North Pender Island Local Trust Committee regular meeting, July 26, 2023

[0:00:00] Voice 6: So we, um, we, you know, we thought a deck would be, you know, I, you know, a deck would

[0:00:05] Voice 6: be a great option.

[0:00:07] Voice 6: And obviously we, we spend a lot of time outdoors, so we love to have a deck.

[0:00:11] Voice 6: Um, and we try to keep that as, as small as possible.

[0:00:16] Voice 6: Um, so it wouldn't extend any further past the existing, um, uh, the existing fill that's

[0:00:23] Voice 6: currently there, um, was kind of our reasoning.

[0:00:26] Voice 6: We felt that a 10-foot deck isn't too much.

[0:00:30] Voice 6: I mean, it's enough for us to, you know, it's enough for us to utilize

[0:00:35] Voice 6: and it still kind of falls within where the existing fill is.

[0:00:40] Voice 6: So our thought is that if we remove the fill,

[0:00:44] Voice 6: we'd only be kind of going into the setback area about eight feet

[0:00:49] Voice 6: where the deck posts would go, three or four deck posts.

[0:00:54] Voice 6: so that's kind of a yeah it's kind of how it evolved um i'm not sure if there's i'll stop

[0:01:00] Voice 6: there if there's any any

[0:01:02] Voice 2: questions for clarification no i don't have

[0:01:14] Voice 2: i

[0:01:14] Voice 5: don't have any

[0:01:15] Voice 5: big questions at this point do you burt i

[0:01:20] Voice 4: know that makes sense about what you've considered

[0:01:22] Voice 4: so far um

[0:01:25] Voice 7: initially sorry the pins were in a different location so we did believe our deck

[0:01:32] Voice 7: was it did go to the pin where we were shown when we

[0:01:37] Voice 7: purchased the lot where the property line was

[0:01:39] Voice 7: that we could build to um yeah i

[0:01:42] Voice 5: i don't know if we should really hear that yeah argument i don't

[0:01:48] Voice 5: right like you did put an offer on the property the right the survey that we have as part of the

[0:01:57] Voice 5: supplements we didn't have no there was an opportunity to do exploration of the lot but

[0:02:04] Voice 5: yeah so i i feel like we should look at

[0:02:09] Voice 5: kind of where we're at now yeah the

[0:02:11] Voice 5: septic tanks are a

[0:02:12] Voice 5: bit worrying to me because they do sit and we can see from the survey you provided they do sit

[0:02:17] Voice 5: well into the setback if there was a problem with them they would go into the ocean i suppose

[0:02:27] Voice 5: anywhere on this property things would go into the ocean yeah yeah so i'm

[0:02:32] Voice 6: we i

[0:02:33] Voice 5: do have some concern

[0:02:34] Voice 5: about that yeah

[0:02:36] Voice 6: and and and we tend to agree with or not can we do we do we see that and i mean we'd

[0:02:43] Voice 6: be open we we had a we had a septic uh contractor come out after you um you guys um left the

[0:02:51] Voice 6: property um just to kind of have a look at some different options and um and um we could uh

[0:02:58] Voice 6: potentially replace those i know you had some concerns about like you said about the the tanks

[0:03:04] Voice 6: we could you know potentially um upgrade those tanks to plastic and potentially move them up

[0:03:11] Voice 6: uh you know not not out of the setback because that'd be just about impossible but we could move

[0:03:17] Voice 6: them potentially three to ten feet up from the ocean and put in plastic tanks so that they can

[0:03:26] Voice 6: be easily replaced in the future and it would give a it'd give more of a barrier between the tanks

[0:03:33] Voice 6: and the retaining wall we you know maybe have five to ten feet of fill that would create a bit of a

[0:03:40] Voice 6: a barrier between uh between that um as as an option we kind of looked at it he said it'd be

[0:03:47] Voice 6: about 20k to do that i mean obviously um we don't have a ton of money but but understanding your

[0:03:53] Voice 6: concerns we would be open to to uh to pursuing that um i can't guarantee how far we can move it

[0:04:02] Voice 6: from the ocean side because it all depends on the contractor he has to it has to be 10 feet away

[0:04:10] Voice 6: from a dwelling and it has to be um it has to be at least three feet away from the septic field so

[0:04:18] Voice 6: we would attempt make it all attempts to move it as as far from the ocean as we can to give uh

[0:04:24] Voice 6: give a barrier between the um between the retaining wall and uh and uh the tanks as much

[0:04:32] Voice 6: as we possibly can but it's hard to tell you exactly where that can be placed until until the

[0:04:40] Voice 6: you know until he lays out the septic field and and actually digs in that area to find out exactly

[0:04:46] Voice 6: where where we could place a new new plastic tank so i mean it was a really good kind of point you

[0:04:52] Voice 6: made andrew that you know those tanks um if they break down in 20 years you know how do you get

[0:04:58] Voice 6: them out of there and we kind of started taking taking a look at that a little bit more serious

[0:05:02] Voice 6: And with the plastic tanks, it's easier to replace them because they're, you know, instead of 10,000 pounds, they're 500 pounds.

[0:05:13] Voice 6: So we did take that and really look at that closely and do agree with your concerns there.

[0:05:21] Voice 5: Yeah, my concern mostly with the tanks was just the proximity to the ocean and where they would fall.

[0:05:27] Voice 5: I am looking through your septic engineers report.

[0:05:31] Voice 5: report and one thing that they kind of highlight is the need for annual servicing of septic tanks

[0:05:37] Voice 5: right and i know the septic tanks that i have on my property they require a pump out i know i don't

[0:05:44] Voice 5: know all of the septic contractors and how they work but the one that i that comes here they do

[0:05:49] Voice 5: have a very long hose but i would be surprised i guess if they were able to park in your driveway

[0:05:55] Voice 5: with their big pump out truck and get to the septic tanks in their current location so my

[0:06:00] Voice 5: My feeling is like for a lot of reasons, the septic tank location isn't perhaps the best location.

[0:06:07] Voice 5: So I do have concerns with that aspect of the of the variance request here.

[0:06:12] Voice 6: Yeah. The just to answer your question about we lived on a blueberry farm and our our septic tanks were

[0:06:18] Voice 6: low.

[0:06:19] Voice 6: We don't now, unfortunately, but but our septic tanks were located kind of similar to they're on the opposite side of the house.

[0:06:28] Voice 6: and it was a very long distance and they they were able to they were able to pump them out they

[0:06:35] Voice 6: had a very long hose but but we do have a really good and I'm not saying this may be always the

[0:06:41] Voice 6: case but our our neighbor you know has allowed us to you know they could use their driveway which

[0:06:49] Voice 6: would reduce the the length down to about

[0:06:52] Voice 6: 40 feet so there are there there are two there are I I'm

[0:06:57] Voice 6: not too worried about that in all honesty about getting them pumped out um i i was more worried

[0:07:03] Voice 6: about getting them you know replaced uh if if anything was to break down in 20 years or

[0:07:10] Voice 6: something i guess was but i i wasn't too concerned with the pump out um but um that's my obviously my

[0:07:18] Voice 6: opinion my

[0:07:19] Voice 5: concern with the pump out is more the like environmental aspects of having a hose that

[0:07:23] Voice 5: that long what happens if something happens to the hose i

[0:07:26] Voice 3: mean i've

[0:07:27] Voice 5: heard of that happening before

[0:07:27] Voice 5: like a rock gets sucked up into the hose all of a sudden they've got 40 feet or more of sewage to

[0:07:33] Voice 5: dispose of somewhere i don't know that that should really enter into our discussion but well

[0:07:40] Voice 4: i i think

[0:07:41] Voice 4: that there's some rationale around this part of the discussion because i'm of the same opinion

[0:07:47] Voice 4: that first of all, you know, they're old tanks,

[0:07:51] Voice 4: and second of all, they do need to be maintained.

[0:07:54] Voice 4: And so consideration of some changes

[0:07:58] Voice 4: to that particular design will result in perhaps

[0:08:02] Voice 4: not requiring the same variants that you've got requested

[0:08:06] Voice 4: for the septic tanks as they currently sit.

[0:08:08] Voice 4: If it was redesigned, the variants would be different,

[0:08:11] Voice 4: and it would be nice to see what that design looks like

[0:08:14] Voice 4: and be able to make a reasonable decision

[0:08:17] Voice 4: based on the new design it would also impact the location of that retaining wall because

[0:08:22] Voice 4: you wouldn't need to put the retaining wall in front of the septic tanks where it is currently

[0:08:28] Voice 4: designed and you'd be able to pull it back i understand there's a need to put a retaining

[0:08:32] Voice 4: wall in and it would likely still be within the setback of 15 meters from the ocean but it would

[0:08:37] Voice 4: be much less of a variance required to be able to retain the sand that's in your septic field

[0:08:43] Voice 4: and perhaps wherever you end up siting the septic tank.

[0:08:47] Voice 4: So I guess when I think about the order of business here,

[0:08:53] Voice 4: the septic tank request for a variance as it stands today

[0:08:59] Voice 4: is something that I think we should table

[0:09:02] Voice 4: until you get a new design

[0:09:03] Voice 4: and then reapply for that particular variance

[0:09:06] Voice 4: based on whatever the new design is.

[0:09:09] Voice 4: Andrew, what do you think of that?

[0:09:10] Voice 5: Yeah, I like that approach.

[0:09:12] Voice 5: like I feel that Heather and Kevin have done a lot of work in bringing this

[0:09:17] Voice 5: variance forward. They do have a challenging lot. I,

[0:09:22] Voice 5: I really don't want to say no to anything here because I feel I don't want to

[0:09:26] Voice 5: close the door and I'm much happier asking for more information.

[0:09:31] Voice 5: I see Brad has his hand up,

[0:09:32] Voice 5: but my own feeling is that if we ask for more information,

[0:09:35] Voice 5: they give them an opportunity to come back or it kind of puts the ball back in

[0:09:38] Voice 5: their court. Yeah.

