Islands Trust Council regular meeting, September 12, 2024

[0:00:00] Voice 14: We're going to start LTC meeting and so we're going to be recording and streaming and

[0:00:05] Voice 14: I'm going to get that started and I'll make some introductory remarks and then we'll go to the round table.

[0:00:19] Voice 14: Okay, so welcome everybody to a special LTC meeting of the Agro Island Local Trust Committee.

[0:00:26] Voice 14: day. Ostensibly this meeting here today's single topic is to discuss the violent compliance

[0:00:33] Voice 14: and enforcement policies for Magdalen. And really grateful to be here. My name is Peter

[0:00:39] Voice 14: Lachman, I'm the lecturer. I'm chair of the Atlas of Trust Committee here and it's a real

[0:00:46] Voice 14: pleasure and honor to be here. Absolutely want to acknowledge every day I wake up and

[0:00:51] Voice 14: acknowledge that I live in Coastal Territory, particularly here. The meeting today is in

[0:00:55] Voice 14: the name of territory and it's important to recognize that historic um and current um

[0:01:04] Voice 14: rights title history of the people that have lived here since time immemorial and um so let's

[0:01:13] Voice 14: have them just do a round of introductions and uh go quickly through the table here

[0:01:17] Voice 14: and then we'll just go around the table um

[0:01:24] Voice 14: Hello,

[0:01:24] Trustee Elliott: I'm Toby Elliott. I've been here, I mean, for the last month and a quarter, thank

[0:01:29] Trustee Elliott: you. And thank you all. I am also a vice chair and serving in other LTCs. So I've been having

[0:01:39] Trustee Elliott: a full meal deal of bylaw enforcement policy for the last couple of weeks. So I'm really

[0:01:46] Trustee Elliott: glad that we're here to look through this together good

[0:01:50] Voice 7: morning

[0:01:52] Trustee Elliott: everyone i'm susan yates uh gabrielle

[0:01:55] Trustee Elliott: along with my two compatriots and i'm very happy to be working and living in the name of

[0:02:09] Voice 14: lisa miller i've been taking technology

[0:02:13] Voice 14: My name is

[0:02:15] Voice 11: Warren Dingman. I'm the Manager of Appliance Enforcement for Island Trust.

[0:02:19] Voice 11: That includes all the local trust areas. I'm included within the Island Trust Confederation.

[0:02:27] Voice 3: I'm Mike Bonneville, one of the members of MSMP. I'm a full-time resident on Mudge and

[0:02:32] Voice 3: I run the parking.

[0:02:36] Voice 14: My name is Nigel Stoodley. I live in Vancouver and also on Mudge. I'm

[0:02:42] Voice 14: been on function now for nearly 10 years uh

[0:02:46] Voice 2: my name is scott fleming i'm a full-time resident

[0:02:50] Voice 2: of my child for the last 30 years i've been enjoying my childhood for over 55 years with

[0:02:55] Voice 2: my family uh i'm a member of micah i'm also the president of another community association on much

[0:03:02] Voice 2: called citizen society and we're responsible for writing our fire protection and emergency

[0:03:08] Voice 2: emergency services equipment on much?

[0:03:12] Voice 6: Sorry for my lateness.

[0:03:14] Voice 6: Chad Giesbrecht, I'm the guy with the excavator over there

[0:03:19] Voice 6: and I worked for the forest service in summer

[0:03:23] Voice 6: as fire warden on the Gulf Islands.

[0:03:25] Voice 6: I'm heavily involved with MICS like Scott.

[0:03:30] Voice 6: I'm a director on the board with MIC or MICA as well,

[0:03:36] Voice 6: of course.

[0:03:36] Voice 6: And I don't know if you do other little odds and sods all over the aisle been there for I guess 21 years

[0:04:09] Voice 7: and uh have a background in governance um sit on many many um boards happy to be here

[0:04:21] Voice 12: i'm john mccullough i've been a property owner on budge since 1992 so 32 years

[0:04:33] I am a proud member

[0:04:35] Voice 12: of MICA, and my background is as a lawyer.

[0:04:43] Voice 12: I'm Rich Brooks.

[0:04:45] Voice 5: I'm the chair of MICA. I've been on Mudge Island for some three to five years, and then most recently over the last three years, full time.

[0:04:58] Voice 5: So, I'm pretty familiar with the island and the dynamics of the island and the Islands

[0:05:06] Voice 5: Trust issues, the background in planning and zoning by-law related issues through my career

[0:05:17] Voice 5: in the past.

[0:05:19] Voice 5: So it seemed like a good fit to participate in the program and again, thank you for hosting

[0:05:26] Voice 5: this meeting and giving us an opportunity to try and work through the issues that were

[0:05:34] Voice 5: faced with.

[0:05:35] Voice 14: Thank you, Rick.

[0:05:37] Voice 14: Well, thank you, everybody.

[0:05:38] Voice 14: It's really terrific to have this depth and richness of information and experience and

[0:05:47] Voice 14: time on

[0:05:48] Voice 14: my job and also on the trusting side here with the Adams Trust.

[0:05:53] Voice 14: um and thank you for being with us today and helping us out with this discussion so i'm just

[0:06:01] going to start off by uh calling the meeting to order and we have an agenda with a single

[0:06:06] Voice 14: business item on it and i don't anticipate we would be adding anything because uh the meeting

[0:06:12] Voice 14: agenda is a notification to the public what we're going to be discussing and and to ensure that the

[0:06:17] Voice 14: public's interests are um respected and so if there is nothing else to add to the agenda then

[0:06:23] Voice 14: not just adopt the agenda as presented is that okay with the ltc here okay so that's great so

[0:06:30] Voice 14: just going to move straight through to the single business item but i just want to make a little

[0:06:34] Voice 14: preamble um because for me it's important to understand the process and set the expectations

[0:06:40] Voice 14: both now and in the future as well as the expectations and understanding the process

[0:06:46] Voice 14: just with the trustees and staff.

[0:06:49] Voice 14: And I noted that, well, this is a discussion at this point.

[0:06:56] Voice 14: And the reason that we decided to do this special meeting,

[0:07:00] Voice 14: which is sort of out of the ordinary for us

[0:07:02] Voice 14: to embark on this journey,

[0:07:05] Voice 14: but we have heard clearly, loud and clear,

[0:07:07] Voice 14: that there are issues and concerns with bylaw enforcement

[0:07:10] Voice 14: and bylaws respecting my job and your anticipated

[0:07:15] Voice 14: and continuous uses on the island and enforcement itself and so we want to hear from you what those

[0:07:22] Voice 14: issues are and you sort of said that um let's talk about the issues and so in i think rich in

[0:07:28] Voice 14: your message you had indicated as you're curious about that because i want to be sure that our

[0:07:34] Voice 14: expectations and reflect great text you said that we are going to collaborate and develop

[0:07:38] Voice 14: policy and bylaws well we're not going to be writing bylaws today and rolling up our sleeves

[0:07:43] Voice 14: and getting into the deep and dirty of it.

[0:07:47] Voice 14: That will come, and we will continue.

[0:07:49] Voice 14: I can say on behalf of the committee,

[0:07:51] Voice 14: we will continue to collaborate

[0:07:53] Voice 14: and have these conversations with you

[0:07:55] Voice 14: because it's important to you that the OCP,

[0:07:59] Voice 14: and it's far-flung, right?

[0:08:02] Voice 14: The OCP is the vision of the community.

[0:08:04] Voice 14: This was just said in the framework.

[0:08:05] Voice 14: OCP is the vision of the community.

[0:08:07] Voice 14: The bylaws provide regulatory mechanisms

[0:08:11] Voice 14: mechanisms to support the vision of the community by law enforcement supports the adherence

[0:08:17] Voice 14: to the bylaws and so we just need to there's a problem with the streaming is

[0:08:24] Trustee Elliott: there a problem

[0:08:25] Trustee Elliott: yeah

[0:08:25] Voice 14: okay

[0:08:26] Trustee Elliott: okay

[0:08:27] Voice 6: i got people asking me if

[0:08:29] Voice 6: they're having trouble logging in but yeah it's not

[0:08:32] Trustee Elliott: streaming yet we're working on it

[0:08:34] Voice 14: we're doing the best we can we have working out of the

[0:08:36] Voice 14: respect for time and stuff. But sure, as soon as we get and the reporting will be available

[0:08:41] Voice 14: after the fact. So that is independent of the screening process.

[0:08:46] Voice 14: Where was I? OCP, OUP, enforcement. And so if you don't like the enforcement, previous

[0:08:54] Voice 14: bylaw manager used to say to both of them, if you don't like enforcement, change the

[0:08:57] Voice 14: bylaws. So let's discuss what the issues are. That's an expectation for me anyway. And I

[0:09:05] Voice 14: that will provide the opportunity to the trustees to say something in addition to whatever it is that I'm saying.

[0:09:10] Voice 14: Let's discuss this, go through what the issues are so that ideally Warren fully understands

[0:09:16] Voice 14: and that we'll have a bit of dialogue back and forth for sure to be curious

[0:09:21] Voice 14: and drill into the rationale for the bylaws, the concerns about the issues,

[0:09:26] Voice 14: so that we can come away from this meeting today with an understanding.

[0:09:38] Voice 14: yeah um okay warren will go away with the conversation today he's going to come back

[0:09:45] Voice 14: to us with recommendations and we might like to advise you to go to draft or something like this

[0:09:52] Voice 14: but the process is overseen and managed by our professional staff support that are familiar with

[0:09:58] Voice 14: lead the leaves and the process of government to create slavons so um and we're just going to

[0:10:06] Voice 14: listen to you for the most part i think but trust you do you have anything to add there

[0:10:12] Trustee Elliott: um sure uh it's been a real learning curve for me for sure um new to the audience trust

[0:10:19] Trustee Elliott: is of only two years so getting getting up to speed on not only which bodies are responsible

[0:10:31] Trustee Elliott: for which type of bylaws and policies and then how those are created and so understanding

[0:10:38] Trustee Elliott: what got us to here and then what is the best way forward and then how can we create a new

[0:10:48] Trustee Elliott: framework of working together that's what I'm really curious about

[0:10:51] Trustee Elliott: But it is challenging because to be decision makers, we can take in all kinds of input,

[0:11:01] Trustee Elliott: but ultimately the decision has to be with your elected officials who direct that to do this.

[0:11:07] Trustee Elliott: So there's only so much we can do.

[0:11:11] Trustee Elliott: And I don't want to overpromise that we will endlessly revise and redempt this.

[0:11:17] Trustee Elliott: Just another piece of context.

[0:11:18] Trustee Elliott: I have asked for the public hearing documents from 2018 when the last time I joined the

[0:11:27] Trustee Elliott: LEB was revised and so they are in our offices and there's some digital files as well.

[0:11:35] Trustee Elliott: So I am trying to understand how that current version of our LEB was drafted and if there

[0:11:45] Trustee Elliott: was a disconnect between what the community was saying and then what was ultimately drafted. So

[0:11:50] Trustee Elliott: I think that's a separate piece of work. We're just here to look at specifically the draft by

[0:11:57] Trustee Elliott: law enforcement compliance and enforcement policy and specifically how it applies to much.

[0:12:01] Trustee Elliott: But I'm really open to hearing your input and I'm really thankful that you've formed a group

[0:12:09] Trustee Elliott: and you're a very diverse group and I want to recognize that you don't all think the same

[0:12:15] Trustee Elliott: on everything, and I think that's a huge asset that I want to recognize and represent Mudge Island in as

[0:12:23] Trustee Elliott: cohesively a way as possible. So I'm really looking forward to doing this work, and thank you all for being here.

[0:12:31] Trustee Elliott: Just a quick comment, and then a question for Manager Dingman.

[0:12:37] Trustee Elliott: I was very grateful, actually, that you asked for those public hearing documents, and our planner, Stephen Powell, brought them,

[0:12:42] Trustee Elliott: and I read through every single page and I actually printed and I often do because it's

[0:12:49] Trustee Elliott: easier for me to work from print copies I printed all the staff reports relating to those documents

[0:12:55] Trustee Elliott: from December 14, 2017 to when that targeted land use bylaw amendment was finished in 2018

[0:13:06] Trustee Elliott: actually, yeah, 2018. So that was very helpful and very useful, reading over Teresa Ritterman's,

[0:13:15] Trustee Elliott: Planner Ritterman's reports, and Planner Sonia Zupanet's comments to find out, you know,

[0:13:24] Trustee Elliott: what the original concerns were and what they were dealt with. And that helped me a lot. So

[0:13:31] Trustee Elliott: So I was grateful.

[0:13:32] Trustee Elliott: And it looked like there was lots of participation

[0:13:34] Trustee Elliott: from Mudge Island, who you hadn't even seen at that time.

[0:13:39] Trustee Elliott: And it looked like they had a pretty active agency.

[0:13:42] Trustee Elliott: That was great.

[0:13:43] Trustee Elliott: So I have a question for Manager King.

[0:13:46] Trustee Elliott: And how will the work that we do with Mudge Island,

[0:13:50] Trustee Elliott: how will that fit into the overall bylaw enforcement issues

[0:13:56] Trustee Elliott: that you're working on for council?

[0:13:59] Voice 14: So can I just defer that question for a minute and so we can get into it because I want you to actually do a context and you can say that.

[0:14:08] Voice 14: We just want to reach out to you folks here now to say, are we okay to proceed with the discussion? Do we understand what we're going through or what the expectations are today?

[0:14:17] Voice 14: Yeah, maybe before we get

[0:14:19] Voice 5: into it, we'd like to just touch on a couple of things.

[0:14:22] Voice 5: you know first you know here what you had indicated was you know there's

[0:14:27] Voice 5: different aspects as the OCP the bylaws and then of course the policies and it

[0:14:34] Voice 5: has been a learning curve for the community for sure they and their

[0:14:39] Voice 5: understanding of how it all integrates with each part for the most part the

[0:14:45] Voice 5: MICA group understands the levels of priority and how it all fits together. We're, you know,

[0:14:53] Voice 5: pretty up to speed on that. And we understand that the goal, you know, one of our goals here today,

[0:15:00] Voice 5: and we'll talk about that in a minute, is to work primarily on the document, the draft policy.

[0:15:07] Voice 5: And, you know, that's going to take the lion's share immediately, I suspect, going through line

[0:15:12] Voice 5: line by line but there's probably some housekeeping discussion you know before we get into it um but

[0:15:19] Voice 5: um i guess you know from in order to be productive in the meeting i think we should all try to get a

[0:15:28] Voice 5: bit of an understanding what we all expect to achieve at this meeting yeah if our goals are

[0:15:32] Voice 5: different um then that's going to be hard to achieve you know a good working situation to

[0:15:42] Voice 5: push through the document so if our goals are are different um then we should try and figure

[0:15:50] Voice 5: out where the differences are um and and go from there so from our perspective from the group's

[0:15:57] Voice 5: perspective we three see three stakeholders in this process one is the much community represented

[0:16:04] Voice 5: by micah you know what are our goals the second certainly is the trust beyond the trust and the

[0:16:10] Voice 5: trustee and then the third of course is the staff perspectives now if they don't all align um we

[0:16:17] Voice 5: we we're going to have some challenges so what we should try to understand is you know are they

[0:16:25] Voice 5: aligned or are they not and um so you know from our perspective um we'd like to hear what what you

[0:16:35] Voice 5: would expect to see out of this meeting and then from warren's perspective what he would like to

[0:16:43] Voice 5: take away from the meeting so we have an understanding of our goals and now we can

[0:16:48] Voice 5: constructively work through that the document i don't know if that is the only idea or what do

[0:16:54] Voice 5: you think what you know what are what are the trustees goals of today's

[0:17:02] Voice 14: meeting um yeah i'm

[0:17:07] Voice 14: going to defer to the local trustees and i can certainly chime in but i also want to defer to

[0:17:14] Voice 14: warren as the subject matter expert here and what he needs to get gathered from this meeting in

[0:17:21] Voice 14: order to advance his work

[0:17:23] Trustee Elliott: over to you

[0:17:24] Trustee Elliott: um to me there there has been a dialogue of sorts um and

[0:17:33] Trustee Elliott: And now to establish understanding, okay, so what are the different aspects that we're talking about?

[0:17:39] Trustee Elliott: Get through some of the confusion of, you know, what are the different pieces that we can give input on?

[0:17:46] Trustee Elliott: And now we want to constructively hear with clarity Micah's perspective on this draft policy.

[0:17:57] Trustee Elliott: That is the extent of what we're talking about today, my expectation.

[0:18:00] Trustee Elliott: We're not talking about reviving the LUV, I think there's been a lot of talk about that,

[0:18:06] Trustee Elliott: but that is a subsequent later project, right.

[0:18:09] Trustee Elliott: So we're just talking about this policy, which was brought forward by staff in June.

[0:18:16] Trustee Elliott: And then, but it's also to establish some clarity.

[0:18:21] Trustee Elliott: And so in my conversations with New Bridge, which I think needs to be brought forward

[0:18:28] Trustee Elliott: in a public meeting.

[0:18:29] Trustee Elliott: so this is why we have this meeting um some of micah's um suggested amendments to the policy

[0:18:38] Trustee Elliott: would would be carried under trust council health policies and so that's where we don't want any

[0:18:45] Trustee Elliott: confusion we want to say okay what input can we give so that your expectations are um you see

[0:18:53] Trustee Elliott: your input either received or not in this policy but then if there's other pieces that you've

[0:18:59] Trustee Elliott: contributed input to that are going to go to the trust council health policy that input goes to the

[0:19:04] Trustee Elliott: appropriate place and we're trying to direct those um suggested amendments so i think there's only a

[0:19:10] Trustee Elliott: few pieces in here that um you know i heard from staff well that's not something you can change

[0:19:16] Trustee Elliott: address at the ltc policy level that's a trust council health policy and that is a other project

[0:19:21] Trustee Elliott: And so that's what I just want to play. What are we here to change? We're here to, we are listening to your input and we can receive it and then that goes to one. It's not going to be, we're going to agree on a draft and say this is the final thing today because there are other considerations that staff need to take into account.

[0:19:46] Trustee Elliott: count and then the ltc ultimately makes the decision on yes that draft goes into final form

[0:19:52] Trustee Elliott: i think it should be a living document and if there are problems with it you know in six months

[0:19:58] Trustee Elliott: we continuously can receive input and that's what you can amend policy it's harder to change bylaws

[0:20:05] Trustee Elliott: but we can definitely keep amending policy but this is to get clarity on what can we change at

[0:20:12] Trustee Elliott: the LTC level, hear that information, have it go to staff, we'll then bring back the report

[0:20:19] Trustee Elliott: in October that we can make decisions. That's my expectation today.

[0:20:26] Trustee Elliott: Well my expectation is to see if we can talk about some of the concerns that were brought up

[0:20:36] Trustee Elliott: at the July 16th meeting on Ledge Island and then subsequently they were put into writing with the

[0:20:47] Trustee Elliott: draft bylaw compliance and enforcement report. I as soon as I read that I thought well this seems

[0:20:56] Trustee Elliott: reasonable and this seems doable and but I also realized that I don't think this I don't think

[0:21:02] Trustee Elliott: we can do this we can do that so maybe we'll get to talking about those today and we can explain

[0:21:09] Trustee Elliott: why we don't think it's appropriate why we do um and i'm also looking for some clarity as i'm sure

[0:21:16] Trustee Elliott: all of us are on the um the term must versus may when it comes to bylaw investigation because

[0:21:25] Trustee Elliott: Because my own personal view is that all complaints should be investigated

[0:21:32] Trustee Elliott: unless they have been deemed frivolous or vexatious.

[0:21:35] Trustee Elliott: And that, to me, would be where the main account is.

[0:21:38] Trustee Elliott: But I may be completely wrong on that.

[0:21:41] Trustee Elliott: So I'm looking for clarity.

[0:21:44] Voice 14: Thank you.

[0:21:46] Voice 14: Okay.

[0:21:48] Voice 14: I've said more than enough today already.

[0:21:51] Voice 14: I just have to say, I don't think we have the time or ability,

[0:21:57] Voice 14: and I certainly don't want to go through this line by line today.

[0:22:02] Voice 14: You have provided us your suggested edits on the document,

[0:22:08] Voice 14: and that's very much appreciated.

[0:22:09] Voice 14: It's a significant amount of work, and staff have seen that,

[0:22:14] Voice 14: and we have yet to actually determine how to incorporate those comments at this time.

[0:22:18] Voice 14: So going through this document again line by line wouldn't necessarily serve the purpose

[0:22:24] Voice 14: because we haven't had a chance to assume some of the things that you suggested

[0:22:29] Voice 14: and not included the things that are not necessarily in alignment with the broader policy.

[0:22:40] Voice 14: So I think for me, it's about really focusing on what are the issues,

[0:22:44] Voice 14: what are the highlights in here in order to provide more on the opportunity to continue to develop this work

[0:22:51] Voice 14: and bring it to us, where potentially somewhere down the road

[0:22:54] Voice 14: we would have a lot of that, I think.

[0:22:56] Voice 14: But we're still in the very early stages.

[0:22:58] Voice 14: And I think, for me, it was really important that we have this discussion.

[0:23:02] Voice 14: And so I think it's a discussion.

[0:23:04] Voice 14: And so with that, I would like Warren to sort of kick us off

[0:23:08] Voice 14: as the lead on this, his area of expertise,

[0:23:12] Voice 14: and what process and expectations he would expect

[0:23:16] Voice 14: and what information we would like to have.

[0:23:18] Voice 14: but let's I think the key here is let's be curious let's drill into some of the

[0:23:24] Voice 14: where the issues are and so that we have an understanding of how wide the scope

[0:23:30] Voice 14: is of the conversation changes so is that all right can we move to more and

[0:23:35] Voice 14: yeah the

[0:23:35] Voice 14: question that Susan started is

[0:23:38] Voice 6: are we online yet I'll get people keep

[0:23:40] Voice 6: asking if it's happening no

[0:23:42] Voice 14: we've got it

[0:23:43] Voice 6: sounds like something

[0:23:44] Voice 6: It just sounds like we're going to have a really good conversation, and people are asking.

[0:23:52] Voice 14: We are

[0:23:52] Voice 6: going to have a

[0:23:53] Voice 14: really good conversation.

[0:23:54] Voice 14: It is being recorded, and it will be available.

[0:23:57] Voice 14: Despite the fact that at the present moment, there's something wrong with the Internet connectivity.

[0:24:02] Voice 14: But we're still trying, I'll tell you.

[0:24:04] Voice 14: Yeah, we're working on it in the background.

[0:24:07] Voice 14: But I don't want to disrupt the meeting, because we've got other things to do than sit around and wait.

[0:24:14] Voice 14: Yeah. And, you know, the other thing is that the meeting was scheduled to go to 1.30.

[0:24:18] Voice 14: I don't anticipate, honestly, us spending that much time on it, but if we need to, then we will.

[0:24:23] Voice 14: But I

[0:24:24] Trustee Elliott: think I'm glad.

[0:24:25] Voice 14: Yeah, me too.

[0:24:26] Voice 14: And so but let's be succinct in our remarks.

[0:24:31] Voice 14: And actually, before I go any further at all, let's remember that we're all in this together.

[0:24:38] Voice 14: And let's be kind and respectful.

