Islands Trust Governance Committee regular meeting, June 20, 2024

[0:00:00] Voice 26: so good morning everyone i hope everybody slept well and welcome back to our thursday uh session

[0:00:06] Voice 26: of trust council here um i just want to take a very brief moment before we go into in camera

[0:00:12] Voice 26: uh rpm chris hutton has brought our two new uh planning staff uh to us to introduce them

[0:00:19] Voice 26: to council today and just like them to introduce i'd like chris just to introduce them so you get

[0:00:23] Voice 26: to meet them formally sure uh

[0:00:25] Voice 15: well mr chair i think for that uh i am pleased to introduce to

[0:00:28] Voice 15: to Oluwasego Garuba and Milad Panegbaer,

[0:00:32] Voice 15: who both joined us in the last few weeks here

[0:00:34] Voice 15: on the Salt Spring Island.

[0:00:36] Voice 15: We're very excited to have them as Planner Ones.

[0:00:39] Voice 15: Milad is a new graduate

[0:00:40] Voice 15: from the Vancouver Island University program.

[0:00:44] Voice 15: And Oluwasego has extensive experience

[0:00:47] Voice 15: in planning in Nigeria,

[0:00:48] Voice 15: and they've been in Canada for a little over a year now.

[0:00:51] Voice 15: They both come with a great depth of experience

[0:00:54] Voice 15: and lived experience.

[0:00:57] Voice 15: We're really excited to have them working here

[0:00:58] Voice 15: on salt spring island on a number of planning issues very

[0:01:02] Voice 26: good thank you very much and welcome

[0:01:04] Voice 26: to the island stuff all right so with that we're going to move directly into in camera and uh we've

[0:01:15] Voice 26: got a guest that uh 12 um 15 i think is the transport candidate uh mr grenville's going to

[0:01:21] Voice 26: talk to us about uh derelict vessels in the lake and um so we'll try and work around that schedule

[0:01:27] Voice 26: we might advance it or have to delay it according to how much conversation we have but let's get a

[0:01:31] Voice 26: motion to go in camera unless there's anything else that's important at this time maybe i'm

[0:01:39] Voice 11: just being a bit angled but those uh pans over there are burning away and they're not going to

[0:01:45] Voice 11: be able to come in and do anything about them um the

[0:01:50] Voice 10: burners under those yeah

[0:01:51] Voice 11: all the burners are

[0:01:52] Voice 11: going and they're not going to be able to fix it

[0:01:54] Voice 14: the shaping dishes will go out they'll extinguish

[0:01:58] Voice 14: well

[0:01:58] Voice 11: they will okay don't worry see i'm being just a bit pathetic okay i

[0:02:03] Voice 26: think that they have

[0:02:05] Voice 26: to be covered in order and actually it looks like sam knows exactly what to do

[0:02:10] Voice 26: all right while we're letting our firefighters over there look after that

[0:02:16] Voice 26: how about we get a motion to go in camera

[0:02:32] Voice 22: I

[0:02:32] Voice 20: move that the meeting be closed to the public in accordance with the Community Charter Part

[0:02:37] Voice 20: 4, Division 3, Section 91C, labor relations or other employee relations, I, the receipt

[0:02:45] Voice 20: and advice that is subject to solicitor-client privilege, including communications necessary

[0:02:49] Voice 20: necessary for that purpose and that CL, Russ,

[0:02:52] Voice 20: Hudson-Piller and staff be invited

[0:02:54] Voice 20: to attend the closed session.

[0:02:56] Voice 26: I'll second the motion.

[0:02:58] Voice 26: Thank you, Ben.

[0:02:59] Voice 26: All the call for the vote, all those in favor?

[0:03:03] Voice 26: Hands down, any opposed?

[0:03:06] Voice 26: Online, nothing opposed.

[0:03:08] Voice 26: Okay, thank you very much.

[0:03:10] Voice 26: I'm sorry, where are we?

[0:03:12] Voice 26: Okay, so we are at new business section 15,

[0:03:17] Voice 26: and I do believe we're at page 276

[0:03:21] Voice 26: of our agenda. Before I get started, I'm just

[0:03:27] Voice 26: going to say, because I've heard it from others, let's

[0:03:31] Voice 26: share the airtime a bit more equitably.

[0:03:35] Voice 26: If you want to say a number of things, let's

[0:03:38] Voice 26: be considerate that there may be other voices that haven't spoken. I'm really asking

[0:03:43] Voice 26: for those voices that haven't spoken and

[0:03:46] Voice 26: and are maybe uncomfortable with speaking please speak up we want to hear your voice okay so 15.1

[0:03:55] Voice 26: governance structure the islands trust working group or subcommittee rfd trustee morrison gabriel

[0:04:01] Voice 26: and borthwick who would like to take the lead on that from that group i

[0:04:08] Voice 20: think if it's okay with

[0:04:09] Voice 20: the chair i'll start and then i think um trustee gabriel has a few comments she'd like to add as

[0:04:13] Voice 20: well uh

[0:04:13] Voice 26: thank you and somewhere in there one of you could make the motion all

[0:04:18] Voice 20: right and we're so

[0:04:19] Voice 20: So I'll start.

[0:04:20] Voice 20: So first of all, I just want to say thank you to the Governance Committee and all the

[0:04:25] Voice 20: work that we put on them.

[0:04:27] Voice 20: This motion is in no way undermining the work that they do.

[0:04:30] Voice 20: And actually, we've had some conversations based on the conversation here at this Trust

[0:04:35] Voice 20: Council about some alterations that we'd like to suggest.

[0:04:40] Voice 20: So my own understanding from being involved in the Governance Review before the Governance

[0:04:44] Voice 20: review getting that established um you know the scope of work for that as you can see in

[0:04:50] Voice 20: the documentation that i provided um that my understanding was that that review was scoped

[0:04:57] Voice 20: to not include suggestions on the act itself however the terms of reference for the governance

[0:05:06] Voice 20: committee you can see are a little bit more potentially include legislative act things

[0:05:12] Voice 20: And when I passed the RFD, passed a number of different trustees who had expressed interest in it, that was pointed out by Trustee Bernardo.

[0:05:20] Voice 20: And so I've adjusted a little bit and, again, adjusted this time.

[0:05:23] Voice 20: So we're going to make a recommendation to reaffirm that the Governance Committee does have control of legislative suggestions because that is a little bit vague in the terms of reference.

[0:05:37] Voice 20: and so just to make start from that ground that we are clear that the

[0:05:43] Voice 20: Governance Committee does actually have responsibility to make suggestions

[0:05:46] Voice 20: around that and so there's a motion that I've sent over and then we'll go to a

[0:05:54] Voice 20: second motion after that so let's just start with that first one and so I move

[0:06:00] Voice 20: oh sorry before I do that Lisa do you want to add anything else before we

[0:06:05] Voice 20: Okay. So I move that the trust council reaffirm the role of the governance committee to advise

[0:06:10] Voice 20: trust council on the framework of the Iowa's trust act.

[0:06:17] Voice 26: Seconded by Sam.

[0:06:19] Voice 20: Was there

[0:06:22] Voice 26: something online?

[0:06:24] Voice 20: No, she was seconding.

[0:06:25] Voice 26: All right. So we already got that seconded. Thank you. You wish to speak to it further?

[0:06:31] Voice 20: And so just the only thing I would say further is this motion is needed just because of the history

[0:06:37] Voice 20: of coming into the Governance Committee.

[0:06:39] Voice 20: Some of us that sat on the council in the prior term

[0:06:43] Voice 20: have a different view potentially.

[0:06:46] Voice 20: I actually, it doesn't matter to me

[0:06:48] Voice 20: which way we vote on this.

[0:06:49] Voice 20: I'm good to go ahead and affirm this.

[0:06:51] Voice 20: I just want clarity.

[0:06:52] Voice 20: I want 100% clarity that this is where

[0:06:55] Voice 20: we're sitting the responsibility.

[0:06:58] Voice 26: Trustee, any questions or comments on the motion?

[0:07:04] Voice 11: I'm in support of this motion.

[0:07:06] Voice 11: I think the governance committee, we've had some issues

[0:07:10] Voice 11: that we circle around and around how the operations

[0:07:15] Voice 11: and legislative governance intersects.

[0:07:19] Voice 11: And so I'd like to see this happen.

[0:07:22] Voice 23: Trustee Briardo.

[0:07:28] Voice 25: When Trustee Morrison sent out her initial email,

[0:07:31] Voice 25: I went back to look at the terms of reference

[0:07:33] Voice 25: and I've had a look at the terms of reference

[0:07:37] Voice 25: and I guess I have some sympathy

[0:07:41] Voice 25: from where Trustee Morrison is coming from,

[0:07:43] Voice 25: but the terms of reference are quite clear to me i mean they're explicit so i don't see a need for

[0:07:48] Voice 25: this resolution because the role of governance council in terms of addressing all governance

[0:07:53] Voice 25: issue whether internal or external is quite explicit and clear already in terms of reference

[0:07:59] Voice 25: because the council has spoken on this and i don't see the need for the resolution just

[0:08:05] Voice 25: you may believe yeah

[0:08:07] Voice 24: it's okay i think joe just percy bernardo just answered my question

[0:08:11] Voice 24: and no other speakers

[0:08:18] Voice 26: let's get our hands up after we can get it i

[0:08:23] Trustee Patrick: was actually just trying

[0:08:24] Trustee Patrick: to find the terms of reference quickly on our website on the website so that's not a good sign

[0:08:28] Trustee Patrick: uh it would be nice to know what does it say in the in the terms of reference so so response from

[0:08:36] Voice 26: trustee morrison on that question so

[0:08:38] Voice 20: the rfd does cite um some of the different pieces and reference

[0:08:42] Voice 20: the terms of reference so that the issue of concern that was con what that was um um the

[0:08:47] Voice 20: The clarification is that terms of reference on the classic, they don't have it in front

[0:08:58] Voice 20: of me, but

[0:09:00] Voice 27: it was trying to get that terms of reference up on the screen.

[0:09:02] Voice 27: What do we put on the screen?

[0:09:03] Voice 27: Yeah.

[0:09:08] Voice 3: Well, page 277 of the agenda package.

[0:09:12] Voice 27: Link in the document as well.

[0:09:17] Voice 26: Page 277.

[0:09:18] Voice 26: Thank you.

[0:09:20] Voice 26: Ooh, can we get it bigger?

[0:09:23] Voice 17: and

[0:09:23] Voice 26: we don't need the bump at the top

[0:09:25] Voice 20: thank

[0:09:26] Voice 26: you okay back to you just and

[0:09:30] Voice 20: if you go to 2.3.1

[0:09:32] Voice 20: uh scroll down to the yeah to the governance committee if we can scroll down to the

[0:09:37] Voice 20: governance committee 2

[0:09:38] Voice 27: .3.1 no

[0:09:40] Voice 20: keep just keep going it's fine

[0:09:50] Voice 20: yeah the 2.3.1 was the policy just give me a second sorry i this is a little hard to do on

[0:09:55] Voice 20: the fly for when i'm not in control of the it's an

[0:09:58] Voice 19: appendix attachment

[0:10:00] Voice 20: thank

[0:10:01] Voice 19: you attachment five

[0:10:03] Voice 20: right down at the bottom okay so the um governance committee the the area where i think the clarity

[0:10:11] Voice 20: is needed is um provide number four providing recommendations to trust council for legislative

[0:10:18] Voice 20: reform initiatives to improve trust council governance and management and in the original

[0:10:23] Voice 20: original scope of work when we were talking about the governance review and moving into that work

[0:10:29] Voice 20: that original conversation in trust council was around amendments to other acts not that

[0:10:38] Voice 20: islands trust act and so that's item number four what i i'm not saying that i disagree that the

[0:10:45] Voice 20: islands trust act should be including there i'm asking us to be very explicit about it with this

[0:10:49] Voice 20: motion so that we're clear because the scope of work originally excluded the islands trust

[0:10:57] Voice 20: act from consideration in the governance review but the terms of reference for the committee

[0:11:02] Voice 17: included

[0:11:03] Voice 20: legislation

[0:11:06] Voice 26: so that's an answer to a question from the lord patrick unless this clarification will

[0:11:12] Voice 26: and go to the next speaker, Trustee Getty.

[0:11:15] Voice 2: Well, the original motion is vague,

[0:11:23] Voice 2: and I'm not sure if it's intended

[0:11:26] Voice 2: to be limiting or expanding.

[0:11:29] Voice 2: This point here on number four is wide enough

[0:11:35] Voice 2: that we can look at any piece of legislation.

[0:11:39] Voice 2: So the terms of reference for the review was limited,

[0:11:44] Voice 2: but not for the subsequent governance committee.

[0:11:49] Voice 2: So I think that whoever designed the terms of reference

[0:11:53] Voice 2: for the governance committee wanted it to be

[0:11:55] Voice 2: as wide as possible so that we could try to figure out

[0:11:59] Voice 2: what it was that we wanted to study and work on

[0:12:01] Voice 2: and make recommendations about.

[0:12:03] Voice 2: If the intention of this motion today is to limit it

[0:12:08] Voice 2: to the Islands Trust Act, which seems to be specific,

[0:12:12] Voice 2: specific, then I think that is problematic, and I think that clarification of whatever

[0:12:24] Voice 2: the discussion was at the previous Council's meeting about the development of the Trust

[0:12:31] Voice 2: Council, what ended up is something that is wide enough for us to work with any piece

[0:12:37] Voice 2: of legislation.

[0:12:43] Voice 26: I'm going to take that as a point of view, and let's continue on other points

[0:12:49] Voice 26: of your comments and you've got the speakers.

[0:12:52] Voice 26: Trustee Berardo.

[0:12:55] Voice 25: Similar to what Trustee Getty is mentioning.

[0:12:57] Voice 25: If we look at the actual-

[0:12:58] Voice 25: Can I have your phone please?

[0:12:59] Voice 26: Sorry, Joe.

[0:13:01] Voice 25: If you look at the actual language,

[0:13:03] Voice 25: let's just read it out to ourselves.

[0:13:07] Voice 25: Providing recommendations to trust council

[0:13:08] Voice 25: for legislation reform initiatives

[0:13:10] Voice 25: to improve trust council governance and management.

[0:13:14] Voice 25: Whatever people's beliefs or understandings at the time,

[0:13:17] Voice 25: the question that was before trust council

[0:13:20] Voice 25: when this was approved was very clear with respect to that item i don't know what other

[0:13:27] Voice 25: legislation except for the island's trust act and regulation are relevant to improving trust

[0:13:34] Voice 25: council governance and management there are no other statutes that inform that question it's

[0:13:40] Voice 25: only the island's trust act and the regulation that's what section four is all about that's why

[0:13:45] Voice 25: why I'm saying this motion's not necessary.

[0:13:47] Voice 25: It's as explicit as you want it to be.

[0:13:52] Voice 5: No other speakers?

[0:13:55] Voice 26: I would like to have you provide.

[0:13:59] Voice 20: Frankly, I'm a little confused

[0:14:00] Voice 20: why reaffirming something for clarity is a challenge.

[0:14:05] Voice 20: I'm not limiting that to the Islands Trust Act

[0:14:07] Voice 20: the motion in no way says that.

[0:14:09] Voice 20: It says that just that they can advise on that.

[0:14:12] Voice 26: Thank you.

[0:14:14] Voice 26: Okay, thank you.

[0:14:15] Voice 26: So seeing no other speakers on the motion that's on the floor, if we can get the motion back up on the screen.

[0:14:23] Voice 26: Thank you very much. And so there's your motion. I'm going to call the vote on the motion on the screen.

[0:14:28] Voice 26: All those in favor. 17, 17 in favor.

[0:14:43] Voice 26: Please lower your hands and I'll look for those opposed. Please raise your hand.

[0:14:48] Voice 26: Those opposed on the screen. That's two opposed.

[0:14:53] Voice 26: and so therefore that carries um you have further motions associated with your business item here

[0:15:01] Voice 26: all

[0:15:02] Voice 20: right the second motion has been altered slightly just to make it simpler based on all

[0:15:07] Voice 20: the conversations at this trust council um so if we can put that motion and i've talked through the

[0:15:13] Voice 20: this motion with my um co-sponsors

[0:15:15] Voice 26: so for clarity this is not what is in the package

[0:15:17] Voice 26: It's simpler.

[0:15:19] Voice 20: No, it's going to be up on the screen.

[0:15:22] Voice 20: So that the Trust Council establish a voluntary subcommittee on the framework of the Islands Trust Act reporting to the Governance Committee to provide options for a response to the province and possible strategies for the advocacy of this effort.

[0:15:35] Voice 26: Okay, do I have a seconder for the motion?

[0:15:38] Voice 26: Lisa Gavro, thank you very much.

[0:15:40] Voice 26: Trustee Martin, you wish to speak to your motion.

[0:15:42] Voice 20: All right.

[0:15:43] Voice 20: Right. So this original RFD in general was brought forward just because of frustration on the timing of like, you know, moving things along on a response to the province.

[0:15:54] Voice 20: Having had all the conversations with like, listen to Adam, like we actually named many of the issues that have been brought up around reconciliation interactions with what, how we, the process by which we consider recommendations to the province.

[0:16:11] Voice 20: and so we feel like this could help provide a little capacity to the governance committee to

[0:16:17] Voice 20: respond between now or to bring back a letter or some whatever that response might look like

[0:16:22] Voice 20: response options through the governance committee to trust council in september so that we might

[0:16:28] Voice 20: consider how to get that forward in the next election um trustee gabriel i think also has

[0:16:33] Voice 20: some comments you'd like to add to

[0:16:37] Voice 23: gabriel thank

[0:16:38] Voice 8: you um i first flushed with this i was a little

[0:16:41] Voice 8: bit uh troubled by the rfd but reading through it this is something that's been in my mind for

[0:16:46] Voice 8: quite a while uh we are living in a different world right now and uh before we move forward

[0:16:51] Voice 8: with any type of changing to our governance structure we need to be consulting with nations

[0:16:56] Voice 8: and we need to set up a framework of how to do that we heard those conversations yesterday

[0:17:01] Voice 8: in the strategic planning a lot of the directives are around how do we work better with nations

[0:17:06] Voice 8: I think that this RFD is the seed that we can plant, where we can start to really kind of hash that out, figure it out.

[0:17:21] Voice 10: I'm just thinking more about the mechanics of this.

[0:17:24] Voice 10: Is this a subcommittee

[0:17:26] Voice 11: that works in the public realm, which I think is required?

[0:17:31] Voice 11: How does that work, and is it supported?

[0:17:35] Voice 11: Those kind of things, is that being considered?

[0:17:37] Voice 11: so

[0:17:41] Voice 20: in the rfd we actually discuss a couple of the different ways in which that could come to be

[0:17:47] Voice 20: this does not need to be in the public realm because it's in the governance committee so

[0:17:54] Voice 20: it's a working group there are two existing working groups right now in the trust like

[0:17:58] Voice 20: working on different things underneath different committees the idea is just to add capacity to

[0:18:03] Voice 20: the governance committee to do some of the writing and like crunching of different materials and help

[0:18:08] Voice 20: like shuffle it into the governance committee for them and

[0:18:12] Voice 26: they're not decision making they're

[0:18:13] Voice 26: making referrals so that's the important point okay justy patrick

[0:18:18] Trustee Patrick: okay just trying to unravel

[0:18:21] Trustee Patrick: and understand i think our goal or or at least i guess we haven't spoken about it publicly but

[0:18:28] Trustee Patrick: after hearing from uh emily wilson the other day is that we hope to issue um or vote on in

[0:18:37] Trustee Patrick: September time period, a request to the

[0:18:41] Trustee Patrick: province to do a review. And if I were to

[0:18:45] Trustee Patrick: analyze where did we fall down on our last review that we voted on

[0:18:50] Trustee Patrick: two years ago, strongly, is the accompanying letter.

[0:18:54] Trustee Patrick: Last time we passed a motion saying we asked the chair

[0:18:58] Trustee Patrick: to send a letter on behalf, and we didn't attach

[0:19:02] Trustee Patrick: that letter. I think the difference this time is that Trust Council needs

[0:19:06] Trustee Patrick: needs to prepare that letter and that's part of the vote.

[0:19:08] Trustee Patrick: So they're asking someone to go write the letter,

[0:19:11] Trustee Patrick: we're approving the letter that's being sent.

[0:19:13] Trustee Patrick: So there's a letter to be drafted.

[0:19:16] Trustee Patrick: And I think that's the work to be done.

[0:19:18] Trustee Patrick: And the timeline is September.

[0:19:21] Trustee Patrick: So this motion is missing the timeline

[0:19:22] Trustee Patrick: of when we wanna have the letter written by.

[0:19:26] Trustee Patrick: Right now, it is sitting on the work list

[0:19:28] Trustee Patrick: of the governance committee.

