North Pender Island Local Trust Committee community information meeting, February 5, 2022

[0:00:01] Voice 14: good morning if you're just joining us we'll kick off this meeting in just a moment

[0:00:28] Voice 14: oh yes good

[0:00:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): morning if you're just joining us we'll just start the meeting in a moment just

[0:00:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): letting people get into the webinar it looks like it's all the numbers have stopped coming up all

[0:00:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): right so trustees should we kick this off that's great well good morning everyone i'd like to

[0:00:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): call this special meeting of the north pender island local trust committee to order

[0:00:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): I begin with acknowledging how fortunate we are to be able to gather in the traditional and unceded territories of the Coast Salish people

[0:01:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): and all across those territories this morning as we come to you electronically.

[0:01:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): This meeting is being recorded and live streamed.

[0:01:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): I'm Laura Patrick. I'm elected on Salt Spring Island, and I'm the chair of this local trust committee.

[0:01:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): I'm joined today by Trustee Deb Morrison. Good morning, Deb.

[0:01:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): And Trustee Ben McConkie. Good morning, Ben.

[0:01:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): I know the trustees from the South Pender are joining us here as attendees and will join us later in the meeting on the panel.

[0:01:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): So we together we make up your North Pender local trust committee. This is a community information meeting on the topic of the land use bylaw review project, and we'll be giving you some more information on that in just a few moments.

[0:01:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): when we have questions later in the meeting i'd ask that you you know remain on on the

[0:01:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): topics that we're talking about because that's the purpose of the meeting today

[0:01:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): we are at an early phase still in this project and we always want to hear from you

[0:02:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): you know you can direct your emails to the trustees and to south info at islandstrust.bc.ca

[0:02:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): This is an electronic meeting. We may have technical difficulty as we go through the meeting, and we'll work our best to overcome those when we do.

[0:02:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): There will be opportunities for you to ask questions, and I'll go over how you can do that later in the meeting.

[0:02:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): We have a number of staff that are joining us today. We have Robert Kojima, our Regional Planning Manager. Good morning, Robert.

[0:02:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): Robert. We have Kim Stockville, Planner. Good morning, Kim. We have Robin Elchek, who's working

[0:02:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): behind the scenes to make this meeting work technically smooth. Thank you, Robin. And we

[0:02:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): have Shannon Brayford, our minute taker. Despite the fact that some of our staff may be coming from

[0:02:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): their own homes this morning, they have the right to a safe and respectful workplace.

[0:02:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): We have a very minimal agenda before us, trustees. Are there any additions or changes to the agenda?

[0:03:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): I'm not seeing any, I'm sorry.

[0:03:09] Trustee McConchie (probable): I just, maybe, oh, there's my internet.

[0:03:13] Trustee McConchie (probable): I'm just, maybe we can explain to folks what the,

[0:03:15] Trustee McConchie (probable): cause the agenda is so minimal.

[0:03:17] Trustee McConchie (probable): What are the expectation is from the meeting?

[0:03:19] Trustee McConchie (probable): Cause I believe funder Stockdale

[0:03:20] Trustee McConchie (probable): has a PowerPoint presentation she'd like to give.

[0:03:23] Trustee McConchie (probable): We also have the South Pender trustees

[0:03:25] Trustee McConchie (probable): who would also like to participate in the discussion

[0:03:28] Trustee McConchie (probable): of the maximum house size on South Pender and North Pender.

[0:03:32] Trustee McConchie (probable): So I'm just wondering, you know, from Trustee Morrison,

[0:03:35] Trustee McConchie (probable): and chair patrick with how you want to organize that yeah

[0:03:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): okay my understanding was uh we'll have

[0:03:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): uh turn the floor kim will give a presentation on overall the the project of where where we are

[0:03:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): and um then um well i'll give you an opportunity to speak now there are different segments we've

[0:03:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): done this in the past we can either deal with one issue at a time um on the community on like

[0:04:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): like maybe go through the material as a whole

[0:04:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): and then have the community information open session

[0:04:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): be kind of topic by topic basis,

[0:04:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): if that works with the kind of a panel to listen in.

[0:04:14] Trustee McConchie (probable): Well, yeah, that's a good suggestion.

[0:04:16] Trustee McConchie (probable): I also thought we could have the presentation

[0:04:18] Trustee McConchie (probable): from Planner Stockdale,

[0:04:19] Trustee McConchie (probable): then we could have our discussion right away

[0:04:22] Trustee McConchie (probable): with the from and move this trustees

[0:04:24] Trustee McConchie (probable): just for the brevity of time.

[0:04:26] Trustee McConchie (probable): A lot of the issues that we're going to cover

[0:04:27] Trustee McConchie (probable): aren't going to get caught, brought up on self-pendered.

[0:04:31] Trustee McConchie (probable): they've already dealt with some of those issues so i'm i'm actually wondering and then also uh

[0:04:35] Trustee McConchie (probable): chair patrick if we go issue by issue and then take questions or comments from i'm not sure

[0:04:41] Trustee McConchie (probable): that's that might lead to a very long meeting should we just um have a discussion amongst

[0:04:45] Trustee McConchie (probable): trustees and then hear from folks uh see what they're yes

[0:04:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): that's what i was thinking

[0:04:49] Trustee McConchie (probable): yes okay

[0:04:51] Trustee McConchie (probable): just for clarity thanks for explaining um

[0:04:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): trustee morrison yeah

[0:04:55] Trustee Morrison (probable): and then i think i would really like

[0:04:56] Trustee Morrison (probable): to hear people's responses after we have a conversation with the self-pendered trustees

[0:05:01] Trustee Morrison (probable): and among us. And then maybe if we could take like with public, if we could take three or four

[0:05:06] Trustee Morrison (probable): comments and then have some responses or thoughts instead of responding to each would be really

[0:05:11] Trustee Morrison (probable): beneficial, I think. Because I do want to hear multiple people, but I know sometimes people

[0:05:16] Trustee Morrison (probable): want responses in a reasonably timely manner. So we'll just take notes in between. And then if we

[0:05:20] Trustee Morrison (probable): have things to say, we can say after.

[0:05:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): No, that's great. We want this meeting to be useful and for

[0:05:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): people to get maximum information and i think we'll be an adaptive uh on our side to make sure

[0:05:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): that it works for everybody involved so thank you so much uh and with that i believe uh we can turn

[0:05:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): the floor over then to well i guess we've approved the agenda through general consent um and we'll

[0:05:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): turn the floor over to uh planner stockville thank

[0:05:46] Voice 7: you chair patrick i'm going to load up the

[0:05:50] Voice 7: powerpoint are you able to see the powerpoint on your screen fully great okay uh so today i

[0:06:09] Voice 7: wanted to dis um discuss some of the what i call hot topics of the land use bylaw review

[0:06:16] Voice 7: project these are mainly um the items that we've received staff and ltc a lot of correspondence on

[0:06:23] Voice 7: um so i'm just highlighting a few of the topics not all the topics so i do encourage everybody

[0:06:30] Voice 7: everybody to go to the North Pender LTC projects website which I'll show at the very end of the

[0:06:38] Voice 7: slide how to get there because there's a lot of useful information staff reports the the draft

[0:06:43] Voice 7: edits of the bylaw as well as discussion papers so to bring everybody up to speed the object of

[0:06:50] Voice 7: the project was to make various amendments the land use bylaw to implement policies in the

[0:06:57] Voice 7: the official community plan. And there's a number of topic areas, residential floor area, tourist

[0:07:04] Voice 7: commercial, and that's also known as C2, marine shoreline regulations, agricultural regulations,

[0:07:12] Voice 7: industrial regulations, and some minor and technical amendments to land use bylaw.

[0:07:19] Voice 7: The project status to date, we did complete early engagement with First Nations. There's also been

[0:07:26] Voice 7: been five community information meetings and these were all held virtual. We were hoping today's

[0:07:31] Voice 7: session would be in person but due to the concerns with Omicron and we had to meet online. There was

[0:07:39] Voice 7: also a special agricultural APC that provided comments on the potential agricultural amendments

[0:07:46] Voice 7: to the egg zone and other amendments throughout the bylaw and there has also been a draft version

[0:07:52] Voice 7: of the land use bylaw which is very much still in draft form and most likely there will be some

[0:07:58] Voice 7: tweaks made by the LTC in the coming months as well as a accompanying official community bylaw.

[0:08:04] Voice 7: There's also another CIM on Saturday March 12th. This will be addressing the exact same topics that

[0:08:11] Voice 7: we're talking today and that will lead to the the finalized draft of the land use bylaw.

[0:08:16] Voice 7: The first topic I wanted to mention was splitting the current rural residential zone into two zones.

[0:08:26] Voice 7: So all properties within the Magic Lake and Trincomalee areas will be rezoned to rural residential 1.

[0:08:34] Voice 7: The Trincomalee areas will be a site-specific rural residential 1A because there is a site-specific regulation stating that no secondary suites are permitted in that area.

[0:08:46] Voice 7: and that is a current regulation in the Land Use By-law.

[0:08:50] Voice 7: The only actual proposed amendments

[0:08:53] Voice 7: to this Rural Residential 1 zone

[0:08:55] Voice 7: is there is a proposal for a maximum floor area

[0:08:58] Voice 7: for dwelling units.

[0:08:59] Voice 7: All other amendments are just technical in nature.

[0:09:03] Voice 7: All other properties that are currently zoned

[0:09:05] Voice 7: Rural Residential will be then rezoned

[0:09:08] Voice 7: to Rural Residential 2.

[0:09:10] Voice 7: And again, the two proposed amendments

[0:09:13] Voice 7: for the Rural Residential 2 zone

[0:09:15] Voice 7: is establishing a maximum floor area for dwelling units

[0:09:18] Voice 7: and also adding agriculture as a primary permitted use.

[0:09:23] Voice 7: There is no change to density

[0:09:25] Voice 7: for these rural residential zones.

[0:09:27] Voice 7: So the density remains the same.

[0:09:31] Voice 7: The picture you can see on the far left,

[0:09:33] Voice 7: that's Magic Lake Estates.

[0:09:35] Voice 7: It's just showing that it will be re-zoned

[0:09:37] Voice 7: from rural residential to rural residential one.

[0:09:39] Voice 7: There is a small area that needs to be included

[0:09:43] Voice 7: on Buccaneers Road and I believe Schooner Way

[0:09:45] Voice 7: that isn't included and that will be included. You can see in Trincomalee in the middle picture

[0:09:50] Voice 7: it'll be rezoned to Rural Residential 1A and then all other areas will be rezoned to Rural

[0:09:56] Voice 7: Residential 2. One of the major topics is maximum floor area and the LTC is considering establishing

[0:10:06] Voice 7: a maximum floor area regulation for the Rural Residential 1 to Rural Zone, Rural Comprehensive

[0:10:14] Voice 7: one, rural comprehensive two, and the agriculture zone. And as you can see on your screen, these are

[0:10:20] Voice 7: the proposed maximum floor area numbers for a dwelling unit. The LTC is also adding a clause

[0:10:32] Voice 7: to this that basically states if you have a current dwelling unit constructed prior to the

[0:10:39] Voice 7: adoption of this proposed bylaw you're able to replace it or reconstruct it as long as you're not

[0:10:46] Voice 7: exceeding the floor area of the dwelling unit of uh sorry the floor area of the dwelling on the lot

[0:10:52] Voice 7: at the time of the adoption of the bylaw so this is um in hopes to address some of the concerns

[0:10:59] Voice 7: we've heard about having your dwelling unit grandfathered which is another term for legal

[0:11:04] Voice 7: non-conforming we've also received comments that property owners want to build an accessory

[0:11:12] Voice 7: building or structure on their land before having a dwelling unit or cottage currently the land use

[0:11:19] Voice 7: bylaw only permits an accessory building if you plan on using that accessory building as a temporary

[0:11:25] Voice 7: dwelling and there's some other regulations that you have to meet around that so there is a proposed

[0:11:29] Voice 7: amendment the LTC is considering allowing one outbuilding but it would have a maximum floor

[0:11:35] Voice 7: area of 10 square meters and there's some other regulations that you would have to meet as well

[0:11:39] Voice 7: but this would allow property owners to have a small accessory structure on the property before

[0:11:45] Voice 7: you build your dwelling unit. Some of the correspondence we received in last year has

[0:11:52] Voice 7: certainly been around helicopters. The LTC passed a resolution to add a prohibition on helicopters

[0:12:00] Voice 7: as a part of this project and review.

[0:12:02] Voice 7: So the LTC is proposing to add a regulation

[0:12:06] Voice 7: under the prohibited uses

[0:12:08] Voice 7: that would prohibit helicopters and helipads

[0:12:11] Voice 7: other than for emergency evacuation use in every zone.

[0:12:16] Voice 7: Again, aeronautics is a federal jurisdiction

[0:12:18] Voice 7: and therefore that regulation may not be enforceable,

[0:12:24] Voice 7: but the LTC is proposing to add it in.

[0:12:27] Voice 7: Another item is around the McKinnon Road properties. These are four properties that are zoned commercial to, which as I mentioned is tourist accommodation zoning. The full build out of those four properties on McKinnon Road is 55 commercial guest accommodation units.

[0:12:47] Voice 7: To date, I would say there was an approximate build out of only 25% of those 55, give or take. One of the four property owners agrees to reducing their permitted density from nine commercial guest accommodation units down to three.

[0:13:04] Voice 7: The other two property owners that own three of the properties are in discussion with the LTC with the potential of registering a Section 219 covenant, and that would restrict any new development beyond what's currently on the property, and any new development would require a

[0:13:25] Voice 7: groundwater management plan completed by a professional engineer to confirm that there is

[0:13:31] Voice 7: sufficient quality and quantity of groundwater. And it would also potentially add some measures

[0:13:38] Voice 7: that the property owners may need to abide by before they can get those additional densities.

[0:13:45] Voice 7: We have received letters about docks. So currently the area surrounding North Pembroke is zoned

[0:13:54] Voice 7: Water 1. And Water 1 permits the use of private docks for upland residential use. So what the LTC

[0:14:02] Voice 7: is proposing is that all those areas that are currently zoned Water 1 that have a private dock

[0:14:11] Voice 7: would retain that zoning. So those property owners with a current dock or with a dock right now

[0:14:17] Voice 7: we retain that water one zoning. All other areas without docks would be re-zoned to water three,

[0:14:25] Voice 7: and that water three zone does not permit private docks. So that's what you see in this picture

[0:14:33] Voice 7: here. Currently, the majority of the area around North Pender is zoned water one, and that will be

[0:14:39] Voice 7: re-zoned to water three. And then the picture you see next to it that almost looks like little teeth

[0:14:45] Voice 7: coming off the island, those are all areas that are retaining that water one zone where private

[0:14:52] Voice 7: docks exist. So if you are a property owner that has a dock, you can feel free to email staff just

[0:15:01] Voice 7: to confirm that we have you marked as having as retaining your water one zoning. So those are just

[0:15:10] Voice 7: a number or highlights of some of the comments uh that we've received to date there are certainly

[0:15:16] Voice 7: a lot of other amendments as a part of this land use bylaw review and again i encourage you to go

[0:15:21] Voice 7: to the website to read over them uh the next steps our staff is going to present another

[0:15:27] Voice 7: uh staff report at the february 24th virtual ltc meeting again we're having another community

[0:15:34] Voice 7: information meeting online on March 12. In the spring, we're hoping that the LTC will finalize the draft land use bylaw. And also there's a potential for first reading at that time.

[0:15:46] Voice 7: And then the potential timeline is for late spring, early summer or sometime over the summer is that we would set after the bylaws are given first reading, it'd be sent out for formal referral, and at that time, a formal CIM and public hearing.

[0:16:01] Voice 7: as i mentioned this is i just wanted to show where you can find this information on the ltc

[0:16:08] Voice 7: webpage the very top if you click under island planning there's a drop down menu you go to north

[0:16:13] Voice 7: pender and then under that turquoise strip you see the icon projects if you click on that it'll bring

[0:16:20] Voice 7: you to the land use bylaw review and you actually have to click on each individual folder for it to

[0:16:26] Voice 7: pop down with further information so this is where you can find the staff reports and also the draft

[0:16:30] Voice 7: bylaw so at this time i'm going to turn it back to chair patrick and the ltc thank you so much

[0:16:37] Voice 7: thank

[0:16:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): you kim for that overview i'd like to turn to the trustees to add

[0:16:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): any information or comments they'd like to make who'd like to go first

[0:16:52] Trustee McConchie (probable): my comment like what are you looking for here chair patrick i thought maybe we'd bring the

[0:16:57] Trustee McConchie (probable): south pender trustees into the discussion you

[0:16:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): can or i didn't know if you wanted to add any

[0:17:01] Trustee Patrick (probable): statements at this time for clarity or no

[0:17:04] Trustee McConchie (probable): oh i see i got you um no i appreciate the presentation by

[0:17:07] Trustee McConchie (probable): from planner stockville looking forward to hearing from other people about all these issues it's a

[0:17:10] Trustee McConchie (probable): lot i just i did want to mention that my my number one reason for uh promote uh promoting this land

[0:17:19] Trustee McConchie (probable): use bylaw review was that because we are going to face uh climate change effects in the coming

[0:17:24] Trustee McConchie (probable): coming decades on the on this island. And each one of these slides that you went through planner

[0:17:31] Trustee McConchie (probable): Stockdale, I believe, address that concern. So folks listening on at this meeting, my intent with

[0:17:39] Trustee McConchie (probable): addressing these bylaw reviews, or these bylaws in this review, is to just assume that these islands

[0:17:46] Trustee McConchie (probable): are going to change in the coming future and to plan accordingly with land management. So I'm

[0:17:53] Trustee McConchie (probable): folks in the community about what they think about these proposals

[0:17:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): all right anything you want to add this time first morrison um

[0:18:04] Trustee Morrison (probable): i think we've we've talked a

[0:18:06] Trustee Morrison (probable): lot i do encourage folks to uh look back at the videos of the trust meetings over the last year

[0:18:11] Trustee Morrison (probable): or two because we've been talking a lot about that and i think one correction i would make

[0:18:15] Trustee Morrison (probable): um is that we are not in the early stages of of this land use sort of review and thinking we've

[0:18:22] Trustee Morrison (probable): We've been at it for a year and a half, I want to say, and maybe more, Kim, you can

[0:18:28] Trustee Morrison (probable): clarify.

[0:18:28] Trustee Morrison (probable): But we are getting to the point where things are on paper and people need to make sure

[0:18:33] Trustee Morrison (probable): they're giving us feedback because we're going to start to encode things in ways that

[0:18:38] Trustee Morrison (probable): are going to become a reality.

[0:18:39] Trustee Morrison (probable): I do want to address one thing from the last local trust committee.

[0:18:45] Trustee Morrison (probable): committee, there was a question about the mandate to be engaged in trust policy, or sorry, gosh,

[0:18:53] Trustee Morrison (probable): can you tell I have like two different major projects on my head, to be engaged in a North

[0:18:58] Trustee Morrison (probable): Pender land use bylaw review. And I just find it really interesting that that's being questioned,

[0:19:06] Trustee Morrison (probable): given that climate change was in our OCP, is in our OCP and addressing it. So that is the mandate

[0:19:12] Trustee Morrison (probable): that we have is to implement it in the bylaws and um so i don't need to be elected as a person

[0:19:21] Trustee Morrison (probable): to affirm to know that that's the community's will um so the question about how we actually

[0:19:26] Trustee Morrison (probable): do that is what the conversation we're having right now not that if we do it thanks all right

[0:19:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): thank you i see we have trustee uh thorn has joined us we uh we're gonna have trustee right

[0:19:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): Wright join us as well?

[0:19:45] Voice 14: Working on it.

[0:19:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): He's still an attendee, Robin, if we can move Trustee Wright

[0:19:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): over as a panelist. Yeah, we're working on it. Okay, thank you. That's what everybody's working

[0:20:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): on in the background. So with that, trustees, are you ready to open up the floor? I think what's

[0:20:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): What's important right now, and I think, thank you, Trustee Morrison, for pointing it out,

[0:20:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): as this is beginning to, you know, it is a project that's been going on for a long time,

[0:20:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): and now it's showing up in what's the draft bylaw, and that's the language.

[0:20:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): This is your chance to ask, you know, questions of clarification, comments, and as I like

[0:20:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): Trustee Morrison always says, give us specific suggestions if you have something you want

[0:20:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): to see changed, say what that is and describe that.

[0:20:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): That's very helpful to us.

[0:20:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): We may group some of the comments as you speak, as we said, just to make it and work sort of through this in batches, if that makes sense.

[0:20:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I guess we'll just open the floor at this time.

[0:20:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): So this is your chance to talk to us.

[0:20:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): We do ask that you direct your comments to us, the local trustees, and speak about the issues, not individuals.

[0:21:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): individuals and um as i know uh islanders are um very respectful of each other uh please be clear

[0:21:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): and concise i'm not going to run a timer but if you're if you are um just repeating yourself i

[0:21:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): will ask you to wrap up if that's uh and please um respect that and with that um you can raise

[0:21:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): your hand it's the lower part of the screen if you raise your hand to speak oh sorry trustee

[0:21:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): Morrison yeah

[0:21:37] Trustee Morrison (probable): maybe before we go um fully to the public it would be great to just have a

[0:21:42] Trustee Morrison (probable): conversation a little bit around okay because I know that that's an issue with um between South

[0:21:46] Trustee Morrison (probable): and North Pender and and I'd frankly be curious about the South Pender trustees thoughts on any

[0:21:52] Trustee Morrison (probable): of the work that we've been doing because these islands while separate legally in terms of local

[0:21:58] Trustee Morrison (probable): trust committees you know we're we're a larger community so I'd be interested to hear what they

[0:22:03] Trustee Morrison (probable): have to say about any of this all right

[0:22:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): uh trustee mcconkey yeah

[0:22:06] Trustee McConchie (probable): and i just would like to know what

[0:22:08] Trustee McConchie (probable): was decided at your ltc meeting yesterday you discussed this uh at great length and so it'll

[0:22:12] Trustee McConchie (probable): be great to hear from south pender trustees welcome trustee wright welcome trustee thorne

[0:22:16] Trustee McConchie (probable): that's great to have you guys here at the early hour of 10 o'clock i know it's early on south

[0:22:20] Trustee McConchie (probable): pender um it'd be great to provide you know all the islands here we've got a lot of attendees uh

[0:22:25] Trustee McConchie (probable): with uh with an update on what how you guys uh tackled the issue of the maximum house size

[0:22:30] Trustee McConchie (probable): on self-pender all

[0:22:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): right so we're gonna open the floor i guess we'll have a kind of a panel

[0:22:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): conversation around house size and uh open the floor so uh who from south pender

[0:22:42] Voice 14: would like to

[0:22:43] Voice 14: talk about my size good morning good

[0:22:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): morning so

[0:22:52] Trustee McConchie (probable): what was decided yesterday at the south pender

[0:22:54] Trustee McConchie (probable): local trust committee uh trustee wright or trustee thorne well

[0:22:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): there were there were no decisions

[0:22:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): There was direction to

[0:23:00] Voice 18: staff on drafting, so.