[0:24:41] Voice 14: Our staff provide professional advice, which absolutely we can reject and go on some other course if that's what we want. However, we have to respect that advice and the way it's positioned.

[0:24:53] Voice 14: Staff do not have a vested interest in this, other than doing professional work. So let's just be kind and respectful. I just want to say that. Warren?

[0:25:04] Voice 14: So

[0:25:04] Voice 11: thanks, Chair. So my goal here today is to receive all the input. And in the end, I've got to go through the input from the Trust Committee, your association and any other public input that's going to come forward.

[0:25:23] We're going to do a webinar

[0:25:24] Voice 11: for Gabriel Island.

[0:25:27] Voice 11: My insurance residents will be able to take part in that as well

[0:25:30] Voice 11: so that they can have a chance to ask questions

[0:25:32] Voice 11: and look at the whole policy for Gabriel Island.

[0:25:37] Voice 11: And then what I need to do is after I get all those inputs,

[0:25:40] Voice 11: all that information, is write up a staff report

[0:25:44] Voice 11: that in the end will provide the advice to the local trust committee.

[0:25:49] I've got to look at the current best practices for bylaw enforcement.

[0:25:52] with the ombudsperson's recommendations

[0:25:55] Voice 11: for bylaw enforcement and current trust council policies

[0:25:59] Voice 11: which is the broad trust white document which this committee can't change staff can change

[0:26:06] Voice 11: we can make recommendations and there's a process underway right now for trust council to review

[0:26:13] Voice 11: their bylaw compliance and enforcement policies they will continue to do that work

[0:26:19] Voice 11: It will take six months, maybe another year, possibly, for all of the reports to go through

[0:26:26] Voice 11: just Trust Council and how they want to write their Trust Council policies, which will define

[0:26:31] Voice 11: the roles of staff and trustees and local trust committees.

[0:26:37] Voice 11: So for the Trust Council, they do give direction in their Trust Council policies and that's

[0:26:46] Voice 11: available online it's document 551 um it says okay trustees and ltcs here's your role here's

[0:26:54] what you can do and in fact the the policy here with draft that

[0:26:59] Voice 11: i've written up for all the lpcs

[0:27:01] Voice 11: to consider this lpc is based on what that document currently says that's what it's all

[0:27:09] So

[0:27:10] Voice 11: it says LTCs can do A, B, and C.

[0:27:14] Voice 11: Okay, so that's how the document is drafted.

[0:27:16] Voice 11: That's the authority that the trust counsel is saying,

[0:27:19] you're going to make decisions on these issues, closing files, opening files,

[0:27:24] priorities, how to take legal action.

[0:27:28] All that has to be taken into consideration when

[0:27:31] Voice 11: writing up the policy document.

[0:27:33] Voice 11: The policy document for each LTC, as Trustee Elliott referenced, it should be a living document, and essentially it is.

[0:27:43] Voice 11: It's not a bylaw. It can be amended at any time as need requires, when different issues come up.

[0:27:52] Voice 11: For Gabriola, we have three land use bylaws to deal with.

[0:28:00] Voice 11: So there's DeCoursey, Mudge, and Gabriel Island land use by-law.

[0:28:04] Voice 11: And what the local trust committee can do is adopt a policy for each land use by-law.

[0:28:10] Voice 11: They can adopt a policy for, as a whole, here's how we're going to deal with enforcement in all three land use by-laws.

[0:28:18] Voice 11: And we've already done a section, okay, here's some options for Mudge.

[0:28:22] Voice 11: We can do options for DeCoursey if need be.

[0:28:26] Voice 11: and ultimately, with all the input from the public and MICA,

[0:28:31] the report going to the LTC will have all their options.

[0:28:35] Here's what you can do.

[0:28:37] And that report will say, okay, here's the suggestions

[0:28:41] Voice 11: from MICA.

[0:28:42] Voice 11: And the comments will go into the report.

[0:28:45] Voice 11: This is best practice.

[0:28:47] Voice 11: This is what Trust Council says you can do.

[0:28:49] Voice 11: These are the requests from MICA.

[0:28:51] Voice 11: Here's all your options.

[0:28:53] Voice 11: here's the advice and then it'll be up to the local press committee to say okay that's good

[0:28:58] Voice 11: or we don't think we can work with that it's it's entirely their decision and how they want to

[0:29:03] Voice 11: proceed with any type of enforcement or deferring enforcement and how they want to handle the

[0:29:09] Voice 11: enforcement of what in the end are their violence

[0:29:14] Voice 9: that's

[0:29:18] Voice 11: the basics of it a little bit long-winded

[0:29:20] Voice 11: but

[0:29:21] Voice 14: it's basically that's fine you know why don't we just start off and and i'll turn to the chair

[0:29:26] Voice 14: as the lead on the micah board that's true um you know not necessarily line by line but maybe

[0:29:33] Voice 14: section by section yeah um to address the issues and let's drill into so that we understand what

[0:29:40] Voice 14: they are yeah

[0:29:40] Voice 5: i think uh before we get into that you know our you know we've heard your goals yeah

[0:29:46] Voice 5: And we understand, you know, our goals may be slightly different, but our biggest goal is to collaborate, like constructively collaborate.

[0:30:00] Voice 5: Where are the problems?

[0:30:01] Voice 5: Not necessarily in the document itself, but what can you do?

[0:30:06] Voice 5: What can you do?

[0:30:07] Voice 5: Where are the problems that we're going to have to be patient on

[0:30:11] Voice 5: and spend more time on?

[0:30:14] Voice 5: How are we going to overcome those problems?

[0:30:16] Voice 5: So the collaboration is number one here.

[0:30:19] Voice 5: It's the highest priority for us.

[0:30:22] Voice 5: Number two is to go through the document

[0:30:25] Voice 5: and hopefully figure out where the problems are

[0:30:29] Voice 5: are set those aside perhaps and uh and then maybe work through and then maybe we can find a

[0:30:37] Voice 5: consensus of hey with a little bit of tweaking here and there we we might be closer than what

[0:30:43] Voice 5: we think in the in this document so i think that's our our goal is is that

[0:30:49] Voice 12: correct no absolutely and

[0:30:51] Voice 12: i would say that we're a little bit more sanguine than you are sure but i mean we think that um

[0:30:58] Voice 12: we didn't change much and we intentionally took a very light pin to it and tried to focus on the

[0:31:07] things that are important. And I think that we can get a long way in this meeting and that we

[0:31:14] won't be giving Warren a whole lot to go away and work on.

[0:31:19] Voice 12: You know, I suspect that there may be

[0:31:22] Voice 12: some things there's work there's work that needs to be done but i mean our whole

[0:31:27] Voice 12: our whole issue that's come from these rash of complaints has just revealed that there's

[0:31:37] a bit of a hole in the system and it makes every island and every local trust committee

[0:31:46] be, you know, open to the same kind of action, which is that

[0:31:54] Voice 12: people who aren't adversely

[0:31:56] Voice 12: impacted by bylaw violations can make complaints because they want to.

[0:32:06] Voice 12: And that's the essence of the problem that we're trying to solve, first of all.

[0:32:13] Voice 12: and I totally agree we're not going to get into whether this file is right or this file is wrong

[0:32:19] Voice 12: we're just talking about enforcement policy and let me finish by saying we're incredibly grateful

[0:32:26] to all of you and to manage your team and for just taking the time to meet with us

[0:32:32] we realize that you're all busy and we really really appreciate you listening

[0:32:41] and

[0:32:41] Voice 12: taking the time to hear us.

[0:32:44] Voice 15: Yeah.

[0:32:47] Voice 15: I just want to say

[0:32:49] Voice 14: in response to you that

[0:32:51] Voice 14: we've learned something

[0:32:53] Voice 14: else as a whole.

[0:32:56] Voice 14: And in

[0:32:57] Voice 14: the 50 years of the Atlas Trust, this hasn't

[0:33:00] Voice 14: happened at this magnitude

[0:33:01] Voice 14: in the past. Certainly there have

[0:33:03] Voice 14: been much more issues.

[0:33:05] Voice 14: But we've learned that, and I think we too

[0:33:08] Voice 14: want to fill those holes.

[0:33:09] Voice 14: And by and large,

[0:33:10] Voice 14: we know who the players are.

[0:33:14] Voice 14: and so you know there's some of that to take into account so um let's move on collaboration

[0:33:19] Voice 14: and consensus is absolutely what we want to do and let's collaborate towards consensus and just

[0:33:26] Voice 14: my notion of consensus and not everybody would agree with it but i'll just say that my notion

[0:33:31] Voice 14: of consensus is is come to agreement on the things that we can agree upon and then just and advance

[0:33:36] Voice 14: those and then decide that there's more conversation necessary on the ones that we're

[0:33:40] Voice 14: not close enough to happen and that's a good place to go yeah and so yeah let's move on with it so

[0:33:50] Voice 14: yeah

[0:33:50] Voice 5: i think that's what we've learned as a group as well not everyone's opinion is the right one

[0:33:57] Voice 5: and through discussion and collaboration you know you'll you'll get to that point where

[0:34:03] Voice 5: there's a balance yeah and

[0:34:05] Voice 5: and i i hope you know that's that's that's where we're going

[0:34:08] Voice 5: one of the you know you go well why are we here and you know aside from the fact that there's been

[0:34:16] Voice 5: complaints received but those are really more founded in in the problem themselves of maybe

[0:34:23] Voice 5: the bylaws and i know we're not we can't reach that far at this point but there are some bylaws

[0:34:31] Voice 5: us that are problematic with the island and and that's that's that's the tough nut that we're

[0:34:39] Voice 5: gonna you know that that will take time and you know i know we've been earmarked to look at that

[0:34:45] Voice 5: you know with with budget and time in the future but you know i think that the devil is is

[0:34:51] Voice 5: is a lot in that and the problem is is there but you know we'll come to to to understand that later

[0:35:00] Voice 5: here. Just quickly before we dive into it, what we,

[0:35:05] Voice 14: sorry, can I ask one question? Oh, sure. So

[0:35:09] Voice 14: you gave a lot of advice. What were your goals? Could you sort of summarize that for us?

[0:35:15] Voice 14: Like you gave us a lot of education about the trust, but

[0:35:18] Voice 11: what are your goals?

[0:35:20] Voice 11: I need to create a staff report that will present options for the local trust committee,

[0:35:25] Voice 11: how they wish to proceed with bylaw compliance and enforcement gabriela and much and what they

[0:35:32] Voice 11: here here's your option here's input from all parties and you're the decision they're the

[0:35:38] Voice 14: decision makers that have to make the final decision thank you you know i just want to

[0:35:42] Voice 14: address what you've touched on an important point is vital enforcement and it's bylaws

[0:35:45] Voice 14: and so in that consensus thing the consensus may be this actually has to be fixed in the bylaw and

[0:35:52] Voice 14: then that becomes a different conversation yes and and staff may very well come to us and say

[0:35:56] Voice 14: you know this pilot needs to be changed so let's just go in that with that open sure thing sure

[0:36:05] Voice 14: just just

[0:36:06] Voice 5: a little bit uh to get a sense of things um through freedom of information requests

[0:36:14] Voice 5: um we've started and answered just general discussion with the community

[0:36:18] Voice 5: These are the lots that have been identified with complaints against them in 2024.

[0:36:30] Voice 5: There's approximately 53. So it's quite a substantial impact on the island.

[0:36:36] Voice 5: 53 out of what, 100?

[0:36:38] Voice 5: Roughly 310 lots.

[0:36:41] Voice 5: Way short.

[0:36:43] Voice 5: It's a pretty high, so we just want to make sure you get a feel for how significant it is.

[0:36:51] Voice 14: I think we know how big it is.

[0:36:53] Voice 14: Okay.

[0:36:54] Voice 14: It's not yet too lofty.

[0:36:56] Voice 14: No, no, no.

[0:36:57] Voice 14: It's high level.

[0:36:58] Voice 5: Absolutely.

[0:36:59] Voice 5: So I guess, unless anybody else has anything to say before we dive into the details.

[0:37:06] Voice 14: else you said you've got that research on 2017 2018. is that something that you shared with us

[0:37:14] Voice 14: well

[0:37:14] Trustee Elliott: it's all of the staff reports that came out of your abc meetings and the local trust

[0:37:20] Trustee Elliott: committee meetings when you did your last targeted land use five one

[0:37:23] Voice 13: yeah

[0:37:25] Voice 13: put it in that area.

[0:37:26] Trustee Elliott: Yeah, that would

[0:37:27] Voice 13: be good for all of you

[0:37:28] Voice 13: to get copies of those. Oh, yes,

[0:37:30] Voice 13: we will probably get a

[0:37:31] Voice 13: correct staff. Yeah,

[0:37:32] Trustee Elliott: the legislative clerk, we can make

[0:37:37] Trustee Elliott: appointments with her, but she has to be present with a member

[0:37:41] Trustee Elliott: of the public is going to go through public hearing

[0:37:44] Trustee Elliott: documents. So really, it's about timing. And what I was going to

[0:37:47] Trustee Elliott: recommend is Micah have a representative, you can ask for

[0:37:50] Trustee Elliott: copies to be made. But I think there's a lot of them that are

[0:37:53] Trustee Elliott: digital and so she may be able to give you a zip drive with all of the staff reports it may not

[0:38:01] Trustee Elliott: have everything but the public hearing document is has been pulled and it's in physical form at

[0:38:06] Trustee Elliott: our island stress office but you do need to make an appointment and she needs to have time so that

[0:38:11] Trustee Elliott: somebody can sit there and go through it so that's the process for that and wanting to update you

[0:38:17] Trustee Elliott: today i

[0:38:18] Voice 5: think we're all cognizant of time impacts and and you know what i've conveyed to the group

[0:38:26] Voice 5: is that there are things that are nice to have and there are things that we need to have and

[0:38:32] Voice 5: so we want to be very careful not to draw on the resources you know

[0:38:36] Trustee Elliott: they're public resources right

[0:38:39] Trustee Elliott: it's if they're they're housed in a physical location so it took time to bring them from

[0:38:43] Trustee Elliott: the warehouse in Victoria here that's all it's but this is absolutely a right to access public

[0:38:48] Trustee Elliott: hearing house that's what they're there for a very long time well

[0:38:54] Voice 14: there is a cost associated

[0:38:57] Voice 14: and you know I would just say and warn help me out here we can't we don't need to dwell on the past

[0:39:05] Voice 14: we're here today and the problems are here today and let's focus on today in the future yeah

[0:39:11] Voice 14: Because whatever happened in the past

[0:39:13] Voice 14: happened in the past, but people that are no longer

[0:39:15] Voice 14: sitting at this table. I agree.

[0:39:17] Voice 5: You know, I think another

[0:39:18] Voice 5: goal of this meeting is to get to

[0:39:21] Voice 5: the end as economically as possible.

[0:39:23] Voice 5: Absolutely.

[0:39:24] Voice 5: You know, and not from a

[0:39:27] Voice 14: financial perspective, but from a

[0:39:29] Voice 14: time perspective. Well, you're all

[0:39:31] Voice 14: volunteers, and I would appreciate

[0:39:33] Voice 14: that.

[0:39:33] Voice 5: Yeah, so, you know,

[0:39:35] Voice 5: that really is a goal.

[0:39:38] Voice 5: So,

[0:39:40] Trustee Elliott: So I just had a couple of comments.

[0:39:42] Trustee Elliott: Mike, when you were asking about these documents that I have here

[0:39:46] Trustee Elliott: that I poured over, they're just the staff reports that go from 2017 to,

[0:39:51] Trustee Elliott: I guess it was early 2019 when the targeted land use file was finally approved.

[0:39:57] Trustee Elliott: And it's only about 20 pages.

[0:39:59] Trustee Elliott: So I found them very useful because, you know, it talked a lot.

[0:40:05] Trustee Elliott: and your map actually is useful too because it talked a lot about well you don't want a total

[0:40:13] Trustee Elliott: lot coverage increase for the entire island because the lot sizes on Mudge Island are so

[0:40:20] Trustee Elliott: different and they're all under one residential zone so if you said if you increase your lot

[0:40:27] Trustee Elliott: coverage from 10 to 20 percent for example that would be a disaster environmentally for that those

[0:40:32] Trustee Elliott: huge lots. And it could even be a disaster socially and environmentally for the little tiny lots.

[0:40:39] Trustee Elliott: So it's really tricky when you're asking for something, for example, like a blanket

[0:40:45] Trustee Elliott: log coverage. But that's what we'll talk about later. So I found that quite useful because I

[0:40:50] Trustee Elliott: looked at the Munch map. The other thing I did, and actually I don't want to be contrary to you,

[0:40:55] Trustee Elliott: Chair Lockham, but the history of this is very important to me. So

[0:41:00] Trustee Elliott: I was reading Peter Lamb's

[0:41:02] Trustee Elliott: book, The Story of the Island's Trust, and I already know this, but it reiterates this in that

[0:41:07] Trustee Elliott: lovely little booklet. The reason the 10-acre land freeze came into being in the first place in 1970

[0:41:14] Trustee Elliott: before the Island's Trust is because of two things, Mudge Island and Magic Lake Estates on North

[0:41:21] Trustee Elliott: Vancouver. And so you inherited a disastrous subdivision plan with the Coho Estates and then

[0:41:30] Trustee Elliott: more after that. So you're in a real pickle as far as what you inherited. I really appreciate that

[0:41:39] Trustee Elliott: because as soon as you start putting people, which you should do on those lots, then you're

[0:41:45] Trustee Elliott: going to come up against some real problems. So for me, the history is quite important.

[0:41:51] Voice 5: I think, Susan, you're bang on with, you know, the trust was developed because of exactly these

[0:41:59] Voice 5: these two things. And just for history's sake, I worked on the Magic Lake Estates, you know,

[0:42:06] Voice 5: 100 years ago. I'm familiar with that,

[0:42:09] Voice 9: you

[0:42:10] Voice 5: know, that development. And, you know, you

[0:42:13] Voice 5: can, you can clearly see why there was a reason why the trust was developed. And, and, you

[0:42:19] Voice 5: know, so, you know, we're very understanding. And, you know, it's not missed on the Mudge

[0:42:26] Voice 5: community is wow you know this was a really great plan and you know thankfully obvious

[0:42:34] Voice 5: and it's on you know frankly i believe the ocp says it's unsustainable

[0:42:39] Voice 1: yeah you

[0:42:40] Voice 5: know um you know

[0:42:42] Voice 5: if if much was developed out 100 um boy it it would look like magic lake and the problems would

[0:42:50] Voice 5: be bad. You

[0:42:51] Voice 5: know, and unfortunately, you know, maybe not in our life, but it will come, you

[0:42:58] Voice 5: know.

[0:43:00] Voice 5: So I think we can focus on the

[0:43:02] Voice 14: issues today.

[0:43:05] Voice 14: We've got

[0:43:06] Voice 7: to be free.

[0:43:07] Voice 14: I agree.

[0:43:08] Voice 14: And Warren, you're good. I didn't say help me out if you want to, but I don't think I

[0:43:13] Voice 14: am offended.

[0:43:15] Voice 14: No, I don't.

[0:43:16] Voice 14: Okay. Let's hear from you what the issues are.

[0:43:28] Voice 14: Yeah, rather than line by line, section by section, generalities, and then we can, because

[0:43:34] Voice 14: we've read it, so that will trigger questions from the audience to understand the issue

[0:43:41] Voice 14: better.

[0:43:42] Voice 14: Let's just see how it goes.

[0:43:44] Voice 14: I don't want to say any more than I've already said.

[0:43:47] Voice 14: actually

[0:43:48] Voice 5: what we sorry is is one of the things that and and it's interesting how time helps us

[0:43:53] Voice 5: through these processes and it's this that we look back at our comments and some of the comments that

[0:44:00] Voice 5: toby had suggested to us um and then we do a little bit more research you go maybe we're off

[0:44:07] Voice 5: a little bit here and you know these can be these can be adjusted they truly can and we can work

[0:44:16] Voice 5: with these things um so we're very very much open to it yeah

[0:44:20] Voice 12: yeah i mean one of the one of

[0:44:22] Voice 12: the things that we've changed our position on and we think we can simplify the document is

[0:44:28] the treatment of approved septic system um and what we

[0:44:34] Voice 12: realized is that our land use file has

[0:44:39] Voice 12: has nothing to do or nothing to say about septic systems at all. Well it's because of public health.

[0:44:46] Voice 12: Exactly and it's very clear to us that it's Vancouver Island Health that is the authority

[0:44:53] Voice 12: and our bylaw and our enforcement policy should have nothing to do with it. We understand

[0:45:01] I understand that on occasion VEHA will ask Islands

[0:45:08] Voice 12: Trust enforcement staff if they're going to an island to go have a look at a VEHA issue.

[0:45:15] Voice 12: But as we see it, that's the enforcement staff acting as agents for VEHA and not for Islands Trust.

[0:45:24] Voice 12: And so we don't think it really has a place in here other than health and safety.

[0:45:31] Voice 12: safety. So we think that waste disposal, which is a bigger issue, you know, it includes batteries

[0:45:37] and oil and

[0:45:38] Voice 14: stuff and human waste.

[0:45:41] Voice 12: We think that that has a place here, but we don't think

[0:45:46] Voice 12: a proof of septic system. So

[0:45:49] Voice 14: maybe one is a good opportunity to segue into that conversation

[0:45:53] Voice 14: when you're... So

[0:45:55] Voice 11: there's a prohibition in the Mind-Body

[0:45:57] Voice 11: by-laws, there are many land use by-laws, that says you can't dispose of domestic waste

[0:46:03] Voice 11: or waste on the land. So if your waste isn't going into an approved septic system, registered

[0:46:09] Voice 11: with BHAW, that's contravening the land use by-law. We're not enforcing BHAW regulations,

[0:46:16] Voice 11: but if you don't have an approved system, which is the law in the province, you're disposing

[0:46:23] Voice 11: of your waste onto the land, contrary to the land use bylaws.

[0:46:28] Voice 1: If

[0:46:29] Voice 11: you've got your registration and your permit, however you wish to refer to it, from

[0:46:33] Voice 11: BHA, then yes, BHA would enforce the construction and the maintenance of that system.

[0:46:41] That's all for them.

[0:46:42] Voice 11: But within all land use bylaws, they do put in regulations about siting of septic systems.

[0:46:49] Voice 11: either they'll say they're almost all excluded from any area near water, which can involve some land use by-law.

[0:46:57] Voice 11: They can restrict them from set-back areas.

[0:47:01] Voice 11: So we still have to look at them, because those regulations can be in there and they can be very specific.

[0:47:07] Voice 11: But the main point is, if you don't have an approved system, then you're just dumping waste, and that would mean

[0:47:16] Voice 12: the land use by-law.

[0:47:17] Voice 12: Okay, well, I did not see that in our Lenny's file, and I stand to be corrected, but the only place in the enforcement policy where a proof septic system comes up is in the exception to the, there's a section 4.1 that deals with,

[0:47:41] um it essentially says we're not going to enforce um against well there's a housing crisis and

[0:47:50] and 4.2

[0:47:53] Voice 12: says but we will look at certain things and those and that's where proofs have to come

[0:47:59] Voice 12: so if there's only one small area which is an exception it uses that phrase at all

[0:48:08] Voice 12: in the entire enforcement policy.

