North Pender Island Local Trust Committee regular meeting, July 26, 2024

[0:00:00] Voice 15: All right, so we are beginning our meeting. They're being recorded live stream.

[0:00:05] So good morning, everybody. Thank you for joining us today for the regular meeting of the North

[0:00:09] Pender Island Local Trust Committee.

[0:00:11] Voice 15: I want to begin the meeting by acknowledging we're fortunate

[0:00:14] Voice 15: to be in the gallery today at locations across the territory of the Coast Salish People. I'm David

[0:00:19] Voice 15: Vaughn, election on Main Island, the chair of the North Pender Local Trust Committee. I'm joined today

[0:00:23] Voice 15: for your North Pretender Island trustees,

[0:00:25] Voice 15: Erin Campbell, who's here, and Deb Morrison, who is online.

[0:00:30] Voice 15: I'm very happy to see her today.

[0:00:32] Voice 15: Together, we make up the North Pretender Island

[0:00:34] Voice 15: Local Trust Committee.

[0:00:35] Voice 15: The committee is being live streamed and recorded

[0:00:37] Voice 15: for those who are unable to attend today.

[0:00:39] Voice 15: The recording will be posted to the Islands Trust website

[0:00:41] Voice 15: for future viewing.

[0:00:43] Voice 15: We have some staff members joining us today.

[0:00:46] Voice 15: We have Brad Smith, who is our island planner.

[0:00:49] Voice 15: We have Joe Elliott, who is our Senior Indigenous Relations Manager.

[0:00:55] Voice 15: I believe I got that right, I almost butchered that.

[0:00:57] Voice 15: Advisor.

[0:00:58] Voice 15: Advisor.

[0:00:59] Voice 15: And we have Warren Digman, who has joined us.

[0:01:02] Voice 15: And we have Lisa Millard, who is our Recording Secretary and managing the Zoom meeting for

[0:01:09] Voice 15: us with our great thanks.

[0:01:12] Voice 15: This meeting is an official forum.

[0:01:14] Voice 15: If you don't trust me to make decisions about planning matters and discuss relevant business,

[0:01:28] Voice 15: I just wanted

[0:01:36] Voice 10: to add something related to bylaw questions somewhere and ones that are

[0:01:43] Voice 10: open meeting.

[0:01:44] Voice 10: okay

[0:01:46] Voice 15: so so some questions about enforcement

[0:01:48] Voice 10: um

[0:01:49] Voice 15: so is that good enough just in a new business

[0:01:54] Voice 15: or yeah

[0:01:54] Voice 10: that's fine

[0:01:55] Voice 15: no that's

[0:01:56] Voice 15: okay so all right so mr dingman um is taking notice of that and um

[0:02:01] Voice 15: we will talk about it under new business and just i also added uh or circulated this morning

[0:02:08] Voice 15: about a thing from crd about uh wildfire risk um that i thought we could discuss in the web page

[0:02:15] Voice 15: portion of the agenda if you have a chance to review that between one then all righty so

[0:02:23] Voice 15: mr

[0:02:24] Voice 8: spencer thank you just to add also uh under uh number 17 to talk about

[0:02:32] Voice 8: both

[0:02:32] Voice 7: September 20th to October 10th, which sounds like it will prepare us.

[0:02:37] Voice 15: All right. Thank you very much. Okay. So if I consent, we can adopt the agenda as amended.

[0:02:46] And we

[0:02:47] Voice 15: will move down to the trustee report. Who wants to launch? Trustee Morrison?

[0:02:53] Voice 10: No, go ahead, Aaron.

[0:02:57] Voice 6: um it's just uh it's been a bit since we had our last meeting went to trust council

[0:03:03] Voice 6: in the in the process of it and um it's probably one of the first times that i've walked away from

[0:03:09] Voice 6: trust council and actually had uh sort of some value to understanding other what challenges

[0:03:17] Voice 6: is that other islands are going through versus what we locally on pender um seem to focus on

[0:03:28] Voice 6: there's the housing crisis being on salt spring is incredible like absolutely

[0:03:35] Voice 6: astonishing what they're going through in their community right now and and the lengths that

[0:03:40] Voice 6: businesses are going to keep people housed. And so while it doesn't apply necessarily to us

[0:03:51] Voice 6: here now, it's something definitely that we don't want to have happen on Pender

[0:03:57] Voice 6: and raises some tough questions about building out and level of servicing infrastructure and

[0:04:06] Voice 6: and whatnot that we have available on Pender.

[0:04:10] Voice 6: So that was something that has sort of spurred

[0:04:14] Voice 6: a lot of conversations and opportunity to sit

[0:04:18] Voice 6: and talk with people about what they do see wanting

[0:04:22] Voice 6: on Pender moving forward.

[0:04:25] Voice 6: Where should we be focusing time and attention

[0:04:29] Voice 6: as far as the housing crisis is concerned

[0:04:31] Voice 6: and what that looks like as this,

[0:04:34] Voice 6: we have a housing project that's going forward.

[0:04:36] Voice 6: So that was a bulk of time.

[0:04:39] Voice 6: And then also just there seems to be lots of concern

[0:04:43] Voice 6: that one development variance down on Racer Point Road

[0:04:49] Voice 6: and still the ongoing issue on Schooner.

[0:04:56] Voice 6: And there's lots of conversations with folks talking about that.

[0:05:02] Voice 6: So that was basically the bulk of how my time has been spent.

[0:05:08] Voice 6: since June, no,

[0:05:10] Voice 15: July, or whenever.

[0:05:13] Voice 15: I think it was early June, I think.

[0:05:15] Voice 15: So, yeah.

[0:05:18] Voice 13: June 14th.

[0:05:19] Voice 15: June 14th.

[0:05:21] Voice 15: Trustee Morrison.

[0:05:24] Voice 15: Thank you.

[0:05:29] Voice 10: So I feel the need to, because we got so many emails

[0:05:34] Voice 10: and I wasn't able to respond to everybody yet,

[0:05:36] Voice 10: um but i do feel the need to just name that my personal situation continues to be challenging

[0:05:43] Voice 10: um so one of the reasons that i'm not there today um so my brother's ongoing medical issues are

[0:05:53] Voice 10: time consuming put it that way um so that is what it is um in terms of the trust council

[0:06:04] Voice 10: council i brought two motions our request for decisions toward the trust council one was related

[0:06:10] Voice 10: to this structure the review letter for the province um we ended up doing after conversations

[0:06:16] Voice 10: with the governance committee chair and with multiple people i just it wasn't going to pass

[0:06:20] Voice 10: the way it was so we ended up doing this a different version and the package that i prepared

[0:06:26] Voice 10: is went forward and is part of the conversation there will be a letter apparently coming from

[0:06:32] Voice 10: from the Governance Committee to Trust Council in September related to the letter to the province

[0:06:38] Voice 10: on the governance issues. So I really encourage all of you who came out to the Trust Council

[0:06:44] Voice 10: meeting, thank you so much for all the Pender folks who did that, but I really encourage you

[0:06:48] Voice 10: to track the Governance Committee work and the letter that will come forward to the province

[0:06:54] Voice 10: on governance issues. I think that's very relevant for many, many people across the Penders.

[0:07:02] Voice 10: Also put for the dark sky one that was actually really, really well received. We just did the first of four motions because in conversations with people, sort of in the informal moments of Trust Council, people just wanted some time to read through the principles more deeply and to understand them before they did the like second, third, fourth motion.

[0:07:22] Voice 10: so I'll bring those back in September um and but thanks to the community members who brought

[0:07:28] Voice 10: forward the dark sky principles work and I know that's been such a a pain with the why that came

[0:07:34] Voice 10: forward so um but that's good news and then um I think Erin's been involved in this too I've been

[0:07:41] Voice 10: involved in a bit of the tiny house sort of sub trustee group work um that's going on just

[0:07:48] Voice 10: conversations on like what are the rules around tiny houses and can we get them the code from the

[0:07:54] Voice 10: province um you know working in a way that actually helps us with options for that on

[0:07:59] Voice 10: pender and in other gulf islands um because they do seem a really appropriate move for the gulf

[0:08:03] Voice 10: islands if they're um and we don't have to change the building code we just have to ask for specific

[0:08:12] Voice 10: types of things so we're just working through those details and it's actually a lot better

[0:08:16] Voice 10: than i thought it was going to be like what what options we have been already existing in the law

[0:08:21] Voice 10: so or there's a small group of trustees working on that i can't remember exactly here and i think

[0:08:26] Voice 10: it's may read bull and toby ellett myself aaron and there might be one or two others involved

[0:08:35] Voice 10: um and yeah um so that's where i'm at thank you thank

[0:08:41] Voice 15: you mr morrison okay from uh my end of the

[0:08:45] Voice 15: table uh we've been certainly busy with the trust policy statement we've had a couple of community

[0:08:50] Voice 15: whole meetings um about that we're we're slowly um working our way to a process which hopefully

[0:08:58] Voice 15: with the last two meetings have been pretty deeply engaged in camera discussions um

[0:09:07] Voice 15: basically laying out the foundation of the trust policy statement making sure that we're

[0:09:11] Voice 15: we're sort of on the right track um i believe the next one is going to be again it's pretty

[0:09:16] Voice 15: spectacular in the in-camera portion and this is it's it's not secret discussions it's just

[0:09:22] Voice 15: discussions that have to be held in in that manner because we we are truly getting deep legal advice

[0:09:30] Voice 15: then i think we're going to move into a much more public process and a lot more public engagement

[0:09:35] Voice 15: and involvement. The main message is we're not rushing, we're trying to do the right thing.

[0:09:43] Voice 15: One of the things that I'm heartened about is the last draft of the Trust Policy Statement,

[0:09:50] Voice 15: of course we got a lot of negativity, a lot of feedback from the public in massive volumes.

[0:09:57] Voice 15: This one we have not. So I'm hoping that that is a sign that we're actually on the right track

[0:10:06] Voice 15: to actually reaching a conclusion with this project.

[0:10:09] Voice 15: There doesn't seem to be a great deal of controversy.

[0:10:12] Voice 15: And if there is, we need to hear it

[0:10:14] Voice 15: because we're not hearing it.

[0:10:16] Voice 15: So from my perspective, I quite heartened them.

[0:10:20] Voice 15: I think we've actually got it right this time.

[0:10:24] Voice 15: It's mostly controversial stuff has been stripped down

[0:10:28] Voice 15: or changed in a matter that I think

[0:10:31] Voice 15: people are quite comfortable with.

[0:10:32] Voice 15: So I think as an organization, I think it would have done a very good job, in my opinion.

[0:10:39] Voice 15: We got through Trust Council, which was quite something on Salisbury.

[0:10:44] Voice 15: We had a very, very impactful presentation from MLA Adam Olson.

[0:10:51] Voice 15: It was, if you haven't seen it, it's finally just got posted yesterday onto the website.

[0:10:58] Voice 15: It's the evening of the first day, which was Tuesday.

[0:11:02] Voice 15: i really point people to go take the time it was about a 45 minute presentation it was very very

[0:11:08] Voice 15: good um and i'm saddened to note that uh mr olsen's decided not to to rerun um as i said um

[0:11:19] in my um local trust committee um statement to um for august uh you know no matter what

[0:11:28] your political stripes were. Adam Wilson was an outstanding proponent of the islands. He was,

[0:11:36] no matter what your issue was

[0:11:37] Voice 15: between him and his staff, they did stuff. They really, really,

[0:11:43] Voice 15: it was a non-partisan office. They did really, really good stuff and he will be sincerely missed.

[0:11:51] Voice 15: Just as an MLA, as I say, take the politics out of it, he was an excellent MLA. And so hopefully,

[0:11:57] Voice 15: I note that at least one member from the Pedrao communities got his name in, Rob Botterall, to be replacing him.

[0:12:07] Voice 15: I think there's three candidates going forward.

[0:12:10] Voice 15: So I'm hopeful that whoever tries to fill his shoes does a good job because he really was quite good.

[0:12:18] Voice 15: Other than that, I think, you know, we've just been very, very busy.

[0:12:21] Voice 15: This has been by far the busiest summer I've ever seen.

[0:12:25] Voice 15: is is we're doing lots of meetings doing lots of discussions doing the the government's it's

[0:12:32] Voice 15: required in the islands um and i think that you know within reason we're doing a reasonably good

[0:12:38] Voice 15: job it's uh it's as i say we don't get a lot of negative feedback so based on that i assume you

[0:12:45] Voice 15: guys are kind of happy and um do our best so thank you very much so we move on to town hall which i

[0:12:52] guess is the angry part. So we

[0:12:55] Voice 15: ask for a two-minute time limit. We do not enforce a two-minute

[0:12:59] Voice 15: time limit. If you just put your hand up, we'll acknowledge you, if you state your name

[0:13:03] Voice 15: for the record, and we'll move forward. So first in the back.

[0:13:10] Voice 13: I just wanted to ask a question about the development up on Razorpoint mode. And I was

[0:13:20] Voice 13: a little confused about it i couldn't understand the rationale for um approving a building size

[0:13:30] Voice 13: that was so much bigger than what we sort of agreed would be the maximum that that was my

[0:13:37] Voice 13: question i just was wanted to understand the rationale and find out all

[0:13:42] Voice 15: right so trustees

[0:13:43] Voice 15: did you want to sort of touch into that yeah

[0:13:45] Voice 6: i think i was personally um when we were going

[0:13:50] Voice 6: through uh 224 it was in some of the discussion was an inherited discussion given the two um

[0:14:00] Voice 6: the crossover between two different firms um and for myself i was i was never in failure of

[0:14:08] Voice 6: limiting that doing the limiting of house sizing the way that it was laid out in 224 the concession

[0:14:15] Voice 6: was that it's not a binding like it's not a binding um bylaw in that you cannot build bigger

[0:14:26] Voice 6: than that you have to come for a variance and you have to explain your rationale and have that

[0:14:33] Voice 6: conversation with the trustees to get to a point where um we can either say that we would support

[0:14:40] Voice 6: or not supporting and so that was as far as the house size building was concerned that was the

[0:14:47] Voice 6: reasoning for for working through it and it being larger than 45 or five however the the largest

[0:14:57] Voice 6: size is of the three um it's broken into three groups based on on land size so that was

[0:15:05] Voice 13: i have one more question about that um i understand that that property is subdividable

[0:15:12] Voice 13: does that mean that there could be a bunch of

[0:15:16] Voice 13: 1200 square foot houses

[0:15:17] Voice 13: 12 000 sorry that's yeah 12 000 square foot so there could be a lot of big houses up there

[0:15:26] Voice 6: everything would uh would be it's on its own merit as its own application okay

[0:15:32] Voice 13: but it could

[0:15:33] Voice 13: if a trustee decided that yeah

[0:15:36] Voice 6: potentially yeah yeah it could as any any lot of that size

[0:15:44] Voice 6: minimum lot size for that size of a house yeah it could so

[0:15:52] Voice 15: trustee morrison did you have anything to

[0:15:53] Voice 15: add into that yeah

[0:15:56] Voice 10: i um i have been slowly responding to the various people who have

[0:16:00] Voice 10: emailed on it and we'll finish up those responses hopefully today um so the conversations around

[0:16:08] Voice 10: house size um and limiting house size were definitely around the many reasons why we want

[0:16:17] Voice 10: that rural character you know the wealth you know risk that we have in the gulf islands and just

[0:16:26] Voice 10: becoming an enclave for the wealthy um you know fragmentation of forests i mean there's a lot of

[0:16:34] Voice 10: reasons why we argue for um the work one of the other sort of core reasons behind it when i've

[0:16:42] Voice 10: talked with the southern um pender trustees and we had the conversations back and forth because i

[0:16:49] Voice 10: think it was bruce mcconkey who originally and and i don't know if it was wendy or whoever else

[0:16:54] Voice 10: was down on South Pender when they put a cap on house size, you know, all those reasons came into

[0:17:00] Voice 10: play too. So part of the conversation around us doing it was also allowing for the fact that

[0:17:09] Voice 10: variances could be had beyond the house size. Now this is a very big variance and I understand that

[0:17:18] Voice 10: like it's it is a large building the property as it stands could easily have been subdivided and

[0:17:27] Voice 10: they were willing to go and do that and build three separate buildings which would have been

[0:17:30] Voice 10: the same amount and would have caused a lot more forest fragmentation and so by doing it in this

[0:17:38] Voice 10: direction and the build the top of the building won't be that big the footprint will be around

[0:17:44] Voice 10: I think it's 7,000 um and so by doing it in this direction we're limiting the amount of forest

[0:17:51] Voice 10: that's cut in different areas it still could be subdivided you're right but the intent of the

[0:17:56] Voice 10: landowner is to put a covenant and or remove the density off the property so um and I that's a

[0:18:02] Voice 10: question I had for Brad if there's been any paperwork filed yet today but I have had email

[0:18:07] Voice 10: communications back and forth and verbal conversations with them and that is their

[0:18:11] Voice 10: their intent so building the one building allows them to have family come in and stay all in the

[0:18:17] Voice 10: one building and then not build out on any other area of the property so it's a trade-off of

[0:18:26] Voice 10: different things and you're right like there's still a lot of things you could we could say

[0:18:30] Voice 10: we could go into rezoning we could do a whole bunch of other you know moves to do that

[0:18:36] Voice 10: but the reality remains that that property owner had the right without us being involved to go

[0:18:44] Voice 10: ahead with the province and subdivide right away and instead of going in the direction that they

[0:18:51] Voice 10: did so you know we we thought through all of the different possibilities and we could have done the

[0:18:58] Voice 10: rezoning in terms of putting it through a rezoning instead of a variance and that a lot would allow

[0:19:08] Voice 10: the covenants to come on right away or the you know shift the density right away and the reasoning

[0:19:16] Voice 10: for not doing that was that we'd end up hopefully with the same thing in the long run I know there

[0:19:25] Voice 10: is a little bit of question and I think validly so about well but if we did the rezoning it would

[0:19:30] Voice 10: would have allowed more community input and I think that's true yeah you're probably right so

[0:19:35] Voice 10: maybe there's an error in going for the variance versus the rezoning

[0:19:40] Voice 10: but it was a judgment call and I and it wasn't something that was made overnight there was

[0:19:45] Voice 10: multiple conversations and visits to the site and different pieces I don't know how many people

[0:19:51] Voice 10: are aware but it came to my attention after the zoning was done that the landowner had donated

[0:19:58] Voice 10: significant money to rain coast for other property up there and so that is who we're talking about

[0:20:05] Voice 10: we're not talking about and they didn't they didn't directly do it they did it through their

[0:20:09] Voice 10: family foundation which i was

[0:20:12] Voice 10: so they they didn't directly do it they did it through a family

[0:20:15] Voice 10: foundation there was some kind of money that was moved i don't know all the details about it

[0:20:19] Voice 10: um but i was i was interested like sitting down and talking to the person it doesn't seem like

[0:20:28] Voice 10: like a person who's a fly-by-night person

[0:20:29] Voice 10: who's going to turn around and do something like Pirate's Road.

[0:20:32] Voice 10: Okay?

[0:20:33] Voice 10: So that was the decision that was made.

[0:20:37] Voice 15: Okay, so Trustee Morrison, the public didn't quite get that,

[0:20:41] Voice 15: but basically speaking, what you're saying,

[0:20:43] Voice 15: that the family had made a substantial donation

[0:20:45] Voice 15: to the Raincoats Foundation.

