South Pender Island Local Trust Committee community information meeting, April 7, 2024

[0:00:16] Voice 2: good afternoon thank you for joining us today for the special meeting

[0:00:21] Voice 2: ah

[0:00:21] Voice 8: we

[0:00:26] Voice 2: gotcha thank you for joining us for the special meeting of self-pended local

[0:00:29] Voice 2: trust committee you don't know who i am i'm david maude i'm from

[0:00:34] Voice 2: main island um uh toby your regular chairs asked me to step in today and your next special meeting

[0:00:41] Voice 2: um it's just because i mean i'm a hot skip and a jump away so they asked me to come over and

[0:00:47] Voice 2: help out the best way i have so i'm going to be very quiet sitting in the corner this is the um

[0:00:52] Voice 2: your two trustees will start to be running the program today um so i just want to begin the

[0:00:57] Voice 2: meeting by acknowledging that we're fortunate to be able to gather today the locations across

[0:01:01] Voice 2: across the territory of the Coast Salish Nations.

[0:01:03] Voice 2: I'm David Maud, I'm elected the Main Island Chair

[0:01:05] Voice 2: of the South.

[0:01:06] Voice 2: Well, I guess today I am

[0:01:08] Voice 2: Chair of the South Pender

[0:01:09] Voice 2: Local Trust Committee.

[0:01:11] Voice 2: I join today with your two South Pender trustees,

[0:01:15] Voice 2: Mr. Nick Evans and Dan Platt.

[0:01:17] Voice 2: You have our planner here, Kim Stockdale.

[0:01:22] Voice 2: We have Emily Bryant,

[0:01:23] Voice 2: and Kim's gonna be doing the minutes also today.

[0:01:26] Voice 2: Emily Bryant's in the office being our special

[0:01:29] Voice 2: Zoom puppet master,

[0:01:30] Voice 2: which we do sincerely appreciate on a Sunday afternoon and we're just going to carry forward.

[0:01:37] Voice 2: I'll give you the normal formal stuff. This meeting is an official forum.

[0:01:41] Voice 2: Pre-welcome trust committee to make decisions about land use planning matters to discuss relevant business.

[0:01:45] Voice 2: I want to add this is a place of employment despite the fact many staff members are at home.

[0:01:50] Voice 2: Our staff have the right to a safe and respectful workplace. So we have an agenda for us.

[0:01:55] Voice 2: It's fairly straightforward. Are there any additions or comments on that?

[0:01:59] Voice 2: so by consent we'll adopt that agenda um and we will move forward and so

[0:02:06] Voice 2: who wants to sort of introduce the topic okay

[0:02:10] Trustee Evans: again all right um so at the back there we've

[0:02:13] Trustee Evans: got a problem out so what we're going to do today is we're going to follow the um the order in which

[0:02:19] Trustee Evans: they're on the on the sheet and for each of the topics we're just going to ask him to give a

[0:02:27] Trustee Evans: little brief background and history of where the changes came from and um then we'll put the floor

[0:02:33] Trustee Evans: up for any comments so really um this community information meeting is to hear if anyone has any

[0:02:39] Trustee Evans: issues with the way that this this is written and um if we do if there's anything that might be

[0:02:46] Trustee Evans: if there's anything that that might feel controversial then we'll put a pin in it

[0:02:56] Trustee Evans: and we will continue to talk about it. If there is

[0:02:59] Trustee Evans: no issue with it, then we can put a check mark

[0:03:01] Trustee Evans: by it and we can move on. Sound good?

[0:03:08] Voice 10: It may or may not come up, but it might be tempting to comment on the bylaw that's not

[0:03:16] Voice 10: redlined here, or blacklined. And I think we'll take that on case by case. If somebody says,

[0:03:22] Voice 10: you know that should say something else than it says it's not change from one uh one one four one

[0:03:29] Voice 10: two two then that's a little bit outside of what we're doing here today so we will hear it i i

[0:03:36] Voice 10: think we will hear it but we'll make a decision whether we'll continue with any discussion or not

[0:03:42] Voice 10: we might just take it as an out for information or for us to consider later just so that we keep

[0:03:47] Voice 10: that in mind is that sometimes when there's a lot of text that is tempting to comment on

[0:03:52] Voice 10: the text has been black which is the previous file that we're not discussing right are we getting

[0:03:59] Voice 5: certain feedback somewhere well

[0:04:02] Voice 10: probably it was probably

[0:04:04] Voice 9: me okay there

[0:04:05] Voice 9: we go oh that's worse

[0:04:07] Voice 9: oh it

[0:04:12] Voice 5: was me

[0:04:20] Voice 2: so the intent is about 30 minutes per topic is that the idea about

[0:04:24] Trustee Evans: that give or take i mean so

[0:04:26] Voice 2: we'll just do one topic at a time yeah

[0:04:28] Trustee Evans: so the first topic is going to be i believe going through

[0:04:33] Trustee Evans: the definitions which i think is fairly straightforward

[0:04:38] Voice 10: page seven on there that's

[0:04:42] Voice 10: page four the

[0:04:43] Trustee Evans: definitions yeah

[0:04:45] Voice 10: the one uh one is added there one of us changed the printed one

[0:04:50] Voice 11: the printed one is page four page four okay

[0:04:54] Voice 11: yeah thank you

[0:04:58] Voice 11: i want to ask why they

[0:05:02] Trustee Evans: are not meeting on south pender so the reason why we're not meeting on

[0:05:06] Trustee Evans: south panda was a couple of different reasons one um just in case these became large meetings

[0:05:13] Trustee Evans: The fire pool can only take so many people in there.

[0:05:18] Trustee Evans: So we did meet there. I think there might be, we're pretty close or maybe over the number of people that can be in there.

[0:05:24] Trustee Evans: So we'd have to cancel the meeting and rebook it.

[0:05:26] Voice 11: Okay, so it's because, okay,

[0:05:28] Trustee Evans: because frankly, I thought it was very disrespectful that we can't be on self-centred.

[0:05:32] Trustee Evans: And the other part...

[0:05:33] Trustee Evans: Just because we think too many people come.

[0:05:35] Trustee Evans: And the other part is Coets Cove is very, very, very expensive and we need our entire budget.

[0:05:41] Trustee Evans: it we couldn't do anything else um

[0:05:44] Voice 11: okay so

[0:05:45] Trustee Evans: what do you guys think do you think that the fire hall

[0:05:47] Trustee Evans: was okay so

[0:05:48] Voice 11: i'm

[0:05:49] Trustee Evans: just going to ask okay if you guys have got any comments you'd like to tell us

[0:05:52] Trustee Evans: and we're just basing this off the past the community information meetings that were held

[0:06:01] Trustee Evans: in the previous term there was just too many people so didn't want to be disrespectful by

[0:06:06] Trustee Evans: have to cancel and rebook okay

[0:06:13] Voice 9: yes so

[0:06:15] Voice 2: your first topic is

[0:06:17] Trustee Evans: just going through the definitions because

[0:06:18] Trustee Evans: there's a number of changes in the definitions here and i don't i don't but there was one that

[0:06:25] Trustee Evans: came tonight yes

[0:06:27] Voice 5: did you want me to go through just the definitions right now sure a couple um

[0:06:32] Voice 5: i put two separate documents at the front one is a copy of the entirety of bylaw 122 and that's the

[0:06:39] Voice 5: the amending bylaw that was adopted about a year and a half ago that made changes to the land use

[0:06:45] Voice 5: bylaw number 114. And then I printed off a second document with these red lines. And this includes

[0:06:53] Voice 5: just the topics that we're discussing today. This is what it looks like now once bylaw 122 was

[0:07:00] Voice 5: adopted. Everything in red shows the changes that were made to land use bylaw 114. So if you look

[0:07:07] Voice 5: at bylaw 122 and i think the first one is the definition of agritourism and that's why you're

[0:07:13] Voice 5: seeing it here in red so i'll just briefly go over some of the definitions in red and if somebody's

[0:07:20] Voice 5: missing this i have one here i can find the one on my screen if anybody needs it so just let me know

[0:07:25] Voice 5: um all the definitions in regards to agritourism or agriculture are definitions that the ltc

[0:07:33] Voice 5: requested to be put into the land use bylaw so they're compliant with the Agricultural Land

[0:07:39] Voice 5: Commission policies and regulations. So these definitions were pulled from the ALC. So

[0:07:46] Voice 5: agritourism, agritourist accommodation, farm retail sales and farm status, those were pulled

[0:07:56] Voice 5: from the ALC. And then the other definition, basement floor area. So the basement floor area

[0:08:07] Voice 5: actually doesn't show up anywhere in the land use bylaw. So this definition has no force or effect.

[0:08:14] Voice 5: The reason why the previous LTC put it in bylaw 122 was because the previous LTC were thinking of

[0:08:24] Voice 5: amending the definition of floor area to exclude the basement floor but that was

[0:08:32] Voice 5: actually never done so although the land use bylaw includes a definition of a

[0:08:38] Voice 5: basement floor area it's not found anywhere else in the land use bylaw so

[0:08:42] Voice 5: it has no force or effect the last item is the definition of cottage so

[0:08:49] Voice 5: So previously, the definition of a cottage had the floor area or maximum floor area of 70 square meters.

[0:08:57] Voice 5: And definitions in a land use bylaw cannot be varied.

[0:09:02] Voice 5: So we've had issues where there's a circumstance where somebody wanted to construct a cottage that was over 70 square meters.

[0:09:11] Voice 5: They couldn't actually apply for a variance because you can't actually vary a definition.

[0:09:15] Voice 5: mission so what we did was we took out the maximum floor area of 70 meters we changed the definition

[0:09:23] Voice 5: to state that as well a cottage means a dwelling with unlimited floor area and then we put that

[0:09:30] Voice 5: regulation the maximum floor area of 70 meters in each individual zone and that now allows property

[0:09:37] Voice 5: owners to apply for a development variance permit or a board of variance to vary the floor area of

[0:09:44] Voice 5: the cottage. And I believe those are the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 changes to definitions.

[0:09:53] Trustee Evans: One more. Oh,

[0:09:55] Voice 5: we're at a change. There's from the bottom, floor area measured to the inner

[0:09:59] Voice 5: versus the outside. Good catch. Pardon me. So yes, this is actually a really important

[0:10:04] Voice 5: one. So, pardon me. Stage 5. I missed it as well. Good catch. This is a really important

[0:10:13] Voice 5: So previously, when we were calculating floor area, the calculation was to the exterior of the exterior wall, so the back side of the wall.

[0:10:25] Voice 5: Now, the calculation of floor area is to the inner side of the wall, and that's because nowadays we're seeing new technology of insulation has become thicker and thicker and thicker,

[0:10:41] Voice 5: that we don't want to penalize those property owners that have dwellings that are complying with new regulations,

[0:10:48] Voice 5: which make the thickness of the walls larger.

[0:10:51] Voice 5: So we changed the calculation from the outside of the exterior wall to the inside of the exterior wall.

[0:11:00] Voice 10: On page five, I will also look at farm retail sales and farm status.

[0:11:06] Voice 9: On page

[0:11:07] Voice 10: four, farm retail sales and farm status.

[0:11:11] Voice 10: Yeah,

[0:11:11] Voice 5: so those were definitions that were pulled from the NRC.

[0:11:15] Voice 5: Yeah.

[0:11:25] Voice 9: Yes, we're going on to page 16.

[0:11:31] Voice 10: So should

[0:11:32] Voice 10: we pause there and ask if there's a question?

[0:11:35] Voice 10: I

[0:11:36] Trustee Evans: wasn't sure if it was page 16.

[0:11:39] Trustee Evans: So I'm just saying that I was just curious, could you turn it over and it's page 16, but then it's obviously something else.

[0:11:45] Trustee Evans: So I was just making sure it wasn't anything related to this any further.

[0:11:48] Trustee Evans: So we'll take

[0:11:49] Voice 10: questions on what we've talked about so far. Any comments, any questions, any concerns, changes you want to see, if you want to keep it the way it is, anything you want to say.

[0:12:09] Voice 10: I'm just curious about this inner and outer. It seems to me that people don't want to insulate and not really pick a house.

[0:12:17] Voice 10: Why don't we put some R-Value in there, so if you want to put some R-Value in the inside,

[0:12:23] Voice 10: that way you encourage people to actually live in higher-equity, efficient houses, with

[0:12:29] Voice 10: this out-of-the-box disability.

[0:12:31] Voice 10: I'm just posing that as an option.

[0:12:34] Voice 10: Do

[0:12:37] Voice 11: you have anything

[0:12:38] Voice 5: to say on that?

[0:12:39] Voice 5: No, that's something the LTC can consider, absolutely.

[0:12:47] Voice 9: Anybody else?

[0:12:48] Voice 10: Yes, I don't understand why it's gone to the inside. I know what Kip just described for us, but we have square footage with, you know, the amount that's saved in walls, even if it's a three foot wall, it's not going to be significant.

[0:13:07] Voice 10: I don't think anyone's going to ever exceed that for the lot coverage.

[0:13:12] Voice 10: So it just seems to be a very complex.

[0:13:14] Voice 10: Anybody tried to measure the inside of their house?

[0:13:16] Voice 10: So now we've got to have some bureaucrat coming in and measuring our house for us on the inside?

[0:13:22] Voice 10: It makes no sense.

[0:13:23] Voice 10: Sorry.

[0:13:24] Voice 10: It should go back to the outside, which is lot coverage, which is what we're all concerned about is maintaining green space.

[0:13:33] Voice 10: So we should be measuring the maximum size of the dwelling from the foundation, not from inside, in my opinion.

[0:13:44] Voice 10: Thank you.

[0:13:45] Voice 10: Thank

[0:13:46] Voice 6: you. I think that measuring on the inside is fantastic.

[0:13:51] Voice 6: And the natural builder, straw bale buildings, earthen buildings, they have very thick walls.

[0:13:57] Voice 11: And I really appreciate that. So on the inside.

[0:14:03] Voice 11: I'm

[0:14:03] Trustee Evans: just going to ask him if you've got some insight here like I'm just thinking um other

[0:14:11] Trustee Evans: um government like the BCSF want to grab it do they measure from the inside or the outside

[0:14:16] Trustee Evans: yeah

[0:14:17] Voice 5: the most important one would be the CRD because they issue the building permits

[0:14:21] Voice 5: um I can't quite remember what their calculation is I know I provide information in a stock report

[0:14:27] Voice 5: so I can look into that you want to go to the next question I can sort of back

[0:14:34] Voice 10: we just went through that

[0:14:35] Voice 10: with the CRD

[0:14:36] Voice 10: and we ended up

[0:14:39] Voice 10: with a new bylaw to measure from the inside

[0:14:41] Voice 10: through the CRD as well

[0:14:43] Voice 10: so they follow the rule

[0:14:45] Trustee Evans: of the inside

[0:14:46] Trustee Evans: okay great thank you

[0:14:48] Trustee Evans: but then that would actually make life simpler and easier

[0:14:51] Trustee Evans: so you don't have to do two sets of measurements

[0:14:53] Trustee Evans: you just have to do one

[0:14:55] Trustee Evans: because it'd be harder to try and comply with

[0:14:58] Trustee Evans: measuring from the outside and complying with that

[0:15:00] Trustee Evans: and then measuring from the inside and complying with that

[0:15:03] Voice 10: If we have to keep in mind, if we change where we measure from, outside or inside, then the square footage does make quite a difference on all sides of your building.

[0:15:16] Voice 10: So if we went from the inside measurement to the outside measurement but left the square footage the same, we would be making a further restriction on house size.

[0:15:29] Voice 10: just be aware of that am i correct that's absolutely correct so

[0:15:37] Voice 2: anybody else on

[0:15:38] Voice 2: the definitions end of things

[0:15:40] Voice 10: did that make sense what i said or i saw some sort of

[0:15:45] Voice 10: questioning shaking on headset i guess i i didn't quite understand it but um

[0:15:54] Voice 10: i think in terms of house square footage you know we're saying we don't want to measure that yet

[0:15:59] Voice 10: somebody that attaches a double garage now with the new bylaw we're going to add that square

[0:16:06] Voice 10: footage i'm

[0:16:07] Trustee Evans: just going to get the conversation in the back can be quiet because we can't hear

[0:16:10] Trustee Evans: what people are saying thank you so

[0:16:14] Voice 10: i you know i guess we'd have to run the numbers here but i

[0:16:17] Voice 10: don't understand um i guess tracy could answer this do you approach when you're building a house

[0:16:24] Voice 10: Do you approach the maximum square footage on a house every time with your walls?

[0:16:32] Trustee Evans: I'm trying to interject again.

[0:16:35] Voice 10: Okay, well, I'm trying to understand.

[0:16:37] Trustee Evans: I understand.

[0:16:38] Trustee Evans: So this then becomes a

[0:16:39] Trustee Evans: community discussion versus...

[0:16:43] Trustee Evans: I'm sorry.

[0:16:44] Trustee Evans: Yeah.

[0:16:46] Voice 2: Through the chair.

[0:16:48] Voice 2: Yes.

[0:16:48] Trustee Evans: That should

[0:16:49] Voice 2: go.

