Islands Trust Council regular meeting, July 18, 2024

[0:00:00] Voice 8: All right, thank you very much everybody for coming out.

[0:00:02] Voice 8: Good morning, thank you for joining us today for this regular meeting of the Saterna Island Local Trust Committee.

[0:00:08] Voice 8: I want to begin the meeting by acknowledging the unfortunate to be able to gather today on location across the territory of the Coast Salish people.

[0:00:15] Voice 8: I'm David Bodleck, I'm the main island and I'm the chair of the Saterna Island Local Trust Committee.

[0:00:20] Voice 8: We're joined today by your Saterna Island local trustees, Trustee Middleton, Trustee Poland,

[0:00:25] Voice 8: and then we are together making up the

[0:00:29] Voice 8: Saturn Island Local Trust Committee. The meeting is being live-streamed and recorded

[0:00:33] Voice 8: by application. Yes. A man from Maine is the

[0:00:38] Voice 8: chair of the Saturn Island Trust Committee? Yes, sir. That is the way

[0:00:41] Voice 8: the island's trust is signed? Yes, that's the way our organization is set up.

[0:00:45] Voice 8: Otherwise,

[0:00:46] Voice 9: why are you here?

[0:00:49] Voice 13: Thank you.

[0:00:55] Voice 8: So this video is being live, this is being recorded for those who are unable to attend

[0:00:58] Voice 8: the person today. The recording will be posted to the Unstressed website for future viewing.

[0:01:03] Voice 8: We have some of the members joining us today. We have our planner, who is our reformed secretary,

[0:01:12] Voice 8: and I'm assuming Emily Blunt is our Zoom ambassador, which we do sincerely appreciate

[0:01:19] Voice 8: and everybody being in it um this meeting is an official form of pre-local trust made to

[0:01:23] Voice 8: make decisions so it might lose planning matters and discuss relevant business i want to add this

[0:01:28] Voice 8: to place employment despite the fact some staff are at their own homes are sat on the way to a

[0:01:32] Voice 8: safe respectful workplace so before us we have an agenda does anybody have any additions um

[0:01:40] Voice 8: i

[0:01:40] Voice 7: think there's one addition which i referenced is very good it probably won't take long it's

[0:01:45] Voice 7: sort of a placeholder uh and this would just be um we call it by law enforcement protocols okay we

[0:01:56] Voice 7: had um i can speak to them when we get there so it's going to be under new business or wherever

[0:02:01] Voice 7: wherever you want really where are we we

[0:02:04] Voice 9: have i guess we're going to be under the work program

[0:02:09] Voice 9: because i mean it's not all the work right now okay and then do the letter if you want

[0:02:16] Voice 12: Oh, yes, I can talk about it, I'm sure, but it's not fine or not.

[0:02:23] Voice 12: What should I need to do about it?

[0:02:24] Voice 8: Well, if it's coming from the Local Trust Committee, we need to do a motion.

[0:02:29] Voice 12: Okay.

[0:02:30] Voice 8: But the motion can be generic, and I'll say that the Local Trust Committee will send a letter,

[0:02:34] Voice 13: because

[0:02:34] Voice 8: the content doesn't really...

[0:02:36] Voice 13: Okay, sure, I can do it.

[0:02:37] Voice 8: Okay, so by concept, we'll approve the agenda with those two additional business...

[0:02:42] Voice 2: people here. You also there was an email from Janet, I think with

[0:02:49] Voice 14: respect to some correspondence around your project that I think

[0:02:52] Voice 14: you want to add as correspondence.

[0:02:54] Voice 2: Okay. Do you

[0:02:57] Voice 10: recall that?

[0:02:58] Voice 2: Yeah, there was an email saying that you wanted to

[0:03:02] Voice 2: add that to your agenda as well as for the songs.

[0:03:04] Voice 10: And

[0:03:05] Voice 12: we did have an email from somebody else as well. I don't

[0:03:12] Voice 12: to apply forward in that it was a bit confusing because some things came to our island stressed

[0:03:16] Voice 12: like events and sharing i had a reply from the chair okay so we should have that

[0:03:21] Voice 12: if

[0:03:22] Voice 7: it doesn't go what i do is when i receive an email i then will forward it to the saterna and

[0:03:31] Voice 7: the local trust committee email because then officially it goes on the it's recorded as

[0:03:37] Voice 7: communication if it's just one

[0:03:38] Voice 7: or two of us it doesn't necessarily get recorded that way so that

[0:03:42] Voice 7: might be healthy i

[0:03:43] Voice 12: think they sent it

[0:03:44] Voice 7: yeah yeah oh no we're not in criticism that's normally what

[0:03:48] Voice 7: we know then it's forward is on so

[0:03:51] Voice 12: why don't we just um make sure that between us we capture

[0:03:57] Voice 12: there are two or three pieces of correspondence that they all go onto meds and are receiving

[0:04:04] Voice 12: with jill's information yes

[0:04:06] Voice 7: yeah yeah now maybe sorry correct if i'm wrong but i believe

[0:04:12] Voice 7: automatically if we send those forward them on to the certain local trust committee email

[0:04:18] Voice 7: they automatically are received as correspondents on our next agenda

[0:04:22] Voice 7: so with

[0:04:24] Voice 13: those

[0:04:27] Voice 8: additions we can invite consent adopt the agenda

[0:04:32] Voice 8: and our first thing is our trustee report who wants to be the first to be like that

[0:04:39] Voice 7: there's two things that uh been working on sort of outside regulated that's a regular agenda

[0:04:45] Voice 7: matters but outside in the background one is a donation working with the nature trust of british

[0:04:51] Voice 7: columbia on helping to secure a donation of largely of the entire judy myers property on

[0:04:59] Voice 7: Harris Road on the way down into the vineyard area and it has proven to be an extraordinarily

[0:05:06] Voice 7: difficult transaction simply because it's classified as a subdivision basically if

[0:05:16] Voice 7: he wants to retain the cottage that she owns for her children's use which means we have to

[0:05:21] Voice 7: basically have a subdivision and Nature Trust have been you know once we've got our heads

[0:05:27] Voice 7: around it have been great brad and robert would be honest customers super helpful trying to

[0:05:31] Voice 7: trying to do what we can do but we're really running into a roadblock with the ministry of

[0:05:35] Voice 7: transportation so proving officer who is requiring this effective donation slash subdivision what we

[0:05:46] Voice 7: think is requiring uh still that it be treated as a um uh sort of a formal subdivision so subject to

[0:05:53] Voice 7: all requirements of road access proof of water etc which is problematic in this case because um

[0:06:00] Voice 7: uh the land is accessed from the park and if our virtual driveway were to be built from harris road

[0:06:07] Voice 7: it would you know be incredibly expensive and secondly kind of erase the conservation values

[0:06:12] Voice 7: of the property to a degree because the driveway would be so extensive to get to the top

[0:06:17] Voice 7: so we're kind of at the deadline day today and i'll have a discussion afterwards about

[0:06:22] Voice 7: how the approving officer was supposed to come back to us and say if she would treat it at what's

[0:06:27] Voice 7: called under the land titles I think it is if I'm wrong a section 99 subdivision which is

[0:06:33] Voice 7: a subdivision in the public interest in which case criteria like roads you know can be waived

[0:06:41] Voice 7: and we really are struggling pushing for that and we you know we might need to get you guys

[0:06:47] Voice 7: as the community involved with some kind of letter writing is my my fear is the improving

[0:06:53] Voice 7: they're overwhelmed there there are perhaps i'm just staffed i don't know what training is

[0:07:00] Voice 7: involved in getting that position but i'm not hugely hopeful that we're going to um

[0:07:06] Voice 7: share an interpretation here and so um so just a placeholder there it's uh we're close but we're

[0:07:14] Voice 7: not finished yet and the core nature trust has spent tens and tens of thousands of dollars on

[0:07:19] Voice 7: this on surveys and i don't know the capital can fees and whatnot to try to try to make this happen

[0:07:25] Voice 7: and so we really must make this happen it comes it completes the corridor of a preserve plan from

[0:07:32] Voice 7: to nervous fate um the greatest right by my property is an incredible problem of brazilian

[0:07:41] Voice 7: to own it and so it's an incredible uh piece of land so so we've been working fairly steadily on

[0:07:49] Voice 7: that but no we hope to have a good news announcement and not a request to get get

[0:07:54] Voice 7: involved in a letter writing about just a placeholder so have you anybody

[0:07:59] Voice 8: talk to sean

[0:08:00] Voice 8: because in our meeting he said amazing stuff there's issues

[0:08:05] Voice 8: I didn't think it was connected to that, Brian, but the Ministry.

[0:08:11] Voice 13: Question to the Federal Service.

[0:08:14] Voice 9: Yeah,

[0:08:15] Voice 2: I don't happen to.

[0:08:17] Voice 2: So Robert Kojima met with the PAO and with Ryan Pinches, who's the voting officer,

[0:08:24] Voice 2: and with Jordan Litke, who was the surveyor last week,

[0:08:28] Voice 2: and it's with the PAO to confirm whether Section 99 can be undertaken or not,

[0:08:37] Voice 2: with the key challenge being whether the easement route that Jordan Litke has proposed on paper

[0:08:46] Voice 2: is enough to approve subdivision versus the building, which is where we kind of hit the spot.

[0:08:54] Voice 2: And so, hopefully, I contacted Ryan yesterday, and he's going back to the PAO again.

[0:09:01] Voice 2: He got written back to me, so that's good sign.

[0:09:04] Voice 2: That's good.

[0:09:04] Voice 2: And so, I assume we'll have some decision pretty soon.

[0:09:09] Voice 2: And, you know, if

[0:09:10] Voice 2: it went down conventional subdivision, typically a survey isn't enough to get approved, so.

[0:09:16] Voice 7: Okay.

[0:09:17] Voice 7: Okay, well, that would be a plug, because she seemed to, because I was on the call as well,

[0:09:21] Voice 7: Well, she was coming in. I'm aware that she required that he's the driver to actually be built, because he wrote the subject, which is nonsensically.

[0:09:29] Voice 7: And and so so no, it wasn't the most positive call.

[0:09:34] Voice 7: I'll just be blunt. And so anyway, but that's what, you know, Brad keeps an even head about these things.

[0:09:42] Voice 7: So he's been guiding these matters. So we'll we'll see what we can do.

[0:09:47] Voice 7: um and um because the provincial criminal officer is supposed to be a statutory decision maker

[0:09:56] Voice 7: under law meaning they're appointed that way supposedly independent of political influence

[0:10:02] Voice 7: to not have fettered decision making around development and subdivision

[0:10:06] Voice 7: but the corollary to that is to whom are they accountable because the office has been doing

[0:10:13] Voice 7: an appalling job but like you guys who have applications and know they've been dropped

[0:10:17] Voice 7: nothing's happened you know the mla's become involved so we're kind of on the flip side of

[0:10:23] Voice 7: not not development but actually conservation dealing with the same issues and so you don't

[0:10:29] Voice 7: have any anything i mean hopefully we have different news from brad and robert this week

[0:10:35] Voice 7: um but if not it's on to the next step which is judy's in the constituency of david and

[0:10:41] Voice 7: and his constituency office is going to be involved so um we'll go from there excellent

[0:10:49] Voice 7: and so this i could go on about the government stuff so i'll find out something to be covered

[0:10:52] Voice 7: like future agenda items i think and then uh anything else i should speak to you i was just

[0:10:59] Voice 12: going to ask a question and you said you would be involved and the constituency office etc

[0:11:07] Voice 12: Is there a low-term residence?

[0:11:10] Voice 7: Well, there might be.

[0:11:11] Voice 7: I mean, we would prefer not to keep the PAO's job as easy as possible

[0:11:19] Voice 7: and to not sort of get all of these influences.

[0:11:23] Voice 7: But aside from sort of a mechanism of accountability,

[0:11:28] Voice 7: which we're not entirely sure how it exists,

[0:11:31] Voice 7: I have found through secret back channels for supervisors' name and number

[0:11:35] Voice 7: But I'm hesitant to use that until we actually have.

[0:11:40] Voice 7: So I do think that what I told her on the call was there a significant community interest in this donation happening.

[0:11:49] Voice 7: She seems to differ with the idea of Section 99 is only for government use where land can be subdivided for governmental organizations.

[0:11:59] Voice 7: So we differ on that interpretation of the land title or the Land Use Act.

[0:12:05] Voice 7: And so, yeah, so we may need to have to become involved at that level.

[0:12:11] Voice 7: There was a question, but I don't intend

[0:12:13] Voice 9: to change here.

[0:12:15] Voice 9: My thought is, I mean, the fallback is to rezone.

[0:12:19] Voice 9: Surely we can do that.

[0:12:22] Voice 9: It's a very quick process to rezone for

[0:12:27] Voice 7: a friendly application.

[0:12:30] Voice 7: I don't think rezoning helps us here in this case

[0:12:34] Voice 7: because um the zoning is really not an issue um the mere fact that she wants a separate title well

[0:12:42] Voice 7: she has to have a separate title for this land surrounding the cabin the minimum lot size on

[0:12:49] Voice 7: saturn for that zoning and if we change the zoning we don't have very much latitude there it's it's

[0:12:54] Voice 7: it's the issue of any subdivision of land being three acres five acres requires approval from the

[0:13:01] Voice 7: a provincial approving officer in British Columbia.

[0:13:04] Voice 7: Now, she did suggest, almost like daring us to try this,

[0:13:09] Voice 7: we could go straight to the land title's registrar

[0:13:12] Voice 7: and try and register the subdivision without her approval.

[0:13:17] Voice 7: And, you know, not to be mean and ask,

[0:13:22] Voice 7: I just genuinely seem to think that this Section 99

[0:13:27] Voice 7: was to be used in extreme cases, and she was very alert

[0:13:31] Voice 7: to protecting the public's interest that she kept saying now we were saying that given this section

[0:13:38] Voice 7: 99 is for the public interest and this donation of land is very much in the public input but she's

[0:13:44] Voice 7: thinking down the road if there's some legal issue with this subdivision around these cabins

[0:13:49] Voice 7: and the province gets itself into a corner and that's who she's seeking to you know in fairness

[0:13:54] Voice 7: to her not being able to vilify her she's seeking this kind of um represent the province's imagined

[0:14:02] Voice 7: future interests if something goes sideways with this this five acre lot so yeah it's been very

[0:14:08] Voice 7: convoluted and involved and poor nature trust i have to say have been just beside themselves and

[0:14:13] Voice 7: trying to be of course is saying look i'm 85 i can't be doing this for too much longer we've got

[0:14:19] Voice 7: to have a resolution and so um but it is incredible piece of property the trees the forest the bird

[0:14:27] Voice 7: life up there is really something else and so we'll we'll keep working at it but it will be

[0:14:32] Voice 7: a great news story when it when it when it happens it's uh you just may need to not apply political

[0:14:40] Voice 7: pressure but just show how much community interest there is through letters and other communications

[0:14:45] Voice 7: statements. Thank you. Thank you so much. Trustee Baldwin.

[0:14:52] Voice 12: Yeah, nothing quite as dramatic. So I'd say there have been a

[0:14:57] Voice 12: couple of improvements roads wise, which is good. There's a

[0:15:01] Voice 12: very bright yellow line down the

[0:15:04] Voice 12: road. I think you could probably

[0:15:06] Voice 12: follow the road without the benefit of headlights. You know

[0:15:12] Voice 12: you were on the road for sure. That yellow line is pretty good.

[0:15:15] Voice 12: And, of course, next week, EmCon are going to do some work on Cliffside, which is celebrated

[0:15:25] Voice 12: and welcomed.

[0:15:26] Voice 12: And in general, I think there's a reasonable amount of communication coming and going,

[0:15:31] Voice 12: although more to come.

[0:15:33] Voice 12: And the only other update I have is the Trust Policy Statement.

[0:15:37] Voice 12: so it's in a bit of a hiatus at the moment because we had a closed meeting to receive

[0:15:45] Voice 12: legal advice from two very senior and experienced legal people and that was a very very good meeting

[0:15:55] Voice 12: and it was a bit illuminating a bit eye-opening so much so that they are being asked to advise

[0:16:03] Voice 12: further on ramifications that could be within the most recent Trust Policy Statement draft,

[0:16:12] Voice 12: what sort of risks there are, etc. But it was a bit of an eye-opener to all of us, and

[0:16:17] Voice 12: I leave it at that because it was on camera. And that's it from me. Yeah, thanks.

[0:16:28] Voice 8: From a shared perspective, we had Trust Council on Salt Spring last month, which was a great

[0:16:39] Voice 8: session. We had a lot of good presenters. We had protesters, but very polite and very

[0:16:46] Voice 8: respected. But Trust Council, it really is a great gathering of the Trust because we

[0:16:56] Voice 8: not only get to do the business of trust, we also get the chance to meet together and interact

[0:17:01] Voice 8: together on a social basis which what's going on in your island and it really brings the trust

[0:17:09] Voice 8: together so it's we do it quarterly and it's very valuable time together. I think everybody

[0:17:16] Voice 8: ends up leaving the most trust council sessions going you know that was what time well spent.

[0:17:21] Voice 8: As you say, the trust policy statement is coming together.

[0:17:27] Voice 8: I think probably by September, October, there will be a lot more public-facing meetings

[0:17:34] Voice 8: and such.

[0:17:35] Voice 8: The main thing is the trust policy statement, everything's online and we're talking everything

[0:17:42] Voice 8: going back from almost day one, like every version of the trust policy statement since

[0:17:47] Voice 8: the inception of the trust all the discussions on public input about trustee input everything

[0:17:52] Voice 8: is is there on the website so if you if you want to be a trust policy statement geek

[0:17:59] Voice 8: everything you need to know about everything is there but it's also an important portal if you

[0:18:06] Voice 8: have feedback so if you're reading something you really like it or you're reading something

[0:18:10] Voice 8: and you don't like it put your comments through that portal because that goes

[0:18:15] Voice 8: as part of the public record, but it also goes up to all trustees because if you speak

[0:18:19] Voice 8: to any individual trustee, they're going to do their best to sort of bring it forward.

[0:18:24] Voice 8: But it's the best format is to strip through the website because then it becomes part of

[0:18:30] Voice 8: the trust.

[0:18:31] Voice 8: So IELTS 2050.

[0:18:32] Voice 8: So it's easy to find online and I really encourage people to take the time to read, put together

[0:18:40] Voice 8: your thoughts and and give the feedback because that's going to inform the world forward um

[0:18:46] Voice 8: otherwise we're just we're having a rather busy summer because technically speaking july and

[0:18:51] Voice 8: august tend to be five months of the trust not quite like it is that from my perspective like

[0:18:58] Voice 8: almost every day i have meetings it's there's there's a lot going on um i was wearing an

[0:19:04] Voice 8: alternate hat last couple of weeks because our chair of locum was away on vacation so i was

[0:19:09] Voice 8: acting chair of Hound's Trust for a couple of weeks there. Didn't get overthrown, which was encouraging,

[0:19:15] Voice 8: and that was good enough. And I think the only other thing that was awfully announced is Russ

[0:19:20] Voice 8: Hostenthaler, our CEO, retired in June, and our director of finance,

[0:19:27] Voice 8: the two of you, Bob, stepped in as the intern CEO for the organization. In the few weeks that

[0:19:35] Voice 8: she's been there um she's done some magnificent things and she's she's done like just minor um

[0:19:42] Voice 8: organizational changes have been very positively received by staff and uh we're next couple of

[0:19:48] Voice 8: months we look forward to working with her and we have an active job competition out there for

[0:19:53] Voice 8: the full-time replacement and uh i'm optimistic that uh october that that will be completely

[0:20:00] Voice 8: will be done so we don't know just

[0:20:03] Voice 12: one other thing and just to mention the reason we seem to be

[0:20:07] Voice 12: busier is that um the arms trust voted to have the concept of the committee of the whole adopted

[0:20:18] Voice 12: and and because of that we can have an entire trust council meetings

[0:20:26] Voice 12: meetings where the Trust Council acts as a committee, so it can't make decisions, it

[0:20:31] Voice 12: can discuss extensively, it can make recommendations, but it is a big step forward because it means

[0:20:39] Voice 12: we're not constantly constrained by, you know, you have to have a motion, you have to speak

[0:20:44] Voice 12: to the motion, all that stuff, which really was difficult, you know, and so these committee

[0:20:51] Voice 12: take the whole meetings I think there's an agreement that there might be one per month

[0:20:55] Voice 12: on different topics and they'll be online and they'll be advertised now the most recent one

[0:21:02] Voice 12: was in Canberra but generally speaking there'll be other topics and they won't be in Canberra and

[0:21:08] Voice 12: it's to allow a better discussion before you come to a conclusion and look forward and say okay

[0:21:14] Voice 12: okay, here's the deal.

[0:21:16] Voice 12: Because everybody was quite frustrated

[0:21:18] Voice 12: to get a trust cancelled.

[0:21:20] Voice 12: It was very formally constrained.

[0:21:22] Voice 12: The agenda was prepared

[0:21:24] Voice 12: like weeks, months in advance.

[0:21:26] Voice 12: It had to be very structured

[0:21:28] Voice 12: and very constrained.

[0:21:30] Voice 12: So this is an attempt to

[0:21:31] Voice 12: make discussions better

[0:21:33] Voice 12: and to get people to

[0:21:35] Voice 12: yeah, you know, that's

[0:21:38] Voice 12: just what it is.

[0:21:40] Voice 8: Right, I'll conclude with that

[0:21:42] Voice 8: and we'll hand it over to your

[0:21:44] Voice 8: CRD Corrections? I'm sure you're all familiar.

[0:21:48] Voice 9: Yes, all from my perspective.

[0:21:52] Voice 9: We've been focusing on housing over the last little while, so I don't know if people know,

[0:21:56] Voice 9: but CRD has purchased the land that was Galliano Green on Galliano Island for $675,000.