[0:19:30] Trustee Patrick: And so I think, yes, it's how.

[0:19:33] Trustee Patrick: How do we, how and who we want to work on that letter. And I think there is an opportunity of, you know, I don't know what that is, but it's how, you know, I think the governance committee could use a couple of different mechanisms, draft the letter and then share it out for everyone to see, or do we want to have a smaller working group work on the letter?

[0:19:50] Trustee Patrick: and i think those are the conversations that need to happen at the governance committee to figure

[0:19:54] Trustee Patrick: figure out how to resource that so um i would like to see a deadline and i'd like to see that we say

[0:20:00] Trustee Patrick: you know we are you know going to vote on a letter um which would contain whatever request we're

[0:20:06] Trustee Patrick: making so

[0:20:08] Voice 26: i would look for an amendment to the motion if that's the intent i'm going to sure

[0:20:15] Voice 26: okay

[0:20:16] Voice 20: maybe i just comment on that first so the intent of this amendment is not to overrule the

[0:20:21] Voice 20: the governance committee, which is an elected committee of council on the timelines that they

[0:20:25] Voice 20: have, it is to provide capacity to them to do their work.

[0:20:32] Voice 18: Trustee Borland.

[0:20:37] Voice 21: I'd like to hear

[0:20:38] Voice 21: from the governance committee. In principle, it seems like a good idea, but I worry that it will

[0:20:45] Voice 21: set the timeline back because people have to get up to speed. I think the governance committee,

[0:20:50] Voice 21: I think the chair yesterday, Chair Getty, spoke to the fact that they were on the case and they have a meeting, I think, on the 18th of July.

[0:21:01] Voice 21: And it seems like, you know, the previous request, which Adam read out yesterday, covered most of what would go forward again.

[0:21:13] Voice 21: I would worry that, you know, that this would morph into a, the strategy would become a redesign.

[0:21:24] Voice 21: You know, this is our, these are our ideas about how you should, you know, redesign the structure of the Islands Trust.

[0:21:31] Voice 21: So that's my concern. So I would ask the governance committee to respond as to whether they think it's a great idea or not.

[0:21:40] Voice 21: thank you without

[0:21:45] Voice 26: putting the chair on the spot having not had that conversation with the committee

[0:21:49] Voice 26: um in terms of your report that came to council two days ago where's the committee at

[0:22:00] Voice 26: i

[0:22:04] Voice 21: have a suggestion well maybe we could just say that on the meeting in july that um the

[0:22:16] Voice 21: the Governance Committee would optionally, yeah.

[0:22:20] Voice 26: We have to be careful not to micromanage the committee

[0:22:22] Voice 26: and its work, so I'm going to turn to the chair.

[0:22:25] Voice 2: Yeah.

[0:22:26] Voice 2: We have a special meeting planned for Monday,

[0:22:31] Voice 2: a Zoom meeting, and we're going to be talking

[0:22:33] Voice 2: about the Code of Conduct.

[0:22:36] Voice 2: And then we've got a regular business meeting scheduled

[0:22:39] Voice 2: for, I think it's July 12th, and the work plan for that,

[0:22:45] Voice 2: we haven't figured out the agenda but there's work in progress so my understanding of the

[0:22:54] Voice 2: submissions from adam olsen and some of the work that we did on the strategic planning is that

[0:23:00] Voice 2: the group might very well want to and hope well might very well want to move up this question of

[0:23:08] Voice 2: of the letter to the province

[0:23:11] Voice 2: so that we are within the timeframe of the election

[0:23:16] Voice 2: and have election questions ready for candidates

[0:23:20] Voice 2: and to have something ready for whoever the new minister

[0:23:24] Voice 2: would be in October or November

[0:23:26] Voice 2: and try to influence their letters of administration

[0:23:29] Voice 2: or whatever they call it that the ministers get

[0:23:31] Voice 2: so that the Islands Trust is part of that.

[0:23:34] Voice 2: that. So the timing, I think, is something that we will, we haven't been paying close

[0:23:42] Voice 2: attention to. And I think we will now, in terms of certainly what Adam Olson said. But

[0:23:49] Voice 2: at the beginning of the meeting, we talk about the timeframe and I make recommendations and

[0:23:57] Voice 2: provide background material with staff in terms of the various briefings, that work

[0:24:03] Voice 2: that we want to do so i'll be recommending i think that we work on this um i don't i can't

[0:24:12] Voice 2: predict whether or not there'd be a lot of opposition to it and if so you know how bogged

[0:24:16] Voice 2: down we might get but um and it if that were the case then i think that there would be a call out

[0:24:22] Voice 2: for some sort of uh feedback and assistance um but i i don't i don't have a clear picture at

[0:24:31] Voice 2: this point what the lay of the land would be for july meeting dr

[0:24:37] Voice 27: elliott thank you next speaker yeah

[0:24:39] Voice 27: uh

[0:24:46] Voice 10: i'm in support of the intent of this motion to do some thinking uh and to uh support the work of

[0:24:54] Voice 10: the governance committee if that's what they wish so how we approach this with regional planning

[0:25:00] Voice 10: committee when we were looking at a piece of work tiny home advocacy for instance and we didn't

[0:25:06] Voice 10: think we had enough information we did a call out to trustees do you want to be part of a working

[0:25:10] Voice 10: group to do some thinking on this and so i i'm kind of a little bit struggling with whether this

[0:25:17] Voice 10: is a subcommittee of the governance committee which maybe should be struck by that body and

[0:25:24] Voice 10: they ask for assistance or the original motion was a voluntary working group which was to include

[0:25:32] Voice 10: first nations and other people so that that's one question the second issue issue is just to

[0:25:40] Voice 10: clarify that there this is just going to be a working group of trustees and we're going to be

[0:25:44] Voice 10: limited to this response and request to the province for help um and reaffirming the original

[0:25:53] Voice 10: resolution and bringing that back to trust council for support this isn't going to be canvassing

[0:25:59] Voice 10: indigenous peoples and bringing

[0:26:02] Voice 11: in other folks to inform us let's

[0:26:09] Voice 27: get a response from the movers

[0:26:12] Voice 27: so so the response from the mover so

[0:26:16] Voice 20: the quick response on that is um i was never very comfortable

[0:26:21] Voice 20: with the idea that trust council does the full work on like what the structure should be and

[0:26:29] Voice 20: and all of that because we are not fully in control

[0:26:33] Voice 20: of that level of reconciliation work with the act.

[0:26:37] Voice 20: I do think that it's a downloading issue

[0:26:40] Voice 20: that the province has done

[0:26:41] Voice 20: and that we need to push it back to them really effectively.

[0:26:43] Voice 20: And to Trustee Boland's comment, there is no intent

[0:26:48] Voice 20: and it's the purview of the governance committee,

[0:26:50] Voice 20: how they like handle this, but it's the will of council

[0:26:55] Voice 20: if we actually basically we all want to see governance move forward in some way and we're

[0:27:00] Voice 20: all like wanting to make sure that the governance committee has the resources and isn't overwhelmed

[0:27:04] Voice 20: with 10,000 other things but there's no intent here to define structure because the whole point

[0:27:11] Voice 20: of the brief is saying that it's inappropriate for us to do that without First Nations involvement

[0:27:15] Voice 20: and that that is the responsibility of the province to establish that if we're reviewing that.

[0:27:21] Voice 20: Well,

[0:27:25] Voice 23: having sat in all of these meetings and from the previous iterations of the governance committee and the original letter, and I don't know your intentions here, is whether you are simply modernizing those six requests in an update of that, or whether you're providing insight associated with those six requests to say, look at this particular portion for the minister.

[0:27:51] Voice 23: The second takes more work and is a more nuanced effort that gives the minister some place to go.

[0:28:00] Voice 23: The first iteration was indicating challenges and then asking the minister to consider how to resolve those questions.

[0:28:08] Voice 23: I think you have to ask yourselves that question.

[0:28:11] Voice 23: One would require quite a bit of work.

[0:28:13] Voice 23: The other would be a modernization and a reiteration of the original request.

[0:28:17] Voice 23: us and i don't know which way you want to go and i couldn't divine from that from um the mla's

[0:28:22] Voice 23: comments which which way he thought better but i think that will drive how much time it takes

[0:28:27] Voice 23: and i know the governance committee is is grappling with how to work through those six

[0:28:31] Voice 23: things and see whether you're um where you sit on them just because so

[0:28:40] Voice 3: yeah member of the governance

[0:28:42] Voice 3: committee here just uh for clarity um i think based on what we've heard from the mla and uh

[0:28:50] Voice 3: Trust Council's response in the strategic planning exercise yesterday.

[0:28:55] Voice 3: There's definitely, it's clear to me, there's some strong interest from Trust Council on this.

[0:29:01] Voice 3: Just looking at the timeline, Chair Getty mentioned we have a July 12th meeting.

[0:29:07] Voice 3: We have a September 9th meeting, which is shortly before Trust Council.

[0:29:12] Voice 3: I think, from my perspective, I think it's, I'm certainly open to,

[0:29:18] Voice 3: and it might be very useful to have um some extra minds uh working on this but i would

[0:29:25] Voice 3: like to suggest that um for the utility and the timeline um the report should go to governance

[0:29:35] Voice 3: committee like august 30th so that we have some time for the september meeting to digest it

[0:29:42] Voice 3: and make it useful especially if we're trying to work towards this timeline around the election

[0:29:47] Voice 3: thank you

[0:29:49] Voice 25: justin there's a lot going on here with different thoughts here

[0:29:55] Voice 25: first of all let's address uh an important point that the ca brought up

[0:30:00] Voice 25: about whether or not we're just talking about changing the date on the original

[0:30:05] Voice 25: stuff that was developed two years ago and sending it in or whether we're going to

[0:30:09] Voice 25: uh amend it i think what happened i think there's a informally talking to people in governance

[0:30:15] Voice 25: committee and elsewhere and certainly people on the governance committee have talked about this

[0:30:20] Voice 25: forever the strong consensus is it has to be the second item it has to the

[0:30:27] Voice 25: the previous request got bounced

[0:30:30] Voice 25: because we didn't provide details.

[0:30:32] Voice 25: We have to provide details.

[0:30:33] Voice 25: We have to provide an argument

[0:30:35] Voice 25: as to why the review is required.

[0:30:36] Voice 25: So it's gonna take that work.

[0:30:37] Voice 25: And that's the context in which Trustee Morrison's

[0:30:40] Voice 25: suggestion is coming from.

[0:30:43] Voice 25: And one of the remarks that entire agreement

[0:30:47] Voice 25: with Trustee Morrison is that it is not for us,

[0:30:51] Voice 25: either in the Governance Committee or Trust Council

[0:30:53] Voice 25: to attempt to propose to the province

[0:30:57] Voice 25: province what the new structure should be the console that the necessary level of consultation

[0:31:03] Voice 25: with First Nations that has to happen with respect to that is beyond our capacity because it's it's

[0:31:08] Voice 25: getting into constitutional questions there's other things that are beyond our capacity because

[0:31:13] Voice 25: this is a constitutional local governance issue it does require some pretty deep expertise in

[0:31:20] Voice 25: terms of navigating through all the legislation if you're going to make amendments to the islands

[0:31:25] Voice 25: trust act i think we can state the problem we can wave in a general way in the direction

[0:31:33] Voice 25: and particularly in keeping with where emily olsen was at which is that um we have to rethink the

[0:31:40] Voice 25: entire structure of this in order to enable reconciliation in a meaningful way and that

[0:31:45] Voice 25: has to be prominent in the letter but it's not the only thing now in terms of timing in terms

[0:31:49] Voice 25: of the work of the last governance committee meeting um i disagree somehow with chair getty

[0:31:56] Voice 25: i think there's a pretty broad consensus in the in at the committee that we need to be

[0:32:01] Voice 25: doing this in fact at the last governance committee meeting we did set some priorities

[0:32:06] Voice 25: we scheduled a meeting a special meeting to deal with the code of conduct because it was presented

[0:32:12] Voice 25: to us basically as and i didn't require some initial examination before it comes to trust

[0:32:18] Voice 25: council we didn't have time to review it we're going to review it discuss it and eventually just

[0:32:22] Voice 25: kick that over to trust council it's not a hell of a lot of work for us to do on the governance

[0:32:25] Voice 25: committee so we've scheduled that special meeting just to take care of that housekeeping without

[0:32:29] Voice 25: having to deal without interrupting the regular work and at that meeting there's a strong emphasis

[0:32:35] Voice 25: that the thing that we ought to do next and ought to put our energy into is this letter to the

[0:32:40] Voice 25: province so we're wouldn't say we're ahead of the curve but you know we're kind of on it and um

[0:32:47] Voice 25: In fact, we had assigned ourselves the task of everybody for the July meeting coming to

[0:32:53] Voice 25: that meeting with some homework, which was that we should have some written information

[0:32:58] Voice 25: where we had laid down our particular thoughts as committee members of what should be in

[0:33:04] Voice 25: that letter, what were the areas to be explored.

[0:33:07] Voice 25: So that's on the work agenda already.

[0:33:09] Voice 25: already now uh so uh I I don't see us necessarily getting bogged down in terms of process here it's

[0:33:18] Voice 25: like we need to simply direct our attention in the time available and make this thing happen now

[0:33:25] Voice 25: going to the heart of the matter which is the direction that Trustee Morrison is going in I

[0:33:29] Voice 25: think it's it's it's very helpful but again I don't think the emotions are particularly necessary

[0:33:35] Voice 25: necessary and um I worry about the formality of the thing you know form a subcommittee then you

[0:33:41] Voice 25: have a report they need to do this and you you know what kind of support are you going to have

[0:33:45] Voice 25: um this issue is a big deal I mean as a result of the strategic planning session yesterday you

[0:33:53] Voice 25: know uh making an approach to the province was identified by far as the number one priority and

[0:33:58] Voice 25: getting that done and that's like right in front of us right now the reality is whatever work

[0:34:03] Voice 25: product that governance community comes up with. It's going to come back to trust council because

[0:34:06] Voice 25: trust council has to deliberate and decide it. That means the maximum amount of input that comes

[0:34:12] Voice 25: into governance committee before we bring it to trust council can only aid the debate at trust

[0:34:18] Voice 25: council. It'll make it more efficient. People have reservations, questions, perspectives. If

[0:34:23] Voice 25: they've already contributed them to governance committee, then that discussion is going to be

[0:34:28] Voice 25: more efficient and it's frankly going to be more sophisticated. My suggestion is we don't need a

[0:34:32] Voice 25: subcommittee if anybody if they want to form a group and they get together and they have a bunch

[0:34:39] Voice 25: of ideas they want to submit them to the governance committee for consideration please do it we'll

[0:34:44] Voice 25: take it we'll take it seriously consign it to writing okay i mean just talking to us and you

[0:34:51] Voice 25: know that's not going to cut it but if you have some you know real thoughts that you've worked

[0:34:56] Voice 25: out in terms of what should be in that letter what the approach should be laid out for us and

[0:35:02] Voice 25: don't have you can be part of a group that does it you can do it individually we'll simply take that

[0:35:07] Voice 25: i mean you're all our colleagues and we're doing the work for you but it's not our work it's our

[0:35:13] Voice 25: collective work and if you want to contribute to this important thing i think everybody should feel

[0:35:17] Voice 25: welcome to do it and the sooner you get it to us sorry the sooner you get it to judy but what

[0:35:22] Voice 25: better because then that gives us even more working material to work with to develop this response

[0:35:27] Voice 25: wants. So I welcome maximum contributions, but I don't think we need the formality of a committee

[0:35:32] Voice 25: to do it. Trustee Patrick.

[0:35:37] Trustee Patrick: Thank you, Joe. That was a pretty good suggestion, and I do support

[0:35:42] Trustee Patrick: that idea. I think this body can set the governance committee's priorities. That's our job. We can

[0:35:48] Trustee Patrick: tell them that this is a priority, and we want them to do it, and we want them to do it by a

[0:35:52] Trustee Patrick: certain date. This body can take that action if it wishes to. So I think I like that. We can either

[0:35:59] Trustee Patrick: did do that the committee could either ask to do a working group if it finds it needs that but i

[0:36:04] Trustee Patrick: like the suggestion he just said everyone this this really except the big difference this time

[0:36:08] Trustee Patrick: is we need to write the letter and approve a letter uh not just a concept but the actual

[0:36:14] Trustee Patrick: words that are going trustee

[0:36:17] Voice 4: harris thank you a bit of a regurgitation here but yes it's clear

[0:36:22] Voice 4: at the strategic um planning session yes yesterday that we made uh it pretty clear that um the focus

[0:36:28] Voice 4: would be this letter to the province it's something that i've been talking about um since

[0:36:31] Voice 4: day one is this restructuring um you know i've been troubled that we're you know we've been

[0:36:38] Voice 4: dealing with other things that have taken up time um one being the ex-officio voting deal and which

[0:36:44] Voice 4: is there was clear directives from last term that the positions were to be non-voting and yet the

[0:36:49] Voice 4: governance committee has been tied up with us

[0:36:50] Voice 5: um

[0:36:52] Voice 4: and so we have a meeting coming up that the

[0:36:58] Voice 4: code of conduct meeting i would suggest that that be gone um because the code of conduct was already

[0:37:05] Voice 4: um okay so i have a point of order i need you to stick to the motion i am sticking to the motion

[0:37:13] Voice 4: i'm not in favor of this because thank you we need to be working on on them on the letter to

[0:37:18] Voice 4: the province i've made that clear i wanted to do that from the beginning um i would suggest that

[0:37:23] Voice 4: this next meeting for the code of conduct be done to work on the

[0:37:27] Voice 26: community to

[0:37:28] Voice 4: establish its own agenda

[0:37:30] Voice 4: trustee harris and again it's already open for trustees to weigh in completely they can email

[0:37:37] Voice 4: the whole committee part of the committee whatever it is um i'll leave it there thank you

[0:37:44] Voice 4: thank you

[0:37:49] Voice 10: and uh uh thank you trustee harris you brought up one of the points i was going to make

[0:37:54] Voice 10: trustee harris um i um was just saying that you brought up one of the points i was going to make

[0:38:00] Voice 10: um thank you joe you put did most of the work for me i don't i was going to say do we really

[0:38:06] Voice 10: need this motion um after the work we've done at this meeting uh after we've been hearing from the

[0:38:13] Voice 10: chair and the vice chair or or the members of the thank you yes of the um governance committee um

[0:38:21] Voice 10: And I wonder, and because I take your point, Lisa Goldbrow, about the relations with First Nations, but I don't see First Nations in this motion, so it looks a little vague to me.

[0:38:35] Voice 10: me and uh so i wonder is this motion needed or should we table it uh or um it elected

[0:38:44] Voice 10: governance committee can call for volunteers if they want a group of volunteers or they can call

[0:38:50] Voice 10: for input as we've heard from uh committee members now and as i've heard from judy getty back in

[0:38:56] Voice 10: um september 2023 she started saying send us your topics if you have things you think we should be

[0:39:04] Voice 10: you're discussing so i did i'm i created i wrote it up and it's in anyway just to let you know

[0:39:10] Voice 10: they put it on the agenda um uh they welcome input i think they feel properly encouraged

[0:39:16] Voice 10: maybe we could move on thank you

[0:39:18] Voice 4: be great got the evidence thanks

[0:39:24] Voice 7: um i am not in favor of

[0:39:29] Voice 7: of this motion.

[0:39:31] Voice 7: I would prefer that since this item is already

[0:39:35] Voice 7: in the governance committee priority list

[0:39:38] Voice 7: that we permit the governance committee to deal with it.

[0:39:42] Voice 7: And should they decide that they need external volunteers

[0:39:45] Voice 7: to join them, they can send that call out.

[0:39:47] Voice 7: I understand that we can make that choice

[0:39:50] Voice 7: to pull it back from governance committee,

[0:39:52] Voice 7: but I'm not comfortable doing that.

[0:39:54] Voice 7: I think governance committee is doing a good job

[0:39:55] Voice 7: and I would like this to remain with governance committee

[0:39:57] Voice 7: and should they need the help, they will ask for it.

[0:40:00] Voice 7: So I'm not in support of this motion, thank you.

[0:40:04] Voice 3: Dr. Peters.

[0:40:07] Voice 3: So I think he's been evolving us

[0:40:09] Voice 3: as we're having the conversation

[0:40:10] Voice 3: and I want to thank everyone for their thoughts.