[0:16:50] Voice 2: Well,

[0:16:52] Voice 11: if someone's building a straw bale house and the walls are close to 20 inches wide,

[0:17:01] Voice 11: if they wanted to build a 600 square foot cottage that was a straw bale house,

[0:17:07] Voice 11: the 20 inches, call it two feet on each side, they'd lose four feet of square foot.

[0:17:16] Voice 11: which actually, wouldn't it be eight feet altogether?

[0:17:22] Voice 11: You know, they'd lose the amount of square footage

[0:17:25] Voice 11: if it was measured from the outside.

[0:17:27] Voice 11: So they'd have a much smaller living, not much,

[0:17:31] Voice 11: but you know, quite a bit of a smaller living space

[0:17:35] Voice 11: if it was measured from the outside.

[0:17:40] Voice 9: Thank you.

[0:17:42] Voice 9: Paul Petrie, South Pendder.

[0:17:44] Voice 10: This is an interesting discussion

[0:17:46] Voice 10: because it really bears on the allowable square footage of a dwelling and I'm

[0:17:55] taking from this that the

[0:17:56] Voice 10: change to the inner wall allows for larger or more

[0:18:02] Voice 10: square footage for a dwelling with this way than before. What I would be

[0:18:07] interested in is what Dorothy said rather than numbers. I would actually like to see

[0:18:11] what the difference is because it, in fact, increased the square footage of what previously

[0:18:20] had been by this change.

[0:18:22] Voice 10: So I'm not sure, I've just been through an exercise where I used an internet square footage

[0:18:30] citation about a building and it was from the rooms, it excluded the walls, but I took

[0:18:39] the inner thing because of this definition but obviously there's

[0:18:42] Voice 10: other complicating factors so

[0:18:45] Voice 10: can't imagine our maybe staff could actually just show what the difference is between those

[0:18:51] Voice 10: before we entertain the decision to to go back or to keep stay with us thank you and actually

[0:18:57] Trustee Evans: at this point i'm going to say this particular change is more relevant to the health size so

[0:19:04] Trustee Evans: we should maybe end this yeah and and

[0:19:06] Trustee Evans: come back to this during the health size discussion which will

[0:19:09] Trustee Evans: be at the next community information meeting yeah

[0:19:13] Voice 10: so i i agree with that but can i make just one

[0:19:15] Voice 10: clarifying comment to that to run the numbers would depend on the size the thickness of the

[0:19:20] Voice 10: wall so we can't run the numbers because it could be a straw bale building or it could be a two by

[0:19:24] Voice 10: six wall right so

[0:19:27] Trustee Evans: it could be to today's to today's um r-rated standards yeah

[0:19:31] Voice 10: so we can't

[0:19:31] Voice 10: there's nothing to which do we pick to run the numbers on but we should think about this I guess

[0:19:39] Voice 10: till we revisit it

[0:19:40] Voice 9: when

[0:19:41] Voice 10: we talk about health size yeah but yeah I just wanted to bring that up that

[0:19:46] Voice 10: it does have a bearing on it so we don't forget that well

[0:19:49] Voice 5: actually we can ask Kim if it's feasible

[0:19:52] Voice 5: it would be outside of my scope of expertise I would have to contact a builder to see if they

[0:19:59] Voice 5: could help me with that calculation if anybody's in the community that's the expertise that may

[0:20:03] Voice 5: be willing to do it um but it would be i'm not sure if i would have the proper programming

[0:20:10] Voice 5: to do something like that so

[0:20:17] Voice 9: i've

[0:20:17] Voice 10: been confused because i could you said set the house it's a simple excel experiment

[0:20:25] Voice 10: experiment because it's not product science so i'm happy to run before you can pick it up

[0:20:32] Voice 8: perfect thank

[0:20:33] Voice 2: you okay so anybody else on the definitions or do you want to move on

[0:20:40] Voice 2: all right so let's talk okay

[0:20:45] Trustee Evans: so i'm on page 16 i'm poking myself in the eye which is super helpful

[0:20:50] Trustee Evans: for reading

[0:20:50] Voice 9: um

[0:20:51] Trustee Evans: i'm not sure what the red line change is related to because we don't have a

[0:20:59] Trustee Evans: topic maybe you can help me

[0:21:00] Voice 5: there on the printout oh yeah that was related so that was related to

[0:21:06] Voice 5: i believe the setbacks of the natural boundary and the sea so that's why it was for the next cim

[0:21:12] Voice 5: and then the numbers are just renumbering that section so we'd be at 3.41 which is the high

[0:21:19] Voice 5: regulations if you'd like me to this piece into that and i did make a quick note myself so i'm

[0:21:27] Voice 5: going to read it out here um the previous ltc amended the calculation of maximum floor area

[0:21:35] Voice 5: or sorry amended the calculation of maximum height for a dwelling or a cottage previously

[0:21:41] Voice 5: Obviously, the calculation of height was the average height of a building or a cottage on four sides.

[0:21:50] Voice 5: So if the cottage or house was built on a cliff, you would have a higher height on one edge or one side, a shorter height on the other.

[0:22:00] Voice 5: But it would be the calculation on the floor. So you get the average.

[0:22:03] Voice 5: but what has happened is the previous LTC made amendments by striking out or pardon me by adding

[0:22:12] Voice 5: in that at no point may a dwelling or cottage exceed 9.2 meters in height so effectively what's

[0:22:20] Voice 5: that what's done is for those houses that are most likely built on a cliff or a slope we'll have to

[0:22:26] Voice 5: apply for a variance because one side of the building will exceed that 9.2 meters in height

[0:22:34] Voice 5: and i can't speak for the previous ltc but uh perhaps they decided to add that additional

[0:22:41] Voice 5: regulation in um in order to um create or i don't want to say force but um so those property owners

[0:22:50] Voice 5: they have to apply for a variance permit and then that very experiment requires notification

[0:22:54] Voice 5: to neighbours and it would allow them, neighbours and the LTC, to comment on the construction

[0:23:00] Voice 5: of that house.

[0:23:01] Voice 5: I

[0:23:07] Voice 2: think the trustee, Sue.

[0:23:09] Trustee Evans: Yeah, I remember listening in to the third meeting when this took place.

[0:23:17] Trustee Evans: I think first of all, we do need to have a conversation around this.

[0:23:20] Trustee Evans: I personally think that this is restrictive.

[0:23:25] Trustee Evans: restrictive um and i would personally this is just me personally speaking everyone else has

[0:23:34] Trustee Evans: their own opinion which i'm going to listen to i would be more comfortable with the average height

[0:23:40] Trustee Evans: versus one particular side just given the nature of the island and the slopes that are

[0:23:50] Trustee Evans: are even if they don't look very steep they are steep so uh that's like i said that's that's my

[0:23:56] Trustee Evans: personal opinion um but i'm here to listen to you thank you

[0:24:01] Voice 2: so does anybody have any

[0:24:05] Voice 2: insight into this issue just a question

[0:24:13] Voice 7: so the 9.2 is that from like if you're on a cliff and there's like a stilt or something

[0:24:20] Voice 7: holding up a corner is that included in the height it's

[0:24:25] Trustee Evans: from the lowest point of the building to the

[0:24:26] Trustee Evans: highest point from the building to the footing from the footing

[0:24:31] Voice 10: i i agree i think it should go

[0:24:36] Voice 10: back but i think there's also uh from that last change there's quite a bit missed in other kind

[0:24:43] Voice 10: of ancillary like the height definition um

[0:24:49] Voice 10: page six i need to in the under the definition of usable site area i think that number needs

[0:24:57] Voice 10: to be changed i don't think it was ever changed before so and then the height graphic

[0:25:04] Voice 10: i think we need to to look at that definition that was never changed to reflect this fixed

[0:25:11] Voice 10: 30 foot height so I think there's some issues there so the simple thing would be to do is put

[0:25:17] Voice 10: it back the way it was which again eliminates somehow that it will be rendered non-conforming

[0:25:28] Voice 10: with this new restriction when you say change it back you're talking well probably about one one

[0:25:57] Voice 10: Gordy, are you saying that the way that it's defined how you are to calculate the height is that what you're talking about?

[0:26:04] Voice 10: Yes. I'm actually talking kind of two ways.

[0:26:07] Voice 10: things here. Some of the definitions are wrong with the 112 adoption, I believe anyway, and

[0:26:16] Voice 10: the usable site area there. And I guess I could read it so it would make it clear.

[0:26:22] Voice 10: What page are you on?

[0:26:24] Voice 10: Well, unfortunately, I didn't copy so I don't have the...

[0:26:28] Voice 10: You're

[0:26:29] Voice 1: looking at a

[0:26:29] Voice 10: diagram. It was page six at the top of the page, I believe.

[0:26:35] Voice 10: I have

[0:26:36] Voice 10: my own copy so I don't I can't I'm just telling everybody else oh I'm sorry I could

[0:26:41] Voice 10: certainly provide it for you

[0:26:47] Voice 11: so we don't have that we just have that

[0:26:52] Voice 11: that's

[0:26:53] Voice 9: what I'm

[0:26:54] Trustee Evans: saying use one of

[0:26:56] Voice 11: these so that everyone should be

[0:27:10] Voice 9: I'm

[0:27:10] Voice 10: looking at the fall and the record marks. So there is a definition in there of how to

[0:27:17] Voice 10: calculate the height. And I think that's what we're addressing. So you can see it.

[0:27:23] Voice 10: but so

[0:27:24] Voice 2: gentlemen agreed then gentlemen all

[0:27:27] Voice 10: agree yeah what is the actual purpose of this

[0:27:33] Voice 7: clause is it to like what for this calculation what's what's the intent behind it i think

[0:27:42] Voice 2: planet's doctor probably touched on where what the intent was is basically if things are going to

[0:27:47] Voice 2: go high is to to basically force it into a variance so no no um

[0:27:53] Voice 7: is the purpose to

[0:27:55] Voice 7: to restrict the visual eyesore or something like that?

[0:27:59] Voice 7: That

[0:28:00] Voice 5: was part of the discussion as well.

[0:28:02] Voice 5: There was a worry that when you're looking at a dwelling from the sea

[0:28:07] Voice 5: or from the road, especially if you're looking at a house

[0:28:10] Voice 5: from that side that's quite steep, it looks ginormous,

[0:28:13] Voice 5: when in reality, it's perhaps not.

[0:28:16] Voice 5: So that was a part of the discussion that we had with the previous LTC.

[0:28:22] Voice 4: So sorry, but what really has changed?

[0:28:25] Voice 4: so at some point the group I'm assuming felt that those changes were needed uh now people feel

[0:28:33] Voice 4: they were wrong and we're going back oh what's the whole thing here

[0:28:36] Trustee Evans: I'm just going to answer that so

[0:28:38] Trustee Evans: um during the previous term we all came out here and we opposed what was happening but it went

[0:28:45] Trustee Evans: through anyway

[0:28:46] Voice 9: so

[0:28:47] Trustee Evans: they lost the election so we're here and we're looking at it again to see what

[0:28:52] Trustee Evans: what what we're all comfortable with and through this process what what what we what we realize

[0:29:00] Trustee Evans: is that where we were people were unhappy with it where we are people are unhappy with it

[0:29:07] Trustee Evans: what we're trying to do is to find something that is going to work that everyone can live with

[0:29:14] Trustee Evans: okay so that's the purpose of why we're looking at everything that was changed making sure that

[0:29:20] Trustee Evans: everyone is okay with it we don't have to be um fully rah rah rah i couldn't do any better than

[0:29:29] Trustee Evans: that but also we don't want people on the other side going i just i simply can't live with this

[0:29:34] Trustee Evans: so we're trying to find something where everyone can come together and say you know what

[0:29:38] Trustee Evans: i can live with that so

[0:29:41] Voice 10: we just can't live back so i think the former bylaws uh commendable

[0:29:46] Voice 10: gain the flexibility I agree with Trustee Yellen's that it should revert to its previous steps

[0:29:52] Voice 10: thank you so gentlemen thank you um thank you uh just just a point of clarification

[0:30:01] Voice 10: we were all opposed to it that's not quite the case though people speaking in favor of it so

[0:30:07] Voice 10: i'd just like to say i was one of the people who spoke in favor of this because of exactly the

[0:30:13] Voice 10: point that plan of stock bill mentioned that it gives adjacent property owners some say if there

[0:30:19] Voice 10: is blockage of their view and that may have may come up in any certain circumstances but at least

[0:30:28] Voice 10: there's an opportunity for the adjacent property owners to express a view to be considered by

[0:30:35] Voice 10: the trustees. The second thing to say is that I think a variance is a perfectly

[0:30:46] Voice 10: good planning tool to use to take care of that issue. I also agree with Gordy that if there

[0:30:53] Voice 10: are problems with this definition in light of other provisions in the bylaw, that should be

[0:30:59] Voice 10: looked at so uh but i do support this thank you i

[0:31:04] Voice 6: just wanted two things for karen to say is that

[0:31:08] Voice 6: i attended all the meetings when we were going with the previous trustees and it really wasn't

[0:31:14] Voice 6: until the very end when it kind of came in about the building height uh the water towers and a few

[0:31:21] Voice 6: other things like that wasn't really part of our discussions um at all i don't think they were

[0:31:26] Voice 6: fleshed out i didn't understand them i went to all the meetings because we were really focused on

[0:31:33] Voice 6: house signs and setbacks those were the thorny issues that continued so then it was kind of

[0:31:39] Voice 6: thrown in the other thing i wanted to say is about you know kim is talking about you know

[0:31:44] Voice 6: there's a variance application and i don't think that that's always the solution we'll apply for

[0:31:50] Voice 6: variants. Get in variants. And I don't think bylaws should be, that's the remedy. You should

[0:31:58] Voice 6: have good bylaws. You should have strong bylaws that are reasonable. And it's really quite

[0:32:03] Voice 6: extraordinary if you need to have a variance. But that seems to be the solution. Get a variance or

[0:32:10] Voice 6: try to get one. And I don't agree with that at all. You have to have really good, strong,

[0:32:15] Voice 6: healthy bylaws.

[0:32:17] Voice 2: Thank you. So anybody else on

[0:32:21] Voice 7: this topic? Just assuming you go for a variance

[0:32:28] Voice 7: and you get denied, then what happens?

[0:32:31] Voice 11: You have

[0:32:33] Voice 7: to tear down the structure.

[0:32:35] Voice 7: Thank

[0:32:36] Voice 5: you. So again, the applicant applies for a development variance permit, which goes to the

[0:32:42] Voice 5: LTC for a decision. If that's denied, there is an opportunity to apply to the Board of

[0:32:49] Voice 5: Variants, but the Board of Variants deals with minor variances and variances that are

[0:32:55] Voice 5: considered a hardship. So the variance that the applicant may be requesting may or may

[0:33:04] Voice 5: not fit that parameter. So if the DVP is not approved, then either you comply with the

[0:33:12] Voice 5: bylaw or you can move forward with trying to um apply for a bov but ultimately

[0:33:17] Voice 7: if it's everything

[0:33:18] Voice 7: is denied and then the structure has to be removed um

[0:33:22] Voice 5: if it's already constructed yes

[0:33:26] Voice 5: or a portion of that must be removed to comply with the bylaw

[0:33:36] Trustee Evans: um i just wanted to if this is really for new

[0:33:40] Trustee Evans: build so right this is not meant as

[0:33:44] Voice 10: an application part way through a build to apply for a variance

[0:33:48] Voice 10: this is you have gone to an architect you've come up with your plan and the plan actually ends up

[0:33:55] Voice 10: being more than what the bylaw permits then

[0:34:00] Voice 6: you would apply for a variance right that's correct

[0:34:02] Voice 6: it's not that the structure is already there and now we have to apply for a variance or it's going

[0:34:07] Voice 6: going to be torn down through

[0:34:09] Voice 5: the chair if i may so yes this actually applies this new um regulation

[0:34:14] Voice 5: applies to buildings that are constructed right now as well so by this new regulation it may

[0:34:21] Voice 5: actually create legal non-conforming siding for some houses that at one point exceed 9.2 meters

[0:34:30] Voice 5: height so

[0:34:33] Voice 2: but so to be clear you'd be legally non-conforming nobody's coming after you

[0:34:37] Voice 2: no no

[0:34:38] Voice 2: but if your house burns down or something you may not be able to rebuild unless you apply

[0:34:44] Voice 5: for a variance yeah um

[0:34:48] Voice 2: sure over there when you have a question um

[0:34:51] Voice 10: wasn't there um

[0:34:53] Voice 10: it's just not falling to the category of the people performing uh definitions

[0:35:00] Voice 9: no

[0:35:01] Trustee Evans: no there was there was a clause put under the house size that clause is not here this does not

[0:35:07] Trustee Evans: your house size your house height does not have that cause yeah so you so you are they will not

[0:35:12] Trustee Evans: be forming that i mean perhaps

[0:35:14] Voice 9: that could be included i'm

[0:35:17] Trustee Evans: yes i think we should just have

[0:35:18] Trustee Evans: a conversation yeah that's what's one option so have

[0:35:21] Trustee Evans: a conversation as to either that course goes

[0:35:23] Trustee Evans: in or it reverts back to what it was before like so it's it's 30 feet meet from that average height

[0:35:29] Trustee Evans: versus the lowest point yeah

[0:35:31] Voice 10: i like the idea personally of um the neighbors having a

[0:35:34] Voice 10: opportunity this is a very varied landscape

[0:35:37] Voice 9: and

[0:35:38] Voice 10: it's always surprising when someone builds something

[0:35:41] Voice 10: that you didn't expect to ever be there but that it gives you as a neighbor an opportunity to speak

[0:35:47] Voice 10: to it if it's going to impact you you know perhaps uh as far as the variances go maybe they should be

[0:35:55] Voice 10: streamlined and made cheaper it's less expensive but just for us just to be able to give somebody

[0:36:01] Voice 10: the opportunity to speak to it as easily as possible yeah

[0:36:06] Voice 8: certainly

[0:36:08] Voice 10: we might consider that um neighborly view that's just been cited

[0:36:18] Voice 10: as a bylaw unto itself just because height may be impinging your sight line

[0:36:25] Voice 10: um does not or does perhaps present an issue but why not give the neighbors the opportunity

[0:36:35] Voice 10: to comment regardless of the site regardless of the sight lines regardless of the height

[0:36:42] Voice 10: the bylaw really should allow neighbors for our

[0:36:44] Voice 9: comment on virtually all aspects of the building

[0:36:46] Voice 9: I have a hope that it will be found.