[0:20:48] Voice 10: The Family Foundation.

[0:20:51] Voice 15: Yeah.

[0:20:52] Voice 10: And that was something that I found out afterwards,

[0:20:55] Voice 10: after everything had been done.

[0:20:56] Voice 10: and that they were yeah i just so they're part of the pender community and i don't think we can

[0:21:03] Voice 10: brush everyone who has money with like they're just going to do x y and z um so anyway that's

[0:21:11] Voice 10: some of my reasoning and i'll write more to the other folks who have uh emailed but yeah i think

[0:21:18] Voice 10: there's like justifiable annoyance that we didn't go for the rezoning versus the variance but it was

[0:21:23] Voice 10: as a judgment call as it came down.

[0:21:26] Voice 15: Okay, thank you, Trustee Morrison.

[0:21:28] Voice 15: Sure.

[0:21:30] Voice 16: Andy Novak, North Pender Island.

[0:21:33] Voice 16: I've written a letter to you folks

[0:21:35] Voice 16: about my concerns about the razor point decision.

[0:21:41] Voice 16: Historically, I think,

[0:21:42] Voice 16: as far as I've been observing,

[0:21:44] Voice 16: variances are relatively minor.

[0:21:48] Voice 16: People have setbacks, issues, et cetera, et cetera.

[0:21:52] Voice 16: So in my humble opinion, to do something like this on a variance seems inappropriate because it essentially excluded the public from the process.

[0:22:05] Voice 16: I mentioned in my letter that I did see the agenda. I did look at it when this first came up in June.

[0:22:12] Voice 16: I saw the staff report and I go, right on staff, they're saying no to this.

[0:22:19] Voice 16: and i didn't come to the meeting because i trusted you folks to go with what has been discussed about

[0:22:30] Voice 16: house sizes etc so i'm i'm stunned to be honest that this has gone through and listening to you

[0:22:39] Voice 16: today it seems to me and this is very sad that if somebody comes along who can afford to buy a

[0:22:48] Voice 16: property that was listed for $8 million and build a house at another $10 million and talks the right

[0:22:55] Voice 16: talk and is nice and friendly, just gets carte blanche without any guarantees that he's going to

[0:23:04] Voice 16: do what he's going to say he's going to do. This family, I don't know them personally, but from

[0:23:10] Voice 16: from what the Zoogling has provided is a family that is heavily involved in real estate and

[0:23:19] Voice 16: development. I guess I don't have a right to judge him on that, but my alarm bells just go

[0:23:29] Voice 16: right off. Ding, ding, ding, ding. What is going on here? You know, how do we give this person just

[0:23:37] Voice 16: like welcome and it's setting a precedent that i find is very very dangerous you know to people

[0:23:45] Voice 16: just go well you just you know you talk to them in the right way and they'll don't they'll probably

[0:23:51] Voice 16: give you what you want um it seems to me like as ordinary folks we have to wait for permits

[0:24:02] Voice 16: It took us two years to put a covenant on our property because of the bureaucracy.

[0:24:15] Voice 16: And here somebody walks in and is allowed to do what he's proposing to do, which is when we're talking about climate change, a house of that size, plus a cottage, which I would call a house.

[0:24:33] Voice 16: I brought up a whole family at 2,000 square feet. They're calling themselves conservationists.

[0:24:42] Voice 16: What true conservationists would need like 14,000 square feet of living space?

[0:24:51] Voice 16: We're giving this person instant gratification without getting anything in return that is in

[0:25:01] Voice 16: writing. So I ask you again, as I did in my letter, can you please rescind this decision? Thank you.

[0:25:10] Voice 15: Okay, so your next gentleman in the back.

[0:25:16] Voice 10: Can we have the answer to that question before we move on to the next person?

[0:25:23] Voice 15: So the question was can we rescind the decision? Yeah,

[0:25:27] Voice 15: so I think

[0:25:30] Voice 10: that's a fair question.

[0:25:32] Voice 10: staff is that a doable thing i

[0:25:35] Voice 8: think you would only be able to roll back a variance decision

[0:25:38] Voice 8: if you have made some error in process or some kind of statutory step wasn't completed such as

[0:25:46] Voice 8: notification i think you in this case given you made the decision with all the information in

[0:25:53] Voice 8: front of you. Rolling it back now I think would probably get you sued and potentially they would

[0:26:03] Voice 8: have a really strong case. So I don't think that you can roll back your variance once it's granted.

[0:26:09] Voice 10: And can you answer my question earlier about if there had been any paperwork submitted yet?

[0:26:19] Voice 8: It's not up to me necessarily to follow up with that property owner to find out if

[0:26:23] Voice 8: He's now working towards protecting his land base in any way

[0:26:30] Voice 8: because there's no contract or requirement for him to do so.

[0:26:37] Voice 10: No, that wasn't my question, Brad.

[0:26:39] Voice 7: What was your question?

[0:26:41] Voice 10: It was if there has been any paperwork submitted by them yet.

[0:26:45] Voice 7: With respect to what?

[0:26:47] Voice 10: Variances, or not variances, covenants,

[0:26:50] Voice 10: or rezoning application for the density shift.

[0:26:56] Voice 8: rezoning, they would have no interest

[0:26:58] Voice 8: in the rezoning application now

[0:27:00] Voice 8: because they've been granted the variance

[0:27:01] Voice 8: for their house size.

[0:27:03] Voice 8: With respect to submitting a paperwork,

[0:27:05] Voice 8: I think my answer is valid in that I don't know

[0:27:09] Voice 8: what he's doing with respect to going down the road

[0:27:14] Voice 8: of NAPTEP or he's expressed an interest.

[0:27:17] Voice 8: He seemed pretty genuine in that interest,

[0:27:20] Voice 8: but whether he's actually doing that effort or not,

[0:27:23] Voice 8: I do not know.

[0:27:24] Voice 8: thank you

[0:27:25] Voice 2: I have so much respect for all the meetings that you go through and I really

[0:27:33] Voice 2: tried hard to keep this short and I will try I have a lot to say so bear with me please

[0:27:41] Voice 2: I've received responses from my queries from Aaron and Deb and just I want to note that the

[0:27:47] Voice 2: amount of work the meetings the conflicting information the various levels of government

[0:27:52] Voice 2: the complexity of the issues, make for difficult decisions.

[0:27:56] Voice 2: So being a trustee is demanding to say the least.

[0:27:59] Voice 2: And we're all under stress right now.

[0:28:02] Voice 2: In some ways, you have a lot of responsibilities

[0:28:05] Voice 2: combined with not much power.

[0:28:07] Voice 2: When I sat down, I especially want to thank Aaron,

[0:28:12] Voice 2: who I sat down with him on his property,

[0:28:15] Voice 2: and he talked to me for hours,

[0:28:17] Voice 2: and he patiently explained everything.

[0:28:20] Voice 2: You're very patient, Aaron.

[0:28:22] Voice 2: because I'm learning um Aaron gave me a lot of time explaining the process and the reasons for

[0:28:28] Voice 2: the variance on 6601 point razor point road and so I've learned a lot but I still uh walked away

[0:28:37] Voice 2: with you know after you learn something you end up with more questions um I sent to the uh

[0:28:46] Voice 2: the official South Island information

[0:28:49] Voice 2: and to the trustees,

[0:28:51] Voice 2: a brochure from the Friends of the Gulf Islands.

[0:28:55] Voice 2: And that talks about the trust policy stuff

[0:29:00] Voice 2: and that sort of thing.

[0:29:01] Voice 2: So I'll leave that and just stick with,

[0:29:03] Voice 2: I'm going to talk about the two properties.

[0:29:07] Voice 2: The first, which is on the agenda today,

[0:29:12] Voice 2: the staff got realistic votes for the equipment work for the road rehabilitation and a deposit

[0:29:19] Voice 2: of $28,000 is more realistic than their original $5,000 suggestion. I appreciate the work that

[0:29:26] Voice 2: the staff has done on this. So now I would like to talk about the variance given on the

[0:29:34] Voice 2: a 60-acre piece of land with old growth that was zoned, rural residential, was zoned so

[0:29:41] Voice 2: that it could be divided into 18 lots, and you gave this a variance so the owners could

[0:29:49] Voice 2: build a home of 12,000 square feet and a cottage of 2,000.

[0:29:55] Voice 2: I understand it's some of its below ground.

[0:30:00] Voice 2: in exchange for this, he indicated that he would continue to dialogue and consider a

[0:30:05] Voice 2: compliment. In return, he will not subdivide the land. As Andy said, nothing is in writing.

[0:30:14] Voice 2: The language is fluffy, to say the least. Before the decision was made, the planner

[0:30:20] Voice 2: clearly stated that nothing is in writing, and he went ahead knowing this. There were

[0:30:26] Voice 2: where no details worked out for how long he could subdivide,

[0:30:30] Voice 2: for what the covenants would cover,

[0:30:33] Voice 2: and nothing, absolutely nothing, was legally binding.

[0:30:40] Voice 2: The chances of the force being protected

[0:30:43] Voice 2: and there being follow-through on this have gone down

[0:30:47] Voice 2: since you unanimously gave variance.

[0:30:51] Voice 2: The applicant asked for this

[0:30:55] Voice 2: and was given it to save time i do not see this as a reason there are lots of ways this could have

[0:31:04] Voice 2: been done expeditiously without selling the community out the applicant could have donated

[0:31:11] Voice 2: land for instance that doesn't take time it could have been done plus you don't make bad decisions

[0:31:17] Voice 2: because they save time debbie mentioned there was a big donation i was involved in that and i

[0:31:27] Voice 2: This comes as a shock. How do you know this? What was the name of the donation given under? And what was the amount? And even if there was a big donation, that is a separate issue from this. I don't see that that goes into...

[0:31:43] Voice 10: That's clear. I did not make my decision based on that. I found out that after the fact.

[0:31:49] Voice 2: Why did you bring it up then?

[0:31:53] Voice 10: I already talked about that, Julia.

[0:31:59] Voice 10: Why you brought it up?

[0:32:00] Voice 10: I just wanted to correct the point that I did not make the decision based on that.

[0:32:09] Voice 2: Okay.

[0:32:12] Voice 2: But you were explaining why you made the decision and you bought it out.

[0:32:15] Voice 2: So anyway, I may trust somebody when I sell my home, but I still have it written up.

[0:32:24] Voice 2: And you've sold this property without anything written down.

[0:32:28] Voice 2: um and i i think we need now to go through and find out some way of rectifying this there's got

[0:32:39] Voice 2: to be something something that comes up a lot i'm really upset about this too you know we all have

[0:32:46] Voice 2: stresses but this has been just so over the top but it's consistent and a lot of this is covered

[0:32:52] Voice 2: covered in the Friends of the Gulf Islands thing, there's a lot of talk about, I've had

[0:33:00] Voice 2: conversations. It's under dialogue. It's fluffy. These words are used to rationalize what you're

[0:33:09] Voice 2: saying. You can have all the conversations you want. That doesn't mean that something gets done.

[0:33:16] Voice 2: Conversations and education is the work of the trust conservancy.

[0:33:27] Voice 2: They have to do their job and you have to do yours.

[0:33:33] Voice 2: I've been to several meetings, not all of them.

[0:33:36] Voice 2: And my sense is that you've given in to almost everyone who asks for anything.

[0:33:43] Voice 2: thing. Every time you give in to a short-term vacation rental, you take away the possibility

[0:33:49] Voice 2: for long-term housing, stable housing for others. This is a fact. Our whole society is experiencing

[0:34:00] Voice 2: growing disparity. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and your decisions are making this

[0:34:06] Voice 2: worse. I have the sense that you're selling out to the wealthy. I feel such a disconnect.

[0:34:13] Voice 2: between what you have done and what you have promised to do.

[0:34:18] Voice 2: The next generation deserves a healthy environment

[0:34:21] Voice 2: and decent, affordable housing.

[0:34:26] Voice 2: Please continue to have conversations,

[0:34:31] Voice 2: but we need things to be legally binding.

[0:34:35] Voice 2: We need to know what's going on.

[0:34:42] Voice 2: And I'd like to know what you're going to do to rectify the fact.

[0:34:46] Voice 2: that this variance was given before negotiations were even clear.

[0:34:52] Voice 2: Now we're negotiating.

[0:34:53] Voice 2: We're waiting for if they do a covenant.

[0:34:56] Voice 2: This was done on trust.

[0:34:59] Voice 2: And maybe you have trust, but you are representing a whole community.

[0:35:04] Voice 2: And I would say we're a little bit lacking in trust right now.

[0:35:10] Voice 2: Thank you, Carissa.

[0:35:11] Voice 15: Yeah.

[0:35:14] Voice 15: I believe anything is.

[0:35:17] Voice 15: Yeah.

[0:35:22] Voice 4: Yes. Good morning. Good morning. I'm honored to see so many people here. Chris Rober, 45-year

[0:35:29] Voice 4: resident. I'm right beside the helicopter landing. And I back up to the timbers. And

[0:35:50] Voice 4: And all I can say is thank God for the Supreme Court of Canada, because the Dinkers isn't competing with Poets' Cove as a resort, as it wanted to be.

[0:36:00] Voice 4: There's a Supreme Court junked in, and it said you can't do that.

[0:36:04] Voice 4: So I came here today with a whole lot to say, but all I'm really going to say is that I'm really sad.

[0:36:12] Voice 4: Kind of.

[0:36:14] Voice 4: The precedent scares the bejesus out of me.

[0:36:19] Voice 4: I'm serious.

[0:36:20] Voice 4: I went through and looked at the top 10 houses for sale on Vancouver Island, largest ones,

[0:36:28] Voice 4: 9,000, sorry, 8,275, under 9,000, largest house on Vancouver Island for sale.

[0:36:38] Voice 4: Kind of made me swallow.

[0:36:41] Voice 4: And I just want to say if the effort was to the road, and this is Chris Roper's personal opinion,

[0:36:49] Voice 4: If the effort was to erode the preserve and protect and set precedent going forward, you

[0:36:57] Voice 4: two trust members have been 100% successful.

[0:37:01] Voice 4: I'll close and say I'm not a discourager.

[0:37:04] Voice 4: I voted for both of you.

[0:37:07] Voice 4: I'm sad.

[0:37:08] Voice 4: Thank you.

[0:37:15] Voice 11: Yes, I sent a letter to the trustees, and many people are saying things that are on

[0:37:21] Voice 11: my mind, so I really want to keep it brief.

[0:37:24] Voice 11: But I think the two subjects that have come up that are the most important, in my mind, are privilege and precedent.

[0:37:37] Voice 11: You know, who gets what they want? People with the money. Is that the way we want our island to be?

[0:37:46] Voice 11: And precedent. I mean, I've talked with some people on Salt Spring Island.

[0:37:50] Voice 11: They said, oh, boy, there's a lot of people over here.

[0:37:52] Voice 11: They're going to be moving over to Pender Island now

[0:37:54] Voice 11: because they can get a bigger house over there than they can get over here.

[0:37:58] Voice 11: And that scares the jesus out of me, too.

[0:38:05] Voice 11: So I put it back to you, Aaron and Deb.

[0:38:11] Voice 11: You've got a difficult situation on your hand.

[0:38:13] Voice 11: I know you've got a difficult job.

[0:38:15] Voice 11: I appreciate the work you do, and I really appreciate the staff

[0:38:18] Voice 11: and how they've responded to 4815 Schooner,

[0:38:22] Voice 11: the work that's been done there.

[0:38:24] Voice 11: And I appreciate that this staff advised you

[0:38:27] Voice 11: to not go ahead with this variance.

[0:38:29] Voice 11: But I plead with you, find some way to fix this mess

[0:38:34] Voice 11: because it's going to impact all of us

[0:38:36] Voice 11: and it's going to especially impact

[0:38:38] Voice 11: the next generations on these islands.

[0:38:42] Voice 11: You know, this is where we want the kids to come and live.

[0:38:46] Voice 11: they're not going to be able to afford a house of that size where are they going to live so it's

[0:38:54] Voice 11: ironic Aaron that you started off talking about the housing crisis on Salt Spring Island and you

[0:38:59] Voice 11: very very wisely said you know we have to pay attention to that because if it's on Salt Spring

[0:39:03] Voice 11: Island it's going to come here too and what are we going to do and here we are talking about a

[0:39:09] Voice 11: house houses but we're talking about the wrong thing we've got to get back to talking about

[0:39:14] Voice 11: about houses for the people that need them on this island.

[0:39:17] Voice 11: And I just, I support the two of you

[0:39:20] Voice 11: to figure out what to do about this.

[0:39:22] Voice 11: It's not an easy one.

[0:39:23] Voice 11: Thank you.

[0:39:24] Voice 11: Thank you.

[0:39:25] Voice 9: Mr. Sketch.

[0:39:35] Voice 14: Michael Sketch, I live on North Pender Island.

[0:39:39] Voice 14: I attended, I think all the deliberation

[0:39:43] Voice 14: over the land use by-law in the last term

[0:39:46] Voice 14: and the rationale from the trustees of the day um those that decision to

[0:39:55] Voice 14: establish a land use bylaw was binding upon the local trust committee corporation which you are

[0:40:03] Voice 14: it astonished me to read a recommendation from staff which was soundly based carefully

[0:40:08] Voice 14: based the reasoning was good the reasoning was sound although uh this is a caveat

[0:40:14] Voice 14: The trust object was not mentioned in any of the staff rationale, but nor was it mentioned

[0:40:20] Voice 14: in any of the deliberations on house size.

[0:40:24] Voice 14: There is an impact on the natural environment the bigger the bloody house, excuse me, the

[0:40:30] Voice 14: bigger the house.

[0:40:31] Voice 14: For instance, the amount of rainfall that can get through to the ground, 12,000 square

[0:40:37] Voice 14: feet, I gather it's 7,500 plus 2,000, we're looking at 9,000 odd square feet, and it can

[0:40:43] Voice 14: can be argued that that is simply unnecessary.

[0:40:47] Voice 14: The local trust committee could have said,

[0:40:50] Voice 14: well, if you have to have 12,000 square feet,

[0:40:54] Voice 14: this is not the right jurisdiction for you.

[0:40:57] Voice 14: The LCC deliberated at length

[0:41:01] Voice 14: and it began with 2,000 square feet.

[0:41:04] Voice 14: One of the trustees said he can live in 2,000 square feet,

[0:41:07] Voice 14: why can't everybody else?

[0:41:08] Voice 14: And I think wisely, it was Aaron who said,

[0:41:11] Voice 14: said, look, there are people with four children in an office, and let's settle on something

[0:41:17] Voice 14: reasonable at the upper end, like 4,500 square feet, and that's big. There's a house on opposite

[0:41:25] Voice 14: the Driftwood that's not much bigger than that. That is big. And here we are, double that.

[0:41:32] Voice 14: And it went through, frankly, on the nod, a sensible, wise staff report, no reference to

[0:41:41] Voice 14: to the trust object and it went through.

[0:41:44] Voice 14: So my request of you is that you do reconsider

[0:41:47] Voice 14: and you base your reconsideration of the trust object,

[0:41:50] Voice 14: which is a statutory obligation of the LCC.

[0:41:53] Voice 14: Section three of the four of the Islands Trust Act

[0:41:59] Voice 14: requires your table to make decisions

[0:42:04] Voice 14: in the light of the trust object.

