Islands Trust Regional Planning Committee regular meeting, February 7, 2025

[0:00:00] Trustee Patrick: to start this all right everybody we're all set to go all

[0:00:04] Voice 6: right chair we're recording and just

[0:00:06] Voice 6: about live streaming

[0:00:07] Trustee Patrick: just about okay perfect

[0:00:10] Voice 6: ready for you

[0:00:12] Trustee Patrick: morning i'd like to call this

[0:00:14] Trustee Patrick: regular meeting of the regional planning committee to order

[0:00:21] Trustee Patrick: before we start i always acknowledge how fortunate we are to be gathering today on

[0:00:27] Trustee Patrick: on the unceded and important territories

[0:00:32] Trustee Patrick: of so many Coast Salish nations.

[0:00:35] Trustee Patrick: I wanted to share, I just completed

[0:00:37] Trustee Patrick: the final training session of what was called Conext.

[0:00:41] Trustee Patrick: It was the climate preparedness hub

[0:00:43] Trustee Patrick: that was a pilot program put on through federal funding

[0:00:47] Trustee Patrick: that was provided,

[0:00:52] Trustee Patrick: it was through the Fraser River Basin Council

[0:00:55] Trustee Patrick: that put it on with a number of organizations

[0:00:57] Trustee Patrick: Nations and First Nations. Chris Hutton, our regional planning manager here on Salt Spring

[0:01:02] Trustee Patrick: participated as well as Transition Salt Spring was our team, our Salt Spring team.

[0:01:10] Trustee Patrick: And it was a very interesting program. It was very cool the way it was done. We had lots of

[0:01:16] Trustee Patrick: breakout sessions, time spent. There were multiple regional districts there with multiple teams that

[0:01:22] Trustee Patrick: they themselves put together with First Nations and others to participate in this training.

[0:01:27] Trustee Patrick: There will be a second call this spring. So if you think your community would benefit, it is emergency preparedness and climate adaptation focused, but we fit right in there perfectly.

[0:01:46] Trustee Patrick: and um and it was a good practice session because the very last one we got to sort of pitch sort of

[0:01:51] Trustee Patrick: some ideas of where we're think we're going and ask for the group to help brainstorm and bring

[0:01:58] Trustee Patrick: their ideas and thoughts to the table too because the the idea of this program is that we're all

[0:02:02] Trustee Patrick: having to adapt to climate change no one has enough money resources capacity to do this well

[0:02:09] Trustee Patrick: And that we all have to share, learn, and we have so much to learn for Indigenous knowledge and working as well, not forgetting that we have our neighbours that we need to work with. And it was a really good program. I think I would highly recommend it. And I enjoyed it.

[0:02:28] Trustee Patrick: it okay we have an agenda before us um is there any changes to the agenda i see director sermac

[0:02:41] Trustee Patrick: i'm sorry i'm going to call you trustee sermac 50 times today so just get used to it

[0:02:44] Voice 10: i i'm more

[0:02:46] Voice 10: than used to it and and uh trustee luckham has called me so many more things than you could ever

[0:02:51] Voice 10: so no problem um okay so i just a few thoughts the item 7.3 um you know i'd be happy to speak

[0:03:01] Voice 10: to it when the time arises uh but we were scheduled we were planning on having um senior

[0:03:07] Voice 10: freshwater specialist uh william schulbaugh to help present that he is otherwise engaged till

[0:03:12] Voice 10: noon so with your indulgence would love to put that at the end of the agenda such that he can

[0:03:17] Voice 10: join us and be an aide for that and then the other one would be item 7.5 we have brendan da

[0:03:25] Voice 10: from Urbanics Consultants scheduled to join us.

[0:03:28] Voice 10: We tried to keep him into a timeline

[0:03:31] Voice 10: because we pay him.

[0:03:33] Voice 10: So suggested 11 a.m. to noon, that timeline.

[0:03:37] Voice 10: So whatever's going on, if that's okay,

[0:03:39] Voice 10: to the chair that we just kind of pause,

[0:03:42] Voice 10: allow him to show up, make his presentation,

[0:03:45] Voice 10: answer some questions.

[0:03:47] Voice 10: I don't know if that changes the agenda so much

[0:03:49] Voice 10: as it just allows us to pause

[0:03:52] Voice 10: whatever we're doing to let him in.

[0:03:54] Trustee Patrick: I'm not seeing any objections being raised to that so um with that I think can we approve

[0:04:01] Trustee Patrick: the agenda through general consent excellent so that moves us on uh public comment period I see

[0:04:10] Trustee Patrick: there's no one uh attending as a panel member moving on so we have our draft minutes from

[0:04:17] Trustee Patrick: our November 8th meeting are there any corrections additions changes to those minutes

[0:04:24] Trustee Patrick: not seeing any we can approve that through general consent excellent um we have one

[0:04:35] Trustee Patrick: resolution without meeting that's here for our information and that brings us right into item

[0:04:43] Trustee Patrick: 7.1 the regional planning committee minutes of september 4th discussion i believe that was uh

[0:04:49] Trustee Patrick: trustee elliott who brought that to the agenda uh

[0:04:55] Trustee Elliott: thank you chair yes i just wanted to have a very

[0:04:57] Trustee Elliott: very brief conversation so this committee could, well, we could all just get on the same page. So

[0:05:08] Trustee Elliott: what happened, and I'll back up a little bit as the link to executive committee, I'm the liaison

[0:05:15] Trustee Elliott: to regional planning committee. It's my responsibility to ensure the flow through

[0:05:20] Trustee Elliott: of information um is accurate and um what happened with this one meeting this was a

[0:05:29] Trustee Elliott: the september 4th meeting vice chair borthwick was chairing um and we had a very long

[0:05:38] Trustee Elliott: quite rambling discussion uh on four different documents to do with the bylaw enforcement

[0:05:45] Trustee Elliott: enforcement um review project and at the end of that meeting or sorry a section of the discussion

[0:05:54] Trustee Elliott: um the committee seemed to half decide we're going to send these documents on to trust council

[0:06:02] Trustee Elliott: and we can do it by general consent and that was not noted in the minutes um and so

[0:06:09] Trustee Elliott: So, Chair, and maybe you want to speak to this, there was, when Executive Committee is approving the agenda for Trust Council, these draft documents that the committee had been working on had come to us, and the note was that the committee had, you know, sent them on to Trust Council as a check-in by general consent.

[0:06:36] Trustee Elliott: But the minutes didn't reflect this. And Chair Patrick and I were having some back and forth going, why is this landing on Trust Council's agenda? There wasn't a clear understanding. And so it went on to Trust Council. We got some feedback. But it also caused some confusion because these were works in progress.

[0:06:59] Trustee Elliott: I think the intent of the committee, and I went back and reviewed the recording, to my understanding, the intent of the committee at that time was, here's a check-in, this is where we're going, we want to plain language this document and get some feedback.

[0:07:16] Trustee Elliott: back um but i don't trust it patrick maybe you can speak to your understanding of it was that

[0:07:24] Trustee Elliott: that was probably not a a great thing to do either the committee is recommending approval of of these

[0:07:31] Trustee Elliott: aspects of the projects or we want um um you know to bring back a charter to to amend it right so

[0:07:39] Trustee Elliott: i just wanted to have this conversation that we really shouldn't be approving things by consent

[0:07:44] Trustee Elliott: sense. First of all, it's important to note in the minutes and be very articulate what is being

[0:07:52] Trustee Elliott: asked so that when the information flows through to different committees, we all have clarity.

[0:07:58] Trustee Elliott: And I think secondly, so executive committee discussed this and we decided we have to do a

[0:08:07] Trustee Elliott: better job, the vice chairs, of really checking in with the chairs of committees and saying,

[0:08:11] Trustee Elliott: is this material ready and doing sort of a doubling back um and so that was um resolved

[0:08:18] Trustee Elliott: an executive committee when we talked about this but i just wanted to flag this um having incomplete

[0:08:25] Trustee Elliott: or uh resolutions that are unclear just can create a lot of problems in the long run so

[0:08:35] Trustee Elliott: thanks for indulging me if there's any comments on it or trustee patrick you want to

[0:08:40] Trustee Elliott: weigh in on this too?

[0:08:43] Trustee Patrick: Well, thank you, Trustee Elliott, for bringing it up. I did add to the

[0:08:46] Trustee Patrick: November 8th meeting, we opened with a discussion about reviewing our role and reviewed our

[0:08:53] Trustee Patrick: reminder that we needed to have very clear instructions when we sent it on and take our

[0:08:58] Trustee Patrick: time and have that. So we did have that conversation and I know we all doubled back

[0:09:02] Trustee Patrick: and that was the September meeting that encouraged us to have that conversation.

[0:09:07] Trustee Patrick: conversation so i think uh i think all of us need to be aware it's it is easy in the role of a chair

[0:09:12] Trustee Patrick: i did go back and listen to the tape uh the minutes are correct uh director sermac did suggest uh it

[0:09:19] Trustee Patrick: could be approved through general consent and the chair just kept on going through the meeting so

[0:09:24] Trustee Patrick: a staff person cannot do that so the minutes are correct and um but i think i did talk to uh

[0:09:30] Trustee Patrick: trustee borthwick he did agree his understanding was the material was being sent on um it just

[0:09:36] Trustee Patrick: it was messy. So, you know, I think it is difficult. The executive does have a role.

[0:09:42] Trustee Patrick: There is a policy. We have a policy on everything. Policy 222, council meeting preparation.

[0:09:48] Trustee Patrick: And it is a good idea for the executive committee to check in and review. It happens. And we as a

[0:09:58] Trustee Patrick: committee just want to be, and I will, I have promised I'm going to be very close to how our

[0:10:03] Trustee Patrick: minutes are and that we're very clear um going forward um on instructions so i don't know if

[0:10:10] Trustee Patrick: there's any other comments that need to be made i think we just have to all do our job to pay

[0:10:13] Trustee Patrick: attention um as we go good okay so back on then to the next item we have um um seven are we gonna do

[0:10:27] Trustee Patrick: this one or also seven two did you the watershed security oh no i guess you're gonna do that one

[0:10:32] Trustee Patrick: Stefan 7.2 the approval of the grant application page 22.

[0:10:38] Voice 10: uh thank you chair um just in in short

[0:10:42] Voice 10: the um the regional planning committee uh passed resolution without meeting um oh no let me back

[0:10:49] Voice 10: one more the uh the regional planning committee had passed the resolution uh requesting staff to

[0:10:55] Voice 10: to apply for a freshwater sustainability grant.

[0:10:59] Voice 10: After the fact, the RPC had second thoughts

[0:11:03] Voice 10: about their authority, whether or not to do that.

[0:11:05] Voice 10: So he passed a resolution seeking clarity

[0:11:07] Voice 10: from the executive committee,

[0:11:09] Voice 10: whether or not you did have that authority.

[0:11:11] Voice 10: The executive committee considered that request

[0:11:15] Voice 10: and have confirmed that you have the authority

[0:11:18] Voice 10: to pass such a resolution.

[0:11:19] Voice 10: And that's what the briefing says.

[0:11:21] Voice 10: Well,

[0:11:23] Trustee Patrick: I thank you, Trustee Cermak, and I just sent Rob a resolution. Actually, you know me, I've gone and read everybody's municipal council on approving grants and our own policy 654. And it is amazing.

[0:11:43] Trustee Patrick: um you know again this grant application was five hundred thousand dollars two staff positions it

[0:11:50] Trustee Patrick: was significant and while i don't disagree that the interpretation of our policy

[0:11:55] Trustee Patrick: kind of indicates we can go ahead and do that should it so i think we should send a request back

[0:12:03] Trustee Patrick: um i know the ones i've looked at they've just made the grant applications in line with the

[0:12:08] Trustee Patrick: regular procurement approvals, which in our case is $25,000 for the CAO. Why should a committee be

[0:12:14] Trustee Patrick: out on $500,000? So I think the $5,000 limit was a little too broad. And I think this policy does

[0:12:20] Trustee Patrick: deserve some review because there are different reasons why grant applications need like console

[0:12:29] Trustee Patrick: resolutions, one to strengthen the support or a requirement of the grant application.

[0:12:35] Trustee Patrick: There's budget triggers, you know, is the money in the budget? Are the matching funds in the budget? There's a lot of questions that come up, and we should have a better policy that makes it clear under what conditions and who and when should be making those decisions.

[0:12:48] Trustee Patrick: So, I did send Rob a draft, whatever you want to call it, motion. That's the word. Sorry. I'll put it on the floor. I'm not making it yet. I like to wordsmith motions, as is always my case.

[0:13:05] Trustee Patrick: So this is what I've put forward, that we would recommend that they revise this policy to develop clear guidance for staff when applying for external grant funding opportunities, align it with our procurement policies, and establish clear approval and reporting processes.

[0:13:22] Trustee Patrick: Because that was the key thing I found in other jurisdictions is, you know, there's reporting requirements of when you go back up to council and so forth to say, how are you doing?

[0:13:35] Trustee Patrick: on the grant. Where does it stand? How much money has been spent? Is the project on time?

[0:13:40] Trustee Patrick: Those type of things. I don't know how you feel about this. Would you like some wording? I see

[0:13:45] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Graham.

[0:13:47] Voice 9: Thank you, Chair. That's a great motion. My suggestion would be,

[0:13:51] Voice 9: the second line there, to develop clear guidance for staff and trust committees, just so that

[0:13:59] Voice 9: the guidance is applied to both committees and staff. That's just a suggestion.

[0:14:03] Voice 9: Yes, Jim.

[0:14:05] Trustee Patrick: Nope, that would be, yep, or trust bodies.

[0:14:11] Trustee Elliott: Maybe trust bodies.

[0:14:13] Trustee Elliott: Trust bodies.

[0:14:13] Trustee Elliott: Yeah, I think it's trust bodies

[0:14:15] Trustee Patrick: is the word we try to use.

[0:14:19] Trustee Elliott: And so, question.

[0:14:21] Trustee Elliott: Yep, please.

[0:14:22] Trustee Patrick: What about

[0:14:23] Trustee Elliott: aligning with strategic plan or operational plans?

[0:14:27] Trustee Patrick: That is generally, that is in there.

[0:14:31] Trustee Patrick: If you look at the other municipalities, so we could put that,

[0:14:34] Trustee Patrick: I think that's establishing clear approval and reporting processes. Approvals being it aligns with the strategic plan, it aligns with your budget. There can be a whole bunch of things, and that could be figured out. We don't need to, I think, get into that detail unless you think it's important to put in there. But I would agree strategic plan alignment is where we're strongly headed.

[0:14:59] Trustee Patrick: No, it's good. I think this is great.

[0:15:01] Trustee Patrick: So if there's no further wordsmithing, if you want, I can make that motion unless someone else feels.

[0:15:08] Trustee Patrick: I'll move that the Regional Planning Committee recommend that Trust Council request staff to revise Policy 654, Grants and Donations Administration, to develop clear guidance for staff and trust bodies when applying for external grant funding opportunities by aligning approval limits with procurement policies and to establish clear approval and reporting processes.

[0:15:29] Trustee Patrick: Is there a second? Seconded by Trustee Graham. Any discussion? I think the only matter I'd say is that, you know, I think we can staff for the minutes, we can note back to this, we note the questions that we ran into with this watershed grant application as an example if someone needs to tie it back to something.

[0:15:57] Trustee Patrick: think i guess it would be in this agenda item too

[0:15:59] Voice 4: so if

[0:16:01] Trustee Patrick: there's no further debate i'll call the

[0:16:03] Trustee Patrick: question all those in favor raise your hands either digitally or wave at me and that is all

[0:16:10] Trustee Patrick: in favor so that carries thank you so much everyone i think clarity is only helpful i think back in

[0:16:19] Trustee Patrick: the old days probably there weren't a lot of very large grants floating around five thousand dollars

[0:16:24] Trustee Patrick: was probably more average when this was written okay so back to the agenda sorry i didn't print

[0:16:35] Trustee Patrick: out the agenda so i'm bouncing back and forth thank you rob so the next item on the agenda is

[0:16:40] Trustee Patrick: we're going to hold off on the business cases so it's the housing action plan tiny homes

[0:16:45] Trustee Patrick: on page 31 who's going to report that one i see that's a trustee boland thanks

[0:16:58] Voice 2: um i'll give you

[0:17:00] Voice 2: you a quick update. I'm the chair of the steering committee and Simon Reid is the project manager

[0:17:09] Voice 2: and Toby really acts as an expert technical advice person with a passion for the subject.

[0:17:18] Voice 2: So we had a few hiccups over Christmas. The project manager was very ill. However, we got

[0:17:26] Voice 2: back on track we had a steering committee meeting and we reviewed the technical charter for the

[0:17:36] Voice 2: sorry the charter for the technical panel with a date planned for February the 13th

[0:17:44] Voice 2: and we have an agenda for that and some very specific sort of questions to be answered.

[0:17:54] Voice 2: In the meantime, Simon was interviewing people to select them for that technical panel, based on experience in construction of tiny homes, in experience with regulation.

[0:18:11] Voice 2: So, for instance, there are people who have constructed tiny homes, small companies, and people from the regional district of Nanaimo.

[0:18:21] Voice 2: And, of course, from the Islands Trust, we have Robert Kojima and Brad Smith.

[0:18:27] Voice 2: So there's a good turnout.

[0:18:29] Voice 2: It's a small group.

[0:18:30] Voice 2: I think it's about nine.

[0:18:32] Voice 2: Simon will facilitate.

[0:18:36] Voice 2: Rob Kroger has very ably assisted in all sorts of administration, including minutes booking and other hiccups along the way.

[0:18:48] Voice 2: so bottom line is the project is on track the completion is aimed for march the 31st which

[0:18:57] Voice 2: will be a closeout report on the technical panel workshop and really the goal is to try and

[0:19:08] Voice 2: identify barriers and identify opportunities and potentially assign or identify action parties for

[0:19:17] Voice 2: some of those opportunities to remove, reduce barriers to allowing tiny homes on wheels

[0:19:24] Voice 2: within the trust area. There's a lot of interest from various people, and people want to see it

[0:19:32] Voice 2: as a kind of a model that can be expanded elsewhere beyond the trust, but the immediate

[0:19:39] Voice 2: focus is to try and limit it to the trust. But it can be taken then as an example and

[0:19:45] Voice 2: used elsewhere. So that's the bottom line. At the moment, we requested and were assigned

[0:19:53] Voice 2: 20,000 from the 30,000 that was for housing initiatives. I believe we're on track to stay

[0:20:03] Voice 2: below that, but there's a small matter of perhaps reallocating. The original contract for the

[0:20:09] Voice 2: the project manager was 16,000 with 4,000 for expenses.

[0:20:16] Voice 2: At the moment, the expenses are coming in below 1,000.

[0:20:20] Voice 2: But at the last steering committee,

[0:20:23] Voice 2: we asked for the length, the duration of the workshop to be expanded.

[0:20:31] Voice 2: And because of that and a knock-on effect into the report,

[0:20:37] Voice 2: the project manager will need more hours and that comes in at three thousand dollars so I have a

[0:20:45] Voice 2: motion if needed but I'm going to ask Stefan to speak to this because it's possible that we don't

[0:20:52] Voice 2: need to make a motion in that we are cumulatively coming in under the twenty thousand but if needed

[0:20:59] Voice 2: we may need a motion just to reallocate the money across that contract boundary so over to you

[0:21:06] Voice 2: Stephen if you could.

[0:21:08] Voice 10: Thank you and through the chair

[0:21:10] Trustee Patrick: first

[0:21:11] Voice 10: congratulations on the work that's

[0:21:13] Voice 10: happening there it's very exciting and it's very trusty led and it's great to hear the all you know

[0:21:18] Voice 10: staff coming together to assist you in that so it's great. I to answer your question directly

[0:21:24] Voice 10: I have put in what we call service contract amendment request form to get that additional

[0:21:31] Voice 10: $3,000 to the contractor as requested. Generally, since the regional planning committee has already

[0:21:38] Voice 10: approved a budget of $20,000, and the breakdown is as you describe, you know, we can move money

[0:21:44] Voice 10: within the budget as needed. It's generally not too much of an issue. However, finance is always

[0:21:51] Voice 10: full of surprises. You think you're doing something right, and then you're not. That's been my last

[0:21:56] Voice 10: two weeks so how about a resolution just to help me in case they come asking and that is simply

[0:22:03] Voice 10: that the regional planning committee um requests the service contract amendment of simon reed

[0:22:10] Voice 10: to be from 16 000 to 19 000 something to that effect that way when nancy or pardon me i should

[0:22:18] Voice 10: name names but when staff eventually get back to me uh it's all kosher i don't think it's needed

[0:22:23] Voice 10: but we're learning resolutions are great so let's do a resolution if possible

[0:22:27] Voice 2: um okay so

[0:22:30] Voice 2: um uh yeah i did prepare something that what i sent you in the email is that adequate stefan

[0:22:38] Voice 10: oh i'm sorry i don't have it open before

[0:22:40] Voice 2: it's okay i i can read it out i just said

[0:22:44] Voice 10: yes

[0:22:44] Voice 2: i move the regional planning committee approves reallocation of funding of 3000

[0:22:49] Voice 2: 000 to support the expansion and scope approved by the steering committee is that okay or do we

[0:22:58] Voice 2: need to make it more specific than that

[0:23:00] Trustee Patrick: since it's a trustee sir mac there i go again uh

[0:23:04] Voice 10: if i may

[0:23:05] Voice 10: just the the it's not expansion and scope of the project it's uh expansion and scope of the

[0:23:10] Voice 10: contract just to specify it's the contract we're talking

[0:23:13] Trustee Elliott: like amending the

[0:23:14] Trustee Elliott: services contract to

[0:23:18] Trustee Elliott: yeah we're amending or requesting that the services contract be amended to

[0:23:24] Trustee Elliott: from 16 000 to 19 000 i think

[0:23:27] Voice 2: okay i'm going to send it to rob right now with that in it so i

[0:23:32] Voice 2: move the regional planning commission approves um extending the contract from sorry my

[0:23:40] Voice 2: Amending. Take our services contract.

