Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee community information meeting, May 17, 2023

[0:02:19] Voice 7: street one's ready to go too yeah

[0:02:21] Voice 5: i started this thing okay great

[0:02:25] Voice 3: well uh thanks uh everybody for

[0:02:30] Voice 3: coming and welcome to this special meeting of the salzburg island local trust committee

[0:02:36] Voice 3: um take a moment to acknowledge that we're uh grateful to be living here on uh

[0:02:43] Voice 3: the land of birth nations uh various coach salish nations in the area and respectful of that

[0:02:51] Voice 3: and um so today is uh this evening i guess is a special meeting in the local trust committee

[0:02:59] Voice 3: specifically to have a town hall session um outside of regular working hours and i'm glad

[0:03:05] Voice 3: to see some folks have come here today and my name is tim peterson i'm the chair of the salt

[0:03:11] Voice 3: spring local trust committee i'm elected on the skidi island and i have the salt spring local

[0:03:17] Voice 3: local trustees here, Amy Harris, Dr. Patrick, and we have staff Rob Pingel and Chris Hutton

[0:03:25] Voice 3: here backing us up, supporting us, and director, CRD director Gary Holman's here as well, and

[0:03:35] Voice 3: glad to see you all here.

[0:03:37] Voice 3: So the format for this evening is basically for the local trust committee to hear from

[0:03:45] Voice 3: from the public with your concerns and short answers,

[0:03:51] Voice 3: if there's short answers available for information purpose

[0:03:54] Voice 3: from the NLTC is fine, but we're mostly here to listen.

[0:03:58] Voice 3: And with that, is there anything trustees want to say

[0:04:04] Voice 3: before we open the floor to the public?

[0:04:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): Well, I hope you can be very casual, very cool.

[0:04:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): We're friends, we're here to dialogue.

[0:04:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I think that's sort of the environment

[0:04:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): that I hope we maintain.

[0:04:18] Voice 5: yeah same here sure

[0:04:21] Voice 3: people have to say great okay well with that i'm going to look for a show of

[0:04:26] Voice 3: hands anyone like to either tell us something or ask us something okay

[0:04:33] Voice 5: go ahead um as you know

[0:04:36] Voice 5: the debate for the ltc membership people all again today went over backwards swearing they

[0:04:47] Voice 5: their allegiance to more workforce housing,

[0:04:49] Voice 5: which would be fine, but I'm wondering what, in effect,

[0:04:55] Voice 5: the trust can do to really facilitate that movement,

[0:05:02] Voice 5: for, in my opinion, sustainability

[0:05:05] Voice 5: at the social and economic dimensions,

[0:05:08] Voice 5: whether it was a number one.

[0:05:11] Voice 5: But I hear policies of tiny homes running into problems

[0:05:18] Voice 5: that might have been relevant 40 years ago no longer is.

[0:05:24] Voice 5: I hear of the problems in financing meadow,

[0:05:28] Voice 5: the new meadow called Meadow Lane

[0:05:31] Voice 5: from where I'm on the board because of the limit.

[0:05:35] Voice 5: It says that any project approved

[0:05:39] Voice 5: by our local trust committee,

[0:05:41] Voice 5: the amount of rent could not exceed 30%

[0:05:44] Voice 5: of the average income, and then where the ending seems

[0:05:49] Voice 1: to differently last.

[0:05:52] Voice 5: But you cannot build today's day and age.

[0:05:58] Voice 5: It's not economically viable.

[0:06:00] Voice 5: That view, that rent package will not support a mortgage

[0:06:05] Voice 5: that was advised enough to build in today's world.

[0:06:08] Voice 5: And I was wondering in particular whether the trust

[0:06:20] Voice 5: I don't know about the 30% rule of what we can do with that for rental, but what we can

[0:06:27] Voice 5: do is get zoning happening that will facilitate workforce ownership housing projects and that's

[0:06:36] Voice 5: all we need to do, we need to do the zoning.

[0:06:38] Voice 5: um you know we can then um with the crd i'm hoping that we'll see how this all plays out

[0:06:46] Voice 1: um we can um

[0:06:47] Voice 1: not the ellen's trust but the crd can be involved in a housing authority and if they can't then

[0:06:54] Voice 1: we'll have a a not-for-profit organization doing that and we'll be following the whistler housing

[0:07:01] Voice 1: authority model we don't reinvent the wheel it's already there um there's money waiting on the

[0:07:07] Voice 1: sidelines to uh to put um in money into these workforce ownership housing projects

[0:07:15] Voice 1: um they just need to know they're going to be able to do it without running into miles and miles of

[0:07:19] Voice 1: red tape um so we need to you know hopefully get the zoning done as quick as we possibly can and

[0:07:28] Voice 1: let them people know that we're open for business well

[0:07:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): i think there's there's there is no one

[0:07:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): one solution i think that the islands trust does does have the authority of density and land use

[0:07:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): zoning and uh and that's a lot um and we should be using all of it uh we are advancing on what's

[0:07:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): called bylaw 530 which is the accessory dwelling units uh the attempt there is for islanders to

[0:07:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): help house islanders and make it easier for uh those that want to be landlords to be able to put

[0:08:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): within an accessory dwelling unit,

[0:08:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): whether it's a secondary suite, a free detached cottage,

[0:08:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): or a suite associated with an accessory building.

[0:08:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): And that's not gonna solve the issues,

[0:08:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): but that will help provide some units.

[0:08:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): We're also looking at Ganges and doing more

[0:08:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): to make sure that Ganges has got the zoning.

[0:08:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): We gotta work with other partners

[0:08:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): to make sure Gansby's has a service for the housing that's in that area.

[0:08:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): But it absolutely makes sense to do more of densifying

[0:08:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): where we already have infrastructure in the islands.

[0:08:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): Rental agreements or housing agreements, sorry, is an interesting question.

[0:08:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): And that's what you're referring to, to the 30%.

[0:08:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): That is correct.

[0:08:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): I was up, we had a housing panel up in Gabriel,

[0:08:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): We had Denman Greens, Galeano Greens, and Paisley Place from Gabriola, all non-for-profit societies trying to build housing.

[0:09:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): And the risk that they, the money, and I'm sure the same with Meadow Lane, is the amount of money they're already invested into the project, and they don't have funding to build it.

[0:09:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): It's probably a lot of money, I'm guessing.

[0:09:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): And that's the same that all non-for-profits are finding.

[0:09:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): We need to find a way to do the housing agreements in a more cooperative manner so that they're fair and keep up to date with the changes that are coming.

[0:09:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): And that's something we're going to have to work on.

[0:09:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): That's something we can work on with CRE and others to do.

[0:09:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): So there's no one solution, but we've got to try it all.

[0:09:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right. Well, that one specifically,

[0:09:48] Voice 5: much of what's gone on in the past has been related to the dirt preaching incrementally.

[0:09:54] Voice 5: But it has not really been very rapid.

[0:09:57] Voice 5: it and uh but in the specific question is my understanding that island trust staff on this

[0:10:04] Voice 5: island uh mandates that uh the amount that meadowbrook and any new facility like metal lane

[0:10:14] Voice 5: could charge uh with the blind by no more than 30 percent of the average income in british columbia

[0:10:22] Voice 5: some people take vancouver islands some people take virginia columbia but um why i think right

[0:10:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): now and i can probably just stop for the definition of affordable housing in the current ocp is

[0:10:38] Voice 5: i'm not going to assist to the agreement in another way typically

[0:10:42] Voice 5: so that housing agreement will be around how that how that rent is measured so in the state it would

[0:10:56] Voice 5: be that outlines explicitly what that definition is that agreement that that rest that goes with

[0:11:05] Voice 5: title typically housing agreements are registered as a part of a zoning process uh and in so doing

[0:11:13] Voice 5: they are also sort of subject to the conditions of the approval so investigating how the agreement

[0:11:19] Voice 5: agreement would also involve investigating the parent network and that type of time so

[0:11:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): it's it's

[0:11:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): something i know they're all forms of housing agreements where you've got a lot of especially

[0:11:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): bc housing money some requires portion of the unit speed market as well so that the that there

[0:11:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): is a way of getting income for the property something i

[0:11:39] Voice 5: would i would appreciate that

[0:11:41] Voice 5: matter being looked at i mean the rules have had to apply

[0:11:45] Voice 1: for 40 years ago uh may not be

[0:11:48] Voice 1: relevant today i deal with the fact that the average

[0:11:51] Voice 5: owner and renter in

[0:11:53] Voice 5: canada is spending

[0:11:55] Voice 5: considerably more than 30 percent of their annual income on housing uh there is this gap between

[0:12:02] Voice 5: what you

[0:12:03] Voice 7: can afford to build

[0:12:05] Voice 5: and

[0:12:06] Voice 7: uh and

[0:12:07] Voice 5: what people

[0:12:08] Voice 7: giving you mortgages will

[0:12:09] Voice 7: affect in terms of the income that will be generated and what's possible

[0:12:13] Voice 5: with that 30

[0:12:15] Voice 5: the senate requirement yeah

[0:12:16] Voice 3: i'll just add to uh you mentioned that bc building code there i think

[0:12:24] Voice 3: earlier on and um there's a lot of disappointment uh i think about the statements recently released

[0:12:32] Voice 3: from the province on the building code specifically in relation to tiny homes uh there

[0:12:37] Voice 3: have been a lot especially on the islands i've heard it lots that uh you know the building code

[0:12:43] Voice 3: it's been an impediment to making tiny homes viable and uh unfortunately the the provinces

[0:12:52] Voice 3: basically said they're not they're not interested in changing that at this point so

[0:12:57] Voice 3: that's unfortunate because that's in the province's lap and i think especially on islands

[0:13:03] Voice 3: that's something a lot of people recognize would have been would have been a useful avenue would

[0:13:07] Voice 5: that apply on tiny homes on wheels

[0:13:09] Voice 3: exactly there's it's difficult that it's the tiny homes and in

[0:13:15] Voice 3: fact the tiny homes on wheels is even harder so

[0:13:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): gary i know crd is doing some work on that

[0:13:23] Voice 5: so um no that's true

[0:13:26] Voice 5: building code as time was a conventionally defined like large consistent building code

[0:13:33] Voice 5: and my understanding i'm not as clear about whether the promise is considering that

[0:13:38] Voice 5: but it is possible to build a home that is tiny that's completely consistent with building code

[0:13:48] Voice 5: you don't put it on the wheels you make sure you've got access to need for it you

[0:13:52] Voice 5: You can have a wood stove in it, it's property and water and plumbing, all that, which understandably adds to the cost.

[0:14:00] Voice 5: But you can build, there's no minimum, as I understand it, size for a dwelling on a solar frame.

[0:14:08] Voice 5: It can be 100 square feet, but you have to be able to consistently put it to code.

[0:14:12] Voice 5: You can build a foundation in a way that you can easily lift it.

[0:14:16] Voice 5: You can post some pads to leak into the foundation.

[0:14:19] Voice 5: You can put it on a cement pad.

[0:14:21] Voice 5: And so it is possible to build a home that's quite small,

[0:14:24] Voice 5: that's not a tiny home that's potentially defined.

[0:14:28] Voice 5: Could I make a comment about the housing agreement issue?

[0:14:31] Voice 5: I think maybe Laura alluded to it,

[0:14:35] Voice 5: but the current funding available from senior governments,

[0:14:40] Voice 5: particularly BC Housing and the regional,

[0:14:42] Voice 5: that's very difficult, also was provided funding

[0:14:45] Voice 5: to support affordable housing,

[0:14:47] Voice 5: barely a problem for your county governments,

[0:14:50] Voice 5: requirements, et cetera, et cetera,

[0:14:51] Voice 5: require a housing agreement in the matter of funding.

[0:14:55] Voice 5: So if you're going to get this funding,

[0:14:57] Voice 5: not only do you get the increased density of the trust,

[0:15:01] Voice 5: but you get this, but you get increased density

[0:15:06] Voice 5: from the trust, you get additional funding from funders.

[0:15:10] Voice 5: But in return for that, you put a housing agreement on it,

[0:15:13] Voice 5: which ensures that, and it's paid at rental.

[0:15:18] Voice 5: There's no funding, as I understand it,

[0:15:20] Voice 5: for ownership, that's on the finance.

[0:15:25] Voice 5: That's the only way you can get senior regional president

[0:15:28] Voice 5: funding is with a housing agreement.

[0:15:31] Voice 5: The regional district housing corporation

[0:15:34] Voice 5: does hold housing experience tax, the trust can hold them as well.

[0:15:38] Voice 5: But the intent is to break the link with the marketplace.

[0:15:42] Voice 5: That there are some that leave.

[0:15:46] Voice 5: I'm one of them.

[0:15:47] Voice 5: If you just keep pumping up market housing,

[0:15:50] Voice 5: the order not you're not really going to resolve the affordability situation in the long term you

[0:15:57] Voice 5: have to create a stock of affordable housing that's permanently delinked from the market

[0:16:02] Voice 5: there are needs as well i'm not saying that the market there is a need for market housing but if

[0:16:08] Voice 5: you're going to get uh funding from senior funding and it's about the trust to decide whether they

[0:16:14] Voice 5: want to require housing improvements in order to provide additional density but that's the rationale

[0:16:19] Voice 5: Okay, thank you.

[0:16:22] Voice 7: Right over here, yeah.

[0:16:25] Voice 7: Yeah, there were

[0:16:27] Voice 7: sorry, there was a lot of information here, but

[0:16:30] Voice 7: following

[0:16:31] Voice 5: up on what Gary was just saying, and what we're talking about

[0:16:36] Voice 5: 30% and 100% sort of thing,

[0:16:40] Voice 5: I did want to ask, does NBL and SLUS have

[0:16:44] Voice 5: or have access to a sort of consistent definition for

[0:16:49] Voice 5: in dollars per month what constitutes affordable housing because coming from

[0:16:55] Voice 5: the perspective of someone who like I make 18 dollars an hour and I'm getting a second job

[0:17:03] Voice 5: where I'll make a little bit more but there's no way in the world at the moment on this island

[0:17:10] Voice 5: that I can afford to live outside of my friend's home. There's no way that my girlfriend

[0:17:18] Voice 5: friend who was 1923 dollars an hour working full time uh is able to live off of her boat um like

[0:17:26] Voice 5: this is a situation where i understand the need for market-grade housing because people you know

[0:17:33] Voice 5: otherwise developers won't have an interest in the building here but like do do we have a

[0:17:40] Voice 5: consistent definition of what actually constitutes affordable housing do we have a plan to make that

[0:17:46] Voice 5: that specifically happen, not just housing in general.