[0:23:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yeah.

[0:23:03] Voice 18: Hi, everybody.

[0:23:04] Voice 18: Thank you for welcoming us to join your panel today.

[0:23:10] Voice 18: So yesterday was a follow-up discussion to a meeting we had in September on this topic,

[0:23:20] Voice 18: on the topic of house size.

[0:23:22] Voice 18: Ours is house size, and then it's also related to some other land use issues that are linked

[0:23:29] Voice 18: they're linked and it's the issue of setbacks so um we've been having just a bit of a recap of the

[0:23:35] Voice 18: uh we've been having a conversation with our community for quite some time now about house

[0:23:41] Voice 18: and about setbacks and and and i do think they are related issues because if certainly from the

[0:23:46] Voice 18: perspective of south pender uh you know we have always been guided by our ocp and the preservation

[0:23:53] Voice 18: of rural character, privacy between adjoining properties,

[0:23:57] Voice 18: trying to reduce the acoustical transmission

[0:24:00] Voice 18: between properties.

[0:24:01] Voice 18: So to me, it's not only house size,

[0:24:05] Voice 18: but it's also where the houses are situated on a property

[0:24:08] Voice 18: that are central to meeting our goals.

[0:24:13] Voice 18: So we're blessed with having generally larger properties

[0:24:18] Voice 18: or some areas where the property widths are narrower.

[0:24:22] Voice 18: over so uh what we've done is we've um we're advancing a proposal to increase the side yard

[0:24:29] Voice 18: setbacks for cottages and houses from 10 feet to 20 feet the 10 feet is what's currently there

[0:24:37] Voice 18: 10 feet has been there for a long long time i know speaking to robert uh some time ago i think

[0:24:42] Voice 18: it was an old carryover from from maybe a more urban setting from the crd a long long time ago

[0:24:48] Voice 18: that we just inherited uh our proposal is not to change the setbacks for for accessory buildings

[0:24:54] Voice 18: so things like wood sheds chicken coops uh garages those are buildings that a people don't live in

[0:25:01] Voice 18: which really shouldn't be living in and b they are the ridge height of those structures is lower

[0:25:07] Voice 18: than the ridge height that's permitted for a house or a cottage so those are those under our proposal

[0:25:13] Voice 18: would stay at 10 feet, whereas cottages and houses would go to 20 feet. And again, like

[0:25:20] Voice 18: anything else, there's an opportunity for a variance if there's a demonstration that

[0:25:24] Voice 18: you can't make that. So that's one thing that we're looking at. The second thing is we're

[0:25:30] Voice 18: looking at reducing the house sizes, not only based on the OCP that I mentioned a minute

[0:25:40] Voice 18: minute ago but also based on the predominant form of development on our on self pender and we did

[0:25:45] Voice 18: an extensive investigation using government data primarily CRD area atlas map and then the BC

[0:25:55] Voice 18: assessment authority to look at the size of homes that currently are built on the island

[0:25:59] Voice 18: and there are some homes that are that are above the range that we're proposing but for the most

[0:26:07] Voice 18: Most of the homes that are currently built on the island, regardless of the lot size, would fall under or they would be caught within the proposed house sizes that Steve and I have been talking about.

[0:26:20] Voice 18: So our numbers, you know, I throw in some numbers out in September. Those are still a subject of discussion.

[0:26:27] Voice 18: Trust me, right yesterday brought forward some numbers which you can let him speak about.

[0:26:30] Voice 18: about, but interestingly enough,

[0:26:32] Voice 18: the numbers that Steve proposed,

[0:26:36] Voice 18: I guess grapevines think alike

[0:26:37] Voice 18: or however you want to describe it,

[0:26:40] Voice 18: they're fairly similar to the proposed house sizes

[0:26:43] Voice 18: that North Pendler's looking at as well.

[0:26:45] Voice 18: So Steve, you might want to pick up on that.

[0:26:49] Voice 22: Well, thanks.

[0:26:50] Voice 22: Yeah, I think reducing host size,

[0:26:55] Voice 22: while it may appear to be controversial,

[0:26:57] Voice 22: I think there's so many benefits attached to it.

[0:26:59] Voice 22: And one of them that I don't think comes into conversation very, very much with respect to house size, but it certainly does with our social fabric of our communities.

[0:27:10] Voice 22: And that is the affordability of homes and availability of rental units for housing.

[0:27:20] Voice 22: And it's not too big of a stretch to understand that when assessments are based on the square footage of a building, then the larger the building, the higher the assessment.

[0:27:29] Voice 22: And when the assessment goes up on a particular building,

[0:27:34] Voice 22: then the neighboring homes assessments also climb.

[0:27:37] Voice 22: And I think the rising assessments,

[0:27:40] Voice 22: which are sort of unprecedented at this time,

[0:27:44] Voice 22: there is impacts on the cost of living.

[0:27:47] Voice 22: And I think for that reason, a number of people,

[0:27:50] Voice 22: particularly those on fixed income or limited income

[0:27:55] Voice 22: are slowly being priced out of their homes

[0:27:58] Voice 22: when it's combined with the rising cost of inflation and the rise of food and rise of fuel,

[0:28:06] Voice 22: rise of insurance, everything's going up.

[0:28:08] Voice 22: So when you add on to all this sort of stuff, it just starts piling on

[0:28:13] Voice 22: and making a fairly distressful life for many of our residents.

[0:28:18] Voice 22: So I think if we can do anything as a trustee,

[0:28:23] Voice 22: the only thing we can do in order to reduce those assessments is to reduce floor size.

[0:28:33] Voice 22: I'm not going to get too much more into the social aspects of this sort of thing,

[0:28:40] Voice 22: other than I think homes are simply becoming treated as a commodity, as an asset or an

[0:28:49] Voice 22: investment. And I think that the wealth that is prevalent around this whole region where

[0:28:58] Voice 22: a lot of money is coming in and there is anticipation of larger house sizes, which

[0:29:03] Voice 22: are going in on every urban area and certainly spreading to rural areas. I think one of the

[0:29:08] Voice 22: things we can do is simply say we're not interested in that kind of wealth. We're not

[0:29:13] Voice 22: not interested in that kind of house size.

[0:29:16] Voice 22: And we'd like to try and keep new houses,

[0:29:19] Voice 22: a new construction within the proportion

[0:29:22] Voice 22: of the existing community that we have now.

[0:29:25] Voice 22: So I think a cap on maximum floor size

[0:29:29] Voice 22: makes sense on any number of these things.

[0:29:32] Voice 22: So I won't go too much further than that.

[0:29:34] Voice 22: I'll leave it with you.

[0:29:35] Voice 22: If there's any direct other questions or stuff,

[0:29:37] Voice 22: you can certainly tap me on the shoulder

[0:29:39] Voice 22: and I'll answer, thank you.

[0:29:42] Voice 22: Thank you.

[0:29:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you, trustees.

[0:29:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): Anyone else want to join the conversation on house size?

[0:29:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yeah,

[0:29:48] Trustee McConchie (probable): I'll be very brief.

[0:29:50] Trustee McConchie (probable): The reason why I would as a trustee want to review this bylaw is because the official

[0:29:56] Trustee McConchie (probable): community plan in the North, in the North Pender official community.

[0:30:00] Trustee McConchie (probable): plan basically directs the local trust committees to consider it says it shall be considered a

[0:30:07] Trustee McConchie (probable): maximum floor size for houses so I believe as a trustee I'm simply following the direction of

[0:30:11] Trustee McConchie (probable): the official community plan which was adopted by our community over extensive years the other

[0:30:17] Trustee McConchie (probable): concern I have is that there's no baseline for the size of a house on North Pender which is

[0:30:23] Trustee McConchie (probable): concerning we want all most folks on Pender they come they build an environmentally sensitive home

[0:30:29] Trustee McConchie (probable): now. It's part of the dialogue. The idea behind this bylaw is you can still come to the local

[0:30:36] Trustee McConchie (probable): trust committee and propose a 10,000 square foot house, even if we pass this bylaw. It's just more

[0:30:41] Trustee McConchie (probable): that the trust committee, the local trust committee will be determining that. The future

[0:30:45] Trustee McConchie (probable): local trust committee has the power with this bylaw to say yes or no in the future. So I feel

[0:30:50] Trustee McConchie (probable): like we're setting up to ensure that the community has a say in how the shape and form and character

[0:30:56] Trustee McConchie (probable): of these islands look in the years to come.

[0:30:59] Trustee McConchie (probable): So those are my general comments, thanks.

[0:31:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you, Trustee Morrison, do you want to add anything?

[0:31:05] Voice 14: I

[0:31:08] Trustee Morrison (probable): think that what's been said reflects my thinking.

[0:31:13] Trustee Morrison (probable): Having created the new or proposing the new

[0:31:18] Trustee Morrison (probable): rural residential zone allows us to think in North Pender

[0:31:21] Trustee Morrison (probable): because North Pender has a different history

[0:31:23] Trustee Morrison (probable): than South Pender.

[0:31:24] Trustee Morrison (probable): So like we have Magic Lake

[0:31:26] Trustee Morrison (probable): and we have sort of everywhere else and there there are differences so I'm interested in this

[0:31:34] Trustee Morrison (probable): issue of house setbacks but I don't know that it's practical in the Magic Lake area just the

[0:31:41] Trustee Morrison (probable): way the lots have been laid out and constructed but it may be quite practical and wanted in other

[0:31:47] Trustee Morrison (probable): areas because it gives more privacy on lands and I like the idea that it's for occupied buildings

[0:31:52] Trustee Morrison (probable): buildings only, as opposed to, you know, sheds and wood sheds, because that can get really tricky

[0:31:58] Trustee Morrison (probable): for folks to like accommodate. And also, like we have that, you know, fire smart issue with wood

[0:32:03] Trustee Morrison (probable): sheds, you don't really want your woodshed super close to your house, even though it's like really

[0:32:07] Trustee Morrison (probable): cold in the winter to go out and get your wood. It's just like a fire hazard to have it too close

[0:32:11] Trustee Morrison (probable): to your house. So that allows a little bit more options for homeowners to think about.

[0:32:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): Christy Thorne, did you want to?

[0:32:19] Voice 18: Yeah, no, thanks. We're just going to mention

[0:32:22] Voice 18: that certainly

[0:32:25] Voice 18: and I think you're on the right

[0:32:27] Voice 18: I think you're on the right path with looking at

[0:32:31] Voice 18: your community in the way that you have

[0:32:33] Voice 18: by looking at a particular goal for Magic Lakes and

[0:32:36] Voice 18: Trincomalee as opposed to the rest of

[0:32:39] Voice 18: the rest of the island. I mean, you know, we

[0:32:42] Voice 18: we're trying to look in a forward fashion

[0:32:45] Voice 18: in terms of how we plan for future development in a way

[0:32:48] Voice 18: that meets our OCP goals and our environmental goals, et cetera.

[0:32:51] Voice 18: But we're also, you know, the die is being cast in many senses

[0:32:56] Voice 18: in terms of the existing forms of development,

[0:32:58] Voice 18: particularly in Magic Lakes and Trincomalee.

[0:33:01] Voice 18: So I think you've got to work with what the circumstances are.

[0:33:04] Voice 18: And I would agree with you that, you know,

[0:33:07] Voice 18: it's not a one-size-fits-all approach.

[0:33:09] Voice 18: And certainly I would think that setbacks,

[0:33:11] Voice 18: such as what we're talking about on South Pender,

[0:33:13] Voice 18: probably would not be applicable in Magic Lakes,

[0:33:16] Voice 18: just because of a lot of configurations.

[0:33:18] Voice 18: The other thing I would say is,

[0:33:22] Voice 18: this is, and I echo what Ben is saying,

[0:33:25] Voice 18: this is not a hard number that says

[0:33:29] Voice 18: that those house sizes can't be greater

[0:33:31] Voice 18: than what we might end up agreeing to in bylaws.

[0:33:35] Voice 18: There is, I think one of the reasons why,

[0:33:41] Voice 18: one of the other reasons why looking at a house size maximum

[0:33:45] Voice 18: on this because right now there is absolutely no guidelines there's there's no if somebody if

[0:33:53] Voice 18: somebody's building with within that the house size that's uh outlined in the land use bylaw

[0:33:58] Voice 18: they pretty much got uh free reign to do whatever they want and again i'm not trying to to be

[0:34:05] Voice 18: oppressive in terms of people's property rights but i think there's also a recognition that you

[0:34:09] Voice 18: know no no person is an island and what they do has impacts on the people around them and on the

[0:34:13] Voice 18: the community around them and so it's trying to find a balancing act of saying we recognize

[0:34:18] Voice 18: people's property rights but we're also trying to find a way to balance those property rights

[0:34:23] Voice 18: against the rights of people around them and so when you start to talk about larger buildings and

[0:34:29] Voice 18: and the massing associated with that i think it does warrant a conversation uh with the broader

[0:34:36] Voice 18: community and with other perhaps the the trust and the planners and others that have got experience

[0:34:41] Voice 18: for instance, in design and planning

[0:34:45] Voice 18: to make sure that whatever you're proposing to do

[0:34:49] Voice 18: is not only giving you more square footage,

[0:34:52] Voice 18: but it's sensitive to the properties around you.

[0:34:55] Voice 18: So I think that's something that's important to consider.

[0:35:02] Voice 14: Yes, Trustee McConkie.

[0:35:03] Trustee McConchie (probable): Yeah, just briefly.

[0:35:04] Trustee McConchie (probable): I just want to make sure,

[0:35:05] Trustee McConchie (probable): is the live streaming still working?

[0:35:06] Trustee McConchie (probable): Just asking the self-office.

[0:35:08] Trustee McConchie (probable): I just got a couple notes saying the live stream's not working

[0:35:10] Trustee McConchie (probable): and then I have a specific question.

[0:35:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): um it says it's

[0:35:14] Trustee McConchie (probable): live streaming and i guess so

[0:35:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): robin if you can look into that if there's been

[0:35:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): some no

[0:35:18] Trustee McConchie (probable): it's okay it's not a big deal so the other um a comment uh i just wanted to ask the

[0:35:23] Trustee McConchie (probable): south pender trustees is as soon as you cross the bridge from north pender to south pender you can

[0:35:27] Trustee McConchie (probable): build a bigger cottage on your property um your secondary uh cottage and on north pender i believe

[0:35:34] Trustee McConchie (probable): the bylaw states 600 square feet correct me if i'm wrong planner stock deal health pender i'm

[0:35:40] Trustee McConchie (probable): I'm curious to know, you have a larger square footage allowed for a cottage structure.

[0:35:47] Trustee McConchie (probable): I'm wondering, how's that experience been going?

[0:35:50] Trustee McConchie (probable): If you have any thoughts, because this is something that has been asked of me as a trustee

[0:35:54] Trustee McConchie (probable): to consider allowing, because there's lots, I've actually had three folks say to me, three

[0:35:59] Trustee McConchie (probable): separate houses, hey, I've got a big house, but I'd be willing to move, you know, my younger

[0:36:03] Trustee McConchie (probable): family, like my kids into that big house, but I want to stay on the property.

[0:36:07] Trustee McConchie (probable): and but the 600 square feet is too small you know I'm wondering if you guys have any thoughts on

[0:36:13] Trustee McConchie (probable): that and how it's been working on South Pembroke well

[0:36:17] Voice 22: I think originally Ben cottages were looked

[0:36:20] Voice 22: were defined as seasonal cottages they were used for people to come over and stay in the summertime

[0:36:26] Voice 22: so there is essentially a glorified camp out at some point in the 80s that that term drifted away

[0:36:34] Voice 22: and just became known as cottages.

[0:36:36] Voice 22: It was the previous trust committee of South Pender Island,

[0:36:42] Voice 22: I believe by the name of McConkie or some peculiar name,

[0:36:48] Voice 22: and Wendy Schofield, they were requested to increase the size

[0:36:53] Voice 22: of the cottages to 750 feet for exactly that reason

[0:36:59] Voice 22: and the people were saying 600 is not enough to house either a couple or a couple with a child

[0:37:11] Voice 22: because now those cottages were no longer being used as seasonal they were actually being used

[0:37:16] Voice 22: for full-time residency year-round and so the community agreed with that principle and so they

[0:37:22] Voice 22: that it was pushed.

[0:37:24] Voice 22: In tandem with that, they also allowed,

[0:37:28] Voice 22: raised the height of our accessory buildings

[0:37:32] Voice 22: so that those cottages or that floor space

[0:37:36] Voice 22: could also be built above a garage

[0:37:39] Voice 22: or above another accessory building,

[0:37:41] Voice 22: which would resolve some of the problems

[0:37:44] Voice 22: or complaints about footprints

[0:37:47] Voice 22: so that you would utilize the same footprint of a garage

[0:37:49] Voice 22: and have your cottage above that sort of scenario.

[0:37:54] Voice 18: I think just to carry on from what Steve is saying, and I do think that I don't think we've seen too many examples.

[0:38:03] Voice 18: I don't know because it's not it doesn't require our involvement, but it makes sense to me for all the reasons you've described.

[0:38:11] Voice 18: I think the other thing is, you know, we have a fair bit of topography on our islands, and I think trying to deliver all the square footage in a single structure can sometimes be, you know, it can require some fairly strong manipulation at times of the grades.

[0:38:34] Voice 18: If you are able to, it's not necessarily a hamlet, but a series of smaller structures that maybe tuck into the landscape in a more sensitive way, it still gives you the ability to have, you know, more living space, but to do it in a way that is, again, it just tucks more nicely into the environment.

[0:39:02] Trustee McConchie (probable): I'm curious to hear from maybe full-story planters, Dr. Hill.

[0:39:06] Trustee McConchie (probable): Thank

[0:39:08] Voice 7: you. So just a comment about the cottage floor area. You were correct. It's 600 feet squared for North Pender and it's 750 for South Pender. And the difficulty that we've noticed is that currently the maximum floor area of cottage, or sorry, the maximum floor area of a cottage is found in the definition of a cottage at the very front of the land use bylaw.

[0:39:33] Voice 7: so if somebody wants to exceed that 600 feet squared they can't apply for a development

[0:39:38] Voice 7: variance permit because we can't vary definitions so as part of this land use bylaw review we're

[0:39:45] Voice 7: actually removing that maximum floor area and putting it into each individual zone so if it's

[0:39:52] Voice 7: adopted it allows property owners to come forward with a development variance permit to increase

[0:39:57] Voice 7: increase the maximum floor area. The LTC also has, as you mentioned, Trustee McConkie, you have the

[0:40:04] Voice 7: option to increase that in the bylaw, but as it stands, this proposed bylaw, if it moves forward,

[0:40:11] Voice 7: there'd be an opportunity now for property owners to apply for a DVP, which they don't have that

[0:40:17] Voice 7: option right now. I just wanted to make that point. Great.

[0:40:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right. Is it time to open the

[0:40:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): floors. All right. So I'm going to look to you. This is your chance to talk to us. If you are

[0:40:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): attending through the live stream, you won't be able to communicate. I cannot speak English this

[0:40:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): morning. Communicate with us. If you want to be able to speak to us, you need to hit the attend

[0:40:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): button. There were two choices when you were at the screen. So those of you that are in attendance

[0:40:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): today, you should be able to raise your hand at the lower part of your screen, and we can turn

[0:40:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): your microphone on and you can address us again please discuss issues not individuals and um and

[0:41:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): we are looking forward to this dialogue so is there anyone that like to uh ask questions or

[0:41:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): have comments at this time it's a very quiet group there's no ah here we go there all right

[0:41:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): the first one was a brian evans if uh robin if you could brian if you take yourself off mute

[0:41:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): Good morning.

[0:41:28] Voice 25: Just a couple of quick ones.

[0:41:30] Voice 25: Concerning the number of buildings, I'm concerned if you have a small woodshed and another small building, say a small boathouse to hold a couple of canoes, that would violate your new one building maximum.

[0:41:44] Voice 25: So it seems that small buildings like a tool shed or a woodshed should not be included in that definition.

[0:41:51] Voice 25: So that's one quick question.

[0:41:52] Voice 25: and the other one

[0:41:56] Voice 25: I'm concerned about the W3 designation for properties that's surely going

[0:42:02] Voice 25: to make anyone who has a W1 property have that property become extremely valuable because if

[0:42:08] Voice 25: anyone's looking for a replacement property or wants a dock that will obviously make those

[0:42:14] Voice 25: premium properties so I didn't understand the restriction on the new private docks thank you

[0:42:19] Voice 25: all

[0:42:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): right thank thank you Brian also I'll look to the trustees do you want to have a number of

[0:42:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): questions and then answer them off in a batch. So that's great. So we'll proceed and ask your

[0:42:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): questions and then we'll try to group them into conversations here in a bit. Okay. I see the next

[0:42:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): person is Mick Collins. Good morning. If you take yourself off mute, we'll be able to hear you.

[0:42:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): Hello.

[0:42:47] Voice 1: Hi, good morning, everybody. Mick Collins here in Victoria today and 30 years of property

[0:42:54] Voice 1: the owner on North Pender. Just a couple of comments. One is a little more clarification

[0:43:01] Voice 1: on the dock one. My reading of what you're saying is there will be no new docks in the future

[0:43:10] Voice 1: unless there's one already there. So I don't have a particular interest in a particular dock for

[0:43:19] Voice 1: myself but i'm i'm wondering in terms of um the rationale for for that i mean um access to the

[0:43:29] Voice 1: water and having a dock is an amenity for the property owner if it's done in an environmentally

[0:43:36] Voice 1: property work properly way there i think there are existing senior government regulations related to

[0:43:43] Voice 1: the docks so um it seems to me that this is basically banning future water ocean front

[0:43:53] Voice 1: properties from putting any dock structure um into the water off their land so i would say

[0:44:01] Voice 1: some clarification of the existing regime of senior government and how um the trust is now

[0:44:09] Voice 1: involved in putting it into bylaw would be helpful. And also, I understand, you know,

[0:44:18] Voice 1: there can be environmental issues around docks, like what is the benefit of restricting that

[0:44:25] Voice 1: amenity to a waterfront property owner? So that's an add on to the previous speaker. The second one

[0:44:33] Voice 1: really relates to the commercial zoning on MacKinnon.

[0:44:38] Voice 1: Just a couple of observations there.

[0:44:41] Voice 1: I think commercial zoning for tourist accommodation

[0:44:46] Voice 1: is quite limited on Pender Island.

[0:44:51] Voice 1: The focus is on that particular location.

