. I don't mind. I'm pleased.

[2:01:35] Voice 12: Sorry guys. I'm afraid I have to run, but thank you so much. And best of luck. And I hope,

[2:01:41] Voice 12: Bryce, I will, I can make any time work if you can arrange me and I'd love to do it. I think it's a

[2:01:46] Voice 12: fantastic idea.

[2:01:48] Voice 2: Thank you. Sorry to crash your party at the end of it here, but so I will tell

[2:01:55] Voice 2: tell you that we have a rezoning application in process right now to permit 30 units at the end

[2:02:01] Voice 2: of Drake Road. It's commonly called Rainbow, no, Dragonfly Almonds. Thank you. Sorry, there's a lot

[2:02:09] Voice 2: out there. And there's also a bunch of others out there. There's 10 units down Rainbow Road. There's

[2:02:16] Voice 2: 20 something units over at across the street from us. Oh my gosh. I didn't plan to say all this

[2:02:23] Voice 2: of stuff so i don't have my notes but there's a lot of people in process and you may see what's

[2:02:27] Voice 2: coming down the pipeline with uh dragonfly comments is a unique way to apply building

[2:02:32] Voice 2: stratas to uh to lot development you may also see that um other activities are happening regarding

[2:02:40] Voice 2: that there's a another meeting at four o'clock today where the advisory planning the agriculture

[2:02:45] Voice 2: advisory planning commission is talking about the agricultural land commission's recent uh update

[2:02:50] Voice 2: that they're going to amend the regulations for allowing a secondary dwelling unit on properties

[2:02:55] Voice 2: within the agricultural land reserve effective at the end of the calendar year only if the local

[2:03:01] Voice 2: governments have bylaws that are in harmony with that so they'll allow it only if the local trust

[2:03:07] Voice 2: community does so there's things that are moving that I think you should be sort of kept abreast of

[2:03:12] Voice 2: and so I'm hoping to serve that purpose a little bit here and now and also to encourage you to

[2:03:17] Voice 2: take your bones and put some flesh on it. So those are my key messages. So thanks, Mr. Chair.

[2:03:23] Voice 9: Thank you. Okay, so we are at the end of the meeting time, but Bryce did raise the idea of

[2:03:30] Voice 9: choosing a date. Is that something that we can do? Yes. One

[2:03:36] Voice 3: thing I just want to remind you before

[2:03:39] Voice 3: you pick a date is that we do need five days notification, legal notification. And also on

[2:03:45] Voice 3: On the 27th, Sarah will not be available because we all have LTC meetings.

[2:03:51] Voice 9: Okay.

[2:03:53] Voice 9: So does anyone want to put forward a date, Najma?

[2:04:03] Voice 10: How about Thursday the 22nd to stick with our Thursday theme?

[2:04:09] Voice 10: Or do we want to, because the 27th wouldn't be available,

[2:04:12] Voice 10: and then further we're getting very, very close to the 5th.

[2:04:15] Voice 10: The 22nd of July work?

[2:04:18] Voice 3: We need five days.

[2:04:19] Voice 3: uh calendar business day legal notification oh

[2:04:24] Voice 10: that's next week okay so okay

[2:04:29] Voice 9: um what about what

[2:04:30] Voice 9: about the week the fifth is a thursday what about the the tuesday of that week august uh would that

[2:04:37] Voice 9: be august uh second the

[2:04:39] Voice 5: holiday isn't that british columbia day how about the third tuesday the third

[2:04:42] Voice 5: wouldn't be a holiday tuesday

[2:04:44] Voice 9: the third that works from that works for me yeah

[2:04:49] Voice 11: it works for me can

[2:04:51] Voice 9: Can anyone not make it on Tuesday, August 3rd?

[2:04:53] Voice 11: I can make it, but I'm also the clinical coordinator

[2:04:56] Voice 11: at the sexual health clinic here, and I start at 3.

[2:04:59] Voice 11: So it would have to be before 3 o'clock.

[2:05:01] Voice 9: Okay.

[2:05:03] Voice 9: Can we stick with the morning thing, make it Tuesday morning?

[2:05:08] Voice 9: Sure.

[2:05:09] Voice 9: And where?

[2:05:12] Voice 9: Well, as Louisa...

