North Pender Island Local Trust Committee special meeting, March 11, 2023

[0:00:04] Trustee Maude: All right, thank you. We're going to have a brief formal start to the meeting, and then we'll get over to William's presentation.

[0:00:11] So thank you very much for coming. This is a special meeting of the Tender Island Local Trust Committee.

[0:00:17] I want to begin by acknowledging that we're fortunate to be able

[0:00:20] Trustee Maude: to gather today in locations across the traditional territory of the Coastal Salish people.

[0:00:24] Trustee Maude: I'm David Rodham, and I'm made out of the chair.

[0:00:27] Trustee Maude: David,

[0:00:28] Voice 6: it's just not live-streaming quite yet. Just give me a minute.

[0:00:30] Voice 6: Okay.

[0:00:31] Voice 6: We

[0:00:31] Trustee Maude: have to shut up for a sec.

[0:00:35] Trustee Maude: Yes, yes, the Papa Master from Victoria has told me I'm misbehaving, so.

[0:00:41] Voice 7: How do you know it's Victoria's?

[0:00:48] Trustee Maude: I know.

[0:00:50] Trustee Maude: This is the advantage of working remotely is we're remotely controlled, so.

[0:01:11] Yes, I know.

[0:01:21] Voice 2: burning down here and i walked in i was like

[0:01:28] it's a miracle

[0:02:06] Trustee Maude: yeah i think i think we're just going to proceed here if that's okay um so i said i made a month

[0:02:11] from main island you have your two local trustees eric campbell and deb morrison then we have a

[0:02:18] plethora of our planning

[0:02:19] Trustee Maude: staff we have ursa chadwick and brad smith and william shula

[0:02:25] Trustee Maude: and kim stockdale so you're well represented here um as i said this is electronic um so it's

[0:02:34] recorded and it will be posted to our website a few days if you want to refer back what i just

[0:02:41] want to say is this is our workspace we

[0:02:46] Trustee Maude: expect people to be well behaved and respectful everybody

[0:02:51] Trustee Maude: will have an opportunity to talk and if something's going sideways they're going to have to interrupt

[0:02:57] Trustee Maude: because we're going to be civilized in that and hopefully everybody will be i think at that we'll

[0:03:04] we'll turn this over uh to william shiva now

[0:03:07] Trustee Maude: she's got a live streaming so we'll pass it to

[0:03:12] Trustee Maude: william i'll switch the camera over so people can see what william said thank you my name is

[0:03:30] i'm the freshwater specialist i'm a professional geoscientist i have my background is in hydro

[0:03:38] geology which is groundwater science and in the past decade i've been studying watersheds and

[0:03:44] and how groundwater and ecosystems

[0:03:47] and how it supports ecosystems

[0:03:55] Voice 8: and communities.

[0:03:57] Voice 8: Really

[0:03:58] Voice 1: interested in

[0:03:59] Voice 8: island hydrogeology.

[0:04:00] Voice 8: I started my work on from there,

[0:04:07] Voice 2: more around nuclear weapons testing

[0:04:12] Voice 2: from the US government on Amchitka Island,

[0:04:16] Voice 2: which was the start of Greenpeace.

[0:04:19] So I had the pleasure of going,

[0:04:23] that's what kicked off hydrogeology

[0:04:26] and i've been with the average trust now for six years

[0:04:29] Voice 8: so i am going

[0:04:31] Voice 2: to go to the slide

[0:04:33] Voice 9: this is a um

[0:04:42] Voice 8: so yeah i'll just start today um this presentation is going to be

[0:04:49] Voice 8: a balance of science and how it's leading to kind of carried away with the science so i have

[0:05:00] curtailed myself through the design of this presentation so it seems kind of over the

[0:05:05] of course it's by design but feel free to ask me questions after if you want any more detail

[0:05:14] there's also a professional report on the recharge mapping that we've done

[0:05:20] review at your

[0:05:21] Voice 7: pleasure and i think at this time if there's any questions i'll have to direct them

[0:05:26] Voice 7: perhaps into the ltc um

[0:05:30] Voice 2: i know this might be old hat but i always like to start off

[0:05:40] of the presentation on groundwater resources or freshwater

[0:05:43] by

[0:05:43] Voice 8: reflecting on our object.

[0:05:45] Voice 8: And you can read it as best as I can,

[0:05:50] Voice 8: but I want to provide some assurance

[0:05:55] that this work is not just from my head, my desk.

[0:05:59] It has been in cooperation with regional districts

[0:06:03] and the province.

[0:06:05] The province was

[0:06:06] Voice 8: on a selection consultant

[0:06:09] that helps with the recharge mapping project,

[0:06:12] and they were also external on this project, so they provided a review, that was a provincial

[0:06:21] hydrogeology.

[0:06:25] So I appreciate the territorial development from Salt Spring Island, that's where I'm

[0:06:34] living.

[0:06:36] I'm very honored and blessed to be in the

[0:06:40] Voice 8: territories, and this is a beautiful poem

[0:06:47] Voice 8: and drawing of what you did.

[0:07:05] Voice 1: so

[0:07:15] Voice 2: as

[0:07:16] Voice 8: a hydrogeologist i have a personal passion for for the islands and by living on one of them

[0:07:26] and drinking groundwater but also from my professional aspect and being exposed to

[0:07:34] groundwater resources across western canada that um can professionally professionally assure that

[0:07:42] that groundwater

[0:07:43] Voice 8: is a unique amenity

[0:07:44] Voice 8: in the Honest Trust area and should be treated as such.

[0:07:48] Voice 8: All the water comes from meteoric water,

[0:07:50] Voice 8: which means that all groundwater comes from precipitation

[0:07:54] that directly falls on the island.

[0:07:57] There's no off-island imports of water

[0:08:01] except on sea ferries.

[0:08:04] and or you know so so rain snow fog

[0:08:13] Voice 8: provides all essential fresh water

[0:08:17] Voice 8: there has been a growing awareness of groundwater sustainability

[0:08:26] Voice 8: groundwater is one of the most precious resources of all humans and there's a global call to action

[0:08:37] action and uh there's if you'd like to know more about this you can go to groundwaterstatement.org

[0:08:44] and it's a group of scientists

[0:08:46] Voice 8: and practitioners calling for action to ensure groundwater benefits

[0:08:51] Voice 8: society now and into the future

[0:08:53] Voice 2: and the reason why I bring this up because I think there are three

[0:08:58] tenets of of how to approach this is uh makes a lot of sense put a

[0:09:03] Voice 8: spotlight on global groundwater

[0:09:06] Voice 8: water sustainability and the un declared it in 2021 in the year of groundwater um managing

[0:09:12] Voice 8: government groundwater sustainability from local to global scales and that's what we're doing right

[0:09:17] Voice 8: now and and what we're really lacking is third one invest in groundwater governance and management

[0:09:23] but i would say that on the coast the west coast uh provincial staff industry force and the honest

[0:09:29] trust has invested in groundwater and and at this time i'd also like to point out that the north

[0:09:37] pender local trust committee was one of the leading local trust committees to

[0:09:42] Voice 8: kick start

[0:09:43] Voice 8: this work the majority of the work i'm doing right now is run through the regional planning committee

[0:09:49] Voice 8: so it's federation-wide but a few years ago started grassroots where the

[0:09:54] Voice 2: local trust committee

[0:09:56] Voice 2: invested directly.

[0:10:01] Voice 9: This map here is a really interesting map. It's taking

[0:10:04] Voice 8: all the groundwater

[0:10:07] Voice 8: below the feet and flooding it on the surface. So taking all the groundwater in a certain location

[0:10:15] Voice 8: and putting it on the surface and the dark blue here is about 50 meters of depth. So imagine

[0:10:23] Voice 8: all the water from below the feet is that's how much water is about 50 meters

[0:10:28] Voice 1: all the way down

[0:10:28] Voice 8: to zero. And the reason why I like this map is that you can see there's very arid regions

[0:10:36] Voice 8: in our part of the world juxtaposed to very groundwater rich regions. And

[0:10:46] when you have such a tension between high and low water resources in a changing climate,

[0:10:58] climate, there can be vast shifts in how the landscape responds to the influences of climate

[0:11:08] change.

[0:11:08] So what I'm trying to say is that areas like the coast where we are, are likely more vulnerable

[0:11:14] Voice 8: to climate change than areas say like in the Amazon or in the deserts, because there's

[0:11:22] this tension between abundant and non-abundant groundwater.

[0:11:28] water. So the overall intention of the groundwater sustainability science program is to establish

[0:11:36] the groundwater footprint on the illness trust area using evidence-based sustainability planning

[0:11:43] and so historically how development was undertaken with considering water was the cautionary

[0:11:54] principle uh which kind of like aided this lack of knowledge of groundwater recharge and

[0:12:01] availability um but with the changing climate and increasing societal stressors and affordable

[0:12:08] housing needs uh the precautionary principle is not applicable because we need to have a more

[0:12:16] refined look at groundwater resources and and essentially put housing in tight fits and so

[0:12:25] that's kind of the premise for

[0:12:27] Voice 8: for this work and and maybe this is a little forward from my

[0:12:33] Voice 8: statement but we just cannot use the past fun for the future you

[0:12:37] Voice 5: know unpack the precautionary

[0:12:38] Voice 5: principle what do you mean so

[0:12:41] Voice 8: the precautionary principle is in i mean it's a it's a very

[0:12:46] very broad statement in in this respect for for water um for example an authorization for a

[0:12:56] domestic house is 2 000 liters per day i was just talking to some people from from the island where

[0:13:03] they have rainwater harvesting at 8 000 gallons of tears in the summer so it's just an example

[0:13:10] where the precautionary principle by looking at 2 000 liters per day for dwelling would have

[0:13:17] Voice 8: omitted that that dwelling if that was the regulatory kind of cut off and also

[0:13:25] Voice 8: restricted the innovation to to providing water for housing so

[0:13:33] Voice 8: um yeah i think that's the best way that i can say with respect to water

[0:13:39] Voice 5: just a working definition so i

[0:13:42] Voice 5: mean it's basically considering uh

[0:13:44] Voice 5: uh the

[0:13:45] Voice 7: pop uh it's planning in a in a way that considers um like the consequences of of water

[0:13:55] Voice 7: being of drought for example right we don't know exactly what it would be but we know the science

[0:14:01] Voice 7: tells us that it's going to be this much and the postulatory principle would be to to plan to

[0:14:07] Voice 7: address the like what might be the worst case scenario thank

[0:14:13] Voice 8: you narissa yeah huge

[0:14:14] Voice 8: so i will be speaking to projects that are within the groundwater sustainability science program

[0:14:32] which is underneath the larger umbrella called the freshwater sustainability strategy that

[0:14:40] at Yavins Trust with the help of Narissa and various partners and First Nation involvement,

[0:14:50] we created a strategy that embraced the groundwater work that's been occurring for

[0:14:56] Voice 8: a long time,

[0:14:58] Voice 8: but since I started in 2017.

[0:15:00] Voice 8: There's several other projects under this program.

[0:15:04] Voice 8: We've done saltwater intrusion mapping with the province, and we've also done groundwater

[0:15:09] Voice 8: availability assessments which looks at water balance um in the southern gulf islands including

[0:15:14] north pender it's just and and so i say that because that's a scope for this meeting uh what

[0:15:21] we're looking at this meeting is groundwater recharge mapping and the implementation of

[0:15:27] groundwater recharge mapping uh for north pender which nurse will talk more about to to protect

[0:15:34] the groundwater recharge which in my opinion is the most important part of the entire water cycle

[0:15:40] the island does support the ecosystems and the watersheds and also provides groundwater to the

[0:15:47] wells that we use and also supports

[0:15:50] Voice 7: the marine environment as well and and so i just wanted to

[0:15:57] Voice 7: so this kind of spells out a bit more so the the to to understand the vulnerability of the regions

[0:16:08] and I was talking to you about the question that arises where scarcity on the island potentially

[0:16:20] can be development or where there shouldn't be development and if we look at a risk and

[0:16:26] vulnerability approach the one way to do this is to look at a groundwater balance

[0:16:31] the balance is between demand or availability so so how much water the system and humans using

[0:16:41] and how was the productivity of the aquifer so how much recharge is how much precipitation is

[0:16:48] recharging to the ground how well does that aquifer move that water around to all and to

[0:16:55] balance these two uh gives

[0:16:58] Voice 8: us an understanding of the

[0:17:05] Voice 2: ability to increase density so I want to

[0:17:11] recharge as as I will uh discuss and

[0:17:14] Voice 8: I almost want to call it watershed recharge because

[0:17:17] because it seems like groundwater just tucks it away

[0:17:21] for our use, but really this is a whole holistic environment,

[0:17:27] especially on fractured bedrock like we have here.

[0:17:29] So there's

[0:17:31] Voice 8: ecology concerns and aspects of recharge

[0:17:38] as well as geoscience points.

[0:17:42] And so I just listed a few examples there.

[0:17:46] and I'll get into most of them, the demand and availability

[0:17:52] Voice 8: side really it's like it's social science and it's and it's also engineering so engineering can be efficiency engineering, storage, demand management, community water systems, great water harvesting, some of the rainwater harvesting, and the social science part of it is like how to be conserved water, what sort of values around water.

[0:18:18] Voice 8: you know how like from how we teach our children how to use water um and and to also say social

[0:18:30] sciences density plans time to time like how many how many people are we going to put in a certain

[0:18:35] area and again this this part is kind of out of scope for this conversation so

[0:18:43] Voice 8: i'll move into

[0:18:44] Voice 8: um just a brief overview of this aquifer conceptualization project i will be

[0:18:51] Voice 8: talking more about this in the future i'm going to make a like a video webinar because there's a lot

[0:18:57] Voice 8: of uh image rich context in here we've also made a three-dimensional model of the island you can

[0:19:05] Voice 8: like spin around and make slices and and it's it's really neat for for this purpose of identifying

[0:19:15] my recharge groundwater recharge potential i have

[0:19:19] Voice 8: just extracted a few concepts from from this project

[0:19:33] Voice 9: i'm curious and smart

[0:19:36] Voice 2: but how

[0:19:38] Voice 5: do you figure out where is the water do we have

[0:19:57] And actually part of this yeah for consolidation project and also looking at creating a 3D model and and creating some other maps, the contractor that we hired to get any solutions,

[0:20:14] Voice 8: what they did is they took all the registered wells from from North Ender and put them in a container and put them in a container and put them in a container and put them in a container and put them in a container.

[0:20:20] and with the registered wells there's the driller's log

[0:20:22] Voice 8: and the driller's logs are so different from

[0:20:25] Voice 8: the 50s all the way to now and as the drillers are drilling they'll notice changes in the depth

[0:20:31] Voice 8: we'll say gray rock brown rock and water and what what the consultants did is they used machine

[0:20:38] learning like ai and took all of these well logs and were able to assign what the drillers were

[0:20:47] saying to actual geological terms and also

[0:20:51] Voice 8: through that they were able to identify for each well

[0:20:55] Voice 8: where the fracture depth was so where the water was coming in and so now we are able to

[0:21:02] try to model that in three dimensions to perhaps have a predictive tool on a landscape where the

[0:21:10] water is underground. I'll be talking more about how the tools we use to identify how much water

[0:21:19] falls from the sky from precipitation and enters the ground. So that's what this conversation is

[0:21:25] today and so I'll be going through some of the tools that we use to

[0:21:30] Voice 9: follow up. I can also wish.

[0:21:50] Voice 5: Eventually the log gets developed and has some gallons in it, 20, so it's stable right here.

[0:22:04] Voice 7: Yeah so that say 20 gallons a minute or 5 gallons

[0:22:08] Voice 8: a minute, that was from the driller just

[0:22:12] as they're drilling it they push air down the well and then the air lifts

[0:22:16] Voice 8: the water out and they do

[0:22:18] Voice 8: that to clean the well up after and wells on the island are just open holes in the ground,

[0:22:25] Voice 8: bedrocks just squish cheese everywhere there's no like liners in both ones and so then they would

[0:22:31] Voice 8: pump air down and that brushes the water up and so they would just stand there with a bucket

[0:22:36] Voice 8: and time it for a minute that's the gallons per minute which is a very crude way of determining

[0:22:43] Voice 8: for say for rezoning applications for a multi-family house that's going to be using a

[0:22:49] groundwater well that needs to be licensed for the province that would engage a pumping test

[0:22:56] where a pump is lowered down the well and it's pumped for one two or three days and there's

[0:23:05] data loggers or sensors in the well that every minute or every half minute reads the water level

[0:23:14] and then that data is then used by a hydrogeologist to determine sustainable

[0:23:20] And the sustainable yield has consistently been a fraction of what the drillers were

[0:23:27] calling the gallons per minute.

[0:23:29] And that's not the nature of the drillers manufacturing something, it's just the nature

[0:23:34] of the very basic method they were determining how much water is coming out of the well.

[0:23:40] well um that being said if if like there was a say

[0:23:46] Voice 8: if the 20 gallons it's possible that the well can

[0:23:52] Voice 8: be producing more or less and it's very difficult to know unless uh we're monitoring groundwater

[0:24:00] levels and so you don't always have to do a pumping test because a well is being used

[0:24:05] used on a daily basis, that use can be looked at with wells

[0:24:15] being monitored for groundwater level change,

[0:24:18] that it can be inferred how effective

[0:24:21] Voice 8: or efficient

[0:24:22] Voice 8: the well is.

[0:24:23] Voice 8: It usually takes a professional geologist to .

[0:24:28] Voice 5: I understand that.

[0:24:31] Voice 5: So what I'm understanding is saying

[0:24:33] Voice 5: is that there used to be methods of measuring water productivity

[0:24:40] Voice 5: So there are water productivity that are based on the geology or the drill record, and there

[0:24:46] Voice 5: are others that are based on the well monitoring, the actual well monitoring data for those

[0:24:51] Voice 5: wells that are monitored and extrapolated across the landscape.

[0:24:54] Voice 5: And those two different methodologies just have different outcomes sometimes.

[0:24:59] Voice 8: Yeah, and I can give a name to it.

[0:25:00] Voice 8: So the very robust, or not so robust, but the basic one, or is that just called a well

[0:25:05] Voice 8: yield?

[0:25:06] Voice 8: yeah might be a few hours or 10 minutes or something that the well's being pumped

[0:25:10] where a pumping test is by definition 12 hours or more usually for significant

[0:25:18] multi

[0:25:19] Voice 8: -family housing it's 72 hours it's kind of the basics so that's a constant rate test so

[0:25:26] Voice 8: what that's trying to do is is draw enough water from the aquifer that the the influence of that

[0:25:35] removal is mimicking like daily use or maximum case daily use but also it's drawing so much

[0:25:45] water from the aquifer that the response of the groundwater level can tell properties of the

[0:25:51] Voice 8: aquifer further away from the well where a well yield usually is just removing the water that's

[0:25:58] Voice 8: in the well and a little bit around the well but these long-term pumping tests are actually

[0:26:02] Voice 8: after for test growth say these well yields

[0:26:05] Voice 2: are well tests um

[0:26:12] Voice 9: yeah you talked about the um

[0:26:14] Voice 9: balancing the productivity and the demand um

[0:26:18] Voice 7: and this project that you're talking about today is

[0:26:21] Voice 5: about the recharge i'm just wondering how much information do you already have

[0:26:25] Voice 7: about the demand

[0:26:26] Voice 7: side how much do we know about how much is actually how much we're

[0:26:31] Voice 2: using um you know

[0:26:34] Voice 2: those towards managing that depends on the hardest thing and

[0:26:41] Voice 7: the water uses the

[0:26:44] is the unknown unknown and all of this we have proxies which have been strongly debated lately

[0:26:57] so a proxy for the groundwater availability work on this island was looking at the registered wells

[0:27:06] and assigning 625 liters per day is that a

[0:27:12] Voice 2: general median that don't most families use 625 and there's

[0:27:23] Voice 8: no monitoring the best data we have are from managed water systems they're monitoring their wells and monitoring the flows and all the monitoring people are doing that's very common and so that's we extrapolate that data as well but that's we have a better

[0:27:44] Voice 8: and ecosystem. Do

[0:27:54] Voice 8: you do monitoring of wells on Bender? Do we have wells that are actively

[0:28:00] Voice 8: being monitored to see where our levels are? Yeah yeah so so there's the provincial groundwater

[0:28:07] Voice 8: observation network and there's I think there's two wells on Bender that are actively monitored

[0:28:15] Voice 8: by the province and they have a dedicated staff person that looks at

[0:28:18] Voice 8: them um and the interesting

[0:28:22] The interesting thing is on Salt Spring Island, we undertook a community wells monitoring program, right, and I think it's been a really successful pilot.

[0:28:34] It's kind of mind-boggling to me if every island had 13 wells that they're monitoring and I'm the only one, because it's a lot of data.

[0:28:41] I have like three million data points over five years, which is pretty mind-boggling.

[0:28:47] but the interesting thing about that whole project uh that is that every well had its own story

[0:28:55] so you know i know the province like takes their provincial

[0:29:00] Voice 8: i'm so happy they're doing this it's a

[0:29:02] Voice 8: long-term record and and it has it has climate signatures like the pacific decadal oscillation

[0:29:08] Voice 8: pattern and i'm not speaking uh great to trust morrison but you can see these patterns these

[0:29:15] long-term climate patterns on these wells such

[0:29:17] Voice 8: a great resource my issue is they'll say because of

[0:29:21] Voice 8: this well this is the drought risk on on north pender which is like no like

[0:29:27] Voice 8: that and and wells

[0:29:28] Voice 8: that are down by the coast will only move a few centimeters per year like the non-pump ones that

[0:29:36] the monitoring wells

[0:29:37] Voice 8: but the wells on like up on the highland where the recharge is where the

[0:29:41] recharge moving through we have one on belcher mouth belcher on salt spring that can go up to

[0:29:46] 10 meters per year like i don't know how great and so looking at those two is really interesting

[0:29:52] because you can see the movement in the recharge and but

[0:29:56] Voice 8: i like there's some wells that i'm

[0:30:00] Voice 8: monitoring or they look exactly like a tide table where the tide rolls into fulford harbor

[0:30:06] Voice 8: pressures up the aquifer and comes back out pressure comes back down

[0:30:09] Voice 8: really unique so the story you know you just get more points in the story as you know more

[0:30:18] Voice 8: points in the constellation to make that would it be possible or something where they or as a

[0:30:29] Voice 8: local trust area to say that you're going to build a house on certain number of certain amount of rain catchment but you also have to sure yes so that way that the cheapest way to monitor well is from the start because it's just a hole in the ground and to put a data logger down through a drop pipe because the issue is with

[0:30:57] Voice 8: a if it's a non-useful and it's just an open if someone has an abandoned well and wants to monitor

[0:31:03] Voice 8: that's awesome it's so easy but if there's a pump down there there's there's wires and so you just

[0:31:10] can't drop down and so the like the retro and if they're in the old school style wells where it's

[0:31:16] a sanitary seal where everything's like hanging from the top those are almost like not possible

[0:31:21] to monitor but the majority of the viewer wells have the pitless adapter where like the there's a

[0:31:29] tube that comes

[0:31:29] Voice 8: out of the side of the well and the cap you just open it up

[0:31:32] Voice 8: those are a little bit better to retrofit but from the start and as a regulatory measure

[0:31:39] Voice 8: monitoring 100 that makes so much sense um the issue is what you do with the data

[0:31:44] Voice 8: and so the what what is kind of more the speak now is monitoring and recording rather monitoring

[0:31:56] Voice 8: recording so you can collect data for five years and instead of data loggers to record every

[0:32:05] day and you don't have to download it for years and that's just a really great record

[0:32:12] Voice 8: but there's also it's an emerging science there's more tools that have automated analysis and

[0:32:19] Voice 8: and just for you know it's a water level and so from year to year um it's almost like anecdotal

[0:32:27] Voice 8: for someone who's using the well especially a well operator who knows it like oh why in this

[0:32:31] summer our water level was five meters lower than this summer um so but for like uh water

[0:32:40] auditing for relief management uh 100 for non-investments i i'm very disappointed the

[0:32:47] province not requiring monitoring for the majority of their licenses that deserve it

[0:32:53] Voice 8: but what we're

[0:32:55] Voice 8: noticing especially private uh uh speth can attest to this on on galliano island for the

[0:33:02] Voice 8: resounding applications the monitoring was embraced through water management plans and

[0:33:08] Voice 8: And they're going to be monitoring those wells.

[0:33:15] Voice 8: Yeah, I'm like not even in my presentation.

[0:33:19] Voice 8: I might have to like, I mean, this is really, this is act for conceptualization, really.

[0:33:25] Voice 8: It's like how, this science is so hard.

[0:33:31] It's harder than physics because at least you can look at the stars.

[0:33:35] as we can and just one

[0:33:39] Voice 8: other like cabinet on my science and i say this with a heavy heart that

[0:33:47] Voice 8: our errors are on the scale of bankages so how i say this like you go to the grocery store and

[0:33:54] Voice 8: grab a bag and go over the organic almonds and just pull that thing for about four seconds

[0:33:58] and then go to the cashier and

[0:34:01] Voice 8: say put it down and say i don't know it's 10 grams or 10 kilograms

[0:34:05] Voice 8: like that that's the scale of error and that's just but but this the scales are shifted really

[0:34:13] Voice 8: low like and then 10 to the minus six but there's magnitudes of error that's why conceptualization

[0:34:22] Voice 8: makes a lot so what is an out for i'll just say the definition it's a subterranean geologic unit

[0:34:30] Voice 8: it can store and transmit water but this is the kicker and useful quantities for domestic

[0:34:36] industrial ecologically so most rocks can store water but

[0:34:40] Voice 7: if you can extract it is what makes it

[0:34:44] Voice 7: it's a quick question on that so when you were talking about the bullford harbor

[0:34:47] Voice 7: example how does that fit in with that that can't keep part of the water

[0:34:56] Voice 7: Yeah, I mean that's a really great question. So again, after conceptualization, this is a great

[0:35:03] Voice 8: talking point. The movement of water through fracture, through the ground, is like make like

[0:35:10] Voice 8: maximum 100 meters per year. So it's very slow, like that would be a very fast effort. Like the

[0:35:18] Voice 8: Duncan aquifer is like maybe close to 200. Out here it's probably a particle of one.

