Islands Trust Council regular meeting, March 9, 2023

[0:00:46] Voice 6: So, good morning, Council.

[0:00:55] Voice 6: There's which?

[0:00:58] Voice 6: Okay, let's get them in.

[0:01:06] Voice 6: Everything's fine.

[0:01:26] Voice 6: We'll end this all out now.

[0:01:43] Voice 6: So, we're just waiting for a couple more members, and we will begin.

[0:02:04] Voice 6: So, Laurie, are you going to start the meeting on the recording, and then you'll pause it when we go in camera?

[0:02:10] Voice 6: Thank you.

[0:02:11] Voice 6: And I don't think there's any changes to the language.

[0:02:28] Voice 6: So, good morning, Council.

[0:02:30] Voice 6: Council. I'm going to begin and

[0:02:33] Voice 6: hope you all had a good evening and a good sleep this morning. We've got

[0:02:37] Voice 6: a full morning, maybe a bit more, of

[0:02:41] Voice 6: work to do here. We're going to go

[0:02:44] Voice 6: I want to acknowledge first of all that we're meeting in Coast Salish Territory here in

[0:02:50] Voice 6: the Instant Amo Territory and of course people

[0:02:53] Voice 6: viewing us today from across the Coast Salish Sea

[0:02:57] Voice 6: and appreciate that we're all here

[0:03:00] Voice 6: and have the opportunity to work in the various territories

[0:03:05] Voice 6: up and down the Island Trust area.

[0:03:09] Voice 6: It's a significant historical cultural place

[0:03:12] Voice 6: and there's lots for us to know about the history

[0:03:16] Voice 6: and people that have been here since time immemorial.

[0:03:21] Voice 6: We left off an agenda with the budget

[0:03:24] Voice 6: that we're going to get to see what it looks like a little later today.

[0:03:28] Voice 6: We're going to go in-camera now, and then we're going to return to our agenda to move through the remaining items and adopt the budget.

[0:03:36] Voice 6: And so at this time, if somebody would like to make a motion to go in-camera, I'd be very grateful.

[0:03:42] Voice 6: Ben Maberly.

[0:03:44] Voice 6: Yeah,

[0:03:44] Voice 26: I'll make the motion to go in-camera.

[0:03:45] Voice 6: Thank you.

[0:04:06] Voice 6: Do you have the motion?

[0:04:08] Voice 6: Oh, sorry, Ben.

[0:04:09] Voice 6: No, I don't have the motion.

[0:04:09] Voice 6: I need somebody to read the motion.

[0:04:11] Voice 6: Are you prepared, Zerzuel, and Fass?

[0:04:13] Voice 6: Thank you.

[0:04:14] Voice 6: Sorry, Ben.

[0:04:14] Voice 6: I don't have it in front of me.

[0:04:15] Voice 6: sorry don't have it in front of me that's all right

[0:04:17] Trustee Fast: thank you um i move that the meeting be

[0:04:20] Trustee Fast: closed to the public section subject to sections 91 c g and i of the community charter in order

[0:04:27] Trustee Fast: to consider matters related to employee relations litigation and affecting the island's trust and

[0:04:32] Trustee Fast: receipt of advice that is subject to solicitor client privilege and staff attend the meeting

[0:04:36] Trustee Fast: good

[0:04:37] Voice 6: do i have a second so sue yay thank you um all right so we have an agenda before us

[0:04:44] Voice 6: and we'll just wait till the recording and all that good stuff stops and i'll look for a signal

[0:04:50] Voice 6: from the staff bench we have to vote on that thank you all those in favor that carries any opposed

[0:18:05] Voice 6: so council let's start returning to our seats so we can begin on time

[0:18:22] Voice 6: you'll have to try one more time

[0:18:25] Voice 9: What about that?

[0:18:27] Voice 6: Not in the last 45 days. Not enough. Thank you for whoever was ringing the

[0:18:44] Voice 6: bell. That managed to get attention. And I appreciate you returning to your seats.

[0:18:54] Voice 9: Recording in progress. Maybe

[0:19:33] Voice 6: let's provide a hint to the volume. Okay, perfect. All right.

[0:19:40] Voice 6: We are at 11.15.

[0:19:42] Voice 6: Thank you, Council, for coming back on time.

[0:19:45] Voice 6: And thank you to members of the public that are out there watching our streaming for rejoining us.

[0:19:50] Voice 6: We've just returned from an in-camera session.

[0:19:53] Voice 6: The only thing that I have to report from that session is that the minutes of the previous meeting were adopted.

[0:20:00] Voice 6: And we are now going to dive back into our agenda.

[0:20:03] Voice 6: and council just I'm anticipating and expecting we will get through everything we have remaining

[0:20:11] Voice 6: on our agenda I do believe that is going to run us into some overtime I want you to stay for the

[0:20:17] Voice 6: duration and I realize that may be difficult for some of you but it's important that we all be part

[0:20:24] Voice 6: of the conversation so that we understand what has has has proceeded whatever comes along next

[0:20:31] Voice 6: So, just to summarize, I want to get through item 5.2,

[0:20:37] Voice 6: which is the trust area services section.

[0:20:39] Voice 6: There's three items for decision there.

[0:20:44] Voice 6: That's going to allow us to catch up to where we are

[0:20:47] Voice 6: on our agenda with respect to disposition

[0:20:51] Voice 6: and delegations and correspondence.

[0:20:55] Voice 6: And then we're going to move

[0:20:57] Voice 6: into the financial bylaw approval process

[0:21:00] Voice 6: and the boring motion and then we're going to go into the new business section where there's a

[0:21:07] Voice 6: couple of trustees that have come to us and then we'll be getting political pretty close to wrapping

[0:21:14] Voice 6: up by then so that's my expectation and so if there's any questions then i'm going to begin

[0:21:22] Voice 6: so i'm going to start with section 5.2 director freighter this is your area and um i thank a

[0:21:31] Voice 6: council for making some adjustments to the budget uh um out of uh identifying uh some of the areas

[0:21:38] Voice 6: that were uh identified in director freighter's report on the policy statement but i'm going to

[0:21:44] Voice 6: now just turn to director fader to introduce this rfd and then we'll go for questions

[0:21:49] Voice 6: and determine the appropriateness of the motion that is before us there director fader thank you

[0:21:57] Voice 6: Thank you for the service that you provide and your team's work.

[0:22:01] Voice 6: We very much appreciate it. Indeed. Thank you.

[0:22:06] Voice 19: Thank you, Chair, and good morning, Council.

[0:22:08] Voice 19: What we're bringing for you today is a revised draft project charter, version six.

[0:22:16] Voice 19: And we're looking for you today to make some decisions around the course of the policy statement amendment project.

[0:22:22] Voice 19: This project charter represents advice from Trust Programs Committee and Executive Committee.

[0:22:28] Voice 19: Um, generally it represents a slow approach. So trying to give council, um, lots of time to

[0:22:33] Voice 19: deliberate on the draft document and come to some level of agreement on the language in it prior to

[0:22:39] Voice 19: going out for community input. Um, the way in which things would roll, should this be the plan

[0:22:45] Voice 19: that you want to put in place would be that staff will undertake early and meaningful engagement

[0:22:49] Voice 19: with First Nations to seek their early input on a draft. We currently have eight nations with

[0:22:54] Voice 19: interest from a ninth, um, that have indicated they want to work with us and we've provided

[0:22:57] Voice 19: capacity funding for that. We would then provide the draft to trust council likely in August should

[0:23:04] Voice 19: all go well for you to refine and I would suggest to you that you take all the time that you need

[0:23:10] Voice 19: to make that document what you as a group wish it to be. After that what would happen is you would

[0:23:15] Voice 19: refer it to local trust committees and Bowen Island municipality for six months and the committee and

[0:23:21] Voice 19: Bowen Island would have six months to engage with their communities contemplate the document

[0:23:25] Voice 19: and undertake whatever local processes you feel

[0:23:28] Voice 19: are appropriate for your communities.

[0:23:30] Voice 19: And then a referral response would come back

[0:23:32] Voice 19: from each one of those bodies.

[0:23:34] Voice 19: And then council would reconsider the document

[0:23:37] Voice 19: and ask staff to make any other changes

[0:23:39] Voice 19: that come out of that process.

[0:23:40] Voice 19: Then first reading would happen.

[0:23:42] Voice 19: After first reading, then it would proceed out

[0:23:45] Voice 19: to First Nations, regional districts,

[0:23:48] Voice 19: and any other bodies that you wish

[0:23:50] Voice 19: to seek renewed comment from.

[0:23:52] Voice 19: And then following that, it would come back

[0:23:54] Voice 19: for again more consideration by trust council the timeline that's proposed in this project charter

[0:24:00] Voice 19: does have you seeking completion by the end of the term but close to the end of the term

[0:24:06] Voice 19: so as we discussed yesterday you voted on a motion to reduce the budget because of course we had

[0:24:13] Voice 19: changes in resources to the project that happened after the budget was approved by fpc to head to

[0:24:20] Voice 19: Council. And finally, I just wish to draw your attention, there's a communication strategy

[0:24:24] Voice 19: within the documents that we've provided to you that's been provided by a consultant who had

[0:24:29] Voice 19: access to all the prior materials around the prior engagements that happened and our prior

[0:24:34] Voice 19: communication efforts. Of course, today, I would welcome feedback, but also one on one, if you look

[0:24:40] Voice 19: at that document, did you have ideas or things that you think would be most helpful to you as a

[0:24:43] Voice 19: trustee, or to your communities, in terms of the support we provide you both while you're in the

[0:24:48] Voice 19: inform stage while you're just telling you while you're looking at the document as a council you'll

[0:24:53] Voice 19: be informing your communities about what's happening and then we'll shift into a consult

[0:24:56] Voice 19: phase where the ltcs and bowen can consult with communities in both of those two phases we're

[0:25:01] Voice 19: looking to you to tell us what supports do you need and that will be important over the year

[0:25:05] Voice 19: as we work to procure some consultants to help us with that work we've learned a lot of lessons i

[0:25:11] Voice 19: think and the recommendations represent those lessons learned ultimately i would just say this

[0:25:17] Voice 19: this is your project and this will be your process.

[0:25:21] Voice 19: Where we're at now is that you've given,

[0:25:23] Voice 19: our council has given 32 recommendations

[0:25:25] Voice 19: and we have a draft that we're working on.

[0:25:27] Voice 19: As I noted, Director Myler is stepping in to assist

[0:25:31] Voice 19: and the whole team at the management level

[0:25:34] Voice 19: is supporting us in meeting with nations

[0:25:36] Voice 19: to seek their early input.

[0:25:39] Voice 19: So I'll leave it there and be happy to take any questions.

[0:25:44] Voice 6: Thank you very much, Director Frater.

[0:25:45] Voice 6: So, any questions? And I'd certainly also be happy to see a motion on the floor, as indicated in the report.

[0:25:53] Voice 6: Deb Morrison.

[0:25:58] Voice 20: Thank you very much, Director Frater, for this. This is really helpful.

[0:26:02] Voice 20: And I would love to put the motion on the floor and then maybe speak to it, if that's all appropriate.

[0:26:09] Voice 20: And I apologize to the current chair not to have the motion on, but I'm very excited as the past chair to put this motion on the floor.

[0:26:17] Voice 20: that the trust uh sorry let me get the right one in front of me um the trust council approved

[0:26:23] Voice 20: policy statement amendment project charter version six thank

[0:26:29] Voice 6: you very much moved and seconded by

[0:26:31] Voice 6: uh to ellen fast thank you um and so you should speak to your motion yeah

[0:26:37] Voice 20: so um i'll try to be

[0:26:38] Voice 20: brief though wow i could write a book about this particular project um so i i really think that

[0:26:44] Voice 20: this um version this version of the refinement allows us the time to get the revisions done

[0:26:50] Voice 20: from last term so that what is forwarded to trustees for the initial feedback and consultation

[0:26:56] Voice 20: is actually informed by all of the thinking and work that the last trust council did um as opposed

[0:27:03] Voice 20: to this the version that is currently in circulation which is like a synthesis of trust

[0:27:09] Voice 20: council thinking by staff but not actually a vetted version by staff so i appreciate this a

[0:27:14] Voice 20: lot to be able to have this opportunity to get the trust council informed and behind this work so i

[0:27:23] Voice 20: am a little worried about the like what you mentioned about the timeline getting close to the

[0:27:28] Voice 20: end of the election because we had a delay in the um the well we have significant challenges in the

[0:27:35] Voice 20: the last charter that we had around this project and we do want to see it accomplished but i think

[0:27:40] Voice 20: if we start on this path and we find problems early in the first year we can kind of think

[0:27:44] Voice 20: about that and revise it if we need to so this is a good plan and we we kind of can look at it

[0:27:49] Voice 20: again in the fall potentially thank

[0:27:52] Voice 9: you laura patrick i

[0:27:58] Trustee Patrick: don't want to take a whole lot of time

[0:28:00] Trustee Patrick: now because perhaps we'll have to have a conversation at our local trust committee

[0:28:03] Trustee Patrick: but the approach works for smaller islands salt spring for six months for the local trust committee

[0:28:12] Trustee Patrick: to yank about this over our community is going to be very difficult without funding strategic

[0:28:20] Trustee Patrick: engagement and public engagement that's designed for a community of over 12 000 people 13 first

[0:28:26] Trustee Patrick: nations local indigenous and representative so we've got a real challenge so i just want to say

[0:28:34] Trustee Patrick: there's a risk here we cut money out of the budget yesterday the local trust committee will need to

[0:28:38] Trustee Patrick: discuss and say what do we need to do that kind of engagement very

[0:28:45] Voice 6: good thank you laura thank you for

[0:28:47] Voice 6: the heads up uh tim peterson toby elliott christina evans uh thank you

[0:28:54] Voice 10: chair um this is really

[0:28:59] Voice 10: important work. Trust Council

[0:29:03] Voice 10: historically in the past several terms

[0:29:07] Voice 10: has not addressed this.

[0:29:11] Voice 10: We need to address this. Our policy states

[0:29:16] Voice 10: that we are to review the policy statement on a

[0:29:20] Voice 10: regular basis. That hasn't been done. This is really important work. I'm

[0:29:24] Voice 10: very excited to see the new draft with

[0:29:28] Voice 10: With the 32 resolutions of trust and also from June and September of last term coming forward and seeing what this new draft looks like.

[0:29:41] Voice 10: And I ask everyone not to prejudge until we see that draft, what it's going to look like.

[0:29:50] Voice 10: And I beat the same drum that I was beating all last.

[0:30:00] Voice 10: term, which is that our policy says that we're

[0:30:05] Voice 10: to review this document on a regular basis.

[0:30:08] Voice 10: This is important work. It needs to be done. It needs to be advanced.

[0:30:12] Voice 10: And I'm very much in support of the motion. Thank you.

[0:30:16] Voice 10: Toby Elliott.

[0:30:19] Voice 17: Thank you. And I support the

[0:30:21] Voice 17: motion as well. I would just add to Trustee

[0:30:25] Voice 17: Patrick's voice that in addition to the

[0:30:29] Voice 17: the complexity of consulting as a trustee with a community, there's also the consideration of

[0:30:36] Voice 17: your own bias. And this is something that, as a researcher, I have done work in community and

[0:30:42] Voice 17: research in community, and you become aware of your own bias, and that's a practice and a process,

[0:30:48] Voice 17: and it's sort of a discipline. Each of us have different lenses about what we consider our

[0:30:53] Voice 17: biases. So I just submit that to Trust Programs Committee, as you're contemplating a consultation

[0:30:57] Voice 17: consultation process, we may need an intermediary sort of consultant phase. And so I just would

[0:31:07] Voice 17: ask that that would be honoured. I'm not sure I'm ready to go in front of my community. And

[0:31:13] Voice 17: yeah, it's just, it's going to be complicated. So just make sure that that bias is worked in there.

[0:31:19] Voice 17: Thanks.

[0:31:21] Voice 6: Director Fader.

[0:31:24] Voice 19: Sorry, I didn't want to speak ahead of any other trustee.

[0:31:26] Voice 19: I

[0:31:27] Voice 6: will have a couple more, but did you want to respond directly to Toby?

[0:31:30] Voice 19: Not to that. That's something that came

[0:31:31] Voice 6: up earlier, but it can wait.

[0:31:32] Voice 6: Okay. Thank you. So Christina Evans and Kate Louise Stanford.

[0:31:38] Voice 14: Thank you, Chair. I also am in support of the motion that's on the floor.

[0:31:44] Voice 14: One thing that I would like to put before this council as a suggestion would be there's a lot of changes that are necessary.

[0:31:54] Voice 14: There are far-reaching implications of the changes that are in there, and they are either mandated or part of our, legislated or part of our mandate, and they are absolutely needed.

[0:32:06] Voice 14: However, now the changes to this document feel like it's become an elephant.

[0:32:10] Voice 14: relevant it's it's quite large and it's difficult for a lot of our communities to absorb and fully

[0:32:17] Voice 14: understand the reasoning behind it and the implications of what this is going to look like

[0:32:23] Voice 14: going forward there's also a lot of misinformation out in the public that is clouding how people are

[0:32:29] Voice 14: viewing these changes one of my recommendations could be to the council that we break this down

[0:32:36] Voice 14: into the high-level topics that have already been identified we have first nations reconciliation

[0:32:42] Voice 14: climate change housing and general edits perhaps if we go to our communities and deal with them

[0:32:51] Voice 14: one at a time perhaps we can only advance through one or two this term perhaps we can get through

[0:32:58] Voice 14: all four but allowing the time to fully understand the changes and to allow our communities to get

[0:33:07] Voice 14: get behind and support these changes with true understanding, I think is vital, given the

[0:33:13] Voice 14: importance of this document. So this is at this juncture, it may be appropriate to bring this

[0:33:21] Voice 14: forward. Other people may feel it's a little late to be bringing this forward. I would like to open

[0:33:26] Voice 14: this up for a short discussion because we're really time constrained today. And if it looks

[0:33:32] Voice 14: like it's going to go longer, perhaps we can move it to the next Trust Council or have a special

[0:33:36] Voice 14: meeting on this because this is a major project for this trust council so i'll leave that open

[0:33:44] Voice 6: okay certainly we're restricted for time today and um through the committee trust area services

[0:33:51] Voice 6: committee there may be some opportunity so i see uh director freighter nodding

[0:33:58] Voice 19: um certainly how we undertake public engagement which i think is what's being proposed is

[0:34:02] Voice 19: something that will be discussed as the committee's advise on a business case for next year

[0:34:06] Voice 19: what methods might be used and how that might be undertaken would certainly be a topic for

[0:34:11] Voice 19: a Trust Programs Committee executive to take a good look at as you contemplate what methods

[0:34:15] Voice 19: and approaches you wish to use. I'll just say the other topic I was going to respond to earlier was

[0:34:21] Voice 19: the notion around the timeline. I think the staff recommendation is going to be as you undertake

[0:34:25] Voice 19: this project, we've proposed the project based on quarterly council meetings. As you move through

[0:34:29] Voice 19: this, I would encourage council to consider special purpose meetings for this topic so you

[0:34:34] Voice 19: you can spend all day on the document rather than trying to sort of jam it in between different

[0:34:38] Voice 19: items on your regular agenda, which would then potentially expedite the timeline. So we wouldn't

[0:34:44] Voice 19: have to wait for the next quarterly meeting. But that would be something as I say, this is your

[0:34:47] Voice 19: process. And you can make changes as we go.