[0:23:45] Voice 2: Stefan, why don't you give the wording to Robert, please?

[0:23:50] Voice 10: Well, I see it popping up on the screen before us.

[0:23:53] Voice 2: Okay.

[0:23:54] Voice 10: So perhaps we have time, I think, just to go slow here.

[0:23:59] Trustee Elliott: For the project manager of the Tiny Homes on Wheels project.

[0:24:09] Voice 10: Look at that typing speed. That is clearly above 60 words per minute.

[0:24:12] Voice 10: it yeah

[0:24:13] Trustee Elliott: from 60

[0:24:16] Voice 4: 000 to 19

[0:24:17] Trustee Elliott: 000 yeah to support the and i wouldn't say the expansion just the scope

[0:24:24] Trustee Elliott: approved by the tiny home on wheels steering committee yeah yeah

[0:24:28] Voice 4: perfect and this is more

[0:24:31] Voice 10: of what they say you know cover your behind maneuver assuming that finance even needs it so

[0:24:36] Voice 10: thanks for your support

[0:24:37] Trustee Patrick: trustee elliott more suggestions or no

[0:24:41] Trustee Elliott: i just wanted to speak to

[0:24:42] Trustee Elliott: one brief thing on this okay

[0:24:45] Trustee Patrick: well let's um let's deal with this motion first uh trustee bullen

[0:24:49] Trustee Patrick: would you like to make this motion officially

[0:24:51] Voice 2: um sure yeah i move that the regional planning

[0:24:54] Voice 2: committee approves amending the services contract of the project manager at the tiny homes on wheels

[0:25:00] Voice 2: project from sixteen thousand dollars to nineteen thousand dollars to support the scope approved by

[0:25:07] Voice 2: the tiny homes on wheels steering committee thank

[0:25:11] Trustee Patrick: you is there a second to this project

[0:25:13] Trustee Patrick: second by trustee elliott any discussion trustee elliott yeah

[0:25:19] Trustee Elliott: just a brief note um in the proposal

[0:25:21] Trustee Elliott: that uh rpc did approve um it wasn't specified you know how many workshops or how many meetings

[0:25:29] Trustee Elliott: would happen and how they would occur and so these conversations didn't quite happen and so there was

[0:25:35] Trustee Elliott: was a different expectation by the project manager as as he was talking to the um the technical group

[0:25:42] Trustee Elliott: and then when he brought back a proposal of uh and scoped in two hours for this one in-person

[0:25:48] Trustee Elliott: meeting that's when the steering committee went oh is is that enough time for this one meeting

[0:25:53] Trustee Elliott: so it it was it was a mismatch of expectations and and because of the short time frame there

[0:26:00] Trustee Elliott: There hadn't been communication about how it was going to all happen.

[0:26:04] Trustee Elliott: Simon Reid's been doing a great job.

[0:26:06] Trustee Elliott: He's been getting great responses.

[0:26:08] Trustee Elliott: It just wasn't, yeah, it's been a short, short project.

[0:26:13] Trustee Elliott: So the proposal going through so quickly and then the steering committee going, no, we'd like this to be a more fulsome day.

[0:26:21] Trustee Elliott: And so, yeah, he had to allocate more hours to that.

[0:26:24] Trustee Elliott: So thanks for everyone's support.

[0:26:25] Trustee Elliott: it's been going ahead quite fast and uh it's on track though we're going to get a report by

[0:26:32] Trustee Elliott: march 31st i'm

[0:26:34] Trustee Patrick: excited all right any further discussion i'll call the vote all those in favor

[0:26:42] Trustee Patrick: and that once again is everyone so that carries thank you i was going to also add uh we i received

[0:26:50] Trustee Patrick: a reach out from a squamish uh municipal consular um asking about tiny homes connected them in and

[0:26:57] Trustee Patrick: And Trustee Elliott gave him the full rundown of where we were, and he was ecstatic.

[0:27:02] Trustee Patrick: They're going to be moving forward with a UBCM resolution as well.

[0:27:07] Trustee Patrick: So while we've got AVICC where this conversation will be happening, it looks like we'll have some traction hopefully going to UBCM.

[0:27:18] Trustee Patrick: And I think it's kind of cool to see all the different councils and regional districts that are coming together and working together to really try to move this conversation up a notch.

[0:27:31] Trustee Patrick: So thank you, Trustee Elliott, for your inspiration to a lot of folks to get going on this.

[0:27:37] Trustee Patrick: So thanks.

[0:27:39] Trustee Patrick: Any other questions on this agenda item?

[0:27:43] Trustee Patrick: I do notice, as usual, I go flying past the follow-up action list.

[0:27:47] Trustee Patrick: I don't know why, I just do. So let's back up slightly. Item 6.3 was the follow-up action list

[0:27:55] Trustee Patrick: on page 11 of the agenda. Were there any comments from staff?

[0:28:05] Voice 10: If you like, Chair, I'll just briefly

[0:28:08] Voice 10: give a rundown as I see the state of affairs and a few sort of extraneous comments, and I'll just

[0:28:14] Voice 10: launch into that. So item one, make sure I've got the right item there. Oops, I had the ECs open.

[0:28:21] Voice 10: Okay, that the RPC schedule, number one, you know, it's an older one, the, if you notice, it was deferred for several reasons over time, having an online education session about the housing options toolkit, and it was deferred the last time, as you note in the final sentence there, in favor of this tiny homes on wheels sessions and stuff.

[0:28:44] Voice 10: So I'm not sure what the RPC would like to do in terms of this housing options toolkit.

[0:28:50] Voice 10: There's many components to it.

[0:28:52] Voice 10: Right now, Hornby Island is meeting to review their suitable land analysis in a special projects meeting.

[0:29:00] Voice 10: So that's a component of this, as well as many other components.

[0:29:05] Voice 10: So I feel like we haven't delivered on that the way you originally intended.

[0:29:08] Voice 10: And we've been sort of trying to prioritize, you know, as per your request, the tiny homes and wheels.

[0:29:15] Voice 10: But I will take your guidance on where to go with this.

[0:29:18] Voice 10: I'm kind of feeling like it'll be pushed off forever unless we get to a clearer direction, I think.

[0:29:23] Voice 10: So I'm going to pause there before we go through the rest of them.

[0:29:26] Voice 2: Trustee Golden.

[0:29:30] Voice 2: I'm really keen to see some sort of you know update education session because there is a lot

[0:29:40] Voice 2: of good work there and there's a lot of material actually speaking of the tiny holes and wheels

[0:29:46] Voice 2: I actually went in and took a look and referenced that in the original material we prepared

[0:29:53] Voice 2: heard well one of the gaps was the suitable land analysis tool which

[0:30:00] Voice 2: I believe, was supposed to be shown to us.

[0:30:04] Voice 2: It has to be delivered in the website,

[0:30:07] Voice 2: but that's quite a while ago.

[0:30:10] Voice 2: So I'm very curious to know the status

[0:30:12] Voice 2: and when we in general can actually get a presentation

[0:30:20] Voice 2: or some kind of insight.

[0:30:22] Voice 2: I think we did have one once, but it was very perfunctory

[0:30:25] Voice 2: and it was PDF snapshots of screens.

[0:30:29] Voice 2: So I am really keen to see the guts

[0:30:32] Voice 2: and to see it actually working in action.

[0:30:36] Voice 2: And I believe it will be usable.

[0:30:39] Voice 2: It will, you know, please tell me,

[0:30:41] Voice 2: is it going to be a trustee usable tool or not?

[0:30:48] Voice 2: Thanks.

[0:30:50] Trustee Patrick: Director Cermak, did you want to respond to that question?

[0:30:53] Voice 10: I think I might call a friend here.

[0:30:58] Voice 10: RPM Kojima, he's been working closely with it. I will say that the actual usability of the product

[0:31:05] Voice 10: is being focused on the OCP projects of Denman, Orne, is this, do I have that right? Gabriola

[0:31:11] Voice 10: and Maine. So that's where it's usable at its moment. It's got a solid draft, but in terms of

[0:31:20] Voice 10: its overall usability and stuff, maybe I'm going to turn it over to RPM Kojima so he can speak in

[0:31:25] Voice 10: more detail thanks

[0:31:27] Voice 5: stefan and through the chair

[0:31:28] Voice 5: so yeah the suitable land analysis there was an

[0:31:32] Voice 5: early version preview probably over a year ago now um and then the project was stalled basically

[0:31:39] Voice 5: because we lost um mapping staff we didn't have the mapping staff to carry on with it um we were

[0:31:46] Voice 5: able to get a contractor to pick up that work and that work is now being being rolled out as

[0:31:54] Voice 5: was mentioned. So in terms of interaction with community and

[0:32:03] Voice 5: trustees, that's what these special meetings are intended to

[0:32:08] Voice 5: do is to provide trustees with an understanding of what the

[0:32:15] Voice 5: tool is, basically, some know, some are more familiar with it

[0:32:17] Voice 5: than others. And then to give the local trustees the

[0:32:22] Voice 5: opportunity to make adjustments to it um it has a waiting component if those of you attended the

[0:32:29] Voice 5: workshop a while ago remember there's the different layers the different data layers and

[0:32:37] Voice 5: trustees can choose to weight some of them more than others depending on the circumstances of

[0:32:41] Voice 5: their community and some layers they may not even feel are relevant or appropriate for their

[0:32:47] Voice 5: community and so those layers can be removed so in that sense the suitable land analysis can be

[0:32:53] Voice 5: customized if you like the different communities and as stefan said the priority is to get it done

[0:32:59] Voice 5: for those local trust areas that are doing major ocp reviews and other major projects currently

[0:33:07] Trustee Patrick: except salt spring oh sorry um for whatever reason okay trustee elliott thanks yeah so

[0:33:16] Trustee Elliott: So following on that, for instance, Gabriela has scheduled a special meeting, I think it's

[0:33:23] Trustee Elliott: next Friday, and it will be, you know, live streamed as usual.

[0:33:28] Trustee Elliott: And they're going to walk us through the suitable land analysis component as a function of the

[0:33:36] Trustee Elliott: OCP review housing policies.

[0:33:38] Trustee Elliott: So I could forward links to that so you could observe, our RPC members could observe Maine

[0:33:44] Trustee Elliott: Island is doing the same thing.

[0:33:46] Trustee Elliott: But my understanding is because it's island specific, they're really just inviting the trustees or the LTC to review it

[0:33:54] Trustee Elliott: because they might have input, you know, sort of on the ground, qualitative data or questions that they want to ask

[0:34:07] Trustee Elliott: or sort of saying why is that area being identified to dig deeper into their specific island landscape.

[0:34:14] Trustee Elliott: So, yeah, so as far as Maine and Gabriel are concerned, I sit on both those LTCs and I could forward the links for those special meetings. I'm assuming they'd be live streamed and people could watch if that's of interest.

[0:34:28] Trustee Elliott: All

[0:34:30] Trustee Patrick: right. Thank you. The one comment I would have is, sorry, before is I know Trustee Evans has been raising at every Trust Council meeting an expectation that we would return to Trust Council with the housing toolkit and strategic plan that she brings up every meeting saying she felt it was rushed and that we didn't really understand or portray that out.

[0:34:55] Trustee Patrick: And I think as regional planning chair, I keep saying, yes, we'll come back, we'll come back.

[0:35:00] Trustee Patrick: So I'm wondering if this could be more focused to trust council somehow, either so that they're more familiar with the product.

[0:35:10] Trustee Patrick: You have the islands that are becoming familiar, that are working their way through the OCPs.

[0:35:19] Trustee Patrick: But anyway, Director Cermak.

[0:35:25] Voice 10: Thank you, Chair.

[0:35:26] Voice 10: chair so just for i i think that's that's great direction i think that's what i was looking for

[0:35:32] Voice 10: in this um follow-up action list in terms of conducting a an online education session for

[0:35:39] Voice 10: the housing options toolkit what i'm hearing is an interest in focusing that online education

[0:35:43] Voice 10: session through for all the trustees uh focusing on the suitable land analysis what it is

[0:35:49] Voice 10: and what it is not or am i hearing that wrong i

[0:35:53] Trustee Patrick: think it's the whole tool the questions that

[0:35:55] Trustee Patrick: that have been talked about at Trust Council

[0:35:56] Trustee Patrick: has been the entire product that we introduced,

[0:36:00] Trustee Patrick: which was,

[0:36:01] Trustee Patrick: I think, the toolkit and the strategic plan back.

[0:36:05] Trustee Patrick: It's been questioned a couple of times.

[0:36:08] Trustee Patrick: The trustees didn't feel we had done a sufficient deep dive

[0:36:11] Trustee Patrick: into explaining what all we had,

[0:36:13] Trustee Patrick: and now we've got some experience.

[0:36:14] Trustee Patrick: So I think, yes, the suitable land analysis

[0:36:16] Trustee Patrick: will be of curiosity,

[0:36:18] Trustee Patrick: but I think it's the whole suite of tools.

[0:36:20] Trustee Patrick: What's available, where is it, how is it?

[0:36:23] Trustee Patrick: I don't think, you know, I think that's what I hope

[0:36:26] Trustee Patrick: was expected i don't know if anyone else recalls but what we have talked about at trust council

[0:36:33] Trustee Patrick: trustee elliott well

[0:36:35] Trustee Elliott: and there there might be an interesting opportunity so i just want to

[0:36:38] Trustee Elliott: linger on this so last night committee of the whole went through uh some housing policies

[0:36:43] Trustee Elliott: for the policy statement amendment project and a question that i keep having and bringing back

[0:36:49] Trustee Elliott: to staff is how do the policies that we're drafting link to our ocps that we want as

[0:36:55] Trustee Elliott: visionary documents for the future. Trustees are starting to articulate, well, these are the

[0:37:03] Trustee Elliott: issues and the things that I think my community wants to see, different housing types and forms,

[0:37:10] Trustee Elliott: low-impact dwellings, and that kind of language. And some of that is reflected in the housing

[0:37:16] Trustee Elliott: options toolkit, the policy options there. So the two are starting to link up, but

[0:37:21] Trustee Elliott: But I think it would be helpful to have a presentation led by whoever, regional planning team, which could also sink in implementation.

[0:37:35] Trustee Elliott: What do the policy state, because I know staff are turning their minds to that as well.

[0:37:41] Trustee Elliott: So what does the implementation of this policy at this level with the OCP level and then land use bylaws?

[0:37:50] Trustee Elliott: So I don't know how these could be integrated, but I think we need to think about this because we're right in the crux of it right now, the policy statement project. Thank you.

[0:38:01] Trustee Patrick: No, you're correct, Trustee Elliott. And I think when we introduced this, we talked about this being a live documents. The realm of housing and the changes and legislation and everything else is changing at high speed. And we're getting on the ground experience as we make our way through the OCPs.

[0:38:19] Trustee Patrick: So I think we want to make sure that these tools don't just sit stagnant, that we keep

[0:38:27] Trustee Patrick: them up to date.

[0:38:28] Trustee Patrick: For example, we're going to learn a lot from the tiny homework that we're working on.

[0:38:32] Trustee Patrick: There could be a tool coming that would be related to that or one that we want to prioritize

[0:38:39] Trustee Patrick: the work along those lines.

[0:38:40] Trustee Patrick: So I think there would be a good idea to expose trustees to what's available, what's going

[0:38:47] Trustee Patrick: on.

[0:38:48] Trustee Patrick: I like you know trustee Elliot let's make sure we have the alignment are there gaps are there

[0:38:52] Trustee Patrick: things that we didn't address in the toolkit that are could be how well and then you know

[0:38:59] Trustee Patrick: hopefully establish some priorities to what is the next bit of work that needs to be done so that

[0:39:05] Trustee Patrick: we're always kind of looking forward trustee Boland just

[0:39:09] Voice 2: building on that before the next

[0:39:11] Voice 2: committee of the whole meeting because of course trust council is further out than that

[0:39:17] Voice 2: Could we remind everybody of the content that's there that might be applicable to the housing policies that we're looking at?

[0:39:32] Voice 2: I know the whole thing is possibly applicable, but there might be some parts of it that have content and language that we could just cut and paste

[0:39:45] Voice 2: without going through what he went through last night which was designing policies on the fly

[0:39:52] Voice 2: which was painful um so yeah i don't know if maybe um somebody in your team stefan could take that

[0:40:02] Voice 2: action it doesn't have to be a big deal thing but you know just say please remember that this

[0:40:07] Voice 2: section of the trust policy statement this material could help you would that be possible

[0:40:15] Voice 2: Well,

[0:40:15] Voice 10: through the chair, I did bring that up, not last night's Committee of the Whole, but the previous Committee of the Whole meeting.

[0:40:23] Voice 10: You might recall I spoke, I guess, or me, it wasn't an actual official meeting.

[0:40:28] Voice 10: It was an informal non-meeting, but I did bring it up then.

[0:40:32] Voice 10: And I reminded everybody that we have these tools available.

[0:40:35] Voice 10: And I spoke to, not at length about them, but longer than I usually do in a Committee of the Whole meeting.

[0:40:42] Voice 10: um i i you know i don't mind bringing it up and sharing with this certainly uh the uh senior

[0:40:50] Voice 10: policy advisor yeomans it's hard not to call him planner yeomans um is is aware of the tool he

[0:40:56] Voice 10: helped uh design a lot of it so finding that bridge i'm hearing the interest and i and i

[0:41:02] Voice 10: intuitively understand where we're going said hey you're working on the policy statement um you have

[0:41:07] Voice 10: these housing options toolkits. The toolkit is quite extensive, so doing any orientation to it

[0:41:15] Voice 10: could be exhaustive. I don't think we have enough time to go and comprehend it. It would just have

[0:41:20] Voice 10: to be a high-level review. But I'm hearing two things then. Trying to give a broader review to

[0:41:27] Voice 10: the whole toolkit and remind trustees that it's there and how they can use it. Meanwhile, hey,

[0:41:34] Voice 10: hey, we're going through the policy statement review,

[0:41:37] Voice 10: focus on these parts of the toolkit,

[0:41:40] Voice 10: and then as well, tiny homes slotted in and amended.

[0:41:44] Voice 10: So I'm kind of getting a little bit cross-wired

[0:41:46] Voice 10: where the priority is there.

[0:41:48] Voice 10: Certainly internally staff will, I can commit to that.

[0:41:52] Voice 10: I will talk directly with, not Planner Yeomans,

[0:41:56] Voice 10: with the policy statement team,

[0:41:58] Voice 10: and we can review that to some degree,

[0:42:01] Voice 10: but I'm trying to get clear direction.

[0:42:03] Voice 10: I don't think we can pivot too quick with more staffing resources.

[0:42:06] Voice 10: We're quite stretched with resources.

[0:42:08] Voice 10: So I guess what I'm asking is a little more clarity amongst those three

[0:42:12] Voice 10: deliverables. If we're going with, you know,

[0:42:15] Voice 10: I can pitch trust council review of our orientation to this post the end of

[0:42:22] Voice 10: the fiscal type thing. It'd have to be down there.

[0:42:25] Voice 10: Okay.

[0:42:26] Voice 2: I'll take an action.

[0:42:27] Voice 2: I will dig into the toolkit and send a reminder to everybody before the

[0:42:33] Voice 2: the next casualty of the whole that references material in there with respect to the housing

[0:42:40] Voice 2: policies and we'll wait until trust council and thanks for the chat that you had the last time

[0:42:47] Voice 2: that i wasn't present for but oh

[0:42:49] Voice 10: no thanks well and if i may oops sorry go ahead chair

[0:42:55] Voice 10: tool three the zoning and policy options table is probably what you're looking for most

[0:43:02] Voice 10: all the other stuff is great lots of discussion and stuff like that but um tool three the zoning

[0:43:09] Voice 10: and policy options table is is i think what you're focusing on so if that's what you're

[0:43:14] Voice 10: going to do trustee bull and i would emphasize starting there i

[0:43:18] Trustee Patrick: see um rpm kojima's hand raised

[0:43:21] Trustee Patrick: go ahead thank

[0:43:22] Voice 5: you chair just to briefly it's been some time since the rpc looked at the toolkit

[0:43:28] Voice 5: kit as a body and it's sometimes since it was endorsed i think it's

[0:43:32] Voice 5: well over a year now and

[0:43:34] Voice 5: there are some things probably to be updated with the document so the suitable land analysis

[0:43:39] Voice 5: methodology to be included um sort of updated version of that and expanding on the tiny homes

[0:43:47] Voice 5: but the two that come to mind and so perhaps as a first step it's you know when we're able to we

[0:43:53] Voice 5: bring it back the document back to rpc um with some suggested updates and revisions and then rpc

[0:44:03] Voice 5: endorse those changes or whatever chooses to do

[0:44:06] Voice 5: and then we schedule the the workshop

[0:44:13] Trustee Patrick: trustee elliott yes

[0:44:16] Trustee Elliott: um i was going to propose something to to request that regional planning

[0:44:21] Trustee Elliott: team scope a presentation for a future date this could be a year from now and

[0:44:27] Trustee Elliott: then I think what you suggested Robert is good because there needs to be an

[0:44:32] Trustee Elliott: update so I don't think putting a timeline on it but I do think so if

[0:44:37] Trustee Elliott: directions needed would it be something like requesting that regional planning

[0:44:41] Trustee Elliott: team scope or plan a presentation for trustees that links the sorry it should

[0:44:49] Trustee Elliott: should be policy statement housing policy options and tool three of the housing options toolkit

[0:44:56] Trustee Elliott: and potential implementation for ltcs it's like i'd love to just see a two-hour

[0:45:05] Trustee Elliott: workshopping of here is how a policy in the policy statement um would connect to

[0:45:13] Trustee Elliott: your ocp um and then back up again if this if this is the kind of housing you want to see in

[0:45:18] Trustee Elliott: your community this is the kind of policy that would need to be in place in your OCP

[0:45:22] Trustee Elliott: and this is the policy that has to be present in the policy statement that linking is the

[0:45:31] Trustee Elliott: it's the logic tree for policy development and right now we're still flailing I want to make

[0:45:37] Trustee Elliott: sure there's coherence in all of these pieces as they're developing and so yeah just a future

[0:45:45] Trustee Elliott: presentation or a workshop that pulls these three together so i'll just leave it there it's in the

[0:45:49] Trustee Elliott: chat if um anyone's got any ideas that are more articulate um

[0:45:56] Trustee Patrick: thank you i have a question as well

[0:45:58] Trustee Patrick: as um we did have outstanding work for like the second phase of working with partners

[0:46:04] Trustee Patrick: um on the toolkit um is that work continuing or is that not occurring

[0:46:14] Trustee Patrick: I guess I direct that to Director Zermack.

