North Pender Island Local Trust Committee special meeting, October 22, 2021

[0:00:02] Trustee Patrick: okay it's

[0:00:03] Voice 6: started all

[0:00:05] Trustee Patrick: right thank you we'll just give it a minute while it gets up and running

[0:00:08] Trustee Patrick: see some people have joined us so just stand by we'll kick the meeting off in about two seconds

[0:00:15] Trustee Patrick: looks like attendees have stabilized that just means numbers coming in oh still going up still

[0:00:24] Trustee Patrick: going all right i think it's the arrow so trustee should we kick off the meeting you're ready super

[0:00:33] Trustee Patrick: Well, good afternoon. I'd like to call this special meeting of the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee to order.

[0:00:40] Trustee Patrick: This meeting is being recorded and live streamed.

[0:00:43] Trustee Patrick: I always acknowledge how fortunate we are to be able to gather all across the Coast Salish people's traditional unceded territories.

[0:00:53] Trustee Patrick: I'm Laura Patrick, elected here on Salt Spring Island and chair of this local trust committee.

[0:01:00] Trustee Patrick: I'm joined today by Trustee Deb Morrison.

[0:01:03] Trustee Patrick: and Trustee Ben McConkie, good afternoon.

[0:01:06] Trustee Patrick: Together we make up your North Pender Island

[0:01:08] Trustee Patrick: Local Trust Committee.

[0:01:09] Trustee Patrick: This meeting is an official forum for us to make decisions

[0:01:13] Trustee Patrick: about land use planning matters

[0:01:14] Trustee Patrick: and discuss relevant business.

[0:01:16] Trustee Patrick: Also like to add that this is a place of employment

[0:01:19] Trustee Patrick: or even despite the fact that some of the staff

[0:01:22] Trustee Patrick: may be coming from their homes,

[0:01:23] Trustee Patrick: staff have a right to a safe and respectful workplace.

[0:01:26] Trustee Patrick: We're grateful for this ability for the electronic meeting

[0:01:28] Trustee Patrick: so that we don't have to travel.

[0:01:30] Trustee Patrick: um and we'll be meeting next week in person on north pender and i'm excited to be there again

[0:01:38] Trustee Patrick: um as this is an electronic meeting we'll over work to overcome any issues and appreciate your

[0:01:44] Trustee Patrick: patience and this is a special meeting to allow time for the trustees to discuss

[0:01:49] Trustee Patrick: planning projects there will be opportunities for the public to get answers and questions

[0:01:54] Trustee Patrick: questions, and state their opinions in meetings coming up. So I appreciate to allow us the time

[0:02:02] Trustee Patrick: to have this deep conversation today. We have many staff members joining us. We have Robin Elchuk

[0:02:08] Trustee Patrick: is an office administrative assistant who is helping to make this meeting run. Thank you,

[0:02:13] Trustee Patrick: Robin. Shannon Brayford, our minute taker. Thank you, Shannon. And Robert Kojima, regional planning

[0:02:18] Trustee Patrick: manager with us today so trustees we have an agenda before us so is there any additions or

[0:02:25] Trustee Patrick: changes that need to be made to the agenda i

[0:02:28] Trustee McConchie: just want to know how we're going to do this meeting

[0:02:30] Trustee McConchie: chair patrick um

[0:02:33] Trustee Patrick: well i guess we we have the land use bylaw item and i think we can either we'll

[0:02:39] Trustee Patrick: have the staff report and then we can talk about how if we want to break it up into sections or

[0:02:43] Trustee Patrick: how you want to have that conversation to to make that flow so i'll be looking to you for how you

[0:02:48] Trustee Patrick: you want to manage that conversation well there's six

[0:02:52] Trustee McConchie: items there's six items in the in the uh

[0:02:54] Trustee McConchie: report so probably if do we need to approve an agenda where we address the six different items

[0:03:00] Trustee McConchie: separately um

[0:03:02] Trustee Patrick: i don't think we have to modify well we can just adjust for that when we get to

[0:03:06] Trustee Patrick: that item i think yeah okay great

[0:03:08] Trustee Patrick: so if we can uh prove the minutes the agenda through general

[0:03:12] Trustee Patrick: consent that would be great yeah super so that means we'll run get right into this so we do have

[0:03:17] Trustee Patrick: have a staff report and I think Robert will go over the staff report and then we can break up

[0:03:21] Trustee Patrick: and have that conversation. So over to you, Robert.

[0:03:24] Voice 5: Thank you, Chair Patrick. So I'll just

[0:03:26] Voice 5: briefly introduce it. This is one of a number of staff reports. Local Trust Committee is considered

[0:03:32] Voice 5: for special meetings and irregular meetings as you progress through the land use bylaw review

[0:03:37] Voice 5: project. And it's getting down to kind of the final direction we're seeking from the Local

[0:03:45] Voice 5: trust committee um in order to finalize the draft the first draft of the amended land use bylaw

[0:03:51] Voice 5: review um as trustee mcconkey said there's a few topics um on the staff report and um probably

[0:04:02] Voice 5: uh local trust committee probably want to consider them one at a time

[0:04:05] Voice 5: and um the first of them is the maximum floor area and that's on page two of the staff report

[0:04:14] Voice 5: page three of the agenda package and so there's a summary of some changes or some direction the

[0:04:22] Voice 5: local trust committee gave at the previous meeting the result of that direction is outlined in the

[0:04:29] Voice 5: max of the table with the maximum floor areas as they're currently proposed in the draft

[0:04:34] Voice 5: and then the direction being sought or the discussion for the LTC to consider is about

[0:04:42] Voice 5: whether or not to establish a total maximum floor area per lot and that's in the table on page

[0:04:52] Voice 5: four of the agenda package so the first question or the first option is is this

[0:04:59] Voice 5: direction the local trust committee wants to pursue at least in the initial draft

[0:05:02] Voice 5: and if so um is the um uh the numbers um in the table the appropriate um approach to the to that

[0:05:11] Voice 5: draft all

[0:05:13] Trustee Patrick: right so why don't we just stay stop there and work on this first item of that if

[0:05:17] Trustee Patrick: you're done there robert yep thank you so trustees okay

[0:05:24] Trustee McConchie: uh trustee morrison do you want to go ahead

[0:05:26] Trustee McConchie: i just have a number of questions okay um so when discussing this issue the first question

[0:05:34] Trustee McConchie: I asked is, what is the problem, right? Like, what are we trying to address here? And I think,

[0:05:40] Trustee McConchie: Chair Patrick, you've mentioned that before. What are we trying to address here whenever the

[0:05:43] Trustee McConchie: conversation wildly goes off? And for myself, the current bylaw makes no sense and is not cohesive

[0:05:52] Trustee McConchie: with our neighboring island, South Pender. It's a totally different bylaw. It's 25%

[0:05:57] Trustee McConchie: lot coverage. So the direction in the report states, if the LTC would like to retain the

[0:06:04] Trustee McConchie: current lot coverage regulations, there's no action required. I feel like we need to work

[0:06:09] Trustee McConchie: on making this uniform. The current numbers right now would not make it uniform, if I'm not mistaken,

[0:06:17] Trustee McConchie: right? Planner Kojima, or Regional Manager Kojima, because we've asked on less than one acre,

[0:06:24] Trustee McConchie: acre the number is uh the floor area dwelling may not exceed 2,500 square feet uh on less than one

[0:06:32] Trustee McConchie: acre now I believe if it must uh if I'm correct me if I'm wrong but self-pender also uh this would

[0:06:40] Trustee McConchie: be different from self-pender correct currently right

[0:06:43] Voice 5: now currently and it's a bit of a moving

[0:06:45] Voice 5: target too because they're looking at amending their bylaw at the same time and uh the last

[0:06:50] Voice 5: self-pender meeting a couple weeks ago there was a proposal put on the table by one of the local

[0:06:55] Voice 5: trustees to to amend that very table in their bylaw as well the

[0:07:01] Trustee McConchie: self-pender is also addressing

[0:07:03] Trustee McConchie: this issue and they're they're also potentially lowering their numbers for allowable floor area

[0:07:08] Trustee McConchie: correct correct yeah

[0:07:10] Trustee McConchie: now did the trustee um so my first question is should we be having a joint

[0:07:15] Trustee McConchie: meeting with South Pender regarding this issue in December, because it seems to me that we're

[0:07:22] Trustee McConchie: working on the same issue. Because a concern I have is, I mean, because one of the arguments I

[0:07:28] Trustee McConchie: thought was that we should make the rules uniform between our two islands, or at least more cohesive,

[0:07:33] Trustee McConchie: more logical. And therefore, shouldn't we work together on this at a public forum?

[0:07:40] Trustee McConchie: well

[0:07:42] Trustee Patrick: I'm those are that's a good question we had that same question when we talked about the short

[0:07:48] Trustee Patrick: term vacation rentals we thought we would work toward having the same rules then we ended up

[0:07:52] Trustee Patrick: apart again so I kind of looked to the local trustees how how you would like to handle this

[0:07:59] Trustee Patrick: and yeah

[0:08:02] Trustee Morrison: I think I would I would echo on this particular issue it's it's more significant in

[0:08:10] Trustee Morrison: in foundational ways, I think, to what we're trying to do here and bring our land use bylaws

[0:08:17] Trustee Morrison: into compliance or into sort of consistency with our current OCP to actually have some coherence

[0:08:27] Trustee Morrison: between for house size between North and South Pender, given that they're working on it right

[0:08:33] Trustee Morrison: now. So it does seem like a good opportunity to try to get in line with them. What were their

[0:08:40] Trustee Morrison: are numbers i didn't see the actual numbers i

[0:08:43] Trustee McConchie: believe it was trustee right that was proposing

[0:08:46] Trustee McConchie: okay

[0:08:47] Trustee Morrison: yeah

[0:08:50] Trustee McConchie: um

[0:08:52] Trustee Morrison: and how much lower were they he

[0:08:56] Trustee Patrick: had done um i yeah i don't have the numbers in front

[0:08:59] Trustee Patrick: he had gone through and done analysis on each and every house in each and every range there

[0:09:05] Trustee Patrick: of how many had been made um would be made non you know non-performing um and had a count number

[0:09:15] Trustee Patrick: for each each of those houses in that that size range and then had a proposed method of dealing

[0:09:23] Trustee Patrick: with that so that there would be at the end of the day you know few homes that were the numbers

[0:09:30] Trustee Patrick: were low but it's also a smaller island so you know you'd probably have range a little higher

[0:09:35] Trustee Patrick: than what he had but um it was interesting but he was trying to end up at the end of the day with no

[0:09:40] Trustee Patrick: legal non-conforming status so

[0:09:44] Trustee McConchie: um okay so that's number one issue for myself is we should have a

[0:09:49] Trustee McConchie: separate meeting with the south pender trustees and you know hear from the community uh and we

[0:09:56] Trustee McConchie: we can, you know, we can kind of work together to make the, hopefully the rules logical and

[0:10:01] Trustee McConchie: cohesive. And then the second concern I have in the staff report that I think we need to

[0:10:05] Trustee McConchie: address is if we are going to address and change this bylaw, one of the points that Kim makes,

[0:10:13] Trustee McConchie: Planner Stockdale, excuse me, makes is establishing a total maximum floor area of

[0:10:17] Trustee McConchie: all buildings and structures on a lot could create additional obstacles for a property

[0:10:23] Trustee McConchie: owner or applicant. For example, if a property owner wishes to build a shed on the property as

[0:10:28] Trustee McConchie: part of this building permit process, staff may require site surveys and building plans

[0:10:33] Trustee McConchie: for all existing buildings and structures to ensure the proposal would not exceed.

[0:10:37] Trustee McConchie: So what I'm hearing is more staff time, more people, you know, the number one thing I hear

[0:10:42] Trustee McConchie: from folks who are building a home is the amount of obstacles that are in their way

[0:10:46] Trustee McConchie: to just getting a structure built to getting their family housed.

[0:10:51] Trustee McConchie: And I'm concerned about that comment that the staff have made in this report.

[0:10:56] Trustee McConchie: I was just wondering if my Chair Patrick or Trustee Morrison,

[0:11:01] Trustee McConchie: you know, does that concern you as well?

[0:11:07] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, the amount to get the house built to live in

[0:11:12] Trustee Morrison: is really about the floor for the dwelling.

[0:11:14] Trustee Morrison: installing um the the additional buildings and structures those are not like basic housing issues

[0:11:23] Trustee Morrison: those are accessory buildings right and so i i feel like that's not an argument that's in line

[0:11:30] Trustee Morrison: with what what you just said necessarily it does mean that there is some additional paperwork and

[0:11:35] Trustee Morrison: some additional like you know challenge like there's additional bureaucracy related to these

[0:11:41] Trustee Morrison: additional buildings and structures but the purpose of doing that is to actually and it's

[0:11:48] Trustee Morrison: this dilemma that we run into right like we 99% of the people on pender are not doing things with

[0:11:58] Trustee Morrison: additional structures that are problematic and they're having to jump through the bureaucratic

[0:12:03] Trustee Morrison: paperwork hoops because the one percent who are problematic we need to have them bounded

[0:12:07] Trustee Morrison: because they're building like giant structures that are multiple structures and they're

[0:12:11] Trustee Morrison: They're paving everything in there, you know, like, so, and those things are happening on

[0:12:17] Trustee Morrison: Pender.

[0:12:17] Trustee Morrison: And so, and they're happening with an increasing frequency, even in the last two years.

[0:12:23] Trustee Morrison: So that, that's where the concern sits, why this rule is there.

[0:12:29] Trustee Morrison: And so the question is, you know, for the 99% of people, they're having to bear the

[0:12:36] Trustee Morrison: additional paper load.

[0:12:37] Trustee Morrison: is it worth it to protect that one percent of like or five percent or whatever it ends up being

[0:12:42] Trustee Morrison: of spaces that do get sort of smoked with with inappropriate behaviors and

[0:12:50] Trustee Patrick: i ask so i i understand

[0:12:52] Trustee Patrick: some of the added cost would be i have to bring in a surveyor and that would not be an automatic

[0:12:58] Trustee Patrick: so if someone has a structure and now they're building an accessory building and the total is

[0:13:03] Trustee Patrick: still well under the the total limit would that not trigger a survey versus now they've got three

[0:13:11] Trustee Patrick: accessory buildings or something and the numbers creeping up closer um what what cases can maybe

[0:13:18] Trustee Patrick: you could talk about that

[0:13:19] Voice 5: robert so with the experience on south pender it's it's kind of

[0:13:23] Voice 5: those incremental additional accessory buildings right like it's not every not everyone builds

[0:13:28] Voice 5: their house and all their accessory buildings at the same time right it's it's incremental

[0:13:32] Voice 5: mental they'll build their house one year and then they'll build a new accessory building 10 years

[0:13:36] Voice 5: later and it's as when the site plans are submitted with the for the review for a building

[0:13:42] Voice 5: permit say for a new accessory building um the planner reviewing it um we'll have to make a

[0:13:48] Voice 5: judgment call or an interpretation like are they getting close potentially to that maximum floor

[0:13:53] Voice 5: area based on the plans that we have and if they are then we're going to require additional plans

[0:13:59] Voice 5: plans um or comp some sort of confirmation that they're not exceeding that total maximum floor

[0:14:05] Voice 5: area so

[0:14:07] Trustee Morrison: if they're so it's really only a concern if they get into like you know the last 10 or last

[0:14:12] Trustee Morrison: 25 or something of the floor generally well within it it's not really an issue okay so and from that

[0:14:19] Trustee Morrison: perspective it's not actually going to impact that many people necessarily because most of the um

[0:14:25] Trustee Morrison: folks that when you look at these numbers, most folks are well within them. Like I've actually

[0:14:30] Trustee Morrison: been looking around and thinking about like, what would this look like in these different contexts?

[0:14:35] Trustee Morrison: And most folks are within these boundaries. So these current ones, the question is, if we lower

[0:14:41] Trustee Morrison: them related to what the self-pandering numbers are, how much closer does that put people to the

[0:14:45] Trustee Morrison: boundary?

[0:14:48] Trustee McConchie: Okay. Another question I had was staff will request legal counsel to review the provision.

[0:14:59] Trustee McConchie: I'm just wondering if you could unpack that sentence.

[0:15:03] Voice 5: Where's the sentence? What page?

[0:15:04] Trustee McConchie: Sorry, it's page three.

[0:15:07] Trustee McConchie: Staff will request legal counsel to review the provision.

[0:15:10] Trustee McConchie: And this is talking about existing legal dwelling units

[0:15:13] Trustee McConchie: that would become non-conforming to retain their floor areas

[0:15:16] Trustee McConchie: at the time of by-law adoption.

[0:15:17] Trustee McConchie: All right, okay.

[0:15:18] Voice 5: Yeah, that's the wording that would go into.

