Islands Trust Council regular meeting, November 1, 2021

[0:00:00] Trustee Middleton: Welcome. Hello.

[0:00:02] Voice 8: Steve Wright's missing.

[0:00:04] Trustee Middleton: This is Steve Wright. Deb Morrison has excused herself

[0:00:07] Trustee Middleton: because she's enjoying

[0:00:09] Trustee Middleton: similar weather to we in Glasgow.

[0:00:15] Trustee Middleton: And

[0:00:18] Trustee Middleton: Trustee McConkie

[0:00:19] Trustee Middleton: typically doesn't make this time,

[0:00:21] Trustee Middleton: so I haven't heard from him, but I'll just

[0:00:23] Trustee Middleton: assume he's not going to be attending.

[0:00:29] Trustee Middleton: So we have...

[0:00:35] Trustee Middleton: I think we have a quorum, do we not?

[0:00:37] Trustee Middleton: To proceed? In case you're

[0:00:45] Trustee Middleton: uh you're you're muted if you were speaking there

[0:00:48] Voice 8: um yeah we have six so we've got a quorum okay

[0:00:52] Trustee Middleton: well i'd like i'd like to uh declare this uh meeting of the select committee of the governance

[0:00:59] Trustee Middleton: of management review of the of the islands trust in in session and acknowledge that uh

[0:01:06] Trustee Middleton: we are meeting in the various parts of the traditional territories of the

[0:01:09] Trustee Middleton: the Coast Salish peoples, and we do so with thanks and gratitude. And I would just like to make an

[0:01:16] Trustee Middleton: introduction to a member of the committee who is joining us because Trustee Deb Morrison is

[0:01:24] Trustee Middleton: fighting the good fight at the COP26 conference in Glasgow. And we wish her all the best in her

[0:01:33] Trustee Middleton: her efforts there on our and all the peoples of the world's behalf. And in her stead is her vice

[0:01:41] Trustee Middleton: chair on the Trust Programs Committee, Trustee Timothy Peterson from elected on Liskiti Island.

[0:01:47] Trustee Middleton: And he's filling in her position here on this committee while she's away. And I'd like to

[0:01:54] Trustee Middleton: introduce our consultants that I see on the screen. The lead of the consultant team is Mr.

[0:01:59] Trustee Middleton: Charles Kelly in a vibrantly off pink, I'll say, we'll call it fuchsia, very attractive tone of

[0:02:07] Trustee Middleton: shirt. And then we have Eric Vance, who's the planning expert of the team, and James Roche,

[0:02:15] Trustee Middleton: who's the advocacy and auxiliary governance member of the team. And so thank you all for

[0:02:23] Trustee Middleton: joining us. And thank you, Tim, for jumping in and filling in Trustee Morrison's seat.

[0:02:30] Trustee Middleton: having so there's trustee critchley just joined us thank you um having said all that uh we're now

[0:02:37] Trustee Middleton: before as we have an agenda and thank you to uh laurie foster for his preparation um are there

[0:02:44] Trustee Middleton: any any additions or commentary to request explanation of the items on that agenda i

[0:02:53] Trustee Middleton: see chair uh trustee in this case luckham's hand is up please sir go ahead um

[0:02:58] Trustee Luckham: thank you chair

[0:03:00] Trustee Luckham: middleton i'll change my name um i would like to add a new business item and i just simply like to

[0:03:07] Trustee Luckham: title it communications um i've had some queries from the public uh with regards to um communications

[0:03:15] Trustee Luckham: from this committee and um if that's all right i'll ask for that to be added sure

[0:03:22] Trustee Middleton: um i think we

[0:03:26] Trustee Middleton: can we can make that item 4.3 under business items if that's all right or we can make it 5.1 under

[0:03:33] Trustee Middleton: new business either way it'll come right right after we finish 4.2 uh

[0:03:39] Trustee Luckham: well under new business

[0:03:40] Trustee Luckham: probably it'd be

[0:03:41] Trustee Middleton: better okay great okay um uh anything else in regard the agenda okay so may

[0:03:54] Trustee Middleton: may i consider that adopted by consent great okay so adopted um and the context notes that

[0:04:07] Trustee Middleton: those are helpful thank you um review now of the minutes um of october 4th any any comment

[0:04:16] Trustee Middleton: uh correction and or otherwise regarding the minutes of october 4th yeah

[0:04:25] Voice 14: trustee middleton

[0:04:26] Voice 14: and

[0:04:30] Trustee Middleton: oh sorry yes yes so uh peter please go ahead yeah i

[0:04:35] Trustee Luckham: i i'm just trying to get my copy of the

[0:04:38] Trustee Luckham: minutes up here um i don't know that i necessarily need credit for anything but um there was a new

[0:04:46] Trustee Luckham: business item which was added which is um um not accredited to myself to having raised the point

[0:04:53] Trustee Luckham: And nor is the answer that you provided in the minutes, the question was not posed in the minutes.

[0:05:04] Trustee Luckham: So it would be good at least if the question could be added there.

[0:05:13] Voice 4: What was the question?

[0:05:15] Trustee Luckham: The question was to the consultant, is that how has staff engagement been going?

[0:05:24] Trustee Luckham: going and are there any issues, if I remember rightly?

[0:05:31] Voice 4: 4.2 does address that under staff engagement.

[0:05:35] Voice 4: So your question, I guess, isn't there.

[0:05:37] Voice 4: So that's what you're worried about,

[0:05:39] Voice 4: but the response certainly is in that it says,

[0:05:42] Voice 4: Chair Middleton states

[0:05:43] Voice 4: consultants were happy

[0:05:44] Voice 4: with the cooperation being provided by staff,

[0:05:48] Voice 4: that there were no issues, so.

[0:05:49] Voice 4: so

[0:05:51] Trustee Middleton: um uh trustee luck would you like just the addition of a um of a question there and

[0:05:58] Trustee Middleton: under 4.2 yes that's right

[0:06:01] Trustee Luckham: the answer is perfectly adequate and the uh the question was posed

[0:06:05] Trustee Luckham: is uh how the consultation with uh staff has been going and were there any issues and then

[0:06:11] Trustee Luckham: your answer is um as stated um

[0:06:17] Trustee Middleton: laurie would that be does do you follow that as far as

[0:06:20] Trustee Middleton: inserting the question from posed by uh uh uh chair luckham or trustee luckham in this case

[0:06:27] Trustee Middleton: um you might mean a bit of wordsmithing with the answer but does does that make sense to add as a

[0:06:33] Trustee Middleton: correction or an an amendment i should say yes

[0:06:36] Voice 1: absolutely would you like me to credit trustee

[0:06:39] Voice 1: luckham with the question sure

[0:06:41] Trustee Middleton: yeah if if we can have everyone agree to that then i think you could

[0:06:47] Trustee Middleton: just probably issue revised minutes without um our further having to comment on them but um

[0:06:54] Trustee Luckham: yeah you would just adopt them as amended um

[0:06:59] Trustee Middleton: any any before i ask for adoption any any further

[0:07:05] Trustee Middleton: comments on the minutes okay can i have a motion then to adopt these minutes as amended

[0:07:12] Trustee Middleton: it okay okay and the seconder i'll

[0:07:17] Voice 8: second it uh

[0:07:19] Trustee Middleton: okay i will say case i think uh and then um

[0:07:26] Trustee Middleton: okay great thank you um that that's uh uh oh i'm sorry i missed the vote the vote on that please

[0:07:34] Trustee Middleton: all in favor okay that carries thank you um okay

[0:07:45] Voice 11: uh

[0:07:49] Trustee Middleton: the resolutions without minutes are included

[0:07:51] Trustee Middleton: included in the package for your, your information. And the switch between files here sorry.

[0:08:05] Trustee Middleton: And any questions on the follow up action list is that is that your hand up.

[0:08:10] Trustee Middleton: Peter.

[0:08:12] Trustee Luckham: Oh sorry I'll lower my hand.

[0:08:14] Trustee Middleton: That's okay. Yeah.

[0:08:15] Trustee Middleton: Yeah. OK, so we'll receive that, obviously, for information as normal, which moves us now to our business items.

[0:08:28] Trustee Middleton: So 4.1 is the work plan delivery revised timeline.

[0:08:35] Trustee Middleton: I think it actually is in accord with our original timeline, but we revised it way back, I guess, in May.

[0:08:42] Trustee Middleton: But this is sort of the, shall we say, the end of the project in terms of what are we looking at in terms of delivery of a final report.

[0:08:50] Trustee Middleton: And so there is a brief attachment to that effect on page six of the final page, actually, page six of the agenda package.