[0:22:07] Voice 9: dollars and it's a proposed 20 unit affordable housing initiative and we've also put another

[0:22:16] Voice 9: 2.1 million dollars equity financing into that. So far we've got from senior levels of government

[0:22:25] Voice 9: principally because what we hear we're not keen on putting funding into the unhoused trust area

[0:22:32] Voice 9: and because of the significant barriers that they often face with respect to

[0:22:38] Voice 9: um trying to get something

[0:22:40] Voice 9: done on the southern delta island so we'll be looking at putting more

[0:22:44] Voice 9: equity in from a regional district perspective our rural housing has been approved by the board

[0:22:53] Voice 9: and we're going to see some financing uh external financing actually from the

[0:22:59] Voice 9: The MRBT tax, that's a tax on short-term vacation rentals.

[0:23:06] Voice 9: So we'll see about $150,000 being received this year

[0:23:11] Voice 9: to help us start that.

[0:23:14] Voice 9: And additional time will be secured in 2025 internally.

[0:23:20] Voice 9: And that's going to focus on a number of things,

[0:23:23] Voice 9: but one of the principal things is filing secondary suites.

[0:23:26] Voice 9: so we'll be paralleling the provincial program where there's funding if you want put in the

[0:23:33] Voice 9: secondary suite and we continue to focus on housing across our islands i was over there

[0:23:40] Voice 9: prior to this meeting with uh main island uh the salish grove of all the housing people they're

[0:23:47] Voice 9: looking for funding community works funds so my focus is basically on housing has been on

[0:23:54] Voice 9: and we'll continue to get that's it doesn't agree we're done well

[0:24:03] Voice 8: thank you very much for your

[0:24:05] Voice 8: short brief presentation that's not normal

[0:24:07] Voice 8: all righty um so now we have a townhouse um which is normally we ask two or three minutes but

[0:24:18] Voice 8: we're not keeping time so if anybody has any questions or statements or whatever if you

[0:24:24] Voice 8: acknowledge if you just state your name for the record and we'll move on from there so does

[0:24:29] Voice 8: anybody have anything for i'm

[0:24:33] Voice 11: i thought that we were having um a community information meeting

[0:24:39] Voice 11: am i wrong no

[0:24:40] Voice 5: that's the next one on the

[0:24:41] Voice 5: agenda oh

[0:24:43] Voice 11: i see okay thank you okay uh so my name is

[0:24:47] Voice 11: for selling your bank under on saturn island i'm interested in reviving having the advisory plan

[0:24:58] Voice 11: committee on saturn there's been a single issue one on rose and i think particularly with so much

[0:25:09] Voice 11: of the trust the policy statement and various things like that being under

[0:25:17] Voice 11: discussion, and there being a lot of pressure and interest and things like that, but it's

[0:25:23] Voice 11: really good to have a place where the community in a public venue with minutes can have a

[0:25:32] Voice 11: discussion of some of the issues that are here more broadly.

[0:25:36] Voice 11: I don't, I think because you never ran, I've never heard what your views on various things

[0:25:45] Voice 11: are.

[0:25:46] Voice 11: i've read them in the uh in the island you know true

[0:25:50] Voice 12: and i was but i was at the open

[0:25:52] Voice 12: candidate session in the community hall so um yeah and i provided a

[0:26:01] Voice 12: file which is uh stressed so yeah i wouldn't say it's right

[0:26:06] Voice 11: i i think it would be really

[0:26:09] Voice 11: uh good to have some of these um issues that are coming up more discussed with the information

[0:26:15] Voice 11: meeting there's three changes i think rob halloway alluded the last meeting to removing the density

[0:26:21] Voice 11: cap and i think those are all big issues that could be discussed richly with the you know even

[0:26:29] Voice 11: with the public audience or more broadly since we haven't had one for a long time we have a lot of

[0:26:34] Voice 11: new islanders i think that even the language the comprehension of what the trust is about of what

[0:26:44] Voice 11: the zoning, how did it come to be created, is it valuable or whatever your opinion is on it.

[0:26:51] Voice 11: I think people have lost the language and the understanding of why there is a trust area here

[0:26:59] Voice 11: and what does it do, how does it affect you, beyond the fact that you bought a house and

[0:27:06] Voice 11: you seem to be in a certain zone and how is that affected so that when you have your

[0:27:13] Voice 11: Ireland Trust meetings here, we have a public who is familiar with the terms that we're using and

[0:27:24] Voice 11: how they were created. We know that the land used by that belongs to the community and was

[0:27:29] Voice 11: created here on Saturn, the one that reflects Saturn. I don't think that that's known very

[0:27:34] Voice 11: broadly and i think that that would be helpful

[0:27:38] Voice 12: but i fully support any route that we can

[0:27:44] Voice 12: use to get more and broader community involvement and knowledge i would be absolutely delighted i

[0:27:55] Voice 12: mean i've discussed it with anybody who listened but we have a community meeting just to explain

[0:28:00] Voice 12: what the official community plan is and what it contains, all the work that went into it,

[0:28:05] Voice 12: the people who contributed, how it was created, the land use by-law. I would be absolutely behind

[0:28:12] Voice 12: anything. I don't know if the advisory planning committee is necessary. These community and

[0:28:17] Voice 12: creation meetings are, you know, we can hold them whenever anybody wants within reason and,

[0:28:26] Voice 12: And, you know, if they need to be in the evening, if they need to be at lunchtime, if they need to be on Fridays, Saturdays, whatever, we can work around that and we can have as many community information meetings as we want.

[0:28:39] Voice 12: And I've checked that with everybody this morning before we began, because that was the first thing I wanted to say, because this is the first community information meeting.

[0:28:49] Voice 12: been. It happens to be on this project, but the community information meetings can be

[0:28:56] Voice 12: much broader. They are purely for discussion. Decisions are not made. They are open meetings

[0:29:01] Voice 12: for discussion. So I welcome anybody who wants to step forward, any aspect of the community

[0:29:08] Voice 12: who wants to move on creating community information meetings that will broaden and deepen people's

[0:29:18] Voice 12: knowledge of the environment we're in and the regulations and how they came about.

[0:29:26] Voice 12: Right,

[0:29:27] Voice 11: I think the value of the APC is that you have people, if you set an agenda,

[0:29:34] Voice 11: that those people are to have studied that, be knowledgeable, so it doesn't devolve into

[0:29:41] Voice 11: opinions that don't have any background information, sort of reflexive opinions,

[0:29:47] Voice 11: and safe have to be grounded in what's in what we can actually accomplish and what we can do

[0:29:55] Voice 11: and i think that that's valuable yeah

[0:29:58] Voice 12: i would check with

[0:30:00] Voice 12: the procedures because I usually trip over myself with procedures because I'm trying to be

[0:30:04] Voice 12: come all come any and then go no I'm

[0:30:07] Voice 12: trying to be come all come any but I know that the advisory

[0:30:12] Voice 12: planning that that can bring a bunch of constraints and procedural things with it

[0:30:18] Voice 12: and which might not suit the idea of a very open community discussion so all I'm concerned about

[0:30:26] Voice 12: is finding the right fit and we can talk about getting advice from staff on the best way to do

[0:30:35] Voice 12: that. I am happy and

[0:30:37] Voice 11: I am concerned about that people be informed before they come and that it

[0:30:42] Voice 11: doesn't become divisive in the community that it becomes a positive force because people are

[0:30:47] Voice 11: informed and have taken the time to understand what it is that we're actually talking about.

[0:30:51] Voice 11: Yeah, sure. Okay. Thank you.

[0:30:54] Voice 9: Can I ask a

[0:30:55] Voice 9: question of staff? I'm just wondering, it was always my understanding that advisory planning meetings discussed things that were local to the islands.

[0:31:04] Voice 9: And so I've not heard of APCs being involved in discussions like trust policy statement where it affects all islands.

[0:31:19] Voice 9: It just seems like a really unusual thing, but my district trust that you have any,

[0:31:26] Voice 2: I get it.

[0:31:30] Voice 2: So yes, ABCs are driven. So the CDC can only consider information that is referred to them

[0:31:40] Voice 2: by the trust to me. That doesn't mean that it has to

[0:31:43] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: be done, but it has to be done, but it has to be done, but it has to be done, but it has to be done, but it has to be done.

[0:31:43] Voice 2: to be a local issue, the North Bender or the Saturna Island APC could refer the Trust Council

[0:31:50] Voice 2: policy word and get their perspective of their APC to help shape their perspective for their

[0:31:57] Voice 2: islanders as to how that dialogue is for them. So it's not, I would say, it must be referred

[0:32:07] Voice 2: referred is the key job, right? So without a referral, the APC, you're right, cannot go out

[0:32:13] Voice 2: and meet with the public or conduct business as an APC for information that they haven't been

[0:32:19] Voice 2: referred to. They're really intended to be a body of the local trust community appointed by them

[0:32:27] Voice 2: that provides them information and guidance and advice. That's all. Thank you.

[0:32:33] Voice 2: That sounds

[0:32:34] Voice 11: good. Thank you. Great.

[0:32:38] Voice 12: I'm just going to stand to kind of look at myself.

[0:32:43] Voice 10: I've

[0:32:45] Voice 12: been on the route. Long time, part-time person here on the island.

[0:32:54] Voice 12: And coming, you know, pretty cold into violence trust business currently. Although, you know,

[0:33:01] Voice 12: had actively stuck my arm 30 years or so ago on a challenging subdivision issue.

[0:33:07] Voice 12: to make me remember a little bit of that.

[0:33:11] Voice 12: And so my turning up here today was

[0:33:15] Voice 12: triggered by the recent article

[0:33:17] Voice 12: written by Ronald Wright raising concerns

[0:33:20] Voice 12: about the trust council policy review process

[0:33:28] Voice 12: and the open letter from 34 previous trustees also raising

[0:33:35] Voice 12: significant concerns and questions and so when I see 34 past trustees of the

[0:33:44] Voice 12: trust putting up their hands going whoa I'm thinking it's time for me to show up

[0:33:49] Voice 12: so here I am. So thank you for taking

[0:33:54] Voice 4: up the governance roles of trustees. I think

[0:33:57] Voice 4: I think governance is our most

[0:33:59] Voice 12: challenging human issue

[0:34:01] Voice 12: in the current world at local and provincial and national

[0:34:06] Voice 12: and international levels.

[0:34:07] Voice 12: And it's a thankless and increasingly challenging task.

[0:34:11] Voice 12: So thank you for stepping into those roles

[0:34:12] Voice 12: and for making this time available for public comment.

[0:34:20] Voice 12: Specifically with respect to this issue

[0:34:22] Voice 12: that brought me here today, the IT mandate

[0:34:28] Voice 12: is unique and as such you trustees have no clear model for your role and I guess I've heard things

[0:34:41] Voice 4: you know the discussions of the trust have reflected concern that they don't know what

[0:34:45] Voice 4: they're

[0:34:45] Voice 12: doing or they're going to go on or you know etc and also that staff are used to very

[0:34:54] Voice 12: different environments. Planning trust staff are also having to interpret what the heck this very

[0:35:01] Voice 12: unique body does. And they may come from municipal work or provincial work or schools that never

[0:35:07] Voice 12: considered something like the Idaho's Trust. So it's a learning environment for everybody

[0:35:12] Voice 12: and hence challenging. And we all know when we're in new unexplored territory, we fall back to our

[0:35:20] Voice 12: own thinking and our own talents and the

[0:35:22] Voice 12: things we're familiar with and our own tools and uh so

[0:35:28] Voice 12: um you are not a regional district although i have heard

[0:35:33] Voice 4: discussions since i've started

[0:35:34] Voice 4: talking in a few days to people about oh the regional district can do what they're doing

[0:35:40] Voice 4: that's why you're trying to take over that territory and expand to that role it's easier

[0:35:44] Voice 4: it's clearer the regional district should do it this legislation was specifically written

[0:35:50] Voice 12: to differentiate you from a regional district.

[0:35:53] Voice 12: What that actually means on the ground,

[0:35:55] Voice 12: your planners and yourselves have to figure out.

[0:36:01] Voice 12: And nor are you a municipality,

[0:36:05] Voice 12: and certainly the article references

[0:36:06] Voice 12: the challenges of municipalities in this environment,

[0:36:10] Voice 12: tax relationships and the complications

[0:36:12] Voice 12: from following the referendum on Salt Spring

[0:36:15] Voice 12: that has first refused to go in a municipality direction.

[0:36:18] Voice 12: direction.

[0:36:19] Voice 4: And you are not a non-profit environmental group either. So all those models are not

[0:36:26] Voice 4: useful to you. You have a

[0:36:28] Voice 12: unique mandate. And it's also tricky for the public. It's

[0:36:35] Voice 12: not only you who are thrashing around trying to figure out what does this mandate mean,

[0:36:39] Voice 12: and the evolving pressures that we face at this time, population pressures, climate pressures,

[0:36:45] Voice 12: lectures, but the public also doesn't know what this unique body can and should do.

[0:36:52] Voice 12: So a huge education role, even as you're trying to figure it out yourselves.

[0:36:56] Voice 12: So it's not surprising that, you know, it's an ongoing challenge for us all.

[0:37:03] Voice 12: For me, that does not reduce the importance of the mandate and its historical significance.

[0:37:12] Voice 12: And I appreciated both the Laura Wright article and the open letter from Tercey's referencing

[0:37:21] Voice 12: what looked like was very significant work to generate the 1986 report, carefully reviewing

[0:37:27] Voice 12: what does mean, and that that was relied upon heavily in a follow-up 2021 report.

[0:37:36] Voice 12: Those seem to be very thoughtful efforts to find a way through the bushes on this issue

[0:37:42] Voice 12: work very uniquely and responsibly. And I was concerned, and then Heidi Arndt, you know,

[0:37:50] Voice 12: that the chair of the Governance Committee, I believe, said those were not referential documents

[0:37:57] Voice 12: in your deliberations that resulted in Virginia. So whether that's accurate reporting, I don't know,

[0:38:03] Voice 12: but that is a serious concern. So I guess the other thing I would say to you is

[0:38:15] Voice 12: is that you've got a mandate with a specific reference

[0:38:21] Voice 12: to preserve and protect in the long view.

[0:38:24] Voice 12: And for me, that evokes what has become

[0:38:26] Voice 12: one moment's indigenous perspective of seven generations.

[0:38:30] Voice 12: The pressures on other

[0:38:31] Voice 4: bodies like the legal district

[0:38:33] Voice 4: are much more urgent.

[0:38:35] Voice 4: You know, they're responding to current pressures.

[0:38:38] Voice 4: Solve this problem.

[0:38:39] Voice 4: We've got a traffic problem here.

[0:38:41] Voice 4: We've got a whatever here.

[0:38:43] Voice 4: Your mandate is really to assess every

[0:38:47] Voice 12: decision in the light of seven demonstrations.

[0:38:50] Voice 12: And that is quite different and maybe much, much more challenging.

[0:38:57] Voice 12: So I would conclude by asking you to revisit the January 2024 Council Statement.

[0:39:07] Voice 12: Perhaps, I hope that that's the legal advice you've gotten in your encounter recently.

[0:39:12] Voice 12: meeting. So I'm trying to be heartened by that. And also, I

[0:39:23] Voice 12: guess, be heartened that you were challenged to use your

[0:39:26] Voice 12: imagination and creativity. What does this mandate mean? And

[0:39:30] Voice 12: falling back to models that are familiar like regional districts

[0:39:34] Voice 12: or municipalities are not really the heart and soul of the

[0:39:40] Voice 12: mandate as trustees of this union trust. And finally, I

[0:39:45] Voice 12: would conclude the question um just in a little bit of follow-up since um being in touch with you

[0:39:51] Voice 12: i'm getting conflicting information on the status and significance of the january 2024

[0:39:57] Voice 12: council consensus statement um david maude kindly responded to my um email assuring me that they're

[0:40:06] Voice 12: at early stages and i've had other parties assured that they're well along and uh so um

[0:40:15] Voice 12: i understand some something may go public uh in september october from your earlier remarks

[0:40:22] Voice 12: but this feels long potentially monumental if it's a change in perspective um significantly

[0:40:29] Voice 12: takes you away from

[0:40:31] Voice 13: the seventh generation's perspective of the trust thank you very much

[0:40:35] Voice 8: thank you very much

[0:40:35] Voice 13: question do you

[0:40:38] Voice 8: want to touch on where

[0:40:40] Voice 9: we said we have the government's review

[0:40:42] Voice 9: and and well

[0:40:45] Voice 7: just uh it's sure thank you but in the last council meeting

[0:40:51] Voice 7: referencing the letter that you spoke about and some other public comments uh the chair i think

[0:40:58] Voice 7: committed to holding a separate session for the public that would actually address this question

[0:41:04] Voice 7: not the mandate of what exactly was decided by the governance committee that was put forward

[0:41:11] Voice 7: to the trust council for enforcement um and i think we all agree what was put forward was a

[0:41:19] Voice 7: very condensed uh summary of the discussion that perhaps led to a wrong conclusion from

[0:41:28] Voice 7: the interpretation because there was a two background pieces that were and this is what

[0:41:33] Voice 7: the chair it was um uh or actually going as community member trustee bernardo from key silence

[0:41:39] Voice 7: obviously clear failures in communication we didn't get those pieces out we got sort

[0:41:45] Voice 7: of a destroyed summary it led to uh an understanding that differed from what the

[0:41:52] Voice 7: intent was you can't blame people for how they take what you communicate you can only look at

[0:41:58] Voice 7: yourself and blame how you communicate it so i think i would say look to that next meeting

[0:42:04] Voice 7: maybe we'll discuss in september probably

[0:42:09] Voice 7: okay and so because you'll you'll have heard that some trustees say oh with what consensus

[0:42:19] Voice 7: we never agreed to that and so uh right there is a sign of a bit of a problem and so um um

[0:42:27] Voice 7: Um, and also the chair, who's the Councillor Bowen, Judith Getty, she's correct, there

[0:42:34] Voice 7: were documents that weren't part of that analysis and review.

[0:42:38] Voice 7: And so, um, and I would say that probably the most they were trying to do was to understand

[0:42:46] Voice 7: what their judicial responsibilities are as trustees.

[0:42:50] Voice 7: These are all new trustees when it came to making decisions.

[0:42:53] Voice 7: Is it to be concerned only with the environment, or is there another factor that needs to be

[0:43:01] Voice 7: balanced with the environment as in the rural way of life, which is what was understood

[0:43:06] Voice 7: as part of the amenities of the trust area?

[0:43:09] Voice 7: And so their analysis was there needs to be a balance.

[0:43:15] Voice 7: So some would say there has to at least be a consideration of these other factors.

[0:43:21] Voice 7: There was a point that was to make there about that, just in regards to the mandate.

[0:43:32] Voice 7: The governance review report from last term actually spoke of, is the Islands Trust a

[0:43:39] Voice 7: land use planning body with a particular concern for the environment?

[0:43:44] Voice 7: Or is it an environmental trust that uses land use planning as its tool?

[0:43:49] Voice 7: it's not clear from analysis of the organization what it believes and that's what the government

[0:43:55] Voice 7: was trying to tackle and frankly obviously failed uh and needs to revisit i was always

[0:44:01] Voice 7: of the view not to say i totally saw that doing any of that work in camera was a mistake

[0:44:06] Voice 7: because it would look like there was a conspiratory background of what was going on

[0:44:11] Voice 7: there really was there was just innocent new trustees trying to figure their way forward

[0:44:16] Voice 7: who've made it look like they've been operating in the shadows

[0:44:20] Voice 7: and created sort of a parallel understanding of the act

[0:44:24] Voice 7: and, you know, counsel people for having that view

[0:44:26] Voice 7: because that's what happens when you, I think, do extensive work.

[0:44:30] Voice 7: Now, keep in mind, the core of that group are lawyers, right?

[0:44:34] Voice 7: And the chair is an ex-judge.

[0:44:36] Voice 7: And so no offense to any lawyers or ex-judges in the room

[0:44:39] Voice 7: or who may be listening, but they have a certain reverence

[0:44:43] Voice 7: for what they would view as client solicitor privilege.

[0:44:46] Voice 7: I was arguing the client is Dallas Trust.

[0:44:50] Voice 7: Nobody's named.

[0:44:51] Voice 7: We can make this open to the public.

[0:44:54] Voice 7: They are not of that view.

[0:44:56] Voice 7: Call it preservation of their livelihood.

[0:44:59] Voice 7: I'm not sure.

[0:45:01] Voice 7: That's being cheap.

[0:45:03] Voice 7: They'll figure things out.

[0:45:04] Voice 7: But basically, these are some of the steps

[0:45:07] Voice 7: that kind of led to how the governance committee

[0:45:10] Voice 7: went by this business and the um and the uh the result in terms of public communication or lack

[0:45:16] Voice 7: thereof so it needs to be revisited i would say it's not going to lead to a complete reimagining

[0:45:23] Voice 7: of the well it won't be to reimagine the mandate at all in that context um because that that's not

[0:45:31] Voice 7: what they were seeking to do they were just seeking to clarify how when you make a decision

[0:45:35] Voice 7: of say an application, how do you weigh the unique amenity?

[0:45:40] Voice 7: Is it all environment?

[0:45:42] Voice 7: Is it a rural way of life?

[0:45:43] Voice 7: Is it not the above?

[0:45:46] Voice 7: And I'm not sure that the clarity

[0:45:50] Voice 7: that we're looking for doesn't work.

[0:45:52] Voice 7: So that's what I would say there.

[0:45:54] Voice 7: It's not like a showstopper answer.

[0:45:57] Voice 7: As in all your concerns are laid at rest.

[0:45:59] Voice 7: I mean, obviously we hear you

[0:46:00] Voice 7: and I think it's legitimate to have that concern for sure.