[0:48:12] Voice 3: I'd just like to make a comment. I did talk to EOF quite a bit and they said not all

[0:48:17] Voice 3: separate fields were registered prior to 1998 when their violence came in because a lot of

[0:48:22] Voice 3: that time the system was designed by the operators and taking courses that put the fields in. So he said

[0:48:29] Voice 3: you know we don't really have good records prior to 1998. I said well a lot of EOF fields were

[0:48:35] Voice 3: built prior to the game. How does that work? Because not all the operators sent their letters

[0:48:40] Voice 3: and he says it's not a problem. If there was an issue with it, we'd have to get somebody to come

[0:48:45] Voice 3: up and look at it. If it was deemed to be as built at the time appropriately, then we would be okay

[0:48:51] Voice 3: with it. So

[0:48:52] Voice 3: that's where they kind of went. So not all have to have a permit. Not all do. After 98,

[0:49:00] Voice 3: they all did he said but not prior to so some will have on file we had that i had that discussion

[0:49:07] Voice 3: with the office a few months back so

[0:49:11] Voice 11: what it comes down to when we're looking at these septic systems

[0:49:16] Voice 11: if there's no obvious waste being disposed of on the land as it's not seeping it's not creating

[0:49:23] Voice 11: a hazard it's okay but almost everyone as they make unregistered beyond they're still able to

[0:49:33] reduce the records

[0:49:33] Voice 9: this happens about

[0:49:36] Voice 11: many many miles here here's the record and it's okay this

[0:49:40] Voice 11: is built according to specs okay great you don't see any evidence of disposable waste on the

[0:49:46] Voice 11: property so there's no grounds for us to proceed any further there's no health and safety risk

[0:49:51] Voice 11: there's no sewage underground. We're not going to proceed with enforcement just as you can

[0:49:56] end a piece of paper and say, okay, yes, it's an approved system. In the

[0:50:01] Voice 11: end, it's what's

[0:50:02] Voice 11: the evidence on the ground? Either there's waste, which we can get a count of this frequently.

[0:50:08] Voice 11: There's the human waste bubbling out of the septic system because it's overused or it's

[0:50:12] Voice 11: just an old organic or whatever. As long as we don't see that, it's not a concern.

[0:50:17] Voice 11: So,

[0:50:18] Voice 5: in our simplistic view, and we try to keep it simple, is what we see and feel is that if there's a septic issue, our thoughts would be that it should be referred to BHA, and BHA is the agency to come out to investigate, or you on their behalf.

[0:50:46] Voice 5: out so for example so first we don't investigate

[0:50:49] Voice 11: anything on their behalf we don't investigate

[0:50:52] Voice 11: anything on any agency lab ever we have no authority to do that you don't need that okay

[0:50:59] Voice 15: so

[0:51:00] Voice 11: they will ask us questions did you go there what did you see they're gathered they're doing

[0:51:05] Voice 11: their own investigation and we provide input yes we didn't find anything there's no poop on the

[0:51:11] Voice 11: ground and if they said okay great there's no poop on the ground we're not going to go look at it okay

[0:51:24] Voice 16: this

[0:51:24] Trustee Elliott: is actually an important issue to get clarity on and so if we want to talk about

[0:51:29] Trustee Elliott: gold before back to our goals figuring out the inter-jurisdictional responsibilities of each

[0:51:34] Trustee Elliott: agency and how we work together specifically for lunch is the question because yes building permit

[0:51:42] Trustee Elliott: permit operators from the NILO have not been going over too much.

[0:51:46] Trustee Elliott: WIHA is not tending to spend the money to go to lunch to investigate.

[0:51:51] Trustee Elliott: And so whose responsibility is it?

[0:51:54] Trustee Elliott: So under the Almanz Trust, you know, object of the trust,

[0:51:58] Trustee Elliott: upholding the protection of the environment means that,

[0:52:04] Trustee Elliott: so if you see something, Warren, that is a concern,

[0:52:09] Trustee Elliott: do you report it to WIHA?

[0:52:11] Trustee Elliott: what is the role of how do we deal with that because it i mean we should be concerned if

[0:52:17] Trustee Elliott: there's waste on the ground um but if he has not investigating then who is but we're not agents of

[0:52:23] Trustee Elliott: vh so how does that work out um i'd like to get some clarity so

[0:52:29] Voice 11: so we refer these issues to

[0:52:31] Voice 11: whatever whatever's the appropriate agency or we try to yeah it

[0:52:35] Voice 11: goes to vh exposures and

[0:52:38] Voice 11: polluters line all the time so it's reported to the province the province supposed to you know

[0:52:43] process their system and send it to the appropriate uh authority to invest uh sometimes

[0:52:49] they

[0:52:49] Voice 11: do that sometimes they don't but if there's really a problem with the subject system yes we're

[0:52:54] Voice 11: going to refer it to rehab and it's up to them to say whether or not in the end this is an approved

[0:53:00] Voice 11: system or it's not but if someone absolutely doesn't have an assistant that's just dumping

[0:53:05] Voice 11: the human waste in an open pit you're not grounds to issue that ticket if you're just dumping waste

[0:53:11] Voice 11: onto the land you're not following the ritual regulations it says it must be able to do a system

[0:53:18] Trustee Elliott: so but that has to contravene the land use bylaw so it's under what

[0:53:26] Voice 11: section the prohibition which

[0:53:27] Voice 11: states you can't dump waste onto

[0:53:30] Trustee Elliott: the land right so now we're back to talking disposal of waste

[0:53:34] Trustee Elliott: what constitutes waste domestic waste which is also an issue how do we it's

[0:53:39] Voice 11: any type of waste yeah if it says you can't dispose of waste on land or in the

[0:53:44] Voice 11: water yeah if

[0:53:45] Voice 11: you do that without some type you can get it over fall permits or

[0:53:49] Voice 11: whatever call from the province so the bay has one to dump whatever sewage or

[0:53:54] Voice 11: whatever they got in the past out into the bay I think that's all that's the

[0:53:59] Voice 11: province says they can do that we we can't go give them a ticket if they're using some type

[0:54:05] Voice 11: of system which puts out the ball into the ocean right why because they have a provincial permit

[0:54:11] Voice 11: to do that license so

[0:54:15] Trustee Elliott: going back to the policy and much uh suggestions uh can we look at you

[0:54:22] Trustee Elliott: you know, specifically from 1.1.2 to Part E, which is the enforcement on contraventions

[0:54:34] Trustee Elliott: in environmentally sensitive areas, the cultural heritage site, or concern issues of health

[0:54:39] Trustee Elliott: and safety, including the lack of septic services, can proceed with one written complaint with

[0:54:44] Trustee Elliott: any person, but not quite much.

[0:54:47] Trustee Elliott: So let's get specific about is this going to work to ensure that

[0:54:57] Trustee Elliott: if there's an issue in an environmentally sensitive area,

[0:55:01] Trustee Elliott: if somebody is dumping waste on the ground, does that policy cover it or is this too specific

[0:55:08] Trustee Elliott: saying a lack of septic services? Right so if they don't have a registered septic system

[0:55:16] Trustee Elliott: does that mean there is no septic surface?

[0:55:19] Trustee Elliott: Does the bylaw enforcement officer come and say,

[0:55:22] Trustee Elliott: well, there's a system in place.

[0:55:25] Trustee Elliott: They're not registered with VHOP,

[0:55:28] Trustee Elliott: but it's not impacting the environment.

[0:55:30] Trustee Elliott: So therefore it's, it blows us.

[0:55:35] Trustee Elliott: Do you know what I mean?

[0:55:35] Trustee Elliott: There's, there's.

[0:55:37] Voice 11: So again, if there's no poop on the ground,

[0:55:39] Voice 11: no poop going in the water, all good?

[0:55:41] Voice 11: Right.

[0:55:42] Voice 11: I mean, we're talking about obvious stuff here.

[0:55:44] Voice 11: Open sewage pits.

[0:55:45] Voice 11: Yeah, yeah. So

[0:55:47] Voice 6: an outhouse is okay?

[0:55:49] Voice 6: No, an outhouse is okay.

[0:55:52] Voice 11: Pardon me?

[0:55:53] Voice 11: An outhouse is okay. We have a set of areas, but an outhouse isn't permitted under BC law anymore. You have to have a holding tank.

[0:56:02] Voice 11: But with the Islands Trust, it's okay?

[0:56:04] Voice 11: Yes. It's a building.

[0:56:06] Voice 11: Right.

[0:56:07] Voice 11: In the end, if the building is on setback areas, you know, in the old fashioned pits,

[0:56:16] Trustee Elliott: actually i've seen properties where there's an outhouse and there's a building and water comes

[0:56:22] Trustee Elliott: through and poop literally can wash up and out so actually i don't think having a building define

[0:56:29] Trustee Elliott: what is an appropriate subject let's call it holding tank i don't think that's necessarily

[0:56:35] Trustee Elliott: solution so

[0:56:36] Voice 5: interesting now this is one of the points that i don't think we're going to be able

[0:56:41] Voice 5: to zero in on but we'll have some real constructive discussion about it yeah but

[0:56:48] Voice 5: um you know and we've

[0:56:50] Voice 5: certainly backed off our our thoughts on this and and you know we and we we go to the point of saying

[0:56:59] Voice 5: well maybe islands trust doesn't have a role in septic and affluent period you know it's a it's a

[0:57:08] Voice 5: veehaw issue full stop and then there you know but there is an exception for obvious situations

[0:57:17] Voice 5: no one wants that we have i think i know we all like um but it's it's it's more that we want

[0:57:24] Voice 5: to look at trying to uh say this is really veehaw business a lot of this and the complaints should

[0:57:32] Voice 5: should be forwarded to Mi'kmaq.

[0:57:35] Voice 5: If a neighbor has a strong opinion,

[0:57:37] Voice 5: it should be forwarded to Mi'kmaq.

[0:57:39] Voice 5: If the Islands Trust has a strong opinion

[0:57:41] Voice 5: that it's non-compliant, it should be forwarded

[0:57:45] Voice 5: if they feel it's appropriate.

[0:57:47] Voice 5: But the subjectiveness of perhaps

[0:57:54] Voice 5: a day-to-day thing is where the problem is.

[0:57:58] Voice 5: and and that's that's what we see

[0:58:02] Voice 14: yeah i just sort of think the the so if we look at the scenario we

[0:58:07] Voice 14: have somebody decides to look at every single second field on the island and raise a complaint

[0:58:12] Voice 14: and says i don't know if this is not permanent i don't know if this is out i don't know if this

[0:58:17] Voice 14: got now bylaw enforcement is now obliged by the policies to go in and check whether everybody

[0:58:24] Voice 14: everybody has permits. Now,

[0:58:25] Voice 14: I have a permit, I'm registered and all that stuff, but I don't have a permit, I'm registered.

[0:58:30] Voice 16: But

[0:58:31] Voice 14: we don't have to go and dig up my paper. We're not looking for permits.

[0:58:34] Voice 14: They're looking for registration. Confirming that we're not looking for registration.

[0:58:38] Voice 14: I don't know.

[0:58:40] Voice 11: It's sewage. Sewage on the ground.

[0:58:46] Voice 2: It's as simple as that.

[0:58:48] Voice 2: So I hear exactly what you're saying, but what I think what's been happening with some of these complaint letters that have been received by people, in their letters, one of the things saying about their property themselves is they may not have property.

[0:59:07] Voice 2: receptors speculation there's yeah it's like they may not like these some of these complaints

[0:59:12] Voice 2: they're not they haven't even been found in evidence it's just someone is uh throwing things

[0:59:18] Voice 2: at the wall to a little stick and they're saying things like they may not have an approved system

[0:59:23] Voice 2: without any knowledge one way or the other so let's address that um

[0:59:28] Voice 14: i call them rumors i don't

[0:59:30] Voice 14: know what you call it but take that in

[0:59:33] Voice 11: specific so if someone is only complaining about

[0:59:36] Voice 11: I don't know if that as a permanent or as a registered system, if that's the substance of their complaint.

[0:59:43] Voice 11: I don't open a file.

[0:59:45] Voice 11: I say, go to the EON.

[0:59:47] Voice 11: If they say, wait a minute here, this person doesn't have a system, and here's the trench, here's a photo of the trench, here's the pit, we're going to open a file.

[0:59:56] Voice 11: But it's just, oh, I don't believe that's an approved septic system.

[0:59:58] Voice 11: I do this all the time.

[1:00:00] Voice 11: the time. I have to do it every couple of months. Contact VHOM. Contact VHOM. They'll

[1:00:04] Voice 11: come back to me and say, VHOM won't do anything. Well, we have no jurisdiction. Contact VHOM.

[1:00:09] Voice 11: They're the ones that regulate this, if that's your only complaint.

[1:00:12] Voice 2: Yeah. So, sorry, with that, I'm just going to follow up to my

[1:00:15] Voice 2: question. So, that may

[1:00:19] Voice 2: still show up in a letter from bylaw saying that this has been said about your property

[1:00:26] Voice 2: as well as a b c and d and so therefore you're not even though you're mentioning may not have

[1:00:33] Voice 2: a proof-centric system you're only there for the other things at that point that's what you're

[1:00:38] Voice 2: saying correct

[1:00:39] Voice 11: we're trying to be open and transparent with the letters here's the complaints

[1:00:43] Voice 11: as much as possible it's two pages long we're not going to send you a two page long letter we don't

[1:00:47] Voice 11: need to here are the basics of the complaint it's a summary doesn't always include everything but

[1:00:53] Voice 11: here's the sound that's just about being open and transparent and then we talk through the issues

[1:00:59] Voice 11: go through the issues and it just comes down to there's no you know the septic system looks like

[1:01:05] Voice 11: there's nothing for us to see smell whatever then that's the end of it if they want to take it up

[1:01:10] Voice 11: with vhav that's up to them so

[1:01:13] Voice 5: the ticketing process that you spoke of earlier would apply

[1:01:16] Voice 5: by if there's a visible situation then, or?

[1:01:22] Voice 5: Yes, only here is

[1:01:24] Voice 11: there poop on the ground.

[1:01:26] Voice 11: Yeah.

[1:01:26] Voice 11: So we can see it, okay, that's easy.

[1:01:28] Voice 11: We gotta convince the adjudicator,

[1:01:31] Voice 11: here's a disposal waste.

[1:01:33] Voice 11: Yeah.

[1:01:33] Voice 11: I mean, it never goes that far because,

[1:01:36] Voice 11: okay, we need it here.

[1:01:38] Voice 11: Here's the waste, okay, yeah, I can do this.

[1:01:40] Voice 11: People recognize they shouldn't be doing that.

[1:01:43] Voice 11: They correct it pretty quick.

[1:01:44] Voice 11: So I don't think we maybe have to issue a ticket regarding something that specific because it gets fixed because, oh my God, the neighbors know that I'm just dumping it out in a pit and the neighbors are concerned about their well water, which is just across the property line.

[1:02:00] Voice 11: And they repeatedly bring up Walkerton from Ontario. I

[1:02:03] Voice 11: don't want that E. coli contamination in my well. That's one reason why we have to take it seriously.

[1:02:09] Voice 11: and so many of the Gulf Islands rely on well water.

[1:02:12] Voice 11: Yeah.

[1:02:13] Voice 11: Our goal is the same here.

[1:02:15] Voice 11: Yeah, ironically,

[1:02:17] Voice 14: our goal is the same.

[1:02:18] Voice 14: I think we all agree.

[1:02:20] Voice 14: Yeah, we do.

[1:02:20] Voice 14: I think we can probably move on.

[1:02:22] Voice 14: I think we can move on.

[1:02:24] Voice 14: It's about health and safety.

[1:02:26] Voice 14: Suzanne's trying to answer.

[1:02:27] Voice 7: Yeah, and I agree too.

[1:02:29] Voice 7: But I just, first, clarity.

[1:02:31] Voice 7: If someone forms a complaint and, as Scott was trying to say,

[1:02:36] Voice 7: a complaint that says um i don't know they have an approved septic uh i think they're have too

[1:02:44] Voice 7: much lock coverage so you get that you open up a file and then you come to investigate are you

[1:02:52] Voice 7: gonna say can i look at your septic field as

[1:02:55] Voice 11: soon as you get on the property you can smell it you

[1:02:57] Voice 11: don't have to know

[1:02:58] Voice 7: but no that's fine i'm just going to say are you going to actively look at

[1:03:01] Voice 7: a septic field that's my question but

[1:03:05] Voice 11: i know if i get on the property and i can't smell or see

[1:03:08] Voice 11: anything you want to get the excess of the lot covered okay

[1:03:11] Voice 7: you want to

[1:03:12] Voice 11: just want to be open

[1:03:13] Voice 11: and transparent yeah here's the complaint if the complaint is just about a septic system or

[1:03:18] Voice 11: anything else it has nothing to do with the land use bylaw i have to tell them i have no jurisdiction

[1:03:23] Voice 11: here you need to go to the appropriate agency right i mean we could you've

[1:03:30] Voice 7: answered my question

[1:03:30] Voice 7: I just want to declare to you, you're not going to come and say, I need to see your septic field, if you don't smell anything.

[1:03:35] Voice 11: And if there's no evidence on the ground, there's no grounds to do anything further.

[1:03:40] Voice 11: Okay, that's

[1:03:41] Voice 5: all I need to hear.

[1:03:42] Voice 5: From our perspective, we did a rethink on this, and we just think less said on septic, other than the obvious, is probably better.

[1:03:54] Voice 5: and and remaining silent on it because it being a beehive authority and jurisdiction the less said

[1:04:01] Voice 5: the better and that's kind of our thinking today you know just to sound about it

[1:04:07] Voice 9: so we have this

[1:04:08] Voice 11: discussion that's all bringing they drafted some wording that essentially is what i've been telling

[1:04:15] Voice 11: you now okay this is what we're concerned about sure but yes and it can all be learned

[1:04:21] Voice 11: and pretender that's a fine line just so that provides clarity about like we're looking

[1:04:29] Voice 11: at all right what are you using for poop in the actual dog

[1:04:34] Trustee Elliott: so can i get back to my question on the policy uh draft and then like this comments

[1:04:43] Trustee Elliott: which the more most of them are in the front be much violent can we work through that part

[1:04:51] Trustee Elliott: I'm looking at the red line documents about that as well.

[1:04:56] Trustee Elliott: The

[1:04:57] Voice 15: much specific part of it.

[1:04:59] Voice 15: Much

[1:04:59] Trustee Elliott: specific, because I think that'll be, it'll focus our discussion and go, is this still your recommendation?

[1:05:07] Trustee Elliott: And why would you like that changed?

[1:05:09] Trustee Elliott: And then we can talk about, yes, that's possible, or no, that's not possible, or that can go to another body.

[1:05:16] Trustee Elliott: Is that okay?

[1:05:17] Voice 5: Absolutely.

[1:05:17] Voice 5: Sure.

[1:05:18] Trustee Elliott: Okay.

[1:05:19] Voice 5: I don't think there's anything.

[1:05:20] Voice 5: Is there anything in the...

[1:05:22] Voice 5: Well, there are things that we now understand

[1:05:25] Voice 12: might be beyond

[1:05:26] Voice 12: the authority of the world trust.

[1:05:27] Voice 12: So the whole mini-must issue

[1:05:30] Voice 12: and what discretion is going to be exercised

[1:05:33] Voice 12: at the complaint stage as opposed to the enforcement state,

[1:05:37] I think that's a trust council issue ultimately.

[1:05:42] And I think we've heard us from what our comments are.

[1:05:46] we think very strongly that the descriptions should be exercised at the beginning before

[1:05:55] people

[1:05:56] Voice 12: are received complaint letters and inspections because we know from experience

[1:06:04] Voice 12: that it can be a traumatic experience so so why are we putting people through it

[1:06:12] Voice 12: before we know if there's a problem so

[1:06:15] Trustee Elliott: so to get to that question um i'm looking at the new draft

[1:06:20] Trustee Elliott: that we reviewed at rpc the regional planning committee september 4th which is going to trust

[1:06:27] Trustee Elliott: council on september 6th so in that draft there is a new section use of discretion uh section eight

[1:06:36] Trustee Elliott: so before it just went from seven legal action to finding by all those debt so use of discretion

[1:06:41] Trustee Elliott: If I can read it out again, this is draft and this would amend trust council policy

[1:06:46] Trustee Elliott: 5.5.1.

[1:06:48] Trustee Elliott: Has

[1:06:48] Voice 5: that been published yet?

[1:06:50] Voice 5: That

[1:06:50] Trustee Elliott: was in the RPC agenda.

[1:06:52] Trustee Elliott: So it's the same one and that's gone to second committee and trust council.

[1:06:58] Trustee Elliott: So use of discretion, local trust committees, this is draft, may adopt discretionary enforcement

[1:07:03] Trustee Elliott: policies using the following guidelines.

[1:07:05] Trustee Elliott: The nature and urgency of the complaint or alleged contravention, the impact of the contravention

[1:07:11] Trustee Elliott: on the complainant and community, previous decisions or legal precedents on similar

[1:07:16] Trustee Elliott: complaints, the matter appears to be a civil dispute, frivolous or vexatious in nature,

[1:07:21] Trustee Elliott: and then again, it's referring to a different policy, which we don't have. It's a new potential

[1:07:27] Trustee Elliott: policy. The impact of the contraventions on the complainant or other persons, the impact of the

[1:07:32] Trustee Elliott: complaint or alleged contravention on public health, safety, or the environment, or there

[1:07:37] Trustee Elliott: are limited resources available to resolve the matter so this is a new potential section if

[1:07:43] Trustee Elliott: trust council endorse endorses the amendments to trust council policy that allows that would allow

[1:07:52] Trustee Elliott: local trust committees to empower law enforcement discretionary policies enforcement policies

[1:08:00] Trustee Elliott: So that would address, in my view, your suggestion here, which was to change enforcement will proceed only if blah, blah, blah, or there are written complaints.

[1:08:15] Trustee Elliott: My suggestion was a file will not be opened unless there are written complaints.

[1:08:21] Trustee Elliott: And the conversation that you and I had that we needed to have at this meeting today was

[1:08:27] Trustee Elliott: we cannot change, I mean staff obviously is going to give us their opinions, but from

[1:08:33] Trustee Elliott: my understanding we can't say a file will not be opened, right?

[1:08:38] Trustee Elliott: So

[1:08:38] Voice 15: we understand.

[1:08:39] Trustee Elliott: And Micah, so I just want to hear from you that you're okay with this would go back to

[1:08:45] Trustee Elliott: enforcement will proceed only.

[1:08:47] Voice 15: Yes, yes, we agree.

[1:08:49] Trustee Elliott: Perfect.

[1:08:49] Trustee Elliott: Right. That was the

[1:08:52] Trustee Elliott: main thing I wanted to clarify.

[1:08:54] Voice 14: When we read it up, we realized that the investigation, which we were trying to actually, we were trying to do investigations, right?

[1:09:02] Voice 14: Yeah.

[1:09:03] Voice 14: Because the community does see them as often invasive.

[1:09:07] Voice 14: Invasive, yeah.

[1:09:08] Voice 14: So that's why we kind of went that route.

[1:09:09] Voice 14: But then when we saw that that is actually superseding policy, not the local trust, we said,

[1:09:15] Voice 14: okay, well, we can't ask that.