[0:09:07] Trustee Middleton: package so did Charles did you want to speak to that or is this self-explanatory and you'd rather

[0:09:12] Trustee Middleton: we give comment um how would you like to proceed

[0:09:14] Voice 14: I'll just say a few uh a few comments uh like you

[0:09:19] Voice 14: said uh you know we we put a time work plan together and I think it was May the 10th and

[0:09:25] Voice 14: then we've proceeded and we've kept the select committee informed of where we were from a timing

[0:09:31] Voice 14: point of view you know especially as we went through the uh you know through the interview

[0:09:35] Voice 14: interview processes and the uh the challenges of getting through all the trustees and people

[0:09:41] Voice 14: through uh you know over the summer um you know we you know uh we've completed and then MF made

[0:09:48] Voice 14: a presentation in September you know describing uh kind of a summary of you know the key themes

[0:09:54] Voice 14: of discuss of you know dealing with all of the trustees except one uh a little sidebar on that

[0:10:01] Voice 14: We're still trying to get Trustee Scott Colburn to come to the table.

[0:10:06] Voice 14: We've been unsuccessful with that, but we'll continue to persist in that regard.

[0:10:13] Voice 14: But we have, other than that, all 25, the other 25 trustees have been interviewed.

[0:10:18] Voice 14: You know, since then, we've been actively engaged, you know, moving on to the management

[0:10:25] Voice 14: management of the trust council and uh and as we'll do today as we've uh completed uh interviewing

[0:10:33] Voice 14: uh all but you know one or two people on the uh land use planning side and eric's going to give a

[0:10:40] Voice 14: a summary of uh you know some of the key themes that we've learned in that exercise now let me

[0:10:47] Voice 14: stress again having now that we've uh interviewed uh the all of the regional planners and the

[0:10:53] Voice 14: the director of planning and some of the planners and CRD planners and bylaw enforcement officers

[0:11:01] Voice 14: and others, we've had nothing but positive cooperation from the Island Trust staff.

[0:11:08] Voice 14: They've been polite and forthcoming and insightful.

[0:11:12] Voice 14: And so we're very pleased by all of those interviews.

[0:11:17] Voice 14: interviews um we're now we're now uh over the next uh now that you know eric's going to continue

[0:11:26] Voice 14: working with the rest of us on you know where we go with recommendations but this is just a

[0:11:31] Voice 14: summary view um of themes uh we're also you know going we still have a a couple of um managers

[0:11:40] Voice 14: inside the trust to interview,

[0:11:44] Voice 14: including Claire and notably Claire and Russ.

[0:11:47] Voice 14: We plan to interview a couple of the two to three CAOs

[0:11:52] Voice 14: and Russ is helping us with the province.

[0:11:57] Voice 14: And we don't have our interviews with the province yet,

[0:12:00] Voice 14: but we think the province interviews

[0:12:01] Voice 14: are very, very important.

[0:12:04] Voice 14: And, but, you know, we're looking forward

[0:12:07] Voice 14: to working with Russ to, you know,

[0:12:09] Voice 14: setting up the interviews with the uh you know the provincial officials so uh so that's you know

[0:12:16] Voice 14: the summary of where we're at we have our heads down to finish up you know most of the interviews

[0:12:21] Voice 14: over the next two months and we'll report back in in the new year uh we've identified the date

[0:12:29] Voice 14: being january the 10th because the you know given where new year's is the monday after is a holiday

[0:12:35] Voice 14: the day so we move that to the 10th and uh and give you again some themes and what we learned

[0:12:42] Voice 14: from the final interviews and uh throughout this entire process we're working on our uh our report

[0:12:48] Voice 14: and our recommendations but we won't be bringing forward our recommendations until we deliver a

[0:12:54] Voice 14: final report and our final report will be at the february 7th meeting which according to your

[0:13:00] Voice 14: schedules and times as we've discussed before you know gives you sufficient time to uh you

[0:13:06] Voice 14: know manage your internal processes of moving the final report through whatever processes you have

[0:13:12] Voice 14: whether to the executive committee or directly to the full uh the full council that's none of

[0:13:16] Voice 14: our concern but you'll have your report and uh and uh and we'll be available you know most likely on

[0:13:25] Voice 14: on Zoom to make representation on the final report

[0:13:30] Voice 14: at whichever day during the March trustee meetings

[0:13:34] Voice 14: to the council meetings that you wish.

[0:13:37] Voice 14: So that's the core summary.

[0:13:39] Voice 14: That's where we are.

[0:13:40] Voice 14: I think we're in line with our earlier discussions

[0:13:42] Voice 14: with the select committee.

[0:13:44] Voice 14: And I just thought we needed to revise this

[0:13:48] Voice 14: so we're all on the same page

[0:13:50] Voice 14: from a management communications point of view

[0:13:53] Voice 14: and you know where we are in this process.

[0:13:55] Voice 14: So thank you very much.

[0:13:56] Voice 14: And if anybody has any questions, please bring them forward.

[0:14:01] Trustee Middleton: Please.

[0:14:03] Trustee Middleton: Thank you very much.

[0:14:05] Trustee Middleton: I'll start with Trustee Cahill and followed by our CEO, Russ Hudson-Pillerin, and Vice Chair Lange-Reis, please.

[0:14:17] Voice 9: Charles, I thank you very much for the update.

[0:14:20] Voice 9: And I'm looking at the final report tabled with Select Committee February the 7th.

[0:14:26] Voice 9: will that be as our previous meetings have been an open and recorded meeting well

[0:14:33] Voice 14: that's not my

[0:14:35] Voice 14: call uh your processes are what they are uh we're open to whatever you want uh you know we think the

[0:14:42] Voice 14: uh that's up to you we don't have a

[0:14:45] Voice 14: point of view we don't have a point of view on that that's up to

[0:14:48] Voice 14: you but this will be a final report we don't tend our intention is not to engage in an iterative

[0:14:55] Voice 14: of iterative process with respect to the recommendations.

[0:15:00] Voice 14: We plan to table our recommendations and our findings

[0:15:04] Voice 14: and then have your internal process work themselves out.

[0:15:12] Voice 9: All right, thank you for that, Charles.

[0:15:14] Voice 9: And Chair, I guess that will be a subject of discussion

[0:15:17] Voice 9: because that would put the report actually out

[0:15:22] Voice 9: out in the public domain February the 7th

[0:15:25] Voice 9: if our meetings are conducted as normal.

[0:15:28] Voice 7: Thank you.

[0:15:33] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[0:15:34] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, I'm sure we'll come back to that.

[0:15:35] Trustee Middleton: Now, CA Wilson-Piller, please.

[0:15:38] Trustee Middleton: I defer to the elected officials and

[0:15:41] Voice 10: come in at the end.

[0:15:42] Voice 10: So I can defer to Vice-Chair Langevries for now,

[0:15:44] Voice 10: if that's okay.

[0:15:46] Trustee Middleton: Sure, yeah, no problem.

[0:15:47] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[0:15:48] Trustee Middleton: And Vice-Chair Langevries, please.

[0:15:50] Voice 8: Yeah, thank you for the report.

[0:15:52] Voice 8: I just had one question.

[0:15:53] Voice 8: We seem to have advanced the final report

[0:15:55] Voice 8: to March whereas in the follow-up action list we we cite April of 2022 so it's that it looks like

[0:16:04] Voice 8: we've advanced it or brought it in earlier so that's that because that was I remember recalling

[0:16:12] Voice 8: that we pushed it to April and now it's back to March so that's yeah so the case good okay thank

[0:16:19] Voice 8: you i just want to confirm that yeah

[0:16:21] Voice 14: i i want to confirm that because uh you know we we'll have it

[0:16:27] Voice 14: done by then yeah we're continuing to work on this so uh this gives the uh the we tried to make this

[0:16:34] Voice 14: uh to work inside of the timetable around the um around the trust council meetings but uh when you

[0:16:42] Voice 14: actually what you do with it isn't really we don't control that that's up to you um

[0:16:52] Trustee Middleton: If I could just add to further comment before Tracey Loughin speaks, that was indeed our intent, that there would be an opportunity for a presentation, ideally at the Trust Council meeting in March.

[0:17:04] Trustee Middleton: The contract itself does in fact go until April, but our hope was that the presentation would be, or our desire was that the presentation would be in March with some, we would have to work this detail out, I think,

[0:17:19] Trustee Middleton: But the idea that we have one of the consultants present who can explain or provide additional detail, perhaps, to some of the findings or the recommendations in their report.

[0:17:32] Trustee Middleton: So thank you. And yeah, Trustee Luckman, please.

[0:17:44] Trustee Middleton: I don't know if you heard you, sir.

[0:17:46] Trustee Middleton: Peter, would you like the floor? Do you have a comment or a question?

[0:17:56] Trustee Middleton: Maybe Peter doesn't have audio right now.

[0:18:00] Trustee Middleton: Yes, I do.

[0:18:02] Trustee Middleton: Oh, there you go. Okay.

[0:18:03] Trustee Middleton: Okay. Yeah, please go ahead, Peter.

[0:18:06] Trustee Middleton: Am I here?

[0:18:08] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, we can hear you.

[0:18:14] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, okay.

[0:18:16] Trustee Luckham: So I just had a question with regard to this.

[0:18:21] Trustee Luckham: I just wanted to see clarity from Charles Kelly there.