[0:46:04] Voice 7: but the work is continuing let's put it that way and will will be uh will be done so in a public

[0:46:11] Voice 7: venue

[0:46:11] Voice 8: from here on in but i think it's important to note that likely in september um trust council

[0:46:17] Voice 8: will be going back to the province reiterating our wish for a review basically of the trust as a whole

[0:46:24] Voice 8: because again we have these gray areas but the other thing that's so important is this whole

[0:46:31] Voice 8: historical perspective because

[0:46:32] Voice 8: a lot of

[0:46:34] Voice 8: what has been said on this topic

[0:46:36] Voice 8: was you're straying away from

[0:46:39] Voice 8: your roots, go back to

[0:46:41] Voice 8: the past and all that. And I would

[0:46:43] Voice 8: point people to the 1975 Trust

[0:46:44] Voice 8: Policy Statement, like our first Trust Policy

[0:46:47] Voice 8: Statement, that entrenched

[0:46:49] Voice 8: and basically

[0:46:50] Voice 8: encouraged logging

[0:46:52] Voice 8: and mining and fishing.

[0:46:56] Voice 8: We're

[0:46:57] Voice 8: an evolutionary organization

[0:46:58] Voice 8: And a lot of what was in addition at the beginning of the Trust is not what is in place today.

[0:47:05] Voice 8: I think if anybody at the Islands Trust or anyone in the Islands talked about mining, people would literally tear it out.

[0:47:12] Voice 8: Yet it is embedded in the Trust Policy Statement in 1975.

[0:47:16] Voice 8: So we are definitely an evolving organization, but 50 years down the road,

[0:47:22] Voice 8: they were at the point where we're asking that there were hopefully again

[0:47:27] Voice 8: without the promise to ask for a review of who we are and what we do and how we're

[0:47:34] Voice 8: visioned because we are basically an agency of the province so we follow the

[0:47:40] Voice 8: mandate of the province and that was part of the encountering that we were

[0:47:46] Voice 8: not discussing it is literally the center of their components the trust

[0:47:50] Voice 8: trust policy statement that are, we're ahead of the game because we don't have potential

[0:47:56] Voice 8: legislation to enable us to actually put those things in the trustable means, right?

[0:48:01] Voice 8: Is that when we did a whole hand carry component, it probably was, instead of being a one hour

[0:48:08] Voice 8: session, it was like a five hour session.

[0:48:10] Voice 8: We just, we went a little bit too far, maybe not down the rabbit hole, but a lot of those

[0:48:15] Voice 8: discussions perhaps should have been in a public venue, but we are where we are.

[0:48:20] Voice 8: and we we almost didn't make a decision what's going on just for anything to do with that yeah

[0:48:28] Voice 8: but

[0:48:28] Voice 12: i'll keep it much shorter

[0:48:30] Voice 8: i

[0:48:31] Voice 12: i would like to and the most challenging thing for me being a

[0:48:40] Voice 12: trustee and for many trustees is the fact that the act is ambiguous 50 years since it was put

[0:48:48] Voice 12: into place it leaves this um opening to constantly debate the meaning of the construction city

[0:48:58] Voice 12: that i was i was kind of astonished when i realized how ambiguous it is and when

[0:49:05] Voice 12: i realized how many times legal advice and debate has taken place and it has caused division

[0:49:13] Voice 12: vision with people who all mean well and want the best for these islands, but who are faced

[0:49:20] Voice 12: with constant dialogue, battle, debate with people who want to push it to the left, to

[0:49:27] Voice 12: the right, to whatever, because the very instructions that we are given are ambiguous and open to

[0:49:34] Voice 12: interpretation and reinterpretation.

[0:49:36] Voice 12: so I was involved in trying to you know refresh re-institute create a corporate planning process

[0:49:44] Voice 12: with the Alice Trust over the last six or nine months and normally there's a checklist you know

[0:49:49] Voice 13: you have a

[0:49:50] Voice 12: mission you have vision you have you know your strategic goals you have your blah blah

[0:49:55] Voice 12: and boils down to okay here's the projects and the budgets and it's fairly clear what we have to do

[0:50:02] Voice 12: do to deliver whatever. Well, we get stuck on what it is we're there to do. But we find

[0:50:10] Voice 12: it hard to condense that. There isn't another local government who constantly debates, discusses

[0:50:18] Voice 12: and reconfigures their mandate, their, I don't even know now whether it's submission or division,

[0:50:25] Voice 12: but they just refer to the same instructions that they got from whatever provincial body

[0:50:30] Voice 12: instigated them and said this is what we're here to do

[0:50:34] Voice 12: now we're going to work. We circled that plug hole over

[0:50:38] Voice 12: and over and I am over

[0:50:41] Voice 12: so over that. So I vehemently

[0:50:46] Voice 12: support the request to the province

[0:50:49] Voice 12: to review the act, the meaning

[0:50:54] Voice 12: the structure, whatever. I don't even care what the outcome is but I want

[0:50:58] Voice 12: it clear and so two years ago at the end of a four-year term it was a unanimous vote from

[0:51:06] Voice 12: the trustees who were knowledgeable by then that there should be a request made to the province

[0:51:12] Voice 12: to review externally the trust act the way it functions the number of trustees who are elected

[0:51:20] Voice 12: per island like there are two trustees for salisbury with population 13 000 there are

[0:51:26] Voice 12: two trustees for South Bender with a population of 350. And so that request was unanimously

[0:51:38] Voice 12: carried. A letter was written, the minister at the time deflected saying oh let's wait and see

[0:51:44] Voice 12: what the next trustees think. Of course the next trustees were asked, I have no idea what rate

[0:51:50] Voice 12: was up but I pushed for that letter to be re-selected for the last 18 months. It is finally

[0:51:59] Voice 12: on the table again. There's pretty much unanimous support from every trustee and it will be on the

[0:52:08] Voice 12: table at Trust Council in September and I'm hoping that another two years later another body of

[0:52:15] Voice 12: trustees which is like 26 the last time the same plus well let's say there were 11 or 12 new ones

[0:52:23] Voice 12: this time so that adds up to a considerable number of trustees who are on seat over the last six

[0:52:29] Voice 12: years saying please please please promise we were created by you 50 years ago it is appropriate that

[0:52:37] Voice 12: you review it every now and again you have reviewed it at time it's time to do it again

[0:52:43] Voice 12: and we're hoping that because of the election that there will be candidates who will pick this up

[0:52:50] Voice 12: and that every candidate will be asked to give their opinion on not necessarily what the outcome

[0:52:59] Voice 12: should be but the fact that it's appropriate that there should be some kind of review and there is

[0:53:07] Voice 12: there is a government process to do that and you know at the moment as far as I know they've been

[0:53:12] Voice 12: asked to step in a Metro Vancouver, of course they do. But you know, for the Isles, we're kind of

[0:53:19] Voice 12: small donations, we have to make ourselves into big donations, basically, and get heard. Anyway,

[0:53:26] Voice 12: so just a

[0:53:27] Voice 12: clarification if I could. So I appreciate that momentum and history you've

[0:53:33] Voice 12: described yet. So why would we? Why? What? Why would the

[0:53:39] Voice 12: council pursue

[0:53:40] Voice 4: a consensus statement that appears to

[0:53:44] Voice 4: broaden the role? While also asking for a formal review? It

[0:53:50] Voice 4: seems to me that the former shouldn't? Why would you move

[0:53:56] Voice 4: out ahead

[0:53:57] Voice 12: of your request for review with a statement?

[0:53:59] Voice 12: because we can't really just stop work pending the review so you know we had an internal review

[0:54:07] Voice 12: which was the government's review which made recommendations so we're working through some

[0:54:12] Voice 12: of those and the trust policy statement update began a long time ago we can't just throw our

[0:54:19] Voice 12: hands up and say well you know nothing would happen until so we have to keep going as best

[0:54:24] Voice 12: best we can and I also feel like if we generally work within the constraints and try to make

[0:54:34] Voice 12: improvements we earn the right to be part of the discussion if you throw your hands up and go this

[0:54:40] Voice 12: is all broken I'm not participating then you don't earn the right to have an opinion on the request

[0:54:47] Voice 12: for the review and the process around that so I think that that's what I'm doing so I'm earning

[0:54:53] Voice 12: in the right to participate by just doing my best to move this creepy beast along anyway

[0:55:02] Voice 12: this

[0:55:03] Voice 5: is

[0:55:06] Voice 9: this is an important and very substantive summary of trustee baller thank you this topic

[0:55:17] Voice 9: The topic is quite a bit different than the topic that is covered in detail under the

[0:55:24] Voice 9: Animal Fund 50 portal, which provides both background documents and a chance to respond.

[0:55:32] Voice 9: Given the importance of what you just outlined, is it appropriate to ask Islands Trust to

[0:55:39] Voice 9: set up some kind of parallel portal that A, captures the civilian documents, and B, allows

[0:55:46] Voice 9: for a response that will get the quarter that's over because 20 the island's 2050 isn't it it's

[0:55:55] Voice 9: this subject is beyond the purview of the animals 2050 so the subject matter but this is this is

[0:56:03] Voice 9: substantial and

[0:56:04] Voice 12: that's a good idea

[0:56:05] Voice 9: i think uh i'm not aware of any central spot in which an

[0:56:11] Voice 9: informed resident could read the letter, read the background, half a dozen documents, and then

[0:56:18] Voice 9: you go to leave a comment, yay or nay. I

[0:56:24] Voice 12: think that's a great idea and

[0:56:27] Voice 12: do we need to make a motion to request that?

[0:56:32] Voice 8: Well, this is probably trust counselling.

[0:56:35] Voice 12: Okay, I'll take that up as an action point. Do you think it's a really good idea?

[0:56:39] Voice 12: because I as much as you guys are frustrated by the fact that all information is provided

[0:56:45] Voice 12: varied in gigantic agendas yeah and I have brought that up as an action item that key documents

[0:56:52] Voice 12: should be standalone available and they are if they're around a program or a project there's a

[0:56:58] Voice 12: lot more information out there that is difficult to find and I am a terrier of information so um

[0:57:05] Voice 12: And, you know, yes, I think that's a great idea that we should have a web portal thing where we put the background and the documents, the letter that was written the last time, and, you know, it's a good idea.

[0:57:19] Voice 12: So it's a

[0:57:20] Voice 9: parallel conversation that doesn't get, and neither conversation gets money.

[0:57:25] Voice 9: Yeah.

[0:57:28] Voice 9: To clarify, to reinforce Maurice's position that trustees have to keep working, it's well

[0:57:37] Voice 9: known that the minister, Nathan Cullen at the time, said if the trust wants to be reviewed

[0:57:43] Voice 9: by the province, you need to get trust counsel to request that.

[0:57:48] Voice 9: that motion for review of the trust yeah everything was in response to the minister's

[0:57:56] Voice 9: statement that if we wanted a review we have to ask for it but we asked for it and the minister

[0:58:04] Voice 9: went oh my god i'm not touching this you know because this is a political hot potato and

[0:58:09] Voice 9: and so there's no reason why the provincial government wouldn't punch it again and again

[0:58:16] Voice 9: and again and again. So this is a difficult situation. It's a difficult thing. And yeah,

[0:58:24] Voice 9: I see, you know, I'm hoping that it becomes an election issue. And, you know, the discussion

[0:58:29] Voice 9: at the time was that it would be an all party, all party review of the trust. So it wouldn't

[0:58:35] Voice 9: be, but it didn't go anywhere. So trustees, continue doing what you're doing.

[0:58:42] Voice 12: And by the way, the recording isn't online yet, but in the afternoon of the Tuesday of

[0:58:48] Voice 12: Trust Council, Adam Olsen was invited to address Trust Council, 50 accelerations, and he spoke

[0:58:55] Voice 12: to the requirement that the province needs to do this review, and the fact that it has

[0:59:01] Voice 12: been on the table and discussed since 2017.

[0:59:04] Voice 12: And he personally has wished for it, spoke to Mr Cullen at the time, and he feels very strongly that it's required.

[0:59:13] Voice 12: And he spoke to the fact that he, as an MLA, represents two thirds of the residents of the trust area.

[0:59:24] Voice 12: And he can see the problems on Salt Spring and everywhere, you know, that needs to be addressed in a coherent fashion.

[0:59:32] Voice 12: and that we can't address them ourselves internally. It's something from the outside

[0:59:39] Voice 12: and it's not something that hasn't been done for the Trust in the past and there have been

[0:59:45] Voice 12: reviews and there have been you know you know discussions and tweaks and changes that we've made

[0:59:52] Voice 12: so yeah it's time again. Anyway when the recording goes online I'll circulate it as best I can.

[1:00:00] Voice 12: there were some issues with the equipment and the recording has to be fixed up in some way

[1:00:05] Voice 12: but adam was very powerful as he is he's a very powerful speaker and and he spoke to it as well

[1:00:14] Voice 12: so

[1:00:14] Voice 9: anybody else have any

[1:00:15] Voice 12: questions all right

[1:00:18] Voice 9: we'll merge into our community information

[1:00:24] Voice 8: um do you want to start with your slides or

[1:00:29] Voice 8: Okay,

[1:00:30] Voice 2: unless you want to have any preface with what you want out of it, LTC, let's go

[1:00:37] Voice 2: to that.

[1:00:39] Voice 6: Anybody have anything else?

[1:00:40] Voice 6: So we'll roll over to you.

[1:01:05] Voice 13: All right.

[1:01:07] Voice 2: Well, I think this is the most people I've seen at a Soutan meeting for a while, so this

[1:01:12] Voice 2: is going to be good.

[1:01:17] Voice 2: So yes, today's community information meeting, the intent of a community information meeting

[1:01:22] Voice 2: is to provide the opportunity for the community to engage in discussion with the local trust

[1:01:27] Voice 2: committee and to get your answers or your questions answered, both myself and the local

[1:01:36] Voice 2: trust committee. It's not really intended as a place where you're supposed to really

[1:01:40] Voice 2: express your views or your opinions in public hearing, but of course it often meanders into

[1:01:48] Voice 2: to that. So just be mindful of that as you speak. So I'm just

[1:01:52] Voice 2: going to walk through a bunch of slides here. And half the slides

[1:01:56] Voice 2: are related to the actual project that the trustees are

[1:01:59] Voice 2: working on. And since we have a pretty light

[1:02:01] Voice 2: agenda today, I've

[1:02:02] Voice 2: included a bunch of slides on broader trust initiatives around

[1:02:08] Voice 2: housing. There's a lot of work going on in the Islands Trust on

[1:02:11] Voice 2: other islands, and more broadly at the Trust Council and at the

[1:02:15] Voice 2: regional planning level. So I'm just going to walk through that and that might give you some ideas

[1:02:21] Voice 2: around what other things you could look at in the future as well as what some other approaches are

[1:02:27] Voice 2: taking to what you're really kind of looking at with the review of your multiple family

[1:02:33] Voice 2: residential zoning. So agenda, a quick project overview, a background on the three main issues

[1:02:45] Voice 2: within the project scope, and then an update on broader trust-housing initiatives, and

[1:02:51] Voice 2: then questions and answers.

[1:02:54] Voice 2: So LCC has made this their priority nine-year project.

[1:02:58] Voice 2: The project purposes is pretty specific to three items to review current system requirements

[1:03:05] Voice 2: for water storage, secondary suite mapping, and multiple-family residential zoning OCD

[1:03:10] Voice 2: policies.

[1:03:15] Voice 2: policies. And this will be posted online. So if you want additional information, there is a project

[1:03:21] Voice 2: page on the stress webpage. So a project school, as we just spoke to, and I'll speak to these a

[1:03:28] Voice 2: little bit more detail, but review Schedule C of the land use bylaw, which essentially shows where

[1:03:34] Voice 2: you need to have a cistern to build. Review Schedule E for secondary suites, which essentially

[1:03:41] Voice 2: shows you where you cannot have a secondary sweep and that mapping was largely determined

[1:03:47] Voice 2: through saltwater. That map was largely derived through underlying saltwater intrusion mapping

[1:03:55] Voice 2: with concerns around water supply impacts of increased secondary sweeps. And then reviewed

[1:04:02] Voice 2: the multi-family residential. So we just spoke to you. So we're just deliverables and timelines.

[1:04:08] Voice 2: we're here at this community information meeting. At the next meeting staff will bring a more

[1:04:12] Voice 2: detailed report to the local trust committee summarizing each of these things with data

[1:04:18] Voice 2: review and analysis. This

[1:04:22] Voice 12: timeline is just draft. I mean, if we had to have 10 community

[1:04:30] Voice 12: information meetings at any stage, all those dates would change. Just to emphasize that

[1:04:36] Voice 12: to everyone that the community information meeting similar to this one which was just

[1:04:41] Voice 12: discussion and information once they're scheduled and whatever people want this entire timeline

[1:04:48] Voice 12: would shift to accommodate that okay. Or you could

[1:04:51] Voice 12: certainly fit a CIM for

[1:04:53] Voice 2: example at the October

[1:04:54] Voice 2: meeting you could have another CIM in your regular meeting just probably the easiest approach

[1:04:59] Voice 2: certainly, to having them unless there's a real desire to see like an evening web-based approach or something like that.

[1:05:07] Voice 2: But yes, you can have even a standard spot.

[1:05:12] Voice 2: And so this is just from your project charter.

[1:05:15] Voice 2: What

[1:05:15] Voice 12: did you do?

[1:05:17] Voice 12: Anyway, I'll talk to you about it later, but as procedural times.

[1:05:21] Voice 12: So

[1:05:22] Voice 2: this is just timelines for the desired project with the petition of October 2025 which would involve by-law amendment changes, working through the legislative process to do all that, and referral to the executive committee.

[1:05:38] Voice 2: And in this case it would be changing your OCP minister's review as well.

[1:05:42] Voice 2: So just the first item, the cistern provision. So on the left there in the land's file, 2.17

[1:05:50] Voice 2: requires that a dome permit will not be issued for anywhere within the only East Point water

[1:05:59] Voice 2: management area at this time. That's a cistern capacity of 21,820 liters and 4,800 gallons

[1:06:06] Voice 2: is provided. Nowhere

[1:06:08] Voice 3: else on the

[1:06:08] Voice 2: island is a cistern requirement.

[1:06:13] Voice 2: So the LTC is considering,

[1:06:15] Voice 11: can you make that larger? I don't know if other people can read it. I can't. I can read the second part of it. I can't read the smaller and you're speaking really quickly. And I'm not keeping up very well. Maybe

[1:06:28] Voice 11: everybody else is.

[1:06:31] Voice 2: So that's just our cut and paste the top piece from the actual bylaw provision. And it essentially just says that you need a building permit anywhere to build in that

[1:06:41] Voice 2: that zone area on the map on the right, to get a building permit you have to have water stored at 4800 gallons.

[1:06:50] Voice 2: And so what the LTC is proposing or considering is broadening that provision to extend everywhere across the island

[1:07:00] Voice 2: And so that anywhere you build a new dwelling or cottage, you would be required to have water storage.

[1:07:11] Voice 11: Okay, so you're talking about Saterna Beach, Narvis Bay Road, absolutely everything.

[1:07:18] Voice 11: So that's what

[1:07:19] Voice 2: the scope of the LTC is directed staff to look at.

[1:07:23] Voice 11: but

[1:07:23] Voice 2: there's certainly through this community dialogue if there are areas where a system

[1:07:30] Voice 2: could not be included then that is up to the community and LTC to decide if the map is

[1:07:39] Voice 2: removed and it's just everywhere and then you could just simply move to you know

[1:07:45] Voice 2: change this wording and get rid of the schedule because it applies everywhere or you could amend

[1:07:49] Voice 2: the schedule to have other areas mapped that are permit or not permit.

[1:07:56] Voice 11: So the proposal is that every single new structure built on Ceterna...

[1:08:01] Voice 2: Every dwelling or cottage structure is like an accessory building that doesn't have a

[1:08:06] Voice 2: lot of heat. So it would really be tied to the construction of a dwelling or a cottage,

[1:08:13] Voice 2: a residential structure.

[1:08:15] Voice 2: structure.

[1:08:17] Voice 11: Does it matter if the water is potable or non-potable?

[1:08:20] Voice 2: So this is where the challenge is

[1:08:24] Voice 2: sometimes and some of the obstacles the trust is only land use planning function we only have the

[1:08:31] Voice 2: land use planning service whereas the municipality of Saanich has the land use planning service and

[1:08:36] Voice 2: and all the other services fire and water and sewer and all of those things they're all wrapped

[1:08:42] Voice 2: into one uh we don't we only have the planning service so we can only require the systems we put

[1:08:48] Voice 2: on the property we can't um we don't have a mandate the legislative mandate to require that

[1:08:56] Voice 2: they be hooked up and using public but you would hope the assumption would be that if someone went

[1:09:01] Voice 2: to all that expense especially with the changing climate changing groundwater levels so yes there

[1:09:10] Voice 2: is a limit to what we can require but we can't so really all that we can require is that the

[1:09:18] Voice 2: building be equipped with the system. We can't necessarily require that.

[1:09:24] Voice 12: Can I check something

[1:09:26] Voice 12: with you Brad? At East Point it's also if you change the building it doesn't have to be a new

[1:09:32] Voice 12: new dwelling, but he makes significant changes. So if you added, I think, a bedroom or extended

[1:09:41] Voice 12: building, you would have to put in some more additions. So is there addition for residential

[1:09:46] Voice 12: building?

[1:09:50] Voice 12: So

[1:09:50] Voice 11: this is the only place at this point, not the turn where this is required?

[1:09:54] Voice 4: Correct.

[1:09:55] Voice 4: At this point?

[1:09:56] Voice 4: That's correct.

[1:09:57] Voice 4: Thank you.

[1:09:58] Voice 4: And that was a function of saltwater intrusion, is that correct?

[1:10:03] Voice 12: Yes, and I live out there and there are many, many houses out on East Point who rely entirely

[1:10:11] Voice 12: on water collection and have done so just because they needed to and, you know, it's

[1:10:20] Voice 12: successful and so it's a good way forward.

[1:10:24] Voice 12: Yeah.

[1:10:31] Voice 2: Just so you're aware, the Local Trust Committee does have a standing resolution in support

[1:10:37] Voice 2: of rainwater catchment as a viable water supply when creating new lots, so at time of subdivision,

[1:10:42] Voice 2: your LTC is endorsing rainwater catchment as a viable solution. I think with the changing

[1:10:51] Voice 2: changing in technology and catching up with regulations. I think it will be a more standardized

[1:10:58] Voice 2: approach as necessity takes hold.