[0:40:13] Voice 3: One thing that occurs to me

[0:40:14] Voice 3: is in terms of the governance committee

[0:40:16] Voice 3: and the work of this proposed working group or subcommittee

[0:40:20] Voice 3: is that whatever product might come out of that group,

[0:40:26] Voice 3: I think my perspective at governance committee

[0:40:29] Voice 3: committee is I would want the some time for staff to do a little bit of work digesting that before

[0:40:35] Voice 3: it got back to the committee I don't know about the timing of that I think that's we're starting

[0:40:41] Voice 3: to run into um we're starting to run into capacity and timing issues there and I'm I'm getting a

[0:40:46] Voice 3: little less supportive of the committee than I was perhaps earlier or subcommittee um and just uh in

[0:40:55] Voice 3: in conversation outside of the meeting yesterday um with the ceo there was a mention of the of the

[0:41:01] Voice 3: utility of considering hiring some professional assistance in terms of shopping this to the

[0:41:06] Voice 3: province i know that's still on the motion but i just wanted to raise that as um perhaps an

[0:41:12] Voice 3: important factor as we think about how this advances to the province so i'm going to leave

[0:41:16] Voice 3: it there thank you trustee thanks

[0:41:20] Voice 21: uh two points number one thank you to trustee morrison and her

[0:41:25] Voice 21: her co-sponsors for putting this together because it has generated a great conversation

[0:41:31] Voice 21: regardless of whether you support it or not I think we've had a really good conversation about it

[0:41:36] Voice 21: and the second thing is would it not be a good idea in the next week or two to come up with a

[0:41:44] Voice 21: timeline with real deadlines because we're inclined to go from one meeting to the next to the next

[0:41:50] Voice 21: And we need to work back from any estimated deadlines that we have at the back end.

[0:41:55] Voice 21: And if extra resources or extra meetings are required to make sure that we meet those deadlines, as suggested by Adam Olsen yesterday, then we could start to pull more resources in.

[0:42:08] Voice 21: I'm really really really keen and it's why I've always supported the idea of we should be looking

[0:42:13] Voice 21: at a full calendar all the time of understanding what the deadlines are with respect to which

[0:42:20] Voice 21: meetings and not having to rush things through um so yeah working back from whatever the estimated

[0:42:26] Voice 21: timeline dead deadline is I think that would be terrific thanks sure

[0:42:34] Voice 26: welcome oh I wasn't expecting

[0:42:38] Voice 26: to be on the list. You know, our table yesterday there with Trustee Morrison, in fact, we talked

[0:42:46] Voice 26: about strategy and that in order to be successful in this ask of the province, we need the strategy.

[0:42:51] Voice 26: But I believe the governance committee that can be discussed at the governance committee

[0:42:56] Voice 26: with respect to the work that is envisioned in this. So let's, if we can, let's move to a vote.

[0:43:02] Voice 26: If there's any other speakers. The

[0:43:03] Voice 23: last speaker is Trustee Morrison.

[0:43:05] Voice 23: Thank

[0:43:06] Voice 20: you. So one of the reasons that I put this RFD, and originally the RFD, my thinking about it was actually to make it an RFB, a briefing, just for a conversation, just to pull all of these different pieces of work together in one spot.

[0:43:20] Voice 20: So I really thank you all for the conversation and for the, you know, various writing and everything that folks have done in response to it. It helps push my thinking too.

[0:43:29] Voice 20: I'm happy for this to just like fail its motion and go forward to the governance committee

[0:43:34] Voice 20: I myself will be advocating as an individual trustee to the province in every possible way

[0:43:42] Voice 20: I can between now and January as they start to take up that work and I encourage every other

[0:43:47] Voice 20: trustee to do it in their individual role and for us collectively through the governance committee

[0:43:51] Voice 20: to work on that thank you no

[0:43:56] Voice 26: other speakers on the motion then on the screen I'm going to call

[0:44:01] Voice 26: the vote all those in favor

[0:44:05] Voice 20: no no

[0:44:07] Voice 26: oh my gosh

[0:44:08] Voice 20: so i'm

[0:44:10] Voice 26: going to call one more time just in case all

[0:44:11] Voice 26: those in favor okay those opposed no

[0:44:16] Voice 5: but yeah yeah

[0:44:20] Voice 26: that's right

[0:44:22] Voice 26: that is unanimous and i want to echo

[0:44:24] Voice 26: um uh uh the sentiment said this has been a great conversation and the the committee which

[0:44:32] Voice 26: which is sits here,

[0:44:33] Voice 26: governance committee has heard that conversation.

[0:44:36] Voice 26: So that's fantastic.

[0:44:37] Voice 26: Let's does that conclude that business item?

[0:44:41] Voice 25: Oh, I want to repeat what I said before.

[0:44:44] Voice 25: Send us the stuff that you care about.

[0:44:48] Voice 25: It's important.

[0:44:49] Voice 25: It will help us.

[0:44:50] Voice 25: It's not a burden for us.

[0:44:51] Voice 25: It will assist us in clarifying our own thoughts

[0:44:54] Voice 25: about how we prioritize things

[0:44:56] Voice 25: and the structure of the letter

[0:44:57] Voice 25: and what goes into it.

[0:44:58] Voice 25: So the urgency you're all feeling,

[0:45:00] Voice 25: translate that into written material you send to us.

[0:45:03] Voice 25: Thank you.

[0:45:03] Voice 25: Okay. Thank you for that last

[0:45:07] Voice 26: note. I'm going to go to 15.3, and this is the ex officio members

[0:45:12] Voice 26: of Trust Council Committee to be non-voting. And Trustee Boland, you brought that to us. There is

[0:45:18] Voice 26: a motion there. I'll ask you to make that motion, but do you want to introduce it first or just go

[0:45:24] Voice 26: straight to the motion?

[0:45:27] Voice 21: If I go straight to the motion, can I just speak briefly to it afterwards?

[0:45:31] Voice 21: absolutely

[0:45:31] Voice 26: sure

[0:45:33] Voice 21: okay uh so the motion is that trust first of all thank you david marler for

[0:45:38] Voice 21: assisting me in making this much clearer uh that trust council request staff to amend trust

[0:45:46] Voice 21: council policy 2.3.1 council committee systems by replacing section b84 in its entirety with

[0:45:55] Voice 21: with 8-4 ex-visio members of council committees and select committees,

[0:46:00] Voice 21: shall be non-voting members and shall not be included in determining quorum of a meeting.

[0:46:08] Voice 26: Do I have a seconder for the motion?

[0:46:10] Voice 26: Trustee Evans, thank you.

[0:46:12] Voice 26: So, I wish to speak to your motion, Trustee.

[0:46:15] Voice 21: Sure.

[0:46:16] Voice 21: I was a very active observer of the months leading up to the election

[0:46:21] Voice 21: and the discussion around the formation of the Governance Committee,

[0:46:25] Voice 21: which was quite a significant step in evolving reform of various kinds in the Trust.

[0:46:33] Voice 21: And, you know, there was a very explicit desire, and it wasn't just around the Governance Committee,

[0:46:41] Voice 21: but other committees as well, exploring different options and ways of forming those committees.

[0:46:47] Voice 21: So the Governance Committee began that path.

[0:46:50] Voice 21: And then through a series of missteps, the clarity around the position of ex-voting, there were sort of incremental small missteps, was lost.

[0:47:03] Voice 21: And the actual clarity around what exactly ex officio means, now we all know, but for quite a while, it was quite confusing.

[0:47:13] Voice 21: nobody really understood it ex officio means that you have a position by virtue of your position in

[0:47:21] Voice 21: another situation and uh it it can mean in robert's rules it actually says that it's non-voting but

[0:47:30] Voice 21: in the trust policies um that is not stated other than for the chair so it is a little bit of a

[0:47:39] Voice 21: model and i think that this will provide clarity across all of the policies around committee

[0:47:47] Voice 21: systems so i would really uh welcome support for this and um yeah that's it thank you

[0:48:00] Voice 26: this is a complex topic and there's lots of information however in perhaps you are confused

[0:48:10] Voice 26: huge because i think you misspoke there robert's rule does allow ex officio voting and our policy

[0:48:18] Voice 26: is different than robert's rules and that's part of where the difficulty comes in but nonetheless

[0:48:25] Voice 26: your motion is legitimate and valid it's been moved and seconded and thank you for bringing

[0:48:31] Voice 26: it to us i'm going to go to the floor to ask for speakers on the motion okay so

[0:48:39] Voice 2: this came up a

[0:48:41] Voice 2: a couple of times in the governance committee has taken an enormous amount of

[0:48:45] Voice 2: time and effort,

[0:48:46] Voice 2: both in terms of discussions at the committee and research behind it.

[0:48:51] Voice 2: And while I think it's fair that we welcome people's ideas and suggestions,

[0:48:57] Voice 2: I think that we also need to have some balance in terms of the,

[0:49:06] Voice 2: the importance in the end result. And I, that's the,

[0:49:10] Voice 2: the part that is sort of niggling

[0:49:12] Voice 2: in terms of the amount of time that I've spent on this.

[0:49:17] Voice 2: So it comes up in the November 23 Governance Committee

[0:49:21] Voice 2: when we're talking around and around and around

[0:49:24] Voice 2: about the governance review.

[0:49:26] Voice 2: And Chair Luckham put up two motions,

[0:49:31] Voice 2: one that we get the staff report on the governance review

[0:49:34] Voice 2: and another one that we organize a session

[0:49:39] Voice 2: for the trust council to talk about the governance review which has been suggested mildly um and we

[0:49:46] Voice 2: kept talking around it and um i think chair luckham was a little bit um anxious in terms of

[0:49:53] Voice 2: the time and just put it in a motion we voted on it there were um i think all seven of us or eight

[0:49:59] Voice 2: of us in uh present and there were seven with one dissenting vote um later in the meeting when we're

[0:50:06] Voice 2: We're talking about a completely different subject and we've got basically an hour set aside for each one.

[0:50:12] Voice 2: There's a motion that, a question with respect to whether or not an ex officio member can put forward a motion.

[0:50:21] Voice 2: And David Marlowe was present at our meeting and he said he wasn't entirely sure and that he would look it up in Robert's wills and he thought that it certainly hadn't been the practice.

[0:50:33] Voice 2: this?

[0:50:34] Voice 21: Point of order, if I may. We're talking about the situation that brought the issue to

[0:50:44] Voice 21: the surface, but the RFD is much more general than that particular instance. It's about

[0:50:53] Voice 21: the entire committee system policy.

[0:50:58] Voice 26: Thank you. Right. So that's a point of order. And let's

[0:51:01] Voice 26: keep the conversation to the topic at hand which is the ex officio position yes clarity okay so

[0:51:09] Voice 2: after that meeting um both david marler and myself started looking at the details in robert's rules

[0:51:17] Voice 2: and what it was about ex officio so if you google it an ex officio is someone who is entitled to a

[0:51:24] Voice 2: position as a result of their office that's the official part so the fact that the chair is allowed

[0:51:29] Voice 2: to sit on all of the committees and the robert's rules say that all the rights and privileges

[0:51:35] Voice 2: are granted to that person unless it's specifically limited by a bylaw so we have a bylaw that's the

[0:51:43] Voice 2: 2.3.1 the policy statement that specifically limits the chair to be an ex-officio without voting

[0:51:51] Voice 2: and not to be considered part of the quorum so we don't have to worry about not having a quorum at

[0:51:56] Voice 2: the meeting if the chair doesn't show up and whatever the reasoning was in terms of not

[0:52:01] Voice 2: allowing the chair a vote i my suspicion is i would think it's logical that if the chair has

[0:52:09] Voice 2: a vote on a committee and a vote on executive and a vote at trust council that's triple dipping so

[0:52:17] Voice 2: So that's one of the other bylaws says that members of the executive committee

[0:52:27] Voice 2: that are sitting on other subcommittees are specifically allowed to vote.

[0:52:33] Voice 2: And we, I might have that wrong.

[0:52:36] Voice 2: Is it maybe not allowed?

[0:52:38] Voice 2: At any rate, Tim Peterson is a member of the executive.

[0:52:43] Voice 2: He's also on the governance committee, but he wasn't appointed.

[0:52:46] Voice 2: He was elected.

[0:52:47] Voice 2: So it's a Tim's vote is a gray area, but that's not any in dispute.

[0:52:55] Voice 2: So it came up next in the January meeting.

[0:52:59] Voice 2: It came up again in the January meeting when.

[0:53:04] Voice 2: Yes.

[0:53:05] Voice 2: Okay.

[0:53:06] Voice 2: But this whole thing has to do with whether or not the ex officio member from the Islands Trust Conservancy and the bylaw with respect to that position says nothing about voting, says nothing about quorum, simply says it's an ex officio member because they're representing the Conservancy.

[0:53:28] Voice 2: So the challenge at the January meeting was that a vote should be set aside.

[0:53:37] Voice 2: I ruled as chair that I was, because the bylaw didn't say anything, I was going to accept that person as having full rights and privileges.

[0:53:44] Voice 2: So what has evolved from that is this RFD to say that all ex officio members of council committees should be non-voting.

[0:54:00] Voice 2: and there's a great long history that's been taken about all of the matters that were decided

[0:54:06] Voice 2: and discussed at the last council meeting and it was presented to me originally as it's a simple

[0:54:13] Voice 2: housekeeping matter and it shouldn't take any time at all and we'll just rubber stamp whatever

[0:54:18] Voice 2: the previous council said well that's a red flag in front of me I'm sorry but you know I have a

[0:54:24] Voice 2: a really hard time just accepting what the somebody's report of what the discussion was

[0:54:30] Voice 2: and what the intentions were and everything else so i think it's up to this council to discuss

[0:54:35] Voice 2: whether or not ex officio members have the right to vote and specifically when it comes to

[0:54:44] Voice 2: i understand one set of reasoning with respect to the chair that we may or may not agree with

[0:54:49] Voice 2: but I think there's a different argument with respect to the ex-officio member from the

[0:54:54] Voice 2: Conservancy and if that's not too far off topic I'd like to speak to that as well.

[0:55:01] Voice 27: I'm going to go out knowing what I'm going to say. There are pretty broadly

[0:55:07] Voice 27: standing because this motion does not actually make it in public at least today the appointee

[0:55:13] Voice 27: of the chair of the committee who was execution but we're digging into the weeds to the deeper

[0:55:22] Voice 27: i'm okay most people understand

[0:55:24] Voice 26: the subtleties of it and maybe what we should do is just go

[0:55:27] Voice 26: to comments and questions and then we could maybe move this forward to some kind of a vote all right

[0:55:33] Voice 17: Yeah.

[0:55:36] Voice 5: Trustee Maberly.

[0:55:40] Voice 5: Thank you.

[0:55:41] Voice 24: I'm a little puzzled in a sense.

[0:55:46] Voice 24: We know that committees are elected.

[0:55:49] Voice 24: I have sort of a few questions.

[0:55:52] Voice 24: Sub-committees are where you put your names forward and you're appointed.

[0:55:57] Voice 24: Yeah, sorry.

[0:55:58] Voice 24: And we have ex-officio members on those committees,

[0:56:01] Voice 24: and we've just heard that perhaps we're unsure whether the chair has a vote

[0:56:06] Voice 24: or not have a vote.

[0:56:07] Voice 24: if the chair does not have a vote yeah and we have other situations where we have somebody on

[0:56:14] Voice 24: executive committee sitting on a on a committee and and they also may or may not have a vote

[0:56:20] Voice 24: they do have a vote there not the chair yeah okay yeah and i'm just trying to help it appears to me

[0:56:26] Voice 24: that any other ex-official member only has a vote at the discretion of the chair of that committee

[0:56:34] Voice 24: committee, from what I've heard. That seems like what I heard.

[0:56:40] Voice 27: It would be best to clarify.

[0:56:48] Voice 5: Sorry, Dave.

[0:56:50] Voice 22: Thank you. So the only concern here is the

[0:56:53] Voice 22: ex-officio for the Islands Trust Conservancy on the Governance Committee.

[0:56:58] Voice 22: So right now, the policy does not

[0:57:02] Voice 22: withdraw any privileges, so ex-officio

[0:57:06] Voice 22: under Robert's rules would have the ability to vote and have full

[0:57:09] Voice 22: rights like any other member. The policy

[0:57:13] Voice 22: with respect to the chair is very clear. It withdraws

[0:57:17] Voice 22: the privileges of voting.

[0:57:21] Voice 22: So this is only dealing right now

[0:57:25] Voice 22: with one ex-official position on the governance committee.

[0:57:31] Voice 22: I

[0:57:32] Voice 24: think I understand that.

[0:57:35] Voice 24: I mean, the fact of the matter is

[0:57:36] Voice 24: is I think one thing this motion does is provide some clarity and if if nothing

[0:57:46] Voice 24: else we certainly need that because it's kind of unclear to me and you know the

[0:57:54] Voice 24: chair of the governance committee explained all of the nuances I think

[0:58:00] Voice 24: clarity is good I think I'm going to support the motion that's very thank

[0:58:09] Voice 25: you

[0:58:10] Voice 25: David um yeah I think uh we need to have some more facts here um to help the trust council um

[0:58:19] Voice 25: that the the there's a really important thing that has has not been disclosed you had which

[0:58:25] Voice 25: is that whole genesis for this uh was as the chair uh Getty had pointed out was a discussion over

[0:58:33] Voice 25: whether or not the ITC representative should be entitled to vote and there was some confusion

[0:58:37] Voice 25: about that and unfortunately trustee middleton isn't here but uh much of this well that's great

[0:58:44] Voice 25: but i hope trustee middleton steps in here because his um his issue was uh he was uh present at the

[0:58:54] Voice 25: time and participated in the the select committee that uh helped or the original governance committee

[0:58:59] Voice 25: the the group at least that that devised and proposed the whole idea of the governance

[0:59:05] Voice 25: committee and the original intention, according to Trustee Middleton, was that on this particular

[0:59:13] Voice 25: committee, first of all, it should be comprised of elected members and only the elected members

[0:59:23] Voice 25: should vote. And that was his understanding of the original intention. And then in the event,

[0:59:28] Voice 25: we've discovered that as drafted the uh policy content explicitly excludes the chair from voting

[0:59:38] Voice 25: on that principle but does not exclude the itc rep who is appointed that's the issue and the way

[0:59:47] Voice 25: the proposition that was presented by trustee middleton is this was an oversight in when this

[0:59:52] Voice 25: policy was drafted because the original intention was only have voting members the only voting

[0:59:57] Voice 25: members ought to be the elected ones.

[1:00:00] Voice 25: and the chair of Trust Council and the ITC rep are there as observers and to contribute their

[1:00:04] Voice 25: views, but not to make decisions because this is a Trust Council thing. It's about Trust Council

[1:00:09] Voice 25: governance, not ITC governance. That's the proposition that led to all this back and forth,

[1:00:15] Voice 25: and as Chair Diddy pointed out, she didn't have much choice. The policy as written

[1:00:23] Voice 25: makes the chair non-voting, is silent about the ITC rep. The approach that we have elsewhere

[1:00:30] Voice 25: where is in that ex officio members do get to vote and on that basis as written under the policy the

[1:00:37] Voice 25: itc rep is entitled to vote but that according to tracy middleton and some others is contrary

[1:00:42] Voice 25: to the original intention which is why this motion is here is to clear up what was an oversight or a

[1:00:48] Voice 25: mistake in the drafting of the original policy now you can have different views about whether

[1:00:54] Voice 25: you want to proceed or not in that direction but that's the background dusty patrick decided i'd

[1:01:06] Trustee Patrick: like may raid's word muddle um we seem to muddle into everything uh the governance committee is new

[1:01:15] Trustee Patrick: we're cutting our teeth and learning this committee as we go along um yes it was different

[1:01:21] Trustee Patrick: in that we have the selected feature to it it's still a committee that's advisory it only advises

[1:01:28] Trustee Patrick: to this body so the decisions aren't binding that it makes it's just an advisory committee to this

[1:01:33] Trustee Patrick: body for whatever reason we had appointed the someone from the trust conservancy board

[1:01:41] Trustee Patrick: why did we do that well is the governance committee i think we always treated like the

[1:01:47] Trustee Patrick: trust trust council and trust conservancy are two absolutely different beasts and they do have some

[1:01:52] Trustee Patrick: differences but they're all under the same act does our governance that we're concerned about

[1:01:57] Trustee Patrick: out apply to the work that we do and the support we do to the trust conservancy so i think it

[1:02:04] Trustee Patrick: probably was an oversight in the beginning and maybe it wasn't intended i know the governance

[1:02:08] Trustee Patrick: report specifically left it out we still scratch our heads maybe we should have looked at the

[1:02:12] Trustee Patrick: governance of the trust conservancy i don't see why i think we should hear from the trust

[1:02:17] Trustee Patrick: conservancy i think the trust conservancy brings value the ones one vote that it brings to the to

[1:02:23] Trustee Patrick: to our committee.

[1:02:26] Trustee Patrick: And I just think it's okay to let the trust conservancy

[1:02:29] Trustee Patrick: have a vote at the governance committee,

[1:02:32] Trustee Patrick: because we should be concerned about the trust conservancy

[1:02:36] Trustee Patrick: and the governance related to that.