[0:36:56] Voice 10: So, any reviews, sir?

[0:36:58] Voice 10: Well, I think Christina just mentioned the fact that there isn't the exemption clause protection for the over-height.

[0:37:08] Voice 10: And my numbers say that there's 21 three-story dwellings in all basements plus two stories,

[0:37:16] Voice 10: which you know is a fair number 10 of the homes on south pender could fall into that category so

[0:37:25] Voice 10: the simple ways to put it back which makes it the same as everybody else again remember keeping in

[0:37:33] Voice 10: mind 80 of the home properties are already developed so we're talking 20 here of potential

[0:37:40] Voice 10: development plus what I will you know what could happen in the future but uh there's a fair number

[0:37:47] Voice 10: of homes that could be rendered legal not conforming with the file with the bylaw the way

[0:37:53] Voice 10: it's written right now and there's no exemption thank you so I'm I'm easily confused um I thought

[0:38:03] Voice 10: we talked about cottages now we're certainly talking about houses yes the thing is talking

[0:38:10] Voice 10: about this week let's call it a time no

[0:38:14] Trustee Evans: it's a dwelling or a cottage so a house or a cottage

[0:38:18] Trustee Evans: so even a

[0:38:19] Voice 10: house can correct

[0:38:20] Trustee Evans: okay

[0:38:21] Voice 10: and why are

[0:38:23] Voice 10: we by by why are we catering this people

[0:38:26] Voice 10: building a steep slope i suggest that if you're on a steep slope the back wall might not be

[0:38:36] Voice 10: and

[0:38:37] Trustee Evans: nobody knows that if it's so usually yeah so i think the problem here is if you're on a steep

[0:38:42] Trustee Evans: slope and you walk in and you've got a steep slope and you've got you're going to wind up with a

[0:38:47] Trustee Evans: basement out and a roof you might be you you're going to have to go and get the variance because

[0:38:52] Trustee Evans: you're going to be too high so then you're being penalized for your your property landscape yeah

[0:39:01] Trustee Evans: some people bought 30 years ago yeah

[0:39:05] Voice 9: yeah i mean sure but still i i don't see me

[0:39:11] Voice 10: i don't i don't

[0:39:12] Voice 10: really agree i think it would build on the theme so we shouldn't encourage that i think

[0:39:17] Voice 10: i

[0:39:17] Voice 9: think

[0:39:24] Trustee Evans: what we're hearing though from the floor as well is that now because of this bible there's

[0:39:31] Trustee Evans: going to be a lot of properties made legal non-conformant there is no cost to protect those

[0:39:35] Trustee Evans: properties and for those that are going to be built in the future or places that just have

[0:39:41] Trustee Evans: cottages now that may wind up with the dwelling on it later on will have to build shorter or may

[0:39:46] Trustee Evans: not be able to build without getting a variance and if you can't get a variance you can't go

[0:39:50] Trustee Evans: forward so these are things that we have to think about as trustees are we prohibiting building

[0:39:57] Trustee Evans: Are we making building reasonable?

[0:40:03] Voice 10: Thank you, Paul Petrie.

[0:40:05] Voice 10: I share the concern that Gordy just mentioned that current by-law renders some properties

[0:40:13] Voice 10: legally non-conforming.

[0:40:15] Voice 10: And there's questions about reconstruction of those buildings, and I think that the Global

[0:40:20] Voice 10: Government Act covers that off pretty well.

[0:40:23] Voice 10: But this is what I would say, and I would support Ron Henshaw's suggestion that we include

[0:40:29] the new provision or the provision that applies to dwellings to make all existing

[0:40:37] Voice 10: properties

[0:40:38] Voice 10: legally conformant that's what the bylaws when we have 5.5 10 does for agricultural buildings it's

[0:40:49] a simple step to add that clause in here

[0:40:53] Voice 10: to make all existing buildings on south end legally

[0:40:56] Voice 10: legally conforming and that does not cause the concern that may otherwise exist that would

[0:41:03] Voice 10: eliminate that problem and it would also protect the ability for neighbors to have a say

[0:41:09] Voice 10: if a house was built next to them that blocked their view or for some other reason raised

[0:41:15] objections that doesn't prevent the owner from succeeding with the variance it just simply gives

[0:41:22] Voice 10: an opportunity for their view will be expressed and considered by the trustees

[0:41:31] Voice 9: anybody open i'm just saying here here thank you yes anybody else

[0:41:38] Voice 9: we have

[0:41:44] Voice 5: on my list um shipping containers which and that is on page what it says it's number 17.

[0:41:52] Voice 5: this is the document that has the red lines so on page 17 there um has been a new actually two

[0:42:02] Voice 5: new sections added to the general regulations and these are in regards to shipping containers

[0:42:09] Voice 5: and my understanding was the reason for the previous ltc to add regulations regarding

[0:42:16] Voice 5: shipping containers was to ensure there would be a proliferation of shipping containers on

[0:42:22] Voice 5: some properties. So what this new regulation states is, if you have a property that is less

[0:42:30] Voice 5: than two acres with area, you're permitted to have one shipping container on your property.

[0:42:36] Voice 5: If you have a property between two to three acres, you're permitted to site two shipping

[0:42:43] Voice 5: containers and if the property is greater than three acres you get your permitted three shipping

[0:42:49] Voice 5: containers there is an added regulation there that states that shipping containers must also

[0:42:55] Voice 5: be screened from neighboring lots roads or the sea by use of the landscaping screening regulations

[0:43:04] Voice 5: that are found in section 3.9 so the intention is if you do place a shipping container on your

[0:43:09] Voice 5: property put up a nice cedar landscaping to you know just hide it from your neighbors or

[0:43:17] Voice 5: from those their travel fiber or ocean i'm not sure if the community has seen a proliferation

[0:43:24] Voice 5: of shipping containers um but i think the ltc was trying to just take a step ahead and prepare

[0:43:31] Voice 11: parents thank you so

[0:43:35] Trustee Evans: i'm just going to say for myself i'm i like this um these uh these

[0:43:43] Trustee Evans: bylaws being added in here i think that they're i think that they're good

[0:43:55] Voice 5: absolutely yeah do the same as an accessory structure so they would have to meet setbacks

[0:43:59] Voice 5: and also height requirements.

[0:44:02] Voice 10: Is the landscaping screening superfluous then?

[0:44:06] Voice 5: Pardon me?

[0:44:06] Voice 5: Is

[0:44:07] Voice 10: landscaping screening superfluous then?

[0:44:10] Voice 10: You're already set back, whatever it is,

[0:44:12] Voice 10: 50 feet from the water, 25 feet from the side.

[0:44:16] Voice 10: What is the purpose of the landscape screening?

[0:44:20] Voice 5: I mean, there are some properties

[0:44:21] Voice 5: that may not have vegetation in place

[0:44:24] Voice 5: if they've already been cleared.

[0:44:25] Voice 5: So it's just to ensure that there is some type of...

[0:44:30] Voice 10: My guess, I wasn't part of the previous LPC, but my guess is that a shipping container

[0:44:37] Voice 10: is considered ugly, and a building is considered a building not ugly.

[0:44:41] Voice 10: So therefore, the additional screening was required.

[0:44:45] Voice 10: Gosh.

[0:44:46] Voice 10: So we have a gentleman in the back.

[0:44:49] Voice 10: Yeah, my situation is I've got two shipping containers, and I have one in 30 acres, but

[0:44:56] Voice 10: but I bought those containers seven years ago.

[0:45:01] Voice 10: So now I'm, and the reason I bought them

[0:45:04] Voice 10: was because I can't afford to build even more,

[0:45:07] Voice 10: so I still can't afford to build a wooden structure

[0:45:10] Voice 10: which I would prefer if I had the money.

[0:45:14] Voice 10: So I've got them full of my belongings.

[0:45:19] Voice 10: So my concern is are we grandfathered

[0:45:22] Voice 10: in as far as having to uh it's too small an anchorage because it's going to be a major

[0:45:29] Voice 10: not just inconvenience but financial stress for me if i'm just told you got to take one of those

[0:45:35] Voice 10: off now and find something else or do something else we don't really care what you do but

[0:45:40] Voice 10: but it would be very very uncomfortable for me to have to remove one and then come up with money

[0:45:49] Voice 10: to actually build, say, a shed that was conforming.

[0:45:55] Voice 10: The other part of that, as I've thought about it over time,

[0:45:58] Voice 10: is because they're steel, all steel, for fire prevention

[0:46:03] Voice 10: wise, or fire issues, which is an increasing

[0:46:07] Voice 10: issue on all the gulf islands, I feel like, well, at least what

[0:46:12] Voice 10: I've got in there is semi-protected.

[0:46:14] Voice 10: If it doesn't, it'll cook.

[0:46:16] Voice 10: But it won't effectively burn a lot.

[0:46:21] Voice 10: If there happens to be, God forbid, there ever was a fire, you know, on south or north, better.

[0:46:27] Voice 10: So those are two concerns I have.

[0:46:29] Voice 10: I just want some clarification, so I read the rules.

[0:46:33] Voice 10: It doesn't say anything about grandfathering for any of that.

[0:46:37] Voice 10: It sounds like there's grandfathering if you already have a non-conforming house building, whatever, which is absolutely fair as well.

[0:46:47] Voice 10: I've got more opinions about that, but I won't elaborate on that right now.

[0:46:51] Voice 10: So I'm concerned. This is one thing I don't plan on a proliferation of more shipping containers.

[0:46:59] Voice 10: I don't have more room and I don't want any more.

[0:47:01] Voice 10: But I'd like to keep what I've got. I've painted them green, dark green, to hopefully blend in.

[0:47:09] Voice 10: If I have to put up some kind of screening because I'm on a there's a fire access road right beside the property.

[0:47:17] Voice 10: So people coming up or down can see the shipping containers.

[0:47:20] Voice 10: is i don't think they're ugly but they're visually appealing so so so there's no grandfathering

[0:47:27] Voice 10: necessary unless we all talk together and decide that we want to remove this part of this

[0:47:34] Voice 10: the uh the bylaw so the way it's written right now you're allowed if as long as you're outside

[0:47:41] Voice 10: i'm

[0:47:41] Trustee Evans: going to interrupt that's not right what are you saying it's not right okay

[0:47:48] Voice 5: Yes, so the term you'd want to use is you have legal non-conforming status, and that's provided through the Local Government Act.

[0:48:00] Voice 5: So yes, the siting of the two shipping containers, yes, that's perfectly okay.

[0:48:06] Voice 5: Because the Local Government Act says, yes, if you complied with the bylaw when they were placed, which you did, the bylaw has now changed.

[0:48:13] Voice 5: so they're legally they were legally put there but now they're non-conforming so certainly okay

[0:48:20] Voice 10: all right as long as they don't it's not like if i get rid of one then i want to bring it back again

[0:48:24] Voice 10: absolutely yeah so yeah and

[0:48:27] Voice 5: if you have really nice neighbors maybe you can move them around

[0:48:30] Voice 5: without you know them knowing but yeah the

[0:48:33] Voice 10: last part may be to do with the camouflage

[0:48:36] Voice 10: what do you call it um

[0:48:38] Voice 5: screaming yeah

[0:48:40] Voice 5: you don't have to comply with that either because they

[0:48:42] Voice 5: would place on the property before that regulation okay

[0:48:46] Voice 10: the intent is not i don't want to send my

[0:48:48] Voice 10: neighbors anywhere there's a lot of people walk up and down that road there's another so i it's

[0:48:55] Voice 10: not about offending them because that's what i can afford that's that's what i did and yeah

[0:49:01] Voice 10: absolutely they

[0:49:02] Voice 10: can turn into a two-car garage and i'll keep doing that but it's not happening

[0:49:11] Voice 10: yeah

[0:49:12] Voice 6: i don't know really anything about the shipping containers but i noticed that there's

[0:49:17] Voice 6: no like purpose for them are they meant to be for storage or can people put animals in them

[0:49:22] Voice 6: or people live in them or what and is it added to your um size of your like your house your garage

[0:49:32] Voice 6: and the lot of coverage is that part of your lot coverage through

[0:49:37] Voice 5: the chair if i may um so a

[0:49:41] Voice 5: shipping container is considered an accessory structure or accessory building perhaps if it

[0:49:47] Voice 5: needs a definition of a building so that means a shipping container must comply it would add to

[0:49:53] Voice 5: your lot coverage um they're not attached to a house so it would have nothing to do with the

[0:49:58] Voice 5: maximum floor area of your dwelling but they would have to abide by the hiding and citing

[0:50:03] Voice 5: guidelines as well you need to make sure that they are properly set back from the property line

[0:50:09] Voice 5: um also if there's a development permit area on your property you want to ensure by placing that

[0:50:15] Voice 5: in there it would trigger the requirement potentially the development permit um the

[0:50:20] Voice 5: ltc or the land use bylaw does not regulate the use of that shipping container my understanding

[0:50:25] Voice 5: that certainly they're great, they're less expensive than constructing a, you know,

[0:50:32] Voice 5: accessory or a garage or whatnot, from my understanding. And like a fellow mentioned,

[0:50:39] Voice 5: they're also seen as destructive, if you will. So yeah, we don't regulate the use of them.

[0:50:44] Voice 5: They're considered an accessory structure or a building.

[0:50:48] Voice 5: this is as long as

[0:50:50] Voice 2: we've got a few different hands going around

[0:50:54] Voice 2: yeah so but i'll just i will ask a

[0:50:57] Voice 2: question because i'm a chair um some there are people who've built homes out of shipping

[0:51:03] Voice 2: containers so is that getting developed into that because if they go a shipping container home

[0:51:09] Voice 2: normally consists of five or six containers is that a totally different that's

[0:51:15] Voice 5: a good question

[0:51:15] Voice 5: we had not even wrapped our minds around that i do not want to

[0:51:19] Voice 5: answer that it's a very tricky

[0:51:21] Voice 5: question that's

[0:51:22] Voice 2: for use that's well yeah but the fact that we've identified shipping containers

[0:51:27] Voice 2: as an entity but if it says shipping accessory use yeah so gentlemen in the back and then we're

[0:51:35] Voice 2: coming over to this side yeah

[0:51:36] Voice 10: i'm just curious uh i live on a farm and uh shipping containers

[0:51:41] Voice 10: this is a cheap way of creating space uh and you have three acres does that mean i can only have

[0:51:47] Voice 10: three or or if i follow the following the projection here in that period well i can ask

[0:51:54] Voice 2: as a farmer do they have a little bit more variance on that

[0:52:06] Voice 5: i i can't answer that question i'm going to have to look at the

[0:52:09] Voice 5: that the ALC regulations.

[0:52:12] Voice 5: I could not answer that on top of it.

[0:52:14] Voice 5: I don't think we can start that.

[0:52:15] Voice 2: Answer the question.

[0:52:17] Voice 2: Yes,

[0:52:17] Voice 5: answer the question.

[0:52:18] Voice 2: So ask, we'll do some research and get back to you.

[0:52:21] Voice 2: You too, and this is Ida.