[0:17:48] Voice 5: Because I see a lot of conversation on the island about need more housing, need more housing,

[0:17:54] Voice 5: but it's that affordable element that is critically important.

[0:18:00] Voice 3: Yeah, so my understanding is that affordability is variable based on the community.

[0:18:08] Voice 3: I remember it was earlier in the year looking at the figures of what they figure is affordable in Vancouver,

[0:18:15] Voice 3: and it's pretty shocking um so it's often tied to as as was mentioned earlier as to a percentage of

[0:18:22] Voice 3: income uh because then that helps like there's the community but there's also what you might

[0:18:29] Voice 3: actually

[0:18:30] Voice 7: be able to pay i was at the housing summit in vancouver last

[0:18:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): month and the message

[0:18:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): was pretty clear all of our rules and our tax structures aren't designed at all to meet what

[0:18:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): we're seeing today so we're challenged you know definitions of what is affordable you know and

[0:18:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): all of these questions there are definitions we have them it's it's whatever the 30 percent of

[0:18:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): your income but i kind of have it off the top of my head but it's defined is it realistic is it

[0:19:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): real does it meet what we need on salt spring and that's the conversation we need to have is

[0:19:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): who is our community you are our community what kind of housing do you need and how can we make

[0:19:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): that happen and those look how we're going to be getting into the ocp project in this the next

[0:19:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): those months and i'm hoping that's the conversation that we're having because i you know we you are

[0:19:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): part of our community and we just we have to figure that out and i mean to

[0:19:32] Voice 5: rightly answer that question for me right now you know we're both in a situation where in if

[0:19:39] Voice 5: if our long-term goal at the moment

[0:19:41] Voice 5: is to move off of this island

[0:19:42] Voice 1: and live somewhere else where

[0:19:43] Voice 5: we can afford to live.

[0:19:45] Voice 5: And that is obviously, I think, not desirable.

[0:19:48] Voice 5: I think that that's,

[0:19:49] Voice 5: but that situation with lots of low-income workers here,

[0:19:53] Voice 5: people are, many of our friends and coworkers

[0:19:56] Voice 5: have moved away on that.

[0:19:58] Voice 5: Yeah, and it's,

[0:20:02] Voice 5: so to answer that question,

[0:20:04] Voice 5: if I were to try to live on this island long-term,

[0:20:08] Voice 5: the the only way i can

[0:20:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): do it is if

[0:20:11] Voice 5: there was you know affordable housing where you know

[0:20:16] Voice 5: me like i and my girlfriend for example could live together as roommates for something like

[0:20:21] Voice 5: under two

[0:20:22] Voice 5: thousand dollars a month and have access to at the very least a regular bus

[0:20:27] Voice 5: route that's the thing that we fundamentally would need in order to be able to stay here

[0:20:34] Voice 5: well thank you and i hope that you'll participate in us just and we want you to i'm happy to hear

[0:20:41] Voice 1: the price number that you're seeing um this is what workforce ownership housing is all about

[0:20:47] Voice 1: we want to and it can be done it's done in other jurisdictions tofino couch and whistler

[0:20:53] Voice 1: again we need zoning to facilitate these kind of

[0:20:56] Voice 5: projects there's a proposed one

[0:21:02] Voice 5: that'll be in Ganges that will be completely in

[0:21:05] Voice 1: your price range and you won't be renting

[0:21:07] Voice 1: you'll be able to buy in there there'll be there's a waiting list that will happen with

[0:21:14] Voice 1: this kind of thing but we need more of these projects because clearly there's lots of people

[0:21:17] Voice 1: that will you know fill these spaces but we need a housing authority the analyst

[0:21:22] Voice 1: we can do the zoning other entities are going to do the housing authority we don't have to

[0:21:28] Voice 1: reinvent the wheel it's already been done what we don't need is running into brick walls and having

[0:21:34] Voice 1: red tape coming from governmental organizations um but i'm on your side i want these things to

[0:21:39] Voice 1: happen we can make it happen um

[0:21:42] Voice 7: it's hopefully coming yes i'm

[0:21:50] Voice 5: going to flip to the other side

[0:21:51] Voice 5: and

[0:21:52] Voice 2: um talk about i guess what it is that the island starts doing to take away workforce housing

[0:21:57] Voice 2: in um as one of the i'd say leading providers of workforce housing on this island i've dedicated

[0:22:04] Voice 2: the last 10 years of my life to housing people who are the working class here people making 20

[0:22:09] Voice 2: to 25 an hour and these are fines that i've got this year um and they're absolutely ridiculous

[0:22:19] Voice 2: i mean my farm stand is too close to the road um i built my farm stand without a permit it should

[0:22:25] Voice 2: should be in a seven and a half meter setback it's it's complete bullying um these fines are

[0:22:30] Voice 2: ones that every single like i mean you can drive from here to my place and i can find 15 farm

[0:22:35] Voice 2: stands closer to the road um than mine and so uh there's there's 20 people that live with me that

[0:22:43] Voice 2: are going to be looking for houses soon because i can't continue to receive this week after week

[0:22:50] Voice 2: week after week and continue to be bullied and so it's one thing to talk about like what can we do

[0:22:55] Voice 2: on the zoning side and then the absolute runaway bylaw enforcement to pick on those that perhaps

[0:23:03] Voice 2: they don't like and I mean we're all aware of so many so many bylaw contraventions on this island

[0:23:12] Voice 2: I mean who has two cars and an uncovered carport because if you do you're breaking the land use

[0:23:16] Voice 2: bylaw um so i could probably say 90 of people on this island break that one um and so and this is

[0:23:25] Voice 2: in spite of you guys passing a motion to actually ask bylaw to not um enforce on non-conforming

[0:23:31] Voice 2: housing and so they're going after my farm stand they're going after a trailer that's too close to

[0:23:35] Voice 2: aggressive bylaw interpretations and just straight up bullying and i guess my i'm not sure if i have

[0:23:43] Voice 2: a question but my i'm just curious like i see what's happening on denman where these bylaw

[0:23:49] Voice 2: issues are being enforced and not only do we have to look at building these projects and stuff but

[0:23:56] Voice 2: the situation on the ground is that people are being i mean is the island parking lot in attention

[0:24:01] Voice 2: uh an acceptable place to live because that's where we'll be setting up we're kicked off of

[0:24:08] Voice 2: my property and i have no problem bringing all the trailers and bringing them down to the parking lot

[0:24:13] Voice 2: there and we can set up camp and when we're asked to leave we'll go to our private property again

[0:24:18] Voice 2: where we're getting grass so i'm really glad you're here

[0:24:21] Voice 1: greg thank you very much and i hope

[0:24:24] Voice 1: we can what i'd like to propose we add this to the agenda for tomorrow's meeting if possible

[0:24:30] Voice 1: and we can speak to this in an in-camera session.

[0:24:35] Voice 5: Very important.

[0:24:36] Voice 5: You do a great thing.

[0:24:38] Voice 5: You're in a community.

[0:24:40] Voice 5: I don't think we need to speak

[0:24:42] Voice 5: any more at this point in here.

[0:24:44] Voice 5: I

[0:24:45] Voice 1: would like to speak.

[0:24:46] Voice 1: You can, that's fine.

[0:24:47] Voice 1: I don't, you know,

[0:24:49] Voice 1: clearly something that has to be done.

[0:24:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): Greg, you represent how that people need options

[0:24:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): to live differently than they did in the past.

[0:24:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): every rule in our book is about single family home large lot that's what it was built on

[0:25:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): and that was probably what the vision was in 1972 but we are in 2023 and we know people want to live

[0:25:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): differently are going to live differently and people like yourself are going to be ahead of

[0:25:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): where the rules are because you're responding to how people want to live and i've been to your

[0:25:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): place and i've seen the community in the families that you build um so we have to change our rules

[0:25:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): and we have to begin even faster at changing our rules because people are going to be

[0:25:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): changing but the climate hasn't changes going forward so we have to be more proactive and stop

[0:25:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): being reactive and and have far more options for people to live well

[0:25:59] Voice 7: i'll add to that i actually

[0:26:00] Voice 7: think we're going to need to be reactive tomorrow to

[0:26:04] Voice 5: what greg has to say um what he's supposed to

[0:26:07] Voice 5: do yeah

[0:26:08] Voice 2: i really hope

[0:26:08] Voice 5: we should be in this

[0:26:09] Voice 2: it's one thing to be ahead of the like i agree the

[0:26:12] Voice 2: language bylaws are quite archaic because one of the things that they are on the about is an awful

[0:26:17] Voice 2: boarding house a boarding house is the term that maybe we use in the boardings when people were

[0:26:23] Voice 2: we're moving out of rural areas into their manufacturing in Chicago or

[0:26:27] Voice 2: something like that. That's what we think of in the boarding house.

[0:26:30] Voice 2: So anyway, the boarding house is a restricted land use.

[0:26:32] Voice 2: And so when I've had the conversation with bylaw enforcement, it's like,

[0:26:36] Voice 2: okay, so what do you want? Well, you can't rent a room to anybody,

[0:26:38] Voice 2: zero people.

[0:26:40] Voice 2: I can't rent one room in my seven bedroom house to one person.

[0:26:45] Voice 2: I was like, well, what about my children? Are they allowed to live there?

[0:26:48] Voice 2: Well, yeah, that's not a commercial arrangement.

[0:26:49] Voice 2: arrangement well what if i offered a place to free for someone else well no there's a commercial

[0:26:54] Voice 2: agreement there they're doing something like if they're including your house that's commercial

[0:26:58] Voice 2: and it's just like overreaching harassing energy that i find so exhausting that it's like

[0:27:07] Voice 2: surely the intention of that bylaw was never to preclude me from having anyone live in my house

[0:27:16] Voice 2: and you can interpret these things in the way you want it's like is it a trailer on wheels or is it

[0:27:21] Voice 2: a tiny home is it a building is it a farm stand is it these they're all interpreted and right now

[0:27:27] Voice 2: like i mean i empathize with you guys i know you've both been to my place you've both seen

[0:27:31] Voice 2: what's happening there and i and i empathize with the position you're in because i see

[0:27:36] Voice 2: this office and these guys that are absolutely bullying the people who need to live on this

[0:27:42] Voice 2: island like it's it's not only out of desire to live differently it's out of absolute necessity

[0:27:47] Voice 2: to live differently there are people in tents in cars i mean the bylaw of support for risk here

[0:27:53] Voice 2: he's like well i was like you want me to take out the woman and child in that trailer he's like well

[0:27:56] Voice 2: i was like they were living in a car before i was like can they live in the car here he's like no

[0:28:00] Voice 2: not unless you're going for a campground i was like well what if they drive the car down on the

[0:28:03] Voice 2: road all that's not our

[0:28:05] Voice 5: jurisdiction but anyways i

[0:28:11] Voice 2: understand you i understand i'm coming here to

[0:28:14] Voice 2: to raise them because i feel like you guys are asking but i don't start asking me to raise these

[0:28:19] Voice 2: publicly now because it's like i gotta stand up for people the right to live at the end of the

[0:28:25] Voice 2: day the only thing that we do illegal is that they're people and not animals if they were

[0:28:31] Voice 2: animals animals can live in a barn they can live in a trailer they can shit in the field

[0:28:38] Voice 2: and if they're humans they can't they can't shower in a barn they can't sleep in a barn

[0:28:42] Voice 2: you can't eat, you can't pitch in the barn, you can't shower, you can't use comforters,

[0:28:45] Voice 2: you can't do that. So we're feeding animals better than we are kids now.

[0:28:50] Voice 5: Thank you. Thank you for that. In the back.

[0:28:55] Voice 5: I'm curious as to how you allocate, you know, your fourth-minute

[0:29:07] Voice 5: staff, which is pretty small in the beginning, but I would think the trust can provide guidance,

[0:29:13] Voice 5: you know you elected officials as to what the priorities are or enforcement i'm wondering is

[0:29:19] Voice 5: there who sets those reports because clearly these guys are going out here and enforcing rules that

[0:29:25] Voice 5: i don't see are with the citation about as opposed to other areas where citations may be more appropriate

[0:29:33] Voice 5: yeah thank you staff comment on that i will set priorities uh yeah sure

[0:29:40] Voice 5: or it's hard to buy that of course i don't really know that we're set up for that

[0:29:51] Voice 5: audio but in my experience what um

[0:30:00] Voice 5: respond um primarily to um this complaint driven but not a lot of proactive um enforcing

[0:30:09] Voice 5: building on the island primarily the response to call those uh we're gonna do the follow-up

[0:30:14] Voice 5: we're gonna attend um we have other interactions with you note those on the site um and then

[0:30:30] Voice 5: Our important issues are coming from the neighbor complaints or someone in the community.

[0:30:36] Voice 5: But there's no crime organization or guidance as to which complaint, as I was just saying,

[0:30:42] to pursue in anybody, in a complaint, anybody who filed a lawsuit, whether it's credible,

[0:30:48] necessary, important, or otherwise, someone in charge

[0:30:51] Voice 5: is going to decide.

[0:30:52] Voice 5: So is there a fine organization scheme, or it's just, I got 25 complaints, and I'm going

[0:30:58] Voice 5: to do they would need to order i'm not just curious primarily there's a procedure that

[0:31:05] Voice 5: allows us to follow up and receive a complaint they will admit the site possible there and

[0:31:13] Voice 5: potentially follow up if they they can confirm there's a contravention going on

[0:31:17] Voice 5: is there a person who speaks to the fact that you know who made the complaint

[0:31:26] Voice 7: I do know that we

[0:31:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): trust counsel

[0:31:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): which is the body of 26

[0:31:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): which is above us

[0:31:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): did request that the

[0:31:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): ombudsman office

[0:31:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): do a review of our

[0:31:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): enforcement process

[0:31:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): and that's underway so I don't know when you'll see that

[0:31:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): but those type of issues

[0:31:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): were raised at the trust counsel table

[0:31:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): and we'll see what the

[0:31:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): ombudsman says

[0:31:52] Voice 3: yeah and then

[0:31:53] Voice 3: And there are certainly cases of some local trust committee, local trust areas, giving further direction to file enforcement.

[0:32:06] Voice 3: In some cases, there's been proactive enforcement on short-term vacation rentals directed by individual local trust committees.

[0:32:20] Voice 3: So that's there. There can be more direction given. I'm not entirely clear on it.

[0:32:26] Voice 3: Don't you know, when it comes to individual cases, I think unless it's actually getting to a litigation stage that the that the bylaw enforcement arm and the decision makers are kind of at an arm's length relationship on that.

