Islands Trust Council regular meeting, September 21, 2022

[0:00:01] Voice 3: Yes.

[0:00:02] Voice 7: And if I shift now, can you see the change?

[0:00:07] Voice 7: Fantastic. Okay, so I'll move us back to the questions right now.

[0:00:13] Voice 5: Should we be concerned that there's three of us in the governance committee?

[0:00:18] Voice 4: I don't know.

[0:00:21] Trustee Middleton: No, we're not a quorum so sorry.

[0:00:24] Trustee Middleton: I'm sorry. Yeah.

[0:00:28] Voice 7: No, I actually don't. Robert, are you aware of the membership of this group?

[0:00:32] Voice 7: Yes.

[0:00:35] Voice 3: Trustee Fenton, Peterson, Thorne, Middleton, Allen, and Rockefeller.

[0:00:38] Voice 7: Yeah. So we'll await the arrival of a few other people.

[0:00:45] Voice 7: So I don't think Cameron Thorne, was he in the meeting today?

[0:00:49] Voice 3: No.

[0:00:49] Voice 7: Was

[0:00:50] Voice 3: Tim Peterson and Doug Fenton?

[0:00:53] Voice 7: He was, and Trustee Fenton was on the phone.

[0:00:56] Voice 7: So we'll see if he finds his way to

[0:00:59] Voice 3: trustee Petters Peterson is just joining now.

[0:01:04] Voice 7: All right, so if you keep an eye if you have an attendee list Robert if you keep an eye on it I think trustee Fenton will likely come in by phone.

[0:01:11] Voice 7: You can find his way in are

[0:01:15] Voice 6: on the real governance committee, because there is four of us here.

[0:01:19] Trustee Middleton: That's true.

[0:01:20] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, there's a quorum I think.

[0:01:22] Voice 6: Yeah, so

[0:01:23] Voice 6: we can get going.

[0:01:24] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, it's a it's a public meeting is that okay that there's.

[0:01:27] Trustee Middleton: yeah I think it's because it's a public meeting that's because we represent the

[0:01:31] Trustee Middleton: government's committee now I

[0:01:34] Voice 7: suspect it's fine is there's no decisions being

[0:01:39] Voice 7: made here this is

[0:01:40] Voice 7: a conversation to inform so just

[0:01:46] Voice 6: mentioned to the

[0:01:55] Voice 3: trustees in attendance it is being live streamed right now and recorded thank

[0:02:00] Voice 7: you all right so i'm here as your facilitator just to help keep you on track for the time we have to

[0:02:07] Voice 7: work through the uh the questions in front of you here um i have as needed on some resources i can

[0:02:13] Voice 7: bring on screen i've got the rfd here and then for the inter from our website i have the presentation

[0:02:19] Voice 7: from great northern and the report itself should that be helpful i can click to those resources

[0:02:24] Voice 7: if you need them so back to the questions um one of the first things for us to discuss is who once

[0:02:31] Voice 7: we've once you've had this conversation who who would like to report out to council are

[0:02:37] Voice 7: any other any volunteers to report out on the summary of

[0:02:40] Voice 5: course well mr trustee middleton

[0:02:44] Voice 5: i

[0:02:46] Trustee Middleton: was going to volunteer trustee allen but

[0:02:48] Trustee Middleton: i mean i'm happy to speak to if you want but i'm totally happy if

[0:02:55] Trustee Middleton: anybody else wants to you're

[0:02:58] Voice 5: far more eloquent

[0:03:01] Trustee Middleton: well then i

[0:03:02] Trustee Middleton: i i can i can do it then sure thank you for your vote of confidence

[0:03:12] Trustee Middleton: all

[0:03:14] Voice 7: right so then may as your facilitator suggest you discuss number one here what priority

[0:03:19] Voice 7: recommendations from the governance report you wish the governance committee to focus on um i

[0:03:30] Voice 6: if i recall correctly there was a recommendation around determining capacity of the gulf islands

[0:03:52] Trustee Middleton: I was going to

[0:03:55] Voice 7: say, do you like a verb on that, like determining or assessing or topic

[0:03:59] Voice 7: generally?

[0:04:03] Voice 6: I mean, I don't know if we can determine, but I mean, it was an interesting concept

[0:04:08] Voice 6: that I thought needed following up on just with the capacity of the islands in regards

[0:04:14] Voice 6: to groundwater and such.

[0:04:15] Voice 6: So I guess determining or assessing, yeah.

[0:04:19] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, I think it's a good point.

[0:04:21] Trustee Middleton: i think what they were saying is if we want if we have a preserve and protect mandate and the idea

[0:04:26] Trustee Middleton: is obviously protection of a certain land area on these islands what are the constraints beyond

[0:04:32] Trustee Middleton: which protection is is not possible and what they're finding in the ocps is that that's really

[0:04:39] Trustee Middleton: not defined i mean here on saturn we have i think it's a somewhat subjective def determination that

[0:04:45] Trustee Middleton: no more than 2 000 people can live here but that i don't know that that's certainly not based on any

[0:04:50] Trustee Middleton: kind of science i know that so i think their point is a good i mean it's a huge topic it's a huge

[0:04:56] Trustee Middleton: issue but as trustee rockefeller says i think it's a very important recommendation yeah

[0:05:03] Voice 6: i guess it

[0:05:03] Voice 6: struck with me also because of the islands trust conservancy report offers that graph with um

[0:05:08] Voice 6: ecosystem health and just uh how close some of the islands were at the threshold or over it at

[0:05:15] Voice 6: this point and so i thought perhaps that you know has some relationship there yeah that's good

[0:05:23] Voice 5: actual is this a recommendation that has a number next to it from the consultants because i can't

[0:05:30] Voice 5: find it i

[0:05:32] Trustee Middleton: think i think it was sort of enshrined in the you know they sort of broke the report

[0:05:38] Trustee Middleton: down really into two big sections and one was the land use planning section and uh basically

[0:05:43] Trustee Middleton: the measures to determine success in terms of the efficacy or effectiveness of the land

[0:05:48] Trustee Middleton: use planning undertaken said that this was like a really important set of criterias to

[0:05:56] Trustee Middleton: make a judgment from determining the carrying capacity.