[0:18:23] Trustee Luckham: I think that he was going to, as you've been reporting in the ongoing findings in the interviews with the trustees and now with staff, that you will be reports that will be finally reported in the final report will be your recommendations.

[0:18:52] Trustee Luckham: And that is not a topic of discussion with the select committee.

[0:18:59] Trustee Luckham: I just want some clarity around what that means, discussion of findings with select committee, and if my interpretation is correct or not.

[0:19:06] Trustee Luckham: The

[0:19:08] Voice 14: final report in February will delineate our findings from the various phases of the project, including the desk research phase and the interviews and our internal collaborative analysis of our assessment of what are the key governance issues

[0:19:32] Voice 14: and what might be the opportunities for the Trust Council and Islands Trust Management

[0:19:41] Voice 14: to think about how they might improve their governance processes

[0:19:47] Voice 14: and perhaps modernize how you operate in some fashion or another.

[0:19:55] Voice 14: But, you know, so we'll present that then.

[0:19:59] Voice 14: We'll have some discussion of where we're going with this from an oral perspective,

[0:20:04] Voice 14: not from a written perspective on January the 10th, you know, so you know where we're going.

[0:20:11] Voice 14: But on the other hand, you know, we think that we just will table everything on February the 7th.

[0:20:22] Voice 14: And this is an extension from the original contract.

[0:20:25] Voice 14: The original contract was to end sometime around in December.

[0:20:28] Voice 14: So we're extending this out a couple of months.

[0:20:32] Trustee Luckham: Understood. Yeah. And so it's a reporting out of findings more so than a discussion, because clearly we want to hear your findings of what you've discovered in the process, as opposed to what it is that committee members may think with respect to that.

[0:20:54] Trustee Luckham: the

[0:20:56] Voice 14: committee members will have an opportunity to discuss the findings when we table the full report

[0:21:02] Voice 14: and uh and and we'll listen to what they have to say and uh but uh and it's

[0:21:09] Voice 14: and how you manage to uh uh process this inside of your own internal processes is not our concern

[0:21:16] Voice 14: okay

[0:21:18] Trustee Luckham: thank you sir all

[0:21:23] Voice 7: right trustee critchley please yes

[0:21:29] Trustee Critchley: thank you um just wondering about the

[0:21:33] Trustee Critchley: utility of a meeting uh particularly the february 7th meeting when the final report would be tabled

[0:21:42] Trustee Critchley: with this committee um it was not contemplated by me that we would be seeking to have you

[0:21:52] Trustee Critchley: amend your report in any way you know that we wouldn't be receiving a draft report which we

[0:21:57] Trustee Critchley: would then encouraging encourage you to modify rather that we would just receive it and and

[0:22:04] Trustee Critchley: i think from what you have said uh mr kelly that that's your intention as well you don't

[0:22:10] Trustee Critchley: you put it rather diplomatically perhaps in talking about you don't

[0:22:14] Trustee Critchley: foresee an iterative process there so i'm wondering um in light of the way in which

[0:22:22] Trustee Critchley: the committee was structured uh and and uh empowered by trust council and and this report

[0:22:30] Trustee Critchley: being trust council's report um this is maybe more for the chair and for discussion about

[0:22:37] Trustee Critchley: about whether there is utility and indeed whether there is propriety in us, the committee,

[0:22:47] Trustee Critchley: receiving the report in advance of Trust Council.

[0:22:50] Trustee Critchley: I'm thinking that maybe it would be just better if the consultants filed the report with Trust Council

[0:23:01] Trustee Critchley: through, I don't know, executive committee possibly, or to CAO and to the committee members,

[0:23:11] Trustee Critchley: but not in terms of a formal committee meeting being assembled for that purpose.

[0:23:18] Trustee Critchley: And then it is released to all trustees at the same time, and the committee members don't

[0:23:25] Trustee Critchley: have any prior knowledge of that.

[0:23:27] Trustee Critchley: that. Anyway, that's my feeling. I'm thinking that that would probably be the better route

[0:23:34] Trustee Critchley: to go, especially in view of some people's concerns that perhaps the committee would be

[0:23:39] Trustee Critchley: steering the direction of the report. I think it would be much more difficult to draw that

[0:23:46] Trustee Critchley: inference if we were to not see it before anybody else saw it. Those are my thoughts. Thank you.

[0:23:54] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Trustee Kitchley. Trustee Brent, please.

[0:24:00] Voice 4: Hi. Yeah. Certainly appreciate what Trustee Critchley is saying, but I view something like that as a real opportunity to, you know, there might be parts of the report that are difficult to interpret.

[0:24:13] Voice 4: So it's not as though one modifies consultants' reports, at least I hope not.

[0:24:21] Voice 4: And any good consultant would basically not want anything other than clarification.

[0:24:26] Voice 4: But clarification is sometimes important.

[0:24:30] Voice 4: And so I see that as a good role for the select committee.

[0:24:34] Voice 4: We've shepherded this through from the beginning.

[0:24:38] Voice 4: That's really what our job has been.

[0:24:40] Voice 4: and so if there's some stuff that's a little confusing or we don't uh it's not totally clear

[0:24:45] Voice 4: to us um that would be the time when we would at least ask those questions and there might be the

[0:24:52] Voice 4: opportunity for a little bit of clarification in the report so i do think the the meeting is

[0:24:59] Voice 4: important and uh for that reason not to modify it um in terms of changing the intent but

[0:25:06] Voice 4: but opportunity to clarify, thanks.

[0:25:11] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Trustee Brent.

[0:25:12] Trustee Middleton: Next, we have Vice Chair Langevries

[0:25:14] Trustee Middleton: followed by Trustee Peterson and Trustee Kahle has this.

[0:25:17] Trustee Middleton: Are you okay, CAO Huston-Pillar,

[0:25:19] Trustee Middleton: if we hear from Trustee Kahle a second time

[0:25:22] Trustee Middleton: before you speak, okay.

[0:25:23] Trustee Middleton: Oh, no, I insist.

[0:25:24] Trustee Middleton: Okay.

[0:25:26] Trustee Middleton: I'm good.

[0:25:27] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, okay, so Vice Chair Langevries, please.

[0:25:31] Voice 8: Okay, yeah, I can certainly understand

[0:25:33] Voice 8: Trustee Christie's concerns,

[0:25:34] Voice 8: And I also hear what Trustee Brent is saying.

[0:25:37] Voice 8: I mean, this is going to be, as far as I can see, this is going to be an open meeting.

[0:25:41] Voice 8: So for us to receive the report and have some side comments about clarification, I think would be appropriate as long as people can listen in and hear what was actually said.

[0:25:52] Voice 8: Because I know there is a concern out there for some that we may manipulate the report with a hidden agenda.

[0:25:59] Voice 8: And that's not the case.

[0:26:00] Voice 8: So I'm fine with it being open meeting and having some general discussion, but not directing them to change the tenor of the report.

[0:26:16] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Vice-Chair Langerhuis.

[0:26:18] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Peterson, please.

[0:26:22] Voice 3: Yeah, being new to the process, I guess Trustee Langerhuis said a lot of what I was going to say,

[0:26:29] Voice 3: but back to Trustee Cayley's question about whether that would be an open public meeting.

[0:26:35] Voice 3: I think as long as that is, then there isn't danger of perception of the committee secretly receiving the report or anything like that.

[0:26:47] Voice 3: So as long as that meeting is open, I don't think there should be a perception problem.

[0:26:50] Voice 3: Just my thoughts.

[0:26:53] Trustee Middleton: Thank you very much. Trustee Keogh, please.

[0:26:55] Voice 9: Yes, thank you. I regard this rather like a sub-municipal public meeting.

[0:26:59] Voice 9: We're here to receive the report, and our questions are normally not a matter of debate or opinion, but merely that of clarification, because as a steering group, I think that's a legitimate reason to ask, purely for the purpose of clarification, certainly not the purpose of debate or opinion.

[0:27:25] Voice 9: Thank

[0:27:28] Trustee Middleton: you. Before we hear from our CEO, any further comment? Maybe I would, just to be fair, so I'm speaking before the CEO, say, yeah, that we have basically run a process whereby we've contracted independent professional individuals to have a look at our organization and make recommendations.

[0:27:56] Trustee Middleton: They've not interviewed us except insofar as interviewing all trustees, and they have followed their own instincts and professional views in terms of who subsequently they talked to.

[0:28:10] Trustee Middleton: There was no, by purpose, there was no public engagement.

[0:28:15] Trustee Middleton: And so I think keeping the spirit of discussion for clarification is important and entirely acceptable with an open meeting.

[0:28:28] Trustee Middleton: So that's my comment.

[0:28:31] Trustee Middleton: So over to you, CEO Hudson-Piller, please.

[0:28:34] Voice 10: Okay, thanks very much.

[0:28:35] Voice 10: And good afternoon to all of you.

[0:28:37] Voice 10: Coming to you from Lekwungen speaking territory here in the Victoria office.