[0:32:48] Voice 3: and so that's um it does it hampers the ability and i can see the good reasons why to hamper the

[0:32:58] Voice 3: ability of the local elected officials to to essentially interfere in the process of the

[0:33:05] Voice 3: bylaw enforcement and at the same time there are so whatever is done has to be blanket and broad

[0:33:13] Voice 3: um it can't be about an individual case i hope that helps yeah in the back there

[0:33:19] Voice 5: are they harassing the short-term rentals as much as they're crafting um right and

[0:33:26] Voice 5: like the airbnbs is that is that the same sort of dialogue like because airbnbs are not they're not

[0:33:37] Voice 5: We

[0:33:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): have 117 open files on, but did they just

[0:33:42] Voice 5: continue to get harassed?

[0:33:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): I'm I'm I'm saying harassment. I hope no one's being harassed, but

[0:33:52] Voice 5: it's getting harassed. So I'm just wondering how, how was the short-term rental?

[0:33:56] Voice 5: Well, there

[0:33:57] Voice 1: is proactive enforcement on

[0:33:59] Voice 5: the short-term. So without complaint driven.

[0:34:02] Voice 1: I have a quick question for everybody, what do people here think about proactive bylaw

[0:34:11] Voice 1: enforcement on short-term vacation, that's where nobody's complaining but the bylaws

[0:34:15] Voice 5: going around.

[0:34:16] Voice 5: Are people in favor of that?

[0:34:19] Voice 5: In favor of proactive enforcement?

[0:34:23] Voice 5: Well, I mean, it's taking away, like, we, like, no one can get, I personally.

[0:34:27] Voice 1: No, I don't

[0:34:28] Voice 5: think the charity can see it.

[0:34:29] Voice 5: I think it's on the equity.

[0:34:31] Voice 5: Yeah.

[0:34:31] Voice 7: I

[0:34:31] Voice 5: need to find staff for work, and all of my staff are struggling.

[0:34:35] Voice 5: It's just our place so hard.

[0:34:36] Voice 5: Like, I have to leave the island, but I want to stay.

[0:34:39] Voice 5: Yeah.

[0:34:40] Voice 7: And I

[0:34:40] Voice 5: see young people, and all of us are making this community what it is, and we want

[0:34:45] Voice 5: to make something great of it.

[0:34:47] Voice 5: And we can't, because we can't house anyone.

[0:34:49] Voice 1: Yeah, but there was enough housing.

[0:34:51] Voice 5: would

[0:34:51] Voice 1: you still feel the same way about collective

[0:34:53] Voice 5: um enforcement against um

[0:34:55] Voice 5: i think affordable housing is exactly what we need but it's the it's the people buying the the

[0:35:02] Voice 5: like the radical properties to exactly the same amount as profit

[0:35:08] Voice 5: where you know teachers are living in tennis and you know um i think i can work seven days a week

[0:35:21] Voice 5: so yeah they're on the chains yeah yeah

[0:35:24] Voice 3: feel free to come on in you're not interrupting

[0:35:27] Voice 3: yeah yeah okay does anyone else have a comment or a question i know into the middle back row there

[0:35:34] Voice 3: yes again i'm actually

[0:35:37] Voice 5: now retired uh pension which is less than 12 an hour by working full

[0:35:45] Voice 5: time and other than myself with the functional vote i threw the automatic desolation down in

[0:35:50] Voice 5: the summer but now i'm seeing in the upcoming lcc campaign people talk about seriously restricting

[0:35:57] Voice 5: living on those mornings and there's a large community of people out there and i'm very

[0:36:02] Voice 5: inept and all that stuff and i know a couple of easy ferry workers uh 130 uh sub manager in the

[0:36:10] Voice 5: local business and a few other people i went to the hospital and there's no other way we've been

[0:36:16] Voice 5: for it so if bottles came through and i report back before south of my community for 33 years

[0:36:22] Voice 5: there's no way that even that there's no way to find anything to rent even a bed and a shared

[0:36:29] Voice 5: room in a house and still have anything left to enjoy like this yeah well i think you should be

[0:36:34] Voice 5: alone in the heart and the violence in states now it's illegal but if you're looking at someone's

[0:36:42] Voice 5: proposed bylaws the proposed bylaws to legalize make it illegal massive fees

[0:36:48] Voice 1: and massive fines

[0:36:50] Voice 1: well

[0:36:50] Voice 5: but that's that isn't

[0:36:52] Voice 1: from us okay there but people are talking about that in the community for

[0:36:56] Voice 1: sure um and what they're saying is that there will be a clause in there is what i've heard

[0:37:01] Voice 1: that they're calling it a hardship clause if you can't afford it you won't be paying it as long as

[0:37:06] Voice 1: your sewage is going into the water and you're not throwing your garbage into the water then you're

[0:37:11] Voice 1: completely going to be legal to live in there yeah

[0:37:14] Voice 3: justin patrick has something down here

[0:37:18] Voice 3: there

[0:37:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): is no bylaw for this this trust committee there

[0:37:25] Voice 3: is a citizen

[0:37:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): group that's working on

[0:37:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): something but that's not legislation that's not this this body has not asked for um for

[0:37:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): regulation of the harbor this

[0:37:36] Voice 5: is just community members speaking they're throwing this stuff

[0:37:39] Voice 5: yeah i'm looking at one of your one of one of your co-owners there uh

[0:37:44] Voice 5: yeah it's

[0:37:44] Voice 1: really drastically restricted

[0:37:49] Voice 1: but i think that you know they're they're talking about a clean and safe harbor who doesn't want to

[0:37:54] Voice 1: clean it right now and

[0:37:55] Voice 5: the way that they're doing it but aren't doing it for example they're not

[0:37:58] Voice 5: going to use the only old guns that needs to be expanded right yeah but if

[0:38:04] Voice 5: you look at what they

[0:38:05] Voice 5: probably another dose they they they're done with this for each yeah and if you're on that offer you

[0:38:11] Voice 5: can go to that offer if you're on them paying where you have a portable park you can take

[0:38:17] Voice 5: there or they'll come in the boat that they're five bucks that's

[0:38:20] Voice 1: great we need that yeah i'm

[0:38:25] Voice 1: with you i think the community members that you're speaking of are also bad right well

[0:38:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): let's just say

[0:38:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): it like i said at this time we have no pro checked on the books yeah to consider that um i know we

[0:38:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): did there i know that there was bylaw enforcement on the water there's that that and but they were

[0:38:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): out there because of complaints of commercial use on the water not the little wards the the

[0:38:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): the do not enforce rule that we have applies to the look boards uh so i can you know assure you

[0:38:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): that we're not well we don't have it it doesn't exist on our work schedule i

[0:39:03] Voice 1: think we need more

[0:39:04] Voice 1: liveables clearly and have it done you know cleanly and i have facilities for garbage disposal

[0:39:12] Voice 1: all of the above what a great thing it could be right this is a huge opportunity we have you know

[0:39:17] Voice 1: there's clearly a housing problem it's a cheaper way for people to house and you know people might

[0:39:21] Voice 1: enjoy that lifestyle i

[0:39:22] Voice 5: mean i have a fully functional home with running water and i realize

[0:39:26] Voice 1: As you've lived

[0:39:26] Voice 5: out there for years, right?

[0:39:28] Voice 5: A long time.

[0:39:29] Voice 5: I realized that you should be able to do that.

[0:39:36] Voice 5: I'm with you.

[0:39:38] Voice 5: I just wanted to add on to what Mark was saying.

[0:39:41] Voice 5: Well, my situation is not exactly the same as Mark's,

[0:39:45] Voice 5: but I mean, and I know that we can't exactly discuss

[0:39:49] Voice 5: the proposed bylaw because I did see your name referenced in it,

[0:39:58] Voice 5: And I was wondering if you

[0:39:58] Voice 2: could speak to your involvement in such a project.

[0:40:02] Voice 2: I also wanted to say that having read the proposed bylaw, if

[0:40:09] Voice 5: that rule were in force,

[0:40:11] Voice 5: it would make it completely impossible for me personally to live on the water.

[0:40:15] Voice 5: For example, one of the proposed requirements would be for insurance for my boat.

[0:40:27] boat, and boat

[0:40:28] Voice 2: insurance companies actually don't offer insurance to demand a boat.

[0:40:33] Voice 2: They're too big of a liability, and it depends on how they're built, really, in many ways,

[0:40:39] Voice 2: and they just won't take the risk.

[0:40:40] Voice 2: So

[0:40:41] Voice 5: I can't get insurance, you know?

[0:40:43] Voice 5: That's not something that's payable for me.

[0:40:44] Voice 5: And, like...

[0:40:47] Voice 5: You can't really rebuild your engine, right?

[0:40:48] Voice 5: Yeah,

[0:40:49] Voice 2: my boat is not able to move under its own power, but it is very well-attached, and

[0:40:55] Voice 2: and I spend a lot of money on making sure that it's not going to just break free, you know.

[0:41:00] Voice 2: And I have accomplished some pilots,

[0:41:02] Voice 5: and I maintain myself, and I don't make a mess,

[0:41:04] Voice 5: and I just see these initiatives that are being discussed in our community,

[0:41:09] Voice 5: and it makes me really want to travel

[0:41:11] Voice 1: from my way of life.

[0:41:13] Voice 1: Well, I don't see how you can be targeted in this.

[0:41:15] Voice 1: You know, and again, there's nothing in front of us.

[0:41:17] Voice 1: We don't have a bylaw. We're not involved.

[0:41:19] Voice 1: I have spoken with community members that are concerned and want to do something about the harbor.

[0:41:25] Voice 1: yeah i've heard it for many people in the community like i think the vast majority of people

[0:41:29] Voice 1: that i speak to are concerned because there are some issues out there but for people like yourself

[0:41:33] Voice 1: who are out there we that you we don't want to throw people don't want to throw you out

[0:41:38] Voice 1: of the harbor

[0:41:39] Voice 5: you know we want to make it better so um you know it's clearly going to be taken

[0:41:44] Voice 5: into consideration i

[0:41:46] Voice 2: hear i hear what you're saying and i i just i worry that some of the

[0:41:50] Voice 2: ways that are being proposed to make it better will actually drive out the people that are like

[0:41:56] Voice 2: me

[0:41:56] Voice 1: well i'm sure there will be some robust conversation if this does come through some

[0:42:01] Voice 1: kind of fruition of actually being talked about and your voice will be heard and

[0:42:05] Voice 5: and um you know

[0:42:08] Voice 5: you know we'll still be considered well right one of the things that i had read

[0:42:14] Voice 2: and again we

[0:42:15] Voice 2: apparently i didn't know that this was not an official thing so this is the information i'm

[0:42:20] Voice 2: working with but i read that the relevant

[0:42:24] Voice 5: parties were consulted and the relevant parties lifted

[0:42:27] Voice 5: were the plane company the landowners on um grace point and the sailing club and i think that the

[0:42:37] Voice 5: most relevant parties involved are the people who live on the water so and i i would never

[0:42:43] Voice 5: it's my first time hearing about it

[0:42:46] Voice 5: a couple days ago

[0:42:47] Voice 5: I'm not sure about that part

[0:42:50] Voice 5: you are

[0:42:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): it is

[0:42:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): absolutely correct

[0:42:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): your fears and concerns and I know when I was

[0:42:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): asked to meet with this group working on the proposal

[0:43:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): I said at the end of the day these are people

[0:43:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): yeah

[0:43:02] Voice 7: these

[0:43:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): aren't boats, these are people

[0:43:06] Voice 7: and they're home

[0:43:09] I need my boat

[0:43:12] I need my game

[0:43:14] I need my life

[0:43:16] live my life

[0:43:17] Voice 5: i just want to be part of the community

[0:43:19] Voice 7: you know the

[0:43:21] Voice 5: community as best they

[0:43:23] Voice 5: can but the community wants you and

[0:43:25] Voice 1: needs you there too so yeah you know though i think the

[0:43:28] Voice 1: issue that people are concerned with in the harbor there's some whole pilot boats that have been just

[0:43:33] Voice 1: left and nobody's living in them and that's a big concern some are sinking there's some dock

[0:43:39] Voice 1: yeah that are out there that have industrial things on them that are fairly compromised and

[0:43:45] Voice 1: and reports of stuff being thrown overboard.

[0:43:48] Voice 1: There are some people,

[0:43:50] Voice 1: which I see living in horrible conditions

[0:43:53] Voice 1: where it's a gutted out sailboat,

[0:43:55] Voice 1: they might be having some difficulties within society.

[0:44:01] Voice 1: And it's moldy and wet and damp, no heat.

[0:44:08] Voice 1: So humans shouldn't have to do that.

[0:44:10] Voice 1: I think that's where people are worried about, right?

[0:44:12] Voice 1: They wanna help these people.

[0:44:13] Voice 1: i

[0:44:14] Voice 5: think though that for a lot of these people the alternative to that would be to end up in

[0:44:21] Voice 5: the already overcrowded shelter and i i think that it's not necessarily the correct option

[0:44:29] Voice 5: to put these people out onto the street because you don't think that their living situation

[0:44:34] Voice 5: is up to

[0:44:35] Voice 2: standard well just

[0:44:37] Voice 1: for their own safety and if there's and and hell but who knows like

[0:44:41] Voice 1: if the community gets behind this anything can happen maybe um they get help with their boat

[0:44:48] Voice 1: actually that

[0:44:49] Voice 5: would be nice but i that doesn't seem to be the direction that they can like well

[0:44:54] Voice 1: no direction haven't really been taking it there's some community members that are voicing that thing

[0:44:58] Voice 1: it's clear there's going to be a robust conversation

[0:45:01] Voice 5: about the whole thing and at the

[0:45:02] Voice 5: end of the day like lord says yeah there's people we're talking about and that you know that goes

[0:45:07] Voice 5: for anything with the animals trust when it comes to

[0:45:11] Voice 3: i just i just reiterate what uh trustee patrick

[0:45:14] Voice 3: said a little earlier which is um you know this proposed bylaw out there is is uh some citizens

[0:45:21] Voice 3: working on a proposal but certainly haven't brought up to this committee yet uh but i think

[0:45:27] Voice 3: in in terms of where we're at on that uh more importantly is is we have uh limited resources

[0:45:35] Voice 3: resources available to to this committee and we've spent some time uh trying to assess and prioritize

[0:45:42] Voice 3: what the work that we're wanting to do and and that proposed bylaw by these citizens did not

[0:45:51] Voice 3: factor in that so I I I hope that gives you some uh sense of

[0:45:57] Voice 3: security that that's that that isn't

[0:45:59] Voice 3: the high on our list at this point i think i saw director holman yeah thanks uh i wonder if they

[0:46:05] Voice 5: comment um i think it's going to continue the idea of secure tanker for liveaboards in the harbor

[0:46:15] Voice 5: i realize that the senate's coaching was down in their spot

[0:46:19] Voice 5: Yeah, local government, we're here to help, but the starting point is that's Jamie's sentence.