[0:06:00] Trustee Middleton: So I think it was sort of like intertwined throughout the recommendations in the land

[0:06:07] Trustee Middleton: use planning section, if I'm not mistaken.

[0:06:11] Voice 5: Sorry.

[0:06:12] Voice 5: sorry I have concerns here because I was going to bring this up and when we had

[0:06:17] Voice 5: the policy statement I think it was the arm of the law group or something that

[0:06:25] Voice 5: had noted that any mention of carrying capacity was removed from our policy

[0:06:30] Voice 5: statement review and I just want to clarify as that happened because I was

[0:06:35] Voice 5: going to bring that up at another time separate from this governance thing but

[0:06:40] Voice 5: it has

[0:06:43] Voice 4: been removed i

[0:06:45] Trustee Middleton: think it was an objection to the term the specific term not necessarily the

[0:06:49] Trustee Middleton: concept like carrying capacity as a maybe an overly colonial concept of how many people can

[0:06:56] Trustee Middleton: the land bear it doesn't necessarily have a reference to ecosystem health or otherwise

[0:07:01] Trustee Middleton: but i think if we just use carrying capacity as like a shorthand for health of the island's

[0:07:07] Trustee Middleton: ecosystem or what can the island's ecosystem sustain to be in you know symbiosis versus

[0:07:12] Trustee Middleton: collapse i think that's if i'm not mistaken that's what the consultants and i think that's what you

[0:07:17] Trustee Middleton: trustee rockefeller mean right it's not specifically carrying capacity it's not as

[0:07:22] Voice 6: specific i'm i'm not thinking it's going to come up with a specific um number it was more um i was

[0:07:28] Voice 6: curious how it would relate to the trust ecosystem integrity graph as well as the recommendations

[0:07:34] Voice 6: recommendations from the report yeah

[0:07:37] Voice 5: no I'm totally I just for this by the way I will bring

[0:07:41] Voice 5: it up can I bring up I was just I thought we're just going to come up with recommendations so I

[0:07:44] Voice 5: basically was going to say that and also I kind of skipped to you know my one my answer to number

[0:07:52] Voice 5: one is also to do with number two and three and four and like what is achievable what is not and

[0:07:56] Voice 5: um so I was just looking at recommendations regarding committees um if I may oh I guess

[0:08:06] Voice 5: i should ask trustee rockefeller is that the only recommendation you'd or priority you wanted

[0:08:13] Voice 5: no

[0:08:13] Voice 6: i just want to make sure i share a time with everyone else so i'm happy there thanks okay

[0:08:18] Voice 5: so

[0:08:19] Voice 5: i was actually talking about like so excuse me can i talk now or not oh

[0:08:25] Voice 2: i was just going to chime in

[0:08:27] Voice 2: on the carrying capacity because one of the objections i keep hearing is that it's uh

[0:08:31] Voice 2: uh it's anthropocentric and um and that that's you know that's perhaps not the the best way

[0:08:40] Voice 2: to refer to to you know what we're the object of the trust is trying to achieve you know preserve

[0:08:47] Voice 2: and protect uh anyway just a minor point go ahead it

[0:08:52] Voice 5: doesn't answer for seeming that it's

[0:08:53] Voice 5: landscape we've human beings have affected the world

[0:08:57] Voice 2: well no anthropocentric anyway just being

[0:09:00] Voice 2: you know focused on on the human the human population rather than the

[0:09:05] Voice 2: totality of you know the ecosystem plants animals etc it's just one of the

[0:09:12] Voice 2: objections I've heard for the term carrying holistic

[0:09:15] Voice 5: so um like I have an

[0:09:23] Voice 5: issue is I wasn't sure when to bring it up but in terms the whole idea with the

[0:09:27] Voice 5: The recommendation three and one regarding memberships of committees.

[0:09:35] Voice 5: They're talking about increased committees but reduced memberships.

[0:09:37] Voice 5: And I was really alarmed by Rogan's committee having 11 members and people right, you know, January of the last term joining.

[0:09:45] Voice 5: And, you know, I will bring this up if I get reelected that this is ridiculous.

[0:09:49] Voice 5: They should have joined at the beginning and that's it.

[0:09:51] Voice 5: It's kind of saying, well, you're not doing the right job and we're going to come and make it better.

[0:09:55] Voice 5: and and I had to leave earlier in the term because of some constraint and I

[0:10:00] Voice 5: didn't know I could have joined I could have joined two months after that so I

[0:10:04] Voice 5: hope we have deal with this because I have real concerns about and even yet I

[0:10:09] Voice 5: think committee should be seven members just as per the Governance Committee

[0:10:15] Voice 4: yeah I just

[0:10:17] Voice 5: don't understand why I had so many sorry is

[0:10:22] Voice 7: there somewhere I can

[0:10:23] Voice 7: note that within these four questions here as terms of a recommendation um

[0:10:27] Voice 5: i guess it would

[0:10:27] Voice 5: be under numbers in terms of increasing committees but reduced membership that was under number three

[0:10:33] Voice 5: that was a number three recommendation they had

[0:10:35] Trustee Middleton: um it would go into number one i think because it

[0:10:39] Trustee Middleton: recommendation and

[0:10:41] Voice 5: it also it involves the regional balance and even trustee interest

[0:10:45] Voice 5: and expertise in terms of being put on committees as well um so i just thought these are achievable