[0:44:56] Voice 1: I have no problem with showing proof of water.

[0:45:00] Voice 1: We can see that process playing out on Saltspring already.

[0:45:06] Voice 1: I think we have to be careful about any restrictions on existing commercial zoning for tourist accommodation of a legal commercial nature,

[0:45:18] Voice 1: when one of the founding principles of the whole Islands Trust is for the benefit of all British Columbians,

[0:45:26] Voice 1: which means they have to have an ability to come and stay over here and not just camp so i think um

[0:45:34] Voice 1: tourist accommodation properly zoned has a role subject to water and uh i think you want to be

[0:45:44] Voice 1: real clear where you're going with whatever you have uh down at mckinnon or anywhere else where

[0:45:51] Voice 1: where tourist commercial zone is permitted.

[0:45:54] Voice 1: I think you have to be very careful

[0:45:56] Voice 1: about restricting future uses as long as the water's there.

[0:46:00] Voice 1: So I'm just giving you these are my opinions

[0:46:02] Voice 1: of someone who's followed the trust for 30 years

[0:46:06] Voice 1: and has some background in resource management

[0:46:09] Voice 1: and environmental planning.

[0:46:12] Voice 1: And I'm coming into this process fairly late in the day,

[0:46:17] Voice 1: so I'm interested in your observations.

[0:46:19] Voice 1: I also think the discussion going on with South and North Bender is a very helpful thing, because there's obviously going to be different conditions on both islands, but you want some degree of continuity between two planning processes and two trusts, so I commend you for that.

[0:46:38] Voice 1: that. That's all I have to say right now. So I'll take my hand down and see if you've got any more

[0:46:45] Voice 1: speakers. And this is a good opportunity for everybody else to wait in, because it is pretty

[0:46:50] Voice 1: late in the game when you've got all this stuff written down.

[0:46:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right. Thank you very much,

[0:46:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): Mick. Appreciate that. And the next speaker here is Murray.

[0:47:07] Voice 14: Hello. Can you hear me?

[0:47:08] Voice 14: Yes. Good

[0:47:09] Voice 14: Good morning.

[0:47:10] Voice 21: Okay.

[0:47:11] Voice 21: My questions relate to the floor area ratio.

[0:47:15] Voice 21: My first question is,

[0:47:17] Voice 21: why are we switching to interior

[0:47:20] Voice 21: versus exterior square footage?

[0:47:23] Voice 21: BC assessment goes by exterior.

[0:47:26] Voice 21: We all think about exterior square footage.

[0:47:29] Voice 21: It just seems odd that we would switch

[0:47:32] Voice 21: to that measurement.

[0:47:34] Voice 21: And it's something that it's a lot more difficult

[0:47:39] Voice 21: to calculate when you're thinking about planning a new house or even evaluating your current house

[0:47:45] Voice 21: so I question that and I further to that question are other jurisdictions using that that methodology

[0:47:53] Voice 21: those are my questions uh

[0:47:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): thank you very much uh Murray did does someone want to address that

[0:47:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): question I saw uh Trustee Morrison yeah

[0:48:02] Trustee Morrison (probable): and I can talk to a couple of these and then if other

[0:48:05] Trustee Morrison (probable): trustees want to weigh in too that's fine um so to the most recent one and then a couple things

[0:48:11] Trustee Morrison (probable): about the mckinnon zoning and the um dock issue so the the floor area interior versus exterior

[0:48:20] Trustee Morrison (probable): that was actually an ask of some of the builders on the island in conversation so that alternative

[0:48:26] Trustee Morrison (probable): building methods aren't penalized by that might use thicker wall structures aren't penalized um

[0:48:33] Trustee Morrison (probable): for square footage so that's where that's come from um i i couldn't speak to if other jurisdictions

[0:48:39] Trustee Morrison (probable): are using that or if they should be using that um

[0:48:41] Voice 22: sorry agricultural

[0:48:44] Voice 22: land reserve goes interior

[0:48:45] Voice 22: okay

[0:48:46] Trustee Morrison (probable): yeah so part of that is things like cob housing has much thicker wall structures and

[0:48:52] Trustee Morrison (probable): some of the other alternative housing structure methods um and if you're if we want to encourage

[0:48:57] Trustee Morrison (probable): people to build in ways that are a little bit more local or a little bit more alternative

[0:49:02] Trustee Morrison (probable): we shouldn't penalize them on the square footage so that that's what that idea was about um but

[0:49:08] Trustee Morrison (probable): interested to see about the mechanics of how that would actually play out and how it can be managed

[0:49:13] Trustee Morrison (probable): because that's that's reasonable to understand the challenge in terms of the mckinnon zoning area

[0:49:19] Trustee Morrison (probable): um yeah so really thinking about that in as part of the whole plan of commercial zoning on pender

[0:49:27] Trustee Morrison (probable): my biggest concern right there there right now given that the landowners in the area that have

[0:49:33] Trustee Morrison (probable): commercial zoning are actually very amenable to um addressing the water issues um is really a i'd

[0:49:41] Trustee Morrison (probable): love to hear people's thinking about road access and traffic in that space because that's the only

[0:49:47] Trustee Morrison (probable): issue that's difficult to manage in that area um water we can manage that in particular ways

[0:49:54] Trustee Morrison (probable): and then the the thing about docs relative to i think it was um brian and nick both i think had a

[0:50:00] Trustee Morrison (probable): a little bit of a question around this um the province is potentially coming down with a dock

[0:50:05] Trustee Morrison (probable): ban so it may be a moot point whether we do it or not um however having us think about docks is not

[0:50:13] Trustee Morrison (probable): just about putting the dock in the water because that is really different jurisdiction in many ways

[0:50:18] Trustee Morrison (probable): although many would argue that the trust goes into the water too um but it's there's also in

[0:50:25] Trustee Morrison (probable): cultural implications. So when you dig on the foreshore in the Gulf Islands, you're likely

[0:50:31] Trustee Morrison (probable): digging into archaeological and cultural spaces. And so it, you know, when we're thinking about

[0:50:39] Trustee Morrison (probable): the benefit for all British Columbians, we're not just thinking about individuals' rights to access

[0:50:46] Trustee Morrison (probable): water or not, like foreshore or not. If you're not a boat access property, then it's not a given

[0:50:52] Trustee Morrison (probable): that you have the right to a dock in that space and that's a question for us as a community do

[0:50:57] Trustee Morrison (probable): we want to look like pierce island where there's docks everywhere or and do we want to think

[0:51:01] Trustee Morrison (probable): carefully with our first nations community members um that have territory in this space about the

[0:51:07] Trustee Morrison (probable): disruption that we're potentially causing on for sure so sorry that was long-winded no that's

[0:51:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): right well while we're answerable we'll talk about these three questions at the so the interior

[0:51:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): interior versus exterior the mckinnon road and the docks for a moment as a panel is there anyone

[0:51:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): else that wishes to answer um i see trustee mcconkey oh

[0:51:29] Trustee McConchie (probable): planet stock bill can i ask a

[0:51:30] Trustee McConchie (probable): question of maybe planet kojima whoever's awake um is it can if we pass the zoning change the

[0:51:37] Trustee McConchie (probable): zoning on regarding docks can people still apply to build a dock oh

[0:51:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): you're a muted uh planner

[0:51:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): under stock bill

[0:51:46] Voice 7: sorry my apologies um if they if the foreshore area is zoned a water three that

[0:51:55] Voice 7: does not permit a dock in order for a property owner to have a dock in the foreshore area they

[0:52:00] Voice 7: would have to go through every zoning process and so there would be an application fee potentially

[0:52:06] Voice 7: professional reports completed every zoning application there's a public process as well

[0:52:12] Voice 7: which involves a public hearing it would involve referrals to First Nation and other agencies

[0:52:18] Voice 7: and the official community planned amendment bylaw that's accompanying this project also have

[0:52:26] Voice 7: has a number of items that the proposal would have to meet so ensuring that the proposed dock

[0:52:31] Voice 7: wouldn't impact sensitive ecosystems or impact archaeological sites so that would be the process

[0:52:38] Voice 7: Yeah,

[0:52:39] Trustee McConchie (probable): so a person, if they want to build a dock on their property, no matter what, can go build a dock as long as they go through Check XYZ, which consults the community, essentially, under this proposed zoning.

[0:52:48] Trustee McConchie (probable): And correct me if I'm wrong, Trustee Wright and Trustee Thorne from South Pender, we're essentially adopting what you guys already have in place, correct?

[0:52:56] Voice 22: That's right.

[0:52:57] Voice 22: Right. Aside from the impacts to the environment, which are several, including light to the seafloor,

[0:53:11] Voice 22: there's destruction of potential eelgrass or other forage fish environments and all that stuff.

[0:53:19] Voice 22: There is a number of things. So what the Sells Bender Island Trust Committee did last term

[0:53:24] Voice 22: was to remove docks as an outright permitted use.

[0:53:28] Voice 22: And so that if anyone wanted to have a dock

[0:53:31] Voice 22: then they would simply have to apply for rezoning.

[0:53:34] Voice 22: And since then we have had no applications.

[0:53:38] Voice 22: The other advantage I think that is underestimated

[0:53:42] Voice 22: in this situation is if someone has to go

[0:53:46] Voice 22: through a rezoning process, it opens up the conversation

[0:53:48] Voice 22: to the community and gives them an opportunity

[0:53:51] Voice 22: to have their input into the siting of it,

[0:53:56] Voice 22: the design of it, the size of it, et cetera, et cetera,

[0:53:59] Voice 22: which if it is an outright permitted use

[0:54:01] Voice 22: is simply not there.

[0:54:05] Voice 14: All right, thank you.

[0:54:06] Trustee McConchie (probable): So, sorry.

[0:54:07] Trustee McConchie (probable): Oh, go ahead.

[0:54:09] Trustee McConchie (probable): Just following, so folks were asking,

[0:54:11] Trustee McConchie (probable): like Brian and Mick were asking,

[0:54:12] Trustee McConchie (probable): like what is the justification?

[0:54:14] Trustee McConchie (probable): And my political stance on these issues

[0:54:18] Trustee McConchie (probable): with regards to aeronautics, with regards to marine traffic

[0:54:21] Trustee McConchie (probable): is that it should be centralized we should be encouraging our community to consider centralizing

[0:54:26] Trustee McConchie (probable): this in particular locations of the island rather than it be a piecemeal approach but nonetheless

[0:54:31] Trustee McConchie (probable): if this bylaw passes people still have that opportunity if they really want to dock they

[0:54:36] Trustee McConchie (probable): can go ahead this bylaw just simply says hey you know let's ask the community what they think let's

[0:54:42] Trustee McConchie (probable): ensure that we've they've taken an appropriate appropriate appropriate appropriate environmental

[0:54:47] Trustee McConchie (probable): environmental uh concerns into place because that wasn't in place before like it's kind of

[0:54:52] Trustee McConchie (probable): essentially a free-for-all for docks right now right there's no ask of the community the way

[0:54:56] Trustee McConchie (probable): it is correct you correct me if i'm wrong finer stock or or um i might i'm not wrong okay yeah

[0:55:04] Trustee McConchie (probable): yeah

[0:55:04] Voice 24: there's some there's some basic regulations on docks float area the size of the float and the

[0:55:09] Voice 24: width of the ramp um but those are pretty basic regulations um um there's no um discretionary

[0:55:18] Voice 24: approval on the part of the local trust committee currently when it comes to docs

[0:55:25] Trustee McConchie (probable): great oh sorry go ahead chair patrick no keep going answer some other questions uh with regards

[0:55:30] Trustee McConchie (probable): to the mckinnon road commercial zoning i mean we're working with uh the property owners there

[0:55:35] Trustee McConchie (probable): I've done a site visit.

[0:55:37] Trustee McConchie (probable): I mean, I think it's a great opportunity for this trust committee to work with what is a proposed development.

[0:55:45] Trustee McConchie (probable): 55 units is a lot of units on that piece of property.

[0:55:49] Trustee McConchie (probable): And right now we're in a position as a trust committee to work with those landowners to see what they've got and what they have proposed.

[0:55:57] Trustee McConchie (probable): And right now I haven't seen a proposal for what they actually plan to do.

[0:56:02] Trustee McConchie (probable): I've had a great meeting with them, but it's unclear to me how many units they want to put in, what they want to do, how that will impact the McKinnon Road, which is a very small road, highly densified, how this will impact groundwater.

[0:56:16] Trustee McConchie (probable): There's a number of questions.

[0:56:17] Trustee McConchie (probable): So the Trust Committee, by addressing this, really takes into account the community needs.

[0:56:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): Go ahead, Trustee Wright.

[0:56:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): I

[0:56:26] Voice 22: think if anyone has listened or heard or read any of my posts in the past couple of years, one of the things that I've been trying to raise awareness to is tourism and the need for the local community to define those market strategies as opposed to having special interest groups or particularly the provincial government determine them for us.

[0:56:53] Voice 22: um tourism is an industry and it is uh it has many benefits as a community knows but it also

[0:57:00] Voice 22: has a number of implications and some of those are fairly serious consequences so um if if if

[0:57:09] Voice 22: there is going to be tourism accommodation developed which i think is uh is is critical

[0:57:13] Voice 22: to this island uh and necessary i don't have any problems with that i think what the community

[0:57:19] Voice 22: needs to do is is what type of tourism do we want to have and what type of facilities do we have

[0:57:24] Voice 22: I think there is enough luxury spas scattered all throughout the province.

[0:57:28] Voice 22: I'm not sure we need to have them or whether they fit within the context and the character of the islands.

[0:57:36] Voice 22: If we are going to have new tourism developments that rely on particularly seasonal mobile employees,

[0:57:46] Voice 22: then perhaps one of the things we should start considering is to ask developers to provide temporary accommodation units

[0:57:52] Voice 22: So that those people that come into their community for the seasonal employment are not taking employment or rental units away from local residents.

[0:58:06] Voice 22: So tourism is a really big industry.

[0:58:10] Voice 22: It has a lot of implications.

[0:58:11] Voice 22: And I think that simply saying, well, let's just deal with the numbers and see what happens.

[0:58:16] Voice 22: I think it's a complex issue that needs to be carefully considered from all fronts.

[0:58:21] Voice 22: So I really encourage you to open up the whole idea of what tourism is, how it should be incorporated into the community, and what it would look like.

[0:58:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): Okay. There was one question that we didn't address, and that was Brian's question about the number of buildings.

[0:58:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I'm wondering if anyone can clarify that question. Trustee Morrison?

[0:58:48] Trustee Morrison (probable): Yeah, I had a question about that, and maybe this is a question for Kim.

[0:58:51] Trustee Morrison (probable): um so we had talked at some point about having um overall square footage or percentage cover

[0:59:00] Trustee Morrison (probable): i think percentage cover was potentially the way we went just for counting purposes

[0:59:05] Trustee Morrison (probable): not requiring surveys necessarily or making it simpler for applicants um and and i think that

[0:59:12] Trustee Morrison (probable): is of interest to me because i understand the challenge that we face with having um you know

[0:59:19] Trustee Morrison (probable): know, multiple buildings, little things here and there and everywhere. And I guess there, there's

[0:59:24] Trustee Morrison (probable): an, my goal with, with overall floor, floor size area for, for occupied buildings and overall

[0:59:33] Trustee Morrison (probable): coverage on the ground is really related to one, the footprint of like the vegetation that's no

[0:59:40] Trustee Morrison (probable): longer on the ground because there's a building on the ground and the water infiltration issues

[0:59:45] Trustee Morrison (probable): issues related to that um and then so i so it doesn't matter to me from that perspective if

[0:59:51] Trustee Morrison (probable): you if your building's one over there another over there and another over there from the total floors

[0:59:55] Trustee Morrison (probable): um so the total lot coverage area in terms of the occupancy

[1:00:00] Trustee Morrison (probable): building coverage for me it's a little bit more about our obligations toward energy efficiency

[1:00:05] Trustee Morrison (probable): towards like overall role character there's a lot of stuff wrapped up in the like occupancy

[1:00:11] Trustee Morrison (probable): buildings what what trustee right said earlier like trying to like keep a cap on the giant

[1:00:17] Trustee Morrison (probable): houses that drive all of our assessments up like that's also in my mind as we think about

[1:00:22] Trustee Morrison (probable): affordable housing and other options of handling that so i think those are my reasonings um so

[1:00:28] Trustee Morrison (probable): So Kim, sorry, I can never use like last names.

[1:00:33] Trustee Morrison (probable): It just doesn't, it's not me.

[1:00:35] Trustee Morrison (probable): So Kim, I'm wondering if you can just give a clarity

[1:00:39] Trustee Morrison (probable): to what the current draft of our bylaw says

[1:00:43] Trustee Morrison (probable): with respect to the number of buildings

[1:00:46] Trustee Morrison (probable): versus like total lot coverage.

[1:00:49] Voice 7: Yes, so currently for the rural residential zones,

[1:00:52] Voice 7: there is a maximum lot coverage of 25%.

[1:00:55] Voice 7: And the LTC has asked staff to come back with potential numbers for a total maximum floor

[1:01:06] Voice 7: error for all buildings and structures based on that 25%.

[1:01:10] Voice 7: And those numbers will be presented at the meeting on February 25th.

[1:01:16] Voice 7: So currently, there's no regulation for how many accessory buildings you can have.

[1:01:21] Voice 7: as long as you're meeting the setback requirements the height and the lot coverage and the one as I

[1:01:29] Voice 7: mentioned earlier the regulation the LTC is considering to have that one accessory building

[1:01:34] Voice 7: that's and I perhaps there was I wasn't clear is that's only when there's bare land there's

[1:01:41] Voice 7: nothing on the property right now you're permitted the one but after you have your principal use so

[1:01:46] Voice 7: your dwelling or cottage then you're permitted to have as many accessory buildings as your you

[1:01:52] Voice 7: would like as long as you meet the lot coverage setback and so forth thank

[1:01:57] Voice 18: you thank you

[1:01:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): uh trustee

[1:01:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): thorne yeah

[1:02:00] Voice 18: i was just going to say um that's something that we actually have we implemented

[1:02:05] Voice 18: probably a number of years ago uh previous with the given outbuilding so an outbuilt as it was

[1:02:13] Voice 18: explain to me uh an access it's hard technically to have an accessory built on a property

[1:02:20] Voice 18: because an accessory building has to be accessory to the single family dwelling so absence of the

[1:02:25] Voice 18: single family dwelling then it's a bit of conundrum so the outbuilding was a way of

[1:02:30] Voice 18: allowing people to do whether it's tools and things that are working in the property

[1:02:35] Voice 18: at the time that and then once your single family dwelling is built

[1:02:40] Voice 18: As I understand, the outbuilding would just redefine it as an accessory building.

[1:02:45] Voice 18: The other thing that we've done, and again, this goes back to Bruce and Wendy in their term, when they took the first sort of look at issues of house size,

[1:03:01] Voice 18: they basically put the total square footage that you could build on a property, imagine, into an envelope, into a manila envelope.

[1:03:08] Voice 18: And out of that manila envelope, we allocated a certain amount that was for the maximum house size.

[1:03:15] Voice 18: So if you didn't build, so I'm just making a number up for easy math, but if you had the total buildable of 10,000 square feet on a piece of property of which you could build a 4,000 square foot house,

[1:03:28] Voice 18: If you didn't build the 4,000-square-foot house, you only built it to 35, then that extra 500 could be used for other accessory buildings on the property.

[1:03:38] Voice 18: So it was an ability to give people some sense of flexibility in terms of how they might want to use the density and not feel that they were sort of so-called leaving density on the table so that if they didn't build that 4,000 square foot house that, you know, it was going to be, that area couldn't be realized for something else.

[1:04:01] Voice 18: So, you know, I mean, it's debatable. Some people like that, some don't, but it seems to have been received fairly well by the community in terms of giving them that flexibility.

[1:04:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): I think, Trustee McKenzie?

[1:04:15] Trustee McConchie (probable): Yeah, I want to hear from more questions, but I just wondering if we addressed Murray's point, which I thought was a good point about exterior, the measurement of exterior and it being a common way and why are we doing it interior?

[1:04:25] Trustee McConchie (probable): I'm wondering who can address that?

[1:04:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): That was the first question Trustee Morrison answered.

[1:04:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): um so i don't know if you want

[1:04:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): to repeat that trustee morris right no

[1:04:36] Trustee Morrison (probable): it's okay so so kim and

[1:04:38] Trustee Morrison (probable): you can clarify for the the aspect of other places but my my ask for that that was my ask i believe

[1:04:44] Trustee Morrison (probable): originally and my ask for that was from conversations with builders on the island

[1:04:49] Trustee Morrison (probable): who are working to build alternative types of building things like cob housing so that they're

[1:04:54] Trustee Morrison (probable): not penalized on on usable occupied square footage um when they're building things that

[1:05:00] Trustee Morrison (probable): have much thicker wall footprints.

[1:05:04] Trustee McConchie (probable): Okay, thanks for clarifying. Yeah.

[1:05:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): Okay, so we're going to

[1:05:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): move back to some questions. Thank you. And I know if we didn't answer your question, I would like to

[1:05:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): hear first time questions. But of course, if you want to clarify that, you are welcome. So I see

[1:05:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): there's a JH, if you could tell us who your name is. We're going to turn your mic on now. If you

[1:05:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): You can take yourself off mute.

[1:05:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): J.H., there we go.

[1:05:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): Hello.

[1:05:35] Voice 17: Yes.

[1:05:35] Voice 17: Hello.

[1:05:36] Voice 17: It's Jean Deshains.

[1:05:38] Voice 17: Good morning.

[1:05:40] Voice 17: Good morning.

[1:05:42] Voice 17: I have a few comments.

[1:05:44] Voice 17: One first on the house sizes.

[1:05:49] Voice 17: I'm not totally sure why this has come up at all.

[1:05:53] Voice 17: All our percentages, our building requirements, our setbacks have all worked very well.

[1:06:04] Voice 17: Maybe there's been a couple of properties that have offended a few people.

[1:06:08] Voice 17: But to my knowledge, I'm not sure how many actual complaints you've received about how our zoning was.

[1:06:18] Voice 17: And it seems to me that most of the decisions are just being made by trustees' wishes, not by the general population of the residents.

[1:06:32] Voice 17: Regarding docks, it was mentioned earlier about how the people that will be zoned for a dock, how their properties will definitely be increased in value.

[1:06:46] Voice 17: value and therefore I see it's not fair to the ones that you are going to restrict

[1:06:54] Voice 17: that can possibly reduce the value of their property when they bought it they assumed oh

[1:07:00] Voice 17: I can put a dock in now I know you've said it's possible you can apply for it but it's a big

[1:07:07] Voice 17: process and a lot of cost. Curious. Helicopters, as you mentioned and as Planner Stockdale

[1:07:19] Voice 17: clarified, that it is a federal issue and probably a moot point for trustees. And I

[1:07:27] Voice 17: think we have one private one, so I'm not sure why you've spent all this time on that

[1:07:32] Voice 17: that issue. What else? Curious, all that you've mentioned about outbuildings and what you're

[1:07:43] Voice 17: planning, is it still possible to build a hundred square foot structure without a permit? That's

[1:07:52] Voice 17: one of my questions. And I think that's it for now. That's enough. Thank you.

