Denman Island Local Trust Committee community information meeting, February 20, 2024

[0:00:01] Trustee Maude: all righty welcome everybody um good afternoon uh thank you for joining us today for the special

[0:00:06] Trustee Maude: meeting of the denman island local trust committee i want to begin today by acknowledging that we're

[0:00:12] Trustee Maude: fortunate to be able to gather today a location across the territory of the coast salish people

[0:00:17] Trustee Maude: i'm david martin elected on main island and chair of the denman island local trust committee

[0:00:22] Trustee Maude: i'm joined today by denman and local trustees so david graham and sam worthwick uh together we make

[0:00:29] Trustee Maude: kept up with them and our local trust committee.

[0:00:30] Trustee Maude: We have some staff members joining us today,

[0:00:32] Trustee Maude: joining in person are Narissa Chadwick

[0:00:34] Trustee Maude: and Vicky Bultman, our minute taker.

[0:00:38] Trustee Maude: Today's meeting is being live streamed and recorded

[0:00:41] Trustee Maude: for those who are unable to attend in person today.

[0:00:43] Trustee Maude: The recording will be hosted

[0:00:44] Trustee Maude: at the Islands Trust website for future viewing.

[0:00:47] Trustee Maude: This meeting is an official forum

[0:00:49] Trustee Maude: for your local trust committee to make decisions

[0:00:50] Trustee Maude: about land use planning matters

[0:00:52] Trustee Maude: and discuss relevant business.

[0:00:54] Trustee Maude: I want to add that this is a place of employment

[0:00:56] Trustee Maude: despite the fact many staff members

[0:00:58] Trustee Maude: in their own place or staff with the right to a safe and respectful workplace um just as a quick

[0:01:03] Trustee Maude: overview um this meeting is basically more of an information meeting for the trustees uh for

[0:01:10] Trustee Maude: planner chadwick to present her report uh we're not necessarily going to be making any um huge

[0:01:15] Trustee Maude: decisions or anything um and we're reserving uh public um for our actual in-person meeting

[0:01:22] Trustee Maude: meeting on Denman Island. So we're not anticipating doing a Q&A or a town hall session in this

[0:01:31] Trustee Maude: meeting. This is more for gathering information. So if we want to set things off, we have a

[0:01:40] Trustee Maude: limited agenda. I don't think there's any additions to the agenda. And so I guess we

[0:01:45] Trustee Maude: will just hand it over to Planner Chadwick to start walking us through things.

[0:01:48] Trustee Maude: thanks all

[0:01:50] Planner Chadwick: right thank you uh chair mod um yeah so i i think uh the purpose of this meeting is uh

[0:01:58] Planner Chadwick: as uh chair mod indicated is to um sort of present some analysis um of the materials that we've

[0:02:07] Planner Chadwick: received from the the um housing apc um and just talk about next steps really in the project um

[0:02:17] Planner Chadwick: The resolutions that you have in front of you are essentially next steps resolutions.

[0:02:23] Planner Chadwick: One is respecting the idea of having a suitable land analysis mapping tool focused meeting before heading into a community information meeting.

[0:02:39] Planner Chadwick: Staff already have direction to organize a community information meeting.

[0:02:43] Planner Chadwick: That was made, I believe, sometime last year to a schedule after we had received the housing report.

[0:02:57] Planner Chadwick: So there's that.

[0:02:59] Planner Chadwick: Again, these are sort of process steps.

[0:03:01] Planner Chadwick: And then there's the question of whether you'd like to have any kind of online engagement as well.

[0:03:08] Planner Chadwick: and that on there's an opportunity there to use the CVRD site if you're

[0:03:15] Planner Chadwick: interested in that so those are the two sort of process they're just process

[0:03:18] Planner Chadwick: resolutions but before you but but mostly I'd like to take the time to just

[0:03:24] Planner Chadwick: go through all of the items that that were sort of listed in in the appendix

[0:03:32] Planner Chadwick: to the report and see if you've got any questions, you know, if there are any things that you're

[0:03:42] Planner Chadwick: feeling particularly uncomfortable about so that we can kind of, you can get a good sense of what's

[0:03:49] Planner Chadwick: possible. I've gone through every recommendation that was made in the Housing APC's report

[0:03:57] Planner Chadwick: And as I've indicated, kind of organize them in a way that we could sort of focus it in a way that kind of puts them into categories a little bit so we can focus on the sort of tangible changes and the things that are within this project scope and also identifying the things that are outside the project scope but shouldn't be forgotten.

[0:04:24] Planner Chadwick: There is an opportunity to create a housing action plan so that all of that information is retained.

[0:04:33] Planner Chadwick: And also, and I apologize, Attachment 4 was supposed to be the Draft Islands Trust Housing Strategic Action Plan.

[0:04:45] Planner Chadwick: I sent it to you all independently because I recognized that it had saved as the business case.

[0:04:51] Planner Chadwick: It was just a fudge on my part.

[0:04:55] Planner Chadwick: But I bring your attention to that because there are some of the recommendations in the Housing APC report actually are addressed in some of the actions that are being taken on a higher level.

[0:05:08] Planner Chadwick: And we can discuss that as we sort of move through and how that all fits together.

[0:05:13] Planner Chadwick: so before I start so before I start going into each of the recommendations

[0:05:22] Planner Chadwick: just wanted to see if you've got any sort of higher level comments or

[0:05:25] Planner Chadwick: questions well

[0:05:27] Trustee Maude: one thing I just wanted to touch on because it's been several

[0:05:33] Trustee Maude: emails about it in the report you talk about CVRD and it's identified out as

[0:05:39] Trustee Maude: this being the Cowichan Valley Regional District.

[0:05:42] Trustee Maude: And there was a question whether or not that was meant to be the Comox Valley Regional District.

[0:05:45] Planner Chadwick: That's meant to be the Comox, yeah, that was definitely a typo on my part, I'm sorry.

[0:05:49] Trustee Maude: Okay, because that sort of caused a lot of consternation, because people thought that.

[0:05:56] Trustee Maude: So, appreciate that clarification.

[0:05:58] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, sorry, that was a little bit of a brain blip.

[0:06:01] Planner Chadwick: It was always meant to be Comox Valley.

[0:06:03] Voice 1: So, the

[0:06:03] Voice 1: question, I guess, on that, because it refers to Plan My Cowichan,

[0:06:09] Voice 1: And I didn't immediately clock this. I thought that maybe you were referencing a thing, but there isn't like a Plan My Comox in that same way. So there isn't a website to, I mean, I'm sure that the Comox Valley, I'm sure have a website that mirrors that.

[0:06:27] Voice 1: I know most most regional districts do in some way but you do reference specifically plan my

[0:06:33] Voice 1: cowichan or plan your cowichan and so

[0:06:36] Voice 1: I was just and it's tricky because they are the same acronyms

[0:06:40] Voice 1: uh but uh yeah that we would definitely want to see that reflect yeah

[0:06:47] Planner Chadwick: totally would be

[0:06:47] Planner Chadwick: yeah

[0:06:48] Voice 1: it's

[0:06:49] Planner Chadwick: the Comox Valley we're talking about I'm yeah yeah that was yeah

[0:06:53] Voice 6: yeah well just to be

[0:06:55] Voice 6: be clear for me. The portal is owned by the Cowichan Regional District. Would a Denman

[0:07:04] Voice 6: community member have to go to the Cowichan website to access the portal? Would the Comox

[0:07:14] Voice 6: Valley be happy to host a portal that's not theirs? Can we have it on the Denman page of

[0:07:21] Voice 6: of the Islands Trust website.

[0:07:22] Planner Chadwick: Yes, so that's what, so what we've understood

[0:07:25] Planner Chadwick: is that the Plan My Couch, they actually reached out to us

[0:07:28] Planner Chadwick: to see if Denman and Hornby would be interested in,

[0:07:32] Planner Chadwick: so it is the Comox, yeah, so Comox Valley Regional District

[0:07:36] Planner Chadwick: who we have to deal with directly, but Couch,

[0:07:38] Planner Chadwick: the Plan My Couch extends their bill,

[0:07:44] Planner Chadwick: like their support, I guess,

[0:07:45] Planner Chadwick: for local governments

[0:07:48] Planner Chadwick: up to Denman and Hormey.

[0:07:52] Planner Chadwick: So they had actually approached us.

[0:07:54] Voice 1: Gotcha.

[0:07:55] Planner Chadwick: Yeah.

[0:07:56] Voice 1: Well, that's not confusing at all.

[0:07:59] Voice 1: Yeah,

[0:07:59] Planner Chadwick: so that's where the confusing piece is.

[0:08:01] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, understandably so.

[0:08:04] Voice 6: So my question is, I still have to know,

[0:08:07] Voice 6: where would a community member access that page?

[0:08:11] Planner Chadwick: So we'd make it accessible from our page.

[0:08:14] Planner Chadwick: They could

[0:08:15] Planner Chadwick: link to it from our page.

[0:08:17] Planner Chadwick: But

[0:08:17] Voice 1: the portal would still be hosted under Couch and Valley?

[0:08:20] Planner Chadwick: It would be hosted under there, yeah.

[0:08:22] Planner Chadwick: Okay.

[0:08:23] Planner Chadwick: Yeah.

[0:08:23] Trustee Maude: Okay.

[0:08:24] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, so sorry about the confusion.

[0:08:29] Trustee Maude: I'm so confused. So anybody else have any other questions for Planet Chadwick,

[0:08:34] Trustee Maude: or do you want to just dive right in?

[0:08:37] Voice 1: No, I think with that, I think we can dive right in pretty much.

[0:08:40] Voice 1: Okay.

[0:08:41] Planner Chadwick: All right, great. Yeah, so as I've indicated...

[0:08:46] Planner Chadwick: Are you going to

[0:08:46] Voice 3: share your screen, Marissa?

[0:08:48] Voice 3: Oh,

[0:08:48] Planner Chadwick: yeah, yeah, that's a good idea. Sorry,

[0:08:52] Voice 7: right place here. My computer seems to be jumping around a bit. Sorry, just having a couple technical difficulties here. Okay,

[0:10:03] Planner Chadwick: so, as I've, yeah, can you, am I sharing the right screen?

[0:10:09] Voice 5: Yeah.

[0:10:10] Voice 5: yeah okay

[0:10:11] Planner Chadwick: good you can all see it all good okay um so as i've indicated here uh i have created

[0:10:18] Planner Chadwick: some shading just to identify what's um definitely in scope what's partially in scope and what's not

[0:10:24] Planner Chadwick: in scope and like i said before um you know everything can become part of a housing action

[0:10:31] Planner Chadwick: plan so that uh so that there's still focus on those items um so the first category here um

[0:10:39] Planner Chadwick: We're looking at the increasing opportunities for primary dwellings, secondary suites and accessory dwelling units.

[0:10:48] Planner Chadwick: So this is all about increasing housing on privately owned lots, essentially.

[0:10:55] Planner Chadwick: And so the HAPC recommendation here is to legalize all existing housing.

[0:11:03] Planner Chadwick: So I think there's been lots of conversation around the fact that there are a number of dwellings that are in existence that are currently not legal.

[0:11:17] Planner Chadwick: And the HGAPC report did talk about the use of legal non-conforming status, but that's only possible if they were originally legal at some point in time, which I'm not sure that would apply.

[0:11:29] Planner Chadwick: So in that case, there is a number of the recommendations throughout the report are looking to support additional dwellings on lots.

[0:11:42] Planner Chadwick: So if those are actually supported, such as removing TUP requirement for ADUs, etc., then a lot of those dwellings may become legal, but there is an opportunity to site-specifically zone if there are some that are not captured by other changes.

[0:12:07] Planner Chadwick: So is there any questions related to that particular point?

[0:12:13] Voice 6: trustee graham thank you um let's just start with the title um because i don't think the purpose of

[0:12:22] Voice 6: the housing advisory planning commission was to increase primary dwellings um i don't want

[0:12:28] Voice 6: the community to think we're just adding dwellings to have more dwellings more market dwellings the

[0:12:34] Voice 6: whole focus was i believe and my understanding was secondary and accessory dwellings to

[0:12:39] Voice 6: to address affordable housing opportunities,

[0:12:42] Voice 6: even if they're not formally affordable,

[0:12:44] Voice 6: but by the way they're constructed,

[0:12:46] Voice 6: the affordability is kind of baked into the requirements.

[0:12:49] Voice 6: Anyway, I agree with you that it's quite likely

[0:12:54] Voice 6: that if the full range of recommendations are adopted,

[0:12:59] Voice 6: we'll capture most, if not all of the illegal dwellings.

[0:13:03] Voice 6: And I like the idea of once the dust settles

[0:13:06] Voice 6: and people realize that they didn't become legal,

[0:13:09] Voice 6: they should have an opportunity to present their case

[0:13:11] Voice 6: to the local trust committee.

[0:13:13] Voice 6: And at that time, we can make individual decisions

[0:13:15] Voice 6: and perhaps create a particular zone

[0:13:20] Voice 6: that would capture how many,

[0:13:21] Voice 6: who knows how many there will be.

[0:13:23] Voice 6: There may be one, there may be five,

[0:13:24] Voice 6: there may be, we have no idea.

[0:13:25] Voice 6: But we would look at them individually at that point.

[0:13:27] Voice 6: So I like that, that works for me.

[0:13:32] Planner Chadwick: I'll just make a clarification there.

[0:13:36] Planner Chadwick: So opportunities for primary dwellings is there

[0:13:39] Planner Chadwick: because um there are some staff recommendations related to making it

[0:13:44] Planner Chadwick: options for enabling the creation of lots for nonprofit so that that's why

[0:13:57] Planner Chadwick: that's there thank

[0:13:58] Trustee Maude: you ask a point of clarification because you say staff

[0:14:05] Trustee Maude: note that housing that was never legal cannot have legal non-conforming status

[0:14:09] Trustee Maude: status um on our island we have some houses that date back 100 years um which predates um any type

[0:14:17] Trustee Maude: of zoning and such and that's always sort of been hung under the category of legal non-conforming

[0:14:23] Trustee Maude: yeah

[0:14:23] Planner Chadwick: well that's true so like in essence there were no rules so because there were no rules

[0:14:29] Planner Chadwick: they that their existence um was essentially not not legal and so those are legal non-conforming

[0:14:36] Planner Chadwick: So if there are dwellings that existed before rules, absolutely, they're legal non-conforming.

[0:14:43] Planner Chadwick: But if they've been built since we've had zoning, then they can't be legal non-conforming.

[0:14:53] Trustee Maude: I think

[0:14:54] Trustee Maude: that sort of comment just needs to be expanded on maybe, perhaps.

[0:14:57] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, okay, sure.

[0:14:58] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, just a clarification there, for sure.

[0:15:01] Planner Chadwick: Sure.

[0:15:01] Voice 1: Are there other mechanisms? Is there a similar mechanism to that or will it need to be a site specific solution?

[0:15:10] Planner Chadwick: It would

[0:15:10] Planner Chadwick: have to be site specific. Yeah. Unless unless you can date it back to before bylaws.

[0:15:14] Voice 5: Yeah.

[0:15:15] Planner Chadwick: Yeah. Yeah. So. OK, so moving right along here.

[0:15:23] Planner Chadwick: Oops. So the idea of permitting dwellings in all zones except for those noted, those are generally the conservation zones.

[0:15:35] Planner Chadwick: and and certainly this is something that um that is not a difficult thing to do um and actually

[0:15:42] Planner Chadwick: so i mean i would i would add like you know the suitable land analysis may help to determine areas

[0:15:48] Planner Chadwick: that are are are um better or worse for adding any kind of density and so that's something that

[0:15:54] Planner Chadwick: you know we'll have a look at the suitable land analysis and and you can decide to the extent you

[0:15:59] Planner Chadwick: want to use that information and uh you know just just as a reminder that's the that you know that

[0:16:04] Planner Chadwick: data brings together what we know about water, what we know about areas that are sensitive,

[0:16:14] Planner Chadwick: and other pieces of data like that. So it's good pieces of information. So that should, I think,

[0:16:20] Planner Chadwick: be kept in the back of your mind generally. We used a very, you know, a very basic approach for

[0:16:28] Planner Chadwick: Main Island and that's where we came out with a bit of a pilot project and, you know, we'll sort

[0:16:32] Planner Chadwick: of revisit that with uh with maine's project um yeah so with respect to this the only thing that

[0:16:39] Planner Chadwick: i identify is that uh you know um there may be areas where you may want to to allow housing for

[0:16:46] Planner Chadwick: a specific purpose like a caretaker um trustee

[0:16:53] Voice 6: graham thank you i'll jump in um so i did go on

[0:16:56] Voice 6: to our our regulation bylaw 186 and in fact the only zone that isn't captured by the recommendations

[0:17:04] Voice 6: of the HAPC, because they did not include conservation or parkland, would be institutional.

[0:17:10] Voice 6: And I can't imagine a dwelling being approved in an institutional zone, because that would

[0:17:15] Voice 6: be a school or a church.

[0:17:16] Voice 6: So, sorry.

[0:17:19] Planner Chadwick: Oh, yeah.

[0:17:20] Planner Chadwick: You said you can't imagine it not being approved?

[0:17:23] Voice 6: I can't imagine us agreeing to have a house on a property that is institutionally zoned.

[0:17:29] Planner Chadwick: Oh, okay.

[0:17:29] Planner Chadwick: Well, I mean, yeah, that's

[0:17:31] Voice 6: something for you to consider.

[0:17:33] Voice 6: So I'll reiterate, all the zones allow housing except institutional conservation and park, and conservation and park are not recommended by the HAPC, and the only one that would be, and all water zones, of course, don't have housing regulations, it would be, so that's an easy one.

[0:17:52] Voice 6: Number two is piece of cake.

[0:17:53] Planner Chadwick: Piece of cake, as is, yes, we like, okay.

[0:18:03] Planner Chadwick: Okay, so consistency with agricultural land commission regulations, that's sort of in the works a little bit.

[0:18:09] Planner Chadwick: There's a little bit of a difference with what's going through with the bylaw 228 and 229, and that's just around the size allowed of the additional dwellings.

[0:18:27] Planner Chadwick: So, you know, that's something that can be kind of tweaked.