[0:28:41] Voice 10: office. Just a matter of housekeeping at the outset. This, I think, is a revision from what

[0:28:48] Voice 10: I understand was the May timeline, and any change is interior to the process, not to the end dates.

[0:28:57] Voice 10: So I just recommend that you as a group receive this and vote on as acceptance as the revised

[0:29:04] Voice 10: work plan as of November 1st, just as a matter of housekeeping for the select committee so that

[0:29:09] Voice 10: but this becomes the timeline at hand.

[0:29:13] Voice 10: So that's the first thing.

[0:29:14] Voice 10: So that's just a matter of business, I would think.

[0:29:16] Voice 10: And the second is just around the notion

[0:29:19] Voice 10: of in-camera or public meeting.

[0:29:22] Voice 10: I can't conceive of a scenario under the Charter

[0:29:25] Voice 10: where the receipt of the work would be an in-camera matter.

[0:29:30] Voice 10: So I wouldn't be too concerned about that.

[0:29:34] Voice 10: I'm almost certain it would be part

[0:29:35] Voice 10: of just a regular public meeting.

[0:29:38] Voice 10: Thank you very much.

[0:29:42] Trustee Middleton: Great.

[0:29:42] Trustee Middleton: Thank you very much for that.

[0:29:45] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Brent?

[0:29:49] Voice 4: Clarity.

[0:29:50] Voice 4: So I believe CAO Hudson-Peller mentioned something about the timeline being May, and I don't

[0:29:58] Voice 4: recall that.

[0:30:00] Voice 4: because i thought everything was going to be wrapped up by april did i miss did i miss here

[0:30:04] Voice 4: uh you cao hotzenfeller

[0:30:06] Voice 10: no i there's always the chance i've misspoken so that that's always a

[0:30:12] Voice 10: possibility but this is all i'm pointing out is this we had the original timeline then we had an

[0:30:17] Voice 10: amendment to the timeline and this i think is an amendment to that timeline however minor

[0:30:22] Voice 10: and it's just appropriate for the committee to acknowledge that by receiving this

[0:30:26] Voice 10: and saying this is our new timeline so so we're just we all know where we're at that's my point

[0:30:32] Trustee Middleton: got

[0:30:33] Voice 4: it thanks um

[0:30:36] Trustee Middleton: to to that end i wanted just to conclude that housekeeping matter if we could

[0:30:41] Trustee Middleton: just have a motion to accept and endorse the uh uh revised timeline as presented um there's one

[0:30:47] Trustee Middleton: issue that i don't know that staff will have checked out the viability of those dates for

[0:30:52] Trustee Middleton: select committee meeting because these are new newly proposed dates um so maybe i could take

[0:30:59] Trustee Middleton: your guidance ceo on what what you know if there's a

[0:31:03] Trustee Middleton: conflict on those dates if we can

[0:31:05] Trustee Middleton: have just i mean i'm sure you know looking right

[0:31:10] Trustee Middleton: now i'll

[0:31:12] Voice 4: move the timeline and right now and if

[0:31:14] Voice 4: we have to revise it again we'll revise it again i'll

[0:31:18] Voice 8: second it okay

[0:31:21] Trustee Middleton: um do you want us to wait for

[0:31:24] Trustee Middleton: for your review there of the schedule Russ or I

[0:31:27] Voice 10: think I think it looks pretty good I mean usually

[0:31:29] Voice 10: everything funnels through the trust council agenda process and I think that timeline works

[0:31:36] Voice 10: and those things all go through executive committee and get put on the trust council

[0:31:41] Voice 10: agenda as we're well aware so to my reading I'd say you're with confidence you can say that these

[0:31:48] Voice 10: are the these dates would work and we'll come back to you if there's some challenge there but

[0:31:54] Voice 10: but it would likely be a lengthening,

[0:31:55] Voice 10: not a constricting of the agenda time.

[0:31:57] Trustee Middleton: Thanks.

[0:31:58] Trustee Middleton: Okay.

[0:31:59] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[0:32:00] Trustee Middleton: So we've have, did you get who made the motion

[0:32:03] Trustee Middleton: and who seconded, Laurie?

[0:32:04] Trustee Middleton: I didn't know.

[0:32:06] Voice 1: No, there was a bit of jumping around there.

[0:32:08] Voice 1: I wasn't sure if you were receiving something

[0:32:10] Voice 1: or making a motion

[0:32:11] Voice 1: for, go ahead.

[0:32:13] Voice 4: Trustee Brent made the motion.

[0:32:16] Voice 1: What was the motion?

[0:32:18] Voice 4: To receive the timeline as amended.

[0:32:21] Voice 1: Thank you.

[0:32:22] Voice 4: And I seconded it.

[0:32:24] Voice 8: it thank you okay

[0:32:26] Trustee Middleton: thank you um and all those in favor all right great that carries thank you

[0:32:35] Trustee Middleton: um any further discussion on the timing and or uh uh trustee leckham i see your hand raised um

[0:32:46] Trustee Middleton: do you have a further comment yes

[0:32:50] Trustee Luckham: i actually have another question i apologize um and it was

[0:32:55] Trustee Luckham: was triggered by the remark, I think it was yourself, that there was no public engagement.

[0:33:02] Trustee Luckham: Clearly, we did engage with individuals in the public and or agencies or were about to

[0:33:11] Trustee Luckham: that were recommended by select committee members. And also, if I'm not mistaken,

[0:33:18] Trustee Luckham: I believe that trustees had an opportunity to make recommendations. So I certainly consider

[0:33:25] Trustee Luckham: public engagement. And my question stems from that because there are others in the public that have asked me how this process unfolded. And the focus, the pointed question is, is how did the consultants decide who to interview and how were those interviews conducted, i.e. by phone or Zoom or in person?

[0:33:51] Trustee Luckham: Because I also understand that I've heard from members of the public that there have already been meetings with members of the public.

[0:34:02] Trustee Luckham: and so just I think it would be helpful to assist the public in understanding the process

[0:34:11] Trustee Luckham: if we could see or understand what the criteria was and how that was measured

[0:34:21] Trustee Luckham: against those individuals that were recommended. I hope that's clear.

[0:34:29] Voice 14: Chairman Middle, I can answer that.

[0:34:31] Voice 14: chairman sure

[0:34:32] Trustee Middleton: thank you thank you miss kelly

[0:34:34] Voice 14: um you know we asked the uh individual trustees if

[0:34:38] Voice 14: they thought there was uh people who could add to our view and uh and when we when they gave us

[0:34:45] Voice 14: names we asked them to be very specific of what their experience was you know with the island

[0:34:51] Voice 14: trust and why they thought they might add some value to it this was not enough and then we would

[0:34:57] Voice 14: determine based on where we were going, you know, with respect to, you know, what we'd learn from

[0:35:03] Voice 14: the counselors and our research and other things, you know, what they might be able to add of value.

[0:35:10] Voice 14: You know, we weren't talking to people just because they wanted to be talked to or just because a

[0:35:16] Voice 14: counselor recommended them. You know, we had very limited time and very limited resources,

[0:35:23] Voice 14: So we had to be very strategic in determining, you know, who might add some very specific value, you know, based on direct experience.

[0:35:32] Voice 14: We weren't interested in people's opinions that weren't based on experience, period.

[0:35:39] Voice 14: So, and we had to be very selective because this is a very small budget to accomplish a very large task.

[0:35:45] Voice 14: So, and at no time, we were ever going to open this process up to anybody and everybody who wants to be able to talk to us.

[0:35:53] Voice 14: the answer to that was a flat no and

[0:35:59] Trustee Middleton: i assume uh charles that the methodology and the

[0:36:04] Trustee Middleton: a kind of an elaboration of what you've just said will of course be um contained within the

[0:36:09] Trustee Middleton: report for um the public to read yes

[0:36:13] Voice 14: it will and it was also specified in in uh information sent

[0:36:17] Voice 14: to the individual counselors so this the trustees got that they got uh very specific terms with

[0:36:25] Voice 14: with respect to any recommendations they had to make.

[0:36:29] Voice 14: We didn't really, okay, just so that's clear.

[0:36:34] Trustee Middleton: Okay, thank you, and I see Trustee Cahill's hand up,

[0:36:37] Trustee Middleton: followed by Chair Langeres.

[0:36:39] Voice 9: Yes, I just want to point out that exactly

[0:36:42] Voice 9: as has just been said by Charles,

[0:36:44] Voice 9: precisely mirrors the instructions we got

[0:36:48] Voice 9: with our written questions.

[0:36:50] Voice 9: So I find the approach entirely consistent

[0:36:54] Voice 9: consistent with the advice we received from the very beginning. So I see the approach to be

[0:37:00] Voice 9: totally in order and consistent. In fact, was it reported differently? I would be surprised.

[0:37:06] Voice 9: Thank you.

[0:37:09] Trustee Middleton: Thank you. Vice Chair Lundgren, please.

