North Pender Island Local Trust Committee regular meeting, September 13, 2023

[0:00:05] Voice 3: Brad,

[0:00:07] Trustee MacLean: do you want to kick it off for us or do you want me to talk?

[0:00:10] Voice 4: I think it's best to you as the chair do that.

[0:00:12] Trustee MacLean: Okay, so we can do a call to order at 10.02 a.m.

[0:00:21] Trustee MacLean: I believe our first order of business would be the approval of the agenda

[0:00:26] Trustee MacLean: and approval of the minutes of the last meeting.

[0:00:30] Voice 3: Correct.

[0:00:31] Voice 3: I guess

[0:00:31] Trustee MacLean: we can do

[0:00:32] Voice 3: that by consensus.

[0:00:34] Voice 6: Awesome.

[0:00:36] Voice 6: I agree.

[0:00:38] Voice 6: And I'm going to hang up my phone.

[0:00:39] Voice 6: and progress

[0:00:40] Voice 11: awesome

[0:00:42] Trustee MacLean: it's looking like it's two to one versus andrew at the moment

[0:00:53] Voice 6: all

[0:00:54] Planner Smith (probable): right colleen they're just going to work through a bit of regular business here and

[0:00:57] Planner Smith (probable): then they'll get to your application okay

[0:00:59] Trustee MacLean: thanks so we've approved the agenda by consensus we can

[0:01:05] Trustee MacLean: approve the minutes i believe also by consensus correct burt correct

[0:01:12] Voice 6: awesome you need

[0:01:14] Planner Smith (probable): to make a

[0:01:14] Planner Smith (probable): motion for each for okay or

[0:01:17] Planner Smith (probable): the minutes that you need to uh and

[0:01:20] Trustee MacLean: bert has to make the motion

[0:01:21] Trustee MacLean: correct okay no either of

[0:01:23] Planner Smith (probable): you can make the motion then you someone seconds it and then you vote on

[0:01:27] Planner Smith (probable): it

[0:01:28] Trustee MacLean: okay

[0:01:29] Planner Smith (probable): i'll make sure you just the

[0:01:30] Trustee MacLean: agenda seconds i'll make a motion to approve the minute second

[0:01:38] Trustee MacLean: we can get an update from Secretary.

[0:01:41] Trustee MacLean: Brad, you did that last time.

[0:01:43] Planner Smith (probable): Yeah, so now we can work through our application here.

[0:01:46] Planner Smith (probable): We have our applicants here, Colleen Jones,

[0:01:49] Planner Smith (probable): and I'm not sure, Ken, is it Ken Jones?

[0:01:52] Voice 8: No, it's Tom.

[0:01:54] Planner Smith (probable): Sorry.

[0:01:55] Planner Smith (probable): Sorry, Tom.

[0:01:57] Planner Smith (probable): I saw, okay.

[0:02:00] Planner Smith (probable): So we have three applicants on the line here, is that right?

[0:02:05] Voice 8: I'm working with the Congress on the project.

[0:02:08] Voice 8: it you're

[0:02:09] Planner Smith (probable): the consultant or the the architect or designer okay thank you for that clarification

[0:02:16] Planner Smith (probable): uh so uh the board here has a application before them for uh uh seeking variants for

[0:02:24] Planner Smith (probable): uh the property located at 1205 bridges road uh the property owners is seeking to permit

[0:02:32] Planner Smith (probable): to permit an amendment or a variance

[0:02:36] Planner Smith (probable): to the North Pender Island and use bylaw number 224

[0:02:39] Planner Smith (probable): to prevent modifications to the existing legal

[0:02:42] Planner Smith (probable): non-conforming dwelling to enclose part of the covered deck

[0:02:45] Planner Smith (probable): that is located within the existing roof line

[0:02:49] Planner Smith (probable): and is sited within 0.79 meters of an interior side lot line.