[1:02:41] Voice 23: Trustee Morrison.

[1:02:45] Voice 20: Thank you.

[1:02:46] Voice 20: I am for this motion.

[1:02:47] Voice 20: I think it brings clarity to our understanding

[1:02:50] Voice 20: of who sits in what seat.

[1:02:53] Voice 20: When we talk about ex-officio voting on other committees,

[1:02:57] Voice 20: the other committees actually are specifically stated who are the membership of those committees

[1:03:04] Voice 20: on particular roles on other committees whatever they're specifically stated in the policy so those

[1:03:10] Voice 20: are not so like for instance on the financial planning committee the chair of the regional

[1:03:16] Voice 20: planning committee the trust programs committee all sit on that but they're specified they're not

[1:03:19] Voice 20: ex officio in that way they are specified positions so yes of course they're voting

[1:03:24] Voice 20: their specified rules um so i i like the clarity that this motion brings um and i also like the

[1:03:32] Voice 20: fact that it when we look at our committee structure we are clear about who sits on that

[1:03:39] Voice 20: what i would recommend is if this motion passes i would love to see a suggestion if this this

[1:03:46] Voice 20: council wants it to include a member of the islands trust committee on the governance committee

[1:03:51] Voice 20: explicitly, but I do think

[1:03:53] Voice 20: that that is a different motion than this one.

[1:03:57] Voice 17: Bessie Evans.

[1:04:01] Voice 7: For myself,

[1:04:03] Voice 7: I think when we

[1:04:04] Voice 7: voted to bring in

[1:04:07] Voice 7: these positions to sit

[1:04:08] Voice 7: on governance committee, my

[1:04:10] Voice 7: understanding was that they were going to be non-voting

[1:04:13] Voice 7: at the time, which is why I voted

[1:04:14] Voice 7: for it. Having a

[1:04:16] Voice 7: member from Ireland's Trust

[1:04:20] Voice 7: Conservancy

[1:04:21] Voice 7: come and sit

[1:04:22] Voice 7: on the governance committee or any committee who is not an elected official i because it could be

[1:04:32] Voice 7: um right now it's not but i mean going forward like i can't remember how everything was worded

[1:04:39] Voice 7: but it's coming from it it's from an external body so we've got an external member from an

[1:04:45] Voice 7: external body even though they are a trust member having a vote and and for me it's like what we've

[1:04:53] Voice 7: got members that sit on other committees and it's bringing in these these different things and

[1:04:59] Voice 7: having a vote that and i'm saying this really badly and i know i am um that that is raising

[1:05:05] Voice 7: more of a concern is is having external bodies having a vote on a standing committee with us so

[1:05:13] Voice 7: i'm i'm in favor of this motion because that wasn't the intent when i voted that person in

[1:05:22] Voice 7: um so i'd like to go back to that wasn't my understanding when they got voted in

[1:05:26] Voice 7: this clarifies that i'm in

[1:05:29] Voice 26: favor okay so let's clarify some of that understanding and david

[1:05:33] Voice 26: mauler i think that would like to clarify that yeah

[1:05:38] Voice 22: so section 118 of trust council's policy

[1:05:43] Voice 22: says that one of the two trust council elected members of the islands trust conservancy

[1:05:48] Voice 22: is an ex-official member of the governance committee so it can only be a trustee on the

[1:05:53] Voice 22: governance committee right speakers

[1:06:00] Voice 5: trustee middleton thank

[1:06:05] Trustee Middleton: you and thank you for your

[1:06:07] Trustee Middleton: accommodation and excuse me my absence yesterday had a medical situation with our youngest come up

[1:06:12] Trustee Middleton: but she's fine and uh and uh so now i'm um able to join so um yeah honestly i think what became

[1:06:22] Trustee Middleton: a drafting error i regret very much because uh it seems to have cast uh any of the work of the last

[1:06:30] Trustee Middleton: trust committee into the into the shadow of the untrustworthy according to uh chair getty which

[1:06:35] Trustee Middleton: is unfortunate because i like to think that we build on the work of subsequent councils and we

[1:06:40] Trustee Middleton: become better for it um absolutely it was the intent i can say unequivocally that the um itc

[1:06:50] Trustee Middleton: chair or ITC member of the governance committee was to be non-voting. This position was added

[1:06:58] Trustee Middleton: later. We considered very, very carefully the makeup of the governance committee as the interim

[1:07:07] Trustee Middleton: governance, as the working group, the governance working group. It was somewhat controversial that

[1:07:16] Trustee Middleton: that we reserve a space for executive and the chair

[1:07:21] Trustee Middleton: because that was sort of the norm.

[1:07:24] Trustee Middleton: And what was very groundbreaking

[1:07:26] Trustee Middleton: and may just seem quite germane and matter of fact now,

[1:07:29] Trustee Middleton: but the fact that we had a committee that was elected,

[1:07:32] Trustee Middleton: this was a huge, huge issue and a huge achievement.

[1:07:36] Trustee Middleton: We all felt at the time that we created clear guidelines

[1:07:40] Trustee Middleton: guidelines for how how um a governance committee is is chosen by by the larger Council that reports

[1:07:49] Trustee Middleton: to it is true that the work of the governance report specifically excluded the analyst trust

[1:07:56] Trustee Middleton: Conservancy and that was done for I think at the time good reasons there's slightly different

[1:08:01] Trustee Middleton: governance structure to their board um but when we actually began to write the statutes that got

[1:08:10] Trustee Middleton: terms of reference for the Governance Committee, it was raised that a linkage between the Island's

[1:08:16] Trustee Middleton: Trust Conservancy and the Governance Committee of the Island's Trust Council be made. And so

[1:08:23] Trustee Middleton: that was debated and agreed to. And as Mr. Marlow just pointed out, that was the term used.

[1:08:33] Trustee Middleton: The trustees drafted, because of course it was in the motion, the terms of reference,

[1:08:37] Trustee Middleton: And there were two bullet points. One, the ITC representative does not constitute a quorum. And two, they don't have voting rights. In the redrafting for the policies where all the policies were rewritten, governing all the committees to reference the governance committee, those two bullet points were left out.

[1:08:55] Trustee Middleton: It honestly is as simple as that. There was no nefarious denial of rights or no back and forth on limitation of the ITC's influence.

[1:09:04] Trustee Middleton: We should have caught that those two bullet points were missed out and that it's so in this confusion and the concern of the chair on this topic, I regret.

[1:09:14] Trustee Middleton: But honestly, I can say that is what happened. And I believe I'm borne out by the minutes and by all meeting materials prepared.

[1:09:23] Trustee Middleton: prepared and and so you know with with regret I I certainly apologize for for what has happened

[1:09:28] Trustee Middleton: but I do think that this motion which I support corrects that situation thank you thank you trustee

[1:09:38] Voice 26: Middleton for that clarity and I could just say that we concur with that our omission that occurred

[1:09:43] Voice 26: uh thanks

[1:09:48] Voice 21: I just want to say that um in addition to the minutes uh there is a webinar recording

[1:09:54] Voice 21: which explicitly covers the conversation and it is very expressive it's not oblique

[1:10:00] Voice 21: the discussion and all trustees could go for election for those positions um including the

[1:10:09] Voice 21: trustees who are who sit on the islands trust conservancy board so those two points i wanted

[1:10:15] Voice 21: to say and with respect to the ex officio non-voting it it applies only to that position

[1:10:23] Voice 21: right now but for the future it could apply in many other instances um so that was the

[1:10:30] Voice 21: recommendation from uh david marler that it would be uh not limited but made as a broad

[1:10:39] Voice 21: clarification thank you that'd

[1:10:44] Voice 23: be fast thank

[1:10:48] Voice 10: you um and thanks everybody for all the detail i'm um

[1:10:53] Voice 10: I'm not going to be voting in favor of this motion

[1:10:57] Voice 10: because to me, I'm wondering, is this reconsideration?

[1:11:03] Voice 10: Because it did come to trust council and I was, you know, to approve.

[1:11:08] Voice 10: And I was happy to see that Analyst Trust Conservancy was included on the list.

[1:11:14] Voice 10: And that was part of the reason that I voted.

[1:11:16] Voice 10: So anyway, I think that this motion is about exclusion.

[1:11:20] Voice 10: exclusion it's excluding islands trust conservancy uh would be the result of a vote in favor so i

[1:11:27] Voice 10: can't do that because the governance uh committee is responding on behalf of the whole lines trust

[1:11:35] Voice 10: which includes uh in my view um the islands trust conservancy to a degree different degrees

[1:11:44] Voice 10: all right i am i think it depends on the committee like we have different kinds of committees

[1:11:48] Voice 10: and we can form different kinds of committees.

[1:11:52] Voice 10: This one is mostly elected.

[1:11:54] Voice 10: The other ones are volunteers.

[1:11:56] Voice 10: Some are big, some are little, it depends on the needs.

[1:11:59] Voice 10: We could form new committees and now we have Zoom.

[1:12:03] Voice 10: So the request and the bit about determining a quorum.

[1:12:06] Voice 10: I'm going to stick

[1:12:07] Voice 26: to the motion on the floor.

[1:12:09] Voice 10: The bit about determining a quorum of a meeting,

[1:12:12] Voice 10: I don't think is important anymore

[1:12:15] Voice 10: more uh because with zoom people pop in and out

[1:12:19] Voice 26: it still is relevant just finished i'm just about

[1:12:23] Voice 26: done well let's just stick to the motion um and so that's why i'm not voting in favor thank you

[1:12:30] Voice 26: right okay thank you so on a point on your point of order the fact are

[1:12:38] Voice 7: the facts this is not an

[1:12:39] Voice 7: exclusion when we voted in the ex-officio members it was explicit that they were going to be

[1:12:46] Voice 7: being non-voting and it's not a collection.

[1:12:50] Voice 26: Okay.

[1:12:51] Voice 26: And I just want to say that this is also

[1:12:54] Voice 26: not a reconsideration.

[1:12:55] Voice 26: This is a clarity of amending a policy,

[1:12:59] Voice 26: not a reconsideration of the original decision.

[1:13:04] Voice 26: So let's continue on the speaker's list.

[1:13:07] Voice 23: Okay, we have three speakers left.

[1:13:09] Voice 23: Trustees Getty, Bernardo and Patrick.

[1:13:12] Voice 23: Okay.

[1:13:13] Voice 26: Getty, Bernardo.

[1:13:14] Voice 26: whatever

[1:13:20] Voice 2: the discussions were in what was it september of 22 um the last council in terms of

[1:13:29] Voice 2: whether or not this was an oversight or whether something that was so very very important got left

[1:13:34] Voice 2: off the final motion that was voted on and wasn't picked up and wasn't noticed there may have been

[1:13:40] Voice 2: some members that council who wanted it off there may have been others that um it's hard to go back

[1:13:48] Voice 2: and look at all of that debate and all of those details and that's the part that i find um it's

[1:13:54] Voice 2: not as trustee middleton has suggested some um untrustworthy decision making or um it's just

[1:14:03] Voice 2: there's when we go through a debate there's a lot of pros and cons um i don't think it's

[1:14:09] Voice 2: the responsibility of this council to go back over and listen to all of those

[1:14:13] Voice 2: tapes and to read all of the material we have this motion in front of us now

[1:14:17] Voice 2: And the upshot of this is that the person that's going to be affected is the elected representative from the trust who's sitting on the Islands Trust Conservancy and is then appointed by the Conservancy to sit on the governance committee.

[1:14:36] Voice 2: committee we make decisions about policy we make decisions about the letter to the province we make

[1:14:42] Voice 2: decisions about we sit on the financial planning and all of the things that are important to the

[1:14:49] Voice 2: Conservancy as well as to this group one of the things that we talked about in the strategic

[1:14:55] Voice 2: planning was that we needed to be closer to the Islands Trust Conservancy this is disenfranchising

[1:15:01] Voice 2: disenfranchising the representative from the Conservancy. And that's a board that has

[1:15:07] Voice 2: three members of the public that are appointed, at least one of them appointed by the province.

[1:15:11] Voice 2: So we're putting it on their agenda to talk about how Trust Council has disenfranchised. I'm not

[1:15:17] Voice 2: sure that that politically is a good idea. So I don't

[1:15:21] Voice 26: want to cut you off, but I think that that

[1:15:24] Voice 26: is a different decision. And that was pointed out that if we want to have some other mechanism of

[1:15:30] Voice 26: of enabling that person, that's a different decision

[1:15:33] Voice 26: than changing this policy here today.

[1:15:36] Voice 26: So let's talk about the policy we're changing today.

[1:15:38] Voice 26: You're on a great note that what we're talking about

[1:15:40] Voice 26: is changing this policy, correcting this policy.

[1:15:43] Voice 26: Justin Bernardo.

[1:15:56] Voice 25: Yeah, I really hope we can avoid getting,

[1:16:01] Voice 25: spending too much more time on this and also not,

[1:16:04] Voice 25: you know, not charging it with any kind of emotional energy

[1:16:07] Voice 25: because I think really this should be simply dealt with

[1:16:10] Voice 25: at the level of principle and at the mechanics

[1:16:13] Voice 25: we're trying to clean up the mechanics of it uh and i think we're entitled to you know take what

[1:16:19] Voice 25: trustee middleton says at face value and it's been confirmed by the chair and the staff's looked at

[1:16:25] Voice 25: it it appears within an oversight the question is what do we do about it now and in response

[1:16:32] Voice 25: some trustees are talking about you know vaguely orbiting around a general question of principle

[1:16:38] Voice 25: that the ITC ought to have a voice.

[1:16:41] Voice 25: Okay, but the ITC does have a voice

[1:16:43] Voice 25: in the policy as written.

[1:16:44] Voice 25: The ITC member gets to come, contribute, speak.

[1:16:49] Voice 25: But the original intention was not to vote.

[1:16:52] Voice 25: The question is, what's the logic behind that?

[1:16:57] Voice 25: It's not a question of disenfranchising a body

[1:17:00] Voice 25: when that body wasn't supposed to be enfranchised

[1:17:02] Voice 25: in the first place.

[1:17:04] Voice 25: The key thing, in my mind at least,

[1:17:06] Voice 25: is Trust Council, if you look at the Islands Trust Act,

[1:17:09] Voice 25: trust council and the islands trust conservancy are not the same thing they're separate corporate

[1:17:14] Voice 25: entities the governance committee was constituted by the trust council which is a separate corporate

[1:17:20] Voice 25: entity to examine and assess and come up with recommendations and advice to trust council

[1:17:26] Voice 25: about trust council's governance itc members there's a witness the principal and we won't

[1:17:36] Voice 25: need to hear from trustee milton on this one it's pretty clear that the trust council back then

[1:17:40] Voice 25: was of the view that this committee was the nature of its work required it to be

[1:17:46] Voice 25: the decisions made by an elected body that's why we have elected members to the committee

[1:17:53] Voice 25: it turns out one of the appointed members as a result of an oversight now turns out to have

[1:18:01] Voice 25: uh a voting ability it's clearly against the intention of the the what the trust council

[1:18:07] Voice 25: intended back then this trust council may change its mind but uh the i think we do have to respect

[1:18:16] Voice 25: and at least consider and take seriously the principle the idea that the people who vote on

[1:18:20] Voice 25: this committee ought to be elected by trust council if this resol and i will support this

[1:18:27] Voice 25: resolution unless there's if this resolution passes i think that opens the door for a different

[1:18:32] Voice 25: discussion about the character of the idc representation it will not take away the

[1:18:37] Voice 25: representation of ipitc on the committee it will take away the voting component of it if the view

[1:18:45] Voice 25: of this trust council is that there ought to be a voting itc member then that's fine let's just set

[1:18:52] Voice 25: up an arrangement where trust council does the election and that way we can treat that person

[1:18:56] Voice 25: properly as a as accountable to this body as well in in dealing with governance issues that relate

[1:19:01] Voice 25: to trust committee but that's a separate issue so uh that's why i'm going to support this motion

[1:19:08] Voice 4: trustee harris silvap speaker i'll keep it short um it just seems clear to me that that the

[1:19:15] Voice 4: intention was that the governance committee be made up of elected members it's pretty cut and dry

[1:19:20] Voice 4: um and it does appear to me that the conservancy and trust council are different entities all right

[1:19:28] Voice 27: i'm gonna call the vote all those in favor

[1:19:40] Voice 5: yeah you can add my team to this

[1:19:46] Voice 26: 15 including um so please lower your hands and those opposed and seven opposed so that motion

[1:20:01] Voice 26: does carry thank you for the thoughtful debate and i would look forward in the future for some

[1:20:07] Voice 26: reconsideration of the structure as we go forward because it's clearly uh interests i'm going to

[1:20:15] Voice 26: move on, if that's all right, to 15.4. I'm not going to mention the break that's coming

[1:20:26] Voice 26: up. But 15.4, Dark Skies. I'm going to go to Trustee Morrison to advance this request

[1:20:33] Voice 26: for a decision.

[1:20:34] Voice 20: Trustee Laura Smith- The Trust Council, I'm putting forward a motion that Trust

[1:20:37] Voice 20: Council communicate to all local trust committees to notify Trustee Morrison of interest to

[1:20:41] Voice 20: collectively engage in conversations around the Dark Sky principles of adoption with relevant

[1:20:46] Voice 20: regional district hey

[1:20:49] Voice 26: we've got a mover and a seconder yours to speak to your motion i really

[1:20:52] Voice 20: don't want to take a bunch of time for the council to deal with this this is a community initiated

[1:20:58] Voice 20: ask um i have had a number of different people from across the southern gulf islands ask me to

[1:21:04] Voice 20: bring forward this briefing for helping everybody understand what the issues are and i am more than

[1:21:10] Voice 20: and happy to help with advocacy to the correct agency to figure out and get this into play

[1:21:16] Voice 20: um i we have had a number of issues one in particular that's very bracing in our own

[1:21:25] Voice 20: community around violations of this and if anything i think our dark skies are one of our

[1:21:30] Voice 20: beautiful natural resources

[1:21:32] Voice 12: justy campbell i just wanted to lend my support to it um i know this

[1:21:38] Voice 12: this is something that's been for us for the last two years pretty much and maybe even a little bit

[1:21:42] Voice 12: before my term but uh yeah something to consider for sure just too fast thank

[1:21:51] Voice 10: you yes i just uh

[1:21:52] Voice 10: wanted to say um that would bone island municipality people be uh invited as well

[1:22:00] Voice 10: thank you and uh because um bowen has a dark sky bylaw um but just to clarify clarify i know i saw

[1:22:09] Voice 10: Thank you. But to clarify, right now it only applies to municipal property. However, it is in discussion in the community and we've got an OCP working on it. We've had it for about 15 years. And interestingly, we looked at it recently. I looked at it recently. And most of the, even though it's an old photocopied kind of guidelines, most of them are still valid.

[1:22:36] Voice 10: Anyway, I've watched this movement happen across the planet, and I think it's really important for the Gulf Islands, so thank you.

[1:22:47] Voice 5: I would

[1:22:50] Voice 7: love to learn more about this and ask how we can implement this sort of thing based on land use bylaws,

[1:22:59] Voice 7: because dark skies are very important to me, being very light sensitive,

[1:23:03] Voice 7: um and that is definitely something that i value in our neighborhood and i am noticing that there

[1:23:09] Voice 7: are some uh more properties having more lights on throughout the night and you know using solar

[1:23:16] Voice 7: lights that you can't switch off which are brilliant um so um and my husband being guilty

[1:23:23] Voice 7: of that so took all the batteries out um so so i'd love to learn how to implement this and how

[1:23:31] Voice 7: how we can move this forward and I'm just trying to understand what the actual ask here is from

[1:23:37] Voice 7: Trust Council.

[1:23:40] Voice 20: My ask is really just to put it on the record that we're considering it that's why

[1:23:44] Voice 20: it's an unofficial motion so that we have it on the record that we're considering it and if people

[1:23:49] Voice 20: just see me about it then we will work it through. I'm only going to put that first motion on the

[1:23:53] Voice 20: table today.

[1:23:54] Voice 26: Okay thank you. Trustee Boland.