[0:10:57] Voice 5: and yeah stop talking recommendation

[0:11:01] Voice 7: re committee membership and what was the second piece there

[0:11:05] Voice 7: alex um

[0:11:07] Voice 5: regional balance and uh you know i don't know whether trustee interest and expertise

[0:11:13] Voice 5: because you know at the very beginning i don't know what everybody's background is i just found

[0:11:17] Voice 5: out people just found out that i had a degree four months ago i mean you know what i mean it's sort of

[0:11:24] Voice 5: yeah but i think there should be definitely a regional balance yeah yeah i

[0:11:32] Voice 2: tend to agree with

[0:11:35] Voice 2: the the regional balance thing i i think that's uh certainly an important goal to strive for

[0:11:40] Voice 2: um with the appointment model of course that may be more difficult to achieve

[0:11:47] Voice 2: Steve. You know, but I think it's definitely a goal, a goal to strive for. I'm not so caught

[0:12:01] Voice 2: up about the experience expertise, although I understand why the consultants were talking

[0:12:08] Voice 2: about that. But I think that, you know, functionally we have a trust council comprised of whatever

[0:12:16] Voice 2: whatever trustees are elected.

[0:12:17] Voice 2: And I just, I don't know how we would go about

[0:12:21] Voice 2: assessing expertise and experience,

[0:12:26] Voice 2: you know, as a council to try and parse out

[0:12:31] Voice 2: who should be appointed to those.

[0:12:35] Voice 2: And

[0:12:35] Voice 5: I agree, I didn't mean experience and expertise.

[0:12:38] Voice 5: I don't want that in there.

[0:12:39] Voice 5: I really wanted interest.

[0:12:40] Voice 5: Interest is, you know, if you have interest,

[0:12:42] Voice 5: you will do research

[0:12:44] Voice 5: and you will make yourself knowledgeable.

[0:12:45] Voice 5: and the committee member took part was to do with the number of members in the

[0:12:50] Voice 5: committee I'd like that noted and

[0:12:54] Voice 7: then again please Alex like the committee

[0:12:56] Voice 5: membership you noted it was about the membership how many yeah

[0:13:00] Voice 7: so

[0:13:01] Voice 5: I just it

[0:13:01] Voice 5: doesn't say that still could mean anything and that um it's more trustee

[0:13:06] Voice 5: interest in it yeah that's pretty much that's what Peterson said

[0:13:13] Voice 7: our trustee

[0:13:16] Voice 7: middleton are my notes here sufficient for you to report out on that yeah

[0:13:19] Trustee Middleton: i mean that that was

[0:13:21] Trustee Middleton: definitely a recommendation is to look at the committee structure uh look at how i mean is it

[0:13:29] Trustee Middleton: the most effective way of building a committee when brand new trustees look at the flip chart

[0:13:34] Trustee Middleton: paper after a little bit of orientation and make a choice probably not um we've talked about

[0:13:40] Trustee Middleton: executive we won't say anything more about that but that was the

[0:13:45] Trustee Middleton: recommendation just in terms of like how executive has chosen what the process is

[0:13:51] Trustee Middleton: but even the committee structure as we've sort of wrestled with this for a

[0:13:54] Trustee Middleton: long time is is would counsel be better served with a focus on working

[0:14:00] Trustee Middleton: committees as in should we have a reconciliation committee or an First

[0:14:06] Trustee Middleton: first nations uh committee that you know carries the lead on and keeps a closer integration with

[0:14:14] Trustee Middleton: our reconciliation efforts and and i i think while that might not be a specific recommendation in the

[0:14:21] Trustee Middleton: report it was it was certainly talked about and likewise they recommended a marine focus committee

[0:14:28] Trustee Middleton: just given the importance of marine issues throughout the trust area uh and so they i

[0:14:33] Trustee Middleton: think i think they should be looked at i mean i'm not i'm not saying a blueprint here but um

[0:14:39] Trustee Middleton: i also think just in terms of priorities and is it doable i think russ may say no but i think

[0:14:48] Trustee Middleton: it may the report said yes it might be come down to a battle of the lawyers here which is

[0:14:54] Trustee Middleton: the secretariat function for the for trust council as a way of um coalescing the leadership of

[0:15:01] Trustee Middleton: council and then facilitating that direction through the cao to to to staff and they're

[0:15:09] Trustee Middleton: thinking usually it would just be a much more effective and efficient way of council showing

[0:15:14] Trustee Middleton: leadership because our ceo wouldn't have to manage both the politic political side as well as the

[0:15:19] Trustee Middleton: staffing side now that may be viewed as a controversial uh statement or an impossible ask

[0:15:26] Trustee Middleton: But they seem to feel that it was a pretty, it would be a pretty key innovation that would really the council's effectiveness.

[0:15:38] Voice 6: Trustee Middleton, I was going to ask a question.

[0:15:42] Trustee Middleton: Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah.

[0:15:43] Voice 6: Oh, I just, that's, I think those are, I like the idea of the topic specific committees.

[0:15:48] Voice 6: I was just wondering, we have a lot of discussion around budget all the time and wouldn't more committees be quite onerous on the budget?

[0:15:55] Voice 6: And I feel like Trust Council now has severely hacked the budget down during this term.

[0:16:02] Voice 6: And I just don't know how future Trust Councils would understand or, you know, they'd have to increase the budget and possibly even staff FTEs to facilitate all these committees.

[0:16:16] Voice 6: And I feel like the Trust Council is constantly asking for more, but reducing all the time.

[0:16:22] Trustee Middleton: No fair point. Exactly.