[0:02:55] Planner Smith (probable): So just speaking to the applicant's rationale,

[0:02:58] Planner Smith (probable): they've provided a letter to the board,

[0:03:00] Planner Smith (probable): which is included in your agenda package the goal of the applicant is to renovate their home to age

[0:03:06] Planner Smith (probable): in place they state their current hallways and doorways are not wide enough to enable

[0:03:10] Planner Smith (probable): accessibility and the current master bedroom and bathroom are also too small for accommodation of

[0:03:16] Planner Smith (probable): accessibility that the renovation would improve overall energy efficiency and safety in the house

[0:03:22] Planner Smith (probable): and remove the furnace the fuel oil tank for heating that there's specific parameters associated

[0:03:31] Planner Smith (probable): with the property including the local topography and terrain the siding of the house and there's

[0:03:38] Planner Smith (probable): also a herbaceous dpa which is shown in the attached staff report that make the proposed

[0:03:47] Planner Smith (probable): proposed renovation the best option they'd like to avoid machine access or of allow continue to

[0:03:55] Planner Smith (probable): allow machine access to the south side of the house if they ever need to and they state that

[0:04:00] Planner Smith (probable): the neighbors are supportive and sight lines and will not be impacted so the house was built prior

[0:04:06] Planner Smith (probable): to current bylaws in 1949 as you've both seen the property and the photos show the existing deck

[0:04:17] Planner Smith (probable): attached deck with the covered roof is in the now interior side lot line so it's deemed legal

[0:04:26] Planner Smith (probable): non-conforming given that was built prior to that time figure two in your staff report shows the

[0:04:33] Planner Smith (probable): site of the corner of the deck where they want to enclose figure three shows the design plan

[0:04:40] Planner Smith (probable): and we have the applicant's designer on the line to answer any questions with photos there

[0:04:46] Planner Smith (probable): uh it there is some dp on the property but as you can see uh on page six of the package it's well

[0:04:54] Planner Smith (probable): away from the house uh along more of the foreshore area and there are a couple letters from the uh

[0:05:03] Planner Smith (probable): that the applicant has provided that they state are from the uh current owner or from the owners

[0:05:10] Planner Smith (probable): uh there's been no uh response to the uh notices that were sent out to the local property owners

[0:05:19] Planner Smith (probable): there's been no response for or against the application uh awesome and uh just uh i'll just

[0:05:33] Planner Smith (probable): speak finally to uh i think in in staff's perspective i think that's reasonable to

[0:05:38] Planner Smith (probable): deem this a minor variance but that's up the up to the board to decide and the other key factor

[0:05:43] Planner Smith (probable): for the board to determine is of course,

[0:05:47] Planner Smith (probable): whether there is a demonstrated hardship here or not.

[0:05:50] Planner Smith (probable): It's really up to the, you know,

[0:05:52] Planner Smith (probable): there's no really clear defined definition of hardship.

[0:05:57] Planner Smith (probable): It's really up to the board to kind of shape what that is.

[0:05:59] Planner Smith (probable): I would say that financial hardship is not a typical reason

[0:06:04] Planner Smith (probable): where hardship is deemed to be warranted.

[0:06:09] Planner Smith (probable): And with that, it's back over to the board

[0:06:12] Planner Smith (probable): to have a discussion and any questions from the applicants or myself and uh we can send it back

[0:06:19] Planner Smith (probable): to you there chair thank you yeah

[0:06:24] Trustee MacLean: so um one thing that i was looking for brad is i believe we are

[0:06:30] Trustee MacLean: allowed to encroach into the side yard 1.2 meters with a porch is that correct uh

[0:06:40] Planner Smith (probable): there's no specific

[0:06:42] Planner Smith (probable): specific isn't there a deck encroachment

[0:06:44] Planner Smith (probable): that there's a 0.6 meters perhaps okay

[0:06:48] Trustee MacLean: so it's that's

[0:06:49] Trustee MacLean: the number that i was looking for so we are currently about 0.8 so where previously they

[0:06:54] Trustee MacLean: were sort of halfway into the setback now they want to go about three quarters of the way into

[0:06:59] Trustee MacLean: the setback so i think that that could be maybe seen as minor i guess the problem that i have is

[0:07:07] Trustee MacLean: the hardship and i'm not sure where the hardship lies in this application it does look like there's

[0:07:18] Trustee MacLean: sort of plenty of space on the south east side of the property and not so much on the southwest so

[0:07:29] Trustee MacLean: i just i'm not sure that there i'm not sure that i can see a hardship here i'm wondering if the

[0:07:41] Trustee MacLean: applicant or bird or anyone wants to speak to the issue of of hardship on this i

[0:07:48] Planner Smith (probable): think this

[0:07:49] Planner Smith (probable): would be a reasonable time to look to the applicants to speak to their application and

[0:07:53] Planner Smith (probable): uh and then could carry on after that chair over

[0:07:59] Voice 4: to you applicants and

[0:08:04] Voice 2: you're just in response

[0:08:05] Voice 2: to your question about the location of the deck the deck is already there it's an existing deck

[0:08:13] Voice 2: I do understand that.