[1:09:16] Voice 14: all we can do is ask for enforcement will not happen unless these things are happening

[1:09:20] Voice 14: as part of the learning process yeah that

[1:09:23] Voice 5: horse gave me for the wrong car absolutely

[1:09:26] Trustee Elliott: and we didn't

[1:09:27] Voice 5: understand the you know that was in play i'm

[1:09:31] Trustee Elliott: still learning too so

[1:09:33] Voice 5: and and so it it's very

[1:09:35] Voice 5: helpful so

[1:09:36] Trustee Elliott: is that okay like warren my am i characterizing this correctly or no that's good

[1:09:41] Voice 11: have it just we're about to transition to the city view software right

[1:09:45] Trustee Elliott: uh

[1:09:46] Voice 11: so with the new portal

[1:09:51] Voice 11: there are certain things that are going to be created automatically so which you know might

[1:09:58] Voice 11: be should have been done years ago so the complaint is going to be coming in and there's going to be

[1:10:04] Voice 11: a file number here it's all going to be created in the system

[1:10:07] Voice 16: how

[1:10:08] Voice 11: it's managed then will be by policy

[1:10:11] Voice 11: but and you know whether or not that'll be a public view i don't know i don't know if that

[1:10:17] Voice 11: can be stopped if the city view software is going to say okay here's all the island stress files for

[1:10:23] Voice 11: this property and complaints have been submitted i right now don't know how that's going to be

[1:10:28] Voice 11: managed someone has submitted five bylaw complaints about the property that may pop up when you bring

[1:10:33] Voice 11: out the property information they have here's the five bylaw files and here's the five planning

[1:10:40] Voice 11: any files for that wrong okay so

[1:10:42] Voice 11: that's going to have an impact on how we have to manage that

[1:10:45] Voice 11: but in the end what you said yes that's so we need the policy on okay how are we going to proceed

[1:10:54] Voice 11: how are we going to manage the workload how are we going to manage volume yeah that's why i suggest

[1:10:59] Voice 11: we give us some ability to say okay we have only limited limited resources and we open up all these

[1:11:08] Voice 11: files if that policy had been in place at the beginning of this year when all these complaints

[1:11:12] Voice 11: had come in at some point but i wanted to say okay i want to stop here because there's too

[1:11:17] Voice 11: many for this little island

[1:11:19] Voice 9: not

[1:11:20] Voice 11: the whole bunch but it is smaller than you can't go

[1:11:24] Voice 11: i had a double justification to say i need to stop yeah if

[1:11:31] Voice 11: that policy's in place we don't

[1:11:33] Voice 11: have time and resources to investigate 100 files yeah as daniel snyder pointed out he has more

[1:11:39] Voice 11: files on much than he hasn't gabriel or any of the islands even salt spring that he has to work on

[1:11:45] Voice 11: so more discretion to staff one will allow us to close files faster when they are opened okay

[1:11:53] Voice 11: you're not meeting them right here we need to move forward so we can close it

[1:11:57] Voice 11: it and also okay i can't open 50 files on much this year i'm gonna have to tell the complaint

[1:12:04] Voice 11: that okay we've got limited resources we're going to exercise my discretion and i'm going to

[1:12:09] prioritize your complaints and maybe

[1:12:13] Voice 11: we'll proceed on one third of them for these reasons and the

[1:12:15] Voice 11: other two thirds you know okay can't be addressed this year anyway bring them up next year or one

[1:12:22] Voice 5: of the things that i i should have mentioned earlier is on the map um that's only representative

[1:12:27] Voice 5: of the complaints that have happened um there's much more egregious from things that are obvious

[1:12:35] Voice 5: above and beyond those color-coded ones that you know no complaints have come forward

[1:12:42] Voice 5: and and you go wow you know i mean these these these properties here have complaints but what

[1:12:48] Voice 5: about that guy that guy that guy that guy that guy and those are even more egregious than the

[1:12:54] Voice 9: and

[1:12:55] Voice 5: and and so this the potential for this to to to to double is is is is a real very real

[1:13:05] Voice 5: possibility right um

[1:13:08] Voice 2: so um like you guys have been great you've um you've made the motions to

[1:13:15] Voice 2: for deferring of investigations until policy, sorry, enforcement,

[1:13:22] Voice 2: until policies drafted and adopted even went further,

[1:13:26] Voice 2: say, until we open up and review the OCP

[1:13:30] Voice 16: bylaws.

[1:13:32] Voice 2: And that's great.

[1:13:34] Voice 2: And what I'm thinking is through the adoption of this policy,

[1:13:39] Voice 2: when we get there, that a lot of the existing,

[1:13:42] Voice 2: depending on how we go with this,

[1:13:45] Voice 2: A lot of the existing complaints on Mudge Island wouldn't even qualify anymore.

[1:13:51] Voice 2: I mean, one of the things that Warren had in his original draft of the policy was that two complaint letters would be needed to start a file or start an investigation.

[1:14:06] Voice 2: So, you know, there's many, many, many of these open files on Mudge that are derived from one complaint letter.

[1:14:14] Voice 2: so right off the bat if that type of policy was adopted it would it would eliminate possibly more

[1:14:22] Voice 2: than half of the open files right now so

[1:14:25] Trustee Elliott: and so let's talk about that because specifically um

[1:14:30] Voice 11: yes that that proposed in there for the local trust we said whether i want to see what other

[1:14:36] Voice 11: ldcs and different issues have said yeah we want two complaints or we're going to proceed yeah

[1:14:43] Voice 3: Can I ask a question more? When you get a complaint, say if you're so busy you can't get to it right away, is there a time frame where it just expires so that you don't look at it anymore? So once the file is open, it's over.

[1:14:55] Voice 3: Are

[1:14:55] Voice 11: you talking about the complaint?

[1:14:57] Voice 3: The complaint.

[1:14:58] Voice 3: The actual complaint.

[1:15:00] Voice 11: There's no time frame for it?

[1:15:03] Voice 11: No. I mean, 99% of the microprocess is over within five minutes.

[1:15:09] Voice 3: So there was no time frame on saying hey this complaint came in 2014 and I didn't get a chance to look at it until 2016 because I've been doing it.

[1:15:18] Voice 3: So that shouldn't

[1:15:19] Voice 11: happen anymore. In the past there was a delay of months before certain files were opened.

[1:15:26] Voice 11: I want them processed immediately.

[1:15:29] Voice 11: So there isn't a time frame?

[1:15:31] Voice 11: No there isn't. I mean sometimes it is okay, you know, we're down to myself and one of the file officers and I have no staff.

[1:15:38] Voice 11: out that it could wait a couple months before I can say we can even start working. But there's

[1:15:44] Voice 11: no nothing in policy or law that says I can't process in six months' length.

[1:15:49] Voice 11: Or a year is a bit longer.

[1:15:50] Voice 11: Well, a year is getting a bit longer, but it shouldn't take that long anyway. You don't

[1:15:57] Voice 11: receive that anyway, but it's approximately one per working day. So

[1:16:01] Voice 11: that's easy to deal

[1:16:02] Voice 11: with.

[1:16:03] Voice 11: You know,

[1:16:04] Voice 14: some of this stuff isn't necessarily relevant to Bob Horton has been understaffed

[1:16:09] Voice 14: for years and years, and they now have clerical support that helps to administrate that much

[1:16:14] Voice 14: better. So it flows much better than it ever has.

[1:16:19] Trustee Elliott: I have one quick comment and a question. The comment is, I noticed that since our last

[1:16:24] Trustee Elliott: meeting with my dad, that there have been a number of final enforcement investigations

[1:16:31] Trustee Elliott: investigations closed for my job because we get the closure notifications and I feel like

[1:16:38] Trustee Elliott: it's good to see that and then my question actually is to manager Damon is that in the

[1:16:49] Trustee Elliott: communications portion of the draft bylaw 9.4 it has two things that that you can use for

[1:16:58] Trustee Elliott: communications to us. So one is some arranged public information

[1:17:03] Trustee Elliott: and then we have one already specific to much and I really

[1:17:08] Trustee Elliott: appreciate that. And then the alternative is that you are

[1:17:12] Trustee Elliott: available during the meeting session. But I feel like we need

[1:17:16] Trustee Elliott: both depending on the situation. So I don't want to see one or

[1:17:20] Trustee Elliott: the other.

[1:17:21] Trustee Elliott: because both so far have been very helpful.

[1:17:26] Voice 4: The webinars have been excellent.

[1:17:29] Voice 4: The community, you know,

[1:17:35] Voice 5: it takes a while for them to understand.

[1:17:38] Voice 5: And I think the more that we, as a group,

[1:17:42] Voice 5: you know, educate,

[1:17:44] Voice 5: the more success we'll have as a group and compliance.

[1:17:49] Voice 5: And the community certainly is understanding more in your, you know, what you have to do.

[1:17:58] Voice 5: And we supported your perspective is that, you know, violence is obligated to do this.

[1:18:05] Voice 5: And when your educational webinars came out, they were a bit of a shock to the community.

[1:18:13] Voice 5: But it educated and it was extremely valuable.

[1:18:17] Voice 14: I mean, that's a good discussion.

[1:18:18] Voice 14: And, you know, the Mudge Island musication team has actually got more donations

[1:18:23] Voice 14: and is able to, and they, what are they, 28 vehicles or 30, almost 30?

[1:18:28] Voice 14: They're like vehicle vehicles.

[1:18:30] Voice 14: I mean, pulled off the island, including some that have been there forever,

[1:18:34] Voice 14: kind of thing that, you know, where they literally had to drag the thing on skates.

[1:18:40] Voice 6: It's a lot more than that, actually, if you look back in the last,

[1:18:43] Voice 6: I'm just saying, even six years.

[1:18:45] Voice 6: Since April.

[1:18:45] Voice 6: Since April.

[1:18:46] Voice 6: Yeah, I'm just suggesting.

[1:18:48] Voice 6: But they've been doing more.

[1:18:49] Voice 6: It's been accelerating,

[1:18:51] Voice 14: which is actually awesome.

[1:18:53] Voice 14: And, you know, they're working with some people who have a view to get them off.

[1:18:58] Voice 14: The community gets it.

[1:18:59] Voice 14: They're

[1:18:59] Voice 5: starting to get that there are, but it's going to be, you know,

[1:19:05] Voice 5: we just can't turn it around real quick.

[1:19:07] Voice 5: You know, it's a process.

[1:19:09] Voice 5: And they're starting to understand.

[1:19:13] Voice 5: they really are that there are rules that we have to comply with can

[1:19:19] Voice 7: we get back to

[1:19:20] Voice 7: 1.1 yeah so

[1:19:22] Voice 7: we all agree on what that's going to say yeah so like what i'm hearing is it would

[1:19:28] Voice 7: read enforcement will not be open enforcement will proceed only

[1:19:37] Voice 12: and there you go

[1:19:38] Voice 7: uh there are

[1:19:39] Voice 7: written complaints to see from at least two persons on separate properties on much within 60 days of

[1:19:45] Voice 7: each other with one who resides within 100 meters of subject property and demonstrates that the

[1:19:50] Voice 7: alleged convention has no first impact on them or the community and

[1:19:55] Voice 5: so i defer you know we defer to

[1:19:59] Voice 5: you more is that something that you can can live with or work with is it is it and the trucks of

[1:20:05] Voice 5: of course is is it are we you know reaching

[1:20:08] Voice 11: or what i think in the end that it's there's going

[1:20:12] Voice 11: to be a staff report that'll give the lgc recommendations and i right now i wouldn't

[1:20:19] Voice 11: endorse this we can change the wording what would

[1:20:25] Voice 16: it look like in

[1:20:25] Voice 11: the end i think you should just

[1:20:27] Voice 11: look at okay two complaints you have two complaints from two separate individuals

[1:20:33] Voice 11: trying to say okay they're on different properties and this type of thing I don't know that that

[1:20:41] Voice 11: is realistic and plus you gain a trust council policy that states confidentiality must be

[1:20:49] Voice 11: maintained so if you say you must have a complaint from your immediate neighbor then you're giving

[1:20:55] Voice 11: up confidentiality

[1:20:57] Voice 9: you're

[1:20:58] Voice 11: going to reveal who the complainant is and I don't and that's how

[1:21:03] Voice 11: to define

[1:21:04] Voice 2: say the immediate neighbors it

[1:21:06] Voice 7: says 100 meters that's a lot not much for us

[1:21:10] Voice 2: it's going to be like six or eight different properties remember we got a small lot

[1:21:15] Voice 11: so it's an option for the ldc defense right what

[1:21:19] Voice 11: i think is the best practice no i think here's

[1:21:21] Voice 11: the simplest way to do two complaints can you use some of this other language that demonstrates you

[1:21:27] Voice 11: know adverse impact okay sure you saw that one but getting into this this very specific this many

[1:21:35] Voice 11: meters uh within a certain time frame the only example i give is maine um who did that you know

[1:21:46] Voice 11: provided such a policy which i wouldn't have written for them to recommend it but they did

[1:21:52] Voice 11: that because they were concerned about housing so we don't want people put out of unlawful secondary

[1:21:57] Voice 11: suites or some type of unlawful dwelling so we want to really restrict why we're going to proceed

[1:22:04] Voice 11: with enforcement so but this can be tailor-made to okay on these issues like in here there should

[1:22:12] Voice 11: be language in here no no need to proceed on uh minor structures and you know right now there's

[1:22:21] Voice 11: trust council policy that says that um um with the director of planning services stephens or mac

[1:22:29] Voice 11: and myself we can agree on what is not a minor uh an issue of a contribution of a minor character

[1:22:36] Voice 11: or structure and then it's not in the interest of the trust to prosecute that to pursue that

[1:22:44] Voice 11: and just step in an id to have okay here are the issues right now that like foods from farmstays

[1:22:51] Voice 11: it's a you know any type of little farm stand that are everywhere that should be considered

[1:22:56] Voice 11: mine let's not pursue that we need to develop just our rules here here's what's minor if the

[1:23:02] Voice 11: ldc doesn't say okay here's some minor issues you don't wish to pursue can

[1:23:08] Voice 12: i just um so the

[1:23:11] Voice 12: purpose of the language that we came up with is to close the hole to stop the drive-by complaints

[1:23:22] Voice 12: and so there's two factors. One is you have to be affected by it and the other is you have to

[1:23:30] Voice 12: be close by and we picked 100 meters because for most properties online it's not going to identify

[1:23:37] Voice 12: the complainant because there are six to twelve within 100 meters because the properties are so

[1:23:43] small so you know if we had the view of

[1:23:48] Voice 12: company and reality remaining confidence in mind and that's

[1:23:53] Voice 12: that that's why we suggested it so yeah

[1:23:56] Voice 6: there's there's i don't think there's a single uh scenario

[1:24:00] Voice 6: on our island that would uh point like direct it at any one property like the 100 meter thing i

[1:24:09] Voice 6: I mean, that would involve, at least at my place,

[1:24:12] Voice 6: I think that involves probably like a dozen properties at least,

[1:24:17] Voice 6: probably more.

[1:24:19] Voice 7: And for my property, for example,

[1:24:22] Voice 7: it's 100 metres is a whole new neighbourhood.

[1:24:24] Voice 6: They're

[1:24:25] Voice 7: like way up a hill and over.

[1:24:27] Voice 7: They can't even see my property.

[1:24:28] Voice 6: And I think we got to that idea.

[1:24:31] Voice 6: It's

[1:24:31] Voice 7: a whole different neighbourhood.

[1:24:32] Voice 6: I think it was the first webinar,

[1:24:35] Voice 6: it suggested something that we might consider.

[1:24:37] Voice 6: I think you said 200 meters, but I wrote it down.

[1:24:42] Voice 14: You said it.

[1:24:42] Voice 14: Oh, okay.

[1:24:43] Voice 6: You actually said it, right?

[1:24:44] Voice 6: You said, I mean, you got two complaints from me.

[1:24:48] Voice 6: And I

[1:24:48] Voice 6: liked that one, but I guess that it's maybe.

[1:24:51] Voice 6: But

[1:24:51] Voice 14: we, so we heard that.

[1:24:52] Voice 14: We asked what can we do about this?

[1:24:54] Voice 14: We said, well, you can change the policy and it's only a neighbor.

[1:24:57] Voice 14: We looked at that and said, well, that doesn't protect privacy.

[1:24:59] Voice 14: Let's expand it out to like 100 meters, which is kind of your neighborhood.

[1:25:02] Voice 14: This

[1:25:02] Voice 5: is one of the more important items that we have in the policy statement is that we're, you know, really driven on is this one here that it can take the boiling temperature down by, you know, if you're not adverse by, you know, adversity affected by it.

[1:25:23] Voice 5: it it's a person at the other end of the lot or the island you know how can it be you know

[1:25:29] Voice 5: you know it has no no impact to that person so well

[1:25:34] Trustee Elliott: it's it's sorry but it isn't just about

[1:25:36] Trustee Elliott: impact person to person so again going back to the object of the trust that we have to unfold

[1:25:43] Trustee Elliott: it is the protection of the environment so if somebody sees something that is

[1:25:48] Trustee Elliott: adversely affecting the environment that is a justified complaint right so i think we would

[1:25:54] Trustee Elliott: have to be careful about well

[1:25:56] Voice 12: it's still yeah

[1:25:57] Voice 6: i'm going to

[1:25:57] Voice 12: stress that okay

[1:25:58] Trustee Elliott: on the

[1:26:01] Trustee Elliott: community or the environment yeah and

[1:26:03] Trustee Elliott: have the adverse impact so what warren's saying is he

[1:26:06] Trustee Elliott: wouldn't advise uh or endorse this um rewording what um we've heard from you that you know

[1:26:16] Trustee Elliott: respecting confidentiality something could be considered 100 meters of the subject property

[1:26:21] Trustee Elliott: i guess my question is how much is it going to put a burden on by law enforcement resources

[1:26:29] Trustee Elliott: to require a demonstration of the alleged contraband invention as an adverse effect impact

[1:26:36] Trustee Elliott: on them or the environment like what so we want a demonstration that this is it's not frivolous it's

[1:26:43] Trustee Elliott: not uh just drive-by complaint it is having an adverse impact but how do they demonstrate that

[1:26:50] Trustee Elliott: especially if you're doing violent enforcement software is that going to require too many steps

[1:26:56] Trustee Elliott: um to confirm that so

[1:26:58] Voice 11: in the end the local trust committee is going to have to define this yeah

[1:27:01] Trustee Elliott: do

[1:27:02] Voice 11: you want just okay complaints from two written complaints from immediate neighbors

[1:27:06] Voice 11: or do you want a distance how are you going to define that what are the extras

[1:27:11] Voice 11: the report will have to give you your options and in the end the local trust committee will say

[1:27:16] okay we're good with the median or you know we want a 200 meter radius will be with satisfied

[1:27:24] concerns

[1:27:24] Voice 11: and then you'll need to put in your exceptions uh like you uh this always anything

[1:27:30] Voice 11: that has an adverse impact on community and the environment you want

[1:27:33] Voice 11: they want more specific

[1:27:38] Voice 11: I mean, those are definitions that can be worked with so that if it's clear, so that okay, yes, we're not going to open up 100 files because someone, I mean, I don't even know if you really want to go that far, but someone from Gabriel can see something happening on Mudge and right now they can submit a complaint and some of those, and it happens because they see work along the waterfront,

[1:28:03] Voice 1: you

[1:28:04] Voice 11: know, they can't work along the waterfront.

[1:28:05] Voice 11: on the waterfront and send back the sea so they're submitting the complaint that is a very legitimate

[1:28:09] Voice 11: complaint yes voters do this as well and they don't have to be an island resident or anything

[1:28:18] Voice 11: like that to submit their complaint so i

[1:28:21] Voice 14: just want to pause for a moment i think what we need

[1:28:26] Voice 14: to understand is intent and focus on the intent because we're not going to be able to focus on

[1:28:33] Voice 14: the wording because as warren has said a couple times he's going to take everything he's learned

[1:28:38] Voice 14: what is the intentions that you want to embrace um and he's going to present it to us and then

[1:28:44] Voice 14: we're going to make decisions and then ultimately when it as it moves along we definitely want to

[1:28:49] Voice 14: hear concurrence or not from you what the final language is and we've come a long way here there's

[1:28:57] Voice 14: more stuff to do we can get lost a little bit in the leads and we want to be careful about that

[1:29:02] Voice 14: because we're not crafting the words today.

[1:29:04] Voice 14: We want to understand where the issues are

[1:29:07] Voice 14: and the problems are.

[1:29:08] Voice 14: Warm, it's all recorded, and good news,

[1:29:11] Voice 14: tell your friends, it's now streaming.

[1:29:13] Voice 14: No, I'm back at my, thank you, IAN,

[1:29:16] Voice 14: for that work,

[1:29:17] Voice 14: and Lisa for being diligent and looking into it.

[1:29:20] Voice 14: But I think, let's focus on intent,

[1:29:23] Voice 14: so that you can then come back to us

[1:29:26] Voice 14: with what you've heard and what is reasonable for us to do.

[1:29:31] Voice 14: I just want to say one more thing which is really significantly important it's kind of

[1:29:35] Voice 14: come up a little bit here is we need to educate everybody neighbors need to talk to neighbors

[1:29:41] Voice 14: and if you can't talk to that neighbor get another neighbor to talk to that neighbor

[1:29:45] Voice 14: to build that sense of community you know maybe I might be totally wrong here but maybe it's a

[1:29:51] Voice 14: tiny little island I'm disconnected from the reality and of the rest of the world and maybe

[1:29:57] Voice 14: you live in isolation. I'm not trying to be rude here.

[1:30:00] Voice 14: anything except then there's an opportunity to build community here and that's what you're doing

[1:30:07] Voice 14: and this is fabulous and and through that by the course we can just step back and manage their own

[1:30:15] Voice 14: problem well

[1:30:15] Voice 7: you say that but in my little we do talk when you know john wanted to do something he

[1:30:26] Voice 7: He went to everybody that was near him and said, how do you feel about this?

[1:30:29] Voice 7: We had to cut down a tree in our property because it was done and it was huge.

[1:30:33] Voice 7: We let everyone know why we're cutting it down and plant some other trees to take the place.

[1:30:38] Voice 7: But it had to come down.

[1:30:39] Voice 7: We talked to our neighbors all the time about what we're doing.

[1:30:42] Voice 7: And still, everyone in our neighborhood, with the exception of maybe one or two people, have been written down.

