Islands Trust Financial Planning Committee regular meeting, August 28, 2024

[0:00:00] Voice 1: Lastly, I will start the webinar.

[0:00:02] Voice 1: Good morning, everyone.

[0:00:04] Voice 1: And we are now live.

[0:00:06] Voice 14: Good morning, everybody.

[0:00:08] Voice 14: This is the scheduled Wednesday, August 28th, 2024 meeting of the Financial Planning Committee.

[0:00:15] Voice 14: And I'm now calling the meeting to order.

[0:00:19] Voice 14: Before we proceed any further, I'd like to acknowledge that all of us are privileged to work and live in islands and waters

[0:00:26] Voice 14: that have been home for Indigenous peoples for millennia upon millennia.

[0:00:32] Voice 14: our work as trustees is to protect to preserve and protect those same waters and lands and in doing

[0:00:37] Voice 14: that important task we're committed as an organization to making reconciliation a reality

[0:00:44] Voice 14: in the trust area uh now i would like to turn the group's attention to the agenda um this uh

[0:00:56] Voice 14: this is the occasion to review the agenda and to consider any changes that we wish to make

[0:01:01] Voice 14: to it do any trustees or staff have any input or suggestions with respect to to reviewing or

[0:01:11] Voice 14: making changes to the agenda let's see trustee bowman has her hand up trustee bowling i just

[0:01:19] Voice 4: want to make sure i did read the agenda and i know from the last meeting we had extensive discussions

[0:01:25] Voice 4: about the guidelines that we might develop but is it explicitly in the agenda or is it buried under

[0:01:33] Voice 4: under the general discussion of budget assumptions and principles?

[0:01:38] Voice 14: It's the list of budget assumptions, guidelines, that sort of thing, principles.

[0:01:45] Voice 14: I believe, you know, if you go through that list, you'll see some of the suggestions.

[0:01:50] Voice 14: We haven't had guidelines before, and you'll see that there's some suggestions in there.

[0:01:54] Voice 14: So it's embedded in that discussion.

[0:01:58] Voice 14: So that may well be the bigger discussion we have today.

[0:02:01] Voice 14: Okay.

[0:02:02] Voice 4: I just remember that Julia made it clear that the guidelines were separate

[0:02:09] Voice 4: from the assumptions and principles, so I just wanted to be sure that we would cover those.

[0:02:14] Voice 4: Thanks.

[0:02:15] Voice 14: Yep. We will definitely do that. Any other comments, thoughts? Not hearing any,

[0:02:24] Voice 14: I'm going to take that the agenda is approved by general consent. If we could just move the agenda

[0:02:30] Voice 14: to forward a bit, please, on the screen.

[0:02:36] Voice 14: And this is the opportunity for members of the public

[0:02:40] Voice 14: to make brief comments if they have any.

[0:02:41] Voice 14: Is there anybody there in the public that wishes to make a comment?

[0:02:47] Voice 1: There is no member of the public in attendance at the moment.

[0:02:52] Voice 14: Thank you.

[0:02:52] Voice 14: And we don't have any allegations or correspondence,

[0:02:54] Voice 14: so we can move on to the administrative coordination aspect,

[0:02:58] Voice 14: which is another word for housekeeping.

[0:03:02] Voice 14: We have the draft minutes from the last meeting.

[0:03:05] Voice 14: they're here for our review and approval do we have uh any trustees have any comments about the

[0:03:10] Voice 14: um uh about the uh the draft minutes so i take it we've all read them assiduously and we've

[0:03:22] Voice 14: compared them to our highly detailed notes and we're satisfied that the uh the minutes are uh

[0:03:28] Voice 14: fairly represent the transactions of the last meeting and so uh i take it that since no one

[0:03:34] Voice 14: is objecting or commenting that the minutes from the last meeting have been approved uh

[0:03:39] Voice 14: by general consent by this committee.

[0:03:43] Voice 4: I just want to comment that they are very good, in fact.

[0:03:46] Voice 4: I thought they were a good reflection.

[0:03:48] Voice 4: Thank you.

[0:03:49] Voice 14: Thank you for that.

[0:03:51] Voice 14: And staff, please take that as a compliment and well-deserved.

[0:03:56] Voice 14: The other items in the housekeeping are to review

[0:04:00] Voice 14: and consider resolutions about meeting,

[0:04:02] Voice 14: and then we've got the follow-up action list.

[0:04:05] Voice 14: Well, we don't have any resolutions without meeting,

[0:04:08] Voice 14: and i don't propose to go through the follow-up action list unless there is any trustee wants to

[0:04:15] Voice 14: identify or discuss any specific items nope let's move along right down to the uh to to the guts of

[0:04:28] Voice 14: the thing which is the actual business that we want to deal with which is principally what we're

[0:04:34] Voice 14: going to be referring to uh trust council for the upcoming trust council meeting and um what the

[0:04:39] Voice 14: The first item we have here, 7.1, is a request for decision with respect to the Statement of Financial Information.

[0:04:47] Voice 14: And Julie Mobs, interim CAO and still our money genius, is going to introduce that to us.

[0:04:57] Voice 14: This

[0:05:01] Voice 6: is the Statement of Financial Information before the committee again.

[0:05:04] Voice 6: It's a standard annual report.

[0:05:06] Voice 6: It's considered an associated financial report to the audited financial statement.

[0:05:10] Voice 6: We prepare this report in accordance with the Financial Information Act,

[0:05:15] Voice 6: so the requirements of the report and the format of the report are dictated for us.

[0:05:19] Voice 6: The report's due six months from year end, so for us that's the end of September,

[0:05:23] Voice 6: and we are well within that timeline, and we'll be submitting this to the Ministry by the deadline

[0:05:28] Voice 6: once it's been approved by Trust Council.

[0:05:30] Voice 6: I can walk the committee through the report very briefly, if you wish.

[0:05:34] Voice 14: Could you please?

[0:05:37] Voice 6: Happy to.

[0:05:38] Voice 6: page 14 of the agenda is the cover page of the report it's simply an approval page so once just

[0:05:45] Voice 6: council's approved the report we'll be putting the chair's signature there you'll notice the

[0:05:49] Voice 6: logo is a bit wonky in the version of the report in the agenda we'll be fixing that before it

[0:05:54] Voice 6: travels on to the trust council and the minister so page 15 of the agenda package second page of

[0:05:59] Voice 6: the sophie report it's simply a note that indicates these financial statements are the

[0:06:03] Voice 6: the management's responsibility, and I'll be signing off on behalf of the trust at the bottom

[0:06:07] Voice 6: of that page. The next page is a schedule of guarantee and indemnity agreements and a statement

[0:06:13] Voice 6: of severance agreements. We're required to acknowledge if we have any such agreements

[0:06:17] Voice 6: at Islands Trust, which we do not, and so we simply state that. The next page is a schedule

[0:06:23] Voice 6: of remuneration and expenses for trustees. So this, again, is part of a requirement. We need

[0:06:27] Voice 6: to be listing amounts paid to trustees for remuneration and benefits as well as expenses

[0:06:32] Voice 6: is paid on their behalf. And we've noted this in this report. Thanks to Trustee Boland, who has

[0:06:37] Voice 6: pointed out an error on this report, which indicates that Laura Patrick is the vice chair.

[0:06:42] Voice 6: So we'll be correcting that before this report travels to Trust Council and then the minister.

[0:06:47] Voice 6: The next page of the report is a schedule of remuneration and expenses for employees. So in

[0:06:52] Voice 6: the same way we're required to report out on trustees, we do the same for staff. The guidance

[0:06:57] Voice 6: it says that we must report out on staff who earn $75,000 or more in the year or who are paid

[0:07:02] Voice 6: $75,000 or more in the year. And so we've reflected those amounts here as well as any expenses paid

[0:07:08] Voice 6: for related staff. The next page of the report is a reconciliation of employee payments to the

[0:07:16] Voice 6: financial statement. So the financial statements and the statement of financial information,

[0:07:20] Voice 6: the numbers do not agree and they never will. And it's appropriate that they don't. There's a number

[0:07:25] Voice 6: of reasons that they don't agree and we're required to state what those

[0:07:29] Voice 6: reasons are as part of the Financial Information Act guidance. So in our

[0:07:32] Voice 6: context they don't agree because the SOFI report is prepared on a cash basis

[0:07:37] Voice 6: so amounts that are actually paid to staff whereas the audited financial

[0:07:40] Voice 6: statements are prepared on an accrual basis and therefore may include amounts

[0:07:44] Voice 6: that have not been paid. The statement of financial information also includes

[0:07:49] Voice 6: unused vacation payouts and taxable benefits only whereas the financial

[0:07:53] Voice 6: statements also include any employer-related costs such as payments for CPP, EI, employer health tax,

[0:08:01] Voice 6: etc. The next page of the report is a schedule of payments to suppliers. We are required to list

[0:08:09] Voice 6: which suppliers we've paid more than $25,000 to in the year, and so we've included that information

[0:08:16] Voice 6: here. The next page of the report, again, is reconciling why the statement of payments to

[0:08:24] Voice 6: two vendors may not agree to the financial statements. Again, that's due to cash basis

[0:08:29] Voice 6: versus accrual basis. The statements of financial information also only include some vendors,

[0:08:35] Voice 6: whereas, of course, the audited financial statements are going to include all. We also

[0:08:39] Voice 6: have the impact of capitalization that makes those numbers different, as well as GST and

[0:08:45] Voice 6: amortization, which, of course, is a non-cash expense. Page 22 of the agenda is a report that

[0:08:53] Voice 6: we provide to financial planning committee and to trust council which is not part of the formal

[0:08:57] Voice 6: statement of financial information so this does not travel to the minister it's here for the

[0:09:02] Voice 6: information of the committee only it provides additional detail on what types of services

[0:09:07] Voice 6: were received from each of the vendors that are listed in our report so we hope we provide this

[0:09:13] Voice 6: each year in the hopes that it's useful for trustees but it will not be included in the

[0:09:17] Voice 6: formal package and that's it as far as the report goes i'm happy to take questions

[0:09:22] Voice 6: And

[0:09:24] Voice 14: just to clarify, just to confirm something you said already, this is a fairly routine report.

[0:09:31] Voice 14: We do it annually, and it's to satisfy provincial disclosure requirements that are separate from the filing of the financial statements.

[0:09:39] Voice 14: Is that right?

[0:09:40] Voice 3: That's correct.

[0:09:42] Voice 14: So, Trustees, do we have any questions about this report, about the information that's going to the province,

[0:09:48] Voice 14: basically telling it what we've been spending on a cash basis?

[0:09:56] Voice 14: Nope. Let's move on to the next item on the agenda, please. 7.2. And I believe Director

[0:10:08] Voice 14: Mobs is going to speak to this one as well. And this is the quarterly report. Is that

[0:10:14] Voice 14: right? Correct.

[0:10:17] Voice 14: Okay. Julia, if you could go into that.

[0:10:20] Voice 6: I just

[0:10:21] Voice 6: see

[0:10:23] Voice 14: that now. Trustee Graham, please go ahead.

[0:10:25] Voice 10: Thank you, Chair. I'm just wondering if that RFD requires a motion to send it off to Trust

[0:10:30] Voice 10: council or is it going to go to trust council regardless uh

[0:10:33] Voice 14: excellent question uh uh director

[0:10:36] Voice 14: mobs perhaps i was zipping back past it a bit too quickly do we need a resolution here

[0:10:41] Voice 6: ideally yes thanks trustee crime ideally

[0:10:45] Voice 14: yes means yes happy to make that

[0:10:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): well general consent works

[0:10:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): well i think for that well

[0:10:52] Voice 14: since we're on the resolution thing let's uh let's loosen up those

[0:10:56] Voice 14: muscles. Who's moving? Trustee Graham has moved. We have a seconder. I see Trustee Evans' hand is

[0:11:08] Voice 14: up. She is seconding the motion. And the motion I take it, Trustee Graham, is as written in the

[0:11:18] Voice 14: briefing that the financial committee forward the 2023-24 Statement of Financial Information

[0:11:22] Voice 14: to Trust Council for approval. Is that right?

[0:11:25] Voice 10: Yeah, I would have said it, but you were moving

[0:11:26] Voice 10: at a blistering speed, which I really appreciate, but I will say it just in case we have to say it.

[0:11:31] Voice 10: So I move that the Financial Planning Committee forward the 2023-24 Statement of Financial

[0:11:35] Voice 10: Information to Trust Council for approval.

[0:11:38] Voice 14: Right. And that's been seconded already.

[0:11:41] Voice 14: Is there any discussion on the point? Seeing none. Those in favor, please raise your hands.

[0:11:53] Voice 14: Please now lower your hands. Any opposed? None. The resolution passes unanimously.

[0:12:02] Voice 14: unanimously. Thank you for that, Trustee Graham, for reminding me about some basic things that we

[0:12:09] Voice 14: need to get done here. To the next item, 7.2, back to the quarterly financial report. Director

[0:12:18] Voice 14: Mobs, if you could please give us that bit of housekeeping reporting as well.

[0:12:27] Voice 6: Happy to, and I'll keep my comments quite high level and brief, as we've talked about, Chair.

[0:12:32] Voice 6: So, normally we have the RFD that comes in advance of the financial report itself, the

[0:12:38] Voice 6: order of that is switched in this agenda, so on page 23 of the agenda is where you'll

[0:12:43] Voice 6: see the financial report, the numbers itself, and then on page 25 is where the RFD begins.

[0:12:50] Voice 6: So, at the end of quarter one, we use a benchmark of 25% to assess our financial position, so

[0:12:59] Voice 6: So we would expect to see approximately 25% of our budget spent when we are about 25%

[0:13:04] Voice 6: of our way through the year.

[0:13:06] Voice 6: Currently, what we're seeing at the end of quarter one is a net 27% of our budget spent,

[0:13:10] Voice 6: so just slightly above the benchmark.

[0:13:12] Voice 6: No concerns there with that amount.

[0:13:15] Voice 6: We do tend to see slight deviations.

[0:13:18] Voice 6: Historically, we see slight underspending.

[0:13:20] Voice 6: In this context, we see a little bit of overspending.

[0:13:22] Voice 6: Some of that is driven a little bit by the timing of projects, which is perfectly appropriate.

[0:13:27] Voice 6: When we look at the details, our revenue is tracking slightly below benchmark.

[0:13:32] Voice 6: We've got 21% of revenue received.

[0:13:34] Voice 6: Our fees are lower than expected, primarily due to the impact of the new accounting standard,

[0:13:40] Voice 6: which means that we have to more slowly recognize fee revenue as we receive it.

[0:13:45] Voice 6: And of course, quarter one, our largest source of revenue, which is property taxes, has not

[0:13:49] Voice 6: yet been received.

[0:13:50] Voice 6: And so that's reflected at zero.

[0:13:52] Voice 6: And so that impacts our revenue reporting at the end of quarter one.

[0:13:57] Voice 6: Very briefly, when we look at our expenses, Council Services is reporting at 23% of budget

[0:14:03] Voice 6: spent, so that's not very far from the 25% benchmark that we would expect to see.

[0:14:08] Voice 6: Local Trust Committee Services is 24% of budget, also very close to that 25% benchmark that

[0:14:15] Voice 6: we would expect.

[0:14:16] Voice 6: The Islands Trust Conservancy is at about 22% of budget spent, so just below a benchmark

[0:14:23] Voice 6: by about 3%. A lot of that's due to the timing of their work, which is planned for later

[0:14:28] Voice 6: in the fiscal. And general administration is also reporting at about 23% of budget spent,

[0:14:33] Voice 6: which is also fairly close to the 25% benchmark that we would expect. I think what trustees

[0:14:39] Voice 6: usually find most useful is our expenses by object, which is on page 29 of the agenda.

[0:14:45] Voice 6: It sort of groups our spending by item as opposed to by functional area. And so you

[0:14:51] Voice 6: you can see that we've got a subtotal of 23% spent there.

[0:14:56] Voice 6: I'm happy to take questions briefly if there are any.

[0:14:59] Voice 6: Oh, one other comment, actually,

[0:15:01] Voice 6: we do note on page 29 of the agenda,

[0:15:05] Voice 6: the amount that's spent in administrative services

[0:15:07] Voice 6: and the amount that's spent in information services.

[0:15:10] Voice 6: We have a $6,000 misallocation between those two areas.

[0:15:15] Voice 6: And so we'll be correcting that

[0:15:16] Voice 6: before this travels to Trust Council.

[0:15:18] Voice 6: What it means is $6,000 has been recorded

[0:15:20] Voice 6: as an admin services cost when it really is an information services cost.

[0:15:25] Voice 6: So we'll be reallocating that before this travels to Trust Council.

[0:15:28] Voice 6: No impact to the bottom line of expenses.

[0:15:32] Voice 14: Thank you.

[0:15:33] Voice 14: Trustee Boland, do you have a question or a comment?

[0:15:36] Voice 4: I note that, you know, we reduced the budget for legal

[0:15:43] Voice 4: and we are overspending with the view that it would come from reserve.

[0:15:49] Voice 4: deserve and can you anticipate a problem with that or how does that look to you?

[0:15:57] Voice 6: I don't anticipate a problem with that. That was an intentional choice that took place by

[0:16:04] Voice 6: Trust Council. We do actually have a good surplus balance so last year we didn't spend all of our

[0:16:10] Voice 6: budget and so we actually had more money flowing into surplus than we had anticipated. We had money

[0:16:14] Voice 6: flowing in instead of drawing it out as expected so we have a healthy balance that we can draw on

[0:16:19] Voice 6: there's no risk to us there.

[0:16:20] Voice 4: We are spending an alarming amount though in a quarter of the year

[0:16:26] Voice 4: the percentage spent is kind of a bit alarming don't you think?

[0:16:35] Voice 6: Yeah we legal costs are always

[0:16:38] Voice 6: a tough one to budget for we never know what might come against us in terms of claims it's

[0:16:42] Voice 6: hard to predict how quickly certain files might advance which of course then has an impact on

[0:16:48] Voice 6: cost. So it is one of the harder spaces to budget for. So we do tend to see more deviation from our

[0:16:53] Voice 6: budgets every year. We see a greater deviation this year in particular, because of course,

[0:16:58] Voice 6: the decision was made to reduce those budgets and fund them from surplus if needed. So we will see

[0:17:03] Voice 6: a greater overage.

[0:17:06] Voice 14: On that specific area, without getting into the details of the litigation,

[0:17:10] Voice 14: are you able to tell us what areas or what we've been spending them over budget?

[0:17:19] Voice 14: for this quarter how it works out over the annual basis who knows but are you able to

[0:17:24] Voice 14: identify what those costs were like what the type of the type of litigation and the

[0:17:32] Voice 14: precipitating events that ran up the costs uh

[0:17:36] Voice 6: so on page 26 of the agenda package going over

[0:17:39] Voice 6: onto page 27 we give as much detail as we can uh related to the legal costs of course some

[0:17:45] Voice 6: information is in camera, as you note. Bylaw enforcement legal costs are over what we would

[0:17:53] Voice 6: expect to this time of year. We've got some files there that are advancing, which are incurring

[0:17:57] Voice 6: costs. And then litigation costs. So defending ourselves against litigation that's come against

[0:18:02] Voice 6: us. We've got a few files advancing there as well. Those are the two primary reasons for

[0:18:06] Voice 6: overspending and legal.

[0:18:08] Voice 14: So of that, $25,000 is normal course business, basically, bylaw

[0:18:14] Voice 14: law enforcement. The other 40,000, which is quite a bit more, almost double, are defending ourselves

[0:18:20] Voice 14: against legal actions. Is that right? Have we identified lawsuits against us as a

[0:18:39] Voice 14: risk to be managed? I mean, it's understandable that we're going to have some of these suits,

[0:18:47] Voice 14: but it seems to be a standard theme. And if we are consistently being sued, that suggests there

[0:18:56] Voice 14: may be reason to examine why. I mean, have we done that as to find out whether or not there's

[0:19:02] Voice 14: things that we are doing that we might be able to stop doing and reduce our litigation costs?

[0:19:11] Voice 6: Maybe I'll briefly answer that. I do see Director Marler has turned his camera on.

[0:19:15] Voice 6: he's I think well positioned to respond to this my brief comments are as far as

[0:19:21] Voice 6: I'm aware we don't lose a lot of these claims which suggests and director

[0:19:28] Voice 6: Marlowe feel free to not if I'm correct it suggests that we don't we aren't

[0:19:34] Voice 6: historically doing anything incorrectly or doing anything wrong we just have

[0:19:38] Voice 6: members of public who are unhappy with the decisions that are made there's

[0:19:42] Voice 6: certainly ways to protect yourself, making sure that, you know, decisions are well supported

[0:19:47] Voice 6: and documented and in line with jurisdiction. I'll turn to Director Marlowe to speak further on that,

[0:19:55] Voice 6: but that's all I know at this point.

[0:19:58] Voice 14: Thank you. Director Marlowe?

[0:20:00] Voice 8: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, no, I support what CAO is saying there. Also, the risk is assessed

[0:20:09] Voice 8: whenever a bylaw is considered by the executive committee.

[0:20:13] Voice 8: That's one of the things that the executive needs to think about

[0:20:17] Voice 8: is the potential impacts on the Islands Trust

[0:20:20] Voice 8: with respect to litigation.

[0:20:23] Voice 8: So if there is a bylaw that is controversial,

[0:20:27] Voice 8: the trust committee is pushing through with it

[0:20:29] Voice 8: or it's on the edge,

[0:20:30] Voice 8: that's something that we definitely would address,

[0:20:34] Voice 8: not only with the local trust committee,

[0:20:35] Voice 8: but also with the executive committee at that point.

[0:20:39] Voice 8: but yeah and um other than that though the uh the litigation against us um mostly is driven

[0:20:48] Voice 8: just by the decisions of local trust committees um on particular applications and uh some people

[0:20:55] Voice 8: just don't like the decision and use the courts to um express that and um we need to defend it

[0:21:05] Voice 8: or, you know, so it can cost like $20,000, $30,000

[0:21:09] Voice 8: depending on what's happening there.

[0:21:15] Voice 14: Right, and we can never really recover the total cost

[0:21:18] Voice 14: anywhere close to it, even when costs are ordered in court.

[0:21:21] Voice 14: I mean, it's just a fraction, really.

[0:21:27] Voice 8: Yeah, that's correct.

[0:21:28] Voice 8: On average, I think it's around 10% recovery if it's successful.

[0:21:32] Voice 8: And in some instances, there's reasons why we might not go after that recovery.

[0:21:38] Voice 8: Right.

[0:21:38] Voice 8: It costs more to go after it than it is to actually get the money.

[0:21:42] Voice 14: Thank you for the clarification. That's helpful.

[0:21:45] Voice 14: I do have a question for interim CAO here.

[0:21:51] Voice 14: I'm not sure how I should address you,

[0:21:52] Voice 14: whether in this capacity as interim CAO or director MOVs,

[0:21:56] Voice 14: since we're operating on your finance capacity.

[0:22:01] Voice 14: The trustee Patrick left me a note and she had some questions.

[0:22:05] Voice 14: And I believe this is in connection with this interim report, and I think it concerns the lack of spending to date with respect to Salt Spring project spending.

[0:22:20] Voice 14: Her point is, even though in March staff reported that we would be able to resource the project to which we were allocating the funding in the budget, it appears there hasn't been much or any spending on the Salt Spring project, projects or project.

[0:22:33] Voice 14: project uh why hasn't that project expanding happened yet uh do we have do we have an issue

[0:22:40] Voice 14: here do we have a problem or is it a timing issue uh

[0:22:46] Voice 6: we do have director sermac who's best place to

[0:22:48] Voice 6: speak to that but it's not uncommon for projects to advance more quickly later in the year um often

[0:22:53] Voice 6: once the project is approved we spend time in the initial planning stages in the earlier parts of

[0:22:59] Voice 6: the year and then we see actual spending and work advanced in the latter part of the year

[0:23:02] Voice 6: I do know in the context of Salt Spring Island in particular, there's been some discussions around shuffling dollars between particular projects to enhance some projects and perhaps not advance others.

[0:23:15] Voice 6: So I think those discussions that are happening at the LTC need to finalize before staff can move this forward.

[0:23:24] Voice 6: We have had some vacancies in the Salt Spring Island office as well.

[0:23:29] Voice 6: you know staff are working very hard to fill those and to bring in um you know sort of more capacity

[0:23:34] Voice 6: acknowledging that we need to be advancing some of this important work um i would uh look to director

[0:23:40] Voice 6: sermac through the chair for additional comments if there are any please

[0:23:44] Voice 12: director sir mark sure

[0:23:46] Voice 12: thank you through the through the chair i think there's you know sort of three key things happening

[0:23:50] Voice 12: one is that there is work progressing uh substantive work i believe the budget the

[0:23:55] Voice 12: salt spring ocp is 222 000. um they're in current uh they have a contract for 150 000 that's to be

[0:24:05] Voice 12: concluded in october so that's a substantive portion of that being spent right now just seems

[0:24:10] Voice 12: like the invoices haven't caught up to the reporting so that's uh that's substantive but as

[0:24:16] Voice 12: interim cao mobs reports there has been a change in direction in the other projects

[0:24:25] Voice 12: LTC themselves have deferred certain projects and as well there's been staffing that

[0:24:32] Voice 12: haven't been able to we haven't been able to secure all the staffing that we need so it's

[0:24:36] Voice 12: kind of a trifecta of change not having resources and yet under reporting what's actually happening

[0:24:44] Voice 14: thank you for that clarification a related point I see trustee bond has her hand up but

[0:24:49] Voice 14: I have a related point that trustee Patrick raised so I think I'll just complete it with

[0:24:55] Voice 14: interim cao mobs here um uh trustee patrick had a query about uh any changes whether there's

[0:25:04] Voice 14: any changes in our ability to limit limit the special levy levy to salt spring residents

[0:25:09] Voice 14: uh or sorry the special living for the salt spring local trust area whether that can be

[0:25:16] Voice 14: limited to the residents of salt spring and exempt the residents of the um associated islands in lta

[0:25:24] Voice 14: I'm assuming there hasn't been any change in that, but I thought I would, you know, Trustee Patrick has this, it's an ongoing concern in that local trust area and Trustee Patrick was, has a general question about whether there's been any changes or any movement in our ability to sort of finesse that to sort of limit the special levy to residents of Salt Spring. CAO?

[0:25:47] Voice 6: Legally, we are not able to limit special requisitions to certain islands within a

[0:25:51] Voice 6: local trust area. The legislation requires that we levy against all properties in a local trust area.

[0:25:58] Voice 6: I do know that that's been an issue for some of the associated islands in the past. I've

[0:26:04] Voice 6: had conversations with folks from Piers Island, for example, about this very topic. Legislation

[0:26:08] Voice 6: hasn't changed on the matter. What we have seen with the special levies, with Salt Spring Island

[0:26:15] Voice 6: in particular is sometimes when the levies are not spent,

[0:26:17] Voice 6: Trust Council will authorize the LTC to spend the money

[0:26:21] Voice 6: on a particular project.

[0:26:23] Voice 6: So not just on SOPA coordination.

[0:26:25] Voice 6: The local Trust Committee could choose at that point

[0:26:28] Voice 6: to maybe focus on work that is more relevant

[0:26:30] Voice 6: to the associated islands and not just the larger island.

[0:26:33] Voice 6: But unfortunately we have to levy

[0:26:35] Voice 6: on all properties in the area.

[0:26:40] Voice 14: Yeah, have we at any juncture,

[0:26:44] Voice 14: has trust counsel at any juncture asked staff to examine the feasibility and frankly the wisdom

[0:26:55] Voice 14: of attempting to to seek having the power to sort of have this differential living within an LTA

[0:27:01] Voice 14: I'm not suggesting we do that I'm just curious whether or not we've ever undertaken that effort

[0:27:08] Voice 14: to sort of have a policy assessment of whether or not a it's feasible to ask the province to

[0:27:15] Voice 14: to give us that power and B, whether or not it's a good idea

[0:27:18] Voice 14: because of course, differential spending of tax money

[0:27:23] Voice 14: happens in every jurisdiction.

[0:27:26] Voice 14: People who don't have kids pay for school taxes,

[0:27:28] Voice 14: that sort of thing.

[0:27:29] Voice 14: So this is really just a historical question.

[0:27:34] Voice 14: Have we ever asked the staff to examine the feasibility

[0:27:37] Voice 14: of that policy examination?

[0:27:42] Voice 6: I've not conducted that work in my time here.

[0:27:46] Voice 6: That would be a legislative change, so perhaps Director Marler, who is in that space and

[0:27:51] Voice 6: has been here a long time, would be aware of history there.

[0:27:55] Voice 8: Yeah, through the Chair, no, that request has never been made and we've never actually

[0:28:00] Voice 8: done any analysis as to the implications of doing that.

[0:28:05] Voice 8: It definitely would be a legislative change, not a regulatory change.

[0:28:08] Voice 8: so it's yeah right

[0:28:10] Voice 14: yes don't worry i see you there thank you director marler and i i was going to

[0:28:17] Voice 14: point out that in fact director freighter had her hand up and i assume uh that it's your point is

[0:28:22] Voice 14: related to this

[0:28:23] Voice 7: yes please

[0:28:24] Voice 14: proceed we

[0:28:26] Voice 7: have in fact advocated on this matter i've worked staff

[0:28:29] Voice 7: to staff without success it would require legislative change um the ministry staff

[0:28:35] Voice 7: staff indicated it would be a substantial amount of work at their end for very minor financial

[0:28:39] Voice 7: adjustments for particular taxpayers of a small number. So at the time they were not inclined to

[0:28:45] Voice 7: take it up. Certainly we could revisit that. It's been quite a number of years since we've tried

[0:28:49] Voice 7: previously. But there will also be implications across other jurisdictions that might also want

[0:28:55] Voice 7: similar changes, such as you mentioned around school taxes and other sort of principles of

[0:28:58] Voice 7: how taxes are applied. So we weren't successful in my initial approach to them. I reported back

[0:29:04] Voice 7: to this committee probably two years ago or three years ago around that thank

[0:29:08] Voice 14: you both for the

[0:29:09] Voice 14: historical insight um we'll just leave that leave that live for now uh trustee bowman thank

[0:29:16] Voice 4: you um

[0:29:18] Voice 4: acknowledging uh the reasons you gave for the lack of um you know apparent lack of spending

[0:29:24] Voice 4: on the soul spring projects if i think back to the last year or so um there was virtually no

[0:29:32] Voice 4: progress and all of the money went into the surplus and came back out. So arguably, those

[0:29:39] Voice 4: projects were like, as they say, shove already on April the 1st. But having put all of that to the

[0:29:46] Voice 4: side, one of the issues that occurs constantly is that you have staffing issues on Salisbury Island.

[0:29:55] Voice 4: And my question is, does the fact that you run an office on Salisbury Island,

[0:30:00] Voice 4: Spring Island contribute to that difficulty in resourcing those positions? Thank you.

[0:30:11] Voice 14: That sounds like a question for Director Cermak.

[0:30:15] Voice 12: Certainly. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I've been on Salt Spring living here for 14 years. I ran that

[0:30:21] Voice 12: office as an RPM for 12. And I can confidently say that the price of living on the islands has

[0:30:27] Voice 12: risen dramatically, making it difficult for young professionals to live on the island,

[0:30:32] Voice 12: it, especially to move to the island. So yes, I would think that having an island, an office on

[0:30:38] Voice 12: the island with a lack of housing affects us as much as it does other organizations on the island,

[0:30:42] Voice 12: including hospitals, grocery stores, and the rest.

[0:30:47] Voice 4: Ironic that we theoretically have the power to fix

[0:30:51] Voice 4: that, but apparently we can't. Anyway, thank you.

[0:30:55] Voice 14: Well, let's leave that to that local trust

[0:30:57] Voice 14: committee uh trustee lecker yeah

[0:31:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): um i apologize um i just wanted to chime in on the um on the

[0:31:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): request of the province about changing the uh taxation just to add to what director freighter

[0:31:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): said uh having been involved in those conversations you can well imagine that if the islands trust

[0:31:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): asked for this and they and they offered it to the islands trust it's quite an administrative

[0:31:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): burden to the tax authority to actually micromanage those individual LTC tax requisitions because it

[0:31:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): require separate ones for each separate island, we'll say. And of course, if they are, and this

[0:31:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): is often the problem with the province, although I totally respect it, is that if they offered that

[0:31:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): to the Islands Trust, they would also end up being concerned that they would have to offer it to

[0:31:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): municipalities and regional districts. And it would just become an entire body of work for the

[0:31:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): taxation authority that is where their concern lies in not offering to us. They certainly understand

[0:32:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): it, but have suggested that we need to find other ways to provide benefits to those communities that

[0:32:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): are contributing in those areas in order to satisfy that financial concern. And that's only

[0:32:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): ever happened on Salt Spring at this point and in fact I think we're not presently conducting that

[0:32:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): so just a little bit of additional information.