[1:07:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you so much, Jean. We're going to ask for a number of questions and then we'll have another

[1:08:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): discussion period there so thank you well uh the next person

[1:08:05] Voice 14: is uh kathy kathy v there can you hear

[1:08:13] Voice 14: me yes good morning uh

[1:08:15] Voice 20: good morning um a little bit of a comment um there with gene too uh which

[1:08:21] Voice 20: had me thinking um with the 25 percent uh like i'm in magic lake and if i look at i i did have

[1:08:29] Voice 20: a question about okay uh i assume that that is all right now the decks because mostly i have

[1:08:36] Voice 20: coverage of 25% but my house is 1800 square feet but then I don't have a garage I have a

[1:08:43] Voice 20: couple of outbuildings and but I have a question with regards to square footage if we're my house

[1:08:52] Voice 20: has to be having a basement because of the slope on the land so you know it has different levels

[1:08:59] Voice 20: of heights in the basement because of the land slope so is that going to be looking if it's like

[1:09:05] Voice 20: let's say, 2,500 square feet, is that going to be including this basement? Because I also look

[1:09:13] Voice 20: at lot coverage. If we were to say 2,500 square feet of a primary residence, somebody could have

[1:09:19] Voice 20: a bungalow and cover, you know, that whole thing on your land, where somebody could have a three

[1:09:25] Voice 20: story house and not cover as much land. So, I mean, I guess I'm looking at as well at, you know,

[1:09:33] Voice 20: know, the 25% seems to be working. I mean, I've got 100 trees on my half acre property, you know,

[1:09:41] Voice 20: and still have, you know, these other things. So I guess that's just a bit of food for thought.

[1:09:45] Voice 20: And how much in the square footage does a deck, because I have a high land, I've got lots of

[1:09:52] Voice 20: stairs going down, which would all be inclusive. So I'd be down to probably 1000 square feet if I

[1:09:59] Voice 20: I was counting, you know, some of these things of where I have to have the porch or to make it look,

[1:10:04] Voice 20: you know, a nice rural character with the porch at the front. So I guess I have some questions

[1:10:09] Voice 20: around, you know, that square footage and what counts in your primary residence, you know,

[1:10:16] Voice 20: for the porches, etc, etc. And with the setbacks, I see the setbacks working. I mean, I look at I

[1:10:25] Voice 20: I would have liked to have moved my house over more to the middle.

[1:10:27] Voice 20: I'm 11 feet on one side, but it was because of the slope of the land.

[1:10:31] Voice 20: So in Magic Lake, yes, it's really hard to extend it to 20 feet or something like that.

[1:10:37] Voice 20: Anyway, I'll just leave that for a couple of questions and thoughts.

[1:10:42] Voice 20: Thank you very much.

[1:10:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you very much, Kathy.

[1:10:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): The next person is Sandra.

[1:10:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): Good morning, Sandra.

[1:10:54] Voice 12: Good morning.

[1:10:56] Voice 12: I just have a couple of comments and a couple of questions.

[1:10:59] Voice 12: questions, mostly regarding the docs. I have been in touch with staff about we are in an

[1:11:07] Voice 12: application process to with the ministry for tenure. And I had had wanted to clarify whether

[1:11:15] Voice 12: or not because we're in process, whether the we would be considered w one going forward, or

[1:11:24] Voice 12: Or if we would now be W3 because there is no existing dock and we would have to apply for zoning once because the application process is very slow.

[1:11:35] Voice 12: It can take three years for the ministry to get back to us on that.

[1:11:38] Voice 12: And if that changed in the meantime, I'm just curious how that would affect our application.

[1:11:44] Voice 12: And also, I think there's a bit of misconception about the rules around docks.

[1:11:50] Voice 12: um the ministry does require a biologist to review the area um there's i think the rules

[1:11:59] Voice 12: are actually quite strenuous and um so by saying that all there is is you know like if if there is

[1:12:08] Voice 12: any eelgrass you probably won't have an application accepted for a dock so there's no point in even

[1:12:13] Voice 12: applying um so i think that there's a bit of a misconception that anybody can build a dock

[1:12:18] Voice 12: anywhere um and i had a question about the percentage of cover and then or i guess it's

[1:12:25] Voice 12: more of a comment about percentage of cover on the lot um just i mean as it stands right now

[1:12:33] Voice 12: you could build a build an outbuilding the size of an ice rink as long as your roof height is 15

[1:12:40] Voice 12: feet high but if you want to build a nice little barn on a rural property that's over 15 feet high

[1:12:48] Voice 12: which fits into the rural character of the islands you have to apply for a variance and it's

[1:12:54] Voice 12: you know there's no guarantee that you would get that so I just think that there's

[1:12:58] Voice 12: you know like there needs to be some sort of give and take I guess around things that

[1:13:07] Voice 12: fit within the character the rural character of the islands but fall outside of the existing

[1:13:13] Voice 12: height limits and things like that so it's just something to think about and that's it

[1:13:18] Voice 12: it. Thanks for your time.

[1:13:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you very much, Sandra. Before, so Cameron Thorne, I see you want

[1:13:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): to jump in to answer. I would look to the trustees. Do you want a couple more questions or is that a

[1:13:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): good batch to answer? So we're going to go with a conversation there on it. So I'll open up the

[1:13:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): floor there, Trustee Thorne. Yeah, I don't think it's just in

[1:13:37] Voice 18: terms of the last comments. I mean,

[1:13:40] Voice 18: you know, your comments about building something the size of an ice rink and limited to 15 feet,

[1:13:45] Voice 18: It totally resonates with me, and that's something that I was, I wasn't thinking an ice rink, I was thinking a greenhouse, but same analogy, you know, on South Pender, we had the same situation where you could build these very, very large structures, which, which I think aesthetically weren't pleasing, and they also covered a lot of ground.

[1:14:02] Voice 18: And as Steve mentioned earlier, that's why we made the change to increase the ridge height.

[1:14:08] Voice 18: I think it's 25 feet now for accessory buildings.

[1:14:11] Voice 18: Cottages and houses are 30, accessories 25.

[1:14:14] Voice 18: So that gave us that an extra 10 feet to be able to add that second story on and to be able to arrive at a massing that might be more visually pleasing and also reduce the footprint.

[1:14:26] Voice 18: So I do think it's something, you know, if I could suggest so, I think it's something that would be worthy of you guys considering on North Bender.

[1:14:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): Okay. Anyone else want to jump in on the questions?

[1:14:38] Trustee Morrison (probable): Yeah, I'll throw a couple thoughts in. I have a quick question, I think, first. And that is,

[1:14:47] Trustee Morrison (probable): Kim, do you know right now the way we have things? Did we name that structures that are permeable

[1:14:55] Trustee Morrison (probable): are not in the coverage? I can't remember if we named that or not. So like decks, for instance,

[1:14:59] Trustee Morrison (probable): the question about decks if decks are constructed in a way that are permeable um or that like allow

[1:15:06] Trustee Morrison (probable): light through for organic matter are they counted because i know driveways that are permeable are

[1:15:11] Trustee Morrison (probable): not counted yeah

[1:15:12] Voice 7: yeah so um in the we are or the ltc is proposing to amend the lot coverage

[1:15:18] Voice 7: definition to include impervious surfaces so if you can let light through then they wouldn't be

[1:15:27] Voice 7: included in log coverage yeah so

[1:15:30] Trustee Morrison (probable): then structures like stairs i think it was kathy had mentioned

[1:15:34] Trustee Morrison (probable): that our stairs are decks that are constructed in ways that let light and water through more

[1:15:39] Voice 7: than likely those would be included in long coverage because they're structures

[1:15:43] Voice 24: okay so her question if i can just jump in was about um floor area so she was her question was

[1:15:50] Voice 24: around are decks included would decks be included in floor area and coverage and would that reduce

[1:15:57] Voice 24: you know affect the size of the dwelling and so no a deck or a porch would not be included in

[1:16:04] Voice 24: floor area unless it was fully enclosed and roofed and the other question she had was about

[1:16:10] Voice 24: basements and yes basements would be included and are included in floor area where there's

[1:16:15] Voice 24: floor area limits unless they're crawl spaces unless they're under a certain height

[1:16:19] Voice 24: Yeah,

[1:16:20] Voice 7: it's five feet. If you're under, or if it's under five feet, then it's not a story. If it's greater than five feet, then it'd be considered a story and included in the floor area calculation.

[1:16:31] Voice 7: calculation.

[1:16:32] Trustee Morrison (probable): And just to be clear, I also interpreted Kathy's question to be around the

[1:16:38] Trustee Morrison (probable): 25% coverage for the structures. So as we have it right now, decks and stairs, even if they're

[1:16:47] Trustee Morrison (probable): permeable, are counted in the 25% coverage is what you're saying, Kim?

[1:16:52] Trustee Morrison (probable): Yeah. Okay.

[1:16:53] Trustee Morrison (probable): Okay. So

[1:16:54] Voice 24: there's any, any structure is included in lot coverage now, but what's now excluded

[1:17:01] Voice 24: are driveways are not included. Right. Paved driveways are not included. And what's proposed

[1:17:08] Voice 24: to change is that a driveway that's impermeable will now become part of lot coverage. Yeah. And

[1:17:23] Voice 24: so

[1:17:24] Trustee Morrison (probable): a couple thoughts on that um i actually don't know how i think about decks that are permeable

[1:17:31] Trustee Morrison (probable): and let light through because to me the issue when you have structures on a built or a an area

[1:17:37] Trustee Morrison (probable): is really about water getting through it's a water management issue largely from my perspective

[1:17:43] Trustee Morrison (probable): because we get a ton of rain at certain periods and then nothing and we need that water to sink

[1:17:48] Trustee Morrison (probable): into the groundwater and so that's the bigger concern that i have in terms of uh non-permeable

[1:17:54] Trustee Morrison (probable): driveways that's the same issue um in terms of just making sure we have the most permeable ground

[1:18:01] Trustee Morrison (probable): area um so that would just be my thought we should do like maybe pin that one for a conversation kim

[1:18:07] Trustee Morrison (probable): of just like do decks and and and stairs count or not depending if they're permeable or light

[1:18:13] Trustee Morrison (probable): visual. And then there's a couple other things I think that were brought up by Jean.

[1:18:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): Before you go, I think I also heard her question too. There was a difference between the square

[1:18:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): foot question versus lot coverage so that the deck doesn't subtract from the maximum square

[1:18:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): foot allowance. So I think that I just wanted to clarify that because I thought that was part of

[1:18:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): her question was, did I lose some square feet for a deck?

[1:18:41] Trustee Morrison (probable): Yeah, I think Robert got that too.

[1:18:43] Trustee Morrison (probable): So, okay. And then setbacks to like setbacks related. I think we've already talked about that at the beginning of the meeting. Setbacks in Magic Lake being somewhat different as a just problem historically, the way lots are in this area being different than they might be on the rest of the island.

[1:19:00] Trustee Morrison (probable): um i i do want to address gene's concern that um that trustees are um you know making decisions

[1:19:11] Trustee Morrison (probable): but not by the whole community that's simply not true like we're having community meetings like

[1:19:16] Trustee Morrison (probable): this right now and we spend a lot of time talking to different people in the community just give us

[1:19:22] Trustee Morrison (probable): the call, like lots of people do. And so thinking about the idea that, you know, folks aren't

[1:19:30] Trustee Morrison (probable): worried about house size, it's just, again, not true. So there are a lot of concerns in this

[1:19:36] Trustee Morrison (probable): island that while our rules may seem like they've been working fine and probably have been working

[1:19:41] Trustee Morrison (probable): fine generally, the actual rules themselves allow much bigger houses. Leave Magic Lake behind

[1:19:49] Trustee Morrison (probable): because it's a totally different animal. When you look at 25% of coverage in Magic Lake,

[1:19:54] Trustee Morrison (probable): it's a reasonable coverage. It's generally a reasonable house. When you step outside of Magic

[1:19:58] Trustee Morrison (probable): Lake and you start thinking about, you know, five and 10 acre lots, a 25% coverage is not

[1:20:06] Trustee Morrison (probable): reasonable anymore. And so that's, I think, where the concern is really being heard. And the setbacks

[1:20:13] Trustee Morrison (probable): of of 10 um meters again not really great when you're talking about a 10 acre area and somebody's

[1:20:22] Trustee Morrison (probable): building their house right up against the boundary to your 10 acre lot if you're buying a 10 acre lot

[1:20:27] Trustee Morrison (probable): you're wanting some privacy and so like increasing that privacy and maintaining the rural character

[1:20:32] Trustee Morrison (probable): in those areas i think is actually pretty critical and we have heard a lot from folks

[1:20:37] Trustee Morrison (probable): that that is something people want maintained because we are starting to get some fairly

[1:20:42] Trustee Morrison (probable): serious pressures that are changing the nature of the island and folks who have lived here for

[1:20:48] Trustee Morrison (probable): a long time who've developed here for a long time they've done things in the vein of the islands

[1:20:53] Trustee Morrison (probable): but what we're seeing now we are starting to see in the last couple years especially

[1:20:58] Trustee Morrison (probable): some deep shifts in who's coming to the island which is fine for new people to be here

[1:21:03] Trustee Morrison (probable): but it means that some people are bringing with them the the ideas of how to build from other

[1:21:09] Trustee Morrison (probable): locations and it is changing how building is happening here

[1:21:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): trustee thorn saw your hand up

[1:21:16] Voice 18: thanks i just wanted to echo what what deb had to say and yeah you know one of the reasons why

[1:21:21] Voice 18: we looked at house size um um not just based on lot coverage was for the very reasons that

[1:21:29] Voice 18: deb pointed out 25 and everybody could do the math an acre is for 43 560 square feet

[1:21:37] Voice 18: 25 that's almost 11 000 square feet if you're building hypothetically if you're building on

[1:21:44] Voice 18: two levels you're you're over a 20 000 square foot house i'm not suggesting that that we're

[1:21:49] Voice 18: seeing a lot of that but the potential is there and and uh and that was one of the reasons why

[1:21:54] Voice 18: in self-tender uh we felt like it was important to to look at mechanisms other than just lot size

[1:22:01] Voice 18: to make sure that that what uh what was being built fit within the community and you know

[1:22:08] Voice 18: the other thing i would say is is you know we've had on self-pender people when we brought this

[1:22:15] Voice 18: topic up people have said well why are you even bringing this up we like everything the way it is

[1:22:19] Voice 18: don't change it and our point is if you like things the way they are this is why we're wanting

[1:22:25] Voice 18: to make sure that our bylaws are reflective of and calibrated to the built environment that's

[1:22:31] Voice 18: currently here as i said at the beginning of the conversation most of the houses that are

[1:22:36] Voice 18: currently built in south pender are far far smaller than what's permitted under any lot

[1:22:41] Voice 18: size category and so it's just something to bear in mind all

[1:22:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): right uh trustee mcconkey i'll try

[1:22:48] Trustee McConchie (probable): and be brief here i want to hear from more questions thanks for all your comments fellow

[1:22:51] Trustee McConchie (probable): trustees i just want to address gene's comment uh that i believe it was and i'm quoting uh this

[1:22:57] Trustee McConchie (probable): is trustee's personal agenda or something to that effect like the trustees are making this up

[1:23:03] Trustee McConchie (probable): And I just find that comment just, it's illogical for the following reasons.

[1:23:09] Trustee McConchie (probable): Number one, there's no benefit politically or popularity to do this whatsoever.

[1:23:15] Trustee McConchie (probable): It is not a popular thing, does not benefit me in any way as a person or as a politician

[1:23:22] Trustee McConchie (probable): to say you can't do something on the island, right?

[1:23:25] Trustee McConchie (probable): It's not, so I'm taking the direction of the official community plan, which was adopted

[1:23:31] Trustee McConchie (probable): opted by our community to address these concerns.

[1:23:34] Trustee McConchie (probable): Now, the other comment is, I think this is a very challenging, I mean, it's a kind of

[1:23:39] Trustee McConchie (probable): a global comment, but as democracy is taking a hit right now throughout our world, this

[1:23:46] Trustee McConchie (probable): is essentially all these proposals are saying, hey, let's ask the community and our elected

[1:23:52] Trustee McConchie (probable): representatives, what do you think?

[1:23:55] Trustee McConchie (probable): Right now, these things are not in place.

[1:23:59] Trustee McConchie (probable): There is no ask of the community. Certainly, yeah, with dogs, you got to talk to the province. But why can't we talk to North Penderites as well, especially if you've got some concerns? To me, I consider this bylaw review is very challenging, not necessarily popular, but it is certainly not a personal agenda on any regard.

[1:24:18] Trustee McConchie (probable): It is a pro-democratic, pro-local governance approach that I think if you really sit down and think about it, how could you be opposed to allowing community members to have a say on how their islands are run and how we protect the environment, how we ensure a healthy, sustainable economy? Thanks.

[1:24:41] Voice 14: come on um

[1:24:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): uh planner buckle thank

[1:24:44] Voice 7: you so i just wanted to answer two questions here that i notice

[1:24:48] Voice 7: are um i'd like to make a point of as gene had a question about can you uh build a 100 or a

[1:24:55] Voice 7: structure that's less than 100 square feet without a permit that's really a question for the crd

[1:25:01] Voice 7: building department i know that they have parameters around what structures could be

[1:25:05] Voice 7: exempt from that so you'll want to contact chris watson another thing is although you

[1:25:10] Voice 7: for some structures, you don't need a building permit, you may still be constructing within a

[1:25:14] Voice 7: development permit area. So although a building permit may not be required, you may still need

[1:25:19] Voice 7: a development permit through the Islands Trust. So just please be aware of where you're putting

[1:25:25] Voice 7: that building and if it's located in a DPA. Sandra had a question about in-stream applications

[1:25:32] Voice 7: applications with the province.

[1:25:34] Voice 7: So at the

[1:25:35] Voice 7: October 22nd, 2021 regular LTC meeting,

[1:25:40] Voice 7: the LTC made a resolution that for all in-stream

[1:25:47] Voice 7: applications with the province, there's currently 11,

[1:25:49] Voice 7: that those properties would be re-zoned to Water 3.

[1:25:53] Voice 7: So what that would mean is that you would be,

[1:25:56] Voice 7: Water 3 would not permit a private dock.

[1:25:59] Voice 7: so Sandra I just wanted to note if um just wanted to mention that and encourage writing a letter

[1:26:06] Voice 7: uh for further comments all

[1:26:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): right thank you um so we'll open up again and carry on with more

[1:26:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): questions um I think uh I see Sandra's hand is still up I think that was uh where we had left

[1:26:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): off Patrick yes sorry

[1:26:25] Trustee Morrison (probable): can I just I just Kim I want to be really clear on that so so because

[1:26:29] Trustee Morrison (probable): because there's a there was actually two pieces I think that are still left hanging here one one

[1:26:33] Trustee Morrison (probable): is about the dock so in-stream applications are are or are not included allowed for docks

[1:26:44] Trustee Morrison (probable): they

[1:26:45] Voice 7: will not okay so

[1:26:47] Voice 7: those are those applications or those property owners that are currently

[1:26:51] Voice 7: with the province they're waiting for the approval of their lease currently they're those areas are

[1:26:58] Voice 7: zoned water one that permit a private dock if the land use bylaw is approved those areas would be

[1:27:06] Voice 7: rezoned from water one to water three they would no longer be permitted a private dock and if their

[1:27:13] Voice 7: lease is approved by the province after adoption of this bylaw the property owners would have to

[1:27:18] Voice 7: go through a rezoning process to permit their private dock thanks

[1:27:24] Trustee Morrison (probable): for that so what i what i

[1:27:25] Trustee Morrison (probable): I would like landowners to do is if they had an existing dock or if there is an existing structure

[1:27:32] Trustee Morrison (probable): that lapsed because I think that might be the situation here I actually want them to write that

[1:27:37] Trustee Morrison (probable): into us so that we can specifically include or exclude that if we decide to do that because I

[1:27:42] Trustee Morrison (probable): think there's one or two places on the island where they're in that situation but there is an

[1:27:46] Trustee Morrison (probable): existing dock with an expired lease and so I just want that to be it's a weird situation and I think

[1:27:53] Trustee Morrison (probable): we need to address it like one-on-one. So that's just a request for property owners who have an

[1:28:00] Trustee Morrison (probable): existing dock, but it's lapsed lease because that happened in a few cases, I know. So that's one

[1:28:06] Trustee Morrison (probable): thing. And then the other thing that came up that I don't think we addressed the question yet was

[1:28:10] Trustee Morrison (probable): about the barn issue. I had a question about that. What is the rule around accessory building height

[1:28:17] Trustee Morrison (probable): height in agricultural areas?

[1:28:20] Voice 7: Yes, I know that the proposed amendments are actually increasing

[1:28:24] Voice 7: the height, and I'm just looking for that number right now for farm structures, if you bear with

[1:28:31] Voice 7: me.

[1:28:32] Trustee Morrison (probable): Yeah, and I think that was a recommendation, if I remember, from the agricultural,

[1:28:36] Trustee Morrison (probable): um, whatever.

[1:28:38] Voice 7: I believe it's to 10 meters in height. Okay.

[1:28:43] Voice 7: Just going through the

[1:28:45] Voice 7: bylaw right now i'll come back to you and answer that question just so i don't hold

[1:28:52] Voice 7: anything thank

[1:28:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): you all right i'm going to move on sandra i'm we'll come back to you i want to

[1:28:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): give people up first opportunities and if you still have your hand up we'll come back to that

[1:29:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): so mary beth uh randu okay i'm unmuted yes you are good morning good morning it's still good

[1:29:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): morning yes um

[1:29:12] Voice 8: i wanted to say thank you to trustees and staff for having this public

[1:29:16] Voice 8: process as a community information meeting. I would like to speak in non-support for the

[1:29:22] Voice 8: proposed floor area caps on housing and structures and suggest this bylaw initiative should be put

[1:29:28] Voice 8: on hold and we should refocus on a comprehensive review of housing shortages on North Pender

[1:29:34] Voice 8: Island because those two issues are interrelated. And specifically, I live in Magic Lake along with

[1:29:41] Voice 8: gene to shane's and i do not support bylaw changes for our neighborhood and like gene i'm trying to

[1:29:47] Voice 8: understand what is broke perhaps i have missed the detailed study of our neighborhood showing

[1:29:53] Voice 8: there is a problem uh i may not have seen that or has there been a letter of support for the bylaw

[1:30:00] Voice 8: changes from our society, the Magic Lake Property Owners Society, I notice that there is a letter

[1:30:06] Voice 8: of non-support from the Stanley Point Group. And on that, it is my understanding that there

[1:30:14] Voice 8: are many letters of non-support for these initiatives and few letters of support.