[0:08:15] Trustee MacLean: It's great that Islands Trust is allowing this to be called existing non-conforming. There's an existing deck that is shown on your survey by way as being 0.79 meters from your property line.

[0:08:30] Trustee MacLean: that deck is allowed to encroach 0.6 meters into the setback so you're about 1.4 meters away from

[0:08:40] Trustee MacLean: the step from where you should be at the moment like you're 1.4 meters you've given a 1.4 meter

[0:08:48] Trustee MacLean: setback where you would normally be allowed to have a three meter setback and you're asking to

[0:08:55] Trustee MacLean: to increase that so you're actually asked no sorry colleen no um

[0:09:00] Trustee MacLean: yes i can i'm sorry i'm

[0:09:03] Trustee MacLean: i'm trying to explain that your deck is allowed to encroach into the setback a building is not

[0:09:10] Trustee MacLean: so by virtue of creating the building you are increasing the non-conformity do you follow me

[0:09:18] Trustee MacLean: there because you are enclosing the deck you are giving away the 1.2 meter encroachment that you

[0:09:24] Trustee MacLean: you have. But that notwithstanding, I don't see the hardship. When I look at this, I say,

[0:09:30] Trustee MacLean: why aren't they building on the west side of the house? Why are they turning the living room into

[0:09:35] Trustee MacLean: the master bedroom? And why are they building on the deck? There doesn't seem to be an undue

[0:09:44] Trustee MacLean: hardship that forces you to have to enclose the deck.

[0:09:52] Voice 11: May I speak? Absolutely. Okay.

[0:09:55] Voice 2: Okay. On the side of the house that you're referring to, there's a very large cedar tree,

[0:10:02] Voice 2: mature cedar tree that would be disrupted were we to build on that side of the deck.

[0:10:14] Voice 2: As well, we've had somebody come in to look at accessing our septic system if we need to.

[0:10:26] Voice 2: And currently, there is a way that with the hill, with the cliff that we have there going up, currently there's enough space that they could get the machinery and so on down there.

[0:10:40] Voice 2: but our concern is if if we were to push out in that direction that um yeah that would be

[0:10:51] Voice 2: difficult because you can't access our septic field area in any other with any other route

[0:11:01] Voice 2: um go

[0:11:08] Trustee MacLean: ahead no

[0:11:10] Voice 8: go ahead sorry okay

[0:11:11] Trustee MacLean: so i i do see that there is a cedar tree shown on your survey

[0:11:16] Trustee MacLean: the cedar tree appears to be in the neighborhood of eight meters or so from the house the drip

[0:11:24] Trustee MacLean: line of that cedar tree is not marked but it does look like it's a sort of 0.9 meter so it is a

[0:11:33] Trustee MacLean: somewhat sizable tree the septic lids are shown at the southeast corner of your site

[0:11:39] Trustee MacLean: right? Most of the septic guys on island carry a sizable length of hose, but taking the cedar

[0:11:49] Trustee MacLean: tree down to build over there doesn't seem like, I don't see how it would be a hardship to have to

[0:12:00] Trustee MacLean: take down a tree. And it doesn't seem like that's the only option. You could also build to the sort

[0:12:04] Trustee MacLean: of north east side of the house right where you've got a proposed proposed porch you've got a well

[0:12:11] Trustee MacLean: so there's clearly been development there we can go all the way over to the carport you can see

[0:12:17] Trustee MacLean: by the width of the driveway here where someone it looks that someone could get a truck pretty

[0:12:22] Trustee MacLean: close to the septic field or bring in a smaller bobcat if you ever needed to get to the septic

[0:12:27] Trustee MacLean: field the septic field does look like it's uh quite close to the natural boundary so i'm not

[0:12:33] Trustee MacLean: sure that you would even be able to renovate the septic field i'm not sure how that enters

[0:12:37] Trustee MacLean: into this discussion it does look like there's sort of lots of space on the site to be able to

[0:12:43] Trustee MacLean: push out a master bedroom and that i don't see that that is the only location to put a bathroom

[0:12:50] Trustee MacLean: on your property so

[0:12:54] Voice 7: we actually brought a whole operator here when we know and we said if you

[0:12:58] Voice 7: were going to change our bathroom or or put an extension how would you get how would you get to

[0:13:04] Voice 7: our septic guilt to pull out the i guess it's 20 year old uh tank that's there and he said

[0:13:11] Voice 7: i would have to come down here and it's it's difficult but i could put a little roof beside

[0:13:17] Voice 7: he wasn't you know he wasn't going to knock the cedar tree over he was going to come down