[0:15:20] Voice 5: This is to, um, um,

[0:15:23] Voice 5: to, um,

[0:15:24] Voice 5: create a regulation that basically says despite you know the fact you're legal non-conforming

[0:15:30] Voice 5: under the local government act this is going to be this bylaw regulation that says

[0:15:36] Voice 5: that's basically the same thing but has that date in it that says anything built before the date of

[0:15:40] Voice 5: the adoption of the bylaw is legal to address the concern about people don't or people are

[0:15:47] Voice 5: concerned about becoming legal non-conforming and so the wording of that we'd want to get legal

[0:15:53] Voice 5: advice on that or review anyway yeah

[0:15:57] Trustee McConchie: that seems to be uh important a lot of people are worried

[0:16:01] Trustee McConchie: about their homes becoming legal non-conforming i'm wondering sorry oh i'm wondering one more time

[0:16:11] Trustee McConchie: yes he's

[0:16:13] Trustee Patrick: agreeing with you oh

[0:16:14] Trustee McConchie: right on sweet um so uh i guess uh we're gonna go to first reading

[0:16:20] Trustee McConchie: with this correct that's the process soon

[0:16:23] Voice 5: yeah that's the next

[0:16:24] Voice 5: step yeah so

[0:16:26] Trustee McConchie: after if we discuss

[0:16:27] Trustee McConchie: we look at this and we say this looks good we potentially schedule a meeting uh where it could

[0:16:32] Trustee McConchie: be first reading at that meeting in december correct so should we first ask for legal this

[0:16:38] Trustee McConchie: legal clarification before we go ahead with the december meeting and the first reading so i think

[0:16:45] Voice 5: when we get to next steps that's something for the ltc to discuss do you want a bylaw that's still

[0:16:52] Voice 5: got some decisions and some direction and some elements to be finalized in the in the draft

[0:17:00] Voice 5: do you want that to get first reading and then you go and hold community information meetings

[0:17:05] Voice 5: or do you want to go out to community information meetings um with just a draft bylaw and so

[0:17:10] Voice 5: So experience is it's once a bylaw gets first reading and you've seen this with the policy statement, there's a sense, even though it can be amended, rescinded and first read, there's a sense that it's got some degree of permanence to it.

[0:17:26] Voice 5: What

[0:17:27] Trustee McConchie: is that about? Why

[0:17:29] Trustee McConchie: is that the case? Like, it's not factual. Like, you can change something after first reading, correct?

[0:17:36] Trustee McConchie: Yes, absolutely.

[0:17:37] Trustee McConchie: Why don't we prove the community wrong?

[0:17:40] Trustee McConchie: This is a made up thing.

[0:17:43] Trustee McConchie: So we're having extra meetings before we go to first reading, slowing the process down,

[0:17:47] Trustee McConchie: because there's a feeling that after first reading, everything is done, even though we

[0:17:52] Trustee McConchie: can go in here from the community and they tell us, well, actually, no, we don't like

[0:17:55] Trustee McConchie: the bylaw or we could change our minds after.

[0:17:58] Trustee McConchie: Well, I assume

[0:17:58] Voice 5: you're going to hold community information meetings regardless to get back

[0:18:01] Voice 5: on the bylaw after first reading or before first reading.

[0:18:05] Voice 5: So it's more just a matter of what follows what.

[0:18:07] Trustee McConchie: Yeah, fair enough. Okay, I'd leave it to my fellow trustees to maybe address it, but it's clear where the direction should go, I think.

[0:18:15] Trustee Patrick: I think it's consistent messaging. And that would be something important as we talk about next steps that any of us that are in opportunities to have conversations, whichever way we go, that we're consistent in our messages so we don't confuse people.

[0:18:28] Trustee McConchie: Okay, well, which way do you want to go? What do you guys want to do?

[0:18:30] Trustee McConchie: because we have essentially you know we've voted on numbers that we need to explain the community

[0:18:37] Trustee McConchie: what's happening and why we need to explain to them what would happen to legal non-conforming

[0:18:41] Trustee McConchie: how many people would impact by legal non-conforming that's what people kind of want to know

[0:18:45] Voice 6: and

[0:18:45] Trustee McConchie: they want to know that this isn't going to increase bureaucracy and create a whole bunch of

[0:18:49] Trustee McConchie: schmozzles with costs and you know getting impediments like the island's trust should

[0:18:53] Trustee McConchie: be working for people right so i mean that communication needs to be really clear so

[0:18:58] Trustee McConchie: So what do you guys want to do? What do you think? Do you want to do the community information meetings first?

[0:19:02] Trustee McConchie: And as things with the numbers here stand?

[0:19:04] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, a couple of couple of things about that.

[0:19:07] Trustee Morrison: So the Islands Trust actually. So the local government part of our mandate here in our local trust committee is about working for our communities.

[0:19:16] Trustee Morrison: The Islands Trust Act is actually working for the environment. So like, you know, the mandate for that is actually about the environment.

[0:19:23] Trustee Morrison: and that is always a tension for us right that we have to juggle and we should be really honest

[0:19:30] Trustee Morrison: and frank with community about that that we're actually not doing these bylaw changes only for

[0:19:36] Trustee Morrison: people we're doing them for the mandate of a protect and preserve right and so from that

[0:19:41] Trustee Morrison: perspective a couple things and I don't know where we want to have this conversation across here but

[0:19:48] Trustee Morrison: I'm happy to jump into it now. So these numbers that are in here right now, they could be a little

[0:19:54] Trustee Morrison: bit high if we want to bring them in line with what the South Pender numbers are. And I really

[0:20:00] Trustee Morrison: want to have that conversation and make sure that they're in line. So because what I

[0:20:04] Trustee Morrison: don't want to

[0:20:05] Trustee Morrison: have to do is I don't want to have to have these numbers come down during the bylaw review. That's

[0:20:10] Trustee Morrison: going to be very problematic. Having them go up is a different issue. Having them come down is very

[0:20:16] Trustee Morrison: problematic. So I'd rather put lower numbers into the draft bylaw that goes forward than put higher

[0:20:21] Trustee Morrison: numbers into, you know, because I just think that's going to cause massive tension. And then

[0:20:26] Trustee Morrison: just talk to the community about why the numbers are lower and what that means. And it absolutely

[0:20:30] Trustee Morrison: will mean a bit more bureaucracy for those people who want to exceed the numbers. It doesn't mean

[0:20:36] Trustee Morrison: that you can't exceed the numbers. It just means you're going to have to file some paperwork and

[0:20:39] Trustee Morrison: plans about why and how you're going to handle that. And given the concerns about why we're

[0:20:45] Trustee Morrison: are doing this, like how you're going to mitigate those concerns carefully, you know, and so and

[0:20:50] Trustee Morrison: that's the community conversation I really want to have. Because I think those are the things that

[0:20:55] Trustee Morrison: are going to help people understand that generally speaking, their houses are not exceeding these

[0:20:59] Trustee Morrison: numbers. And like, you know, 80% of the houses on this island are probably within the 2000 square

[0:21:05] Trustee Morrison: foot level for the under an acre. It's only those like people that are exceeding that for very

[0:21:13] Trustee Morrison: very specific reasons, you know, that we really need to have that unpacked. And I'm fine to do

[0:21:19] Trustee Morrison: that. That's a great conversation to have with community. And I think having that after we do

[0:21:25] Trustee Morrison: the bylaws is fine. I do think it would be helpful to have that one piece reviewed related to the

[0:21:33] Trustee Morrison: non-conforming because before we go to the bylaw, just because it's going to be the universal

[0:21:39] Trustee Morrison: universal question we get and I want to have the language right so that we don't have to say well

[0:21:43] Trustee Morrison: we don't know like I'd rather be able to say yeah we

[0:21:46] Trustee Patrick: know we got checked yeah

[0:21:47] Trustee Patrick: I just uh I I believe

[0:21:50] Trustee Patrick: the numbers on that you are smaller than the South Penn uh you are smaller than the South

[0:21:57] Trustee Patrick: Pender numbers as they've been approved in the last meeting okay why

[0:22:02] Trustee McConchie: don't we have a community

[0:22:03] Trustee McConchie: information meeting with the Bell Pender trustees let's

[0:22:09] Trustee Morrison: do

[0:22:10] Trustee McConchie: that what do you guys think are there

[0:22:13] Trustee Morrison: is really different around residential house size they

[0:22:16] Trustee Patrick: have five categories instead of the four

[0:22:20] Trustee Patrick: and they only have dwelling size is that correct robert i'm oops you're on mute they

[0:22:30] Voice 5: do have in

[0:22:31] Voice 5: their current bylaw as well they have a total of all buildings maximum floor area for all buildings

[0:22:36] Voice 5: as well yeah

[0:22:38] Voice 6: they meet on

[0:22:39] Voice 5: november they meet on november 5th right and that's the next meeting

[0:22:43] Voice 5: south penders the regular meeting and this is on the agenda or their their version of this is on

[0:22:48] Voice 5: the agenda okay

[0:22:50] Trustee McConchie: so can we let's do what do you think trustees i mean let's let's make sense to

[0:22:54] Trustee McConchie: me we had a joint meeting before regarding this uh i found it to be very helpful hearing from

[0:23:00] Trustee McConchie: trustee thorne and trustee right uh and i i think now that we've had lots of time to process this

[0:23:06] Trustee McConchie: communicate there's been numbers proposed now it may i would i and it would give a chance for all

[0:23:12] Trustee McConchie: islanders to kind of come together at a meeting to be informed and then it gives a chance for the

[0:23:17] Trustee McConchie: uh legal uh discussion to already to take place and then we're ready to come out there and talk

[0:23:22] Trustee McConchie: and hear from the community so

[0:23:25] Trustee Morrison: i like the idea the challenges are that we're doing a much broader

[0:23:28] Trustee Morrison: project than they are so like because their project is like focused i think on just residential house

[0:23:33] Trustee Morrison: sides isn't it uh

[0:23:35] Voice 5: there's a couple other minor amendments as well but uh that's that's the big

[0:23:40] Voice 5: that's the big topic for that particular project so

[0:23:43] Trustee Morrison: maybe what we do is we like ask for an invite

[0:23:46] Trustee Morrison: to their meeting and we offer them an invite to our december meeting so that we cross-pollinate

[0:23:51] Trustee Morrison: clearly um and and we from their november meeting we see where their numbers like where their

[0:23:58] Trustee Morrison: community kind of conversation lands on that um but i i agree then that i think it would be really

[0:24:05] Trustee Morrison: helpful to be listening to each other more officially um and if they want us it would be

[0:24:09] Trustee Morrison: be nice to be able to have them speak in our meeting invite them intentionally into the agenda

[0:24:13] Trustee Morrison: and ditto the vice versa i

[0:24:17] Trustee Patrick: just want to ask robert another quick because one of the things that um

[0:24:23] Trustee Patrick: trustee thorn was working on was to then not have any legal non-conforming by rezoning all of those

[0:24:29] Trustee Patrick: houses that fell over um what would what would be in would would that even be a method on this

[0:24:36] Trustee Patrick: side or so that would be separate this

[0:24:38] Voice 5: is too many lots on north pender

[0:24:40] Voice 5: compared to south pender

[0:24:41] Voice 5: um because of the number of lots and lots that have constructed houses on south pender

[0:24:47] Voice 5: um cameron was able to pinpoint the handful of lots you know two one or two in each of the

[0:24:52] Voice 5: categories that based on bc assessment data and people might come forward and with others

[0:24:57] Voice 5: um that exceeded what his proposed was and then you would just uh they would just site specifically

[0:25:03] Voice 5: specifically zone those properties in their bylaw. So there'd be maybe half a dozen

[0:25:07] Voice 5: little site-specific zones that allowed those properties to have a larger floor area.

[0:25:14] Trustee Patrick: Because I think it's important for the local trustee in particular, because you'll be facing

[0:25:18] Trustee Patrick: more of these questions of, you know, why aren't you offering that on North Pender? So I think

[0:25:23] Trustee Patrick: it's important to have that narrative.

[0:25:25] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, I like the idea of doing that. Just

[0:25:28] Trustee Morrison: just like, I think it's a really good method because it just makes, there's no gray area,

[0:25:33] Trustee Morrison: but to be able to do that, we'd have to do something like the well, um, commercial well

[0:25:38] Trustee Morrison: registry program, like where if you're over a certain size, you basically have to register.

[0:25:42] Trustee Morrison: And then we like be, you know, map you into the system, but Robert, I'm sure that's like

[0:25:47] Trustee Morrison: a massive headache given the number on North Pender, but your thoughts. Yeah.

[0:25:51] Voice 5: So it would,

[0:25:52] Voice 5: yeah. Like you say, it would be, uh, you know, here's your three month window or whatever to

[0:25:56] Voice 5: to come forward if your if your house exceeds a certain size and we'll include you in the in the

[0:26:00] Voice 5: in the bylaw um and then the bylaw would just you know there'd be dozens probably of little

[0:26:07] Voice 5: site-specific zones so from

[0:26:10] Voice 5: both those perspectives it's not ideal all

[0:26:15] Trustee Morrison: right do we

[0:26:16] Trustee McConchie: need to provide

[0:26:17] Trustee McConchie: direction at all because i'd like to send a formal invite to the self-pender trustee

[0:26:22] Voice 5: So two things, like one, you could specifically say, um, make the, make the numbers in the

[0:26:31] Voice 5: North Bender draft, um, consistent with South Benders.

[0:26:35] Trustee McConchie: Well, I haven't seen those.

[0:26:36] Trustee McConchie: I don't know.

[0:26:39] Voice 5: So, and there it's like, um, trust, um, chair Patrick was saying there, you know, they've

[0:26:44] Voice 5: got different categories too, in terms of the lot sizes.

[0:26:47] Voice 5: Um, and so I'm just flipping back and forth between the two here.

[0:26:53] Voice 5: Yes.

[0:26:54] Voice 5: Yes, North Benders are lower than South Benders.

[0:26:59] Trustee Morrison: That's interesting because I look at ours and I think they're really reasonable.

[0:27:04] Trustee Morrison: So for what we're talking about.

[0:27:08] Trustee McConchie: Yeah, I want to have a person in meeting.

[0:27:11] Trustee McConchie: Sorry, what am I trying to say in English?

[0:27:12] Trustee McConchie: I want to have an in-person meeting about this issue to hear from community members.

[0:27:16] Trustee McConchie: And it would be great to have the South Bender trustees join us in an effort that is cohesion.

[0:27:22] Voice 5: So that's, yeah, that's the second part of your question.

[0:27:24] Voice 5: And yeah, resolution to extend an invitation to the South Bender trustees to attend LTC, a special LTC meeting, presumably, on the topic of floor area, maximum floor area for houses and other buildings.

[0:27:42] Voice 5: Yeah, that'd be great.

[0:27:44] Voice 5: Given the timing of the South Bender meeting, perhaps just one of you could attend and then report back to the North Bender LTC.

[0:27:53] Voice 5: see yeah

[0:27:54] Trustee McConchie: trustee morris i'm not sure if you're in new york or something like that so no i'm in

[0:27:58] Trustee Morrison: glasgow for the un meeting so glasgow

[0:28:00] Trustee McConchie: of course yeah well then uh glasgow um well i i'd be happy

[0:28:06] Trustee McConchie: to attend okay

[0:28:08] Trustee Morrison: um but i would like them to be invited to ours yeah

[0:28:14] Voice 5: of course yeah a motion

[0:28:15] Voice 5: yes

[0:28:16] Trustee Morrison: please so i move that the north pender island or sorry the north pender local trust committee

[0:28:21] Trustee Morrison: invite the south pender local trust committee trustees to the december special meeting on land

[0:28:32] Trustee Morrison: use bylaw um

[0:28:37] Trustee Patrick: i was gonna say before you second it let's give shannon a moment to read that back

[0:28:41] Trustee Patrick: i

[0:28:43] Voice 2: can read that back to you that the island local trust committee invite the south pender island

[0:28:47] Voice 2: local trust committee trustees to the december special meeting on land use bylaws is that good

[0:28:54] Voice 2: good direction

[0:28:54] Trustee Patrick: robert or yeah

[0:28:56] Voice 5: that's that's good you mean you could refine it to be more specific

[0:28:59] Voice 5: but that's fine

[0:28:59] Trustee Patrick: okay okay is that seconded yeah second

[0:29:03] Trustee Patrick: by boston mccunkey any discussion

[0:29:06] Trustee Patrick: all those in favor and that's carried so do we need any other

[0:29:13] Trustee Patrick: direction than on this at this time

[0:29:15] Trustee Patrick: robert

[0:29:15] Trustee McConchie: can you send the south or i don't even know if the south banner trustees know what we're

[0:29:19] Trustee McConchie: doing so i'm wondering can you send this to them or something yep like

[0:29:22] Trustee McConchie: yeah send this doc

[0:29:23] Trustee McConchie: especially the numbers we're looking at.

[0:29:26] Trustee McConchie: Yeah. And I just want to say, if there's people listening,

[0:29:30] Trustee McConchie: I really want to hear feedback from folks and questions and concerns they have

[0:29:34] Trustee McConchie: about this.

[0:29:35] Trustee McConchie: I want to get it all on the table and I really look forward to talking about

[0:29:37] Trustee McConchie: it in person. That's going to be great.

[0:29:41] Trustee Morrison: And also in our, you know, community consultations on this,

[0:29:46] Trustee Morrison: I really encourage people to not just state opinions again, like state,

[0:29:51] Trustee Morrison: why, like, why is this working for you or why isn't it?

[0:29:54] Trustee Morrison: Cause that helps us make decisions.

[0:29:56] Trustee Morrison: Just like having a thousand people say no, isn't actually that help.

[0:30:00] Trustee Morrison: helpful because we're, we're not just making decisions for the sheer number of people that

[0:30:04] Trustee Morrison: say yes or no. We're trying to understand it in relation to the environmental policies that we're

[0:30:08] Trustee Morrison: governing. So like it's don't start a letter campaign. That's not going to help your case,

[0:30:14] Trustee Morrison: like be clear and tell us why you like it or why you don't, or what you'd like to see differently.