[1:30:19] Voice 8: And my experience, I think you're all coming to know as in municipal government,

[1:30:24] Voice 8: has been that when there is so much non-support that the elected officials will generally not

[1:30:29] Voice 8: proceed. And we'll instruct staff to go back and work with the community to build consensus.

[1:30:37] Voice 8: And again, it's good that trustees are having informal conversations with their people and

[1:30:44] Voice 8: groups, you know, just call me, that's an interesting idea. It's a good idea. But again,

[1:30:50] Voice 8: as staff, it's my understanding that it is the formal response that has legal status. It's the

[1:30:57] Voice 8: all the formal letters from groups and association, I tried to sort of scroll through them

[1:31:05] Voice 8: as they're posted on the project page. So, I assume, again, that staff perhaps at the next

[1:31:13] Voice 8: stage would have a summary, or maybe they've already done that and I've missed it, a summary

[1:31:19] Voice 8: summary of all the inputs, support, non-support, which topic. And then finally, with respect to

[1:31:27] Voice 8: any groundwater bylaws in advance of the initiative, the groundwater strategy being

[1:31:32] Voice 8: considered by Trust Council, it appears there is only, from what I can tell, I watched the webinar

[1:31:38] Voice 8: last night trying to catch up on this, but it appears there are only local areas of water

[1:31:43] Voice 8: scarcity in our Gulf Islands. That is from the province. And so, a broad application of

[1:31:49] Voice 8: restrictions based on incomplete studies appears premature to me. What if we're putting in all

[1:31:55] Voice 8: sorts of groundwater issues where there is no possibility, where there will not be water

[1:32:02] Voice 8: scarcity? So, I request that those would be put on hold pending getting and completing the science

[1:32:11] Voice 8: on groundwater thank you all

[1:32:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): right thank you mary um okay the next person diane

[1:32:19] Voice 14: logan there we go

[1:32:28] Voice 14: oh hi okay

[1:32:31] Voice 14: um hi diane um

[1:32:33] Voice 6: thank you for this meeting it's great um to hear all sides of it

[1:32:39] Voice 6: and i'm really really happy to see the split to the rr1 and rr2 back to where it was in the early

[1:32:47] Voice 6: early 90s and through the 70s and 80s so that's great um my first thing is is when I go to the

[1:32:53] Voice 6: projects page for for the projects and you go to land use bylaw review and you look and you see

[1:33:00] Voice 6: number three proposed bylaws it says none under public um community consultation it says none

[1:33:08] Voice 6: of course the the having gone through the process um and seeing it earlier there you go to draft

[1:33:15] Voice 6: bylaws and you see the draft bylaws but if you're looking at the page you would not want to go

[1:33:21] Voice 6: further and see what's going on because it's telling me and I have looked at this page several

[1:33:25] Voice 6: times trying to find out there's lots of stuff on the short-term vacation the groundwater the soil

[1:33:32] Voice 6: nothing in the land use bylaw so that you know that's I that's in your hands so the the other

[1:33:40] Voice 6: question is is um in regards to docks i'm not too sure what the science is about docks um and and

[1:33:47] Voice 6: how that whole thing came about i grew up um with my best friend from grade five her dad was fisheries

[1:33:54] Voice 6: and oceans and from northern bc he covered and then later southern bc and one of the things that

[1:34:00] Voice 6: was done regularly is you would sit on the dock and you would look at fish and you would observe

[1:34:06] Voice 6: what's going on but it was a dock that was providing the draw for the fish um being a

[1:34:12] Voice 6: snorkeler you get in the water anytime there's something sort of above the ground the fish are

[1:34:17] Voice 6: there they come there's things growing on that i'm not sure what the environment thing is with

[1:34:24] Voice 6: the docks and um having a property um that we had a dock application we had to go to first nations

[1:34:31] Voice 6: we had you know all of those things were you know um in in the bc with the bc government so

[1:34:40] Voice 6: i'm i'm not entirely sure about that i do agree we don't want to have the entire

[1:34:45] Voice 6: island looking like it's got docks but um yeah the the tight rules on that and then i think the

[1:34:53] Voice 6: question may have been answered but there are you know what about docks that were i've been around

[1:34:57] Voice 6: for so long that there wasn't even a lease requirement in it was there something at some

[1:35:03] Voice 6: point in time that came in that said you need a lease if you've had a dock on a property for

[1:35:07] Voice 6: 80 90 years um and you're maintaining it um how did where do those fall um and then in regards to

[1:35:16] Voice 6: the the uh the the size i don't really when i look at it i don't see a problem with it

[1:35:24] Voice 6: But one question that comes to mind is, with the housing problem that we have and being a banker and knowing the economics of a suite for affordable housing as opposed to all the other options, it provides for young people to be able to qualify for mortgages by having a suite.

[1:35:41] Voice 6: It provides cheaper housing because there's already a roof being maintained, there's already services in place, there's all kinds of costs that are already borne by the other party living in that house.

[1:35:54] Voice 6: So I'm wondering if you looked at those square footages and said, okay, we need to put a cap on that for what is considered to be the people, what's allowed in that house.

[1:36:08] Voice 6: because basically if you look at all the properties in um that are decided upon if you go to get a

[1:36:16] Voice 6: septic system you have to have a system that will manage the number of bedrooms you have in your

[1:36:21] Voice 6: house if you um i'm sure when they did magic lake they had to consider all of those buildings being

[1:36:27] Voice 6: built out and people they had to have come up with some sort of a idea of how many people were

[1:36:32] Voice 6: were supposed to be in there so again my experience has been on the island that we probably have a way

[1:36:39] Voice 6: lower number of people living in a house than is average because of seniors a lot of people live

[1:36:46] Voice 6: in a home by themselves and a suite in their basement would provide somebody to be living in

[1:36:50] Voice 6: that place to be with them provides affordable housing there's you know there's so many but

[1:36:56] Voice 6: But again, you can't exceed what the plan is

[1:37:01] Voice 6: for how many people you expect in that area.

[1:37:04] Voice 6: So I see that as being something

[1:37:06] Voice 6: that should probably be combined

[1:37:08] Voice 6: into a whole overall review

[1:37:10] Voice 6: as to what's going to be allowed

[1:37:12] Voice 6: and where some sort of a parameter

[1:37:16] Voice 6: for that type of thing.

[1:37:17] Voice 6: And I hope you'll consider that sort of thing.

[1:37:21] Voice 6: And thank you.

[1:37:22] Voice 6: Thank you, Diane.

[1:37:24] Voice 14: There's a Mick Collins.

[1:37:36] Voice 14: I

[1:37:36] Trustee McConchie (probable): believe Mick's already spoken already.

[1:37:38] Trustee McConchie (probable): Oh,

[1:37:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): has Mick already spoken?

[1:37:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): Sorry, you're right.

[1:37:41] Trustee McConchie (probable): Thank you for

[1:37:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): keeping track of that.

[1:37:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): I was trying to go down through the list.

[1:37:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yes, Mike is next.

[1:37:46] Trustee McConchie (probable): Mary Beth still has her hand up.

[1:37:48] Trustee McConchie (probable): Diane still has her hand up.

[1:37:49] Trustee McConchie (probable): She's spoken.

[1:37:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you for catching me on that one.

[1:37:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): So, Mike.

[1:37:57] Trustee McConchie (probable): One sec.

[1:37:58] Trustee McConchie (probable): Just as well, we're transferring over.

[1:38:00] Trustee McConchie (probable): I'm wondering if our self-pendered trustees, I mean, a lot of these issues are north pender.

[1:38:04] Trustee McConchie (probable): maybe we can let them get on with their lives

[1:38:06] Trustee McConchie (probable): if there's any specific questions for South Pender

[1:38:09] Trustee McConchie (probable): providing us with the details of their approach

[1:38:11] Trustee McConchie (probable): to maximum house size and their approach to cottages

[1:38:14] Trustee McConchie (probable): and zoning with regards to docks as well.

[1:38:17] Trustee McConchie (probable): So any other comments, I'm not sure.

[1:38:18] Trustee McConchie (probable): I think the trustees should be able to be free from this,

[1:38:21] Trustee McConchie (probable): if they need to be.

[1:38:22] Voice 16: You can let

[1:38:22] Trustee McConchie (probable): them go back to their day.

[1:38:24] Voice 18: Much appreciated.

[1:38:25] Voice 16: Yeah,

[1:38:25] Voice 18: thank you very much for including us

[1:38:27] Voice 18: and appreciate your hard work on this.

[1:38:29] Trustee Morrison (probable): All right, thanks for being here guys.

[1:38:32] Voice 18: Yeah, thank you trustees.

[1:38:32] Voice 18: Thanks

[1:38:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): and enjoy the rest of your day. All right. Let's see. Mike, I won't even attempt your last name, but Mike, there we go. Mike, if you can take yourself off of mute.

[1:38:45] Voice 18: Hi, thanks very much. It's actually a question from my lovely wife here. Hold on.

[1:38:50] Voice 23: um good morning to all of you and thanks again for uh setting this meeting up um we are newbies

[1:38:57] Voice 23: to pender so or south pender actually so i did have a question to the trustees who've just left

[1:39:05] Voice 23: but um perhaps you can uh assist with this our property is um it backs onto mount norman park

[1:39:15] Voice 23: So there is nobody behind us. And it's a 3.58 acre site. It's extremely steep. So the building site is actually quite limited where we are going to be constructing our home.

[1:39:31] Voice 23: um so the 25 or 5.8 foot setback for um structures and whatnot it like that does that apply to where

[1:39:49] Voice 23: backs to mount norman would we have to get a dvp is that the expression in order to

[1:39:57] Voice 23: build within that area if that's the case I'd like to know because I was just looking through

[1:40:08] Voice 23: the setbacks and it didn't say anything about the boundary of our property it spoke of waterfront

[1:40:16] Voice 23: or sorry oceanfront or any water barriers and we have none on our property all right

[1:40:23] Voice 1: That's my first

[1:40:24] Voice 23: question. The second

[1:40:26] Voice 23: question is with reference to derelict vehicles. I may have missed this part, but that's one thing that I've noticed. And I am very concerned about the environment, sorry, retired military.

[1:40:41] Voice 23: We had extremely strict regulations on things like oil leaking into the ground or antifreeze or anything like that from our military vehicles.

[1:40:52] Voice 23: And we would actually, after a military exercise, if anything like that occurred, we had to literally do an environmental cleanup immediately.

[1:41:01] Voice 23: There was no, we had no leeway on that.

[1:41:06] Voice 23: Since I've been on Pender, we've observed quite a few derelict vehicles. First of all,

[1:41:12] Voice 23: personally,

[1:41:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): I think… I was going to say, I'm sorry, I didn't get your name.

[1:41:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): My name is

[1:41:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): Daphne. Hi, Daphne. Daphne,

[1:41:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): I appreciate you've got very good questions that you're asking. One, this is the… North Pender

[1:41:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): and South Pender local trust committees are indeed different bodies, even though that they were here

[1:41:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): here earlier, it was just the kind of common conversation.

[1:41:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): So some of your questions are very particular

[1:41:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): to the South Pender and I would encourage you

[1:41:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): to reach out to staff here directly

[1:41:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): and we'll make sure that contact information there

[1:41:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): and the land use bylaw here,

[1:41:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): derelict vehicles is not part of this conversation today,

[1:41:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): yet we always wanna hear feedback and concerns

[1:41:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): and thoughts on that.

[1:41:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): So I don't mean to interrupt,

[1:41:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): but I wanna keep us on topic.

[1:42:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): Trustee Morrison?

[1:42:02] Trustee Morrison (probable): And Chair Patrick, I do just want to like briefly make a statement about the derelict

[1:42:06] Trustee Morrison (probable): vehicles just because I appreciate the time spent to come to the meeting and just like

[1:42:11] Trustee Morrison (probable): to have input.

[1:42:12] Trustee Morrison (probable): So the other questions, please feel free to phone or email your self-pendered trustees

[1:42:16] Trustee Morrison (probable): directly.

[1:42:17] Trustee Morrison (probable): But in terms of the derelict vehicles, that has been something that we actually, I think

[1:42:21] Trustee Morrison (probable): at our second meeting, changed the rules and are working on bylaw enforcement around.

[1:42:25] Trustee Morrison (probable): There's already rules about it, and we're working on bylaw enforcement around.

[1:42:28] Trustee Morrison (probable): So thank you.

[1:42:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yeah, active by law enforcement. Yeah, so

[1:42:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): I almost said trustee Stockville.

[1:42:34] Voice 7: And Daphne, feel

[1:42:35] Voice 7: free to, you can email me with the specifics of your property and I can provide you some feedback on setbacks. The email address is southpenderplanner at islandstrust.bc.ca or northpenderplanner at islandstrust.bc.ca. Or you can email me at kstockville at islandstrust.bc.ca. I monitor all three emails.

[1:42:57] Voice 7: else thank you thank you very much all

[1:43:01] Trustee Patrick (probable): right thank you okay

[1:43:03] Voice 14: the next person peter jones

[1:43:10] Voice 14: hello peter hello

[1:43:12] Voice 5: uh good morning and uh first uh thank you to the trustees and staff for this

[1:43:17] Voice 5: opportunity in this format um i'm a off-island property owner in trincomalee this is our 50th

[1:43:26] Voice 5: year um in the family and i want to speak in favor of the proposed uh amendments uh regarding the

[1:43:36] Voice 5: docs um you know it's been a topic that i've watched and participated in over the last

[1:43:42] Voice 5: decades and it's been uh i would say that for the provincial agencies their process for engaging

[1:43:50] Voice 5: in communities has been uneven and and confusing and so to have a clear process for public input

[1:43:56] Voice 5: and engagement um i i think is a big step forward long overdue my question is that is there a mou or

[1:44:06] Voice 5: some other mechanism already in place to clarify jurisdiction between islands trust and um the

[1:44:13] Voice 5: the provincial government on this matter. Thank you.

[1:44:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right, thank you. Okay, I guess I'm going

[1:44:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): to take another, I think, Jeff Green, and then we'll, I think, have the conversation, because

[1:44:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): a lot of, will be some repeat questions coming up. So Jeff Green. Hello,

[1:44:35] Voice 2: Jeff. Yeah, thank you

[1:44:37] Voice 2: again, like many others. I appreciate the time and opportunity to talk. I had sort of three

[1:44:45] Voice 2: three questions, I guess, that relating mostly to the housing size. I live in a 1500 square foot

[1:44:52] Voice 2: house on North Pender. So I'm not particularly concerned about the 2500 square foot

[1:45:02] Voice 2: classifications. But I'm curious, there's been quite a few questions sort of asking about

[1:45:08] Voice 2: about house size versus lot coverage.

[1:45:12] Voice 2: So I think it'd be helpful if people understood

[1:45:16] Voice 2: what was the justification or rationale

[1:45:20] Voice 2: used by the trust to start at the 2,500 square feet.

[1:45:23] Voice 2: So why is that a magic number?

[1:45:26] Voice 2: The second one is Trustee Morrison's mentioned

[1:45:30] Voice 2: quite a few times about ground permeability

[1:45:34] Voice 2: being an objective.

[1:45:35] Voice 2: And so one of the things I'm curious about, again, it doesn't affect me, but it seems to me a multi-story house with a very small footprint is a much better thing for ground water, or not ground water, sorry, ground permeability, than a 2,500 one-story bungalow.

[1:45:54] Voice 2: So it seems to me there's a relationship between your lot size and the ground square footage.

[1:46:02] Voice 2: like to me if the bylaw allows you to build a two or three story house and it's got a very

[1:46:08] Voice 2: small footprint that's a good thing and should be encouraged not discouraged so the comment earlier

[1:46:14] Voice 2: about a basement being included seemed to me to be very counter to what you're trying to achieve

[1:46:20] Voice 2: and lastly and I had actually sent a letter to trustees Morrison and McConkie in October on this

[1:46:28] Voice 2: is it seems to me there's a dynamic between some of the things other things you're trying to achieve

[1:46:34] Voice 2: like energy efficiency sustainability appropriate siting and and square footage and it's not just

[1:46:42] Voice 2: square footage if someone's going to build a house that's highly like solar heated retaining

[1:46:49] Voice 2: groundwater doing all sorts of marvelous things for sustainability why isn't that sort of why

[1:46:57] Voice 2: Why isn't there interplay between the square footage and that?

[1:47:00] Voice 2: So it seems to me if you're trying to encourage people to be environmentally sustainable, there should be some rewards and benefits of doing so.

[1:47:09] Voice 2: And I just want to make one other point, and I'm not a groundwater specialist, I'm a biologist, but I've worked with groundwater people many times in my career.

[1:47:19] Voice 2: and just to be clear there's quite a difference between ground ground or surface permeability

[1:47:26] Voice 2: and groundwater recharge and all water that goes into the ground does not go into groundwater in

[1:47:32] Voice 2: fact where i live we're on the slope going down to the ocean cliff and most of the water runs off

[1:47:38] Voice 2: the end of the cliff it's uh like i can't tell you how much gets to the water but um i think

[1:47:43] Voice 2: that's something so something else to consider is people that live in a groundwater recharge zone

[1:47:50] Voice 2: as the ground water studies are showing I think should be treated quite differently than people

[1:47:56] Voice 2: who are not in a groundwater recharge zone still given that ground ground permeability is a valuable

[1:48:02] Voice 2: thing because it does retain soil in the moisture for trees thank you thank

[1:48:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): you very much so let's

[1:48:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): Let's respond to this batch of questions.

[1:48:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): Are there any particular additional comments

[1:48:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): anyone would like to chime in to?

[1:48:21] Trustee McConchie (probable): Questions that they wanted answered.

[1:48:22] Trustee McConchie (probable): Like Peter had a question about jurisdiction

[1:48:24] Trustee McConchie (probable): and MOU and their relationship.

[1:48:27] Trustee McConchie (probable): And also Jeff asked a question about

[1:48:30] Trustee McConchie (probable): how it came about 2,500 square feet

[1:48:33] Trustee McConchie (probable): and the rewards for being environmental

[1:48:37] Trustee McConchie (probable): if we've taken that into consideration.

[1:48:39] Trustee McConchie (probable): And also, I'm not sure if we've addressed Diane

[1:48:41] Trustee McConchie (probable): or uh diane logan's question as well or comments all

[1:48:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): right did you want to start with the kind of

[1:48:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): the doc the islands trust versus provincial requirements so it looks like robert's gonna

[1:48:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): yeah

[1:48:54] Voice 24: i can answer that uh so the specific question yeah this there actually is a

[1:48:58] Voice 24: an agreement um between the province and islands trust but it doesn't deal with jurisdictional

[1:49:05] Voice 24: issue as much as just communications and it's quite dated but really the jurisdictions are

[1:49:11] Voice 24: fairly clear at least for those of us who are involved in it the province issues the tenure

[1:49:19] Voice 24: and they have their process for that and we regulate through zoning and potentially through

[1:49:25] Voice 24: development permits as well so they're two completely independent authorities

[1:49:34] Voice 15: um if i can ask a couple

[1:49:36] Trustee Morrison (probable): other or maybe make a couple other statements

[1:49:38] Trustee Morrison (probable): I saw one of the pieces around Diane's comment was just about communications.

[1:49:45] Trustee Morrison (probable): I, too, have gone into the Islands Trust website as a citizen, like looking because I have access, of course, as a trustee to documents in different places.

[1:49:55] Trustee Morrison (probable): But as a citizen going into the North Pender page and looking for the land use bylaw project and the current state of where draft bylaws are, I think it's a bit confusing on the page.

[1:50:05] Trustee Morrison (probable): So it'd be good if that could be clarified because, um, like today I went looking for

[1:50:10] Trustee Morrison (probable): like, what is our community being as the bylaws and it was buried.

[1:50:14] Trustee Morrison (probable): So it'd be helpful if the, um, proposed stuff from December was pulled up into like, and

[1:50:18] Trustee Morrison (probable): it could just say proposed, you know, it doesn't have to say drafted, but proposed, um, would

[1:50:23] Trustee Morrison (probable): be helpful.

[1:50:25] Trustee Morrison (probable): And then, um, in terms of some of the other pieces, I think most of the other specific

[1:50:31] Trustee Morrison (probable): questions around that was answered.

[1:50:33] Trustee Morrison (probable): I do really like that idea, and Ben has mentioned this earlier too, that, you know, without having a giant additional process, I do think that things that affect the community, such as increased density of docks on the island, are something that we should have community put into.