[1:11:01] Voice 3: So you're talking about one of those giant green, you're calling that a cistern, those

[1:11:05] Voice 3: giant green plastic things?

[1:11:08] Voice 2: Sometimes they're giant, sometimes it's three or four. Sometimes

[1:11:11] Voice 2: they're built right into

[1:11:13] Voice 3: the base.

[1:11:13] Voice 3: That's what that is.

[1:11:14] Voice 2: Yeah. Some of the new builds, they build right into the house.

[1:11:18] Voice 2: So that

[1:11:18] Voice 11: adds cost to anybody who wants to build a house. So being you're building a house, then you have to install that as you build it, or you wait for the owner to say.

[1:11:30] Voice 9: It's a requirement of a building permit application.

[1:11:34] Voice 9: That's a part of the law.

[1:11:36] Voice 13: That's a part

[1:11:37] Voice 13: of the law.

[1:11:39] Voice 2: So with the CRD, when someone submits a building permit application to the CRD, prior to that

[1:11:48] Voice 2: they need to submit their plans to the out-of-stress and we review their plans against our by-laws.

[1:11:53] Voice 2: And so in that review, for example, if he had submitted our plan, we would then catch

[1:12:00] Voice 2: that and they would need to require showing their plans that system to do it.

[1:12:07] Voice 2: As

[1:12:08] Voice 9: a note to that, I'd just like to bring up, is there any way that the

[1:12:13] Voice 9: animal system, the CRD, could come up with a single plan for rainwater catchment, rather

[1:12:19] Voice 9: than every time we make a new application for the 70-yard lots on this side that are

[1:12:25] Voice 9: not developed, the engineer charges go to $10,000.

[1:12:29] Voice 9: So that's going to be a lot of money.

[1:12:33] Voice 9: And if it was one standardized plan that everybody could follow, it would be a lot

[1:12:37] Voice 9: more money in the homeowner's pocket i did talk to david baird about that and uh he said it's

[1:12:45] Voice 9: regularly required that each one is is gotten its regulatory by the cops so we're just gonna

[1:12:53] Voice 9: i also note that he's driving a brand new for lightning pickups so again

[1:13:01] Voice 11: how much would you

[1:13:01] Voice 11: you'd say that as to um building um

[1:13:04] Voice 9: dollars of engineering and forty thousand dollars

[1:13:11] Voice 12: so how much is it to drill well that's on how deep the lines

[1:13:16] Voice 12: to the ballpark numbers

[1:13:19] Voice 9: range yeah it's about forty dollars of what

[1:13:22] Voice 9: i believe there's no use drilling well out there obviously right

[1:13:30] Voice 11: so you're trading one cost for

[1:13:33] Voice 11: Yeah.

[1:13:34] Voice 9: And there's uncertainty on rainwater catchment, there's uncertainty on most.

[1:13:38] Voice 9: Yeah.

[1:13:40] Voice 13: Well, this came up when this final of the rainwater catchment was

[1:13:45] Voice 12: first established.

[1:13:46] Voice 12: There are several private water systems on the island, including the CRD water system

[1:13:52] Voice 12: in the Nile, and I would assume that at some point that would be factored in.

[1:13:58] Voice 12: and we have a very well maintained water system

[1:14:03] Voice 12: in that part of the western end of the island.

[1:14:07] Voice 12: Has that been considered, or has it been discounted?

[1:14:11] Voice 12: In

[1:14:11] Voice 2: terms of including it on the map,

[1:14:13] Voice 2: I would say we're at a really early stage in this project,

[1:14:16] Voice 2: and that this is really the first thing

[1:14:17] Voice 2: we're going to try to strand that.

[1:14:19] Voice 2: And I think some

[1:14:22] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: referrals to the CRE

[1:14:23] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: don't

[1:14:23] Voice 2: understand what their perspective is on

[1:14:28] Voice 2: Yeah. So certainly, there's lots of

[1:14:32] Voice 2: small, so I'll be asking you to see here.

[1:14:36] Voice 9: Yeah, I've been

[1:14:36] Voice 9: really small already. So how many affordable secondary

[1:14:40] Voice 9: suites secondary suites they could support. And so just as an

[1:14:45] Voice 9: example, better. They said they're quite happy supporting

[1:14:49] Voice 9: the 10 or 10 secondary suites.

[1:14:53] Voice 9: so i'll do what you're saying sure 10. so 10 for magically

[1:14:58] Voice 9: got a lot i don't like some of the misinformation that's out there

[1:15:04] Voice 9: having secondary sweet uh zone doesn't double the densities and other attacks

[1:15:08] Voice 9: i

[1:15:09] Voice 12: have something just to add to your question the private water systems the last time the schedule

[1:15:19] Voice 12: was created, they were excluded. Only the CRD zone was allowed to have separate suites.

[1:15:27] Voice 12: Private water systems were deemed to be kind of unreliable. So I dispute that because they

[1:15:34] Voice 12: are regulated and they are very closely managed. So I would argue that the private water systems

[1:15:42] Voice 12: should, similar to CRD, be at liberty to say how many secondary suites they think they

[1:15:48] Voice 12: could support and just manage it themselves within that community who are reliable by

[1:15:56] Voice 12: the water system to support them.

[1:15:57] Voice 12: So rather than from the outside say yes or no, they should be asked to put forward.

[1:16:05] Voice 12: But that's just my opinion.

[1:16:11] Voice 11: my experience of being of having a private water system which is my house in the bakery

[1:16:16] Voice 11: is that it's completely unregulated just in case you're interested that's

[1:16:21] Voice 12: so for um

[1:16:22] Voice 12: i have a country uses it no no no okay i hope that the private water system domestic use

[1:16:31] Voice 12: wants anything

[1:16:32] Voice 9: over two residences is considered a private water system

[1:16:35] Voice 9: it's regulated, it has to have two cover, not

[1:16:39] Voice 11: what you said, over two,

[1:16:41] Voice 9: two, okay, well it

[1:16:43] Voice 11: does matter to me,

[1:16:44] Voice 9: right, is regulated, they have that regular testing, you know, the requirements, and we hear that they're going to change that,

[1:16:53] Voice 9: I think in Alberta, it's 15, minimum of 15.

[1:16:58] Voice 9: So it's quite a burden on some of the really small systems.

[1:17:01] Voice 9: But obviously, if you're just on a well with a single family resident,

[1:17:05] Voice 9: you are not regulated at this time.

[1:17:09] Voice 12: So, Priscilla, just to clarify, is yours because you need a license

[1:17:15] Voice 12: because you're using more than domestic use water?

[1:17:18] Voice 12: It's not a water system in the same way as potable water

[1:17:22] Voice 12: for a number of residences. Am I right or wrong?

[1:17:26] Voice 11: The well is used with bakery water and the well is

[1:17:30] Voice 11: used with the, for some small agricultural

[1:17:36] Voice 11: reason because the water, the gravity feed water plugs up

[1:17:39] Voice 11: the lines. I think that's a

[1:17:42] Voice 12: little bit...

[1:17:43] Voice 12: I

[1:17:43] Voice 11: just want to tell you, you might want to look into the regulation and the oversight

[1:17:47] Voice 11: on that. Sure.

[1:17:49] Voice 12: Okay. You

[1:17:50] Voice 11: would be surprised

[1:17:51] Voice 11: to me. Nothing surprises me anymore.

[1:17:55] Voice 12: Okay, good.

[1:17:56] Voice 11: Well, you stated it so clearly. I just wanted you to know from that perspective,

[1:18:05] Voice 11: some of us who are on that,

[1:18:07] Voice 12: that what you've said does not apply.

[1:18:10] Voice 12: I realize that I've spent most of my life in some sort of holy amish 90 days, basically.

[1:18:21] Voice 11: So I appreciate the way we're going through this. It's most informative for me from your point of view and experience.

[1:18:31] Voice 11: so a question that i have in that um saltwater intrusion is is simply the general

[1:18:38] Voice 11: assumption and knowledge that punching more wells in at east point of grass all the way along

[1:18:44] Voice 11: the perimeter is invites saltwater intrusion at this time just like the general knowledge like

[1:18:51] Voice 11: you know that that's a problem is that that's what

[1:18:56] Voice 11: you're basing it on like sort of

[1:18:57] Voice 11: like i

[1:18:58] Voice 11: would look at that it's not

[1:19:00] Voice 11: like you have data to back that up certainly

[1:19:02] Voice 2: provincial yeah

[1:19:04] Voice 2: there's a lot of data to to back that up i'm going to speak to that okay

[1:19:08] Voice 3: thank you just

[1:19:11] Voice 9: to return to

[1:19:12] Voice 9: ian's point uh it would seem to me that there should be a solution which is deemed to comply

[1:19:18] Voice 9: by and um it is somewhat disheartening to realize that you would require an individual assessment

[1:19:29] Voice 9: for every law although it should be a template that's repeatable has the committee made the

[1:19:36] Voice 9: representation to this interpretation of the rules that um because it seems to me

[1:19:44] Voice 9: that when I heard any presentations on POTL, there's a sense among the folks who design

[1:19:53] Voice 9: these systems that they are repeatable and they should be a template and to imagine that

[1:20:01] Voice 9: we would not accept that and that we would require an individual assessment on a per

[1:20:08] Voice 9: per residence basis doesn't make sense.

[1:20:11] Voice 9: So I would recommend that we do whatever we can

[1:20:16] Voice 9: to support that approach to minimize the costs

[1:20:21] Voice 9: associated with those types of savings.

[1:20:23] Voice 9: And that term deemed to comply

[1:20:26] Voice 9: is a relatively simple solution.

[1:20:30] Voice 2: Senator Smith.

[1:20:31] Voice 2: Mr. Chair, I think that the regulatory decision maker

[1:20:35] Voice 2: here is not there and I'm stressed with respect to uh improving water

[1:20:39] Voice 2: systems uh their time and

[1:20:42] Voice 2: subdivision or a time to build uh our source you know we're really around that just planning and uh

[1:20:53] Voice 2: like as you just said they need to look at each one individually because that's their

[1:20:58] Voice 2: due diligence role but I don't see why uh property owners couldn't collaborate to reduce

[1:21:05] Voice 2: engineering costs to come up with a solution that works for all of them to submit individually.

[1:21:10] Voice 2: So that is how potentially you could find some

[1:21:15] Voice 9: synergy there with cost savings.

[1:21:17] Voice 9: I don't think we did learn that I think a CIRA sponsored symposium right here is that

[1:21:25] Voice 9: there's certainly different areas within the self-governance that are that require different

[1:21:31] Voice 9: different systems. And indeed, there are some areas, I don't know, where it wouldn't put in

[1:21:43] Voice 9: because of some of the pollutants and other things in the air. So that was that.

[1:21:55] Voice 12: so in that vein and even you're a resident expert here today on wells anyway and i think

[1:22:06] Voice 12: the provincial guideline on making wells suitable is that you are supposed to hire a registered well

[1:22:15] Voice 12: well-driven company, but they don't go farther than that,

[1:22:22] Voice 12: most of the design, et cetera, et cetera, do they?

[1:22:24] Voice 12: So I'm just wondering,

[1:22:26] Voice 12: is there a kind of a water system registration group

[1:22:32] Voice 12: where we pick one of those?

[1:22:34] Voice 12: Then they, yeah, they're certified in some way.

[1:22:39] Voice 12: There's a system where it could be

[1:22:41] Voice 12: HAB-Masyn Moyer- So delegated.

[1:22:43] Voice 12: HAB-Masyn Moyer- yeah.

[1:22:46] Voice 12: HAB-Masyn Moyer-

[1:22:48] Voice 9: This is only with new building permit applications on the side area required.

[1:22:56] Voice 9: HAB-Masyn Moyer- A design green water system or used to be able to just draw on a napkin.

[1:23:00] Voice 9: it requires an actual engineer to sign off on it. It's coming in around ten thousand dollars

[1:23:08] Voice 9: per bill, so it's a substantial bill for the maintenance and what costs have been related.

[1:23:17] Then when you have all of these added

[1:23:19] Voice 9: engineering costs involved,

[1:23:21] Voice 9: well, there's no system. I'm actually here because my father can't be or support rainwater

[1:23:29] Voice 9: protection as a you know a potential solution for um new subdivision purposes

[1:23:36] Voice 9: so

[1:23:38] Voice 12: just moving

[1:23:45] Voice 2: on here secondary suites we've covered a lot around the cistern piece and i

[1:23:50] Voice 2: think there's a bit of overlap here perhaps uh with some of the daily community so

[1:23:55] Voice 2: also in your land use file under the secondary suite provisions uh secondary suites are not

[1:24:01] Voice 2: permitted in the areas that's having moderate to high aquifer vulnerability as depicted in the

[1:24:07] Voice 2: map to the right. So wherever there is dark shading on the map, a secondary suite is not

[1:24:14] Voice 2: currently permitted. Can I just add to that?

[1:24:19] Voice 12: The vulnerability that was specifically used

[1:24:24] Voice 12: was the vulnerability to saltwater intrusion.

[1:24:28] Voice 12: It wasn't a general thing.

[1:24:31] Voice 12: It was very specific.

[1:24:32] Voice 12: It came from the Cardinals,

[1:24:34] Voice 12: and it was the risk of the vulnerability to saline intrusion.

[1:24:39] Voice 12: Yeah, okay.

[1:24:41] Voice 12: So

[1:24:41] Voice 2: this map was based on 2018 data

[1:24:44] Voice 2: that has since been updated to a new data source.

[1:24:48] Voice 2: And so the Local Trust Committee

[1:24:51] Voice 2: The Local Trust Committee is considering updating their secondary suite map to reflect the new Saltwater Intuition Map, which I'll show you in a minute.

[1:25:00] Voice 2: The Local Trust Committee

[1:25:02] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: could also consider other

[1:25:03] Voice 2: information when determining where secondary suites may be appropriate.

[1:25:10] Voice 2: They could look at groundwater recharge mapping, pump thread mapping. There's also work going on with land suitability analysis.

[1:25:19] Voice 2: What's pump

[1:25:20] Voice 3: threat mapping?

[1:25:21] Voice 3: Pump

[1:25:22] Voice 2: threat mapping, that same provincial report, is the threat of

[1:25:28] Voice 2: the contamination we have through pumping. So if you're conducting a pump test.

[1:25:33] Voice 2: So in the province, you need to drill a well and you need to get a hydro.

[1:25:40] Voice 2: If you're getting through the water, through groundwater, you need to not just drill the well with a professional driller.

[1:25:46] Voice 2: you need a professional hydrogeologist to conduct a pump test typically where they'll go pump the

[1:25:52] Voice 2: well for 12 or 24 or 72 hours continuously and this map shows the threat of that pumping and so

[1:26:02] Voice 2: the higher the threat of pumping the less viable that water source may be over time for domestic

[1:26:13] Voice 2: to be doing.

[1:26:13] Voice 12: So my understanding is that the very action of the requirement which is to pump the

[1:26:22] Voice 12: well to test it at maximum is a threat to the aquifer so for instance a pump threat would be

[1:26:32] Voice 12: that if you were dreading close to the recommendation to avoid saline intrusion

[1:26:38] Voice 12: is in an area of risk you should have a well that's more than 50 feet away from the post

[1:26:44] Voice 12: but you could say yes but if I drill that well there and I follow through on the recommendations

[1:26:52] Voice 12: with respect to this test there is a risk that I will you know bring in some instruction on day one

[1:27:00] Voice 12: of the life of this well so there are a lot of things around wells that are a bit I guess if

[1:27:06] Voice 12: you're up in the back of a hill or a mountain someplace and generally they work pretty well but

[1:27:12] Voice 12: there are things it's like an older concept and some of the requirements around proving

[1:27:20] Voice 12: water using the well can actually create a risk in themselves

[1:27:29] Voice 8: middle of the island a farm was basically doing some wildlife adjustments

[1:27:36] Voice 8: mistake planning type stuff. So literally just moving wires and a piece of paper and the

[1:27:41] Voice 8: approving officer required to send me to our pump test on a hundred year old well, destroy the well.

[1:27:47] Voice 8: They got it and I say it wasn't on the coast in the middle of the island. It got salt water

[1:27:52] Voice 8: intrusion. It never, so it was fine for 100 years and if it's moving a couple lines to a piece of

[1:27:59] Voice 8: paper the requirement was to do that pump test and it actually did a lot of damage. So I'm very

[1:28:05] Voice 8: they can be scary.

[1:28:10] Voice 10: They assume an abundance of water, yeah, which the islands give.

[1:28:17] Voice 10: Well that's a sobering thought.

[1:28:20] Voice 2: So on the screen now is the map I just showed you

[1:28:25] Voice 2: the previous ones and this is the new saltwater intrusion mapping and so you can see

[1:28:33] Voice 2: none of this area would likely change if we're talking about the yellow and orange and red

[1:28:38] Voice 2: as being your more vulnerable areas, but perhaps you could gain some provision for secondary

[1:28:47] Voice 2: suites in this area here. A lot of the areas are still captured in the new data set, but

[1:28:57] Voice 2: I think that's the way you ought to do it. Just to go on is the swapping of this with

[1:29:02] Voice 2: that and we'll have to do some mapping analysis to figure out what lots fall where and what to do

[1:29:07] Voice 2: with lots where maybe those kinds of decisions that will come with more information on the staff

[1:29:14] Voice 2: so

[1:29:14] Voice 11: if you um have um made i would say what do you call it like general intelligence that

[1:29:23] Voice 11: uh no wells what are you saying like within 50 feet of the of the surrounding ocean

[1:29:30] Voice 11: I think

[1:29:30] Voice 2: the previous was anywhere in yellow, orange, or red, you can't have a secondary suite.

[1:29:38] Voice 2: And so you see, like all in here is orange and yellow, and it's all marked off there.

[1:29:46] Voice 2: And all in here is all marked off there.

[1:29:50] Voice 2: But maybe to Trustee Boland's purpose, the point, maybe you can gain some loss back in this.

[1:30:00] Voice 2: do mapping where there's more green than there was before yeah right yeah but the new mapping

[1:30:06] Voice 2: assess the risk is lower on some lots than the previous mapping that there are different

[1:30:11] Voice 2: methods with a better day out

[1:30:13] Voice 2: and so i think it would be a matter of overlaying this map

[1:30:17] Voice 2: to the old map and then seeing kind of where lots might be picked up in green that were

[1:30:23] Voice 2: were previously identified, and then the LCC deciding if they would then roll those orders again.

[1:30:29] Voice 12: And we're just gathering information at this stage. We need to consider it.

[1:30:35] Voice 11: Correct.

[1:30:36] Voice 11: So I would like to put forth on my land, one thing we do have kept pretty close watch on

[1:30:46] Voice 11: for the last five years is the big pond that we have as part of my land.

[1:30:52] Voice 11: and um it is the recharge is diminishing and uh the small stream that feeds it

[1:31:00] Voice 11: in once we get rains and that period is contracting uh is almost for the last three

[1:31:09] Voice 11: years three weeks for me or i didn't mention to you so do you have any assessment of um

[1:31:18] Voice 11: of the diminishment in that area or maybe there

[1:31:24] Voice 2: is groundwater recharge mapping which is

[1:31:27] Voice 2: how quickly uh this map is

[1:31:30] Voice 2: not based on that uh this time and the ltc could consider

[1:31:37] Voice 2: the mapping analysis instead of doing uh including that or not it's up to the local

[1:31:44] Voice 2: trust committee to determine?

[1:31:46] Voice 11: Well, since the to preserve and protect is still a mandate that

[1:31:50] Voice 11: we're working under, it seems like that would be a wise thing to do. In the last, seems like five

[1:31:57] Voice 11: years, we've had quite, in my experience, on a piece of land that I own, we've had quite a change

[1:32:03] Voice 11: in the amount of water that falls on it.

[1:32:05] Voice 2: Keeping in mind that this discussion is just around the

[1:32:08] Voice 2: construction of a secondary suite where there is an enormous amount of uptake on units.

[1:32:12] Voice 2: And

[1:32:13] Voice 9: CRE has recently, certainly in the last six months, done a full assessment of the weather projections over the next, I think it's 30 years, which includes all of our islands.

[1:32:27] Voice 9: So it's available on the CRE. When I say the CRE, I'm talking about a number of consultant firms who made that very detailed.

[1:32:37] Voice 11: This map is very detailed.

[1:32:39] Voice 9: The CRE has done climate modeling, forecasting, rainwater, temperatures, snowfall, sea level rise, the whole thing, and they've done, you know, lightly screening this, so there's a lot of variations, and so with respect to rainfall, we're saying drier summers, I'm just generalizing, drier summers, wetter, and warmer.

[1:33:09] Voice 9: But the information is there, but that's great. That

[1:33:12] Voice 11: sounds very useful to apply to this map.

[1:33:17] Voice 12: What would be some keywords to find that information on the CERN website?

[1:33:24] Voice 9: Email tbrant.com and I will find it for you.

[1:33:33] Voice 12: That sounds like a very useful tool.

[1:33:41] Voice 12: that's that's the document if there is a web page that i can you know on facebook

[1:33:51] Voice 12: yeah

[1:33:51] Voice 9: that'd be impossible

[1:33:55] Voice 12: i can start the nation's best job

[1:33:57] Voice 9: well i guess the other the other big database already

[1:34:01] Voice 9: already in existence around one of the solution reports 2021 when we ran about 300 babies yeah

[1:34:08] Voice 9: um there's been a couple people they don't do deep dive on those but it had recharge rates

[1:34:16] Voice 9: et cetera et cetera by aquifer so it's out there it's paid for um it's it's there so it might be

[1:34:27] Voice 9: have useful readers. And

[1:34:30] Voice 12: there was my informal survey where 50 respondents are collecting

[1:34:37] Voice 12: 300,000 gallons of water on the island. So that's pretty cool.

