Gambier Island Local Trust Committee community information meeting, July 31, 2024

[0:00:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): Well, good morning, everyone. Really great to see such a terrific turnout. I think this is only the second public hearing I've done to the Gambier-Keats Trust here, and we always have a good turnout. Fantastic. Thank you for being here today.

[0:00:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): So my name is Peter

[0:00:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): Luckham. I'm elected on Thetis Island in the Laiakson and Penelaket Territory, and I'm chair of Trust Council and the appointed chair of the Gambier-Keats Local Trust Committee.

[0:00:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): Really grateful to be here, to hear your comments today on the bylaws number 153 and 154.

[0:00:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): I want to recognize, of course, that we're meeting in Coachella's territory, specifically the Squamish nation,

[0:00:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): and I'm really grateful to have that opportunity to live, work, and learn about the history of this place

[0:00:44] Trustee Luckham (probable): with the people that have been here since time immemorial.

[0:00:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): I think you probably all know your trustees, but nonetheless, Kate Louise Stanford.

[0:00:53] Voice 4: Good morning. Happy to be here.

[0:00:55] Voice 4: I'm from Tullowich, your friendly neighbor to the north of Gabbier Island.

[0:01:04] Voice 17: Yes, I'm Joe Bernardo from the Pines, also from Keats Island, and welcome

[0:01:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): to the island.

[0:01:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): And joining us here today and supporting us is staff Marlis McCarter and Nadine Moreau, our legislative clerk.

[0:01:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): She's going to make sure we're on a straight and narrow course here.

[0:01:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): legislation and of course online we have lisa burrito looking after our technology and meeting

[0:01:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): minutes and want to thank each of you for the work that you've done to get us here today um

[0:01:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): with that said um we've got a special meeting agenda which i'm going to call the meeting to

[0:01:44] Trustee Luckham (probable): order and uh and uh ask for approval of the agenda i do want to add a new item at local

[0:01:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): of immediate projects at 4.2 which is to um provide direction to staff to create a business

[0:02:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): case for the ocp that we had a meeting about yesterday uh so that's an additional item for

[0:02:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): today's agenda i'll just ask if there's anything else to add all right then i'm going to say that

[0:02:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): that we shall adopt the agenda by general consent as amended

[0:02:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): and we'll move forward with the first part of the session.

[0:02:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): There's two main parts,

[0:02:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): community information meeting section

[0:02:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): is where we tell you everything that we know

[0:02:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): about the bylaw and staff is gonna read that.

[0:02:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): And then we recess the special meeting

[0:02:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): and we move into a public hearing process

[0:02:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): where you get to tell us what you think.

[0:02:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): And so we're here to listen to that. And there'll be an introduction to that section when we get there. And then when we've concluded that section, we'll come back into the special meeting and determine further direction associated with the bylaw and the new business item that I just added.

[0:02:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): it will adjourn uh in a timely fashion hopefully um anyway nonetheless let's uh turn the uh meeting

[0:03:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): over to uh planner mccargar and uh this is the community information meeting um

[0:03:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): thanks good morning

[0:03:15] Planner (probable): everyone um so this morning i'll be reviewing the main elements of proposed

[0:03:19] Planner (probable): bylaws number numbers one five three and one five four for keats islands so this will just be a

[0:03:26] Planner (probable): short 10-minute presentation and then there'll be an opportunity for questions after trying to share

[0:03:35] Planner (probable): it on Zoom and project it like

[0:03:38] Voice 15: that. We'll

[0:03:53] Planner (probable): share it on Zoom, but we'll share it for everyone today.

[0:03:57] Planner (probable): So the purpose, I wasn't letting me advance the slides when I was sharing it, so.

[0:04:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): Lisa, is it possible that you can pull up that slideshow, slide deck for Marlis and advance it?

[0:04:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): she's having difficulty advancing the slide deck and you've tried the arrow keys yeah

[0:04:29] Voice 2: trustee uh luckham i'm not sure i have access to the slide show i'm not seeing it here

[0:04:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): okay we'll be up on the screen um i think we can probably visit that i'm not sure how

[0:04:44] Trustee Luckham (probable): many people there are in the

[0:04:46] Voice 10: those four

[0:04:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): participants um

[0:04:48] Voice 2: i i did see the uh slide before

[0:04:52] Voice 2: war when um planner mccarver's

[0:04:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): charter screen well at this juncture i'm not seeing members

[0:04:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): of the public on the participants list but um keep watching yeah you know what i'm going to

[0:05:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): just it's going to pan the camera over and uh we can pick up the slide that then okay

[0:05:12] Voice 17: so the

[0:05:13] Planner (probable): purpose of this meeting is to provide you with one final opportunity to review the

[0:05:22] Planner (probable): information related to this project and ask questions. This is the last opportunity for

[0:05:26] Planner (probable): questions about the bylaws before the public hearing and I'll just be providing an overview

[0:05:31] Planner (probable): of the two bylaws that are being considered today by the LTC. So the goal of the meeting is to help

[0:05:39] Planner (probable): you determine whether your interests are affected by the proposed bylaws so that during the public

[0:05:44] Planner (probable): hearing later this morning you are prepared to make a submission to the LTC whether or not you

[0:05:51] Planner (probable): support the changes or not. So here is just a quick summary of the work up to date. This slide

[0:05:58] Planner (probable): kind of summarizes it's been a seven-year process to get to this stage. There have been a number of

[0:06:03] Planner (probable): community meetings, a number of amendments to the bylaws, consultation and referrals out to

[0:06:12] Planner (probable): agencies and First Nations. So just an overview on what the LTC considers when they're making

[0:06:23] Planner (probable): making their decision-making process.

[0:06:25] Planner (probable): So there's many factors that can play in.

[0:06:28] Planner (probable): Community and public is one of the sources of input

[0:06:31] Planner (probable): that decision-makers are asked to consider.

[0:06:33] Planner (probable): They're also looking at the relevant legislation,

[0:06:36] Planner (probable): the island's trust policy statements,

[0:06:39] Planner (probable): legal opinions, First Nations perspectives,

[0:06:41] Planner (probable): public input, and then professionals.

[0:06:48] Planner (probable): So proposed by-law 153, it's the amending by-law to the OCP.

[0:06:52] Planner (probable): It establishes a new shoreline development permit area

[0:06:55] Planner (probable): for the purpose of protecting the natural environment,

[0:06:57] Planner (probable): its ecosystems and biodiversity,

[0:06:59] Planner (probable): and for protecting development from hazardous conditions.

[0:07:03] Planner (probable): It extends upland 15 meters

[0:07:05] Planner (probable): from the natural boundary of the sea,

[0:07:08] Planner (probable): the foreshore area,

[0:07:09] Planner (probable): and then seaward 100 meters from the natural boundary.

[0:07:14] Planner (probable): The summary of some of the changes that you'll see,

[0:07:20] Planner (probable): it designates a nearshore upland and marine areas

[0:07:23] Planner (probable): as a Shoreline Development Permit Area, or DPA.

[0:07:27] Planner (probable): And as I mentioned, it extends 15 meters upland and 100 meters seaward.

[0:07:32] Planner (probable): It aligns with the island's trust policies that strive to protect natural processes, habitats, and species, minimize impact to sensitive coastal environments, and regulate development activity so that the loss of significant marine and coastal habitat or interference with coastal processes is reduced.

[0:07:51] So

[0:07:55] Planner (probable): this is a slide on proposed bylaw number 154, which is an amending bylaw to the land

[0:08:01] Planner (probable): use bylaw, the LUB.

[0:08:03] Planner (probable): So this is where the regulations come.

[0:08:08] Planner (probable): So this regulates structures permitted within the setback, increases setbacks between existing

[0:08:13] Planner (probable): docks and lot lines, reduces max float area, private docks and shared docks, reduces ramp

[0:08:20] Planner (probable): widths and reduces the max area of slope for sub ramps appears in the P1 zone. So the setback,

[0:08:30] Planner (probable): the building setback is being left at seven and a half meters and it's one of the smallest in

[0:08:35] Planner (probable): the trust area. The setback was adopted from previous Sunshine Coast Regional District land

[0:08:40] Planner (probable): use regulations. It was adopted in 1974. We have heard concerns about the seven and a half meter

[0:08:48] Planner (probable): building setback from First Nations as the shoreline is often where archaeological sites are found.

[0:08:54] Planner (probable): Typically a 15 to 30 meter setback is generally recommended for new development to adequately

[0:08:59] Planner (probable): adequately protect these areas but I did want to note that the building setback is being left at

[0:09:05] Planner (probable): seven and a half meters. So in this bylaw there's also the applicability, there's exemptions for the

[0:09:16] Planner (probable): DPA and guidelines for the new short-line DPA. So it will restrict what a landowner can do with

[0:09:24] Planner (probable): that portion of their land that's in the DPA and the restriction depends on the purpose or the type.

[0:09:34] Planner (probable): So there are a few proposed changes that staff are proposing post-public hearing

[0:09:40] Planner (probable): to proposed bylaws 153 and 154. I just wanted to highlight right now there's very minor edits

[0:09:48] Planner (probable): to clarify specific section numbers and one edit for the text for clarity.

[0:09:53] Planner (probable): I just you probably can't really see but I've highlighted the changes on this slide here so

[0:09:59] Planner (probable): they're very minor. First proposed the changes being proposed to bylaw 154 after the public

[0:10:06] Planner (probable): hearing are again some minor edits to correct an error in text and some clarity. There is an edit

[0:10:14] Planner (probable): to the dock sharing regulation there's no changes but there's just some clarity around the particular

[0:10:20] Planner (probable): instruments legal instruments that would be used if someone was to enter into a dock sharing

[0:10:25] Planner (probable): agreement with their neighbor and then there is the deletion of a section 9.3.4b as it's been

[0:10:36] Planner (probable): determined that it's outside the development permit authority that is granted in the local

[0:10:40] Planner (probable): Global Government Act. So the local trust committee's next steps are outlined on this slide.

[0:10:50] Planner (probable): The blue show the completed milestones. The green identifies where we're at currently,

[0:10:56] Planner (probable): which is at the public hearing. And then the gray identifies the potential next steps. So after the

[0:11:01] Planner (probable): public hearing today, the LTC will consider all the feedback and then they have the opportunity

[0:11:08] Planner (probable): to do third reading of the bylaws today or they can postpone that to a future meeting and then it

[0:11:15] Planner (probable): goes to the executive committee for approval and then the OCP is referred to the minister

[0:11:22] Planner (probable): finally the LTC considers final reading so just as I said the LTC this could happen after

[0:11:34] Planner (probable): the public hearing so no new information or public submissions can be considered

[0:11:45] Planner (probable): are after the public hearing so it's really important that all the views are heard today

[0:11:50] Planner (probable): during the public hearing we'll take as much time as we need right now to answer your questions

[0:11:56] Planner (probable): prior to the public hearing hearing commencing so this is not an opportunity to share your views

[0:12:01] Planner (probable): just right now it's for questions and then chair luckham will enter into the public hearing and

[0:12:07] Planner (probable): that will be the opportunity for you to share your views so if you have any specific questions

[0:12:11] Planner (probable): questions, kind of technical questions about the by-law, and we can answer those now.

[0:12:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): Recognized the gentleman there, let us hand up your .

[0:12:24] Voice 17: You say this has been going on for seven years.

[0:12:27] Voice 17: Yeah, could you just please state your name, story, and the rest of it?

[0:12:30] Voice 17: Slade.

[0:12:31] Voice 17: Thank you, George.

[0:12:32] Voice 17: And so usually you do something because you want to solve a problem or because there's

[0:12:40] Voice 17: a complaint.

[0:12:41] Voice 17: specifically what's the problem you're trying to solve with this and or was it a complaint from

[0:12:47] Voice 17: some other body why are you doing it yeah

[0:12:52] Planner (probable): i mean i can provide a little bit of context so i think

[0:12:55] Planner (probable): back in 2017 when the project was initiated there was concerns around proliferation of docks on

[0:13:03] Planner (probable): heaps island as well as a desire to protect the foreshore from development where

[0:13:10] Voice 17: does that concern

[0:13:10] Voice 17: concern come from? Is it from the islanders or

[0:13:12] Voice 5: from bureaucrats?

[0:13:15] Planner (probable): Yeah, I believe it was a concern

[0:13:17] Planner (probable): concerns from from the island. There was a working group that was was formed at that time. And that

[0:13:24] Planner (probable): really helped the working group of chief island president that really helped to guide the project.

[0:13:29] Voice 17: Specifically, what's wrong with dogs? Why would it be a concern?

[0:13:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): So I'll just backstep a little bit and that the concerns that have been expressed have come from

[0:13:44] Trustee Luckham (probable): the public both on the islands and throughout the islands trust area and even throughout the

[0:13:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): province and of course there is also provincial interests in the preservation protection of the

[0:13:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): marine environment and so to your um your additional question about what is the problem

[0:14:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): um the docks in their in their structure um impact the natural environment in terms of fish habitat

[0:14:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): habitat, and shoreline erosion, and other aspects of the use of a dock and the infrastructure

[0:14:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): that's on the foreshore that contribute potentially to the degradation of the marine

[0:14:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): environment.

[0:14:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): And so it's about protecting the environment.

[0:14:26] Voice 17: When

[0:14:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): you look at

[0:14:27] Voice 17: Peet's Island, it's mostly rock, not a lot of erosion when you

[0:14:32] Voice 17: got ground there's very few areas that are sensitive and it just seems like you're taking

[0:14:40] Voice 17: a massive panel to a problem that can be dealt with with the tweets protect the field grass area

[0:14:47] Voice 17: protect the area that are being eroded and in fact

[0:14:52] Voice 11: this doesn't protect erosion

[0:14:53] Voice 11: that's landing there's massive erosion from

[0:14:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): this thermal way so sir you're not addressing erosion

[0:14:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): Sir, I would like you to re-present those remarks when we get to the public hearing

[0:15:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): piece because those are your opinion on the by-law. Right now we're looking at questions

[0:15:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): about the by-law.

[0:15:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): Really, there's no specific key time

[0:15:14] Voice 17: issue for this by-law, is what your answer is. You

[0:15:19] Voice 17: haven't given a specific issue that we're trying to solve.

[0:15:25] Voice 17: Infection of the natural environment.

[0:15:28] Voice 17: specifically that's a very broad brush appropriately it is another

[0:15:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): question in the

[0:15:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): background um

[0:15:41] Voice 17: just i want to go back from what you said about the seven and a half meter and 15 meter

[0:15:48] Voice 17: i'm not sure what you're saying there is it it was going to 15

[0:15:53] Planner (probable): now it's not going 15.

[0:15:55] Planner (probable): i can answer that so initially when these bylaws were being proposed the dpa area was 15 meters

[0:16:03] Planner (probable): uh in inland and the building step back at that time was also 15 meters the ltc heard

[0:16:13] Planner (probable): the community's concerns around that and um so you can answer maybe after me but sure i'll just

[0:16:27] Planner (probable): finish here uh so at that time the building step back was reduced to seven and a half meters the

[0:16:34] Planner (probable): The DPA area stays at 15.

[0:16:39] Voice 15: So the building permit area is seven and a half meters.

[0:16:46] Voice 15: So you stay at seven.

[0:16:48] Planner (probable): Yeah, so you can site a building seven and a half meters from the natural boundary.

[0:16:52] Planner (probable): And

[0:16:53] Voice 15: then what's the DPA?

[0:16:54] Planner (probable): So the DPA area is 15 meters from the natural boundary of the sea.

[0:16:58] Planner (probable): And so that would be any work that is done within that 15 meters would need a DP, a development permit.

[0:17:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): and that's in specific

[0:17:07] Planner (probable): areas yeah yeah and then there's a lot of exemptions that you would look

[0:17:13] Planner (probable): at to see if the development that you're proposing needs a development i i think

[0:17:19] Voice 17: i can clarify that

[0:17:20] Voice 17: you know before these bylaws were proposed there was no

[0:17:23] Voice 14: 15 meter anything it's just a 7.5 meter

[0:17:26] Voice 14: setback from the natural boundary of the sea within which that 7.5 meter area you couldn't

[0:17:33] Voice 14: development that remains the case the introduction the dpa creates a 15 meter area that is regulated

[0:17:43] Voice 14: so the 7.5 part is basically still off limits to any new construction except

[0:17:50] Voice 17: perhaps an application

[0:17:52] Voice 17: for some extreme situation development

[0:17:56] Voice 14: is permitted in the 7.5 to 15 meters area but

[0:18:00] Voice 14: with real limitations you

[0:18:02] Voice 17: have to apply for development permit in order to do anything

[0:18:06] Voice 17: as you've been 7.5 and 15 meters unless there's an exemption and so that's the structure of it which

[0:18:14] Voice 17: is

[0:18:15] Voice 14: shorthand is everything's prohibited from 7.5 to the natural gravity of the sea

[0:18:21] Voice 14: development

[0:18:21] Voice 17: permits required from 7.5 to 15 and but it's not required if the work that you plan

[0:18:29] Voice 17: to do falls within one of these inches is that fair enough yeah

[0:18:35] Voice 8: sure

[0:18:37] Voice 6: oh melanie keats landing

[0:18:41] Voice 6: technical question that we haven't been able to resolve in our own household

[0:18:45] Voice 6: when you're measuring 7.5 and 15 meters how are you measuring that is it along the surface of the

[0:18:53] Voice 6: land is it horizontal from the tide line because it's significant so

[0:19:00] Planner (probable): it would be from the high

[0:19:01] Planner (probable): water mark the natural boundary yes does

[0:19:04] Voice 15: it go uphill or does it go straight on

[0:19:07] Voice 6: is it a horizontal measurement from the high tide line or does it follow the contours of the land

[0:19:15] Voice 6: with freedom yeah

[0:19:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): so as the tide comes in and covers lower regions of rock

[0:19:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): the plane the surface of the water is where the high water market that's where you

[0:19:27] Voice 6: start from yeah

[0:19:28] Voice 4: Well, where

[0:19:29] Voice 6: does the 15 meters end? Is it a horizontal measurement?

[0:19:33] Voice 6: Oh, I see. Yes.

[0:19:34] Voice 6: Or does it follow the contour of the land?

[0:19:36] Voice 6: Horizontal measurement. Sorry, misunderstood the question.

[0:19:38] Voice 6: You need to understand that, that a lot of the land we're talking about is quite steep.

[0:19:44] Voice 6: And if you take that horizontal, you're going to shorten the space that we have to build anything, as opposed to measuring along the contour of the land.