[1:50:55] Trustee Morrison (probable): to because we've had a number of docs that have gone in so as to like what's the rationale for

[1:51:01] Trustee Morrison (probable): like addressing this problem we've had docs go in that we were not consulted on as a community

[1:51:05] Trustee Morrison (probable): and that there was actually impact and information that we had locally around you know whale movements

[1:51:13] Trustee Morrison (probable): around cultural impacts that could have been brought to bear on that and that just weren't

[1:51:18] Trustee Morrison (probable): considered in the decision and so i i do think that it is important to have community a community

[1:51:25] Trustee Morrison (probable): process in some way um and you know the the jurisdiction issue it's a real problem in the

[1:51:33] Trustee Morrison (probable): gulf islands like between the crd the province the feds and and the islands trust and you know

[1:51:40] Trustee Morrison (probable): the only way that we can really manage that we have very crude tools as government and so the

[1:51:46] Trustee Morrison (probable): the only way we can really like impact that is is through putting a restriction and then asking for

[1:51:52] Trustee Morrison (probable): a variance and that sparks the community conversation or asking for zoning um so it's

[1:51:58] Trustee Morrison (probable): not ideal i understand that but the reality is that we're not a municipality and don't have

[1:52:03] Trustee Morrison (probable): necessarily all the tools in our toolbox um like municipalities do um that also comes to play when

[1:52:10] Trustee Morrison (probable): when we're talking about some of the things I think Jeff mentioned, yeah, for sure. Ideally,

[1:52:18] Trustee Morrison (probable): we would love to have green building code with like all sorts of like nuances in it. But because

[1:52:25] Trustee Morrison (probable): we're really constrained in terms of local government about what we can and can't do,

[1:52:30] Trustee Morrison (probable): we can't say things about the design of people's houses, actually. That's not in our ability to

[1:52:36] Trustee Morrison (probable): say right now and so um you know what we can say is that it can be x size and you know on you know

[1:52:46] Trustee Morrison (probable): these types of setbacks in terms of the land use management so it's a super crude tool like when

[1:52:51] Trustee Morrison (probable): you start thinking about both the combination of square footage and the combination of block

[1:52:56] Trustee Morrison (probable): coverage because i agree actually with what you're saying that a small footprint that is

[1:53:02] Trustee Morrison (probable): like more vertical is probably less impact environmentally and it gives more housing space

[1:53:08] Trustee Morrison (probable): but the challenge that we face is some places might not work that way what about couples that

[1:53:15] Trustee Morrison (probable): want the square footage but that are older and can't manage stairs so we struggle with sort of

[1:53:21] Trustee Morrison (probable): a balance of these things and so it's a bit of a dilemma because we don't necessarily we can't say

[1:53:29] Trustee Morrison (probable): okay it's going to be site specific we're trying to get rules that are apply a little bit more

[1:53:34] Trustee Morrison (probable): generally and a really great point about the groundwater infiltration versus soil or surface

[1:53:40] Trustee Morrison (probable): permeability they are really different and hopefully we'll have all of the details of this

[1:53:45] Trustee Morrison (probable): long overdue water study in our hands before these bylaws are finalized and that we've asked for

[1:53:52] Trustee Morrison (probable): some guidance on where the recharge groundwater recharge areas relative to you know areas that

[1:53:58] Trustee Morrison (probable): have more water and maybe there would be rules that are slightly different related to that

[1:54:04] Trustee Morrison (probable): to address that sort of surface permeability or not area. I think that's the main things again

[1:54:12] Trustee Morrison (probable): soil permeability is still important from a ecological perspective as Jeff had mentioned

[1:54:18] Trustee Morrison (probable): because we do want to make sure that trees survive drying climate here. So yeah it is a really

[1:54:27] Trustee Morrison (probable): nuanced issue if we're trying to go for energy efficiency and you know water conservation and

[1:54:35] Trustee Morrison (probable): ecological conservation not fragmenting forests and all of those things are things we're trying

[1:54:40] Trustee Morrison (probable): to balance with very limited tools okay

[1:54:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): um i think we're going to go to the next set of questions

[1:54:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): here i do see right now the hands up are all people that have already spoke and i would like

[1:54:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): to give you that opportunity but first i want to make sure we've heard from people that haven't

[1:54:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): had an opportunity so is there anyone that hasn't had a chance to speak yet that is still

[1:55:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): has questions or comments that they want to make before I go start to repeat I'm not seeing any

[1:55:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): hands coming up so trustees I'm going to go

[1:55:14] Voice 14: back to second second speakers then so at the top I

[1:55:17] Voice 14: have Kathy hello Kathy hi

[1:55:23] Voice 20: there I'll try and be fast because this came up just in this discussion

[1:55:27] Voice 20: So I was wondering if you could, you know, think of re-looking at the basement type of thing or the square footage being raised to 3,000 or whatever.

[1:55:40] Voice 20: I know that was a number way back when.

[1:55:42] Voice 20: The reason is if I look at, and this will come up with other people's houses due to the land configuration, but with my basement, I have four sections.

[1:55:52] Voice 20: so um i i you know wasn't didn't realize like i mean a section to live in would be eight feet i

[1:56:00] Voice 20: think that's code is an eight foot ceiling so if you're only looking at five feet sure i've got

[1:56:07] Voice 20: one that's below five feet then the next section which has all rocks so the the floor isn't even

[1:56:13] Voice 20: straight and then it's like six feet um you know going at those are not livability areas but

[1:56:20] Voice 20: but potentially take 500 square feet out of you know the configuration of like let's say it was

[1:56:28] Voice 20: 2500 square feet that automatically would take away because it's above the five feet so I'm

[1:56:33] Voice 20: wondering if it wouldn't make more sense to say that including square footage if you have like

[1:56:39] Voice 20: a flat floor in eight feet which is is to code to have a livable space as opposed to you know

[1:56:45] Voice 20: know half your house might be gone due to you can't use it um to live in anyway that's all i

[1:56:51] Voice 20: thought uh for consideration is to to look at that uh situation so thanks very much thank you kathy

[1:56:57] Trustee Morrison (probable): and laura i i do need a clarification there because kim um i think something that you said

[1:57:03] Trustee Morrison (probable): is not a hundred percent like my understanding of the situation so my understanding of the

[1:57:08] Trustee Morrison (probable): situation is square foot calculations are done by the crd based on a set of rules that they have

[1:57:13] Trustee Morrison (probable): we put the cap on it but the qualifications of how that calculation is done is in the CRD

[1:57:20] Trustee Morrison (probable): building code and it does include things like what Kathy just named so

[1:57:25] Voice 7: there's there's the

[1:57:26] Voice 7: honest trust in the land use by North Pender and your land use bylaw you have your own definition

[1:57:31] Voice 7: and how to calculate floor area so that's where there may be some confusion the CRD may have a

[1:57:37] Voice 7: different calculation in the bc building code but when i was referring to what constitutes constitutes

[1:57:44] Voice 7: a story from floor to ceiling is 1.5 meters that's from the definition of floor area in the land use

[1:57:51] Voice 7: bylaw we

[1:57:53] Trustee Morrison (probable): might need to flag just have a look at it i agree

[1:57:56] Voice 7: that was what i noted and i'm going to

[1:57:58] Voice 7: check with chris watson too on on their definition all

[1:58:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): right thank you that's why we have community

[1:58:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): information meetings and ask these questions because that helps us as we proceed through

[1:58:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): the drafting of this language so good example thank you so i see uh uh look i'm gonna just

[1:58:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): jump we have a new speaker and allison

[1:58:16] Voice 14: hello allison hi

[1:58:21] Voice 10: there can you hear me okay yes okay

[1:58:25] Voice 10: i'm just learning all of this so please bear with me if i go over some same stuff um

[1:58:32] Voice 10: and i'm sure you'll get to it we're business owners on the island and we're experiencing

[1:58:37] Voice 10: experiencing difficulty finding staff and we are wondering you know as related to our business but

[1:58:45] Voice 10: just in general as far as housing crisis the possibility of putting a tiny home on the

[1:58:52] Voice 10: property I've been listening to what you're speaking about with square footage etc obviously

[1:58:58] Voice 10: an advantage to tiny home is you don't have to dig you don't have to disturb you know potentially

[1:59:06] Voice 10: delicate ecosystems. It's something that we could in a pinch use for housing staff. We have

[1:59:14] Voice 10: had a hellish year with finding staff and it's a problem. So I'm wondering, we live close to

[1:59:23] Voice 10: Magic Lake, what the problems would be with like a composting toilet, gray water, recycling gray

[1:59:31] Voice 10: gray water? Do we need a cistern? Anyway, if you could speak to that, if this is an appropriate

[1:59:36] Voice 10: time, if it's not, then at some point.

[1:59:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you, Alison. We're going to just group questions here

[1:59:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): and we'll come back to that. So thank you. I'm going to go back up now to

[1:59:50] Voice 14: Jeff Green.

[2:00:01] Voice 14: hello jeff oops if you can take yourself off mute jeff all right jeff we're just uh

[2:00:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): his hand came

[2:00:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): down at this point

[2:00:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): so yes uh thank you jeff if you're trying to talk to us so if you could work

[2:00:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): on that and raise your hand again and we'll try to do the best we can we have uh mick uh collins

[2:00:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): again hi

[2:00:35] Voice 1: hi again i'll keep it brief this and i don't this stock business if you have to go for

[2:00:42] Voice 1: for rezoning what would you be rezoned to like okay so you know i was thinking like rr1 rr2 and

[2:00:54] Voice 1: now we've got water three so if somebody was to go through that process would it be a spot

[2:01:02] Voice 1: rezoning that would it actually be a variance um they go to a board of variants or or what like

[2:01:10] Voice 1: Like, what do you rezone to?

[2:01:11] Voice 1: And the other thing, I mean, it is land use,

[2:01:14] Voice 1: and the structure of the dock is over water.

[2:01:18] Voice 1: So, you know, anyway, that's just an observation.

[2:01:24] Voice 1: The second one is good on you all for having a second meeting on March the 12th

[2:01:32] Voice 1: and just having perhaps a clearer idea of where we're going with this

[2:01:37] Voice 1: in terms of the timeline and first reading, second reading,

[2:01:42] Voice 1: so people can really appreciate that the input they're giving is influential.

[2:01:48] Voice 1: And thank you for taking so much care for dealing with these very complex issues.

[2:01:54] Voice 1: I mean, unless you're a planner, it's very hard.

[2:01:59] Voice 1: So thanks.

[2:02:00] Voice 1: Now I'll lower my hand.

[2:02:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you so much, Mick.

[2:02:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): i see that we have a jh uh again yes

[2:02:13] Voice 17: hello

[2:02:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): it's jim and i just

[2:02:16] Voice 17: um further to uh doc comments i

[2:02:21] Voice 17: i had one more comment to make and i believe earlier i forget who said it they said oh we

[2:02:28] Voice 17: don't want to look like piers island with all these docs well um that might be that person's

[2:02:34] Voice 17: opinion but as a boater I love seeing dogs and I don't think they're ugly and I think it's great

[2:02:41] Voice 17: and I think people who can have one and want one should I understand most people who aren't boaters

[2:02:48] Voice 17: could care less or don't want them but just bear in mind that there's lots of people who like them

[2:02:55] Voice 17: and like to look at them thank you thank

[2:02:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): you so much team I'm not seeing any more hands up at

[2:03:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): at this moment so we'll start responding to these questions and people of course can raise their

[2:03:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): hands and we'll carry on so anyone want to tackle any of these questions that came up

[2:03:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): hey

[2:03:14] Trustee McConchie (probable): uh maybe we can have planners dr robert uh say something so allison's concerned about a tiny

[2:03:20] Trustee McConchie (probable): home she wants to put a tiny home on her property in magic lake so she can house staff what what

[2:03:25] Trustee McConchie (probable): process would she need to do in order to make that happen yeah

[2:03:29] Voice 7: the the tiny home situation is

[2:03:32] Voice 7: certainly a topic and most local governments right now because certainly i we understand that it

[2:03:37] Voice 7: would be a solution for affordable housing so some of the or a number of issues with the tiny homes

[2:03:43] Voice 7: is that generally they're rolled in and they're on wheels it's not placed on a solid foundation

[2:03:49] Voice 7: and it's not until the tiny home is placed on a solid foundation then it would go through the

[2:03:54] Voice 7: process of getting a building permit and that would address health issues making sure was

[2:03:59] Voice 7: is connected to sewer or septic or water and so forth so you know somebody's putting a tiny home

[2:04:05] Voice 7: on the property putting on the foundation and going through those proper processes that's great

[2:04:09] Voice 7: the concern comes in is when you're putting it on the property and it's not on a proper foundation

[2:04:15] Voice 7: and it's not connected to sewer or water it's essentially like living in a in a recreational

[2:04:23] Voice 7: vehicle so there is some difficulties around tiny homes with that um robert i'm not sure if there's

[2:04:28] Voice 7: anything else i missed there that you may want to comment on no

[2:04:31] Voice 24: that was a great summary kim and

[2:04:32] Voice 24: just say in terms of zoning um yeah if if it's properly cited and connected to services then

[2:04:40] Voice 24: it's just treated as another dwelling like it could be a cottage or dwelling um i mean some

[2:04:45] Voice 24: local governments may be looking at adding tiny homes as an additional density if you like a

[2:04:50] Voice 24: permanent density um but um north pender hasn't hasn't gotten gotten to that point

[2:04:57] Voice 24: point in the into this stage anyway i

[2:05:01] Trustee Morrison (probable): think it would be really interesting to know how

[2:05:03] Trustee Morrison (probable): others are trying to address the tiny home issue because um i think and i think allison mentioned

[2:05:10] Trustee Morrison (probable): it but no i've mentioned it too over the years here is you know tiny homes potentially could

[2:05:15] Trustee Morrison (probable): could allow for some you know more affordable housing options lesser impact on the environment

[2:05:23] Trustee Morrison (probable): the big issue for us is that we wouldn't control the health and safety issues related to it which

[2:05:28] Trustee Morrison (probable): we don't need to control locally but somebody needs to i don't want i feel very uncomfortable

[2:05:32] Trustee Morrison (probable): with substandard or unsafe housing as an option that we're going to zone for without somebody

[2:05:37] Trustee Morrison (probable): looking out for that and that seems like crd right now but it's it's a bit of like a a crack

[2:05:44] Trustee Morrison (probable): that things are falling through so it'd be nice to know how others are are dealing with that and

[2:05:50] Trustee Morrison (probable): trying to figure that out with the crd yeah

[2:05:52] Voice 24: other other jurisdictions are having the same issues

[2:05:54] Voice 24: this is actually a really thorough i think it was a provincial um document that was uh done in the

[2:06:00] Voice 24: last few months on tiny homes and uh i might be able to dig that up and circulate yeah

[2:06:05] Voice 24: there is

[2:06:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): a manual i know the housing action task force here on salt spring is you know looking into

[2:06:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): to it as well because it is important as we look at sort of the ladder it's a you know it's a it's

[2:06:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): a very different structure than a rv has more you know value if you want to think of as you enter

[2:06:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): the housing market and work your way through and they're popular and they're everywhere so it's

[2:06:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): like we need to figure this out and so there i know here on salt spring we are trying to look

[2:06:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): into it and understand it there are csa standards and stuff that some communities are using for

[2:06:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): or the, you know, the standard to set for the safety standpoint. I think Terrace is

[2:06:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): one of those that has a tiny home community that they've allowed through a development permit area.

[2:06:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): So there are, there are starting to see communities having, you know, trying to find

[2:06:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): innovative ways to deal with this. And so it's an important conversation.

[2:07:00] Trustee McConchie (probable): Okay. If I can just, it makes sense. So Allie's got a business she wants to,

[2:07:04] Trustee McConchie (probable): and the part of the problem is she can't have anywhere economically to have their employees

[2:07:08] Trustee McConchie (probable): employees like live right and that's the case for a ton of businesses on this and it impacts

[2:07:13] Trustee McConchie (probable): economically in a major way because you've got essentially people that live here full-time

[2:07:18] Trustee McConchie (probable): right that are in a rental market that are getting squeezed and then you've got businesses that

[2:07:23] Trustee McConchie (probable): are trying to keep employees on that seasonal basis uh and then those those seasonal workers

[2:07:28] Trustee McConchie (probable): usually peace out and we need to think about creative ways of housing these folks and i know

[2:07:32] Trustee McConchie (probable): on south pender they've been dealing with poets cove and there's a bunch of trailers down there

[2:07:36] Trustee McConchie (probable): and they're having to build staff accommodation um so i think uh allison raises an important point

[2:07:41] Trustee McConchie (probable): and i think this is something that the capital regional district could really take a lead on

[2:07:45] Trustee McConchie (probable): as well i think the trustees support this uh initiative to uh allow for uh tiny homes and

[2:07:52] Trustee McConchie (probable): allow for some uh small buildings to be put in place but we have to work in collaboration with

[2:07:57] Trustee McConchie (probable): other governments to make that happen it would be curious to know what dave howe thinks i i don't i

[2:08:01] Trustee McConchie (probable): haven't seen or heard from him for a long time so it'd be it'd be important also allison to ask

[2:08:06] Trustee McConchie (probable): questions of our CRD director regarding that issue.

[2:08:09] Trustee McConchie (probable): I believe also there was a question from Mick regarding the rezoning.

[2:08:12] Trustee McConchie (probable): What's he rezoned?

[2:08:13] Trustee McConchie (probable): What would we rezone to have happen?

[2:08:15] Voice 7: Yeah, I'm happy to answer that.

[2:08:18] Voice 7: And I can bring up actually a map or a picture that might be helpful.

[2:08:22] Voice 7: Sharing my screen here.

[2:08:24] Voice 7: Hopefully everybody can see this.

[2:08:25] Voice 7: This is actually on South Pender.

[2:08:27] Voice 7: So this gives an idea of what it potentially could look like.

[2:08:31] Voice 7: so the area where the dock is located that area would be rezoned from water three that does not

[2:08:38] Voice 7: permit docks to water one that permits docks your upland portion you would retain your residential

[2:08:45] Voice 7: zoning so the upland portion where your house is that zone would zoning would not change it'd be

[2:08:50] Voice 7: retained and it's actually just the area around the dock that would be rezoned to water one that

[2:08:55] Voice 7: would permit a dock and

[2:08:59] Trustee Morrison (probable): maybe one other comment on the dock issue um because jane definitely was

[2:09:05] Trustee Morrison (probable): me who said i don't want this to look like piers island and that there definitely is my opinion

[2:09:09] Trustee Morrison (probable): um but um it's not only my opinion so we've had public letters in the state that docks are

[2:09:18] Trustee Morrison (probable): for folks um both from an ecological perspective and also from a rural character perspective in

[2:09:24] Trustee Morrison (probable): this space. Um, and I don't think it matters if you're a boater or not, but as the daughter of

[2:09:29] Trustee Morrison (probable): a mariner, I'm definitely into boats too. So, um, just in terms of thinking about why and how we

[2:09:38] Trustee Morrison (probable): want docs, we're not necessarily saying no docs. And I, if you walk away from this meeting with

[2:09:45] Trustee Morrison (probable): that understanding, you're completely misunderstanding. What we're saying is we're

[2:09:49] Trustee Morrison (probable): We're saying we want community input into where docks are and thoughtful location of

[2:09:55] Trustee Morrison (probable): docks.

[2:09:56] Trustee Morrison (probable): And the only mechanism that we have to be able to do that is through zoning.

[2:10:01] Trustee Morrison (probable): And so zoning around that would be water three, unless a community conversation is had about

[2:10:07] Trustee Morrison (probable): the dock.

[2:10:08] Trustee Morrison (probable): That's what we're saying.

[2:10:09] Trustee Morrison (probable): All right.

[2:10:10] Trustee Morrison (probable): So, and then related to the, you know, land use versus docks or over water, you know,

[2:10:19] Trustee Morrison (probable): It's a good point, Mick, because there is an issue that people wonder why the trust would be involved in docks.

[2:10:25] Trustee Morrison (probable): And there is like some people more broadly across the trust that I think are really questioning the land use name because the Islands Trust is actually not just the land.

[2:10:38] Trustee Morrison (probable): It's the waters in the trust area, too.

[2:10:41] Trustee Morrison (probable): The problem is that jurisdiction gets even more complicated when you get into the water here than it does on the land.

[2:10:47] Trustee Morrison (probable): and so um you know from our perspective it's a really complicated inter interface between that

[2:10:54] Trustee Morrison (probable): waterland connection um but nonetheless we have had feedback from first nations consultations too

[2:11:02] Trustee Morrison (probable): that um you know thoughtful like respectful community like conversations about docks are

[2:11:10] Trustee Morrison (probable): also important because they connect to the land and cultural resources there as well as ecological

[2:11:15] Trustee Morrison (probable): all right

[2:11:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): any other comments at this point yeah

[2:11:23] Trustee McConchie (probable): chair patrick it is 12 12 um it's a saturday and

[2:11:27] Trustee McConchie (probable): i'm wondering if uh we should just let folks know about our upcoming meetings uh because there's

[2:11:31] Trustee McConchie (probable): going to be a lot of opportunity for folks to have their say um not just by sending emails you can

[2:11:37] Trustee McConchie (probable): see in the chat box for those listening we want to hear your feedback uh we definitely want to hear

[2:11:42] Trustee McConchie (probable): what you think about this how to improve it uh we've heard some great suggestions today

[2:11:46] Trustee McConchie (probable): day. In the chat box are the email addresses for the South Pender and for the North Pender

[2:11:51] Trustee McConchie (probable): Trust Committee. We receive all that correspondence and review it. I believe we have an upcoming

[2:11:55] Trustee McConchie (probable): meeting on February 25th, which is a local trust committee meeting. If I've got my calendar

[2:12:00] Trustee McConchie (probable): correct. And we have a town hall during that segment of the meeting, at the very beginning

[2:12:05] Trustee McConchie (probable): of the meeting, where you can express your opinions on this land use bylaw review. We'll

[2:12:10] Trustee McConchie (probable): also have another community information meeting, excuse me, thanks Planner Stockdale, it's

[2:12:14] Trustee McConchie (probable): February 24th um we also have another community information meeting on March the 12th yes uh

[2:12:22] Trustee McConchie (probable): that's a Saturday it'll be similar to this one so folks like uh I heard Mick who's gonna think

[2:12:28] Trustee McConchie (probable): about this and people like Diane and all the folks that contributed to the thoughts today

[2:12:32] Trustee McConchie (probable): uh you have an opportunity to refine your arguments or more questions uh for the local

[2:12:36] Trustee McConchie (probable): trust committee to speak to just in a format similar to this so I just wanted to make that

[2:12:41] Trustee McConchie (probable): suggestion perhaps chair patrick that everyone can perhaps get on with their day unless there's

[2:12:46] Trustee McConchie (probable): something pressing that we need to discuss

[2:12:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): i see if well we did advertise this till 2 p.m is what's

[2:12:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): advertised on the website so i am trying to be fair to uh the the message that went out there

[2:12:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): and uh i i like you would love to get back to my day and i i think it's we're coming to a close to

[2:13:01] Trustee Patrick (probable): a wrap-up but i do see there's one more hand up and i'd like to uh let ann uh speak oh no hello

[2:13:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): Hello.

[2:13:10] Voice 4: Hello. Can you hear me? Yes. Well, I am the daughter of a mariner, the wife of a mariner,

[2:13:22] Voice 4: and I think that the application process for docks right now is sufficient. I don't think

[2:13:32] Voice 4: that the islands trust should be stepping outside their lane um i think the idea of the community

[2:13:45] Voice 4: having a chance to discuss dock applications um as we've seen in the past uh they can be unfair

[2:13:55] Voice 4: to the applicant uh and call and take decades to make a decision in some circumstances um the other

[2:14:06] Voice 4: comment that i have is on the website i know it's got nothing to do with the land use bylaw review

[2:14:12] Voice 4: but um the website is really poor in my opinion uh just changing something that says

[2:14:19] Voice 4: it's like at the top where it says what's happening to meetings and events so people

[2:14:26] Voice 4: aren't having to search for when the meetings you know uh through the website because it's quite

[2:14:34] Voice 4: extensive. My one question I have is with the chat during these meetings is I don't understand

[2:14:43] Voice 4: why you couldn't ask questions in the chat. All

[2:14:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): right is that all you're gonna right now?