[0:37:12] Voice 8: Yeah, I just wanted to append to what

[0:37:14] Voice 8: Charles Kelly said, which is not just trustees, but also staff. The CEO also put forward names

[0:37:20] Voice 8: names of staff. So it wasn't just trustees directing who would be interviewed. And I

[0:37:26] Voice 8: understand that for government officials, the CEO also put forward names. So it was broader than

[0:37:32] Voice 8: just trustees putting forward names. Yeah,

[0:37:36] Voice 14: that's correct. And those names provided by

[0:37:40] Voice 14: Russ were very helpful because he identified people who had experience and knowledge that

[0:37:47] Voice 14: would add to our report and we really appreciate the input and advice of uh of cao uh russ thank

[0:37:59] Trustee Middleton: you um yes and i think just uh peter getting back to your question i think we've probably all of us

[0:38:07] Trustee Middleton: have been asked when's our opportunity to speak uh to the consultants and of course i guess that

[0:38:14] Trustee Middleton: was my meaning when they said that we we were not engaging in a comprehensive engagement with the

[0:38:20] Trustee Middleton: stakeholders in the trust area it may be in fact that the um consultants recommend there be an

[0:38:27] Trustee Middleton: engagement on on what the contents of their report are that i don't know that it may not be but that

[0:38:33] Trustee Middleton: would be a subsequent um phase shall we say that the pleasure of the trust council would be a

[0:38:40] Trustee Middleton: broader and more comprehensive public engagement if that was uh if that was part of your question

[0:38:50] Trustee Luckham: No, that was not part of the question, but I assume that any change to the Island of

[0:38:55] Trustee Luckham: Stress would require public engagement.

[0:38:57] Trustee Luckham: Anyway, that's for future decisions.

[0:39:02] Trustee Middleton: Okay, great.

[0:39:03] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[0:39:03] Trustee Middleton: Any other comments before we move to the next item in the agenda?

[0:39:24] Trustee Middleton: Okay, great.

[0:39:25] Trustee Middleton: So now, oops.

[0:39:26] Trustee Middleton: Oh, yeah.

[0:39:27] Trustee Middleton: No.

[0:39:27] Trustee Middleton: Good.

[0:39:27] Trustee Middleton: We're good.

[0:39:30] Trustee Middleton: The next item, 4.2, would be themes from the interviews of verbal update.

[0:39:35] Trustee Middleton: date. So over to you, Charles, if you would be introduced, you're either speaking yourself or

[0:39:39] Trustee Middleton: introducing your team, I'll turn the floor to you.

[0:39:44] Voice 14: As I said earlier, you know, we've interviewed,

[0:39:47] Voice 14: you know, all of the planning managers and the, as well as the director of planning,

[0:39:53] Voice 14: some consultants and some CRD people and the bylaw manager amongst others. And we have just a, you

[0:40:00] Voice 14: know one or two more uh people to add but i think we really have a pretty good overview and insight

[0:40:07] Voice 14: into the uh you know into the role of and the uh the work and the how they how they're managed of

[0:40:14] Voice 14: the uh the regional planners so i'll turn this over to our most able and experienced uh land use

[0:40:22] Voice 14: planning expert in Eric Vance. And also, you know, Jim Roach may intervene from time to time

[0:40:30] Voice 14: because Jim participated in all these interviews as I did myself. So, Eric, you know, I'll leave

[0:40:36] Voice 14: this over to you and then we'll take whatever questions you may have to that. So, Eric,

[0:40:41] Voice 14: floor is yours.

[0:40:42] Voice 5: All right. Thank you, Charles. And good afternoon, all. Yeah, as Charles mentioned,

[0:40:50] Voice 5: a lot of the pertinent interviews to local planning have been completed there's a few

[0:40:58] Voice 5: that remain we still need to talk to Bowen Island I need to talk to the agricultural land commission

[0:41:04] Voice 5: and of course we're still waiting to to have some interviews with municipal affairs officials but

[0:41:12] Voice 5: but all the local planning service staff have been interviewed.

[0:41:18] Voice 5: I really want to emphasize how helpful and generous with their time they all were.

[0:41:26] Voice 5: What I found as the interviews proceeded, there were some common themes that started to emerge,

[0:41:34] Voice 5: but each one brought forward some new things, some thought-provoking things

[0:41:38] Voice 5: that I hadn't heard from some of the other interviews.

[0:41:41] Voice 5: views so uh they were all of value and i do have to acknowledge my colleagues jim and charles for

[0:41:48] Voice 5: being a part of those uh i uh i'd imagine for the first couple their heads were spinning you

[0:41:55] Voice 5: get planners together and we start talking about uh you know fars and uh dps and dvps and bps and

[0:42:05] Voice 5: all that and uh trying to figure out planning jargon it's never easy but uh it was helpful

[0:42:10] Voice 5: to have them in on those interviews uh uh certainly so uh the local planning service

[0:42:16] Voice 5: staff that that that's done uh we've largely reviewed the uh planning service documentation

[0:42:23] Voice 5: that we want to review but it's never ending and what i found with some of the interviews and some

[0:42:30] Voice 5: of the observations it's uh caused me to go back and look at something else and i'd imagine that

[0:42:35] Voice 5: continues so while the documentation review is largely done there's always new things emerging

[0:42:43] Voice 5: so what i'm going to cover off here is is some of the key topic areas that we're starting to

[0:42:49] Voice 5: organize things around but i want to emphasize what i'm talking about here there's topics that

[0:42:55] Voice 5: are broader in scope than just local planning services they certainly involve it but it's not

[0:43:02] Voice 5: not just local planning services related,

[0:43:05] Voice 5: reconciliation, governance, advocacy, et cetera.

[0:43:10] Voice 5: So I'm not covering those topics off specifically this afternoon

[0:43:15] Voice 5: as part of what I'm going to discuss here,

[0:43:17] Voice 5: but they are not forgotten,

[0:43:18] Voice 5: but they're much broader than simply local planning services.

[0:43:22] Voice 5: So to date, I've organized things into 11 key topic areas.

[0:43:28] Voice 5: That may change.

[0:43:29] Voice 5: There may be one or two more that emerge,

[0:43:31] Voice 5: merge but my own planning brain I have to start to organize things so this is where I'm going but

[0:43:37] Voice 5: as it uh continues on as I said there may be uh some things adjusted uh number one theme and this

[0:43:44] Voice 5: is certainly something that was asked for in the uh terms of reference in the RFP uh official

[0:43:50] Voice 5: community plans the number of official community plans which you currently have which are over 20

[0:43:56] Voice 5: and the content of those official community plans which varies to some degree between ocps

[0:44:04] Voice 5: a number of the ocps are also dated so um a lot of thought and discussion going into that what we

[0:44:13] Voice 5: do about it uh land use bylaws as you know they flow from the ocps so uh the number and the

[0:44:21] Voice 5: the content of the land use uh bylaws which also varies considerably and in a number of cases are

[0:44:27] Voice 5: also uh fairly dated it's like okay fine we know that what are you doing about it and and that's

[0:44:33] Voice 5: what we're working on now and then the enforcement bylaws which uh flow out of the land use bylaws

[0:44:39] Voice 5: that's about the number it's not about the really the content of the enforcement bylaws because they

[0:44:45] Voice 5: really don't vary very much uh you know whether it's island trust or anywhere else i mean

[0:44:50] Voice 5: enforcement bylaws are what they are so the content's not really the issue it's it's the

[0:44:55] Voice 5: number of enforcement bylaws model bylaws we've heard a lot about relevance application

[0:45:07] Voice 5: and so on so we'll certainly be covering off the model bylaw topic projects another huge area

[0:45:15] Voice 5: The number of projects, planning projects that are underway, over 50, the relevance of those projects, the benefits of those projects.

[0:45:25] Voice 5: So that'll consume a fairly significant piece of the review.

[0:45:31] Voice 5: The whole area of development applications, the processes you have in place, the approvals, fees, things like that.

[0:45:42] Voice 5: So that's a topic area.

[0:45:45] Voice 5: Staff reports, everybody's favorite topic.

[0:45:48] Voice 5: We've heard a number of comments from both the trustees

[0:45:52] Voice 5: and staff about staff reports

[0:45:55] Voice 5: and how they may be improved for everybody's sake.

[0:45:59] Voice 5: And so we'll be talking about that.

[0:46:01] Voice 5: Staffing, the organization,

[0:46:04] Voice 5: you currently have the three offices,

[0:46:07] Voice 5: Salt Spring and the North office and the South office.

[0:46:10] Voice 5: and then of course bylaws but the organization of local planning services the amount and type

[0:46:18] Voice 5: of resources that are being applied to local planning services and the allocation of those

[0:46:24] Voice 5: resources public consultation which we're just talking about a few minutes ago the methods that

[0:46:30] Voice 5: are being used for public consultation 10th area is a relationship with their other agencies and

[0:46:37] Voice 5: groups there's the agricultural land commission the regional districts municipal affairs

[0:46:43] Voice 5: environment and so on and we've heard a lot from local planning staff on that issue so that's

[0:46:52] Voice 5: going to be a fairly significant area and then performance measures and that one is not just

[0:46:58] Voice 5: specific to local planning services this is something we'll be discussing more broadly but

[0:47:03] Voice 5: But certainly within local planning services, one of the things we'll be providing some findings and recommendations on are performance measures.