[0:13:21] Voice 7: and there's there's two little i'll call them precipices or rock outcrops and he would he said

[0:13:29] Voice 7: I could come down I can flip a plastic tank in there but I said well if how far can you go and

[0:13:37] Voice 7: he he basically told us where he could and where he couldn't go and that's

[0:13:41] Voice 7: why we we it's one of

[0:13:43] Voice 7: the reasons we wanted on the other side is it's our only

[0:13:46] Voice 7: access into our backyard I I get that

[0:13:49] Trustee MacLean: but then do you have the survey here like what what

[0:13:54] Voice 7: survey are you asking for the survey that

[0:13:57] Trustee MacLean: is included with your permit application yeah it's it's in your it's in your package yeah no

[0:14:02] Trustee MacLean: i'm see i'm looking at it right now and i'm just wondering if you could look at it with me

[0:14:06] Trustee MacLean: because you could build like you could extend your house right where it says abandoned well

[0:14:12] Trustee MacLean: and that wouldn't that wouldn't impact anyone's route to the septic lids or septic field there's

[0:14:20] Trustee MacLean: there's a apparently there's a lot of space there well away from trees and well away from the septic

[0:14:28] Trustee MacLean: field that wouldn't encroach anyone's route to get to the septic field or septic tanks

[0:14:33] Voice 7: if you look at our um our well our actual well the whole you know it goes right to the house

[0:14:40] Voice 7: right to where you're you're talking about yeah so again do we want to create a problem for

[0:14:48] Voice 7: ourselves because i get

[0:14:51] Trustee MacLean: no i get that it would be costly to move that but an unfortunate part

[0:14:56] Trustee MacLean: of the board of variance is that we can't uh we can't incorporate cost in our decision making

[0:15:04] Trustee MacLean: that that's financial burden is not a hardship right so that the well hose going across there

[0:15:11] Trustee MacLean: i do recognize for you that it's unfortunate but it's not but the cost of moving something

[0:15:19] Trustee MacLean: can't be factored into our decision we have to just look at the physical constraints of the site

[0:15:26] Trustee MacLean: And we have to understand that the zoning is applied unevenly.

[0:15:31] Trustee MacLean: Our job is to take this zoning model, which is applied to all of the lots on North Pender, and look at how it creates an undue burden for you that your property is zoned the same way that the neighbor or the other neighbor's property is zoned.

[0:15:49] Trustee MacLean: And that's what I'm seeing is that there's not an undue hardship here, that your property isn't substantially different from your neighbors. For example, if your property was incredibly narrow, and we could say, like, look, my property is only 10 feet wide, it would be crazy of you to make me build a house that's only one foot wide in the middle of it.

[0:16:10] Trustee MacLean: I need to push out into my setbacks. Then we could say, you're right, your property is so narrow

[0:16:17] Trustee MacLean: that there is an undue burden on you and that there is hardship there. But here, I don't see

[0:16:23] Trustee MacLean: that your property is substantially different from either of the neighbor's properties. So it's hard

[0:16:29] Trustee MacLean: for me to see that you are unfairly impacted by this zoning regulation in a way that either of

[0:16:38] Trustee MacLean: your neighbors wouldn't be. And that's the test that we have to look at to determine whether or

[0:16:44] Trustee MacLean: not there's hardship. And that's just what I'm not seeing here is that your property isn't so

[0:16:49] Trustee MacLean: substantially different from your neighbors that we need to bend the rules to apply differently

[0:16:54] Trustee MacLean: to this physical reality of your property.

[0:16:58] Voice 8: A question. Yeah. Just to roll back a bit into

[0:17:03] Voice 8: to the conversation earlier in the conversation it's news to me that a porch is allowed into a

[0:17:13] Voice 8: setback yeah a porch is allowed we were allowed soffits and like a deck surface but not the

[0:17:21] Voice 8: foundation elements to project in the range of two feet we

[0:17:28] Planner Smith (probable): looked at that yeah yeah go ahead

[0:17:29] Planner Smith (probable): i can speak to that and it probably should have been included in my staff report and

[0:17:33] Planner Smith (probable): And it's a different provision than on Galliano or Saturn.

[0:17:37] Planner Smith (probable): It's a bit of a unique provision or not unique, but unique to me anyway.

[0:17:40] Planner Smith (probable): So I'm just learning it.

[0:17:41] Planner Smith (probable): But there is section 3.310, which speaks to the allowance of chimneys, cornices, leaders, gutters, pilasters, belt courses, sills, bays, windows, ornamental features, steps, eaves, sunlight control projections, canopies, balconies, or porches that project beyond the face of a building.