[0:46:20] Trustee Patrick: I know we had the whole second piece

[0:46:22] Trustee Patrick: of working with partners.

[0:46:26] Voice 10: Well, again, the chair,

[0:46:29] Voice 10: I'm not sure I can answer that question correctly

[0:46:31] Voice 10: other than to say that the implementation plan

[0:46:34] Voice 10: that we have is working with various agencies

[0:46:37] Voice 10: and what have you through the action plan.

[0:46:42] Voice 10: But that's slightly different

[0:46:43] Voice 10: than what we're talking about the options toolkit.

[0:46:45] Voice 10: So we're certainly working with partners

[0:46:48] Voice 10: to implement housing strategic action plan.

[0:46:53] Trustee Patrick: Oh, I can't read

[0:46:54] Trustee Patrick: that myself.

[0:46:55] Voice 10: Oh, yeah.

[0:46:55] Voice 10: Yeah, perhaps if I can, Chair.

[0:46:58] Voice 10: So what I was thinking,

[0:46:59] Voice 10: we got stuck on this number one

[0:47:01] Voice 10: follow-up action report item,

[0:47:03] Voice 10: and we're kind of proposing

[0:47:05] Voice 10: a bit of a segue from here.

[0:47:07] Voice 10: And I'm trying to turn over a new leaf

[0:47:10] Voice 10: to make this as clean

[0:47:11] Voice 10: and up-to-date as possible.

[0:47:14] Voice 10: You know, if there's any direction

[0:47:16] Voice 10: to change this particular

[0:47:18] Voice 10: follow-up action list item, go for it, and then we can change the editing. If not, I really do

[0:47:26] Voice 10: support the idea that we bring the housing options toolkit back for the RPC to discuss in more detail

[0:47:30] Voice 10: so we're not kind of just winging it, although that doesn't meet Trustee Elliott's desire to

[0:47:35] Voice 10: have something necessarily between now and the next meeting in April. But then that might be

[0:47:41] Voice 10: perfect timing as we're heading out to the communities for discussion on a policy statement,

[0:47:46] Voice 10: assuming that it gets adopted or first reading sorry in june i

[0:47:53] Trustee Elliott: was thinking immediately sorry

[0:47:55] Trustee Elliott: to interrupt like this is like a year from now i think robert's uh recommendation is good that we

[0:48:01] Trustee Elliott: this comes back to rpc um update and then planning a presentation for trustees potentially sorry to

[0:48:10] Trustee Elliott: interrupt thank

[0:48:12] Voice 10: you so if i may again i'm sorry to jump into the conversation it would be nice to

[0:48:16] Voice 10: to just remove this follow-up action list

[0:48:18] Voice 10: because it's old and it's stale, kind of from 2022,

[0:48:21] Voice 10: request staff to report back

[0:48:23] Voice 10: with an updated housing options toolkit,

[0:48:25] Voice 10: and then from then that you can schedule up for it.

[0:48:28] Voice 10: That's my request.

[0:48:30] Trustee Patrick: I disagree a little bit

[0:48:32] Trustee Patrick: because our annual budget process kicks off this summer.

[0:48:37] Trustee Patrick: So while we have people working now,

[0:48:40] Trustee Patrick: I know we're getting towards the twilight of this term,

[0:48:44] Trustee Patrick: term but um housing is still an issue that's quite important to a number of islands that

[0:48:50] Trustee Patrick: may or may not be contemplating a project still this term so i think we owe going back to trust

[0:48:59] Trustee Patrick: council whether or not and i think i'd look at the executive committee of you know i know june

[0:49:03] Trustee Patrick: starts to pile up with what what's going to be on the agenda um but we do need to bring the

[0:49:09] Trustee Patrick: the trustees attention to this work as they're contemplating trust policy statements. So I think

[0:49:14] Trustee Patrick: that that's an easy, you know, reminder out to trustees, here it is, go start reading and focus

[0:49:20] Trustee Patrick: them on certain tools. But to bring it back to trust counsel with, here's the areas that, you

[0:49:28] Trustee Patrick: know, we're going, you know, we're identifying that needs to have work, you know, are there other

[0:49:34] Trustee Patrick: other gaps, as well as using it to inspire them to think of what they're hoping to do,

[0:49:42] Trustee Patrick: if that makes sense. So I think it's more urgent than waiting a year to go back to Trust Council.

[0:49:48] Trustee Patrick: And I think there is an expectation that Trust Council will have to dig up if there's a motion

[0:49:52] Trustee Patrick: or not, but it's been brought up at least twice by Trustee Evans, I know, making it clear that

[0:49:57] Trustee Patrick: the expectation is that we're going to come present this. Trustee Elliott.

[0:50:02] Trustee Elliott: Okay, I hear you.

[0:50:04] Trustee Elliott: Is it in scope or would it be too much to request that staff update the Islands Trust Community Housing Options Toolkit for the next RPC meeting?

[0:50:17] Trustee Elliott: And that would be in May.

[0:50:20] Trustee Elliott: And then once we have that update, can that be turned into a briefing for Trust Council in June?

[0:50:26] Trustee Elliott: June, at least there's an opportunity to present or refresh council on, you know,

[0:50:35] Trustee Elliott: while the toolkit is live, it's being updated. I think you're right, Chair Patrick, that this

[0:50:41] Trustee Elliott: should be still a live piece of work. And then we can ask council, do you want a presentation

[0:50:50] Trustee Elliott: on that and they can allocate some time and maybe resources um or just see how much time regional

[0:50:58] Trustee Elliott: planning team has so uh yeah i just i think simply just a request that the housing options

[0:51:07] Trustee Elliott: toolkit be updated and brought back to rpc for consideration with the latest policy options

[0:51:16] Trustee Elliott: i

[0:51:18] Trustee Patrick: guess i'll look to staff and rpm kojima i heard you suggesting potentially options come first what

[0:51:24] Trustee Patrick: What would make sense for staff in the time that you have on your?

[0:51:29] Voice 10: I'll just throw it in there before Robert speaks.

[0:51:32] Voice 10: I think the timing works well, as mentioned.

[0:51:35] Voice 10: Bring it back in May so that we can present something to June Trust Council.

[0:51:41] Voice 10: And from that, we could, if necessary, then schedule some of the online sessions.

[0:51:49] Voice 10: Robert?

[0:51:50] Voice 5: Yeah, thanks, Stephan and Chair.

[0:51:53] Voice 5: Yeah, I think we can bring it back for May.

[0:51:58] Voice 5: um you know this is housing generally i think it's the housing strategy implementation is is

[0:52:04] Voice 5: one of the top priorities for our pc and so that sort of phase two of the tool of the toolkit that

[0:52:11] Voice 5: was brought up by your chair um that's when it was kind of put on hold with the tiny homes uh

[0:52:18] Voice 5: on wheels project kind of taking the top taking the top priority um so yeah i think we can bring

[0:52:26] Voice 5: back an updated version of the housing toolkit for the may meeting

[0:52:35] Trustee Patrick: do you need a resolution to that extent i

[0:52:38] Voice 5: think we should get a resolution and like uh stefan said

[0:52:41] Voice 5: uh you know when we get an updated follow-up action item as well that's clearer than trying

[0:52:46] Voice 5: to amend the the one that's what is it now three years old

[0:52:51] Trustee Elliott: trustee elliott okay so i move that

[0:52:56] Trustee Elliott: that uh regional planning committee requests staff to uh provide options for no to update

[0:53:07] Trustee Elliott: the islands trust community housing options toolkit and housing strategic plan housing

[0:53:21] Trustee Elliott: Housing, what is it called?

[0:53:23] Trustee Elliott: HSAP action plan, housing strategic action plan, comma,

[0:53:30] Trustee Elliott: and provide options for a presentation for trustees at a future date.

[0:53:39] Trustee Elliott: Oh,

[0:53:43] Trustee Patrick: Rob, let's see what he's got here.

[0:53:45] Trustee Patrick: Thank you.

[0:53:45] Trustee Patrick: No seconding.

[0:53:47] Trustee Patrick: Let's just work it.

[0:53:50] Voice 11: Whoops.

[0:53:51] Voice 11: Does

[0:54:12] Trustee Patrick: that make sense?

[0:54:14] Trustee Patrick: Suggestions?

[0:54:15] Trustee Patrick: Not seeing any thinking here.

[0:54:17] Trustee Patrick: Do we need for May, for the May meeting after strategic action plan for the May RPC meeting, I think would be good because then there's a date. Director Cermak?

[0:54:40] Voice 10: I was going to say a date isn't necessary, but if you'd like, it's fine.

[0:54:44] Voice 10: I like dates.

[0:54:46] Voice 10: Understood.

[0:54:48] Trustee Patrick: All right. Any other workings? If there isn't someone there who's going to make that motion? Trustee Elliott, I guess. Go ahead.

[0:54:56] Trustee Patrick: sorry

[0:54:58] Trustee Elliott: i move the regional planning committee request staff to update the islands trust

[0:55:02] Trustee Elliott: housing options toolkit and housing strategic action plan for the may regional planning

[0:55:07] Trustee Elliott: committee meeting and provide options for a presentation for trustees at a future date

[0:55:13] Trustee Elliott: and comma sorry before i finish including the suitable land analysis well

[0:55:20] Trustee Patrick: that would be part

[0:55:20] Trustee Patrick: of the update they would that would just be there so i don't think you need to specify

[0:55:24] Trustee Patrick: perfect thank you so much is there a second to that i see trustee graham any discussion i'll

[0:55:33] Trustee Patrick: call the vote all those in favor not again is everyone so that carried um before we have another

[0:55:42] Trustee Patrick: word because we have two minutes is going to go fast i believe we're had a hard stop at 11 o'clock

[0:55:47] Trustee Patrick: and i think is our speaker here um director sir mac and did we want to move into that

[0:55:54] Trustee Patrick: conversation?

[0:56:02] Voice 10: Sorry, I was clicking the wrong button. I don't see him here as a panelist,

[0:56:08] Voice 10: and I know that Rob Coker sent the invite, and we confirmed it. And if I may then, just while I

[0:56:15] Voice 10: have the floor, the follow-up request about that resolution in the follow-up action list,

[0:56:22] Voice 10: I think the resolution you just made updates it well, and that with your blessing, RPC,

[0:56:28] Voice 10: see that we removed that from the follow-up action list it's been refreshed and reprioritized to

[0:56:33] Voice 10: update the housing options toolkit and to

[0:56:35] Voice 10: schedule a future presentation he is

[0:56:39] Voice 10: here oh there he is

[0:56:40] Voice 10: yeah so

[0:56:41] Voice 10: that's my final thought on that resolution if if you wish to pass such a uh or we can do by

[0:56:47] Voice 10: general consent that we remove it from the follow-up action list um

[0:56:50] Trustee Patrick: okay uh through general

[0:56:51] Trustee Patrick: consent we will remove item number one from the from february 2022 from the follow-up action list

[0:56:59] Trustee Patrick: I've got your permission.

[0:57:00] Trustee Patrick: There we go.

[0:57:00] Trustee Patrick: So now it's in the minutes.

[0:57:03] Trustee Patrick: All right.

[0:57:04] Trustee Patrick: And we're going to hard stop here because if we say another word, we'll be screaming

[0:57:07] Trustee Patrick: past 11 o'clock.

[0:57:09] Trustee Patrick: So I'm going to turn it over to Director Cermak.

[0:57:12] Voice 10: Thank you.

[0:57:14] Voice 10: And welcome to Brendan Daw.

[0:57:16] Voice 10: I'd like to introduce Brendan Daw to the group.

[0:57:18] Voice 10: He's the Vice President of Housing Economics with Urbanics Consultants.

[0:57:23] Voice 10: I've had the pleasure of working with that team before, but not Brendan.

[0:57:26] Voice 10: Brandon. They did some great work on Salt Spring Island regarding industrial land uses.

[0:57:31] Voice 10: Brandon has extensive experience in urban planning and market analysis with an emphasis on involving

[0:57:39] Voice 10: developments in housing and land use policy in BC. In our conversations, he mentioned doing,

[0:57:45] Voice 10: I think it was 30 plus, but I may have just misremembered the number. He did a lot of

[0:57:49] Voice 10: housing needs reports due to the change in legislation and he's doing them for all the LTCs.

[0:57:56] Voice 10: the purpose of the presentation. I'll leave to him and discuss, but it's my pleasure to welcome

[0:58:01] Voice 10: Brendan. Over to you.

[0:58:04] Trustee Patrick: Well, over to you.

[0:58:08] Voice 8: Well, thank you so much for that introduction. Yes,

[0:58:10] Voice 8: I am Brendan Dahl, Vice President of Urbanics Consultants, and I'd like to thank everyone here

[0:58:14] Voice 8: for a moment of your time to discuss our ongoing underway housing needs assessment process.

[0:58:19] Voice 8: So let me just pull up my presentation here.

[0:58:36] Voice 4: It's just trying to... Okay.

[0:58:50] Voice 8: There we go. So

[0:58:51] Voice 8: So that should be visible here. So yes, we are undertaking the housing needs assessment. We're

[0:58:55] Voice 8: working with your lovely team and we've been talking to your lovely constituents and looking

[0:59:00] Voice 8: forward to moving forward with this underway project. So let's move along here. Why is this

[0:59:10] Voice 8: not? Ah, so the first thing I'd like to discuss is the methodology. The main thing that has brought

[0:59:16] Voice 8: this housing needs assessment down is a provincial requirement for all municipalities, electoral

[0:59:22] Voice 8: territorial areas, islands, trust areas to update their housing needs assessments using a new

[0:59:29] Voice 8: methodology that's been provided by the province as of last June. So the provincial methodology

[0:59:34] Voice 8: ensures that there's a somewhat standardized set of numbers that Victoria can look across the

[0:59:38] Voice 8: province and sort of judge and compare and with relatively apples to apples comparisons.

[0:59:47] Voice 8: comparisons. So there's six components to this methodology. The first part is extreme core housing

[0:59:53] Voice 8: need. So this would be enough housing to replace the number of households who have to spend more

[0:59:59] Voice 8: than...

[1:00:00] Voice 8: half of their income on their housing costs. That's what that population is. The next component

[1:00:07] Voice 8: is regional homelessness. So that's enough housing to provide one house per homeless person in the

[1:00:15] Voice 8: regional district or area as defined as apportioned by population. The next component is suppressed

[1:00:23] Voice 8: household formation. This is my personal favorite part that they've included here. Suppressed

[1:00:27] Voice 8: household formation is supposed to capture the extent to which, because housing has gotten

[1:00:34] Voice 8: generally more expensive in British Columbia, that people are less likely to form households.

[1:00:41] Voice 8: So one example would be someone who turned 19, and instead of moving out and renting an apartment

[1:00:47] Voice 8: or buying a small house, they are much more likely than they were previously to live with

[1:00:54] Voice 8: their parents. You might have a situation where couples move in together or don't move out when

[1:00:59] Voice 8: they break apart because of housing costs. And so this shows up in a reduced likelihood

[1:01:05] Voice 8: of people to form households. And so using 2006 as an anchoring date, we're comparing the

[1:01:12] Voice 8: rate of household formation by age and tenure from 2021-2006 to try and estimate just how much

[1:01:22] Voice 8: there's been a squeeze on household formation. The next component is projected population growth.

[1:01:27] Voice 8: So for this, we're taking BC stats estimates for proximate jurisdictions and it's based on

[1:01:34] Voice 8: an average of regional district and local area growth rates over the next five and 20 years

[1:01:42] Voice 8: to estimate how many households that will require. For the most part, especially for areas that are

[1:01:48] Voice 8: not municipalities, projected population growth is generally the largest driver of the housing

[1:01:55] Voice 8: needs counts. And this can include, somewhat counterintuitively, places that have flat or

[1:02:00] Voice 8: falling population, because it is generally expected that over time household, sorry,

[1:02:05] Voice 8: average household size will fall, which means that, you know, a thousand people will require

[1:02:09] Voice 8: more homes than they did 20 years ago. There's a small adjustment for rental vacancy rates

[1:02:16] Voice 8: where data is available we use CMHC annual rental vacancy rate data for 2021

[1:02:23] Voice 8: however this is a very odd piece of methodology it adds a handful of housing

[1:02:28] Voice 8: to every jurisdiction studied and then lastly for municipalities just Bowen

[1:02:33] Voice 8: Island but not applying to other areas there is the demand factor which is a

[1:02:37] Voice 8: black box number handed down by the province by how much to multiply your

[1:02:42] Voice 8: findings by um that there is it's it's poorly documented i wish i could say more about what

[1:02:48] Voice 8: it was but the province says jump you know this high to all the municipalities and and that is uh

[1:02:53] Voice 8: that is what the demand factor is so this is drawing upon cmhc data census data uh 2021 census

[1:03:00] Voice 8: most in particular um bc stats calculations estimates as well as uh local data from uh

[1:03:07] Voice 8: uh, your, your, uh, your colleagues here. So this has been an exciting project. A key component of

[1:03:14] Voice 8: this that we've been, uh, on underway part of the process is, uh, our community engagement

[1:03:18] Voice 8: component. So we are working on talking to various stakeholders, local governments,

[1:03:23] Voice 8: business, first nations, societies, nonprofits, uh, to get their input. Um, in addition, there is

[1:03:29] Voice 8: on February 4th, uh, the regional district staff completed the online community survey, which had

[1:03:34] Voice 8: at 893 responses, which is I believe actually the largest survey response that we've had in this

[1:03:42] Voice 8: cycle of housing needs assessments. So I'm very happy that your constituents have engaged with

[1:03:47] Voice 8: this survey to an unusually large degree. The largest population shares were notably from

[1:03:52] Voice 8: Salt Spring and Galliano, somewhat of a light representation for more populous areas like

[1:03:58] Voice 8: Bowen Island, although that is understandable given that they've done their own housing needs

[1:04:02] Voice 8: assessment there. So, I do would like to speak to some of the limitations that we are looking at

[1:04:10] Voice 8: here. The provincial methodology, well, it does create apples to apples numbers. It is not a

[1:04:20] Voice 8: methodology rooted in the economic viability of what's being proposed. You know, if we come out

[1:04:26] Voice 8: and say that you need to build 100 homes, that doesn't necessarily mean that anyone can actually

[1:04:32] Voice 8: sit down and build those 100 homes without subsidy. It's not a market-tested mechanism.

[1:04:38] Voice 8: It's based purely on measures of social need and estimates of development capacity in the

[1:04:44] Voice 8: form of the demand factor. I would also note that some of the inputs are circular. The major driver

[1:04:49] Voice 8: for the housing needs assessments is generally the household population projections. And

[1:04:57] Voice 8: And in many, so those are based upon the BC Stats people model that they've been using for a long time.

[1:05:03] Voice 8: You might notice in the previous housing needs assessment that your consultants also applied similar manipulations to the people model.

[1:05:11] Voice 8: And so the main thing is in the people model is that they are estimating population growth based upon the current population broken down by age, gender,

[1:05:22] Voice 8: or how much they expect people of that age and that population to experience fertility and

[1:05:31] Voice 8: mortality. And then there's an adjustment for migration. And the migration rates are largely

[1:05:36] Voice 8: based upon past population patterns. And so that migration factor does tend very much to code

[1:05:44] Voice 8: past planning decisions into the future. So if you have a housing policy that

[1:05:51] Voice 8: isn't especially accommodative, you will see less population growth, and therefore the

[1:05:55] Voice 8: BC stats population projections will project less population growth into the future. So that is just

[1:06:02] Voice 8: something to keep in mind, that it's a somewhat circular estimate of housing needs that's tied

[1:06:06] Voice 8: more to certain social indicators and less to, is this actually economically viable housing to

[1:06:11] Voice 8: build? I would also like to note some particular issues that we are working on in building out our

[1:06:20] Voice 8: our full data set here uh is uh there are limited data availability for the island communities uh

[1:06:26] Voice 8: bc stats does not do uh similar gradations of housing population forecasts and so we we are

[1:06:33] Voice 8: we're using wider data and then apportioning it down by uh by the the known age balance of uh

[1:06:42] Voice 8: various island communities uh there are some issues with small sample sizes uh for you know

[1:06:49] Voice 8: I mean, there are some places that have two households and we're going to produce a housing needs assessment for the two households of Winchelsea Islands.

