Islands Trust Council regular meeting, December 4, 2021

[0:00:00] Voice 21: do a covenant was proposed to us um you know if we're ever to add any any more units to our

[0:00:05] Voice 21: property um so we kind of our goal is to not have the covenant we want to come to work with you

[0:00:13] Voice 21: um have a plan so what we are what we're willing to do is we're going to hire a hydrogelius

[0:00:19] Voice 21: um to have a site-specific study done on our property we're going to take that on um i think

[0:00:24] Voice 21: that's important to have a professional come in there and really understand the feasibility

[0:00:28] Voice 21: of that with our final place um you know and honestly we're asking for some trust here like

[0:00:33] Voice 21: you know me and my fiancee we're big climate change supporters we're all about the environment

[0:00:39] Voice 21: you know we do everything we can to help and i mean that and i think we're just having some

[0:00:44] Voice 21: trust and some reasonability reasonability in this because we're putting everything we have

[0:00:48] Voice 21: into this we've done everything and we're going to continue to you know protect you know what's

[0:00:53] Voice 21: natural in our our project and our property and that's our goal to keep like that so anyways

[0:00:58] Voice 21: Thank you for listening to me, I appreciate it.

[0:01:01] Voice 12: We don't applaud, please, we don't applaud just because we want everyone to feel free

[0:01:06] Voice 12: about speaking. Someone could have a different opinion.

[0:01:11] Voice 6: Thank you for your time.

[0:01:16] Voice 10: Yes, go ahead.

[0:01:18] Voice 6: I

[0:01:18] Voice 10: do want to just name, as folks are wandering off, I really do

[0:01:22] Voice 10: appreciate people coming and talking. We also are in the book, so

[0:01:26] Voice 10: like anybody is welcome to just phone and chat with us about anything. Texting is always a good

[0:01:32] Voice 10: idea with me before I go. But anyway, so thank you very much. Thank you. Thank

[0:01:37] Voice 12: you. Okay, we'll move

[0:01:40] Voice 12: back. Sure, we'll go back to the next row there. Or are you gonna, you're just taking your coat off?

[0:01:51] Voice 12: Okay, go ahead. Thank

[0:01:52] Voice 3: you. Hi, my name is Michael Robinson. I am one of the new owners of

[0:01:58] Voice 3: 1349. So I'm a neighbor of Bud's and this is regarding, I want to thank you again for being

[0:02:07] Voice 3: able to speak on this. So my wife has just emailed through a letter I'd like to write

[0:02:18] Voice 3: just so I don't meander. We're hoping to also engage with him as well as our other neighbors

[0:02:36] on this.

[0:02:37] Voice 3: So again, this is in regards to 1349. Currently about 90% of our water demand comes

[0:02:46] Voice 3: comes from a rainwater cracking system

[0:02:49] Voice 3: that had access throughout the summer

[0:02:52] to the drought resistance.

[0:02:57] Voice 3: This is because, as I understand it,

[0:03:00] Voice 3: it was built with a vision of adding dwellings

[0:03:02] Voice 3: to the property that just were not.

[0:03:09] Since the system is already in place,

[0:03:11] we can easily extend it

[0:03:12] and build additional

[0:03:13] Voice 3: dwellings on the property.

[0:03:16] Voice 3: We also have a well property

[0:03:19] Voice 3: that really doesn't get used, is accessible.

[0:03:28] Voice 3: so be assured that as we expand a water conservation plan one thing would be a

[0:03:34] Voice 3: central part of the process the concerns from my interest regarding our groundwater

[0:03:40] Voice 3: and share for them is to have a uh i think what she's trying to say there is um we have the three

[0:03:53] systems and uh we have put in the plans to get a uh of course just as a fire set aside just for the

[0:04:02] fire department when we purchased this property it had been on the market for a little over a year

[0:04:10] because it was priced we were seeking this type of zoning of guests

[0:04:19] Voice 3: so based on the zone mortgage

[0:04:24] lender assess the problem our commercial mortgage is specifically for this commercial zone that's

[0:04:35] in play so any change in the zoning or the covenants to put our mortgage at risk and

[0:04:44] as well the value of the property so we purchased this property at premium because of its building

[0:04:49] Voice 3: Unlike a residential zoning where neighbors suddenly in a normal primary house is converted to an Airbnb,

[0:05:00] ethically, we specifically wanted a property where

[0:05:03] Voice 3: this was already permitted under existing zoning regulations.

[0:05:08] Voice 3: Neighbors could not be taken by surprise.

[0:05:12] Lastly, our property has a small footprint with water and energy use, but also with car traffic.

[0:05:20] The location next to the ferry made sense for our

[0:05:22] Voice 3: vision of a eco-sensitive resort,

[0:05:24] Voice 3: door. So we encourage guests to come by foot, bike, and kayak. These are all the type of guests

[0:05:32] Voice 3: who tend to come and want to attract long-term. And those who drive can drive minimal traffic on

[0:05:39] Voice 3: the island. Well,

[0:05:47] Voice 3: definitely not against a covenant that provides protection to water

[0:05:52] Voice 3: and environment at this time without knowing what the direction of the covenant will be.

[0:05:59] Voice 3: i'm

[0:06:13] Voice 7: sorry yeah is

[0:06:14] Trustee McConchie: that your that email been submitted to the trust community

[0:06:17] Trustee McConchie: no it

[0:06:19] Trustee McConchie: hasn't it's just been uh sent to me also should i get that well the staff report the

[0:06:25] Trustee McConchie: staff report says we haven't been able to get ahold of you guys so it's here oh is that right

[0:06:30] Trustee McConchie: yeah i i was just uh putting it on and we appreciate you guys coming today speaking

[0:06:40] to the trust committee and putting

[0:06:41] Trustee McConchie: face to this i certainly was wondering if we could have a site

[0:06:46] Voice 7: visit yeah yeah

[0:06:47] Trustee McConchie: yeah i've been down

[0:06:48] Voice 7: in the tides already i

[0:06:49] Trustee McConchie: haven't been on

[0:06:50] Voice 7: to that property i went

[0:06:51] Voice 7: down not to you so perhaps we can arrange oh yeah

[0:06:54] Voice 7: yeah we can show you

[0:06:55] Voice 21: because there's like

[0:06:57] Voice 21: sites that we're going on right now so yeah so

[0:06:59] Trustee McConchie: after the end of the meetings

[0:07:01] Trustee McConchie: after i'll contact uh send an email to the planner and we'll we'll arrange a staff meeting

[0:07:06] Trustee McConchie: uh a staff site visit at least with the dev and i uh potentially i could film actually

[0:07:11] Voice 10: me

[0:07:11] Trustee McConchie: um and

[0:07:15] Voice 10: i do see that we have an email in here so i'll forward that over to you because it came

[0:07:19] Voice 10: to the three of us but not to you so all right

[0:07:21] Voice 12: thank you very much all right down to the next

[0:07:24] Voice 12: row we'll start on that end oops sorry you were over here i'm sorry i'm

[0:07:30] Voice 5: not expecting applause

[0:07:31] Voice 5: a

[0:07:31] Voice 13: couple

[0:07:36] Voice 5: of follow-up questions from ways of knowing and i did not find the i did not find

[0:07:53] Voice 5: the answer particularly satisfactory approach it might be if you could tell me what you mean by

[0:08:03] simply ways of knowing you could tell me what your definition of ways of knowing

[0:08:14] knowing is pertinent to,

[0:08:16] Voice 5: of course, policy.

[0:08:19] Voice 5: Can

[0:08:21] Trustee McConchie: I address this right on?

[0:08:23] Trustee McConchie: I feel like Lisa Wilcox, our First Nations advisor,

[0:08:28] Trustee McConchie: needs to come to the community here and speak on this particular issue.

[0:08:34] Trustee McConchie: I think you raise an important question,

[0:08:36] Trustee McConchie: and I want to point out that I was unprepared to answer that question.

[0:08:42] Trustee McConchie: I think it's worthy of discussion in our community.

[0:08:44] Trustee McConchie: However, I also feel like I'm a white guy talking about this stuff. And I'm aware of my colonial history. So I want to, I know you roll your eyes, but that's, that's really important to recognize who I am and where I'm coming from.

[0:08:57] Trustee McConchie: So I actually believe it's very important for someone in the First Nations community to come here and speak to the community about what that means on from a First Nations perspective in relationship to how we govern.

[0:09:10] Trustee McConchie: i'm not sure you're going to get a satisfactory answer right now without that but

[0:09:15] Voice 5: hang on i'm

[0:09:15] Voice 5: not asking you at this point what are indigenous ways of knowing term ways of knowing means

[0:09:24] because the ways of knowing is not limited to indigenous or non-indigenous issues

[0:09:36] it appears in the

[0:09:38] Voice 5: policy document 183 multiple times so i would have expected that a document

[0:09:47] Voice 5: and that i i was confused by trustees morrison's response that this was not meant to be a public

[0:09:55] Voice 5: document but a draft document since my understanding is if the vote in july 8 had

[0:10:02] Voice 5: gone in a different or different way it would have received first three so that strikes me as

[0:10:09] it was clearly meant to be a public document in fact to be the basis of uh of a public discussion

[0:10:18] Voice 5: after first 3d so i

[0:10:22] Voice 12: i i failed at the beginning in my report i should have mentioned that the

[0:10:26] Voice 12: uh we we just did secure the the contractor that's going to work with the islands trust on the

[0:10:32] Voice 12: engagement process for uh before the trust policy statement review so there'll be more opportunities

[0:10:39] Voice 12: coming and on this topic and questions that are important and can be have more dialogue and help

[0:10:45] Voice 12: to come to language that that works for the community so sure can i

[0:10:50] Voice 10: can we just hear the

[0:10:52] Voice 9: rest of what he has to say and then i'll respond well

[0:10:54] Voice 5: my second question related to 183 uh what's

[0:10:59] Voice 5: the term settler, I would like to know what the term settler means.

[0:11:04] Voice 5: I don't call it being, for instance,

[0:11:07] Voice 5: such a term to be used

[0:11:10] Voice 5: in, say, the Charter of Rights, so I'd like to know exactly

[0:11:14] what the definition

[0:11:15] Voice 5: of settler is. It's being used

[0:11:18] Voice 5: in a foundational bylaw

[0:11:22] Voice 5: for these islands.

[0:11:27] Voice 10: Are you finished? I'll address everything at once.

[0:11:29] Voice 10: Well,

[0:11:30] Voice 5: I do have a question that's related to clarifying what you're planning to do with 14.1 in this meeting, an issue of procedure, so I understand what you're planning to do with it.

[0:11:49] Voice 5: Go ahead and ask the question.

[0:11:50] Voice 5: My understanding from watching the special meeting in October on this issue was that

[0:11:56] Voice 5: you were going to have a special meeting on the land use by-law, whereby you invited some

[0:12:04] under-trustees on this particular date.

[0:12:08] Now, obviously, this is a regular meeting, not a special meeting, but the land use by-law

[0:12:15] does appear on the agenda.

[0:12:17] And I'd like to know whether you're seated with customers and your trustees and what exactly you're planning to do with this project in this particular meeting.

[0:12:34] Voice 5: What decisions are you going to make?

[0:12:38] Voice 6: Is that your last

[0:12:40] Trustee McConchie: question?

[0:12:42] Trustee McConchie: Yes.

[0:12:42] Trustee McConchie: Great.

[0:12:42] Trustee McConchie: Have

[0:12:43] Voice 7: a seat and then

[0:12:43] Voice 10: we'll work through these.

[0:12:45] Voice 10: Go ahead.

[0:12:46] Voice 10: Okay.

[0:12:47] Voice 10: All right. So policy draft 183, just for everybody who doesn't know what that is,

[0:12:54] Voice 10: is the trust policy statement. And so thinking about what we are doing with that and why I say,

[0:13:02] Voice 10: I didn't say it wasn't a public document. I said it was a draft document. And so it's public as

[0:13:08] Voice 10: soon as it goes on record for any meeting, any documents public, you're welcome to poke around

[0:13:13] Voice 10: in any of those documents um but in the june trust programs committee meeting we forwarded

[0:13:20] Voice 10: the then version which had been written by staff of the trust policy statement had been formed by

[0:13:25] Voice 10: a lot of trustee conversation over the last year over a year and a half um but it was forwarded

[0:13:31] Voice 10: to the trust council to be able to discuss it and think about it a little bit more and give

[0:13:36] Voice 10: some guidance because a subset of the trustees were basically giving a lot of guidance and there

[0:13:42] Voice 10: was a concern that it if we didn't have a little bit more consensus from the whole of the trust

[0:13:47] Voice 10: council that you know we end up with something at the end that trustees wouldn't buy into so

[0:13:53] Voice 10: it's a big waste of time right so um but going to that meeting on july 8th and the guidance was to

[0:14:02] Voice 10: put it into first reading so that it was debatable a lot of different people think different things

[0:14:07] Voice 10: about first reading they think that after you put something into first reading you can't change it

[0:14:12] Voice 10: substantially i personally don't think that at all i've seen lots of things substantially changed

[0:14:17] Voice 10: after first reading so i didn't really have a problem with the draft going into first reading

[0:14:20] Voice 10: just to get it out into the referral process get the maximum amount of comment on people start

[0:14:26] Voice 10: thinking about it we can keep it in first reading for a year and like constantly edit it and revise

[0:14:31] Voice 10: it and improve it. So one of the things that has been named inside that document as needing

[0:14:37] Voice 10: improvement is a definition section, not surprisingly. So with language like things

[0:14:43] Voice 10: like settler, with language like ways of knowing, there's a number of other terms in there that are

[0:14:49] Voice 10: confusing and new and maybe should stay in or maybe shouldn't. But those are all things that

[0:14:54] Voice 10: are open to conversation right now. So one of the things that is being suggested is to add a

[0:14:58] Voice 10: definition section for that very reason can i give a single definition no it's not my document

[0:15:03] Voice 10: so i'm not going to give a definition for that it's something that has to become the consensus

[0:15:08] Voice 10: inside that or at least a majority rule inside the council um in turn so i'm going to leave that

[0:15:15] Voice 10: there and do encourage you to bring those questions into trust council because that's who owns that

[0:15:20] Voice 10: document right now my understanding is that it will come back to trust programs committee for

[0:15:24] Voice 10: some edits and review potentially in the next three months before the march meeting at least

[0:15:29] Voice 10: some feedback for how it should be reviewed um or revised but i still haven't had that yet that

[0:15:36] Voice 10: commitment yet so right now trust programs committee hasn't really touched that document

[0:15:39] Voice 10: since june um and so we'll hopefully get our hands on it again and be able to give some advice and to

[0:15:46] Voice 10: the to the trust council so i would encourage you to take those questions to trust council

[0:15:50] Voice 10: and I will happily forward them in terms of 14.1 the land use bylaw we have

[0:15:59] Voice 10: informed the south pender trustees that that's on the agenda today and my

[0:16:03] Voice 10: understanding it is their intent to be here for that that agenda item that

[0:16:07] Voice 10: agenda item is not a decisional agenda item if I'm correct it's just it's a

[0:16:13] Voice 10: conversation to keep moving forward and get get to some state our land use bylaw

[0:16:18] Voice 10: for review by our community in january february february so that's where we are on that uh if i

[0:16:28] Trustee McConchie: can just speak a little bit more candidly so you're gonna the trust council voted to get some

[0:16:34] Trustee McConchie: folks in to ask more opinions because of all the shenanigans that went on this summer with these

[0:16:40] Trustee McConchie: unsigned concerned citizens of the southern gulf islands put an unsigned thing about the policy

[0:16:45] Trustee McConchie: statement that halted the first reading the trust council then went all the 26 trustees said let's

[0:16:51] Trustee McConchie: ask the consultants to uh engage more with the community so the good news is there's going to be

[0:16:58] Trustee McConchie: your tax dollars has paid to hear your opinions on the policy statement so if you're interested

[0:17:03] Trustee McConchie: in engaging more on that we've got consultants in every single angle of attracting opinions

[0:17:09] Trustee McConchie: coming at you so we're actually really interested to hear what you have to say as far as answering

[0:17:14] Trustee McConchie: your specific questions right now i don't think it's from what i understand trustee morrison it's

[0:17:18] Trustee McConchie: not necessarily appropriate right now because we don't even we don't have first reading we don't

[0:17:22] Trustee McConchie: have a draft i don't even really know where we're at with the leadership with the policy statement

[0:17:26] Trustee McConchie: so i don't i'm sorry we can't answer your question satisfactory today today but i appreciate you

[0:17:31] Trustee McConchie: bringing them up all

[0:17:34] Voice 6: right thank

[0:17:35] Voice 12: you yeah so i guess we'll start i'm going to let go on this

[0:17:40] Voice 12: I'm sorry, Michael, on the other hand.

[0:17:50] Voice 22: Hello, my name is Rob Penton.

[0:17:53] Voice 22: I'm a lawyer.

[0:17:54] I want to thank my clients, Suzanne and Tavis and Lynn Brown,

[0:18:10] in regard to the decision.

[0:18:12] The enforcement staff

[0:18:15] Voice 22: who advised them that some three of their trailers

[0:18:20] Voice 22: have to be removed.

[0:18:24] Voice 22: Now, I've sent a submission.

[0:18:29] Trustee McConchie: Hey, Rob, I'm wondering if you can come up and speak so the microphone

[0:18:32] Trustee McConchie: phone can hear you a little clearer you're the furthest back there that we've had so far okay

[0:18:35] Trustee McConchie: not that you don't have a nice beautiful voice i'm

[0:18:38] Voice 12: also i i welcome you to speak today but i want uh

[0:18:44] Voice 12: with bylaw enforcement the matter you know it's not something we do in a public setting of this

[0:18:51] Voice 12: nature what i would encourage you to do is talk about what you would like to see changed that we

[0:18:57] Voice 12: do control of uh regarding the situation uh sorry

[0:19:02] Trustee McConchie: chair patrick point of order he's not allowed to

[0:19:04] Trustee McConchie: speak to the the the issue of what the his client is going through at this time it's a town hall

[0:19:11] Voice 12: i understand that i'm just saying it's a bylaw matter it's there's an open

[0:19:15] Voice 9: bylaw file so we've

[0:19:18] Voice 9: um the voucher uh more indignant just said that um there shouldn't be a discussion on the matter but

[0:19:26] Voice 9: but I would, you could probably listen to it.

[0:19:29] Voice 10: So I would encourage a general conversation

[0:19:31] Voice 10: about

[0:19:32] Voice 12: the issue of enforcement on housing.

[0:19:34] Voice 12: Correct.

[0:19:35] Voice 12: And any bylaws suggestions to improve situations

[0:19:38] Voice 12: that changes to bylaws.

[0:19:41] Trustee McConchie: When is the appropriate time to talk about bylaws

[0:19:44] Trustee McConchie: with this particular issue?

[0:19:46] Voice 9: It would be an in-camera session.

[0:19:47] Voice 9: I would suggest that would be with Warren Digman

[0:19:49] Voice 9: on the January, in terms of January meeting.

[0:19:52] Trustee McConchie: And so that's concerns over legal,

[0:19:54] Trustee McConchie: just so the public is understanding that's concerns over this we have an in-camera meeting

[0:19:59] Trustee McConchie: because it could concern legal issues is that correct legal

[0:20:01] Voice 9: issues personal issues just

[0:20:04] Trustee McConchie: helping

[0:20:06] Voice 22: well um with all due respect i'm open to being directed of course but i i did get from um

[0:20:15] Voice 22: the director of local planning services bylaw compliance and enforcement

[0:20:20] Voice 22: and rule 4.1.3. I have copies here for you.

[0:20:33] Voice 18: Yeah, sure. Thanks.

[0:21:41] Voice 6: I apologize.

[0:21:44] Voice 12: The Wi-Fi just dropped off and came back in again.

[0:21:48] Voice 22: I'm quite pleased to discuss any aspects of all this.

[0:21:53] I just need some direction from yourselves.

[0:21:56] But

[0:21:56] Voice 22: my initial sense is to save everybody a lot of time and energy

[0:22:00] Voice 22: is to request to make a decision under 4.1.3 just to close this file and allow them to stay there.

[0:22:11] Voice 7: Can you give us the file number, Rob?

[0:22:15] Voice 22: Sorry?

[0:22:15] Voice 22: Can

[0:22:16] Voice 7: you give me the bylaw file number? Do you have it in front of you?

[0:22:18] Trustee McConchie: The decision of the bylaw file. What's your bylaw enforcement? Are you giving me a number?

[0:22:25] Trustee McConchie: Yeah.

[0:22:26] Voice 22: I

[0:22:27] Trustee McConchie: have it here.

[0:22:28] Voice 22: You

[0:22:28] Voice 10: don't have to come up with it this second, but before the end of this meeting, if you can find it, that would be helpful.

[0:22:33] Voice 10: Yeah,

[0:22:33] Voice 22: I have a lot of papers here.

[0:22:37] Voice 22: I

[0:22:37] Voice 9: believe it's NPDE 2021.14.

[0:22:44] Trustee McConchie: Thank you very much.

[0:22:47] Voice 9: One more time.

[0:22:50] Voice 9: NPDE-BE-2021.14.

[0:22:54] Voice 9: Thank you.

[0:22:56] Voice 9: Thank you.

[0:22:57] Voice 10: All right.

[0:22:58] Voice 10: I think what I would like to hear, Robert, if it's possible,

[0:23:01] Voice 10: I really do understand the legal issue of not having all these details because this is a public meeting and it's all recorded.

[0:23:07] Voice 10: So I do want to respect privacy for individual people.

[0:23:10] Voice 10: But if you can talk in generalities right now about what this case, like what this situation highlights in the problem that we're having with housing, that would be helpful.

[0:23:21] Voice 22: Yes, I can do that.

[0:23:22] Voice 22: So we have, I think my client sent a personal letter to each of you yesterday.

[0:23:29] Voice 22: and I have a copy so that you have that so I'll try to be brief the family

[0:23:36] situation three growing

[0:23:38] Voice 22: teenage children they bought a 10-acre farm they five

[0:23:45] Voice 22: apartment farm status they were going to get their building permit cost Colbert

[0:23:53] Voice 22: they couldn't do it and they're working here they each have independent

[0:23:58] Voice 22: businesses so they're providing services they're booked up for a year kids are

[0:24:02] Voice 22: going to school and they're just trying to survive and live here okay the the

[0:24:12] Voice 22: technical rule says one trailer that rules been in place for a long time

[0:24:17] Voice 22: their position my position on their behalf is that was fine even two or

[0:24:24] Voice 22: or three years ago, things have changed. Whether that's a huge number of people moving here,

[0:24:31] Voice 22: no more rental accommodation, nothing even for sale. You've got COVID, you've got heat domes,

[0:24:38] Voice 22: you've got forest fires, floods. The world has changed dramatically and they're trying to survive,

[0:24:45] Voice 22: right? What's happened, as they said in their letter, someone doesn't like trailers. They're

[0:24:52] Voice 22: They're title new.

[0:24:53] Voice 22: Technically, that's what the bylaw says.

[0:24:55] Voice 22: Some anonymous person driving by, oh, I don't like this.

[0:25:00] Voice 22: Family's gone, right?

[0:25:02] Voice 22: They're going to have to sell their, everything's finished.

[0:25:05] Voice 22: The mother is here.

[0:25:07] Voice 22: They're going to probably have to move off the island.

[0:25:10] Voice 22: The consequence of that bylaw for this family is extreme.

[0:25:14] Voice 22: The situation is now there are no other alternatives.

[0:25:19] Voice 22: There just isn't.

[0:25:21] Voice 22: so they're coping if you look at what they're doing they've got these trailers right um the

[0:25:31] Voice 22: bylaw and

[0:25:31] Voice 10: i don't want to go into too much detail specifically on this one because we're going to

[0:25:34] Voice 10: get ourselves into the gray area okay

[0:25:36] Trustee McConchie: well we also we're i think we're the trust committee is

[0:25:40] Trustee McConchie: very well versed understand the request okay and we appreciate you coming to speak this is under

[0:25:45] Trustee McConchie: new business so we're going to discuss this

[0:25:47] Trustee McConchie: not for another until the end of the meeting

[0:25:51] Trustee McConchie: so i mean if you guys uh you're welcome to stay but i can we can also inform you uh informally

[0:25:58] Trustee McConchie: after the meeting about our local trust committee's decisions as well but we but from what

[0:26:02] Trustee McConchie: i'm understanding you're requesting that the bylaw investigation files can be closed in one more of

[0:26:08] Trustee McConchie: the following circumstances 4.1.3 on direction of the local trust committee that's your point

[0:26:13] Trustee McConchie: you get the highlights that the trust committee can stop by law enforcement yeah and close this

[0:26:17] Trustee McConchie: file and you're requesting that the trust committee do that is that what i'm understanding

[0:26:21] Trustee McConchie: and then they'd be allowed to stay thanks no we're going to debate that uh later in the meeting so

[0:26:25] Trustee McConchie: thanks very

[0:26:26] Trustee McConchie: much the

[0:26:27] Voice 10: one the one last piece of information that i need that i'm just not

[0:26:30] Voice 10: a crystal clear about in case you wander off is um when you say the word trailer are you meaning

[0:26:36] Voice 10: trailer as in a like manufacturer at home or as an rv rv okay

[0:26:41] Voice 10: and so an rv that's built to

[0:26:43] Voice 10: recreational vehicle standards but not necessarily living and housing standards

[0:26:47] Voice 22: yeah it's uh it's

[0:26:49] Voice 22: an rv standard yeah yeah yes okay

[0:26:52] Voice 10: thank you okay

[0:26:53] Voice 22: so we just so i'm clear um when when should my

[0:26:57] Voice 22: clients and i come back

[0:26:59] Voice 10: approximately

[0:27:00] Voice 22: i'll sit in

[0:27:02] Trustee McConchie: but i just so i can tell them

[0:27:03] Voice 10: well my question

[0:27:05] Trustee McConchie: to patrick is can we discuss this in an open meeting this is my new business item yeah

[0:27:13] Voice 12: you're i think you're talking you're talking on a overall uh item that affects the entire island

[0:27:21] Voice 12: we can talk about that in an open meeting we're not you know we're not you're talking about a

[0:27:27] Voice 12: standing resolution creating a standing resolution that affects uh the general population of the

[0:27:33] Voice 12: the island that's going to occur in a open meeting we're not talking about you know the bylaw issue

[0:27:38] Voice 12: you're talking about overall direction

[0:27:41] Trustee McConchie: so i'm curious to know if we're able to today's meeting

[0:27:45] Trustee McConchie: uh close the file if that is that an option if i'm kind of trustee put a motion on the table

[0:27:52] Trustee McConchie: to close the file at this meeting i

[0:27:56] Voice 12: think the direction you're taking would have that effect

[0:27:59] Voice 12: but it's you're taking a different approach than talking about a file if that makes sense

[0:28:03] Voice 12: we're talking

[0:28:04] Voice 12: about enforcement in general of a certain nature yeah that's the conversation

[0:28:09] Voice 12: you're going to have yeah because

[0:28:11] Voice 10: what we're suggesting later today is basically saying

[0:28:14] Voice 10: instead of saying what you're suggesting as closing this specific file we would say we're

[0:28:19] Voice 10: putting moratorium on the enforcement of anything of this type for the next year until we're out of

[0:28:25] Voice 10: covid until we like resolved all these other issues that are going on so slightly that would

[0:28:28] Voice 10: be the solution it's a general solution wouldn't get us into this with another family another

[0:28:33] Voice 10: tension with another family on island because it's not the only one and um so it would be a

[0:28:38] Voice 10: more general solution for the same same effect and we can talk about that excuse

[0:28:42] Voice 22: me the consequence

[0:28:43] Voice 22: of that would be that they because they're they have this january 15th deadline no

[0:28:49] Voice 10: we would do

[0:28:49] Voice 10: that today so

[0:28:50] Voice 22: that okay so um i'll stay around but my client should be back when about an hour

[0:28:57] Voice 22: I

[0:28:58] Voice 10: would say an hour at least.