[0:52:23] Voice 11: I am sorry if I,

[0:52:26] Voice 11: because I might be ignorant in this,

[0:52:28] Voice 11: but is the red letters that we are discussing

[0:52:33] Voice 11: in this number six shipping containers,

[0:52:36] Voice 11: was there anything about shipping containers

[0:52:38] Voice 11: containers before this was inserted okay well I vote to go back to nothing about shipping containers

[0:52:45] Voice 11: it shouldn't be our business I second people thank you

[0:52:49] Voice 9: okay did

[0:52:50] Voice 11: you did you want to understand

[0:52:54] Voice 9: so

[0:52:54] Voice 10: do you need a permit to place a shipping container on your property because I know that

[0:53:01] Voice 10: that people on situations on north pender where people wanted to install a crd had something just

[0:53:09] Voice 10: to take about how they were installed by putting them on not a foundation but on concrete yeah

[0:53:16] Voice 10: bigger than their square feet yeah so through

[0:53:20] Voice 5: the chair yeah I can answer that I'm not sure I haven't

[0:53:23] Voice 5: Chris Watson recently about shipping containers so it'd be a really good question for him

[0:53:38] Voice 2: anybody else on

[0:53:40] Voice 10: the shipping container top i've got some questions can can the containers be

[0:53:44] Voice 10: stacked as

[0:53:47] Trustee Evans: long as they're under

[0:53:47] Voice 10: 38 and if they're stacked then does both square footages count

[0:53:52] Voice 10: against your lot coverage and through

[0:53:58] Voice 5: the chair the the log coverage is from a kind of like a

[0:54:01] Voice 5: vertical yes a bird view so you're looking down so that would have if you're stacking two on top

[0:54:06] Voice 5: of each other you'd just be looking at the one

[0:54:07] Voice 10: side by side yeah that's right

[0:54:10] Voice 10: yeah okay and

[0:54:15] Voice 10: it is a permanent structure i guess it's an accessory is it an accessory bill it says

[0:54:22] Voice 10: accessory use but it doesn't say accessory building so is that a permanent structure

[0:54:29] Voice 10: is it there forever it's well it's not

[0:54:34] Trustee Evans: considered mobile it would be considered permanent

[0:54:38] Trustee Evans: sorry it's

[0:54:39] Trustee Evans: not considered mobile it would be considered permanent okay

[0:54:46] Voice 9: yeah

[0:54:47] Voice 10: sorry just on on this permanent it was identified as a specific

[0:54:54] Voice 10: specific recognized and permitted use and it's a spectrum because you know then then there's

[0:55:02] Voice 10: the issue of getting a building permit and I certainly hope we don't but you know I mean

[0:55:10] Voice 10: that I think Tracy's point about giving you shouldn't be identifying it as a permitted

[0:55:17] Voice 10: in and use might be might be better off other than the fact that you don't want next door to you

[0:55:26] Voice 10: so

[0:55:27] Voice 7: this is a question about the previous answer they're stackable and they they don't add further

[0:55:34] Voice 7: square footage then could i not get 10 and like delta port and stack them higher and higher you

[0:55:41] Trustee Evans: you can only go to a maximum of 30 feet okay

[0:55:44] Voice 9: because

[0:55:45] Trustee Evans: there's a height uh restriction and

[0:55:48] Trustee Evans: that's on all dwellings and cottages and accessory buildings

[0:55:52] Voice 9: yeah sorry

[0:55:56] Voice 10: we have a shipping container

[0:56:00] Voice 10: on our property that was installed after the package of uh the amendments yeah and has also

[0:56:07] Voice 10: been subject to many visits by chris watson who's never mentioned anything about it so that might

[0:56:13] Voice 10: answer something i'm going

[0:56:14] Trustee Evans: to ask that the conversation conversations uh cease because

[0:56:17] Trustee Evans: we can't hear what the what the question is thank you yeah

[0:56:21] Voice 9: i understand i'm

[0:56:24] Voice 11: sorry i missed

[0:56:25] Voice 11: my computer so did

[0:56:26] Voice 11: i so can you say it again

[0:56:27] Voice 10: so so we had a shipping we have a shipping container

[0:56:30] Voice 10: that was installed after the passage of the amendments to the by-law and it is it has also

[0:56:39] Voice 10: we have an active burning building permit on the property right right there and it's been subject

[0:56:47] Voice 10: to many visits by chris watson who's never mentioned anything about it so that may answer

[0:56:53] Voice 10: some people's questions i guess it's hit or miss now because i know someone who was going to install

[0:57:03] Voice 10: uh one on their agricultural property and they after discussing with chris they decided not to

[0:57:09] Voice 10: because of the effort that it would take to meet his demands so i guess that's funny

[0:57:23] Voice 5: I also wanted to clarify, if these regulations were actually taken out of the Land Use By-law 114, what that would mean is it wouldn't, because it's taken out, it wouldn't mean that shipping containers are no longer permitted.

[0:57:38] Voice 5: What that means is there would be no regulation on the use.

[0:57:42] Voice 5: So then a property that has one acre could have 10 shipping containers as long as they comply with the setbacks, the siting, the height, and so forth.

[0:57:51] Voice 5: so i just want to make that um make it make that kind of clearance

[0:57:57] Voice 2: so i guess i can ask another main island question because um what we were advised

[0:58:03] Voice 2: was a shipping container was um considered to be an accessory building so so basically

[0:58:09] Voice 2: so where the land use bylaw talks about accessory buildings you're only allowed to have two

[0:58:13] Voice 2: accessory buildings one of them can be a shipping container so there is there through that lens it

[0:58:19] Voice 2: was those restricted to number of sensory buildings you're allowed in your zoning so

[0:58:24] Voice 2: obviously some questions about shipping containers anybody else are shipping containers

[0:58:29] Voice 2: i

[0:58:30] Voice 11: just wanted to clarify what you just said with that on main then it's it's actually

[0:58:38] Voice 9: authorized by a limit on accessory building so it's included that's an accessory building

[0:58:45] Voice 9: is what you're saying yes and

[0:58:47] Voice 11: you have a maximum of two accessory buildings well

[0:58:50] Voice 2: the zoning is fair

[0:58:52] Voice 2: so okay

[0:58:52] Voice 11: depending on the acreage

[0:58:54] Voice 2: yeah so because it was it was something that we had tried to

[0:58:59] Voice 2: identify on main island and um planning staff advice no don't worry about them because they're

[0:59:04] Voice 2: considered to be an accessory building so they're captured underneath that umbrella so you don't

[0:59:09] Voice 2: have to separately define them so

[0:59:11] Voice 5: is that something that we can do here as well uh through

[0:59:15] Voice 5: the chair the land use bylaw currently doesn't regulate the number of accessory buildings

[0:59:19] Voice 5: accessory buildings are regulated like i said setback height um lock urge and so forth so if

[0:59:25] Voice 5: the ltc wanted to consider um that regulation you could you could put a maximum number on

[0:59:33] Voice 5: unaccessory buildings on a lot

[0:59:34] Voice 9: so

[0:59:36] Voice 10: there's no residents you can't put i shouldn't paint around

[0:59:44] Voice 10: a lot it has to be an except for you and there's no

[0:59:48] Voice 10: housing there's no accessories

[0:59:50] Voice 2: yeah that i don't know where south tender is i know that's where it lands on north

[0:59:53] Voice 2: kind of pandering on me, but I'm self-pandering.

[0:59:57] Voice 2: It's

[0:59:57] Voice 5: choking me right now, I don't want to do it.

[1:00:01] Voice 5: other bylaws state that you can have an outbuilding and an outbuilding usually means

[1:00:05] Voice 5: a building before you have your dwelling and I can't quite remember what the

[1:00:09] Voice 5: bylaw 114 says so I'll just quickly double check that

[1:00:25] Voice 5: so section you won't have it in your in your papers here but for reference if you remember

[1:00:31] Voice 5: remember this number section 3.5 of three of the land use model states that one outbuilding may be

[1:00:39] Voice 5: constructed or placed on the lot prior to the construction of the dwelling and then it further

[1:00:46] Voice 5: states that the floor area must not exceed 750 square feet so that's I'm not sure if that meets

[1:00:54] Voice 5: what a standard on the shipping for shipping container is and I'm just going to check the

[1:01:00] Voice 5: definition of an outbuilding to see it's amazing how important definitions are they really are so

[1:01:09] Voice 5: an outbuilding is defined as means a building or structure that may be constructed or placed a lot

[1:01:17] Voice 5: prior to a principal dwelling and which may be used for ordinarily accessory to a principal

[1:01:23] Voice 5: residential use so yeah it sounds like you could place a shipping container as long as it's under

[1:01:28] Voice 5: that yeah prior to your dwelling maybe

[1:01:30] Voice 8: that's everything yeah

[1:01:32] Voice 5: which makes sense right if you're

[1:01:34] Voice 5: wanting to clear your lawn you need to store your tools and whatnot and make sure so sorry that's

[1:01:40] Voice 10: subject to a building permit impact of building permit or is that um

[1:01:45] Voice 5: there we don't have any

[1:01:46] Voice 5: further regulations on building on our birth building permit for that in this in this regulation

[1:01:51] Voice 5: um doesn't mention anything about an active building permit i

[1:01:56] Trustee Evans: think somewhere in the

[1:01:58] Trustee Evans: bios it says anything over 100 square feet requires that's what the bc building code yeah

[1:02:03] Trustee Evans: anybody

[1:02:04] Voice 11: else

[1:02:06] Voice 2: on shipping containers all right good feedback there

[1:02:10] Voice 2: i just got a lot of notes yeah

[1:02:12] Voice 5: that was really good on shipping

[1:02:14] Voice 5: can get this

[1:02:14] Voice 2: so what's our next topic

[1:02:17] Voice 5: um our next topic is really interesting this is in regards to

[1:02:21] Voice 5: section 314 in the land use bylaw so on the package that you have it's on page 20. um and

[1:02:29] Voice 5: this is in regards to the sister requirement so this regulation was already in place in your land

[1:02:36] Voice 5: use bylaw before bylaw 122 and the issue that staff had was an interpretation issue um it was

[1:02:47] Voice 5: originally written that um it would state that a building permit shall not be issued for a new

[1:02:53] Voice 5: building to be used as a dwelling and so we asked this question well does a dwelling include a

[1:02:59] Voice 5: cottage and so because the um regulation wasn't clear we brought it to the ltc for clarification

[1:03:07] Voice 5: if the ltc wanted to include the cottage or exclude so that's why it was originally brought

[1:03:13] Voice 5: up for discussion uh the ltc at the time decided that no in fact cottages should be excluded from

[1:03:20] Voice 5: this regulation um and i'm sure as many of you know over the over the years uh the islands trust

[1:03:28] Voice 5: has been done a lot of research on groundwater and so these regulations and other land use

[1:03:36] Voice 5: bylaws have been amended and so that's what we also did in this situation so based on research

[1:03:44] Voice 5: and feedback from our senior freshwater specialists some of the terms change in here

[1:03:51] Voice 5: So instead of the use of rainwater, fresh water was included and the storage capacity went from 9,000 litres up to 18,000 litres.

[1:04:02] Voice 5: And that's pretty standard for the land use bylaws in the Islands Trust.

[1:04:07] Voice 5: And so at the very bottom, what I did was actually included what is actually how it shows the bylaw today with those amendments.

[1:04:16] Voice 5: amendments so the major changes are just clarifying that building a cottage doesn't

[1:04:22] Voice 5: trigger this regulation your cisterns doesn't have to be rainwater you could put fresh water

[1:04:28] Voice 5: so if you in the winter wanted to use well water to put into your cistern a-okay and also the size

[1:04:34] Voice 5: of the cistern capacity did double so it's 18,000 liters so

[1:04:40] Trustee Evans: one thing that I was going to ask we

[1:04:42] Trustee Evans: don't have a definition of fresh water and I've had a lot of questions on that so I'd like to

[1:04:46] Trustee Evans: ask staff to create a fresh water um description to include in the definitions and i believe that

[1:04:56] Trustee Evans: that's that is used like you say was mentioned earlier in many other um lgc areas so i think

[1:05:05] Trustee Evans: that'd be really straightforward um my thoughts on this is again this is a good change because

[1:05:12] Trustee Evans: because it's actually made this easier.

[1:05:18] Trustee Evans: Rainwater is restrictive, it's only one water source.

[1:05:21] Trustee Evans: Fresh water opens it up to many sources.

[1:05:24] Trustee Evans: And 4,000 gallons for a normal household use,

[1:05:29] Trustee Evans: tastiest through the summers,

[1:05:30] Trustee Evans: I think is a reasonable amount.

[1:05:33] Trustee Evans: So again, this is something that I'm actually in favor of.

[1:05:38] Trustee Evans: Again, that's me, but over to you.

[1:05:44] Voice 10: Yeah, I don't have a problem with it, unless somebody has some issues or comments on it

[1:05:49] Voice 10: that I hadn't thought about, it seems like a good thing.

[1:05:53] Voice 10: For our consideration, I would think that maybe the title groundwater protection could

[1:05:59] Voice 10: be freshwater protection, because it's not actually anything to do with groundwater protection.

[1:06:05] Voice 10: Groundwater protection would be, of course, treating maintenance and prevention of runoffs

[1:06:11] Voice 10: and leaching and that kind of stuff so just make an opening at that um but otherwise i'm fine thank

[1:06:18] Voice 10: you thank you over to you anybody have anything i

[1:06:20] Voice 5: may have a quick question because this question

[1:06:22] Voice 5: may be asked i just want to clarify that this regulation doesn't require the property owner

[1:06:29] Voice 5: to hook it up to your dwelling so you don't have to actually use the water within your house it's

[1:06:35] Voice 5: really just encourage the property owner to have a cistern on the property that you can use for

[1:06:40] Voice 5: watering your garden your lawn washing your car and so forth so there's no requirement to hook

[1:06:46] Voice 5: into your um part of the model of the water system in the home

[1:06:52] Voice 8: thank you

[1:06:53] Voice 9: um uh

[1:06:56] Voice 11: just a clarification

[1:06:57] Voice 11: about groundwater you had said christine you had said fresh water and you had said well

[1:07:05] Voice 11: could be your well water not rain water but the well water is ground water

[1:07:10] Voice 11: usually rather so maybe it should just be water

[1:07:17] Voice 10: that's a good suggestion

[1:07:18] Voice 10: well i mean ultimately all the water rainwater

[1:07:25] Voice 10: and anyways i agree with jason anybody

[1:07:31] Voice 2: else i'm not

[1:07:34] Voice 10: sure if this is quite quite on

[1:07:38] Voice 10: but um my concern would be long-term with groundwater and to do with housing just general

[1:07:47] Voice 10: development of the islands because i've read some conversations um i don't know where from anymore

[1:07:56] Voice 10: Stating that we want more housing for workers who can provide services for residents, basically to allow for more development and open up the ease of anyone being able to rent a place out.

[1:08:12] Voice 10: um is there something in the trust about sort of and research to show that the island the two

[1:08:22] Voice 10: islands can only support so much use for property or in total for groundwater because if we sort of

[1:08:33] Voice 10: over develop then two things that issue for me are fire and water on the on the island so

[1:08:41] Voice 10: So we could do something about the fire, but we can't change the groundwater situation as far as I know.

[1:08:48] Voice 10: So what is in the trust? Is there a long-range plan to do with it?

[1:08:55] Voice 10: We're talking about sort of square footage and the size of buildings and whatnot.

[1:09:01] Voice 10: So maybe one of you or a morgue can answer the question of what is the long-range plan and the research to back it up.

[1:09:08] Voice 10: we shouldn't over develop the islands even though there may be a drive on certain from certain

[1:09:14] Voice 10: uh when you set away but um so

[1:09:18] Trustee Evans: there are uh with within the islands trust area there are

[1:09:21] Trustee Evans: groundwater studies being conducted there's one that was uh started a little while ago and it's

[1:09:28] Trustee Evans: uh gabriele i always mix them up so thank you

[1:09:30] Voice 9: gabriola

[1:09:32] Trustee Evans: right gabriola is looking um on the

[1:09:34] Trustee Evans: next year to do another groundwater study that will be sort of a template for the rest of the

[1:09:40] Trustee Evans: islands as far as carrying capacity and water usage for the islands so that is that's being

[1:09:47] Trustee Evans: put in the budget for this year for that work to occur so then it'll wind up trickling its way

[1:09:55] Trustee Evans: down through the other islands but I think you're looking more carrying capacity studying

[1:10:02] Trustee Evans: and those have also been discussed but right now at island's trust we have to go through what our

[1:10:08] Trustee Evans: priorities are um and make sure that we we have we have that we that we don't really overload

[1:10:16] Trustee Evans: the staff so that we have too many projects that can't get completed which is position

[1:10:21] Trustee Evans: right now we need to focus our work um so for south panda right now we're not going to be doing

[1:10:30] Trustee Evans: carrying capacity study because we don't have the funds for it we're going to work on other

[1:10:35] Trustee Evans: things first and then we can take a look at um doing something like that in the future

[1:10:44] Voice 10: my way of thinking and i made you wrong is just putting the cart for the horse or whatever

[1:10:49] Voice 10: um is that we don't know how much water we've got that will that can support the island

[1:10:57] Voice 10: and all of this other stuff is great stuff because we're all living here and that's a lot of daily

[1:11:04] Voice 10: life but in the long run it looks like we're shooting ourselves in the foot and well we can

[1:11:11] Voice 10: do this we can develop some more and then we find out oh the studies now tell us you know that it's

[1:11:18] Voice 10: much worse than we expected then what we're going to start to back handle on all the bylaws

[1:11:26] Voice 10: say now we're going to have to reduce structures in the number of people on the island which is

[1:11:32] Voice 10: it's not supportable and part of this trigger is to do with and i think you're wrong again

[1:11:37] Voice 10: is there's swimming pools say in certain locations on the island that were there

[1:11:43] Voice 10: who knows i mean i have no idea i haven't been here that long but they obviously use a whole

[1:11:48] Voice 10: lot more water than an average household that's just using it for daily use without a swimming

[1:11:56] Voice 10: so that would make me think well maybe we should have bylaws saying that in ongoing there should

[1:12:02] Voice 10: be no more excluding pools put in by the wealthy people that can afford to do it because that will

[1:12:09] Voice 10: then suck up the groundwater for the rest of us um again certain things like what in the long run is

[1:12:16] Voice 10: being thought of and it's cash 22 i guess like we want to deal with what we're dealing with today but

[1:12:25] Voice 10: to feed the water and the fire the water and the figure out to be dealt with and then to just

[1:12:31] Voice 10: pretend that we can't be we don't have the time or the money to do that at this point

[1:12:36] Voice 10: seems sort of backwards before

[1:12:40] Voice 2: just default um i just wanted to have a kind of stock till

[1:12:45] Voice 2: oh she gave me the eye um it is um bc groundwater regulations i believe you're not allowed to fill

[1:12:53] Voice 2: of a swimming pool anymore i'm

[1:12:56] Voice 5: not sure that's a really good question

[1:12:57] Voice 2: we'll run across on other

[1:12:59] Voice 2: islands okay um

[1:13:01] Voice 2: i think particularly on denman where you're you're like you have

[1:13:04] Voice 6: to truck it

[1:13:04] Voice 6: so

[1:13:04] Voice 2: you have a residential license a commercial license and so if you're residential you're

[1:13:13] Voice 2: supposed to use it for for potable water purposes for your home only um so and so if you've got a

[1:13:19] Voice 2: flock of 50 chickens in the backyard you have to get a commercial license and and it's different

[1:13:24] Voice 2: regulation so the the rich people with the swimming pool hopefully they're tracking their

[1:13:30] Voice 2: water in because i don't believe provincially nothing to do with island's trust that they're

[1:13:35] Voice 2: allowed to do so and i don't think island's trust has jurisdiction to restrict

[1:13:39] Voice 9: um

[1:13:40] Voice 2: it's the problems

[1:13:42] Voice 2: so that's it's a good question and planter stockville has made notes yeah that's great

[1:13:46] Voice 2: And we'll answer that.