[0:35:27] The Fulford thing, like I said, it looked like a tide table because it's pressure.

[0:35:31] So this whole thing is like a hydraulic system. So pressure that's felt say on one part of the

[0:35:39] aquifer can be felt on the other part of the aquifer. I want to figure out the speed. It could be

[0:35:46] instantaneous or the speed of light and speed of sound i don't know like that's the

[0:35:52] author idea of mine but but the the transfer of the

[0:35:56] Voice 8: volume is quite slow so that when the

[0:35:58] Voice 8: tides are rolling in and out like that all it's doing is just pushing on the after back and forth

[0:36:03] Voice 8: but the exchange of water is variable so uh for determining aquifers we also looked at

[0:36:22] geological formation so

[0:36:24] Voice 8: this is a modern geological map of north pender um there's been a lot of work

[0:36:30] Voice 8: on pender for a long time i'm sure most of you have heard of dr henderson james henderson who

[0:36:37] Voice 8: did a lot of the fundamental work on this island um and so we uh undertook some more geological

[0:36:45] Voice 8: mapping and there's there's maps everywhere so i'm not going to go on the maps if you want to

[0:36:50] top that's great um but just to touch on this this is a cross-section so it's sliced through the earth

[0:36:57] we're eating the pender pie here and and these are wells and just for example this is sea level

[0:37:04] so the majority of wells in pender especially in the low-lying areas are much below sea level

[0:37:08] but but that's fine because the rock underneath pender is saturated

[0:37:14] Voice 8: with fresh water

[0:37:16] Voice 8: but the reason why i wanted to bring this up is that i was talking about the ai machine learning

[0:37:19] Voice 8: wells so we know where the fractures are where where the water is actually coming into the well

[0:37:26] Voice 8: and so what we're hoping to do in a three-dimensional space is to start mapping the

[0:37:31] Voice 8: planes of which these fractures are and so we can in the future hopefully like if someone wants to

[0:37:39] Voice 8: drill a well here it's like well we have a predictive fracture at 340 feet or something

[0:37:44] Voice 8: like that so keep drilling if you have a dry hole another use for this is on salt spring island we

[0:37:51] have a really bad arsenic

[0:37:53] Voice 8: problem so if there's a certain fracture that has arsenic perhaps we can

[0:37:58] Voice 8: predict where that's going to come and you can mitigate that by stealing off that fracture

[0:38:02] Voice 8: to drill deeper there's a wells map here so this is the density of of the well so you can see the

[0:38:10] Voice 8: the concentration of wells on pender and and these are concentrations like density of how many wells are in a kilometer and so the real dark stuff is like 80 to 100 miles per kilometer and which is relatively speaking the province extremely dense like in most places of the province where there's this much density of properties there are community systems.

[0:38:37] Voice 8: systems um with the exception of like middle bay and the highlands but this is that's really high

[0:38:51] Voice 8: i'm gonna not take any more questions

[0:38:58] Voice 8: and so we're just gonna roll into the groundwater mapping project and and like i said this was a

[0:39:06] Voice 8: project that went through a proper procurement process through that was facilitated by uh

[0:39:13] ministry of municipal affairs and um we had an external member as a geologist from the

[0:39:21] province that selected uh gw solutions from

[0:39:24] Voice 8: a slate of applicants or performance

[0:39:30] Voice 8: so simply put this is a uh cross-section of bowen so this is from our waterscape series that was

[0:39:37] Voice 8: from the 90s just love these types of dyer so cute um and so this just shows that the water falls

[0:39:47] on the hills and it doesn't flow like this but but overall the concept is true the recharge is

[0:39:56] usually in the highlands and that recharge moves through the land and integrates or interacts with

[0:40:03] surface water so a lot of surface water is groundwater fed um and wetlands there's springs

[0:40:09] that's groundwater and of course there's wells there and um i i can't explain saltwater intrusion

[0:40:19] i won't do this time but but if you want to ask me later that's a concept

[0:40:23] Voice 8: one thing i really like

[0:40:25] Voice 8: about this is just it really reminds me of roly and and so these lakes are super special and not

[0:40:33] because they're ecological value but because they're a local discharge area discharge means

[0:40:39] groundwater that's coming out of the ground into the landscape and

[0:40:43] Voice 8: so it collects water so

[0:40:45] Voice 8: so you just like picture roll lake in your in your head right now like the water is coming from from

[0:40:53] Voice 8: the hillside and that sun is getting into the ground but then springing out making those

[0:40:57] Voice 8: beautiful wetlands around grow lake and that water has residency time there because the ecosystem is

[0:41:03] holding it but also there's a little face in there and

[0:41:07] Voice 8: that water has permanency right last summer

[0:41:10] and what's happening is that water is leaking into the ground and and it's consistently providing

[0:41:18] not only the volume of water into the aquifer but it's providing the pressure because water

[0:41:26] has been compressible so having this incompressible body sitting on on the surface

[0:41:32] is providing

[0:41:33] Voice 8: consistent pressure pressuring up this groundwater level if you remove the lake

[0:41:38] Voice 8: that pressure goes away and this groundwater level drops and so these these high level or high

[0:41:45] Voice 8: elevation lakes and wetlands are are the most important ecosystems with respected groundwater

[0:41:52] Voice 8: sorry

[0:41:53] Voice 5: can i just make it oh

[0:41:55] Voice 8: yeah i

[0:41:55] Voice 5: can't i can't not say it garden pond thank you yeah okay

[0:42:15] Voice 8: So anyway, so, like, in all due respect to that always seems like it's a negative, it's

[0:42:27] Voice 8: it's very positive in all due respect to dr henderson's work he was one of the first

[0:42:35] and he comes from a geophysical background which is really interesting and same with me i've worked

[0:42:40] in geophysics too which we have a kinship there but he was really concerned about the ecosystem's

[0:42:45] role and ecosystem's approach to groundwater management and largely that's been left out

[0:42:53] of the picture with looking at groundwater recharge and looking at groundwater availability

[0:42:58] the ecosystem was just like basically it was uh generalized to terrain so you got beach you got

[0:43:07] forest you got cliff and and that's just not helpful so

[0:43:12] Voice 8: what we did with this project is

[0:43:14] Voice 8: we actually look at every individual tree almost using the vegetation resource inventory from the

[0:43:22] Voice 8: province we looked at how the ecosystems intercept the water so when the rain's coming down how much

[0:43:30] Voice 8: gets caught in the canopy how much moves through the trees like through stem runoff and i had some

[0:43:37] Voice 8: very smart co-op students in the graduate student work and they created a python model and it was

[0:43:45] Voice 8: sauce and I'll talk about that but it's really exciting on on on thinking about how how the

[0:43:56] Voice 8: ecosystem plays a role in how much precipitation gets into the ground I have a really cool photo

[0:44:02] Voice 8: and I lament that I didn't put it on here standing over top of a sword fern and if you look at sword

[0:44:08] Voice 8: ferns they're funnels so they just capture water through stem and leaf runoff just gets funneled

[0:44:15] Voice 8: through the rezone right into the ground really amazing so just to get complicated i'm not going

[0:44:23] Voice 8: to call this this is our recharge model so we did a bunch of stuff with the vegetation

[0:44:30] Voice 8: did a bunch of stuff with the geology and um what it boils down to is looking at

[0:44:38] Voice 8: slope so the terrain how steep the land is what side it's facing towards the sun

[0:44:45] Voice 8: and and that's really important we used lidar data which is just got updated and lidar data is very

[0:44:52] Voice 8: high resolution digital elevation of the island uh we have a water retention uh potential so all

[0:44:59] Voice 8: these things are on posters these four except for precipitation because the precipitation on

[0:45:05] north bender doesn't change too drastically on uh gallianos it's a very significant difference

[0:45:12] between the north and the

[0:45:13] Voice 8: south and galleon it brings way more galleon than it does on stern

[0:45:17] Voice 8: so like the distribution of precipitation across the southern gulf islands is not the same

[0:45:22] Voice 8: on salt spring island there's a very significant difference between the

[0:45:27] Voice 8: western side and the eastern side because there's mountains and it comes out so but on i i didn't

[0:45:34] bring it up here because it's not a huge change but well with the modeling

[0:45:39] Voice 8: and and this is like

[0:45:41] Voice 8: a geological thing looking at liniments and liniments are either geological fractures or like

[0:45:47] Voice 8: gullies and you know like we all know i'm talking about landscape we have just like steep wall

[0:45:52] Voice 8: things and those are really important for groundwater recharge because water will roll

[0:45:58] off off the hill slope or through the shallow soils and interact with these portals to the

[0:46:07] the ground really and and those fractures can go

[0:46:10] Voice 8: several hundreds of meters kilometers down

[0:46:14] Voice 8: into the ground transporting water into into the ground so we have uh there's a liniment snap back

[0:46:22] Voice 8: there and they're very small features but they're they're so significant for our recharge well

[0:46:29] Voice 5: we have more consistent precipitation across fender there the crd maps i think it was the

[0:46:38] Voice 5: and the climate change forecasting map showed shifts in precipitation oh

[0:46:42] Voice 8: yeah this is really

[0:46:43] Voice 8: cool so the crd doesn't have uh magical climate scientists well they might but all that data comes

[0:46:49] Voice 8: from the pacific climate impacts consortium from ubit and they have done downscale models of global

[0:46:57] Voice 8: models for bc specifically then for the coast region and it's so amazing like on pender and on

[0:47:05] Voice 8: on Salt Spring Island the the the rainiest day of the year is going to is predicted to

[0:47:14] Voice 8: increase 25 percent in the next 50 years and there's some areas of the capital regional

[0:47:21] district where the rainiest day of the year is going to be 50 percent of the annual precipitation

[0:47:28] so so I mean in a nutshell there's that's the problem I mean I could walk out right now call

[0:47:35] that day uh

[0:47:36] Voice 8: we're getting a lot more rain when the aquifers are completely full and it's just

[0:47:41] it's concrete there's just water's incompressible there's no way else for that water to get in the

[0:47:46] ground uh except for our friends who are

[0:47:49] Voice 8: capturing water and trying to create retention and that's so

[0:47:53] Voice 8: that's really important but

[0:47:55] Voice 5: then in summer my understanding was that that's the case in winter

[0:47:58] Voice 5: and it's the opposite in summer where we're getting hotter and drier or something yeah

[0:48:02] Voice 8: so so

[0:48:04] Voice 8: um the way to qualify that is to say what we just said about the rainy state of the year but

[0:48:10] it's the annual precipitation

[0:48:13] Voice 8: is not changing

[0:48:14] Voice 2: so

[0:48:15] Voice 8: if we get we've got a meter rain a

[0:48:17] Voice 8: year it's going

[0:48:18] Voice 8: to it's a metering now meter rain in 2080 but we're getting 75 of that in two months

[0:48:27] and

[0:48:28] Voice 8: then to add complexity to that we're getting way more snow and and i'm still working this out

[0:48:34] Voice 8: so this is not gospel or even a study but correlating snowfalls in south spring island

[0:48:41] Voice 8: to the groundwater wells monitoring all the groundwater wells were dropping during snow

[0:48:46] Voice 8: so the snow was disrupting the the recharge which kind of makes sense so so that's another issue so

[0:48:56] Voice 8: we have a lot of snow say over a month period like i lived at 600 meters elevation so we had i would

[0:49:04] Voice 8: have snow for two months there in the spring so the snow is sitting there the water equivalent

[0:49:11] Voice 8: is huge it's on the surface it's not going to the ground and then we get a hot week and and all that

[0:49:17] water is then brushed off rather than you know having a cute west coast rainy days where it's

[0:49:23] just soaking in and it's chill recharge

[0:49:26] Voice 1: yeah

[0:49:28] Voice 8: um i think i just like the last two years were

[0:49:31] Voice 8: really interesting like does that we found for when we go into our growth season like if you

[0:49:35] Voice 8: look at

[0:49:36] Voice 1: a year two years ago it was kind of people

[0:49:38] Voice 8: which we had no barely any rain last year it was

[0:49:42] Voice 8: june we got to bring all the way to june you know so they're not really as good as that but you know

[0:49:47] Voice 8: it's not is that something

[0:49:48] Voice 2: that's looked at uh

[0:49:49] Voice 8: yeah well no you're right it's hard for this

[0:49:52] Voice 8: the unpredictability it is it's like the we are trying to look at unknowns right that's what

[0:49:59] Voice 8: client modeling is trying to do right but it's like the unknown unknowns these seasonality

[0:50:05] one-offs right and but i would suggest that

[0:50:09] Voice 8: the fact that we had wildfire season again

[0:50:12] Voice 8: historic wildfire season against historical flooding season is is they just seem like they're

[0:50:21] Voice 8: to say that they're not related. And one concern that I have is that there is this phenomenon

[0:50:34] Voice 8: called the Pacific Decadal Oscillation Pattern, which means that over decades of time,

[0:50:39] Voice 8: you can get really wet decades and really dry decades. And correct me if I'm wrong,

[0:50:44] Voice 8: that we're moving into a more negative colder wetter period and during that cold weather

[0:50:52] Voice 8: period if we're doing a lot of planning and a lot of development like what is going to happen when

[0:50:57] Voice 8: we move into a more drier period and

[0:51:01] Voice 5: that's one of the reasons why we use climate data because

[0:51:03] Voice 5: it averages across 30 years so it actually sort of brushes that into like an average

[0:51:14] Voice 8: uh so we talked about this how much is the rain and how much so i kind of made a little riddle

[0:51:20] Voice 8: here how how much rain does not make it to ground how much stays around so

[0:51:28] Voice 8: so um we were we were pretty good in in methodologies of the past and

[0:51:34] Voice 8: on figuring out how much stays around so how much runoff there is how much

[0:51:39] Voice 8: surplus, how much water flushes off, but we weren't really too confident on how much water

[0:51:45] Voice 8: actually makes it to ground.

[0:51:47] Voice 8: And so we merged those together into this water retention potential classification and

[0:51:54] of course you can see the lakes have water in some wetlands, I'm sure, you know, way

[0:52:00] better than I can just look

[0:52:01] Voice 8: at these things.

[0:52:02] Voice 8: So the light color is really low retention or really high evapotranspiration.

[0:52:08] So open fields will just take water to pump it right back into the atmosphere.

[0:52:14] But that's not the case here, because I imagine you're saying

[0:52:17] Voice 8: this is a forest area.

[0:52:19] Voice 8: But that's because this is a very young forest, and it's really intercepting water rain.

[0:52:24] So densely packed, second-growth forests are not the best for recharge.

[0:52:32] charge a well-managed forest with sustainable forestry is

[0:52:39] Voice 8: the best thing for force or for

[0:52:42] Voice 8: recharge clear cuts are absolutely

[0:52:44] Voice 7: um

[0:52:47] Voice 5: there's a lot that's horrible that was um almost every

[0:52:55] Voice 5: treatment now eight years so every time i go in there no matter what the season i notice um

[0:53:04] Voice 5: it's like a faucet of water just coming out of the barrel it was shale removed and all kinds of

[0:53:11] Voice 5: stuff will happen it doesn't look good to me but i feel like we should catch this water or something

[0:53:19] Voice 5: like is that natural or will it be okay and i shouldn't worry uh

[0:53:24] Voice 8: well what was catching water

[0:53:26] Voice 8: before with trees so uh trees act as pumps and also if there's some landmarks they could have

[0:53:35] Voice 8: cut into a fracture and it's just an afterspray. But trees will have just pumps and bring water

[0:53:41] Voice 8: into to them to drink they're very opportunistic that way. But the one thing that's lost in clear

[0:53:49] cutting that's why I say it's the worst is that soils are

[0:53:52] Voice 8: degraded and the soils are a sponge

[0:53:55] Voice 8: actually right so thirsty forests make for healthy soil so take away the thirsty forest

[0:54:05] Voice 8: the healthy soils go away and soil is really an amazing thing it's this organic

[0:54:10] matter that's been like basically grown for hundreds of thousands of years and

[0:54:19] and it can just be degraded just to so the sands that provide very a less ecological function

[0:54:28] and so that water your spring that was springing out was either being retained by

[0:54:33] Voice 8: the forest or

[0:54:34] Voice 8: actually used by the trees um and and this is why i say it's back to recharge because

[0:54:43] i see time again i spend a lot of time in the cowichan valley and looking at clear cuts there

[0:54:48] there. And what happens is that the water does spring out, it finds a rill, it starts

[0:54:53] eroding that rill, and it creates these very sediment-laden streams that go into

[0:55:00] Voice 8: bigger

[0:55:01] Voice 8: streams and it just improves the water on the landscape, the retention goes down.

[0:55:11] Voice 9: Okay, so

[0:55:12] Voice 8: one cool thing, another, you have some really good segues for me, thank you.

[0:55:16] Voice 8: This was from before, what tools are we using? So we actually use satellite data, this is

[0:55:20] Voice 8: called from the Sentinel data and what we did was we looked at areas on the landscape that

[0:55:28] that are potentially

[0:55:29] Voice 8: recharging and which means water is going down into the ground and

[0:55:34] Voice 8: areas where it's discharging where the water is coming out of the ground into the landscape like

[0:55:40] Voice 8: say into a wetland or into a low-lying area and the reason why this is important is because

[0:55:46] Voice 8: because from the methodology of looking if the ground can recharge water we that that can happen

[0:55:54] anywhere right it's it's it's very likely that except if it's like a pavement that water won't

[0:56:01] go into the ground

[0:56:02] Voice 8: but there's the dynamics of the of the like say the mountains if you will

[0:56:07] Voice 8: tall hills that are moving that water around and that's very difficult to understand because if

[0:56:13] Voice 8: it's a the only way we can do it with hydrogeology is doing these very difficult models it takes like

[0:56:19] Voice 8: months to run a model for north bender and i have like 15 islands i'm looking at so that's no go but

[0:56:25] Voice 8: what this does is the satellite data is that it gives us an idea of vegetation and we know which

[0:56:31] vegetation is water loving and discharge areas i mean know which vegetation is in recharge areas

[0:56:37] And so it's very exciting. So we can start looking

[0:56:41] Voice 8: at the areas of discharge are the yellow.

[0:56:44] Voice 8: And so this works in the model to understand the areas of the island that has the most amount of recharge and is actually significant.

[0:56:54] Voice 8: It's real recharge. One thing I like about this graph is that this is a reverse to all the watersheds on, say, Vancouver Island.

[0:57:05] Voice 8: the it's usually that there's a very small concentrated area of recharge and the rest

[0:57:12] Voice 8: is discharged like the englishman river you have recharge at the top and that water's just going

[0:57:16] Voice 8: out everywhere as you go down so the the one take home that i like about this graph is that

[0:57:24] like and dr morrison can can can correct me if i'm wrong but these ecosystems are like on a fine

[0:57:33] in line right now we're like forests are stressed and and look at all of the recharge in the area

[0:57:43] and and all this recharge is supporting these very small discharge areas

[0:57:49] Voice 8: so what i'm trying

[0:57:50] Voice 8: to say there is that the very thirsty forest they need all of this recharge to support a very

[0:57:56] Voice 8: very small area of the ecosystem.

[0:57:59] Voice 8: The recharge is dominating on the island.

[0:58:02] Voice 8: And I find that really interesting.

[0:58:05] Voice 8: I mean, there's another consideration,

[0:58:07] Voice 8: discharges everywhere on the coast.

[0:58:10] Voice 8: So it's been my career goal

[0:58:13] Voice 8: to relate groundwater recharge to the orca.

[0:58:18] Voice 8: But it's true because what's happening

[0:58:20] Voice 8: is as water moves through the ground

[0:58:22] Voice 8: and gets pressured and it's discharging out into the ocean,

[0:58:25] Voice 8: it's carrying nutrient it's carrying uh it's freshening water which is a critical habitat for

[0:58:32] Voice 8: um for all kinds of plant life i'm noticing that the eelgrass really likes areas where the water

[0:58:38] Voice 8: is coming out of streams and discharge areas which is like one of our keystone plant species

[0:58:45] Voice 8: so um can

[0:58:48] Voice 5: i just ask a question yeah where it's depicting high discharge the yellow or the green

[0:58:53] Voice 5: yellow is that related to elevation i did i miss that but that means it's higher elevation for the

[0:58:58] Voice 5: discharge yeah

[0:58:59] Voice 8: and that was when this was an experiment this was like our like our last

[0:59:04] like let's use this cool satellite data and this is just solely based on on the signature of the

[0:59:13] the plants and we looked at the the terrain and we looked at our other uh methods

[0:59:23] Voice 8: on how well this

[0:59:24] Voice 8: lined up it's like oh yeah that that works you know and and um we didn't falsely color the lakes

[0:59:31] or anything like that um and the cool thing is is that bro lake yes coming back to our

[0:59:37] conceptualization is is white one of the only white periods because it's only white section

[0:59:42] because it's a transitional side so so that you know it's neither discharge or recharge

[0:59:48] Voice 8: and and that's that was really exciting of course like the lakes are discharge areas

[0:59:54] Voice 5: so just to be clear about discharge is not in this situation directly

[1:00:01] Voice 8: Yeah, it's not, but it kind of falls in line with that. So, of course, like, everyone's supposed to the place where I imagine.

[1:00:16] Yeah, I'm

[1:00:22] Voice 8: learning my geography. Okay, so I'm almost there because we're actually making good time.

[1:00:33] Voice 8: Because I want to invite my colleague, Nerissa, in a short second.

[1:00:37] So from all this

[1:00:38] Voice 8: stuff, and there's boatloads of other data that went into this, we got

[1:00:44] Voice 8: this raw data, this groundwater potential raw data from GW Solutions.

[1:00:51] Voice 8: Of course, I was heavily involved in the project, but it was their product.

[1:00:56] Voice 8: And they handed this over and said, okay, good, there you go, our contract's done.

[1:01:01] Voice 8: and so then it's now our job to figure out how to use this in planning because that's

[1:01:07] Voice 8: you know that's why we're doing it um and so this is pretty complex data like uh the potential was

[1:01:15] Voice 8: from zero to one maybe percentage from zero percent to 100 meaning that 100 of the precipitation that

[1:01:25] Voice 8: falls down is going into the ground all the way down to there's there's no precipitation going

[1:01:30] Voice 8: to the ground and and there's some caveats there like there's a like like rolling here showing that

[1:01:38] it's

[1:01:38] Voice 8: not going to the ground because it's a transition um so that made sense there's some

[1:01:44] Voice 8: very steep slopes where it's water just hitting running off um we had to do something with this

[1:01:51] and and so i i made a methodology where

[1:01:55] Voice 8: i i took i took the the histogram or the distribution

[1:02:02] of this from zero to one

[1:02:04] Voice 8: and did a standard deviation statistical analysis um and and from

[1:02:11] Voice 8: the center deviation i determined what was very low low moderate high and very high reach and then

[1:02:19] Voice 8: this is just showing how i did it in a mapping context so stuff

[1:02:28] Voice 8: And then from that stuff, I was able to classify that the recharge, and I should say the recharge

[1:02:39] Voice 8: was the raw data we got from GW Solutions was for every 20 by 20 meter grid cell on

[1:02:47] Voice 8: the island, we had a potential of how much water would go there.

[1:02:51] Voice 8: So it's very like high resolution data.

[1:02:54] Voice 8: And so that's impossible for planning. So this was our first go at averaging or at least collating some of that data.

[1:03:08] Voice 8: So the dark blue is very high. This like nice sky blue here is high.

[1:03:16] Voice 8: This steel gray is moderate and the white is low and very low.