[0:42:06] Voice 14: You haven't done it and you have the opportunity now.

[0:42:10] Voice 14: there's a monster house its impact on the natural environment you may assess as deleterious and

[0:42:16] Voice 14: therefore we've refused this application in retrospect and try that out in court

[0:42:23] Voice 14: the trust object is a foundation although almost never referred to in staff report

[0:42:29] Voice 14: of the trust act please consider that how many thank you

[0:42:38] Voice 10: sorry can i ask a quick question

[0:42:42] Voice 10: certainly

[0:42:43] Voice 15: so

[0:42:44] Voice 10: so related and david maybe you can answer this question related to the trust object

[0:42:50] Voice 10: um does a variance have to pass through ec no

[0:42:58] Voice 9: no

[0:42:59] Voice 10: it doesn't it does not okay thank you

[0:43:03] Voice 10: just seems like a variance then is a pathway around it's like a loophole past and i don't

[0:43:12] Voice 10: know brad if there is a rationale why that is the case or david if you know that like why variances

[0:43:17] Voice 10: weren't because they're local government but it seems like they're ways to breach the object

[0:43:24] Voice 10: with ec not being able to oversee the object because they're usually the filter

[0:43:30] Voice 15: I don't know if you have any insight as to through

[0:43:33] Voice 8: the chair development variance is

[0:43:36] Voice 8: only on siting it's not for use against city so that's one reason probably

[0:43:43] Voice 8: most often it is typically granted in cases where it's minor

[0:43:48] Voice 10: back then that's back to

[0:43:52] Voice 10: Andy's point that this is too major to have been a variance that we shouldn't have allowed it

[0:43:56] Voice 10: okay yeah

[0:43:58] Voice 8: so in the case of development variance you have full discretion it's a discretionary

[0:44:03] Voice 8: decision of the local trust committee uh there's also the board of variance which is an appointed

[0:44:10] Voice 8: committee which considers whether a variance is minor or and uh uh more importantly uh whether

[0:44:19] Voice 8: there is hardship uh yeah

[0:44:21] Voice 10: this is not hardship for

[0:44:22] Voice 8: example you need to build on a steep slope

[0:44:24] Voice 8: So those are the two pathways for variance and I would say that every variance going to EC for approval would have just become two covers and not necessarily because most of them are for a shed in a setback or a

[0:44:41] Voice 7: sunbeck jutting out into a ceiling height or something like that.

[0:44:51] Voice 7: Thank you, Planner Smith.

[0:44:54] Voice 7: My name is Kathy.

[0:44:57] Voice 12: And I'm a Retson that lives quite close to this property.

[0:45:00] Voice 12: In fact, my neighbor that lives four doors down actually got a letter regarding 6601

[0:45:06] Voice 12: Reason Point Road.

[0:45:07] Voice 12: Unfortunately, I did not because if I had, I may have responded.

[0:45:11] Voice 12: But really, I thought there's no bloody way, you know, there's no bloody way.

[0:45:17] Voice 12: And now I feel like we may now need to babysit you.

[0:45:21] Voice 12: we now need to get the community engaged for every single thing that's put on the table because i'm

[0:45:29] Voice 12: so disappointed with the choice to accept this and because i live close to there i know lots of

[0:45:36] Voice 12: people that way and i was

[0:45:37] Voice 12: recently speaking to the person who lives directly one of the people

[0:45:40] Voice 12: who live directly by this property and this is the word on the street based on the people that

[0:45:45] Voice 12: are going in and out of that that property because there's now workers going in and out of that

[0:45:50] Voice 12: property. Trees are coming down to build the disc golf course that's going on that property.

[0:45:59] Voice 12: There are road issues up there. When you get to the corner of Razor Point and Harvard Hill,

[0:46:05] Voice 12: and if you continue down Razor Point to the end of that property, it is a single lane. One car

[0:46:12] Voice 12: can go along that road. How smart is it to put that size of house that will require at least

[0:46:19] Voice 12: two years of construction in order to build it you imagine the amount of large vehicles going

[0:46:25] Voice 12: down that road and the people that will have to endure that with trying to get by walking or

[0:46:30] Voice 12: driving thirdly the building permit has not been accepted because chris the building inspector

[0:46:39] Voice 12: doesn't accept plans that were produced in the united states of america which this one was

[0:46:45] Voice 12: architect firm is is from that country so they are going to have to go back and spend another

[0:46:51] Voice 12: hundred thousand on canadian apartment so it's not like this house has got anything going on

[0:46:59] Voice 12: on it yet so you have a little time i think and then of course the bowling alley that i heard

[0:47:05] Voice 12: that was going in the basement just about freaked me out because i thought how many people that have

[0:47:10] Voice 12: have housing issues could live in a bowling out um and as you know garden pond was a huge issue

[0:47:17] Voice 12: up there you're now going to start pounding rock away what are you going to do to our aquifer that

[0:47:22] Voice 12: would be my next question and are you not being a bit hypocritical housing is a main point in your

[0:47:30] Voice 12: your plans for what you're working on and now you're offering this size of home

[0:47:36] Voice 12: at a minimum you should have had a community engagement and i don't know how you're going

[0:47:41] Voice 12: to tell someone else that lives in magic lake that wants to build a house that's four times the size

[0:47:46] Voice 12: that's allowed in magic lake that they can't do it when you've already done this i want to have one

[0:47:53] Voice 12: question if i wanted to build a 12 500 square foot home do i have a choice of coming to a meeting and

[0:48:01] Voice 12: getting a variance like like this gentleman did or do i have the choice of going to a variance board

[0:48:07] Voice 12: Board. Is that true? I do. So no, I don't know, you can

[0:48:14] Voice 8: get a little bit of a variance

[0:48:15] Voice 8: board for through the chair. You can apply for variance either through a development

[0:48:21] Voice 8: variance permit through the local trust committee or through the board of variance. If you get

[0:48:26] Voice 8: refused in one, you can still apply for the other. Local trust committee has total discretion

[0:48:35] Voice 8: discretion on decision-making. The Board of Variants has a very specific, is it minor

[0:48:42] Voice 8: or not? If it is deemed to be minor, then is there a demonstrated hardship? And the

[0:48:47] Voice 8: definition of hardship is pretty loosely defined. So it's really up to the Board of Variants

[0:48:53] Voice 8: to determine if in their consideration, hardship has been met. With respect to staff process,

[0:49:01] Voice 8: staff provide recommendations to the local trust committee.

[0:49:05] Voice 8: We do not provide recommendations to the board of variance.

[0:49:07] Voice 8: We provide them with information.

[0:49:11] Voice 12: So if I go to the board of variance and they say, no,

[0:49:14] Voice 12: can I then come to the trust and vice versa?

[0:49:19] Voice 12: Okay. That's all I have to say about that property.

[0:49:22] Voice 12: And I just wanted to make sure you know that 4815 Schooner

[0:49:25] Voice 12: road is now for sale.

[0:49:27] Voice 12: And then I hope that there's some sort of lien that goes on

[0:49:30] Voice 12: that property that so that when next floor sold

[0:49:33] Voice 12: that purchases that knows that they're going to have a fee involved for restoration so i don't

[0:49:39] Voice 12: know if that's part of what you're able to do or not it's on the agenda for today thank you very

[0:49:44] Voice 12: much yeah

[0:49:45] Voice 10: and sorry go ahead

[0:49:47] Voice 15: um

[0:49:49] Voice 10: yeah that's one of the reasons where we're bringing forward the

[0:49:53] Voice 10: permit for um schooner which i'm not that happy about passing either but um because it will be

[0:50:03] Voice 10: as part of the title then or a part of that not part of the title but Brad can probably explain

[0:50:08] Voice 10: this better but it'll be a notification that goes with the file somehow anybody

[0:50:15] Voice 15: else thank you very

[0:50:19] Voice 15: much all right so we move on uh we don't have any information we don't have public hearing we have

[0:50:26] Voice 15: minutes to consider we have the local trust committee minutes dated June the 14th

[0:50:30] Voice 15: um

[0:50:31] Voice 10: sorry before we go on could we just respond because i mean that was a huge slew of things

[0:50:37] Voice 10: um i feel like there's a need to respond to that

[0:50:40] Voice 15: yeah absolutely before people leave go ahead

[0:50:44] Voice 10: um so yeah so i think that the the points are well made that as a committee we should have

[0:50:51] Voice 10: asked for rezoning instead of a variance so that community input um was involved because the

[0:50:57] Voice 10: variance was too big so i think that is like i apologize to the community because i do think

[0:51:02] Voice 10: that you're right and uh yeah okay

[0:51:08] Voice 15: thank you trustee morris okay so we have minutes june 14th

[0:51:14] Voice 15: does anybody have any concern with those minutes so by consent we will adopt those minutes

[0:51:22] Voice 15: um we have follow-up action list dated july 2020 do you have anything to highlight on that

[0:51:30] Voice 15: I

[0:51:31] Voice 7: do not unless you

[0:51:32] Voice 17: have any questions, Chair.

[0:51:33] Voice 15: Anybody have any questions of Planner Smith?

[0:51:35] Voice 17: No.

[0:51:36] Voice 17: Okey

[0:51:39] Voice 15: -dokey. So moving on to applications and referrals.

[0:51:46] Voice 15: We know the correspondence. We have the North Pender DP2023.3,

[0:51:56] Voice 15: Shane. The staff report this is the Schooner Road property.

[0:52:00] Voice 15: Mr. Planner Smith, do you want to launch off from there?

[0:52:02] Voice 8: Thank you, Chair. So bringing back development permit application NPDEP 2023.3 for the property at 4815 Schemmer Way.

[0:52:14] Voice 8: We have further information for the local trust committee as requested with respect to a cost estimate for site restoration at the property.

[0:52:24] Voice 8: Staff have done additional work to assess the recommendations of the QEP and to provide staff-generated cost estimate of that work, which totals $18

[0:52:39] Voice 8: ,530.

[0:52:41] Voice 8: And staff are recommending that you issue the permit at this time as

[0:52:45] Voice 8: amended with that security amount now included in the attached permit.

[0:52:53] Voice 8: and there are no other changes to the proposed permit that was uh presented to you in previous

[0:53:00] Voice 8: staff reports with that i will turn it back to the chair thanks thank

[0:53:04] Voice 15: you very substantial report

[0:53:05] Voice 15: very well done thank you very much uh trustees you have any questions or comments on this

[0:53:11] Voice 15: i guess the first by

[0:53:18] Voice 6: approving this is the only way that we can attach this to the title

[0:53:26] Voice 6: going forward whether whether they decide to sell whether they decide to sell or not

[0:53:36] Voice 6: we want to make sure that there is a way to address what has already been done there and

[0:53:45] Voice 6: hold even a new owner to needing to rectify their certain

[0:53:52] Voice 8: permit runs with the lands not with the

[0:53:55] Voice 8: owners so the previous owner the current owner has applied for the permit and if you issue the

[0:54:00] Voice 8: permit today then that permit will apply to the land and a new owner would be subject to those

[0:54:06] Voice 8: same permit conditions i don't think it actually goes on registered on title per se uh but certainly

[0:54:13] Voice 8: it would be registered

[0:54:17] Voice 6: and so it's so if somebody i guess if somebody buys this this is attached to

[0:54:28] Voice 6: a specific application they

[0:54:31] Voice 8: wouldn't be able to do they wouldn't be able to get a building permit

[0:54:34] Voice 8: for example to do anything there because as soon as they went to apply for a building permit

[0:54:41] Voice 8: staff would find them development permit okay are

[0:54:46] Voice 10: realtors required to notify about it

[0:54:48] Voice 10: uh

[0:54:50] Voice 8: i i really honestly

[0:54:52] Voice 8: don't know for sure if it would be on title or

[0:54:55] Voice 8: it could potentially be like i don't think it would go on registered on title would have

[0:55:07] Voice 8: would a real estate i would say that a real estate agent would be duly diligent to

[0:55:11] Voice 8: disclose that there's an active development permit uh with um uh clear expectations and

[0:55:20] Voice 8: And the money also runs with the lands.

[0:55:25] Voice 8: So if the new owner,

[0:55:32] Voice 8: well, the security deposit is going to have to be collected.

[0:55:35] Voice 8: And I'm going to guess you're going to have a hard time getting the security deposit off the current owner.

[0:55:42] Voice 8: So it's not going to go away for a new property owner.

[0:55:45] Voice 8: So

[0:55:46] Voice 15: my assumption is that if this is granted, that if we send a copy to the listing realtor, if it is listed, they're legally bound to put in a disclosure statement.

[0:56:00] Voice 8: I've already had communications with realtors with respect to the, with the, well, I assume it's several weeks ago, but I assume it's the realtor that they,

[0:56:11] Voice 6: there's no sign, there's no signage or anything.

[0:56:15] Voice 6: I don't think they're publicly signage in one way for who is listing it.

[0:56:22] Voice 6: You can't drive by and find out who it is.

[0:56:25] Voice 6: It really

[0:56:26] Voice 8: is a hazard.

[0:56:27] Voice 6: That's why I designed it.

[0:56:29] Voice 8: I have already sent them all the staff report information regarding this file.

[0:56:38] Voice 8: So I think, honestly, the best thing you could do today is approve this.

[0:56:43] Voice 8: Yes. And then it removes any ability, for example, for them to get the application

[0:56:49] Voice 6: or get into that.

[0:56:52] Voice 6: would be great i guess that that was my next question was what if if this gets withdrawn

[0:56:59] Voice 6: and the property sells and the new person brings in a new application does that in any way cause

[0:57:08] Voice 6: this security deposit to disappear or the requirement for them to to rework what they've

[0:57:17] Voice 6: done uh

[0:57:19] Voice 8: it would be a different i mean your best your best strategy is just to prove the permit

[0:57:24] Voice 8: today yeah i know but i just want to make sure it's doing

[0:57:29] Voice 6: what we

[0:57:30] Voice 8: hope it's going to do if they

[0:57:31] Voice 8: would approve their application violent enforcement would then be triggered to have some enforcement

[0:57:40] Voice 8: on the property and the new owner would be subject to that a new owner would be subject to i mean i

[0:57:47] Voice 8: guess it really would depend on what your expectations would be whether they can and

[0:57:52] Voice 8: who owns the qep report that's already like all of those

[0:57:55] Voice 6: things right so yeah

[0:57:56] Voice 8: there's a lot of

[0:57:57] Voice 8: what is in that i'm

[0:57:58] Voice 6: just unclear on what the like in these applications yeah there's a specific house

[0:58:05] Voice 6: that's being like they've given us plans for what their development of the property is going to be

[0:58:11] Voice 6: and we attach it to that and likely somebody else coming in

[0:58:15] Voice 6: yeah we attach that likely somebody

[0:58:18] Voice 6: else coming in and buying it is not going to want to necessarily go through what they have

[0:58:27] Voice 6: already gone through they're going to be looking to do build their own house or yeah

[0:58:31] Voice 8: so this the

[0:58:32] Voice 8: the permit doesn't it doesn't consider development of their like in in many cases you apply for a

[0:58:40] Voice 8: development permit if you want to develop in that area and you would then submit a house plan and

[0:58:46] Voice 8: that would become attached in this case

[0:58:48] Voice 8: there's no house plan tied to the permit uh the development

[0:58:52] Voice 8: of the house would be have to be outside presumably outside which i think it always

[0:58:57] Voice 8: so yeah this is

[0:58:59] Voice 8: for the septic field is i think what the large program clearing the area was for

[0:59:11] Voice 8: So in this case, I would think that the future permut would look more or less the same because

[0:59:21] Voice 8: they would be needing to address the same by-law infraction.

[0:59:24] Voice 8: They would be inheriting the by-law infraction that's on the land base, if that makes sense.

[0:59:32] Voice 6: Yeah, I guess that was the clarity was, is it attached to the land or is it attached to the permit

[0:59:38] Voice 8: is attached to the land. It's not. Yeah. Yeah. It's

[0:59:44] Voice 8: Yeah.

[0:59:49] Voice 8: So the premise speaks to that it applies to land it doesn't, it's not permitting a person to do something.

[1:00:00] Voice 15: yeah

[1:00:01] Voice 10: a couple quick things um i thought the amount that we were putting for the security

[1:00:07] Voice 10: deposit was closer to 25 000 but it's 18 500 here um and it's 150 percent um i thought it was

[1:00:16] Voice 10: supposed to be related to the estimate that the conservancy had sent and i thought that was

[1:00:22] Voice 10: 25 000 how did we how is 150 defined like why that 150

[1:00:31] Voice 8: is the contingency so the estimate that's

[1:00:35] Voice 8: provided for you by staff is on is in the staff report that's the

[1:00:42] Voice 8: estimate that cost that staff

[1:00:43] Voice 8: came up with to oh i

[1:00:46] Voice 10: see okay sorry about that

[1:00:48] Voice 8: and that contingency on top of that of 150

[1:00:55] Voice 10: Okay. But then, so that totals, the contingency is 150% of the cost.

[1:01:00] Voice 10: So that comes up to $27,750.

[1:01:02] Voice 10: But when I look in the permit, it says $18,500.

[1:01:07] Voice 8: Right. That's the plus contingency.

[1:01:11] Voice 8: If you look at the wording in the permit, it speaks to an amount of 150% of the estimated landscaping cost.

[1:01:19] Voice 10: Oh, I see what you mean.

[1:01:20] Voice 10: so it's 18,500 times 150 percent yeah okay

[1:01:27] Voice 10: that's a little unclear to me

[1:01:34] Voice 10: I do

[1:01:35] Voice 10: I do see what you're saying it does say that now that I read it more carefully it just is

[1:01:39] Voice 10: because the number 18,500 is there that's like what I went to as the amount but I was thinking

[1:01:45] Voice 10: it was more in the 25 to 27 that's great okay so it is that that great thank you and then I had

[1:01:51] Voice 10: one other question near or two other questions one near item two in the permit which is on the

[1:01:57] Voice 10: top of page 15 of the packet i know that we've had this before with some of the language it's

[1:02:03] Voice 10: the standard language that it says retroactive habitat retro um that we're authorizing retroactive

[1:02:10] Voice 10: habitat restoration i never loved this and i i don't remember what we've done now the because

[1:02:20] Voice 10: because there was one on Magic Lake where somebody cut trees along the edge

[1:02:25] Voice 10: for a house too close, and then it was this retroactive, like,

[1:02:29] Voice 10: variance because it was a bylaw enforcement variance,

[1:02:31] Voice 10: and it just constantly feels like we can't, like,

[1:02:37] Voice 10: we're always retroactively doing this, so what's the point?

[1:02:39] Voice 10: And it comes back to my question about, like,

[1:02:41] Voice 10: how enforceable are these things?

[1:02:43] Voice 10: Can we find people when they do something that's not approved, you know?