[1:06:57] Voice 8: So some of that does create issues where there's just limited data availability because the way StatsCan reports data, it's rounded.

[1:07:05] Voice 8: And in small numbers, the random rounding can create quite large fluctuations in what the reported versus what the actual data is.

[1:07:12] Voice 8: is. In addition, COVID-19 was fully on the way in 2021, which was also the year that the census

[1:07:24] Voice 8: was done. The census month itself was where were you living May 1st, 2021, which is easily one of

[1:07:32] Voice 8: the most bizarre demographic years that hopefully any of us ever experience. And so one of the

[1:07:37] Voice 8: the effects of that is that a lot of non-temporarily, generally not permanently occupied

[1:07:43] Voice 8: housing was being, at least by census definitions, permanently occupied in 2021. That wouldn't have

[1:07:49] Voice 8: been true in 2019 and also might not have been true in 2025. In addition, the impact on the

[1:07:58] Voice 8: economics of the census was there was a lot of pandemic support programs still in operation at

[1:08:05] Voice 8: the time. The official measure was for 2020 income in the 2021 census, and so this creates

[1:08:12] Voice 8: all kinds of weirdness that will not necessarily be reflected in 2027, 2028, when we have the

[1:08:20] Voice 8: 2026 census data, but it is just a thing to keep in mind about the limitations of the

[1:08:27] Voice 8: information we have available here. We are presently working on population projections

[1:08:32] Voice 8: out to 2041 to try and sort of understand the way that the population of the islands

[1:08:38] Voice 8: is going to change over time.

[1:08:42] Voice 8: Generally, an aging population is something that we're finding in our figures, not large

[1:08:50] Voice 8: projected population growth, but this does involve a lot of falling household sizes that

[1:08:57] Voice 8: will tend to impact the way in which the demand for housing grows over time.

[1:09:03] Voice 8: I would like to speak to the survey. So here's just the percentage breakdown of by local trust area.

[1:09:11] Voice 8: As you can see, the vast majority of people are full-time residents.

[1:09:17] Voice 8: Our largest population here was from Salt Spring as well as Galliano.

[1:09:23] Voice 8: This does broadly reflect the population here, but it's not a representative sample.

[1:09:29] Voice 8: I will note that we got one person from Belenus-Winchelsea Islands Local Trust Area, so that might be

[1:09:35] Voice 8: the best represented area in the survey here.

[1:09:41] Voice 8: As we can see, most people are full-time, however we did also capture a certain number

[1:09:46] Voice 8: of part-time and non-residents in the survey population.

[1:09:51] Voice 8: We can provide that information with the data that's provided by your colleagues, split

[1:09:55] Voice 8: split out into how that affects what people think as our analysis is deepened.

[1:10:02] Voice 8: One thing I would note, the plurality of people that filled out the survey were retirees.

[1:10:07] Voice 8: There is, of course, a very large population of retirees on the islands,

[1:10:11] Voice 8: but that does speak to the extent to which the survey is a non-representative sample.

[1:10:17] Voice 8: And it's very important that we hear what people have to say,

[1:10:19] Voice 8: But it doesn't necessarily mean that this speaks for the community beyond the individual 800 and change people who took on the survey.

[1:10:32] Voice 8: As we can see, a majority of the survey takers were between the age of 60 and 79.

[1:10:37] Voice 8: Very few people under the age of 25 were able to take the survey,

[1:10:42] Voice 8: Bay, which is often where we do see some of the biggest housing challenges is among younger people

[1:10:48] Voice 8: who have difficulty, who are not as economically established, who are facing the housing market in

[1:10:54] Voice 8: its present configuration of higher rents and higher property prices. So that is just something

[1:10:59] Voice 8: to keep in mind. Here is the demographics by income reporting. I would note that this is

[1:11:05] Voice 8: not an extremely outlier set of demographics, although there is a very low population of

[1:11:13] Voice 8: people making under 50,000, or a very large population, I mean. That was the plurality

[1:11:19] Voice 8: that we had here, which is, you know, broadly similar to census demographics that we have

[1:11:26] Voice 8: available. I'd also like to speak to concerns that people raised in the survey. So the number

[1:11:33] Voice 8: one thing that people raised so this is this is the subset of people who said

[1:11:36] Voice 8: that so of the the 800 and change survey takers most were asked if you if you

[1:11:46] Voice 8: have a dissatisfaction with your current living situation now the thing I will

[1:11:52] Voice 8: report is that the vast majority of your constituents seem extremely happy with

[1:11:56] Voice 8: their living the situation so you must be doing something right but among those

[1:12:00] Voice 8: those who did report difficulties. The largest difficulty reported was that their homes needed

[1:12:07] Voice 8: major repairs. Other concerns were that their heating costs were very high, that their housing

[1:12:13] Voice 8: was too affordable, and that it was too small. And then a succession of smaller concerns that

[1:12:18] Voice 8: were ranked in that process as well. So these are all sort of downstream of housing costs.

[1:12:24] Voice 8: You know, heating and utility costs are part of housing costs as we talk about them in

[1:12:29] Voice 8: in affordable housing discussions, you know, housing that is too small or as is often stated

[1:12:35] Voice 8: in census terms is unsuitable for housing needs is part of the calculation for core housing need.

[1:12:44] Voice 8: And so these are just items that people drew attention to here. We also ask people to rank

[1:12:50] Voice 8: their goals for housing policy. So, you know, rank one being the most important,

[1:12:56] Voice 8: rank 10 being the least important. So as you can see here the most the largest

[1:13:03] Voice 8: thing that people returned in this survey with the demographics that this

[1:13:07] Voice 8: survey embodied, preservation of open spaces with a median rank of 3. That was

[1:13:14] Voice 8: followed by increased local infrastructure as a concern that people

[1:13:17] Voice 8: identified, reduced homelessness, more jobs on the islands, lower taxes was you

[1:13:23] Voice 8: only sort of the middle ranked concern here. Heritage preservation was ranked somewhat less

[1:13:29] Voice 8: than that. And then the least well ranked of the options here was low population density and low

[1:13:36] Voice 8: population growth, which I found quite surprising myself, but that is sort of where our survey

[1:13:42] Voice 8: takers landed. I also have a selection of some of the comments that people left. There was an

[1:13:47] Voice 8: option in the survey for people to leave open-ended comments at the end. There's quite a diversity of

[1:13:53] Voice 8: things. Sometimes some of them will say, many of them said that they thought this was a silly

[1:13:57] Voice 8: survey. Some of them thought that there are a lot of comments about the importance of protecting

[1:14:06] Voice 8: biodiversity, open space, that there is a more preservationist goal. There's also a lot of

[1:14:12] Voice 8: comments in favor of especially small lot development in terms of, you know, tiny homes

[1:14:18] Voice 8: and laneway houses and other sorts of housing. Definitely concern about housing

[1:14:25] Voice 8: costs, about infrastructure was definitely a concern that people brought

[1:14:29] Voice 8: up on their own. Worker housing, concerns that there is perhaps too many studies

[1:14:35] Voice 8: and too many consultants being hired to do work that should just be done, which I

[1:14:40] Voice 8: raised my hands there. And concern, as I mentioned, for protecting the natural

[1:14:46] Voice 8: ecosystem. So there's, this is not a representative sample. This is just a sample of comments that we

[1:14:52] Voice 8: thought brought some light to the cloud of thoughts that people wish to share with all of us

[1:14:57] Voice 8: here. So on that note, I am happy to answer any questions and I very much thank you for your time.

[1:15:06] Trustee Patrick: Thank you, Brendan. I know I have a pile of questions, but who have some first?

[1:15:11] Trustee Patrick: or is the trustee Boland first off the draw?

[1:15:18] Voice 2: I find it really, really concerning.

[1:15:20] Voice 2: Two things.

[1:15:21] Voice 2: One is that you don't have really good forecast data

[1:15:28] Voice 2: specific to the islands that you're having to broaden it.

[1:15:32] Voice 2: And the second thing is the skew in the responses,

[1:15:37] Voice 2: i.e. we're all retired and we all think we're fine.

[1:15:40] Voice 2: and I don't know how we go forward with such a skew in the data and you know I think

[1:15:50] Voice 2: it's something that the rock we found around over and over that our population is not normal

[1:15:58] Voice 2: the profile is not normal and you know we're in a circle where it's not normal because

[1:16:05] Voice 2: because younger people can't afford to live on the islands and the people who answer the survey

[1:16:12] Voice 2: and try to do something about it have you know a skew and then they leave because we don't have

[1:16:18] Voice 2: enough medical facilities so it's a very we are a very unusual population how are you going to

[1:16:25] Voice 2: tackle that skew and bias um

[1:16:31] Voice 8: so i mean so the the main thing i i like to emphasize on the on the

[1:16:36] Voice 8: topic of surveys is that they are you know important individual expressions of of of feeling

[1:16:44] Voice 8: um and so if you don't treat them as as a representative sample then then they aren't

[1:16:51] Voice 8: they are they are citizens who are expressing themselves and that are worthy of their input

[1:16:56] Voice 8: and and have very useful things to say uh that provide background color local knowledge that

[1:17:03] Voice 8: that fills out the information that more comprehensive data sets that are available

[1:17:09] Voice 8: give us so give us some some better information on on basically it's it's it's a lamp that lets us

[1:17:15] Voice 8: see what op things like bc sats or cmhc or stats canada have to say in a more fulsome light

[1:17:23] Voice 8: uh if that makes sense who

[1:17:31] Trustee Patrick: else have questions just elliot's thinking there we go just elliot

[1:17:37] Trustee Patrick: yeah

[1:17:38] Trustee Elliott: not so much a question maybe a comment um so gabriela island where i live is in the

[1:17:46] Trustee Elliott: regional district of nanaimo um and their housing needs assessment um report came out

[1:17:53] Trustee Elliott: uh i think it was done by deloitte um and they basically the board called it an interim report

[1:18:01] Trustee Elliott: Because it was so unsatisfactory towards addressing what's actually happening on the ground in these rural areas and the really different variations between the electoral areas.

[1:18:16] Trustee Elliott: And so Area B, which is Gabriel Island and the only one in the Islands Trust, I think the population or the projected need for housing in 20 years was 1,100 houses or units.

[1:18:35] Trustee Elliott: And it's just, it was way off base.

[1:18:38] Trustee Elliott: And so I guess we're challenged because the province is forcing this project, essentially, and we haven't got enough. I guess this needs to be really on the ground, tailored to each community sort of assessment, or it's going to be essentially useless.

[1:19:06] Trustee Elliott: lists um so i'm really struggling with this and i'm not it this isn't directed at you but just

[1:19:13] Trustee Elliott: we're going to have to recognize that from the outset this system that's being imposed

[1:19:18] Trustee Elliott: by the province is going to result in some very strange um uh recommendations and calculations

[1:19:27] Trustee Elliott: that are just not feasible so yeah it's just a it's just a remark that even the regional district

[1:19:34] Trustee Elliott: of Nanaimo, not even just for Area B, but its other electoral areas like Cedar and Wellington

[1:19:40] Trustee Elliott: were just like, these are way off. And so they called it an interim report and basically said

[1:19:46] Trustee Elliott: it wasn't addressing the rural needs on the ground. So thank you.

[1:19:52] Voice 7: If I may. Go ahead. Yes.

[1:19:54] Voice 7: So there is actually an interim report,

[1:19:57] Voice 8: and I haven't familiarized myself with the comments

[1:20:00] Voice 8: of the regional district on that topic.

[1:20:02] Voice 8: But interim report does have a technical meaning

[1:20:04] Voice 8: referring to the very slimmed down calculations

[1:20:09] Voice 8: and statements provided to meet the province's requirement

[1:20:15] Voice 8: for an interim housing needs assessment.

[1:20:19] Voice 8: Whereas this, what we've been undertaking on your behalf

[1:20:21] Voice 8: is a full housing needs assessment.

[1:20:23] Voice 8: And while it still uses the same methodology,

[1:20:26] Voice 8: it's a much bigger and more holistic undertaking

[1:20:28] Voice 8: taking than an interim housing needs assessment, which is not, at least as a technical term,

[1:20:33] Voice 8: not a comment on quality, more just a different set of requirements and practices than what we're

[1:20:40] Voice 8: doing in this project here. So I hope that might be somewhat reassuring.

[1:20:46] Voice 11: Thank you. Trustee Brown.

[1:20:49] Voice 9: Thank you. And thank you for your presentation. You know, and I think we all appreciate the job

[1:20:55] Voice 9: that you've done is an excellent one you've been but it's a top-down process it starts for the

[1:21:00] Voice 9: province and as uh trustee elliott so eloquently explained these various surveys we've had so many

[1:21:07] Voice 9: surveys done on on them and from a similar perspective a similar professional perspective

[1:21:13] Voice 9: they don't they're not very useful for us and there really isn't a process or a budget that

[1:21:19] Voice 9: will accomplish what the data that each island needs it's just beyond that particular approach

[1:21:27] Voice 9: on denman we empowered a housing advisory planning commission which was made up of people who

[1:21:32] Voice 9: normally don't fill out surveys are in fact afraid to talk to the trust because most of them live

[1:21:37] Voice 9: illegally and they conducted weekly meetings and had their doors open for anyone to come and speak

[1:21:44] Voice 9: And it was an amazing process. They had over 140 people show up and share their individual stories. This is of an island with 1,500 people, so that's almost 10% of people who would normally avoid surveys, avoid the trust, and bared their soul to give the trustees a really clear indication of the crisis and the situation in housing for those that are poorly housed or infested.

[1:22:14] Voice 9: in fact, not even housed. That kind of information is not going to be accomplished through a

[1:22:20] Voice 9: provincial dictated housing survey. And, you know, this is not a reflection on the work that you've

[1:22:25] Voice 9: done. You've done exactly what you were hired to do, and the province is doing their best. But

[1:22:31] Voice 9: all of this top-down data is almost, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but it just doesn't work for

[1:22:38] Voice 9: us. And that's just a comment. You know, I appreciate the work you've done. I appreciate

[1:22:41] Voice 9: the the um the data but um the the 170 page report that the housing advisory planning commission

[1:22:49] Voice 9: provided us that's where we're making our um that's what is informing our review of housing

[1:22:56] Voice 9: policies and regulations on denman island

[1:23:01] Trustee Patrick: um i'll join in i i echo trustee graham i think um

[1:23:08] Trustee Patrick: And I spent quite a bit of time this summer seeing the extent of the RV home situation that we have on Salt Spring, estimating over a thousand RVs right now today housing our workforce on Salt Spring, hidden behind fences and in forests and so forth.

[1:23:27] Trustee Patrick: And I drug all the MLA candidates that were running in the last election out on the same little tour to see, you know, see the housing situation that we have on Salt Spring. And I know that the census reports, you know, it's a very small number of who identified as living in inefficient, I forget the word in the census, but there's a question regarding your quality or lack thereof of your dwelling.

[1:23:53] Trustee Patrick: dwelling um and it's tiny compared to what the reality is because these people are off the grid

[1:23:58] Trustee Patrick: or they're hiding they you know they're illegal and you know they're not apt to wave a flag and

[1:24:04] Trustee Patrick: say come find me um so um it is concerning and i think that you know i don't know i don't know

[1:24:13] Trustee Patrick: your full i know your terms of reference is pretty much matches what the province is requiring but i

[1:24:18] Trustee Patrick: I think, I don't know if you're allowed to make some suggestions as to our caveats in the report that could help to, you know, localize or ground these into more reality.

[1:24:32] Trustee Patrick: Because, of course, the people that took the survey are housed that are happy, you know, that are fine.

[1:24:36] Trustee Patrick: A lot of them are even don't even know the extent of the problems on the island because it is so well hidden.

[1:24:45] Trustee Patrick: And so that's just my concern as to how do how do we make make that correction so that we don't have that out of whack right away when the report hits the public air?

[1:24:57] Voice 8: I agree entirely. That's part of the role that will be filled by by both your review of your existing work, like the Denman committee that you're calling reference there.

[1:25:08] Voice 8: Part of that will be by our engaging with stakeholders who work with these people on the ground.

[1:25:12] Voice 8: uh you know we we intend to deliver a a full report that that speaks to these issues and

[1:25:18] Voice 8: speaks to the very much to the limitations of of the methodology that the province has provided

[1:25:23] Voice 8: uh and and i will be you know very first to say that this methodology is not not the be-all and

[1:25:29] Voice 8: end-all of housing need uh it's you know it's it's not how i would have done it if if the province

[1:25:36] Voice 8: had asked me um you know and you know people i know in the space who who comment on these have

[1:25:41] Voice 8: have a lot of criticisms of the methodology as well, both professionally and both on a data

[1:25:47] Voice 8: basis, on a public service basis. And so that's the real answer here is we just got to be able

[1:25:54] Voice 8: to tell some of the human stories that illuminate what we have. And I think the takeaway as often

[1:26:02] Voice 8: ends up being not so much that we have X number of this need and Y number of that need, but more

[1:26:09] Voice 8: Or just how do you build processes that address these problems before they become, you know, a statistic?

[1:26:18] Voice 8: And that's, I think, where things need to move on once, you know, yeah.

[1:26:24] Trustee Patrick: Well, we are a statistic.

[1:26:26] Trustee Patrick: I said a thousand people don't have a home and they're living in trailers.

[1:26:30] Trustee Patrick: Christy Elliott.

[1:26:31] Trustee Patrick: um

[1:26:33] Trustee Elliott: so how are you soliciting this extra input uh from community groups such as mentioned

[1:26:40] Trustee Elliott: mother gabriela um gabriela uh who is it the foundation health care foundation just produced a

[1:26:48] Trustee Elliott: health and wellness report 2024 so that's got some updated um um i'm just looking at

[1:26:57] Trustee Elliott: the broader areas sources of income economic health community well-being how much is there

[1:27:05] Trustee Elliott: about housing um yeah so are you asking you know how can we connect you with community groups that

[1:27:14] Trustee Elliott: are doing sort of this ancillary stuff that um could help you dig a little bit more into

[1:27:18] Trustee Elliott: actual community trends so

[1:27:22] Voice 8: your colleagues have been kind enough to provide us a list to start

[1:27:24] Voice 8: with uh and we build out that list as we speak to people see if they recommend anyone else that we

[1:27:29] Voice 8: should speak further to um and you know i am i am if there's anyone that that uh that your local

[1:27:36] Voice 8: knowledge could could really help fill us out that we should add to the list i am all yours so all

[1:27:47] Trustee Patrick: right i had one final question the list of goals where did they come from what what were they they

[1:27:54] Trustee Patrick: were an interesting list it's like i think on our islands it's like just maintaining the jobs we

[1:28:00] Trustee Patrick: already have no one's really thinking of growing it's how do we how do we keep the hospital running

[1:28:05] Trustee Patrick: that we already have there were so i don't know were they based on were they methodology questions

[1:28:11] Voice 8: the survey was put together by islands trust staff with with our input um and so i i i can't

[1:28:21] Voice 8: speak specifically to to where any particular question came from but that's that was the the

[1:28:25] Voice 8: process that that came to putting together the survey uh if that's right stefan yeah certainly

[1:28:29] Voice 10: Certainly we created the survey with sort of reviewing past surveys and current requests

[1:28:37] Voice 10: from regional district staff.

[1:28:38] Voice 10: That particular question, it sounds funny, we're going to play ping pong, I think came

[1:28:44] Voice 10: from Urbanics, that particular question about, it was question 18 of the survey about measuring

[1:28:49] Voice 10: the community goals and stuff like that.

[1:28:52] Voice 10: I think it was the last thing to just skirt into the survey and thought it may be useful.

[1:28:57] Voice 10: So, even contemplated pulling it out based on some critique, but by that time we'd had 600 responses and it was providing interesting data and seemed unfair to cut it partway.

[1:29:09] Voice 8: Okay, well that one was my fault then.

[1:29:12] Voice 8: And we would have gotten it from past surveys that we've run on similar projects.

[1:29:19] Voice 2: Trustee Boland?

[1:29:20] Voice 2: um so the list of people you're going to consult with um provided by your colleagues we are those

[1:29:29] Voice 2: colleagues and i haven't provided names to anybody i'm just curious i'm on saturn island

[1:29:34] Voice 2: uh so i don't i i would i think somebody trustees should cast their eye over that list

[1:29:45] Voice 2: for each island or am i misunderstanding how the list has been compiled

[1:29:50] Voice 2: and the people

[1:29:52] Voice 4: you're going to consult with.

[1:29:54] Voice 2: Yeah, the extent of the situation.

[1:29:56] Voice 10: I would say the capital regional district in which you...

[1:30:00] Voice 10: are had the most robust list of potential engagements provided by uh well justine stark

[1:30:06] Voice 10: broke down an extensive number of community groups in each of the local trust areas each

[1:30:11] Voice 10: island and so on and so forth i think that was like two or three pages long that list

[1:30:16] Voice 10: so we trusted that staff would do that work compile those resources i know i i reviewed the

[1:30:22] Voice 10: one for salt spring and i have knowing salt spring the best myself and then we had staff from the

[1:30:27] Voice 10: north doing the same thing so it was kind of a group effort amongst all the staff to put together

[1:30:31] Voice 10: a list of four to urbanics okay

[1:30:34] Voice 2: and uh so saturn is represented on the list yeah

[1:30:38] Voice 10: i'll double check

[1:30:40] Voice 10: i'll do so right now i'll open up my list to see what was sent forward by that uh group i don't

[1:30:45] Voice 10: recall specific islands what groups except for of course i guess

[1:30:49] Trustee Patrick: i'm sorry trustee i was just

[1:30:51] Trustee Patrick: going to ask before we go just timeline and what's coming next and when the report is but trustee

[1:30:56] Trustee Patrick: Yeah,

[1:30:57] Trustee Elliott: so I just put two links in the chat to recent report. Well, one is from 2021. But this was the Switzerland Islands Trust document, but that was specifically on Gabriola to explore affordable housing options, the appetite for what kind of housing zoning policy options we want to see.