[0:30:22] Trustee Patrick: Okay. So anything else on the floor area? No. Can I move on then to the agricultural

[0:30:30] Trustee Patrick: So just

[0:30:32] Voice 5: briefly it's on page five of the agenda package discussed at the last time the local trust committee reviewed the draft regulations you sent them specifically to the agricultural advisory committee, you've got a response attached from the PC chair, I'm also sort

[0:30:52] Voice 5: of the same time there's these changes to the agricultural land reserve act and regulations

[0:31:00] Voice 5: that in a nutshell will allow second dwellings on agricultural land outright no longer need approval

[0:31:07] Voice 5: of the ALC for a second dwelling they're limited in floor area essentially for north pender though

[0:31:14] Voice 5: it would be a 90 square meter maximum the ALC regulations about a thousand square feet

[0:31:21] Voice 5: The purpose that's been stated for this amendment to the legislation is to allow for relatives for rental properties for rental revenue for farms, and for farm worker accommodations that is one of the rationales for allowing the second second dwelling.

[0:31:43] Voice 5: So the draft Land Use By-law amendments would build in that floor area, that outright floor area.

[0:31:50] Voice 5: Cottages are already permitted and have been for many years in the agricultural zone.

[0:31:55] Voice 5: Previously, in order to build a cottage, the landowner would need to go to the ALC for permission.

[0:32:01] Voice 5: Now they won't need to. And as currently drafted, it would be amended to allow up to 90 square meters,

[0:32:08] Voice 5: is consistent with the ALR regulation amendment.

[0:32:12] Voice 5: The comments back from the Agriculture Advisory Committee,

[0:32:15] Voice 5: they expressed concerns that allowing cottages

[0:32:19] Voice 5: for farm worker accommodation is not a sufficient solution

[0:32:22] Voice 5: for farm worker accommodation on North Pender.

[0:32:25] Voice 5: They would like more engagement

[0:32:27] Voice 5: with the Local Trust Committee on the issue.

[0:32:30] Voice 5: So some options are, you know, the LTC could, you know,

[0:32:33] Voice 5: continue to engage with the APC.

[0:32:38] Voice 5: on this issue um or if the ltc thinks that there's some merit in in sort of diving deeper into farm

[0:32:46] Voice 5: worker accommodation and concerns about farm worker accommodation the need for farm worker

[0:32:50] Voice 5: accommodation how to provide for it while meeting other other concerns um you know maybe time to

[0:32:57] Voice 5: sort of put this aside like uh park it this is a future a future topic so those are the basically

[0:33:03] Voice 5: the options okay

[0:33:08] Trustee Morrison: so i guess the question i

[0:33:10] Trustee Morrison: have related to this if i can jump in for a second

[0:33:13] Trustee Morrison: um the question i have related to this is um like what of our current regulations

[0:33:23] Trustee Morrison: will inhibit people if we park it and have longer conversations with the

[0:33:27] Trustee Morrison: alc al sorry the acronyms are killing me this week the apc alp

[0:33:39] Trustee Morrison: sorry, the agricultural folks in our community giving us feedback. So AAPC, there you go. So

[0:33:48] Trustee Morrison: what will inhibit farm accommodations in our current bylaws that a delay will like just

[0:33:56] Trustee Morrison: cause frustration? Is there a feeling for that?

[0:34:00] Voice 5: Hard to say from the correspondence and I haven't

[0:34:03] Voice 5: attended any of their recent meetings um what i guess can say is that um as of january 1st um

[0:34:12] Voice 5: uh an agricult an alr agriculturally zoned alr property they could now build their cottage

[0:34:19] Voice 5: um without going to the alc for a non-farm use um or a non-adhering um residential use

[0:34:27] Voice 5: so they now call it the ALC um they could just apply for a building permit for their 56 square

[0:34:34] Voice 5: meter cottage under the current um zoning and then if the amendment proceeds they could build a 990

[0:34:40] Voice 5: square meter cottage um without with just a building permit essentially so

[0:34:46] Trustee Morrison: it'd be good to

[0:34:47] Trustee Morrison: get to at least that um and then have continued conversations uh around what other things that

[0:34:54] Trustee Morrison: we could do to help foster that i kind of want to like name that um you know in in various things

[0:35:02] Trustee Morrison: in british columbia and so much more in the last year as people have like tuned in to both climate

[0:35:11] Trustee Morrison: and like global food chain um issues local food production is critical and so like being able to

[0:35:20] Trustee Morrison: figure out how to support our local farmers is actually really really important because I know

[0:35:24] Trustee Morrison: that there's been a lot of trouble with being able to get and and house farm workers and so we have

[0:35:31] Trustee Morrison: to figure it out so I I do think having deeper conversations with the AAPC to figure out everything

[0:35:37] Trustee McConchie: that we can I've got a

[0:35:39] Trustee McConchie: couple of uh questions and then comments um so the first one is uh what's a

[0:35:45] Trustee McConchie: a farm worker or my internet's unstable sorry no

[0:35:50] Trustee Morrison: we can hear you okay

[0:35:51] Trustee McConchie: what's a farm worker

[0:35:52] Trustee McConchie: their

[0:35:56] Trustee Morrison: legal definition it robert i

[0:35:59] Voice 5: mean the alc has has its guidelines and regulations and some

[0:36:03] Voice 5: of its i know some of it is tied to the the federal temporary foreign worker program for

[0:36:11] Voice 5: farm workers um and beyond that i'm not sure if the how the how the alc defines if they do at all

[0:36:20] Voice 5: a farm worker in a universal way rather than on a case-by-case basis okay

[0:36:26] Trustee McConchie: like so if i live at this

[0:36:29] Trustee McConchie: property and i pick up my shovel for five minutes and i dig a hole am i on the farm am i a farm

[0:36:35] Trustee McConchie: farmworker is my question. I

[0:36:36] Voice 5: think you're, you're getting to the issue.

[0:36:41] Trustee McConchie: Okay. So I'm trying to

[0:36:44] Trustee McConchie: figure out ways for people to live on this Island. One of the things that I've heard from, it's been

[0:36:49] Trustee McConchie: weird the past three, probably two weeks, rather I've had three separate folks, three separate

[0:36:55] Trustee McConchie: families, aging parents want to stay on this property, their properties, ALR, uh, and the,

[0:37:01] Trustee McConchie: and then their kids want to move in the house and they want to live.

[0:37:05] Trustee McConchie: So there are farm workers, I guess, I don't know, but I guess what I'm,

[0:37:09] Trustee McConchie: I'm asking is, you know, doesn't this make sense? This,

[0:37:14] Trustee McConchie: this thing that the ALC is proposing could potentially help some of the

[0:37:20] Trustee McConchie: housing issues on, on our Island potentially,

[0:37:22] Trustee McConchie: but they just have to be farm workers, which isn't clear to me.

[0:37:26] Voice 5: Not for not, no. With the changes that now the ALC is now allowing outright,

[0:37:31] Voice 5: right right without having to get approval a second dwelling yeah

[0:37:34] Trustee McConchie: and

[0:37:35] Voice 5: uh there's no restrictions

[0:37:37] Voice 5: on who uses it but in their their description or their media release even for this uh legislative

[0:37:45] Voice 5: change it talks about comment it could be used accommodation for family accommodation for farm

[0:37:51] Voice 5: workers accommodation for renters um for rental property or for agritourism those are the four

[0:37:58] Voice 5: things that i think were listed as the kind of the supporting information so yeah that that would

[0:38:05] Voice 5: address some of those issues at least by allowing the second thousand square foot if you like

[0:38:11] Voice 5: dwelling just basically what 90 square meters is so

[0:38:16] Trustee McConchie: what do what do as a trust committee just

[0:38:18] Trustee McConchie: just so i'm understanding what do we have to do with this because this is all alc right are we

[0:38:24] Trustee McConchie: so what what do we as a when do we come into play

[0:38:28] Voice 5: so the ALC is allowed he's going to allow

[0:38:31] Voice 5: this on January 1st local governments could prohibit that second rig oh

[0:38:37] Trustee McConchie: I thought the ALC

[0:38:39] Trustee McConchie: supersedes the some

[0:38:40] Voice 5: things there's some things that are considered farm uses the local that's

[0:38:44] Trustee McConchie: and there's other things that

[0:38:46] Voice 5: local governments can regulate or not even permit at all and this

[0:38:52] Trustee Patrick: for example on salt spring the agricultural advisory planning committee didn't want the

[0:38:57] Trustee Patrick: second dwelling open to just rental they wanted it restrained to farm related living why would

[0:39:06] Trustee Morrison: that why on that because from my perspective if farms need the help they would make the choice

[0:39:15] Trustee Morrison: to have housing for the help if they don't need the help but they're financially shaky

[0:39:20] Trustee Morrison: and they need the grounds for rental okay like that's just increases our rental stock so i'm

[0:39:28] Trustee Morrison: not sure that why you'd restrict it necessarily i'm

[0:39:30] Trustee Patrick: just saying that was what our aapc's

[0:39:32] Trustee Patrick: no

[0:39:33] Trustee Morrison: but why i'm curious why you're

[0:39:35] Trustee Patrick: right exactly i don't recall the conversation the other thing

[0:39:38] Trustee Patrick: we're looking on salt spring is on the larger farms of using a um an exchange instead of giving

[0:39:47] Trustee Patrick: giving up your right to subdivide to have the additional dwellings so like

[0:39:51] Voice 5: dwellings equivalent

[0:39:52] Voice 5: to lots kind of yeah

[0:39:54] Trustee Patrick: yeah

[0:39:55] Voice 5: north pender none of the agricultural lots on north pender are

[0:39:57] Voice 5: subdividable there

[0:39:59] Trustee Patrick: you go so the minimum you don't

[0:40:00] Trustee Patrick: get that option okay

[0:40:02] Voice 5: and um just a trustee

[0:40:04] Voice 5: morrison's um discussion earlier yeah i think things will change over time for certain properties

[0:40:09] Voice 5: right at one point they might need farm workers another point they might need accommodation for

[0:40:14] Voice 5: family members another point they might need rental rental revenue yeah

[0:40:18] Trustee Morrison: i mean there's one

[0:40:18] Trustee Morrison: farm that's for sale here and like i don't know how you buy a farm like that and not have some

[0:40:23] Trustee Morrison: kind of other income on the farm to be able to make the farm viable so i don't know the

[0:40:30] Trustee McConchie: question

[0:40:30] Trustee McConchie: before the local trust committee is why would we prohibit

[0:40:33] Voice 6: this essentially

[0:40:36] Trustee McConchie: right yeah now

[0:40:37] Trustee McConchie: going on

[0:40:38] Trustee McConchie: in the report to summarize the AAPC, this is on page five in your hymnal, to summarize the AAPC

[0:40:46] Trustee McConchie: expressed concern that allowing the use of cottages for farm worker accommodation

[0:40:51] Trustee McConchie: is not a sufficient solution to provide adequate farm worker accommodation on North Pender.

[0:40:56] Trustee McConchie: So this isn't actually enough. So assuming we don't prohibit it, and I'm still not clear why

[0:41:04] Trustee McConchie: we would prohibit it but they're all saying well this doesn't go far enough and then and then the

[0:41:08] Trustee McConchie: staff come back and say like our line of stress staff and say oh by the way if you want to address

[0:41:13] Trustee McConchie: that there are concerns you got to do a separate project so i'm like i'm just wondering uh maybe

[0:41:20] Trustee McConchie: robert you can explain what why is that why would that be a set

[0:41:23] Voice 5: well i think because because the

[0:41:25] Voice 5: concerns were unarticulated clearly it's not like yeah second a cottage of 90 square meters is great

[0:41:31] Voice 5: but we would also like a third dwelling of you know 50 square meters or whatever for farm workers

[0:41:40] Voice 5: in dormitory style accommodation something like that and on certain properties that's the other

[0:41:46] Voice 5: thing to keep in mind right if you allow outright in addition to the house of what's going to be

[0:41:53] Voice 5: now 4 000 square feet probably um a thousand square foot cottage and additional farm worker

[0:42:00] Voice 5: or accommodation that would apply unless you made it site specific to like one or two farms

[0:42:06] Voice 5: um that would apply to anyone any land that is in the agricultural land reserve and zoned

[0:42:11] Voice 5: agricultural yeah

[0:42:14] Trustee Morrison: and that's that's where i'm like not really okay for a universal sort of move to

[0:42:20] Trustee Morrison: increase because every time you build a building you're using land and we we do want to protect

[0:42:25] Trustee Morrison: the agricultural land itself so um i would be like consistent with the current expansion and

[0:42:33] Trustee Morrison: not constrain it necessarily for the uh alr we can put the bylaw forward that way and if people

[0:42:39] Trustee Morrison: want it constrained they can come back at us with like why and then um and additional things i think

[0:42:46] Trustee Morrison: would have to be in conversation to understand why they would be universal and if they aren't

[0:42:51] Trustee Morrison: universal and we can have those conversations with the aapc just as conversations with the aapc we

[0:42:58] Trustee Morrison: don't need to have them as a separate project right now we can just like dive in and have some

[0:43:02] Trustee Morrison: conversations with the aapc and and figure out if there is a project to be had like if there is an

[0:43:07] Trustee Morrison: additional thing that needs to be done but i kind of feel it might be a site specific issue and then

[0:43:12] Voice 5: i suspect so yeah and then maybe they'll come back with well it's really it's about this one or two

[0:43:16] Voice 5: of these farms that need this and then could be a site specific because zone and zone to allow

[0:43:21] Voice 5: something on those um when this issue has come up in the past not only north bender but on other

[0:43:26] Voice 5: islands the the one solution that seems to work best is a temporary use permit for farm worker

[0:43:31] Voice 5: accommodation um because it often is you know for a few seasons um and it's not permanent and that's

[0:43:42] Voice 5: what the ALC supports is non-permanent accommodation, like mobile homes, essentially.

[0:43:53] Trustee Morrison: And are they ever going to permit tiny homes properly? Because that's really what happens

[0:43:57] Trustee Morrison: in this community around farm workers is people like use tiny homes.

[0:44:03] Voice 5: Is the ALC going to look at tiny homes?

[0:44:05] Trustee Morrison: No, I'm just saying the CRD, and I know like building code wise, tiny homes are not popular,

[0:44:10] Trustee Morrison: but I think they should be a viable option in this situation.

[0:44:13] Trustee Morrison: that's a that's a whole whole different topic there's

[0:44:15] Trustee Morrison: a big bc

[0:44:16] Voice 5: housing paper on tiny homes

[0:44:17] Voice 5: that's uh yeah it's a really good summary of the issues yeah it's

[0:44:22] Trustee McConchie: interesting whenever oh sorry

[0:44:24] Trustee McConchie: trustee morrison go ahead okay

[0:44:25] Trustee Patrick: i was

[0:44:26] Trustee McConchie: just gonna say go ahead sure oh

[0:44:28] Trustee Patrick: the aapc has requested that

[0:44:31] Trustee Patrick: we have some meetings together and uh going forward and i think on salt spring we do that

[0:44:35] Trustee Patrick: now we meet quarterly with the aapc and the agricultural alliance just on a joint meeting

[0:44:41] Trustee Patrick: and it's been really good for advancing overall understanding and understanding priorities and

[0:44:47] Trustee Patrick: how to help them yeah

[0:44:51] Trustee McConchie: okay cool so i just have a couple observations it's always interesting that

[0:44:55] Trustee McConchie: temporary use permits whenever there's a challenging issue it's like we govern with

[0:44:59] Trustee McConchie: temporary use permits i'm wondering if the government should just be a temporary use

[0:45:03] Trustee McConchie: permit like everything just be temporary i don't know if that's a smart idea like

[0:45:07] Trustee McConchie: The question is really, I guess, before the LTC is, you know, we're asking to increase density, right?

[0:45:15] Trustee McConchie: And part of the issue on the islands is that in the summertime, there's lots of seasonal employment, right?

[0:45:22] Trustee McConchie: So allowing for kind of a bunky, whatever, dormitory-style thing actually would take a load of pressure off the housing market and housing stock here.