[1:23:59] Voice 21: I really support this. I think that we would be

[1:24:03] Voice 21: pushing on an open door if we mounted a campaign to inform people because i think once people know

[1:24:09] Voice 21: about it and understand it um it they won't you know resist it um i have lived in a place where

[1:24:17] Voice 21: there was the dark sky you know policy and it is wonderful to be able to see the stars at night i

[1:24:24] Voice 21: know in many places on the islands we can but there are places where we can't and we should

[1:24:29] Voice 21: be able to see them always so i really support this and thank you trustee morrison for bringing

[1:24:36] Voice 21: it forward melton

[1:24:38] Voice 23: thank

[1:24:42] Trustee Middleton: you yes i i support this and i think for a a slightly differing reason

[1:24:47] Trustee Middleton: it would provide us with some tools perhaps if we get into a bit of a rearguard negotiation action

[1:24:53] Trustee Middleton: with roberts bank terminal 2. um it's 15 kilometers out in the straight it it will be a significant

[1:25:00] Trustee Middleton: light source for the coasts of Saturna, Maine, and Galliano. And I think if we have either a

[1:25:08] Trustee Middleton: set of bylaws or principles that we could use, there's light mitigation techniques that can be

[1:25:14] Trustee Middleton: used now with industrial LEDs and shielding and siting at the design phase. So I think if we have

[1:25:20] Trustee Middleton: these to sort of engage, we might be able to make an impact in terms of lessening the light pollution

[1:25:26] Trustee Middleton: of Terminal 2, should it go ahead?

[1:25:28] Trustee Middleton: So I very much support this.

[1:25:31] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[1:25:32] Trustee Middleton: Mr. Borkwick.

[1:25:35] Voice 14: Yeah, I'm very much in support of this.

[1:25:38] Voice 14: I have been looking for ways to sort of formulate this

[1:25:43] Voice 14: and address this question in our own LTC,

[1:25:46] Voice 14: although we are very lucky in that Denman is largely very dark.

[1:25:50] Voice 14: In my experience, you'll have someone new who moves to the island

[1:25:54] Voice 14: and they'll keep the lights on for the first six months or so,

[1:25:57] Voice 14: and then suddenly they seem to just turn out.

[1:25:59] Voice 14: Um, that's not always the case, and I really think this is good, not least because I think

[1:26:04] Voice 14: the name is very evocative.

[1:26:05] Voice 14: Dark Sky Initiative is fantastic.

[1:26:09] Voice 14: Uh, um, I do have a quick question for, for, uh, for Trustee Morrison, um, and this, and

[1:26:15] Voice 14: this is a broadly to, to trust council.

[1:26:17] Voice 14: Um, I would be very interested in going forward with, with, uh, number three, the recommendation

[1:26:22] Voice 14: for, for future consideration.

[1:26:24] Voice 14: I feel like if this is something which, as it sounds, has wide support at Trust Council, it may be in our interests to get that information about what our jurisdiction is ahead of time so that we can be ready to make a decision once we've had an opportunity to educate ourselves.

[1:26:41] Voice 14: themselves um

[1:26:44] Voice 20: so my I actually am going to have two three and four we can bring them back but I

[1:26:48] Voice 20: actually think everybody needs time to just absorb and digest a little bit um so but two three and

[1:26:54] Voice 20: four I'll bring back in September um if we can I don't know how we do it anyway we'll do that in

[1:26:59] Voice 20: September um and just to the comment from Trustee Middleton the other actual implication for this

[1:27:04] Voice 20: could be on Anchorage lighting um which has been very contentious in a number of places um and by

[1:27:11] Voice 20: by several of the First Nations up and down the coast as well.

[1:27:15] Voice 24: Especially Beverly.

[1:27:18] Voice 24: Yeah, when I saw this, I thought the name was pretty cool too.

[1:27:24] Voice 24: Hopefully I'm not going to sound too much like a nut job here,

[1:27:27] Voice 24: but for the last 25 years, I have slept outside every day under the stars.

[1:27:35] Voice 24: And it's a different experience.

[1:27:40] Voice 24: And I would urge everybody to try this once in a while.

[1:27:45] Voice 24: I've managed to convince a few people, a friend of mine on Salt Spring here,

[1:27:48] Voice 24: and now he sleeps outside every day.

[1:27:50] Voice 24: The joy you get from sleeping under the stars,

[1:27:55] Voice 24: that relaxation you get from sleeping under the stars.

[1:28:00] Voice 24: And, you know, to go to the points about Robert Spank,

[1:28:03] Voice 24: and it wasn't just them.

[1:28:04] Voice 24: If you go back years ago when they brought in the lighting restrictions

[1:28:06] Voice 24: for the greenhouses in Delta and made them turn them off at certain times of night

[1:28:10] Voice 24: because literally it would light up the Gulf of Georgia, right, or the San Francisco.

[1:28:13] Voice 24: see so you know there's there's a real fundamental in my mind and this is what i can sound a little

[1:28:22] Voice 24: bit like a nut job but the real fundamental experience in sleeping under the stars and

[1:28:29] Voice 24: when you think about it everything that's happened around those stars everything in our

[1:28:34] Voice 24: in our universe in our solar system in our galaxy you get to experience them on a nightly basis

[1:28:41] Voice 24: so yeah kudos and I was really thrilled to see this come forward thanks you

[1:28:47] Voice 21: need to be on the

[1:28:48] Voice 21: poster Ben I can see the poster now yeah

[1:28:51] Voice 26: let's keep our speaker list okay

[1:28:53] Voice 21: thank you

[1:28:54] Voice 21: I

[1:28:55] Voice 26: think you're sleeping bag the next time this helps me okay Christine Evans I

[1:29:01] Voice 7: was just going

[1:29:02] Voice 7: to ask if this is something that could be moved over to trust programs as an educational piece

[1:29:07] Voice 26: yes that's a good idea i'll leave that up to the initiative can i call the vote on this one

[1:29:13] Voice 26: oh no we've got more people thank

[1:29:18] Voice 10: you yes i have new things i just wanted to mention from our

[1:29:22] Voice 10: experience on both uh some of the other things you might want to keep in mind as you're thinking

[1:29:27] Voice 10: about this or looking at it um not only is it really also important for uh insects and uh

[1:29:34] Voice 10: marine life, people, part of the complaints I've seen occasionally over the years coming

[1:29:42] Voice 10: into Bowen or the Conservancy are people put security lights out on their docks and they're

[1:29:50] Voice 10: automated.

[1:29:51] Voice 10: So even if the people aren't there, the lights are still coming on and they're changing the

[1:29:56] Voice 10: vision of the coast and the ecosystem.

[1:30:00] Voice 10: processes and uh same with houses that are uh not occupied sometimes they have security companies

[1:30:06] Voice 10: and and uh and then what is um uh parking lots and uh where security stuff so i don't know what

[1:30:16] Voice 10: things are like on your island but those are just a few of the uh things on bowling we sort of uh

[1:30:22] Voice 10: initially were forced to,

[1:30:25] Voice 10: also at the time, and I wasn't on it way back 15 years ago

[1:30:30] Voice 10: or something, decided to confine this bylaw

[1:30:34] Voice 10: just to municipal lands because we were getting pushed.

[1:30:36] Voice 10: So just something to think about.

[1:30:39] Voice 10: Thank you.

[1:30:40] Voice 4: Trustee Yates.

[1:30:43] Voice 19: So I fully support this,

[1:30:45] Voice 19: but I also would like to see numbers two, three,

[1:30:47] Voice 19: and four move very quickly ahead.

[1:30:50] Voice 19: head. We did have at our local trust committee level several months ago, someone came and

[1:30:55] Voice 19: presented to us. And so at that time, I put the information into my OCP amendment file. But I've

[1:31:02] Voice 19: been aware of this for a long time because I have a biology background. It's not just us who need

[1:31:09] Voice 19: the dark skies. It's the migrating birds. It's the moss. It's the pollinating insects. It's the marine

[1:31:15] Voice 19: life who desperately need those dark skies and i would like to see this as part of our trust

[1:31:23] Voice 19: policy statement because then we could rightfully put it into our official community plans

[1:31:31] Voice 19: and the only way we can really address it at a land use bylaw is with things like signs and

[1:31:37] Voice 19: outdoor lighting but it would be really good to have an overall policy on supporting the dark

[1:31:42] Voice 19: sky principle right from the policy statement level okay

[1:31:52] Voice 26: i think that's uh our speaker's list

[1:31:55] Voice 26: i'm going to call for the vote in favor all those in favor

[1:31:59] Voice 16: when

[1:32:00] Voice 26: we made the one motion all those in

[1:32:03] Voice 26: favor please lower your hands 22 it sounds like i don't believe there's any opposed that carries

[1:32:19] Voice 26: trustee morrison okay

[1:32:21] Voice 20: i actually would like to pause and not do the other motions i'll bring

[1:32:24] Voice 20: bring them back in September.

[1:32:25] Voice 20: My understanding though, would be that in this first motion

[1:32:29] Voice 20: to communicate with all local trust committees,

[1:32:31] Voice 20: I would ask staff to forward this RFD

[1:32:34] Voice 20: to the local trust committee

[1:32:36] Voice 20: so they have all the background information

[1:32:38] Voice 20: and then they can make up their decisions

[1:32:40] Voice 20: as they want to do that.

[1:32:41] Voice 26: Sure, that'll put it on their agendas.

[1:32:43] Voice 26: Yeah.

[1:32:44] Voice 26: Okay, so thank you.

[1:32:45] Voice 26: I'm grateful for pausing on that.

[1:32:50] Voice 10: Can it also be forwarded to Boone Island Municipality?

[1:32:53] Voice 10: Thank you.

[1:32:54] Voice 10: Thank you.

[1:33:00] Voice 26: So that concludes our new business items. I'm going to press you a little bit here.

[1:33:05] Voice 26: And I know that you're deserving a break. We've also got a number of other items,

[1:33:10] Voice 26: but the annual report was circulated to you by email. And I'm just going to ask a simple question.

[1:33:18] Voice 26: Are there any further amendments to that? Or can we put that adoption of that annual report to the

[1:33:25] Voice 26: the question. Are there any further amendments necessary? And I know you may not have had a

[1:33:31] Voice 26: chance to read it. So there's an element of trust. I'm not seeing anything. I'm going to pause.

[1:33:41] Voice 26: Trustee Boland, over to you.

[1:33:46] Voice 21: I did give some feedback from our local trust committee about

[1:33:50] Voice 21: the presentation of the statistics and the census. Regularly or always, they present the increase in

[1:34:00] Voice 21: population from 1991 to 2021 which um and i i think it's not a very useful statistic the way

[1:34:09] Voice 21: it's presented i asked that it be changed for saturnia um i don't know if it's been changed

[1:34:16] Voice 21: and i i don't think it has but um it's something that i've raised a couple of times behind the

[1:34:23] Voice 21: scenes okay

[1:34:25] Voice 26: um that's great and i think that if there's something that needs to be changed it

[1:34:31] Voice 26: It needs to be less than behind the scenes.

[1:34:32] Voice 26: But I'm going to ask the Director of Trust Area Services.

[1:34:36] Voice 21: I actually provided feedback directly on the contribution to the CETERNA part of the annual report.

[1:34:44] Voice 21: And I believe it hasn't been changed.

[1:34:49] Voice 6: What had been brought to my attention was the change request around protected area statistics, not the census data.

[1:34:55] Voice 6: That span of census data is because that 100% data for which Statistics Canada feels we can reliably use for trend purposes.

[1:35:05] Voice 6: So that's why those dates are selected, because we have those solid data sets.

[1:35:11] Voice 6: If you'd like it changed, but I believe we also use that so there's consistency between the local trust committee reports if they're all using the same timeframe.

[1:35:17] Voice 6: Should Saturna wish to be different, we could accommodate that. If you would

[1:35:21] Voice 6: need to provide me with that timeframe you feel is most relevant.

[1:35:25] Voice 26: Right. So at this time, and we're not debating a motion at this point,

[1:35:28] Voice 26: I'm just trying to get a sense of whether or not we can endorse approval of this annual report.

[1:35:34] Voice 26: Do you want to hold up the annual report endorsement?

[1:35:37] Voice 26: Okay,

[1:35:39] Voice 21: by how much? I mean, should we have an offline discussion, Claire,

[1:35:43] Voice 21: and decide whether it will take two days? Fine.

[1:35:47] Voice 21: If it takes longer, I'm good to leave it till next year.

[1:35:50] Voice 21: I

[1:35:51] Voice 26: think we should leave until next year to be quite frank.

[1:35:54] Voice 21: Okay. All right. I'll go with that.

[1:35:57] Voice 26: In

[1:35:57] Voice 21: the interests of collaboration and being, et cetera, collegial.

[1:36:03] Voice 21: Yes. Okay. Let's go ahead.

[1:36:05] Voice 26: Thank you. I'm grateful.

[1:36:07] Voice 26: So, Dean Peterson.

[1:36:11] Voice 3: I move that Ireland's Trust Council approve the 2023-24 draft annual report

[1:36:18] Voice 3: for submission to the Minister of Municipal Affairs as meted.

[1:36:22] Voice 26: Moved, seconded by a bunch of people.

[1:36:24] Voice 26: I'm going to pick David Graham,

[1:36:25] Voice 26: just because I see him down there.

[1:36:27] Voice 26: And thank you, David.

[1:36:29] Voice 26: Any further discussion?

[1:36:33] Voice 26: No, I want to thank actually all of the LTCs

[1:36:36] Voice 26: and staff for the significant contribution

[1:36:39] Voice 26: to make this happen.

[1:36:40] Voice 26: It's an important document that goes to government

[1:36:43] Voice 26: that is our board report.

[1:36:45] Voice 26: And I'm grateful for that.

[1:36:47] Voice 26: So all those in favor?

[1:36:53] Voice 27: I'm not seeing any hands down hands up okay okay so I'm gonna have to

[1:36:59] Voice 26: do again so the hands down

[1:37:00] Voice 26: any opposed any opposed not opposed that carries unanimously okay can we take five minute break

[1:37:09] Voice 26: and then we're going to come back for disposition of delegation correspondence and then we've got

[1:37:14] Voice 26: um at 12 15 we've got transport Canada coming in and I do want to conduct uh election associated

[1:37:22] Voice 26: associated with the Committee of the Whole and also finalized the schedule for that meeting okay

[1:37:29] Voice 26: so that's five minutes

[1:37:29] Voice 18: all right and um no

[1:37:43] Voice 27: okay

[1:37:44] Voice 17: with

[1:37:46] Voice 27: Transport Canada sorry

[1:37:49] Voice 26: about that apologies

[1:37:54] Voice 26: um Ryan has worked with us for years and years and years and with Director Frater and has been

[1:38:02] Voice 26: instrumental in helping us and Sheila Malcolmson before me and as Sheila Malcolmson has MLA even

[1:38:10] Voice 26: in recent years and many, many others to institute significant changes in the ability to respond to

[1:38:19] Voice 26: derelict vessels and abandoned vessels and mooring buoys and all that sort of stuff.

[1:38:23] Voice 26: And certainly sometimes it seems that maybe the line is not moving very far,

[1:38:27] Voice 26: but it is challenging. And I want to thank Ryan for coming here today.

[1:38:30] Voice 26: Okay. And I'll just turn it over to you to let me speak.

[1:38:34] Voice 13: All righty. Thank you very much.

[1:38:36] Voice 13: Just want to say it's hard to believe, as you mentioned, Claire and I had been working on issues related to derelict or abandoned and dilapidated vessels and vessels that were posing hazards all the way back since 2012.

[1:38:53] Voice 13: And I think Islanders Trust played an instrumental role in kind of pushing forward the importance

[1:39:00] Voice 13: of that in terms of the federal government taking steps to develop legislation to help

[1:39:08] Voice 13: address the issue.

[1:39:10] Voice 13: And again, it's really a shame.

[1:39:11] Voice 13: This is the first time I've been able to come out here and actually present this stuff to

[1:39:15] Voice 13: you guys.

[1:39:15] Voice 13: The act itself came into force in 2019, and now we're actually at the five-year review

[1:39:22] Voice 13: view of the legislation. But I thank you very much for the invitation. And I really appreciate

[1:39:28] Voice 13: being able to come out. I've kept the presentation very high level, I find that I present the

[1:39:36] Voice 13: information and you guys have all kinds of questions. So it's, I prefer to have it less

[1:39:41] Voice 13: me talking to you, and more of a collaborative approach. But we'll basically go over

[1:39:46] Voice 13: um what the legislation is what it's all about what we do and really importantly what we don't do

[1:39:53] Voice 13: and you know a lot of this a lot of the discussion we have is how we can work together to address the

[1:40:00] Voice 13: various issues that uh vessels uh pose to the waters and our communities so we'll go to the

[1:40:08] Voice 13: next slide this is a bad spot for the podium you can't quite see what i'm talking about

[1:40:12] Voice 13: So obviously the purpose, I'm here to give you a little bit of an update on what we call WAVA or the Wrecked, Abandoned and Hazardous Vessels Act.

[1:40:21] Voice 13: So this is the strategy on the national strategy to address abandoned wrecked vessels and it's multi-tiered.

[1:40:30] Voice 13: It involves both Transport Canada and Canadian Coast Guard.

[1:40:33] Voice 13: So I forgive you your error because we both have a both federal departments have a role to play in addressing wrecked, abandoned and hazardous vessels.

[1:40:45] Voice 13: You can go to the next slide. Obviously, the goal, it's really two pronged initially from the beginning.

[1:40:55] Voice 13: One is to come up with a process to address legacy vessels.

[1:41:00] Voice 13: vessels. So vessels that have been around for a while. And that was done through some

[1:41:07] Voice 13: funding initiatives, such as the abandoned boat program, which local communities could

[1:41:12] Voice 13: apply to to receive funding to remove vessels. And then also to make some progress to prevent

[1:41:20] Voice 13: new boats from becoming abandoned or wrecked. And that's really where the legislation kind

[1:41:27] Voice 13: of comes in uh it developed a whole bunch of new prohibitions and and some new rules for uh to hold

[1:41:33] Voice 13: vessel owners accountable is it perfect not perfect we'll talk about a lot of that today

[1:41:38] Voice 13: um but you know that's basically what we're here to talk about so uh next slide uh so what does

[1:41:45] Voice 13: waiva do well it does strengthen vessel owner liability so there are a lot of new tools that

[1:41:52] Voice 13: that the federal government can hold owners accountable

[1:41:56] Voice 13: when they do things,

[1:41:58] Voice 13: when they're irresponsibly managed their vessel.

[1:42:03] Voice 13: Where some of the challenges are,

[1:42:05] Voice 13: are identifying owners to the, I guess,

[1:42:11] Voice 13: the limit of legal ownership, right?

[1:42:14] Voice 13: We may know who the owner is,

[1:42:15] Voice 13: but the proof from a legal perspective

[1:42:18] Voice 13: to be able to apply enforcement and punishment

[1:42:20] Voice 13: is still an area of progress.

[1:42:23] Voice 13: but we are working on that. It created a bunch of new prohibitions to try and address irresponsible

[1:42:35] Voice 13: vessel ownership or vessel management. The five prohibitions, it's prohibited to abandon your

[1:42:41] Voice 13: vessel now. It was never an explicit prohibition before. It's prohibited to have a dilapidated

[1:42:46] Voice 13: vessel in one location for more than 60 days without the permission, express permission of

[1:42:52] Voice 13: the owner who's the owner of the land it's usually ground land might be municipal land

[1:42:58] Voice 13: but whoever is as the administrative responsibility of wherever that boat is

[1:43:05] Voice 13: it's prohibited to allow your vessel to be a trip for more than 48 hours it's prohibited

[1:43:11] Voice 13: to intentionally sink your vessel it's also prohibited to allow your vessel to sink

[1:43:17] Voice 13: by negligence or failing to maintain it so those are the kind of the new five prohibitions

[1:43:22] Voice 13: In addition, there are new powers related to if a vessel is posing a hazard.

[1:43:29] Voice 13: So Transport Canada, it administers the five prohibitions, and Coast Guard administers the hazard provision.

[1:43:38] Voice 13: So when a vessel is posing a hazard, and a hazard is a negative impact to the community, to economics, risk to infrastructure or pollution.

[1:43:47] Voice 13: So that's kind of where the split is.

[1:43:53] Voice 13: In addition, so it enhances the federal powers of both Coast Guard and Transport Canada, as I've described.

[1:44:00] Voice 13: It establishes a compliance and enforcement regime and programs for that.

[1:44:04] Voice 13: So Coast Guard and ourselves have new enforcement and compliance tools to work with owners and to respond when there is irresponsible behavior.

[1:44:16] Voice 13: And then there was some housekeeping done in the legislation where it pulled some vessel-related

[1:44:24] Voice 13: pieces out of different legislation, out of the CFA, out of the old Canadian Navigable

[1:44:30] Voice 13: Waters Act, to loop it all into this legislation, because it's all meant to address kind of

[1:44:36] Voice 13: vessel ownership and responsible vessel ownership.

[1:44:40] Voice 13: It also obligates both Transport Canada and Coast Guard to work together and to share

[1:44:45] Voice 13: information.

[1:44:45] Voice 13: And we meet with our counterparts at Coast Guard every week to talk about all the stuff that's going on.