[1:34:45] Voice 11: Do we still have the test wells that

[1:34:48] Voice 11: we had while we're going? Yes. There are two observation

[1:34:51] Voice 12: wells, one of Ventricola and one

[1:34:53] Voice 12: up in Miami at this point. Great and all that information

[1:34:56] Voice 11: is available online. Okay so we're

[1:34:59] Voice 11: still gathering data and those are true whales that are not used, there's no drawdown on them?

[1:35:03] Voice 12: No, they're just observation miles how the data is held by the province and I can share that with

[1:35:10] Voice 12: people as well. Yeah we go in and download gigantic spreadsheets of data etc. Yeah it's all there.

[1:35:22] Voice 9: Oh, I would just, I have them here, so if you're

[1:35:26] Voice 11: selling them, I can give you a copy of it and print it.

[1:35:30] Voice 11: Well, what I was interested in is have we set a baseline and are we continuing to gather information? That's my interest. Thank you.

[1:35:52] Voice 2: So the last topic that the local trust committee is considering, and I think probably the most

[1:35:57] Voice 2: complex one to dive into, and probably the one with the most flexibility or creativity,

[1:36:04] Voice 2: depending on where the trustees want to go, is the multiple family zoning.

[1:36:11] Voice 2: So currently you do have a multi-family, multiple family residential zone, but it's limited only to the purposes of providing affordable senior specialty housing, which is specifically defined in here.

[1:36:22] Voice 2: land use by-law and you can see that's the provision there in by-law. This is built on

[1:36:32] Voice 2: OCP policies and so the land use by-law is the regulatory by-law that defines

[1:36:37] Voice 2: what you can and cannot do. The OCP is the broader community vision and it has policies within it

[1:36:45] Voice 2: that generally the land use by-law provisions need to be consistent with as a whole and so the OCP

[1:36:52] city

[1:36:52] Voice 2: policies are pretty limiting, in particular this one where multiple family use may only

[1:37:02] Voice 2: be permitted in the one which is four units per acre and in particular owned by a non-profit

[1:37:10] Voice 2: society, or the other provision 120% of the primary residents permitted on the lot to

[1:37:15] Voice 2: rezoning for multiple family use. So you're not going to get very many extra units on

[1:37:21] Voice 2: your lot unless you have a massive lot you're going to build one apartment building in the corner with

[1:37:25] Voice 2: a whole bunch of uh residential densities and so uh uh i think moving forward you will if you want

[1:37:36] Voice 2: to consider multiple family zoning or a sex accessory density units or you know all of those

[1:37:45] Voice 2: kind of different uh pieces

[1:37:46] Voice 2: uh just to point out uh and so if you wanted to amend your multiple

[1:37:52] Voice 2: for families zoning. You would have to also maybe it will see

[1:37:56] Voice 2: the policies I think if you want to create

[1:37:59] Voice 2: is

[1:38:00] Voice 3: that because of density,

[1:38:01] Voice 2: because of that revision there,

[1:38:03] Voice 2: which would be a direct conflict with, say, a proposal to building

[1:38:08] Voice 2: units on a small lot. If that if that small lot doesn't have it

[1:38:14] Voice 2: would need, you know, you can only build if it only has one

[1:38:18] Voice 2: or two densities, you can only build one two and a half units

[1:38:21] Voice 2: with the 120%. So it's a really limiting clause, which at one point, the intent of multiple family zoning was to have a non-problem with the traditional affordable housing.

[1:38:34] Voice 2: But certainly, the trustees of the community can revisit how you're interpreting multiple family zoning and look at your OCP,

[1:38:44] Voice 2: not only the specific policies around the multiple family zoning itself,

[1:38:50] Voice 2: but also your OCP has some really strict density provisions.

[1:38:56] Voice 2: So unlike some of the other items where there are mechanisms in the OCP

[1:39:01] Voice 2: to increase density, so through right now, you know,

[1:39:07] Voice 2: through subdivision either allowing more lots than are currently allowed

[1:39:11] Voice 2: it within the OCP and the underlying zoning bylaws or allowing more density on a lot for example

[1:39:21] Voice 2: right now there's a minimal property size to get an accessory cottage

[1:39:29] Voice 2: and that the more densities really it's used many different ways but when

[1:39:34] Voice 2: planners talk about density on a lot if a house in the cottage is there we would count that as

[1:39:40] Voice 2: like two residential densities. So I think you have this clause that there's no resilient

[1:39:49] Voice 2: development permit, temporary permits, or other kind of total device available to increase

[1:39:54] Voice 2: the maximum subdivision capacity or total residential density of any island. Secondary

[1:40:00] Voice 2: suites are excluded. So if you want to look at accessory density units, for example, and

[1:40:06] Voice 2: So secondary suites that are really become a cottage.

[1:40:12] Voice 2: There's a lot of work to work through. I think it's possible.

[1:40:16] Voice 2: And that was my point, Rob, in previous meetings is that it's

[1:40:23] Voice 2: just it is quite complicated when we start to talk about

[1:40:27] Voice 2: increasing density on your island because of the strong OCP

[1:40:32] Voice 2: be provisions clarification

[1:40:35] Voice 9: when you talk cottage is that not and then there's year-round use is

[1:40:41] Voice 9: that why you use the term cottage uh

[1:40:44] Voice 2: why

[1:40:45] Voice 9: isn't it just 1000s the

[1:40:47] Voice 2: cottage is accessory it's an

[1:40:51] Voice 2: accessory used to the primary residential use which is that dwelling but it can still be

[1:40:58] Voice 2: absolutely that's why we count it as a dead city in terms of it's essentially a small house but you

[1:41:05] Voice 2: you don't you don't have the

[1:41:08] Voice 2: automatic right to a cottage it is granted accessory based on your

[1:41:12] Voice 2: lot size space and

[1:41:14] Voice 12: is it limited to a thousand square feet it's

[1:41:17] Voice 2: a limited almost all of it so

[1:41:19] Voice 10: intended to be an

[1:41:20] Voice 2: accessory probably uh earlier on on the trust days it would have been like a

[1:41:27] Voice 2: family cottage more often than not but of course uh more and more now housing is becoming a second

[1:41:34] Voice 2: union with us uh it also enables if you have a house of cottage uh and like the many islands

[1:41:40] Voice 2: uh you can't have a short-term vacation rental for example unless it's through home business

[1:41:45] Voice 2: this and

[1:41:45] Voice 2: you're living in one or the other so you're

[1:41:49] Voice 11: in the residence

[1:41:52] Voice 9: does the commercial zone center and i allow multiple residences it's a commercial center

[1:42:00] Voice 9: it does it's not your problem so it's corporate you've got three fun there i believe so that

[1:42:10] Voice 9: does allow a multi-family gasoline it is a multi-family thing and it allows it's very

[1:42:18] Voice 9: specific to that particular piece of land piece

[1:42:21] Voice 9: of land yeah nothing says that you can't do that

[1:42:25] Voice 9: i mean it's there so it's got to be supported by our

[1:42:28] Voice 2: cvs but it's a zoned commercial right it's

[1:42:32] Voice 2: not zonal so that policy for multiple family residential it's

[1:42:37] Voice 11: not selling commercial oh it

[1:42:39] Voice 9: is okay well the map is incorrect wait

[1:42:42] Voice 11: what i meant to say is that the oep is not so

[1:42:46] Voice 11: no he's not speaking to commercial

[1:42:49] Voice 12: zone he's speaking over to him

[1:42:52] Voice 12: just

[1:42:53] Voice 9: saying you could zone something commercial and you could have

[1:42:57] Voice 9: three residential units on it so you could have somebody could have three

[1:43:03] Voice 9: residents on a commercially zoned property i would think that that would conflict

[1:43:10] Voice 9: I

[1:43:10] Voice 2: would start with that clause there that says no rezoning or other device available should be announced to, so that would increase the residential.

[1:43:21] Voice 2: That's true, but you could also transfer density, though we've done that before. Or you could amend your OCP, is what you could do, to enable higher density or, you know, this.

[1:43:35] Voice 10: Well, there's a lot of reasons to deeply consider that before that move is made.

[1:43:39] Voice 2: That's my, is that it's a, there is a lot to consider for your community, whereas your

[1:43:44] Voice 2: OCP is set up to really limit density for

[1:43:47] Voice 6: the purpose of limiting density

[1:43:50] Voice 2: on your island.

[1:43:51] Voice 2: And so you need to decide as a community if that's something that we're going to start

[1:43:55] Voice 2: to move away from, if you're going to start talking about, I mean, you can start talking

[1:44:01] Voice 2: like density transfer which is what you know you're seeing on the lots of pain road for example which

[1:44:06] Voice 2: uh you know

[1:44:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: there are density transfer provisions

[1:44:08] Voice 2: that don't conflict with this because you're just

[1:44:11] Voice 2: moving densities around so you could you know like with ilios all those densities you could

[1:44:20] Voice 2: transfer those to a small lot and then allow us an apartment building on that lot but you

[1:44:25] Voice 2: But you have to find those densities to do that in your current OCP model.

[1:44:32] Voice 2: If you want to have a model where there's somewhere you're not transferring densities,

[1:44:38] Voice 2: you're creating new densities for that type of housing,

[1:44:41] Voice 2: you would need to, I think, consider these key OCP policies.

[1:44:48] Voice 2: Very good point.

[1:44:49] Voice 2: Trustee Ball.

[1:44:51] Voice 12: So, Brad, maybe you can explain to me, but I believe that Parks Canada in the land that was transferred to them, they absorbed 150 densities of the original densities that were in the OCP, so we lost, but how can they have done that?

[1:45:12] Voice 12: how did what would have been the mechanism for that and could we revisit that because theoretically

[1:45:19] Voice 12: they should have put some role into the bank I would have thought so of the original 800 densities

[1:45:27] Voice 12: that Citerna community plan agreed which was useful in the transfer of land to Parks Canada

[1:45:36] Voice 12: of 150 densities were taken out of that 800. So that's quite an awesome rejection. It's a

[1:45:45] Voice 11: significant 150 as well. There was a

[1:45:47] Voice 11: lot of discussion around that at the time. You might

[1:45:49] Voice 11: want to revisit some of that. And some of it was the balance between the amount of people that

[1:45:54] Voice 11: would then be visiting and coming on to the island. Okay. So there were a lot of reasonable

[1:46:01] Voice 11: both reasons okay consideration but it may be an opportunity to find

[1:46:07] Voice 12: density transfer opportunity

[1:46:09] Voice 12: if the community desires it for specific person it might be but it's just worth considering in

[1:46:15] Voice 12: context of the original plan that's where we are now you might not want to cover 150 but

[1:46:22] Voice 12: 10 or 20 might release the number

[1:46:24] Voice 11: i think also there were some federal um jurisdictional issues

[1:46:29] Voice 11: yourself with that which i can't we have that discussion fully at the end section

[1:46:33] Voice 11: and i can't remember how long salient

[1:46:36] Voice 12: details but it's actually quite interesting even over

[1:46:40] Voice 12: and above the process it's just the knowledge that the original plan has been reduced so

[1:46:47] Voice 12: there's an opportunity if you wanted to change the maximum to go up a little not back to the original

[1:46:53] Voice 12: The

[1:46:55] Voice 9: social contract on the island was 800, they think there would be 2,000 or 2,500 people on that basis.

[1:47:03] Voice 9: We're close to that. And the one thing we should all remember is that this is our island,

[1:47:10] Voice 9: and so the residents can determine what is appropriate for the island or not.

[1:47:15] Voice 9: But it's not within some of the rules that the residents can be elected officials at the time, which is why we're here, which is why we're there.

[1:47:28] Voice 10: It's unfortunate. It

[1:47:30] Voice 12: isn't the basis, but

[1:47:32] Voice 10: it depends on water.

[1:47:35] Voice 12: And no, it doesn't depend on water. Water catchment takes that out of the situation entirely.

[1:47:41] Voice 12: and, you know, we can find solutions around water.

[1:47:45] Voice 12: The wells on Saturna, there are places where they do not work,

[1:47:49] Voice 12: but there are places where they work perfectly well.

[1:47:51] Voice 12: So wells are not intrinsically bad

[1:47:54] Voice 12: and our groundwater is in pretty good shape.

[1:47:58] Voice 12: We just have to manage it carefully.

[1:48:01] Voice 11: Why would we bother to manage it carefully then?

[1:48:03] Voice 11: Pardon?

[1:48:04] Voice 11: Why would we bother to manage it carefully then

[1:48:06] Voice 11: if there isn't any problem with the well front?

[1:48:08] Voice 11: Well,

[1:48:10] Voice 12: I mean you could have saline intrusion. You have no knowledge really of the future of the well.

[1:48:17] Voice 12: You just go day to day and hope for the best. Wells change, the geology changes.

[1:48:21] Voice 11: So a precautionary principle might be useful?

[1:48:24] Voice 12: Yeah, but not around your management of it, not preventing certain things, just using knowledge to manage how you use that

[1:48:35] Voice 12: tool and that utility.

[1:48:40] Voice 12: And

[1:48:40] Voice 8: the thing is, water sometimes tends to be a red herring, because it's very much focused

[1:48:49] Voice 8: on wells.

[1:48:51] Voice 8: And so if your energy is into limiting development, and you point to a well and say, well, we're

[1:48:58] Voice 8: going to restrict it that way, half-remember is that people can do things like desalinization,

[1:49:03] Voice 8: rainwater catchment.

[1:49:04] Voice 8: There's a lot of other ways of providing water.

[1:49:08] Voice 8: So if that's the line of the sand that the Global Trust Committee decides to use,

[1:49:13] Voice 8: it's not necessarily Western-controlled development because there are other options.

[1:49:19] Voice 11: So thinking about development, I would think that you say that you're very interested in housing

[1:49:25] Voice 11: and increasing housing and we're talking about multiple-family zoning or secondary suites,

[1:49:30] Voice 11: which I think are attempts to increase lower-cost housing

[1:49:35] Voice 11: because obviously all of the houses along the coast are um you know we're a market economy

[1:49:41] Voice 11: and they go for the highest amount of money so the thought is how can we increase

[1:49:47] Voice 11: uh little places for living in right places that are more affordable is that the goal here

[1:49:57] Voice 9: well secondary suites are the most environmentally appropriate way to increase

[1:50:02] Voice 9: groups. Okay, so that's what we're focusing on. Right. Okay,

[1:50:07] Voice 9: maybe anywhere. And what

[1:50:10] Voice 11: do you mean that can be anywhere,

[1:50:12] Voice 11: couldn't

[1:50:12] Voice 9: be anywhere, whether they're on the coast, or

[1:50:15] Voice 9: whether they're in the interior. You know, I

[1:50:18] Voice 12: thought our maps

[1:50:18] Voice 12: showed that they couldn't be in that

[1:50:21] Voice 12: your

[1:50:21] Voice 9: neighbors have very much attachment, there's a huge amount

[1:50:25] Voice 9: of rainwater attachment in in winter. They're fully supported

[1:50:32] Voice 9: So why would you restrict it if they're on rainwater catchment, if you're worried about

[1:50:39] Voice 9: Maybe

[1:50:39] Voice 12: I'm just misunderstanding the map we saw.

[1:50:41] Voice 12: That's the current map.

[1:50:43] Voice 12: And which was excluded all those areas.

[1:50:47] Voice 12: So it's an

[1:50:48] Voice 12: open box.

[1:50:49] Voice 12: So if you're on rainwater catchment, then a secondary suite might be considered.

[1:50:55] Voice 12: Okay, I didn't understand that.

[1:50:58] Voice 9: And strength of water, apparently.

[1:51:01] Voice 9: Like, and strength is gone.

[1:51:04] Voice 9: But Sharon, I'm sure there's also desalination.

[1:51:09] Voice 11: So how does that become, just as a general question,

[1:51:13] Voice 11: how does that become economically viable?

[1:51:18] Voice 11: A little contrary to your point,

[1:51:20] Voice 11: I notice more and more trucks going out to East Point with water.

[1:51:23] Voice 11: so somebody's buying water for whatever use that they may have it so i i don't see how

[1:51:31] Voice 11: water is not a constraint so i'll leave it to you i

[1:51:34] Voice 2: think that

[1:51:38] Voice 2: water is definitely a constraint as to where you're going to build a multi multi-unit building

[1:51:44] Voice 2: and you wouldn't be doing these on these point of groundwater and regulations around a multi-unit

[1:51:51] Voice 2: building probably with rainwater catch probably getting more complex gas and engineering

[1:51:56] Voice 2: how about

[1:51:58] Voice 11: a desalination plant

[1:52:00] Voice 11: probably

[1:52:00] Voice 2: yes yes uh but i think just getting back to like where the trustees are or where

[1:52:09] Voice 2: the community has brought this concern to the trustees and consider i just think that

[1:52:14] Voice 2: the community is looking for ways uh in your bylaws to have a lot where you have three or

[1:52:20] Voice 2: four units on it instead of just one. I think that's fair to say. Almost I think for affordable

[1:52:30] Voice 2: living but also for retirement in

[1:52:32] Voice 6: place or living in place on your island.

[1:52:35] Voice 2: So what I obviously think

[1:52:36] Voice 2: I agree from some members of this community is

[1:52:39] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that they have

[1:52:39] Voice 2: their great big

[1:52:40] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: house and

[1:52:41] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that and they have nowhere to move to

[1:52:42] Voice 2: because those units just don't exist, right? A small

[1:52:49] Voice 2: And, um, right now we're going to go see the, the northern lizard and east bioware.

[1:52:58] Voice 2: I think that's the crux of the multi-family. And maybe I should just get through my slides here.

[1:53:04] Voice 4: And then

[1:53:05] Voice 2: while I'm done with the actual project stuff, and I just have, uh, just to look through

[1:53:11] Voice 2: these really quick. These are just an overview of the island's housing initiatives across the trust

[1:53:17] Voice 2: there's maybe 10 or 12 slides here borrowed from Narissa who's our regional planner working on.

[1:53:23] Voice 2: So

[1:53:23] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: all across the

[1:53:24] Voice 2: trust area the trust council level as well as at the local trust level there's

[1:53:29] Voice 2: housing initiatives because housing is a challenge to everyone of course. So there's all these

[1:53:34] Voice 2: different programs going on around housing. I'll just speak to a few of them really quickly.

[1:53:41] Voice 2: So there

[1:53:42] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: is a housing

[1:53:43] Voice 2: strategy and the LTC could be considering some of these other options to allow increased flexibility.

[1:53:57] Voice 2: And so this is obviously not going to read that on the right, but this is just a housing strategy.

[1:54:02] Voice 2: So it's got a list of strategies and I'm going to be like, I've got some goals for each of those.

[1:54:09] Voice 10: And

[1:54:10] Voice 2: the main bulk of work that staff have been doing to prepare is developing a housing toolkit.

[1:54:15] Voice 2: It includes process templates, background information, so compilation of all the different studies and resources available.

[1:54:22] Voice 2: A lot of new mapping tools and then templates around action and strategy templates.

[1:54:28] Voice 2: place. North Pender, my other local trust committee there, working on a broader housing

[1:54:34] Voice 2: affordability and access project, which is applying this toolkit. So it's about to focus

[1:54:42] Voice 2: the LTC discussion and form the development of a housing action plan in associated business

[1:54:48] Voice 2: cases with the project charters. These are populations that are bigger than your island,

[1:54:53] Voice 2: but these are things that your LTC could turn their mind to in the future, applying the

[1:54:57] Voice 2: to get building efficiency and consistency across the trust area, which is always a challenge

[1:55:02] Voice 2: with so many different elected bodies trying to fit into the same space. And we'll speak

[1:55:11] Voice 2: a little bit to me in this process to look over the furthest ahead. Chair Modest is a

[1:55:15] Voice 2: very evolving network.

[1:55:16] Voice 10: And I was at the

[1:55:17] Voice 2: very beginning of that first discussion with the

[1:55:20] Voice 2: folks on the police and personal

[1:55:22] Voice 2: options. So

[1:55:23] Voice 10: just some demographics

[1:55:24] Voice 2: here that our planner

[1:55:28] Voice 2: and they're

[1:55:30] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: hard to see but these will be

[1:55:31] Voice 2: shared but this shows what uh kind of the

[1:55:33] Voice 2: role the island's trust has in you know development of housing uh and then this is regional districts

[1:55:43] Voice 2: so we're managing ecosystem protection the number and size and usability through zoning

[1:55:49] Voice 2: the distances to setbacks, development permit areas, lot coverage, floor coverage, subdivision regulation reviews.

[1:55:58] Voice 2: And then the regional districts have all those other services I talked about that other municipalities would typically provide,

[1:56:06] Voice 2: along with the planning service, the building inspection, plumbing inspection, parts management,

[1:56:14] Voice 2: And then you have your provincial agencies, roads and access, subdivision approval, groundwater

[1:56:19] Voice 2: licensing, which is critical in any development.

[1:56:25] Voice 2: And road barrier protection.

[1:56:28] Voice 2: That's

[1:56:28] Voice 4: a very helpful graphic.

[1:56:30] Voice 4: Yeah.

[1:56:30] Voice 4: You're making goals.

[1:56:32] Voice 2: Super

[1:56:32] Voice 10: talented guy.

[1:56:33] Voice 12: Are they available?

[1:56:35] Voice 12: Can you make big posters?

[1:56:36] Voice 12: Yes.

[1:56:43] Voice 2: So again, I'm not reading this, but just to show the details, this is a baseline report

[1:56:49] Voice 2: which would be conducted at the very start, following through with the process later on

[1:56:56] Voice 2: toolkit.

[1:56:58] Voice 2: Another tool is a whole list of different zoning policy options that are looking at

[1:57:06] Voice 2: alternative density units instead of a secondary suite? Is a cottage the same as a secondary suite?

[1:57:12] Voice 2: Or could you call that, you know, how do you redefine a secondary suite to not have to be

[1:57:19] Voice 2: contained, for example?