[0:09:41] Voice 2: yeah

[0:09:42] Voice 6: i guess my but it might i guess my only comment on that and and obviously we don't have

[0:09:49] Voice 6: a problem with that it's just more the the timing around it and i guess the the i i'm just thinking

[0:09:56] Voice 6: that maybe i'm just wondering wouldn't it be better to just keep the the retaining walls where

[0:10:02] Voice 6: they are and it creates more of a barrier um you know from uh it gives you more of a

[0:10:09] Voice 6: where that fill is going to be more protection um from the from the tanks um is there is there

[0:10:15] Voice 6: any thought there and i guess um i guess just your point um i think we're still gonna we're

[0:10:21] Voice 6: still gonna require a variance um may it be you know three feet less or four feet less um does

[0:10:29] Voice 6: Does that make that big of a difference?

[0:10:33] Voice 6: I guess is my comment to that.

[0:10:39] Voice 6: I mean, we're still going to do whatever we possibly can to move it.

[0:10:48] Voice 6: But is it going to make that much of a difference if it's three feet or five feet or within

[0:10:55] Voice 6: the setback, I guess is my point or my comment.

[0:10:58] Voice 6: Well,

[0:10:58] Voice 5: I think that Bert talked about how it would enable the retaining wall to step back a bit from

[0:11:03] Voice 5: the ocean. So I feel like that might make a difference. I don't feel that the retaining

[0:11:07] Voice 5: wall really should be considered to offer a level of protection. A retaining wall, I'm not an

[0:11:14] Voice 5: engineer. I've drawn pictures of retaining walls plenty. And my understanding of how a properly

[0:11:19] Voice 5: functioning retaining wall would work is that it would hold back the soil, but that groundwater

[0:11:24] Voice 5: water would basically pour right through it. You can imagine there's a big slope behind your

[0:11:28] Voice 5: property all the way up to sort of the top of shoal there. So there's a lot of hydrostatic

[0:11:32] Voice 5: pressure. And if the retaining wall didn't let water flow through it, the retaining wall would

[0:11:37] Voice 5: simply get smashed, right? So anything that comes out into that water is going straight into the

[0:11:45] Voice 5: ocean. That's at least my understanding of how that works. So the retaining wall doesn't offer

[0:11:50] Voice 5: protection. My thoughts of the discussion of the retaining wall are simply maintaining the

[0:11:56] Voice 5: appearance of shoreline is what that retaining wall is or variance is about.

[0:12:02] Voice 4: And looking at the

[0:12:03] Voice 4: design, you know, the retaining wall that is proposed in front of the septic tanks is, you

[0:12:08] Voice 4: know, maybe not significant, but it is much closer to the natural boundary where I kind of agree with

[0:12:14] Voice 4: what you're saying um kevin that the existing retaining wall that's there that that is um i

[0:12:24] Voice 4: guess what direction would that be um west of the septic tank looks like it's doing a job it may be

[0:12:33] Voice 4: need to be raised higher to be able to retain all of the sand that you've got uh in the um in the

[0:12:40] Voice 4: the disposal field but when you decommission those septic tanks you know and replace that

[0:12:45] Voice 4: that short part with a retaining wall and join it into the existing retaining wall I think you're

[0:12:50] Voice 4: going to have a similar look I think it's less disruptive to the natural environment as well

[0:12:54] Voice 4: rather than in your original proposal you were considering removing that retaining wall because

[0:13:00] Voice 4: although it's not necessarily structurally sound it's still doing its job and it's it's I think

[0:13:06] Voice 4: you know

[0:13:07] Voice 4: protecting stuff from falling down that slope and as long as you don't use a retaining

[0:13:11] Voice 4: wall in a structural manner i think it shouldn't inhibit the development of your lot and building

[0:13:17] Voice 4: the foundations what

[0:13:19] Voice 1: i would caution that building inspection might get to a point where they say

[0:13:24] Voice 1: why isn't this wall engineered at this point and so another option would be for you to pursue a

[0:13:33] Voice 1: approach with RISAC that would create an engineered wall across the entire front face of that

[0:13:40] Voice 1: site and this is

[0:13:43] Voice 1: one it's a little tricky where you are

[0:13:47] Voice 1: more typically I would say that these variants are driven by a building permit application but

[0:13:53] Voice 1: in your case because you really need some clarification on your variances before you

[0:13:57] Voice 1: can even get to a place where you can you know reasonably put in a plan for a building permit

[0:14:03] Voice 1: it's kind of like what comes first uh uh because if you're at this place seeking variants with

[0:14:13] Voice 1: a building permit already on the move and underway you have a better understanding of what

[0:14:18] Voice 1: the crd is willing to allow you to move forward with there is a good chance that you might get

[0:14:24] Voice 1: to the building inspection stage and then have a real issue with that portion of wall not being

[0:14:29] Voice 1: engineered um

[0:14:32] Voice 6: sorry but i'm just just for clarity which um which portion of the wall like so

[0:14:38] Voice 6: so you

[0:14:42] Voice 1: have the you have the engineered uh wall from ryzik on the left and the right

[0:14:47] Voice 1: yeah and and then you currently have the non-engineered rock wall oh yes they're

[0:14:55] Voice 1: sitting in between their two engineered portions which they have recommended removing probably

[0:15:01] Voice 1: because partly because they don't want the liability concern of connecting their engineered

[0:15:07] Voice 1: portion to your unengineered portion uh i guess an option would be like we as we spoke to on monday

[0:15:17] Voice 1: like what is the reason for removing that fill uh and what is it going to look like when you

[0:15:24] Voice 1: when you remove that full fill it's really hard to say but one thing you could do is just engineer

[0:15:29] Voice 1: a wall across the whole front face of that slope um

[0:15:34] Voice 6: but so i like so you're saying if we

[0:15:38] Voice 6: if we kept the existing existing wall like are you suggesting that we i

[0:15:44] Voice 1: think you would have to

[0:15:45] Voice 1: remove the existing wall and insert an engineered wall yeah

[0:15:52] Voice 2: well

[0:15:53] Voice 6: wouldn't that be the um wouldn't

[0:15:55] Voice 6: that wouldn't the house foundation and then the two engineered walls on the side um do you cover

[0:16:02] Voice 6: that that

[0:16:02] Voice 1: i don't know that's what that's the unknown oh okay is is that is that that that

[0:16:10] Voice 1: that building inspection will require geotech for sure.

[0:16:16] Voice 1: They will

[0:16:16] Voice 1: require a geotech approach.

[0:16:18] Voice 1: And whether that geotech, whether your foundation can be,

[0:16:22] Voice 1: whether you can meet their geotech requirements

[0:16:25] Voice 1: through just your foundation setting,

[0:16:27] Voice 1: or if you need an engineered wall there

[0:16:30] Voice 1: to provide additional buttressing

[0:16:33] Voice 1: to then have your decks and rest of your structure there.

[0:16:39] Voice 1: there that's a that's a question i guess yeah

[0:16:42] Voice 6: we did we did ask christian from risick and

[0:16:46] Voice 6: he just felt that the the foundation would have to be um beefed up on on the on the ocean side

[0:16:53] Voice 6: but in saying that um you know until until the uh until the hole is dug and and i guess the fill

[0:17:01] Voice 6: is removed um but he did say that it would be that would be um done through the the house

[0:17:07] Voice 6: house foundation it would they'd beef up the the house foundation um at the front is what we said

[0:17:13] Voice 6: when we were

[0:17:14] Voice 3: when we

[0:17:15] Voice 6: were talking about that um but um but that's um yeah that was his comment to

[0:17:21] Voice 6: that but i don't

[0:17:24] Voice 1: mean i yeah i don't mean to be throwing wrenches it's just you have a complex

[0:17:28] Voice 1: application here and it is difficult to kind of figure out which goes first it's hard for me

[0:17:35] Voice 5: looking at this to rationalize the amount of kind of speculation and guessing that we have to do

[0:17:42] Voice 5: in order to understand what's being requested here. I look at the house plans, and I'm not sure

[0:17:52] Voice 5: how buildable this house is, or if it fits into the lot or how it fits into the lot.

[0:17:58] Voice 5: We've talked, you know, we talk of removing that big front retaining wall.

[0:18:02] Voice 5: and then i look at the basement floor plan and there's a set of double doors and i wonder like

[0:18:09] Voice 5: what do those double doors step out onto are they just stepping right out into the gully

[0:18:12] Voice 5: we talked about like extending for the deck and i look at the deck here and the deck in the in

[0:18:21] Voice 5: the pictures is shown on three deck supports with some very huge cantilevers and i wonder like is it

[0:18:31] Voice 5: it possible to extend a deck this far i wonder if maybe more we need more input from more engineers

[0:18:40] Voice 5: to sort of say like yes this is a viable building and this is how it would operate and this is how

[0:18:44] Voice 5: it fit into the site this is how the retaining walls would work this is how water flow around

[0:18:49] Voice 5: the house would work so that we get sort of a resolution and an understanding that it would

[0:18:53] Voice 5: be possible to create this thing exactly like this and that this is the ask we'd be going for

[0:18:59] Voice 5: yeah

[0:19:00] Voice 6: the um just uh it does on the plans it does show uh there's two decks that we've uh we've

[0:19:08] Voice 6: asked for so there's a

[0:19:09] Voice 6: there's an upper and a lower deck um definitely the cantilever portion

[0:19:15] Voice 6: would be two feet um um from the from the deck posts um so um yeah uh yeah so when i look at

[0:19:27] Voice 5: Well, when I

[0:19:28] Voice 5: look at the right prelim drawing, I'm not sure of the page number.

[0:19:32] Voice 5: I don't think this page is number on prelim side elevations.

[0:19:37] Voice 5: There is a

[0:19:37] Voice 5: portion of deck cantilevered.