[1:03:23] Voice 8: and and so i i oh yeah yeah

[1:03:30] Voice 8: yeah i

[1:03:31] Voice 5: want to see if i can put that i need to make sure i can put that

[1:03:33] Voice 5: into my own words if i can

[1:03:35] Voice 8: do you want to let

[1:03:36] Voice 5: me try right there so

[1:03:39] Voice 5: if it's blue it's an area that

[1:03:44] Voice 5: is contributing to groundwater and if it's white it's an area that's drawing out or water is

[1:03:52] Voice 5: is coming out from surface maybe through plant evaporation or whatever and if it's dark blue

[1:03:59] Voice 5: it's really contributing yeah okay and

[1:04:03] Voice 8: so uh what i did from that is is i i omitted the very low

[1:04:11] Voice 8: low and moderate and resulted in what we're calling critical aquifer recharge areas which

[1:04:21] Voice 8: is just the high and very high and i just want to just say something here uh like there's these

[1:04:31] Voice 8: black lines here and maybe your eyes are drawing to them so there's like makes a region here a

[1:04:38] Voice 8: region there region there region here the rural lake region one here one there and then this

[1:04:45] Voice 8: little sliver here those are what we're considering ground water regions and actually these were

[1:04:51] Voice 8: delineated by dr henderson and we made a few adjustments to them the names are awful we should

[1:04:56] Voice 8: go through a naming process fun um topic but this is kind of will will organize um how much how we

[1:05:09] Voice 8: can understand how much water is available um because essentially these groundwater regions

[1:05:15] Voice 8: are sharing the same recharge so this groundwater region is likely not sharing recharge with this

[1:05:23] Voice 8: groundwater feature um these might be related but since there's a significant topography in here

[1:05:32] Voice 8: water will go this way water will go this way so then these regions like that's why

[1:05:38] Voice 8: these regions are important in this context because the regions are sharing groundwater

[1:05:42] Voice 8: water and rolling is a water shed so they're they're related but on a pender there's um

[1:05:56] dozens of watersheds right like there's some big

[1:06:01] Voice 8: ones i imagine name off the creeks and think of

[1:06:07] Voice 8: the watershed but there's like like dozens of little tiny watersheds we call them non-basin

[1:06:13] Voice 8: months and the interesting thing about groundwater is that like a watershed is very defined by its

[1:06:21] Voice 8: topography right just physically water rolls downhill and in groundwater it's the same thing

[1:06:28] but what happens is that if the hills like this the groundwater goes down it's like on this plane

[1:06:34] so there can

[1:06:36] Voice 8: be groundwater recharge that can transcend watershed boundaries quite easily the

[1:06:41] Voice 8: big ones no but the smaller ones yeah and and they can also be seasonally dependent too because if um

[1:06:49] Voice 8: if there's a stream that's running a stream that's not that groundwater might find its

[1:06:54] Voice 8: way to one stream another to see that undamaged where there's the groundwater will actually

[1:07:01] Voice 8: reverse flow depending on the season just from the height of the creek

[1:07:05] Voice 8: and we know that from the 3D modeling that I mentioned earlier that's the only reason why we

[1:07:12] Voice 8: know that yeah thank you for that question uh so so the groundwater regions are based on

[1:07:19] Voice 8: topography which is watersheds but also geology concentrations of well zones what we really try

[1:07:25] Voice 8: to get at are like if I were to rename it and be like recharge neighborhoods like all your

[1:07:30] Voice 8: neighbors are sharing that same recharge give or take so um so

[1:07:37] Voice 5: can i have oh yeah

[1:07:39] Voice 5: so one other

[1:07:40] Voice 5: clarification made on that so we might be sharing the same recharge but that doesn't necessarily

[1:07:46] Voice 5: mean the ground water or the same layer of rock it's true because like like in the situation that

[1:07:51] Voice 5: we're talking about like you could

[1:07:53] Voice 1: have your well in a

[1:07:54] Voice 5: different depth and so you could be drawing

[1:07:56] Voice 5: from a different kind of pool of water on your ground per se depending what the layer of rock

[1:08:00] Voice 5: So like, but the water coming in at the surface is still like, yeah, so

[1:08:06] Voice 8: yeah and again there's a, there's this balance of how much water, the volume and the pressure that that and also I held myself back from not bringing the 3D model and having a 3D model, like kind of demo because I just get lost in it.

[1:08:25] Voice 8: The cool thing with our new model is that you can slice it this way, and it's really interesting to see the rock layers change because they're all like this.

[1:08:34] And so when you slice it, it

[1:08:36] Voice 8: brings to mind why a neighbor can drill a well and not hit anything, and another neighbor can drill and hit that fracture.

[1:08:47] Voice 8: So the fracture is going like this.

[1:08:50] Voice 8: It's

[1:08:50] Voice 2: kind of like the in-house preview, right?

[1:08:52] Voice 8: Yeah, I mean, that's a good one.

[1:08:56] explain it. Also, another thing that we that we get

[1:09:00] Voice 8: hung up on is like my well is 120 feet, my well is 240 feet, but the wells can be 100 feet of elevation difference. So I always convert to groundwater

[1:09:16] depth to groundwater in meters above sea level. And there's a real cool study that we did,

[1:09:23] it should be somewhere it's the depth of water map yeah it's back here um it's really neat it's like

[1:09:31] that that actually shows how deep water is and it's amazing on how

[1:09:37] Voice 8: much groundwater is below sea

[1:09:39] Voice 8: level here okay so let's keep going um so from from the from all this this is the resultant

[1:09:50] Voice 8: from all from from the recharge mapping and and uh so i like i said the the blue here

[1:10:01] Voice 8: really nice blue uh is is the high and the very high recharge that was determined from this whole

[1:10:15] Voice 8: project with

[1:10:17] Voice 2: a little

[1:10:18] Voice 8: bit of smoothing i'll have to admit because the data is so like blocky that

[1:10:24] Voice 8: it didn't make sense so that's why underneath this it doesn't look that great on the screen or even

[1:10:31] Voice 8: print but this is the digital elevation model underneath it that's like the grays and stuff

[1:10:35] Voice 8: and so uh by going through that and refining

[1:10:39] Voice 7: a little bit

[1:10:39] Voice 8: more um it the buffering is not that

[1:10:44] Voice 8: significant say or the smoothing i should say so this is determinant of the most important recharge

[1:10:52] Voice 8: recharge areas on there that's that's that's the final conclusion from the study um it can

[1:11:00] Voice 8: obviously be reviewed and argued um and our methodology can be contested of course uh but

[1:11:08] Voice 8: that's this is where we're at a lot of recharge maps like this so uh oh Galiano Island don't see

[1:11:20] Voice 8: that it's the only mistake so this is where i'm going to uh call my colleague narissa to

[1:11:31] Voice 8: talk about how this recharge mapping uh can be used in uh in land use planning um i would say

[1:11:44] like to be fair something that's that's missing from the implementation of this is the education

[1:11:51] Voice 8: piece on what recharge action and I think everyone will agree with me that you know if we didn't have

[1:11:59] Voice 8: voluntary compliance across the outage trust area this whole thing fails and so it's really

[1:12:04] Voice 8: like up to the community to protect recharge and you know on the planning side we're going to

[1:12:11] Voice 8: investigate but but I think the more that we increase water literacy ground groundwater

[1:12:18] Voice 8: resources of groundwater and recharge means to ecosystems and and that we are sharing the water

[1:12:26] Voice 8: like we don't live on bathtubs where we get this magical pipe from the sky that puts water right

[1:12:33] Voice 8: into our into our well the water comes from afar and so and that's a really important

[1:12:41] Voice 8: concept and i'm a hydrogeologist and it's difficult for me to get my head around

[1:12:45] Voice 8: i appreciate your attention and your interest and uh i'll just be sitting here beside Marissa

[1:12:55] Voice 8: as Marissa goes through this and talk more about planning yeah any questions

[1:13:02] Voice 8: yeah when we hold on also we do have time after to ask some more questions also we can sort of

[1:13:11] schedule some time for um just some informal after presentation you know we can see how the

[1:13:17] trustees feel about timing because we've now added the led discussion so so yeah before i said i i

[1:13:25] thought maybe we should take a couple minutes uh

[1:13:27] Voice 7: take a little stretch right so if you want to

[1:13:32] Voice 7: break let's

[1:13:33] Voice 2: take five minutes yeah that's a good five minute break

[1:13:45] Voice 2: Oh yeah,

[1:13:47] Voice 7: so 20 hours.

[1:18:23] Voice 2: yeah yeah there's other ways to do it

[1:18:42] Voice 7: it's great science

[1:18:45] Voice 7: it's great yeah and it is it's i mean i i've had the fortune of being able to work with

[1:18:54] Voice 7: i'm not a scientist

[1:18:56] Voice 2: and

[1:18:58] Voice 7: uh i i i learned something new every time

[1:19:13] So, you can tell we've been working together

[1:19:17] Voice 2: for a while now, very closely because of adoption.

[1:19:23] Voice 7: So, so yeah, so I'm, so I'm a planner, I work.

[1:19:29] Voice 7: i'm actually planning for main island and um i'm also a member of the regional planning team so

[1:19:35] Voice 7: that the island's trust is maybe to a different kind of model where we've got island planners

[1:19:39] Voice 7: and we've also got a team of um of planners uh senior planners that do um like project

[1:19:48] Voice 7: terrible project work so this i think this model has been sort of tested with our the work that

[1:19:54] Voice 7: we've been doing on the groundwater stuff so the idea is that you're building expertise from the

[1:19:58] Voice 7: organization on specific things um and and then it also gets um it also gets um kind of the

[1:20:05] Voice 7: opportunity to focus on a topic so i'm actually going to be um moving from groundwater to uh to

[1:20:13] housing um um that probably will pick up this sort of build this

[1:20:18] Voice 7: expertise like to help the

[1:20:22] Voice 7: So, um, so yeah, you know, what, as a plan, we look at all this great stuff. And then we have to figure out like, what, like, what are the tools that we actually have to do something on the ground. And I think

[1:20:34] Voice 5: I was just,

[1:20:34] Voice 7: you know, the sort of a hierarchy of essentially policies and directions.

[1:20:44] Voice 7: The policy statement is another sort of higher level trust, trust wide statement of direction and so you know things that happen underneath that the local trust level need to speak to the policy statement, the official community plan is sort of like the guidance document

[1:21:06] Voice 7: make us aware of the of the uh of the community and then and then our the land use pilot is much

[1:21:12] Voice 7: more specific how do you how things can actually happen on the ground um and then there are things

[1:21:21] like community education is what we're doing today um and agency coordination so that's extremely

[1:21:29] important um we live in a very interesting jurisdictional um situation um and are very

[1:21:37] Voice 7: reliant on uh you know regional districts and information um and then of course the science

[1:21:46] Voice 7: monitoring the kind of stuff um

[1:21:49] Voice 9: so

[1:21:50] Voice 7: what's happened so far we did actually have we started this

[1:21:54] Voice 7: project in like 2020 even just the beginnings of the project in 2021 um we had a um we did have a

[1:22:03] we did our first community uh meeting to

[1:22:07] Voice 7: sort of introduce the ideas and what the kinds of

[1:22:11] Voice 7: information that was coming out of the mapping that was done, that was the very first step,

[1:22:14] Voice 7: mapping was done for all of the sub-VL pilots. And so out of that, the work that William has done,

[1:22:24] Voice 7: and I'll show you what we're doing with that, that map, that final map of the critical

[1:22:32] Voice 7: recharge areas, how we're using that to inform a potential development permit area,

[1:22:39] Voice 7: and you know the development permit area i'll get into a little bit more it's uh it's not about um

[1:22:45] Voice 7: preventing development in the areas where it may cover it's just about guiding that development so

[1:22:51] Voice 7: that we're ensuring that we protect as as much of that recharge area that might be that's where the

[1:23:05] the development is located it's developed

[1:23:08] Voice 7: located in the place that will um protect the charge so

[1:23:13] Voice 7: um what's happening this is happening right now um and what's next well i mean what's next is

[1:23:22] Voice 7: we've got some draft bylaws the um the ltc hasn't uh you know it's a new ltc you've got to remember

[1:23:29] Voice 7: So this is all a learning process for us all, right?

[1:23:33] Voice 7: So they'll have to have a look at the bylaws.

[1:23:37] Voice 7: I'll tell you a little bit more

[1:23:38] Voice 7: about what's in the bylaw further on.

[1:23:41] Voice 7: One of the key pieces,

[1:23:42] Voice 7: and we've done this one in Galliano Island.

[1:23:44] Voice 7: So one of the key pieces,

[1:23:46] Voice 7: if they decide to move towards the idea

[1:23:50] Voice 7: of a development permit area,

[1:23:52] then a decision will need to be made

[1:23:55] about what the boundaries of

[1:23:57] Voice 7: that will be.

[1:23:58] Voice 7: so where that where will be that area with where um you know you'll have to apply this before you

[1:24:06] can go to

[1:24:07] Voice 7: shadowing so that's all those are all decisions that are supposed to be um and then

[1:24:14] Voice 7: with bylaws um and

[1:24:21] Voice 5: i will note that

[1:24:22] Voice 7: there are actually there's two components

[1:24:24] Voice 5: to the groundwater

[1:24:24] Voice 5: implementation and

[1:24:26] Voice 7: there so there's a land use bylaw portion and the land use file you're going

[1:24:30] Voice 7: have a discussion about the land use by law later on after this and the land use by law so so when

[1:24:37] Voice 7: we looked at the language while we looked at the things that we could be including to um first of

[1:24:42] all um just ensure that there's consistent you know that we were using the language you know

[1:24:49] around fresh

[1:24:49] Voice 7: water so there's some new definitions and that sort of thing i think that's pretty

[1:24:52] Voice 7: straightforward um we have recommended in the land use by law uh systems for all the bills and

[1:25:00] Voice 7: And I think this is, you know, some of the conversation really spoke to the need related to that.

[1:25:06] Voice 7: You know, you have these periods of huge amounts of water, and so this would ensure that at least the new builds are capturing that water, at least a portion of it.

[1:25:18] Voice 7: 18,000 meters, that was based on some research on silence.

[1:25:31] Voice 7: um there's also updates to the regulations related to water subdivision and so that's all about one

[1:25:37] Voice 7: test and uh you know um and the amounts that will be required um so yeah so this the second component

[1:25:53] Voice 7: is the official community plan amendment proposal and that includes again general there's general

[1:26:00] Voice 7: amendments so again it's about um referring to fresh water sustainability referring to

[1:26:07] the fresh water sustainability strategy which is actually a trust-wide strategy that we developed

[1:26:12] last year and um and then the creation of um of groundwater recharge protection development

[1:26:19] uh development permit area which is as i've discussed

[1:26:23] Voice 7: so how so what so how are we using

[1:26:27] Voice 7: the science i'm like oh here we are i've said i mentioned this before the development permit area

[1:26:33] Voice 7: it just uh provides guidance on applications so so so it's not enforceable um the dpa

[1:26:45] Voice 7: so what would you

[1:26:47] Voice 2: prefer to do in terms

[1:26:48] Voice 5: of so if you just reading what you're saying well if you

[1:26:51] Voice 5: want to just say that? Well,

[1:26:53] Voice 7: if you were wanting to get a

[1:26:55] Voice 7: building permit, develop something, then you have to, you

[1:26:59] would have to go to through the development process and get your

[1:27:04] development for it, or get your building for it. And then if you

[1:27:08] do something that violates the permit, then you can be there

[1:27:16] Voice 7: can be

[1:27:17] Voice 5: implications to that. So I'm just going to clarify that.

[1:27:20] Voice 5: So a DPA is enforceable.

[1:27:21] Voice 5: The answer is a DPA is enforceable technically.

[1:27:24] Voice 5: We're working on that.

[1:27:25] Voice 5: It's an issue in the trust.

[1:27:27] Voice 5: But technically speaking, a DPA is enforceable.

[1:27:31] Voice 5: There's a lot of enforcement happening to it.

[1:27:33] Voice 5: What does not prohibit development means is just that you can't,

[1:27:37] Voice 5: we can't reasonably across the landscape say you can't do anything on your land

[1:27:42] Voice 5: because that's not really a thing in that good way of land.

[1:27:46] Voice 5: So it doesn't say that you can't do any development.

[1:27:49] Voice 5: it just you have to contain development into this area or in this way because of some ecological

[1:27:55] Voice 5: nature needs are required that's all

[1:27:58] Voice 8: yeah if i may it's not a moratorium thank you it's conditional

[1:28:02] Voice 5: yeah

[1:28:03] Voice 7: so um

[1:28:06] Voice 5: there there are when you when you develop the dpa um you go through a process

[1:28:13] by identifying exemptions to that dpa so there are a number of circumstances where if you do want to

[1:28:19] develop something or you want to do something to your land um that uh in a development area

[1:28:27] Voice 7: um there are a number of things that we need to account for and that's those are in the acceptance

[1:28:34] so these you know some of these include um you know where where

[1:28:40] Voice 7: a registered professional

[1:28:41] Voice 7: hydrologist um identifies the development won't have

[1:28:50] There's certain things related to construction and repair, so if you're just doing repair,

[1:28:55] general maintenance,

[1:28:57] Voice 7: reconstruction of a local building in the same place, then you don't

[1:29:01] Voice 7: need this.

[1:29:03] Voice 7: We've added something related to clustering a building, because we want to encourage clustering

[1:29:10] a building, so that's to encourage that, because that has a lower cap rate.

[1:29:18] You're also reducing roadways, repair and maintenance of existing roads, fields, etc.

[1:29:29] Destructions of small structures and fences and trails that aren't ultimate.

[1:29:38] Voice 5: Here's just quickly based on an experience I've had, are there readily available registered professional hydrogeologists?

[1:29:44] Voice 5: Because I'm drawing upon an example where I had to look for an archaeologist to comment on the ability

[1:29:54] Voice 7: to deal with some land and they were not available.

[1:30:00] Voice 7: of residential matters and would be found one way up past and I'm out would be in the tens of

[1:30:07] Voice 7: thousands of dollars so bringing this forward you know are the professionals going to be available

[1:30:20] Voice 8: yeah there's quite a few hydrogelers on the south coast there's some big firms and there's some

[1:30:28] uh single sole practitioners that will do this kind of

[1:30:33] Voice 2: work i know they exist some new archaeologists

[1:30:36] Voice 2: yeah i

[1:30:37] Voice 2: mean i'm

[1:30:42] Voice 8: not going to assume what my colleagues want to do what they don't want to do

[1:30:46] Voice 8: but just by working with the applications and there's hydro geologists that will do small

[1:30:59] like single digit thousand dollar projects to hundreds of thousands of dollar projects

[1:31:04] i'm

[1:31:06] Voice 8: not going to mention names but there's two sole practitioner ideologists there

[1:31:10] Voice 8: well i

[1:31:15] Voice 5: raise it because you're making a recommendation and it has to be practical

[1:31:19] Voice 5: and i think the bulk of people you know would be on side with things like this but

[1:31:24] Voice 5: by putting that as a condition when people who

[1:31:29] Voice 5: are there to

[1:31:29] Voice 2: do it are not available or charged

[1:31:40] Voice 5: So professional reliance model is something that is actually a question, like, generally I gave an example. Yeah, that one. There actually is, there's a number of different types of issues, the one you're naming in terms of the cost.

[1:31:59] Voice 5: um but there's also the issue that like i think five times last term i felt hand tied

[1:32:05] Voice 5: with professional advice that was given on are you kidding me like that's not cool but because

[1:32:12] Voice 5: it's professional advice like you've come stuck like it it was a criteria that you checked it

[1:32:19] Voice 5: and now we move on so i think there's problems around the edges of that system um and it's

[1:32:26] Voice 5: something to

[1:32:30] Voice 5: and like it's it weighs against like do we have those members in the

[1:32:34] Voice 5: conservancy and we just have them from the conservancy as a part of the trust

[1:32:37] Voice 5: or do we you know have them fully external and you

[1:32:42] Voice 5: that's tough luck if you want to do anything you have to take well you know

[1:32:45] Voice 5: so we'll find

[1:32:46] Voice 9: a flag recommendation

[1:32:47] Voice 9: for

[1:32:48] Voice 5: sure and one last thing just about this um this is the work that the staff

[1:32:56] Voice 5: has done around this this is not necessarily what's going to go on on this side yeah but i

[1:33:02] Voice 5: just want to generally say that thank you yeah also

[1:33:04] Voice 7: to comment on trust

[1:33:06] Voice 8: marks and um

[1:33:09] professional alliance model it was an issue and the government did take it seriously and

[1:33:14] you know there's the professional governance act and like i'm a registered uh geoscientist

[1:33:20] and engineers and field science association and um the this legislation actually changed our

[1:33:28] our ethics and our code of ethics um and the significant

[1:33:35] Voice 8: change was that all professionals

[1:33:38] have to follow established

[1:33:40] Voice 8: guidance documents so before like trust morse would say even like two

[1:33:44] Voice 8: years ago a professional could just write a letter and say i'm a professional you gotta eat it um

[1:33:49] Voice 8: Where now they have to follow guidance documents and part of the geoscientists on their sustainability advisory group are creating sustainability guidelines that professionals have to follow.

[1:34:02] So, for example, something like this, we can do an area

[1:34:06] Voice 8: -specific guidance document that can be developed in coordination with the province.

[1:34:11] Voice 8: that a professional hydrogeologist can go through and and determine the risk of a property

[1:34:19] having impact on recharge without being there because that's for thousands of dollars

[1:34:24] Voice 8: and

[1:34:25] Voice 8: that's a possibility which would be an external thing because i

[1:34:30] Voice 2: think it would be unfair if

[1:34:32] like some hydrogeologist that's not a requirement of my position that i would be equivocating that

[1:34:38] It would be on the onus of the developer to do that work, just like slow stability or any other work that

[1:34:46] Voice 2: developers have to do.

[1:34:50] Voice 7: Yeah, and so also, you know, just building on what you said there, you know, these are all exemptions.

[1:34:58] Voice 7: These are all now in the Galliano bylaw, and they're going forward for screening next week.

[1:35:06] Voice 7: but these these these haven't been read they you know there's still discussion to be had with this

[1:35:12] ltc and um so

[1:35:14] Voice 7: these some of these exemptions these exemptions could all change others could be added

[1:35:19] Voice 7: so there's still room for all kinds of competition around this i mean there's some basic ones you

[1:35:25] Voice 7: know again um things related to other jurisdictional um other jurisdictions like uh the

[1:35:33] right to farm act for example um forest management public private managed forest

[1:35:39] um

[1:35:40] Voice 7: emergency actions you know you don't think this would make sense um and then there's

[1:35:46] Voice 7: other things that we've added in there um um again related to more of the instructional

[1:35:53] things that have already come in on the land if there are things that are

[1:35:57] Voice 7: taken by the government

[1:36:04] Voice 7: So there's something that's happening and

[1:36:06] Voice 7: then there's some wiggle room for some discussion um so how did we determine the development permit area boundaries options yes no

[1:36:21] Voice 8: no I know yeah

[1:36:22] Voice 7: that's right that's right yeah how did we determine the options for the development permit boundaries and so what so William has explained all of this.

[1:36:31] Voice 7: the slide is leading up to that map with the blue areas right so we got the blue areas which are

[1:36:38] Voice 7: what we're what we're calling the critical aquifer recharge areas the blue right

[1:36:45] Voice 7: so what we did is we laid on um all of the law lines and the options that and we we developed

[1:36:57] Voice 7: the amount of coverage of blue on a lot, right?

[1:37:01] Voice 7: So if, so the map that has the most amount of coverage,

[1:37:07] Voice 7: that is representing those lots that have one hectare of

[1:37:15] coverage of critical off over recharge area

[1:37:18] Voice 7: or more, right?

[1:37:20] Voice 7: So if you got one hectare, the map shows that you've got one hectare or more.

[1:37:25] Voice 7: So that if you're if your property is under a hector when when you register right so all the way up to 10 so 10 is there would be 10 hectors of critical awkwardly tried areas that's big big area on the property for that property or more right without property be part of of that option for a development area so

[1:37:51] Voice 8: now we've got the examples

[1:37:52] Voice 8: just to contrast that would be first when we're doing this.

[1:37:57] This is actually a novel concept that you carry a lot and it took some took like a lot to do it in the way was doing percentage of cover but what that did

[1:38:08] Voice 8: is punch the small lots yeah and and didn't punish the big lots where there's the most amount of church and it was like impacting all of these properties for for a very small fraction of area and so as you can see on the bottom left there.

[1:38:26] there's there's a note of how many parcels are affected by the dpa um the hectares of protected

[1:38:33] Voice 8: area of the critical aqua recharge area remember we identified 1200 hectares and then so there's

[1:38:41] the percentage of total um and as you notice with your eye that the boundaries are

[1:38:46] Voice 8: um following the

[1:38:49] Voice 8: the parcel that those would be the dpa lines like it would be it would be non-successful

[1:38:59] Voice 8: to draw dpa lines around the critical after the charges and

[1:39:03] Voice 2: you can see like so you see

[1:39:05] Voice 2: these are all the less than one active

[1:39:09] Voice 5: there's another quick question what's the difference

[1:39:11] Voice 5: between the green and the gray colors on this okay

[1:39:14] Voice 8: so i'll speak to that so what i did was

[1:39:16] Voice 8: the green and the legends cut off the green is the critical act for recharge area and and the like

[1:39:25] the gray is it doesn't have the awkward recharge area but that's

[1:39:30] Voice 8: that's the parcels within the dpa

[1:39:32] Voice 8: so all the color is the dpa yeah i

[1:39:36] Voice 8: just wanted to show like how much so like there is there should

[1:39:41] Voice 8: should be green here right but but it's not in the dpa so it's being omitted right and as this is a

[1:39:48] Voice 8: lot um and as we go through the other options you'll see that the green area is shrinking and

[1:39:54] Voice 8: not so much parts but like yeah for this area here you have green and brown or whatever but

[1:40:01] Voice 8: this whole parcel is so this

[1:40:04] Voice 7: is a good idea i mean something i guess like again you would have

[1:40:09] Voice 7: to apply for a dpa and your and your um your professional hydrologist might say

[1:40:15] Voice 7: i gotta

[1:40:17] Voice 5: pause us so this is not a dpa it's been proposed yet and i have to keep saying this

[1:40:25] Voice 5: because i'm hearing you say you'd have to apply for this so this is a discussion about a tool

[1:40:31] Voice 5: that is potentially one of the list of possible tools that we could use it's not something that

[1:40:37] Voice 5: we are currently seeing we're going to use so it's a potential dpa it's essentially yeah but

[1:40:44] Voice 5: i need you to

[1:40:44] Voice 5: say it that way because what i'm going to do is i'm going to get like 50 left

[1:40:52] Voice 5: yeah

[1:40:53] Voice 7: yeah i

[1:40:53] Voice 5: had

[1:40:55] Voice 8: to double down on that it's a potential dba i mean it's a potential tool regulatory tool

[1:41:11] Voice 8: but also then what we're discussing here are the potential options for the potential yeah

[1:41:18] Voice 5: what it

[1:41:19] Voice 5: could look like thank you but that's helpful because but i need you to keep using

[1:41:22] Voice 5: that language because absolutely this is tender yeah this is all potential this is just us right

[1:41:32] Voice 7: Oh,

[1:41:32] Voice 8: and also, to be fair, yours is going to go through this, um, the options in the maps

[1:41:41] are actually like way more complex than Galeana.

[1:41:46] And that's, that's because the nature of the terrain and where the recharge fell in Galeana,

[1:41:52] it was like, no brainer, but this way, like there's, if you just

[1:41:57] Voice 8: move your eyes around

[1:41:59] Voice 8: around the map, you'll see winners and let's call it winners and losers or ins and outs with neighbors that aren't. And that's very difficult. Right. So even though these are the options, staff would definitely encourage doing some manual adjustments.