[1:31:20] Trustee Elliott: and then the gabriela health report may have some extra data it seems to be largely based

[1:31:25] Trustee Elliott: on census data but um there's some other sources there but if they're useful um yeah and so does

[1:31:33] Trustee Elliott: staff want us to provide more background if we've got some uh community reports i

[1:31:43] Trustee Patrick: guess that's

[1:31:44] Trustee Patrick: director cernak you

[1:31:47] Voice 10: can forward them i'm not sure how much they'll be incorporated into

[1:31:50] Voice 10: to the report and how much time we have to take new reports and think about them, but certainly

[1:31:55] Voice 10: forward them and we can make that assessment as we go forward. And then we'll make sure to report

[1:31:59] Voice 10: back about what we could and could not use.

[1:32:03] Trustee Patrick: So I guess that is, so next steps, when is,

[1:32:06] Trustee Patrick: when is this report going to be out? When it is in the public hand? What is the communications of

[1:32:10] Trustee Patrick: this and any feedback? Oh, Director Cermak is the, you're on mute.

[1:32:27] Voice 10: Sorry about that.

[1:32:28] Voice 10: It's when you're scrolling through many pages.

[1:32:31] Voice 10: So, of course, Brandon's contract ends at the end of this fiscal, so by March 31st.

[1:32:38] Voice 10: And then in terms of, so the staff will be working with him and his team to review the draft reports and to receive that final deliverable.

[1:32:50] Voice 10: We actually haven't projected further than that how to bring this forward to this group.

[1:32:54] Voice 10: I would recommend that we, with the housing needs report being part of the housing actions and stuff, bring it back to the RPC in May for your discussion about.

[1:33:04] Voice 10: There's no, this was all grant funded, so there's no budget for it or no particular work program beyond that.

[1:33:12] Voice 10: Staff's original assessment was we get a housing needs report for each LTC, and then they would be subsequently distributed to each LTC.

[1:33:19] Voice 10: see but if it's you know the reason you're being consulted here today is to plot that very next

[1:33:27] Voice 10: step if you would like to have a look at it and if if you're yeah i'll leave it there so happy to

[1:33:33] Voice 10: bring it back in may i

[1:33:35] Trustee Patrick: guess trustees i guess that would be my question is i'm i i think as a

[1:33:40] Trustee Patrick: trustee i i want to know when it's planned to be released publicly when is it going to be in the

[1:33:45] Trustee Patrick: hands of our constituents and you know so that we're prepared and we can respond and answer

[1:33:50] Trustee Patrick: questions. So is that the intent is to release it out publicly once staff have seen it? Because

[1:34:02] Trustee Patrick: in May, the contract's done. We're not going to be inputting into the report. We're just receiving

[1:34:07] Trustee Patrick: it. So my question is, when is it out in the public's hands?

[1:34:13] Voice 10: Well, I'll respond to that.

[1:34:15] Voice 10: We could put it out in the public arena immediately upon receipt, say April 1st,

[1:34:23] Voice 10: type thing. I could put them all up online with the rest

[1:34:27] Voice 10: of the housing needs reports that you know is on the housing affordability webpage that we have

[1:34:31] Voice 10: and direct all the relevant, all the trustees to those pages

[1:34:35] Voice 10: to find their own thing. I could follow up with that and this is kind of

[1:34:39] Voice 10: what I was imagining is following up with just a memo to

[1:34:43] Voice 10: each LTC advising them that this is what's happened, this is where to

[1:34:47] Voice 10: find it. Of course I'd tell them by email first but then formally put

[1:34:51] Voice 10: it on the agenda such that it's on your respective ltc agenda packages and then that way the public

[1:34:56] Voice 10: gets to know um in a more formal setting so that's kind of i imagine informal let you know and then

[1:35:04] Voice 10: then formally let you know via a memo to each ltc but if you would like to have a brief look

[1:35:10] Voice 10: at it first this committee i i'm i'm game just let me know what you'd like to do

[1:35:15] Trustee Patrick: trustees your

[1:35:17] Trustee Patrick: thoughts feedback no thoughts yeah I think it's just I think trustees deserve

[1:35:30] Trustee Patrick: a heads up when the reports going to be public so that they're prepared I think

[1:35:36] Trustee Patrick: is would be my my thoughts otherwise they get into my hands and it's in the

[1:35:41] Trustee Patrick: media and it's in the press and I'm reading it in the driftwood and I don't

[1:35:44] Trustee Patrick: think that goes over very well you know so I think trustees need to have a heads

[1:35:50] Trustee Patrick: heads up in advance and even access to the report 24 hours or something ahead

[1:35:56] Trustee Patrick: of time or whatever, before it's out public would be a kind thing to do to

[1:36:01] Trustee Patrick: trustees. And then any other thoughts on that?

[1:36:07] Trustee Patrick: I'm seeing head bobs on,

[1:36:08] Trustee Patrick: I think if we could get a advanced release to trustees or

[1:36:14] Trustee Elliott: put it on web

[1:36:15] Trustee Elliott: dev or yeah, something. Yeah. Or something would be great. I agree.

[1:36:20] Trustee Elliott: we often get surprised with that kind of unpleasant media attention that's like oh

[1:36:25] Trustee Elliott: you did this now tell us why it's

[1:36:27] Trustee Patrick: yeah just to

[1:36:28] Trustee Patrick: digest the driftwood's gonna be on it i'll tell

[1:36:31] Trustee Patrick: you it'll be front page story let's

[1:36:34] Voice 10: not talk about driftwood front pages that's it's a sore spot

[1:36:37] Voice 10: right now it

[1:36:39] Trustee Patrick: certainly is but they'll do it again they're listening right now indeed

[1:36:45] Voice 4: they love

[1:36:46] Trustee Elliott: us we're the most entertaining news source come on what is the island's dress up to

[1:36:52] Trustee Elliott: now front page stories great

[1:36:55] Trustee Patrick: okay

[1:36:56] Voice 10: so with that uh i just put a note in my uh my project charter

[1:37:00] Voice 10: there so um i my plan then is uh i was going to inform trust council as a whole so all the

[1:37:05] Voice 10: elected officials are there in my director's report this is happening and this is the timeline

[1:37:10] Voice 10: line and I will let them know that I will give them access to the document ahead of me putting

[1:37:17] Voice 10: it on their agenda. Or, you know, that's how I'll do it. I'll just roll it out trust committee by

[1:37:24] Voice 10: trust committee and you always get access to your agenda before the public does. So that's at the

[1:37:29] Voice 10: least sort of my backstop in case I missed that. Is that acceptable to this group? I see one thumbs

[1:37:38] Voice 10: Do

[1:37:38] Trustee Patrick: we need

[1:37:42] Trustee Patrick: a motion as to this?

[1:37:45] Voice 10: No, that's more or less what the project was going to be.

[1:37:47] Voice 10: It's just fine-tuning the fact that I'll do it, make sure it's LTC by LTC,

[1:37:52] Voice 10: and I'll tell that to trust counsel so that they know that's the plan.

[1:37:56] Voice 10: So it just

[1:37:56] Voice 10: sharpens what I was already doing.

[1:37:58] Trustee Patrick: And an advance release to trustees before it's public,

[1:38:03] Trustee Patrick: just so that we're all prepared.

[1:38:09] Trustee Patrick: Excellent.

[1:38:14] Trustee Patrick: Sorry, Drickwood.

[1:38:15] Trustee Patrick: We like your headlines.

[1:38:17] Trustee Patrick: We'd like to know what's coming.

[1:38:19] Trustee Patrick: That's all.

[1:38:22] Trustee Patrick: All right.

[1:38:25] Trustee Patrick: Any other questions then?

[1:38:28] Trustee Patrick: Well, thank you, Brendan.

[1:38:30] Trustee Patrick: I know we're a thorny geographic region.

[1:38:33] Trustee Patrick: We may be beautiful, but we hide lots in the trees.

[1:38:43] Trustee Patrick: So we look forward to the report.

[1:38:45] Trustee Patrick: Okay.

[1:38:47] Voice 10: Thanks, Brendan.

[1:38:48] Voice 10: We'll touch base soon.

[1:38:51] Trustee Patrick: all right so we're back to the follow-up action list or no or yeah we're all right everyone's

[1:38:56] Trustee Patrick: doing okay we'll try to soldier on till lunchtime okay so let's go back to the follow-up action

[1:39:03] Trustee Patrick: list we spent a lot of time on number one let's hope the rest of it is better um over to you

[1:39:08] Trustee Patrick: stephan did you have other questions thank

[1:39:14] Voice 10: you chair um let me just catch up so the other one

[1:39:17] Voice 10: it's 100% done. August 2022. Oh yes, this is so the frequently asked questions. I don't have any

[1:39:25] Voice 10: update on that. I know that's a, you know, frustration of this group in terms of getting

[1:39:32] Voice 10: communications that we've been focusing on getting that Atlas together and then making it a meaningful

[1:39:38] Voice 10: follow-up communications piece once we have an online presence and so on and so forth. So

[1:39:42] Voice 10: So that continues to linger, but I rest assured it's not lost.

[1:39:46] Voice 10: It's just lingering.

[1:39:48] Voice 10: What else can I say?

[1:39:51] Voice 10: No, implementation, no.

[1:39:54] Voice 10: Work through self-assessment checklist.

[1:39:56] Voice 10: Oh, yes.

[1:39:56] Voice 10: So September 2024, sorry, I'm on page 12 with the September 4th, 2024.

[1:40:03] Voice 10: It says that the RPC requests staff to work through a self-assessment checklist.

[1:40:06] Voice 10: That was done.

[1:40:07] Voice 10: I'm sorry, it should, and it should be attached to your report. So my apologies that just didn't

[1:40:15] Voice 10: catch that in my update. And the rest is self-explanatory. Yeah. Thank you.

[1:40:26] Trustee Patrick: Trustees, questions on the follow-up action list? I can speak English.

[1:40:35] Trustee Patrick: I know I have one for a frequently asked question. The implementation plan sits at

[1:40:40] Trustee Patrick: that's 70% progress with a due date of November, 2024.

[1:40:44] Trustee Patrick: Is there an update on when we can expect

[1:40:47] Trustee Patrick: an implementation plan for the freshwater strategy?

[1:40:52] Voice 10: Well, Chair, we did present a report about that.

[1:40:57] Voice 10: And in response to that, we said that it's, you know,

[1:41:00] Voice 10: it's challenging to have an implementation plan

[1:41:03] Voice 10: for what was perceived as a 10-year plan

[1:41:05] Voice 10: without committed funding.

[1:41:06] Voice 10: We saw, and without being able to give

[1:41:09] Voice 10: the freshwater specialist any dedicated or very minimal dedicated planning support so what we did

[1:41:17] Voice 10: is we chased funding in order to be able to accomplish that and so that's what we got the

[1:41:21] Voice 10: freshwater sustainability grant application and the largest principle of that is creating

[1:41:27] Voice 10: the resources necessary to do a detailed plan to get the debt and with the to get dedicated

[1:41:34] Voice 10: resources we can create a much more comprehensive implementation plan so that's the tact we've been

[1:41:39] Voice 10: been taking and i thought we communicated that so i wasn't sure that that was not understood

[1:41:45] Voice 10: it

[1:41:46] Trustee Patrick: was kind of what was described but it's still fine there's still a little bit of scatter but

[1:41:52] Trustee Patrick: trustee boland

[1:41:54] Voice 2: um so uh stephan can you remind me when was the freshwater strategy document

[1:42:04] Voice 2: published i just can't quite remember beginning of this and that would have probably taken what

[1:42:10] Voice 2: What a year to prepare.

[1:42:12] Voice 10: Ooh, you know what?

[1:42:13] Voice 10: My mind is freshened on the topic.

[1:42:15] Voice 10: I'm sharp as a knife at the moment.

[1:42:17] Voice 10: I don't have the exact answer,

[1:42:19] Voice 10: but if you allow me a chance to check my notes,

[1:42:22] Voice 10: I can get

[1:42:23] Voice 2: a detailed answer.

[1:42:23] Voice 2: Actually, I've got it.

[1:42:24] Voice 2: I

[1:42:24] Voice 10: just quickly looked at myself.

[1:42:25] Voice 2: Good for you.

[1:42:26] Voice 10: You're scrolling while I'm answering.

[1:42:27] Voice 2: No, it was published in December 2021.

[1:42:30] Voice 2: And I assume, I mean, work was ongoing before that.

[1:42:34] Voice 2: So now we're in 2025.

[1:42:37] Voice 2: And as you said, it's a 10-year project.

[1:42:40] Voice 2: And I do find myself very uncomfortable with some of the requests being made for funding.

[1:42:51] Voice 2: And, you know, we do get updates, but I've really struggled to fit it into a coherent picture of, you know, we began in 2020.

[1:43:02] Voice 2: We are now halfway through. And exactly where are we?

[1:43:06] Voice 2: um you know i wonder if it's not time for some kind of independent review of what's been

[1:43:14] Voice 2: accomplished it's possible that some of the original strategy we should just knock on the head

[1:43:19] Voice 2: you know um and maybe new ideas have come and you know i i do i do think i know early on in the

[1:43:29] Voice 2: project there was uh i think there was a peer review of some of the early reports some of which

[1:43:36] Voice 2: which I vehemently disagree with, but I won't go down that rabbit hole right now.

[1:43:40] Voice 2: But I do think, you know, so we're halfway through a 10 year project and we're about to embark on a grant funding project of 500,000.

[1:43:51] Voice 2: I think some kind of audit or independent check on the status would be a good thing.

[1:43:58] Voice 2: and I'll give you an example so the atlas I see that there's a funding request here today

[1:44:07] Voice 2: and I thought gee I've heard of that before so I kind of dug around and found that in January 2023

[1:44:17] Voice 2: regional planning and then it went to the budget and it was approved that there would be

[1:44:21] Voice 2: funding for the development of this atlas and online communication and data preparation and

[1:44:28] Voice 2: a co-op student assigned but you know two years on we've seen absolutely nothing of that that i

[1:44:35] Voice 2: know of so um okay i'll leave it there i do think we should have a review of some kind thanks director

[1:44:43] Voice 2: sir mac thank

[1:44:45] Voice 10: you so uh it's it's difficult to have this conversation without uh the senior

[1:44:49] Voice 10: freshwater specialist um but just a reminder that uh you know if you put on kind of an appreciative

[1:44:55] Voice 10: of inquiry lens, a lot has been accomplished. There has been groundwater atlases created for

[1:45:02] Voice 10: each island. There's been the integration now of applying the science, which was rigorous and

[1:45:08] Voice 10: unique to various projects. I'll use Galliano as the most recent update, how to use the data into

[1:45:15] Voice 10: creating a development permit areas to protect groundwater sources and more. We're using the

[1:45:22] Voice 10: suitable land analysis which is affecting OCP projects and so on and so forth. We've had a

[1:45:28] Voice 10: reality of a lot of the work was dependent on the geographical information services that we have

[1:45:34] Voice 10: and that department has become severely stressed losing key staff and we have had many projects

[1:45:41] Voice 10: not being able to proceed that's relevant to this committee and LTC's work. Meanwhile the

[1:45:47] Voice 10: The regional planning committee, trust council, et cetera, have not committed financially in a meaningful way to a long period of term, allowing us to forecast getting work done in this project.

[1:45:57] Voice 10: And it's kind of been asking for money, not getting money, getting some money.

[1:46:01] Voice 10: And it's the reaction, sort of the annual reporting method and asking for money has not served this project well.

[1:46:08] Voice 10: And it's just a reflection of not having much experience.

[1:46:12] Voice 10: I would say, as Russ would say, our previous CEO, we haven't flexed the muscle of implementing 10-year plans in the organization well, to my knowledge.

[1:46:20] Voice 10: And to correct that, we have corporate planning currently sort of winding, developing.

[1:46:27] Voice 10: We have a new process, which should be speaking to the strategic plan.

[1:46:31] Voice 10: This is identified in the draft strategic plan for your consideration and trust counsel.

[1:46:36] Voice 10: and then it'll become my job after that's done to create departmental work plans

[1:46:41] Voice 10: to identify how to accomplish what's there.

[1:46:45] Voice 10: So we are coming towards, in a slow bureaucratic sense,

[1:46:49] Voice 10: how to make better plans to achieve the strategic goals of the organization.

[1:46:56] Voice 10: And I just beg your patience.

[1:46:58] Voice 10: This has been a messy, difficult process,

[1:47:01] Voice 10: but if you look at it from a more appreciative lens,

[1:47:04] Voice 10: we are accomplishing good science it is being applied to good planning work and we are getting

[1:47:12] Voice 10: better towards fixing these structural issues of how we're reporting and get things done and

[1:47:18] Voice 10: dedicate resources so that's my appreciative side but your critiques are well warranted and that's

[1:47:24] Voice 10: why all these processes are changing so

[1:47:27] Voice 2: just to respond if i may briefly um i i appreciate it i

[1:47:33] Voice 2: I actually look at the scale of the project.

[1:47:35] Voice 2: I look at the 10-year plan.

[1:47:37] Voice 2: And I suppose some of my concerns come from, you know,

[1:47:41] Voice 2: are we trying to do something that is not an appropriate scale

[1:47:47] Voice 2: for our small local government and or, you know, beyond our resources?

[1:47:55] Voice 2: And indeed, the 500,000 grant application will, you know,

[1:48:02] Voice 2: hopefully change that or not but that is one of my concerns and that is why a review of what we

[1:48:10] Voice 2: have accomplished how useful and fit for purpose it is on a daily basis and whether we should

[1:48:18] Voice 2: review that original strategic plan and cull it or replace some of the elements I think five years

[1:48:27] Voice 2: into a tenure project that would be a good thing and it may also be appropriate as you go towards

[1:48:33] Voice 2: this funding okay thanks

[1:48:35] Trustee Elliott: trustee elliott yeah i sort of echo um a midterm review would be great

[1:48:44] Trustee Elliott: um i think we could i would potentially ask for this after june so um the the in practice part

[1:48:55] Trustee Elliott: Part of this project, I think, is the piece for Gabriola right now where it was proposed and there's a consultant working on the specific methodology that should be sort of this is the third round of developing methodology that's going to inform the suitable land analysis or to inform our policy development.

[1:49:22] Trustee Elliott: development so the contractor is supposed to finish march 31st it looks i think that's to

[1:49:27] Trustee Elliott: be extended to the end of june is the update that we got um and it is it's going to be also a

[1:49:34] Trustee Elliott: community-based survey so this is going back to the the water balance project it's also being

[1:49:40] Trustee Elliott: called the water footprint but trustee yates actually asked can we just stick with one name

[1:49:44] Trustee Elliott: and water balance um so that's the water budget water in water out um and interviewing like like

[1:49:53] Trustee Elliott: finding out where is the water going on gabriela so i do think once that piece that report is

[1:50:00] Trustee Elliott: received and we see the robustness of it and how does it apply to the suitable land analysis

[1:50:07] Trustee Elliott: analysis we absolutely should um take a good look at the whole scope of the plan and then

[1:50:15] Trustee Elliott: what is the next five years going to look like and how does that work with the operational plan

[1:50:21] Trustee Elliott: corporate plan and then flow through to the department plan water is messy i i have had to

[1:50:27] Trustee Elliott: trust along the way i know you've you've been saying that trusty patrick i have to keep trusting

[1:50:33] Trustee Elliott: that good usable data is coming out of this because I feel like we have no choice but to do

[1:50:47] Trustee Elliott: this work. Our community members absolutely demand that there is evidence that any further

[1:50:56] Trustee Elliott: further development or intensification of land use

[1:51:02] Trustee Elliott: is supported by groundwater availability.

[1:51:10] Trustee Elliott: So that data has to be in place somehow.

[1:51:12] Trustee Elliott: And it is through partnerships with the regional districts

[1:51:15] Trustee Elliott: and the province that that's going to be acquired.

[1:51:21] Trustee Elliott: And I think Gabriel has the strongest case study right now

[1:51:25] Trustee Elliott: because William has been sitting on the regional district of Nanaimo who's done an excellent

[1:51:32] Trustee Elliott: groundwater analysis and so I think we're learning from them and that is being applied right now in

[1:51:39] Trustee Elliott: Gabriola. So this is the test case I would argue after this is done and we get that report

[1:51:45] Trustee Elliott: let's do an evaluation for how will this roll out and I think we do need to be critical but it is

[1:51:53] Trustee Elliott: is messy but our constituents are also demanding it they and i don't think anyone else will do it

[1:52:00] Trustee Elliott: we have to do it in partnership with these other agencies so god we're getting this or applying

[1:52:07] Trustee Elliott: for this grant will we get it will it make a difference i don't know we're just hanging in

[1:52:12] Trustee Elliott: there no

[1:52:15] Trustee Patrick: thank you trustee elliot i think i mean that is a primary difference regional districts

[1:52:20] Trustee Patrick: Districts have a referendum, they create a service, and they charge it over time.

[1:52:26] Trustee Patrick: So, you know, we didn't really set this up for success, if that was the intent of how to do that.

[1:52:35] Trustee Patrick: And yes, the water is messy is my T-shirt line.

[1:52:38] Trustee Patrick: So thank you for plugging it.

[1:52:40] Trustee Patrick: I've been saying that for a long time.