[0:45:33] Trustee McConchie: because often seasonal workers are looking for a bunch of random houses or places or rentals and

[0:45:37] Trustee McConchie: can't find it. And often the farmers or the businesses don't have any place to house their

[0:45:41] Trustee McConchie: employees. Right. So, you know, it's a it's a really good question and it is potentially a

[0:45:47] Trustee McConchie: solution. You know, just as far as whether it's temporary or not, I don't know. I don't know if

[0:45:53] Trustee McConchie: that's that's the right way. But I agree that we need to talk to the APC. I'm actually having a

[0:45:57] Trustee McConchie: meeting with an informal meeting with some some of the members to hear their thoughts further on

[0:46:03] Trustee McConchie: this uh next week uh but i think we should schedule a formal meeting i i i believe that

[0:46:07] Trustee McConchie: that's what i'm hearing from you guys okay great so maybe so uh robert you've got options to

[0:46:15] Trustee McConchie: consider uh adding policies to the project list doesn't seem like there's an interest in that

[0:46:21] Trustee McConchie: because we've got other things we're working on currently uh and we could request the aapc to add

[0:46:27] Trustee McConchie: additional research and comments for farm worker accommodation this option could delay the timeline

[0:46:31] Trustee McConchie: line by two to four months rather than do that why don't we just meet with them is kind of the

[0:46:35] Trustee McConchie: what we're saying yep yeah okay let's do it you meet

[0:46:39] Voice 5: with them report back maybe that'll lead to

[0:46:41] Voice 5: a more formal meeting maybe it won't maybe you'll get enough information you can report back to the

[0:46:46] Voice 5: ltc and maybe they'll have something specific that you can you can consider at that at that point

[0:46:51] Voice 5: um and that there could be something that could just be included in the draft okay

[0:46:57] Trustee McConchie: or maybe you

[0:46:58] Voice 5: come back and say well they've got a whole bunch of things they want to talk about let's go you

[0:47:02] Voice 5: know it's good this is going to be a long involved conversation good

[0:47:05] Trustee McConchie: point yeah okay let's do we need

[0:47:08] Trustee McConchie: a motion to invite the apc sorry shan uh

[0:47:11] Voice 5: why don't you meet with them first because you were doing

[0:47:13] Voice 5: that anyway yeah you're attending and then find out what find out if they want to do that and

[0:47:17] Voice 5: then start you can start coordinating it and in terms of

[0:47:21] Voice 5: the direction we've already got the 90

[0:47:22] Voice 5: square meters in the draft or got direction to do that in the draft um and um so we'll just carry on

[0:47:30] Voice 5: with that okay um

[0:47:33] Trustee Morrison: yeah i think the one other thing i would name is um for being able to coordinate

[0:47:39] Trustee Morrison: in the timeline can you give us an idea for the timeline for the draft in december like what is

[0:47:45] Trustee Morrison: the timeline for being able to include feedback from the apc into whatever is needed just because

[0:47:53] Trustee Morrison: Because like there's, I actually have a day job and like the work and travel that I'm like struggling with this fall, I just need to make sure that I really want to hear the AAPC, like comments and things and when do we need to get feedback into your process to do that.

[0:48:07] Voice 5: So the hope is that after today's meeting, this will be the final direction, not that it won't change, but there's enough direction to finalize the first draft.

[0:48:17] Voice 5: um and then uh meet in december to have a look at that first draft okay and um if trustee mcconkey

[0:48:27] Voice 5: attends an aapc meeting or meets informally with some members of the aapc and get some feedback

[0:48:32] Voice 5: he can bring it to that meeting great

[0:48:34] Trustee Morrison: and you can decide as an ltc at that

[0:48:35] Voice 5: meeting if you need more

[0:48:37] Voice 5: meetings formal meetings or if you've got enough feedback at this point yeah

[0:48:41] Trustee Morrison: that'd be great and

[0:48:42] Trustee Morrison: And Tessa McConkie, please pass on my thoughts to them.

[0:48:46] Trustee Morrison: And I'm happy to touch base with any of them after that on November 15th when I'm back.

[0:48:50] Trustee Morrison: Sounds good.

[0:48:51] Trustee McConchie: We've got a really great group of folks, volunteers, that are doing an outstanding job of this comprehensive analysis of agriculture.

[0:49:01] Trustee Patrick: Okay.

[0:49:02] Trustee Patrick: So anything else on agriculture?

[0:49:06] Trustee Patrick: And then we'll move on to the next is commercial tourism accommodations.

[0:49:08] Trustee Patrick: The

[0:49:09] Voice 5: thorny C2 topic.

[0:49:10] Voice 5: There's kind of two locations to be considered.

[0:49:13] Voice 5: the first of the mckinnon road properties um you've now got i think feedback from all of the

[0:49:19] Voice 5: four property owners um to the question about down zoning them um the second is the the one

[0:49:28] Voice 5: behind the c2 zone behind the driftwood probably best to focus on the mckinnon road one first

[0:49:33] Voice 5: um it's a critical groundwater area in the draft mapping um and anecdotally it's it's known to have

[0:49:41] Voice 5: to have water issues there's a quite a bit of density in that location page seven of the agenda

[0:49:47] Voice 5: has the the current permitted use um number of accommodation units that could be constructed

[0:49:53] Voice 5: there um the intentions of the current owners is highlighted in the column there um and what's and

[0:50:02] Voice 5: what's been constructed or what is proposed to be constructed currently um along with the you know

[0:50:08] Voice 5: the addresses for each of the properties um so the question for the local trust committee is

[0:50:14] Voice 5: change the zoning reduce the development potential or not leave it as is and the one option that's

[0:50:20] Voice 5: kind of presented is if the local trust committee does want to reduce the number of permitted units

[0:50:28] Voice 5: units there. Potentially, there could also be a policy in the OCP that would quite specifically

[0:50:38] Voice 5: identify that this density can be increased through a rezoning application if certain

[0:50:45] Voice 5: measures are put in place. This is speaking to water.

[0:50:49] Trustee Morrison: Yeah. So that's kind of the last point

[0:50:52] Trustee Morrison: is the route that I would like to take with this. And I know it's not going to be popular

[0:50:56] Trustee Morrison: among the um folks in the space but to reduce density in that area now and require that

[0:51:04] Trustee Morrison: rezoning will or name that rezoning density can be increased with like alternatives to groundwater

[0:51:11] Trustee Morrison: um because that's the issue that we're hitting and we're hitting it in other places and it's

[0:51:17] Trustee Morrison: literally just a reality check and right now if we don't change the density um in this area and

[0:51:24] Trustee Morrison: And again, I totally understand it's going to cause stress and tension for those folks

[0:51:29] Trustee Morrison: who have those properties, but it's already causing stress for their surrounding neighbors.

[0:51:34] Trustee Morrison: And I think we have to think about the bigger community in the region, not only those owners.

[0:51:39] Trustee Morrison: So we have to have guarantees like in the permitting process that they are going to

[0:51:46] Trustee Morrison: go off of non-groundwater sources, I think, or pump in the winter.

[0:51:50] Trustee Morrison: like when we have you know winter pumping into holding like that would be another alternative

[0:51:55] Trustee Morrison: because given the the preliminary conversation we've had with william shulba we have lots of

[0:52:00] Trustee Morrison: water and groundwater in the winter but we we need to get it pumped up and stored so we need to have

[0:52:05] Trustee Morrison: storage and we need to have like some kind of measurement on pumps so we know there's not

[0:52:10] Trustee Morrison: summer pumping going on yep

[0:52:12] Voice 5: so essentially through a rezoning process that could be required to have

[0:52:15] Voice 5: have a water management plan and the covenants to require certain measures be taken and really

[0:52:22] Voice 5: a rezoning is the is the is the only mechanism that can that can require that and i understand

[0:52:28] Trustee Morrison: the cost related to that but i also just think we have to think of the bigger community related

[0:52:34] Trustee Morrison: issue i

[0:52:36] Trustee Patrick: have an interesting i'm just it's a general question we have commercial accommodation

[0:52:41] Trustee Patrick: consolidation unit. It's a unit of density. Is it just all units are created equal? Or is there

[0:52:50] Trustee Patrick: a way of saying a commercial unit is this big, it has a different, you know, instead of this,

[0:52:57] Trustee Patrick: that, I was just curious if there's any way of like restricting, what does that mean? What does

[0:53:01] Trustee Patrick: it, how does it count? Like

[0:53:02] Voice 6: in terms of

[0:53:02] Trustee Patrick: floor area? Could be floor area or water usage, or,

[0:53:06] Trustee Patrick: you know there must be other metrics that could define a unit of commercial accommodation because

[0:53:14] Voice 5: yeah currently it's defined by floor area um and that's traditionally has been for quite some time

[0:53:20] Voice 5: in the land use bylaws um and the ocp supports a more flexible approach on a case-by-case basis

[0:53:30] Voice 5: to some of these commercial properties where you can have fewer units but they could be larger

[0:53:34] Voice 5: and that's what the zoning amendment last term at Port Browning did reduce the number of units

[0:53:42] Voice 5: but allow larger floor area so that could it's it's an imprecise mechanism though right it's

[0:53:49] Voice 5: like yeah you have a larger floor area for your unit is that going to be the same number of people

[0:53:53] Voice 5: as you know it's one large unit going to have the same water usage as two small units or is it going

[0:53:59] Voice 5: to be less it's hard to say okay

[0:54:04] Trustee McConchie: i i have a whole bunch of thoughts on this can i just go and riff

[0:54:08] Trustee McConchie: now chair patrick please please

[0:54:10] Trustee Patrick: do okay

[0:54:11] Trustee McConchie: so um thanks for what you guys said earlier made me

[0:54:14] Trustee McConchie: really think i just opened up the official community plan for north pender um this is a

[0:54:19] Trustee McConchie: bit of a schmozzle because uh the folks that bought this land and i believe they have also

[0:54:25] Trustee McConchie: had an accepted offer on the neighboring property now. They bought this without being informed by

[0:54:32] Trustee McConchie: the real estate agent that this particular land was being subject to review by the Islands Trust

[0:54:38] Trustee McConchie: Land Use By-law Review. This is a year and a half before they bought the property. So now,

[0:54:43] Trustee McConchie: these folks are in a tough position because they've financially put themselves on the line

[0:54:47] Trustee McConchie: in thinking that they kept their zoning. I mentioned that narrative because there's people

[0:54:55] Trustee McConchie: people here that are going to be impacted by whatever decision we end up making and it's

[0:54:58] Trustee McConchie: important to recognize it's probably very stressful for them and it's probably upsetting

[0:55:02] Trustee McConchie: and it's very disappointing that they were not properly informed and that folks are seem to not

[0:55:09] Trustee McConchie: either want to pay attention to what we're dealing with on the island's trust or

[0:55:14] Trustee McConchie: it's just professional lack of whatever the word is lack of professionalism in that particular

[0:55:20] Trustee McConchie: circumstance very disappointing um now the official community plan it's really clear about

[0:55:27] Trustee McConchie: commercial development to me uh it like this is on page uh i don't know what are we at 39

[0:55:33] Trustee McConchie: commercial objectives in the official official community plan uh to ensure that community

[0:55:40] Trustee McConchie: development does not adversely affect rural character and lifestyle that's a very clear

[0:55:46] Trustee McConchie: objective objective to protect the character and integrity of quiet residential and rural

[0:55:52] Trustee McConchie: neighborhoods right now i uh so it's clear clearly that when we're making a decision as trustees we

[0:56:00] Trustee McConchie: have to say well just a second here you know are we affecting the rural quality of life

[0:56:05] Trustee McConchie: right now it's zoned for a lot of units on that piece of land um it's also says in the staff

[0:56:13] Trustee McConchie: report uh that uh kim's written with robert that uh william shulbaugh is going to have a bunch of

[0:56:20] Trustee McConchie: really important information coming out he's our groundwater specialist in order for us to have the

[0:56:25] Trustee McConchie: justification to really change make any changes to the zoning because we've been talking about

[0:56:30] Trustee McConchie: resources it's incredibly important to have that information otherwise what are we doing right

[0:56:37] Trustee McConchie: this scientific data will help us tremendously make a decision so and i'm almost done here

[0:56:44] Trustee McConchie: chair pentrick so one thing i thought about uh was what about putting a dpa on this particular

[0:56:53] Trustee McConchie: zone on this land uh so we can work with the property owners uh to to make them uh you know

[0:57:03] Trustee McConchie: know come to the table with the trustees to ensure uh you know that there is a there is a really

[0:57:09] Trustee McConchie: clear uh regulatory agency working with them to add to properly uh help them with this particular

[0:57:17] Trustee McConchie: development that they're proposing because speaking to them they're very interested in

[0:57:22] Trustee McConchie: protecting the environment they're very interested in like rainwater catchment like they want to have

[0:57:28] Trustee McConchie: a hip eco resort is is the idea if we put it what robert i guess the question is could we put a dpa

[0:57:36] Trustee McConchie: on that zone to you know talk about form and character address these concerns so

[0:57:42] Voice 5: it is a dpa

[0:57:43] Voice 5: for form and character that's not going to address the groundwater concerns like that's a it's a

[0:57:47] Voice 5: groundwater servicing concern suppose we could come up with a dpa to protect groundwater it's a

[0:57:53] Voice 5: a little bit of a getting you know pushing the boundaries a bit um but you know you guys have

[0:57:59] Voice 5: dealt with a lot of dpas over the last dp applications over the last three years um

[0:58:04] Voice 5: you don't have the full discretion right that you do with the rezoning application um so that is an

[0:58:11] Voice 5: option um but it would allow the existing development to occur with conditions and what

[0:58:17] Voice 5: those conditions could be you know maybe it would address the groundwater potentially

[0:58:21] Voice 5: potentially. I guess another option is if these one of these landowners, because there's four

[0:58:28] Voice 5: owners, right? And are four different properties. If they wanted, if they were willing, they could

[0:58:38] Voice 5: voluntarily grant a section 219 covenant to the local trust committee that say we won't develop

[0:58:43] Voice 5: this additional density until such time as, you know, we can get quite specific.

[0:58:52] Voice 5: you know a mat water management plan with rainwater catchment systems for all the new

[0:58:57] Voice 5: developments something like that something that's like satisfactory to the local trust committee and

[0:59:00] Voice 5: and to and you know reviewed by william is

[0:59:05] Trustee McConchie: so um just so i'm clear if a covenant so let's say they

[0:59:10] Trustee McConchie: sell that they build the resort it's whatever it's a beautiful resort and it's eco-friendly

[0:59:15] Trustee McConchie: and then they sell it to a developed to a different company can that covenant be overturned

[0:59:20] Trustee McConchie: or change the covenant

[0:59:22] Voice 5: travels with title so it's the term is

[0:59:24] Voice 5: yeah the next it's binding on

[0:59:26] Voice 5: all future owners

[0:59:27] Trustee McConchie: well it's not a permanent environmental solution if they decide to sell

[0:59:30] Trustee McConchie: the resort eventually and then you know a developer comes in and wants to you know it just

[0:59:36] Trustee McConchie: it can say forget it like whatever they can make changes to the resort after no

[0:59:40] Trustee Patrick: it is binding it

[0:59:41] Trustee Patrick: is binding

[0:59:41] Trustee Patrick: on future owners

[0:59:44] Voice 5: oh

[0:59:45] Trustee McConchie: i thought you said it went with the title or goes with the title

[0:59:49] Voice 5: the term

[0:59:50] Voice 5: is travels it's friday right i understand now

[0:59:52] Voice 5: because the title changes the okay yeah that's

[0:59:54] Voice 5: right fine yeah yeah so that's

[0:59:56] Voice 5: an option i mean that's an

[0:59:57] Voice 5: interesting option yeah yeah because

[1:00:00] Voice 5: essentially you know they're faced with the potential for losing through this process

[1:00:06] Voice 5: this land use bylaw process of losing some of that development potential if they and and their

[1:00:13] Voice 5: indication is um that they you know want to do rainwater catchment want to do all these other

[1:00:19] Voice 5: measures um um the mechanism to ensure that it happens and makes the local trust committee

[1:00:26] Voice 5: comfortable a covenant is a good mechanism and they can voluntarily grant that to the local

[1:00:30] Voice 5: trust committee now that would deal with maybe one of the lots or maybe two of them if they're

[1:00:36] Voice 5: buying a second one

[1:00:37] Trustee McConchie: okay so this is a tricky one because like we have a lot of resorts on this

[1:00:44] Trustee McConchie: island i mean let's face it we have poet's cove we have browning potentially to develop we have

[1:00:50] Trustee McConchie: the otter bay currents we have the woods we have short-term vacation rentals ferries are getting

[1:00:57] Trustee McConchie: getting very full right like it's so the local the question before the local trust committee is

[1:01:04] Trustee McConchie: i i understand is that how do i understand it is do we um down zone this out of concerns over

[1:01:12] Trustee McConchie: density to the island over too many commercial properties uh and financially uh really

[1:01:20] Trustee McConchie: really negatively impact people um or do we work with them uh to ensure that they're building

[1:01:26] Trustee McConchie: an appropriate uh appropriately uh sized and appropriately managed and well environmentally

[1:01:34] Trustee McConchie: built um vacations rental spot uh you know so i'm curious to know what my other i'm framing

[1:01:43] Trustee McConchie: it in a particular way but that's kind of how i see this discussion yeah

[1:01:47] Trustee Morrison: there's one other aspect

[1:01:48] Trustee Morrison: So there's two concerns that I have here.

[1:01:51] Trustee Morrison: The primary one is the water.

[1:01:52] Trustee Morrison: And I actually think that's a really interesting idea about how to handle the water, because

[1:01:58] Trustee Morrison: it does, it pushes back in a very legal and binding way.

[1:02:02] Trustee Morrison: If you say this, then this is actually what you have to do now, if you want to develop

[1:02:06] Trustee Morrison: it.

[1:02:06] Trustee Morrison: So that does actually resolve, I think, the water issue, if people will go ahead and do

[1:02:11] Trustee Morrison: that.