[1:42:20] Voice 8: yeah this is just like basically representing science yeah yeah

[1:42:24] Voice 2: so

[1:42:26] Voice 5: the take-home message is

[1:42:28] Voice 5: don't see your property on here and panic yeah because this is a conversation just to think

[1:42:32] Voice 5: about what the science is showing us and then we can think about how

[1:42:35] Voice 2: it could be used

[1:42:35] Voice 5: yeah okay

[1:42:36] Voice 5: thank you yeah sorry

[1:42:38] Voice 2: quick question so

[1:42:39] Voice 7: what happens if somebody has a penny an hectare

[1:42:42] Voice 7: plot and they subdivide it into one

[1:42:46] Voice 6: hectare plots then all of a sudden does this become white or is

[1:42:51] Voice 6: that uh grandfather that even if you subdivide it you still have potential yeah yeah so that is good

[1:42:59] Voice 6: i mean again

[1:43:02] Voice 7: it depends where it falls really right like i mean if it fell um here for example

[1:43:08] Voice 7: right and you have like your smaller lots then the ones that would be here may very well continue to

[1:43:14] Voice 7: be a part of that area and it would obviously be something i mean it's a really good question

[1:43:19] Voice 7: because it's something that staff have to consider and potentially revise them

[1:43:22] Voice 8: out yeah and that's

[1:43:24] Voice 8: what i think revising dpas is really difficult i mean there's dps i really want to fix and

[1:43:30] and planners and managers like we're not changing dpa beyond just like this i think it's very rare

[1:43:36] that happens i can correct it um but but maybe in this case this is exactly what the cpa is for

[1:43:43] because if there is a large lot and it is going to be subdivided and hopefully through that there

[1:43:50] especially it's going to be reasonable that there could be conditions that are addressing tpa

[1:44:00] Voice 7: because i mean if you're going through a subdivision process there's a number of

[1:44:05] Voice 7: of things that can be looked at so um conditions um approaches another

[1:44:13] Voice 8: thing that i want to mention

[1:44:15] Voice 8: is that um aside from the dpa or the or the options and all this stuff another tool that

[1:44:24] the ltc can consider is taking the critical upper recharge areas and making that

[1:44:30] Voice 8: a scheduled map

[1:44:32] Voice 8: as part of the ocp as we invest without it and and then when significant applications arise

[1:44:39] the the lgc can say well with a scheduled map that there's you're in this very high

[1:44:47] critical recharge area and then the lgc uh

[1:44:51] Voice 8: can make conditions or or i'm not a planner but but

[1:44:54] Voice 8: but it's scheduled now.

[1:44:56] Voice 7: Well, yeah, I mean, this work can function

[1:45:01] Voice 7: in a number of different ways.

[1:45:02] Voice 7: So I've used it on North Penn.

[1:45:05] Voice 7: Sorry, where are we?

[1:45:06] Voice 7: Maine.

[1:45:07] Voice 7: What am I the planner for?

[1:45:10] Voice 7: I've used this work.

[1:45:13] Voice 7: Maine has been addressing housing,

[1:45:16] Voice 7: And they have passed some recent bylaw amendments

[1:45:23] Voice 9: that allow

[1:45:25] Voice 7: in a very pilot area, an additional,

[1:45:29] Voice 7: essentially additional in a maximum floor area.

[1:45:35] Voice 7: Anyways, we did use this. We used this science and some of the, we also used the water,

[1:45:40] Voice 7: some of the other mapping to identify where the areas where you shouldn't be adding that density are.

[1:45:49] Voice 7: So all of this mapping, even if you don't go towards this idea for protection of the critical aquifer area,

[1:45:58] Voice 7: this mapping will be used. I'm going to say it will be used.

[1:46:02] Voice 7: At least staff will be encouraging LTCs to use it in housing projects related to density.

[1:46:09] Voice 7: yeah so you know we've talked kind of through these there is a number of different options

[1:46:16] Voice 7: and what I was going to indicate is that um um you know in the application for a double

[1:46:21] Voice 7: net permit area the appropriate place to place your your house or your shed or whatever would

[1:46:27] Voice 7: be determined right so it would be like no this is you can't you know through the professional

[1:46:32] Voice 7: reliance bringing your your expert in to identify where the more appropriate place on the lot

[1:46:38] Voice 7: like they might find it might be kind of that this is highly critical

[1:46:42] Voice 7: so there might be suggestions to put in another area that could be an outcome

[1:46:50] Voice 7: um and i'm here this is just the base map and uh there's all

[1:46:55] Voice 7: the there's all the comparisons

[1:46:58] Voice 7: and there's that you can see um the percentages of the protection that he wants to contribute to

[1:47:05] Voice 8: so i just want to say so i'm sure uh many of you have a keen eye and on the 10 hectare

[1:47:11] options we have identified 16 parcels but you probably identified those parcels are

[1:47:18] private or publicly held lands or conservation

[1:47:21] Voice 7: plans and those would be excluded

[1:47:24] Voice 7: so this map

[1:47:25] Voice 7: might be that last map they actually have um and this is just our beginning slide and

[1:47:36] i

[1:47:36] Voice 7: i i will add um that uh this this this um this image came out of a process that was related to

[1:47:44] Voice 7: the development of our fresh water sustainability strategy um where we brought together a number of

[1:47:50] Voice 7: indigenous knowledge holders and um and youth yeah to have a conversation and identify um you know

[1:48:00] water like the importance of water

[1:48:02] Voice 7: to them in this area and they they also so they participated

[1:48:07] Voice 7: also in our um we had a advisory committee uh developing our top this water strategy

[1:48:13] Voice 7: and so we had we had that piece and this knowledge keeper participation which was very um

[1:48:20] Voice 7: enriching experience for for the rest of us that were involved um so i'll leave it at that

[1:48:29] Voice 7: I have one last thing before we go, just to demonstrate how committed William is to this

[1:48:38] Voice 7: whole process, is that he's here today, and tomorrow's actually his birthday, so I have

[1:48:45] Voice 7: a

[1:48:45] Voice 2: gift for you.

[1:48:47] Voice 5: Can we see?

[1:48:49] Voice 2: It's a very appropriate gift, so you need to open it up.

[1:49:02] Voice 2: oh wow

[1:49:08] Voice 2: so this

[1:49:10] Voice 7: is a it's a rainforest uh water cycle mug

[1:49:18] Voice 7: has done these beautiful drawings and so this was a doing those drawings for us

[1:49:25] Voice 7: his wife is a potter. So one of those drawings for us inspired this collaboration with his wife.

[1:49:32] Voice 7: So

[1:49:32] Voice 8: there's like the aquifer and the soil.

[1:49:46] Voice 5: That's awesome. Thank you. Thank you very much.

[1:49:49] Voice 5: Question?

[1:49:50] Voice 5: Yeah, other questions?

[1:49:51] Voice 2: Yeah, we have a question.

[1:49:52] Voice 2: Yep.

[1:49:54] Voice 5: seems to me that there's a lot of everyone's a little bit skitterish about it but as um

[1:50:11] Voice 5: he said victoria watershed there's fences all around it no human goes in there except

[1:50:21] Voice 5: to the maintenance

[1:50:25] Voice 2: and all no questions asked the public was consulted i

[1:50:32] Voice 5: mean it's just an

[1:50:33] Voice 5: example of how much other areas are trying to protect the watershed so i remember it's like

[1:50:42] Voice 5: kind of all of a sudden large yeah

[1:50:44] Voice 8: this is great i bring this up a lot yeah um especially when i

[1:50:48] Voice 8: teach the students um like the biggest uh most densely populated places on the coast vancouver

[1:50:59] victoria duncan have landscapes set aside generating water that's what the landscape

[1:51:08] protected watersheds um is an interesting one they like to recreate on that one but whatever

[1:51:14] um i don't think recreating is bad on home watersheds but but

[1:51:19] Voice 8: that plan is dead in

[1:51:23] Voice 8: our productive watersheds we live on it industry on it grows on it like we're living on top

[1:51:31] Voice 8: of the water and it's so important and i'm really starting to realize an impact and actually how

[1:51:43] Voice 8: special it is and that's why groundwater i come back to it it's a unique amenity on these islands

[1:51:50] because we're living on top of the recharge um in areas of vancouver island um that are supported

[1:51:58] Voice 8: by wells a lot of their uh recharges way up in the mountains um

[1:52:03] Voice 7: yeah so that's why it's great

[1:52:06] Voice 7: that's

[1:52:09] Voice 5: a great question about that so there's something i've been thinking about on tender

[1:52:13] Voice 5: and that is that um you know we talk a little bit about houses and cisterns for storage to

[1:52:20] Voice 5: we have a lot of this like dr matter great in the winter and not too much at all in the summer

[1:52:26] Voice 5: but we can't all do that like the vineyards and the farms and stuff like that they can't be storing

[1:52:33] Voice 5: enough water for the summer so they have to rely on the groundwater and so i guess that's a question

[1:52:40] Voice 5: i have about like and part of that i think is an education like how we help homeowners try to be

[1:52:45] Voice 5: the ones to not draw on the well water so that we can you know manage it but do like again i don't

[1:52:52] Voice 5: this is just a question like is there other places in the province that have differences for

[1:52:57] Voice 5: different types of users on the groundwater and micro pulling people off groundwater so that

[1:53:02] Voice 5: others can have it yeah

[1:53:04] Voice 8: so um like the brought up the pink elephant in the room it's agriculture

[1:53:09] Voice 8: and and yeah there are areas that are much more massive than the islands like

[1:53:24] Voice 8: And an area where they're reconfiguring water is the Coxella watershed on the Vancouver Island.

[1:53:34] It's the biggest tributary to the Cowichan River.

[1:53:37] And there's heavy First Nation involvement there.

[1:53:41] But they're having a

[1:53:43] Voice 8: huge impact on salmon runs because of the removal of groundwater from agriculture.

[1:53:50] So

[1:53:52] Voice 8: they're taking a very significant deep look at reconfiguring groundwater licenses.

[1:53:59] Voice 8: Never been done before.

[1:54:02] Voice 8: In the Okanagan, there's obvious water issues there as well.

[1:54:06] Voice 8: I would say the impacts that we find on water withdrawal on the islands here are not so much a volume issue,

[1:54:18] where it's like, yeah, one farm is going to use the same amount of volume as 50 homes.

[1:54:24] the issue is those 50 homes are on the coast and they all have their individual well

[1:54:28] and they're all pumping at the same time and that that that's a

[1:54:33] very significant issue because of salt water intrusion and also well to well interference um

[1:54:39] that's why

[1:54:39] Voice 8: like i was speaking with some folks in the room where they elected not to have a well

[1:54:45] Voice 8: have cisterns and using it that way and just not participating in that water accounting game and

[1:54:54] Voice 8: and the associated risk with that so like i don't want to keep bringing up a neighbor but

[1:55:01] like maine island is quite successful with their high density because of their managed water

[1:55:07] systems and if maine island like we have you know trustee here just imagine if all of those regions

[1:55:15] had a well probably likely would and and the fact that maine has all those well-managed water

[1:55:23] systems that have the monitoring and recording and they they know their water

[1:55:26] Voice 8: levels they know

[1:55:27] Voice 8: the volumes they can identify leaks and their wells are up the hill and the lots are down the

[1:55:33] Voice 8: hill by the coast uh it's a successful

[1:55:38] Voice 2: way to managing water so

[1:55:44] Voice 8: i like if i were to forecast

[1:55:46] Voice 8: like because i like forecasting some of the sun geoscientists a thousand years in the future the

[1:55:51] Voice 8: well a lot of things are going to fade and then we're going to have larger well

[1:55:55] Voice 8: i have

[1:55:58] Voice 5: a question um we're part of the trincomalee district so we're doing thank you but one of the

[1:56:05] Voice 5: things that we've heard from residents timing repeatedly they tried to use systems but they

[1:56:11] Voice 5: run into roadblocks with building permits and their ability to get things approved through

[1:56:17] Voice 5: like using green water for flushing and doing those kinds of things because we've been

[1:56:22] Voice 5: playing around with ways to conserve water for years right i think some people make a

[1:56:26] Voice 5: joke about trinkle on tender because you used to get your water posted on the bulletin board

[1:56:31] Voice 1: anyway as you

[1:56:34] Voice 5: move forward as we promoted this process i think it's really important that all

[1:56:38] Voice 5: the pieces fit together so that if people are being encouraged to use cisterns that they don't

[1:56:42] Voice 5: run into a roadblock when they get their building permit to build their house right to

[1:56:47] Voice 2: do all the

[1:56:47] Voice 2: things that need to happen so

[1:56:48] Voice 8: it might be interesting i was championing this because

[1:56:52] Voice 8: i i like i said about salt spring and there was um a few of my friends that were trying to put

[1:56:58] up cisterns and because their cistern was greater than four feet was considered a structure which

[1:57:04] then needed an engineer to and so we petitioned hard the building permit dude and and what came

[1:57:15] what came out of that was that if you're not on this deep slope that there is

[1:57:20] Voice 8: engineering spec

[1:57:22] Voice 8: that like your your local backhoe person can follow the spec and drop the sister down you

[1:57:30] Voice 8: know i didn't say right but that was a roadblock to get rid of um there isn't like citing and use

[1:57:37] Voice 8: issues that i don't know but well

[1:57:40] Voice 6: that's what we

[1:57:41] Voice 7: we you know we look at the bylaws to make sure that

[1:57:43] Voice 7: there's that our bylaws are not in conflict with each other well

[1:57:48] Voice 5: i think that's what i'm going to

[1:57:49] Voice 5: say like the island's trust needs to make sure yeah the crd that this thing is coordinated yes

[1:57:56] Voice 5: absolutely yeah

[1:57:57] Voice 8: and also another thing um the building code already has uh uh what is it called

[1:58:03] Voice 8: like two two two source systems no i know i'm not saying that right but in the building code

[1:58:11] you can have the gray water like gray water and fresh water that you're allowed to do if you fall

[1:58:18] to

[1:58:19] Voice 8: source like i'm not saying it right but like like gray water recycling isn't important so

[1:58:27] Voice 8: which is a really good option yeah gray water recycling is so hard and right now we're we're

[1:58:33] Voice 7: talking about systems for uh non-clinical so that's so

[1:58:37] Voice 2: watering your garden yeah watering

[1:58:39] Voice 7: your garden it's

[1:58:40] Voice 8: like the lowest stakes though right so you don't don't need to treat it or

[1:58:44] Voice 8: probably treat it like filter yeah because i can

[1:58:47] Voice 8: add a whole other dimension

[1:58:52] Voice 5: okay so i i uh somewhere in our life right there's somebody because um we i think we need to

[1:59:04] Voice 5: both internally for us because we literally had

[1:59:07] Voice 5: a conversation about like so how do we get gray

[1:59:09] Voice 5: water literally that issue like how do we make sure gray water is not a problem so if that's

[1:59:13] Voice 5: actually in the current building we need just some educational materials around that and then um uh

[1:59:19] Voice 5: also to your point i think that there is a little bit of the issue that's true i think for single

[1:59:24] Voice 5: family residential but when you get into multi-family residential or commercial

[1:59:28] Voice 5: there's some problem with that and so i

[1:59:30] Voice 5: think there's some pilot projects that i know have

[1:59:33] Voice 5: been like proposed across the belt to try and remedy that situation with nia uh around health

[1:59:39] Voice 5: issues but i think we should push on that on private projects if we can yeah

[1:59:44] Voice 7: and um yeah so

[1:59:47] Voice 7: i mean brad is going to be your planner now and because of i'm transitioning out so uh you know

[1:59:53] Voice 7: do you have questions being directed to brad and myself but brad needs to be the move because he's

[1:59:58] Voice 7: going to ask

[2:00:00] Voice 7: we're we're transitioning somebody else to be the water focus but that's going to take a little bit

[2:00:04] Voice 7: of time but we're going to you know i mean the process is still continuing we're learning more

[2:00:10] Voice 7: and more um you know what we've learned at galliano has been

[2:00:13] Voice 7: great it's great this is

[2:00:15] Voice 7: really the second this is the the second uh ltc that has started looking at the implementation

[2:00:21] Voice 7: of the data, so it'll likely continue throughout the test.

[2:00:29] Where are the monitored wells on Penderosa, is any of them in zone 71?

[2:00:37] Voice 7: Oh,

[2:00:38] Voice 2: that's the one too.

[2:00:39] Voice 9: On

[2:00:40] Voice 5: 7th and 5th.

[2:00:41] Voice 7: Is that one by?

[2:00:43] Voice 5: Oh, it was.

[2:00:44] Voice 2: It was one by 411.

[2:00:51] Voice 5: Paisley

[2:00:51] Voice 7: Road, I think.

[2:01:19] Voice 7: Yeah, so I think we've like expanded our time on this. Thanks, everybody for hanging in there and listening tight. And I think at this point, we'll start to transition. I'll turn it over to you, Chair.

[2:01:46] Voice 5: There is one. Well, um, Paisley Road. Yeah. And the other one is, okay, so one on Paisley

[2:02:00] Voice 5: want to hire us

[2:02:01] Voice 2: just two that's

[2:02:03] Voice 5: two monitored ones from the province yeah and we we were actually

[2:09:57] Trustee Maude: we'll come back to order um the next part um but we didn't approve the agenda but i assume

[2:10:03] Trustee Maude: by consent for their yes please

[2:10:06] Voice 5: take your conversation into the foyer if you're still

[2:10:09] Voice 5: talking thank

[2:10:10] Trustee Maude: you okay so we're about the land use uh biology project and um i'm assuming that

[2:10:17] Trustee Maude: um finance doctor has a 30-second preamble

[2:10:21] Voice 1: yes i'll make it shorter and

[2:10:24] Trustee Maude: so what we we've got

[2:10:26] Trustee Maude: eight points that she's brought forward for then for consideration as to direction moving forward

[2:10:32] and then potential um reading of the first set of amendments to file up so

[2:10:37] Trustee Maude: that we can move the

[2:10:38] Trustee Maude: process forward this is not a conclusion it's sort of it's like the next step of opening the

[2:10:43] Trustee Maude: door to more public consultation so that is optimal thank you

[2:10:47] Voice 5: i do want to preface all of

[2:10:49] Voice 5: the all of this with the fact that we've been working on this project for three years and i

[2:10:55] Voice 5: sense from the community and also the ltc that i think we're getting to the point where we can

[2:11:00] Voice 5: make some final decisions in order to move whatever the ltc feels comfortable with forward

[2:11:07] Voice 5: so then other projects can be started like housing or so forth so i think

[2:11:12] Voice 5: it's really important that

[2:11:13] Voice 5: we get to a point today where the ltc makes those amendments they like the free bylaws in order for

[2:11:19] Voice 5: them to be given first and second reading and then we can move forward to hopefully scheduling a

[2:11:24] Voice 5: public hearing um if there are items that are still the ltc feels like it's still contentious

[2:11:30] Voice 5: and perhaps you can't make a decision today it may be worthwhile simply just pulling them out of this

[2:11:36] Voice 5: project putting them on the projects list to deal with at another time because i fear if we deal

[2:11:43] Voice 5: with these contentious issues for another six twelve months the ltc is losing that opportunity

[2:11:49] Voice 5: need to be working on another project unless the ltc feels as though it really needs to be having

[2:11:54] Voice 5: now but you may want to think about pulling out some aspects if required from this project

[2:12:00] Voice 5: so what i think i'll do is we can just perhaps go through each point one by one and have a

[2:12:06] Voice 5: discussion is that how the ltc yeah if

[2:12:10] Voice 8: we were to pull something out yeah when

[2:12:12] Voice 8: we had talked

[2:12:13] Voice 8: previously there was is there the possibility not to not to completely pull it out just to move it

[2:12:20] Voice 8: so that the other the other stuff can be moved forward yeah and not turn it into a three-year

[2:12:27] Voice 8: project to deal with those things but give some time to talk a little bit more about what those

[2:12:34] Voice 8: are and how they're crafted going forward

[2:12:36] Voice 5: so you have that opportunity what you could do

[2:12:38] Voice 5: is finalize at least one like 224 so it can move forward it doesn't need a it complies with the

[2:12:45] Voice 5: OCP right now so that can move forward

[2:12:47] Voice 5: and you can hold back 223 229 to have a little bit more

[2:12:51] Voice 5: discussion the uh issue with that approach is that would probably you probably need two public

[2:12:58] Voice 5: hearings right you need one public hearing for 224 and then down

[2:13:03] Voice 5: the road another public hearing

[2:13:04] Voice 5: for 223 and 229 and there's an expense associated with that could be anywhere between a thousand to

[2:13:10] Voice 5: fifteen hundred dollars for a public hearing potentially so

[2:13:13] Voice 5: um or you can certainly keep all

[2:13:16] Voice 5: three bylaws back for the next few months and still work on them but i just want to throw that

[2:13:20] Voice 5: out there if you do pull something out of 224 put it in the other two bylaws and move bylaw

[2:13:26] Voice 5: 224 forward with public hearing you still need to then hold a second public i was hoping that

[2:13:32] Voice 5: we could get all three bylaws at one public hearing because then that eliminates that's

[2:13:36] Voice 5: just the one cost the one notice cost it's just something to keep in mind there's financial

[2:13:43] Voice 5: implications with that too that i

[2:13:44] Voice 5: didn't mention to you okay

[2:13:46] Trustee Maude: so you want to walk us through one

[2:13:49] Voice 5: yeah so the first one uh was a letter that we received from a member of the magic lake property

[2:13:54] Voice 5: owner society there where the current uh playground and tennis courts are located that lot is actually

[2:14:02] Voice 5: some residential and the society is hoping to rezone that to its current use which is a community

[2:14:10] Voice 5: park to use with a site-specific uh zoning that allows the tennis courts there was an error in

[2:14:17] Voice 5: this draft motion i i said that it would be an amendment to bylaw 224 but this property is also

[2:14:24] Voice 5: currently designated for residential in the ocp so it also means ocp so if the ltc is would like

[2:14:34] Voice 5: to move forward with that motion uh it would just need to be changed that direct staff to amend

[2:14:40] Voice 5: bylaw number 223 and 229 to rezone and redesignate body team do you want us to deal with these as we

[2:14:49] Voice 5: go i think so i think that would make sense okay so

[2:14:59] Voice 5: okay i'm going to go ahead and make the motion then and let me see if i can get this right

[2:15:04] okay

[2:15:05] Voice 5: all right that the north pender island local trust committee direct staff to amend draft bylaw

[2:15:11] Voice 5: number 223 and 229 to rezone lot 18 section 10 pender island cowichan district plan two two

[2:15:19] Voice 5: four two four to a site-specific community park two zone need to be common there that would also

[2:15:25] Voice 5: permit the existing task force is

[2:15:28] Trustee Maude: that good any discussion all questions that carries one down

[2:15:35] Trustee Maude: perfect

[2:15:36] Voice 5: the next one is also from the letter from a number of the magic lake property owner

[2:15:41] Voice 5: society. It's with regards to the proposed rural residential one zone, which is primarily

[2:15:50] Voice 5: Magic Lake and Trincomalee. It would be removing the accessory uses of pig farming, dog breeding,

[2:15:59] Voice 5: boarding kennels, and the keeping of livestock from the rural residential one zone. So there

[2:16:05] Voice 5: is a draft motion there on page four unfortunately i um i missed the end of the sentence there so

[2:16:14] Voice 5: there's a motion that direct staff to amend bylaw 224 to remove the following accessory uses and um

[2:16:22] Voice 5: i did miss the two uses of uh the keeping of livestock and boarding panels yeah thank you

[2:16:54] Voice 2: well

[2:16:54] Voice 5: it's on those properties that are greater than one acre when you're permitted but a lot of

[2:16:59] Voice 5: the properties in magic lake are less than one acre so they don't stop so and this is this

[2:17:05] Voice 5: language i think just sort of cleans it up so people don't look at it and be like oh wait no

[2:17:11] Voice 5: wait i can't because my property is too small so just like clarify no i know you can have your

[2:17:17] Voice 5: i'm not

[2:17:17] Voice 1: opposed to this one

[2:17:18] Voice 5: yeah the

[2:17:27] Voice 8: north fender island local trust committee direct staff to amend

[2:17:31] Voice 8: bylaw number two to four to remove the following accessory uses from the rural residential one so

[2:17:37] Voice 8: pig farming dog breeding porting kennels and keeping up livestock

[2:17:45] Trustee Maude: any discussion

[2:17:46] Trustee Maude: well we're doing our business unless it's something absolutely critical

[2:17:54] Voice 2: okay

[2:17:55] Trustee Maude: thank you okay so question all

[2:17:58] Trustee Maude: in favor thank you the

[2:18:01] Voice 5: next item is regards to that portion of

[2:18:03] Voice 5: driftwood center that's so that currently zoned as commercial too which is a tourist accommodation

[2:18:09] Voice 5: zone uh the ltc back in august of last year uh rezone that property to not allow tourist

[2:18:17] Voice 5: accommodation use but to only allow campground use so um the manager of that property has stated that

[2:18:27] Voice 5: she would like also that tourist accommodation use put back in so there is a draft motion there

[2:18:32] Voice 5: for the ltc to consider that would allow all uses in the commercial two zone for that portion of

[2:18:39] Voice 5: driftwood center

[2:18:40] Voice 2: so

[2:18:41] Voice 5: and to just be clear about this because you know the land use bylaws project

[2:18:45] Voice 5: is benefic so um so this would put it back to the way it currently is in our our existing file

[2:18:54] Voice 5: that's correct in the drop yes so there'll be no change for the driftwood as it stands now

[2:19:00] Voice 5: if we want to engage in the driftwood project that like it's something kind of then we would

[2:19:05] Voice 5: have to do that as a separate project of the uh which was the argument actually to put this back

[2:19:11] Voice 5: to the way it was so that it would be a separate project yeah i'm not adverse to that actually

[2:19:18] Voice 5: i

[2:19:18] Voice 8: think that there's there's information that has sort of come to life of the way that anything

[2:19:27] Voice 8: would be approved big issues water right like that's one of the big concerns with

[2:19:33] Voice 8: with what it is and sort of what we have stumbled upon in february here was that there's

[2:19:39] Voice 8: is also another level of approval that has to go on with the province for any any kind

[2:19:48] Voice 8: of development on a piece of property like that

[2:19:50] Voice 2: yeah

[2:19:52] Voice 8: in terms of groundwater

[2:19:52] Voice 5: i think

[2:19:53] Voice 5: it's groundwater there is a larger issue in that area because there's transportation like

[2:19:58] Voice 5: pedestrian transportation pathways up from bedwell that are under question there's some

[2:20:04] Voice 5: groundwater kind of movement issues related to the ditching and stuff like that but there's

[2:20:08] Voice 5: also like some of their existing permitting and this is something to kind of just check in with

[2:20:13] Voice 5: your thing about some of the existing stuff in their current permit isn't fully enacted yet

[2:20:18] Voice 5: so like there isn't vegetative screening from the parking lot right um which is supposed to be there

[2:20:25] Voice 5: so like that kind of stuff which is

[2:20:27] Voice 8: is but is some of that not also changing with the drift

[2:20:31] Voice 8: dude are you moving into that part because don't they take over part of that part

[2:20:37] Voice 8: to further the

[2:20:37] Voice 5: other side yeah so but i mean eventually when all that's finished then it

[2:20:43] Voice 5: kind of begs the question of having a look at it okay so i'm okay with this one sure just check is

[2:20:51] Voice 5: it muted still or no

[2:20:53] Trustee Maude: it's we're okay that the

[2:21:00] Voice 5: north pender local trust committee direct staff

[2:21:02] Voice 5: to amend by law draft by law number 224 to allow all uses of the commercial two zone for that

[2:21:07] Voice 5: portion of 4605 bedwell harbour road zone commercial 2g for bracket c2g right

[2:21:17] Trustee Maude: secretary and we've had discussions one question all in favor that carries okay

[2:21:23] Voice 5: and so just

[2:21:24] Voice 5: the last thought on that so that that move is just based on the conversations with the landowner

[2:21:29] Voice 5: to leave it as is until we want to have it as a specific focal community conversation the next

[2:21:38] Voice 5: The next item is the commercial two zoning for those four properties on McKinnon Road.