[0:19:39] Voice 5: The entire left side of the deck hangs in the air.

[0:19:42] Voice 5: That's way more than two feet, right?

[0:19:45] Voice 6: Yeah, that's not the intent.

[0:19:48] Voice 6: I'm just trying to find...

[0:19:49] Voice 5: And then

[0:19:49] Voice 5: when I, you know, and then when I think of like my knowledge of a,

[0:19:53] Voice 5: I believe this would have to be a part nine building.

[0:19:56] Voice 5: And you know, like, I'm not an engineer, but I've drawn a few buildings. I think, like, how is this main floor supported? Like, where is the shear in this? We haven't really had a building department or a registered professional look at the house.

[0:20:15] Voice 5: the only registered professional we've had is the geotechnical engineer and a septic engineer

[0:20:23] Voice 5: on this project. And we're pushing for a very complex design. So for my own knowledge, I would

[0:20:31] Voice 5: want to see a bit more like concrete evidence that this would work. Yeah, a bit of certainty,

[0:20:39] Voice 5: right? If you look at your main floor plan, we see the deck posts are shown and there's three

[0:20:44] Voice 5: deck posts but on the sort of page south the bottom side of this deck

[0:20:48] Voice 5: all of that is floating

[0:20:51] Voice 6: yeah that's not that's not the intent and

[0:20:54] Voice 5: then if we look at the upper floor plan the

[0:20:58] Voice 5: um sort of page north and page east walls are all entirely glass right so i look at this and i think

[0:21:06] Voice 5: is there a way that this house can stand up and we talk of needing a beefy beefy foundation

[0:21:12] Voice 5: foundation. How does that fit into the site? I'm just not sure of that. It feels like

[0:21:22] Voice 5: we need more information to be able to make an accurate judgment on this. I don't think that

[0:21:27] Voice 5: pushing a deck out over top of the setback area is necessarily not in keeping with the idea of

[0:21:36] Voice 5: the setback. But I want to get an idea of how much can we push it out? How is that deck anchored to

[0:21:42] Voice 5: the ground what happens to the ground beneath it and my feeling is that i just i don't have

[0:21:49] Voice 5: certainty from these drawings as to how this operates and

[0:21:55] Voice 1: and it i just to build on that it's

[0:21:58] Voice 1: it's even more difficult to have certainty when we don't even understand where those posts are

[0:22:05] Voice 1: supposed to sit we we don't understand how far and what is underneath so it's not like you have

[0:22:13] Voice 1: have that building site already there that you're going to be plunking those posts on you're going

[0:22:17] Voice 1: to be having to excavate all that backfilled material and then

[0:22:20] Voice 1: figuring out what you have

[0:22:22] Voice 1: there um in removing all that material uh you might have to go down deeper than you expect and

[0:22:29] Voice 1: then right

[0:22:31] Voice 2: well what

[0:22:32] Voice 2: if um what if what i would

[0:22:34] Voice 1: yeah just just before i would also point out that

[0:22:37] Voice 1: andrew makes some really good observations about your plants here and i've had a number of

[0:22:42] Voice 1: conversations with your architect or your your designer as well where things where one drawing

[0:22:49] Voice 1: doesn't align with another drawing like the original drawings where she had like the steps

[0:22:56] Voice 1: up in the setback for part of the drawings but then or she had these brick she had these walls

[0:23:02] Voice 1: drawn as like interlocking allen block type walls as opposed to risics like stacked boulder approach

[0:23:08] Voice 1: So we are also, I think, challenged a little bit here by your architects.

[0:23:16] Voice 5: Big designer.

[0:23:19] Voice 1: Yes, sorry.

[0:23:20] Voice 1: Thank you.

[0:23:21] Voice 1: Stumbling on the words, but your designers, and I don't want to be flippant, but you're like their lack of consistency across their design pieces here.

[0:23:35] Voice 6: That was part of our fault because we, I guess we, we asked them to, you know, just mark out the basics for variants. And so that, so that was kind of probably part of our fault.

[0:23:50] Voice 1: But I guess, yeah, sorry, I guess the point I'm trying to make there, I'm not trying to derail your designer. It's just to Andrew's point, does this designer have the expertise to stand up and say that this design actually works on this site without all that engineering work to bolster that opinion?

[0:24:14] Voice 4: Or even to allow for a building permit application?

[0:24:18] Voice 4: what

[0:24:18] Voice 6: if we um what if we left the um what if we left the fill there and risic was okay with um

[0:24:25] Voice 6: with just they're okay with the two side retaining walls is that an option

[0:24:31] Voice 6: well it it

[0:24:33] Voice 5: looks like these walls have been built without building permit approval right and when

[0:24:39] Voice 5: one of the things that a building inspector will look at is how much soil is being retained

[0:24:44] Voice 5: And as Brad sort of hinted earlier, there's a number, like you're only allowed to retain a certain amount of soil before you need to have an engineered retaining wall.

[0:24:55] Voice 5: I believe the number is like four or five feet. It's pretty small.

[0:24:59] Voice 5: So if you're holding back more than that, you're unlikely to get a building permit issued for a site that includes those retaining walls.

[0:25:10] Voice 5: balls. One other issue that I have, and I don't want to, like, this is a good topic to talk about,

[0:25:16] Voice 5: but I want to also look at the survey that we've been provided. And I don't understand, and I think

[0:25:22] Voice 5: I'm not sure if Brad or Bert understands, I understand Brad's had some conversations with

[0:25:27] Voice 5: your designer. I don't understand why the 15 meter setback from the boundary of the ocean

[0:25:35] Voice 5: is such a radically different shape than the boundary of the ocean that's something that i

[0:25:42] Voice 5: have a hard time understanding on this survey so it it would be great for me to know if this

[0:25:50] Voice 5: setback line on the survey is the correct setback line how is that setback line generated and do we

[0:25:57] Voice 5: know that you even need a variance right because this here we have say a concave curve at the

[0:26:04] Voice 5: bottom and a convex curve at the top of the page it seems to me that those two should mirror one

[0:26:11] Voice 5: another if it is a 15 meter setback yeah

[0:26:15] Voice 6: i guess to that point andrew um i guess the main the main

[0:26:19] Voice 6: area is pretty accurate where the house is going to sit and where the deck is going to sit i guess

[0:26:24] Voice 6: to your point and just kind of quickly looking at it um the only where that would probably come

[0:26:30] Voice 6: into play a little bit would be the retaining wall as it goes past the septic tanks where

[0:26:35] Voice 6: there may be a portion of that that wouldn't be within the setback area but i you know i think

[0:26:42] Voice 6: it'd be relatively minor um but um but yeah i hear you we we always question that too but it did when

[0:26:49] Voice 6: we looked at it closer and took some measurements we're like well it really isn't going to make that

[0:26:54] Voice 6: much of a difference our main building area is right in front of the just very close to the

[0:26:59] Voice 6: the natural setback area within

[0:27:01] Voice 6: six or eight inches of kind of the distance so it really

[0:27:06] Voice 6: wouldn't it really wouldn't impact much other than maybe a small portion of the retaining wall

[0:27:11] Voice 6: as

[0:27:12] Voice 5: i'm looking at the here i'm looking at the plan that heather emailed us thank you this survey the

[0:27:18] Voice 5: screenshot of this survey from the supplements from when i believe they should likely the

[0:27:24] Voice 5: supplement from when you bought the property and when i look at the setback line that the

[0:27:28] Voice 5: surveyors indicated right up until somewhere between where it says 15.0 and where it says

[0:27:34] Voice 5: the word set that line there seems to follow the indicated present natural boundary but then past

[0:27:41] Voice 5: that it seems that that line which where the curve bends in looks to me like the curve should be

[0:27:46] Voice 5: bending out there and that it looks like you might have more buildable area than is indicated on this

[0:27:54] Voice 5: plan so that's you know that's what's confusing to me yeah burt

[0:28:00] Voice 5: wants to talk

[0:28:06] Voice 4: um well you know i did take some measurements and i i think because the 15 meter setback is

[0:28:14] Voice 4: determined by the surveyor on the survey plan um and when i did the measurements because it goes

[0:28:25] Voice 4: convex for the portion there because it because it comes from concave to convex i think that

[0:28:31] Voice 4: there's a an impact on what that setback is and i don't think it's too far off based on my

[0:28:36] Voice 4: measurement so um and as uh as kevin says i think the uh the part where the house is going to be

[0:28:43] Voice 4: located is reasonably accurate um what i i i was going to speak to the art or the sorry the

[0:28:50] Voice 4: designer's plans and the the elevations and how it fits into the lot um doesn't um does it isn't

[0:29:02] Voice 4: clear to me because the the basement floor is at 12.97 meters um which is about an excavation of

[0:29:10] Voice 4: about a meter and a half below the existing grade at the footprint of a house um and then it shows

[0:29:19] Voice 4: Shows that being at grade going out towards where the existing retaining wall is.

[0:29:24] Voice 4: And then how it fits in as you move east and west of the house is kind of confusing to me.

[0:29:33] Voice 4: So I think like a cross section of how that would work would help me rationalize how everything needs to fit together.

[0:29:40] Voice 4: I agree on the cantilever portions and how the structure will stand.

[0:29:46] Voice 4: And I can't speak for Andrew, but, you know, I would, I think that pushing the house away from the natural boundary and applying for variance towards the road.

[0:30:00] Voice 4: i would have an appetite to consider that so that you're not asking for a variance on the house

[0:30:07] Voice 4: itself and and it's pushing it away from the the um from that

[0:30:13] Voice 4: retaining wall and from the ocean

[0:30:14] Voice 4: which i think um from an environmental perspective would be um i i would i would

[0:30:21] Voice 4: have an easier time accepting that as a variance i think

[0:30:26] Voice 7: The setback to our neighbor's driveway, is that what you're saying?