[0:34:50] Voice 6: Thank you. Kate, we Stanford, I

[0:34:55] Voice 18: have to admit my

[0:34:56] Voice 18: heart sank when I saw the timeline. And I still continue to kick myself that my the first decision

[0:35:04] Voice 18: of trust council 2012 we said no to advancing this project uh with funding um things you learn

[0:35:13] Voice 18: uh my can i i do support the the motion uh it is going to be difficult for my local trust

[0:35:21] Voice 18: area specifically gambier as we're in the middle of an official community plan uh any engagement

[0:35:27] Voice 18: than I do on that I have to be very clear the differentiation between the two projects and

[0:35:35] Voice 18: even then it doesn't usually translate this does have an impact on our OCPs but there's some of us

[0:35:42] Voice 18: that are doing consistent or concurrent streams of projects it does get confusing but I do support

[0:35:50] Voice 18: the motion thank

[0:35:51] Voice 6: you Kate Grace any other speakers otherwise are we ready to call the vote happy to

[0:35:57] Voice 6: call the vote all those in favor and

[0:36:02] Voice 9: online we have two persons please lower your hands

[0:36:13] Voice 9: okay and so any opposed

[0:36:14] Voice 6: in the room so i think that's unanimous thank you very much council and

[0:36:21] Voice 6: absolutely thank you very much uh to director freder and her staff for um continuing to the

[0:36:28] Voice 6: hard work to get this through to us thank you i'm going to go to the next item 5.22

[0:36:33] Voice 6: to uh the reconciliation learning group request for decision again there's a motion there i will

[0:36:39] Voice 6: just turn it over to the director to introduce it and then perhaps we'll answer some questions

[0:36:44] Voice 6: and get that motion on the floor thank you uh

[0:36:47] Voice 19: thank you chair this is being brought to you

[0:36:49] Voice 19: at council's request from december um you asked staff to prepare a report regarding options for

[0:36:55] Voice 19: resourcing and supporting a new select committee on reconciliation along with recommendations around

[0:36:59] Voice 19: on terms of reference, composition and purpose.

[0:37:02] Voice 19: So our advice to you at this time

[0:37:04] Voice 19: is to not proceed in that manner

[0:37:05] Voice 19: with striking a select committee with public meetings

[0:37:08] Voice 19: and all the associated administration,

[0:37:10] Voice 19: but rather instead to move ahead with learning.

[0:37:12] Voice 19: I think this was something that we achieved

[0:37:15] Voice 19: somewhat in the last term,

[0:37:16] Voice 19: where it allows trustees in your first year

[0:37:18] Voice 19: to strike a learning group that staff could support

[0:37:21] Voice 19: and bring in external experts and speakers

[0:37:22] Voice 19: and address the questions you have,

[0:37:24] Voice 19: rather than having yet another committee

[0:37:26] Voice 19: that needs more administrative support

[0:37:27] Voice 19: with all the public meetings and so on.

[0:37:29] Voice 19: It also might create a more comfortable environment

[0:37:31] Voice 19: for trustees in this first year

[0:37:33] Voice 19: to ask difficult questions and undertake learning

[0:37:36] Voice 19: without having to do so in a public meeting.

[0:37:40] Voice 19: So that's our staff recommendation

[0:37:41] Voice 19: is that you strike this learning group

[0:37:43] Voice 19: with monthly meetings,

[0:37:44] Voice 19: and then perhaps revisit the idea of a select committee

[0:37:46] Voice 19: in the next year of the term,

[0:37:47] Voice 19: if that's the direction you'd like to go.

[0:37:49] Voice 19: There are alternatives proposed

[0:37:51] Voice 19: at the bottom of that briefing as well,

[0:37:53] Voice 19: should you wish to go in a different direction.

[0:37:56] Voice 6: Okay. Are there any questions, clarity, or we look for a motion? Laura Patrick.

[0:38:08] Trustee Patrick: Last term, there was an attempt at creating, I don't know if it was called a working group or

[0:38:14] Trustee Patrick: a learning group or what the title was, but it never met. So have we done a lessons learned so

[0:38:19] Trustee Patrick: that we don't fall into that trap again? I would say yes.

[0:38:25] Voice 6: Okay. Thank you. So was there, Toby, Elliot, go ahead.

[0:38:29] Voice 6: um

[0:38:31] Voice 17: yeah and as the original uh notice of motion requesting that this be explored i do fully

[0:38:37] Voice 17: endorse this uh i really love the approach of a learning group um i'm a member of um an

[0:38:44] Voice 17: intersectional learning group right now called culturally committed in which there's indigenous

[0:38:49] Voice 17: mentors and teachers and we get to ask questions about protocol and as law and legislative

[0:38:56] Voice 17: processes are evolving and land use planning is changing, these things are happening in real time.

[0:39:04] Voice 17: And so if whatever can support reconciliatory action at this level, that's what I'm in favor

[0:39:12] Voice 17: of. So I'm really behind this idea and I'd love to be part of the group. So thank you for the

[0:39:18] Voice 17: suggestion, Claire.

[0:39:19] Voice 6: Thank you. And

[0:39:20] Voice 17: I'll make the motion. Sure. I move that a reconciliation learning

[0:39:24] Voice 17: group be initiated, comprised of trustees who indicate interest, and that a learning plan be

[0:39:31] Voice 17: developed and implemented through monthly virtual meetings.

[0:39:35] Voice 6: All right, there's a number of you that

[0:39:37] Voice 6: want to second that. I'm just going to go to Deb Morrison because I see she's got her hand up right

[0:39:40] Voice 6: now with the seconding indicator. So thank you very much. Do you wish to speak further to your

[0:39:49] Voice 6: your motion no thank you uh is there any other discussion on the motion i have tim peterson and

[0:39:55] Voice 6: deb morrison on my speaker's list uh

[0:39:59] Voice 10: thank you chair i i support this approach i think it's a

[0:40:03] Voice 10: it's a good approach um i think that one of the things that uh it's important for trustees to be

[0:40:11] Voice 10: mindful of and and that i think that this approach will support is um cultural safety in terms of

[0:40:20] Voice 10: of receiving learning and advice from First Nations people.

[0:40:28] Voice 6: Thank you, Deb Morrison.

[0:40:30] Voice 20: Thank you for this motion.

[0:40:32] Voice 20: And the primary reason why I think it's better

[0:40:35] Voice 20: to be a learning group versus a committee at this moment

[0:40:38] Voice 20: is because I think there are a lot of places

[0:40:42] Voice 20: where we have uneven learning and understanding,

[0:40:45] Voice 20: myself included, around this area.

[0:40:48] Voice 20: And as we learn and think about this,

[0:40:49] Voice 20: is we can bring specific learnings into Trust Council,

[0:40:52] Voice 20: into other committees that we work on

[0:40:55] Voice 20: as it sort of permeates our work.

[0:40:56] Voice 20: And for me, reconciliation should be throughout our work,

[0:41:00] Voice 20: so this allows us that opportunity better.

[0:41:05] Voice 6: Thank you.

[0:41:06] Voice 6: Seeing no other speakers,

[0:41:10] Voice 6: oh, Joe Bernardo.

[0:41:12] Trustee Bernardo: Just one quick comment, which I would,

[0:41:14] Trustee Bernardo: and I also support the idea of this proceeding

[0:41:17] Trustee Bernardo: in this fashion,

[0:41:18] Trustee Bernardo: But I would hope we would use the learning component here as an opportunity to also build relationships with the right people we need to be talking to in the respect of First Nations and Indigenous groups that we're going to be dealing with going forward.

[0:41:39] Trustee Bernardo: Thank

[0:41:42] Voice 6: you very much, Joe.

[0:41:43] Voice 6: Not seeing any further questions, I'll call the vote.

[0:41:46] Voice 6: All those in favor?

[0:41:49] Voice 9: And online?

[0:41:53] Voice 9: line any opposed all

[0:41:59] Voice 6: right thank you so that carries also unanimously um thank you very much

[0:42:05] Voice 6: um so we're going to move on to 5.2.3 uh recommended knowledge just council representative

[0:42:11] Voice 6: and alternative attendee for dfo shellfish agriculture management advisory committee

[0:42:18] Voice 6: i just mentioned that this has been a long sought after seat that we only got last term after

[0:42:26] Voice 6: after many attempts, and I'm pleased to see that we have the ability to refill that position now.

[0:42:33] Voice 6: And I'm just going to go to the director to just introduce it, what our expectations are here

[0:42:39] Voice 6: in terms of who that representative might be, and then we'll go to the floor for

[0:42:45] Voice 6: nominations or discussion.

[0:42:48] Voice 19: Yes, thank you, Chair. I'll just echo that. This is an example of

[0:42:51] Voice 19: successful advocacy that has taken quite a long time to achieve, so we're grateful to DFO for

[0:42:56] Voice 19: for finally making this change

[0:42:58] Voice 19: to invite Islands Trust onto this committee.

[0:43:01] Voice 19: I understand there have been some discussions

[0:43:03] Voice 19: amongst trustees, so the best way forward

[0:43:05] Voice 19: might be for the chair to ask

[0:43:07] Voice 19: if there's indications of interest

[0:43:08] Voice 19: for being the primary representative and the alternate,

[0:43:11] Voice 19: and then council can consider a discussion

[0:43:14] Voice 19: around how to decide on those potential appointees.

[0:43:18] Voice 6: Okay, thank you very much.

[0:43:20] Voice 6: So indeed, I am going to ask whether or not

[0:43:23] Voice 6: there's expressions of interest in being nominated

[0:43:25] Voice 6: to these positions, and I have been advised that Trustee Leroni and Trustee Graham are both

[0:43:32] Voice 6: interested in them. I'm not sure the priority of those, but I think what would be appropriate at

[0:43:39] Voice 6: this point before I ask if there's other potential interests is whether or not those two individuals

[0:43:45] Voice 6: are prepared to stand for that position. So, Trustee Leroni, yes. David Graham online,

[0:43:50] Voice 6: are you prepared to stand for that? I am, thank you.

[0:43:53] Voice 6: Thank you very much. Are there any other interests in this position? All right. So I know that you're all reserving yourself because you'd like to be in that place. Trustee Peterson would like to make a motion.

[0:44:07] Voice 6: Yeah,

[0:44:09] Voice 10: I'd like to make the motion and I'd just like to preface before I make the motion that it's my perception, having attended the Baines Channel, Baines-San Lambert Channel forums, partially sponsored by Trust Council, that this seat in my, I firmly believe that this seat has come to Trust Council.

[0:44:37] Voice 10: Council as a direct result of of that engagement in that forum um so I'll go ahead and make the

[0:44:44] Voice 10: motion I move that Trust Council recommended Fisheries and Oceans Canada DFO that trustee

[0:44:50] Voice 10: laroni be appointed as Trust Council's representative to the DFO shellfish Aquaculture

[0:44:57] Voice 10: Management Advisory Committee and that trustee Graham be identified as an alternate attendee

[0:45:03] Voice 6: All right. So moved and seconded. Do I have a seconder? Seconded by Deb Morrison. Thank you, Deb. Do you wish to speak to the motion further? No? Any discussion on the motion, Deb Morrison?

[0:45:16] Voice 20: I am usually the last person to do this, but I am going to say that I would be really proud to before this motion to have a woman represent the Trust Council in a fisheries context as a primary person.

[0:45:27] Voice 20: And I don't always like to call out gender, but I think that, you know, yesterday was International Women's Day.

[0:45:33] Voice 20: It's a moment. Thank you.

[0:45:35] Voice 6: Thank you. Any further discussion on the motion on the floor?

[0:45:40] Voice 6: Then I'm going to call for the vote. All those in favor. Hands down.

[0:45:48] Voice 6: And online, any opposed? That's unanimous.

[0:45:52] Voice 6: Thank you for supporting a woman representing our trusted DFO.

[0:45:56] Voice 6: So awesome.

[0:45:58] Voice 6: And especially thank you for new trustee coming on board

[0:46:01] Voice 6: and stepping up for that important role.

[0:46:04] Voice 6: Council, well done.

[0:46:06] Voice 6: That's Trust Area Services.

[0:46:07] Voice 6: Director Faraday, thank you very much.

[0:46:14] Voice 6: Okay, so let's get to where we are.

[0:46:17] Voice 6: So we've done the in-camera meeting.

[0:46:19] Voice 6: So here we are at disposition of delegations.

[0:46:23] Voice 6: We had a number of delegates and members of the public

[0:46:28] Voice 6: communicate with us. And just so that you know, we normally send a letter of thank you

[0:46:34] Voice 6: with some remarks associated with the presentation to the delegates on a regular basis. No motion

[0:46:43] Voice 6: required to do that. If there's any particular direction that you would like to take with

[0:46:49] Voice 6: respect to disposition of delegations or a particular message that you want to send in

[0:46:54] Voice 6: some way um certainly now would be the time to advance a motion on some direction with respect

[0:47:02] Voice 6: to disposition of delegations so i'm going to just turn to the floor and ask if there's members that

[0:47:08] Voice 6: have prepared a motion hopefully provided to lori um for the disposition of a delegation so i'm

[0:47:15] Voice 6: looking around the room i'm going to go to jamie harris kate louis stamford and joe bernardo go

[0:47:25] Voice 6: Go ahead, Jamie.

[0:47:26] Voice 6: I was just kind of waiting to see the motion

[0:47:28] Voice 6: come up on the screen.

[0:47:30] Voice 6: Motion up on the screen, please, Laurie.

[0:47:31] Voice 6: Please and thank you.

[0:47:57] Voice 6: I'll just reflect that the technology

[0:48:01] Voice 6: and the wifi has been particularly problematic

[0:48:04] Voice 6: and that's why we've had some of these delays.

[0:48:09] Voice 6: Thank you very much, Laurie.

[0:48:14] Voice 3: So I could just go ahead and make the motion

[0:48:17] Voice 3: and then we could discuss.

[0:48:18] Voice 3: And that would be the appropriate thing.

[0:48:19] Voice 3: Yes, please.

[0:48:21] Voice 3: I move that trust council request

[0:48:25] Voice 9: Oh, that's not it.

[0:48:31] Voice 9: It's close.

[0:48:32] Voice 9: Next try.

[0:48:41] Trustee Bernardo: While we're waiting for that, I've got a thought.

[0:48:45] Trustee Bernardo: I'm not even sure if it's a suggestion, but there's going to be at least three different motions coming up.

[0:48:50] Trustee Bernardo: Yes.

[0:48:51] Trustee Bernardo: Given the nature of the discussion, I'm wondering if I anticipate they're all going to be about the same subject.

[0:48:57] Trustee Bernardo: project i'm wondering if it makes sense for all of the motions to be up there and then

[0:49:01] Trustee Bernardo: the group can discuss the concepts behind all of them all at the same time because

[0:49:08] Trustee Bernardo: it's all wrestling with the same

[0:49:10] Voice 6: issue and um okay so is that true i don't know that that is true

[0:49:15] Voice 6: okay so um that's it that council you want to deal with these one at a time you want to see

[0:49:21] Voice 6: them all up on the screen and my thought was you put them all up on the screen before they're

[0:49:25] Voice 6: second so lori sorry for the change of direction can you manage that it might be small print

[0:49:36] Voice 5: point of order chair um online i have my hand up yes

[0:49:40] Voice 6: sir go ahead do you wish to uh speak to

[0:49:43] Voice 6: one of the delegations i'm sorry i missed that

[0:49:45] Voice 5: yes i i have a motion prepared regarding one of the

[0:49:50] Voice 5: delegates thank you okay

[0:49:51] Voice 6: now um i'm just going to ask the the obvious question um there appears to

[0:49:56] Voice 6: be maybe a number of motions associated with uh the dennison delegation and i don't know that

[0:50:03] Voice 6: david grant can see that and so is yours similar in uh context or different mine is different

[0:50:11] Voice 6: okay thank you so we'll reserve that one for a second go around

[0:50:15] Voice 9: thank you sir we're waiting for the technology apologies

[0:50:31] Voice 8: a

[0:50:49] Voice 5: suggestion chair is mine is a simple

[0:50:51] Voice 5: motion and not related to the one that's the batch motion perhaps we could do mine first

[0:50:57] Voice 5: david graham i

[0:50:58] Voice 6: think that's very good idea um so i'm going to ask you to speak the motion out

[0:51:03] Voice 6: slowly and clearly so that members of council can hear it over to you david graham thank you

[0:51:09] Voice 5: chair locum and i did have this motion glory but i appreciate she's having trouble so i'll just read

[0:51:14] Voice 5: it fairly slowly um i move that trust council request staff to seek a legal opinion regarding

[0:51:23] Voice 5: regarding the island's thrust obligations

[0:51:26] Voice 5: to uphold collective and individual rights to housing.

[0:51:32] Voice 6: Thank you, David.

[0:51:33] Voice 6: Do I have a seconder for that motion?

[0:51:36] Voice 6: Okay, I see several seconders, Deb Morrison.

[0:51:40] Voice 6: I'm going to ask council,

[0:51:42] Voice 6: did you hear and understand the motion?

[0:51:46] Voice 6: Any concerns?

[0:51:48] Voice 6: So David, can you speak to your motion, please?

[0:51:51] Voice 5: I can, thank you, Chair.

[0:51:53] Voice 5: Keeping in mind, there is a cost to asking legal opinions

[0:51:57] Voice 5: Director Frater suggested the cost could be as high as $3,000.

[0:52:01] Voice 5: So keep that in mind.

[0:52:03] Voice 5: But the implication, if in fact what Delegate Rianne De Silva brought to our attention is

[0:52:10] Voice 5: in fact law, this is huge.

[0:52:14] Voice 5: It may not be, but I don't know.

[0:52:17] Voice 5: And I think I need to know whether what she proposed is in fact a higher level of law

[0:52:22] Voice 5: than what we're experiencing at the trust level.

[0:52:25] Voice 5: So I think it's money well spent, unless it's already been dealt with.

[0:52:30] Voice 6: I think that clarity would be good.

[0:52:33] Voice 6: So I'm going to ask if there's any discussion or questions, or can I take us to the vote on this one?

[0:52:40] Voice 6: Right. It looks like I can. I did get a seconder.

[0:52:45] Voice 6: It was Deb Morrison. And so I'm not seeing any discussion necessary.

[0:52:50] Voice 6: So thank you, David. So I'm going to call for the vote.

[0:52:52] Voice 6: All those in favor and lowering it.

[0:53:00] Voice 6: When David's finished.

[0:53:03] Voice 6: Yeah, so lower your hands again.

[0:53:04] Voice 6: And then online.

[0:53:06] Voice 6: And are there any opposed?

[0:53:07] Voice 6: Please raise your hand.

[0:53:09] Voice 6: Opposed.

[0:53:11] Voice 6: And we have one trustee absent.

[0:53:14] Voice 6: So keep that in mind.

[0:53:15] Voice 6: And so that carries.

[0:53:17] Voice 6: So thank you very much, counsel.

[0:53:19] Voice 6: Thank you very much, David, for bringing that to us.

[0:53:21] Voice 6: And I'm going to turn back to Laurie.

[0:53:24] Voice 6: Excellent.

[0:53:24] Voice 6: Laurie, thank you.

[0:53:25] Voice 6: So we want all three motions, if possible, in one space.

[0:53:30] Voice 6: I realize that might be a challenge sorry we had all three there a moment ago yeah I don't

[0:54:06] Voice 6: throw the mouse out all right thank you so um Mr.

[0:54:51] Trustee Fast: Chair I'm hearing that um my colleague next

[0:54:54] Trustee Fast: door to me's motion is not complete up there yet so uh stand by all

[0:55:54] Voice 9: right so those actually

[0:55:55] Voice 9: Let me see.

[0:56:06] So

[0:56:17] Voice 9: can you summarize there CAO, what we have in front of us?

[0:56:28] Voice 6: So is there somebody that has two motions?

[0:56:31] Voice 6: So Kate Louise Stanford has two motions.

[0:56:34] Voice 6: There are otherwise individual

[0:56:36] Voice 9: single motions.

[0:56:39] Voice 9: And are they complete?

[0:56:45] Voice 9: That

[0:57:15] Voice 6: would be helpful, but I'm nervous

[0:57:17] Voice 6: about editing anything, but yeah, well, CAO, thank you.

[0:57:30] Voice 6: And in an ideal situation would also identify the mover

[0:57:49] Voice 6: yes microphone will have to happen okay

[0:57:53] Voice 2: uh trustee bernardo suggested that these are not moved

[0:57:58] Voice 2: they're discussed first so the name is just to identify who uh the

[0:58:05] Voice 6: proponent yes exactly

[0:58:07] Voice 6: that's

[0:58:08] Voice 6: my intention okay absolutely and

[0:58:15] Voice 5: i

[0:58:21] Voice 6: thought getting a motion by committee was challenging

[0:58:24] Voice 6: Let's have a group of motions by committee.

[0:58:29] Voice 6: When you're ready, please let me know.

[0:58:41] Trustee Bernardo: I'm happy to lead off the discussion

[0:58:46] Trustee Bernardo: with sense with respect to my motion.

[0:58:49] Trustee Bernardo: As you can see, they're all interrelated.

[0:58:54] Voice 6: Okay, so I want to give our council

[0:58:57] Voice 6: the opportunity to read those.