[1:02:47] Voice 10: and so the language here brad is there a way for us to say like i don't want to authorize

[1:02:57] Voice 10: retroactive they're they're doing it again can we put language in here that this is like

[1:03:01] Voice 10: this development permit um you know is authorizing retroactive habitat restoration

[1:03:08] Voice 10: due to a bylaw enforcement infraction like are we allowed to say that i

[1:03:14] Voice 8: don't know what you need to

[1:03:15] Voice 8: I think it says what it needs to say it's

[1:03:19] Voice 10: always retroactive

[1:03:21] Voice 6: is it not yeah

[1:03:23] Voice 10: but do you get the

[1:03:24] Voice 10: point is like we're basically on paper it says we're I don't know

[1:03:29] Voice 10: that's

[1:03:30] Voice 8: what you're doing so

[1:03:30] Voice 8: in many cases like for example you made a decision uh the word of the names can escape me but the

[1:03:37] Voice 8: point there uh that was uh not retroactive that was plans and a submission and you considering

[1:03:46] Voice 8: the plans and say yes you can go ahead and do that in this case the work is already done so

[1:03:51] Voice 8: you're retroactively uh having to uh restore the

[1:03:57] Voice 6: habitat okay i mean i guess i'm saying in this

[1:04:00] Voice 6: case in this case of what we're dealing with yeah with these people and a development

[1:04:08] Voice 6: tba infraction it's always going to be retroactive we're always going to have to

[1:04:15] Voice 6: authorize it retroactively because the only

[1:04:18] Voice 6: reason that we're in this situation is that

[1:04:20] Voice 6: somebody's already done it in the case

[1:04:21] Voice 6: of an infraction enforcement yes then they're retro

[1:04:25] Voice 8: right so yeah like what's retro yeah yeah i guess the i

[1:04:31] Voice 8: think you're stumbling over language that

[1:04:32] Voice 8: you don't need to trust yeah

[1:04:34] Voice 10: the problem that i have in these situations brad is that like the

[1:04:38] Voice 10: only reason that we're issuing this permit is because we have no way to the province refused

[1:04:43] Voice 10: to litigate

[1:04:45] Voice 8: it's still issues permit and litigate yeah

[1:04:50] Voice 10: we yeah okay so that's a question for warren

[1:04:54] Voice 10: that we just need to like pin um because okay so this is where i just feel like i kind of asked

[1:05:03] Voice 10: the point of like what is the point again of us doing this and i don't need it's a retroactive

[1:05:09] Voice 10: it's a reflective question okay so under 2d no additional construction development or infrastructure

[1:05:18] Voice 10: or land altered is permitted within 30 minutes of the base of the protected douglas fir

[1:05:23] Voice 10: i'm assuming there's no construction is there actually construction in there

[1:05:27] Voice 10: yeah no

[1:05:33] Voice 6: okay

[1:05:34] Voice 10: so

[1:05:35] Voice 6: it was land alteration yeah

[1:05:38] Voice 10: i just wanted to make sure there was no construction in

[1:05:41] Voice 10: there currently because otherwise I'd want it to be removed so that's fine I just wanted to

[1:05:47] Voice 10: confirm that all right I think we have to go ahead and issue this and then I think Aaron to your

[1:05:54] Voice 10: earlier point I think or David whoever said it I think we also want to put on the record and like

[1:06:00] Voice 10: that we are going to mail this to the listing agent as well as the applicant like a copy of

[1:06:05] Voice 10: this because we want to make sure that the listing agent has the sort of as much as we can do that

[1:06:11] Voice 10: they're obligated to show that they know it i don't want anybody saying that they didn't know it

[1:06:17] Voice 15: um so trustee morrison on page 17 of the agenda um under security um deposit w

[1:06:25] Voice 15: um c um it does say eighteen thousand five yes but it does say it does say 150

[1:06:32] Voice 15: do you want at the end of the board says staff report for a total of and have that twenty seven

[1:06:39] Voice 15: thousand dollar amount i would

[1:06:41] Voice 15: i would

[1:06:42] Voice 10: like that in here clearly stated just so that there's no

[1:06:45] Voice 10: confusion that the amount is 27 000 whatever it was and change instead of 18 000 is that potential

[1:06:53] Voice 15: to put that wording in there what wording is that so so uh the security deposit says w

[1:07:00] Voice 15: you um see um so point three it says 150 of the estimated landing cost escaping cost of 18.5

[1:07:10] Voice 15: so at the end of that staff report could say for a total of about 27 000 just to be very black and

[1:07:18] Voice 15: white and clear it

[1:07:21] Voice 8: already says that by saying in the amount of 150 percent yeah just don't like

[1:07:25] Voice 8: this is a template yeah i'm sure but i just i think you're saying over minor edits here that

[1:07:31] that

[1:07:31] Voice 8: were already stated by just computing

[1:07:35] Voice 8: what that sentence says, which is a new amount of money.

[1:07:39] Voice 15: My only concern is that if it's not clear to the trustees,

[1:07:43] Voice 15: then to anybody else reading it,

[1:07:45] Voice 15: if it's not crystal clear.

[1:07:49] Voice 15: So the motion would be as amended

[1:07:56] Voice 15: and you've got the amendment.

[1:07:59] Voice 15: Okay, so trustees, are you prepared to,

[1:08:03] Voice 15: if you have any other points

[1:08:04] Voice 15: or do you do you want to sort of no

[1:08:07] Voice 10: that's good and just to be clear about this looks great and

[1:08:10] Voice 10: i understand the template of it i just want it to be really clear because this has been a

[1:08:14] Voice 10: contentious one too okay thank you yep so

[1:08:19] Voice 15: on page 10 there's a motion there if somebody wants to

[1:08:22] Voice 15: make the motion but

[1:08:24] Voice 6: the north penrod and local trust can be approved issuance of development

[1:08:27] Voice 6: and permit npdp 2023.3 shaves as amended all right

[1:08:34] Voice 9: secondly

[1:08:35] Voice 15: trustee morrison any further discussion

[1:08:39] Voice 15: okay to call the question all in favor that carries and lisa

[1:08:45] Voice 10: did you get that edit for the

[1:08:47] Voice 10: notes yes

[1:08:50] Voice 12: trustee morrison might have that edit for the notes thank you thank

[1:08:54] Voice 15: you very much all

[1:08:56] Voice 15: all right all right moving forward we have the local trust city projects we have housing project

[1:09:01] Voice 15: project charter and work plans a staff report attached that's on page 26. we're bringing your

[1:09:14] Voice 8: housing project back to the ltc for consideration of the attached project charter work

[1:09:19] Voice 8: plan and engagement strategy and also seeking direction uh from the local trust committee on

[1:09:26] Voice 8: initiating a web-based housing needs

[1:09:30] Voice 8: survey which is something new and something that staff have

[1:09:34] Voice 8: talked about as a as a way to better engage your community to get information and input from

[1:09:42] Voice 8: a broader reach than is currently being realized in these public forums so i think it's all pretty

[1:09:54] Voice 8: pretty straightforward. And with that, I will turn it back to the chair.

[1:09:57] Voice 8: All right, Christine.

[1:10:01] Voice 10: I have a couple of quick questions just related to the housing needs survey,

[1:10:06] Voice 10: because I hear the conversation. I think it was Julia.

[1:10:10] Voice 10: I think it was Julia brought up the issue of STVRs and the housing stock

[1:10:16] Voice 10: related to STVRs. So the,

[1:10:18] Voice 10: the STVR policy that North Pender has

[1:10:25] Voice 10: um you know there's a question there whether it needs to be revisited but frankly i still don't

[1:10:30] Voice 10: think that we have data on like is the stuff that's in the stvr actually would it be in the

[1:10:37] Voice 10: housing stock and so like is there some way to ask that as part of the housing needs assessment too

[1:10:44] Voice 10: because it keeps coming up as a part of the housing conversation um so i guess i'm my part

[1:10:50] Voice 10: part of my question is like what's in the housing survey what would

[1:10:57] Voice 8: in what

[1:10:58] Voice 7: i'm proposing yeah in

[1:11:01] Voice 10: in like the motion to here staff

[1:11:05] Voice 8: report described there under uh on page 27 so the kinds of questions

[1:11:12] Voice 8: that i would suggest are what are your current and future housing needs are those housing needs

[1:11:16] Voice 8: currently being met if not why what would help you to realize those housing needs are there any

[1:11:21] Voice 8: specific regulatory or policy changes that you could see would help whether other actions would

[1:11:27] Voice 8: you like to see improved housing access and affordability this is just a preliminary idea as

[1:11:34] Voice 8: we've had two cims and you've really only had a handful of people at those so it's pretty hard

[1:11:39] Voice 8: to to gauge your community's uh perspective on housing and their challenges perhaps even

[1:11:44] Voice 8: without more information from them directly and so I think an opportunity would be to shape the

[1:11:52] Voice 8: survey to what you think it should be and if you want to probe in those questions we can explore

[1:12:01] Voice 8: those I call it a housing needs survey you could cause it you could call it a housing access and

[1:12:07] Voice 8: affordability project survey to be thought of to be maybe a bit more neutral but i think that

[1:12:19] Voice 8: the next step if you direct staff to go away we would come up with a set of questions and run

[1:12:24] Voice 8: that by you and then go from there i

[1:12:27] Voice 6: think we're running up against i don't know that pender is

[1:12:36] Voice 6: is really as interested in housing as our society has made Pender interested in housing and I we

[1:12:50] Voice 6: people are not that engaged in what housing means to them what affordable housing means

[1:13:01] Voice 6: I keep hearing the same few lines repeated over and over again and they're basically just

[1:13:10] Voice 6: just being parroted from sort of conventional media sources.

[1:13:16] Voice 6: And I had hoped that with the two community

[1:13:20] Voice 6: information meetings that we would get a certain,

[1:13:24] Voice 6: we would get some people that are struggling with housing

[1:13:29] Voice 6: to come out and actually voice their opinions

[1:13:33] Voice 6: and their concerns and what concerns me a little bit

[1:13:37] Voice 6: about the survey and not not critique like not in a critiquing way but residents property

[1:13:44] Voice 6: residents and property owners have a very different view of affordable housing because

[1:13:53] Voice 6: they already have houses and i don't know how we engage people that are struggling to find housing

[1:14:01] Voice 6: on the island and and then and also engage people that have land or would be amicable to

[1:14:11] Voice 6: build something that is uh affordable because conventional building on a residential lot is

[1:14:21] Voice 6: not affordable you can't build a house in magic lake on a magic lake lot and say that it's going

[1:14:28] Voice 6: going to be affordable at the end of the day because the cost of the lot isn't even affordable

[1:14:33] Voice 6: to begin with i don't think there's a lot in magic lake for less than 275 000 just for the

[1:14:40] Voice 6: piece of dirt and that's before anybody has started out building anything on it for accommodations

[1:14:46] Voice 6: and the price of a 500 000 mortgage is now three thousand dollars a month or something like that

[1:14:56] Voice 6: amortized over a 30-year mortgage like we i'm not sure where that i'm not sure that we know where

[1:15:10] Voice 6: we need to go with this and i'm not sure that the residents or property owners are going to be able

[1:15:17] Voice 6: to tell us that that make any sense at all so do you

[1:15:23] Voice 10: have alternative suggestion then i

[1:15:26] Voice 6: don't i've

[1:15:27] Voice 6: just i was i've been reading this and trying to trying to figure out how we get that engagement

[1:15:32] Voice 6: with people here and like brad said we've had two community information meetings i think there

[1:15:37] Voice 6: was six people at the last one

[1:15:39] Voice 8: four of them left three but yeah after the i mean i mean even today

[1:15:45] Voice 8: is a good reply where uh they know this is on the agenda yeah and there's so the other option i guess

[1:15:53] Voice 8: would be to just decide like i think you're right there's an obvious housing need on the island but

[1:16:02] Voice 8: But unlike other island and other communities, there isn't a burning grassroots effort here to make housing happen, it seems, versus in a lot of these other places where that grassroots effort is really being taken up.

[1:16:19] Voice 8: It's also not

[1:16:20] Voice 6: in our faces here yet, right?

[1:16:21] Voice 6: Like when you go to, at that last Trust Council meeting, a few people went and did a little tour and they went in behind Country Grocer.

[1:16:30] Voice 6: and there's 27 trailers parked with people living in those trailers they've got a

[1:16:38] Voice 6: campground in where they're sending people have to leave every 28 days go out on the ferry get

[1:16:44] Voice 6: a ferry certificate to prove that they have left the campground and come back in because the bylaws

[1:16:50] Voice 6: restrict you from staying anywhere for more than 30 days like it we aren't experiencing any of that

[1:16:56] Voice 6: step and so people are not so they don't feel the the crisis maybe

[1:17:02] Voice 8: so your other option would be to

[1:17:05] Voice 8: step back a little bit from trying to get down that road of pushing uphill with engagement

[1:17:09] Voice 8: and just focus on i mean on your

[1:17:13] Voice 8: bylaws on your regulations on applying the housing toolkit and

[1:17:19] Voice 8: focusing on changes within your power that could help to free up housing if that will and desire

[1:17:26] Voice 8: ever presented itself like a more flexible housing model where you're limited in floor size but if

[1:17:33] Voice 8: you have a plan to uh it's challenging the real like a real tool that's needed is a is a individual

[1:17:44] Voice 8: property owner housing agreement model so that a property owner would be bound through a housing

[1:17:51] Voice 8: agreement to have that as a long-term rental that's really tricky to apply and to enforce them

[1:17:58] Voice 8: yeah so i hear you i'm not sure that

[1:18:01] Voice 8: survey is going i think it will give you a whole bunch more

[1:18:04] Voice 8: information uh you can you could i think it would you would ask if they're a property owner or a

[1:18:11] Voice 8: renter yeah people want to rent your property like do

[1:18:14] Voice 9: you are you a resident

[1:18:16] Voice 8: vendor one and

[1:18:18] Voice 8: then another question would be if you are do you live or own your property yeah and then you

[1:18:23] Voice 8: would get probably uh be able to tease results out from i think it would be

[1:18:30] Voice 8: would be it's a whole bunch of work as well so yeah no

[1:18:35] Voice 6: to go through everything i feel like it'd

[1:18:38] Voice 6: be a a good question to ask is would people be open to other forms of housing on their property

[1:18:47] Voice 6: yeah for

[1:18:49] Voice 6: especially for homeowners right would they would property owners be open to that because

[1:18:54] Voice 6: i know in like i don't know if it was ben and deb's term or the term before when they

[1:19:00] Voice 6: approved the um secondary suites in magic lake and there was a two i think people took up

[1:19:10] Voice 6: took two people

[1:19:11] Voice 8: took let's see how they're all these adu and flexi housing schemes

[1:19:17] Voice 8: they sound good in principle but there is very little rapid uptake or very little uptake at all

[1:19:24] Voice 8: as you can attest to on main island where you've done a whole bunch of work too so what you could

[1:19:28] Voice 8: do is do that work to at least enable it which is what i think maine has done without without

[1:19:34] Voice 8: trying to force hands of actually because there's there's like on most other islands there's like a

[1:19:44] Voice 8: property identified in a non-profit society working towards some kind of but i don't think

[1:19:51] Voice 8: there is any yes

[1:19:52] Voice 10: there is yeah we have the we have a pender housing society like with the

[1:19:57] Voice 10: the folks that have worked on plum tree court but

[1:20:01] Voice 7: they're not seeking they have

[1:20:04] Voice 10: been they have been

[1:20:05] Voice 10: thinking with other places but part of the and like this may be i don't want to speak on behalf

[1:20:10] Voice 10: half of them like they can speak on behalf of them but like that might be the better move is

[1:20:16] Voice 10: just to have a conversation with them or to yeah so so we could I we could either there's a couple

[1:20:27] Voice 10: things we could do here one is we could have the APC take on some like reflection and feedback

[1:20:33] Voice 10: and give us some thinking on this because they had the housing toolkit and like have them think

[1:20:40] Voice 10: through more deeply like what's some advice that they could give to us about some directions that

[1:20:44] Voice 10: we could go on the project um i do think the information brad i'm not against a survey i do

[1:20:51] Voice 10: think a survey is good i think we have to really think really intentionally about how it goes out

[1:20:55] Voice 10: so it should go out to the housing society and anybody else they know too and um the anglican

[1:21:01] Voice 10: church who's like come before with options um who is the person who has done the um wanted the

[1:21:08] Voice 10: mobile park what was that do you remember Aaron Rob Fenton

[1:21:15] Voice 10: Rob Fenton so like make sure it goes

[1:21:17] Voice 10: to Rob like those are folks who are in the conversation in Pender about housing right

[1:21:22] Voice 10: people who are struggling with marginal housing who are living in RVs on Pender that is happening

[1:21:28] Voice 10: like we want the survey to get to them right and so like we need to make sure that it hits Rob

[1:21:35] Voice 10: Benton it hits the um is it Pender Housing Society or is it the Palm Tree Court Housing Society

[1:21:41] Voice 10: I

[1:21:43] Voice 6: think it's

[1:21:45] Voice 10: the Pender Housing Society and um and probably the CRD or the CRC

[1:21:52] Voice 10: um the you know and that way I think it could get a little more broad like and as well as what

[1:22:00] Voice 10: you're saying I guess Brad the question is like if we put a survey out like that

[1:22:06] Voice 10: and you know we can talk about what those questions are but like if we put a survey out

[1:22:10] Voice 10: like that the goal is to really see where the challenge areas are and then what kinds of

[1:22:21] Voice 10: changes we could make to our bylaws our role in this is not to actually build housing that's not

[1:22:28] Voice 10: who we are as a government agency our role is to zone places that are appropriate for

[1:22:34] Voice 10: for housing or to shift housing definitions in whatever way is necessary to be able to make

[1:22:43] Voice 10: appropriate housing stock available and and that is something that like the Anglican Church

[1:22:51] Voice 10: Rob Pender the Pender Island Housing Society have all hit problems with having to get like

[1:22:58] Voice 10: rezoning or variance or whatever applications in to do something and it just being this giant

[1:23:03] Voice 10: giant uphill curve like they're not you know shovel ready projects that they can apply for

[1:23:07] Voice 10: money so that's kind of why Maine I think did the work they did so basically you can have the land

[1:23:13] Voice 10: is not the barrier the zoning is not the barrier to any kind of project that might be doable

[1:23:20] Voice 15: that's exactly the perspective you know and typically was is to remove any barriers and

[1:23:27] Voice 15: and basically actively encourage people to do things.

[1:23:31] Voice 15: But as Planner Smith noted, you know, the uptake has not been huge.

[1:23:35] Voice 15: I think we enabled secondary suites six or seven years ago.

[1:23:40] Voice 15: I don't believe one's been built.

[1:23:43] Voice 15: The flex housing project that we did last year,

[1:23:46] Voice 15: I don't think anybody's taken us up on it.

[1:23:49] Voice 15: But we've set the foundation.

[1:23:51] Voice 15: If you want to do something, the road forward is very clear.

[1:23:59] Voice 15: because it's the old you can lead a burst of water is you can't make people do things

[1:24:03] Voice 15: but let's make sure that there's any barriers let's let's sort of take those down and enable

[1:24:10] Voice 15: people to do what they want to do so

[1:24:13] Voice 9: and can

[1:24:14] Voice 6: we i know um it was brought up at that one community

[1:24:19] Voice 6: community information meeting about maybe having our focus be identifying land that could be

[1:24:32] Voice 6: zoned for in

[1:24:34] Voice 8: all of those like there's a land suitability analysis work going on and all of

[1:24:38] Voice 9: those

[1:24:38] Voice 8: in the toolkit it could I mean that would be things that would I would think come out of

[1:24:46] Voice 8: of this work through an action plan.

[1:24:50] Voice 6: So those are the kinds of things that would become.