[0:19:56] Voice 6: Yeah. It's a significant difference because the lots that we have around Blitz Landing

[0:20:04] Voice 6: are postage stamp lots. And if you change that measurement and we've got to comply with the

[0:20:13] Voice 6: rest of the contours of the land in terms of setbacks and property lines, you're taking away

[0:20:19] Voice 6: two or three meters that could be construction area or development area. So it needs to be

[0:20:27] Voice 6: clarified exactly how you do that sure you're

[0:20:34] Voice 4: correct it goes horizontally so um what seems

[0:20:40] Voice 4: to be part of the um uh discussion here is it's not that you can't build in that area it's just

[0:20:50] Voice 4: you require a permit to build in that area that is the difference it's

[0:20:57] Voice 10: still setting a plan further

[0:20:59] Voice 10: adult than if it was level land no it's and

[0:21:06] Voice 6: if it wasn't a diagram of a right angle triangle

[0:21:10] Voice 10: and you're sending it back further than you can i

[0:21:14] Voice 4: think it's further back if you measured from

[0:21:18] Voice 4: going along the contour of the land yes but not if you do it towards the diagram

[0:21:25] Voice 6: diagram. So

[0:21:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): maybe just to be helpful, let's just think of a cliff, right? A bluff where the land

[0:21:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): comes to the cliff and then it drops off either in slope or precipitously. The high water mark

[0:21:44] Trustee Luckham (probable): is where the water abuts the land. So that would be at the base of the cliff. And if that cliff

[0:21:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): was vertical then the 15 meters would start from there if the cliff was at an angle it would still

[0:21:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): start with a vertical line from where the water butts the cliff and then come up so indeed there

[0:22:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): might be several feet or many more meters of airspace that is being included in the setback

[0:22:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): it doesn't start at the edge of the bluff it starts at the bottom of the bluff wherever that

[0:22:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): location is does that

[0:22:21] Voice 6: help look at a right angle triangle and find out that it does make a

[0:22:26] Voice 6: difference by a noticeable amount okay

[0:22:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): although i i don't want to argue necessarily but i think that

[0:22:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): the impact would be less because you don't have that land doesn't exist that's in that airspace

[0:22:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): where the right angle triangle airspace has nothing

[0:22:44] Voice 6: to do with you're just measuring

[0:22:48] Voice 6: Okay, well,

[0:22:48] Voice 14: your question, Paul, is how is this measurement going to be determined?

[0:22:55] Voice 14: Because you've heard from the staff, you've heard from the chair, the force on would be a straight line from a high water mark, irrespective of the contour.

[0:23:06] Voice 14: So you're right.

[0:23:07] Voice 14: I mean, depending on the nature of the property, that's going to have an effect on where

[0:23:12] Voice 17: you can conveniently build on your property.

[0:23:16] Voice 4: Without a permit.

[0:23:17] Voice 17: Without a permit.

[0:23:18] Voice 17: How do you determine that?

[0:23:19] Voice 17: How does the ordinary person want to figure out 15 meters horizontally?

[0:23:25] Voice 17: You're talking about going right into the L-side,

[0:23:30] Voice 17: for example, in many cases.

[0:23:34] Voice 17: You

[0:23:35] Planner (probable): would need a site survey.

[0:23:36] Planner (probable): Okay.

[0:23:37] Voice 17: And do those cost money by blue?

[0:23:40] Planner (probable): Yes, they do.

[0:23:42] Voice 8: Just to

[0:23:46] Voice 7: the same question,

[0:23:50] Voice 7: It is interesting that when a surveyor surveys the property, they survey to tell you that

[0:23:58] Voice 17: you have 100 feet back from the water along the land.

[0:24:03] Voice 17: They do not survey at right angles to a vertical of

[0:24:08] Voice 15: the height of the river.

[0:24:10] Voice 10: They can't.

[0:24:11] Voice 10: They don't have that.

[0:24:12] Voice 10: Well,

[0:24:12] Voice 15: I know they can't, but if you were buying a property, that isn't what they would do.

[0:24:20] Voice 10: Okay. Thank you for that advice. Any further questions in the back row there?

[0:24:25] Voice 15: Hi. I want to go back to the whole issue of, yes, we can build between 7.5 and 15 meters,

[0:24:33] Voice 15: but we need a permit for that. My question is, what are all the costs associated with that,

[0:24:39] Voice 15: including a permanent survey and any environmental assessment to do that?

[0:24:45] Voice 15: And the second part of my question is, how does Islands Trust decide whether to grant a permit?

[0:24:53] Voice 15: What are the reasons that are going to be taken into consideration?

[0:24:59] Planner (probable): So the costs associated, there's the development permit fee, which is available on the website.

[0:25:07] Planner (probable): I can find it for you if you want a specific number.

[0:25:10] Planner (probable): And then there would be any, like you said, assessments that are deemed necessary.

[0:25:14] Planner (probable): it's all in the bylaws and you would look at the guidelines if the application meets the guidelines

[0:25:22] Planner (probable): then the permit is issued it's not a discretionary approval it's thousands and thousands of dollars

[0:25:32] Planner (probable): that hasn't been our experience it's quite a common tool that's used across the local trust

[0:25:37] Planner (probable): area and development permits are typically issued three to six months can

[0:25:43] Voice 15: you tell me specifically

[0:25:44] Voice 15: like what sections the guidelines are and if they would like exact

[0:25:51] Voice 15: so if

[0:25:57] Planner (probable): you're looking at bylaw 154 the guidelines are just below the exceptions so they start at

[0:26:06] Planner (probable): section 0.3 numbering

[0:26:12] Voice 17: may be different than the current website right this is the amendment

[0:26:19] Voice 8: uh no it should say yeah

[0:26:25] Voice 13: just to be clear the version

[0:26:28] Voice 17: of the proposed bylaws that's on the

[0:26:30] Voice 17: website my understanding is

[0:26:33] Voice 14: it has all the changes that the west committee has agreed to

[0:26:37] Voice 14: up to this meeting but it doesn't include the amendments that you're proposing in this agenda

[0:26:42] Voice 14: Yeah. So it's up to date.

[0:26:44] Planner (probable): Yeah. And the fee for a development permit is $1,040.

[0:26:56] Planner (probable): And

[0:26:56] Voice 17: Marlis, can you, you know, can you explain typically when environmental assessments are required or other qualified professional opinions are required, what the price range is?

[0:27:13] Voice 17: is I mean

[0:27:14] Voice 14: it's not something that the trust controls but people have made applications

[0:27:19] Voice 14: time again so I'm wondering if the planners

[0:27:21] Voice 17: have some experience about roughly what

[0:27:22] Voice 17: what some estimate of what those costs might be we would just see the report we don't see

[0:27:28] Voice 17: all right

[0:27:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): thanks um I'd just like to add something because there was a question there about how it is

[0:27:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): that we decide to issue the permit um those reports are fundamental to helping us decide to

[0:27:43] Trustee Luckham (probable): that issued the permit.

[0:27:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): So if the professional environmentalist says

[0:27:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): there are no impact or no concerns,

[0:27:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): there's no potential natural degradation

[0:27:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): that is gonna impact something else.

[0:27:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): I think kind of call it a clean report.

[0:27:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): If there's a clean report,

[0:27:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): then that makes it easier for us to make that decision.

[0:28:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): We rely upon that professional advice.

[0:28:03] Voice 15: So I just wanna give like a specific example,

[0:28:06] Voice 15: just to make sure I understand what you're saying.

[0:28:09] Voice 15: I have an area next to my cabin

[0:28:12] Voice 15: that's between 7.5 meters and 15 meters consisting of fill held up by rock walls,

[0:28:20] Voice 15: gravel sort of area for storage, and woodshed on concrete pilings.

[0:28:29] Voice 15: It sounds like I need to hire an environmental professional to come in and tell me that there

[0:28:35] Voice 15: There are no species at risk in this area and provide you with a report and do a survey,

[0:28:44] Voice 15: which I know costs $3,000 or $4,000 because I've just done one, to prove that it's where it is

[0:28:52] Voice 15: and pay another $1,000 for a permit application in order to extend the bedroom.

[0:29:02] Voice 15: Is that understanding correct?

[0:29:03] Voice 15: correct?

[0:29:04] Planner (probable): So you wouldn't necessarily, yes, you would need a development permit to extend a

[0:29:10] Planner (probable): bedroom to do a renovation on your home. But we would look at the guidelines and then we would

[0:29:17] Planner (probable): determine what is required based on that. So I don't know that a, you know, that that area,

[0:29:26] Planner (probable): if your area is identified as an area of a critical species at risk, but if it's not,

[0:29:32] Planner (probable): then it likely wouldn't require a

[0:29:35] Voice 15: report.

[0:29:37] Voice 15: I mean, has somebody identified all the areas and keep that?

[0:29:41] Planner (probable): Yeah, there's mapping available.

[0:29:43] Planner (probable): One

[0:29:44] Voice 15: of the maps there.

[0:29:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): Perhaps I'll ask, in a disturbed land area,

[0:29:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): is that one of the exceptions that Trustee Bernardo has asked to have included?

[0:30:04] Voice 14: Yes, it is what I've asked for, and I haven't thought. Okay, that's what I want to know.

[0:30:11] Voice 14: Marvis, can you clarify, and this is supplemental to the question that was just asked, is a

[0:30:17] Voice 14: survey required to get that measurement from the natural boundary of the sea to find out

[0:30:25] Voice 14: what the 15-meter line is? Is that required in respect of every development permit application?

[0:30:31] Voice 14: or are there circumstances where, I don't know,

[0:30:34] Voice 14: the staff would be satisfied

[0:30:35] Voice 14: with something less than a survey?

[0:30:37] Voice 14: We

[0:30:37] Planner (probable): would come to the LTC and ask if the LTC

[0:30:40] Planner (probable): would be satisfied in absence of a DAI by-law,

[0:30:44] Planner (probable): which this LTC does not have one.

[0:30:47] Planner (probable): Could you explain for people who are going to DA?

[0:30:49] Planner (probable): So in absence of a development approval information by-law,

[0:30:58] Planner (probable): which stipulates these types of requirements,

[0:31:00] Planner (probable): we would come to the, the planner would come to the LTC and ask if a survey was required on this particular property or not.

[0:31:15] Voice 17: We

[0:31:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): often get hand-drawn sketches, and if it's obvious that there's no impact in the natural environment,

[0:31:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): it's not a big deal for the ltc to decide to go ahead there back situations where they think

[0:31:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): well now that we're a little concerned about the proximity of xyz and they may say it's in your

[0:31:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): best it can't we can't order you to do it but we can say it's in your best interest to provide us

[0:31:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): a survey um i i'm gonna i did you speak once already no no okay so i'm gonna go back to you

[0:31:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): and then i'm gonna go to the process uh

[0:31:54] Voice 15: on your map um you have a

[0:31:57] Voice 17: couple areas where it's like

[0:31:59] Voice 17: like all the different park areas where it would apply, but also on your map, there is quite a few parks in flooding the Eastport area that haven't been addressed.

[0:32:10] Voice 17: And then as well as the Cotton Point subdivision, this whole 18-lot

[0:32:15] Voice 4: subdivision there has quite a wide crown land strip.

[0:32:20] Voice 4: So anybody who wants to do any development already in this

[0:32:23] Voice 17: area actually has to apply to that land.

[0:32:26] Voice 17: them to use that land um so is that going to be now an extra requirement for them if

[0:32:33] Voice 17: it happens

[0:32:34] Voice 17: to be within like now do they have to not only

[0:32:38] Voice 15: apply to the crown but

[0:32:39] Voice 17: now they have to also

[0:32:40] Voice 17: apply for this as well if

[0:32:42] Planner (probable): it's within the development permit area yeah they would need to

[0:32:44] Planner (probable): and then my other question is in regards

[0:32:48] Voice 15: to all the dog sharing language in here

[0:32:51] Voice 15: is that only on brand new

[0:32:53] Voice 15: future permanent

[0:32:55] Voice 15: docs

[0:32:55] Planner (probable): or is that going to go back

[0:32:57] Planner (probable): to some of the

[0:32:59] Planner (probable): docs that are already in place

[0:33:01] Planner (probable): so none of these regulations

[0:33:03] Planner (probable): would be retroactively

[0:33:05] Planner (probable): applied it would be going forward

[0:33:07] Planner (probable): but only if somebody wanted to say

[0:33:09] Voice 15: change it

[0:33:10] Voice 17: change like some language or something

[0:33:13] Voice 17: in that doc or they wanted to ban it

[0:33:15] Voice 17: or something or alter it then

[0:33:16] Voice 17: it would apply

[0:33:17] Voice 17: Yeah. And then the other question I have is in regards to orange voice, it kind of says,

[0:33:25] Voice 17: talks about how you're supposed

[0:33:26] Voice 15: to ask for permission. And yet, then it says that it

[0:33:31] Voice 15: doesn't, it's not required in an MC zone. Currently, I would say, probably 70

[0:33:38] Voice 4: % of moorings

[0:33:39] Voice 4: right now are in the MC zone. So does that mean that we don't need to

[0:33:44] Planner (probable): ask to

[0:33:44] Voice 2: have a mooring?

[0:33:45] Voice 2: So

[0:33:45] Planner (probable): now we just have to ask for every time we want to put a mooring, we have to ask.

[0:33:49] Planner (probable): So it's included as an exemption. So the installation of a mooring buoy is exempt.

[0:33:54] Planner (probable): Is it exempt? Yeah. Okay. So why is the language in there that they want people to stab a mooring rather than apply for a dog? Is that what it's referenced to?

[0:34:04] Planner (probable): Yeah, I think it's, and it's just referencing that mooring buoys are, yes, more desirable.

[0:34:08] Planner (probable): Okay. And then we're

[0:34:12] Voice 17: pretty much maxed out on development so far on Keats. Like there's not

[0:34:17] Voice 17: going to be very much more because the land has been used, but there are some empty lots right

[0:34:23] Voice 17: now and they're actually throughout the island or even in Keats Landing waterfront ones. So for

[0:34:31] Voice 17: those people though with the setback

[0:34:34] Voice 4: now other people beside those lots already built so now are

[0:34:39] Voice 4: they going to be required to build back so that they really have no view or is there going to be

[0:34:44] Voice 4: a little

[0:34:45] Voice 15: bit of a variance because on one of the other islands i believe on bowen they have a um

[0:34:50] Voice 15: they've made a wording in their thing when somebody applies for that that they take the

[0:34:57] Voice 15: average things so all the houses in this area are all set back within a certain amount and there's

[0:35:04] Voice 15: this one empty lot and somebody wants to build a house they

[0:35:07] Planner (probable): also are allowed to open that area

[0:35:09] Planner (probable): otherwise that's the value yeah so not in this case no they would be subject to the setbacks

[0:35:15] Planner (probable): as outlined in here and if they wanted to apply for a variance that's an option that's available

[0:35:20] Planner (probable): to anyone right yeah they can vary setbacks it can vary right

[0:35:26] Voice 2: yeah yeah so no

[0:35:28] Voice 17: language will be

[0:35:29] Voice 17: provided to allow for that because that kind of impedes like that really does like if i get put

[0:35:34] Voice 17: through that affects some people's property that they've owned for there's there's a couple of

[0:35:40] Voice 17: lots right now that somebody's on the property like since day one and so now if they

[0:35:46] Voice 15: go to sell

[0:35:46] Voice 15: it and somebody else now has

[0:35:48] Planner (probable): to go they buy it and then they go and try to do something to it

[0:35:51] Planner (probable): and now they can't do what everybody else is not well they can apply for a variance

[0:35:57] Planner (probable): they can make their case and their rationale and the ltc would consider it yeah okay

[0:36:02] Planner (probable): just

[0:36:03] Voice 4: okay do

[0:36:04] Planner (probable): you want to respond to that question i

[0:36:05] Voice 4: just want to give you a real world example of how it works

[0:36:10] Voice 4: on gambier there is a subject water access only subdivision on gambier west bay landing and um

[0:36:17] Voice 4: it's got the 15 meter setback is the standard uh there is a natural bench at about seven meters

[0:36:25] Voice 4: in that bay so um when people go to build they apply for variance to be able to build on that

[0:36:35] Voice 4: bench because otherwise the land goes straight up behind them they've got 10 acres they've got lots

[0:36:42] Voice 4: of room but it's this topography of the land so they come for variance it's fairly straightforward

[0:36:49] Voice 4: and so far everyone who's asked has received a variance based on that placement but it's based

[0:36:57] Voice 4: on topography and necessity for that area i'm

[0:37:04] Trustee Luckham (probable): going to go to the front row here i see a gentleman

[0:37:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): in here and another gentleman in the back

[0:37:07] Voice 2: i just want to say thank you trish my questions have been

[0:37:10] Voice 2: answered okay

[0:37:11] Voice 5: um bob quarterman keats island president i have a this goes back to your uh

[0:37:19] Voice 5: comment just want to get clarity for grandfathering so i have a kilometer long

[0:37:23] Voice 5: cotton point and one dock which is currently compliant in vindicate so that size of that dock

[0:37:30] Voice 5: won't come under this regulation it's only a new one but my foreshore lease I think is every 10

[0:37:36] Voice 5: years so when I renew that will that then grandfather everything as well size yeah I

[0:37:44] Planner (probable): believe that if you're not but

[0:37:46] Voice 5: specifically it would because that would be a concern I don't

[0:37:49] Voice 5: want to you know 10 years now I have to get a smaller if you're

[0:37:52] Voice 5: not doing any nope nothing at

[0:37:54] Voice 5: know, so I maintain it so I can take take that very well.

[0:38:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): In the back row, and then we'll go over to the right hand side

[0:38:03] Voice 17: here.

[0:38:04] Voice 17: Well, Bentley president keeps landing to two things to comment.

[0:38:10] Voice 17: First one, you make a variant sound like very simple. It's

[0:38:14] Voice 17: not it can be years long. So I think you have to, you know, a

[0:38:19] Voice 17: community solution like that should be included in the

[0:38:22] Voice 17: The second question is, how do these meetings, dates, and times get the terms?

[0:38:29] Voice 17: Geet's is naturally, apparently, transient in the summertime at Rupert Resnick's, many

[0:38:36] Voice 17: of which come from the city or other parts of the province.

[0:38:39] Voice 17: Being here on a Wednesday at 10 a.m. is a challenge for a lot of people.

[0:38:42] I don't think you're getting adequate

[0:38:45] Voice 17: public representation like we did at that meeting

[0:38:48] Voice 17: in North Inc.

[0:38:49] Voice 17: to liberate let's know like kind of stifling

[0:38:53] Voice 13: input from residents so yeah that's my thought

[0:39:00] Voice 13: yeah

[0:39:00] Voice 17: the ltc determines you want to make any remarks well we're presented with dates that

[0:39:06] Voice 17: are available for staff to select from

[0:39:08] Planner (probable): one of those dates that's it and the ltc is allowed

[0:39:12] Planner (probable): to have input in terms of location and timing and

[0:39:17] Voice 14: you know if we frankly if i talk it through

[0:39:20] Voice 14: a little bit more carefully i probably would i should have objected to the idea of having a

[0:39:23] Voice 14: summer meeting sort of

[0:39:24] Voice 17: kicked it over maybe to the ball a meeting course maybe it would have

[0:39:28] Voice 17: made more sense uh the

[0:39:33] Voice 16: only thing i can say uh in respect of that is that there's a fair amount

[0:39:38] Voice 16: of pressure to move this thing

[0:39:39] Voice 14: along so

[0:39:41] Voice 16: that's why we're having today and

[0:39:46] Voice 4: also in addition um

[0:39:48] Voice 4: So it is a challenge to balance recognizing that there are more KITS people around in the summer.