[0:18:31] Voice 6: yeah we we gave um final reading and sent those bylaws off to the executive and the minister

[0:18:37] Voice 6: on our last meeting so that's done and really it's only a difference between 500 square meters

[0:18:42] Voice 6: and 509 square meters so i i don't really see a big problem with that one so i think we're good

[0:18:46] Voice 6: there too yeah

[0:18:47] Planner Chadwick: so it's just like a small change so you're pretty all right there yeah i mean 500

[0:18:50] Voice 1: square meters is still huge so yes

[0:18:53] Planner Chadwick: done um okay so permitting secondary suites in all zones where

[0:18:59] Planner Chadwick: dwellings are permitted um so this is one um that again suitable land analysis may help you decide

[0:19:06] Planner Chadwick: whether or not you want to allow for uh secondary suites as well as as um additional adus um and

[0:19:16] Planner Chadwick: that's that sort of details that you can look at uh a little bit later we

[0:19:22] Voice 6: perhaps we should just

[0:19:23] Voice 6: leave the suitable land analysis discussion as a separate item in today's meeting

[0:19:27] Voice 6: because otherwise

[0:19:28] Voice 6: Otherwise, you're going to be popping it up every time something is.

[0:19:30] Voice 6: Yeah, sure.

[0:19:31] Voice 6: Thanks, Harrison.

[0:19:32] Planner Chadwick: Keep it in the back of your mind, yeah.

[0:19:33] Voice 6: Yeah, great.

[0:19:35] Planner Chadwick: So in general, this is something that, where are you sitting with it?

[0:19:42] Voice 6: Yeah, obviously.

[0:19:43] Voice 6: That's great.

[0:19:44] Voice 6: Yeah.

[0:19:46] Planner Chadwick: No questions.

[0:19:47] Planner Chadwick: It's fairly straightforward.

[0:19:48] Planner Chadwick: Yeah.

[0:19:52] Planner Chadwick: Okay, so permitting alternative types of accessory dwelling units in all zones where housing is permitted.

[0:19:57] Planner Chadwick: So these are dwelling units that are unique and different and not identified in the land use bylaw.

[0:20:09] Planner Chadwick: And so there is a simple amendment that could be made to identify these other types of dwelling units.

[0:20:19] Planner Chadwick: It gets a little bit tricky around, I mean, because Denman doesn't have, doesn't require building permits, that allows for a little bit more flexibility around this one.

[0:20:33] Planner Chadwick: But, but just, you know, just to keep in mind that that these alternative units don't won't necessarily conform to building code so you'd be you'd just be you'd be supporting something that isn't necessarily going to be conforming to building code.

[0:20:51] Planner Chadwick: I've

[0:20:54] Voice 6: got a question. What is the ramification of not defining what an accessory dwelling unit is? And in other words, whether it's an alternative dwelling unit or a traditional constructed dwelling unit, why are we worried what people choose to live in?

[0:21:17] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, really, you don't need to. Like, they're all accessory dwelling units. So you could just refer to them all as, I've only identified a bit of a difference. Like, really, you don't have to even have a definition for alternative dwelling units. They are essentially accessory dwelling units from a land use perspective, right?

[0:21:36] Planner Chadwick: Right. It's whatever. If it's a if it's a structure that somebody is living in that meets the criteria or the definition of dwelling, then it is just another dwelling unit on the property.

[0:21:49] Planner Chadwick: Right. So it's

[0:21:50] Voice 6: really is just we would have to amend the definition of dwelling to include something that people live in without being prescriptive in that.

[0:22:02] Voice 6: that it's got walls and a roof and it's made out of wood or concrete or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[0:22:06] Voice 6: I'm more interested in, obviously, the water and the sewage than what people choose to live in.

[0:22:12] Voice 6: And that's been traditional on them for decades.

[0:22:16] Voice 6: And it's I just think we need to keep it simple and reflect what actually happens.

[0:22:20] Voice 6: Yeah, that's my feeling.

[0:22:22] Voice 6: And

[0:22:22] Planner Chadwick: so on that note, Trustee Graham, for example, on Main Island, they allow people to live in RVs. RVs are considered dwelling units, but they must be connected to water and sewer.

[0:22:39] Planner Chadwick: So that's something that you would basically, you'd write into the land use bylaw.

[0:22:44] Planner Chadwick: yeah

[0:22:45] Voice 6: yeah yeah yeah or be serviced by an appropriate water and waste disposal system

[0:22:51] Voice 6: because it's it's not always you know a type one you know pressure excessive system sometimes it's

[0:22:57] Voice 6: a it's a composting toilet and sometimes it's cistern as opposed to a groundwater

[0:23:03] Voice 6: source it's still water and it's still being addressed properly yeah

[0:23:09] Planner Chadwick: so that would need to

[0:23:09] Planner Chadwick: be just defined in your land use bylaw yeah you

[0:23:12] Planner Chadwick: know that that is properly hooked up you

[0:23:16] Planner Chadwick: know that there's proper proper waste disposal and water yeah

[0:23:21] Voice 6: exactly that's my feeling anyway

[0:23:24] Voice 6: yeah yeah no i would agree yeah

[0:23:26] Planner Chadwick: okay so we're pretty good and um yeah like i say we can just

[0:23:31] Planner Chadwick: like alternative is just to just to identify that they're alternatives to the usual but

[0:23:38] Planner Chadwick: but basically they're accessory dwelling units.

[0:23:40] Planner Chadwick: And we can just leave it at that.

[0:23:41] Planner Chadwick: It just makes it easy.

[0:23:43] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, I agree.

[0:23:46] Planner Chadwick: Okay.

[0:23:48] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, so, you know, in the same vein,

[0:23:50] Planner Chadwick: this is pretty much the same thing.

[0:23:54] Planner Chadwick: You'd be considering these accessory dwelling units,

[0:24:00] Planner Chadwick: you know, so the HAPC is saying

[0:24:03] Planner Chadwick: in all zones where residential use is permitted.

[0:24:07] Planner Chadwick: So this will take a little bit of focusing on how many, you know, depending on the size of the property and location as well.

[0:24:20] Planner Chadwick: There are a number of considerations, right? And that's where we can look to the flexible housing,

[0:24:26] Planner Chadwick: the stuff that Maine's done as a reference and to discuss the details around this kind of an approach.

[0:24:34] Voice 6: Yeah, there's probably a lot of examples out there where on quite a small lot, the size of the accessory dwelling is quite small. In other words, it's proportionate to the size of the lot.

[0:24:46] Voice 6: Yeah,

[0:24:46] Voice 1: or the number. The number is proportionate to the size of the lot, I would think too.

[0:24:51] Voice 1: Yeah, that's right.

[0:24:53] Voice 1: Yeah,

[0:24:53] Planner Chadwick: so I'm hearing yes, this is great. Let's just figure out how best to do it. Yeah?

[0:25:00] Voice 3: Yeah, exactly.

[0:25:01] Voice 3: specifically

[0:25:01] Planner Chadwick: um the room rentals is uh the the one thing the hhpc had a a number of very specific

[0:25:10] Planner Chadwick: um requirements around room rentals and um what i indicate is that kind of thing it would be very

[0:25:17] Planner Chadwick: very difficult to monitor um specifics around room rentals it's something that is currently

[0:25:23] Planner Chadwick: permitted um i did identify here like you know we do need to dig into the definition of guest

[0:25:29] Planner Chadwick: accommodation and we had this discussion around um short-term vacation rentals with um with warren at

[0:25:35] Planner Chadwick: the last uh at the last uh ltc meeting so um you know that whole area we can also look at um there

[0:25:44] Planner Chadwick: may be some straightforward fixes that we can include uh in in the whole suite of of things

[0:25:51] Planner Chadwick: that that that'll happen here yeah

[0:25:55] Voice 6: and as you say if i may um we we already allow someone in

[0:25:59] Voice 6: a prime in a principal dwelling to if they want to rent out the second bedroom to a full-time

[0:26:03] Voice 6: person we allow that so we're not changing that no that that we might want to look at

[0:26:09] Voice 6: can someone in a adu rent out a room and we might want to look at that like well maybe we should

[0:26:15] Voice 6: stick to just the principal dwelling for rent for room rentals i don't know that's just a question

[0:26:21] Planner Chadwick: yeah i mean um if you're amazed about adding density right i mean there's there is yeah

[0:26:30] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, there's nothing prohibiting somebody from renting a room in their house

[0:26:34] Planner Chadwick: or having six, seven, eight family members live in their house, right?

[0:26:38] Voice 3: Exactly.

[0:26:38] Planner Chadwick: It's a similar sort of scenario.

[0:26:40] Voice 3: Yeah.

[0:26:41] Voice 3: There's some...

[0:26:42] Voice 3: I mean,

[0:26:43] Planner Chadwick: there are some local governments that place restrictions on room rentals,

[0:26:48] Planner Chadwick: but it's, yeah, it's not something that exists within the Islands Trust area.

[0:26:54] Voice 1: Yeah, I can't say that it feels like it would be a priority here.

[0:26:57] Voice 1: and and i i think in terms of like yeah monitoring it number one it's a nightmare and also gets to

[0:27:03] Voice 1: the point of being quite invasive i would think and then also just it's not something we're we're

[0:27:09] Voice 1: concerned about you know if the room's already there it's not like you're increasing the density

[0:27:14] Voice 1: of beyond what would be allowable if a big family moved in so you know yeah yeah

[0:27:18] Planner Chadwick: so what i'm hearing

[0:27:20] Planner Chadwick: is leave this as is we're good yeah

[0:27:22] Voice 1: i would like to make sure that we're and as you said already

[0:27:26] Voice 1: already Marissa like I would like to I'm really interested in digging down into uh better defining

[0:27:31] Voice 1: what determines uh what constitutes short-term vacation rental or short-term rental

[0:27:36] Planner Chadwick: absolutely

[0:27:37] Planner Chadwick: uh

[0:27:37] Voice 1: accommodation because that I I totally get that that could be a uh a problem but yeah it's

[0:27:45] Voice 1: I think

[0:27:46] Voice 1: that's part of that conversation

[0:27:48] Voice 6: to some degree yeah we've got that coming back Sam um yeah

[0:27:52] Voice 1: Yeah, yeah, I know, I know.

[0:27:53] Planner Chadwick: We've got, yeah, yeah.

[0:27:55] Planner Chadwick: It's on the list here as well, a couple of times.

[0:27:57] Planner Chadwick: So we can.

[0:27:57] Voice 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[0:27:58] Voice 1: That's just keeping it there.

[0:28:01] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, yeah.

[0:28:03] Planner Chadwick: Top of mind.

[0:28:06] Planner Chadwick: I think this is a no brainer

[0:28:08] Planner Chadwick: because this is sort of where we started, right?

[0:28:12] Planner Chadwick: This is where

[0:28:12] Planner Chadwick: the conversation really,

[0:28:15] Planner Chadwick: this has been hammered home over and over again.

[0:28:18] Planner Chadwick: So very straightforward-ish.

[0:28:23] Planner Chadwick: you know, nothing's completely straightforward, but you know, in this, this case, it is you know,

[0:28:28] Planner Chadwick: it's a, it's a, it's a fairly straightforward thing to do. It's, it's kind of a, it's kind of

[0:28:33] Planner Chadwick: a very strange approach to begin with. So I'm sure there'll be a lot of people who'll be happy

[0:28:39] Planner Chadwick: to see that changed.

[0:28:42] Voice 1: And just, I want to, well, I was going to come back to this later, but it's

[0:28:46] Voice 1: come up again and i'm going to sort of put it out there in terms of um like uh starting to take

[0:28:55] Voice 1: action on some of these things that we know are like relatively straightforward to do um what is

[0:29:02] Voice 1: the sort of timeline uh and what's what's the roadmap like i don't necessarily like if there's

[0:29:06] Voice 1: stuff that's really simple like that or that we think is relatively simple to do or or pretty

[0:29:13] Voice 1: straightforward not not controversial do we need to wait for the rest of the project to advance

[0:29:20] Voice 1: before we start making moves on those things or can we start making those changes now because

[0:29:24] Voice 1: especially in that last ltc meeting we had um you know there's there's a we had an applicant

[0:29:30] Voice 1: come forward to to have their tup approved and i like you know i talked with them a little bit

[0:29:36] Voice 1: bit before um and i mean to be when we're when we're when we know we're going to be removing

[0:29:43] Voice 1: the tup it it sucks a little bit to be still applying that process to to people who

[0:29:50] Voice 1: you know

[0:29:51] Voice 1: if they just wait won't have to do it but i don't want to necessarily have to make them

[0:29:55] Voice 1: wait for the entire project to conclude which could take some time

[0:29:58] Voice 1: Bye-bye.

[0:30:00] Voice 1: but i don't know if that's how that works so yeah

[0:30:03] Planner Chadwick: so um so there's so there's two things to think

[0:30:07] Planner Chadwick: about one is just general process of changing bylaws as you know it takes time so that even

[0:30:15] Planner Chadwick: if we were just going to make one change right now um you know we're looking three months four

[0:30:21] Planner Chadwick: months ahead potentially right like because it's got to go it's got to go the draft's got to come

[0:30:27] Planner Chadwick: to you got to discuss the draft if you have to make changes you may have to make changes then

[0:30:31] Planner Chadwick: um then it goes through readings right so we're already looking potentially into the summer where

[0:30:36] Planner Chadwick: you would have one thing done um um um the way that this project you know it's an ambitious

[0:30:45] Planner Chadwick: timeline it's looking at the end of the year having the suite of things done that's you know

[0:30:49] Planner Chadwick: communities happy you're happy supporting all the things you're not getting pushed back on things

[0:30:55] Planner Chadwick: there's nothing controversial there is an opportunity um like you know as we move through

[0:30:59] Planner Chadwick: maybe you want to think about the things that are a little bit more controversial because there could

[0:31:03] Planner Chadwick: be an opportunity to do like what i would recommend is if there are particularly like i don't i don't

[0:31:09] Planner Chadwick: recommend pulling one thing out and moving ahead because that's just going to be you're just going

[0:31:13] Planner Chadwick: to push the rest of it ahead um but but maybe if if there are things that you think are going to be

[0:31:19] Planner Chadwick: be particularly controversial then you could think about doing a part one and a part two

[0:31:25] Planner Chadwick: so

[0:31:25] Voice 1: you're not getting hung up

[0:31:26] Voice 1: yeah on

[0:31:28] Planner Chadwick: things and that you're just able to like do this chunk

[0:31:31] Planner Chadwick: because i mean removing you know things i mean my impression is there seems to be a fair amount

[0:31:37] Planner Chadwick: of consensus on a number of things um um so you know you may want to yeah so maybe you want to do

[0:31:44] Planner Chadwick: two parts but you know think about you know where your your hold up points might be totally yeah no

[0:31:51] Voice 1: and that's i guess partly why i'm i'm asking the question to some degree and i and i wouldn't do

[0:31:58] Voice 1: this with just one thing like that this week i'd want to pull out a raft of things that we know

[0:32:02] Voice 1: hey look these aren't terribly controversial we can make these changes relatively straightforward

[0:32:07] Voice 1: let's not have those held up by the by the sticking point is is i guess what i'm sort of

[0:32:12] Voice 1: trying to grasp that and uh you know it might be that those things are easier to to you know

[0:32:18] Voice 1: advance together um i'm this is just my own unfamiliarity with the sort of tactical approach

[0:32:25] Voice 1: to how you want to make changes to to bylaw as opposed to the procedure which i am starting to

[0:32:34] Voice 1: understand but sometimes there's better ways to do it to make sure that stuff just is as efficient

[0:32:39] Voice 1: as possible but yeah anyways i don't want to derail this too much we can come back to this

[0:32:44] Voice 1: later yeah

[0:32:44] Planner Chadwick: but super good point and it's something to like kind of keep in your mind as we move

[0:32:49] Planner Chadwick: move forward like if there's ones where it's just like oh that yeah that might hold up the whole

[0:32:53] Planner Chadwick: thing then you might want to just park it well

[0:32:55] Voice 1: and if there's stuff that's doing harm right now

[0:32:57] Voice 1: that we know is is not difficult to change yeah it

[0:33:00] Voice 1: would be lovely to get that off the off the

[0:33:03] Voice 1: table and then we can move on to to the stuff that's maybe less of a priority um

[0:33:07] Planner Chadwick: immediately

[0:33:08] Voice 1: immediately

[0:33:09] Planner Chadwick: so

[0:33:10] Voice 1: anyways yeah

[0:33:11] Planner Chadwick: yeah for sure there's all like there's a number of different ways to do

[0:33:14] Planner Chadwick: it right so yeah um so this one's this eliminate the density bank so one of the key things here

[0:33:22] Planner Chadwick: is like if you do support the recommendations around adus etc then you absolutely would have

[0:33:31] Planner Chadwick: to either remove or increase um the density bank so that's it's just uh if you don't want to do

[0:33:42] Planner Chadwick: yeah there's very limited stuff you can do within the existing um remaining density which is seven

[0:33:49] Voice 1: um i was just and i've been thinking about this because i was talking with someone about it the

[0:33:53] Voice 1: other day um so with regards to the density bank in general yeah i mean there's you know there's

[0:33:58] Voice 1: seven densities left that's obviously not a whole bunch to play with and as you say there's you know

[0:34:03] Voice 1: it would have to be altered to to allow for a lot of what else is happening um i would love to get

[0:34:11] Voice 1: like uh um and maybe this is a request for like a staff report on on the the the density bank i

[0:34:19] Planner Chadwick: don't know that we

[0:34:19] Voice 1: necessarily need that i think we've got a fairly good understanding but um

[0:34:23] Voice 1: Um, looking at what, cause I, well, I think it, I think, I think the, the impression that

[0:34:33] Voice 1: I've had is that, uh, the density bank has ultimately not really done what it was set

[0:34:38] Voice 1: out to do to some degree, um, or at least is no longer, uh, providing that benefit.

[0:34:46] Voice 1: And it was sort of just understanding what the ramifications or what alternatives might

[0:34:50] Voice 1: be, I guess.