[0:46:29] Voice 5: You're right then.

[0:46:31] Voice 5: Living boards are failing.

[0:46:32] Voice 5: So you have absolutely no security at all.

[0:46:36] Voice 5: If you move to a situation where there's appropriate management, and yes, there's some rules and

[0:46:43] Voice 5: patch with that insurance around that i don't understand is that yeah that's

[0:46:49] Voice 5: right that's

[0:46:50] Voice 5: well

[0:46:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): it's not a people use there's funny words that we use in planning language here

[0:46:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): what

[0:46:56] Voice 5: i'm saying is you need to understand that's the status quo and so the status quo is

[0:47:05] Voice 5: you're not legal i haven't and in my view you're even more vulnerable there are submissions out

[0:47:10] Voice 5: they're also deciding people do the right thing and and you obviously are there's some folks

[0:47:17] Voice 5: right thing so i think it's worth pursuing um and it'll get to the local trust committee

[0:47:25] Voice 5: you've got other priorities but you know what could be viewed as a housing initiative so we'll

[0:47:29] Voice 5: be able to be able to see what you want move something forward and i've already told the

[0:47:34] Voice 5: components and uh jamie i can't remember i don't think i've talked to the trustees

[0:47:40] Voice 5: it's worth uh pursuing i realize it does raise concerns so it just means you have to stay on top

[0:47:46] Voice 5: of it yeah if the committee decides to do it but i want to ask the question too at one point

[0:47:53] Voice 5: energy's arena when we were negotiating with the province to get the right-of-way secured

[0:47:59] Voice 5: across the marina east uh the ganges marina asked let's hear them send a letter to the trust history

[0:48:09] Voice 5: for either of your time this is back particularly george and peter the ganges marina athletes have

[0:48:18] Voice 5: sent a letter to the trust uh a syria official letter saying uh it might be interesting to

[0:48:25] Voice 5: who pursued little boards at marina uh so my question is whether i remember marina's the one

[0:48:31] Voice 5: that uh carver house or energy's marina has ever uh received the trust above that that would be

[0:48:38] Voice 5: another little more situation that would be even more i mean you could actually talk about the

[0:48:42] Voice 5: sewer um first of all we have to say again i haven't been approached but with that sounds

[0:48:51] Voice 5: you can even i see somebody else says yeah and i was just going to

[0:48:55] Voice 3: check in with uh

[0:48:56] Voice 3: with staff if you're aware of any anything like director holland's talking about

[0:49:02] Voice 3: wow in the

[0:49:04] Voice 5: marinas i don't think it was okay we

[0:49:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): did during the pandemic we did make an exception

[0:49:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): um we allowed it in them in the marinas as a allowed use under certain conditions because

[0:49:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): because we had nurses at the hospital

[0:49:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): that worked with the boards,

[0:49:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): they were working really crazy shifts.

[0:49:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): And so we made that relaxation during the pandemic

[0:49:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): for the marinas.

[0:49:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): And it was in the OCP.

[0:49:33] Voice 5: It was part of the development in 2007 OCP.

[0:49:38] Voice 5: Sorry.

[0:49:39] Voice 5: It was part of the OCP development in 2007.

[0:49:43] Voice 5: Just never, you know, we didn't get to in the shift.

[0:49:47] Voice 5: In the back there again?

[0:49:48] yeah i'm very much involved with that direct bylaw

[0:49:52] Voice 5: um that's not the bylaw that's they're

[0:49:55] Voice 5: going to submit for the student trust in uh june for their consideration it's not in the bylaw it's

[0:50:03] a very early edition it's not what it says the clean

[0:50:08] Voice 5: and safe operation does not want to take

[0:50:14] Voice 5: for the boards out in the harbor period that is not the goal and we do want as everybody

[0:50:20] Voice 5: big ones don't want garbage in the harbor we don't want you to wait in the harbor

[0:50:27] Voice 5: so we want to work as a community to make sure that the city right now is as it's been

[0:50:34] Voice 5: to discuss land use, Iowa 355, Iowa 3.19.1, absolutely prohibit us from living in the

[0:50:42] harbor, with certain exceptions, like commercial fishing, not even stays in the harbor, watch

[0:50:49] the

[0:50:49] Voice 5: boats down there, security.

[0:50:52] Voice 5: So we want to give you legal status of living in the harbor, but we want to have it balanced,

[0:50:58] Voice 5: and if you're legally allowed to live in a harbor, you have to comply with certain rules

[0:51:09] Voice 5: And we want to be able to have what we call affordable housing in the harbor, because

[0:51:16] Voice 5: and I'm talking, you know, you suggested some numbers, it's going to be the bay, but we

[0:51:24] Voice 5: want to be able to use, want to be able to give permits so people can live in the harbor,

[0:51:30] Voice 5: get anger in the harbor but we want to have some beef and i'm not talking two thousand dollars a

[0:51:36] Voice 5: month we're talking much much much less than that 250

[0:51:39] Voice 5: dollars a month similarly according to the

[0:51:41] Voice 5: proposed five you can't even help but get insurance and

[0:51:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): i don't know what it actually

[0:51:45] Voice 5: we shouldn't

[0:51:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): be talking about your initiative

[0:52:00] Voice 5: it's only going to succeed

[0:52:05] Voice 5: if we're all together.

[0:52:09] Voice 5: Yeah, that's my bottom line.

[0:52:10] Voice 5: Yeah, and it's why

[0:52:11] Voice 5: it's not in the area because it has to be

[0:52:14] Voice 5: this information that is circulating

[0:52:15] Voice 5: that is citing a riot or

[0:52:18] Voice 5: is indicating...

[0:52:21] Voice 5: Circulating that this is

[0:52:22] Voice 5: a bylaw that the Trump

[0:52:24] Voice 5: is considering or is...

[0:52:25] Voice 5: So...

[0:52:27] Voice 5: Yeah.

[0:52:30] Voice 5: That is coming from people who

[0:52:32] Voice 5: are behind the bylaw. I'm not saying it's you,

[0:52:34] Voice 5: but there are people who

[0:52:35] Voice 5: have been suggesting that uh daniel mora have been involved in this

[0:52:40] Voice 5: in some way or have endorsed it in some way that's sort of speaking about true so okay

[0:52:45] Voice 3: and i'd like

[0:52:46] Voice 3: us just to i'd like us to to move on to because this this hypothetical that this going by law

[0:52:54] Voice 3: isn't before this trust committee uh and if and when it shows up then that's fine we can talk

[0:53:00] Voice 3: but at this point we have spent some time on it but i think what's more valuable for the local

[0:53:05] Voice 3: trust committee is actually our our business and what is our business um so uh and we did hear some

[0:53:14] Voice 3: had some good questions and said good comments before and and i would totally i mean i'd

[0:53:20] Voice 3: encourage any of you that know that you kind of made some connection here to have that conversation

[0:53:25] Voice 3: outside of this venue but it's that's not an issue at this point before the local trust committee so

[0:53:32] Voice 3: i'd like us to move on to another subject yes

[0:53:39] Voice 7: um

[0:53:51] Voice 5: received a letter from you uh jared um and he's a member of the angie's

[0:53:57] Voice 5: at the rich planning task force so it's very welcome to get that for the last week

[0:54:01] Voice 5: um in this letter um the second paragraph advises encouraging you all to apply for

[0:54:13] Voice 5: a position on the advisory planning for new members in may 2023 now i i have been considering

[0:54:22] Voice 5: I realize it's a big undertaking, and I haven't talked to all of my fellow PANAS members,

[0:54:33] Voice 5: chat board members, but I was surprised earlier when I found the deadline for applications

[0:54:39] Voice 5: in May 8th.

[0:54:41] Voice 5: So that's not mentioned in this letter, and I've been waiting to talk to a former member

[0:54:47] Voice 5: of the ABC to ask what was that like, so I couldn't even count the rides when I should

[0:54:55] Voice 5: do this point of information you may want to consider that people were actually being

[0:55:01] Voice 5: encouraged to apply when you've given enough information to know that they missed that one

[0:55:08] Voice 5: um second item uh it is uh page three on island tomorrow um and it's on the hills without a

[0:55:16] Voice 5: program project uh there is a practitioner's workshop degree report and this is uh something

[0:55:23] Voice 5: that the trust is supportive of Angela.

[0:55:27] Voice 5: I attended that workshop, as did Trustee Patrick.

[0:55:31] Voice 5: The

[0:55:32] Voice 7: two strongest takeaways from the workshop were,

[0:55:41] Voice 7: I've already quoted this,

[0:55:43] Voice 5: so I'm not belushing it anymore,

[0:55:47] Voice 5: Laura's summary was great, and Robert Seaton,

[0:55:50] Voice 5: who was a fire-smart practitioner, was fantastic.

[0:55:55] Voice 5: and i spoke to the host afterwards and i said that was amazing i spoke to

[0:56:02] Voice 5: another individual in the province who's well known as a fire smart expert

[0:56:07] Voice 5: a great program and said gee you know robert was great so yeah robert's great so

[0:56:14] Voice 5: i was really surprised to read this uh b3 report because i know tim when i have

[0:56:22] Voice 5: I was chairing this, but I know this is a topic of great interest and concern for our LTC members, because we have almost wildfire threat.

[0:56:38] Voice 5: So reading the report, I was, I would say, probably disappointed because much of what was discussed in the workshop did not make it to the summit.

[0:56:52] Voice 5: The only mention of Robert was that he spoke about it, and there were various recommendations made that were definitely not discussed at all.

[0:57:08] Voice 5: uh in a dividend um there was a number of comments that uh virus market only

[0:57:18] Voice 5: addresses residential or you know our homes um but that uh management of forest areas is outside

[0:57:27] Voice 5: the scope of the program and just before this meeting i didn't do a lot of homework but i said

[0:57:32] Voice 5: I said, well, that's wrong.

[0:57:33] Voice 5: I mean, three forests.

[0:57:35] Voice 5: It makes sense for what's wrong.

[0:57:37] Voice 5: I'm not always right, but I had a hunch.

[0:57:40] Voice 5: So I looked just quickly at the web search

[0:57:42] Voice 5: and reported the Chronicle of 2001.

[0:57:46] Voice 5: FireSmart Forest Management provides practical approaches.

[0:57:49] Voice 5: FireSmart Forest Management provides practical approaches

[0:57:53] Voice 5: aimed at achieving sustainable forest management

[0:57:55] Voice 5: in fire-dominated ecosystems like we all live in.

[0:58:00] Voice 5: It's objective is to use fourth management practices, site growth, re-jamming, sand tanking,

[0:58:06] Voice 5: harvesting wind systems, block layer design, road construction, etc.

[0:58:10] Voice 5: Now proactive and planned management to reduce both the area burned by undesirable water

[0:58:15] Voice 5: and the rhythm associated with the use of the required fire.

[0:58:18] Voice 5: I would note the aerial meadows, something that is certainly on the list that you need

[0:58:23] Voice 5: to consider in the practice on Tumble Island, which starts at Turnip.

[0:58:29] Voice 5: It requires smart forest management bills on the primary reason why forestry agencies in Canada were created, and which were then propped.

[0:58:40] Voice 5: So, I'm doing this, you're thinking, not because I'm concerned that the LTC doesn't have this as a top concern, that it's not an issue.

[0:58:53] Voice 5: is on here it is a significant concern we've had many discussions

[0:58:59] Voice 5: but what we've accomplished importantly with trust council money is

[0:59:08] nonsense and that can be really proper

[0:59:10] Voice 5: a little bit better protection of our forest with respect to the wildfires

[0:59:18] Voice 5: it's biggest risk to my house since i can do wildfire thank you thank you thank you thank you

[0:59:25] Voice 5: that's rough training to me too and i hope we can get some sort of wildfire management's you know

[0:59:34] Voice 5: plan and play sooner than later regarding all of you know the public forest especially

[0:59:41] Voice 7: and

[0:59:43] Voice 7: on your job with you well i

[0:59:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): know the report that's in the agenda package requires recommends

[0:59:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): that the coastal douglas for project be ended it should have

[0:59:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): uh you can't see my notes for

[0:59:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): the other meeting

[1:00:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): There was missing a little bit of information.

[1:00:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): Its project itself is ending from the Coastal Douglas Fir,

[1:00:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): but the wildfire hazard risk reduction component of it

[1:00:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): is in the Ossetian Land Use By-law project that's continuing.

[1:00:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): So that

[1:00:15] Voice 7: should have been made clear.

[1:00:18] Voice 7: Thank you for that.

[1:00:20] Voice 7: Any other questions or comments?

[1:00:23] Voice 7: Yes?

[1:00:24] Voice 7: Just to ask about

[1:00:27] Voice 5: something we were talking about

[1:00:28] Voice 5: at the very beginning of the meeting,

[1:00:29] Voice 5: um there was a lot of discussion uh regarding the housing issue uh about um tiny homes um

[1:00:38] Voice 5: and i that kind of ties into um a larger issue which is that definitely tiny homes if we can

[1:00:47] Voice 5: get more tiny homes and more uh sorry specifically the thing that i wanted

[1:00:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): to circle back to was um

[1:00:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): i don't remember what you called it but people having uh homes or uh additional rental properties

[1:00:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): on... Accessory dwelling units.

[1:01:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yes, indeed.

[1:01:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): One of the...

[1:01:05] Voice 5: That is, I think,

[1:01:07] Voice 5: on the surface of Cambodia,

[1:01:09] Voice 5: one of the problems that we have

[1:01:11] Voice 5: is with that sort of

[1:01:12] Voice 5: increased density

[1:01:15] Voice 5: compared to simple family housing,

[1:01:17] Voice 5: but it's very wide, it's sparse

[1:01:19] Voice 5: increased density, right?

[1:01:20] Voice 5: And one of the big issues we have

[1:01:23] Voice 5: that ties into housing on this island

[1:01:25] Voice 5: is transit.

[1:01:26] Voice 5: And in fact, that is ironically one of the issues in getting here today is that this meeting starts at five and there isn't really a bot that comes at a reasonable time to get here.

[1:01:40] Voice 5: So, you know, we came here on the bus and ended up waiting for

[1:01:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): an hour and a half before the meeting started out in the sun.

[1:01:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): But that's just sort of an anecdote

[1:01:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): tying to the fact that the transit

[1:01:49] Voice 5: system on this island

[1:01:50] Voice 5: is, in my opinion, grossly underdeveloped

[1:01:55] Voice 5: compared to the needs of the population.