[1:13:48] Voice 2: Trustee Fogg.

[1:13:49] Voice 10: Great, thank you.

[1:13:50] Voice 10: I'll dip my teeth in the pool later.

[1:13:56] Voice 10: I wanted to just give you my perspective on carrying capacity

[1:14:00] Voice 10: and that the planning is happening, that some thought is going into that.

[1:14:04] Voice 10: And I think the Islands Trust was developed with that mindset

[1:14:08] Voice 10: that you're describing.

[1:14:09] Voice 10: It's like, let's look at what's happening here.

[1:14:11] Voice 10: And there was a lot of subdivisions going in,

[1:14:15] Voice 10: as we know on north pender and i think that was what drove the impetus to to create islands trust

[1:14:25] Voice 10: is to say if this just carries on and there's mushrooms we're going to run out of water we're

[1:14:29] Voice 10: going to run out of trees we're going to run out of all kinds of resources and we're going to be

[1:14:32] Voice 10: overcrowded and so zone you know islands trust was developed and zoning was developed and for

[1:14:38] Voice 10: south pender we have developed 80 approximately of the properties that are zoned and the remaining

[1:14:44] Voice 10: undeveloped properties that are zoned I think with without you know with 74 or whatever they

[1:14:53] Voice 10: developed that zoning the knowledge they had at that time the best knowledge they had at that

[1:14:58] Voice 10: time which was not you know a full scientific carrying capacity study but it was the best that

[1:15:06] Voice 10: they had at the time their guess what could happen here safely was what the zoning allowed

[1:15:13] Voice 10: And if we, as the LTC, don't override the zoning that's currently in place and say, oh, yeah, you can subdivide a whole bunch of things, if we don't allow that, then that carrying capacity is kind of addressed already.

[1:15:26] Voice 10: Maybe not, you know, maybe it's, maybe the guesstimate from 72 or 74 was off a bit, but to my perspective, it seems very reasonable.

[1:15:36] Voice 10: like it seems like the lots that we have that could be built on if everything was built on

[1:15:42] Voice 10: i don't feel like our island would be over overbuilt and certainly when i drive around

[1:15:49] Voice 10: to other islands just across the bridge here it doesn't seem like that to me so it seems like

[1:15:54] Voice 10: we're in really good faith on south bender we have a lot of land we're not overcrowded

[1:15:58] Voice 10: even if we built up everything so in terms of what christina was mentioning about you know

[1:16:05] Voice 10: know we're not going to spend a lot of scarce money on a carrying capacity right now is

[1:16:10] Voice 10: because

[1:16:11] Voice 10: it because of what I just explained it doesn't seem like a really high priority it's not like

[1:16:15] Voice 10: we're in dire straits here it's not like it's a three-for-all and we're really up you know

[1:16:19] Voice 10: trying to catch up here we've already got this and all we have to do is not go crazy and approve

[1:16:25] Voice 10: a whole bunch of water use things that are outside of what's already there right so and then to have

[1:16:34] Voice 10: my feet dangling in the pool. I just want to point out that swimming pools generally are filled no

[1:16:42] Voice 10: more than once a year because they have filtration systems and if I had a swimming pool I do not,

[1:16:47] Voice 10: so I probably can't dangle my feet, but you would fill it in the winter time with rainwater

[1:16:54] Voice 10: and you wouldn't have to worry about it. You wouldn't have to refill it till next rain comes

[1:16:59] Voice 10: kind of thing so I think there are ways around it like sometimes we get a little sort of restrict

[1:17:04] Voice 10: we restrict because we're afraid of this we're afraid of that or whatever and we want to retain

[1:17:08] Voice 10: you know resources but sometimes there's ways to retain resources without having to give up

[1:17:15] Voice 10: everything right so I think that's the kind of thinking I want to see more of so that we can

[1:17:19] Voice 10: not not take everything away from ourselves if we can have it without causing any damage right so

[1:17:26] Voice 10: So anyway, thank you, thank you for the evidence.

[1:17:29] Trustee Evans: I was just going to say, with regards

[1:17:32] Trustee Evans: to the whole conversation that was being brought up here,

[1:17:36] Trustee Evans: one good thing to bear in mind with regards to South Pender

[1:17:39] Trustee Evans: is that 30 by 30 that everyone has been aiming for.

[1:17:45] Trustee Evans: South Pender has 32% protected parks and protected areas.

[1:17:51] Trustee Evans: areas um so we're already past the the mark that we've been aiming for um a lot of the other

[1:17:58] Trustee Evans: islands are i think somewhere down to like 18 so we're we're we're in good standing um so we are

[1:18:06] Trustee Evans: not overdeveloped um so that's that's like and i understand that your your view of caution for the

[1:18:13] Trustee Evans: future uh but i think we if we don't subdivide and allow um uh zoning changes for too many like

[1:18:23] Trustee Evans: multiple dwellings on small lots we should be fine as far as carrying capacity goes on south panda

[1:18:32] Voice 2: okay thank you so certainly now sorry

[1:18:34] Voice 8: i've had my hand up okay

[1:18:36] Voice 2: let's go for you okay um monica

[1:18:39] Voice 8: between um i just want to say that um i'm in favor of retaining the wording groundwater

[1:18:50] Voice 8: protection we're not protecting rainwater we're protecting groundwater and i think it's really

[1:18:57] Voice 8: important that we maintain that understanding it's groundwater that's at risk um and i don't know

[1:19:08] Voice 8: about the people with swimming pools, but I doubt that many of them are going to work with rainwater.

[1:19:15] Voice 8: I

[1:19:16] Trustee Evans: was just going to say, we were talking about changing it to fresh water which encompasses more

[1:19:20] Trustee Evans: than just one specific type of water, whereas rainwater is specific, well okay, groundwater

[1:19:26] Trustee Evans: is specific, fresh

[1:19:28] Voice 8: water... I don't want to change the definition of groundwater because...

[1:19:36] Trustee Evans: Yeah, so groundwater is groundwater. Freshwater will be the streams and everything else.

[1:19:41] Trustee Evans: Someone was just suggesting that. I

[1:19:44] Voice 1: think somebody mentioned

[1:19:45] Trustee Evans: rainwater, but we're not

[1:19:46] Trustee Evans: talking about rainwater, we're talking about freshwater. Freshwater encompasses, it's a bigger

[1:19:52] Trustee Evans: encompassing, so it'd be freshwater protection to protect all freshwater sources,

[1:19:56] Trustee Evans: not just one specific. It actually opens it up a bit more.

[1:20:01] Trustee Evans: So, when

[1:20:03] Voice 10: it comes to water, I think we should err on the side of caution.

[1:20:11] Voice 10: I'm pleased to see that the use of cisterns is very common nowadays.

[1:20:21] Voice 10: I have to comment that my well, which I put in 30 years ago, just this year has noticed the static water level is lower

[1:20:32] Voice 10: And the quality of the water is, it's got a higher level of iron and manganese in it,

[1:20:41] Voice 10: which is an indication of a lower water table.

[1:20:44] Voice 10: So I don't think that's, I think that would have bugged me.

[1:20:57] Voice 10: I work with I dig a lot of wells and right now I'm finding dry ground when I'm excavating the

[1:21:07] Voice 10: back of my farm right now to make some reclamation work and it's April so yeah there's there's

[1:21:14] Voice 10: reason to be concerned and i couldn't take them lightly and technically

[1:21:25] Voice 10: well i have a question regarding cisterns is a pond considered a sister and if not

[1:21:34] Voice 10: if you look up in the dictionary it does actually include a pond as a cistern as part of a cistern

[1:21:41] Voice 10: description are we encouraging ponds on properties and if not why not it's a tremendous way to collect

[1:21:48] Voice 10: water and uh as a former pool owner i can say uh on south bender pool on our south bender we did

[1:21:57] Voice 10: fill the pool for marine water and from the pump it's not from the well because we don't have it

[1:22:03] Voice 2: can you give clarification with this definition of a system um

[1:22:07] Voice 5: it's not considered so cistern

[1:22:10] Voice 5: would not be, or currently upon, could not be considered cistern. That's not the intent.

[1:22:18] Voice 2: Shall we

[1:22:19] Voice 2: go back and then say, well, he said, okay, well, go ahead, but yeah.

[1:22:26] Voice 11: Just seeing it before you, I'm just surprised that there's not more concern

[1:22:32] Voice 11: and emphasis on rainwater collection in cisterns that you can use for, well, all sorts of things.

[1:22:40] Voice 11: can be purified for home use or in my case i leave it all for the garden so i do not touch my well

[1:22:47] Voice 11: water or things like that it just it's not that hard to do it's not that expensive and

[1:22:55] Voice 11: i personally think that it should be a regulation new construction that they have to have some way

[1:23:02] Voice 11: of collecting rainwater and adding to the budget because the groundwater is limited people's wills

[1:23:13] Voice 1: thank you

[1:23:17] Voice 10: my question was

[1:23:18] Voice 10: because it was

[1:23:21] Voice 10: far upon

[1:23:22] Voice 10: so

[1:23:23] Voice 10: thank you

[1:23:30] Voice 10: and

[1:23:31] Voice 5: if I may

[1:23:31] Voice 5: we're very fortunate at the Islands Trust

[1:23:34] Voice 5: to have a William Shulba

[1:23:36] Voice 5: he's our senior fresh water

[1:23:38] Voice 5: specialist he's been with the Islands Trust many many

[1:23:40] Voice 5: years he is incredible

[1:23:41] Voice 5: incredible um and it may be worthwhile um when we discuss this topic again in the project that he

[1:23:49] Voice 5: uh if you can't make it in person zooms in because he is the person to ask all these questions to

[1:23:55] Voice 5: he he's just his immense wealth of knowledge and i think it'd be really valuable for some

[1:24:01] Voice 5: entertaining to have a little one-on

[1:24:04] Voice 5: -one with william

[1:24:04] Voice 11: yeah i'll make a note of that

[1:24:10] Voice 10: I do want to add to the voice of saying that

[1:24:14] Voice 10: we've been off-prioritizing the water protection

[1:24:17] Voice 10: in terms of the priorities of the Local Trust Council

[1:24:21] Voice 10: I think that there are

[1:24:24] Voice 10: John Kelly from Southlands Drive

[1:24:28] Voice 10: and the water table has changed

[1:24:33] Voice 10: in the very short time that we've been here

[1:24:36] Voice 10: I totally agree with what Ron has said.

[1:24:38] Voice 10: This is incredibly dry compared to what it was 24 years ago this spring.

[1:24:43] Voice 10: I think we're in the third or fourth year of the drought.

[1:24:46] Voice 10: We also have an unconfirmed report from one of our neighbors of saltwater intrusion.

[1:24:53] Voice 10: And I did watch the seminar, the Island Trust Seminar on groundwater.

[1:24:58] Voice 10: water, and that was a very, very, a huge risk for us, especially in South Pender and the

[1:25:10] Voice 10: type of terrain that we have, and once, my understanding is once a well has been contaminated

[1:25:20] Voice 10: by saltwater intrusion, it is unlikely to recover from that, and so we're wondering

[1:25:27] Voice 10: as neighbors, prospective neighbors, have self-water intrusion on some plants, does that impact us and all of those things.

[1:25:39] Voice 10: So I think making sure that it's a huge priority out there, I don't concede would be my wish.

[1:25:45] Trustee Evans: And that's why I support these changes, getting the larger cisterns in place

[1:25:52] Trustee Evans: and having the ability to store water from multiple sources, not just a single source.

[1:25:58] Voice 10: Ironically, filling a large cistern using the well

[1:26:02] Voice 10: is possibly what may have caused this incidence of salt water.

[1:26:10] Voice 10: Well, just back, the Islands Trust put out a paper choosing your building site

[1:26:18] Voice 10: and one of the recommendations says plan and i'm quoting this straight from that paper

[1:26:24] Voice 10: plan to store rainwater on site by constructing a cistern pond or wetland so why are we

[1:26:33] Voice 10: not saying we should value the pond we're

[1:26:38] Trustee Evans: not saying that you shouldn't use ponds what we're

[1:26:40] Trustee Evans: saying is you can't use a pond instead of a cistern you have to have a cistern because

[1:26:44] Trustee Evans: because the definition of a cistern is different to the definition of a pond.

[1:26:50] Trustee Evans: And if you've got an open pond, as one of our neighbours had,

[1:26:53] Trustee Evans: and a deer fell into it and died,

[1:26:55] Trustee Evans: and if you're using that for your potable water, not really a good idea.

[1:27:01] Voice 10: Well, I guess your statement about the definition of a cistern does not say pond.

[1:27:08] Voice 10: I just looked

[1:27:11] Trustee Evans: up online what a definition of a cistern was.

[1:27:15] Trustee Evans: It's a closed tank, which is not a pond.

[1:27:19] Voice 10: Well, I've got one that says it is.

[1:27:23] Voice 10: I can read it for you.

[1:27:27] Trustee Evans: So this

[1:27:28] Trustee Evans: is a dictionary, a tank used for storing water,

[1:27:33] Trustee Evans: especially while supplying tap water as part of household use.

[1:27:37] Voice 10: Yeah, people only read half of what you explained.

[1:27:40] Voice 10: So, clearly, then we should have a definition of what sister, sister, now, if that's what

[1:27:48] Voice 10: you need.

[1:27:53] Voice 10: So we're here, we're having some council, you know, making a bigger priority of what

[1:28:00] Voice 10: are you, you know, I noticed him when you mentioned that the there was no requirement

[1:28:08] Voice 10: There's no included requirement here to hook up the tank to anything, and there's no prescribed use for it.

[1:28:17] Voice 10: You're allowed to use it to water your garden, but nobody says you have to use that to water your garden, and or any other use.

[1:28:24] Voice 10: Now, if we were to say we're going to consider putting something in there to be more prescriptive, you know, hooking it up or something like that, what do you think of that?

[1:28:34] Voice 10: is that how does that come across to you i'm

[1:28:38] Trustee Evans: actually going to jump again before staff jumps

[1:28:40] Trustee Evans: in on that and i'm going to say i don't think we should have more restricted bylaws that's not

[1:28:44] Trustee Evans: that's not the point but

[1:28:46] Voice 10: i didn't want to hear from you actually story i want to hear from all

[1:28:49] Voice 10: of you so

[1:28:50] Trustee Evans: i'm actually going to ask another another question the topic here is do you agree

[1:28:54] Trustee Evans: with these changes or not if you can say if you're in favor or not in favor of these as you're

[1:28:58] Trustee Evans: speaking that would be helpful because a lot of people got a lot of things to say but i still

[1:29:02] Trustee Evans: don't know if you're in favor or not favor on keeping the the wording the way it is now the

[1:29:09] Trustee Evans: way that it's changed but

[1:29:11] Voice 2: gentlemen back to them sir

[1:29:14] Voice 10: oh sorry i'll give two points i hope um one

[1:29:19] Voice 10: was prompted by the rainwater collection um section i don't know if that's in there but

[1:29:26] Voice 10: But my way of thinking, again, is if you take the rainwater that would normally go in my house, it goes into the ground.