[0:34:51] Voice 1: um but i mean and yeah sorry i feel like i had a clear point and it's been derailed a little bit

[0:34:59] Voice 1: but well

[0:35:00] Planner Chadwick: it sounds like you you want to think a little bit more about like do you need some more

[0:35:04] Planner Chadwick: information about the density bank so i don't

[0:35:07] Voice 1: i don't know that i do i i sort of i'm kind of

[0:35:09] Voice 1: floating this a little bit to get what my my fellow trustees are are thinking and and and

[0:35:14] Voice 1: your thoughts too marissa um like

[0:35:16] Voice 1: is there any is there a version of the density bank that would

[0:35:19] Voice 1: be worth keeping or is it kind of just not not is it kind of just not going to be what we need

[0:35:28] Voice 6: happy to jump

[0:35:29] Voice 1: in my question yeah

[0:35:30] Voice 6: when you're done yeah so um we're not proposing to increase the

[0:35:39] Voice 6: number of legal lots other than as uh the staff has suggested that we may look at uh allowing

[0:35:47] Voice 6: someone to subdivide their property if the the larger portion or the portion of the property

[0:35:53] Voice 6: that they wouldn't be living on would be used specifically for a multi-unit affordable housing

[0:35:58] Voice 6: development other than that we're not increasing the number of lots and we've already had in our

[0:36:03] Voice 6: official community plan an estimation a rough estimation of the number of people if everybody

[0:36:07] Voice 6: was living on the legal lots that exist back then we haven't increased those lots so that number

[0:36:13] Voice 6: it continues to be around 2 000 which is based on an average blah blah blah times the number of

[0:36:20] Voice 6: of legal lots. But you can't deny that these changes will increase the number of people on

[0:36:26] Voice 6: Demand. Is it a substantial number? My sense is not that many people want to share land. So right

[0:36:33] Voice 6: off the bat, it's not like a really popular thing to do. And so it's not going to be a large number.

[0:36:38] Voice 6: But the Density Bank was an artificially created bank, which kind of made sense at the time.

[0:36:44] Voice 6: And it doesn't make sense anymore. So I would be quite happy to see the end of the Density Bank.

[0:36:49] Voice 6: and not really worry too much about it, and certainly address those questions and fears

[0:36:54] Voice 6: that we will hear from our constituents about the explosion of population on Denver because

[0:36:59] Voice 6: of these changes. And so we just need to be prepared to have science and real estimations

[0:37:05] Voice 6: of how many ADUs we actually expect to see. End of story. Yeah.

[0:37:11] Voice 1: Yeah. And that's where I've been

[0:37:13] Voice 1: in with it too um and i just yeah i sort of wanted to have had that conversation explicitly

[0:37:20] Voice 1: because we're not allowed to talk about it otherwise well not

[0:37:23] Planner Chadwick: really so

[0:37:24] Voice 1: um

[0:37:25] Planner Chadwick: um so yeah i

[0:37:28] Planner Chadwick: think you make some good points there and um in particular the one that you know it's going to

[0:37:33] Planner Chadwick: create a lot of potential um for units to be uh built but the reality uh related to cost

[0:37:42] Planner Chadwick: cost to build and people who are actually interested

[0:37:44] Planner Chadwick: in building

[0:37:47] Planner Chadwick: and renting or what have you

[0:37:49] Planner Chadwick: is

[0:37:50] Planner Chadwick: maybe not that high.

[0:37:54] Planner Chadwick: Yeah.

[0:37:56] Planner Chadwick: I mean, it seems as well

[0:37:58] Planner Chadwick: really there are

[0:38:00] Planner Chadwick: already these arrangements on

[0:38:02] Planner Chadwick: Denman.

[0:38:04] Planner Chadwick: So really, it's really about

[0:38:06] Planner Chadwick: legalizing those.

[0:38:08] Voice 1: I

[0:38:08] Planner Chadwick: know a couple myself.

[0:38:10] Planner Chadwick: myself, so. Okay, so what I'm hearing is, yes, eliminate the density bank?

[0:38:20] Voice 5: Yeah.

[0:38:22] Planner Chadwick: Okay. Yeah, so here's the, this is the vacation rental one. So this is really one

[0:38:36] Planner Chadwick: to dig into a bit, and it's related, again, to the review of the, you know, the report that came

[0:38:47] Planner Chadwick: from Sonia related to the provincial regulations and we can have more discussion about you know

[0:38:52] Planner Chadwick: whether you want to go that route or not the you know the and I think I'm understanding the

[0:39:01] Planner Chadwick: intention the interest in Denman is to just to be allowing people to basically rent out rooms in

[0:39:07] Planner Chadwick: their homes sort of the traditional B&B approach there's other approaches to to think about as

[0:39:16] Planner Chadwick: well you know does that does that mean you can rent out um um your secondary so the way the

[0:39:23] Planner Chadwick: provincial regulation um is set up right now is that uh you can only rent you can rent out

[0:39:30] Planner Chadwick: uh you can only rent if if you are if it rent out you can rent out your secondary suite you could

[0:39:36] Planner Chadwick: rent out a uh an additional dwelling unit you can rent out a room in your house if it's your primary

[0:39:42] Planner Chadwick: residents that's the way the the basic gist of the um of the provincial regulation um um so

[0:39:53] Planner Chadwick: that excludes people who are um you know have vacation you know secondary homes and are using

[0:40:01] Planner Chadwick: them for um uh vacation rentals um that may be a little bit broader than what where you want to go

[0:40:09] Planner Chadwick: go to so i think in this case you'll you know you can have more discussion about it or um to decide

[0:40:16] Planner Chadwick: what it is you want and then we can or whether you want whether you need to take it out to the

[0:40:21] Planner Chadwick: community further or what have you because it it could be it could be a bigger issue it

[0:40:25] Planner Chadwick: it may warrant a bigger process so i'm

[0:40:29] Trustee Maude: interested to know

[0:40:30] Planner Chadwick: what your your feelings are about it

[0:40:32] Planner Chadwick: generally i

[0:40:33] Trustee Maude: i think that that uh mr dingman had offered to sort of write a report that's

[0:40:40] Trustee Maude: going to be brought to our next meeting about the whole stbr issue is that

[0:40:43] Trustee Maude: what i got out of the

[0:40:44] Trustee Maude: last meeting yeah

[0:40:45] Planner Chadwick: so right now the way that the you know we had a legal opinion sometime back right

[0:40:49] Planner Chadwick: um the way that the bylaw is written um it it it it's not restricting it's not restricting

[0:40:57] Planner Chadwick: vacation rentals in the way that i think is intended because it potentially means that

[0:41:02] Planner Chadwick: you know anybody can rent anything um just because there's some words missing right so

[0:41:08] Planner Chadwick: So I think Warren's going to come back, I think, with some more details around that.

[0:41:16] Planner Chadwick: And, you know, you can decide from there, really.

[0:41:18] Planner Chadwick: Like, I think that's one thing to, you know, maybe decide after you get that analysis back, whether you want to.

[0:41:25] Planner Chadwick: If it's a quick, if it's easy for you, I would say keep it in this project.

[0:41:30] Planner Chadwick: If it feels more challenging, then I would take it out, separate it.

[0:41:35] Voice 6: Good advice. I like that.

[0:41:36] Voice 6: Yeah, and

[0:41:39] Planner Chadwick: I think it could potentially be done as a minor project, because I think the farm, now that the farm one's over.

[0:41:47] Voice 5: Yeah.

[0:41:48] Planner Chadwick: So, so I will just put to be continued on

[0:41:55] Voice 7: my notes here.

[0:41:57] Voice 7: Okay.

[0:42:03] Planner Chadwick: Oh yeah, so these are the staff considerations.

[0:42:06] Planner Chadwick: considerations um so permit subdivision where uh dwellings are permit are permitted if the land is

[0:42:13] Planner Chadwick: is being donated for not-for-profit or uh government agency providing housing so that's

[0:42:19] Planner Chadwick: your like uh you know allowing in areas where uh subdivision isn't currently allowed uh to allow

[0:42:28] Planner Chadwick: allow the subdivision only if it's going to be donated to an agency that's going to be providing

[0:42:37] Planner Chadwick: affordable housing.

[0:42:40] Voice 6: Nerissa is this based on some examples in the trust area where people have

[0:42:45] Voice 6: actually offered to donate a portion of their land for an affordable housing project?

[0:42:51] Planner Chadwick: Yeah so

[0:42:52] Planner Chadwick: well we had we sort of had we had we had one on main island but that in that case it was yeah so

[0:42:59] Planner Chadwick: had a rezoning to subdivide so that the land was not able to be rezoned so there was a rezoning to

[0:43:06] Planner Chadwick: subdivide to allow for a donation of land there was an additional in that case there was an

[0:43:11] Planner Chadwick: additional um lot as well um but to so in so in that case they had to um um the the um the ocp

[0:43:25] Planner Chadwick: allows for that to happen

[0:43:29] Planner Chadwick: if there is an amenity being provided to the community.

[0:43:33] Planner Chadwick: In this case, the amenity was housing. So you can allow it

[0:43:36] Planner Chadwick: in the OCP and it could be done on a case-by-case

[0:43:40] Planner Chadwick: basis.

[0:43:42] Voice 6: Yeah. So we already allow that if

[0:43:45] Voice 6: the land is being donated for conservation purposes. So it would just be

[0:43:48] Voice 6: an

[0:43:49] Voice 5: addition to that

[0:43:50] Voice 6: policy. So for conservation purposes or

[0:43:52] Voice 6: for a donation for a non-profit multi-unit development by a non-profit or

[0:43:58] Planner Chadwick: not not necessarily

[0:43:59] Planner Chadwick: even multi-unit right like if you had

[0:44:00] Voice 6: okay it could be like one you

[0:44:02] Planner Chadwick: know like it could be a

[0:44:03] Voice 6: very small portion

[0:44:04] Planner Chadwick: of land per single

[0:44:06] Planner Chadwick: unit that was going to

[0:44:07] Planner Chadwick: be you know built and operated by a

[0:44:10] Planner Chadwick: non-profit or a government organization but

[0:44:15] Voice 6: we would look at those separately this is just an

[0:44:16] Voice 6: this is a policy that would enable yeah someone to build out on that route okay yeah i like that

[0:44:23] Voice 6: idea actually yeah yeah

[0:44:24] Planner Chadwick: yeah and again it would be case by case so yeah it's not you're not rezoning

[0:44:29] Planner Chadwick: to allow it in the land use bylaw right

[0:44:32] Voice 4: yeah

[0:44:33] Planner Chadwick: and yeah and in that case um like we do have um

[0:44:39] Planner Chadwick: we have uh um islands trust has a a policy to um you know uh support basically cover the

[0:44:50] Planner Chadwick: costs of non-profit you know if it if a project is is seen to be a contribution to the community so

[0:44:57] Planner Chadwick: there'd that be that opportunity for the non-profit to get the fees for rezoning covered

[0:45:07] Planner Chadwick: um so in that similar vein um you know this the second recommendation would allow for for uh the

[0:45:17] Planner Chadwick: reduction of parcel size so if if you're gonna allow for uh the subdivision of a piece of land

[0:45:23] Planner Chadwick: for a donation um you could also be allowing a a smaller parcel size so you know if you've got

[0:45:32] Planner Chadwick: you know in the rural area or whatever where the minimum is you know larger you could be allowing

[0:45:38] Planner Chadwick: a smaller and and this would be like i know when we were talking to habitat for humanity they're

[0:45:44] Planner Chadwick: are quite intimidated like the the minimum parcel size and is a one hectare on main um in the in an

[0:45:51] Planner Chadwick: area that we were looking at a potential option but um it's quite intimidating it's quite an

[0:45:56] Planner Chadwick: intimidating size of uh lot for a non-profit so seeing

[0:46:05] Voice 6: that makes sense yeah that's good yeah

[0:46:07] Voice 6: so

[0:46:09] Planner Chadwick: i mean with all of these you know i think once we get to the end of this you'll i think

[0:46:14] Planner Chadwick: there'll be a few different decisions one will be if you think there's

[0:46:18] Planner Chadwick: additional you know additional community engagement in what kind and also you

[0:46:27] Planner Chadwick: know whether you want to go with easier yeah if you want to if there are easier

[0:46:32] Planner Chadwick: ones you know if you want to have a separated process that may be something

[0:46:36] Planner Chadwick: to consider as well but basically everything that you're saying yes to on

[0:46:42] Planner Chadwick: um on the if you want to go through community the option would be we could move straight to draft

[0:46:50] Planner Chadwick: bylaws or or you go through a community process if you have any um or you can choose you can choose

[0:46:57] Planner Chadwick: which ones you want to go to a community process with that's also just put that out there so that

[0:47:02] Planner Chadwick: you know where we're heading um um okay and so this is this this is one this is a this is a more

[0:47:11] Planner Chadwick: more of a even like a like this is where you're basically restricting subdivision unless it's

[0:47:21] Planner Chadwick: being donated for affordable housing so that this is a much heavier kind of tool would this affect

[0:47:32] Voice 6: parcels that are now large enough to be subdivided and this would stop that so we would be removing

[0:47:40] Voice 6: leaving a right that previously existed i thought that was difficult to do you can

[0:47:45] Planner Chadwick: do it it's it's

[0:47:46] Planner Chadwick: controversial right so it's extremely controversial um and so that's where i say i'm only putting

[0:47:53] Planner Chadwick: these out there because i identify them as options it's not necessarily that i you know

[0:47:58] Planner Chadwick: i'm i'm encouraging or supporting they're just options um and yeah so in this case you basically

[0:48:06] Planner Chadwick: be down zoning is a term that's often used so properties that that could have

[0:48:13] Planner Chadwick: could be subdivided into three are no longer able to be subdivided and you can

[0:48:19] Planner Chadwick: do that unless you so basically you can down zone until the point at which you

[0:48:24] Planner Chadwick: are removing value from the land so you can't change for example a residential

[0:48:29] Planner Chadwick: property into a

[0:48:32] Planner Chadwick: for

[0:48:34] Planner Chadwick: conservation

[0:48:34] Planner Chadwick: unless it's been donated for that purpose

[0:48:38] Planner Chadwick: but

[0:48:39] Voice 6: you are affecting

[0:48:40] Voice 6: the value of the land if you

[0:48:42] Voice 6: tell the landowner no I'm sorry you can

[0:48:44] Voice 6: only subdivide now

[0:48:46] Voice 6: if the other parcel is

[0:48:48] Voice 6: designated affordable housing

[0:48:50] Voice 6: so that they have taken a financial

[0:48:52] Voice 6: hit

[0:48:53] Voice 6: you can do that

[0:48:55] Voice 6: you can do that

[0:48:57] Voice 6: Yeah. Well, let's put it in there and test the waters. I love this idea because this does really

[0:49:02] Voice 6: speak to not encouraging more market housing on demo. We're aiming at affordable housing.

[0:49:08] Voice 6: Yeah. I don't have a problem with this. Okay. So I'm putting-

[0:49:13] Voice 1: I can,

[0:49:14] Voice 1: and this is just an outward facing note here, Nerissa, because especially if

[0:49:22] Voice 1: at the top of this table, it does say staff recommended options.

[0:49:26] Voice 1: Oh, right.

[0:49:27] Voice 1: right and which is fine um identified

[0:49:29] Planner Chadwick: options yeah yeah i

[0:49:30] Planner Chadwick: don't want to put myself out there

[0:49:32] Planner Chadwick: yeah

[0:49:32] Voice 1: i just want to make sure that you're yeah because i know i know that there is you know

[0:49:37] Voice 1: narratives out there and i'd like to make sure that you're not unduly in the crosshairs so

[0:49:42] Planner Chadwick: yes good point thanks for pointing that out because yeah my intention is to uh just identify

[0:49:46] Planner Chadwick: ideas yeah uh to consider so recommended to consider is really really uh staff

[0:49:52] Voice 1: identified

[0:49:54] Voice 1: identified is is great staff identified works like hey these are this is stuff that can happen

[0:49:59] Voice 1: yeah so

[0:50:00] Planner Chadwick: i'm gonna say staff identified i'm gonna change that

[0:50:03] Voice 1: just if it helps thank

[0:50:05] Planner Chadwick: you it totally

[0:50:05] Planner Chadwick: does thank you very much uh yeah because i don't want to never be able to come back to denman

[0:50:12] Planner Chadwick: yeah well

[0:50:13] Planner Chadwick: um but uh well it's not my decision in the end anyways

[0:50:23] Planner Chadwick: So here's another, so requiring workforce housing as a condition of rezoning for commercial institutional purposes. Again, this is, you know, whatever, don't know what kind of opportunity there would be on Denman, but it's a fairly, you know, it's something that we're kind of recommending for, well, these days, so many local governments are doing this now, well, in rural areas, particularly.

[0:50:49] Planner Chadwick: Because

[0:50:50] Voice 6: for agricultural purposes, that would be brilliant.

[0:50:55] Voice 6: I know the ALR has had this.

[0:50:58] Voice 6: You can apply for extra farm housing if you have an approved agricultural plan on ALR land.

[0:51:03] Voice 6: But this perhaps would work on the residential lots.

[0:51:06] Voice 6: If somebody said, no, this is where I want to farm, I'm going to need five or six full-time workers.

[0:51:12] Voice 6: Are we suggesting that we would consider dwellings for those farm workers on that parcel of land being used for farming?

[0:51:22] Planner Chadwick: No, so this one really speaks more to things like I want to build a, I want to rezone my property for a restaurant, for example.

[0:51:41] Planner Chadwick: um so then there'd have to be the consideration of of of uh workers housing or maybe that's not

[0:51:48] Planner Chadwick: a good example because it's small but like um in in or a multi-unit um vacation um commercial

[0:51:55] Planner Chadwick: vacation operation which is not

[0:51:59] Planner Chadwick: not realistic on denman either so you know i

[0:52:02] Voice 5: don't know i don't

[0:52:03] Planner Chadwick: know on denman if there's a lot of um real examples where this may be an option it's it's it's

[0:52:10] Planner Chadwick: It's something, you know, it's something, you know, like Maine, for example, there's a rezoning for, you know, an existing, a previously existing commercial vacation operation, resort operation, right?

[0:52:29] Planner Chadwick: So, you know, that's where,

[0:52:31] Planner Chadwick: that kind of context is where it would fall.

[0:52:33] Planner Chadwick: Right.

[0:52:35] Planner Chadwick: But it doesn't hurt to just put it into the OCP?

[0:52:38] Voice 6: It's just an OCP policy.

[0:52:39] Planner Chadwick: Yeah.

[0:52:40] Voice 6: Yeah.

[0:52:40] Voice 6: yeah

[0:52:41] Planner Chadwick: just to allow it or to to require it uh and it can be

[0:52:46] Planner Chadwick: you know you can identify what size of

[0:52:48] Planner Chadwick: operation or what have you yeah

[0:52:52] Voice 6: i wouldn't put i wouldn't be wasting too much of your time

[0:52:54] Voice 6: drafting that personally yeah

[0:52:55] Planner Chadwick: okay okay i'll put limited interest yeah yeah okay so i heard two

[0:53:04] Planner Chadwick: yeses so i yeah

[0:53:05] Voice 1: yeah no no i'm in line with david um

[0:53:08] Planner Chadwick: and and so this one here is maybe getting well

[0:53:12] Planner Chadwick: Well, this is about exclusion from ALR.