[1:01:59] Voice 5: And frankly, I don't know what capacity

[1:02:02] Voice 5: the Islands Trust has at any to amend that

[1:02:05] Voice 5: or to do anything about that.

[1:02:07] Voice 5: But are there any ideas about dealing

[1:02:12] Voice 5: with the public transit issue?

[1:02:14] Voice 5: the

[1:02:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): accessory dwelling unit project that's up that's out there is like i said is not being

[1:02:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): billed as a solution but it's not

[1:02:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): it really is legalizing what's already happening people that

[1:02:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): have cottages or secondary suites already in their homes this gives them a path to make it legal

[1:02:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): because not only are short-term vacation rentals illegal so is you're letting your cottage for

[1:02:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): full-time residential use it's ridiculous so let's make full-time residential use legal so at least

[1:02:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): we have that option there are people on this island that are willing to be landlords and we

[1:02:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): want to make a path forward for those those people you don't

[1:02:52] Voice 1: want to be a

[1:02:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): landlord don't be a landlord

[1:02:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): um it's when we focus and densify using terrible words that uh planning language sorry sorry

[1:03:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): Sorry, planners, I mean, you had

[1:03:06] Voice 1: to go to

[1:03:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): school for it.

[1:03:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): But that would be along like Ganges Village

[1:03:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): in areas where we already have transportation.

[1:03:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I'm not a transportation expert,

[1:03:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): that's the CRD area,

[1:03:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): but usually when density is put somewhere,

[1:03:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): the transportation follows.

[1:03:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): So if there's more demand,

[1:03:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): more demand generally follows.

[1:03:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): And so that's sort of the planning 101 geek side of it.

[1:03:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): it um and and so that's where you know where we'll be having conversations with the ocp is how can we

[1:03:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): do that how can we how can we make sure that we're directing growth in a particular area so that you

[1:03:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): have more options for transit

[1:03:46] Voice 3: and i see uh director holman wants to speak on the on the

[1:03:52] Voice 3: transit part yeah

[1:03:54] Voice 5: it is very difficult for transit right because populations are so

[1:04:00] Voice 5: disperse and sulfur is every disperse 265 numbers of rows so i know they have transit service and

[1:04:09] Voice 5: even on the most frequent route which is this one in every few hours and you can visit it is

[1:04:15] Voice 5: safe to meet the ferry schedule a little bit longer term uh there are going to be uh two

[1:04:23] Voice 5: Street Fairies Surveillance, Chris Broughton, 237, and when that happens,

[1:04:33] Voice 5: BC Fairies is going to move Quincy down to Fulbright during peak periods.

[1:04:39] Voice 5: So during peak periods at Fulbright, we're going to do fairies.

[1:04:42] Voice 5: What it means is that we can sync our transit service to that more frequent bus service,

[1:04:49] Voice 5: so that you know that's longer terms it'll in the meantime though the only way we can improve

[1:04:55] Voice 5: franklin it's basically taking the share cost between the province and basically local factors

[1:05:02] Voice 5: so we have to and have overtime we're actually going to do something just like last year

[1:05:08] Voice 5: we moved down to the venice road area uh and the peak periods uh people point broke down

[1:05:15] Voice 5: of the park was added some gradually we're expanding but returns are pretty slim because

[1:05:21] Voice 5: the further up you go the less sparse your population is so that that's our challenge

[1:05:30] Voice 5: it's going to be practical to to the point of the link between land use and transit i

[1:05:38] Voice 5: agree with you quite strongly the point you made before is that housing affordability and

[1:05:44] Voice 5: transit by the city the study taught the winter transportation guy did a study with the crb

[1:05:52] Voice 5: pointing out that affordability isn't just about your your housing it's also about new transportation

[1:05:59] Voice 5: and if you've been and that's the reason why uh sort of uh best practice land use planning is to

[1:06:09] Voice 5: trying to locate your uh increase in identity in areas that are certified transit so and in

[1:06:17] Voice 5: fact for transit uh the province is not even further but transit is dividing the property

[1:06:24] Voice 5: on the transit line and building affordable housing so there is a strong point like in

[1:06:29] Voice 5: certain 530 is that link isn't as strong as it

[1:06:34] Voice 5: could be so if

[1:06:35] Voice 7: you're legalizing

[1:06:40] Voice 5: that will ever have a transit or an early swim which has curfews and shelter also in

[1:06:46] Voice 5: those areas that are at higher risk for air-based fires and uh severe weather events and all of that

[1:06:53] Voice 5: so i've made this point before not i've made a big deal of it but i have talked to lower above it and

[1:06:58] Voice 5: trust planners

[1:07:00] Voice 5: in Miami by about 530

[1:07:03] Voice 5: if we were to

[1:07:04] Voice 5: focus it more on

[1:07:06] Voice 5: Asian villages

[1:07:08] Voice 5: Fulton Harbor

[1:07:09] Voice 5: does not have any suites

[1:07:12] Voice 5: that's a perfect place for

[1:07:14] Voice 5: suites, it's got water

[1:07:17] Voice 5: it's got ferry

[1:07:18] Voice 5: it's got transit

[1:07:19] Voice 5: it's got some market services there

[1:07:22] Voice 5: that's a perfect spot to

[1:07:24] Voice 5: Henry's Daphne

[1:07:25] Voice 5: Henry's Daphne at the end of

[1:07:28] Voice 5: of winding roads that will never have transit there.

[1:07:32] Voice 5: Well,

[1:07:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): I also pointed out that Gary should have the building

[1:07:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): permits no longer given to a single-family home that's

[1:07:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): not on the transportation route.

[1:07:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): So we can't, we have to, the gentle density

[1:07:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): with the accessory dwelling units recognizes that we're

[1:07:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): looking for landlords.

[1:07:53] Voice 3: I'd like to speak to that.

[1:07:54] Voice 3: And I just want to point out too that, of course,

[1:07:57] Voice 3: that you know the accessory dwelling units in viola 530 are not envisioned as the solution

[1:08:04] Voice 3: but a part of a number of things that local trust committees considering to to address that thank

[1:08:11] Voice 3: you sure yeah if

[1:08:13] Voice 1: somebody's you know going to rent a place so at the end of visitable point road

[1:08:17] Voice 1: i would um think that they would probably take it into consideration if there isn't a bus service

[1:08:22] Voice 1: there and they're gonna you know they'll have a caulk right

[1:08:25] Voice 1: that's the goal of the vehicle the

[1:08:27] Voice 1: other point i would like to make is if we increase density in areas where there isn't a bus service

[1:08:31] Voice 1: like a broad uh you know a large um uh you know added density then the bus service will then

[1:08:40] Voice 1: go there it's not like the bus service is never going to go somewhere where there's a demand for

[1:08:46] Voice 5: it so

[1:08:47] Voice 5: that's something to also consider um i'll leave it there is there i can you know on the

[1:08:54] Voice 5: subject of bacteria i hope i'm at the right meeting maybe another case but i have a few

[1:09:00] Voice 5: questions maybe technical questions for the planners and speak to the question of density and

[1:09:05] Voice 5: and uh the let me see where my notes here that the um that first of all and i don't know where

[1:09:13] Voice 5: it is but i think the first question is where we're at in the discussion with respect to the

[1:09:23] Voice 5: implementation of 530 and whether or not it's still at a phase where there's a consideration

[1:09:29] Voice 5: given to to review or amendments to the language that exists you know with respect to the

[1:09:36] Voice 5: the floor space ratios that they've been designing for the homes on lots of a certain size, you know, first of all, my immediate reaction to that is that they eliminate any potential for family housing that's a small space of 600 square foot.

[1:09:58] Voice 5: um and whether or not the had there been consideration to calculate the course ratio against the

[1:10:05] Voice 5: uh this the existing principal uh dwelling so as to um uh allow for a slightly larger

[1:10:16] Voice 5: secondary unit because right now the current zone the way that i understand it it's more

[1:10:20] Voice 5: or if you build 1,500 square feet onto your home,

[1:10:24] Voice 5: then it gets to build a

[1:10:28] Voice 5: of auxiliary or accessory type building.

[1:10:32] Voice 5: So there's a couple of things that came to mind.

[1:10:36] Voice 5: I mean, one was that whether or not this silo

[1:10:39] Voice 5: was being very considered in contrast to other jurisdictions

[1:10:43] Voice 5: where there has been considerable evolution

[1:10:46] Voice 5: of this conversation primarily in the Lower Greenland

[1:10:49] Voice 5: and some of the those districts um and also so there was the course the question of subdivision

[1:10:58] Voice 5: and the potential uh subdivision in where edu is added to the property and i know that that's kind

[1:11:04] Voice 5: of a future consideration but it certainly would provide an opportunity for more affordable

[1:11:11] Voice 5: ownership housing because our lives very often themselves are very substantial the last thing

[1:11:18] Voice 5: which kind of speaks to the idea of building housing and speeding so i think the question

[1:11:22] Voice 5: i believe that you know i live in a subdivision that was developed in the 70s the homes are

[1:11:31] Voice 5: the vast majority of homes are very substantial in size um in um at least for an entry break

[1:11:41] can who is just 800 square feet um

[1:11:45] Voice 5: being luxury so i would ask the question if at one through the

[1:11:51] Voice 5: years of evolution of that particular property that it was it may have house six or eight family

[1:11:58] Voice 5: members they could be multi-generational family members and um and uh by when the bylaw allows for

[1:12:09] Voice 5: or the unit does not allow for a third, third or fourth unit

[1:12:16] Voice 5: in the principal unit, the principal home,

[1:12:22] Voice 5: are we not missing a very important opportunity

[1:12:25] Voice 5: to reuse, repurpose, and recycle our existing house and shop

[1:12:30] Voice 5: and densifying in areas where activity already exists?

[1:12:33] Voice 5: I poked her down the other day, going by something off

[1:12:38] Voice 5: the edge of strength.

[1:12:39] Voice 5: and I said, you brought a beautiful home,

[1:12:41] Voice 5: because I was a peddler,

[1:12:43] and I said, you

[1:12:45] Voice 5: have a large family.

[1:12:47] Voice 5: They said, oh, no, it's just me.

[1:12:49] Voice 5: And we got chatting, what do you do?

[1:12:51] Voice 5: I'm a carpenter, because I'm a retired carpenter,

[1:12:53] Voice 5: but I can't retire, because everybody wants to work on the house,

[1:12:57] Voice 5: because there's no carpenters on the island.

[1:13:01] Voice 5: And I looked at this house,

[1:13:02] Voice 5: and it was easily 4,000 square feet,

[1:13:05] Voice 5: but I'm not talking about one person.

[1:13:09] Voice 5: i think it doesn't seem logical that that that can't be divided in a way that could divide

[1:13:16] Voice 5: and it was originally designed so i guess i'll leave it at that and whatnot yarns you know

[1:13:24] Voice 5: that zoning allowing for much greater density in those already existing areas where we've got

[1:13:33] Voice 5: If God wills, we've all got to get to a certain subject.

[1:13:36] Voice 5: It's going to be great.

[1:13:38] Voice 5: And it was practical.

[1:13:40] Voice 5: Thank you.

[1:13:41] Voice 5: Dr.

[1:13:41] Voice 5: Tucker?

[1:13:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): I thought 530 was intended to be low-hanging fruit.

[1:13:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): It was focused on where we already have cottages and suites that just need to be legalized.

[1:13:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): So it was meant to be kind of something quick.

[1:13:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): That was the purpose of it.

[1:13:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): What you're raising is we had some earlier conversations.

[1:14:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): We recognize people want to live differently than they did before and that our rules drive those 4,000 square foot houses on single family lots and people don't want to live that way.

[1:14:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): We're going to be doing a walk through the official community plan.

[1:14:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): plan. And I like what they did in the main island. They have graduated based on lot size,

[1:14:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): they have a maximum floor area, and you're allowed to divide that maximum floor area

[1:14:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): how you would like. On the smaller lots, it's two. On the bigger lots, I think it's three.

[1:14:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): And so you can do two or three and what size you wish to do. Divide that floor area like

[1:14:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): how you would like to um so we we need to find more flexible ways to recognize that people

[1:14:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): want to live differently um and that this big single family home thing that we seem to be

[1:14:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): protecting is is you know really going to history books yeah

[1:15:00] Voice 5: and it does speak to the question of

[1:15:02] Voice 5: community and water because i noticed that they wouldn't be allowed whether it's just that this

[1:15:08] Voice 5: This is something that I'm not well-versed in,

[1:15:10] but when that property was developed,

[1:15:14] it was developed in a way that it was quite easily housed.

[1:15:18] It's eight

[1:15:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): people and you have one person.

[1:15:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): Exactly.

[1:15:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): Our rules are so, you know, we have kitchens defining everything.

[1:15:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): Is that really what it is?

[1:15:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I hope in this project that we're going to be doing that,

[1:15:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): we really look at that.

[1:15:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): It's like, what is a unit of impact,

[1:15:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): rather than how many kitchens you have.

[1:15:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): People live differently and what is it we're concerned about?

[1:15:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): We're concerned about the amount of water,

[1:15:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): the amount of impact that use creates.

[1:15:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): Well, maybe we should be defining that

[1:15:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): rather than trying to tell you how to live.

[1:15:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): So occupancy limits could

[1:15:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): be a consideration.

[1:15:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): Eventually, no, those are interesting things.

[1:15:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): We should look at all those things

[1:16:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): and I would encourage you to-

[1:16:01] Trustee Patrick (probable): Are there occupancy limits by the way?

[1:16:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): I doubt it.

[1:16:07] Voice 5: If you have a 2,000-square-foot house on a hundred hills,

[1:16:12] Voice 5: you could have done anything about it.

[1:16:15] Voice 5: Seven houses living in that house.

[1:16:19] Voice 5: Yeah, I don't see why you couldn't.

[1:16:22] Voice 5: And if we had a definition of family, which often,

[1:16:25] Voice 5: we didn't know so well, I'm sorry,

[1:16:27] Voice 5: catching you without a doubt on my hands,

[1:16:29] Voice 5: but typically we get the term single-family home, right?

[1:16:34] Voice 5: But then there are people who don't need

[1:16:36] Voice 5: the user definition then typically five five adults not really addressing minors both types

[1:16:45] Voice 5: of things so um and let's say um in fact i can't unless there's something to follow up and find

[1:16:52] Voice 5: a location and how it's almost a septic uh department because it's based on expected

[1:17:13] Voice 7: I would

[1:17:15] Voice 5: help would improve that and that's often a challenge in the padded suites that

[1:17:21] Voice 5: that would be adding an additional suite involved in the bathroom and that raises the question

[1:17:32] Voice 5: that has

[1:17:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): to be addressed it's so like i said we we need to be able to build some flexibility into

[1:17:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): into that and um how how they can how it gets defined but it's the ultimate impact for us is

[1:17:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): septic systems is the big one there

[1:17:49] Voice 5: are many ways around that water you thought

[1:17:52] Voice 5: gray water recycling the vote but it's conflicting toilets yeah many things that can be done could

[1:17:59] Voice 5: to be in specified models that can reduce water use

[1:18:03] Voice 5: without impacting people's quality of life.