[2:14:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you. No it's good. These are formats and as we proceed with learning I know for the

[2:15:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): there is a webinar version that does have a Q&A type thing and that's something we certainly

[2:15:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): could consider in the future if we're going to have to have another electronic community

[2:15:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): information meeting we'll we'll look at those options and discuss that as we decide the next

[2:15:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): ones seeing a few more names are now popping up I'm going to let's see I'm sorry I don't remember

[2:15:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): Peter now I'm trying to go back through my notes to see who has spoken I'm just going to go in the

[2:15:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): order that they're up in front of me for right now and so Jeff Green again oh Jeff Green has the

[2:15:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): let's see if you can speak Jeff can you take yourself off mute yes hello

[2:15:37] Voice 2: I'm fine now sorry I

[2:15:39] Voice 2: just I lost the unmute tab but I couldn't find it before and yeah the question I had earlier was

[2:15:46] Voice 2: again I support measures that help you know water permeability groundwater recharge

[2:15:54] Voice 2: what is are there definitions in the bylaw of what constitutes a permeable versus an impermeable

[2:16:02] Voice 2: material in a yard so clearly concrete blacktop would be impermeable or permeable impermeable

[2:16:10] Voice 2: sorry um is flagstone like so you don't have to answer these now but i think a definition

[2:16:16] Voice 2: um um and maybe it's there i am so uh that's one question the other one is i'm still curious about

[2:16:24] Voice 2: how the trust can use trade-offs on the square footage on a lot and I didn't understand that

[2:16:35] Voice 2: you can't sort of tamper with the building design so that was helpful but in dealing with housing

[2:16:41] Voice 2: affordability and this was one of my other points in an email I'd sent earlier was you know in I'm

[2:16:49] Voice 2: not suggesting that we would start developing laneway houses or those sorts of things but

[2:16:54] Voice 2: But if someone wanted to do that, is there a way where the trust can make allowances, I guess, for saying, OK, well, you're going to provide affordable housing or, you know, you know, obviously with strict measures because you don't want people using it like an Airbnb or something like that.

[2:17:12] Voice 2: but if someone was really trying hard to address our housing challenge, and it is a challenge,

[2:17:19] Voice 2: is there a leeway within the square footage requirement that would encourage people or

[2:17:26] Voice 2: allow people to do that? Thank you.

[2:17:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you. Peter Jones. Robin, if we could,

[2:17:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): okay, Peter, if you can take yourself off mute.

[2:17:50] Voice 5: Yes, thank you very much, Madam Chair.

[2:17:53] Voice 5: um i just a quick comment because i i haven't heard it come up yet yet um around docks and

[2:18:01] Voice 5: and the foreshore and and i the perspective i think for for many folks is actually public

[2:18:08] Voice 5: access and use and enjoyment in addition to environment or visual aesthetics or

[2:18:13] Voice 5: the you know a number of other uh concerns potentially but you know i think that the

[2:18:21] Voice 5: The challenge has been in the past, from my experience,

[2:18:24] Voice 5: is that provincial agencies,

[2:18:25] Voice 5: because of the scope of their jurisdiction,

[2:18:28] Voice 5: aren't very effective at public engagement

[2:18:31] Voice 5: or neighborhood at a neighborhood level.

[2:18:34] Voice 5: And so having a mechanism that is clear

[2:18:39] Voice 5: or that people can actually provide comments

[2:18:43] Voice 5: and get some feedback and get information,

[2:18:46] Voice 5: I think is a big step forward.

[2:18:48] Voice 5: my recollection of the discussions for example in Trincomalee from the 70s and onwards where

[2:18:55] Voice 5: there were many conversations amongst property owners about the relative balance and merits

[2:19:02] Voice 5: in on the dock question was it was really the the the question of public access and use and

[2:19:09] Voice 5: enjoyment of several limited bays that got public opinion to be coalescing around a mortgage system

[2:19:18] Voice 5: instead of individual docks and what we need is some sort of zoning both at a provincial and a

[2:19:27] Voice 5: local level to reinforce them thank you oh

[2:19:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): thank you very much peter i see jeff green again jeff i

[2:19:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): think just spoke i think jeff so allison sorry uh let's go to allison hello hello

[2:19:46] Voice 10: hi yeah um

[2:19:49] Voice 10: So another concern that I have, thank you so much for speaking to all this stuff.

[2:19:54] Voice 10: It's not an easy job you guys have, I really feel for you, is around trees, climate change,

[2:20:01] Voice 10: droughting conditions, and permits.

[2:20:05] Voice 10: I'm very worried that as it stands right now, people can cut down trees, they can buy a

[2:20:11] Voice 10: lot, clear cut, sell the wood and flip the property.

[2:20:15] Voice 10: There's nothing standing in the way of that.

[2:20:17] Voice 10: and just excessive tree cutting.

[2:20:20] Voice 10: I know everybody wants to clear their lots, et cetera.

[2:20:23] Voice 10: I'm definitely in favor of some sort of system

[2:20:26] Voice 10: where trees are evaluated before they're cut.

[2:20:32] Voice 10: I just want to know if I'm trying to get my head around

[2:20:36] Voice 10: if we become a municipality,

[2:20:38] Voice 10: if that would give you guys an easier road

[2:20:43] Voice 10: to making laws around that,

[2:20:46] Voice 10: because right now the machinery is incredibly slow about it and we can

[2:20:51] Voice 10: become a fire hazard very quickly and I'm very worried about that so please

[2:20:58] Voice 10: speak to that thank

[2:21:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): you Allison all right trustees I guess that's another

[2:21:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): group of questions here more don't know if there's what would anyone like to

[2:21:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): tackle you

[2:21:12] Trustee Morrison (probable): throw in a few thanks and you made me laugh my point in being a

[2:21:16] Trustee Morrison (probable): mariner's daughter is not to say that you know we think one way or the other just that um you know

[2:21:23] Trustee Morrison (probable): being a boater doesn't mean that we think one way or another either um so yeah i think we do need to

[2:21:30] Trustee Morrison (probable): think about this balance between um what comes up in community conversations and what becomes sort of

[2:21:38] Trustee Morrison (probable): a target sometimes um in community conversations and that i think is hopefully the balance that

[2:21:45] Trustee Morrison (probable): that we try to strike of, you know, listening to everything. I did actually want Robert and Kim,

[2:21:51] Trustee Morrison (probable): if you can comment, there was a comment that came up earlier that I had a question about,

[2:21:56] Trustee Morrison (probable): and it was around the idea of like the legal status of feedback from community, like that it

[2:22:04] Trustee Morrison (probable): had to be on the public record versus and counts being the way that we would make decisions,

[2:22:08] Trustee Morrison (probable): because that is not my understanding.

[2:22:12] Voice 24: Yeah. So the first part of that, anyone who submits

[2:22:15] Voice 24: anything in writing um yeah it's all public information it's it's filed it's becomes part

[2:22:21] Voice 24: of the public record when it goes to public hearing if you recall going having public

[2:22:25] Voice 24: hearings in the past um you had a big binder um physical binder in the past and more recently a

[2:22:31] Voice 24: kind of a pdf binder with every piece of correspondence is in that so everything's

[2:22:35] Voice 24: on the record and um yes there is in the lead up to a public hearing there is a formal comment

[2:22:42] Voice 24: comment period, but that's to sort of create that period in which people are submitting

[2:22:49] Voice 24: comments when the bylaw is going to public hearing.

[2:22:53] Voice 24: The decision makers, the trustees, it's up to you, the trustees, how you weigh the comments

[2:22:58] Voice 24: and how you put weight to them or how you allow it to influence your thinking.

[2:23:06] Voice 24: So something somebody says to you in a coffee shop could be a profound, sort of have a profound

[2:23:11] Voice 24: impact on your on your deliberation yeah

[2:23:14] Trustee Morrison (probable): thank you for that because I think that that clarification

[2:23:18] Trustee Morrison (probable): is really important we tend to get these like giant streams when people are really upset about

[2:23:23] Trustee Morrison (probable): something where they get everyone motivated you know around we see this around the trust policy

[2:23:27] Trustee Morrison (probable): statement right now and like frankly that does nothing like really like it's way more impactful

[2:23:34] Trustee Morrison (probable): for individual people to write personalized specific narratives about how a bylaw will

[2:23:39] Trustee Morrison (probable): affect them or not or their community how they feel about it than to just do form letters because

[2:23:44] Trustee Morrison (probable): I don't count I'm not going one two three I decide this one two three I decide that I'm weighing it

[2:23:50] Trustee Morrison (probable): relative to the sign relative to like a long-term sort of plan for our community and um and if you

[2:23:57] Trustee Morrison (probable): don't agree with that then run for the trust and like you can weigh it so um I'm not a politician

[2:24:03] Trustee Morrison (probable): I'm a public servant I don't care if I get re-elected that's up to the community if we do

[2:24:08] Trustee Morrison (probable): do a good job or not. So I just do need people to think about that is that it's not strictly

[2:24:14] Trustee Morrison (probable): a count situation. I really appreciate the conversation today and all the thoughts because

[2:24:20] Trustee Morrison (probable): they help us think about how people are learning and thinking in community. But often what happens

[2:24:27] Trustee Morrison (probable): is we get emails or conversations by people that worry about being intimidated in community or

[2:24:32] Trustee Morrison (probable): are worried that their voice that is counter to some of these very loud narratives,

[2:24:38] Trustee Morrison (probable): that they don't want to deal with the public flack.

[2:24:42] Trustee Morrison (probable): They live in a small community and don't want to deal with that kind of negative pushback.

[2:24:47] Trustee Morrison (probable): And so it's a dilemma that we face where not everybody wants their comment

[2:24:53] Trustee Morrison (probable): in public on Facebook in a community meeting like this.

[2:24:56] Trustee Morrison (probable): And yet we still have to hear it and weigh it.

[2:24:59] Trustee Morrison (probable): So I just kind of want to name that into the space because it, and it's a dilemma because not we're not all hearing each other transparently which is frustrating from my perspective, would be wonderful if we had such a generous community that we could hear

[2:25:12] Trustee Morrison (probable): each other, and not take pot shots at each other. So that would be wonderful.

[2:25:17] Trustee Morrison (probable): Yeah, do you any comments on that banner, I had one or two other things I wanted to comment on.

[2:25:24] Trustee McConchie (probable): you can go ahead i i just uh uh if you want to finish your train of thought trustee mars

[2:25:29] Trustee Morrison (probable): yeah the other the other

[2:25:31] Trustee Morrison (probable): things were on a slightly different tangent just around some of the like the

[2:25:35] Trustee Morrison (probable): tree thing it's going to take us off on a different tangent um so uh i did really um maybe

[2:25:43] Trustee Morrison (probable): kim if we can also pin and just um know about the definitions in the permeable because i don't know

[2:25:49] Trustee Morrison (probable): that we defined that and i thought i've had a couple really good points about like trying to

[2:25:53] Trustee Morrison (probable): think about like how are we defining that so that's very what constitutes that to people

[2:25:59] Trustee Morrison (probable): because one of the things i'd like to avoid is i'd like the bylaws to be clear enough that people

[2:26:03] Trustee Morrison (probable): don't have to go through some giant expensive application procedure if it's not needed right

[2:26:08] Trustee Morrison (probable): so um i don't want to necessarily create more paperwork for people i just want it to be clear

[2:26:13] Trustee Morrison (probable): what the the rules are aren't yeah

[2:26:16] Voice 7: yeah and we don't have a definition currently in the land

[2:26:18] Voice 7: use bylaw it's just based on wording from the local government so we can

[2:26:22] Voice 7: look into that a little

[2:26:22] Voice 7: bit more so

[2:26:23] Trustee Morrison (probable): we might want to think that and the other thing that came up earlier was about timeline

[2:26:26] Trustee Morrison (probable): i think nick had been about timelines for first and second reading and so to try and like come

[2:26:32] Trustee Morrison (probable): to some of those timeline potentially or at least put it on the discussion for the march meeting

[2:26:37] Trustee Morrison (probable): um so that that can give community members some clarity on where the timeline is going with this

[2:26:42] Trustee Morrison (probable): that

[2:26:42] Voice 15: would be helpful um and then the tree oh go ahead ben don't

[2:26:51] Trustee McConchie (probable): finish your train of thought

[2:26:52] Trustee McConchie (probable): please it's you're on a roll um

[2:26:54] Trustee Morrison (probable): so the tree thing i guess would would be um you know really

[2:27:00] Trustee Morrison (probable): misunderstood issue in the trust i every time i think about trees it makes my blood pressure rise

[2:27:07] Trustee Morrison (probable): and i'm a pretty chill person um and i think the confusions that we're having there is it's a

[2:27:13] Trustee Morrison (probable): balance right like you know i had a dangerous tree sitting like 10 feet from me like we're not out to

[2:27:21] Trustee Morrison (probable): like try and stop people from cutting a dangerous tree or cutting trees generally on their property

[2:27:27] Trustee Morrison (probable): what the concern is I think is what Allison named is like people coming in and mowing an entire

[2:27:32] Trustee Morrison (probable): area and so like what even the rule is on pender around trees is something that we would hopefully

[2:27:40] Trustee Morrison (probable): have a conversation as as a community we currently don't have the authority from the province to

[2:27:46] Trustee Morrison (probable): regulate tree cutting straight out. We potentially have some authority to do it related to recharge

[2:27:52] Trustee Morrison (probable): areas just for slower infiltration and preserving the sort of water capacity to allow recharge and

[2:28:01] Trustee Morrison (probable): seepage in those areas. But that's something too that will come up when William Shovel comes back

[2:28:07] Trustee Morrison (probable): with some of the pieces around the groundwater sustainability work. So I don't really even know

[2:28:14] Trustee Morrison (probable): know what those look like yet. But right now, from my understanding, what's being asked for

[2:28:18] Trustee Morrison (probable): broadly across the trust is not that there is a specific tree cutting, or forest management is the

[2:28:25] Trustee Morrison (probable): way I would frame it, forest management strategy, but that we would have the right to think about

[2:28:31] Trustee Morrison (probable): what that could be locally. Right now, we don't even have that authority. So and I agree, it's

[2:28:38] Trustee Morrison (probable): tied up in that issue of how we actually manage forests. So we don't have fuel loads in ways that

[2:28:43] Trustee Morrison (probable): potentially put us at huge risk for forest fires especially in these southern for our islands

[2:28:48] Trustee Morrison (probable): um and that we can like hopefully as a community decide maybe we don't want clear cuts um in the

[2:28:56] Trustee Morrison (probable): like magic lake area or or elsewhere or just think about that as a community you know and

[2:29:03] Trustee Morrison (probable): that's something we can't even do right now so that would be my

[2:29:06] Voice 15: answer yeah

[2:29:11] Trustee McConchie (probable): just really briefly

[2:29:12] Trustee McConchie (probable): I think, you know, comments from Diane, Logan and Burdette speak to a broader concept that needs that needs to be improved in local governance.

[2:29:20] Trustee McConchie (probable): And it's that we need to start thinking more about what it's like for the average citizen to engage with their local government.

[2:29:28] Trustee McConchie (probable): I feel like currently the way it's structured, it's that the government comes down and tells you what to do.

[2:29:35] Trustee McConchie (probable): whereas we need to approach things more from the experience of the applicant and the experience of

[2:29:42] Trustee McConchie (probable): the constituent who goes on the website doesn't quite get where the thing is and that doesn't

[2:29:49] Trustee McConchie (probable): follow these issues like we follow we need to hear more from people like and more from diane

[2:29:54] Trustee McConchie (probable): so we can improve the efficiency of our local governance because yeah we are asking essentially

[2:29:59] Trustee McConchie (probable): in this

[2:29:59] Trustee McConchie (probable): I don't know.

[2:30:00] Trustee McConchie (probable): bylaw review, to say, hey, we're going to ask for potentially applications to go to a trust

[2:30:06] Trustee McConchie (probable): committee, which involves a level of bureaucracy. But these two things need to work parallel.

[2:30:14] Trustee McConchie (probable): We need to increase our democratic process by allowing for more community input with regards

[2:30:22] Trustee McConchie (probable): to these issues. We also need to improve the bureaucracy and improve the efficiency of the

[2:30:28] Trustee McConchie (probable): the local government at the same time now with regards to yeah there's times where an application

[2:30:33] Trustee McConchie (probable): goes sideways and i i have tremendous sympathy for what ann and mike have had to go through for

[2:30:40] Trustee McConchie (probable): the past uh decade uh their lessons are their their experiences are a great lesson for local

[2:30:46] Trustee McConchie (probable): governance on how to improve things so that's those are this is a big big project that doesn't

[2:30:52] Trustee McConchie (probable): just uh stop at this particular bylaw review so i just wanted to mention that thanks

[2:30:57] Trustee McConchie (probable): all

[2:31:00] Voice 14: right thank you i see the a new speaker sarah miles hello sarah hello can you hear me

[2:31:11] Voice 14: yes

[2:31:12] Voice 9: hi everyone thanks for organizing this meeting uh there's lots of good points um i have one

[2:31:21] Voice 9: very specific question that i want to ask um while we're here and have the staff

[2:31:28] Voice 9: um yeah all the points you're making just right now about um you know the the personal impact on

[2:31:34] Voice 9: people um I have I have some thoughts about that um I've been following this land use bylaw review

[2:31:42] Voice 9: process uh well let me introduce myself first my name is Sarah Miles I've lived on North Pender

[2:31:48] Voice 9: for 30 years and my grandma bought property here in the 60s um and my mom uh started and ran Pender

[2:31:56] Voice 9: courier for a long time so I know the island fairly well and it has changed a lot in the last

[2:32:04] Voice 9: 10 years there's definitely a lot of growth and I know this creates a ton of pressure

[2:32:10] Voice 9: you know on our resources here we're really fortunate to live here it's it's a great place

[2:32:16] Voice 9: um this this review has taken a lot of my time um you know I I know it's really hard with COVID

[2:32:27] Voice 9: it and I think you guys are doing a good job to to try and engage people I know a lot of people

[2:32:33] Voice 9: are engaged even though they might not necessarily speak out they they have opinions and it's tricky

[2:32:42] Voice 9: because everything's in draft status right now so you know I think people are trying to understand

[2:32:48] Voice 9: what those drafts mean formulate a response and and get it to you in in an acceptable manner to

[2:32:56] Voice 9: hopefully be considered um and throughout this process it's really difficult to for any business

[2:33:03] Voice 9: to really plan anything because you just don't know what the result will be and so I've booked

[2:33:10] Voice 9: four hours of my day-to-day to be here um the agenda I was a little bit surprised at how

[2:33:17] Voice 9: vague or broad it was just to discuss this review this is a you know a year and a half

[2:33:23] Voice 9: and there's um a lot of changes um potentially being considered so I know it's tricky to have

[2:33:33] Voice 9: um you know open discussion versus it might like some people might be more interested in the floor

[2:33:40] Voice 9: area versus a different part of this review and and knowing when that might be discussed on the

[2:33:46] Voice 9: agenda would help um some people um you know if I knew you were going to discuss my thing at

[2:33:53] Voice 9: at one o'clock I would come there then but it's all important so it's I don't know it's it's a

[2:34:00] Voice 9: on how you manage that um my question I'll get to my point now before I

[2:34:10] Voice 9: talk your ear off for too long is about fuel storage and I'm just hoping you can help me

[2:34:16] Voice 9: with a bit of direction um i found some the work safe act um i thought i'd seen something

[2:34:25] Voice 9: more locally about the requirements um about fuel storage like big tanks um not just jerry cans but

[2:34:35] Voice 9: you know big fuel tanks what are the requirements for citing those in relation to um domestic wells

[2:34:42] Voice 9: wells. And just to add to that, about my point, I do want to say that I think the groundwater review

[2:34:52] Voice 9: is probably more important that or as important as a lot of this stuff. And your point about

[2:35:01] Voice 9: bureaucracy, Ben, I attended the Islands Trust webinar the other night about the March 1 deadline

[2:35:07] Voice 9: for non-domestic water users to have required to have a license that deadline's coming up and

[2:35:14] Voice 9: people are going to be affected by that especially if they don't get an application in

[2:35:19] Voice 9: and this comment made by staff in that meeting was that it was sort of like yeah well people

[2:35:28] Voice 9: better get their applications in before March 1st we hope the system doesn't crash

[2:35:33] Voice 9: ha ha ha and it just seemed like um and they also said before that that the amount of staff

[2:35:41] Voice 9: resources that have been required to address the new the requirements of this new water

[2:35:47] Voice 9: sustainability act and to process all these applications they don't really have enough staff

[2:35:53] Voice 9: to to process all the applications so people are having to wait and again it's if you're affecting

[2:36:00] Voice 9: protecting people's business. You know, every day they have to wait for staff to process their

[2:36:07] Voice 9: applications. It's, you're costing businesses a lot of money. So I'm sure you take that into

[2:36:14] Voice 9: account, but I just want to make sure that it's something that's being considered. And if you

[2:36:20] Voice 9: could answer my question now, I'm done about fuel storage and wells, that would be great. Thank you

[2:36:25] Voice 9: very much for for all of your work and taking the time all

[2:36:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): right thank you uh sarah um i don't know

[2:36:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): if you kim do you want to yeah

[2:36:34] Voice 7: i i actually had to look it up to tell you the truth i didn't have

[2:36:38] Voice 7: that information at the top of my head so um in the land use bylaws it stands right now there's

[2:36:44] Voice 7: section or subsection 3.7.6 so 3.7.6 and it states that no commercial storage of petroleum

[2:36:54] Voice 7: petroleum pesticide or other chemical is permitted within 30 meters of any domestic water source or

[2:37:02] Voice 7: well or within 15 meters of a natural boundary of a lake stream sea and so forth so that is

[2:37:08] Voice 7: currently in the land use bylaw all

[2:37:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): right and um all right i see we have another couple of

[2:37:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): repeat speakers here i'm gonna let ann go

[2:37:21] Voice 14: next because uh hello ann again um

[2:37:29] Voice 4: oh uh thanks

[2:37:30] Voice 4: I was just wondering, did I miss it somewhere that we're, are we talking about the other parts of the land use bylaw review today?

[2:37:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): If you have, if you'd like to discuss anything that's on the land use bylaw that you can on this review project.

[2:37:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): It

[2:37:48] Voice 4: is, you know, there's a

[2:37:49] Voice 4: number of things.

[2:37:49] Voice 4: I

[2:37:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): was just wondering

[2:37:49] Voice 4: about the industrial portion, the industrial portions of the land use bylaw review.