[0:29:01] Voice 10: Thank you

[0:29:02] Trustee McConchie: for discussing your

[0:29:04] Voice 18: concerns with the trust committee.

[0:29:05] Voice 18: Thank you.

[0:29:08] Voice 12: All right.

[0:29:09] Voice 12: Started back on this row.

[0:29:10] Voice 12: Go ahead.

[0:29:12] Voice 9: I just want to talk about living in trailers in the housing crisis.

[0:29:22] Voice 9: Rebuilding a deck for 90.

[0:29:25] Voice 9: And it's going really slowly because I can't get help.

[0:29:28] Voice 9: And in my evenings,

[0:29:30] Voice 9: I spent my time ripping a sopping wet carpet out of a really crappy place to live for somebody who's my age and working.

[0:29:41] Voice 9: And then also trying to move a refrigerator for somebody who's moving out of a nice house that's probably going to get sold into a really crappy shack that has a lot of people.

[0:29:53] Voice 9: People who are young and working are having a really hard time being able to live here.

[0:30:00] Voice 9: has a rippling effect because people just started leaving and so our aging population doesn't have

[0:30:08] Voice 9: people to look after them so that people who are 90 have decks that are falling down because they

[0:30:12] Voice 9: can't get anybody to fix them and i think that we need to address this right away and i think that

[0:30:19] Voice 9: um trailers are you know they're not a nice long-term option but if they're safe if they're

[0:30:28] Voice 9: protected in the short term then we can have brooms over them and we can make sure that they're

[0:30:33] Voice 9: sanitary and we can take care of this short-term piece while we put better things in place.

[0:30:40] Voice 9: So I would really encourage you to open up living in trailers as a safe thing. It's also

[0:30:47] Voice 9: really stressful as a person who's living in a trailer,

[0:30:52] Voice 9: that trailer it's really stressful not knowing if you can stay or if you can go

[0:31:00] Voice 9: um i'm supposed to be getting this house built so that then we don't have to worry about the trailer

[0:31:07] Voice 9: but it's so hard if i'm trying to plan out where i'm going to move the 30-foot trailer and whether

[0:31:13] Voice 9: i'm going to be looking for housing that's going to cost me three thousand dollars a month then

[0:31:17] Voice 9: that is going to significantly affect my budget for being able to build a house and whether there

[0:31:22] Voice 9: even will be three thousand dollars a month housing available that will fit the family

[0:31:27] Voice 9: not all like on to my strap so it would be really nice to just have it put to the side

[0:31:37] Voice 9: especially in situations like ours where we have a certified septic system and a certified well

[0:31:43] Voice 9: where you know within all the lens trust limits of you know number of people on a property

[0:31:49] Voice 9: property and you know we really care about the land we are currently by the trust rules we could

[0:32:01] have our chicken poops removed we could be mandated

[0:32:04] Voice 9: to take our chickens are limited to one

[0:32:08] Voice 9: per person grocery store and we're providing for our neighbors so we're allowed to have a helipad

[0:32:18] Voice 9: but we're not allowed to touch it,

[0:32:20] Voice 6: it's

[0:32:21] Voice 10: real, it's written out, oh yeah, we know it, so yeah, yeah, so

[0:32:27] Voice 9: I would really ask that, you know, like we have rules to keep people safe, housing should be sanitary, people should have septic systems, but people should be allowed to live in trailers, and to provide for their neighbors with food security, and to build their houses in peace, thank you, yeah,

[0:32:48] Voice 10: and thank you very much, just as a comment,

[0:32:50] Voice 10: so the housing issue is well known problem so we totally hear you and we know the per

[0:32:56] Voice 10: we know people personally who are in the situation so the challenge where we're running into is a

[0:33:03] Voice 10: history of like whack-a-mole land use planning in certain instances here where rules are

[0:33:09] Voice 10: particular ways for one reason in some areas and different in other areas and um and so but at the

[0:33:17] Voice 10: the same time we don't necessarily control all aspects of the problem so trying to figure out

[0:33:22] Voice 10: how to work and build and do things in ways that are still towards the items trust mandate and that

[0:33:28] Voice 10: are healthy like healthy and safe for people here i don't want to see somebody burned out in a

[0:33:32] Voice 10: right so like that and and you know just but i also want to see people be able to live here so

[0:33:40] Voice 10: it's the dilemma we're facing of like is there really safe housing like how you know once we

[0:33:45] Voice 10: change a rule to allow that what does that do in terms of how it could propagate other things that

[0:33:51] Voice 10: are not safe potentially and so that's that's the risk factor yeah no i don't want to get totally

[0:33:59] Voice 10: into a debate but no

[0:34:01] Voice 9: no just i don't need to totally debate i would just say that that people

[0:34:05] Voice 9: all are already living in these decrepit living situations and that having them illegal and having

[0:34:10] Voice 9: that lack of security makes it worse i

[0:34:14] Voice 12: understand and we should you should know trust council did

[0:34:17] Voice 12: pass a housing equity and workforce shortage crises declaration this this week and we'll be

[0:34:23] Voice 12: we this is happening everywhere it's just don't get me going okay kim

[0:34:29] Voice 9: thank you sure

[0:34:30] Voice 9: doctor i did receive an email from lauren dingman who's the manager of compliance and enforcement

[0:34:35] Voice 9: and he is available for an in-camera session today if the lgc wanted to schedule one before

[0:34:41] Voice 9: I guess

[0:34:45] Voice 12: so if you let him know that that would be perfect

[0:34:47] Trustee McConchie: thank you and

[0:34:49] Voice 12: the agenda uh if I can just

[0:34:52] Trustee McConchie: add one more political statement thank you for your comments Rob Suzanne and I appreciate your

[0:34:57] Trustee McConchie: family coming to the aid and those folks making this a public issue that needs to be discussed

[0:35:01] Trustee McConchie: it's the first time I've seen this happen now my political comment is it'll be great CRD and

[0:35:09] Trustee McConchie: the province stepped up rather than the island's trust step up we're doing what we can to address

[0:35:14] Trustee McConchie: this under our limited under our limitations but your local representative adam wilson mla your

[0:35:21] Trustee McConchie: local representative date house crd these are also folks to contact to pursue this issue further

[0:35:27] Trustee McConchie: thank

[0:35:29] Voice 12: you i'm going to keep moving down this row anyone else on that row getting down toward

[0:35:34] Voice 12: michael sketch over here but yep just sort of running down this road here so michael sketch

[0:35:42] Voice 17: Michael Skech, North, George Pender. In about 2005, when the occurrence of Otter Bay development

[0:35:51] Voice 17: was evident in the density of dwellings on that formerly quiet little bay was very, very

[0:36:00] Voice 17: evident. The issue of C2 zoning density arose and there was a lot of controversy. I was

[0:36:07] Voice 17: was politically involved at the time, and I went to two trustees, and the answer was,

[0:36:13] Voice 17: we're not going to touch the C2 zoning density, because we would like to be elected next term.

[0:36:18] Voice 17: And that was the end of that. I'm not joking. The issue of C2 zoning has come up again with

[0:36:27] Voice 17: this land use bylaw review, and there was a, if I may, a point of bifurcation right

[0:36:35] Voice 17: we're going to do a discussion. Do we address C2 flooding density on North Hendrick?

[0:36:41] Voice 17: We wish to be rural over again at the ALCCCF table. This is a rural island or semi-rural island.

[0:36:50] Voice 17: Let's maintain the ruralness. Invested a vast amount in water studies. We want to be sustainable

[0:37:00] with respect to groundwater. We don't want more density than our groundwater can provide.

[0:37:06] So the bifurcation point could have begun with a discussion at groundwater with Mr.

[0:37:13] Scholder's report or that sort of rationale to discuss density,

[0:37:20] Voice 17: what's over density, what's

[0:37:22] Voice 17: potentially dangerous, and to realize that once density is put in place, it is politically

[0:37:29] Voice 17: inconvenient to back down, back off.

[0:37:33] Voice 17: And yet, that density was put in 25 years ago by lots of spare space and really no ground

[0:37:40] Voice 17: water concerns.

[0:37:41] Voice 17: It was just put in.

[0:37:42] Voice 17: And it's time to realize there are cases, and C2 zoning is one of them, to back off

[0:37:49] Voice 17: that density.

[0:37:50] Voice 17: And what are the consequences?

[0:37:52] Voice 17: We've heard today from people who purchased in good faith, although be it.

[0:37:58] Voice 17: I know the properties of people who sold them these properties.

[0:38:02] Voice 17: I know the

[0:38:02] Voice 17: history of the properties.

[0:38:03] Voice 17: I know I've

[0:38:04] Voice 17: lived on one of them for six months.

[0:38:07] Voice 17: Groundwater was a crisis then.

[0:38:09] Voice 17: One of the landowners hydro-fractured his well,

[0:38:12] Voice 17: removed water from a neighbor,

[0:38:15] Voice 17: just can trickle through with three or four bodies.

[0:38:18] Voice 17: What's the answer?

[0:38:19] Voice 17: No trouble at all.

[0:38:20] Voice 17: We put in 25,000 gallons of water story.

[0:38:23] Voice 17: So why is Mr. Schulbe doing his expensive study,

[0:38:27] Voice 17: groundwater study?

[0:38:28] Voice 17: Why on earth should he do that?

[0:38:29] Voice 17: If everyone who comes to the table

[0:38:32] Voice 17: With a wish for 1980s density, it is granted that density, simply by putting in storage.

[0:38:40] Voice 17: And then we come to another site-specific, and that's how the C2 zoning is being addressed

[0:38:46] Voice 17: now.

[0:38:47] Voice 17: The bifurcation went one way and didn't discuss the other.

[0:38:52] Voice 17: And it's gone to site-specific consideration of individual parcels with C2 density zoning.

[0:38:58] Voice 17: And the last one to hit the fan was at a closed meeting, and the public learned that there

[0:39:05] Voice 17: was a suggestion on the table which is now up for draft land use by-law in behind the

[0:39:12] Voice 17: driftwood for affordable housing.

[0:39:14] Voice 17: I think there are 27 units allowed on a big parcel.

[0:39:19] Voice 17: There's a sewage disposal field which, with respect, is challenged.

[0:39:23] Voice 17: Not long ago, there was a dumping of excess water from a hydrant right beside the True

[0:39:31] Valley, and I walked across it and smelled it, and I

[0:39:34] Voice 17: trapped that stuff into the True

[0:39:37] Voice 17: Valley.

[0:39:38] Voice 17: To say that Sue's disposal field is adequate when the runoff carries a smell across the

[0:39:44] Voice 17: parking lot is ludicrous.

[0:39:47] Voice 17: And, you know, there's one complaint.

[0:39:49] Voice 17: Is that an issue?

[0:39:50] Voice 17: Are we going to have another flood?

[0:39:52] Voice 17: And yet, at the same time, a consideration was almost de facto that the same density, by that I mean the ratio of floor area and property size, be allowed right behind the driftwood for housing.

[0:40:07] Voice 17: Yes, we have a screaming need for affordable seniors' housing.

[0:40:12] But let's think that's true as an issue.

[0:40:15] Where should it go?

[0:40:16] should be distributed access to services transportation as an integrated really

[0:40:23] important subject with full community

[0:40:26] Voice 17: involved and not shoved in as a side thought and a political

[0:40:30] Voice 17: expedient it allowed you to follow review please do

[0:40:35] Voice 12: um further down i'm just going to press that

[0:40:39] Voice 12: sort of middle row right behind the michael there i'm sorry you're next sir hi my name is

[0:40:46] Voice 12: Kathy Allison. And I just have a question. I mean, all of these, you know, are so important. I feel guilty even

[0:40:54] Voice 4: talking about this. I know we have a meeting in February about the square footage issue and everything like that. And maybe I missed it somewhere in the paperwork. So I just wanted to ask, in terms of like, a number was thrown out at 2500 square feet. And I know, I don't have a house that

[0:41:17] it might be 1800 but i'm just hypothetically you know talking about this because i see

[0:41:22] even now like uh you know with my kids who have moved back to their house burned down

[0:41:27] so with all the people you know i can see how people could see at meeting you know

[0:41:33] working from home and meeting with space and so and then with uh possibly you know seniors

[0:41:40] Voice 4: moving in and et cetera et cetera so and looking at that in terms of consideration especially with

[0:41:45] Voice 4: housing and you know being able to house more people but the question that i had is let's say

[0:41:51] Voice 4: in terms of the square footage what did that include like does that include everything on

[0:41:57] Voice 4: your property um you know i know that in in terms of us in terms of that sort of grandfather clause

[0:42:04] Voice 4: and i i didn't see that because i know it said if you already have a house and and that whole

[0:42:10] Voice 4: issue but then what about if you had a storage shed and you had is does that count in sort of

[0:42:17] Voice 4: that burndown situation and also in going forward let's say it was the 2,500 square feet

[0:42:24] Voice 4: does that include all the impermeable surfaces because I look at that for consideration

[0:42:31] if it did the

[0:42:34] Voice 4: land is also different for me I couldn't get out of my house unless I had

[0:42:39] Voice 4: all these steps going down so that's being counted in it i'd be having like 200 square feet of steps

[0:42:46] Voice 4: so i'm just wasn't sure about that so um is it just primary residence and then uh resident and

[0:42:55] then you can have you know other outbuildings wood storage chicken coop i don't know anyway

[0:43:03] Voice 4: that's all they have to ask well

[0:43:05] Voice 12: thank you for asking that question i think that's something

[0:43:08] Voice 12: we are we'll be discussing because though that went as we look at the bylaw so I don't we don't

[0:43:13] Voice 12: have an answer for you those are things that we are considering so thank you for asking that

[0:43:19] Voice 12: yes next

[0:43:26] Voice 21: and um I just I guess what I wanted to ask is that there seems to be a

[0:43:41] Voice 21: is on a complaint basis with very little follow-up to what the initial complaint is

[0:43:51] Voice 21: as far as investigation or discussion when somebody writes a letter in in the spring

[0:44:03] Voice 21: where basically one email sent was enough to put me in non-compliant advantage then as well

[0:44:22] Voice 21: Well, it didn't seem like there was any contravention of that bylaw to start with, yet there was no real further investigation done to block that out.

[0:44:37] Voice 21: It became almost a personal type opinion between myself and the bylaw officer, saying that he believed one thing to be true, not to be, but therefore he, being the bylaw officer, his opinion trumps mine.

[0:44:57] Voice 21: it was made it through the entire summer and then I was because the islands trust

[0:45:15] Voice 21: didn't really have ability to enforce what they were trying to say I was

[0:45:21] Voice 21: contravening which was my original position right from and it feels like

[0:45:27] Voice 21: there becomes this antagonistic work between the bylaw and residents who

[0:45:37] Voice 21: asked in a personal sort of a battle with people and I think that's something

[0:45:54] Voice 21: that the trust should look at putting together a different set of steps for when somebody makes

[0:46:01] Voice 21: a complaint that it's actually investigated to the validity of that complaint before it becomes an

[0:46:08] Voice 21: open um open issue in in the case of some of the people that bring up stuff with the trailers like

[0:46:17] Voice 21: if that was walked through and it was understood it didn't need to be an issue

[0:46:24] Voice 21: it could have been investigated deemed to be and then they could open up and say we need to fix this

[0:46:34] Voice 21: somehow for myself no one ever came deep to the fact that i hadn't intervened the way that they

[0:47:00] Voice 21: weren't allowed to just say you know what this is a table let's let's just close it because once it

[0:47:07] Voice 21: was open hope that says that they actually could have been the case because there was a hard line

[0:47:22] Voice 21: be taken right off that ready this was going through stuff like this that

[0:47:31] Voice 21: locally be able to step in and deal with stuff like that thanks

[0:47:40] Voice 10: for bringing that

[0:47:40] Voice 10: up and I know it was a hassle last summer so thanks for bringing that up

[0:47:45] Voice 5: here

[0:47:46] Voice 10: all right yes yeah

[0:47:48] Voice 5: that's

[0:48:41] Voice 10: I think the discussion this afternoon like that

[0:48:44] Voice 10: we need to have about that which way to go because you do have to put some kind

[0:48:47] Voice 10: of specification it can either be a standing resolution to pause all this

[0:48:52] Voice 10: this type until further notice, or it could be until a specific date, and we have to kind

[0:48:56] Voice 10: of decide which way to go.

[0:48:58] Voice 5: So that's part of how a lot of the causes, what the clarity are, is that I've seen past

[0:49:13] the general cause, it's not local, it's regional, CRD, it's small community, it's the power.

[0:50:36] All

[0:51:02] Voice 12: right, anyone else today?

[0:51:07] Voice 12: That's all

[0:51:08] Voice 12: right, thank you for your feedback today.

[0:51:11] Voice 12: your trustees always want to hear from you so please uh email if you if you want to have a

[0:51:16] Voice 12: broad statement to all of us it's uh south info at islandstrust.bc.ca and that comes to us it

[0:51:23] Voice 12: comes to staff goes on the record um and uh or pick up the phone call call and talk to us we

[0:51:29] Voice 12: do want to hear your comments they are important to us okay i need to take a moment and just get

[0:51:35] Voice 12: Yeah, let's take a five-minute stretching break before we dive

[0:51:39] Voice 6: into the next.

[0:51:40] Voice 12: All right.

[0:51:41] Voice 12: Thank you.

[0:51:41] Voice 12: So five minutes.

[0:51:55] Voice 17: I'm just telling you to Karen and Steve.

[0:52:00] Steve

[0:52:15] Voice 9: said he was going to be here.

[0:52:16] Voice 5: Yeah, I'm just texting.

[0:52:17] Voice 5: Okay.

[0:52:18] Voice 9: And Cam can't be here.

[0:52:20] Voice 5: Okay.

[0:52:25] Voice 5: I have

[0:52:49] Voice 9: a couple of different options.

[0:53:16] Voice 12: you can hear us

[0:53:19] Voice 12: okay thumbs up yeah

[0:53:20] Planner Testemale: so the um the lives i can't part of the problem is

[0:53:24] Planner Testemale: this happened on main as well you can't um watch the live stream and listen at the same time it

[0:53:31] Planner Testemale: rides over each other and it's out of sync so but yeah it and i think the live stream went off for a

[0:53:36] Planner Testemale: bit but okay

[0:53:38] Voice 12: but it's back up running again yeah it's

[0:53:40] Voice 12: a funny wi-fi here it comes and goes

[0:53:41] Voice 12: yeah

[0:53:42] Planner Testemale: yeah but no it all's good so yeah okay thanks

[0:56:26] Voice 6: all right

[0:57:03] Voice 12: are we ready all right we're gonna get back we're gonna get back to business now

[0:57:08] Voice 12: Thanks again. So we're moving forward. We have a couple sets of minutes here. So we have our first set of minutes from a special meeting we had on October 22nd. Are there any additions or corrections that need to be made to those minutes? Can we approve those through general consent?

[0:57:24] Voice 14: Excellent.

[0:57:25] Voice 12: Then we have our minutes from a regular meeting from October 28th. Are there any changes or corrections? And we can adopt those through general consent.

[0:57:35] Voice 12: said okay that brings us to the follow-up action list that's on page 19 of the agenda package are

[0:57:43] Voice 12: there any questions for staff or anything that staff need to bring to our attention

[0:57:46] Voice 12: any questions for staff um

[0:57:59] Voice 10: oh i did want to actually ask um or yes i have one question

[0:58:04] Voice 10: yeah go ahead um kim the south pander island trustee is their invitation for today's meeting

[0:58:10] Voice 10: um did they was it by email or like

[0:58:13] Voice 9: how it was by email so i contacted uh the trustee by email

[0:58:17] Voice 9: i'm trustee cameron thorne says his regrets but trustee steve wright is aware of the meeting and

[0:58:23] Trustee McConchie: can't any trustee thorne problem most of them have to be distracted oh yeah because he his

[0:58:28] Trustee McConchie: plans changed okay there

[0:58:30] Voice 10: you go okay great okay um so that's terrific great um i do just in

[0:58:38] Voice 10: In things like that specifically, I'm wondering if we don't, if you heard from both of them, so that's okay.

[0:58:44] Voice 10: But if we don't hear from them, can we have like a standing sort of policy that we just follow up with one call?

[0:58:48] Voice 10: Because I know I'm the worst person to get, and so I wouldn't want to miss a meeting like that.

[0:58:54] Voice 10: Thank you.

[0:58:54] Voice 12: All right. Any other questions?

[0:58:57] Voice 12: Then we're going to go on.

[0:58:58] Voice 12: So we did just receive, just to note, we did get a couple of pieces of correspondence we received in person today.

[0:59:04] Voice 12: Trustees have read that.

[0:59:05] Voice 12: That'll be added to the correspondence.

[0:59:07] Voice 12: We have now, we'll go to 12.1 on the agenda,

[0:59:11] Voice 12: development of variance permit 2021.5 Billingsley.

[0:59:16] Voice 12: And we have a staff report on page 23.

[0:59:20] Voice 12: And I believe Phil is gonna be coming to us

[0:59:23] Voice 12: from the microphones here.

[0:59:24] Voice 12: So over to you on your testimony.

[0:59:27] Planner Testemale: Thanks Chair Patrick.

[0:59:29] Planner Testemale: So a DVP 2021.5 is for 4614 Razor Point Road.

[0:59:36] Planner Testemale: and the purpose of the report is to consider a development variance permit

[0:59:40] Planner Testemale: and the variances are for the height of an accessory building

[0:59:43] Planner Testemale: that is being converted from a dwelling.

[0:59:46] Planner Testemale: The rationale for granting the variance given

[0:59:49] Planner Testemale: is that it will facilitate the conversion of the dwelling

[0:59:52] Planner Testemale: to an accessory building.

[0:59:54] Planner Testemale: It will avoid the demolition or significant alteration

[0:59:57] Planner Testemale: to the historic building.

[1:00:00] Planner Testemale: and it'll allow for the construction of a new dwelling on the property.

[1:00:04] Planner Testemale: So the variances are actually to the general regulations, the land use bylaw, which would

[1:00:09] Planner Testemale: be to increase the maximum height for an accessory building from 4.6 meters to 5.46 meters.

[1:00:17] Planner Testemale: The dwelling is 85.5 square meters in size with an attached carport, and it was constructed

[1:00:23] Planner Testemale: in 1974.

[1:00:24] Planner Testemale: And with the exception of the small deck and stairs, the building is what's termed legally

[1:00:29] Planner Testemale: non-conforming for siting to the natural boundary of the sea which is a 15 meter setback. So in

[1:00:36] Planner Testemale: addition to the height variance the building permit will require or have a condition for the

[1:00:42] Planner Testemale: new dwelling to also reduce the basement height to under 1.5 meters either by filling or structurally

[1:00:49] Planner Testemale: altering and removing the kitchen and also removing a small deck and stairs on the south

[1:00:55] Planner Testemale: part of the building and that second stairs was built more recently so it doesn't have the same

[1:01:01] Planner Testemale: status as the building itself the alternatives that are available to the to the applicant or

[1:01:08] Planner Testemale: to actually structurally alter the roof to conform to the height restriction that was explored but

[1:01:13] Planner Testemale: deemed not practical and would also significantly alter the character of the building or

[1:01:20] Planner Testemale: alternatively they could convert the subject building by reducing it to a maximum size of

[1:01:25] Planner Testemale: 56 meters squared which would allow it to be considered a cottage which is allowable by zoning

[1:01:30] Planner Testemale: on this property again this wasn't feasible or preferable as the owners appreciate the character

[1:01:37] Planner Testemale: of the building its location on the site and sorry and its location on the site of the original

[1:01:42] Planner Testemale: bracket family homestead and lastly they do not wish to demolish or substantially alter the

[1:01:49] Planner Testemale: the building the alternatives further alternatives if the variance is not granted are to apply to a

[1:01:56] Planner Testemale: border the border variance or to comply with the bylaw regulations by either removing the building

[1:02:01] Planner Testemale: or altering it to conform impacts on the neighboring properties are minimal given the

[1:02:07] Planner Testemale: age of the building and in its current form and additionally the height variance itself is

[1:02:14] Planner Testemale: actually quite minor so the siting on the building sorry on the property makes it more prominent from

[1:02:21] Planner Testemale: the surrounding water support browning i think everybody's familiar with this red building with

[1:02:26] Planner Testemale: white trim however the scale and character of the building is also consistent with the intent

[1:02:32] Planner Testemale: of the regulation so maintaining the existing building will benefit the natural environment

[1:02:37] Planner Testemale: as greenhouse gas emissions that would occur with demolition and new construction would be mitigated

[1:02:43] Planner Testemale: with a variance approval so the dvp notices were circulated to surrounding property owners and

[1:02:49] Planner Testemale: residents staff did receive a letter of support last week from the immediate neighbors to the

[1:02:55] Planner Testemale: each sorry to the east which was forwarded to the ltc and just a personal note it was a wonderful

[1:03:02] Planner Testemale: thing to see a handwritten letter which we tend to never see anymore so staff's recommendation

[1:03:09] Planner Testemale: recommendation is that the DVP be approved for issuance and that's based on the fact that the

[1:03:17] Planner Testemale: rationale or sorry based on the opinion that the rationale for the variance is reasonable. The

[1:03:22] Planner Testemale: impacts to neighboring properties are minimal. The variance doesn't challenge the intent of the

[1:03:26] Planner Testemale: regulation and that neighbors have been notified and to date we've received one letter of support

[1:03:33] Planner Testemale: That's my report.

[1:03:35] Voice 12: Thank you.

[1:03:36] Voice 12: Is the applicant with us today?

[1:03:39] Voice 12: Hi.

[1:03:39] Voice 12: Thank you.

[1:03:39] Voice 12: Is there anything you wish to add?

[1:03:43] Voice 5: You know, I think Bill has done a great job of summarizing all the facts.