[1:18:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I think that's where,

[1:18:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): I think ultimate flexibility is where

[1:18:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): that should be your choice, how to make that work.

[1:18:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): And like I said, we have more of an impact focused system

[1:18:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): so that

[1:18:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): we build flexibility into it.

[1:18:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yes.

[1:18:20] Voice 5: Then just following up on that,

[1:18:22] Voice 5: when we're talking about impact versus arbitrary rules,

[1:18:26] Voice 5: like I have often said when we're talking about this,

[1:18:30] Voice 5: this because water use is such a big um sort of or at least it's seen as a big um barrier to

[1:18:37] Voice 5: additional occupancy i've often said that like i would for example be okay with my home having a

[1:18:44] Voice 5: like limited water

[1:18:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): ration on a daily basis in the summer if that meant that more people could

[1:18:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): live

[1:18:50] Voice 5: on the island you know what i mean like like i think if the the barrier really is water use or

[1:18:57] Voice 5: or septic use or whatever it is, I think it's important that we should try to set up rules

[1:19:05] Voice 5: that limit the water use without limiting the population.

[1:19:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yeah, well, right now, water use is quite an inequitable.

[1:19:14] Voice 5: Just to hear.

[1:19:15] Voice 5: Yes, thanks.

[1:19:15] Voice 5: Yeah, you know, Rick points.

[1:19:18] Voice 5: We have lots of water here.

[1:19:21] Voice 5: And, you know, it's important that people conserve their water, especially in times

[1:19:26] Voice 5: times of the drier season, but we need to start looking at water storage, you know,

[1:19:34] Voice 1: on a large scale at our water utilities, and as well as, you know, making rain catchments

[1:19:42] Voice 1: a much more commonplace type of thing. I think we can get around the water issues that you're

[1:19:47] Voice 1: saying, toilets and great water systems and these types of things, and

[1:19:53] Voice 5: so, you know,

[1:19:54] Voice 5: of the technologies there. We don't have a water storage. We have a storage machine, basically.

[1:20:03] Voice 5: So my Israeli friends told me that Ontario has no fresh water, like water. They don't have any

[1:20:11] Voice 5: potable water. It's all de-validation and very modern water processes. So it's an interesting

[1:20:21] Voice 5: contrast. It

[1:20:22] Voice 7: is, yeah. We've got so much

[1:20:23] Voice 5: water here, we're fighting it half the heat of the

[1:20:25] Voice 1: you

[1:20:25] Voice 5: know and so and we thought we do see a group you know groups and ngos using it

[1:20:31] Voice 5: disingenuously in my opinion to keep things from having great technologies out there we can do this

[1:20:41] Voice 5: yeah go ahead uh yeah so i'm so glad to be in a different space i've never been in here i don't

[1:20:49] Voice 5: think i think it's great to bounce around first of all because then we get to experience all these

[1:20:54] Voice 5: different places that

[1:20:55] Voice 5: are loved and community based and cared for and all the different arts

[1:20:59] Voice 5: that i would have seen some specifically taking that across for you um and um my question is in

[1:21:06] Voice 5: relation to the housing accelerator fund and how committed uh local trust committee is to

[1:21:17] Voice 5: um like we need we need you because of

[1:21:21] Voice 5: this you know so when i hear every kind of thing coming

[1:21:27] Voice 5: up it's like i'm seeing the need for more resources to be able to build those kind of cohesive groups

[1:21:35] Voice 5: that can kind of help us all flow together and function together all the services and land use

[1:21:40] Voice 5: so how we

[1:21:42] Voice 5: so I just see that

[1:21:44] Voice 5: you know it's like I just know

[1:21:45] Voice 5: it's such a great move for us all

[1:21:47] Voice 5: and I'm wondering how committed or

[1:21:50] Voice 5: where you guys are at with that

[1:21:51] Voice 5: as we could

[1:21:53] Voice 5: be in parallel with

[1:21:57] Voice 5: well I guess I can ask

[1:21:58] Voice 5: I'm looking over at staff to see if

[1:22:00] Voice 5: there are reports

[1:22:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): coming to us

[1:22:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): yeah

[1:22:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): I hope

[1:22:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): we're going to hear more about it tomorrow

[1:22:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): and I hope we pursue it in partnership.

[1:22:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): That's my expectation or hope that we do.

[1:22:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): Can we get it?

[1:22:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): Who knows, but it's worth going for.

[1:22:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): I wish I didn't leave any money on the table right now.

[1:22:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): No, absolutely not.

[1:22:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): I think it just

[1:22:28] Voice 5: incentivizes us

[1:22:29] Voice 5: in such a great way to collaborate together.

[1:22:33] Voice 5: And honestly, it puts us like the last of the CRD

[1:22:36] Voice 5: and the needs assessment is done actually

[1:22:38] Voice 5: in the nick of time actually so that it's within the last couple years or it's april 2020 was the

[1:22:45] Voice 5: final date so we are having each other and yeah so it's good enough to go into the application

[1:22:51] Voice 5: so i really encouraged on it and i'm here i just to vocalize that and um

[1:23:03] Voice 5: yeah and just also that i just see so many so much of the interviewing that needs to happen

[1:23:08] Voice 5: And I also really respect the trust as holding it separate as far as for that ecological,

[1:23:16] Voice 5: but I'm also really encouraging here that the Connected Communities Grant became prioritized

[1:23:22] Voice 5: as well, because that's all intersects with how we can move forward.

[1:23:28] Voice 5: So I'd be interested to find out more also about how that's going to unfold.

[1:23:34] Voice 7: And

[1:23:34] Voice 5: something about that there.

[1:23:38] It's not unfortunate that the trust can apply, but I feel it's unfortunate that the regional district

[1:23:44] Voice 5: cannot.

[1:23:45] Voice 5: It has to be the venue's authority that applies.

[1:23:48] Voice 5: If the regional district could apply, we have

[1:23:51] Voice 5: seven, six or seven actual housing projects that we can support related to the structure.

[1:23:59] Voice 5: But because it's the trust applying, I don't know if you can weave that in.

[1:24:10] Voice 5: I don't

[1:24:11] Voice 5: know if it's possible to fund the actual housing project, but we're willing

[1:24:19] Voice 5: to play the role when the trust feels the appropriate.

[1:24:23] Voice 5: In my view, the region could be applying the actual project.

[1:24:29] Voice 5: So maybe that can still happen through the trust.

[1:24:46] Voice 5: but I think I think that yeah because it is it's serviced and ladies planning and usually I mean

[1:24:58] Voice 5: that's just the thing we're different or weird we're unique so um using that to our advantage

[1:25:04] Voice 5: right now requires um you know collaborative response yeah so you guys are going to hear

[1:25:10] Voice 5: more because the plan is not going to decide if they can do it or it can be it's already been

[1:25:14] Voice 5: hooked up it's already hooked up and the plan is they're going to give a look for another one

[1:25:22] Voice 5: So we don't even get it.

[1:25:24] Voice 5: Yeah, we're

[1:25:24] Voice 7: not getting it.

[1:25:26] Voice 5: He's holding tight.

[1:25:30] Voice 5: .

[1:25:34] Voice 5: .

[1:25:35] Voice 5: .

[1:25:48] Voice 7: .

[1:26:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): we're asking good questions yesterday so i'm hoping i'm hoping hoping that we're still

[1:26:09] Voice 5: still. Yeah.

[1:26:13] Voice 5: Okay. All right.

[1:26:20] Voice 5: So it's in a closed meeting tomorrow or is

[1:26:29] Voice 5: that? No, it'll be at our

[1:26:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): I think

[1:26:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): we're going to be looking at our OCP and sort of through that lens and we need to be going

[1:26:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): for every you know grant system that there is to help leverage you know help design this program

[1:26:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): to leverage the money that's out there today yeah because

[1:26:58] Voice 5: that's what it is it wouldn't necessarily

[1:27:00] Voice 5: everything enough to fund full projects and we know that but what it can do is help us become

[1:27:06] Voice 5: more mobilized so that we can actually go and access the larger funds that we can all uh gather

[1:27:11] Voice 5: from cmhc and figure out how to support our local uh nonprofits that are you know moving on new

[1:27:18] Voice 5: housing projects just you know understanding that there's land that's been acquired and

[1:27:23] Voice 5: other organizations so how we as a community kind of really make sure that um there's not a lot of

[1:27:30] Voice 5: um uh just as we'll meet a lot of barriers and then just to speak on barriers but i'm just

[1:27:39] Voice 5: wondering um if you could elaborate more on so i know that catherine's are a lot but say for

[1:27:44] Voice 5: instance hypothetically if there was like a you know piece of parkland that could be um utilized

[1:27:52] Voice 5: us for three years three to five years while we build right because i'm trying to think about

[1:28:00] Voice 5: while we build right because building is going to take a while we see that return growth doesn't

[1:28:05] Voice 5: matter you know you can bring the golden currency hammer down

[1:28:09] Voice 5: but it's still going to take the time

[1:28:11] Voice 5: it takes right so um we um you know like ensure that we're going to keep collaborating so that

[1:28:19] Voice 5: we can just get these like intern solutions in place that will get us to the builds and ensure

[1:28:26] Voice 5: that we have that with anybody that's supported in different configurations like i look at fields and

[1:28:32] Voice 5: i look at these buildings so there's still other fields and i'm just like that's fine

[1:28:39] Voice 5: um so you can bet that's something that you know that would be a partnership

[1:28:44] Voice 5: or something like that to you because there'd be I don't know so I guess what my question is

[1:28:51] Voice 5: specific I'm trying to read in English here

[1:28:56] Voice 5: but just thinking about Kanaka and thinking about as an interim place for some dwellings

[1:29:05] Voice 5: or something like just looking at but lands that are already within our ability to use

[1:29:12] Voice 5: public land that um is zoned for a single family dwelling etc right at this point and there'd be a

[1:29:19] Voice 5: rezoning application right what's going on what's up with that are you doing a resumming application

[1:29:25] Voice 5: yeah we want to expand our transit system

[1:29:42] Voice 5: facility um so our workers can maintain parks for kids and families in terms of the available

[1:29:50] Voice 5: land we've got five acres on drake road yeah it's specifically for poor houses

[1:30:00] Voice 5: board housing being hopefully occupied by early 2021 and there's the rest of that property that's

[1:30:07] Voice 5: being leased to bc housing so there's five acres of clients that needs housing right now

[1:30:11] Voice 5: and because they're observing their own speed they don't have to go through a rezoning process

[1:30:21] Voice 5: and if we improve additional water we're building more water later this year there's a little bit

[1:30:27] Voice 5: 58 units for a property that's already can move ahead versus connecta which for 20 years has been

[1:30:36] Voice 5: used for maintenance capability and for which there are things to me now there is and i

[1:30:41] Voice 5: suggested there are one or two properties that were dedicated as a result of uh like when you

[1:30:48] Voice 5: do a subdivision by law you have to dedicate part of that so i think there are more new properties

[1:30:54] Voice 5: uh that uh are surplus to parts of rank needs not connect the room there are identified needs for

[1:31:03] Voice 5: that but uh so that that's what the lpt pick up on some of those properties when we're talking

[1:31:11] Voice 5: surplus to these but my point is

[1:31:17] Voice 7: The

[1:31:18] Voice 5: water is being drilled, when you don't need to, it's not an ALR, so why would we

[1:31:25] Voice 5: capitalize when we have no uses for it, and we've got 5 acres that's already much further

[1:31:33] Voice 5: ahead of the development, but it's very temporary.

[1:31:40] Voice 5: where camping can go on, where people from the story that we heard were living in tents

[1:31:50] Voice 5: and in mobile homes, places where everyone would accept that they were legal and they'd

[1:31:57] Voice 5: no longer be harassed.

[1:32:03] Voice 5: And we've discussed this before, the Bowen Park, and there's a lot of

[1:32:08] Voice 3: CRD stuff, which is great.

[1:32:20] Voice 5: Yeah, so Bowen Park, you are a loud camping, you are a loud overnight camping.

[1:32:28] Voice 5: can be. I said for a few years, the organization has an appropriate management plan for the

[1:32:37] Voice 5: initials, is willing to take responsibility for people who are going to be drinking and

[1:32:42] Voice 5: drinking drugs on the site. We've been looking at the Jacksonville file. Until then, it's

[1:33:02] Voice 5: It sounds

[1:33:03] Voice 7: like

[1:33:06] Voice 3: the two of you can have a great conversation, which is great.

[1:33:08] Voice 3: And again, I appreciate that.

[1:33:10] Voice 3: But the reason the three of us and these gentlemen here are really,

[1:33:16] Voice 5: you know, the

[1:33:18] Voice 3: local trust

[1:33:19] Voice 3: committee focused stuff.

[1:33:20] Voice 3: and and i appreciate gary that that you're here and that you know and that that we can have a like

[1:33:25] Voice 3: a dialogue that goes a little bit outside of what we do but uh just want to refocus us back and i'm

[1:33:32] Voice 3: very thankful to hear your conversation i have to say and i'm really

[1:33:36] Voice 5: happy to hear

[1:33:39] Voice 5: this is great

[1:33:42] Voice 5: working hours and inviting me yeah but there are so many issues where the trust in the crd

[1:33:50] Voice 5: or I think these town halls it's appropriate for both CRD and the trust to be available for

[1:33:58] Voice 5: questions and having a conversation so which one of you town hall can just be about the trust

[1:34:04] Voice 5: can just be about the CRD I

[1:34:06] Voice 3: don't disagree but I don't disagree but when it becomes a

[1:34:12] Voice 3: uh essentially a conversation with a couple of people

[1:34:16] Voice 7: then

[1:34:17] Voice 3: i i think that that what the

[1:34:20] Voice 3: takeaway there is you guys need to get together and talk some more we have and then uh and we're

[1:34:25] Voice 3: just yeah and that's great and it's it's all good stuff as

[1:34:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): we open up this oct project this is where

[1:34:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): we are going to have to work together across the agencies and and look at what is this community

[1:34:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): community and what is the housing that this community needs going forward and make sure

[1:34:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): that we're getting a line behind that because we are behind we clearly are behind because we don't

[1:34:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): have the housing for the employers that are on this island it is a crisis that's why people are

[1:34:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): in trailers that's why we uh you know that they're in boats and

[1:35:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): trailers and tents and and anywhere

[1:35:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): that they can find a place to to go and and that that that's not taking care of community

[1:35:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): community and we've got to move to housing that's stable and serve this community into the future

[1:35:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): and I'm hoping that that's what we're trying to achieve with this OCP.

