North Pender Island Local Trust Committee regular meeting, March 17, 2023

[0:00:35] extra little box

[0:00:37] Voice 6: there's another extension

[0:00:49] Voice 3: question are they starting from beginning already

[0:00:57] Voice 3: david are you starting the meeting we don't know if they don't have it can i

[0:02:36] do you know how

[0:02:37] Voice 16: to oh my god you're asking a question now no we do not know how to close

[0:02:51] Voice 16: the meeting i think

[0:02:53] Voice 8: you have to do it on your end because

[0:02:54] Voice 16: you're the host you

[0:02:58] Voice 8: have to make

[0:02:58] Voice 8: you for

[0:02:59] Voice 3: me okay we have a new meeting administrator here okay

[0:03:29] Voice 16: so pat you're ready to go pat

[0:03:33] Voice 16: she's happy we're recording so we're ready to go from the administrative end so good morning

[0:03:41] Voice 16: everybody thank you for joining us today for our regular meeting of the pender island welcome trust

[0:03:47] Voice 16: trust committee. We're fortunate to be able to gather today in locations across the traditional

[0:03:56] territories of the Coast Salish people. I'm David Maud.

[0:04:00] Voice 16: I'm from Main Island. I'm the executive

[0:04:02] Voice 16: and elected designated chair of the Pendle Island Local Trust Committee. Today, I'm joined by your

[0:04:07] Voice 16: two Pendle Island trustees, Deb Morrison and Aaron Campbell. Together, we've been the Pendle

[0:04:13] Voice 16: our island local trust committee um this meeting is being live streamed it's also being recorded

[0:04:19] Voice 16: it will be available soon on the island's trust website um we have some staff members joining

[0:04:23] Voice 16: us today we have uh regional planning manager robert kachina

[0:04:26] Voice 10: planner

[0:04:28] Voice 16: brad we will have um our

[0:04:37] Voice 16: recording secretary um and robin hill chuck is our primary host joined by her able assistant today

[0:04:45] Voice 16: because robin's leading us um this meeting is official forum of the open trust committee to

[0:04:50] Voice 16: make decisions about land use planning matters and discuss travel and business i want to add

[0:04:54] Voice 16: that this is a place of employment despite the fact many staffer and their own homes our staffer

[0:05:00] Voice 16: have the right to a safe and respectful workplace so we will move forward with the approval of the

[0:05:06] agenda does anybody have any additions to the agenda so by consent we will approve the agenda

[0:05:14] Voice 16: and we'll get right into the trustee report who wants to be the first to

[0:05:19] Voice 18: sure um that's just uh it

[0:05:23] Voice 4: was a busy last few weeks for um meetings and whatnot with the water

[0:05:30] Voice 4: water meeting on the was doing um the trust council it was a spirited affair

[0:05:39] Voice 4: that pretty much official the official business stuff that we did over the last

[0:05:47] Voice 4: last month and then just lots of there's lots of community uh involvement getting getting together

[0:05:54] Voice 4: with people and just hearing about concerns and stuff that they have to feel about what is going

[0:06:01] on but largely in part fairly

[0:06:05] Voice 3: positive type stuff so it's it's good to see that and willing to talk

[0:06:17] Voice 3: about it really what my few

[0:06:20] Voice 4: the

[0:06:23] Voice 3: last week has been like yeah

[0:06:30] Voice 8: i would say the same kind of um

[0:06:32] Voice 8: reflections on just like it seems like people are reaching out and having conversations in different

[0:06:38] Voice 8: ways um there has been a couple meetings with adam olsen um one related to war street concerns

[0:06:45] Voice 8: community raised another uh for the southern gulf island forum um which i want to say was just this

[0:06:52] Voice 8: past week but it seems like it's been a really busy few weeks with us council underwater meeting

[0:06:58] Voice 8: and our other so but i did believe it was just last monday um so the southern gulf island forum

[0:07:04] Voice 8: so that's the trustees and the southern gulf island agent crd directors um although they

[0:07:09] Voice 8: weren't able to make it this time around and uh adam also met with may's office and so it's a

[0:07:14] Voice 8: chance for us to try and coordinate activity a little bit more deeply across the southern

[0:07:18] Voice 8: so there was um some just sort of kind of issue naming and figuring out what kind of things

[0:07:24] Voice 8: fall across those different areas that we could try to coordinate on collectively um that are in

[0:07:30] Voice 8: our different realms of jurisdiction um so that's super helpful um and so that work is going to

[0:07:37] Voice 8: continue on uh myrie bolin and myself um she's the saturn trustee have started conversations

[0:07:44] Voice 8: and just thinking about how to do some additional pieces of work at the trust council level to

[0:07:50] Voice 8: just help think about some of the issues that were brought up in the last trust council so

[0:07:54] Voice 8: we're working on that and yeah we had a call while I was driving back from Anacortes last night

[0:08:03] Voice 8: on the phone the life of working trustees and I guess the last thing maybe just to name that

[0:08:09] Voice 8: I really appreciate all the letters communications I know sometimes from community perspective

[0:08:16] Voice 8: it can be confusing why you need to write the same letter three times at three different points

[0:08:20] Voice 8: over the course of a project but it is actually really helpful to keep those things on the top

[0:08:25] Voice 8: of the pile um and and to make sure that we're having all voices heard on any given issue so

[0:08:31] Voice 8: i really do encourage people not to write long you know narratives necessarily but like on any

[0:08:37] Voice 8: given issue just to weigh in regularly on the issue that's the most helpful and as you weigh

[0:08:42] Voice 8: in on issues it's really important that you provide rationale for why you think what you think

[0:08:46] Voice 8: because we can't really make decisions just because x number of people decide that that's not

[0:08:51] Voice 8: actually really how it works we have to provide rationale of like why we're making decisions the

[0:08:57] Voice 8: way we're working so it's helpful that people when they have a particular opinion if you can

[0:09:01] Voice 8: wave it with your rationale um i think that's that's it thank you thank

[0:09:07] Voice 16: you um from my perspective

[0:09:10] Voice 16: of the three of us we we survived trust council um i think that's going to be the new t-shirt

[0:09:15] Voice 16: we're going to have because there's a lot of depth and a lot of stuff goes on there and

[0:09:20] Voice 16: a lot of very long days but we get it done um just to sort of tag onto what deb was saying about

[0:09:29] Voice 16: regional involvement all levels of local government now really seem to be working

[0:09:35] Voice 16: well together is it from elizabeth may to adam olsen to paul brand to the local trustees within

[0:09:42] Voice 16: the area we're doing a lot of communication that i just haven't seen in the past um like

[0:09:49] Voice 16: deb was saying on monday there was the the one meeting with adam olson we've had another one

[0:09:54] Voice 16: since with adam nelson since then last saturday he was over on main island i think he was here

[0:10:00] Voice 16: yesterday so doing a lot of communicating but they're involving others so instead of being

[0:10:09] Voice 16: the adam also meeting it's now basically it's the local government traveling show so um everybody's

[0:10:15] Voice 16: making an effort to attend these meetings communicate talk so if somebody has a problem

[0:10:20] Voice 16: like adam will go well this sounds like a crd issue this sounds like an ielts trust issue

[0:10:24] Voice 16: and so people can come to the meetings and sort of get their concerns addressed and we can get

[0:10:30] Voice 16: the feedback to make things happen and so it's kind of interesting um i know that we're we're

[0:10:36] Voice 16: working having a meeting um probably in april i would assume that's going to involve um senior

[0:10:42] Voice 16: management from crd islands trust in vancouver health authority just to address a lot of little

[0:10:48] Voice 16: local issues where what we perceive as being you know is we we have people with sort of city views

[0:10:57] Voice 16: issues coming in to sort of solve what are not problems um on my island is outhouses it is is

[0:11:05] Voice 16: Vihaz decided that outhouses are a bad thing and it's it's affected our community um another thing

[0:11:13] Voice 16: I think Pender's been the farmer's market with with them saying you can't sell cookies and soups

[0:11:17] Voice 16: pies and all that there's a there's a few Vihaz issues we have one initiative um CRD it's it's

[0:11:24] Voice 16: with um building inspection and such so we're communicating we're working and we're working

[0:11:31] Voice 16: together and i think it's really really positive um but i'll just leave it at that i think that

[0:11:36] Voice 16: you know we're doing good i think is that there's not a lot of friction and and i think that being

[0:11:43] Voice 16: representatives of you is working quite well at this point so thank you

[0:11:49] Voice 3: so moving

[0:11:52] Voice 16: on um director

[0:11:55] Voice 16: director asked if he could not be here today because he was here yesterday with Adam Olson so

[0:11:59] Voice 16: I said it would probably be okay so he doesn't have a report and we'll move on to town hall

[0:12:04] Voice 16: and questions and just quickly if you put your hands up if you have a question uh for the minute

[0:12:10] Voice 16: take if you just identify yourself and we'll do our best to address so does anybody have any

[0:12:15] Voice 16: questions at this point and

[0:12:24] Voice 7: uh I'm a retired cola in the past with early to career to keep

[0:12:31] Voice 7: some kind of context and i really feel like you need to update your uh your uh employment you know

[0:12:41] Voice 7: where you're supposed to be talking about how this is a respectful place places women it talks a lot

[0:12:45] Voice 7: about the island's trust staff but that goes both ways so these do involve everyone in this group

[0:12:50] Voice 7: we all need to treat each other respectfully and it goes both ways and so i i hear a lot

[0:12:57] Voice 7: about the stress stuff but i don't think too much about the problem

[0:13:00] Voice 3: okay thank you

[0:13:09] Voice 12: now i'm nick collins uh property owner part-timer for 30 years um coming here um

[0:13:17] Voice 12: yeah it was a good meeting with adam olsen and paul brendan

[0:13:21] Voice 12: just a question arising from the last minutes i took a quick look at the minutes and

[0:13:29] Voice 12: And I believe there were a number of bylaws rescinded after second reading

[0:13:36] Voice 12: going into third.

[0:13:41] Voice 12: And I just wondered if the rationale is communicated

[0:13:48] Voice 12: and if that's covered in the minutes, for example, adequately.

[0:13:55] Voice 12: I don't know.

[0:13:55] Voice 12: I just took a quick read.

[0:13:57] Voice 12: and uh if there's going to be any mention of that where we go from here in today's agenda thank you

[0:14:06] Voice 16: i know we covered it in the meeting but maybe it didn't capture the minutes

[0:14:11] Voice 16: so could you maybe just explain why we rescinded it it's

[0:14:15] Voice 6: the language file yeah yeah yeah so there

[0:14:17] Voice 6: was a number of amendments or changes the local trust committee because

[0:14:30] Voice 6: late last term and then uh you know new local

[0:14:34] Voice 6: trust committee uh wanted to revisit a number of

[0:14:37] Voice 6: companies by law and so use because the final is sitting at their reading

[0:14:41] Voice 6: if the recommended approach to wind it back take it back to draft by law have the discussion make

[0:14:47] Voice 6: the changes and then once those changes um were read upon by the trust committee then give it

[0:14:54] Voice 6: first and second reading i mean i knew and then they gave direction to schedule a public hearing

[0:15:01] Voice 6: on may 13th so that's

[0:15:04] Voice 10: we're going to

[0:15:05] Voice 6: use by lives now and

[0:15:07] Voice 8: if i can just add that a little bit

[0:15:09] Voice 8: we will it is on our agenda um today as well just to touch base on some of those things but

[0:15:14] Voice 8: but the meeting is recorded as well.

[0:15:17] Voice 8: And the rationale is more in the conversation of the video.

[0:15:21] Voice 8: Like we talked through anything that was changed,

[0:15:23] Voice 8: why it was changed in that.

[0:15:25] Voice 8: That is not generally my understanding

[0:15:27] Voice 8: that they capture the rationale in minutes.

[0:15:30] Voice 6: Minutes are to record decisions.

[0:15:32] Voice 8: Yeah, and that's primarily

[0:15:33] Voice 8: because the rationale is kind of nuanced

[0:15:35] Voice 8: and lots of different people are speaking

[0:15:36] Voice 8: and the

[0:15:36] Voice 8: staff, like the note-taking protocol

[0:15:38] Voice 8: is not to have that kind of nuance

[0:15:41] Voice 8: tried to have to put that on staff

[0:15:43] Voice 8: staff to try to record that nuance and because we have the video people can watch the video and see

[0:15:48] Voice 8: that argument i think it's it'd

[0:15:50] Voice 4: be just about impossible to for a minute taker to document the

[0:15:54] Voice 4: the word for word back and forth it looked like a screenplay by the time they were done taking it

[0:16:01] Voice 4: so that's in the recording you get more of what is actually said between everybody as opposed to

[0:16:08] Voice 4: the goals

[0:16:09] Voice 8: notes of what is going on but happy to discuss like and i think aaron and i probably have

[0:16:15] Voice 8: slightly different perspectives probably dave too about how that rationale played out for any

[0:16:20] Voice 8: given decision but we're happy to talk that through if you have a specific question on it

[0:16:23] Voice 8: thank you

[0:16:24] Voice 16: anybody else okay if not then we're going through a little bit of a dance here

[0:16:32] Voice 16: um we're having a public hearing um on sydney island so what we do is we close the meeting

[0:16:39] Voice 16: and then we begin a public hearing and so we have to start all over again with the fun stuff so

[0:16:45] Voice 16: i have a script i have to read keep this all

[0:16:52] Voice 16: keep robert from yelling at me what's good to be optimistic proposed by law 232 is now open

[0:16:59] Voice 16: i want to welcome everybody in attendance and acknowledge that we are meeting the territory

[0:17:02] Voice 16: of the coast salish first nations my name is trustee david maude and i'm the chair of north

[0:17:07] Voice 16: the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee.

[0:17:10] Voice 16: I'd like to introduce

[0:17:11] Voice 16: the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee,

[0:17:13] Voice 16: Trustees Deb Morrison and Eric Campbell.

[0:17:15] Voice 16: I'd like to introduce Island Trust planning staff,

[0:17:18] Voice 16: Robert Kojima.

[0:17:19] Voice 16: I guess that's just because you're dealing with this file.

[0:17:21] Voice 16: Yeah.

[0:17:22] Voice 16: We're ignoring Brad for the time being.

[0:17:23] Voice 16: Okay, and meditation and recorded path talk.

[0:17:28] Voice 16: So we start off.

[0:17:29] Voice 16: The public hearing is being presented to section 465

[0:17:34] Voice 16: of a local government act

[0:17:35] Voice 16: in order to consider the following proposed bylaws proposed bylaw number 232 senate north

[0:17:40] Voice 16: pender associated islands the land use bylaw number 148 2003 amendment number one 2002

[0:17:47] Voice 16: all people who believe persons who believe their interests in property affected by the proposed

[0:17:52] Voice 16: bylaws will be given a reasonable opportunity to be heard or be present with or to present

[0:17:59] them written submissions respecting matters contained in the proposed violence

[0:18:03] Voice 16: those wishing

[0:18:04] Voice 16: to speech commence their presentation by clearly stating their name and address members of the

[0:18:10] Voice 16: local trust committee if they wish may ask questions of you following your presentation

[0:18:15] Voice 16: however the main function of local trust committee members is to listen to the views of the public it

[0:18:20] Voice 16: is not the function that the committee members debate the merits of the proposed violence with

[0:18:23] Voice 16: individual citizens everyone will be given reasonable opportunity to be heard and none

[0:18:28] Voice 16: shall be still discouraged from presenting his or her views in considering the proposed bylaws

[0:18:33] Voice 16: the local trust committee has received documents which may influence this decision those documents

[0:18:39] Voice 16: are available for review during this hearing on our website and as indicated in the public hearing

[0:18:44] Voice 16: notice any persons who wish to present wooden submissions the local trust committee may do so

[0:18:51] and all written submissions must be received by local trust committee before the close of this

[0:18:55] hearing um your only opportunity to commit to the on the proposed comment on the proposed

[0:19:01] bylaws is during this hearing

[0:19:02] Voice 16: all members of the local trust committee may not receive further

[0:19:05] Voice 16: submission after close to this hearing after the public hearing is conducted it has concluded the

[0:19:12] Voice 16: local trust committee may without further notice make whatever decision it means proper with

[0:19:17] Voice 16: respect to the bylaws this is subject to the public hearing so now we're off to

[0:19:24] Voice 16: I

[0:19:25] Voice 6: will uh I've got about four things to quickly summarize before we open the public hearing

[0:19:30] Voice 6: so the first one is the notice as I mentioned is a notice of public hearing um it's been published

[0:19:36] Voice 6: and posted as required by the local government act and around local trust committees by law

[0:19:43] Voice 6: we've also got an extra step and mailed notice to all owners on title on sydney island

[0:19:49] Voice 6: the strata lots um that's not a statutory requirement in this case um i'll quickly

[0:19:56] Voice 6: summarize the general purpose of the bylaw so this is an application by the sydney island

[0:20:02] Voice 6: strata corporation it would amend bylaw 148 which is the figure associated islands by these bylaw

[0:20:09] Voice 6: it would only amend it as it um affects the residential lots on sydney island that's the

[0:20:16] Voice 6: only portion of the bylaw that would be amended. It would be amended to permit the use of recreational

[0:20:21] Voice 6: vehicles as a dwelling one per lot for up to four years at a time or four years per lot.

[0:20:30] Voice 6: The recreational vehicles must comply with all siting regulations must be protected septic

[0:20:43] Voice 6: In addition to the

[0:20:45] Voice 6: recreational vehicles, the bylaws have also to be constructed before

[0:20:48] Voice 6: dwelling on the City Island residential lots and

[0:20:52] Voice 10: what's

[0:20:56] Voice 6: referred to as Hunter's Cabin.

[0:20:59] Voice 6: but it's on Sydney Island Cabinets.

[0:21:02] Voice 6: So that's the general purpose of the bylaw.

[0:21:05] Voice 6: Like all bylaws, it's been referred to potentially affected agencies

[0:21:08] Voice 6: and all first nations.

[0:21:10] Voice 6: We got a couple of responses from agencies.

[0:21:14] Voice 6: So the Capital Regional District Building Inspection responded,

[0:21:18] Voice 6: noting that they do not support permitting RVs as a dwelling

[0:21:22] Voice 6: as they cannot obtain building permits.

[0:21:26] Voice 6: Island Health responded that their interests are unaffected,

[0:21:29] Voice 6: Main Island

[0:21:31] Voice 6: Local Trust Committee responded their interests

[0:21:33] Voice 6: are unaffected as did

[0:21:35] Voice 6: Salt Spring Island and

[0:21:37] Voice 6: Tender Island Local Trust Committees

[0:21:38] Voice 6: and the Island Trust Conservancy Board

[0:21:41] Voice 6: met

[0:21:42] Voice 6: a couple days ago and they

[0:21:45] Voice 6: responded that their interests are unaffected

[0:21:47] Voice 6: by the bylaw. They've added a

[0:21:49] Voice 6: request that the Local Trust Committee

[0:21:51] Voice 6: consider future regulations

[0:21:53] Voice 6: that would increase buffers

[0:21:55] Voice 6: and other protection measures

[0:21:56] Voice 6: measures for Islands Trust Conservancy conservation areas this has been added as a to a list of

[0:22:05] Voice 6: potential events there were no First Nations responses and finally public submissions received

[0:22:12] Voice 6: to yesterday at 4 30 we received four public submissions all in support of the amendment

[0:22:19] Voice 6: and all that information is in the public hearing binder which was

[0:22:34] Voice 16: um submissions can be made anytime during and until the close of the hearing if any submissions

[0:22:40] Voice 16: are received during the meeting we will pause prior to closing to ensure the ltc has had time

[0:22:46] Voice 16: to review these submissions i'd like members of the public who wish to speak to line up

[0:22:52] Voice 16: um please take your name prior to making comments ask your presentation to the ltc the trustees may

[0:22:58] Voice 16: ask you questions but they are primarily here to listen and will not debate the issues with you

[0:23:03] Voice 16: i will call three times for speakers before closing the hearing at which point no further

[0:23:07] Voice 16: written or horrible submissions can be made all right so we seem to have a pause in our script

[0:23:17] Voice 16: here.

[0:23:18] Voice 15: Let's open the floor for submissions. Yes, so if anybody has submissions, any comments

[0:23:27] Voice 16: on

[0:23:28] Voice 18: this? Oh, if I could, my name is Daphne Herman. I'm from Sydney Island. This is Lisa Cowan. She's

[0:23:36] Voice 18: my colleague on the committee. We're representing the proponents on this application. The primary

[0:23:43] Voice 18: The primary reason for the application is the lack of viable alternatives for accommodations on Sydney Island.

[0:23:51] Voice 18: There's no commercial accommodations. Up until recently, there was no long-term rentals.

[0:23:59] Voice 18: You can now do a long-term rental, but you probably won't find one on Sydney Island.

[0:24:04] Voice 18: which left us driving to and from a hotel or motel in Sydney on a boat, burning fuel unnecessarily.

[0:24:13] Voice 18: This is primarily intended for new owners who want to get to know their lot before they cut down a bunch of trees and go,

[0:24:21] Voice 18: gee, I wish I had spent more time here and not cut down those trees as an example.

[0:24:25] Voice 18: So just allowing them to get to know their lot in the pre-build phase.

[0:24:31] Voice 18: So, we did conduct a couple of surveys and just in summary, 83% of the survey respondents

[0:24:43] Voice 18: support in some manner, the expansion of use of recreational vehicles on Sydney Island.

[0:24:52] Voice 18: There was a very strong opposition to having permanency of, I believe it was at 71%.

[0:25:01] Voice 18: did not want this um recreational vehicles to be used with no limits no time limit so we with

[0:25:08] Voice 18: working with uh mr kojima's staff arrived at four years based on the survey results so that's that's

[0:25:17] Voice 18: in essence the uh the reason for the application and um and uh we believe we have a uh i guess a

[0:25:24] Voice 18: social license within the island to make this application and uh it was made last year by

[0:25:29] Voice 18: by the Strata Corporation based on a number of community

[0:25:32] Voice 18: meetings or one community meeting in particular

[0:25:35] Voice 18: in a number of surveys.

[0:25:38] Voice 16: Thank

[0:25:38] Voice 18: you very much.

[0:25:39] Voice 16: Any questions for the trustees?

[0:25:41] Voice 16: I'll just ask, are there any other speakers?

[0:25:49] Voice 16: I'll ask once again for the second time,

[0:25:55] Voice 16: are there any other speakers on this?

[0:25:58] Voice 16: Make sure there's nothing on the line.

[0:26:01] Voice 16: And we'll ask for a third time if there's anybody

[0:26:03] Voice 16: who wishes to speak on this.

[0:26:05] Voice 16: This is now the final opportunity for you to hand

[0:26:07] Voice 16: a written submission to local trust committee.

[0:26:09] Voice 16: committee once the hearing is closed no initial submissions will be accepted and we'll confirm

[0:26:13] Voice 16: once again there's nothing online so at this point we will um please be advised that we're

[0:26:21] Voice 16: now in the post public hearing stage of the legislative review of the post proposed bylaw 232

[0:26:26] northland local trust committee can now no longer receive information pertaining to the proposed

[0:26:33] bylaw however you may you can still submit

[0:26:36] Voice 16: any outstanding questions or comments directly to

[0:26:38] Voice 16: the planner the ltc may give further readings to the bylaw or defeat the bylaw or make minor

[0:26:43] Voice 16: amendments do not affect the user density without further notices or hearings all right thank you

[0:26:49] so we will now reconvene our andrew island local trust committee

[0:26:56] Voice 16: and we have our minutes before us so we have a series of minutes we have minutes from january

[0:27:03] Voice 16: week 20th 2023 any comments or there's

[0:27:07] Voice 8: an error we

[0:27:08] Voice 16: have an error so

[0:27:10] Voice 8: that's the january 20th so

[0:27:15] Voice 8: there's an error on um page 11 of this packet yeah it's page 11 of the packet page eight of

[0:27:24] Voice 8: nine of the meeting notes and it says question raised to why information regarding barn would

[0:27:30] Voice 8: not be available to public i believe that was farm not far the question that was raised was about why

[0:27:36] Voice 8: farm was not no

[0:27:38] Voice 4: i thought it was um choice that

[0:27:41] Voice 8: her question was asking why we wouldn't

[0:27:44] be releasing the legal decision on the on

[0:27:50] Voice 4: the on that on the granting of

[0:27:55] Voice 7: Yeah, she

[0:27:55] Voice 4: did ask that, too.

[0:27:57] Voice 7: And

[0:27:58] Voice 4: it was bad, maybe, responded to that.

[0:28:05] Voice 8: So she asked that as well, but she also specifically restated her concern that farm wasn't defined.

[0:28:13] Voice 3: Yeah.

[0:28:13] Voice 3: And

[0:28:14] Voice 8: that really should be captured in that note.

[0:28:16] Voice 8: So I think you're right that she did ask about that.

[0:28:18] Voice 10: Yeah, she did.

[0:28:19] Voice 8: that she also asked so we could add an additional sentence just that she um stated that farm needs

[0:28:26] Voice 8: to be defined and uh right

[0:28:30] Voice 16: so that wasn't captured in the public questions that

[0:28:35] Voice 8: was her one of her

[0:28:36] Voice 8: primary points that she was trying to get at yeah i didn't see that captured in the beginning there

[0:28:40] Voice 8: she did talk about barnes and rural residential land but it was

[0:28:44] Voice 8: all around like there was a big

[0:28:45] Voice 8: part of that was rotating around the definition of farm so if i think if we're on page eight we

[0:28:54] Voice 8: can or sorry page eight of nine in the meeting minute notes which is page 11 of this packet

[0:28:59] Voice 8: we can add an additional statement to the minutes for um where it says barn just after that sentence

[0:29:10] Voice 8: and also a clarification of or a desire to have farm defined in the land use by one

[0:29:18] Voice 8: so pat

[0:29:21] Voice 16: have you got that captured yeah i've

[0:29:27] Voice 8: got that thank you

[0:29:28] Voice 8: very much thank you that was a

[0:29:29] Voice 8: wide-ranging conversation

[0:29:31] Voice 16: so okay so otherwise my consensus we can adopt those

[0:29:36] Voice 16: then we have the special meeting minutes of february 10th those are all okay

[0:29:43] say by consent we'll adopt those um special meeting of february 25th

[0:29:47] again by consent we can adopt those

[0:29:49] Voice 16: um resolutions without means we did not have any

[0:29:53] Voice 16: advisory planning committee minutes we don't have any this is arising from the minutes we have

[0:30:00] Voice 16: um follow-up action with uh march

[0:30:04] Voice 19: 2023 so just to clarify 9.2 and 9.3 are fine as yes

[0:30:11] Voice 19: the

[0:30:25] Voice 3: ones

[0:30:38] Voice 19: that are uh outdated there's a few that are yesterday

[0:30:43] Voice 19: yesterday.