[0:39:56] Voice 4: So often when we do have in-person meetings for KITS issues, we do try and have them on the island.

[0:40:04] Voice 4: And we did try, but it's also because it's summer.

[0:40:07] Voice 4: That's a high season for your public areas, which are the camps.

[0:40:10] Voice 4: So there wasn't anything available on camps for this particular time period.

[0:40:16] Voice 4: yes it's it's a weekday during the day we hope to be able to provide some access

[0:40:23] Voice 4: because it wasn't the day there was transit in here it's not ideal but anytime you make

[0:40:31] Voice 4: in-person meetings which are important we're always doing trade-offs especially in the

[0:40:37] Voice 4: area because the recreational property owners are the majority we want to accommodate that as much

[0:40:45] Voice 4: over

[0:40:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): to here and i'll come to the back of the room and i'll come back to the front again

[0:40:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): hi uh

[0:40:53] Voice 4: joe peterson um the damper island local trust throughout this process has adopted the

[0:41:00] Voice 4: green shores principles and back in 2013 i asked the um damper island local threats for examples

[0:41:08] Voice 4: of what they wanted and they had a workshop in roberts

[0:41:13] Voice 2: creek the two examples that were shown

[0:41:15] Voice 2: were well below the natural boundary, one being at Chester Creek, and it was about

[0:41:20] Voice 4: 30 feet in the

[0:41:21] Voice 4: Crown Perth Shore.

[0:41:23] Voice 15: The other one was also in the Crown Perth Shore. And then throughout this

[0:41:27] Voice 15: process, you have provided the Green Shores principle examples, again, in the Crown Perth

[0:41:34] Voice 15: Shore.

[0:41:35] Voice 17: Mostly these principles were developed for lakes, not the coastal shores that we have,

[0:41:45] Voice 17: and the energy of the seas

[0:41:49] Voice 4: during high tides and pain tides

[0:41:54] Voice 4: that are the whole reason we're trying to protect our land

[0:41:57] Voice 4: and not from the slow and imperceptible.

[0:41:59] Voice 4: We want to protect our land from those particular high tides.

[0:42:05] Voice 4: So my question to you is the bylaws say one thing

[0:42:09] Voice 4: and you provide us solutions below the natural boundary.

[0:42:13] Voice 4: And why?

[0:42:14] Voice 4: we've asked this question before so

[0:42:17] Planner (probable): and not any

[0:42:18] Planner (probable): answers i'm not i wasn't around in 2013 and so i'm

[0:42:23] Planner (probable): not aware of the examples that were provided but there's nothing specifically relating to green

[0:42:28] Planner (probable): shores in the bottom but throughout this process you've had workshops saying

[0:42:33] Voice 4: show us what you want

[0:42:34] Voice 4: so if you want something that's below the vegetation line that is in the crown for sure

[0:42:42] Voice 17: shore and the majority of what you have been proposing is in the ground core shore but you

[0:42:47] Voice 17: buy less safe i'll divide so my question is what is it because if you go

[0:42:53] Voice 4: above the natural boundary

[0:42:55] Voice 4: you're looking for probably a vertical wall that's going to deflect and do the opposite of

[0:43:02] Voice 4: what you want and that would be to deflect the waves what you're watching is a low slope two to

[0:43:08] Voice 4: one and that will probably be in the ground core shore and all the principles you have provided

[0:43:16] Voice 4: is below a vegetation one look at all your pictures you show the before and after the

[0:43:22] Voice 4: majority are below the natural boundary so that's confusing because they brought up before and

[0:43:29] Voice 14: so it seems like everybody's confused about it but i'm not what is i'm not clear i'm not clear

[0:43:34] Voice 14: on what the question is here are you saying that there should be an exemption

[0:43:39] Voice 15: No, I'm saying you have bylaws that say you

[0:43:43] Voice 4: have to be above the national boundary, but your solutions are below the national boundary.

[0:43:47] Voice 17: So that's my question, is why are you doing that when you're saying that you have to be above the national boundary?

[0:43:59] Voice 4: I can only respond being the only person here that was there for the Green Shores workshops, although actually that's not true.

[0:44:07] Voice 4: but the workshop shop was specifically just for green shorts we may

[0:44:14] Voice 4: mention it here

[0:44:15] Voice 4: but it's not specific to the bylaws themselves so what we're speaking to today

[0:44:20] Voice 4: is these particular bylaws you can possibly implement green shores techniques above the

[0:44:30] Voice 4: foreshore but

[0:44:31] Voice 15: it isn't

[0:44:32] Voice 4: necessarily related to what we're talking like what we did in 2013

[0:44:36] Voice 4: was a very specific example.

[0:44:38] Voice 4: It's not the only way to do it,

[0:44:41] Voice 4: but I don't think it's connected

[0:44:43] Voice 4: to what we're trying to talk about here.

[0:44:45] Voice 17: I'm

[0:44:45] Voice 4: not, is there another question?

[0:44:46] Voice 17: I think we can conclude with that

[0:44:47] Voice 17: because you're saying that

[0:44:48] Voice 17: anybody who wants to protect their door lock

[0:44:51] Voice 17: has to be above the natural boundary.

[0:44:53] Voice 17: I

[0:44:54] Voice 14: think I'm going to be able to clarify something.

[0:44:56] Voice 14: I don't think that's quite right.

[0:44:58] Voice 14: The way the bylaws or draft bylaw is constructed,

[0:45:02] Voice 14: It does encourage software measures, the Green Shores type of measure.

[0:45:08] Voice 14: And you're quite right.

[0:45:09] Voice 14: All of those would have to take place below the natural boundary to see the effect.

[0:45:14] Voice 14: The jurisdiction of what we're trying to do here is it's 15 meters above, but also 100

[0:45:22] Voice 14: meters out towards the water.

[0:45:25] Voice 14: The local trust committee and the Islands Trust has got jurisdiction over that part

[0:45:30] Voice 14: of the seawall.

[0:45:31] Voice 14: and so what's complicated right now is that if you want to do a green choice you have to apply

[0:45:38] Voice 14: for a development permit and because you're in

[0:45:42] Voice 15: a rain concentration right

[0:45:43] Voice 14: but you have to apply

[0:45:45] Voice 14: for a permit that has certain requirements with it including i recall correctly uh a report by

[0:45:51] Voice 14: qualified professional to make sure it's designed properly so it is possible to do the green choice

[0:45:56] Voice 14: work below the natural boundary to see you just have to get the permits have i got that right

[0:46:01] Voice 14: But

[0:46:01] Voice 17: I haven't seen any solution above, which is what you're, you

[0:46:05] Voice 10: know, that's the problem.

[0:46:07] Voice 10: I'll just leave it showing below, which isn't found to the most above, because for, you know, that's what the model is.

[0:46:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): I might just add to the screen choice conversation, because I have been actually involved in it since its introduction quite some time ago.

[0:46:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): I don't know how long, but I just want to correct a really important factor.

[0:46:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): is that it didn't start in lakes or might have been lake implications associated with it,

[0:46:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): but it started in Washington state and it started

[0:46:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): in Puget Sound and it was about shoreline armoring

[0:46:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): and the removal of shoreline armoring, which is what they call it, and using softer techniques

[0:46:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): to protect the marine shoreline. And there are other examples where in fact the work,

[0:47:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): the work the remediation work and in fact you can even go uh colic and parksville there's lots of

[0:47:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): other places on on the vancouver island as well as in the gulf islands where that work um although

[0:47:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): it's protecting the below uh the high water mark area because that's the eel grass and the fish

[0:47:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): habitat and all of that sort of thing the objective is to protect that area um the construction often

[0:47:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): and is above the high water mark and in fact you get well there's a case there's lots of cases and

[0:47:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): you can look and we do have a document that does describe that technique of anchoring logs and

[0:47:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): building constructions and stuff and the objective is actually to protect the natural integrity of

[0:47:43] Trustee Luckham (probable): the shoreline ecosystem so that it protects itself and so the encouragement is to move your buildings

[0:47:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): and your construction further back which also gives a greater life expectancy to the building

[0:47:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): so that it's not being impacted by the environment but there's lots of information i'd be happy to

[0:47:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): talk about it offline but um just wanted to make sure that there are other examples there's an

[0:48:04] Trustee Luckham (probable): example on my island where the rock work goes all the way up to the house in fact there's

[0:48:10] Voice 10: a new one

[0:48:10] Voice 10: on keats that's

[0:48:11] Voice 10: 20

[0:48:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): to 30 feet well that's interesting and obviously an engineer figured

[0:48:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): up that's what needed to happen that's good um i kind of lost track in the back of the room

[0:48:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): and then uh i'll come back to you and then the gentleman in the middle there

[0:48:29] Trustee Luckham (probable): all right question it's uh more common but

[0:48:33] Voice 17: this gentleman's simple access to the public comment

[0:48:36] Voice 17: um i can see the timing keep this time for today um this

[0:48:43] Voice 13: is i'm available

[0:48:44] Voice 13: available. When I went online this morning, there was no way for me to participate online.

[0:48:51] Voice 13: So you know, if it's going to be here, it would have been beneficial for more people

[0:48:56] Voice 13: to participate and comment on the online component.

[0:49:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): Well there is an online observation component. You can't speak, but the idea there is written

[0:49:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): submissions is traditionally the mechanism used for public hearing. So I appreciate your

[0:49:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): comment and we would love to fix that in the front row here and then gentlemen in the middle and then

[0:49:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): i'll come over to you thank

[0:49:21] Voice 2: you uh jen hank i just wanted to address this trustee bernardo you

[0:49:25] Voice 2: mentioned that there was a lot of pressure to get this done and i just wanted you to i was curious

[0:49:34] Voice 2: what that meant why is there so much pressure he said this and so i'm curious well subjective

[0:49:41] Voice 14: objective thing and maybe it's all in my head but the uh as we've worked through the various

[0:49:47] Voice 14: elements of this bylaw you know i struggled to sort of

[0:49:50] Voice 17: introduce amendments the

[0:49:54] Voice 14: reports keep

[0:49:55] Voice 14: coming back that okay you've done this let's have the public hearing you know the very first meeting

[0:50:02] Voice 14: i attended almost two years ago the request was we ought to be having a public hearing that's

[0:50:08] Voice 14: been a consistent theme which is let's move it along it keeps coming up on the agenda

[0:50:14] Voice 14: I've delayed things quite often because I felt we needed the time to work through things

[0:50:18] Voice 14: but after sometime in April we reached the point where you know as I explained in the email I said

[0:50:25] Voice 14: the constituents that I think my own personal view is very close with bylaw

[0:50:35] Voice 14: And on that basis, I was prepared to close favor of a second meeting, and that triggers having the public hearing.

[0:50:43] Voice 14: And once that was triggered, staff started coming out with dates

[0:50:46] Voice 17: for it, because that's the next thing on the agenda.

[0:50:49] Voice 17: So that's my explanation for it.

[0:50:52] Voice 17: So is there a pressure then to run the audit, do this right after the meeting, or could that be delayed?

[0:51:00] Voice 17: needs well

[0:51:01] Voice 14: the agenda here proposes staff is recommending that we do that that we

[0:51:05] Voice 14: in fact after the public hearing staff's recommending that we simply vote improve

[0:51:09] Voice 14: the bylaws and move on uh when we get to that part of the meeting i'll be expressing a different view

[0:51:15] about that because frankly i

[0:51:18] Voice 17: think the local trust committee needs time to digest what we hear at

[0:51:22] Voice 17: the public hearing statement uh

[0:51:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): i think

[0:51:27] Voice 10: i went to the gentleman in the middle

[0:51:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): and then these

[0:51:29] Trustee Luckham (probable): two gentlemen on this side and i'll go to the well first on the outside before yes mr mr slate mr

[0:51:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): slate thank you another

[0:51:37] Voice 17: question uh i heard someone say a statement that you have as islands

[0:51:43] Voice 17: trust have jurisdiction 100 feet into the foreshore area and into the water what legislation

[0:51:51] Voice 17: this would be to your legislative expert gives you that jurisdiction because based on the canadian

[0:51:58] Voice 17: and constitution the jurisdiction for navigation which is in the water which includes buoys docks

[0:52:05] Voice 17: ramps and piers is solely federal so what legislation i guess it would have to be

[0:52:12] Voice 17: federal that gives islands trust authority that they

[0:52:16] Voice 14: don't have within the constitution i can

[0:52:18] Voice 14: answer that which is that

[0:52:19] Voice 13: george

[0:52:20] Voice 14: your premise is incorrect that the british columbia is in a

[0:52:24] Voice 14: peculiar situation compared to other problems. When BC entered into confederation, the deal was,

[0:52:32] Voice 14: it was the whole crown colony of British Columbia, as it was at that time,

[0:52:37] Voice 14: came into the country as a province. The crown colony of British Columbia at that time had

[0:52:41] Voice 14: jurisdiction over the sea bottom, within the waters that are landward from Vancouver Island

[0:52:49] Voice 14: onwards. So if we want to call those the kind of the inland ocean waters, that kind of thing.

[0:52:55] Voice 14: So the province has jurisdiction over all the sea bottom in Howe Sound and the Gulf Islands and that kind of area.

[0:53:04] Voice 14: And the Land Act and other local government acts, the various statutes that give local governments jurisdiction over land planning, apply to the Islands Trust.

[0:53:14] And that land underneath the ocean, in the foreshore, 100 meters, in fact, we go to Bylaw and Keats,

[0:53:21] Voice 14: that extends a kilometer out in terms of managing,

[0:53:26] Voice 17: you know, construction of things that would be out in that part of the water.

[0:53:32] Voice 14: And so that's where the jurisdiction comes from.

[0:53:35] Voice 14: The province's jurisdiction over the sea bottom, and that is then

[0:53:38] Voice 17: basically delegated down to local government.

[0:53:41] Voice 17: You've said that to me before, and I would politely submit to you that you're absolutely misinterpreting the facts.

[0:53:49] Voice 17: The federal government controls the water.

[0:53:52] Voice 17: The province controls the seabed.

[0:53:54] Voice 17: So your statement about the seabed is correct.

[0:53:57] Voice 17: But the water is navigation.

[0:54:00] Voice 17: That is docks, ramps, buoys, and piers.

[0:54:05] Voice 17: Anything to do with navigation is strictly federal.

[0:54:07] Voice 17: And I would submit that you are absolutely outside your jurisdiction, and this bylaw is ultra-virus and not enforceable in Canada.

[0:54:19] Voice 17: And before you waste any more time and money, I suggest you get a proper legal opinion from a marine lawyer who knows what he's talking about, not your bureaucratic environmentalists.

[0:54:37] Voice 14: water issues and one of those actually has one of those regulations has had a knock-on effect that

[0:54:44] Voice 14: we've had to account for in the bylaw and that is the 10 meter limitation in terms of there being a

[0:54:52] Voice 14: minimum distance of 10 meters between docks we have that requirement the bylaw is a new one but

[0:54:59] Voice 14: it's also it's not original with us it's actually carrying forward the federal regulation so you're

[0:55:05] Voice 14: You're right that the navigable waters regulations are applicable, but with respect, that's a separate issue from the construction of the dock city.

[0:55:16] Voice 14: Excuse

[0:55:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): me, sir. I don't want to continue to debate this because I can help you or at least advise you that we do have legal opinion and decisions have been, bylaws zoning on the surface of the water has been upheld in the courts on numerous occasions.

[0:55:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): It actually has

[0:55:36] Voice 17: been turned over by the Supreme Court of Canada.

[0:55:39] Voice 17: Double check your data.

[0:55:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): Not in all cases.

[0:55:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): So I've got a question, two questions here, one here, one here, and we'll go to the gentleman

[0:55:52] Trustee Luckham (probable): in the back because he hasn't spoken first and I'll come back to you and we'll keep moving

[0:55:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): around.

[0:55:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): Keeping in mind, we do need to move into public hearing and there'll be an opportunity for

[0:56:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): your comments, what you think about the bylaw in that section of the agenda.

[0:56:05] Voice 17: Thank you.

[0:56:06] Voice 13: my

[0:56:07] Voice 17: name is Glenn Donaldson

[0:56:08] Voice 13: I'm a producter on Pete's Island

[0:56:11] Voice 13: I'm one of the

[0:56:12] Voice 13: peaceful news executive which covers everything

[0:56:14] Voice 13: from the total wall

[0:56:16] Voice 13: to Sam and Rob

[0:56:18] Voice 17: chairman for many years and

[0:56:20] Voice 17: I've talked to this panel before

[0:56:23] Voice 17: on this topic

[0:56:24] Voice 17: every time it's come up

[0:56:26] Voice 17: so in writing and in person

[0:56:28] Voice 17: so

[0:56:31] Voice 17: I just want to go over

[0:56:33] Voice 17: a couple of things

[0:56:33] Voice 17: first of all

[0:56:35] Voice 17: do

[0:56:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): you have a question?

[0:56:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): I

[0:56:36] Voice 17: do. Okay. So, Kate Louise will remember this, Dan Rogers will remember this. There's a Joe will, many people will. There's a long history of Islands Trust that's been very much appreciated, which is to hold a meeting each year on Keats.

[0:56:53] Voice 17: It's typically in the middle of the summer, on a Saturday, with everybody in attendance.

[0:56:59] Voice 17: There's many people who are on feats, self-included, don't live there full-time.

[0:57:04] Voice 17: It's very difficult to get here, so I was late for the meeting.

[0:57:09] Voice 17: And I know that you're all interested in the Denver process. We've had this discussion before.

[0:57:14] Voice 17: I had this discussion when Dan was on the council on the paint reviews, and

[0:57:18] Voice 13: Dan and I talked about

[0:57:19] Voice 13: this and my understanding was that there would be a public hearing on

[0:57:24] Voice 17: geese in the summer on a

[0:57:27] Voice 17: saturday when people could attend there aren't enough people here to have public hearings

[0:57:31] Voice 17: everyone's very concerned with this bylaw this is not a sufficient representation of our community

[0:57:38] Voice 17: interested in democracy and process it just isn't so my request is that we stick to the promises and

[0:57:47] Voice 17: And we were promised that there would be a public hearing on Keats in the summer, on the weekend.

[0:57:52] Voice 17: One was scheduled, actually.

[0:57:54] Voice 17: And Dan will remember this, because at the very last minute, there was a COVID outbreak.

[0:57:59] Voice 17: I believe it was with camp, and the county had to be canceled.

[0:58:02] Voice 17: And then they were accepted to a CDS, et cetera, et cetera.

[0:58:05] Voice 17: So I know Kate Louise is very big on, you know, representation of democracy in the community.