[0:53:14] Planner Chadwick: So right now, any local governments need to apply for land to be excluded.

[0:53:19] Planner Chadwick: So a property owner themselves has to approach the local government.

[0:53:23] Planner Chadwick: The local government essentially does the application.

[0:53:26] Planner Chadwick: It's not an easy process.

[0:53:31] Planner Chadwick: If you want to ensure that land is only excluded for affordable housing, then those are the kinds of policies that you could put in to your OCP.

[0:53:41] Voice 6: Right now, our policy says without demonstrable community benefit. So I would argue that an affordable housing development is a demonstrable community benefit.

[0:53:53] Planner Chadwick: Yeah. So you basically feel like you've got what you need.

[0:53:56] Voice 6: I think we do.

[0:53:57] Planner Chadwick: And I can just review it.

[0:53:59] Voice 6: Yeah. Just to make sure that you feel it's strong enough.

[0:54:02] Voice 6: Okay.

[0:54:02] Voice 6: Or it would capture that particular community benefit.

[0:54:06] Voice 6: of okay

[0:54:09] Planner Chadwick: so now we're moving into the sort of multi-tenant multi-land ownership stuff yeah

[0:54:14] Planner Chadwick: this is uh this is the um the larger housing projects um and so some of these are process

[0:54:21] Planner Chadwick: related um the expediting approvals um well there is an op there is an opportunity where if you

[0:54:32] Planner Chadwick: know of areas that would be perfect for uh multi-family housing um again you know i keep

[0:54:40] Planner Chadwick: referring to to maine island because i know maine the best um like on maine for example they've got

[0:54:46] Planner Chadwick: uh land that's pre-zoned for uh right now well it's being changed from specifically seniors a

[0:54:54] Planner Chadwick: multi multi-unit it's specified for seniors but it's going to be more flexible um

[0:54:59] Planner Chadwick: um um there's a so there's that that's an example of an area that's been pre-zoned um it's been

[0:55:08] Planner Chadwick: like that for many years hasn't it uh david no don't know when that that i can't remember when

[0:55:13] Planner Chadwick: that that was first uh rezoned

[0:55:17] Trustee Maude: it's a good 20 years at least

[0:55:19] Planner Chadwick: yeah yeah so it's there and and

[0:55:21] Planner Chadwick: the benefit of that is that like you know now we're having some conversations with habitat for

[0:55:26] Planner Chadwick: humanity and that area is already zoned and so you know a bunch of houses came up that we that

[0:55:32] Planner Chadwick: that they were like can we move these over to that property um that was uh we could actually

[0:55:39] Planner Chadwick: engage in that discussion because it wouldn't require a lengthy rezoning process so um this

[0:55:47] Planner Chadwick: would be one of those um um you know you could you could be um um there's a couple of things

[0:55:58] Planner Chadwick: you could be doing you could just you could be supporting the rezoning of land in the ocp

[0:56:03] Planner Chadwick: for um for multi-family housing and you could even go as far as to to pre-zone the land if

[0:56:10] Planner Chadwick: you know that there's land that that would be suitable you

[0:56:14] Voice 6: can't pre-zone privately owned

[0:56:17] Voice 6: land though can't you you can well with with with the permission of the owner obviously you actually

[0:56:25] Planner Chadwick: actually don't need to have the permission of the owner but it's the nice thing to do

[0:56:28] Planner Chadwick: i

[0:56:29] Voice 6: would think so oh my goodness yeah i

[0:56:33] Planner Chadwick: mean pre-zoning it doesn't require in fact you add

[0:56:36] Planner Chadwick: a ton of value to their land um really like if you're just if you're just um pre-zoning for

[0:56:42] Planner Chadwick: multi for multi for multi-unit you can do that and you add a ton of value to their land i believe

[0:56:47] Planner Chadwick: it's been done on gabriola um but what you're not at this point doing is requiring like housing

[0:56:55] Planner Chadwick: agreements or anything like that until any yeah you're just pre-zoning you're just allowing that

[0:57:01] Voice 6: to happen we can't pre-zone land in the agricultural land reserve uh

[0:57:05] Planner Chadwick: no you're limited

[0:57:06] Planner Chadwick: to what's allowed uh within the um by the uh the alc okay

[0:57:12] Voice 6: yeah

[0:57:13] Planner Chadwick: yeah so i mean in this case it may

[0:57:16] Planner Chadwick: be like uh uh you know you may you may just want to go with the the ocp policy just allowing it to

[0:57:24] Planner Chadwick: the rezoning um unless unless you're thinking oh yeah we've always wanted this we always thought

[0:57:31] Planner Chadwick: this was an ideal piece of land we know it's got water blah blah blah you know yeah

[0:57:35] Voice 6: i would be okay

[0:57:38] Voice 6: with an ocp i i don't i don't know of any parcels that are in the downtown area that aren't in the

[0:57:44] Voice 6: alr or institutionally zoned so that's our problem right there oh

[0:57:55] Voice 7: sorry just uh on my

[0:57:58] Voice 7: notes here so i can make a note a

[0:58:15] Voice 6: suitable land yeah sla we could have that layer of zoning

[0:58:21] Voice 6: obviously um

[0:58:23] Planner Chadwick: yeah i mean that might identify you know that'll tell you where it's good right

[0:58:27] Planner Chadwick: potentially if

[0:58:29] Voice 6: nothing else that would be that would be a useful tool yeah okay

[0:58:32] Voice 6: yeah okay so

[0:58:34] Planner Chadwick: So I'm hearing, yeah, maybe not ready to take the pre-zone.

[0:58:37] Planner Chadwick: And, you know, that could take more time to that piece

[0:58:40] Planner Chadwick: because you're getting into details there.

[0:58:42] Planner Chadwick: I mean, that's just like the pre-zoning or the site-specific zoning,

[0:58:49] Planner Chadwick: the ADUs that might not be captured by the fleet of changes.

[0:58:57] Planner Chadwick: That would be

[0:58:58] Planner Chadwick: sort of a step two.

[0:59:00] Planner Chadwick: yeah um yeah so here as well like this sort of medium density this is where you're um potentially

[0:59:11] Planner Chadwick: identifying land where um where there could be duplexes for example or triplexes you know multi

[0:59:22] Planner Chadwick: um multi-unit four units um that kind of thing i

[0:59:31] Voice 6: don't think the community is

[0:59:32] Voice 6: going to be very happy with that idea the distributed floor plan is an idea that seems

[0:59:38] Voice 6: to get a lot of support and i'd rather just look at that rather than trying to find these

[0:59:44] Voice 6: definitions which really don't apply to a rural

[0:59:47] Planner Chadwick: environment i mean it could be that's why the

[0:59:50] Planner Chadwick: hapc didn't didn't really have a lot of detail to provide they just um they just said yeah that

[0:59:55] Planner Chadwick: you know more housing is good housing is good sort of thing so um

[0:59:59] Planner Chadwick: I don't know.

[1:00:00] Planner Chadwick: again that would that would i think require a few more a bit more focused thinking i

[1:00:04] Voice 6: think so um

[1:00:06] Planner Chadwick: and these other ones too uh home home-based assisted living zone i mean this is very specific

[1:00:12] Planner Chadwick: um specific uh areas and i don't know if the hjpc had specific specific ideas in mind um but you can

[1:00:22] Planner Chadwick: absolutely put um ocp policies that allow for the rezoning of areas to support whatever specific

[1:00:29] Planner Chadwick: kind of housing um but to actually go and zone for it that you know that requires knowing where

[1:00:37] Planner Chadwick: you want to be doing a particular thing yeah

[1:00:41] Voice 3: um

[1:00:43] Planner Chadwick: so that's a yep for well

[1:00:46] Voice 6: i know that there's going

[1:00:47] Voice 6: to be an application by the uh um one of the uh non-profits for an abbeyfield type dwelling on

[1:00:56] Voice 6: some land that's that's being donated to them so that that might actually create the zone that

[1:01:01] Voice 6: that this speaks to through that process.

[1:01:04] Voice 6: So let's

[1:01:05] Voice 4: keep our

[1:01:06] Voice 6: ears open for that one to run its course.

[1:01:09] Planner Chadwick: We can just make sure that the OCP

[1:01:12] Planner Chadwick: would support that type of a development.

[1:01:14] Voice 6: Yeah, we do need to,

[1:01:15] Voice 6: yeah.

[1:01:17] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, that there's no- Enabling

[1:01:18] Voice 6: OCP policies, right.

[1:01:23] Planner Chadwick: And this idea of pre-zoning for tiny home village,

[1:01:26] Planner Chadwick: again, that's where, if you know there's land,

[1:01:28] Planner Chadwick: And, you know, this is the opportunity to rezone the land

[1:01:34] Planner Chadwick: without the landowner having to go through a process.

[1:01:37] Planner Chadwick: But I don't know that that is the case.

[1:01:40] Voice 1: Well, maybe.

[1:01:41] Voice 1: Go ahead, Sam.

[1:01:43] Voice 1: I may know of a place.

[1:01:44] Voice 1: I haven't spoken to this person since last year,

[1:01:48] Voice 1: so I need to touch base again.

[1:01:50] Voice 1: But I think there's potential interest.

[1:01:53] Voice 1: It may not be quite like tiny home village necessarily,

[1:01:56] Voice 1: necessarily but something along those lines i think could be interesting so um i'd be interested

[1:02:03] Voice 1: i and if there's ways to um yeah if there's ways for us to undertake that uh that that makes that

[1:02:11] Voice 1: easier for for an applicant uh who is intending to do that i think that'd be interested in looking

[1:02:16] Voice 1: at how that works but okay you know i also don't want to give undue benefits to people necessarily

[1:02:23] Planner Chadwick: Yeah. So this is where, again, OCP policies, making sure that the LCP policies would support that kind of arrangement.

[1:02:33] Planner Chadwick: And that's where we're talking about, you know, potentially shared facilities.

[1:02:40] Voice 5: Yeah.

[1:02:41] Planner Chadwick: And that's not something that I think is actively supported right now.

[1:02:49] Planner Chadwick: So we can have a look at that in the OCP.

[1:02:53] Voice 6: Yeah.

[1:02:53] Voice 6: Okay,

[1:02:54] Planner Chadwick: so I'm going to focus OCP for that. Again, EcoZone, it's the same idea, right? This is where the HAPC has an idea of types of living arrangements, and really what you need to be doing is just allowing for rezoning for unique housing arrangements, living arrangements, essentially, right?

[1:03:19] Planner Chadwick: Right. I

[1:03:19] Voice 6: think we need to be flexible in the definition of principal dwellings.

[1:03:23] Voice 6: And if we if we include tiny homes, eco homes, whatever homes, then we cover all bases.

[1:03:30] Voice 6: If we start to try and define each type of development, then it gets really complicated.

[1:03:36] Voice 4: I

[1:03:36] Voice 6: might. Yeah. One of the successes of the coho development is in the application.

[1:03:41] Voice 6: They never defined what the dwellings were. They simply said we will service 15 areas for whatever.

[1:03:49] Voice 6: And that's why it works so very, very well.

[1:03:51] Voice 4: Right.

[1:03:52] Voice 4: Yeah.

[1:03:53] Voice 6: So let's learn by the positive examples that we have on Demand.

[1:03:56] Voice 6: The other

[1:03:57] Voice 6: example, you know, these, we have, you know,

[1:03:59] Voice 6: unfortunately two areas that are zoned, already zoned,

[1:04:02] Voice 6: but they were very prescriptive in their zoning.

[1:04:05] Voice 6: So they now have to build, which is hugely, I mean,

[1:04:09] Voice 6: we're talking millions and millions and millions of dollars.

[1:04:11] Voice 6: So if they don't get the dollars, that zoning is going to have to change

[1:04:15] Voice 6: if they ever want to use that land um like a coho development so and that's unfortunate but anyway

[1:04:20] Voice 6: that's that's the reality um

[1:04:24] Planner Chadwick: yeah and that's where um um you have the opportunity in this project

[1:04:29] Planner Chadwick: to um review the zoning for those and potentially create more flexible zoning i'd be interested to

[1:04:36] Planner Chadwick: see

[1:04:36] Voice 1: if there's some options we can create for those places because i think that could be

[1:04:40] Voice 1: valued yeah

[1:04:42] Planner Chadwick: yeah and so that's one of the the things on here um that's this one here

[1:04:47] Planner Chadwick: review zoning of properties

[1:04:50] Voice 1: that are currently

[1:04:51] Planner Chadwick: zoned for multi-dwellings

[1:04:53] Voice 1: okay gotcha perfect

[1:04:54] Voice 1: thank you yeah

[1:04:56] Planner Chadwick: so that's where you can um um you can look at those ones so i mean you're thinking

[1:05:08] Planner Chadwick: like denman green for example right exactly

[1:05:12] Voice 6: so

[1:05:13] Planner Chadwick: that's where so they're they're allowed a certain

[1:05:15] Planner Chadwick: amount of density right

[1:05:17] Voice 6: so

[1:05:18] Planner Chadwick: you can look at that and you could you can make you can make it the

[1:05:22] Planner Chadwick: the actual development uh like what could actually go there within that amount of density more

[1:05:28] Planner Chadwick: flexible exactly

[1:05:30] Voice 6: that's assuming they don't get the money and they'll know this spring i know that

[1:05:34] Voice 6: uh they're hoping to get they're going

[1:05:36] Planner Chadwick: for bc housing funding yeah

[1:05:39] Voice 6: yeah they've been told that

[1:05:40] Voice 6: they'll they'll find out this spring and we all know i don't want to say yeah

[1:05:45] Planner Chadwick: you don't want to

[1:05:45] Voice 6: say it

[1:05:45] Planner Chadwick: but it's it's it's difficult for the islands um it's

[1:05:49] Voice 6: very difficult for the island

[1:05:50] Voice 6: yeah

[1:05:50] Planner Chadwick: and i think they're also competing all against each other of course

[1:05:54] Voice 6: there's a limited

[1:05:55] Voice 6: pot yeah

[1:05:56] Planner Chadwick: exactly so it it's likely that if one yeah that if any of them get it it'll maybe one

[1:06:05] Planner Chadwick: so yeah yeah

[1:06:08] Planner Chadwick: um oh yeah so this was a question i had for you um this this allowing variations in

[1:06:15] Planner Chadwick: in in housing that supports the use of of shared facilities so i i don't know if this is something

[1:06:20] Planner Chadwick: you want to look at um oh

[1:06:23] Voice 6: yeah we've been talking about this for decades this idea of a common

[1:06:26] Voice 6: common uh facilities and kind of a pod arrangement where people have a bedroom a bathroom and a small

[1:06:34] Voice 6: living area but they share the laundry and the kitchen and and a gigantic dining room and we

[1:06:40] Voice 6: call it a pod house and i actually think our current bylaws would actually would allow that

[1:06:44] Voice 6: map because we don't define families and we don't have any restrictions on size of buildings and we

[1:06:48] Voice 6: don't talk about what they should look like but let's let's be more proactive and let's actually

[1:06:53] Voice 6: address this and encourage people to think about sharing these sharing land uh

[1:06:57] Planner Chadwick: yeah yeah so you

[1:06:59] Planner Chadwick: have the shared arrangement so we can have a look in there and make sure that you've got the supportive

[1:07:03] Planner Chadwick: um arrangements like one of the things i i wonder about is do you want to get rid of the covered

[1:07:09] Planner Chadwick: walkway requirement like like to support sleeping houses you know where you have uh sleeping houses

[1:07:16] Planner Chadwick: connected to a um essentially to a a building but the the covered walkway is just a i don't even

[1:07:23] Planner Chadwick: know where that came from i don't either

[1:07:25] Planner Chadwick: it's

[1:07:26] Voice 6: a long time ago yeah

[1:07:28] Planner Chadwick: yeah yeah so so is there

[1:07:30] Planner Chadwick: interest in having a look at that

[1:07:31] Voice 6: absolutely yeah definitely okay

[1:07:34] Planner Chadwick: okay so written pod house

[1:07:36] Planner Chadwick: So we'll just make sure that we do the things to make that stuff possible.

[1:07:48] Planner Chadwick: Minimize environmental impact on land.

[1:07:51] Planner Chadwick: So, yeah, this is the implementation of the maximum combined floor area for dwellings,

[1:07:56] Planner Chadwick: which is, again, we've got the main island flex housing example.

[1:08:01] Planner Chadwick: And we can reference that to see, you know, the HAPC suggests some floor maximums and their relationship to this land size.

[1:08:17] Planner Chadwick: We can also look at main, you know, there's a bit of drilling down to identify some details related to this.

[1:08:25] Planner Chadwick: so i i guess in general though i just want to get your read on this approach and i i mean i think

[1:08:31] Planner Chadwick: i've heard that you're you're quite um supportive just

[1:08:37] Voice 6: catching my notes here i'd like to run

[1:08:41] Voice 6: something by my fellow trustees because up to now all we've done is increased um market rentals we

[1:08:50] Voice 6: haven't been able to do anything that puts a cap on what someone could charge for the rent of their

[1:08:57] Voice 6: accessory dwelling unit and and that does speak to current ocp policies which say we should have

[1:09:02] Voice 6: a range of housing options and we've never we've never actually addressed that we've never had

[1:09:06] Voice 6: rentals on them and this will create some some rentals good but they're not necessarily affordable

[1:09:12] Voice 6: so let's look at combining maximum combined floor area with density bonus zone hear me out

[1:09:21] Voice 6: An applicant could apply for the density bonus zone, which means they do want to share their land, but they want to share it with a number of dwellings.

[1:09:32] Voice 6: Let's put a cap on the combined floor area and let the owner, the applicant, decide how they want to configure that total, whatever it happens to be, 5,000 square feet or whatever.

[1:09:44] Voice 6: ever and let's let's look at limiting the the number of units that they could do based on the

[1:09:51] Voice 6: size of their lot so if you get a large residential lot maybe you could have up to six units uh and a

[1:09:56] Voice 6: small unit a small lot maybe only three so at least there's and and within that density bonus

[1:10:02] Voice 6: zone it's very prescriptive in that those dwelling units have to be affordable affordably rented so

[1:10:09] Voice 6: So that would all be baked into the zone.