[0:32:23] Voice 14: Well it certainly would seem to be a precedent

[0:32:25] Voice 14: the province would be frankly reluctant to set that's for sure the potential for chaos is

[0:32:32] Voice 14: enormous. Trustee Peterson.

[0:32:36] Voice 9: Yeah just with my Salt Spring chair hat on for a moment just for

[0:32:41] Voice 9: as point of information the salt spring ltc um in oh gosh sorry about that in uh end of july um

[0:32:54] Voice 9: elected to essentially combine the ganges filling plan ganji's village planning project

[0:33:00] Voice 9: uh into the official community plan land use bylaw project so that's um that was uh based on staff

[0:33:09] Voice 9: staff recommendation. And so that's, I was actually never clear why they needed to be

[0:33:16] Voice 9: separate. And now we've had advice that they should just be combined into one. So I hope

[0:33:21] Voice 9: that helps provide a little clarity on those two items.

[0:33:24] Voice 14: All right. Thank you. Do we have any

[0:33:26] Voice 14: further comments or questions regarding these interim financial statements? Seeing none,

[0:33:34] Voice 14: I'm going to take it that since no one, I assume no one's objecting that we forward them to Trust

[0:33:41] Voice 14: council for approval of the next trans council meeting so not hearing any objections to that

[0:33:49] Voice 14: i'm going to assume that they can be forwarded on on the basis of general consent so thank you

[0:33:57] Voice 14: for that uh moving on to the next item uh 7.3 and this may well be the the heart of the discussion

[0:34:05] Voice 14: today um and this is a and you know uh interim cao module will speak to this but before we get

[0:34:13] Voice 14: to that i mean we've gone through this with with each budget cycle now the discussion of

[0:34:20] Voice 14: budget assumptions principles and but as we've discussed the last meeting in previous meetings

[0:34:26] Voice 14: one of the things that we're missing here at the trust is budget guidelines and

[0:34:35] Voice 14: we've discussed the need for them and uh some tentative ones are put in here for

[0:34:42] Voice 14: in the briefing but so we're here for for discussion but at some point uh we're going

[0:34:49] Voice 14: to have to ask uh trust council uh to put his mind to the idea of adopting some guidelines i mean

[0:34:55] Voice 14: it's one thing to take assumptions and principles that have been more or less previously approved

[0:35:00] Voice 14: and they're kind of accepted as part of the process and simply bring them forward to trust

[0:35:05] Voice 14: council and ask say okay here we go for approval uh guidelines are a different matter so i would

[0:35:13] Voice 14: like i'm hoping that the discussion today will be uh principally about the guidelines and although

[0:35:18] Voice 14: there's no recommendation here to adopt any it is within the power of this committee if we think that

[0:35:24] Voice 14: there are guidelines that are appropriate that we could uh we might be able to discuss and approve

[0:35:28] Voice 14: some of them for inclusion uh in the disc or as part of a recommendation to trust council

[0:35:34] Voice 14: september but let's see how that that goes so anyhow uh my point is now's a good time to to

[0:35:40] Voice 14: to visit that point.

[0:35:42] Voice 14: So I'd turn the matter over to Interim CAO Mobs

[0:35:46] Voice 14: to review these items for us.

[0:35:48] Voice 14: Point

[0:35:49] Voice 5: of privilege before we get started there.

[0:35:51] Voice 14: Sure, go ahead, Trustee Evans.

[0:35:52] Voice 5: Did I miss the vote or the motion

[0:35:56] Voice 5: on the previous section?

[0:35:58] Voice 14: That was going by consent.

[0:36:00] Voice 5: Oh, that went by consent, okay, thank you.

[0:36:02] Voice 14: Yeah, so over to you, Julia.

[0:36:10] Voice 6: Thanks, Chair.

[0:36:10] Voice 6: Thanks for your introductory comments there

[0:36:12] Voice 6: as well. So the Chair is absolutely right. Trust Council every year historically has

[0:36:16] Voice 6: looked at budget assumptions and principles. Assumptions and principles are guidance into

[0:36:22] Voice 6: the draft budget. It does give guidance to FPC and to staff about the types of things

[0:36:27] Voice 6: to consider and include when putting the draft budget together. Guidelines are a bit of a

[0:36:33] Voice 6: new concept. They are definitely related to assumptions and principles and overlap in

[0:36:39] Voice 6: some instances, but they are a bit more sort of, you know, guideposts, if you will, around

[0:36:46] Voice 6: goals and outputs and what we want the budget to, what your fees want the budget to look like at

[0:36:52] Voice 6: the end of the day. So the document that's before the committee looks very similar to what you've

[0:36:56] Voice 6: seen historically for conversations around assumptions and principles, where staff have

[0:37:02] Voice 6: found examples of budget guidelines related to specific topic areas. We've included some of the

[0:37:07] Voice 6: example language uh within each of those um items um so i can walk through the assumptions principles

[0:37:14] Voice 6: and example guidelines uh by topic area or we can simply um turn it over to the committee and begin

[0:37:21] Voice 6: discussion of particular areas of interest uh what's your preference chair i

[0:37:26] Voice 14: think my preference

[0:37:27] Voice 14: is that we take them item by item but um that uh that we focus our attention that your your

[0:37:36] Voice 14: your introduction of some of these items would be principally just for

[0:37:39] Voice 14: information. And, you know,

[0:37:40] Voice 14: if you could identify the ones that we've historically adopted and very

[0:37:44] Voice 14: briefly explain the reasons for that,

[0:37:46] Voice 14: and then we just hop on to the next one.

[0:37:48] Voice 14: But when we get to any of these items,

[0:37:51] Voice 14: whether it's a guideline or something else that is new or that at that

[0:37:55] Voice 14: point, we,

[0:37:55] Voice 14: we will then open it up for discussion with respect to that specific item.

[0:37:59] Voice 14: How does that sound?

[0:38:02] Voice 6: That sounds workable.

[0:38:04] Voice 14: All right. So I see trustee Evans, you have your hand up.

[0:38:07] Voice 14: Is that okay? That's just an outstanding hand. Okay. Julia, please proceed.

[0:38:15] Voice 6: All right. We start the discussion with a look at some of the assumptions and principles and

[0:38:21] Voice 6: guidelines related to revenues in the draft budget. So we are estimating fees and sales

[0:38:27] Voice 6: as we have historically done. We're going to be looking at historical application volumes

[0:38:34] Voice 6: volumes, and use that as an estimate of what we might expect in the future, multiplied

[0:38:39] Voice 6: by fees that are in our relevant bylaws.

[0:38:42] Voice 6: Of course, we're making an adjustment next year to account for our new accounting standard,

[0:38:47] Voice 6: which forces us to only recognize application fee revenues sort of as we move through the

[0:38:52] Voice 6: process of processing applications.

[0:38:56] Voice 6: So that will have an impact on our fees and sales budget, likely reducing them slightly.

[0:39:00] Voice 6: But that's just an estimate based on the formula.

[0:39:05] Voice 6: Item number two looks to the provincial grant funding.

[0:39:09] Voice 6: That's our unrestricted operating grant that we receive from the province every year.

[0:39:13] Voice 6: Staff are assuming that there will be no change to that amount.

[0:39:16] Voice 6: We haven't seen a change for many, many years.

[0:39:19] Voice 6: It is tied to things like population, which in our context are not rising fast enough

[0:39:24] Voice 6: to impact this dollar value, and so we'll be including the draft budget historical values

[0:39:29] Voice 6: at $180,000.

[0:39:30] Voice 6: dollars. Item number three is provincial grant funding that's restricted. So we'll be looking

[0:39:34] Voice 6: at already approved grant funding agreements that we have in play and making sure that we

[0:39:39] Voice 6: are incorporating appropriate amounts related to each of those grants. Federal grant funding,

[0:39:45] Voice 6: same idea where we have approved grant agreements with the Canadian government, we will be

[0:39:52] Voice 6: including amounts relevant to each of those grants in the draft budget. Item number five is property

[0:39:58] Voice 6: property taxes so of course property taxes is our largest source of revenue each year we make

[0:40:05] Voice 6: the assumption it again will be required it's necessary for us to advance our work we this is

[0:40:10] Voice 6: a space where we have opportunity for consideration of guidelines so historically what we see happen

[0:40:16] Voice 6: is the draft budget is put together it spits out a particular tax increase it comes to this

[0:40:22] Voice 6: committee and generally the committee is not comfortable with that tax increase and looks

[0:40:26] Voice 6: for ways to reduce it. Applying a guideline is an opportunity to address some of that

[0:40:32] Voice 6: early on in the budget cycle. So you could recommend to Trust Council that a particular

[0:40:38] Voice 6: tax rate increase is set and the first draft of the budget would attempt to achieve that early on.

[0:40:45] Voice 6: So we've got some example guidelines from a few different districts and cities. We've got an

[0:40:49] Voice 6: example guideline from the District of Saanich. Their guideline is that their council will

[0:40:54] Voice 6: consider budget reduction scenarios of one and two percent so they are allowing the budget to

[0:40:59] Voice 6: follow where it will and asking staff to provide opportunities for reduction the city of Cambridge

[0:41:05] Voice 6: direct staff also to present options for reducing the impact of the budget and Port Moody was one

[0:41:13] Voice 6: of the only jurisdictions I was able to find that actually mandates a certain percentage of the tax

[0:41:20] Voice 6: tax increases um at some point in their budget cycle so those are options that the committee

[0:41:26] Voice 6: can consider did you want to pause here chair to talk about yes i yeah

[0:41:31] Voice 14: i i think so because if we

[0:41:33] Voice 14: cast our mind back to previous discussions we've had about budget guidelines this really comes down

[0:41:37] Voice 14: to the heart of um the heart of the business when we come down to it because when you talk about

[0:41:45] Voice 14: guidelines inevitably we come down to this whole issue that we we as interim cao moms pointed out

[0:41:53] Voice 14: this whole issue that we have of perennially getting a budget that gets developed without

[0:41:59] Voice 14: any kind of break on increases it's simply based on project assessments and and ongoing work

[0:42:09] Voice 14: assessments and we end up with a percentage proposal of percentage increase that does make

[0:42:14] Voice 14: trustees uncomfortable because percentage increases are always on the large side and

[0:42:18] Voice 14: we find ourselves wrangling on this committee over how to knock it down and typically because

[0:42:26] Voice 14: the budgetary proposals for just operating costs have already been settled more or less

[0:42:33] Voice 14: where we're at is we're wrangling over finding cuts to reduce the overall budget by trying to

[0:42:39] Voice 14: reduce the discretionary spending which is a fraction of what the overall budget i mean

[0:42:45] Voice 14: I mean, the overall budget is close to $10 million.

[0:42:47] Voice 14: Our discretionary spending is somewhere in the $700,000 plus or whatever range in there,

[0:42:52] Voice 14: so less than a million.

[0:42:54] Voice 14: So we're trying to find in less than 10% of our spending reductions to knock down the

[0:42:59] Voice 14: spending overall tax increase of the budget as a whole.

[0:43:03] Voice 14: So we find ourselves in that wrangle because we haven't provided staff with direction up

[0:43:07] Voice 14: front about how it should be looking at all those fixed costs.

[0:43:11] Voice 14: so that's my introductory talk to that but uh so here we have it we have an opportunity here

[0:43:19] Voice 14: to discuss the feasibility and prudence of of introducing some kind of uh upfront budget

[0:43:28] Voice 14: guideline with respect to proposed tax increases so i'll open the floor to discussion with that

[0:43:32] Voice 14: introduction trustee boland thank

[0:43:37] Voice 4: you um i agree with you entirely that we need something to set

[0:43:43] Voice 4: a framework a boundary um i would propose and you know these uh one is that discretionary spending

[0:43:53] Voice 4: the portion of the budget which is discretionary should be frozen and have absolutely no increase

[0:44:00] Voice 4: because we can do that and and the second thing is that there should be no new staff positions

[0:44:06] Voice 4: at all and I would go further and consider that staff positions that are on contract should be

[0:44:17] Voice 4: reviewed so I'm not talking about you know positions where somebody has taken on to do

[0:44:22] Voice 4: a particular project but I believe there are staff positions where um you know we may have said

[0:44:29] Voice 4: you know it's okay for a year or two for this particular role but we should review those

[0:44:36] Voice 4: contracts and consider um reductions so those are three ideas i have because i know that we

[0:44:44] Voice 4: come to the fixed costs and it would become impossible to fix those um as you indicated

[0:44:50] Voice 4: and that's a huge portion of the budget so those are the only three options that i can think of

[0:44:56] Voice 4: personally. And then perhaps we should also revisit the idea of consolidating the office

[0:45:04] Voice 4: locations. Thanks.

[0:45:07] Voice 14: Well, there's a mix in there of operational decisions and budget guidelines.

[0:45:13] Voice 14: I think let's just be clear. Let's stay away from operational decisions like shutting down

[0:45:19] Voice 14: offices and that sort of thing. That's a whole different thing. Okay,

[0:45:23] Voice 4: so that's discretionary

[0:45:24] Voice 4: spending freeze it um no new staff positions and consider uh contract staff positions okay

[0:45:34] Voice 14: understood thank you for clarifying that summary that's handy trustee peterson um

[0:45:41] Voice 9: thank you so of

[0:45:42] Voice 9: course this is uh this i think this is a good discussion to be having uh indeed uh chair

[0:45:48] Voice 9: bernardo you're correct we we fbc uh spends a lot of time wrangling over uh looking at how to reduce

[0:45:56] Voice 9: taxes and then of course trust council may or may not um take fbc's advice when it comes down

[0:46:03] Voice 9: to the final decision uh after indeed this committee and then and staff has spent quite

[0:46:09] Voice 9: a bit of time um trying to get there so i just wanted to point that little bit out um

[0:46:16] Voice 9: in regards to budget guidelines setting at zero increase of discretionary i think it's

[0:46:22] Voice 9: you know looking at the the picture across the federation um it's a worthy goal however the

[0:46:31] Voice 9: reality is is that um when the discretion a lot of discretionary spending is um is for projects

[0:46:38] Voice 9: coming out of ltcs depending on the ltc and depending on the project and the and the cost of

[0:46:45] Voice 9: it these can be very near and dear not only to the hearts of the trustees in that local trust area but

[0:46:52] Voice 9: but in fact to the citizens of that particular local trust area.

[0:46:58] Voice 9: So I'd be a little leery about trying to set a zero increase cap on that.

[0:47:07] Voice 9: In regards to staffing positions, one of the things that's a constant concern for me

[0:47:15] Voice 9: is our capacity within trust area services because the policy statement project

[0:47:21] Voice 9: is going on at the pace it is we are experiencing deficits in terms of

[0:47:27] Voice 9: getting correspondence out in a timely fashion and specifically in terms of

[0:47:33] Voice 9: First Nations relationships and that lack of capacity I think is is harming

[0:47:38] Voice 9: the organization I don't blame the staff I know they are absolutely topped up

[0:47:44] Voice 9: busy we tend as Trust Council to especially overload trust area services

[0:47:50] Voice 9: services with tasks. Just go and look at the follow-up action list for trust area services

[0:47:56] Voice 9: compared to some of the others. And then finally, I just wanted to make a note,

[0:48:01] Voice 9: very interesting information on page 44 of this agenda package, where our whopping 6.33

[0:48:10] Voice 9: increase for 2024 results in an average of an additional $23.50 for the average residential

[0:48:21] Voice 9: property valued at $800,000 plus, and we're talking about a total of about $400

[0:48:29] Voice 9: in annual taxes for that average property. One of the things that I have had concerns about

[0:48:39] Voice 9: out for and express and we have heard back from staff that it's a little bit cumbersome but

[0:48:44] Voice 9: when we receive our tax notices for our property the way the province lays it out it's not

[0:48:51] Voice 9: immediately clear i think to uh a lot of residents who they're paying for what and i think that is

[0:49:00] Voice 9: problematic because while no one likes paying taxes uh chair bernardo you brought up you know

[0:49:07] Voice 9: school tax earlier, the way that our property taxes are allocated,

[0:49:13] Voice 9: some is going to the province for schools and policing and roads.

[0:49:20] Voice 9: Some is going to our regional districts for things like garbage services

[0:49:24] Voice 9: and that's sort of the services that regional district provides.

[0:49:29] Voice 9: And unless I'm sorely mistaken, I haven't certainly not examined

[0:49:34] Voice 9: and uh everyone's a tax bill from every local trust committee but the island's trust portion

[0:49:40] Voice 9: of those tax my property taxes are fairly modest um around 15 percent of my property tax

[0:49:51] Voice 9: is going to island's trust so i i think that that the fact that we haven't had uh uh developed a

[0:49:59] Voice 9: good way of communicating a way for residents to read their tax bills and see what they really are

[0:50:04] Voice 9: paying to islands trust i i don't if they if they want to object to that amount that's fine

[0:50:12] Voice 9: but when when there's not clarity for taxpayers who they're paying for what i think it breeds um

[0:50:23] Voice 9: uh extra angst i guess it would be one way to say it so that's just an ongoing concern i have i know

[0:50:30] Voice 9: because we have seven regional districts it's our staff has identified it'd be difficult to

[0:50:36] Voice 9: really break it down um in a tax notice coming from myles trust to help help that but that is

[0:50:42] Voice 9: a concern for me thank you thank you

[0:50:45] Voice 14: trustee peterson and i take it from that you know just

[0:50:48] Voice 14: there was a lot there but i take it the you've got two points here one is the general

[0:50:53] Voice 14: you feel the general direction with respect to limiting spending increases as a guideline would

[0:50:59] Voice 14: would be better than making specific directions

[0:51:02] Voice 14: that might limit staff's discretion.

[0:51:06] Voice 14: So leaving that leeway to staff

[0:51:08] Voice 14: to sort of exercise some judgment there

[0:51:10] Voice 14: and then bring it to trust council,

[0:51:11] Voice 14: I understand you to be saying that's preferable

[0:51:13] Voice 14: than sort of waiting into making specific instructions.

[0:51:17] Voice 14: Is that right?

[0:51:20] Voice 9: Yeah, that's correct.

[0:51:21] Voice 9: And especially when the talk of holding to,

[0:51:24] Voice 9: for example, a 0%, I like the,

[0:51:27] Voice 9: there was one of the examples that had a range

[0:51:30] Voice 9: And I think a range is something I'd be more supportive of than a hard number or, and especially a zero number. I just don't feel that it doesn't take into account the vagaries of life and planning and projects.

[0:51:46] Voice 9: Okay. And

[0:51:48] Voice 14: of course, the point about the presentation of the actual nuts and bolts of communicating what people are actually paying into the Islands Trust and what increases to the Islands Trust budget, how they manifest to people in real dollar terms, that has been a point that's come up before.

[0:52:08] Voice 14: And I'm going to ask staff to make a note of it so that when staff eventually does weigh in on some of this discussion, you'll be able to provide us with some kind of update or thoughts about whether or not we might be able to improve that.

[0:52:21] Voice 14: Trustee Evans.

[0:52:24] Voice 5: Thank you.

[0:52:24] Voice 5: I was just going to say, you spoke directly to one of the points that I wanted to raise.

[0:52:28] Voice 5: So thank you very much.

[0:52:29] Voice 5: and I would definitely be in favor of having something in our tax notices that says this is

[0:52:35] Voice 5: the average amount raised on property tax or something like that for clarity for

[0:52:43] Voice 5: for residents I think that'd be super super helpful with regards to the guidelines

[0:52:50] Voice 5: I would be in favor of something that could stand the test of time versus having to come up with

[0:52:55] Voice 5: these guidelines year over year and I like the the Port Moody guideline which is like x percent so

[0:53:02] Voice 5: five or seven percent or lower so we've set like it can go up to this point but no higher

[0:53:09] Voice 5: so I do like that one the other one that I do like as well which I think we tried to do last

[0:53:15] Voice 5: year was having and we requested that staff look at budget reduction scenarios of one and two percent

[0:53:23] Voice 5: and that would be anything that's not a fixed cost so not salaries not our not our rent anything else

[0:53:30] Voice 5: look at having it across the board not not project specific because I think last year

[0:53:36] Voice 5: it was misinterpreted as being project specific but what we I think we intended was across the

[0:53:42] Voice 5: entire budget so I would be in favor of of those two I think they would work well together

[0:53:48] Voice 5: gather. So those would be my proposals. And I think those two could stand the test of time and

[0:53:55] Voice 5: come back budget year over budget year. Thank you.

[0:54:00] Voice 15: Trustee Leckham.

[0:54:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): Thank you, Chair. And thank you,

[0:54:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): Trustee Evans, for the test of time. Indeed, we don't need to do this on a regular basis,

[0:54:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): but certainly reviewing it from time to time would be appropriate. So appreciate that.

[0:54:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): When we're talking about, we need to be clear here, when we're talking about discretionary expenses or even non-discretionary expenses about fixing those things at a zero increase, we obviously need to take into fact the cost of living and inflation and PSA increases.

[0:54:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): I'll just name the immediate three that seem obvious to me, is that we have to accept the fact that our budgets are going to go up by that much.

[0:54:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): Otherwise, we are funding a lower level of delivery of service.

[0:54:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): And so, in fact, it turns out to be an overall budget and resource decrease.

[0:55:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): And we can't continue to do that over time.

[0:55:03] Trustee Luckham (probable): We've been doing that over time by doing zero and very low increases.

[0:55:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): And that is coming back to bite us, which is why we're in this difficult situation at

[0:55:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): this time.

[0:55:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): So just say that out loud.

[0:55:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): And then, of course, the other component in all of this is resources don't continue to

[0:55:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): be the same.

[0:55:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): Trust's appetite for undertaking work changes.

[0:55:29] Trustee Luckham (probable): changes and the practice seems to be we always want to ask for more. And when we ask for more

[0:55:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): and we don't have the resources to do it, it's necessary to reflect on whether or not we need

[0:55:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): additional or new positions. And then indeed, strong business cases need to be brought forward

[0:55:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): in order to allow us to make a decision in favor or not accordingly. And or, of course,

[0:55:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): us. Council needs to reduce its appetite in order to take on the work that we can do within the

[0:56:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): budget available to us. And then I just want to reference contract positions as if there's some

[0:56:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): discretion there. Council approves projects or LTCs approve projects based upon the budget

[0:56:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): available to them. And those contracts are typically very clear for a particular project

[0:56:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): or particular level of work, and if it's fixed price or variable, although I would imagine

[0:56:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): mostly I would appreciate through the chair, Director Mobs, to advise us that those costs

[0:56:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): associated with the contracts, if they're not fixed price, once the job is done, the job is

[0:56:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): done, and that would be reflected in the billing, and there would ultimately be surplus more so than

[0:56:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): over expense. But I don't know that there's a necessity for us to spend the time to review

[0:56:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): contracts when the contracts are issued for a particular purpose. Staff manage them

[0:56:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): professionally. And when they're done, they're done. Back to you.

[0:57:03] Voice 13: Thank you.

[0:57:08] Voice 14: I'm pointing at CEO, interim CEO, Mobs can step in at this point to address a couple of

[0:57:13] Voice 14: points here. We've had a couple of, I think, interesting comments about what a potential

[0:57:23] Voice 14: budget guideline in this area with respect to limiting budget increases or tax increases,

[0:57:30] Voice 14: how it might look like. We've heard one comment from Trustee Evans that it ought not to be

[0:57:35] Voice 14: so specific that we have to revisit it every year. Her preference is that we have something

[0:57:41] Voice 14: that stands the test of time we've also heard from trustee peterson his preference is that

[0:57:47] Voice 14: that a guideline in this area be more general and that it leaves staff with discretion over uh

[0:57:56] Voice 14: given its operational you know familiarity giving staff some discretion over

[0:58:03] Voice 14: where in any budget proposed limitations would fall and then would leave it to staff to explain

[0:58:10] Voice 14: why it makes sense to limit expenditures in one area as opposed to another, that kind of thing,

[0:58:16] Voice 14: a more general guideline. So perhaps, Julia, you could comment on those two points and what

[0:58:24] Voice 14: you think in your, you know, in your finance capacity, what is most workable in our environment?

[0:58:33] Voice 14: Thank you.

[0:58:36] Voice 6: So, yeah, I'll do my best there. These guidelines, this particular example

[0:58:43] Voice 6: guideline relates to the property tax increase. I'll just mention some of the proposed guidelines

[0:58:50] Voice 6: coming from Trustee Boland are actually related to spending, which is further on in the agenda.

[0:58:56] Voice 6: There's guidelines associated with spending. When I was looking for example guidelines associated

[0:59:01] Voice 6: with this, primarily what you see is the first two is a guideline associated with coming back

[0:59:10] Voice 6: with options to reduce the budget it was very difficult for me to actually find a jurisdiction

[0:59:14] Voice 6: that was giving a set tax increase just as an absolute figure because in the public sector

[0:59:21] Voice 6: space you know we're providing a service to the public we have activities that were mandated to

[0:59:26] Voice 6: undertake and those have costs so there's a recognition that we are going to have to spend

[0:59:34] Voice 6: some level whatever it's going to some level of money whatever it's going to be to make sure that

[0:59:38] Voice 6: that we can meet those obligations

[0:59:40] Voice 6: and spend money on the things

[0:59:41] Voice 6: that we want to spend money on.

[0:59:43] Voice 6: And setting a fixed percentage upfront

[0:59:47] Voice 6: can be potentially restrictive in that regard.

[0:59:50] Voice 6: You know, I was happy to hear

[0:59:52] Voice 6: that some of the proposed guideline

[0:59:53] Voice 6: was particularly in relation to discretionary spending,

[0:59:56] Voice 6: because that of course,

[0:59:57] Voice 6: we've got some discretion over what you're spending.

[1:00:00] Voice 6: But if you're acknowledging that we have some spending that's non-discretionary, it might be hard to set an absolute figure up front in terms of the tax increase.

[1:00:08] Voice 6: And I think that's why most jurisdictions are saying, OK, come back with – they're setting guidelines on some areas of spending, which we'll get to later on in the agenda package.

[1:00:17] Voice 6: And then they're saying, whatever that spits out, bring back some options for us to reduce if we need to.

[1:00:24] Voice 6: And then, of course, there will always be the discussion that comes up around that absolute tax increase figure.

[1:00:28] Voice 6: happens every year and it needs to be a conversation that's had um setting it this early

[1:00:32] Voice 6: may be somewhat restrictive for staff um i missed the second point that you're looking for me to

[1:00:39] Voice 6: comment on well while we're

[1:00:41] Voice 14: well the second point was uh we we heard trustee bowen had some

[1:00:46] Voice 14: specifics and i think you've sort of addressed already by saying well those are actually to be

[1:00:51] Voice 14: addressed in in different guidelines with respect to spending this is just this general tax increase

[1:00:56] Voice 14: issue. And I think that's where both, that's where Trustee Peterson, I think, was coming from,

[1:01:02] Voice 14: which is, let's not get into specifics. From what you just said, we don't have to get into

[1:01:06] Voice 14: specifics. And we're just simply talking about the tax increase here, property tax increase.

[1:01:11] Voice 14: So that would just be a general one. Personally, I don't see how it makes a lot of sense to limit

[1:01:19] Voice 14: a percentage or any kind of direction to reduce the tax levy, limiting it to discretionary spending.

[1:01:26] Voice 14: I understand your point with respect to a fixed number having real potential for unattended problems in terms of restrictions that nobody wants.

[1:01:42] Voice 14: But there's still, I think, some room here to develop some ideas.

[1:01:50] Voice 14: So I don't think you have to address that specific point with respect to the property tax being general, because it's by its nature general.

[1:01:58] Voice 14: And that idea of leaving staff with discretion, I think, is more appropriate for the spending section.

[1:02:05] Voice 14: But we do need to consider that most of the spending isn't discretionary.

[1:02:11] Voice 14: And so any kind of ceiling or limitation or something guideline along those for that purpose, I think, has to apply to the whole budget.

[1:02:21] Voice 14: uh with the proviso i think you've made which is you have to be very very cautious about having

[1:02:27] Voice 14: some fixed ceiling hard ceiling have have julia have you encountered in your researches

[1:02:34] Voice 14: any guidelines for any local government that says look you know staff's directed to

[1:02:40] Voice 14: you know try to limit the tax increase to x percent but if they can't you know that's okay

[1:02:49] Voice 14: to come back to us and explain why uh you know for you know essentially saying yeah we're providing

[1:02:57] Voice 14: a ceiling it's a guideline it's where we want to get to but it's not it's not fixed it's not you

[1:03:02] Voice 14: know we're not going to blow the world up if it turns out you you come to us and say there's some

[1:03:07] Voice 14: jurisdiction says you know five percent and the staff come back comes back and says look we really

[1:03:12] Voice 14: tried to get to five percent but we can't get there we're offering six percent or proposing

[1:03:17] Voice 14: 6%, because at 5%, we end up with operational limitations that are intolerable. Now, obviously,

[1:03:25] Voice 14: you know, a three-page guideline isn't going to cut it, but have you come across anything that

[1:03:29] Voice 14: sort of gropes in that general direction of setting a ceiling, but it's not hard and fast?

[1:03:35] Voice 6: I think that's true of all guidelines. That's just conceptually accurate. What I'm seeing is

[1:03:42] Voice 6: most jurisdictions are attempting to control the tax increase by controlling the spending

[1:03:46] Voice 6: and giving direction on, you know, limiting departmental budget increases,

[1:03:52] Voice 6: only considering new staffing in certain contexts, things of that nature.

[1:03:56] Voice 6: And that, of course, indirectly is going to influence what your tax shift will be.

[1:04:01] Voice 6: Any budget guideline, if we're moving through the budget cycle and identifying this isn't workable,

[1:04:07] Voice 6: absolutely, you go back to Trust Council and identify, you know, we've attempted to meet this guideline.

[1:04:12] Voice 6: it's not workable unless you want to be dramatically

[1:04:16] Voice 6: impacting our ability to achieve our work.

[1:04:20] Voice 6: And you do the best you can,

[1:04:22] Voice 6: you let Trust Council know we can't meet this guideline

[1:04:23] Voice 6: and you ask Trust Council to adjust it.

[1:04:26] Voice 6: And certainly they can do that

[1:04:27] Voice 6: when they look at the budget in December.

[1:04:29] Voice 14: All right, thank you.

[1:04:30] Voice 14: Trustee Evans.

[1:04:33] Voice 5: I was just going to ask us interim CAO

[1:04:37] Voice 5: if I may through the chair.

[1:04:39] Voice 5: Chair, so Chair had asked the question, which reiterated my earlier question, should these

[1:04:50] Voice 5: guidelines be something that can be used year over year versus guidelines that we have to

[1:04:57] Voice 5: come up with every year?

[1:05:01] Voice 6: Guidelines will need to be revisited every year because, of course, our context may change

[1:05:07] Voice 6: each year.

[1:05:08] Voice 6: So if there's a particular guideline that we set and it works, whatever the, you know, the data in that guideline will need to be revisited.

[1:05:19] Voice 6: So, you know, if there's a guideline associated with limiting departmental operating budgets, certainly you can recycle those types of things year over year.

[1:05:29] Voice 6: But the actual fixed number for the increase, I think, should be re-evaluated depending on the context.

[1:05:33] Voice 6: and that's what we see at every other jurisdiction as well is revisiting this on an annual basis

[1:05:44] Voice 6: all

[1:05:48] Voice 13: right um so

[1:05:54] Voice 14: people do we have any proposal i mean let's uh we've had a useful general

[1:05:58] Voice 14: discussion here question before us is do we want to attempt to develop or propose

[1:06:05] Voice 14: for trust council in september a guideline that addresses property taxes trustee evans

[1:06:13] Voice 14: It

[1:06:15] Voice 5: seems to me that there's been a number of people speaking for example number one.

[1:06:21] Voice 5: I think we'll just need to expand it a little bit.

[1:06:23] Voice 5: Like I said, we attempted this one last year, but it was misunderstood by staff.