[0:17:59] Planner Smith (probable): the minimum distance of 0.6 meters from a lot line essentially so so as andrew was saying you are

[0:18:07] Planner Smith (probable): right now with your porch 0.79 meters so you're essentially encroaching 2.21 meters into the

[0:18:15] Planner Smith (probable): actual side lot setback but because you are deemed to be it's deemed to be a porch

[0:18:21] Planner Smith (probable): you are allowed an allowance of an additional 0.6 meters so essentially for the porch

[0:18:28] Planner Smith (probable): The setback is 2.4 meters, and so you're currently non-conforming between 2.4 and 0.79 meters.

[0:18:39] Planner Smith (probable): and there's other point there is that as soon as you close that in you lose that provision and

[0:18:45] Planner Smith (probable): the 0.6 disappears but also it now is no longer you know you're creating more of a 3d

[0:18:54] Planner Smith (probable): structured footprint there so you're increasing the non-conformity and therefore the local

[0:18:59] Planner Smith (probable): government act requires that it either meet the new land use bylaw regulations or you get

[0:19:07] Planner Smith (probable): variants and that's where you're at

[0:19:09] Planner Smith (probable): looking at your building

[0:19:11] Planner Smith (probable): plan and it's

[0:19:13] Planner Smith (probable): not my role to decide

[0:19:15] Planner Smith (probable): a hardship

[0:19:18] Planner Smith (probable): here is met or not

[0:19:19] Planner Smith (probable): but I would make the point that you have

[0:19:21] Planner Smith (probable): that proposed deck where

[0:19:22] Planner Smith (probable): you could put your

[0:19:25] Planner Smith (probable): additional square footage right

[0:19:27] Planner Smith (probable): that's about the same square footage

[0:19:29] Planner Smith (probable): as you're seeking on your

[0:19:31] Planner Smith (probable): sun deck and

[0:19:33] Planner Smith (probable): so is it undue hardship that you're not

[0:19:35] Planner Smith (probable): getting your new deck because you're having to put

[0:19:37] Planner Smith (probable): your you plan your bathroom there and that would be up to the board to decide but probably in my

[0:19:42] Planner Smith (probable): view that's probably not where hardship line would fall just to

[0:19:46] Voice 6: support yeah and just just

[0:19:47] Planner Smith (probable): and then yeah miss over to uh trustee hall would probably be

[0:19:53] Voice 6: yeah so so that's what i noticed as

[0:19:55] Voice 6: well um that you know you're expanding to the south with that new sun deck um so you're already

[0:20:02] Voice 6: reducing the access in that corner. And if you were to, I mean, as Brad said, and Andrew said,

[0:20:12] Voice 6: we're not here to redesign your house or anything, but it does look like there's other options

[0:20:16] Voice 6: available to be able to maybe change the layout of your house and put the bathroom either at the

[0:20:24] Voice 6: northeast corner of the house, either to the north or to the east, which probably wouldn't

[0:20:29] Voice 6: encroach on accessibility and um and again as brad just pointed out i thought that you know

[0:20:35] Voice 6: moving the bathroom to the south would also you've already proposed to enclose that or to

[0:20:43] Voice 6: disrupt that part of the building site anyway so that would be another option for you if you

[0:20:49] Voice 6: didn't want to disrupt in other places and

[0:20:53] Planner Smith (probable): they might still have room to put out their deck

[0:20:55] Planner Smith (probable): without impacting access into their bottom corner there.

[0:21:02] Voice 6: And so I think, you know, clearly to Andrew's point is

[0:21:05] Voice 6: we're having trouble seeing that there's hardship

[0:21:08] Voice 6: because it looks like there are options.

[0:21:10] Voice 6: And unless those options are not feasible for some reason,

[0:21:15] Voice 6: that is a constraint reason,

[0:21:17] Voice 6: then those are the options that would probably be worth exploring

[0:21:20] Voice 6: before coming to us for the relaxation.

[0:21:26] Voice 6: on the side yard setback?

[0:21:29] Voice 8: May I speak?

[0:21:33] Voice 8: What you're not seeing here is the plan that we submitted

[0:21:36] Voice 8: is 10, 11 versions in.

[0:21:42] Voice 8: And as you probably all know, if you've renovated

[0:21:45] Voice 8: and Andrew's an architect, you move one piece of the puzzle,

[0:21:49] Voice 8: it affects everything else.