[2:21:43] Voice 5: Currently bylaw 224 reduces densities for those four properties and that's shown in this column on the page four of the staff report.

[2:21:55] Voice 5: So those are the proposed densities right now in bylaw 224.

[2:21:59] Voice 5: I have a draft motion now for the LTC to consider if you would like to increase those densities or decrease those densities.

[2:22:06] Voice 5: and i also sent uh trustee trustee morrison a draft motion as well

[2:22:16] Voice 5: they're hurting property 1329 and 1333

[2:22:20] Voice 5: okay let's

[2:22:25] Trustee Maude: chat about that okay and we know

[2:22:35] Voice 5: okay so there has been concerns on

[2:22:40] Voice 5: um a couple different fronts about the density that density

[2:22:43] Voice 5: was historic dense like across all those properties was historic density that was

[2:22:50] Voice 5: not necessarily thought out in any planning oriented way i think was the original critique

[2:22:56] Voice 5: the property after we started the land use by law process the property that two properties sold

[2:23:02] Voice 5: and they sold without the new landowners knowing the full extent of what was under conversation

[2:23:09] Voice 5: so it's a complicated situation like we don't land use plan for any one individual but at the

[2:23:14] Voice 5: same time it's like really like

[2:23:16] Voice 5: so it you have to you know they have a mortgage based on particular

[2:23:20] Voice 5: particular density it's a challenge so um they've been very gracious in terms of thinking with us

[2:23:26] Voice 5: we walked the property and talked about it um and so one of the options that we have here is to take

[2:23:33] Voice 5: a compromise space knowing that the water when the proof of water there's two big issues that

[2:23:38] Voice 5: were originally raised by landowners up in that area one was water um and the water issue is

[2:23:43] Voice 5: somewhat to do with the province the province can kind of proof of water it has to be done before

[2:23:47] Voice 5: densities built the other is um about traffic and just development as in a more general sense

[2:23:54] Voice 5: so in conversation with the landowners one of the suggestions is to sort of cut the

[2:24:01] Voice 5: difference and have the um 1329 mckinnon road be permitted 20 tourist units and 1333 mckinnon road

[2:24:11] Voice 5: seven units um there has been others who have already agreed to take much more reduction

[2:24:19] Voice 5: in their units in the area so this creates overall like a good compromise of lowering the units

[2:24:25] Voice 5: without penalizing the people that just bought the that one particular property based on or those

[2:24:31] Voice 5: combination problems they still have to do proof of water and they've already got plans to do a

[2:24:36] Voice 5: lot of cistern and storage and all the good things so um i would suggest that we approve this table

[2:24:42] Voice 5: as is except for 39 29 would be 20 and 13 33 would be 7 so it would read 3 27 8 yeah and that

[2:25:01] Voice 5: that that is a compromise that I think we can all like handle right now and allows us to like get

[2:25:09] Voice 5: into a more sort of reasonable level because those original numbers that were there they're from when

[2:25:14] Voice 5: the trust was created which

[2:25:16] Voice 2: was 55. yeah it

[2:25:17] Voice 5: was a lot and

[2:25:20] Trustee Maude: there's

[2:25:21] Voice 5: two other things that I wanted

[2:25:23] Voice 5: to mention yeah and so then there's there's or one other thing two buildings so the other problem

[2:25:31] Voice 5: that we have in that area is that i believe there's two buildings on that property right

[2:25:35] Voice 5: now that don't um meet the current definition of a unit they're bigger than a unit is so we want to

[2:25:43] Voice 5: grandfather those in so that they are a unit because otherwise like what do you do like it

[2:25:49] Voice 5: it could be just this vague thing when they go to o5 so we want to define them as a unit

[2:25:53] Voice 5: so that they don't penal get penalized when they go yeah

[2:25:57] Voice 8: and i just you can see like we keep our

[2:25:59] Voice 8: occupancy extremely as low as possible so like those you know if you go to do another thought

[2:26:03] Voice 8: that they're squeezing six people in trailers right so we'll be max our big building at six

[2:26:09] Voice 8: people right so yeah

[2:26:11] Voice 2: that's where our just

[2:26:13] Trustee Maude: to be clear you guys are comfortable with that with

[2:26:17] Trustee Maude: so you're we have thumbs up we

[2:26:20] Voice 5: felt it was fair after the two-year process to find a middle point

[2:26:24] Voice 5: to the property that we felt pressure on now that we know there is a process for water addressing

[2:26:30] Voice 5: the major water concern and it's the middle point between that and what we purchased and what we

[2:26:37] paid for so

[2:26:39] Voice 5: we are willing to give up some density so we thought meeting in the middle

[2:26:42] Voice 5: was considering our community thank

[2:26:45] Trustee Maude: you very much just to

[2:26:47] Voice 5: confirm that you have two buildings that

[2:26:50] Voice 5: are over or just one i

[2:26:53] Voice 8: haven't measured the one but it's getting pretty close okay yeah

[2:27:00] and if

[2:27:01] Voice 5: you're permitted in that zone an accessory dwelling unit so that you could

[2:27:11] Voice 5: okay yeah okay so

[2:27:12] Trustee Maude: we have a motion yeah

[2:27:14] Voice 5: so we have two motions to be able to accommodate

[2:27:18] Voice 5: um and actually i think there are these ones do we have to do these ones first

[2:27:22] Voice 5: yeah those are the two those are right okay and okay we'll do these and then if they don't

[2:27:30] Voice 5: fully cover everything then we can come back okay so and and maybe um let's just go ahead and do

[2:27:38] Voice 5: this first okay so that the north pender island local trust committee direct staff to amend draft

[2:27:42] Voice 5: bylaw number 224 to allow the following densities for the commercial two zone properties 1329

[2:27:48] Voice 5: mckinnon road is permitted 20 tourist accommodation units and 1333 mckinnon road is permitted seven

[2:27:53] Voice 5: tourist youth tourist accommodation units that's the first one they have to be done separately

[2:28:01] Voice 1: so

[2:28:02] Trustee Maude: second no discussion no question okay okay and

[2:28:07] Voice 5: that north pender island local trust committee

[2:28:08] Voice 5: direct staff to amend bylaw number 224 to amend commercial 2g zone to permit one tourist

[2:28:14] Voice 5: accommodation unit to a maximum floor area of 280 meters squared 3 000 square feet and which

[2:28:21] Voice 5: is not calculated in the total floor area of the tourist accommodation units that gets to be

[2:28:27] Voice 2: seconded

[2:28:27] Voice 2: thank

[2:28:28] Voice 5: you so that allows for the grandfathering to be documented from the bylaw and then i think we

[2:28:36] Voice 5: have to do the other one on the other page right to get the rest of those reductions because we

[2:28:39] Voice 5: haven't done the two 13 25 or 13 49. yeah so 13 25 they're happy at the three and the 13 49 seem

[2:28:47] Voice 5: happy with the eight proposed oh and that's so

[2:28:50] Voice 2: we can that's

[2:28:51] Voice 5: currently so no that's great thank you

[2:28:56] Voice 5: and i just want to say like thank you very much for working through that i know it's been a very

[2:29:00] Voice 5: up and down process and complicated and so but i really do feel that this is a way forward i also

[2:29:07] Voice 5: want to say that like as a general thing on the island like there is always the potential for

[2:29:13] Voice 5: people to rezone and ask for more density and separate project and that is something that we've

[2:29:17] Voice 5: talked with the owners as as they build out and build understanding in the neighborhood about what

[2:29:21] Voice 5: they're doing that they could come back and ask for increased density but then it would be a longer

[2:29:26] Voice 5: our conversation with understanding so

[2:29:28] Voice 1: next one

[2:29:34] Trustee Maude: thank

[2:29:34] Voice 5: you

[2:29:43] Voice 8: and

[2:29:53] Voice 5: i i do want to add a thank you to the folks at those 1325 in particular that took

[2:30:00] Voice 5: reduction because they took a greater reduction so that overall there was a lower the next item

[2:30:07] Voice 5: was the potential for waste transfer zoning for two portions of 3418 south otter bay road

[2:30:15] Voice 5: and those two properties the first one is the old batch plant from the gulf excavating site

[2:30:21] Voice 5: and the other one is the portion of the property that's in between the recycling the current

[2:30:27] Voice 5: recycling depot and the current waste transfer site so these two faculties last meeting there

[2:30:32] Voice 5: was talk of actually removing the waste transfer uses that were proposed for those two sites so

[2:30:38] Voice 5: i put that in table one here that third um column that outlines what's currently in bylaw 224

[2:30:47] Voice 5: and if the ltc wishes to remove waste transfer facility composting facility recycling and reuse

[2:30:55] Voice 5: use facility uses for those two zones um there's a drop motion there and the proposed zoning would

[2:31:01] Voice 5: look um like it does in column four and just to clarify the zoning for waste transfer uh facility

[2:31:10] Voice 5: for the current location that the bradettes are running that's still in the bylaw that would

[2:31:14] Voice 5: change that

[2:31:15] Voice 8: when when we had that discussion i thought that it was in that we came indicated

[2:31:24] Voice 8: It indicated that one of those two properties wouldn't actually be able to be was was the reason that it came up.

[2:31:32] Voice 5: Yeah, I think because the site wasn't big enough. Is that right?

[2:31:35] Voice 5: And I couldn't. I had not confirmed that

[2:31:38] Voice 8: I think it was.

[2:31:38] Voice 8: I think it was the 2c.

[2:31:41] Voice 5: Yeah, potentially it's

[2:31:43] Voice 8: not doesn't have the enough size to be used as a waste transfer station, because part of it is on the slope or something like that.

[2:31:52] Voice 8: yes yeah

[2:31:53] Voice 5: so they the the bradettes um had applied for a tup it was um way back in the archives of

[2:32:03] Voice 5: this particular challenge that they've been facing um and they had had a geotechnical survey done of

[2:32:11] Voice 5: that site and the upper slope of the site sort of the northwest part of it was not usable because

[2:32:20] Voice 5: the geotext survey came back saying that they had to move down toward where they currently are

[2:32:24] Voice 5: actually more on that end and there's a building there so it couldn't move that far down so that

[2:32:28] Voice 5: they could operate there still but it was a very narrow envelope in which they could operate so

[2:32:33] Voice 5: it's it is possible to use it the the issue that was raised last meeting i think actually it's a

[2:32:39] Voice 5: really good point and that is that like the still the current siting opportunity for that waste

[2:32:47] Voice 5: management required environmental surveys and we don't have those environmental surveys for

[2:32:52] Voice 5: these two properties in terms of

[2:32:54] Voice 5: operating on them and i think

[2:32:55] Voice 5: that's a really good point

[2:32:56] Voice 5: and it so i think the challenge we have the alternative pros and cons is that

[2:33:03] Voice 5: not having multiple sites zoned for waste management means that if there is a dispute

[2:33:08] Voice 5: between the current landowner and the operators on that site then we lose our waste our zoned waste

[2:33:15] Voice 5: management setting right like our actual operator connected but that's not really our dilemma it's

[2:33:21] Voice 5: like

[2:33:22] Voice 8: but would it not be required could we not require or could we not zone it with the requirement

[2:33:30] Voice 8: of no

[2:33:32] Voice 1: you couldn't put that technical

[2:33:33] Voice 8: before it can be used yeah

[2:33:37] Voice 5: it's really the rezoning

[2:33:38] Voice 5: application that would trigger those require those conditions to be met like this we can't do it

[2:33:43] Voice 5: it's welcome to dance yeah yeah and there

[2:33:51] Voice 5: may be requirements we would have to go through with the

[2:33:53] Voice 5: crd but i'm not exactly sure what those are so

[2:33:57] Trustee Maude: so the reality is is that if this takes place

[2:34:01] Trustee Maude: and so we remove that zoning the current operator loses his lease there's no other

[2:34:09] Trustee Maude: place so what

[2:34:09] Trustee Maude: the immediate one would trigger is probably TUP,

[2:34:12] Trustee Maude: get them on a new site.

[2:34:14] Voice 1: So

[2:34:15] Trustee Maude: it's more of a process,

[2:34:16] Voice 5: but

[2:34:17] Trustee Maude: maybe a more friendly process for the island.

[2:34:20] Voice 5: That's right.

[2:34:21] Trustee Maude: And

[2:34:21] Voice 5: frankly speaking,

[2:34:23] Voice 5: if for whatever reason the operator wasn't working

[2:34:26] Voice 5: on the current land that they're on,

[2:34:27] Voice 5: it's quite unlikely they'd be able to operate

[2:34:29] Voice 5: on these two places,

[2:34:30] Voice 5: given who's currently owning it now,

[2:34:31] Voice 5: the dynamics on that.

[2:34:33] Trustee Maude: So

[2:34:33] Voice 5: these two aren't going to solve

[2:34:35] Voice 5: that particular operator's problem.

[2:34:37] Trustee Maude: so what has written the motion

[2:34:40] Voice 5: yeah i think we go ahead and remove it because of the environmental

[2:34:43] Voice 5: survey all

[2:34:44] Voice 8: right so we want to move that sure that the north bender island the local trust

[2:34:50] Voice 8: committee directs staff to amend draft bylaw number 224 to rezone those portions of 3418

[2:34:56] Voice 8: south otter bay road that is outlined in column four table one the staff report dated march 11th

[2:35:02] Voice 8: 20 43. secondary

[2:35:04] Voice 5: any

[2:35:05] Trustee Maude: further discussion yeah

[2:35:08] Voice 5: that's so that'll trigger that to move over to

[2:35:10] Voice 5: call you've got it okay all right

[2:35:13] Trustee Maude: call question on paper and that carries the

[2:35:18] Voice 5: next item so

[2:35:19] Voice 3: can i just grab the square footage maximum for the follow-up

[2:35:24] Voice 3: that you talked about with respect to the tourist accommodation oh i didn't know that too

[2:35:29] Voice 3: you so

[2:35:30] Voice 5: the next item is the stairs back to the seat so in the land use bylaw there is a setback

[2:35:44] Voice 5: from the natural boundary of the seat and it is 7.5 meters yes and so there are certain exemptions

[2:35:55] Voice 5: from that setbacks where those structures could actually be located within that setback

[2:35:59] Voice 5: so with bylaw 224 as it's currently written stairs are not exempt from that

[2:36:07] Voice 5: setback meaning if

[2:36:08] Voice 5: somebody wanted to put stairs within the setback from the natural boundary of the sea they would

[2:36:13] Voice 5: have to go through a variance process um i understand there has that has certainly been

[2:36:19] Voice 5: a concern for multiple community members i should also mention if bylaw 224 is adopted as is where

[2:36:26] Voice 5: stairs are not exempt from the setback to the natural boundary of the sea if somebody currently

[2:36:32] Voice 5: has stairs and wants to rebuild those stairs they can't but they just can't increase the the offload

[2:36:39] Voice 5: stairs so protected under section 529 of the local government but i know it certainly is a contentious

[2:36:46] Voice 5: issues issue so i did put a draft motion there for um the ltc to direct staff to amend by-laws

[2:36:54] Voice 5: to do more to allow stairs to be exact from the setback this could also be an item that the ltc

[2:37:00] Voice 5: revisits if you um do a project on a marine or foreshore project of some some sort or do you

[2:37:10] Voice 5: want to take a look at amending your development permit areas down the road you could potentially

[2:37:16] Voice 5: include that so i'm going to leave that there for ltc's um consideration to um exact stairs

[2:37:25] Voice 5: so

[2:37:25] Trustee Maude: currently as of today they are accepted that

[2:37:29] Voice 5: they are in bylaw 103 they are accepted

[2:37:33] Trustee Maude: yeah the proposal

[2:37:34] Trustee Maude: is not to accept them that's right and

[2:37:38] Trustee Maude: so i don't know are you

[2:37:40] Voice 5: okay two on the

[2:37:41] Trustee Maude: same page on this

[2:37:42] Voice 5: no we're not these

[2:37:44] Voice 8: are the three sort of contentious

[2:37:47] Voice 8: community issues yeah stairs dogs yeah maximum for it okay

[2:37:52] Voice 8: so that's the yeah

[2:37:53] Voice 5: um so i sorry i don't know why this is i'm getting two different things from what the

[2:37:59] Voice 5: both of you just said yeah so currently if we don't do any motions stairs are exempt

[2:38:07] Voice 5: they are not exempt they

[2:38:08] Voice 1: are not exempt

[2:38:09] Voice 5: so let's just put that in common english currently as it

[2:38:13] Voice 5: is in the bylaw you cannot have

[2:38:16] Voice 5: stairs so bylaw 103 the one that we have right now if somebody

[2:38:21] Voice 5: wanted to build stairs they could okay it is exempt but it's the proposed bylaw 224 as it's

[2:38:27] Voice 5: written right now it's not okay so the current proposed bylaw says you can't have stairs if you

[2:38:34] Voice 5: want to upstairs you have to do a uh development variance it's not that you can never have stairs

[2:38:39] Voice 5: it's that you have to do a variance yeah okay so i like that

[2:38:45] Voice 5: yeah and i and i and i like it for a lot of different environmental reasons that i

[2:38:50] Voice 5: you know have talked about years but i'd like to understand why you don't

[2:38:56] Voice 8: partly and just add people's access for problems that they've bought right we've gone through this

[2:39:02] Voice 8: whole idea that as soon as something comes up that we're going to try to regulate there's going to be

[2:39:09] Voice 8: a big push to get as many sets of stairs down to to the to the water as possible and i don't

[2:39:17] Voice 8: really see the difference in in environmental impact because if i owned a piece of property

[2:39:25] Voice 8: where the beach is right there and i could get down to it i'm going to create a trail down

[2:39:32] Voice 8: without building stairs and likely more than one trail depending on what's going on and so

[2:39:38] Voice 8: i don't know that the that the i mean the argument can be made that the stairs funnel people to one

[2:39:46] Voice 8: spot down to the to the beach access to the beach right as opposed to multiple ways down

[2:39:52] Voice 8: and i

[2:39:54] Voice 8: don't know that that like the environmental argument really is very different

[2:40:02] Voice 8: you know you you i'll

[2:40:05] Voice 2: argue my own point yeah yeah no

[2:40:07] Trustee Maude: i'm trying

[2:40:08] Voice 8: to understand the

[2:40:09] Voice 8: the uh the discussion right like so yeah i don't see i don't see how removing stairs

[2:40:19] Voice 8: stops access and if anything quite possibly causes more erosion down there

[2:40:27] Voice 8: than a single set of stairs

[2:40:31] Voice 8: you

[2:40:33] Voice 5: want me to share do you have thoughts

[2:40:37] Trustee Maude: i'll remain neutral but but the thing is is that what i would suggest is that if we're here and

[2:40:44] Trustee Maude: we're here this might be one of the items we want to pull to have that big fulsome discussion that

[2:40:50] Trustee Maude: last hours versus like spending two minutes on something that's going

[2:40:55] Trustee Maude: to create friction

[2:41:09] Voice 2: yeah

[2:41:11] Voice 5: so it may be something we need to pull i think so so just to be clear

[2:41:16] Voice 5: whenever there's

[2:41:18] Voice 5: is a regulation that we're going to shift or change what people are going to do in the

[2:41:21] Voice 5: interim if they see that regulation we can't be you know that's not i can't even consider that

[2:41:26] Voice 5: because frankly people are going to do things they're going to do because they're going to

[2:41:30] Voice 5: be informed to whatever lesser degree so i i don't want to make an argument based on that but

[2:41:37] Voice 5: um yeah for me i think the issue of stairs has been a number of different arguments are being

[2:41:46] Voice 5: made in the community about like not having stairs i do hear what you're saying about access to water

[2:41:52] Voice 5: i think that there are situations on the island where there absolutely shouldn't be stairs

[2:41:57] Voice 5: because like the the degree of slope going down to the water is significant and like is that what

[2:42:06] Voice 5: we're really wanting to see like in real character when we're on the water because these islands are

[2:42:10] Voice 5: for when we're on the land or for when we're on the water so and like that has to be thought

[2:42:17] Voice 5: about holistically because we have some policies in our or some guidance in our ocp which talks

[2:42:23] Voice 5: about like having centralized docks in certain situations so that we actually minimize the

[2:42:29] Voice 5: waterfront impact you know we have some and and it's kind of related to that from my perspective

[2:42:34] Voice 5: so i think it's a larger conversation and we should dive into it more deeply um i don't know

[2:42:40] Voice 5: what that means like in terms of the land use bylaw because i'm not willing to pull it out and

[2:42:45] Voice 5: talk about it three years from now so but if it means delaying this whole conversation for another

[2:42:50] Voice 5: two months fine let's do that like or let's let's have it in our next meeting and like dig into it

[2:42:55] Voice 5: more deeply i don't want to be talking about this land use bylaw project with christmas right so

[2:43:01] Voice 5: like we have to have a compromise on what we're going to

[2:43:03] Voice 5: just need to say so

[2:43:04] Trustee Maude: panacea do you sort

[2:43:05] Trustee Maude: of have a hearing the conversation do you have a road forward that you wouldn't suggest

[2:43:11] Voice 5: well this is one of those items that can also be

[2:43:15] Voice 5: amended after the public hearing because you're not demanding user density this is a citing

[2:43:20] Voice 5: regulation so you could keep it in and if you hear a lot of opposition during the public hearing that

[2:43:26] Voice 5: could be something that the lgc demands afterwards so it's just something to keep in mind so

[2:43:32] Trustee Maude: so is

[2:43:33] Trustee Maude: there any way of highlighting if if we're keeping it in is it is it for so the public knows that it

[2:43:41] Trustee Maude: is an issue not locked in it is still under consideration because because we're reading

[2:43:47] Voice 9: bylaws and all that

[2:43:48] Trustee Maude: and the assumption of the

[2:43:49] Trustee Maude: public is that we're moving forward with this

[2:43:51] Voice 9: so is

[2:43:52] Trustee Maude: there some way that we can sort of flag and say look this is still

[2:43:54] Trustee Maude: is yeah yeah

[2:43:56] Voice 5: absolutely when we do our notice we can make sure that that's one of the items

[2:44:01] Voice 5: that we really want to hear from community members yeah and support and support okay

[2:44:05] Voice 5: so we just leave it here on both sides yeah

[2:44:08] Trustee Maude: but we make sure that this discussion is not done

[2:44:12] Trustee Maude: okay and

[2:44:13] Voice 5: i think we need to in our upcoming meetings make some time for us to like try to

[2:44:19] Voice 5: understand each other's arguments more deeply because we've heard from the community on both

[2:44:23] Voice 5: both sides more recently on one but i guess we've been talking like we hear waves because people

[2:44:29] Voice 5: respond negatively or positively to things and we need people to come into the public hearing and

[2:44:33] Voice 5: full scale like weigh in on all sides okay

[2:44:36] Trustee Maude: all right so next one

[2:44:39] Voice 5: the next one is with regards to docs so currently as the draft bylaw number 224

[2:44:48] Voice 5: is written to date uh the majority of the areas around north pender are now zone one three and

[2:44:56] Voice 5: water three is the zone that does not permit private docks those areas that currently have

[2:45:02] Voice 5: a private dock or where there's a current application in with in with the province for a

[2:45:08] Voice 5: lease those areas are zone water one so they would be permitted private docks we've heard a lot of

[2:45:16] Voice 5: letters um in opposition of this potential zoning and so there is again another draft motion the lgc

[2:45:23] Voice 5: could consider is to actually then rezone all those water three areas back to water one

[2:45:30] Voice 5: and please ignore the boarding

[2:45:32] Voice 5: okay

[2:45:33] Voice 2: yeah so

[2:45:38] Voice 5: this is the same issue for me and i think if we leave it in it'll instigate

[2:45:42] Voice 5: My response, if we take it out, this is a little bit of the challenge we've had in the last couple of years, just as an FYI, on this bylaw, is we have tended to put things in that were a little bit more controversial to get feedback, right?