[0:30:44] Voice 3: So the first three or four. The 28th

[0:30:56] Voice 19: of January one, the 27th of May one. And we also

[0:31:00] Voice 19: removed the 27th of January one for a meeting request with fire.

[0:31:06] Voice 7: As we were

[0:31:07] Voice 19: honestly, well, Phil Phil didn't pass it on to me, but he put my name beside it. So

[0:31:22] um so my understanding of that originally was just around what we may want to

[0:31:28] Voice 8: have like it

[0:31:30] Voice 8: would be helpful to have a conversation with our department about the tp's to get related to stvrs

[0:31:35] Voice 8: about what components they would like to see in that like if we can bring some examples of

[0:31:39] Voice 8: the STVR packets that they give out to community members

[0:31:43] Voice 8: and have a part of our public overdose

[0:31:44] Voice 8: and see if there's other things that they would suggest. So we can sort of revise the suggested

[0:31:49] Voice 8: examples we have for STVR TEP applicants. And frankly, even just to put that type of information

[0:31:57] Voice 8: up on our North Tender site, because there's people who are operating STVRs as a home-based

[0:32:01] Voice 8: business, so they don't have to apply for TEP. It would be good that they have that information.

[0:32:08] Voice 8: so because right now you really only get a hand of that information if you're applying for a TAP

[0:32:13] Voice 8: so the STVRs that are operating on these businesses nobody that information is not a

[0:32:19] Voice 8: packet that people can get examples of because we would like to have our STVR visitors have a

[0:32:28] Voice 8: packet that contains different kinds of things fire prevention but I

[0:32:33] Voice 19: don't think that unique

[0:32:35] Voice 19: that's

[0:32:35] Voice 8: right but we have examples from other people that have done in the past and that's

[0:32:39] Voice 8: generally what has been passed forward to new people and it is like examples of others it would

[0:32:44] Voice 8: be nice to try and synthesize an example i am quite happy to try and do that um as opposed to

[0:32:50] Voice 8: putting it all on staff but it would be nice to get a synthesized example but before we go that

[0:32:56] Voice 8: far it would be nice to actually have a part with some prior examples and see like that works that

[0:33:01] Voice 8: doesn't like you know like get some feedback so

[0:33:05] Voice 3: i'll create a new security that would be helpful

[0:33:09] Voice 8: there's probably a larger conversation with the fire department too i don't know

[0:33:12] Voice 8: like to think about this but historically we have had uh meetings with the fire department

[0:33:18] Voice 8: at different times just to be able to talk about like like for instance the water system like

[0:33:24] Voice 8: access to ponds as we're starting to you know stand pipes on cisterns it would be good to just

[0:33:32] Voice 8: name because there's the fire department so it'd be good to also have that agenda

[0:33:38] Voice 19: on your public agenda

[0:33:40] Voice 8: with the fire department like have two two or three different topics that

[0:33:44] Voice 8: we might want to cover and the trustees meeting with the program yeah i think that would be

[0:33:48] Voice 8: helpful so it

[0:33:49] Voice 7: would have to be a public meeting if it's interesting

[0:33:52] Voice 7: if any

[0:33:53] Voice 3: it's advancing any

[0:33:55] Voice 3: ltc business it's just engaging information

[0:33:57] Voice 8: i'm going to absolutely say no we've done it before

[0:34:02] Voice 8: that would be awesome if we could like and i

[0:34:05] Voice 8: mean like you can set it up or we can just like

[0:34:07] Voice 8: phone them up and say hey come up and have coffee like i'm trying

[0:34:09] Voice 8: to do that too depends if you

[0:34:11] Voice 6: want to be it'll be easier yeah

[0:34:13] Voice 8: so i think you could take it off your list but what it would

[0:34:16] Voice 8: be helpful to have from you to do that would be like any examples that you have of the stdr packets

[0:34:22] Voice 8: if you could just email them to us and then we can bring them what

[0:34:25] Voice 19: should we mean by the packets

[0:34:27] Voice 19: The

[0:34:27] Voice 8: information packet comes in with two pieces.

[0:34:30] Voice 19: So this is like with the submissions coming in, this would be what the applicants are

[0:34:35] Voice 19: provided to us as examples, as

[0:34:37] Voice 8: what they give to their clients.

[0:34:38] Voice 8: That's it.

[0:34:39] Voice 8: So if we had a couple examples of that, just the like, just that piece, I don't want the

[0:34:44] Voice 8: whole permits and all that kind of stuff, just the pieces of what they're handing out

[0:34:46] Voice 8: to their clients, that would be helpful to take those examples up to the

[0:34:49] Voice 7: part time and

[0:34:50] Voice 7: just get feedback

[0:34:51] Voice 4: and then throw it back in.

[0:34:51] Voice 4: and get more of this like get more of a standardized almost like form that goes into

[0:35:00] Voice 4: i

[0:35:00] Voice 8: don't need to like like their own creative visions of it but just give them a couple ideas

[0:35:05] Voice 8: of some core things we'd like to see in that like as a community that'd be helpful because people

[0:35:10] Voice 8: ask us for that all the time like when the tp applicants like come to us they ask us for like

[0:35:15] Voice 8: what kinds of things we're looking for generally in

[0:35:17] Voice 8: our bylaws it says you have to include this

[0:35:19] Voice 8: type of information like examples of what that looks like so it would be helpful to provide some

[0:35:25] Voice 8: examples of what that looks like um and but i'm not a fire expert i'm not

[0:35:32] Voice 4: sure what they would

[0:35:34] Voice 4: like

[0:35:34] Voice 8: where do you keep your fire how many fire extinguishers where that kind of thing

[0:35:38] Voice 8: are there i don't know there's stuff that they might want to add the idea of

[0:35:43] Voice 8: outdoor fires like

[0:35:44] Voice 8: there's that comes up in those packets like yeah

[0:35:46] Voice 4: can you have it so it's so regulated on the island

[0:35:49] Voice 4: and in general it wouldn't change it wouldn't change anything for because it's an stv order

[0:35:57] Voice 8: no that's right but it's just a communication tool with them so they may actually have like

[0:36:02] Voice 8: part of our we already have

[0:36:03] Voice 8: something that we just include

[0:36:04] Voice 4: okay that's what i was asking was

[0:36:06] Voice 8: to get more of

[0:36:07] Voice 4: those standardized kind of a reply they've got something that they could add yeah but

[0:36:13] Voice 8: right now we don't require we don't even suggest that that would be done so we could actually know

[0:36:18] Voice 8: that yeah

[0:36:19] Voice 3: thank you okay so that's it for thank you and then anything else in the follow-up

[0:36:30] Voice 3: straightforward there's a few lenders letters

[0:36:41] Voice 19: that are still with stuff to work on

[0:36:43] Voice 19: kim and i talked about those yesterday yeah nothing else right now all

[0:36:49] Voice 16: right thank you um

[0:36:50] Voice 16: so we move on to correspondence um do we have some correspondence with regards to tree cutting um

[0:37:00] Voice 16: anything want to address with those letters specifically or just receive those well i have

[0:37:05] Voice 7: a question about i don't know if this is better

[0:37:09] Voice 8: discussed somewhere else in uh agenda but i had

[0:37:12] Voice 8: a question about given the um longer conversation but is there something that we want to write to

[0:37:23] Voice 8: anybody as an ftc around the you know the concerns that the community members have expressed and i

[0:37:32] Voice 8: I mean it's the challenges that we've had it multiple ways right like some people think that

[0:37:37] Voice 8: individual property rights will do what they want on their property that particular issue that we

[0:37:42] Voice 8: had there around the schooner property is particularly an issue because a significant

[0:37:49] Voice 8: portion of an existing dpa was cut right so that's not so much about this literally like

[0:37:56] Voice 8: Like we were broken, a bylaw was broken in what was done.

[0:38:00] Voice 8: So that's our own business to deal with.

[0:38:03] Voice 8: But I kind of wonder, is there some conversation we want to have about our response to that

[0:38:10] Voice 8: type of thing to the province?

[0:38:11] Voice 8: So one of the suggestions I have is we didn't have a community information meeting this

[0:38:15] Voice 8: time, but in our April meeting, we could open up the community information meeting and just

[0:38:19] Voice 8: ask that question of the community.

[0:38:21] Voice 8: like is there some response you want your ltc to make to the province for instance or to others

[0:38:27] Voice 8: because i don't know what that would be and it might just be a description of what's happening

[0:38:33] Voice 8: like it might not be a statement advocating anything one way or the other just a statement

[0:38:37] Voice 8: of what's happening um the communications with paul brent um by email sounded like

[0:38:45] Voice 8: the crt might have

[0:38:47] Voice 8: the residual like in some of the emails that have come so i'm wondering

[0:38:56] Voice 8: if

[0:38:58] Voice 4: you go to uh like city center or wherever and that is in the capital regional district

[0:39:07] they have they have the ability to direct that stuff right like they they hold it

[0:39:16] Voice 4: if we aren't given it wouldn't it defer to them and if we don't have it like somebody

[0:39:25] Voice 4: out right it's like if it's if it's if it diminishes down to us and we don't and who

[0:39:35] Voice 4: does and where do those authorities overlap you

[0:39:43] Voice 16: can explain but as far as i understand um

[0:39:45] Voice 16: local regional districts don't have tree cutting authority either correct yeah

[0:39:49] Voice 6: so the power resides

[0:39:51] Voice 6: constitutionally with the province to control forestry and tree cutting and so on at the

[0:39:58] Voice 6: provincial level they've delegated that authority to municipalities through the ability for

[0:40:04] Voice 6: municipalities to adopt the tree cutting bylaw they have not delegated that authority to non-municipal

[0:40:10] Voice 6: governments or regional districts local trust communities

[0:40:15] Voice 8: yeah so we're getting conflicting

[0:40:20] Voice 19: um so i'm just looking at the ubcm resolution and this is an

[0:40:24] Voice 19: ongoing issue at ubcm with

[0:40:27] Voice 19: uh unincorporated areas seeking the same powers as municipalities tree cutting animal control is

[0:40:34] Voice 19: the one that comes up a lot uh just to read uh the provincial response here so

[0:40:42] Voice 19: regional districts can use development permit powers and tree cutting permits to limit the

[0:40:46] Voice 19: cutting of trees related to environmental protection and hazard protection issues

[0:40:52] Voice 19: here's the difference municipalities have the same lga development permit powers but under

[0:40:57] Voice 19: the community charter they have broader powers to regulate prohibit and impose additional requirements

[0:41:02] Voice 19: related to trees for example some municipal tree protection bylaws require protection removal

[0:41:06] Voice 19: replanting and replacement of trees so i think the powers that

[0:41:10] Voice 19: municipalities have are broader

[0:41:12] Voice 19: than the authorities that you are limited to regional districts are limited to and so that

[0:41:22] Voice 19: is the power that uh regional districts have been seeking those broader authorities under

[0:41:26] Voice 19: the community charter whereas the powers for the regional districts are only enabled

[0:41:30] Voice 19: central sand edge of course you might have seen the

[0:41:38] article in the times columnist about the they lost a court case

[0:41:43] um where's

[0:41:44] Voice 6: the one if you go electoral area who passed suit is unincorporated

[0:41:48] Voice 6: so they would not have so

[0:41:54] Voice 8: maybe one of the ways to do that is actually

[0:41:56] Voice 8: just to have like i think there's a needed conversation across these different levels

[0:42:03] Voice 8: of government just to name because my issue is i just want to sure be sure that we're getting

[0:42:16] Voice 8: and like our dpa violation that's a totally different issue we have to deal with that's

[0:42:20] Voice 8: our problem but the remainder of the questions that are happening around sort of and and in this

[0:42:26] Voice 8: case it's not the forest management issue that's a whole nother level of issue this case it's about

[0:42:32] Voice 8: like it's connected on some of the bigger properties but the magic lake related conversation

[0:42:37] Voice 8: has been on the smaller properties right and that's not so much from a larger forest protection

[0:42:41] Voice 8: perspective. It's like, you know, when do the community rights of people around forested areas come into play versus private property owners that can strip every tree off their land, right?

[0:42:53] Voice 8: And, you know, in an area that's for ecological protection and preservation, is there any difference?

[0:42:59] Voice 4: I

[0:43:00] Voice 8: mean, in

[0:43:01] Voice 4: Magic Lake though, is there anything that hasn't been altered twice?

[0:43:10] Voice 4: I'm just saying there's varying degrees of what it ends up being.

[0:43:24] Voice 8: The argument that you've cut something and therefore it's not in a natural state doesn't

[0:43:30] Voice 8: mean we can't restore it to a natural state and or that we want to keep tree cover that's

[0:43:35] Voice 8: not in a natural forested state but that has value from a bird or biodiversity perspective

[0:43:40] Voice 8: or other types of functions so it's like there's a lot of different arguments for having tree cover

[0:43:47] Voice 8: you

[0:43:47] Voice 7: know keeping

[0:43:48] Voice 8: cooler like there's a lot of different things and cities are

[0:43:53] Voice 8: arguing you know different ways um you know so i don't know and this is not a simple conversation

[0:44:02] Voice 8: that we're going to solve i think the 10 minutes that we want to talk about it now i guess my

[0:44:06] Voice 8: question is how are we as an LTC communicating the voice of community that's coming in on the

[0:44:13] Voice 8: various dimensions of this like not oversimplifying it but actually holding the complexity of how

[0:44:18] Voice 8: people speak about this and how are we communicating that to other levels of government that's my

[0:44:22] Voice 8: question

[0:44:22] Voice 19: let's talk about the question I was going to answer something like this

[0:44:29] Voice 19: um i was going to say this is on your agenda later on

[0:44:35] Voice 19: memo that i provided okay i think uh like the provincial response goes on to say

[0:44:43] Voice 19: what i read

[0:44:44] Voice 19: you was the provincial response to ubcx uh resolution the uh the provincial response

[0:44:53] Voice 19: goes on to say the consideration of expanding regional district powers to regulate tree cutting

[0:44:58] Voice 19: in rural areas designated for urban expansion should be balanced with support for working

[0:45:02] Voice 19: forces private and crown land ministry recognizes that regional districts can face unique challenges

[0:45:07] Voice 19: that may require customized solutions given the complexity of the issue and the issue of tree

[0:45:11] Voice 19: protection is of particular interest to some regional districts the minister will continue

[0:45:15] Voice 19: to monitor issues as they run so that says

[0:45:17] Voice 19: to me that the minister is not going to move anytime

[0:45:20] Voice 19: soon on providing broader authorities for regional districts at least and maybe you can make a

[0:45:25] Voice 19: special case that the others trust is why and that's a different uh discussion but i think that

[0:45:31] Voice 19: you if you really want to protect trees on your own your best tool at this point is to look at

[0:45:38] Voice 19: so

[0:45:38] Voice 8: and i'm with you but i do agree that's a later conversation the conversation i'm really

[0:45:43] Voice 8: curious about now is how do we communicate the multiple sort of voices that we're hearing

[0:45:49] Voice 8: community because like part of our job is to coordinate between other levels of government

[0:45:55] Voice 8: with and our job frankly i don't think is to completely solve this problem because it is like

[0:46:00] Voice 8: a multi-layered problem but we should be coordinating communicating clearly uh like

[0:46:05] Voice 8: the different voices and concerns our community is having so i'm wondering if we can like taking

[0:46:10] Voice 8: all the correspondence and the conversations that we've been having around this if there's a way for

[0:46:15] Voice 8: us and i know i'm sorry but if there's a way for us to create like a synthesis ladder that we can

[0:46:22] Voice 8: consider as an LTC forwarding to the different levels of government because I feel like community

[0:46:26] Voice 8: members are like there's a lack of clarity on who we're supposed to be speaking to like at the

[0:46:32] Voice 8: different levels of government as community and that's our job as local government to help

[0:46:36] Voice 8: coordinate that with the right levels of government so I'm wondering if we can just write a

[0:46:40] Voice 8: synthesis type thing that doesn't advocate for one perspective or another just here's our mandate

[0:46:46] Voice 8: here's all the stuff we're hearing in community can we have a conversation about how to solve

[0:46:50] Voice 8: this issue like how to have a conversation about this issue and coordinate it

[0:46:55] Voice 16: maybe that's the

[0:46:57] Voice 16: reason is is the appropriate con the ltc to to go up to um higher levels of government or is that

[0:47:07] Voice 16: through trust counsel or through the executive so

[0:47:10] Voice 6: if you're asking for something like powers

[0:47:13] Voice 6: or authority that's definitely trust council but

[0:47:15] Voice 16: as far as far as the conduit goes as far as like

[0:47:17] Voice 16: feeding information to those other bodies like what's the conduit can we do it directly

[0:47:24] we already sort

[0:47:25] Voice 4: of have the ability to have a dialogue with with paul right and adam also

[0:47:31] Voice 4: and maybe it's as simple as as that yep just

[0:47:35] Voice 4: to have just having a conflict having a conversation

[0:47:38] Voice 4: putting putting a letter out they're both i think fairly aware of what the challenges have been

[0:47:44] Voice 4: yeah especially

[0:47:45] Voice 4: in the last little while paul was here for one of those meetings and adam was just

[0:47:50] Voice 4: here last night yeah

[0:47:52] Voice 8: i think the advantage of doing a synthesized letter of this voice and

[0:47:57] Voice 8: naming it is we're going to hit not just the elected officials nothing against either paul

[0:48:01] Voice 8: or adam but i need the people in the bureaucracies to also be in that conversation because especially

[0:48:07] Voice 8: in adam's situation adam is not necessarily the person who has any kind of control over that issue

[0:48:13] Voice 8: so i need the i need to us to send the letter not only to our elected officials at those levels but

[0:48:19] Voice 8: to the bureaucrats whose job it is to do that work do you know what i mean because like we can't ask

[0:48:26] Voice 1: i

[0:48:26] Voice 8: don't want all their powers necessarily right like what i want is i want something done in our

[0:48:31] Voice 8: community to address the issue that we're seeing and even to have the issue clearly defined in

[0:48:36] Voice 8: community and have that conversation with those layers of government but

[0:48:39] Voice 4: how do you how do you

[0:48:41] Voice 4: how do you request something to be done in a divided situation well

[0:48:46] Voice 8: like have a conversation

[0:48:48] Voice 8: right like we could just literally synthesize all the different conversation that's all i'm asking

[0:48:53] Voice 8: for at this point we just synthesize the conversation and ask those different layers

[0:48:57] Voice 8: of government to like try to come in and have a coordinated conversation over the next year

[0:49:02] Voice 8: or so like in community right because part of the problem we're having and i think george was right

[0:49:07] Voice 8: like when we were talking about other things is like we need to be really clear on what we think

[0:49:13] Voice 8: the problems in our community are that across these layers of government and we need to not

[0:49:17] Voice 8: put that on any one individual and community to sort it all out like that's our job our job is

[0:49:22] Voice 8: to try and help coordinate other levels of government right i think

[0:49:25] Voice 19: that's a suggestion

[0:49:27] Voice 19: what i'm hearing is that well i think if you like if you're talking about an advocacy letter i mean

[0:49:33] Voice 19: it might be useful to write something to your to mr olsen and the other politicians to document

[0:49:43] Voice 19: these concerns are occurring uh i think that letter would come from the local trust committee

[0:49:49] Voice 19: yourselves not from staff and with respect to directing the bureaucracy to do something well

[0:49:56] Voice 19: that bureaucracy is not going to be directed unless they get direction from those politicians

[0:50:00] Voice 6: so i

[0:50:01] Voice 19: think what i'm hearing is that uh or what might be at least to put on record your concerns

[0:50:09] Voice 19: just that you dropped a letter to those politicians saying these are our concerns

[0:50:14] Voice 19: continue this dialogue and

[0:50:17] Voice 8: i wouldn't want to name our concerns because the concerns are multiple

[0:50:20] Voice 8: and like sometimes conflicting in our community what i want to name is that there are there is

[0:50:29] Voice 8: there are issues that are related to forest management and potentially we can say tree

[0:50:36] Voice 8: cutting because i know the province names it that way so in in our community and we really want to

[0:50:40] Voice 8: have a coordinated conversation among the levels of government are

[0:50:44] Voice 4: there other specific people

[0:50:48] Voice 4: that you're thinking like that you're thinking of that letter needs to go do we know who those

[0:50:54] Voice 3: who the other recipients are that brad saying is sort of is if you want to get it

[0:51:05] Voice 4: it's like when

[0:51:06] Voice 4: a letter went to adam olson and then adam also sent it to two or three other parts to get a

[0:51:13] Voice 4: response from them yeah and

[0:51:15] Voice 4: then we saw and then we saw the responses from each of the

[0:51:18] Voice 4: each of the different ministries i guess and

[0:51:26] Voice 8: i think your point is that it's better to go to

[0:51:30] Voice 8: the elected politician and to ask them to i think the ask we have is we would like the relevant

[0:51:36] Voice 8: people in your governments to come into conversation with us that's the ask

[0:51:40] Voice 8: but

[0:51:41] Voice 4: i agree like the letter we can ask that the letter would go to those people to ask like say

[0:51:49] Voice 4: hey look this is yeah these are the challenges we're having like yeah we get some way in on a

[0:51:55] Voice 4: from a higher

[0:51:55] Voice 16: level yeah yeah

[0:51:57] Voice 4: i think that's right so

[0:51:58] Voice 16: do you want to you want to sort of

[0:51:59] Voice 16: draft something up

[0:51:59] Voice 7: next meeting unfortunately i was hoping to actually talk earlier this week

[0:52:03] Voice 7: but it's a hellish week so sorry for the on-the-fly motion so what would that sound like

[0:52:07] Voice 16: i don't think it'd be a motion that's why maybe you just want to draft something up

[0:52:11] Voice 16: if it's going to come to the local trust committee no no

[0:52:13] Voice 8: the letter is not right now but the letter

[0:52:15] Voice 8: would be is it a letter for us to write it or i would

[0:52:18] Voice 6: think at this point yeah yeah you could

[0:52:20] Voice 6: grab something and then bring it back to the eltis okay so we have some community i don't

[0:52:26] Voice 16: it's a motion just we would agree that something like that okay that works yep and stuff could

[0:52:34] Voice 19: help facilitate the administrative sending of that book

[0:52:37] Voice 8: yeah okay so we'll iterate on it and

[0:52:40] Voice 8: i can iterate with you to see what that sounds like perfect

[0:52:42] Voice 16: all right um moving forward we have

[0:52:46] applications of referrals. The first one is

[0:52:50] Voice 16: NPRZ

[0:52:52] Voice 10: 2022

[0:52:54] Voice 16: .1 Sydney Island Strata Corporation

[0:52:57] Voice 16: proposed bylaw number 232 post public hearing staff.

[0:53:06] Voice 3: Thank you. So

[0:53:08] Voice 6: it's on the agenda

[0:53:08] Voice 3: here in referral for

[0:53:10] Voice 6: the bylaw executive committee.

[0:53:12] Voice 6: Obviously the public hearing is not in the details of the bylaw.

[0:53:15] Voice 6: This is received from the background a number of times.

[0:53:18] Voice 6: um i will just briefly comment on the referral response from building inspection

[0:53:24] Voice 6: um so their response was they don't support the use of rvs as uh recreational vehicles

[0:53:31] Voice 6: they were not compliant with the pc building code for residential use rvs are designed for

[0:53:36] Voice 6: short-term camping use um i just point out that given the nature of sydney island

[0:53:45] Voice 6: likely to be occupied year round. It really will be in the summer and if not you know just for a

[0:53:52] Voice 6: couple weeks in the summer and some weekends I would think. So they're closer to what the design

[0:54:01] Voice 6: factors are for it would be used more in line with what the design and the other comments about

[0:54:09] Voice 6: building codes and occupancy or building permits and occupancy for the other the hunters cabins

[0:54:21] Voice 6: So the local trust committee can consider amendments that don't affect the use or density

[0:54:26] Voice 3: or

[0:54:29] Voice 6: proceed with second or third reading as presented, forwarding to executive committee

[0:54:37] Voice 6: decide to proceed to go further, if you send it to executive committee, if the executive

[0:54:43] Voice 6: committee approves it, then we come back for consideration of the future meetings.

[0:54:48] Voice 7: what's this pleasure

[0:54:48] Voice 7: i'm good to go okay the

[0:54:52] Voice 8: north pender local trust committee by

[0:54:57] Voice 8: a lot number two three two seven this is the north pender associated islands land use file

[0:55:02] Voice 8: number one four eight two thousand three amendment number one should that be 2022 or 2023 the

[0:55:11] Voice 6: citation

[0:55:13] Voice 6: for the bylaw yeah it was drafted in 22. okay so

[0:55:16] Voice 8: 2022 we read a second time

[0:55:18] Voice 16: exactly any discussion

[0:55:20] Voice 16: call the question on the paper that carries that

[0:55:24] Voice 8: the north pender island local trust committee

[0:55:26] Voice 8: bylaw number 232 cited as north pender associated as land use bylaw number 148 2003 amendment number

[0:55:33] Voice 8: one 2022 be read a third time

[0:55:35] Voice 16: seconded in discussion call the question on the paper

[0:55:39] Voice 16: that carries that

[0:55:41] Voice 8: the north pender island local trust

[0:55:42] Voice 8: number three to be forwarded to the secretary of the islands trust

[0:55:54] Okay.

[0:55:55] Thank you.

[0:55:56] You're on your way.

[0:55:58] Sorry, I know I should know this, but I have a position called the Secretary of the Island

[0:56:03] Trust.

[0:56:04] Yes.

[0:56:05] Sorry.

[0:56:06] Okay.

[0:56:07] Voice 3: We had that discussion.

[0:56:08] Voice 3: Thank you.

[0:56:09] What was that?

[0:56:10] Voice 18: Thank you.

[0:56:11] Voice 18: Okay.

[0:56:11] Voice 18: We'll update you.

[0:56:13] Voice 18: Okay.

[0:56:16] Voice 18: Thank you.

[0:56:16] Voice 18: I just want to pass on my thanks again to all of the staff.

[0:56:21] Voice 18: It's a process, nice and clear and easy.

[0:56:24] Voice 18: Thank you.