[0:21:51] Voice 8: It's not a standalone thing that the bathroom ended up

[0:21:57] Voice 8: where we're proposing.

[0:21:58] Voice 8: closing to keep a kitchen and a sunroom in a place that makes sense on the west coast

[0:22:06] Voice 8: those are locked in and now you're working around it to put the bathroom where the front door is is

[0:22:12] Voice 8: like where are you going to put the front door and it just goes on and on and on and you chase your

[0:22:18] Voice 8: tail

[0:22:18] Trustee MacLean: i get that but i don't see how we can how we can see design as hardship or or grant

[0:22:29] Trustee MacLean: hardship based on I would like my sunroom in the front of the house right like that's not a

[0:22:36] Trustee MacLean: that's not a thing that we all automatically get right it's it's not a given that a house would

[0:22:41] Trustee MacLean: have a sunroom at the front of the house and a bathroom at the back of the house some houses have

[0:22:48] Trustee MacLean: some lots propose weird design solutions or require a sort of thinking outside the box

[0:22:55] Trustee MacLean: And that's not necessarily a hardship.

[0:22:59] Trustee MacLean: While I do understand, Ken, that your time is valuable and that these design exercises are costly, again, the cost of redesign is something that we can't consider as it's a material cost and not part of the physical reality of the site.

[0:23:16] Voice 6: Yeah, it's not a hardship as far as the site plan is concerned.

[0:23:21] Voice 6: so

[0:23:24] Voice 8: the what i think the tipping tripping point here seems to be is that it's changing from a

[0:23:30] Voice 8: porch which i thought was deemed structure because it has foundation elements no

[0:23:37] Trustee MacLean: the the tipping

[0:23:38] Trustee MacLean: point sorry is that there's it doesn't have anything really to do with the porch it's just

[0:23:45] Trustee MacLean: that there's not a there's no hardship that's what we before we can look at should we be allowed

[0:23:51] Trustee MacLean: to push out a porch? Should we be allowed to encroach? How much should we be allowed to

[0:23:55] Trustee MacLean: encroach? What should the form should the encroachment take? We have to look at, is there

[0:24:02] Trustee MacLean: a reasonable case for hardship here? So with all of the, like, what form does the building take?

[0:24:09] Trustee MacLean: Arguments aside, we have to say, is there a reason that they can't have this happen in a different

[0:24:16] Trustee MacLean: way to this building and I don't I don't see that

[0:24:21] Voice 3: there is isn't sorry

[0:24:29] Voice 8: Colleen you were about to

[0:24:30] Voice 8: speak yeah

[0:24:31] Voice 2: I was just going to say that um with regards to pushing out in this corner of the house

[0:24:38] Voice 2: um part of the setting up for accessibility is we do need the bedroom to be a little bit larger

[0:24:46] Voice 2: so that we can move around.

[0:24:50] Voice 2: And also the hallway needs to be a little bit wider

[0:24:53] Voice 2: because it's very, very narrow.

[0:24:58] Voice 2: So with regards to pushing out there,

[0:25:00] Voice 2: that wouldn't enable our bedroom to a size that-

[0:25:11] Trustee MacLean: Yeah, I get that.

[0:25:13] Trustee MacLean: I find it, I find the accessibility argument,

[0:25:16] Trustee MacLean: argument again, that's something that we could look at once we have determined that there is a

[0:25:21] Trustee MacLean: hardship. Personally, I don't see the accessibility argument. The floor plan presented is not

[0:25:28] Trustee MacLean: particularly accessible, and there are many barriers here. So I don't think we could say,

[0:25:35] Trustee MacLean: hey, we need this space in order to create an adaptive living situation, because we're not

[0:25:42] Trustee MacLean: not really doing that. But we can't have that argument until we've determined that there is

[0:25:46] Trustee MacLean: a particular hardship. And I don't see

[0:25:50] Voice 3: the hardship here.

[0:25:58] Planner Smith (probable): Sorry, can you folks hear me?