[0:59:01] Voice 6: And then I'm not totally sure how to process

[0:59:04] Voice 6: four motions at once.

[0:59:06] Voice 6: I think that's probably unique in the Islanders Trust,

[0:59:09] Voice 6: if not in Canada, and let's,

[0:59:12] Voice 6: maybe we'll just go to seeking questions of clarity.

[0:59:15] Voice 6: And then I'd like to determine whether or not

[0:59:18] Voice 6: one or more of those motions to the individuals

[0:59:21] Voice 6: to the proponents feel that they need to be advanced

[0:59:25] Voice 6: accordingly or not.

[0:59:27] Voice 6: And so I'm going to open the floor up

[0:59:30] Voice 6: for questions of clarity, Joe Bernardo.

[0:59:32] Voice 6: Thank you.

[0:59:33] Trustee Bernardo: My suggestion, my unorthodox suggestion comes from

[0:59:39] Trustee Bernardo: an awareness that, you know, this, the Donison presentation, the delegation raises some issues

[0:59:46] Trustee Bernardo: that different people are approaching from different angles. It's actually in the interest

[0:59:52] Trustee Bernardo: of efficiency and clarity, it seems to me that we should try to at least initially discuss

[0:59:57] Trustee Bernardo: the delegation in a global fashion.

[1:00:00] Trustee Bernardo: so we can collectively reach a consensus

[1:00:04] Trustee Bernardo: about its relative importance and significance

[1:00:07] Trustee Bernardo: and then how we deal with it, if at all,

[1:00:10] Trustee Bernardo: that's when the motions kick in.

[1:00:11] Trustee Bernardo: So the idea is let's get a grasp on the problem first

[1:00:14] Trustee Bernardo: and then look at the potential ways of resolving it.

[1:00:18] Trustee Bernardo: So speaking to the point I've brought up,

[1:00:21] Trustee Bernardo: I'm basically saying with that motion,

[1:00:24] Trustee Bernardo: we've seen enough to justify getting some legal advice

[1:00:28] Trustee Bernardo: from our lawyers about potential liability and uh i've got some remarks about that

[1:00:36] Trustee Bernardo: i'm going to try to be brief but there are a few things that need to be covered off here

[1:00:41] Trustee Bernardo: i mean with many delegations i think with all due respect there's a gap sometimes between what the

[1:00:47] Trustee Bernardo: person claims and the evidence or authority they cite to support their proposition and usually

[1:00:53] Trustee Bernardo: the proposition is some version that we're not doing our jobs right unless we see things their

[1:00:56] Trustee Bernardo: their way. Mr. Dunison is actually not one of those people. I'm aware that some people here

[1:01:06] Trustee Bernardo: suspect his motives. I think it's important for simply for the purposes of having a clear and

[1:01:11] Trustee Bernardo: dispassionate discussion, the motives of a delegate or their underlying mindset or why

[1:01:17] Trustee Bernardo: they're so committed to their point that they're going to make a delegation are in fact irrelevant.

[1:01:23] Trustee Bernardo: And certainly with respect to Mr. Dunison, we're under no obligation to take what he says at face

[1:01:28] Trustee Bernardo: value in fact it would be wrong for us to take any action relying solely on what he said without

[1:01:35] Trustee Bernardo: verifying it for ourselves so the question before us isn't whether we ought to believe

[1:01:41] Trustee Bernardo: what he says or trust his intentions it's whether he's provided us with information that would lead

[1:01:48] Trustee Bernardo: a reasonable person to think this is something that should be looked into and my point here is

[1:01:55] Trustee Bernardo: Yeah, it is. He's not coming here, he hasn't come here spouting theory and ideology. Instead, he's come and made some very specific allegations of fact. He supported scientific claims by citing what appear to be, because I don't know, but they appear to be recognized leading scientific experts.

[1:02:18] Trustee Bernardo: And more than that, one of his claims is that his assertions can be boiled down basically to one, which is if you compare what we say on the website against what the provincial government's primary documented resource about biodiversity says, there's a discrepancy.

[1:02:40] Trustee Bernardo: What we say is not in accord with what the provincial government says about the same scientific topics.

[1:02:46] Trustee Bernardo: That's the claim.

[1:02:46] Trustee Bernardo: so he also came tuesday uh with dr sally john a scientist and and this is all hearsay in my part

[1:02:59] Trustee Bernardo: where i picked up from various conversations i've had with people as i understand uh a strong

[1:03:03] Trustee Bernardo: supportive islands trust who has a history of working with us and who again other people would

[1:03:12] Trustee Bernardo: know better than me about this so but my understanding is um from things that i've heard

[1:03:18] Trustee Bernardo: that she warned the Islands Trust some years ago,

[1:03:22] Trustee Bernardo: and I note that years ago,

[1:03:25] Trustee Bernardo: that against relying specifically on the CDF claims

[1:03:28] Trustee Bernardo: that we ended up actually eventually putting up

[1:03:30] Trustee Bernardo: on the website in any case.

[1:03:33] Trustee Bernardo: Is Minister Dunison right?

[1:03:35] Trustee Bernardo: I don't know.

[1:03:36] Trustee Bernardo: I can't say that.

[1:03:37] Trustee Bernardo: I don't think anybody here is in a position to say that

[1:03:40] Trustee Bernardo: because he's invoking scientific points

[1:03:45] Trustee Bernardo: that are beyond, I think, the expertise of all of us

[1:03:48] Trustee Bernardo: or certainly most of us, for sure.

[1:03:50] Trustee Bernardo: beyond mine. The issue, the way I see it, is if he's right, and that's something I'm stipulating

[1:04:00] Trustee Bernardo: for the purposes of analysis, if he's correct, Dr. John is the witness in a court case that would

[1:04:06] Trustee Bernardo: make life extremely difficult for us. Is there going to be a court case? I don't know. But what

[1:04:14] Trustee Bernardo: I do know from professional experience that requests for money that are put side by side

[1:04:23] Trustee Bernardo: with statements that are misrepresentations or are misrepresentations by omission in the sense

[1:04:34] Trustee Bernardo: that they're just misleading. It's extremely dangerous. I don't know if there's going to be

[1:04:42] Trustee Bernardo: a court case. I don't even know whether one's likely. I don't know whether or not we really

[1:04:48] Trustee Bernardo: have any potential liability. That's not my area. But what I can say is the issue he's brought up,

[1:04:57] Trustee Bernardo: The scientific issue he's brought up is a latent potential liability, and I'd like to know what the answer to that is.

[1:05:05] Trustee Bernardo: That's why I'm suggesting that basically he's posed a question that I think a reasonable person would recognize needs to be answered.

[1:05:16] Trustee Bernardo: He's identified what I believe is a potentially serious risk, potentially, and we're not in a position to dismiss what he says.

[1:05:25] Trustee Bernardo: it's it's that's i think as far as we can go at this stage and if this was a private

[1:05:34] Trustee Bernardo: board of directors meeting uh i don't think there'd be any dispute about the fact that the

[1:05:39] Trustee Bernardo: directors and the board would have a duty to check into what he's saying that's where i'm coming from

[1:05:44] Trustee Bernardo: that's why i'm proposing that we proceed with getting legal advice about what he said now it's

[1:05:50] Trustee Bernardo: It's implicit in what I'm saying is for legal counsel to provide a legal opinion about the potential effect of any inaccurate scientific claims that we have.

[1:06:03] Trustee Bernardo: That is, if they're inaccurate, then nothing I should say should be viewed as endorsing the idea that there is.

[1:06:13] Trustee Bernardo: All I'm endorsing is the idea that there's a potential risk.

[1:06:15] Trustee Bernardo: risk. In order for legal counsel to provide an opinion about that, the other stuff that's being

[1:06:22] Trustee Bernardo: discussed in the other resolutions or proposed motions, that's going to have to be a component

[1:06:28] Trustee Bernardo: of it. The lawyers will have to consult some form of expertise. They could always go off and

[1:06:36] Trustee Bernardo: just hire the expert, or they could hire the expert in consultation with us. That just becomes

[1:06:43] Trustee Bernardo: of the methodological thing so with along with my motion i would be supportive of some i don't think

[1:06:49] Trustee Bernardo: we need all three of those but some version of those three one of you know if we could come up

[1:06:54] Trustee Bernardo: with a single resolution that drills into the substance of what mr dunnison is saying it comes

[1:06:59] Trustee Bernardo: back to us but also comes back to the lawyers i i'd support that as well so that's what i've got

[1:07:05] Trustee Bernardo: to say about that so thank you for uh listening okay

[1:07:11] Voice 9: thank you um

[1:07:12] Voice 6: i appreciate you um trustee

[1:07:16] Voice 6: bernardo bringing your expertise to help us focus on the uh the issue at hand um i was anticipating

[1:07:24] Voice 6: we might have a discussion from questions or clarity from council about what we see up on

[1:07:31] Voice 6: the screen i see that you've really spoken to your motion and so i think in fairness i need to offer

[1:07:38] Voice 6: that opportunity to the other individuals and i think in fairness with no um bias whatsoever

[1:07:45] Voice 6: The motions have ended up on a list on the screen in a particular order.

[1:07:50] Voice 6: Just want to recognize that.

[1:07:52] Voice 6: So no offense to anybody.

[1:07:53] Voice 6: I think I'm just going to continue through that list.

[1:07:56] Voice 6: This is the most obvious way to do that with no bias.

[1:07:59] Voice 6: And then we can then bring that back to the table to have some kind of a discussion that

[1:08:06] Voice 6: will facilitate us advancing one or more of the motions.

[1:08:10] Voice 6: And then indeed we'll go from there.

[1:08:13] Voice 6: So that said, item number two, I'm believing that that's Kate Louise Stanford.

[1:08:21] Voice 18: I'll just speak to the two motions that I have there.

[1:08:25] Voice 18: It is very difficult to follow a trained lawyer after their disposition.

[1:08:34] Voice 18: I'm not going to be as eloquent.

[1:08:36] Voice 18: I can't do that.

[1:08:38] Voice 18: I do believe that we need to look at our website.

[1:08:43] Voice 18: I think staff also see that as how it is seen by external people, and I would like to see them review the website, pull off things that may be of concern, and have it checked and brought it back on.

[1:09:00] Voice 18: That's what I'm looking at, that if there are concerns around the designation questions, that they are reviewed.

[1:09:08] Voice 18: I am not comfortable with connecting it specifically to Mr. Denison.

[1:09:13] Voice 18: Mr. Dennison is not a scientist. I am not a scientist. I think that Mr. Dennison's issues

[1:09:20] Voice 18: are with the province and how the province determines forest designations and I hope that

[1:09:27] Voice 18: he can take up his discussions with them. We get our information from the province. That's how I

[1:09:34] Voice 18: would like to see us operate. Science, especially biology, is an iterative process. It's in a

[1:09:42] Voice 18: a constant state of flux and as new information is accumulated and different ways of approaching

[1:09:47] Voice 18: a problem or a designation including different groups of forest types are considered new

[1:09:54] Voice 18: conclusions are made at all times nobody's wrong nobody's right i am concerned about having um

[1:10:02] Voice 18: a battle of the scientists i don't think that's helpful for us or any or the or our constituents

[1:10:09] Voice 18: It's very expensive. I have seen two equally experienced, qualified scientists battle it out at Supreme Court level, and nobody wins.

[1:10:21] Voice 18: But both of them are right. Both of them are wrong. It's the way science works.

[1:10:26] Voice 18: So I have these up here. I think it would help inform us as a council, the intricacies of biology, especially around forest ecosystems, and get a sense of where science is going with this particular designation process. Thank you.

[1:10:50] Voice 6: Right. Thank you. So now I'll go to Trustee Harris to speak to his motion. I haven't asked anybody to move a motion yet, or I'm not seeking seconders, because then that becomes owned by council. So just speak to the motion, please.

[1:11:06] Voice 6: Thank you.

[1:11:12] Voice 3: so this motion is similar to the two prior but i think it's very important that we and i'm more

[1:11:24] Voice 3: than willing to amalgamate these um how we do that i'm not exactly positive but i think one of the

[1:11:34] Voice 3: one of the main parts if if this was going to be amalgamated the main part of motion four

[1:11:42] Voice 3: would be that we use the the scientists and authorities that david donison cited in his

[1:11:53] Voice 3: delegation specifically dell menninger will mckenzie who is the custodian of the bec

[1:12:00] Voice 3: classification system in which the cdf zone lies in is part of the custode the provincial custodian

[1:12:08] Voice 3: for ministry of forest of the bec system this is basically the guy he's here in bc

[1:12:16] Voice 3: makes sense to use what he has to say bob green as well i think as david dunstan he put forth

[1:12:27] Voice 3: quite a good argument on as to why what bob green had to say was a gospel um now the first part of

[1:12:37] Voice 3: of the motion that I proposed basically goes off the motion

[1:12:41] Voice 3: that we had passed in the December trust council meeting

[1:12:45] Voice 3: where we moved the David Dunison work with staff

[1:12:48] Voice 3: to work on the carbon sequestration claims

[1:12:53] Voice 3: or data on IT promotional material.

[1:12:58] Voice 3: So it seems that it would be appropriate

[1:13:03] Voice 3: that he would continue to work and just expand that work

[1:13:06] Voice 3: since he has put in so much, it's basically humbling to me

[1:13:10] Voice 3: And impressive, the work that he's done, consulting with and citing the appropriate experts.

[1:13:18] Voice 3: You know, he's a resource.

[1:13:21] Voice 3: And this isn't something he's clearly, he's into conservation and improving forest health.

[1:13:28] Voice 3: He's not an enemy by any means, nor am I.

[1:13:34] Voice 3: And, you know, if it's that we put two or three motions passed, I'm fine.

[1:13:40] Voice 3: if we amalgamate these somehow but i'm you know i'm keen to see um the the big parts of uh my

[1:13:48] Voice 3: motion added into

[1:13:50] Voice 6: that okay thank you um before we go into a more rounded conversation here about

[1:13:57] Voice 6: what to do with these four motions i i think i do want to ask for uh some advice from staff in the

[1:14:06] Voice 6: Not in what the content of the motions are, but the fact that we've got four motions that could stand alone, have some differences amongst them.

[1:14:17] Voice 6: Do you have any advice on advancing all the motions and then sorting out how we're going to handle it at the staff level?

[1:14:26] Voice 6: Or what would your advice be to do with this four motion single topic?

[1:14:33] Voice 6: Can I say anything I want?

[1:14:37] Voice 6: Absolutely. Anytime. Oh, sorry.

[1:14:42] Trustee Bernardo: I want to be really clear about something. I didn't suggest this in order to derail anything. And let's be clear about something. At this moment, none of them are motions.

[1:14:51] Trustee Bernardo: No, I understand that.

[1:14:52] Trustee Bernardo: All they are is statements. And what they are right now is statements around which we can have, I think, a fruitful discussion. And then at some point, I think we can move on to the next point of saying, okay, we're actually going to turn something here, maybe into a motion. Now, if proceeding in that fashion, people aren't comfortable with it, that's fine. I guess we'll have to just deal with them one at a time as motions. But let's be clear, we don't have a motion on the floor yet on anything.

[1:15:20] Trustee Bernardo: That

[1:15:22] Voice 6: is clear. I'm just seeking some advice on what you're suggesting is that this council craft a motion from these four.

[1:15:32] Voice 6: That's not what I'm suggesting.

[1:15:33] Trustee Bernardo: Fair enough.

[1:15:34] Trustee Bernardo: What I'm suggesting is this council discuss that presentation, which is a complex one and a difficult one, in a global, holistic fashion so that we can reach what is the right disposition for it.

[1:15:50] Trustee Bernardo: we've got elements to it and my sense is if we deal with the elements separately we're at risk

[1:15:55] Trustee Bernardo: of missing the bigger picture um that's the point so i'm just trying to encourage a wide-ranging

[1:16:02] Trustee Bernardo: fruitful discussion there's and when the time comes to deal with what will or will not be

[1:16:09] Trustee Bernardo: emotion for example somebody could come up with some magical thing that convinces me that my

[1:16:14] Trustee Bernardo: motion is completely misconceived and i would withdraw the idea uh i don't know if that's

[1:16:20] Trustee Bernardo: going to happen but it seems to me that that way we can i'm hoping to have a proper deliberation

[1:16:25] Trustee Bernardo: on this that's all okay

[1:16:29] Voice 6: thank you uh my question still stands as staff have any advice before we

[1:16:34] Voice 6: continue on a deliberation on these four ideas i

[1:16:39] Voice 4: think at the end of the day after that conversation

[1:16:42] Voice 4: you would have a header say something to the effect of to address the perceived or not

[1:16:49] Voice 4: inconsistencies associated with presentation by so-and-so the following actions are recommended

[1:16:53] Voice 4: and you go to a b c d or something like that so that they each could stand on their own but they're

[1:16:57] Voice 4: a totality of thought thank

[1:17:00] Voice 6: you associate with the project that's what i was looking for is a

[1:17:03] Voice 6: little focus okay so let's open the floor up um what let's just get our hands up who wants to

[1:17:10] Voice 6: speak to any and all of these and i'm just going to or we could do that too not everybody necessarily

[1:17:16] Voice 6: wants to speak so i'm going to start with deb morrison this side keep your hands up please

[1:17:20] Voice 6: and i'm just going to get them to start um all

[1:17:26] Voice 20: right i'll dive in um hands up please so

[1:17:30] Voice 20: i first of all i want to thank mr dunison and all the folks that came because some of these

[1:17:35] Voice 20: are interrelated i would argue that actually this disposition is interrelated with the two

[1:17:39] Voice 20: the procedure

[1:17:40] Voice 6: thank you trustees um

[1:17:42] Voice 20: you have an open mic just beware um so um the the these are

[1:17:47] Voice 20: related to the um two prior ones by the gulf island alliance and raincoats conservation in

[1:17:53] Voice 20: terms of biodiversity because the issues that were being addressed were issues around biodiversity

[1:17:58] Voice 20: carbon sequestration and forest management and forestry types of science and knowledge

[1:18:06] Voice 20: And I caution us, I think I echo what Trustee Stanford said, I caution us on being the judge and jury of the scientific community.

[1:18:19] Voice 20: And so, and as a member of the scientific community, I caution us on doing that.

[1:18:25] Voice 20: So what I do think is more of an issue in this space is that what data that we are using at an LTC level to make decisions, we have to justify at an LTC level.

[1:18:42] Voice 20: level. And I feel like at that moment, that's where the sort of science hits the road. But at

[1:18:49] Voice 20: this global trust council level, I feel this is well outside our jurisdiction to start weighing

[1:18:54] Voice 20: in on who's right or wrong. I just, I don't feel that's in our, that's our purview, frankly.

[1:19:01] Voice 20: I do think that we need to make clear on our website. So I would support potentially the

[1:19:07] Voice 20: for the second motion um i do think that we need to make clear on our website that we aren't

[1:19:15] Voice 20: overstating something um because i think uh mr dennison had some good points about making sure

[1:19:21] Voice 20: that we're not saying it's the only or it's the rarest or whatever we don't need to do that it's

[1:19:25] Voice 20: wonderful and we want to protect it like that's the message on its own so and i he agreed with

[1:19:31] Voice 20: at that like when I pressed on that that was we share that idea so I think that from my point of

[1:19:38] Voice 20: view ensuring that what we're communicating is clear and is cited like to different sources and

[1:19:45] Voice 20: to a variety of sources to to trustee Harris's point that we're not necessarily going to just

[1:19:51] Voice 20: a single source but that we're having a plethora of sources that we're citing this information into

[1:19:56] Voice 20: to so it's a learning portal for people to dig into and understand different perspectives on

[1:20:01] Voice 20: science so anyway i i would support number two i don't actually like the idea of one or four

[1:20:09] Voice 20: sorry um but i i'm not a big fan of us going for legal action related to the to because we're

[1:20:16] Voice 20: deciding who's right or wrong and why are we doing that and then the fourth one i don't support

[1:20:21] Voice 20: because I don't want to name a singular person as a person.

[1:20:30] Trustee Bernardo: What is your point of order?

[1:20:32] Trustee Bernardo: My point of order is that Trustee Morrison has mischaracterized the purpose

[1:20:36] Trustee Bernardo: and the content of the first statement.

[1:20:40] Trustee Bernardo: It's not contemplating that we take legal action.