[0:56:24] Voice 8: thank you and thank you for all the work on getting the letters and stuff like that it

[0:56:28] Voice 8: really helps us thank you and uh i was over for a visit let us know

[0:56:39] Voice 3: i know

[0:56:40] Voice 8: great community forest frankly i'm like yeah you guys are like a leader of how to do that

[0:56:45] Voice 8: work thank you thank

[0:56:49] Voice 16: you okay next up we have north pender tup 2022.5 sketch with the staff

[0:56:55] Voice 16: report attached so this would be better said uh

[0:57:01] Voice 19: so this is a temporary use permit application for the

[0:57:04] Voice 19: uh use of the property

[0:57:06] Voice 3: at one zero or one one zero one and

[0:57:12] Voice 3: is for uh the proposed temporary

[0:57:14] Voice 19: storage of personal these are familiar with the property

[0:57:16] Voice 19: and they've visited the site where sketch is in the audience today uh is uh using ship

[0:57:22] Voice 19: uh six shipping containers uh for storage

[0:57:25] Voice 3: purposes site

[0:57:31] Voice 19: uh uh

[0:57:33] Voice 19: in brief uh at this point staff are

[0:57:36] Voice 19: recommending that the local trust committee approve the issuance of the check radius permit

[0:57:41] Voice 19: when the uh proposed use is not consistent with the ocp as a long-term lead use as it's

[0:57:47] Voice 19: currently written mr sketch has sought uh rezoning of that property to allow

[0:57:51] Voice 19: out uh his storage use as a an outright use in the absence of a uh dwelling and uh three times

[0:58:02] Voice 19: the former or the previous trust committee uh uh turned that down staff have had a number of

[0:58:12] Voice 19: conversations with mr sketch uh trying to uh iterate that uh it's in that in staff's view

[0:58:18] Voice 19: it should be truly a temporary use of that some plan to unwind that use in the future

[0:58:25] Voice 19: whenever that may be uh would be uh at a bare minimum one staff would require

[0:58:30] Voice 19: for the application today mr sketch has been unable to provide a kind of plan to do that

[0:58:40] Voice 19: there has been some correspondence received there were five letters received in all

[0:58:43] Voice 19: three of them are in the package of fourth one was sent by the same person and then

[0:58:51] Voice 19: two other letters were received following the package submitted for the letters or

[0:58:57] Voice 19: for the uh neighbor neighbor properties that wrote in are unsupported with the application

[0:59:05] Voice 19: and there was one uh letter received uh in support you're so familiar with the the file

[0:59:12] Voice 19: is the property itself much more detailed uh put it back to local trust to have the discussion and

[0:59:21] Voice 16: mr sketch is in the audience here okay so if trustees if you want to engage or do you want to

[0:59:26] Voice 16: um hear from mr sketch usually

[0:59:29] Voice 8: we hear from the african

[0:59:30] Voice 16: okay so but

[0:59:31] Voice 8: it's up to you no it's the

[0:59:33] Voice 16: pleasure of the trustee so mr sketch you trustees

[0:59:45] Voice 11: and staff for this work on this um i have uh a

[0:59:49] Voice 11: three quarter page submission, if you would submit much of the material, but if you give me the time to do it, please, but if.

[1:00:00] Voice 11: I would understand if you'd rather get on with it.

[1:00:07] Voice 11: Trustees, I ask the LTC to grant my request

[1:00:10] Voice 11: for a three-year renewable temporary use permit

[1:00:14] Voice 11: to allow continued land use for structures

[1:00:18] Voice 11: which would be an accessory to residential use

[1:00:21] Voice 11: were there a residential principal use,

[1:00:25] Voice 11: namely screened shipping container storage

[1:00:28] Voice 11: of my personal possessions.

[1:00:29] Voice 11: sessions. My request for a variation of the RR zone regulation is modest. The footprint

[1:00:37] Voice 11: for the six medium size, that's 20 feet, shipping containers is less than 1% of the five and

[1:00:43] Voice 11: a quarter area parcel. A fence with rural character combined with a strip of small conifers

[1:00:50] Voice 11: and dense older trees screens the shipping containers from Andrew Place, which is a cul-de-sac

[1:00:56] Voice 11: with almost no traffic. I submit that my current use of land does not have an adverse effect on

[1:01:05] Voice 11: Stanley Point resident property owners respecting noise and nuisance or a visual aesthetic detriment

[1:01:12] Voice 11: or a change in neighborhood character given the fence and tree screening. I have been part owner

[1:01:21] Voice 11: owner of the end replaced parcel since 1968 and the sole owner since 1996. This is my home.

[1:01:29] Voice 11: In that time, I have been careful to preserve the beauty of the forest landscape. And I'm now going

[1:01:36] Voice 11: to address the hot potato issue of an application after the fact, which was very contentious in

[1:01:44] Voice 11: the deliberations of trustees in the past. I have been fortunate with rental accommodation on

[1:01:51] Voice 11: pender since 1995 and when in 2018 the luck ran out i had no choice in the two months available

[1:02:01] Voice 11: but to use my land contrary to the land use by law and apply for that use after the fact

[1:02:08] Voice 11: there was no north pender land zone for the purpose and storing my positions off

[1:02:14] Voice 11: possessions off island would be prohibitively onerous and expensive in that emergency

[1:02:21] Voice 11: circumstance, I don't believe my use of land establishes a precedent for misuse of land

[1:02:27] Voice 11: or offence to the land use bylaw.

[1:02:31] Voice 11: I had to move my possessions to long-term secure storage, which would not increase my

[1:02:37] Voice 11: monthly costs as I aged, and which was private

[1:02:42] Voice 3: and easily accessible.

[1:02:43] Voice 3: accessible. I now address the

[1:02:50] Voice 11: use of the word reticent in the staff report. The staff report

[1:02:56] Voice 11: comments that I am reticent to give a written plan to cease my present use of land outside

[1:03:02] Voice 11: the provisions of the land use by-law. However, I have been sincere in my reasons for not giving

[1:03:08] Voice 11: an undertaking to remove my stored possessions or otherwise satisfy the land use by-law.

[1:03:13] Voice 11: i cannot predict the long-term rental situation nor whether a change in financial circumstance

[1:03:21] Voice 11: will enable me to build a residence on that parcel thank you for considering and deliberating my

[1:03:28] Voice 3: application big trustees i'd love to hear your thoughts so much because this has been an ongoing

[1:03:44] Voice 3: i mean not having back history experience

[1:03:54] Voice 4: my was um it's i mean pender has changed a lot

[1:04:06] Voice 4: in the last few years even the people's ability to maintain a residence on the island

[1:04:11] Voice 4: i get that part of it sympathetic to that part of anybody's cause right now um for the outright

[1:04:25] right um right just approval of it i feel like sets that precedent in that if that is the is

[1:04:39] the way to go then might as well look at these only plan to allow it because that is basically

[1:04:47] the direction that you have to go is if you're

[1:04:50] Voice 4: going to say that somebody with no conditions can

[1:04:54] Voice 4: can have um

[1:04:56] Voice 3: can can

[1:04:57] Voice 4: use land that way it's just setting up a trickle-down effect that's gonna

[1:05:05] Voice 4: anybody that wants to start storing large quantities of belongings and it's no offense to

[1:05:15] just an

[1:05:17] Voice 4: actual situation where some somebody is in a bad spot with needing to store the

[1:05:23] Voice 4: long but i

[1:05:30] Voice 3: think that there has to be a plan in any kind of

[1:05:34] Voice 4: temporary use permit is because we

[1:05:39] Voice 4: see it go where somebody has a temporary use permit for three years six years nine years

[1:05:45] Voice 4: and then through the change in the trust count the local trust committee the idea changes or

[1:05:53] Voice 4: the circumstances change and somebody has been set basically falsely set up for a sense of security

[1:06:07] just like for temporary use for sort of approving out of a situation to

[1:06:15] Voice 3: decide if it isn't getting

[1:06:17] Voice 3: used so i think i mean i think i'll

[1:06:28] Voice 4: put it up my initial thought was to grant a three-year

[1:06:32] Voice 4: temporary the process in over the course of the three years but to have a requirement that for a

[1:06:51] Voice 4: plant either a plant increasing property with very use of it containers eat it over the course of

[1:07:15] Voice 3: of time so that we're moving in action as opposed to just sitting tools to to address any of that

[1:07:34] kind of stuff is just giving

[1:07:37] Voice 4: out temporary use permits to stop and having to deal with situations

[1:07:42] Voice 4: to them

[1:07:48] Voice 3: so where my mind goes and it comes and i know in the in the three days back up in our term

[1:08:00] Voice 4: this is something that we're going to see positive or negative effect of over the course of the next

[1:08:09] Voice 4: three years before our term is over so we also have the security aspect of seeing

[1:08:16] Voice 7: more decision

[1:08:20] Voice 7: so

[1:08:21] Voice 8: i think uh

[1:08:22] Voice 7: i have a couple questions so i

[1:08:29] Voice 8: guess the dilemma that we're facing

[1:08:32] Voice 8: is we understand the context understand the having to move things given the shifting housing

[1:08:41] Voice 8: situation and how difficult it that is the 2018 move to that site was a short-term need to just

[1:08:50] Voice 8: deal with something like in that moment but it's 2023 now and without a plan about like how

[1:08:57] Voice 8: given that there is not community support for shifting land use in that context it and i

[1:09:05] Voice 8: understand um mr sketch is trying to like find a way to make it be a use on that property but

[1:09:15] Voice 8: But generally, a land use by law or sorry, an acronym generator, sorry, a TUP is really intended for either two reasons we use TUPs really here.

[1:09:28] Voice 8: One is trying out the land use in a community context that shifted to understand, like if it's going to work.

[1:09:37] Voice 8: there's three actually one is a bylaw compliance move to like get to a place where we're going to

[1:09:43] Voice 8: have another form of activity or if somebody's going to comply with move back to this particular

[1:09:47] Voice 8: thing and the last one is for our stvr's because they only do in our toolbox so um i just don't

[1:09:55] Voice 8: know if this fits in with any of those sort of attended uses of temporary use permits um

[1:10:02] Voice 8: so there lies my questions so my questions are if the tup is denied then a compliance agreement

[1:10:09] Voice 8: kicks in i would assume it

[1:10:11] Voice 3: goes back to enforcement

[1:10:12] Voice 8: at that point they have the opportunity to do a

[1:10:15] Voice 8: compliance agreement and in a compliance agreement conditions could be that it's not immediate but

[1:10:21] Voice 8: that there is some term by which the use has to cease time

[1:10:25] Voice 6: to comply right

[1:10:26] Voice 8: so that would force

[1:10:27] Voice 8: a plan of like what is going forward what's the next step on that to comply with the bylaws

[1:10:36] Voice 8: yeah that would be the goal and so from that perspective that's kind of where it addresses

[1:10:41] Voice 8: the next steps unless there is some reasonable alternative at that point but given that the

[1:10:48] Voice 8: bylaws have been tried and denied because the community just doesn't support that use of that

[1:10:53] Voice 8: area um there's like really it's a compliance of like we move it to that use at that point or get

[1:11:02] get the things you needed to go into the next

[1:11:04] Voice 9: stage of use which would be a building permit

[1:11:06] Voice 9: and uh like that's that would shift the issue the building promotes you

[1:11:11] Voice 3: in our

[1:11:25] Voice 4: incorporate shipping containers into building yeah

[1:11:29] Voice 8: so that's my understanding of that is your

[1:11:32] Voice 8: low temporary um buildings on the site while there's

[1:11:36] Voice 7: building going on or is that not for

[1:11:39] Voice 7: what maybe i'm wrong about that

[1:11:40] Voice 6: yeah so if if i understand the question or if you were to start

[1:11:47] Voice 6: to build a residence a dwelling small or comply with the zoning bylaw at least with the accessory

[1:11:56] Voice 6: so that would result that's one path to resolve this issue for the owner uh whether or not those

[1:12:07] Voice 6: shipping containers need those roommates individually i would see if you ever actually

[1:12:11] Voice 19: really i would say that if you just if you just draw the shipping container on your property and

[1:12:16] Voice 19: just open the door and use it i would say that the building permit isn't required but if you

[1:12:20] Voice 19: start to put insulation or electrical foundation then that's where but uh with respect to your

[1:12:26] Voice 19: question so that the the the conflict with the land use by those uh section 3.4.3 which speaks

[1:12:33] Voice 19: around accessory buildings and it says uh essentially you can't have storage use or

[1:12:42] Voice 19: or structures uh but you can have structures provided that a building permit has

[1:12:56] Voice 19: or structure and the water supply and sewage so mr sketch would need to get quite far down

[1:13:03] Voice 19: the road of planning his dwelling and having those two services installed before um

[1:13:11] Voice 19: by

[1:13:12] Voice 16: the sounds of it couldn't please just ask one question on the landing spot

[1:13:18] Voice 16: do you restrict in this zone the number of accessory buildings per minute um not the

[1:13:26] Voice 19: number just the lock coverage okay

[1:13:28] Voice 16: yeah because again i mean we don't know

[1:13:31] Voice 16: coverage of those structures

[1:13:32] Voice 16: with respect

[1:13:36] Voice 19: to compliance agreement if you're moving down that road we might think

[1:13:39] Voice 19: by law enforcement would probably want it to be like maximum two years or something like that

[1:13:44] Voice 19: so that we're not enforcing this over the five ten years uh at the minimum

[1:13:51] Voice 6: but by law enforcement enforcement has already gone down

[1:13:58] Voice 6: I

[1:14:04] Voice 19: would also add, I mean, my

[1:14:08] Voice 19: conversations with Mr. Scott, I wasn't even seeking an immediate plan, like, okay, well, give us a long-term plan, like, at some point when you can no longer functionally access those boxes, what are you going to do with that?

[1:14:22] Voice 19: like even that almost and then perhaps you could look at a longer term one kind of

[1:14:31] Voice 10: per

[1:14:31] Voice 19: use but still with some end of the

[1:14:37] Voice 7: tunnel so so i don't know what to

[1:14:46] Voice 4: do about this and

[1:14:47] Voice 8: does

[1:14:48] Voice 4: the size is it the size of the shipping container then that makes it it might for

[1:14:53] Voice 4: neighbors i don't know but a little bit if they were 10 by 10

[1:14:57] Voice 19: if they were the quarter size

[1:14:58] Voice 19: It's the same. There's no reference to the size of those structures. You can't establish

[1:15:09] Voice 4: that.

[1:15:15] Voice 19: So if it was one box, technically, you can have

[1:15:21] Voice 19: all the boxes you want up to what coverage if you had your house in place, but until you

[1:15:26] Voice 10: put your house in

[1:15:27] Voice 19: place, you technically can't.

[1:15:30] Voice 19: yeah so that's where exactly and

[1:15:34] Voice 8: yeah so that's the discussion and and the so for me the the

[1:15:40] Voice 8: issues on this it's not actually 100 about this property right it's about the idea that

[1:15:46] Voice 8: like are we saying like can we say one thing for this property and something else for the rest of

[1:15:54] Voice 8: the island right that's one question we'd have to actually ask ourselves and if we're doing that

[1:16:00] Voice 8: why are we doing that right like is it to do with like that we actually think that i mean this is a

[1:16:06] Voice 8: weird property it's like super thin and skinny

[1:16:09] Voice 8: and it's hard to build on because the geotechnical

[1:16:11] Voice 8: issues it is buildable but it's expensive to build on because of the complex like terrain issues

[1:16:18] Voice 8: and you know like initially when those containers were put down they were an eyesore like and i

[1:16:24] Voice 8: think everybody could probably agree to that um but now there's a fence put up and it's mostly

[1:16:28] Voice 8: they're covering them and like they're starting to blend into the background so it's a different

[1:16:32] Voice 8: issue now in one way and yet the same we're still saying that it's a it's in contravention to the

[1:16:39] Voice 8: bylaw do we think that it's a good use of the property that it's a highest level use of the

[1:16:43] Voice 8: property and if

[1:16:44] Voice 8: it's if given the expense for building and the complexity of building on that

[1:16:48] Voice 8: property if we think it is the highest level use then we should give a tup for that property

[1:16:53] Voice 8: property and but it has to have a plan like then the plan would be that we would consider rezoning

[1:16:59] Voice 8: it didn't sound like the community supported rezoning in the past efforts to do that so

[1:17:04] Voice 8: from that perspective if we're looking for community approval on rezoning we don't have it

[1:17:09] Voice 8: like is what i would think and i mean we can go back to matt stanley but it's pretty clear in a

[1:17:14] Voice 8: lot of letters that that's true and so i guess the question is well do we like have a broader

[1:17:22] Voice 8: our conversation like so so we're kind of stuck in the situation where people have generally weighed

[1:17:28] Voice 8: in that they don't want that use because of two reasons one they they want it as a residential

[1:17:35] Voice 8: space and they don't want storage as a use in that area two that they're annoyed that it's a

[1:17:40] Voice 8: retroactive permit right that's a dilemma we have everywhere on this island it's not unique to this

[1:17:47] Voice 8: property um so we kind of have to just make a decision because the tup is usually a pathway

[1:17:52] Voice 8: to a rezoning but since that's already been something that's tried like it's not it's not

[1:17:58] Voice 8: a thing so so if we give a tup at this moment it's a tp saying that at the end of the tup

[1:18:04] Voice 8: you need to find another location and it's like a back off of it but that could be a compliance

[1:18:10] Voice 8: agreement it doesn't need to be a tup so i don't from that perspective that's not a reason to grant

[1:18:15] Voice 8: tp so i'm i'm deeply stuck on this because there's also the human the deep human component of this

[1:18:27] Voice 8: and like as a land use planner we're not supposed to be like deeply ingrained in the human component

[1:18:31] Voice 8: of like it's an individual on the property and yet it's difficult not to well

[1:18:36] Voice 4: that's also why

[1:18:36] Voice 4: you're elected i

[1:18:37] Voice 8: know so so could i

[1:18:42] Voice 16: ask the regional planning manager if it went to

[1:18:46] Voice 16: violent enforcement could it go to basically with a recommendation that is like a two or three year

[1:18:54] Voice 16: to achieve compliance agreement can we give some sort of direction there so

[1:19:01] Voice 16: you don't want it

[1:19:03] Voice 3: on the tup route if you want to achieve

[1:19:10] Voice 16: could it be a compliance thing but are we empowered to sort of give that direction

[1:19:16] Voice 6: ask the law enforcement officer or manager to negotiate a compliance agreement as mr

[1:19:22] Voice 6: sketch's concerns mr

[1:19:23] Voice 8: sketch wants a different use on property that's their role

[1:19:27] Voice 19: also consider that we've been down this road before we're not able to get compliance right

[1:19:34] Voice 9: so what happens if you can't get compliance if we go to you know no tv and he refuses to

[1:19:39] Voice 6: compliance agreement it goes straight to appoint might very well be back here for litigation at

[1:19:44] Voice 6: that point yeah

[1:19:44] Voice 3: yeah

[1:19:45] Voice 6: and

[1:19:50] Voice 3: then that just becomes an issue could we do a conditional tp knowing that

[1:20:04] Voice 3: with a request for a shorter amount

[1:20:19] Voice 4: of time for the plan than the tup

[1:20:24] Voice 4: you can issue a tp for up to three years so you could just do that for free

[1:20:30] Voice 4: just make it very clear that is you know

[1:20:32] Voice 10: i'm

[1:20:33] Voice 4: thinking if you so if you ask for a year to

[1:20:43] Voice 4: come up with some sort some sort of written walking it out on a three-year temporary use

[1:20:51] Voice 4: permit knowing that at the at the end of the year you're going to can get somewhere in trying to

[1:20:58] Voice 4: figure out how to walk it out and having a plan even if like brad had said he had tried to talk

[1:21:07] Voice 4: about at one point that there has to be an unwind you know this over over the time definitive amount

[1:21:14] Voice 4: of time but to know that we're moving in a positive direction and it can be considered

[1:21:19] Voice 4: and it's going to come back up in our term and if there's no ability to figure out how to make

[1:21:25] Voice 4: a plan then it goes into a compliance situation where it then it just basically gets referred

[1:21:34] Voice 4: heard and then but it's at least giving the ability to try if I'm

[1:21:44] Voice 16: not mistaken but can

[1:21:46] Voice 16: we can issue a three-year TUP with the condition of the TUP there's a plan within a year and if

[1:21:52] Voice 16: and if the plan's not done within a year

[1:21:54] Voice 16: and

[1:21:54] Voice 6: I guess

[1:22:03] Voice 4: that's that was what I was going to ask

[1:22:06] Voice 4: that we can come up with something like that that's amicable then can we are we allowed to

[1:22:11] Voice 4: address that in this forum yeah to see if there's a way to do that because if i mean ultimately at

[1:22:17] Voice 4: the end of the day if they're if somebody's desire is not to figure out how to then there's

[1:22:25] Voice 4: no point in us trying to figure out how to make it work

[1:22:27] Voice 6: perhaps if he's heard it from you he's

[1:22:29] Voice 6: heard it from us perhaps he hears it from you so do

[1:22:34] Voice 3: you want to engage mr

[1:22:36] Voice 16: sketch for a commitment

[1:22:38] Voice 4: well i yeah i guess i would want to know if there's if if you feel like there is some way

[1:22:44] Voice 4: that we can come to an amicable resolution for this to provide you with a way to move forward

[1:22:51] Voice 4: with it without going to without rezoning it and causing a situation where we've set a precedent

[1:23:00] Voice 4: for that and essentially in in my mind not knowing uh if that opens it up to every lot

[1:23:09] Voice 4: on pender island that doesn't have a build out on it already becomes a situation that

[1:23:16] Voice 4: comes before trust the local trust to try and get that land use um

[1:23:21] Voice 3: yeah

[1:23:29] Voice 4: you think that there is

[1:23:31] Voice 4: a way to to come up with a plan that addresses some of the community concern

[1:23:39] working there um just a point of clarification uh i have been asked for and paid for billing

[1:23:47] for permits uh to the crd for those um and uh my situation is that

[1:23:56] Voice 3: i uh my capital is insufficient

[1:24:04] to give you a commitment to build a house and

[1:24:12] Voice 11: the rental situation on pander typically

[1:24:15] Voice 3: I am hearing is small spots and often one-year rentals.

[1:24:25] And the next rental is underserved.

[1:24:29] And I am left with the situation that

[1:24:32] I have to go to one place that's already happened twice

[1:24:36] and I've got no place to move to.

[1:24:38] And if they do not have storage facility, I'm in the suit.

[1:24:45] And fundamentally it is

[1:24:49] acquiring sufficient capital to receive this kind of situation during my life that's true um i

[1:24:58] believe that my um request for a change in land use because the land use bottle is is uh not

[1:25:08] universal the provisions which doesn't allow any structures for instance they do allow structure

[1:25:14] um and there are different rationales for

[1:25:17] Voice 3: the land use bottle which i'm in

[1:25:19] Voice 3: a contravention of but I'm in a part that is may sound silly but yes I do buy a lot of projects

[1:25:33] Voice 3: and the first thing I would do is put a house on that property

[1:25:39] Voice 11: it's said it's expensive

[1:25:43] Voice 11: um but it is buildable and um it would be a home but I cannot in writing say I'm going to

[1:25:51] have taken a building permit no well and i seriously do have a lot of upfront expenses

[1:25:59] can i just i think i had a

[1:26:10] Voice 4: conversation when i came to to see the property right and

[1:26:13] Voice 4: unders understanding where you're coming from and i don't even think that anybody is asking

[1:26:19] Voice 4: for a building at this point it's just to almost have a discussion that that considers what the

[1:26:27] Voice 4: future use of the property is the future plan is for those shipping containers and how we walk it

[1:26:36] Voice 4: out towards compliance it doesn't have to be that you're agreeing to put just like literally i think

[1:26:42] Voice 4: what i'm hearing that the conversation has been already is just a plan just some sort of

[1:26:50] Voice 4: positive step forward and i mean it i would even if you write something like that

[1:26:58] Voice 4: in our community like as a as a person in the community to understand how that works

[1:27:05] Voice 4: if it was something that you

[1:27:15] Voice 4: way forward to do which i feel is almost like you have to do it i literally do not understand

[1:27:22] and what i could um and it's uh a way a way forward is to um ask as i did in my first

[1:27:31] application because i know of a number of individuals

[1:27:35] Voice 3: um structures on large structures

[1:27:48] Voice 3: but they would never ever make against any of them that put the structures in such a way they

[1:27:55] can't be seen under the land use model to allow as galiana does structures on an unbuilt land

[1:28:01] they are setting themselves up for violent enforcement and they will say nothing and they

[1:28:06] didn't say anything and in Booth's case and it was self-serving my first application to the local

[1:28:14] trust committee corporation was to amend the land use file and I

[1:28:18] Voice 11: spoke to a secret

[1:28:24] Voice 11: starter who was very reasonable approach but she left the CRD and the planner who wrote up

[1:28:32] my application um crucified it and the last the local trust committee and said uh the fraser

[1:28:45] values for shipping containers i believe that my request for change in

[1:28:50] Voice 11: land use is a reasonable one

[1:28:52] Voice 11: uh zoning is by design in the local government there are mechanisms allowed to a small change

[1:29:01] that is not offensive to the trust object in our case.

[1:29:06] And I don't believe that I have infringed on the environment of that land

[1:29:11] done carefully and extensively.

[1:29:14] And my hope is that I can convince a local trust committee

[1:29:22] to hear an application

[1:29:25] Voice 3: to change my land in a reconforming way.

[1:29:31] i don't know how better to answer that i i literally can't afford i would have to leave

[1:29:37] the island to store my money off the island and i need privacy when i unpack this stuff to get

[1:29:46] back the container i can't do that in a public place in a public industrial site

[1:29:54] and the industrial land is available

[1:29:58] the whole

[1:30:00] is is not willing to consider such use it's not legal anyway so

[1:30:05] Voice 16: i just want to hear from

[1:30:05] Voice 16: planners definitely yes i

[1:30:07] Voice 19: don't want too much there i was just going to reinforce

[1:30:12] Voice 19: trustee campbell's comment around not looking for a time just looking for even five or six bullets

[1:30:21] Voice 19: that say at such time where i can no longer access the site or however that's worded i will

[1:30:30] Voice 19: remove the shipping container, I will remove the fencing, I will, you know, restore the area or whatever that plant is. That's really the level of detail that at a minimum status.

[1:30:45] Voice 8: Okay, there's one other thing I would want if we go ahead with this and I just because my own history with this whole piece and it's wrapped up to me and a lot of our housing challenges.