[1:52:43] Trustee Patrick: But I do have concerns because Salt Springs, you know, SWPA, dead.

[1:52:47] Trustee Patrick: dead. It's abandoned because someone else has now got interest in other areas. So we're not

[1:52:52] Trustee Patrick: keeping going the things that we're creating. And I'm also concerned that we have one consultant

[1:52:58] Trustee Patrick: that is only getting all of this work now. Only one consultant bid on your project for

[1:53:02] Trustee Patrick: Galliano, the same consultant that's been working on the projects from the start here.

[1:53:07] Trustee Patrick: That's a red flag for me, that we're really developing work with one consultant.

[1:53:11] Trustee Patrick: and um you know our we need to pay attention to make sure the work is correct accurate in

[1:53:17] Trustee Patrick: serving our island's needs into the future so um with or without this um um grant i'd say even if

[1:53:27] Trustee Patrick: we if we are successful with the grant we need to do a step back make sure we're going forward

[1:53:31] Trustee Patrick: appropriately before we dive in um because otherwise we'll dive in and we'll keep going

[1:53:37] Trustee Patrick: and not to not make sure we're going in the right direction so don't think we

[1:53:43] Trustee Patrick: need a motion right now but I think staff have heard us that this is not an

[1:53:47] Trustee Patrick: area that we're taking lightly it is important it is a significant investment

[1:53:51] Trustee Patrick: for this organization and we want to make sure it is on solid ground going

[1:53:56] Trustee Patrick: forward any other comments any other comments on the action that I see we're

[1:54:05] Trustee Patrick: about the noon um let's take a quick look at the agenda where we are going uh we do know we have

[1:54:13] Trustee Patrick: we do have william shulba that will be back i guess after lunch to talk about the um request

[1:54:20] Trustee Patrick: for the business cases and um the bylaw compliance so how much time should we take for lunch half an

[1:54:28] Trustee Patrick: hour is that enough time for everybody so no okay 12 30 is that the good return date so time so

[1:54:36] Trustee Patrick: So that'll be a 34 minutes. All right. Well, we'll take a break then lunch till 1230.

[2:29:08] Voice 11: Greetings, greetings, greetings. Are we slowly coming back?

[2:29:19] Trustee Patrick: Slowly coming back.

[2:29:22] Trustee Patrick: Stefan's back. Robert's back. We need a couple more trustees.

[2:29:41] Trustee Patrick: I see William has joined us. Trustee Bolin, Trustee Elliott, are you out there? Trustee Leroni?

[2:30:03] Trustee Patrick: they're not out there what would you like to get done david

[2:30:09] Trustee Patrick: i

[2:30:11] Voice 9: mean if we if we don't have quorum i guess

[2:30:17] Trustee Patrick: we're done they'll be back i

[2:30:21] Voice 9: know come on chop chop

[2:30:27] Voice 9: trustees there's justy boland three one more who's it gonna be christy boland i'm curious

[2:31:31] Voice 9: Chris, did you get caught in that crazy storm in Ireland?

[2:31:36] Voice 2: I did, but I was in...

[2:31:39] Voice 2: We are recording, just

[2:31:39] Voice 2: so everyone knows.

[2:31:41] Voice 2: East Coast.

[2:31:42] Voice 2: So we were relatively unaffected where I was,

[2:31:45] Voice 2: but it made you very surprised by what happened elsewhere.

[2:31:50] Voice 2: So I could hear a lot of wind and noise,

[2:31:54] Voice 2: but nothing in particular happened just where I was.

[2:31:58] Voice 2: But it was quite dramatic, yeah.

[2:32:02] i'll

[2:32:07] Voice 11: text toby sorry

[2:32:23] Trustee Patrick: anyone listening we're just waiting for quorum all

[2:33:02] Trustee Elliott: right apologies horse

[2:33:04] Trustee Patrick: stuff always takes longer than i think

[2:33:07] Trustee Patrick: no one did right this time of year understand

[2:33:11] Trustee Patrick: snow makes everything a little more work beautiful but more work okay then uh oops

[2:33:18] Trustee Patrick: get the agenda back we i think we completed up the follow-up action list so we were skipping

[2:33:24] Trustee Patrick: me back up to where we had left off. I think

[2:33:28] Trustee Patrick: William Shulba is with us now, so we can

[2:33:31] Trustee Patrick: go back up to item 7.3, the

[2:33:36] Trustee Patrick: fiscal year business cases. Who will present that?

[2:33:42] Trustee Patrick: Director Cermak?

[2:33:46] Voice 10: Thank you, Chair. I'll start with it for sure.

[2:33:49] Voice 10: And if you have any questions, I suspect I'll be drawing on the expertise of Mr.

[2:33:52] Voice 10: Shulba. So this is a business case. We didn't have any

[2:33:56] Voice 10: from you earlier, but we have one now, and this is

[2:34:00] Voice 10: for the total of $17,000. It includes

[2:34:05] Voice 10: two components. One is to purchase

[2:34:09] Voice 10: the annual software maintenance of $5,000

[2:34:12] Voice 10: if that's for 3D aquifer conceptualization

[2:34:20] Voice 10: software.

[2:34:22] Voice 10: Sorry about that. We have it now, but we needed it

[2:34:24] Voice 10: extended and that is these are the 3d sort of groundwater models that are really fun to play

[2:34:31] Voice 10: with and rotate and zoom in and zoom out on your individual islands showing the groundwater and

[2:34:36] Voice 10: that would be linked up to an online freshwater atlas that we're very close to producing but that

[2:34:43] Voice 10: brings us to the next part of it is contract services we started but we weren't able to complete

[2:34:48] Voice 10: getting this freshwater atlas up and running, and you can see

[2:34:53] Voice 10: the various details of the work. This is where William becomes the expert and I become

[2:34:57] Voice 10: the nodding human about getting GIS

[2:35:02] Voice 10: information online. It's a very interesting

[2:35:05] Voice 10: process. It's not nearly as easy as one thinks, and so

[2:35:09] Voice 10: this is seeking funding to do those things for next year.

[2:35:13] Voice 10: In the report, I note that this is one of your top priorities. It's Trust

[2:35:17] Voice 10: Council's approved top priority is going through the strategic plan

[2:35:21] Voice 10: as yet another top priority. We've been working this year

[2:35:25] Voice 10: and over a couple of years to really bring this

[2:35:29] Voice 10: model online so that people can ask questions and engage with the information

[2:35:33] Voice 10: and so on and so forth. We had a discussion about that earlier today. I'm going to leave it

[2:35:37] Voice 10: there. I think it's kind of explanatory. The software requests and staff to help

[2:35:41] Voice 10: build our contract services to get it. I did already mention

[2:35:45] Voice 10: that the gis staffing like we had two key people who could do this work and they have both left the

[2:35:49] Voice 10: organization so william's been great in helping get support to keep these projects alive which

[2:35:58] Voice 10: has been pivotal in so many ways but if you have any questions happy to answer them and like i said

[2:36:03] Voice 10: i see william there and perhaps he'll fill in on the technical parts that he's so good at all right

[2:36:13] Trustee Patrick: Right. William, do you want to add anything right now or?

[2:36:19] Voice 6: Thank you, Chair. Hi, Regional Planning Committee.

[2:36:23] Voice 6: Thanks for having me.

[2:36:26] Voice 6: Yeah, I think Stefan did a great job on describing the request for decision here.

[2:36:37] Voice 6: Yeah, just to clarify that these 3D island models are a component of the freshwater atlas, and the 3D models have been done under the Island Trust Area Aquifer Conceptualization Project, which was a sister project to the Recharge Mapping Project, which we have holistically finished now across the Island Trust Area.

[2:37:05] Voice 6: It was a three-year, multi-year project, well, over five years, but three-year projects.

[2:37:11] Voice 6: Three one-year projects, there we go, I should say.

[2:37:16] Voice 6: And this software ask is to blend the 3D models with all of the mapping data that we have

[2:37:26] Voice 6: accumulated in the freshwater alas, including layering on the groundwater recharge mapping

[2:37:34] Voice 6: of thing on top of the model so when a planner or an applicant or their consultant or just an

[2:37:42] Voice 6: interested party wants to engage in in in the 3d model there will be several layers from the

[2:37:51] Voice 6: threshold list that will be included in there including roads and and parcels so it can

[2:37:56] Voice 6: orientate people the the models are kind of amorphous without those orientation layers and

[2:38:02] Voice 6: And so that's what the majority of this work is, is to integrate our GIS with the 3D models,

[2:38:10] Voice 6: host them online through this software company, and then they are embedded in the Freshwater

[2:38:18] Voice 6: Atlas for anybody to use.

[2:38:21] Voice 6: So it's an equitable way to look at these very complex models because it's just run

[2:38:26] Voice 6: on a web browser.

[2:38:27] Voice 6: And so that's what this ask is for.

[2:38:29] Voice 6: Thanks.

[2:38:30] Voice 6: And it includes Lennon Matichak, who's been contracting with us to facilitate in helping bring those two worlds together.

[2:38:41] Voice 6: Thanks, Cher.

[2:38:45] Trustee Patrick: You mentioned, so trying to understand the software.

[2:38:54] Trustee Patrick: So this is just an annual software license.

[2:38:57] Trustee Patrick: It resides on someone else's.

[2:38:58] Trustee Patrick: We have no additional maintenance costs or anything associated with that?

[2:39:03] Voice 6: Yes, that's correct.

[2:39:04] Voice 6: Correct. So our our models are uploaded to Sequent Central, which is a company and their server software.

[2:39:14] Voice 6: It's based in the the the the hosting that we use is in Canada.

[2:39:22] Voice 6: And and we've worked through this. We've had this software previous.

[2:39:27] Voice 6: So I worked with Dave Beeston with our consultants to go through that procedure to ensure that it's safe organizationally.

[2:39:36] Voice 6: It's not a new thing.

[2:39:37] Voice 6: And so the software maintenance cost is $5,000 per year to host the 3D models and other associated costs with the Freshwater Atlas by hosting that.

[2:39:51] Voice 6: And then the contractor services, the extra $12,000 is to extend our contractor who's filling in the organizational need that I was requiring of our previous GIS person who departed.

[2:40:13] Voice 6: And so the contractor is filling that role.

[2:40:17] Voice 6: And so there's a lot of, excuse me, some back end database work in the GIS system, which is beyond me.

[2:40:25] Voice 6: I don't do that stuff. And that's what that contractor has been doing for us.

[2:40:30] Voice 6: And this is an extension of that. Hope that answers the question.

[2:40:36] Trustee Patrick: Trustees, any other questions? Trustee Graham.

[2:40:46] Voice 9: Thank you. Thank you, William. So I don't know anything about this stuff.

[2:40:50] Voice 9: So I'm a real neophyte. So my questions may seem rather simple, but so it's a conceptualization.

[2:40:56] Voice 9: So that that suggests to me that it's it's the best guess as to what that aquifer looks like and how it reacts through the seasons.

[2:41:06] Voice 9: Is that true?

[2:41:09] Voice 6: So you have truth there.

[2:41:14] Voice 6: It is our best estimation of what the structure of these islands are with respect to the data inputs.

[2:41:26] Voice 6: And I use Salt Spring as an example because Salt Spring has really great geological mapping by Hugh Greenwood.

[2:41:35] Voice 6: He was an emeritus professor at UBC Geology, and he lives on Salt Spring.

[2:41:39] Voice 6: and he spent many years mapping the geology here with his grad students and he had some cross

[2:41:46] Voice 6: sections so his cross sections showed the structure of the island and and he mapped the entire island

[2:41:52] Voice 6: all the geological regions a beautiful map one of my favorites of all time and and so we also have

[2:41:58] Voice 6: the wells data and and so we and from from the wells database so we use machine learning to

[2:42:05] Voice 6: to pull apart all the data records, to get how deep the wells are, where they are,

[2:42:11] Voice 6: and what geology they drilled through by looking at the driller's records.

[2:42:14] Voice 6: And that's a whole other story.

[2:42:15] Voice 6: I won't belabor it here, but it's a novel approach that our consultant did for us

[2:42:21] Voice 6: to match the driller's notes to actual geology.

[2:42:26] Voice 6: And so we took all those things together and built a three-dimensional model.

[2:42:31] Voice 6: So for Salt Spring Island, between Dr. Greenwood's cross-sections, we interpolated between those, and then the wells are on top of it.

[2:42:41] Voice 6: And then as a viewer, you can cut slices like a slice through a cake, or you can shave off pieces like this.

[2:42:50] Voice 6: and um just by viewing it that way it gives a really interesting perspective to to um

[2:42:58] Voice 6: to wells and the relationship to to depth that's we don't a lot of people don't know that the

[2:43:03] Voice 6: majority of the wells on the coast are much below sea level and you can see that in the three

[2:43:08] Voice 6: dimensional model so for uh and kind of like an explore exploration of this stuff it's really

[2:43:14] Voice 6: interesting on the technical side of it it has already been used on salt spring we were requested

[2:43:21] Voice 6: by an applicant to provide them cross sections using the software to to work on a multi-family

[2:43:29] Voice 6: housing development just outside of ganges and and and that was really formative for that

[2:43:36] Voice 6: project to adjudicate their groundwater license and then eventually start working on a on on their

[2:43:44] Voice 6: on their water system there so that there's there's real land use applicability to this and

[2:43:52] Voice 6: can also be used by the province as well the the whole intention with with this request for

[2:43:58] Voice 6: decision is to facilitate that transfer right now we have all the models we can share them

[2:44:03] Voice 6: via file this is a way for for the public and for other interested parties to explore the data and

[2:44:12] Voice 6: And then if they need to request something of us, they have kind of a means to do that right now.

[2:44:16] Voice 6: That's it's just we just give them data and it's not or just finished files.

[2:44:21] Voice 6: And that's not helpful. And sorry, just one last thing that act for conceptualization and the recharge mapping project.

[2:44:31] Voice 6: As I said, it started with five LTCs in Southern Gulf Islands.

[2:44:35] Voice 6: and then the regional planning committee um was the owner of of two years of that project

[2:44:42] Voice 6: and it's been provided to us in consulting reports and i think there needs to be an

[2:44:48] Voice 6: opportunity for for island stress staff to create a compendium report that that that brings all those

[2:44:56] Voice 6: years together but then also provides the information on on why we've undertaken the

[2:45:04] Voice 6: work and and how it relates to to our organization and that hasn't been done yet and so i think

[2:45:10] Voice 6: that's that's something that um that the rpc can explore and and and if if that's desire then you

[2:45:20] Voice 6: know recommend staff to undertake that work because i think that's really important right

[2:45:23] Voice 6: now we just have consultant reports and and they're those consultant reports are really

[2:45:27] Voice 6: written for to staff not for public consumption and i think there's something missing there

[2:45:33] Voice 9: So just a follow-up question, if I may. So that works great for Salt Spring that has all of that great data. What about an island that doesn't have the geology mapped as thoroughly? And so many wells I know on Denman, there's no record of the, there's no monitoring of those wells. So what's the utility of this program for us outer islands?

[2:45:58] Voice 6: Yeah, great question. So Demen and Hornby was my demo of the aquifer conceptualization way back in 2017. I got a little bit of LTC money, I think it was like 10 grand when we started there. And there's pretty decent geology mapping on Demen because it's not as complex as Salt Spring is.

[2:46:16] Voice 6: and so it has been mapped out and and demin is a very structurally controlled island you you know

[2:46:23] Voice 6: it by looking at escarpment and and and how the island is formed and so it's also our our lidar

[2:46:30] Voice 6: 3d mapping really informs where those like geological structures are and demin's a big

[2:46:38] Voice 6: fold so there's some structures on one side on the other side and it's then it's just all geometry

[2:46:43] Voice 6: and that's the also the magic of the geological modeling program like it's used by mining

[2:46:49] Voice 6: companies and things like that so it intelligently does all that um that that uh um geometry and and

[2:46:58] Voice 6: the the consulting company that that did this work has done models of of equal size islands are very

[2:47:05] Voice 6: unique so there's a challenge there but um demin and hornby being in it's called an enamel group

[2:47:11] Voice 6: it's it's quite um predictive of of where that can be so so the geology is pretty good i would

[2:47:19] Voice 6: say like an island like saturn or maine it's still it's kind of difficult on some of the geology

[2:47:25] Voice 6: salt spring is by far the most geological complex island we have um but then also we have the wells

[2:47:31] Voice 6: data and you're right some some wells um records are just not there but but a lot of times we have

[2:47:37] Voice 6: a location of the well or really close to it and a depth and and that's really important and

[2:47:42] Voice 6: sometimes the drillers will report a water level so um and but the one thing that most drilling

[2:47:50] Voice 6: reports do is they tell you when they first get water like oh fracture at 145 feet or whatever

[2:47:56] Voice 6: so the the machine learning that we did on on the wells data extracted all that fracture information

[2:48:02] Voice 6: So we have like, like fracture tables in 3D that can be put into those models too. So this is almost a stretch, but it's possible if there's like a, an owner that's looking to drill a well that they can do some sort of preliminary look at their property and perhaps estimate how deep they have to go to get to that producing fracture, which would be really exciting if that tool manifests itself.

[2:48:30] Voice 6: And, and, and I think we're incrementally getting there to, to hopefully in the future to have the ability to, to have the freshwater outlets generate a report per parcel.

[2:48:43] Voice 6: Like that, that's kind of like one of the main objectives is, is to have a parcel based reporting tool of freshwater related data.

[2:48:53] Voice 6: So again, this is, this request for decision is, is actually quite a big leap to getting there.

[2:48:59] Voice 6: Thanks.

[2:49:00] Voice 6: Yeah.

[2:49:01] Voice 9: Thank you for those answers.

[2:49:03] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Boland.

[2:49:07] Voice 2: Thanks.

[2:49:08] Voice 2: Yeah, I find that, you know, if I go back through the various budget requests,

[2:49:15] Voice 2: so in January 2023, you prepared a request for, and I believe it went through

[2:49:23] Voice 2: and was approved for a co-op student and some funding to look at creating a freshwater atlas.

[2:49:31] Voice 2: and i mean that's two years ago if i'm not mistaken and um we haven't seen anything that

[2:49:42] Voice 2: i know of i mean i believe in freshwater atlas you know we could see something online and i think at

[2:49:49] Voice 2: the time we asked whether examples elsewhere that we could look at are there you know in

[2:49:54] Voice 2: Nanaimo or in the province the equivalent that we could see to kind of get our heads around what

[2:50:02] Voice 2: exactly it is that's going to be delivered and excuse me is it are you collaborating with

[2:50:10] Voice 2: um other regions on this atlas development thanks uh

[2:50:23] Voice 6: yeah thanks for those questions um

[2:50:25] Voice 6: Um, yeah, not to be dismissive, but I, we provided a lot of that information to the regional planning committee, like since that request for decision and we're in like the 10th out 10th, 11th hour here.

[2:50:37] Voice 6: Like we're, this is, we're getting close to the end of the project, um, like to roll this out phase one.

[2:50:45] Voice 6: And, um, we just had resource challenges with GIS that was the integral part to rolling it out.

[2:50:53] Voice 6: So we've been delayed on several projects, and I've stepped up on other projects like the suitable land analysis, and we're just trying to make this happen with lacking organizational structures.

[2:51:04] Voice 6: So if the Regional Planning Committee requests more information to make this request for decision, once we pull out that data, then we probably need a resolution for that.

[2:51:16] Voice 6: but um there's i think i've provided examples in the past of of where freshwater outlets or you can

[2:51:25] Voice 6: go to the bc uh water resources atlas and it's part of it we draw a lot of information from there

[2:51:32] Voice 6: and the the bc drought portal is a really good one even though but they've changed it in the last

[2:51:40] Voice 6: year um so that would be analysis i'd have to take on if the regional planning committee needs that

[2:51:47] Voice 6: but this we're we're getting really close here to having this online and available for um for

[2:51:58] Voice 6: the public um

[2:52:00] Trustee Elliott: yeah so on that point i was i was going to suggest that since this is uh to support

[2:52:10] Trustee Elliott: a visual modeling and essentially a communications tool a public facing communications tool

[2:52:17] Trustee Elliott: would it be possible to have um a few examples in the business case uh what it like not what

[2:52:25] Trustee Elliott: it could look like because it has yet to be developed but um do we have some you know could

[2:52:31] Trustee Elliott: you take screenshots of you know here's a a region and what the mapping could potentially

[2:52:38] Trustee Elliott: look like that would accompany this image is worth a thousand words uh i struggle with this

[2:52:43] Trustee Elliott: to to conceptualize it um and i think you know pushing this to the to the 12th hour um it could

[2:52:53] Trustee Elliott: help to have some some kind of image that would just articulate what this might look like in the

[2:52:59] Trustee Elliott: utility to um to the trust area and the province possible if it wasn't too much uh

[2:53:10] Voice 6: yeah and in all

[2:53:11] Voice 6: respect it's a lot i mean if it if if the rpc requires that to make this decision then yes but

[2:53:18] Voice 6: by taking on this decision you will have that like within you know a reasonable time frame

[2:53:25] Voice 6: where you know we're we're we're targeting to have this work done um by the end of this fiscal

[2:53:32] Voice 6: and this request for decision didn't need to happen but but there's been a lot of organizational

[2:53:38] Voice 6: challenges with resourcing including you know switching our cao and and contracts or we're

[2:53:44] Voice 6: delayed and all those things so we're actively working on this right now i have the contractor

[2:53:49] Voice 6: for um four thousand dollars a month for february and march and we're actively working on this so

[2:53:55] Voice 6: um if you need another touch point and and you need like some behind the scenes screenshots of

[2:54:03] Voice 6: what we're working on then that's we can do that i just don't have that right now um because we're

[2:54:09] Voice 6: undertaking this work um but it you know rest assured if this request for decision uh is a

[2:54:16] Voice 6: you know is is moved by the regional planning committee that's you know that's that's what

[2:54:22] Voice 6: you're you'll be getting the the result um which is a a lot of um visuals and and and we could even

[2:54:31] Voice 6: even do a soft launch with the regional planning committee to ensure that it's making sense and we

[2:54:37] Voice 6: and under contract we can if we do that when when we have the contractor under contract then we can

[2:54:44] Voice 6: make those changes as well to you know to to make sure it's the best product because this shouldn't

[2:54:49] Voice 6: just come from you know the freshwater team like this is owned by the regional planning committee

[2:54:54] Voice 6: so we can we can take those in and and then if we have the contractor working for us then we can

[2:55:00] Voice 6: actively um engage those recommendations from from the regional planning committee and i would be

[2:55:07] Voice 6: very grateful to have that opportunity because this is a communications tool you know as much

[2:55:12] Voice 6: as it is um the best way for us to share the data information from the from the five years

[2:55:19] Voice 6: of freshwater um projects that we've taken on yeah just a reminder

[2:55:26] Trustee Patrick: i'm just gonna say we're

[2:55:27] Trustee Patrick: We're not approving this today.