[0:58:11] Voice 17: And that's all appreciated.

[0:58:13] Voice 17: Many people have strong opinions.

[0:58:14] Voice 17: There are lots of things above these bylaws that are approachable and need to be discussed.

[0:58:21] Voice 17: But today isn't the chance to do that.

[0:58:23] Voice 17: It has to be in the summer, on the weekend, on the weekend.

[0:58:27] Voice 17: That's how you get the public.

[0:58:29] Voice 17: This isn't a public hearing.

[0:58:30] Voice 17: It's a small, select group of people who, in the middle of the week, can be in Gibsons.

[0:58:35] Voice 17: Not on the island, where Alam's Trust should be operating.

[0:58:38] Voice 17: So I would encourage you to stick to your previous practices and promises to carry through in this

[0:58:46] Voice 17: process and have these kind of public meetings. Wait till you can have it in an environment where

[0:58:52] Voice 17: you actually get proper feedback and go through the due process, okay? That's my question. When

[0:59:00] Voice 17: are you going to schedule a public hearing for this purpose? On heats, in the summer,

[0:59:06] Voice 17: on the weekend, which people could actually attend.

[0:59:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay.

[0:59:10] Voice 17: Thank you, Philip.

[0:59:11] Voice 17: I

[0:59:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): don't have an answer for that.

[0:59:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): We're here today.

[0:59:14] Voice 17: We did try.

[0:59:15] Voice 17: Did you?

[0:59:17] Voice 17: What weekend did you try to have a public hearing

[0:59:20] Voice 17: this summer on Keats and couldn't do it?

[0:59:25] Voice 17: We

[0:59:25] Voice 4: looked for a place,

[0:59:27] Voice 4: and the places always gave a challenge for us on Keats.

[0:59:31] Voice 17: I'm sure the camp would be very happy

[0:59:33] Voice 17: to allow a meeting to occur at their site,

[0:59:36] Voice 17: phone that people involved right now and it's never been a problem before it was this time yeah

[0:59:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): okay um in the yeah the gentleman in the white there and then i'll come to one in the back row

[0:59:52] Trustee Luckham (probable): there you can call up the name just one no i don't know

[0:59:55] Voice 6: uh assuming these bylaws will be

[1:00:00] Voice 6: passed, how will they be enforced?

[1:00:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): Enforcement is typically by complaint, and if a complaint is filed and the complaint

[1:00:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): is assessed as being viable, then by law enforcement will conduct an investigation.

[1:00:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): And if by law enforcement determines that yes, indeed, there is a legitimate complaint,

[1:00:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): then the property owner will be notified through the process of the whole process.

[1:00:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): us. But we have a file enforcement branch and they will

[1:00:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): look after the neighbors report. We don't do proactive

[1:00:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): enforcement. The gentleman there in

[1:00:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): the back row, and then it

[1:00:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): was up to you. And maybe that's

[1:00:52] Trustee Luckham (probable): itself.

[1:00:54] Voice 17: It'd be very small portion of my house is within

[1:00:58] Voice 17: in the 15 meter area and I need to put a new roof on.

[1:01:04] Voice 17: Do I need to get a permit and a survey

[1:01:07] Voice 17: to have the whole assessment run?

[1:01:10] Planner (probable): So there's a lot of exemptions that are listed

[1:01:13] Planner (probable): in the by-law and one of the first exemption

[1:01:16] Planner (probable): is repair and maintenance of buildings.

[1:01:18] Planner (probable): So that would not work.

[1:01:19] Voice 17: All right, I have another question.

[1:01:21] Voice 17: Now you talk about, there were a lot of complaints

[1:01:23] Voice 17: about dogs on roofs.

[1:01:25] Voice 17: Were any of those complaints from people with dogs?

[1:01:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): in i can't say for sure but you know i can tell you that certainly there are people that are

[1:01:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): that are wanting to build new docks that are looking at modern standards in terms of shading

[1:01:44] Trustee Luckham (probable): on the seed floor and stuff certainly they potentially have a dock and they are concerned

[1:01:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): about how other docks have been constructed so that's right and then uh you talk about

[1:01:57] Voice 17: about marine buoys being heard.

[1:01:59] Voice 17: All right, marine buoys generally have a chain

[1:02:04] Voice 17: as a big circular motion, round, yang,

[1:02:09] Voice 17: which basically plows the bottom of the ocean,

[1:02:12] Voice 17: dots it stationary, and creates habitat.

[1:02:17] Voice 17: Why is

[1:02:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): it buoyed?

[1:02:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): Can I turn in on that?

[1:02:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): I would just say that there are preferred techniques

[1:02:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): for installation of a buoy,

[1:02:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): buoy, of which the chain dragging on the bottom is not one of them. You should have a mid-water

[1:02:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): float to suspend the chain above the bottom. And particularly, it's recommended that mooring

[1:02:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): buoys not be placed in eelgrass areas, so therefore in water deeper than 25 feet.

[1:02:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): Well, eelgrass is supposed to show up. Nobody's going to put an anchor.

[1:02:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): They do. Believe it or not.

[1:02:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): Well, I imagine there's some in most cases, I'm sure.

[1:03:00] Voice 17: And what are your studies that prove that a marine buoy is better?

[1:03:10] Voice 17: Sorry, where is your studies indicating that docks encourage erosion?

[1:03:18] I

[1:03:23] Voice 17: don't have that information.

[1:03:25] Planner (probable): What is it based on?

[1:03:27] Planner (probable): i mean there's no it's not well let the staff answer i mean they want you to work well there's

[1:03:32] Planner (probable): a there's a on the website you can have a look at all the project information on the website and

[1:03:37] Planner (probable): where

[1:03:38] Voice 15: was that study i

[1:03:40] Planner (probable): don't know that they're the director there

[1:03:42] Voice 15: was something done before

[1:03:48] Voice 8: you don't know you

[1:04:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): know i uh i'd say i don't know that there's i think the answer is right

[1:04:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): We don't know of a specific report.

[1:04:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): There's a lot of anecdotal information associated with visual impact, associated with cumulative

[1:04:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): impacts of the structures that are attached to the shoreline, associated with creosoted

[1:04:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): pilings, which has been historically used.

[1:04:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): Certainly, that's not encouraged today.

[1:04:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): I think that's been opened.

[1:04:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): Yeah.

[1:04:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): It's interesting to note that creosoted pilings still get put in, but there we go.

[1:04:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): um and maintenance of the docks and all those sorts of things are yeah

[1:04:36] Voice 17: there's there's definitely

[1:04:37] Voice 17: so i'm getting a pair of that but i think people generally i'm saying a lot of that because

[1:04:43] Voice 17: okay appreciate

[1:04:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): that thank you if i could address yeah go ahead

[1:05:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): i'm going to go to the other speaker at the moment he's going to move this along

[1:05:12] Voice 14: i'd like to respond to kevin root's question he deserves a clearer answer

[1:05:18] Planner (probable): absolutely there

[1:05:19] Planner (probable): was a debate happening at the table i could list the reports that are on the website if that's

[1:05:23] Planner (probable): helpful that

[1:05:24] Voice 14: would be helpful i just wanted to point out kevin when you you made a reference

[1:05:29] Voice 14: to you know where did the complaints from uh about the docs i'm not aware you mentioned there's a lot

[1:05:34] Voice 14: complaints i'm not aware of anybody on the staff or or the local trust and decided saying that there

[1:05:41] Voice 14: were ever a lot of complaints i'm not sure there were ever any complaints the information that we

[1:05:45] Voice 14: received is that the working group looked at this thing and concluded in agreement with staff that

[1:05:52] Voice 14: it better or different regulations would be a good idea so it's i think it would be a mistake to

[1:05:58] Voice 14: think that this was complaint driven that's answering one question and with respect to your

[1:06:02] Voice 14: question about where's the data where's the research one of the earlier things i asked for

[1:06:07] Voice 14: at the beginning of the term was that the staff compiled an annotated version of bylaw

[1:06:11] Voice 17: 154 so that

[1:06:13] Voice 17: they could correlate the various innovations that were proposed in it to the scientific background

[1:06:18] Voice 17: for it staff did produce that it's somewhere on the website perhaps that way your planner can

[1:06:27] Voice 17: direct us to it thank you

[1:06:28] Planner (probable): well yeah there's that that's available on the gambier island project

[1:06:32] Planner (probable): website and there's a lot of references that are included in that annotated by-law. There's also

[1:06:37] Planner (probable): the Howe Sound Biosphere Region Best Management Practices for Marine Docs that's available on

[1:06:43] Planner (probable): the website and that's a document full of references as well. There was a shoreline

[1:06:49] Planner (probable): discussion paper that was produced in June of 2020 and then again there'd be references

[1:06:56] Planner (probable): throughout that paper as well.

[1:07:00] Voice 17: I just sort of finish up on that.

[1:07:05] Voice 17: People, everybody has different needs.

[1:07:08] Voice 17: Some people

[1:07:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): have big goals, some people have small goals.

[1:07:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): So do we have a question?

[1:07:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): Because this is the question.

[1:07:15] Voice 17: Why are you lumping everybody into the same size?

[1:07:18] Voice 17: Is there a process in order to, say, get a larger dot?

[1:07:24] Voice 17: Or are you going to say it's 65 footer?

[1:07:30] Voice 17: apply for a variance

[1:07:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): yeah and you can do that yeah okay yeah

[1:07:35] Voice 13: um

[1:07:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): okay so now back to you sir

[1:07:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): i

[1:07:39] Voice 13: tend to do the plan from

[1:07:41] Voice 17: my earlier comment that this isn't that adequate for people or

[1:07:44] Voice 17: representation of residents of the island for ecology right i'm wondering it feels like this

[1:07:51] Voice 17: has been rammed through on wednesday morning when a lot of people can't so my question is

[1:07:56] Voice 17: them what's the remedy of the constituents against them how do we cause change on

[1:08:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): that and do this

[1:08:03] Trustee Luckham (probable): well speaking up that you have now is certainly one remedy um the ltc needs to determine whether

[1:08:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): or not wants to take that action yeah but yeah so there's no

[1:08:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): democratic process to say no this

[1:08:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): wasn't we are the representation of democracy so it's up to this body to determine all right

[1:08:26] Voice 4: I don't see this as a place for me to be discussing back and forth, but I would really challenge that word ramming through.

[1:08:36] Voice 4: This has been seven years, multiple community information meetings.

[1:08:41] Voice 4: This is the second public hearing.

[1:08:44] Voice 4: We recognize this is important.

[1:08:46] Voice 4: This was the date that was available.

[1:08:50] Voice 4: We did try and go on the island.

[1:08:52] Voice 4: There wasn't any location available.

[1:08:54] Voice 4: You do have that specific challenge on Keats.

[1:08:57] Voice 4: We have made other attempts to meet on Keats,

[1:09:01] Voice 4: and there have been different kinds of challenges.

[1:09:04] Voice 4: I'm not going to speak to Wednesday.

[1:09:08] Voice 4: There are, that's when staff can attend.

[1:09:11] Voice 4: We have had meetings on a weekend,

[1:09:14] Voice 4: but those have generally been community information meetings.

[1:09:18] Voice 4: We've had meetings in the evenings on the mainland in Vancouver,

[1:09:23] Voice 4: and that is based on the ability of staff to get there as well so these are staff run uh scenarios

[1:09:32] Voice 4: but i am really going to challenge the word ram through this has been going on a very long time

[1:09:38] Voice 4: and i have heard a lot of voices i am listening to you okay

[1:09:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): so um i'm gonna go here perhaps we could

[1:09:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): move on to the public hearing portion the

[1:09:53] Voice 15: question is why has it taken seven years

[1:09:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): Well, that's a terrific question, because I just, I don't know, to tell you the truth.

[1:10:05] Voice 15: I will submit that we've been waiting for an awful lot of the residents to keep silent,

[1:10:10] Voice 15: do not support these bylaws as written.

[1:10:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay, but there's been...

[1:10:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): I can answer part of the question.

[1:10:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): I'm not going to bother answering the question.

[1:10:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): Even

[1:10:21] Voice 14: two years of the delay is me, because I've been arguing...

[1:10:29] Voice 17: but

[1:10:29] Voice 14: your observation is uh consistent with my experience that there's this process has taken

[1:10:37] Voice 14: a long time because there's been a lot of less than supportive feedback from the community

[1:10:43] Voice 7: that's the process

[1:10:44] Trustee Luckham (probable): so can we move to the feedback part where you can tell us what you think of the

[1:10:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): biological do we have any more questions that need to be answered i'm going to recognize the

[1:10:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): gentleman here i apologize i missed you graham

[1:10:59] Voice 17: babies if there's an existing structure that gets

[1:11:04] Voice 17: caught within the setbacks here the violence goes through disaster strikes that the structure is

[1:11:12] Voice 17: destroyed will we be allowed to rebuild from the same footprint without appearance no

[1:11:19] Planner (probable): so you would

[1:11:20] Planner (probable): need to get it developed if the structure is completely destroyed and you're rebuilding

[1:11:23] Planner (probable): would need to be a development permit.

[1:11:26] Planner (probable): But that's 75%

[1:11:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): of the building is destroyed, right?

[1:11:29] Trustee Luckham (probable): When we say complete, that's more than 75% of the building.

[1:11:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): So if the foundation is remaining,

[1:11:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): there's potential you could rebuild,

[1:11:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): but that would be required to be assessed.

[1:11:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): Yeah.

[1:11:43] Voice 7: Okay.

[1:11:44] Voice 7: Does that convert, sorry, does that,

[1:11:46] Voice 7: is that maintenance then?

[1:11:49] Voice 7: If you've got a structure

[1:11:51] Voice 7: that you've still got this foundation and you're telling us that you're just said that we can put

[1:11:57] Voice 7: a new roof on and we can do maintenance is that maintenance or is that you're not like if there's

[1:12:04] Planner (probable): a fire or something do you mean yeah

[1:12:06] Voice 7: you know i'm i'm with graham i i when the when all the water

[1:12:11] Voice 7: keeps coming up my cottage is not going to be waterfront anymore except the underwater it's

[1:12:16] Voice 7: so close to the water okay so you know i'm sitting here saying to myself okay so a

[1:12:22] Voice 7: a tree lands on the side of my house and a bunch of it's ruined.

[1:12:27] Voice 7: Am I going to have to go through two or three years of permitting to be able

[1:12:32] Voice 7: to use my cabin again? Sorry, I used a cabin, it's a cottage, you know,

[1:12:37] Voice 7: am I going to be able to do that? Like I I'm struggling with.

[1:12:41] Voice 17: The repair exemption includes it

[1:12:44] Voice 14: specifies that includes replacement of,

[1:12:47] Voice 14: you know, fundamental building components.

[1:12:50] Voice 14: So if the tree falls on your roof and you've got to replace the roof with some structural

[1:12:54] Voice 14: material,

[1:12:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): that should be covered by that exemption.

[1:12:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): Should be.

[1:12:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): Well, if a tree falling on your house isn't going to destroy 75%.

[1:13:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): We're talking about fire.

[1:13:02] Voice 7: Oh, you haven't seen the trees around my house.

[1:13:04] Voice 7: Yeah,

[1:13:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): I have the same tree that you have.

[1:13:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): I've seen damage.

[1:13:08] Voice 7: Yeah, yeah.

[1:13:08] Voice 7: But it could.

[1:13:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): It could.

[1:13:10] Voice 7: So it's just like, but because we're so close to the waterline.

[1:13:16] Voice 4: Sorry, but you just kind of said it.

[1:13:19] Voice 4: Because my cottage could be underwater.

[1:13:21] Voice 8: Yeah.

[1:13:22] Voice 4: this is the reason we are looking at putting this dpa in because this is a standard across

[1:13:30] Voice 4: the whole coast it's actually 15 meters this

[1:13:33] Voice 7: file is not going to change my cottage being

[1:13:35] Voice 7: underwater when the when when the water

[1:13:38] Voice 4: rises the ability to provide new construction new development

[1:13:45] Voice 4: in these areas so close to the waterfront part of the reason is because we recognize

[1:13:52] Voice 4: that damage from sea level rise, climate change, is more acute in that foreshore area.

[1:14:01] Voice 4: In these areas, this is where it's happening.

[1:14:04] Voice 4: So this is a way of looking at new construction to move back from that area.

[1:14:10] Voice 4: That's how we're encouraging that, moving back from the foreshore.

[1:14:15] Voice 4: And it's for insurance purposes.

[1:14:17] Voice 4: It's all sorts of purposes.

[1:14:19] Voice 4: But it's because of that construction.

[1:14:21] Voice 4: So that's one of the impetuses for having this consideration of violence, is exactly what you said.

[1:14:30] Voice 7: But it's not going to change where my cottage is now.

[1:14:32] Voice 4: No, but it might change

[1:14:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): where somebody else's cottage is.

[1:14:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): So, questions on the byline? The lady in the front, I haven't heard you speak yet.

[1:14:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): My

[1:14:41] Voice 7: question just is, I sense a very

[1:14:45] Voice 4: combative atmosphere here. Are you open to changing and amending these bylaws, or is this really just a matter of discussion?

[1:14:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): We're obligated.

[1:15:00] Voice 17: I'd like to thank Joe for requesting the comments in the bylaws of where you can find the source material.

[1:15:14] Voice 17: I did read all of those, appreciated them very much.

[1:15:17] Voice 17: So far as I could tell, the key piece of science, let's call it, that backs all of this is very old.

[1:15:27] Voice 17: It's like a 20-year-old paper that's written about rivers.

[1:15:30] Voice 17: It talks about riparian functions and things like that.

[1:15:33] Voice 17: So we're on the ocean, not a river, and the environment here is different.

[1:15:37] Voice 17: And I wasn't able to find a peer-reviewed report in marine biology or forestry or something

[1:15:46] Voice 17: like that that was peer-reviewed, published science on anything that you're talking about.

[1:15:52] Voice 17: It feels like it's made up by references to documents that don't really apply to us, situations

[1:15:58] Voice 17: that aren't quite what we have, best practices of what people are doing in other places,

[1:16:02] Voice 17: but no underlying science.

[1:16:04] Voice 17: that is concerning for a bylaws of this import not to be grounded in science in a way that i can see

[1:16:12] Voice 17: and i read scientific papers all day long for a job so it's it's uh i was concerned by that

[1:16:20] Voice 17: but maybe i missed something my question is did i miss something are are there actually published

[1:16:26] Voice 17: scientific studies that back up things like you have to be 50 meters from the water things like

[1:16:30] Voice 17: that and

[1:16:32] Planner (probable): then ask the planet yeah i

[1:16:34] Voice 17: mean it sounds like you've done

[1:16:35] Planner (probable): a full review but um they are

[1:16:38] Planner (probable): available on the website that's what we've reviewed and in

[1:16:42] Voice 13: those published peer-reviewed

[1:16:43] Voice 13: research not not position papers by this group of doctor scientific

[1:16:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): papers in fact even advanced by

[1:16:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): the province okay thank you everybody i'm going to move from the public comment period into the

[1:17:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): public hearing. This is a formal process as you would expect and so I have a few statements to

[1:17:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): make and then we will proceed with hearing your points of view on the bylaw. Thank you for your

[1:17:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): in-depth questions and indeed I'm just going to say that we are obligated to have open minds and

[1:17:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): take everything that we've heard here today, everything we've received in writing, consider

[1:17:29] Trustee Luckham (probable): consider it carefully, and determine whether or not we continue to believe that the bylaws

[1:17:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): that would advance to this stage are suitable to be advanced beyond this point into law.