[1:30:52] Voice 7: yeah so we do have that sense on the edge of community and speaking and you know like

[1:30:58] Voice 7: warren has said in the last meeting he's never seen this before in his history of working that

[1:31:04] Voice 7: there's this many complaints on such a small island so that tells me it's something totally

[1:31:11] Voice 7: different there is something right so what john was saying to stop the that hole that's why we

[1:31:20] Voice 7: have this and we've taken a lot of time in in researching the 100 meters and how that affects

[1:31:26] Voice 7: all the property um it was a quote from warren that you were talking about yeah

[1:31:31] Voice 14: yeah it was the

[1:31:32] Voice 14: first uh first education session when we we asked the question how do we how do we resolve this and

[1:31:38] Voice 14: the suggestion was warren warren was you

[1:31:41] Voice 6: get two complaints from the media yeah i

[1:31:43] Voice 14: think it was one

[1:31:43] Voice 6: of the suggestions that you made that we we really latched

[1:31:46] Voice 14: on and we liked that result

[1:31:48] Voice 14: but then when we batted around we said wow that's going to run up into privacy so what is that what

[1:31:55] Voice 14: does 50

[1:31:55] Voice 5: meters look like

[1:31:56] Voice 16: it's

[1:31:58] Voice 5: the interesting part is you know you've heard us we've heard you

[1:32:01] Voice 5: and the trust has heard it all so yeah amongst

[1:32:05] Voice 5: us i think we're going to find uh the right words

[1:32:09] Voice 5: words. I believe that's going to come. I believe it's going to come. It might take a little

[1:32:13] Voice 5: bit of push and pull here and there, but we're all, I think, on the same page. We've got

[1:32:19] Voice 5: the same goal that we want to achieve. So maybe we just like the septic. We'll wait

[1:32:26] Voice 5: to see what you come back with.

[1:32:28] Voice 3: I'd just like to make a comment. When I read the original, you said we see from at least

[1:32:33] Voice 3: two people on much how do you eliminate it from a husband and wife doing

[1:32:38] Voice 7: related you're talking

[1:32:39] Voice 3: about two people related i think you haven't stopped that complaint or the guy's son is a

[1:32:44] Voice 3: different last name and you know i just kind of yeah that's kind of part of what you're saying

[1:32:48] Voice 3: that's why i don't i like the idea of the uh also the distance because then it does separate

[1:32:53] Voice 3: two separate complaints and two separate people if you have two people can you two people from

[1:32:58] Voice 3: the same lot next door two people down the street their husband and wife decide to create a whole

[1:33:03] Voice 3: a whole bunch of files.

[1:33:04] Voice 3: But doesn't that

[1:33:05] Voice 3: happen on the other end?

[1:33:06] Voice 3: I'm just wondering, how do we solve it?

[1:33:07] Voice 3: I think our idea of the 100 metres kind of solves that problem, because it forces it

[1:33:12] Voice 3: to be two separate, not from the same house, but the same letter.

[1:33:15] Voice 3: It has to be from 100 metres.

[1:33:17] Voice 3: Yeah, yeah.

[1:33:18] Voice 2: It should come, the letter should come from two separate properties.

[1:33:22] Voice 3: Exactly, because two people could gang up in a house and create a whole problem that

[1:33:26] Voice 3: were happening.

[1:33:27] Voice 16: Absolutely.

[1:33:28] Voice 16: You

[1:33:28] Voice 3: know, so that's the concern I have about the wording that Warren wrote.

[1:33:31] Voice 3: That's the only thing I have an issue with.

[1:33:32] Voice 3: So I need to take that into consideration.

[1:33:35] Voice 12: One other thing.

[1:33:37] Voice 12: I'm so sorry.

[1:33:38] Trustee Elliott: No, no, you go ahead.

[1:33:39] Voice 12: I was just, Toby, you mentioned a concern about, you know,

[1:33:44] Voice 12: health and safety and environment, that it is addressed in one way or another.

[1:33:49] Voice 12: So we say you just need one clean environment.

[1:33:54] Voice 12: Right.

[1:33:55] Trustee Elliott: Yes.

[1:33:55] Trustee Elliott: That's great.

[1:33:56] Voice 12: So

[1:33:57] Trustee Elliott: the issue of determining whether this is a frivolous environment,

[1:34:02] Trustee Elliott: uh or repeat the planet um as we've stated many times before and advised we've never had a policy

[1:34:10] Trustee Elliott: on that and so the new draft potential policy of the trust council endorses that would be

[1:34:16] Trustee Elliott: uh no this is a trust council policy

[1:34:20] Trustee Elliott: see what is making on the board yes page seven uh of the agenda page four of the draft the page 70

[1:34:28] Trustee Elliott: 57 so frivolous repeat or vexatious stance so what i want to caution you we're not going to

[1:34:36] Trustee Elliott: drill so deeply into making the ltc policy so specific that we unnecessarily task by law

[1:34:45] Trustee Elliott: enforcement with just trying to like okay figure out the conditions under which this complaint

[1:34:52] Trustee Elliott: should be investigated that is going to waste as much time and energy and resources as this

[1:34:58] Trustee Elliott: whole state has so we don't want to close the loop so much that we end up with you know sphincter

[1:35:04] Trustee Elliott: problems but this

[1:35:06] Voice 15: is the moment

[1:35:07] Trustee Elliott: so it is but uh sorry going back to this draft potential policy

[1:35:13] Trustee Elliott: Policy 5.5.1

[1:35:16] Voice 9: would

[1:35:17] Trustee Elliott: address a frivolous repeater of vexatious complaints with a new section.

[1:35:22] Trustee Elliott: Investigations and enforcement files may not be opened if a complaint is considered vexatious.

[1:35:28] Trustee Elliott: And there's a definition there.

[1:35:29] Trustee Elliott: And then persons may be declared vexatious complainants if the director of client services

[1:35:35] Trustee Elliott: and the manager of file of compliance and enforcement concur.

[1:35:38] Trustee Elliott: And the vexatious complainant would be advised that no further submissions would be accepted from them.

[1:35:42] Trustee Elliott: So somewhere we're going to love to strike a balance with an overall policy that gives discretion, number one, to staff, and definitions of what is vexatious, frivolous, or repeat.

[1:35:55] Trustee Elliott: Do we want to drill so tightly down into our LTC policy that really we have no, you know, it's so limiting that it's ineffective?

[1:36:07] Trustee Elliott: And so that's where I think we'll encourage your input on that.

[1:36:13] Trustee Elliott: It's right here in the draft.

[1:36:15] Trustee Elliott: Warren's going to give us advice, and then we'll have to make a decision.

[1:36:17] Trustee Elliott: What's the right thought?

[1:36:19] Voice 14: Warren's told us over and over again that these complaints are not vexatious.

[1:36:25] Trustee Elliott: So, yeah, that's...

[1:36:28] Trustee Elliott: Well, we didn't have a definition for vexatious.

[1:36:31] Voice 14: Obviously, he knew what was in the draft,

[1:36:33] Voice 14: so he's probably working for that, a definite A definition.

[1:36:37] Voice 14: But he's told us over and over these are not vexatious.

[1:36:40] Voice 14: Okay, let's be...

[1:36:41] Trustee Elliott: This is a working program, right?

[1:36:43] Trustee Elliott: right and we're all learning so i don't know um do you still found by that that you wouldn't

[1:36:50] Trustee Elliott: have considered those complaints vexations absolutely

[1:36:53] Voice 11: they're not they're not vexations

[1:36:54] Voice 11: the courts have a fairly clear definition of what they say the complaints are actually made

[1:37:02] Voice 11: about to characterize the summit as a good if not excellent knowledge of local government bylaws

[1:37:09] Voice 11: Now, and certain regulations like SEPIC regulations, so they've referenced a lot of complaints

[1:37:15] Voice 11: that we can't issue, we can't deal with, like no building permit, right, not in our jurisdiction,

[1:37:19] Voice 11: or it's unsightly, not in our jurisdiction, all that's already in.

[1:37:24] Voice 11: So they're well aware of what bylaws have to be respected within an urban area, Vancouver,

[1:37:30] Victoria, whatever, that's, they're

[1:37:33] Voice 11: all into this saying, okay, this is a contravention.

[1:37:36] Voice 11: and i'm saying that they're they're running right i can't go through any of it and say that they're

[1:37:43] Voice 11: that they're wrong just based on the information of the statements that they make right they

[1:37:47] Voice 11: obviously know our game are familiar they're owning their own property somewhere else these

[1:37:54] Voice 11: will come to mean a local government bylaw okay and

[1:37:57] Voice 11: that's they brought up all these issues even

[1:37:59] Voice 6: from the speculatory

[1:38:02] Voice 6: complaints?

[1:38:03] Voice 11: So which ones do you think are...

[1:38:05] Voice 6: Well, there are some. I mean, I'd have to go through the

[1:38:07] Voice 6: FOIs, but I mean, there's

[1:38:09] Voice 6: like Scott pointed out, there's quite a few

[1:38:11] Voice 6: that speculate that there

[1:38:13] Voice 6: may not be this and there may not be that.

[1:38:16] Voice 6: They may be doing this

[1:38:17] Voice 6: wrong. They might be doing that incorrectly.

[1:38:20] Voice 11: So when

[1:38:21] Voice 11: like really, if you read a vexatious

[1:38:23] Voice 11: complaint, it's kind of clear.

[1:38:25] Voice 11: There's a tone to it. There's a language

[1:38:27] Voice 11: used. And

[1:38:29] Voice 11: And if you talk to the complainant, some of them will just admit it.

[1:38:33] Voice 11: They'll say, I've got a beef with that guy.

[1:38:35] Voice 11: Okay.

[1:38:35] Voice 11: Right now, I can't say I'm not opening the file.

[1:38:39] Voice 11: In the future, since we've all adopted, I can say, thank you very much.

[1:38:43] Voice 11: You're a vexatious complainant.

[1:38:45] Voice 11: I'm not opening the file.

[1:38:47] Voice 11: Right now, the only way I can do that is if you've already investigated

[1:38:50] Voice 11: their complaints against someone else.

[1:38:53] Voice 11: There's no contradictions.

[1:38:54] Voice 11: I say, okay, we've done this already.

[1:38:56] Voice 11: just being vexatious because you don't like what the neighbors are doing or you have a personal

[1:39:01] Voice 11: dispute with them.

[1:39:02] Voice 6: So it couldn't be done in the first uh go through with that complainant

[1:39:07] Voice 6: it would have to be after you've dealt with that complainant half a dozen times. With the new

[1:39:11] Voice 6: policy I

[1:39:13] Voice 11: know there will be complaints that I won't have to open up anymore because I have a

[1:39:18] Voice 11: policy that says I'm not to do that because it is either frivolous you know they've submitted

[1:39:25] Voice 11: they didn't have a submitted PPP in place before,

[1:39:27] Voice 11: or is this clearly vexatious?

[1:39:29] Voice 11: And as Chair Luckin has said,

[1:39:30] Voice 11: the courts have served definitions of what is vexatious.

[1:39:34] Voice 11: So I can use all that to say,

[1:39:36] Voice 11: okay, I'm not going to open up your 10 files today.

[1:39:39] Voice 11: And there are people who are subject to bylaw enforcement

[1:39:41] Voice 11: who say, okay, you open up a file on me,

[1:39:43] Voice 11: I'm going to go and complain about 10 papers.

[1:39:46] Voice 11: I'm not going to accept those in the future.

[1:39:49] Voice 11: It's happening.

[1:39:49] Voice 11: For the most part, it doesn't happen.

[1:39:51] Voice 11: It has happened in the past.

[1:39:52] Voice 11: and if someone in the future you won't do that i'm sorry in the future you're saying no you told

[1:39:59] Voice 11: me this is going to be a retaliatory complaint so i'm not opening it up it

[1:40:04] Voice 14: doesn't indicate it

[1:40:05] Voice 14: has to be retaliated it could be to annoy or to harass or to otherwise irritate any person

[1:40:12] Voice 14: yeah

[1:40:13] Voice 15: and

[1:40:14] Voice 14: these are clearly designed to

[1:40:16] Voice 5: irritate the war and i you know with all respect and

[1:40:21] Voice 5: probably agree to disagree that it's fixations or not um you know that's probably open for

[1:40:27] Voice 5: interpretation but a lot of the complaints they're they're they're very much targeted

[1:40:32] Voice 5: um they all came in in one batch um they uh a lot of the complaints uh are speculative

[1:40:43] Voice 5: speculative so you know just under you know that uh framework you know we we feel that it's you

[1:40:52] Voice 5: know the community feels that it was fixatious and it may not perfectly fit the court definition

[1:40:59] Voice 5: um but it's it's you know it's and and and the problem with it too is the fairness of it

[1:41:07] Voice 5: is is a complaint comes in against this house and the neighbor has something even more egregious

[1:41:14] Voice 5: and there is no fairness in the complaint you know then you know and and you go why did he get it

[1:41:23] Voice 5: and the neighbor right next door has an obvious issue and he didn't

[1:41:28] Trustee Elliott: this is a very imperfect

[1:41:30] Trustee Elliott: system so so we're not going to pretend that we're judging jury and going to be able to oversee a

[1:41:37] Trustee Elliott: perfect perfectly fair system what we're trying to do is identify the biggest

[1:41:42] Trustee Elliott: biggest problems and how do we address it and again this will be a living document we're going

[1:41:47] Trustee Elliott: to come back to it we're going to continue the conversation so i i know i recognize that there

[1:41:52] Trustee Elliott: is a lack of fairness but we're not judging jury here and we've got

[1:41:56] Trustee Elliott: someone in the community who

[1:41:58] Trustee Elliott: clearly feels that there is enough justification for you know or a few people that they've made

[1:42:05] Trustee Elliott: this rational complaint so how do we bring it down to what's reasonable and address the biggest

[1:42:10] Trustee Elliott: issues yeah and

[1:42:12] Voice 14: hence our yeah our rationalization that's why we're rationalizing literally and

[1:42:16] Voice 14: suggestive because it's really the much has been that kind of an island where people help each

[1:42:23] Voice 14: other and people work together that's that social contract's been threatened very very badly and

[1:42:30] Voice 14: and i think that what we're trying to do is is get it back to that

[1:42:35] Voice 9: happy

[1:42:36] Voice 14: little place where

[1:42:38] Voice 14: if people have a problem they work together and solve it as opposed to somebody who's running

[1:42:44] Voice 14: around creating problems right

[1:42:46] Trustee Elliott: and we don't want to be interfering at the ltc to be that

[1:42:50] Trustee Elliott: arbitrator of community to community and neighbor to neighbor issues we really want to leave that's

[1:42:57] Voice 16: why

[1:42:57] Voice 3: we're trying to that's why we're trying to create

[1:42:58] Voice 3: it that it's your neighbor i know i'm

[1:43:00] Voice 16: speaking that term but i think

[1:43:02] Voice 3: i think the issue i have is it's almost like a weapon by

[1:43:05] Voice 3: and utilizing the, you know,

[1:43:09] Voice 3: bylaw process to get back at the island

[1:43:12] Voice 3: or get back at certain people.

[1:43:13] Voice 3: And that's kind of the issue

[1:43:15] Voice 3: with these last few months

[1:43:16] Voice 3: that we've had a ton of them.

[1:43:17] Voice 3: It's so obvious, you know,

[1:43:19] Voice 3: and there's no mechanism to prevent that.

[1:43:22] Voice 3: That's why we all seem to think

[1:43:23] Voice 3: it sits on the fictitious spectrum

[1:43:27] Voice 3: of what's going on.

[1:43:29] Voice 16: This

[1:43:30] Voice 5: person, you know,

[1:43:31] Voice 5: and the complainant has,

[1:43:32] Voice 5: as you indicated, Warren,

[1:43:34] Voice 5: is extremely familiar with the bylaw

[1:43:37] Voice 5: and has drilled down to some very obscure bylaw components

[1:43:48] Voice 5: that are setbacks are one thing,

[1:43:51] Voice 5: but drilling down to the more obscure bylaw components

[1:43:55] Voice 5: and finally complains on it.

[1:43:59] you know and then and

[1:44:01] Voice 5: that's how we get to the you know our uh thought of this being vexatious

[1:44:08] Voice 5: you know is is they've read this bylaw forward backwards upside down and that's

[1:44:14] Voice 5: fine it's totally

[1:44:16] Voice 5: fine that that's but they're some of the more unusual aspects of the bylaw that they want

[1:44:23] Voice 5: enforced and that's that's where the

[1:44:28] Voice 14: concern is so i don't forget your name the parliament's been

[1:44:32] Voice 14: very kind and has had his hands up quite a bit and i think we need to manage the conversation

[1:44:36] Voice 14: a little bit better yeah and i'm trying not to interfere with the dialogue that you're having

[1:44:41] Voice 14: it's very important but i also think we can maybe move on to some other topics because i think we

[1:44:48] Voice 14: get it and we can't write and craft bylaws or policy for unusual circumstances of which this

[1:44:58] Voice 14: we've already identified we know this is unusual it's not a common thing that happens and certainly

[1:45:05] Voice 14: we're going to do our best to have new policy that embraces protecting everybody against

[1:45:11] Voice 14: weaponization and fixatiousness and all the rest of it but we can't write it to do everything the

[1:45:17] Voice 14: that it would be completely restrictive that's not in anybody's best interest so i would suggest

[1:45:23] Voice 14: given the time that's remaining personally it's allocated um if there's other issues we should

[1:45:29] Voice 14: move on to that but i just want to recognize your friend and neighbor here okay

[1:45:33] Voice 2: so like i just

[1:45:35] Voice 2: wanted to touch on um like warren mentioned um you know he could tell from the language in the

[1:45:40] Voice 2: complaint letter um you know whether someone seems like maybe they've got an axe to grind or you know

[1:45:46] Voice 2: something like that um so i want to share with you the complaint letter parts of it that were

[1:45:52] Voice 2: written about me and it'll only take a minute it's just a couple paragraphs and some of it

[1:45:58] Voice 2: it veers way away from discussing actual bylaw infraction and infractions to actually

[1:46:07] Voice 2: straight into defamation and character assassination of myself which has now been

[1:46:16] Voice 2: been read by bylaw, which now puts me in a difficult position of having to have an inspection

[1:46:23] Voice 2: from someone who may have a preconceived notion of my character from what's been written about me.

[1:46:30] Voice 2: So the homeowner is a staunch opponent of the Islands Trust and vocal about his disdain for

[1:46:36] Voice 2: the trust. He has been actively breaking bylaws and much for over a decade. And frankly, it's sad

[1:46:42] Voice 2: he should be ashamed of his lack of environmental stewardship.

[1:46:50] Voice 2: The

[1:46:50] Voice 2: island's trust and other governing bodies that are tasked with protecting the island.

[1:46:55] Voice 2: He constantly promotes residents, current and new, to not bother

[1:46:58] Voice 2: following any by-law rules or rules by any other governing

[1:47:03] Voice 2: organizations. The exact same wording was used.

[1:47:06] Voice 2: Now, I'm very community-minded.

[1:47:10] Voice 2: it i am president of our other society which runs fire equipment and emergency services this hurt me

[1:47:17] Voice 2: to the core and i feel like i'm sorry i'm shaking but this is very upsetting to me and it paints me

[1:47:25] Voice 2: in a very bad light to someone who doesn't even know me it's off topic and that in my mind is

[1:47:32] Voice 2: vexatious and

[1:47:34] Voice 14: so i'll just say i'm sorry you hadn't received that but i can assure you that

[1:47:37] Voice 14: myself and warren would look at that and with a grain of salt just go

[1:47:41] Voice 9: well

[1:47:42] Voice 2: that's the language

[1:47:43] Voice 2: yeah that in my mind is reeking of vexatiousness yeah

[1:47:48] Voice 14: um yeah that's right we can choose to disagree

[1:47:52] Voice 14: on that word because of our experience but it's one of these uh susan you've had your hand up

[1:48:01] Voice 14: well

[1:48:01] Trustee Elliott: i just wanted to say that it's it's just so inappropriate and i know that our my law

[1:48:05] Trustee Elliott: enforcement officer and our enforcement manager would not um consider those comments that are

[1:48:16] Voice 2: so it's oh it's in the brain whether you think you're being affected by it or not

[1:48:21] Voice 2: it has been read and it's not in your head yeah you can't like so yeah

[1:48:26] Voice 2: understand so

[1:48:28] Trustee Elliott: let's um if vectations isn't the right word but someone has

[1:48:39] Trustee Elliott: they're characterizing the complaint is coming because they have a personal view

[1:48:45] Trustee Elliott: of the person and it's maybe your property is concerned about how you live your life and

[1:48:52] Trustee Elliott: they're really offended by the things that you do and therefore the only recourse to them is

[1:48:57] Trustee Elliott: well i'm going to consider the ltc about this property right so if we're not going to consider

[1:49:02] Trustee Elliott: that fixation what is it it's it's frivolous is it unfair is it like how and and so so i'm

[1:49:13] Trustee Elliott: looking for remedies i'm looking for you know and this is a very specific problem and i appreciate

[1:49:18] Trustee Elliott: you bringing that up so where we can uh exercise discretion is the ltc and ask well what is the

[1:49:26] Trustee Elliott: nature of all these complaints we can get reports from law enforcement and do we need to ask you

[1:49:34] Trustee Elliott: know um are the complaints just about the environment are they personal is there here to be

[1:49:41] Trustee Elliott: a vendetta and then we can direct them to dismiss it we can't tell people how to write the letters

[1:49:51] Trustee Elliott: and i'm sorry that that happened but i'm trying to look for is is that would that be covered under

[1:49:56] Trustee Elliott: they're vexatious, frivolous, or repeat, just because.

[1:50:02] Voice 13: I think we should leave this to by-law enforcement

[1:50:05] Voice 13: to come back to us with a recommendation on how we-

[1:50:08] Voice 13: One of our suggestions- Personal attaches,

[1:50:11] Voice 13: probably in fact, go ahead.

[1:50:12] Voice 12: One of our suggestions which touches on the drive-by

[1:50:16] nature is that in 8.1, we say complaints that are false,

[1:50:21] false, made in bad faith,

[1:50:23] Voice 12: made for an improper purpose.

[1:50:26] Voice 16: Okay.

[1:50:26] Voice 16: And we

[1:50:27] Voice 12: think that it's made for an improper purpose kind of touches on someone who lost

[1:50:32] Voice 12: his 54 complaints in three months.

[1:50:36] Voice 12: It's not because they're good citizens,

[1:50:41] Voice 14: we're not supposed to judge, but there's something

[1:50:47] Voice 14: odd.

[1:50:49] Voice 15: I

[1:50:50] Voice 14: think it would be great. It's a challenge. It's also rare and unusual.

[1:50:56] Trustee Elliott: So 8.1, complaints that are false. Just wanting to understand, I mean, you can't understand

[1:51:06] Trustee Elliott: if it's false unless you do an investigation. We've already covered this off.

[1:51:10] Voice 16: That's true, yeah.

[1:51:11] Trustee Elliott: You know, you've got to investigate in order to know is this true or is it false. I would

[1:51:17] Trustee Elliott: say that probably is not useful because if it's false it's going to be dismissed and that's

[1:51:23] Trustee Elliott: covered elsewhere um closing investigations by a lot of investigation files can be closed notice

[1:51:30] Trustee Elliott: to be given in the following circumstances if no contravention existed so if the complaint's false

[1:51:36] Trustee Elliott: no contravention existed i don't think you need that for them but made in bad debate how do you

[1:51:42] Trustee Elliott: determine that and this is actually your wording warren there was no

[1:51:47] Voice 13: change to that so

[1:51:50] Voice 11: the first

[1:51:52] Voice 11: point i would like to make with scott was that in the complaint was that follow-up that

[1:51:57] Voice 2: was the that

[1:51:58] Voice 2: was uh received from my foi that is the actual complaint letter received by your you know from

[1:52:06] Voice 2: From my memory, it was a follow-up email.