[1:44:52] Voice 13: As I mentioned, kind of in my introduction, the legislation came into force in July 30th, 2019.

[1:44:59] Voice 13: And in five years, we had a pandemic where not a lot got done.

[1:45:05] Voice 13: But in those five years, just in our region ourselves, you know, we've managed the removal and disposal of, let's say, over 300 vessels.

[1:45:14] Voice 13: Last year, we did almost 120-ish, I don't know the exact number, but it's been ramping up.

[1:45:22] Voice 13: And, you know, just in Ganges, I mean, I don't even know how many we've taken out of there, like too many to count.

[1:45:28] Voice 13: But we are very proactive, but the next slide will talk about what WAVA doesn't do.

[1:45:37] Voice 13: And so what it doesn't do is it doesn't obligate either department, so Coast Guard or Transport Canada, to take action.

[1:45:46] Voice 13: um and to dispose of a vessel so a lot lots of times what we hear is you know i phoned and i

[1:45:53] Voice 13: reported it and it's still here you guys aren't doing anything well one we don't have to and and

[1:45:59] Voice 13: that's not why we don't do anything there's lots of reasons why i'm sure we'll have that as a

[1:46:03] Voice 13: discussion but primarily you know we can only act based on the authorities that are given to us in

[1:46:09] Voice 13: the legislation right so if we get a report of a vessel that is making some noise we have to apply

[1:46:17] Voice 13: apply it to what our powers are and the prohibitions and that doesn't fit so we can't do anything

[1:46:22] Voice 13: um it also does not allow the department to address vessels that are I guess not in violation

[1:46:27] Voice 13: of the prohibition so things vessels that are not hazards that are not dilapidated or not abandoned

[1:46:34] Voice 13: right and the act itself provides definitions for what those things are Transport Canada administers

[1:46:41] Voice 13: there's two parts of those ones. We address dilapidated and or abandoned vessels. And

[1:46:47] Voice 13: the dilapidated vessel is significantly degraded or dismantled or incapable of safely navigating.

[1:46:54] Voice 13: And that's a fairly high threshold, significant. It's not, this boat doesn't look nice. It

[1:47:00] Voice 13: has a tarp over it. They have garbage on it. That doesn't necessarily meet our threshold

[1:47:06] Voice 13: threshold for the provision of dilapidated. It may tie into it, it may be part of it,

[1:47:12] Voice 13: but there is a threshold in there. It also, it's not meant to address vessels that are being lived

[1:47:19] Voice 13: on already. And I know that is a crux of the big position. This legislation is not an eviction

[1:47:26] Voice 13: legislation. It's not meant to address a situation where we have someone who's living on a vessel.

[1:47:32] Voice 13: vessel and the negative side effects of that person living on the vessel are not related to

[1:47:37] Voice 13: the legislation right noise other kinds of you know the petty crime all that kind of stuff

[1:47:45] Voice 13: unfortunately our legislation does not address those impacts that these vessels are having

[1:47:50] Voice 13: it also is not applicable to vessels above the high water mark or on land and or it also is not

[1:47:57] Voice 13: applicable to structures or things that are not vessels the you know the nice floating cabins that

[1:48:04] Voice 13: are in gadgie's harbor so this legislation does not apply to those because they're not vessels

[1:48:10] Voice 13: i will go to the next slide um so as i mentioned before uh these this is basically the list of the

[1:48:18] Voice 13: prohibition so under the legislation you cannot just abandon your unwanted vessel you cannot

[1:48:24] Voice 13: cause your vessel to become a wreck because you fail to maintain it you cannot sink or

[1:48:30] Voice 13: strand or ground it on purpose there are provisions like if you read through the

[1:48:35] Voice 13: legislation like if you have to do it to save lives like you know you're underway and you're

[1:48:39] Voice 13: like we're gonna sink i'm gonna go put it on the rocks so that people don't drown it's a different

[1:48:44] Voice 13: story right but like just intentionally driving it up on the rocks so you can walk away that that's

[1:48:52] Voice 13: what we're talking about here um and then without being authorized leave your vessel in poor

[1:48:56] Voice 13: condition in the same area for more than 60 days and that area it's not just to help make it really

[1:49:03] Voice 13: clear that's three nautical miles so if you just move it around ganges harbor and you don't have

[1:49:09] Voice 13: permission and your vessel is dilapidated that's not good enough you're still in violation of the

[1:49:16] Voice 13: prohibition we could still exercise our authorities and it does not uh you're permitted from allowing

[1:49:22] Voice 13: your vessel to be a hazard and then also the one about more than 48 hours before taking measures

[1:49:27] Voice 13: to secure it and again most people with a nice boat are never going to let it be drifting around

[1:49:32] Voice 13: for 48 hours there are penalties for non-compliance so it does have a very robust

[1:49:39] Voice 13: enforcement regime you know we have the ability to issue directions to be able to do things

[1:49:45] Voice 13: they fail to comply with the directions or if they're found in violations there are monetary

[1:49:49] Voice 13: There are monetary penalties that range from $5,000 to $25,000 for individuals and $50,000

[1:49:57] Voice 13: to $250,000 for corporations.

[1:50:00] Voice 13: And then there's also in very serious cases, there's penal prosecution, which can involve

[1:50:05] Voice 13: even more serious fines and or jail time.

[1:50:10] Voice 13: One of the tricky components of this is a lot of times a monetary disincentive or a

[1:50:17] Voice 13: A monetary penalty is not a disincentive to someone who may not have a lot of money.

[1:50:24] Voice 13: And we do have penalties, but we also approach enforcement from a reasonableness perspective.

[1:50:30] Voice 13: So when a vessel is posing an issue, we do try and work with the owner to mitigate what the problem is and to address that where we can.

[1:50:38] Voice 13: But that doesn't necessarily mean they will be getting away scot-free.

[1:50:42] Voice 13: in addition to penalties we can uh if transport canada has to remove and dispose of a vessel

[1:50:49] Voice 13: we can go after the owner for cost for cost recovery and not do a penalty um we right now

[1:50:56] Voice 13: uh it's our position that when we have to take action on a vessel where we know who the owner is

[1:51:01] Voice 13: at the very minimum they're going to get a a warning like our actual written warning

[1:51:07] Voice 13: which will form part of their compliance record and also uh so if we have a repeat customer

[1:51:14] Voice 13: you know it's not going to be the same thing again you know we very clearly explain what

[1:51:19] Voice 13: the responsibilities are to try and prevent future occurrences uh next slide okay so this is related

[1:51:34] Voice 13: to um coast guard provisions so the the first set of prohibitions you know abandoning the vessel

[1:51:41] Voice 13: allowing it to be a direct sinking and dilapidation,

[1:51:43] Voice 13: Transport Canada is responsible

[1:51:47] Voice 13: for administering those sections of the legislation.

[1:51:50] Voice 13: If a vessel is posing a hazard,

[1:51:53] Voice 13: DFO, and it's operated through Coast Guard,

[1:51:57] Voice 13: Marine Emergency and Environmental

[1:51:59] Voice 13: and Hazardous Response Unit,

[1:52:02] Voice 13: so the same pollution line that you always call,

[1:52:05] Voice 13: they are the one window for all of government,

[1:52:08] Voice 13: for all vessels of concern.

[1:52:11] Voice 13: like i mentioned we meet with coast guard every week uh everything should be going to coast guard

[1:52:16] Voice 13: through their 1-800 number the pollution the pollution reporting line and it will get assessed

[1:52:21] Voice 13: for pollution under the canada shipping act as well as for um the hazards and abandon and

[1:52:29] Voice 13: dilapidation by transport canada every vessel that gets reported will have an assessment done

[1:52:36] Voice 13: done. But like I mentioned before, it doesn't mean just because it's reported, something

[1:52:41] Voice 13: is going to happen to that vessel. And so when a vessel poses a hazard, Coast Guard

[1:52:49] Voice 13: may take measures to prevent or mitigate the hazard, and that may not be removing the vessel.

[1:52:56] Voice 13: If the hazard is that it's adrift and it's going to crash into something, they may re-secure

[1:53:02] Voice 13: it or if it's a pollution component they may remove all the pollutants but it it won't necessarily be

[1:53:08] Voice 13: removal and disposal right so they look at it they do their assessment and they mitigate

[1:53:14] Voice 13: the hazard that is being posed um and then there's also other powers related to maritime casualties

[1:53:22] Voice 13: uh and the maritime carefully is like what happens when there's a vessel that's underway

[1:53:26] Voice 13: uh and again coast guard is responsible for those provisions um we go to the next slide uh again

[1:53:36] Voice 13: I think I mentioned the practices and penalties. We can kind of skip over this part. Obviously,

[1:53:43] Voice 13: how do you be a responsible owner? One, keep your vessel or boat in good condition. Take care of

[1:53:50] Voice 13: your stuff. Plan ahead. Think about your vessel's retirement plan. It's always easy to sell your

[1:53:57] Voice 13: boat for a dollar or give it away, but you're really just passing the proverbial buck.

[1:54:04] Voice 13: um you know it's it's not as expensive to uh address your vessel once it comes to the end

[1:54:12] Voice 13: of life as you may think it's much more expensive if it's up on the rocks or it sinks because you

[1:54:18] Voice 13: sold it and someone else doesn't uh taxpayer dollars are your dollars um and so just uh

[1:54:26] Voice 13: obviously be responsible if your vessel is truly at its end of life you know you should be managing

[1:54:32] Voice 13: that yourself. And it should be disposed of legally and responsible. If you operate a

[1:54:40] Voice 13: vessel over 300 gross tons, it must have wreck removal insurance. If you operate a vessel

[1:54:49] Voice 13: that is involved in an incident or a wreck, you are actually now obligated to report that

[1:54:54] Voice 13: to MCTS or Coast Guard radio. And first and foremost, ensure that your vessel is licensed

[1:55:02] Voice 13: or register and if you sell a vessel keep your paperwork notify licensing and our registry that

[1:55:11] Voice 13: hey i've sold my boat i am no longer the owner because if your name is still on it technically

[1:55:17] Voice 13: we can and someone else abandons the boat you could be held responsible if you can't prove that

[1:55:24] Voice 13: you are not the legal owner and again we're reasonable we're not just looking for people

[1:55:30] Voice 13: to go after but it's very important to uh if you do sell a vessel you know help that new person

[1:55:37] Voice 13: put that vessel in their name uh next slide um so as i mentioned um before uh one of the

[1:55:51] Voice 13: new tools uh that is going to be part of the strategy to address vessels of concern

[1:55:55] Voice 13: is related to the creation of a vessel remediation fund uh right now the money that is spent for all

[1:56:01] Voice 13: removals is borne 100 by the taxpayer um the best remediation hunt uh will very likely be

[1:56:10] Voice 13: a small surcharge on the pleasure crop license that is going to be rolled out and that money

[1:56:17] Voice 13: will go into a specific fund that will only be used to remove abandoned or hazardous vessels

[1:56:25] Voice 13: it's not going to go into the general government fund so it'll be used to fund the program

[1:56:29] Voice 13: and hopefully over time that will give us enough money to be responsive.

[1:56:34] Voice 13: It's always terrible if we have to make decisions based on budget

[1:56:37] Voice 13: instead of based on what our authorities are.

[1:56:40] Voice 13: But at the utmost, we always only act within the authorities we have, right?

[1:56:46] Voice 13: And again, it's very clear where we can and cannot.

[1:56:50] Voice 13: I'm sure all of you wouldn't like a government that can just go around

[1:56:54] Voice 13: and take your stuff because they don't like the look of it, right?

[1:56:57] Voice 13: So we have to be very thorough in making sure that it is in violation of those prohibitions,

[1:57:04] Voice 13: and we're acting accordingly in accordance to the authorities that are granted to us.

[1:57:10] Voice 13: When will this roll out?

[1:57:14] Voice 13: TBD, it's still in development, but it is definitely on one of the priorities.

[1:57:20] Voice 13: Next slide.

[1:57:24] Voice 13: As mentioned, vessel owner identification is an issue.

[1:57:29] Voice 13: uh or was identified as a gap uh when we did the analysis of what's causing this problem

[1:57:35] Voice 13: um and so part of the part of the strategy the federal government strategy is to revamp

[1:57:40] Voice 13: the pleasure craft licensing system uh it's moving more digital uh it's also reducing

[1:57:48] Voice 13: uh the renewal period right now it's 10 years it's going to get reduced down to five years

[1:57:53] Voice 13: It also changes the requirements. Currently, right now, one of our biggest, one of our, you know, where we're taking the most action on vessels is related to sailboats with no engine.

[1:58:06] Voice 13: And there's no requirement for those to be licensed.

[1:58:09] Voice 13: licensed. So the 10 horsepower will still be part of it, but now there's a new requirement

[1:58:18] Voice 13: to license a pleasure craft that is over six meters in length, even if it's a saleable.

[1:58:26] Voice 13: And so that's going to be one of the new tools to help us bring more owners into the regime.

[1:58:34] Voice 13: machine and there will obviously be there's going to be an exclusion for human power vessels and

[1:58:39] Voice 13: using kayaks they're not they're not a big problem we don't want to overly burden the the boning

[1:58:45] Voice 13: industry um and additionally uh the commercial vestal registry uh is also looking to be being

[1:58:53] Voice 13: transformed to be a kind of a digital first to make it easier simpler uh process uh next slide

[1:59:00] Voice 13: uh this slide here i can we have a nice pdf i can provide uh to the executive here uh tell

[1:59:09] Voice 13: alexandra and she can distribute it um but this is you know who you call you know you're a vessel

[1:59:15] Voice 13: what do you what do you do uh so it says like in these different situations here's who you should

[1:59:21] Voice 13: call generally speaking if it's an immediate say a boat's on fire or something like that call 9-1-1

[1:59:26] Voice 13: police if it's anything else a pollution kind of component or it's abandoned it's not immediate

[1:59:34] Voice 13: right it could be urgent but not immediate unless it's like actively polluting but that's called

[1:59:41] Voice 13: coast guard through the one window process so that gets it in to the federal government regime

[1:59:48] Voice 13: and it will get to coast guard it will get to transport canada um and then if it's a wreck

[1:59:55] Voice 13: and you want to take possession of it

[1:59:58] Voice 13: or you're salvaging

[2:00:00] Voice 13: vessel because you know you've been a good seaman you saw something and you wanted to make sure no

[2:00:05] Voice 13: further harm came to that then you can come directly to transport canada but if it's related

[2:00:09] Voice 13: to a vessel of concern which is you know the broad or the broad umbrella of a rectum or a hazardous

[2:00:15] Voice 13: vessel um then you then you go the coast guard through the one window uh next slide and there's

[2:00:26] Voice 13: the 1-800 number and if you're looking to take possession and that that would be like you want

[2:00:34] Voice 13: to you either want to dispose of it yourself or you want to use it that would be what is the taking

[2:00:40] Voice 13: possession of uh getting contact transport canada so that's the regime that's a little bit about

[2:00:47] Voice 13: what we do and what we don't do um uh do you guys have any questions i

[2:00:56] Voice 26: got questions but let's go to

[2:00:58] Voice 26: you guys first i see let's start at the end of the table there and uh david maude you're on the list

[2:01:05] Voice 24: yeah thank you thanks ryan um i've i've been with the um dfo with the pacific harbor authority

[2:01:11] Voice 24: advisory committee in the national harbor advisory committee for the last 15 years

[2:01:15] Voice 24: i think presented to us there a while ago um i just want to thank you for this i think um it's

[2:01:21] Voice 24: a great example of of how those sort of regimes are changing to try and address some of the

[2:01:26] Voice 24: problems i know in the um with the harvard authority advisory committee with dfo we have

[2:01:31] Voice 24: our own abandoned and derelict vessel removal program and i think uh with this year's slate

[2:01:37] Voice 24: we've got about 100 vessels that will have been taken out through that program um and i would say

[2:01:44] Voice 24: for people here one of the big challenges that we have and as you guys do as well is is ownership

[2:01:51] Voice 24: ownership and and getting permission to remove a vessel and in this area I would urge people to

[2:01:58] Voice 24: reach out to an organization called the Dead Boat Society which assists with that it can it can help

[2:02:04] Voice 24: people because it's it's not cheap sometimes to do this and they're very experienced at it and so

[2:02:11] Voice 24: they can assist people with with sort of figuring out how to come to you so that a vessel can be

[2:02:16] Voice 24: be removed um the one sort of challenge that i i see and and we've been sort of dealing with

[2:02:24] Voice 24: for years is the registration program of vessels and um you know i look back a couple of years

[2:02:32] Voice 24: a number of years ago um it's taken us up to two years to register a vessel with transport canada

[2:02:41] Voice 24: to get through that process and i'm pleased to announce that we recently in the last few months

[2:02:48] Voice 24: registered a couple more vessels and it took two weeks oh so

[2:02:51] Voice 24: it's it's a it's a significant

[2:02:53] Voice 24: difference in how you how the paperwork is done the simplified tonnage you know the things that

[2:02:59] Voice 24: you've done with the program so i want to thank you for that um but you know your your presentation

[2:03:08] Voice 24: presentation is a great illustration of the limitations sometimes that people don't realize

[2:03:13] Voice 24: that there is with liveaboards, with some of these vessels. And, you know, you're in the epicenter

[2:03:23] Voice 24: right here, right? And it's hard to encourage people to have patience. But I do urge people

[2:03:35] Voice 24: to have patience because there's a lot of good people working on these programs to try and

[2:03:42] Voice 24: get to a point where we have responsible ownership where we know who the owners are where

[2:03:47] Voice 24: where people are treating the waters in a fashion that they should be treating and so that you know

[2:03:51] Voice 24: everything under those waters is being treated in a way it should be treated as well but um

[2:03:56] Voice 24: but i just wanted to thank you it was great to hear from you again and uh

[2:03:59] Voice 24: look forward to one of our one of our meetings again too yeah thanks

[2:04:08] Voice 10: Two questions. The issues that our island

[2:04:13] Voice 11: is facing is the weird detail that if we see a vessel that needs immediate help, we pull it up on land, and then all of a sudden, it's nobody's problem but our own.

[2:04:26] Voice 11: so what is the rationale for not dealing with vessels that are on the shoreline and my second

[2:04:33] Voice 11: question is where do you take these abandoned vessels how are they um dumped where do they go

[2:04:42] Voice 11: well

[2:04:46] Voice 13: you said the magic word dump that's pretty much where they go um when when they are in fact

[2:04:53] Voice 13: garbage so most of the time they're you know broken up or separated into the various components and

[2:05:00] Voice 13: disposed of as per it's a waste management right so all of that is kind of as per regulations by

[2:05:06] Voice 13: the province these materials need to be handled in this way and these ones need to be handled enough

[2:05:11] Voice 13: so that's basically where where it happens um and in terms of where the balance of the legislation

[2:05:18] Voice 13: are, it's to the high water mark.

[2:05:21] Voice 13: So if you're in the intertidal area, that's not the end of it.

[2:05:26] Voice 13: But if you have taken it up and put it on a trailer and have it in someone's yard, that's

[2:05:32] Voice 13: exactly why we have that.

[2:05:34] Voice 13: We're not, you know, don't come, you know, that's not really where we're supposed to

[2:05:38] Voice 13: be, right?

[2:05:39] Voice 13: So it's meant to be, the legislation itself is part of the pillars of the Oceans Protection

[2:05:47] Voice 13: Program.

[2:05:47] Voice 13: So, if it's not in the ocean or affecting the ocean, it's not really part of, you know, the components of a vessel. So, you know, just because it's been put aground, and again, that is a prohibition, except in certain cases, it doesn't mean we can't deal with it.

[2:06:08] Voice 13: It just means typically when a vessel is stable, you've addressed the urgent nature and now, you know, it's there and there's no further impacts happening.

[2:06:23] Voice 13: And one thing that I didn't kind of talk about in our legislation, when Transport Canada is addressing vessels and removing and disposing of them, when they're found a violation of prohibition,

[2:06:34] Voice 13: the legislation is very prescriptive in how we act and the things we have to do before we can

[2:06:41] Voice 13: take action and and one that is to protect owners rights so i'm not just going and taking people's

[2:06:48] Voice 13: stuff right willy-nilly and so at a minimum even if we find it and deem it to be abandoned or it's

[2:06:56] Voice 13: found a violation of being dilapidated um it's 30 days we have to do a notice period of 30 days

[2:07:03] Voice 13: before we can be in a position to take action.

[2:07:07] Voice 13: For a dilapidated vessel, we have to come, we have to inspect it,

[2:07:11] Voice 13: we have to make the determination that it is in fact dilapidated.

[2:07:16] Voice 13: That's only the first part of the prohibition.

[2:07:18] Voice 13: Now we have to wait 60 days before it's actually in violation,

[2:07:22] Voice 13: before we can direct them to do anything,

[2:07:24] Voice 13: or start our 30-day clock to actually remove it.