[1:17:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): And so we always have an open mind, and so really appreciate the remarks I've heard here

[1:17:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): today.

[1:17:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): So the public hearing for proposed bylaw number 153 and 154 is now open.

[1:17:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): I wish to welcome everyone in attendance and acknowledge that we are meeting in the territory

[1:18:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): of the Coast Salish First Nations.

[1:18:04] Trustee Luckham (probable): My name's Peter Luckum.

[1:18:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): I'm chair of the Gambria Island Local Trust Committee.

[1:18:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): I'd like to introduce the Gambria Island

[1:18:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): Local Trust Committee trustees,

[1:18:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): Kate Lewis-Stamford and Joe Bernardo,

[1:18:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): as well as staff, Marlis McCarger, Nadine Morrow,

[1:18:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): and Lisa Millard is looking after our minutes.

[1:18:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): So this public hearing is being convened pursuant

[1:18:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): to section 465 of the Local Government Act

[1:18:29] Trustee Luckham (probable): in order to consider proposed bylaw number 153

[1:18:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): cited as keats island official community plan 2002 amendment number one 2021 and proposed bylaw

[1:18:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): number 154 cited as keats island land use bylaw 2002 amendment number one 2021 all persons who

[1:18:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): believe that their interest in property is affected by the proposed bylaws will be given a reasonable

[1:18:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): opportunity to be heard or to present written submissions respecting matters contained in the

[1:19:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): proposed bylaws those wishing to speak should commence their presentation by clearly stating

[1:19:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): their names members of the local trust committee may if they wish ask questions of you following

[1:19:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): your presentation however the main function of the local trust committee members is to listen

[1:19:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): to the views of the public it is not the function of the committee members to debate the merits of

[1:19:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): the proposed bylaw with individual citizens everyone will be given a reasonable opportunity

[1:19:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): opportunity to be heard and none should feel discouraged from presenting their views.

[1:19:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): In considering the proposed bylaws, the Local Trust Committee has received documents which

[1:19:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): may influence its decision. Those documents are available for review during this hearing as

[1:19:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): available on our website and indicated in the public hearing notice. Any person who wishes

[1:19:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): to present a written submission to the Local Trust Committee may do so and all written

[1:19:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): submissions are available for review during this hearing. Written submissions must be received

[1:19:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): by the local trust committee before the close of the hearing your final opportunity to comment on

[1:20:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): the proposed bylaws is during the hearing as members of the local trust committee may not

[1:20:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): receive further submissions nor discuss the proposed bylaws with the public after the close

[1:20:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): of the hearing after this public hearing is concluded the local trust committee may without

[1:20:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): further notice make whatever decision it seems appropriate with respect to the bylaws that are

[1:20:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): the subject of the hearing right so uh planner mcgargar will now summarize the public hearing

[1:20:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): notice uh key points of the bylaw and referral agency responses all

[1:20:39] Planner (probable): right so a copy of the notice

[1:20:41] Planner (probable): was advertised in two consecutive editions of the coast reporter on july 19th and 26th

[1:20:47] Planner (probable): all notification requirements of the local government act have been completed

[1:20:51] Planner (probable): there's a copy of the complete binder available during this public hearing it's just on the table

[1:20:57] Planner (probable): in the corner there if anyone wants to have a look and it's also available on the website

[1:21:02] Planner (probable): so as discussed earlier in the community information meetings the purpose of the

[1:21:08] Planner (probable): bylaw these bylaws is to establish a new shoreline development permit area and to amend

[1:21:12] Planner (probable): building and structure siting and size regulations in relation to the natural boundary of the sea

[1:21:18] Planner (probable): as well as regulations related to marine structures the intent of bylaw number 153

[1:21:24] Planner (probable): if adopted would be to amend the Keats Island Official Community Plan

[1:21:28] Planner (probable): bylaw number 77-2002 to establish

[1:21:32] Planner (probable): development permit area 3 shoreline EPA 3 for the purposes of

[1:21:36] Planner (probable): protecting the natural environment and its ecosystems and biodiversity

[1:21:40] Planner (probable): and to protect development from hazardous conditions. The intent

[1:21:45] Planner (probable): of bylaw number 154 if adopted would be to amend the Keats Island

[1:21:49] Planner (probable): land use bylaw number 78-2002 to increase setbacks

[1:21:53] Planner (probable): between private floats and docks, from side lot lines, and from adjacent private floats and docks,

[1:21:58] Planner (probable): reduce the permitted float area and dock ramp width, and include the DPA-3 guidelines,

[1:22:03] Planner (probable): exemptions, and applicability. Proposed bylaw numbers 153 and 154 were referred to one provincial

[1:22:09] Planner (probable): agency, one regional agency, three adjacent local trust committees and municipalities,

[1:22:15] Planner (probable): seven non-agencies, and 14 First Nations. The bylaw was initially referred out in 2021,

[1:22:23] Planner (probable): and then re-referred in 2022 due to changes to the bylaws.

[1:22:27] Planner (probable): Following comments and responses were received by the local trust committee

[1:22:30] Planner (probable): following the referral period.

[1:22:32] Planner (probable): The Gabriela Island local trust committee, interest unaffected.

[1:22:36] Planner (probable): Galeano local trust committee, interest unaffected.

[1:22:39] Planner (probable): Islands Trust Conservancy, interest unaffected.

[1:22:43] Planner (probable): And the staff indicated that the ITC is generally supportive

[1:22:47] Planner (probable): of increased protection of shoreline ecosystems.

[1:22:49] Planner (probable): systems. Laskete Island LTC, interest unaffected. Ministry of Forest, Lands, Natural Resource

[1:22:57] Planner (probable): Operations and Rural Development, interest unaffected. Squamish Nation recommended language

[1:23:05] Planner (probable): addressing archaeological concerns that should be incorporated into the bylaw, specifically

[1:23:10] Planner (probable): that ground disturbance through construction or maintenance plan in the shoreline zone

[1:23:15] Planner (probable): and archaeological assessment would be required. The LTC did not move forward with that recommendation.

[1:23:23] Planner (probable): DPA guidelines are not permitted to require archaeological assessments.

[1:23:27] Planner (probable): They recommended stronger language for construction and replacement of docks and ramps

[1:23:32] Planner (probable): around and near eelgrass and kelp beds. So guidelines were updated to specify that a

[1:23:38] Planner (probable): qualified professional biologist would need to be consulted to determine the appropriate distance

[1:23:42] Planner (probable): between docks and eelgrass and kelp bed.

[1:23:46] Planner (probable): They recommended stronger language for the construction

[1:23:49] Planner (probable): and replacement of docks and ramps.

[1:23:51] Planner (probable): Mooring buoys must be seagrass-friendly to prevent scouring on the seafloor,

[1:23:55] Planner (probable): must include buoys with midline float to prevent unnecessary damage

[1:24:00] Planner (probable): to eelgrass habitat.

[1:24:02] Planner (probable): Guidelines were not updated, but the LTC did put a mooring buoy

[1:24:08] Planner (probable): community education program on the project's list.

[1:24:10] Planner (probable): And the Squamish Nation requested that the setback of buildings be 15 meters and not seven and a half.

[1:24:22] Planner (probable): The setback remained at seven and a half meters.

[1:24:26] Planner (probable): Staff in the LTC met with Squamish Nation and discussed rationale.

[1:24:30] Planner (probable): However, Squamish Nation's position remained that the setback should be 15 meters.

[1:24:40] Planner (probable): Keats Island Conservation Group the Keats Island Conservation Group indicated that they are in

[1:24:46] Planner (probable): support of the proposed bylaws you'll see a special note on this referral response as it

[1:24:51] Planner (probable): was amended the original response was from a resident and not a representative of the group

[1:24:56] Planner (probable): Keats Landing leaseholders not in support strong opposition from the Keats Landing leaseholders

[1:25:03] Planner (probable): members. Much of the cottage lots are small cityside lots. Accommodating setbacks would

[1:25:10] Planner (probable): be difficult, including proposed setbacks between docks and lot line projections. So

[1:25:16] Planner (probable): the building setback in response to the building setback was reduced from 15 meters to seven

[1:25:21] Planner (probable): and a half meters. The proposed setbacks between docks and lot line projections are informed

[1:25:28] Planner (probable): by the requirements in the province's land use operational policy for private mortgage.

[1:25:35] Planner (probable): We've received 16 submissions so far as of 10 a.m.

[1:25:40] Planner (probable): Were there any other written submissions that were received?

[1:25:42] Planner (probable): So we're at 16 and would advise if any others are received before the public hearing.

[1:25:50] Planner (probable): And the LTC would take the time to read those before the public hearing.

[1:25:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): So I have a speaker's list that many of you have put your names on.

[1:26:03] Trustee Luckham (probable): I'm going to ask Nadine to bring that up front here.

[1:26:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): And I'm going to start with that speaker's list to go through the room.

[1:26:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): If you haven't got your name on that speaker's list now, I'll certainly take speakers once I've concluded the list.

[1:26:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): There is some blank pieces of paper at the back and some pencils.

[1:26:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): If you want to make a public comment that you don't wish to speak to us today and you want to write it down, please do that.

[1:26:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): And then we will be reviewing those items before we close the hearing.

[1:26:37] Voice 14: Mr. Chair, can I suggest that we, before we actually start receiving submissions, that we take a short break?

[1:26:43] Voice 14: We've been here for an hour and a half.

[1:26:45] Voice 14: That's

[1:26:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): fair. Is that the pleasure of the LTC?

[1:26:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay. We're going to take a 10-minute pause.

[1:26:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): You can think about what you'd like to advise us, and we'll come back at 20 minutes to 12.

[1:26:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): Thank you for your time. Thank you.

[1:27:05] Voice 8: It's not okay.

[1:27:08] Voice 8: Make some million.

[1:38:39] Voice 8: excuse me chair luckham you are muted but

[1:38:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): two minutes and 59 seconds

[1:38:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): but let's try and self-manage our time to assist you in that our uh uh nadine our

[1:38:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): our legislative clerk here has got a little one minute

[1:39:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): so when you see

[1:39:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): that just so you know

[1:39:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay, perfect. Any questions? All right. Let us begin then. So I'm just going to go through this. Gary Fraser, our first speaker today.

[1:39:17] Voice 17: Thank you. I'm a co-owner of a property on Heath's Island in Pumper Cove. And it's been in my family since 1938, almost 90 years.

[1:39:30] Voice 17: We've had several generations, I think we're on the fifth generation of members of my family that have enjoyed Pete's Island.

[1:39:40] Voice 17: And during that entire time, I believe that my family and my neighbors have been good stewards of the land and the foreshore on Pete's Island.

[1:39:54] Voice 17: We've done, I don't think there's a person among us who doesn't hold environmental values, ecological values to be very high.

[1:40:06] Voice 17: and my view is that uh is that this process is while it has taken seven years it has not enjoyed

[1:40:21] Voice 17: the support of a sufficient number of geese islanders to warrant implementing today the

[1:40:28] Voice 17: bylaw that's been proposed somewhat reluctantly um i can sort of sign on to what trustee bernardo

[1:40:36] Voice 17: Joe Bernardo has recommended, but at a minimum, I would express my agreement with the proviso

[1:40:49] Voice 17: that it apply to new construction and that it not apply to existing structures.

[1:40:59] Voice 17: I'm also concerned about the whole development permit aspect of this thing.

[1:41:09] Voice 17: And I think it can't, it's not a trivial matter.

[1:41:12] Voice 17: We talk about, okay, well, you can, there's variances and there's, you know, you can get a lot accomplished outside of school district requirements.

[1:41:22] Voice 17: I've recently built a coach house in North Vancouver for my daughter and her family.

[1:41:27] Voice 17: I went through months of this permitting process.

[1:41:31] Voice 17: I engaged more engineers and professionals than you can take a stick at.

[1:41:34] Voice 17: It was extremely costly.

[1:41:37] Voice 17: Many of the families on Keats Island

[1:41:39] Voice 17: are middle income family whatever that might mean actually today but but not extremely wealthy

[1:41:46] Voice 17: and i have a real concern both about the cost and the uncertainty of the process of development

[1:41:55] Voice 17: obtaining variances and permits themselves it's a mistake yes sir steve smith steve smith from

[1:42:05] Voice 3: Pumper Cove in Keats Island, his neighbor. Before I get to my main point, I just want to tell you a

[1:42:11] Voice 3: quick little story. I have a very, very good friend who's a marine biologist. He spent 30 years doing

[1:42:17] Voice 3: studies for the government, environmental studies in the water. He's been over to Pumper Cove many,

[1:42:23] Voice 3: many times. And as this moved forward, I asked him, what do you think of all this regulation?

[1:42:28] Voice 3: When you make this, what are we doing wrong? What could we be doing better? And how does this relate

[1:42:33] Voice 3: lake to the size of floats and he said you know i gotta tell you i've looked at a lot of stuff

[1:42:39] Voice 3: up and down this coastline and i just don't see that these floats and these dogs are doing any

[1:42:47] Voice 3: damage there's an environment under them that's that's being created it's sort of like having

[1:42:53] Voice 3: a tree in a field where the sun's moving so the shadow under it isn't staying in the same place

[1:42:59] Voice 3: And I share this with you because it shakes my belief that best practices are based on data as they're being referred to in this study.

[1:43:14] Voice 3: We have many, many good people here.

[1:43:18] Voice 3: All my neighbors care about the environment.

[1:43:20] Voice 3: As Gary said, we all try to be good stewards.

[1:43:24] Voice 3: Everybody wants to do the right thing, and we actually believe that you want to do good stuff, too.

[1:43:29] Voice 3: Using the term best practices is a lot like writing a check. It requires trust for me to

[1:43:37] Voice 3: accept. I think you guys have a crisis of support in these bylaws and I think that that's becoming

[1:43:48] Voice 3: a crisis of trust in the process.

[1:43:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): Thank you very much. Susan Kiko, hope

[1:43:57] Voice 15: I got that right.

[1:43:58] Voice 15: Yes, thank you. Also, I agree with everything that is already being said. So many interests

[1:44:08] Voice 15: in talking about slightly different aspects of this. The statement has been made that

[1:44:14] Voice 15: the DPA is to protect natural environment and its ecosystem and biodiversity, which

[1:44:22] Voice 15: which I fully support.

[1:44:25] Voice 15: However, some of the provisions in the bylaws

[1:44:28] Voice 15: have nothing whatsoever to do with them.

[1:44:31] Voice 15: And I will go back to specifically the issue

[1:44:34] Voice 15: of the what can be done between 7.5 meters

[1:44:38] Voice 15: and 15 meters on already severely disturbed land.

[1:44:44] Voice 15: And I don't see any justification whatsoever

[1:44:48] Voice 15: for limiting what we can do on our properties

[1:44:50] Voice 15: on that already disturbed land.

[1:44:53] Voice 15: The shoreline of Keats has been developed for decades now.

[1:44:58] Voice 15: There's practically nothing left that is actually natural.

[1:45:03] Voice 15: There's certainly nothing left in Tongva Cove that is natural.

[1:45:09] Voice 15: What we have is land that has been landscaped.

[1:45:14] Voice 15: It has been filled in.

[1:45:16] Voice 15: It has been built on.

[1:45:18] Voice 15: It has been gardened, there are wood sheds, there are other structures.

[1:45:25] Voice 15: None of these things impact the natural ecosystem of the foreshore.

[1:45:30] Voice 15: And expanding an existing cabin will not impact the existing foreshore, or the natural environment, or the marine ecosystems, or biodiversity in the region.

[1:45:43] Voice 15: I noticed that the very last page of the binder that Trustee Bernardo proposed some additional wording for an exemption that in addition to alterations to existing structures, additions of a reasonable size would also be allowed without an exception.

[1:46:03] Voice 15: And I strongly support that wording. I do not feel that there is any justification for restricting what we can do on already disturbed land.

[1:46:16] Voice 15: Thank

[1:46:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): you very much. I'm just going to make an additional remark that I omitted to say earlier.

[1:46:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): And as we get rolling into this public hearing, I'm warming up to the process and enjoying what I'm hearing so far.

[1:46:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): are. And what I'm going to say is no reflection on anybody that spoke already and no reflection

[1:46:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): on anybody else that's on my list. But it's important that this be a safe place for all

[1:46:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): voices to be heard. And so we try not to, well, I don't want you to boo, of course, nor applaud

[1:46:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): any particular opinion that you see, because that makes it unsafe or uncomfortable for somebody with

[1:46:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): a contrary point of view to speak. And it's really critical that we hear all the voices

[1:46:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): So I just want to say that before I get too far into it, and it helps avoid an uncomfortable situation.

[1:47:03] Trustee Luckham (probable): And so my next speaker is Dan Rogers, and this isn't about me.

[1:47:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): I was going to say thanks for the setup.

[1:47:13] Voice 17: And Dan and I are friends.

[1:47:17] Voice 10: Most

[1:47:18] Voice 17: people know me, and it is an uncomfortable place for me because I have friends that are neighbors that are here,

[1:47:24] Voice 17: and people I've gotten to know in my many years as a trustee.

[1:47:30] Voice 14: And frankly, I was a trustee when the protest started.

[1:47:34] Voice 14: And

[1:47:35] Voice 17: as the Keats Island trustee and have watched this protest

[1:47:40] Voice 17: for all seven and a half years with varying degrees of frustration

[1:47:46] Voice 17: and anticipation and also with

[1:47:54] Voice 14: some thankfulness

[1:47:56] Voice 14: for the engagement of the community

[1:47:59] Voice 14: and in particular

[1:48:00] Voice 17: with the working group,

[1:48:01] Voice 17: which did a deep dive on this whole process

[1:48:05] Voice 17: and came up with the recommendation to staff

[1:48:08] Voice 17: of developing a DPA design.

[1:48:10] Voice 17: So let me just say my position is,

[1:48:13] Voice 17: I'm sorry, I live in Eastbourne,

[1:48:15] Voice 17: which is part of, which is community on the other side

[1:48:19] Voice 17: of Trees Island from Plumper Cove.

[1:48:23] Voice 14: I actually, and I'm a bit of a contrarian

[1:48:25] Voice 14: to some of the voices you're going to hear today

[1:48:27] Voice 14: because I actually strongly support the bylaws

[1:48:30] Voice 14: in their current form without further amendment

[1:48:33] Voice 17: with the exception of the minor amendments

[1:48:36] Voice 17: that of course the staff is recommending from IIC

[1:48:39] Voice 17: and that's from legal review, et cetera,

[1:48:41] Voice 17: that are on the agenda package that we've seen today.