[1:35:21] Voice 2: I just wanted to add in

[1:35:23] Voice 2: that I totally agree with what you were saying but I like me personally I've lived on a boat since I

[1:35:28] Voice 2: was seven years old like I'm not living on a boat because I don't like I agree that there's

[1:35:34] Voice 2: desperation in the housing situation but I think Mark as well it's not as driven out of the need

[1:35:41] Voice 2: but it's a choice and I think that that's important

[1:35:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): as well absolutely and when I say it's what the

[1:35:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): community needs and that's part of it it's not saying oh you can't have that it's what does the

[1:35:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): community need

[1:35:53] Voice 7: and let's get a line behind it just on the subject of 530 and the

[1:36:04] Voice 5: high table

[1:36:07] Voice 5: table with that my understanding was that that was the combination of some considerable

[1:36:15] community consultation but that proposal came forward to us fallen and there was I understand

[1:36:21] them and it didn't fit our table and it got a question to now are we going to be in every

[1:36:28] year no you know we're going to happen yes and then if that's the case then what considerations

[1:36:37] Voice 5: considerations are being given to what I would describe as the missing middle.

[1:36:42] Voice 5: We have a huge missing middle where there are people,

[1:36:46] Voice 5: we have some marginalized citizens, more vulnerable citizens who need housing.

[1:36:51] Voice 5: And then we have a very affluent who, it's not their own concern.

[1:36:56] Voice 5: They have any, what about everybody in the middle?

[1:37:00] Voice 5: Our lab techs, our nurses, our teachers,

[1:37:04] Voice 5: you know, where is the housing for them and what's really being talked about and what's

[1:37:11] Voice 5: really being considered for that sort of, for helping this middle population.

[1:37:16] Voice 5: Okay,

[1:37:17] Voice 6: the biggest issue

[1:37:17] Voice 5: is, well, as they say, 530 was considered just a baby step towards

[1:37:25] Voice 5: disaster, but

[1:37:27] Voice 7: perhaps the biggest shame on Thoffrin has

[1:37:29] Voice 7: been the treatment of dragonfly

[1:37:31] Voice 7: common

[1:37:31] Voice 5: which would

[1:37:32] Voice 5: have created just the same kind of housing that you're talking about uh for

[1:37:38] Voice 5: stately employed working class people to understand after years and years finally there's been some

[1:37:46] Voice 5: degree of progress made in that um as i said before this all gave great support to creeping

[1:37:52] Voice 5: incrementals so workforce ownership housing is something that you know it's probably opinionated

[1:38:01] Voice 5: about and i'm again i'll say you know we need zoning we also need to look at ganges and we're

[1:38:07] Voice 5: talking about that and we've been talking about zoning and we'll see how this plays out and what

[1:38:13] Voice 5: kind of you know progress we can make i'm cautiously optimistic that we're going to make

[1:38:19] Voice 5: some serious progress and again 530 is um yeah no subject right but the hardest part for me is

[1:38:27] Voice 5: observing the opportunity and the absolute relationship with speed it's all there it's

[1:38:35] Voice 5: really all there i mean there there's where is there i don't think i know a single

[1:38:45] Voice 5: space in their home that you know said well i don't i don't know

[1:38:51] Voice 5: well part of the thing is the renter tenant agreement is difficult for a lot of people

[1:38:57] Voice 5: go wild yeah because they're it's

[1:38:59] Voice 1: a nightmare story that's why ownership housing is very very

[1:39:02] Voice 1: important like i'm sure people would rather they can afford it to be putting their money into

[1:39:07] Voice 1: something and building equity even if it's a price controlled um situation like what a housing

[1:39:12] Voice 1: authority would be doing you know you would be able to buy a place for a mortgage under two

[1:39:17] Voice 1: thousand dollars but when you go to sell a place you're not going to be able to make a huge amount

[1:39:21] Voice 1: on profit you can only profit that you will make is what the cpi index um you know be in conjunction

[1:39:27] Voice 1: with that so however many percentage um points that is per year so let's say you know 10 years

[1:39:35] Voice 1: you paid 300 000 for your house in 10 years maybe you're going to get 350

[1:39:39] Voice 5: so the next person coming

[1:39:41] Voice 5: in can afford to buy it as well um very very important we need to go to ownership workforce

[1:39:47] Voice 5: workforce owner types of situations. Clearly we're going to need some rental stuff and 530 is just

[1:39:52] Voice 5: the baby step in that and

[1:39:54] Voice 1: there will be percentages of rentals in workforce ownership housing as well

[1:39:59] Voice 1: but that's the key there and

[1:40:01] Voice 5: we need to do the zoning. That's in our purview and that's what

[1:40:04] Voice 5: we need to do. And my only observation

[1:40:05] Voice 5: is that it's all there,

[1:40:07] Voice 5: it's all in front of you, what's

[1:40:09] Voice 5: taking so long? Yeah great question. What's taking so long? It's all repetitive bureaucracies from

[1:40:15] Voice 5: what i see um but yeah what's taking so long you know yeah yeah

[1:40:23] Voice 3: yeah and you know as far as the

[1:40:27] Voice 3: local trust committee it does come back you know a lot of the latiality comes back to um the reality

[1:40:34] Voice 3: that uh we're we're part of a larger federation and and i think across the federation there's

[1:40:41] Voice 3: a lot of issues with uh there's been ongoing issues with staffing uh losing staff and uh

[1:40:49] Voice 3: and there's there's ongoing issues with with resource allocation and uh you know salt spring

[1:40:55] Voice 3: is is has the biggest uh population in the trust area and at this point salt spring's the only

[1:41:02] Voice 3: local trust area with our with our new uh regional planning scheme that we're actually allowed to

[1:41:08] Voice 3: have three projects here and and and this is this is different because now before all the all the

[1:41:16] Voice 3: local trust areas used to be able to have three projects whether or not they actually went in the

[1:41:21] Voice 3: sink or whatever but um salt spring as much as we have constraints on our available resources

[1:41:30] Voice 3: our available staffing and stuff we actually have a lot more flexibility here than in some of the

[1:41:36] Voice 3: local other local trust areas um but yeah sure just a minute just want to complete the thought

[1:41:44] Voice 3: but but that doesn't mean that it's necessarily sufficient to do everything we want to do uh in

[1:41:50] Voice 3: the timely manner that we might want to get it done and to be fair it's not all the others trust

[1:41:55] Voice 3: fault

[1:41:55] Voice 5: and crd's fault um there have been um you know a number of local ngos that have been

[1:42:04] Voice 5: advocating heavily against any new development or added density these types of things it's clear so

[1:42:13] Voice 5: that's another huge part of the reason why things have taken so long there's a huge part not a huge

[1:42:19] Voice 5: part of the community a small amount of the community making a huge noise about not having

[1:42:24] Voice 5: these things come to fruition so that's been one of the large problems as well to be fair to the

[1:42:29] Voice 5: the government organizations

[1:42:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): you're right we do know a lot this project that we're going to be

[1:42:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): opening tomorrow which is the ocp lub we insisted that they be connected that we not just update the

[1:42:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): ocp and then move on and never update the our land use bylaws which is what happened on salt

[1:42:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): spring the ocp is 2008 and the land use bylaws are 1999 then they should always be

[1:42:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): together

[1:42:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): together, preferably same year, I think would be my, my objective. So this project could go,

[1:43:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): we need to take our time. I believe in going slow to go fast. Let's define this project. Well,

[1:43:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): we need to, you know, those of you that are here that are new voices, thank you. You're not new

[1:43:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): voices. They're just voices we didn't listen to before. Make sure you stay active in this process

[1:43:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): and be heard, show up.

[1:43:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): And if we can scale this project properly

[1:43:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): and define it right, we can move quickly.

[1:43:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): There's no reason why we have to go slow,

[1:43:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): but we really do know the answers.

[1:43:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): We just have to pull it together.

[1:43:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): And we do need to hear everyone, not just one voice.

[1:43:44] Voice 7: Did you have something, Eric?

[1:43:46] Voice 7: I do.

[1:43:47] Voice 7: What a surprise.

[1:44:02] Voice 5: So we do need to get in with them and software solutions is sponsoring an interagency meeting

[1:44:11] Voice 5: meeting, I think in mid-June. We have to find ways to pre-empt water, given the moratorium.

[1:44:19] Voice 5: The North Holtzberg is considering whether they can relax it or remove it. They're looking

[1:44:23] Voice 5: at all of their research and all of that. But the need to get the trust to see or to

[1:44:30] Voice 5: be promised in the same room to talk about ways in which to pre-empt water to supply

[1:44:37] Voice 5: by streets and colleges, which the trust has already legalized.

[1:44:41] Voice 5: Dragonfly has great water.

[1:44:42] Voice 5: But because they went ownership, they're

[1:44:46] Voice 5: required by law to establish a utility.

[1:44:51] Voice 5: They did not want to take that on as a strata for them.

[1:44:54] Voice 5: So they looked to North Salt Creek to do that.

[1:44:57] Voice 5: They were talking to North Salt Creek for a couple of years.

[1:45:00] Voice 5: They thought North Salt Creek was going to say yes.

[1:45:02] Voice 5: They said no.

[1:45:03] Voice 5: So Tiergate said yeah.

[1:45:05] Voice 5: and so we are now uh and the fact that the theory board the boards agree with the staff

[1:45:11] Voice 5: recommendations and move into the demo of the details of the spectrum of this action

[1:45:16] Voice 5: so right if i would build the plant uh to sue respects student will take it over and operate it

[1:45:23] Voice 5: and chart an active rate there's all the costs but because they went ownership if they got rental

[1:45:31] Voice 5: There would not be the need to establish utility. They would have also qualified for funding, because all the funding is in the rental. So we're trying to apply what we had with to the

[1:45:45] Voice 5: local construction of a water utility.

[1:45:48] Voice 5: And CRD has basically been a proxy of that.

[1:45:51] Voice 5: Sorry?

[1:45:52] Voice 5: The CRD obligation, the water

[1:45:55] Voice 5: provisioning for Crofton, but with a blocking pace that I can just

[1:45:58] Voice 5: area has nothing to do with property it's one owner so you don't need to establish utility

[1:46:07] Voice 5: because of the strategy they put themselves into that and you know it's there now it's making the

[1:46:13] Voice 5: pay for 400 000 it's going to be a great project they're doing small uh modular if you cost down

[1:46:20] Voice 5: but you know those units are going to be 250 400 000 but for a lot of people that will serve the

[1:46:27] Voice 5: I did want to make a point about that, and I mentioned this to Chris, and it does sort of protest.

[1:46:37] Voice 5: So the CRD will require a housing agreement on Dragonfly before they proceed.

[1:46:46] Voice 5: A housing agreement satisfactory to the trust, so that's in the trust, as it should be.

[1:46:52] Voice 5: but there's a concern

[1:46:54] Voice 5: about Catch-22.

[1:46:55] Voice 5: CERB is saying we need a housing agreement

[1:46:57] Voice 5: before we go ahead

[1:46:59] Voice 5: and I may be misunderstanding

[1:47:01] Voice 5: the process but the trust

[1:47:04] Voice 5: as I understand it is saying well

[1:47:05] Voice 5: we need to be assured that you've

[1:47:08] Voice 5: got the servicing together

[1:47:09] Voice 5: like your water utility together.

[1:47:11] Voice 5: There is a potential

[1:47:12] Voice 7: there for Catch-22

[1:47:14] Voice 5: but I've connected Chris with

[1:47:16] Voice 5: CERB staff and it's a matter

[1:47:18] Voice 5: of talking

[1:47:19] Voice 5: and working that out.

[1:47:21] Voice 5: So we don't have, we don't run on all the way to work it out.

[1:47:26] Voice 5: But the process-related issue, and it came up to Proctor as well,

[1:47:31] Voice 5: I think it might be helpful to move through more quickly,

[1:47:37] Voice 5: is if the trust could say, as they eventually did with Proctor,

[1:47:41] Voice 5: that from a line use perspective, we're good with the density

[1:47:47] Voice 5: that you're proposing here at this particular location,

[1:47:49] Voice 5: but we don't give a final reading final approval standard approval and know all the conditions

[1:47:56] Voice 5: around water uh servicing sewer all of that right but but you can improve the land use planning

[1:48:02] Voice 5: process too quickly with the final approval predicated on everything else being in place

[1:48:10] Voice 5: that might help with driving and

[1:48:13] Voice 3: it's my understanding gary that that uh it's it's

[1:48:17] Voice 3: not at all unusual to give conditional approval you know approval of with conditions and and so

[1:48:24] Voice 3: that i i don't see that as being something that we couldn't approach the question the

[1:48:30] Voice 5: uh the example

[1:48:36] Is that a one-off, or is

[1:48:41] Voice 5: it the same approach?

[1:48:48] Voice 5: They did a clever thing, too, around instead of going, I don't think you understand this,

[1:48:56] Voice 5: but instead of going bare-minded strata, they went building strata.

[1:49:00] Voice 5: What that means is that MOT, which is the subdivision authority,

[1:49:06] Voice 5: With a bare-limit strata, they get involved,

[1:49:08] Voice 5: and they can impose conditions,

[1:49:10] Voice 5: like, for example, upgrading direct road.

[1:49:12] Voice 5: Because they went and built a strata,

[1:49:15] Voice 5: a different kind of strata,

[1:49:16] Voice 5: it doesn't trigger MOT subdivision,

[1:49:19] Voice 5: which means MOT can't subdivide the same way

[1:49:22] Voice 5: you've got a repainted direct road.

[1:49:23] Voice 5: So that's under, less than possibly

[1:49:26] Voice 5: the road of the proponents.

[1:49:31] Voice 5: Stratus.

[1:49:32] Voice 5: Well, this is a different part of the problem.

[1:49:43] Voice 7: i have a question i'm not sure how would

[1:49:46] Voice 5: you answer this but i was just wondering whether

[1:49:48] Voice 5: the trust and the crd consider the newest offspring uh water moratorium nothing more

[1:49:56] Voice 5: or less than an attempt to get public funding uh for this quasi-private enterprise that because

[1:50:04] Voice 5: they would not allow more water more housing that eventually they would be able to press

[1:50:10] Voice 5: or pressure people into funding public funding

[1:50:14] Voice 5: given their existing structure,

[1:50:16] Voice 5: because the way they responded

[1:50:18] Voice 5: when the discussions with the CRD,

[1:50:21] Voice 5: probably made me personally very suspicious

[1:50:24] Voice 5: as to their motivation.