[0:47:12] Voice 5: And that, in part, came out of the terms of reference for the RFP as well.

[0:47:18] Voice 5: So I know you're going, come on, Vance, give us some of the juicy tidbits here.

[0:47:22] Voice 5: Tell us what you're thinking and where this is going.

[0:47:24] Voice 5: But as I said, there's still some interviews to be completed.

[0:47:29] Voice 5: Plus, I need to consult with my colleagues on this.

[0:47:31] Voice 5: I have ideas they have ideas we have to reconcile and so on so we don't want to start piecemeal

[0:47:38] Voice 5: uh providing or sharing findings and recommendations which uh are going to evolve in the next couple of

[0:47:45] Voice 5: months so uh that's my overview uh happy to answer any uh questions or uh hear any comments you may

[0:47:52] Voice 5: have on that great

[0:47:58] Trustee Middleton: thank you very much eric um and um as per your request though if there are any um

[0:48:06] Trustee Middleton: any questions or comments obviously we'll hear much more detailed through through the report

[0:48:11] Trustee Middleton: but i appreciate that the um the signposting or guiding as to what what some of the early

[0:48:16] Trustee Middleton: findings were um can't hear you chair middleton uh vice chair long race and then followed by um

[0:48:33] Trustee Middleton: our CEO currently have their hands up.

[0:48:39] Voice 8: Yeah, I was just curious about beating agendas,

[0:48:43] Voice 8: the size of agendas and timing of agendas.

[0:48:46] Voice 8: If that was of interest to staff

[0:48:49] Voice 8: or any many comments about that.

[0:48:53] Voice 5: Through the chair, absolutely.

[0:48:55] Voice 5: I shorthanded when I said staff reports, yes, absolutely.

[0:48:59] Voice 5: Very good observation, yes, agendas overall.

[0:49:02] Voice 5: And again, that there's comments on that

[0:49:04] Voice 5: that only from not only from staff but a number of the trustees as well so yeah absolutely but

[0:49:12] Voice 5: that applies not just the local planning services which I appreciate take up a fair amount of your

[0:49:17] Voice 5: agenda but yeah it's broader than just LPS but certainly LPS is a big part of what you are seeing

[0:49:25] Voice 5: in your agenda packages.

[0:49:30] Trustee Middleton: Thank you and that's CEO Hudson Pella please.

[0:49:35] Voice 10: Oh thanks so thanks Eric

[0:49:37] Voice 10: Eric, you're probably seeing with interest like I am, and this will probably come out in our discussions later and given that there is there's some more work to be done.

[0:49:47] Voice 10: But the Bill 20 implications of Bill 26 and some efficiencies that may come out of the latest updates to the Local Government Act.

[0:49:56] Voice 10: we've made a few requests around legislative change at the islands trust that have landed

[0:50:00] Voice 10: and some regulatory change around development permit delegation of authority for development

[0:50:07] Voice 10: permits i just can't help but think that the bill 26 stuff and that might lend itself to some

[0:50:13] Voice 10: efficiencies as you're thinking through the planning service function in some way

[0:50:18] Voice 10: i'm not saying how or anything right now but it might be something to just um consider as you're

[0:50:24] Voice 10: working it through just because it's timely yes

[0:50:26] Voice 5: and thank you for the the chair to rest on that

[0:50:30] Voice 5: yes we're aware and we certainly agree you you've already uh made uh representations to to the

[0:50:37] Voice 5: province that uh like everywhere else in the province that uh development permits uh can be

[0:50:43] Voice 5: delegated or should be delegated to staff i mean some local governments put some limits on that if

[0:50:50] Voice 5: if it's under a certain amount, dollar value,

[0:50:52] Voice 5: or a certain type delegated to staff.

[0:50:55] Voice 5: In some cases, though, the boards or councils

[0:50:57] Voice 5: do want to see development permits.

[0:50:59] Voice 5: We would certainly concur with that.

[0:51:01] Voice 5: Yes, now we're seeing the development variance permits

[0:51:08] Voice 5: proposed to be delegated.

[0:51:09] Voice 5: And then I guess the really hot topic,

[0:51:12] Voice 5: which is the waiver of zoning public hearings,

[0:51:15] Voice 5: which is getting a lot of discussion,

[0:51:19] Voice 5: But yes, well, thank you. We'll be aware of that

[0:51:21] Voice 5: as we wade through what we're doing.

[0:51:30] Trustee Middleton: Great. Thank you. Very good question. Any further comment?

[0:51:39] Trustee Middleton: OK, well, with that, Mr. Vance, thank you very much for your update to us there.

[0:51:46] Trustee Middleton: And Mr. Kelly, is there any further comment or point you would care to make before we move on to a new business?

[0:51:58] Voice 14: No, I'm fine. I think Eric managed to cover the broad horizon of these long discussions with many planners.

[0:52:10] Voice 14: Again, I want to thank them all for their time and effort. They were terrific.

[0:52:20] Trustee Middleton: Great. Well, thank you very much for that, Mr. Kelly.

[0:52:24] Trustee Middleton: And with that, we'll thank you. And we will obviously, I think, was it January 10th?

[0:52:31] Trustee Middleton: I think we'll look forward to meeting next as a group with your preliminary themes.

[0:52:38] Trustee Middleton: And then I think that's it.

[0:52:44] Trustee Middleton: So I appreciate it.

[0:52:45] Trustee Middleton: Thank you very much.

[0:52:47] Voice 10: All right.

[0:52:48] Voice 10: So we're excused from the meeting, Mr. Chairman.

[0:52:51] Voice 10: oh

[0:52:53] Trustee Middleton: um by all means and unless uh uh uh mr uh or trustee luckham does there any um um points

[0:53:03] Trustee Middleton: in regards communications that you would feel be relevant for input from the um the consultants

[0:53:11] Trustee Middleton: that's our remaining item of business is the new item of business which is uh

[0:53:16] Trustee Middleton: communications otherwise we have our next meeting time and you're you're of course aware of it as

[0:53:20] Trustee Middleton: as you proposed the date, so.

[0:53:24] Trustee Luckham: Well, I think it would be appropriate

[0:53:25] Trustee Luckham: that Charles Kelly remain for the duration of the meeting.

[0:53:29] Trustee Luckham: It's up to him if he feels that his colleagues

[0:53:33] Trustee Luckham: don't need to attend.

[0:53:36] Voice 14: I'm happy to stay to the end of the meeting

[0:53:39] Voice 14: and Jim and Eric get on with your day.

[0:53:43] Voice 14: Thank you so much.

[0:53:44] Voice 5: Thank you very much, everybody.

[0:53:46] Voice 5: Thank you.

[0:53:48] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[0:53:51] Trustee Middleton: thank you um okay so yeah that so that concludes our uh our business items so we're now on to

[0:54:00] Trustee Middleton: new business um and uh simply entitled communications and i'll turn it over to

[0:54:07] Trustee Middleton: trustee luckham for introduction of of that item please sure

[0:54:12] Trustee Luckham: thank you um uh well recently

[0:54:15] Trustee Luckham: my attention was drawn to um a webinar that happened uh uh last week uh where chair middleton

[0:54:23] Trustee Luckham: you were a speaker uh quite possibly presumed by others to be representing the select committee

[0:54:31] Trustee Luckham: um there as chair um that's of course up to the interpretation of the public but that is uh

[0:54:38] Trustee Luckham: how that's possibly perceived. There were a couple of remarks by yourself, and I've heard

[0:54:46] Trustee Luckham: some other remarks as well, with respect to big changes are coming and are ahead of us.

[0:54:54] Trustee Luckham: And it strikes me that that's a conclusion that I am certainly not prepared to assume at this time.

[0:55:04] Trustee Luckham: Certainly, I am supportive of this process and very hopeful that there will be some recommendations

[0:55:09] Trustee Luckham: that will assist us in delivering on the Preserve and Protect mandate in a more effective way.

[0:55:17] Trustee Luckham: And it just, unfortunately, it's begged the question about whether or not there's a

[0:55:23] Trustee Luckham: conversation between the consultant and yourself and or other members of this committee outside

[0:55:29] Trustee Luckham: outside of a public meeting that have presented

[0:55:33] Trustee Luckham: potential outcomes or conclusions.

[0:55:35] Trustee Luckham: And so I would, and then I have another question to follow,

[0:55:40] Trustee Luckham: but essentially this is a public communication

[0:55:43] Trustee Luckham: of which members of the public that we're watching

[0:55:45] Trustee Luckham: are wondering what might be unfolding

[0:55:50] Trustee Luckham: that they and trustees are not aware of.

[0:55:56] Trustee Middleton: Right, thank you, Trustee Latham.