[1:30:59] Voice 8: is i mean it's it's there's a complicated thing going on here actually it sounds really simple

[1:31:03] Voice 8: in some ways and it's actually really complicated in others so i think what i would like to do if

[1:31:08] Voice 8: we go ahead with the tup is i would like to make it a one-year tp i

[1:31:13] Voice 8: would like to ensure that there

[1:31:15] Voice 8: is conversation around that plan with the stanley lake homeowners association because all the letters

[1:31:21] Voice 8: are from them and if we're not getting their compliance during that or there's pointless to

[1:31:25] Voice 8: continue like frankly and the right now it's just a lot of his hostility because of how it's been

[1:31:32] Voice 8: done like in terms of compliance frankly like the the harsh like move is to just be the force of

[1:31:40] Voice 8: enforcement and say no like we've done everything and you know we have to just enforce compliance

[1:31:47] Voice 8: at this point um i don't think that that's necessarily the way i go because of the nature

[1:31:55] Voice 8: of the land i understand the dilemmas that are going on with that with building right now

[1:32:01] Voice 8: and with rentals like it's a i don't think it's as straightforward as any other property around

[1:32:06] Voice 8: here um so and i do think that there have been improvements to address some of the initial

[1:32:15] Voice 8: initial concerns that were named by the community around screening and around so like some of those

[1:32:21] Voice 8: components I think were they were done like in ways that I think were respectful they could be

[1:32:26] Voice 8: a little bit more completed around the back end so I think if we were to go ahead with the TEP

[1:32:30] Voice 8: I'd want to see complete screening around the end this is not when you're driving up the road you

[1:32:36] Voice 8: can still see the end of containers I'd want to see um a mandatory community conversation

[1:32:43] Voice 8: at the Stanley Lake Women's Association

[1:32:45] Voice 8: to have them involved in the conversation.

[1:32:49] Voice 8: And I'd want to see a plan coming out of that.

[1:32:52] Voice 8: So like, and not all that happening at the end of the TEP.

[1:33:00] Voice 8: I'd like to see that happening throughout the TEP.

[1:33:04] Voice 8: So is that something that

[1:33:05] Voice 6: can be done?

[1:33:06] Voice 6: You know, you're out of conditions,

[1:33:08] Voice 6: that's resolution out of condition.

[1:33:10] Voice 6: Forcing him to mute, that's not really a,

[1:33:13] Voice 6: that's you

[1:33:14] Voice 4: telling him to do that.

[1:33:15] Voice 4: okay so that's fine we're gonna i think we're gonna end up in a community conversation about

[1:33:20] Voice 4: that regard oh my god

[1:33:22] Voice 4: yeah because like the

[1:33:24] Voice 8: letters we've had about that you know like

[1:33:27] Voice 8: the request from here right now is of course and

[1:33:30] Voice 3: i don't see those

[1:33:30] Voice 7: right

[1:33:31] Voice 3: and

[1:33:34] Voice 8: uh and while i don't

[1:33:36] Voice 8: i potentially agree with that i also think that um i've seen changes on that property about how

[1:33:49] Voice 8: it's being handled and i feel like we need to diffuse the conversation and be clear about why

[1:33:57] Voice 8: i'm wanting it because it's more special so i need to understand that a little more deeply and

[1:34:02] Voice 8: I mean I see some of the things in there about that but I also think some of those issues have

[1:34:08] Voice 8: been mitigated so I need just to have a little bit of a conversation so we can also just defer

[1:34:13] Voice 8: this whole thing suspend enforcement defer it not issue TDP and have that conversation

[1:34:18] Voice 8: and I kind of feel that's a cleaner way of handling it because what it does is it doesn't

[1:34:22] Voice 8: say that we're allowing something that we don't potentially don't want to allow it just forces

[1:34:27] Voice 8: a conversation earlier so i'm kind of leaning towards that actually so if can i ask that

[1:34:33] Voice 8: question if we defer this to the april meeting and like to me that is sufficient time to create

[1:34:40] Voice 8: some version of this and like have a plan like added into this or the conversation with stanley

[1:34:47] Voice 8: like i don't really want to defer it for a whole year i don't think that's responsible so um can

[1:34:53] Voice 8: we defer

[1:34:54] Voice 7: this application of course

[1:34:57] Voice 6: yeah of course yeah um i mean really that what you want though is

[1:35:03] Voice 6: telling mr sketch go do this by april

[1:35:11] Voice 8: that's not totally what i'm saying i'm saying that i think that um you

[1:35:18] Voice 4: want to have a plan though

[1:35:19] Voice 4: yeah i

[1:35:20] Voice 8: know the plan yes but i i actually think that the i guess i'm questioning like what role

[1:35:27] Voice 8: is the ltc playing in that or should we so

[1:35:33] Voice 19: to separate the two pieces you're

[1:35:37] Voice 19: suggesting i've called further conversation with the low resident yeah

[1:35:48] Voice 7: and i've read all the

[1:35:50] Voice 19: letters but so you could take some time to do that community engagement

[1:35:54] Voice 19: yeah jim is saying it really is are you like you have an opportunity now if you defer

[1:36:02] Voice 19: this to say to mr sketch right now mr sketch we're going to defer this for a month but in that time

[1:36:07] Voice 19: you need to provide us you need to provide through staff some kind of documented plan to unwind this

[1:36:14] Voice 19: temporary property and then maybe that becomes a key uh decision point

[1:36:23] Voice 19: now whether that plan would fall in the temporary use permit conditions or not

[1:36:29] Voice 19: depends on if

[1:36:30] Voice 19: you want it to be removed after the three years or

[1:36:35] Voice 19: some period or

[1:36:37] Voice 19: i i mean it's or or if you are looking if you're willing to accept at least this point

[1:36:44] Voice 19: sometime kind of longer term

[1:36:47] Voice 19: vision for removal that isn't necessarily time bound

[1:36:51] Voice 19: uh then that perhaps is just some kind of written document that mr sketch signs and provides

[1:36:58] Voice 19: as proof of that kind of agreement between the local trust committee and mr sketch

[1:37:06] Voice 19: the challenge all obviously is that uh mr sketch might have this non-time-bound plan but a new

[1:37:13] Voice 19: set of trustees or even u.s trustees may change your perspective at renewal time and then that

[1:37:20] Voice 3: plan was over but

[1:37:21] Voice 19: at least that would give staff what we were seeking uh in terms of the minimum

[1:37:29] Voice 19: requirement to so

[1:37:33] Voice 16: i think there's probably two roads i think you can go down it's it's one is

[1:37:41] Voice 16: to further this for a meeting or two to open the discussion or you can do the other thing is do a

[1:37:48] Voice 16: three-year tup but require within one year about tup that there be a plan and if after a year the

[1:37:55] Voice 16: plan is suspended then the tup is pulled i'm

[1:37:58] Voice 8: not very in support of the tp and i know that that's

[1:38:01] Voice 8: not a like positive thing from mr sketch's point of view but i'm not actually in very much support

[1:38:06] Voice 8: of the tp given it's been five years since this issue began and that like we need to see

[1:38:12] Voice 8: see compliance or we need to see more community support of this effort, because I just don't

[1:38:22] Voice 8: I need to understand more clearly, apart from the bylaw enforcement component, why an alternative

[1:38:31] Voice 8: needs to be an option.

[1:38:34] Voice 8: Because to me, I don't think, from what I hear, there is an alternative plan in terms

[1:38:41] Voice 8: of like i'll move my stuff somewhere else that doesn't seem to be an option right now

[1:38:45] Voice 8: and if that's not an option then i need to either understand like more completely that

[1:38:50] Voice 8: the community doesn't want this alternative use of land or and if and if there is good rationale

[1:38:57] Voice 8: for why that is like we need to come to a very clear rationale that this is either okay we put

[1:39:04] Voice 8: it into our bylaw a long-term plan like that's the law or that it's not okay because it feels like

[1:39:13] Voice 8: so the two paths and right now

[1:39:17] Voice 8: it feels like we've been down the i feel like there is a moment where

[1:39:21] Voice 8: we actually need to take a breath and have a conversation with the community a little bit

[1:39:25] Voice 8: more deeply but i don't want to approve the tdp during that time because i feel like that's

[1:39:30] Voice 8: disrespectful to the feedback that we've had from communities so far so um so i would like to defer

[1:39:37] Voice 8: this at least for a month maybe we should defer it to the chair meeting sorry the main meeting

[1:39:42] Voice 8: on the campus of march okay so the main meeting so that we have a little bit of a breather

[1:39:48] Voice 8: and then

[1:39:49] Voice 8: like um aaron and david and i like arrange individual conversations and i already

[1:39:53] Voice 8: to have that to talk with the standing point association so that gives us a little bit more

[1:40:00] Voice 8: time to have those conversations and um you know we're always stuck in that local government way

[1:40:07] Voice 8: of there's these histories of dynamics in our community and sometimes we need to like

[1:40:11] Voice 8: breathe and actually see and figure out what the next step is but i don't think we're doing that

[1:40:23] Voice 8: absolutely so um i'm anyway mr sketch did like have a plan embedded in this of some form

[1:40:30] Voice 8: yeah

[1:40:31] Voice 3: there's an absolute certainty that my i am not um

[1:40:36] Voice 11: yeah there's an absolute certainty

[1:40:39] Voice 11: that uh my state will um distribute a lot of this material is destined for um

[1:40:49] and that the use will be wound down and changed.

[1:40:56] I'm not in a position to do that now.

[1:41:03] There

[1:41:04] Voice 11: is a possibility that my view that the land use model will swing,

[1:41:11] Voice 11: will orient more closely with the trust object than they have in

[1:41:16] Voice 3: time.

[1:41:22] that my difficulty will subside, that long-time use by law has been in place for a long, long

[1:41:31] time, and the rationale for it, I've questioned, and there is an answer, and there is an alternative,

[1:41:38] and whether or not they are experiencing environmental, small, accessory use, or structure

[1:41:52] use, principle

[1:41:55] Voice 3: use, whether in fact that's not working out, so yes, long before mitigating

[1:42:25] Voice 3: circumstance maybe that there was needs in the past on

[1:42:28] Voice 11: the edge of my front as an executor of

[1:42:36] my father's mistake and i didn't uh what i did do but it was a

[1:42:40] Voice 11: terrible access into a dish and

[1:42:43] Voice 11: really no way that somebody could well use that as part of this project i had it

[1:42:51] so it's a nice even path do you i understand that there's no problem i think we understand

[1:43:02] i just i'd ask just for logistics wise for for understand is it administratively can we just

[1:43:13] tell you to pull it back to to

[1:43:14] Voice 16: the the may agenda without a motion or do you need a moment

[1:43:20] Voice 10: well

[1:43:29] Voice 16: is that sort of the path you want to go down

[1:43:45] Voice 7: yeah

[1:43:46] Voice 8: and my issue is that i haven't like a variety of reasons i haven't sat down and like had that

[1:43:51] Voice 8: like i need to

[1:43:52] Voice 8: have a very very clear conversation not just about what do you want with stanley

[1:43:56] Voice 8: like the homeowners association but i need a deeper conversation about why

[1:44:00] Voice 8: currently is that because it's shifted since the last

[1:44:03] Voice 8: and so it would be helpful i think to have a and and like i can see a clear rationale why

[1:44:11] Voice 8: they're really opposed to that as the highest uses i wonder if it's

[1:44:24] Voice 19: useful you have me to come

[1:44:25] Voice 19: back in i wonder if it's useful uh we would be needing to bring the permit back to you we would

[1:44:30] Voice 19: need to re i'm just looking at the little paragraph we would re we would need to do the notification

[1:44:36] Voice 19: again uh one thing we could do right now is add a condition in the permits and just for your

[1:44:41] Voice 19: clarification they're all

[1:44:43] Voice 19: conditional permits right they all are

[1:44:45] Voice 19: kept conditions um and so

[1:44:47] Voice 10: another condition

[1:44:48] Voice 19: that i could add now and bring that forward to the newly advertised permit is the

[1:44:54] Voice 19: requirement to extend that screening across that back end and then when you have your community

[1:44:59] Voice 19: conversations uh that screening item would at least be able to do that's all i'm sure

[1:45:19] Voice 19: so it would be as part of a condition

[1:45:23] yeah so would you the motion

[1:45:25] Voice 3: deferred i just well

[1:45:27] Voice 4: just something that just came up i i've

[1:45:29] Voice 4: gotten a text message before that these sorts of things are put in the direct food still

[1:45:39] Voice 4: right right a

[1:45:40] Voice 4: resident a resident asked if there is a way that people could submit to it yeah

[1:45:50] Voice 4: like an email chain or whatever that these things regarding this particular

[1:46:00] this particular had missed the deadline because they didn't see that it was out

[1:46:07] Voice 6: right now so they

[1:46:08] Voice 6: also had notices so they

[1:46:13] Voice 8: might have been

[1:46:13] Voice 6: outside of that and received it but yeah i mean if we

[1:46:17] Voice 8: will have

[1:46:17] Voice 6: to do re-notification again

[1:46:19] Voice 8: so the question you're asking is how are people getting

[1:46:25] Voice 8: notified and how can they

[1:46:27] Voice 6: they're getting notified primarily through mail mail out

[1:46:30] Voice 6: within the specified distance which is 100 meters from this property so they get a notice

[1:46:41] Voice 19: um yeah what i'm hearing is can we advertise or can we

[1:46:48] Voice 19: send the advertisement through the

[1:46:50] Voice 19: subscription it's probably the only real yeah

[1:46:53] Voice 4: it's just because we don't even we don't have

[1:46:55] Voice 4: the director here what the first line was so they yeah I just was curious like an option

[1:47:00] that we could do that which it just seems like a good time to bring it up in our for our local

[1:47:05] that we had but currently we're we do not no longer have a requirement to be in the driftwood

[1:47:11] correct

[1:47:11] Voice 6: so the legislation has changed but you have to change your bylaws so i'm going to be

[1:47:16] Voice 6: bringing some changes to your uh development procedures bylaws the next couple months

[1:47:23] that would allow you to use alternate means of advertising so that could

[1:47:29] Voice 6: potentially change now

[1:47:30] Voice 6: help which is great but where we are now you know it still has

[1:47:36] Voice 6: to go okay

[1:47:37] Voice 8: and the other thing that

[1:47:39] Voice 8: we can do in the interim of that notification and i've been trying to do this but i realized what

[1:47:44] Voice 8: uh just because when i was a trust counselor um one of the things we could do is the page that

[1:47:50] Voice 8: has our projects and the applications on it that link that for the north pender page that has those

[1:47:55] Voice 8: we can be putting that in our pender post and we can be posting it online so that people can

[1:48:01] Voice 8: and find out okay the active applications page because it said it's a one-stop shop page

[1:48:09] Voice 6: so the applications that go on there are like reasons always go on there because they're

[1:48:16] Voice 6: ongoing but something like a development permit or a key because they're in the agenda package

[1:48:22] Voice 6: which is like a one-time decision right because the agenda package gets decided if it's something

[1:48:26] Voice 6: like this where it goes over more than one meeting, then the planner will

[1:48:32] Voice 8: sit on that one.

[1:48:34] Voice 8: Is there a way for us to make it more standard? Because the dilemma that we have here is a timing

[1:48:45] Voice 8: problem, right? So I can't link to the package necessarily very easily in my post because my

[1:48:53] Voice 8: post is due on the 20th of the prior month and that package isn't available. So it would be

[1:48:59] Voice 8: helpful and like i can link to the general meetings helpful for our community maybe and

[1:49:05] Voice 8: maybe what it is it's the simpler mode for you would be just to put up the link

[1:49:10] Voice 9: on the applications page other applications are dealt with at this link you just have a link on

[1:49:18] Voice 9: that

[1:49:18] Voice 7: would be the most practical until like a day before the agenda yeah i can see the problem

[1:49:23] Voice 7: The post planners are doing their staff reports.

[1:49:25] Voice 7: Yeah.

[1:49:27] Voice 9: So I do get that.

[1:49:31] Voice 10: I

[1:49:31] Voice 9: get the timeline backup problem.

[1:49:35] Voice 9: But maybe I'm

[1:49:45] Voice 8: trying to make it so that people can navigate to the documents.

[1:49:48] Voice 8: Because frankly, it's difficult for community members to find the navigation to those documents.

[1:49:51] Voice 8: We can post those in our post.

[1:49:53] Voice 8: That's the thing that we can do.

[1:49:55] Voice 8: And then the question is if we can just remember when the agenda package comes out to actually grab that.

[1:50:00] Voice 8: link and post it out to facebook we can do that but we will miss the pender post deadline for that

[1:50:05] Voice 8: so okay okay note to self we should do those things and um if you could try to make as many

[1:50:13] Voice 8: linkages as possible so to me it sounds like the move right now the question is it sounds like it

[1:50:18] Voice 8: has to be too much just for the re-notification right we

[1:50:22] Voice 18: could trigger notification again

[1:50:25] Voice 18: we approach not to the 17th of april next week so there's enough time okay so what do you want

[1:50:30] Voice 18: do one

[1:50:31] Voice 16: month or two months i

[1:50:36] Voice 8: have a median schedule within the month with this dynamic

[1:50:38] Voice 8: so i'm okay to go one month um if we do one month then we should also correct that

[1:50:51] Voice 10: can

[1:50:55] Voice 6: we just note the record because it's it's a proposed permit at this point so we could when

[1:51:00] Voice 6: we bring it back we'll with that okay so that's great perfect that's great perfect and then um

[1:51:07] Voice 8: do you want the plan to also be included the request to have a plan but is that in the

[1:51:12] Voice 8: follow-up so

[1:51:12] Voice 19: that's where i guess is the plan included in the temporary use permit or is the

[1:51:16] Voice 19: plan being submitted by the applicant as part of their application submission to support the

[1:51:23] Voice 19: issuance of the team that's the second one i think yeah i think the second so you could direct mr

[1:51:30] Voice 19: your sketch to please provide three or you could when you consider the permit consider adding a

[1:51:47] Voice 19: condition that requires a plan within some time period while the permit is issued so you can do

[1:51:54] Voice 19: both ask him for it now and have it by april and use that plan as deliberation as to whether you're

[1:52:00] Voice 19: going to issue the permit or you could consider issuing a

[1:52:02] Voice 7: permit with the recognition and before

[1:52:04] Voice 7: i can feel okay about issuing a permit given the timeline because this has been five years then

[1:52:09] Voice 7: i don't think it has to be a complicated problem

[1:52:14] Voice 7: the

[1:52:14] Voice 4: lgc directs the applicant to submit a

[1:52:20] Voice 19: uh cease of use plan by march 30th whatever

[1:53:03] Voice 3: And

[1:53:06] Voice 19: then another resolution deferring the others.

[1:53:11] Okay.

[1:53:11] Voice 3: Can we do.

[1:53:13] Voice 19: I

[1:53:14] Voice 3: think it's okay.

[1:53:17] Voice 4: Otherwise, yeah.

[1:53:22] Voice 8: So let's do that.

[1:53:23] Voice 8: If you want to make a

[1:53:24] Voice 3: motion to that.

[1:53:27] Voice 3: So it would be that the Trial and Trust Committee defer every use permit application in BT-2022

[1:53:42] Voice 4: .5 to the May meeting agenda.

[1:53:52] Voice 16: Okay, Pat, have you got that?

[1:53:55] Voice 13: Your audio is constantly breaking up, et cetera.

[1:53:59] Voice 13: So I did not hear.

[1:54:01] Voice 13: I understand it's to defer the TUP application.

[1:54:04] Voice 13: application I just don't know till when till

[1:54:07] Voice 15: the May meeting thank

[1:54:08] Voice 13: you okay

[1:54:11] Voice 16: I'll

[1:54:11] Voice 8: second that okay

[1:54:12] Voice 16: second any further discussion call the question okay

[1:54:17] Voice 8: and then I believe you need a second one

[1:54:20] Voice 8: let's see if I can get it can you hear me Pat I can at this point okay trying to speak clearly

[1:54:25] Voice 8: okay so that the North Pender LTC direct Mr. requested the applicant thank you requested the

[1:54:37] Voice 8: applicant and then if you can insert the tup number yeah um submit a plan for cease

[1:54:50] Voice 13: i understood i understood it was a cease of plan use a cease

[1:54:54] Voice 8: of use of

[1:54:55] Voice 13: use plan yeah um to

[1:54:59] Voice 8: the ltc

[1:55:01] Voice 8: by the end of april yeah

[1:55:03] Voice 3: by the end of april by

[1:55:05] Voice 8: the end of april okay

[1:55:07] Voice 13: so request that the

[1:55:10] Voice 13: applicant with the numbers submit a cease of use plan to the ltc by april 30th yes okay

[1:55:18] Voice 8: 2023 yeah

[1:55:20] Voice 13: full

[1:55:22] Voice 16: discussion question yes we'll have a brief break so about 15 minute break yeah whatever

[1:55:35] 10 minute

[1:55:36] Voice 15: break okay so if we're okay 15 10 minutes whatever you're like

[1:55:44] Voice 15: Okay, so we'll do a 10 minute break.

[2:02:55] Voice 16: will reconvene here so we are at north pender tup 2023.1 for me um and there's a staff report

[2:03:11] Voice 16: charlie's online hi okay hi welcome

[2:03:19] Voice 1: okay perfect so good afternoon chair maud trustee campbell and

[2:03:24] Voice 1: trustee morrison the application before you take today np tup 2023.1 is for the issuance of a

[2:03:32] Voice 1: temporary use permit for a short-term vacation rental sdvr at 3812 cutlass court on north pender

[2:03:39] Voice 1: a bit of history on this property a tup for an stvr was first applied for and approved by

[2:03:46] Voice 1: the ltc at the time on september 9th 2019 and then renewed by ltc on october 29th 2020

[2:03:54] Voice 1: as per the local government act a tup can only be renewed once therefore the applicant is applying

[2:04:00] Voice 1: applying for a new TUP for the existing STVR.

[2:04:05] Voice 1: March 2022, bylaw 222 was adopted,

[2:04:09] Voice 1: amending the North Pender OCP.

[2:04:11] Voice 1: So the application by large meets the temporary use permit

[2:04:14] Voice 1: policies and guidelines, which were included in the package

[2:04:18] Voice 1: as attachment 5, with exception of requesting

[2:04:21] Voice 1: for a total of 60 days of use from the period of May 1

[2:04:25] Voice 1: to September 30 in a calendar year

[2:04:28] Voice 1: to provide more flexibility um during the site visit the applicant applicant noted that they're

[2:04:34] Voice 1: um they are very selective with whom they offer their property to and that the 60 days would

[2:04:39] Voice 1: provide greater availability if needed um during the notice period one response was received from

[2:04:45] Voice 1: a neighbor not directly adjacent to the property um concerning the vegetative screen uh there was

[2:04:52] Voice 1: is no mention of concern for the use, specifically regarding its effectiveness or that the applicant

[2:05:01] Voice 1: should erect a fence. So myself, the planner, contacted the property owners adjacent to the

[2:05:07] Voice 1: vegetative screen, so on the west side, on March 8th, and they stated that due to the sunlight and

[2:05:14] Voice 1: soil conditions, cedars and other hedging do not survive in that location, and that they do not

[2:05:20] Voice 1: want a fence put up and so photos of the west interior side lot can be found as attachment two

[2:05:25] Voice 1: the recommendation for the issuance of the tp on page one of the staff report is supported

[2:05:31] Voice 1: as the proposed stvr substantially meets the ocp guidelines the dwelling and the guest capacity

[2:05:38] Voice 1: are both small the cumulative impacts on the median immediate neighborhood is is very negligible

[2:05:44] Voice 1: as there are no other legal SDBRs in the vicinity, which you can see in detachment two. The referral

[2:05:50] Voice 1: to the CRD Magic Lake water and sewer was completed in 2019. There was only one response,

[2:05:58] Voice 1: which I mentioned, to the notification regarding the need for additional vegetative screening or

[2:06:03] Voice 1: fence. However, the adjacent neighbor is in support of the existing conditions. And lastly,

[2:06:08] Voice 1: the proposed permit provides conditions to ensure that the use does not have adverse effects on

[2:06:13] Voice 1: neighbours and in the event it does there is recourse of enforcement or non-renewal.

[2:06:18] Voice 1: So the applicant is here, he's landed from his flight, he's ready and he's here remotely if

[2:06:26] Voice 1: LTC has any questions regarding the application and thanks.

[2:06:30] Voice 4: Thank you very

[2:06:31] Voice 4: much. Trustees, any questions?

[2:06:32] Voice 4: The discussion about vegetative screening, was that a requirement prior to?