[1:50:26] Voice 5: Now, we have a couple of union trustee,

[1:50:28] Voice 5: you know, considerable quality

[1:50:31] Voice 5: that may have a direct impact.

[1:50:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): I don't want to comment on North Salt Spring

[1:50:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): or their motivations or reasons.

[1:50:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): I want to look at it another way. I look at it as, you know, Ganges is the area where we directed growth. 2008 OCP directed growth to Ganges. If we're going to direct growth to an area, you know, I hate planning terms, you know, an urban containment boundary, then to me there's obligations that go along with that, and that is to service that area.

[1:51:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I think we've got to find ways to have those conversations in parallel.

[1:51:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): We're going to designate an area for growth.

[1:51:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): We have to designate an area for services that the conversation happens together so

[1:51:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): that we link them and you don't have, oh, great, we can celebrate, we designated it

[1:51:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): for growth and then turn the tap off the next day.

[1:51:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): That's not planning in my books.

[1:51:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): We've got to pull them together and give some certainty that we're going to service that area.

[1:51:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): And so they can have conversations outside that area, but we've got to figure out how to do that.

[1:51:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): I think it's important. And Islands Trust has powers to coordinate.

[1:51:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): So if we have to coordinate those conversations, we should coordinate those conversations.

[1:51:56] Voice 5: Would that be like staff meeting to take that on, but then when there's so many staff issues?

[1:52:03] Voice 5: Coordinate

[1:52:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): is coordinating with the other, bring the other entities to the table.

[1:52:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): Kicking and screaming if we have to.

[1:52:09] Voice 5: So does that mean like the ability to, you know, make them resist?

[1:52:15] Voice 5: But our power is getting limited.

[1:52:18] Voice 5: We

[1:52:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): can force them to the table.

[1:52:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): Can't make them drink, but we can try to tie them.

[1:52:33] Voice 7: good ideas good ideas

[1:52:38] Voice 7: can i ask chris a question about the chair

[1:52:41] Voice 5: boarding house question that came up before

[1:52:43] Voice 5: when greg was mentioning it uh that he thought it was uh and i wasn't aware when we got uh the

[1:52:53] Voice 5: The Sears Transition House, the I-Waves Emergency

[1:53:02] Voice 5: facility for women, all are boarding houses slash

[1:53:08] Voice 5: boarding houses.

[1:53:08] Voice 5: They're all shared kitchens.

[1:53:10] Voice 5: And so it's my understanding is if there was a shared kitchen,

[1:53:13] Voice 5: you can have more than one unrelated person in the house.

[1:53:21] In fact, a number.

[1:53:23] and

[1:53:23] Voice 5: I wasn't aware that there was

[1:53:25] Voice 5: a

[1:53:27] Voice 5: seems to be

[1:53:28] Voice 5: and I don't know, maybe it's just because of Tinker's

[1:53:31] Voice 5: own reason, but

[1:53:33] Voice 5: is there a

[1:53:35] Voice 5: Chris, can you shed light on that

[1:53:37] Voice 5: boarding house, roomy house

[1:53:38] Voice 5: there wasn't really no

[1:53:41] Voice 5: seven

[1:53:42] Voice 5: women in the residence

[1:53:44] Voice 5: yeah

[1:53:47] Voice 5: I think that's

[1:53:49] Voice 7: perhaps

[1:54:24] Voice 5: it's

[1:54:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): not us that's the province i can tell you uh emily olson and i have uh

[1:54:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): The man, Gary, we've all battled on that

[1:54:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): and called for the province to actually tie in these on wheels

[1:54:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): because it is an important aspect.

[1:54:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): It's a better asset than a trailer, and it's mobile,

[1:54:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): so it can move with the owner, and there's so many good things,

[1:54:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): and it'd be nice to see a path for that.

[1:54:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): It's very frustrating, but it's the province that's dragging the feet.

[1:54:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): Nova Scotia has overcome it, and we've been putting this.

[1:54:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): food it's like this this government says housing is important it's like nova scotia solved the

[1:55:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): housing of the tiny homes on wheels i can't wait which

[1:55:06] Voice 5: is not anything any of us know anything

[1:55:09] Voice 5: about the people on boats are on a disability but the problems only recognize that housing

[1:55:19] Voice 7: You can't get any money to maintain the vote without a provincial rule.

[1:55:28] Voice 7: I think we need to place a claim on that.

[1:55:42] Voice 7: I

[1:55:43] Voice 5: went to the right to be supervisor of elections for my candidate,

[1:55:48] Voice 5: to at least establish a freedom on vote to vote,

[1:55:51] Voice 5: and claiming that the nearest marina is their equivalent of the draft.

[1:55:58] Voice 5: I have this in writing from the TRD Black House.

[1:56:02] Voice 5: Yeah, they get to use energies.

[1:56:03] All right.

[1:56:05] I have had a secret from the marina that they don't

[1:56:09] Voice 5: like people doing that.

[1:56:11] Voice 5: Well, all right.

[1:56:15] Voice 5: Yeah.

[1:56:16] Voice 5: They don't have to do it.

[1:56:19] Voice 5: It won't last very long.

[1:56:22] Voice 5: Not a major press on marina facilities.

[1:56:34] Voice 5: So

[1:56:35] Voice 3: before we close the formal part of this, I just wonder if you can ask for any more

[1:56:42] Voice 3: questions.

[1:56:44] Voice 3: I just want to respect that staff have a light not to try to shut us down early, but we're

[1:56:51] Voice 3: basically we share a lot of time, so I want to respect that they might want to get home

[1:56:55] Voice 3: and and along with their stuff before i close this this portion does anyone have

[1:57:01] Voice 3: any more questions or comments they want to make okay well i just want to thank everybody

[1:57:08] Voice 3: for coming out this was a really thoughtful discussion great questions and uh um as a

[1:57:14] Voice 3: non-resident of salt spring i i've learned a bunch tonight and i really appreciate it

[1:57:20] Voice 3: and uh thank you everybody for coming out and director holman and staff and trustees for for

[1:57:27] Voice 3: being here too so and

[1:57:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): thank you thank you everybody

[1:57:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): thank you yeah

[1:57:30] Voice 3: so

[1:57:33] Voice 7: i'll call for adjournment

[1:57:36] Voice 7: all right we'll take that by consent so

[1:57:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): we're meeting tomorrow so so we are meeting tomorrow

[1:57:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): there is another town hall section in the morning a little burning thing that comes over

[1:57:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): over the night that's at 9 30 9 30 in the morning uh so we're going to send so if you thought this

[1:57:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): was riveting and exciting we have a whole day of it tomorrow and uh but uh you can email anytime

[1:57:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): we want to hear from you yeah thanks thank you

Salt Spring Island ADOPTED 1 
Local Trust Committee Special Meeting Minutes 
May 17, 2023 
 
 
Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee 
Minutes of Special Meeting 
 
 
Date:  
Location:  
Wednesday, May 17, 2023 
Fulford Seniors Centre 
Rd, Salt Spring Island, BC 
 
Members Present: Timothy Peterson, Chair 
 Laura Patrick, Local Trustee 
 Jamie Harris, Local Trustee 
  
Staff Present: Chris Hutton, Regional Planning Manager (RPM) 
 Rob Pingle, Recorder 
 
Gary Holman 
A member of the press 
Approximately 11 members of the public 
  
1. CALL TO ORDER 
Chair Peterson called the meeting to order at 5:08 pm.  He acknowledged that the meeting was 
being held on the territory of the Coast Salish First Nations, and welcomed Trustees and Staff. 
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 
By general consent the agenda was approved as presented. 
3. TOWN HALL AND QUESTIONS 
A member of the public asked about the ability of the Local Trust Committee (LTC) to address 
workforce housing. 
There was discussion about the LTC providing adequate zoning and the CRD or a non-profit 
society providing a housing authority similar to what is in Whistler. There was discussion about 
the current proposed Bylaw 530 and the coordination of services in Ganges. Housing 
Agreements were discussed. 
A member of the public noted that 30% of the average income of people in the province is 
required in a housing agreement covenant.  
There was discussion about the current definitions of affordable housing. There was discussion 
about the current funding models of senior levels of government that require housing 
agreements. 
There was discussion about the recent announcement by the province to not alter the building 
code to allow for Tiny Homes typically defined to have wheels. 

 
Salt Spring Island ADOPTED 2 
Local Trust Committee Special Meeting Minutes 
May 17, 2023 
 
 
A member of the public asked if the LTC has access to what constitutes affordable housing.  
There was discussion about the variable nature of affordable housing based on the location 
where the housing is being provided and that linking it to a percentage of income is normal. 
There was discussion about what the needs of the present community is and that the Official 
Community Plan project will work to address it. 
A member of the public spoke to the departure of friends of co-workers from the island due to 
the lack of affordable housing. They expressed their needs as being a couple who cannot afford 
more than $2000/month and requirement of public transportation. 
There was discussion about the ability for workforce housing to address this need and that 
improving the zoning is a way for the LTC to address it.  
A member of the public spoke to the fines that they have experienced through the bylaw 
enforcement of LTC regulations. 
There was discussion about adding bylaw enforcement to the in-camera agenda to the meeting 
tomorrow. There was discussion about the alternative living solutions that some property 
owners are providing and the need to change the rules to Islands Trust to allow for these 
solutions. 
A member of the public asked how enforcement priorities are set and if the trustees can provide 
guidance on what is enforced.  
There was discussion about the priorities of bylaw enforcement being complaint driven through 
the members of the community. There was discussion about Trust Council requesting the 
ombudsmen to report on the bylaw enforcement activities of the Islands Trust. There was 
comment about the standing resolutions made by Local Trust Committees throughout the Trust 
area to address specific issues such as short term vacation rental. 
A member of the public asked if short-term vacation rentals experience the same enforcement 
as other issues. 
There was a request for a show of hands to express an opinion on proactive enforcement of 
short-term vacation rentals. A tally of the hands was not taken. 
A member of the public asked if there was going to be enforcement or a change to the land use 
bylaw to limit live-aboard boats in our harbours. 
There was discussion about the Clean and Safe Harbour Initiative and how it is a community 
initiative not under the direction of the LTC. 
A member of the public spoke to the community created bylaw and the challenges found in it 
that would impact their current living situation. 
There was discussion about the community concerns and that there would be considerations to 
address the issues raised. 
A member of the public expressed that in the process of creating the community bylaw they had 
not been consulted while it seemed other larger organizations had been. 
It was noted that the community bylaw had not been presented to the LTC yet and that the 
work program for the LTC is already subscribed for the foreseeable future.  

 
Salt Spring Island ADOPTED 3 
Local Trust Committee Special Meeting Minutes 
May 17, 2023 
 
 
There was discussion about the ability for live-aboard boats to be allowed in the marinas. 
A member of the public spoke to the work of the Clean and Safe Harbour Initiative to allow for 
the live-aboard boats and asked members of the audience to speak with them further about it 
after the meeting. 
A member of the public spoke to the Ganges Village Planning Task Force (GVPTF) and the 
encouragement for those members to join the Advisory Planning Commission (APC). It was 
noted there was a miscommunication on the deadline to apply for the APC in the letter received 
by members of the GVPTF.  
A member of the public spoke to the Coastal Douglas Fir Presentation that will be discussed at 
the regular LTC meeting May 18. It was noted that aspects of the workshop that were not 
included in the report that is being presented. 
There was discussion about the need for a wild fire management plan that includes the public 
forest land. It was noted that the wild fire risk reduction aspect of the Coastal Douglas Fir 
project would be included in the Official Community Plan project. 
A member of the public spoke about Accessory Dwelling Units and the sparse increased density 
it will create without adequate public transit.  
There was discussion about how the proposed Bylaw 530 would more likely make illegal 
dwellings legal rather than creating new sparse dwellings. It was suggested that further projects 
would create more dense dwelling areas that could be more easily accessed by public transit.  
A member of the public asked about the current timeline for proposed Bylaw 530 and the ability 
to address the current floor space ratio of secondary suites to allow for larger units. They also 
spoke to the change to the potential for subdivision and the inability to allow for more than two 
units in a current dwelling.  
There was discussion about the purpose of proposed Bylaw 530 to convert already allowed 
seasonal cottages into accessory dwelling units. There was discussion about how the Official 
Community Plan project could address the move away from single family dwellings. There was a 
discussion that occupancy limits could be included for discussion during the project.  
A member of the public spoke to the needs to create rules that regulate through water use 
rather than limiting growth. 
There was discussion about the need to address water storage so that the population could be 
increased.  
A member of the public asked about the Housing Accelerator Fund and the progress being made 
towards the LTC participating in it. 
There was discussion about more information being provided by staff at the regular LTC meeting 
on May 18. It was noted that the application limits the participation of the LTC and that the 
Capital Regional District (CRD) would have projects eligible for this funding. There was discussion 
about the coordination taking place between the LTC and CRD.  
A member of the public spoke about using a current park for a camp ground while other housing 
opportunities are being developed.  

 
Salt Spring Island ADOPTED 4 
Local Trust Committee Special Meeting Minutes 
May 17, 2023 
 
 
There was discussion about the CRD Drake Road property potential for housing and that there 
may be surplus to need park land that the CRD Local Community Commission could consider as 
surplus to need. It was noted that a provider could make a proposal to provide camping services 
in Mouats Park for review by the CRD. 
A member of the public spoke to their enjoyment of living on a boat. 
A member of the public asked about the proposed Bylaw 530 timetable. 
There was discussion that the proposed bylaw would be addressed in less than a year. 
A member of the public asked about the way to address the missing middle housing issue. 
There was discussion about the proposed Dragonfly Commons and the barriers the 
development has experienced.  
There was discussion about the renter tenant agreements required for rental properties in 
comparison to the ability to own through work force ownership properties. 
There was discussion about staffing issues within the Islands Trust and the resources available to 
the individual islands of the Islands Trust. There was discussion about the Official Community 
Plan project needing to be synchronised with the Land Use Bylaw project.  
There was discussion about the challenges of supplying water to new ownership properties in 
comparison to new rental properties.  
A member of the public asked about the North Salt Spring Water Works moratorium and their 
motivations. 
There was discussion about how if the LTC directs growth to specific areas then there must be 
coordination with service providers to ensure the growth can be met.  
5. ADJOURNMENT 
By general consent the meeting was adjourned at 7:03pm. 
 
 
 
_________________________ 
Timothy Peterson, Chair 
Certified Correct: 
 
 
_________________________ 
Rob Pingle, Recorder