[0:16:23] Trustee Middleton: that i mean it is i guess a bit of a paradigm shift i mean i guess one thing would be perhaps

[0:16:28] Trustee Middleton: trust council would be a little bit shorter if the committees were doing sort of the

[0:16:35] Trustee Middleton: the bulk of the work to lead to decisions but maybe not i mean council's going to want to

[0:16:40] Trustee Middleton: talk about things before voting on it i mean you raise a good point like there's a budget

[0:16:45] Trustee Middleton: implication there that i don't have an answer to i

[0:16:49] Voice 6: know in a way i feel like there needs to be

[0:16:50] Voice 6: policies around um ensuring there's enough capacity for requests from trust council but

[0:16:57] Voice 6: that's an aside anyways i was i am supporting topic specific committees but i also recognize

[0:17:02] Voice 6: that it could be an impossibility given trust council's um budget issues yeah

[0:17:08] Voice 5: i agree trust

[0:17:08] Voice 5: brought up because i remember back in i think it was graham frazier of the gulf islands alliance

[0:17:13] Voice 5: many moons ago brought up why don't you just have two committees a green one and a blue one green

[0:17:20] Voice 5: for land and blue for water and i thought man that's why can't we just do that you know

[0:17:24] Voice 5: especially when we you know we're getting down to just having one or two items on our you know

[0:17:30] Voice 5: to-do list maybe we could just be do that because you know as that's just rockefeller's each member

[0:17:36] Voice 5: is going to get 150 dollars aren't they at every meeting and uh yes it could be way over um i'd

[0:17:42] Voice 5: like to add another one of two is that the standing trust council membership i really

[0:17:48] Voice 5: think we should look at getting you know rotating first nations representative at every trust

[0:17:53] Voice 5: council maybe it could be elected within their group separate and also somebody from the province

[0:18:00] Voice 5: and i don't know whether that would be a politician or would that be a staff member but um

[0:18:04] Voice 5: i think that would be a really good step in um engaging with other other agencies you know and

[0:18:11] Voice 5: as well as really look at and then another one is in terms of advocacy um which she recommended

[0:18:18] Voice 5: and that was uh well like strengthening our brand i hate that word brand or onboarding and all those

[0:18:24] Voice 5: horrible things but uh strengthening who we are what's our why you know as opposed to advocating

[0:18:31] Voice 5: on what was that advocating on you know topics that really aren't in our purview and i get that

[0:18:39] Voice 5: from so many people how

[0:18:40] Voice 7: would you like me to characterize that alex like folk more focused

[0:18:44] Voice 7: advocacy?

[0:18:46] Voice 5: Yes, more focused advocacy and also putting out, you know, we should be in the news

[0:18:50] Voice 5: way more. Instead of just sending letters out to various ministries, we should actually have

[0:18:54] Voice 5: somebody, you know, that actually gets contacts to the newspapers and lets them know what we're

[0:18:59] Voice 5: doing and what we're deciding. Instead of having to go into trust council website or something,

[0:19:03] Voice 5: we should be way out there. I should be able to read about Islands Trust more often in the news,

[0:19:12] Voice 5: frankly because what we do is we do some amazing things out there and we don't they don't always

[0:19:17] Voice 5: hear it so okay

[0:19:20] Voice 7: alex for your first two points here i've noted them under number two right here

[0:19:24] Voice 7: i'm not is that where

[0:19:25] Voice 7: you intended this is the recommendations considered achievable

[0:19:28] Voice 7: and i captured it as

[0:19:29] Voice 7: rotating first nations representative and provincial representative

[0:19:32] Voice 7: is that accurate for your comment okay thank you okay

[0:19:36] Voice 4: yeah

[0:19:38] Voice 2: i was just gonna um i was just gonna say

[0:19:40] Voice 2: my reading of the recommendations on committees was that indeed they are suggesting fewer members

[0:19:50] Voice 2: but more potentially more committees i totally take trustee rockefeller's point on

[0:19:56] Voice 2: how to budget that um and um and i just want to agree with the you know some method of trying to

[0:20:10] Voice 2: to get some First Nations representation on council.

[0:20:14] Voice 2: I'm not sure what exactly that looks like,

[0:20:17] Voice 2: but I think that's a really a positive step

[0:20:20] Voice 2: to try and achieve.

[0:20:25] Voice 7: Okay, should I note anything further, Tim,

[0:20:28] Voice 7: or you're just voicing in support of what's there?

[0:20:31] Voice 2: I'm just voicing in support.

[0:20:33] Voice 2: Interrupt, Trustee Rockefeller, interrupt.

[0:20:36] Voice 6: I just had a comment about the provincial representative

[0:20:38] Voice 6: on trust council.

[0:20:40] Voice 6: I don't remember reading that in the report,

[0:20:44] Voice 6: but possibly i missed it um i mean i feel like if anything the province is always just a referral

[0:20:49] Voice 6: for us and i would never want a provincial representative from a trust council but maybe

[0:20:54] Voice 6: that's just my perspective so

[0:20:59] Voice 7: do you as a group want to leave this here as an achievable

[0:21:03] Voice 7: recommendation to implement i i wouldn't necessarily

[0:21:07] Voice 2: list it as achievable myself

[0:21:09] Voice 2: sell because i don't like

[0:21:11] Voice 2: the provincial representative because it's entirely up to

[0:21:15] Voice 2: the province so would

[0:21:16] Voice 7: you like to put it down number three under number three you can remove

[0:21:18] Voice 5: it i'm not i'm not totally owning it i have no issues okay

[0:21:23] Voice 7: well you have number four here which

[0:21:25] Voice 7: is you would require more information of study if it's a topic you think the governance committee

[0:21:28] Voice 5: yes that we could put that there for sure not the uh keep the native one first nations up there

[0:21:35] Voice 5: though

[0:21:35] Voice 7: first nations up under which is achievable yes okay

[0:21:39] Voice 7: and provincial representative needs more

[0:21:41] Voice 7: study yes

[0:21:42] Voice 5: okay okay

[0:21:45] Voice 7: one piece you have not discussed is what in the report might not

[0:21:48] Voice 7: be achievable is there anything there that you'd want to dig in on uh

[0:21:51] Voice 2: i was just gonna uh address

[0:21:54] Voice 2: one thing that we we uh as the governance committee that we looked at that alex may or may

[0:21:59] Voice 2: not have been aware of which is that we did look at the um the procedure for electing the executive

[0:22:06] Voice 2: Mayor Mrakas, Executive Committee, to see if it there could be a delay and we got.