[2:06:42] Voice 4: yeah

[2:06:42] Voice 1: in the from my understanding um in the previous uh so the first application there was

[2:06:48] Voice 1: uh it was a requirement and it is in this tp is like maintenance um and so i'm looking at the

[2:06:55] Voice 1: previous file history um i had seen that there was notes from the adjacent neighbor um there

[2:07:01] Voice 1: had been a phone call um and so then i talked to the neighbor myself and he and um yeah he just

[2:07:06] Voice 1: stated that what was there is is sufficient and that they absolutely do not want a fence

[2:07:11] Voice 1: from my understanding too that's like kind of like deer go through the corridor

[2:07:15] Voice 1: as well and so they just like don't want to have the obstruction yeah and

[2:07:19] Voice 4: so the letter that

[2:07:22] Voice 4: was sent asking about the about the vegetative screening was not from the adjacent neighbor

[2:07:30] Voice 4: no

[2:07:30] Voice 1: it's not from the adjacent neighbor and yeah Brian I think is unmuted so he might want to

[2:07:36] Voice 1: pipe uh pipe in as well yeah

[2:07:40] Voice 17: i can speak to that a little bit for sure thanks for having me um so

[2:07:42] Voice 17: the backyard is quite open uh neither neighbor on either side of us has any fence or uh significant

[2:07:48] Voice 17: legislative screening in the backyard and then uh the letter i think came in from the neighbor

[2:07:55] Voice 17: two doors down who has like an eight foot fence going around their property so um on the other

[2:08:01] Voice 17: side of our property the next seven houses up the street none of them have fences in the backyard

[2:08:06] Voice 17: yard and everyone really likes the open field and obviously there's a very big deer path going

[2:08:11] Voice 17: through there so the deer are constantly going back but that being said we absolutely want to

[2:08:16] Voice 17: make sure everybody's happy especially our neighbors so um our direct neighbors they don't

[2:08:21] Voice 17: feel like we need to definitely don't want to have a fence up and don't really feel like uh

[2:08:25] Voice 17: large trees would suit or based on the sort of like uh as i mentioned earlier like um we do want

[2:08:32] Voice 17: to do more to add some more vegetative scrutiny but uh obviously works very well yeah

[2:08:39] Voice 1: from talking

[2:08:40] Voice 1: to the neighbor they said they tried to plant three cedars and all of them died um yeah

[2:08:47] Voice 8: um

[2:08:48] Voice 8: um the 60 days versus 30 can you stop no i'm actually gonna ask you um so from a

[2:08:58] Voice 8: recommendation point of view um my understanding for the 30 and this was before me because we

[2:09:04] Voice 8: actually approved the cpr bylaw but it actually most of that work related to the timing of it

[2:09:10] Voice 8: was done before um so i need to understand why because my my understanding about the 30 days was

[2:09:18] Voice 8: that it was a compromise oh and i actually got 30 days in the summer between stuff while we were

[2:09:23] Voice 8: and

[2:09:23] Voice 6: that

[2:09:26] Voice 8: conversation was because we had pushback about some of the original thing

[2:09:30] Voice 8: the original timing of the days around there being too extensive of a summer kind of turnover

[2:09:39] Voice 8: of our and the weight that that put in the summer season for tourists coming in and out of

[2:09:48] Voice 8: residential areas and so I guess my question for staff is I know why I have a very understanding

[2:09:56] Voice 8: why owners might want that but from the staff perspective why is the difference okay like

[2:10:02] Voice 8: you're recommending that we do approve it but it's a different amount so

[2:10:06] Voice 6: it's long it's all

[2:10:06] Voice 6: it's a longer amount than the guidelines that's what the applicant's requesting okay um yeah

[2:10:12] Voice 6: the the i guess the difference um with uh this one from if it was a brand new operator is that

[2:10:19] Voice 6: they have been operating with a longer time period or not longer number of days

[2:10:25] Voice 6: under the tup and then under renewal without any issues that we've heard right

[2:10:30] Voice 8: and i guess

[2:10:31] Voice 8: just to be clear with the ltc since we're on new ltc so then the idea with the 30 days in summer

[2:10:37] Voice 8: was to um you know spread the seasonality of stvr across because we have very intense sort of

[2:10:45] Voice 8: trafficking on off the island in the summer and to encourage owners to come and stay and be part

[2:10:50] Voice 8: of the community during the summer as opposed to just making it a rotating door of visitors

[2:10:55] Voice 8: um so that was the intent of like trying to like narrow it more in the summer um to encourage the

[2:11:02] Voice 8: spread over the year and so and part of that also is around the idea that um i'm gonna pause there

[2:11:12] Voice 8: because i'm i need to just get my hand to get sorry it's been a while since i thought about

[2:11:16] Voice 8: this particular issue so i'm not actually so for these 60 days we know the tv and i do understand

[2:11:23] Voice 8: your argument of that but part of that's what it was part of the concern about narrowing that summer

[2:11:30] Voice 8: area is that those stdrs are not meant to be investment properties they're meant to be

[2:11:37] Voice 8: properties that people are coming and being part of this and over the longer term uh but they don't

[2:11:44] Voice 8: live here full-time so they're not on sites they could do a home business if they were living here

[2:11:48] Voice 8: full-time so these are people that are not living permanently on the island that own homes or maybe

[2:11:53] Voice 8: they were family homes you know that they're they want to like earn a little

[2:11:57] Voice 8: income off of but the

[2:11:59] Voice 8: idea of limiting the summertime is to actually encourage them to be here and be part of the

[2:12:03] Voice 8: community and so and discourage longer investment properties and if we increase the summertime in

[2:12:10] Voice 8: particular to 60 days there's more chance that that will become an investment like and less

[2:12:15] Voice 8: chance that it will become more part of the community so that's the that's the rationale

[2:12:18] Voice 8: so i just want to

[2:12:19] Voice 16: name that but

[2:12:21] Voice 16: it's interesting to me because on our island it was the exact

[2:12:24] Voice 16: opposite conversation was if it was the concern from the commercial um providers of rental

[2:12:31] Voice 16: properties and

[2:12:32] Voice 16: so they said well in the summer we're fully booked so we don't care about stvrs

[2:12:38] Voice 16: but in the shoulder season we want to live it down to i think i think we said 60 days

[2:12:43] Voice 16: from i think it's from thanksgiving to victoria day because they don't because um um they don't

[2:12:49] Voice 16: they have less capacity that time of year so it's exact upside down from what what your concerns are

[2:12:54] Voice 16: i don't

[2:12:57] Voice 8: just just i don't i don't think that we have actually people weighing in that way

[2:13:01] Voice 8: that's an interesting argument it partly may be because but i don't know if they're trying

[2:13:06] Voice 8: to stay open more now throughout the year

[2:13:08] Voice 8: but anyway so

[2:13:10] Voice 16: we'll hear from trustee campbell then

[2:13:13] Voice 16: we'll ask from the applicant i think in like looking

[2:13:18] Voice 4: at you know not being involved in the

[2:13:20] Voice 4: original discussion or reasoning but looking at stuff like you know having run grounding and see

[2:13:26] Voice 4: that exact exact thing during the summer it's not really as much of a consider consideration and

[2:13:33] Voice 4: and we are trying to push people to actually get stvrs and there's only 12 now i think if we had

[2:13:47] Voice 1: if we had 20

[2:13:48] Voice 4: we had 20 permits and we had and and we were sort of doesn't make any sense i don't

[2:13:57] Voice 4: think to limit the people that are legitimately trying to comply with rules and regulations as

[2:14:03] Voice 4: opposed to people that are just going to go for it and for 90 days in the summer and then it is an

[2:14:14] Voice 4: investment until we get until we get to full build like a full build out of what that of those 20

[2:14:23] Voice 4: permits it doesn't to me it doesn't seem like it makes any sense to limit them down to 30

[2:14:29] Voice 4: as opposed to as opposed to 60 because they're at least they're at least trying to comply with

[2:14:34] Voice 4: what what a bylaw is that we're trying to set up for temporary use but we're trying to set up

[2:14:40] Voice 8: yeah i hear what you're saying except that it's not complying because the bylaw currently says

[2:14:44] Voice 8: 30 so so i and so we're we're actually they're asking for an exception and i understand what

[2:14:51] Voice 8: you're saying but so as a community we agreed that bylaw would be 30 and this is a variance

[2:14:56] Voice 8: to that bylaw right now that's being asked for and i so and we're not only 10 or 12 stvrs to be

[2:15:05] Voice 8: clear we're 10 or 12 stvrs that are non-owner occupied there's a whole bunch of others that

[2:15:13] Voice 8: are operating as owner occupied as far as that are legal and so we still have that capacity

[2:15:17] Voice 8: um it's just not in off island or like and and it's hard to say how to frame that because it's

[2:15:25] Voice 8: just not owner occupied at the moment that's the issue but

[2:15:28] Voice 4: we've had 60 days right they were like

[2:15:32] Voice 4: they they have a rigid they have operated for two cycles as a 60-day sddr and then we we changed it

[2:15:41] Voice 4: on them right down to 30 days did

[2:15:44] Voice 8: they have it 60 days before yeah previously

[2:15:46] Voice 8: yes okay yeah

[2:15:53] Voice 1: They've been in operation since 2019 and have had no complaints with respect to use.

[2:16:04] Voice 1: And from speaking to the applicant when I went for the site visit, they had really low occupancy, like lower than what was permitted previously.

[2:16:15] Voice 1: They just want to have that option if there's like someone who wants to stay a little bit longer term that wants to get to know pender that sort of thing to have that flexibility and not be restricted by that 30 days and I think that, yes, if this was an application

[2:16:29] Voice 1: that was brand new that hadn't, you know, been in existence, then maybe it would be a different situation but I think that, given, you know that it's been in operation.

[2:16:40] Voice 1: You know, there is merit, but I'm sure the applicant can provide comments.

[2:16:48] Voice 16: So do

[2:16:49] Voice 15: you want to

[2:16:49] Voice 16: hear from the applicant, your thoughts between 30 and 60 days?

[2:16:54] Voice 1: I'm just

[2:16:54] Voice 17: there, like, coming on.

[2:16:56] Voice 17: Sure. Yeah, I think the idea with 60 days is just, you know, realistically, there's not a lot of time or a lot of requirements for sorts of vacation rentals in the winter months.

[2:17:07] Voice 17: It's more in the summer.

[2:17:08] Voice 1: We

[2:17:09] Voice 17: absolutely spend as much time there in the summertime as we can, both months of June, July, and August.

[2:17:15] Voice 17: We spend a week there each time.

[2:17:17] Voice 17: So that's kind of really where the 60 Days comes from, was the idea of making it available for the times that it is available for the general public to use and for visitors to come.

[2:17:28] Voice 17: To be honest with you, we get lots of requests for people coming over for weddings, and at a day, there's nowhere else to stay.

[2:17:34] Voice 17: So that's kind of where it comes from.

[2:17:36] Voice 17: but either way you know we respect the uh decision of the uh thank you thoughts

[2:17:46] Voice 8: yeah i mean it's uh it's an interesting argument so and it's so have we had the feedback that we've

[2:17:59] Voice 8: had is all attached here or is there other stuff that's on our website that's not attached

[2:18:04] Voice 8: like like we don't has there been any other feedback i guess is the question

[2:18:08] Voice 6: from the family no there's been no other submissions from the public no

[2:18:13] Voice 8: no so it

[2:18:16] Voice 8: doesn't sound like anybody's very concerned about this one so i think it's okay then to

[2:18:21] Voice 8: to go ahead with it and um yeah i do i hear what you're saying aaron about like the idea of

[2:18:29] Voice 8: you know if somebody is a proven operator that they're doing the things they need to be doing

[2:18:35] Voice 8: that's okay i do want us to think about it every time we do that because it is like there's a number

[2:18:42] Voice 8: of sort of issues related to this cumulative impact how it you know echoes back and forth

[2:18:47] Voice 8: with ferry traffic how it goes back and forth with like um the other operators on the island so

[2:18:55] Voice 8: and i i have a little bit of a concern the way we're communicating our tps i wonder

[2:19:00] Voice 8: I wonder, I kind of wonder if we should be actually notifying other operators, like in terms of the hotels and things like that, like, because it impacts. I don't know, I just, I'm wondering if that's actually something that we should be more intentionally communicating to them because right now TEPs are only communicated with the immediate people around them, but there is a like larger community impact across anybody providing accommodations, but I don't know.

[2:19:28] Voice 8: The

[2:19:29] Voice 4: only place that would really apply to you would be Poets,

[2:19:32] Voice 4: and they're on the South Island with a whole different set of situations.

[2:19:38] Voice 6: So

[2:19:38] Voice 4: the time would

[2:19:39] Voice 6: have been when the bylaw would be considered

[2:19:41] Voice 6: to consult more widely for establishing those guidelines?

[2:19:46] Voice 4: Yeah, we haven't really thought about it.

[2:19:47] Voice 4: The woods is

[2:19:47] Voice 4: too site-specific to what his plan and marketing is.

[2:19:52] Voice 4: He has no interest in that

[2:19:54] Voice 4: stuff.

[2:19:56] Voice 4: he his his interest is more to keep anything that you do from effect and how he does his

[2:20:04] Voice 4: his specific business otherwise he's you could do what you will okay so we're ready for the motion

[2:20:12] Voice 4: local trust committee approve issuance of temporary's permit

[2:20:21] Voice 4: at uh mptup 2023.2 is that the right one so yeah no point

[2:20:30] Voice 1: one point one one point one

[2:20:35] Voice 16: planet's awake this is good any demo for the discussion no call the

[2:20:40] Voice 16: question all in favor

[2:20:41] Voice 16: curious all right congratulations you're on your way so thank you very much everyone very

[2:20:46] Voice 16: much appreciate it thank you

[2:20:48] Voice 1: sir thank you next

[2:20:49] Voice 16: one all right okay

[2:20:51] Voice 1: we're back to me

[2:20:55] Voice 1: so next up is a renewal application so this isn't a new application this is a renewal um for stvr

[2:21:02] Voice 1: at 1602 schooner way on north pender a tup was first issued in 2018 and then renewed in 2019

[2:21:10] Voice 1: in 2020 a new application was issued the purpose of this application is to allow for sdvr use on

[2:21:19] Voice 1: a property to continue in compliance with the north pender land use regulations um so as the

[2:21:25] Voice 1: 2020 permit was issued prior to bylaw 222 being adopted it was not subject to the sdvr guidelines

[2:21:32] Voice 1: however the applicant applicant considered the proposed changes to sdvr policy and adjusted

[2:21:38] Voice 1: tested their application accordingly at the time so the stvr is in proximity to two other permitted

[2:21:45] Voice 1: stvrs as shown in figure two of the staff report however this use has been in place since 2018 with

[2:21:51] Voice 1: no complaints regarding traffic noise etc anything pertaining to the use during the past several

[2:21:57] Voice 1: years and applicants have a person on island 24 7 to address any potential concerns the previously

[2:22:04] Voice 1: The previously issued permit allowed for the SDVR use for 60 days from May 1 to September 30, which the applicant would like to continue as it provides for greater availability and longer stays.

[2:22:17] Voice 1: Overall, the application largely complies with the SDVR guidelines which are found as attachment 4.

[2:22:24] Voice 1: During the notice period, so the period when people can comment, no responses were received for this application.

[2:22:31] Voice 1: so the recommendation for the renewal of the tup on page one of the staff report is supported

[2:22:37] Voice 1: as a three-year period is reasonable as the tup guidelines conditions largely conform to the

[2:22:43] Voice 1: current proposed changes to the stvr ocp guidelines there have been no complaints about the stvr since

[2:22:49] Voice 1: the original tup was issued in 2018 the guest capacity is reasonable and meets ocp guidelines

[2:22:54] Voice 1: and the permit the permit provides conditions to ensure that the use does not have an unreasonable

[2:23:00] Voice 1: reasonable impact on the local area and in the event it does there is an ability to enforce

[2:23:04] Voice 1: compliance tp and the applicant is at the meeting and um her daughter is also available here um

[2:23:13] Voice 1: remotely and they're both happy to answer any questions you might have and yeah thanks and

[2:23:18] Voice 1: happy friday

[2:23:34] Voice 16: okay thank

[2:23:35] Voice 2: you trustees um i just wanted to speak a little bit to um trustee morrison's comment um

[2:23:42] Voice 2: i think it's a little bit different for us in the fact that there's a couple different stvrs

[2:23:47] Voice 2: in the locale um we for the summer periods when we're not over there which we are a lot

[2:23:54] Voice 2: um require an extended stay from anybody who's coming over um which is why we're asking for the

[2:24:00] Voice 2: 60-day extension instead of 30 because we require um any of the families coming over to stay for at

[2:24:06] Voice 2: least seven days um we find that minimizes the traffic into the area um and just kind of ensures

[2:24:13] Voice 2: is that there's more longevity especially with scheduling and usage and whatnot so that was what

[2:24:18] Voice 2: our request was for around the 60 days if you think about you know requiring a guest to stay

[2:24:22] Voice 2: for at least seven to eight days um or those sorry those families if they're coming over um that

[2:24:28] Voice 2: really limits us to really um you know for the five month period not a lot of availability so

[2:24:33] Voice 2: that was um really the one area we are looking at when we're asking for the 60 days uh extension

[2:24:39] Voice 2: Yeah

[2:24:41] Voice 8: well thank you for that because I think that's like that idea of combining the extended

[2:24:48] Voice 8: time with extended stays like alleviates that kind of tension that folks have expressed in the past

[2:24:56] Voice 8: around excessive traffic on the ferries excessive like switching and like you know rotating in ways

[2:25:02] Voice 8: that are a little disorienting for people who live here full-time so it just a lot it calms

[2:25:08] Voice 8: some of the the issues in community and it's important like from the cohesiveness of our

[2:25:14] Voice 8: community because we don't necessarily want to turn into just a like you know rotating door

[2:25:19] Voice 8: situation it disrupts neighborhoods you

[2:25:22] Voice 2: know for sure for sure we're in a cul-de-sac there so we're

[2:25:25] Voice 2: trying to be mindful of everybody some people are full-time residents in there and uh we just want

[2:25:30] Voice 2: to minimize the flow um really of traffic in and out of there and just the disruption in general

[2:25:35] Voice 2: room

[2:25:35] Voice 8: yeah okay um do you have questions no

[2:25:40] Voice 4: i actually i i have a fair amount of experience

[2:25:43] Voice 4: with this particular i have friends that have stayed with you guys a couple of times now

[2:25:48] Voice 4: their their family and extended family and all their kids have stayed and then

[2:25:52] Voice 4: also i think leslie and i have dealt with each other at brownie years ago with some groups of

[2:25:58] Voice 4: ladies that have come over to hang out on the island

[2:26:01] Voice 10: so i know that

[2:26:01] Voice 4: they i know that they

[2:26:02] Voice 4: use it very much in the way that

[2:26:04] Voice 4: you were yeah with the last one it operates on the shoulder

[2:26:10] Voice 4: season as well and yeah and brings friends over as much as it is an stvr so yeah yeah

[2:26:17] Voice 8: no no so i'm

[2:26:19] Voice 8: fine with that and i do appreciate too i forgot to say this with the last applicant but i i do

[2:26:24] Voice 8: really appreciate um starting to just have people not that we necessarily want to see it we really

[2:26:30] Voice 8: put the issue of um watching water um really so that owners are watching water and watching use

[2:26:37] Voice 8: so we put it as an applicant as a as a component really to get people thinking about that from a

[2:26:43] Voice 8: water conservation perspective and i know that you're on the magic lake um system and because

[2:26:48] Voice 8: the the improvements that they've done i think it resolves a lot of the tensions that were going on

[2:26:53] Voice 8: a few years back around the sewer load um and stuff so yeah so i don't have any concerns about

[2:26:59] Voice 8: that and it looks like um everything was fine on that front so yeah so motion

[2:27:08] Voice 4: uh if

[2:27:08] Voice 7: you have it in front of you that

[2:27:09] Voice 4: the north bend around local trust committee approved

[2:27:12] Voice 4: issuance of temporary use permit mptp 2023.2

[2:27:17] Voice 16: second second for the discussion call question

[2:27:20] Voice 16: all in favor carries thank you very much thank

[2:27:24] Voice 8: you don't ask yet

[2:27:25] Voice 16: know

[2:27:26] Voice 8: yeah go

[2:27:30] Voice 14: ahead we have a tree that's grown so much and it's on the power line almost and it's

[2:27:35] Voice 14: are you

[2:27:43] Voice 8: guys in it you're on the the waterfront like in the dpa right

[2:27:50] Voice 8: Right. So

[2:27:50] Voice 6: I would just check, you know, I would just, we

[2:27:55] Voice 8: can check that

[2:27:55] Voice 6: for you. Yeah.

[2:27:56] Voice 6: Contact Brad.

[2:27:57] Voice 8: Yeah. If we, if you just reach out to Brad, then he can tell you where it lands.

[2:28:01] Voice 8: It's always good to check if you're in a DPA before, because that has happened a few times

[2:28:06] Voice 8: with people cut trees and DPAs, but if it's a danger tree, there's usually an exemption for it.

[2:28:10] Voice 8: So, and especially around the power line. So, but I would just check so that there's no problems.

[2:28:17] Voice 10: perfect

[2:28:17] Voice 8: um yep good thanks and and

[2:28:20] Voice 8: i would check on those um other you know as we go forward with

[2:28:24] Voice 8: conversations with the fire department and whatnot because we won't see you for another three years

[2:28:29] Voice 8: um i would just keep an eye on um and maybe we'll try and get that information out more

[2:28:34] Voice 8: broadly to folks who hold permits i

[2:28:36] Voice 7: know

[2:28:37] Voice 8: about fire like like related we'll try and distribute

[2:28:41] Voice 8: things that the fire department says you know these are the things we think should be in there

[2:28:45] Voice 8: know all right thank you thank

[2:28:48] Voice 16: you for the time drop off we've enjoyed you

[2:28:51] Voice 3: all right

[2:28:54] Voice 16: so now we're on to um projects is this really a project

[2:29:04] Voice 16: north plan your local trust committee draft fees uh bylaw number two two six thank you

[2:29:11] Voice 6: on the agenda in january ltc deferred it back on the agenda yeah

[2:29:15] Voice 13: horrible

[2:29:16] Voice 6: those things happen

[2:29:19] Voice 3: discussion right um 124.

[2:29:28] Voice 3: who has a

[2:29:31] Voice 16: thought or a motion to defer no

[2:29:35] Voice 8: questions defer um all right

[2:29:39] Voice 8: All right, I have one or two questions based on all the random conversations I had at Trust

[2:29:45] Voice 8: Council around this.

[2:29:46] Voice 8: So can I go?

[2:29:49] Voice 8: You're up.

[2:29:50] Voice 8: Okay.

[2:29:50] Voice 8: So for the major applications, I know that we can do, it's in our policies, that we can

[2:29:56] Voice 8: do some kind of agreement if things start to get too expensive.

[2:30:00] Voice 8: like that you can do a cost

[2:30:01] Voice 9: recovery thank you

[2:30:03] Voice 8: um and so the permit that's in here for

[2:30:06] Voice 8: a major permit um it's an estimate based on the average cost and then in addition there would be

[2:30:14] Voice 8: the potential to do a cost recovery if it starts to wildly exceed the average cost is that right

[2:30:20] Voice 8: or

[2:30:20] Voice 6: do you have to do cost recoveries or use them um uh universally um for when there's legal costs

[2:30:28] Voice 6: So that's in addition to and for rezoning typically.

[2:30:32] Voice 6: Yeah, there's the ability if an application is going on and on and on to enter into a cost recovery agreement for extraordinary costs, but primarily that's for rezoning.

[2:30:44] Voice 8: Okay, okay. It could be for anything but it's primarily rezoning.

[2:30:48] Voice 8: Yeah, we

[2:30:49] Voice 6: use it for rezoning.

[2:30:51] Voice 8: Okay, and then how do you, oh so a change in density or OCP is how you define the difference between major and minor?

[2:30:57] Voice 8: okay all right so on this after considering all the to-ing and fro-ing of the way the budget

[2:31:13] Voice 8: landed because you know this is my favorite conversation over the last three years or four

[2:31:17] Voice 8: years um so i am not in love with raising fees and i am actually for minimizing fees because

[2:31:28] Voice 8: because what I saw in the budget is minimal cost recovery,

[2:31:33] Voice 8: like $190,000 out of a two plus million dollar budget

[2:31:37] Voice 8: to do with permitting.

[2:31:38] Voice 8: It's hard to know exactly how much is to do with permitting,

[2:31:40] Voice 8: but, and from my perspective,

[2:31:45] Voice 8: I think we should, as an LTC,

[2:31:48] Voice 8: ask the trust council to reconsider their internal policy.

[2:31:51] Voice 8: It even seeks cost recovery on permits

[2:31:54] Voice 8: from the perspective of,

[2:31:55] Voice 8: so there's a philosophical difference, right?

[2:31:57] Voice 8: Of like, which way to go.

[2:31:58] Voice 8: one is that we should get cost recovery because people who develop should be paying for development

[2:32:03] Voice 8: that's the argument the flip side to that argument is um we permitting is inhibiting the like people

[2:32:12] Voice 8: are not going for permits they're waiting until they get into trouble and get caught because

[2:32:15] Voice 8: it's either a tedious process it's an expensive process it's a confusing process all of those

[2:32:21] Voice 8: things right so as we try to like rectify some of those other issues that we you know have been

[2:32:27] Voice 8: been problematic we still come down to the cost and if we're doubling or like increasing cost

[2:32:32] Voice 8: to try and get cost recovery my concern is that we're actually getting to a point where only rich

[2:32:37] Voice 8: people can afford the permitting and then they're not seeking the permitting and the permitting

[2:32:42] Voice 8: opens up a conversation with us to like help people it's like an educational tool and right

[2:32:48] Voice 8: now it's a punitive tool as opposed to an educational tool like because it's expensive

[2:32:52] Voice 8: And most of the costs, from my understanding, are to do with advertising costs that we have to pay for posting things in various forums, which may be shifting a little bit now, and or staffing costs related to processing and shuffling, like all the paper reporting on the paper.

[2:33:12] Voice 8: so i i have not been satisfied on the questions that i've been asking over the last three and a

[2:33:20] Voice 8: half years around the at the trust council level about this issue because and when the um regional

[2:33:28] Voice 8: planning committee took it and went away it came back and all it looked like to me was that it just

[2:33:32] Voice 8: went up for cost of inflation that nobody thought through the logic of why we're applying these fees

[2:33:38] Voice 8: at different levels and so i've been really reluctant to implement the new model fee bylaw

[2:33:43] Voice 8: because i think it creates ill will in the community to increase fees when we haven't

[2:33:48] Voice 8: sorted out our internal things and it also creates ill will to have to apply to comply

[2:33:55] Voice 8: with environmental mandate kind of work in this area it's in conflict with some of the rights

[2:34:05] Voice 8: that people are exerting around property rights right because people are like well i can do

[2:34:09] Voice 8: whatever i want on my property and now i have to come and ask you but i have to pay two thousand

[2:34:13] Voice 8: dollars or whatever to do something or a thousand dollars to ask this question and so like there's

[2:34:18] Voice 8: dilemmas right in this whole situation so i can make an argument either way that you should pay

[2:34:24] Voice 8: through the nose for it or that you should pay at all

[2:34:26] Voice 8: and frankly i can't see the cost recovery that

[2:34:30] Voice 8: the trust is doing right now it's not outweighing the financial gain of like offsetting costs

[2:34:37] Voice 8: is not outweighing the ill will and mistrust that people have because they're like entering the

[2:34:43] Voice 8: system so anyway i wouldn't mind to have a discussion about this because if we just pass

[2:34:48] Voice 8: this like every other ltc has you know i think

[2:34:52] Voice 4: it's i mean it's not just this that's right that

[2:34:57] Voice 4: people are struggling with

[2:34:59] Voice 4: right so it's one piece of it yeah i think there's a big

[2:35:03] Voice 4: a business aspect to um the fun the function of what

[2:35:10] Voice 10: planners

[2:35:12] Voice 4: do and and that needs to be

[2:35:16] Voice 4: compensated for um i completely misunderstood something uh before and that not even realizing

[2:35:28] Voice 4: that when it comes to people applying to build a house on pender that so much work is done

[2:35:35] Voice 4: by the trust and the planners and that all of the building permit money goes to the crd

[2:35:44] Voice 10: like

[2:35:44] Voice 4: to me that from a business perspective

[2:35:46] Voice 4: makes it's like it's such a bad business decision it's

[2:35:50] Voice 4: ridiculous you would never survive in doing that so there is a need to recover the costs of the

[2:36:00] Voice 4: time that somebody like brad puts into someone's development application like it like there is

[2:36:08] Voice 4: that need how you how you get that to bear out though i

[2:36:16] Voice 4: don't i don't know it seems like there

[2:36:20] Voice 4: should be a different system but what what is available to us to

[2:36:23] Voice 4: make that to make that work

[2:36:26] Voice 7: yeah that's an interesting question

[2:36:27] Voice 4: this whole thing about citing and use has come up and the

[2:36:30] Voice 4: idea of of that being um a much more streamlined process and and maybe that actually becomes a way

[2:36:38] Voice 4: to like redirect the cost of like cost of a building permit um to the to the trust instead

[2:36:50] Voice 4: instead of it going to the crd if it's just basically a check you know a box that's checked

[2:36:54] Voice 4: as opposed to anything that goes further with it i i don't know and then maybe that changes what

[2:37:00] Voice 4: the fees are going to be based off of a more accurate recovery of of the amount of work that

[2:37:09] Voice 4: is going into the on our end with no compensation right now well

[2:37:14] Voice 8: and see from my perspective then

[2:37:16] Voice 8: And like, I agree, because right now, like these fees, so if you're in, I don't know, I'm just magically, you know, if you're anywhere on this island that you're not in DPA, and you're not asking for a variance, you're not having to necessarily go through any of these permits, right?