[2:45:58] Voice 5: Because then there's some text that people can actually respond to, as opposed to not knowing if she might get it.

[2:46:06] Voice 5: just this is one of those items that could be deemed as changing density in you so this is

[2:46:11] Voice 5: one that you could not amend after public hearing so this is something that the ltc wants to go into

[2:46:17] Voice 5: the public hearing with that final version of so i don't understand that completely so you can take

[2:46:25] Voice 5: a piece of um you can take a bylaw into public hearing and if the public is like hell no then

[2:46:32] Voice 5: you basically lose the entire bylaw as opposed to being able to slice out a piece of it you would

[2:46:38] Voice 5: have to go you would have to amend the bylaw and then have a second public hearing okay yeah so

[2:46:42] Voice 5: that's where it would be yeah yeah absolutely that

[2:46:46] Voice 3: happens a lot in like urban development settings

[2:46:49] Voice 3: where a developer will come with a plan they'll hear that the public hearing then they'll send

[2:46:54] Voice 3: the developer back with the lower density for example or a different amenity than they would

[2:47:00] Voice 3: triggering other

[2:47:00] Voice 3: public care because

[2:47:01] Voice 5: the challenge with this one is similar to the

[2:47:04] Voice 5: the prior one they're quite related actually in many ways um and the the problem that we have is

[2:47:10] Voice 5: that we have current information like current like sort of rallying around no no to this but like

[2:47:18] Voice 5: two years ago we had a bigger sort of contingent of people who were like yes and that's why it's

[2:47:23] Voice 5: in there right so i'm a little bit in the table what to do about this

[2:47:26] Voice 5: other than have two public

[2:47:27] Voice 5: here now

[2:47:28] Trustee Maude: is the potential for us to move that discussion to next friday for our next meeting

[2:47:35] Trustee Maude: where we're you know we seem to have some room on the agenda timing-wise

[2:47:40] Trustee Maude: to have a moment to gather some more thoughts because then we have some community participation

[2:47:48] Trustee Maude: and and we could perhaps put it to bed just

[2:47:51] Voice 3: another thought with respect to dogs there is

[2:47:53] Voice 3: a moratorium on docs right now anyway so it's perhaps not as pressing to resolve uh in the

[2:48:00] Voice 3: near term as uh your question around stairs because right now and probably into the foreseeable future

[2:48:08] Voice 3: there's there's a provincial restriction on docs anyway so that would you could put it on your

[2:48:14] Voice 3: project that might be one that you could take more time because

[2:48:18] Voice 2: i don't see that moratorium

[2:48:20] Voice 3: are

[2:48:20] Voice 2: moving anytime soon i mean there's there's

[2:48:24] Voice 8: some stuff i'd like to understand about how legal

[2:48:28] Voice 8: non-conforming applies to docs if we were if it was to move ahead and everybody's doc becomes

[2:48:36] Voice 8: legal non-conforming and how the definition like what the definition of that is for a rebuild so

[2:48:41] Voice 5: they would actually become legal non-conforming stated protein the water one zoning so it would

[2:48:46] Voice 5: they would still be permitted their private dock in that zone there are two different zones so

[2:48:52] Trustee Maude: where are you sitting on this debbie sorry i

[2:48:55] Voice 8: just want to make sure i

[2:48:56] Voice 8: think my where the rest of my

[2:49:00] Voice 8: thought is going to go with it has to do with something unrelated to this okay so so

[2:49:07] Voice 5: from the

[2:49:08] Voice 5: perspective of the moratorium on docks like you know this is one of those areas where like we as

[2:49:16] Voice 5: So there's a gray line here, right, around docks, like docks are regulated by the province, but the area on which docks sit are our terrain, right? And so it's a dilemma, like, you know, do we zone a certain thing so that we ensure that the ecological values that we care about on the foreshore are protected?

[2:49:38] Voice 5: or that you know but then it creates two layers of government you know like it's a dilemma for me

[2:49:43] Voice 5: i think that the way the province is going we'll see what happens with that but the way the

[2:49:49] Voice 5: province is going i think they're going to be hard people are frank they're going to be hard

[2:49:52] Voice 5: pressed to get another dog like the way i see things unfolding with the province and so i would

[2:49:57] Voice 5: rather that the province take the flag for that and then trust frankly i mean honestly like like

[2:50:02] Voice 9: Like, it's like,

[2:50:03] Voice 5: why start

[2:50:05] Voice 5: a fight about something that is really the province's, you know, area to fight about right now?

[2:50:10] Voice 5: If the

[2:50:10] Voice 5: province comes back and says, you know, we're going to have dogs everywhere, then I think we have to revisit it quite firmly.

[2:50:15] Voice 5: Because I think it becomes an issue of, like, we suddenly take up the foreshore and, like, interrupt things.

[2:50:21] Voice 5: There's an ecological question there that we have to answer.

[2:50:24] Voice 3: The province wouldn't have come to that decision to put a moratorium on dogs lightly.

[2:50:29] Voice 3: no and

[2:50:29] Voice 3: so for them to pull back

[2:50:31] Voice 3: on that would not be taken away

[2:50:33] Voice 5: yeah so i think we could go

[2:50:35] Voice 5: ahead and make this motion to remove dogs from here for the simplicity of just not having a

[2:50:39] Voice 5: freaking dog conversation again um and in in the context of like it's it's not even going to be a

[2:50:45] Voice 5: conversation okay

[2:50:47] Voice 3: so do you want me to go back to your future projects list no

[2:50:52] Voice 5: no i think actually

[2:50:54] Voice 5: Actually, what we do is we just move off of

[2:50:56] Voice 5: it until we know what happens with the province.

[2:51:00] Voice 5: And when the province makes a decision one way or the other, then we'll kind of go.

[2:51:04] Voice 8: Revisit it up.

[2:51:05] Voice 8: Does the federal

[2:51:06] Voice 8: not also weigh into that?

[2:51:09] Voice 5: The province is the regulatory authority, I think.

[2:51:11] Voice 5: And then there's some transportation guideline related things.

[2:51:15] Voice 5: So

[2:51:15] Voice 3: they would need to need federal guidelines around not obstructing

[2:51:19] Voice 5: traffic

[2:51:20] Voice 3: way, et cetera.

[2:51:21] Voice 3: Those would be federal guidelines.

[2:51:22] Voice 3: the provincial authority would be uh issuing tenure to allow them to cite that structure

[2:51:30] Voice 3: in a provincial waterway and i think

[2:51:33] Voice 3: our authority is around zoning yeah

[2:51:35] Voice 5: and i think the dfo um

[2:51:37] Voice 5: i think it's dfo i think the dfo also has authority over that health and welfare orca or

[2:51:44] Voice 5: other type you know interrelated issues of orca um and that is the issue that is most i think

[2:51:52] Voice 5: concern to people here is that the sanctuary zones are that the other areas don't suddenly become

[2:51:56] Voice 5: full of docks in ways that aren't particularly awesome so

[2:51:59] Voice 8: and who who navigates the indigenous

[2:52:02] Voice 8: aspects of that's why the prompt has

[2:52:04] Voice 5: gone is it the province yeah

[2:52:06] Voice 5: it doesn't drift

[2:52:07] Voice 5: all

[2:52:07] Voice 8: right

[2:52:11] Voice 5: that's

[2:52:13] Voice 8: the north kinder island local trust committee direct staff to amend

[2:52:16] Voice 8: and graph island number two to four to rezone to quote oh yeah boarding channels to rezone

[2:52:24] Voice 8: the area around north bender to be rezoned from water through zone to the water one zone

[2:52:28] Voice 8: okay second

[2:52:29] Trustee Maude: second any discussion well i

[2:52:33] Voice 5: think i think that just got the last point of discussion

[2:52:35] Voice 5: i would say is like the last thing i personally want to see is a bunch of dogs around this island

[2:52:40] Voice 5: um because i do think that there is a cumulative impact of having a bunch of dogs everywhere

[2:52:45] Voice 5: and i think but because the province is already kind of on that i just don't think we need to

[2:52:49] Voice 5: deal with it right now

[2:52:50] Trustee Maude: professional affairs that carries and now here's the easy one oh

[2:52:56] Voice 5: yeah this

[2:52:57] Voice 5: one yeah

[2:52:58] Voice 8: well yeah there's lots of like lots of questions should

[2:53:03] Voice 5: i do it may just be a discussion

[2:53:06] Voice 5: with the ltc at this point but that's one more area but the one point i do want to make is that

[2:53:12] Voice 5: there is discussions or i've mentioned to a number of i think both trustees here that could

[2:53:17] Voice 5: potentially be pulled out and tied into a future housing project specifically if you want to take

[2:53:24] Voice 5: a look at distributing floor area so that's certainly an option and you can always keep it in

[2:53:30] Voice 5: and then tweak it down the road too for our housing project i have included three options

[2:53:36] Voice 5: for the LTC to consider as well but I've attached all the proposed maximum floor areas as you're

[2:53:43] Voice 5: drafting 224. The first option would be to either increase or decrease each plot area in terms of

[2:53:54] Voice 5: either increase or decrease decreasing their maximum floor area. The second option is just to

[2:54:00] Voice 5: have a blanket maximum floor area of all houses for those particular zones of 35 minute square

[2:54:08] Voice 5: feet and the third option is to just remove the maximum floor area and tour area from this

[2:54:16] Voice 5: project and then potentially tie it into a future housing project do we know

[2:54:25] Voice 8: do we actually know how many residences are affected by a change like this is there a way

[2:54:34] Voice 8: i think

[2:54:35] Voice 5: i did that calculation a few years ago i could pretend i can hunt it down

[2:54:39] Voice 5: you know i don't have it at my fingertips i can try to find it yeah yeah so

[2:54:45] Trustee Maude: i think it's

[2:54:47] Trustee Maude: does anybody have a preferred path here i

[2:54:50] Voice 5: have some suggestions okay

[2:54:51] Trustee Maude: so um

[2:54:55] Voice 5: and so i talked with

[2:54:57] Voice 5: um i took issue a little bit with the um being a resident of the magic lake homeowners association

[2:55:04] Voice 5: i took issue with the letter from bob colson um and had a really good talk with him actually

[2:55:09] Voice 5: this week about it and uh just about like what concerns there are or not because the letter that

[2:55:16] Voice 5: that he had sent in didn't say any reasoning

[2:55:18] Voice 5: for why they weren't.

[2:55:21] Voice 5: I think the statement there was something about like

[2:55:24] Voice 5: to not have any residential floor area maximums

[2:55:29] Voice 5: and to maintain with the 25% coverage,

[2:55:32] Voice 5: something to that degree,

[2:55:33] Voice 5: but there was no reasoning attached to it.

[2:55:36] Voice 5: And so, but there has been lots of reasoning attached

[2:55:39] Voice 5: to other both for and against like folks who have weighed in.

[2:55:43] Voice 5: so um i think that the best one i've seen is from art actually where um we could go ahead and um

[2:55:53] Voice 5: make uh like a 3 000 square foot minimum which would really like right now it's 25 i think yes

[2:56:03] Voice 5: yeah so make a 3,000 square foot minimum um

[2:56:07] Voice 9: and

[2:56:08] Voice 5: then um allow that sort of 3,000

[2:56:11] Voice 5: 3,500 4,000 so up everything 500 and by doing that you're and then pull it into a housing

[2:56:18] Voice 5: project so we're set we're we're tamping down a little bit on the house size right now so that

[2:56:25] Voice 5: there's no because I think a housing project is going to take us a couple years and I'm worried

[2:56:29] Voice 5: about what could be built here in a couple years for sure so

[2:56:31] Voice 5: i and right now if you had a magic

[2:56:35] Voice 5: league like i have a 0.6 acre plot um and 25 coverage with like the maximum height building

[2:56:42] Voice 5: like i could build quite a significant size building and really tick up all my neighbors

[2:56:46] Voice 5: and jack up the house prices in all the areas so i think there's a lot of different dimensions to

[2:56:51] Voice 5: this that fit into a healthy project but i'm uncomfortable leaving it at the 25 right now

[2:56:56] Voice 5: so even if we pull it down to some cap that's a little bit more expansive than our current but

[2:57:03] Voice 5: bring it into the discussion of housing and then we can talk about are those the right ones get

[2:57:07] Voice 5: more into the guts of it in detail and it may be an upset maybe it downs it maybe it splits it like

[2:57:13] Voice 5: i think there's a lot of different options we have but i'm uncomfortable leaving it at the default

[2:57:18] Voice 5: so

[2:57:19] Trustee Maude: you're so you're like option two i

[2:57:22] Voice 5: like option one with changing the maximums to a higher level

[2:57:27] Voice 5: than they currently are because the

[2:57:28] Voice 5: some of the feedback that we've had is that um from people

[2:57:31] Voice 5: who are opposed to this is that we're worried that their house is completely non-performing

[2:57:36] Voice 5: even though we have language in here to try and ensure that doesn't happen and so if we can

[2:57:41] Voice 5: you know ease that fear by increasing the limits to to a level that aren't

[2:57:47] Voice 8: but then i

[2:57:47] Voice 8: guess that's where i'm wondering what what those

[2:57:49] Voice 8: differences become right like what what what are

[2:57:52] Voice 8: we really affecting at the end of the day for people so

[2:57:56] Voice 5: potentially in the rural residential

[2:57:59] Voice 5: zones right now for properties that are under one acre it's 216 properties that could be affected

[2:58:07] Voice 5: and then in terms of 216 properties that are going to be over 3 000 that so 216 properties

[2:58:15] Voice 5: are vacant right now yeah um so as a total of sorry 271 properties this could be affecting

[2:58:25] Voice 5: and in the rural zone potentially

[2:58:26] Voice 8: and now i think at the end of the day is where

[2:58:30] Voice 8: why people are taking issue with it right is that it affects so many homes and not understanding

[2:58:37] Voice 8: what the ramifications of of the legal non-conforming no

[2:58:42] Voice 5: but that's not legal

[2:58:43] Voice 5: leave those are new buildings that she's talking about so no these are so what we did

[2:58:48] Voice 5: was we did

[2:58:49] Voice 5: a calculation on how many lots are very much right now it's 260

[2:58:54] Voice 7: 200

[2:58:55] Voice 5: all right 200 sir all

[2:58:57] Voice 5: together in the rural residential zone it's 271 okay okay

[2:59:02] Voice 8: i'm i'm more i'm i'm not as worried

[2:59:08] Voice 8: about people that haven't built out yeah it's those who have it's the people that haven't built

[2:59:13] Voice 8: and because that's those are the people that were hearing the feedback right yeah it's the people

[2:59:17] Voice 8: whose homes who they don't know what is is going to happen if they ever have an issue and and i can

[2:59:24] Voice 8: say with fair certainty if there is an issue with somebody's home they are losing their whole home

[2:59:33] Voice 8: right it

[2:59:35] Voice 9: just

[2:59:35] Voice 8: is the fact of being on a small island and having the response times and stuff

[2:59:39] Voice 8: that we have when a fire department gets there they do a hell of a job yeah but they really

[2:59:46] Voice 8: but get there to stop it from spreading past the initial structure there's the odd one where

[2:59:52] Voice 8: they're able to stop it but so

[2:59:55] Voice 5: in the bylaw 224 right now we do have this disclaimer that kind of

[3:00:00] Voice 5: of that so if you have a house that's 5 000 square feet and regulations say you can only have a house

[3:00:06] Voice 5: of 2 500 square feet if that house were to burn down you'd be able to then still rebuild to the

[3:00:11] Voice 5: 5 000 square feet you don't have to comply with the 2500.

[3:00:15] Voice 7: so these new regulations

[3:00:16] Voice 5: these maximum

[3:00:17] Voice 5: four area regulations would only comply to lots that are there essentially but

[3:00:23] Voice 8: i think that if

[3:00:24] Voice 8: we're going to move something like that forward we need to first find a way to educate the people

[3:00:31] Voice 8: that are going to be affected about why they're going to be okay afterwards because when i because

[3:00:38] Voice 8: i know for myself like trying to dig into legal non-conforming and try to understand what that

[3:00:44] Voice 8: actually means and when i look at the definitions that are provided through simple google search or

[3:00:50] Voice 8: whatever the basically it's telling me that i'm not going to be able to rebuild my house when it

[3:00:56] Voice 8: burns down and i wouldn't i can't imagine that anybody would be okay with that if they happen

[3:01:01] Voice 8: to be in a position of their house being larger than what we're saying it's going to be so that

[3:01:06] Voice 8: that sort of is why i wanted to push this to not not put it into a housing project down the road

[3:01:14] Voice 8: and have us still dealing with it three years from now but just if there was a way to as even

[3:01:20] Voice 8: even use the public meeting that comes up for the rest of this bylaw to be able to have an

[3:01:27] Voice 8: educational component to it to say that this is going to come back up shortly and we want to be

[3:01:33] Voice 8: able to address it then just

[3:01:37] Voice 5: don't want to interrupt no

[3:01:38] Voice 1: go okay

[3:01:40] Voice 5: so um so this issue came up right away

[3:01:47] Voice 5: when we first started talking about residential house size and that's why we have the clause we

[3:01:51] Voice 5: worked with stop to and like really thought through like what would it be to ensure that

[3:01:56] Voice 5: that doesn't happen because that was never the intent that somebody burns the house brings down

[3:02:00] Voice 5: and then they have to build a smaller house like that's never the intent so and equally saying that

[3:02:05] Voice 5: even putting a maximum house size in is not saying you can't build a bigger house right well all it's

[3:02:11] Voice 5: saying is that if you want to build a bigger house you have to come for a variance permit

[3:02:14] Voice 5: because of the multitude of reasons why smaller houses are good in our community if you differ

[3:02:20] Voice 5: then you just have to show how you're being respectful of the values totally i don't disagree

[3:02:24] Voice 2: yeah

[3:02:25] Voice 5: yeah so the legal non-conforming issue i agree with you that we need to do an education

[3:02:29] Voice 5: and maybe what we can do is we can um you know i do think it would be helpful to shift the

[3:02:34] Voice 5: maximum house sizes up in 500 square feet at least because i think that's going to be some

[3:02:40] Voice 5: of the concerns i've heard about people living on one floor level people having like there's a

[3:02:45] Voice 2: a number

[3:02:46] Voice 5: of different offices and home like there's studios there's a bunch of different

[3:02:50] Voice 5: kinds of pieces that people have named and i think they're fair so and that would give us a little

[3:02:55] Voice 5: more wiggle room as we start to move towards a housing project and think this through a little

[3:02:59] Voice 5: bit more in other ways but i think that the legal non-conforming piece is in there right now like

[3:03:06] Voice 5: we already have a clause that deals with the issue so the education point i think what we should do

[3:03:12] Voice 5: is we should pass another motion today shift these so they're bigger pass an additional motion that

[3:03:18] Voice 5: directs staff to produce some resources for education around the non-conforming and that

[3:03:23] Voice 5: we schedule like chunks of our every meeting to like deal with that as we go forward because we

[3:03:29] Voice 5: have how long is it going to take to go through everything from now until the bylaws passed if

[3:03:34] Voice 5: nothing changed it's like

[3:03:37] Voice 5: six months right yeah so we have six months a window to educate people

[3:03:42] Voice 5: before we would fully pass these bottles anyway and in that six months we can help educate people

[3:03:47] Voice 5: about what it means to be legal non-conforming and if something like in the worst case scenario

[3:03:52] Voice 5: something doesn't work well in that moment then we we pull back the bylaws and we go into a second

[3:03:58] Voice 5: public hearing and we remove it i

[3:04:00] Voice 8: just don't i don't want to stop the whole rest of what this

[3:04:03] Voice 8: this project is based on this one item, right?

[3:04:08] Voice 8: Like the Kirkwoods don't want to revisit this whole,

[3:04:14] Voice 3: like nobody wants

[3:04:15] Voice 8: to revisit what this stuff is

[3:04:16] Voice 8: just because of that.

[3:04:18] Voice 8: Basically what we're coming down to is this one issue.

[3:04:21] Voice 8: So that's why I'm trying to

[3:04:21] Voice 8: figure out how.

[3:04:23] Voice 5: But the problem is, I think if you pull it out right now,

[3:04:25] Voice 5: it's out for like.

[3:04:28] Voice 8: Well, that's why I understood it to be able to be shifted

[3:04:32] Voice 8: it in 229 because 229 and 223 are going to take considerably longer to work their way through

[3:04:39] Voice 8: because of

[3:04:40] Voice 8: the changes in the ocp and stuff like that that has to happen at the same time

[3:04:44] Voice 8: you

[3:04:45] Voice 5: could potentially pull in 229 have those we'll have the one public hearing and then after the

[3:04:51] Voice 5: public hearing if you hear that oh gosh no that this isn't right then you can make amendments to

[3:04:56] Voice 5: So 229, well, 224, 223, so continue on.

[3:04:59] Voice 5: So that I'm willing to go for.

[3:05:01] Voice 5: So if we pull this into, and I think we do need to make a change now to the square footage,

[3:05:07] Voice 5: but pull it into 229, I don't know when all the motions need to happen for all that to happen.

[3:05:13] Voice 5: But if that, because then what I'm trying to avoid is like,

[3:05:18] Voice 5: if we go for one public hearing and we need to do something different, great.

[3:05:23] Voice 5: But let's not anticipate that we have to do something different.

[3:05:26] Voice 5: so but this probably is the smoothest way to continue moving on all other fronts

[3:05:31] Voice 5: so can you explain to me what those motions look like so thinking of the draft the finals being

[3:05:38] Voice 5: draft for yeah is it could be pretty okay easy to do we can just say i have option one and you

[3:05:44] Voice 5: can just say so maybe the first one would be to remove maximum floor area total floor area

[3:05:53] Voice 5: of regulations from bylaw 224 and move it to 229 that'd be the first one let's do that okay okay

[3:06:03] Voice 5: so that the north london island local trust committee directs staff to

[3:06:08] Voice 5: remove the maximum floor area and total floor area regulations i'm going to be just because

[3:06:15] Voice 5: we have a minute taker listening yeah for the rural residential one rural residential two

[3:06:21] Voice 5: rural rural comprehensive one rural comprehensive two and egg zones okay from bylaw 224 to 229

[3:06:33] Trustee Maude: so that's moved seconded no discussion all the questions all in favor done okay second motion

[3:06:39] Voice 5: all you need to do in option one is just change 224 to 229 and and

[3:06:46] Trustee Maude: then the numbers

[3:06:47] Voice 5: yeah and it

[3:06:48] Voice 5: if my understand i know them in square feet not meters that list is

[3:06:52] Voice 5: square feet okay okay so and

[3:06:54] Voice 5: my understanding is currently the square feet are twenty five hundred three thousand no twenty five

[3:06:59] Voice 5: hundred thirty

[3:07:00] Voice 5: five hundred and forty five hundred twenty five hundred three thousand thirty five

[3:07:03] Voice 5: hundred so that's five so twenty five hundred okay so okay can i go ahead okay so the north

[3:07:11] Voice 5: Peter Allen across community direct staff to amend draft bylaw number 29 right to increase

[3:07:18] Voice 5: the maximum chorea for the rural residential line we're residential to a rural comprehensive

[3:07:22] Voice 5: one real comprehensive tube and our agricultural zones to uh 3 000 square feet for lots less than

[3:07:31] Voice 5: 0.4 hectare wow that was a unit except one acre um 3 500 square feet for those 0.4 hectares

[3:07:42] Voice 5: to less than 1.2 hectares and or what am i at sorry that was 3 500 4 000 square feet

[3:07:53] Voice 5: for those 1.2 hectare or greater that's right yeah

[3:08:01] Voice 1: discussion okay

[3:08:02] Voice 5: so for me that that main shift is there is a lot of conversation that we need

[3:08:07] Voice 5: to have on

[3:08:08] Voice 5: housing and i think we do need to discuss housing more deeply but that gives us

[3:08:11] Voice 5: a little bit of space to not have too many people like feel that they're pinched on supplies right

[3:08:17] Voice 5: now so nothing everybody's going

[3:08:20] Voice 5: around building a 400 square foot house right now anyway okay

[3:08:23] Voice 5: okay question

[3:08:25] Trustee Maude: all in favor that carries so now we pop up to the top yeah

[3:08:29] Voice 5: so that all the uh

[3:08:32] Voice 5: record or the amendments are made unless there's any other cltc questions did we

[3:08:41] Voice 2: could

[3:08:42] Voice 8: we adjust our wisdom is the boat storage language adjusted for the for the property

[3:08:53] Voice 5: it depends what the ltc wanted to do with that so currently the zone lacks covered boat storage

[3:09:00] Voice 5: and accessory buildings and structures the intention for that zone historically has always

[3:09:06] Voice 5: been boat storage it hasn't

[3:09:07] Voice 5: been to allow other uses so that made the ltc may want to consider

[3:09:11] Voice 5: the applicant actually going for rezoning to allow these additional uses because i don't know

[3:09:17] Voice 5: if there would be a community benefit of some sort for them to allow these additional accessories

[3:09:22] Voice 5: week something else he needs to consider but

[3:09:25] Voice 8: well i mean to me like i can store my tractor

[3:09:30] Voice 8: and

[3:09:30] Voice 5: i

[3:09:32] Voice 8: can work on my tractor if my tractor breaks down right if i

[3:09:36] Voice 8: you're storing a boat and your boat needs repair or something you need to be able to repair

[3:09:42] Voice 8: where you

[3:09:43] Voice 5: are right yeah they can repair their own boat it's when it becomes a commercial

[3:09:46] Voice 5: commercial

[3:09:47] Voice 8: operation but

[3:09:48] Voice 8: they've had they've already it's we've already gotten into an issue

[3:09:54] Voice 8: with the wording of what it is where where bylaw has gone and said this word only means you at one

[3:10:05] Voice 8: point they weren't even going to be allowed to have a power pole in there to run an extension

[3:10:09] Voice 8: to a vote is it and this is this is sort of is a bigger issue for me around how how it will

[3:10:20] Voice 8: interpretation right we are writing bylaws that leave a very loose interpretation or

[3:10:30] Voice 8: yeah it ends up becoming a loose interpretation that that is enforced by one person's opinion

[3:10:37] Voice 8: at the end of the day

[3:10:38] Voice 1: and

[3:10:40] Voice 8: and i and that becomes a problem because you start to see

[3:10:44] Voice 8: these issues and they have popped up in the community quite a few times now where the

[3:10:51] Voice 8: there's a specific word that causes a whole pile of conflict and if we have the ability at the

[3:11:00] Voice 8: beginning to adjust it so that it is better defines what we're actually trying to accomplish

[3:11:06] Voice 8: where we're actually trying to approve i think we need to do that before so

[3:11:14] Voice 5: i guess one of the

[3:11:15] Voice 5: this is a use issue so it can't be changed you know and again even if you add accessory and

[3:11:21] Voice 5: accessory uses is um a commercial boats um mechanic use accessory to boat storage not necessarily

[3:11:32] Voice 5: necessarily so so I think you know yeah I

[3:11:36] Voice 5: just wanted to be able to I get

[3:11:40] Voice 8: it I just it seems

[3:11:42] Voice 8: frustrating to me that we would zone a piece of property to allow part of a business to be run on

[3:11:50] Voice 8: it

[3:11:50] Voice 5: is the intention for is that would the LTC like to support a business run on that piece of

[3:11:56] Voice 5: property chair could we make sure that the community members we're

[3:12:03] Trustee Maude: just we're hearing

[3:12:04] Trustee Maude: voices for this yeah

[3:12:06] Voice 1: yes right like

[3:12:07] Voice 8: yeah i don't i don't i don't know how we yeah i just i just

[3:12:11] Voice 8: know that it has already been addressed as a

[3:12:14] Voice 5: future problem

[3:12:15] Voice 8: before we're even there so so

[3:12:19] Voice 5: i guess my reluctance to get into the other uses right now is because i don't have a sense of like

[3:12:25] Voice 5: like the larger conversation around the other uses that's my reluctance so

[3:12:30] Voice 5: it's not that I

[3:12:32] Voice 5: don't think that they should be done and the from the rezoning perspective it's like there's all

[3:12:41] Voice 5: these dilemmas for that property it's got a long history too like um that particular zoning that

[3:12:46] Voice 5: was on there and some of that has been repaired like this not always to everybody's satisfaction

[3:12:51] Voice 5: section but some of it is repaired um and so but i i feel like if we can deal with our model fee

[3:13:00] Voice 5: bylaw issue which is related to the cost of rezoning and we can like remedy that in our

[3:13:05] Voice 5: community to be reasonable then i kind of feel like this might be a narrow kind of rezoning move

[3:13:13] Voice 5: to add uses to it because i do think that there are multiple neighbors in there that like and

[3:13:19] Voice 5: and business uses, and I don't know, I just, I'm reluctant to add additional uses without

[3:13:24] Voice 5: really thinking through what the implications are, because they also potentially will. Okay,

[3:13:30] Voice 5: so I guess this is a question, obviously, it's going on longer than, you know, the time we have

[3:13:35] Voice 5: here to really think it through. Is this something that can be added into the additional, like 229?