[1:29:37] Voice 10: It kind of goes into the gutters, down the drain pipes, into the ground.

[1:29:40] Voice 10: So then to add to groundwater, if we start promoting rainwater use, it's not that I oppose to it.

[1:29:51] Voice 10: But it seems like, well, then now we're subtracting another source of groundwater that's a way of refilling the groundwater.

[1:30:00] Voice 10: portion of it in my ignorance i don't know if that's true um so what can

[1:30:07] Trustee Evans: i can i just answer

[1:30:09] Trustee Evans: that so the way that it was written before it was a rainwater collection and you had to collect a

[1:30:14] Trustee Evans: certain amount and store a certain amount of rainwater so the way that it's been changed now

[1:30:19] Trustee Evans: it's not you have to collect rainwater you can now collect fresh water so again i'm going to

[1:30:24] Trustee Evans: to ask the question are you in favor of like do you support um having fresh water the way that

[1:30:31] Trustee Evans: the way that the previous ltc changed it are you in support of keeping the way that the ltc changed

[1:30:35] Trustee Evans: it or do you want to go back to the way it was before so go back to collecting rainwater and

[1:30:40] Trustee Evans: excluding all other types of water or are you okay with how the ltc changed it and now opening it up

[1:30:46] Trustee Evans: to other forms of water collection for your system okay that's the question and

[1:30:55] Voice 2: terrific

[1:30:56] Voice 2: I can answer a little bit of your diversion question is that twofold is typically speaking

[1:31:04] Voice 2: people who have say their gutters eventually hooked up it goes into a drain pipe which

[1:31:09] Voice 2: normally goes into a dish which is like a conduit straight to the sea so it's not necessarily

[1:31:15] Voice 2: becoming groundwater the other part is is that if you're putting in a cistern eventually it's

[1:31:21] Voice 2: going to become drain water or groundwater because it's going to end up in your garden

[1:31:26] Voice 2: If you flush it down your toilet, it's going to get up in your septic field.

[1:31:29] Voice 2: So it's basically, you're diverting it, but it's still going back down.

[1:31:34] Voice 2: So what I've heard in the past was cisterns are a really good water management thing,

[1:31:40] Voice 2: because if you're putting it out of your gutters into the ditch,

[1:31:45] Voice 2: that's not necessarily going to capture tall groundwater.

[1:31:48] Voice 10: Sorry, now you remind me of the second point. Thank you.

[1:31:54] Voice 10: you're supposed to be in farmland and i think like ponds there's to me there's an evaporation

[1:32:00] Voice 10: issue going on so that doesn't seem a good way to contain water on an ongoing basis unless it's

[1:32:06] Voice 10: for eating animals or um that's understandable but for the rest of us containing it in a sealed

[1:32:13] Voice 10: container is the only way that we should have is that part of this as you said christina

[1:32:20] Voice 10: and sisters are contained.

[1:32:24] Trustee Evans: Yeah, no, that's not really part of that

[1:32:26] Trustee Evans: because what we're talking about here

[1:32:27] Trustee Evans: is the way that this was changed.

[1:32:29] Trustee Evans: So I guess what I'm asking is,

[1:32:32] Trustee Evans: are you happy with the way that it's currently written

[1:32:34] Trustee Evans: or do you want it to go back to,

[1:32:36] Trustee Evans: it has to just be rainwater?

[1:32:38] Trustee Evans: I mean, there was a lot of conversation involved in there,

[1:32:41] Trustee Evans: but it would be really helpful for me to know,

[1:32:43] Trustee Evans: do you support keeping the way that it's written

[1:32:46] Trustee Evans: or do you want it to go back to how it was written before?

[1:32:48] Trustee Evans: board.

[1:32:49] Voice 10: I think it's

[1:32:55] Voice 6: hard to say yay or nay because I'm getting this information and all the

[1:33:00] Voice 6: descriptions and the issues for the very first time so I can't say I approve of cisterns and

[1:33:07] Voice 6: having water storage and I think we should all be educated about how to do that but my storage tank

[1:33:13] Voice 6: i get rain water and a second well that's how i feel it so it's not purely just fresh water

[1:33:20] Voice 6: but the point i want to is a little bit when we brought it up except ronnie brought it up

[1:33:25] Voice 6: the fact that he feels that you know his water table as well as lower and you know

[1:33:31] Voice 6: you said about

[1:33:32] Voice 6: higher up or losing the water but i think there's some

[1:33:35] Voice 9: merit to that

[1:33:36] Voice 6: maybe a factor yeah i think

[1:33:38] Voice 6: there's merit to that and i kind of have what i would say a shocking experience and i live on

[1:33:44] Voice 6: south wales just down the road from john and i had there's a dug well for the property when i bought

[1:33:50] Voice 6: it 30 feet dug well and a drilled well and the drill well is actually 650 feet down so almost

[1:33:58] Voice 6: sea level i would say anyway both wells seem to be doing well um about two years ago or 18 months ago

[1:34:07] Voice 6: I looked out the window and there was a big drill and it was going across the road from my place

[1:34:12] Voice 6: and I would say it would be by you know uh 50 meters from where my well was and I went out and

[1:34:20] Voice 6: I said you know you're digging your well and mine's right there my neighbor's is right there and

[1:34:25] Voice 6: and the guy's just like we're just following instructions you know we don't determine where

[1:34:30] Voice 6: we drill the wells we're following instructions but I I think that's a problem I don't think

[1:34:36] Voice 6: people should just be able to come along without knowing where all the lower wells situated and

[1:34:42] Voice 6: just go in and do a well anywhere they want because clearly there's going to be a problem to

[1:34:49] Voice 6: my house the other household if they're a little uphill like but so close to

[1:34:57] Voice 6: my well and i i think there should be some sort of restriction about that and i'm not one for a

[1:35:04] Voice 6: a lot of restrictions no but i think

[1:35:06] Voice 6: i just have to be regulated it is potentially

[1:35:09] Voice 2: regulated so

[1:35:11] Voice 6: they said they could dig anywhere and that's so what happened was i filmed the landowner and i

[1:35:17] Voice 6: said it's not fun doing that yeah that that is actually regulated at a provincial level

[1:35:24] Voice 6: well they've been digging right where they were digging literally just 50 meters from where my

[1:35:30] Voice 6: well with yeah

[1:35:32] Voice 7: ma'am since i previously previously spoke and after this discussion i would support

[1:35:39] Voice 7: the wedding change thank you ma'am we're

[1:35:42] Voice 11: back yes um so you're asking us with the blue

[1:35:46] Voice 11: rectangle if we like that or yes that's right i i think that the new blue is just fine and i just

[1:35:54] Voice 11: want to be sure that everybody knows that it's about new buildings not about any other building

[1:35:59] Voice 11: and and may i suggest that because there's some conversation about groundwater rainwater

[1:36:07] Voice 11: freshwater can we just say lift them all fresh water

[1:36:11] Trustee Evans: encompasses them all does it yeah does

[1:36:14] Trustee Evans: everybody get that that's what i was trying to say but

[1:36:16] Trustee Evans: fresh water encompasses all of them

[1:36:18] Voice 11: we're not identifying

[1:36:19] Trustee Evans: only one fresh water encompasses all of them yes all

[1:36:23] Voice 11: right as long

[1:36:24] Voice 11: this week does everybody get that so i'm in favor of the thing that the blues

[1:36:34] Voice 10: and would that include desalination for

[1:36:42] Voice 9: a fresh water source and i will look that up

[1:36:48] Voice 9: they're good enough people

[1:36:49] Voice 10: on the islands who have desalinated water

[1:37:10] Voice 10: okay

[1:37:11] Trustee Evans: so fresh water naturally occurring water that is not salty

[1:37:15] Trustee Evans: a body or water course of inlet fresh water um fresh water is water found not in the sea and not

[1:37:25] Trustee Evans: of marine fish the

[1:37:29] Voice 5: state

[1:37:30] Trustee Evans: currently does not have the through

[1:37:35] Voice 5: the chair this might be really good

[1:37:37] Voice 5: questions for william you said

[1:37:40] Voice 11: you have the definition of french culture

[1:37:41] Voice 5: i don't have it

[1:37:43] Voice 5: here no more groundwater but um yeah he is the one to ask all these questions

[1:37:47] Voice 5: he knows those definitions and they are very different let me tell you yeah he's told us

[1:37:54] Voice 5: before and they have true

[1:37:58] Voice 10: yes yes um thank you uh i would just like to say i support this uh change

[1:38:04] Voice 10: to the bylaw number one and number two uh i'm also appreciative of the comment that both ron

[1:38:11] Voice 10: and shelly made regarding impact with adjacent property owner activity i would like to add to

[1:38:18] Voice 10: that my concern about blasting and how blasting can affect rainwater um access and raises before

[1:38:27] Voice 10: and i would really appreciate the trustees looking into the blasting

[1:38:34] Trustee Evans: I think that's outside of our purview actually

[1:38:40] Voice 10: quite the contrary um the in 2021 the provincial

[1:38:47] Voice 10: government extended to local trust committees the ability to address um this issue and salt

[1:38:54] Voice 10: spring has bylaw I've sent the trustees a letter referencing that bylaw I would encourage

[1:39:00] Voice 10: you to have at least a look at that and think about it thank you good point yep i

[1:39:06] Voice 11: i agree with

[1:39:07] Voice 11: paul by the way about the excessive

[1:39:10] Voice 11: blasting so maybe um can we ask him if you could pull that

[1:39:16] Voice 11: you know

[1:39:17] Voice 5: the definition of the bible is in regards to blasting or is it the soil removal

[1:39:22] Voice 5: removal and removal as part of that.

[1:39:25] Voice 5: So yeah, that's good because last

[1:39:27] Voice 5: thing is really regulated.

[1:39:28] Voice 5: For whatever semester D.

[1:39:30] Voice 5: So potentially you could address

[1:39:33] Voice 5: the concern of blasting potentially

[1:39:35] Voice 5: through the soil deposit and removal

[1:39:37] Voice 5: by law or even establishing

[1:39:39] Voice 5: development permit areas as well.

[1:39:41] Voice 5: And

[1:39:42] Voice 9: that's what's up with us, yeah.

[1:39:47] Voice 9: Probably heard,

[1:39:49] Voice 10: but I'm not quite sure.

[1:39:49] Voice 10: or if we could have the water expert come to and i don't know if they're going over

[1:39:57] Voice 10: i would be but it's not fair to ask either a detailed question anyway so to ask someone who's

[1:40:08] Voice 10: in charge of the whole thing then i feel a lot more comfortable with getting clear about the

[1:40:14] Voice 10: water issue because with climate changes ron mentioning to do with water table lowering

[1:40:22] Voice 10: it's not going to get better and so we again i'm saying we need to put this

[1:40:29] Voice 10: earth not not last not sort of when it's conveniently to be figuring out the water

[1:40:35] Voice 10: for all the animals um maybe some of us are going to have to leave at some point because

[1:40:41] Voice 10: because down the road, whether I'm still alive or not

[1:40:45] Voice 10: is not a matter of any of that.

[1:40:47] Voice 10: So we're thinking long-term,

[1:40:49] Voice 10: then the water, the need has to come first.

[1:40:52] Voice 10: Fire control.

[1:40:54] Trustee Evans: That request was already put in with him.

[1:40:57] Trustee Evans: So the next time that we come forward

[1:40:59] Trustee Evans: to have the discussion on water,

[1:41:01] Trustee Evans: that we're gonna ask that he be present

[1:41:02] Trustee Evans: to field these questions.

[1:41:05] Trustee Evans: So this, we will come back to all of this later

[1:41:08] Trustee Evans: in the process as well.

[1:41:09] Trustee Evans: All

[1:41:10] Voice 2: right, thank you.

[1:41:10] Voice 2: So anybody else on cisterns?

[1:41:13] Voice 2: No,

[1:41:14] Voice 10: I kind of support this. We can't just get water from having a fresh water.

[1:41:19] Voice 10: Personally, I don't care what people put in their cisterns, but it depends on your uniform.

[1:41:25] Voice 10: Perfect.

[1:41:26] Trustee Evans: I guess I'm going to ask a slightly different question.

[1:41:30] Trustee Evans: Same topic, just the other way. Is there anyone here that has a problem with the way this is currently written?

[1:41:37] Trustee Evans: Or can we put a checkmark by this and move on?

[1:41:46] Voice 11: So

[1:41:47] Trustee Evans: I'm not seeing or hearing anyone having an issue with the way this is written.

[1:41:50] Trustee Evans: You have an issue?

[1:41:53] Voice 11: Yeah, I think

[1:41:54] Voice 10: that the way it was written before was to address the shortage of water and encourage people to use rainwater.

[1:42:04] Voice 10: not to have a cistern or have their well fill it.

[1:42:10] Voice 10: And I think that's why it's important to have this water expert come and explain that,

[1:42:17] Voice 10: so that we know or understand

[1:42:19] Trustee Evans: better why this was changed from the collection of rainwater,

[1:42:24] Trustee Evans: that's sort of almost like free water, as opposed to just filling it from a well.

[1:42:33] Trustee Evans: fresh water this includes rainwater fresh water includes rainwater yes so i think when it was

[1:42:40] Trustee Evans: written before and

[1:42:41] Voice 6: it was only rainwater

[1:42:42] Voice 10: that it was referring to was probably more environmentally

[1:42:48] Voice 10: thoughtful because it was specifically saying rainwater collection as opposed to somebody

[1:42:54] Voice 10: building a cistern with their new home and having a well

[1:42:58] Trustee Evans: and you're filling it from the well which

[1:43:01] Trustee Evans: to please the groundwater but we're not saying that you have to do it from your well you can

[1:43:06] Trustee Evans: just do it from rainwater as well but we are in a rain shadow on south pender as we know it can be

[1:43:11] Trustee Evans: absolutely bucketing down here and it's sunny blue skies over there so when we come to the summer

[1:43:17] Trustee Evans: months if we're only reliant on rainwater when we have winters that don't produce enough rain

[1:43:23] Trustee Evans: you might not

[1:43:24] Trustee Evans: get enough to see you through the summer months so think

[1:43:27] Trustee Evans: that's i think that's why

[1:43:29] Trustee Evans: the previous trustees changed it to this so that you'd have other options and that you're not

[1:43:34] Trustee Evans: restricted to only rain water okay and i appreciate you answering that because i had no idea i didn't

[1:43:41] Trustee Evans: understand why it's been changed to fresh water because i think the original intention was to

[1:43:50] Trustee Evans: get people

[1:43:50] Voice 10: collecting rain water not

[1:43:52] Trustee Evans: just installing a cistern having no rain water

[1:43:56] Trustee Evans: attachment and then just filling it from a well you know i think we're still

[1:43:59] Trustee Evans: encouraging rain

[1:44:00] Trustee Evans: water but having having the ability to supplement when needed it's not take it from your well and

[1:44:08] Trustee Evans: you're done good for you um never mind your neighbors no it's like you've got rain water

[1:44:13] Trustee Evans: but you've only managed to fill half your tank what are you going to do in the summer when you've

[1:44:16] Trustee Evans: got no more water then

[1:44:18] Voice 1: you're going to have

[1:44:18] Trustee Evans: to truck it in if

[1:44:20] Voice 1: you're not able

[1:44:21] Trustee Evans: to if you're not

[1:44:21] Trustee Evans: able to supplement and top up then you're in trouble especially once we've been doubled so

[1:44:28] Trustee Evans: I mean rainwater yes you can have half the amount or if you need okay so you can have half the amount

[1:44:34] Trustee Evans: just rainwater sure we can go back to that but if you need to have a larger system or a larger

[1:44:39] Trustee Evans: amount which we're finding in as we're getting into drier months we're all noticing our summers

[1:44:45] Trustee Evans: are drier instead of it just being two or three weeks going with without water it could be you

[1:44:49] Trustee Evans: know five to six weeks now we kind of have to think we are getting prior we have to think

[1:44:57] Trustee Evans: a little bit more down the road too but that's me so well i appreciate you explaining because

[1:45:04] Trustee Evans: i didn't

[1:45:05] Voice 11: understand why it didn't change when i was more conservative yeah

[1:45:09] Voice 10: so are you counting

[1:45:12] Voice 10: a bit about oh i understand that anybody

[1:45:14] Voice 2: else on the systems if not we'll move on to i guess

[1:45:18] Voice 2: agriculture is less

[1:45:20] Voice 5: topic

[1:45:21] Voice 2: yeah

[1:45:22] Voice 5: um really the intention was to align the land use bylaw with

[1:45:30] Voice 5: policies and regulations of the alc so what you see here the regulations in relation to

[1:45:37] Voice 5: agritourism and agritourist accommodation for recommendations right from the alc

[1:45:44] Voice 5: see. I also want to mention that agritourism and agritourist accommodation cannot be prohibited

[1:45:55] Voice 5: in the land use bylaw. So local governments must allow that use, but the LTC is able to regulate

[1:46:04] Voice 5: that use. So as you can see here, they are committed accessory uses. They're accessory

[1:46:10] Voice 5: to the farm use and then there's a list of condition of uses which is on page 31 of the

[1:46:16] Voice 5: document so that's where the ltc has further regulated the use and those are all based on

[1:46:22] Voice 5: recommendations from the agricultural land commission the only one that went above and

[1:46:29] Voice 5: beyond so the ltc further restricted is actually on page 32 it's number 22 where it's talking about

[1:46:38] Voice 5: about restricting the number of guests

[1:46:40] Voice 5: for agri-tourist accommodation.