[0:22:10] Voice 2: Mayor Mrakas, We got fairly clear direction back that that we actually don't have any legal room on that it's you know the Act says that it.

[0:22:19] Voice 2: Mayor Mrakas, It has to be done as soon as practical after the after the election, which essentially means the first meeting of trust Council for that.

[0:22:27] Voice 2: i would put that squarely there at this point i mean perhaps it's something we could advocate

[0:22:32] Voice 2: for changes in the the act but it seems pretty clear that's not achievable at this point

[0:22:39] Voice 7: shall i note that

[0:22:40] Voice 7: there tim um sure uh

[0:22:43] Voice 7: immediate change executive committee elections

[0:22:49] Voice 2: sure

[0:22:51] Voice 7: now you mentioned it might change down the road do you want to add that to the further study

[0:22:55] Voice 7: section as well is that something this group pushes um

[0:22:57] Voice 2: i i think i think it could be added

[0:23:00] Voice 2: to further study uh clearly there's have to be uh some engagement with the province and willingness

[0:23:05] Voice 2: to look at that from the province but uh it seemed like it was a common uh thing amongst certainly

[0:23:14] Voice 2: especially new trustees that that process felt awkward and rushed and you know another thing

[0:23:22] Voice 2: we did discuss is that uh although the regional districts um do the same thing and elect their

[0:23:29] Voice 2: chairs pretty much at the first meeting after the election their chairs only they re-elect

[0:23:37] Voice 2: uh every year of the term so they're not locking in a chair for the whole term the way we are

[0:23:44] Voice 2: presently doing that executive committee so i wonder if that's so you know if we're going to

[0:23:50] Voice 2: pursue that i would think that that would be one way to look at it uh is to is the

[0:23:56] Voice 2: the consideration of elections,

[0:24:00] Voice 2: at least partway through the term.

[0:24:04] Voice 2: Could I,

[0:24:05] Voice 2: somebody's

[0:24:06] Voice 5: bogged my brain.

[0:24:09] Voice 5: When we were first elected in our first meeting,

[0:24:12] Voice 5: were we given any information from any of the people

[0:24:15] Voice 5: that were interested in being chair before we went to that,

[0:24:17] Voice 5: our first meeting?

[0:24:20] Voice 7: Yes.

[0:24:20] Voice 5: People were encouraged to

[0:24:22] Voice 7: submit biographies,

[0:24:23] Voice 7: which were circulated.

[0:24:25] Voice 5: Yes, they were.

[0:24:25] Voice 5: So we did get something.

[0:24:26] Voice 5: I was just trying to remember,

[0:24:27] Voice 5: was that before the meeting or at the meeting or okay so we do get something yeah and we're

[0:24:33] Voice 7: undertaking that with us again now yeah

[0:24:35] Voice 5: um

[0:24:39] Voice 4: what's the other thing let's see do

[0:24:47] Voice 7: you want me to go to

[0:24:49] Voice 7: the report at all or is there anything i can do to support your discussions here we've got about

[0:24:52] Voice 7: another uh 15 minutes i believe i

[0:24:55] Trustee Middleton: think there were two two important things from the the report

[0:24:59] Trustee Middleton: Oh,

[0:25:00] Voice 7: actually, we had until 4.15. Maybe I'll text over because it says here from 4.30 to 4.15. Maybe I'll text and see what time we

[0:25:11] Trustee Middleton: are. Peter, say what

[0:25:12] Voice 7: time we were expected back?

[0:25:13] Trustee Middleton: 4.45, he said.

[0:25:15] Voice 7: Okay, thank you. I left that group early. Okay, so you've got another

[0:25:18] Voice 7: 15 minutes.

[0:25:19] Voice 7: Yeah,

[0:25:20] Trustee Middleton: we were behind schedule a little bit. So I think there were two things. One is they talked about advocacy to become, I guess, strengthened in the sense of it viewed more in the sense of a public affairs approach to advocacy as in we decide what are we trying to influence?

[0:25:40] Trustee Middleton: What is our long-term campaign for influence, including direct politician-to-politician contact, influencing key people, and actually sort of measuring the effectiveness of what we do in order to kind of refine our tools?

[0:25:58] Trustee Middleton: um and so i think what you know you could argue that means not just seeing ourselves as a branch

[0:26:08] Trustee Middleton: of well not a branch but an agency of the ministry an independent corporate entity that actually has

[0:26:14] Trustee Middleton: um has objectives it wants to achieve and engages the politicians from that perspective rather than

[0:26:22] Trustee Middleton: as a sub-branch of the ministry and so it would almost be like taking the view if you're like

[0:26:29] Trustee Middleton: uh either you know using two opposite examples the sport fishers association or or the uh canadian

[0:26:38] Trustee Middleton: parks and wilderness society and engaging with politicians at that level to try to affect the

[0:26:44] Trustee Middleton: change that you you want to see so it's a much more quote-unquote political way of engaging in

[0:26:51] Trustee Middleton: advocacy um and of course that framework would need to be built and it would need to be resourced

[0:26:59] Trustee Middleton: and it's it's a kind of a different way than the trust has operated i don't know how it's

[0:27:05] Trustee Middleton: a priority but i think i think the the something that maybe is a more of a priority which is to

[0:27:12] Trustee Middleton: talk again about the strategic planning process so that the organization can can be aligned but