[1:20:44] Trustee Bernardo: It's contemplating that we get advice about what degree of jeopardy we face today, if any.

[1:20:51] Trustee Bernardo: Okay,

[1:20:52] Voice 20: sorry, I was trying to go action.

[1:20:54] Voice 9: Sorry, did I say that?

[1:20:55] Voice 6: Okay, thank you, Trustee Morson.

[1:20:58] Voice 6: Thank you, Trustee Bernardo.

[1:21:03] Voice 6: You're concluded, Susan Yates.

[1:21:07] Voice 21: Thank you, Chair Luckham.

[1:21:10] Voice 21: In the previous motion,

[1:21:12] Voice 21: in order to support the Islands Trust obligation to housing,

[1:21:18] Voice 21: we more or less committed a possible amount of,

[1:21:22] Voice 21: I think they said $3,000 to check to have legal advice on our obligation.

[1:21:29] Voice 21: That was with regard to Rianne's delegation.

[1:21:33] Voice 21: So that's fine.

[1:21:35] Voice 21: That seemed pretty straightforward.

[1:21:39] Voice 21: Looking at these four possible motions,

[1:21:43] Voice 21: I definitely support number two and number three as priority motions,

[1:21:50] Voice 21: if we turn them into motions.

[1:21:52] Voice 21: because if we do number two and number three,

[1:21:55] Voice 21: then hopefully we do not need to spend any money

[1:21:58] Voice 21: on legal counsel to look at number one.

[1:22:03] Voice 21: And I'm not in favor of four for basically ethical reasons.

[1:22:08] Voice 21: Thank you.

[1:22:09] Voice 21: Thank you.

[1:22:11] Voice 25: Dag Falk.

[1:22:14] Voice 25: Yeah, thank you.

[1:22:15] Voice 25: And that making very similar point here

[1:22:17] Voice 25: and for the purposes of addressing potential liability

[1:22:21] Voice 25: and saving cost if two and three leads to the trust council believing that changes need to be

[1:22:33] Voice 25: made to the website that would remove Mr. Donison's concerns then we would the potential

[1:22:43] Voice 25: liability would be removed and so I in my view that is a possibility and there's a lot less cost

[1:22:52] Voice 25: than getting a legal opinion and if we can't if it if it doesn't lead there we still have that option

[1:22:58] Voice 25: thank you toby elliott uh

[1:23:03] Voice 17: thank you i do concur with the two previous um speakers i think two

[1:23:08] Voice 17: and three are definitely worth investigating and further that we consider well it is part of our

[1:23:14] Voice 17: mandate to educate and provide information about how to steward and look after that and so if we

[1:23:21] Voice 17: need to do that better um i think the website does need improvement and whatever if you know if number

[1:23:29] Voice 17: three is moved a presentation to trustees but also that this is available to the public so we make

[1:23:34] Voice 17: this part of a public conversation on forest health the significance of forests and all of that

[1:23:40] Voice 17: and it's not just for us so that's all i have to say thank

[1:23:45] Voice 6: you judith katty okay so

[1:23:50] Voice 1: um i guess

[1:23:55] Voice 1: from the um from a court perspective um the in terms of expert witnesses and the battling

[1:24:04] Voice 1: scientists that get called as experts in litigation um mr um all right i've forgotten

[1:24:15] Voice 1: his name sorry dunsmith um we've had um we we provide a podium we give somebody 15 minutes

[1:24:24] Voice 1: they have us as an audience and anybody that's listening in we don't have an opportunity to

[1:24:30] Voice 1: check the credentials we don't have an opportunity to ask types of cross-examination questions

[1:24:37] Voice 1: we don't have help of counsel in terms of sorting out fact from opinion and I guess my problem is

[1:24:46] Voice 1: that I'm too linear I'm too logical I pick words apart and I really struggled with that

[1:24:54] Voice 1: presentation and I have lost sleep over the last couple of nights in terms of wanting to be

[1:25:02] Voice 1: respectful because I think that this gentleman was very sincere and believes what he has presented

[1:25:10] Voice 1: but I don't have I don't think sincerity necessarily translates into a valid and reliable

[1:25:18] Voice 1: reliable opinion and I don't feel that he gave us enough that solid evidence and then we get

[1:25:26] Voice 1: into the whole thing in terms of battling scientists in terms of methodology and background

[1:25:31] Voice 1: and experience and credibility and all the rest of it so I think that there's a real problem in

[1:25:40] Voice 1: terms of us accepting at face value the information that we were given and what we want to do with

[1:25:48] Voice 1: that so if it's going to be um you know the fourth motion is talking about um you know challenging

[1:25:56] Voice 1: the whole idea of um whether or not there should be conservancy of of this particular type of tree

[1:26:02] Voice 1: or this particular zone of forest or something i think that that's a very um that raises a whole

[1:26:10] Voice 1: whole lot of other more difficulties, I think, for me. So I can go through point by point in all

[1:26:19] Voice 1: of his, and I've gone through all of his slides that he used on the presentation, and I have

[1:26:26] Voice 1: difficulty with probably every single one of them. So I would caution us in terms of

[1:26:33] Voice 1: of drinking the Kool-Aid and taking a whole lot of steps beyond.

[1:26:41] Voice 1: We don't know. We don't have the evidence.

[1:26:42] Voice 1: We don't have the expertise to accept it or not.

[1:26:45] Voice 1: And if we're going to go down the road of finding out whether or not it's

[1:26:48] Voice 1: valid and it's something that we should rely on before we change our policies

[1:26:53] Voice 1: or change our websites or change the donation buttons or whatever it is that

[1:27:00] Voice 1: is being challenged um i think we need to sort out whether or not that's a top priority whether

[1:27:07] Voice 1: or not that's something we want to spend time and energy and money on and for what purpose where's

[1:27:12] Voice 1: it going to get us um if we're uh trying to sort out um what the problem is here and what it is

[1:27:23] Voice 1: that um this gentleman very sincerely is trying to present to us whether or not we can accept it

[1:27:30] Voice 1: I think that's one issue in terms of getting that kind of advice. And that takes us down a whole other rabbit hole in terms of if he is, in fact, saying that there is a liability, I don't see that connection at all.

[1:27:45] Voice 1: all, but then that might be something that the scientists, if we get, I'm not sure how

[1:27:53] Voice 1: much effort we should put into this, but if we get some sort of scientific opinion in

[1:27:58] Voice 1: terms of the validity and the reliability of what he's saying, maybe that would suggest

[1:28:02] Voice 1: that we've got some liability, but I have a very, very hard time with accepting on face

[1:28:11] Voice 1: value um the um that that presentation and the one that we had before we've had 30 minutes of

[1:28:19] Voice 1: time from this person in terms of whether or not that's uh enough for us to start changing

[1:28:24] Voice 1: direction in any way or shape or form so i think he's um he had he had the podium he has the

[1:28:30] Voice 1: audience and and um he certainly made us think about it but i'm not sure um how much farther

[1:28:36] Voice 1: do we want to go with it?

[1:28:37] Voice 6: Okay, thank you. And your microphone off. And Laura Patrick.

[1:28:43] Trustee Patrick: Well, thank you, Judy. Absolutely. We need to do the best of our effort to make sure what's

[1:28:49] Trustee Patrick: on our websites is correct. And that's a constant thing. But what we're missing here,

[1:28:54] Trustee Patrick: and what's not reflected at all on the screen is the opportunity side. When we sit and try to argue

[1:29:00] Trustee Patrick: science to anyone, there's going to be the yin and yang that science comes, but we're missing

[1:29:06] Trustee Patrick: the human values and i think that's one of the things mr dunison is he's a marketing expert

[1:29:11] Trustee Patrick: that's one thing we have in agreement in our communities we have strong agreement on the value

[1:29:16] Trustee Patrick: of the ecosystems and the forests and the health of the forests and and our and our place in it

[1:29:22] Trustee Patrick: so we could spend a lot of time defending as we choose where our priorities are or you know we

[1:29:29] Trustee Patrick: can also improve our language and and really go for that valued heartstring that might help us

[1:29:35] Trustee Patrick: get to a better place thank

[1:29:38] Voice 6: you laura um cheryl fast jamie harris and marie boland thank

[1:29:45] Trustee Fast: you chair

[1:29:46] Trustee Fast: aaron campbell

[1:29:47] Trustee Fast: thank you chair i'm um uh i'll just uh i'll be brief a couple of points i'm

[1:29:54] Trustee Fast: in um i'm interested in numbers two and three for many of the points that people have mentioned

[1:30:00] Trustee Fast: here um for clarity for i i mean periodic review is good idea maybe there's some things we need to

[1:30:08] Trustee Fast: update um maybe there's some things that are even rarer uh we don't know um if uh there's a problem

[1:30:17] Trustee Fast: let alone what the problems are and um so i'm in favor of uh two or three two and three and then

[1:30:24] Trustee Fast: And depending on that, what comes out of two and three, I might be interested in doing number one, depending on what the outcome is.

[1:30:35] Trustee Fast: So I'm just thinking about the progression here and the staging, the work, and thinking about what the body of evidence tells us.

[1:30:43] Trustee Fast: Or because science evolves, I'm keen to look at how having a legal opinion, if we get one, might actually help us with the trust policy statement work and other changing aspects of how people view conservation and its importance.

[1:31:09] Trustee Fast: like the COP 15, the Montreal Protocol Agreement on Biodiversity, for example.

[1:31:14] Trustee Fast: And so things are changing. It's a good idea to get a review.

[1:31:18] Trustee Fast: My question for staff is, I know it might be difficult to say,

[1:31:23] Trustee Fast: but would you have any expectation about how much number one might cost the trust?

[1:31:33] Voice 9: So

[1:31:34] Voice 19: it depends. We're looking at the products.

[1:31:35] Voice 19: In some cases, it should be a fairly straightforward fix to amend the language.

[1:31:40] Voice 19: In some cases, they are designed products.

[1:31:42] Voice 19: products so it may be that we'll have to you know um go to a graphic designer or buy a software

[1:31:47] Voice 19: license temporarily to do that fix in terms of cost oh legal opinion i'm sorry i'm legal opinion

[1:31:54] Voice 19: i think would be in the range of three to four thousand dollars likely sorry i'd

[1:32:02] Voice 4: be excited if

[1:32:03] Voice 4: i was young anderson i saw this one because there's a fair amount of room here um for

[1:32:08] Voice 4: consideration and some fair amount of research so i'd say three to five just as a as an initial

[1:32:14] Voice 4: guess thank

[1:32:16] Voice 6: you i'm going to go to the next speaker if you're completed there and that's

[1:32:19] Voice 6: jamie harris thank

[1:32:21] Voice 3: you mr chair so i'm partially shocked um at the uh the difficulty people have

[1:32:32] Voice 3: had um you know grasping the the information that donison had um had put in front of us

[1:32:43] Voice 3: and it wasn't his opinion he was citing provincial experts i'll repeat it again the

[1:32:52] Voice 3: custodian of the bec system in which the cdf zone is a part of and this isn't about conservation

[1:33:02] Voice 3: or a certain kind of tree not being um you know worthy of uh some kind of consideration

[1:33:08] Voice 3: But on the Islands Trust website and on literature from the Islands Trust offices, there are statements, one of which, we just focus on one, that states Douglas fir forests, as well as other ecosystems, are found nowhere else in the world.

[1:33:37] Voice 3: Well, it's pretty easy to draw the conclusion from Will McKenzie, Del Mettinger, and Bob Green, the authorities on the BEC system, and their maps that show the CDF zone is in Washington State, Oregon, and Douglas fir forests are in Washington State, Oregon, and Northern California.

[1:34:04] Voice 3: now that clearly is somewhere else in the world not nowhere else in the world and then there's a

[1:34:12] Voice 3: donate button at the bottom of that page now you know if everybody wants to say let's roll the dice

[1:34:19] Voice 3: and wait for the lawyers to fire up yeah i'm that's fine but in my mind this is pretty cut and

[1:34:26] Voice 3: dry um you know to further it you

[1:34:34] Voice 6: have a point of order um so i have to acknowledge the point

[1:34:38] Voice 6: of order jamie can you just turn your microphone off i'm

[1:34:41] Voice 20: sorry chair do we need to go in camera

[1:34:43] Voice 20: for a discussion of litigation or uh is that something that i know i it's the question that

[1:34:48] Voice 20: we had earlier i just want clarification if we need to are

[1:34:51] Voice 6: we is there a necessity to go

[1:34:53] Voice 6: in camera on this no uh

[1:34:55] Voice 22: there's no litigationists no thank

[1:34:57] Voice 6: you um

[1:34:59] Voice 3: jamie back to you thank you so

[1:35:02] Voice 3: So just on that basis alone, what I just stated there, my motion seems, as far as I'm concerned, very, very relevant.

[1:35:12] Voice 3: And to go to number two, well, we had something similar to that a couple or a few years ago, and that's why we're sitting here right now.

[1:35:21] Voice 3: Staff was directed to review with provincial forest ecologists, and they did, and nothing was done.

[1:35:28] Voice 3: And I've heard from staff this week that there's nothing wrong here in the

[1:35:34] Voice 3: literature or on the website.

[1:35:37] Voice 3: So how do I trust that anything else is going to happen and we're not going to

[1:35:41] Voice 3: be back here again, or maybe

[1:35:43] Voice 6: just lower your voice a little bit.

[1:35:45] Voice 6: I'll move the microphone or,

[1:35:49] Voice 3: or be in the position of, of, of legal action taking place.

[1:35:54] Voice 3: Like it's to me, it's a very, very simple,

[1:35:57] Voice 3: this isn't an attack on anybody it's trying to prevent,

[1:36:00] Voice 3: an attack on our organization.

[1:36:03] Voice 6: I guess I'll leave it at that for now. Thanks.

[1:36:06] Voice 6: Yeah. So I'll just say clearly there's multiple points of view and I think we have to respect

[1:36:11] Voice 6: that. So I'm going to continue on my speaker's list, which is Marie Boland.

[1:36:18] Voice 2: Thank you. I like the motions or the proposed motions or the statements that are up there

[1:36:25] Voice 2: which focus on getting advice on the level of risk without judgment as to whether that risk

[1:36:32] Voice 2: risk really exists or not and secondly educating ourselves and using provincial experts to do that

[1:36:39] Voice 2: and I like what Toby you know suggested yes and we should make it a public information session

[1:36:46] Voice 2: maybe you know the Orange Trust Conservancy can run it as one of their webinars whatever

[1:36:52] Voice 2: but I do take issue with the fact that first of all David Donison is a scientist I'm a scientist

[1:36:59] Voice 2: there are many scientists around the table he is a scientist he is respected by these people he

[1:37:05] Voice 2: contacted them they responded to him extensively so the people that we are going to for opinions

[1:37:12] Voice 2: and provincial experts have engaged with him extensively on this topic they have not dismissed

[1:37:17] Voice 2: him so that to me lends credibility to what he's saying and the last thing i'll say is that his

[1:37:24] Voice 2: His first outing was on the subject of the factual inaccuracy, the numeric inaccuracy of calculations done to calculate carbon storage.

[1:37:34] Voice 2: And that was the lead off. He noticed that and went, holy smokes, how can this be true?

[1:37:40] Voice 2: And he dug around into the facts, into the statistical analysis.

[1:37:45] Voice 2: And people who are statisticians could look at that and agree that what was done was a mistake.

[1:37:51] Voice 2: and that has already been corrected in the Ireland Stress website so we have already accepted that

[1:37:58] Voice 2: some of what he has proposed was correct and that was achieved by David Dunnison working with staff

[1:38:05] Voice 2: in a very collaborative way so I feel that we really need to build on that and not go down the

[1:38:12] Voice 2: rabbit hole of seeing this as a divisive thing he has brought forward very valid things we could

[1:38:19] Voice 2: consult with provincial experts he's named the ones that he thinks are the best but arguably we

[1:38:26] Voice 2: could broaden the scope and work through get advice which isn't terribly expensive I say that

[1:38:34] Voice 2: with advisedly but I hope so my taxpayers aren't listening but anyway then go on to

[1:38:40] Voice 2: really evaluating the information and bringing ourselves up to speed to an end I mean it behoves

[1:38:48] Voice 2: us all to understand more anyway because it is sort of in our what they call it in our

[1:38:55] Voice 2: tool shed whatever that we should really understand some of this better than we do

[1:39:00] Voice 2: so you know but i just want to defend and make the points that david dennison is a scientist

[1:39:06] Voice 2: his first outing was a factual error in the statistical calculation which has been

[1:39:12] Voice 2: accepted and he is deeply respected and engaged with by provincial experts thank you

[1:39:19] Voice 6: Thank you. Aaron Campbell.

[1:39:27] Voice 23: I just, I feel like there's been a bit of a disservice to Joe's motion done by lumping all four of them on the same page together.

[1:39:37] Voice 23: That's on me.

[1:39:38] Voice 23: That

[1:39:38] Voice 6: was his idea.

[1:39:39] Voice 23: Okay, it's your fault.

[1:39:42] Voice 23: But I think that number one speaks to a completely different topic than two, three, and four.

[1:39:49] Voice 23: Number one is about finding out if we have any legal liability in the information that has come up through David Dunnison's delegation.

[1:40:01] Voice 23: And that is a serious topic.

[1:40:06] Voice 23: Whether there isn't really a debate to that.

[1:40:11] Voice 23: And two, three and four don't really change anything about what number one is.

[1:40:17] Voice 23: whether we get information out of two three and four that will not change anything to do with

[1:40:25] Voice 23: what's going on in number one you will not be able to go back and say but we got some information

[1:40:31] Voice 23: from these people and that does not make us legally liable legal liability in situations

[1:40:37] Voice 23: like this constitutes fraud i've actually been through it in other situations and it doesn't

[1:40:44] Voice 23: matter whether you can say it didn't have anything to do with me or it did have something to do with

[1:40:52] Voice 23: me knowledge-wise it still comes down to that being an issue and it is something that for

[1:40:59] Voice 23: three thousand dollars is money well spent to make sure that you know that you're in the right

[1:41:05] Voice 23: position thank

[1:41:08] Voice 9: you aaron uh

[1:41:10] Voice 6: kate louise stanford joe bernardo and dag hulk and kirsteen evans

[1:41:17] Voice 6: Speaking

[1:41:20] Voice 18: to Trustee Campbell, I think the idea that overall, what is our responsibility of our communications to the public? How much does it feed into their decision making? And that's where the liability comes in. And that's the question that we want to answer. It's not specific to CDF or anything specific on the website. It's in general. What responsibility does our website have?

[1:41:47] Voice 18: no the

[1:41:49] Voice 23: fact that there are donation buttons attached to that information if anyone has

[1:41:56] Voice 23: decides that they feel that they have been misled to making a donation and if that donation is more

[1:42:06] Voice 23: than three to five thousand dollars i forget what the specific donation amount is that is

[1:42:12] Voice 23: is a federally investigatable offense.

[1:42:17] Voice 18: So I think that speaks to the same thing,

[1:42:20] Voice 18: that it doesn't matter if it's on the CDF page or any other page.

[1:42:24] Voice 18: It could be the same.

[1:42:27] Voice 6: You know, I've got some staff advice to help us here.

[1:42:34] Voice 6: Perhaps he's going to say what I want to say.

[1:42:36] Voice 4: Well, now I'm starting to think you are having legal conversations.