[1:46:44] Voice 5: A, the ALC allows up to 10 bedrooms,

[1:46:48] Voice 5: but the LTC decided, no, that was too much.

[1:46:51] Voice 5: So the maximum was actually 10 guests or five bedrooms.

[1:46:54] Voice 5: So that was the only regulation

[1:46:58] Voice 5: that the LTC went a step further than the ALC.

[1:47:05] Voice 9: Yeah.

[1:47:06] Voice 9: Don't trustees have anything?

[1:47:08] Voice 9: Trustee Fowler?

[1:47:09] Voice 10: clarification one uh point 13 there says i agree agritourism buildings or structures are not

[1:47:17] Voice 10: permitted and then if the following parts say that they are permitted so a little confused there

[1:47:24] Voice 5: so which is the one that says they are permitted is it number 19 you're referring to

[1:47:28] Voice 5: uh under conditions of use yeah 13 yeah it

[1:47:32] Voice 10: says it's not allowed not permitted

[1:47:34] Voice 5: agritourism

[1:47:35] Voice 5: buildings or structures right yeah and

[1:47:37] Voice 10: then it's and then 14 is agritourism must be in compliance

[1:47:40] Voice 10: so yeah and then it's agritourism and agritourism accommodations are only permitted on a lot

[1:47:45] Voice 10: so and

[1:47:48] Trustee Evans: then 19 agritourism building structures must not exceed a floor area of and that's

[1:47:54] Voice 5: referring to the agritourism accommodation which is separate from agritourism and it was confusing

[1:48:01] Voice 5: I had to refer to the ALC's policy.

[1:48:05] Voice 5: So agritourism, the examples they provide are, for example, a tour of agricultural land,

[1:48:13] Voice 5: a cart, sleigh or tractor ride, dog trails, corn mazes.

[1:48:20] Voice 5: So that's their definition, maybe, of agritourism use.

[1:48:25] Voice 5: And then which really should have no buildings or structures,

[1:48:29] Voice 5: because it's really almost a tour of the farm use and then agri-tourist accommodation would

[1:48:35] Voice 5: obviously have buildings and structures because we need somewhere for uh those people to sleep

[1:48:41] Voice 5: so i

[1:48:41] Trustee Evans: think when i was asking earlier so an agro an agri-tourism such as and the example i was

[1:48:49] Trustee Evans: asking about was they've got a lavender farm and you've got a you've got a lavender distillery and

[1:48:53] Trustee Evans: you've got all this stuff you can't take a tour through there because that's a building

[1:48:56] Trustee Evans: building you

[1:48:57] Voice 5: could take them through there yeah you just can't have a building that's associated

[1:49:01] Voice 5: with the agri-tourism use so if you're selling lavender that would be a part of your

[1:49:10] Voice 5: farm retail sales so you could still walk through there you'd be you know that would be part of the

[1:49:17] Voice 5: tour

[1:49:17] Trustee Evans: so it'd be more like you couldn't build um like a theater sure absolutely that's a good

[1:49:25] Trustee Evans: that yeah that's a good example okay I think we need some definitions here

[1:49:30] Voice 10: I find it very

[1:49:32] Voice 10: confusing like agro-tourism and then agro-tourist and they one is a lot not permitted and the other

[1:49:39] Voice 10: one is permitted it's just the language is really confusing I don't know if there's a way yeah it

[1:49:45] Voice 5: sounds like what we could do is take a look at that again and make it so it's easier to um go

[1:49:52] Voice 5: through evaluate and that's

[1:49:54] Voice 11: why we're doing this so absolutely

[1:49:56] Voice 10: just it just reads like

[1:49:58] Voice 10: contradictory yeah

[1:49:59] Voice 11: sure

[1:50:01] Voice 10: um yeah my when i read this and tried to make sense of it

[1:50:05] Voice 10: um what i thought was a key provision is 15 where accommodation for agritourism

[1:50:13] Voice 10: is only permitted where there is farm status so that separates it from um

[1:50:20] Voice 10: something other than that that the kind of things you were talking about camera

[1:50:24] Voice 10: uh and also that uh that must be located in alr reserves so the accommodation for agritourism

[1:50:36] uh issue is limited to

[1:50:38] Voice 10: specific farms that have farm status so that is a very limiting

[1:50:42] Voice 10: factor i would think for accommodation and it also requires that that uh agritourism

[1:50:50] Voice 10: uh be related to the activity on that farm it isn't that you just have farm status and then

[1:50:55] Voice 10: you can go out and do anything the agritourism must be related to the what you're crawling on

[1:51:04] Voice 10: the farm essentially so it made sense to me in that sense what

[1:51:11] Voice 11: doesn't make sense to me is number

[1:51:12] Voice 11: 13 when 14

[1:51:15] Voice 6: and 15 and 16 and 17 and 18 are talking about accommodations

[1:51:22] Voice 11: and 17 and 18 and 20 so i

[1:51:25] Voice 11: think number 13 should be way down there i

[1:51:29] Voice 6: think we need definitions i think it's a huge quagmire

[1:51:36] Voice 6: and historically when you look at this

[1:51:40] Voice 6: I think it was one of the things that was a bit of an add-on

[1:51:43] Voice 6: a bit of a surprise with the last

[1:51:50] Voice 6: trustees because again we were all

[1:51:52] Voice 6: talking about how size and setbacks as opposed to all these little

[1:51:56] Voice 6: bits and pieces which included the cisterns

[1:52:00] Voice 6: and this and I

[1:52:03] Voice 6: I asked Peter Luckham, who was our chair for the last, with the prior trustees, and who continues to be the chair of the Islands Trust, are there any other communities in British Columbia who have decided that they can do better than the Agriculture Land Commission and are setting their own regulations,

[1:52:30] Voice 6: which are more prohibitive than what's actually set out by the agricultural land commission

[1:52:38] Voice 6: and mr luckham said i don't think so he didn't say no but he said i didn't think i don't think so

[1:52:45] Voice 6: and i think that that is a bit extraordinary that we are the only farming community in british

[1:52:51] Voice 6: columbia who the trustees at the time thought you know they they could do better and um i think that

[1:53:01] Voice 6: we should leave it up to the agricultural land commission i think all of this is how do we

[1:53:07] Voice 6: interpret it doesn't make any sense um at the last meeting i think it was your meeting day when it

[1:53:16] Voice 6: It was, I think on how sizes are setbacks, one of them.

[1:53:20] Voice 6: And I, the prior trustee was there, Cameron Thorne.

[1:53:23] Voice 6: And I said, well, why did you do this?

[1:53:26] Voice 6: And we were talking about how size.

[1:53:28] Voice 6: And he said, well, now you could build, if you wanted on your property,

[1:53:32] Voice 6: to 4,000 square foot houses on your 37.5 acres,

[1:53:39] Voice 6: as opposed to one 6,000 square foot house.

[1:53:42] Voice 6: and first of all i think the farmer should be able to decide whether they want two houses like that

[1:53:50] Voice 6: or one and if it's environmental isn't it always better to have one footprint than

[1:53:56] Voice 6: two houses duplicating energy and water and driveways and parking so it that was the only

[1:54:04] Voice 6: rationale that was the only reason he had for um thinking yeah uh we trustees are going to be

[1:54:13] Voice 6: more restrictive than what's in the agricultural land condition who set out you know the formula

[1:54:19] Voice 6: about the acreage the house size the number of outbuildings shade buildings

[1:54:26] Voice 6: barns storage and all that sort of thing we're not

[1:54:30] Voice 6: going to have corn mazes i don't think here

[1:54:32] Voice 6: because we don't have enough water to irrigate and raise crops like that um hay the hay we have

[1:54:42] Voice 6: is one crop a year in the Fraser Valley there's three crops because there's enough rain and there's

[1:54:48] Voice 6: there's irrigation and now I think the only animals we have are yours Rowan the only cows

[1:54:55] Voice 6: and so yeah the only cows before we had diane just left but there were farms with um my dad

[1:55:07] Voice 6: and his brothers um who had cows and sheep and well which farmed we don't have that now

[1:55:15] Voice 6: um and i and i think it's somebody you know they do have in the agricultural land commission

[1:55:22] Voice 6: They look at getting tourism, like having people from the city come to your farms and have a stay and learn about farming and things like that.

[1:55:31] Voice 6: I don't know

[1:55:31] Voice 6: if that's possible with just staff here.

[1:55:34] Voice 6: I

[1:55:34] Trustee Evans: was just going to ask a question of staff.

[1:55:37] Trustee Evans: You said that under conditions of use, with the exception of 22, these are pretty much straight out of the ALR.

[1:55:44] Trustee Evans: so yeah um my my question is if these are removed from here they're still applicable because they're

[1:55:51] Trustee Evans: in the ALR so we shouldn't be duplicating it so my preference would be to remove

[1:55:57] Trustee Evans: uh 20 through 21 and just keep 22 it still meets the um the intent it's the one thing that was

[1:56:07] Trustee Evans: change. And it will clarify and remove misinterpretations of the ALR by the LTCs

[1:56:15] Trustee Evans: in the future, because it's the ALR that will do their interpretation and tell us what their

[1:56:25] Trustee Evans: result is, rather than us doing it twice. Thank

[1:56:28] Voice 8: you.

[1:56:31] Voice 5: Looking back at this, I've learned a lot

[1:56:34] Voice 5: for this process as well and in the past the alc hasn't necessarily made a lot of changes to their

[1:56:40] Voice 5: policies and procedures until the last few years and so things can't change again and even looking

[1:56:46] Voice 5: through some of these the alc may have already changed these yeah so i do agree with you trustee

[1:56:52] Voice 5: evans that um really it may not be worthwhile to put these in if the alr is already regulating it

[1:57:00] Voice 5: and what could happen is these could be out of date or not in compliance so perhaps just leaving

[1:57:05] Voice 5: that these uses are permitted and leave the private regulation up to the ALC that would be

[1:57:10] Voice 5: my professional opinion at this time yeah but again we can come back to that yeah

[1:57:16] Voice 5: Yeah, I'm

[1:57:20] Voice 10: a little confused, but the ALC allows your accommodation on agricultural land, on farms that have farm status, and on the reserve.

[1:57:38] Voice 10: So, basically, so

[1:57:41] Trustee Evans: Ron, these were taken straight from the ALR as they were written back then.

[1:57:46] Trustee Evans: They've changed.

[1:57:50] Voice 10: they were permissible they have been permissible but the thing is how does that overlap with uh our

[1:57:56] Voice 10: local bylaws as far as um your infections and supersede you know acknowledging it as being

[1:58:03] Voice 10: primarily commercial use and um uh the score footage for uh for except that would be a gas

[1:58:12] Voice 10: climate are you building a hotel or are you building uh monkeys for workaways or workers

[1:58:18] Voice 10: you know, once it's a state park, I have real genuine concerns about it becoming a hot topic

[1:58:30] Voice 10: where somebody who lives in agricultural land with some clever activities gets status and

[1:58:40] Voice 10: put it in a mini hotel.

[1:58:41] Trustee Evans: So I think what we're talking about here is the conditions of use, not the house sizes,

[1:58:46] Trustee Evans: not the other regulations.

[1:58:48] Trustee Evans: Just these conditions of use that when these got put in, that was the wording at the ALR at that time.

[1:58:57] Trustee Evans: What we'd have to do if we were to keep these in here, we'd have to have a staff person dedicated to reviewing that every time it changed.

[1:59:04] Trustee Evans: And we'd have to change it every single time.

[1:59:07] Trustee Evans: So it's already, these regulations are already sitting at the ALR.

[1:59:11] Trustee Evans: We just duplicated them verbatim.

[1:59:13] Trustee Evans: Yeah,

[1:59:13] Voice 10: but what I was asking, how do our bylaws protect us from someone creating a scenario that I just described?

[1:59:23] Trustee Evans: Because our other bylaws state how many buildings you're allowed and what size you're allowed to put.

[1:59:30] Voice 8: Right, so on agricultural land, I'm under the impression you can build a principal residence, and if you want to build anything else, you have to ask for permission.

[1:59:38] Trustee Evans: Correct. And

[1:59:39] Trustee Evans: that will stay. We're not suggesting that that be taken out.

[1:59:45] Voice 10: do they have to stay in your principal residence the way

[1:59:49] Trustee Evans: that this is called

[1:59:50] Trustee Evans: you'd have to apply you'd have to apply through the alr as it's as it stands today

[1:59:55] Trustee Evans: you still have to apply through the alr the alr will then come to us and say does

[2:00:00] Trustee Evans: does this meet with your bylaws?

[2:00:01] Voice 8: We will

[2:00:02] Trustee Evans: then look at the bylaws and say,

[2:00:03] Trustee Evans: well, these bylaws are your bylaws,

[2:00:05] Trustee Evans: and except you've changed your bylaws,

[2:00:06] Trustee Evans: so now do your bylaws and these bylaws apply

[2:00:09] Trustee Evans: because they're contradictory.

[2:00:13] Voice 10: The ALC bylaw

[2:00:18] Voice 10: are going to be the one with the islands

[2:00:21] Voice 10: self-pander LTCs bylaws.

[2:00:24] Trustee Evans: So we've got some other ones in here

[2:00:26] Trustee Evans: that are more restrictive.

[2:00:28] Trustee Evans: And those items that are more restrictive are the ones that I'm suggesting we keep.

[2:00:34] Trustee Evans: The ones that are verbatim, rather than duplicating them, because that's the wording that's going

[2:00:40] Trustee Evans: to be reviewed by the ALR, rather than us taking their bylaws and throwing them in our

[2:00:45] Trustee Evans: bylaws, they're already going to be relieved.

[2:00:48] Voice 10: So basically just ignore it until there's an application, and then the application comes

[2:00:53] Voice 10: comes from the ALC because someone's by a farmer has applied to the ALC for this use

[2:00:58] Voice 10: they send a recommendation to the Islands Trust and the Islands Trust says this doesn't meet our

[2:01:05] Voice 10: violence so it's going to be problematic or it goes to the community so

[2:01:10] Voice 5: agritourism agritourist

[2:01:13] Voice 5: agritourist accommodation is a permitted farm use so there actually wouldn't be an application

[2:01:19] Voice 5: As long as that use complies with the ALC guidelines, policies, they're permitted to do that. But what the ALC says is, although it's a farm use, a local government can further restrict that use. So if I'm not mistaking, what you're saying is, wow, perhaps somebody could come in and have a large building, you know, maybe 10 bedrooms.

[2:01:43] Voice 5: So the LTC could say, yeah, agritourism accommodation is permitted, but that use is only perhaps limited to four people or two bedrooms or whatever.

[2:01:55] Voice 5: So that guarantees that tourist accommodation use would be small.

[2:01:59] Voice 5: So the local government, I'm sorry, the LTC could only have one condition, perhaps stating that maybe you change point 22 to limit that even further.

[2:02:13] Voice 5: which is the number of guests for an agritourist accommodation.

[2:02:18] Voice 5: And then all other conditions, you can leave up to the ALC to regulate.

[2:02:25] Voice 6: Back, because I'm farm, I feel, in my opinion,

[2:02:32] Voice 6: the business about reducing house sizes by the LTC is wrong.

[2:02:38] Voice 6: The Agricultural Land Commission sets out how big a house can be.

[2:02:43] Voice 6: given the acreage size, and in appreciation that some farming families are multi-generational.

[2:02:52] Voice 6: They need help and a family living together.

[2:02:55] Voice 6: And I really do not see, if you have 40 acres, why your house, the maximum, is the same as if you have two acres.

[2:03:06] Voice 6: I think there's a huge difference.

[2:03:08] Voice 6: And that's the way it stands right now.

[2:03:10] Voice 6: So we have approximately, I don't know if there's, I counted them up.

[2:03:15] Voice 6: I think there's nine farms on South Bender Island of various sizes.

[2:03:28] Voice 2: Anybody else on the agricultural topics?

[2:03:31] Voice 2: All right.

[2:03:35] Voice 2: Do we have anything else?

[2:03:42] Trustee Evans: So, from what I was hearing, there wasn't too much concern about keeping the wording

[2:03:54] Trustee Evans: on the groundwater protection.

[2:03:59] Trustee Evans: I think there's more conversation to be had about the dwelling and cottage in height.

[2:04:07] Voice 9: And

[2:04:07] Trustee Evans: I think that there is further discussion to be had on agricultural.

[2:04:15] Trustee Evans: So that's good to know. And shipping containers. I'm not really sure where we sit on shipping containers.

[2:04:25] Trustee Evans: We got a feel for the room where we sat on shipping containers?

[2:04:28] Voice 10: Do you have anything on shipping containers?