[1:02:13] Trustee Morrison: And frankly, from an environmental point of view and our responsibilities on that level,

[1:02:17] Trustee Morrison: if they don't then we really have to downs on them because i i think from that perspective

[1:02:24] Trustee Morrison: so that's that's one thing the other issue that i've heard clearly expressed from that neighborhood

[1:02:31] Trustee Morrison: is the concern about traffic and that's kind of getting to the second piece that you're talking

[1:02:35] Trustee Morrison: about ben is like that you know the rural character of that region is being compromised by

[1:02:42] Trustee Morrison: you know whatever it is to 30 40 50 plus before i think it worked out to 54 units in the area

[1:02:51] Trustee Morrison: right like that's a what a dead-end street you know in a rural area right off the ferry and 54

[1:03:00] Trustee Morrison: you know and additional units it works out to like a lot because i think there's only about 10 or 12

[1:03:08] Trustee Morrison: like existing units. So it's like 50 additional, or it's 40 additional units in the area. So it's

[1:03:16] Trustee Morrison: a big load of traffic to build out the whole area potentially. So I think if we were to covet it

[1:03:22] Trustee Morrison: that way, the other thing I would want to put on it is alternative transport, right? Cause that

[1:03:29] Trustee Morrison: would be one of the ways it's right next to the ferry. Like there's no reason people can be

[1:03:35] Trustee Morrison: be leaving their cars at home and coming in on the ferry and walking up into the area and that

[1:03:40] Trustee Morrison: would change the nature of vehicle traffic in the region um if if we did that or versus if we didn't

[1:03:47] Trustee Morrison: do it and left the density so robert can we do that kind of thing on the covenant too um

[1:03:54] Voice 5: it's

[1:03:55] Voice 5: trickier because it's off the property right the you know you can certainly restrict parking

[1:03:59] Voice 5: parking like say no parking but um yeah it's hard to it's hard to require people

[1:04:07] Trustee McConchie: well the

[1:04:08] Voice 5: covenant specific to the it's restricting land use on the property right

[1:04:11] Trustee McConchie: yeah and part of

[1:04:13] Trustee McConchie: the other thing was i mean if these folks are coming they you know they're not going to go

[1:04:17] Trustee McConchie: to joe's place or the true value or whatever if they don't have a car yeah we don't have public

[1:04:21] Trustee McConchie: transport that's the only other that's a concern and not a concern it's a it's a i mean it would

[1:04:26] Trustee McConchie: would be a

[1:04:26] Voice 5: reality a

[1:04:28] Trustee McConchie: reality yeah um i guess okay but what i'm hearing from uh trustee trustee

[1:04:33] Trustee McConchie: morrison maybe chair patrick correct me if i'm wrong there's no appetite because there's a

[1:04:37] Trustee McConchie: concern from the folks that own these lands there's no appetite to just down zone the property

[1:04:41] Trustee McConchie: right now to rural residential is that correct because that's kind of what we have to decide

[1:04:45] Trustee McConchie: from us

[1:04:46] Trustee McConchie: right right now that's like i'm

[1:04:50] Trustee Morrison: interested in down zoning okay

[1:04:52] Trustee McConchie: so um and

[1:04:55] Trustee McConchie: And maybe this is where we, I'm not sure, Robert, where we should go in the process, because I need more information before I, you know, just downzone something.

[1:05:09] Trustee McConchie: Is it possible to keep the zoning and then add this covenant?

[1:05:15] Trustee McConchie: Yeah,

[1:05:16] Voice 5: so if one or more of those four owners came forward and said, yeah, I'm willing.

[1:05:23] Voice 5: So one thing we could do is we could write to all four owners, right, and say the LTC is considering their options with regard to zoning on this property.

[1:05:32] Voice 5: One possibility that's been raised is the potential for the EU to voluntarily grant

[1:05:38] Voice 5: a restrictive covenant to the local trust committee that would put in measures to protect

[1:05:42] Voice 5: groundwater and potentially other restrictions. Are you interested in this approach? So at least

[1:05:49] Voice 5: we'd understand who and which of them are interested in that. Obviously it would take

[1:05:58] Voice 5: some time to get responses from them 50 some back and forth what's a covenant what does this mean

[1:06:06] Trustee McConchie: well i guess i guess it kind of comes down to like um i want to work with the property owners to um

[1:06:14] Trustee McConchie: to make sure that they there's some sort of binding thing that makes them responsible

[1:06:19] Trustee McConchie: for creating a uh an environmentally sensitive uh development or we have a debate and a vote

[1:06:27] Trustee McConchie: on determining whether to down zone it altogether

[1:06:30] Trustee McConchie: into rural residential.

[1:06:33] Trustee McConchie: So what do you want?

[1:06:34] Trustee McConchie: I mean, should we ask these?

[1:06:36] Trustee McConchie: Yeah.

[1:06:37] Voice 5: I just, I'm not sure that rural residential,

[1:06:38] Voice 5: it's certainly one of the options,

[1:06:40] Voice 5: but it was the option,

[1:06:41] Voice 5: I understood it was to reduce the number of units

[1:06:44] Voice 5: of guest accommodation units.

[1:06:46] Trustee McConchie: Okay, well,

[1:06:46] Trustee McConchie: okay.

[1:06:51] Trustee McConchie: Yeah,

[1:06:52] Trustee Morrison: so I see two paths forward here.

[1:06:55] Trustee Morrison: So one is, I think it's really worthwhile

[1:06:58] Trustee Morrison: while to have a conversation or to have that communication with the four landowners we're

[1:07:04] Trustee Morrison: talking about if they're willing to do a covenant to address the water um i do want to understand

[1:07:12] Trustee Morrison: from both laura and ben like where your stance is on the the rural character issue related to

[1:07:20] Trustee Morrison: the additional traffic that another 40 units in the area would would like where are you sitting

[1:07:24] Trustee Morrison: sitting on that how are you thinking about that

[1:07:28] Trustee Patrick: oh um i understand the impact and it can it can be

[1:07:37] Trustee Patrick: big but in some ways this this zoning has existed as well so it's not like you're now

[1:07:48] Trustee Patrick: up zoning and you're impacting an official a community this zoning has has existed it just

[1:07:54] Trustee Patrick: hasn't been taken up for whatever reason so at least neighbors are aware that it exists

[1:08:00] Trustee Patrick: exists i'm just trying to come from the perspective of the surprise now you have a resort next door

[1:08:05] Trustee Patrick: um but i'd like

[1:08:07] Trustee Patrick: to also i think i like the covenant conversation i think we could expand

[1:08:10] Trustee Patrick: it not just to have water but to see what's possible through that covenant approach to

[1:08:17] Trustee Patrick: because i think i think what we're looking for is really resourceful use of this uh that fits

[1:08:24] Trustee Patrick: fits the character is, I think that is what we want at the end of the day and, um, to see how

[1:08:30] Trustee Patrick: we can get there.

[1:08:32] Trustee McConchie: Well, Chair Patrick, I'm curious to know your experiences with the,

[1:08:35] Trustee McConchie: if you wanted to talk about on Salt Spring, I mean, I know you had a very, um, uh, consequential

[1:08:40] Trustee McConchie: discussion about Fulford. Um, I'm wondering if, if there's any similarities from that experience

[1:08:46] Trustee McConchie: that we can take away into this experience.

[1:08:49] Trustee Patrick: Um, that's a resort that, uh, or a property that was

[1:08:53] Trustee Patrick: was already zoned. So again, the unit count existed. I probably have had more experience

[1:09:04] Trustee Patrick: with home-based businesses that have grown wildly successful. And you probably have some of those

[1:09:09] Trustee Patrick: as well, where you had a quiet neighborhood where now you have a wildly successful home-based

[1:09:17] Trustee Patrick: business on the street that has a lot of traffic. And that's surprising to the neighbors. And we get

[1:09:22] Trustee Patrick: had a lot of pushback and quiet because now the neighbor will come along now they want to come

[1:09:26] Trustee Patrick: along and rezone but there's this bad tension in the neighborhood um and you think of you know you

[1:09:32] Trustee Patrick: had a quiet neighborhood now your neighbor has a successful business basically running next door

[1:09:37] Trustee Patrick: and that causes a lot of concern yeah okay so

[1:09:42] Trustee Patrick: i've had more of that than i have you know the

[1:09:44] Trustee Patrick: accommodation units i think we almost everything i'm aware of on salt spring has all been old you

[1:09:50] Trustee Patrick: know old zoning from the 80s or earlier um that we've

[1:09:56] Trustee Patrick: been dealing with probably like like just

[1:09:58] Trustee Patrick: like this well

[1:09:59] Trustee McConchie: that's right it's very similar is what i'm noting uh okay well it also says here

[1:10:05] Trustee McConchie: it discussed their limited opportunity groundwater data staff can report back uh yeah just so page

[1:10:11] Trustee McConchie: five here at the time of writing this report groundwater vulnerability maps were not available

[1:10:16] Trustee McConchie: Although, as indicated during the groundwater presentation in September, concerns for groundwater availability, and more specifically in areas where usage exceeds available groundwater, should be in the forefront of land use planning decisions.

[1:10:28] Trustee McConchie: The LTC has an option to defer decisions on the C2 zoning until mapping becomes available later this month.

[1:10:36] Trustee McConchie: I'm just wondering if that's, I mean, that's really clear. Should we reach out to the owners, discuss whether or not they want to investigate this covenant idea, as well as wait and hear back at the November 25th LTC meeting regarding the mapping? It seems, what do you think? I don't know.

[1:11:00] Trustee McConchie: i

[1:11:00] Trustee Patrick: think proceeding with the questions about this covenant to get things moving would make sense to

[1:11:04] Trustee Patrick: me um because even with the groundwater mapping if you were to go the other way and you take a

[1:11:11] Trustee Patrick: rezoning approach then they're going to have to do water studies and all of this stuff so it's

[1:11:15] Trustee Patrick: there's paths that would be taken either way so i think getting the covenant study

[1:11:19] Trustee Patrick: the covenant conversation going makes sense to me okay yeah

[1:11:23] Trustee Patrick: i'd like the

[1:11:23] Voice 5: mapping it's critical

[1:11:24] Voice 5: it's a critical groundwater area you saw it in william's presentation william was on vacations

[1:11:28] Voice 5: we're trying to get the you know the underlying data and stuff presented you know those pie graphs

[1:11:32] Voice 5: and those bar charts and stuff for this for this particular groundwater region yeah

[1:11:37] Trustee Morrison: that would be

[1:11:38] Trustee Morrison: really helpful so yeah i agree it'd be helpful to have that there is one of the properties um

[1:11:44] Trustee Morrison: the property owner have stated they have no objection with reducing the permitted um units

[1:11:50] Trustee Morrison: from nine to three it seems to me like we should go for that with that property because it is there

[1:11:56] Trustee Morrison: there is a density of like traffic in the area.

[1:11:59] Trustee Morrison: So I would like appreciate that one to come down.

[1:12:03] Trustee Morrison: And then the other three, I think we should contact.

[1:12:07] Trustee Morrison: So I don't think we need to contact the top four.

[1:12:09] Trustee Morrison: I think we need to contact the three that do want to keep their density or

[1:12:12] Trustee Morrison: the one that's for sale included in that and have the conversation with

[1:12:17] Trustee Morrison: covenants about them and get them to,

[1:12:19] Trustee Morrison: I I'm happy for them to have our phone numbers and reach out and talk to us

[1:12:23] Trustee Morrison: about that. We have been in conversation,

[1:12:25] Trustee Morrison: i think with most of these folks um so it'd be great to to do that i'm happy if you want to

[1:12:31] Trustee Morrison: provide our information and they can talk to you but it would be good robert if you can um like

[1:12:36] Trustee Morrison: also provide us or and them both with i would like to see it too like what that covenant kind

[1:12:43] Trustee Morrison: of information might look like okay

[1:12:46] Voice 5: do

[1:12:47] Trustee Patrick: we need a motion for that um

[1:12:50] Voice 5: yeah probably a motion to

[1:12:52] Voice 5: contact the the three owners um to ex initiate conversations about a second 219 government

[1:13:01] Voice 5: did you get that channel

[1:13:02] Trustee McConchie: it's essentially two owners i from what i understand because you're

[1:13:06] Trustee McConchie: selling the one property and the property owners that have just bought this that are concerned

[1:13:09] Trustee McConchie: about down zoning are buying that lot right beside it so we only need to really contact two of them

[1:13:14] Trustee McConchie: okay okay

[1:13:15] Trustee Morrison: so

[1:13:16] Trustee McConchie: i'd like to make a motion that the staff contact uh the owners of

[1:13:25] Trustee McConchie: uh one three uh one three two nine mckinnon road and one three four nine mckinnon road

[1:13:30] Trustee McConchie: uh to just to uh discuss options of investigating uh potential covenants on

[1:13:37] Trustee McConchie: these lands i know

[1:13:39] Trustee Patrick: shannon will get some of the key wording there shannon when you're ready

[1:13:42] Trustee Patrick: if you want to read that back before we second okay

[1:14:03] Voice 2: so that the north pender island local trust

[1:14:05] Voice 2: committee requests staff to contact the property owners of 1329 mckinnon road and 1349 mckinnon

[1:14:11] Voice 2: road to discuss the option of entering into a 219 covenant is that is

[1:14:19] Trustee Patrick: that good enough robert

[1:14:21] Trustee Patrick: yes

[1:14:21] Voice 5: that's excellent

[1:14:22] Trustee Patrick: thank you is there a second to that motion you made the motion you can't second

[1:14:27] Trustee Patrick: in it

[1:14:27] Trustee McConchie: right away good

[1:14:30] Trustee Patrick: try is there a second to do uh sorry you need to raise your hand sorry oh i

[1:14:35] Trustee Patrick: had my thing right in front of your hand okay uh is there any discussion no

[1:14:39] Trustee Morrison: i just i i think this

[1:14:41] Trustee Morrison: is an interesting method potentially and i would like to hear from other people in mckinnon road

[1:14:46] Trustee Morrison: if they think that the water issue is the dominant issue versus the traffic like it would be good to

[1:14:51] Trustee Morrison: to get some feedback on the two concerns, thank you.

[1:14:55] Trustee Morrison: All

[1:14:56] Trustee Patrick: right, any further discussion?

[1:14:57] Trustee McConchie: I just have further comment that it's any real estate folks

[1:15:02] Trustee McConchie: listening, please, please take the time to inform people

[1:15:06] Trustee McConchie: about what's taking place on any potential property

[1:15:09] Trustee McConchie: with regards to its local government.

[1:15:13] Trustee Patrick: Any further discussion, I'll call the vote.

[1:15:15] Trustee Patrick: All those in favor, and that's carried.

[1:15:19] Trustee Patrick: Is there anything else needed on the commercial?

[1:15:21] Trustee Patrick: commercial yeah

[1:15:22] Trustee McConchie: it's the second one the driftwood sorry yeah i i got a thought on this one this is

[1:15:27] Trustee McConchie: uh the land behind the driftwood so um a lot i don't think a lot of islanders realize like that's

[1:15:35] Trustee McConchie: a big chunk of land there that is undeveloped um and uh particularly land to the left uh we're

[1:15:44] Trustee McConchie: going to be discussing that next week uh and the land behind the driftwood center it's permitted

[1:15:50] Trustee McConchie: for 27 units, is how I understand things.

[1:15:54] Trustee McConchie: I'm wondering if we can zone it to subsidized housing.

[1:15:58] Trustee McConchie: Can a local trust committee zone, rezone something,

[1:16:02] Trustee McConchie: I guess is my question, to make the zoning,

[1:16:06] Trustee McConchie: if there is to be a development,

[1:16:10] Trustee McConchie: only subsidized or affordable housing units?

[1:16:13] Voice 5: You could rezone it for rental housing.

[1:16:15] Voice 5: That's the new power the last couple of years,

[1:16:18] Voice 5: the local governments have.

[1:16:18] Voice 5: So you could rezone it for 27 residential units.

[1:16:22] Voice 5: So in other words, not short-term and for rent.

[1:16:28] Voice 6: You

[1:16:29] Voice 5: went through a housing,

[1:16:29] Voice 5: the mechanism of a housing agreement,

[1:16:31] Voice 5: you can restrict that rent or you can restrict the tenure,

[1:16:35] Voice 5: or you can restrict what's called the class of persons

[1:16:37] Voice 5: who can occupy it, but that's an agreement.

[1:16:41] Voice 5: It's an housing agreement between an owner

[1:16:43] Voice 5: and a local government.

[1:16:45] Voice 5: so typically it's a sort of part of the rezoning process yeah

[1:16:51] Trustee McConchie: i mean that's what i'd like to do

[1:16:54] Trustee McConchie: as trustee on the north pender committee can

[1:17:01] Trustee Morrison: you talk a little bit more about why you want to do

[1:17:03] Trustee Morrison: that that

[1:17:04] Trustee McConchie: particular area has been subject to a lot of community dialogue in the past

[1:17:10] Trustee McConchie: uh it was subject to uh i believe they were applied there was a development proposal

[1:17:15] Trustee McConchie: proposal Robert maybe you can tell me the history yep

[1:17:19] Voice 5: so it included that property and

[1:17:22] Voice 5: the rural property the 10 acre rural property behind for not varied over the course the life

[1:17:31] Voice 5: of the rezoning application but it was for small cottage style residential accommodation

[1:17:39] Voice 5: um and uh the rezoning ultimately did not proceed yeah

[1:17:46] Trustee McConchie: it didn't proceed uh there were lots of

[1:17:48] Trustee McConchie: there was a lot of community uproar if i recall including the resignation of one of the trustees

[1:17:53] Trustee McConchie: due to death threats but that's for a book at some point in the future um so uh one of the reasons

[1:18:02] Trustee McConchie: uh we need we have very little rental stock on the on the island we have a desperate need for

[1:18:09] Trustee McConchie: for families to, for somewhere to live. As anecdotally, in my profession as an educator,

[1:18:16] Trustee McConchie: I am familiar with some educators on this island. We're talking about people that are full-time

[1:18:20] Trustee McConchie: educators that can't find or afford a place to rent or live. And they're good people working

[1:18:27] Trustee McConchie: in our community. And I know this is a tune that's been played many times in many different islands,

[1:18:34] Trustee McConchie: But the property owners have had lots of opportunity to develop it. This might be beneficial to the property owners. There's a lot of businesses there. It's a potential income earning with consistent rental. It could be a great little vibrant village.