[1:42:39] Voice 4: that someone's going to you know it's a great um as this if this conversation unfolds not that

[1:42:49] Voice 4: it's factual or it might might be factual you could be wandering into some sort of legal

[1:42:57] Voice 4: space or jeopardy associated with sure yeah

[1:43:02] Voice 6: so just let's try and contain the conversation so

[1:43:06] Voice 6: that we don't have to end up in that legal space unless we unless we purposefully go into that

[1:43:11] Voice 6: that space and let no just a moment let me finish all right thank you unless we want to purposefully

[1:43:18] Voice 6: go into that space and we have a lot of opinions and we have some legal opinions however do we

[1:43:27] Voice 6: have necessarily uh content specific or topic specific legal expertise here um so let's just

[1:43:38] Voice 6: be careful let's try and keep this conversation going on and unless we make a motion to go in

[1:43:42] Voice 6: camera to have this conversation let's try and keep it within the range of acceptable possibility

[1:43:48] Voice 6: now your point of order sir my

[1:43:54] Trustee Bernardo: point is it's not appropriate mr chair to attempt to circumscribe

[1:44:00] Trustee Bernardo: the debate by saying it's inconvenient or we really don't want to go to an in-camera session

[1:44:05] Trustee Bernardo: we don't want to we don't want to discuss pointed and potentially difficult issues of legal liability

[1:44:12] Trustee Bernardo: for the sake of what having a smoother conversation no if it's an issue then we've got to deal with it

[1:44:22] Trustee Bernardo: and if we have to deal with it in camera then we deal with it in camera that's why i thought we

[1:44:28] Trustee Bernardo: needed to discuss this in camera in the first instance so i'd like to get some clarity from

[1:44:33] Trustee Bernardo: director marler and from the ceo about whether or not further debate in this getting a little

[1:44:40] Trustee Bernardo: deeper into potential liability questions whether it's prudent to enter into an in-camera session

[1:44:44] Trustee Bernardo: or not we're in their hands in that respect um

[1:44:55] Voice 4: well david will start and i'll do you want to

[1:44:57] Voice 4: start do you have a thought and i'll back it back it up yeah

[1:45:03] Voice 22: so the the discussion um if you're

[1:45:06] Voice 22: you know talking generally about the website and uh you know concerns around it that's an open

[1:45:12] Voice 22: meeting if you start to identify an individual with potential litigation then there is the

[1:45:17] Voice 22: the ability to win camera for that, but that's more specific.

[1:45:21] Voice 22: So you'd have to ask yourselves, is that what you want to do?

[1:45:24] Voice 22: You want to talk about specific situations where there's potential for litigation,

[1:45:30] Voice 22: then you can win camera for that.

[1:45:31] Voice 22: To

[1:45:34] Trustee Bernardo: put it to a sharpest point, it's the issue is whether or not we face potential

[1:45:41] Trustee Bernardo: liability as defendants.

[1:45:43] Trustee Bernardo: There is no specific person.

[1:45:45] Trustee Bernardo: There is no cause of action that's out there right now.

[1:45:47] Trustee Bernardo: It's hypothetical.

[1:45:49] Trustee Bernardo: uh it's just a question of whether or not it's prudent to discuss hypotheticals

[1:45:53] Trustee Bernardo: in an open forum if

[1:45:57] Voice 22: i may the the ombuds person interprets the our community each other so just

[1:46:03] Voice 22: a general concern of litigation isn't good enough to go in camera so that's i think where you're at

[1:46:08] Voice 22: right now uh it's only if you if you can identify something specific that is potential or uh you've

[1:46:15] Voice 22: been served so that's really what you should be thinking about okay

[1:46:21] Voice 9: on

[1:46:26] Voice 6: uh um my intent i'm just

[1:46:31] Voice 6: going to say my intention is not to dissuade you from going in camera or having a a conversation

[1:46:37] Voice 6: of that nature um i just want you to be clear about what you're doing and then indeed when we

[1:46:42] Voice 6: get in camera what point do we start to talk about general things when we come out of camera

[1:46:48] Voice 6: camera and i think there was a a notion there about um potential and potential is not an adequate

[1:46:57] Voice 6: reason to go in camera it was what way i'm interpreting that so let us uh just focus for

[1:47:03] Voice 6: a moment i'm pausing my speakers list joe you were next actually if i'm not or you were speaking

[1:47:09] Voice 6: actually and what are you trying to say deb point

[1:47:13] Voice 14: of order um chair sorry i'm just looking at the

[1:47:20] Voice 14: OK,

[1:47:22] Voice 6: so that's sorry, I'm confusing my speaker list with who was actually speaking.

[1:47:25] Voice 6: So, indeed, Kate Lewis-Stanberg speaking and should continue unless

[1:47:31] Voice 14: of order.

[1:47:33] Voice 6: Now, who's doing point of order now? Yes.

[1:47:36] Voice 6: On

[1:47:36] Voice 14: the B.C. website regarding going into in-camera, it states litigation or potential litigation that could impact the local government.

[1:47:46] Voice 14: And if we're discussing this and we're saying that there is a potential litigation, I

[1:47:53] Voice 6: don't know that

[1:47:54] Voice 14: it could that because of this conversation and the public listening in, somebody could then turn around and put litigation on the table.

[1:48:04] Voice 6: Sure. And somebody could come around and also say that you guys went in camera in appropriate circumstances.

[1:48:10] Voice 6: David Marler. And

[1:48:14] Voice 9: you're back into the sunlight.

[1:48:15] Voice 9: light

[1:48:15] Voice 8: uh

[1:48:17] Voice 6: janine dodds i'm sorry i didn't

[1:48:25] Voice 22: hear what she said david marler yeah no you're correct

[1:48:28] Voice 22: you can bring camera for litigation or potential litigation if it's specific item or specific issue

[1:48:34] Voice 22: uh that's fine however as i said the ambassador's office interpretation is that and this is through

[1:48:40] Voice 22: the courts is that speculative is not uh something that you can bring camera for so here this is

[1:48:46] Voice 22: speculative you are saying speculating you could be sued that's not a good enough reason to go in

[1:48:52] Voice 22: camera i'd

[1:48:56] Voice 20: like to make a motion um

[1:49:00] Voice 6: i actually want to conclude kate louis stanford to respect

[1:49:04] Voice 6: her space and if you want to go and make a motion to go in camera i certainly would welcome that

[1:49:09] Voice 6: kate louise you want to finish i

[1:49:12] Voice 18: think there's a lot of good ideas here uh the concern that i have

[1:49:16] Voice 18: with the paragraph four is specific to speaking to Mr. Denison. He may be a scientist, but he

[1:49:28] Voice 18: certainly didn't identify himself as a scientist during that presentation. He identified himself

[1:49:33] Voice 18: as a marketer. I had concerns about the presentation and the information provided.

[1:49:38] Voice 18: I would like to pull back and be able to have a more objective sense of what we're looking at

[1:49:47] Voice 18: and what some of the complexities are

[1:49:49] Voice 18: and why some of the information on our website

[1:49:52] Voice 18: and our communications say what they do.

[1:49:56] Voice 18: And if they need to be changed, then they can be changed.

[1:49:59] Voice 18: I would like to have that flexibility

[1:50:01] Voice 18: not to be specific to certain scientists.

[1:50:06] Voice 18: And I certainly respect that somebody is the custodian

[1:50:10] Voice 18: of the classification system.

[1:50:13] Voice 18: I also understand that that science continues to advance with or without that particular scientist and that that doesn't make that information incorrect.

[1:50:25] Voice 18: So I'm just trying to make the most flexible opportunity for us to get the information we need to have the confidence that the information we have here is accurate.

[1:50:38] Voice 18: all right

[1:50:41] Voice 6: thank you um so thank you so i want to just pause for a second because it's a potential

[1:50:46] Voice 6: motion that needs to be passed in order to keep us on the straight and narrow here and i see that

[1:50:51] Voice 6: david marler and deb morrison having a conversation so deb morrison what is your motion i move that

[1:50:57] Voice 20: the meeting be closed to the public under section 91g of the community charter for the purpose of

[1:51:02] Voice 20: discussing potential litigation and that staff be invited to attend so

[1:51:07] Voice 6: move do i have a seconder to

[1:51:08] Voice 6: to go in camera.

[1:51:09] Voice 6: Joe Bernardo, thank you.

[1:51:12] Voice 6: Well, it's not debatable, I'll just call for the vote.

[1:51:14] Voice 6: All those in favor?

[1:51:18] Voice 6: Any opposed?

[1:51:21] Voice 6: So David, can you record that vote?

[1:51:24] Voice 6: Those opposed to going in camera?

[1:51:27] Voice 6: And I'm gonna ask on the Zoom, five opposed.

[1:51:35] Voice 6: So just for clarity,

[1:51:36] Voice 9: all those in favor of going in camera?

[1:51:53] Voice 6: Okay, so thank you very much.

[1:51:55] Voice 6: So that does carry.

[1:51:56] Voice 6: So let us turn off the recordings, stop the streaming.

[1:52:01] Voice 6: and we'll go in camera and quite honestly let's take a three minute break

[1:52:07] Voice 6: fresh air let's continue the conversation some

[1:52:12] Voice 24: amended documents they should have been emailed

[1:52:13] Voice 24: out to you as well so i did work overnight last night to update the budget to reflect

[1:52:18] Voice 24: trust council's direction for change uh there is a document that's been prepared

[1:52:22] Voice 24: that summarizes those changes and that's what we'll review once it's up on screen

[1:52:34] Voice 6: yeah so just briefly uh rising reporting from the in-camera session um there was there is nothing to

[1:52:43] Voice 6: rise and report from the in-camera session that's just public for the public's benefit

[1:52:48] Voice 6: now back to you julia thank you uh

[1:52:52] Voice 24: thanks chair uh so that's the one laurie the summary

[1:52:57] Voice 24: there we go uh so this document simply summarizes the changes that trust council made to the

[1:53:02] Voice 24: the budget yesterday. You'll see the opening draft 2023-24 budget was valued at $9.73 million.

[1:53:09] Voice 24: We've added in $27,500 to fund an additional trust council meeting, and we've removed $20,000

[1:53:15] Voice 24: from the policy statement project. So total planned spending for next fiscal year is now $9.745

[1:53:21] Voice 24: million. The local trust area general tax increase has moved from 1.75% to 2.06%. And the general tax

[1:53:31] Voice 24: tax increase for Bowen Island Municipality has moved from a decrease of 1.17% to a small

[1:53:36] Voice 24: increase of 0.3% and is valued at $346,000 approximately. So the next page of the summarized

[1:53:44] Voice 24: document, if you want to scroll down, Laurie, scroll down, thank you, simply reflects the

[1:53:52] Voice 24: changes with the budget in its entirety. So I've highlighted there the two tax increases,

[1:53:57] Voice 24: is 2.06 percent for local trust areas and 0.30 percent general increase for Bowen Island

[1:54:02] Voice 24: municipality if we keep scrolling down all the way to the bottom there we

[1:54:13] Voice 24: go thank you we will

[1:54:14] Voice 24: see that the transfer from the general revenue surplus fund has moved downwards to $231,000

[1:54:19] Voice 24: and that's because the policy statement work was funded from surplus funds so with a reduction of

[1:54:24] Voice 24: that work by $20,000 we now have to draw $20,000 less from the surplus fund so I'll happily take

[1:54:31] Voice 24: questions on that summary otherwise we can move straight into the bylaw straight

[1:54:35] Voice 6: into the bylaw

[1:54:38] Voice 6: thank you so are there any questions or clarity on the uh budget amendments as presented

[1:54:48] Voice 6: so can we then move into uh the motions to adopt the bylaw so i'm going to turn to the

[1:54:54] Voice 6: chair of financial planning committee to ask us to start us off on the motions that's you

[1:55:04] Voice 7: sorry

[1:55:08] Trustee Bernardo: i'm just i'm somewhere else uh where's that resolution right that um

[1:55:15] Trustee Bernardo: oh no wait

[1:55:15] Voice 9: here we go here it is

[1:55:19] Trustee Bernardo: that uh that islands trust council bylaw 191 cited as the financial plan

[1:55:27] Trustee Bernardo: and bylaw 2023-2024 be read a first time and

[1:55:34] Voice 6: is that as amended julia no thank you so do i have

[1:55:41] Voice 6: a seconder tim peterson thank you tim any discussion i'm going to call the vote all those

[1:55:49] Voice 6: in favor uh and online and hands down any opposed online one opposed on the floor

[1:56:02] Voice 6: all right um that carries um chair of fpc you want to give that another try

[1:56:09] Voice 6: that islands trust

[1:56:12] Trustee Bernardo: council bylaw 191 cited as the financial plan bylaw 2023 2024 be read a second

[1:56:18] Voice 6: time so that's moved to have a seconder uh judith getty thank you um any discussion all those in

[1:56:26] Voice 6: favor uh online please lower your hand any opposed so none opposed that carries uh a third time sir

[1:56:42] Trustee Bernardo: that island's trust council bylaw 191 cited as the financial plan bylaw 2023 2024 be read a third

[1:56:49] Trustee Bernardo: time uh

[1:56:51] Voice 6: seconded sue allen fast thank you and i'll ask if there's any discussion call for the vote

[1:56:57] Voice 6: all those in favor please and online and please lower your hands any opposed not seeing any

[1:57:07] Voice 6: opposed that carries thank you and finally the final necessity the

[1:57:14] Trustee Bernardo: islands trust council bylaw

[1:57:15] Trustee Bernardo: 191 cited as the financial plan bylaw 2023 2024 be forwarded to the minister of municipal affairs

[1:57:22] Trustee Bernardo: bears for approval consideration.

[1:57:25] Voice 6: Moved and seconded by Aaron Campbell. Thank you, Aaron.

[1:57:29] Voice 6: And I'll ask if there's any discussion. All those in favor and any opposed, please lower your hand.

[1:57:37] Voice 6: Any opposed? And on line, that carries. Thank you very much, counsel. Well done.

[1:57:43] Voice 6: The next item, I'll turn to Julia just briefly to brief us on the necessity for the revenue for

[1:57:49] Voice 6: anticipation borrowing by-law?

[1:57:53] Voice 24: The revenue anticipation borrowing by-law is an administrative

[1:57:56] Voice 24: by-law that gives permission for Islands Trust Council to borrow funds in the event that that

[1:58:01] Voice 24: is needed. Trust Council has nodded to borrow funds in decades. It's highly unlikely that we

[1:58:05] Voice 24: would end up in that situation, but this by-law does give the authority for us to move ahead in

[1:58:10] Voice 24: case we do need to borrow funds. The Islands Trust property tax requisition is received in the summer

[1:58:15] Voice 24: of each year, but of course our fiscal year starts April 1. So there's a window of time there where

[1:58:19] Voice 24: historically we've been at risk of running out of cash resources. That risk is very, very low

[1:58:24] Voice 24: in our current financial situation, but this bylaw is approved so that if we're in a bad state,

[1:58:30] Voice 24: we can borrow funds as needed.

[1:58:32] Voice 6: Great. Thank you. So I'll look to a motion from the floor.

[1:58:37] Voice 6: Ben Maberly? Oh, you have a question. Thank you. Yeah, thanks.

[1:58:41] Voice 26: Julia, I was just wondering

[1:58:42] Voice 26: if you were anticipating borrowing, would that be brought back to trust counsel before the borrowing?

[1:58:48] Voice 26: i

[1:58:52] Voice 24: think we would definitely be notifying trust council um this bylaw is adopted once it's

[1:58:57] Voice 24: approved by the minister which is in advance of any potential borrowing that's needed um but it

[1:59:02] Voice 24: would be good practice to come back to council we wouldn't be required to but we would let you know

[1:59:06] Voice 24: right

[1:59:07] Voice 6: thank you so is there any further questions um can i seek somebody to make a motion

[1:59:13] Voice 6: Sue Ellen Fast, go ahead.

[1:59:16] Voice 6: Oh, sure.

[1:59:17] Voice 6: I'll do it.

[1:59:18] Voice 6: You can second.

[1:59:18] Voice 13: Wonderful.

[1:59:19] Voice 6: Okay.

[1:59:20] Voice 13: You start.

[1:59:21] Voice 13: I was trying to make this efficient.

[1:59:23] Voice 13: It's a synchronized, well-oiled machine at this end of the table, Chair.

[1:59:27] Voice 13: So I move that Islands Trust Council Bylaw 192, cited as the Revenue Anticipation Bar

[1:59:33] Voice 13: and Bylaw 2023-2024, be read the first time.

[1:59:37] Voice 6: Okay.

[1:59:37] Voice 6: Moved, seconded by Sue Ellen Fast.

[1:59:39] Voice 6: There we go.

[1:59:40] Voice 6: Thank you.

[1:59:41] Voice 6: Any discussion?

[1:59:42] Voice 6: All those in favor, hands down, any opposed, and online, none opposed, thank you.

[1:59:50] Voice 6: The second motion.

[1:59:52] Trustee Fast: I move that Islands Trust Council By-law 192, cited as the Revenue Anticipation Borrowing

[1:59:58] Trustee Fast: bylaw 2023-2022.

[2:00:00] Trustee Fast: 2024 be read a second time move

[2:00:02] Voice 6: to have a seconder um lisa gabbro thank you um any discussion

[2:00:10] Voice 6: all those in favor any opposed that also carries um the third motion with

[2:00:18] Voice 13: that i was trust council

[2:00:20] Voice 13: bio 192 cited as the revenue anticipation borrowing bylaw 2023-2024 be ready third time

[2:00:26] Voice 13: Move

[2:00:27] Voice 6: to our seconder, Kate Louise Stanford. Thank you. Any discussion? All those in favor? Any opposed? That carries. Thank you very much. And the final one.

[2:00:39] Trustee Fast: I move that Islands Trust Council Bylaw 192, cited as the Revenue Anticipation Borrowing Bylaw 2023-2024, be forwarded to the Minister of Municipal Affairs for approval consideration.

[2:00:52] Trustee Fast: consideration. Thank

[2:00:53] Voice 6: you very much. The seconder, Mairead Boland. Thank you very much. Any discussion? All those in favor? That too carries. Excellent. Excellent work, counsel. Thank you very much. That enables us to come back to where we left off before we went in camera, which was disposition of delegations. And we had an in camera conversation. And so I want to ask

[2:01:24] Voice 6: if there's any further motions with respect

[2:01:27] Voice 6: to disposition of delegations.

[2:01:31] Voice 6: Okay, so Susan Yates, Sam Borthwick,

[2:01:42] Voice 9: Susan

[2:01:43] Voice 6: Yates, Sam Borthwick and Deb Morrison,

[2:01:48] Voice 6: I have on my list and we'll deal with that

[2:01:50] Voice 6: when we get there, over to you.

[2:01:52] Voice 21: Just a question with regard to executive committee's

[2:01:56] Voice 21: response to um to raincoast conservation's um delegation we

[2:02:05] Voice 6: would normally respond with a thank

[2:02:07] Voice 6: you you want to add some additional information yeah

[2:02:10] Voice 21: um because they're encouraging us to adopt

[2:02:13] Voice 21: and pursue the 15 goals set out in the montreal pledge um so i'm just wondering if when we thank

[2:02:20] Voice 21: them we can say that we will do that i don't know and

[2:02:26] Voice 6: not unless we have specific i'm going to turn

[2:02:29] Voice 6: to director freighter not unless we have specific direction that we're actually going to do that

[2:02:33] Voice 6: that would be a project i suspect but that's my question director freighter uh turn your microphone

[2:02:41] Voice 6: off please oh sorry yes

[2:02:44] Voice 19: council would need to pass a motion to that effect that that was the

[2:02:47] Voice 19: direction they wanted to go right

[2:02:50] Voice 6: okay that's

[2:02:51] Voice 19: all i need to know

[2:02:52] Voice 6: okay thank you so

[2:02:53] Voice 9: um mental blank

[2:03:01] Voice 9: sam borthwick i

[2:03:05] Trustee Bernardo: was just checking did

[2:03:06] Voice 13: we deal

[2:03:06] Trustee Bernardo: with david graham's

[2:03:08] Voice 13: yes okay cool nope that's it

[2:03:10] Voice 13: okay

[2:03:11] Voice 6: thank you uh deb morrison okay

[2:03:16] Voice 20: um i think we have a couple other motions that were still

[2:03:19] Voice 20: on the table but i do have one to deal with susan yates that i think is simple and not a project

[2:03:23] Voice 20: So if we're up for that one, I move that the Trust Council direct the RPC and the TPC to consider how the Montreal Charter on Biodiversity impacts the work of violence,

[2:03:33] Voice 20: just to share their thinking back with Trust Council this calendar year.

[2:03:37] Voice 6: Excellent. Moved by Trustee Morrison. Do I have a seconder? Susan Yates. Thank you, Susan.

[2:03:43] Voice 6: Do you wish to speak to the motion?

[2:03:45] Voice 20: Yeah, I didn't frame it in any of the particular delegations because I think it's much broader than that.