[0:30:31] Voice 6: No, no, the cul-de-sac, I believe.

[0:30:34] Voice 6: The cul-de

[0:30:35] Voice 4: -sac, the original design, the original design which we looked at on site

[0:30:39] Voice 4: had the house parallel with the boundary a lot. And it

[0:30:43] Voice 4: resulted in an encroachment into the

[0:30:47] Voice 4: required setback against the cul-de-sac bulb.

[0:30:49] Voice 4: yeah

[0:30:50] Voice 2: yeah

[0:30:51] Voice 4: we we

[0:30:52] Voice 6: we take we yeah we i i'm not sure if i covered that beginning but we did

[0:30:57] Voice 6: we did take that off the off the variance because we i guess for two reasons um there was a previous

[0:31:04] Voice 6: variance for that that got turned down um for the previous uh lot owner um that we're aware of

[0:31:12] Voice 6: and and we were just trying to keep the house within the setback area i guess as we thought

[0:31:20] Voice 6: would be uh but yeah for those two reasons we we readjusted it and took it out of the

[0:31:27] Voice 6: cul-de-sac setback because of uh yeah failed variants ask um i'm not sure how long ago but

[0:31:35] Voice 6: the the neighbors i believe turned that one down so we just felt that we try to stay within the

[0:31:41] Voice 6: setback area with the house as much as possible um

[0:31:46] Voice 4: a setback area is the the 15 meters from the

[0:31:49] Voice 4: natural boundary is still the setback area so the compromise is that you're encroaching into

[0:31:55] Voice 4: the setback to the water as opposed to uh maybe just pivoting the house a little bit to have a

[0:32:02] Voice 4: more minor encroachment into the uh setback from the road um i

[0:32:07] Voice 6: have a it's just the it would just

[0:32:08] Voice 6: be the deck uh that it would just the it would have just been the deck area um bird if you look

[0:32:14] Voice 6: at the original plans i think you have them i think it's just a a smaller portion of the deck

[0:32:20] Voice 6: would have been in the um in the uh the setback area right um well

[0:32:25] Voice 4: except there's a part a portion

[0:32:27] Voice 4: of the house does encroach into the yeah it's only

[0:32:29] Voice 6: i think it's eight inches it's just the

[0:32:31] Voice 6: 13 inches it's just the kitchen bump out um it's very very minor i have

[0:32:38] Voice 5: a question here

[0:32:38] Voice 5: for brad just while we're talking looking at drawings of the house one thing that i don't

[0:32:44] Voice 5: think i see maybe it's on this page i don't see an overall hype listed for the house which is

[0:32:50] Voice 5: unusual to me

[0:32:51] Voice 3: it's

[0:32:52] Voice 5: looking like they're drawing sort of eight foot floors with a foot in it for

[0:32:56] Voice 5: structure so by my account the house appears from the right prelim draw drawing on prelim side

[0:33:04] Voice 5: side elevation to be about 36 feet tall to the top of the basement floor slab and then we're

[0:33:13] Voice 5: going to remove the retaining wall so we would have our natural grade drop considerably at that

[0:33:20] Voice 5: point. Does this design seem like the house is maybe over height to you? My understanding is

[0:33:27] Voice 5: that at the midpoint of this right per limb wall we are permitted a maximum of 32 feet

[0:33:35] Voice 5: from the lowest point of average or natural grade i

[0:33:41] Voice 1: think it averages out it takes uh

[0:33:45] Voice 1: when you're calculating height um i

[0:33:52] Voice 5: don't know if we average in yeah on north pender you do it's

[0:33:56] Voice 5: Do we? Okay.

[0:33:57] Voice 1: Height means the

[0:33:58] Voice 1: vertical distance between the highest point of a building or structure and the average natural grade.

[0:34:04] Voice 2: Yeah.

[0:34:07] Voice 5: We have to be careful, Heather and Kevin, to not call this person an architect.

[0:34:12] Voice 5: I don't believe they

[0:34:13] Voice 5: are a registered architect.

[0:34:14] Voice 5: I think they're just a designer, and that's a completely different distinction and a different part of the building code that they're enabled to use.

[0:34:22] Voice 2: Yeah, sorry.

[0:34:24] Voice 5: Yeah, this person has to only practice in the exclusion areas.

[0:34:28] Voice 6: What I was trying to say there is they did reach out to CRD and just confirm because we neighbors had run into issues, height issues that we're building.

[0:34:40] Voice 6: And so we were really worried about, you know, ensuring that the house height was maintained properly.

[0:34:46] Voice 6: properly and um and uh so we did ask them uh to double check with um the crd on on yeah

[0:34:56] Voice 5: it's

[0:34:57] Voice 5: islands trust that deals with height crd okay i guess

[0:35:00] Voice 5: sorry mine probably misspoke there i guess

[0:35:02] Voice 5: so

[0:35:02] Voice 1: so height is calculated using the natural grade and then taking the highest point at each

[0:35:11] Voice 1: each corner Andrew of a square building and averaging them so are

[0:35:16] Voice 5: we that's a that's a new

[0:35:18] Voice 5: definition of height then for north pender it

[0:35:21] Voice 1: is a new definition I think it's just been enacted in

[0:35:24] Voice 1: this new bylaw 224 okay so there is a drawing that shows that like point a b c d and then the

[0:35:31] Voice 1: calculation is a plus b plus c plus d divided by four equals height okay so if they have a

[0:35:39] a

[0:35:39] Voice 1: higher slope on the front but a lesser height on the back and

[0:35:45] Voice 3: the same on the

[0:35:46] Voice 1: sides but you're

[0:35:48] Voice 1: right uh eventually they will need to produce a building height that needs to be under nine meters

[0:35:53] Voice 1: or it uh would require variance as well but i think in this case given how the back part of

[0:35:59] Voice 1: the house the house towards the the road uh i think it would be but that calculation uh

[0:36:08] Voice 1: And so one thing you could do is apply for a building permit at this state, like defer your variance decision.

[0:36:19] Voice 1: The board members can pass a resolution here with some specific information that they're requiring.

[0:36:26] Voice 1: One thing you could do is start your application for a building permit, or at least go to the building permit inspection people and say, this is our proposed design.

[0:36:36] Voice 1: we really need to understand in particular what your perspective is around this unengineered

[0:36:43] Voice 1: retaining wall and what we should be doing with it can we keep it there if not can we remove it

[0:36:50] Voice 1: and build the structure without engineered wall or should we be looking at an engineered wall

[0:36:56] Voice 1: across the whole entire front face of that and then in my mind if you had an engineered retaining

[0:37:03] Voice 1: while bolstering all of that up it would give you more of a more certainty with respect to having a

[0:37:11] Voice 1: then a safe building space to actually put your house on of course recognizing all of this takes

[0:37:19] Voice 1: time and money and so that's

[0:37:23] Voice 5: that's a very good idea the local building inspector is great for

[0:37:28] Voice 5: for that kind of information.

[0:37:30] Voice 5: He's helped

[0:37:31] Voice 1: a lot of owner builders.

[0:37:32] Voice 1: Very approachable on Pender.

[0:37:35] Voice 1: Is that correct?

[0:37:36] Voice 5: That is Chris, yeah.

[0:37:38] Voice 5: To be able to look at your plans

[0:37:39] Voice 5: and sort of guide you through

[0:37:41] Voice 5: whether or not that's a good plan to submit,

[0:37:43] Voice 5: what other information might be needed.

[0:37:45] Voice 5: He might even be able to provide a letter

[0:37:47] Voice 5: for Islands Trust telling them

[0:37:51] Voice 5: all of sort of all of his requirements

[0:37:53] Voice 5: and whether or not this design could proceed.

[0:37:57] Voice 5: I think, I

[0:37:59] Voice 4: think, you know, by our discussion so far, I think you can tell that we are sympathetic to the fact that you have a challenging lot and that the variance that you're looking for is minor and there is some hardship.

[0:38:14] Voice 4: And so in the spirit of that, there's just some feedback we've provided that you might want to consider with some potential amendments to your design.

[0:38:25] Voice 4: And then as Brad and Andrew have said, you know, getting a permit application in process will help to clarify some of the concerns and thoughts that we've had.

[0:38:35] Voice 4: And you can sort of take all of those things into consideration on how you want to approach the next iteration of a request for a variance.

[0:38:42] Voice 4: Well,

[0:38:42] Voice 6: I think that's a great idea and we really appreciate that.

[0:38:45] Voice 6: We didn't know we could approach.

[0:38:46] Voice 6: We thought we had to

[0:38:47] Voice 6: have complete plans to get a building permit.

[0:38:52] Voice 6: it um so that um i think that's a great suggestion um we we have been um you know we have contacted

[0:38:59] Voice 6: chris in the past but it wasn't um he hasn't looked at the plans at all and i think that's a

[0:39:05] Voice 6: a great suggestion we've had our our builder who's been building on pender for 30 years um

[0:39:12] Voice 6: who

[0:39:13] Voice 5: is your builder uh

[0:39:15] Voice 6: baxter baxter construction

[0:39:16] Voice 5: brooke baxter yeah brooke yeah so he

[0:39:19] Voice 6: he um he's

[0:39:20] Voice 6: He's looked at the plans and but, you know, he's not, you know, until we provide more detailed plans, he's really not, you know, you know, he's really not giving much feedback other than, you know, just other than to see how this the variances go before we start moving forward.

[0:39:38] Voice 6: So, I mean, that's kind of, we kind of put a hold to everything, just not knowing that we could approach Chris or, or potentially get a building permit or partial building permit, I guess.