[1:06:30] Voice 5: So if we had the wording there and then at the end of it say, comma, in all departments excluding fixed costs,

[1:06:42] Voice 5: costs that that might make it a little clearer for this year that's my suggestion uh

[1:06:50] Voice 14: okay but

[1:06:52] Voice 14: why would you want to exclude fixed costs uh

[1:06:56] Voice 5: we can't because we can't we can't reduce our rent

[1:06:59] Voice 5: we can't reduce our hydro bill we can't reduce like fixed costs you can't reduce yes but

[1:07:09] Voice 13: that we can't

[1:07:12] Voice 5: reduce salaries salaries are contracted we can't reduce them

[1:07:17] Voice 14: uh i i take your point but uh i i just wouldn't want the direction to be misunderstood because um

[1:07:25] Voice 14: i guess i suppose it turns on the definition of what a fixed cost is

[1:07:29] Voice 14: if you can't reduce it i'm assuming staff isn't gonna whatever budget scenarios they can come

[1:07:34] Voice 14: up with will take into account the reality of it so i i'm not sure fine that's the point but

[1:07:43] Voice 14: i'm not sure it actually makes um i'm not sure it adds anything i'm not sure about that at all

[1:07:48] Voice 14: I was

[1:07:50] Voice 5: going to ask maybe we could ask for clarification from staff from CAO Mobs if that would be something that would be workable and understood.

[1:07:59] Voice 5: And if not, then if there's other wording that could be proposed.

[1:08:03] Voice 15: Okay, fair enough.

[1:08:04] Voice 14: Interim CAO Mobs, if we as a body decided to recommend something along the lines of the first item, which, frankly, I'm surprised the wording says council will consider.

[1:08:17] Voice 14: that are it sounds more like what staff would need is to be give me a direction to prepare

[1:08:25] Voice 14: production budget reduction scenarios of one or two percent um could you comment on what you've

[1:08:30] Voice 14: just heard from trustee evans as to whether or not we need to specify that it only applies to

[1:08:35] Voice 14: whatever are not fixed costs um

[1:08:40] Voice 6: sure so the the example guideline as worded um you know staff of

[1:08:45] Voice 6: of course, would not be able to recommend changes

[1:08:47] Voice 6: to things like rent that Trustee Evans mentioned,

[1:08:50] Voice 6: because those are fixed costs.

[1:08:51] Voice 6: We've got leases that we've signed.

[1:08:53] Voice 6: So sort of inherent in that guideline

[1:08:57] Voice 6: is the limitation on our ability to look at

[1:09:00] Voice 6: those non-discretionary costs.

[1:09:02] Voice 6: So because of that, the additional wording is not needed,

[1:09:04] Voice 6: but the additional wording also is not harmful

[1:09:08] Voice 6: because it's what we

[1:09:10] Voice 6: would be doing anyway.

[1:09:11] Voice 6: way okay

[1:09:12] Voice 14: thank you uh trustee bowman um

[1:09:17] Voice 4: i i like this proposal let's just do it but i would like

[1:09:22] Voice 4: to point out that um like within our control is the ability to change pretty much anything

[1:09:31] Voice 4: um through changing our work scope and we constantly balk at doing that we just allow

[1:09:40] Voice 4: allow you know work scope to increase and you know just saying that everything we're doing is good

[1:09:47] Voice 4: and should continue to increase and we can't possibly change any of it i mean i can't go

[1:09:52] Voice 4: through the work scope and line by line challenge it the only mechanism we have to change or

[1:09:59] Voice 4: challenge the constant increase in the budget which has gone from six and a half million to

[1:10:06] Voice 4: 10 and a half million over about six years or no probably more than that but anyway um you know

[1:10:13] Voice 4: this is our only this is the only tool that we have to trigger a need to consider you know the

[1:10:22] Voice 4: work scope and i also went and looked at so the cost of living increase the consumer price index

[1:10:29] Voice 4: index at the moment in British Columbia, what's driving it at the moment is the cost of rented

[1:10:36] Voice 4: accommodation and home ownership, both increased, and property taxes and mortgage insurance.

[1:10:46] Voice 4: So if we drive up the property tax, we're contributing to one of the largest items

[1:10:53] Voice 4: in the cost of living index increases.

[1:10:57] Voice 4: So I would propose that we go with the example from Saanich

[1:11:04] Voice 4: if we can agree a number.

[1:11:06] Voice 4: Thanks.

[1:11:08] Voice 15: Thank you.

[1:11:12] Voice 2: Great discussion.

[1:11:14] Voice 2: Yeah, I'm in favor of the budget reduction scenario

[1:11:18] Voice 2: sort of allowing staff to interpret with their judgment

[1:11:26] Voice 2: sorry for the chorus of chickens what would be different scenarios that could reduce the budget

[1:11:33] Voice 2: I think it's really hard to estimate what our fixed costs because what we do when you think

[1:11:40] Voice 2: about mapping GIS information services you know we had a huge bump last year because we had to

[1:11:47] Voice 2: upgrade um the microsoft system and that is the cost of doing business but it's not a fixed cost

[1:11:55] Voice 2: that was like a one-year um upgrade technology is going to always be escalating so i think it

[1:12:02] Voice 2: would be hard to say what is fixed cost and not so i'd rather stay away from that and um allow staff

[1:12:09] Voice 2: to give us their professional advice as to what a different a number of scenarios could look like

[1:12:16] Voice 2: to reduce the budget.

[1:12:19] Voice 15: Christy Evans.

[1:12:21] Voice 2: Thanks.

[1:12:22] Voice 5: Sorry for the side talk here.

[1:12:25] Voice 5: I was just going to say

[1:12:28] Voice 5: the example number one

[1:12:29] Voice 5: is considering budget reduction

[1:12:32] Voice 5: scenarios of one or two percent

[1:12:33] Voice 5: of the proposed tax increase.

[1:12:36] Voice 5: So that will take into account

[1:12:37] Voice 5: things like any new projects

[1:12:40] Voice 5: that have come up.

[1:12:41] Voice 5: It's just it's just taking

[1:12:42] Voice 5: it's considering whether or not

[1:12:45] Voice 5: we can we can achieve

[1:12:46] Voice 5: those reductions.

[1:12:48] Voice 5: interactions i i also like the idea of the second one as well and i don't see a problem with having

[1:12:54] Voice 5: both yeah

[1:13:02] Voice 14: i can see how both actually they're well they're consistent with each other aren't they

[1:13:06] Voice 14: you know so do we have somebody uh you know uh i'm sitting here looking at it and the wording

[1:13:13] Voice 14: is starting to flow through my mind but it's probably not appropriate for me as chair to

[1:13:16] Voice 14: start throwing that out so it seems like we have a consensus here that we need something and that

[1:13:22] Voice 14: that we're kind of orbiting around

[1:13:24] Voice 14: this sort of general language.

[1:13:25] Voice 14: Does anybody have a resolution,

[1:13:27] Voice 14: some language in mind that they think we ought to adopt

[1:13:31] Voice 14: for this, to include into this?

[1:13:37] Voice 14: Trustee Evans.

[1:13:40] Voice 5: I move that staff draft guidelines,

[1:13:47] Voice 5: what are we calling them here, the budget guidelines,

[1:13:51] Voice 5: based on examples one and two.

[1:13:58] Voice 5: I don't know if I need to go much further than that and bring them back to us at our next meeting.

[1:14:10] Voice 14: CEO Mobbs, help me out here. Before anybody seconds that, would staff be able to work with

[1:14:20] Voice 14: that wording or would you need something else?

[1:14:24] Voice 6: Ideally, we could see it on the screen.

[1:14:26] Voice 6: I would recommend wording you know that FPC recommend Council establish a

[1:14:33] Voice 6: guideline of X because of course that's what this committee is doing is

[1:14:38] Voice 6: recommending that Council establish certain guidelines and

[1:14:42] Voice 5: I'm quite happy

[1:14:42] Voice 5: to have everybody help draft this okay before it actually turns into a motion

[1:14:47] Voice 5: okay

[1:14:48] Voice 14: well I'm going to suggest we get that wording put up on the screen and

[1:14:51] Voice 14: that we we cobble together the text of the wording before the motion is seconded

[1:14:57] Voice 14: And

[1:14:58] Voice 5: we can also, if possible, we can copy the two examples and put them in there.

[1:15:07] Voice 14: Yeah, that'll be the starting. That text can be the starting point for the language you put in here.

[1:15:15] Voice 14: It shouldn't take too much once we get it up there, but it will be helpful to see it, see something on the screen.

[1:15:24] Voice 4: May I make a suggestion? Yes.

[1:15:28] Voice 13: Yes.

[1:15:29] Voice 4: Is it possible to take a direct to trust council in September?

[1:15:34] Voice 4: Our meeting isn't until late October and it is generic.

[1:15:39] Voice 4: So it is it doesn't say there's a cap.

[1:15:43] Voice 4: So let's say we take example one and two, make a proposal and take a direct to trust council because we don't have the final say anyway.

[1:15:52] Voice 4: way.

[1:15:52] Voice 14: Well, I think that's the direction, the language that interim CEO Mobs is suggesting.

[1:16:00] Voice 14: I think that's where it takes us because it's a recommendation to Trust Council.

[1:16:06] Voice 14: And

[1:16:06] Voice 5: as requested as well, I'm just going to ask again, can we copy the text from example one and

[1:16:11] Voice 5: two and put it into the motion?

[1:16:12] Voice 14: Yeah. Could we do that, please? And while we're waiting for that

[1:16:19] Voice 14: Word document to come up on the screen, Trustee Peterson?

[1:16:26] Voice 9: Yeah. So as far as the language,

[1:16:30] Voice 9: language it would be that uh Financial Planning Committee recommend to trust Council that it

[1:16:35] Voice 9: establish a 2025-26 budget guideline and then of course I can't see the okay okay

[1:16:43] Voice 9: I'm gonna barge

[1:16:45] Voice 14: in here trustee Peterson because uh we're all orbiting around the same thing we could and

[1:16:51] Voice 14: interim CEO mods that put up some introductory language I think we need to sort of get it that's

[1:16:57] Voice 14: i was using yeah that's what i was using sir okay thank you um so could we actually have a

[1:17:02] Voice 14: word document up here uh that starts i move that fpc etc just the language that

[1:17:10] Voice 14: julia has put up there and and then if we could have the language from those

[1:17:15] Voice 14: two examples that we've been talking about put up on the screen so we can sort of

[1:17:20] Voice 14: fiddle with that language to work it in.

[1:17:24] Voice 1: Chair, I believe I'm showing the draft

[1:17:30] Voice 1: right at the moment, am I not? Does the committee

[1:17:33] Voice 1: see my share?

[1:17:35] Voice 14: Yes. Okay.

[1:17:37] Voice 1: Now it is just

[1:17:37] Voice 1: a question of I need to go into an agenda and find some more text.

[1:17:42] Voice 1: Is that what the committee wishes?

[1:17:43] Voice 14: Before you do that,

[1:17:47] Voice 14: why don't you put in this language? Take out the language you've got highlighted

[1:17:50] Voice 14: and put in, recommend to Trust Council

[1:18:00] Voice 14: that it establish a 2025-26 budget guideline.

[1:18:27] Voice 14: I'm going to wing it here.

[1:18:28] Voice 14: Directing the staff to present options

[1:18:36] Voice 14: for reducing the budget by 1% and 2%

[1:18:45] Voice 14: of any proposed tax increase.

[1:18:47] Voice 14: are

[1:18:57] Voice 4: we not is it not reducing the tax increase by one or two percent by considering budget

[1:19:06] Voice 4: reduction scenarios well

[1:19:09] Voice 14: let's just just let's finish this text up here and then we'll open it

[1:19:12] Voice 14: up for further comments i see trustee evans has her hand up so yeah

[1:19:15] Voice 5: so um you you kind of you

[1:19:17] Voice 5: have changed the intent entirely so i wanted it based on the two examples specifically using the

[1:19:24] Voice 5: language of the two examples? Have

[1:19:27] Voice 14: at it. I'm just trying to get this thing started.

[1:19:30] Voice 5: Yeah, I appreciate that. So basically to present options for reducing the budget

[1:19:37] Voice 5: based on the two examples. No, sorry. Can you go up into the motion that we're working on?

[1:19:52] Voice 1: Yes. Where would you like the words present options to start?

[1:19:55] Voice 5: So remove, remove one or 2% and, and by remove by as well, and change that to based on the

[1:20:13] Voice 5: following two examples, and then copy in the two first two examples from number five on

[1:20:27] Voice 5: page 33.

[1:20:28] Voice 5: So it's page 33, number five, those two.

[1:21:13] Voice 5: Sorry,

[1:21:18] Voice 1: when you say those two, do you mean?

[1:21:20] Voice 5: The first two examples?

[1:21:22] Voice 5: Yes.

[1:21:23] Voice 5: Yes. That one and the next one. Yep.

[1:21:25] Voice 3: Yeah,

[1:21:42] Voice 14: I think you can take out the headings there that says example guideline.

[1:21:45] Voice 5: Yeah. Perfect. Thank you.

[1:22:00] Voice 14: So I see, Julia, you've got your hands up. Please contribute.

[1:22:10] Voice 6: Sure. I'm just actually looking at this wording.

[1:22:13] Voice 6: Well, I'll ask my question first and then I'll examine the wording.

[1:22:15] Voice 6: I do have a question for Trustee Evans.

[1:22:17] Voice 6: um when i look at the two examples to me they say the same thing the first one just establishes

[1:22:27] Voice 6: a percentage an established percentage reduction do you read those differently are you seeing a

[1:22:33] Voice 6: distinction between those two that i'm not seeing i

[1:22:36] Voice 5: believe that uh trustee elliott saw a difference

[1:22:39] Voice 5: between them that's why i said we can propose both if if if you want to use like what i'm saying

[1:22:45] Voice 5: it's just basing it on these two examples so if you come up with a single guideline based on those

[1:22:52] Voice 5: two that would be perfect okay

[1:22:56] Voice 6: yeah as i read it the first one is the same as the second one it's

[1:23:00] Voice 6: just actually establishing a set percentage the um the second example doesn't establish a percentage

[1:23:07] Voice 6: the staff might come back with an option to reduce the budget by half a percent or by seven percent

[1:23:12] Voice 6: the first one is more specific but as by my reading they are achieving the same thing

[1:23:18] Voice 6: one is just specific in the reduction value and the other is not okay so i would then say

[1:23:27] Voice 5: so council will consider budget reduction scenarios of one and two percent of the proposed

[1:23:31] Voice 5: tax increase or high also change council to staff and then of the proposed tax increase or higher

[1:23:43] Voice 5: and then remove the the bottom one because then that sets it as a minimum of one percent and it's

[1:23:54] Voice 5: consider well

[1:23:56] Voice 14: in that case if that's where we're going to go up to the body of that if that's the

[1:24:00] Voice 14: direction we go here where where it says guideline directing staff it should say guideline directing

[1:24:06] Voice 14: staff to prepare uh options for reducing the budget uh by one and two percent of the proposed

[1:24:22] Voice 14: tax increase or higher we

[1:24:32] Voice 13: need by after budget all

[1:24:46] Voice 14: right so we have some language there chair luck

[1:24:50] Voice 14: you have some comments yes

[1:24:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): i do thank you um i'm just trying to think through how this will roll

[1:25:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): out at council and that council understand this fully and i was just looking at the numbers here

[1:25:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): you know on a 10 million dollar budget which surprisingly is what we're talking about and a

[1:25:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): one percent reduction or decrease one percent if i'm not mistaken that's a hundred thousand dollars

[1:25:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): That's probably two significant projects, or, you know, five budgets, projects being reduced by a fairly significant amount. And just, that's an interesting thing to think about. And so I'm just saying that out loud.

[1:25:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): But for clarity of the motion here or understanding is that this would be the option for council to consider the information provided by staff about a one or two percent increase or higher, reducing it to one or two percent by one or two percent.

[1:26:03] Trustee Luckham (probable): This is the proposed recommended budget from financial planning committee.

[1:26:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): We're using the word base budget here somewhere.

[1:26:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): I think maybe we lost that.

[1:26:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): But just wanting to be clear on this is a decision that council owns based upon a recommended budget from financial planning committee.

[1:26:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): Is that correct?

[1:26:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): And does this wording or the understanding of staff capture that?

[1:26:30] Voice 14: Is that directed to interim CEO months?

[1:26:34] Voice 14: Through to the chair, yes.

[1:26:36] Voice 14: Julia?

[1:26:40] Voice 6: I'm not sure that I fully understood your question.

[1:26:46] Voice 6: As I see this, you know, it's happened historically where a financial planning committee has asked staff to provide options, you know, if we wanted to reduce the budget, are there any options that we could look at?

[1:26:58] Voice 6: You know, that is, you know, of course, the decision lies with trustees, so it's a political decision, but staff can assist.

[1:27:05] Voice 6: We've undertaken that exercise historically.

[1:27:07] Voice 6: what I would see is staff would prepare the base budget and would then also present a potential

[1:27:16] Voice 6: list of items that could be considered if we did want to be reducing the budget. And that's sort of

[1:27:22] Voice 6: how we've done it historically. It's far too onerous to actually present three different

[1:27:26] Voice 6: budgets. We would just present, you know, if you want to reduce the budget by 1%, you can consider

[1:27:31] Voice 6: these 10 things and make sure that you're reducing by $100,000, for example. Did that

[1:27:36] Voice 6: answer your question i wasn't quite sure i understood it fully yeah

[1:27:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): if that's all right

[1:27:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): through the chair um yes that does answer it the the concern i have at the end is that everybody

[1:27:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): understands that the base budget is the recommended uh budget from financial planning committee and

[1:27:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): just want to be clear on that language correct

[1:27:58] Voice 6: fpc would still be advancing its recommended budget

[1:28:02] Voice 6: and can advance along with that options to reduce that particular budget super

[1:28:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): thank you very much all

[1:28:09] Voice 14: right thank you now trustee Evans what we I see your

[1:28:12] Voice 14: hand is up again but just so that we're up to speed here where we're at here

[1:28:16] Voice 14: this appears to be the thing that you've moved but nobody has seconded it yet and

[1:28:21] Voice 14: if you wish to make changes to it or have other comments of course time so

[1:28:27] Voice 5: Yeah, exactly. Based on the comment from Chalakam, this is supposed to be on the discretionary budget items, not the entire budget. This is not meant to be applied to fixed cost. So if that's not clear, then we should add in the words discretionary, right? We've got your thingy, discretionary budget line items.

[1:28:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): That's super, Trustee Evans. Thanks.

[1:28:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): And

[1:28:58] Voice 5: then I think that addresses that concern.

[1:29:00] Voice 5: So if people are happy with this now, then I would be happy to actually move the motion.

[1:29:07] Voice 14: Just before you do that, any further comments, Julia, about that last change?

[1:29:17] Voice 6: No, I think, you know, we would naturally be looking at discretionary items anyway.

[1:29:21] Voice 6: The interesting piece about that, of course, is often discretionary items are political, right?

[1:29:27] Voice 6: We've got local trust committees coming forward with their projects.

[1:29:31] Voice 6: And, you know, it's tough for staff to step into that space sometimes to be saying, oh, we recommend that you, you know, cut the project for Cetus Island Local Trust Committee, but retain the one for Denman, for example.

[1:29:43] Voice 6: So, but the budget reduction options provided by staff are always difficult.

[1:29:51] Voice 6: So, you know, I'm not talking about that language.

[1:29:53] Voice 6: We'll only be

[1:29:54] Voice 6: presenting things that are influential or influenceable anyway.

[1:29:58] Voice 14: Okay, that all makes sense.

[1:30:00] Voice 14: thank you for that uh do we have a seconder for this motion sure

[1:30:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): i'll uh second it but i also

[1:30:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): have another remark declared to you there okay

[1:30:13] Voice 14: please proceed with your second remark but i i

[1:30:16] Voice 14: take it you've seconded it is that right that's correct yeah okay and

[1:30:19] Voice 5: i was gonna say point of

[1:30:20] Voice 5: privilege for any for for um for future i haven't actually moved it yet oh

[1:30:25] Voice 14: i thought you had sorry

[1:30:27] Voice 14: sorry.

[1:30:27] Voice 5: No, I said I'm willing to move it, but

[1:30:30] Voice 5: I haven't moved it.

[1:30:31] Voice 14: Well, Trustee Luckin, let's

[1:30:33] Voice 14: pull back for a minute here, and I'm going to recognize Trustee Evans. No, that's great.

[1:30:39] Voice 5: Okay, so have all comments been answered? Yep.

[1:30:44] Voice 5: Okay, so I now move that the Financial Planning

[1:30:48] Voice 5: Committee recommend to Trust Council that it establish a 2025-26 budget guideline directing

[1:30:54] Voice 5: directing staff to prepare options for reducing the discretionary budget line items

[1:30:57] Voice 5: by one and two percent of the proposed tax increase or higher.

[1:31:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): I

[1:31:07] Voice 14: see Trustee Luckham has raised his hand. Are you seconding the motion?

[1:31:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): Yes, and I'd like to speak to the motion, I guess.

[1:31:15] Voice 14: All right. Well, the floor is now open for people who wish to speak to the motion. And

[1:31:18] Voice 14: Trustee Luckham, you're up.

[1:31:19] Voice 14: Yeah,

[1:31:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): just certainly respecting Director Mobb's remarks there about the discretionary items are political and difficult for staff to influence the outcome of the funding available.

[1:31:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): But it is staff ultimately that create the business case based upon the wishes of the LTC to do some particular work. And so I don't know that that's terribly challenging to say, is there space in that business case to facilitate a reduction of 1%, which may be one less meeting or whatever, based upon the discussion of an LTC.

[1:32:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): And it could be very well that that's not possible, but perhaps it is so not too concerned about that political piece.

[1:32:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): And maybe I'm wrong there, but business cases are created by staff for endorsement of the LTC, if I'm not mistaken.

[1:32:19] Voice 14: Do we have any further comments on the motion? Trustee Graham.

[1:32:23] Voice 10: Thank you, Chair. I am speaking in favor of the motion,

[1:32:26] Voice 10: But I just want to suggest that our concern that reducing the discretionary budget, which tends to be projects, doesn't negate the opportunity for an island to apply for this special tax levy.

[1:32:39] Voice 10: If they have a large project that they want to engage themselves in, they can go to their community and they can say, look, build a case, ask that island if it wants to see their taxes increase, and then spend that money exclusively on that special project.

[1:32:53] Voice 10: Salt Springs is the only island I know of that's actually taken advantage of this.

[1:32:58] Voice 10: And I think it's worked really, really well.

[1:33:00] Voice 10: And it's maybe something that we haven't relied on enough in the past.

[1:33:05] Voice 10: Rather than having the entire federation spend their money on a project which has no benefit of them at all,

[1:33:11] Voice 10: I can understand some of the reluctance of some islands to think this is a good idea.

[1:33:15] Voice 10: On the other hand, if a local trust committee thinks this is a great idea and it can get their community behind them,

[1:33:20] Voice 10: then you have the opportunity to tax it themselves.

[1:33:24] Voice 14: Thank you. Any further comments? I'm going to put the motion to a vote. Those in favor, please raise your hands. Please now lower your hands. Those who are opposed to the motion, please raise your hands. It appears that the motion passes unanimously. Thank you, everybody. Let's move on to the next item here.

[1:33:53] Voice 14: here i see it's 11 35 we've been going for an hour and a half by the way um we have some more

[1:34:02] Voice 14: work to do and i imagine people are going to want to break for lunch at some point do we want to

[1:34:06] Voice 14: have a break now or do we want to break for an early lunch now and come back at 12 or something

[1:34:10] Voice 14: or any suggestions but how we want to deal with this trustee evans

[1:34:16] Voice 5: let's go through the the next

[1:34:19] Voice 5: uh set because i think it's going to be fairly easy until we get to 13 we'll see how we are

[1:34:24] Voice 5: other. And maybe we can have a chat and break at 12.

[1:34:27] Voice 14: All right, let's do it that way. Then let's

[1:34:29] Voice 14: put the agenda back up on the screen. So we can keep looking at the budget assumptions and

[1:34:36] Voice 14: principles and guidelines. Item six is where we're at now. Interim CEO, please, please continue the

[1:34:46] Voice 14: review.

[1:34:49] Voice 6: Okay, so item number six talks to the non market change that we see in the property tax

[1:34:52] Voice 6: tax base each year. So we will be taking that into account in the budget draft as usual.

[1:34:57] Voice 6: Non-market change, of course, reflects the impact to property values or the property tax base that

[1:35:03] Voice 6: are from things like new construction. There's no guidelines there. It's really just a data point.

[1:35:09] Voice 6: Special tax requisitions is item number seven. So Trustee Graham just mentioned that that

[1:35:13] Voice 6: continues to be a tool that's available for local trust committees if they wish to

[1:35:17] Voice 6: to requisition for a particular project by a special levy.

[1:35:21] Voice 6: A project that's proposed as part of the base budget

[1:35:23] Voice 6: that trust council decides in December,

[1:35:26] Voice 6: not to fund from the base budget,

[1:35:29] Voice 6: can then move through to the community engagement

[1:35:33] Voice 6: or consultation portion to then receive approval

[1:35:36] Voice 6: for special tax levy in March.

[1:35:39] Voice 6: We are assuming that there's no policy changes

[1:35:41] Voice 6: to the municipal tax requisition calculation,

[1:35:43] Voice 6: which impacts the property tax levy to Bowen Island.

[1:35:46] Voice 6: that's item number eight. Item number nine speaks to our investment income. We are anticipating

[1:35:51] Voice 6: continued reductions in interest rates out in the market, and so we are assuming that we might have

[1:35:56] Voice 6: a slight reduction in our investment income next year over what we've seen historically,

[1:36:01] Voice 6: and we'll reflect that based on interest rate forecasts. Item number 10 is other grant funding.

[1:36:08] Voice 6: I'm

[1:36:08] Voice 14: sorry, can we go back a step, please, to item nine? The last sentence there is it assumes that

[1:36:15] Voice 14: we're assuming that sustainable investment vehicles will be secured for a portion

[1:36:19] Voice 14: of invested funds to align with trust values. I'm not sure I understand what that means.

[1:36:28] Voice 14: We're going to have surplus to invest, and it talks about securing a portion of them,

[1:36:35] Voice 14: but it doesn't say how much to align with trust values. I'm not quite sure I know what that means.

[1:36:42] Voice 14: Could you explain that, please?

[1:36:44] Voice 6: Sure.

[1:36:45] Voice 6: So we currently invest a portion of trust surplus, generally a few hundred thousand

[1:36:51] Voice 6: dollars in a vehicle that's called an impact GIC.

[1:36:55] Voice 6: So what this is, is investments with lenders and companies who are actually engaged in

[1:37:02] Voice 6: sustainable work.

[1:37:04] Voice 6: So they are reviewed and making sure that they are ethical organizations or they are

[1:37:11] Voice 6: are advancing initiatives that align with the trust mandate. So that's what we mean by investing

[1:37:16] Voice 6: a small amount of our funds in vehicles that align with trust values. So the Islands Trust

[1:37:21] Voice 6: Conservancy is really keen on this, and they also invest a portion of their funds in impact GICs,

[1:37:26] Voice 6: as opposed to just GICs through your normal banks.

[1:37:30] Voice 14: Is there a yield difference? Generally,

[1:37:33] Voice 6: not significant. We've maybe sort of seen a half a percentage point difference. And that's why it's

[1:37:40] Voice 6: it's only a portion of our funds that are invested there

[1:37:42] Voice 6: and not the full value.

[1:37:43] Voice 6: The other reason it's just a portion

[1:37:45] Voice 6: is because there's often not a market

[1:37:48] Voice 6: for actually millions of dollars with impact GICs.

[1:37:50] Voice 6: Sometimes there's only a need

[1:37:51] Voice 6: for smaller levels of funding.

[1:37:54] Voice 14: Okay, thank you.

[1:37:56] Voice 14: Trustee Luckham.

[1:37:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): Thank you, Chair.

[1:37:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): You might just entertain me for a moment.

[1:38:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): Just a moment.

[1:38:03] Voice 14: We don't want a big discussion here

[1:38:05] Voice 14: or a big, frankly, speech

[1:38:07] Voice 14: about how we've done things in the past.

[1:38:09] Voice 14: Let's stay focused on this specific item.

[1:38:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): Absolutely. Silly me. I thought that this was something about returning the concept that we should be acquiring electric vehicles for staff use. Back to you.

[1:38:26] Voice 14: Wow. I'm not going to comment on that. Item 10, please, interim CAO.

[1:38:31] Voice 14: Item

[1:38:35] Voice 6: 10, simply speaking to other grant funding. So if we obtain additional grant funding throughout the year, we of course will reflect that in the draft budget.

[1:38:45] Voice 6: item number 11 is looking at inflation so unfortunately we are not exempt from

[1:38:51] Voice 6: the impacts of rising costs of goods and so we will be looking at inflation

[1:38:56] Voice 6: factors as of December which is in line with policy and be incorporating those

[1:39:00] Voice 6: into the budget as applicable on those areas of spending that are impacted by

[1:39:05] Voice 6: this item number 12 speaks to staffing levels so when we prepare the budget we

[1:39:12] Voice 6: do assume that any decreases in staff would impact our ability to achieve our

[1:39:16] Voice 6: work and any new functions or services may need additional staffing or any areas of under-resourcing

[1:39:22] Voice 6: may need additional staffing if there are any new staff positions that are being brought forward of

[1:39:27] Voice 6: course some management brings those forward and they are then for the committee's review and then

[1:39:34] Voice 6: trust council's review and approval so there's an example guideline in this area as well so we have

[1:39:39] Voice 6: some examples from the district of Saanich district of Saanich has formally given guidelines

[1:39:44] Voice 6: guidelines considering resourcing needs for the long-term staffing plan.

[1:39:47] Voice 6: So Islands Trust doesn't have a long-term staffing plan.

[1:39:50] Voice 6: So, of course, that's a harder one for us to embrace.

[1:39:55] Voice 6: The District of Saanich also considers

[1:39:57] Voice 6: resourcing needs to continue implementation of its climate action plan.

[1:40:01] Voice 6: So that's one that's fairly easy for Islands Trust to adopt.

[1:40:05] Voice 6: We can amend the wording to be aligned with our particular plans.

[1:40:09] Voice 6: So, for example, a guideline might be that council considers resourcing needs to

[1:40:13] Voice 6: implement the Reconciliation Action Plan, properly resource the approved strategic plan

[1:40:19] Voice 6: that's moving forward, or resourcing any other initiative that's underway.

[1:40:25] Voice 6: Currently, we are aware of conversations that have started and will continue at the executive

[1:40:31] Voice 6: committee level, who, as we've heard today, are expressing support for adding some additional

[1:40:36] Voice 6: resources to enhance the service delivery of the Trust Area Services team.

[1:40:40] Voice 6: There's some big projects underway with that team, and there's been limited ability to

[1:40:43] Voice 6: achieve all of the work product that's on the plate of that particular business unit.

[1:40:48] Voice 6: And so that's noted as something that staff are aware that is likely to come forward.

[1:40:53] Voice 6: Because there's an example guideline here, we can pause and have that discussion now.

[1:40:58] Voice 14: Yes, I think that would be appropriate because, of course, as we all know, Trustee Boland

[1:41:04] Voice 14: has a perennial concern about our staffing appetite which seems endless at least from her

[1:41:10] Voice 14: point of view so this is the right time I mean if we've got trustees who want to discuss

[1:41:17] Voice 14: the merits of having guidelines that address staffing levels and the approach we should take

[1:41:25] Voice 14: to staffing whether it should be restrictive or more generous now's the time trustee Evans

[1:41:31] Voice 5: Thank you. I'm also just going to have a word of caution here. We've got five other sections

[1:41:37] Voice 5: in this area for discussion. So we might want to be a little cognizant of time too.

[1:41:44] Voice 5: My question, which got answered by interim mobs, was that we do not have a long-term staffing plan.

[1:41:51] Voice 5: Is it possible for us to request that a long-term staffing plan be created? Because every year we

[1:41:58] Voice 5: We get requests for numerous staffing positions, and I think it would be a really good idea to attempt to identify a long term staffing plan, because sometimes if staffing positions are not approved one year, then they'll flow into the next one.

[1:42:16] Voice 5: So, you know, there is a possibility of maybe a short term staffing plan for the next five years versus I don't know how long a long term plan is.

[1:42:24] Voice 5: So would it be possible to create something like that and to request that that be done?