[2:07:28] Voice 13: So if a dilapidated vessel, we come out the next day, 90 days.

[2:07:33] Voice 13: before you'll see action and and you know i'm just is it right or wrong it's what the legislation is

[2:07:41] Voice 13: and that's how we have to manage within it and you know we get a lot of stuff i recalled and

[2:07:46] Voice 13: reported it nothing's happened and everything that gets reported goes through like a triage

[2:07:51] Voice 13: and so a vessel that's on the beach that's in a protected area sheltered area well i'm not going

[2:07:59] Voice 13: to call a protected area um it's in a sheltered area so you know in 30 days or 60 years or 90 days

[2:08:05] Voice 13: it's not going to significantly become degraded or something that significantly is going to change

[2:08:12] Voice 13: it's going to get slotted in uh we as we get reports three to five a week of new vessels

[2:08:19] Voice 13: and so we have to triage all of these things and some are higher you know just based on the

[2:08:24] Voice 13: the condition and the situations are higher or lower priority so we manage them all and we're

[2:08:30] Voice 13: like okay well here's an area and you know in certain areas there's a full range there's low

[2:08:36] Voice 13: low priority and high priority when we come when we come to ganji's harbor we try and look at the

[2:08:42] Voice 13: picture for some week so you know if we're going to come and put notices on vessels we're not oh

[2:08:48] Voice 13: this one was the high risk and this one i would still wait you know we try and we try and be

[2:08:52] Voice 13: wholesome um but many times sometimes it has to be it sucks a little bit but it's not until the

[2:09:00] Voice 13: vessel sinks where now that person who was living on that boat no longer says it's theirs and

[2:09:06] Voice 13: they're going to do something now we can take it right so is that ideal not no it's not ideal but

[2:09:14] Voice 13: it's within the bounds of the authorities we have right so you know we have a vessel that looks like

[2:09:19] Voice 13: it may not you know it's on the wrong side of 50 you know as they like to say or um you know and

[2:09:27] Voice 13: we may want to address it but that owner is vehement well this is mine it's you know i don't

[2:09:32] Voice 13: want you to touch it well okay and then 90 days later six months later that vessel sinks oh well

[2:09:42] Voice 13: you know hey we have your name thank you for talking to us your vessel sunk now are you going

[2:09:46] Voice 13: to be doing anything with it oh no i can't i'm not capable and then now we're in a position where

[2:09:52] Voice 13: we're running through our compliance and enforcement regime and at the very minimum that

[2:09:56] Voice 13: person would be like you know here's what's going to happen we might send you the bill you might get

[2:10:01] Voice 13: a written warning you might get an amp every circumstances is evaluated you know we want to

[2:10:07] Voice 13: be compassionate and empathetic and all of those sorts of things right we don't want to be just a

[2:10:12] Voice 13: hammer um and so we we look at every situation and we respond we respond accordingly trusty pease

[2:10:24] Voice 3: yeah i want to thank you for the the presentation i just want to draw some attention the in a

[2:10:30] Voice 3: relationship between these issues and the provisions of the navigation protection act

[2:10:37] Voice 3: around private buoy regulations and the minor work order i'm just looking at this notes from

[2:10:44] Voice 3: from Transport Canada about being involved in multi-agency collaborative initiatives,

[2:10:51] Voice 3: develop long-term solutions to areas known to be congested with mooring buoys,

[2:10:56] Voice 3: but those not in compliance with regulations.

[2:10:58] Voice 3: We had a Capital Regional District-sponsored workshop beginning in May, I think it was,

[2:11:08] Voice 3: and a number of Islands Trust folks were part of that as well,

[2:11:13] Voice 3: as well as that regional district and some of the jurisdictions,

[2:11:17] Voice 3: the municipal jurisdictions in the area.

[2:11:21] Voice 3: Notably, there was no federal participation in that.

[2:11:25] Voice 3: So I'm just wondering about what's a good way,

[2:11:30] Voice 3: who do we want to talk to to try and get the federal component in

[2:11:34] Voice 3: on this regional discussion?

[2:11:38] Voice 13: Yeah, I received a very last-minute invitation to that meeting.

[2:11:44] Voice 13: that I was not able to attend.

[2:11:48] Voice 13: So it was, you know, it just unfortunately didn't work.

[2:11:53] Voice 13: And previously, before we had this legislation,

[2:11:56] Voice 13: so the Canadian Navigable Waters Act,

[2:11:59] Voice 13: that is also administered by our program.

[2:12:01] Voice 13: So I'm the manager for the Navigation Protection Program.

[2:12:05] Voice 13: And we administer the prohibitions under WAVA,

[2:12:10] Voice 13: as well as the Canadian Navigable Waters Act.

[2:12:12] Voice 13: And the Canadian Navajo Waters Act is about protecting the right of navigation.

[2:12:19] Voice 13: It's not about, is this a good use of this particular area for waterway?

[2:12:25] Voice 13: And we've done a lot of work in many, many bays looking at applying those kinds of things.

[2:12:34] Voice 13: um you know when i i was out in ganges this morning um and you know you see

[2:12:42] Voice 13: mooring boys some of them are compliant some of them are not so compliant uh but then you have

[2:12:47] Voice 13: like vessels and docks and in between those there's houses and all that kind of stuff

[2:12:52] Voice 13: um so the canadian navigable waters act regulates the placement of works so things such as docks um

[2:12:58] Voice 13: but it's all looked at through the lens of navigation.

[2:13:04] Voice 13: And if you space your buoys properly and you have a dock,

[2:13:10] Voice 13: if someone applied to Transport Canada for an approval to put a dock there,

[2:13:14] Voice 13: Transport Canada would say yes.

[2:13:17] Voice 13: It's not unduly interfering with the right of navigation.

[2:13:23] Voice 13: But is that something that the local government wants to have a bunch of docks here?

[2:13:29] Voice 13: That's not for us to say.

[2:13:31] Voice 13: We look at it through one particular lens.

[2:13:33] Voice 13: And I know that there are some local municipalities that have either gone through a process to get a license of occupation.

[2:13:42] Voice 13: And again, I don't know within Worth Islands Trust where your authorities extend to within waterways.

[2:13:51] Voice 13: But when the issue is related to kind of community management or is this a good use of this?

[2:13:57] Voice 13: Is there a better use?

[2:13:58] Voice 13: Should it be for this or for that?

[2:14:01] Voice 13: that's not what is looked at through the lens of the Canadian Navigable Waters Act.

[2:14:05] Voice 3: Just a quick follow-up, because I think one of the issues from my perspective

[2:14:10] Voice 3: is that we have this regulatory environment where there's four levels of government,

[2:14:15] Voice 3: and it doesn't make any sense for any one of them to try and act unilaterally.

[2:14:21] Voice 3: The cooperation is really important, and that was my point. Thank you.

[2:14:25] Voice 13: I 100% agree.

[2:14:26] Voice 13: And we've always had way more success when all the levels, three or four in many cases,

[2:14:34] Voice 13: are all at the table.

[2:14:35] Voice 13: Because as you can imagine, the regulatory regime is like, oh, Transport Canada can do

[2:14:42] Voice 13: this little piece.

[2:14:43] Voice 13: And the provincial government can do this little piece.

[2:14:46] Voice 13: And the local government can do this little piece.

[2:14:48] Voice 13: And if we all act by ourselves, nothing gets done.

[2:14:52] Voice 13: And or, you know, a small little piece may just get done.

[2:14:55] Voice 13: And when we go in together and we collaborate, and again, this is why I almost always accept any invitation I get to come and talk, is I'm more than happy to collaborate with the different levels to kind of see how we can all work together.

[2:15:13] Voice 13: Thanks, Ryan,

[2:15:16] Trustee Patrick: for coming today.

[2:15:18] Trustee Patrick: I know you're going to start to talk about the vessels, but I want to ask you a bit more about the doc segments.

[2:15:23] Trustee Patrick: segments I I know their works um and I know they result from primarily from the province failing

[2:15:29] Trustee Patrick: to follow up on disposal when the major marina upgrades their their facilities these dock segments

[2:15:37] Trustee Patrick: are in every Harbor not just Ganges I know I've seen them in Thetis Harbor I think they're over

[2:15:41] Trustee Patrick: in Montague they're everywhere um and they are they I assume some are impeding with the navigation uh

[2:15:50] Trustee Patrick: what can we do about these dock segments?

[2:15:55] Trustee Patrick: Well,

[2:15:59] Voice 13: like, what can you do?

[2:16:01] Voice 13: I would say Island Trust would have to look at

[2:16:03] Voice 13: what their bylaws and all of that kind of stuff.

[2:16:08] Voice 13: Again, it's about acting within the authorities

[2:16:10] Voice 13: that are provided to you.

[2:16:12] Voice 13: So I don't know the how for Island Trust related to,

[2:16:17] Voice 13: I know we've worked, I think, in Horton Bay

[2:16:19] Voice 13: with Island Trust where they have some rules about docks.

[2:16:22] Voice 13: if if you guys are able to establish bylaws to limit what can go on things and again i don't

[2:16:31] Voice 13: know if you do have that authority or not you may have it in some ways and you may have it not in

[2:16:35] Voice 13: others but island's trust can act within the authorities that are granted to them

[2:16:41] Voice 13: and so if island's trust has an issue with docs in the area and they have the authority to develop

[2:16:47] Voice 13: bylaws or already have existing bylaws it's just a matter of following through with the enforcement

[2:16:52] Voice 13: enforcement of that because

[2:16:56] Voice 17: you'll already oh

[2:16:57] Trustee Patrick: but these are are not dock segments works under the

[2:17:03] Trustee Patrick: transportation rules yes

[2:17:07] Voice 13: and like I mentioned if they applied we would likely approve them because

[2:17:13] Voice 13: we can only deny them if they are you know a significant impediment and navigation and so

[2:17:22] Voice 13: So if it's just a dock in a bay that you can navigate around, there's, you know, it's not, is it right or is it wrong?

[2:17:32] Voice 13: It's what is the impact that this work is going to have on navigation?

[2:17:35] Voice 13: Is it a safety issue?

[2:17:37] Voice 13: And where a dock may become dilapidated or start to break down or that sort of thing, that's a time where we may be able to come and take some measures.

[2:17:47] Voice 13: But it's not for us to say, is it good?

[2:17:49] Voice 13: Is this what it is?

[2:17:50] Voice 13: It should be here or should not be here.

[2:17:52] Voice 13: it's if it's here what is the impact to navigation and is that impact to navigation acceptable and if

[2:17:59] Voice 13: that is then we can approve it or we would approve it and so that's why we don't like we don't go

[2:18:06] Voice 13: around and tell people hey you need to apply because if they apply we we may issue an approval

[2:18:14] Voice 13: and then now if uh the stress can say you don't we don't want you to have a doctor here you can

[2:18:18] Voice 13: be like well i got this paper from transport canada says it's approved right we don't we

[2:18:22] Voice 13: we can't deny it because the province doesn't want it you know the province has to deny that's their

[2:18:28] Voice 13: Authority we can't deny it because Island's Trust doesn't want it there that's Island's

[2:18:33] Voice 13: Trust's Authority they have to deny it they have to enforce it so that's that that's where

[2:18:38] Voice 13: you know we have to be very careful because it's someone's property it belongs to someone we can't

[2:18:44] Voice 13: we have to only operate within the authorities we have

[2:18:49] Voice 5: that's the authority I

[2:18:52] Voice 10: just have a few

[2:18:53] Voice 10: questions regarding

[2:18:56] Voice 10: the nitty-gritty. I was wondering

[2:18:59] Voice 10: what was the average

[2:19:00] Voice 10: cost of boat disposal?

[2:19:03] Voice 10: It depends.

[2:19:07] Voice 13: It's

[2:19:08] Voice 13: all over the place. It depends

[2:19:10] Voice 13: on where it is geographically. Is it floating?

[2:19:12] Voice 13: Is it sunk? Is it wood? Is it

[2:19:14] Voice 13: fiberglass? Is it metal?

[2:19:17] Voice 13: On average,

[2:19:19] Voice 13: and again,

[2:19:20] Voice 13: this is very broad, a typical pleasure craft,

[2:19:23] Voice 13: 20 to 27

[2:19:24] Voice 13: seven foot floating or sunk so most of the stuff we take out of ganges harbor costs us between five

[2:19:30] Voice 13: and ten thousand dollars for like your typical pleasure ground that's that's what it costs us

[2:19:35] Voice 13: have a diver go float it up take it out drain it out off to the dump disposal fees disposal fees

[2:19:43] Voice 13: represent half of the cost of of the removal like i think we're paying on in salt spring

[2:19:51] Voice 13: $400 a ton something like that so you know you're looking on on a $6,000 job to clean it up you know

[2:20:00] Voice 13: two to three thousand dollars is just in tipping fees and

[2:20:07] Voice 10: then one more question how many boats

[2:20:09] Voice 10: are there roughly in need of disposal in i don't know the trust area the the southern

[2:20:15] Voice 10: So it's

[2:20:18] Voice 13: impossible. There's not a number. What we have is, so many of you may have heard of the Coast Guard inventory, 1,200 vessels. That was done from like 2015 to 2017. Lots of those have been on or off.

[2:20:36] Voice 13: Right now, in our program, we have some 600 open files on vessels. Just because we have a file,

[2:20:45] Voice 13: any vessel that gets reported, we're going to create a file because we're building that

[2:20:50] Voice 13: history, right? We're going to do an assessment. The vast majority of those 600, the outcome is

[2:20:55] Voice 13: no further action. There's an owner, they're just doing things, people don't like the look of it,

[2:21:01] Voice 13: or it hasn't hit where they're now in violation of the prohibition. So that's the vast majority.

[2:21:08] Voice 13: One day, they're in our system because they are future customers,

[2:21:13] Voice 13: as we like to say. So they're monitored and in six months, in a year, in 18 months,

[2:21:19] Voice 13: should the situation or the condition of the vessel change, then we have to reassess it

[2:21:24] Voice 13: based on all the new information and the decisions are done. So it's really hard to

[2:21:30] Voice 13: say how many need disposal there are tens of thousands of like tens of thousands of vessels

[2:21:35] Voice 13: that are in the registry that are over 35 years old in canada maybe even and if you get into

[2:21:42] Voice 13: pleasure crap hundreds of thousands right but you know some 50 year old boats are gems and some are

[2:21:48] Voice 13: not some 15 year old bolts are are you know floating it's all about how that owner takes

[2:21:55] Voice 13: takes care of their boat you have a boat in the water it's amazing if you do nothing for two years

[2:22:00] Voice 13: how much that changes it's it's like it's it it deteriorates very quickly so you know to put a

[2:22:09] Voice 13: specific number on it it's really hard but you know over the past five years you know saying

[2:22:17] Voice 13: we get about three to five reports a week of a complaint about some vessel somewhere so that's

[2:22:25] Voice 13: 150 vessels per year we're getting reports of some are new some are old and we're pulling out about

[2:22:31] Voice 13: a hundred of those vessels so you know there's no shortage let's say but it's you know it's you know

[2:22:42] Voice 13: hard to really pin down what is a specific number sure yeah thank

[2:22:51] Voice 26: you um i'm conscious of time so

[2:22:54] Voice 26: So I'm just going to be brief, but I do want to revisit what Trustee Patrick raised about docks and how she referred to it as dock segments.

[2:23:03] Voice 26: I sort of, and admittedly it comes down to semantics, but what you said in one of the slides there were structures are things, not vessels, not in your jurisdiction.

[2:23:14] Voice 26: So, and docks is eminently what comes to mind, but really at some point they degrade from docks to rafts to simply debris of which the seaworthiness of them that never sink because they're styrofoam or wood, but the cleats on them are useless and the lines that are being used to tie them are useless and the anchor is insufficient.

[2:23:35] Voice 26: efficient. So I do wonder about that whole gray area of those, because you know that's a big

[2:23:42] Voice 26: problem. And then I do have a secondary question, and I'll just throw that in right now, is the

[2:23:47] Voice 26: commercial versus private is clearly a different penalty associated with that. And then, as you

[2:23:55] Voice 26: know, the distinction between the rafts in Telegraph Harbor that are a commercial operation

[2:24:02] Voice 26: operation versus a private operation so do you have any just quick remarks on that or if you

[2:24:10] Voice 26: have nothing else to add that's fine no

[2:24:12] Voice 13: uh so the presentation itself was on uh the wrecked

[2:24:16] Voice 13: abandoned hazardous vessels act so that is what only applies to vessels um uh Councilwoman Laura

[2:24:25] Voice 13: Laura, she talked about rafts, and I mentioned under the Canadian Navigable Waters Act, which regulates the placement of works.

[2:24:36] Voice 13: So we do have authorities as it relates to non-vessels, and that's what we would call a structure.

[2:24:43] Voice 13: But again, our lens or authorities for that legislation are related to navigation and its impact on navigation.

[2:24:56] Voice 13: And if a piece of dock becomes so degraded or in such disrepair, we do have some authorities to take measures to address that, right?

[2:25:10] Voice 13: So if it is a potential obstruction to navigation, we do have some authorities to address that.

[2:25:17] Voice 13: it's just there are hundreds or if not more of these of these stocks and we do 500 applications

[2:25:29] Voice 13: a year plus compliance and enforcement and my team of seven people we have to everything is triage

[2:25:35] Voice 13: right and and again are we the best are we the are we the best or are we just the only resort

[2:25:43] Voice 13: work, you know, are there other authorities related that should be the ones being responsible

[2:25:49] Voice 13: for this, you know, and that's where it's important for us to kind of work together

[2:25:53] Voice 13: to identify, you know, where we can work together, you know, who in these situations, who's,

[2:26:00] Voice 13: who's best to react, who's in the best position, who has the strongest legal grounds to take

[2:26:06] Voice 13: measures, right? Because a lot of authorities overlap, you know, I can issue a direction to

[2:26:13] Voice 13: vessel coast guard can issue a direction to a vessel but is this are we dealing with a pollution

[2:26:18] Voice 13: are we dealing with something abandoned if it's pollution it really coast guard should be the lead

[2:26:23] Voice 13: and so it's like that's where it's really good to establish those relationships to understand

[2:26:28] Voice 13: uh the roles and responsibilities of each group so that everyone is kind of when we're coming to

[2:26:34] Voice 13: the table is clear but it's really challenging when it's like someone is coming saying here's

[2:26:41] Voice 13: a problem come and fix it okay thank you so trustee

[2:26:47] Voice 5: boris and then trustee maberly

[2:26:48] Voice 5: yeah

[2:26:50] Voice 23: this

[2:26:53] Voice 24: is just a little bit of follow-up for michaela so we in our program our average cost

[2:26:58] Voice 24: of disposal is between 30 and 70 000 per vessel because we're primarily dealing with um sort of

[2:27:04] Voice 24: x fishing vessels and things like that i've seen it go as high as 120 000 on one vessel

[2:27:10] Voice 24: vessel. The difference, I think, between Transport Canada and ourselves is our legal costs up front

[2:27:16] Voice 24: average around $5,000, and that's generally, you know, with the Dead Boat Society and things like

[2:27:22] Voice 24: that, that'll happen. The one thing I would say is with the vessel buyback program that has

[2:27:28] Voice 24: happened, there's stage one is completed and stage two is underway. Within that program,

[2:27:35] Voice 24: program we have incentives for their owners to turn their vessels in and they get a nominal fee

[2:27:43] Voice 24: like a delivery fee for doing that so we're trying to encourage them to give their vessels

[2:27:48] Voice 24: over to um the small craft to be destroyed right so that's the first time within a buyback program

[2:27:55] Voice 24: where um we sort of address not just the licenses but the buyback as well so if you know anybody

[2:28:01] Voice 24: anybody that's been involved in that program or turned their licenses in, you can encourage

[2:28:07] Voice 24: them to also receive that. It's not a lot, but I think it's up as high as $3,500 for

[2:28:14] Voice 24: somebody to deliver their vessel.

[2:28:19] Voice 26: Okay. Thank you, everyone. And thank you very much, Ryan, for joining us today. This

[2:28:23] Voice 26: has been very helpful for us to all gather a picture. And certainly things look way better

[2:28:30] Voice 26: than they did you know five or ten years ago and i'm really grateful for that so let's give them

[2:28:36] Voice 26: a warm uh thank you yeah

[2:28:40] Voice 13: you're very welcome and if uh alexandra has my contact info if anyone has

[2:28:46] Voice 13: any follow-up questions but do feel free to reach out and if you have any ideas or thoughts on how

[2:28:51] Voice 13: we can work together more than happy to sit down with you guys thanks thank you very much okay

[2:29:04] Voice 26: Okay, thank you.

[2:29:05] Voice 26: So, Council, I want to return to our agenda.