[1:03:48] Voice 5: What I would like to add is that Patty and I have last 30 years, the kids have moved

[1:03:59] Voice 5: and we like to be able to build a house. We're in the permanent review process and we understand

[1:04:16] that the plans that we put forward are acceptable with the exception of how we deal. So to us,

[1:04:30] the house is not an icon in the community. It is not particularly tall. I think it's

[1:04:41] just a cute little older cottage which we much prefer to

[1:04:45] Voice 5: put it in place as opposed to you know

[1:04:49] Voice 5: i mean our please in terms of removing the kitchen from the ceiling findings and doing all that

[1:05:06] thank

[1:05:09] Voice 5: you we

[1:05:32] Voice 12: may have some questions for you as we uh carry on our discussions trustees over to you

[1:05:36] Trustee McConchie: so first thanks for coming today uh and thanks for taking the time the first thing i want to

[1:05:42] Trustee McConchie: make really clear the way i look at this particular application is we the trust committee

[1:05:46] Trustee McConchie: is not going to make you tear down your house it would be your decision to tear down the house

[1:05:50] Trustee McConchie: right as a whatever the decision of the trust committee makes so um this is really interesting

[1:05:57] Trustee McConchie: application i spent a lot of time thinking about this um the question before the trust committee

[1:06:04] Trustee McConchie: is do we grant a variance for height it's kind of that simple the but then there's these other

[1:06:11] Trustee McConchie: issues that i don't even know if we want to bring into the application which is essentially taking

[1:06:16] Trustee McConchie: a house and and we've just heard about a lack of housing and now that we're being asked to approve

[1:06:23] Trustee McConchie: basically removing a house and turning it into an accessory building and it just it just feels weird

[1:06:31] Trustee McConchie: you know but but i understand the logic behind what you're saying they want to the rules say

[1:06:36] Trustee McConchie: they can't they can't have more than two houses on a property right so that's why i found this

[1:06:43] Trustee McConchie: quite challenging not for the specific like the specific question is should we grant a variance

[1:06:47] Trustee McConchie: for a height so do we just do so what i'm curious to know what the fellow my fellow trustees think

[1:06:52] Trustee McConchie: about uh how we look at the discussion you know is this part of a broader thing or do we just

[1:06:58] Trustee McConchie: specifically just addresses case-by-case basis so that's kind of how i wanted to start the

[1:07:04] Trustee McConchie: conversation yeah

[1:07:06] Voice 10: i i actually had it for another reason that's not directly related to the

[1:07:10] Voice 10: application but um so and i agree like from the strict issue of the height variation on the

[1:07:16] Voice 10: accessory building this seems to me not a problem to approve the height variation so that seems like

[1:07:22] Voice 10: Like, let's just say that.

[1:07:25] Voice 10: My concern was that because this is a variance application and because you're here and we can talk to you, one of the things that I have concerns about is actually, so what you said, like, I don't actually want to create a defunct building if it's already there.

[1:07:41] Voice 10: I kind of want it to be a usable building that somebody could live in if there's that potential.

[1:07:46] Voice 10: Because it's already there.

[1:07:47] Voice 10: It's already a functional building.

[1:07:49] Voice 10: We're just putting another building on the property.

[1:07:51] Voice 10: there's some issues about like is there enough sewer capacity then for two families there's

[1:07:55] Voice 10: other issues that have to be sort of thought through but um my question was about um in the

[1:08:02] Voice 10: building of your new house this is a known archaeological area right and so is there

[1:08:09] Voice 10: i saw phil what you had mentioned in the comments i had to look through those but my question was

[1:08:15] Voice 10: has there been an actual site visit or conversation with the First Nations in

[1:08:21] Voice 10: the area? I highly suggest that that be part of this application because if it's

[1:08:28] Voice 10: not then we are not actually holding up our already passed mandates for

[1:08:32] Voice 10: reconciliation given that it's a known archaeological site. So and so maybe

[1:08:38] Voice 10: either the applicant and or Phil want to comment on that because I'm curious what

[1:08:43] Voice 10: what active consent-based conversations got on here.

[1:08:49] Voice 10: I

[1:08:50] Voice 5: mean, so at the very beginning of this process,

[1:08:53] before we

[1:08:56] Voice 5: get there,

[1:09:02] Voice 5: and what they do is they provide

[1:09:05] Voice 5: their mapping tools

[1:09:07] Voice 5: to show you on your property,

[1:09:11] and the new house is moved significantly

[1:09:18] back up across the beach.

[1:09:25] so in my view that is in the category where to pursue it which bill

[1:09:55] Voice 10: do you want to add anything

[1:09:56] Planner Testemale: um yeah sorry and it is somewhat difficult to hear um mr billingsley but um i yeah so i'm not

[1:10:05] Planner Testemale: sure what was said there but um as part of this application it was reviewed by um by our first

[1:10:12] Planner Testemale: nations or sorry our intergovernmental senior advisor and um it was noted that there is no

[1:10:18] Planner Testemale: construction um associated with this particular application and the other part of it is is that

[1:10:25] Planner Testemale: um and i'm not leading you to where you may be going but we cannot or the trust committee cannot

[1:10:31] Planner Testemale: put conditions in a development variance permit uh similarly a board of variants can't do that

[1:10:36] Planner Testemale: nor can you make it conditional so you can't say we're going to grant this if they have you know

[1:10:42] Planner Testemale: as you've you know positively suggested that um you know first nations come as part of the

[1:10:48] Planner Testemale: application so our role is obviously as part of reconciliation and um and our procedures is to

[1:10:56] Planner Testemale: is basically give the information to the to the applicants and give them as much direction as we

[1:11:03] Planner Testemale: can which we've done so um

[1:11:06] Voice 10: and then the other question i had bill was related to so like if

[1:11:10] Voice 10: If this house was on a lake, there would be a riparian area development permit that would click in just because this property has part of water frontage on it.

[1:11:20] Voice 10: But we don't have such a thing on North Pender, do we, in terms of the

[1:11:23] Planner Testemale: marine?

[1:11:26] Planner Testemale: Well, so there's a 15-meter setback, and sorry, in the report, and I kind of, because I was

[1:11:32] Planner Testemale: summarizing, I skimmed over it.

[1:11:34] Planner Testemale: But so this building was built in 1974, essentially in its current form.

[1:11:40] Planner Testemale: It did, I mean, Mr. Billingsley can give you the history, but it's, I think, the latest iteration of numerous houses that were on that site historically.

[1:11:51] Planner Testemale: The Brackets had built, who were, I understand, were homesteaders.

[1:11:56] Planner Testemale: But because it was built in 1974, and actually the amendment to the zoning bylaw, which was at that time the CRD bylaw, didn't come into effect until 1978.

[1:12:13] Planner Testemale: So the building itself has legal non-conforming status.

[1:12:17] Planner Testemale: And so that means it can stay, it can be maintained in its current form where it's sitting.

[1:12:23] Voice 10: Sorry, I'm not being clear at all, Phil.

[1:12:26] Voice 10: oh

[1:12:26] Planner Testemale: sorry all

[1:12:27] Voice 10: of that i know i know the site quite well um

[1:12:29] Voice 15: oh sorry not

[1:12:30] Voice 10: a problem with any of that

[1:12:31] Voice 10: my question is very specifically i understand the variance too that like we can't alter or

[1:12:37] Voice 10: qualify a variance it's a yes or

[1:12:39] Voice 10: no um so i

[1:12:40] Voice 10: get that so i guess my question is my side tangent

[1:12:44] Voice 10: question is related to the new building do they require any kind of development permit area on

[1:12:52] Voice 10: the new building no so that that's a little bit of a gap that we have on north but

[1:12:57] Planner Testemale: the sighting

[1:12:58] Planner Testemale: of the new building sorry um is actually beyond my understanding is beyond the 15 meter setback so

[1:13:07] Planner Testemale: it

[1:13:07] Voice 10: could be but it may still be within a cultural boundary mapping or other type of mapping which

[1:13:12] Voice 10: we're working on so and i'm not going to go into that i don't actually need to because none of

[1:13:16] Voice 10: that's in play right now so that's that's okay okay let's come back to your point and like

[1:13:22] Voice 10: if

[1:13:22] Trustee McConchie: if the bylaw said you could have this how much is the square footage of this

[1:13:29] Trustee McConchie: house um

[1:13:30] Planner Testemale: about 800

[1:13:32] Trustee McConchie: just about 900 square

[1:13:33] Planner Testemale: feet it's 800 square feet oh

[1:13:35] Trustee McConchie: sorry and our bylaw for

[1:13:37] Trustee McConchie: cottages is 600 right now right uh

[1:13:39] Planner Testemale: yeah 500 or 56

[1:13:41] Trustee McConchie: we changed the bylaw to 800 square feet

[1:13:43] Trustee McConchie: that the trust committee changed the bottom uh yeah you'd keep it as a cottage that would

[1:13:49] Trustee McConchie: obviously

[1:13:50] Voice 18: be our preference so

[1:13:51] Trustee McConchie: this is the important part of this

[1:13:53] Voice 18: discussion this is

[1:13:54] Voice 18: why i thought about this this isn't just about all the conversation earlier yeah

[1:13:58] Voice 6: i know living

[1:13:58] Voice 6: in this

[1:13:59] Voice 18: is what i'm saying makes it

[1:14:00] Voice 18: all seem yeah so

[1:14:02] Trustee McConchie: they're they're asking for a height variance

[1:14:06] Trustee McConchie: separate issue for me go for it height variance great i support that now and you want to convert

[1:14:12] Trustee McConchie: it to an accessory building cool the only problem is why aren't we addressing this if if the

[1:14:18] Trustee McConchie: applicant is suggesting that they they would if bylaw changed they would keep it as a cottage

[1:14:22] Trustee McConchie: potentially rent it why yeah

[1:14:25] Voice 10: so why

[1:14:26] Trustee McConchie: are we not addressing that issue yeah

[1:14:28] Voice 10: can we can this

[1:14:29] Voice 10: variance instead be a variance to maintain it as a cottage no no

[1:14:32] Planner Testemale: so i just want to clarify something

[1:14:34] Planner Testemale: so right now um the the square footage or the maximum size for a cottage is part of the

[1:14:40] Planner Testemale: the definition section of the land use bylaw and when you get kim's report on the land use bylaw

[1:14:45] Planner Testemale: is one of the recommendations or going forward is that that be taken out because that fact means

[1:14:51] Planner Testemale: that we cannot because it's part of the definition section we you cannot pass pass a variance for

[1:14:58] Planner Testemale: that so if it goes into the general regulations which is the suggestion and kim can correct me

[1:15:03] Planner Testemale: here if i'm wrong is at that point then you they could come back to you and say we have this 800

[1:15:11] Planner Testemale: square foot cottage we don't want to alter it we'd like a variance for that size and so that's

[1:15:17] Planner Testemale: what the aim of the land use bylaw is doing so this is i mean i don't want to predict what the

[1:15:22] Planner Testemale: billingsley would like to do this this this um building in the long run but i would predict

[1:15:28] Planner Testemale: maybe that they will come back to you once the land use bylaw has been amended so yeah so then

[1:15:35] Trustee McConchie: on that note can i make a motion uh that the north manor island local trust committee approved

[1:15:41] Trustee McConchie: issuance of development permit variance permit application and pdvp 2021.5 buildings

[1:15:47] Trustee McConchie: is

[1:15:49] Voice 12: there a second second by trustee morrison discussion and

[1:15:51] Trustee McConchie: the discussion is uh basically

[1:15:53] Trustee McConchie: Basically, Jim, this is what I think would be interesting is we are willing to grant this variance in support of it for height, obviously just having to reflect on what we've heard from the community today about taking housing out.

[1:16:08] Trustee McConchie: And I guess it's up to you guys to do with your property, but it sure is kind of weird to get rid of a house.

[1:16:14] Trustee McConchie: you know so uh so it's an interesting issue to bring up and uh i uh i wanted to thank you for

[1:16:21] Trustee McConchie: going through the various bureaucratic machinations that's all i had to say i would

[1:16:25] Voice 10: also um like to

[1:16:27] Voice 10: suggest that maybe you are not rapid in how you move take out the kitchen in this situation um

[1:16:35] Voice 10: because one of the things that could happen is if there was a bylaw enforcement issue maybe it

[1:16:40] Voice 10: affects your building permit problem like there's a couple of that is even there's a delay in that

[1:16:45] Voice 10: it's just an

[1:16:45] Voice 10: occupancy that it affects um that you may be delay on that and if there's a bylaw

[1:16:49] Voice 10: enforcement issue i would love to hear that and think about how we could help with that

[1:16:54] Voice 10: because it

[1:16:54] Voice 10: would be if i agree it would be very frustrating to lose a house that is already in

[1:16:59] Voice 10: place if you have a willingness to be able to rent it you

[1:17:02] Trustee McConchie: also you want to proceed with the

[1:17:04] Trustee McConchie: your construction yeah your second well at the

[1:17:06] Voice 5: moment we just want to get out of

[1:17:11] Voice 5: the building department my understanding is that the renovation or retrofit of the barack

[1:17:20] Voice 5: coast will be a contingency to getting occupancy that's right so so we've got we've got some time

[1:17:30] Voice 5: hopefully hopefully your violence will will change in the interim yeah i think that's probably true

[1:17:38] Voice 5: then we can come back to you yeah that'd

[1:17:40] Voice 7: be great thank you thank you very much

[1:17:43] Voice 7: just one

[1:17:44] Planner Testemale: i'm just going to add just for the trustees um they there's nothing else she's

[1:17:50] Planner Testemale: stopping the buildings from also constructing a new cottage at this point in time and also they

[1:17:56] Planner Testemale: can have a secondary suite in their new home as well so in terms of the housing so thank you

[1:18:04] Voice 12: perfect thanks very

[1:18:05] Planner Testemale: much all right

[1:18:07] Voice 12: i'm going to call the vote all those in favor

[1:18:09] Voice 12: and that's carried so thank you very much all right all right so now we're going to move on to

[1:18:20] Voice 12: the uh next uh application 12.2 it's a temporary use permit 2021.7 harwood and that's on page 45

[1:18:29] Voice 12: five of our staff report and over to you phil thank

[1:18:33] Planner Testemale: you patrick so this is for 3601 sailor

[1:18:36] Planner Testemale: easement which is actually accessed by ketch road as we've heard from neighbors who've made their

[1:18:43] Planner Testemale: presentations as part of the town hall so the application is for a tup for a self-storage

[1:18:49] Planner Testemale: operation on the subject property and this is a preliminary report an assessment that includes

[1:18:55] Planner Testemale: includes background information and analysis and the proposed draft permit and so as was indicated

[1:19:02] Planner Testemale: the use has been going on for 13 years and it's accessed from Ketch Road the applicant the

[1:19:09] Planner Testemale: application is a result of the bylaw enforcement file which was initiated by a stop work order

[1:19:15] Planner Testemale: placed by the CRD building inspection department and referred to the Islands Trust the extent of

[1:19:20] Planner Testemale: the use in its current form is shown on figure two and that includes 12 individual storage units

[1:19:27] Planner Testemale: within four shipping containers and there is some our capacity for rv storage so the applicant's

[1:19:34] Planner Testemale: rationale for the application is to comply with the land use regulations and to continue that

[1:19:39] Planner Testemale: use in its current location so the subject property is about one acre in size and it's

[1:19:46] Planner Testemale: long and narrow in configuration with a flat area access from Ketch Road where the use is located

[1:19:52] Planner Testemale: that transitions to a steeply forested slope with a dwelling on the upper level which is access from

[1:19:58] Planner Testemale: Sailor Easement. So adjacent to the end to the southwest of this property is the Flycatcher

[1:20:05] Planner Testemale: Forest which is held by the Islands Trust Conservancy. So there's no construction or

[1:20:10] Planner Testemale: land alteration associated with the application. The applicants have provided their sample contract

[1:20:16] Planner Testemale: between businesses and renters and that was attachment three so just on a preliminary basis

[1:20:22] Planner Testemale: of issues and opportunities discussion of the purpose and utility of the temporary use

[1:20:30] Planner Testemale: of temporary use permits in general and the applicant's rationale has been made in the

[1:20:36] Planner Testemale: staff report and to discuss potential impacts on direct neighbors in the local neighborhood

[1:20:42] Planner Testemale: They're summarized as being primarily visual, particularly the given form and character of shipping containers themselves, the increased traffic in a residential area, and the noise and nuisance from unregulated access.

[1:20:57] Planner Testemale: So it's noted and it was pointed out that the dwelling on the neighboring property to the east is directly adjacent to the use area and the dwelling on the other property to the west is actually more distant.

[1:21:14] Planner Testemale: The report notes that the use has been located on a portion of the property that is distant, isolated and visually screened from the owner's dwelling above on sailor easement.

[1:21:23] Planner Testemale: And that not only requires them to drive to access the business and use area, it also means that they are not presented with any of the impacts from that use that the neighbors below on Ketch Road must manage.

[1:21:36] Planner Testemale: There's a discussion about the non-suitability of this use, sorry, given the location and the neighborhood context, and particularly the zoning.

[1:21:45] Planner Testemale: And with that expectations are that development and uses will be consistent with those permitted in the land use bylaw and further that the continued use places the business itself and an economic advantage over similar businesses that are located on appropriately zoned lands or with approved permits and the associated costs that come with that.

[1:22:10] Planner Testemale: So of note two, consideration should be given to the potential precedent with the impacts from

[1:22:19] Planner Testemale: approving a non-compatible use and given that the business was established without required land use

[1:22:26] Planner Testemale: approvals. So staff's opinion is that the use should not be supported in its current location

[1:22:33] Planner Testemale: in the long term. However, in consideration of the current land use by-law project and proposed

[1:22:39] Planner Testemale: changes to create a general industrial zone, which would be an appropriate zone, and apply those to

[1:22:46] Planner Testemale: more island properties, it would be reasonable to proceed with the application with a two-year

[1:22:51] Planner Testemale: limit. That would allow the LUV project to complete and give the applicant time and location

[1:22:59] Planner Testemale: options for moving the use to a more suitable location. So the conditions that were put into

[1:23:06] Planner Testemale: to the draft TUP which was attached are based on existing OCP policies and they also have the

[1:23:15] Planner Testemale: objective to ensure that the use does not have unreasonable impacts on the local area

[1:23:20] Planner Testemale: in a natural environment and in the event that it does it's enforceable. The TUP area and the

[1:23:27] Planner Testemale: number and size of containers and recreational vehicles for storage actually corresponds to

[1:23:32] Planner Testemale: the existing use and it wouldn't accommodate any future increase to that or in the term of the tup

[1:23:40] Planner Testemale: and conditions that have been put in for screening are consistent with the land use bylaw

[1:23:44] Planner Testemale: requirements the applicant has agreed to all conditions except an initial condition which

[1:23:51] Planner Testemale: was to have a locked gate for access they requested that that be removed staff is

[1:23:59] Planner Testemale: recommending in our the recommendations on page one that that actually be reinserted and lastly

[1:24:06] Planner Testemale: as there is active bylaw enforcement file for this property the applicant has provided a request

[1:24:11] Planner Testemale: which is pursuant to the local trust committee standing resolution 2020.10 which is to cease

[1:24:18] Planner Testemale: bylaw enforcement actions for the duration that the application is in process and that was an

[1:24:23] Planner Testemale: alternative that was provided so our recommendations are that they amend so that the local trust

[1:24:30] Planner Testemale: committee amend the draft tup with adding the condition uh that it be controlled by a lockable

[1:24:36] Planner Testemale: gate um and that um that is to be closed and locked by the holder of the permit during hours

[1:24:43] Planner Testemale: where access isn't permitted and that further that the time frame be limited to two years

[1:24:48] Planner Testemale: And then our second recommendation is that staff be directed to undertake notification and then return, which would result in us returning at a future meeting.

[1:25:01] Planner Testemale: So the rationale for that is that the permit has been drafted with the amendments and a two-year time window, and that will be sufficient time for the relocation of the business and ensure that it does not have an unreasonable impact.

[1:25:15] Planner Testemale: and that proceeding will facilitate notification in order to obtain further neighbor input for the proposed use that can inform the LTC's consideration of the application.

[1:25:27] Planner Testemale: And that's my report.

[1:25:31] Planner Testemale: Thank you. Yes.

[1:25:32] Voice 9: Yes. And just to add, the app can be secured today. It was available by phone call. So I'm not sure if the LTC would like me to phone the app now just so they can hear the discussion. Or we can wait until there's questions for the app.

[1:25:49] Voice 9: Pretty

[1:25:50] Trustee McConchie: sure Jeremy's in California right now or something like that.

[1:25:53] Trustee McConchie: Yeah,

[1:25:54] Planner Testemale: he is. But they can watch the live. Well, they should have access to the live stream.

[1:25:58] Planner Testemale: so yeah

[1:25:59] Trustee McConchie: okay well the the main question i have is uh it's been operating for 11 years

[1:26:07] Trustee McConchie: they want they're applying for a temporary use permit

[1:26:12] Trustee McConchie: right like so is it buying them time to find a new location right is this a question for me or

[1:26:20] Trustee McConchie: no

[1:26:21] Voice 10: we're just going to talk about it for a second

[1:26:23] Trustee McConchie: i'll sorry i understand finer testimony it's

[1:26:26] Trustee McConchie: confusing i'm if i have a specific question i'll mention your name um so uh i'm curious to know

[1:26:32] Trustee McConchie: what's the long-term plan for this business and then if if the plan is to you know be here for

[1:26:41] Trustee McConchie: long term why aren't they applying for rezoning why temporary use permit you know and then why

[1:26:48] Trustee McConchie: would we grant them a temporary use permit that's my main question if you know they they may as well

[1:26:54] Trustee McConchie: deal with the issue now rather than at a different time or apply for rezoning

[1:27:00] Voice 6: right

[1:27:01] Trustee McConchie: i mean this

[1:27:03] Trustee McConchie: you've heard the concerns of the neighbors today they first of all it's right beside this

[1:27:08] Trustee McConchie: protected ecological thing the rain coast and the conservancy have helped protect

[1:27:13] Trustee McConchie: you're concerned about roads condition of the road increased traffic uh neighbors don't really

[1:27:19] Trustee McConchie: know what's going on it doesn't feel like the that uh well at least that's what i heard so

[1:27:26] Trustee McConchie: my question to the applicant would be pretty simple or or i guess maybe phil you can answer

[1:27:31] Trustee McConchie: this question why was a tup encouraged you know and what is their long-term plan if they don't

[1:27:37] Trustee McConchie: have a long-term plan then what why are we granting the tup

[1:27:41] Planner Testemale: so um to answer the question

[1:27:46] Planner Testemale: they have the option to apply for a TUP or rezoning.

[1:27:51] Planner Testemale: There's a significant difference in costs for the two.

[1:27:56] Planner Testemale: And as the staff report indicates

[1:27:59] Planner Testemale: that it was seen as probably a reasonable approach

[1:28:05] Planner Testemale: to basically give them some time

[1:28:09] Planner Testemale: to transition their business.

[1:28:11] Planner Testemale: So to try not to be as, you know,

[1:28:13] Planner Testemale: as least punitive as possible also in terms of uh if i was talking to the applicant about a

[1:28:22] Planner Testemale: rezoning i would not i would suggest that they staff would probably not support this application

[1:28:29] Planner Testemale: because of a lot of the factors that we've heard today and that you know you obviously they have

[1:28:35] Planner Testemale: the right to apply for rezoning but um you don't want to lead someone to spend money if it's

[1:28:41] Planner Testemale: probably not you know going to proceed so or not

[1:28:45] Trustee McConchie: so then then therefore the if the business

[1:28:49] Trustee McConchie: business isn't supported in the community and it should be located elsewhere according to

[1:28:55] Trustee McConchie: what i'm hearing then we're basically giving a temporary use permit to buy the applicant time

[1:29:02] Trustee McConchie: to reassess their business but the two-year period will be over our term so this trust

[1:29:08] Trustee McConchie: committee will not ever have an opportunity to discuss this issue depending on what happens in

[1:29:13] Trustee McConchie: municipal elections in october of 2022 so you know and then how long do you need to relocate

[1:29:20] Trustee McConchie: the business what has the applicant done there's a whole bunch of industrial lands sitting on north

[1:29:25] Trustee McConchie: pender island empty and i'm sick of that so we keep expanding industrial land and expanding and

[1:29:32] Trustee McConchie: expanding when this land is just sitting there empty what efforts has the applicant made to go

[1:29:37] Trustee McConchie: and talk to jim allen and talk to the folks that own industrial land and establish something there

[1:29:43] Trustee McConchie: so that's why i have some hesitations it would be great if the applicant was here

[1:29:47] Trustee McConchie: but i

[1:29:49] Trustee McConchie: don't know i'm not sure

[1:29:50] Voice 7: what the long

[1:29:50] Trustee McConchie: -term plan is yeah like

[1:29:53] Trustee McConchie: i guess what i need to know

[1:29:53] Trustee McConchie: is one last thought before i just need to know what's your long-term plan or is this temporary

[1:30:00] Trustee McConchie: use permit just uh let's keep kicking it down and keep running the business because it's cheaper

[1:30:05] Trustee McConchie: you know anyways yeah and

[1:30:07] Voice 10: and related to that this is one so i do think it's probably helpful

[1:30:11] Voice 10: to ask that of the applicants however even having said even if the long-term plan is to relocate the

[1:30:17] Voice 10: business elsewhere i frankly think that the tup should have been on a different piece of land

[1:30:22] Voice 10: it should have been on one of the industrial pieces of land to say this is where we're going

[1:30:26] Voice 10: going to move it can you hold off on bylaw enforcement on our current piece while we relocate

[1:30:31] Voice 10: that would have been like yes i would have been all over that so i don't actually want to approve

[1:30:36] Voice 10: this permit as it is because i don't want to give them two more years to relocate from this site i

[1:30:40] Voice 10: want to tell them that they we will hold on bylaw enforcement as they relocate onto a new site right

[1:30:45] Voice 10: now that would be okay because you're right we do have several pieces of industrial zone land that

[1:30:50] Voice 10: are way better no no neighbors traffic issues like it's just a better situation so and imperfect like

[1:30:56] Voice 10: we've talked about it before perfect for storage and they're not being used that way right now

[1:31:01] Voice 10: so i would say no i'm not for this permit at all okay

[1:31:05] Trustee McConchie: well perhaps we don't need to speak to the

[1:31:09] Trustee McConchie: applicant something

[1:31:10] Voice 12: just got a hold of them the phone dropped the phone oh

[1:31:14] Voice 7: i don't know

[1:31:15] Voice 7: know.

[1:31:18] Trustee McConchie: So did you want to make a motion on

[1:31:20] Voice 6: page

[1:31:22] Trustee McConchie: 51?

[1:31:28] Voice 10: There we go.

[1:31:29] Voice 10: Okay, so which one are we at? Deny number four. I moved that

[1:31:37] Voice 10: the North Pender LTC North Pender Local Trust Committee

[1:31:42] Voice 10: deny temporary use permit application NP-TUP 2021.7 Carwood.

[1:31:48] Voice 18: I second.

[1:31:49] Voice 10: I'll speak to that for a second.

[1:31:51] Voice 10: So there are uses for TUPs

[1:31:55] Voice 10: and there are not uses for TUPs.

[1:31:57] Voice 10: And we have had a lot of conversations,

[1:32:00] Voice 10: Ben and I have not always agreed

[1:32:01] Voice 10: on how we apply TUPs on this Island.

[1:32:04] Voice 10: The, I'm not actually a fan of expanding industrial land.