[0:55:58] Trustee Middleton: I appreciate you bringing that up.

[0:56:00] Trustee Middleton: And I apologize for creating that impression.

[0:56:05] Trustee Middleton: I was asked to simply basically detail what is the Governance and Management Review.

[0:56:14] Trustee Middleton: And I was somewhat reluctant to do so, but I was told that people aren't aware of it

[0:56:21] Trustee Middleton: and there's all kinds of rumors about what it is and isn't.

[0:56:24] Trustee Middleton: And so if you could just tell us what it is.

[0:56:26] Trustee Middleton: is and so I actually spoke I thought in the most bland and vague manner that I thought would

[0:56:32] Trustee Middleton: really turn off many viewers because of course there are no conclusions I am not aware of the

[0:56:38] Trustee Middleton: conclusions I hope I did not say that I am expecting big changes because of course I have

[0:56:48] Trustee Middleton: no sense of what is in or not in the consultant's report I mean I hope there's for the effort we've

[0:56:55] Trustee Middleton: all put in that there are some there's some low hanging fruit when it comes to the governance

[0:56:59] Trustee Middleton: structure of the trust that you know i've i've spoken of outside this committee and for years

[0:57:04] Trustee Middleton: in terms of how i think there's some adjustment and some work that can be done in terms of how

[0:57:10] Trustee Middleton: how we internally govern ourselves and this is uh from a structural perspective but most certainly

[0:57:16] Trustee Middleton: there's no inside track and and maybe i will be profoundly disappointed by what the consultants

[0:57:22] Trustee Middleton: consultants present to us in the new year.

[0:57:26] Trustee Middleton: So that certainly wasn't my intent to say that

[0:57:29] Trustee Middleton: if I did say that, phrase my comments in that way,

[0:57:33] Trustee Middleton: the big changes are coming because I was at pains

[0:57:37] Trustee Middleton: to be as bland and as I think I said,

[0:57:40] Trustee Middleton: to not in any way get out in front of the process

[0:57:42] Trustee Middleton: as possible.

[0:57:48] Trustee Luckham: I'm very pleased to hear that and thank you.

[0:57:51] Trustee Luckham: You may want to review the recording

[0:57:54] Trustee Luckham: of the proceedings to know what potentially

[0:58:00] Trustee Luckham: some of the concerns are that are out there.

[0:58:03] Trustee Luckham: The other question I have,

[0:58:05] Trustee Luckham: which is of concern to trustees and myself, of course,

[0:58:11] Trustee Luckham: is that you've suggested that, well,

[0:58:14] Trustee Luckham: you've suggested the council is dysfunctional,

[0:58:16] Trustee Luckham: which I think is maybe overstating some difficulties

[0:58:24] Trustee Luckham: that some trustees may have with the process

[0:58:26] Trustee Luckham: if they're unsuccessful in advancing issues

[0:58:30] Trustee Luckham: as they come to us.

[0:58:32] Trustee Luckham: But of course, all decisions are counsel

[0:58:33] Trustee Luckham: and decisions are counsel

[0:58:34] Trustee Luckham: and business is conducted in an appropriate way, I believe.

[0:58:40] Trustee Luckham: And it functions as it does.

[0:58:42] Trustee Luckham: I wouldn't call it dysfunctional,

[0:58:44] Trustee Luckham: but nonetheless, you had made remarks

[0:58:46] Trustee Luckham: about other trustees wishing to bury this report.

[0:58:50] Trustee Luckham: And that's almost a quote.

[0:58:52] Trustee Luckham: And I have certainly not heard any remarks of that nature. And I think it does a disservice to this committee and this process, because I certainly, as I stated earlier, hope that there will be some recommendations that we can embrace to improve our work in preserving and protecting the Gulf Islands.

[0:59:17] Trustee Luckham: And so I have not heard from anybody that they wish to bury this report.

[0:59:23] Trustee Luckham: I've certainly that we have to respect there are those trustees that were not in support

[0:59:27] Trustee Luckham: of advancing this for their own reasons.

[0:59:30] Trustee Luckham: But this is a decision of council, and I expect all council members to support it.

[0:59:36] Trustee Luckham: And I would just say that if any of the objections that were out there with respect to advancing

[0:59:42] Trustee Luckham: advancing this process through this committee, were of a nature of timing or finance or otherwise.

[0:59:48] Trustee Luckham: I think there was generally support for a third party review of what we do and how we do it.

[0:59:56] Trustee Luckham: There were different reasons for not proceeding at this time.

[1:00:00] Trustee Luckham: we are and again i echo this is a decision of council so um if there is something that i should

[1:00:06] Trustee Luckham: be aware of or that we should know about this i'd be happy to hear that so um and unless of course

[1:00:14] Trustee Luckham: you just you know if you miss if you feel that you maybe misspoke on that topic oh

[1:00:21] Trustee Middleton: no there i can say

[1:00:22] Trustee Middleton: i most definitely did not misspeak um this is a matter of public record for some trustees who

[1:00:26] Trustee Middleton: more or less using the words I used said so.

[1:00:30] Trustee Middleton: And I mean, I have no problem with that.

[1:00:31] Trustee Middleton: I mean, that the people are entitled to a view.

[1:00:36] Trustee Middleton: And this is one of my issues is there's almost an assumed consensus,

[1:00:40] Trustee Middleton: which is not functional in terms of how trust council would work.

[1:00:44] Trustee Middleton: It simply can't work by having no difference of opinion at all.

[1:00:49] Trustee Middleton: And so that if there is difference of opinion, so be it.

[1:00:52] Trustee Middleton: I mean, I appreciate the decision of council was to proceed.

[1:00:55] Trustee Middleton: And I appreciate your robust definition of the business of the trust.

[1:01:03] Trustee Middleton: But I'm not so Pollyanna-ish as to think that people who had been very actively opposed for many reasons that I will not criticize.

[1:01:12] Trustee Middleton: I mean, people are entitled to their view as to why they do not support certain initiatives, that those motivations or interests or views won't go away.

[1:01:22] Trustee Middleton: They'll be there and they'll be present.

[1:01:24] Trustee Middleton: Now, I am hoping that the incredibly difficult task we've put before our consultants will perhaps square that circle to something that we might be able to move on from in a more, shall we say, you know, an open manner, but that leads us to perhaps having a robust governance that can embrace diversity of viewpoints.

[1:01:48] Trustee Middleton: um so i i certainly don't bring that up as as a like oh shucks you know that the thing is is doom

[1:01:55] Trustee Middleton: no that that's reality and i do hope that that we can i move into a an area of um i guess what i'm

[1:02:05] Trustee Middleton: hoping is that the consultants have some ideas for us about how we might um move forward in a in a way

[1:02:11] Trustee Middleton: where our governance can tolerate perhaps more diverse views but we can move in a unified

[1:02:16] Trustee Middleton: direction so so that that was kind of by way of explanation um so but i didn't uh misspeak i mean

[1:02:23] Trustee Middleton: you you heard that right well

[1:02:28] Trustee Luckham: that's intriguing i would say that if as you have said that trustees

[1:02:32] Trustee Luckham: have said that they wish to bury this report and that's on the public record i would like to

[1:02:38] Trustee Luckham: if you could share that with myself and this committee that might be helpful for us to

[1:02:43] Trustee Luckham: to understand where those feelings lie

[1:02:46] Trustee Luckham: and why they are expressed in that manner.

[1:02:53] Trustee Middleton: So

[1:02:53] Trustee Luckham: that's it for my questions.

[1:02:54] Trustee Middleton: No, fair enough.

[1:02:55] Trustee Middleton: And my suspicion is that that of course,

[1:02:57] Trustee Middleton: discussion will come out as the report is tabled,

[1:03:03] Trustee Middleton: but I may be wrong on that,

[1:03:06] Trustee Middleton: but moving on now I see Trustee Brent has his hand up.

[1:03:12] Voice 4: Yeah, I have a comment.

[1:03:13] Voice 4: So my comment is this. There are big changes ahead. I mean, we have reconciliation, climate change. Look at the kind of change we've seen as a result of the policy statement review and how that has engaged the public.

[1:03:31] Voice 4: I mean, the communication that has been occurring within the public that is as it's fabulous when you think about it.

[1:03:39] Voice 4: These are big changes that I haven't seen. I have been now a trustee for 10 years, and I would have to say that the majority of trustees have said to me and in groups that trust council is dysfunctional.

[1:03:54] Voice 4: So we shouldn't we shouldn't be hiding the fact that there are a lot of trustees that think it's dysfunctional.

[1:04:02] Voice 4: And again, I think it's great that we're having those kind of open conversations and I'm going to encourage them.

[1:04:09] Voice 4: And that's how organizations grow. They grow by confronting that which is a challenge, not by trying to bury it.