[1:18:56] Trustee McConchie: um you know you'd have a lot of life down there at the driftwood as a result

[1:19:02] Trustee McConchie: uh the property owners would maintain the ownership of it it would show the drift the

[1:19:06] Trustee McConchie: local trust committee is making efforts to address the affordable housing issue uh because to me i

[1:19:13] Trustee McConchie: mean how many because the question comes down to how many resorts does this island need you know

[1:19:18] Trustee McConchie: Like we've got a lot of resorts here and a lot of potentially zoned units.

[1:19:26] Trustee McConchie: So this might be an option for the community to get engaged and get excited about a project.

[1:19:32] Trustee McConchie: And perhaps Hartle Management would take the lead because it's beneficial to them.

[1:19:38] Trustee McConchie: There's some businesses there that, you know, need employees or need folks who would help their commercial enterprise.

[1:19:44] Trustee McConchie: rise uh i you know i thought maybe that this is something we could put out to the community and

[1:19:50] Trustee McConchie: to the property owners to consider from

[1:19:54] Trustee Morrison: that perspective i agree i think that would be better

[1:19:58] Trustee Morrison: served to be residential housing as opposed to commercial housing so i'm for that my biggest

[1:20:07] Trustee Morrison: concern with any increase in density in that region is the water issue again because it's a

[1:20:12] Trustee Morrison: a low-lying well um and so the question is um so I would love to actually you know rezone it for

[1:20:24] Trustee Morrison: residential use but then the question is like I still think it needs a water lake related covenant

[1:20:32] Trustee Morrison: to get people off the well water or to get well water in winter only but I assume that people

[1:20:37] Trustee Morrison: will start to just understand that and do that to some degree too but I do think that it would be

[1:20:42] Trustee Morrison: important in that area it's it's less important there than it has been in other areas because

[1:20:49] Trustee Morrison: the the areas surrounding are a little bit more spread out like the the farms and houses around

[1:20:55] Trustee Morrison: it are a little bit more spread out and it's in and again we'd have to wait for the water study

[1:21:00] Trustee Morrison: but my understanding is it's in a wetter area like a less fragile area but in terms of the

[1:21:07] Trustee Morrison: surround of water coming into it it's just that in the summer it dries out so i i don't know i

[1:21:15] Trustee Morrison: i'm a little bit i agree with you in terms of residential housing so i think that would be

[1:21:19] Trustee Morrison: good the question is 27 units or less and

[1:21:24] Voice 5: i assume you'd want it to the same maximum floor area like

[1:21:27] Voice 5: same total floor area or individual maximum floor area as if as

[1:21:32] Voice 5: if they are currently as they are

[1:21:34] Voice 5: currently permitted as guest accommodation units yeah

[1:21:39] Trustee Morrison: what is the accommodation unit floor area

[1:21:41] Trustee Morrison: about 600 square feet

[1:21:43] Voice 5: it's like a cottage okay

[1:21:47] Trustee McConchie: so uh i mean be curious to know what the driftwood

[1:21:52] Trustee McConchie: thought about that the hardell management to see if they have any interest in it um but uh as far

[1:22:00] Trustee McConchie: as water is concerned i mean we just need the the development would need a whole bunch of storage

[1:22:07] Trustee McConchie: tanks for rainwater catchment um it seems to be going in that trajectory i mean we had a

[1:22:13] Trustee McConchie: discussion with mla adam olson about you know making uh rainwater cashman potable water it's

[1:22:19] Trustee McConchie: it's a no-brainer to me we just need to store the water somewhere it's going to rain for the next

[1:22:24] Trustee McConchie: three months right so um i understand it well as a concern but you know we need to make a we need

[1:22:33] Trustee McConchie: to make a bold kind of we need to make bold actions with regards to this uh we do get constantly asked

[1:22:40] Trustee McConchie: to address this this is the only tool we have as trustees as far as i know other than advocacy

[1:22:45] Trustee McConchie: to really address the housing concerns here so i i know i might i'm probably kind of surprising

[1:22:52] Trustee McConchie: you guys with this particular thought so i'm not sure how you want to proceed but that's kind of

[1:22:56] Trustee McConchie: that would be something for definitely for me uh i i feel strongly about this it's

[1:23:02] Trustee Patrick: it's not a

[1:23:03] Trustee Patrick: surprise to me and actually that was one of the recommendations of our housing task force on

[1:23:06] Trustee Patrick: salt spring was to allow the use of the existing commercial accommodation units to allow for

[1:23:13] Trustee Patrick: residential use so that we could convert some yeah

[1:23:17] Trustee Morrison: like i'm i'm totally fine with that direction

[1:23:20] Trustee Morrison: because this these 27 units for um commercial use for you know tourism it seems too high for me

[1:23:32] Trustee Morrison: in the density and it doesn't this you know we do need residential use and that of any area that

[1:23:38] Trustee Morrison: seems like a really good place for that kind of density in terms of the mechanics of people moving

[1:23:44] Trustee Morrison: around right so village

[1:23:47] Trustee Patrick: concept yeah

[1:23:48] Trustee Morrison: i i hesitate with the village concept because the you know

[1:23:52] Trustee Morrison: there's already a certain density in the magic lake area and it seems like we should like you

[1:23:58] Trustee Morrison: know decide where it's going to be because we're going to end up with two villagey kind of places

[1:24:02] Trustee Morrison: potentially i don't know there's it's it's a little bit of a concern on how we plan across

[1:24:06] Trustee Morrison: the landscape but um i would be fine with going towards residential here it does make me wonder

[1:24:13] Trustee Morrison: in some ways why why not residential for the other areas and why residential for here

[1:24:22] Trustee Morrison: so i think that's going to be the question we'll get asked yeah

[1:24:26] Trustee McConchie: and that's a good question to ask

[1:24:29] Trustee McConchie: it would be i think what this would do is put things in the hands of property owners to take

[1:24:35] Trustee McConchie: some initiative you know to serve their community and they can they can happily propose it or saying

[1:24:41] Trustee McConchie: no they also the other thing is they can potentially just not develop it right you

[1:24:45] Trustee McConchie: just sit there even if we do this right like it's been doing that for 25 years or whatever

[1:24:51] Trustee McConchie: there's how i don't know how long the zoning longer 30 years right so uh yeah it's a good

[1:24:56] Trustee McConchie: question trustee morrison um i don't know i i would uh i what what step can we do to proceed

[1:25:03] Trustee McConchie: with with making this uh happen robert so

[1:25:07] Voice 5: a motion to amend to revise the zoning in the

[1:25:10] Voice 5: draft land use by law to change the zoning on the c2 um behind the driftwood center um from c2 to a

[1:25:20] Voice 5: new rental residential housing zone what's

[1:25:24] Trustee McConchie: that zoning called it's

[1:25:25] Voice 5: rental rentals and residential

[1:25:27] Voice 5: zoning that

[1:25:29] Trustee McConchie: exists not

[1:25:30] Voice 5: on north bender but the power to the power to

[1:25:33] Voice 5: where to require that new

[1:25:36] Voice 5: housing be rental new residential housing be rental housing exists yeah

[1:25:42] Trustee Morrison: that's great

[1:25:44] Trustee Morrison: so did you get that Shannon can you try it again Robert um

[1:25:50] Voice 5: that the draft no

[1:25:51] Voice 2: I did I did

[1:25:52] Voice 5: I got some of it

[1:25:54] Trustee McConchie: Shannon's a pro uh

[1:25:56] Voice 2: that the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee

[1:25:57] Voice 2: requests staff to amend the draft land use bylaw to change the zoning behind the driftwood from

[1:26:04] Voice 2: from behind the driftwood from c2 to rental residential do

[1:26:09] Trustee Morrison: we have a legal description or

[1:26:11] Trustee Morrison: is that going to be enough that's enough yeah okay and you

[1:26:14] Trustee Morrison: want to make that motion yeah before we

[1:26:16] Trustee Morrison: make that motion maybe just one other thought so the reason i can see for doing residential here

[1:26:22] Trustee Morrison: versus up in mckinnon road area um is that the proximity to the grocery store here makes it

[1:26:31] Trustee Morrison: really viable for seniors for like living and aging in place which is something also that to

[1:26:39] Trustee Morrison: be able to free up other housing stock on the island um that's a real issue so anyway that's

[1:26:47] Trustee Morrison: a thought so and then we just see what feedback we get on it so um and and again the 27 units

[1:26:56] Trustee Morrison: um i would like to well and i think by the timing of it we'll see what the water study starts to say

[1:27:03] Trustee Morrison: before we have to make a

[1:27:05] Voice 5: we'll consult with william specifically on this proposal as well

[1:27:09] Voice 5: that'd

[1:27:09] Trustee Morrison: be helpful okay

[1:27:10] Voice 5: and uh so same floor area as currently so not a not larger floor area um

[1:27:16] Voice 5: and rainwater catchment cisterns required for new construction it's

[1:27:23] Trustee McConchie: essentially like the car it

[1:27:25] Trustee McConchie: It would look like the currents, say the development goes through, look like the currents, but with water restrictions.

[1:27:32] Trustee McConchie: And that's right. Am I right? The same water

[1:27:34] Voice 5: cisterns for rentals, residential.

[1:27:39] Voice 5: They may have to be attached like duplex style at a minimum, maybe triplex. I'd have to investigate that.

[1:27:47] Voice 5: So

[1:27:47] Trustee McConchie: is that an appropriate size? Should we lower the amount of units and allow for larger houses?

[1:27:53] Trustee McConchie: yeah

[1:27:54] Trustee Morrison: i'm wondering if we go up to a thousand square feet um and but

[1:27:59] Voice 5: no aggregate change in

[1:28:00] Voice 5: the floor area no

[1:28:02] Trustee Morrison: so like drop the the number of units to be able to make yeah if that number

[1:28:08] Trustee Morrison: could be figured out i think that's right because if you're thinking like if it's individual people

[1:28:13] Trustee Morrison: of course then i can understand that you know maybe 600 i you know i lived with two kids and

[1:28:19] Trustee Morrison: and my partner in a 600 square foot loft or area down here but um once they got to be teenagers

[1:28:26] Trustee Morrison: it was a little bit hard to swallow you know so yeah yeah

[1:28:30] Trustee McConchie: we want families to be able to

[1:28:32] Trustee McConchie: does one

[1:28:37] Trustee Patrick: of you wish to make that motion i'll

[1:28:38] Trustee McConchie: make the motion all right

[1:28:41] Trustee Patrick: seconded by trustee morrison is there any further discussion call the vote all those in favor

[1:28:48] Trustee Patrick: and that's carried okay

[1:28:52] Trustee McConchie: that's uh that's it for the

[1:28:55] Voice 5: final issue is the in-stream

[1:28:57] Voice 5: dock applications and whether to zone uh those locations to permit the docks or not

[1:29:04] Voice 5: i

[1:29:06] Trustee McConchie: don't get what's going on like the province is working on this too right so

[1:29:12] Trustee McConchie: can you update robert on what's happening like uh

[1:29:16] Voice 5: other than the fact the province has put a

[1:29:18] Voice 5: moratorium yeah on uh doc 10 years for i think it was two years so it's a little less than two

[1:29:26] Voice 5: years now um with no indication of when that if they would lift that moratorium if it truly is

[1:29:32] Voice 5: just a pause or if this or they're reevaluating 10 years for new docs generally in the area and

[1:29:39] Voice 5: it extends from the southern gulf islands like uh um just off of schwartz bay all the way north to

[1:29:47] Voice 5: gabriel i think so

[1:29:50] Trustee McConchie: what relevance does the island's trust have if the province is already

[1:29:55] Trustee McConchie: overruling it in a way by so

[1:29:57] Voice 5: okay so think of the province as the land

[1:30:00] Voice 5: lord right they're the ones giving the giving the lease it's not a lease but that's think of it that

[1:30:05] Voice 5: way um and the local trust committee is the one allowing the use or not so uh if you allowed

[1:30:15] Voice 5: um it's called in-stream applications um if you allowed the zoning for those and the 10 years are

[1:30:22] Voice 5: already delineated like the 10-year locations are delineated so you have those little zones

[1:30:27] Voice 5: water zones fingers coming out if you allowed that use if the province that in two years decided

[1:30:36] Voice 5: well we've done a study and we're not allowing any more docks then the zoning is irrelevant

[1:30:41] Voice 5: right it's it allows it but they'll never get tenure um on the other hand if uh the more time

[1:30:49] Voice 5: is lifted then if the zoning is in place those owners or those that are still interested could

[1:30:56] Voice 5: carry on with their doc. If you don't put the zoning in place for the in-stream applications

[1:31:04] Voice 5: and the province at the end of the period or at some point says we're not going to issue

[1:31:10] Voice 5: any more 10 years then you know no more 10 years. If they lift the moratorium and those in-stream

[1:31:17] Voice 5: applications would have to apply for rezoning. So the LTC of the day could be faced with up to 11

[1:31:23] Voice 5: and rezoning applications for docs all

[1:31:28] Trustee Morrison: right i have a bunch of questions about that

[1:31:33] Trustee Morrison: okay so i'm on page um page eight i'm at the top of page eight and the the points that are like

[1:31:46] Trustee Morrison: number one and two i read this like four times and i'm just struggling for some reason to understand

[1:31:52] Trustee Morrison: these two points so zone to permit poor shore would retain water one zoning that permits private

[1:31:59] Trustee Morrison: docks the in-stream applications to allow a private dock i have no idea what that means

[1:32:03] Trustee Morrison: can

[1:32:04] Voice 5: you so that's that's the option where those for those 11 locations where the the owners of

[1:32:10] Voice 5: red upland owners have submitted their applications those uh 10-year boundaries would be zoned to

[1:32:16] Voice 5: to allow a dock so if the moratorium is lifted they could disproceed with their dock option two

[1:32:22] Voice 5: is okay amended so docks aren't permitted and there's the policy in the ocp that says if you

[1:32:28] Voice 5: want to dock you got to apply for rezoning okay

[1:32:31] Trustee Morrison: so my concern with option one is that

[1:32:36] Trustee Morrison: if we do that and the province says no docks then we have a bunch of fingers that are permitted

[1:32:44] Trustee Morrison: and then there might be this thing well but like the ltc said we could have it and then because

[1:32:49] Trustee Morrison: we're not there anymore because we're all like moved on and retired or something i don't know

[1:32:53] Trustee Morrison: like then then it's confusing for the trustees at the moment like should they try and go around it

[1:32:59] Trustee Morrison: can they go around it is the province like that's it the province is the last word there's no way

[1:33:04] Trustee Morrison: around it yeah they don't

[1:33:05] Voice 5: issue tenure it's not yeah it's the water it's not if you don't have

[1:33:10] Trustee Morrison: have

[1:33:10] Voice 5: tenure you can't build a dock i mean you can try i

[1:33:13] Voice 5: guess but no but

[1:33:14] Trustee Morrison: that's squatting you're

[1:33:15] Voice 5: basically squatting yeah

[1:33:16] Trustee Morrison: okay that's helpful to know so then the opposite is also a little bit

[1:33:22] Trustee Morrison: true and and i don't know where we've done our proper sort of consultation but one of the biggest

[1:33:28] Trustee Morrison: concerns about docks is that they dig up or disrupt in some way the foreshore area where there is

[1:33:39] Trustee Morrison: potentially First Nations or they interrupt the flow of the foreshore area in ways that may

[1:33:47] Trustee Morrison: inhibit some of First Nations rights issues. And so that to me is something like, I don't know

[1:33:53] Trustee Morrison: who's waited on this. And so that would be some, that would be a place of concern for me

[1:33:58] Trustee Morrison: in going ahead in this moment and saying, yes, I kind of feel like that's a punt the ball down

[1:34:05] Trustee Morrison: the road and figure out the get all the things so i would go for option two from that perspective

[1:34:11] Trustee Patrick: my understanding of the reason for the moratorium is that um the province is in consultation with

[1:34:18] Trustee Patrick: first nations to understand that cumulative impact of docs and so forth and there may be a whole new

[1:34:24] Trustee Patrick: process coming out of this block of time

[1:34:28] Trustee Morrison: and then from my perspective then we just don't know enough

[1:34:33] Trustee Morrison: to be able to zone something so the the precautionary principle says we don't zone it

[1:34:37] Trustee Morrison: well

[1:34:44] Trustee Patrick: they well the province would trump basically if just because we zoned it they may not be able

[1:34:51] Trustee Patrick: to build it if they don't meet the new provincial requirements yes

[1:34:56] Trustee Morrison: but i haven't been very convinced

[1:34:57] Trustee Morrison: on their consultation on james island either i

[1:35:01] Trustee Patrick: i i hear you yes and

[1:35:03] Trustee Morrison: we need to do our due

[1:35:04] Trustee Morrison: due diligence and ensure that we have a say in those things and so from that perspective

[1:35:09] Trustee Morrison: I actually think we should be a little cautious if we are truly in reconciliation kind of land here

[1:35:19] Trustee McConchie: yeah like for me the the issue is like because I remember my parents they wanted to put it in a dock

[1:35:25] Trustee McConchie: right and one of the concerns was the amount of maintenance and you know it was going to get

[1:35:30] Trustee McConchie: slammed by a southeaster wind and you'd have to fix it and it just became like not worth it I mean

[1:35:36] Trustee McConchie: docks are sweet like i've used lots of docks in my life because you just go down on your property

[1:35:39] Trustee McConchie: you get in your boat and you tie your thing up blah blah blah but we're definitely living in a

[1:35:44] Trustee McConchie: different era now where marinas like need to be the way we do things um like remember we went to

[1:35:51] Trustee McConchie: jane about it to sydney island and i

[1:35:53] Voice 6: guess yeah the

[1:35:55] Trustee McConchie: question that that like the the difference

[1:35:58] Trustee McConchie: between piers island and sydney island was dramatic amazing

[1:36:02] Voice 6: around

[1:36:03] Trustee McConchie: sydney island you know

[1:36:05] Trustee McConchie: It was this pristine coastline. You know, they've got a lot of steep slopes with sand dunes that can break off.