[2:37:34] Voice 8: But staff is potentially still having to touch that application through a CRD referral, like.

[2:37:40] Voice 6: Yeah, it's actually going to come to us first.

[2:37:42] Voice 6: Yeah.

[2:37:42] Voice 8: um

[2:37:42] Voice 6: but yeah so we've got a process we've got actually a position yeah that's right

[2:37:55] Voice 6: and then there's all the time that brad spends on the phone with people

[2:38:00] Voice 6: that's right

[2:38:01] Voice 6: before they make their application yeah

[2:38:05] Voice 6: yeah and

[2:38:06] Voice 8: so that kind of cost to me should be a percentage of every building permit just comes

[2:38:11] Voice 3: to

[2:38:11] Voice 8: the trust because then it's actually more equitable across it's simpler process and i know

[2:38:16] Voice 8: there's probably some really complicated thing to get that but to me that seems like a protocol

[2:38:20] Voice 8: agreement it

[2:38:21] Voice 6: would be just a cost sharing with the CRB or revenue sharing yeah the CRB really is what

[2:38:25] Voice 6: it is so

[2:38:25] Voice 8: i kind of feel like we should go after it that way because that's more like a just and

[2:38:29] Voice 8: streamlined process than like and these are different these permits are to do with specific

[2:38:36] Voice 8: specific areas where development is said to be like fragile in some way related to dpas or

[2:38:42] Voice 8: variances so and and variances are a tricky one because like the things that i've seen as

[2:38:48] Voice 8: variances i like when i originally thought variances i'm like oh whatever if you if you

[2:38:53] Voice 8: want to bury your property and you because you want to do something extravagant well you should

[2:38:58] Voice 8: pay for it but reality variances frankly a lot of our variances are by law enforcement from

[2:39:03] Voice 8: something that was like 30 years ago and we're just trying to repair it and i just don't like

[2:39:07] Voice 6: more topographical yeah that

[2:39:10] Voice 8: kind of issue and so like it's not that straightforward the variances

[2:39:14] Voice 8: are just about like somebody who's wealthy and wants to do something sometimes it's somebody

[2:39:18] Voice 8: who's trying to comply with something and like there's just a historical weirdness right and so

[2:39:24] Voice 8: if like from my perspective i want to get those things fixed i want to get them varied and

[2:39:28] Voice 8: properly into our and i i want to make that it's smooth and simple but

[2:39:32] Voice 4: it does have to be a cost

[2:39:33] Voice 4: effect a cost attached to somebody's time attached to that but

[2:39:42] Voice 8: is that our fault because of the way

[2:39:44] Voice 8: things were originally established those types of things or is it the individual landowner and

[2:39:49] Voice 8: i understand like it's not that simple i guess it's what i'm trying to say yeah

[2:39:52] Voice 4: i mean things

[2:39:53] Voice 8: things have

[2:39:54] Voice 19: changed yeah i would add to that in my experience that the cost of the fee

[2:40:01] Voice 19: is typically way lower than the actual

[2:40:05] Voice 19: time is but to what to charge no fee or to seek lower fees just

[2:40:10] Voice 19: creates a higher issue so you know there was a lot of work done in those in investigating the

[2:40:19] Voice 19: appropriateness of those fees based on you know the different

[2:40:24] Voice 19: applications that we review and so

[2:40:29] Voice 19: there's rezoning applications where probably staff time like crystal mountain is over a hundred

[2:40:33] Voice 19: thousand dollars and they've recovered five thousand so

[2:40:37] Voice 19: in that context the fees are pretty

[2:40:40] Voice 19: reasonable relative to the bang for the buck that that applicant gets who's ultimately paying a fee

[2:40:46] Voice 19: to get to do something on the land that they can't do now so

[2:40:49] Voice 8: but that type of thing to me

[2:40:50] Voice 9: is a major project and we should be engaging like if we're getting to that kind of level

[2:40:56] Voice 9: of thing there should be a cost recovery right because that's why it just

[2:41:00] Voice 6: kind of happens

[2:41:00] Voice 6: but even the

[2:41:03] Voice 6: variance you know i've had lots of conversations with people who have discovered

[2:41:07] Voice 6: that they have a problem with the

[2:41:09] Voice 6: setting of the building on their property and my approach with

[2:41:13] Voice 6: them has always been to you know this you have to address it at some point yeah right when you

[2:41:17] Voice 6: go to sell the property you know realtors you know everyone has

[2:41:21] Voice 6: surveys now realtor realtors

[2:41:23] Voice 5: will point

[2:41:23] Voice 6: it out a buyer's realtor will point it out a surveyor will point it out

[2:41:27] Voice 6: now is the time to deal with it and it will save you time and money down the road to get this

[2:41:33] Voice 6: problem corrected now i'm

[2:41:36] Voice 8: not really arguing that like that things should be corrected i guess i'm

[2:41:40] Voice 8: I'm arguing that

[2:41:41] Voice 6: even with $1,900 now for the variance

[2:41:47] Voice 6: to bring your property into compliance

[2:41:48] Voice 6: so that when you or your state is going to sell

[2:41:51] Voice 6: the property, it's clean. You've got a survey and

[2:41:54] Voice 6: a permit that says everything on here is

[2:41:56] Voice 8: legal. And from a perspective of variances, I do

[2:41:59] Voice 8: understand that. I have seen some of the variances though that were just like, really? Like it's

[2:42:04] Voice 8: is such a i don't know like okay so the shed on the driftwood property that was like how i don't

[2:42:12] Voice 8: remember how much over it was into the setback on the to do with the moti line and they i can't

[2:42:19] Voice 8: remember why they even became a variance issue but anyway it was like the corner of the post of

[2:42:25] Voice 8: the shed was just slightly over into the variant into the setback and so they had to go through a

[2:42:29] Voice 8: variance permit process for it it was literally like one of those issues where i understand

[2:42:33] Voice 8: understand there's a legal component to it and all the paperwork needs to be done but it's from

[2:42:37] Voice 8: a pragmatic perspective it's like it's a modi right away next door i don't even care like nobody

[2:42:42] Voice 8: cared like and i know we all have to check on that but can we just like all sit around and have

[2:42:47] Voice 8: coffee and decide like can we just sign a paper and like have that done like i just and i know

[2:42:51] Voice 8: that that's not the way governments run and it frustrates me so

[2:42:54] Voice 5: yeah isn't there a variance

[2:43:01] Voice 5: Can you have a Board of Variants?

[2:43:04] Voice 5: That's more expensive.

[2:43:06] Voice 6: That's another

[2:43:07] Voice 6: route that people take. There's quite a bit of overlap between an IP

[2:43:11] Voice 6: and a Board of Variants. There's some things you can only use individual ones for. People can choose which route to go.

[2:43:18] Voice 8: yeah they're table four here on page 120 r13 so and maybe um you know like if you're game to do

[2:43:26] Voice 8: this we can go ahead and like approve this kind of fee setup but first of all i have to like we

[2:43:32] Voice 8: have to be clear that this is not cost recovery like we are not fulfilling cost recovery in any

[2:43:38] Voice 8: way shape or form like to your point like this is well below what cost recovery is so and the

[2:43:45] Voice 8: policy right now is cost recovery the intent of these the model bylaw was to bring it up to the

[2:43:50] Voice 8: current policy it didn't reach that and i followed all of that documentation all the way through

[2:43:56] Voice 8: about how that process was i actually potentially triggered some of the initial like re-measurement

[2:44:02] Voice 8: of that through motions in terms of trust council and so like so i guess i just feel like

[2:44:10] Voice 8: like what are we doing are we actually

[2:44:12] Voice 8: trying to have a class recovery or not

[2:44:14] Voice 8: not are we trying

[2:44:14] Voice 4: to I think though to to speak to your point about about starting a conversation

[2:44:21] Voice 4: with the CRD about trying to see if there's a way to revenue share is probably the wrong word but

[2:44:30] Voice 4: but it is that sort of a thing if depending on what direction citing and use goes depending on

[2:44:40] Voice 4: on how much of an argument can be made

[2:44:45] Voice 4: for the amount of work that is being done on this level

[2:44:48] Voice 4: before it even goes to them.

[2:44:53] Voice 4: It sounds like from a,

[2:44:57] Voice 4: at least from a CRD director's point of view,

[2:45:01] Voice 4: that he is amicable to them stepping out a bit.

[2:45:07] Voice 4: And so if there's, I think you can,

[2:45:10] Voice 4: you have to do something you know it's like keeping grounding open during the winter

[2:45:17] Voice 4: it makes no real sense but at least having some money coming in while you try to work towards

[2:45:24] Voice 4: building a profitable business makes more sense than than not doing like shuttering and not doing

[2:45:31] Voice 4: anything yeah so

[2:45:33] Voice 4: if it is just a case of and i was gonna say is basically the increase in fees

[2:45:37] Voice 4: is sort of is that accurate that it's just inflationary basically yeah it's basically

[2:45:43] Voice 8: just definitely just

[2:45:44] Voice 4: catching up so i mean there's that's pretty logical justification

[2:45:53] Voice 4: or they haven't really changed they've just gone up well for the

[2:45:57] Voice 4: cost of inflation but we need to

[2:45:58] Voice 4: do better work on actually making it work the way that where we are recovering money for the amount

[2:46:06] Voice 4: yeah so

[2:46:09] Voice 8: i would say there's two pieces to that one the cost of inflation increase to me is not

[2:46:14] Voice 8: really the thing i'm rubbing against part of the original fees themselves like what logic are they

[2:46:23] Voice 8: based on like that you know that i've tried to understand that and frankly i still don't

[2:46:29] Voice 8: understand that and so

[2:46:30] Voice 8: it's all kind of caught up to me in like understanding our governance

[2:46:34] Voice 8: understanding that organization like like being trustworthy and supported in the work that they're

[2:46:41] Voice 8: doing i personally think that increasing our fees right now while all that's in motion is a really

[2:46:47] Voice 8: bad move like because i think that it it telegraphs like if i can't clearly explain

[2:46:53] Voice 8: why our fees are the way they are and i followed all of the the like model fee by law renewal

[2:47:00] Voice 8: process and i still can't tell you what the logic is for why these fees are the way they are

[2:47:05] Voice 8: they're based on the data that they're based on is pilot in nature i have to say like and

[2:47:13] Voice 8: the costs that they're based on are the current costs which are problematic to me because i'm

[2:47:21] Voice 8: not clear that we had fully implemented the full planning shift i don't i don't i can't explain it

[2:47:28] Voice 8: put it this way i can't explain it to my community and that's a problem if we with double fees

[2:47:33] Voice 8: i

[2:47:34] Voice 19: just like to flip it around so your current fees are way too low probably to recover for sure

[2:47:43] Voice 19: the actual cost is higher than what the proposed new fees are at least by implementing the new

[2:47:51] Voice 19: fees you're closing that gap if

[2:47:54] Voice 8: you agree with the idea that we should be cost recovering

[2:47:57] Voice 8: as the policy currently is internally that we should be reaching cost recovery right so

[2:48:04] Voice 8: there's two

[2:48:05] Voice 8: there's two philosophical differences right one is that we should be

[2:48:09] Voice 8: working towards cost recovery because it's a business model it's like

[2:48:13] Voice 8: development is business

[2:48:14] Voice 8: the other argument that's been made by multiple trustees over the years many on

[2:48:20] Voice 8: pender and why

[2:48:21] Voice 8: things are likely low is because we should actually be encouraging people to go through

[2:48:26] Voice 8: the permitting system to comply with the bylaws so that any development that does happen is compliant

[2:48:31] Voice 8: with our mandate and that we are really trying to get people to abide by the mandate and not ask for

[2:48:36] Voice 8: forgiveness later or wait for law enforcement to

[2:48:38] Voice 7: come down right

[2:48:39] Voice 8: so it's it's a method of trying

[2:48:41] Voice 8: to encourage people to keep these low to get them actually into conversation in the space and and

[2:48:47] Voice 8: compliant to the space i'd go

[2:48:49] Voice 8: either way frankly and

[2:48:50] Voice 6: after that conversation is particularly about

[2:48:52] Voice 6: the 200 uh sensitive ecosystem dps that was always to be a temporary measure

[2:48:58] Voice 3: it

[2:48:59] Voice 6: was never to be

[2:49:00] Voice 6: permanently established indefinitely that would be a lower fee that was to be a temporary measure

[2:49:06] Voice 6: it was just never revisited that

[2:49:08] Voice 8: was gary steve yeah yeah touch

[2:49:11] Voice 3: it careful do

[2:49:14] Voice 4: we see i haven't

[2:49:15] Voice 4: heard much in the way of cost of the fees being the reason that somebody asked for permission

[2:49:28] Voice 3: yeah i have yeah yeah i'm just i'm

[2:49:31] Voice 4: that's that's i guess i'm more honest

[2:49:34] Voice 6: i've never heard that

[2:49:35] Voice 6: question

[2:49:35] Voice 4: or talking to

[2:49:36] Voice 6: someone it's not like well yeah i would have applied for the permit if it

[2:49:39] Voice 6: was a bit lower yeah so

[2:49:41] Voice 8: i've heard it in the other way i've heard it i applied for the permit but

[2:49:44] Voice 8: it's really hard to apply for these permits and buy by all these rules because the costs are

[2:49:48] Voice 8: are they they creep into all the costs of everything else that i have to do and like

[2:49:53] Voice 4: i've heard i've heard that like i've heard people argue that in but my response to them typically

[2:50:00] Voice 4: is it's like when i lived in summerland we called it a sunshine tax right it's a sort of is a it's

[2:50:09] Voice 4: an oddity of living where we live in that we've got an extra level of government and that people

[2:50:16] Voice 4: people don't sort of expect maybe before they come depend around that that'll yeah it's an

[2:50:23] Voice 4: associated cost of living and these fees are no different than what any other government

[2:50:28] Voice 4: and the

[2:50:29] Voice 19: powers that you are using are no different than any of the other governments just that

[2:50:34] Voice 19: the district of sandwich has their land use planning function as a service within all their

[2:50:40] Voice 19: other local government services we are just a single service organization but we are still

[2:50:46] Voice 19: using the same uh you know we have a few things in the island in the in the islands trust act around

[2:50:52] Voice 19: rwms and such that are different but we are using

[2:50:55] Voice 19: the same part 14 land use management tools that

[2:50:59] Voice 19: all the other local governments are temporary so they're not doing anything different than us

[2:51:04] Voice 19: and they're like their fees aren't uh any different either in my view

[2:51:13] Voice 19: these fees are meant to in most cases

[2:51:16] Voice 19: either enable someone to do something that they are

[2:51:19] Voice 19: not currently allowed

[2:51:20] Voice 19: to do on their land base and it's buyer beware you buy the land base

[2:51:23] Voice 19: based on the laws not based on what you want to do if you want to do something different outside

[2:51:29] Voice 19: of that then in my view you should have to pay for that and so right so what is the level of

[2:51:37] Voice 19: subsidy do you give that person who wants to do something that they're currently not allowed

[2:51:41] Voice 19: whether it be a bigger sun deck on the front of their waterfront or in most cases the development

[2:51:47] Voice 19: permits that we are processing are not for people that are seeking to actively create a pond or to

[2:51:53] Voice 19: protect something it's because they want to damage something to do something that makes their

[2:51:57] Voice 19: personal life more comfortable

[2:51:59] Voice 8: yeah and i would argue that we're also doing and we can waive

[2:52:04] Voice 8: waive fees for community purpose but we have to think about that too because there are some

[2:52:10] Voice 8: things that happen on this island that are beyond just a single actor like they have a community

[2:52:17] Voice 8: imprint like and and i think we need to think about that a little bit because like how we and

[2:52:24] Voice 8: maybe that's like as things come to us we actually need to ask that question more regularly like

[2:52:28] Voice 8: Like, where is the security benefit and that those fees get waived?

[2:52:33] Voice 8: Because like if we go for like trying your sort of argument, Rob, like I think the current

[2:52:41] Voice 8: policy in the trust internally is 100% cost recovery.

[2:52:44] Voice 8: We are nowhere near that.

[2:52:46] Voice 8: So if we agree that like the principle underneath this, and I'm just, I'm happy to have this

[2:52:51] Voice 8: conversation

[2:52:51] Voice 1: because I want to understand where you are on this.

[2:52:53] Voice 8: So if we agree that the principle that is guiding us in this NLTC is that we are going

[2:52:59] Voice 8: to be compliant with the trust council policy of 100 cost recovery then we have to understand that

[2:53:05] Voice 8: this is nowhere near it and that the fees will be much higher right because and hopefully hopefully

[2:53:11] Voice 8: there will be some like you know there's a bunch of movie pieces right because hopefully things

[2:53:16] Voice 8: will be more efficient we'll streamline certain things and like that'll all influence the average

[2:53:20] Voice 8: cost too but like that yeah the

[2:53:23] Voice 16: only thing i'll caution though is waiting the fees that goes to

[2:53:27] Voice 16: executive committee they haven't increased their budget so so what's happened is that the fees have

[2:53:33] Voice 16: gone up but the ability to waive fees has gone down because they still have the same line budget

[2:53:40] Voice 16: for for the ability to waive fees so that's there's

[2:53:44] Voice 8: a budget for their waiving a fee

[2:53:46] Voice 16: oh

[2:53:47] Voice 8: isn't that interesting like it's a

[2:53:48] Voice 16: refund can we

[2:53:50] Voice 8: do that out of our ltc budget too

[2:53:53] Voice 8: yeah

[2:53:53] Voice 16: no so it's out of ec so so

[2:53:55] Voice 8: that's actually not our control no oh

[2:53:57] Voice 8: that's problematic so

[2:53:58] Voice 16: basically it goes to ec the way they're they're basically they're they're easy tends to endorse

[2:54:04] Voice 16: always yeah

[2:54:05] Voice 8: but to

[2:54:06] Voice 16: the level but

[2:54:06] Voice 8: you're basically saying that we get to determine what a community

[2:54:09] Voice 8: need is only we don't ec gets to determine that

[2:54:11] Voice 6: trust council is adopted that policy wow

[2:54:14] Voice 8: that's a little bit problematic from an lcc perspective yes yeah so okay oh hell okay i'm

[2:54:21] Voice 8: sorry let's

[2:54:22] Voice 6: say that if the trust council policy says that cost recovery is the goal and our dc

[2:54:29] Voice 6: spent like two years debating and trying to come up with this and reached a point where

[2:54:36] Voice 6: they've presented a

[2:54:38] Voice 6: model bylaw that's not 100% with cost recovery it's that policy that should

[2:54:43] Voice 6: be revisited

[2:54:44] Voice 9: yeah no that's what i'm arguing say

[2:54:45] Voice 6: full cost recovery is not realistic we should have

[2:54:49] Voice 6: a fee a policy around fees that is recapturing a reasonable portion yeah

[2:54:56] Voice 8: and i i'm completely

[2:54:57] Voice 8: with you and that's actually one of the reasons i wanted to have this conversation is i think as

[2:55:00] Voice 8: an ltc we need to name that like if we

[2:55:03] Voice 8: really think that that this so so so for instance aaron

[2:55:07] Voice 8: if if we decide like this model fee by law is okay for us we can bear it as a community and

[2:55:13] Voice 8: we're going to go ahead with it then i want the tc to like be consistent because this isn't cost

[2:55:19] Voice 8: recovery there's no way i know that i've looked at all the numbers i know that right and

[2:55:24] Voice 8: so i want

[2:55:24] Voice 8: their policy to be changed for them to come back with a better model that it's more cost recovery

[2:55:30] Voice 8: i just want to be consistent because we're inconsistent right now and it really bothers

[2:55:34] Voice 8: me that we're inconsistent so

[2:55:36] Voice 16: the way you're saying right now you'd be prepared to pass this

[2:55:40] Voice 16: bylaw and to yes or no but and but then subsequently is it trust counselor or about the

[2:55:47] Voice 16: the regional planning committee going

[2:55:49] Voice 8: you need to reach the council

[2:55:50] Voice 16: to decide but

[2:55:51] Voice 8: yeah so i there's

[2:55:52] Voice 8: a few ways forward here one i am not a fan of passing this bylaw right now i have to decide i

[2:55:59] Voice 8: have to think about a little bit more whether i would go ahead and the reason i'm not a fan is

[2:56:03] Voice 8: because i think there's too much too many other things related to governance related to

[2:56:08] Voice 8: communications related to um just like how we're doing business as a trust to ensure that we're

[2:56:17] Voice 8: we're effective completely and we're communicating that i think it breaks trust with our communities

[2:56:22] Voice 8: to increase our fees when we haven't done our internal work to show that we're actually using

[2:56:27] Voice 8: our money effectively so

[2:56:29] Voice 4: why don't we defer

[2:56:30] Voice 5: i know i know

[2:56:33] Voice 10: somebody

[2:56:35] Voice 5: put a blood pressure monitor

[2:56:36] Voice 5: i know

[2:56:39] Voice 8: and we're going to continue to be one of the two councils

[2:56:44] Voice 8: but i was

[2:56:45] Voice 4: just gonna say if you like deferred and bring it forward in in june well

[2:56:51] Voice 3: i think yeah

[2:56:52] Voice 3: put

[2:56:52] Voice 4: it on put it on the agenda for june at trust council to bring up as a as a point yeah and and

[2:57:02] Voice 4: and put something into that and then yeah

[2:57:07] Voice 8: i think if we defer it i would defer it to december

[2:57:10] Voice 8: because i don't think we're going to see a lot of movement on governance and other things fully

[2:57:14] Voice 8: until like some of those things are coming back in june and september to the trust council for

[2:57:19] Voice 8: movement and i think by december i could clearly say to community these are the things that are

[2:57:26] Voice 8: happening these are the things that are doing and this is the reason and then but i do think

[2:57:30] Voice 8: you're right we should bring it to june the policy we should bring to the council in june

[2:57:35] Voice 8: and say you know what we're never going to get cost recovery on this can we be a little more

[2:57:39] Voice 8: honest and revisit this policy that

[2:57:41] Voice 3: i want to do

[2:57:41] Voice 8: in june but i

[2:57:43] Voice 3: think we defer

[2:57:43] Voice 8: this bylaw until

[2:57:45] Voice 8: december because in december i feel like i would have enough information from trust council to be

[2:57:50] Voice 8: able to increase fees and feel justified that we're doing something internally

[2:57:54] Voice 4: and maybe maybe

[2:57:56] Voice 4: what comes out of june is regional planning could be gets directed

[2:58:01] Voice 4: to look at changing something or

[2:58:03] Voice 4: or there is movement forward for September.

[2:58:11] Voice 8: September, there's a bunch of stuff coming back and reporting.

[2:58:13] Voice 4: We have a big, you know, we have a further discussion of it.

[2:58:16] Voice 4: At least that's what I feel like I'm hearing from you,

[2:58:20] Voice 4: is you are more having an issue with the policy aspect

[2:58:28] Voice 4: and this not meeting what you feel the policy to be.

[2:58:30] Voice 8: Yeah, two pieces, that for sure.

[2:58:33] Voice 8: And that we haven't done our internal work,

[2:58:35] Voice 8: and i don't feel okay asking our community for increased fees when there's still especially on

[2:58:41] Voice 8: this island like there is a lot of tension around the costs of the trust and that we need to be able

[2:58:48] Voice 8: to clearly communicate with our community why those costs costs are justified that the community

[2:58:55] Voice 8: bears these different costs and i don't i don't see us doing that yet but by december i feel like

[2:59:01] Voice 8: we'll have maybe even september i feel like we'll have actually like hopefully internally thought

[2:59:06] Voice 8: through those communication challenges and understand that in a way that we can do this

[2:59:11] Voice 8: so there's two motions there if i is there a draft one for deferring did you anticipate us

[2:59:24] Voice 6: just defer a motion to defer and direct staff to bring it back out the

[2:59:31] Voice 8: um which is not

[2:59:32] Voice 4: in december it'd be okay okay i

[2:59:37] Voice 8: moved that the north kender act

[2:59:39] Voice 8: local trust committee um asked to or defer the consideration of bylaw

[2:59:46] Voice 8: proposed fee bylaw 226 until the November 2023 meeting is that appropriate

[3:00:00] Voice 16: have that yes

[3:00:03] Voice 13: i do thank

[3:00:05] Voice 16: you second for the discussion call question on favor carries okay

[3:00:11] Voice 8: and then the second one would be that um the local the north tender local trust committee

[3:00:20] Voice 8: okay wait a minute before we make this motion is is it that we're writing a letter to trust

[3:00:26] Voice 8: council to

[3:00:27] Voice 5: consider one of you would write an rfd

[3:00:29] Voice 8: oh it's not

[3:00:30] Voice 8: empty okay

[3:00:31] Voice 5: okay

[3:00:32] Voice 4: so

[3:00:39] Voice 6: i'll

[3:00:44] Voice 8: just do that

[3:00:47] Voice 8: so yeah and i'll try to do that i'm not going to touch it until april so it'll probably be

[3:00:52] Voice 8: main meeting okay perfect that i don't know if that is in time for yeah it should be fine

[3:00:57] Voice 8: for getting it into because it's a whole month ahead

[3:01:00] Voice 4: well let's yeah be careful don't do what

[3:01:02] Voice 4: i did i'll

[3:01:03] Voice 8: lay it were you late that

[3:01:05] Voice 4: was the day so i will

[3:01:06] Voice 8: try and get that done

[3:01:07] Voice 8: okay so i just got a great note to that okay thank you all

[3:01:14] Voice 16: right so we'll move on

[3:01:16] Voice 16: to work program reports hopefully we can spin through a bunch of this stuff quickly

[3:01:22] Voice 16: So over to

[3:01:24] Voice 6: WB review, you've got the public hearing coming up in May, groundwater sustainability project.