[2:55:28] Trustee Patrick: It's just a forwarded financial planning.

[2:55:30] Trustee Patrick: So that's, go ahead,

[2:55:33] Trustee Elliott: Trustee Elliott, sorry.

[2:55:34] Trustee Elliott: And that is my interest, is making the case as strong as possible so that council isn't

[2:55:40] Trustee Elliott: asking, okay, why do we need this again, and spending a lot of time discussing what it's

[2:55:45] Trustee Elliott: for.

[2:55:46] Trustee Elliott: Like, our function here is to advance work that supports Trust Council's strategic plan.

[2:55:52] Trustee Elliott: So making the pitch, saying this is a communications tool, to me, any modeling that's already been produced that wouldn't require a new, you know, piece of work could be helpful. That would just really ground this as being a public facing piece.

[2:56:13] Trustee Elliott: I support the work. I know the challenges with GIS and information services that has been just a massive loss over the last, I don't know, six months. So I'm not arguing with where things are at or the rationale for this request. I support it. It's just how can we best support it to make that case for this last piece that's needed. Thanks.

[2:56:37] Trustee Elliott: Thank you. Director Cermak.

[2:56:42] Voice 10: Thank you, Chair. I hear your requests and we recognize where we're at. I just want to

[2:56:49] Voice 10: remind you that the business case is for an extension of work already happening and already

[2:56:52] Voice 10: approved in the sense that, you know, Trust Council has already and RPC is already implementing the

[2:57:00] Voice 10: work that Trust Council has approved for this atlas. So, you know, asking them to go back to

[2:57:05] Voice 10: explain to them what they've already done seems perhaps redundant or what have you. But I think

[2:57:10] Voice 10: a few screenshots certainly contert if that's what the RPC is

[2:57:14] Voice 10: recommending. But the whole point was that we were getting to the stage

[2:57:18] Voice 10: of we've already been approved to do this work, we're doing the work, we just need a little bit more to get over

[2:57:22] Voice 10: the line. As William was saying, we're right there.

[2:57:26] Voice 10: So we thought it was a small ask and we don't have much time to put

[2:57:29] Voice 10: forward this business case to Financial Planning Committee and then onwards

[2:57:34] Voice 10: to Trust Council. If you think it'll help, sure, totally understand.

[2:57:37] Voice 10: But I just want to be conscious that this work has been approved. We're just asking for an extension of the existing contract and an extension in the sense of the annual software. So these were meant to be small asks, not a lot of work generated going forward.

[2:57:50] Voice 10: The

[2:57:51] Trustee Elliott: budget discussions are going to be tough. So financial planning committee has a lot sort of putting my executive hat on and many members here on that committee, there is continually more requests from other committees.

[2:58:06] Trustee Elliott: so we are going to see a bigger draft budget than i think we saw last time so i am just wanting to

[2:58:14] Trustee Elliott: support this work in the best way possible i think visuals would help but i don't want to

[2:58:20] Trustee Elliott: cause a bunch of last minute work around so i'll leave it to you to mull over sorry for

[2:58:25] Trustee Elliott: jumping in the queue right

[2:58:27] Voice 11: the trustee boland thanks

[2:58:32] Voice 2: um i think i heard you say um

[2:58:39] Voice 2: pressure water specialist Shobha that you would complete the work by we were at the 11th hour and

[2:58:45] Voice 2: would be completed in this fiscal year are we talking about the fiscal year ending in

[2:58:52] Voice 2: March 2026 or what I'm just a bit concerned about the use of the fiscal year as a deadline

[2:59:00] Voice 2: line constantly i'd prefer something more specific um also i just reflect on the fact that yes i

[2:59:08] Voice 2: acknowledge that you've had difficulties with the gist situation and resignations but

[2:59:15] Voice 2: um as far as i remember last year there was going to be somebody in a planning team who would assist

[2:59:20] Voice 2: and the co-op student would be present etc now that's fine things change but we don't get a

[2:59:29] Voice 2: a heads up on projects that have basically run into a wall when those things happen.

[2:59:39] Voice 2: The first time we get the heads up is when budget is requested or a project rolls over

[2:59:46] Voice 2: to the next year with the money unspent.

[2:59:49] Voice 2: And I think it would be very helpful if really the impact of those was raised as an alert

[2:59:56] Voice 2: earlier in the process so that we had an

[3:00:00] Voice 2: expectation that that project was not actually moving forward in any way. So I'll leave it at

[3:00:07] Voice 2: that for the moment. Thanks. Director Sirmac.

[3:00:13] Voice 10: Thank you. I want to remind again the RPC that

[3:00:16] Voice 10: we've committed to reporting to each RPC meeting as sort of an update on where we are with your

[3:00:20] Voice 10: top priorities, which includes the freshwater sustainability strategy. So we have been

[3:00:26] Voice 10: reporting as we know things have evolved. So the one exception would be perhaps as William was

[3:00:34] Voice 10: delicately dancing around, the need for this business case grew because his request to

[3:00:42] Voice 10: management and finance was delayed just through lack of getting into it, for lack of a better

[3:00:48] Voice 10: term. So this is the first chance we've been able to tell you. So I think you're getting it as

[3:00:55] Voice 10: as we can give it to you.

[3:00:57] Voice 10: And we've committed to reporting

[3:00:58] Voice 10: at each and every RPC meeting to do so.

[3:01:00] Voice 10: And I think we've demonstrated that quite well.

[3:01:04] Voice 6: And through the chair to clarify

[3:01:06] Voice 6: on the fiscal year comment from trustee Bowman.

[3:01:15] Voice 6: So the conversation and like the project updates

[3:01:19] Voice 6: that I was having with the regional planning committee

[3:01:21] Voice 6: was that I was actively,

[3:01:23] Voice 6: that we've been actively working on the freshwater atlas since we presented it and it has not hit a

[3:01:30] Voice 6: brick wall we've been working on it the the challenge with um with the departure of our

[3:01:38] Voice 6: gis uh coordinator technical person i forgot her actual term but um was that was the component

[3:01:46] Voice 6: where the Freshwater Atlas was to a point

[3:01:51] Voice 6: where it flips over to database management

[3:01:54] Voice 6: and including all of the,

[3:01:59] Voice 6: like the Freshwater Sustainability Project

[3:02:02] Voice 6: is almost doubling the amount of layers

[3:02:04] Voice 6: that's in the GIS system of the Atlas Trust.

[3:02:08] Voice 6: And that takes a lot.

[3:02:10] Voice 6: And there's a lot of backend database work

[3:02:15] Voice 6: and and and making um efficiencies within these layers that they can be viewed online

[3:02:24] Voice 6: this this is like high level technical spatial analyst stuff that we had in in-house which was

[3:02:33] Voice 6: our like our gis person who left was was working well beyond her scope of work and job description

[3:02:41] Voice 6: to have this and so i'm just lucky to have in in in our network of contractors um the current

[3:02:49] Voice 6: contractors working on now that has that experience and can take on that work and

[3:02:53] Voice 6: be a bridge stop between then and when we get our new gis coordinator so um you know that this this

[3:03:00] Voice 6: work is has been full steam ahead no brick walls that's all i want to say thanks well

[3:03:07] Trustee Patrick: i wanted to

[3:03:07] Trustee Patrick: to jump in and thanks for the brick wall lead in.

[3:03:10] Trustee Patrick: This is the rock that my house is on top of, rock aquifers.

[3:03:16] Trustee Patrick: And I just want to warn, I speak loudly

[3:03:20] Trustee Patrick: and have someone collaborate here with me

[3:03:23] Trustee Patrick: that predicting fractures and rocks is very difficult.

[3:03:31] Trustee Patrick: And we should have to be very careful

[3:03:33] Trustee Patrick: about what we're promising and what this data is

[3:03:36] Trustee Patrick: and what it means.

[3:03:37] Trustee Patrick: and who are we doing this for are we helping developers develop the islands and giving them

[3:03:42] Trustee Patrick: free access to data i'm a little concerned it's expensive and if that's our intent we should be

[3:03:48] Trustee Patrick: clear because that's subsidizing development and i hoped that we weren't doing that um

[3:03:55] Trustee Patrick: so i am a little bit concerned i heard you say you have a goal to get down to the lot level i mean

[3:03:59] Trustee Patrick: whose goal um i i that's expensive that's concerning of um you know to me it is illustrative

[3:04:07] Trustee Patrick: This is illustrative. So we have to be careful of what level we are committing to.

[3:04:14] Trustee Patrick: And I hope there's lots of caveats and whose interest it is that is digging through and looking at this and if development decisions really could be made on this material or not.

[3:04:24] Trustee Patrick: so it just raises a lot of questions for me um my concern with the with the um business case is

[3:04:34] Trustee Patrick: that it be very i mean it says annual starting um but the business i think it needs to be very

[3:04:41] Trustee Patrick: clear that this is you know this is committing to a five thousand dollar future commitment um it's

[3:04:50] Trustee Patrick: It's there, but I don't know if it needs to be bolded or read or something that this is an annual fee going forward to maintain this information.

[3:05:05] Trustee Patrick: But I, you know, this is part of the reason why I've been asking about the implementation plan is some of the yings and yangs, the choices that we have and what kind of data, you know, this illustrative and modeling and Atlas will be interesting.

[3:05:18] Trustee Patrick: interesting but man what I'd really like to know is how deep is the groundwater right now

[3:05:22] Trustee Patrick: you know I can tell you for January it's a foot lower than it was last year in my neighborhood

[3:05:28] Trustee Patrick: anyway that's interesting data and really helps to you know to bring some questions should we be

[3:05:35] Trustee Patrick: when we have to make choices of where we're spending where do we want to see our investments

[3:05:42] Trustee Patrick: put into groundwater I think it's important that we think that I understand this is continuing to

[3:05:47] Trustee Patrick: to get this work done.

[3:05:48] Trustee Patrick: I think we have to be really careful.

[3:05:51] Trustee Patrick: Go ahead, William.

[3:05:55] Voice 6: Yeah, thanks.

[3:05:56] Voice 6: I'll try to work from the back for, yeah,

[3:05:59] Voice 6: this is work that RPC has endorsed in the past

[3:06:05] Voice 6: and this is our communications

[3:06:09] Voice 6: on these major projects, right?

[3:06:11] Voice 6: So I think that there's behind this ask,

[3:06:14] Voice 6: there's close to $400,000 worth of work

[3:06:22] Voice 6: of islands trust money right on projects something like that um so so yeah there's been a lot of

[3:06:31] Voice 6: structured investment and of course we money doesn't come easily in this organization so

[3:06:37] Voice 6: there's been a lot of decision making and a lot of forward and backward steps on that um and i i

[3:06:43] Voice 6: agree with you on the parcel level so i don't want to say that's a personal ambition but whenever i

[3:06:48] Voice 6: speak to planning staff that's you know it's it'd be helpful we work on the planning level

[3:06:54] Voice 6: uh i want to comment on is this for developers the ltc controls development i think like expansion

[3:07:02] Voice 6: of it anyway um what what this really did help is for the dragonfly they were looking at water

[3:07:09] Voice 6: and they wanted to ensure that their artesian wells um weren't impacting the springs and

[3:07:15] Voice 6: ganges creek and and providing staff providing cross-sections to that project was really helpful

[3:07:22] Voice 6: for everybody involved including the province they looked at them um and and i agree with you about

[3:07:28] Voice 6: what are we promising here right and and you know the cross-sections was like staff me providing

[3:07:36] Voice 6: a some type of map or a cross-section to to the applicants consultants so um you know how how we

[3:07:45] Voice 6: we how we take inquiries on this work is is another story that we that that's something we

[3:07:51] Voice 6: should need to work out and that would be part of like i think a lot of the implementation planning

[3:07:56] Voice 6: around freshwater sustainability strategy is not so much big project work it's like what are the

[3:08:01] Voice 6: policies around inquiries what are the policies around um uh what we're promising with this work

[3:08:10] Voice 6: because you're right predicting fractures is impossible is really difficult looking at like

[3:08:15] Voice 6: what we're providing has inherent error even the suitable land analysis that i presented on today

[3:08:21] Voice 6: to the horn bltc has an associated amount of error with it and so yeah that i i really want to dig

[3:08:28] Voice 6: into these questions but it's it's you know it that's it's a project in itself to undertake that

[3:08:34] Voice 6: work right it's nothing that staff in a vacuum can just present to the to regional planning committee

[3:08:40] Voice 6: because it's driving the strategy um you know i'm a technocratic person and i think having more you

[3:08:50] Voice 6: know planning staff around me to to undertake that work is is needed yeah thanks thank you

[3:08:58] Trustee Patrick: uh trustees we have a business case before us i've heard some suggestions

[3:09:05] Trustee Patrick: uh i think we've raised some concerns trustee elliott well

[3:09:10] Trustee Elliott: i'll just um suggest that we request

[3:09:13] Trustee Elliott: um some kind of visual representation to accompany this business case if it could be the the previous

[3:09:20] Trustee Elliott: cross-section that you provided in the salt spring case some work that's already been produced um i

[3:09:28] Trustee Elliott: and better articulate that or just clarify or highlight that this is a uh it'll be an ongoing

[3:09:37] Trustee Elliott: licensing fee i think that does it sort of ticked over in my mind does this need to go to

[3:09:44] Trustee Elliott: uh executive committee or i don't know it's it's part of the whole project it's part of the

[3:09:48] Trustee Elliott: strategic plan i'm not arguing with it just want to make this business case strong so

[3:09:52] Trustee Elliott: So I move that RPC request staff to include some visual representation of an example of the modeling to support the business case for implementing the freshwater atlas.

[3:10:13] Trustee Elliott: Is that too fast?

[3:10:15] Trustee Patrick: Before it's seconded anyway, Rob will bring it up when he's ready.

[3:10:19] Trustee Patrick: Let's look at it slowly.

[3:10:21] Trustee Patrick: In the meantime, Trustee Graham, did you have something?

[3:10:29] Voice 9: It was just a suggestion.

[3:10:31] Voice 9: I thought if you just insert the word enhanced business case, staff have heard your concerns.

[3:10:37] Voice 9: They want this to be successful.

[3:10:38] Voice 9: So, I mean, you've given them enough direction.

[3:10:41] Voice 9: That's a great idea of including the visuals that were used on the Salt Spring Island case that was just described.

[3:10:48] Voice 9: Anyway, I just thought I would add that before we started wordsmithing a rather complicated motion.

[3:10:58] Trustee Elliott: yeah so let's take a look at that word example needs to be there visual representation

[3:11:03] Trustee Elliott: to oh of the yeah or an example

[3:11:10] Trustee Patrick: of the visual representation it was yeah i think it's an

[3:11:13] Trustee Patrick: example of yeah

[3:11:14] Trustee Elliott: of the yes

[3:11:16] Trustee Elliott: thank you the modeling and do we need to specify

[3:11:21] Trustee Elliott: no to support the business case or did you say enhance trustee graham

[3:11:26] Trustee Elliott: enhance let's change

[3:11:28] Voice 9: that that's what i said an enhanced business case okay the original motion

[3:11:32] Voice 9: just says a business case i was suggesting you use the word enhance which would reflect the

[3:11:37] Voice 9: discussion that we've had here but a separate motion is fine also what you're doing is just fine

[3:11:41] Voice 9: well

[3:11:42] Trustee Elliott: check out what's on the screen does that work to enhance the business case

[3:11:48] Trustee Elliott: yeah okay all

[3:11:52] Trustee Patrick: right how's that look everything's all right do you want to make that motion then

[3:11:57] Trustee Elliott: trusty elliott

[3:12:00] Trustee Elliott: actually is the last word modeling necessary what are we calling this

[3:12:04] Trustee Elliott: oh um atlas case of the what

[3:12:08] Voice 11: is this atlas

[3:12:09] Trustee Elliott: yeah it's a freshwater atlas

[3:12:14] Voice 4: freshwater

[3:12:14] Trustee Elliott: atlas yep case yeah thanks yeah i move that regional planning committee

[3:12:23] Trustee Elliott: staff to include an example of the visual representation of

[3:12:32] Trustee Elliott: of, it's still very awkward. I'm just going to stop there for a second.

[3:12:37] Trustee Patrick: Does this make sense?

[3:12:39] Trustee Patrick: The product, maybe it's not the product, a visual representation of the product.

[3:12:45] Trustee Patrick: So instead of the modeling, I think it's just switch out Rob modeling with product.

[3:12:52] Trustee Patrick: William, do you have a... Does

[3:12:54] Trustee Elliott: that work? Because we haven't produced the product yet. We need

[3:12:57] Trustee Elliott: this to produce the product, but sorry. Okay. I'll stop.

[3:13:01] Trustee Elliott: up um suggestions

[3:13:05] Trustee Elliott: yes

[3:13:06] Voice 6: i am confused on what the regional planning committee is asking here of me

[3:13:12] Voice 6: so um we we just received the contract for a contractor to undertake this work

[3:13:21] Voice 6: and at the end of january and and so since you know the business case is to extend it

[3:13:29] Voice 6: I'm having my kickoff meeting with that contractor next week.

[3:13:33] Voice 6: So for us to have a visual representation of a product is not going to make

[3:13:37] Voice 6: the February 19th meeting of FPC.

[3:13:42] Voice 6: So I

[3:13:43] Trustee Patrick: think people were talking about,

[3:13:44] Trustee Patrick: you were describing something you did on salt spring.

[3:13:48] Voice 6: So this word product, I'm not sure what that is.

[3:13:52] Voice 6: I think if you want to have an example of aqua conceptualization model,

[3:13:58] Voice 6: then put that and I can provide three slides to Stefan or Director Cermak to include in this

[3:14:06] Voice 6: because we're gonna have to turn it around on Monday for for the agenda package right to FPCM

[3:14:12] Voice 6: I think I'm reading that right so so if it's for the freshwater outlist in total that's a big ask

[3:14:18] Voice 6: if it's just for the models I can provide three examples or something like that I think that's

[3:14:25] Voice 6: for

[3:14:25] Trustee Patrick: the models so yes

[3:14:26] Voice 6: representation

[3:14:27] Trustee Patrick: of 3d model would that help

[3:14:30] Voice 6: act for conceptualization model

[3:14:32] Voice 6: that's what they

[3:14:32] Trustee Patrick: are okay representation of the aquifer conceptualization model yeah

[3:14:37] Voice 6: there

[3:14:39] Voice 6: models

[3:14:40] Trustee Patrick: i

[3:14:41] Voice 6: guess okay you can put

[3:14:43] Voice 6: models yeah thank

[3:14:45] Trustee Elliott: you all right thanks keep reading

[3:14:47] Trustee Elliott: oh is there

[3:14:49] Trustee Elliott: anything else yep nope go william i move the regional planning committee request

[3:14:54] Trustee Elliott: staff to include an example of the still bad examples of the visual okay to include can i

[3:15:06] Voice 6: friendly amendment just to to include visual representation of just take out the examples of

[3:15:13] Voice 6: the that's

[3:15:14] Trustee Elliott: what i was struggling you

[3:15:15] Voice 6: don't need that yeah

[3:15:16] Trustee Elliott: visual representation okay i i moved

[3:15:19] Trustee Elliott: that regional planning committee request staff to include visual representation of the aquifer

[3:15:23] Trustee Elliott: for conceptualization models to enhance the business case for the freshwater atlas thank you

[3:15:31] Trustee Elliott: all

[3:15:34] Trustee Patrick: right we have a motion do we have a second second by trustee graham any discussion on this

[3:15:43] Trustee Patrick: motion i'll call the vote then all those in favor carries

[3:15:55] Voice 6: thank you hi chair i think i think uh

[3:15:59] Voice 6: trustee elliott said business case for the freshwater atlas yeah i

[3:16:03] Trustee Elliott: did change it last

[3:16:04] Trustee Elliott: last minute thanks right sure that's uh thank

[3:16:09] Trustee Patrick: you all right um now we still have the forwarding

[3:16:14] Trustee Patrick: motions uh trustee graham happy

[3:16:19] Voice 9: to make that motion if uh unless there's any more

[3:16:21] Voice 9: consideration or confidence to make

[3:16:24] Trustee Patrick: no there could be comments but go ahead whoops

[3:16:29] Trustee Patrick: no go

[3:16:30] Voice 9: ahead that's right there i moved that the regional planning committee forward to

[3:16:35] Voice 9: the Financial Planning Committee for inclusion

[3:16:36] Voice 9: in fiscal year 25-26 budget,

[3:16:39] Voice 9: a business case for Freshwater Atlas of $17,000.