[1:52:10] Voice 2: I mean, in the package that I got from FOI,

[1:52:13] Voice 2: that's the only complaint letter from my property.

[1:52:17] Voice 2: So from my memory,

[1:52:20] Voice 11: there was nothing vexation about the original complaint,

[1:52:23] but

[1:52:23] Voice 11: they adopted a new policy,

[1:52:26] Voice 11: and there's a subsequent email that would contain language like that,

[1:52:30] Voice 11: then you wouldn't proceed on enforcement because now, okay,

[1:52:33] Voice 11: this appears to be vexations that would be covered by these policies.

[1:52:38] Voice 11: right? And there are in these complaints that are submitted, there are times when you see that

[1:52:48] Voice 11: there's obviously false information, right? Or they're, they're, whatever. You can see that

[1:52:54] Voice 11: because you can open up the file, you can start looking for information on the property and

[1:52:59] Voice 11: there are times, okay, yeah, that it's not true. Okay.

[1:53:03] Voice 11: Um, you know, people make mistakes,

[1:53:07] Voice 11: takes they make errors and you know where they can say okay this property owner's never applied

[1:53:12] Voice 11: for any building so i can go into the system say they've got three building referrals for this

[1:53:17] Voice 11: property so i know that's not true

[1:53:19] Voice 9: okay if

[1:53:20] Voice 11: you have the new policy okay i know that's not true

[1:53:23] Voice 11: there's no need for me to proceed here on you know whatever concerns they have about building

[1:53:28] Voice 11: permits and citing uh because it's been reviewed by planning staff doesn't mean i mean it's a

[1:53:34] Voice 11: a common complaint can

[1:53:36] Voice 6: i ask a question yeah um would is there any consideration to it being

[1:53:43] Voice 6: vexatious if they copied and pasted a certain letter verbatim and they just kept punching that

[1:53:50] Voice 6: letter out more than once the exact same wording because i got the exact same letter the only

[1:53:56] Voice 6: difference was the name. One said Scott

[1:54:00] Voice 6: Fleming, one said Chad Giesbrecht.

[1:54:02] Voice 6: Everything is verbatim. They're copying and pasting. So

[1:54:06] Voice 11: people have done that but on a

[1:54:08] Voice 11: much higher volume. I

[1:54:10] Voice 11: actually haven't opened those.

[1:54:12] Voice 6: Would that be considered vexation?

[1:54:14] Voice 11: Yes, absolutely. I mean there are times when I have said okay I'm just not going to

[1:54:18] Voice 11: proceed on these even though I don't have a policy saying I'm not supposed to do that.

[1:54:22] Voice 11: but there are certain times okay i'm not going to do this i'm contributing policy i shouldn't be

[1:54:30] Voice 11: doing it but it's all come down to here's an opportunity to ensure that we have these policies

[1:54:35] Voice 11: adopted and one of the things with these cut and paste uh when they do this large volume of it

[1:54:41] Voice 11: you know sometimes it's they're clearly anonymous right they're using a fake name and so i can't

[1:54:50] Voice 11: proves that this is a personal. I don't believe this

[1:54:52] Voice 11: I've got a real identity. I just

[1:54:54] Voice 11: consider it anonymous and I'm not

[1:54:56] Voice 11: going to open it up.

[1:54:57] Voice 16: Now

[1:54:58] Voice 11: this will establish in policy

[1:55:01] Voice 11: even better

[1:55:02] Voice 11: when we

[1:55:03] Voice 11: will not open up these files.

[1:55:06] Voice 6: Because there was a file opened on me and there

[1:55:08] Voice 6: was one opened on Scott and the letter

[1:55:10] Voice 6: is identical.

[1:55:12] Voice 6: So ours would be at least

[1:55:14] Voice 6: in that circumstance considered taxation.

[1:55:16] Voice 11: So I don't recall

[1:55:18] Voice 11: all reviewing identical wording but i could certainly look at them i've read them both

[1:55:23] Voice 11: and once the policies are dotted if you're what you're saying is they're exactly identical

[1:55:28] Voice 11: and you have grounds to say we don't need to pursue any further because someone is

[1:55:33] Voice 11: you know just cutting the base and it's frivolous or i think that's

[1:55:38] Voice 6: reasonable yeah

[1:55:40] Voice 14: and we are

[1:55:40] Voice 14: learning and what's happened in the last four months is not going to repeat itself as far as

[1:55:48] Trustee Elliott: There's a comment on the term bad faith.

[1:55:51] Trustee Elliott: I think bad faith is a good term

[1:55:53] Trustee Elliott: because it means that you're doing something

[1:55:55] Trustee Elliott: without integrity.

[1:55:56] Trustee Elliott: So you're submitting a complaint

[1:55:58] Trustee Elliott: and it's not actually about that property.

[1:56:00] Trustee Elliott: It's about that person.

[1:56:01] Trustee Elliott: That's really bad faith.

[1:56:02] Trustee Elliott: So it's not retaliatory.

[1:56:04] Trustee Elliott: It's different than that.

[1:56:06] Trustee Elliott: But they do come on to become,

[1:56:09] Trustee Elliott: either one of them can keep backstage.

[1:56:11] Trustee Elliott: I have a question about this for a proper purpose.

[1:56:14] Trustee Elliott: Yeah.

[1:56:15] Trustee Elliott: Yeah,

[1:56:15] Voice 5: and one of the other problems that we're seeing, and I just touched on earlier,

[1:56:21] Voice 5: was, you know, you get a person that suspects there's an issue.

[1:56:27] Voice 5: And one of the big problems we have is the site coverage.

[1:56:31] Voice 5: And I won't get into that, but, you know, a complaint is made that says,

[1:56:38] Voice 5: I suspect he's exceeding site coverage.

[1:56:42] Voice 5: and the respondent receives that

[1:56:46] Voice 5: and now he's in a bit of a pickle

[1:56:49] Voice 5: is not only the person drives by and says,

[1:56:54] Voice 5: I suspect he has a short-term rental or site coverage.

[1:57:01] Voice 5: Now that person is put into a position

[1:57:03] Voice 5: for potentially a significant amount of cost

[1:57:07] Voice 5: to prove that maybe he doesn't or that he does comply with site coverage and it's it's it's a

[1:57:18] Voice 5: problem as well so a lot of these complaints going through them i suspect i suspect this i suspect

[1:57:25] Voice 5: that so now the burden is put on you know the the property owner to you know to to defend himself

[1:57:33] Voice 5: self and that's a problem.

[1:57:37] Voice 11: But that's an entirely legitimate complaint. The person submitting the

[1:57:41] Voice 11: complaint, as some of them I have to tell them repeatedly, we're only taking your complaint about

[1:57:47] Voice 11: what you suspect or believe is going on. Some of them want to say okay I need to, I need this

[1:57:53] Voice 11: information, I need that information to confirm whether or not there's a contravention and in the

[1:57:58] Voice 11: the end I tell them I don't want you doing my union job that's my union job you believe there's

[1:58:04] Voice 11: something wrong here I take a complaint I investigate it or a bylaw officer investigates

[1:58:09] Voice 11: and then they confirm whether or not there's a contravention or not but everyone's submitting

[1:58:14] Voice 11: a complaint it's just their suspicion they're not expected to know the land use bylaw they're

[1:58:20] Voice 15: not

[1:58:20] Voice 11: expected to know the law they witness something that is of concern to them and the

[1:58:25] Voice 11: the website says report a concern so they're reporting the concern and it's up to staff

[1:58:30] Voice 11: to do the work to determine whether or not it's contravention now

[1:58:34] Voice 5: when it's embedded in the 53

[1:58:36] Voice 5: similar complaints i suspect it it becomes vexations well

[1:58:42] Trustee Elliott: that's 8.2 repeated complaints

[1:58:44] Trustee Elliott: are part of a pattern of conduct by the complaint that amount to an abuse of the complaint process

[1:58:49] Trustee Elliott: may be considered frivolous or vexatious.

[1:58:52] Trustee Elliott: So I think that is addressed, it's identified,

[1:58:56] Trustee Elliott: this is a pattern, and it's abusing the complaints process.

[1:58:59] Trustee Elliott: That is ground for dismissing.

[1:59:02] Voice 2: But I mean, it's not considered abusing

[1:59:05] Voice 2: the complaints process because Warren just said himself,

[1:59:09] Voice 2: I mean, one of the people responsible

[1:59:12] Voice 2: for a large number of these letters

[1:59:14] Voice 2: is very well-versed in by-law,

[1:59:17] Voice 2: uh whether it be rdn islands trust island health like all the authorities and and so they're just

[1:59:26] Voice 2: like saying they're just naming whatever they want on whatever properties they feel like targeting

[1:59:32] Voice 2: at the time and so like they're considered okay uh complaints because they fit the you know the

[1:59:42] Voice 2: the template, but you know, but if one person is randomly targeting, and I know it's more

[1:59:51] Voice 2: than one person, but we also do know that one or two people are actually responsible

[1:59:57] Voice 2: responsible for the large.

[2:00:00] Voice 2: number of these complaints and just because they're well versed in rules and bylaws and and

[2:00:07] Voice 2: they so they've taken it upon themselves to go on a mission to call out as many people as they can

[2:00:14] Voice 2: that they think might be in contravention so i think we're continuing

[2:00:20] Voice 14: to revolve around the same

[2:00:21] Voice 14: fundamental yeah yeah and uh honestly i think we could move on and i'm going to suggest we have a

[2:00:31] Voice 14: break at you know we're gonna have this almost too long can

[2:00:34] Voice 7: i just one thing before we do it

[2:00:36] Voice 7: thank you just for clarity for me because i'm really trying to keep what the bylaw officers

[2:00:43] Voice 7: can and will look at and what they won't and just a few minutes ago warren said if i get a bunch of

[2:00:52] Voice 7: complaints about building permits i'm gonna look on the file and see if the permits are there

[2:00:57] Voice 7: and then i'll close the file but i also heard earlier this morning that building permits

[2:01:03] Voice 7: aren't under your umbrella things to investigate so those are two you tell me that you will

[2:01:10] Voice 7: investigate but two minutes or 10 minutes ago you said i will look at it and i'll see if a permit

[2:01:16] Voice 7: has been pulled i mean there was that i would investigate so i'm confused so

[2:01:21] Voice 11: if a complaint

[2:01:21] Voice 11: comes in and the only concern is with lack of a building permit not going to open up we can't open

[2:01:27] Voice 11: to file it's not a land use issue okay i'm telling them to go to the regional district

[2:01:32] Voice 11: if however they use the word signing i'm concerned about whether they're going to

[2:01:37] Voice 11: permit without the sightings law whether or not the sighting is lawful is a land use

[2:01:43] Voice 11: regulation right part a maybe none of our business jurisdiction part b is

[2:01:51] Voice 11: but there are lots of complaints like this and we even get you know we'll go to that part lots of

[2:01:59] complaints come in it doesn't have a

[2:02:00] Voice 11: building okay you have to go to the regional district

[2:02:05] Voice 11: and you know sort of do the back and forth with them first and then tell them what they say and

[2:02:11] Voice 11: then come back to me and i'll explain it to them the whole process and leave the regional

[2:02:15] Voice 11: districts get confused or they haven't done the referral with you first well they're actually

[2:02:20] Voice 11: supposed to start with you guys and then you send us the referral blah blah blah there's confusion

[2:02:24] but it's just what building work if it's just about whether or not they have a permit for

[2:02:28] the setting system it's not our jurisdiction

[2:02:31] Voice 11: and those files aren't open because it doesn't

[2:02:34] Voice 11: reference uh island stress violence whether land is followed or a soil wildlife okay

[2:02:43] Voice 14: can we have a

[2:02:43] Voice 14: 15 minute break absolutely you know they have a union right to have one break and um and maybe

[2:02:51] Voice 14: we can move on to some other welcome back to the gabrielle meeting but um we've had a great

[2:03:01] Voice 14: conversation so far this morning let us continue um i have been back to rich and said what's the

[2:03:07] Voice 14: the next one. I guess it's inspection, isn't it? Yeah,

[2:03:12] yeah. So we have some suggestions.

[2:03:15] Voice 12: That's some

[2:03:16] Voice 12: suggested inclusions to the policy on inspection, which is

[2:03:21] Voice 12: section five. And

[2:03:23] Voice 12: these should be not controversial. They all

[2:03:27] Voice 12: come out of the August report.

[2:03:29] Voice 12: report and we've been trying to do

[2:03:32] Voice 14: so what page are we on second five sorry it's 81 81.

[2:03:58] because

[2:04:01] Voice 11: it was what went to rbc

[2:04:03] Voice 11: no that

[2:04:05] Trustee Elliott: was from our agenda that they read mine

[2:04:07] Trustee Elliott: Okay. Yeah, let's go.

[2:04:13] Voice 12: So we just added some things that came from the young person's report. So one of them is before conducting an inspection, the bylaw enforcement officer will determine whether it's possible to allow a resident to comply with the bylaw without the need for an inspection.

[2:04:33] Voice 4: So is there any objection to that?

[2:04:39] Voice 11: Well, I don't know what you're recommending Jeremy do already.

[2:04:41] Voice 11: it

[2:04:42] Voice 9: yeah this

[2:04:43] Voice 11: is it's nothing errors unreasonable and a lot of standard practice it's not necessarily

[2:04:47] Voice 11: articulated in a document but the purpose of sending out the notice letter to everyone to

[2:04:52] Voice 11: start a conversation so that we can go through the issues go to the property if necessary

[2:04:58] Voice 11: sometimes it's not necessary and then do the inspection on a mutually agreeable day and time

[2:05:07] And then proceed. So, you know, Mike, I don't want to say this is all the best language, but there's no objection to it.

[2:05:18] Voice 11: And in the end, again, it needs to be up to the LPC to say, you know, what does the by-law officer want to see on this?

[2:05:27] Voice 11: Right now, the policy, if we go to a property and there's something that requires a permit from Island Trust, we enforce.

[2:05:34] That could be up to the LTC to say, no, don't worry about your, I mean, actually, if we're

[2:05:42] there for a use, yes, we would.

[2:05:46] Voice 11: If we're there looking at a use and we see something that is a major contravention that

[2:05:50] Voice 11: requires a development of variance permit, we would proceed with enforcement.

[2:05:54] Voice 11: But that could be up to the LTC on how, whether or not they want us to have a narrow view

[2:05:59] for a fraud, whether or not they want us to say, yeah, it requires a permit.

[2:06:04] enforcement. I think they might be examples where they

[2:06:07] Voice 11: don't enforce on every DPT requirement,

[2:06:12] but the standard is for requires a development permit, which means it's an environmentally

[2:06:18] sensitive area where you've got to pursue, okay, you need a permit for that. But in my case,

[2:06:24] you don't have development permit areas. So for the most part, this language isn't

[2:06:30] Voice 11: say controversially we'll work on it providing staff all the best so it communicates what we

[2:06:40] want effectively but

[2:06:42] Voice 11: in the end it'll be up to the lpc so you want to keep it to the specifics

[2:06:46] Voice 11: of the complaint or you want to have a broader view and stick with the standard if it requires

[2:06:50] Voice 11: a permit yes please enforce

[2:06:53] Voice 12: okay well one of the one of the suggestions and the last one

[2:07:00] Voice 12: is when conducting an inspection by law enforcement officers

[2:07:04] Voice 12: must be as minimally intrusive as possible.

[2:07:08] Voice 12: Only inspect what's relevant to the bylaw being enforced

[2:07:11] and complete the inspection in a reasonable amount of time.

[2:07:17] And I think in the

[2:07:19] Voice 12: July 16th meeting where you were virtual,

[2:07:24] Voice 12: but I think you said that's what you would do.

[2:07:28] Voice 12: um we've heard some reports from some folks on much that that's not the case when you folks were

[2:07:35] Voice 12: over there to investigate things you were asking to have a peek inside bunk houses and and that

[2:07:44] Voice 12: sort of thing nigel

[2:07:45] Voice 14: yeah there was one uh again with a specific complaint it was uh it was a

[2:07:50] Voice 14: it was a complaint letter or the letter that the person received was around setbacks and then

[2:07:57] Voice 14: you know when the violence factors were on there they said hey can i look inside that i don't want

[2:08:02] Voice 14: to look inside that building let me look inside there and you know it was the other house and

[2:08:06] Voice 14: then also said i want to see that monkey make sure there's no kitchen in there so it's gone outside

[2:08:11] Voice 14: the scope of what was in the letter just

[2:08:16] Voice 11: say i was there so no that's not what was said and two

[2:08:24] Voice 11: going forward this would be the policy and if the LDC wants to say okay you take a very specific

[2:08:33] Voice 11: there's a very specific scope of investigation to what's listed in the complaint

[2:08:37] Voice 11: or you pursue things that are that like we've been doing for decades or requires a permit

[2:08:45] Voice 11: it we had four songs so i don't recall yeah there was i asked someone a question about their bunkie

[2:08:58] Voice 11: i don't recall anyone asking to see inside either an outhouse or a bunkie

[2:09:04] Voice 11: so this is the policy going forward and in the end for the most part i don't see a lot

[2:09:12] Voice 11: of major edits there might be some but there's nothing unreasonable here really it's standard

[2:09:19] Voice 14: practice so you can embrace this and maybe articulate it in a way that is more appropriate

[2:09:25] Voice 14: absolutely yeah yeah

[2:09:28] Voice 12: yeah we we just pulled the language straight up

[2:09:33] Voice 5: so how would that work is if you're looking at the one specific property and

[2:09:40] Voice 5: And, you know, there's some issues or complaining and right next door, there's something that's blatantly outside, whether it be set back or, or anything.

[2:09:50] Voice 5: Well, how would you, how, and

[2:09:53] Voice 11: there's no complaint on that property.

[2:09:54] Voice 11: There's nothing we can do about it unless there's a trust council policy that says we can pursue horsemen because it requires a development permit or there's structures where they set back from water for the seat or some other part of the agency.

[2:10:09] Voice 11: safety or health and safety yes so much does not require any development permits is that right

[2:10:18] Voice 11: you've got no development permit and a development permit is it's usually for environmentally

[2:10:26] Voice 11: sensitive areas there are some islands that have development permits for uh commercial areas

[2:10:31] Voice 11: industrial areas, cultural heritage areas, as an example, but I mean, you might have one like that.

[2:10:41] Voice 11: But there's nothing on much, so you don't require a development permit from Island Trust to

[2:10:46] Voice 11: develop your property, which a lot of people think. You can go and cut down the trees, you can go and

[2:10:51] Voice 11: clear it to build on it, you don't need a permit from Island Trust to do that. If you're building

[2:10:56] permits from the R&D end, you're supposed to get the permit

[2:10:59] Voice 11: from the R&D end and the permit for

[2:11:00] Voice 11: your septic but actually developing the lot so you want to cut down all the trees make it weird

[2:11:06] Voice 11: where you want to build you don't require permission from ielts trust to do that

[2:11:10] Voice 11: so of course there's no recutting by law either so is there anything we require

[2:11:17] Voice 11: development variance permits if you're within the setback from a lot line

[2:11:22] or from a water body that's in the sea for what coverage

[2:11:28] Voice 15: But

[2:11:34] Voice 11: that's the development variance part. Again, a lot of people get confused. Well,

[2:11:39] Voice 11: I don't need to vary my development permit because I didn't get a development permit.

[2:11:44] Voice 11: But it's the very long-line setback type, lot coverage. Regulations that are in the

[2:11:53] Voice 11: old landing spot

[2:11:55] Voice 1: okay

[2:11:57] Trustee Elliott: so following on this section of inspection um uh 4.5 uh you're asking for

[2:12:07] Trustee Elliott: reasonable advanced notice of the inspection of the resident must see situations whatever

[2:12:12] Trustee Elliott: the l2c would state it might be a policy that is not necessary um i'm wondering if this of the

[2:12:20] Trustee Elliott: a notice for inspection would be covered under the trust

[2:12:23] Trustee Elliott: housing policy draft. This is probably not necessary.

[2:12:30] Voice 11: I don't

[2:12:31] Voice 11: think it's covered in the trust council.

[2:12:34] Trustee Elliott: I thought we said we

[2:12:36] Trustee Elliott: suggested to notice.

[2:12:38] Voice 11: Yeah, well, that was to the template of this document, this

[2:12:43] Voice 11: initial document for Turner, they have a standing resolution

[2:12:47] Voice 11: says that they want their residents to have two weeks notice before a by-law officer shows up for inspection.

[2:12:53] Voice 11: Right.

[2:12:54] Voice 11: Trustee from Saturna said, well, can we make that standard within the template document,

[2:12:59] Voice 11: the compliance enforcement template document?

[2:13:01] Voice 11: Right, that's not going to be part of the LTC.

[2:13:03] Voice 11: So, with the LTC, if you want to adopt here, give everyone at least 30 days notice,

[2:13:09] Voice 11: sure, you can do that.

[2:13:11] Voice 11: I mean, that happens anyway because we took a water taxi over to Mudge.

[2:13:16] Voice 11: and just to get there and organize all this you can't just drive out of there and go to the

[2:13:22] Voice 11: property blah blah blah so advanced notices yeah

[2:13:25] Voice 11: so

[2:13:26] Trustee Elliott: what is reasonable advanced notice

[2:13:28] Trustee Elliott: and do we want to clarify uh time you know two weeks 30 days uh so that you know reasonable is

[2:13:38] Trustee Elliott: open your interpretation uh we could do you guys have suggestions

[2:13:47] Voice 11: You can use mutually agreeable time or, you know, I have no objections for my saying, yeah, you're going to get at least 30 days before we come to you.

[2:13:57] Voice 2: I will say this about Bylaw and them coming too much is they have been really good about reaching out to individual properties, either by email or phone call, you know, asking when a good time to come for a visit would be.

[2:14:16] Voice 2: So, I mean, they are doing that.

[2:14:18] Voice 2: Thank you.

[2:14:19] Voice 2: Yeah.

[2:14:20] Voice 2: Yeah.

[2:14:22] Voice 15: Yeah.

[2:14:23] Voice 15: Yeah, they are.

[2:14:24] Voice 15: Yeah.

[2:14:24] Voice 15: Great.

[2:14:29] Voice 15: Okay.

[2:14:29] Voice 15: So, 30 days is fine.

[2:14:31] Voice 15: Yeah.

[2:14:32] Voice 14: Awesome.

[2:14:33] Voice 6: Well, it's all good.

[2:14:33] Voice 14: We

[2:14:34] Voice 6: don't have to do this.

[2:14:35] Voice 6: This isn't a

[2:14:35] Voice 14: Gabriella section, though.

[2:14:36] Voice 14: So, like, because the way that this is structured, this is, this came under that.

[2:14:42] Voice 14: No, this policy

[2:14:43] Trustee Elliott: would apply to much as well.

[2:14:46] Voice 14: Yeah.

[2:14:46] Voice 14: Yeah.

[2:14:47] Voice 14: but it wouldn't say it's the way that's right we can

[2:14:51] Voice 11: put it in much we put it in part b yeah

[2:14:54] Voice 11: within part a you can say here's your gabriola whatever the time frame is and then the next

[2:15:01] Voice 11: section is for much you'll be given 30 days those are the options that they all need to be given

[2:15:07] Voice 11: so we are

[2:15:12] Voice 6: rewriting certain parts of this one

[2:15:14] Voice 15: Well, you're giving us your own.