[1:42:32] Voice 14: Interim CAO Mobs, could you please respond to that?

[1:42:37] Voice 6: I'm happy to. So implementing any sort of short term or long term staffing plan does hinge on council's plans.

[1:42:45] Voice 6: You know, there needs to be an understanding of what council wants to undertake and where it's going in order for us to be able to understand the staff's resourcing needs in the short term and the long term.

[1:42:55] Voice 6: Currently, we're working with a somewhat outdated strategic plan. The reconciliation action plan

[1:43:00] Voice 6: is not currently updated. The policy statement is not finalized, so understanding implementation

[1:43:06] Voice 6: of that piece of work is unknown at this juncture. So it's a bit difficult for us to establish a

[1:43:14] Voice 6: really sound long-term staffing plan at this juncture. We can certainly be looking at

[1:43:18] Voice 6: work that's currently underway to see if we have adequate resources even for what we're doing now.

[1:43:23] Voice 6: now. Certainly in area trust area services we've already identified that maybe there's

[1:43:28] Voice 6: a lack there. Part of corporate planning is to advance the approved strategic plan to

[1:43:36] Voice 6: the directors of each business unit and have those directors put together departmental

[1:43:40] Voice 6: work plans. So understanding what council wants to achieve strategically, marry that

[1:43:45] Voice 6: up with what we know the corporate initiatives are and then put together work plans will

[1:43:50] Voice 6: will actually drive what the staffing needs are.

[1:43:53] Voice 6: So it's absolutely something we can do.

[1:43:55] Voice 6: It's something that we should be doing

[1:43:57] Voice 6: into the future as part of our corporate planning.

[1:44:00] Voice 6: We can start it,

[1:44:01] Voice 6: but I think we've got a few gaps at the moment.

[1:44:05] Voice 14: Thank you.

[1:44:06] Voice 14: Trustee Elliott.

[1:44:09] Voice 2: Yeah, I just wanted to speak a little bit to this issue

[1:44:12] Voice 2: because while I'm not in favor of adding staff positions,

[1:44:16] Voice 2: positions this past year I've really seen how critically it's affected our work and our

[1:44:23] Voice 2: operations on multiple levels to not have backfilled the policy advisor position we had a

[1:44:30] Voice 2: brief window of support with I believe it was Mary Storzer who came in as an acting policy advisor

[1:44:36] Voice 2: and I was able to see what she could accomplish drafting the resolution doing the work

[1:44:43] Voice 2: work, to advance the composting toilets review, which is actually critical for housing in

[1:44:50] Voice 2: the Islands Trust area, having a policy advisor who knows where to go for the right information

[1:45:01] Voice 2: to support our coordination with other agencies and ministries is actually critical.

[1:45:06] Voice 2: And so where I've also seen this lack really is not serving us at the local trust committee level, is we just can't get letters written.

[1:45:18] Voice 2: I've got at least three or four outstanding ones from different LTCs that I chair or from Gabriola on advocacy positions where we want, you know, our communities want to see something done.

[1:45:29] Voice 2: And we can't get those letters written because they have to align with policy.

[1:45:33] Voice 2: they they can't sound stupid and you need somebody in that role so um i'm just i'm really regretting

[1:45:42] Voice 2: that we didn't backfill and have somebody in a policy advisor role because it really is affecting

[1:45:49] Voice 2: our operations um we are a government that depends on communication and coordination with other

[1:45:56] Voice 2: other agencies.

[1:45:57] Voice 14: Okay, Trustee Elliott, what is the point here with respect to this issue?

[1:46:01] Voice 2: I'm just saying this is, it doesn't look like it's operational when you add a policy advisor,

[1:46:10] Voice 2: but it is because it's part of the coordination function of the Islands Trust. And so if a

[1:46:14] Voice 2: business case comes forward, there is a really good reason. And I've got probably eight to 10

[1:46:19] Voice 2: pieces of work that don't get done because we haven't got that role filled. Thanks.

[1:46:28] Voice 14: Trustee Elliott, your comments intersect with the perennial issue we also have,

[1:46:32] Voice 14: which is insufficient resourcing for many of our projects isn't entirely a question of not

[1:46:41] Voice 14: having enough staff. If we have infinite staff, we can do infinite things, but we can't afford it.

[1:46:45] Voice 14: It comes down to the cost benefit issue and not looking at staffing in a disciplined way

[1:46:57] Voice 14: is the consequence of not setting us as an organization of setting priorities and i think

[1:47:02] Voice 14: this intersects with what interim ceo mums is talking about which is the corporate planning

[1:47:08] Voice 14: initiative is necessary to be we need to have that in place so that we actually are in a position

[1:47:15] Voice 14: to understand what our long-term needs actually are and then we can staff them trustee bollins

[1:47:21] Voice 14: um

[1:47:24] Voice 4: yeah i i feel indeed the need for a proper um staffing plan i feel that the staff organization

[1:47:38] Voice 4: and the completeness of the skills that we have and the resources we have is completely and utterly

[1:47:47] Voice 4: opaque and we don't have any kind of organogram that actually describes what the SAS structure

[1:47:56] Voice 4: is that's up to date we don't have a description matched to that of the different roles I see

[1:48:03] Voice 4: emails that say you know this position was filled this position is now empty this person

[1:48:08] Voice 4: switched from here to there and I see you know all of the words that we use about advocacy

[1:48:15] Voice 4: advocacy policy um research legislative monitoring like all of those to me have become a kind of word

[1:48:24] Voice 4: salad that are applied to new staff positions and i don't have a picture that really and my

[1:48:33] Voice 4: suggestion would be that we uh freeze uh we we don't accept applications for new positions until

[1:48:43] Voice 4: Until we have transparency about the current resourcing levels, the vacancies that are filled and, you know, a real even without a long term strategy that we get a current base picture of exactly what exists and what the skills are so that we can look at the gaps properly.

[1:49:06] Voice 4: Okay, thanks.

[1:49:09] Voice 14: Professor Peterson?

[1:49:12] Voice 9: I do support the notion of setting up staffing plans.

[1:49:21] Voice 9: I think that's a good part of planning,

[1:49:25] Voice 9: and I am hopeful that the corporate planning processes

[1:49:29] Voice 9: that we move into that and roll that out

[1:49:32] Voice 9: can be informed by such a plan.

[1:49:35] Voice 9: I would like to echo some of what Trustee Elliott said in particular around the Trust Area Services staffing.

[1:49:47] Voice 9: From an LTC perspective specifically, the delay in getting letters out,

[1:49:56] Voice 9: um uh one of the probably the most egregious i can come up with was from uh an ltc which i chair

[1:50:05] Voice 9: which we received a letter from the minister in january um the reply took until august to get out

[1:50:14] Voice 9: um that's pretty darn bad that's that's the worst example but um on a regular basis

[1:50:21] Voice 9: crisis correspondence is taking months to achieve. I'm not the expert at understanding how to

[1:50:30] Voice 9: allocate staff resources within trust area services. However, I do know the policy statement

[1:50:38] Voice 9: project is consuming a large amount of what staffing resources we do have. So, in this example,

[1:50:46] Voice 9: For example, it's hard for me to say that supporting trust area services with another staff member is discretionary when the lack of that staff capacity is harming our organization.

[1:51:03] Voice 9: It's harming our organization in terms of our ability to respond to the province, the ministers, to First Nations and other correspondents in a timely manner.

[1:51:16] Voice 9: And quite frankly, if I was on the receiving end of these letters, these responses coming in months late, I would take it very poorly.

[1:51:27] Voice 9: Yes, President.

[1:51:28] Voice 14: I'll leave it at that.

[1:51:29] Voice 14: Yeah, we have your point, but there's an assumption in your comment that deserves to be unpacked, which is what you just described, which is a delay from a letter received in January, no response except from us, except eight months later.

[1:51:48] Voice 14: I would be cautious about attributing something like that to a lack of staffing.

[1:51:52] Voice 14: That may be one of the issues, but I think we can all agree that type of delay is simply atrocious.

[1:51:59] Voice 14: It shouldn't happen. Whatever the staffing requirements are, it does raise a question

[1:52:05] Voice 14: about management. It's a question of managing the staff that's already there. And, you know,

[1:52:12] Voice 14: I've got to be upfront. That's a shocking example. It's inexcusable. It doesn't make

[1:52:17] Voice 14: any difference how many staff that we have. Something like that, we should have work floor

[1:52:22] Voice 14: performance measures that simply just make that impossible. Internally, the setting of priorities,

[1:52:28] Voice 14: the operational setting of priorities resulted in this.

[1:52:31] Voice 14: Now that's a misapplication of priorities somehow,

[1:52:35] Voice 14: and I'm not blaming anybody in particular,

[1:52:37] Voice 14: but we've got to do a better job

[1:52:39] Voice 14: of just managing the way we have now

[1:52:40] Voice 14: before we can get there.

[1:52:42] Voice 14: Do you want to comment on my little screed there?

[1:52:45] Voice 14: Yeah,

[1:52:45] Voice 9: just a quick reply, if I may.

[1:52:50] Voice 9: I would encourage anyone that has any questions about this

[1:52:54] Voice 9: to talk to the Director of Trust Area Services

[1:52:57] Voice 9: And get a sense of how that particular business unit, how the staffing levels are affecting the variety of work that's assigned by Trust Council, by committees to that unit.

[1:53:15] Voice 9: Again, I'll just mention, you want a quick blow by, go and look at the follow-up action lists.

[1:53:21] Voice 9: Yeah.

[1:53:22] Voice 9: I encourage you all to inform yourself a little bit about how that unit.

[1:53:26] Voice 14: Okay,

[1:53:27] Voice 9: we are limited

[1:53:28] Voice 14: in time. We have the point. Julia, you've got a comment.

[1:53:35] Voice 6: Yes, just briefly. Thank you, Chair. Just in relation to this topic, it was brought forward

[1:53:40] Voice 6: to Trust Council during the approval of the funding for the policy statement that this

[1:53:46] Voice 6: was a big piece of work, a significant undertaking, and there was a staff suggestion to backfill

[1:53:53] Voice 6: the policy advisor position to make sure that other pieces of work were not sort of left

[1:54:00] Voice 6: left without a staff person focused on them and so that's contributed to these delays and it was

[1:54:06] Voice 6: brought forward to trust counsel and of course there were budget pressures and the desire to

[1:54:10] Voice 6: not be adding any additional staff persons and so the decision was made not to backfill that

[1:54:15] Voice 6: position so trust counsel has the ability to not necessarily solve a lot of these things but

[1:54:20] Voice 6: but certainly to influence our ability to advance our work in a good way.

[1:54:24] Voice 6: The guideline that's presented, the example guideline in item number 12,

[1:54:29] Voice 6: that is the District of Saanich choosing to properly resource its plans,

[1:54:34] Voice 6: which I think is a sound business practice.

[1:54:37] Voice 6: If you implement a plan and you want to achieve it,

[1:54:41] Voice 6: it always makes sense to properly resource it.

[1:54:43] Voice 6: There is a guideline further on in the agenda package

[1:54:46] Voice 6: that looks at properly resourcing the strategic plan

[1:54:50] Voice 6: related to this one as well.

[1:54:56] Voice 14: Trustee Luckham.

[1:54:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): Yeah, just in the respecting the time

[1:55:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): that we're spending on this,

[1:55:03] Trustee Luckham (probable): this is a whole bigger conversation to have.

[1:55:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): I think it's unfair to suggest

[1:55:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): that there's not sufficient documentation

[1:55:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): that describes the organization.

[1:55:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): I think council and we need to take ownership

[1:55:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): of what it is we're asking staff to do.

[1:55:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): And I think most significantly,

[1:55:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): more than anything that's unaccounted for is simply the turnover in staff has debilitated

[1:55:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): the ability in inhibited the ability for staff to be able to advance the work that they too know

[1:55:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): is important and they are not happy about not being able to deliver but council determines

[1:55:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): the priorities and that's how it happens there you go trustee bowman

[1:55:48] Voice 4: so uh similarly to the

[1:55:52] Voice 4: The earlier request that budget reductions are considered generated by staff.

[1:56:00] Voice 4: Is it possible for could we ask the staff and actually challenge the work scope and look for opportunities to suggest things that have low value versus the things that have higher value?

[1:56:18] Voice 4: you because we we do add add add and we don't challenge things that are part of just oh that's

[1:56:26] Voice 4: the way we always did it and i would welcome suggestions from staff that really cut through

[1:56:33] Voice 4: some of that tangle and just respond to trustee luckham if you have documentation that describes

[1:56:41] Voice 4: the organization clearly and who is in what position and what their actual jobs and roles

[1:56:47] Voice 4: are, I'd be very glad to see it. But I do think we could ask staff to suggest pruning the list

[1:56:57] Voice 4: of things we always do, because that's what we always did. Thank you.

[1:57:03] Voice 14: If I may interject here before we get to you, Trustee Evans. Interim CAO Mobs, we've heard from

[1:57:11] Voice 14: from um trustee bowen a number of times over the past year and a half or so a request for

[1:57:19] Voice 14: what she calls an organogram which is basically a diagram of what all our staffing positions are

[1:57:24] Voice 14: and you know identifying who does what and how many people are allocated to which unit and that

[1:57:29] Voice 14: sort of thing do we have such a thing and if not can can staff simply develop one and provide it

[1:57:34] Voice 14: i mean it's i know that trustee bowen isn't the only person who'd be very keen on seeing

[1:57:39] Voice 14: seeing that because that gives trustees would give trustees a much better sense

[1:57:47] Voice 14: of how staff is being allocated and where um you know where our decisions as a trust council

[1:57:55] Voice 14: have taken the organization so with that organigram is it possible to come up with that

[1:58:00] Voice 14: um

[1:58:02] Voice 6: so we do have an org chart which is public which does um indicate the number of staff

[1:58:08] Voice 6: staff and the roles by business unit. So that is available on our website. If for some reason

[1:58:15] Voice 6: it's not there, please let us know because it should be. And that will give you a sense of

[1:58:20] Voice 6: the numbers of staff per business unit and the types of staff. Understanding what each of those

[1:58:26] Voice 6: staff is doing is, you know, we don't have kind of a one-stop shop, a single document that explains

[1:58:33] Voice 6: that. Certainly our job postings are all public when they're up with the job description. So

[1:58:38] Voice 6: So there's transparency sort of ad hoc.

[1:58:41] Voice 6: The creation of a summarized document with all of the tasks of all the different types

[1:58:46] Voice 6: of positions in the organization would be a bit of work to put together.

[1:58:50] Voice 6: If that's a priority, we could take that on.

[1:58:52] Voice 14: All right.

[1:58:53] Voice 14: Thank you.

[1:58:54] Voice 14: Trustee Evans?

[1:58:56] Voice 5: Yeah.

[1:58:57] Voice 5: So listening to the conversation, I don't think that we're going to reach a consensus

[1:59:01] Voice 5: on anything here at the moment that's going to be anything that's workable.

[1:59:04] Voice 5: we do have the corporate plan that is in progress that will help address some of these questions

[1:59:09] Voice 5: we've also got the strategic plan that we're going to be looking at in September and part of the

[1:59:15] Voice 5: corporate plan and part of the strategic plan is to prioritize the workload for staff once we have

[1:59:22] Voice 5: prioritized it then staff know what to focus on and the other items if they're if they can be

[1:59:28] Voice 5: be fitted in then they get fit in if they can't then they don't so it's up to us to manage how

[1:59:34] Voice 5: much work we send to staff so yeah I'd say let's keep working on the strategic plan and let's keep

[1:59:41] Voice 5: working on the corporate plan and then also we've got the new CAO that'll be coming in so

[1:59:47] Voice 5: there'll be there might be some other adjustments that happen along the way too as those things get

[1:59:53] Voice 5: identified from the from the position. So I'd say at this point I would

[2:00:00] Voice 5: that we move on to the next item because

[2:00:03] Voice 14: i don't see it's getting very far i'm inclined to agree

[2:00:05] Voice 14: with you trustee evans i don't see an emerging consensus on taking some kind of positive action

[2:00:12] Voice 14: in terms of developing a a guideline at this point what we've heard is once we are in a position to

[2:00:20] Voice 14: have a long-term staffing plan which turns on having a functional corporate plan then we're

[2:00:28] Voice 14: to be in a position to speak intelligibly about providing some guidance with respect to staffing

[2:00:33] Voice 14: levels and we don't seem to be there yet so uh i take your point i think you're right uh i nobody's

[2:00:39] Voice 14: made a resolution i don't see one coming so i think the discussion on item 12 here is concluded

[2:00:44] Voice 14: and it turns out it's at it's 12 p.m and uh i am optimistic that we will be able to end the

[2:00:51] Voice 14: meeting before the scheduled time of three o'clock god help us but uh i am uh proposing that we break

[2:00:58] Voice 14: for um well do we want a half hour or 45 minutes for lunch anybody who's got strong views please

[2:01:05] Voice 14: just pipe up right now half

[2:01:07] Voice 5: hour half

[2:01:08] Voice 14: hour trustee evans half

[2:01:10] Voice 5: an hour we've got a lot to get through

[2:01:12] Voice 14: okay uh we will reconvene at 12 30 uh the meeting is uh recessed until then thank you everybody

[2:01:26] Voice 2: trustee Graham your mic is still on just in case you're going for lunch thank you

[2:01:33] Voice 2: good mute him hello everybody

[2:29:54] Voice 15: it's 12 30.

[2:30:00] Voice 14: And we are now resuming this meeting of the Financial Planning Committee, where we left things before we had finished our consideration of item 12 on the list of budget assumptions, principles, and guidelines.

[2:30:17] Voice 14: Interim CAO

[2:30:19] Voice 15: Mobs, perhaps we could just continue and move on to item 13.

[2:30:41] Voice 15: Hello, do we not have Interim CAO Mobs?

[2:30:47] Voice 15: it

[2:30:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): says she's connecting to audio okay

[2:30:53] Voice 13: here we are interim

[2:31:02] Voice 14: ceo mobs uh where i had left it was

[2:31:04] Voice 14: to hand it over to you to uh introduce and just briefly uh start speaking to item 13 happy to

[2:31:15] Voice 6: chair thanks i've got some uh tech malfunctions happening at my end so please do feel free to

[2:31:20] Voice 6: stop me um if my audio um is problematic um so we

[2:31:26] Voice 6: were um okay so we were at item number 13 i

[2:31:32] Voice 6: I believe we had moved

[2:31:33] Voice 6: on from 12. Correct.

[2:31:35] Voice 6: Okay. So item number 13, simply looking at how we will

[2:31:39] Voice 6: calculate staff salaries and benefits costs, which of course is related to staffing levels,

[2:31:43] Voice 6: but not identical. So traditional assumptions and principles will be that staff will draft

[2:31:49] Voice 6: the budget based on increases for staff, according to the union agreement, as well as anticipated

[2:31:56] Voice 6: increases for excluded staff based on information from the public service agency. So the example

[2:32:02] Voice 6: guideline from the district of Spanish essentially says the same thing that existing personal costs

[2:32:06] Voice 6: are calculated using known bargaining rates this particular year we don't know at this point what

[2:32:12] Voice 6: the bargaining rate increase might be the union agreement for next fiscal and beyond has not yet

[2:32:16] Voice 6: been established and so staff will be making an estimate for that amount until there is a union

[2:32:23] Voice 6: agreement that is agreed to and signed between the union and the province so the guidelines there

[2:32:30] Voice 6: from District of Saanich there's two of them the first one as I said are related to existing

[2:32:33] Voice 6: bargaining unit rates and the second is related to funding for salary and benefits costs that are

[2:32:39] Voice 6: arriving from job description changes and the District of Saanich is saying that any job

[2:32:43] Voice 6: description changes must be funded from within existing budgets so I'll turn it back to the

[2:32:49] Voice 6: committee for discussion on this particular one. A

[2:32:52] Voice 15: question about that

[2:32:53] Voice 14: on that second item when it

[2:32:55] Voice 14: it says that job description changes must be provided

[2:32:59] Voice 14: from within the existing budgets.

[2:33:01] Voice 14: Does that include increases in salary

[2:33:06] Voice 14: further to collective bargaining outcomes

[2:33:10] Voice 14: like we just had two years ago

[2:33:12] Voice 14: in terms of the increase in salaries

[2:33:14] Voice 14: for that were negotiated with the BCGEU?

[2:33:18] Voice 6: No, so that would be the base increases for all staff

[2:33:22] Voice 6: that are established from the union agreement.

[2:33:25] Voice 6: What this is in reference to is where we change the job description of a particular staff role, that sometimes will impact their classification within the union agreement.

[2:33:35] Voice 6: So if we give more responsibilities to someone who's classified at a clerk level nine, that might actually make their job position now classified at a 12, and therefore they would be receiving a higher level of pay.

[2:33:49] Voice 14: Okay. And I take it we don't, you know, the first bullet item under what Sanage does,

[2:33:54] Voice 14: we effectively have that assumption built into it already. What we don't do right now is have

[2:34:00] Voice 14: a guideline or assumption with respect to the second bullet. Is that right?

[2:34:04] Voice 14: Correct.

[2:34:06] Voice 14: All right. I'm opening a four up for any comments. Anybody, you know, these are examples of things

[2:34:12] Voice 14: that we might wish to consider having guidelines on. Any comments or questions for Director Moms

[2:34:19] Voice 14: here i'm surprised that i mean this is a this is an area for the fiscally thrifty to sort of zero

[2:34:38] Voice 14: in on sort of keeping the tax rate down by looking at that second item if anybody's interested we do

[2:34:44] Voice 6: have two hands raised chair trustee evans and peterson okay

[2:34:47] Voice 14: i'm having trouble with my screen

[2:34:49] Voice 14: here because of my incompetence um i see that thank you for that um julia uh trustee evans

[2:34:55] Voice 14: Thank

[2:34:58] Voice 5: you. Just a question for Julia Mobs, if I may, through the chair. If

[2:35:04] Voice 5: we did put something in like the second bullet, is that going to have a significant impact on how we do things currently?

[2:35:14] Voice 5: currently?

[2:35:17] Voice 6: Not that I am aware of. I'm not aware of significant changes to job descriptions that

[2:35:27] Voice 6: might be coming forward. It's one of those things that again is established by the public service

[2:35:31] Voice 6: agency. So where we identify a need to amend a staff job position, or if a staff person puts

[2:35:37] Voice 6: in an appeal on their own saying I'm being asked to do these things that are not currently my job

[2:35:41] Voice 6: opposition, then a reclassification is sort of forced upon us. There's a few that might be going

[2:35:49] Voice 6: forward that I've heard of, but at this point, we don't know what the result might be. We do always

[2:35:55] Voice 6: include in our salaries budget a reduction for staff turnover. So, you know, it's possible if

[2:36:03] Voice 6: we did receive something back and the public service agency says, yes, these jobs need to

[2:36:06] Voice 6: to be reclassified, we could potentially look at reducing that reduction amount for staff turnover

[2:36:12] Voice 6: to offset that.

[2:36:14] Voice 5: Okay, thank you. And then my second part is, if we did put something like

[2:36:19] Voice 5: this wording into place, then basically what that would do is ensure that any reclassifications

[2:36:27] Voice 5: come forward as a budget line item request change in the next budget system cycle, correct?

[2:36:34] Voice 5: Correct.

[2:36:37] Voice 6: When you say next budget cycle, are you talking this one?

[2:36:41] Voice 6: No. So,

[2:36:41] Voice 5: for example, you said that there might be some people you don't know yet.

[2:36:45] Voice 5: So in the middle of the budget cycle, there may be some people going forward for reclassification that's going to result in a change in their salary.

[2:36:51] Voice 5: salary if

[2:36:53] Voice 5: those things if we had something like this in existence basically what that would mean

[2:36:57] Voice 5: is anyone that was going forward for a salary range change would be part of the next budget

[2:37:08] Voice 5: cycle so there would be a delay in them getting that position and getting that salary change

[2:37:14] Voice 5: no

[2:37:16] Voice 6: the way it works with the public service agency is the day the classification is made

[2:37:21] Voice 6: it as the day it becomes effective. And actually, in many instances, it's backdated. So if there's

[2:37:26] Voice 6: a demonstration that a staff person has actually been performing these higher level duties already

[2:37:32] Voice 6: into history, they will sometimes backdate it. So it's not something that we can influence and say,

[2:37:36] Voice 6: okay, we'll start

[2:37:37] Voice 5: it at a later date. So then this wording be can't do is what you're saying.

[2:37:43] Voice 6: If we were to achieve it, it would mean reductions in other budget areas or

[2:37:48] Voice 6: amending how much we reduce the salaries budget for for that turnover factor.

[2:37:54] Voice 6: Thank you.

[2:37:56] Voice 15: Trustee Peterson?

[2:37:59] Voice 9: Yeah, thank you, Chair.

[2:38:00] Voice 9: Yeah, on the face of it, these guidelines from Saanich look reasonable.

[2:38:07] Voice 9: I guess there's some nuance from Interim Director Mobbs in terms of how higher costs might be funded within the existing budget, but that doesn't look...

[2:38:21] Voice 9: It didn't sound to me like that would be an impossible task.

[2:38:28] Voice 9: And I had something else, but it's left me.

[2:38:31] Voice 9: I'll move on.

[2:38:32] Voice 9: Thank you, Trustee Luckman.

[2:38:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): Thank you, Chair.

[2:38:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): So thank you, Julia, for that little bit of information you provided there.

[2:38:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): That was useful information.

[2:38:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): And just to clarify a little further, clearly the Islands Trust is not the direct, per se,

[2:38:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): although we pay the salaries, we're not the direct employer that determined the job descriptions

[2:38:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): and the classifications.

[2:38:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): Whereas Saanich is more likely in that more holistic situation of doing that.

[2:39:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): And so you can concur or provide an alternative if you wish on my assumption there.

[2:39:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): But what is interesting in this is if a staff person is doing work above and beyond what their classification is,

[2:39:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): is, and there is a process that's entered into that determines that indeed their job should be

[2:39:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): reclassified, and then PSA would come back and say, well, you've got to reclassify that, and

[2:39:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): furthermore, we're going to retroactively pay them for this work. Clearly, we could stop asking that

[2:39:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): person to do that work and then determine an alternate way to accomplish the work that we've

[2:39:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): asked to have done if we want it to be fiscally conservative. We may not be able to alter the

[2:39:52] Trustee Luckham (probable): back pay requirements having asked that person to do that work on the period of time that they

[2:39:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): might have been doing it, which I would absolutely support and is appropriate. But just tell me about

[2:40:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): how that mechanism would work in terms of finding out that a job that we've been asking somebody to

[2:40:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): do isn't within the description, it needs to be reclassified, and we're told it's going to cost

[2:40:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): you this much now does that ability exist for us to say no we'll just stop asking that person to do

[2:40:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): that work um

[2:40:21] Voice 6: it's certainly at our discretion to determine uh the job descriptions of staff

[2:40:26] Voice 6: at the islands trust um if we were to say okay do not continue doing this work um you know then

[2:40:33] Voice 6: we've got displaced work um and what we're seeing often for reclassification uh for positions up for

[2:40:40] Voice 6: reclassification usually tends to be in our admin with our administrative staff and a lot of that

[2:40:46] Voice 6: administrative work is just tied to operations and it's tough to get away from um you know there's

[2:40:52] Voice 6: also some union rules if you are you know sort of uh downward classifying stuff there's a rule that

[2:40:59] Voice 6: you have to follow which um truthfully i don't know the nuance of that off the top of my head

[2:41:03] Voice 6: but i know we'd have to look to the union agreement for that when we've seen reclassifications in the

[2:41:08] Voice 6: the past, it's generally resulted in a few thousand dollar impact to the budget. It's not

[2:41:13] Voice 6: the primary driver of our numbers.

[2:41:16] Voice 14: I noticed, CEO, that you seem to be using the term job

[2:41:22] Voice 14: description and job reclassification interchangeably. Is that what that bullet point,

[2:41:27] Voice 14: is that what it's getting at? Salaries and benefits, benefits, costs arising from

[2:41:32] Voice 14: the reclassification of jobs yeah

[2:41:37] Voice 6: when a job description is significantly altered it needs to

[2:41:41] Voice 6: be re-examined to see if it is worthy of a classification change so the classification

[2:41:48] Voice 6: of a particular role is determined by the duties in the job description and

[2:41:53] Voice 14: then that and the job

[2:41:54] Voice 14: classification is based on what the province gives us the psa correct okay so it's we don't change

[2:42:03] Voice 14: the job classifications but we can we can change a person's like we can't change the content of

[2:42:10] Voice 14: what a job classification is that's the province but we can change which classification we're

[2:42:14] Voice 14: designating a person and that's the salary range for that person and under this point

[2:42:21] Voice 14: any such move to change a job classification uh is uh it's a budget gun it says that's going to

[2:42:28] Voice 14: be provided within existing budget you don't get an increase for that you just have you got to find

[2:42:31] Voice 14: some money else from elsewhere to move into there is that right uh

[2:42:36] Voice 6: that's what that second example

[2:42:38] Voice 6: guideline um is getting at yes and

[2:42:41] Voice 14: you don't consider that to be super material in terms of

[2:42:44] Voice 14: volume of or amount is that right it is

[2:42:48] Voice 14: absolutely not material okay trustee graham thank you chair

[2:42:54] Voice 10: um it seems to me that the guidelines that we've been looking at have been an attempt to

[2:42:58] Voice 10: control the budget, reduce the budget. I've always assumed that staffing salaries and benefits are

[2:43:05] Voice 10: non-discretional. They're basically, other than paying people more, which you can't see this

[2:43:15] Voice 10: financial planning committee suggesting that, even though that might end up being where we end up,

[2:43:22] Voice 10: considering we have a tough time keeping people working at the trust because we don't have the

[2:43:28] Voice 10: the ability to move through the organizations

[2:43:33] Voice 10: and the professions that planners

[2:43:35] Voice 10: and various other staff get to do in larger governments.

[2:43:39] Voice 10: So I just don't quite understand

[2:43:40] Voice 10: why we would be worrying about guidelines

[2:43:42] Voice 10: in a staffing salary and benefits category

[2:43:44] Voice 10: considering it non-discretional.

[2:43:49] Voice 14: Well, actually, from everything we've heard,

[2:43:51] Voice 14: Trustee Graham, it's not, we do have discretion.

[2:43:54] Voice 14: We have discretion about whether or not

[2:43:55] Voice 14: we're going to move a person

[2:43:57] Voice 14: from one job classification to another.

[2:43:59] Voice 14: other. And that has cost implications, not major, but it has some cost implications according to

[2:44:04] Voice 14: what we're hearing from the CAO, Trustee Evans.

[2:44:10] Voice 5: I'm just going to let interim CAO answer what

[2:44:14] Voice 5: you just said, because I think you got that incorrect.

[2:44:17] Voice 14: Oh, boy. Wouldn't be the first time.

[2:44:22] Voice 6: CL? Thanks, Chair and Trustee Evans. Yes, we do not have the ability to determine our own

[2:44:29] Voice 6: classification. We have the ability to determine the tasks that a staff is taking on. And then we

[2:44:36] Voice 6: hand that list of tasks over to the PSA. And they say, based on this list of tasks, this is the

[2:44:41] Voice 6: classification of this staff person. So we decide what that staff person is doing. And that tells

[2:44:48] Voice 6: PSA, they decide the classification based on that.

[2:44:52] Voice 14: Okay. I missed that decision point. The decision

[2:44:56] Voice 14: point is actually with the PSA, but we can have that, we can cause that effect. We can bring

[2:45:02] Voice 14: about a reclassification if we change the description sufficiently. Christy Evans,

[2:45:08] Voice 14: you have, I'm sure, more to say.