[2:37:59] Voice 4: you uh

[2:38:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): who would i mean of sort of where we are what we've yeah

[2:38:08] Voice 4: landed

[2:38:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): on and where i guess i'll

[2:38:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): look to uh planner stock to look that's it

[2:38:14] Voice 4: just it wasn't in the it wasn't in the um powerpoint

[2:38:18] Voice 4: presentation no

[2:38:20] Voice 7: as i mentioned the powerpoint was really just the hot topics that we've been

[2:38:23] Voice 7: receiving a lot of communication about uh they're certainly the ltc is reviewing the industrial

[2:38:29] Voice 7: industrial sections of the land use bylaw and they're combining the two zones into one and

[2:38:34] Voice 7: making some site specific zoning changes as well so all that information is on the website but if

[2:38:40] Voice 7: you have any specific questions i'm happy to answer any questions but it is as part of this

[2:38:47] Voice 7: project okay

[2:38:49] Voice 4: um i just have another comment it's the piers island thing

[2:38:55] Voice 4: we're never going to look at like piers island uh just because of weather and that's one of the

[2:39:03] Voice 4: reasons why bedwell harbor is where it is browning is where it is and thieves bay is where it is

[2:39:11] Voice 4: is because um you know on when you go down canal on road on south pender you don't see a whole

[2:39:19] Voice 4: whole bunch of docks coming out of there just because the weather's so bad in the winter or

[2:39:23] Voice 4: Hope Bay and Port Wash a lot of the boats you know leave in the winter time and come into

[2:39:30] Voice 4: Browning and Bedwell just so I wouldn't worry about we're going to look like Piers Island

[2:39:37] Voice 4: thanks

[2:39:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): well thank you it's also ferry access versus uh not having ferry access makes a

[2:39:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): difference too with yeah there's okay um trustees how are we doing i see we have a couple uh we've

[2:39:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): got uh jeff again so jeff thanks

[2:39:57] Voice 2: um i just wanted to go back i'd ask like i think um we're all

[2:40:01] Voice 2: asking an awful lot of questions and it's hard to check them all off but i'd ask the question

[2:40:07] Voice 2: about the justification for the 2500 square foot um initial category and going upward and um you

[2:40:17] Voice 2: know i uh my suggestion is that you know it's probably complicated but i think that's information

[2:40:23] Voice 2: that would be useful to share with the community because um i've talked to friends and that's one

[2:40:30] Voice 2: of the things is why 2500 square feet what's so magical about that so uh you know if there's not

[2:40:37] Voice 2: an answer today i think that would be an interesting fact to address uh for you know

[2:40:43] Voice 2: the march meeting for example thank you well

[2:40:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): thank you jeff and the other is to make suggestions too

[2:40:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): as uh it's a two-way street but what are you you know thinking is a reasonable so

[2:40:55] Trustee McConchie (probable): yeah yeah i mean the i believe the numbers were proposed by trustee morrison so trustee

[2:41:00] Trustee McConchie (probable): morrison would be more likely to speak to that but i mean for me i'm i'm uh flexible on this

[2:41:06] Trustee McConchie (probable): number because a lot of it has been taken into account uh the average size of a canadian home

[2:41:12] Trustee McConchie (probable): which is i believe 2200 square feet if i'm not mistaken uh or prevent that could be a provincial

[2:41:18] Trustee McConchie (probable): average jeff i'm not quite sure uh but that is certainly a good point uh the way i've approached

[2:41:24] Trustee McConchie (probable): the maximum house size is just to enable the local trust committee to have a say uh if a house

[2:41:30] Trustee McConchie (probable): becomes enormous or or you know like people can apply but the number itself uh for sure needs to

[2:41:37] Trustee McConchie (probable): be discussed and i'm curious to know what trustee morrison what you think yeah

[2:41:41] Trustee Morrison (probable): and you know putting

[2:41:42] Trustee Morrison (probable): numbers on the table gets everybody like engaged in a deep way so like even having any kind of

[2:41:48] Trustee Morrison (probable): number in play helps people weigh in one way or another and it's it's it's helpful to know um so

[2:41:55] Trustee Morrison (probable): So I think having the two different residential areas is going to be helpful between Magic Lake and other residential zones, because it could be that, you know, houses and even just acreage, though, the way that we're thinking about doing it, of having different acreage sizes and scales will help with that a little bit.

[2:42:16] Trustee Morrison (probable): it but I guess there is a question like when you look at the biggest houses on Pender and say you

[2:42:23] Trustee Morrison (probable): know the top 20 houses that are big it is there a sort of a breaking point where there's like

[2:42:30] Trustee Morrison (probable): you know this is what the average community house is and they have done this analysis on South

[2:42:35] Trustee Morrison (probable): Pender but we haven't done it on North Pender and I think frankly it's because it's hard to get a

[2:42:39] Trustee Morrison (probable): hold of the data they literally went through the assessment data and like made a database which is

[2:42:44] Trustee Morrison (probable): is different when you're dealing with you know a couple hundred houses on south pender versus what

[2:42:47] Trustee Morrison (probable): we have up here um but going through and looking at actually what is the current housing stuff

[2:42:53] Trustee Morrison (probable): look like um and if we're really wanting to maintain a you know pender and sort of the feel

[2:43:00] Trustee Morrison (probable): that we have on pender then maybe we could bring our bylaws in line with that and if people want

[2:43:06] Trustee Morrison (probable): houses bigger than that they have to ask for them and it has to be a process by which they like

[2:43:10] Trustee Morrison (probable): like, you know, engage, and maybe they have to do all the other things that, you know, you mentioned,

[2:43:14] Trustee Morrison (probable): they have to show that they're going to do, you know, energy conservation, housing building,

[2:43:19] Trustee Morrison (probable): but then the average person doesn't have to go through that, like more complex process.

[2:43:23] Trustee Morrison (probable): Not that I don't think we should encourage that anyway. But like, you know, they don't have to,

[2:43:28] Trustee Morrison (probable): you know, have a special permit to build their house, if they're doing it in sort of the normal

[2:43:32] Trustee Morrison (probable): size of houses in this area. And so I think that's, that's part of the idea. We have had a

[2:43:37] Trustee Morrison (probable): a couple things brought up today and and there's there's one that actually hasn't been brought up

[2:43:41] Trustee Morrison (probable): today around house size is about home offices you know lots of people are working in either studios

[2:43:46] Trustee Morrison (probable): or offices and accessory buildings or other things on their properties um and we want to encourage

[2:43:51] Trustee Morrison (probable): that like people work at home they have art studios they have workshops like those are things

[2:43:55] Trustee Morrison (probable): that are part of their community too um so part of trying to balance that is you know what amount

[2:44:03] Trustee Morrison (probable): amount of house size will allow for secondary suites will allow for living space will allow

[2:44:08] Trustee Morrison (probable): for office space, you know, 2500 ish is from all the feedback we've had in the last year and a half

[2:44:14] Trustee Morrison (probable): is getting a little bit more in line potentially, with where that is, especially in the Magic Lake

[2:44:20] Trustee Morrison (probable): area. Maybe that's, you know, that much bigger when you get out into bigger acreages. So you

[2:44:25] Trustee Morrison (probable): know, any feedback like that is helpful. We do want to give people we have the ability to do

[2:44:31] Trustee Morrison (probable): secondary suites in our bylaws and we do want to be able to allow that idea of secondary suites

[2:44:36] Trustee Morrison (probable): and buildings for a lot of the reasons that have been said today all

[2:44:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): right thank you i see a new

[2:44:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): name here um stephenson that uh hello

[2:44:55] Voice 19: can you hear me yes no no it's ann stevenson sorry oh hi

[2:45:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): i'm sorry

[2:45:00] Voice 19: um i was just wondering on the website um the draft bylaws are they were done in december

[2:45:09] Voice 19: and there's been two trust meetings since December and there have been

[2:45:14] Voice 19: discussions from the trustees about making changes giving directions to

[2:45:18] Voice 19: staff but the bylaws remain in the same draft form and I was just wondering when

[2:45:26] Voice 19: would we see further drafts put on the website because I feel we're talking

[2:45:31] Voice 19: about old draft bylaws that I'm pretty sure both trustees have asked to be

[2:45:37] Voice 19: be amended. I mean, one specific example is multifamily zoning behind the driftwood. Is

[2:45:45] Voice 19: that staying in the draft bylaw that we'll be discussing for March? Or is that, I understand

[2:45:51] Voice 19: there were some discussions at one of the meetings that the representative for the property owner

[2:45:56] Voice 19: would be having a meeting with the trustee, and it may or may not stay in the draft bylaw.

[2:46:01] Voice 19: But anyway, I was just wondering, the bylaws, the draft bylaws are not keeping up to date

[2:46:07] Voice 19: with what seems to be being discussed but anyway that's that's my question thank

[2:46:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): you ann i don't

[2:46:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): know if uh planner stockdill if you want to sort of answer the pro is a process yeah

[2:46:22] Voice 7: for the the

[2:46:23] Voice 7: draft bylaw on the website is only updated when the agenda is released so as the bylaw wasn't

[2:46:29] Voice 7: included on the um january agenda there were no updates posted so a new an updated bylaw will be

[2:46:37] Voice 7: posted in two weeks time and in terms of the rental housing yes that is something that the

[2:46:46] Voice 7: trustees and the property manager will be discussing and hopefully the trustees will

[2:46:51] Voice 7: provide an update hopefully for the the meeting on February 24th and then we can if the LTC gives

[2:46:59] Voice 7: direction to staff to include those in the draft bylaw then staff will do that yeah

[2:47:04] Trustee McConchie (probable): and like it was

[2:47:05] Trustee McConchie (probable): said at the thanks that planner started like like it was said at the public meeting um and the uh

[2:47:11] Trustee McConchie (probable): you know uh dorothy came representing cardinal management and indicated a desire to uh to build

[2:47:16] Trustee McConchie (probable): a campsite and maintain some rental housing so we're we're going to work with uh them to to find

[2:47:22] Trustee McConchie (probable): out uh you know now that we've engaged them we we need to uh discuss amongst ourselves at the public

[2:47:26] Trustee McConchie (probable): meeting um whether or not we're how we're going to agree with that or not and i believe that so

[2:47:31] Trustee McConchie (probable): So that'd be the February 24th meeting.

[2:47:33] Trustee McConchie (probable): We'll discuss that.

[2:47:33] Trustee McConchie (probable): Is that right?

[2:47:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yes.

[2:47:36] Trustee McConchie (probable): Okay, perfect.

[2:47:37] Trustee McConchie (probable): Yeah.

[2:47:37] Trustee McConchie (probable): So hopefully that answers.

[2:47:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right.

[2:47:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you.

[2:47:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right.

[2:47:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): We're continuing on repeats area of Diane Logan again.

[2:47:52] Voice 6: Hi, just a couple of questions that sort of came up.

[2:47:55] Voice 6: If you, could you put in something in the bylaws saying

[2:47:59] Voice 6: that a home built with a foundational structure

[2:48:03] Voice 6: that is not got any like walls around it would not be counted in the square footage of the house

[2:48:11] Voice 6: so then if anybody wanted to develop that basement in the future they would have to go for a permit

[2:48:17] Voice 6: to do that and then you would have to deal with that as in in the local trust area so that that's

[2:48:26] Voice 6: just um yeah just a suggestion about that and can it be done uh

[2:48:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): thank thank you for that suggestion

[2:48:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): and uh i think that's one of the things we mentioned earlier that we want to look at and

[2:48:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): make sure we're clear on all right uh sarah miles again hi

[2:48:53] Voice 9: thanks i just want to clarify um is it so

[2:48:56] Voice 9: So is it correct that today we're discussing the draft bylaw dated December and this bylaw,

[2:49:09] Voice 9: this draft bylaw has already been revised or it will be revised at the next trust meeting?

[2:49:18] Voice 9: It just seems a bit confusing to be spending so long talking about something that doesn't

[2:49:24] Voice 9: actually reflect where we're

[2:49:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): at in the process.

[2:49:26] Voice 9: process?

[2:49:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): So I can, we are still drafting the bylaw. There has been no readings given to this

[2:49:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): bylaw. So it still remains in draft and it is a work in progress and it is sort of changing. And

[2:49:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): because there's so many multiple different steps occurring, it's, it's kind of developing. At some

[2:49:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): point we will give a first reading, which signals them we're going to get into the engagement and

[2:49:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): public consultation about it, but it's a, it's an evolving draft. And I don't know if Robert,

[2:49:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): Robert, if you can.

[2:49:55] Voice 24: So as it's an iterative process,

[2:49:58] Voice 24: the LTC various meetings considers particular issues

[2:50:02] Voice 24: and they make decisions

[2:50:03] Voice 24: and give staff direction to change the bylaw.

[2:50:07] Voice 24: So the version of the bylaw that's on the website

[2:50:10] Voice 24: has incorporated the decisions

[2:50:11] Voice 24: that the local trust committee made up until December.

[2:50:15] Voice 24: Yes, they had a meeting in January,

[2:50:16] Voice 24: but the land use bylaw wasn't on that agenda.

[2:50:19] Voice 24: So the next time it's coming up on the agenda

[2:50:21] Voice 24: will be the February meeting.

[2:50:23] Voice 24: so the version of the bylaw that's on the web page has all of the decisions that the local

[2:50:29] Voice 24: trust committee has made to date is that correct kim yes

[2:50:33] Voice 7: and i should also note that i included

[2:50:35] Voice 7: this is why i've included different dates of the bylaw so community members in the ltc can go along

[2:50:41] Voice 7: and see when the changes were made as well so i've included all the versions of the the draft bylaw

[2:50:49] Voice 7: as how it's evolved over the past uh eight months and that's

[2:50:55] Voice 7: great okay that

[2:50:55] Voice 9: makes sense thank you

[2:50:56] Voice 7: i

[2:50:56] Voice 9: think the part that i'm finding difficult is that i i think this was discussed in january 24

[2:51:03] Voice 9: on january 24th but we don't have the minutes yet to know what was discussed it

[2:51:12] Voice 7: wasn't on the

[2:51:12] Voice 7: agenda for the january 24th it

[2:51:15] Voice 24: may have been brought up at the town hall perhaps certain

[2:51:17] Voice 24: certain issues were brought up at the town hall but

[2:51:21] Voice 7: no decisions were made on this project at

[2:51:24] Voice 7: the 24th meeting was it the 24th pardon me the 27th yeah okay

[2:51:33] Voice 14: thanks thank you all right i think

[2:51:39] Voice 14: we're seeing

[2:51:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): uh jeff is uh back again trustees i'll keep looking at you at what point the

[2:51:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): conversation is uh you know being repetitive but jeff oops jeff disappeared no um and i think we

[2:52:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): just spoke with uh diana so diana your hand is still up are you wanting to talk to us again

[2:52:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): i guess uh robin if you can hi diane yes

[2:52:11] Voice 6: i have another question um the question goes to the the

[2:52:14] Voice 6: review with the commercial lots on mckinnon road for downsizing the the build out on that and the

[2:52:20] Voice 6: the comments that were made earlier in regards to the fact that we do need to have some vacation

[2:52:25] Voice 6: properties on the island and I'm wondering if it's possible to go out to the community and put

[2:52:32] Voice 6: some sort of a bid on people who would like to have their property be a vacation rental and then

[2:52:40] Voice 6: bring it to the community and come up with an approval process for people to take that away

[2:52:46] Voice 6: from a dense area out into the community so that some people could make their properties available

[2:52:52] Voice 6: as short-term vacation rentals you have some now that are in the temporary use process and you know

[2:52:58] Voice 6: you have some feel of how that's going with the community if some of those could maybe be

[2:53:03] Voice 6: transferred over or designed so we have a zone where there could be some short-term vacation

[2:53:09] Voice 6: rentals um it's much more um in line with the island to have people come and stay in an area

[2:53:17] Voice 6: that's very very rural um as opposed to something that's really dense such as poets cove and

[2:53:23] Voice 6: currents anyway um look forward to seeing if that's possible all

[2:53:30] Voice 14: right thank you good suggestion

[2:53:32] Voice 14: i'm not seeing any more hands coming up this has

[2:53:41] Trustee McConchie (probable): been a very good

[2:53:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): conversation oh

[2:53:42] Trustee McConchie (probable): sorry go ahead

[2:53:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): Can

[2:53:43] Trustee McConchie (probable): I just offer some thoughts there, Chair Patrick, just briefly?

[2:53:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yes, you may.

[2:53:46] Trustee McConchie (probable): The number one thing that I don't want to see happen in my time as trustee is if we do not have broad general support for our revisions to the land use bylaw.

[2:53:59] Trustee McConchie (probable): So much so that there is an election where other trustees come in in the next election and reverse all of the decisions we've made as a result of the trust after our hard work here.

[2:54:12] Trustee McConchie (probable): uh we uh as a trust committee you know i don't even know how many meetings we've this is our

[2:54:18] Trustee McConchie (probable): like six community information meeting regarding this uh we've been dealing with the land use

[2:54:23] Trustee McConchie (probable): bylaw review started at the beginning of our term it was one of the major projects so this

[2:54:27] Trustee McConchie (probable): has been three and a half years um and certainly uh we've been hearing from some of the smartest

[2:54:33] Trustee McConchie (probable): people uh you know around that obviously don't want to get involved in government but certainly

[2:54:39] Trustee McConchie (probable): want to have their say and there's and i really want to thank all the great suggestions we've

[2:54:43] Trustee McConchie (probable): heard from uh brian mcmurray uh jean kathy sandra mary diane mike peter jeff allison uh and ann

[2:54:50] Trustee McConchie (probable): stevenson and amber dead of course um these are all great suggestions uh so i want to ensure that

[2:54:56] Trustee McConchie (probable): when my term is over as a trustee that this land use bylaw it does the best to preserve and protect

[2:55:02] Trustee McConchie (probable): our community without being an onerous bureaucratic nightmare that could potentially

[2:55:11] Trustee McConchie (probable): could be perceived as happening. So I really want to stress that I'm not going to be comfortable

[2:55:18] Trustee McConchie (probable): putting a bylaw forward to first reading or second or third unless we have very broad general

[2:55:27] Trustee McConchie (probable): support for this. So I look forward to hearing from everyone in the community. And I look forward

[2:55:33] Trustee McConchie (probable): to hearing from also members of the public who didn't speak today, but watched. We are available

[2:55:43] Trustee McConchie (probable): via email. I have a Twitter account, a Facebook account, you know, Deb is available via text. I

[2:55:50] Trustee McConchie (probable): know works really well for us as well. Feel free to engage with us. We're very interested in hearing

[2:55:56] Trustee McConchie (probable): hearing what you have to say.

[2:55:57] Trustee McConchie (probable): And I appreciate you, Chair Patrick,

[2:55:59] Trustee McConchie (probable): facilitating a great conversation for the Island.

[2:56:02] Trustee McConchie (probable): And I appreciate the staff's work

[2:56:04] Trustee McConchie (probable): to present all these issues in a clear, concise way.

[2:56:07] Trustee McConchie (probable): And your thoughts too, Trustee Morrison.

[2:56:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): All

[2:56:12] Voice 14: right, I see we have

[2:56:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): one more person

[2:56:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): has put their hand up.

[2:56:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): That's Sandra.

[2:56:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): Hello, Sandra.

[2:56:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): Hi,

[2:56:20] Voice 12: just a comment.

[2:56:22] Voice 12: Could we get all of the email addresses again, please?

[2:56:25] Voice 12: Just so we can send our emails off to you guys as well.

[2:56:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): absolutely we'll repeat that process here in just a just a moment so in the chat box

[2:56:35] Trustee McConchie (probable): aren't they in the chat box still

[2:56:36] Voice 12: just the just the uh kim's email but i would like the trustee

[2:56:44] Voice 12: emails as well please sure i i was on the website and like for the project and i'm just not seeing

[2:56:51] Voice 12: where to email on the project website project part of the website okay

[2:56:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): um yeah i think there's

[2:57:01] Trustee Patrick (probable): well there's you can email us individually so uh deb's put her email up there um ben i'm just

[2:57:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): l patrick it's at the islands trust as well um and also the south info uh at uh islands trust

[2:57:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): localtrust.bc.ca. And then your information would be shared with all of the local trust

[2:57:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): committees so that we're all seeing the same comments as they're coming in. And as this

[2:57:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): process moves into, sorry, got a cat that of course has to jump up. There'll be more meetings

[2:57:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): scheduled and clear. And one of the ways to keep up to date is to subscribe to the website. I know

[2:57:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): We can always say there's improvements that need to be made to the website.

[2:57:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): We know it is a work in progress.

[2:57:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): But if you subscribe to the website and pick North Pender as one of the items that you

[2:57:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): want to be notified of, all community information meetings and other meetings will come to your

[2:58:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): inbox and you'll be able to keep up to date and not miss anything as we go forward.

[2:58:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): Laura?

[2:58:12] Trustee Morrison (probable): Yes.

[2:58:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yes.

[2:58:12] Trustee Morrison (probable): Contact information too, for Ben and I is actually inside the Pender phone book,

[2:58:16] Trustee Morrison (probable): just inside the very beginning under local government. There's like a section for Owens

[2:58:20] Trustee Morrison (probable): Trust and we're listed there as well. If you can't find it, if you, and if you don't remember

[2:58:24] Trustee Morrison (probable): our last names, it's all there.

[2:58:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): That's right. And so I think with that, I also want to make sure

[2:58:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): before we leave today, our minute taker who hides behind here and takes these notes and

[2:58:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): and knows all of you so closely is Shannon Braford.

[2:58:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I think she's going to be devoting her time more

[2:58:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): to the full-time job she has and the minute taker.

[2:58:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): And we're going to be seeing a new minute taker

[2:58:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): in the future.

[2:58:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I can't tell you how much I appreciate

[2:58:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): having Shannon in the background, taking the notes.

[2:58:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): She knows you and captures our notes.

[2:59:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): She almost thinks it or knows it before we say it.

[2:59:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): It's amazing.

[2:59:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): We're going to miss you, Shannon,

[2:59:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): and great to have you in the role

[2:59:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): that you play on the island

[2:59:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): and is vital and important.

[2:59:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): And we're very grateful

[2:59:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): and hope to see you again.

[2:59:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): Maybe you'll attend one of the meetings

[2:59:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): and make comments

[2:59:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): instead of being a minute taker.

[2:59:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): We'll be in trouble.

[2:59:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right.

[2:59:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): So with process here,

[2:59:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): our next regular meeting is on,

[2:59:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): what did we say that was?

[2:59:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): Sorry, I've had so many dates in front of me.

[2:59:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): Our next regular meeting is?

[2:59:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): the 24th 24th and it's

[2:59:39] Voice 7: all online on zoom yes

[2:59:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): so on the 24th is our next regular meeting and then

[2:59:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): the next community information meeting will be on march 12th which is a saturday and in the meantime

[2:59:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): please feel free to to make your comments and uh it's important to us that the when we do get around

[2:59:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): down to

[3:00:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): getting this ready for first reading that we've done a lot of work and we want it to be

[3:00:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): close and uh and there will still be that whole process after first reading uh that will have to

[3:00:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): proceed through the readings community information meetings and public hearing so lots of opportunities

[3:00:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): still to come and i really appreciate everyone coming out today and your input has been uh well

[3:00:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): received and a good good thought for us and look forward to the next steps with that i guess we're

[3:00:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): going to wrap up and thank you everyone thank you to the staff for coming into work today on a

[3:00:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): saturday really appreciate it and uh and we can all go enjoy at least it's not raining

[3:00:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): thank you all right thank you everyone have a fabulous day all right bye