[1:24:52] Voice 6: Because it seems like the expectation is

[1:24:55] Voice 6: that we are going to do something about it, right?

[1:24:58] Voice 6: Housing in general, that somehow locally,

[1:25:03] Voice 6: the trustees are going to solve affordable housing.

[1:25:07] Voice 6: And it's not actually realistic given that we have no money.

[1:25:12] Voice 6: you know we don't we hold no land

[1:25:15] Voice 15: we have no money but also no there's no capability with

[1:25:19] Voice 15: the legislation that's right we're a land use body and it stops

[1:25:23] Voice 6: there but so if we have if we

[1:25:25] Voice 6: have identified the properties that could be used to do it then it become then it becomes okay

[1:25:37] Voice 6: this is a community conversation becomes how are we going to do this now and that's not an

[1:25:42] Voice 6: island's trust issue once the land has been identified it's our issue until we've identified

[1:25:49] Voice 6: where zoning might be something

[1:25:52] Voice 8: that would be in due purview certainly there's an advocacy role

[1:25:55] Voice 8: collaborative engagement role with crd and other opposing initiatives i think you could also push

[1:26:05] Voice 8: back a little bit on your like if your community is saying well we kind of expect you to fix this

[1:26:11] Voice 8: is like even if you had all the money and regulatory power in the world you need that

[1:26:17] Voice 8: grassroots engagement from the community to to work on things together and so far you're not

[1:26:23] Voice 8: getting that so i think your two options are trying to explore different ways to engage a

[1:26:28] Voice 8: broader section of the community which a survey is one potential tool to do that

[1:26:34] Voice 8: or maybe step back a little bit and let's just focus like we did on maine more on okay what

[1:26:39] Voice 8: let's finish the land suitability analysis

[1:26:42] Voice 8: and have that information available

[1:26:44] Voice 8: so that the community can better understand

[1:26:49] Voice 8: where those appropriate sites are.

[1:26:52] Voice 8: Let's look at our templates.

[1:26:54] Voice 8: Let's engage with a lot of other trusted initiatives around

[1:26:59] Voice 8: like exploring what a housing agreement might look like

[1:27:02] Voice 8: for an individual household owner.

[1:27:04] And

[1:27:04] Voice 8: let's explore our bylaws and maybe when we bring or you bring some ideas back, like right now, we've just been looking for input on housing and we're not getting a lot of that.

[1:27:20] Voice 8: But maybe you have enough of that. And maybe it's just let's just instead focus on bringing information ideas forward.

[1:27:29] Voice 8: and maybe that will generate more conversation around uh a flexible house i mean there's only

[1:27:36] Voice 8: as david knows or sort of just know what's happening

[1:27:44] Voice 8: there's only so many tools

[1:27:46] Voice 6: you have an option so sure change and i i mean my

[1:27:50] Voice 6: i guess my my thing is i don't want to waste time and resources chasing something that isn't going

[1:27:57] Voice 6: going to to really produce anything for us you know you don't need more more work for

[1:28:06] Voice 6: you know but but but if we can find i guess practical things that we can actually accomplish

[1:28:15] Voice 6: that would be great so

[1:28:20] Voice 10: do we have and you're gonna probably tell me this is part of the package

[1:28:25] Voice 10: as I try to work on a small screen.

[1:28:29] Voice 10: So, but do we have somewhere in here

[1:28:33] Voice 10: the details that we would just get like,

[1:28:37] Voice 10: how many houses are there?

[1:28:38] Voice 10: How many cottages are there?

[1:28:40] Voice 10: What's the current landscape of housing on Pender?

[1:28:43] Voice 10: Like, is there a way for us to know how many are rentals?

[1:28:46] Voice 10: How many are like STVRs?

[1:28:49] Voice 10: Like that kind of data would be very helpful

[1:28:51] Voice 10: just to understand the terrain of housing on Pender.

[1:28:55] Voice 10: And then, you know, having the APC take a look at that housing toolkit and make recommendations about what could be done, I think it's quite reasonable to have them dive into that.

[1:29:08] Voice 10: and then you know have a conversation coming back from that maybe Aaron like a little more

[1:29:13] Voice 10: intentionally that's you know invite the Pender Housing Society and Ron Fenton and the Anglican

[1:29:20] Voice 10: Church anyone who's actually weighed in on housing in the past and invite them very intentionally to

[1:29:25] Voice 10: a meeting that is like with the APC reporting out about whatever they think are some options that

[1:29:30] Voice 10: could be a way to like focus it a little more instead of do a broad survey like it's a little

[1:29:38] Voice 10: little bit more like what's the data that we know about how things are on the island and then

[1:29:42] Voice 10: um those are people that are and i guess i i know we haven't had very much engagement this term brad

[1:29:49] Voice 10: but we have had engagement on housing and there are people doing grassroots work on pender on

[1:29:54] Voice 10: housing so they just haven't tapped into this work and that's not surprising frankly because it's

[1:29:59] Voice 10: you know

[1:29:59] Voice 10: you know,

[1:30:00] Voice 10: the islands trust is not fully in communication with community all the time and so i think we

[1:30:05] Voice 10: need to be very intentional about how we hook into people and and then i guess the question i also had

[1:30:09] Voice 10: related to this is are we i mean we're talking so far about a lot of affordability and access

[1:30:17] Voice 10: issues related to housing um aaron when we originally brought up you know and passed the

[1:30:24] Voice 10: land use bylaw the last time with the house cap you wanted to also consider the house cap

[1:30:30] Voice 10: and like the conversation around like can we split density can we you know say like if you

[1:30:37] Voice 10: have 4,500 square feet you can have two buildings on a property or like there were some other pieces

[1:30:41] Voice 10: to that that also wanted to be considered I just want to make sure they're in here too

[1:30:46] Voice 10: yeah

[1:30:51] Voice 6: i mean maybe the survey is the starting point um the first question where your current

[1:31:02] Voice 6: and future housing needs if it's getting out to the right people that could be useful

[1:31:11] Voice 6: information you know that's i don't i'd struggle with the stvr thing and we could wipe it right

[1:31:20] Voice 6: out you know that could be that the end of the these next set september use permits just not

[1:31:26] Voice 6: um not approve them to continue as for current vacation rentals and but i don't actually believe

[1:31:36] Voice 6: that anybody in today's current market is going to buy a house to rent it out like that

[1:31:44] Voice 6: it doesn't make any sense the only rental houses that i have seen on the island that are that are

[1:31:51] Voice 6: coming available are are uh you know nine month rentals or something like that where somebody's

[1:31:59] Voice 6: given a home and that's not really stable housing because for three months a year the person has to

[1:32:04] Voice 6: find somewhere else to live um you know my parents have two rental houses on on pender and i know the

[1:32:14] Voice 6: struggles that they have had in trying to offer them at an affordable rate and and it you know

[1:32:22] Voice 6: not really working out um yeah i just it it seems like the affordability thing

[1:32:35] Voice 6: only plays into it with other levels of government being involved in a society of some sort

[1:32:44] Voice 6: having the ability to manage what those units are whether it's a you know a planned a small

[1:32:54] Voice 6: small-planned community type thing or some sort of a strataed build-out

[1:33:03] Voice 6: where somebody's able to keep an eye on sewer and water

[1:33:07] Voice 6: so that it doesn't, that doesn't become a health issue.

[1:33:13] Voice 6: But that requires other entities to be involved in this conversation too.

[1:33:17] Voice 10: Right, and that's what I'm saying.

[1:33:19] Voice 10: That is, so that is what's going on with Plum Tree Court

[1:33:22] Voice 10: in terms of the you know there is a housing society that has formed that does do that work

[1:33:28] Voice 10: and um yeah but part of the exhaustion i think of the volunteers that run that work

[1:33:36] Voice 10: has been like the zoning or even considering what else could be done you know so can we i think we

[1:33:46] Voice 10: we're talking in circles a little bit so it does sound like we um it sounds to me erin like you're

[1:33:55] Voice 10: saying go ahead and do a survey and then brad that there would be some value in that like we can

[1:34:01] Voice 10: refine what those questions are or whatever i do need i do think if we go ahead and do the survey

[1:34:06] Voice 10: we have to make sure the survey is getting out to folks who are living in rvs because frankly that's

[1:34:11] Voice 10: like from the affordability problem that's like where we're we have a lot of substandard housing

[1:34:16] Voice 10: on this island right now it's just kind of tucked away in corners and uh i

[1:34:21] Voice 8: think that we could run

[1:34:22] Voice 8: the survey from like mid-august by the time we get questions prepared and loaded to the end of

[1:34:28] Voice 8: october or something and it would really be up to the trustees to i think engage your community and

[1:34:34] Voice 8: drive uh the responses getting it on your facebook pages getting it in your scribbler posts

[1:34:43] Voice 8: you have a september or early october cim we could promote the survey and that and do a bit

[1:34:53] Voice 8: more of a maybe try to do a bit more of an open house approach as opposed to patient approach

[1:34:58] Voice 8: uh part of that meeting with the other part being around your after nest presentation stuff perhaps

[1:35:04] Voice 8: so that's that would be and that would give you you know another few weeks of survey time after

[1:35:11] Voice 8: that to continue like i've i did a survey galliana looked at stvrs and the removal of this stvrs and

[1:35:20] Voice 8: we did a survey around stvrs and we got like hundreds of good responses and very few like

[1:35:27] Voice 8: flippant or like people took the time so i think if nothing else it could give you really much

[1:35:34] Voice 8: much better understanding of your housing we

[1:35:36] Voice 6: need so we do need some people yeah we need

[1:35:38] Voice 6: like i think

[1:35:39] Voice 8: you need a different tool yeah we need we

[1:35:42] Voice 8: need something coming to your meetings

[1:35:45] Voice 8: yeah yeah there's motions in

[1:35:49] Voice 7: your stuff so

[1:35:51] Voice 10: so i'm good with all that i do think if we're going

[1:35:53] Voice 10: to do that aaron you and i might want to think about and i don't know when it is i have to look

[1:35:59] Voice 10: look at the calendar here but we might want to actually maybe even just work with the pender

[1:36:04] Voice 10: island housing society to like co-list a table at the fall fair that's like a good way to make

[1:36:09] Voice 10: sure we're trying to get as many people who are coming through as possible to answer the survey

[1:36:13] Voice 10: and just have a couple computers out so if we can have the survey available before the fall fair

[1:36:17] Voice 10: that would be like an ideal moment in time to try and get as many as possible people okay

[1:36:26] Voice 15: so page 26

[1:36:27] Voice 15: six there's a couple of motions for consideration would it be the second one

[1:36:35] Voice 6: or both both yeah if you want to do a survey yeah both if we want to do the survey

[1:36:45] Voice 6: okay well i think both right yeah

[1:36:48] Voice 10: that

[1:36:49] Voice 6: the north pender

[1:36:51] Voice 6: island local trust committee endorsed the

[1:36:53] Voice 6: attached project charter work plan and engagement strategy for the north pender island housing

[1:36:58] Voice 6: access and affordability project? Second.

[1:37:04] Voice 10: I have one other question that I realized I hadn't asked

[1:37:07] Voice 10: yet. So part of this is around the out of scope. It says other non-housing related amendments to

[1:37:14] Voice 10: OCP or LUB. So when we ask about like water sustainability, if it comes up related to

[1:37:21] Voice 10: housing or housing amendments, is that out of housing? Like if there's, I don't, I can't even

[1:37:28] Voice 10: of think of what it might be right now brad but like if there's some aspect of proof of water

[1:37:33] Voice 10: kinds of stuff that might come up is that in or out it

[1:37:36] Voice 8: would be fine i think this is just

[1:37:38] Voice 8: it's really just a general so you're not looking at some other it's almost just a placeholder of

[1:37:46] Voice 8: what you're not doing but i think if you could reasonably put something into scope of actually

[1:37:51] Voice 8: enabling or supporting housing or i think that would be fine for example looking at cistern

[1:37:59] Voice 8: requirements across your whole island as a way to then enable potential housing in areas where

[1:38:05] Voice 8: there are water concerns yeah

[1:38:07] Voice 10: that would be the issue because i do really want to make sure we're

[1:38:10] Voice 10: bringing in the work that was done on the water sustainability effort um in this way because we

[1:38:16] Voice 10: didn't we intentionally did not pursue water sustainability bylaws because we kind of want

[1:38:21] Voice 10: to just weave them in with other work that we're doing and not like not have a whole bunch of other

[1:38:27] Voice 10: bylaws and extra extra stuff that we don't need we want it to be tied to things that our community

[1:38:32] Voice 10: needs um so and mostly that relates to housing across our landscape so okay so i think i'm okay

[1:38:42] Voice 10: with that all right okay so

[1:38:45] Voice 15: ready to call a question call all favor and that carries

[1:38:53] Voice 6: at the north bender island local trust committee direct staff to initiate a web-based qual

[1:38:59] Voice 6: qualitative housing needs survey targeting local residents and property owners to gather

[1:39:03] Voice 6: additional data for use in the north bender island housing access and affordability project

[1:39:09] Voice 6: seconded trustee morrison second

[1:39:11] Voice 10: all

[1:39:12] Voice 15: right so any discussion all the question all in favor that

[1:39:15] Voice 15: carries all right so that's excellent work been done so now we move to part two which housing

[1:39:24] Voice 15: project business case staff report just

[1:39:28] Voice 13: one second i'm sorry um

[1:39:37] Voice 15: page 31.

[1:39:41] Voice 8: so just this is

[1:39:42] Voice 8: is coming from RPM Kojima and just seeking an endorsement of the attached business case for

[1:39:49] Voice 8: your project for fiscal year 2026 as that budget cycle is already underway. So if you pass this

[1:39:57] Voice 8: recommendation, RPM Kojima will bring this forward to Trust Council for approval of funding for next

[1:40:04] Voice 8: to trustees

[1:40:07] Voice 15: yep

[1:40:12] Voice 12: i think that's fine at

[1:40:15] Voice 6: the north bender island local trust committee endorsed the

[1:40:18] Voice 6: attached business case for the housing access and affordability project for fiscal year 2026

[1:40:24] Voice 6: and that staff forward the business case to the relevant committees and to trust council

[1:40:28] Voice 6: second trustee

[1:40:30] Voice 10: morrison second yeah can i have we remedied our our business cases yet

[1:40:38] Voice 10: internally around how much staff time allocation i don't see it on here like i i remember the whole

[1:40:49] Voice 10: conversation on corporate planning and david maybe you know more about this at the ec level but

[1:40:53] Voice 10: like the whole conversation from the governance committee and like i have to take a deep breath

[1:40:59] Voice 10: every time i think about all this governance work frankly because i like one of the things

[1:41:04] Voice 10: that i've like let off on while the governance community has been committee has been doing this

[1:41:09] Voice 10: is like where is staff time allocation in this is that something we're allocating because it's not

[1:41:15] Voice 10: a 20 whatever sorry 23 000 or whatever it is in total across the two years it's that plus staff

[1:41:25] Voice 10: halftime so i kind of would that was what part of what was asked for by to the governance committee

[1:41:33] Voice 10: but i don't see it on the business case am i just missing it somewhere no

[1:41:37] Voice 15: i i think it's still

[1:41:38] Voice 15: that whole thing is in process uh i don't think it's formally adopted yet

[1:41:44] Voice 15: if i recall

[1:41:45] Voice 10: do we know when that's happening we're two years into this term

[1:41:52] Voice 15: let's hope soon because i i do know you're not the only trustees that has brought it up so

[1:41:58] Voice 10: well we're going okay I just you might want to like express that I don't even know if we want

[1:42:03] Voice 10: to say that from our perspective but like we're going into another budgeting season

[1:42:08] Voice 10: and it's just business as usual again on these corporate like the lack of like sort of full

[1:42:14] Voice 10: picture project planning because we constantly get to the point sorry I know this is not trust

[1:42:19] Voice 10: counsel but honestly like we constantly dicker over that the 200,000 or three or whatever it is

[1:42:26] Voice 10: million dollars even level of projects and not the other 10 million dollars of stuff that you know is

[1:42:34] Voice 10: actually we're responsible to our communities for so anyway yes

[1:42:39] Voice 15: your most effective um thing to do

[1:42:42] Voice 15: is talk to the cal because i know it is on her radar quite strongly yes

[1:42:48] Voice 10: julia and i have had

[1:42:50] Voice 10: extensive conversations on this particular issue over the last like six years so

[1:42:55] Voice 15: i would suggest

[1:42:55] Voice 15: just in her position currently that if you want to accelerate she's she would be your best person

[1:43:03] Voice 15: to speak with but i will do things but if you want to do a little bit on your end together maybe we

[1:43:10] Voice 15: can accomplish miracles okay

[1:43:12] Voice 10: i'm just saying that the current way that the trust council is organized

[1:43:16] Voice 10: is that the ec is really responsible to speak with the cao it's not real there there we'll leave that

[1:43:23] Voice 10: we can have that conversation offline there we are still this is part of my tension with passing any

[1:43:30] Voice 10: kind of like new bylaws with enforcement like we've had with shreve everything on our agenda

[1:43:34] Voice 10: today essentially is that without the governance issues resolved like what are we doing so anyway

[1:43:40] Voice 10: all right uh let's go ahead and vote make the vote all

[1:43:45] Voice 15: right so call the question all in favor

[1:43:46] Voice 15: that carries. So next up we have Raptor desk DPA review projects that were

[1:43:54] Voice 15: attached. Planner Smith, any comments or just board trustees? So on page 36.

[1:44:07] Voice 15: So

[1:44:08] Voice 8: just bringing your Raptor project back to the LTC for further consideration and

[1:44:14] Voice 8: direction now you have attached a final uh document final report from the qep from carinas

[1:44:24] Voice 8: environmental uh provide the new report provides some additional information on great blue herons

[1:44:33] Voice 8: and there's been a few great blue heron nests actually identified on the island uh since and

[1:44:39] Voice 8: so

[1:44:40] Voice 8: So the amendments in the reports are mostly reflect including guidelines and provisions

[1:44:51] Voice 8: around great blue herons consistent with the advice of the province and so seeking direction

[1:44:59] Voice 8: to move forward with those amended recommendations including the increased buffering radiuses

[1:45:08] Voice 8: is consistent with pre-virtual guidelines

[1:45:10] Voice 8: and also seeking direction

[1:45:12] Voice 8: to schedule a community information meeting

[1:45:14] Voice 8: where we would prevent this information.

[1:45:17] Voice 8: Staff will also send this information

[1:45:19] Voice 8: as a follow-up to your initial letter to First Nations.

[1:45:22] Voice 8: And also staff based on previous direction

[1:45:26] Voice 8: will send a letter to all households

[1:45:28] Voice 8: where a nest is identified and informing them

[1:45:31] Voice 8: of the work that's going on, the potential changes

[1:45:34] Voice 8: and informing them of your CIM.

[1:45:41] Voice 8: Actually, that would be October 5th if we change that.

[1:45:45] Voice 10: All right.

[1:45:46] Voice 10: This is great.

[1:45:47] Voice 10: I will gladly read this one in.

[1:45:49] Voice 10: Anybody want to comment before I read it?

[1:45:52] Voice 6: No, I think this is...

[1:45:53] Voice 6: You just want to read the good ones.

[1:45:54] Voice 6: Oh, yeah.

[1:45:55] Voice 10: This has been a long time coming.