[2:03:51] Voice 20: but i think it's the issue raised so if we can just forward it to committee that seems

[2:03:55] Voice 20: the appropriate method of handling it at the

[2:03:57] Voice 6: moment excellent thank you any discussion uh

[2:04:02] Voice 6: laura patrick um

[2:04:04] Trustee Patrick: well i agree with this motion i think i don't know if it needs to the link would

[2:04:09] Trustee Patrick: be and any impacts on strategic planning in the next year but uh but i think it committees would

[2:04:16] Trustee Patrick: come out with their recommendations i think it's the same

[2:04:18] Voice 9: right any

[2:04:20] Voice 6: further discussion on the motion

[2:04:23] Voice 6: um we've had it moved and seconded and so i'll just call the vote all those in favor hands down

[2:04:30] Voice 6: any opposed and online looks like we're all in favor excellent work thank you

[2:04:38] Voice 6: um so i think that covers that so indeed there were a couple of remaining motions on the floor

[2:04:44] Voice 6: as it's been pointed out and so I'm going to ask if there's a necessity to advance

[2:04:48] Voice 6: any more motions with respect to the delegations and Kate Louise Stanford you're nodding your head

[2:04:56] Voice 6: over there go ahead can we have them put up on the we can yes Laurie thank you excellent work

[2:05:06] Voice 6: okay Kate Louise I

[2:05:10] Voice 18: have two motions one that I was trust council request after review language

[2:05:14] Voice 18: on the website and other publications regarding the coastal Douglas fir zone and amend as

[2:05:20] Voice 18: appropriate with advice from provincial forest ecologists as

[2:05:24] Voice 6: required or needed thank you to

[2:05:26] Voice 6: our seconder Susan Yates thank you Susan you wish to speak to the motion no

[2:05:30] Voice 18: I think we have

[2:05:31] Voice 18: done that one does

[2:05:33] Voice 6: anybody else wish to speak to the motion okay um so I'll pass

[2:05:38] Voice 6: microphone off microphone thank you

[2:05:42] Trustee Fast: um as someone whose island is in an associated ecosystem i

[2:05:48] Trustee Fast: wonder if uh that is assumed or could it say coastal douglas first and zone and associated

[2:05:56] Trustee Fast: ecosystems and uh secondly is it only provincial forest ecologists or do they uh i'm wondering if

[2:06:09] Trustee Fast: if that needs to be adjusted.

[2:06:11] Trustee Fast: Thank you.

[2:06:14] Voice 6: Well, I'll turn to the mover

[2:06:16] Voice 6: as to whether or not an associated ecosystems

[2:06:19] Voice 6: would be considered friendly.

[2:06:21] Voice 6: It doesn't seem to be harmful to me.

[2:06:23] Voice 6: It's friendly to me.

[2:06:24] Voice 6: Okay, so let's add,

[2:06:26] Voice 6: is that okay with council and associated ecosystems?

[2:06:30] Voice 6: Anything else further might extend

[2:06:32] Voice 6: beyond the scope of the intention?

[2:06:36] Voice 6: Joe Bernardo.

[2:06:38] Trustee Bernardo: I'd like to suggest that

[2:06:41] Trustee Bernardo: And I guess it's a friendly suggestion that the resolution say with advice from a qualified forest, provincial forest ecologist.

[2:06:57] Voice 9: Thank you.

[2:07:02] Voice 9: Sure. I think that seems reasonable.

[2:07:04] Voice 6: Okay. Anything further? Christina Evans.

[2:07:08] Voice 6: I

[2:07:10] Voice 14: was just going to ask if we could actually name one of the specialists or Will McKenzie, I believe, was one of the names that was mentioned as one of the leading provincial forest people.

[2:07:27] Voice 6: Yeah. Jamie Harris.

[2:07:29] Voice 6: I

[2:07:29] Voice 3: sent an amendment to this motion to Laurie stating something along those lines.

[2:07:34] Voice 3: So I'm hoping it's a friendly amendment and maybe we can see it.

[2:07:39] Voice 6: and okay so did you get that amendment lori there's a motion

[2:07:45] Voice 9: oh

[2:07:49] Voice 3: really i wonder why that happened

[2:07:54] Voice 3: all right

[2:07:54] Voice 6: um okay

[2:07:55] Voice 3: well i can maybe i can just say it then i've emailed it i don't know sure

[2:07:59] Voice 3: so just slowly and carefully yes sir for the amendment thank you mr chair yeah that the tc

[2:08:07] Voice 3: direct staff to work with provincial experts including

[2:08:16] Voice 9: dell

[2:08:18] Voice 3: medinger comma yeah just to

[2:08:21] Voice 6: hang on a second jamie i think this is not an amendment to this motion this sounds like a new

[2:08:26] Voice 6: motion um

[2:08:28] Trustee Fast: well i'm

[2:08:35] Voice 3: not trying to be unfriendly but maybe leak of the legal term could be unfriendly

[2:08:38] Voice 3: sure so let's

[2:08:39] Voice 6: just be you know we're learning right so let's just take a moment um the

[2:08:45] Voice 6: There's a motion there. If you want to amend it, then that you would.

[2:08:49] Voice 6: The motion would be that I amend the motion to remove these words and add these words.

[2:08:54] Voice 6: And then, indeed, the council owns the motion that's on the floor and that amendment would carry.

[2:08:59] Voice 3: OK, well, maybe I can just say from qualified provincial forest ecologists, including.

[2:09:07] Voice 9: So we're on the right track. Good.

[2:09:13] Voice 9: ecologists um

[2:09:15] Voice 3: including including dell mettinger will mckenzie

[2:09:24] Voice 3: sorry i should have been slower there um dell mettinger um will mckenzie and bob green

[2:09:35] Trustee Fast: yeah

[2:09:35] Voice 6: sue ellen let's just make sure we understand what the amendment is and then we'll go from there

[2:09:42] Voice 9: okay all

[2:09:53] Voice 6: right so we've kind of added it into there but essentially the motion i would also

[2:09:58] Voice 6: eliminate as needed okay period yes sure it's your amendment you can alter it as you see fit

[2:10:09] Voice 6: and council will decide if they agree with you

[2:10:12] Voice 9: um co microphone

[2:10:20] Voice 4: so it's been pointed out to me

[2:10:22] Voice 4: that some of these individuals are professional contractors like as you name specific people so

[2:10:29] Voice 4: do you want to start allocating budget towards the pursuit of specialized expertise um do you

[2:10:38] Voice 4: want to leave it more general um work with the current provincial staff perhaps and so

[2:10:46] Voice 4: accordingly

[2:10:46] Voice 6: it seems

[2:10:49] Voice 4: like a total gray

[2:10:49] Voice 3: area jamie harris i could gladly modify that amendment thank

[2:10:54] Voice 3: you for that um insight i would remove dale mettinger and bob green and

[2:11:03] Voice 9: there's a okay

[2:11:10] Voice 3: and then i would add will mckenzie i don't add will mckenzie but after will mckenzie custodian

[2:11:17] Voice 3: provincial custodian of the bec system oh actually okay thank you that's helpful

[2:11:27] Voice 6: so if you can just glance at that motion jamie is that what your intended amendment would look like

[2:11:45] Voice 9: acronyms? Oh, BEC,

[2:11:50] Voice 6: biogeochromatic. I'd have to. Yeah, so let's just get that spelled out. Thank

[2:11:57] Voice 6: you. Okay, so that sounds like that's correct. So I'm going to seek a seconder for the amendment

[2:12:04] Voice 6: to the motion that's on the floor. Do I have a seconder? Christina Evans has seconded the motion.

[2:12:09] Voice 6: Do you wish to speak to your motion, amendment, Jamie?

[2:12:14] Voice 6: No, thank you.

[2:12:16] Voice 6: Okay.

[2:12:16] Voice 6: Anybody else wish to speak to the amendment, Deb Morrison?

[2:12:21] Voice 20: Just briefly, I do think that it's respectful to include Will McKenzie just in the context of acknowledging this is a response to the delegation.

[2:12:30] Voice 20: So, and that that is actually a provincial officer or a provincial employee who's doing it.

[2:12:37] Voice 20: and

[2:12:38] Voice 6: does that uh address staff does that address the concern that was expressed there thank you

[2:12:43] Voice 6: okay so then uh kate louise stamp oh sorry sue i'm fast you got me messed up you can't sit

[2:12:50] Voice 6: together anymore sorry

[2:12:52] Trustee Fast: about that um i'm wondering if we could add an s to make the word ecologists

[2:12:57] Trustee Fast: just plural right

[2:12:59] Voice 6: thank you

[2:13:00] Voice 6: okay anything else on the motion to amend and that's what it'll look

[2:13:08] Voice 6: like if you approve the amendment just a grammar

[2:13:11] Trustee Bernardo: point custodian of the BEC system sure

[2:13:18] Voice 9: thank you

[2:13:20] Voice 9: that's what I was going to say excellent um of the I

[2:13:27] Voice 6: think you said is that correct

[2:13:31] Voice 6: Correct?

[2:13:33] Voice 6: Laurie?

[2:13:33] Voice 6: The.

[2:13:35] Voice 6: Oh, I see.

[2:13:36] Voice 6: You're way down there.

[2:13:37] Voice 6: Oof.

[2:13:38] Voice 6: You got me confused.

[2:13:39] Voice 6: Okay.

[2:13:40] Voice 6: So we have a motion to amend, and that's presented up on the screen.

[2:13:49] Voice 6: Any further discussion?

[2:13:51] Voice 6: So on the motion to amend, all those in favor?

[2:13:56] Voice 6: Hands down?

[2:13:57] Voice 6: Any opposed?

[2:13:59] Voice 6: And so keep your hands up, please.

[2:14:03] Voice 6: Opposed?

[2:14:04] Voice 6: Opposed?

[2:14:07] Voice 6: So let's hang up.

[2:14:08] Voice 6: pause a second here this is not calling the this is a call for a motion to amend the motion and

[2:14:17] Voice 6: i'm just going to do this again those in favor please raise your hands that support the amendment

[2:14:24] Voice 6: okay and now lower your hands and now those that are sorry so low

[2:14:37] Voice 6: yeah i lower your hands okay now those opposed to the

[2:14:44] Voice 6: oh i see those in favor please raise your hand tell me when you finish counting yeah i did i

[2:15:03] Voice 6: didn't do that on purpose are we good now

[2:15:09] Voice 9: those opposed please and what do we have so that carries

[2:15:29] Voice 6: so now we're going to return to the amended motion and i believe you've got that up on the very top

[2:15:36] Voice 6: of the screen there so now we're returning to the amended motion is there any further discussion on

[2:15:43] Voice 6: the amended motion i'm going to call the vote then uh do you have something on the amended

[2:15:50] Voice 6: motion susan h i

[2:15:51] Voice 21: i don't want my name to be attached to this as a seconder oh

[2:15:59] Voice 9: i'm not sure

[2:16:05] Voice 6: how robert's rules deals with that

[2:16:07] Voice 7: okay

[2:16:08] Voice 6: perfect so let's remove the eights and put in bernardo

[2:16:16] Voice 6: It seems a little odd, but there we go, thank you.

[2:16:19] Voice 6: But I respect and appreciate the concern.

[2:16:24] Voice 6: Moved and seconded.

[2:16:25] Voice 6: So on the amended motion, which has been moved and seconded

[2:16:28] Voice 6: by Kate Lou Stanford and Bernardo, any discussion?

[2:16:33] Voice 9: All those in favor, keep them up.

[2:16:48] Voice 6: This is a test of endurance in more than one way.

[2:17:07] Voice 6: Those opposed, please raise your hands.

[2:17:09] Voice 6: and you got our voters on screen i'm hoping those opposed okay so that also carries okay

[2:17:20] Voice 6: thank you um i think you said you had a second motion uh okay

[2:17:24] Voice 9: louise i'm

[2:17:36] Voice 18: going to make a very

[2:17:36] Voice 18: quick i'm going to make a quick amendment as i go but it's clear that the trust council requests

[2:17:43] Voice 18: the executive committee to arrange a presentation for trustees by provincial forest ecologists

[2:17:49] Voice 18: ologists qualified provincial forest ecologists to provide background on forest classifications

[2:17:57] Voice 18: forest health and the significance of forests in the islands trust area as soon as convenient

[2:18:07] Voice 18: for trust council okay

[2:18:12] Voice 4: and you'll want to remove that first provincial forest ecologist i think

[2:18:19] Voice 9: you've got it twice that's correct right there

[2:18:28] Voice 6: no no the first provincial forest ecologist at the beginning of the second line

[2:19:08] Voice 6: unless i'm wrong okay the fir the on the second line the first three words thank you and probably

[2:19:17] Voice 18: oh yeah we were going to make it to the public um

[2:19:24] Trustee Fast: a

[2:19:26] Voice 18: public presentation so after a range on the top line well

[2:19:35] Voice 6: a presentation to trustees

[2:19:37] Voice 6: would likely by default be public it's got to be okay the

[2:19:41] Voice 18: only thing i really need to add then

[2:19:43] Voice 18: as after islands trust area at the bottom as soon as conveniently possible right

[2:19:51] Voice 9: right so

[2:19:59] Voice 9: So that's your motion. Thank

[2:20:01] Voice 6: you. Do I have a seconder? I may read Boland. Thank you.

[2:20:08] Voice 6: We should speak to the motion. Kate-Louise Stanford, speak to the motion.

[2:20:13] Voice 6: I think I've done so. Okay. Thank you. Any discussion on the motion?

[2:20:17] Voice 6: Jamie Harris? Susan Yates? Is this the point where I can make an amendment?

[2:20:22] Voice 6: any time thank

[2:20:25] Voice 3: you i would like to add after qualified provincial ecologists

[2:20:33] Voice 3: pardon me i'm not quite literally there i'm so after the provincial i'm tired so erase that

[2:20:45] Voice 3: that, please,

[2:20:54] Voice 9: including Will McKenzie, custodian of the BEC system, after

[2:21:09] Voice 3: qualified provincial

[2:21:12] Voice 3: forest ecologists.

[2:21:14] Voice 2: Same as the last one,

[2:21:15] Voice 3: basically. And

[2:21:36] Voice 9: just put that in quotes,

[2:21:42] Voice 9: including Will McKenzie.

[2:21:57] Voice 6: Okay, I think we've got the gist of it there. Trustee Harris,

[2:22:02] Voice 6: is that what you intended yes thank you do i have a seconder for the amendment to the motion

[2:22:10] Voice 6: uh deb morrison thank you deb um do you wish to speak to the motion i think it's apparent

[2:22:18] Voice 6: oh thank you um anybody wish to speak to the amendment to the motion christina evans

[2:22:27] Voice 6: kate louis stanford i

[2:22:28] Voice 12: believe that the word including is meant to be in the quotation marks

[2:22:34] Voice 6: you're absolutely right

[2:22:37] Voice 6: Kate Lewis Stanford

[2:22:42] Voice 18: I won't be able to

[2:22:43] Voice 18: vote in favor of this I just feel

[2:22:45] Voice 18: that it defines

[2:22:47] Voice 18: us too closely I'd like

[2:22:49] Voice 18: to open it up as much as possible

[2:22:53] Voice 6: okay

[2:22:55] Voice 6: Ben maybe

[2:22:56] Voice 6: yeah

[2:22:57] Voice 26: I'm

[2:22:58] Voice 26: at a point here now where we've done quite a bit

[2:23:00] Voice 26: of work on reviewing

[2:23:02] Voice 26: everything that I'm beginning to think

[2:23:04] Voice 26: the whole motion is redundant

[2:23:06] Voice 26: to a point where, I mean, staff has a ton of work

[2:23:11] Voice 26: to do on reviewing what we have on our

[2:23:15] Voice 26: websites, what's right, what's not right, and

[2:23:19] Voice 26: we're getting them to arrange a presentation. I think this is

[2:23:23] Voice 26: premature. I think we should see what comes out of the other work and then arrange a presentation.

[2:23:27] Voice 26: I think that's the more appropriate way to do it. Fair

[2:23:31] Voice 6: enough. Thank you.

[2:23:32] Voice 6: Any discussion on the amendment, Lee Middleton?

[2:23:37] Voice 6: and oh i see yeah because i've got my speaker's list from before um okay on the amendment i'm

[2:23:45] Voice 6: going to call for the vote on the amendment all those in favor okay

[2:23:58] Voice 9: and those opposed and what

[2:24:15] Voice 6: should tally including online 14 opposed so that fails thank you very much council so now we're

[2:24:24] Voice 6: back to the unamended motion as presented at the top of the page there and i'm going to ask if

[2:24:31] Voice 6: if there's any further discussion on the motion.

[2:24:34] Voice 6: Jamie Harris.

[2:24:35] Voice 6: I'm just going to

[2:24:37] Voice 3: expand or just agree

[2:24:40] Voice 3: with what Trustee Maberly was saying

[2:24:42] Voice 3: and possibly we are just beating this a bit hard.

[2:24:47] Voice 3: So I'm not in favor of this either.

[2:24:50] Voice 6: Thank you.

[2:24:51] Voice 6: Anything else on the motion on the floor?

[2:24:54] Voice 6: Laura Patrick, Lee, oh, sorry.

[2:24:56] Voice 6: Hang on a second.

[2:24:57] Voice 6: Jamie Harris, Susan Yates, Lee Middleton,

[2:25:01] Voice 6: and now new speakers are going to be Laura Patrick

[2:25:04] Voice 6: and I did see one other.

[2:25:06] Voice 6: So Susan Yates.

[2:25:08] Voice 21: Not on the motion per se.

[2:25:10] Voice 21: I can ask my question after.

[2:25:11] Voice 6: Okay, thank you.

[2:25:13] Voice 6: Lee Middleton.

[2:25:14] Voice 13: Sure, thank you.

[2:25:15] Voice 13: I appreciate the comments about the amount of work,

[2:25:18] Voice 13: but I think this presents an opportunity

[2:25:20] Voice 13: to get into the sort of the education

[2:25:23] Voice 13: also public conversation aspects of forestry

[2:25:26] Voice 13: in the Gulf Islands, which is the broader context

[2:25:29] Voice 13: by which this first came to us.

[2:25:31] Voice 13: And I think it's an important discussion

[2:25:34] Voice 13: and one that is, we flagged last term

[2:25:37] Voice 13: as needing to have to happen.

[2:25:39] Voice 13: And this seems like a great,

[2:25:40] Voice 13: as good a way as any is framing it and bringing it forward.

[2:25:44] Voice 13: So what the timeframe can be, I'm not so concerned,

[2:25:47] Voice 13: obviously with resources permitting,

[2:25:49] Voice 13: but I think from the educational perspective

[2:25:51] Voice 13: and discussion perspective, it's a great idea.

[2:25:54] Voice 6: Okay, thank you.

[2:25:55] Voice 6: Laura Patrick, over to you.

[2:25:59] Trustee Patrick: I think it's an excellent idea.

[2:26:00] Trustee Patrick: We just had the workshop two Mondays ago on salt spraying.

[2:26:03] Trustee Patrick: It focused on wildfire resiliency and the health of the forest.

[2:26:06] Trustee Patrick: But one of the conversations that was a sidebar to that was the health of the forest in the areas where we have no tree cutting covenants.

[2:26:12] Trustee Patrick: And what as a body might need to be done so that we can ensure that we have healthy forests in those coveted areas.

[2:26:19] Trustee Patrick: So I think this is very useful.

[2:26:22] Voice 6: Okay.

[2:26:22] Voice 6: Mary Boland and Deb Morrison.

[2:26:26] Voice 6: You're okay?

[2:26:26] Voice 6: Perfect.

[2:26:27] Voice 6: Deb Morrison.

[2:26:28] Voice 20: Interesting.

[2:26:29] Voice 20: I'm actually a little bit torn about this because I do think that we should have education in the

[2:26:33] Voice 20: trust area but I guess my issue is that I think we should do this after we've done the strategic

[2:26:39] Voice 20: plan and we clearly understand what the learning goals across the whole of our thing instead of

[2:26:44] Voice 20: assigning things like by motion so I think I'm going to oppose this actually by process I think

[2:26:49] Voice 20: the conversation is great I attended Salt Spring Highland transition one I wanted to see those

[2:26:54] Voice 20: things but I think by process I actually I'm not sure that this is the right way to be doing this

[2:26:58] Voice 20: right now okay

[2:27:00] Voice 6: um christina evans who hasn't spoken on this motion i think

[2:27:05] Voice 14: i'm going to agree

[2:27:08] Voice 14: with uh deb morrison on what hunter's statement specifically based on what cao said to us earlier

[2:27:14] Voice 14: regarding the amount of work that's coming out of this particular meeting thank you although

[2:27:20] Voice 9: but

[2:27:21] Voice 14: although the this would be great um i think again it has to go through proper process which

[2:27:26] Voice 14: we haven't finalized yet okay

[2:27:31] Voice 6: so jamie harris do you want to add something further

[2:27:35] i

[2:27:37] Voice 3: agree i think this is very important and i'm afraid i would like to see it um brought forward

[2:27:45] Voice 3: at a later date after we deal with some of the previous motions um that we've just passed okay

[2:27:52] Voice 6: thank you and kate louise stanford that's

[2:27:56] Voice 18: the reason why i made it as soon as conveniently

[2:27:58] Voice 18: conveniently possible because I think there's other things happening. I don't expect this to

[2:28:03] Voice 18: be by June. It's how it fits into the work program.