[1:10:11] Voice 6: And this would give people, those who choose to share their land, an opportunity to share

[1:10:18] Voice 6: it, but also not for profit, obviously, not to make a bunch of money or pay down their

[1:10:22] Voice 6: mortgage, but to provide affordable housing units, either ownership or rental.

[1:10:28] Voice 6: And that would be up to the landowner.

[1:10:29] Voice 6: We're not going to worry about whether it's rented or if they're going to share like a

[1:10:32] Voice 6: crazy idea of the way I live where everybody owns everything.

[1:10:34] Voice 6: So this is just an idea that I've been trying to think how can we address this affordable housing with multi-unit, but limit, and maybe we need to limit the number of density bonus zones that we allow, maybe 10.

[1:10:48] Voice 6: Once we hit 10, we stop and we know we can handle 10, or maybe the density bonus zone doesn't require a housing agreement because the zone is so prescriptive that it will capture those limits.

[1:11:02] Voice 6: so there that's that's my idea so

[1:11:05] Planner Chadwick: it's it's a great idea it's just how like it's it's just

[1:11:11] Planner Chadwick: very difficult it it's not one that's very would be very easy to implement um and it's something

[1:11:18] Planner Chadwick: actually myself and justine stark have been talking about this sort of like we're you know

[1:11:24] Planner Chadwick: sort of racking our brains again around the idea of how how can you ensure that the units you know

[1:11:31] Planner Chadwick: know we can we can allow more housing to be built we can encourage smaller homes to be built

[1:11:37] Planner Chadwick: um but how do you make them affordable and that is the ultimate question and the challenge is that

[1:11:44] Planner Chadwick: um um um the challenge is that you would you'd have you the the um property owner

[1:11:56] Planner Chadwick: would have to there would have to be an agreement right so housing agreements would have to come

[1:12:01] Planner Chadwick: come into play in this respect and it's the administration of housing agreements is uh is

[1:12:08] Planner Chadwick: is is challenging because it's it takes a lot of time and um and there's not a lot of appetite um

[1:12:16] Planner Chadwick: from the regional district side of things or um or from the island's choice side right um the crd

[1:12:26] Planner Chadwick: So Justine is pushing the CRD to start to consider housing agreements with the hook being in that case, because the property owner also has to be interested in building a unit and then entering into a housing agreement.

[1:12:51] Planner Chadwick: So the CRD is looking at a program which would provide subsidies to the development of units, in which case that would be the hook for the housing agreement.

[1:13:01] Planner Chadwick: And then there's the administration of the housing agreement, which is the other layer.

[1:13:06] Planner Chadwick: The province has now got this subsidies for secondary units out there.

[1:13:13] Planner Chadwick: And, well, it's not a subsidy.

[1:13:16] Planner Chadwick: It's a forgivable loan.

[1:13:18] Planner Chadwick: loan and that's and it's a

[1:13:19] Planner Chadwick: forgivable that that arrangement is um um encouraging the rental at at

[1:13:26] Planner Chadwick: at under market value for five years um before your your loan is forgiven right so um that's

[1:13:34] Planner Chadwick: how they've thought it through so we've been trying to think it through and it's it's a it's

[1:13:38] Planner Chadwick: a difficult one it is a very difficult one uh to figure out um um and i don't i don't know that we

[1:13:47] Planner Chadwick: could figure it out very quickly like i think crd is the leader um but they haven't gotten there yet

[1:13:54] Planner Chadwick: so um i don't know like we you know we had some con i had some conversation with the comox valley

[1:14:01] Planner Chadwick: regional district uh staff they don't have um they don't have capacity at all to really start

[1:14:08] Planner Chadwick: turning their minds to to anything like this yet so what i foresee is that we would see hopefully

[1:14:15] Planner Chadwick: Hopefully the CRD will figure it out and then there'll be a prototype process that could, you know, that other regional districts could follow.

[1:14:27] Voice 6: I hear your concerns with regards to housing agreements.

[1:14:30] Voice 6: I understand that every time that the unit has changed hands, the agreement needs to be vetted and make sure that the new person is going to comply with the requirements of the housing agreement.

[1:14:43] Voice 6: But why can't a zone be so prescriptive that it's baked into the zone and then let bylaw enforcement be the watch?

[1:14:54] Voice 6: In other words, if somebody enters into a unit that's in this density bonus zone and they find that their rent is market rent, they make the complaint.

[1:15:05] Voice 6: VAL officer shows up, looks at the situation and penalizes the owner for not, like any other enforcement situation, you're not complying with what's allowable in your zone.

[1:15:19] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, I mean, again, I think enforcement would be very, very challenging with respect to that because it's not something physical that you can be looking at, right?

[1:15:29] Planner Chadwick: like i mean there's there's a lot of ways that people could sort of skirt around that

[1:15:33] Planner Chadwick: and also in terms of resourcing that kind of um a scenario i think um i think i could see

[1:15:40] Planner Chadwick: they're being pushed back on the site uh uh you know related to to that piece as well

[1:15:46] Voice 3: like i

[1:15:47] Planner Chadwick: say it's an excellent idea it's just i just don't know

[1:15:52] Planner Chadwick: i just don't know how to make

[1:15:54] Planner Chadwick: it happen for you and and honestly i've been i've been exploring it um i've been exploring it you

[1:16:01] Planner Chadwick: know all the different ways it's a topic of conversation um frequently okay

[1:16:07] Voice 6: so perhaps

[1:16:09] Voice 6: more research maybe there's somewhere in the world they've cracked this nut

[1:16:12] Voice 6: well

[1:16:13] Planner Chadwick: hopefully there's somewhere in bc you

[1:16:16] Voice 6: know

[1:16:17] Planner Chadwick: i mean if there's something in the world absolutely

[1:16:19] Planner Chadwick: Absolutely. But, um, you know, I think, um, planners are getting that, trying to get their

[1:16:24] Planner Chadwick: heads around this one. It, I mean, it's, it's, um, it's, it's, it's a frustrating scenario that

[1:16:31] Planner Chadwick: we exist in and I, I totally, um, I, I, I feel it too, right? Like it's, or I, you know, I can,

[1:16:39] Planner Chadwick: the creative creation of housing, but we want to, we want it to be affordable. How, how can we make

[1:16:44] Planner Chadwick: it be affordable? And there's, there's this whole, like, I don't, I don't believe that the,

[1:16:48] Planner Chadwick: the the supply demand um theory works in in desirable places right no

[1:16:55] Voice 1: are there are there

[1:16:57] Voice 1: any like external rubrics that we can uh like like i've been looking at uh and i've done this

[1:17:05] Voice 1: exercise a couple of times but um you know looking at the the the province's definition of affordable

[1:17:10] Voice 1: is that the housing costs uh less than 30 percent of the uh annual income of the family um

[1:17:25] Voice 1: and average well the median total income which is doesn't say a whole bunch uh on on denman is

[1:17:32] Voice 1: fifty nine thousand two hundred dollars per year

[1:17:35] Voice 4: um

[1:17:35] Voice 1: which is quite a bit lower than the cbrd cbrd

[1:17:39] Voice 1: 77 and a half um so you know there's there there is there are statistics out there i don't know

[1:17:49] Voice 1: um if there's a way to like is it possible to tie um to tie the that definition that the the

[1:18:01] Voice 1: in the ocp or whatever wherever this would be housed is there a possibility to make that

[1:18:07] Voice 1: calculation be tied to uh um to that number that can be externally you know checked or or

[1:18:15] Voice 1: identified it's

[1:18:18] Planner Chadwick: not not in the ocp unfortunately i mean in housing agreements yes okay

[1:18:23] Voice 5: um

[1:18:24] Planner Chadwick: but it's

[1:18:25] Planner Chadwick: not something that that it's not something that that you can put into an ocp because

[1:18:29] Planner Chadwick: again ocp's land use right it's all about the you know what you can put onto the land it doesn't

[1:18:34] Planner Chadwick: govern um it doesn't govern like you know who lives there or you know and it was just essentially

[1:18:42] Planner Chadwick: what we're talking about or i

[1:18:45] Voice 1: mean is that not use of the land though

[1:18:48] Planner Chadwick: well i know

[1:18:49] Voice 1: i know it's

[1:18:50] Voice 1: within a technical definition i know

[1:18:52] Planner Chadwick: yeah yeah yeah yeah totally yeah yeah i mean that's where

[1:18:57] Planner Chadwick: where we sort of we exist in this um like this world like our reality right now is that it just

[1:19:06] Planner Chadwick: feels like the only way to really get that affordable like really affordable housing is

[1:19:12] Planner Chadwick: is uh is purpose-built right like that's where you know supporting your uh your non-not-for-profit

[1:19:20] Planner Chadwick: housing providers you know um in all the ways possible you know that's that's why you know

[1:19:27] Planner Chadwick: letting them making it easy for people to donate land to them that's how this that's how the stuff

[1:19:32] Planner Chadwick: gets built or you get the community rallying like um on main island they've got an extremely

[1:19:40] Planner Chadwick: impressive um project um where they've built a well they it's essentially a a full-scale uh

[1:19:48] Planner Chadwick: renovation uh right david the teachery they've basically essentially taken a a falling down

[1:19:55] Planner Chadwick: own home that had been moved to the the island at some point and and completely renovated it

[1:20:01] Planner Chadwick: as a community um and uh i i had i had the great fortune to have a look at it last week

[1:20:08] Planner Chadwick: um and that's an extra impressive project but there's an example of housing being built like

[1:20:14] Planner Chadwick: it's just like you know the hornby island seniors uh housing right i mean it's yeah it's the

[1:20:23] Planner Chadwick: And that's what we need to really support, because it seems to be that that's the way that the affordable housing is being built on these islands, because, you know, we're not getting the support that we need, right?

[1:20:40] Planner Chadwick: We just talked about BC Housing Challenge.

[1:20:42] Planner Chadwick: Yeah. We

[1:20:44] Planner Chadwick: can

[1:20:45] Voice 6: also advocate to the CVRD to try and develop a housing authority that would be able

[1:20:51] Voice 6: to administer housing agreements. So that's part of the advocacy plan, which is

[1:20:55] Voice 6: part of the recommendations. And that's, you know, that's, we're just going to keep pushing until we get along.

[1:21:00] Planner Chadwick: keep having the conversation well start the conversation right we've started it a little bit

[1:21:03] Planner Chadwick: but but uh but yeah you know i mean i've in there suggested you know regular meetings and

[1:21:09] Planner Chadwick: yeah you

[1:21:10] Planner Chadwick: know that's the kind of thing that needs to happen yeah okay

[1:21:14] Voice 6: yeah i do i do love the idea

[1:21:16] Voice 6: of uh the maximum combined floor area i'm just not quite sure how we would uh where it would fit

[1:21:24] Voice 6: so i don't know where do we put it do we look at do we look at the large residential lots and not

[1:21:32] Voice 6: Not only can they have a suite and an accessory dwelling unit, but they can also take the combined maximum floor area and distribute it as they want.

[1:21:41] Voice 6: Are we looking at that?

[1:21:42] Voice 6: I'd be happy with that, too.

[1:21:43] Voice 6: We have a number of large residential lots that aren't in the ALR that have the flexibility to look at something like this.

[1:21:51] Voice 6: So I would like to see that in our OCP.

[1:21:56] Voice 5: I

[1:21:56] Voice 1: know one of the things that will come up as part of this conversation, and I think I'm...

[1:22:04] Voice 1: I feel pretty strongly that we want to make sure that we are considering that lot coverage component and where there's impermeable structures.

[1:22:18] Voice 1: So if there's a driveway obviously has a different drainage pattern than woodland and lots of accessory structures that may not be governed as part of the housing element.

[1:22:32] Voice 1: It's like, well, the more you cover up that land, we do want to make sure that we're being conscious of, you know, water in those recommendations.

[1:22:40] Voice 1: And that's a more of an nuanced detail that should come later.

[1:22:45] Voice 1: But I want to make sure that that's part of the conversation, too.

[1:22:48] Voice 6: Okay.

[1:22:49] Voice 6: I also believe there's room for lot coverage reduction on those parcels that take advantage of that maximum combined floor area.

[1:22:56] Voice 6: so there's a there's

[1:22:57] Voice 1: a bit of a

[1:22:57] Voice 6: plus for the natural environment because there's a bit of

[1:23:02] Voice 6: a hit because we're adding more people so

[1:23:04] Voice 1: let's i think that would be really good yeah yeah that's

[1:23:06] Voice 1: that's exactly the kind of thinking i'd like to capture around that yeah

[1:23:11] Planner Chadwick: okay i've made know that

[1:23:13] Planner Chadwick: and i think further on i i do mention something about lot coverage as well okay um

[1:23:19] Planner Chadwick: okay so

[1:23:23] Planner Chadwick: So, yeah, so number 17 is kind of connected to number 16, and that's just considering that if you did apply maximum floor areas, that there still would be flexibility for those homes that may be larger to still have one additional dwelling unit.

[1:23:46] Voice 6: I didn't really catch the drift on number 17.

[1:23:49] Voice 6: yeah

[1:23:49] Planner Chadwick: so if you're say your maximum floor area combined floor area is um three thousand yeah

[1:23:56] Voice 6: um

[1:23:57] Planner Chadwick: then if you're already at three thousand you could still be allowed to have one small unit

[1:24:04] Planner Chadwick: oh

[1:24:05] Voice 6: i see yeah

[1:24:07] Planner Chadwick: okay so that sort of details around that particular concept

[1:24:13] Planner Chadwick: so you know with your general support we can build that out a little bit and um come back

[1:24:19] Planner Chadwick: with some options yeah

[1:24:20] Voice 6: we at the present we don't we don't have a maximum for primary dwellings

[1:24:24] Voice 6: yeah and it's been talked about for decades and decades and decades so we might we might want to

[1:24:28] Voice 6: jump into that um pit of doom and uh be brave enough to put a number on there and we will end

[1:24:35] Voice 6: up putting some dwellings in a legal non-conforming status and that's just life yeah yeah i mean i

[1:24:41] Voice 1: think that's sort of what i would want to push towards frankly um and and i'd love to hear

[1:24:47] Voice 1: or Nerissa, if you have any, you know, examples or suggestions of what we think that size ought

[1:24:55] Voice 1: to be. And maybe, like, we know with, you know, reasonable accuracy, I think, what sorts of

[1:25:05] Voice 1: sizes are pre-existing on Denman through past citing and use permits. There may be a way to

[1:25:13] Voice 1: sort of capture what already exists and you know base

[1:25:19] Voice 1: our base our uh what what seems to be being

[1:25:23] Voice 1: what seems to be being created what seems to be needed quote unquote uh and then base our

[1:25:30] Voice 1: our calculation on that but i think i think a max floor is uh should be an underpinning

[1:25:38] Voice 1: component of any of these changes yep

[1:25:42] Planner Chadwick: okay so yeah i've uh i've written that captured that um

[1:25:47] Planner Chadwick: and in terms of examples up north pender and um saturn have considered maximums and i think

[1:25:56] Planner Chadwick: north pender did i think they both have them now um um so there's some background uh research that's

[1:26:03] Planner Chadwick: been done that we can

[1:26:04] Voice 1: do you know

[1:26:06] Voice 1: do you know off off top of your head what that what that number is

[1:26:09] Voice 1: that's fine

[1:26:10] Voice 1: that's i think

[1:26:12] Planner Chadwick: i think it ended up being fairly generous in the end yeah

[1:26:16] Trustee Maude: yeah i think south pender went very very narrow north pender i think went to 3500 square feet

[1:26:25] Trustee Maude: um and i don't i don't think it's on saturn unless it's off

[1:26:29] Planner Chadwick: maybe i meant maybe it was

[1:26:30] Planner Chadwick: south pender i was thinking about then yeah

[1:26:33] Trustee Maude: so i thought

[1:26:34] Trustee Maude: last term and it's all being

[1:26:36] Trustee Maude: reconsidered oh

[1:26:37] Planner Chadwick: yeah and salt spring as well that's right yeah yeah i

[1:26:40] Trustee Maude: actually yeah i did

[1:26:42] Planner Chadwick: start putting a chart together so i do have that information together cool yeah

[1:26:46] Planner Chadwick: at some point at

[1:26:47] Voice 1: some point it'd be great to to see that and that would give us i think uh some ideas and and i

[1:26:53] Voice 1: think we'll we'll need to define it in our own right anyways but it

[1:26:57] Planner Chadwick: would be nice

[1:26:57] Voice 1: to get some

[1:26:58] Voice 1: ideas of where to start yep

[1:27:00] Planner Chadwick: yeah um okay so the next one here is the system requirements for new

[1:27:06] Planner Chadwick: builds and additional yeah

[1:27:09] Voice 1: i think that's a slam

[1:27:10] Voice 1: dunk isn't it okay yeah

[1:27:12] Voice 1: absolutely and so north

[1:27:13] Planner Chadwick: pender's just done this they've just uh with their lub review they um they introduced uh cisterns for

[1:27:22] Planner Chadwick: new builds and um we've done a little bit of analysis around uh system requirement sizes and

[1:27:28] Planner Chadwick: such um they're sort of different they're they exist in different ways in different on different

[1:27:35] Planner Chadwick: different LTCs. So we have a bit of that analysis that we can refer to.

[1:27:40] Voice 6: Especially for ADUs on the small R1 lots, we are absolutely going to have to make sure that

[1:27:47] Voice 6: cisterns are the primary source of potable water. There are a number of areas which are in crisis

[1:27:53] Voice 6: all summer long as far as water. And to even contemplate adding more dwellings to that

[1:27:57] Voice 6: area is insane unless they are absolutely water neutral as far as the existing aquifer.

[1:28:04] Planner Chadwick: yeah

[1:28:05] Voice 6: um

[1:28:08] Planner Chadwick: so these next couple of recommendations are are sort of related to like almost that um

[1:28:16] Planner Chadwick: advocacy education um

[1:28:18] Voice 3: education yeah and

[1:28:21] Planner Chadwick: and um it's these are things that that were brought up

[1:28:24] Planner Chadwick: the same exact same um recommendations were brought up from the gabriola hapc

[1:28:30] Voice 5: and

[1:28:31] Planner Chadwick: so this is where uh you know this these are things you definitely add to the um housing action

[1:28:38] Planner Chadwick: plan and it may be something that that we take up um it would be taken up at a trust-wide level

[1:28:43] Planner Chadwick: like to just do some information um put together information materials um so um and you know

[1:28:53] Planner Chadwick: These are things, I think, too, that we do have the Islands Trust Housing Strategic Plan, Strategic Implementation Plan, or whatever we're calling it, the Islands Trust Housing Strategic Action Plan.