[0:39:51] Voice 6: or at

[0:39:51] Voice 1: least started an application underway

[0:39:53] Voice 6: yeah because

[0:39:55] Voice 1: um and so what that would then start to

[0:39:59] Voice 1: like from i think from a board perspective and a staff perspective uh what i'm hearing is that

[0:40:04] Voice 1: i think they want to work with you to find a solution for your your lot and your your

[0:40:12] Voice 1: challenging build uh there is a duty to get these variances right uh so that you're not back

[0:40:19] at

[0:40:19] Voice 1: the board a year from now saying well you know unfortunately we have to move the wall out

[0:40:25] Voice 1: so the more things the more certainty you can provide for yourselves at this stage the tidier

[0:40:33] Voice 1: it will be in the future and so if you can start to move towards a better understanding of if your

[0:40:40] Voice 1: design is feasible and chris will be available to quickly tell you i think if that engineered

[0:40:45] Voice 1: or that non-engineered portion can stay or not and he might even be willing to come visit the

[0:40:50] Voice 1: site with you he lives on north bender so uh i don't see why he couldn't find time to even come

[0:40:55] Voice 1: visit the site and have the same kind of conversation we had with you and that might

[0:40:59] Voice 1: trigger a whole bunch of different ideas uh and then you can come back to the board uh with that

[0:41:07] Voice 1: information in hand and uh and then i

[0:41:10] Voice 5: feel that would be a really valuable resource because when

[0:41:14] Voice 5: when I look at what your ask is, you're really not asking that much, right? The septic tanks,

[0:41:20] Voice 5: like I do have some concerns there. I think both of us do, but the rest of this stuff,

[0:41:24] Voice 5: you're asking for your construction of your dwelling within 14.67 meters of the natural

[0:41:31] Voice 5: boundary. That's like, you're asking us for less than a foot, like 30 some odd centimeters,

[0:41:37] Voice 5: or maybe just over a foot. You're asking to construct a retaining wall. Those are things

[0:41:43] Voice 5: that we see happen on pender they frequently we do need retaining walls built you're asking

[0:41:50] Voice 5: you know two retaining walls and then for two decks which again like these don't seem huge ask

[0:41:56] Voice 5: the last uh board of variance appeal that bert and i did looking at a man wanted to push a deck

[0:42:03] Voice 5: or an applicant wanted to push their deck out into a front setback and we we had accurate plans

[0:42:10] Voice 5: from him and were able to suggest to him that he could change where a couple of the deck support

[0:42:15] Voice 5: posts were located so that that deck wouldn't have as much visual weight and visual impact

[0:42:21] Voice 5: and sort of by doing that we i think reached a really good compromise with him but just for

[0:42:28] Voice 5: this application the state that it's currently and we don't have all of the details to be able

[0:42:33] Voice 5: to do that i feel like chris would really be able to help you develop that and understand what the

[0:42:38] Voice 5: the CRD's requirements would be that you'd be able to come back with a

[0:42:41] Voice 5: variance. And often when applicants come with a variance, they say, you know,

[0:42:46] Voice 5: we want to encroach on this part of the property and we'll understand there's a

[0:42:49] Voice 5: setback. And that setback is say, to get privacy from the neighbors.

[0:42:52] Voice 5: And the way that we're still producing privacy for the neighbors is, you know,

[0:42:56] Voice 5: not having windows facing into them, putting a tree.

[0:42:59] Voice 5: So you could come back with your variance and say like, look,

[0:43:01] Voice 5: we understand that there's a setback from the ocean and that exists for this

[0:43:05] Voice 5: and how we're doing that not typically numerically is by doing that right so

[0:43:12] Voice 5: that that might be

[0:43:13] Voice 5: helpful i don't know but i i feel like your ask is not huge it's a is a minor variance and i feel

[0:43:20] Voice 5: like neither bird or i want to say no to you because we want to keep this avenue open we just

[0:43:26] Voice 5: want to see a little bit more information oh

[0:43:29] Voice 6: we appreciate that um yeah i i um yeah i uh you know

[0:43:35] Voice 6: know, we definitely appreciate that and want to try to do what's right. Um, so we'll, um, I guess

[0:43:42] Voice 6: the, um, I guess we'd have to apply for variances again. Uh, I assume that if we tweak, um, if we

[0:43:51] Voice 6: find that we have to, if the septic tanks say are going to move three to somewhere between three

[0:43:57] Voice 6: and 10 feet up, and then we, we'd have to, we could push the retaining wall, you know, uh, three

[0:44:04] Voice 6: three or 10 feet out of, you know,

[0:44:08] Voice 6: closer outside of the boundary or not in the boundary,

[0:44:11] Voice 6: but from the water.

[0:44:12] Voice 6: So then we would reapply for those variances.

[0:44:17] Voice 6: I would say

[0:44:17] Voice 1: you would, yeah, I would say just to interject,

[0:44:20] Voice 1: I would say you wouldn't need to reapply.

[0:44:22] Voice 1: I think that they can defer a decision at this point and you can bring a new

[0:44:28] Voice 1: proposal forward in the same.

[0:44:30] Voice 1: it by them deferring a decision today it it it then leaves the file open uh versus uh if they

[0:44:41] Voice 1: yeah so you wouldn't have another fee to pay is where i'm heading well thank you

[0:44:45] Voice 6: is

[0:44:46] Voice 1: there

[0:44:47] Voice 5: is there a way we can sort of expedite something to brad because often people apply for

[0:44:52] Voice 5: a variance and it takes a long time to get heard and i feel like heather and kevin have done a lot

[0:44:57] Voice 5: of work to get to this point and it would be great if we could when they have more information yeah

[0:45:03] Voice 1: i mean

[0:45:03] Voice 1: you're now so familiar with this application and with the applicants themselves

[0:45:08] Voice 1: that uh i think they need to go away and do a little bit of homework and come back to us with

[0:45:14] Voice 1: uh uh uh an update uh and when they're ready to do that i would say that we could schedule

[0:45:21] Voice 1: or one of these hearings fairly quickly to-

[0:45:24] Voice 1: I also, I don't want to

[0:45:26] Voice 5: take up everyone's time,

[0:45:28] Voice 5: but I'm looking at this site plan.

[0:45:30] Voice 5: I don't know how Bert feels on this issue,

[0:45:32] Voice 5: but it does look on the site plan

[0:45:34] Voice 5: that there's really only one place

[0:45:36] Voice 5: you could put your house.

[0:45:37] Voice 5: So we would have to respect the variance

[0:45:39] Voice 5: to shuffle that around a bit.

[0:45:43] Voice 5: When I'm drawing a house or when I live in a house,

[0:45:46] Voice 5: I like to make sure that my septic tanks

[0:45:48] Voice 5: are located downhill from the house

[0:45:50] Voice 5: so I would feel that it's a valid argument to locate your septic tanks downhill from the house

[0:45:55] Voice 5: septic engineers from time to time will put a lift you know your own mini lift station

[0:45:59] Voice 5: you have to pump your sewage up but given how often power goes out given that we do need to

[0:46:06] Voice 5: be off grid time to time I think it's a very very valid argument that you might need to locate your

[0:46:11] Voice 5: septic tanks downhill from the house yeah

[0:46:15] Voice 6: I I guess what you mean by that Andrew is that the

[0:46:19] Voice 6: that would it would feed gravity feed into the septic field is that kind of yeah we we that would

[0:46:26] Voice 6: be ideal and i i hear you um but i don't know um because it has to be 10 feet away from the house

[0:46:36] Voice 6: and we've really as you as you know um there's not a lot of um it has to be at least three three

[0:46:42] Voice 6: feet away from the septic field 10 feet away from the house and the septic tanks are six to eight

[0:46:48] Voice 6: feet we would really be shrinking the house size probably another 10 feet length oh definitely

[0:46:55] Voice 5: definitely i wouldn't ask you to shrink the house size i'm just thinking that if you had to bring

[0:46:59] Voice 5: more information to the board and you wanted to have to justify where septic tanks were going that

[0:47:04] Voice 5: that might be an acceptable justification to say like look we we need to get these tanks in a place

[0:47:09] Voice 5: where we don't have to rely too much on a lift station or a pump station and where there is

[0:47:14] Voice 5: some ability for when the power is out for us to still flush our toilets so

[0:47:18] Voice 4: so just to be clear i

[0:47:20] Voice 4: think what andrew was saying is that you want to have the tanks downhill it's okay to pump to the

[0:47:26] Voice 4: disposal field oh my house operates

[0:47:29] Voice 4: sewage goes into the tank if the power is out my septic field

[0:47:35] Voice 4: is way higher and so it doesn't pump out but when the power comes back on then the trigger

[0:47:40] Voice 4: trigger it triggers it but i can still flush the toilets without any uh well

[0:47:43] Voice 6: thanks bert yeah sorry

[0:47:44] Voice 6: i misunderstood misunderstood all good yeah uh

[0:47:52] Voice 4: the so yeah i i think um we've got to a good place

[0:47:55] Voice 4: here i'm just wondering about um two things one is um you know with that um non-engineered wall

[0:48:02] Voice 4: if there you might want to talk to the engineers to see if there's a way to do some remedial work

[0:48:07] Voice 4: on it to make it be able to, you know, meet the requirements. You know, there might be something

[0:48:13] Voice 4: simple that can be done to solve that problem. I don't know. We're not engineers, but I do work

[0:48:20] Voice 4: with engineers, and I know they can be creative. The other part that I'm just wondering about that

[0:48:25] Voice 4: you brought up, Kevin, was that there was a previous application that was turned down for

[0:48:31] Voice 4: variance um for the setback to the road and you said that the neighbors uh didn't support that

[0:48:37] Voice 4: for the previous owners um so i'm just wondering i i think we saw an email from one neighbor but

[0:48:44] Voice 4: we didn't get it from the other neighbor um maybe this is a question for brad is there

[0:48:49] Voice 4: access to the previous application and reasons why um it was turned down for a setback issue

[0:48:58] Voice 4: yeah

[0:48:58] Voice 1: i think in my records i don't the only variance that has been applied for in our files

[0:49:06] Voice 1: has been in the early 2000s for the septic tank and that never proceeded it just the application