[2:04:33] Voice 11: Do we need to have further discussion on this? I wasn't too sure how the room felt.

[2:04:38] Voice 10: I didn't think that we did but yeah because

[2:04:42] Voice 10: basically this will have the restriction

[2:04:48] Voice 10: which is tighter than not mentioning it at all and then any number of places

[2:04:56] Voice 10: yeah

[2:04:57] Trustee Evans: I mean like I said I'm I'm I am in favor of the shipping containers um but I think there

[2:05:04] Trustee Evans: was some people that mentioned so maybe we'll just we'll bring this we'll come back to that

[2:05:09] Trustee Evans: moment we'll have that again let's see what the conversation

[2:05:11] Voice 6: is just one more little question

[2:05:15] Voice 6: um will you be talking about how the size with respect to um farm acreage at another meeting

[2:05:23] Voice 6: yeah when you talk about how the science formed sorry yeah come is

[2:05:31] Trustee Evans: that part of that conversation

[2:05:33] Trustee Evans: We'll be looking at the red line changes at the next CIM.

[2:05:37] Trustee Evans: So the same as what we've done for this meeting, we'll do for house sizes and setbacks.

[2:05:45] Trustee Evans: And we'll have that discussion.

[2:05:46] Trustee Evans: We'll go through it again.

[2:05:48] Trustee Evans: And then we'll start pulling everybody's information together and getting them ready for APC.

[2:05:56] Trustee Evans: That'll be the next stage.

[2:05:59] Trustee Evans: Let's see what we can do.

[2:06:01] Voice 10: just just one more question on the shipping containers why do we have different lot

[2:06:07] Voice 10: category sizes for the containers than say our house sizes like how did they come up with one

[2:06:14] Voice 10: and two to three acres like why couldn't they be the same as our other

[2:06:19] Voice 10: uh lot categories for housing i

[2:06:22] Trustee Evans: think that's a good catch because they had changed the house

[2:06:26] Trustee Evans: um house size categories and then they changed them back but i don't think this got changed

[2:06:32] Trustee Evans: i think that was that was the thing that went

[2:06:36] Voice 10: on there maybe we could put them in line with

[2:06:39] Voice 10: sure with our other lot categories just for sake of clarity nothing else sure i

[2:06:50] Voice 5: just talked to

[2:06:50] Voice 5: not that i want to rush us through but i

[2:06:53] Voice 9: did want to have

[2:06:53] Voice 5: a quick informal chat our next meeting is

[2:06:57] Voice 5: on friday march 26 and i know there's construction on the dip happening but i'm just wondering

[2:07:02] Voice 5: because it is located here in the meeting at 1 p.m do we have 10

[2:07:06] Voice 5: a.m is it 10 it's 1

[2:07:08] Voice 5: p.m actually

[2:07:08] Voice 5: this is one now it's

[2:07:10] Trustee Evans: i can't hear we can't do it well that's the question is when does the

[2:07:14] Trustee Evans: construction loads is that 10 and it doesn't open until two okay so

[2:07:18] Voice 2: we're sending him start

[2:07:20] Voice 2: okay it would be better yeah

[2:07:21] Trustee Evans: tell me yeah okay so it will then it will be a 10 to 2 because

[2:07:26] Trustee Evans: can't go home either

[2:07:27] Voice 1: i'm

[2:07:28] Voice 5: glad i brought that up okay so we'll change the time and yeah i

[2:07:32] Voice 5: thought i had it in this time i think it would have switched to one for whatever reason i think

[2:07:36] Voice 5: two and i can't remember what we'll switch back to ten yeah so that's i'm glad about it okay yeah

[2:07:41] Voice 5: great so that's the big meeting when's the meeting sorry uh friday march 26th

[2:07:54] Voice 5: yeah april april friday april 26th sorry wrong month yes of this year

[2:08:01] Voice 5: at 10 a.m 10 a.m sanchez coming

[2:08:10] Voice 6: and that's how sizes and subnex

[2:08:17] Voice 9: everybody satisfied

[2:08:20] Voice 10: sir and you can tell me not but um i just wanted to add because i've lived most of

[2:08:28] Voice 10: the last 30 years in victoria and now i'm here more um what i'm aware of in victoria

[2:08:37] Voice 10: This is a general concern of densification, I guess.

[2:08:40] Voice 10: So when you're hearing me talk about whatever, it's with that in mind, because even in the

[2:08:46] Voice 10: neighborhood that I was in, and I think Saanich has an official policy, as far as I know now,

[2:08:52] Voice 10: of densification.

[2:08:54] Voice 10: So the residential areas, the suburbs, they're going to be gone at some point.

[2:09:00] Voice 10: It's all going to be townhouses and apartments.

[2:09:04] Voice 10: That's their plan.

[2:09:05] Voice 10: um and it's driven by need for housing people um in the long run and again maybe it's not going to

[2:09:13] Voice 10: affect me in the long run because i won't be here that long but it is a concern for the long to do

[2:09:20] Voice 10: with island trust interests of the islands and it's coming just like climate change is coming

[2:09:30] Voice 10: So we're doing stuff for ourselves each day, or in the present time, but thinking of our,

[2:09:38] Voice 10: whether our children or the new people that are going to be coming here.

[2:09:44] Voice 10: I'd like to think there's a long-range view to this, along with the macro to the micro of it,

[2:09:52] Voice 10: because it's coming a lot faster, like, change is coming a lot faster than we expect,

[2:09:58] Voice 10: and densification is also happening faster than we expect and why would why would not people want

[2:10:05] Voice 10: to live here just like we do um and then say well why do you have the right to have all this

[2:10:11] Voice 10: property and we should be able to just create a subdivision um so that we can be there too and

[2:10:17] Voice 10: have part of that life i grew up in vancouver i moved to victoria to get away from the crowds

[2:10:23] Voice 10: and the traffic.

[2:10:25] Voice 10: And then Victoria has become like a little Vancouver now.

[2:10:28] Voice 10: So I can see the drift where smaller communities

[2:10:32] Voice 10: are gonna get better, near larger communities

[2:10:35] Voice 10: are gonna get pressurized to create more housing.

[2:10:38] Voice 10: And again, back to the water issue

[2:10:41] Voice 10: or increased fire concerns with more people.

[2:10:46] Voice 10: Well,

[2:10:48] Voice 2: I think the big answer is preserve and protect.

[2:10:51] Voice 2: That is our mandate.

[2:10:53] Voice 2: and hopefully it'll be well engaged

[2:10:55] Voice 2: in our trust policy statement hearings

[2:10:59] Voice 2: that come out hopefully very quickly.

[2:11:01] Trustee Evans: We're

[2:11:01] Voice 2: just talking about that setting the guidelines

[2:11:03] Voice 2: for the future.

[2:11:04] Voice 2: And the other thing

[2:11:05] Trustee Evans: that we have to do is we have to write,

[2:11:07] Trustee Evans: and this is actually federally government regulated,

[2:11:11] Trustee Evans: that we have to come up with a 20-year housing report

[2:11:13] Trustee Evans: that we have to create per island

[2:11:15] Trustee Evans: that's going to look for how we plan for growth

[2:11:21] Trustee Evans: on our islands over the next 20 years.

[2:11:25] Trustee Evans: This used to be a five-year plan.

[2:11:26] Trustee Evans: Now it's a 20-year plan.

[2:11:28] Trustee Evans: The way that we have our subdivisions,

[2:11:31] Trustee Evans: you can't subdivide less than two acres.

[2:11:34] Trustee Evans: Most properties can't subdivide like that.

[2:11:36] Trustee Evans: So there's already a lot of rules and regulations

[2:11:40] Trustee Evans: in there to help slow down growth

[2:11:45] Trustee Evans: so that we're not going at the same rate as everyone else.

[2:11:50] Trustee Evans: There's a lot of protections on these islands, and like Chair Maud was saying, it's mandated.

[2:11:58] Trustee Evans: This is why we exist, is to preserve and protect these islands for future generations and for

[2:12:05] Trustee Evans: all the British Columbians, not just ourselves.

[2:12:09] Trustee Evans: So go ahead.

[2:12:11] Voice 4: Sorry, I just wanted to say that federally it's been acknowledged that exposure and being

[2:12:19] Voice 4: Being and experiencing nature is actually beneficial to mental health.

[2:12:25] Voice 4: And so this is at the federal level.

[2:12:28] Voice 4: And so if we're starting, you know, let's just say for whatever reason,

[2:12:35] Voice 4: people disregard the shortage or, you know, the scarcity of resources,

[2:12:40] Voice 4: and we start building subdivisions and it's a Maryhill bypass, right?

[2:12:45] Voice 4: Right. Well, where is this exposure to nature going to come from?

[2:12:50] Voice 4: Where are these people that are we came out of Vancouver?

[2:12:53] Voice 4: Yeah, you go slowly nuts unless you have somewhere to go decompress, experience it, and then you go back.

[2:13:02] Voice 4: And I think that is an angle that for me personally actually makes sense and makes me feel less like some privileged woman

[2:13:13] Voice 4: woman who's just sucking up all the resources. No, this is actually something to experience

[2:13:20] Voice 4: for everybody. So that's my take. Thank you.

[2:13:25] Voice 9: All right. Are we pretty much wrapping up?

[2:13:28] Voice 9: I

[2:13:28] Trustee Evans: think so. Does anyone else have anything they'd like to share?

[2:13:32] Trustee Evans: Thank

[2:13:33] Voice 2: you all for coming to another island.

[2:13:45] Voice 5: I believe in the Pender's post the meeting for April 26th at 1 p.m.

[2:13:51] Voice 5: So please spread the word. We'll send it out by email. We want to make sure the videos will be

[2:13:56] Voice 5: turning them. Thank you.

South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Special Business Meeting 
April 7, 2024 ADOPTED Page 1 of 4 
 
South Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Minutes of Special Meeting 
 
Date:  
Location:  
April 7, 2024 
St. Peter’s Anglican Church Hall, North Pender Island 
 
Members Present: David Maude, Chair  
 Dag Falck, Local Trustee  
 Kristina Evans, Local Trustee  
  
Staff Present: Kim Stockdill, Island Planner  
  
Others Present: There were approximately 30 members of the public present. 
 
1. CALL TO ORDER 
Chair Maude called the meeting to order at 1:00 p.m. He acknowledged that the meeting was 
being held on the territory of the Coast Salish First Nations. 
 
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 
By general consent, the agenda was approved as presented. 
 
3. BUSINESS ITEMS 
3.1 Dwelling height, freshwater catchment regulations, agriculture regulations, shipping 
containers, and other minor amendments  
Island Planner Stockdill briefly described the purpose of the meeting to review proposed 
changes in Bylaw 122, the amending bylaw that makes changes to Land Use Bylaw 114. 
In response to a question raised, it was noted that the reason today’s meeting was not 
being held on South Pender is because, based on past Community Information 
Meetings, more people were expected than could be accommodated at the Fire Hall on 
South Pender and Poet’s Cove was considered to be too expensive.  
A document that highlights the proposed changes was distributed.  
DEFINITIONS  
Island Planner Stockdill reviewed the changes proposed to definitions. The following 
comments were made: 
 
 Definitions related to agriculture were taken directly from the Agricultural Land 
Commission 
A D O P T E D 

  
South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Special Business Meeting 
April 7, 2024 ADOPTED Page 2 of 4 
 “Basement floor area” is a definition that has no effect as it does not show up in 
the Land Use Bylaw 
 The maximum floor area of 70 square metres in the definition of “cottage” was 
removed, and the maximum floor area of 70 square meters was subsequently 
added to each individual zone to allow property owners to apply for a variance 
permit 
 Floor area is measured by the interior walls (the previous calculation was to the 
exterior of the walls) 
 
Discussion with community members ensued and the following comments were made: 
 R-value measurement could be considered when deciding whether a property 
owner’s floor area should be measured by interior or exterior walls, to 
encourage more efficiently insulated buildings 
 Support was expressed for measuring exterior walls as changing the 
measurement of floor area from exterior to interior walls does not make a 
significant difference, and it is complicated to measure the inside of the house 
 Support was expressed for measuring floor area from the interior walls to not 
penalize buildings such as straw bale houses that have thick walls 
 The Capital Regional District that issues the building permits measures floor area 
from the interior walls 
 If floor area measurements are changed from the interior walls to the exterior 
walls and the square footage maximum stayed the same, house size would be 
further restricted 
 Measuring floor area from the interior walls allows for more square footage for 
a dwelling; the difference between measuring floor area from interior to 
exterior walls should be calculated to show the difference – though calculating 
the difference will vary depending on the dwelling 
 This change is more relevant to the house size discussion, which will be 
discussed at the next Community Information Meeting 
 
HEIGHT REGULATIONS 
 
Island Planner Stockdill reviewed height regulations and noted the previous Local Trust 
Committee amended the height regulation for a dwelling or cottage to restrict the 
height of each wall to 9.2 meters; houses built on a cliff or slope that have a wall 
exceeding this will have to apply for a variance. Discussion ensued and the following 
comments were made: 
 Support was expressed for reverting to the original regulation (calculating 
average height by measuring each wall) 
 A variance application gives adjacent property owners an opportunity to express 
their views to Trustees if a new building blocks their view 
 Variances should not be a remedy for bylaws 
 This proposed regulation applies to buildings that are currently constructed, and 
a fair number of them will be rendered legal nonconforming if the bylaw 
remains as it is written 

  
South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Special Business Meeting 
April 7, 2024 ADOPTED Page 3 of 4 
 Neighbours should be given the opportunity to comment on all aspects of a 
build, regardless of height 
 Support was expressed for including a provision that makes all existing 
properties legally conforming 
 
SHIPPING CONTAINERS 
Island Planner Stockdill noted the previous Local Trust Committee added regulations to 
limit the number of shipping containers on a property and ensure they are screened 
from view.  
 Support was expressed for the added bylaws 
 Siting restrictions for shipping containers would be the same as for accessory 
structures 
 Property owners who already have shipping containers would have legal 
nonconforming status provided by the Local Government Act (the Local Trust 
Committee does not regulate use of shipping containers) 
 Shipping containers would be considered an accessory structure and would add 
to lot coverage 
 Shipping containers can be stacked as long as they are under 30 feet in height, 
and would be considered permanent 
 Staff will seek answers for questions raised about how shipping containers are 
restricted for farmers, and whether a permit is required to place one on a farm 
property 
 Support was expressed for not including shipping containers in the bylaw 
 If these regulations were taken out of Land Use Bylaw 114, it would mean there 
would be no regulation on the use of shipping containers 
 On Mayne Island, shipping containers are included as accessory buildings and 
zoning allows for a maximum of two accessory buildings 
 A question was raised about whether shipping containers can be put in line with 
other lot categories for clarity 
 
CISTERN REQUIREMENTS 
Island Planner Stockdill explained changes to regulations requiring cisterns including: 
 the regulations would not apply to cottages 
 “rainwater” would be changed to “freshwater” 
 storage capacity of the cisterns would double 
 
Discussion ensued and the following comments were made: 
 
 There is need for definitions of “freshwater” and “cistern” 
 Support for the change to the bylaw was expressed 
 The regulation does not require the property owner to connect a cistern to a 
dwelling; it is to encourage a property owner to have a cistern 
 Concern was expressed for over-developing the islands, the risk of fire, and 
whether there is sufficient groundwater to support use 

  
South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Special Business Meeting 
April 7, 2024 ADOPTED Page 4 of 4 
 Groundwater availability is a real concern 
 Staff will look into whether the Islands Trust has jurisdiction to restrict the use of 
swimming pools 
 A suggestion was made to change “Groundwater Protection” to “Freshwater 
Protection” 
 Support was expressed for keeping the term “Groundwater Protection.” 
 “Freshwater” is a more broadly encompassing term that applies to rainwater, 
streams 
 A pond is not considered a cistern 
 There should be more support for rainwater collection in cisterns for garden use 
 A question was raised about whether the bylaw should require cisterns to be 
hooked up for use 
 Staff will invite Islands Trust Senior Freshwater Specialist William Shulba to join a 
meeting on South Pender and address questions raised such as what the 
definition of “freshwater” encompasses 
 Concern was expressed about blasting (staff will review bylaw from Salt Spring 
related to soil removal) 
 
AGRICULTURE 
Island Planner Stockdill explained that the intention of the previous Local Trust 
Committee was to align the Land Use Bylaw with Agricultural Land Commission 
regulations and noted the only regulation that was made more restrictive was the 
number of guests allowed for agri-tourism accommodations. Discussion ensued and the 
following comments were made: 
 Agri-tourism accommodation is specific to properties that have farm status 
 Provision 5.5(13) (Agri-tourism buildings or structures are not permitted) should 
be removed from the bylaw 
 Restrictions should be left to the Agricultural Land Commission 
 These provisions may not be worthwhile to include if the Agricultural Land 
Commission is already regulating activities 
 House size, with respect to farms, will be discussed at a future meeting 
 
4. ADJOURNMENT 
By general consent the meeting was adjourned at 3:14 p.m. 
 
_________________________ 
David Maude, Chair 
 
 
Certified Correct: 
 
_________________________ 
Carly Bilney, Recorder