[0:26:00] Planner Smith (probable): It's Brad here. I'm now in my computer for whatever reason decided that was the time for

[0:26:05] Planner Smith (probable): a useful update. So I've caught up to most of where you're at, though, I think. I think you're

[0:26:13] Planner Smith (probable): still more or less the same place by the sounds of it

[0:26:15] Voice 3: yeah what

[0:26:17] Planner Smith (probable): i would what i would say is that

[0:26:21] Voice 3: the

[0:26:22] Planner Smith (probable): board will make a decision today if the board did turn you down you could seek

[0:26:26] Planner Smith (probable): a variance through the local trust committee route through a typical

[0:26:31] Planner Smith (probable): development variance permit where hardship is not the key criteria and and the board here is

[0:26:38] Planner Smith (probable): the board's perspective around hardship is not

[0:26:42] Planner Smith (probable): shaped by the local government act and the very clear statement that that is

[0:26:46] Planner Smith (probable): what their role is is to decide if there's a reasonable

[0:26:50] Planner Smith (probable): variance given a hardship that is

[0:26:54] Planner Smith (probable): demonstrated to them for a particular property with respect to

[0:26:58] Planner Smith (probable): zoning and the siting

[0:27:01] Planner Smith (probable): the local trust committee has

[0:27:05] Planner Smith (probable): has a complete discretion to decide

[0:27:07] Planner Smith (probable): on if an application is varied or not.

[0:27:11] Planner Smith (probable): And so you could apply and go down that route

[0:27:14] Planner Smith (probable): if you're unsuccessful with this route.

[0:27:18] Planner Smith (probable): Of course, it requires another application,

[0:27:22] Planner Smith (probable): but from a reasonableness test,

[0:27:24] Planner Smith (probable): I think your application is reasonable

[0:27:26] Planner Smith (probable): given everything you're saying.

[0:27:27] Planner Smith (probable): It's just challenging to demonstrate

[0:27:29] Planner Smith (probable): where the hardship exists is what I'm hearing

[0:27:31] Planner Smith (probable): from the board and I tend to agree with them.

[0:27:36] Voice 6: Thanks for that, Brad. Yeah, because I mean, Colleen and Ken both mentioned about, you know, the location of the bathroom relative to, say, the front door or the size of the master bedroom.

[0:27:48] Voice 6: And I look at the proposed floor plan, and even though it would increase the footprint of the house, the den, for instance, the north wall of the den could be extended to the north to make that den the size of the master bedroom you were looking for.

[0:28:01] Voice 6: Or it could be extended north to include the en suite bathroom as well.

[0:28:05] Voice 6: And that's within the building envelope, which wouldn't require a variance.

[0:28:09] Voice 6: So those are the things that we have to weigh, and we're constrained by that, by weighing those factors in whether we can grant this variance or not.

[0:28:17] Voice 6: And that's, you know, there's other options available to you.

[0:28:19] Voice 6: And so because we don't see the demonstration of a hardship here, I think we probably have come to the conclusion here that we likely will not be able to grant this variance in this format.

[0:28:38] Trustee MacLean: I would agree with that statement, yes.

[0:28:42] Trustee MacLean: I think we should, unfortunately, move to deny this application based on that there is no obvious hardship.

[0:28:55] Voice 4: So at this

[0:28:58] Planner Smith (probable): point, it would be a resolution that's required.

[0:29:01] Planner Smith (probable): So either of you could create a motion.

[0:29:04] Planner Smith (probable): Unfortunately, I'm not sitting in front of my computer.

[0:29:07] Planner Smith (probable): So I'm not even sure.

[0:29:09] Planner Smith (probable): I think it's so, Andrew, and we can get this with the recorder.

[0:29:14] Planner Smith (probable): We'll get this mostly right here.

[0:29:16] Planner Smith (probable): Carly's awesome.

[0:29:17] Planner Smith (probable): So it would be that the North Pender Vorta variants deny application NP-BOV, I think it's 2023.4, but we can clarify that.

[0:29:33] Planner Smith (probable): Jones and then you can state based on the reason that

[0:29:41] Voice 4: lack

[0:29:44] Planner Smith (probable): of demonstration of hardship from the

[0:29:48] Planner Smith (probable): person yeah just I think you can lack of demonstration of hardship yeah

[0:29:52] Voice 3: did you get

[0:29:56] Planner Smith (probable): that Carly sorry yeah

[0:29:57] Voice 1: thank you

[0:30:00] Planner Smith (probable): maybe you just want to read it back

[0:30:01] Voice 1: sure it was moved in second that the north pender border

[0:30:04] Voice 1: variance denies application np bob 2023.4 i'll check that jones based on lack of demonstration

[0:30:11] Voice 1: of hardship yes

[0:30:14] Voice 11: yes and

[0:30:17] Voice 4: then you would call the vote chair and you would vote call to vote

[0:30:22] Voice 3: all in favor unanimous and

[0:30:33] Planner Smith (probable): that's really the the end of your role i think

[0:30:37] Planner Smith (probable): here anything else that the applicants want to speak to you're certainly welcome to contact me

[0:30:43] Planner Smith (probable): and we can have a discussion about the local trust committee and the development variance

[0:30:49] Planner Smith (probable): application right if you want to shift to that we can certainly do that but

[0:30:55] Planner Smith (probable): as you've heard today i think this closes out your application i'd

[0:31:01] Voice 2: like to thank you all for

[0:31:03] Voice 2: for giving us your careful consideration.