[1:57:22] Voice 10: Right now it has to be

[1:57:24] Voice 2: contained within the primary building,

[1:57:27] Voice 2: so the secondary suite is an apartment essentially within a house. Could you broaden the definition

[1:57:34] Voice 2: or a scheme where you limit the total floor area a lot if they're allowed to build more than one unit so that the floor footbridge is the same as their one 4,000 square foot house but they're limited to a 1,500 square foot house at two accessory buildings.

[1:57:56] Voice 2: So those

[1:57:57] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: are the kinds

[1:57:57] Voice 2: of other creative solutions that you could be looking at here

[1:58:00] Voice 2: here to, you know, look at

[1:58:04] Voice 2: options to increase density or to build a smaller, more manageable

[1:58:10] Voice 2: unit on your property, or whatever that looks like for people. There is a lot of stuff that

[1:58:17] Voice 2: is going on at the trust level that's considering this. It's not

[1:58:23] Voice 2: the only item that has these

[1:58:25] Voice 2: concerns i think other

[1:58:26] Voice 2: items it seems less here uh because you have less services that you have less

[1:58:33] Voice 2: housing uh worker shortage uh here i'm sure you have some shortage of housing for workers

[1:58:40] Voice 2: but uh you know islands where there are services businesses that has been real

[1:58:55] Voice 2: for sure. But but but not as

[1:58:59] Voice 2: precious. The pressures are higher.

[1:59:04] Voice 2: So the suitability analysis that we talked about, not just looking at one or two

[1:59:09] Voice 2: layers or all sorts of different types of data to then help to inform where is it

[1:59:15] Voice 2: more appropriate to put a higher density condo or apartment building in an area

[1:59:23] Voice 2: where there's good recharge, there's low impact of salinity, there are a lot of other wells around,

[1:59:29] Voice 2: so this kind of precursor information can help to speed decision making. And then an action plan,

[1:59:38] Voice 2: so one of the outcomes of this work is that to develop a really specific action plan for that

[1:59:43] Voice 2: community to then implement, not only with legislative and by-law amendments to perhaps

[1:59:49] Voice 2: changes only to allow for a flexible density scheme like I talked about, but also broader goals.

[2:00:00] Voice 2: I haven't seen all those other things. That's an implementation

[2:00:03] Voice 2: table. I won't speak to any of it other than just to say there's a heck of a lot of detail to explore.

[2:00:11] Voice 2: So just on main, so they introduced flexible housing zoning. David could speak to more of the work, but this flexible housing for residential dwellings

[2:00:20] Voice 2: with the combined maximal flora, just what we talked about, and with cistern requirements.

[2:00:26] Voice 2: So that's one, rather than rezoning multiple family, you can look at some flexible types

[2:00:35] Voice 2: of approaches to eliminate footprint and enabling. But I still think you would have to think

[2:00:43] Voice 2: about your OCP provisions and how the density limits fit into those changes. You can always

[2:00:50] Voice 13: a measure of

[2:00:50] Voice 2: safety as well. Make it a little more flexible while still maintaining the intent of

[2:01:02] Voice 2: you know your goal of minima of you know keeping density relatively low.

[2:01:11] Voice 2: That provision right now is to essentially say that this is the carrying capacity.

[2:01:16] Voice 2: I agree in some sense, like those densities gone from the park they're gone, they're not really retrievable in a sense, but you could argue

[2:01:26] Voice 2: that those densities were

[2:01:29] Voice 6: considered reasonable

[2:01:30] Voice 2: at one time and can be.

[2:01:34] Voice 2: Yeah.

[2:01:35] Voice 2: That's

[2:01:36] Voice 13: all I have.

[2:01:37] Voice 13: Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[2:01:41] Voice 13: Any other questions?

[2:01:44] Voice 12: Just something to chat about. So what we're looking at here is all the definitions in the recipe on the animal feed.

[2:01:53] Voice 12: The actual map where the zones are plugged, there is only one area zoned MFR alone, which is where Carefree Port is, and it's two acres.

[2:02:09] Voice 12: So there could be another four units there, but there's some reason why that can't happen.

[2:02:15] Voice 12: ALR.

[2:02:16] Voice 12: ALR, okay.

[2:02:18] Voice 12: Is that another thing that could be investigated?

[2:02:23] Voice 9: We did investigate it in a previous term.

[2:02:25] Voice 9: There has been a change, obviously, in senior management of the ALR.

[2:02:30] Voice 9: We talked to the chair, and we said it doesn't make any sense.

[2:02:33] Voice 9: It's really scrap agricultural land.

[2:02:37] Voice 9: It would be, we were going to have to use the church property, which they agreed to

[2:02:41] Voice 9: for a second.

[2:02:42] Voice 9: It was so important.

[2:02:44] Voice 9: And the church at the time said, you can apply, but we're not going to change our policy.

[2:02:49] Voice 9: And I said, why not?

[2:02:50] Voice 9: That's 13 cents.

[2:02:51] Voice 9: They said, it's policy.

[2:02:53] Voice 12: Yeah.

[2:02:54] Voice 12: But there isn't,

[2:02:56] Voice 12: there wasn't maybe the ratio on this.

[2:02:59] Voice 9: It's about $10,000 for a reassessment.

[2:03:02] Voice 9: Yeah.

[2:03:02] Voice 9: Okay.

[2:03:03] Voice 9: And so if you find people that are willing to go up to $10,000 to apply to the Agricultural

[2:03:09] Voice 9: Land Commission, it has to be done through the local trust committee.

[2:03:13] Voice 12: Yeah.

[2:03:15] Voice 9: Oh, we know all about that.

[2:03:17] Voice 9: Yeah.

[2:03:17] Voice 9: Anyway.

[2:03:18] Voice 9: Okay.

[2:03:19] Voice 9: It's just a function of you want to put a ton of money at it before you test the appetite.

[2:03:24] Voice 9: Yeah, yeah.

[2:03:26] Voice 12: Just information.

[2:03:27] Voice 12: information and it's just worth knowing that in changing these definitions, you haven't

[2:03:33] Voice 12: actually applied it to anything yet. So it's not like we've opened floodgates and anything

[2:03:38] Voice 12: can happen. There'll still be a process to change how that is applied to the map as it

[2:03:44] Voice 9: exists.

[2:03:45] Voice 9: The other point I'd like to make is floodgates. So when Secondary Suites was

[2:03:50] Voice 9: was attempted before, the double density on the back.

[2:03:57] Voice 9: More recently, Dr. Bell indicated that

[2:04:00] Voice 9: put secondary suites in and you'll double the density.

[2:04:03] Voice 9: The empirical evidence, the reality,

[2:04:06] Voice 9: is that when we open the dense,

[2:04:10] Voice 9: like on bone allow, secondary suites,

[2:04:13] Voice 9: well, they've got, I don't know how many lots,

[2:04:16] Voice 9: I think it's 2,500, I believe in the last 10 years

[2:04:18] Voice 9: they have two or three secondary suites built because they're really expensive, right? And so

[2:04:26] Voice 9: the floodgate is just something used by people to kind of scare people, small and scary.

[2:04:33] Voice 8: And it gives me another perspective, like we ended up with secondary suites five or six years ago.

[2:04:40] Voice 8: I don't know what one's been built. It's because unfortunately through the process of building code

[2:04:47] Voice 8: So, as interpreted by CRD, it's very expensive.

[2:04:50] Voice 8: You have to have two water services, two electrical services,

[2:04:53] Voice 8: full wire separation.

[2:04:55] Voice 8: So, economically speaking, it's not really viable,

[2:04:58] Voice 8: especially as a retro.

[2:04:59] Voice 12: The new provincial regulations are going to go to bed,

[2:05:05] Voice 12: and I don't think a secondary suite is not two connections.

[2:05:11] Voice 12: But it's being tested.

[2:05:13] Voice 12: We

[2:05:14] Voice 13: had a question.

[2:05:19] Voice 12: It

[2:05:19] Voice 2: will be. We'll post it online. If you just Google Ceterna Island Trust Projects, there's

[2:05:28] Voice 13: a

[2:05:28] Voice 2: project space and it will be up on the link. And the links there, you can...

[2:05:34] Voice 12: It's good.

[2:05:35] Voice 12: It's very concise

[2:05:35] Voice 11: and gives you what you need.

[2:05:39] Voice 11: so just thinking if secondary suites are not um successful or

[2:05:46] Voice 11: a viable way of providing do we call it more lower cost housing for people either to buy

[2:05:56] Voice 11: or rent are you talking just rental housing what what's the goal here um that would be

[2:06:03] Voice 11: you what are what are you trustees looking at well

[2:06:09] Voice 8: i think from a main island perspective

[2:06:12] Voice 8: we were trying to open up opportunities not floodgates but opportunities the flex housing

[2:06:18] Voice 8: is just the idea was say if if you have a lot and you can build 4 000 square foot house

[2:06:24] Voice 8: we're saying well maybe you can build a 2 000 square foot house and 2 000 square foot cottages

[2:06:29] Voice 8: So basically, it was almost like a density transfer idea was saying, you can do this

[2:06:35] Voice 8: or you can do that.

[2:06:36] Voice 11: So your trading footprint.

[2:06:37] Voice 8: Yeah.

[2:06:38] Voice 8: So that was the concept with the flat housing.

[2:06:40] Voice 8: With the secondary suites, I think literally it's just saying, well, here's something you

[2:06:44] Voice 8: can look at when you're building as an option.

[2:06:48] Voice 8: So there's...

[2:06:49] Voice 8: It's a

[2:06:51] Voice 4: long term rather than a short term.

[2:06:53] Voice 8: It's a long term, an extra term, rather than sort of known as there hasn't been a lot of

[2:06:56] Voice 8: uptake.

[2:06:57] Voice 8: is that there are certainly several

[2:06:59] Voice 8: houses that have enabled it

[2:07:00] Voice 8: but there has not been, at the end of the day

[2:07:03] Voice 8: the homeowner has not had an interest

[2:07:05] Voice 8: in doing it. So it's

[2:07:07] Voice 8: maybe not as dramatic

[2:07:08] Voice 8: as the numbers might seem. Sir?

[2:07:12] Voice 8: Is a tiny

[2:07:13] Voice 8: home, tiny house

[2:07:15] Voice 9: considered a secondary suite?

[2:07:17] Voice 9: Certainly they can be

[2:07:19] Voice 9: put in for

[2:07:20] Voice 9: a very affordable

[2:07:24] Voice 8: amount of money.

[2:07:25] Voice 8: But basically speaking

[2:07:27] Voice 8: They often have secondary suites that are considered to be contained within the house.

[2:07:32] Voice 8: They're not separate from the house. So with flex housing it would work.

[2:07:36] Voice 8: So you're saying you're allowed 4,000 square feet?

[2:07:40] Voice 8: Well, you can go separately smaller.

[2:07:45] Voice 8: Secondary suite is contained within the structure.

[2:07:49] Voice 14: So it has to be an apartment within the building.

[2:07:52] Voice 14: So that is where the

[2:07:55] Voice 2: secondary suite provisions would allow that, when you could look at some kind of more flexible, and maybe you could speak, Chairman, to how you, how you're flexible housing, like you don't have the same OCP provisions that limit density in the same way, right? Or how did you get around that?

[2:08:13] Voice 2: we

[2:08:14] Voice 8: know we don't have the ocp provisions but it was the the original premise and it was about

[2:08:21] Voice 8: dining homes um what it was saying well rather than build a great big house let's look at

[2:08:29] Voice 8: building smaller stuff but maybe more smaller things um and sort of be flexible on a case-by-case

[2:08:37] Voice 8: spaces and and so it was basically the trustee dots was the first initiator and it was called

[2:08:43] Voice 8: tiny home and it was and it was because we had people in ireland saying well my daughter i want

[2:08:52] Voice 8: to bring her over to main island i'd like to get a tiny home but you can't do it and that sort of

[2:08:58] Voice 8: that started it and then it worked out to this big project which became flat housing so instead

[2:09:03] Voice 8: of speaking the narrow boss of tiny houses we said well any sort of dwelling unit then let's

[2:09:10] Voice 8: let's open up the opportunities and again there hasn't been a lot of update we put it in place

[2:09:16] Voice 8: just over a year ago i don't think anybody's done anything yet there's no lot of interest

[2:09:21] Voice 8: but the difficulty now with the new um step building going on building is not economic

[2:09:27] Voice 8: My neighbor, he's putting up maybe an 800-square-foot house.

[2:09:33] Voice 8: It's unbelievable.

[2:09:34] Voice 8: They're making him put in two-by-eight walls.

[2:09:38] Voice 8: It's just like when he originally envisioned this project

[2:09:42] Voice 8: five or six years ago, the cost tripped.

[2:09:47] Voice 8: And so this concept of, okay, I'll put in a cottage

[2:09:51] Voice 8: in the back of my garage from being maybe a $6,000 or $8,000 project,

[2:09:55] Voice 8: it's now a $300,000 or $400,000 project.

[2:09:58] Voice 8: and so that is the economical limitation so you can put the you can throw the floodgates over

[2:10:06] Voice 8: but unless you have people within the economic order to execute but

[2:10:12] Voice 11: you're solving this by

[2:10:13] Voice 11: having the government pay for it yes

[2:10:15] Voice 9: but depressingly i'm just going to suggest

[2:10:17] Voice 9: tiny homes are illegal and so we've been lobbying the bc government so it was very very similar

[2:10:26] Voice 9: And so, for instance, the Galliano project, which is 20 units, $14 million, $700,000.

[2:10:40] Voice 9: That's not exactly what I would consider affordable at $700,000.

[2:10:44] Voice 9: That's a mixture

[2:10:45] Voice 9: of one bedroom, three bedrooms, three bedrooms.

[2:10:49] Voice 9: On the peninsula.

[2:10:51] Voice 9: It's all a rental.

[2:10:52] Voice 9: Yes.

[2:10:54] Voice 9: but the construction costs the multi-story units you know 18 stories whatever it's 500 to 550

[2:11:02] Voice 9: 000 again the whole concept of affordable housing is insane and we have these things we have climate

[2:11:13] Voice 9: change which means we have to ramp up how we build our buildings because it's the majority

[2:11:17] Voice 9: of climate impact comes from buildings. Secondary is transportation. So we have much more stringent

[2:11:26] Voice 9: rules on how we build that creates much higher costs in an environment where I think we're

[2:11:35] Voice 9: milder, but we have provincial coverage that has to be a little less sensible. So on one

[2:11:41] Voice 9: hand, we're trying to solve climate. On the other hand, we're trying to solve affordability.

[2:11:44] Voice 9: and the two don't.

[2:11:47] Voice 11: They don't

[2:11:47] Voice 9: play ball together.

[2:11:48] Voice 11: We were looking at supporting the environment.

[2:11:51] Voice 9: Yeah, so it's kind of

[2:11:52] Voice 9: a support the environment, that's a long-term

[2:11:54] Voice 9: issue. You've got a lot of people that are

[2:11:56] Voice 9: on a house, a lot of people that have good jobs

[2:11:58] Voice 9: but don't have a house,

[2:12:00] Voice 9: right? And that leads to other

[2:12:02] Voice 9: social expenses

[2:12:04] Voice 9: that are extremely expensive

[2:12:06] Voice 9: and it impacts people, so

[2:12:08] Voice 9: none of this stuff's easy.

[2:12:10] Voice 10: You know,

[2:12:11] Voice 13: great discussion.

[2:12:15] Voice 4: Yeah, yeah.

[2:12:16] Voice 13: and covered

[2:12:17] Voice 4: a lot of territory today thank you and

[2:12:19] Voice 8: the commitment is is that this is the first

[2:12:22] Voice 8: of many like this is like have a conversation we're going to come back with a bunch

[2:12:27] Voice 8: is that this sort of starts informing the discussion

[2:12:31] Voice 8: and so like i think particularly the trustees have talked about doing some online stuff um

[2:12:38] Voice 8: separate from a formal meeting because if we have community meetings and it's just about

[2:12:44] Voice 8: out information. That's not a formal meeting. So I didn't have

[2:12:47] Voice 8: to come. It doesn't have to come is that these are more sort of

[2:12:52] Voice 8: compiling information. And so this is a process. This is not

[2:12:58] Voice 8: the final step. This is the first step of something that's

[2:13:02] Voice 8: going to be many, many steps. And that's usually because this

[2:13:07] Voice 8: is supposed to be a community discussion to represent the

[2:13:09] Voice 8: community. I hope you don't be

[2:13:11] Voice 11: with us every step of the way. So looking at if um among those of you you're

[2:13:17] Voice 11: interested in the CRD level and you're interested because of your experience on Maine and our two

[2:13:23] Voice 11: trustees are interested and Brad sounds like you got interested in the Maine Island thing

[2:13:27] Voice 11: if secondary suites is not an effective way to produce some I don't know what you would define

[2:13:37] Voice 11: it's a successful amount of extra housing or by affordable I'm assuming that we mean

[2:13:45] Voice 11: renting like within $1,500 a month or something. Is that kind of a definition of affordable?

[2:13:50] Voice 9: There are a number of definitions around how much. I call it accessible.

[2:13:54] Voice 9: It really should be deemed a percentage of income. You can

[2:14:00] Voice 9: do

[2:14:02] Voice 4: rent-to-own, you can do

[2:14:04] Voice 4: partial equity there's a whole lot of interesting models from a lot of jurisdictions might hurt

[2:14:10] Voice 4: as if you would be seeing young affordability it isn't simple rental so

[2:14:15] Voice 11: just looking at that if

[2:14:16] Voice 11: those are not successful models um and they don't seem to be taken up for the reasons that he had

[2:14:21] Voice 11: and this panel greatly attached to then why should we proceed down this road um burning up valuable

[2:14:30] Voice 11: trust time if it doesn't. I think it's like a lot of little

[2:14:37] Voice 4: streams. You want to create

[2:14:39] Voice 12: many possibilities. It's one path to a magic solution.

[2:14:44] Voice 12: I

[2:14:44] Voice 8: think the idea is to open up potential opportunities, but more remove barriers.

[2:14:51] Voice 8: Dr. Bowman just reminded me, another island I'm involved with, up in Denver, they have

[2:14:57] Voice 8: this coho, two-octane, and I think it's 14 units. And it's basically, it's a coho. And it's very

[2:15:07] Voice 8: economical. 100% rainwater catchment. It's worked out very, very well. And it's, again,

[2:15:18] Voice 8: it's thinking somewhat outside of the box. And I think part of it is sort of impressing.

[2:15:26] Voice 8: water should not be that imaginary line in the sand to limit or or to enable is is that we need

[2:15:34] Voice 8: to have but bylaws that work for the community and open up opportunities and then if somebody

[2:15:42] Voice 8: wants to exploit an opportunity that's great rather than just keep saying no no no no no

[2:15:47] Voice 8: because i don't think i think if we threw if we did what devon and harvey had and had no building

[2:15:54] Voice 8: purpose so that they have they only have sighting and use permits and we said there's no rules on

[2:15:59] Voice 8: building what comes to turn on i don't think you're going to see a bunch of developers arriving

[2:16:04] Voice 8: here to build stuff because again the economics are more than the the limited so i think the

[2:16:12] Voice 8: interest of the local trust committee is more in in taking down the barriers opening up the

[2:16:17] Voice 8: opportunities and hope somebody walks through the door and says yes i'd like to do something

[2:16:21] Voice 8: because they'll perceive that there's a problem and there's a need.

[2:16:26] Voice 12: But we're not proposing to make the move just so you know that.

[2:16:31] Voice 11: Thanks, David.

[2:16:34] Voice 8: My

[2:16:34] Voice 11: takeaway wasn't...

[2:16:37] Voice 11: Thank you, David.

[2:16:41] Voice 8: You'll

[2:16:41] Voice 4: be answerable to this, David.

[2:16:43] Voice 4: But

[2:16:43] Voice 8: this is the beginning of a community discussion

[2:16:46] Voice 8: to figure out what road you want to take.

[2:16:49] Voice 8: maybe the road is nowhere but but you know there seems there has been an interest from

[2:16:55] Voice 8: specific community in in exploring stuff and that's what we're doing we're exploring and

[2:17:00] Voice 8: how we explore is by having meetings like this and getting feedback and getting questions and

[2:17:05] Voice 8: that which makes us think and then we move forward and and planner stuff i'm sure is

[2:17:12] Voice 8: but chomping at the bit to sort of give us all sorts of cool ideas and well it would seem that

[2:17:18] Voice 9: the main uh work that's been done is a good starting point for some exploration because a

[2:17:25] Voice 9: whole lot of work has been done and it's an adjacent island with similar issues so

[2:17:31] Voice 9: that would be a signal to me to be a starting point to just store our thinking we're very

[2:17:38] Voice 8: fortunate that i was just because it's in recent years we really put a little bit of focus on on

[2:17:44] Voice 8: the specialist um concept with planners and we have planner chadwick who's our main island planner

[2:17:51] Voice 8: she's really walking the housing is is being her focus and she's done a lot of work at the denman

[2:17:59] Voice 8: um like we demin island i think it's 28 years and almost half a million dollars has been

[2:18:07] Voice 8: put into studying housing and nothing's happened and she in a year has taken the community from

[2:18:15] Voice 8: basically going no is doing anything to actually we have planned and so and what's great is

[2:18:23] Voice 8: it's being driven by the trust by the planners who have the expertise and so it's not because

[2:18:32] Voice 8: it used to be like each local trust committee and sort of everybody sort of tried to do the

[2:18:36] Voice 8: best they can now we have focused planners who really give the direction and give the concepts

[2:18:41] Voice 8: and give the opportunities and allow the local trustees to make decisions based on community need

[2:18:47] Voice 11: um what i don't hear and what is of primary importance to me and and i know this is not

[2:18:53] Voice 11: um shared by a lot of people in the community is the um the balance between

[2:19:01] Voice 11: between open land and land that supports ecosystems.

[2:19:05] Voice 11: Since we live in the major area in Canada

[2:19:09] Voice 11: with the biodiversity that is astounding,

[2:19:12] Voice 11: I hear all the way over

[2:19:14] Voice 11: that we should have lots more housing.