[3:13:41] Voice 5: Can it be in 229? Or does it have to be in?

[3:13:46] Voice 5: we do have i know and here i'm wondering if it's worth asking for what the what they're

[3:13:51] Voice 5: thinking of doing or what they're wanting the problem isn't that i believe tom okay like so

[3:13:57] Voice 5: that's not i'm clear what they want but

[3:13:59] Voice 2: yes you can't move it into 229

[3:14:01] Voice 5: okay so if we move it into

[3:14:02] Voice 5: 229 and add the additional uses i don't want to put every use for every industrial property on it

[3:14:07] Voice 5: but if we put the uses for commercial boat like and i can't remember off the top of my head what

[3:14:13] Voice 5: that specific item is my list here so what we can do is keep the zoning as in in file 2g4 and then

[3:14:22] Voice 5: 229 add an additional site specific use that would allow you said um like boat mechanics or boat

[3:14:31] Voice 5: what's the

[3:14:32] Voice 3: no

[3:14:33] Voice 5: amount of maintenance commercial building commercial boat and and by putting it

[3:14:41] Voice 5: into the 229 then it allows the same situation because i think

[3:14:45] Voice 5: there are people that are not

[3:14:46] Voice 5: so excited about that and it allows it to be in this like parallel track but still get the

[3:14:51] Voice 5: other pieces done because

[3:14:52] Trustee Maude: we want to get

[3:14:52] Voice 5: that other piece done so

[3:14:55] Trustee Maude: but if it's in 229

[3:14:57] Voice 5: and it's

[3:14:58] Trustee Maude: decided to pull it

[3:14:59] Voice 5: does that

[3:15:00] Voice 5: trigger

[3:15:01] Trustee Maude: a restart because it's wrong that's right it

[3:15:04] Trustee Maude: would be a

[3:15:05] Voice 5: of public hearing because it's because

[3:15:07] Voice 5: that's why i have to put it into tonight because it's not

[3:15:10] Voice 8: a density issue could it be adjusted down after public after public consultation adjusted down

[3:15:18] Voice 5: in what way could

[3:15:20] Voice 8: it be the use of being adjusted no

[3:15:22] Voice 5: i mean uses if you're making any changes to the

[3:15:26] Voice 5: use that would trigger and public hearing any change to use in density yeah it's really tricky

[3:15:32] Voice 5: yes that's the issue so i think we like from my perspective it's an issue where there's not

[3:15:38] Voice 5: and it's not that i'm disagreeing i just think that it's an issue where there's

[3:15:42] Voice 5: like feedback may go may cause a lot of tension in that area and so i think that it's safer to

[3:15:50] Voice 5: put it into due time and like the worst case is it's in there it's great everybody loves it

[3:15:56] Voice 5: and we like fridges and off we go so but it's in there as opposed to not being in there at all

[3:16:05] Voice 5: so if we put it in 224 and a bunch of public at our rate then it derails

[3:16:10] Voice 5: so what

[3:16:11] Voice 1: do we need

[3:16:11] Voice 5: to do to get it into two um a motion would be to direct staff to amend

[3:16:20] Voice 5: amend bylaw 229 to allow commercial boat maintenance on what's the address 4606 razor

[3:16:31] Voice 5: point roads for that portion the 4606 razor point road that's zoned general industrial

[3:16:40] Voice 5: oh my god i can't remember all that i can let you okay so and while you're writing that down

[3:16:48] Voice 5: can i just get a clarification if the original 1.5 meter elevation boundary for building got put

[3:16:57] Voice 5: in our new violin i can't remember yes it is thank you i just couldn't remember and i couldn't locate

[3:17:01] Voice 5: it okay because that was literally when i looked back in my notes it was like one of the first

[3:17:05] Voice 5: I was like, if this doesn't get to

[3:17:08] Voice 1: me, I don't know.

[3:17:10] Voice 5: Okay.

[3:17:13] Voice 5: So then this is it.

[3:17:16] Voice 5: The definition of farms?

[3:17:18] Voice 5: Oh, that hasn't been dealt with.

[3:17:20] Voice 5: Did I not get into that?

[3:17:22] Voice 1: And

[3:17:23] Voice 5: the inconsistencies in the bylaw with respect to agritourism.

[3:17:36] Voice 5: so i think we're gonna have to move this conversation to the 17th i don't think we

[3:17:41] Voice 5: can finish it today

[3:17:42] Trustee Maude: oh my friend's gone oh

[3:17:44] Voice 5: okay i'm

[3:17:45] Trustee Maude: here for another 400 so

[3:17:46] Voice 5: sorry about that

[3:17:51] Voice 5: okay

[3:17:52] Trustee Maude: so we got another hour

[3:17:53] Voice 5: so just to be clear though on this potential motion that you're going

[3:17:58] Voice 5: to consider for um the commercial vote maintenance is that if the public committee members say that

[3:18:06] Voice 5: they object to it and you do remove that use that you would then be going through the cost of a

[3:18:11] Voice 5: second public hearing and the ldc is willing to bear it i promise i i mean we're already willing

[3:18:17] Voice 5: to bear it on the house lines front so frankly i think it's i i think it could be a contentious

[3:18:25] Voice 5: issue and I don't want to put it in the 224 because it could essentially do that so I think

[3:18:30] Voice 1: that's not okay and I think I've

[3:18:39] Voice 5: sent it to everybody there

[3:18:43] Voice 1: sorry should be

[3:18:44] Voice 1: in your emails okay

[3:18:45] Voice 5: thank

[3:18:48] Voice 2: you Kim okay

[3:18:49] Voice 5: that the North Pender LTC directs

[3:18:52] Voice 5: to men by law 229 allows Marshall boat maintenance on that portion of 4606 Razor Point Road

[3:18:58] Voice 5: that is so in general industrial speed okay

[3:19:03] Voice 1: seconded okay in discussion all question all

[3:19:06] Trustee Maude: in favor that carries all

[3:19:11] Voice 5: right so the definition of farm that was important

[3:19:21] Voice 5: so i have okay so for staff to clarify the farm is in a stand-alone term in bylaw 224

[3:19:33] Voice 5: right so it's associated with these farm operations or farm status the farm is in a

[3:19:40] Voice 5: standalone term so that's why staff have not um suggested a definition for it but okay wait one

[3:19:47] Voice 5: second okay um so i guess my question related to farming to the issue that we already had

[3:19:54] Voice 5: and you know this is the dilemma that we have of this bylaw wrapped into this term and because it

[3:20:03] Voice 5: did there were some other things that were muddy sort of clarification things how violence were

[3:20:10] Voice 5: being implemented they're not a whole new project they're a clarification issue related to a very

[3:20:16] Voice 5: specific problem that happened in our community and so a building that was built that was

[3:20:23] Voice 5: was built because it was argued that there was a farm operation going to happen on a specific

[3:20:30] Voice 5: piece of property it was in the world not agricultural and so um but because they argued

[3:20:37] Voice 5: that it was able to be um to they were able to build a building basically just with the plan

[3:20:45] Voice 5: they were going to a plant and process so i think it was um so the definition that we had

[3:20:53] Voice 5: suggested for farm operation or for farm farm like so how do i guess the question is because

[3:21:01] Voice 5: i know that this is a issue related to just the interpretation so how do we not have the same

[3:21:08] Voice 5: thing happen again if i may yes so

[3:21:11] Voice 5: bylaw 224 we've made it explicitly clear that any type of

[3:21:15] Voice 5: agricultural buildings and structures are only located in a zone where agriculture is a principal

[3:21:22] Voice 5: still use in rural rural comprehensive one and rural comprehensive two so it is not permitted

[3:21:28] Voice 5: in rural residential one or rural residential two we've even backed that up by in those rural

[3:21:34] Voice 5: residential one and rural residential two zones have stated that any accessory buildings for all

[3:21:40] Voice 5: buildings and structures may not exceed 4.6 meters except for a house and a cottage okay so that's

[3:21:47] Voice 1: tightened up that's tied up

[3:21:48] Voice 5: yeah okay well i'm happy about that okay may i take a question

[3:21:53] Voice 5: yes okay this is just because this was the order who actually

[3:21:57] Voice 5: okay so i do not understand first of all why it's an issue to put a definition of farm in because

[3:22:07] Voice 5: both planning staff and enforcement presently consider that farming can take place on a land

[3:22:16] Voice 5: that is not zoned for agriculture as a principal use.

[3:22:21] Voice 5: So putting aside the issue of the building and the height,

[3:22:26] Voice 5: they still take the position that farming can take place

[3:22:30] Voice 5: on non-agricultural land.

[3:22:33] Voice 5: This definition that I propose simply says

[3:22:38] Voice 5: that a farm is a farm operation on land

[3:22:44] Voice 5: that's owned for principal agriculture so it gets rid of that ambiguity now we've all always taken

[3:22:53] Voice 5: the position that that's what the old bylaw said anyways but i do not see why it's an issue that

[3:23:00] Voice 5: this definition could not be put into this so yeah but

[3:23:06] Trustee Maude: they have a ton of stock there is

[3:23:08] Voice 5: no reference

[3:23:09] Voice 5: reference to farm in this new bylaw that old regulation has been completely there's a definition

[3:23:16] Voice 5: of farm operation that's right which is what was based which is what the old uh bylaw had

[3:23:26] Voice 5: and which the applicant relied upon so that if he someone comes back and says i'm conducting a farm

[3:23:35] Voice 5: farm operation on residential land then that's still allowed

[3:23:43] Trustee Maude: some question for the for the

[3:23:45] Trustee Maude: planner so we go forward with this out can that definition be added in to the bylaw in the future

[3:23:57] Trustee Maude: is that again one of these

[3:23:58] Voice 5: but I mean I just

[3:24:00] Trustee Maude: say it said do we have to put this to bed today or can

[3:24:03] Trustee Maude: Can we do a little bit more explanation, a little bit more talk?

[3:24:06] Trustee Maude: So maybe this isn't the time to do it.

[3:24:09] Trustee Maude: Maybe this isn't.

[3:24:11] Trustee Maude: Everybody sort of figure it out and then bring that, if it wasn't a definition, we can assert it at a later point.

[3:24:17] Voice 5: So I guess the, so yes and no.

[3:24:20] Voice 5: So this has been brought up for the last six months or so.

[3:24:24] Voice 5: And so I think there's disagreement on like if we need it or not, and if it's going to help or not.

[3:24:30] Voice 5: i think part of the problem is that there was like it's hard to think about with regulations like

[3:24:38] Voice 5: what are the things that could be done and if we put it in what are the things that it might

[3:24:44] Voice 5: inhibit right because it happens both ways i'm a little uncomfortable with no farm operations

[3:24:52] Voice 5: on on other lands because there are lands that are not agriculturally zoned that they're

[3:24:58] Voice 5: potentially could like the mcdonald farm technically wasn't agriculture is allowed

[3:25:05] Voice 5: everywhere except on rural residential land so that all of them are zoned for agriculture so

[3:25:13] Voice 5: this does not prohibit anything anywhere it simply clarifies that on rural residential lands

[3:25:22] Voice 5: r1 and in the new one r1 and r2 that farming is not about that they are not farming there's

[3:25:31] Voice 5: specific enumerated activities that are allowed horticulture livestock keeping beekeeping those

[3:25:38] Voice 5: things you know so

[3:25:43] Voice 2: okay so

[3:25:44] Voice 5: yeah

[3:25:47] Voice 2: i'm just i'm trying to think

[3:25:50] Voice 2: of my own zoning

[3:25:50] Voice 8: like what

[3:25:54] Trustee Maude: see this is one thing is maybe you know if we can have a definition later yeah then

[3:25:58] Trustee Maude: we need to sort

[3:25:59] Trustee Maude: of go and sleep on it again even

[3:26:02] Voice 5: if we added the definition of farmer would never be referenced

[3:26:05] Voice 5: there is no reference to the languages no no

[3:26:08] Voice 5: it wouldn't be fun just to be clear farm operation

[3:26:10] Voice 1: we have a

[3:26:11] Voice 5: definition of farm operations

[3:26:12] Voice 1: in the dialogue as it stands excuse

[3:26:14] Voice 5: me as in violence

[3:26:16] Voice 5: to do four we have a definition for farm operations and their reference to land use bylaw

[3:26:22] Voice 5: on 103 where they claim that staff misinterpreted it's farm or forestry purposes not farm operations

[3:26:30] Voice 5: that they're referring to absolutely bylaw 103 definitely could have used a farm definition i

[3:26:36] Voice 5: agree with that but in bylaw 224 we've completely eliminated that so do we need to revise one only

[3:26:43] Voice 5: okay there would take bylaw 103 to amend that we'd be going through the same process right now

[3:26:50] Voice 5: yeah it'd be better to just adopt go forward with two to four and then it just over and then it

[3:26:55] Voice 5: takes yeah it takes care of it all okay so i need to just give this a little more thought

[3:27:00] Voice 5: based on all of this conversation so i can't make any other good decision here but i guess

[3:27:06] Voice 5: the question i it's outstanding for me is if if we go away and we have a month's worth or two weeks

[3:27:12] Voice 5: of conversations around this with everybody and get really really crystal clear both of us are

[3:27:16] Voice 5: all three of us and then we want to do that we could do that yeah so let's do that can we just

[3:27:21] Voice 5: do that because we still can put it in there because it's not a density or use issue yeah

[3:27:25] Voice 5: and there is the other issue that i raised about the inconsistency of agritourism and it came about

[3:27:32] Voice 5: because initially agritourism was going to be allowed everywhere and then the trust decided

[3:27:39] Voice 5: that it was only going to be allowed on alr land and at present it still allows it in the rural

[3:27:48] Voice 5: rural one and r2 so it hasn't been removed

[3:27:52] Voice 8: it's not actually an island's trust issue

[3:27:55] Voice 8: i would say

[3:27:58] Voice 8: it wouldn't it wouldn't be something that the islands trust could approve on

[3:28:03] Voice 8: agricultural land

[3:28:04] Voice 7: but

[3:28:06] Voice 5: it's in the bible so the bylaw actually even had agritourism originally

[3:28:12] Voice 5: in our plans as well and i'm just saying it's inconsistent now because it says in the it says

[3:28:23] It says

[3:28:23] Voice 5: only on ALR land, and yet it still allows it on any other land.

[3:28:30] Voice 5: So the regulations for, it's in section 313, it says agritourism, agritourism accommodation

[3:28:38] Voice 5: regulations.

[3:28:39] Voice 5: It says agritourism and agritourism accommodation uses are only permitted on a lot with farm

[3:28:44] Voice 5: status.

[3:28:48] Voice 5: Agri-tourism and agri-tourist accommodation uses are only permitted on a lot located in the ALR.

[3:28:54] Voice 5: So it's saying you have to be in the ALR and you have to have that status.

[3:28:57] Voice 5: But it still explicitly allows it in the R1, R2 and R3. It hasn't been removed.

[3:29:06] Voice 5: Where is that? Which page?

[3:29:07] Voice 5: yeah so it's in two to four it's section three point i'm sorry five point three five point four

[3:29:15] Voice 5: and five point five i believe the version i'm looking on online right now for pilot 224 does

[3:29:24] Voice 5: not happen in the rr1 scale no no i'm talking about the rural or the rural zone the rural zones

[3:29:31] Voice 5: so 5.3 5.4 and 5.5 i believe we left it in there because i believe there may be a portion of a

[3:29:41] Voice 5: property that's split stoned agriculture and rural and that's why we kept it in the rural zone

[3:29:47] Voice 5: but that doesn't make sense there could be a rural property mine is

[3:29:53] Voice 5: my

[3:29:53] Voice 8: property is it actually has two titles and it's rural and dagger

[3:30:00] Voice 8: joe

[3:30:00] Voice 5: and i think that's why we

[3:30:01] Voice 8: kept it i think my parents property is also split and

[3:30:04] Voice 5: that's why we

[3:30:06] Voice 5: kept it so can i just get some clarity so why does that help i just guess i don't understand

[3:30:16] Voice 5: why that helps to keep it in if it's split so i'm like you might understand it because you're

[3:30:20] Voice 5: obviously that way but i don't get it so

[3:30:22] Voice 8: that you could so the way that it would normally be

[3:30:25] Voice 8: as if i am by farm i do farm and we're pursuing agritourism which we are doing um and we have

[3:30:37] Voice 8: the you know 46 acres that we want to operate uh with our agritourism instead of having to do that

[3:30:48] Voice 8: literally in the field where we're farming we can do it on part of the rural property that's there

[3:30:54] Voice 8: because it gives it gives you the ability to use less viable agricultural land to move your

[3:31:02] Voice 8: agricultural purposes forward okay

[3:31:04] Voice 5: so then one more question about that so then what if a property

[3:31:09] Voice 5: has no agricultural zoning can they still do agritourism no but okay they they would need to

[3:31:18] Voice 5: it have they need to make sure that they meet the regulations from the alc yeah which is minute we

[3:31:25] Voice 5: mimic them in our blood to spot why they have to have forms that i said no but

[3:31:28] Voice 1: i'm not talking

[3:31:28] Voice 5: about anything and you also have to be permitted by it through the zoning as well so but okay so

[3:31:35] Voice 5: i'm in a rural lot yep and i have no agricultural zoning on my land there's agriculture it's a

[3:31:45] Voice 8: permanent use but it's not so the agricultural land commission is who permits the use of your

[3:31:52] Voice 8: land for farm stats and you have to and the definition is you have to have agricultural

[3:31:58] Voice 8: land kept in farm status to be allowed to use the agritourism as a as a use as soon as you

[3:32:08] Voice 8: lose your farm status even though you own agricultural land your your agritourism is gone

[3:32:14] Voice 8: So,

[3:32:15] Voice 5: but that's not I'm not talking about anything where there's any kind of agricultural land reserve land. I'm talking about bears property, it's in farm status, no agricultural ALR land on it, but he had farm status on his property.

[3:32:30] Voice 5: Yes.

[3:32:30] Voice 5: Could he have agritourism?

[3:32:32] Voice 5: No. Why?

[3:32:33] Voice 5: Because it states in our regulations, we must, the property must also be in the ALR.

[3:32:38] Voice 5: Okay.

[3:32:39] Voice 5: Has

[3:32:39] Voice 8: to be ag land in farm status.

[3:32:41] Voice 5: Okay.

[3:32:42] Voice 5: it's a

[3:32:43] Voice 8: two it's a two it's a two yeah

[3:32:45] Voice 8: okay

[3:32:46] Voice 5: but chair i'm going to go back to you i think i

[3:32:50] Voice 5: understand that but i know that there's still a plan

[3:32:52] Trustee Maude: yeah

[3:32:54] Voice 5: may i ask a question is there any need

[3:32:58] Voice 5: for the trust at all to regulate agritourism isn't it regulated by the um agricultural land

[3:33:06] Voice 5: commission so so does it have to be in this act it's like thoughts does it mean that's a good

[3:33:15] Voice 5: question yeah so that's a good question and i like so i'm an agricultural idiot okay so like

[3:33:21] Voice 5: that's an area where i live i know like this much okay so i don't know if this was a remnant from

[3:33:28] Voice 5: the agriculture like our aapc recommended this so i don't want to necessarily say no if the aapc

[3:33:34] Voice 5: was the one who actually recommended this so i'm like hesitant to remember the history of why this

[3:33:39] Voice 5: is in there to mix it does anybody know

[3:33:42] Trustee Maude: but but

[3:33:44] Voice 5: again it's just

[3:33:44] Trustee Maude: something that we can tackle it's

[3:33:46] Trustee Maude: a

[3:33:46] Voice 5: use we have to

[3:33:47] Trustee Maude: do so it has to be in i'm

[3:33:50] Voice 5: just confirming if i think this is one of the uses

[3:33:53] Voice 5: that um me i can't remember if it's permitted outright like we can't um restrict the use but

[3:34:01] Voice 5: we had to confirm that like it has

[3:34:05] Voice 1: to be allowed

[3:34:05] Voice 5: but we can further i think we put it in here

[3:34:07] Voice 5: because the aepc because i would never put this in here i would never have thought to do this

[3:34:13] Voice 8: their uh ancillary uses i think is what they're called and you have to have you have to

[3:34:22] Voice 8: you have to be um you have to be actually farming the land

[3:34:31] Voice 8: to have it right so if you were to stop farming the land well no

[3:34:37] Voice 8: this is 100 this is exactly

[3:34:40] Voice 8: exactly the same thing it becomes an ancillary use that if you are

[3:34:46] Voice 8: farming and you are checking

[3:34:47] Voice 8: the boxes with the agricultural land commission there's nothing that the trust can do about it

[3:34:52] Voice 8: as soon as you stop doing the things that you're supposed to do with the agricultural land

[3:34:57] Voice 8: commission then it does become something where you would have to apply for the trust or temporary use

[3:35:03] Voice 8: permit or something to be able to do what it is that you're doing if you weren't going to continue

[3:35:08] Voice 8: yeah

[3:35:09] Voice 5: so my recollection of why it it's in there and it's not crystal clear but my recollection

[3:35:17] Voice 5: of why it's in there is actually just by clarity that it is a use that can be done i think so

[3:35:24] Voice 5: So as opposed, and I think that came from our, so I actually don't want to remove it necessarily

[3:35:31] Voice 5: because the AAPC really looked through things and I, they were trying to make sure things were

[3:35:36] Voice 5: smoother around. So I'm hesitant to remove it.

[3:35:40] Voice 5: So, okay. I feel okay. But we can get there again

[3:35:50] Voice 5: and if we have to

[3:35:52] Voice 5: change it at this point.

[3:35:56] Voice 8: I'm confused now.

[3:35:58] Voice 8: So

[3:35:58] Voice 5: do we keep it currently in there?

[3:36:01] Voice 5: That

[3:36:02] Voice 8: it's allowed on rural

[3:36:04] Voice 8: land? It's

[3:36:05] Voice 5: allowed on rural if there's an

[3:36:06] Voice 5: agricultural produce on the land.

[3:36:08] Voice 5: If it's located in the ALR

[3:36:09] Voice 5: and as far as that is separate.

[3:36:12] Voice 5: But if it's rural land, it's

[3:36:14] Voice 5: not located in the ALR?

[3:36:17] Voice 5: If it's co-occurring with ALR

[3:36:27] Voice 5: I believe there's small portions where the lines aren't perfect in our ALR mapping that actually

[3:36:34] Voice 5: overlap with rural conditions. It couldn't be on rural land, it could only be on agricultural

[3:36:42] Voice 5: cultural designation um alr yeah which i'll say right here you keep saying that to me

[3:36:48] Voice 5: chances are there's probably zero

[3:36:54] Voice 5: properties that would be allowed this use i think there was just like a sliver

[3:37:00] Voice 5: so i think

[3:37:05] Voice 8: i think the safety is in there in that it's it's alar land in farm status is is the key to being

[3:37:20] Voice 8: allowed to use it right like that's that's the part and as long as we're not allowing it any

[3:37:26] Voice 8: anywhere outside of the ALR and farm status.