[1:36:12] Trustee McConchie: And so they made a decision to put in a marina where as pure as island, I guess.

[1:36:17] Trustee McConchie: I mean, I don't know where they would put a marina, but they it's all just individual little docks all around the island. Right.

[1:36:24] Trustee McConchie: And that's going to have some impact. So the question I'm wondering is, like, if we're going to make this decision,

[1:36:30] Trustee McConchie: decision it has to be from a strong environmental scientific decision right so from what i'm

[1:36:37] Trustee McConchie: understanding because i'm not a scientist right is the the construction of new dots

[1:36:43] Trustee McConchie: and impedes the environment in the following ways which is what you alluded to earlier trustee

[1:36:48] Trustee McConchie: morrison our job is to think about the environment so it impedes it by affecting the the um foreshore

[1:36:54] Trustee McConchie: area uh because why the construction damages the cliff like here's

[1:37:01] Trustee Morrison: a there's an example that was

[1:37:03] Trustee Morrison: up on north pender up toward port wash where there's a migration pattern of whales coming

[1:37:09] Trustee Morrison: around the tip of the island and the pod was like there and they went in put pilings in a dock and

[1:37:14] Trustee Morrison: that dock was like that was really problematic and that dock was agreed to by a like way before

[1:37:21] Trustee Morrison: but it was never put in and then eventually they put it in and we couldn't fight it because there

[1:37:27] Trustee Morrison: was already zoning in place and i just feel like that's a bad move to put zoning in place in

[1:37:33] Trustee Morrison: thinking that something will happen without like a careful community consideration of like okay

[1:37:38] Trustee Morrison: it's really going to happen now like this is the moment it's happening right

[1:37:42] Trustee McConchie: well that's interesting

[1:37:43] Trustee McConchie: so other than the whales let's say you want to build a dock in port browning or bedwell harbor

[1:37:48] Trustee McConchie: or something and there's not too many whales well they sometimes do they don't really come in what

[1:37:53] Trustee McConchie: what the eelgrass beds are a threat when you put in these pilings like what what are we saying to

[1:37:59] Trustee McConchie: the there must be a logical environmental reason and i just want that to be articulated why we're

[1:38:04] Trustee McConchie: addressing that what what is the environmental concern when you construct a dock in a harbor

[1:38:09] Trustee McConchie: for example well

[1:38:10] Trustee Morrison: i think the the the thing that we're saying is that every dock needs to be

[1:38:15] Trustee Morrison: be considered in the cumulative impact of all docks in the region and that um because it it

[1:38:22] Trustee Morrison: maybe it doesn't have eelgrass because of its aspect you know to the sun maybe it doesn't have

[1:38:27] Trustee Morrison: any migratory issues through it maybe you know so maybe there's a bunch of things that are just

[1:38:31] Trustee Morrison: negated and then it comes down to like okay well are there information concerns about it let's

[1:38:36] Trustee Morrison: address those right and so like all of those things together need to be addressed for every

[1:38:42] Trustee Morrison: doc individually and saying okay to 11 docs right now without carefully looking at each one of them

[1:38:48] Trustee Morrison: i'm just not comfortable with that and so we're not saying there's like you could yeah i don't

[1:38:56] Trustee Morrison: know i guess that's the question i have are we saying that's it like if we do this there would

[1:39:00] Trustee Morrison: never be another doc on pender or are we saying that you'd have to apply for a rezoning specifically

[1:39:05] Trustee Morrison: to allow a doc i guess that's the question well

[1:39:08] Voice 5: the direction you gave previously was put in some

[1:39:10] Voice 5: some OCP policies like South Pender has,

[1:39:12] Voice 5: that if you apply for, if you want to dock,

[1:39:14] Voice 5: you have to apply for rezoning

[1:39:15] Voice 5: and you have to address the following points.

[1:39:18] Voice 5: Environmental impacts, First Nations, cultural heritage,

[1:39:22] Voice 5: cumulative impacts, visual impacts, for example.

[1:39:26] Voice 5: Like that's an issue on, that came up on Galliano.

[1:39:29] Voice 5: So the Galliano has a DPA over the water

[1:39:33] Voice 5: and over the upland, the foreshore.

[1:39:36] Voice 5: And so it regulates docks and make sure they get, you know,

[1:39:40] Voice 5: reports on impacts on eelgrass and other environmental features and on where that

[1:39:44] Voice 5: comes where it lands on the upland um but it's a dpa for sensitive ecosystems so there was a doc

[1:39:52] Voice 5: that addressed that greatly right it had a great really did a really good job of addressing the

[1:39:56] Voice 5: environmental impacts but it was right in front of the neighbor's property and the ltc couldn't do

[1:40:02] Voice 5: anything under the under the it would have been right and right across just given the configuration

[1:40:07] Voice 5: of the shoreline it would have cut right across the neighbor's prop in front of their view and

[1:40:10] Voice 5: their property and they objected to it but the ltc couldn't do anything about it because they've

[1:40:15] Voice 5: addressed all the environmental issues whereas a rezoning that could be something you take into

[1:40:18] Voice 5: consideration right

[1:40:20] Trustee Morrison: so from that perspective it sounds quite reasonable that we like chose that

[1:40:24] Trustee Morrison: path so like from that perspective i think that is the way to handle it like each dock it has

[1:40:29] Trustee Morrison: there are so many variations you can't plan for them all so then you kind of force people who

[1:40:34] Trustee Morrison: want docks into the process of like i mean frankly if you live on the water you it's fine you can do

[1:40:40] Trustee Morrison: the paperwork to be able to handle applying for a doc and so i just think that's the way it should

[1:40:45] Trustee Morrison: be because that you know i don't want to be pierce island here i want to make sure that we have good

[1:40:51] Trustee Morrison: you know for sure marine health and access so yeah

[1:40:58] Trustee McConchie: because right now you can just build a doc

[1:40:59] Trustee McConchie: well not right now before the province put in this thing you could just build a doc on your

[1:41:04] Trustee McConchie: property right so you had

[1:41:05] Trustee Morrison: to have the province pardon sorry robert with

[1:41:08] Voice 5: some exceptions there's

[1:41:09] Voice 5: certain areas that are zoned for no docs a certain area there are some dpas right but they're not in

[1:41:13] Voice 5: areas where you know docs would be built anyway because they're title um but yeah you just need

[1:41:20] Voice 5: tenure from the province yeah

[1:41:21] Trustee McConchie: okay so going through this process allows the local trust

[1:41:24] Trustee McConchie: committee whoever we elect in the future to to be a part of the process to ensure that it's

[1:41:30] Trustee McConchie: i mean that makes sense to me i mean i i just haven't heard the case to because there i believe

[1:41:36] Trustee McConchie: even the policy statement and correct me if i'm wrong there's a lot of discussion about just

[1:41:39] Trustee McConchie: banning docs outright in the whole area right and that caused quite the reaction from folks

[1:41:46] Trustee McConchie: um so i'm not hearing that from uh you guys so what i'm what i'm wondering is uh should we just

[1:41:53] Trustee McConchie: proceed with this what we're talking about which is the rezoning process essentially what they do

[1:41:57] Trustee McConchie: on self-pattern

[1:41:57] Trustee Morrison: i think i would go with that that idea and just to be clear even in the trust policy

[1:42:03] Trustee Morrison: statement i'm not a fan of the idea of banning docs outright i'm i'm a fan of this method of

[1:42:09] Trustee Morrison: like carefully considering each doc relative to the cumulative impact of all docs right

[1:42:16] Trustee McConchie: and a person who's going to build a dog if this goes through uh you know they better be pretty

[1:42:20] Trustee McConchie: invested i guess in getting the doc that's a lot of effort to put a doc in now rather than just go

[1:42:26] Trustee McConchie: to the marina you know and so they so the the property owner will have to balance that and

[1:42:31] Trustee McConchie: figure that out whether or not that's uh what they want to do so we're kind of putting things

[1:42:36] Trustee McConchie: in their hands and we're allowing the community to have input and it seems logical to me i'd be

[1:42:39] Trustee McConchie: curious to know people listening um any feedback they may have on on that this particular issue

[1:42:47] Trustee Morrison: so

[1:42:47] Voice 5: motion for option two i

[1:42:49] Trustee Morrison: think it's a motion for option two

[1:42:50] Trustee Morrison: so i move uh there's probably a

[1:42:53] Trustee Morrison: motion format in here sorry shannon if i hash it up a little bit oh there it is um i don't see the

[1:43:05] Trustee Morrison: actually draft motion that you want me to use you'll

[1:43:08] Voice 5: have to make one up it's just the local

[1:43:09] Voice 5: trust committee request staff um amend the zoning and the draft land use bylaw of the foreshore

[1:43:17] Voice 5: to water three for those 11 in-stream private moorage applications yes

[1:43:31] Trustee Morrison: that does not make a

[1:43:32] Trustee Morrison: minute doc okay shannon did that work for you it's

[1:43:37] Trustee Patrick: just amend zoning to foreshore water three

[1:43:39] Trustee Patrick: really yeah the reference to the 11 applications

[1:43:43] Voice 5: isn't necessary well yeah it is because this is

[1:43:45] Voice 5: specific to the issue of

[1:43:47] Voice 5: those in-stream applications so there's previous direction

[1:43:50] Voice 5: for people okay gotcha

[1:43:51] Voice 5: gotcha sort

[1:43:52] Voice 5: of finger zones coming out

[1:43:54] Voice 2: i can read it back uh robert

[1:43:59] Voice 2: i might not have heard clearly the last couple words okay the north pender island local trust

[1:44:03] Voice 2: committee requests staff to amend the zoning in the draft land use bylaw of the foreshore to water

[1:44:08] Voice 2: 3 for the 11 in-stream private branch application?

[1:44:12] Voice 5: Private, sorry, private moorage.

[1:44:13] Voice 5: Private moorage, sorry. Private moorage, yeah.

[1:44:16] Trustee Patrick: Okay, so I move. All right, is there a second?

[1:44:20] Trustee McConchie: Second, yeah.

[1:44:21] Trustee Patrick: Any discussion? I'll call the vote then. All those in favor? And that's carried.

[1:44:29] Trustee Morrison: Maybe just one last communication plea. Please don't say that we're banning docks throughout

[1:44:35] Trustee Morrison: North Tender Island, because that's not what we just said. We just said that you would have to

[1:44:40] Trustee Morrison: rezone potentially and do do actually provide feedback on whether you think that that's good

[1:44:46] Trustee Morrison: bad or if you're indifferent that's fine

[1:44:49] Trustee Patrick: we're also just

[1:44:51] Trustee Patrick: drafting a bylaw that you will have

[1:44:52] Trustee Patrick: lots of opportunity to provide input on as it goes through its process and

[1:44:59] Trustee McConchie: i would also

[1:45:00] Trustee McConchie: like to express my gratitude for those folks that sent that unsigned letter out to the public

[1:45:07] Trustee McConchie: because consequently now everyone's very skeptical of the sources of information and this was a good

[1:45:14] Trustee McConchie: experience for our islands to go through to question who the authors are uh to ensure that

[1:45:19] Trustee McConchie: you're communicating with those folks involved in the process in government uh to get

[1:45:24] Trustee McConchie: you know um

[1:45:25] Trustee McConchie: to get an accurate sense of really what's taking place and uh to move away from uh this kind of uh

[1:45:33] Trustee McConchie: what's the word? Explosive conversations that seem to be taking place. So it's also interesting

[1:45:41] Trustee McConchie: as another side point that Facebook whistleblower talking about how damaging and divisive Facebook

[1:45:48] Trustee McConchie: conversations are on communities and that Facebook has chosen to go ahead and think about for profit

[1:45:57] Trustee McConchie: rather than the community needs uh so just want to put that out there as well yeah

[1:46:03] Trustee Patrick: thanks all right

[1:46:05] Trustee Patrick: anything else then on docs so it's now just a general conversation or on the bylaw go ahead

[1:46:12] Trustee Patrick: next

[1:46:13] Voice 5: steps really um so i think the next step

[1:46:16] Voice 5: is another special meeting sorry

[1:46:19] Trustee Morrison: can i pause us for

[1:46:20] Trustee Morrison: like a five minute just get up and move i know that we were getting close to the end but we've

[1:46:25] Trustee Morrison: also been sitting for like almost two hours

[1:46:27] Trustee Patrick: absolutely i'm all for that so let's take a

[1:46:31] Trustee Patrick: five minute break then yeah so right back what

[1:50:06] Trustee Morrison: do you want we can hear you laura

[1:50:10] Voice 6: hey

[1:50:19] Trustee Morrison: laura i'm here

[1:50:21] Trustee Morrison: yep sorry

[1:50:36] Trustee Patrick: i don't mean to be yawning it's friday afternoon there's

[1:50:40] Trustee McConchie: a big storm coming too it sounds

[1:50:43] Trustee Patrick: Sounds like it, batten

[1:50:44] Trustee McConchie: down the hatches folks.

[1:50:46] Trustee Patrick: Yep.

[1:50:47] Trustee Patrick: Okay, so we're on to page eight of the agenda package

[1:50:50] Trustee Patrick: on sort of next steps, so go ahead, Robert.

[1:50:53] Voice 5: So yeah, it looks like the next steps would be

[1:50:56] Voice 5: a special meeting scheduled November or early December.

[1:51:02] Voice 5: Invite the South Bender LTC.

[1:51:06] Voice 5: Trustee McConkie will report back on his meeting

[1:51:08] Voice 5: or discussions with the agricultural folks.

[1:51:11] Voice 5: we'd come back with info on the groundwater impacts for the c2 zoning changes or the c2 lots

[1:51:18] Voice 5: and we'd have the the changes agreed to today incorporated into the draft

[1:51:23] Voice 5: um i don't think you're ready to schedule community information meetings yet so those

[1:51:28] Voice 5: will be in the new year well

[1:51:31] Trustee McConchie: are we going to be able to get this all done before the term is up

[1:51:33] Trustee McConchie: getting close yeah so the community information meetings should be concise in a particular month

[1:51:42] Trustee McConchie: maybe uh

[1:51:43] Voice 5: yeah yeah a couple you know one on a

[1:51:47] Voice 5: saturday one on an evening evening maybe

[1:51:50] Trustee McConchie: okay how far apart does first reading and second reading have to be you

[1:51:54] Voice 5: can have them at the same

[1:51:54] Voice 5: meeting yeah

[1:51:55] Trustee McConchie: okay just

[1:51:56] Voice 5: have to have the public hearing before third reading and after first

[1:51:59] Voice 5: reading there's referrals to do as well right so right

[1:52:02] Trustee McConchie: so we could potentially let in a let's just

[1:52:05] Trustee McConchie: i'm making a complete hypothetical we let's say it's in january we could have a chunk of community

[1:52:10] Trustee McConchie: information meetings in january go to first reading in uh well that's hypothetical

[1:52:15] Trustee McConchie: robert

[1:52:16] Trustee McConchie: into february and mark like i mean and

[1:52:20] Voice 5: referrals as well in february march first nations longer

[1:52:25] Voice 5: time to to comment yeah um and then consider any changes um as a result of the community

[1:52:32] Voice 5: information meeting and the referrals um and then schedule a hearing yeah

[1:52:38] Trustee McConchie: because i'm seeing

[1:52:39] Trustee McConchie: a very busy year for us next year yeah meetings and uh i'm just that's what i want to find out

[1:52:45] Trustee McConchie: from trustee morris and chair patrick how your guys's lives are are we going to be able to get

[1:52:50] Trustee McConchie: all we've done here done is this realistic so

[1:52:55] Trustee Morrison: yeah so what i would suggest is that we actually

[1:52:58] Trustee Morrison: ask you to come back with possible meeting dates um at the next meeting for community

[1:53:05] Trustee Morrison: community information meetings,

[1:53:06] Trustee Morrison: because my other concern is that we need to hit

[1:53:08] Trustee Morrison: the Pender post multiple times, preferably.

[1:53:12] Trustee Morrison: And so if you, like in the November meeting, right?

[1:53:17] Trustee Morrison: It would be the November meeting.

[1:53:18] Voice 5: Well,

[1:53:19] Trustee Morrison: there's a regular

[1:53:19] Voice 5: meeting in November.

[1:53:22] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, right.