[0:27:18] Trustee Middleton: i mean it's linked to advocacy because it's like what do what do we want to do what are our

[0:27:21] Trustee Middleton: objectives what do we want to measure how our success is and the strategic plan they talked

[0:27:27] Trustee Middleton: talked about that being embodied in a corporate plan they use the word corporate just because

[0:27:32] Trustee Middleton: it's a you know we're a corporate body um which would make the budgeting exercise which would

[0:27:39] Trustee Middleton: would actually create the budget right we were actually not creating a budget and then coming

[0:27:45] Trustee Middleton: up with well what money do we have available for strategic initiatives it's kind of a much more

[0:27:50] Trustee Middleton: integrated way of doing it I don't have the tools to do it I don't know what they are that they've

[0:27:54] Trustee Middleton: talked about them there are professionals who do and i think that would be a priority to

[0:27:59] Trustee Middleton: to engage to because we spend a lot of time and creative energy staff and trustees on the

[0:28:05] Trustee Middleton: strategic plan but in my feeling it that as as with the the consultants it doesn't integrate

[0:28:11] Trustee Middleton: with the budget as well as it should because we also then replicate that energy in creating the

[0:28:16] Trustee Middleton: budget and really if we're an aligned organization moving with our limited resources that the two

[0:28:22] Trustee Middleton: would be part of the same process so what that process is how it works i have no idea that would

[0:28:28] Trustee Middleton: be the work of the committee we'd have to get expertise and some options there so i i see that

[0:28:34] Trustee Middleton: as a priority entirely within house we don't need anybody else's permission this is completely

[0:28:39] Trustee Middleton: something we can do to make ourselves more effective so i'd put that right up there myself

[0:28:45] Trustee Middleton: i don't know what you guys think okay

[0:28:49] Voice 7: so um this is recommendation so i've right now i've noted

[0:28:52] Voice 7: that and trustee middleton you have to tell me if i captured it correctly here um do you want that

[0:28:57] Voice 7: here under recommendations considered achievable would you also like it like it reflected up as

[0:29:02] Voice 7: like a priority for the committee i

[0:29:04] Trustee Middleton: would think it's i think it's it's a big ask but i think it's

[0:29:08] Trustee Middleton: doable by the committee we don't need legislative change we don't need we don't need any outside

[0:29:13] Trustee Middleton: adjustment we don't need to change or radically change our policies like we can actually start

[0:29:19] Trustee Middleton: are right away on that um so

[0:29:22] Voice 7: i'll reflect it up so hearing that i'll reflect it up under number

[0:29:25] Voice 7: one as

[0:29:25] Trustee Middleton: well thank you yeah and

[0:29:27] Voice 7: have i have i captured it correctly develop an integrated

[0:29:31] Voice 7: corporate plan and incorporate integrated plan okay also here

[0:29:35] Voice 7: as i was typing as i was listening

[0:29:37] Voice 7: i've got for advocates here um more elected selected contact more measurement of effectiveness

[0:29:42] Voice 7: i summarized what you were saying is more campaign focused i don't know if that's

[0:29:46] Voice 7: accurate and then

[0:29:47] Trustee Middleton: a line of

[0:29:47] Voice 7: advocacy with a corporate plan yeah

[0:29:49] Trustee Middleton: yeah okay

[0:29:50] Voice 7: um

[0:29:53] Voice 6: uh chair

[0:29:54] Voice 6: middleton i said a question about um the when you say corporate plan it's you mean

[0:30:00] Voice 6: like the uh strategic plan or the in or yeah

[0:30:04] Trustee Middleton: it's no it's a good question it sounds wrong to say

[0:30:07] Trustee Middleton: corporate plan i think what they're what they're saying is it's like an organizational plan so

[0:30:12] Trustee Middleton: right now they say what they're i think what they were saying is the strategic plan is somehow a

[0:30:18] Trustee Middleton: little bit separate from the bulk of the organization and so therefore we've got the

[0:30:24] Trustee Middleton: strategic plan and the budget now the budget feeds the strategic plan but only insofar as there's

[0:30:31] Trustee Middleton: room after you do all the other stuff and their point is well all the other stuff if it's core

[0:30:36] Trustee Middleton: to what we're doing that that should be in the plan and um and so i think it's more like saying

[0:30:42] Trustee Middleton: the plan is how are we moving the entire organization forward how do we want to spend

[0:30:47] Trustee Middleton: spend all of our resources um obviously some stuff we have statutory responsibilities but i mean

[0:30:55] Trustee Middleton: they're they're they're basically saying there's mechanisms i think that you can um you know like

[0:31:01] Trustee Middleton: when i first started a trustee i was thinking what is this division of planning versus advocacy

[0:31:07] Trustee Middleton: so anything that's not planning is advocacy i'm thinking the world isn't a dichotomy like that

[0:31:13] Trustee Middleton: like this and and so this this approach would be a way of saying okay it's almost like saying okay

[0:31:19] Trustee Middleton: ecosystem health first work down how do we get there you know it's like um what what activities

[0:31:26] Trustee Middleton: do we do uh given what we have and if we want more what's our plan for getting the more yeah

[0:31:33] Trustee Middleton: and that's

[0:31:35] Voice 6: it from a financial planning committee i'm only been a trustee for four years so it feels

[0:31:40] Voice 6: like five minutes so disregard my comment if it's not relevant but um it definitely feels like i

[0:31:46] Voice 6: agree with the planning budget it kind of felt like you know we get all the the admin and core

[0:31:53] Voice 6: stuff budgeted for and then the project planning did fall off the back of the truck and it always

[0:31:59] Voice 6: felt like that we'd get through the whole budget to talk with trust council and at the very end we

[0:32:03] Voice 6: were like okay we got we turns out we got nothing left because we added computers and we added this

[0:32:08] Voice 6: Yes. And then so then we end up cutting core required infrastructure for the trust to operate, which then reduces our project capacity.