[1:48:44] Voice 17: And

[1:48:45] Voice 14: let me tell you why. I'll be short. I filed a

[1:48:49] Voice 14: written submission in which I set out some of my reasons in detail. I think it's very important that this get done. And

[1:48:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): it has been seven and a half years.

[1:49:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): years. And one of the reasons is because

[1:49:06] Voice 17: people wanted to be engaged in the process and wanted

[1:49:10] Voice 17: to have their voices heard. COVID intervened a little bit, the election occurred, Trustee

[1:49:17] Voice 14: Bernardo wanted to review some of the provisions of the bylaws, but it's time to get it done.

[1:49:25] Voice 14: People had an opportunity to write if they couldn't be here today, this is the public

[1:49:29] Voice 14: hearing let's treat it with public hearing and get the process done. Secondly I wanted to say

[1:49:35] Voice 14: please don't make any further amendments and in particular don't dive down what I see as a rabbit

[1:49:41] Voice 14: hole that previously disturbed because that's a broad hole you're going to create in the

[1:49:47] Voice 14: development permit area that is actually going to defeat the purpose of the DPA.

[1:49:53] Voice 17: It's important that all land be respected whether it's been previously disturbed or not there have

[1:49:59] Voice 17: been some very good practices on this island and there have been some not so good practices

[1:50:04] Voice 17: on this island and the concept of previously disturbed is going to create a hole it simply

[1:50:11] Voice 17: doesn't work the last thing i want to say is i heard trustee bernardo and others say

[1:50:17] Voice 14: we need the process that is particular for keats island and and locally locally relevant

[1:50:24] Voice 14: And I'll just say this, that, first of all, Keats is not that different from other islands that I became familiar with when I was a

[1:50:32] Voice 17: trustee and I'm an executive.

[1:50:34] Voice 17: The development patterns are similar. The foreshore is similar. The topography is similar.

[1:50:39] Voice 17: All of these other places

[1:50:41] Voice 14: have DPAs of a variety of depth, particularly on the foreshore, or setbacks of 15 meters.

[1:50:48] Voice 14: But my point is, there is nothing more local or specific to a particular property than a DPA process, because it addresses the issues on that specific property and addresses the

[1:51:03] Voice 17: environmental concerns and what the situation on the ground is.

[1:51:07] Voice 17: It is the most local, specific process

[1:51:10] Voice 14: available to us.

[1:51:11] Voice 14: And that's one of the reasons, if people want that, that's what it does.

[1:51:16] Voice 14: I'll stop there.

[1:51:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): thank you dan okay george uh slave is that there yep thank you george i'll

[1:51:27] Voice 17: probably exceed three

[1:51:28] Voice 17: minutes but i can't see the clock uh uh keith's landing resident and um i have a couple of

[1:51:37] Voice 17: comments and i think that my main comment i'll go back to my comments i made in question period

[1:51:43] Voice 17: period, Islands Trust does not have the authority to regulate dogs and navigation.

[1:51:50] Voice 17: And I will note, when you went through the list of referrals, you did not refer this

[1:51:57] Voice 17: to the Ministry of Transportation or the federal government, nor did you refer it to the Fisheries

[1:52:04] Voice 17: and Oceans with the federal government.

[1:52:06] Voice 17: a clear effort to avoid comments that would tell you exactly the truth you don't have this

[1:52:14] Voice 17: authority now as far as the upland i can't speak to the legality of that but definitely within the

[1:52:23] Voice 17: navigable waters you can't do what you're trying to do and it will be challenged and it will cost

[1:52:29] Voice 17: a lot of money and it's wasted taxpayer money, that's not wasted. And my second

[1:52:36] Voice 11: point is you

[1:52:39] Voice 11: don't have the support. I'm blind, but I can tell you from this feeling in this room, you don't have

[1:52:46] Voice 11: the support. And how can a blind man see that and you guys not see it? That's,

[1:52:52] Voice 17: you know, you got to

[1:52:54] Voice 17: do something different we can't pass this thank you thank you george bill finlay uh hang on i

[1:53:02] Voice 17: wrote this down uh my name is bill finley a third generation car keeps landing we've had a cabin

[1:53:12] Voice 17: there since the early 90s like many of the corridors in the keats landing area our cottage

[1:53:17] Voice 17: was built within a few meters of the ocean our footprint of that cottage though is only about

[1:53:22] Voice 17: 650 square feet. In addition to that, we have an undeveloped lot beside us. We're fortunate

[1:53:29] Voice 17: with that. In previous meetings, I've asked that the new bylaws be considerate of the

[1:53:34] Voice 17: community that already exists on Keats. And I think two things have gone unnoticed, especially

[1:53:39] Voice 17: about the Keats line of Keats. The lots are small, and there's a lot of them. Our property

[1:53:45] Voice 17: line is 20 meters on one side and 20 meters on the other, extending back to the porch

[1:53:49] Voice 17: The proposal of a 7.5 or 15m setback will render those

[1:53:57] Voice 3: lots, or that lot, undevelopable

[1:53:58] Voice 3: as well as a number of other lots that are under.

[1:54:03] Voice 17: It's an unreasonable result from the by-laws.

[1:54:07] Voice 17: I think that any by-law that is passed should take into account construction on these properties

[1:54:12] Voice 17: and reservations to existing developments.

[1:54:14] Voice 17: There should be a clear path within the by-law to do so without the need for a variance.

[1:54:20] Voice 17: A second issue that I think needs to be considered is loss of dwellings by fire. The threat is very

[1:54:25] Voice 17: real. There's been a lot of conversation about climate change. We've discussed a lot about

[1:54:30] Voice 17: rising sea levels but not a lot about the threat of fire. Forest fire could easily devastate the

[1:54:37] Voice 17: entire island community and we have seen this in Kelowna and more recently in Jaskier. My

[1:54:43] Voice 17: understanding is that most waterfront buildings and cabins cannot be rebuilt on pre-existing

[1:54:47] Voice 17: and foundations. I think that's inappropriate. I think a clear path to reconstruction should

[1:54:52] Voice 17: be included in these by-laws. Lastly, I have a concern with the process, which I talked

[1:54:59] Voice 17: about earlier. If the timing and location of the meeting is comparable to the constituents,

[1:55:04] Voice 13: to be able to attend to the voice of the youths, I think being in Gibson's on a Wednesday morning

[1:55:10] Voice 13: is difficult for most people.

[1:55:12] Voice 17: So earlier you had asked, no problem, earlier you had asked

[1:55:16] Voice 17: if we support the bylaws being put forward

[1:55:20] Voice 17: for third reading as written.

[1:55:21] Voice 17: My answer to that question is no.

[1:55:23] Voice 17: I don't think they should be.

[1:55:25] Voice 17: You have 20 speakers and countless submissions.

[1:55:28] Voice 17: I don't think you have adequate time to consider that

[1:55:32] Voice 17: and do third reading today.

[1:55:33] Voice 17: I think providing

[1:55:35] Voice 3: notice in the Coastal Reporter

[1:55:37] Voice 3: isn't appropriate in

[1:55:39] Voice 13: today's world,

[1:55:40] Voice 13: especially knowing where most of the people

[1:55:42] Voice 13: in residency are.

[1:55:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): Paul Millett.

[1:55:56] Voice 6: I was part of this study group that involved about a dozen people.

[1:56:04] Voice 6: It was enjoyable to meet more residents of the island.

[1:56:08] Voice 6: I have to say, though, that if there were 12 people on that committee, we probably had 15 different opinions.

[1:56:13] Voice 6: I don't think there was a strong consensus until it came, but we did feel that something needed to be done.

[1:56:22] Voice 6: I was opposed to more regulation, strongly opposed to more regulation, until I took a boat ride past Cape Roger Curtis.

[1:56:32] Voice 6: And I saw the silly, absolutely silly waterfront development that was going on there.

[1:56:40] Voice 6: there. And I thought something needs to be done. And then I went past Cotton Point and

[1:56:46] Voice 6: I thought we've got our own issue. And so I encouraged the violence trust reps to develop

[1:56:53] Voice 6: something but I knew the devil would be in the details and Dan Rogers reminds me constantly

[1:57:00] Voice 6: that I made that comment at the time. And there were a lot of devils in the details.

[1:57:06] Voice 6: I also found out that Keats is a bit unique in the Islands Trust.

[1:57:12] Voice 6: We have more docks and waterfronts per kilometer than any other island.

[1:57:19] Voice 6: We also have less roads than any other island, which says to me that we rely more and more

[1:57:28] Voice 6: on our waterfront access to use our homes.

[1:57:31] Voice 6: and therefore Keats needed something unique in these bylaws and when the first proposals came

[1:57:39] Voice 6: out I didn't see that uniqueness and I kept hearing this best practices term which I think

[1:57:46] Voice 6: is just a way of killing discussion so I'm glad to see that what we've got now is much more livable

[1:57:53] Voice 6: than what we started out with and I encourage Joe and his persistence I think we've made a lot of

[1:58:02] Voice 6: headway in the last two years and if it takes another two years I'm not opposed to that so I

[1:58:08] Voice 6: say take the time to do it right I think the remaining issue on renovations and development

[1:58:15] Voice 6: of current buildings needs to be thought through more completely and maybe there could be a radius

[1:58:21] Voice 6: around current buildings that allows a different level

[1:58:26] Voice 6: of regulation so people can have a little more flexibility.

[1:58:30] Voice 6: The cost of this DPA process is going to be substantial.

[1:58:35] Voice 6: And I think we're going to see a lot

[1:58:37] Voice 6: of neighbors that will try to bypass.

[1:58:40] Voice 6: I don't like the idea of being complaint driven.

[1:58:43] Voice 6: Thank

[1:58:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): you very much, sir.

[1:58:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): Now I see a couple of names struck out here as I go through

[1:58:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): and I'm highly skeptical that anybody would strike

[1:58:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): them out without their permission but surprisingly i have seen that happen in other communities but

[1:59:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): martin springs was the first name that was struck out and okay thank you then and so the next thing

[1:59:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): is uh chris uh richie thanks

[1:59:08] Voice 11: apparently paul and i are twins separated at birth

[1:59:13] Voice 11: and i've already i've been on the committee with paul i provide a written submission uh but i

[1:59:18] Voice 11: i feel compelled to speak uh the fifth generation of our family is on his way

[1:59:23] Voice 11: from calgary to visit

[1:59:25] Voice 11: pizza so that's we're deeply uh vested in the place uh before i retired i worked as a biologist

[1:59:33] Voice 11: for the province and we dealt with best management practices all the time and i'm not intimidated by

[1:59:38] Voice 11: them because i think they're they're guides this is we we respectfully suggest do this and you'll

[1:59:44] Voice 11: come to a good conclusion. And I think if they're applied with common sense and a little bit of,

[1:59:50] Voice 11: this is not a laboratory, it's the ground, I think we can move forward.

[1:59:54] Voice 11: And I think that the exemption provisions, they need to be tested, but I can see a lot

[2:00:00] Voice 11: lot of opportunity for me to do the things i want to do for the most part uh within them so they're

[2:00:05] Voice 11: not uh got my knickers in a twist um i think that the the variance provisions are scary because as

[2:00:14] Voice 11: paul said i think you jump in there and just keep pulling the money up because there's going to be

[2:00:19] Voice 11: another guy i don't have a marine biologist i can call on to to help me out um and i don't i think

[2:00:26] Voice 11: that um uh option that way out past some of the the constraints is is thrown out very uh loosely

[2:00:36] Voice 11: without the implication of time or money to follow the the various provisions uh of course i never

[2:00:44] Voice 11: admit it but i can see as paul said paul not chris folks might start to opt out of the legal process

[2:00:51] Voice 11: that do things in the evening or on the weekend.

[2:00:54] Voice 11: And that's just, don't hide behind that kind of stuff.

[2:01:00] Voice 11: So I just, I think, in conclusion, two things.

[2:01:04] Voice 11: If this process can incentivize people to step up and not step

[2:01:09] Voice 11: into the dark, it's better than using a stick.

[2:01:12] Voice 11: Because I can avoid the stick by dodging.

[2:01:15] Voice 11: But if I want to do that, I'm going to be more committed

[2:01:18] Voice 11: and pitch it to my neighbor.

[2:01:20] Voice 11: And then finally, I hope that all of that is applied where the opportunities, maybe they're not a ton of them exist on new ground, literally new ground that doesn't have development or portions of properties that that have not been installed with a trail or a boathouse or a deck.

[2:01:40] Voice 11: I think there are, no disrespect to my neighbor here, there are opportunities to manage, not pristine, but functioning foreshore to continue to provide shading and fish and recreational opportunities. Thanks.

[2:01:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): Thank you very much.

[2:02:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): Ian Root.

[2:02:03] Trustee Luckham (probable): uh

[2:02:03] Voice 17: thank you for the opportunity to talk and thank you all for your time you put into uh

[2:02:10] Voice 17: what sometimes is a bit of a thankless task you

[2:02:13] Voice 13: provide um i trust you received the letter i

[2:02:17] Voice 13: submitted so i won't repeat it all um i don't understand why these extremely restrictive

[2:02:24] Voice 17: bylaws are being pushed on keeps island residents for over 80 years my family and some residents on

[2:02:34] Voice 17: monkeys. And we've always respected and cared for the environment. We pride ourselves on

[2:02:40] Voice 17: the care we've taken on our property, our flocks. Our family has continued to make trails,

[2:02:47] Voice 17: putting up signage, clearing trails after winter storm damage,

[2:02:54] Voice 13: removal

[2:02:55] Voice 17: of derelict vessels

[2:02:56] Voice 17: in the bay, checking our neighbors' cabins and docks in Winterton. So, I mean, we have

[2:03:06] Voice 17: an act of interest and participation in making the island a good place for us and our neighbors.

[2:03:13] Voice 17: With regards to the proposed dock restrictions, during the March 28, 2002 Island Trust Information

[2:03:21] Voice 17: Study, David Marler, Director of Local Planning Services for Islands Trusts, stated that docks

[2:03:27] Voice 17: are a political decision and regulations don't apply to Gampy Islands Trusts because they are

[2:03:33] Voice 17: not very car access house. This makes sense. In Plumper Cove without road access, unless you go

[2:03:41] Voice 17: to Google Maps, parks are required for residents to access their cabins and homes. Many of these

[2:03:48] Voice 17: large lots, ours is about 11 acres, have more than one residence. Everything that we take onto the

[2:03:57] Voice 17: has to come via boat, barge, and come off our dock and go to cabins, fridges, other large appliances,

[2:04:06] Voice 17: building materials. So you know having a one-size-fits-all dock solution for Keats Island

[2:04:13] Voice 17: does not make sense. There are places on Keats Island that have unprotected areas that do not

[2:04:22] Voice 17: allow for large docks. There are protected parts of Keats Island that allow for larger docks and

[2:04:27] Voice 17: have protected places for vessels to tie up. The foreshore or the requirement for light penetration

[2:04:40] Voice 6: on docks. I would ask to see some signs after the last heat dome that we had in the last year

[2:04:48] Voice 6: where some of that shade actually helped the environment because it didn't allow the

[2:04:53] Voice 17: sea light to cook on the shore that was partially shaded by a dock or a pier.

[2:04:59] Voice 17: And, you know, I think we need to look at these things.

[2:05:02] Voice 17: I know the Painter-Harvard Authentic Plan

[2:05:04] Voice 17: relied on data from Florida.

[2:05:08] Voice 17: Anyways, just to wrap up,

[2:05:10] Voice 17: please limit the new relations to new builds

[2:05:12] Voice 17: on undeserved land only.

[2:05:14] Voice 17: Please appreciate and respect that FANTS,

[2:05:16] Voice 17: the Pathfarm Feeds for Generational Home Keys worked hard

[2:05:21] Voice 17: and will continue to be good stewards of the environment.

[2:05:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): I think we've proven that.

[2:05:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): Thank you very much.

[2:05:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): Thank you very much. So the next name here that I struck out of Maryland, Millay?

[2:05:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): No, I thought it was a sign-in.

[2:05:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay, thank you very much. Jim Murdoch?

[2:05:38] Voice 13: Jim Murdoch, I'm from Andes Beach area in the East Orange states, second generation Keats Islander.

[2:05:44] Voice 13: That is Andy, otherwise he's deceased.

[2:05:48] Voice 13: I've watched in the last seven and a half years of this process as the foreshore is

[2:05:54] Voice 13: being denigrated by the proliferation of docks, I've watched chains being dropped two, three

[2:06:00] Voice 13: hundred feet out into the foreshore.

[2:06:03] Voice 13: There's absolutely no oversight on these processes, the fact that it's complaint driven is also

[2:06:09] Voice 13: difficult to deal with, as many of us have family members on adjacent properties and

[2:06:15] Voice 13: their house.

[2:06:16] Voice 13: I'm concerned about the subjectivity and broadness of the undisturbed versus disturbed lands.

[2:06:23] Voice 13: I would submit that any and all lands on Peets are pretty much disturbed by this point in

[2:06:29] Voice 13: the street.

[2:06:29] Voice 13: I actually have an undisturbed left, but it has impacted greatly by the disturbances around

[2:06:37] Voice 13: it.

[2:06:37] Voice 13: so i would urge you to not include those exemptions about undisturbed land

[2:06:46] Voice 13: there is a lot of road access in our community and i feel that i would love to have a doc

[2:06:55] Voice 13: but i negated doing so to protect the essence of the key science thank you thank you very much

[2:07:05] Voice 13: Jan Hagedorn.