[2:29:07] Voice 26: Did you have something, Christina, in particular?

[2:29:09] Voice 7: Yeah, I was just going to say, seeing as we've got a number of people leaving,

[2:29:12] Voice 7: should we get to the decision first and then come back to the discussion items?

[2:29:16] Voice 26: Yeah, I was counting warm bodies in the room here,

[2:29:19] Voice 26: and we're down to about 14 or 15, so we're not too bad.

[2:29:23] Voice 26: But absolutely, we should move.

[2:29:25] Voice 26: There's not much left on the agenda,

[2:29:27] Voice 26: but we should definitely move on the decision items.

[2:29:31] Voice 26: And so, of course, the first one is significantly important. It's the disposition of delegations and the public comment period. We do write thank you letters to the delegations. And I would just encourage and say that if there's a particular response to any of the delegations you'd like to take, that formulating what that response might be, might be something that could be asked of executive committee or others.

[2:29:57] Voice 26: And so I'm going to ask you.

[2:30:00] Voice 26: right now, whether or not in terms of the delegations we had today, is there anything

[2:30:04] Voice 26: that you would like to undertake over and above writing a thank you letter to the delegates?

[2:30:11] Voice 26: Christina Evans.

[2:30:13] Voice 7: I think there are two items that I'd like to go above and beyond just a basic

[2:30:17] Voice 7: thank you. And I don't know really what's going to be involved in that. The first one is having

[2:30:23] Voice 7: a response to the Ganges Harbor delegation that we had in here, perhaps advising them who is

[2:30:30] Voice 7: is responsible for um looking after that on their behalf because i think it was said in here trust

[2:30:35] Voice 7: council is not the body that has the authority there so maybe in that response advising who that

[2:30:42] Voice 7: that that that that person or body should be

[2:30:45] Voice 26: okay so let me just return to staff and i realize it's

[2:30:51] Voice 26: off the cuff here um can we include that kind of information in uh the response to them in our

[2:30:58] Voice 26: letter of thanks to say contact coast guard whatever

[2:31:02] Voice 23: well we can i mean they're appealing

[2:31:04] Voice 23: to trust council for a local consideration right

[2:31:08] Voice 26: so then your local trust committee would be would

[2:31:12] Voice 26: be the other obvious answer yeah that would be

[2:31:14] Voice 26: embraced in that but

[2:31:16] Voice 23: i don't think accessing

[2:31:17] Voice 23: that information providing it is is a challenge no yeah okay that's the question and

[2:31:23] Voice 7: this the

[2:31:24] Voice 7: second one is a response to all the letters that we've been receiving regarding the section

[2:31:29] Voice 7: Section 3 mandate, the rising report that we had.

[2:31:35] Voice 7: So I think that requires either being put on the agenda for further discussion or a

[2:31:41] Voice 7: response back to them to say that this is going to have further discussion, something

[2:31:45] Voice 7: along those lines, just to help slow down the amount of letters on that one topic.

[2:31:53] Voice 26: Right.

[2:31:55] Voice 26: So just trying to help, I think that what would be appropriate there is a motion to

[2:31:59] Voice 26: ask the council consider this prefer the discussion in a special session or at a future council meeting

[2:32:05] Voice 26: yeah so i'm offering advice if that is what you'd like to do i certainly think that would

[2:32:15] Voice 26: be constructive should

[2:32:18] Voice 7: i do that motion now or should we wait for september up to you okay okay

[2:32:24] Voice 7: then i move that trust council add to the september trust council meeting a discussion

[2:32:31] Voice 7: on the section three mandate.

[2:32:37] Voice 26: Yeah, that's good, that's perfect.

[2:32:40] Voice 26: That will advance that conversation.

[2:32:42] Voice 26: Do I have a seconder?

[2:32:44] Voice 26: Trustee Morrison, excellent, thank you.

[2:32:46] Voice 26: Any discussion on that?

[2:32:48] Voice 26: I think we all wanna have it.

[2:32:49] Voice 26: So I'm gonna call for the vote then.

[2:32:52] Voice 26: All those in favor, lower your hands.

[2:32:57] Voice 26: And online, please lower your hand.

[2:32:58] Voice 26: It was two, three up there.

[2:33:00] Voice 26: So I think that carries, but any opposed?

[2:33:04] Voice 26: Sorry.

[2:33:06] Voice 26: none opposed so indeed that carried okay thank you uh trustee evans for helping us with that

[2:33:12] Voice 26: any other uh actions associated delegations joe

[2:33:18] Voice 25: bernard we had we had an ex um we have this uh

[2:33:22] Voice 25: outstanding question uh presented to us by the delegation uh regarding the proposed

[2:33:28] Voice 25: lawsuit to sue big oil and i think the delegation should be informed that um the trust council

[2:33:38] Voice 25: has noted the development

[2:33:39] Voice 25: and is deliberating on its options.

[2:33:45] Voice 26: Okay, so that could be included in the response letter,

[2:33:48] Voice 26: the thank you letter to the delegate.

[2:33:50] Voice 26: That would be a normal practice, I think.

[2:33:52] Voice 26: Yep, I'm seeing an agreement there.

[2:33:54] Voice 26: So that would be great.

[2:33:56] Voice 26: And I realized actually in the flurry of things

[2:34:00] Voice 26: we came out of in camera

[2:34:01] Voice 26: and I didn't actually rise and report.

[2:34:04] Voice 26: And so I apologize for that.

[2:34:06] Voice 26: And so before I move on on the agenda, assuming I've concluded the disposition of delegations,

[2:34:12] Voice 26: I'm going to rise and report that council considered legal opinion, adopted minutes,

[2:34:17] Voice 26: and heard matters related to staff. And that's all that I have to report from our

[2:34:26] Voice 26: in-camera session. So thank you for that. I'm going to move along to correspondence.

[2:34:33] Voice 26: Correspondence, we have, oh gosh, I've got it lost here.

[2:34:40] Voice 26: So we have two pieces of correspondence

[2:34:42] Voice 26: that are included in our agenda.

[2:34:45] Voice 26: I think there was a third one with two more.

[2:34:49] Voice 26: And so I'm hoping that we will obviously receive those

[2:34:54] Voice 26: for information normally.

[2:34:56] Voice 26: Is there any specific direction

[2:34:57] Voice 26: with any of the correspondence?

[2:34:58] Voice 26: And I'm gonna go to Trustee Morrison.

[2:35:00] Voice 26: I

[2:35:01] Voice 20: would ask in light of the motion from Trustee Evans that we have any correspondence related to Section 3 included in the packet for September.

[2:35:11] Voice 26: Thank you very much. So that would be at least one of the items that's in our agenda today.

[2:35:16] Voice 26: So you'll take that into consideration. So thank you very much.

[2:35:20] Voice 26: With that, we'll take that by general consent.

[2:35:22] Voice 26: Anything else associated with correspondence received either in this package or in the addendum?

[2:35:30] Voice 26: then i'm going to receive that correspondence for information thank you very much council

[2:35:36] Voice 26: um i'm going to move through summary updates um you know we've tried to figure out how to

[2:35:42] Voice 26: manage this and so we've uh we've been asking for you to make submissions and we have a couple of

[2:35:47] Voice 26: submissions here and but we don't want to just go off over them and so the purpose for having them

[2:35:54] Voice 26: here is to is to provide the opportunity for you to to ask questions about those for which

[2:35:59] Voice 26: we've received information are there any questions uh related to any of the trustee updates

[2:36:06] Voice 26: participation in external groups any questions trustee morrison um

[2:36:11] Voice 20: i would just also i i

[2:36:13] Voice 20: did not submit written notes but i was attended the avec and have talked to a number of people

[2:36:18] Voice 20: about it i prefer to have that conversation one-to-one so please feel free to reach out

[2:36:23] Voice 20: and talk to me if you have any questions about the avec housing related conversations

[2:36:26] Voice 20: right

[2:36:28] Voice 26: and I would include myself in that too I was attending that I want to actually

[2:36:32] Voice 26: acknowledge and thank trustee Elliott for taking the lead on that where some of us myself included

[2:36:37] Voice 26: have been less disciplined in that oh I see you certainly brought

[2:36:45] Voice 10: to my attention by staff that

[2:36:47] Voice 10: according to policy we are supposed to provide a written report when we attend conventions and

[2:36:53] Voice 10: they're sponsored by council so i think that's been maybe a practice that has lapsed in the past

[2:36:58] Voice 10: and so we're trying to adhere to that so if you've had your fees paid but you're not a delegate

[2:37:05] Voice 10: i think that's the difference of a forum um but if yeah if you're attending on behalf of trust

[2:37:11] Voice 10: council the expectation is you bring back the education for the rest of trustees so

[2:37:15] Voice 10: in future that'd be great yeah

[2:37:18] Voice 16: sorry can

[2:37:20] Voice 20: i ask your clarification on that yes so is the expectation

[2:37:23] Voice 20: that that is in writing because my the way that i prefer to handle those is in conversations with

[2:37:30] Voice 20: trustees so and that's fine if that's our policy to have it in writing but not all knowledge is

[2:37:36] Voice 20: shared in written form and i'm a writer so don't get me wrong i have quite a few pages notes that

[2:37:41] Voice 20: i can share but i just prefer to have those conversations with people well

[2:37:45] Voice 26: let's we'll

[2:37:46] Voice 26: review that policy at ec just to make sure we focus on that and can provide a circular to

[2:37:50] Voice 26: to ensure that we are adhering to that.

[2:37:55] Voice 26: I think it's, thank you, Trustee Elliott

[2:37:57] Voice 26: for bringing that to our attention.

[2:37:59] Voice 26: Okay, so then I'm not seeing any other questions.

[2:38:02] Voice 26: I'm gonna then move on to,

[2:38:05] Voice 26: we have here for our information is the top,

[2:38:08] Voice 26: Trust Council top priorities active project chart,

[2:38:11] Voice 26: which includes all of the activities

[2:38:13] Voice 26: that are happening across the Federation.

[2:38:15] Voice 26: And so just receive that information.

[2:38:17] Voice 26: information. Our September Trust Council meeting logistics, again, for information at 19.3

[2:38:24] Voice 26: is to propose September Trust Council three-day program. Obviously, we've just added an item

[2:38:29] Voice 26: that's going to be the Section 3 discussion to that, but this is just the first draft

[2:38:35] Voice 26: of that, and it will develop, and that's there for your information. Is that satisfactory?

[2:38:41] Voice 26: Tim Peterson?

[2:38:44] Voice 3: Thank you, Chair. I would just suggest that we should insert a placeholder for

[2:38:50] Voice 3: discussion around requests for the province i think there'll be plenty of appetite for that so

[2:38:55] Voice 3: just count on that being in there okay

[2:38:58] Voice 26: you are on executive and um we can definitely bring that so

[2:39:02] Voice 26: um assuming that there's support for that around the table so by general consent that will be

[2:39:07] Voice 26: advanced through executive committee there's no way of skirting around that okay trustee martin

[2:39:14] Voice 26: one

[2:39:15] Voice 20: other question i had uh feedback from a number of different community members about the timing of

[2:39:20] Voice 20: the delegations yes um just that it caused some challenges for people who work um and so i don't

[2:39:27] Voice 20: know if that can be considered we've

[2:39:31] Voice 26: talked about it a lot we can continue to talk about it um and i

[2:39:35] Voice 26: would just say you know it's an interesting dilemma right there are certainly those people that are

[2:39:38] Voice 26: working that are unable to attend us there are also people in family situations that are unable

[2:39:43] Voice 26: to attend and when they go late into the evening it makes it difficult so we will look at that

[2:39:50] Voice 26: again and see what opportunity what opportunities there might be to exist to help that make

[2:39:54] Voice 26: work better don't know the immediate answer um and anybody that has any suggestions would be welcome

[2:40:02] Voice 26: uh well put them in writing to ec yeah in fact what we appreciate ec appreciates and staff

[2:40:07] Voice 26: appreciate is feedback about how this meeting has gone and where we can look for improvements

[2:40:13] Voice 26: because we are constantly looking for improvement we want to do better and i hope i'm doing better

[2:40:17] Voice 26: together um is that good so that's the three-day Council program September Trust Council meeting

[2:40:25] Voice 26: location um we had some challenges around this the the staff want to speak to this but we are

[2:40:33] Voice 26: now moving that location from Gabrielle out into Nanaimo I don't think there's any choices there

[2:40:38] Voice 26: really this is an advice that that's what's happening yeah and

[2:40:41] Voice 5: that's on

[2:40:45] Voice 26: the next page

[2:40:49] Voice 26: Yeah, okay, but that's a separate. I know it's a separate item. That's this is just

[2:40:56] Voice 26: information request for decision. Oh, I'm sorry. It isn't. So why do we have that twice?

[2:41:01] Voice 26: Okay.

[2:41:06] Voice 5: Yeah,

[2:41:08] Voice 26: still twice on the agenda. But that's okay. Maybe it's an announcement. So

[2:41:18] Voice 3: let's

[2:41:19] Voice 3: council changes september 24 to 26 2024 quarterly meeting location from gabriel island to nanaimo

[2:41:26] Voice 3: moved and seconded by

[2:41:28] Voice 26: toby elliott i think i heard oh it was over here trustee evans thank you

[2:41:33] Voice 26: and there's a hand up for trustee scott uh there's no i don't think there's any necessity

[2:41:39] Voice 26: to speak to the motion

[2:41:40] Voice 5: i'm just going to second it so obviously i don't have to do that

[2:41:47] Voice 26: all those in paper hands down any opposed one opposed thank you so that carries

[2:42:00] Voice 26: look forward to seeing you in the nine hall all right um now i did ask for

[2:42:08] Voice 26: a couple of new business items one is the committee of the whole do you have a motion

[2:42:16] Voice 26: there for me, Alexandra?

[2:42:18] Voice 26: Committee of the Whole, the next meeting,

[2:42:20] Voice 26: there was a survey that went out

[2:42:22] Voice 26: and it was determined a time and a date for that.

[2:42:26] Voice 26: And we just need to commit to that.

[2:42:28] Voice 26: So I'd look for somebody to read that motion.

[2:42:33] Voice 26: Tim Peterson.

[2:42:36] Voice 3: Any interest in moving on slide?

[2:42:38] Voice 3: I move that trust council hold a Committee of the Whole

[2:42:40] Voice 3: meeting on Monday, July 8th, 2024

[2:42:42] Voice 3: at 9 a.m. electronically.

[2:42:45] Voice 3: Seconded by Lisa Gavro.

[2:42:49] Voice 26: And any discussion?

[2:42:53] Voice 26: All those in favor?

[2:42:56] Voice 26: And lower your hands.

[2:42:59] Voice 26: Any opposed?

[2:43:01] Voice 26: One, two opposed.

[2:43:05] Voice 26: Yep, so that does carry.

[2:43:08] Voice 26: I just want to recognize and note that short notice of me is difficult for all of us.

[2:43:20] Voice 26: And quite honestly, we need to establish a regular schedule for the Committee of the Whole meetings.

[2:43:27] Voice 26: And so I am going to suggest that at that next meeting, we schedule a series of meetings.

[2:43:34] Voice 26: Even if we don't end up using them, we can easily cancel them, whereas it's difficult or impossible for others to change their schedules if we haven't planned in advance.

[2:43:44] Voice 26: So I'm assuming that we will see something like that.

[2:43:46] Voice 26: And honestly, I guess executive committee is going to say these are the meeting dates.

[2:43:51] Voice 26: Unless somebody else has a suggestion right now.

[2:43:53] Voice 26: Trustee Boland.

[2:43:54] Voice 26: Trustee Boland online.

[2:43:57] Voice 21: I just wanted to speak to the thing you raised at the very beginning of the meeting about electing a chair for the committee as a whole.

[2:44:05] Voice 21: My connection failed or your connection failed, in fact, and I was unable to make my point.

[2:44:12] Voice 21: May I say it briefly now?

[2:44:14] Voice 21: Oh,

[2:44:14] Voice 26: I see. But we are going to go into a new business item here now to elect.

[2:44:20] Voice 21: Okay. I'm

[2:44:21] Voice 21: just looking at what's on the screen, which is adjournment. So just checking.

[2:44:28] Voice 26: That's a mistake. There's three additional items in 20 in Section 20. And so you can speak to it.

[2:44:36] Voice 26: But we have a plan here to elect right now somebody to chair the next committee of the whole.

[2:44:44] Voice 21: So is this all of the candidates were good with me?

[2:44:49] Voice 21: I would.

[2:44:50] Voice 21: Is this for that particular meeting or for all of the committee of the whole meetings?

[2:44:55] Voice 21: Just

[2:44:55] Voice 26: for the one and the next committee of the whole meeting will be determined at the next committee of the whole to try and give.

[2:45:03] Voice 26: Why don't

[2:45:04] Voice 21: we just rotate them?

[2:45:06] Voice 21: Why don't we just create a rotation?

[2:45:08] Voice 21: Anyway, that's my point.

[2:45:09] Voice 21: That

[2:45:10] Voice 26: discussion can be held at the Committee of the Whole.

[2:45:12] Voice 26: I think that all of that is on the table.

[2:45:15] Voice 26: I'm just saying that we're going to elect the first one today to get it kick-started,

[2:45:19] Voice 26: and then this next meeting will determine what the future of that looks like.

[2:45:24] Voice 26: Okay?

[2:45:26] Voice 26: All right.

[2:45:27] Voice 26: So we voted on the Committee of the Whole.

[2:45:30] Voice 26: That's done.

[2:45:31] Voice 26: And so now I'm going to actually turn it to David because what I've recommended is that we hold about an election at this nominations and an election at this time.

[2:45:42] Voice 26: Over to you, David.

[2:45:43] Voice 22: OK, thank you. So on the screen are the four trustees that have put the name forward.

[2:45:49] Voice 22: So what we're looking for now is a motion to nominate one or more.

[2:45:57] Voice 22: yeah and then it's seconded to that so can i get um and i see um trustee birthwick

[2:46:05] Voice 22: uh

[2:46:06] Voice 14: yeah i'd like to uh well pardon me i'd like to nominate trustee mod okay

[2:46:11] Voice 22: trustee mod second

[2:46:12] Voice 22: evans thank you and trustee mom you're willing to stand thank you okay so trustee mod is there

[2:46:19] Voice 22: any other nominations i'm going to ask it over three times so i see uh yeah i

[2:46:26] Voice 22: nominate trustee

[2:46:27] Voice 22: bernardo hey trustee bernardo i want to make sure you're a second there so trustee harris

[2:46:32] Voice 22: thank you and trustee bernardo do you understand for that uh

[2:46:37] Voice 25: my view of it is this should be a

[2:46:39] Voice 25: rotating thing i'm quite content to have uh uh trustee maude take the lead on this one and

[2:46:44] Voice 25: i'll keep my name in there or it's as part of the cycle if people prefer but i don't think we should

[2:46:49] Voice 25: make a huge deal about it and i think uh trustee maude would be a trustee maude would do a fine

[2:46:55] Voice 25: job and so I'm withdrawing my

[2:46:57] Voice 25: name for this round.

[2:46:58] Voice 25: Thank you.

[2:46:59] Voice 22: So that Trustee Mudd is still

[2:47:02] Voice 22: on. Okay. So I'm

[2:47:03] Voice 22: going to ask a third and final time.

[2:47:05] Voice 22: Do you want to see Trustee Scott's hand

[2:47:07] Voice 22: up and Trustee Boland, especially

[2:47:09] Voice 22: Scott? Okay. And Trustee

[2:47:15] Voice 22: Boland, would you hand up? No. Okay.

[2:47:18] Voice 22: Are there any other

[2:47:19] Voice 22: nominations? This is the third and final

[2:47:21] Voice 22: request.

[2:47:22] Voice 26: What's that text on

[2:47:23] Voice 26: the screen there?

[2:47:24] Voice 26: Okay.

[2:47:26] Voice 22: Trustee who?

[2:47:28] Voice 26: I don't know.

[2:47:31] Voice 22: okay okay all

[2:47:32] Voice 27: right so i'm one two three four five six yeah

[2:47:35] Voice 22: i'm not seeing any more nominations so

[2:47:37] Voice 22: that's third and final request so by acclamation um vice chair trustee mod is the uh chair of the

[2:47:44] Voice 22: next committee of the whole meeting sir

[2:47:46] Voice 26: thank you very much thank you council that's terrific

[2:47:53] Voice 26: okay so i think then the final item that we are at now is just a notice that uh our next meeting

[2:47:59] Voice 26: is September the 24th to 26th in Nanaimo now, not Gabriola.

[2:48:05] Voice 26: And if there's no further business,

[2:48:07] Voice 26: I'll call for adjournment.

[2:48:09] Voice 26: All those in favor?

[2:48:15] Voice 26: Is there something wrong, Trustee Morrison?