[0:32:17] Voice 6: So I think this is a amazing thing to include.

[0:32:21] Voice 6: I also have no idea how it would be included. And maybe I would support changing the corporate plan to like, I don't know.

[0:32:27] Voice 6: I don't know what a better word is. It just sounds like it doesn't

[0:32:31] Voice 6: include the project aspect, like maybe corporate slash strategic plan or just the full.

[0:32:36] Voice 6: I don't know, I'm not very good at wordsmithing, sorry.

[0:32:39] Voice 5: No, thank you.

[0:32:40] Voice 5: It's under special recommendation 11,

[0:32:42] Voice 5: under strategic planning, it says adopt a four to five year

[0:32:45] Voice 5: corporate plan that integrates strategic

[0:32:47] Voice 5: financial components, review updated annually,

[0:32:50] Voice 5: identifying initiatives to be taken, financial resources,

[0:32:54] Voice 5: my favorite, performance metrics.

[0:32:57] Voice 5: So it's, they say it sets the stage for accountability

[0:32:59] Voice 5: and I would add performance metrics as well.

[0:33:04] Voice 5: Like we do these things, okay, well, how do they work?

[0:33:06] Voice 5: it even like although everything we do does the advocacy work do we ever return and find out what

[0:33:12] Voice 5: we did worked and we we kind of not we kind of get and i'm sure that's rest with us trustees

[0:33:18] Voice 5: we kind of turn on a dime constantly and um yeah so i hope yeah hopefully we can

[0:33:25] Voice 5: i

[0:33:26] Voice 6: i do worry when we include performance metrics because for some reason trustees

[0:33:30] Voice 6: always feel like this is just this will only relate to staff whereas i feel like the

[0:33:34] Voice 6: biggest issues with performance metrics was within trustees and requesting too many things or

[0:33:40] Voice 6: requests or not knowing where to cut or cutting too much so i feel like i just would make sure

[0:33:46] Voice 6: that's not that's not what i intended

[0:33:48] Voice 6: no

[0:33:49] Trustee Middleton: no i know it's not i know for sure i

[0:33:50] Voice 6: think that certain

[0:33:52] Voice 6: trustees might read that as yes we need to understand what trust what staff are doing but

[0:33:57] Voice 6: i know what staff are doing i'm very curious whatever else is

[0:34:01] Voice 5: yeah and we could probably say trust council performance metrics really because it's it's

[0:34:05] Voice 5: what we're bringing to table and having the staff work on and uh are they working is it

[0:34:09] Voice 5: are we just spinning up it it's what it is

[0:34:12] Voice 5: did

[0:34:13] Voice 7: i hear that you wanted me to add the words trust

[0:34:15] Voice 7: council ahead of performance metrics i would okay it

[0:34:19] Trustee Middleton: it's like as she talked to i mean

[0:34:23] Trustee Middleton: this one's a bit of a nebulous concept to get ahead around but she talks about the leadership

[0:34:27] Trustee Middleton: void just the way we're structured like nobody's the villain nobody intends to not provide

[0:34:34] Trustee Middleton: leadership or be thwarted in providing leadership but with such a large group and this is why they

[0:34:40] Trustee Middleton: recommend the secretariat function i think was to support that group in its decision making

[0:34:45] Trustee Middleton: if it can be they they talked about having a way to talk through differences of values

[0:34:52] Trustee Middleton: values, in a way where you can gain alignment and issue a direction forward that staff can

[0:34:58] Trustee Middleton: interpret. Now, those are nice words. I don't know how you do that. But I know that's what we need to

[0:35:04] Trustee Middleton: do. I know that's what's dogged us a little bit. So it's become like a political slugfest, who can

[0:35:09] Trustee Middleton: get the most votes. And every issue seemed to hinge on that. And that's, you know, I embraced that for

[0:35:16] Trustee Middleton: a while thinking that was the way forward. But I don't see that now. I do see that if this

[0:35:19] Trustee Middleton: this organization works more collegially, and with consensus, it can be better. And I think

[0:35:26] Trustee Middleton: those tools we don't have at the council level when we make decisions. And so that's what I see

[0:35:31] Trustee Middleton: coming out of the governance committee is accessing that professional expertise and helping

[0:35:37] Trustee Middleton: us kind of make clearer direction as leaders so the organization can be more focused. And I would

[0:35:43] Trustee Middleton: imagine the performance metrics would be something like ecosystem health kind of like tahira said

[0:35:50] Trustee Middleton: about you know the the carrying capacity measures like those really would be the measures of our

[0:35:56] Trustee Middleton: success i would think right i mean there's a bunch of them and again i'm not i don't know how you

[0:36:02] Trustee Middleton: measure ecosystem health that's not my thing but i know we can access that expertise and that's how

[0:36:08] Trustee Middleton: we'd measure our work i think um and it's a big it's very blue sky and very like but i i think

[0:36:16] Trustee Middleton: if we don't actually start down that path and that's why i'm super pleased we actually have

[0:36:20] Trustee Middleton: this committee i don't see how we get there and i know it's not going to be an easy road

[0:36:26] Trustee Middleton: and i know some of the stuff may just simply not be achievable there's just too many competing

[0:36:30] Trustee Middleton: priorities and we're going to have to compromise but i think focusing on those areas will really

[0:36:37] Trustee Middleton: allow us to move forwards um and and but it might take years you know i honestly i i don't know but

[0:36:46] Trustee Middleton: i think we're in a good place to start

[0:36:49] Voice 7: i'd be

[0:36:51] Voice 7: so excited to support you in that work

[0:36:54] Voice 7: um have i captured have i captured

[0:36:57] Voice 7: this accurately if i can just pause this for a minute does this