[1:04:18] Voice 4: so those are my points i think it's fabulous that we're having that level of engagement across

[1:04:24] Voice 4: trustees we're being honest and open and we have fabulous citizen engagement now that's that's it

[1:04:33] Trustee Middleton: for me thank you trustee brent trustee right you have your hand raised i

[1:04:40] Voice 6: think the um if trustee

[1:04:43] Voice 6: luckham um has received um concerns from the public or from other trustees then i would

[1:04:49] Voice 6: encourage him to have them write to the select committee so that we can put those concerns on

[1:04:54] Voice 6: the public record and we're not speaking from hearsay and supposition so I'd just like to see

[1:05:00] Voice 6: those letters myself so we can answer them directly and and get it right out in the open

[1:05:04] Voice 6: and deal with it because I think the issue that Trustee Luckham has raised is a serious one so

[1:05:09] Voice 6: I'd like just like to keep it formalized thanks.

[1:05:15] Trustee Middleton: Thank you Trustee Ray before we turn to Trustee

[1:05:21] Trustee Middleton: do you want to make a response to that trustee luckham or should we move on and you may have

[1:05:25] Trustee Middleton: all opportunity or cause to speak um further down the line here i leave it to your your call

[1:05:34] Trustee Luckham: i have nothing further to add at this time i think it's up to individuals to step forward if they

[1:05:41] Trustee Luckham: wish i've just uh heard these remarks and i wanted to share them with the committee and in indeed a

[1:05:46] Trustee Luckham: public way. And so just thank you.

[1:05:50] Trustee Middleton: Thank you. Thank you, Trustee Luckman. Trustee Kale.

[1:05:55] Voice 9: Okay. I'm speaking as someone who listened to Chair Middleton's comments on the evening in

[1:06:04] Voice 9: question. And I have to say that he answered them, in my opinion, totally objectively,

[1:06:09] Voice 9: with very little flourish or additions of color in terms of opinion.

[1:06:18] Voice 9: And I would pick up on his comment of bland in an effort to be objective and moderate.

[1:06:27] Voice 9: He did, in fact, conduct the evening in a matter of fact and very level toned manner.

[1:06:37] Voice 9: manner. So I thought it was extremely professional. And like others who've expressed

[1:06:43] Voice 9: their opinion this afternoon, it was wonderful to hear some of the opinions raised. They won't

[1:06:50] Voice 9: all be comfortable, but we don't live in a comfortable world. And if we did, we wouldn't

[1:06:55] Voice 9: be having a review. So I would like to talk to anybody who took exception to anything said that

[1:07:03] Voice 9: that evening because I would like to know what exactly it was because I was there and I frankly

[1:07:09] Voice 9: it has certainly escaped my attention so it's very difficult as chair to speak

[1:07:14] Voice 9: in a forum like this but it was commendable and I would think it was as neutral as anyone

[1:07:22] Voice 9: could possibly speak without actually not saying anything so well done chair Middleton.

[1:07:30] Voice 9: turn thank

[1:07:35] Trustee Middleton: you ellen you're not the first to um explain that i speak at length and never say

[1:07:41] Trustee Middleton: anything so i i appreciate that reinforcement um but i do take kindly and appreciate the fact that

[1:07:48] Trustee Middleton: you know it is not my role to interpret the findings of this committee and i realized i

[1:07:54] Trustee Middleton: probably strayed a little bit and i i hear where you're coming from trustee luckham um that um

[1:07:59] Trustee Middleton: my role was to be if it was to be talking on behalf of the committee was to be a strict

[1:08:04] Trustee Middleton: objective about what the committee is doing. And I certainly commit to not put myself in a position

[1:08:10] Trustee Middleton: where I'm having to either interpret the work of the committee or speak on behalf of the committee

[1:08:17] Trustee Middleton: when we come down to actually talking about findings. That's obviously, we now, I think,

[1:08:22] Trustee Middleton: if I'm asked again, we'll have to ask people to be patient and now wait for the results

[1:08:28] Trustee Middleton: of the consultants in their written report,

[1:08:33] Trustee Middleton: which everyone can then share and discuss and debate as they will.

[1:08:38] Trustee Middleton: So if that was sort of a gentle nudge there, I humbly accept that

[1:08:44] Trustee Middleton: and will be cognizant of that situation for the future.

[1:08:55] Voice 7: And having said

[1:08:57] Trustee Middleton: that, are there any further comments,

[1:09:00] Trustee Middleton: any last questions?

[1:09:05] Trustee Middleton: Mr. Kelly, did you raise your hand?

[1:09:07] Trustee Middleton: Or is there any last thing that you have to say?

[1:09:09] Trustee Middleton: Okay, thank you.

[1:09:18] Voice 7: Oops.

[1:09:19] Voice 7: So we have our,

[1:09:20] Trustee Middleton: I think that concludes our new business item then.

[1:09:23] Trustee Middleton: And we have our next meeting, which is scheduled now for January 10th,

[1:09:28] Trustee Middleton: where we will start to actually get the impetus of the work of the consultants.

[1:09:35] Trustee Middleton: So I appreciate that.

[1:09:36] Trustee Middleton: that. And I think without, if there's no last comments, I would ask for a motion to adjourn,

[1:09:44] Trustee Middleton: please. Trustee Brand, seconded by Trustee Wright. Oh, Laurie, sorry, do you have a...

[1:09:53] Voice 1: I'm sorry, I don't have a motion that you scheduled the January 10th and February 7th

[1:09:59] Voice 1: meeting, just that you accepted the revised timeline. May I have a motion that you schedule

[1:10:03] Voice 1: these as your two business meetings could

[1:10:06] Trustee Middleton: could i ask for a motion then as a lori um requested

[1:10:10] Trustee Middleton: thank you that i'll

[1:10:11] Voice 4: let me just i'll move except the june uh 10th and february 7th as our next

[1:10:17] Voice 4: meetings just

[1:10:19] Trustee Middleton: before i get a seconder uh our ceo has raised his hand sir could you please uh well

[1:10:25] Voice 10: i'm just taking a look at the january 10th to make sure that we have i don't think we've analyzed

[1:10:31] Voice 10: analyze that date. So I think it's a date that's being proposed by Charles, perhaps,

[1:10:37] Voice 10: as we haven't scheduled any committee meetings for the coming year. So why don't we have those

[1:10:43] Voice 10: as placeholders at the direction of the select committee and we'll refine if needed just for the

[1:10:50] Voice 10: to keep this one moving along.

[1:10:54] Trustee Middleton: Sure. So would you recommend that we have a resolution of that

[1:10:57] Trustee Middleton: meeting once you've checked out those dates? I think

[1:11:00] Voice 10: you should pass these dates and then we'll

[1:11:02] Voice 10: look at what the calendar is in the new year to see whether anything has changed and then we'll

[1:11:06] Voice 10: um do an rwm if required but you know i don't i don't think it's it's going to really matter

[1:11:12] Voice 10: one way or another whether if it's the 10th to the 17th but um we just haven't done an analysis

[1:11:18] Voice 10: in the last hour on that on the january 10th fair

[1:11:22] Trustee Middleton: enough okay thank you for that so trustee

[1:11:25] Trustee Middleton: We made a motion of January 10th and February 7th

[1:11:29] Trustee Middleton: as our prospective meeting, next meeting dates.

[1:11:32] Trustee Middleton: And I believe we had Trustee Wright

[1:11:36] Trustee Middleton: or we'll say Trustee Wright is the seconder.

[1:11:39] Trustee Middleton: So all in favor.

[1:11:43] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[1:11:44] Trustee Middleton: That carries.

[1:11:45] Trustee Middleton: And then there's a question from Vice Chair Langeres, I think.

[1:11:49] Trustee Middleton: Oh, no, put your hand down.

[1:11:50] Trustee Middleton: No, fair enough.

[1:11:51] Trustee Middleton: Okay.

[1:11:53] Trustee Middleton: So that was our next meeting.

[1:11:54] Trustee Middleton: Okay, so then coming back to without any further business, I'll ask for a motion to adjourn.

[1:12:02] Voice 8: I'll do that.

[1:12:03] Voice 8: I'll second it.

[1:12:05] Trustee Middleton: Did you get that, Laurie?

[1:12:09] Voice 1: Yes, thank you.

[1:12:10] Trustee Middleton: Okay, great.

[1:12:11] Trustee Middleton: Well, thank you, everyone.

[1:12:13] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, staff and trustees, for your participation and our consulting team.

[1:12:19] Trustee Middleton: And until the next time.

[1:12:22] Trustee Middleton: I

[1:12:22] Voice 8: think Russ raised his hand.

[1:12:24] Voice 8: I was just saying, see you later.

[1:12:26] Voice 8: Okay.

[1:12:27] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[1:12:28] Trustee Middleton: Head to the bar.

[1:12:29] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, head

[1:12:30] Voice 10: to the bar.

[1:12:30] Voice 10: Thank

[1:12:31] Trustee Middleton: you very much.

[1:12:32] Trustee Middleton: Thanks, everyone.

[1:12:33] Voice 11: Thank you, Chair.

[1:12:34] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[1:12:35] Trustee Middleton: Bye-bye.