[1:29:11] Planner Chadwick: So this is where you can advocate. This is a living document, right? So these are the kinds of things that can be captured on that. It's essentially work. It's turned into a bit of a work plan for staff now.

[1:29:22] Planner Chadwick: um so these are things that we can uh you know you can advocate advocate for those to be added

[1:29:26] Planner Chadwick: to there and then it becomes part of um part of the uh the work plan for for staff are there are

[1:29:35] Voice 1: there um like more concrete ways that we can can do that encouragement beyond just education

[1:29:44] Planner Chadwick: um what

[1:29:46] Planner Chadwick: are you thinking well

[1:29:49] Voice 1: they i mean and again like my uh my my understanding

[1:29:54] Voice 1: of this stuff is still developing but like um if if someone was to

[1:30:00] Voice 1: apply for a siting and use permit and was going to use natural building materials

[1:30:08] Voice 1: for their build, would there be a way to offset some of the cost of that? And I know that that's

[1:30:13] Voice 1: a relatively small cost, all things said and done. But in some of these cases, anything,

[1:30:19] Voice 1: any little helps. And that would sort of, to me, demonstrate our

[1:30:27] Voice 1: explicit encouragement of that kind of process or those undertakings as opposed to conventional

[1:30:33] Voice 1: methods.

[1:30:34] Planner Chadwick: Right. Yeah. Well, again, this is one of those, that would be a great idea.

[1:30:38] Planner Chadwick: It's a great idea sort of thing, but very difficult to administer, you know, because

[1:30:44] Planner Chadwick: there's no way of knowing absolutely that somebody is going to use a particular type

[1:30:48] Planner Chadwick: of building material, something that would be very difficult to monitor.

[1:30:52] Voice 1: i mean yeah i mean sure yes we

[1:30:56] Voice 6: don't have building inspection salmon yeah i know i know

[1:30:59] Planner Chadwick: yeah particularly you

[1:31:01] Voice 6: don't want it yeah

[1:31:02] Voice 1: exactly no no i know and i i

[1:31:04] Voice 1: like i hear that too i

[1:31:05] Voice 1: absolutely keep

[1:31:06] Planner Chadwick: thinking you know keep thinking about it because maybe there'll be a creative

[1:31:09] Planner Chadwick: idea that'll come yeah i

[1:31:11] Voice 1: would like to find ways to make that like really like explicitly you know

[1:31:17] Voice 1: support those those methodologies because i think they well

[1:31:20] Planner Chadwick: i mean you can have ocp policies that

[1:31:23] Planner Chadwick: encourage it you know i mean it's sort of like an advocacy kind of policy sure

[1:31:28] Voice 1: yeah um

[1:31:30] Planner Chadwick: but yeah very

[1:31:30] Planner Chadwick: difficult to to enforce um any sort of compliance on on that kind of thing only allowed a certain

[1:31:40] Planner Chadwick: type of material on the island um uh yeah so this is this uh encourage and promote conservation

[1:31:52] Planner Chadwick: focused innovation in new affordable so this is you know this is a similar sort of thing like

[1:32:00] Planner Chadwick: this

[1:32:00] Voice 6: is like nap tip

[1:32:01] Planner Chadwick: yeah advantage

[1:32:04] Voice 6: you've got the advantage of having more dwellings it's a

[1:32:07] Voice 6: great idea that's right yeah

[1:32:08] Voice 6: conservation land yeah I mean it's an interesting idea mm-hmm yeah

[1:32:12] Planner Chadwick: and I mean in a way it's kind of it kind of has been done on on Denman a different context there

[1:32:20] Planner Chadwick: was uh like you know the covenant for a big chunk of land uh donated for for uh density so yeah it's

[1:32:29] Planner Chadwick: that's so it's really um i think it's fairly straightforward it sounds like i see two

[1:32:37] Planner Chadwick: two nodding heads there yeah

[1:32:38] Voice 5: the

[1:32:41] Planner Chadwick: staff identified options i've got to change that

[1:32:46] Planner Chadwick: um so update potable water requirements for subdivision i mean this is just a we've got

[1:32:55] Planner Chadwick: We've basically got these model bylaw now for North Pender.

[1:33:03] Planner Chadwick: That's an update to the potable requirements for subdivision.

[1:33:07] Planner Chadwick: So they're more stringent and specific than what Denman currently has.

[1:33:17] Planner Chadwick: So it's just putting a better bylaw in there that it's a bit more clearer

[1:33:22] Planner Chadwick: and more stringent in terms of process for subdivision.

[1:33:29] Planner Chadwick: So if you're already looking at limiting subdivision,

[1:33:32] Planner Chadwick: this would, if there are any subdivisions

[1:33:39] Planner Chadwick: that would still be moving forward,

[1:33:42] Planner Chadwick: this would just make it more rigorous.

[1:33:46] Voice 6: Well, let's look at them anyway.

[1:33:48] Planner Chadwick: We can have a look at it.

[1:33:49] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, okay.

[1:33:49] Voice 6: Yeah.

[1:33:50] Planner Chadwick: Doesn't hurt to look at it.

[1:33:51] Voice 6: Doesn't

[1:33:52] Voice 3: hurt to look.

[1:33:52] Voice 3: yeah

[1:33:56] Planner Chadwick: so this is where established floor cover coverage maximum so that's your idea that

[1:34:01] Planner Chadwick: you guys were discussing earlier and i heard yes let's have a look at it

[1:34:06] Voice 6: yeah well we have some rather large lot coverage uh amounts in our zones up to 25 percent i mean

[1:34:13] Voice 6: yeah you know 25 of 10 acres is a lot gigantic so i think we could look at reducing those which

[1:34:21] Voice 6: which increases the amount of land that is somewhat, it's not protected per se,

[1:34:26] Voice 6: but it's certainly not encumbered by a non-impervious surface like a roof or concrete slab.

[1:34:32] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, so you also want to, yeah, I'll make a note there too,

[1:34:35] Planner Chadwick: because you also want to just look generally at impervious surfaces.

[1:34:39] Voice 6: Yeah.

[1:34:42] Planner Chadwick: So not just structures.

[1:34:48] Voice 5: Right.

[1:34:50] Planner Chadwick: uh yeah and this is just one we've we've we've put in there because it's sort of related

[1:34:53] Planner Chadwick: to housing kind of um

[1:34:57] Voice 6: swimming pools my goodness yeah sure i don't know of any on demo i'm sure

[1:35:03] Planner Chadwick: there's

[1:35:03] Voice 6: one or two yeah

[1:35:04] Planner Chadwick: i mean you can just prohibit them yeah i

[1:35:09] Voice 1: think there might i think

[1:35:11] Voice 1: there might be one um you know

[1:35:17] Voice 1: one two two i think i think i know of two um

[1:35:22] Planner Chadwick: there's a really lovely

[1:35:23] Planner Chadwick: example of a rain a rainwater fed one which is essentially a emergency cistern

[1:35:34] Planner Chadwick: that is also a swimming pool south

[1:35:36] Voice 3: pender

[1:35:37] Planner Chadwick: yeah

[1:35:38] Voice 3: so

[1:35:39] Planner Chadwick: that kind of an example is

[1:35:40] Planner Chadwick: really what we want to encourage people if you want a swimming pool you got to

[1:35:44] Planner Chadwick: get creative so yeah so

[1:35:52] Planner Chadwick: here's this is this is coming back to our conversation

[1:35:54] Planner Chadwick: that we just had this density bonus it's a it's it's a great idea it's just very difficult to

[1:36:01] Planner Chadwick: to realize and it's something that we are thinking about so okay so i think let's focus on the the

[1:36:14] Planner Chadwick: land use piece for now as in what can go where yeah and then the how we do this we we you know

[1:36:22] Planner Chadwick: know, we, we are like, yeah, trust me, we're, we've really got our heads on this one. Thank you.

[1:36:34] Planner Chadwick: So other changes related to the OCPA and land use bylaw. Yeah, so I mean, basically,

[1:36:43] Planner Chadwick: all

[1:36:43] Voice 3: the old stuff, all the technical

[1:36:45] Planner Chadwick: stuff is going to be updated.

[1:36:47] Voice 3: Yeah, because we're doing,

[1:36:48] Planner Chadwick: you know, enough changes that, you know, we'll catch those ones. There was a suggestion related

[1:36:56] Planner Chadwick: to referring to downtown denman to as the village yeah i like

[1:37:02] Voice 3: this the village

[1:37:03] Planner Chadwick: because

[1:37:04] Voice 3: everybody

[1:37:05] Planner Chadwick: calls it downtown denman so that's easy that's pretty straightforward unless

[1:37:08] Planner Chadwick: you know of any like major challenges that you might have in doing that but other than that

[1:37:14] Planner Chadwick: seems

[1:37:14] Voice 6: there is a reference on denman to the um to the village that existed here uh before we

[1:37:21] Voice 6: arrived and and that's that's that's the appropriate place for that that right yes

[1:37:26] Voice 6: it's confusing to

[1:37:28] Planner Chadwick: have the downtown

[1:37:29] Voice 6: area referred to as a village so i i think totally

[1:37:32] Planner Chadwick: so we can do

[1:37:33] Planner Chadwick: that um yeah and then there were just some sort of advocacy policy related things in there that

[1:37:38] Planner Chadwick: the ajpc that seemed fairly you know fairly benign and straightforward yeah um yeah update policies

[1:37:47] Planner Chadwick: that are outdated, absolutely. We'll do that. Revisit site-specific exemptions. So there are

[1:37:55] Planner Chadwick: some site-specific exemptions to things that we'll have to have a look at

[1:38:00] Voice 3: in

[1:38:01] Planner Chadwick: light of other changes

[1:38:03] Planner Chadwick: because they may no longer apply. Review definitions. And I think I identified some

[1:38:08] Planner Chadwick: of them through the report. And what we're trying to do is just create some consistency

[1:38:14] Planner Chadwick: consistency across the trust area what an idea yeah yes it's uh yeah we'll get there we'll get

[1:38:23] Planner Chadwick: there um one by one

[1:38:25] Planner Chadwick: yeah well that's it like i mean denman and uh gabriel are going to be sort

[1:38:30] Planner Chadwick: of out there um as uh and main are going to be out there uh uh sort of uh as the as the leaders in

[1:38:37] Planner Chadwick: in um creating some of these uh or supporting some of these newer newer definitions which

[1:38:43] Planner Chadwick: aren't actually new like i mean take the provincial deck can we just take the provincial definitions

[1:38:47] Planner Chadwick: for a lot of

[1:38:48] Planner Chadwick: things um um and then uh revising the ocp and land use bylaw the readability like so

[1:38:58] Planner Chadwick: they're the way that the zone zone i mean if you love the way that if you absolutely love

[1:39:03] Planner Chadwick: the layout of your land use bylaw we don't have to touch it but um but uh i don't know that it is

[1:39:12] Voice 6: I think it's eminently practical.

[1:39:14] Voice 6: It's a spreadsheet, and I haven't heard anybody say, I can't figure this out.

[1:39:18] Voice 6: So I think most of us are comfortable with spreadsheet format, and that's how it's laid out.

[1:39:24] Voice 6: Sure,

[1:39:24] Planner Chadwick: if you want to stick with what you've got, we can stick with what you've got, or I can show you some other examples.

[1:39:30] Voice 6: I would leave it.

[1:39:31] Voice 6: I mean, that was designed by people that are still around.

[1:39:34] Voice 6: I want to respect the work that they put into that, unless there's a really, really way better way.

[1:39:41] Planner Chadwick: Right. And I mean, here, I'm just, there's also the consistency idea, but if Denman wants to be Denman, that's also fine.

[1:39:49] Voice 6: And weird.

[1:39:50] Planner Chadwick: And weird. And we can get there too. Like if there's a challenge with something that you're changing, we can revisit it.

[1:39:57] Voice 6: Absolutely.

[1:39:57] Voice 6: um

[1:39:59] Planner Chadwick: so the you know a lot of these bylaw enforcement related things are are not um

[1:40:05] Planner Chadwick: they're a bit out of scope of the of the the basic task the you know the focus task at hand

[1:40:11] Planner Chadwick: which is to to update the bylaws and a lot of this will be um reviewed uh in through the um

[1:40:19] Planner Chadwick: the bylaw the rule of bylaw um enforcement policies and so that's recently i was in the

[1:40:25] Planner Chadwick: a regional planning committee meeting last week and so they identified as that as that as one of

[1:40:31] Planner Chadwick: the top three um um on

[1:40:35] Voice 6: the work priorities

[1:40:35] Planner Chadwick: yeah and so that's going forward to trust council to

[1:40:41] Planner Chadwick: support so um a

[1:40:44] Voice 6: lot of this are not just on them and that's why this is a much bigger issue so i

[1:40:49] Voice 6: think we're going to take advantage i think i would like to take advantage of the fact that

[1:40:52] Voice 6: If this is a regional planning committee item, they can fund it, they can do the work, and then we can look at adopting those on them.

[1:40:59] Voice 6: And I think that's the way to go rather than trying to parallel and take this on ourselves.

[1:41:04] Voice 6: We've got enough work to do with the housing agreements.

[1:41:06] Voice 6: And not to say that those changes to the file enforcement are important.

[1:41:10] Voice 6: They're very important, but they're already being looked at by a higher level with more money and more time.

[1:41:15] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, exactly.

[1:41:16] Planner Chadwick: Yeah.

[1:41:18] Planner Chadwick: Education and engagement.

[1:41:19] Planner Chadwick: so they're like again we talked about this a little bit earlier there's maybe

[1:41:23] Planner Chadwick: an opportunity for like a broader trust level like a project related to

[1:41:31] Planner Chadwick: communications on some of the things that you know maybe there's opportunity

[1:41:37] Planner Chadwick: in our conversations with the CVRD you know if they want to help to support

[1:41:42] Planner Chadwick: some of this education, these education pieces, you know, and, you know, like, there's things

[1:41:50] Planner Chadwick: that we're thinking about as we move along at a trust wide level to like, this education around

[1:41:57] Planner Chadwick: incentives and subsidies, like, you know, we've created a housing page, we're starting to

[1:42:02] Planner Chadwick: populate that change it. So there may be opportunity for us to use that. So everything's

[1:42:06] Planner Chadwick: moving together which is which is great um yeah so all of these things are sort of part of that

[1:42:13] Planner Chadwick: education piece um the advocacy piece again um i've indicated here like some of these things

[1:42:19] Planner Chadwick: are already with it like in in uh the the uh islands trust housing strategic action plan

[1:42:26] Planner Chadwick: and on the on the work program for the regional planning team we've got you know um resourcing

[1:42:32] Planner Chadwick: shifts a little bit um because we're you know we're trying to figure out how we can do everything

[1:42:39] Planner Chadwick: um but uh you know housing is a priority so we do have actually another planner um anthony from

[1:42:45] Planner Chadwick: salt spring we're taking a couple of his days um in the next six months or so to to help with some

[1:42:52] Planner Chadwick: of the work around um um providing um some better information to help to support non-profits

[1:43:00] Planner Chadwick: it's basically a toolkit like we've got some you know we've got the silence trust uh housing

[1:43:05] Planner Chadwick: options toolkit there's a part two is about the multi-family piece so

[1:43:09] Voice 3: providing tools for

[1:43:11] Planner Chadwick: for uh non-profits to so so their process is easier so that's what we've got anthony

[1:43:17] Planner Chadwick: working on so all that to say we're we're on we're on some of you know we're on we're looking

[1:43:22] Planner Chadwick: we're working on some of this stuff

[1:43:23] Voice 3: um

[1:43:25] Planner Chadwick: um you know there's some further discussions to have

[1:43:29] Planner Chadwick: with the CVRD um related to housing agreements related to services um related to municipal um

[1:43:37] Planner Chadwick: MRDT collection great ideas uh yeah

[1:43:42] Planner Chadwick: a number of them are on are on our are already on our

[1:43:45] Planner Chadwick: list of strategic actions um yeah provincial there's some provincial pieces here again um just

[1:43:56] Planner Chadwick: We put these into the action plan.

[1:43:58] Planner Chadwick: If it's in your action plan, if it's in Maine's action plan, it's in Gabriela's action plan, we get it onto this list, it becomes a priority to do.

[1:44:07] Planner Chadwick: And some of this stuff we're already working on, like the composting toilets piece.

[1:44:13] Planner Chadwick: We had Mary Storzer, who was here with us.

[1:44:17] Planner Chadwick: This is actually her last week, unfortunately, but she's doing some policy work for us.

[1:44:21] Planner Chadwick: And so she's really dug into the composting toilet piece and some of the challenges related to that.

[1:44:27] Planner Chadwick: in some in in in in in a lot in critic the critical piece there is it there's um there's

[1:44:34] Planner Chadwick: some guidance and there's some um in different interpretations of the guidance and so um the

[1:44:41] Planner Chadwick: advocacy there has been to to advocate for the province to provide some like a clearer sense of

[1:44:48] Planner Chadwick: um of what that interpretation is so it gets it gets tricky but we've sort of nailed the problem

[1:44:55] Planner Chadwick: which is great with respect to that.

[1:44:58] Voice 6: One of the

[1:44:59] Voice 6: things we learned at the open house,

[1:45:01] Voice 6: and because we had the professional who had designed the gray water

[1:45:09] Voice 6: and the composting toilet for the Coho development,

[1:45:14] Voice 6: he explained that they are legal, but if they're not specific to the zoning,

[1:45:20] Voice 6: you wouldn't be able to use them.

[1:45:22] Voice 6: In other words, if the zoning doesn't specify that a gray water and a composting toilet is acceptable, then you have

[1:45:29] Voice 1: to go to

[1:45:29] Voice 6: a higher level.

[1:45:30] Voice 6: So that's really important that when we design these zones, we make sure that we're not hamstringing ourselves to exclude those rather creative systems.

[1:45:43] Voice 6: Yeah,

[1:45:43] Planner Chadwick: and actually that'll be a really good report to have a look at.

[1:45:47] Voice 6: Yeah.

[1:45:47] Voice 6: So

[1:45:48] Planner Chadwick: that we can make sure that we have the support.