[0:36:59] Voice 7: accurately capture the conversation yeah

[0:37:03] Trustee Middleton: okay totally fine yeah and

[0:37:06] Voice 5: also can i add um at the

[0:37:08] Voice 5: trust council level in terms of the agenda um to have way more opportunity for us to discuss for

[0:37:15] Voice 5: trustees to have discussions not so much uh reports i mean i know we need reports but

[0:37:23] Voice 5: you know we can read them before we're supposed to be reading them before but um i always feel

[0:37:29] Voice 5: unsure and it's been noted by other people that other trustees that you know we just need more

[0:37:34] Voice 5: time to discuss things it would be great and i know we you know we could do emails or whatever

[0:37:38] Voice 5: but i'd like to you know we wanted to be open and hear all the comments and uh yeah more discussion

[0:37:45] Voice 7: i've added that was that a specific recommendation of the governance committee it

[0:37:49] Voice 5: was sort of within

[0:37:50] Voice 5: something if somebody could jog my memory again tahira um

[0:37:55] Voice 6: i can't jog your memory but i think

[0:37:57] Voice 6: it's important to note that zoom i feel is not conducive to more opportunities for trust council

[0:38:03] Voice 6: to have discussions a hundred percent it is i i would love to have a coffee with one of you guys

[0:38:09] Voice 6: after this and chat about this governance committee meeting but i guarantee i'm not going to

[0:38:13] Voice 6: be you know just chatting on zoom you know it's uh and it's all recorded so i think um i think we've

[0:38:21] Voice 6: i've learned a valuable lesson about uh zoom versus in-person meetings and i would recommend

[0:38:26] Voice 6: to future trust councils to ensure that you have at least 50 percent in-person meetings a year

[0:38:33] Voice 6: so that's relevant

[0:38:34] Voice 2: totally i would totally agree with that i i think there's there's a lot of

[0:38:39] Voice 2: opportunity that's missed um i i think zoom has some like it has some utility for um certain

[0:38:48] Voice 2: things uh you know people not being able to travel you know it's good it's it's things but you miss

[0:38:55] Voice 2: like the collegiality you miss the informal um like you say the coffee before or at the break or

[0:39:03] Voice 2: or after the meeting.

[0:39:04] Voice 2: And I think that also goes back to what Alex was saying

[0:39:08] Voice 2: about more time to discuss.

[0:39:10] Voice 2: One thing about in-person meetings is we do have

[0:39:12] Voice 2: that more time to discuss outside of the council chambers,

[0:39:15] Voice 2: that informal stuff.

[0:39:17] Voice 2: So, I mean, I know end of last term,

[0:39:21] Voice 2: I convinced trust council to put a recommendation

[0:39:28] Voice 2: to the incoming trust council to consider lengthening

[0:39:33] Voice 2: Mayor Mrakas, The duration of of trust Council meetings to allow for more discussion, and I think that in person, my experience of our forced move into zoom is that we actually lost a lot of collegiality and we lost a lot of opportunity for discussion outside of Council Chamber as part of that so.

[0:39:53] Voice 2: Mayor Mrakas, yeah yeah

[0:39:56] Voice 7: so we have staff are currently trying to decide how you know for budget purposes, do we recommend you know, for the first term all in person, you know yeah right.

[0:40:05] Voice 2: I honestly feel like this term,

[0:40:08] Voice 2: we were lucky that we got as far into the term

[0:40:11] Voice 2: as we did before we got the lockdowns

[0:40:13] Voice 2: because I feel like a year into Zoom,

[0:40:17] Voice 2: there was a trust council meeting

[0:40:19] Voice 2: that was just so on the verge

[0:40:22] Voice 2: of getting really dysfunctional and personal.

[0:40:24] Voice 2: It was actually, it was quite disturbing.

[0:40:27] Voice 2: And I just feel like it's one of these situations

[0:40:30] Voice 2: where when you're in person

[0:40:34] Voice 2: or when you're when you're not in person people might say things and might use tones that they

[0:40:39] Voice 2: wouldn't use in person sitting around a room that they're gonna then go have dinner without those

[0:40:44] Voice 2: people and stuff and and i actually felt like it could have been a lot worse and it could have been

[0:40:50] Voice 2: a lot more dysfunctional if if the pandemic had hit before we'd all got to know each other as well

[0:40:57] Voice 2: well as we did before it happened so I mean in that sense I realize there's more expense involved

[0:41:02] Voice 2: in in meeting in person but I actually think it's really worthwhile in terms of the quality

[0:41:11] Voice 2: the collegiality the quality of discussion and that opportunity for for discussion outside of

[0:41:17] Voice 2: the of the meeting proper so I mean those

[0:41:20] Voice 2: are just things I would know

[0:41:22] Voice 6: a hundred percent the

[0:41:24] Voice 6: The respect is at a much higher level in person.

[0:41:27] Voice 6: And I think much of

[0:41:28] Voice 6: my decisions for the two years we didn't meet, many of it, much of

[0:41:32] Voice 6: my background information depended on the year and a half that we did spend trust counsel

[0:41:36] Voice 6: together and getting to know each individual because, you know, some of us like myself

[0:41:41] Voice 6: aren't great public speakers, but when I can chat with you outside of the meeting, you

[0:41:45] Voice 6: maybe think, oh, this is what she means, even though she's not coming across so clearly.

[0:41:50] Voice 6: It just, it gives you the person behind the comments.

[0:41:56] Voice 7: So with that, I think I have to encourage us to head back over to the main Council meeting.

[0:42:02] Voice 7: Trustee Middleton, I will email you this to inform your reporting

[0:42:06] Voice 7: out, if that works.

[0:42:07] Trustee Middleton: Thank you. Yeah. Thanks, everyone. That was great. Thank you.

[0:42:10] Trustee Middleton: Thanks, everyone.