[2:05:18] Voice 3: Chair, can we confirm to see if Sarah is available?

[2:05:22] Voice 9: Yes.

[2:05:24] Voice 9: Thank

[2:05:25] Voice 15: you. Can you hear me?

[2:05:27] Voice 9: I'm sorry. I don't have a hard time seeing, so speak up, please.

[2:05:30] Voice 15: Okay. Sorry. Can you hear me, Chair?

[2:05:32] Voice 9: Oh, yes. Hello, Sarah. Yes.

[2:05:33] Voice 15: Thank you for checking. I am already scheduled for another LTC meeting on the morning of August 3rd, so I would not be available, although staff may be able to provide another minute taker in my stead.

[2:05:50] Voice 9: And Louisa, is there another minute taker that could be provided?

[2:05:54] Voice 3: I'm looking at WAP.

[2:05:58] Voice 13: We would have to consult our schedules.

[2:06:02] Voice 13: There's definitely, that week I am away, so it wouldn't be me.

[2:06:09] Voice 13: The location we would suggest, just because that was why I came off, came onto video,

[2:06:16] Voice 13: was that the Baptist Church, which is two doors over from the Islands Trust,

[2:06:20] Voice 13: is our typical meeting location for task force and planning commissions.

[2:06:27] Voice 13: so we do have a location and minute taking is something that we would need to consult

[2:06:35] Voice 13: to to be able to confirm that that would take uh a little bit of time could

[2:06:44] Voice 5: it be the afternoon

[2:06:45] Voice 5: of the third one

[2:06:46] Voice 9: o'clock jessica's not available uh oh perhaps the trust could

[2:06:52] Voice 7: yeah yeah

[2:06:57] Voice 9: that sounds like a good idea maybe within those couple of days after

[2:07:01] Voice 9: you know in the first week of august prior to the 5th if if the the trust could provide us with the

[2:07:06] Voice 9: with a couple of options um that is available that where we could have a minute taker and then we

[2:07:12] Voice 9: could um i i see it as being productive because then we'll meet we'll have a chance to flesh out

[2:07:17] Voice 9: we'll have had a chance to flesh out the the the the matrix a bit we'll have a chance to discuss

[2:07:24] Voice 9: more more in depth of these things and then then follow it up with another meeting right away

[2:07:28] Voice 9: Mayor Mrakas, Can

[2:07:30] Voice 4: I ask if two weeks from now, Thursday the 29th either morning or this regular 1pm time is a good idea as a backup for everybody here?

[2:07:40] Voice 4: Mayor Mrakas,

[2:07:41] Voice 9: I personally am planning on being away, but I could make it back if that was the only if that was I would prefer the week of the first week of August, but I can think it back to that.

[2:07:53] Voice 13: Mayor Mrakas, Chair, if I may speak for similar meetings like this, but we pulled together at the last moment.

[2:08:00] Voice 13: i've created a scheduling assistant that we then put out as a poll to all our members and as long

[2:08:12] Voice 13: as they respond quickly we can see what the best date is that has the least number of conflicts and

[2:08:17] Voice 13: so if i could have tonight and tomorrow morning to pull that together i believe i could have

[2:08:27] Voice 13: have something to all commissioners by noon to allow you to know what times are available.

[2:08:34] Voice 13: And then if you have informed us by the end of the day, on Monday, we can begin the process of

[2:08:42] Voice 13: working towards making that an official meeting.

[2:08:47] Voice 9: Thank you, Rob. That sounds amazing. Has everyone

[2:08:49] Voice 9: agreed with that? Or is anyone opposed to that idea? Yeah. Okay. That sounds good. Thank you,

[2:08:54] Voice 9: Rob, that's the way to go forward. Okay, well, thank you, everyone. This is, I think we're

[2:09:04] Voice 9: moving forward with this process. We're making good steps and I appreciate everyone's contribution

[2:09:12] Voice 9: and looking forward to seeing you in person at the next meeting and also looking forward

[2:09:17] Voice 9: to seeing your ideas on the matrix document. Have a great day. Oh, do we need to move to

[2:09:25] Voice 9: to adjourn the meeting?

[2:09:27] Voice 9: No, okay.

[2:09:28] Voice 9: Have a great day everyone, enjoy the sunshine

[2:09:30] Voice 9: and we'll see you soon.