[1:45:52] Planner Chadwick: so i'm just going to open up the report here so that we can go back to the front

[1:45:59] Voice 6: page there yep

[1:46:00] Voice 6: there we go

[1:46:01] Planner Chadwick: yeah so just coming back to what our decision points are i guess i got a couple

[1:46:09] Planner Chadwick: of questions for you one is do you feel like you need want uh further um community engagement and

[1:46:20] Planner Chadwick: And and on what? There's a couple there were a couple of things that came up in here where you said we should we should have some conversation about that.

[1:46:29] Planner Chadwick: So what I want to know is whether you want sort of just some targeted engagement on some specific things or whether you want, you know, a broader engagement and what that looks like to you.

[1:46:46] Voice 6: um if i may i would like to consult once we have draft bylaws in first reading so let's let's let

[1:46:53] Voice 6: the community look at what we're specifically looking at because the the pre the amount of

[1:46:58] Voice 6: consultation that's happened on this island with this topic is is enough to get us to that stage

[1:47:03] Voice 6: i believe and i don't think i'm i'm speaking out of turn no

[1:47:06] Voice 1: i absolutely agree that's where i was

[1:47:08] Voice 1: going to go completely i think until we our our job right now is to start doing the work which

[1:47:13] Voice 1: Which also to my mind, it's like, if we're even, even like right now, if we decided right

[1:47:19] Voice 1: now that we need to hold a community information meeting as soon as possible, we're looking

[1:47:23] Voice 1: at least three weeks and that's realistically not going to happen because that's trust

[1:47:28] Voice 1: council.

[1:47:28] Voice 1: So we're looking at least a month and then, and then we're starting the process of, as

[1:47:33] Voice 1: you said earlier, Nerissa, like even for a slam dunk change, it's three months minimum,

[1:47:39] Voice 4: like

[1:47:40] Voice 1: minimum, minimum, minimum, like that's crazy fast.

[1:47:42] Voice 4: that means everything's going really well and

[1:47:44] Voice 1: yeah that's like there's a total no-brainer um

[1:47:48] Voice 1: so like i to to to push that off even even that other month before we start like let's let's do

[1:47:54] Voice 1: some work i think i think the community really wants to see that we have something in hand that

[1:47:59] Voice 1: they can get their teeth into they don't want to have another round of hey so what are your

[1:48:04] Voice 1: feelings because they we had a really good and actually this this open house that we had last

[1:48:09] Voice 1: month was was that in many many ways um

[1:48:12] Voice 1: and it was very well attended um uh daniel arbore the

[1:48:17] Voice 1: regional director was there we had 60 maybe 70 people um and like there's there's people but

[1:48:25] Voice 1: they're they want to see stuff they want to see what's they want to see action they don't

[1:48:30] Voice 1: necessarily want to like sit around asking more questions all

[1:48:34] Planner Chadwick: right sounds good okay so um so

[1:48:40] Planner Chadwick: i would also so so then i would need direction to to draft bylaws i think and i i'll explain

[1:48:46] Planner Chadwick: what my process would be i would also ask for direction to draft the um the um housing

[1:48:55] Planner Chadwick: uh strategic action plan which is basically this list um the list of the things you said yes to

[1:49:02] Planner Chadwick: um on a page so um actually had it i had i had drafted something like that previously so i

[1:49:10] Planner Chadwick: actually have something that i can show you and what it does is it it really just it's really

[1:49:15] Planner Chadwick: just a list of the things that you're um wanting to move forward with so it provides it will provide

[1:49:21] Planner Chadwick: uh you know and the things that you want to have advocacy on so it's a it's like i said it's a

[1:49:26] Planner Chadwick: one-page summary of this is what i'm calling the action plan so it's not it's not a whole lot of

[1:49:32] Planner Chadwick: work but i need you to i need your direction to draft that so that it's not coming to the

[1:49:36] Planner Chadwick: community just out of nowhere um um so my process would be to come back to you with a list the

[1:49:45] Planner Chadwick: basically the action plan which would be the list of the things that you said uh yeah let's go for

[1:49:52] Planner Chadwick: it on um and then i can begin to identify the things that'll need um a little bit more analysis

[1:50:03] Planner Chadwick: and and then and then start writing start drafting bylaws like it like when I

[1:50:13] Planner Chadwick: go through this and I'll I need to make sure that I know like I feel like I've

[1:50:17] Planner Chadwick: gotten like good feedback from you I think there are a few things that we may

[1:50:21] Planner Chadwick: need to discuss in a little bit more detail but I may be able to draft the

[1:50:25] Planner Chadwick: shell of the bylaw so you'll get another staff report before you get the the

[1:50:33] Planner Chadwick: bylaws which will be like here you know here's the areas we have to have a little bit more

[1:50:36] Planner Chadwick: conversation with do you want do you want to and the other thing that we haven't had a like i feel

[1:50:41] Planner Chadwick: like you're feeling like what the sense i'm getting from you is like yeah these all sound

[1:50:46] Planner Chadwick: pretty good let's go for it there's nothing i think there was one thing i can't remember it's

[1:50:52] Planner Chadwick: in here somewhere i made note of it there was only one where you were like yeah i think we'd

[1:50:56] Planner Chadwick: have more conversation with the community about that oh that was the subdivision down down zoning

[1:51:03] Voice 1: yeah yeah and i there's a part of me that sort of feels like that's that's a conversation that

[1:51:08] Voice 1: could be had off the back of having some you know provisional bylaws or you know some the drafts

[1:51:15] Voice 1: starting to come together i think that could be i don't know i don't want to i don't want to make

[1:51:20] Voice 1: a whole bunch more work for you um obviously narissa but um like that does feel like that's

[1:51:26] Voice 1: a conversation that could come later in the process potentially okay like

[1:51:30] Voice 1: i don't think

[1:51:30] Voice 1: I think it stops us

[1:51:31] Planner Chadwick: from moving forward on the other stuff.

[1:51:32] Planner Chadwick: That's my point, I think.

[1:51:33] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, I hear you.

[1:51:34] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, for sure.

[1:51:35] Planner Chadwick: So what we could do.

[1:51:36] Voice 6: And I

[1:51:36] Voice 6: agree with Sam on that.

[1:51:37] Voice 6: I mean, I agree with Sam on that.

[1:51:40] Voice 6: Restricting subdivision to affordable housing is a great idea.

[1:51:44] Voice 6: And so let's put that in a draft form and take the comments if they come at that point.

[1:51:52] Voice 6: Yeah.

[1:51:53] Voice 5: Okay.

[1:51:54] Voice 6: Because I don't want to go.

[1:51:55] Voice 6: I'm not interested in going out to the community in some fashion to try and test that idea.

[1:52:00] Voice 6: it let's test it as a draft bylaw yeah

[1:52:02] Voice 1: yeah they're they're ready

[1:52:03] Voice 1: they're ready for that

[1:52:04] Voice 1: they're ready to

[1:52:05] Voice 1: go yeah they really are

[1:52:05] Planner Chadwick: yeah okay yeah so so i'd suggest you pass motions to

[1:52:11] Planner Chadwick: um uh for requesting staff come back with uh um uh draft action plan and requesting staff to

[1:52:19] Planner Chadwick: begin drafting bylaws those would be the year two things so um just in terms of time and my

[1:52:26] Planner Chadwick: abilities to do the work um you know come back like i said before i'll come back with um come

[1:52:32] Planner Chadwick: back with the action plan uh i can probably do that when when is your march meeting i think

[1:52:39] Planner Chadwick: probably not

[1:52:40] Voice 6: much ninth or something yeah

[1:52:43] Planner Chadwick: it might be too early i mean i may be able to come back

[1:52:45] Planner Chadwick: with something when's

[1:52:47] Voice 1: our well our next our next meeting's not for a little while april i don't

[1:52:53] Voice 1: know

[1:52:53] Planner Chadwick: oh april okay yeah yeah

[1:52:55] Voice 1: we don't have a we just had a meeting so we don't have another

[1:52:57] Voice 1: the meeting until after trust council yeah

[1:52:59] Planner Chadwick: okay yeah so well i'll tell you i also am um shepherding

[1:53:05] Planner Chadwick: the gabriela visioning process and it's coming to a bit of a conclusion at the end of march so

[1:53:10] Planner Chadwick: we've got a lot of data to get together and all that sort of thing so i'm just i just don't want

[1:53:15] Planner Chadwick: to i just don't want to give you false promises about um what

[1:53:19] Voice 5: i can deliver

[1:53:19] Planner Chadwick: on um i uh but i

[1:53:22] Planner Chadwick: i totally want to help you to move this um as as fast as we we can given you know the other things

[1:53:29] Planner Chadwick: and um given

[1:53:30] Voice 1: the fact that you're a human things

[1:53:32] Planner Chadwick: happening on uh you know we got uh got a lub i'm

[1:53:37] Planner Chadwick: bringing draft bylaws back to chair mod on um on main so

[1:53:44] Voice 3: anyways

[1:53:49] Planner Chadwick: just balancing the things

[1:53:50] Planner Chadwick: so i'll do

[1:53:51] Planner Chadwick: my best um at the very least at that meeting you can have um uh yeah i i mean i'm gonna

[1:54:00] Planner Chadwick: i'll do my darndest to see what i can get to you but i

[1:54:03] Voice 1: i my sense is we shouldn't i think it's

[1:54:05] Voice 1: unreasonable to expect draft bylaws but like an action plan is

[1:54:09] Planner Chadwick: that doable yeah i think that's

[1:54:11] Planner Chadwick: doable the action plan is doable and and maybe some questions like i like i think there's some

[1:54:16] Planner Chadwick: a few outstanding questions we can have some further discussion on yeah and

[1:54:20] Planner Chadwick: we can and we

[1:54:21] Voice 1: And if we, if we've got more stuff that, or if you want to have like an update or a check-in,

[1:54:25] Voice 1: we could probably schedule another special meeting if necessary

[1:54:27] Planner Chadwick: to do that in between.

[1:54:29] Planner Chadwick: And I can

[1:54:30] Planner Chadwick: provide a bit of analysis around some of the things we talked about that we

[1:54:33] Planner Chadwick: have examples for like the flex housing and cistern sizes and floor area sizes.

[1:54:41] Planner Chadwick: I can, I can dig into that a little bit.

[1:54:43] Voice 6: Okay.

[1:54:44] Voice 6: All right.

[1:54:45] Voice 6: Well, I'm, I'm, I don't, not sure if I'll get this right, Vicki, so please bear with

[1:54:49] Voice 6: with me, but I will move that the Demmon Local Trust Committee request staff to develop an action

[1:54:55] Voice 6: plan in preparation for developing,

[1:55:02] Voice 5: to

[1:55:02] Voice 6: inform, thank you, to inform draft bylaws regarding

[1:55:07] Voice 6: housing review. And I'm not going to list, you've got the listing. So am I going to reference a

[1:55:15] Voice 6: document that you're going to provide, Vicky, or how does that work? Sorry,

[1:55:21] Planner Chadwick: you're asking the

[1:55:23] Planner Chadwick: question to me is

[1:55:23] Voice 6: that is that is that motion clear enough to you yeah

[1:55:27] Planner Chadwick: yeah that gives me

[1:55:27] Planner Chadwick: direction yeah yeah

[1:55:29] Voice 6: vicky did you get that

[1:55:30] Planner Chadwick: yes i got that thank

[1:55:33] Trustee Maude: you okay seconded by trustee

[1:55:35] Trustee Maude: borthwick any other discussion well we'll call the question all in favor that carries that's one

[1:55:44] Voice 6: let's look at these other ones then we're running out of time here

[1:55:47] Voice 1: well so this other this other

[1:55:48] Voice 1: one was you want you need direction to start drafting the draft bylaws correct nerissa

[1:55:53] Planner Chadwick: um yes

[1:55:56] Voice 1: um because then you can just get to work on it as well yeah

[1:55:59] Planner Chadwick: then it's there yeah and

[1:56:00] Planner Chadwick: so at any time

[1:56:02] Planner Chadwick: yeah

[1:56:02] Voice 1: uh so

[1:56:06] Planner Chadwick: requesting staff yet to begin drafting yeah you're gonna take a

[1:56:13] Voice 1: stab in it you good yeah

[1:56:14] Voice 1: well i just so i'm trying to think of what to refer it to so the gammon island housing review

[1:56:22] Voice 1: review project report uh

[1:56:25] Planner Chadwick: yeah yeah

[1:56:26] Voice 1: uh all right I move that the Denman local trust committee uh

[1:56:31] Voice 1: request staff to begin drafting bylaws uh you

[1:56:40] Planner Chadwick: could say related to options identified in the

[1:56:43] Planner Chadwick: yeah

[1:56:43] Voice 1: related to options identified in uh the uh the review the February 20th special meeting

[1:56:51] Voice 1: staff report perfect yeah um is

[1:56:57] Voice 1: that is that good vicky i

[1:57:00] Voice 3: got that yep

[1:57:00] Trustee Maude: okay i

[1:57:01] Voice 3: don't know if it's

[1:57:02] Voice 3: good but i have it

[1:57:03] Trustee Maude: so seconded by trustee graham yep okay so any discussion call the question all

[1:57:10] Trustee Maude: in favor great and that carries good and

[1:57:16] Planner Chadwick: then i'm encouraging the a special meeting on the

[1:57:19] Planner Chadwick: suitable land analysis so you can understand how and once so once you've passed this basically what

[1:57:24] Planner Chadwick: it does is it um so right now we've just got a prototype um which is based on north pender

[1:57:30] Planner Chadwick: and so if you pass this once you've passed this it gives us direction to

[1:57:34] Planner Chadwick: focus on denman as the next um as the next community gotcha and this

[1:57:40] Voice 1: is all based on

[1:57:41] Voice 1: existing data that's what

[1:57:43] Planner Chadwick: you're saying in

[1:57:44] Voice 1: this so this is not there's no no new

[1:57:47] Voice 1: tool that really

[1:57:48] Voice 1: needs to be developed it's just being adapted to apply to that's

[1:57:52] Planner Chadwick: right and it's just what i

[1:57:53] Planner Chadwick: understand is it's it's sort of like a week of work for um well we william and uh and and our um

[1:58:00] Planner Chadwick: our is team great

[1:58:02] Voice 1: uh i'm happy to submit that second trustee graham

[1:58:09] Voice 1: um

[1:58:10] Voice 6: yeah i'll second but

[1:58:11] Voice 1: i would like to speak we'll have some discussion yeah

[1:58:13] Voice 1: i had a feeling

[1:58:15] Voice 4: so

[1:58:17] Voice 1: um do you do you need me to make the motion or is it good as is

[1:58:23] Voice 1: i

[1:58:24] Voice 6: think she read it out yeah

[1:58:26] Voice 1: that's my that was my sense um i move that the demin island local

[1:58:31] Voice 1: trust committee request staff to schedule a special meeting to review the suitable land

[1:58:35] Voice 1: analysis mapping tool prior to any community information meeting and actually i might even

[1:58:40] Voice 1: strike that i guess

[1:58:42] Voice 1: prior to is fine but i would just strike it i would leave out prior to

[1:58:45] Voice 1: community information meeting i don't think that's yeah just

[1:58:49] Voice 6: stop it at tool yeah okay

[1:58:51] Voice 6: Okay, I will second that as amended.

[1:58:55] Voice 6: Okay, so discussion.

[1:58:58] Voice 6: So this is just a tool and it's not, it's something that the local trust committee can

[1:59:06] Voice 6: use or not use depending on its application, depending on its depth and the information

[1:59:10] Voice 6: it presents.

[1:59:11] Voice 6: So it's just another tool, might be very useful for in particular multifamily developments,

[1:59:17] Voice 6: developments may not be as useful for what we're looking at, simply looking at a zone and allowing

[1:59:22] Voice 6: them to have a suite or a secondary dwelling. So that's fair enough. That's a fair enough comment.

[1:59:28] Planner Chadwick: Yeah. I mean, again, I don't know what the data looks like yet. I mean, if the data reveals that

[1:59:35] Planner Chadwick: there's an area where there's, you know, no water, it's prone to fire, it's just a, you know, it's an

[1:59:42] Planner Chadwick: absolutely terrible place for somebody to live. You may not want to add more people there.

[1:59:46] Planner Chadwick: But it remains to be seen what the data will reveal.

[1:59:49] Planner Chadwick: So you can use it in however you'd like to use it.

[1:59:53] Planner Chadwick: Right.

[1:59:53] Voice 6: The comment made by someone, I can't remember who it was, is if the

[2:00:00] Voice 6: if the suitable land analysis mapping tool was used on the on the land that the current coho

[2:00:06] Voice 6: development is on we probably wouldn't go there and yet that that has worked out just fine so it's

[2:00:11] Voice 6: again you've got to be very careful with these tools it's not black and white it's a it's very

[2:00:15] Voice 6: gray as to how we use that tool so as long as we're clear on

[2:00:18] Trustee Maude: that yeah

[2:00:19] Voice 6: okay thank you

[2:00:20] Trustee Maude: and that's

[2:00:22] Trustee Maude: my cautionary tale it's like um my experience with it has not been great um okay between maine north

[2:00:30] Trustee Maude: and saturn there's not been a lot of happiness um with the first drafts of it um and but i think

[2:00:37] Trustee Maude: demon would be simpler because um your composition is a little bit like more straightforward of

[2:00:43] Trustee Maude: basically the the the natural environment um versus our our rocky islands with with different

[2:00:50] Trustee Maude: substrates and all that a lot more complex i think to determine accurate data and accurate

[2:00:56] Trustee Maude: information but I just give a cautionary tale is that it hasn't gone over very

[2:01:02] Trustee Maude: well in the southern islands right

[2:01:03] Voice 6: fair enough well we'll look at it I would

[2:01:05] Planner Chadwick: just add that we haven't actually we don't actually have the analysis yet for

[2:01:10] Planner Chadwick: it was the I think you're referring to the water water analysis chair mud

[2:01:16] Planner Chadwick: because I haven't we haven't actually introduced the full suitable land

[2:01:20] Planner Chadwick: analysis to those islands yet it's still in a prototype form so yeah it's I think

[2:01:26] Voice 1: it's important to you to remember that it's a tool it's not an obligation and i think that that needs

[2:01:30] Voice 1: to be maintained in how we approach it it's like it it's an option but it shouldn't overwhelm a

[2:01:37] Voice 1: decision otherwise one way or the other yeah

[2:01:39] Planner Chadwick: and i mean it's kind of cool because you can you can

[2:01:42] Planner Chadwick: weight different uh um data sets you know if there's something that's much more important

[2:01:48] Planner Chadwick: to the community to you know under to to evaluate uh development against and you can toggle that up

[2:01:58] Planner Chadwick: and i mean it's quite quite neat the way that's been designed that way

[2:02:01] Voice 6: okay no more questions

[2:02:05] Voice 6: for me

[2:02:06] Trustee Maude: okay so call the question on the paper that carries well

[2:02:14] Planner Chadwick: there you go 402

[2:02:16] Voice 6: that's pretty good

[2:02:17] Planner Chadwick: yeah well shall

[2:02:19] Voice 6: we look at that uh plan your couch and engagement website

[2:02:22] Voice 6: site uh we don't need that right now yeah

[2:02:24] Planner Chadwick: i don't think so no because i mean if you don't feel like

[2:02:27] Planner Chadwick: you need any like detailed engagement it would really only be useful if you're if you're wanting

[2:02:31] Planner Chadwick: to gather more feedback but it sounds like you're

[2:02:34] Planner Chadwick: good i

[2:02:35] Voice 1: i think we i think we are and i think

[2:02:37] Voice 1: they'll i think the community will have a lot more respect for our process if we start to move the

[2:02:42] Voice 1: needle and then they get to put their teeth into it when it's when we're biting it at at nebulous

[2:02:47] Voice 1: shadows and we're not we're not really making anything happen so

[2:02:51] Voice 1: i

[2:02:52] Voice 5: do

[2:02:55] Voice 6: have one more concern and it's with regards to first nations um um

[2:03:00] Voice 6: addict or not what's the word my brain is starting to go engagement thank

[2:03:04] Voice 6: you engagement um the last

[2:03:06] Voice 6: conversation that i heard uh it looked like we were doing a kind of an omnibus engagement

[2:03:13] Voice 6: engagement opportunity for First Nations, including the Comas rezoning and anything

[2:03:18] Voice 6: else that First Nations wanted to talk about.