[1:45:57] Voice 10: I totally want to read this one.

[1:45:59] Voice 10: Okay.

[1:45:59] Voice 10: That the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee directs staff

[1:46:02] Voice 10: to prepare a draft bylaw to update Schedule O

[1:46:05] Voice 10: of the North Pender Island Official Community Plan

[1:46:07] Voice 10: No. 171-2007 and Associated Development Permit Area 7

[1:46:12] Voice 10: provisions consistent with the final professional report

[1:46:15] Voice 10: submitted by Karinais Environmental,

[1:46:19] Voice 10: including the recommendations to increase nest tree buffering radiuses

[1:46:23] Voice 10: consistent with provincial guidelines.

[1:46:26] Voice 15: Thank you.

[1:46:27] Voice 15: Any further discussion?

[1:46:29] Voice 15: Call question on favor?

[1:46:31] Voice 15: No carries.

[1:46:33] Voice 10: That the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee directs staff to schedule a committee information meeting for the Raptor Nest DPA review project as part of the Saturday, September 28th, 2024 special meeting agenda and to advertise this meeting in the Pender Post.

[1:46:49] Voice 6: Trustee Campbell, any further discussion?

[1:46:53] Voice 6: That'll get adjusted when we deal with the meeting date, October 5th.

[1:47:01] Voice 13: Yeah,

[1:47:01] Voice 6: just pass it through.

[1:47:05] Voice 15: okay call the question all in favor yes there is excellent work thank you very much thank you very

[1:47:12] Voice 10: much for working with everyone on this brad this has been like a bit of a long road for us like

[1:47:16] Voice 10: across the need to do this and we're really grateful for it all

[1:47:22] Voice 15: right so we move down to

[1:47:23] Voice 15: reports work program reports we have active projects and future projects i don't know

[1:47:28] Voice 15: nothing to

[1:47:29] Voice 3: speak to there

[1:47:29] Voice 15: any questions on those sorry

[1:47:32] Voice 10: i just have to just if we can slow down a

[1:47:34] Voice 10: little bit i'm on a small screen so

[1:47:36] Voice 15: 51 52 okay

[1:47:41] Voice 10: no that's good okay okay okay

[1:47:55] Voice 15: um then 15.2

[1:47:59] Voice 15: application support this is verbal update is there anything there tyler smith nothing

[1:48:04] Voice 8: thing unless you

[1:48:05] Voice 15: trust the expense reports is attached for information yeah

[1:48:11] Voice 10: i just wanted to

[1:48:13] Voice 10: comment quickly on that i i think i don't know what the if the star says it on here somewhere

[1:48:19] Voice 10: but anyway the um i don't know if the ltc expenses got billed to the trust council or to our ltc for

[1:48:32] Voice 10: For my AVIC meeting that I attended.

[1:48:36] Voice 10: But I did just want to like share back.

[1:48:41] Voice 10: That as we go through the various housing pieces.

[1:48:43] Voice 10: There was a lot of really great useful information.

[1:48:47] Voice 10: In housing ideas of like when you get down to the gritty details.

[1:48:52] Voice 10: Of what could be done in local regions.

[1:48:55] Voice 10: For zoning or grouping that I would really like to explore.

[1:49:00] Voice 10: explore as we figure out what the needs are on the island, and I'll bring those notes

[1:49:05] Voice 10: back in in a more comprehensive way into our conversations.

[1:49:08] Voice 10: So thanks for the support on letting me go to that meeting.

[1:49:11] Voice 10: It was helpful.

[1:49:14] Voice 15: Great.

[1:49:16] Voice 15: Not possible.

[1:49:17] Voice 15: So local trust committee webpage, I emailed out something that just came out from CRD

[1:49:23] Voice 15: about wildfire exposure, and my question was, did we maybe want to ask staff to see if that

[1:49:31] Voice 15: can get attached to the local trust committee web page um apparently this was developed through

[1:49:38] Voice 15: island's trust and crd conjunction um it's two pages of you know eye-opening information

[1:49:47] Voice 9: um um

[1:49:49] Voice 15: so if you're interested i don't know uh do we need to do a motion on that or just can we just

[1:49:54] Voice 15: ask the question and see if you can do it or it can be done probably

[1:49:58] Voice 8: easiest to have a motion

[1:50:02] Voice 15: I think it's easiest if I make the motion that basically staff explore providing the

[1:50:11] link to the CRD water and fire exposure map

[1:50:15] Voice 15: for North Pender to the local trust committee

[1:50:18] Voice 15: web page. Does that make sense? I think that makes sense. Lisa, did you get that in its

[1:50:27] Voice 15: intent?

[1:50:33] Voice 12: Yes, Chair Mott, I got that. Thank you.

[1:50:36] Voice 15: Excellent. All right. Do we have a seconder for that?

[1:50:38] Voice 15: Mr. Campbell, any discussion?

[1:50:41] Voice 15: Call the question.

[1:50:42] Voice 15: All in favor?

[1:50:43] Voice 15: That carries.

[1:50:43] Voice 15: Thank you very much.

[1:50:44] Voice 15: If we can do it, I think it's valuable.

[1:50:49] Voice 15: So new business.

[1:50:50] Voice 15: Okay, we have a conservancy report with tax reform information.

[1:50:53] Voice 15: New business is North Penn around by-law compliance in the forms of a policy.

[1:50:58] Voice 15: Are we going to blend that into your thing that you want, Trustee Morrison,

[1:51:02] Voice 15: or is that a separate topic altogether?

[1:51:05] Voice 10: I think it's a separate topic.

[1:51:08] Voice 15: Okay.

[1:51:09] Voice 15: Okay, so we'll go through this

[1:51:11] Voice 15: and then we'll come back to your other bylaw questions.

[1:51:14] Voice 15: So I see Mr. Dingman has popped up into our world.

[1:51:18] Voice 15: Welcome to North Bend, Mr. Dingman.

[1:51:20] Voice 15: And I guess over to you.

[1:51:24] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): Good morning, Chair, Local Trust Committee.

[1:51:28] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): The report before you is a proposal

[1:51:34] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): to adopt at some future date.

[1:51:37] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): And I'll reference now that ECE has requested that any further consideration or final adoption of these policies take place after the Regional Planning Committee has had an opportunity to review the template and possible approval by Trust Council as part of the By-law Enforcement Review Project.

[1:52:00] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): I have prepared these documents for multiple local trust committees now some with I would call urgent

[1:52:13] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): need to adopt enforcement policies for their islands and what this policy does just in general

[1:52:24] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): terms is it's for enforcement. It takes your standing resolutions that have already been

[1:52:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): adopted, puts them into one document. It provides overall enforcement policies

[1:52:40] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): and guidance for officers. It references inspections and how they're going to be

[1:52:47] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): conducted when and where uh different enforcement procedures you know time to comply the use of

[1:52:54] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): officer discretion in certain circumstances uh when to close files it has something that we

[1:53:02] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): don't currently have a policy on regarding frivolous repeat or vexatious complaints

[1:53:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): and what much of the document does is it uh it fills in gaps at the local level that aren't in

[1:53:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): the trust council enforcement compliance and enforcement policies and for this document

[1:53:24] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): you know i'd just like to note that it's the local trust committee that does enforcement

[1:53:29] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): not trust council so that's why the local trust committees i believe should all adopt

[1:53:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): a document like this you don't have to adopt it

[1:53:42] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): But I think it's just a better way of doing business as far as defining what the roles of bylaw officers are going to be and how we conduct business and to address the concerns that, in some case, both elected officials and residents have about how the whole enforcement process takes place.

[1:54:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): And combined with just the general proposed policies, there's also the screening officer policy that is already adopted for the Bend By-law in Part B.

[1:54:24] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): You know, if at some point you make amendments to the Bend-by-law, these are the policies that would be applied to any screening process that would happen for issued and disputed violation notices.

[1:54:39] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): And so what I've pointed out in the report is that some of the things that Trust Council policy doesn't contain are, you know, references to notice, when to provide notice of site inspections, time to comply, frivolous or vexatious complaints, definition of minor contraventions where local trust committees really may not want enforcement on, small structures or whatever, and the use of discretion by staff.

[1:55:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): and so this is uh you know the first look for the local trust committee at this policy

[1:55:20] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): like i referenced at the beginning uh regional planning committee wants to review the template

[1:55:26] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): they've seen an initial template they'll receive you know review a more complete one and it may go

[1:55:34] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): to trust council for you know final consideration and say approval of

[1:55:39] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): of acknowledgement of this process and these policies

[1:55:44] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): for the local trust committees.

[1:55:47] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): And are there any questions?

[1:55:49] Voice 6: So are we just receiving this then for information

[1:55:57] Voice 6: pending a rewrite of it

[1:56:01] Voice 6: after the regional planning committee sees it?

[1:56:06] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): Well, at this time, if there's any comments,

[1:56:08] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): edits concerns uh that can be i can take a note of that for future edits uh but you're not asking

[1:56:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): to be asking to adopt this at this time it's for your review and to consider whether or not you

[1:56:24] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): want to prove that the recommendation was whether or not you really want to proceed

[1:56:28] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): uh for consideration of this policy okay so

[1:56:34] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): this is sort of the

[1:56:35] Voice 15: first steps of you like what you

[1:56:37] Voice 15: you see in concept, you do the motion, which gives Warren the ability to go forward and

[1:56:45] Voice 15: actually do some revisions that will come back for us for consideration.

[1:56:49] Voice 15: But if you think this is a bad idea, rather than have him do all that work, just tell

[1:56:54] Voice 15: him that don't do it.

[1:56:55] Voice 6: I'm just wondering about the RPC part of it.

[1:56:59] Voice 6: Are we wasting his time saying, do the work, and then RPC comes back and says, we'd like

[1:57:06] Voice 6: to see something different or trust counsel comes back and says we'd like to see something different

[1:57:10] Voice 6: and then he has to start back at square one again that's i just don't want to waste anybody's chicken

[1:57:18] Voice 6: and egg stage yeah

[1:57:19] Voice 10: yeah i'm not on rpc so i'm going to give my opinion so and uh rpc can do

[1:57:26] Voice 10: with it what they will but my

[1:57:28] Voice 6: i okay but i what i'm i guess what i don't understand is are we

[1:57:34] Voice 6: going to see this again after the rpc looks at it

[1:57:36] Voice 9: so through the

[1:57:38] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): chair yes ultimately uh most recent

[1:57:43] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): executive committee meeting they would like this to go through rpc and possibly to trust council

[1:57:47] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): if that's the decision of the regional planning committee and then after that is now done and

[1:57:54] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): really the rest of the work is done in the violent enforcement review and any amendments to trust

[1:58:00] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): council policies that is now the timeline after that work is done then we'll come back with what

[1:58:08] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): would be a more a final policy for the ltc to consider

[1:58:14] Voice 6: right i guess for me i would just want

[1:58:18] Voice 6: to receive it then as information and and start start looking you know it doesn't mean we can't

[1:58:27] Voice 6: look at this and and make some decisions or suggestions penciled out for when we get to that

[1:58:38] Voice 6: point but yeah

[1:58:40] Voice 10: I'll give a couple points of feedback now um because I'd love it to come back

[1:58:45] Voice 10: I'm happy to see it thanks very much Warren for like being able to see it in this moment um I I

[1:58:53] Voice 10: want to think about how it comes back to us like when it comes back to us how it comes back to us

[1:58:58] Voice 10: with the um the issue of us being able to find folks like that we had come up with the last time

[1:59:08] Voice 10: we were talking about this and needed this like there was an issue of like well maybe we would

[1:59:13] Voice 10: have a tool to be able to find somebody that's not in this document right that would be an

[1:59:19] Voice 10: alteration to the ben bylaw that then references this document is that right that's

[1:59:23] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): correct okay

[1:59:24] Voice 10: what

[1:59:24] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): you're talking about is whether or not you want to amend your ben schedules to adopt new

[1:59:28] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): New penalties, make it simplified,

[1:59:30] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): have the penalty for failure to obtain a permit in a development permit area.

[1:59:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): This document would apply to one, okay, when do you want, what type of guidelines do you want around issuing bylaw violation notices?

[1:59:48] Voice 10: For

[1:59:48] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): example, Denman and Main, they want to review files before we proceed to the enforcement step.

[1:59:56] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): So we're doing our investigations, reporting back to local.

[2:00:00] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): trust committees and then okay they're deciding whether or not it's in the best interest of their

[2:00:05] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): local trust area to proceed with enforcement right that

[2:00:09] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): would go into this policy yep

[2:00:11] Voice 10: so we will make

[2:00:12] Voice 10: changes then aaron to your point like but and there will be some template version of this that

[2:00:18] Voice 10: we will then look at and we'll decide if we want to make tweaks to it for our own purpose which i

[2:00:23] Voice 10: i agree with you know i think one that i would love to see in the template um is uh what's it

[2:00:30] Voice 10: here um okay so under 9.0 communications 9.4 it talks about the manager of compliance and

[2:00:44] Voice 10: enforcement will arrange public information and education sessions regarding bylaw enforcement

[2:00:48] Voice 10: when appropriate and time permitting so i really love that that's in there um i'm wondering if

[2:00:55] Voice 10: If there is like, you know, we have with a number of different things, people email us sort of because they hear in community, like, you know, the grapevine tells them things about violent enforcement.

[2:01:10] Voice 10: I'm wondering if there's a way to frame that 9.4 or maybe even add a 9.5 that's a little bit more about like quarterly updates will be provided in writing for inclusion and communications to community or something like that.

[2:01:24] Voice 10: because like we need something that we can put in text that's like your language and it would be

[2:01:30] Voice 10: nice if it just like there was a schedule for it like it just came every quarter or something like

[2:01:34] Voice 10: that and it was updates at a high level of like what are the major issues I don't even know what

[2:01:40] Voice 10: it would be but like like you know the public information notice that or the press release

[2:01:46] Voice 10: that we did related to derelict vehicles way back like that kind of information but smaller

[2:01:53] Voice 10: smaller bite-sized and a little more frequent would help just relieve the grapevine inaccuracies

[2:02:00] Voice 10: that go around community with bylaw enforcement and would it improve a lot of proactive by like

[2:02:05] Voice 10: communications so i don't know how to write it in there but just as a food for thought of like what

[2:02:11] Voice 10: could be in that 9.4 area yeah

[2:02:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): that's understood if we go into the 9.4 section 9 or section 10

[2:02:20] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): 10. Yeah. Here's the,

[2:02:22] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): you know, you may have want two separate reports.

[2:02:25] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): Here's the open meeting public report and then there's the closed meetings

[2:02:30] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): report.

[2:02:31] Voice 10: Yeah. However

[2:02:33] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): you wish to do it. Yeah.

[2:02:34] Voice 10: And in texts that we can like publish, cause you know,

[2:02:38] Voice 10: we've often had that with you, right?

[2:02:40] Voice 10: Around the Shri one and others like, what can we say in our Pentecost?

[2:02:43] Voice 10: So it'd be nice to be like just a proactive thing from you every quarter or

[2:02:47] Voice 10: something, whatever is a reasonable timescale for you.

[2:02:50] Voice 10: um,

[2:02:50] Voice 10: for us just to publish it and be able to publish it out in the post or

[2:02:53] Voice 10: wherever.

[2:02:54] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): So through the chair,

[2:02:56] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): what I,

[2:02:56] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): what we do,

[2:02:56] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): we do this for salt spring and well,

[2:03:00] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): they had a previous resolution that had stopped for a certain period of

[2:03:03] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): time.

[2:03:04] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): We've started it again.

[2:03:05] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): Um,

[2:03:06] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): what I do for salt spring is do it in the,

[2:03:09] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): uh,

[2:03:10] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): quarters opposite of trust council.

[2:03:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): So every six months we,

[2:03:13] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): there are all those reporting is gone to trust council.

[2:03:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): So they are available to the public.

[2:03:19] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): so outside of the trust council reporting there there could be every six months the local trust

[2:03:25] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): committee reporting directly to your local trust committee here or you could you know it's at your

[2:03:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): discretion how often you want it but that's what's happening on salisbury okay

[2:03:35] Voice 10: that's helpful and

[2:03:36] Voice 10: again the reason i thought it landed in nine instead of ten is i do i know what you mean by

[2:03:41] Voice 10: those reports i think what i'm thinking is like something so much more simple and in everyday

[2:03:45] Voice 10: language that our community can understand like and not to

[2:03:49] Voice 13: say that they

[2:03:49] Voice 10: can't follow all the

[2:03:50] Voice 10: technical language of bylaw enforcement sometimes but like something that's like what are the top

[2:03:55] Voice 10: of the pile things that we need to share out with community around bylaw enforcement

[2:04:00] Voice 10: and then we should always put that like reporting bylaw link in that kind of public facing

[2:04:05] Voice 10: communication like you know so that people know how to get information about it

[2:04:09] Voice 15: okay i've been

[2:04:11] Voice 10: been asked for that link so many times okay

[2:04:15] Voice 15: so where have we landed now are are we pause and

[2:04:18] Voice 15: reflect or are we wanting to do the the the recommended function

[2:04:23] Voice 6: i think pause and reflect

[2:04:25] Voice 6: it it doesn't it doesn't seem like it makes sense to redraft three times before it comes back again

[2:04:37] Voice 6: kind of a thing oh

[2:04:38] Voice 10: oh that's interesting i read that recommendation very differently than that

[2:04:44] Voice 10: I read that recommendation as they're going to redraft it after they do all the other stuff.

[2:04:50] Voice 10: I wasn't I didn't hear that

[2:04:52] Voice 10: they're going to redraft it like it's and it's not a specific

[2:04:55] Voice 10: date that they're going to redraft it after they go to RPC after they go to Trust Council

[2:04:59] Voice 10: if that's the decision and then it would come back to us. Yes.

[2:05:03] Voice 10: So I'm okay with this motion

[2:05:04] Voice 10: because I feel like that's what it's going to do. Like we're not going to see this back like

[2:05:13] Voice 10: in September probably we're going to see it back in October and November.