[1:32:08] Voice 10: I'm not a fan of like ad hoc use of industrial land

[1:32:11] Voice 10: on the Island.

[1:32:11] Voice 10: I think we need to be thinking carefully so we're not you know really inhibiting the rural character

[1:32:17] Voice 10: of the island the preservation efforts in different areas um and at the same time I you know we need

[1:32:23] Voice 10: to be nudging and pushing people into the right areas to do that and I think we need to be a

[1:32:28] Voice 10: little more forceful about doing that and giving two years on a temporary sperm in this situation

[1:32:32] Voice 10: where we know today it should be on a different location is just not okay so um if the applicant

[1:32:37] Voice 10: wants to come back to us with another TEP for an actual industrialist on the site and

[1:32:42] Voice 10: an additional piece saying, can you cease enforcement while we move? I'd be all over

[1:32:47] Voice 10: that. I'm all for that, but not to continue use on this property.

[1:32:53] Trustee McConchie: I support those comments. The other concern I have is that the applicant didn't realize

[1:33:01] Trustee McConchie: they were operating a pretty solid commercial enterprise for 11 years

[1:33:08] Trustee McConchie: and was unaware of zoning regulations that the community agrees to here.

[1:33:16] Trustee McConchie: So certainly I support the idea of doing this, encouraging the applicant

[1:33:21] Trustee McConchie: to consider moving.

[1:33:23] Trustee McConchie: I guess people need to store their stuff in areas.

[1:33:28] Trustee McConchie: I've never quite understood that, but if there is a need, certainly there's industrial

[1:33:35] Trustee McConchie: land there on the island that he could operate his business and rent the land from.

[1:33:41] Trustee McConchie: Certainly three acres there, he could certainly work with the landowners to help his business

[1:33:50] Trustee McConchie: thrive even more.

[1:33:53] Trustee McConchie: Perhaps he could buy more containers and go to various options to figure out ways for

[1:33:59] Trustee McConchie: for his business to thrive.

[1:34:00] Trustee McConchie: But I certainly think your rationale is logical.

[1:34:04] Trustee McConchie: So that's my comments on the motion.

[1:34:08] Voice 12: Add to the debate.

[1:34:09] Voice 12: Is there any further debate?

[1:34:11] Voice 12: Then I'll call the motion.

[1:34:12] Voice 12: All those in favor?

[1:34:14] Voice 12: That's carried.

[1:34:17] Voice 12: So thank you very much.

[1:34:19] Voice 12: And I heard some suggestions

[1:34:21] Voice 12: that were made today for the applicant.

[1:34:23] Voice 12: So Leonard Testimol, did you have something?

[1:34:29] Voice 12: no

[1:34:29] Planner Testemale: just to clarify so just just by and just so we're all on the same page that

[1:34:34] Planner Testemale: so enforcement will now proceed um as there's been no yeah

[1:34:40] Voice 10: and enforcement will come back to us and

[1:34:42] Voice 10: the enforcement options for the applicant are to make another tup and request a delay or

[1:34:49] Voice 10: ceasing of his is what and we should inform him that he can ask us to cease bylaw enforcement and

[1:34:55] Voice 10: I am more than happy to see Spile Enforcement on his place for a limited time while he actually

[1:35:00] Voice 10: makes an application on another piece of land. But that would be my sort of advice to him. And

[1:35:05] Voice 10: he's, of course, welcome to phone.

[1:35:08] Planner Testemale: Yep. Okay. I just wanted to clarify. Thanks.

[1:35:12] Voice 12: All right. So the next application, 12.3, is a development permit 2021.7,

[1:35:17] Voice 12: Brody. And there's a staff report on page 69.

[1:35:23] Planner Testemale: Thanks, Chair Patrick. So this is for 433

[1:35:26] Planner Testemale: three arbutus spur on sydney island and it's an application to permit development and land

[1:35:32] Planner Testemale: alteration with this within the sydney island geotechnical development permit area on the

[1:35:37] Planner Testemale: property and more specifically it's to effectively move the boundary of the geotechnical hazard area

[1:35:44] Planner Testemale: five meters seaward or westward based on a submitted geotechnical assessment of the site

[1:35:50] Planner Testemale: and this will permit the construction of a dwelling partially within the dpa

[1:35:54] Planner Testemale: The application is the result of a revised preliminary building permit review.

[1:36:01] Planner Testemale: Subsequent to the building permit being issued, the proposed siting was moved and that required the current application.

[1:36:09] Planner Testemale: So the site was selected as it's been mostly cleared and it will involve minimal tree removal.

[1:36:16] Planner Testemale: It will provide better views and it will avoid damaging the root system of an old growth fir.

[1:36:23] Planner Testemale: and that was under the advisement of an arborist so a letter from the arborist which actually

[1:36:28] Planner Testemale: doesn't reference that um but and it's quite short was received after the agenda was published and

[1:36:35] Planner Testemale: that's been forwarded to the ltc so the hazard assessment was submitted by risic geotechnical

[1:36:42] Planner Testemale: and that analyzes the geotechnical report that's the basis for the dpa uh the geological conditions

[1:36:49] Planner Testemale: of the subject property and the proposed development and it concluded with its professional

[1:36:55] Planner Testemale: opinion under seal that they consider that the proposed patio which I'll make a comment on and

[1:37:02] Planner Testemale: house can be constructed up to five meters west of the current covenant line without being at risk

[1:37:09] Planner Testemale: of seismic or erosion-based geohazards. The comment being the patio is actually no longer

[1:37:14] Planner Testemale: part of the proposal. Page four of that report includes a checklist that assesses and certifies

[1:37:22] Planner Testemale: compliance with each of the applicable DP guidelines and makes recommendations for tree

[1:37:29] Planner Testemale: removal specifically the requirement for oversight of a certified arborist and for stump retention

[1:37:37] Planner Testemale: as well as for minimizing disruption of existing vegetation and for storm drainage management.

[1:37:44] Planner Testemale: so all those recommendations have been incorporated into the proposed ep and based on that report

[1:37:51] Planner Testemale: staff is of the opinion that the application has met all the guidelines of the dpa so

[1:37:57] Planner Testemale: one note is that the application was referred to the islands trust conservancy and that's under

[1:38:02] Planner Testemale: policy 3.3.1 which is an agreement between local trust committee sorry local the local planning

[1:38:11] Planner Testemale: services and the Islands Trust Conservancy and that that was done as

[1:38:17] Planner Testemale: there's a covenant on the adjacent land which is to the northwest the finger

[1:38:22] Planner Testemale: that is along the shoreline which is a conservation covered area and in

[1:38:27] Planner Testemale: referring to staff the response was that they requested that the covenant area be

[1:38:33] Planner Testemale: identified on the ground and that additional construction management

[1:38:36] Planner Testemale: conditions be included so both of those items have been added as conditions in the DP

[1:38:43] Planner Testemale: staff recommendation is that that the LTC approve issuance of the DP and the rationale being that

[1:38:52] Planner Testemale: the application is based on a professional geotechnical assessment and an addendum which

[1:38:58] Planner Testemale: meets all of the relevant objectives and guidelines of the DPA and that all recommendations of that

[1:39:05] Planner Testemale: that assessment have been incorporated into the proposed DPA and just one two comments I'm going

[1:39:14] Planner Testemale: to try and preempt some comments by trustee McConnachie so first is that bill 26 now does

[1:39:23] Planner Testemale: allow development permits to be delegated to staff which we've heard a lot about with these

[1:39:31] Planner Testemale: kind of applications and this would be the ideal type of application for that to happen of course

[1:39:36] Planner Testemale: that's going to require bylaw amendments and secondly we are as spoken of at the last meeting

[1:39:43] Planner Testemale: we are having a meeting with the SALUS strata committee about coordinating referrals for these

[1:39:55] Planner Testemale: kind of applications to the sydney island strata committee so that's my report

[1:40:01] Voice 12: thank you for

[1:40:04] Voice 12: pre-empting those questions okay trustees over here oh wait the applicant is not here is that

[1:40:09] Voice 12: correct we can phone them if necessary okay okay so

[1:40:13] Trustee McConchie: my first question is okay

[1:40:14] Trustee McConchie: this arborist what is an arborist and what i mean by that is like there are some arborists that

[1:40:23] Trustee McConchie: think clear cuts are beautiful or willing to investigate that and there are some arborists

[1:40:27] Trustee McConchie: that barely cut down a tree on a property because they weep at the sight of a dying arbutus tree

[1:40:33] Trustee McConchie: well is there a actual government approved arborist like this a certified arborist has

[1:40:39] Trustee McConchie: particular rigorous training that they go to and because it strikes me as the arborist opinion is

[1:40:44] Trustee McConchie: quite relevant in this particular application if i'm not mistaken uh so maybe

[1:40:50] Trustee McConchie: phil it's

[1:40:51] Planner Testemale: a bit of

[1:40:51] Planner Testemale: of a technicality here like so my understanding is that it's it's a professional association i

[1:40:59] Planner Testemale: don't um i don't i don't think you could put it in the same camp as um like for instance a

[1:41:07] Planner Testemale: professional engineer but i am uncertain about that to be perfectly honest i don't know if kim

[1:41:11] Planner Testemale: has any certainty around that because we have had this question before um i believe because people

[1:41:17] Planner Testemale: people want to know well who is an arborist and what kind of accreditation do you need to be an

[1:41:22] Planner Testemale: arborist but um the second part of that in answering that is that um so this basically

[1:41:31] Planner Testemale: what you're approving or issuing if you choose to is um the geotechnical aspect of this and what

[1:41:40] Planner Testemale: has been said and as part of that is is that any tree removal has to be done by a certified arborist

[1:41:47] Planner Testemale: so um it it so what i'm saying is is that uh what was maybe said in that report by the arborist was

[1:41:56] Planner Testemale: sort of kind of outside of this i think so if you follow uh yeah

[1:42:02] Trustee McConchie: yeah because the article so

[1:42:04] Trustee McConchie: So it says in the staff report that there's an old row tree and that the justification for moving the house to a certain area is to avoid impacting the root system of this 300-year-old tree.

[1:42:18] Trustee McConchie: Right.

[1:42:18] Trustee McConchie: But I'm not seeing an arborist sign off on that.

[1:42:22] Trustee McConchie: You get what I'm saying?

[1:42:23] Planner Testemale: Yeah, sorry.

[1:42:24] Planner Testemale: And I think this is a question for the applicant because what happened was they had the arborist come and do an assessment of the property in the spring.

[1:42:34] Planner Testemale: and um when uh in speaking to her and doing my staff report i suggested to her that would be

[1:42:41] Planner Testemale: really helpful if we had an arborist report um she had a large amount of difficulty getting that

[1:42:47] Planner Testemale: from the arborist and i think what ended up was like the kind of the two lines that we got back

[1:42:52] Planner Testemale: um which as you say as rightfully so it doesn't specifically talk speak to the particular

[1:42:59] Planner Testemale: particular siting that's been chosen, nor does it reference a tree. So a particular tree. Yeah.

[1:43:06] Planner Testemale: So it may

[1:43:07] Planner Testemale: be not very helpful, but yeah, it's the

[1:43:09] Trustee McConchie: best you could

[1:43:09] Planner Testemale: do, but that was my understanding.

[1:43:11] Planner Testemale: So, yeah.

[1:43:12] Trustee McConchie: I'm just trying to figure out the justification for building a house on this

[1:43:17] Trustee McConchie: protected geotechnical area. The purpose of the geotechnical area is to prevent overall erosion

[1:43:23] Trustee McConchie: and the geotechs come back and said, it's not that bad. It's not going to be a big deal.

[1:43:26] Trustee McConchie: So we're considering that issue. However, but what I'm not clear on is this added on forest tree issue, the 300-year-old tree that they're protecting. So we're not even able to go on the site right now. We haven't been there. I see a picture in the staff report of this heavily treed area, but then I'm hearing that it's cleared now.

[1:43:49] Trustee McConchie: now. So I just don't have enough information right now to be able to really fully assess

[1:43:55] Trustee McConchie: this. It's just a bit, it's not clear to me, the justification for approving this.

[1:44:02] Planner Testemale: So I just need to be clear that the justification for approving it would be because they have

[1:44:09] Planner Testemale: met all of the guidelines of the

[1:44:12] Voice 6: geotechnical

[1:44:13] Planner Testemale: report. So to put it crassly, you would be

[1:44:19] Planner Testemale: be on shaky ground to say no we're not going to issue this because we don't have an arborist

[1:44:24] Planner Testemale: report because that's not part of the guidelines so

[1:44:28] Trustee McConchie: what's the point of the arborist report then

[1:44:29] Trustee McConchie: the

[1:44:31] Planner Testemale: arborist it's information to be honest it's not it's background information it doesn't really

[1:44:37] Planner Testemale: have any relevance to this application per se because it all it's doing is speaking to why

[1:44:44] Planner Testemale: why they selected the site potentially and it's again it's probably the applicant who's going to

[1:44:50] Planner Testemale: be able to answer this but the bottom line is if you want to go to the bottom line is that the

[1:44:56] Planner Testemale: the provision of the geotechnical assessment meets all of the guidelines and so that's what

[1:45:04] Planner Testemale: you're being asked to do and part of that is is that any further tree removal would be done with

[1:45:11] Planner Testemale: an arborist so i don't i hope that helps yeah

[1:45:18] Voice 10: i'm going to jump in for a second so two questions on

[1:45:21] Voice 10: this one um let's just talk geotechnical for a second so there are geotechnical zones that we

[1:45:30] Voice 10: have identified in broad strokes around the islands because we don't want houses to fall

[1:45:35] Voice 10: into the sea and we don't want to disrupt um by destabilizing shorelines we don't want to disrupt

[1:45:40] Voice 10: archaeological sites or other culturally relevant sites, okay? That's my

[1:45:44] Voice 10: understanding of why we care about geotechnical zones. Human loss of life,

[1:45:49] Voice 10: cultural resources and assets protecting the sea and the non-human components. So

[1:45:55] Voice 10: are we fully dependent, and I need a really clear kind of yes or no, are we

[1:46:02] Voice 10: fully dependent on making our decisions based on this geotechnical report or can

[1:46:08] Voice 10: Can we require further information?

[1:46:11] Planner Testemale: So to answer the question, you can require more information,

[1:46:16] Planner Testemale: but it should be relevant to the guidelines.

[1:46:18] Planner Testemale: Yep, totally with you.

[1:46:20] Planner Testemale: Yep.

[1:46:20] Planner Testemale: And so basically we can't really provide you with more information

[1:46:26] Planner Testemale: vis-a-vis the guidelines because it's a professional reliance model

[1:46:31] Planner Testemale: and the professional has said this is good to go.

[1:46:36] Planner Testemale: so um so i don't know what you would be asking for to be honest

[1:46:40] Voice 10: yeah no i can tell you don't

[1:46:41] Voice 10: you don't have to guess i'll tell you so i would be asking for a clear understanding of how the

[1:46:48] Voice 10: professional information provided is adjusting for shifting precipitation instability issues

[1:46:56] Voice 10: given climate change shifts i don't see that i see a like a this moment snapshot and i don't

[1:47:02] Voice 10: see a projection and i'm worried about that

[1:47:04] Planner Testemale: so i can answer that because the report does it's

[1:47:08] Planner Testemale: based on modeling and it does accommodate for sea level change um and and effects of climate change

[1:47:15] Planner Testemale: and it does so that the geotechnical assessment incorporates that and it's in the it's in the

[1:47:22] Planner Testemale: verbiage of the of the report itself it's not you know it's not tables or charted but it is

[1:47:27] Planner Testemale: it's referenced so that's the work of the professional so

[1:47:31] Voice 10: i don't believe it basically

[1:47:36] Voice 10: i looked at the report i read through it i see the sea level rise i don't see the shifts in

[1:47:41] Voice 10: precipitation and storm damage that we're getting i just don't see it the way that i would like to

[1:47:46] Voice 10: so i personally don't want to don't want to prove this without talking and having the geotechnical

[1:47:54] Voice 10: person like talk to us and clarify that data because i feel like i'm putting at risk future

[1:48:00] Voice 10: homeowners and other environmental issues by building into a geotechnical area that

[1:48:05] Voice 10: potentially is going to be even more heavily influenced like i'm seeing globally we're

[1:48:10] Voice 10: seeing those types of geotechnical instabilities increase not decrease so like that concerns me

[1:48:16] Voice 10: i

[1:48:17] Planner Testemale: think that's a really good i just can i make one point on that um sorry and it's just a

[1:48:22] Planner Testemale: technicality but um the and and i'm not distracting detracting from your points at all but um you are

[1:48:31] Planner Testemale: not taking the risk it's the professional who's taking the risk here so it's

[1:48:35] Voice 10: not about risk phil

[1:48:37] Voice 10: it's about but you did

[1:48:38] Planner Testemale: say that it was about i'm not going to put somebody at risk sorry yes yes

[1:48:42] Voice 10: in that sense risk i see what you're saying but to

[1:48:45] Voice 10: me it's responsibility for not just today and

[1:48:48] Voice 10: the people that it's the responsibility to the larger community and name yeah

[1:48:51] Planner Testemale: i'm just talking

[1:48:53] Planner Testemale: about the legal exposure of the local trust sorry yeah

[1:48:56] Planner Testemale: so

[1:48:57] Trustee McConchie: um it's interesting because i've had

[1:49:00] Trustee McConchie: conversations with other trustees about this uh that we're governing by professional reports

[1:49:06] Trustee McConchie: right and the professional reports um are not the government they're they're making professional

[1:49:14] Trustee McConchie: professional suggestions and i see time and time again lawyers and engineers running things right

[1:49:19] Trustee McConchie: now in particular i mean you can think of the garden plot was basically decided by lawyers

[1:49:25] Trustee McConchie: and by engineers so why are this is almost like it's almost that's why phil i asked that question

[1:49:32] Trustee McConchie: i appreciate you addressing it but to the trust committee it's like what is the point of the trust

[1:49:37] Trustee McConchie: here right what is the point of us and i really want to hammer that home because i i i agree with

[1:49:44] Trustee McConchie: what you're saying trustee uh there's there's some major concerns over what's going to happen

[1:49:50] Trustee McConchie: in the future with erosion you know and a professional is saying right now well yeah

[1:49:55] Trustee McConchie: according to the current regulations it means

[1:49:58] Voice 6: xyz the current

[1:50:00] Trustee McConchie: models yeah our

[1:50:01] Trustee McConchie: job is uh you know

[1:50:03] Trustee McConchie: the public officials is to factor all these things in professional reports and then go well just a

[1:50:08] Trustee McConchie: second maybe here on this surface so i don't know sure patrick i wanted to hear what you thought

[1:50:13] Trustee McConchie: about this well

[1:50:14] Voice 12: this is our our job is we set the guidelines the rules through you know the

[1:50:19] Voice 12: guidelines are it's an ocp thing for a development permit area and it is one of my personal

[1:50:25] Voice 12: frustrations is we set development permit areas and maps and then we walk away from them uh you

[1:50:32] Voice 12: know generally and they sit on the books for a long time but maps and land is is alive it's

[1:50:38] Voice 12: changing we don't build in those checks to make sure that those guidelines are being brought up

[1:50:44] Voice 12: to date as we learn more information as maps change as conditions change our job would be

[1:50:51] Voice 12: and should be to look at those things from a regular basis and say are the guidelines that

[1:50:56] Voice 12: we have on the rules today adequate for what we see coming down the road is the map area adequate

[1:51:03] Voice 12: so we are living with decisions made in the past that shape this development permit area

[1:51:10] Voice 12: and you know unfortunately you've got a condition where you know an applicant has met those

[1:51:14] Voice 12: conditions it appears to have met those conditions and that's what we're being asked of but

[1:51:19] Voice 12: politically you could say are those conditions right do i want to fix that and change that and

[1:51:22] Voice 12: stop that or do something different that's coming

[1:51:25] Voice 10: because like for instance in the report itself

[1:51:29] Voice 10: it says that they need to do surface water management to avoid further erosion okay like

[1:51:38] Voice 10: so i get it this is the engineering and technical solution is let's just move the water away from

[1:51:44] Voice 10: the slope and we won't erode it the reality is we actually are there's no building there yet

[1:51:49] Voice 10: we have a different solution that we could offer and the alternative solution would be

[1:51:54] Voice 10: don't put the house on that piece of land move it back like another 10 feet or 15 feet right and

[1:51:59] Voice 10: you're still of course needing to put drains and things around houses but at least you're not

[1:52:03] Voice 10: sitting on something that potentially like can slough away in in important ways so i know phil

[1:52:10] Voice 10: that you are like it's it's a frustrating moment because it's this moment where we disagree with

[1:52:15] Voice 10: the decision and yet we don't necessarily and not for you for me it's a frustrating moment for me

[1:52:20] Voice 10: where we we it's difficult for us to say that this particular permit can't be approved because

[1:52:28] Voice 10: what criteria are we asking for so chair um i would actually like to know can we defer this

[1:52:34] Voice 10: to our next meeting ask for

[1:52:36] Voice 10: the geo table to the next meeting and ask for the um consultant to be

[1:52:40] Voice 10: present to explain to us and educate us why this is appropriate and

[1:52:43] Trustee McConchie: if i can ask for specific

[1:52:44] Trustee McConchie: specific topographic photos that reflect the recent clearing because if they cut down several

[1:52:50] Trustee McConchie: trees because on this on the staff report it's full of trees right the topographic map the photo

[1:52:57] Voice 12: the

[1:52:58] Trustee McConchie: photos now they what trees have they cut because that's that's kind of important

[1:53:02] Voice 6: right

[1:53:03] Trustee McConchie: to me does that affect erosion i'm no scientist but so look so

[1:53:09] Trustee McConchie: i'd be happy to table the motion

[1:53:11] Trustee McConchie: But also, there's an opportunity to request further information.

[1:53:14] Voice 10: And I

[1:53:15] Voice 10: mean, we could

[1:53:16] Trustee McConchie: go for a site visit in the spring.

[1:53:19] Voice 10: Yeah, I'm game to.

[1:53:20] Voice 10: So

[1:53:20] Trustee McConchie: I would like to, I'd like to make a motion that the LTC request further information.

[1:53:25] Trustee McConchie: Sorry, that the local trust committee request that the applicant and local trust committee participate in a on-site visit.

[1:53:40] Trustee McConchie: with the

[1:53:42] Trustee McConchie: geotech engineer sometime to be scheduled in spring and

[1:53:49] Planner Testemale: in the spring yeah

[1:53:52] Planner Testemale: okay um okay and do you

[1:53:57] Planner Testemale: sorry i should clarify so do you still um you you want the in so yeah

[1:54:02] Planner Testemale: sorry i'm not going

[1:54:03] Trustee McConchie: to interrupt so just sorry to interrupt i know it's hard you're on the computer

[1:54:06] Trustee McConchie: and you're answering lots of questions so sorry to interrupt you it'd be great to go to sydney

[1:54:10] Trustee McConchie: island and also explain that we have a number really i think it's a goodwill thing and then

[1:54:14] Trustee McConchie: we can also go do a site visit you know and and also talk to the strata council there about our

[1:54:18] Trustee McConchie: intent our intent of the trust committee to refer all these applications to the strata council so

[1:54:23] Trustee McConchie: they see who we are and we connect with them now that's probably a drag for the applicants who want

[1:54:28] Trustee McConchie: to proceed with building their house but we're the trust committee is saying we need more information

[1:54:33] Trustee McConchie: and we have concerns over the the technical report right now so we're requesting further

[1:54:37] Trustee McConchie: further information. I hope, does that make logical sense? Do you plan a testimonial, Phil?

[1:54:41] Planner Testemale: It does. So I just kind of need to know the specific information. So the information was,

[1:54:47] Planner Testemale: that was requested, I'm just trying to paraphrase here, is that you want to do a site visit and

[1:54:54] Planner Testemale: gain information that way. And you also want to hear from the professional engineer.

[1:54:59] Planner Testemale: Correct. Yeah. And

[1:55:01] Voice 10: I personally, Phil, need a lot more clarity on their assumptions behind

[1:55:06] Voice 10: their models because models generally have been overly bad at predicting changes that we're seeing

[1:55:15] Voice 10: in the environment around us and so i can give you a model that says it's perfectly fine to do that

[1:55:20] Voice 10: and i can probably give you one that says it's perfectly awful to do this so um i'd like to see

[1:55:25] Voice 10: the assumptions in their model sure

[1:55:27] Planner Testemale: i can yeah thanks okay i was

[1:55:30] Voice 12: gonna look to shannon for

[1:55:32] Voice 12: Reject the

[1:55:32] Voice 9: committee, and the local trust may request that

[1:55:43] Voice 9: the applicant and local trust may participate in an onsite

[1:55:46] Voice 9: visit with

[1:55:47] Voice 12: the geotechnical engineer to be scheduled.

[1:55:50] Voice 12: I don't know if the onsite visit needs the geotechnical

[1:55:53] Voice 12: engineer. I think it's it's we're asking for an onsite

[1:55:57] Voice 12: visit. And

[1:56:01] Voice 12: And so just

[1:56:01] Voice 10: do on-site visit without the geotechnical

[1:56:03] Trustee McConchie: engineer, we'll work the rest out.

[1:56:05] Trustee McConchie: And a, is it public conversation or private? And a meeting with the geotechnical engineer.

[1:56:19] Voice 11: We also want to talk to them, but it can be at a separate time.

[1:56:21] Voice 5: We

[1:56:22] Voice 6: just assume that with them or whoever it is.

[1:56:24] Voice 6: Good job.

[1:56:25] Voice 12: Thank you.

[1:56:27] Voice 6: All right,

[1:56:27] Voice 12: was that motion seconded?

[1:56:44] Voice 12: I presume that

[1:56:48] Planner Testemale: meeting could be the geotechnical engineer participating in a future trust committee

[1:56:52] Planner Testemale: meeting.

[1:56:53] Planner Testemale: Is that correct?

[1:56:53] Voice 12: We didn't link the two.

[1:56:55] Voice 12: Okay.

[1:56:55] Planner Testemale: Good.

[1:56:56] Planner Testemale: Okay.

[1:56:56] Planner Testemale: Okay.

[1:56:56] Voice 12: All right. So any discussion? I'll call the vote. All those in favor? That's carried.

[1:57:02] Voice 12: Thank you. All

[1:57:04] Trustee McConchie: right. Because I see our trustee from South Pender has arrived.

[1:57:08] Trustee McConchie: Although he

[1:57:09] Voice 12: looks like he's

[1:57:09] Trustee McConchie: in the witness protection.