[0:31:07] Voice 6: Thank you.

[0:31:08] Voice 6: Thank you.

[0:31:09] Voice 6: And I trust you can see the dilemma we've been put in

[0:31:13] Voice 6: to make this decision.

[0:31:14] Voice 6: And we're trying to be reasonable with everything

[0:31:16] Voice 6: that comes before us,

[0:31:17] Voice 6: but unfortunately it doesn't always go

[0:31:19] Voice 6: the way of the applicant.

[0:31:20] Voice 6: So we're sorry for that.

[0:31:23] Trustee MacLean: Thanks for well said.

[0:31:27] Planner Smith (probable): And our next meeting is on the 28th

[0:31:30] Planner Smith (probable): to revisit the Cameron application.

[0:31:32] Planner Smith (probable): So you'll be seeing a staff report prior to that.

[0:31:36] Planner Smith (probable): And they've done a lot of work to address some of the concerns you raised when you last met with them.

[0:31:42] Planner Smith (probable): Thank you.

[0:31:43] Planner Smith (probable): Thank you.

[0:31:44] Planner Smith (probable): Thank you, Colleen

[0:31:45] Voice 4: and Tom and Ken.

[0:31:46] Planner Smith (probable): Feel free to please contact me and we can go from here.

[0:31:50] Planner Smith (probable): Okay.

[0:31:50] Voice 4: Have a

[0:31:51] Planner Smith (probable): good afternoon, everyone.

[0:31:52] Voice 4: Bye bye.

North Pender Board of Variance     
Minutes of a Hearing   
September 13, 2023 ADOPTED 1 of 2 
 
North Pender Island Board of Variance 
Minutes of a Hearing 
 
 
 
Members Present: Andrew MacLean, BOV Member (Acting Chair) 
Bert Hol, BOV Member 
 
Staff Present: 
 
Brad Smith, Island Planner 
Carly Bilney, Recorder 
Emily Bryant, Staff 
Applicants: Colleen Jones 
 Thomas Jones 
Ken Rempel, Designer 
 
1. CALL TO ORDER 
 
Chair MacLean called the meeting to order at 10:02 a.m. 
 
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 
 
By general consent, the agenda was approved as presented. 
3. MINUTES 
 3.1 North Pender Board of Variance Minutes Dated July 26, 2023 
By general consent the North Pender Board of Variance meeting minutes of July 26, 
2023 were adopted as presented. 
4. UPDATE FROM SECRETARY 
5. APPLICATIONS 
 
5.1  NP-BOV-2023.4 (Jones) - Staff Report 
Island Planner Smith reviewed the Staff Report regarding NP-BOV-2023.4 (Jones). 
Discussion ensued and the following comments were made: 
 It was up to the Board of Variance to decide whether the applicants face a 
hardship that warrants variance 
 Hardship was difficult to ascertain in this application as there was space on the 
southeast side of the property where an extension can be added 
 Applicants noted the current design plan allows access to the septic field 
 Financial burden is not a hardship that warrants variance 
Date: 
Location: 
September 13, 2023 
Electronic Meeting (Zoom Webinar) 
 

  
North Pender Board of Variance     
Minutes of a Hearing   
September 13, 2023 ADOPTED 2 of 2 
 It was difficult to see a hardship in this application because there appeared to 
be alternative design options 
 The property is not substantially different from neighbouring properties to 
warrant a variance from the rules 
 Enclosing the deck would cause the applicants to lose their current 
nonconforming provision 
 The applicants could seek a development variance permit through the Local 
Trust Committee 
 
NP-BOV-2023-03 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that having considered the matters set out in s.542(1)(c) of the Local 
Government Act, and having found that undue hardship would not be caused to 
the applicant if s. 5.2 (1)(b) of the North Pender Land use Bylaw No. 224, 2023 is 
complied with, the North Pender Island Board of Variance denies application 
NP-BOV-2023.4 (Jones). 
CARRIED 
 
6. ADJOURNMENT 
 
By general consent the meeting was adjourned at 10:34 a.m. 
 
 
 
                
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                    Recorder                      Date