[2:05:18] Voice 5: and then and then we're going to comment on it yeah

[2:05:21] Voice 10: that's right

[2:05:22] Voice 5: and then he's gonna have to

[2:05:23] Voice 5: redraft it again yeah

[2:05:26] Voice 10: but we would have to have a version that is like more the template like

[2:05:30] Voice 10: you're going to redraft it regardless of if we say yes or no to this motion because you're going

[2:05:34] Voice 10: to go through rpc and a bunch of other stuff so and we've already asked for this to be brought

[2:05:38] Voice 10: back to us in our last meeting when it's ready to go so you know we can pass this motion or not

[2:05:45] Voice 10: it's cut it'll come back yeah

[2:05:47] Voice 6: i think we're just accepting it for information

[2:05:55] Voice 10: you need a motion to bring it back to us warren because don't you already have

[2:05:58] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): one no i don't

[2:06:00] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): chair i don't need a motion

[2:06:00] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): no if you just want to receive it for information that's understood

[2:06:04] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): i'll make

[2:06:04] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): the notes and for when we go through the rest of the process it'll come back with some

[2:06:09] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): edits for your consideration

[2:06:10] Voice 10: it's great to see thank you very much warren and the one question

[2:06:15] Voice 10: question that I also had related to it if I can just ask one more question

[2:06:20] Voice 10: I was just wanting to see like as I look down on the bylaw compliance and enforcement I don't

[2:06:26] Voice 10: where am I here page 70 I think this part it would be really nice if there was some place

[2:06:36] Voice 10: on the islands trust website where there was a diagram of like this because this is the steps

[2:06:45] Voice 10: that go on in bylaw enforcement like it's the process of bylaw enforcement right and like I

[2:06:53] Voice 10: need this as a trustee frankly like about when we get to the point where we're thinking about

[2:06:59] Voice 10: like legal action and how like what what does legal action look like I'm still very confused

[2:07:05] Voice 10: about that sometimes and so like I think it would be great if like somebody could take a stab at a

[2:07:10] Voice 10: graphic of like this flow of bylaw enforcement once it's like more concretized in the template

[2:07:16] Voice 10: version so that we could use that as a communication tool so

[2:07:21] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): through the chair those

[2:07:22] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): diagrams exist okay but

[2:07:24] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): they're so quite frankly incredibly complicated we have

[2:07:28] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): to try and make it

[2:07:29] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): much more much more simplified because when you put in all of the steps it's almost unreadable

[2:07:38] Voice 9: and

[2:07:39] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): it's too cluttered on the page

[2:07:40] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): but it's been done

[2:07:42] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): and we can work on a version

[2:07:44] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): of that, no problem

[2:07:46] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): Okay, that'd be awesome

[2:07:48] Voice 15: He's the artist, isn't he?

[2:07:56] Voice 15: So

[2:07:56] Voice 15: at this point in time

[2:07:59] Voice 15: where we're just going to receive this

[2:08:03] Voice 15: Mr. Ding has been given

[2:08:04] Voice 15: sort of the feedback

[2:08:06] Voice 15: and direction and then we'll formally do

[2:08:08] Voice 15: things when it's when it comes back when it's more appropriate yep all

[2:08:13] Voice 15: right thank you mr ding

[2:08:14] Voice 15: so trustee uh morrison you had a second um file enforcement yeah

[2:08:20] Voice 10: my my my question was kind of

[2:08:23] Voice 10: related to that last piece so like um and i don't want to get us into an in-camera conversation here

[2:08:30] Voice 10: but I if you could talk a little bit more high level about like so in situations where the

[2:08:39] Voice 10: province won't enforce on something um and you know we have this conversation a little bit at

[2:08:47] Voice 10: trust council I'm I'm a little stumped frankly on what our next step is either at trust council

[2:08:53] Voice 10: or at LTC for enforcing on development permit areas violations and I'm hoping that what the

[2:09:03] Voice 10: changes you're suggesting in the Bend bylaw are some part of that solution but I also want to

[2:09:09] Voice 10: know if there's a like what is our civil action look like if we ever wanted to take it what like

[2:09:15] Voice 10: I just don't know what to do now in situations that we've had not just one but there's anyway

[2:09:21] Voice 10: Anyway, so if you can give some guidance on that, that'd be helpful.

[2:09:26] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): So it has, I don't have the exact number off the top of my head,

[2:09:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): but the usual way to try and get resolution with these,

[2:09:37] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): the work done in development permit areas without a permit is to file a notice of claim

[2:09:43] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): in order to get a court order to get the property owner to comply,

[2:09:51] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): with the guidelines, do

[2:09:57] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): remediation, and

[2:09:59] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): fix what never should have happened in the first place

[2:10:05] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): because they didn't get the proper

[2:10:08] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): permit in place, they didn't have the proper biologist reports

[2:10:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): in place. So there's, you know, right now

[2:10:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): we've got files like that on

[2:10:19] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): On Salisbury, we've got a file like that on Galliano.

[2:10:26] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): And that's the most used path that we've taken.

[2:10:32] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): Sometimes these go on for a long period of time.

[2:10:34] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): Even with court orders, it can be a struggle to get property owners to comply

[2:10:39] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): and do the work that is ordered, even by the courts.

[2:10:43] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): uh but that is the best uh path you can take uh prosecution can be very difficult

[2:10:52] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): and you know really for the development permit areas as we've now been told by the province

[2:10:57] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): you know uh they need to do it and you know they're not really inclined to do it

[2:11:04] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): uh you know because they prefer that local governments do these this this work of these

[2:11:10] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): prosecute prosecutions but the wording in the legislation is right now is that the local trust

[2:11:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): committees can't do it unlike your bio-enforcement notice uh bylon your land use bylaws you can you

[2:11:24] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): can get your legal counsel to prosecute those contraventions those offenses but you can't do

[2:11:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): it separately for the development permit areas so the best course of action is to do the notice

[2:11:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): a civil claim and then get the property owner through court order to do the required work

[2:11:42] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): and remediation so

[2:11:45] Voice 10: if my understanding is the the only the cost of remediation is covered in such a

[2:11:53] Voice 10: thing like there is no punitive um so so part of my concern is that there is a cost benefit for

[2:12:02] Voice 10: for people to break the law. Right. And I am worried that the benefit for folks to break the

[2:12:10] Voice 10: law is more than the cost of remediation. And so like, I feel like there needs to be some punitive

[2:12:17] Voice 10: component to that. So is there like a way for us with the current development permit area process

[2:12:30] Voice 10: in the province to have that type of punitive or it's only reparative so

[2:12:35] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): with under current

[2:12:35] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): legislation uh there aren't that's not the notice of civil claim is there's nothing punitive about

[2:12:41] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): it it's not a prosecution however the property owner's financial legal liabilities are that

[2:12:50] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): if violence trust wins they're going to have to pay our legal costs and those could be substantial

[2:12:57] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): so if they decide to fight and go into a long fight and what certain circumstances they have

[2:13:04] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): we're talking legal fees over a hundred thousand dollars in some cases so there is a substantial

[2:13:11] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): risk to them if we take them to court and they lose it's you

[2:13:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): know it's not small

[2:13:21] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): you're talking about substantial

[2:13:22] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): amounts of money in some of these cases no

[2:13:26] Voice 10: i totally understand

[2:13:26] Voice 10: that it just seems like from a community perspective if somebody you know reaches

[2:13:33] Voice 10: like a woodland dpa say and cuts a bunch of trees and then says so sorry and goes and plants them

[2:13:39] Voice 10: which we actually have had some on a riparian area multiple times on pender um like because

[2:13:46] Voice 10: they want a nice view and it just bumped their property value by a hundred thousand dollars

[2:13:50] Voice 10: because they have a super nice view now but so the the benefit for them is there and the

[2:13:55] Voice 10: reparative move is actually not that much money to replant a few trees here and there and do the

[2:14:00] Voice 10: work that would be on a that has been on some of those development permits and uh so it feels to

[2:14:06] Voice 10: me like we might need to ask the province for changes in that like there might be an advocacy

[2:14:13] Voice 10: move that we need to make here because it does seem like there has to be some kind of punitive

[2:14:17] Voice 10: component in certain cases where dpas are violated and there is a benefit to violating them that is

[2:14:24] Voice 10: not covered in the remediation effort so i just feel like and and the benefit could be like money

[2:14:32] Voice 10: that goes into community for other conservation work right like it could be a community benefit

[2:14:37] Voice 10: move but i do feel like there is some there's some gap here yeah anyway aaron or david any

[2:14:44] Voice 10: other thoughts on that i'm

[2:14:47] Voice 9: good yeah

[2:14:48] Voice 15: okay well thank you it's it's we always get educated here

[2:14:56] Voice 15: it's a good thing all right so is that that's sort of done with that topic okay

[2:15:03] Voice 10: yeah i guess

[2:15:04] Voice 10: it's just like david just to be really clear like any discussion of development

[2:15:09] Voice 10: permit areas which i would love to put a forestry development permit area like galliano has on

[2:15:14] Voice 10: pender i would love that to be our next project frankly but i am concerned that if we do it

[2:15:21] Voice 10: it's irrelevant because we're like you can go cut a bunch of stuff and then say you're just

[2:15:26] Voice 10: going to plant it and the cost of the wood that you got off of it is a bit more than the cost of

[2:15:31] Voice 10: the replanting so i don't know i'm struggling yeah brad i don't know just

[2:15:37] Voice 8: say through the chair most

[2:15:39] Voice 8: people don't do that most people would respect the requirements so i would say that

[2:15:48] Voice 8: there's always going to be someone that might act against what the bylaw provisions are but

[2:15:56] Voice 8: But most people, I think, want to do the right thing.

[2:16:00] Voice 8: And so creating that would require most people to come forward before they develop.

[2:16:06] Voice 8: And it also pushes people out of those areas of development

[2:16:10] Voice 8: and they choose to develop elsewhere

[2:16:11] Voice 8: because they don't want to deal with development permits.

[2:16:14] Voice 8: So it can also help to preserve habitat by not seeing permits.

[2:16:22] Voice 10: And I agree, Brad.

[2:16:24] Voice 10: I agree completely with that argument.

[2:16:26] Voice 10: argument but it it undermines the reputation of the trust when we have people who violate it who

[2:16:34] Voice 10: can't be like fully punitively prosecuted in some way like that's the dilemma that we're facing as

[2:16:42] Voice 10: an organization and it's bigger than many people realize as like the the unrest is out there in

[2:16:50] Voice 10: community broadly about that okay thank you well

[2:16:56] Voice 15: thank you mr damon this uh as i said been

[2:16:59] Voice 15: educational as always do appreciate your time and uh we will move on so um next up we have

[2:17:09] Voice 15: upcoming meetings we do have a motion that we

[2:17:11] Voice 8: just that the ltc uh direct staff to reschedule

[2:17:19] Voice 8: the september 28th meeting to october 5th okay lisa you've got that it's

[2:17:28] Voice 12: confirming that's october

[2:17:29] Voice 12: 5th yes

[2:17:31] Voice 15: yes

[2:17:32] Voice 12: i've got that thank you

[2:17:33] Voice 15: okay so that is moved by let's say trustee campbell

[2:17:40] Voice 15: uh seconded by trustee morrison sorry

[2:17:43] Voice 10: i just need a moment

[2:17:48] Voice 10: October 5th

[2:17:56] Voice 6: okay so

[2:18:00] Voice 10: there's no other day that it could be

[2:18:02] Voice 10: sorry I thought

[2:18:04] Voice 10: October 5th was going to be fine

[2:18:06] Voice 10: but that is

[2:18:07] Voice 10: it does need to move somewhere because it can't be on the 28th

[2:18:15] Voice 10: either

[2:18:17] Voice 10: okay

[2:18:19] Voice 8: next weekend is

[2:18:20] Voice 8: It's a little long weekend.

[2:18:24] Voice 15: It'll be the Thanksgiving weekend.

[2:18:26] Voice 15: It'll be the next weekend, I would assume.

[2:18:28] Voice 10: And I can't move to the 21st because of some other reason.

[2:18:33] Voice 8: There is UBCM that week, but the 5th looked like it was the best day.

[2:18:42] Voice 10: Yeah, sorry.

[2:18:43] Voice 10: It's just apparently I'm never going to have a holiday with my husband.

[2:18:46] Voice 10: That's my issue.

[2:18:47] Voice 10: so do

[2:18:50] Voice 15: you want to just look at your schedule and we just do an rwm because this isn't time

[2:18:56] Voice 15: sensitive yeah

[2:18:58] Voice 10: i just want it to be done so that we don't have to go back and forth an email because

[2:19:02] Voice 10: i know it's challenging so david are you at ubcm yes okay and it's a saturday that we're looking

[2:19:11] Voice 10: for right so

[2:19:13] Voice 8: one option you could do is you could schedule a because this is you don't have another

[2:19:18] Voice 8: other meeting until then and you don't actually have a meeting where you would deal with business

[2:19:23] Voice 8: items until november so staff we're going to suggest that you create an electronic meeting

[2:19:33] Voice 8: in october you could have a business meeting in september and have this like on that or i guess

[2:19:40] Voice 8: you could move into like the 17th weekend or whatever so

[2:19:44] Voice 15: this is not going to be a business

[2:19:46] Voice 15: meeting this

[2:19:47] Voice 8: is a saturday when you're your saturday special meeting

[2:19:50] Voice 15: community so but so

[2:19:52] Voice 15: does the chair have to be there i

[2:19:54] Voice 6: don't think so necessarily yes you do

[2:20:03] Voice 15: it's just

[2:20:04] Voice 15: because ubcm is the barrier let's not make it the barrier

[2:20:11] Voice 15: this is this

[2:20:12] Voice 8: is a saturday meeting

[2:20:13] Voice 8: but you're going to be

[2:20:16] Voice 15: so i'm gonna be reluctantly attending yes

[2:20:19] Voice 6: do we have do we have enough to hold a community

[2:20:24] Voice 6: information meeting well

[2:20:26] Voice 10: that's also a question too erin like maybe we should put the community

[2:20:30] Voice 10: information later i kind of like that idea brad of like doing the community information meeting

[2:20:36] Voice 10: later in october when we have a little bit more oh and we haven't also dealt with if we're if

[2:20:41] Voice 10: If you're asking the APC anything specific, I'd like in more detail.

[2:20:45] Voice 10: But maybe we have to wait for that information.

[2:20:47] Voice 10: So maybe we wait until we get the information back.

[2:20:51] Voice 10: Oh, but you were thinking, Brad, that we would also have potentially people reply to the survey.

[2:20:58] Voice 10: Okay.

[2:21:00] Voice 10: I think we should move the community information meeting into October, later into October,

[2:21:05] Voice 10: and do the business meeting that you're talking about in September.

[2:21:11] Voice 10: and um or on that weekend that i can do a virtual meeting on that weekend that it's scheduled for

[2:21:19] Voice 10: the friday that it's before that whatever in early october um so i'll

[2:21:26] Voice 8: take that information

[2:21:26] Voice 8: back and i'll talk with robert when he gets back and i can't make the fifth work or i can't make

[2:21:33] Voice 8: the 28th work it sounds like you can't either so we're going to have to reconsider a date for that

[2:21:37] Voice 8: maybe we look for october like 19th and we look at either scheduling an electronic business meeting

[2:21:44] Voice 8: in september to deal with some of the applications like braden has now submitted an application so

[2:21:50] Voice 8: that preliminary report can come forth i assume phil has a few other uh dvp type applications

[2:21:57] Voice 8: so we can look at uh maybe the 27th instead of the 28th we move an electronic meeting to the 27th and

[2:22:06] Voice 8: and then we move your CIM to the 19th of October.

[2:22:11] Voice 10: Yeah, I could do a 27th electronic meeting.

[2:22:14] Voice 10: I'm going to be in New York for Climate Week, but I could do that.

[2:22:22] Voice 6: And the electronic one?

[2:22:26] Voice 15: Yeah, so the Trust Council is from the 23rd to the 26th of September.

[2:22:31] Voice 15: So 27th.

[2:22:34] Voice 10: Yeah, I'll be virtually only into the Trust Council

[2:22:37] Voice 10: Council because it landed right on climate week I

[2:22:40] Voice 8: think I know what what

[2:22:41] Voice 8: doesn't work so I just

[2:22:43] Voice 8: leave it with you all right so the motion will die for a lot of us just leave the motion for

[2:22:48] Voice 8: now and I'll go away and figure out some alternatives and then we can do that okay

[2:22:54] Voice 8: change the the 28th I'm pretty

[2:22:57] Voice 8: good yeah

[2:22:58] Voice 10: thank you sounds

[2:23:00] Voice 7: good yeah

[2:23:02] Voice 10: and Brad the only thing in

[2:23:04] Voice 10: in October was that I'm supposed to go up to Rosland on the whatever that weekend was that

[2:23:09] Voice 10: you change it to the 5th so I'm supposed to be in Rosland I can do electronic stuff that weekend I

[2:23:13] Voice 10: just can't be in person that weekend and I really want to be there in person if I can in my crazy

[2:23:18] Voice 10: life all

[2:23:20] Voice 15: right so we will

[2:23:21] Voice 15: look forward to an RWM at some point yes thank you all

[2:23:25] Voice 15: right we don't

[2:23:28] Voice 15: know what the next meeting is that's so the last thing is town hall we have one member

[2:23:35] Voice 15: um

[2:23:36] Voice 10: sorry chair can i just ask one other question that came up in the flow of conversation do we

[2:23:42] Voice 10: need to ask the apc to do anything more specifically the

[2:23:46] Voice 8: apc is meeting on monday

[2:23:48] Voice 8: to talk about their first referral in front of them which is you have sent them the toolkit

[2:23:53] Voice 8: the housing toolkit and you have

[2:23:55] Voice 8: sent the housing statutes memo that was produced by

[2:23:59] Voice 8: planning staff and this is their first meeting so they will also assign a chair and a vice chair

[2:24:06] Voice 8: at that meeting and i will attend the first part and provide them a walkthrough of their

[2:24:11] Voice 8: orientation materials that's

[2:24:13] Voice 10: great then so maybe if we can just put something on our next agenda

[2:24:17] Voice 10: if there's anything we need to like think about for them to consider next okay that'd be great

[2:24:23] Voice 10: Thanks, Brent.

[2:24:26] Voice 15: So, Count Hall, sir, any...

[2:24:29] Voice 17: Can I make a couple of comments?

[2:24:31] Voice 15: Apparently, the floor is yours, sir.

[2:24:34] Voice 17: Okay, sure.

[2:24:35] Voice 17: I wasn't sure if I'd be writing a little email or what,

[2:24:40] Voice 17: but Mick Collins, part-time resident,

[2:24:44] Voice 17: followed the housing one pretty carefully in Victoria and here.

[2:24:49] Voice 17: I just got a couple of suggestions

[2:24:51] Voice 17: because it's a very difficult area.

[2:24:55] Voice 17: um i'm used to doing marketing plans when i was working and part of it is situational analysis

[2:25:04] Voice 17: where are we now and a more common way of expressing that is a reality check so my suggestion

[2:25:14] Voice 17: of all the ideas that were kicked around during that discussion

[2:25:18] Voice 17: discussion, is I think the island needs a reality check. It needs to understand what

[2:25:29] Voice 17: land is available for what purpose. Is there water that could support any level of development,

[2:25:39] Voice 17: especially anything more than one house? How is the sewage going to be handled, so the

[2:25:48] Voice 17: the infrastructure. And I think some basic economics combined with the mapping element

[2:25:59] Voice 17: that you have would be very helpful. I think what you're going to find is that there's

[2:26:04] Voice 17: very little suitable land that could be serviced by water and sewer based on the somewhat limited

[2:26:14] Voice 17: acknowledge you have hydrology. So you're going to focus the community on this is our land asset.