[1:57:11] Voice 12: Oh, is that him? Okay. We have a referral from Salt Spring Island on page 97. This is a standard

[1:57:21] Voice 12: referral i'd

[1:57:23] Trustee McConchie: like to make a motion that the uh interests are unaffected uh by bylaw north

[1:57:30] Trustee McConchie: pender island local trust committee's interests are unaffected by bylaw second

[1:57:35] Voice 12: always fills in

[1:57:36] Voice 12: those little details make it specific thank you and it's been seconded by trustee morgan

[1:57:41] Voice 12: any discussion i'll call the vote all those in favor carried okay uh how are we doing here did

[1:57:48] Voice 12: we want to take a break we're

[1:57:49] Voice 18: only 25 minutes behind schedule so

[1:57:52] Voice 12: you want a break for a couple

[1:57:54] Voice 12: minutes and then we'll come back in okay so a five minute break yeah is

[1:57:58] Voice 12: that gonna work for everybody

[1:57:59] Voice 12: i'm sorry say bye to phil oh

[1:58:01] Trustee McConchie: say bye to phil

[1:58:02] Voice 12: yeah i'm sorry thank you phil i'm sorry phil um just

[1:58:05] Trustee McConchie: just briefly in the agenda is there are we at just so folks know we are at the uh landings bylaw

[1:58:11] Trustee McConchie: review section trustee um right to sit with the committee or is he you

[1:58:17] Voice 12: can sit up here you're

[1:58:19] Trustee McConchie: going to sit at the big table all

[1:58:19] Voice 12: right so phil thank you very much phil for your uh coming in

[1:58:22] Voice 12: on saturday we very much appreciate it thank you

[1:58:25] Planner Testemale: thanks bye now

[1:58:55] Voice 6: There's

[1:58:55] Voice 11: something saying self-office.

[1:59:00] Voice 6: Okay, great.

[1:59:38] Voice 6: What's your last name?

[2:00:03] Voice 6: um

[2:00:33] Voice 6: that

[2:00:34] Voice 14: was my

[2:00:37] Voice 14: uh

[2:06:05] Voice 12: uh so we're back to sorry

[2:06:10] Voice 12: are you

[2:06:11] Voice 10: guys all back there no you can't be

[2:06:13] Voice 6: too close to the government

[2:06:20] Voice 12: okay we're at 14.1 in the agenda package and this is the land use by

[2:06:25] Voice 12: you may have a vibe that uh outpender trustee uh steve wright is uh joining us

[2:06:32] Voice 12: for some of the conversation today and um i'm gonna turn over to uh planner stockville he'll

[2:06:40] Voice 12: start us off on the report starting on page 104 of the agenda package thank

[2:06:45] Voice 9: you chair patrick um

[2:06:48] Voice 9: at the last meeting october 22nd there were a number of resolutions with regards to this

[2:06:53] Voice 9: land use bylaw project uh they were related to um the c2 zoning on mckinnon road and with regards

[2:07:02] Voice 9: to driftwood property that zoned c2 to rezone that to uh rental residential and those topics

[2:07:09] Voice 9: will be discussed in just a bit uh there was also a resolution to schedule a community information

[2:07:15] Voice 9: meeting for february 5th which i'll also discuss at the end of the staff report and um i know the

[2:07:24] Voice 9: resolution to include the south pender trustees in this discussion for floor area so i'll just

[2:07:31] Voice 9: go over some of the comments with regards to maximum floor area and then perhaps i'll pause

[2:07:36] Voice 9: If the LTC agrees, then we can discuss that as Trustee Seelight is here.

[2:07:41] Voice 9: So to give an update on the South Pender project, the South Pender LTC is also going through some minor amendments to the Land Use By-law,

[2:07:53] Voice 9: and that includes reviewing their current maximum floor area regulations.

[2:07:58] Voice 9: Currently, the South Pender Land Use By-law does regulate maximum floor area for the Rural

[2:08:05] Voice 9: Residential 1, Rural Residential 2, and Rural Residential 3 zones.

[2:08:10] Voice 9: So at the last South Pender LTC meeting, the LTC gave direction to staff to actually include

[2:08:17] Voice 9: two different maximum floor area regulations.

[2:08:21] Voice 9: The first would be to retain the current regulations for dwelling units that are currently constructed

[2:08:27] Voice 9: prior to the outcome of the potential LEP amendment by-law and then a second

[2:08:33] Voice 9: set of restrictive maximum floor area regulations for new construction. So

[2:08:38] Voice 9: they'd be two different maximum floor area regulations. One benefit of this

[2:08:44] Voice 9: approach is it does not create legal non-performing situations for existing

[2:08:49] Voice 9: legal dwelling units. At this time the south inner land use by-law is in draft

[2:08:55] Voice 9: form and it hasn't been given first reading. So South Pender's approach to address legal

[2:09:03] Voice 9: non-conforming status would not be applicable for North Pender as North Pender LUB does

[2:09:10] Voice 9: not currently regulate maximum floor area. Instead, the draft LUB amendment for North

[2:09:17] Voice 9: Pender would include a provision that would allow existing wet dwelling units to be altered

[2:09:22] Voice 9: or rebuilt to the exact same floor area that they currently have.

[2:09:28] Voice 9: So I will pause

[2:09:30] Voice 9: there on the topic of maximum floor area

[2:09:32] Voice 9: if the LTC has any questions or we can have a discussion with regards

[2:09:36] Voice 9: to the South Pender by-law.

[2:09:40] Voice 12: All right, Trustees.

[2:09:44] Voice 12: Cameron's joining us too.

[2:09:46] Trustee McConchie: There he is.

[2:09:47] Voice 12: You're going to be

[2:09:47] Voice 12: late there, Cam.

[2:09:49] Trustee McConchie: Trustee

[2:09:49] Voice 12: Thorne, please pull

[2:09:50] Trustee McConchie: up a chair.

[2:09:53] Trustee McConchie: We've invited the South Pender Trustees.

[2:09:57] Trustee McConchie: We discussed at the last meeting, I believe, Chair Patrick, to invite Southpender, because

[2:10:02] Trustee McConchie: what happens on Southpender is very directly impacted by what happens on Northpender.

[2:10:06] Trustee McConchie: I believe in this particular issue of shared interests.

[2:10:09] Trustee McConchie: I'm actually curious to know, because, Chair Patrick, you bring up a really good point.

[2:10:13] Trustee McConchie: What are we trying to do here?

[2:10:16] Trustee McConchie: What is the intent of addressing this bylaw?

[2:10:19] Trustee McConchie: I wanted Southpender trustees to come as they're investigating this topic to discuss with folks

[2:10:25] Trustee McConchie: here wider audience as well uh what the justification and rationale for this landing

[2:10:29] Trustee McConchie: spiral review with regards to maximum uh florida area and maximum close sizes welcome

[2:10:36] Voice 20: okay but

[2:10:40] Voice 20: thank you thanks for thanks for uh extending the offer to steve and i to come to north fender uh

[2:10:46] Voice 20: don't get out there very often um uh well i'm sure steve's got his own thoughts i mean for us

[2:10:55] Voice 20: much of what we um the guidepost for for uh the decisions that we are making on self vendors is

[2:11:05] Voice 20: looking at what our official community plan has to say and i think most people know what the official

[2:11:09] Voice 20: community plan is it's a vision document it's a it's it's it's policy driven as opposed to

[2:11:15] Voice 20: regulatory nature and and the objective is when you look at your community plan you look at the

[2:11:20] Voice 20: visions that the community had set out for for our community on south pender we one of the one

[2:11:26] Voice 20: of the driving uh a couple of the driving principles were preservation of the rural character

[2:11:31] Voice 20: uh uh making sure that there was it was a visually pleasing setting that there was

[2:11:35] Voice 20: uh privacy between neighbors uh and of course protection of the of the of the environment and

[2:11:41] Voice 20: um we we um a number of years ago uh prior to steve's and my term um the previous trustees

[2:11:52] Voice 20: had taken a first important step in my view anyhow of looking at um the bylaw on on as

[2:12:01] Voice 20: it related to house size because the only guidepost or the only parameters on what on

[2:12:08] Voice 20: on the size of the house was the setbacks

[2:12:11] Voice 20: and site coverage and ridge height.

[2:12:16] Voice 20: But when you're talking rural properties,

[2:12:20] Voice 20: I mean, I figured on a one-acre property,

[2:12:22] Voice 20: you could build something like a 22,000 square foot house,

[2:12:25] Voice 20: which of course is, I don't think anybody,

[2:12:27] Voice 20: I'm not suggesting that there was a run on people

[2:12:29] Voice 20: trying to do that, but it could show you the extent

[2:12:32] Voice 20: to which there could be homes within a certain neighborhood

[2:12:35] Voice 20: that potentially can be way, way out of scale

[2:12:37] Voice 20: with the character of the neighborhood.

[2:12:40] Voice 20: And, well, we certainly respect private property rights.

[2:12:44] Voice 20: There was a desire to also make sure

[2:12:46] Voice 20: that when you live in a community,

[2:12:48] Voice 20: your rights and the rights of your neighbors

[2:12:50] Voice 20: are things that sometimes is generally a balancing act

[2:12:54] Voice 20: to making sure that everybody's, you know,

[2:12:57] Voice 20: that one person's right

[2:12:58] Voice 20: don't come at the expense of those around us or around them.

[2:13:01] Voice 20: So we, in the case of South Pender,

[2:13:05] Voice 20: we looked at what might be some uh so sorry going back so that the trustees in 2016 had some house

[2:13:12] Voice 20: sizes that that were um an important step forward that looked at house size based on the lot

[2:13:18] Voice 20: the lot size again less than one acre there was a certain house size again one to two two to four

[2:13:25] Voice 20: there was a scale up um we've the discussions that we're having with the community right now

[2:13:31] Voice 20: is just whether some of those should be refined a little bit in consideration of

[2:13:35] Voice 20: the actual what's actually being built to date on South Pender and in many cases

[2:13:39] Voice 20: some of the house sizes that were permissible were quite quite a bit

[2:13:45] Voice 20: larger than what's actually being built. So you know we've been looking at things

[2:13:52] Voice 20: not to to try and penalize people but really try and uphold the

[2:13:59] Voice 20: values of our community and again I think the house size comes hand in glove with setbacks

[2:14:06] Voice 20: because if you can find ways to increase or provide a little bit more horizontal separation

[2:14:12] Voice 20: between neighbors it provides more opportunity for screening and natural foliage and I think

[2:14:22] Voice 20: that just goes a long ways to the preservation of the rural character. The final thing I'll say on

[2:14:26] Voice 20: that is that one of the things that steve and i found that became uh an obstacle to having a

[2:14:34] Voice 20: conversation about this was that a lot of people were concerned or a number of people were concerned

[2:14:40] Voice 20: anyhow about the implications of of a change to the house size and what it meant for for uh

[2:14:48] Voice 20: the raising

[2:14:49] Planner Testemale: issue of legal

[2:14:50] Voice 20: non-conforming so if somebody had a house that was in a certain size

[2:14:53] Voice 20: the bylaw changed and the house size was smaller they were great you know if something happens to

[2:14:59] Voice 20: my house it was to burn down i'm not going to be able to get adequate insurance and and we

[2:15:06] Voice 20: legal non-conforming is a is it's all across canada i mean lots and lots of cities across

[2:15:12] Voice 20: canada make changes and it creates situations where existing properties still can operate in

[2:15:19] Voice 20: their in function as they as they always have it's just the means that that they couldn't um if

[2:15:25] Voice 20: somebody was to knew it was to come in and make an application to do something different they'd have

[2:15:30] Voice 20: to follow the new bylaws nonetheless it became a real hiccup on on actually having a progressive

[2:15:35] Voice 20: discussion about about these topics and so what steve and i and laura should say uh because she's

[2:15:41] Voice 20: our chair as well um we're we've that's the conversation to the point where we're looking

[2:15:47] Voice 20: keen at saying okay we were a small enough community we could we could take the extra

[2:15:54] Voice 20: step of saying that the that any new changes to the bylaw would only apply to to the construction

[2:16:02] Voice 20: of new prop new homes built after the adoption of the new bylaw and there would be a separate

[2:16:07] Voice 20: standalone bylaw that would that would remain in places built prior to this one so that so you

[2:16:13] Voice 20: didn't so so that there wasn't a legal mind conforming for existing homes and i think that

[2:16:18] Voice 20: made a lot of people much more comfortable in south pender and it seems like we're having

[2:16:22] Voice 20: i think took a lot of a lot of the uh concerns out of the room at least in the last couple

[2:16:29] Voice 20: meetings that we attended so sorry for talking so long but that that's that's sort of the high

[2:16:34] Voice 20: level on on

[2:16:35] Trustee McConchie: where we're at so my question though was what was the intent what is your intent

[2:16:41] Trustee McConchie: intent like what a problem are you trying to address through this bylaw so i heard a couple

[2:16:46] Trustee McConchie: number of like narrative narratives there trustee thorn about you know what's going on some concerns

[2:16:52] Trustee McConchie: in the community but i'm just wondering what are we trying to do here you know and i'm that that's

[2:16:56] Trustee McConchie: kind of specific and if we start there like for example north pender does not regulate maximum

[2:17:03] Trustee McConchie: flurry area there is no baseline regulation which is my intent right to establish a regulation because

[2:17:10] Trustee McConchie: because it's right now, it's non-stat.

[2:17:12] Trustee McConchie: So yeah, I was just curious to know your guys' rationale,

[2:17:14] Trustee McConchie: but I appreciate your thoughts, Justin.

[2:17:15] Trustee McConchie: Well,

[2:17:16] Voice 16: that's a correct question to ask, what's it for?

[2:17:19] Voice 16: What is the rationale?

[2:17:20] Voice 16: What's the justification for it?

[2:17:22] Voice 16: When we went through our OCP

[2:17:24] Voice 16: and through the policy statement of the Islands Trust,

[2:17:28] Voice 16: which our OCP has to conform to,

[2:17:31] Voice 16: we found that there's plenty of policies

[2:17:34] Voice 16: that require us to look at character issues

[2:17:40] Voice 16: environmental issues uh even some hints towards social justice issues the problem with the policy

[2:17:46] Voice 16: is that they cannot be enforced they're voluntary so what we decided to do is if we are going to

[2:17:52] Voice 16: actually manifest our official community plan as our community has envisioned by adopting it

[2:18:00] Voice 16: then the only thing we could do is provide some regulations in order to make those enforceable

[2:18:06] Voice 16: um it had been broached before as as Cameron mentioned we didn't feel at the time that the

[2:18:14] Voice 16: sizes that were um that came about through some form of compromise um were reasonable enough and

[2:18:23] Voice 16: I think uh if you're going to begin um this discussion first off the justification why

[2:18:29] Voice 16: you're doing it is critically important the second thing I think you're going to have to do

[2:18:33] Voice 16: is to consider the tougher question is how does the community feel about just

[2:18:41] Voice 16: how big a house is necessary for someone and that is going to be tough because

[2:18:46] Voice 16: you start getting private right you also get into people's lifestyles and all

[2:18:50] Voice 16: that sort of stuff but if you're going to start dealing with affordability if

[2:18:53] Voice 16: you're going to start dealing with cost of living if you're going to start

[2:18:56] Voice 16: dealing with the ability of people to hold their properties and through us

[2:19:01] Voice 16: through property taxes which are based on the assessed value of the building bigger buildings

[2:19:06] Voice 16: cost more then you're going to have to to bite a bullet I guess and make a tough decision and say

[2:19:11] Voice 16: do people need more than a 5,000 square foot house do they need more than a 3,800 square

[2:19:17] Voice 16: house foot house on a what size lot and I strongly advise you to try and relate the

[2:19:21] Voice 16: the house size to the property size which is difficult enough because these islands don't have

[2:19:27] Voice 16: of a conformity or a uniformity in any lot size.

[2:19:32] Voice 16: So it does make a difference.

[2:19:33] Voice 16: And particularly if you're gonna try and tie

[2:19:35] Voice 16: to lot coverage, which I also think is important.

[2:19:38] Voice 16: So you have your house size, but if you can cover your house

[2:19:41] Voice 16: in another 50,000 square feet of accessory police,

[2:19:45] Voice 16: you're not really advancing the cause

[2:19:47] Voice 16: to protect the environment.

[2:19:48] Voice 16: So there's a number of factors that come in

[2:19:51] Voice 16: that I think that to some extent we began on

[2:19:55] Voice 16: and we lost track of, and we lost track of for essentially political reasons and people getting

[2:20:02] Voice 16: offended, and certainly the largest one is what Cameron touched on, and that is the concept of

[2:20:07] Voice 16: legal non-conformity. That is, in my opinion, it's a red herring. People have said it's going

[2:20:16] Voice 16: to affect my insurance. I've spoken to brokers. I've spoken to a number of other insurance people,

[2:20:23] Voice 16: and they said that simply is not the case your legal non-conforming does not have any implications

[2:20:29] Voice 16: on your insurance at all some people have questioned that and i've asked them for proof

[2:20:33] Voice 16: give me a letter from your broker or your underwriter that tells me that that will be

[2:20:37] Voice 16: that is their position nobody's brought that forward to me the second thing was it's going

[2:20:43] Voice 16: to affect my appraisal i've talked to appraisers appraisers have told me we don't care if it's

[2:20:48] Voice 16: legal long before we appraise the structure that is there and the land value of which it stands

[2:20:52] Voice 16: so that's another red herring other people have said that it's a stigma well if it's a stigma

[2:20:57] Voice 16: it's a voluntary stigma that you're placing on yourself because any house on these islands

[2:21:01] Voice 16: built more than four years ago is legal non-conforming already according to the building

[2:21:06] Voice 16: code it does not impact your lifestyle doesn't impact your living there it doesn't change a

[2:21:11] Voice 16: damn thing so you have to explain to people and bite the bullet that legal non-conforming is a

[2:21:17] Voice 16: a no-brainer. It does not impact whatsoever. So any move which we have initially started on

[2:21:25] Voice 16: to determine a floor area based on the practice of legal non-conformity, I think is the wrong

[2:21:33] Voice 16: direction to take, because I think that leads into discrimination. I don't think it's, if we're

[2:21:40] Voice 16: going to stand on the principle and say that all new construction must conform to a specific

[2:21:47] Voice 16: bylaw limiting floor space, you can't then just turn around and say, well, it's only

[2:21:51] Voice 16: the guys that haven't built yet, but the other guys can go as big as you like.

[2:21:54] Voice 16: So I've got a real problem with that and we're going to have to kick that around the table

[2:21:58] Voice 16: many times before it comes to any conclusion.

[2:22:02] Voice 16: But I don't want to go on too much, but certainly justification is important and then establish

[2:22:07] Voice 16: establish to what extent you want to go, how big of a house do you really think is necessary,

[2:22:12] Voice 16: that is going to give people's lifestyles some opportunity to grow, but also how will that size

[2:22:20] Voice 16: impact the character of the island overall, the impact, the character of your neighborhood,

[2:22:27] Voice 16: impact your neighbors as far as resources and all that sort of stuff, sight lines,

[2:22:32] Voice 16: all that sort of stuff, and then bite the bullet and make a choice.

[2:22:35] Voice 16: I'm

[2:22:37] Voice 10: going to just insert one thing here before we keep going so the legal non-conforming thing

[2:22:41] Voice 10: the one thing that we added if I remember correctly to that addressed an issue we had here

[2:22:46] Voice 10: about legal non-conforming was if your house burnt to the ground more than 75 percent or 80 percent

[2:22:53] Voice 10: or whatever it was that you are allowed to rebuild the footprint and square footage that you had

[2:23:00] Voice 10: prior so that we stated explicitly I think in our draft or because that was a

[2:23:07] Voice 10: concern and it wasn't something that we can get a hundred percent clear answer

[2:23:11] Voice 10: on one way or the other so just by putting it in the bylaw we clarified

[2:23:15] Voice 10: what our intent was it doesn't mean you can build it bigger doesn't mean you can

[2:23:19] Voice 10: build it in a different location all those would have to be variances if you

[2:23:22] Voice 10: came back and said you wanted to move it to a different location that would have

[2:23:25] Voice 10: to be variance yeah

[2:23:26] Voice 16: there is confusion because the legal law conformity as far

[2:23:30] Voice 16: as destruction by fire something that there's a difference between the lg local government act

[2:23:35] Voice 16: determining what legal non-conforming is and also the 75 actually i think comes from the capital

[2:23:40] Voice 16: regional district with respect to rebuilding according to the building code and if you have to

[2:23:44] Voice 16: conform to the new codes and all that sort of stuff um we have certainly want to include that

[2:23:51] Voice 16: exactly what you're saying that without the 75 if you have an existing building and it's destroyed

[2:23:57] Voice 16: and it is larger than the current bylaw would allow you're allowed to build on

[2:24:04] Voice 16: the same site to the same maximum floor space that you originally had period no

[2:24:10] Voice 16: questions no problems and

[2:24:12] Voice 20: I think that's an important Devon I think that's

[2:24:15] Voice 20: that's really I mean whether or not we whether you know again these are

[2:24:18] Voice 20: self-pendered ideas that are being kicked around at the same time so

[2:24:21] Voice 20: So whether we have a companion set of permitted house sizes for homes built before any change,

[2:24:29] Voice 20: or whether we just do what you're suggesting, I mean, I think your idea has a lot of merit.

[2:24:35] Voice 20: But the underlying idea was not to penalize people for having built once upon a time according

[2:24:43] Voice 20: to whatever bylaw was in place, and yet at the same time, we didn't want to handcuff

[2:24:48] Voice 20: ourselves from being progressive and being able to look at house sizes and setbacks as uh as we

[2:24:54] Voice 20: learn more information and solve more development patterns impressions on the island so i think

[2:24:57] Voice 20: we're trying to find a blend here the last thing i was just going to say ben up was one of the one

[2:25:03] Voice 20: of the one of the other rationales for this is anytime we started having a conversation with

[2:25:07] Voice 20: the community about about this topic some people would say why are you even bringing this up we

[2:25:12] Voice 20: like things the way they are don't change a thing and i think the point that we were trying to point

[2:25:18] Voice 20: out to a lot of people was that if people like things the way they are then if we if we took no

[2:25:24] Voice 20: action then the community that we know it to be now will be radically different in 20 or 25 years

[2:25:32] Voice 20: because there is so much the the homes the housing stock that is there right now

[2:25:39] Voice 20: is is much smaller than what could be otherwise provided and as more and more money shows up on

[2:25:45] Voice 20: these islands and i got nothing against people that have money but as more and more people

[2:25:49] Voice 20: or more and more money show up there's a tendency and a trend to build bigger and bigger homes on

[2:25:55] Voice 20: the same size of properties and we're certainly seeing that on south pender and and over a period

[2:26:01] Voice 20: of time and we see it out maybe you can look at portions of west vancouver and portions of surrey

[2:26:06] Voice 20: and other other the phenomenon is not just located here but over time the neighborhood the character

[2:26:12] Voice 20: of the place that you fell in love with will be radically different and it will all be um

[2:26:17] Voice 20: and there'll be there won't even be an opportunity for the neighbors around

[2:26:22] Voice 20: the property to even express their concern or try and have any ability to influence because

[2:26:27] Voice 20: the bylaws are so permissive that that people can do what they wanted and and and again that's

[2:26:33] Voice 20: really why we wanted to have this conversation

[2:26:35] Voice 10: so i think it might be helpful just from your

[2:26:40] Voice 10: Your guys' point of view, too, if you want, just for us to name, like, why we are walking down the road of this bylaw, too, because there's a couple things that I think, in addition to what you said, that I would name, too, and it came up earlier today in the town hall, are we talking, and I think the questions were something about, like, what are we thinking about house size in terms of numbers?

[2:27:01] Voice 10: what what are we thinking about um is it just the building is it accessory buildings and

[2:27:06] Voice 10: is it also impermeable surfaces so like of each of those i think so the reasoning from my

[2:27:13] Voice 10: perspective is rural character like you've named like we could easily given the current

[2:27:18] Voice 10: violence and the lack of voice on this here we could easily have really giant matches and we

[2:27:25] Voice 10: are seeing some of that start to show up but it could actually especially with the property

[2:27:29] Voice 10: have prices the way they're going, it could really cause a big transformation in the next 10 years.

[2:27:34] Voice 10: That's one. The other one is, you know, as we think about climate change issues in this space,

[2:27:43] Voice 10: which we're seeing a lot of impacts related to like tree strikes on houses and other things,

[2:27:49] Voice 10: people are clearing more area around their houses. And so like, you put a footprint of a house,

[2:27:54] Voice 10: then you clear an area around it. And if you're in Magic Lake, well, then you're at your neighbor,

[2:27:59] Voice 10: your lot line right so from a strike perspective of trees and we're seeing it when people build

[2:28:05] Voice 10: too close into dpas so that's development or uh like permanent areas in the woodland areas we're

[2:28:11] Voice 10: seeing strikes and then they want to cut the trees in the in the dpa it's like get the dpa there to

[2:28:15] Voice 10: protect the tree not your house so build your house for the back so like and so just thinking

[2:28:19] Voice 10: about those combination of things i think is really important in this so we're trying to do

[2:28:23] Voice 10: this balance of like having housing and also protecting contiguous forests protecting like

[2:28:30] Voice 10: trees and ecosystems so that would be another one and then the last one i think i would say

[2:28:36] Voice 10: is um there's something about the impermeable surface and other building like i like the way

[2:28:43] Voice 10: that you did it around having like total amount of building kind of all building coverage because

[2:28:49] Voice 10: that gets at the issue of water infiltration so if we have surfaces like

[2:28:54] Voice 10: roofs if they're catchment that's better but like if we have just surfaces where

[2:28:59] Voice 10: water is just pouring onto the ground and there's the smaller surface of

[2:29:02] Voice 10: ground you're not going to get infiltration into the ground at the same

[2:29:06] Voice 10: rate that you would and our aquifers are refilling that's not our problem like we

[2:29:11] Voice 10: are getting recharge on our aquifers every year the problem is surface

[2:29:15] Voice 10: runoff and what that's causing in terms of surface runoff so i think that that's an issue and we need

[2:29:21] Voice 10: to really so there either has to be management plans in place for every property if you're going

[2:29:24] Voice 10: over a limit which would allow us to do that right the limit setting a limit doesn't mean you can

[2:29:31] Voice 10: never build a building bigger than this it just means you have to ask for a variance and you have

[2:29:34] Voice 10: to show the plan and then we can get into the minutia like okay so how

[2:29:37] Voice 10: are you diverting water

[2:29:38] Voice 10: or how are you storing water or whatever you know so that allows us some ability otherwise we don't

[2:29:43] Voice 10: have any ability to say a single thing about your house

[2:29:45] Trustee McConchie: yeah good conversation so the one thing I

[2:29:50] Trustee McConchie: wanted to add was that the way I'm reading what we're proposing is I feel like it's adding value

[2:29:57] Trustee McConchie: to our properties and

[2:30:00] Trustee McConchie: value natural value environmental value and actually keeping this place beautiful um i'm

[2:30:07] Trustee McConchie: thinking of a nightmare scenario where and i've seen it happen you know in various places where

[2:30:13] Trustee McConchie: i've lived or whatever where you've got your nice home and then because there's no regulations

[2:30:18] Trustee McConchie: all of a sudden your neighbor builds this giant thing you know or giant or just whatever just

[2:30:24] Trustee McConchie: just unregulated without regulations, proper regulations.

[2:30:27] Trustee McConchie: And then that decreases the value of your own property.

[2:30:30] Trustee McConchie: So this is,

[2:30:32] Trustee McConchie: this is an opportunity for say that person wants to build that big house.