[2:45:10] Voice 5: I was going to recommend or request the assistance of everyone

[2:45:16] Voice 5: here to work on a motion in this area, just to help move it along. It sounds like bullet one

[2:45:23] Voice 5: is something that we're currently doing, and bullet two is something that we're not doing,

[2:45:26] Voice 5: but it won't have a material effect um but it will it will provide a bound um so i would like to

[2:45:35] Voice 5: work on um putting these two in as um budget assumptions and guidelines so is is is that okay

[2:45:46] Voice 5: if i if i ask the group to help me draft a motion here fire

[2:45:50] Voice 15: away okay

[2:45:51] Voice 5: so if um if we can pull up a

[2:45:57] Voice 5: motion on the screen i'm going to say um i move that the financial planning committee

[2:46:04] Voice 5: recommend to trust council that the following budget assumption principle guidelines whatever

[2:46:16] Voice 5: whatever we want to call them baps i

[2:46:18] Voice 14: think it's a guideline be

[2:46:21] Voice 5: be adopted and then uh copy in the

[2:46:28] Voice 5: the two from page what is it page 36 number 13 I

[2:46:35] Voice 14: think we only need the second one because the

[2:46:37] Voice 14: first one we're already doing it

[2:46:39] Voice 5: and so I'm just going to ask um is that is that a budget guideline

[2:46:44] Voice 5: that's already in existence or is that just something that we're just doing I'm going to ask

[2:46:51] Voice 5: it um yeah

[2:46:53] Voice 6: historically trust council has um made the assumption that we're going to calculate it

[2:46:59] Voice 6: that way um you know Spanish makes a specific statement in the form of a guideline that it

[2:47:05] Voice 6: will be done this way um potato potato um so we could go either route yeah

[2:47:12] Voice 5: so if we don't have it

[2:47:14] Voice 5: as a current standing guideline then I'd like to actually add it in as a guideline okay

[2:47:20] Voice 15: it is a

[2:47:22] Voice 5: standing assumption that we'll do that oh it is a standing assumption that we do that so it's

[2:47:27] Voice 5: already in the in that right okay that was my question

[2:47:29] Voice 5: is it already in there well

[2:47:31] Voice 14: if we want

[2:47:32] Voice 14: to turn it into a guideline as opposed to an assumption that's we might as well i mean it's

[2:47:37] Voice 14: i don't think it hurts to do it it doesn't make it doesn't seem to make any difference one way

[2:47:40] Voice 14: the other so correct so we can do both or we can do it just the one it's your choice trustee evans

[2:47:50] Voice 5: um well as long as it's existing somewhere then i'm happy not to add it in here i don't i don't

[2:47:55] Voice 5: necessarily want duplication i just want to make sure that it is covered so we'll just do the

[2:47:59] Voice 5: second bullet and then i open it up for help i

[2:48:25] Voice 13: think it does the job just the way it is okay

[2:48:28] Voice 5: then if that's the case then i will move it i move that financial planning committee recommend

[2:48:34] Voice 5: to trust council that the following budget guideline be adopted funding for salary and

[2:48:39] Voice 5: benefit costs arising from job description changes must be provided within existing budgets

[2:48:45] Voice 5: do

[2:48:50] Voice 14: we have a seconder

[2:48:55] Voice 4: yes i'll second that rookie

[2:48:59] Voice 14: bowler second floor is open for discussion on

[2:49:02] Voice 14: further discussion the motion if necessary anybody have any further comments about this one i hope

[2:49:07] Voice 14: not we have other things to deal with i'm going to put it up for a vote all those in favor of

[2:49:14] Voice 14: this motion please raise your hands those uh oh please lower your hands now and anyone opposed

[2:49:24] Voice 14: Opposed, please raise your hands.

[2:49:28] Voice 14: One opposed.

[2:49:31] Voice 14: The motion passes.

[2:49:32] Voice 14: Thank you.

[2:49:34] Voice 14: Let's move on to item 14.

[2:49:41] Voice 3: Sorry,

[2:49:47] Voice 6: folks, I was muted there.

[2:49:48] Voice 6: Item number 14 speaks to trustee remuneration.

[2:49:51] Voice 6: So we haven't had any changes

[2:49:52] Voice 6: to the trustee remuneration policy.

[2:49:54] Voice 6: So we'll be incorporating the calculation

[2:49:57] Voice 6: for trustee remuneration as per that policy as per usual.

[2:50:01] Voice 6: Office facilities, item number 15,

[2:50:04] Voice 6: we do have signed office leases for all three of our staffed office locations and so we will be

[2:50:09] Voice 6: incorporating costs for those facilities every year we do revisit the galliano island trustee

[2:50:16] Voice 6: office so we'll be doing that again this fiscal year to determine if that particular office is

[2:50:20] Voice 6: still adding value item number 16

[2:50:23] Voice 6: ceo

[2:50:25] Voice 14: when we have that discussion it'd be very helpful if staff

[2:50:28] Voice 14: would be able to assist the trustees by providing us with some really concrete information about the

[2:50:35] Voice 14: the actual utility about the actual usage of this because what happens is there's a discussion about

[2:50:41] Voice 14: whether it's useful or not one or both of the trustees from galliano say well we do use it we

[2:50:48] Voice 14: do find it useful then they explain what they do with it and then we just sort of move on but

[2:50:54] Voice 14: let's you know we'll take what the galliano trustees say at face value that it has utility

[2:50:58] Voice 14: to them at that level but when we have that discussion be helpful if staff would be able to

[2:51:02] Voice 14: to tell us overall what value we're getting

[2:51:08] Voice 14: out of this office space.

[2:51:10] Voice 14: It has obviously some use for the trustees

[2:51:12] Voice 14: to use it as a meeting place and all the rest of it,

[2:51:14] Voice 14: but we need enough information to determine

[2:51:16] Voice 14: whether it's worth it for that alone,

[2:51:18] Voice 14: or if that's the only thing that's happening.

[2:51:20] Voice 14: So the more information, the better when we,

[2:51:23] Voice 14: if and when we get to that discussion later on.

[2:51:26] Voice 14: Well, I see-

[2:51:27] Voice 6: We can happily, oh, if I

[2:51:30] Voice 14: may respond to your comment.

[2:51:31] Voice 14: Please go ahead.

[2:51:32] Voice 14: go

[2:51:33] Voice 4: ahead well I can kind of answer it and ask a question one is that we did have a discussion

[2:51:38] Voice 4: and a vote at I think an FPC when maybe you weren't there you need which is very rare but I

[2:51:44] Voice 4: think that was when it was discussed but having said that I find it a bit sort of high and dry

[2:51:52] Voice 4: I think a date on it or something that says each year there is a discussion because I read that

[2:51:58] Voice 4: last paragraph and I thought but we had the discussion so something that gives context to

[2:52:05] Voice 4: why it's there and I also think that given that the discussion comes up every year I wonder if

[2:52:13] Voice 4: they keep a log of usage that could be used to kind of inform the discussion if it does

[2:52:19] Voice 4: come up again or when it does come up again thanks Rosie Peterson

[2:52:26] Voice 9: yes I believe

[2:52:30] Voice 9: I believe a financial planning committee recommended to remove it.

[2:52:33] Voice 9: Trust Council, which Chair Bernardo was not at in March, reversed that decision, retained the office space.

[2:52:43] Voice 9: And I'll just super briefly add that planning staff for Galliano do use the office.

[2:52:49] Voice 9: It's not just the local trustees.

[2:52:50] Voice 9: these um julia might have advice on on on uh getting those staff to address uh either fpc or

[2:52:59] Voice 9: council or both but i'm um i'm aware that staff find it valuable for them well i that's helpful

[2:53:07] Voice 14: but for making decisions anecdotal information isn't that helpful not that i'm disputing what

[2:53:14] Voice 14: you're saying but if we could just have staff provide us with just some concrete statistics

[2:53:18] Voice 14: statistics of usage. You know, we're going to take it for granted that the people, the trustees in

[2:53:23] Voice 14: Galliano like the office and like using it, but frankly, their information is also anecdotal and

[2:53:29] Voice 14: no disputing that it's valuable to them. The question is whether or not on balance,

[2:53:33] Voice 14: the spending the money is valuable to the trust as a whole. And for that, we need more information

[2:53:39] Voice 14: than anecdotal reports. CEO?

[2:53:44] Voice 6: We do provide actual stats. We've done that in the past. We did it last

[2:53:48] Voice 6: year again. I reach out to the local trust committee members of Galliano as well as planning

[2:53:54] Voice 6: and conservancy staff to understand how often they are using it. That information is included

[2:53:59] Voice 6: in the reports that go to FPCN Trust Council. So that information is there determining the value

[2:54:07] Voice 6: to the community. If the office is open two times a week, for example, we leave that up to the local

[2:54:16] Voice 6: trustees to tell us that value but we do already provide that information and we will do it again

[2:54:21] Voice 6: this year the reason this comment remains is something we revisit every year is because that

[2:54:25] Voice 6: office lease is an annual lease so we have the opportunity on an annual basis to renew it or not

[2:54:31] Voice 14: thank you trustee evans thanks

[2:54:34] Voice 5: i think we're getting a little into the weeds here but

[2:54:38] Voice 5: i know that that office space costs three times as much as the one on salt spring

[2:54:43] Voice 5: bring has less people using it and I know that this question has been raised in the past and

[2:54:48] Voice 5: it'll get raised in the future whether or not there are other options available

[2:54:53] Voice 5: so I'm not disputing that the office space is valuable to to those trustees but again I think

[2:55:00] Voice 5: this is a discussion that's going to be held at Trust Council and likely at our recommendation

[2:55:04] Voice 5: but not necessarily the best use of our time right now.

[2:55:09] Voice 14: So I think we can move on from this point

[2:55:12] Voice 14: I'm going to cut off the discussion we're running out of time here but the fact of the matter is

[2:55:16] Voice 14: we are not assuming that the Galliano office space is just moving forward this like remains

[2:55:24] Voice 14: the same as it we do with Salt Spring and Victoria and Gabriola and that means it's open for

[2:55:32] Voice 14: discussion it's going to be a discussion item when the budget proper gets prepared so I don't

[2:55:37] Voice 14: think we have to linger over it and I don't think we have to assume one thing or another

[2:55:41] Voice 14: other one direction or another with this thing.

[2:55:43] Voice 14: So let's just move on to item 16.

[2:55:52] Voice 14: Ciel.

[2:55:53] Voice 6: Okay.

[2:55:55] Voice 6: Item number 16, we're looking at planning services.

[2:55:59] Voice 6: So in particular, this is consideration of OCP

[2:56:02] Voice 6: and LTC budgets that might be coming forward

[2:56:05] Voice 6: in the budget year.

[2:56:06] Voice 6: So the process here is that LTCs do examine their needs

[2:56:10] Voice 6: and desires, their heart switches for the next fiscal year

[2:56:13] Voice 6: and are sending forward business cases

[2:56:15] Voice 6: for any pieces of work that are over $5,000 so we can expect to see business cases associated

[2:56:21] Voice 6: with projects of that magnitude. The allocation of funding resources between different local

[2:56:27] Voice 6: trust areas in the north and the south and salt spring remains in line with policy and at the

[2:56:33] Voice 6: direction of the director of planning services. Item oh I guess I touched on item number 17 there

[2:56:40] Voice 6: looking at planner resource allocation.

[2:56:42] Voice 14: I actually have a question

[2:56:44] Voice 14: for you, CAO.

[2:56:46] Voice 6: Okay, certainly.

[2:56:48] Voice 14: When was that

[2:56:49] Voice 14: $5,000

[2:56:52] Voice 14: number established?

[2:56:55] Voice 14: Because I'm wondering

[2:56:56] Voice 14: if events in time have

[2:56:59] Voice 14: gotten past it

[2:57:01] Voice 14: and whether or not that's actually a realistic

[2:57:03] Voice 14: amount or

[2:57:05] Voice 14: whether staff has looked

[2:57:07] Voice 14: into the advisability of increasing

[2:57:09] Voice 14: increasing that amount or whether it still remains feasible?

[2:57:11] Voice 14: Has staff looked into that?

[2:57:14] Voice 6: That's not been re-examined in many years.

[2:57:17] Voice 6: It's an amount that was set some,

[2:57:19] Voice 6: I want to say around 2017,

[2:57:21] Voice 6: but I wasn't here at that time.

[2:57:23] Voice 6: So I could be slightly off there.

[2:57:26] Voice 6: Certainly increasing that number would probably be welcomed

[2:57:29] Voice 6: by local trust committees and staff

[2:57:31] Voice 6: if we're going to consider smaller amounts

[2:57:34] Voice 6: to be minor projects.

[2:57:36] Voice 6: But no, it has not been reevaluated in a number of years.

[2:57:39] Voice 6: Would

[2:57:39] Voice 14: changing that number require a policy change or is that just a budgetary decision?

[2:57:46] Voice 6: I do believe it's in our budget process policy.

[2:57:50] Voice 6: You know, it's not outside of the realm of what we do here to sometimes step outside of policy as long as doing that is at the direction of trustees and not staff.

[2:57:59] Voice 6: So that's certainly something we could examine.

[2:58:01] Voice 6: It would mean that fewer pieces of work are coming forward for analysis as part of business cases.

[2:58:11] Voice 6: And instead, you would see an increase in the amount that's allocated to local trust committees for minor projects,

[2:58:18] Voice 6: which is not a number that is specifically allocated necessarily to pieces of work.

[2:58:24] Voice 6: It's just sort of used up as the year goes on.

[2:58:27] Voice 14: All right. Thank you.

[2:58:29] Voice 14: uh i see director sermac as a handoff thank

[2:58:33] Voice 12: you mr chair um the amount five thousand dollars was

[2:58:37] Voice 12: recently considered and adopted in the new policy in 2022 quite recently and it is when we amended

[2:58:45] Voice 12: the policies to reflect minor projects major projects and then that's how we also divvied

[2:58:50] Voice 12: up the teams now to regional planning team current planning teams and so forth

[2:58:53] Voice 12: so the project is that that number was quite recently looked at and so far we found it a

[2:59:00] Voice 12: suitable threshold for some information it is but generally what the estimated cost is to hold

[2:59:06] Voice 12: one community information meeting one public hearing advertising costs and possibly

[2:59:12] Voice 12: a success a legal review but that tends to be sometimes that can blow the budget depending on

[2:59:18] Voice 12: them these days that seems to be getting more and more expensive right

[2:59:22] Voice 14: well thank you for

[2:59:23] Voice 14: for that clarification, very helpful.

[2:59:24] Voice 14: Thank you.

[2:59:26] Voice 14: CAO Mobs, you can return to the items here.

[2:59:30] Voice 14: 17, I think is next.

[2:59:34] Voice 6: So I think we've talked on about item number 17,

[2:59:38] Voice 6: planner resource allocation.

[2:59:40] Voice 6: So as I understand it,

[2:59:41] Voice 6: there's no changes to that resource allocation

[2:59:43] Voice 6: and Director Surmai can correct me if I'm off there.

[2:59:48] Voice 6: The item number 18 is talking about

[2:59:51] Voice 6: the strategic plan projects.

[2:59:53] Voice 6: So we're taking the assumption that any projects that are currently underway will continue to see.

[3:00:00] Voice 6: funding next fiscal year so that some of those projects can be completed if necessary. We are

[3:00:05] Voice 6: looking forward to the September Trust Council meeting and where Trust Council will hopefully

[3:00:10] Voice 6: approve its new strategic plan. And that new strategic plan will inform budget requests that

[3:00:16] Voice 6: come forward both in the current budget cycle and in future budget cycles. So there's two example

[3:00:22] Voice 6: guidelines that are provided. One is from the District of Saanich and one from the City of

[3:00:25] Voice 6: Cambridge. District of Saanich takes a guideline that any outstanding resourcing needs for

[3:00:33] Voice 6: strategic plan initiatives will be funded in the budget. And the City of Cambridge is essentially

[3:00:40] Voice 6: doing the same thing with a different wording. So I'll let the committee discuss those if you wish.

[3:00:47] Voice 14: If you could clarify, for example, that you say the two examples do the same thing. The first one

[3:00:54] Voice 14: seems a little bit more intelligible i take it from that that what is really driving that is

[3:01:02] Voice 14: the it's the decision of what the strategic initiatives are back from 2019-23 which has

[3:01:11] Voice 14: already been made was made last term it's basically saying we're just going to keep funding

[3:01:15] Voice 14: is that right uh

[3:01:19] Voice 6: are you sticking to the example guideline in particular yes

[3:01:22] Voice 14: that's right so yeah

[3:01:24] Voice 14: Yeah,

[3:01:25] Voice 6: the example guideline for Saanich, this isn't a current year guideline, this would have

[3:01:30] Voice 6: been pulled from a previous year for them. And so that would have been a strategic plan in play for

[3:01:36] Voice 6: them at the time. And essentially, that guideline is saying we're going to resource the strategic

[3:01:40] Voice 6: plan. And the second one is from the city of Cambridge is essentially saying the same thing.

[3:01:48] Voice 6: It does go back to the principle of, you know, if I put a plan in place, if you don't intend to

[3:01:53] Voice 6: to resource it, so that's, you know, it does tend,

[3:01:58] Voice 6: when I was looking at other jurisdictions

[3:02:00] Voice 14: that

[3:02:00] Voice 6: do tend to see this type of guideline.

[3:02:02] Voice 14: What I'm trying to understand is if the example guideline

[3:02:05] Voice 14: for Saanich was reworded to apply to us,

[3:02:09] Voice 14: would it be speaking retrospectively about,

[3:02:13] Voice 14: we're going to fund the old stuff,

[3:02:14] Voice 14: or is it actually going to be talking about

[3:02:16] Voice 14: the 24-28 strategic plan?

[3:02:22] Voice 6: I think the committee could recommend a council,

[3:02:24] Voice 6: either of those options so you know we're taking the assumption as staff that projects already

[3:02:30] Voice 6: underway will continue to be funded if you'd like to make an explicit guideline statement around

[3:02:36] Voice 6: that absolutely that can be done and then also making a separate guideline that says anything

[3:02:42] Voice 6: in the new strategic plan will also be funded there are a number of items in the draft new

[3:02:48] Voice 6: strategic plan that are projects from the old strategic plan of course you know things that

[3:02:54] Voice 6: that were started that aren't yet finished.

[3:02:55] Voice 6: So there's flexibility in how you want to tackle it.

[3:03:00] Voice 14: Okay, committee, what we have before us here

[3:03:02] Voice 14: is an assumption that we will continue funding

[3:03:04] Voice 14: the old stuff.

[3:03:05] Voice 14: And I guess there's a question here of whether or not

[3:03:07] Voice 14: we actually want to maintain that assumption.

[3:03:08] Voice 14: And secondly, there's a new item to consider

[3:03:12] Voice 14: as to whether we want to have an explicit guideline

[3:03:14] Voice 14: that says, look, whatever we agree to in the 2428

[3:03:19] Voice 14: specific plan, we're going to fund it.

[3:03:21] Voice 14: so i think those are the two plots that get emerged out of this item uh trustee boland

[3:03:29] Voice 4: and it's it's a little bit speaking to that so in the first sentence as part of the current

[3:03:35] Voice 4: strategic plan i think it would be helpful if that was brackets 2018 to 2022 which i think is

[3:03:44] Voice 4: is correct. Yeah. And then I, so we have the current strategic plan or elements of it that

[3:03:56] Voice 4: was, you know, re-approved in 2023, or endorsed. And then we'll have this new strategic plan.

[3:04:04] Voice 4: I would be reluctant to absolutely assume that we will see through to completion

[3:04:13] Voice 4: anything in that

[3:04:15] Voice 4: older plan

[3:04:16] Voice 4: only for the reason that some of them have

[3:04:19] Voice 4: trickled and dragged on I think it would be

[3:04:21] Voice 4: wise to just look at the status

[3:04:23] Voice 4: of them and

[3:04:26] Voice 4: consider whether

[3:04:27] Voice 4: to sort of

[3:04:29] Voice 4: bring them to a halt

[3:04:31] Voice 4: or allow them to continue

[3:04:33] Voice 4: not to assume that they will continue

[3:04:35] Voice 4: that would be the only thing that I

[3:04:37] Voice 4: would suggest and the other stuff

[3:04:39] Voice 4: is fine by me

[3:04:40] Voice 4: Thanks

[3:04:41] Voice 4: Thanks.

[3:04:44] Voice 15: I

[3:04:45] Voice 5: was going to say, when we come to take a look at the strategic plan itself, part of that will say what projects move forward.

[3:04:53] Voice 5: And if some of the ones from the previous one fall off, then they fall off and they don't get resourced.

[3:04:59] Voice 5: So we're going to I would say that we're looking at the current strategic plan.

[3:05:04] Voice 5: And I think it's the guideline from the Saanich one is a good one to move forward.

[3:05:10] Voice 5: So again, I'd like to start a motion with the help of everybody to incorporate this one, just to keep things moving along here.

[3:05:21] Voice 13: Okay.

[3:05:26] Voice 5: So I'll just wait for that to come up on the screen.

[3:05:31] Voice 5: And I'll just start it again with Financial Planning Committee requests that Trust Council consider and then just, you know, take the rest of the wording from that and change the years.

[3:05:48] Voice 5: to match up with our current strategic plan and let's see what that looks like in

[3:06:24] Voice 4: conjunction with

[3:06:25] Voice 4: so preparation of the budget yeah

[3:06:31] Voice 5: just let's take out um the second council will

[3:06:36] Voice 5: and consider take out the word will okay so it currently reads that the financial planning

[3:06:55] Voice 5: committee requests that trust council consider any outstanding resourcing needs for strategic

[3:06:59] Voice 5: initiatives from the 2024-28 strategic plan and i will ask for assistance on the wording on this

[3:07:07] Voice 5: i think that should be 2018 to 2022 no no no we want the current strategic plan not the old one

[3:07:17] Voice 5: so we're asking for we're asking to make sure that any outstanding resourcing needs

[3:07:25] Voice 5: needs for the current strategic plan be resourced not the old one right okay which is different

[3:07:35] Voice 14: which is different and the other one is already covered by the fact that we're assuming it's

[3:07:41] Voice 14: going to continue but then once the strategic plan is revised the old one falls away and this

[3:07:45] Voice 14: covers everything correct

[3:07:46] Voice 5: do

[3:07:48] Voice 14: we have a seconder i

[3:07:50] Voice 5: believe julia mobs has um something to say first

[3:07:52] Voice 14: so let's let's ask

[3:07:53] Voice 5: her yeah

[3:07:54] Voice 14: sorry about that please uh julia go ahead um i think you're muted

[3:08:06] Voice 6: sorry folks um i think if we're talking about the current strategic plan the word outstanding

[3:08:11] Voice 6: isn't necessary thank

[3:08:13] Voice 5: you um probably confusing

[3:08:15] Voice 6: the issue a little bit um

[3:08:18] Voice 6: quick comments about um the previous strategic plan the assumption is that um only items in

[3:08:25] Voice 6: that plan that are already underway will continue to be resourced if something was on the plan was

[3:08:30] Voice 6: never started. The intent is not to pick it up. So

[3:08:34] Voice 5: I guess my question then is, if the current

[3:08:40] Voice 5: strategic plan says that these are the priorities and other work ceases, then that work would stop

[3:08:46] Voice 5: and no longer be resourced.

[3:08:52] Voice 6: So are you asking if there's a project already in play that doesn't

[3:08:56] Voice 6: land on the new strategic plan? Does it stop midway? Is that

[3:09:01] Voice 5: your question? Yes. If there's

[3:09:02] Voice 5: If the strategic plan says these three items are the priority and there isn't enough resourcing to continue on with everything else,

[3:09:13] Voice 5: and Trust Council says priority is A, B, C, all other work goes on the back burner or waits, then it doesn't get resourced.

[3:09:22] Voice 5: And

[3:09:24] Voice 6: Trust Council absolutely could give that direction for staff to drop ongoing work and focus on what's new in the strategic plan.

[3:09:30] Voice 6: And

[3:09:33] Voice 14: that direction, to be clear, I'm assuming would be provided by the new strategic plan.

[3:09:39] Voice 14: I mean, that's where, if Trust Council wished to do that, it's when it's describing the strategic work to be done going forward.

[3:09:46] Voice 14: It's either going to include the stuff that's carried over or it doesn't include it.

[3:09:55] Voice 14: In

[3:09:56] Voice 6: an ideal world, the new strategic plan would encompass everything.

[3:09:59] Voice 6: So if there's something underway that you want to keep advancing and it's going to take priority and take resources, ideally it would land in the strategic plan.

[3:10:07] Voice 14: Well, I think when we have that strategic plan discussion, it's only prudent that we make sure that that's included in the discussion at that juncture.

[3:10:15] Voice 14: Like when we're all talking about the new stuff

[3:10:17] Voice 14: and everybody's getting excited, I think we've got to discuss everything.

[3:10:21] Voice 14: We do have to have that discussion about do we wish to carry over these items?

[3:10:26] Voice 14: Like that has to be a positive decision.

[3:10:28] Voice 14: I mean, we can assume it for present purposes, but once we start having that strategic plan

[3:10:32] Voice 14: discussion, I don't, that assumption drops away.

[3:10:34] Voice 14: We actually have to have a reasoned debate.

[3:10:37] Voice 14: I was going to

[3:10:38] Voice 5: say part of the strategic plan should include what projects are included

[3:10:42] Voice 5: in it and what the benchmarks and success markers are for completion.

[3:10:48] Voice 5: So again,

[3:10:49] Voice 5: this is strategic plan discussion.

[3:10:51] Voice 5: This is different.

[3:10:52] Voice 5: We're off track.

[3:10:53] Voice 14: All right.

[3:10:54] Voice 14: Do we have a second?

[3:10:55] Voice 14: I

[3:10:56] Voice 5: have to move it first.

[3:10:57] Voice 5: I haven't moved it.

[3:10:57] Voice 5: Oh,

[3:10:58] Voice 14: sorry. Well,

[3:11:01] Voice 5: I don't know if there's other comments on wording. So once the comments on

[3:11:06] Voice 5: wording has finished, then

[3:11:08] Voice 5: I'll leave it.

[3:11:09] Voice 14: Okay. I think the wording does the job that

[3:11:12] Voice 14: you're trying to do. I

[3:11:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): have a question of clarity that may determine a different outcome.

[3:11:18] Voice 14: Does it relate to the wording of this thing? Yes.

[3:11:21] Voice 14: Okay.

[3:11:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): The use of the word resourcing needs for strategic initiatives

[3:11:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): through the chair Julia does this it's also because we've just recently had this issue

[3:11:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): grant funding that has come forward for a strategic initiative in a previous term and now

[3:11:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): or a fiscal period and now the funding has come through and the work continues on but it's not

[3:11:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): on the current strategic plan how does that work resourcing being internally funded versus

[3:11:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): is grant funding staff

[3:12:03] Voice 6: time is a form of resourcing in addition to finances right and so

[3:12:09] Voice 6: if there are pieces of work that trust council wants to advance that are not on the strategic

[3:12:15] Voice 6: plan um and but we want to undertake it because now there's a source of funding that's absolutely

[3:12:21] Voice 6: doable um but there needs to be an understanding that it may display some strategic plan items

[3:12:26] Voice 6: because staff time will be directed to the initiatives that aren't on the plan.

[3:12:31] Voice 6: So looking at both of those things together is necessary.

[3:12:36] Voice 6: As I read this resolution, it's really talking about, you know,

[3:12:40] Voice 6: resourcing needs being staffing as well as finances to advance within the strategic plan.

[3:12:49] Voice 6: And if there's a grant that will support some strategic plan initiative,

[3:12:53] Voice 6: that would absolutely be part of that consideration.

[3:12:56] Voice 14: Thank you for that.

[3:12:57] Voice 14: Trustee Boland, I think you had something to say.

[3:13:03] Voice 4: Yeah, I'm not quite sure of the logic here.

[3:13:07] Voice 4: So in the BAP, we've got,

[3:13:12] Voice 4: it is assumed projects underway.

[3:13:14] Voice 14: Hang on, hang on.

[3:13:15] Voice 14: Just a moment here.

[3:13:16] Voice 14: What we're dealing with here is the narrow question.

[3:13:18] Voice 4: Well, I'm trying to get, okay, but I'm-

[3:13:20] Voice 14: Please, please, let me finish.

[3:13:22] Voice 14: Okay.

[3:13:23] Voice 14: What we're dealing with right now

[3:13:25] Voice 14: is Trustee Evans has a resolution

[3:13:27] Voice 14: and has asked the group's assistance on the wording of it.

[3:13:30] Voice 14: If your comment is about something other than the specific wording of this, we can reserve that for when we

[3:13:36] Voice 14: have a discussion of the motion.

[3:13:38] Voice 4: Okay. Do we need to include wording that references the projects that are continuing?

[3:13:44] Voice 4: I don't understand the logic of whether those are included or excluded now.

[3:13:51] Voice 1: Now,

[3:13:51] Voice 4: do we need it explicitly in the air that it will include a consideration of projects that may continue and may need funding from the previous strategic plan?

[3:14:07] Voice 14: Well, the way this is structured right now is an assumption, and I think it's a perennial assumption, that strategic work in the past that was approved will continue to get funded.

[3:14:22] Voice 14: uh but as trustee evans has pointed out once we have a strategic plan developed for 24 28

[3:14:30] Voice 14: that discussion and development strategic plan should comprehensively include uh whatever

[3:14:37] Voice 14: past work that needs to carry over so i i think it gets included to the extent that we agree when

[3:14:43] Voice 14: we have that discussion that it needs to carry over have i got that right i

[3:14:49] Voice 5: would say that the

[3:14:50] Voice 5: in the strategic plan, the work that needs to carry on will be included in the strategic plan.

[3:14:58] Voice 5: Work that we decide will not continue will not be included in the strategic plan.

[3:15:04] Voice 5: And the strategic plan will require resourcing. So it'll be for the work that is included in

[3:15:10] Voice 5: the strategic plan. If it's not included in the strategic plan, then it shouldn't get resourcing.

[3:15:15] Voice 5: Work that is continuing on from the previous strategic plan, if we determine that that is

[3:15:20] Voice 5: a strategic direction that we want to continue on it gets included in the current strategic plan

[3:15:25] Voice 5: so anything that's outside of the strategic plan that does not support the strategic plan

[3:15:31] Voice 5: shouldn't get resourcing except through determination of the council in a separate

[3:15:37] Voice 5: resolution so

[3:15:39] Voice 4: the first section paragraph in this document that we're considering should be removed

[3:15:48] Voice 14: well hang on

[3:15:49] Voice 14: let's but let's like we're going to get lost here we're wandering around

[3:15:53] Voice 14: we have a resolution in front of us you've heard the answer you asked a question trustee bull and

[3:15:59] Voice 14: the answer is no the wording doesn't have to change to account for your concern about previous

[3:16:03] Voice 14: strategic decisions if they're still worthwhile they will be included going forward that's the

[3:16:09] Voice 14: answer to that one so uh that's where we're at with wording are you now prepared to make

[3:16:16] Voice 14: Make the motion, Trustee Evans.

[3:16:18] Voice 5: You bet.

[3:16:20] Voice 5: Oh, Steph, interim CEO has put her hand up.

[3:16:24] Voice 5: I think I'd like to hear her thoughts first.

[3:16:28] Voice 13: Please proceed.

[3:16:30] Voice 6: I'll try to be brief.

[3:16:31] Voice 6: If it might help with clarity, we could change the wording to say it's assumed that ongoing work prioritized by council will land in the new strategic plan and therefore be funded.

[3:16:41] Voice 6: And this guideline aligns with that.

[3:16:43] Voice 6: So I think this guideline is perfectly reasonable.

[3:16:47] Voice 14: Very helpful.

[3:16:47] Voice 14: Thank you. Trustee Evans.

[3:16:51] Voice 5: So do we want to put that wording in there?

[3:16:54] Voice 14: No, she's talking about changing the wording of the assumption.

[3:16:57] Voice 14: OK, gotcha, gotcha. Thank you. Thank you.

[3:16:59] Voice 5: OK, so I move that the Financial Planning Committee requests that Trust Council consider any resourcing needs for strategic initiatives from the 2024 to 28 strategic plan.

[3:17:12] Voice 14: Do we have a seconder? I see Trustee Elliott has raised her hand.

[3:17:21] Voice 14: I don't think we need any further discussion on this. We beat it to death.