[3:01:29] Voice 6: Narissa will be bringing a report to your next meeting to follow up from the information meeting you have.

[3:01:37] Voice 6: And part of that will be asking the LTC to confirm whether or not

[3:01:43] Voice 6: to proceed with the project or to defer it or to put it onto the future projects list and prioritize something else.

[3:01:51] Voice 6: that'll be your opportunity to really as an ltc decide do you want to carry on with this project

[3:01:57] Voice 6: the dpa is for groundwater protection okay

[3:02:00] Voice 8: can we talk about that briefly okay because i actually

[3:02:04] Voice 8: would like to have that project not be defined specifically as a like so so i think one of the

[3:02:11] Voice 8: things that we need to do is we actually need to have more conversations in community now

[3:02:16] Voice 8: how about the groundwater data and like if we come in with dpas right now like suggested dpas that

[3:02:24] Voice 8: are brought forward as a project i think we'll lose half our community yeah so

[3:02:28] Voice 8: yeah so one of

[3:02:29] Voice 6: the options one

[3:02:29] Voice 8: of the

[3:02:30] Voice 6: options would be proceed with dpas another option was easy to uh you know

[3:02:37] Voice 6: do more community consultation i think we should do um and uh another option for this project put

[3:02:44] Voice 6: it into the future projects list make something else your your active project okay

[3:02:49] Voice 8: because i would

[3:02:50] Voice 8: love to see two parallel things going on one a housing project that we kind of like dig into

[3:02:55] Voice 8: more deeply and one uh education effort and community to talk about water like those are

[3:02:59] Voice 8: the two things i'd like to see happen are those in conflict so

[3:03:03] Voice 6: uh what you should also start thinking

[3:03:06] Voice 6: about and because june is coming up fast is putting in a business case the next fiscal year

[3:03:13] Voice 6: for a major project okay

[3:03:16] Voice 8: i don't want either one of these to be a major project yet

[3:03:19] Voice 8: necessarily but i just want conversations and community to see around those two things

[3:03:23] Voice 8: yeah

[3:03:23] Voice 4: i think i would agree i think like doing doing some like groundwork sort of to start with

[3:03:30] Voice 4: the idea that it could could potentially become a more major thing because i think it applies

[3:03:36] Voice 4: applies any work that Maine did is going to be brought forward by another you know like to look

[3:03:43] Voice 4: at like you start to get digging into these different things and it may be something that

[3:03:48] Voice 4: you address on a larger scale

[3:03:50] Voice 8: yeah regional level that's the other thing how how did we ask for

[3:03:53] Voice 8: projects that are like like our groundwater project that kind of co-opted as a southern

[3:03:57] Voice 8: gold island project all

[3:03:59] Voice 6: five southern lts right

[3:04:01] Voice 4: and i think that that is likely where most of our

[3:04:09] Voice 4: southern ltcs are looking right now is that housing you know like a housing project is

[3:04:16] Voice 4: an issue and we have this water project the project aspect of it is done right the mapping

[3:04:23] Voice 6: part of it's done

[3:04:24] Voice 4: you haven't decided

[3:04:25] Voice 6: what you want to

[3:04:25] Voice 4: do yeah implementation hasn't come forward

[3:04:29] Voice 4: but the actual spend of doing the project the

[3:04:35] Voice 6: big the big spend is done yeah um you could if you if

[3:04:38] Voice 6: you did want to

[3:04:39] Voice 6: proceed with it as dpas like eliano is it's just the cost of the public hearing and

[3:04:45] Voice 6: consultations that would be a minor project yeah you could start talking about housing in your

[3:04:50] Voice 6: your community

[3:04:50] Voice 10: um

[3:04:51] Voice 6: this sort of spring yeah um but what i really recommend is you at least put a

[3:04:59] Voice 6: placeholder business case together for the summer to get into financial planning committee and

[3:05:05] Voice 6: regional planning committee in the fall so you'll have money next year you always withdraw it yeah

[3:05:10] Voice 3: right

[3:05:10] Voice 6: if you decide to proceed with it start to turn your mind to what you want to do um next

[3:05:17] Voice 6: fiscal year because you don't want to be in a position where you've got your one minor project

[3:05:22] Voice 6: and that's it yeah

[3:05:24] Voice 8: and this is this is frankly my dilemma on a governance front is like regional

[3:05:30] Voice 8: planning sort of my understanding of when i talked to david originally when the when the

[3:05:35] Voice 8: implementation of the 2018 kind of report of like moving to some regional kind of efforts of planning

[3:05:39] Voice 8: one of the ideas would be that islands wouldn't necessarily put forward individual cases like

[3:05:45] Voice 8: that but as a cluster we'd say hey we all want to work on housing and then like then we still have

[3:05:50] Voice 8: like the individual island pieces of what that cost is but the cost of the project overall is

[3:05:54] Voice 8: different to estimate because it's a collaborative effort and the hearings and i get there's like

[3:05:59] Voice 8: hearings

[3:06:00] Voice 6: and there's deviation right yeah look at what happened trying to even get the floor area

[3:06:04] Voice 6: the same one yeah it starts to start like the i don't take up too much time on this but the like

[3:06:12] Voice 6: the analysis and the mapping and all that stuff that works great in a regional level

[3:06:16] Voice 6: once you get to the ltc and what they want to do with that they really have become separate

[3:06:21] Voice 6: projects at that point okay

[3:06:22] Voice 8: so we'll consider that um i so personally i would like to see

[3:06:28] Voice 8: conversations this year around water housing and like how those intersect and i'd like them just

[3:06:33] Voice 8: to be held like you know community information meetings frankly as part of every ltc wouldn't

[3:06:38] Voice 8: her just to have a little bit of a conversation and community around that and then

[3:06:42] Voice 8: in our special

[3:06:43] Voice 8: meetings and i think they're intersectional and what project like what what way we choose to

[3:06:49] Voice 8: pursue the actual dps if that's a move i think the easy moves are education and mapping annex

[3:06:56] Voice 8: mapping the the water map to our current ocp files or however that works i thought that was

[3:07:04] Voice 8: was a cool idea whoever had that in the meeting the other day and so like we can do those things

[3:07:08] Voice 8: with relatively low hanging fruit kind of

[3:07:10] Voice 8: things and then the dpa pursuing that i i feel like if

[3:07:15] Voice 8: we start with regulation and then try to open up a conversation that'll be a pretty nightmare here

[3:07:20] Voice 8: and so like we need to we need we have to have that conversation i

[3:07:27] Voice 4: think i think if we can fit

[3:07:28] Voice 4: it into into the planned meetings that we already have yeah

[3:07:33] Voice 7: and

[3:07:35] Voice 4: and work some some of that stuff

[3:07:37] Voice 4: into into there yeah

[3:07:39] Voice 8: i don't really want to start

[3:07:41] Voice 4: extra meetings so

[3:07:42] Voice 8: one of the things to know about

[3:07:45] Voice 8: that though just from like past experience with um the engagement generally ramps up as soon as

[3:07:53] Voice 8: you have

[3:07:54] Voice 8: some type of type of text

[3:07:55] Voice 3: and

[3:07:56] Voice 8: you can talk yourselves blue in the face around what you

[3:07:59] Voice 8: want to do is when you actually start to get text on the paper that people really tune in

[3:08:03] Voice 8: and so that's one of the reasons to put text on the table and then thrash at it is because it

[3:08:10] Voice 8: gets people unmotivated the problem is we want to ensure that whatever text we put on the table

[3:08:16] Voice 8: is close enough that we don't have this backlash and push against it right so i think yeah so let's

[3:08:24] Voice 8: think about the cases we should how do we have to do for that

[3:08:28] Voice 6: so sort of by June probably is

[3:08:31] Voice 6: have an idea about what you want to do next fiscal year and then put a

[3:08:37] Voice 6: business case together

[3:08:38] Voice 6: over the summer and then starting in September or October to go to FPC and RPC

[3:08:44] Voice 6: in order to get into the budget because you think about it the

[3:08:47] Voice 6: first draft budget you're

[3:08:48] Voice 6: considering in December trust council

[3:08:50] Voice 8: oh I know yeah I'm really it's in the September it has to

[3:08:53] Voice 8: in september you have to be really

[3:08:55] Voice 19: considerate you do have a saturday meeting in june and then

[3:08:59] Voice 19: coming up maybe you have that focused on you know we want to hear from you on what your priorities

[3:09:04] Voice 19: are i know it sort

[3:09:06] Voice 4: of had you know kind of brushed that over as being the next kind of a

[3:09:13] Voice 4: community information type meeting with people to see like housing was i think what had come

[3:09:21] Voice 4: up at the time yeah maybe that's maybe it doesn't have to be super long it just can be i think we

[3:09:30] Voice 8: should do water again too because there's people that didn't hear it here and like i think if we

[3:09:35] Voice 8: have two topics and we put them as different start times within the community information people

[3:09:39] Voice 8: meaning people can come for a housing conversation or they can come for more water or they can stay

[3:09:43] Voice 8: for both um

[3:09:45] Voice 19: you could also have a dis or at least raise the topic around uh gauging the appetite for

[3:09:52] Voice 19: more dpa development so the at least

[3:09:55] Voice 1: even if they

[3:09:55] Voice 19: say no housing is more important at least then you

[3:09:58] Voice 19: have put that

[3:09:59] Voice 19: out there that we are thinking about this really this one tool to manage forestry yeah

[3:10:06] Voice 8: yeah yeah

[3:10:06] Voice 8: it's intersectional with a lot of different issues so okay so i think i think

[3:10:12] Voice 8: it would be helpful i'd like to so i don't know what we need to do right this moment around this

[3:10:17] Voice 8: but okay i

[3:10:19] Voice 3: guess the other

[3:10:19] Voice 8: thing i would like to name is from the water study i would like a

[3:10:22] Voice 8: little more information on what's required for us to annex that water um map onto there's somebody

[3:10:29] Voice 8: suggested it was williams suggested that there was a way to just create it as an annex so that

[3:10:33] Voice 8: we can use it in our decision making

[3:10:34] Voice 6: yeah you know a schedule to your dp ocp yeah just like

[3:10:39] Voice 6: there's other information schedules

[3:10:40] Voice 8: i would like that so i just that would be a really minor

[3:10:43] Voice 6: project okay so

[3:10:44] Voice 8: if you can tell us what we need to do to do that that would be helpful so that

[3:10:47] Voice 6: should be an option then so you're still bringing that forward at

[3:10:50] Voice 6: the info meeting

[3:10:53] Voice 8: yeah that would be super helpful because i thought that was a really simple way to start to

[3:10:58] Voice 8: engage with that information a little bit more deeply it's management

[3:11:02] Voice 9: i'm sure somebody will

[3:11:05] Voice 9: really be really annoyed about that but that will help with that voice and that conversation right

[3:11:12] Voice 9: thank you so

[3:11:17] Voice 16: we're at applications report yeah

[3:11:20] Voice 19: really to speak to specifically in the report

[3:11:24] Voice 19: i will say that uh based on uh your request at the last ltc meeting i've met with aaron grimmer

[3:11:30] Voice 19: oh yeah

[3:11:30] Voice 19: and barbara yeah at the site and uh we talked about recently versus another temporary

[3:11:36] Voice 19: his permit and he sees logic and seeking rezoning at this point as well so he's going to start

[3:11:42] Voice 19: working towards a submission of a rezoning application what's

[3:11:46] Voice 7: the timeline on that do you

[3:11:47] Voice 7: know

[3:11:47] Voice 19: like he's turning his mind to it now so i think at least he would have well i told him that

[3:11:53] Voice 19: ideally we would have an application in place uh by the time his tdp expires and then i guess the

[3:12:00] Voice 19: local trust committee could either renew his

[3:12:04] Voice 19: like consider renewal of his permit while the rezoning

[3:12:07] Voice 19: is occurring which is a cheap fee

[3:12:10] Voice 19: um and then it's legalized and the road zoning will probably take

[3:12:15] Voice 19: at least a year uh complexity of and community concerns that come forward uh but that would be

[3:12:24] Voice 19: my suggestion is that you see a renewal of his temporary spread the other

[3:12:28] Voice 19: option would be for

[3:12:29] Voice 19: you to receive his rezoning application and just put any other kind of enforcement in advance

[3:12:35] Voice 19: because he has an active file yeah that would be up to you okay um

[3:12:41] Voice 8: the his it expires in june right

[3:12:44] Voice 8: i think it's amazing so if we can bring that up on the agenda again next week next month and we can

[3:12:50] Voice 8: kind of see what the plan is because like i'm prefer not to do a b and sub bylaw and to have

[3:12:57] Voice 8: I

[3:12:57] Voice 19: think it's more appropriate myself too, because the fee is so low for the temporary use permit, he's meeting all the conditions, so it would be a pretty easy

[3:13:05] Voice 6: decision to

[3:13:07] Voice 19: ask him to both apply for his rezoning, and as we work through that, just to ensure legality and no problems on your end

[3:13:16] Voice 19: and on the community's end, you also get that temporary use permit in place.

[3:13:20] Voice 19: and that that window of the permit uh would hopefully be enough time to uh get him to a

[3:13:27] Voice 19: place where he has recently yeah

[3:13:30] Voice 8: so i would prefer if we ask him to do that just because like that

[3:13:34] Voice 8: tp originally started as a file enforcement tv i don't want it to be out of enforcement like i

[3:13:38] Voice 8: don't want to be back into a violence but

[3:13:40] Voice 16: it shouldn't technically speaking it shouldn't

[3:13:43] Voice 16: get into enforcement if there's an application for us correct um

[3:13:47] Voice 6: north bender has a standing

[3:13:48] Voice 6: resolution to enforce um when um well there's still an application in okay

[3:13:55] Voice 8: yeah and it's because

[3:13:56] Voice 8: we've had um non-compliance on like people not getting permits like in place and delays and

[3:14:02] Voice 8: sort of yeah so let's try and get a grip on that every other

[3:14:05] Voice 4: unrelated to that specifically but we we can direct enforcement towards a specific

[3:14:21] Voice 4: topic or a specific contravention

[3:14:25] Voice 6: not as well you you go in camera and make decisions on specific

[3:14:30] Voice 6: um issue like in a specific property so

[3:14:35] Voice 10: i'm a bit more

[3:14:36] Voice 6: generally yeah you can you can um

[3:14:39] Voice 6: say to law enforcement uh proactively enforce on this topic that's right like stvr stvr

[3:14:47] Voice 6: or defer enforcement on this particular type of contravention so

[3:14:58] Voice 4: don't we have then

[3:15:01] Voice 4: basically three levels of bylaw enforcement then we have because we've got complaint driven

[3:15:10] Voice 4: that's yeah passive

[3:15:12] Voice 10: bylaw

[3:15:14] Voice 4: notification notice which is proactive

[3:15:17] Voice 4: active no so

[3:15:19] Voice 6: that's the tool that's the ticket unfortunately isn't that isn't that its own

[3:15:26] Voice 6: bylaw no well

[3:15:28] Voice 6: it is a bylaw

[3:15:29] Voice 4: authorizing the use of a ticket system

[3:15:32] Voice 6: right

[3:15:33] Voice 4: but it has its own it has

[3:15:35] Voice 4: its own process because it doesn't have to come before the local trust in order for it to be

[3:15:46] Voice 4: be activated right so a ticket can be written but

[3:15:49] Voice 6: there's also a policy that says uh violent

[3:15:53] Voice 6: enforcement is by complaint right that's a trust council policy or with these exceptions these

[3:16:00] Voice 6: three or four exceptions right like uh environmental issues health and safety um or local trust

[3:16:08] Voice 6: committees can also adopt their own um enforcement policies where they can say proactively enforce

[3:16:16] Voice 6: force on or don't enforce on um illegal food trucks

[3:16:23] Voice 6: yeah

[3:16:24] Voice 8: so we have a couple standing

[3:16:26] Voice 8: resolutions right now so it's basically like there's just two tiers of things you're talking

[3:16:30] Voice 8: about one is what instigates enforcement and then once enforcement's instigated

[3:16:39] Voice 8: what processes are going through to like notice and what are the steps in the enforcement process

[3:16:44] Voice 8: But the instigation of enforcement is either through a statement of these are complaint driven or these are really active things because they're considered to be like very egregious kind of race.

[3:16:59] Voice 8: So there's a list. OK, how about things that get enforced on only by complaint or things that get enforced on actively?

[3:17:06] Voice 8: Some of those active enforcement things are either in our trust counsel policy or they're in our own standing resolutions.

[3:17:12] Voice 8: we have several standing resolutions related to that one is derelict vehicles here on north

[3:17:17] Voice 8: bender we we actively enforce on derelict vehicles that might be an in-camera conversation if i get

[3:17:23] Voice 8: into any more depth on that i'm not sure but um we we chose not to enforce on every single

[3:17:30] Voice 8: derelict vehicle because that's very expensive from the ltc's perspective so so so in turn

[3:17:38] Voice 8: okay so we can we can argue that individually if you want that's a

[3:17:42] Voice 8: standing resolution that we

[3:17:43] Voice 8: as a three like have on the books in terms of actively enforcing on on derelict vehicles and

[3:17:50] Voice 8: then the other one is things we said that are in our bylaws even if there's a complaint we said

[3:17:56] Voice 8: suspend enforcement and so like that was food trucks during covid yeah

[3:18:01] Voice 6: that's the actually the

[3:18:03] Voice 6: next uh agenda topic but a good example that almost all uh ltcs have adopted policies don't

[3:18:09] Voice 6: enforce on lawful laws right

[3:18:11] Voice 8: because right now like the housing issue so we asked like not to

[3:18:15] Voice 8: enforce on unlawful dwellings until we sort our housing issue out so those are things that we're

[3:18:20] Voice 8: we have a standing resolution to actively not enforce on that issue so even if there's a

[3:18:25] Voice 8: complaint they can't do anything about it right now so we don't want to necessarily actively

[3:18:31] Voice 8: Actively on not enforce on everything because that's super sweeping and we don't want to do that. But if there are specific things that you're considering either actively enforcing on or actively not enforcing on, then we should see what those are.

[3:18:44] Voice 8: Does that make sense? The Bend By-law is a, that's, once you pass through that initial screen of things that are active or inactively enforced, then you get into the process by which we're enforcing, which is the Bend By-law.

[3:18:56] Voice 8: thoughts no

[3:19:02] Voice 10: you

[3:19:04] Voice 4: do not want them no i do

[3:19:06] Voice 8: i do not

[3:19:07] Voice 3: okay yeah so

[3:19:09] Voice 8: but like we do need to make a

[3:19:11] Voice 8: decision if we're okay with the things that we're actively or not actively enforcing on here

[3:19:15] Voice 8: because that's our choices so

[3:19:18] Voice 16: we'll just we'll pop on trusting local access report yeah we're

[3:19:24] Voice 16: fine with that so now we're now we're into that box so standing resolutions adopted policies

[3:19:31] Voice 6: We've got a brief report here. The LTC asked me last meeting to come back with a report

[3:19:37] Voice 6: on out-of-date standing resolutions. So the report's on page 141 of the agenda package.

[3:19:45] Voice 6: I've gone through them. I've identified some that I recommend rescinding. The rationale

[3:19:52] Voice 6: for rescinding them are they're old and out of date. There's four of those. There's three

[3:19:59] Voice 6: resolutions that were adopted during the pandemic state of emergency and are no longer relevant

[3:20:04] Voice 6: and there's one resolution that has had limited applicability or response and that's the referring

[3:20:09] Voice 6: to the CRD of STVR TUPs and then a number of the other ones on the table that point out that the

[3:20:17] Voice 6: LTC might want to review these or confirm whether they're still the LTCs we wish and those are

[3:20:26] Voice 6: primarily the bylaw enforcement ones so the kind of summary table is on page 142 and then the next

[3:20:33] Voice 6: item that is attached is the complete word able standing

[3:20:39] so

[3:20:41] Voice 8: randy want to proceed because there there is one way we could now that we have this report

[3:20:46] Voice 8: we could sit on in a month and like have conversations with our community about like

[3:20:51] Voice 8: these standing resolutions now that they're all in one spot and then come back in april and make

[3:20:56] Voice 8: some decisions about keeps this toss that whatever um or additional things

[3:21:03] Voice 4: some of them are coded specific right yeah so

[3:21:09] Voice 3: those could be dealt with because they're also

[3:21:19] Voice 3: um like

[3:21:23] Voice 4: the problems that you're sending the liquor area like expanded liquor areas

[3:21:30] Voice 4: and that kind of stuff so it doesn't we it doesn't even matter yeah we're

[3:21:35] Voice 6: just taking up space in

[3:21:36] Voice 6: that table yeah

[3:21:37] Voice 8: so can you point out which of those sorry those

[3:21:41] Voice 6: are 2020 points 11 12 and 26

[3:21:52] Voice 8: so maybe those

[3:21:54] Voice 7: yeah i

[3:21:55] Voice 8: see them no 11 is all the bylaw enforcement cases

[3:21:58] Voice 8: since that's

[3:22:00] Voice 3: the that's all well

[3:22:06] Voice 8: is it all state of emergency no

[3:22:09] Voice 6: only the state of emergency

[3:22:12] Voice 6: the first four from 2011 and earlier are just out of date applicable and the 2019 one

[3:22:22] Voice 6: is the one about referring to spbr tps to the crd okay water uh integrated water

[3:22:31] Voice 6: branch where we got on response response yeah

[3:22:35] Voice 8: so can can we take these one at a time and just

[3:22:37] Voice 8: mix them or keep them so that because we're jumping around a lot and i'm lost so going

[3:22:44] Voice 8: through these travel tracement travel travel trailer enforcement seems like we want to keep

[3:22:50] Voice 8: that one right now can we just kind of like soft understand these okay um new business

[3:22:58] Voice 8: by law enforcement that's the one you're saying is coveted yeah okay so that's a revoke one because

[3:23:03] Voice 8: it's no longer so what

[3:23:06] Voice 7: motion do we need so the

[3:23:08] Voice 7: motion is on page 141.

[3:23:12] Voice 7: this is the dilemma we have emotions jumping around um so it's

[3:23:21] Voice 8: okay so if you're okay aaron i can go ahead and make the one for the 20 20 26. okay

[3:23:29] Voice 3: that

[3:23:30] Voice 8: the north pender island local trust committee rescind the following standing resolution

[3:23:34] Voice 8: oh you're thinking that we would do it all at once okay i get why you're saying this okay so

[3:23:38] Voice 8: let's so i just need a pen because i don't think i agree with rescinding all of this so

[3:23:45] Voice 8: 20

[3:23:46] Voice 4: 26 okay 26 20 20 0 12 okay

[3:23:52] Voice 7: and 11 this

[3:23:57] Voice 3: is where i want to make sure we're not

[3:23:58] Voice 3: can i just

[3:24:06] Voice 19: interject to the club visits of timing yes

[3:24:09] Voice 8: i know that's why i'm wondering if we just

[3:24:12] Voice 8: want to push all of these

[3:24:12] Voice 6: yeah yeah yeah so just

[3:24:14] Voice 6: maybe just so

[3:24:15] Voice 8: if we defer this to the april

[3:24:17] Voice 8: meeting then we can kind of close more closely at this i think that's the way to do it all right

[3:24:21] Voice 3: fair enough so motion to defer yeah motion

[3:24:26] Voice 8: to defer can we do we have to say it out loud do

[3:24:30] Voice 16: we have to say it out loud or are you guys good enough consensus yeah

[3:24:33] Voice 8: consensus yeah consents

[3:24:36] Voice 16: all righty um so are we done with that full section then okay so local trust committee

[3:24:42] Voice 16: web page we're cool we have the island trust conservancy report for review everybody's fine

[3:24:53] Voice 16: with that um 16.1 um hopefully it has been through these reports quickly i'm not optimistic

[3:25:01] Voice 16: district um may not like lcc request resetting a new uh permit option and that's basically just

[3:25:09] Voice 16: a thumbs up thumbs up or a thumbs down for the concept like this it could be a two or three year

[3:25:16] Voice 16: project um from a crd perspective but they did what basically what the crd director is looking

[3:25:23] Voice 16: for is from the various ltcs is that is this something that you think is worth considering

[3:25:29] Voice 16: or do you think this is a really stupid idea and and it's as both as broad as that and

[3:25:36] Voice 16: then based on that feedback then the crd director would sort of start they say if it's positive

[3:25:46] Voice 16: he'd be talking about his staff who talked about his trust staff and trying to figure

[3:25:49] Voice 16: if there's a road forward that's that's practical and then there's a whole public hearing process

[3:25:54] Voice 16: that's not this this is like the first baby tiny tiny step so it's it's basically is it

[3:26:01] Voice 16: something you like or something you don't like this

[3:26:03] Voice 8: is for a 16.1 let me nail tc okay

[3:26:11] Voice 7: yeah i don't i see what you're saying thoughts are well i think

[3:26:20] Voice 4: it uh i think it makes sense

[3:26:25] Voice 4: to look into it based on um especially if there is an opportunity to

[3:26:38] Voice 4: change the system the way that it is right now with uh with building the issuance of building

[3:26:44] Voice 4: permits and where the money goes compared

[3:26:46] Voice 8: to the work

[3:26:47] Voice 4: that happens here um if it is citing

[3:26:50] Voice 4: in use and it is as simple as um you know it's more of a rubber stamp process on there and

[3:26:57] Voice 4: And based off of the information, I could talk to David Graham up in Denman.

[3:27:12] Voice 4: Denman has it.

[3:27:13] Voice 4: And see what they're experiencing up there.

[3:27:18] Voice 4: It sounds like it's positive.

[3:27:21] Voice 4: I think I've seen an email or two that has gone back and forth and talks about it.

[3:27:28] I

[3:27:30] Voice 4: don't know what the cons are.