[2:30:37] Trustee McConchie: Well, the community then has this committee to then go and say,

[2:30:42] Trustee McConchie: you know what? I've talked to my neighbors.

[2:30:45] Trustee McConchie: I don't want to disturb the environmental management of,

[2:30:50] Trustee McConchie: I don't want to make a giant monstrosity.

[2:30:52] Trustee McConchie: that's going to negatively impact the neighborhood then the trust committee can say like hey for sure

[2:30:57] Trustee McConchie: you thought about all these things we're going to get allow you to build a house larger than what

[2:31:02] Trustee McConchie: the bylaw says and so i look at this this bylaw as kind of a like if it passes as a uh a goalie

[2:31:11] Trustee McConchie: for the community to use the hockey analogy

[2:31:14] Voice 6: where it's

[2:31:15] Trustee McConchie: really a chance a last chance for the

[2:31:18] Trustee McConchie: community to have a say if there if there happens to be a very possibly unlikely but it does happen

[2:31:25] Trustee McConchie: a scenario where where a neighbor doesn't seem to care about the community and the effects of

[2:31:31] Trustee McConchie: its house on the neighboring neighbors because there's a lot of areas in this uh on this island

[2:31:36] Trustee McConchie: that are highly densified to pre-island's trust era right and uh i i see this as a pretty logical

[2:31:45] Trustee McConchie: going forward. But one thing I wanted to ask you guys while you're here is it's interesting

[2:31:49] Trustee McConchie: self-pender has more of you can guys can build a bigger cottage than we can. Your cottage

[2:31:54] Trustee McConchie: size is 900 square feet, if I'm not mistaken, or up to, I can't remember the exact number.

[2:31:59] Trustee McConchie: Nine, seven, is it nine or seven?

[2:32:00] Trustee McConchie: More than us.

[2:32:01] Trustee McConchie: Yeah.

[2:32:02] Voice 20: Right?

[2:32:03] Trustee McConchie: So I guess what we want to find out from the self-pender trustees today is whether

[2:32:09] Trustee McConchie: or not on our February 5th land use bylaw, when we present the cardboard cutouts and

[2:32:14] Trustee McConchie: the staff come in we do the you know hear from the community engagement you know whether or not

[2:32:19] Trustee McConchie: you want to be you guys want to be a part of that process um you know because for me it's logical

[2:32:24] Trustee McConchie: for the two islands to have relatively uniform uh uh bylaws particularly in this case uh

[2:32:34] Trustee McConchie: especially if we're going to protect do our job to preserve and protect so i wanted to know also

[2:32:39] Trustee McConchie: know you don't have to answer now but i want to know how we proceed we wanted to hear your

[2:32:43] Trustee McConchie: experiences we want to hear from you guys uh comments i'd

[2:32:47] Voice 16: certainly welcome that i i think

[2:32:50] Voice 16: by not uh having some coordination between the two islands and it's basically one community and

[2:32:56] Voice 16: two islands uh what we'll get is we'll get spillover effects so if we reduce or if you

[2:33:03] Voice 16: reduce house sizes and somebody wants a big house and we don't have those restrictions uh south

[2:33:08] Voice 16: vendor is going to load up we experience the same thing with stdrs you put restrictions in the stdrs

[2:33:15] Voice 16: and we had people coming to south bender and saying well we bought property down here specifically

[2:33:19] Voice 16: because you don't have any regulations for us so right so that then we have to turn around and

[2:33:25] Voice 16: jump through the hoops in order to get some regulations into sdbr so i think if we're this

[2:33:30] Voice 16: close with uh with a single lane bridge connecting us i think uh i mean we're twinned anyway i mean

[2:33:36] Voice 16: all our commercial activities up here so it seems to make sense to coordinate and and i

[2:33:41] Voice 20: if i could

[2:33:42] Voice 20: just add to that ben i um i would like to be i think um i after what steve's saying and i would

[2:33:48] Voice 20: also find it to be uh helpful for for both islands to be to be you know to attend the meeting that

[2:33:56] Voice 20: you're going to have in february um uh i'm again on self-pender um we took the approach of uh house

[2:34:05] Voice 20: sides uh we took the approach that there's not a one-size-fits-all approach to house size and

[2:34:11] Voice 20: then obviously a good planning good planning principles would would would uh dictates maybe

[2:34:18] Voice 20: too strong a word but would suggest that you want to make sure that there's scalability between

[2:34:25] Voice 20: the property and and the size of a house so i'm i'm assuming that bigger properties you've got

[2:34:31] Voice 20: some fairly large real properties on north bender that you would allow for the potential for a

[2:34:37] Voice 20: bigger home there than you would in a in a smaller a smaller lot because you can't handle that density

[2:34:43] Voice 20: without a bigger impact on the on the neighbors around it and so um yeah the other thing too is

[2:34:49] Voice 20: what we're looking at is one of the interesting things to me on the variant scene that ben talked

[2:34:54] Voice 20: about is that um that uh if somebody does want to build a bigger house even right now under the

[2:35:01] Voice 20: existing bylaw and and so it comes to the ltc uh for uh for consideration there is no guidelines

[2:35:10] Voice 20: that the ltc has in there at their there's no resources that the ltc members can look at in

[2:35:17] Voice 20: terms of you know fred smith wants to build a bigger house what is there is there any community

[2:35:23] Voice 20: driven values or attributes or considerations that that the ltc should be using as a bit of

[2:35:29] Voice 20: of a measuring stick when considering that variance.

[2:35:31] Voice 20: And so what Steve and I and Laura talked about

[2:35:34] Voice 20: at our last meeting was looking at,

[2:35:37] Voice 20: you know, whether there ought to be something,

[2:35:40] Voice 20: again, we got an open conversation with our community,

[2:35:43] Voice 20: but if somebody does want to build something larger,

[2:35:46] Voice 20: should we have some consideration about the materiality

[2:35:49] Voice 20: or the way it's oriented so it has less impacts

[2:35:51] Voice 20: on the neighbors around it?

[2:35:52] Voice 20: You know, how is the massing presented

[2:35:55] Voice 20: So it can give that person the size you're looking for without having a dominating impact

[2:36:01] Voice 20: on the properties around it.

[2:36:02] Voice 20: So that would be just one thing I would say is just going to think about at the same time.

[2:36:06] Voice 20: That'd be really good.

[2:36:07] Trustee McConchie: So then maybe from this meeting, can we proceed with the February 5th meeting being a joint?

[2:36:13] Trustee McConchie: Well, the thing is, is we're also, we're talking, we're covering a whole bunch of other issues.

[2:36:17] Trustee McConchie: So at the beginning of the meeting, because I know a lot of people on the island are going

[2:36:21] Trustee McConchie: going to be maximum house size and then facebook will make up information like it does all the time

[2:36:27] Trustee McConchie: it'll show up and then and then they'll need clarification so i think it would be really

[2:36:33] Trustee McConchie: helpful because so the community buys in to this idea of what we're trying to do we're not trying

[2:36:38] Trustee McConchie: to create a machiavellian big brother environmental dictatorship that in fact it's a joint uh

[2:36:45] Trustee McConchie: uh, political, uh, review. And at the beginning of the February 5th meeting, we could have the

[2:36:50] Trustee McConchie: self-paying trustees come and immediately discuss this. So I know we talked about how to arrange

[2:36:55] Trustee McConchie: the meeting and it's great to have people walk in and look at cardboard cutouts, but I definitely

[2:36:59] Trustee McConchie: want to have a section where you guys are speaking and have this

[2:37:02] Trustee McConchie: kind of conversation

[2:37:03] Trustee McConchie: after we propose the, the, the bylaw, the potential bylaw. Does that make sense?

[2:37:08] Trustee McConchie: Is that what

[2:37:09] Voice 6: I wanted to

[2:37:09] Trustee McConchie: know? We wanted to know what you guys thought, I guess. Yep. I'm in.

[2:37:11] Voice 6: yeah that'd

[2:37:12] Trustee McConchie: be good every day that's very good you're on saturdays are you yeah that's no we

[2:37:17] Trustee McConchie: twisted staff's arms for

[2:37:19] Voice 10: staff

[2:37:24] Voice 10: um and and one other thing just about yeah so yeah we're we're trying to do any community

[2:37:29] Voice 10: related meetings in that kind of time because shockingly both of us work and others work

[2:37:34] Voice 10: so it'll be and i know saturday is not perfect for everyone but it it does allow some flexibility

[2:37:40] Voice 10: The one other thing about the big lots here, the issue, so one of the things we have to

[2:37:45] Voice 10: be really careful about, we pretty much can go up to 10 acres and then everything 10 acres

[2:37:50] Voice 10: and up has to be in one category.

[2:37:52] Voice 10: And the reason for that is currently you can, you can, well not in the ALR necessarily,

[2:37:59] Voice 10: but currently as a general rule, you can subdivide a property to 10 acres and we can't do anything

[2:38:05] Voice 10: about it necessarily because it's in the bylaws so people can go out and do that on a big property

[2:38:09] Voice 10: so we wouldn't want to increase the house say if you had 50 acres you could build this size

[2:38:14] Voice 10: of house

[2:38:14] Voice 10: because then you could go and you could build the house and then you could subdivide it

[2:38:17] Voice 10: and then you'd have a big house on a 10 acre lot so so 10 acres is the ceiling of like uh

[2:38:23] Voice 10: the limit that we want unless we've radically changed density on some of those properties

[2:38:27] Voice 10: which i'm sure is a very unpopular thought on this island but yeah

[2:38:31] Voice 16: it would also be nice

[2:38:32] Voice 16: particularly for agricultural properties, and I think that the ALC has moved in that direction,

[2:38:40] Voice 16: but there are times when an owner of a large property wants to have either some help,

[2:38:50] Voice 9: or

[2:38:51] Voice 16: either wants to have family move on, and they're not allowed to have a secondary residence

[2:38:55] Voice 16: for

[2:38:56] Voice 9: that

[2:38:58] Voice 16: person without subdivision and I think that forcing something to subdivide a property

[2:39:02] Voice 16: in order to have a secondary home is really onerous and

[2:39:06] Voice 6: punitive

[2:39:07] Voice 16: so if there's any way that

[2:39:09] Voice 16: some sort of regulation to be put into effect that you can build a secondary house or or even

[2:39:17] Voice 16: maximize maximize half your density say without subdivision to go ahead on it then that would

[2:39:25] Voice 16: probably help property owners to some extent yeah that gets i know there's some legal issues to do

[2:39:31] Voice 16: with that well

[2:39:32] Voice 12: we're doing just that on salt spring for large and so the alr has a set of rules

[2:39:37] Voice 12: through the alc that we we're modifying our land use bylaws for that but then we have large farms

[2:39:46] Voice 12: that are not on the alr and we're working on a bylaw that allows them to exchange subdivision

[2:39:53] Voice 12: potential for the dwelling so

[2:39:57] Voice 9: that we can maintain the

[2:39:58] Voice 12: farm as a large farm but we do need additional dwellings because

[2:40:02] Voice 12: aging parent or whatever the

[2:40:04] Voice 12: situation is to operate the farm and that's receiving you know

[2:40:08] Voice 12: support so far from the farmers that would be a really positive

[2:40:11] Voice 10: proactive way

[2:40:13] Voice 12: to do it instead

[2:40:13] Voice 12: of punitive and say like

[2:40:14] Voice 10: hey you can't do this instead like say here this is an option that you

[2:40:18] Voice 10: have to that would be a really good idea and

[2:40:20] Voice 20: then the other and yeah the other thing when you we

[2:40:24] Voice 20: were i think that we were summarizing some of the potential things for consideration is it and again

[2:40:30] Voice 20: it goes actually back to when wendy and bruce were the trustees is um in the conversation that came

[2:40:35] Voice 20: out at that point in time we ended up with for a given property size there was sort of there was a

[2:40:41] Voice 20: imagine a bigger number a bigger envelope of potential area and and then

[2:40:48] Voice 20: within that envelope of buildable area there was this there was a maximum house

[2:40:53] Voice 20: size but you could you could build smaller than that house if you built

[2:40:59] Voice 20: smaller than that maximum house size then if you were hypothetically 500 feet

[2:41:03] Voice 20: smaller than your maximum house size that extra 500 feet could be allocated

[2:41:07] Voice 20: to wood sheds or accessory buildings or chicken coops or whatever so gave

[2:41:10] Voice 20: give people you know one larger total buildable area but there's a flexibility how they may want

[2:41:16] Voice 20: to utilize that because i think again in rural properties it's not just the house that is

[2:41:22] Voice 20: something that is uh you know you need more than just a house that you live on a little property

[2:41:27] Voice 20: and then i think

[2:41:29] Trustee McConchie: there's some merit to that approach so we're requested by a plan of stock

[2:41:34] Trustee McConchie: bill to provide direction one of the directions if i'm understanding is this joint meeting idea

[2:41:38] Trustee McConchie: at the beginning the other thing we need to talk about is your guys's numbers are different from

[2:41:42] Trustee McConchie: our numbers we like our

[2:41:44] Trustee McConchie: numbers at the moment so um before we go to the february 5th meeting

[2:41:50] Trustee McConchie: do we need to go into the meeting with more uniform numbers so we do not confuse the public

[2:41:56] Trustee McConchie: further or is that is that relevant to the south bender trustees the

[2:42:00] Voice 16: only question the only thing

[2:42:01] Voice 16: i'd throw on the table for you there is that uh you need to establish the principles and the

[2:42:08] Voice 16: the reasons why you're doing it and get that a certain amount of buy-in uh with the public

[2:42:12] Voice 16: because if you come out and start throwing numbers around then the whole discussion is going to be

[2:42:17] Voice 16: about the metrics

[2:42:17] Voice 6: and

[2:42:19] Voice 16: uh and the principles are going to be lost so if if you already have

[2:42:23] Voice 16: established in the community uh and you've got some support within the community the principles

[2:42:28] Voice 16: and the reasons why you're doing this are bona fide um then i would say yeah throw out some

[2:42:34] Voice 16: members for discussions as well but um i wouldn't do it too early because um the conversation gets

[2:42:41] Voice 16: a little lost but the

[2:42:42] Trustee McConchie: information is public already what the numbers are you mean the

[2:42:46] Trustee McConchie: south peter oh yeah yeah

[2:42:48] Voice 10: we've had draft numbers but

[2:42:50] Trustee McConchie: my point is that there's public information

[2:42:52] Trustee McConchie: already so we're going to come to a meeting together to discuss this do we want to have a

[2:42:59] Trustee McConchie: more uniform number or do are we south pender is going to propose a different size than north pender

[2:43:06] Trustee McConchie: right now we should talk about that well

[2:43:07] Voice 13: so let's talk about our

[2:43:08] Voice 13: numbers well

[2:43:10] Voice 16: i know i want to

[2:43:10] Voice 16: provide that we've got forum issues

[2:43:12] Voice 16: here so yeah

[2:43:13] Voice 12: i was going to say we can't get

[2:43:14] Voice 16: too deep into this

[2:43:15] Voice 16: conversation we're

[2:43:16] Voice 12: not a south pender meeting right now so we need to be cautious that we're

[2:43:19] Voice 12: because we haven't given you fair notice so i've just i've just asked you to be be cautious of

[2:43:25] Trustee McConchie: of

[2:43:25] Voice 12: asking us

[2:43:26] Trustee McConchie: to commit to something that would

[2:43:28] Voice 12: get us

[2:43:29] Voice 12: in a future

[2:43:30] Voice 10: conversation

[2:43:32] Voice 16: is what we're saying.

[2:43:33] Voice 10: Yeah, so my suggestion to alleviate

[2:43:35] Voice 10: that terrible, annoying glitch that the community probably

[2:43:39] Voice 10: doesn't understand at all and is irrelevant for most people

[2:43:41] Voice 10: but is legal, is do what paid?

[2:43:47] Voice 10: I can't seem to find our numbers.

[2:43:48] Voice 10: Are our numbers here?

[2:43:49] Voice 10: Yeah,

[2:43:49] Voice 3: they're not on the board.

[2:43:50] Voice 9: I'm sorry.

[2:43:51] Voice 9: No, they're not.

[2:43:51] Voice 9: But they are on that piece of paper I gave you

[2:43:54] Voice 9: and i had feeling oh yeah yeah

[2:43:56] Voice 9: yeah i gotcha okay one thing that is different obviously the number

[2:44:00] Voice 9: but um there is one less lot area category um for north tenor which can be amended

[2:44:09] Voice 9: but that's based on the fact that uh properties larger than 1.2 hectares um are permitted to

[2:44:17] Voice 9: cottage uh so that's why there was a additional right but that can be amended still very dry

[2:44:24] Voice 9: so if you're wanting some similarity between south pender we could add another one area

[2:44:31] Voice 9: well

[2:44:32] Trustee McConchie: we'll let you guys go back to your committee to discuss that at a different time

[2:44:36] Trustee McConchie: then i guess the other thing i want to address planner stock deals whether or not we're because

[2:44:41] Trustee McConchie: because I like what South Pander has

[2:44:42] Trustee McConchie: with regards to cottages.

[2:44:44] Trustee McConchie: I want to increase the amount,

[2:44:47] Trustee McConchie: as a trustee, I want to allow

[2:44:49] Trustee McConchie: for an increased cottage size.

[2:44:53] Trustee McConchie: I guess what I'm seeing is the total floor area

[2:44:55] Trustee McConchie: of all buildings may not exceed,

[2:44:58] Trustee McConchie: and this is in the draft bylaw number 122.

[2:45:05] Trustee McConchie: You know, is that, and we don't have that category.

[2:45:09] Trustee McConchie: You know what I'm saying?

[2:45:10] Voice 9: If that was a proposed option,

[2:45:12] Voice 9: and the people's staff report so we can and

[2:45:17] Voice 10: I can bring down

[2:45:18] Trustee McConchie: the numbers okay great yeah let's do

[2:45:19] Trustee McConchie: that

[2:45:19] Voice 10: yeah okay so let me just make sure I understand that so for which one was it then

[2:45:25] Voice 10: so here I'll

[2:45:28] Voice 10: show you here

[2:45:29] Trustee McConchie: self-pender has total so for example just for the public second call

[2:45:33] Trustee McConchie: this is

[2:45:34] Trustee McConchie: an excerpt from draft self-pender LTC bylaw 122 in our staff report so for let's say

[2:45:41] Trustee McConchie: your 10-acre rule so on 10 acres right now the total floor area of all buildings may not exceed

[2:45:49] Trustee McConchie: 20 000 square feet yeah yeah that's quite

[2:45:52] Trustee McConchie: this we're not

[2:45:53] Trustee McConchie: this true committee is not a

[2:45:55] Trustee McConchie: machiavellian environmental dictatorship you still can build 20 000 square feet according

[2:46:01] Trustee McConchie: to your draft one of the owners is canadian tiger guys right

[2:46:05] Voice 15: now

[2:46:06] Trustee McConchie: my point

[2:46:07] Trustee McConchie: is trustee morrison if we

[2:46:09] Voice 15: don't have that second

[2:46:09] Trustee McConchie: category we just

[2:46:11] Trustee McConchie: have the floor area and we're trying to communicate to the

[2:46:13] Trustee McConchie: public so they don't think that we're trying to create problems for their lives right i think

[2:46:20] Voice 20: there is some merit because i mean in some ways um i mean a couple things with south pender um

[2:46:26] Voice 20: you know the maximum ridge height the height from from the from the ground to the top of the roof

[2:46:32] Voice 20: is higher for a single family dwelling than for an accessory building yes um

[2:46:38] Voice 20: and so the massing

[2:46:40] Voice 20: when you build when you build a big single family home it will be more dominant than accessory

[2:46:45] Voice 20: buildings but that being said if you didn't have any governors or caveats on the size of

[2:46:51] Voice 20: accessory buildings you can you can be fairly impactful on the properties around you

[2:46:56] Voice 20: if if all you if you only kept your eye on the house size but didn't speak about other things

[2:47:02] Voice 20: things on the property, it might have unintended consequences.

[2:47:06] Voice 20: I think the reason we're

[2:47:07] Voice 20: having an overall area that you

[2:47:10] Voice 3: can build to,

[2:47:11] Voice 10: including impervious

[2:47:13] Voice 3: areas.

[2:47:14] Voice 10: Yeah, I know the impervious areas I want to come back to.

[2:47:15] Voice 10: So I am all for that second column, like adding that second column back in, the numbers that

[2:47:23] Voice 10: are in that, I think as it stands right now, I would like that to include all impervious

[2:47:30] Voice 10: of services because the issue there that and it is a dilemma right because we have to think about

[2:47:38] Voice 10: that with people who want to pave driveway because it's just a swamp in their area or whatever

[2:47:42] Voice 10: but um and so i think that's an okay thing to take out to the community and have a conversation with

[2:47:47] Voice 10: and see if we can actually find examples that bring that that are reasonable right because

[2:47:53] Voice 10: that's that's the way to do it it's like if we if we put in that second column and then people come

[2:47:58] Voice 10: back and like my property is xyz i'm like great then we need to adjust it this way like and then

[2:48:02] Voice 10: that's okay you just do that right so

[2:48:04] Voice 9: point of clarity so for the south pender land use bylaw

[2:48:08] Voice 9: um the south fender led regulates massing of buildings uh with this total flaring

[2:48:16] Voice 9: flooring calculation but north pender um currently or the proposed bylaw there's a lot coverage

[2:48:23] Voice 9: So that's how North Pender is dealing with it, and the lot coverage will include impervious

[2:48:28] Voice 9: surfaces.

[2:48:29] Voice 9: So there is a mechanism proposed that would take care of that, but the LTC could then

[2:48:37] Voice 9: add an additional regulation that would include the total foyer.

[2:48:41] Voice 9: So

[2:48:42] Voice 10: I think the column issue, like if we were able to put what you just said in a tabular

[2:48:49] Voice 10: format that would be helpful because we like and then it's not a percentage of the oh so right now

[2:48:55] Voice 10: we have it just as a percentage so maybe we just put it as a percentage like so it can be this

[2:48:59] Voice 10: range of square footage right so on a lot that's 0.4 hectare to an acre then we we basically put

[2:49:08] Voice 10: so that you're the 10 or 25 or whatever it was for the percentage is this to this range

[2:49:16] Voice 10: that would be the way to do it because then it's easier to communicate with people right now

[2:49:19] Voice 10: bearing it in a separate space is very hard to communicate with people

[2:49:22] Voice 10: so I think that would be better if we put it in the column like like Ben's app

[2:49:27] Voice 10: and then um but put it as like the range of those different kind of yes

[2:49:34] Voice 10: yeah can I just

[2:49:36] Voice 20: just um because we we actually I think the idea of lot coverage is an important

[2:49:41] Voice 20: thing. It was once upon a time was in our land use bylaw and

[2:49:45] Voice 20: then seemingly, I don't

[2:49:47] Voice 20: know how it was removed in the 2016, I think, iteration of the bylaw. But do people understand

[2:49:55] Voice 20: the difference between maximum house size or the number of buildings and what lot coverage

[2:49:59] Voice 20: actually relates to? No sense in going over it, but yeah, there is a difference. So you

[2:50:04] Voice 20: You could, you could deal with impervious surfaces under the, under, under, no, under

[2:50:11] Voice 20: lot coverage and, and, and not, because I guess the other thing that always gets tricky

[2:50:18] Voice 20: is trying to measure these things out, especially when it's, you know.

[2:50:24] Voice 10: Yeah, that's why the, yeah, that's why it's a little bit better to do, I think, not, when

[2:50:31] Voice 10: Whenever you start to include impervious surfaces,

[2:50:33] Voice 10: it gets really complicated

[2:50:34] Voice 10: because then you have to survey every little piece.

[2:50:37] Voice 10: And as long as you're not getting close

[2:50:38] Voice 10: to the upper limit of your percentage, you're fine.

[2:50:41] Voice 6: It's

[2:50:41] Voice 10: when you start to get close

[2:50:42] Voice 10: to the upper level of your percentage,

[2:50:43] Voice 10: then it's like, yeah, go out there and get a survey done.

[2:50:45] Voice 10: If you're going to hit that close to the mark,

[2:50:47] Voice 10: that's really pretty excessive mark.

[2:50:49] Voice 10: Like, no, yeah, go get it surveyed.

[2:50:51] Voice 10: And

[2:50:52] Voice 20: what are you at, 25% log coverage?

[2:50:53] Voice 20: Do

[2:50:54] Voice 10: we lower it or do we keep it at 25%?

[2:50:55] Voice 9: It is at 25% currently.

[2:50:57] Trustee McConchie: Yeah, you can, yeah.

[2:50:58] Voice 9: So from a

[2:50:59] Voice 9: practical planning perspective,

[2:51:00] Voice 9: perspective uh if i gave an inquiry i find that actually what coverage is easier to assess because

[2:51:05] Voice 9: i can just look

[2:51:06] Voice 6: at the area but

[2:51:07] Voice 9: when you're dealing with total floor area when you're looking

[2:51:10] Voice 9: at an airflow you don't know if that that building is one story or two story so if you do shift to a

[2:51:16] Voice 9: total floor area it would be slightly more owner owner of some property owners because they would

[2:51:21] Voice 9: have to provide all information on every single building on that property with a total calculation

[2:51:27] Voice 9: calculation. So that is something to keep in mind as well. It could be slightly onerous.

[2:51:31] Voice 9: Yeah,

[2:51:31] Voice 10: so if we say the house size and we say the maximum cottage size and then everything

[2:51:36] Voice 10: else is coverage, I think it's the least onerous method of having people go ahead.

[2:51:42] Voice 10: Keep the lot coverage?

[2:51:43] Voice 10: Keep the lot coverage but put it into the table so people can see it. And then have

[2:51:48] Voice 10: a maximum cottage size and maybe the cottage size we have to think about. I like the clause

[2:51:53] Voice 10: you guys had that if you don't use your square footage on a house, you can kick it into your

[2:51:56] Voice 10: cottage i kind of like or into your accessories well

[2:51:58] Voice 20: yeah so let's just say using correct simple

[2:52:01] Voice 20: numbers if you've got maximum site coverage or sorry maximum building area of i don't know

[2:52:09] Voice 20: 5 000 square feet

[2:52:10] Voice 6: and

[2:52:11] Voice 20: you had a maximum house size of 2 500 then um um and you but you only

[2:52:20] Voice 20: built a 2 000 square feet that you would have you know 3 000 square feet for barns wood sheds

[2:52:25] Voice 20: chicken coops and that type of thing i i think there is merit in having an overall building area

[2:52:34] Voice 20: so again that includes every building but still keeping the site coverage because um i think the

[2:52:40] Voice 20: site coverage is important to dealing with amongst other things it encourages people i mean it's

[2:52:47] Voice 20: sometimes it's a it's you might be accused of sucking blown a little bit here because uh you

[2:52:53] Voice 20: know you don't want to build too high where it starts to have impacts on the on the properties

[2:52:57] Voice 20: around you but if you do we do encourage people to build a second story with a smaller footprint

[2:53:02] Voice 20: you're you know that's better for your the question of impervious services runoff and

[2:53:07] Voice 20: that type of thing so i i i i find certainly in lots of the municipalities where i do work

[2:53:13] Voice 20: they they they they have both a vacuum building area and site coverage that apply to the same

[2:53:20] Voice 20: property

[2:53:21] Voice 14: okay

[2:53:24] Trustee McConchie: is there any other direction you need from us regarding this issue i'm wondering

[2:53:28] Trustee McConchie: no

[2:53:28] Voice 9: i have that so

[2:53:31] Trustee McConchie: some eyes we're having a joint meeting on february 5th we are uh there's going

[2:53:37] Trustee McConchie: to be a better class you guys need to discuss your at a separate meeting uh this issue this

[2:53:46] Voice 7: This is your meeting? We'd love

[2:53:47] Trustee McConchie: to come if

[2:53:48] Voice 7: you want to invite us.