[0:49:14] Voice 1: was applied for there's notes from the planners seeking more information then at some point the

[0:49:21] Voice 1: file was just closed so i saw

[0:49:23] Voice 1: that the owner at that time uh was moving forward with both

[0:49:27] Voice 1: the variance and the island health approval and they got island health approval and just

[0:49:33] Voice 1: stopped moving forward on the variance portion but other than that there's no other variance

[0:49:37] Voice 1: applications in our records with respect to uh so

[0:49:41] Voice 6: that's interesting

[0:49:43] Voice 6: uh maybe it was just maybe he

[0:49:45] Voice 6: approached the neighbors could have

[0:49:47] Voice 1: been something as who

[0:49:48] Voice 6: knows how the story

[0:49:49] Voice 1: changes over time but

[0:49:51] Voice 1: that

[0:49:51] Voice 7: is that is yeah

[0:49:53] Voice 7: the other neighbors we heard from them this morning and they're just

[0:49:57] Voice 7: on vacation but they're sending you another letter as well so that's

[0:50:00] Voice 5: good this

[0:50:02] Voice 5: is a great

[0:50:02] Voice 5: letter to have that your neighbors are supportive i don't really need to hear about anyone who may

[0:50:07] Voice 5: not be supportive because officially we haven't really heard that so i'm fine to just assume that

[0:50:12] Voice 5: all the neighbors love it there are some people on island who live far away who have concerns for

[0:50:18] Voice 5: the whales as i and we all do but at the end of the day we need to figure out a way that heather

[0:50:25] Voice 5: and Kevin can build a house on the residential property

[0:50:28] Voice 5: that they've purchased.

[0:50:29] Voice 2: Absolutely.

[0:50:31] Voice 5: Can

[0:50:31] Voice 6: I ask one quick question?

[0:50:33] Voice 6: And I appreciate that means a lot,

[0:50:37] Voice 6: but do you want us to pursue,

[0:50:39] Voice 6: like I know to your point,

[0:50:41] Voice 6: like do you want us,

[0:50:42] Voice 6: do you see a huge advantage in pursuing the setback

[0:50:47] Voice 6: into the cul-de-sac area?

[0:50:48] Voice 6: Like, is it something that we need to focus on?

[0:50:54] Voice 6: I

[0:50:54] Voice 4: would say, and this is just my opinion, but I think if you can respect the setback to the ocean more than the setback to the road, I think that I would be okay with that.

[0:51:08] Voice 4: So then if you had support from the neighbors to just keep it a little bit further from the natural boundary, a little bit further back, and do less disturbance of the existing retaining so that there's not so much disturbance within that setback, that just makes me feel more comfortable with the whole application.

[0:51:27] Voice 4: So I'm just saying you could don't close the door on that when you're looking at your design and, you know, you get feedback from Chris and you, you know, you think, well, he says we can do this or that.

[0:51:39] Voice 4: It's an opportunity for you to consider. It's not, I would say, don't do, don't not do an encroachment into that setback just because of the anecdotal information you've got so far.

[0:51:52] Voice 4: If you want to move it back, you can make the application for that variance.

[0:51:55] Voice 4: else

[0:51:56] Voice 6: okay well good to good to know that was kind of my it was kind of my fault that we twisted the

[0:52:01] Voice 6: house i thought it was i thought it would it

[0:52:05] Voice 7: seemed like one less ask yeah trying

[0:52:07] Voice 7: to not ask

[0:52:08] Voice 7: but yeah we can we can move it back for sure i

[0:52:12] Voice 5: think you should locate the house on the property

[0:52:14] Voice 5: how you want to live on the property yes so that's

[0:52:18] Voice 4: what i'm trying to say yeah

[0:52:19] Voice 5: don't don't worry too

[0:52:21] Voice 5: much about fitting in the oddly drawn lines and make sure that you know it's some it fits the way

[0:52:30] Voice 5: you want to live think about i believe that under zoning you need to provide two parking spaces

[0:52:35] Voice 5: on the property so think about like where you'll park your car and how you'll walk in

[0:52:40] Voice 5: but you do have a storage shed which is shown on the drawings it's fairly small brad am i wrong

[0:52:47] Voice 5: wrong in thinking that there is a size at which a storage shed is not considered a building and

[0:52:54] Voice 5: might be exempt from zoning or is that not a thing anymore uh

[0:52:58] Voice 1: the only real like other than sighting

[0:53:01] Voice 1: uh with respect to lot coverage is the only real um how accessory buildings are managed is through

[0:53:09] Voice 1: lot coverage so typically lot coverage is 20 per 25 so very seldom do you ever run up against uh

[0:53:16] Voice 1: Uh, uh, yeah, but,

[0:53:19] Voice 5: but,

[0:53:20] Voice 1: but, but any structure is, is, is

[0:53:24] Voice 5: 10 by 10 blip that's at the beginning

[0:53:26] Voice 5: of the building code. You close

[0:53:27] Voice 5: the door on that.

[0:53:28] Voice 1: Even 10 by 10, it's still a structure

[0:53:30] Voice 1: with respect to our bylaws. It's the 10 by 10 is really around if you need a, uh, a building

[0:53:36] Voice 1: permit or not. And I always caution that it's not only 10 by 10. It's also, if there's no

[0:53:42] Voice 1: electrical there's no water there's no all of those things even if it's eight by eight would

[0:53:47] Voice 1: trigger a building permit so i always point

[0:53:49] Voice 1: you always point applicants to talk to building

[0:53:52] Voice 1: inspection because it's more complex than that but but it is

[0:53:55] Voice 1: but any any size structure or building

[0:54:00] Voice 1: is is considered a building with respect to our

[0:54:02] Voice 1: bylaws and

[0:54:03] Voice 6: that's the that's the feedback that we

[0:54:05] Voice 6: got from um from chris um from some of the contractors that have been dealing with chris

[0:54:10] Voice 6: slightly even though it's a it's a shed 8 by 12 shed that it that he's kind of pushing that it

[0:54:17] Voice 6: falls within the within that three meter setback which is relatively new i think um but they

[0:54:24] Voice 5: yeah

[0:54:25] Voice 5: they used to kind of let them go there was a big argument about a property on galleon years and

[0:54:30] Voice 5: years ago some people bought it but a shed right close to it and they i think at that point

[0:54:35] Voice 5: successfully proved that it was not a building and didn't apply so yeah

[0:54:40] Voice 1: they probably changed

[0:54:41] Voice 1: the definition of structure after that they

[0:54:43] Voice 5: might have i'm i'm looking at this and just saying like

[0:54:46] Voice 5: i would love heather and camera to have a place they can drive in and walk right up to their

[0:54:50] Voice 5: residence and all these things but that's that's more design stuff yeah

[0:54:54] Voice 1: you know like

[0:54:57] Voice 1: what i

[0:54:58] Voice 1: would say to not speaking for the board but

[0:55:01] Voice 1: if you've adjusted your siting to also be encroaching into that front lot setback for

[0:55:09] Voice 1: example it doesn't necessarily trigger it from a minor to a major because you're affecting two

[0:55:15] Voice 1: setbacks it can still be

[0:55:17] Voice 1: considered a minor yes and

[0:55:19] Voice 1: and if your solution is reducing impacts to

[0:55:24] Voice 1: the ocean front or you know any other concerns then those are all about things i am crafting

[0:55:31] Voice 1: and trying to craft a motion here and what I'm writing is and I'll send this to you so that

[0:55:36] Voice 1: Andrew and Bert can consider that the North Pender board of variance defers the decision

[0:55:41] Voice 1: on application blah blah blah and seeks the following additional information from the

[0:55:46] Voice 1: applicant so the one thing I do have here is clarity from the capital regional district

[0:55:50] Voice 1: building inspection department and RISEC engineering on what is the best approach

[0:55:54] Voice 1: to dealing with the existing non-engineered portion of the retaining wall if that sounds

[0:56:00] Voice 1: reasonable. Is there anything else that you are seeking specific information on? Is there

[0:56:07] Voice 1: something around the septic tanks? I'm not sure where you've landed there with respect to

[0:56:13] Voice 1: if you expect either those to be moved or if retained

[0:56:18] Voice 5: in the same

[0:56:18] Voice 1: place, replaced with plastic

[0:56:21] Voice 1: tanks? No,

[0:56:22] Voice 5: I think that they've done a lot of due diligence in that and they're being very

[0:56:25] Voice 5: thoughtful in how they approach their tanks. So I think that that's something that we could have as

[0:56:28] Voice 5: as a negotiated discussion.

[0:56:30] Voice 5: I'm not sure how to word that I would like to see

[0:56:33] Voice 5: like a clearer resolution of the building

[0:56:35] Voice 5: and maybe some idea from CRD that the building plans

[0:56:40] Voice 5: are appropriate and might be accepted, right?

[0:56:43] Voice 5: Just so that we can have that level of discussion of like,

[0:56:45] Voice 5: this is where a deck post goes

[0:56:46] Voice 5: and this is what that basement door opens out onto

[0:56:49] Voice 5: and just kind of get that idea, right?

[0:56:52] Voice 4: Well, yeah, so how does

[0:56:53] Voice 4: a building permit,

[0:56:54] Voice 4: because Brad, you mentioned building permit application,

[0:56:57] Voice 4: but they're going to get some feedback on the building permit.

[0:57:01] Voice 4: So would we want to see a building permit issued for this or how far down

[0:57:07] Voice 4: that road?

[0:57:08] Voice 1: I think that you would need the variance before they can issue the permit,

[0:57:14] Voice 1: but they could at least have those conversations with the CRD one around

[0:57:19] Voice 1: that engineered wall.