[2:07:08] Voice 7: Hello, I'm Jan Hagedorn and I, since everyone's saying it, my grandchildren are fifth

[2:07:15] Voice 7: generation Catholics and I'm so excited. We're out in the sailing camp right now. Anyway, I just came

[2:07:23] Voice 7: back from Europe, two months over there,

[2:07:27] Voice 2: and oh boy, do I sure appreciate my community on Cates

[2:07:31] Voice 2: in Keats Island and just what a view of the

[2:07:33] Voice 17: province uh wow I just want to say that there's been so many

[2:07:39] Voice 17: good practices and maybe not so good practices by some people and

[2:07:45] Voice 2: I'd like to think that this

[2:07:47] Voice 2: is a framework for the future because after coming back from Europe and probably on some of the four

[2:07:54] Voice 2: shores over there and they have hundreds of years and see what has happened to it in comparison to

[2:08:02] Voice 2: what we have here and with being so close to vancouver it's just so attractive and so beautiful

[2:08:10] Voice 2: and pristine compared to over in europe and what they've done so i'm excited to have something in

[2:08:17] Voice 2: place for the future for for as someone mentioned here to give some guidance for future generations

[2:08:28] Voice 17: you know

[2:08:29] Voice 17: with the recognition that this all that we have right now is grandfathered in

[2:08:34] Voice 17: and that we most of us have done good practices or have tried to so that's that's my desire to

[2:08:44] Voice 17: see the beauty

[2:08:45] Voice 2: of this island continue and so a framework to give guidance to future generations

[2:08:50] Voice 2: is important. I do think that looking at some

[2:08:56] Voice 17: of the concerns around the kinks and the variances

[2:09:00] Voice 7: and lots that were developable and then with this new file it may not be developable or other of

[2:09:08] Voice 7: those fine-tuning things might think you might need to maybe retweet but a simple framework is

[2:09:18] Voice 7: so important and the

[2:09:20] Voice 17: last i do want to say thank you to the process i think it's been a good one

[2:09:25] Voice 17: and um the debate is important and the discussion is important and thank

[2:09:32] Voice 2: you to the trustees and to

[2:09:33] Voice 2: the staff and i do i'm now living on the sunshine coast and did see with the the articles in the

[2:09:41] Voice 2: most reported paper but i i wouldn't have if i didn't haven't moved to gibson's so i'm encouraging

[2:09:51] Voice 2: you know that maybe the suggestion of another

[2:09:56] Voice 17: go at public process on keith's island specifically

[2:10:01] Voice 17: that some people have mentioned might be a good idea because i think it's it's not worth the

[2:10:08] Voice 17: left sounds like seven and a half years and what's another meeting thanks again

[2:10:18] Voice 17: i know

[2:10:20] Voice 17: church college hi trish kelly and uh my family bought their first lot in eastbourne in 1952

[2:10:30] Voice 17: so i'm actually

[2:10:31] Voice 4: a third generation um i also now work on the island as a realtor and that's

[2:10:38] Voice 4: basically of my

[2:10:39] Voice 17: love for the island um i also served on the the uh offshore committee and um

[2:10:47] Voice 15: also saw that we all have very very mixed needs and um there are some things in this that i

[2:10:55] Voice 15: can appreciate and love and i think like most islanders we all love this island and our island

[2:11:02] Voice 15: though is so unique every island is unique but our island i work in old house town and our island is

[2:11:09] Voice 15: extraordinarily unique and our

[2:11:13] Voice 17: community plan and all of our bylaws they were drafted and

[2:11:17] Voice 17: constructed

[2:11:18] Voice 15: out of the needs of our island okay and by changing this by changing our

[2:11:26] Voice 15: bylaws and our expectations is what's going to happen. It's kind of, it should be more of a

[2:11:34] Voice 15: community thing

[2:11:34] Voice 17: because I

[2:11:35] Voice 17: don't think that there was a lot of people that knew about what's going

[2:11:39] Voice 17: on today. Nobody reads the newspaper and posts. Like 90%

[2:11:44] Voice 4: of all the people that are on the island

[2:11:46] Voice 4: come from the mainland. We have two big bulletin

[2:11:51] Voice 15: boards on the island. There wasn't one piece of

[2:11:53] Voice 15: literature of any kind on any of those and um i know working on the island there is a lot of

[2:12:01] Voice 15: people that do not use social media and nobody reads the

[2:12:05] Voice 17: newspaper these days like that's just

[2:12:07] Voice 17: proven it's just not so i say

[2:12:12] Voice 4: we need more input on some of this stuff and the fact that

[2:12:18] Voice 4: our island isn't getting developed anymore it isn't there's already wording in saying that

[2:12:23] Voice 4: if there is any kind of future development it has

[2:12:26] Voice 17: to be done in 10 for

[2:12:27] Voice 15: their 10 acre parcels

[2:12:28] Voice 15: um there are random lots left that nobody's done with but those people they bought those lots with

[2:12:35] Voice 15: the vision the idea and the thing of what they could do with that that was their dream and now

[2:12:42] Voice 15: to change that i think that's

[2:12:45] Voice 4: wrong so

[2:12:46] Voice 17: so i would just thank everybody for this process but i think

[2:12:52] Voice 17: that we need some

[2:12:53] Voice 4: more um so we're in in particular one of the things that i don't like is the fact

[2:12:57] Voice 4: that if there is a natural disaster of some sort or there's a government fire we literally could

[2:13:03] Voice 4: the whole island could go up and then what happens right i have a listing over here where somebody

[2:13:08] Voice 4: lost their whole entire cabin burned to

[2:13:11] Voice 15: the ground it's horrifying to see that property and see

[2:13:13] Voice 15: there's nothing left with it and and now to think that somebody has to go forward with tons and tons

[2:13:19] Voice 4: of more permitting and all that kind of stuff and for you guys to say that that's all you have to do

[2:13:24] Voice 4: is just apply and stuff not so easy it's already so hard to build on the island please don't make

[2:13:31] Voice 4: it so hard and so expensive

[2:13:33] Voice 17: okay thank you um

[2:13:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): kurt shefford hi

[2:13:40] Voice 17: i'm kurt shepherd from bumpers

[2:13:43] Voice 17: just a couple of things. I'll speak up. Thank you.

[2:13:47] Voice 17: I happened to be, this year I went back

[2:13:49] Voice 17: to visit my friends in Virgin Bay. And they have their, and they have their love of that

[2:13:57] Voice 17: area, just as we have our love of Keats Island. And one of the concerns they had there was

[2:14:02] Voice 17: but it basically takes up the cost of changing things

[2:14:09] Voice 17: and there's all the family,

[2:14:12] Voice 17: all the things that have to do with

[2:14:14] Voice 17: their learning, grandchildren, all of that.

[2:14:16] Voice 17: And then it comes down to a project to do entertainment.

[2:14:20] Voice 17: And what happens is it becomes infighting

[2:14:22] Voice 17: and then it comes up and it gets sold.

[2:14:25] Voice 17: For the parents, that's what it gets like.

[2:14:28] Voice 17: And so then it comes to somebody

[2:14:30] Voice 17: from totally outside the community

[2:14:31] Voice 17: with basically Toronto values

[2:14:33] Voice 13: or in our case, Vancouver values.

[2:14:36] Voice 13: So you're going to get something plopped in

[2:14:38] Voice 13: from a subdivision of Vancouver

[2:14:40] Voice 13: because that's something that's on a bulk sum,

[2:14:44] Voice 13: not something that's gone through the generations.

[2:14:48] Voice 13: So by increasing the cost,

[2:14:51] Voice 13: we're doing renovations to add another family

[2:14:53] Voice 13: or another bathroom.

[2:14:55] Voice 13: It has to be reasonable for the existing

[2:14:58] Voice 17: residents there

[2:14:59] Voice 17: to maintain those properties,

[2:15:00] Voice 17: not going through surveyors and as I said bought on surveyors and basically put in a

[2:15:09] Voice 17: statutory right of way which was absorbent and pick up the Sunshine Coast regional visitors

[2:15:15] Voice 17: costs for the legally available to take that and made the two orders on something I'm giving

[2:15:21] Voice 17: be the one. And so surveying is not cheap. I also looked raw. I

[2:15:28] Voice 17: had a environmentalist that joined every meeting.

[2:15:33] Voice 16: For a

[2:15:35] Voice 16: year, basically to read back what Linrow already said. And in

[2:15:40] Voice 16: that case, it was using

[2:15:42] Voice 17: the raw to do land use. It's totally

[2:15:52] Voice 17: So, in this case, you really need to make it simple, and the exemption can be placed

[2:15:57] Voice 17: so that people don't have to go to your apartment plus, a lot of this stuff is already online.

[2:16:04] Voice 17: It should be a simpler process, and so people can take that.

[2:16:08] Voice 17: I don't know if there are a bunch of exemptions or not, but you have to keep it simple.

[2:16:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): Thank you, Kirk.

[2:16:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): So I have Richard and Maureen Jones' names scratched out here.

[2:16:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): I

[2:16:23] Voice 6: did scratch my name out, but I would if I could

[2:16:25] Voice 17: take a minute.

[2:16:26] Voice 17: I'm providing that opportunity.

[2:16:28] Voice 17: Sure.

[2:16:29] Voice 17: As you said, my name is Richard Jones, and I hadn't intended to speak when I came in,

[2:16:34] Voice 17: but I thought hearing these comments, I did want to make an observation perhaps in that

[2:16:40] Voice 17: I used to do a lot of work in mergers and acquisitions, and we had a term called deal

[2:16:45] Voice 17: fatigue.

[2:16:46] Voice 17: and deal fatigue is when you've been at something so long so fed up with it you just settled to get

[2:16:53] Voice 17: it over with and i get that sense i when i hear uh paul milley speaking his brother from another

[2:17:01] Voice 17: mother and saying finish the process take it through to the end don't let deal fatigue make

[2:17:11] Voice 13: make this less than it could be. I hear there are amendments on the table that I don't know

[2:17:20] Voice 13: if they're just being

[2:17:22] Voice 17: cast aside. But I also hear people say there is more time needed

[2:17:26] Voice 17: to do it just right and to get it right. And that takes more time. And I know seven years,

[2:17:34] Voice 17: like I hear you it

[2:17:36] Voice 17: is tiring and everybody sounds tired but I would just say don't don't finish 90%

[2:17:46] Voice 17: finish it thank you thank you Richard um

[2:17:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): Glenn uh Donaldson yes

[2:17:54] Voice 17: thank you I'm Glenn Donaldson

[2:17:59] Voice 17: I'm also a fourth-generationer and an environmentalist, so I'm not a professional, I just love trees

[2:18:07] Voice 17: and nature and things like that, and we're trying to preserve those things and applaud

[2:18:14] Voice 17: many of the things that are done, and Dan and his group have done good stuff trying

[2:18:20] Voice 17: to preserve nature and all that's great.

[2:18:21] Voice 17: I'm not saying anything that we shouldn't preserve nature.

[2:18:27] Voice 17: That's not the thrust of my comments.

[2:18:30] Voice 17: Nor am I unappreciative of the work that

[2:18:34] Voice 17: Island Trust does, and you do a lot of good work.

[2:18:38] Voice 17: A lot of it's, you know, you take some arrows

[2:18:41] Voice 17: and you have to dig deep and attend meetings

[2:18:43] Voice 17: and all these kinds of things.

[2:18:44] Voice 17: That's all very much appreciated.

[2:18:46] Voice 17: But the problem is there are still some things

[2:18:49] Voice 17: that issue with these bylaws

[2:18:50] Voice 17: That I don't think are good for the community. And I think those things needs to be addressed. It's not fully based. I know it's seven years, but

[2:19:00] Voice 17: I'm not counting the clock. I'm counting the product. Okay, that product needs adjusting in my view.

[2:19:07] Voice 17: But one of the letters that you read out when you read at the beginning, when you read the submissions that I've written one of those. So I'm not

[2:19:14] Voice 17: but the first thing is this democratic process needs more time to unfold i've said this in my

[2:19:23] Voice 17: questions before you need a big public hearing where everybody feels that they can attend

[2:19:27] Voice 17: and so they can have their voices heard that's important for the legitimate legitimacy of the

[2:19:33] Voice 17: process and for the respectableness of the community and i know that you feel respectful

[2:19:38] Voice 17: towards the community and it would be a shame that people didn't sense that as well secondly

[2:19:45] Voice 17: I'm concerned about practical application of the bylaws so as I said in my in my submission

[2:19:53] Voice 17: many of many of us me and my neighbors have very small lots these are not city lots

[2:19:58] Voice 17: they are very small they are close together and the legal access is from the seat so if you look

[2:20:06] Voice 17: at the way the lots are zoned they're legally accessed from the seat so anything that we do to

[2:20:10] Voice 17: prevent legal access and egress from a lot, it doesn't seem that we should be able to do those

[2:20:16] Voice 17: kinds of things. So there are some lots that are close enough to neighbors, especially when the

[2:20:21] Voice 17: land undulates. It's not a straight line. It's close like it was in and out. You could have a

[2:20:26] Voice 17: neighbor on either side of you in a harbor, and you can basically get squeezed out, not allowed

[2:20:30] Voice 17: to have a dog if the setbacks are not reasonable. And in some cases, it could be that someone comes

[2:20:35] Voice 17: along, you just can't have a dog. How do you tell a person you're not legally allowed to access the

[2:20:39] Voice 17: a lot. That doesn't make sense. Fourth, we need exemptions for repairs. The stories that you heard

[2:20:48] Voice 17: from Murray and Antrim Graham are both completely legitimate. You can have a big lot come along and

[2:20:53] Voice 17: take out one of the supports of your doctor or whatever, and all you're trying to do is put back

[2:20:58] Voice 17: what was there. There has to be a different process for that than a complete greenfield

[2:21:04] Voice 17: field development. Okay. I think all of those things need to be considered. And I think

[2:21:10] Voice 17: the bylaws probably need to be amended to account for these kinds of issues. Thank you

[2:21:14] Voice 17: for your time.

[2:21:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): Thank you, sir. That reaches the end of my speaker's list. And we can certainly hear

[2:21:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): from people that haven't spoken that whose name is not on the list. But I just want to

[2:21:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): take this moment to say, if you brought something in writing that you want to submit today,

[2:21:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): or you filled out one of those sheets

[2:21:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): or have some other notes that you've made

[2:21:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): that you'd like us to consider,

[2:21:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): now would be the time to ensure

[2:21:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): that it ends up with our legislative clerk

[2:21:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): in that little box there.

[2:21:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): And so please do that.

[2:21:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): And otherwise, is there anybody else

[2:21:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): that wishes to address the local trust committee today?

[2:21:52] Trustee Luckham (probable): I'm officially now calling a first time.

[2:21:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): Anybody wish to address the local trust committee

[2:21:59] Voice 17: early in

[2:21:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): time or not?

[2:22:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): Yeah.

[2:22:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): yeah i mean very

[2:22:02] Voice 17: briefly or is that i don't want to compete your process dan

[2:22:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): if you want to speak

[2:22:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): to the lpc go ahead i i i just want to say um and i've heard everybody and i understand the

[2:22:14] the concerns um my experience being a trustee and being on what trust

[2:22:21] Voice 14: means is you get to the end of

[2:22:22] Voice 14: the process they will always be people who there will always be concerns that are still out there

[2:22:27] Voice 14: there um so and i appreciate all of those legitimate people feel very strongly about it

[2:22:33] Voice 14: all i'd urge you to do is not let the pursuit of perfection get in the way of doing good

[2:22:39] Voice 14: um and you know it's it's it's a trap that it's it's easy to fall into is people is that you

[2:22:48] Voice 14: want to make it better and better and better and better and you never get to the end of the process

[2:22:53] Voice 14: So that's all I really wanted to get into.

[2:22:55] Voice 16: Thank you.

[2:22:56] Voice 16: So I'm going to call Rob Bentall.

[2:23:00] Voice 16: Hello, Rob.

[2:23:01] Voice 16: I'm on Keats Landing and was the founder of Warnibus.

[2:23:06] Voice 16: For many years, I've desired to see Keats' community get stronger

[2:23:10] Voice 16: and be more together with differences in the past.

[2:23:14] And I think we're at a juncture now where we could lose some of that momentum.

[2:23:19] And I would encourage you to consider just taking a break

[2:23:23] and getting some more

[2:23:24] Voice 16: involvement from the community

[2:23:25] Voice 16: so we can maintain that strong bond of unity within the community.

[2:23:31] Voice 16: Thank you, Ralph, for that message.

[2:23:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): I'm going to call a second time.

[2:23:37] Voice 17: One more point.

[2:23:38] Voice 17: I mean, one of the things you say you can regulate

[2:23:42] Voice 17: or provide protection to 100-meter dogs, sure.

[2:23:47] Voice 17: One thing I've never heard any of the out of stress bring up

[2:23:50] Voice 17: is in areas like Pumper's Cove where there's boats that come and anchor for weeks on end in the bay,

[2:23:58] Voice 17: nobody's put forward any recommendations about, you know, creating no discharge zones in these

[2:24:04] Voice 17: expensive areas of Howe Sound, including Pumper's Cove. And I would like you to add that to your mandate to

[2:24:13] Voice 17: to push, especially the Ministry of Parks to declare the Pumper Cove areas a no-discharge zone and other

[2:24:20] Voice 17: sense the errors and how it sounds with the same frequency it's

[2:24:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): angry thank you um there's an

[2:24:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): opportunity for trustees to ask speakers questions and i would just say um i would suggest that you

[2:24:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): consider looking at provincial regulation regarding safe discharge and indeed there are safe discharge

[2:24:44] Trustee Luckham (probable): the elements just have been involved in but just ask you to consider that but thank you for that

[2:24:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): message because that's a really good message i'm going to call a third time any other speakers

[2:24:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): today that wish to address the local trust committee on bylaws number 153 and 154. that's

[2:25:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): where i get to wait it's always time so i'm not seeing any indication of further speakers so i

[2:25:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): want to thank you for joining us today um and speaking to us and and letting us know your very

[2:25:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): heartfelt uh concerns with these bylaws and we have heard and we will be considering them there

[2:25:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): are a couple is that it a couple of submissions here which we are just going to pause now and uh

[2:25:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): take the time to read these through um and we will then close this uh public hearing process

[2:25:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): and we will go back into our meeting to determine what further actions we may undertake so i'm going

[2:25:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): I pass that one along and I'm going to read this one and then I'll pass it along and we can just

[2:25:52] Trustee Luckham (probable): rotate and

[2:25:54] Voice 8: they tell me to turn the microphone off but I'm glad we do that so let's return

[2:27:58] Voice 8: to order here and

[2:28:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): so can I get your attention thank you so we'll now proceed to close the

[2:28:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): public hearing please note that after this public hearing closes that the local trust committee will

[2:28:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): no longer be able to receive public submissions prior to making a decision i would like to add

[2:28:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): here if you have something really critical you can certainly provide that to staff staff can

[2:28:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): determine whether or not it's important to disrupt the process that it needs to be brought to our

[2:28:29] Trustee Luckham (probable): attention and indeed they would disrupt the process so it's not that the door is completely

[2:28:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): closed but certainly you can't have discussions with the local trust committee or yourself or

[2:28:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): sending emails or anything of the sort in that unless we change determined to change the process

[2:28:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): so um unless there's any other speakers i'm going to close this public hearing and thank you very

[2:28:52] Trustee Luckham (probable): much for your uh time here today and um making sure i've covered all the points here and we have

[2:29:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): uh read all the and you can't all the uh the documents in the um the book and we're all

[2:29:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): content with that process we've reviewed the most recent submissions all right so let us then uh we

[2:29:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): can turn to the public meeting uh kate louise stafford i

[2:29:23] Voice 4: just want to make a little statement

[2:29:25] Voice 4: about the public hearing i really want to thank you for all your clients i know it's very hard to

[2:29:30] Voice 4: stand up in front of your community and your neighbor and say things that may not be totally

[2:29:36] Voice 4: popular or it's just difficult to speak period this is a big group and I really do listen I do

[2:29:45] Voice 4: hear and the nature of public hearings is it's awkward and it can seem to be confrontational

[2:29:53] Voice 4: it's really the failings of

[2:29:56] Voice 4: the public hearing process this is just one small

[2:30:00] Voice 4: part of the whole process of looking at bylaws

[2:30:05] Voice 4: and how they're changed,

[2:30:06] Voice 4: but I really do appreciate the courage it takes

[2:30:10] Voice 4: to come here and speak and make your voice heard.