[2:15:16] Voice 15: That was the thing, a large section.

[2:15:19] Voice 6: Well, it's

[2:15:19] Voice 14: taking in...

[2:15:21] It will be rewritten.

[2:15:24] There's no... But

[2:15:25] Voice 11: in the end,

[2:15:25] Voice 11: I can't... Well, I'm going to write up a document

[2:15:27] Voice 11: or report. What's

[2:15:29] Voice 11: finally written in the document is going to be up at the local

[2:15:31] Voice 11: trust meeting. We'll be ready to post it. It may happen

[2:15:33] Voice 11: in the meeting in October. This is

[2:15:35] Voice 9: just taking in the information and input, and

[2:15:37] okay, here's your options.

[2:15:38] You've got to be easy.

[2:15:41] Voice 15: Okay.

[2:15:42] Voice 2: I have a quick question, and it's something that we're going to be getting to down the road,

[2:15:50] Voice 2: but one of the problems that we're experiencing on Mudge is that there's a certain number of

[2:15:55] Voice 2: home occupations, contractors of various degrees, whether they build houses or

[2:16:03] Voice 2: operate heavy machinery or whatnot, and these people are essential to our community.

[2:16:09] Voice 2: We couldn't exist there without them.

[2:16:12] Voice 2: It's impractical to have to barge in machinery

[2:16:18] Voice 2: if you want to take some trees down or develop your lot or whatnot.

[2:16:22] Voice 2: It's clear that we have a need for that type of thing on the island.

[2:16:25] Voice 2: And I guess what I'm trying to get to is how difficult,

[2:16:29] Voice 2: I think we're zoned all residential on much,

[2:16:32] Voice 2: and that's created a problem for some people with heavy equipment.

[2:16:36] Voice 2: but how difficult would it be to change the zoning on a couple of lots to allow for say like

[2:16:44] Voice 2: industrial or something that that would then sort of clear up one of these issues or allow it to be

[2:16:51] Voice 2: done

[2:16:52] Voice 6: on a residential

[2:16:52] Voice 2: property yeah

[2:16:53] Voice 6: what would be a good solution to

[2:16:56] Voice 15: allow for that

[2:16:59] Trustee Elliott: so just quick question um probably to manage your payment um i did need something about that in some

[2:17:06] Trustee Elliott: of this information and i thought about that and i thought okay is it better to add that

[2:17:11] Trustee Elliott: as a whole market mission use or is it better to have a whole public meeting rezoning issue

[2:17:19] Trustee Elliott: and change the land use platform for the properties i don't know i don't have a practice

[2:17:27] Voice 14: so but

[2:17:28] Trustee Elliott: it needs to be done

[2:17:31] Voice 14: we're moving into rezoning and rezoning is really up to willing applicants unless the ltc decided

[2:17:40] Voice 14: they wanted to do something broadly but that may or may not be desirable because as soon as you

[2:17:45] Voice 14: start to mess with that kind of zoning you also potentially affect your tax uh notices

[2:17:49] Voice 14: i would like

[2:17:52] Voice 6: to see it added to the home occupation thing honestly well i mean there's

[2:17:57] Voice 6: there's only been a handful of things have been brought up there's there's there's other going

[2:18:01] Voice 6: to be other occupations that people do from their home that might not be in there that you know

[2:18:09] Voice 6: everybody's got to make a living and i mean some people are living there just because that's the

[2:18:13] Voice 6: only place they can afford to live so yeah i

[2:18:18] Voice 14: think we i think it is a rezoning issue which is

[2:18:21] Voice 14: separate from

[2:18:23] Voice 14: blood loss, of course.

[2:18:24] Voice 14: And so certainly the LTC could

[2:18:26] Voice 14: bring that as a topic that we

[2:18:29] Voice 14: consider

[2:18:31] Voice 14: broadening the

[2:18:32] Voice 14: homeowner page. So I

[2:18:33] Voice 5: think it may

[2:18:35] Voice 5: not necessarily be resuming, but

[2:18:36] Voice 5: it could even be talked at by

[2:18:38] Voice 5: us, but to a

[2:18:41] Voice 5: certain degree of permissible

[2:18:43] Voice 5: uses or whatever.

[2:18:45] Voice 5: But, you know, it's

[2:18:47] Voice 5: not going to be down the road, but

[2:18:49] Voice 5: as the interim

[2:18:50] Voice 5: stock out, is there something that we can do in policy

[2:18:54] Voice 5: to accommodate, until we get into these

[2:18:57] Voice 5: more thorny issues?

[2:19:00] Voice 11: What do you think, Warren?

[2:19:02] Voice 11: So I have to double check. I believe the OCP for Mudge allows

[2:19:06] Voice 11: temporary use permits. And I think some of these issues are already

[2:19:10] Voice 11: covered. Certain businesses, it's all been recognized, but I'll double

[2:19:14] Voice 11: check. Because you don't have commercial areas or whatever else on Mudge,

[2:19:19] Voice 11: you get a particular use permit that's an option you carry on certain commercial or industrial

[2:19:24] Voice 11: like there are cops right you have to apply to them

[2:19:29] Voice 6: i think there's a way sorry it has a limit

[2:19:32] Voice 6: on i think and you got to re-permit re-permit and you're only allowed to re-permit once or

[2:19:37] Voice 6: twice after the original that's changed recently forever

[2:19:40] Voice 14: now which is another

[2:19:42] Voice 11: issue altogether

[2:19:43] Voice 11: together with them. Do

[2:19:44] Voice 5: you think there's a way? In

[2:19:46] Voice 11: the short term, the trustees

[2:19:47] Voice 11: can adopt a policy, short

[2:19:50] Voice 11: say, these businesses, whatever, will not be enforced on until there could be amendments to OCP

[2:19:58] or the land use file. They can adopt that by policy, say, a little week.

[2:20:04] Voice 11: They've always said

[2:20:04] Voice 11: they want to review the budget on land use by law. So they've already had a very prescriptive

[2:20:11] Voice 11: important policy right now saying defer on everything basically except for these specific

[2:20:16] Voice 11: issues so i think you're actually covered right now there's not going to be enforcement on any

[2:20:22] Voice 11: non-committed home occupation or home industry because right now they're only we're only doing

[2:20:27] Voice 11: abc right yeah so you're okay right now as far as the home businesses or home industries that

[2:20:35] Voice 11: yes you're on debate you need to do what it is you don't have a very service and you don't have

[2:20:41] Voice 11: You know, commercial or industrial, but again,

[2:20:44] Voice 5: it would be like you said, we'd be fluid working process always changing.

[2:20:51] Voice 5: Can

[2:20:52] Trustee Elliott: we get back to that one point one point four, then, which is about enforcement and referral of enforcement.

[2:21:08] Trustee Elliott: And I just want to note that you've suggested adding cultural heritage and preservation

[2:21:15] Trustee Elliott: of cultural heritage quite a bit.

[2:21:19] Trustee Elliott: Is there a reason?

[2:21:22] Voice 14: Exactly. Oh, so you know what, that was actually, uh, the states, the states had added that,

[2:21:29] Voice 14: so we incorporated it. So we, we just heard that when, when it was brought up. Right.

[2:21:34] Voice 14: And we, we sort of said, well, I actually, what's interesting is we're not aware of any

[2:21:39] Voice 14: cultural heritage things on much. Because

[2:21:43] Trustee Elliott: you're not aware of the Chimney of the Pimps.

[2:21:45] Trustee Elliott: see but

[2:21:46] Voice 14: but we didn't incorporate it yeah but we were happy to let that go for now but we just

[2:21:53] Voice 14: but anyway so so we just incorporated that due to that what was said when this was initially

[2:22:04] Voice 14: proposed so we said hey we'll help out here we go we've got people looking at this so we've

[2:22:09] Voice 14: added that we'll work out no i

[2:22:11] Trustee Elliott: wouldn't say take it out i think it's it's actually important um

[2:22:15] Trustee Elliott: It's challenging to define right now.

[2:22:23] Voice 14: If this is a living document and it's not easily defined, I think we should actually leave it out because we're trying to make it more and more specific of a document, right?

[2:22:36] Voice 14: We thought it was important, but

[2:22:38] Voice 14: if it's not well defined, it just becomes yet another first thing that somebody can weaponize.

[2:22:44] Trustee Elliott: So back to 1.1.1.4 in my dialing section, you'd suggested taking out garden beds and driveways and structures.

[2:22:54] Trustee Elliott: So we know that that's a problem in the LUD of garden beds and driveways being defined as structures.

[2:23:02] Trustee Elliott: structures. But I guess the implication of this suggestion is that all enforcement is

[2:23:11] Trustee Elliott: deferred until the LTC can complete a review of the LUB. And so that would, I mean, that's

[2:23:18] Trustee Elliott: a serious conversation that we have to have, like, all enforcement deferred until we can

[2:23:24] Trustee Elliott: complete a review of the LUB could be years. And I think there's got to be some balance,

[2:23:34] Trustee Elliott: like we agreed to defer enforcement for now, I don't know if that one's going to honestly get through our political discussions.

[2:23:47] Trustee Elliott: I'm just curious,

[2:23:48] Trustee Elliott: you already passed that resolution.

[2:23:50] Trustee Elliott: A standing resolution can be rescinded at any time, so we absolutely passed that to get through this issue,

[2:23:58] Trustee Elliott: So everybody can have some breathing space, but to put that into policy

[2:24:03] Trustee Elliott: Mandating that we have to complete a review of the LED that

[2:24:07] Trustee Elliott: It's going to take years potentially

[2:24:10] Trustee Elliott: Doesn't much. I don't want to see no enforcement

[2:24:13] Trustee Elliott: Two years three years, right? It's just something we're going to have to consider

[2:24:19] Trustee Elliott: I have a question on this day. I thought I could be wrong here that garden beds and permeable driveways

[2:24:26] Trustee Elliott: We're already

[2:24:30] Voice 14: They're exempt, but they're not, they're not, they're not allowed in the setbacks.

[2:24:34] Voice 14: Yeah,

[2:24:35] Voice 6: I think they're exempt for land, they're not allowed in the 10% calculation,

[2:24:39] Voice 11: but they're not allowed in the setbacks.

[2:24:41] Voice 16: And

[2:24:41] Voice 11: there is an exemption, it is, we found it with the land use bylaw, there should be an exemption for driving

[2:24:46] Trustee Elliott: from

[2:24:47] Voice 11: requiring a DDT.

[2:24:50] Voice 11: Yes, from the setback.

[2:24:52] Trustee Elliott: And lock coverage, yeah. No,

[2:24:53] Voice 11: not lock coverage.

[2:24:54] Trustee Elliott: not okay

[2:24:55] Voice 11: the thing with the garden beds is that they deliberately put in that one section

[2:25:01] Voice 11: that's what's not i'm sorry it is excluded from block garbage but yes your garden bed

[2:25:09] Voice 11: actually is supposed to be in the setback from the bottom or the seat

[2:25:14] Voice 16: so

[2:25:15] Voice 11: there are people in

[2:25:16] Voice 11: gardens on mud they put it along the lot line and it's a contravention because it is a structure

[2:25:25] Voice 10: I have a question. Driveways, how could they be within a lot line setback when their egress

[2:25:34] Voice 10: is from the main road to the property? They would be inside the setback, crossing to the

[2:25:40] Voice 11: road.

[2:25:40] Voice 11: Some of them continue past the lot line.

[2:25:43] Voice 11: They wouldn't

[2:25:44] Voice 10: go past the lot line anyway if they're attached to a road with this frontage.

[2:25:48] Voice 10: Yeah, so if you have a road and you build…

[2:25:51] Voice 10: Then a setback doesn't apply.

[2:25:52] Voice 10: land? No, it does. It's still a road. I'm sorry, still a structure. A road is a structure. So if

[2:25:59] Voice 10: you build your driveway off the... To the road. You're not preventing the setback right there by

[2:26:06] Voice 10: going to the road. No, you're not. The lot line is still in front of it. No, it's set back within

[2:26:11] Voice 10: the lot lines.

[2:26:12] Voice 11: So once you cross, say, your front lot line, and you need to go 20 meters into your

[2:26:17] Voice 11: property to your house you build a structure that's in the setback for the front lot line

[2:26:23] Voice 11: sometimes they've also put in the setback from the side line so technically you need a variance

[2:26:31] Voice 11: for that unless the land use by law says those type of structures are exempted from requiring

[2:26:37] Voice 11: a variance permit or we're saying they're not structures

[2:26:41] Voice 11: so

[2:26:44] Voice 2: but the way like the way i understand

[2:26:46] Voice 2: of that then is every single driveway on every single lot is within the setback because it like

[2:26:54] Voice 2: what you're saying it needs to get that's correct no

[2:26:57] Voice 11: it's not from the lot line to the road it's on

[2:27:00] Voice 11: the property itself but the setback

[2:27:03] Voice 10: is from the lot line it's

[2:27:04] Voice 11: from within the property it's in

[2:27:06] Voice 11: the property but it's on the setback if your driveway is just up to your property line there's

[2:27:11] Voice 11: no issue if you once you go across your property line and build to your house and some people build

[2:27:18] Voice 11: they build them up it's concrete and it's very clearly a structure to everybody and yes you may

[2:27:24] Voice 11: need a variance for that unless there's an exception within the land use file it says

[2:27:29] Voice 11: you don't need to do that within the land use file there is such an exception but the land use

[2:27:35] Voice 11: file offer much is also unique where it says a driveway is a structure so it's unambiguous

[2:27:41] Voice 11: a

[2:27:41] Voice 5: driveway is a structure so in essence what you're saying is that every single property is

[2:27:48] Voice 5: in contravention no

[2:27:49] Voice 11: because there is an exception within the mudgye land use by law for driveways

[2:27:53] Voice 11: oh i see oh it's okay they have put it in there and it's daniel and i are daniel here's your

[2:28:00] Voice 11: exception so you don't need the dvp for the driver if it's just from a lot of you put a road next to

[2:28:07] Voice 11: the natural boundary of the scene

[2:28:08] Voice 16: you've

[2:28:10] Voice 11: put a structure next to the natural boundary of the

[2:28:13] Voice 11: scene you're going to get a great dvp for that

[2:28:15] Trustee Elliott: so warren your original wording here

[2:28:19] Trustee Elliott: um would have been enforcement on garden beds and driveways the structures will be deferred

[2:28:26] Trustee Elliott: until such time as the LTC can complete a review of the LEP,

[2:28:29] Trustee Elliott: would your advice be that that's taken out

[2:28:32] Trustee Elliott: because driveways are already exempt from being considered structures?

[2:28:37] Trustee Elliott: So what

[2:28:38] Voice 11: I would do in this section is put in the language

[2:28:40] Voice 11: from your standing resolution.

[2:28:42] Trustee Elliott: Yeah.

[2:28:42] Voice 12: That's

[2:28:43] Voice 11: what would go here.

[2:28:44] Voice 11: Right.

[2:28:44] Voice 11: This is what the LTC is deciding to do now.

[2:28:47] Voice 15: Okay.

[2:28:47] Voice 11: And this policy can be amended into six months from now or a year from now.

[2:28:52] Voice 11: Okay.

[2:28:53] Voice 11: If you wish to change that, we're just going to put that out.

[2:28:56] Voice 11: that's going to just put your standing resolution in this section

[2:29:00] Voice 5: or one step further would be to

[2:29:02] Voice 5: include our events but that comes down later down here

[2:29:06] Voice 14: oh i said that that's a vital change okay

[2:29:09] Voice 11: yes they just they need to say within the where are the things that we don't want to be considered

[2:29:15] Voice 11: structures yeah by

[2:29:17] Voice 11: much yeah garden beds and driveways that's the joke and

[2:29:22] Trustee Elliott: the other part

[2:29:23] Trustee Elliott: part of that is um it may be a very long time before a review of the 90s bylaw happens but

[2:29:29] Trustee Elliott: you can have another targeted review

[2:29:32] Voice 13: which is

[2:29:34] Trustee Elliott: another possibility when you had gone in 2017

[2:29:37] Trustee Elliott: 2018 it was a targeted language and that was fairly successful i

[2:29:43] Voice 2: thought you guys already

[2:29:45] Voice 2: decided that a targeted review was going to be coming down the road it's

[2:29:51] Trustee Elliott: on the future projects

[2:29:52] Voice 2: absolutely that was said on the record at one of our meetings there

[2:29:55] Trustee Elliott: was one other product potential

[2:29:58] Trustee Elliott: minor project that has

[2:30:00] Trustee Elliott: had a prioritization exercise everything's on the future projects list until it's on

[2:30:04] Trustee Elliott: current projects list yeah our current learner project is still

[2:30:08] Trustee Elliott: this branding ecological zone rezoning um and then the next one is rezoning

[2:30:16] Trustee Elliott: sorry specifically and then the mud island part of the review so it's

[2:30:23] Voice 7: it's on the list yes it's

[2:30:24] Trustee Elliott: if a successive LTC

[2:30:26] Trustee Elliott: gets in, they can have totally

[2:30:28] Trustee Elliott: different priorities. That's what I'm saying.

[2:30:30] Trustee Elliott: Nothing is locked in.

[2:30:32] Trustee Elliott: This is guaranteed. We're going to get to a

[2:30:34] Trustee Elliott: review in the next two years of our term.

[2:30:36] Trustee Elliott: Hopefully, yes.

[2:30:39] Trustee Elliott: But that's why the standing

[2:30:40] Trustee Elliott: resolution is there. Do we want

[2:30:42] Trustee Elliott: this to drag on for six years and have no

[2:30:44] Trustee Elliott: enforcement? I don't think anybody wants

[2:30:46] Trustee Elliott: that. We want a good policy that

[2:30:48] Trustee Elliott: protects what we want to protect.

[2:30:51] Trustee Elliott: Anyway,

[2:30:52] Trustee Elliott: if we're done on that one, can we just

[2:30:54] Trustee Elliott: go quickly to the next page now

[2:30:57] Voice 13: i'm just going to flag we're really uh 15 minutes remaining

[2:31:01] Voice 13: and so we should be succinctly getting through yeah

[2:31:06] Trustee Elliott: just the last page it's got uh

[2:31:09] Trustee Elliott: like i had a suggestion for the reason the council bylaw violation notices and added in

[2:31:15] Trustee Elliott: compliance is unreasonable and the effect is minimal um that's kind of a double

[2:31:24] Trustee Elliott: Edge, like, anyway, I don't think a line of a policy should say one thing or not to.

[2:31:32] Trustee Elliott: So the cost of compliance is unusable.

[2:31:36] Trustee Elliott: So I guess maybe we can have a very good conversation about trying to reach compliance.

[2:31:44] Trustee Elliott: I think there was something about cost.

[2:31:49] Trustee Elliott: Is there not?

[2:31:51] Voice 13: There was something about cost.

[2:31:52] Trustee Elliott: Can the person

[2:31:55] Voice 14: from the board to do it or not?

[2:31:57] Voice 14: Yeah, that's right. That's what I keep them. Yeah,

[2:31:59] Voice 14: yeah. No.

[2:32:05] Voice 12: So there should already be language like that in here.

[2:32:10] Voice 12: Yeah, we plan to get them.

[2:32:12] Voice 13: Yeah, I think it was the language that was there and it's something along the lines of the person can't afford it.

[2:32:18] Voice 11: And we sort of said no. So in enforcement procedures, number six, section six,

[2:32:37] Voice 12: So within one of these sections,

[2:32:40] Trustee Elliott: I

[2:32:41] Voice 12: think it's 7.5, is it 7.5?

[2:32:44] Trustee Elliott: Yeah.

[2:32:44] Trustee Elliott: Yeah.

[2:32:45] Trustee Elliott: Financially.

[2:32:46] Trustee Elliott: Oh, exactly.

[2:32:49] Voice 13: Yeah.

[2:32:50] Voice 7: Closing files.

[2:33:02] Voice 10: Yeah, so you can leave it at

[2:33:06] Voice 11: that, or it may step in the store. The director of planning you have to agree as they do with trust council calls. The director of the manager making decision to get or the director delegates it for that.

[2:33:20] Voice 14: So i'm just gonna take your advice on it. So yes, it was cut off in the middle.

[2:33:28] Voice 14: where's the discretion yeah

[2:33:30] Trustee Elliott: i think your addition you know i think the intent is good but how do you

[2:33:37] Trustee Elliott: determine that the cost of compliance is unreasonable like right say that's a thousand

[2:33:43] Trustee Elliott: dollar fine the person's refusing to comply and you issue bbms for you know once a week for

[2:33:49] Trustee Elliott: but they're also being stubborn, which is driving the costs.

[2:33:53] Trustee Elliott: Sure.

[2:33:56] Voice 12: It's more meant to address footfalls or minor breaches of the by-law.

[2:34:03] Voice 12: So say there's a lot of coverage and the person is five square feet over,

[2:34:09] Voice 12: and to change that, they're going to have to change their foundation.

[2:34:13] Voice 1: Right.

[2:34:14] Voice 12: So that's what we're saying, is that you should be able to say,

[2:34:19] Voice 12: You know, it's just not worth it to enforce this bylaw because the infraction is minimal and the cost to enforce it is huge.

[2:34:30] Voice 14: That's a great point.

[2:34:32] Voice 14: You know, in a

[2:34:32] Voice 14: place like that, I think bylaw enforcement has it on the task and would like to bring that to the LPC to ask how to do law enforcement.

[2:34:39] Voice 11: Correct. You have two options.

[2:34:40] Voice 11: One, there's already a policy that says that the director of planning services and the manager of compliance enforcement,

[2:34:46] enforcement um if they determine that it's a minor character and

[2:34:51] Voice 11: not in the interest of

[2:34:54] Voice 11: the ltc or just i was just however you want to put it to pursue enforcement

[2:34:59] Voice 11: then we can close the file right so that option is already there and it is used right the other

[2:35:06] Voice 11: option is okay we can say we can't make a decision on this we can send it to the ltc

[2:35:11] Voice 11: and they don't care. What do you want to do here? Yes, there's a

[2:35:15] Voice 11: contravention, but maybe we don't think it's reasonable that they

[2:35:19] Voice 11: comply, and then they can close the file. Is there an objective

[2:35:25] Voice 11: to having it in there? No. No, there's

[2:35:29] Voice 11: no objection. This is just about cancelling. This is actually not about

[2:35:32] Voice 11: requiring enforcement. This is about just cancelling it to a violation

[2:35:37] Voice 11: notice. So cancelling a violation notice

[2:35:40] Voice 11: is if all these are in here, this could be another reason that the screening officer

[2:35:46] Voice 11: or any screening officer says, okay, today I'm going to cancel this ticket.

[2:35:50] Voice 11: It doesn't mean the enforcement will not proceed.

[2:35:52] Voice 11: It doesn't mean that file is going to be closed.

[2:35:54] Voice 11: There still might be reasons to, or the file officer is going to pursue this.

[2:36:01] Voice 11: And in circumstances like that, it's very, you know,

[2:36:04] Voice 11: the property owner says, I don't think this is fair.

[2:36:06] Voice 11: Whenever they go to the LTC, the LTC asks for a report,

[2:36:09] Voice 11: and then the LTC is, okay, we don't want to see this.