[2:26:24] Voice 17: This is what it's telling us. What wiggle room do we have? And this is the reality of building

[2:26:35] Voice 17: anything, whether it's subsidized by senior government or not. The other part of it that

[2:26:41] Voice 17: we're wrestling with is what is the status of any citizen group that's trying to achieve the

[2:26:47] Voice 17: objective so when you have a meeting ask them to come and present we do apparently have some

[2:26:55] Voice 17: group here and um i don't know what their current status is but co-produce the meeting with them

[2:27:05] Voice 17: have it as a joint meeting if you have an organization that purports or actually is

[2:27:12] Voice 17: planning or doing something have them come and tell what their situation is how how's their

[2:27:19] Voice 17: board get how's their board do they need more volunteers do they need more money to operate

[2:27:25] Voice 17: they need a feasibility study like co-produce a meeting with some facts and figures so people

[2:27:33] Voice 17: can start to zero in is if we're going to do this there's a very limited number of options we can do

[2:27:40] Voice 17: and if we're going to do it it's going to require massive subsidy and we're going to have to go to

[2:27:47] Voice 17: senior government to get it and these are the programs that are available that might facilitate

[2:27:51] Voice 17: that in order to acquire that money um you're going to have to have somebody do a really good

[2:28:00] Voice 17: good application with a nice support letter from the islands trust because nothing's going to

[2:28:06] Voice 17: happen otherwise it's just ain't um you can play around with secondary suites you can mess around

[2:28:13] Voice 17: with all these so-called people landlords who are running proper stvrs that that's probably about

[2:28:22] Voice 17: 15 of them actually have tups and there's a bunch of airbnbs those none of those properties are

[2:28:29] Voice 17: going to actually turn into rentals because of the landlord and tenant act and because a thousand

[2:28:36] Voice 17: dollar rent can't be supported by the taxes and the and the insurance costs and everything else

[2:28:43] Voice 17: so what we really need and you know it's fine to go and do a survey and i've done dozens of surveys

[2:28:50] Voice 17: in my career

[2:28:50] Voice 3: um

[2:28:51] Voice 17: but really i think the planner's time would be we're very well spent actually

[2:28:56] Voice 17: actually looking at the land base, looking at what the hydrologist says,

[2:29:02] Voice 17: and say, okay, the one thing that I have heard,

[2:29:06] Voice 17: and it was at the meeting before last,

[2:29:08] Voice 17: because I've attended most of the meetings on weekends,

[2:29:13] Voice 17: is there was a fellow who said,

[2:29:18] Voice 17: if we wanted to preserve a big piece of land,

[2:29:21] Voice 17: and there is money for that, it's happening all the time around here,

[2:29:26] Voice 17: Well, the way we would approach it is we'd find a chunk of land that we wanted to preserve and then we'd cut off a little piece.

[2:29:34] Voice 17: Well, assuming it's got access and water and sewer and the government could pump some money into it, maybe that could work.

[2:29:43] Voice 17: But that was the one interesting idea that I heard, we might actually produce something.

[2:29:51] Voice 17: so

[2:29:52] Voice 6: i

[2:29:53] Voice 17: think that's what we need and i'm sure you might have a very strong group here

[2:30:00] Voice 17: but here's an opportunity for them to come and show their stuff and gather more support and the

[2:30:06] Voice 17: other you know detail is advertising these meetings um i i'm not picking up any trust

[2:30:14] Voice 17: notes yet so i look at the board and the driftwood today's agenda is down here and

[2:30:22] Voice 17: somebody's pinned something on it and two pieces of flatbed in the wind there is a

[2:30:29] Voice 17: a locked cabinet with last year's trust meetings all there and I suggested a while ago that somebody

[2:30:39] Voice 17: get access to the key and actually put the trust stuff um so that it's current so how did I find

[2:30:47] Voice 17: out we had a meeting today because I got down to about this level and I carefully unpinned and then

[2:30:54] Voice 17: and I pinned it back in, you know.

[2:30:58] Voice 17: So there's a few ideas.

[2:31:00] Voice 17: I think we have to get really real.

[2:31:03] Voice 17: We have to look at the economics, look at the land base,

[2:31:06] Voice 17: and there are very, very few options.

[2:31:10] Voice 17: And the only option that makes any sense in terms of construction is prefab.

[2:31:16] Voice 17: You've got to have prefab structure to actually provide anything

[2:31:21] Voice 17: that's anywhere near affordable.

[2:31:23] Voice 17: so that's my two cents worth

[2:31:27] Voice 17: and it's for free

[2:31:28] Voice 17: thank you very much

[2:31:35] Voice 17: and I do appreciate the struggle you're having with this one

[2:31:39] Voice 17: because it's extremely difficult and very costly

[2:31:43] Voice 17: and tinkering around with

[2:31:47] Voice 17: secondary sweets and all the rest of it

[2:31:50] Voice 17: I don't think it's going to produce anything.

[2:31:52] Voice 17: And going after FDBRs and thinking they're magically going to turn into long-term rentals.

[2:31:58] Voice 17: Absolute nonsense.

[2:31:59] Voice 17: Thank you.

[2:32:00] Voice 15: Thank you very much.

[2:32:02] Voice 15: All right.

[2:32:04] Voice 15: Well, with that.

[2:32:05] Voice 10: I'd love to

[2:32:06] Voice 10: encourage Mick to be on the APC.

[2:32:09] Voice 10: I know we don't have an open call for it, but just saying.

[2:32:12] Voice 10: Thank you.

[2:32:13] Voice 6: Because we had somebody drop in.

[2:32:15] Voice 6: I didn't hear what you said.

[2:32:16] Voice 6: She said she'd like to encourage you to be on the APC.

[2:32:20] Voice 6: We have vacancies, and

[2:32:22] Voice 3: you'll take part-timers, I guess, just any property owner.

[2:32:27] Voice 3: Well, I'll think about it.

[2:32:30] Voice 3: We would actively think about it.

[2:32:32] Voice 3: I'm saving all the fish and stuff in Victoria.

[2:32:36] Voice 15: Thank you very much.

[2:32:37] Voice 3: Okay.

[2:32:38] Voice 15: All right.

[2:32:39] Voice 15: So with that, I think we can adjourn by consent.

[2:32:43] Voice 15: All right.

[2:32:44] Voice 15: Thank you very much.

[2:32:45] Voice 15: Thank you, Lisa.

[2:32:47] Voice 15: Thank you, Joe.

North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Regular Meeting 
July 26, 2024 ADOPTED Page 1 of 8 
 
North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Minutes of Regular Meeting 
 
Date:  
Location:  
July 26, 2024 
Anglican Parish Hall 
4703 Canal Road, RR#1, North Pender Island, BC 
 
Members Present: David Maude, Chair 
 Aaron Campbell, Local Trustee 
 Deb Morrison, Local Trustee (electronic) 
  
Staff Present: Brad Smith, Island Planner 
 Joe Elliott, Senior Indigenous Relations Advisor (electronic) 
 Warren Dingman, Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement Manager (electronic) 
 Lisa Millard, Recorder (electronic) 
  
Others Present: There were ten (10) members of the public present. 
 
1. CALL TO ORDER 
Chair Maude called the meeting to order at 10:00 a.m. He acknowledged that the meeting was 
being held in territory of the Coast Salish First Nations. 
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 
The following additions to the agenda were presented for consideration: 
 Item 15.5  Wildfire Exposure Risk 
 Item 16.2  Bylaw Enforcement on Development Permit Areas - Discussion 
 Item 17.2   September 28, 2024 Meeting Date - Discussion 
By general consent, the agenda was adopted as amended. 
3. TRUSTEE REPORT 
Trustee Morrison reported the following: 
 Attended Trust Council and highlighted motion and request for decision she put forward 
including writing a letter to the Province regarding a governance review and dark sky 
initiative 
 Involved in Sub-Trustee working group discussing tiny home regulations and options 
 
Trustee Campbell reported the following: 
 Attended Trust Council and noted housing crisis occurring on Salt Spring Island 
 Ongoing conversation with residents regarding their concerns about the approval of the 
Razor Point Road Development Variance and the potential issuance of the 4185 Schooner 
Way property development permit 
A D O P T E D 

 
North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Regular Meeting 
July 26, 2024 ADOPTED Page 2 of 8 
4. CHAIR'S REPORT 
Chair Maude reported the following: 
 Continuing work on the draft Trust Policy Statement to lay foundation for public 
engagement beginning in the fall 
 Attended Trust Council and highlighted Member of Legislative Assembly Adam Olsen’s talk 
on inclusive government 
5. ELECTORAL AREA DIRECTOR'S REPORT - None 
6. TOWN HALL AND QUESTIONS 
Several members of the public spoke to the approval of the Razor Point Road Development 
Permit Variance and the following questions and comments were noted: 
 What was the rationale for approving a building size larger than allowed within the bylaw? 
 Property is sub-dividable and multiple large homes could still be built 
 Variances are typically minor and do not allow for public input as compared to rezoning 
 Staff Report did not recommend approval 
 There are no guarantees that the landowner will do what they say they are going to do 
 Variance approval sets a precedent 
 Local Trust Committee should rescind the decision 
 Property can be subdivided into 18 lots and Trustees approved a variance to build a 12,000 
square foot home and 2,000 square foot cottage in exchange for a legally non binding verbal 
statement that the landowner would not subdivide 
 Trustees have eroded the preserve and protect mandate and set a precedent going forward 
 Trustees need to find a way to fix this situation as the precedent to build larger homes will 
impact future generations 
 Recommendation made in Staff Report used sound reasoning but the Trust object was not 
mentioned in the rationale and Trustees have a statutory obligation to make decisions in 
light of the Trust object 
 The bigger the house the larger the impact on the natural environment 
 Local Trust Committee considered the bylaw on several occasions prior setting the 
maximum floor allowance at 4,500 square feet 
 Road to the property narrows to single lane and decision to allow a 12,000 square foot 
house to be built at the site will impact neighbours for several years due to lengthy 
construction period and construction vehicles using the road 
 Construction will include rock removal which could affect the aquifer 
 There should have been community engagement regarding the application 
Trustees noted the concerns and comments and replied as follows: 
o Bylaw setting out maximum floor area is not binding as an applicant can apply 
for a variance 
o Applicant would still be able to apply for subdivision and a variance to build 
larger homes and each application would be looked at individually 
o Property could be subdivided however the intent of the landowner is to put a 
covenant on the property or rezone to remove the density 
o Applicant was prepared to subdivide the property and build three separate 
buildings to equal the square footage that was approved in the variance and this 
action would have caused more forest fragmentation 

 
North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Regular Meeting 
July 26, 2024 ADOPTED Page 3 of 8 
o Trustees could have requested a rezoning but the landowner had the right to 
move forward through the Province and subdivide right away 
o Multiple conversations and site visits took place prior to a decision to approve 
the variance and it was a judgement call to look at a variance application versus 
rezoning 
o While not known at the time of variance approval the landowner, through their 
family foundation, made a significant donation to the Raincoast Conservation 
Foundation which points to their interest in protection of the island* 
 
Island Planner Smith clarified the following: 
o Variance decision could only be rescinded if there was an error in the process or 
some blatant misrepresentation of fact pertinent to the variance itself 
o Paperwork related to a covenant or density reduction had not been received to 
date and there is no obligation on the part of the property owner to do so 
o Trustees have full discretionary decision on a development variance 
o Applicants can also apply for a variance through the Board of Variance 
 
Trustee Morrison stated comments from the public were well made, the Local Trust 
Committee should have asked for rezoning instead of variance so that community 
input could have been heard, and she apologized to the community stating the 
community is correct. 
 
A member of the public thanked staff for their work on getting realistic quotes for the 
rehabilitation work required on the Schooner Way property.  
 
A member of the public noted that the Schooner Way property was for sale. 
7. COMMUNITY INFORMATION MEETING - None 
8. PUBLIC HEARING - None 
9. MINUTES 
9.1 Local Trust Committee Minutes Dated June 14, 2024 (for Adoption) 
By general consent the North Pender Island Local Trust committee meeting minutes of 
June 14, 2024 were adopted. 
9.2 Section 26 Resolutions-without-meeting Report - None 
9.3 Advisory Planning Commission Minutes - None 
10. BUSINESS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES 
10.1 Follow-up Action List Dated July 2024 
Received for information. 
11. DELEGATIONS – None 
 
*Raincoast Conservation did not work with the landowner on Razor Point to have a community or 
Conservancy benefit in any interactions with the family foundation. 

 
North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Regular Meeting 
July 26, 2024 ADOPTED Page 4 of 8 
12. CORRESPONDENCE 
Correspondence received concerning current applications or projects is posted to the LTC 
webpage 
13. APPLICATIONS AND REFERRALS 
13.1 NP-DP-2023.3 (Shave) - Staff Report 
Island Planner Smith stated that a cost estimate for site restoration has been completed 
and is included in the Staff Report for consideration. 
 
Discussion ensued and the following comments and answers to questions were noted: 
 The property has been listed for sale 
 Development Permit applies to the land and a new owner would be subject to the 
conditions of the permit 
 Development Permit (DP) is  registered to land title 
 An approved DP can be sent to the real estate listing agent, it is understood the 
agent would be required to disclose permit requirements to potential buyers, and 
relevant information included in the Staff Report has been sent to the agent 
 If the DP application is withdrawn, Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement would take 
action on the property and said action would follow through to a new owner 
 The DP is attached to the land and not tied to the building of a house 
 In the Development Permit Security Deposit Section W(c) (iii) add words “for a total 
of $27,750” 
 
NP-2024-049 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that North Pender Island Local Trust Committee approve issuance of 
Development Permit NP-DP-2023.3 (Shave), as amended. 
CARRIED  
14. LOCAL TRUST COMMITTEE PROJECTS 
14.1 Housing Project – Project Charter and Work Plan - Staff Report 
Island Planner Smith noted the proposed Project Charter, Work Plan, and Engagement 
Strategy were presented within the report and asked that the Local Trust Committee 
consider initiating a web-based housing needs survey. 
 
Discussion ensued and Trustees made the following comments: 
 The housing needs survey should seek data on existing housing stock and ask if 
short-term vacation rental housing would be part of the rental housing stock if not 
used for a vacation rental 
 Two Community Information Meetings on the topic of housing have resulted in 
limited public participation and a survey can reach a wider audience 
 It was unclear if the community is interested in housing 
 Trustees are not hearing from people struggling with housing 

 
North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Regular Meeting 
July 26, 2024 ADOPTED Page 5 of 8 
 It is difficult to engage people that are struggling to find, or afford, housing and then 
engage those that already own property to supply additional housing 
 Bylaw changes and regulations could free up housing options for future needs 
 Engagement should include conversation with the Pender Islands Housing Society, 
Anglican Church, and other groups already working on the issue 
 Opportunity to have Advisory Planning Commission provide input on the direction 
of the project or give feedback on the Housing Options Took Kit 
 Purpose is to try to remove barriers and set the foundations to enable options 
 
NP-2024-050 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that North Pender Island Local Trust Committee endorse the attached Project 
Charter, Work Plan and Engagement Strategy for the North Pender Island 
Housing Access and Affordability Project. 
CARRIED 
NP-2024-051 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that North Pender Island Local Trust Committee direct staff to initiate a web-
based qualitative housing needs survey targeting local residents and property-
owners to gather additional data for use in the North Pender Island Housing 
Access and Affordability Project. 
CARRIED 
14.2 Housing Project - Business Case - Staff Report 
Staff are seeking endorsement of the business case for the Local Trust Committee’s 
project for the next fiscal year.  
 
NP-2024-052 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that North Pender Island Local Trust Committee endorse the attached business 
case for the Housing Access and Affordability Project for fiscal year 2026 and 
that staff forward the business case to the relevant committees and to Trust 
Council. 
CARRIED 
14.3 Raptor Nest DPA Review Project – Staff Report 
Island Planner Smith noted that the Staff Report includes the final report from a 
qualified environmental professional which identified new active and potentially viable 
sites. 
 
  

 
North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Regular Meeting 
July 26, 2024 ADOPTED Page 6 of 8 
NP-2024-053 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that North Pender Island Local Trust Committee directs staff to prepare a draft 
bylaw to update Schedule O of the North Pender Island Official Community Plan 
No. 171, 2007 and associated Development Permit Area 7 provisions consistent 
with the final professional report submitted by Caurinus Environmental, 
including the recommendations to increase nest tree buffering radiuses 
consistent with provincial guidelines. 
CARRIED 
NP-2024-054 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that North Pender Island Local Trust Committee directs staff to schedule a 
Community Information Meeting for the Raptor Nest DPA Review Project as 
part of the Saturday September 28, 2024 special meeting agenda, and to 
advertise this meeting in the Pender Post. 
CARRIED 
15. REPORTS 
15.1 Work Program Report 
15.1.1 Active Projects Report Dated July 2024 
   Received for information. 
15.1.2 Future Projects Report Dated July 2024 
   Received for information. 
15.2 Applications Report - Verbal Update  
Received for information. 
15.3 Trustee and Local Expense Report Dated May 2024 
  Received for information. 
15.4 Adopted Policies and Standing Resolutions 
  Received for information. 
15.5 Local Trust Committee Webpage 
Chair Maude circulated information received from the Capital Regional District about 
wildfire exposure risks on North Pender Island and inquired about posting it on the Local 
Trust Committee’s webpage. 
NP-2024-055 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that North Pender Local Trust Committee request staff explore providing a link 
to the Capital Regional District Wildfire Exposure Map for North Pender to the 
Local Trust Committee webpage. 
CARRIED  
  

 
North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Regular Meeting 
July 26, 2024 ADOPTED Page 7 of 8 
15.6 Islands Trust Conservancy Report Dated April 2024 and May 2024 
  Received for information. 
16. NEW BUSINESS 
16.1 North Pender Island Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement Policy - Staff Report 
Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement Manager Dingman summarized the Staff Report 
and highlighted the following: 
 Proposing to incorporate all current standing resolutions and local polices for bylaw 
enforcement into one document 
 Document will define roles of Bylaw Officers and how they conduct business such as 
when to close files and how to manage frivolous or repeat complaints 
 Regional Planning Committee will be reviewing the document template and 
forwarding it for consideration by Trust Council before it comes back to the Local 
Trust Committee for additions and amendments 
 
Discussion ensued and Trustees indicated that they would like a quarterly update with 
speaking points on current bylaw enforcement so they can provide accurate information 
to the community in order to eliminate rumours. 
 
16.2 Bylaw Enforcement on Development Permit Areas - Discussion 
 
A Trustee asked for clarification on options available when the Province will not enforce 
on Develop Permit Area violations and asked if a punitive component to violations is 
possible. 
 
Bylaw Enforcement and Compliance Manager Dingman replied resolution to an issue 
related to work done without a permit is typically sought by filing a notice of claim for a 
court order demanding the property owner comply with the remediation guidelines. He 
clarified that a notice of civil claim does not provide punitive damages but does require 
that a defendant pay legal costs of the claimant if the defendant loses the case. 
17. UPCOMING MEETINGS 
17.1 Next Special Meeting Scheduled for September 28, 2024 at the Pender Island 
Community Hall, Pender Island 
 17.2 September 28, 2024 Meeting - Discussion 
Island Planner Smith noted that the September 28, 2024 meeting would need to be 
rescheduled and will provide Trustees with alternate dates for consideration. 
18. TOWN HALL  
A member of the public spoke to the housing issue and stated that the Local Trust Committee 
should do the following:  
 Ask what land is available, for what purpose, if it can support development, and how septic 
can be managed 
 Ask the status of any citizen group that is trying to achieve the objective, invite the group to 
provide information on what they are doing and what they need to achieve their goals 

 
North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Regular Meeting 
July 26, 2024 ADOPTED Page 8 of 8 
 Recognize that short term vacation rentals are not going to turn into rental housing 
 Find land to preserve and take a small part of it for housing 
19. CLOSED MEETING – None 
20. ADJOURNMENT 
By general consent the meeting was adjourned at 12:33 p.m. 
 
 
 
_________________________ 
David Maude, Chair 
 
 
Certified Correct: 
 
_________________________ 
Lisa Millard, Recorder