[2:53:48] Trustee McConchie: We wanted to extend the privilege of you guys coming and working with us.

[2:53:54] Trustee McConchie: And I think I hope future trust committees consider this an important thing.

[2:53:59] Trustee McConchie: When there are deemed to be important issues to address,

[2:54:03] Trustee McConchie: the North Pender committees and the South Pender committees

[2:54:05] Trustee McConchie: come to just kind of discuss them with the community.

[2:54:08] Trustee McConchie: Because what happens on South Pender is impacted on North Pender.

[2:54:13] Voice 20: So thank you guys.

[2:54:15] Voice 20: And thank you for inviting us. And I also want to say, and I might be wrong on this, but it wouldn't be the first time, but I think in, you know, all of us, all of the islands, you know, there's common policies, there's obviously the common commitment to the environment and the preservation of this fragile ecosystem that we live in.

[2:54:34] Voice 20: But I think we're probably the leaders when it comes to addressing this more sometimes emotional issue about house size.

[2:54:43] Voice 20: I'm not sure how many other islands have actually gone the distance we have.

[2:54:48] Voice 12: Not my

[2:54:49] Voice 12: experience.

[2:54:50] Voice 3: Yeah. So I think we're glad that we're taking this on.

[2:54:55] Voice 3: Yeah,

[2:54:56] Voice 7: the development pressure is a real thing.

[2:54:57] Voice 7: Thank

[2:54:58] Voice 3: you, Trustee Thorne. Thank you.

[2:54:59] Voice 3: Thank you. Thank you.

[2:55:00] Voice 3: Thank you,

[2:55:00] Voice 3: Laura. Good to see you.

[2:55:02] Voice 6: Yeah, we tried. We tried.

[2:55:03] Voice 6: Yeah.

[2:55:07] Voice 6: See you later.

[2:55:07] Voice 12: Thank you, guys.

[2:55:08] Voice 6: All

[2:55:10] Voice 12: right. How are we doing? Are we on to the commercial tourist accommodations?

[2:55:14] Voice 12: Yeah, we are.

[2:55:15] Voice 9: So

[2:55:16] Voice 6: over to you.

[2:55:16] Voice 12: Just

[2:55:17] Voice 9: to quickly circle back to the Maxton 4 area. Since there is an LTC meeting at the

[2:55:21] Voice 9: end of January, I can bring back just a very simple SOC report. So the LTC is not

[2:55:29] Voice 9: So moving on to our commercial tourist accommodation, which is C2 zoning, the LTC has requested

[2:55:40] Voice 9: groundwater mapping from our senior freshwater specialist and this mapping was supposed to

[2:55:46] Voice 9: be available on the Island's Press website December 1st, but unfortunately there has

[2:55:52] Voice 9: been a delay and that will be posted I believe next week.

[2:55:55] Voice 9: So there are some maps attached to the staff report and I must admit I am NOT a

[2:56:01] Voice 9: specialist in this field so if there are questions related to this mapping, we

[2:56:07] Voice 9: know the LTC could ask the senior freshwater specialist to zoom in

[2:56:11] Voice 9: from January when we have specific questions.

[2:56:15] Trustee McConchie: Sorry Frances, I

[2:56:17] Trustee McConchie: was just going to say, so basically the way I'm reading it,

[2:56:23] Trustee McConchie: this area is a zone commercial that's been discussed today at the town hall.

[2:56:29] Trustee McConchie: It's classified as critical assessment areas where there is a potential for

[2:56:34] Trustee McConchie: critical attention, but some data uncertainty.

[2:56:37] Trustee McConchie: We also mentioned that during the town hall,

[2:56:40] Trustee McConchie: now that we know who the folks are, because I didn't realize we weren't even,

[2:56:44] Trustee McConchie: we weren't even get ahold of you. So it's good to, I,

[2:56:46] Trustee McConchie: I would like to go do a site visit, find out from you guys,

[2:56:50] Trustee McConchie: what your plans are for water conservation then come back and have a discussion because i'm not

[2:56:56] Planner Testemale: clear on that

[2:56:57] Trustee McConchie: i haven't had a chance to visit the site uh i don't i haven't seen your proposal i

[2:57:02] Trustee McConchie: haven't seen anything right um and that is important at this point but hearing your comments

[2:57:08] Trustee McConchie: today uh was was great and you're asking for trust and i i thought that uh that's that's the

[2:57:15] Trustee McConchie: the trust committee should in good faith you know respond to that request so uh i'm not sure

[2:57:21] Trustee McConchie: if we need to send this particular issue to community dialogue at this like on the february

[2:57:27] Trustee McConchie: 5th meeting i'm not sure how to provide direction to planners doctor unless you did

[2:57:30] Voice 10: yeah i had some

[2:57:31] Voice 10: thoughts about that first of all i just wanted to clarify the um the tides at 1329 mckinnon

[2:57:38] Voice 10: is there another address i heard you say

[2:57:40] Voice 3: 33. we want that

[2:57:42] Voice 3: for for south housing which is for the

[2:57:44] Voice 3: out so okay okay

[2:57:46] Voice 10: so um 1329 1333 and then 1325 mckinnon have we heard anything from him uh they

[2:57:54] Voice 9: are open to reducing the density to three commercial guest accommodation right yeah i saw

[2:58:00] Voice 10: that okay okay so that's good to know and we also had somebody from 1349 mckinnon talk to us today

[2:58:05] Voice 10: we have had a lot of correspondence on this too just to be clear um and the issues that were

[2:58:11] Voice 10: identified here are things that we need to talk about and and i think they were covered across

[2:58:15] Voice 10: the two of you who talked they included water obviously which is a big thing ferry usage has

[2:58:21] Voice 10: come up in some of the emails car traffic so like the idea of like you know trying to gear it less

[2:58:27] Voice 10: car related dependent travel is helpful and fire water like fire suppression and management um in

[2:58:33] Voice 10: that area so those are some of the things that people have named um so i am happy to do a site

[2:58:40] Voice 10: visit i would like that site visit to be in the next month if it's possible like um before our

[2:58:45] Voice 10: january

[2:58:45] Voice 6: meeting because

[2:58:46] Voice 10: i do think we have to come up with like the concrete thing and it's not i'm

[2:58:50] Voice 10: like obviously i've been out and talked to you guys and like i i want to make this work for our

[2:58:55] Voice 10: community as a whole and the challenge we face with this type of um down zoning nobody's ever

[2:59:03] Voice 10: gonna like down zoning just to be clear no there's very rarely will somebody be like hey take away my

[2:59:09] Voice 10: my density um but the idea here if there is any kind of down zoning would be to be able to just

[2:59:16] Voice 10: do exactly what we're doing with you right now which is to try and get control of how the land

[2:59:20] Voice 10: is developed so that we're

[2:59:21] Voice 10: sure that there's water and that we're sure that there's community

[2:59:24] Voice 10: concerns have been met we don't have that in power except in a rezoning or in the situation

[2:59:31] Voice 10: of a covenant so totally love to come and talk to you and talk about what a covenant might look

[2:59:36] Voice 10: quite because while i would love to think that you're the best person in the world and actually

[2:59:40] Voice 10: thinking that like what you're doing is great i legally am never going to go for something that's

[2:59:44] Voice 10: not written down so um so it'll have to be it'll need to be a covenant or something well what's

[2:59:49] Trustee McConchie: awkward about this is that we've been talking about this for two and a half years

[2:59:54] Trustee McConchie: and then suddenly the real estate agent sells you a property without telling you that

[3:00:00] Trustee McConchie: we've been discussing this right and so we're in an awkward position we've used staff time

[3:00:05] Trustee McConchie: a groundwater management person we haven't heard anything tickety-boo suddenly there's a sale and

[3:00:13] Trustee McConchie: concerns so you can understand why we're we're now in a position where we're just like here we are

[3:00:18] Trustee McConchie: we gotta do our due diligence

[3:00:20] Voice 21: so

[3:00:21] Trustee McConchie: that's kind of where we're at right now i

[3:00:23] Voice 21: just think the

[3:00:24] Voice 21: comment right now the stage is hard because there's nothing there's nothing right no no

[3:00:28] Voice 10: and we would work that out so yeah

[3:00:30] Voice 10: we're happy to do that in conversation

[3:00:31] Voice 21: where this is going

[3:00:32] Voice 21: we're working together and we want to work with you i want to make it clear like our goal is to

[3:00:36] Voice 21: do this yeah like there is like for our own sake you know our own water because you know and you

[3:00:42] Voice 21: know just to be way over the top we want to be a leader in it and we say that because we really do

[3:00:50] Voice 21: yeah

[3:00:51] Voice 10: and not to get into a giant debate right now because we believe you the problem is if

[3:00:54] Voice 10: if you turned around and sold your property tomorrow, we're screwed.

[3:00:57] Voice 21: So,

[3:00:57] Voice 10: like, so...

[3:00:59] Voice 21: Yeah, yeah.

[3:01:00] Voice 10: Which

[3:01:00] Voice 21: we're not going to be, so...

[3:01:01] Voice 6: Yeah, and

[3:01:02] Trustee McConchie: actually, just so you know, going forward,

[3:01:04] Trustee McConchie: I don't even really think about personalities

[3:01:06] Trustee McConchie: when I make decisions.

[3:01:08] Trustee McConchie: It's very logical to me.

[3:01:10] Trustee McConchie: It's like, do you, you know,

[3:01:11] Trustee McConchie: because exactly Trustee Morrison's point

[3:01:14] Trustee McConchie: is that people die, oops,

[3:01:16] Trustee McConchie: unfortunately, as part of our reality of our existence,

[3:01:20] Trustee McConchie: and then that zoning stays the same,

[3:01:22] Trustee McConchie: and we and people come in with different intentions right

[3:01:26] Planner Testemale: if that makes

[3:01:26] Trustee McConchie: sense so i guess if it's okay

[3:01:28] Trustee McConchie: i'd love to plan a site visit in january after the holidays early january that'd be great that'd be

[3:01:34] Trustee McConchie: okay anytime so let's let's stay in contact with regards to that is that enough direction

[3:01:38] Trustee McConchie: and

[3:01:39] Voice 10: kim do you want to be there too like it would be great great

[3:01:42] Trustee McConchie: okay yeah so

[3:01:43] Voice 10: if you want to

[3:01:43] Voice 18: coordinate

[3:01:44] Voice 10: that and figure out what yeah

[3:01:46] Voice 18: just keep

[3:01:48] Voice 6: me posted if i can work it in i'll

[3:01:50] Voice 6: work it in

[3:01:51] Voice 6: Yeah, that'd be great. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[3:01:54] Voice 12: So nothing else than on the C2 for now.

[3:01:57] Voice 12: So

[3:01:57] Voice 9: the next one is the Driftwood Center.

[3:02:00] Voice 9: So at the October

[3:02:02] Voice 9: 22nd meeting, the LTC gave direction

[3:02:04] Voice 9: to staff to change their zoning from commercial to rental residential. And local governments now

[3:02:10] Voice 9: have the ability to resell land for multi-family residential rentals. So in the draft bylaw,

[3:02:19] Voice 9: this property has now proposed to be rezoned to this new residential rental zone and some of the

[3:02:28] Voice 9: highlights are that there would be a maximum number of residential rental units of 16 and

[3:02:35] Voice 9: there would be a maximum floor area of 1000 square feet. In addition the minimum lot size for subdivision

[3:02:42] Voice 9: would be reduced to 1.2 hectares in case the property owner would like to subdivide it off and potentially

[3:02:49] Voice 9: So if the LTC proceeds of rezoning the C2 portion of Driftwood Centre property to rental housing,

[3:02:57] Voice 9: staff will amend the draft OCP amendment by-law as well to include a rental housing policy and redesignation.

[3:03:07] Voice 10: Can I ask one question before we...

[3:03:10] Voice 10: So if we did this, this is one of those rezoning moments where we do or don't have control of what the end up...

[3:03:19] Voice 10: So if it was rezoned to residential, whatever, rental, can we put some kind of caveat in

[3:03:28] Voice 10: that rezoning description that basically says it can't be on groundwater or it has to be

[3:03:35] Voice 10: on stored water?

[3:03:36] Voice 10: Because there is an issue there both with sewer in terms of the elevation of the area

[3:03:41] Voice 10: and also with groundwater.

[3:03:42] Voice 10: water.

[3:03:44] Voice 9: We could potentially put a requirement in to require a cistern or water cistern collection

[3:03:53] Voice 9: system but to regulate the use of that in the land use bylaw would be difficult.

[3:04:00] Voice 10: Right so you

[3:04:01] Voice 10: can say that it's there but you can't say that the building operates off it. Is that what you're

[3:04:05] Voice 10: saying? Or you could say

[3:04:06] Voice 9: something along the lines that um something like South Pender has done for

[3:04:11] Voice 9: some of our little residential zones and flowing unit is not permitted unless there is a green water

[3:04:17] Voice 9: catchment uh system with the capacity of x leaders yeah that's

[3:04:21] Voice 9: what i'm talking about like that

[3:04:22] Voice 10: yeah

[3:04:23] Voice 9: so

[3:04:24] Voice 10: i would be interested in having that type of thing built in and i i would talk to dork and

[3:04:29] Voice 10: work through what that might be and like think about it

[3:04:31] Voice 10: with our community more broadly but

[3:04:34] Voice 10: just the water issues in that area are like increasingly challenging um and um we've heard

[3:04:41] Voice 10: about it with the new DU application and really just the pump testing challenges that they've had

[3:04:46] Voice 10: and so that would be one thing and then um and we can figure that out what that sounds like but

[3:04:52] Voice 10: um so that would be one thing the other thing would be uh fire suppression water

[3:04:56] Voice 10: like something related which doesn't necessarily have to be the same water

[3:05:00] Voice 10: but you know if you have a higher density potentially if that's something that goes ahead

[3:05:05] Voice 10: not having the ability to fight it in a summer season is an issue

[3:05:10] Voice 10: Yeah, and

[3:05:11] Voice 9: I understand that. I'm not sure what the options are in terms of having a

[3:05:17] Voice 9: regional land use by-law, but what I could do is report back again at the January meeting

[3:05:22] Voice 9: for some options.

[3:05:23] Voice 10: And it might be a good thing to just check in with Dorothy and with the fire department

[3:05:27] Voice 10: about, like, if that is something that you want in that region, like, what would that

[3:05:30] Voice 10: look like? What would be the ask to be able to have the capacity to quit? Because I'm

[3:05:34] Voice 10: not a firefighter, so I don't know.

[3:05:36] Voice 12: on any multi-family housing fire suppression fire water is a huge issue that gets calculated

[3:05:43] Voice 12: either the building permit or the funders and all of that because i know every project we've

[3:05:47] Voice 12: had on salt spring it's been okay it's been a very particular item that has had to be discussed

[3:05:52] Voice 12: is it seasonal

[3:05:53] Voice 10: here like in this in the winter we'd have probably a gushing like out of the out

[3:05:58] Voice 10: of the well water but in the summer

[3:06:01] Voice 12: no it has to be it's a year it's a it's a pressure there's

[3:06:04] Voice 12: that there's very strict multifamily housing, very strict.

[3:06:09] Voice 10: All right, sorry, that was just my big concerns. I don't know if

[3:06:12] Voice 10: you wanted to say anything or if Dorothy wants to add any comments.

[3:06:15] Voice 5: I'm sure Dorothy would like to.

[3:06:17] Voice 5: Obviously.

[3:06:24] Voice 11: We've actually been in the process of finding a campground

[3:06:27] Voice 11: up in C2 building and that's what we would like to do. So we

[3:06:32] Voice 11: really do not want the zoning change. The campground makes more sense to us, we have,

[3:06:40] Voice 11: it also covers the fire suppression, we have a massive great pond up there, which is the fire

[3:06:46] Voice 11: suppression system for Driftwood Centre, so it's right in that C2 zone, so there's more than enough

[3:06:54] Voice 11: water in there. And we found out even more about water over the last couple of weeks.

[3:07:03] Voice 11: So yeah we're really opposed to changing the zoning because we're in the process of

[3:07:09] Voice 11: planning this campground up there. We want something similar to prior park.

[3:07:14] Voice 11: Obviously we have to put in toilets and showers and things like that but that's the plan we're

[3:07:20] Voice 11: working on right now. On the other hand, the rental housing,

[3:07:26] Voice 11: I think is a good idea for some sea zone properties. What we

[3:07:36] Voice 11: would be interested in is now that the rural residential part

[3:07:41] Voice 11: of Barefoot has been subdivided, that top part would be a

[3:07:46] Voice 11: perfect spot for rental housing

[3:07:49] Voice 6: and

[3:07:51] Voice 11: so we would be happy to discuss changing that zone to the rental

[3:07:56] Voice 11: housing but we do not want to have the city's own change well

[3:08:02] Trustee McConchie: you'd have to have this see to

[3:08:03] Trustee McConchie: the correct me if i'm wrong in order to get a campground you'd have to have the zoning change

[3:08:07] Trustee McConchie: the

[3:08:07] Voice 11: commercial

[3:08:11] Trustee McConchie: i mean that's what i was asking i'm not for clarifying

[3:08:16] Trustee McConchie: anyways yes

[3:08:16] Voice 9: it is the campground is a permitted use in the c2 zone

[3:08:22] Voice 10: um and the the the land you're talking about is our real residential yeah

[3:08:27] Voice 11: yeah it's the top of

[3:08:30] Voice 11: when we've used it okay

[3:08:33] Voice 8: so

[3:08:34] Trustee McConchie: there's some substantial potential uh opportunities here

[3:08:39] Trustee McConchie: for us to work together on a on a on a good plan perhaps so um i guess what maybe would help the

[3:08:46] Trustee McConchie: local trust committee and our planners know is what to how to facilitate that conversation uh

[3:08:51] Trustee McConchie: and to then as we're as we're having a land use bylaw review we can perhaps before the end of our

[3:08:59] Trustee McConchie: term uh help you establish a plan or potentially i don't know if that's something you want to become

[3:09:04] Trustee McConchie: an election issue which you know so so i'm we're more than willing to to uh you know sit down i

[3:09:12] Trustee McConchie: think as a trustee

[3:09:13] Voice 11: i think there's potential for both both sides as

[3:09:17] Voice 11: i said i'm not opposed um to

[3:09:20] Voice 11: the rental housing and if you know another suggestion would be to add the rental housing

[3:09:26] Voice 11: into the um uses on the c2 but we don't want to lose that c2 because right now all our planning

[3:09:36] Voice 11: and effort and some costs have gone into planning this campground, you know, COVID kind of put

[3:09:42] Voice 11: a stop to going any further with it.

[3:09:45] Voice 11: Yeah,

[3:09:46] Trustee McConchie: and you can understand the intent, the original intent of changing the zoning was

[3:09:49] Trustee McConchie: because we hear from folks, well, is the original zoning, if I'm understanding correctly,

[3:09:54] Trustee McConchie: is allowed for another kind of resort or could be, it's a highly densified, 27

[3:10:02] Voice 11: units, right?

[3:10:06] Trustee McConchie: So the concern was from us, we're hearing from all the constituents that there's a need for subsidized housing.

[3:10:15] Trustee McConchie: And so we thought, well, businesses would benefit, especially local businesses that are struggling to find secure housing to help the commercial enterprises of the island.

[3:10:30] Trustee McConchie: So this was the intent, right, Dorothy?

[3:10:33] Voice 11: I kind of understand the intent, but let me throw out another suggestion to you.

[3:10:39] Voice 11: Driftwood Centre is C1 zoning, and when the original building was built,

[3:10:46] Voice 11: where Townsend books are, through to the liquor store,

[3:10:49] Voice 11: it was designed to have a second story put on it.

[3:10:53] Voice 11: And we've always thought that that would be an ideal situation

[3:10:58] Voice 11: to be able to build the buildings and put accommodation on top.

[3:11:03] Voice 6: um

[3:11:03] Voice 11: and that still is a possibility except that the zoning does not allow it we're allowed one

[3:11:10] Voice 11: caretaker suite which is ironic but the c1 allows one caretaker suite the c2 allows two

[3:11:17] Voice 11: peptides but if we don't um you know we certainly be interested in discussing accommodation

[3:11:29] Voice 10: i would like to sit down and have and i don't know what that looks

[3:11:33] Trustee McConchie: like i'm happy to just go

[3:11:34] Voice 10: go into the bakery and talk about it but like you know

[3:11:36] Trustee McConchie: like we have to discuss this in a public

[3:11:37] Trustee McConchie: setting like

[3:11:39] Voice 10: can we sit

[3:11:40] Trustee McConchie: down with dora can we meet with harold i guess essentially harold

[3:11:44] Trustee McConchie: management is the name of the corporation and the trust committee meet do we have to meet in

[3:11:48] Trustee McConchie: a public setting is the question i'm asking if

[3:11:51] Voice 9: it's just one trustee you can meet with

[3:11:58] Voice 10: yeah

[3:11:59] Trustee McConchie: so we need to have a public meeting

[3:12:01] Voice 10: okay so i disagree with that just clearly i completely

[3:12:04] Voice 10: Completely disagree with that. You and I are going to go and just like sit down and hear what Dorothy has to say.

[3:12:08] Voice 10: Like we sit down and hear what the AAPC has to say, what we hear, what others have to say.

[3:12:13] Voice 10: We don't have to make any decisions at that

[3:12:15] Voice 10: meeting. We don't have to say anything.

[3:12:16] Voice 10: Thank you very much.

[3:12:17] Trustee McConchie: Anytime works for you.

[3:12:18] Trustee McConchie: Transparent government.

[3:12:20] Voice 10: And we're not going to make any decisions there. Nobody freak out.

[3:12:25] Voice 10: As

[3:12:26] Trustee McConchie: a result of that meeting, we'll provide direction to staff.

[3:12:28] Voice 7: We'll come back and we'll talk about it together and then we'll

[3:12:31] Voice 7: provide direction to staff.

[3:12:32] Voice 7: So

[3:12:32] Trustee McConchie: I don't know how busy everyone is in the next couple of weeks, but assuming that early January when it's a stagnant life, we will

[3:12:39] Trustee McConchie: need that.

[3:12:41] Trustee McConchie: Yeah,

[3:12:41] Voice 6: that'd be great.

[3:12:44] Voice 10: Is that clear?

[3:12:45] Voice 6: Yes.

[3:12:46] Voice 6: Sorry,

[3:12:48] Voice 10: I just, I understand that there are rules about having quorum.

[3:12:51] Voice 10: So this is the dilemma we run into is that there's rules because two thirds of our trust committee can make decisions.

[3:12:56] Voice 10: So that's the issue that we're facing here.

[3:12:58] Voice 10: But it's just not appropriate for our community members to have to say the same thing twice.

[3:13:02] Voice 10: to us so I'm happy to just have one meeting hear what you have to

[3:13:06] Voice 10: say just understand that we won't

[3:13:07] Voice 10: be able to give you concrete yeah

[3:13:09] Voice 9: yeah and then a written letter afterwards would be great that'd

[3:13:12] Voice 10: be great yeah here's here's the plan that you propose and then we can take it into this meeting

[3:13:16] Voice 10: and talk about it perfect

[3:13:18] Voice 12: all right so yeah

[3:13:20] Trustee McConchie: the idea is to prevent people going on Facebook and

[3:13:23] Trustee McConchie: saying that the driftwood is turning into a casino and whatever make made up stuff so

[3:13:39] Voice 6: All right. So do

[3:13:41] Voice 12: we need any more direction on the community information meeting? Got

[3:13:45] Voice 12: that what you need for that?

[3:13:46] Voice 12: No,

[3:13:47] Voice 9: that's fine. There was just a few items I wanted to highlight in the LED map amendment.

[3:13:51] Voice 9: Yes. And these are also on the project website. They're available. The first one is the rezoning of the majority of area around North Pender to water free, not going to permit docks.

[3:14:17] Voice 9: right we're not ripping

[3:14:19] Voice 10: out your docks we're just not preventing new ones being built without an

[3:14:22] Voice 10: exception i

[3:14:22] Trustee McConchie: didn't realize on pv switch from yes

[3:14:28] Voice 9: okay

[3:14:30] Trustee McConchie: you're

[3:14:31] Voice 9: jumping out sorry sorry

[3:14:33] Trustee McConchie: unless

[3:14:34] Voice 9: you want to talk about now but so number two is a magic lake being a rezone from a rural

[3:14:40] Voice 9: residential to rural residential one which essentially nothing changes there except for

[3:14:45] Voice 9: the name of the zone. The rest of the Rural Residential 2 on page 3 will be re-zoned Rural

[3:14:55] Voice 9: Residential 2, which will permit agriculture to not reuse those zones.

[3:15:01] Voice 10: Okay, pause on that one. Between the Rural Residential 1 and Rural Residential 2, why

[3:15:06] Voice 10: did we end up cutting out that little piece that's just down on Magic Lake? Like on page

[3:15:15] Voice 10: There's a little piece that's on, what is it, Buccaneers?

[3:15:19] Voice 9: Oh, yes, you're right, that's incorrect.

[3:15:21] Voice 10: So if we can correct that.

[3:15:23] Voice 10: Yes, thank you.

[3:15:25] Voice 9: Perhaps that area isn't included in the Water District.

[3:15:27] Voice 9: I'll have to take a look.

[3:15:29] Voice 10: Could be.

[3:15:30] Voice 10: Even if it isn't included in the Water District,

[3:15:32] Voice 10: I would prefer it to be magically

[3:15:34] Voice 10: because it has the same issues

[3:15:36] Voice 10: in the transportation pathways as well.

[3:15:41] Voice 9: Page four, it's saying being rezoned

[3:15:45] Voice 9: to row residential 1a and the a is just um it does not permit secondary suites in the

[3:15:50] Voice 9: Trinkle Mountain Water District. Five it's a again more technical it's just rezoning

[3:15:59] Voice 9: row residential site specific to row residential two sites. Why that one piece?

[3:16:05] Voice 9: Um I believe there's a historical um density there that has been so there's a site

[3:16:12] Voice 9: site-specific permission for an additional dwelling unit, I believe.

[3:16:16] Voice 10: So we don't have, okay, so that's super interesting and understandable.

[3:16:20] Voice 10: But there is a house in Magic Lake like that.

[3:16:22] Voice 10: It has two occupancy, and it's not separated on the plan, just so you know.

[3:16:27] Voice 10: It was one of the ones that came up in AFTDR.