[2:28:10] Voice 9: Okay. Thank you for that. So any

[2:28:16] Voice 9: further discussion? I'm

[2:28:20] Voice 6: going to call for Jamie.

[2:28:22] Voice 3: I was just going to ask, is there any way to move

[2:28:25] Voice 3: this forward? Is there an RFD or some kind of a deal that we can have this looked at in September

[2:28:31] Voice 3: or December

[2:28:33] Voice 3: trust council? A motion could defer

[2:28:35] Voice 3: this

[2:28:38] Voice 6: or

[2:28:40] Voice 6: I think

[2:28:41] Voice 6: some change in the language as convenient as

[2:28:44] Voice 6: possible might be slightly different but

[2:28:46] Voice 6: you know I think staff are hearing

[2:28:48] Voice 6: the conversation that we're having here

[2:28:50] Voice 6: and they can take I believe

[2:28:52] Voice 6: they can take that into consideration the executive

[2:28:54] Voice 6: committee which is actually ultimately

[2:28:56] Voice 6: going to be arranging it I think would take that

[2:28:58] Voice 6: into consideration

[2:29:00] Voice 6: I would say let's go with trust and, you know, I'm actually switching my own personal vote back and forth here as I'm talking.

[2:29:08] Voice 6: And so let's just go with what it is the council decides on the motion that's in front of us.

[2:29:15] Voice 6: Is that all right? I'm going to call the vote.

[2:29:18] Voice 9: All those in favor.

[2:29:30] Voice 9: OK, and those opposed.

[2:29:48] Voice 6: Thank you very much. Motion fails. Excellent. Off we go.

[2:29:52] Voice 6: So any further action required with response to disposition of delegation?

[2:30:00] Voice 6: this point. Christina Evans.

[2:30:02] Voice 14: I'm not sure about process on this, but is there a way to request

[2:30:06] Voice 14: that this motion be brought forward at the June meeting? I know that there's a way to revisit

[2:30:13] Voice 14: something that's been voted on. I just don't understand the process.

[2:30:17] Voice 6: I'm going to turn to CAO

[2:30:19] Voice 6: about reconsideration of a motion that happened during previous meeting because there are specific

[2:30:25] Voice 6: specific criteria around that.

[2:30:28] Voice 6: Director Frater.

[2:30:29] Voice 6: I

[2:30:29] Voice 19: would recommend that trust council

[2:30:31] Voice 19: refer this to trust programs committee to consider

[2:30:34] Voice 19: as they set up your stewardship education program

[2:30:37] Voice 19: for next year as one of the possible education topics.

[2:30:41] Voice 6: Sure, that's maybe not the question.

[2:30:43] Voice 6: Actually, your question was about deferring.

[2:30:46] Voice 6: It works?

[2:30:47] Voice 6: Okay, so therefore, is there any further business

[2:30:52] Voice 6: on the disposition of delegations?

[2:30:54] Voice 6: Kate Louise Stanford.

[2:30:55] Voice 6: what she said

[2:30:57] Voice 7: which

[2:31:00] Voice 6: was what do

[2:31:03] Voice 18: we refer it to trust programs

[2:31:07] Voice 6: therefore i need a motion i move

[2:31:09] Voice 18: that we do we why move that trust council refer the educational opportunity around cdf and force

[2:31:21] Voice 18: worse discussions to Trust Programs Committee

[2:31:27] Voice 18: for further consideration as an educational opportunity.

[2:31:33] Voice 6: Okay.

[2:31:34] Voice 18: Because I'm crappy at this.

[2:31:37] Voice 6: You got that, Lori?

[2:31:41] Voice 6: And are the mover and seconder content

[2:31:47] Voice 9: what is on the screen?

[2:32:05] Voice 6: Morris, Kate Lee Stanford of Morris moved and seconded.

[2:32:10] Voice 6: Oh, sorry.

[2:32:11] Voice 9: Yeah.

[2:32:13] Voice 6: yeah uh lori it was morrison rich nine tenths of the i'm just going to call the vote on it so

[2:32:44] Voice 6: we've already got nine tenths of the way um any discussion it's moved and seconded all those in

[2:32:50] Voice 6: favor hands

[2:32:54] Voice 9: down any

[2:32:56] Voice 6: opposed that carries thank you for the kind offer anything further with

[2:33:04] Voice 6: disposition of delegations okay Thank You counsel the next item on our agenda

[2:33:12] Voice 6: is correspondence at twelve point one and twelve point two I'm going to ask if

[2:33:19] Voice 6: there's any direction other than received for information normally we

[2:33:24] Voice 6: would receive for information is there any direction with regards to the

[2:33:28] Voice 6: correspondence received at twelve point one and twelve point two and I see Laura

[2:33:32] Voice 6: Laura Patrick, and Marie Boland.

[2:33:35] Voice 6: Laura Patrick.

[2:33:36] Trustee Patrick: I was going to say the first item, 12.1,

[2:33:39] Trustee Patrick: could just be referred to the Regional Planning Committee

[2:33:41] Trustee Patrick: as it's considering its strategic planning.

[2:33:43] Voice 6: Can you make a motion?

[2:33:44] Trustee Patrick: We have to make a motion, or can we do it through general consent?

[2:33:47] Trustee Patrick: I move that item 12.1, Harleen Holmes,

[2:33:53] Trustee Patrick: be referred to the Regional Planning Committee.

[2:33:58] Voice 6: Moved.

[2:33:59] Voice 6: Seconded.

[2:34:00] Voice 6: Any further discussion?

[2:34:02] Voice 6: discussion? All those in favor? That's awesome. Thank you. Anything else with correspondence?

[2:34:09] Voice 6: Mary Boland.

[2:34:13] Voice 2: I would like to ensure that language such as is referenced by Miel

[2:34:19] Voice 2: Chander's letter is incorporated into the review by the ombudsperson. So do I need to make a motion

[2:34:27] Voice 2: or is that a given?

[2:34:29] Voice 6: Well, let's ask staff advice on that direction that we provided. I'm

[2:34:33] Voice 6: presuming we might get a wholesome review of language as well as content uh staff can you

[2:34:40] Voice 6: comment on that please yeah

[2:34:45] Voice 9: oh sorry

[2:34:46] Voice 2: uh

[2:34:48] Trustee Bernardo: thank you mr chair history instinct to stand yeah i i think

[2:34:51] Trustee Bernardo: the uh earlier resolution passed will cover the whole gamut of policy language and um procedure

[2:34:58] Voice 6: okay as well and so you know that's now on the record that we will be doing that just because

[2:35:03] Voice 6: because we've had that discussion.

[2:35:04] Voice 6: So thank you for that.

[2:35:07] Voice 6: So I'm going to take it then that I'll continue on

[2:35:10] Voice 6: from correspondence over to our new business section.

[2:35:15] Voice 6: There's two items here.

[2:35:17] Voice 6: The first one at 14.1, tree cutting advocacy

[2:35:20] Voice 6: rescind September 20 request to the province.

[2:35:24] Voice 6: And this is a trustee RFD, and this is from Jamie Harris.

[2:35:28] Voice 6: So Jamie, do you want to speak to your motion?

[2:35:31] Voice 3: I'll do my best, I'm a bit tired here.

[2:35:33] Voice 3: And part of me is concerned that if part of my what I'd like to say about this has to do with the delegation, does it need to go on camera?

[2:35:47] Voice 3: I don't know. Maybe I can be warned if I'm walking into murky territories.

[2:35:53] Voice 3: So I think that, you know, I'm clearly in support of rescinding this.

[2:36:01] Voice 3: It started a long time ago.

[2:36:03] Voice 3: Although it's one of the reasons I'm sitting here today, you know, started with the CDF and Associated Ecosystems Project kickoff meeting on salt spring.

[2:36:12] Voice 3: May have been 2019 or something along those lines.

[2:36:15] Voice 3: And at the very beginning of the meter, I heard the trustee who's not here today say 70 percent of salt spring could be cut, clear cut tomorrow.

[2:36:25] Voice 3: And I thought, well, that sounds a little bit, you know, alarmist.

[2:36:30] Voice 3: And I could never see something like that actually happening.

[2:36:33] Voice 3: and then they proceeded to say well this isn't about logging and so i made comments at the end

[2:36:39] Voice 3: of the meeting i heard lots of statements in the meeting which i would honestly love to possibly

[2:36:44] Voice 3: see that meeting there's a recording of it one day um to go over it but statements like that

[2:36:50] Voice 3: um immediately again set off alarm bells and then we i heard from um you know planners and then uh

[2:36:59] Voice 3: CDF toolkit stuff came out, new draft policy statement review and pretty alarming stuff to anybody working in the forest industry or people who come after the fact, which are many.

[2:37:14] Voice 3: And on Salt Spring, we're talking about thousands of people's livelihoods that were, you know, made to feel unsecure.

[2:37:21] Voice 3: Sure, and I heard, Mr. Chair, you say yesterday so eloquently

[2:37:27] Voice 3: when speaking about the advocacy,

[2:37:30] Voice 3: I'm trying to think of the name of the position that was being applied for,

[2:37:34] Voice 3: but, you know, and you spoke to the fact that, you know,

[2:37:37] Voice 3: these are human beings we're talking about, and they need

[2:37:39] Voice 3: to feel secure.

[2:37:41] Voice 3: And it led me right to thinking about this request to rescind this request

[2:37:48] Voice 3: west street cutting authority and um yeah because we're talking about real people with mothers and

[2:37:55] Voice 3: fathers and children um spouses who um you know times are already tough and uh and really i you

[2:38:06] Voice 3: know i don't see and many of us don't see a real problem with uh with what's happening on private

[2:38:13] Voice 3: private property on Salt Spring and other islands um you know I do understand from the point of view

[2:38:19] Voice 3: I've talked to um um trustee Getty um to some degree about this and we touched on the fact

[2:38:28] Voice 3: that on some islands there are large pieces of Crown land that um clear cutting can possibly

[2:38:34] Voice 3: be an issue via Ministry of Forest timber sale activity and um you know and if that's the case

[2:38:43] Voice 3: Maybe we need to address that with Ministry of Forests accordingly.

[2:38:49] Voice 3: But to regulate private property where we clearly see very, for the most part, clearly sustainable practices being used.

[2:39:03] Voice 3: Now, on Salt Spring, we already have 30% of the island protected.

[2:39:10] Voice 3: And as far as conservancy goes, that was about two years ago.

[2:39:13] Voice 3: Within the last year, and perhaps Trustee Laura can confirm this later, but we've had close to 600 acres being added into Conservancy and protected land.

[2:39:28] Voice 3: So we're doing a pretty good job, and it's something to be celebrated.

[2:39:31] Voice 3: We have vigorous growth, you know, many, many people, again, who want to feel secure in their roles in the community as productive, producing, hardworking, salt of the earth members of the community, including many, many local Indigenous and First Nations who are very alarmed by this tree cutting request to the province and really are unsure about where it's going to go.

[2:40:01] Voice 3: and don't want to see it happening so can i ask you to move to the motion sure if you guys get

[2:40:11] Voice 3: my drift um again i'm pretty tired here so i'm hoping i've put forth a good argument yeah so i

[2:40:19] Voice 3: move the islands trust council requests the chair to promptly inform the province that it no longer

[2:40:28] Voice 3: wishes to proceed with its request that the province enhance the trust's jurisdiction over

[2:40:34] Voice 3: tree cutting bylaws to make its jurisdiction equal to that of municipalities under section

[2:40:39] Voice 3: eight of the community charter and also request staff to remove the task from trust council's

[2:40:46] Voice 3: follow-up action list i would love to speak a little bit more to that um so let's just

[2:40:56] Voice 6: follow through the process and i'll let you speak to the motion thank you separately so we've got it

[2:41:01] Voice 6: uh moved do i have a seconder i have a seconder from deb morrison and so that motion is now on

[2:41:06] Voice 6: the table as uh up on the screen and uh so if you just wish to uh finish uh speaking to your motion

[2:41:13] Voice 6: that'd be great and

[2:41:14] Voice 20: chair luckham can i just make a clarification for folks on the second being thing

[2:41:17] Voice 20: yes so just a a point of clarification around seconding seconding does not necessarily mean

[2:41:24] Voice 20: that you agree with emotion seconding means that you want it to be heard and discussed

[2:41:30] Voice 6: absolutely thank you um finish speaking to your motion sir on

[2:41:35] Voice 3: salt spring island we've had

[2:41:37] Voice 3: numerous elections um or referendums regarding municipalities and and be going coming you know

[2:41:46] Voice 3: being put into a municipality and there's been a strong vote of no um for the last three

[2:41:51] Voice 3: referendums if i can recall um possibly four that we don't want municipality or those types of

[2:41:58] Voice 3: powers that come with it um being imposed on our community um and i would just like people to think

[2:42:06] Voice 3: of the human aspect and that if we want people to change their ways which again the vast majority

[2:42:14] Voice 3: of people are doing a great job the landowners which include many many first nations are

[2:42:20] Voice 3: stewarding their land in a very responsible way possibly we can educate others on different

[2:42:29] Voice 3: techniques regarding carbon sequestration optimization techniques or wildfire risk

[2:42:35] Voice 3: reduction techniques, spacing techniques that would help in both of the

[2:42:44] Voice 3: prior techniques I mentioned that would also encourage natural regeneration of coastal

[2:42:50] Voice 3: Douglas fir. And we do have vigorous growth and natural regeneration given the right

[2:42:56] Voice 3: in the right conditions.

[2:43:01] Voice 3: Maybe I'll leave it at that

[2:43:02] Voice 6: and see what anyone else has to say on this.

[2:43:03] Voice 6: Thank you.

[2:43:04] Voice 6: Thank you very much.

[2:43:06] Voice 6: So we have a motion on the floor, moved and seconded.

[2:43:08] Voice 6: And I'm going to look for speakers list here.

[2:43:11] Voice 6: I see Toby Elliot, Christine Evans,

[2:43:16] Voice 6: Kate Stamford, and Sterling Fast.

[2:43:22] Voice 6: Anybody on this side of the room?

[2:43:23] Voice 6: Laura Patrick.

[2:43:25] Voice 6: Oh, Laura Patrick, I missed you there.

[2:43:26] Voice 6: there okay anybody else okay let's start off with toby elliott on the motion on the floor

[2:43:33] Voice 6: um

[2:43:35] Voice 17: i would like to request that we could split this in half because there's actually two actions

[2:43:41] Voice 17: being asked of council and i support from a process point of view and just from a logistical

[2:43:49] Voice 17: point of view the second part because we need to undertake our strategic plan until that plan is

[2:43:55] Voice 17: done our follow-up action list flows from that plan so i would like to separate these two

[2:44:02] Voice 17: first of all the if we do the first one my concern is muddying the waters in a conversation with the

[2:44:09] Voice 17: province sorry yeah

[2:44:11] Voice 6: so i just want to be clear on the process here now so what you want to do

[2:44:14] Voice 6: is sever the motion yeah that's the language and you want to sever it at the comma in the

[2:44:20] Voice 6: the second to last

[2:44:21] Voice 17: community charter line

[2:44:22] Voice 6: after the community charter so i just want to seek some

[2:44:26] Voice 6: clarity from staff and i realize our legislative service manager has left uh a motion to sever

[2:44:31] Voice 6: is treated as a normal motion in order and just proceed accordingly okay no special circumstance

[2:44:37] Voice 6: so back to you trustee elliott and i'll just get you to make that motion

[2:44:43] Voice 17: um uh well may i finish my very

[2:44:47] Voice 6: quick reasoning is i

[2:44:48] Voice 17: think that by separating them

[2:44:51] Voice 17: and i can support the second one of removing it from our follow-up action list will effectively

[2:44:56] Voice 17: accomplish what um the intent is of the motion and i could support that action so i move

[2:45:02] Voice 17: that this recommended or this motion be severed after community charter and that two separate

[2:45:12] Voice 17: motions be put on the floor for consideration of council.

[2:45:17] Voice 6: Okay, thank you. Do I have a seconder

[2:45:19] Voice 6: for the motion to sever? Ben Mabry, you're seconding the motion. Okay, thank you. And so

[2:45:27] Voice 6: do we need to debate it? I'm going to call for the vote on severing the motion.

[2:45:33] Voice 9: motion all those in favor hands up all those in favor how many nine okay now those opposed

[2:46:10] Voice 6: so i think that fails sorry toby um so i'm going to return to the unsevered motion on the floor

[2:46:17] Voice 6: is there any further discussion um i have a speaker's list so i'm going to follow my speaker's

[2:46:24] Voice 6: list which now proceeds to christina evans sorry

[2:46:30] Voice 14: apologies i thought you were cutting the

[2:46:31] Voice 14: conversation off there um so i have a question and i don't know who this goes to but the small

[2:46:39] Voice 14: amount of information that i have regarding um municipal jurisdiction regarding clear cutting

[2:46:45] Voice 14: or not clear cutting i beg your pardon um um tree cutting tree removal um has to do with

[2:46:54] Voice 14: municipal areas it's only related to urban settings and most of our islands are rural

[2:47:01] Voice 14: settings and I'm not sure how that translates because of how the municipal tree cutting bylaws

[2:47:08] Voice 14: are written so I don't know if it's even applicable to our islands and therefore I will

[2:47:13] Voice 14: support this recommendation to pull.

[2:47:16] Voice 6: Thank you. Sue Ellen Fast.

[2:47:20] Trustee Fast: Thank you chair. As somebody who

[2:47:23] Trustee Fast: has a one of my hats is a municipal councillor hat my other one is a trustee for the islands

[2:47:31] Trustee Fast: trust area. And so I've had a little bit of experience with tree cutting bylaws. Bowen has

[2:47:38] Trustee Fast: been a municipality for over 20 years. We have not adopted one yet, but I've seen several drafts

[2:47:43] Trustee Fast: that have come forward. And you can have a tree cutting bylaw just for a little area. You can have

[2:47:49] Trustee Fast: a tree cutting bylaw that says just trees over a certain diameter, breast height, whatever you want

[2:47:54] Trustee Fast: to specify. They can be tailored to the need. I think that it's a good idea to have the powers

[2:48:04] Trustee Fast: if needed, because if the Islands Trust gets tree cutting, you know, jurisdiction over tree cutting

[2:48:13] Trustee Fast: bylaws, then it would be up, as I understand it, to the local trust committee as to whether they

[2:48:20] Trustee Fast: adopt a tree cutting bylaw or not. So it's not imposing anything. It's just another tool

[2:48:27] Trustee Fast: in the toolkit that can be used on something big or small. It's a power we might need 20

[2:48:34] Trustee Fast: years from now. It takes a long time to get these powers, so I'll be voting against this

[2:48:38] Trustee Fast: motion. Thank you.

[2:48:39] Trustee Fast: Thank

[2:48:39] Voice 6: you. Laura Patrick is my last speaker on the list. I'm going to go Susan Yeh. We

[2:48:45] Voice 6: We've got more hands here.

[2:48:46] Voice 6: Didn't I have you speak already?

[2:48:49] Voice 6: Oh, I apologize.

[2:48:52] Voice 6: Sorry.

[2:48:53] Voice 6: Kate Louise Stamford is next.

[2:48:55] Voice 6: For some reason, I got ahead of myself.

[2:48:58] Voice 6: Laura Patrick.

[2:48:59] Voice 6: I'm tired, too.

[2:48:59] Voice 6: Susan Yates.

[2:49:02] Voice 6: Joe Bernardo.

[2:49:04] Voice 6: Deb Morrison.

[2:49:05] Voice 6: Who else?

[2:49:05] Voice 6: Hands up.

[2:49:06] Voice 6: Jamie Harris.

[2:49:08] Voice 6: Tim Peterson.