[2:19:16] Voice 11: Well, so what is the limit on that?

[2:19:19] Voice 11: Where do the biologists and the community look at?

[2:19:23] Voice 11: What's the carrying capacity here

[2:19:24] Voice 11: and what do you care about?

[2:19:26] Voice 11: If you continue to develop, do you have a rate of development you're looking at?

[2:19:34] Voice 11: Do you have a build-out that you're looking at?

[2:19:37] Voice 11: Because if you look at soft-bring, you can lose the whole thing there.

[2:19:45] Voice 11: So I don't hear any, right now we're saying, okay, there's no housing.

[2:19:50] Voice 11: Yes, I would like to see more housing,

[2:19:53] Voice 11: but I would like to hear a firm discussion on how much.

[2:19:57] Voice 11: You just have to look at Bowen Island and all the islands in the U.S.

[2:20:02] Voice 11: They eventually become a pied-à-terre for the uber-rich,

[2:20:06] Voice 11: and they're always looking to source people to clean their windows,

[2:20:10] Voice 11: essentially, is what it becomes.

[2:20:12] Voice 11: So I've not heard any discussion on that.

[2:20:14] Voice 8: Well, I think the one thing where the tariff course is very fortunate

[2:20:20] Voice 8: is more than 50 percent parkland so you're you're going to have a bank we're

[2:20:26] Voice 11: up there and

[2:20:29] Voice 8: 48

[2:20:31] Voice 8: last thing that we saw was 58 wasn't no it was 48 but we we don't

[2:20:37] Voice 7: think they've incorporated

[2:20:39] Voice 7: and so but we can agree to disagree and say that's fair and so but but to the answer to

[2:20:48] Voice 7: your question is where we started we have an official community plan that visitors 2 000 people

[2:20:54] Voice 7: and 875 or something building structures that's what the community consensus was on density

[2:21:01] Voice 7: and buildup not every island has that salt spring informally talks about and you and i've talked

[2:21:07] Voice 7: before don't wait for the flight of salt spring as a threat to what could happen here radically

[2:21:12] Voice 7: different context radically different environment it's not when you look at what what we're seeing

[2:21:18] Voice 7: as some of the responses to the problems on salt spring they're not a concern or fear here and we

[2:21:23] Voice 7: shouldn't we shouldn't embrace their fears and bring them here i

[2:21:26] Voice 11: understand that but what i

[2:21:28] Voice 11: so often don't see is a limitation that people are willing to accept we will go this far so

[2:21:35] Voice 7: keep

[2:21:36] Voice 11: the density cap

[2:21:37] Voice 7: yeah that's right i don't think anyone's talking about opening up

[2:21:44] Voice 7: Well, maybe some people are talking about it, but I guess that's not a part of this

[2:21:48] Voice 7: project all around, because we don't envisage anything like an update.

[2:21:52] Voice 11: But do you see my emphasis on ecological systems and...

[2:21:55] Voice 7: I hear your fear. I hear your

[2:21:57] Voice 7: fear. I

[2:21:58] Voice 11: hear your fear about the questions.

[2:22:00] Voice 11: Tears sound stupid. Concerns bounce in porn.

[2:22:03] Voice 7: No, no. There's nothing wrong with having fears. I don't mean to diminish that. I understand

[2:22:08] Voice 7: understand where you're coming from and and and what I I guess if I can offer any reassurances

[2:22:15] Voice 7: these are very minor incremental steps in in something with land use economics and building

[2:22:24] Voice 7: economics that we have little influence in that I think is to Jeremiah's point open up potential

[2:22:31] Voice 7: small avenues like one thing we're all comfortable with I think is tiny homes but the door is slammed

[2:22:36] Voice 7: i'm firmly yeah and paul and i in previous terms we kind of went around and we actually believed

[2:22:42] Voice 7: this here he never read our direct line news bylaws we were able to get europe's as a as a

[2:22:48] Voice 7: accommodation and csa trainings right it's it's all it's about providing flexibility of housing

[2:22:56] Voice 7: given the current land base right like all those lines on the map

[2:23:00] Voice 7: we're not going back and saying right we want to change the zoning um

[2:23:07] Voice 7: of rural, anybody who's done a rural residential lot on the water with one acre, I don't think

[2:23:13] Voice 7: anybody is suggesting that people with that one acre be able to increase density. But there are

[2:23:19] Voice 7: areas we know of, like the former forest lots, where it seems density, they could attract more

[2:23:26] Voice 7: density than they're currently perhaps zone to do. And that really wouldn't change the character

[2:23:31] Voice 7: or in any way of the island because we're talking a percentage incremental increase

[2:23:37] Voice 7: and i couldn't tell you about that percentage because i don't know and i suspect nobody would

[2:23:41] Voice 7: know but the

[2:23:42] Voice 4: cap remains in the ocp so you're you're i think that that you're very aware of

[2:23:48] Voice 4: that there's no talk of blowing that away

[2:23:51] Voice 7: and but but the fear i think is a legitimate thing

[2:23:54] Voice 7: to have when you look at someplace like south spring and the pressures they're now under

[2:23:59] Voice 7: or perhaps because of, and I shouldn't say because of overdevelopment,

[2:24:04] Voice 7: because I don't know, but because you look at areas to the south end of the island,

[2:24:07] Voice 7: which are very, very less, perhaps share the same density we do,

[2:24:12] Voice 7: versus the area around Ganges and to the north, which is much denser.

[2:24:17] Voice 7: But I'm not sure that the densification is the issue.

[2:24:20] Voice 7: It's the social problems that have compounded that,

[2:24:23] Voice 7: which are just out of control and causing people just to despair.

[2:24:27] Voice 7: fair um luckily we don't have that um and so do we want to flirt with it no i don't think anybody

[2:24:36] Voice 7: here is saying we want to let's see how far we can push it before you know we start to like the

[2:24:41] Voice 7: thing starts to shake apart in the air no not at all these are the century suites i take your point

[2:24:47] Voice 7: uh about the amount of work that's been done or sorry the amount of work you could take up of

[2:24:52] Voice 7: staff time i agree if it was a dead horse so to speak why would we pursue it but the fact is we

[2:25:00] Voice 7: largely know all that work it's all there we just literally need to change the schedules you know i

[2:25:05] Voice 7: think schedule e in the ocp that shows where it's possible to have them there's not a lot of work

[2:25:10] Voice 7: left to do there the only people likely to take them up are new builds who are thinking for their

[2:25:16] Voice 7: retirement or children or what have you in various factors who are willing to invest

[2:25:22] Voice 7: probably in a family basis but having that suite nobody's going to make a suite to rent

[2:25:27] Voice 7: the economics just out there you'd never be able to charge enough to recover the construction costs

[2:25:32] Voice 7: so so that's one small aspect um what are some of the other aspects we honestly don't know i think

[2:25:38] Voice 7: that's what the my colleagues here are talking about like some ways where there's in a low

[2:25:44] Voice 7: impact and ability to, to, to increase accommodation for community members. And that's where we're

[2:25:54] Voice 7: coming from.

[2:25:56] Voice 7: But

[2:25:56] Voice 9: one thing about the economics, right, that government is seeking to change those

[2:26:02] Voice 9: economics. There's not going to be a lot of takeout, but the province is offering $30,000

[2:26:07] Voice 9: now as incentive to build a secondary suite. And I think they've got a program where they're

[2:26:13] Voice 9: to do about a thousand a year after the next three years. CRB is working the program it's going to be

[2:26:18] Voice 9: thirty to forty thousand dollars. You team the two together and it's seventy thousand sixty to seventy

[2:26:23] Voice 9: thousand dollars and it may incent but if Saturn Island doesn't want to be a part of that program

[2:26:29] Voice 9: I can tell you the other islands do want to be part of that program so it's just more money

[2:26:34] Voice 9: to go to the other islands. We do this because we care about young people. There are young people

[2:26:39] Voice 9: that are renting right now that are housing insecurities around those young people help

[2:26:46] Voice 9: support the services on the side this isn't about retirees who have houses and doctorable

[2:26:52] Voice 9: press bonds whatever it doesn't matter this is about the future generation and having a nice

[2:26:58] Voice 9: vibrant dynamic demographic on our own it's about the future generation none of us in

[2:27:07] Voice 7: keeping i

[2:27:08] Voice 7: think with our values as islanders because i just started to interrupt there like the co-op idea you

[2:27:14] Voice 7: know we're talking about some individuals we don't you and i know who are looking for housing and

[2:27:18] Voice 7: their approaches to this the functioning of our school system in this case um they want something

[2:27:25] Voice 7: very modest like a co-op structure where they have ownership and the ability to express themselves

[2:27:29] Voice 7: through building is all they want in no way will that impact the economy and the environment in

[2:27:35] Voice 7: any meaningful way that we don't think we agree on that but we don't there's no mechanism for that to

[2:27:41] Voice 7: happen yeah and then i've seen on the moment actually a totally different scale we wouldn't

[2:27:47] Voice 7: have that here it was funded by man city and it's it was a really neat uh co-organizing development

[2:27:53] Voice 7: on a steep hillside that was three-tiered a kind of apartment which you would say i mean i'm not

[2:27:59] Voice 7: suggesting that for here because that scale but we never get the capital to make that happen here

[2:28:04] Voice 7: even if there was a desire but it really fit with the community and the woodworking shop

[2:28:09] Voice 7: community banquet center they had accessible from the lower floor and upper floor like it was just

[2:28:15] Voice 7: intelligent very eco-sensitive architecture it sounded great and i think um i think that's what

[2:28:22] Voice 7: we're trying to kind of brainstorm is if there could be some creates to fit to scale to the

[2:28:27] Voice 7: island like you know like one of the things in london in england that i know of where you talk

[2:28:33] Voice 7: about adding density you talk about the the fear is that you just create a whole group of people

[2:28:39] Voice 7: who live through the border so you have somebody down in the basement that is your separate entrance

[2:28:44] Voice 7: for the poor people and that you you know you've subsisted up your rent we're not talking about

[2:28:50] Voice 7: that here we want fully fledged members of the community who can express themselves through land

[2:28:54] Voice 7: ownership in a way that fits the the natural environment we all enjoy living in um the

[2:29:01] Voice 7: solutions we don't have but this is like these guys have said it's the start of the conversation

[2:29:07] Voice 7: and not to diminish fears it's okay to have a fear of being overdeveloped or

[2:29:12] Voice 7: opening the floodgates there's nothing wrong with having that fear it's just we've got to

[2:29:15] Voice 7: talk about it right so and then which is what you're doing so we appreciate that

[2:29:22] Voice 12: um so i was distracted silencing my problem but

[2:29:27] Voice 12: But actually, one thing that, you know, in the context of biodiversity and coverage, trees, whatever,

[2:29:40] Voice 12: there are a number of island stress reports which people don't read and don't reference.

[2:29:45] Voice 12: And I did read two of them.

[2:29:47] Voice 12: One is the Adroni, Adroni, a bit excited, that's it, company report on disturbance, i.e. over a 10-year period, they looked to see the disturbance.

[2:30:00] Voice 12: increase in land being cleared for various reasons it is not very significant and it was from I think

[2:30:08] Voice 12: they went from 2004 to 2000 I can't remember the dates now but they did a very extensive survey

[2:30:14] Voice 12: so the rate of change is actually very small you drive along roads and you see anything that

[2:30:20] Voice 12: changes but behind those roads there are vast tracts of land that are not changing so you're

[2:30:26] Voice 12: influenced by what you see as you travel in a very limited corridor. They looked across everything.

[2:30:34] Voice 12: And there was another report by a company called Cavan and that was, I think,

[2:30:40] Voice 12: instigated by the Isles Trust Conservancy and that was to look at contiguous

[2:30:46] Voice 12: and land that would, you know, what's the word, act as a safe harbour for species.

[2:30:58] Voice 12: And again, we have a lot of contiguous wild land, like way more than in other places.

[2:31:07] Voice 12: And they quantify that. And in fact, they struggled.

[2:31:10] Voice 12: One of the things they struggled with, which was interesting,

[2:31:13] Voice 12: interesting, just I happened to cross it. And when people talk

[2:31:18] Voice 12: about contiguous space and what's needed, they have a model

[2:31:22] Voice 12: for a particular animal. So an elephant needs like gigantic

[2:31:25] Voice 12: quantities of space. On the

[2:31:29] Voice 12: islands, we don't have that need

[2:31:31] Voice 12: for nature species, they're mostly small, and they struggled

[2:31:34] Voice 12: to find an appropriate model that would set like this is the

[2:31:37] Voice 12: amount of contiguous joint of space needed. And they had to

[2:31:42] Voice 12: kind of slightly frig the system. But within that, this

[2:31:48] Voice 12: report, basically, we have a lot of contiguous connected wild

[2:31:53] Voice 12: spaces. So I can also add those two reports to anything I send

[2:32:00] Voice 12: out. They're worth a look, because if you read those and

[2:32:03] Voice 12: really consider them, and they were paid for where they are,

[2:32:05] Voice 12: it's trusted there. So I do reports done by consultants. We

[2:32:10] Voice 12: We shouldn't be, but the sky is not falling.

[2:32:12] Voice 12: We're okay.

[2:32:13] Voice 4: So those are current, and the point would be that even,

[2:32:18] Voice 4: I mean, it looks like we need to amend the OCP

[2:32:21] Voice 4: to add more flexibility to what can be done,

[2:32:25] Voice 4: but it would be to take Priscilla's point

[2:32:28] Voice 4: with reference to sustaining existing contiguous spaces

[2:32:33] Voice 4: and not moving above some level of disruption

[2:32:36] Voice 4: or whatever kind.

[2:32:38] Voice 12: out. We're starting from a good place, we're like 48 to 50 percent rejected land on C2.

[2:32:46] Voice 9: We've been growing, we've been growing that land, not shrinking that land, fairly aggressively,

[2:32:53] Voice 9: hundreds of acres.

[2:32:55] Voice 7: Can I just add one moment, this is a problem for the Trust, we are a federation

[2:33:01] Voice 7: here, I think we've got a good thing going on, we're fortunate, very fortunate I think to live

[2:33:06] Voice 7: here and I think we have a very nice community and we've got the right future. But you cannot,

[2:33:13] Voice 7: especially if you're going to Ganges by boat, you cannot say that all is well in the trust area.

[2:33:18] Voice 7: I mean a kind of a cynical view is so that all the people living in Anchor, some are legitimate kind

[2:33:25] Voice 7: of little folks who are Americans and wouldn't move around, but many are

[2:33:28] Voice 7: there by circumstance

[2:33:31] Voice 7: of no other accommodation, no other place to live, not to living in the tents.

[2:33:36] Voice 7: that lived right there around Ganges is there is, I think, over, one of the trustees there

[2:33:44] Voice 7: said when there was a tenant encampment cleared out on Main Street, Hastings Street in Vancouver,

[2:33:50] Voice 7: they asked the housing minister, how many tenants were removed?

[2:33:53] Voice 7: It was something like 117, 118.

[2:33:57] Voice 7: There was 260 vessels.

[2:34:00] Voice 7: There's a few left, a few of them.

[2:34:01] Voice 7: them, 260 vessels of some way, shape, or form are anchoring

[2:34:06] Voice 7: Genji's harbor. So by any definition, that is the largest

[2:34:09] Voice 7: camp of homeless people in the province, right? And so, and so

[2:34:16] Voice 7: the one thing is that they actually have sufficient

[2:34:19] Voice 7: population that that group in the harbor should have two

[2:34:22] Voice 7: trustees, right? Because it's like, so, so that's a huge

[2:34:28] Voice 7: right and to see like how does the trust adapt to deal with that and the thing is whatever

[2:34:34] Voice 7: mechanisms are going to be used there just won't be suitable here and so we have to be aware that

[2:34:41] Voice 7: stuff needs to happen in the federation but it doesn't mean that that stuff has to happen here

[2:34:46] Voice 7: because i just we don't have that problem it's just simply don't um but we do need to be aware

[2:34:52] Voice 7: and i'll wash our hands just like what high school is hospital of course we want let's go

[2:34:57] Voice 7: can do frequently so i just want to add that footnote i mean all is not well there at all

[2:35:03] Voice 7: there's an estimate that there's almost a thousand unhoused people on salt spring island that's this

[2:35:08] Voice 7: huge percentage of the population right and and then that's compounded not promoting

[2:35:15] Voice 7: municipalization by the fact that there is no actual third level of government that can offer

[2:35:20] Voice 7: the services so all the kids all that there are community-based services that people are relying

[2:35:25] Voice 7: lying on their own now is that's stretching the community tremendously and so you know so that is

[2:35:32] Voice 7: within the Federation now what response to that I don't think we should not need uh well I don't

[2:35:39] Voice 7: think we should accept nor should we be fearful of those responses having to be applied here because

[2:35:44] Voice 7: they just wouldn't work we don't need them right so just I wouldn't have to have that carry because

[2:35:48] Voice 7: I go to Ganyu Tree Healing and see it, it is from the water's stump. You just cannot believe

[2:35:54] Voice 7: where we are and see what would you see there. And then some of those people that live in those,

[2:36:00] Voice 7: you

[2:36:01] Voice 9: would think, oh they're all heroines. No, they are not heroines. They're, you know, 30,

[2:36:07] Voice 9: 40 year old people that dress nicely, that have responsible jobs, and like that's what

[2:36:12] Voice 9: blew me away. We went to a couple of housing stuff that's over on South Strait Street, 30 people in

[2:36:16] Voice 9: the room and three of them are you know at risk of losing their house or have lost their house

[2:36:22] Voice 9: and they're seeking like it always is their job i mean it's it's serious stuff yeah yeah

[2:36:29] Voice 13: we're

[2:36:30] Voice 9: sort of in the wrap-up stage and i just

[2:36:31] Voice 2: i i didn't want to miss the chance thank the

[2:36:35] Voice 2: trustees thank david thank brad you

[2:36:39] Voice 9: folks are this is a multi multi multifaceted conversation

[2:36:45] Voice 9: you're well resourced, you're committed, and just as an Islander, just thank you for taking charge of this process, whatever the outcome is.

[2:36:54] Voice 9: And

[2:36:55] Voice 2: well done.

[2:36:57] Voice 2: We're good hands, and thank you.

[2:37:02] Voice 2: I

[2:37:03] Voice 4: think you've owned the problem with your council in-camera work and consensus statement, and thank you for doing that.

[2:37:13] Voice 4: it does set off alarm bells so I hope there's a healthy retrenchment and we can stay all on the

[2:37:21] Voice 4: same playing on the same team here.

[2:37:23] Voice 12: Yeah it's hard it's hard it's hard to keep up with you know

[2:37:29] Voice 12: movement from all fronts. One last

[2:37:31] Voice 12: fact Lloyd, so the trustee from Denman at the recent planning

[2:37:35] Voice 12: meeting were joking about you know health of the community and what would it mean in your community

[2:37:42] Voice 12: how would you, you know, think of indicators and he said number of children in the school.

[2:37:49] Voice 12: He said that was a healthy to him indicator and then it had gone down, it had gone up etc and he

[2:37:56] Voice 12: saw that as you know proportional to the population because our demographic profiles are always a bit

[2:38:04] Voice 12: messed up but he said number of children in the school was a really important indicator for him

[2:38:09] Voice 12: And I thought it was kind of stuck in my head as something, yeah.

[2:38:15] Voice 8: But I think probably the concluding point is what we are looking at with Island Trust

[2:38:22] is from the very foundation of the Trust

[2:38:26] Voice 8: is the acknowledgement that every island is unique.

[2:38:28] Voice 8: So as you've heard, this is even a salt spring, they're on one end of the spectrum.

[2:38:32] Voice 8: So turn us on the other end of the spectrum, and each island is individual.

[2:38:37] Voice 8: So, if we were a large body, say we were the municipality of the Islands Trust or the regional

[2:38:43] Voice 8: district of the Islands Trust, you would have the same rules on how Salisbury would apply

[2:38:47] Voice 8: to Saturna.

[2:38:49] Voice 8: It doesn't work.

[2:38:50] Voice 8: Each island is unique.

[2:38:52] Voice 8: And, you know, planners sometimes tear their hair out saying, well, you're not the same

[2:38:57] Voice 8: as that guy and I can't figure out what's going on.

[2:38:59] Voice 8: So that's what makes it magical.

[2:39:00] Voice 8: So we don't have to go into the

[2:39:00] Voice 4: regional district, as I've heard a few people say.

[2:39:03] Voice 9: We've got nothing

[2:39:03] Voice 8: to do with the regional district.

[2:39:05] Voice 9: We have 13 municipalities in the regional district with 400,000 people.

[2:39:10] Voice 9: Everyone going where you need, where you need.

[2:39:13] Voice 9: We have a mayor, we each have seven councillors, what do you need?

[2:39:16] Voice 9: 137 councillors for 425,000 people.

[2:39:20] Voice 9: How do you like that?

[2:39:22] Voice 9: And duplicate staff, and duplicate fire guards, duplicate this and duplicate that.

[2:39:26] Voice 9: Everyone likes to be unique.

[2:39:28] Voice 11: And I think that there's value to that in that, and I can see the frustrations of it,

[2:39:33] Voice 11: and appreciate that and the recognition and things like that is that i think saturn has had a long

[2:39:42] Voice 11: strong history of thinking and evaluating and understanding some of the forces at play and

[2:39:52] Voice 11: charting good ways forward and that's why i'm not too interested in the portal thing of

[2:39:59] Voice 11: of suggesting not just to be opinionated in the APC,

[2:40:03] Voice 11: I think one of the hugest values of it

[2:40:06] Voice 11: is that you got to hear other people's,

[2:40:09] Voice 11: not only their opinions, but their lived life thing

[2:40:12] Voice 11: of what they're attempting to do in their life.

[2:40:14] Voice 11: And I think that keeps the community compassionate

[2:40:18] Voice 11: and effective if you are able to make changes

[2:40:22] Voice 11: that actually reflect what's important to you

[2:40:25] Voice 11: and to remember that person who is a neighbor

[2:40:29] Voice 11: who is also trying to make a living on the island.