[2:36:13] Voice 6: But it's up to the discretion of

[2:36:15] Voice 11: the LTC, right?

[2:36:16] Voice 6: Not the bylaws enforcement?

[2:36:18] Voice 11: No, it is.

[2:36:19] Voice 11: You have the one in trust counsel that says the director of planning services,

[2:36:22] Voice 11: the current policy, and myself as the manager,

[2:36:26] Voice 11: if we consider it minor and not in the interest to pursue, we can close it.

[2:36:30] Voice 6: Your discretion.

[2:36:32] Voice 11: Yes, two staff members, discretion.

[2:36:35] Voice 11: new proposed policies would give file officers more ability to say, okay, I'm going to close the file.

[2:36:41] Voice 11: These policies would give file officers more discretion to close the file.

[2:36:45] But already the LTC has full discretion to close any file where there's a completed investigation.

[2:36:52] We know what the contraventions are. We can say they're major or minor.

[2:36:56] That report will go to the LTC and they'll make the decision.

[2:37:02] Voice 11: their land use authority. It's their Bible.

[2:37:11] Voice 15: So just kind of thinking about it, I'll leave it as a concept of spirit, as opposed to specifics.

[2:37:20] But

[2:37:21] Voice 14: one of the things that we have found, particularly on the smaller items where people are remote,

[2:37:26] Voice 14: and mud is remote, you know, it's First Nations name is hard to get to in Ireland, and that's appropriate.

[2:37:34] Voice 14: A lot of the people on the island are there to, you know, be awkward, to be in a place

[2:37:42] Voice 14: without water.

[2:37:43] Voice 14: It's not like wild people or anything like that.

[2:37:47] Voice 14: People value their privacy.

[2:37:49] Voice 14: And so the spirit in the investigations, I would ask that we consider, is that they be

[2:37:57] Voice 14: be as minimally intrusive as possible, and that it possibly be avoided.

[2:38:03] Voice 14: Like, is there a way to investigate without an inspection?

[2:38:06] Voice 14: Is there a way to provide photographic evidence and evidentiary things so that people can

[2:38:11] Voice 14: just make this go away without having to have?

[2:38:15] Voice 14: And I think there is the concept of that, but what the people on the island have seen

[2:38:22] Voice 14: is that it's not necessarily the practice.

[2:38:25] Voice 14: And so, you know, there's an opportunity for the trust to regain trust with the community

[2:38:31] Voice 14: if we practice that way for a while, because I think that's where the community is very

[2:38:38] Voice 14: vocal.

[2:38:38] Voice 14: This group here is really tied into the community, and we know, we're told proactively everything

[2:38:44] Voice 14: that happens on the island, and, you know, if something doesn't go right, it goes like

[2:38:49] Voice 14: wild card.

[2:38:50] Voice 14: It's not just us hearing about it.

[2:38:51] Voice 14: So we want to get so that this is a productive, positive relationship.

[2:38:57] Voice 14: And there is trust, violence trust.

[2:39:01] Voice 14: And, you know, you have two open, you know, two public-facing pieces are the trustees

[2:39:09] Voice 14: who are, you know, really, really good to talk to, empathetic, and also by law enforcement.

[2:39:15] Voice 14: So those are the two public-facing groups.

[2:39:17] Voice 14: Now planning and almost maybe not the facing, but that's who people are talking to.

[2:39:21] Voice 14: And I just think you need to establish, you know, that trust for a while is something that is important to be established and re-established.

[2:39:33] So that's already the current practice. Especially on the hard-to-get-to

[2:39:40] Voice 11: items, we don't have any choice.

[2:39:41] Voice 11: If you can submit photographs, report a survey, whatever, there's no requirement for a recidivism

[2:39:47] Voice 11: entity unless they have really some serious grounds to compete that there's something

[2:39:51] Voice 11: else happening in the property that we're not being told about.

[2:39:55] That's written in these policies here that

[2:39:58] Voice 11: is to reassure them that, yes, you can do

[2:40:01] Voice 11: this.

[2:40:02] Voice 11: You want to go and take it.

[2:40:04] Voice 11: And that's already happened.

[2:40:05] Voice 11: I've met people taking their own photographs a couple of years ago.

[2:40:08] Voice 11: They got out the measuring tape.

[2:40:10] Voice 11: They photographed everything.

[2:40:11] Voice 11: here's all the measurements.

[2:40:12] Voice 11: Okay, we're good to go.

[2:40:14] Voice 11: It's already an option

[2:40:15] Voice 11: and this just reinforces

[2:40:16] Voice 11: everybody's policy.

[2:40:18] Voice 11: Sharing their stories

[2:40:19] Voice 14: and people finding out

[2:40:20] Voice 14: that that actually worked

[2:40:21] Voice 14: is probably an important thing

[2:40:23] Voice 14: because those are not the stories

[2:40:24] Voice 14: that get them looking.

[2:40:27] Voice 14: My background is

[2:40:28] Voice 14: I've been an executive

[2:40:29] Voice 14: in software companies

[2:40:30] Voice 14: for the last 20 years

[2:40:32] Voice 14: for customer success.

[2:40:33] Voice 14: We have something called

[2:40:35] Voice 14: the theory behind

[2:40:37] Voice 14: the net promoter score

[2:40:38] Voice 14: is the only people

[2:40:40] Voice 14: who ever talk about you

[2:40:41] Voice 14: on a 0 and 10 scale

[2:40:43] are the people who give you 9s and 10s

[2:40:45] and then people who give you

[2:40:47] a 4, 5 and below.

[2:40:48] And so what

[2:40:49] Voice 14: that means is

[2:40:50] Voice 14: the rating scale

[2:40:51] Voice 14: will amplify

[2:40:54] Voice 14: the negative and you

[2:40:57] Voice 14: really have to be exceptional

[2:40:58] Voice 14: to amplify the positive.

[2:41:01] Voice 16: In

[2:41:01] Voice 14: the middle doesn't get you anything.

[2:41:04] Voice 14: And so I do think

[2:41:05] Voice 14: that, because you mentioned that trust

[2:41:07] Voice 14: is something that you're trying to bring back

[2:41:09] Voice 14: the other's trust. And I think

[2:41:11] Voice 14: that's an opportunity for you to take

[2:41:13] Voice 14: as a spirit, is

[2:41:14] Voice 14: how do we get some raving fans

[2:41:17] Voice 14: as opposed to a bunch of people

[2:41:19] Voice 14: who just don't trust us

[2:41:21] Voice 14: and are amplifying the negative.

[2:41:22] Voice 14: And that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to get this

[2:41:25] Voice 14: so that we can get some positive

[2:41:27] Voice 14: stories behind this

[2:41:28] Voice 14: to put this to bed.

[2:41:30] Voice 1: We

[2:41:31] Voice 14: need to celebrate our own successes

[2:41:33] Voice 14: and we don't.

[2:41:36] Voice 5: It may be very, very hard

[2:41:38] Voice 5: to fix every complaint um in the community and i don't know how that will uh bode with

[2:41:46] Voice 5: the community is if you know the hammer comes down on all 52 people you know whether they're

[2:41:53] Voice 5: you know they're legitimate i'm not sure what that does for everyone um and the first thing

[2:42:02] Voice 5: i have to say there's no hammer um

[2:42:05] Voice 11: there is no hammer it's in the end if you have a local trust

[2:42:10] Voice 11: committee that we can they've already adopted a standing resolution that says bring any quantum

[2:42:15] Voice 11: branches to us here's what we're looking at we'll bring it on the bridge it's up to these three

[2:42:21] Voice 11: elected officials on how enforcement's going to proceed you know so every kind of people are

[2:42:26] Voice 11: apprehensive but there is no hammer that's going to come down here

[2:42:29] Voice 5: everything's going to go to the

[2:42:31] Voice 5: yeah and that's gone a long way to to back off enforcement the community is is like this but

[2:42:38] Voice 5: it's still some uncertainty in the community what's going to happen with these infractions

[2:42:45] Voice 5: that exist and how are they going to be dealt with i know we're getting ahead of ourselves

[2:42:51] Voice 5: but so

[2:42:52] Trustee Elliott: i'll give you an instance from our experience on main island i'm learning a lot

[2:42:56] Trustee Elliott: from that um we've had the opportunity to have by law enforcement bring to the ltc all of the files

[2:43:05] Trustee Elliott: here is all the information and we talked it through in a closed meeting and because the

[2:43:10] Trustee Elliott: trustees have information about their community members and they know specifics they can say

[2:43:16] Trustee Elliott: that's not a priority do not don't pursue that one and not this or this is a priority for us and so

[2:43:23] Trustee Elliott: So establishing priorities at the outset that are transparent,

[2:43:27] Trustee Elliott: what do we want them for?

[2:43:29] Trustee Elliott: Well, for Gabriola, short-term vacation rentals, that's a priority.

[2:43:33] Trustee Elliott: We have proactive enforcement because housing is an issue,

[2:43:37] Trustee Elliott: environmental issues, definitely.

[2:43:39] Trustee Elliott: So the LTC can set priorities, but we can also get specific

[2:43:43] Trustee Elliott: and give them direction.

[2:43:45] Trustee Elliott: We can't give direction until we know the stuff.

[2:43:48] Trustee Elliott: And so that's where we're coming into that real,

[2:43:51] Trustee Elliott: we're still working through that um building trust phase uh where investigations have had

[2:43:57] Trustee Elliott: to proceed but i think at least from my point of view i'm not going to direct enforcement on

[2:44:03] Trustee Elliott: 53 files but we need to know what is the specifics sure and also hear from your community

[2:44:11] Trustee Elliott: what it's important to enforce on yeah

[2:44:13] Voice 1: that's the other

[2:44:13] Trustee Elliott: side of it yeah that's why i said we don't

[2:44:15] Trustee Elliott: do we actually want to defer enforcement forever i mean i'm pretty sure your community wants to see

[2:44:21] Trustee Elliott: some things that are significant yes we agree those are not yeah we

[2:44:27] Trustee Elliott: want to uphold the bylaw

[2:44:29] Trustee Elliott: where it's a it's in the benefits of the community so we still have a conversation to have about

[2:44:35] Trustee Elliott: what needs to be changed in the land use bylaw but until that happens

[2:44:40] Trustee Elliott: i'm pretty sure we're going to be very circumspect and um err on the side of building trusts

[2:44:48] Trustee Elliott: and not direct enforcement on things that are minor for sure there's

[2:44:53] Voice 5: there's been a turnaround

[2:44:54] Voice 5: in the community is that the good of this is that there's been a reset in the community they go

[2:45:00] Voice 5: wow they're serious you know we've we've got to start complying and that's the positive

[2:45:06] Voice 5: moving forward is that people go on maybe I shouldn't build my garage as

[2:45:13] Voice 5: opposed to the you know I'll rethink it and move it back and and all of these

[2:45:18] Voice 5: different things so but it will take time you know I spoke to this before in

[2:45:25] Voice 5: the public information meeting is that you know it will take time for the

[2:45:30] Voice 5: community to fully appreciate that there are laws that you know they they can't

[2:45:36] Voice 5: conduct themselves this way and you know but the trust starts to bleed into that now is that

[2:45:44] Voice 5: how do we work together to build that so

[2:45:49] Voice 2: i think obviously like deferring uh enforcement like um

[2:45:55] Voice 2: you know uh long term isn't you know a solution clearly but um you know the fact that you know

[2:46:03] Voice 2: enforcement is still in place for health and safety you know those are the top priorities

[2:46:07] Voice 2: like health and safety that involves you know pollution the environment and all that stuff too

[2:46:12] Voice 2: and so the fact that we're moving ahead with with uh enforcement on those issues and and giving us

[2:46:20] Voice 2: time to find solutions on for the other issues so i don't think we're not asking for an indefinite

[2:46:28] Voice 2: suspension of enforcement right and i think that by leaving enforcement on those those three

[2:46:35] Voice 2: you know environmental and safety and whatnot health and safety that that keeps us sort of

[2:46:40] Voice 2: covered and safe for a while on the most important things

[2:46:47] Trustee Elliott: just one little comment i i actually do want to retain cultural heritage in there even if you

[2:46:55] Trustee Elliott: not really know what it is at this point and it's important we it's part of reconciliation

[2:47:11] Voice 14: so you know that's one of those things maybe it's not ready to come in but that's okay but

[2:47:16] Voice 14: We heard you.

[2:47:18] Voice 14: We incorporated it.

[2:47:20] Voice 14: I mean, just one other sort of clarification.

[2:47:24] Voice 12: There is still a hammer.

[2:47:26] Voice 12: The hammer is suspended above our heads.

[2:47:30] Voice 12: And anyone who wants to sell their property is going to have to sell it saying,

[2:47:35] Voice 12: I've got these unsolved complaints.

[2:47:39] Or, you know, anyone who was considering

[2:47:42] Voice 12: doing something on their property,

[2:47:46] Voice 12: but is hoping for a bio-life change is just going to have to wait.

[2:47:52] Voice 12: So, just saying.

[2:47:54] Voice 14: That is the word on much right now, is don't buy much because there's so many.

[2:48:00] Voice 14: The word is out there. People have been advising their friends not to buy much.

[2:48:05] Voice 12: So there is an impact and we're very appreciative of having the bottles

[2:48:10] Voice 12: and it's solved a big part of the problem, but we still have this hammer that's suspended over our heads.

[2:48:19] Trustee Elliott: Well, but we're getting some clarity, and that's the point of this meeting today.

[2:48:25] Trustee Elliott: Again, structures that were built before front of laws were in place are, you know, considered legal non-conforming, right?

[2:48:33] Trustee Elliott: And so we still have to, I'm still trying to understand how much is legal non-conforming

[2:48:42] Trustee Elliott: and maybe residents still need to know that too.

[2:48:45] Trustee Elliott: So I think we're in a good place.

[2:48:49] Trustee Elliott: We've heard your input.

[2:48:51] Trustee Elliott: Is there any final pieces on this?

[2:48:56] Voice 14: What we're trying to do is have the people in the communities that are not affecting

[2:49:02] Voice 14: those around them, but not. I know you guys have some difficulty with that, but that is a community thing, it's we are a community that has its neighbourhoods, and, you know, we just don't want to have these diatribe fights where one person with some axe, we don't know what that axe is, and we don't know who the person is, but they've always had an axe.

[2:49:21] Voice 2: So what's really important to us is community consultation, and this is what's happening.

[2:49:29] Voice 2: You know, we're a delegation from Ledger Island. We were actually elected by our community to represent our community.

[2:49:36] Voice 2: And that's what's really important to us through this whole process is just that there is regular and consistent public consultation.

[2:49:47] Voice 2: So I'm hoping sort of the takeaway from today is, I guess, Warren's going to be working on the policy document again, and I'm hoping with staff, obviously, and I'm hoping that that will get shared with us again, and that maybe we'll have another opportunity to speak to it in the future before it is submitted for adoption.

[2:50:12] Voice 2: Oh, you will definitely have that opportunity.

[2:50:14] Voice 2: I would appreciate that.

[2:50:16] Trustee Elliott: Are we, wait a minute.

[2:50:17] Trustee Elliott: are we sure about that because before adoption but you know i i'm i'm my impression was that

[2:50:27] Trustee Elliott: we would see this in a public meeting that of course you have input but if we're hoping to

[2:50:32] Trustee Elliott: adopt in october how does that work

[2:50:35] Voice 2: what's the date but

[2:50:37] Trustee Elliott: i

[2:50:38] Voice 2: mean we don't why rush it well why not

[2:50:40] Voice 2: we're going to say that's right

[2:50:41] Voice 2: i know we said october is like actually

[2:50:44] Trustee Elliott: our next week it's not

[2:50:44] Trustee Elliott: coming that's right so we're not having anything we hadn't committed to reviewing this and having

[2:50:51] Trustee Elliott: a thought before july 16th meeting we said in october that's

[2:50:55] Voice 2: what that was the target for sure

[2:50:57] Voice 2: but i mean obviously there's still some back and forth that needs to take place i think for this

[2:51:02] Voice 2: would there be a problem in

[2:51:04] Voice 11: sharing no no there isn't so one when it goes to an ltc meeting it

[2:51:09] Voice 11: doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be adopted and yes I can before they I can send you the

[2:51:16] draft version before

[2:51:17] Voice 11: you know say I gave input have your input on what my staff report says

[2:51:23] Voice 11: before it finally goes through the process of being put on the agenda that's that's it's not

[2:51:28] Voice 11: wrong right I was worried about time at the next meeting I've ever done lots of time that'd be

[2:51:33] Voice 11: great again thank you all of your inputs can go again we present as options to the lpc

[2:51:40] Trustee Elliott: so i just have one really quick um question and that relates to do we have a separate one from

[2:51:46] Trustee Elliott: lunch island yes

[2:51:48] Voice 11: so i already do that's what part b

[2:51:51] Trustee Elliott: is that's what i mean do we keep that

[2:51:52] Trustee Elliott: as a session yeah okay

[2:51:54] Voice 11: it's separate it's not and that was done deliberately from the start

[2:51:57] Voice 11: you've got the gear worldwide then you've got much whatever you want to apply from

[2:52:01] Voice 11: be relatively much a little by but for the most part it might get to some of you which i think

[2:52:06] Trustee Elliott: is great we

[2:52:10] Voice 5: think the basic framework warren they put together was awesome yeah i we're unanimous

[2:52:16] Voice 5: on that i said wow it's it's close we you know we were a little uh it would have been nice to

[2:52:24] Voice 5: participate in that process before it got kicked out but i mean it it got kicked out and it was

[2:52:31] Voice 5: was pretty good and we think we're very close and we appreciate you know the work that you did

[2:52:37] Voice 5: to like oh wow he's three quarters away there and I think it's just a little bit of tweaking

[2:52:44] Voice 5: yeah

[2:52:45] Voice 14: there's still room for fine-tuning and so let's get to the next step and do sure this has

[2:52:50] Voice 14: been a really worthwhile day thank you

[2:52:53] Voice 7: just um as you said um

[2:52:56] Voice 7: um that people could apply for a legal non-conforming don't want

[2:53:03] Voice 7: to apply or like

[2:53:04] Voice 7: how do you because people are asking me that i did hear that one of the things that you passed

[2:53:18] Voice 15: closed

[2:53:19] Voice 7: because so how so then everyone's saying how do people who built in the 80s and the 90s

[2:53:26] Voice 7: get that without obscene so

[2:53:28] Voice 11: they already have it's

[2:53:30] Voice 7: there and just

[2:53:32] Voice 11: to us we need the evidence

[2:53:34] Voice 11: that okay you can provide us enough evidence that we believe that to be true okay so for a lot of

[2:53:41] Voice 11: the 30 meter setback that much is new since 2007 so before that was seven and a half years so all

[2:53:48] Voice 11: these homes that are built just back seven and a half years that were built before the adoption

[2:53:53] Voice 11: option of the actual blood dialing that used by law, they're protected. It's there. You just

[2:53:59] Voice 11: need some evidence. And

[2:54:00] Voice 7: evidence would be? Well,

[2:54:02] Voice 14: in some situations, like this flyover aircraft

[2:54:05] Voice 14: photographs as far back as the 60s, then you can say, it's back to my house. We can go, okay. It

[2:54:12] Voice 11: is in the end, whatever you can provide, even if it's statements or affidavits from the neighbors

[2:54:17] Voice 11: versus it. This was here in 1980. We need something. If we have

[2:54:21] Voice 11: nothing, like

[2:54:22] Voice 14: something like that, we can just get

[2:54:24] Voice 14: yeah, or

[2:54:25] Voice 16: I

[2:54:25] Voice 12: can't prove that it was built in 1990. Well, yeah, you can get

[2:54:33] Voice 7: an update from you.

[2:54:34] Voice 7: And for for us, like we have a log cabin and it came from the

[2:54:40] Voice 7: phone. So if they have records that go that far back to 1991,

[2:54:47] Voice 7: would that do yes okay provide

[2:54:50] Voice 11: documentation any

[2:54:51] Voice 7: type that says that you were billed for 2007.

[2:54:55] Voice 2: yeah if it's within the senate that's when the yeah the setback changed

[2:54:59] Voice 2: and

[2:55:00] Voice 14: again i think that's an ltc decision more or less if it gets to that some of the dispute

[2:55:08] Voice 14: um depends on what it is well here's what i'm told by our legal counsel oh yeah you know who

[2:55:15] decides

[2:55:15] Voice 11: what is lawful and non-conforming in this province a judge when we say that okay i believe

[2:55:23] Voice 11: he was lawful and non-conforming it's not some type of legal rule right some point in the future

[2:55:29] Voice 11: some of you can get a complaint again and some of you could some new evidence and said no that

[2:55:34] Voice 11: it's not lawful and non-conforming correct you can't go back to time oh no this staff member

[2:55:39] Voice 11: said i was lawful and non-conforming and therefore you can't proceed with enforcement again that's

[2:55:44] Voice 11: not true right it's all based on the evidence that's presented right so the ltc can say in

[2:55:50] our opinion you're good but it's not some type of legal ruling or approval or permit that says

[2:55:58] absolutely i'm lawful not performing is

[2:56:01] Voice 11: there something that is that in the bible so it could

[2:56:04] no well no it

[2:56:07] Voice 11: is from provincial like okay let's say the short-term education rental

[2:56:12] Voice 11: law that was just passed adopted they have eliminated the lawful non-conforming protection

[2:56:18] Voice 11: for short-term vacation the certain date you're unlawful you can no longer claim that you're a

[2:56:25] Voice 11: pre-existing use therefore non-conforming and therefore permitted to continue the provincial

[2:56:30] government could don't want to try and scare anyone but they can do the same thing for setbacks

[2:56:36] from the sea

[2:56:36] Voice 11: i mean here everyone must be you no longer have lawful non-conforming protection

[2:56:41] Voice 11: and everyone must set their

[2:56:42] Voice 9: buildings

[2:56:43] Voice 11: back 30 meters from the scene.

[2:56:46] Voice 11: And it's eliminated.

[2:56:47] Voice 14: Yeah,

[2:56:47] Voice 11: but this is a totally new regulatory regime.

[2:56:50] Voice 11: Yes, it's being challenged, and a judge may say,

[2:56:54] Voice 11: okay, no, you can't say how many people's lives are lost.

[2:56:56] Voice 11: Well,

[2:56:57] Trustee Elliott: it's about validating laws, right?

[2:56:59] Trustee Elliott: So climate change in a reality, meaning 30 meters back from the scene,

[2:57:04] Trustee Elliott: may become the minimum for safety.

[2:57:07] Trustee Elliott: And when the province puts in regulations saying

[2:57:09] Trustee Elliott: everybody's got to be 50 meters back right that's going to supersede your local land use bylaws so

[2:57:15] Trustee Elliott: when we're looking at laws there are reasons why they're created in context at a certain

[2:57:20] Trustee Elliott: time they're serving a purpose if that purpose is then superseded by something higher then you've

[2:57:26] Trustee Elliott: got it. You got it. Anyway, thank you. Oh,

[2:57:33] Voice 13: thanks for Thank you.

[2:57:36] Voice 13: Okay, I

[2:57:38] Voice 14: appreciate it. Very much. Thank you. So that's called

[2:57:45] Voice 14: a meeting adjourned then. And we look forward to any version of

[2:58:00] Voice 16: Thank you.