[2:09:32] Voice 9: Thank you.

[2:09:33] Voice 9: Thank you.

Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee  
Special Meeting 
Minutes ADOPTED
  1 
July 15, 2021 
  
 
Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee 
Minutes of a Special Meeting 
 
 
Date: Thursday, July 15, 2021 
  
Location: Electronic Meeting 
200-1627 Fort Street, Victoria
 
  
Members Present: Peter Luckham, Chair  
Laura Patrick, Local Trustee 
Peter Grove, Local Trustee 
  
Staff Present: Stefan Cermak, Regional Planning Manager (RPM) 
Geordie Gordon, Planner 2 
Kristine Mayes, Planner 1 
Rob Pingle, Recorder  
  
Others Present: 
 
Brent Brochu-Ingram, Agricultural Advisory Planning Committee  
Theresa Duynstee, Agricultural Alliance 
Jan Steinman, Agricultural Advisory Planning Committee 
Anne Macey, Agricultural Alliance 
Doug Pepper, Ministry of Agriculture 
Conrad Pilon, Agricultural Advisory Planning Committee  
Ken Byron, Agricultural Advisory Planning Committee  
Nathan Roberson, Agricultural Advisory Planning Committee 
Brian Webster
, 
Agricultural Alliance
 
One member of the public  
  
These minutes follow the order of the agenda although the sequence may have varied.  
 
1. CALL TO ORDER 
  
Chair Luckham called the meeting to order at 4:02 p.m. and welcomed everyone to an electronic 
meeting of the Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee. Chair Luckham introduced himself, the 
Trustees and staff and acknowledged that the Local Trust Committee is meeting within Coast 
Salish Territory. Introductions were carried out. 
 
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 
 
By  general  consent the  agenda was approved with  the  addition  of Future  Meeting  on 
Reconciliation. 
 

 
 
Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee  
Special Meeting 
Minutes ADOPTED
  2 
July 15, 2021 
  
3. BUSINESS ITEMS 
 
 3.1   Local Trust Committee Chair's Welcome and Opening Remarks  
Chair Luckham reported this meeting is an opportunity for the Salt Spring Island Local Trust 
Committee  to  have  a  discussion  with  the  members  of  the  Salt  Spring  Island  Agricultural 
Advisory  Planning  Commission  (AAPC)  and  representatives  of  the  Salt  Spring  Island 
Agricultural Alliance on agriculture related issues. 
 
3.2 Minutes  from  the  February  11,  2021  Salt  Spring  Island  Local  Trust  Committee and 
Agricultural Advisory Planning Commission Meeting 
 
The minutes were received for information. 
3.3 SS-ALR-2021.1 – K. Tuttle – 231 Meadow Drive, SSI 
         Planner Gordon presented a verbal update on this application for information. 
In discussion the following comments were noted: 
 Concern was expressed and addressed about the agricultural activity on the property. 
 Question  was  raised  about  the  project  being  in  line  with  the  new Agricultural  Land 
Commission (ALC) directives. 
 3.4 ALC Information Update, dated July 12, 2021  
The ALC Information Update was received.   
 
In discussion the following comments were noted: 
 
Concern was expressed about the relationship between the Islands Trust and the ALC 
with these new rules in place and RPM Cermak discussed the implications.
 
 
A concern was addressed about the increased ability for farm worker housing to limit 
the amount of farm land available.
 
 
The Area Farm Plan was discussed as a document that will help provide local guidance 
to the implementation of these new rules.
 
 
A question was raised about increasing farmworker housing on non-Agricultural Land 
Reserve (ALR) land. 
 
 
A question was raised if a framework was possible for Islands Trust to limit expansion of 
housing on Agricultural Land Reserve (ALR) land unless farming was present.
 
 
A  question  was  raised  about  filing  a  notice  of  intent  about  soil  movement  in 
development  of a  residential  property. Ministry  staff  noted  that  this  was  to  ensure 
agricultural land was keep as undisturbed as possible; Salt Spring Island Local Trust Area 
Soil  Removal  and  Deposit  Regulation Bylaw No. 418  was  noted  as  a  similar  local 
regulation.
 