[3:17:25] Voice 14: those in favor please raise your hands please lower your hands anyone opposed please raise

[3:17:36] Voice 14: your hands the motion passes unanimously and ceo mobs you should take it by consent that yes that

[3:17:47] Voice 14: assumption should be rephrased just for an abundance of clarity let's move on to the next

[3:17:51] Voice 14: item please all

[3:17:55] Voice 6: right so we're at item number 19 which is talking about elections so as everyone

[3:17:59] Voice 6: knows there's no election next year so there will be no funding provided in next year's budget for

[3:18:03] Voice 6: that. First Nations reconciliation is a principle that Trust Council has embraced in its work and

[3:18:09] Voice 6: added to the budget assumptions and principles document a couple of years ago. There's an adapted

[3:18:15] Voice 6: example guideline from Saanich. So I say it's adapted because I did amend the wording just

[3:18:20] Voice 6: very slightly. Their example guideline is that their council will consider resourcing needs to

[3:18:27] Voice 6: implement their plans. And so I've updated it to acknowledge the fact that our reconciliation

[3:18:31] Voice 6: action plan needs updating and then can be implemented so that's a piece of work that

[3:18:38] Voice 6: is in the draft strategic plan as i recall and there's already some work at the staff level

[3:18:44] Voice 6: on that piece of on that plan so it's here for consideration of the committee

[3:18:50] Voice 14: before i open up the floor to some discussion about this i'm hoping we can have a very brief

[3:18:55] Voice 14: discussion about this because speaking personally the need for this strikes me as self-evident

[3:19:01] Voice 14: and it's good to lock that in as a guy as a guideline for budget planning trustee Evans

[3:19:10] Voice 5: again in the interest of time I like the wording that the adapted wording that's been put in there

[3:19:14] Voice 5: so can we turn that into a motion and if people are happy with it then I will move it go ahead

[3:19:32] Voice 5: I move that the financial planning committee request council to consider resourcing needs

[3:19:40] Voice 5: like just use the wording that's in there if you just want to copy it or I can read it out if you

[3:19:44] Voice 5: like? What's your preference?

[3:19:56] Voice 6: Is that a question for the

[3:19:57] Voice 6: committee?

[3:19:59] Voice 3: Well, that's

[3:19:59] Voice 5: a question for the whoever's

[3:20:03] Voice 5: whoever's doing the motion. Would you like me to read it

[3:20:08] Voice 5: out? Or would you like to just copy it from the from the page?

[3:20:13] Voice 1: With chair's permission, I'm fine if you just read it to me

[3:20:17] Voice 1: and then I'll just capture it as you speak.

[3:20:19] Voice 5: That's good. So that financial planning committee request Trust

[3:20:25] Voice 5: council to consider resourcing needs to update and implement the reconciliation action plan

[3:20:39] Voice 5: good

[3:20:45] Voice 13: i

[3:20:57] Voice 14: don't think wording is an issue here do we have a seconder for the motion uh trustee

[3:21:06] Voice 14: luckham you had your hand up is that a question or do you have are you willing to are you prepared

[3:21:10] Voice 14: to second this you're seconding it thank you uh unless somebody has some really astute point to

[3:21:20] Voice 14: make in terms of discussion on this i i don't see a huge amount of need for discussion on this

[3:21:27] Voice 14: resolution but of course the floor is open to that if people think it's strictly necessary any

[3:21:31] Voice 14: comments any discussion on this all right i'm putting it to a vote uh since nobody has raised

[3:21:40] Voice 14: their hands has any comments uh those in favor of the resolution please raise your hands please now

[3:21:47] Voice 14: lower your hands anyone opposed to this resolution please uh raise your hand now revolution passes

[3:21:56] Voice 14: unanimously. Thank you. Next item, CO Mums.

[3:22:03] Voice 6: Okay, so we are at item number 21,

[3:22:06] Voice 6: which is talking about community communications and engagement. This is another principle that

[3:22:10] Voice 6: Trust Council added to this document a few years ago. Once again, the Adapted Example Guideline

[3:22:16] Voice 6: from Saanich is simply saying that Council will consider resourcing needs to implement this

[3:22:21] Voice 6: particular strategy so I would look to Director Frater to understand if this I think this plan

[3:22:30] Voice 6: might need a little bit of update before it can actually be implemented so we might need to change

[3:22:33] Voice 6: a bit of the wording to more closely align with what the wording we had for First Nations

[3:22:37] Voice 6: Reconciliation and I would seek Director Frater's guidance on that one.

[3:22:43] Voice 7: Through the chair I'll

[3:22:45] Voice 7: respond to say the refinement of wording would be that you have an engagement strategy the trust

[3:22:50] Voice 7: does not as of yet have an engagement strategy although that might be something you wish to

[3:22:54] Voice 7: consider through your next strategic plan so it would be resourcing needs to implement the

[3:22:58] Voice 7: communication strategy well

[3:23:00] Voice 14: hang on i mean this would be a guideline to implement a strategy we

[3:23:06] Voice 14: don't have you

[3:23:07] Voice 7: do have a communication strategy

[3:23:09] Voice 6: you do not have an engagement strategy so that's

[3:23:13] Voice 6: my mistake in typing chair it should stop at communication and

[3:23:19] Voice 14: what is um i'm just reading

[3:23:27] Voice 14: the first introductory part of it and i can anticipate there might be some circumstances

[3:23:31] Voice 14: where there could be some business cases that where public engagement is kind of like a non-issue

[3:23:38] Voice 14: it's just not relevant to the point um do we need is there some distinguishing that we have to do

[3:23:45] Voice 14: some sort of discretion between what that's all about and I guess that leads to the question of

[3:23:51] Voice 14: what are we talking about in terms of a communication strategy if it relates to

[3:23:55] Voice 14: the reconciliation action plan the way I would read the resolution we just passed it would

[3:24:00] Voice 14: encompass the resourcing of all the needs that relate to action the action plan including

[3:24:07] Voice 14: communication engagement so I think on the First Nation side that's covered already by that last

[3:24:11] Voice 14: resolution or that last guideline so what is the additional communication that we're talking about

[3:24:16] Voice 14: here and i see trustee evans has her hand up

[3:24:21] Voice 5: so at the last trust council meeting we had a look at

[3:24:25] Voice 5: the um the communication strategy and we read it um so it's a completely different document and

[3:24:32] Voice 5: it's a completely diff this is community engagement and and other forms of of communications this is

[3:24:40] Voice 5: is not directly it's not only related to first nations so the one that we just passed was related

[3:24:46] Voice 5: to first nations the one that we're looking at here is communication strategy globally

[3:24:52] Voice 5: two completely different things i

[3:24:55] Voice 14: get that but that's the point i just made so the point is

[3:24:59] Voice 14: what does this other communication strategy outside of the first nation first nation

[3:25:03] Voice 14: engagement? What are

[3:25:06] Voice 14: we talking about?

[3:25:07] Voice 5: Everything else.

[3:25:14] Voice 7: Through the chair, would you like me to

[3:25:16] Voice 7: respond there? Or I see a number of other hands up.

[3:25:19] Voice 14: Could you please, Director Freider? Yeah,

[3:25:22] Voice 7: so this is your corporate communications on behalf of Violence Trust. So this is the entirety of your

[3:25:27] Voice 7: communication support, which includes things like development of your annual report, maintenance of

[3:25:31] Voice 7: of the website, acquisition of graphics,

[3:25:34] Voice 7: just the entire program that we have

[3:25:37] Voice 7: to support Downs Trust with communications.

[3:25:40] Voice 7: The strategy was recently provided to council.

[3:25:42] Voice 7: And so we would be bringing forward activities

[3:25:44] Voice 7: and budgets associated with implementing the strategy.

[3:25:47] Voice 7: That's just been endorsed.

[3:25:50] Voice 14: Okay, thank you.

[3:25:51] Voice 14: Dr. Boland.

[3:25:55] Voice 4: Yeah, but having said that,

[3:25:57] Voice 4: the text here actually references all business cases

[3:26:01] Voice 4: will include consideration. So my understanding of this was that all the business cases submitted

[3:26:08] Voice 4: to the budget would have within it a consideration of community engagement, not the implementation

[3:26:16] Voice 4: of the corporate communications and engagement strategy, but that each business case would adopt

[3:26:24] Voice 4: guidelines or elements of that corporate strategy within its own business case and so i'm now a

[3:26:33] Voice 4: little confused i'm not sure we need this um adapted example because we're not talking about

[3:26:39] Voice 4: that kind of global strategy we're talking about each business case having an element of its own

[3:26:46] Voice 4: Thanks.

[3:26:49] Voice 14: Trustee Evans?

[3:26:52] Voice 5: I disagree slightly with what Trustee Boland just said.

[3:26:59] Voice 5: I'm not going to get into that so much.

[3:27:01] Voice 5: I would like to move this forward.

[3:27:04] Voice 5: And I would like to put the motion on the floor

[3:27:11] Voice 5: that Financial Planning Committee requests Trust Council

[3:27:18] Voice 5: to consider the resourcing needs

[3:27:21] Voice 5: to implement the communication strategy and I'll speak to that if that gets

[3:27:29] Voice 5: seconded I see trustee

[3:27:35] Voice 9: Peterson you have your hand up are you second I shouldn't

[3:27:37] Voice 9: that be I'm happy to second it but it's shouldn't it be refer to the budget

[3:27:43] Voice 9: guidelines in some way as the previous ones did

[3:27:46] Voice 5: no like the communication

[3:27:51] Voice 5: strategy is not budget guidelines okay

[3:27:57] Voice 9: so it's not intent you're not intending

[3:27:58] Voice 9: this to be part of budget guidelines just as a general yes

[3:28:02] Voice 5: oh i see yes so you're

[3:28:08] Voice 14: talking about

[3:28:09] Voice 14: using language says adopt as a budget guideline yeah that's

[3:28:16] Voice 9: that's what i i thought yeah so we

[3:28:19] Voice 9: didn't

[3:28:20] Voice 5: do that for the previous ones so um okay i would i would perhaps group but when we come to

[3:28:31] Voice 5: to put these forward that they all be grouped under these are budget guidelines?

[3:28:37] Voice 14: Okay, just a moment here, Trustee Evans. The CLMOBS, I mean, what we've been doing here is

[3:28:43] Voice 14: we've been following this grid that you provided us and discussing potential guidelines and other

[3:28:50] Voice 14: aspects of the precursors to the budget. It's been pretty clear that what we've been talking

[3:28:58] Voice 14: about, because you've introduced each of these items as guidelines, that that's what we're about

[3:29:01] Voice 14: out here um i'm not too fussed about the specific wording of the resolutions so long as staff

[3:29:09] Voice 14: understands and accepts that the this is a direction to staff to develop these as guidelines

[3:29:14] Voice 14: for the consideration of trust council are we okay on that front that

[3:29:19] Voice 6: is very clear yes no

[3:29:21] Voice 14: so we don't have to get too fussy with the wording here but my apologies i second the motion

[3:29:27] Voice 14: okay thank you do we have any further discussion of the motion

[3:29:36] Voice 13: my

[3:29:36] Voice 6: only consideration chair um you know if we want resolutions to stand alone adding the

[3:29:44] Voice 6: the budget year you're talking about it is helpful um because of course we do reference these through

[3:29:49] Voice 6: time um if

[3:29:51] Voice 6: the exact language of recommend to trust council as a budget guideline isn't there

[3:29:55] Voice 6: i'm not fussed about it it's clear uh referencing the budget year is always helpful

[3:30:01] Voice 14: Okay, what do you recommend then with respect to this?

[3:30:05] Voice 6: Consider the resourcing needs to implement the communication strategy in the 2025-26 draft budget.

[3:30:23] Voice 14: Trustees Evans and Peterson, does that reflect your intention?

[3:30:33] Voice 14: Yep.

[3:30:36] Voice 14: Trustee Evans?

[3:30:38] Voice 14: Yes.

[3:30:39] Voice 14: I don't think we have to fuss any further on that.

[3:30:42] Voice 14: I'm putting it up for a vote.

[3:30:43] Voice 14: Those in favor, please raise your hands.

[3:30:50] Voice 14: Please lower.

[3:30:54] Voice 14: And those opposed, please raise your hands.

[3:30:58] Voice 14: none the resolution passes unanimously thank you next item please I see do

[3:31:06] Voice 14: you have a comment

[3:31:07] Voice 14: I

[3:31:08] Voice 7: just simply wish to note in response to a statement that was made that

[3:31:11] Voice 7: LTC communications associated with LTC project budgets are indeed associated with those project

[3:31:17] Voice 7: budgets because bona and mispallity pays into trust area services we only cover trust-wide

[3:31:23] Voice 7: activities as they relate to communications so just wanted to make that clear thank you

[3:31:31] Voice 15: Interim CAO Mops, please.

[3:31:34] Voice 6: Item number 22 speaks to department budget submissions. So each year

[3:31:38] Voice 6: as part of the budget cycle, the directors prepare the funding needs for their areas of operations

[3:31:44] Voice 6: and regular programming. And these do form a significant part of the budget each year,

[3:31:48] Voice 6: as everybody is aware. The District of Saanich does apply or has applied budget guidelines to

[3:31:55] Voice 6: this particular topic area in history. And so, FTC and Trust Council may wish to consider doing

[3:32:00] Voice 6: the same. The examples from the District of Saanich give guidance that preliminary department

[3:32:06] Voice 6: net budget totals will be limited to a certain percent increase over the previous year. There

[3:32:12] Voice 6: is an acknowledgement to exclude existing personnel costs, phase in funding for positions

[3:32:18] Voice 6: that were approved by Council in the prior year, core capital increases which is a little bit less

[3:32:23] Voice 6: relevant for in our context as well as non-discretionary increases. So really what

[3:32:28] Voice 6: that's doing is applying a cap to department budgets for discretionary items. There is a

[3:32:37] Voice 6: second budget guideline which is talking about additional operating budgets that are going to

[3:32:43] Voice 6: be funded by taxes for new personnel will only be considered where there's a critical capacity

[3:32:49] Voice 6: issues. So I'll hand that back to the committee for discussion.

[3:32:54] Voice 14: As you can see by reading that

[3:32:56] Voice 14: folks this is a guidelines that are very much focused on fiscal discipline and restraining

[3:33:03] Voice 14: restraining uh tax increases um they look pretty carefully worded um i'm going to throw that out

[3:33:09] Voice 14: for discussion uh as to the committee as to whether or not we think there's any merit in

[3:33:13] Voice 14: adopting something similar for ourselves so trustees comments i do

[3:33:26] Voice 2: like the second one um

[3:33:28] Voice 2: Um, the demonstration of a critical capacity issue, um, and really having to make the argument

[3:33:37] Voice 2: for that, where it's going to result in long-term savings outlined in a business case.

[3:33:42] Voice 2: I really like the wording of this second one.

[3:33:46] Voice 2: Um, is the first one, are they like co-related?

[3:33:50] Voice 2: They sort of need to be considered together?

[3:33:52] Voice 2: Julia?

[3:33:55] Voice 14: Do you want to?

[3:33:56] Voice 2: Um,

[3:33:56] Voice 6: they don't need to be.

[3:33:59] Voice 6: they are, I view them as being distinct.

[3:34:07] Voice 15: I

[3:34:08] Voice 4: like both of these, but I am

[3:34:12] Voice 4: wondering what people might suggest as the

[3:34:15] Voice 4: percentage increase. I'm not sure

[3:34:20] Voice 4: how we would arrive at that, but I like both of them, particularly

[3:34:24] Voice 4: the second one, and I would move that.

[3:34:28] Voice 14: Well, with respect to that X percentage, when it says limited to

[3:34:32] Voice 14: to an X percentage increase,

[3:34:34] Voice 14: I would think it would be more prudent to have wording

[3:34:37] Voice 14: that says limited to no more than X.

[3:34:40] Voice 14: I mean, conceivably you might have,

[3:34:42] Voice 14: things might work out that,

[3:34:44] Voice 14: you know, you don't want to create a positive obligation

[3:34:46] Voice 14: on staff to have to spend up to X

[3:34:49] Voice 14: if they don't think it's necessary.

[3:34:51] Voice 14: Just a petty drafting comment there.

[3:34:55] Voice 15: Further comments, trustees?

[3:34:59] Voice 15: Trustee Evans?

[3:34:59] Voice 15: I

[3:35:01] Voice 5: have a question for CAO Mops. With regards to the first one, do you have any insight as to what an average increase would be for departments, departmental budgets? I find that very difficult to consider at the moment.

[3:35:29] Voice 6: You're not wrong. It is a very hard thing to consider. At this point, departmental budgets

[3:35:35] Voice 6: have been deployed to the directors, but we don't yet have drafts. And those tend to come forward

[3:35:41] Voice 6: early next month, so within the next week or two. So it is difficult to know at this point

[3:35:47] Voice 6: what draft increases we might see. If this is a space which is a bit difficult to dive into at

[3:35:55] Voice 6: at this juncture, certainly Trust Council could set

[3:35:58] Voice 6: a guideline at its meeting in December

[3:36:00] Voice 6: once we've got the draft budget.

[3:36:04] Voice 6: You know, there's also consideration again

[3:36:06] Voice 6: for limiting discretionary spending

[3:36:09] Voice 6: as opposed to non-discretionary, which is related.

[3:36:16] Voice 14: Well, it's our job here as FPC to provide

[3:36:19] Voice 14: some recommendations one way or the other, I think,

[3:36:21] Voice 14: on something like this to Trust Council.

[3:36:23] Voice 14: I wouldn't want to just leave it wide open

[3:36:24] Voice 14: because we'll end up with the same result we always do,

[3:36:26] Voice 14: which is nothing. Julia, when you've looked into examples of this type of stuff, we've got

[3:36:34] Voice 14: percentage, they put a hard number in there. Do you find any examples where there are any

[3:36:39] Voice 14: jurisdictions where they, instead of putting a hard percentage number, they just say limited to

[3:36:43] Voice 14: the previous fiscal year's rate of inflation?

[3:36:50] Voice 6: I don't recall seeing anything in particular

[3:36:55] Voice 6: around that. I'd have to look into it again. I looked at a lot of different things.

[3:37:00] Voice 6: I don't recall that in particular. It wouldn't surprise me if there's some jurisdictions who are using inflation as a reference point.

[3:37:11] Voice 6: But I don't recall offhand. Sorry.

[3:37:14] Voice 14: OK, Tracey Evans.

[3:37:17] Voice 5: I think at this juncture is going to be too difficult for us to to reach any conclusion on the first bullet point.

[3:37:25] Voice 5: But I do like the second one. So if it's OK with people, I'd like to move that one.

[3:37:29] Voice 13: It's up to you.

[3:37:31] Voice 5: Okay. So I move that the Financial Planning Committee recommend to trust.

[3:37:41] Voice 14: Careful now. You want to make sure you get that recommended language in.

[3:37:46] Voice 5: That's what I was trying. So I'll just wait for it to come up on screen because now I've lost my

[3:37:51] Voice 5: train of thought.

[3:37:52] Voice 13: Oops. Sorry.

[3:38:01] Voice 5: Yeah. So that Financial Planning Committee recommend to trust

[3:38:04] Voice 5: Council that resource requests for additional operating budgets. Actually, do you want to just

[3:38:21] Voice 5: copy the text because it's quite long?

[3:38:23] Voice 14: Yeah, I think the cut and paste is going to be more

[3:38:25] Voice 14: efficient, Robert.

[3:38:27] Voice 5: Yeah, thank you. Once

[3:38:51] Voice 5: that's done, then I'll read it out. Okay, so I move that

[3:38:55] Voice 5: Financial Planning Committee recommend to Trust Council that resource requests for additional

[3:38:59] Voice 5: operating budgets, including one-time projects and new tax-funded personnel, will only be

[3:39:05] Voice 5: considered where critical capacity issues can be clearly demonstrated or where upfront investment

[3:39:10] Voice 5: will result in longer-term savings, as outlined in a business case.

[3:39:16] Voice 14: That language is very clear.

[3:39:18] Voice 5: I second that.

[3:39:19] Voice 14: All right. Any discussion on the motion? Trustee Bowen, you have your hand up.

[3:39:28] Voice 4: um i just sorry i second that okay yeah all

[3:39:33] Voice 14: right no further discussion those let's uh i'm going to

[3:39:37] Voice 14: throw this open to our vote

[3:39:38] Voice 3: those

[3:39:39] Voice 14: in favor please raise your hands please lower your hands and those

[3:39:50] Voice 14: who are opposed to this motion please raise your hands now if any none pass unanimously we return

[3:39:58] Voice 14: to the agenda we have some ambivalence about whether we should do anything about that first

[3:40:04] Voice 14: bullet item or not uh trustees do we have any further comments about that uh trustee bowman

[3:40:09] Voice 4: um i don't think we should because we um our our entire structure is predicated really on

[3:40:19] Voice 4: staff and i think that first item probably or may come from an environment in which costs are not

[3:40:26] Voice 4: just resources so I think the second item really covers the content that we

[3:40:34] Voice 4: need to focus on so I think the second one is fine we don't need the first one

[3:40:39] Voice 4: thanks

[3:40:40] Voice 14: thank you let's move on to item 23 okay

[3:40:47] Voice 6: item 23 is just a place for us

[3:40:49] Voice 6: to acknowledge that we may have significant unusual circumstances that

[3:40:52] Voice 6: we may need to account for and move through the budget cycle so nothing

[3:40:56] Voice 6: nothing exciting there. We move on to discussion of surplus item number 24. So we do take the

[3:41:03] Voice 6: assumption that as per usual practice at Islands Trust that we will be using general surplus funds

[3:41:08] Voice 6: to reduce the tax burden. And so staff will be looking into the first draft of the budget to

[3:41:14] Voice 6: see what's available for us to do that. And that is in line with policy, of course. Item number 25

[3:41:20] Voice 6: speaks to the LTC project specific reserve fund and where there's funding still available in that

[3:41:24] Voice 6: reserve fund staff will continue to draw on it to fund ltc project specific work and item number 26

[3:41:31] Voice 6: is around special tax requisitions um the one that we've seen most commonly in recent history

[3:41:36] Voice 6: of course is for the salt spring island watershed protection alliance um we do not yet know at this

[3:41:41] Voice 6: at this point if there will be a proposed special levy for that piece of work and we do not know at

[3:41:47] Voice 6: this point if there will be other proposed special levies from other local trust areas

[3:41:51] Voice 6: that's

[3:41:52] Voice 14: it for this

[3:41:52] Voice 6: document so I will stop there thank

[3:41:56] Voice 14: you for that and thank you committee

[3:41:59] Voice 14: members for a very productive and constructive discussion we've actually making some progress

[3:42:03] Voice 14: on beefing up the the budgetary process interim CEO mobs I'm going to ask you to I can finish

[3:42:12] Voice 14: talking about that but you're not off the hook yet there's just more to plow through

[3:42:16] Voice 14: on to the next agenda item please which is the timeline

[3:42:20] Voice 6: so the

[3:42:23] Voice 6: budget timelines is actually

[3:42:24] Voice 6: already been approved by financial planning committee it's just returning here because it

[3:42:28] Voice 6: is traveling with the assumptions and guidelines um nothing needs to be done with this item got it

[3:42:34] Voice 14: thank you so uh we have the budget public engagement process we have a request for

[3:42:44] Voice 14: decision here um julia if you could enter into 7.4 please uh

[3:42:51] Voice 6: so this is actually director freighter's

[3:42:53] Voice 6: item

[3:42:53] Voice 13: director freighter thank

[3:43:00] Voice 7: you chair so this is being brought to you as dictated by policy it

[3:43:06] Voice 7: is brought to you annually for a decision around initiating a public engagement program around the

[3:43:11] Voice 7: draft budget the way it's been proposed to you in the attached project charter is consistent with

[3:43:17] Voice 7: how it's been delivered in prior years although it has not this committee has chosen over the

[3:43:21] Voice 7: the last two years to not deliver this program. Staff are recommending that, you know, the status

[3:43:27] Voice 7: quo as per usual delivery. I have noted at the end of the request for decision in the alternative

[3:43:33] Voice 7: section that should this committee decide that really public engagement on the budget is not

[3:43:38] Voice 7: something the trust should be undertaking, perhaps they could recommend to council that

[3:43:41] Voice 7: the policy be amended. We are available to assist with the process. I would note for the committee

[3:43:49] Voice 7: that there is a lead time for advertising

[3:43:52] Voice 7: because the trust has a lot of monthly newspapers

[3:43:55] Voice 7: and one quarterly one.

[3:43:56] Voice 7: We do need a sufficient amount of lead time

[3:43:58] Voice 7: in order to properly promote the engagement

[3:44:01] Voice 7: and support strong awareness in the public

[3:44:06] Voice 7: of the opportunity to engage.

[3:44:08] Voice 7: I'll leave it there and I'm happy to take questions.

[3:44:12] Voice 14: I think Director Frater's comments

[3:44:16] Voice 14: focus in on the fundamental issue here

[3:44:18] Voice 14: about whether or not we want to do this at all.

[3:44:20] Voice 14: if you guys will recall over the past couple of years that we've been working at this

[3:44:26] Voice 14: we've come across this issue twice now when we've been dealing with this issue and both times we've

[3:44:32] Voice 14: rejected the idea that there's any utility in having this budget engagement process and public

[3:44:38] Voice 14: communication process and the principal reason for that has been that you know if i'm just reporting

[3:44:44] Voice 14: recalling what our discussions have been there's basically no evidence budgets have ever been

[3:44:48] Voice 14: and materially changed as a result of the public consultation.

[3:44:51] Voice 14: It's a gesture, but it's not that meaningful to the process.

[3:44:55] Voice 14: At least that seems to be the history.

[3:44:57] Voice 14: So we do have before us the question about

[3:45:00] Voice 14: whether we want this to continue.

[3:45:02] Voice 14: And I think Director Freyder's comment is well taken,

[3:45:05] Voice 14: which is if we don't think it's that useful,

[3:45:07] Voice 14: perhaps we should be considering a change to the policy.

[3:45:09] Voice 14: So with that, I'm going to throw that open to the floor.

[3:45:12] Voice 14: Trustee Bowman.

[3:45:15] Voice 4: I'll try and be quick.

[3:45:16] Voice 4: I think we should change the policy.

[3:45:17] Voice 4: I had two ideas about this immediately. One was to do a very short, compact survey immediately without the constraint of waiting for the budget to be approved in December, just to go with a stripped out version of the questionnaires that exist.

[3:45:41] Voice 4: this my second idea was to go with the webinar which was quite successful last year and to run

[3:45:48] Voice 4: inline polls during that webinar so those are two ideas immediately the first one running a stripped

[3:45:56] Voice 4: out compact survey quickly is probably not possible because you'd have to get it to trust

[3:46:02] Voice 4: council and then there'd be a lead time on advertising plus plus plus so um probably the

[3:46:08] Voice 4: second one which is to focus on the webinar but i think for next year if we were to change the

[3:46:13] Voice 4: policy i would suggest that you know discussion of um public engagement should begin on day one

[3:46:22] Voice 4: of the new budget cycle because otherwise it's completely out of sync and it could be part of a

[3:46:30] Voice 4: bigger sort of public engagement on the work of the trust and the new strategic um projects

[3:46:40] Voice 14: Yes,

[3:46:42] Voice 10: thank you. I really question why we spend the money and take up valuable staff time asking for information when historically we've never used it.

[3:46:58] Voice 10: um the this second paragraph in this piece here says the extent to which trust council has made

[3:47:12] Voice 10: amendments to the proposed budget and i would question uh that statement i would i would ask i

[3:47:18] Voice 10: i would ask have we ever made a change to our budget based on feedback from uh the public and

[3:47:24] Voice 10: And in my limited experience of being on a trustee over 10 years now, we've never taken it's it's it just doesn't seem to be a genuine task.

[3:47:40] Voice 10: Thank you.

[3:47:42] Voice 14: I think

[3:47:45] Voice 5: I'm looking at this from a slightly different perspective, but in agreeance with everyone still on principle.

[3:47:50] Voice 5: I think this is this could be a great tool to get information out. But asking people, should we spend less? The answer will 90 percent, 100 percent always be yes. You ask that question, you're going to get an affirmative. So don't ask the question. We already know the answer. That's that's not helpful.

[3:48:10] Voice 5: what things that I'm going to propose to be like on page 53 the survey itself is 10 pages long

[3:48:18] Voice 5: that's quite long so for example you've got one page of text on page 53 followed by a diagram

[3:48:25] Voice 5: which fully encompasses all of the information that has been written out in text so rather than

[3:48:31] Voice 5: writing it out in text just put the diagram in people like pictures it conveys all of the

[3:48:37] Voice 5: information that we're trying to get out there so that's that's that that's a great way of doing it

[3:48:44] Voice 5: um page 55 same thing it's all written out in text followed by a table just have the table if

[3:48:52] Voice 5: you want to have the explanation put an additional column in with a very abbreviated explanation

[3:48:58] Voice 5: that'll help really shorten it down but it's getting valuable information out um and and

[3:49:04] Voice 5: And this sort of applies throughout the document.

[3:49:06] Voice 5: I would be very much in favor of getting this information out there.

[3:49:10] Voice 5: This is useful information for our people on the islands to receive.

[3:49:17] Voice 5: But I'm not necessarily in favor of asking the question, should we spend less?

[3:49:22] Voice 5: What I would do is I would ask, where are we working well?

[3:49:28] Voice 5: like ask for ask for positives to come back because that's information that that will be

[3:49:35] Voice 5: useful for us um we might not get as many responses but the response that we do get

[3:49:41] Voice 5: should should help guide us what we're doing well so that we can repeat the items that we're doing

[3:49:46] Voice 5: well there's a sort of my comments thank

[3:49:49] Voice 14: you trustee elliot um

[3:49:53] Voice 2: i don't think there's any

[3:49:55] Voice 2: local municipal government that does not do a survey and i think it's been an anomaly that

[3:50:00] Voice 2: we haven't done it to ask for public comment and feedback on our budget for the last two years i

[3:50:06] Voice 2: think this was a mistake um so secondly i think we should really consider um doing what is normal for

[3:50:15] Voice 2: local governments um the second point on where does it come in the budget cycle and how useful

[3:50:22] Voice 2: is the information it it was interesting to me i did have a conversation with director freighter

[3:50:29] Voice 2: And perhaps this information needs to be fleshed out for this committee a bit more.

[3:50:35] Voice 2: But when you track the answers over time, you do get a good sense of where residents are happy with the programs, not happy with the level of service or programs or want to see changes.

[3:50:49] Voice 2: It's not just about the budget reduce or not.

[3:50:53] Voice 2: It's tracking what are we doing well over time.

[3:50:58] Voice 2: And you can only get that data if you do it consistently every year and keep improving your public engagement.

[3:51:04] Voice 2: So those are metrics that I think are valuable.

[3:51:08] Voice 2: Even if they don't feed into the current budget cycle immediately, it's trending over time.

[3:51:15] Voice 2: And the other third thing that I wanted to ask, and maybe we need to get some reporting on this, is what has the trend told us over time?

[3:51:24] Voice 2: We get a lot of criticism from trustees and maybe some loud voices saying, we don't see what we're getting for the taxes that we're paying in terms of services.

[3:51:37] Voice 2: But what I believe you were showing me, Director Frater, is that the vast majority of respondents to these surveys are saying, we're happy with the services, we want you to maintain it.

[3:51:49] Voice 2: And so there might be a bit of a, I think we need to do some digging and I'd like to actually hear what some of the responses were from these last couple of years of reporting before we decided to discontinue.

[3:52:03] Voice 2: I'm in favor of re-engaging the public in the budget feedback engagement cycle.

[3:52:13] Voice 2: I think it's really important that we ask, how are we doing?

[3:52:17] Voice 2: What are we doing well?

[3:52:18] Voice 2: What do you want us to focus on?

[3:52:20] Voice 2: And if we're not doing that, we're not doing our job.

[3:52:23] Voice 2: Thank you.

[3:52:24] Voice 14: I point out that both Trustee Evans and Trustee Elliott, your comments are interesting in

[3:52:30] Voice 14: In a sense, the issue before us is about budget consultation, but both of you actually raised

[3:52:35] Voice 14: issues that are more akin to consulting the public about the strategic direction that

[3:52:41] Voice 14: the organization should be going.

[3:52:43] Voice 14: So I think there's a difference here that we need to be mindful of, that budget consultation

[3:52:47] Voice 14: is not about strategic consultation.

[3:52:49] Voice 14: It's about what's actually in the budget.

[3:52:52] Voice 14: And the question is whether there's any utility about asking the public for comments on line

[3:52:59] Voice 14: line items and because that ends up being a backdoor way

[3:53:03] Voice 14: to get into strategic discussion.

[3:53:07] Voice 14: And there's also a difference here also

[3:53:09] Voice 14: between communication and engagement.

[3:53:11] Voice 14: We heard before from Trustee Peterson

[3:53:13] Voice 14: that we need to improve our communication with taxpayers

[3:53:15] Voice 14: and Trustee Evans had commented about the utility

[3:53:18] Voice 14: of those diagrams.

[3:53:21] Voice 14: Perhaps we should be considering the communication aspects

[3:53:24] Voice 14: and the engagement aspects that they are different.