[3:16:29] Voice 10: Somehow they got double occupancy, like full, anyway.

[3:16:33] Voice 10: It was one of our SDRs.

[3:16:37] Voice 9: And number six, this involves one of the McKinnon Road properties.

[3:16:41] Voice 9: these it's actually just realigning the zone line with the property boundaries that's very technical

[3:16:47] Voice 9: number seven is the daily nature reserve oh yeah

[3:16:53] Voice 9: and number eight is the one that i really wanted to point out this

[3:17:00] Planner Testemale: is the old

[3:17:00] Voice 9: port washington store

[3:17:01] Voice 9: um so we've had some discussions um with a potential property owner um that would actually

[3:17:09] Voice 9: like to rezone it to rural residential to build a small house from the front so the intent would be

[3:17:16] Voice 9: not to have any type of commercial use there but to build a dwelling unit so there is a proposal

[3:17:23] Voice 9: to rezone that to rural residential too i'd

[3:17:27] Trustee McConchie: like to know in our official community plan it says

[3:17:29] Trustee McConchie: all efforts must be taken to preserve the poor washington general store which is no longer

[3:17:34] Trustee McConchie: functioning yeah

[3:17:36] Voice 6: so changing

[3:17:38] Trustee McConchie: the zoning to so essentially it's commercial no one wants to start

[3:17:43] Trustee McConchie: a business there so they want to try and build a house i

[3:17:46] Voice 7: worry about that i'm not sure about that

[3:17:48] Voice 7: one just who's

[3:17:49] Trustee McConchie: the property owner uh

[3:17:50] Voice 7: mr

[3:17:51] Voice 10: vassal

[3:17:53] Voice 18: okay so

[3:17:54] Voice 10: we can maybe if we could just i i would

[3:17:57] Voice 10: like to understand his reasoning a little bit more because from a community perspective having some

[3:18:02] Voice 10: kind of commercial potential there is actually the potential

[3:18:05] Voice 9: property owner did talk to staff

[3:18:07] Voice 9: with a record team by myself and we said let's not write a letter yet let's go i'll bring this

[3:18:12] Voice 9: to the ltc first and then see what um you would like to know and then so they'll be more than

[3:18:18] Voice 9: happy to sit down with you or read a letter yeah i'd like to understand his reasoning

[3:18:23] Voice 9: uh

[3:18:24] Voice 6: number

[3:18:27] Voice 9: nine is the bc ferries um it's just again it's

[3:18:32] Trustee McConchie: only rural residential

[3:18:33] Trustee McConchie: it is

[3:18:34] Trustee McConchie: so you can build a house on the ferry terminal that's right

[3:18:44] Voice 6: oh my god okay

[3:18:45] Voice 10: that's where the new dog park should be it's community service

[3:18:49] Voice 6: okay

[3:18:56] Voice 9: would be from community park one to community park two to permit some outdoor structures

[3:19:03] Voice 9: Oh, we

[3:19:04] Trustee McConchie: don't

[3:19:06] Voice 10: have to go through that whole thing to get those to

[3:19:08] Trustee McConchie: apply to zoning to build their first thing. Okay, so that would change that question.

[3:19:13] Voice 9: Page 11 would be to it's currently a TUP for the garden's drop off, it would actually be something that property to allow that use outright.

[3:19:23] Voice 10: I'm not

[3:19:24] Voice 9: gonna go for that

[3:19:24] Voice 10: necessarily. Not that I don't think that that's helpful. I just I there's new owners down there. I also want a conversation with them. I want to understand the bigger plan on that.

[3:19:34] Voice 10: So we'll take that off now.

[3:19:35] Trustee McConchie: This booklet is basically every single stress for a local government.

[3:19:39] Voice 10: Every little thing. So

[3:19:40] Trustee McConchie: they want they want to reach they want to establish zoning at the

[3:19:45] Trustee McConchie: Magic League market to finalize it rather than it be on a temporary. It

[3:19:49] Voice 9: was actually on the technical

[3:19:50] Voice 9: amendments list. This is the point that staff actually brought up. Yeah an idea so there has

[3:19:56] Voice 9: actually been a today the discussion with the operator. Yeah I'd like to just talk to different

[3:20:07] Voice 9: The second one is more technical in nature, as the name of the industrial zone is being

[3:20:14] Voice 9: renamed General Industrial, so that's still site-specific for post storage, nothing has

[3:20:19] Voice 9: changed.

[3:20:20] Voice 9: This is on page 12.

[3:20:22] Voice 7: Oh, that's the one down on the waterfront, that's the historic one.

[3:20:26] Voice 7: That's right.

[3:20:27] Voice 7: So that's in the wrong space.

[3:20:28] Voice 10: It's just the name of the zone.

[3:20:29] Voice 10: Is the map actually reflective of the current updates that were through?

[3:20:34] Voice 10: There was some I will double check. Yeah, I think that's not right. Yeah, I think there's some move there. There was some shift there and it was to do with the application inclusion exclusion. Maybe, maybe I'm thinking about the wrong thing. But if you can just verify that that's

[3:20:50] Voice 10: Well,

[3:20:50] Trustee McConchie: they just wanted to get the agricultural land commission off their backs. Yeah. So

[3:20:55] Trustee McConchie: that's why they applied

[3:20:56] Trustee McConchie: for the inclusion exclusion, which was approved. That might be the reflection of the change of the zoning

[3:21:01] Trustee McConchie: if I'm not

[3:21:02] Trustee McConchie: Yeah,

[3:21:02] Voice 7: so you can just check

[3:21:05] Voice 7: Lord knows we don't need to go through that one again at

[3:21:09] Voice 9: 13 again is more technical in nature

[3:21:14] Voice 9: because again it's just changing the name of the zones from the light industrial to general

[3:21:20] Voice 9: industrial yes so those are again pretty technical in nature and

[3:21:27] Voice 10: the uphill from the hardware store

[3:21:29] Voice 10: is one of those right is that the the

[3:21:32] Voice 9: one to the east yeah okay so that actually is in the ocp

[3:21:36] Voice 9: amendment it's being re-designated from indus rural to industrial but there is no rezoning so

[3:21:43] Voice 9: the property owner if they actually do want to propose an industrial use on that property they

[3:21:47] Voice 9: would have to go through a rezoning process okay yeah

[3:21:50] Trustee McConchie: you know the current status of what

[3:21:53] Trustee McConchie: bring the big diggums?

[3:21:55] Voice 10: I don't know. Yeah,

[3:21:57] Voice 10: I have a better idea. They're on

[3:21:59] Voice 10: a TUP right now,

[3:22:00] Voice 10: it's my understanding, like an active TUP for industrial zoning on their piece.

[3:22:05] Voice 6: Okay. And I

[3:22:06] Voice 10: did talk to him about that because I was curious if they had an intent to move down to the old

[3:22:13] Voice 10: golf excavating site or one of the existing industrial pieces as opposed to a gopher rezoning.

[3:22:17] Voice 10: So, he's still sort of working that out, because the site's not big enough for him right there, so he needs

[3:22:24] Voice 10: to work with the other landowners to try to do that.

[3:22:29] Voice 9: On page 14, so the property to the left there, which is the old batch plant, it's currently zoned Industrial 2B.

[3:22:39] Voice 9: This is

[3:22:40] Voice 9: where the LTC proposed to rezone it to a community service site-specific zone

[3:22:46] Voice 9: that would allow full-service waste transfer, composting, and community or local non-profit

[3:22:57] Voice 9: society-owned recycling and reuse facility, just those three uses specifically.

[3:23:01] Voice 9: And the property to the right, which is beside the recycling depot, that land would be rezoned

[3:23:09] Voice 9: to general industrials so they would be permitted to have all the uses in general industrial and

[3:23:15] Voice 9: they would also be permitted to have a full service waste transfer camera posting and also

[3:23:20] Voice 9: recycling abuse facility so

[3:23:23] Voice 10: okay can you just remind me under the general industrial is storage

[3:23:29] Voice 10: with ccams an option that's right excellent

[3:23:32] Trustee McConchie: wait so this is this land no this land would be able

[3:23:35] Trustee McConchie: to be a recycling allow for recycling well but the recycle depot is certainly not gonna

[3:23:42] Trustee McConchie: appreciate that vibe so this

[3:23:46] Trustee McConchie: property the jim allen's property right here yeah

[3:23:48] Voice 7: right

[3:23:50] Trustee McConchie: but what planet stockville is saying is it'll allow for recycling yeah

[3:23:55] Voice 10: so right beside the

[3:23:57] Trustee McConchie: recycle depot yeah

[3:23:58] Voice 10: that doesn't mean that everybody's going to jump over there it could

[3:24:01] Voice 10: mean that the recycle depot expands into it so what i would like to do is yeah exactly so and

[3:24:08] Voice 10: part of that is just putting it out there as an option and having them mix it in a like community

[3:24:14] Voice 10: sort of portray that this is a possibility if you don't like it so yeah that would be my thinking on

[3:24:22] Voice 10: that and then that allows them also the option as things go through if they do like it to work with

[3:24:27] Voice 10: landowner and bring it into their space if they want to.

[3:24:30] Voice 5: Okay, okay, excellent.

[3:24:33] Voice 9: And the last one,

[3:24:34] Voice 9: which we've already discussed, is a food center, potentially this moment for a rental.

[3:24:43] Voice 21: Thank you very much.

[3:24:45] Voice 12: I like maps. I like some places. I can't visualize all this.

[3:24:48] Voice 10: Thank

[3:24:48] Voice 12: you. All right, so is there anything else then on the February 15th? All right,

[3:24:57] Voice 10: you

[3:24:57] Trustee McConchie: got enough work thank you

[3:25:02] Voice 10: we really appreciate you being here on a saturday

[3:25:04] Voice 10: all right

[3:25:05] Voice 12: then so we'll move on so we have our work priority list here are we not touching those

[3:25:13] Voice 10: at the moment um sorry one one last thing are you good for the february 5th meeting do you need any

[3:25:18] Voice 10: other guidance from us on that one no i'm fine

[3:25:20] Voice 10: yeah good thank you um so you and i should both

[3:25:24] Voice 10: think about that before the pender post gets published for january and try and get something

[3:25:28] Voice 10: in on the pender post so any text you can provide us on the meeting before the 2018th would be

[3:25:34] Voice 10: really helpful actually

[3:25:35] Voice 9: that's one thing i did want to mention you did give directions to a full

[3:25:38] Voice 9: mail out which we are proposing that'd be great um so i will put together a draft there has already

[3:25:44] Voice 9: been a notice put place in the pender post yeah that'd be great um but i'll draft something with

[3:25:49] Voice 9: a little bit more information and send it to the lgc just to make sure okay before i

[3:25:52] Voice 9: email it out

[3:25:53] Voice 9: yeah

[3:25:53] Voice 10: that'd be great and then we can also flag a paragraph from whatever you've drafted just make

[3:25:58] Voice 10: sure we have the right links and dates and stuff like that into our our written submissions into

[3:26:02] Voice 10: kind of post so that it gets in there okay okay

[3:26:06] Voice 12: all right so going on here we've got the top

[3:26:10] Voice 12: priorities list here in the projects list is there any changes going along there no

[3:26:17] Trustee McConchie: this is fine i'm

[3:26:18] Trustee McConchie: happy to go i have no questions on the applications or on the projects okay

[3:26:22] Voice 10: um i had a question about

[3:26:25] Voice 10: about the STVR we are coming like where are we still I don't know why I'm we are still

[3:26:33] Voice 9: we're

[3:26:34] Voice 9: still waiting for the bylaw to be signed off by the minister oh

[3:26:39] Voice 10: that's what I'm waiting for

[3:26:40] Voice 10: phone

[3:26:40] Voice 9: calls and emails are not being returned at this point so it's been quite frustrating

[3:26:48] Voice 9: from island's trust staff um so we're still waiting I really really hope we can get it

[3:26:53] Voice 9: early January so I covered it to the January okay thank

[3:26:56] Voice 12: you tender just got theirs

[3:27:01] Voice 12: so we

[3:27:02] Voice 9: were sent at the same time so we were hoping that

[3:27:05] Voice 9: at the same time that's great thank you all

[3:27:09] Voice 12: right then so questions on applications

[3:27:17] Voice 12: Okay, um, uh, expense reports are here, your policies, standing resolutions which will have something to do with business. We'll talk more about. And then, um, so we have here the Islands Trust under 15.6.1. We have the Nighthawk Hill NAPTEC addition application briefing.

[3:27:40] Voice 12: Yeah, this was

[3:27:41] Trustee McConchie: part of it. Sorry,

[3:27:43] Voice 9: it's just for information for

[3:27:44] Trustee McConchie: information. It's Mary's

[3:27:46] Trustee McConchie: and Andy's expansion of their covenant. As

[3:27:50] Trustee McConchie: we discussed, I was

[3:27:51] Voice 10: very excited to be able

[3:27:52] Voice 10: to second that motion from the Conservancy director moved in and I got to second it just

[3:27:56] Voice 10: to get it into the Trust Council because that's the Trust Council motion. So thank you.

[3:28:03] Voice 12: I take it we'll just do in camera at the very end so that we chase people out and

[3:28:09] Voice 12: yes

[3:28:10] Voice 10: we have a brief conversation about that that other item before we go in camera though

[3:28:15] Voice 10: just to kind of think through what we might want to suggest around that what

[3:28:18] Trustee McConchie: I did in business

[3:28:20] Voice 9: so I'm sure in fact a warren is waiting to be let in so I'm not sure you want to let him

[3:28:25] Voice 9: have to join the contact even then

[3:28:27] Voice 9: he's back but

[3:28:28] Voice 12: i don't let people oh i do let me see okay gotcha

[3:28:37] Voice 12: all right he's in um hello warren okay so we have we're now in our new business and um

[3:28:44] Voice 12: over to you trustee a copy so we're in a public meeting

[3:28:49] Voice 12: yeah you're outdoors looking like you're enjoying your day somewhere and we're annoying you

[3:28:55] Trustee McConchie: i hope we could never annoy warren dingman i don't think that's

[3:28:59] Trustee McConchie: possible all right so uh i

[3:29:02] Trustee McConchie: just wanted to discuss this um motion which was uh discussed in our town hall earlier uh that we

[3:29:11] Trustee McConchie: i'll just i'm just trying to find the word here sorry one second here the wording we are still

[3:29:16] Voice 12: in the public meeting warren yeah

[3:29:18] Trustee McConchie: okay no problem for one second i just

[3:29:22] Voice 7: want to get

[3:29:22] Voice 7: please shannon you get the email that i sent okay so the

[3:29:26] Trustee McConchie: motion that we made uh last uh october 20

[3:29:31] Trustee McConchie: i can't remember the exact date 27th or something uh that it was a discussion was held regarding the

[3:29:37] Trustee McConchie: use of trailers as temporary housing challenges following points were discussed the salt spring

[3:29:42] Trustee McConchie: bylaw proposal risks of allowing trailer and other temporary housing options for the development plan

[3:29:47] Trustee McConchie: for this ltc and we moved that the north kent around local trust committee create a moratorium

[3:29:50] Trustee McConchie: on bylaw enforcement related to housing so i wanted to know um and also and that

[3:29:57] Trustee McConchie: the bylaw enforcement manager create a report about the

[3:30:00] Trustee McConchie: of the problem so we're just wondering um warren uh we were going to get that report in january

[3:30:07] Trustee McConchie: correct january

[3:30:09] Trustee McConchie: 27th okay in the meantime uh what i'm curious to know is what implications

[3:30:15] Trustee McConchie: does this motion have for people living uh in trailers for pender island so

[3:30:22] Voice 2: at this time uh

[3:30:23] Voice 2: there there there's no enforcement as in we're telling people they can't use their travel

[3:30:30] Voice 2: trailers you had a gentleman earlier speak to a specific file the deadline that was given for that

[3:30:37] Voice 2: file was before um this moratorium was uh drafted by the ltc

[3:30:43] Voice 10: okay okay so

[3:30:47] Voice 10: so is that the only one

[3:30:48] Voice 10: that was before this moratorium i

[3:30:53] Voice 2: believe yes that was the only that's the latest file where

[3:30:55] Voice 2: a letter would have gone out giving someone a deadline i don't believe it

[3:31:00] Voice 2: affects any other

[3:31:00] Voice 2: their properties right now

[3:31:01] Voice 10: without

[3:31:03] Voice 2: have been given any recent deadlines okay that's super

[3:31:06] Voice 10: helpful lauren thank you i'm

[3:31:09] Trustee McConchie: wondering lauren if you can just say state um the uh i know you're a

[3:31:16] Planner Testemale: full

[3:31:16] Trustee McConchie: reporter uh but is there

[3:31:19] Trustee McConchie: anything that the trust committee anything the trust committee in

[3:31:23] Trustee McConchie: your opinion should be concerned about uh with as a result of this promotion uh

[3:31:29] Voice 2: no because there's a

[3:31:30] Voice 2: minimum number of files that it affects it's not a very pressing issue on north pender at all

[3:31:37] Voice 2: you don't have a lot of concern about people living in travel trailers there's only a couple

[3:31:43] Voice 2: of files where that's occurred on north pender itself and those issues have been around disposal

[3:31:49] Voice 2: of waste and garbage and they're actually a couple of years old so there's been no new concerns other

[3:31:57] Voice 2: than this uh property on pirates road okay

[3:32:01] Voice 10: so

[3:32:02] Trustee McConchie: so you mean you haven't received any uh complaint

[3:32:05] Trustee McConchie: bylaw complaints right but but do you have will you have an understanding in your report about

[3:32:13] Trustee McConchie: how many folks are living in trailers is that something that the islands trust is capable of

[3:32:18] Trustee McConchie: assessing or understanding uh

[3:32:21] Voice 2: i won't be able to give you an exact number on that um at all actually

[3:32:27] Voice 2: that the complaints around travel trailers are actually very infrequent and usually very specific

[3:32:33] Voice 2: and we only have a couple of files open regarding them

[3:32:38] Voice 5: and

[3:32:39] Voice 2: so it's just it's not a major concern for those folks on pender island so there could be

[3:32:45] Voice 2: dozens of properties that have travel trailers on them that are being used as residences

[3:32:49] Voice 2: but there's just been no complaints about them uh from the general public so

[3:32:56] Trustee McConchie: the general question

[3:32:57] Trustee McConchie: I'm not sure if you can answer this or not, Warren.

[3:32:59] Trustee McConchie: Are you aware of any government agency studying

[3:33:03] Trustee McConchie: or having a general understanding of how many folks

[3:33:06] Trustee McConchie: are living in this type of temporary housing

[3:33:08] Voice 2: on North Bend?

[3:33:11] Voice 2: I'm not personally, no.

[3:33:13] Voice 2: I don't know if anyone's had a formal study

[3:33:15] Voice 2: and has hard numbers about how many people are living

[3:33:18] Voice 2: in travel trailers or accessory buildings

[3:33:20] Voice 2: on the Gulf Islands.

[3:33:22] Trustee McConchie: So right now there's no real official information

[3:33:25] Trustee McConchie: information indicating that no one's made any effort to really understand and there's currently

[3:33:30] Trustee McConchie: no agency analyzing or discussing this right now crd

[3:33:36] Voice 2: there may be a housing group that's

[3:33:40] Voice 2: collecting information but i'm not familiar with any of the reports okay thank you warren you're

[3:33:48] Voice 2: welcome all

[3:33:50] Voice 7: right so

[3:33:51] Voice 10: given that information we don't actually need to do a broad we already have

[3:33:57] Voice 10: a moratorium motion all we need to do is close this file and we're done so if we

[3:34:05] Voice 10: close this file given what we've heard here today and what we're understanding

[3:34:09] Voice 10: about this site we can just close the file and then well we'd have a

[3:34:13] Voice 10: discussion in camera

[3:34:14] Voice 7: yes I'm

[3:34:15] Voice 10: just talking more generally about the process

[3:34:17] Voice 10: here so if we decide to do that we can do that we can have that conversation

[3:34:21] Voice 10: and then then we wouldn't have to worry until we figure out and pushed on the CRD more deeply and

[3:34:28] Voice 10: others about the broader housing concerns that we're trying to work through okay

[3:34:34] Trustee McConchie: it is interesting

[3:34:35] Trustee McConchie: hearing Warren's comments that there is not a great concern from North Kender Islanders about

[3:34:43] Trustee McConchie: folks that are living in temporary situations right now they're

[3:34:47] Voice 10: not they're

[3:34:48] Trustee McConchie: not they're not

[3:34:48] Trustee McConchie: writing the bylaw enforcement that's

[3:34:50] Voice 10: right so there's quite a lot of people that we know are

[3:34:52] Voice 10: doing that

[3:34:53] Trustee McConchie: anecdotally that

[3:34:54] Voice 10: we know are are doing having that situation in the community it just

[3:34:58] Voice 10: means that our community is very tolerant of it so and probably because they understand that

[3:35:03] Voice 10: there's a housing crisis and we're trying to figure out solutions for that so okay okay yeah

[3:35:08] Trustee McConchie: so i mean i'm

[3:35:09] Voice 10: satisfied with that discussion on this

[3:35:11] Voice 10: i'm good with that thank

[3:35:13] Voice 10: you warren for

[3:35:15] Voice 10: I would like

[3:35:17] Trustee McConchie: to make a, the only thing is, is Chair Patrick, is there not a town hall

[3:35:20] Trustee McConchie: at the end of our, before we close the meeting to the public?

[3:35:24] Voice 12: So do you want to have a, I'm

[3:35:27] Trustee McConchie: wondering if we should maybe explain.

[3:35:30] Voice 12: So you want to have a town hall, then we can kind of go into our enclosed meeting and then

[3:35:36] Voice 12: we can report out at our next rise and

[3:35:37] Voice 12: report.

[3:35:40] Voice 12: That's okay.

[3:35:41] Voice 12: So I hope people understand that.

[3:35:43] Voice 12: we're just trying to be not send you out into the cold air and wait while we have a meeting

[3:35:49] Voice 12: that asks you to come back in and so we typically have a town hall at the end of our meeting we do

[3:35:53] Voice 12: not rework decisions that we made today so that we don't make very many except for the applications

[3:35:58] Voice 12: um uh so uh if there's anything that you'd like to address us uh now is there anyone that'd like

[3:36:05] Voice 12: to talk to us or add diane yes

[3:36:08] Voice 6: on her hand

[3:36:09] Voice 6: up sorry yeah

[3:36:10] Voice 8: i missed the uh first time

[3:36:12] Voice 8: because i just want to comment on then who goes the question going back to the maximum floor area

[3:36:20] Voice 8: what problem are we trying to solve i didn't hear that question get answered i heard people's intent

[3:36:27] Voice 8: and their goals i didn't hear what problem they were trying to solve not only that i heard that

[3:36:33] Voice 8: he was told that it was the wrong question to be posed and that the actual question to be posed is

[3:36:42] Voice 8: what does the community feel how the house person should have so i don't think that is at all the

[3:36:51] Voice 8: question that needs to be posed so i think ben's question was the correct one what problems kind

[3:36:58] Voice 8: and I didn't hear that. So as you consider taking it out to the community, I'd be more

[3:37:06] Voice 8: clear on that. The other thing I'd like to not hear in that discussion is comments like

[3:37:14] Voice 8: who we're trying to invite to the island, which I have heard Trustee Wright say before.

[3:37:20] Voice 8: for so i'd like to keep it away from what people feel a person is allowed to have how big a house

[3:37:29] Voice 8: should someone have who's allowed to have

[3:37:33] Voice 8: a house all of that i'd like it to steer away

[3:37:37] Voice 8: commentary

[3:37:38] Trustee McConchie: so you support healthy community dialogue i i think that's something that we

[3:37:42] Trustee McConchie: look forward to continuing to answer thank

[3:37:44] Voice 8: you what is the problem it's trying to be solved

[3:38:02] Voice 10: So I will just quickly respond to that. So I do feel like I did answer that question,

[3:38:07] Voice 10: but possibly not clear enough. So for me, one of the biggest issues that we're currently having

[3:38:12] Voice 10: that thinking about how size solves is our contiguous forest. We have maps

[3:38:16] Voice 10: showing the impact of contiguous forest on when you're building a house and then

[3:38:20] Voice 10: you're clearing for fire smart related things and it's a complicated problem

[3:38:24] Voice 10: it's not just about house size it's also about educating people about fire smart

[3:38:27] Voice 10: but it's also about wind storms and house strikes people are getting nervous

[3:38:31] Voice 10: about their house getting hit.

[3:38:32] Voice 10: The maximum clear area might not solve that problem.

[3:38:36] Voice 10: maximum house size right yeah so

[3:38:39] Planner Testemale: it's a combination

[3:38:40] Voice 10: of like what pieces we can use to

[3:38:43] Voice 10: try and get at that issue yeah totally that's the issue from my perspective of one that we know

[3:38:48] Voice 10: 100 that's happening right now right

[3:38:50] Voice 8: but i mean the last data that was presented to us was i think

[3:38:56] Voice 8: there was one permit that was asking for a house about 3 000 square feet so like i think it was

[3:39:04] Voice 8: stated that there's not a lot of um applicants for 20 000 square foot um i also think that by

[3:39:13] Voice 8: not having a 20 000 square foot home on a 10 acre property it's not going to be that

[3:39:18] Voice 8: affecting anyone it's it it could be affecting the real character but nobody sees it

[3:39:27] Voice 8: um yeah yes

[3:39:28] Trustee McConchie: diane have you written the trust committee i don't remember recently no so i

[3:39:33] Trustee McConchie: think it's actually really important that you put your

[3:39:35] Trustee McConchie: comments into public records so we can

[3:39:37] Trustee McConchie: appropriately address them i think it's a really good points that you were raising about the intent

[3:39:41] Trustee McConchie: and how we do communicate with the community what's going on and address your concerns okay yeah

[3:39:45] Voice 12: thank you anyone else want to talk to us

[3:39:51] Voice 12: i'd

[3:39:52] Trustee McConchie: like to make a motion that the north uh it's the thing i have to read oh

[3:39:56] Voice 9: i have i just sent it

[3:39:57] Voice 9: Laura. Oh,

[3:39:57] Trustee McConchie: did you send it? Just an

[3:39:59] Voice 12: email. Okay, good. I had one piece together here from

[3:40:05] Trustee McConchie: I'm happy

[3:40:06] Voice 12: to read it. I move that the meeting be closed to the public in accordance with

[3:40:10] Voice 12: community charter section 91. Oh, you got it all in here for the purpose of considering

[3:40:20] Voice 12: during a bylaw enforcement file

[3:40:22] Voice 12: and that the staff be invited to remain.

[3:40:29] Voice 12: I have to go to washroom all the time.

[3:40:32] Voice 15: All those in favor?

[3:40:33] Voice 12: All right, so thank you, people.

[3:40:37] Voice 12: Thank you for coming and,

[3:40:42] Voice 12: it's cold in here.

[3:40:44] Voice 12: We're

[3:40:44] Voice 6: just taking a two

[3:40:45] Voice 12: second stand and shake here.

[3:40:49] Voice 12: I think I need to close off this live stream.