[2:49:12] Voice 6: Okay, I think I'm going to start asking who doesn't want to speak on it.

[2:49:15] Voice 6: Make it easier.

[2:49:15] Voice 6: Off we go.

[2:49:16] Voice 6: Not being disrespectful.

[2:49:19] Voice 6: Laura Patrick.

[2:49:20] Voice 6: Oh, Kate, we got to get a bite while the opposite.

[2:49:26] Voice 18: I'm beginning to get a complex here.

[2:49:28] Voice 6: Yeah,

[2:49:28] Voice 18: I will not be in favor of this motion, not because I recognize some of the concerns that Salt Spring trustee has about his island.

[2:49:39] Voice 18: But this is encompassing all the islands.

[2:49:43] Voice 18: I see that potentially down the road, there could be an opportunity to use this in a very specific way.

[2:49:50] Voice 18: I'd like to at least have that conversation and the ability to talk about it and bring it forward.

[2:49:56] Voice 18: Also, using my other hat for regional districts, the rural regional districts are looking for the same ability that municipalities have in this particular aspect and how it can be then translated to their powers as well.

[2:50:13] Voice 18: Thank you. Laura

[2:50:14] Voice 6: Patrick now.

[2:50:15] Voice 6: now

[2:50:16] Trustee Patrick: that's correct the regional districts have asked the province to consider giving it these

[2:50:22] Trustee Patrick: powers uh in my research at ubcm at least three times and the answer all three times was no um

[2:50:30] Trustee Patrick: perhaps something customized and i believe that's the same answer that we received

[2:50:35] Trustee Patrick: was no but something customized i'm looking over at mr hudson pillar um he's not going to answer

[2:50:43] Trustee Patrick: so but i did hear and from what we were that there was going to be more work needed the

[2:50:49] Trustee Patrick: province needed to know what we wanted to do how it would be implemented and there was considerable

[2:50:54] Trustee Patrick: work and if it were to be implemented how do we do it all of those questions so i absolutely

[2:51:01] Trustee Patrick: support that there is a valid reason to look at what we need to do going forward but i think

[2:51:07] Trustee Patrick: this needs to be swallowed into the strategic planning exercise for this term and very

[2:51:13] Trustee Patrick: clarified as to what what we hope to achieve if anything is to be considered because we we just

[2:51:22] Trustee Patrick: sort of barrel down this approach without taking that time to say what do we really want to achieve

[2:51:26] Trustee Patrick: which did aggravate and and make people who rely on this on forests concerned because we weren't

[2:51:35] Trustee Patrick: clear. So I'm going to support the motion and we can revisit

[2:51:39] Trustee Patrick: it in the strategic planning exercise.

[2:51:42] Voice 6: Thank you, Laura. Susan Yates.

[2:51:45] Voice 21: Thank you, Chair Luckham. I will not support the motion and

[2:51:49] Voice 21: I hope that the Trust Council does not take it up off

[2:51:53] Voice 21: the follow-up action list only because I have been listening

[2:51:57] Voice 21: for decades, not just years, decades

[2:52:01] Voice 21: from people on my island and other islands

[2:52:05] Voice 21: because I am on the other islands all the time begging for the trust to find some tools to

[2:52:12] Voice 21: support the mandate this is one little tool that would support the mandate so I will not be voting

[2:52:20] Voice 21: in favor of this motion okay

[2:52:24] Voice 6: thank you Joe Bernardo I'm

[2:52:29] Trustee Bernardo: my comment is a minor one possibly

[2:52:33] Trustee Bernardo: possibly to the point of just annoying people but the um the proposed bylaws for Keats Island

[2:52:39] Trustee Bernardo: related to the Keats foreshore project which are still in progress um I think I believe the first

[2:52:47] Trustee Bernardo: iteration um proposed that was in um proposed the DPA along the foreshore of certain and we'll go

[2:52:56] Trustee Bernardo: into all the details but one of the aspects of it was a fairly restrictive approach to tree cutting

[2:53:04] Trustee Bernardo: and that's not directly relevant to to this but the reaction of islanders was ferociously opposed

[2:53:16] Trustee Bernardo: and as a result of that in due course that was actually pulled back and that was removed from

[2:53:23] Trustee Bernardo: a subsequent draft from it which showed sensitivity which i appreciated a lot of

[2:53:30] Trustee Bernardo: elements appreciated from thank you kate thank you dan rogers and thank you sue ellen who chaired

[2:53:36] Trustee Bernardo: those meetings so i'm only raising this not because it's directly relevant directly relevant

[2:53:42] Trustee Bernardo: but because um it uh there is a perception out there that the island's trust is overreaching

[2:53:53] Trustee Bernardo: and acquiring a power without a clear understanding

[2:53:58] Trustee Bernardo: of what you're going to do with it,

[2:54:01] Trustee Bernardo: that's going to be alarming to some people,

[2:54:03] Trustee Bernardo: especially the people who don't have a lot of confidence

[2:54:05] Trustee Bernardo: in the Alliance Trust already.

[2:54:07] Trustee Bernardo: And my thought is whether or not we acquire this power

[2:54:13] Trustee Bernardo: should be something that's really clearly thought out

[2:54:15] Trustee Bernardo: in the context of what our long-term strategies are.

[2:54:19] Trustee Bernardo: If it turns out this is a power that we actually need,

[2:54:22] Trustee Bernardo: like we have identified an objective need for it to implement a strategy that's one thing

[2:54:28] Trustee Bernardo: but in the absence of a genuine strategy it's hard to see why we should seek the power thank you joe

[2:54:37] Voice 6: uh deb morrison thank

[2:54:40] Voice 20: you um i have lots of things to say about this and i'm not going to say them

[2:54:47] Voice 20: right now because my argument i i'm going to argue against this right now but it's actually

[2:54:53] Voice 20: not on the basis of whether I agree or disagree with having the power it's more about I don't

[2:54:59] Voice 20: think that we as a council have had time to think about our strategic plan to understand what these

[2:55:05] Voice 20: long-term goals might be and I just I'm worried that we're we're jumping into just switching

[2:55:13] Voice 20: something that the last council did without truly understanding why the last council did it or why

[2:55:19] Voice 20: why we might want to.

[2:55:20] Voice 20: So I'm going to vote against it from that perspective.

[2:55:24] Voice 20: I will name that this is a massively contentious issue

[2:55:29] Voice 20: on my island, my island, North Pender Island.

[2:55:34] Voice 20: Yeah, so we've had a lot of people in public meetings

[2:55:39] Voice 20: around this issue.

[2:55:40] Voice 20: It is on all different sides about whether we should

[2:55:43] Voice 20: regulate or not.

[2:55:44] Voice 20: It's something we have to give a lot of community conversation

[2:55:47] Voice 20: to.

[2:55:49] Voice 20: and i do think that there is potentially a space here where there's um there's nobody really

[2:55:57] Voice 20: looking at things but i think that needs to be clear to all of us so i'm just gonna i'm gonna

[2:56:03] Voice 20: vote against this at the moment thank

[2:56:05] Voice 6: you thank you tim peterson yeah

[2:56:09] Voice 10: thank you chair um coming

[2:56:11] Voice 10: from an island where essentially everybody still relies on wood for heat um we have large lots we

[2:56:20] Voice 10: of a 10-acre minimum subdivision lot size.

[2:56:27] Voice 10: Previous iteration of the trust policy statement draft,

[2:56:32] Voice 10: which was advocating for tree-cutting regulation

[2:56:38] Voice 10: of trust-wide area,

[2:56:41] Voice 10: a trust area-wide basis,

[2:56:44] Voice 10: extremely, extremely unpopular.

[2:56:46] Voice 10: um i'd be remiss if i if i didn't uh represent the constituents of of my home island in this

[2:56:56] Voice 10: respect at the same time i recognize that there may be situations and islands where it's entirely

[2:57:07] Voice 10: appropriate to regulate tree cutting in some form in some areas and i respect that i respect that

[2:57:14] Voice 10: that's uh totally appropriate in some places what i have total concern about is anything that is in

[2:57:24] Voice 10: a trust area wide regulation i understand that this uh request is uh it has been identified

[2:57:34] Voice 10: for local trust committees i do understand that but i i think that uh similar to some of the other

[2:57:41] Voice 10: people have heard around the table um i honestly don't think that the request as it stands

[2:57:49] Voice 10: is going to get any action from the province i think if we want to think about targeted tree

[2:57:55] Voice 10: cutting regulation we need to do so uh in a in a much better thought out manner um and uh

[2:58:06] Voice 10: so what i'm trying to make clear is is that i think it's totally appropriate to regulate tree

[2:58:12] Voice 10: cutting in in some circumstances in some areas and and i i don't uh support any kind of a trust area

[2:58:21] Voice 10: wide um regulation and i don't think it's worthy to keep a project on our list that has little to

[2:58:30] Voice 10: no chance of getting any traction with the ministry um so i am going to support this motion

[2:58:36] Voice 10: All right.

[2:58:40] Voice 6: I'm going to put myself on the speaker's list.

[2:58:44] Voice 6: And speaking as an individual, as a person, I want to thank all the conversation.

[2:58:49] Voice 6: But I want to particularly thank Susan Yates for her compassionate plea on this.

[2:58:56] Voice 6: And Sue Ellen Fast for her input on this and why we should be doing this.

[2:59:02] Voice 6: I've been maybe a little closer to the conversation with the province and others.

[2:59:06] Voice 6: um this is a difficult ask and indeed the province has asked for a lot of clarity

[2:59:14] Voice 6: and the suggestion broadly is municipal power is equal to that of those of those provided under

[2:59:22] Voice 6: section 8 is not necessarily a good fit and would not necessarily achieve the outcome that we desire

[2:59:28] Voice 6: desire I completely support the desire for uh having some ability to I prefer to use manage

[2:59:36] Voice 6: manage the outcomes of development I'm I'm not convinced that this is the right tool it will be

[2:59:44] Voice 6: an ongoing costly time-consuming project I think we need to refine the ask and so I would I'm going

[2:59:51] Voice 6: to support the motion and suggest that we come back with them and maybe that'll come out of our

[2:59:56] Voice 6: our whole forest management conversation we're about to have.

[3:00:00] Voice 6: that will come and indeed we have more voices at the table than we've had before that can help

[3:00:04] Voice 6: inform us that we can go back to the province with a better ask if we can't simply use the tools

[3:00:10] Voice 6: in a more enhanced way that we already have the powers there are powers we have we haven't

[3:00:15] Voice 6: necessarily explored them and there are bigger fish that we want to ask the province to fry for

[3:00:21] Voice 6: us actually quite honestly so that's my two cents if there's no further questions i'll

[3:00:27] Voice 6: comments I'll call for the vote uh uh no okay uh Jamie Harris

[3:00:36] Voice 3: just quickly and thank you for

[3:00:39] Voice 3: your comments Mr. Chair um I'm not gonna I've jotted down a bunch of points as after hearing

[3:00:47] Voice 3: everybody speak and I appreciate everybody's thoughts um a couple small things I'd love to

[3:00:53] Voice 3: mention is that we already have regulations to a large degree by watersheds riparian areas where

[3:01:03] Voice 3: tree cutting is already regulated and for really good reasons and a great job has been done with

[3:01:09] Voice 3: that um and as far as this not being a or you know thought that this is just a small tool

[3:01:18] Voice 3: in a lot of people's eyes you know human beings whose livelihoods are on the line this seems like

[3:01:24] Voice 3: a big hammer coming down on top of them and not a small tool at all um and the thought of ltc's

[3:01:31] Voice 3: having this um you know you know each island can have the choice or not that really leaves the

[3:01:38] Voice 3: feeling of unsecurity hanging and looming over a lot of people's heads that are involved in them

[3:01:45] Voice 3: um and working in the forest who care but deeply the vast majority care very deeply about

[3:01:50] Voice 3: you know keeping their um the the forest and healthy enough that they can continue their um

[3:01:58] Voice 3: their work um in

[3:02:02] Voice 6: the interest of time jamie can

[3:02:04] Voice 3: we get to the okay but here's the big

[3:02:05] Voice 3: campaign line um you know

[3:02:08] Voice 3: educate not regulate and

[3:02:12] Voice 6: i think we

[3:02:12] Voice 3: have some really good opportunities

[3:02:14] Voice 3: to do just that okay council

[3:02:17] Voice 6: can i call the vote on this you want to say something deb

[3:02:23] Voice 20: yeah i'm torn i'm super torn by

[3:02:26] Voice 20: this because like the issue for us is that like we are getting a lot

[3:02:30] Voice 20: of cutting on private land and nobody seems to have jurisdiction over that or like a way to

[3:02:35] Voice 20: regulate and we don't have a lot of dpas that cover that you know and so it's an enormous struggle and

[3:02:41] Voice 20: And I don't see what the other tools are, you know, like, so I am super struggling with

[3:02:48] Voice 20: understanding this and I want, I, I actually am swayed by what you say, like to think about

[3:02:54] Voice 20: other things.

[3:02:54] Voice 20: And yet we have looked at some of those and we have had some of these conversations.

[3:02:59] Voice 20: So I'm going to vote against just because I, I feel like I need to have more thought

[3:03:04] Voice 20: about this and maybe it would be a repeal in the future, but I just can't do it yet.

[3:03:10] Voice 6: Right.

[3:03:11] Voice 6: And I just want to respond to that, because you're absolutely right.

[3:03:15] Voice 6: This is really difficult.

[3:03:16] Voice 6: And I got to say that having chaired North Pender, North Pender actually has some of the best development permit areas in the Islands Trust, and it's still difficult.

[3:03:28] Voice 6: So we have to think about this carefully, but I think we need to think about what we're asking for.

[3:03:33] Voice 6: Aaron Campbell, and then I want to go to the question.

[3:03:36] Voice 6: Aaron Campbell.

[3:03:37] Voice 23: I was just going to say that sort of in response to that,

[3:03:40] Voice 23: I don't think that this will ever probably be a dead issue in trust

[3:03:44] Voice 23: council. And it's more a delay, right?

[3:03:49] Voice 6: That's thank, thank you for that wisdom, Aaron. Appreciate that.

[3:03:52] Voice 6: Very quickly, very quickly. Thank you.

[3:03:56] Voice 3: This will actually be a way to regain some major credibility with a lot of

[3:04:01] Voice 3: the communities. And if we promote education rather than regulation,

[3:04:04] Voice 3: we could see a real turnaround. And again,

[3:04:06] Voice 3: I see a huge opportunity here for very, very positive movement.

[3:04:09] Voice 3: Okay, thank you. We're

[3:04:11] Voice 6: listening. Excellent. Can I call the question, folks? All those in favor, quick before you change your mind. Okay,

[3:04:29] Voice 6: so all those opposed, for the record. And you've got the online and making sure you're getting those guys airtime when they've asked for it. Okay, so I do believe that motion carries. Am I correct in that, Stefan?

[3:04:48] Voice 6: on okay thank you thank you uh council for the discussion and uh absolutely this is not going

[3:04:57] Voice 6: to go away we need to invest more time and energy in this it's important the next item on our agenda

[3:05:02] Voice 6: is 14-2 suspend proactive bylaw enforcement um i don't believe i have any written material maybe

[3:05:09] Voice 6: Maybe it did come late, I think.

[3:05:12] Voice 6: And so I'm going to turn to the sponsor of the motion to introduce it for us.

[3:05:24] Voice 23: I had written a motion basically requesting that Trust Council authorize a full review of bylaw services.

[3:05:39] Voice 23: and there's three points that we they're in the late agenda package right yeah and basically the

[3:05:52] Voice 23: meat of what the beginning from Trust Council would be is a review which Joe has made a motion

[3:05:59] Voice 23: for and we are entering into a process with the ombuds person to review bylaw services in crafting

[3:06:08] Voice 23: the motion um a couple of the uh the two other points basically through the education that we

[3:06:16] Voice 23: had the other day and what i had learned in the process of crafting the motion is that the real

[3:06:21] Voice 23: work of those second two come at the trust at the local trust council level and those are things

[3:06:29] Voice 23: that people need to have conversations in their communities about with the people in their

[3:06:34] Voice 23: communities and i can tell you that i heard from a lot of people not from north pender that have

[3:06:41] Voice 23: concerns from other communities that when they got wind of the fact that i had started to craft this

[3:06:48] Voice 23: motion that they came forward with concerns feeling like they weren't being heard on their

[3:06:54] Voice 23: island and that they and that the way the system the way they perceive the system to need to work

[3:07:01] Voice 23: isn't the way that it's working out for them.

[3:07:04] Voice 23: But that's a conversation that people need

[3:07:06] Voice 23: to have one-on-one to determine

[3:07:09] Voice 23: whether it actually is working out or not.

[3:07:14] Voice 23: And so I'm going to pull my motion and hold it

[3:07:19] Voice 23: and basically revisit after we get the ombudsman's report

[3:07:23] Voice 23: and we have more information about how to do what it is

[3:07:27] Voice 23: that we're supposed to do at the local trust level.

[3:07:30] Voice 6: Aaron, I want to thank you very much for that consideration, and they offered to withhold it at this time, and indeed look forward to you bringing that back in the future.

[3:07:39] Voice 6: And if that's satisfactory to Council, we'll move on on our agenda.

[3:07:44] Voice 6: Thank you.

[3:07:45] Voice 6: Thank you, Aaron.

[3:07:46] Voice 6: So this brings us to the trustee update section.

[3:07:51] Voice 6: I made a plea to you to submit anything we wanted to share with Council in writing and that that would be shared accordingly.

[3:07:58] Voice 6: Interestingly, I don't know how much I actually received, but Laura Patrick, you have something to add at this moment?

[3:08:05] Voice 6: I

[3:08:06] Trustee Patrick: just wanted to quickly talk about 15.4 Southern Gulf Island Forum.

[3:08:10] Trustee Patrick: They have an in-person meeting and a virtual option on this Monday.

[3:08:14] Trustee Patrick: So those of you in the Southern Gulf Island trustees, please try to attend.

[3:08:18] Trustee Patrick: I think Adam Olson in his office would appreciate it.

[3:08:21] Voice 6: okay um anything from anybody that they'd like to mention with respect to items on that agenda

[3:08:28] Voice 6: section although i do want to really encourage you to get this stuff in in advance to save us

[3:08:33] Voice 6: this kind of time that we're spending now kate louise stanford

[3:08:36] Voice 18: only that the house on community

[3:08:39] Voice 18: forum it will be having its next meeting towards the end of april and um the

[3:08:45] Voice 18: chair will be invited

[3:08:46] Voice 6: it perfect anything else nope okay so thank you everybody on trustee updates the priority chart

[3:08:54] Voice 6: is on the list here for your information essentially what the priorities are this will

[3:08:59] Voice 6: be updated um uh and ideally is relatively up to date it might be a few of last ltc meetings that

[3:09:07] Voice 6: were included in it is there anything really onerous that's missing there okay so then we'll

[3:09:13] Voice 6: receive that for information the strategic plan amendments um um i don't believe we have those

[3:09:22] Voice 6: ceo hudson post strategic plan amendments nothing in there thank you uh proposed june trust council

[3:09:28] Voice 6: session is um that's not there's nothing at this time on that agenda do we have that

[3:09:41] Voice 6: it's just the basic three-day schedule right

[3:09:45] Voice 7: so that will be developed

[3:09:46] Voice 6: and um that will become

[3:09:47] Voice 6: come apparent as time goes by yeah so guess what unless there's any further business it's time to

[3:09:55] Voice 6: go home and our next meeting will be june the 27th to 29th on gabriola

[3:10:06] Voice 6: everybody thank you for your endurance as you could see i'm happy travels uh be safe

[3:10:13] Voice 5: Bye-bye.

[3:10:15] Voice 6: Possibly get-home bag.

[3:10:17] Voice 6: I hope

[3:10:18] Voice 25: you can possibly get home.

[3:10:22] Voice 6: A motion to adjourn.

[3:10:23] Voice 6: Quick.

[3:10:24] Voice 6: All those in favor?

[3:10:25] Voice 6: I think we have a...

[3:10:26] Voice 6: Otherwise, we're stuck here in limbo forever.

[3:10:29] Voice 6: That carries.

[3:10:31] Voice 6: Go for the muffins.

[3:10:33] Voice 6: There were some nice cranberry ones.

[3:10:35] Voice 6: Thank you.

[3:10:36] Voice 6: Thank you.

[3:10:36] Thank you.