[2:03:21] Voice 6: And I was thinking about it the other day, that engagement with First Nations regarding

[2:03:27] Voice 6: the Comas Development Corporation should be a cost recovery applied to the applicant.

[2:03:36] Voice 6: I do not think it's appropriate for community money to be spent engaging First Nations on

[2:03:41] Voice 6: an application which benefits a corporation so i really think the housing review engagement needs

[2:03:48] Voice 6: to be separate from all other items for first nations and that that that's that's really

[2:03:54] Voice 6: important from my perspective yeah

[2:03:56] Planner Chadwick: so i don't agree with that

[2:03:57] Planner Chadwick: i don't know who i'm speaking

[2:03:58] Voice 6: to i don't know yeah well

[2:03:59] Planner Chadwick: i'll share that i'll share that with so renee is is kind of the one

[2:04:03] Planner Chadwick: she's the

[2:04:03] Planner Chadwick: one that's uh um she's starting to manage a lot of the first nations engagement so

[2:04:08] Planner Chadwick: So we shifted things a little bit.

[2:04:09] Planner Chadwick: So she's taking on that responsibility with a number of nations right now.

[2:04:15] Planner Chadwick: So I will definitely share that information with her.

[2:04:21] Planner Chadwick: I've been in one conversation with the COMOC staff, which went very well, by the way.

[2:04:28] Planner Chadwick: It was really great because it was about us both kind of understanding our processes

[2:04:33] Planner Chadwick: and how their decisions are made and how our decisions are made.

[2:04:38] Planner Chadwick: so it was really it was really um a really useful um conversation and they seem very interested in

[2:04:44] Planner Chadwick: trying to figure out how to work well with us generally with all of us um so yeah i'll

[2:04:51] Planner Chadwick: definitely bring that up with um um with renee um i know she'd mentioned it was something that they

[2:04:56] Planner Chadwick: were concerned about um but uh uh but i totally understand where your perspective is coming from

[2:05:02] Planner Chadwick: and particularly

[2:05:03] Voice 6: because the budget for that engagement is coming directly from the housing

[2:05:08] Planner Chadwick: budget well yeah

[2:05:09] Voice 6: that's but she included the comos rezoning and that's that's that's an

[2:05:13] Voice 6: inappropriate use of public funds that should be a cost recovery that should be an applicant cost

[2:05:17] Voice 6: period and that's really important that we get that distinction thank you okay

[2:05:21] Planner Chadwick: yeah i'll send

[2:05:22] Planner Chadwick: that message to renee right away thank

[2:05:24] Voice 6: you okay cool okay

[2:05:28] Planner Chadwick: good

[2:05:29] Voice 6: meeting great

[2:05:31] Planner Chadwick: yeah thank you so

[2:05:31] Planner Chadwick: much thanks for all your input it was really uh really good and uh yeah i'm glad we

[2:05:36] Planner Chadwick: we managed to

[2:05:37] Planner Chadwick: to end on time ish

[2:05:40] Trustee Maude: so move second by trustee borthwick all in favor

[2:05:49] Trustee Maude: kerry thank

[2:05:50] Trustee Maude: you very much everybody okay thank you thanks everyone

[2:05:53] Voice 3: a quick and wonderful solution.

[2:05:55] Trustee Maude: All right.

[2:05:57] Trustee Maude: Okay, bye now.

[2:05:58] Voice 3: Bye.

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Denman Island ADOPTED 1 
Local Trust Committee Special Meeting Minutes 
February 20, 2024
 
 
Denman Island Local Trust Committee 
Minutes of Special Meeting 
 
Date:  
Location:  
February 20, 2024 
Electronic Meeting 
 
Members Present: David Maude, Chair 
 David Graham, Trustee 
 Sam Borthwick, Trustee 
  
Staff Present: Narissa Chadwick, Island Planner 
 Vicky Bockman, Recorder 
  
  
Others Present: There were approximately two (2) members of the public in attendance. 
 
1. CALL TO ORDER 
“Please note, the order of agenda items may be modified during the meeting. Times are provided 
for convenience only and are subject to change.” 
Chair Maude called the meeting to order at 2:00 pm. He welcomed the public; introduced 
himself, Local Trustees, staff and recorder; and acknowledged that the meeting was held on the 
territory of the Coast Salish First Nations.  
He explained that the purpose of this meeting is to review and discuss the staff review of the 
Housing Advisory Planning Commission (HAPC) Housing Report and is anticipated to be primarily 
an information gathering session for Trustees. He noted that there will be opportunity for public 
input during a future in-person meeting on Denman Island. 
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 
By general consent the agenda was approved as presented. 
3. BUSINESS ITEMS 
3.1 Denman Island Housing Review Project - Housing Options Based on Review of Denman 
Housing Advisory Planning Commission - Staff Report 
Planner Chadwick commented that the purpose of this Staff Report is to present 
recommendations, options, and an opportunity for the Local Trust Committee (LTC) to 
discuss next steps.  

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 Other points in the overview of the Staff Report included the following. 
 There is an option to include an online public engagement process for this 
project through the “Plan Your Cowichan” website, which has been created by 
the Cowichan Valley Regional District to extend support for local governments 
including Denman and Hornby Islands. The site would be accessed through a 
link to its page within the Islands Trust website should next steps include 
participation in this service. 
 The use of the Suitable Land Analysis mapping tool was suggested to provide 
information on where additional housing may be best located and areas that 
may be less appropriate. An information session for the LTC to review the tool 
was suggested. 
 The primary emphasis of this project is land use-focused amendments that can 
be made to the Official Community Plan (OCP) and Land Use Bylaw (LUB). All 
options in the HAPC report supported by the LTC including affordability 
measures, education and engagement, and advocacy that are not considered 
land use options can be captured in a Housing Action Plan for consideration 
separately from this project. 
 Attachment 4: Draft Islands Trust Housing Strategic Action Plan was distributed 
electronically to LTC members. 
Staff and Trustees reviewed the attachments provided in the Staff Report with the 
following comments noted.  
Table 1: Increase Opportunities for Primary Dwellings, Secondary Suites and Accessory 
Dwelling Units (ADUs) 
 
HAPC No. HAPC Recommended Actions LTC Comments 
HAPC 1 Legalize all existing housing Legal non-conforming status 
comment needs to be expanded for 
clarity. This recommendation would 
have to be site-specific 
HAPC 2 Permit dwelling units in all zones 
except for conservation, park, R4 
and water zones 
 
Supported 
HAPC 3 Consistency with Agricultural 
Land Commission regulations 
With a slight difference in 
cumulative footprint of all dwellings. 
Supported 
HAPC 4 Permit secondary suites in all 
zones where dwellings are 
permitted 
 
Supported 
HAPC 5 Permit alternative types of 
accessory dwelling units (ADUs) 
in all zones where housing is 
Defining an ADU is not necessary. 
They are all accessory dwelling units 
from a land use perspective.  
Supported with requirement for 

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Denman Island ADOPTED 3 
Local Trust Committee Special Meeting Minutes 
February 20, 2024
 
permitted (e.g. yurts, RVs, tiny 
homes) 
servicing by appropriate water or 
waste disposal service. 
HAPC 6 Permit accessory dwelling units 
in all zones where residential use 
is permitted 
Supported with number and size of 
dwellings proportional to the size of 
the lot 
HAPC 7 Allow room rentals with a 
number of requirements 
This is currently allowed. No change 
to room rental requirement 
HAPC 8 Remove the temporary use 
permit (TUP) requirement for 
ADUs 
 
Supported 
HAPC 9 Eliminate Density Bank Supported 
HAPC 10 Restrict Vacation Rentals to 
home-based guest 
accommodation contained in the 
primary dwelling unit 
Report from Bylaw Compliance on 
this issue is forthcoming. Consider 
decision after receipt of analysis 
 
 
 
 
STAFF No. Staff-identified Options LTC Comments 
 
STAFF 1 Permit subdivision in all land use 
designation where dwellings are 
permitted if land is being donated 
to a not-for-profit or government 
agency providing affordable 
housing 
 
Supported on a case-by-case basis 
STAFF 2 Permit a reduction of minimum 
parcel size in some designations to 
facilitate donation of land for 
affordable housing 
 
Supported 
STAFF 3 Allow subdivision only if a portion 
of land is being donated for 
affordable housing 
Supported. This downzoning 
approach encourages more market 
and affordable housing 
STAFF 4 Require workforce housing as a 
condition of rezonings for 
commercial/institutions and 
industrial purposes 
 
Limited interest in this option, given 
Denman Island context  
 
STAFF 5 Include policies related to ALR 
exclusion to support affordable 
housing options 
Review OCP policies. Does current 
language capture this? 

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Table 2: Increase Opportunities for Multi-Tenant and Multi-Land-Ownership 
Affordable Housing Projects 
 
HAPC No. HAPC Recommended Actions LTC Comments 
HAPC 11 Expediting approvals for multi-
tenant housing 
Support for action through OCP 
policies rather than pre-zoning 
HAPC 12 Medium-Density Multi-Family 
Zone 
Action not recommended at this 
time. 
HAPC 13 Home-Based Assisted Living Zone Ensure OCP policies support this 
type of development 
HAPC 14 Pre-zone for Tiny Home Village Ensure OCP policies support this 
type of development 
HAPC 15 Create an Eco-Zone Flexibility in definition of ADU keeps 
this a possible option 
 
STAFF No. Staff Identified Options LTC Comments 
STAFF 6 Allow variations in housing that 
support use of shared facilities 
Supported 
STAFF 7 Review zoning of properties that 
are currently zoned for multiple 
dwellings 
 
Supported 
 
Table 3: Minimize the Environmental Impact on Land 
 
HAPC No. HAPC Recommended Actions LTC Comments 
HAPC 16 Implement maximum combined 
floor area for dwellings 
Supported with attention given to 
lot coverage detail 
HAPC 17 Properties with an existing 
primary dwelling built before this 
bylaw should be allowed an ADU 
with a maximum floor area 
Generally supported. Staff 
requested to provide suggestion 
based on Siting and Use Permit 
information or other island 
examples 
HAPC 18 Cistern requirements for new 
builds and additional housing 
Supported 
HAPC 19 Encourage re/use of existing 
buildings, and alternative forms 
of housing 
Related to education and advocacy 
which might be a Trust-wide 
initiative. Add to Housing Action 
Plan 

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Local Trust Committee Special Meeting Minutes 
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HAPC 20 Encourage the use of natural 
building materials and “off-grid” 
systems 
Difficult to administer. Related to 
education and advocacy. Add to 
Housing Action Plan 
HAPC 21 Encourage and promote 
conservation focused innovation 
in new affordable housing 
 
Supported 
 
STAFF No. Staff Identified Options LTC Comments 
STAFF 8 Update potable water 
requirements for subdivision 
Generally supported. Staff 
requested to review 
STAFF 9 Establish floor area lot coverage 
maximums where appropriate 
Supported. Include impervious 
surfaces as well as structures 
STAFF 10 Prohibit groundwater fed 
swimming pools 
Staff requested to review with 
creative solutions possible 
 
Table 4: Implementing Affordability Measures 
 
HAPC No. HAPC Recommended Actions LTC Comments 
HAPC 22 Use a “density bonus” approach 
to allow additional units on single 
privately owned lots in exchange 
for those units being rented at 
affordable rates 
Ensuring and enforcing affordability 
of units is difficult other than through 
property owner housing agreements 
which require unavailable staff and 
time to administer. Staff recognized 
that currently the only way to ensure 
affordability is through the “purpose-
built” approach through not-for-
profit providers with housing 
agreements, and suggested that work 
can be done to support this 
approach. 
 
 
Table 5: Other Related OCP and LUB Changes 
 
HAPC No. HAPC Recommended Actions LTC Comments 
HAPC 23 Update and Amend the OCP and 
LUB 
Supported 
HAPC 24 Changing references to “the 
Village” to “Downtown Denman” 
Supported 
HAPC 25 Preserve and enhance public 
walkways and cycle paths 
Advocacy related. Add to Housing 
Action Plan 
 

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Local Trust Committee Special Meeting Minutes 
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Staff No. Staff Identified Options LTC Comments 
STAFF 11 Update policies that are outdated Supported 
STAFF 12 Revisit site-specific exemptions in 
light of potential changes to 
secondary dwelling policy 
 
Supported 
STAFF 13 Review definitions to ensure 
consistency with OCP and LUB 
update 
 
Supported 
STAFF 14 Revise OCP and LUB format to 
support readability 
No need to consider at this time 
 
Table 6: Bylaw Enforcement 
 
HAPC No. 
 
HAPC Recommended Action LTC Comments 
HAPC 
26-33 
Various bylaw enforcement 
recommendations involving site 
visit requirements, training, 
complaint process, decisions to 
be made by Denman Islanders 
Current focus is land use 
amendments. Review of bylaw 
enforcement policies is currently 
being undertaken. Could be an 
opportunity for broader Trust-level 
involvement with educational 
engagement 
 
Table7: Education and Engagement 
 
HAPC No. HAPC Recommended Action LTC Comments 
HAPC  
34-37 
Various education actions to 
encourage affordable housing, 
cost-efficient building methods, 
government incentives and 
subsidies for housing, encourage 
natural building materials and 
off-grid systems 
There are opportunities here for 
Trust-wide and Comox Valley 
Regional District (CVRD) education 
activities.  
 
Staff No. Staff Identified Options LTC Comments 
STAFF 15 Set up bi-annual meeting with 
Comox Valley Regional District 
related to housing 
Supported in general. 
 
Table 8: Advocacy 
 

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Denman Island ADOPTED 7 
Local Trust Committee Special Meeting Minutes 
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HAPC 50 
 
 
 
 
HAPC 51 
Advocating to Island Health to 
find ways to legalize composting 
toilets and outhouses 
 
Advocate to Island Health to 
find ways to legalize greywater 
systems without requiring a 
septic system 
 
When designing zones, include text 
to permit use of systems with grey 
water and composting toilets  
 
Trustees discussed possible next steps in the project with the following noted: 
 Prior to drafting bylaw amendments, staff will provide a Staff Report with a 
summary of options supported by the LTC in a Housing Action Plan along with 
identifications of actions that might benefit from additional analysis. 
 Addressing the more straightforward amendments separately from those that 
might benefit from more analysis and engagement would be possible through 
the creation of a part one and part two approach should the LTC prefer that 
strategy. 
 The recent Open House was well attended and served to acquaint the 
community with the HAPC’s report and recommendations. LTC members 
recommended additional community engagement be held after the draft bylaws 
have received first reading. 
 Entering into the “Plan Your Cowichan” engagement website was not 
considered to be a necessary initiative at this time. 
 Review of the Suitable Land Analysis Mapping tool to familiarize Trustees with 
its functions was supported. 
 
DE-2024-021 
It was MOVED and SECONDED, 
that the Denman Island Local Trust Committee request staff to develop an action plan to 
inform draft bylaws regarding the Housing Review. 
CARRIED 
 
HAPC No. HAPC Recommended Actions LTC Comments 
HAPC 38-49, 
52 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Various directed to Islands Trust, 
CVRD, Province 
 
 
 
Advocacy is out of scope for the 
Housing Review project. Some of these 
suggestions are included in the Islands 
Trust Housing Strategic Action Plan 
and can be considered on Trust-wide 
basis 

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Denman Island ADOPTED 8 
Local Trust Committee Special Meeting Minutes 
February 20, 2024
 
DE-2024-022 
It was MOVED and SECONDED, 
that the Denman Island Local Trust Committee request staff to begin drafting bylaws 
relating to options identified in the February 20, 2024 Special Meeting Staff Report. 
CARRIED 
 
 
DE-2024-023 
It was MOVED and SECONDED, 
that the Denman Island Local Trust Committee request staff to schedule a special 
meeting to review the Suitable Land Analysis Mapping tool. 
CARRIED 
 
A Trustee recognized that the Suitable Land Analysis Mapping tool is an option with applications that 
may be useful for some developments; and noted that the Local Trust Committee can use, or not use, 
the tool at its discretion. 
A Trustee spoke to the issue of First Nations Engagement, expressing a concern that it is important that 
consultation on this Housing Review project be separated from all other First Nation engagements; an 
application will be coming forward which will likely involve a cost-recovery agreement. Planner 
Chadwick will advise staff working on First Nation engagement activities of this concern.  
4. ADJOURNMENT 
By general consent the meeting was adjourned at 4:06 pm. 
 
 
_________________________ 
David Maude, Chair 
 
Certified Correct: 
 
 
_________________________ 
Vicky Bockman, Recorder