[3:53:27] Voice 14: And on the communication front,

[3:53:29] Voice 14: front perhaps and I'd ask Director Freyder to comment on this when we get to her after we

[3:53:36] Voice 14: talked after we hear from Trustee Peterson about the possibility of developing an insert to go with

[3:53:41] Voice 14: our property tax notices that explains say the average share of tax assessments in the trust

[3:53:49] Voice 14: area that goes into trust budgets and cash value of the average tax increase just create some very

[3:53:56] Voice 14: very general information for the trust area.

[3:53:58] Voice 14: And then in that insert included link to the website

[3:54:01] Voice 14: that will give to more specific information

[3:54:03] Voice 14: by local trust area.

[3:54:05] Voice 14: Maybe that could be an easy fix to the communication side.

[3:54:10] Voice 14: Trustee Peterson.

[3:54:14] Voice 9: Thank you, Chair.

[3:54:15] Voice 9: I agree in general terms with a lot of what I've heard.

[3:54:19] Voice 9: I think that expanding resources to gather feedback

[3:54:28] Voice 9: that will not actually inform budget decisions

[3:54:34] Voice 9: does kind of have a kind of smacks of not being very useful.

[3:54:41] Voice 9: I think the other thing that I would bring up

[3:54:44] Voice 9: is that in terms of timing,

[3:54:46] Voice 9: I know we discussed around corporate planning process,

[3:54:52] Voice 9: that having public feedback inform the budget early in the cycle

[3:54:59] Voice 9: um as opposed to when the most of the heavy lifting has been done uh might be a better model

[3:55:07] Voice 9: what we're looking at again with this project charter is um is financial planning committee

[3:55:14] Voice 9: will have uh uh essentially vetted most of the budget quite heavily by the time

[3:55:21] Voice 9: um webinars are proposed for january again i think that's i think that i think our timing is off

[3:55:30] Voice 9: and it's it's for those reasons that that I voted last last time to not advance the public

[3:55:42] Voice 9: engagement thank

[3:55:44] Voice 14: you Dr. Frater you've heard some issues here perhaps you could just engage

[3:55:49] Voice 14: the various points have been brought up

[3:55:51] Voice 7: thank you chair yes happy to I would note that a couple of

[3:55:58] Voice 7: points that have been raised I just want to provide comment on is the comment around never

[3:56:01] Voice 7: having influenced council decisions around the budget or FPC decisions. It's difficult for staff

[3:56:06] Voice 7: to state what particular what the intent was of a trustee in passing a motion to amend the budget

[3:56:11] Voice 7: was but I was reflecting as I was preparing this there have been instances where I could

[3:56:16] Voice 7: directly attribute a change in the past to the engagement one would be around bylaw enforcement

[3:56:20] Voice 7: it may seem incongruent to what's happening now around the mood of bylaw engagement but

[3:56:24] Voice 7: But back in the day, there was definitely a public reaction asking for more bylaw engagement, such that the trust then amended the budget to add in another bylaw enforcement position.

[3:56:33] Voice 7: The same would be said of the stewardship education program that came about as a result of feedback from the public that they wanted the trust to provide more education work around the trust area.

[3:56:45] Voice 7: So those are two I can think of that did, you know, sort of I could draw a linear line from the engagement results to the decisions.

[3:56:52] Voice 7: But certainly, I think if you speak with your colleagues, there were instances in the past where changes were made.

[3:56:57] Voice 7: It's just difficult for staff to state that in a confident way.

[3:57:02] Voice 7: I would also just note it is through legislation in the Local Government Act, all local governments must engage on the budget.

[3:57:10] Voice 7: It is not, however, in the Atlas Trust Act.

[3:57:12] Voice 7: So that is why you'll see every other local government must engage on the budget.

[3:57:16] Voice 7: Atlas Trust does not have that same requirement, possibly because of the preserve and protect mandates.

[3:57:22] Voice 7: you're expected to fund the operations such that they serve the mandate. If you're interested in

[3:57:29] Voice 7: digging back into past poll results, I'll note for you they are posted on the survey and polls

[3:57:32] Voice 7: page on our website. So they're all available there going back in time for you to dig through

[3:57:36] Voice 7: those past results. I did note in the briefing that if you were going to engage in any period

[3:57:42] Voice 7: of time, you do have a new strategic plan. So this could act as a proxy for feedback around

[3:57:47] Voice 7: the prioritization and public interest in the various initiatives proposed in that plan.

[3:57:53] Voice 7: And finally, two things. One further thing is around timing is something that's often raised

[3:57:59] Voice 7: that financial planning committee particularly doesn't feel like they have enough time with the

[3:58:02] Voice 7: results because they get them in an agenda package, you know, approximately a week before

[3:58:07] Voice 7: their meeting. And that doesn't feel like sufficient time to dig in. One way around that

[3:58:12] Voice 7: would be to have us amend the charter to either schedule a special meeting after trust council in

[3:58:17] Voice 7: December, so the FPC could review the amended budget materials in such a way that the engagement

[3:58:22] Voice 7: could start earlier. The other way would be to delegate approval of those materials to the chair.

[3:58:28] Voice 7: And finally, with regard to the property tax mailer, that is something that comes to this

[3:58:32] Voice 7: committee for comment. Staff would appreciate if you have changes you want to that, and I've heard

[3:58:36] Voice 7: a few today. Maybe we should discuss that earlier in the cycle than previously. But with the new

[3:58:42] Voice 7: information we've received from the ministry around you know the impact of tax increases

[3:58:46] Voice 7: based off last year certainly i would recommend that something that is a new piece of information

[3:58:50] Voice 7: we add into that mailing um and certainly we can you know create it from the ground up this year

[3:58:54] Voice 7: should you wish to do that uh those are my reflections for now thank you uh

[3:59:00] Voice 14: just to follow

[3:59:01] Voice 14: up on something you said there uh returning to this question of timing especially trustee

[3:59:05] Voice 14: peterson's point which seems quite a strong one which is you know when we're and it's related to

[3:59:12] Voice 14: the point i made before once we've actually got to the point we've got a budget with a whole bunch

[3:59:16] Voice 14: of line items and we're asking people to comment on that that's kind of a it's both late and a

[3:59:21] Voice 14: rather kind of backwards way of getting strategic input uh it might be more productive to simply

[3:59:29] Voice 14: ask the public up front before we develop the budget where it thinks uh our priorities should

[3:59:36] Voice 14: be because then that can actually that can actually genuinely help inform the development

[3:59:41] Voice 14: of the budget because let's get realistic once that thing is drafted there's just going to be

[3:59:46] Voice 14: a lot of inertia but in terms of changing anything I mean whether something in the past is sort of

[3:59:51] Voice 14: contributed to or not okay I'll take what you say at face value but the question is over the long term

[4:00:00] Voice 14: Does the effort, the staff resources, and the money we spent on engagement, is it worth it for that level of changes?

[4:00:07] Voice 14: Anyhow, Trustee Leckham,

[4:00:12] Voice 13: you're muted.

[4:00:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): Thank you, Trustee Bernardi.

[4:00:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): You've stolen a bit of the wind out of my sails there, but I'll endeavor.

[4:00:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): I just want to make a couple of remarks and then follow up on what you've said there.

[4:00:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): there is, I think that the budget consultation does in fact inform trustees, whether that actually

[4:00:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): sways a decision is a different matter. And, and certainly there has been debate on the budget and,

[4:00:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): but the changes have never passed. So yeah, it didn't change the budget, not that it wasn't

[4:00:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): considered or informed. So I just want to be conscious of that. The other thing is, is that

[4:00:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): We don't do services like, do you want to upgrade the swimming pool? Do you want more trails? All that sort of thing. We don't do that. And so looking for that input isn't something that we do.

[4:01:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): The reality is that making, as you've said, Trustee Bernardo, realistically making the changes this late into the cycle is difficult.

[4:01:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): So, therefore, I suggest that, indeed, this needs to happen much earlier. In fact, immediately after the budget is adopted, or six months at the maximum after the budget is adopted, let's ask the question and state it in a positive framework, definitely supporting Trustees Evans' words there, is this is what we're spending your money on this term.

[4:01:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): term what and so therefore what areas should we be should we consider in our next budget cycle

[4:01:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): and so give that opportunity for people to weigh in early where it is that we should be turning

[4:01:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): our attention and then indeed we can build that into a future budget it just it seems to make

[4:01:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): sense to me we've struggled with this question all this time and i think we could do a better

[4:02:04] Trustee Luckham (probable): job by just approaching it in a different way thank you thank you uh

[4:02:10] Voice 15: trustee evans thank you

[4:02:13] Voice 5: and uh you stole the wind out of my sail so i was going to say something very similar

[4:02:18] Voice 5: um so i'm definitely in agreeance with getting this out earlier i was going to say uh six months

[4:02:23] Voice 5: along too um and another thing that i was going to suggest um there's a lot of like i said there's

[4:02:29] Voice 5: a lot of really good information in here um i think just reordering it a little bit um i'm

[4:02:34] Voice 5: I'm looking again at page 55, second to last paragraph, where it's talking about the proposed

[4:02:40] Voice 5: project's budget and the information there. We don't see the tables and the rest of that

[4:02:46] Voice 5: information until page 58. By the time somebody's read down there, they've forgotten it and they're

[4:02:51] Voice 5: not going to find it again. So if we can take that information and apply it to page 58 that

[4:02:56] Voice 5: supports it, that I think would also be very helpful because then we're aiding the public in

[4:03:03] Voice 5: how they're digesting this information and we're grouping together the elements so that they they

[4:03:08] Voice 5: they get the full picture because i can guarantee um they're not going to be able to remember it

[4:03:15] Voice 5: um so uh yeah so my two comments were thank you help

[4:03:20] Voice 5: reduce the text and keep the pictures and

[4:03:23] Voice 5: put it earlier in the cycle thank you thank

[4:03:26] Voice 14: you and i'm going to ask the group and we do have

[4:03:28] Voice 14: other business to conduct i'm going to ask them let's see what we can do to try to zero in on

[4:03:32] Voice 14: some kind of outcome with this um and i see trustee bullen you've got something to to say here

[4:03:38] Voice 14: but uh certainly whatever

[4:03:40] Voice 4: i have a motion well

[4:03:42] Voice 14: just a moment uh i just wanted one comment to

[4:03:44] Voice 14: make out here which was the recommendation is that we approved that the public engagement project

[4:03:51] Voice 14: chartered that's dated as of today um certainly a lot

[4:03:57] Voice 14: of what i've heard today suggests we want

[4:03:59] Voice 14: that charter amended. Troti Boland.

[4:04:04] Voice 4: I think I concur with all the previous

[4:04:07] Voice 4: statements. This is too late in this cycle but I do agree that communication is good.

[4:04:15] Voice 4: Last year the webinar was quite successful and it was held in January and I have a motion

[4:04:25] Voice 4: motion to propose that we go ahead and run the webinar again and do inline polls during the

[4:04:31] Voice 4: webinar to get a sense of, you know, just to gather information from the public. So I have

[4:04:39] Voice 4: a motion to propose that we would run the webinar, but maybe first of all, we need to

[4:04:44] Voice 4: vote on whether to adopt or not this entire package, which I wouldn't vote in favour of,

[4:04:52] Voice 4: i might add uh

[4:04:54] Voice 14: i've uh we've got a bunch of issues tangled up here and i'm going to

[4:04:59] Voice 14: look to director freighter here to help us out you've heard a lot of comments here director

[4:05:03] Voice 14: freighter about a desire

[4:05:06] Voice 14: for greater communication skepticism about how the timing of the whole

[4:05:09] Voice 14: business and a kind of reorientation more towards communicating rather than in communicating more

[4:05:18] Voice 14: about strategic issues and then specific budgetary items uh how do we from the staff's perspective

[4:05:28] Voice 14: how do we answer what's the best way forward to answer those concerns of the trustees you've just

[4:05:34] Voice 14: heard here uh as i mentioned before i'm hearing that we that we might need to have the project

[4:05:42] Voice 14: charter uh amended in order to affect these changes but i could be wrong could you please

[4:05:46] Voice 14: address that for us um

[4:05:49] Voice 7: certainly you can the project charter is yours to amend as you wish

[4:05:53] Voice 7: and we'll execute whatever you like um the there is certainly an opportunity to change the property

[4:05:59] Voice 7: tax mailer which is your most direct your one your one opportunity to land in everyone's mailbox

[4:06:05] Voice 7: once a year at no cost to the trust so certainly that could be amended to include information

[4:06:10] Voice 7: that's currently in the survey if you wanted to change the content though it's been mailed now i

[4:06:15] Voice 7: I think three, maybe four years, primarily executive committee had led the notion that

[4:06:19] Voice 7: it would provide information about what the Islands Trust is. So currently the topics are

[4:06:24] Voice 7: more about what is the Islands Trust rather than the specifics of the budget, but you could direct

[4:06:28] Voice 7: and recommend changes to that. We could certainly offer a webinar in January. What I would say is

[4:06:36] Voice 7: if that is to be your primary engagement method, I think the last time we offered it, I'd have to

[4:06:40] Voice 7: to look back, but maybe 50 participants. So it certainly wouldn't be on par with getting,

[4:06:45] Voice 7: you know, I think we were well over a thousand in the last survey. So you'd be getting a small

[4:06:49] Voice 7: feedback from a smaller pool of people. But we are happy to support. In terms of communication,

[4:06:55] Voice 7: we are challenged. It's hard to get drive people to the budget page of our website

[4:06:58] Voice 7: without necessarily doing an engagement of sorts. And it's for you to determine what utility the

[4:07:05] Voice 7: feedback would have to you and to your colleagues on Trust Council. So it is best practice to engage

[4:07:09] Voice 7: on a budget if people are to be taxed it's nice to give them an opportunity to comment on how those

[4:07:14] Voice 7: taxes will be used however that's at your discretion and as they say the island's trust act

[4:07:18] Voice 7: does not require it of you does that answer your your request for feedback sufficiently not really

[4:07:25] Voice 14: um i was asking was you've heard of a variety of wishes expressed here um it sounds like to me

[4:07:36] Voice 14: that it's a those wishes would require changes to the charter is that is that right or not

[4:07:43] Voice 3: yes

[4:07:43] Voice 14: I know it's within it's within our power to change it I just want to know whether it's

[4:07:47] Voice 14: necessary to to deliver the things that people have been talking about today is that a yes or a

[4:07:52] Voice 14: no so

[4:07:53] Voice 7: to deliver the request to deliver to have it earlier in the cycle would not be in this budget

[4:07:57] Voice 7: this charter because of course we're too late in the cycle so that could not be accomplished this

[4:08:01] Voice 7: year but you could provide direction to staff to come back earlier in the cycle and next fiscal

[4:08:06] Voice 7: year. So that could not be accomplished without a change to the charter. If you wish to deliver

[4:08:10] Voice 7: a webinar only, you could amend the charter to take out those other activities and just have it

[4:08:14] Voice 7: be webinar only. And if you want to change this to the survey, that can be accomplished without

[4:08:18] Voice 7: a change to the charter. That is what we typically do in November with the committee is bring back

[4:08:23] Voice 7: revisions to the survey, work them through, and then have final sign off in January. But again,

[4:08:28] Voice 7: those timelines can shift.

[4:08:30] Voice 14: And to make changes to the mail, or do we need to change the charter for

[4:08:34] Voice 14: that or is that how would we do that how does that happen

[4:08:36] Voice 7: that's a separate project and we'll

[4:08:38] Voice 7: be bringing back that to you later in the year okay

[4:08:40] Voice 14: thank you trustee evans um

[4:08:45] Voice 5: i was just going

[4:08:46] Voice 5: to say i would be in support of amending the current survey as discussed with the focus on

[4:08:54] Voice 5: positive input questions this is a great way of getting the budget information out and project

[4:09:00] Voice 5: information out I think is a great tool it just needs a little refinement. I think this year

[4:09:07] Voice 5: like we said the webinar had very small attendance I wouldn't support that again I think we need to

[4:09:13] Voice 5: hit as many people as possible and if there is a possibility of getting this amended and out a

[4:09:19] Voice 5: little earlier in the year then I would support that too and happy to make a motion later on

[4:09:26] Voice 5: regarding um for next budget getting this out a lot earlier okay

[4:09:36] Voice 14: uh ceo mobs we need your help

[4:09:39] Voice 14: here we're sort of wandering in the wilderness we haven't we don't seem to be selling on any

[4:09:43] Voice 14: kind of direction here but um you've got some comments uh

[4:09:48] Voice 6: just a brief comment not sure if it

[4:09:50] Voice 6: will be of great value but i'll provide it anyway in relation to timing um i do understand the

[4:09:56] Voice 6: the challenge where FPC received public feedback sort of quite late to be able to incorporate that

[4:10:05] Voice 6: into its next budget draft. However, Council, of course, Trust Council being the decision-making

[4:10:10] Voice 6: body, they'll have that feedback for a longer duration of time. So there is opportunity,

[4:10:16] Voice 6: I think, for that decision-making body to sit with that information longer and perhaps make

[4:10:20] Voice 6: changes to the budget in march as a result of that all right it

[4:10:26] Voice 6: doesn't mean we can't

[4:10:27] Voice 6: adjust timing for future years absolutely if we want to go earlier excellent um but if it's

[4:10:32] Voice 6: a restriction this year or this budget cycle um that's a comment that i offer well trustees you

[4:10:39] Voice 14: got a decision in front of you you got a recommendation from staff that says you know

[4:10:43] Voice 14: here we have the project charter carry on um we've heard from director freighter saying the things

[4:10:49] Voice 14: you'd all like to see require a change the project charter so uh what do you guys want to do trustee

[4:10:56] Voice 14: evans okay

[4:10:58] Voice 5: i'll make one motion i move that uh financial planning committee requests staff to

[4:11:05] Voice 5: amend the current survey as per the discussions held in this meeting like it

[4:11:12] Voice 5: Okay. Help me out with the wording here.

[4:11:15] Voice 14: Survey or project charter?

[4:11:19] Voice 5: Let's see. I thought they were, I thought that whatever it's in here, it's from page 49 to whatever it is.

[4:11:32] Voice 5: How far down does it go? It's quite long.

[4:11:42] Voice 5: To page 68. That's the survey, correct?

[4:11:51] Voice 7: If I might, Chair?

[4:11:53] Voice 13: Go ahead.

[4:11:54] Voice 7: Chair Evans, you might want to consider a resolution

[4:11:56] Voice 7: such as to feature less text and more visuals,

[4:11:59] Voice 7: something that simple staff could take direction from.

[4:12:03] Voice 5: It's also readjusting the order of the paragraphs

[4:12:09] Voice 5: of wording and tightening it up.

[4:12:11] Voice 5: There was, and I can, like, we've had lengthy discussions.

[4:12:17] Voice 5: I don't know how to tighten that up in there.

[4:12:24] Voice 14: Well, let's just leave it the way it is.

[4:12:25] Voice 14: I mean, it's, you know, Director Frater, I mean, you've got the message, more text, or sorry, less text, less text, more visuals, reorganize it. I mean, we, you know, there's a limit to how prescriptive we can get in this forum. I think that does the job to do that.

[4:12:45] Voice 14: the question is, this resolution will amend the current survey. Is there anything else that you

[4:12:53] Voice 14: want changed in the, I'm asking all this question directly to you, Trustee Evans, but also the other

[4:13:00] Voice 14: trustees. Is there anything else we want changed in the charter, project charter?

[4:13:06] Voice 5: What's the project

[4:13:07] Voice 5: charter versus the survey?

[4:13:09] Voice 7: If I might, Chair, it might be best to deal with this motion and then

[4:13:12] Voice 7: move on to a motion about the charter okay the work

[4:13:15] Voice 2: plan overview on 48 covers when it would

[4:13:18] Voice 2: come out and so if we want to adjust the timing it would be the charter and the work plan i believe

[4:13:23] Voice 2: so right all right

[4:13:26] Voice 14: well let's do let's we're making some

[4:13:28] Voice 14: progress we have this one issue

[4:13:29] Voice 14: that's the motion in front of the floor do we have a seconder i'd

[4:13:32] Voice 4: like to to to mention something

[4:13:35] Voice 4: first please okay

[4:13:38] Voice 13: which

[4:13:39] Voice 4: we could build in here so the editing the survey and

[4:13:44] Voice 4: the survey is predicated a lot of the information on having a December Trust

[4:13:52] Voice 4: Council approved budget and that drives the timing which is that it comes out in

[4:13:59] Voice 4: January. If we went with something more generic, and didn't rely on having that approved budget,

[4:14:08] Voice 4: but went in the direction of it being more engagement, then we could bring it out sooner.

[4:14:14] Voice 4: I mean, that requirement for the December approved budget to be in it is what causes

[4:14:19] Voice 4: most of the delay. Is that true, Claire? Could we change that? Could you make a suggestion? Thanks.

[4:14:26] Voice 4: um

[4:14:27] Voice 7: certainly yes we can change timing as i mentioned earlier we've just worked off past

[4:14:32] Voice 7: practice that the all of the amended materials after council changes the budget in december

[4:14:37] Voice 7: come back to fpc for approval in january um we could move that up that could be done soon after

[4:14:44] Voice 7: trust council either by delegating that approvals to the chair or scheduling a special fpc meeting

[4:14:49] Voice 7: you could also go out in a more generic way ahead of december i will mention this year we might be

[4:14:54] Voice 7: be challenged to do so because, of course, the program coordinator position that supports all

[4:14:57] Voice 7: this is likely not to be filled until late October, November. So I might be somewhat

[4:15:02] Voice 7: challenged to execute on that this year, but it might be just fine. Well, we would certainly try

[4:15:06] Voice 7: and I would come back to you if it looks unachievable. And then you could go out and,

[4:15:10] Voice 7: you know, one of the reasons the committee had previously wanted to go out in January was so

[4:15:15] Voice 7: not to be engaging over the holiday period. That is, again, at your discretion. If you want to go

[4:15:19] Voice 7: out in mid-December and leave it open till mid-January, that's at your discretion.

[4:15:24] Voice 7: We could take direction on that.

[4:15:27] Voice 14: Okay.

[4:15:27] Voice 14: Well, that's a timing issue, which sounds more like it's details to do with the charter.

[4:15:34] Voice 14: What we have before us now is this specific resolution to deal with amending the current survey.

[4:15:41] Voice 14: Trustee Evans has made the resolution.

[4:15:43] Voice 14: Is anybody seconding in that resolution?

[4:15:50] Voice 14: Trustee Elliott has raised her hand.

[4:15:51] Voice 14: She is seconding the resolution.

[4:15:55] Voice 14: We are running out of time here.

[4:15:57] Voice 14: There's other business to do.

[4:15:58] Voice 14: I'm not going to entertain any further discussion on this item.

[4:16:03] Voice 14: those in favor please raise your hands please lower your hands those opposed

[4:16:15] Voice 14: please raise your hands so

[4:16:17] Voice 8: to oppose six in favor I

[4:16:19] Voice 14: don't think one opposed I

[4:16:22] Voice 14: think CEO moms gets to oppose

[4:16:24] Voice 8: she

[4:16:26] Voice 14: gets to oppose but quietly all right that one

[4:16:33] Voice 14: If no one passes, see you at once.

[4:16:38] Voice 6: I just wanted to reassure you that the remaining items

[4:16:41] Voice 6: on the agenda are going to be much easier

[4:16:44] Voice 6: and shorter to address.

[4:16:45] Voice 6: If that helps you feel less pressed for time.

[4:16:48] Voice 14: Thank you.

[4:16:49] Voice 14: All right, we still have,

[4:16:54] Voice 14: do we have anything further discussed here specifically?

[4:16:57] Voice 14: I'm thinking about, there was some reference before

[4:16:59] Voice 14: to issues about timing and issues like that,

[4:17:02] Voice 14: which are outside the framework of this survey.

[4:17:05] Voice 14: we've heard Director Frey to refer

[4:17:06] Voice 14: to the possibility of timing.

[4:17:09] Voice 14: The question before us still hasn't answered.

[4:17:11] Voice 14: Do we approve the charter as drafted right now

[4:17:13] Voice 14: with it's now been amended, the survey has been amended,

[4:17:16] Voice 14: but everything else in the charter,

[4:17:17] Voice 14: what else do we do about it?

[4:17:18] Voice 14: Trustee Peterson.

[4:17:21] Voice 9: I had a question about for Director Frey

[4:17:24] Voice 9: about bringing the tax notice potentially

[4:17:28] Voice 9: to our next meeting and I wonder,

[4:17:30] Voice 9: I realize we're on other business,

[4:17:33] Voice 9: but would you want a motion to that effect?

[4:17:39] Voice 9: Uh, you're muted.

[4:17:42] Voice 7: Yes, that would be great to have a motion to that effect.

[4:17:46] Voice 9: Okay. Thank you, chair. Uh, when, when we're, when we're done with this item,

[4:17:50] Voice 9: I'd like to make a motion to that effect. And that would be a motion to table this,

[4:17:54] Voice 9: the next meeting?

[4:17:56] Voice 7: No, I think.

[4:17:58] Voice 9: No, sir. To bring that, that, the tax notice to the next meeting.

[4:18:02] Voice 9: Oh, I see. Right. Uh, Trustee Elliott.

[4:18:06] Voice 2: So, um, is it feasible if we look at page 47 of the agenda,

[4:18:11] Voice 2: And October, FPC reviews a budget engagement project charter.

[4:18:16] Voice 2: If we move that to July and August, so essentially three months earlier and everything else, engagement document in November moves to maybe September.

[4:18:30] Voice 2: Does that shift the public engagement enough back in the cycle?

[4:18:38] Voice 2: So, yeah, what you've got highlighted there to move that to July and August and then going to the project charter would just amend basically moving everything back three months would be my proposal.

[4:18:55] Voice 14: Well, that would be relevant to next year, right?

[4:18:57] Voice 14: Like, I mean, it's.

[4:18:58] Voice 14: Yeah.

[4:18:59] Voice 14: Yeah.

[4:19:00] Voice 14: We're dealing with this year still.

[4:19:03] Voice 2: OK, well, if we don't want to make any changes to the charter for this year, then no need for resolution.

[4:19:11] Voice 14: The question is whether we do or we don't.

[4:19:13] Voice 14: I don't know.

[4:19:14] Voice 14: Trustee Evans?

[4:19:16] Voice 5: I was going to recommend something along the line to have staff come back with what's feasible.

[4:19:24] Voice 5: And I don't think, like, yeah, I don't know what's feasible this year, but perhaps there's something that staff can come back with.

[4:19:33] Voice 5: And then we revisit this at our next meeting.

[4:19:38] Voice 7: If I might, Chair?

[4:19:39] Voice 13: Director Frater.

[4:19:41] Voice 7: Can I just ask for more clarity around the word feasible?

[4:19:43] Voice 7: Do you mean feasible in terms of executing or developing a survey, developing of survey

[4:19:48] Voice 7: questions?

[4:19:49] Voice 5: No, as in updating the charter as to when this is happening.

[4:19:54] Voice 5: So if this is why I'm posing the question now before I do any motions.

[4:20:01] Voice 7: So with regard to delivering the project charter in front of you is for delivering the survey

[4:20:06] Voice 7: of this fiscal year.

[4:20:07] Voice 7: if the if the concern around delivering it is around the how long fpc has to review the results

[4:20:13] Voice 7: we could certainly tweak the timing on page 48 as it's proposed to look at having a special

[4:20:21] Voice 7: meeting in december after council to look at amended survey materials or you could delegate

[4:20:26] Voice 7: that to the chair and forego that january approval and kick off the engagement sooner

[4:20:30] Voice 7: if the discussion is in fact about i think as trustee elliott was mentioning about next

[4:20:35] Voice 7: next year. We can undertake engagement at any point in the year. However, doing so before

[4:20:42] Voice 7: councils approved a budget in December means that it would be less detailed in nature. You'd simply

[4:20:47] Voice 7: be engaging on more principled questions around the Islands Trust than you would be getting around

[4:20:52] Voice 7: the actual initiatives and strategic plan initiatives that are being proposed to be

[4:20:56] Voice 7: funded through the budget.

[4:20:58] Voice 5: Thank you. And I have a second question based on that exact point.

[4:21:03] Voice 5: so if if we were to request that you amend the current charter as discussed as you just mentioned

[4:21:14] Voice 5: yes and then for the next year we could have almost like a split one we can have the

[4:21:20] Voice 5: um the feel-good survey up front and then we can have the detailed budget information come out

[4:21:29] Voice 5: at the second end of the year, so that we're not providing really vague budgetary assumptions

[4:21:41] Voice 5: or information in June or July. So can those two things actually be separated?

[4:21:47] Voice 7: Absolutely. Yes, we could do two separate engagements for you.

[4:21:51] Voice 5: Okay, that might be another solution.

[4:21:57] Voice 14: And we're blue-skying some suggestions here about how to improve the process for next year.

[4:22:03] Voice 14: given the time allotted,

[4:22:05] Voice 14: I don't think we're going to figure out

[4:22:06] Voice 14: all those details now.

[4:22:08] Voice 14: Director Frater, I hope you would.

[4:22:11] Voice 14: This business of always requiring a resolution

[4:22:13] Voice 14: for every time we have to blow your nose

[4:22:15] Voice 14: is kind of annoying.

[4:22:17] Voice 14: But I mean, you've heard plenty from this committee

[4:22:20] Voice 14: about how they'd like to see this process changed

[4:22:25] Voice 14: for the next cycle.

[4:22:27] Voice 14: I would hope that this communication aspect,

[4:22:30] Voice 14: that the staff could simply take the comments

[4:22:32] Voice 14: that you've received today

[4:22:34] Voice 14: and use them when you develop the strategy for the next budget cycle.

[4:22:42] Voice 14: As for the time being, we have a timing issue right now in terms of the survey.

[4:22:46] Voice 14: And perhaps, do we need a resolution to change the timing of that along the lines of what you've heard so far?

[4:22:55] Voice 7: If the committee would like to proceed with the charter as presented with changes to the survey content,

[4:23:01] Voice 7: you could adopt this charter as amended.

[4:23:04] Voice 7: And I would assume that the as amended piece would involve getting quicker approvals on the draft materials after Trust Council meets in December, and launching the survey earlier, such that we close it earlier and get the results out earlier. That is what I think I've heard. And yes, I can take away the general feedback received.

[4:23:28] Voice 15: Okay, Trustee Luckham.

[4:23:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): yeah i'm reluctant to do this next round of surveys because i don't think we've actually

[4:23:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): changed the game sufficiently to change the outcome but that said i would like us to have

[4:23:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): a conversation at a future financial planning committee meeting about what an early phase

[4:23:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): consultation for next year is um that is i and i lost the word that you used it was a good word

[4:23:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): I'm going to say aspirational aspects of the direction of the trust that can be incorporated into a budget cycle, you know, do more of this and do more of that or do less of this. And I think we get better outcomes from a different process. So, over to you.

[4:24:15] Voice 13: Trustee Evans.

[4:24:18] Voice 5: I'm going to move the motion that financial planning committee approved the 2025-26

[4:24:23] Voice 5: budget public engagement project charter dated August 28, 2024 as amended.

[4:24:32] Voice 14: We have a seconder. I see Trustee Elliott has raised her hand.

[4:24:39] Voice 14: We've discussed this thing. I'm going to put it up for a vote. Those in favor,

[4:24:43] Voice 14: please put your hands up so

[4:24:50] Voice 13: please lower your hands and

[4:24:56] Voice 14: uh and uh sorry uh those sorry those

[4:24:59] Voice 14: opposed please raise your hands uh the motion's defeated i think we take that as an expression

[4:25:13] Voice 14: that the uh there's no support on this committee for the whole public engagement process doesn't

[4:25:18] Voice 14: work let's move on uh the next agenda item i believe is uh a record um 7.5 uh special property

[4:25:37] Voice 14: tax requisition a request for decision for the trust council and this is coming to us however

[4:25:43] Voice 14: for information only uh interim ceo mobs please uh

[4:25:50] Voice 6: thanks chair i'll be braced with this um so

[4:25:52] Voice 6: So many moons ago, Trust Council asked staff to recommend some amendment to its policy

[4:25:57] Voice 6: on special property tax requisitions, particularly addressing how unspent special property tax

[4:26:03] Voice 6: requisition funds are used.

[4:26:05] Voice 6: This work was completed, and FPC did review the revised policy in February of 2021 and

[4:26:11] Voice 6: October of 2022.