[2:40:34] Voice 11: And I don't want to become part of the municipal system at all.

[2:40:38] Voice 11: I just want to believe that's why we've lived here,

[2:40:40] Voice 11: where I have now lived,

[2:40:41] Voice 11: and why I think the APC is valuable and comprehending.

[2:40:48] Voice 11: It's a huge thing that each island made their own land use bylaw.

[2:40:52] Voice 11: Yes, you've been restrictions.

[2:40:54] Voice 11: that was a, I think that was pivotal for the Outer Islands to do that. And if you read their original documents, they're fascinating. They really reflected different histories and different desires, but mostly they reflected active participation in very important aspects of people's lives, land ownership,

[2:41:15] Voice 11: common services for water, for forestry, and also some concern and consideration of the natural world around them

[2:41:25] Voice 11: before we knew how absolutely astonishing and lucky we are to live in this corner of Canada.

[2:41:34] Voice 11: So that is why I mentioned the APC and why I love this kind of discussion.

[2:41:40] Voice 11: So, Brad, you don't live here, but it must be interesting for you to hear the discussions that go on.

[2:41:47] Voice 13: Absolutely. It's

[2:41:48] Voice 8: a really interesting job.

[2:41:49] Voice 8: Alright, so let's draw this community information into a discussion.

[2:41:58] Voice 8: And we'll move on with our agenda if that works for everybody.

[2:42:01] Voice 8: good. So we have minutes, the local trust committee minutes

[2:42:06] Voice 8: dated May 23, 2020, for adoption, you know, just before

[2:42:12] Voice 8: when you can leave

[2:42:14] Voice 7: this longer.

[2:42:32] Voice 8: I'm

[2:42:33] Voice 3: very sorry.

[2:42:34] Voice 3: All right.

[2:42:35] Voice 8: So every minute.

[2:42:37] Voice 8: Yeah.

[2:42:37] Voice 8: Yeah.

[2:42:38] Voice 8: So my perception is.

[2:42:39] Voice 8: As well.

[2:42:41] Voice 8: Remember.

[2:42:42] Voice 8: So.

[2:42:42] I didn't.

[2:42:44] Voice 8: It's not.

[2:42:45] Voice 8: In fact.

[2:42:46] Voice 8: Yeah.

[2:42:46] Voice 8: That's what we want.

[2:42:48] Voice 8: In the media.

[2:42:49] Voice 13: You see something.

[2:42:50] Voice 8: And we go back to find it.

[2:42:51] Voice 8: You can't find it.

[2:42:52] Voice 8: You can't find it.

[2:42:54] Voice 8: So.

[2:42:57] Voice 12: So.

[2:43:05] Voice 8: So we have such a 26 resolution on page 12 page

[2:43:12] Voice 10: 12 yeah

[2:43:17] Voice 9: I mean there would have been

[2:43:19] Voice 9: and people can maybe hear about that but it's no good so

[2:43:22] Voice 12: is this a good place to put in motion

[2:43:26] Voice 12: well

[2:43:27] Voice 8: maybe at

[2:43:41] Voice 7: this point i would say for the minutes if we could thank uh brian

[2:43:45] Voice 7: and for

[2:43:46] Voice 9: turning

[2:43:47] Voice 7: around this request extremely quickly.

[2:43:50] Voice 7: He wrote two letters,

[2:43:51] Voice 7: one in his professional capacity to Moti

[2:43:54] Voice 7: in regard to this subdivision application

[2:43:56] Voice 7: and he worked with staff to get together

[2:43:59] Voice 7: this resolution without meeting,

[2:44:02] Voice 7: which we passed all within two days

[2:44:03] Voice 7: and got shipped off to one of those interested,

[2:44:09] Voice 7: ideally Moti.

[2:44:10] Voice 7: And so I just wanna say thank you for that.

[2:44:12] Voice 7: That was very effective.

[2:44:14] Voice 7: and now you see the results right there.

[2:44:17] Voice 7: So thank you.

[2:44:18] Voice 7: All right, I will.

[2:44:20] Voice 12: Do you want to move up to the front?

[2:44:22] Voice 8: Jess,

[2:44:23] Voice 12: do you want to move up to the front?

[2:44:25] Voice 8: Do

[2:44:25] Voice 12: you want to move up to the front?

[2:44:28] Voice 8: So we'll move under a call of action as soon as age 13.

[2:44:32] Voice 8: I hope it's good to share, I see no questions.

[2:44:36] Voice 8: So please move forward.

[2:44:38] Voice 8: Yeah.

[2:44:39] Voice 8: Okay. Yeah.

[2:44:39] Voice 8: So that reports where the work programs report after projects and future projects page 1 through 15.

[2:44:47] Voice 8: Anything there, Clarence Smith?

[2:44:49] Voice 8: No,

[2:44:52] Voice 12: and thanks Brad for that presentation. It was really useful and sparked another discussion.

[2:45:00] Voice 8: So we have applications report for verbal update. Is there much there?

[2:45:15] Voice 2: So

[2:45:16] Voice 8: we have, for information, trustee local expense report for May 2024, that's page 16.

[2:45:29] Voice 8: We are with Dr. Paulson for solutions for information, local trust committee red page,

[2:45:37] Voice 8: i'm assuming everybody's cool with that um then we have an honest trust and service report attached

[2:45:44] Voice 8: on page 223 for our information um and then we're wandering into business we have a couple of new

[2:45:51] Voice 8: business items so um who wants to come in

[2:45:57] Voice 7: first or go ahead yeah being left unfortunately we

[2:46:02] Voice 7: We'd have heard about the letter, but not the way.

[2:46:07] Voice 7: I'm going to keep this.

[2:46:10] Voice 7: So there was just something that occurred of routine nature,

[2:46:15] Voice 7: nothing to be concerned about,

[2:46:18] Voice 7: and that elicited interest in terms of a potential bylaw violation.

[2:46:25] Voice 7: And in the initiated correspondence between my colleague here, which they say led to we

[2:46:37] Voice 7: realized there's a communication gap between by law enforcement and the standing resolution

[2:46:43] Voice 7: we have in regard to this.

[2:46:48] Voice 13: Yeah,

[2:46:49] Voice 7: that's right, access and with private property.

[2:46:51] Voice 7: And so there was a useful correspondence back and forth because Mr. Higgins pointed out that it's best to work with the local trust committees to come up with guidelines around bylaw enforcement, which absolutely is certainly our intent.

[2:47:07] Voice 7: We're a little delayed because we have, of course, this agriculture land reserve application took up so much time in terms of it being a major project, but it's still on track.

[2:47:17] Voice 7: I've talked informally about where the land use by-law reviews on a component of which

[2:47:24] Voice 7: this by-law enforcement guidelines will be, will happen in the term, but I just wanted

[2:47:30] Voice 7: to flag that out of that conversation, Mr. Damon pointed out he'd done the same work

[2:47:38] Voice 7: with Denham and they produced a document, which I looked at, actually very good.

[2:47:42] Voice 7: and so he in the broader sense is um responding to trust councils work with the provincial

[2:47:50] Voice 7: ombudsman in terms of looking to buy law enforcement best practice and there'll be

[2:47:54] Voice 7: a report available at the end of the um well october middle cover i think he said and so

[2:48:01] Voice 7: it's just to say that we want to find that to go on a work plan we want to definitely work with uh

[2:48:07] Voice 7: with Mr. Lehman and staff to basically come up with something.

[2:48:12] Voice 7: I think it can be much simpler for Saterna, to be honest,

[2:48:15] Voice 7: because we don't really have any particular issues.

[2:48:17] Voice 7: We were just looking to sort of modernize our codification of enforcement

[2:48:23] Voice 7: in the land use bylaw and the enabling bylaw.

[2:48:26] Voice 7: And so I guess it's really just to get a statement in the minutes

[2:48:31] Voice 7: that we intend to engage with bylaw enforcement staff

[2:48:36] Voice 7: to prepare the fruits of Mr. Damon's work in the report

[2:48:39] Voice 7: that he will produce for October

[2:48:41] Voice 7: and then seek a public process

[2:48:43] Voice 7: that will then codify that into,

[2:48:45] Voice 7: formally into our land use bylaw

[2:48:47] Voice 7: instead of just relying on the standing resolution,

[2:48:50] Voice 7: which we have right now.

[2:48:51] Voice 7: So I don't know if there's any need for,

[2:48:53] Voice 7: I know I see Mr. Damon's hand each on this.

[2:48:56] Voice 7: Anybody wants to say any comment to that

[2:48:58] Voice 7: or I'll leave that to your pleasure, Chair.

[2:49:01] Voice 7: Chair, Mr.

[2:49:02] Voice 8: Damon, do you have anything to add to Trustee Middleton's?

[2:49:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Chair, no, I believe Trustee Middleton has summarized it really well.

[2:49:10] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: I mean, that's, Chair Mott, as you know,

[2:49:13] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the Danmans adopted their policy, they're happy with it.

[2:49:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And so we're going to go through all the local trust committees.

[2:49:19] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And as Trustee Middleton said,

[2:49:22] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the one for Saterna will be much shorter, much more straightforward.

[2:49:26] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: You don't have a lot of files,

[2:49:27] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: But it would be a good process for all of the local trust committees to have their set to buy on compliance and enforcement policies policies in one document all their standing resolutions around enforcement in one document, and then it'll be easy to access for staff and for property owners on the island.

[2:49:49] Voice 8: Excellent. Thank you very much.

[2:49:51] Voice 8: And

[2:49:51] Voice 7: just to apologize that we, I made the assumption we had communicated the standing resolution, which we obviously hadn't. So that error is on us. So apologies for that oversight. And hopefully we can correct all of that collaboration as we go forward later this year.

[2:50:08] Voice 7: Just a

[2:50:09] Voice 12: general question. So Warren, how is it going, the implementation of the bio-enforcement portal?

[2:50:21] Voice 12: what would you call it, widget tool component of the CityView software?

[2:50:28] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So that process for violent enforcement has just started.

[2:50:32] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: One meeting is taking place.

[2:50:33] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: They must have another meeting with Director Cermak,

[2:50:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and we'll review contracts and then start training

[2:50:39] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and doing the work to get that portal installed and staff trained

[2:50:45] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: so it can be put on the website and we can all use it.

[2:50:49] Voice 12: Do you have any estimate for completion?

[2:50:51] Voice 12: just ballpark I won't tell you

[2:50:53] Voice 12: three months or two years

[2:50:55] Voice 12: oh

[2:50:57] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: no we'll do this

[2:50:57] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: in a matter of months hopefully three months

[2:50:59] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: or less but yeah

[2:51:01] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: it should not take years

[2:51:03] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: but it is an involved process

[2:51:05] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: multiple staff members are working on it

[2:51:08] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: so hopefully

[2:51:09] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: certainly hope before the end of the year

[2:51:11] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: it'll all be completed

[2:51:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: thank you

[2:51:15] Voice 7: thank you

[2:51:18] Voice 7: yeah so it's not

[2:51:20] Voice 7: on the work plan

[2:51:20] Voice 7: but we understand it will be at the appropriate point when we want to get that work done.

[2:51:25] Voice 7: So it'll be, you know, we'll attend to it before the end of it.

[2:51:29] Voice 7: As the name has said, we want clarity.

[2:51:31] Voice 7: We don't want any tripping, you know, any

[2:51:33] Voice 6: minefields from out of the way our products work.

[2:51:51] Voice 7: It's really just to be flagged that we have intent.

[2:51:55] Voice 9: Excellent. All right. And you, Heather?

[2:51:59] Voice 9: letter. Yes.

[2:52:00] Voice 12: So I have a proposed motion. So by this is that Mr. Gates made as part of his

[2:52:12] Voice 12: application process and was in conversation with Island Health on the subject of water

[2:52:20] Voice 12: water catchment being his chosen method for proof of water for a subdivision application he's

[2:52:29] Voice 12: proposing and they whoever has got to indicate it will cast doubt upon that and per the last

[2:52:37] Voice 12: meeting we had here Brad explained to us that we have our regulations and what we recommend

[2:52:44] Voice 12: recommend, but unless we make it very explicit to other authorities, they may choose to kind

[2:52:52] Voice 12: of gloss over that. They're not held to it constitutionally, I think, but they should

[2:52:57] Voice 12: take our recommendations. Go ahead, Brad.

[2:53:02] Voice 14: So just to clarify, your subdivision standards don't include water and septic services, and

[2:53:10] Voice 14: so then at the first of the promise to make that decision?

[2:53:12] Voice 14: Yeah.

[2:53:13] Voice 14: Your standing resolution was just information

[2:53:15] Voice 14: whether to consider or not consider.

[2:53:18] Voice 14: Yeah.

[2:53:18] Voice 12: So he actually referred to that standing resolution

[2:53:21] Voice 12: and he didn't feel that it was being necessarily taken as seriously.

[2:53:28] Voice 12: So he asked if we could write a letter of support

[2:53:30] Voice 12: to say, you know, that we as an Open Trust Committee

[2:53:34] Voice 12: certainly support this and recommend it.

[2:53:37] Voice 12: So I have dropped the letter, which we've all reviewed, and it's adequate, but I need to make a motion just to state that we are going to do that.

[2:53:48] Voice 12: So the motion is that Saterina Island Local Trust Committee write a letter to Island Health, stating full support for water capture, which is a proof of potable water, in case of subdivision and development applications, dash Paris Saterina LTC study resolution.

[2:54:06] Voice 12: Is that covered?

[2:54:07] Voice 12: Yes.

[2:54:08] Voice 12: I

[2:54:09] Voice 2: would just add a reference, just like I did in your, in the note, the letter, to

[2:54:14] Voice 2: just

[2:54:15] Voice 2: that you're not supporting any rainwater catchment system, it has to be a provincial guideline.

[2:54:24] Voice 2: Okay.

[2:54:25] Voice 2: Because when I own my catchment, because that narrows your support to something that meets

[2:54:30] Voice 2: guidelines.

[2:54:30] Voice 12: How do I share that into this?

[2:54:34] Voice 12: for a water catchment per provincial guidelines as proof of the water, okay?

[2:54:39] Voice 12: So you can send that to Lisa.

[2:54:42] Voice 12: Okay, right.

[2:54:45] Voice 8: All right, so Lisa, you have that?

[2:54:48] Voice 12: No, I didn't send it to you.

[2:54:49] Voice 8: I did send it.

[2:54:50] Voice 12: Oh, you did? Okay, so...

[2:54:52] Voice 8: But not with the amendment.

[2:54:53] Voice 12: Okay, I'll stick in the amendment then.

[2:54:54] Voice 12: Let's see.

[2:54:56] Voice 12: That's my, that's Lisa's email address.

[2:54:59] Voice 9: We'll have to search your address.

[2:55:02] Voice 13: Okay.

[2:55:02] Voice 13: Okay.

[2:55:04] Voice 9: All right.

[2:55:04] Voice 9: Good.

[2:55:05] Voice 12: Okay.

[2:55:06] Voice 12: Good night.

[2:55:07] Voice 12: So, for water catchment, I'll just put, and for

[2:55:15] Voice 13: the .

[2:55:24] Voice 13: Okay.

[2:55:32] Voice 13: I think that's good.

[2:55:34] Voice 13: All right.

[2:55:37] Voice 8: So, second, Trustee Melancon?

[2:55:38] Voice 8: I second that, yes.

[2:55:41] Voice 8: Any further discussion on that?

[2:55:43] Voice 8: And if not, call the question on favor.

[2:55:47] Voice 8: Get it.

[2:55:48] Voice 6: Okay.

[2:55:49] Voice 2: All right.

[2:55:49] Voice 2: And are you submitting that letter?

[2:55:52] Voice 2: So you're writing that letter and then share it on the site.

[2:55:56] Voice 2: Are you sending it to Monique?

[2:55:58] Voice 12: No, I sent it to you for an dispatch to normal channels.

[2:56:03] Voice 2: I'll take the edit that you added and I'll send

[2:56:06] Voice 12: it to you.

[2:56:07] Voice 12: And I'll give you the address of Silent Health in general,

[2:56:11] Voice 12: but there's a particular person for the attention of us.

[2:56:13] Voice 2: okay just to be clear it's a letter of support from the local trust committee lost out

[2:56:18] Voice 2: yeah as well you might have a different perspective yeah yeah yeah okay girls

[2:56:25] Voice 9: that is

[2:56:27] Voice 8: carried in taking care of one thank you very much um is there any other business

[2:56:35] Voice 7: no it's no

[2:56:36] Voice 8: so our next regular meeting is scheduled for october 17th that's all

[2:56:42] Voice 8: It is.

[2:56:44] Voice 8: That's pretty close to the provincial election time.

[2:56:48] Voice 8: When do you start the next general meeting?

[2:56:50] Voice 8: On the 17th.

[2:56:51] Voice 8: Oh, in my quarters.

[2:56:52] Voice 8: On here.

[2:56:53] Voice 8: So we look forward to that.

[2:56:55] Voice 8: And we conclude in the town hall.

[2:56:57] Voice 8: So did any of our members of the public wish to address us with any further questions or

[2:57:03] Voice 8: statements or other.

[2:57:06] Voice 12: It's on the agenda earlier.

[2:57:09] Voice 8: Well then it's two.

[2:57:11] Voice 8: Yes.

[2:57:13] Voice 8: So I guess I'll move on.

[2:57:14] Voice 8: And again, because I don't trust that she needs it. Some have it in the beginning, some have it in the end, and some of them have two.

[2:57:22] Voice 12: That's great to hear. I haven't been to one for a very long time.

[2:57:26] Voice 12: And the question that you handled right off about the chairman meeting with me, that was interesting.

[2:57:34] Voice 12: You just have that space, especially when you have this specific information, that was really helpful.

[2:57:40] Voice 12: We

[2:57:41] Voice 8: do get to that question a few times, so what are you doing here?

[2:57:45] Voice 8: All right, so we will adjourn.

[2:57:48] Voice 8: Just one

[2:57:50] Voice 12: quick question, Brad. What happens next in terms of community information? October is a long way away.

[2:57:57] Voice 12: Have we got the flexibility built in to have community information meeting between now and then on more or less the same topic?

[2:58:06] Voice 12: if you want to okay so they

[2:58:09] Voice 12: don't have to fill that into anything we can

[2:58:11] Voice 2: just choose i mean my

[2:58:12] Voice 2: plan would be to bring this down before spring like you know the summary of the information we

[2:58:18] Voice 2: talked about today so options and considerations at the next meeting yeah i don't necessarily see

[2:58:26] Voice 2: a benefit in meeting again to have a conversation before them but if you see that could happen you

[2:58:31] Voice 2: can certainly do that i

[2:58:33] Voice 12: see the value of at least having it as an option to bring more people into

[2:58:38] Voice 12: the conversation if only to make them aware of what's going on if i mean you can try i mean

[2:58:44] Voice 2: you could try i mean we could try uh like struggling that same presentation yeah

[2:58:56] Voice 2: on the evening,

[2:58:57] Voice 13: on Zoom,

[2:58:58] Voice 2: or something like that, if

[2:59:00] Voice 2: you were to look at that, you could

[2:59:03] Voice 2: decide that by RWM, you don't need to decide that today, you can go away and think about

[2:59:07] Voice 2: that.

[2:59:08] Voice 12: Yeah, and if we

[2:59:09] Voice 2: did that, it could record it, which means that it would be available

[2:59:12] Voice 2: for people who couldn't.

[2:59:13] Voice 2: Like JAWS would, it would be set up as a special meeting, you'd have to do a notification,

[2:59:19] Voice 2: and have any meeting you have, as a public meeting, we'd need to go through all the

[2:59:24] Voice 2: sure yeah but you can certainly can

[2:59:28] Voice 8: they can they do a generic motion to hold a future meeting or do

[2:59:33] Voice 8: do we have to be date specific

[2:59:34] Voice 2: just

[2:59:36] Voice 8: to receive an rw yeah

[2:59:38] Voice 2: i mean yes if you want do you want

[2:59:42] Voice 2: an electronic is that something you want to try to arrange like it's up to you i think

[2:59:48] Voice 2: we

[2:59:49] Voice 12: need to ask people because we might need to we might need face-to

[2:59:54] Voice 12: -face and electronic

[2:59:56] Voice 2: I would think at a minimum we would put a CIF on the next.

[3:00:00] Voice 2: meeting because you had a really good conversation here today and a lot more information on the agenda

[3:00:06] Voice 2: package to actually dig into. I don't think any direction to do that at this time.

[3:00:13] Voice 12: But

[3:00:13] Voice 2: if you want to do something else between now and then you can go and think

[3:00:16] Voice 2: about that as well.

[3:00:18] Voice 12: Yes because well I think if we wait till October we get exactly the same

[3:00:23] Voice 12: people here to talk about this project one step on and you know we need to have different people

[3:00:31] Voice 12: be aware like a much wider group and then they can either join in or not but they should at least not

[3:00:38] Voice 12: wake up suddenly and go like what the hell happened we were out there yeah okay so we'll

[3:00:45] Voice 8: We'll figure it out.

[3:00:49] Voice 8: So that consensus we shall adjourn?

[3:00:52] Voice 13: Yep.

[3:00:53] Voice 13: Thank you very much.

[3:00:54] Voice 8: That was in camera, right?

[3:00:55] Voice 8: No.

[3:00:56] Voice 8: Well, it says none.

[3:00:59] Voice 14: Then you want to .

[3:01:01] Voice 14: Okay.

[3:01:01] Voice 14: Perfect.

[3:01:02] Voice 14: Moving back.

[3:01:03] Voice 8: No.

[3:01:04] Voice 8: No.

[3:01:04] Voice 8: Okay, cool.

[3:01:05] Voice 14: Thank

[3:01:06] Voice 8: you very much, everybody.

[3:01:07] Voice 8: Thank you.

[3:01:07] Voice 8: Okay.

[3:01:08] Voice 8: Thank you.

[3:01:08] Voice 8: Thank you.

[3:01:09] Voice 8: Thank you.