[0:57:20] Voice 1: And two of what I'm just starting to write your clarity from the capital

[0:57:24] Voice 1: original building inspection on whether the on whether the proposed building design is feasible

[0:57:29] Voice 1: and uh something along those lines would

[0:57:34] Voice 2: we really good

[0:57:37] Voice 4: to have an application

[0:57:41] Voice 4: application i

[0:57:42] Voice 1: think what i would recommend that the applicants do is is start their application

[0:57:47] Voice 1: understanding that they're going to need this variance because the crd wouldn't move forward

[0:57:51] Voice 1: past you needing variants anyways but they could at least because they're going to have to start

[0:57:58] Voice 1: their application and their application could morph over time but at least they can get in the

[0:58:03] Voice 1: door and then they can say we have a an active application open we also have an active variants

[0:58:11] Voice 1: application open and we would now that we have our our application open we would like to arrange a

[0:58:19] Voice 1: meeting with Chris to sit down, talk about our building plans, talk about the concerns that the

[0:58:24] Voice 1: board has raised, and perhaps even invite Chris out to do a site visit so that he can have some

[0:58:30] Voice 1: on site. But

[0:58:31] Voice 5: I don't think they need to have a building permit application. And my reasoning

[0:58:36] Voice 5: for

[0:58:36] Voice 1: saying... Not necessarily, but it doesn't hurt if they started that.

[0:58:39] Voice 5: It doesn't hurt, but CRD has

[0:58:41] Voice 5: gotten busier than they used to be, and they now won't take a building permit application until

[0:58:46] Voice 5: they have all of their things which would be like engineer drawings and all that engineered drawing

[0:58:51] Voice 5: so i don't want these guys to have to go and spend all sorts of money on engineered drawings

[0:58:55] Voice 5: then come to us and we say change this or change that i would like to see like building plans that

[0:59:00] Voice 5: are sufficiently resolved that they could be taken in but recently chris sort of won't take them in

[0:59:05] Voice 5: until you get a structural engineer to design the structure they might have to have like a civil

[0:59:10] Voice 5: engineer god knows who else chris might ask them to have to do these things heather and cameron

[0:59:17] Voice 5: can weigh whether or not that's a good idea that they do those things but sorry heather and kevin

[0:59:21] Voice 5: but just to get a variance i don't think they need to provide a structural drawing agreed right so

[0:59:30] Voice 5: i

[0:59:30] Voice 4: just wanted some clarity around that that's fine yeah carry on with your and then i guess to

[0:59:40] Voice 5: Just a word to the applicant is to remember that it's all a negotiation.

[0:59:44] Voice 5: So we've seen letters from the community where people are saying, hey, guys, stay away from the ocean.

[0:59:50] Voice 5: Keep the ocean looking pristine.

[0:59:51] Voice 5: And the applicants might decide that, oh, well, in order to keep the ocean looking pristine, we have to build back.

[0:59:59] Voice 5: And that might.

[1:00:00] Voice 5: provide a very good reason to encroach more significantly than a deck going a foot into the

[1:00:07] Voice 5: front setback to say, look, in order to maintain the front setback, we're pushing things back on

[1:00:13] Voice 5: site. We're putting this shed over here. We've got our parking spot there. We need to do all

[1:00:17] Voice 5: of this to protect the ocean. We understand that these setbacks from the neighbors and from the

[1:00:24] Voice 5: the street are to ensure their privacy and to make sure we're not overlooking them. And this is how

[1:00:30] Voice 5: we ensure privacy and that we're not overlooking the street in ways other than simply a numeric

[1:00:36] Voice 5: distance from a random line on a plan.

[1:00:40] Voice 6: Agreed. Can I ask a quick question? And I appreciate all

[1:00:44] Voice 6: that feedback. It's great. But if we just was kind of listening to you talk, Andrew, and Chris is

[1:00:52] Voice 6: quite busy and is really not you know looking at things without engineered drawings is if we can't

[1:01:00] Voice 6: get much out of chris um could we fall back on on baxter construction for some feedback um like i'm

[1:01:09] Voice 6: just wondering if chris if we can't you know if we can't get much like i said if we can't get

[1:01:13] Voice 6: much out of chris can we can we fall back on baxter i mean ultimately we've tried both get

[1:01:20] Voice 6: get them both on the site because i know they work a lot together obviously they yeah brook baxter is

[1:01:25] Voice 6: like he's very

[1:01:27] Voice 5: like he knows what he's doing if he says something is buildable then it's probably

[1:01:32] Voice 5: buildable chris often had he has office hours and people will

[1:01:36] Voice 5: walk in and just sit down and chat with

[1:01:38] Voice 5: him about their plans and

[1:01:40] Voice 1: what i would that was my going to be my suggestion is in my experience

[1:01:44] Voice 1: if you can pin chris down he's he's super approachable so if you can find some time in

[1:01:50] Voice 1: those office hours to just go in with your plans and have a discussion with him he's uh he's yeah

[1:01:56] Voice 1: he's really good that way yeah print them out

[1:01:59] Voice 5: carry a big red pen in yeah yeah

[1:02:01] Voice 3: he's right at

[1:02:03] Voice 5: the driftwood office there

[1:02:04] Voice 3: oh yeah

[1:02:05] Voice 5: and then he does

[1:02:07] Voice 5: post office hours on his door i think he's

[1:02:10] Voice 1: on friday mornings or he's in

[1:02:13] Voice 1: what he's in for a few few hours a few times a week and the best

[1:02:17] Voice 1: way to get him is just to go bang on the door and say hi chris can we have a few minutes to talk

[1:02:23] Voice 1: and he's he he he's he's uh he's a really approachable guy so yeah

[1:02:29] Voice 5: he's been working

[1:02:30] Voice 5: with owner builders forever on this island so he'll be happy to sit down and walk you through

[1:02:35] Voice 5: what you need to do and how to get to the finish line

[1:02:39] Voice 6: great well it's good to good to know

[1:02:44] Voice 6: It, yeah, it can be a bit overwhelming with every, you know, with the different, you know,

[1:02:55] Voice 6: with CRD and Island Trust and the health region and some of the different boards, it's kind

[1:03:00] Voice 6: of hard to kind of, so yeah, it'd be great to be able to sit down and actually kind of

[1:03:05] Voice 6: walk through with him and get feedback.

[1:03:08] Voice 6: So yeah, that's a really good suggestion.

[1:03:10] Voice 6: So thank you.

[1:03:11] Voice 6: completely

[1:03:11] Voice 5: like it's most people don't do this more than once in their lives you're asking right

[1:03:17] Voice 5: you're going to spend all of the money that you have now and most of the money that you'll have

[1:03:21] Voice 5: for the next 25 years we want to make sure that you get it right and you end up with something

[1:03:26] Voice 5: that you love and are proud of yeah

[1:03:28] Voice 2: appreciate that love

[1:03:30] Voice 5: to love to help that

[1:03:31] Voice 2: happen yeah and

[1:03:35] Voice 5: i brad i just read your resolutions and i'm very happy with those

[1:03:38] Voice 5: those bird

[1:03:39] Voice 5: if you've had a chance to read them do

[1:03:41] Voice 4: they come by email yeah i just sent

[1:03:43] Voice 5: an email to

[1:03:44] Voice 5: you heather and kevin are you feeling that this is fair and a good way to proceed what are your

[1:03:53] Voice 5: thoughts on

[1:03:54] Voice 5: this yeah it's not the answer you wanted today but i hope we give you something

[1:03:58] Voice 5: and some hope yeah

[1:04:00] Voice 6: you're you're bang on there andrew i i think um obviously it would have been

[1:04:04] Voice 6: great if you would have said yes no problem go forward and um you know we can kind of move to

[1:04:10] Voice 6: the next step um but um you know we we understand the the concerns around the septic tanks and and

[1:04:18] Voice 6: you know do agree and and um and and appreciate the feedback i guess our concern and you've kind

[1:04:26] Voice 6: of alleviated that a bit is just how long the process can take sometimes and i think you

[1:04:31] Voice 6: we're open to expediting you know potentially expediting um expediting the process and and

[1:04:38] Voice 6: deferring it so that we don't have to keep out shelling money out and and we really appreciate

[1:04:44] Voice 6: that um so you know um and from my perspective and heather can speak for herself i i'm really

[1:04:52] Voice 6: appreciative of your guys's um feedback and openness to uh this process and uh we'll do what

[1:05:00] Voice 6: we can to to make it work so yeah

[1:05:03] Voice 1: i i would read i can just say that i really appreciate your

[1:05:07] Voice 1: diligence as well and in in wanting to work through this and uh andrew's right you only

[1:05:12] Voice 1: hopefully need to do this once in your life and in my experience with these complex processes that

[1:05:17] Voice 1: uh the more diligence you do now the better off you will be in the long run because you won't be

[1:05:24] Voice 1: be in a place a year and a half from now where you're like you know f i wish we had thought

[1:05:31] Voice 1: about that unengineered wall portion and now we're back seeking variance again on something

[1:05:35] Voice 1: different so in my mind that under that portion of unengineered wall there is the biggest question

[1:05:40] Voice 1: in my mind that should be addressed uh because i'm really skeptical as to whether building

[1:05:45] Voice 1: inspection would be willing to approve a design that in in some sense kind of relies on that

[1:05:52] Voice 1: unengineered wall for holding back a big chunk of fill there um and so that would be the biggest

[1:05:58] Voice 1: question i have so i just forwarded you the resolutions that uh at the uh trustees or or

[1:06:05] Voice 1: the board members are about to pass here so uh andrew if you're comfortable with that i would

[1:06:09] Voice 1: i would welcome you to uh table that resolution and then burke can second it and then you can

[1:06:14] Voice 1: vote on it and then that will give the applicant some clear direction on the two things you're

[1:06:20] Voice 1: asking for i left out the septic piece because from what i'm hearing uh in the conversation

[1:06:25] Voice 1: i think you're reasonably comfortable to leave the septic as is i

[1:06:34] Voice 5: think that yeah they'll

[1:06:35] Voice 5: we'll re-look at the septic when they come with the next application i feel like the next

[1:06:40] Voice 5: application might even look a bit different i would suggest that these applicants should

[1:06:46] Voice 5: should ask for what they want, not what they think they can get.