[1:53:23] Trustee Morrison: And the regular meeting in November

[1:53:25] Trustee Morrison: is already after the post date.

[1:53:29] Trustee Morrison: So then we would only get it in in December.

[1:53:31] Trustee Morrison: So we really need to have the meetings in hand

[1:53:33] Trustee Morrison: at the November meeting.

[1:53:35] Trustee Morrison: If we want them in January.

[1:53:37] Voice 5: Okay.

[1:53:37] Voice 5: At the November regular meeting.

[1:53:39] Trustee Morrison: Yeah.

[1:53:40] Voice 5: Okay.

[1:53:42] Trustee Morrison: So if you can come back with options for January, I do think we need to have the community

[1:53:46] Trustee Morrison: meetings in January.

[1:53:48] Trustee Morrison: And then there's still time for public to give feedback in the public hearing kind of

[1:53:52] Trustee Morrison: space, but that gets us enough time to kind of iterate on this.

[1:53:56] Trustee Morrison: And I do think we have enough time to do this.

[1:53:59] Trustee Morrison: We've had a lot of conversations all the way along with folks.

[1:54:02] Trustee Morrison: So I feel good about it right now.

[1:54:03] Trustee Morrison: it's

[1:54:04] Voice 5: been lots and lots of consultation you know it

[1:54:06] Voice 5: started like it was not summer 2021 it was

[1:54:10] Voice 5: summer 2020 that we were doing those discussion papers and started reviewing those so there's

[1:54:15] Voice 5: been lots of lots of consultation um but with these things once there's a draft bylaw you know

[1:54:21] Voice 5: more people more folks become come engaged which

[1:54:23] Voice 5: is fine yeah that's fine which is great and uh

[1:54:27] Voice 5: early january is not good for meetings with ferry schedules and power outages and so on so it's

[1:54:32] Voice 5: later january maybe maybe into february like one in january january one in early february

[1:54:37] Voice 5: then um ltc meet uh make the changes because you're probably gonna you know you're gonna

[1:54:43] Voice 5: hear something that's gonna prompt you at least to want to discuss making changes to the draft

[1:54:47] Voice 5: late february and then uh first reading goes out on referral um schedule the hearing okay um can

[1:54:56] Trustee Morrison: It's all very,

[1:54:57] Voice 5: it's all very doable in terms of the timelines. It's just things emerge, right, in terms of consultation.

[1:55:05] Trustee Morrison: Yeah. Okay, well we'll just see, we'll see how it unfolds, but it, you know, it would be good to try and, you know, see what we can do. I think we have a little bit of wiggle room, but we're losing it.

[1:55:17] Trustee Morrison: It's getting down there.

[1:55:18] Trustee Morrison: there yeah um i can i ask as you plan for the meetings that um folks loop around with me just

[1:55:25] Trustee Morrison: to check scheduling because i know i'm often the hardest to schedule with yeah

[1:55:29] Trustee McConchie: yeah so robert do

[1:55:31] Trustee McConchie: we have enough financial or capital in our budget to pay for meetings with staff overtime right now

[1:55:39] Trustee McConchie: if we need to so

[1:55:41] Voice 5: overtime doesn't come from the project budget okay so the project budget pays

[1:55:45] Voice 5: for the meetings like the hard costs of the meetings like the renting the hall the channing

[1:55:50] Voice 5: um any sort of mail outs advertising um so there's a project budget for the current fiscal year

[1:55:56] Voice 5: that's enough to cover anticipated meeting costs and even a public hearing before march 31st which

[1:56:03] Voice 5: is unlikely next fiscal year will be the challenge with uh with if you saw our tender watched fbc

[1:56:12] Voice 5: meeting it's a it's going to be a challenging fiscal year next year but if it's public hearing

[1:56:16] Voice 5: only that's that's a small very small amount

[1:56:18] Voice 5: okay

[1:56:20] Trustee Morrison: so then that also makes me realize that

[1:56:22] Trustee Morrison: can you come back with a draft communication that we would mail out um between the November

[1:56:29] Trustee Morrison: like to to get people out to those public meetings because that's also been something

[1:56:33] Trustee Morrison: named and concerned with public consultation is all the pathways we try don't seem to work so

[1:56:39] Trustee Morrison: So it'd be good to have a mail out as soon as possible to get people.

[1:56:43] Trustee Morrison: And then that would actually be good timing really,

[1:56:45] Trustee Morrison: because it would catch anybody over Christmas that is coming in for their

[1:56:49] Trustee Morrison: cabins too, potentially.

[1:56:51] Voice 5: And so we budgeted for the mail out. And if you recall,

[1:56:54] Voice 5: there was a bit of a discussion about doing mail outs like,

[1:56:57] Voice 5: or like a year ago and you guys decided the LTC decided it's too early.

[1:57:03] Voice 5: We want to do this

[1:57:04] Voice 5: when there's a draft bylaw for people to look at.

[1:57:06] Trustee Patrick: Yeah.

[1:57:07] Voice 5: Yeah. Okay.

[1:57:09] Trustee Patrick: perfect that's great thank you all right so if there's nothing else on that we have another

[1:57:14] Trustee Patrick: item on the agenda the soil um

[1:57:16] Voice 5: get a get a resolution to to schedule the special meeting

[1:57:20] Voice 5: there

[1:57:21] Trustee Morrison: we go uh and that's in december we

[1:57:24] Voice 5: don't we don't have a date that we would coordinate yeah

[1:57:26] Voice 5: just to just to this is for to like with the things we just talked about basically to invite

[1:57:33] Voice 5: the south pander trustees right finalize the direction on the floor area get the final draft

[1:57:40] Voice 5: the final direction on the floor so we can finalize the draft okay

[1:57:45] Trustee Morrison: all right what is the

[1:57:51] Trustee McConchie: morrison how's your schedule yeah

[1:57:53] Trustee Morrison: i'm just i'm like okay where do we fit that in but you know

[1:57:57] Trustee Morrison: we need to fit it in so even if i have to attend it virtually for some reason which is less than

[1:58:01] Trustee Morrison: ideal like that's the way it is so

[1:58:04] Voice 5: it's the recommendation on right at the top of the staff

[1:58:06] Voice 5: report on the second page of the agenda okay

[1:58:13] Trustee Morrison: got it the north pender island local trust committee

[1:58:16] Trustee Morrison: request staff to schedule a special meeting in december 2021 to present the draft bylaws for

[1:58:21] Trustee Morrison: the land use bylaw review project to the local trust committee for review and comment and invite

[1:58:27] Trustee Patrick: the so no

[1:58:28] Trustee Morrison: we already did that we already did that

[1:58:30] Trustee Patrick: good you should add um

[1:58:32] Voice 5: okay yeah i think you did

[1:58:34] Voice 5: we already did

[1:58:34] Trustee Morrison: that by motion at this meeting yeah all

[1:58:36] Trustee Patrick: right is there a second second

[1:58:40] Trustee McConchie: uh any

[1:58:42] Trustee Patrick: discussion i'll call the vote all those in favor and that's carried and

[1:58:48] Trustee Morrison: just the the same ask for

[1:58:50] Trustee Morrison: that one that's for scheduling the community information meetings if folks can reach out and

[1:58:54] Trustee Morrison: like the scheduling folks generally know to how to reach me like because it's complicated to get

[1:58:58] Trustee Morrison: through all the 10 000 emails oh

[1:59:04] Trustee Patrick: we'll work as best we can thank you okay so now we're on the

[1:59:10] Trustee Patrick: next item on the agenda which is the soil bylaw project and there's a

[1:59:13] Voice 5: report yes friday it's

[1:59:15] Voice 5: getting late this is just more of an update to the local trust committee sort of summarizing

[1:59:18] Voice 5: where i'm at now with this draft so what's attached are sort of the key provisions of the

[1:59:26] Voice 5: draft bylaw and uh they're the exemptions or the exclusions um and and what would not be exempted

[1:59:34] Voice 5: from anything there's general provisions which would apply to any soil alteration

[1:59:40] Voice 5: whether you need a permit or not and then there's the conditions that would be put into or could be

[1:59:47] Voice 5: put into permits um and then the next steps in the process are would be too well local trust

[1:59:55] Voice 5: committee can give some direction if there's something they want different um

[2:00:00] Voice 5: to finalize a draft of the bylaw,

[2:00:01] Voice 5: to do the preliminary consultation with the contractors

[2:00:04] Voice 5: who wanted to get these provisions out to them,

[2:00:09] Voice 5: bring it together with all the legal recitals

[2:00:12] Voice 5: and get it drafted in that form,

[2:00:14] Voice 5: circulate for legal review and bylaw enforcement in particular

[2:00:18] Voice 5: to review and then report back with the finalized draft.

[2:00:25] Trustee McConchie: I mean, I want to hear back from the contractors on this

[2:00:30] Trustee McConchie: and uh i

[2:00:32] Trustee McConchie: want to hear back on how efficient it'll be done like this is a new thing right other than

[2:00:37] Trustee McConchie: what salt spring has been experiencing uh this is one of our more experimental bylaws and the

[2:00:43] Trustee McConchie: intent the problem i i perceive is that uh you know there there's a lot of uh potential for land

[2:00:52] Trustee McConchie: to be disturbed and a lot of potential for land to be altered and we have limited amounts of land

[2:00:58] Trustee McConchie: So the question, should the local government or local trust create a regulation in which there's stricter controls on their operations? And that's kind of what the debate should be, I believe. And yeah, Robert, it would be great to hear what the contractors think about this.

[2:01:22] Voice 5: and there's a there's a number of if you like dials that can be turned in these provisions

[2:01:26] Voice 5: like the volumetric one the triggers right that that could be adjusted particularly

[2:01:33] Voice 5: based on that yeah

[2:01:35] Trustee Morrison: and i think to be even clearer ben like there i know of three off the top of my

[2:01:41] Trustee Morrison: head uh instances since we've been in this position where i feel like i've had people

[2:01:48] Trustee Morrison: able to identify concerns related that this would help resolve that I can think of off the top of my

[2:01:54] Trustee Morrison: head and so I do think it's a good idea I also would really like to hear from contractors and

[2:02:01] Trustee Morrison: others like where they feel this is good or not and so like getting some feedback would be helpful

[2:02:06] Trustee Morrison: so yeah I think I'm going to go ahead with this okay all right

[2:02:12] Voice 5: okay no yeah no resolution required

[2:02:14] Voice 5: this is all in the project charter so yeah thanks brother

[2:02:17] Trustee Morrison: I also just wanted to touch quickly on

[2:02:21] Trustee Morrison: there is a couple pieces of correspondence and i do want to stress to folks i'm in the phone book

[2:02:26] Trustee Morrison: um it is so much better for you to text me on my phone number or phone me um to arrange meetings

[2:02:32] Trustee Morrison: then um shoot me emails because i do get swamped with emails um and so it is really helpful to do

[2:02:40] Trustee Morrison: that so just reach out if you want to check in yeah

[2:02:46] Trustee McConchie: we get we get lots of correspondence and i

[2:02:48] Trustee McConchie: I always appreciate it.

[2:02:49] Trustee McConchie: One thing I just looking back in my notes, I did want to,

[2:02:53] Trustee McConchie: and I'm looking forward to talking to South Pender trustees about this is

[2:02:57] Trustee McConchie: discussing increasing the size of permitted cottages or second houses on

[2:03:03] Trustee McConchie: parcels of land.

[2:03:05] Trustee McConchie: And the reason I wanted to mention this is because this is for a further

[2:03:10] Trustee McConchie: conversation about whether or not we allow,

[2:03:13] Trustee McConchie: because currently it's 600 square feet,

[2:03:15] Trustee McConchie: whether or not we allow for someone to build a larger parcel of larger structure on their

[2:03:22] Trustee McConchie: property that's secondary because I have one example where a person has built something and

[2:03:30] Trustee McConchie: it's 650 square feet and they the only option right now is to tear down 50 square feet of their

[2:03:39] Trustee McConchie: cottage because they built it and now they want to build a second structure and it's to support

[2:03:43] Trustee McConchie: their families and so i i'm curious to know i'm curious to know south pander trustees thoughts

[2:03:48] Trustee McConchie: on that and whether or not that's something we want to address as well and

[2:03:53] Trustee Patrick: these are all

[2:03:53] Trustee McConchie: yeah

[2:03:54] Trustee Patrick: i was going to say this that earlier when i mentioned about the uh giving up subdivision

[2:03:59] Trustee Patrick: potential in exchange for more dwellings to maintain some larger parcels of like the farms

[2:04:03] Trustee Patrick: that could also apply to just larger parcels in general where we're trying to you know or covenant

[2:04:09] Trustee Patrick: protect other methods of getting more land protected in exchange for something so that

[2:04:14] Trustee Patrick: i think there's a

[2:04:17] Trustee Patrick: whole lot of interesting opportunities out there to encourage

[2:04:22] Trustee McConchie: for sure so yeah definitely uh it's just uh we've got a lot of really good things going on here

[2:04:28] Trustee McConchie: uh so i want to thank you guys for uh working on this a lot a lot of these ideas are meant to

[2:04:33] Trustee McConchie: benefit the environment and our community and so uh i appreciate staff's work on this i just want

[2:04:38] Trustee McConchie: to mention that as well and i appreciate these uh thank you for this pass

[2:04:41] Voice 5: that on to kim

[2:04:42] Trustee McConchie: yeah thanks

[2:04:43] Trustee McConchie: all

[2:04:45] Trustee Patrick: right then is there any other business i'm really looking forward to seeing you ben in person

[2:04:51] Trustee Patrick: and uh north pender uh residents next week uh so our next meeting is on the 28th at uh sorry what

[2:05:00] Trustee Patrick: time in the morning i don't have that in front of me here uh just wanted

[2:05:04] Voice 5: to make sure i was right

[2:05:05] Voice 5: I guess it's back to 10, probably, if we're live, right, for the very start.

[2:05:08] Trustee Patrick: Is Deb 930?

[2:05:10] Voice 5: Are you going

[2:05:11] Voice 5: to be on a computer?

[2:05:14] Trustee Patrick: Deb will be joining us on a computer.

[2:05:17] Trustee Patrick: I'm bringing all kinds of contraptions.

[2:05:19] Trustee Patrick: We are going to attempt to live stream.

[2:05:21] Trustee Patrick: Attempt to do it.

[2:05:22] Trustee Patrick: Have

[2:05:23] Voice 6: you been trained yet?

[2:05:24] Trustee Patrick: I will be trained, but I can't promise that the knowledge is going to sink in.

[2:05:31] Trustee Patrick: I'm counting on Ben to help me plug cords

[2:05:34] Trustee Patrick: in and all this stuff to get it up and running.

[2:05:35] Trustee Patrick: in but we're going to attempt to live stream please be aware that we are attempting this is

[2:05:41] Trustee Patrick: new it's going to all the you know the wi-fi in the building may or may not cooperate and uh if

[2:05:47] Trustee Patrick: we can't live stream we'll be recording the meeting and we'll be making that recording

[2:05:52] Trustee Patrick: available so the the the backup is that uh you know i

[2:05:56] Voice 5: think it's recorded anyway and then the

[2:05:58] Voice 5: live stream correct is additional to the recording and that's what requires the bandwidth so it

[2:06:03] Voice 5: i think it was um salt spring right where it didn't work the streaming didn't work we didn't

[2:06:07] Voice 5: have the

[2:06:07] Trustee Patrick: wi-fi bandwidth to make it work so yeah so we'll we'll do our best i

[2:06:13] Trustee McConchie: have the utmost

[2:06:14] Trustee McConchie: confidence and faith in the anglican church's ability to stream and all right well i i'm sorry

[2:06:23] Trustee Morrison: to miss everyone next week but

[2:06:25] Trustee Patrick: i will uh be there travels and how jealous that we're not

[2:06:29] Trustee Patrick: there with you so bring back lots of

[2:06:31] Trustee McConchie: appreciate you you representing the community uh to uh trustee

[2:06:35] Trustee McConchie: morrison canada change in the world and represent canada and and uh you know making making strong

[2:06:40] Trustee McConchie: efforts to protect the world and the world's environment so thanks for doing that

[2:06:44] Voice 5: and if you

[2:06:44] Voice 5: have questions about any of the permit applications for next week give phil or kim a call with

[2:06:49] Voice 5: specifics because phil's probably not going to be there right so oh

[2:06:53] Trustee McConchie: okay okay

[2:06:55] Voice 5: because it's all right

[2:06:56] Voice 5: in

[2:06:56] Trustee McConchie: person yeah no thank you very much for letting me know that robert great

[2:07:00] Trustee Patrick: thanks okay thanks

[2:07:01] Trustee Patrick: everybody uh so motion to adjourn yes

[2:07:04] Trustee McConchie: i'd like to make a motion to adjourn

[2:07:06] Trustee Patrick: seconded just jesse

[2:07:08] Trustee Patrick: morrison all those in favor we are adjourned so uh have a great weekend everyone

[2:07:12] Trustee Patrick: and batten down

[2:07:13] Trustee Patrick: the hatches yeah

[2:07:14] Trustee McConchie: i'll

[2:07:15] Trustee Patrick: see you on

[2:07:15] Trustee McConchie: thursday laura take care have

[2:07:17] Trustee McConchie: a safe trip if i

[2:07:18] Trustee McConchie: don't see you okay

[2:07:18] Trustee McConchie: thank

[2:07:19] Voice 6: you bye guys