 

 
 
Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee  
Special Meeting 
Minutes ADOPTED
  3 
July 15, 2021 
  
 
 
 
SS-2021-140 
It was MOVED and SECONDED, 
That the Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee direct staff to prepare a report on options 
to  amend  bylaws  to  accommodate  the Agricultural  Land  Commission July  12, 2021 
announcement on residential flexibility in consideration of the 2020 Salt Spring Island Area 
Farm Plan Renewal. 
CARRIED 
 
  3.5 Discussion of Agricultural Priorities
 
 
In discussion the following comments were noted: 
 
A question was raised about the Islands Trust Council Policy Statement and how the 
Islands Trust perceives the importance of agriculture.
 
 
Chair Luckham spoke to the role of staff in the advancing of applications or policies to 
ensure the options presented are in alignment with all rules and regulations and that 
Trustees have more flexibility to make decisions.
 
 
Support was expressed for the advancement of agricultural activities in our community.
 
 
Islands Trust Policy Statement 4.4.2 was referred to and it was suggested “food security” 
be changed to “local food production”. 
 
 
Encouragement  was  given  to  work  towards  a  region  wide  discussion  on  agriculture 
within the Islands Trust area.
 
 
Section 3.23.2 of Bylaw No. 355 (Composting Regulations) was referred to and it was 
suggested removing  the  words “produced  onsite” would  result  in  easier  creation  of 
composting facilities on Salt Spring Island. 
 
 
The budget cycle was referred to as something to consider when advancing ideas that 
are agricultural related.
 
 
A question was raised about the possibility to map the properties that are accessing farm 
status through BC Assessment and staff commented that it was possible.
 
 
It was suggested that there are land use maps available to gain a better understanding 
of agriculture in the Islands Trust, the agricultural land use inventory was referred to as 
a form of similar information and Ministry staff agreed, stating they could provide some 
resources.
 
 
SS-2021-141 
It was MOVED and SECONDED, 
That the Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee direct staff to bring forward to the next 
special business meeting with the AAPC and AG Alliance the following items: a map indicating 
farm status and the most recent agricultural land use inventory. 
CARRIED
 
 

 
 
Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee  
Special Meeting 
Minutes ADOPTED
  4 
July 15, 2021 
  
 
 
Discussion continued and the following comments were noted: 
 A concern regarding water quality was raised as a major impact to viable agriculture with 
the increased impacts of climate change. 
 Questions were raised about the viability of the current Ganges Fire Hall being converted 
into a farmers market with the current zoning. Staff explained the zoning of the hall is 
Commercial 1 (C1) and the parking lot in front of it is Park and Reserves variant a (PR4(a)). 
 Further  discussion  ensued  about  the  ability  of  those  zones  to  allow  for  indoor  and 
outdoor farmers markets. Staff could not provide clear advice on that and offered to 
provide a review of the zoning regulations to the Agricultural Alliance. 
 It was noted that the Ganges Village Plan Project will be a good opportunity to address 
the above point. 
 It was noted that the watershed issue might be a point of conflict between the general 
community and farmers as there is misunderstanding about the good and the bad of 
agriculture. 
 There was an inquiry about the timeline on the watershed planning that is happening 
within the Islands Trust. 
 Concern was raised about the issues of septic systems and drainage due to additional 
housing on farm land having a negative impact on the watershed and farm land. 
 Feedback regarding agriculture as it relates to the Policy Statement was requested. 
 
3.6 Future meeting regarding reconciliation 
 
 
Trustee  Patrick  brought  forward  an  offer  from  Staff  Lisa  Wilcox  to present  an  education 
session on implementing reconciliation as it pertains to agriculture. 
 
In discussion the following comments were noted: 
 A  request  of  assistance  in  establishing the  role  of  farmers  in  ways  to  improve 
relationships with First Nations was expressed. 
  

 
 
Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee  
Special Meeting 
Minutes ADOPTED
  5 
July 15, 2021 
  
 
 
4. ADJOURNMENT 
 
The next meeting is scheduled on November 18, 2021. 
 
 
By general consent the meeting adjourned at 5:36 p.m. 
 
 
 
 
_________________________ 
Peter Luckham, Chair 
 
CERTIFIED CORRECT: 
 
 
_________________________ 
Rob Pingle, Recorder