[1:06:51] Voice 5: And

[1:06:52] Voice 1: I guess what I would put back to you then,

[1:06:55] Voice 1: is there something very specific you want to add as a number three with respect to septic?

[1:07:02] Voice 5: No, no.

[1:07:03] Voice 5: I was thinking that, like, I don't know if it's possible to add a way that, like,

[1:07:08] Voice 5: I personally feel that Zoom is incredibly convenient.

[1:07:13] Voice 5: And once we get these things, I'm happy to sit down on Zoom and go over with these guys again. I

[1:07:18] Voice 5: don't know if there's a way we can suggest that we might be able to expedite this process or if that's something we more just leave to the Machinery Violence Trust. But

[1:07:26] Voice 5: yeah, I really want to emphasize that I'm super happy to sit down and go over these anytime, anywhere.

[1:07:33] Voice 5: where and

[1:07:34] Voice 1: what i would say also is that as a quorum you can't meet and discuss but you could

[1:07:40] Voice 1: have an individual conversation with andrew or bert uh at any point without having to have a

[1:07:48] Voice 1: formal like yeah you i'd

[1:07:51] Voice 5: want to be personally i'd want to be careful and make i don't i want

[1:07:55] Voice 5: to seem non-biased like

[1:07:56] Voice 5: heather and cameron sorry i keep calling you heather and cameron

[1:07:59] Voice 5: heather and kevin seem great people uh i don't want to like much of i'd love to be friends and

[1:08:05] Voice 5: hang out and have beers on your patio and talk about your project i don't want to be seen to be

[1:08:10] Voice 5: yeah biased because we became pals like

[1:08:13] Voice 3: totally fair work

[1:08:14] Voice 5: quickly to get them their resolution

[1:08:16] Voice 5: so that then we can go have beers on their patio i

[1:08:19] Voice 4: think with regard to the septic tank issue i

[1:08:23] Voice 4: mean we've talked about both the pros and cons of replacing them and that's now up to uh heather

[1:08:29] Voice 4: and kevin to consider and we don't have

[1:08:31] Voice 4: to have that in the resolution sounds

[1:08:33] Voice 1: good so i'll i'll

[1:08:34] Voice 1: invite you then to consider that resolution and i think then we can look to close the meeting if

[1:08:39] Voice 1: unless we

[1:08:40] Voice 5: make a motion to pass that resolution is that correct so

[1:08:42] Voice 1: you would you would basically

[1:08:44] Voice 1: read you would read that motion and then uh okay and then uh bert can so

[1:08:54] Voice 5: i'll make a motion to

[1:08:56] Voice 5: pass the resolution that the north pender board of variance defers a decision on application

[1:09:03] Voice 5: npbov2023.1 cameron and seeks the following additional information from the applicant

[1:09:08] Voice 5: one clarity from the capital regional district building inspection department and ryzic

[1:09:13] Voice 5: engineering on what is the best approach to dealing with the existing non-engineered portion

[1:09:17] Voice 5: of the retaining wall and two clarity from the capital regional district building inspection

[1:09:22] Voice 5: on whether the proposed building design and siting is generally feasible from a building inspection perspective.

[1:09:30] Voice 1: And then you would

[1:09:31] Voice 1: second that? Yeah, perfect. And then you would call for a vote?

[1:09:37] Voice 2: Vote in favor.

[1:09:39] Voice 1: Yeah.

[1:09:42] Voice 1: So approved by consent. Great. And then, Heather and Kevin, you have some homework now.

[1:09:52] Voice 1: uh you can touch base with me if you have any questions uh i could sit down with chris if you

[1:09:58] Voice 1: want to do that if you need me for any of those technical discussions and then uh once you get

[1:10:06] Voice 1: some further clarity on those items and you have a revised or updated plan to come back we can then

[1:10:13] Voice 1: schedule another meeting and i and uh and go from there that's

[1:10:19] Voice 4: right perfect yeah thank you thank

[1:10:20] Voice 5: you thank you guys so much i hope to see you really soon yeah

[1:10:24] Voice 4: good luck with it yeah we'll

[1:10:27] Voice 4: see you

[1:10:27] Voice 2: guys okay

[1:10:28] Voice 1: good thank you everyone have a good afternoon thank you bye-bye bye

North Pender Board of Variance     
Minutes of a Hearing   
July 26, 2023 ADOPTED 1 of 3 
 
North Pender Island Board of Variance 
Minutes of a Hearing 
 
 
 
Members Present: Andrew MacLean, BOV Member (Acting Chair) 
Bert Hol, BOV Member 
 
Staff Present: 
 
Brad Smith, Island Planner 
Sarah Shugar, Recorder 
Applicants: Heather Cameron 
Kevin Zembik 
 
These minutes follow the order of the agenda although the sequence may have varied. The electronic 
meeting was live streamed, recorded, and made available for public viewing. 
 
1. CALL TO ORDER 
 
Planner Smith called the meeting to order at 11:02 a.m.  
 
By general consent, the Board of Variance delegated Member MacLean to be Acting 
Chair for the meeting. 
 
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 
 
By general consent, the agenda was approved as presented. 
 
3. MINUTES 
 
 3.1 North Pender Board of Variance Minutes Dated June 13, 2023 (for Adoption) 
 
By general consent, the Board of Variance meeting minutes of June 13, 2023 were 
adopted as presented. 
 
4. UPDATE FROM SECRETARY 
 
 Planner Smith reported the Board of Variance members attended a site visit at 1604 Chart Drive, 
Pender Island on July 24, 2023. 
  
  
Date: 
Location: 
July 26, 2023 
Electronic Meeting (Zoom Webinar) 
A D O P T E D 

 
North Pender Board of Variance     
Minutes of a Hearing   
July 26, 2023 ADOPTED 2 of 3 
 
5. APPLICATIONS 
 
5.1  NP-BOV-2023.1 (Cameron) - Staff Report 
Planner Smith presented a summary of the staff report dated July 26, 2023 regarding an 
appeal to the Board of Variance to vary the North Pender Island Land Use Bylaw No. 
224, 2023 (LUB) to permit the construction of a new dwelling and decks along with 
associated retaining walls within the 15 metre setback from the natural boundary of the 
sea, and to legalize two existing concrete septic tanks currently sited within this same 15 
metre setback. This application is being made under Section 540 (a) (i) of the Local 
Government Act for a variance to a bylaw respecting the siting, size or dimensions of a 
building or other structure.  
Applicants Cameron and Zembik spoke to the application.  
In discussion, the following items were noted: 
 Concern was expressed regarding the siting of the septic tanks and the potential for 
impacts to the ocean. Concern was expressed whether a septic pump out truck 
could reach the septic tanks at the current proposed location. The applicant advised 
the septic tanks could potentially be moved and plastic tanks could be installed. The 
applicant advised the neighbor has offered to use their driveway to access the septic 
tanks. It was also added that the preferred design for septic tanks is to be 
downgrade from the house due to power outages etc. Concern was expressed 
regarding the age of the septic tanks. 
 It was noted that retaining walls are used to hold back soil although would not 
provide protection from runoff into the ocean. The existing retaining wall looks like 
it may need to be raised to contain the sand in the disposal field. Planner Smith 
advised the applicant could ask Ryzuk Engineering to design an engineered retaining 
wall in between the engineered portions of the retaining wall. 
 Concern was expressed that there are too many unknown variables in the 
application at this point including the deck design and whether the current house 
design is possible on this building site. The applicants advised the cantilevered deck 
section would be approximately 0.6 m wide 
 Concern was expressed that the 15 metre setback is not drawn consistently on the 
site plan in respect of the current natural boundary of the sea and there may be 
more buildable area than is shown on the site plan. There was a question how the 
setback line was generated. The applicants advised if the setback mirrored the 
shape of the boundary of the sea it would not have much of an impact on the 
building site setbacks. 
 Support was expressed to move the building site further from the boundary of the 
sea and closer to the road. The applicants advised they removed that option from 
the variance but will reconsider. 
 There was a question regarding the overall height of the proposed building and that 
the drawing appears to be approximately 10-11 m tall. Planner Smith advised the 
average height as measured by the bylaw provision appears under the permitted 
height of 9 meters. The applicants reaffirmed the designer confirmed the height is 
allowed when the bylaw formula is applied. 
 Planner Smith recommended the applicants seek input from the Capital Regional 

 
North Pender Board of Variance     
Minutes of a Hearing   
July 26, 2023 ADOPTED 3 of 3 
District regarding the building plans and requirements for the retaining walls 
 The applicants asked if they should look into the option to reduce the setback from 
the road. A BOV member expressed support for considering reducing the setback 
from the road to allow more space from the boundary of the sea 
 There was a question regarding the storage shed. Planner Smith advised all 
‘permanent’ structures are subject to zoning and are considered as a building and 
calculated in the total lot coverage. 
 Support was expressed that the applicants have done a lot of work to address the 
concerns. The BOV would like to work with the applicants and expressed that the 
requested variances are relatively minor although more certainty is needed 
regarding whether the proposed building design is feasible on the site.  
 
NP-BOV-2023-02 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
That the North Pender Board of Variance defer a decision on application NP-
BOV-2023.1 (Cameron) and seek the following additional information from the 
applicant: 
a) Clarity from the Capital Regional District Building Inspection department and 
Ryzuk Engineering on what is the best approach to dealing with the existing 
non-engineered portion of the retaining wall; and 
b) Clarity from the Capital Regional District Building Inspection department on 
whether the proposed building design and siting is generally feasible from a 
building inspection perspective. 
CARRIED 
 
6. ADJOURNMENT 
 
By general consent, the meeting was adjourned at 12:25 p.m. 
 
 
 
                
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