[2:30:13] Voice 4: And I do.

[2:30:14] Voice 4: So I just want to thank you all.

[2:30:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay, very good.

[2:30:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): Thank you for that.

[2:30:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): So this brings us to section four

[2:30:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): of our agenda local committee projects.

[2:30:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): And we have for bylaw number 153 and 154 staff report.

[2:30:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): And certainly there's a number of recommendations there, some of which include amendments that

[2:30:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): are necessary as considered minor administrative and typographical.

[2:30:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): But there's also opportunities there that are suggested that we might choose to advance.

[2:30:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): You may want to consider that you want more time to reflect on this at a future meeting.

[2:30:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): And so none of this is written in stone.

[2:30:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): So does staff want to make any remarks associated with the report?

[2:31:00] Planner (probable): I don't think so.

[2:31:01] Planner (probable): So I kind of covered it in my presentation, just that these are, yeah, very minor.

[2:31:06] Planner (probable): If there's any questions that anyone has, we can, I can answer those now.

[2:31:12] Planner (probable): And just, yeah, depending on the process, just making sure that the trustees are really

[2:31:17] Planner (probable): clear on the post-public hearing process.

[2:31:20] Planner (probable): So the longer the time goes in between readings, then we're just in a very sensitive period

[2:31:25] Planner (probable): now.

[2:31:25] Planner (probable): So if there was any questions that the trustees had about this particular time, then I'd be

[2:31:30] Planner (probable): happy to answer that this month okay so trustees

[2:31:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): what's um your platform what would you like to do

[2:31:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): at this point well

[2:31:39] Voice 17: um like this to do nothing um because the looking at the memo with respect to

[2:31:48] Voice 17: this part of the meeting uh dealing with the easy part first the uh incidental amendments that the

[2:31:55] Voice 17: staff has prepared. They look not controversial, but I'm not sure. I need to read them more closely

[2:32:04] Voice 17: to have a sense of what their actual significance is. More importantly, I

[2:32:10] Voice 14: can't agree with the

[2:32:11] Voice 14: recommendation that we simply, after hearing all these remarks, proceed to pass the bylaws

[2:32:16] Voice 14: and move them along. No, we as a thinking committee have to take the time to deliberate

[2:32:23] Voice 14: and consider these submissions so uh i would

[2:32:26] Voice 17: suggest that we simply defer consideration of

[2:32:29] Voice 17: everything that's in that mo uh until the next regular meeting okay okay

[2:32:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): okay um i i didn't

[2:32:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): quite get that as a motion but if that is a motion when when is the next regular meeting

[2:32:44] Trustee Luckham (probable): destroyed until you know october 1st um so yeah yeah the

[2:32:50] Voice 14: next waiting is

[2:32:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): october the first yeah

[2:32:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): so um could you just formulate that as a motion just for the records i moved that

[2:32:58] Voice 14: okay i moved

[2:32:59] Voice 14: that uh for the consideration of these bylaws uh in any respect being deferred to the next

[2:33:05] Voice 14: rate of the meeting against the custody okay

[2:33:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): bylaws numbers 153 and 154 if you don't mind

[2:33:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): of just divide the primary amendment um it is a formal process and so little danny was second

[2:33:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): to benjamin stanford excellent and uh um i agree um we should definitely consider this so i'll call

[2:33:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): the vote all those in favor that carries um so further to that is there any other uh direction

[2:33:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): you'd like to provide staff with respect to preparation for the next meeting um in order

[2:33:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): to facilitate this conversation now

[2:33:36] Voice 14: at this time personally i just need time to digest what i've

[2:33:39] Voice 14: today before i can even talk to staff about the forces i mentioned before i need to go to them

[2:33:44] Voice 14: and

[2:33:44] Voice 4: just to add please don't speak to joe can't add more information

[2:33:51] Voice 4: he's now persona non-drata in terms of this i

[2:33:55] Voice 17: thought it was already i thought it was

[2:33:59] Voice 17: only

[2:33:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): on that one and i'm going to say that don't talk to gabriel stafford yeah i will

[2:34:04] Voice 4: you guys are okay you can talk to me about others and i

[2:34:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): never listened so

[2:34:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): okay so we do have one further item of business here today at 4.2 which we added earlier in the

[2:34:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): agenda was a recommended a recommendation from staff with the defense who are meeting that we

[2:34:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): have yesterday associated with the gambia ocp and um you assist us with either getting that

[2:34:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): on the screen or i would facilitate you reading that recommended motion out and then i would ask

[2:34:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): for trustee to move it secondly sure

[2:34:36] Planner (probable): do you want me to put it on the screen or just read it out

[2:34:37] Planner (probable): just read it out uh that the gambier island local uh the gambier island local trust committee

[2:34:44] Planner (probable): requests staff to draft a business case for the 2025-26 fiscal year focusing on the

[2:34:50] Planner (probable): conclusive phase of the ocp luv project specifically a comprehensive legal review

[2:34:55] Planner (probable): and legislative process for subsequent consideration by the lgc so

[2:35:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): it's moved by

[2:35:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): i i will

[2:35:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): do that okay and do i have a second i second your bernardo thank you any discussion

[2:35:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): it's a long time that's what i'm going to say until the next bite yeah it's not

[2:35:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): i guess the whole it is it is in human time it's a long time but we as i understand

[2:35:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): so i'm going to call the vote if there's no other concerns all those in favor that carries

[2:35:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): is um just before i i guess i have responsibility process right as chair and i can't help but reflect

[2:35:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): that our conversations at the next meeting with regards to the keats permit process may have

[2:35:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): potential financial implications for a future budget

[2:35:52] Voice 9: and

[2:35:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): what consideration amassing staff

[2:35:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): should we consider with respect to that or do we have enough in place to facilitate this going

[2:36:03] Trustee Luckham (probable): through to next year there's no budget left in this it's been a minor project remember

[2:36:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): so it's considered a minor project and would continue to be funded in the way

[2:36:16] Planner (probable): that we would

[2:36:16] Planner (probable): have to request for funding as of the last request it was

[2:36:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): actually the end of so indeed we should

[2:36:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): have another business case to support the continuation of this process it wouldn't

[2:36:30] Planner (probable): doesn't need a business case in the same way that major projects do but if there is a request for

[2:36:35] Planner (probable): funding that's under five thousand dollars and that

[2:36:37] Planner (probable): request would go forward to director of

[2:36:40] Planner (probable): planning and so

[2:36:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): we don't need to take any special action that's what you're saying if there's no

[2:36:46] Planner (probable): no

[2:36:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): further. And I think that Joe, that's great. So then in that case, then there's no further

[2:36:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): business today. Our next meeting is October the 1st. And that location is going to be

[2:37:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): electronically. So please join us electronically and see what we've determined. I appreciate

[2:37:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): everything you've talked about today. Very much so. I'll call for adjournment. All those in favor?

[2:37:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): okay thank you everyone have a nice

[2:37:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): day have a nice summer yeah thank you everybody

ADOPTED 
  
Gambier Island ADOPTED  1 
Local Trust Committee Special Meeting Minutes 
July 31, 2024 
 
Gambier Island Local Trust Committee 
Minutes of Special Meeting 
 
Date:  
Location:  
July 31, 2024 
Gibsons Public Market 
473 Gower Point Road 
Gibsons, BC 
 
Members Present: Peter Luckham, Chair 
 Kate-Louise Stamford, Trustee 
 Joe Bernardo, Trustee 
  
Staff Present Nadine Mourao, Legislative Clerk / Deputy Secretary 
 Marlis McCargar, Island Planner 
 Lisa Millard, Recorder 
  
Others Present: There were approximately 28 members of the public in attendance. 
 
1. CALL TO ORDER 
Chair Luckham called the meeting to order at 10:03 a.m. He acknowledged that the meeting was 
held on the territory of the Coast Salish First Nations. 
2. COMMUNITY INFORMATION MEETING - Proposed Bylaw Nos. 153 and 154 - Keats Shoreline 
Protection Project 
The following additions to the agenda were presented for consideration: 
 4.2 Business Case for Official Community Plan Project 
By general consent the agenda was approved as amended. 
2.1 Planner Presentation 
Planner provided a presentation and highlighted the following: 
 Goal is to help members of the public determine if their interests are affected by the 
proposed bylaws; 
 Provided a summary of the work to date including Community Information 
Meetings, amendments to the proposed bylaws, and referrals to agencies, non-
agencies, and First Nations; 
 Outlined factors in the Local Trust Committee’s decision-making process; 
 Summarized proposed Bylaw Nos. 153 and 154; 
 Pointed to edits to the dock sharing regulation and deletion of Section 9.3.4(b); and 
 Outlined next steps. 

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2.2 Proposed Bylaw Nos. 153 and 154 
Planner summarized proposed Bylaw No. 153 and noted the following: 
 Proposed Bylaw to amend the Official Community Plan; 
 Establishes a Shoreline Development Permit Area 3 (DP-3) for purpose of protecting 
the natural environment and protecting development from hazardous conditions; 
 Setback area extends upland 15 metres from natural boundary of the sea and 100 
metres seaward from natural boundary of the sea; and 
 Plumper Cover Provincial Park and areas zoned Marine Conservation are excluded. 
 
Planner summarized proposed Bylaw No. 154 and noted the following: 
 Proposed Bylaw to amend the Land Use Bylaw; 
 Regulates permitted structures within the setback area to a maximum size of 5 
square metres plus one set of stairs or walkway for purpose of accessing the 
foreshore or permitted marine structure; 
 Increases setback between private floats and docks from side lot lines and from 
adjacent private floats and docks; 
 Reduces maximum float area of private and shared docks; and 
 New Shoreline Development Permit Area 3 (DP-3) restricts what a landowner is 
permitted to do on land within the Development Permit Area (DPA), outlines 
exemptions from DPA requirements, and provides guidelines for receiving a permit. 
 
Planner stated that the Local Trust Committee cannot consider any new information or 
public submissions after the Public Hearing closes and members of the public were 
invited to ask any technical questions directly related to the proposed bylaws prior to 
the start of the Public Hearing.  
 
The following questions and answers were noted: 
 
 Question: Why are the bylaw changes being made, what is the issue the bylaw is 
trying to solve, and where have any concerns come from? 
o Planner answered the project was initiated in 2017 due to concerns about a 
proliferation of docks on Keats Island and a desire to protect the foreshore. A 
working group was formed at that time to help guide the project. 
o Chair noted concerns originated from members of the public on Keats Island 
and throughout the Islands Trust Area. Dock structures impact natural marine 
habitat and shoreline erosion, and shoreline infrastructure potentially 
contributes to degradation of marine environment. 
 
 Question: Requested clarification of setback measurements. 
o Planner replied Development Permit Area setback from the sea will remain at 
15 metres inland and the proposed bylaw will not change the building setback 
from 7.5 metres. 
o Exemptions in the proposed bylaw would be reviewed on a case-by-case basis 
to determine if a permit is necessary. 
 
 Question: Is the measurement done along the surface of the land or horizontally 
from the tideline? 

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Local Trust Committee Special Meeting Minutes 
July 31, 2024 
o Chair stated, if a cliff is vertical, the 15 metre measurement starts from high 
water mark and goes up, which might result in several metres of airspace being 
included in the setback. 
o Trustee noted building within the setback area is not disallowed, but a 
development permit would be required to do so. 
 
 Question: What are the costs associated with a survey and an environmental 
assessment and how does the Local Trust Committee decides if a permit will be 
issued? 
o Planner noted that costs include the development permit application fee, costs 
of environmental and other assessments are established by the qualified 
professionals that perform the work, and decision of whether to issue a permit 
a non-discretionary decision made by the LTC based on the DPA guidelines. 
 
 Question: If someone wants to build a bedroom extension onto their cabin in the 
area within the 7.5 to 15 metre setback and that area is made up of fill held up by 
rock walls, are they required to hire an environmental professional to determine if 
any species are at risk, do a survey, and pay the development permit application 
fee? 
o Planner noted that they would require a development permit to do an addition. 
Staff would review the guidelines to determine whether a development permit 
is necessary and, in the absence of a Development Approval Information Bylaw, 
would ask the Local Trust Committee if a survey is required or not.  
o Chair noted that hand drawn sketches, rather than surveys, are often received 
and, while the Local Trust Committee can request a survey, they cannot demand 
one. Often, it is in the applicant’s best interests to provide a survey unless it is 
obvious that the natural environment will not be impacted. 
 
 Question: Does the dock-sharing language apply to existing docks or only new ones? 
o Planner stated the regulations would not be retroactively applied unless 
changes are made to an existing structure. 
 
 Question: Does one require permission to install a mooring buoy? 
o Planner replied the installation of a mooring buoy an exempted activity. 
 
 Question: Will current owners of undeveloped lots be required to build further back 
on their lots than where owners of adjacent lots have built or will there be a 
variance allowing setbacks similar to other neighbouring properties? 
o Planner replied building setbacks would be subject to the bylaw and the 
property owner could apply for a variance. 
 
 Question: Foreshore lease renews every ten years, will the existing dock be affected 
by the foreshore lease renewal? 
o Planner replied if no changes are made to the existing dock a development 
permit is not required. 
 
 Several members of the public spoke to the meeting date and time and indicated 
that many residents cannot attend on a Wednesday morning. Residents live on the 

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Local Trust Committee Special Meeting Minutes 
July 31, 2024 
mainland or Keats Island and not Gibsons, and residents were promised a summer 
meeting on Keats Island at a time when most would be able to attend. 
o Planner and Trustees replied that meeting date and time was scheduled based 
on availability of Trustees and staff and efforts were made to schedule the 
meeting on Keats Island, but no venues were available due to the busy summer 
season. 
 
 Question: Throughout this process, the Local Trust Committee has applied examples 
of Green Shores principles in the Crown foreshore and most of these principles were 
developed for lakes rather than high tides. Why do the bylaws say one thing while 
the Local Trust Committee provides solutions below the vegetation line? 
o Planner and Trustees noted there isn’t anything specifically related to Green 
Shores in the proposed bylaw. 
o Chair clarified that Green Shores started in Puget Sound and was about the 
removal of shoreline armouring in favour of softer marine shoreline protection 
techniques. 
 
 Question: Why isn’t there a way to participate in the hearing online? 
o Chair noted written and in-person submissions are the established mechanism 
for a public hearing. 
 
 Question: What did Trustee Bernardo mean when he said there was a lot of 
pressure to get this done and is there pressure to implement the bylaw right after 
the meeting? 
o Trustee Bernardo replied that the Local Trust Committee has worked through 
the elements of the bylaw, he has often delayed the process to introduce 
amendments, has consistently heard it is time to have a public hearing, and he 
will be seeking time to consider public comments before moving to next steps. 
 
 Question: Based on the Canada Constitution, the jurisdiction of the water, which 
includes buoys, docks, ramps and piers, is Federal. What legislation gives Islands 
Trust jurisdiction 100 feet into the foreshore area? 
o Trustee noted when the Crown Colony of BC came into Canada as a province it 
had jurisdiction over the sea bottom from the mainland to Vancouver Island and 
the Land Act and other Local Government Acts give Islands Trust jurisdiction 
over land use planning. 
 
 Question: How will the bylaws be enforced if they are passed? 
o Chair replied enforcement is not proactive. If a complaint is received, an 
investigation is conducted to determine if there is a contravention, and, if there 
is, then bylaw compliance and enforcement processes are undertaken. 
 
 Question: Does one need a permit to do a repair on a small portion of a house that 
is within the 15metre setback area? 
o Planner noted repairs and maintenance are exempt. 
 
 Why are mooring buoys preferred when mooring chains drag on the ocean floor 
causing damage, yet a dock is stationary and creates marine habitat? 

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Local Trust Committee Special Meeting Minutes 
July 31, 2024 
o Chair replied a mooring buoy chain should use a midwater float to keep the 
chain above the sea bottom and docks have been shown to cause erosion. 
 
 Question: What studies indicate that docks encourage erosion? 
o Planner indicated that all of the project information and reference materials are 
located on the website. 
 
 Question: Why are all dock owners being put into the same category when there are 
many different sized docks and boats? 
o Planner indicated a dock owner can apply for a variance. 
 
 Question: This process feels like it is being rushed. How can the process be paused 
so it can be done properly when more people can attend? 
o Trustees noted that the process has been ongoing for seven years, there have 
been multiple Community Information Meetings and that they did try to 
schedule the Public Hearing on Keats Island but no dates were available. 
 
 Question: If an existing structure is destroyed due to a natural disaster, can a 
property owner rebuild on the previous footprint or would they need a 
development permit? 
o Chair noted that, if the foundation is remaining, there is potential to rebuild but 
an assessment would be required. 
 
 Question: Is the Local Trust Committee open to amending or changing the proposed 
bylaws. 
o Chair replied ‘yes.’ 
 
 Question: Are there published peer reviewed scientific research studies that state 
setbacks need to be 15 metres from the water? 
o Chair replied staff relies on reports from qualified professionals. 
3. PUBLIC HEARING - BYLAW NOS. 153 and 154 
Bylaw No. 153 (Official Community Plan) and Bylaw No. 154 (Land Use Bylaw) 
3.1 Recess for Public Hearing 
  The meeting was recessed at 11:30 a.m. 
3.2 Recall to Order  
  The meeting was recalled to order at 12:32 p.m. 
4. LOCAL COMMITTEE PROJECTS 
4.1 Proposed Bylaw Nos. 153 and 154 - Post Public Hearing Staff Report 
Planner noted minor amendments to the proposed bylaws included edits for clarity, 
changes to the dock sharing regulation, and deletion of Section 9.3.4(b). 
 
Trustees indicated that time is required to review the amendments and consider the 
submissions. 

ADOPTED 
  
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Local Trust Committee Special Meeting Minutes 
July 31, 2024 
GM-2024-033 
It was MOVED and SECONDED  
that further consideration of Bylaws No. 153 and No. 154 be deferred to the October 1, 
2024 Local Trust Committee meeting. 
 
CARRIED 
 
4.2  Business Case for Official Community Plan Project 
  GM-2024-034 
  It was MOVED and SECONDED 
that the Gambier Island Local Trust Committee requests staff to draft a business case for 
the 2025/26 fiscal year, focusing on the conclusive phase of the Official Community 
Plan/Land Use Bylaw project—specifically, a comprehensive legal review and legislative 
process—for subsequent consideration by the Local Trust Committee. 
 
CARRIED 
 
5. ADJOURNMENT 
By general consent the meeting was adjourned at 12:40 p.m. 
 
 
_________________________ 
Peter Luckham, Chair 
 
Certified Correct: 
 
 
_____________________________________ 
Lisa Millard, Meeting Administrator/Recorder