[3:37:32] Voice 8: That's the issue.

[3:37:33] Voice 5: Well, farm status is...

[3:37:35] Voice 8: No, no, no, no, no, no.

[3:37:36] Voice 8: No, you have to have both, ALR and farm status.

[3:37:39] Voice 8: That's the issue.

[3:37:40] Voice 8: Because you can get farm status on a lot of magical.

[3:37:43] Voice 2: All

[3:37:44] Voice 8: you have to do is sell more than $2,500

[3:37:47] Voice 8: worth of qualifying products and you can get farm status.

[3:37:50] Voice 5: That's right, and

[3:37:51] Voice 8: that's the concern.

[3:37:52] Voice 8: Which is the argument that can be made for building a barn.

[3:37:55] Voice 8: That's right.

[3:37:56] Voice 8: Imagically.

[3:37:56] Voice 8: but the actual the actual allowance is supposed to be because you have agriculture ALR land in

[3:38:06] Voice 8: farm status allows you to do this yeah and and it's the property in question is the guy kind of

[3:38:13] Voice 8: bs'd his way through what he was doing because he doesn't have ag land like he doesn't have

[3:38:19] Voice 8: agricultural land and he got to build this because he said he was doing the developing farm

[3:38:25] Voice 8: because it gives him four years to develop a farm because if you're putting in trees

[3:38:31] Voice 8: like fruit trees bushes anything like that you get a four-year exemption from having to

[3:38:36] Voice 8: even prove your farm status and so you know and

[3:38:43] Voice 5: even though this is a permitted use doesn't mean

[3:38:45] Voice 5: yes you're absolutely allowed to do this you have to abide by all the regulations

[3:38:56] Voice 5: okay

[3:38:58] Trustee Maude: well we'll let you do your final comment it sounds like we've got a conclusion

[3:39:02] Trustee Maude: yeah

[3:39:03] Voice 5: it's just it's confusing because accessory agritourism and agritourist accommodation are

[3:39:10] Voice 5: allowed in the rural lands and i understand that the regulations say it's only on the

[3:39:18] Voice 5: a lot of land with farm status which makes perfect sense so uh if you're in a if you're in rural

[3:39:29] Voice 5: properties you're not in natal or that's right you

[3:39:32] Voice 8: can still get farm status but you could have

[3:39:34] Voice 5: farm status

[3:39:35] Voice 8: but that's not enough yeah

[3:39:37] Voice 8: i get it so

[3:39:38] Voice 5: i i don't understand i still don't understand

[3:39:41] Voice 5: and i consider having notes as permitted uses i understand there's maybe a time sliver somewhere

[3:39:48] Voice 5: that may have been this map that's hardly going to make a difference for somebody who's willing

[3:39:57] Voice 5: to do that it just doesn't make sense

[3:40:04] Voice 8: because i i ran into this like miscashing of the pad and and the island stress downloads

[3:40:12] Voice 8: the cadastral every so often and they actually change the fabric of

[3:40:18] Voice 8: better across bc all the time and it can move lines and so we

[3:40:25] Voice 8: have like scheduled maps or like

[3:40:27] Voice 8: the zoning boundaries that don't move in the cad they they can be offset we had those on salt

[3:40:33] Voice 8: spring it's i call them our embarrassing maps because you

[3:40:37] Voice 1: don't have like these weird sliver

[3:40:38] Voice 8: conservation lists on someone's property and i just

[3:40:45] so i guess

[3:40:47] Voice 5: i guess my question is um if we were to remove that rural piece as they pointed out

[3:40:55] Voice 5: um it would affect a very narrow area right so i'm wondering if we just remove it

[3:41:03] Voice 8: and would it actually affect it it's actually on it's an overlap onto agricultural land it shouldn't

[3:41:11] Voice 8: affect anything i think

[3:41:12] Voice 2: as far as the

[3:41:13] Voice 8: ability to do it it only protects the rural land part

[3:41:16] Voice 8: the bylaw it wouldn't affect the it wouldn't affect the uh yeah i

[3:41:22] Voice 5: think we take that piece

[3:41:23] Voice 5: out and then like if if somebody who is literally impacted by that sliver has it

[3:41:28] Voice 5: then we can do that it's just an extent it's a site-specific kind of law

[3:41:33] Voice 5: so what's the motion um for the ltc direct staff to amend bylaw 224 to remove accessory

[3:41:42] Voice 5: agritourism and agritourist accommodation uses that's it

[3:41:53] Voice 5: It didn't seem like that should have been a

[3:41:55] Voice 2: long-term motion for that one.

[3:41:57] Voice 5: Keep it simple.

[3:41:58] Voice 2: Okay.

[3:41:59] Voice 5: Can I move that?

[3:42:00] I'm kind of kidding.

[3:42:02] Or do you want me to say that?

[3:42:05] Yeah.

[3:42:08] Voice 2: So, we're just, two seconds.

[3:42:10] Voice 2: I'm going to.

[3:42:31] Voice 9: Send

[3:42:35] Voice 2: that right to you right now.

[3:42:51] Voice 2: Motion.

[3:42:52] Voice 2: In your email.

[3:42:56] Voice 5: Did you want to see someone's comment?

[3:42:58] Voice 5: Or to be from?

[3:42:59] Voice 5: In

[3:42:59] Voice 2: your comment.

[3:43:01] Voice 2: To this?

[3:43:03] Voice 2: Yeah.

[3:43:03] Voice 2: Okay.

[3:43:13] Voice 5: Agri-tourism and agri-tourist accommodations for the world's own.

[3:43:18] Trustee Maude: Any further discussion? All questions, all in favor?

[3:43:22] Trustee Maude: So

[3:43:23] Voice 5: if they're limited to one...

[3:43:24] Trustee Maude: Oh, no, no, no.

[3:43:26] Trustee Maude: I was winding my finger another way, so...

[3:43:32] Trustee Maude: Go ahead.

[3:43:34] Voice 5: Okay.

[3:43:35] Voice 5: Okay.

[3:43:46] Voice 2: So my understanding is that the industrial uses would be

[3:43:54] Voice 7: moved over to a different dialogue

[3:43:57] Voice 7: and this is the slow mode.

[3:44:01] Voice 5: Now hopefully not.

[3:44:02] Voice 5: Yeah, right.

[3:44:03] Voice 5: Potentially, but but so the, the, the mark.

[3:44:13] Voice 5: Yeah, so we can do a standing order to deal with the by law enforcement issue on.

[3:44:18] Voice 5: Yes, so I think that we should do that.

[3:44:23] Voice 5: that until this is resolved so that yeah that's not a bad

[3:44:37] Voice 5: so

[3:44:37] Trustee Maude: do you do you have time to craft that motion i

[3:44:42] Voice 5: know what it is

[3:44:45] Voice 5: i'll send it to you but i just gotta write it out in front of me and then i can say it

[3:44:48] Voice 5: let's go ahead and do this and then we can okay

[3:44:51] Trustee Maude: so you want to do the

[3:44:52] Trustee Maude: the reading of

[3:44:53] Voice 5: the yeah we can go ahead with that okay

[3:44:55] Trustee Maude: so if you want to start with the last one

[3:45:10] Voice 8: so we're starting at the top that the north pender island local trust committee proposed

[3:45:17] Voice 8: bylaw number 223 cited as north pender island official community plan byline number 171

[3:45:23] Voice 8: 2007 amendment number one 2021 be read a first time second any

[3:45:30] Voice 8: discussion call question all in

[3:45:31] Voice 8: favor

[3:45:32] Voice 2: it's

[3:45:33] Voice 8: carried that the north pender island local trust committee proposed bylaw number 224

[3:45:39] Voice 8: cited as north pender island bylaw number 224 2022 be read a first time second question all in favor

[3:45:48] Voice 8: that the north pender island local trust committee proposed bylaw number 229 cited as north pender

[3:45:55] Voice 8: island land use bylaw number 224 2022 amendment number 1 2022 be read a first time second

[3:46:04] Voice 8: it's got a couple questions all in favor that the north pender island local trust committee

[3:46:09] Voice 8: proposed bylaw number 223 cited as north pender island official community plan bylaw number 171

[3:46:15] Voice 8: on 2007, Amendment Number 1, 2021, be read a second time.

[3:46:21] Voice 7: Seconded.

[3:46:21] Voice 5: Seconded.

[3:46:22] Voice 7: All questions in favor?

[3:46:24] Voice 5: 224 and 229.

[3:46:25] Voice 7: No.

[3:46:26] Voice 8: The North

[3:46:28] Voice 8: Pender Island Local Trust Committee

[3:46:32] Voice 8: proposed bylaw number 224,

[3:46:34] Voice 8: cited as North Pender Island land use bylaw number 224, 2022,

[3:46:38] Voice 8: be read a second time.

[3:46:40] Voice 8: Seconded. Seconded.

[3:46:41] Voice 2: All

[3:46:41] Voice 8: questions in favor?

[3:46:42] Voice 8: Aye.

[3:46:43] Voice 8: That carries.

[3:46:44] Voice 8: at the north pender island local trust committee proposed on number 229 and cited as north pender

[3:46:49] Voice 8: island land use bylaw number 229 it says 224. oh

[3:46:55] Voice 5: yeah sorry i could catch 229 2022

[3:46:58] Voice 8: amendment number one 2022 be read a second

[3:47:01] Voice 5: time all right second

[3:47:02] Voice 8: call the question

[3:47:04] Voice 8: that the north pender island local trust committee direct staff discovered community information

[3:47:11] Voice 8: information meeting prior to the public hearing for the land use bylaw review process question

[3:47:17] Voice 8: okay so

[3:47:20] Voice 5: just to be clear this is

[3:47:26] Voice 5: 224 allows the accessibility structures and so forth so they don't want to halt oh yeah

[3:47:31] Voice 5: and

[3:47:32] Trustee Maude: you email that to the minute taker I've

[3:47:35] Voice 5: emailed it to Kim so

[3:47:37] Trustee Maude: the minute taker is going

[3:47:38] Trustee Maude: be clear they don't want them mad at me nope

[3:47:41] Voice 5: ready okay

[3:47:42] Trustee Maude: that

[3:47:43] Voice 5: the north country um moved to suspend

[3:47:48] Voice 5: violent abortion on the industrial zone portion of 4606 point road until the completion of bylaw

[3:47:53] Voice 5: 224 and 229.

[3:47:54] Trustee Maude: exactly any discussions all questions

[3:47:58] Trustee Maude: all in favor that carries thank

[3:48:01] Voice 5: you all right

[3:48:09] Voice 5: when when do we want to do that uh the potential dates um i'm assuming you're

[3:48:16] Voice 5: considering the amount of work that our legislative clerk will have to like get the

[3:48:21] Voice 5: public hearing partners together um potentially may 20th did you want to do that on saturday

[3:48:26] Voice 5: or would it community information you know okay is that the pender allen

[3:48:32] Voice 5: disc closet does anybody know when the date is come on now i

[3:48:35] Voice 8: think you know i think you'd have

[3:48:36] Voice 8: to go for the beginning of the year

[3:48:38] Voice 5: before we could

[3:48:40] Voice 8: do that um

[3:48:41] Voice 5: june 3rd because we'll be

[3:48:44] Voice 5: uh

[3:48:46] Voice 8: we'll be the last two weekends of may are insane and there's

[3:48:53] Voice 8: big big disco

[3:48:55] Voice 8: so

[3:48:57] Voice 5: 17th is the next day june 17th that's my son's graduation

[3:49:08] Voice 5: We do have,

[3:49:10] Voice 5: we do have

[3:49:11] Voice 5: a special meeting scheduled for June 24th for Northender, perhaps we use that special meeting for the housing.

[3:49:19] Voice 5: Okay. Well, that's okay I think we need to be done with this

[3:49:23] Voice 5: project, so I think we could probably do both.

[3:49:26] Voice 3: I mean we have a long afternoon on these Saturdays with us.

[3:49:30] Voice 3: and i'll leave it to the fire

[3:49:30] Voice 5: it's really

[3:49:33] Voice 3: what it comes

[3:49:33] Voice 5: so the only day earlier days that's like three months away that's a long way away

[3:49:55] Voice 5: there's

[3:49:55] Voice 2: a very long

[3:49:56] Voice 5: weekend so it can't be done in like may 13th

[3:50:11] Voice 5: I don't know it just seems like that's a long way what has to happen between now and then

[3:50:16] Voice 5: well it's getting ready it's the public hearing binders and so jazz has to get the and we have

[3:50:24] Voice 5: crystal mountain public hearing which is a big one for galliano as well so she's going to be

[3:50:28] Voice 5: very busy so i would say the 13th would be sure okay 13th would be okay so we could have the 13th

[3:50:45] Trustee Maude: can we do a noon start is that okay i

[3:50:52] Voice 5: think oh you mean as opposed to this time when we got here

[3:50:55] Voice 5: today well i'm

[3:50:57] Trustee Maude: i'm trying to focus on a 430 variable

[3:51:00] Voice 5: no that's perfect i'm so sorry about

[3:51:02] Voice 5: today here or the community doesn't

[3:51:06] Trustee Maude: make a difference

[3:51:06] Voice 5: i think it's fine yeah i don't

[3:51:10] Voice 5: have a reference

[3:51:10] Voice 5: whatever's available so but as long as okay so may 13th but

[3:51:17] Trustee Maude: you don't need

[3:51:17] Trustee Maude: motions or anything nope

[3:51:19] Voice 5: okay can i just say clarity on the public hearing right there's two

[3:51:23] Voice 5: or are we in one an earlier one there's one right now there's one and then

[3:51:29] Voice 5: is it may it's may 13th

[3:51:33] Voice 5: sorry there may be two if the the issues on that second biological nine if they become contentious

[3:51:40] Voice 5: that one will go into a second hearing the first one will like maintain yeah unless there's some

[3:51:47] Voice 5: like thing we don't understand okay oh sorry are

[3:51:50] Trustee Maude: we good to adjourn

[3:51:51] Trustee Maude: doctor you're happy

[3:51:53] Voice 5: so

[3:51:54] Trustee Maude: much example adjourn okay thank you very much well done

North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Special Business Meeting 
March 11, 2023 ADOPTED Page 1 of 7 pages 
 
North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Minutes of Special Meeting 
 
Date:  
Location:  
March 11, 2023 
Anglican Parish Hall 
4703 Canal Road, RR 1, North Pender Island BC 
 
Members Present: David Maude, Chair 
 Deb Morrison, Trustee 
 Aaron Campbell, Trustee 
  
Staff Present: Kim Stockdill, Island Planner 
 Brad Smith, Island Planner 
 Narissa Chadwick, Island Planner 
William Shulba, Senior Freshwater Specialist 
Sarah Shugar, Recorder 
  
Others Present: Approximately 18 members of the public 
These minutes follow  the order of the  agenda although the sequence may have  varied.  The  electronic 
meeting was live-streamed and recorded. 
1. CALL TO ORDER 
Chair Maude called the meeting to order at 1:02 p.m.  He acknowledged that the meeting was 
being held in traditional territory of the Coast Salish First Nations. 
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 
By general consent, the agenda was approved as presented. 
3. BUSINESS ITEMS 
3.1 Groundwater Sustainability Implementation Project 
 Freshwater Specialist Shulba and Planner Chadwick presented an overview of the 
Groundwater Sustainability Implementation Project. 
The following questions and answers were recorded: 
Q:  What tools were used? 
A:  A contractor used registered wells and drillers log data to assign geological terms and 
identify the fracture depth of wells.  Water use is the unknown factor.  We can use 
proxies such as looking at registered wells and assigning 600 litres per day and we can 
extrapolate the data. 
A D O P T E D 

 
North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Special Business Meeting 
March 11, 2023 ADOPTED Page 2 of 7 pages 
Q:  Do we have monitoring wells on Pender Island?  
A:  The Province has a Groundwater Observation Network and there are two wells that 
are actively monitored on Pender Island.  W. Shulba oversees a community wells 
monitoring program on Salt Spring Island.  The Province keeps a long-term record and 
includes long-term climate patterns.  
Q:  Would it be possible for property owners to be able to participate in a well 
monitoring program or could the LTC require well monitoring on Pender Island? 
A:  The most economical way to monitor a well is to install a data monitor to a new well, 
although the majority of newer wells can be retrofitted for well monitoring.  The issue is 
what to do with the data.  It is an emerging science and there are more tools available. 
Q:  How do tidal impacts fit into groundwater well monitoring? 
A:  The movement of water through a fracture is maximum 100 meters per year.  An 
aquifer is a hydraulic system and the tides impact the pressure, although the exchange 
of water is slow. 
Q:  There is a land parcel that has almost all of the trees removed and now water is 
springing out of the rock.  Should we be trying to capture that water? 
A:  Trees act as pumps and bring water into them and soils are degraded during clear 
cutting.  Densely packed second-growth forests are not the best for groundwater 
recharge.  Thirsty forests make healthy soils.  Springs in clear-cut areas contribute to 
increasing sediment in streams and rivers. 
The meeting recessed for a break at 2:14 p.m. and reconvened at 2:20 p.m. 
Q:  Do the recommendations take into consideration whether there are hydro geologists 
to do the work? 
A:  Yes. 
Q:  What about subdivision? 
A:  There could be conditions in a rezoning process to address water recharge.  
Scheduled critical recharge area maps could be used as an additional tool in planning 
decisions. 
Comment:  Watersheds in other jurisdictions are fenced. 
A:  Many jurisdictions protect their watersheds. 
Q:  Are there areas in the Province that manage different uses for groundwater? 
A:  There are areas such as the Koksilah Watershed that are reconfiguring water use, 
including groundwater licenses for uses that impact salmon.  Mayne Island has been 
quite successful with managed water systems. 
Q:  It is important for people who want to use cisterns that they don't run into 
difficulties in the permitting process. 

 
North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Special Business Meeting 
March 11, 2023 ADOPTED Page 3 of 7 pages 
A:  The Islands Trust and CRD need to take a coordinated approach regarding water 
storage.  
A Trustee expressed support for educational materials regarding grey water regulations 
and pilot projects. 
Q:  Where are the monitored wells on Pender Island? 
A:  One of the provincially monitored wells is located on Paisley road and there is 
another located on Pirates Road. 
The meeting recessed at 3:00 p.m. for a break and reconvened at 3:10 p.m. 
3.2 Land Use Bylaw Review Project - Staff Report  
Planner Stockdill presented a staff report dated March 8, 2023 regarding LUB Review 
Project – Proposed Bylaw Nos. 223, 224, & 229.  
 
There was discussion regarding the stairs within the setback to the sea.  Concern was 
expressed that the stairs within the setback to the sea topic needs more consideration 
and the LTC would like to hear more from the public on this item.  Planner Stockdill 
advised this could be amended following the Public Hearing and the topic could be 
flagged in the Public Hearing notice. 
 
There was discussion regarding the foreshore retaining Water 1 Zoning in order to 
continue to permit private docks.  Concern was expressed that the needs more 
consideration and the LTC would like to hear more from the public on this item.  Planner 
Smith advised there is a Provincial moratorium on new docks. 
 
There was discussion regarding how many properties would be impacted by the 
Maximum Floor Area topic.  Planner Stockdill advised a total of 271 properties could 
potentially be impacted.  Support was expressed that further education is needed on 
this topic. 
 
A member of the public spoke to the definitions of farming and agri-tourism within the 
Agricultural Land Reserve (ALR) land.  There was discussion regarding agriculture 
regulations, zoning and farm status. 
 
NP-2023-022 
It was MOVED and SECONDED,  
that the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee direct staff to amend draft 
Bylaws No. 223 and 229 to rezone Lot 18, Section 10, Pender Island, Cowichan 
District, Plan 22424 to a site specific Community Park 2 zone that would also 
permit the existing tennis courts. 
CARRIED 
  

 
North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Special Business Meeting 
March 11, 2023 ADOPTED Page 4 of 7 pages 
 
NP-2023-023 
It was MOVED and SECONDED,  
That the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee direct staff to amend draft 
Bylaw No. 224 to remove the following accessory uses from the Rural 
Residential 1 zone: pig farming, dog breeding, boarding kennels and keeping of 
livestock. 
CARRIED  
 
NP-2023-024 
It was MOVED and SECONDED,  
That the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee direct staff to amend draft 
Bylaw No. 224 to allow all uses in the Commercial 2 zone for that portion of 
4605 Bedwell Harbour Road zoned Commercial 2 g (C2g). 
CARRIED  
 
NP-2023-025 
It was MOVED and SECONDED,   
That the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee direct staff to amend draft 
Bylaw No. 224 to allow the following densities for the Commercial 2 zoned 
properties: 1329 MacKinnon Road is permitted 20 Tourist Accommodation Units 
and 1333 MacKinnon Road is permitted 7 Tourist Accommodation Units. 
CARRIED 
  
NP-2023-026 
It was MOVED and SECONDED,   
That the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee direct staff to amend draft 
Bylaw No. 224 to amend Commercial 2 (g) zone to permit one Tourist 
Accommodation Unit with a maximum floor area of 280m² (3000 ft²) and which 
is not calculated in the total floor area for tourist accommodation units. 
CARRIED 
 
NP-2023-027 
It was MOVED and SECONDED,   
That the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee direct staff to amend draft 
Bylaw No. 224 to rezone those portions of 3418 South Otter Bay Road as 
outlined in Column 4 in Table 1 of the staff report dated March 11, 2023. 
CARRIED 
 
NP-2023-028 
It was MOVED and SECONDED,   
That the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee direct staff to amend draft 
Bylaw No. 224 to rezone the area around North Pender to be rezoned from 
Water 3 zone to Water 1 zone.  
CARRIED 
 
  

 
North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Special Business Meeting 
March 11, 2023 ADOPTED Page 5 of 7 pages 
NP-2023-029 
It was MOVED and SECONDED,   
That the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee direct staff to remove the 
maximum floor area and total floor area regulations for the Rural Residential 1, 
Rural Residential 2, Rural, Rural Comprehensive 1, Rural Comprehensive 2, 
and/or Agriculture zones, from draft Bylaw No. 224 to draft Bylaw No. 229. 
 
CARRIED 
 
NP-2023-030 
It was MOVED and SECONDED,   
That the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee direct staff to amend draft 
Bylaw No. 229 to increase the maximum floor area for the Rural Residential 1, 
Rural Residential 2, Rural, Rural Comprehensive 1, Rural Comprehensive 2, 
and/or Agriculture zones to: 
 3000 ft² for those lots less than 0.4 ha (1 acre); 
 3500 ft² for those 0.4 ha (1 acre) to less than 1.2 ha (3 acres); and or, 
 4000 ft² for those 1.2 ha (3 areas) or greater. 
CARRIED 
 
NP-2023-031 
It was MOVED and SECONDED,   
That the North Pender Local Trust Committee direct staff to amend draft Bylaw 
No. 229 to allow commercial boat maintenance on that portion of 4606 Razor 
Point Road that is zoned General Industrial (b). 
CARRIED 
 
NP-2023-032 
It was MOVED and SECONDED,   
That the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee direct staff to amend draft 
Bylaw No. 224 to remove agri-tourism and agri-tourist accommodation from the 
Rural zone. 
CARRIED 
 
NP-2023-033 
It was MOVED and SECONDED,   
That the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee proposed Bylaw No. 223, 
cited as “North Pender Island Official Community Plan Bylaw No. 171, 2007, 
Amendment No. 1, 2021” be read a first time.  
CARRIED 
 
NP-2023-034 
It was MOVED and SECONDED,   
That the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee proposed Bylaw No. 224, 
cited as “North Pender Island Land Use Bylaw No. 224, 2022” be read a first 
time.  
CARRIED 

 
North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Special Business Meeting 
March 11, 2023 ADOPTED Page 6 of 7 pages 
NP-2023-035 
It was MOVED and SECONDED,   
That the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee proposed Bylaw No. 229, 
cited as “North Pender Island Land Use Bylaw No. 224, 2022, Amendment No. 1, 
2022” be read a first time.  
CARRIED 
 
NP-2023-036 
It was MOVED and SECONDED,   
That the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee proposed Bylaw No. 223, 
cited as “North Pender Island Official Community Plan Bylaw No. 171, 2007, 
Amendment No. 1, 2021” be read a second time.  
CARRIED 
 
NP-2023-037 
It was MOVED and SECONDED,   
That the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee proposed Bylaw No. 224, 
cited as “North Pender Island Land Use Bylaw No. 224, 2022” be read a second 
time.  
CARRIED 
 
NP-2023-038 
It was MOVED and SECONDED,   
That the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee proposed Bylaw No. 229, 
cited as “North Pender Island Land Use Bylaw No. 229, 2022, Amendment No. 1, 
2022” be read a second time.  
CARRIED 
 
NP-2023-039 
It was MOVED and SECONDED,   
That the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee direct staff to schedule a 
Community Information Meeting prior to the Public Hearing for the Land Use 
Bylaw Review Project.  
CARRIED 
 
NP-2023-040 
It was MOVED and SECONDED,   
That the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee move to suspend bylaw 
enforcement on the Industrial zoned portion of 4606 Razor Point Road until the 
completion of Bylaw 224 and 229. 
CARRIED 
 
By general consent, the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee requested 
staff to schedule the Public Hearing for the Land Use Bylaw Review Project on 
May 13, 2023, location to be determined. 
  

 
North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Special Business Meeting 
March 11, 2023 ADOPTED Page 7 of 7 pages 
4. ADJOURNMENT 
By general consent, the meeting was adjourned at 4:53 p.m. 
 
 
 
 
_________________________ 
David Maude, Chair 
 
 
 
Certified Correct: 
 
 
_________________________ 
Sarah Shugar, Recorder