[4:26:13] Voice 6: There's a sentence in here that says that FPC at the time gave no recommendations on

[4:26:17] Voice 6: the proposed amendments.

[4:26:18] Voice 6: That's not accurate.

[4:26:19] Voice 6: it they gave no changes to the proposed recommendations that staff have put forward

[4:26:23] Voice 6: so I'll correct that before this travels to trust council there was the that was last reviewed by

[4:26:31] Voice 6: former FTC in October 2022 which of course is right before elections took place and so advancing

[4:26:37] Voice 6: the proposed amendments this policy to trust council did not take place early this term

[4:26:41] Voice 6: savoring orientation above this work and then this has fallen off the wayside a little bit

[4:26:46] Voice 6: So we picked it up again. We will be advancing it to Trust Council with the recommended changes from former FPC.

[4:26:52] Voice 6: So it's included here for your information before it goes to Trust Council.

[4:26:57] Voice 6: Certainly, we can take any comments or questions if there are any on this policy before it finds its way forward.

[4:27:03] Voice 6: And the amendments begin on page 72 of the agenda package.

[4:27:08] Voice 14: Given the time constraints, let's limit to questions. Let's cool it with the comments.

[4:27:15] Voice 14: any questions people need for clarification this is an information item okay whoops i see a hand

[4:27:26] Voice 14: go up yes betsy peterson and then first i had

[4:27:30] Voice 9: a motion um that i didn't quite get a chance to

[4:27:35] Voice 9: make on our last item but well

[4:27:37] Voice 14: hang on and

[4:27:37] Voice 9: then i'd like to make it

[4:27:39] Voice 14: we'll we'll deal with that

[4:27:40] Voice 14: after uh that actually is new business it's evolved out of this we'll get to it in a moment

[4:27:45] Voice 14: I ask you, Trustee Petersen, hang on to that one.

[4:27:48] Voice 14: We'll get there.

[4:27:49] Voice 14: Let's at the moment, we're just dealing with questions

[4:27:51] Voice 14: about the special levy here.

[4:27:53] Voice 14: Trustee Elliott.

[4:27:54] Voice 2: Thank you, Chair.

[4:27:56] Voice 2: I think it's just a grammar issue 6.3,

[4:28:03] Voice 2: which is on page 75.

[4:28:06] Voice 2: I think in the translation here, it reads,

[4:28:09] Voice 2: any funds generated through the special requisition unspent

[4:28:12] Voice 2: be held and resolved in the subsequent fiscal year

[4:28:14] Voice 2: year two, then 6.3.1 says for any purpose, and then 6.3.4 reads in the event. So I don't know

[4:28:25] Voice 2: if that two is an orphan, but it doesn't read well.

[4:28:36] Voice 6: If I may, Chair?

[4:28:38] Voice 13: Go ahead.

[4:28:41] Voice 6: Great catch. That's an easy fix. We will just have the opener end at fiscal year, and 6.3.1

[4:28:50] Voice 6: will just say for any purpose for which etc and 632 will say to reduce the amount so thank you

[4:28:56] Voice 6: for that catch we'll amend that before this goes to council all

[4:29:01] Voice 14: right thank you let's move on now

[4:29:05] Voice 14: to the um uh 7.6 was pretty important to the fbc working group the verbal report uh we need an

[4:29:17] Voice 15: update what's happening corporate planning we want it to happen

[4:29:22] Voice 2: sorry don't we have to approve the

[4:29:24] Voice 2: amendments to the policy? Or no, it's Trust Council. I apologize.

[4:29:29] Voice 2: Are

[4:29:31] Voice 14: we done? All right. Working group. Who's speaking now? Who's going to report,

[4:29:41] Voice 14: provide us an update on where we're at in terms of advancing the corporate plan?

[4:29:48] Voice 6: I can provide some introductory comments if you'd like.

[4:29:51] Voice 14: Oh, we're surprised. We're surprised. We need to hear from Infant CEO Mob. Go ahead.

[4:29:58] Voice 6: So the FCC working group...

[4:30:00] Voice 6: group, Trustee Evans, Trustee Boland, and Trustee Patrick, who's not here today, unfortunately.

[4:30:07] Voice 6: It's been a while since the group has gotten together. The last time that we met, there was

[4:30:12] Voice 6: understanding that the corporate planning process was advancing as approved by Trust Council.

[4:30:18] Voice 6: The next step in the corporate planning process was to have Trust Council establish a strategic

[4:30:23] Voice 6: plan. A strategic plan is what drives the rest of the corporate plan. So as everyone's aware,

[4:30:30] Voice 6: at March and June Trust Councils, there were sessions for drafting the strategic plan.

[4:30:35] Voice 6: That strategic plan will be advancing to September's Trust Council meeting for final approval.

[4:30:41] Voice 6: From there, the plan will be handed over to senior level staff to put together a departmental work

[4:30:47] Voice 6: plan. And the departmental work plans are essentially going to map through time how we

[4:30:51] Voice 6: we will achieve the priorities and initiatives of Trust Council that are in the strategic plan.

[4:30:57] Voice 6: As part of the exercise with Trust Council in September, there is going to have to be a

[4:31:01] Voice 6: prioritization exercise because, of course, the plan that was put together is for more years than

[4:31:07] Voice 6: we have remaining in this term. And so, Trust Council will have to prioritize what initiatives

[4:31:13] Voice 6: it would like to focus on. And then, of course, staff will take those prioritizations and reflect

[4:31:18] Voice 6: that in the associated work plan. So we acknowledge the corporate planning process is

[4:31:23] Voice 6: advancing, although perhaps there hasn't been excellent reporting out to this particular group.

[4:31:27] Voice 6: There is still some tweaking that can be done to the process, which the working group has

[4:31:32] Voice 6: acknowledged, particularly around inclusion of timing about when each activity will take place.

[4:31:38] Voice 6: So we sort of outlined the sort of the map, the roadmap and what activities should take place

[4:31:43] Voice 6: and assigning generic timelines that will also help support

[4:31:47] Voice 6: that they actually are undertaken when they should be.

[4:31:51] Voice 6: If there's comments from working group trustees,

[4:31:53] Voice 6: I think it's a good time to give them the floor to speak.

[4:31:59] Voice 15: Trustees Evans and Boland, comments,

[4:32:02] Voice 15: contributions you'd like to make?

[4:32:06] Voice 15: Trustee Evans.

[4:32:10] Voice 5: Yes, I think we need to reconvene again

[4:32:13] Voice 5: and in order to keep advancing this,

[4:32:15] Voice 5: There were, CAO Mobs was going to be bringing forward some additional information that needs to be rolled in as well.

[4:32:25] Voice 5: And then once we were able to reconvene, now that the summer holidays are over, we should be able to start advancing this again.

[4:32:34] Voice 14: And I've got a question from CAO Mobs, which is, in your comments, what I was hearing is, you know, we're moving ahead.

[4:32:43] Voice 14: We've got the strategic planning component, a lot has been done there.

[4:32:47] Voice 14: merit has to be documented. So what I'm hearing is that we're doing the work required to implement

[4:32:53] Voice 14: the corporate planning for next budget cycle. But isn't there something we have to do before

[4:33:02] Voice 14: we pull the trigger on that? Don't we need to have a policy that documents and establishes

[4:33:08] Voice 14: the corporate planning process as an ongoing thing for the trust? And what's happening on

[4:33:17] Voice 14: that front, if anything?

[4:33:19] Voice 6: So Trust Council did review the draft corporate planning process and

[4:33:23] Voice 6: give it thumbs up a number of meetings ago. I don't recall the exact meeting. So that's already

[4:33:30] Voice 6: taken place, which is why we are advancing in the way that we are. The working group acknowledges

[4:33:35] Voice 6: there's some improvements that can be made and some tweaks to that process. It's not in the form

[4:33:44] Voice 6: right now of an official policy like it's not in our policy template it's not numbered it's not on

[4:33:48] Voice 6: the website so it's not formed in a policy that way but essentially the content has traveled to

[4:33:54] Voice 6: trust council for endorsement already.

[4:33:57] Voice 14: I understand that part of it which is why we're moving ahead

[4:33:59] Voice 14: with it but you know everything else we do you know including tying our shoelaces has a policy

[4:34:06] Voice 14: involved with it so I'm wondering if we need to have a policy established that just documents and

[4:34:10] Voice 14: had locked this thing in so that we don't end up having elaborate debates in future years about

[4:34:15] Voice 14: what corporate planning is supposed to be you know we've defined it so it sounds like we haven't

[4:34:21] Voice 14: developed policy but it seems to me that's something we should be thinking about trustee

[4:34:25] Voice 14: evans yes

[4:34:27] Voice 5: it is it is something that has been thought of right now we're running it through

[4:34:31] Voice 5: its first iterative process to find out where the gaps are and what uh what the wording needs to be

[4:34:39] Voice 5: in the document prior to turning it into policy, because once it's policy, it's a whole heap of

[4:34:44] Voice 5: other work to do in order to make changes. So we're making sure that the guiding document is

[4:34:52] Voice 5: solid first, and then we'll be looking at policy language.

[4:34:57] Voice 14: Thank you for that clarification. That's helpful. That sounds like a smart way to proceed. So

[4:35:01] Voice 14: I draw comfort from the idea that a policy will eventually be established,

[4:35:06] Voice 14: but that's a smart way to go.

[4:35:07] Voice 14: Do we have any further comments or questions

[4:35:10] Voice 14: related to the corporate planning initiative?

[4:35:12] Voice 14: All right, moving on to business 8.1,

[4:35:18] Voice 14: reducing financial costs of local trust committee meetings,

[4:35:21] Voice 14: a briefing.

[4:35:24] Voice 6: This report is here at the request

[4:35:26] Voice 6: of financial planning committee.

[4:35:28] Voice 6: So FPC had asked staff to look at some options

[4:35:30] Voice 6: for reducing the financial costs

[4:35:32] Voice 6: of local trust committee meetings and report back.

[4:35:34] Voice 6: This is primarily centered around the cost for LTC chairs

[4:35:39] Voice 6: who often have to travel quite a distance

[4:35:41] Voice 6: and sometimes stay overnight,

[4:35:43] Voice 6: which is the primary driver of costs for the LTC meetings.

[4:35:46] Voice 6: So staff have looked at a number of options

[4:35:49] Voice 6: and related to this, they're presented in this briefing.

[4:35:51] Voice 6: We're presenting all options,

[4:35:53] Voice 6: not just those that are necessarily excellent options.

[4:35:56] Voice 6: So the first one is to have all LTC chairs

[4:35:59] Voice 6: attend meetings electronically,

[4:36:00] Voice 6: which would save on the travel costs.

[4:36:03] Voice 6: So it's not a widely supported or feasible option

[4:36:06] Voice 6: as we do understand that

[4:36:08] Voice 6: If you have an in-person meeting and the chairs are electronic, it doesn't really support well-managed meetings.

[4:36:15] Voice 6: And I think historically, when that's been attempted, there has been issues with having a well-run meeting there.

[4:36:20] Voice 6: But it is an option, so we do mention it in this report.

[4:36:23] Voice 6: There's an option for LTCs to plan more of their meetings as fully electronic meetings.

[4:36:28] Voice 6: I do understand we're seeing a bit more of this practice being embraced, particularly in the north.

[4:36:33] Voice 6: And of course, any meetings that are fully electronic do not have costs for staff travel or chair travel or meeting venues.

[4:36:42] Voice 6: And so that would have an impact.

[4:36:46] Voice 6: There's a possibility to revisit the LTC meeting dates and times.

[4:36:50] Voice 6: So I do know there's some restrictions to ferry schedules, which can impact the number of nights of accommodation that chairs are required to have if they are attending and chairing LTC meetings.

[4:37:02] Voice 6: We do need to acknowledge that revisiting LTC meeting dates and times could potentially

[4:37:07] Voice 6: displace other meetings.

[4:37:09] Voice 6: We do have a lot of meetings that we have to facilitate at Islands Trust, and so even

[4:37:13] Voice 6: moving one meeting date just has a ripple effect and may be difficult to achieve.

[4:37:20] Voice 6: There's a possibility to reevaluate the LTC chair assignments that are established by

[4:37:25] Voice 6: the chair.

[4:37:26] Voice 6: And so if there's an opportunity to provide some cost savings to assign chairs to local trust areas that are more closely situated to where they actually live, that could potentially reduce costs.

[4:37:37] Voice 6: That's a political decision. It's not at the discretion of staff or this group, but that's something to consider.

[4:37:44] Voice 6: As far as getting good bang for a buck when chairs are traveling and requiring accommodation, staff can help in this arena.

[4:37:52] Voice 6: So, as soon as meeting dates are established, staff could be reaching out to accommodations

[4:37:57] Voice 6: and booking those on behalf of the traveling chairs to make sure that we're negotiating

[4:38:01] Voice 6: the provincial rates.

[4:38:02] Voice 6: And if we're booking in advance, we can also make sure that we are getting better rates

[4:38:06] Voice 6: than if we are booking last minute.

[4:38:09] Voice 6: So, this is provided for the committee as requested.

[4:38:12] Voice 6: It's a briefing, so there's no recommendation on this.

[4:38:15] Voice 6: It's simply providing information, and I'll turn it back to the committee.

[4:38:19] Voice 14: Well, trustees, you have the information, and I'll note as well that this information

[4:38:25] Voice 14: already has been provided as part of the process to the Executive Committee, which is actually

[4:38:30] Voice 14: in the driver's seat in terms of implementing any of these proposed remedies.

[4:38:37] Voice 14: Comments, please.

[4:38:38] Voice 14: Trustee Graham.

[4:38:39] Voice 10: Yeah, thank you, Chair.

[4:38:40] Voice 10: I certainly appreciate the work that went into this, trying to find some way to reduce

[4:38:45] Voice 10: that budget.

[4:38:46] Voice 10: it. But I personally wouldn't touch anything. We're halfway through the term. I know that my

[4:38:51] Voice 10: local trust committee and my constituents that show up love the way things are. Let's not rock

[4:38:57] Voice 10: the boat at this point to save a few dollars. I don't think it's worth it. Thank you.

[4:39:02] Voice 13: Of course, you're welcome.

[4:39:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): Yeah, thank you. Thanks, David, for your thoughts there about how it's affecting your local trust

[4:39:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): committee. I think that's important for us to understand as we advance this notion. The one

[4:39:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): thing that's missing for me in this is how much money are we talking about saving? I realized

[4:39:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): that depending upon the nature of whatever changes we might implement, but sometimes things are you

[4:39:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): can slice it and dice it three different ways and you still end up with soup. And so I would like to

[4:39:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): to have a better idea of how much money we're talking about saving on those elements that you've identified that could be potentially changed.

[4:39:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): Because obviously there's given expenses associated with any meeting.

[4:39:52] Trustee Luckham (probable): So there's a floor and then there's the associated travel accommodation costs on an annual basis.

[4:39:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): How much are we talking about? Just ballpark.

[4:40:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): Do you have

[4:40:04] Voice 6: a response there? Yes.

[4:40:06] Voice 6: Attached to this briefing is another report that came to

[4:40:11] Voice 6: Financial Planning Committee in November. It does provide some of the average costs for chairs as

[4:40:17] Voice 6: they travel to their various assigned local trust committee meetings. So that's on page 81 of the

[4:40:22] Voice 6: agenda. So for every meeting that was planned as electronic, for example, you would be saving

[4:40:28] Voice 6: within that range. So that information is provided there, hopefully, as of use.

[4:40:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): My apologies. My apology, I missed that.

[4:40:43] Voice 6: That's all right. You know, certainly we don't have dollars assigned to all of the options,

[4:40:48] Voice 6: for example, reassigning chairs so that they are chairing local trust committees closer to where

[4:40:54] Voice 6: they live. That's not something that is necessarily contemplated in here, although if they were

[4:40:59] Voice 6: closer perhaps they wouldn't need accommodation and that would be the savings uh would be the

[4:41:03] Voice 6: accommodation line there.

[4:41:05] Voice 15: Trustee Evans?

[4:41:07] Voice 5: Yeah I was going to say well we'll not be able to do

[4:41:10] Voice 5: anything this term perhaps we can put something in place for for future terms as recommendations

[4:41:15] Voice 5: that um uh you know it's the chair assignments are somewhat closer to their home island

[4:41:22] Voice 5: and like we said to reduce ferry costs travel costs accommodation costs um because I think

[4:41:29] Voice 5: at the moment we're talking peanuts in the whole in the whole budget element but you know say the

[4:41:34] Voice 5: penny it's it's it's all in there um so my recommendation is while we're looking at this

[4:41:42] Voice 5: i think it should be for for future guidelines rather than the remainder of this term i agree

[4:41:48] Voice 14: and i'm inclined to suggest that um any trustee who feels passionate about this issue um

[4:41:55] Voice 14: not at this meeting, but I anticipate at a future meeting,

[4:41:59] Voice 14: bringing forward a resolution that makes a recommendation to executive

[4:42:03] Voice 14: committee that it adopt this or that path, depending on what the, you know,

[4:42:08] Voice 14: how people want to think about it, but just some recommendation,

[4:42:11] Voice 14: like if there are trustees who care about it,

[4:42:14] Voice 14: that they bring forward a recommendation for the consideration of this

[4:42:16] Voice 14: committee to forward to executive committee about, you know,

[4:42:20] Voice 14: requesting or considering implementing some changes to bring about economies.

[4:42:23] Voice 14: economies, but timing isn't good for that right now.

[4:42:28] Voice 14: Trustee Elliott, I see you have your hand

[4:42:31] Voice 14: up. Please, briefly.

[4:42:34] Voice 2: I think it's important to have

[4:42:35] Voice 2: this reporting, and I think

[4:42:39] Voice 2: as an organization, we need to make some decisions about

[4:42:43] Voice 2: how we handle meetings in geographically

[4:42:47] Voice 2: far locations. I think it is not peanuts, actually,

[4:42:50] Voice 2: that a salt spring meeting costs a thousand dollars to get the chair there um salt spring

[4:42:56] Voice 2: has a lot of meetings and this is no shade on a vice chair peterson or anything else but it's just

[4:43:01] Voice 2: the factor of that assignment um and it adds up so when we're trying to save five thousand dollars

[4:43:08] Voice 2: here and there um the increasing cost of travel will only increase and so how we do meetings

[4:43:16] Voice 2: may need to be re-evaluated.

[4:43:18] Voice 2: So having this reporting, I think is critical.

[4:43:20] Voice 2: Thank you.

[4:43:23] Voice 13: All right, thank you.

[4:43:25] Voice 13: Let's move on to the next item.

[4:43:34] Voice 14: Which is

[4:43:35] Voice 14: the new business item nine.

[4:43:40] Voice 14: And I believe trustee Peterson,

[4:43:42] Voice 14: this is your chance because this sounds like new business.

[4:43:48] Voice 9: Thank you, chair.

[4:43:49] Voice 9: I just didn't want to not make this resolution.

[4:43:55] Voice 9: So I will, I've sent the resolution to Mr. Barlow

[4:43:59] Voice 9: and I will read it out.

[4:44:02] Voice 9: I move that financial planning committee request staff

[4:44:05] Voice 9: to bring the property tax notice

[4:44:07] Voice 9: to the October 16th meeting for discussion.

[4:44:13] Voice 9: We

[4:44:13] Voice 14: have a seconder.

[4:44:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): I'll second it.

[4:44:19] Voice 14: All right, trustee Luckum seconds it.

[4:44:22] Voice 14: We all know what this is all about.

[4:44:23] Voice 14: It's all about improving that mailer

[4:44:25] Voice 14: and this is our shot at doing it.

[4:44:27] Voice 14: I don't think we need to have a discussion. We've already talked about it. Putting it up for a vote. Those in favor, please raise your hands. Please now lower your hands. Anyone opposed, please now register your opposition by raising your hand. Nope. Resolution passes unanimously. Thank you. And work program.

[4:44:58] Voice 14: Chair,

[4:44:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): might I ask a question?

[4:45:00] Voice 14: By all means, go ahead.

[4:45:01] Voice 14: We

[4:45:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): had a fairly lengthy discussion there about the survey and all that sort of stuff. We didn't

[4:45:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): really come to a conclusion about how we might tackle a future process. And do you think that

[4:45:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): the conversation was adequate? I think you indicated that staff heard what we've talked

[4:45:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): about and could potentially inform future briefings that we might get. But do you think

[4:45:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): that we should have a motion to specifically ask that uh for instance that the uh public

[4:45:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): consultation on the uh the budget process begin uh six months uh prior to uh

[4:45:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): consideration of the budget um to determine where improvements may be made in the in the uh

[4:45:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): in the

[4:45:57] Voice 14: I understand your point

[4:45:58] Voice 14: Trustee Luckham

[4:45:59] Voice 14: I could be wrong but I thought we'd actually covered it

[4:46:02] Voice 14: but let's go back to Director Frater here

[4:46:05] Voice 14: just for clarification

[4:46:07] Voice 14: Director Frater

[4:46:08] Voice 14: do you have the

[4:46:10] Voice 14: I mean you heard the question

[4:46:13] Voice 14: that's coming from Trustee Luckham

[4:46:14] Voice 14: do we actually need a resolution

[4:46:15] Voice 14: to do the things

[4:46:18] Voice 14: that we would like to see happen in the future

[4:46:22] Voice 14: in terms of this

[4:46:24] Voice 14: public engagement and communication you heard a lot of ideas about how it could be improved

[4:46:29] Voice 14: and how we'd like to see future project charters along those lines

[4:46:33] Voice 14: be amended accordingly do you need a formal resolution from us

[4:46:41] Voice 14: before you undertake to change the template of the project charters for these consultations

[4:46:48] Voice 7: certainly that would be helpful right now staff are directed by trust the trust council budget

[4:46:52] Voice 7: budget process policy. And so that directs the manner in which it happens in the sequence of

[4:46:57] Voice 7: events. So if you think that this is indeed a permanent shift that you think the trust should

[4:47:01] Voice 7: make, it would be helpful to have you recommend to trust council that they have staff amend that

[4:47:06] Voice 7: policy to reflect the new way of doing business. That would be useful to undertake. If you wish

[4:47:12] Voice 7: us to bring something back for future meetings for consideration, it would also be helpful to

[4:47:17] Voice 7: to have that direction.

[4:47:20] Voice 14: Do you need a resolution?

[4:47:21] Voice 14: I was going to suggest that you bring a suitable resolution

[4:47:24] Voice 14: to us at the next meeting in October.

[4:47:27] Voice 14: Do you need a resolution for our request

[4:47:30] Voice 14: that you prepare a resolution?

[4:47:31] Voice 7: It is good practice for, you know,

[4:47:34] Voice 7: when work is being requested to have it there

[4:47:36] Voice 7: such that I can also have, you know,

[4:47:38] Voice 7: I've got a lot to track and it is helpful

[4:47:39] Voice 7: for staff to have it assigned and also provides clarity

[4:47:42] Voice 7: in terms of demonstrating where the different work pressures

[4:47:45] Voice 7: are flowing out of different committees.

[4:47:47] Voice 14: well gang you you heard what director freighter said who's got the resolution uh

[4:47:51] Voice 14: the resolution for the resolution i'm

[4:47:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): ready to give that a try sir fire

[4:47:57] Voice 14: away trustee luckham

[4:47:58] Voice 14: i

[4:47:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): would move that financial planning committee ask staff to bring a briefing to a future

[4:48:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): fpc meeting considering options for future public engagement at a very early start date

[4:48:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): in advance of the budget cycle.

[4:48:22] Voice 14: Do you have all that information, Mr. Barlow?

[4:48:31] Voice 1: No, I don't believe I do.

[4:48:33] Voice 1: I have here, let me show you what I did capture.

[4:48:38] Voice 1: Let me make it a little bit larger for you to see.

[4:48:41] Voice 1: The Financial Planning Committee requests staff to bring a briefing

[4:48:44] Voice 1: to a future FPC meeting, and then things started falling apart.

[4:48:51] Voice 1: Considering options.

[4:48:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): options. So to consider options for future early budget engagement as

[4:49:06] Voice 14: discussed. You mean public

[4:49:07] Voice 14: engagement?

[4:49:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): Yeah, public engagement, yeah,

[4:49:10] Voice 14: as discussed. Would that do the job, Director

[4:49:14] Voice 14: Frater?

[4:49:16] Voice 7: Yes, thank you. I appreciate it.

[4:49:18] Voice 14: Do we have a seconder for the motion? Trustee Peterson

[4:49:23] Voice 14: is seconding the motion. Let's put it to a vote. Those in favor, please raise your hands.

[4:49:29] Voice 14: hands please lower your hands anybody opposed please raise your hands none registered passes

[4:49:39] Voice 14: unanimously thank you and uh we're whizzing by with all these various things uh trustee peterson

[4:49:49] Voice 14: i've already lost track we've passed your your concern haven't we we've dealt with that good

[4:49:53] Voice 3: we

[4:49:54] Voice 14: did sir yeah wow must have been three minutes ago and already forgotten okay work program

[4:50:00] Voice 14: financial planning the proposal here is that the uh financial planning committee for the work

[4:50:06] Voice 14: program report as presented to trust or amended to trust council for approval so that all requires

[4:50:11] Voice 14: to have a quick look at the um future work program uh let's assume everybody's read it

[4:50:19] Voice 14: does anybody have any comments or requests for changes you again trustee luckham

[4:50:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): yeah well every

[4:50:29] Trustee Luckham (probable): every once in a while, I like to say something. So I actually don't have any comments or remarks

[4:50:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): on the current work program. For your benefit, sir, and I'm not sure how that communication is

[4:50:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): rolling out, but we are planning a change to Trust Council agenda, which is grouping all the

[4:50:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): committee reports together. And so there'll be an opportunity for you to speak specifically to

[4:50:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): your work program and any other things in advance of any decisions associated with the budget.

[4:51:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): Director Frater might have something to add there. I'm kind of just winging it.

[4:51:06] Voice 14: Well, I can anticipate at Trust Council,

[4:51:11] Voice 14: because we're going to be talking about those guidelines and things,

[4:51:14] Voice 14: there'll be a certain amount of introduction talk required there. Director Frater?

[4:51:24] Voice 7: Thank you, Chair. I would recommend that you remove this from your work program,

[4:51:27] Voice 7: given that you've asked staff to not undertake the project and then i would leave it to your

[4:51:31] Voice 7: lead person as to whether you'd like that briefing as a work program item

[4:51:35] Voice 14: oh yeah okay let's do it

[4:51:39] Voice 14: um

[4:51:40] Voice 6: if i may this is not the work program that should be on screen this is the current work

[4:51:45] Voice 6: program so we've advanced through these initiatives the proposed there we go thank you

[4:51:52] Voice 6: and uh it it has been proposed with four items which is unusual typically there are three uh we

[4:51:58] Voice 6: we did that because of course public consultation was not yet determined as to whether or not that

[4:52:04] Voice 6: would advance and so if that comes off the work program we would still have three items to advance

[4:52:08] Voice 6: to trust council no issues there all

[4:52:13] Voice 14: right so is that what we want to do just i mean we voted it

[4:52:17] Voice 14: down so it doesn't really belong there does it so

[4:52:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): if you don't mind sir i'll move that item number

[4:52:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): Number two, be removed from the financial plan, proposed work plan.

[4:52:31] Voice 15: Do we have that?

[4:52:32] Voice 14: Does anybody object to that?

[4:52:34] Voice 14: I mean, given what we've just done, it seems to me that we can just proceed by consent on that one.

[4:52:38] Voice 14: Whoops. Trustee Evans?

[4:52:40] Voice 5: I just have a question.

[4:52:42] Voice 5: Seeing as though the engagement got shut down, should, even though we just unanimously passed prior that we were going to review, revise the survey,

[4:52:53] Voice 5: survey should then like i'm confused as to what the direction is of this group like do we we all

[4:53:01] Voice 5: wanted the survey to get revised but nobody wants it to move forward well

[4:53:07] Voice 14: actually three trustees

[4:53:07] Voice 14: wanted to move forward and four didn't so no

[4:53:11] Voice 5: no prior to that we had a unanimous decision to

[4:53:15] Voice 14: trustee evans i understand that's the point which is the thing's dead so we had a resolution but

[4:53:21] Voice 14: But, you know, after when we got down to that final resolution, it's just like, forget it.

[4:53:25] Voice 14: It's not happening.

[4:53:27] Voice 14: So my

[4:53:28] Voice 5: question is, then the prior resolution, is that also dead, too?

[4:53:36] Voice 14: I would think so.

[4:53:37] Voice 14: I certainly wouldn't want staff to spend the time revising a survey they're not going to use.

[4:53:43] Voice 5: So do we need to have another resolution to kill that resolution?

[4:53:46] Voice 14: Are we that dumb?

[4:53:48] Voice 14: Do we really need to do that?

[4:53:50] Voice 3: can

[4:53:51] Voice 6: i assist chair chair oh so direct director freighter um i saw her pop on screen best place

[4:53:58] Voice 6: if i as i understand it engagement uh has not been supported by this group to advance director

[4:54:04] Voice 6: freighter please nod if i'm correct yes the previous resolution was looking to the property

[4:54:09] Voice 6: tax notice insert director freighter are you nodding along no okay so i'm wrong there so i

[4:54:17] Voice 6: I would look to Director Frater for her guidance on this one.

[4:54:19] Voice 14: Director Frater?

[4:54:21] Voice 7: You do have a resolution asking staff to redo the survey.

[4:54:27] Voice 7: Because it is a resolution of the body,

[4:54:28] Voice 7: it will show on your follow-up action list until such time as you take it off.

[4:54:33] Voice 7: Given that you've asked us to come back with a briefing about further options,

[4:54:36] Voice 7: we could certainly append a reworked version of the survey to that

[4:54:39] Voice 7: for your consideration that could be used in early engagement.

[4:54:42] Voice 7: So in my view, there's no need to rescind it

[4:54:45] Voice 7: because I could use that direction to give you a sample of what early engagement could look like.

[4:54:50] Voice 14: Thank you for that. Now let's return to the business that Trustee Luckum raised,

[4:54:53] Voice 14: which is for the proposed work plan. He's suggesting item two be deleted.

[4:54:58] Voice 14: Do we have a seconder for that motion of his?

[4:55:03] Trustee Luckham (probable): I see Trustee Graham.

[4:55:06] Voice 14: Okay, Trustee Graham. I didn't see his hand come up, but okay, it's on the floor. Those in favor

[4:55:11] Voice 14: of the motion, please raise your hands. Please lower your hands. Anyone opposed, please raise

[4:55:22] Voice 14: raise your hands.

[4:55:23] Voice 13: Okay. That's done.

[4:55:27] Voice 14: Okay. 255. We're racing towards the finish line. Might even

[4:55:31] Voice 14: make it on time. Item 11. Our next scheduled meeting is October 16th. I don't think we need

[4:55:40] Voice 14: a resolution for that. That's already scheduled. We don't, as far as I'm aware, we don't need a

[4:55:47] Voice 14: closed meeting except I see Trustee Leckham, you have your hand up.

[4:55:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): Yeah, I think that by general

[4:55:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): consent we need to advance the work program to council as amended oh

[4:55:57] Voice 14: that's right thank you for

[4:55:58] Voice 14: that uh so moved unless unless somebody objects uh the work program will be taken as uh approved

[4:56:07] Voice 14: by consent for advancement to the trust council trustee evans seconds uh okay it's happening

[4:56:16] Voice 14: you know uh by consent uh item 12 does anybody have a belief that we need to close meeting

[4:56:25] Voice 14: No.

[4:56:28] Voice 14: That concludes the work for today.

[4:56:29] Voice 14: No horizon report required.

[4:56:31] Voice 14: And so we can now adjourn to the next meeting in October.

[4:56:35] Voice 14: Thank you, everybody.

[4:56:36] Voice 14: It's been a long day, but I was hoping we might be able to finish a little early, but

[4:56:42] Voice 14: apparently not.

[4:56:42] Voice 14: But at least we're up.

[4:56:44] Voice 10: We're early.

[4:56:44] Voice 10: Four minutes.

[4:56:45] Voice 10: We're

[4:56:45] Voice 14: four minutes early.

[4:56:46] Voice 14: So celebrate the success.

[4:56:48] Voice 14: Yeah, it's the more frequent thing, which is we run these things on and on.

[4:56:53] Voice 14: And we actually got a fair bit of work done today in terms of trying to set the agenda in terms of how we do our work going forward.

[4:57:02] Voice 14: And I think that's been helpful. So thank you, everybody. And especially. Thank you.