[3:27:33] Voice 4: the pros have been thrown out there for you know streamlining and speeding things up and

[3:27:39] Voice 4: well

[3:27:41] Voice 8: i'm a little bit confused why this isn't part of the southern gulf island forum conversations

[3:27:45] Voice 8: because it seems like it's the topic that would naturally land in that space because

[3:27:50] Voice 4: it's crd

[3:27:51] Voice 4: though as opposed to provincial yeah

[3:27:54] Voice 8: but it's crd but the southern gulf island forum no matter what

[3:27:58] Voice 8: what everybody seems to think is not Adam Olson's show.

[3:28:02] Voice 8: It's intentionally, like,

[3:28:03] Voice 8: we're funding it,

[3:28:04] Voice 8: so we have low government coordination.

[3:28:07] Voice 8: So, like, that's what that money and time is intended for,

[3:28:11] Voice 8: is this kind of conversation.

[3:28:15] Voice 16: Realistically, the only reason we came down this track

[3:28:17] Voice 16: is because that's the way the CRD director

[3:28:19] Voice 16: sort of asked for the first input.

[3:28:21] Voice 16: He said, well, go around to the local trust committees,

[3:28:24] Voice 16: sort of get a thumbs up and thumbs down,

[3:28:26] Voice 16: and then based on that, we'll see how to proceed.

[3:28:27] Voice 16: and that might be the logical next step is into that forum well

[3:28:32] Voice 8: i don't yeah so i don't know that

[3:28:34] Voice 8: i can say right now whether i think it's a good idea to totally withdraw a building inspection

[3:28:40] Voice 8: like that seems problematic lots of different ways to me so i

[3:28:44] Voice 4: need to have a bigger conversation

[3:28:45] Voice 8: if that's what this is then the answer is yes if this is like are we supporting

[3:28:49] Voice 8: who is drawing the building

[3:28:50] Voice 4: the answer is no my

[3:28:51] Voice 4: understanding of it is you still have to have

[3:28:54] Voice 4: bc home warranty right yeah

[3:28:56] Voice 8: i don't know enough which

[3:28:57] Voice 4: then causes an inspection anyhow right like

[3:29:03] Voice 4: there's it's just it's it's basically removing one level of inspection yeah

[3:29:07] Voice 8: but i'm just telling you

[3:29:09] Voice 8: i'm not prepared

[3:29:09] Voice 16: it's not hold up your hands and that building inspector goes away next week

[3:29:14] Voice 16: basically this is like saying to the security director this is something we'd like to explore

[3:29:19] Voice 16: or yeah this is sort

[3:29:21] Voice 8: of to have a conversation about it but I don't want our I want to make

[3:29:25] Voice 8: sure that if we as an LTC are communicating that the communication is that we're willing

[3:29:29] Voice 8: to have a conversation about that not that we're supporting it

[3:29:32] Voice 16: which is what's being asked yeah

[3:29:33] Voice 16: okay and literally I don't think that there's a motion required or anything they just wanted

[3:29:38] Voice 16: feedback yeah that's fine

[3:29:39] Voice 8: okay yeah all

[3:29:40] Voice 16: right um next one um options for forest and tree management

[3:29:44] Voice 16: on north pender island yeah

[3:29:47] Voice 8: i feel like we're not going to do this conversation justice right now

[3:29:50] Voice 8: i'm wondering if we do the same thing brad like we can hear a little bit from you but we could also

[3:29:55] Voice 8: just it's important to have this report and community for conversation and we bring back

[3:30:00] Voice 8: and like decision points to next week about what we might want to do about it like so if you want

[3:30:04] Voice 8: to share a little bit in around

[3:30:06] Voice 19: i mean we've spoken um earlier about this a little bit i think

[3:30:11] Voice 19: the primary tool at your disposal right now is the application of development

[3:30:16] Voice 19: potential to review the existing permits you have for uh you know whether they're still effective

[3:30:24] Voice 19: like the raptor nest for example there might be new nests that could be added and then looking

[3:30:32] Voice 19: at you know what a broader suite of DPAs look like if you're targeting forestry or whatever

[3:30:39] Voice 19: values you're targeting based on the coastal Douglas fir or any other options around advocacy

[3:30:49] Voice 19: at the trust council level there was one other option there so it's going to be later in front

[3:30:55] Voice 6: yeah

[3:30:56] Voice 8: advocacy powers yeah

[3:30:59] Voice 19: and i think honestly you're seeking additional bias from i guess

[3:31:03] Voice 19: it's it's been tried over and over every two years at ucf that question comes forward so

[3:31:09] Voice 19: i i think that you will probably even if we go talk to those other levels of government

[3:31:16] Voice 19: you're not going to get very much traction unless you target it from the island's trust

[3:31:21] Voice 19: is different than other local governments and i think that would have to come from trust council

[3:31:27] Voice 8: it doesn't it doesn't there is some ltc related but

[3:31:31] Voice 19: i think in my experience in the provincial

[3:31:34] Voice 19: government realm to get any actual traction it would have to come from the trust body like to

[3:31:40] Voice 19: have for government tax to listen yeah

[3:31:43] Voice 8: so i'm gonna pause us there because i think that like

[3:31:47] Voice 8: Like, right now, I don't want to get into that whole conversation.

[3:31:49] Voice 10: We don't want to.

[3:31:50] Voice 8: But I do think we should take this out into conversation and community

[3:31:55] Voice 8: and, like, have some conversations with people, like, in different ways

[3:32:00] Voice 8: just to see what the interest is in different pathways here.

[3:32:06] Voice 8: I

[3:32:07] Voice 7: think there was one question I had here.

[3:32:14] Voice 7: No, it'll come to me.

[3:32:15] Voice 7: Sorry, I'll have to backtrack it if it comes back to me.

[3:32:18] Voice 7: Keep going.

[3:32:19] Voice 8: one

[3:32:19] Voice 19: okay so it's really just for information yeah

[3:32:22] Voice 8: right now if you

[3:32:23] Voice 19: want this before going back is

[3:32:24] Voice 19: that what i'm hearing

[3:32:25] Voice 8: i would like it to come back into conversation in may or in april or may

[3:32:29] Voice 8: um it's kind of wanted to see what agendas are like overly full or not but um because i think

[3:32:36] Voice 8: if we have some conversations in community we can come back with potentially some ideas of what we

[3:32:40] Voice 8: might want to do so at a minimum i'm like as a trustee i'll probably end up thinking through

[3:32:47] Voice 8: what i want to do like and some communications i might want to write as an individual trustee

[3:32:51] Voice 8: but there may be things we want to do is not be seen around that okay thank you so

[3:32:56] Voice 19: you need any

[3:32:56] Voice 19: direction what i think i'm hearing is that we'll defer we'll bring the same report back and you'll

[3:33:02] Voice 19: have a more in-depth conversation yeah if it's not at the point of

[3:33:05] Voice 19: april for now yeah and if

[3:33:07] Voice 19: when that agenda cover comes out if you want to defer yeah

[3:33:10] Voice 16: thank you um next up we have bylaw

[3:33:14] Voice 16: of notice reporting and policy um so that's basically i guess this is to bring trustees

[3:33:20] Voice 16: up to speed more than anything yeah

[3:33:23] Voice 8: we wanted this included trustee level yeah and really the

[3:33:28] Voice 8: main reason for this is we wanted to make sure too that like yeah this is sorry robert go ahead

[3:33:34] Voice 8: if you want to share anything in about this but was this

[3:33:37] Voice 8: the one that we forwarded from the trust

[3:33:38] Voice 8: council yeah and for me the reason i wanted that is i just wanted to make sure that community

[3:33:43] Voice 8: members see it they don't know what the trust comes with but they might be looking at local ones

[3:33:48] Voice 16: okay um upcoming meetings so this is where we're going to get into our debate i guess

[3:33:55] Voice 16: um so april 28th doesn't work for you no

[3:34:00] Voice 8: and then so

[3:34:05] Voice 8: and 21st doesn't work for you no okay and what is the following meetings the 26th

[3:34:15] Voice 8: yeah it's on two places on my calendar it's really confusing

[3:34:27] Voice 8: um so i guess the other question i had was could we do it on the 5th of may

[3:34:38] Voice 16: no not

[3:34:39] Voice 8: the may meeting the april meeting so

[3:34:41] Voice 16: the 5th of may so

[3:34:44] Voice 8: it's a week later instead of because

[3:34:45] Voice 8: i'm assuming we want to keep going

[3:34:46] Voice 16: that day

[3:34:48] Voice 8: that's

[3:34:52] Voice 16: workable from my end at this point

[3:35:17] Voice 3: the alternative would

[3:35:22] Voice 8: be we could pull it back to a thursday like on the

[3:35:25] Voice 4: 27th thursdays will never

[3:35:27] Voice 4: everywhere yeah so i

[3:35:30] Voice 4: got i'm off

[3:35:32] Voice 16: island but do you have things you have to check

[3:35:36] Voice 4: no i just wouldn't have to decide not to do not to go somewhere on the bed so

[3:35:41] Voice 4: we could

[3:35:41] Voice 4: do a wednesday or wednesdays i

[3:35:44] Voice 19: can't do because i've always got easy on wednesdays

[3:35:46] Voice 19: yeah um your community on friday yeah

[3:35:50] Voice 8: yeah that's the so the challenge with moving it to

[3:35:53] Voice 8: fridays for me is that like often like for work related things it's conference travel

[3:35:57] Voice 8: will happen so there's the occasional time when it lands on our conference so no

[3:36:02] Voice 16: i can i'll make

[3:36:03] Voice 16: the network okay so may the 5th okay do

[3:36:08] Voice 9: we need to we need a motion for that okay okay uh

[3:36:12] Voice 9: just

[3:36:13] Voice 7: speaking

[3:36:16] Voice 8: to the world yeah

[3:36:17] Voice 16: speaking into the world but

[3:36:19] Voice 8: the north pender local trust committee

[3:36:20] Voice 8: um meeting of april 28th 28th be moved to may 5th

[3:36:33] Voice 16: in discussion all question on favor so pat you got that may the 5th

[3:36:45] Voice 3: pat you

[3:36:53] Voice 13: got that motion yes

[3:36:54] Voice 13: i did sorry

[3:36:55] Voice 16: okay no problem okay thank you all right and so

[3:37:00] Voice 4: just like briefly on that do we need to have as many meetings as we have

[3:37:07] Voice 6: um permits

[3:37:09] Voice 7: except

[3:37:10] Voice 6: it's up to you guys how many meetings you have to have a minimum of four i

[3:37:14] Voice 6: think um it just it's it's mainly with applications right at this point april is pretty light in terms

[3:37:25] Voice 6: of applications but we

[3:37:27] Voice 4: did want to bring this groundwater yeah i'm just i'm more more just

[3:37:32] Voice 4: larger discussion as to as to you know is there a way to be more more efficient

[3:37:40] Voice 4: to have less of them just to make it easier for you know if you've only got a block out yeah i

[3:37:46] Voice 8: know so

[3:37:47] Voice 4: many fridays in a year kind of a thing then so

[3:37:51] Voice 8: i would think yes i would love to get

[3:37:52] Voice 8: to a model where we had six meetings a year for every two months on a friday i would love to get

[3:37:57] Voice 8: to that model i think it's

[3:37:58] Voice 8: hard to do that the first year just because there's a bunch of hundreds

[3:38:00] Voice 4: but i

[3:38:01] Voice 8: would love to get to that six meetings a year

[3:38:04] Voice 8: and then like a couple community information

[3:38:06] Voice 8: meetings on weekends and that that's the way we okay

[3:38:09] Voice 16: so we're just going to go in camera

[3:38:16] Voice 16: my assumption is that if you guys you two can bail whenever journey in camera comes

[3:38:22] Voice 16: that's what we can just continue on and finish up the meeting so if

[3:38:26] Voice 9: you need to yeah so so

[3:38:28] Voice 16: so when it gets to to being we're out of here i don't think it's an issue at all

[3:38:32] Voice 16: okay so we need a motion to move in camera

[3:38:39] Voice 8: okay um i move that the meeting be closed to the public in accordance with community

[3:38:44] Voice 8: Charter Part 4, Division 3

[3:38:46] Voice 8: S91AB for the

[3:38:47] Voice 8: purpose of considering adoption of

[3:38:49] Voice 8: in-camera meeting minutes

[3:38:51] Voice 8: dated September 29, 2022

[3:38:53] Voice 8: in the appointment of Advisory Planning

[3:38:55] Voice 8: Commission members, and that the recorder

[3:38:57] Voice 8: and staff attend the meeting as

[3:38:59] Voice 8: available. No, just

[3:39:01] Voice 16: the question, we have

[3:39:03] Voice 16: Warren Damon standing by

[3:39:05] Voice 16: for bylaw.

[3:39:06] Voice 16: I just wanted to add that to the agenda.

[3:39:10] Voice 8: Do we need to say

[3:39:11] Voice 8: that he's staffed?

[3:39:14] Voice 16: yeah but yeah so so we're having a report from file enforcement yeah oh

[3:39:20] Voice 8: okay so we need pat we

[3:39:23] Voice 8: need to add an additional point to considering adoption of in-camera meetings appointment

[3:39:27] Voice 8: advisory committee and consideration of by law enforcement yeah sure

[3:39:31] Voice 13: sorry could you i don't

[3:39:33] Voice 13: have an agenda for the in-camera because it's a secure document no

[3:39:39] Voice 6: it should be on the on the

[3:39:40] Voice 6: regular agenda pat just under the item on the agenda cover you

[3:39:45] Voice 13: just said oh i have okay i'm

[3:39:49] Voice 13: using my template okay so you're going to add enforcement

[3:39:53] Voice 8: and consideration of violent

[3:39:55] Voice 8: enforcement okay

[3:39:57] Voice 16: of course can

[3:39:59] Voice 8: you turn the streaming and the recording on

[3:40:02] Voice 8: yeah

[3:40:03] Voice 16: robin robin sort of in charge of all that stuff or other people

North Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
March 17, 2023 ADOPTED Page 1 of 8 
 
North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Minutes of Regular Meeting 
Date:  
Location:  
March 17, 2023 
Anglican Parish Hall 
4703 Canal Road, RR 1, North Pender Island BC 
 
Members Present: David Maude, Chair 
 Deb Morrison, Trustee 
 Aaron Campbell, Trustee 
  
Staff Present: Robert Kojima, Regional Planning Manager 
 Charly Caproff, Planner 1 
 Brad Smith, Island Planner 
 Pat Todd, Recorder 
  
Attendees: There were approximately eight (8) members of the public in attendance. 
 
1. CALL TO ORDER 
Chair Maude called the meeting to order at 10:31 a.m.  He acknowledged that the meeting was 
being held in traditional territory of the Coast Salish First Nations. 
 
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 
 By general consent, the agenda was adopted as presented. 
 
3. TRUSTEE REPORT 
Trustee Campbell reported on a very busy month.   There were a number of committee 
meetings and discussions and much positive feedback.  He stated the importance in hearing 
issues for/from residents. 
Trustee Morrison spoke of people reaching out, meetings with MLA Adam Olsen, the 
appreciation of letters/communication and the importance of hearing all voices.  When 
speaking/writing to Trustees, it is important to include the rationale regarding issues.   Southern 
Gulf Forum is working to co-ordinate activities. 
 
4. CHAIR'S REPORT 
Chair Maude reported on Trust Council.  All levels of local government are working well together 
and there is increased communication between agencies.  To resolve local issues, it is important 
for all governing levels to work together. 
 
A D O P T E D 

 
North Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
March 17, 2023 ADOPTED Page 2 of 8 
5. ELECTORAL AREA DIRECTOR'S REPORT 
There was a community meeting with Paul Brent, CRD Director of Southern Gulf Islands Electoral 
Area, on March 16,
, 
2023. 
6. TOWN HALL AND QUESTIONS 
Speaker pointed out importance of a respectful place for public as well as the Local Trust 
Committee (LTC) and staff. 
Mick Collins spoke of a good meeting with MLA Adam Olsen.  He stressed the importance of 
communicating the rationale regarding bylaws and proposed changes. 
Regional Planning Manager (RPM) Kojima reviewed the process for rescinding Bylaws to enable 
further discussion and amendments prior to moving forward for adoption. 
Trustee Morrison encouraged everyone to watch the live-stream recording to hear entire 
discussions, as minutes are not verbatim records. 
 
7. COMMUNITY INFORMATION MEETING – None  
 
8. PUBLIC HEARING 
8.1 NP-RZ-2022.1 (Sidney Island Strata Corporation) - Proposed Bylaw No. 232 
8.1.1 Recess for Public Hearing 
   North Pender Local Trust Committee meeting closed at 10:44 a.m. 
8.1.2 Recall to Order 
North Pender Local Trust Committee meeting recalled at 10:53 a.m. 
Minutes under separate cover. 
9. MINUTES 
9.1 Local Trust Committee Minutes Dated January 20, 2023  
The following amendments to the minutes were presented for consideration:  
Town Hall:  fourth speaker (Joyce) – sentence to read:  “...barns and a desire to have 
‘farm’ defined...” 
By general consent, the minutes were adopted as amended. 
9.2 Local Trust Committee Special Meeting Minutes Dated February 10, 2023 
  By general consent, the minutes were adopted. 
9.3 Local Trust Committee Special Meeting Minutes Dated February 25, 2023 
  By general consent, the minutes were adopted. 
9.4 Section 26 Resolutions-without-Meeting Report – None  

 
North Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
March 17, 2023 ADOPTED Page 3 of 8 
9.5 Advisory Planning Commission Minutes – None  
 
10. BUSINESS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES 
10.1 Follow-up Action List Dated March 2023 
  Planner Smith spoke to items 9.2 and 9.3. 
  Discussion regarding Short Term Vacation Rentals (STVR): 
 What is included in information packages for guests/clients  
 Getting feedback from Fire Department:  suggestions as to core items to be included 
 Some STVRs operating as home businesses 
 Adjusting examples for different STVR scenarios 
 
11. DELEGATIONS 
 
12. CORRESPONDENCE 
Correspondence received concerning current applications or projects is posted to the LTC 
webpage. 
There was a question regarding Trustees writing on an issue, such as tree cutting, on whether 
the conversation should be opened to the community, i.e., at the LTC meeting. 
RPM Kojima added that Province has delegated additional tree cutting powers to municipalities 
that are not currently available to LTCs. Planner Smith commented that efforts have been made 
by regional districts for similar powers, but the province has not agreed to this change.  
A need was expressed for conversation across government levels, including the question of 
forested areas. 
Another question arose as to how the LTC is voicing community interests/concerns to other 
government levels. 
12.1 Forestry management concerns – various submissions 
  The trustees discussed the following: 
 Whether the LTC or Trust Council (TC) is responsible 
 An advocacy letter outlining concerns would need to come from the LTC rather than 
staff 
 The need for a co-ordinated conversation with all levels of government and the 
relevant person in government to come into conversation 
 Trustee Morrison offered to draft a letter to be brought to the LTC 
 
13. APPLICATIONS AND REFERRALS 
  RPM Kojima reviewed the application information.   

 
North Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
March 17, 2023 ADOPTED Page 4 of 8 
 
13.1 NP-RZ-2022.1 (Sidney Island Strata Corporation) - Proposed Bylaw No. 232   
   NP-2023-041 
   It was Moved and Seconded, 
that North Pender Island Local Trust Committee Bylaw No 232, cited as “North 
Pender Associated Islands Land Use Bylaw No. 148, 2003, Amendment No. 1, 
2022”, be read a second time. 
 CARRIED 
NP-2023-042 
   It was Moved and Seconded, 
that North Pender Island Local Trust Committee Bylaw No 232, cited as “North 
Pender Associated Islands Land Use Bylaw No. 148, 2003, Amendment No. 1, 
2022”, be read a third time. 
 CARRIED 
NP-2023-043 
   It was Moved and Seconded, 
that North Pender Island Local Trust Committee Bylaw No. 232 be forwarded to 
the Secretary of the Islands Trust for Executive Committee Approval.  
 CARRIED 
13.2 NP-TUP-2022.5 (Sketch)  
Planner Smith reviewed the application for a Temporary Use Permit (TUP).  The request 
is to allow the temporary use of storage containers on the site.  There has been 1 
supportive submission and 4 not in favour.   
The applicant spoke to the application and reviewed the history of the situation.  The 
shipping containers are mostly screened. 
The LTC discussed the following: 
 Potential for setting a precedent 
 The lack of available housing to rent 
 Lack of a future plan for the TUP 
 Neighbours have generally not supported this use on the site 
 Shipping containers have been there for 5 years at this point 
 The structures (containers) would be permitted if there were residence as a primary 
use 
 The possibility of a 1 year TUP with a plan to complete screening was discussed 
 Temporary deferral would allow for the applicant to provide a cease of use plan 
prior to consideration of permit approval. 
NP-2023-044 
   It was Moved and Seconded, 
that the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee defer Temporary Use 
Permit 2022.5 (Sketch) application to the May Local Trust Committee meeting. 
 
CARRIED 
  

 
North Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
March 17, 2023 ADOPTED Page 5 of 8 
NP-2023-045 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee request the applicant to 
submit a cease of use plan to the Local Trust Committee by April 30, 2023. 
 
CARRIED 
 
The meeting recessed for a break at 12:23 pm and reconvened at 12:30 pm. 
 
13.3 NP-TUP-2023.1 (Vermeeren)  
Planner Caproff reviewed the application for a TUP for an STVR, including to permit up 
to 60 days.  There was one response to a notification requesting a vegetative screen or 
fence (the respondent was not an immediate neighbour). 
The applicant informed the LTC that abutting neighbours do not have fencing and, as it 
is a deer trail, fencing is not desired. 
Discussion: 
 Shorter STVR times was to encourage owners to come to the island and be part of 
the community 
 Shorter times also were to discourage commercial operations  
 Guidelines currently state 30 day maximum 
 STVR operating at 60 days before LTC modified guidelines to 30 
 STVR operating since 2019 with no complaints and low occupancy 
 Request to make more availability outside of summer season 
NP-2023-046 
   It was Moved and Seconded, 
that the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee approve issuance of 
Temporary Use Permit NP-TUP-2023.1 (Vermeeren). 
CARRIED 
13.4 NP-TUP-2023.2 (Hepburn)  
 Planner Caproff outlined the application for a STVR TUP renewal, also with up to 60 
days.  The TUP has been in place since 2018 and has had no complaints to date.  There 
have been no submissions from the notice.  
The applicant noted they require an extended stay of 7 days minimum to reduce 
turnover. 
NP-2023-047 
   It was Moved and Seconded, 
that the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee approve issuance of 
Temporary Use Permit NP-TUP-2023.2 (Hepburn). 
CARRIED 
 

 
North Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
March 17, 2023 ADOPTED Page 6 of 8 
14. LOCAL TRUST COMMITTEE PROJECTS 
14.1 North Pender Island Local Trust Committee Draft Fees Bylaw No. 226  
 The LTC discussion was as follows: 
 The desire for “cost recovery” for extraordinary costs 
 Minimizing fees, as raising fees could cause ill feelings within the community 
 People not seeking a permit due to costs until “caught” 
 More accurate reflection of IT work costs for permits 
 Building Permit costs are not shared by the CRD 
 Fees are not covering all costs, such as staff, reports, etc. 
 Increase is basically the cost of inflation 
 Actual costs higher than new proposed fees – just closing the gap 
 Trust Council policy around fees is to recover major portion of costs 
 
NP-2023-048 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee defer consideration 
of Draft Fees Bylaw No. 226 to the November meeting. 
CARRIED 
15. REPORTS 
15.1 Work Program Report  
15.1.1 Active Projects Report Dated March 2023 
   RPM Kojima reviewed the projects report. 
   Discussion: 
 LUB Review - Public Hearing in May  
 Groundwater Project - more community consultation/education regarding 
water 
 Trustees to give consideration of a major project for next fiscal year 
o Housing Project? 
o Review of DPAs? 
 Need to prepare business case for September for next fiscal year 
15.1.2 Future Projects Report Dated March 2023 
   Received for information. 
15.2 Applications Report Dated March 2023 
 Planner Smith reviewed the Applications Report. 
15.3 Trustee and Local Expense Report Dated Jan 2023  
  Received for information. 
  

 
North Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
March 17, 2023 ADOPTED Page 7 of 8 
15.4 Adopted Policies and Standing Resolutions  
15.4.1 Standing Resolutions 
RPM Kojima spoke to report highlighting some Standing Resolutions to be 
rescinded, e.g., those addressing the COVID situation, as they are no longer 
relevant. 
   Summary Table on page 142 of the agenda package. 
   By general consent, this item was deferred to the April meeting.   
15.4.2 Adopted Policies and Standing Resolutions  
   Received for information. 
15.5 Local Trust Committee Webpage 
  Will be updated upon conclusion of meeting. 
15.6 Islands Trust Conservancy Report Dated Feb 2023 
  Received for information. 
 
16. NEW BUSINESS 
16.1 Mayne LTC request re Siting and Use Permit Option 
There was discussion as to whether this is worth considering/exploring.  The item is 
being considered for the Southern Gulf Island forum. 
16.2 Options for forest and tree management on North Pender Island 
Planner Smith reviewed options. Review of DPAs would need to be an LTC priority 
project. Advocacy for additional tree protection regulatory powers best to come 
forward at Trust Council level.  
LTC had subsequent discussion and agreed to review options further at a future 
meeting. 
16.3 Bylaw notice reporting and policy  
  Included in agenda for community information. 
 
17. UPCOMING MEETINGS 
17.1 Next Regular Meeting Scheduled for April 28, 2023 at the Anglican Church Hall, Pender 
Island. 
   NP-2023-049 
   It was Moved and Seconded, 
 that the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee meeting scheduled for April 
28 be rescheduled for May 5, 2023. 
CARRIED 

 
North Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Business Meeting 
March 17, 2023 ADOPTED Page 8 of 8 
18. TOWN HALL – none 
 
19. CLOSED MEETING (Distributed Under Separate Cover) 
19.1 Motion to Close Meeting 
That the meeting be closed to the public in accordance with the Community Charter, 
Part 4, Division 3 s. 90(1)(a)(d) for the purpose of considering: 
 Adoption of In-Camera Meeting Minutes Dated September 29, 2022 
 Appointment of Advisory Planning Commission Members 
AND that the recorder and staff attend the meeting. 
19.2 Recall to Order 
19.3 Rise and Report 
 
20. ADJOURNMENT 
By general consent, the meeting was adjourned at 2:45 p.m. 
 
 
 
 
 
_________________________ 
David Maude, Chair 
 
 
 
Certified Correct: 
 
 
________________________ 
Pat Todd, Recorder