[3:16:44] Voice 9: Is

[3:16:45] Trustee Patrick: there a second to this motion?

[3:16:50] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Boland,

[3:16:51] Voice 2: are you seconding or no?

[3:16:53] Voice 2: Just a clarification question before we go ahead.

[3:16:58] Voice 2: Does this mean that we've approved it

[3:17:01] Voice 2: or who actually approves it?

[3:17:05] Trustee Patrick: It's forwarding it to Financial Planning Committee

[3:17:07] Trustee Patrick: for their consideration to add to the budget?

[3:17:12] Voice 2: So, do we need to make that a bit more explicit?

[3:17:17] Voice 2: No.

[3:17:18] Voice 2: The Financial Planning Committee will decide to include it.

[3:17:25] Voice 2: Director Surma.

[3:17:27] Voice 10: Would have been the third time today.

[3:17:29] Voice 10: All good.

[3:17:30] Voice 10: So, thank you for the question.

[3:17:32] Voice 10: You know, we get better at this every year, at least I do.

[3:17:34] Voice 10: The business case with this resolution

[3:17:37] Voice 10: means that the regional planning committee

[3:17:40] Voice 10: is sponsoring this request.

[3:17:43] Voice 10: And financial planning committee

[3:17:44] Voice 10: may decide whether or not to include it.

[3:17:47] Voice 10: And if they don't,

[3:17:49] Voice 10: we'll still afford it to trust council,

[3:17:51] Voice 10: but it will be, say,

[3:17:52] Voice 10: without the support of financial planning committee.

[3:17:54] Voice 10: Is that clear?

[3:17:56] Voice 10: So hopefully we get the support

[3:17:57] Voice 10: of financial planning committee.

[3:17:58] Voice 10: It goes as one big package

[3:17:59] Voice 10: and then it's less debate.

[3:18:01] Voice 10: But that's the path I understand

[3:18:02] Voice 10: that it'll proceed with.

[3:18:05] Voice 10: It becomes a regional planning committee's

[3:18:07] Voice 10: approved budget request thanks

[3:18:11] Voice 2: for the clarification that's kind of an interesting

[3:18:13] Voice 2: twist on all of these things okay thank you we

[3:18:17] Trustee Patrick: still need a second to this motion it was moved by

[3:18:19] Trustee Patrick: a second by trustee elliott now so we have any debate i know i have a comment

[3:18:29] Trustee Patrick: um i'm i i'll i mean i'll support moving this forward to financial planning committee

[3:18:39] Trustee Patrick: but I am getting a little concerned of the amount that we are investing.

[3:18:45] Trustee Patrick: And I think we're going to have to be prepared in March to be able to say,

[3:18:49] Trustee Patrick: how are we comparing to other regional districts that have water services that

[3:18:53] Trustee Patrick: are funded by million dollar requisitions for larger populations that we're

[3:19:02] Trustee Patrick: really moving forward in good investment on good investment and producing

[3:19:06] Trustee Patrick: material that has true purpose and usefulness and that we're not overselling what we're

[3:19:15] Trustee Patrick: providing. So that's what I'd like to say. Is there any other debate? None. All right. Then

[3:19:28] Trustee Patrick: I'll call the vote. All those in favor? That's carried. There you go. For more arguments to come.

[3:19:39] Trustee Patrick: It will be a challenging budget, just to be warned.

[3:19:43] Trustee Patrick: Okay, Director Cermak.

[3:19:45] Voice 6: Thank you, Chair.

[3:19:46] Voice 10: Thank you, Chair.

[3:19:47] Voice 10: Thank you, William.

[3:19:48] Voice 10: I just thought to follow up, maybe you might want to make a resolution, as we mentioned before,

[3:19:53] Voice 10: that we will report at every regional planning committee about the progress of each one of your top priorities.

[3:20:00] Voice 10: 30s. We sort of danced around the topic of bringing back the freshwater atlas for your

[3:20:07] Voice 10: review before it gets posted online. So you could sort of help develop some of the communication

[3:20:11] Voice 10: materials associated with it. If you want to sort of help massage the message, that's a term I'm

[3:20:16] Voice 10: allowed to use. And looking at timelines, I would suggest it's probably July and William can nod or

[3:20:23] Voice 10: deny with me. He can work with me. I'm going off the cuff here. So perhaps you'd like a resolution

[3:20:27] Voice 10: resolution saying that the freshwater atlas deliverables return in July's regional planning

[3:20:33] Voice 10: committee for further discussion or something along those lines. And I think that might be an

[3:20:38] Voice 10: opportune time as well. If you would like an audit, for lack of a better term, of the strategy, which

[3:20:44] Voice 10: is an excellent idea, and you're asking for an external audit, that's a business case, that could

[3:20:49] Voice 10: be the time that you ask us to produce that business case, or at least we inform that information for

[3:20:55] Voice 10: consideration of the following budget so that might all just come together quite nicely in july

[3:21:04] Trustee Patrick: okay so um if i can understand what you were potentially suggesting is that we this committee

[3:21:14] Trustee Patrick: should see the public atlas before it's public the water atlas before it's public is that generally

[3:21:21] Trustee Patrick: um and i would absolutely support and agree with that so that we kind of know what's going

[3:21:28] Trustee Patrick: going out there. And you said that would be July-ish. So we would need a resolution.

[3:21:36] Trustee Patrick: The Regional Planning Committee is requesting staff to bring to, you can help me here,

[3:21:45] Trustee Patrick: Stephan, because I'm not making motion. I'm just working on the wording.

[3:21:48] Voice 10: That the RPC request to have to report back in July 2025, the results of the freshwater atlas.

[3:21:57] Voice 10: us and let's just leave it there and then we can add all the extras prior

[3:22:04] Trustee Patrick: to it going public okay

[3:22:07] Voice 6: i'm sorry um chair i would prefer if you left it as this because if if if the business case

[3:22:17] Voice 6: we for doesn't get funded there might be um an impact for it to go in public so if we don't get

[3:22:25] Voice 6: the business case supported um at trust council then when i report back i'll report back on the

[3:22:31] Voice 6: results of the freshwater atlas and what shape it's in because if i don't have my con if i if

[3:22:37] Voice 6: the contract isn't extended um it won't like we'll see what we can get done between now at the end of

[3:22:44] Voice 6: march 31st but i just want to leave it at that would

[3:22:50] Trustee Patrick: the word be instead of the results the

[3:22:52] Trustee Patrick: fresh one be the status of the freshwater sure

[3:22:54] Voice 6: sure because then this if the status is ready

[3:22:57] Voice 6: to go online and that's how what I'll be presenting to to you right yeah thanks

[3:23:03] Trustee Patrick: trustee Boland your

[3:23:04] Trustee Patrick: hands raised well

[3:23:09] Voice 2: sorry I'll move for a second that whichever you want and then I have something

[3:23:14] Voice 2: else to ask later thanks um

[3:23:16] Trustee Patrick: you could go ahead and move if you could read it then

[3:23:19] Voice 2: sure I moved

[3:23:21] Voice 2: that the region planning committee request staff to report back in July 2025 the status of the

[3:23:26] Voice 2: the Freshwater Atlas.

[3:23:29] Voice 2: Is there a second?

[3:23:32] Trustee Patrick: Seconded by Trustee Graham.

[3:23:36] Trustee Patrick: Any discussion?

[3:23:39] Trustee Patrick: All the vote then, all those in favor?

[3:23:44] Trustee Patrick: Well, and that carries, I think.

[3:23:48] Trustee Patrick: Yep, yes, okay, that carries.

[3:23:53] Trustee Patrick: All right, anything else on that business case, Freshwater?

[3:24:01] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Boland?

[3:24:04] Voice 2: Yeah, thanks for the suggestion, Director Cermak.

[3:24:08] Voice 2: I appreciate the suggestion about the review or audit.

[3:24:14] Voice 2: I'm a bit dismayed that we would start preparing a business case for the following year.

[3:24:21] Voice 2: I would like to think that we could do something in this coming year, but I'm not sure, you know, how we could achieve that at this late date.

[3:24:32] Voice 2: um is there first of all i do have a motion which we could perhaps just make it specific that we're

[3:24:40] Voice 2: going to start talking about it in july but is there a way that it could be funded and partly

[3:24:46] Voice 2: out of that grant that you're submitting like it wouldn't be a bad thing to do a sort of a benchmark

[3:24:53] Voice 2: before that entire five hundred thousand dollar project kicks off assuming that you get that

[3:24:59] Voice 2: that funding, thanks.

[3:25:02] Trustee Patrick: Let's see, well, then Shula's hand raised.

[3:25:06] Voice 6: Yeah, thanks.

[3:25:07] Voice 6: So tying it to the Watershed Security Fund application

[3:25:13] Voice 6: that the Freshwater Atlas is a living tool.

[3:25:19] Voice 6: It's going to, it's flexible.

[3:25:23] Voice 6: It's gonna continuously throughout the course

[3:25:27] Voice 6: of project work I'm going to stop

[3:25:31] Trustee Patrick: you William because I know that trustee Boland was not

[3:25:33] Trustee Patrick: talking about the atlas I believe she was talking about the program trustee Boland

[3:25:39] Voice 2: no William you

[3:25:41] Voice 2: weren't here before lunch and we talked about that it would be a good idea to have a review

[3:25:46] Voice 2: of the freshwater strategy and accomplishments with the view to updating it and considering

[3:25:55] Voice 2: resource requirements, given that we're halfway through the 10-year proposed timeline.

[3:26:03] Voice 2: And so I don't think it would be a bad thing at the beginning of effectively 50% of the

[3:26:11] Voice 2: spend on this 10-year strategy beginning, that 500,000, if you get that 500,000, having

[3:26:18] Voice 2: Having some sort of external benchmark review of where we are with respect to that strategic plan, I think, could be a helpful starting point.

[3:26:30] Voice 2: So that might be a way to fund that immediately rather than putting it off to 2026 or beyond.

[3:26:41] Voice 2: That's just a suggestion. I'd welcome any discussion of that.

[3:26:46] Voice 2: oh

[3:26:47] Voice 6: yeah sorry through the chair i misunderstood that um um i i i i i'll reserve my my comment

[3:26:58] Voice 6: maybe but i i'm any external um uh support or a review or even audit on the freshwater

[3:27:08] Voice 6: sustainability strategy is is um yes it was really welcomed it it was never supposed to

[3:27:16] Voice 6: just be in the hands of staff one of the first uh priorities that are listed in the strategy that we

[3:27:22] Voice 6: haven't undertaken is to have an interdepartmental team which is not true just sticks with planning

[3:27:27] Voice 6: staff and to also have some sort of technical advisory committee that has external members

[3:27:33] Voice 6: on it to inform the um the direction of of the freshwater stability strategy because it shouldn't

[3:27:40] Voice 6: just be in the hands of staff and and trustees it's it's meant for you know the island trust

[3:27:45] Voice 6: trustee area of the community, but also to reach our mandate for the province in general. So

[3:27:51] Voice 6: I imagine that any given audit is going to see that there's, you know, like, yeah, we've missed

[3:27:58] Voice 6: the mark on early priorities of the strategy, and we've just been carrying on project work.

[3:28:04] Voice 6: So, yeah, no, I'll leave it at that. Thanks.

[3:28:11] Trustee Patrick: Okay, so Trustee Bullen, did you want to proceed

[3:28:13] Trustee Patrick: with anything? Or we'll just wait till July to have this, or May or July to have the next

[3:28:18] Trustee Patrick: conversation when what is the status and expectation of the grant yeah thank you chair

[3:28:23] Voice 6: i was just going to raise my hand when you said july because uh the grant's being adjudicated as

[3:28:29] Voice 6: we speak and we should know by the end of march early april they they said money by may so next

[3:28:37] Voice 6: time we meet we could have this this grant and and and and the i i don't think that would

[3:28:47] Voice 6: would supersede or cancel out the need that Trustee Boland has, or I mean, imagine the RPC had a conversation with us, I shouldn't say Trustee Boland, on, you know, auditing or looking at the next steps of this freshwater sustainability strategy, because indeed, that would enrich in the freshwater footprint project.

[3:29:08] Voice 6: And it is within the Freshwater Footprint Project and within the grant application that we are asking to develop these organizational structures within the strategy that we have missed.

[3:29:19] Voice 6: So, you know, this project is really to continue on strategically and the freshwater footprint project is a strategic project that engages all the programs of the strategy and also the underlying organizational structure of the strategy as well.

[3:29:41] Voice 6: so if you know if there's an addition to that like an audit or something then um then

[3:29:48] Voice 6: that that would be that would just be complementary to

[3:29:52] Voice 6: to the grant and the projects we have two years to undertake the the grant so thank you

[3:30:00] Trustee Patrick: Right, Trustee Boland, I think you're...

[3:30:01] Voice 2: So I could make a motion that we discuss this in July.

[3:30:07] Voice 2: So I have a central issue...

[3:30:08] Voice 2: It could be May.

[3:30:10] Trustee Patrick: Pardon?

[3:30:11] Trustee Patrick: I said it could be May, it sounds like.

[3:30:13] Trustee Patrick: May would be the better timing.

[3:30:15] Voice 2: Okay, do we have a meeting in May?

[3:30:17] Voice 2: So that at the May Regional Planning Committee meeting,

[3:30:22] Voice 2: a mid-term independent review of the 10-year

[3:30:26] Voice 2: of freshwater strategic plan accomplishments to date be conducted in order to update and

[3:30:34] Voice 2: resource the plan would be considered i have sent that to rob sorry for speaking so quickly i'm

[3:30:42] Voice 2: reading it but it's basically what i put at the front of it that it's discussed

[3:30:48] Trustee Patrick: or would this

[3:30:50] Trustee Patrick: better be to say would be putting this on the agenda for me okay i think that would be so let's

[3:30:55] Trustee Patrick: play with the wording here so that the staff

[3:30:59] Voice 2: include in the

[3:31:00] Trustee Patrick: agenda yeah including the discussion

[3:31:02] Trustee Patrick: of may um agenda a midterm independent the discussion yeah of a midterm independent

[3:31:14] Trustee Patrick: and

[3:31:18] Voice 2: then the end needs to be uh removed just take yeah in order

[3:31:25] Voice 2: to be conducted yeah you

[3:31:28] Voice 2: can do start

[3:31:29] Trustee Patrick: there yep there we go yes remove the rest

[3:31:32] Trustee Patrick: okay

[3:31:33] Voice 2: how

[3:31:35] Trustee Patrick: does that look um fine that'll

[3:31:41] Trustee Patrick: do yeah that'll do the job thank you

[3:31:43] Trustee Patrick: i see we have a william's hand up oh

[3:31:47] Voice 6: yeah uh thank you chair just to clarify so

[3:31:50] Voice 6: So an independent review, is it implicit that that's external?

[3:31:56] Voice 6: Like we'll be going to procurement to procure someone to undertake this review or is it?

[3:32:01] Trustee Patrick: This is a discussion item for the agenda.

[3:32:03] Trustee Patrick: So I think that would be options would be something that would be discussed.

[3:32:07] Voice 6: Right.

[3:32:08] Voice 6: Okay.

[3:32:08] Voice 6: Thank you.

[3:32:12] Voice 2: Go ahead.

[3:32:13] Voice 2: Okay.

[3:32:14] Voice 2: Yeah.

[3:32:14] Voice 2: Because, no, let's leave it to me.

[3:32:16] Voice 2: I mean, I think that's fine.

[3:32:18] Voice 2: This is a good step forward.

[3:32:19] Voice 2: So, sorry, yeah.

[3:32:22] Voice 2: I see Director Cermak's hand raised.

[3:32:25] Voice 10: You know, intuitively I understand where you're trying to get at, Trustee Boland, and I appreciate it.

[3:32:30] Voice 10: I do think any time we've had a strategy, it's good to review.

[3:32:34] Voice 10: I'm just not sure what then I'd be asking staff to do.

[3:32:38] Voice 10: Are you just going to put this as a discussion item, or do you want us to report back?

[3:32:42] Voice 10: So I just need clarity about what the deliverable is from staff.

[3:32:46] Voice 10: If you just want an agenda item and you want a free-form discussion, great.

[3:32:48] Voice 10: then there's no work for staff.

[3:32:50] Voice 10: But if you want staff to develop options,

[3:32:52] Voice 10: I sort of need a little bit of clarity

[3:32:54] Voice 10: about what the deliverable is here.

[3:32:58] Trustee Patrick: Go ahead, Trustee Boland.

[3:32:59] Voice 2: Yeah, I don't think you need to do much

[3:33:02] Voice 2: other than perhaps put it as an agenda

[3:33:04] Voice 2: and give a link to this original strategy

[3:33:09] Voice 2: and the fact that we're halfway through a 10-year program.

[3:33:14] Voice 2: I mean, that's all I would expect at this stage.

[3:33:16] Voice 2: I don't want to load somebody up

[3:33:18] Voice 2: with a bunch of analysis that we don't need right now.

[3:33:21] Voice 2: I think it's a fairly high level discussion

[3:33:25] Voice 2: and I think it's all we would need.

[3:33:27] Voice 2: Anybody else want to jump in and say yes or no?

[3:33:34] Trustee Elliott: I think it's a good idea to start this process early.

[3:33:37] Trustee Elliott: Midterm check-in sounds great.

[3:33:42] Voice 2: Okay, well, I'm happy to move this now then, if that's okay.

[3:33:45] Voice 2: Yes, please proceed.

[3:33:47] Voice 2: Okay, I move that Regional Planning Committee

[3:33:50] Voice 2: include in the May Regional Planning Committee

[3:33:52] Voice 2: agenda the discussion of a mid-term independent review of the 10-year freshwater strategic plan

[3:33:59] Voice 2: and accomplishments to date is

[3:34:02] Trustee Patrick: there a second second by uh trustee elliott any discussion

[3:34:09] Trustee Patrick: being none i'll call the vote all those in favor and that carries

[3:34:22] Trustee Patrick: all right well thank you everyone i think we've almost what time is this meeting supposed to go

[3:34:33] Trustee Patrick: total three o'clock oh my goodness i was gonna say sucks we almost ran out the clock on this

[3:34:38] Trustee Patrick: bylaw enforcement but i think we'll have some time on the agenda because i see

[3:34:42] Trustee Patrick: warren bingman standing by patiently so if there's no further um on that business thank you william

[3:34:49] Trustee Patrick: for presenting today and um uh we have the next item is 7.6 on the agenda and this is the bylaw

[3:34:59] Trustee Patrick: enforcement review project we were kind of working our way through the manual so uh where did we leave

[3:35:10] Trustee Patrick: off chair

[3:35:13] Voice 5: i believe you left off at finishing up section six thank

[3:35:21] Trustee Patrick: you what page is that on

[3:35:22] Trustee Patrick: our agenda package here as i scroll through if

[3:35:29] Voice 5: you want to work from the clean copy that would

[3:35:31] Voice 5: be page 42 page

[3:35:35] Trustee Patrick: 42 but you have a red line there's also

[3:35:38] Voice 5: attached a red line and attached

[3:35:39] Voice 5: It's attached as a table tracking the changes from last meeting and the changes were incorporated from last meeting.

[3:35:52] Trustee Patrick: Okay, let's just have an agreement.

[3:35:54] Trustee Patrick: Which version would people like to look at?

[3:36:04] Voice 2: Track changes version, I think.

[3:36:07] Voice 2: Track change version?

[3:36:19] Voice 2: Although if we start from after the track changes, I suppose it doesn't make any difference.

[3:36:26] Voice 5: Yeah, just for the committee's benefit, my mate chair, it's actually a combined version.

[3:36:31] Voice 5: So it takes the clean version and the original,

[3:36:35] Voice 5: or I guess the current version of policy 5.5.1

[3:36:39] Voice 5: and does a comparison with them.

[3:36:42] Voice 5: So every change that has been made to current policy,

[3:36:46] Voice 5: test council policy 5.5.1 is shown

[3:36:48] Voice 5: in the track changes version.

[3:36:50] Voice 5: So it can be a bit confusing to follow.

[3:36:54] Voice 2: So let's go to the other version then.

[3:36:57] Voice 2: Sorry about that.

[3:36:58] Voice 2: Why didn't you just say that in the first instance?

[3:37:01] Voice 2: Thank you.

[3:37:05] Trustee Patrick: That's all right.

[3:37:07] Trustee Patrick: As long as we have agreement of what version we're looking through here,

[3:37:10] Trustee Patrick: then we can go.

[3:37:11] Trustee Patrick: So, all right.

[3:37:12] Trustee Patrick: Closing investigations, section six.

[3:37:26] Trustee Patrick: I'm good with it.

[3:37:31] Trustee Patrick: I'm seeing thumbs up, Trustee Boland.

[3:37:33] Trustee Patrick: I

[3:37:39] Trustee Elliott: have to say this is getting better and better.

[3:37:40] Trustee Elliott: It's such painful work, but it is a much improved policy to my view.

[3:37:50] Trustee Patrick: All right.

[3:37:51] Trustee Patrick: section then seven priority of investigation

[3:37:54] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Elliott

[3:38:06] Trustee Elliott: I wonder about the okay 7.1.3 limiting

[3:38:13] Trustee Elliott: it to adverse environmental impact

[3:38:16] Trustee Elliott: are there other impacts that should be considered

[3:38:20] Trustee Elliott: I think the Gabriela LTC specific policy

[3:38:26] Trustee Elliott: has something about cultural heritage

[3:38:30] Trustee Elliott: heritage um sensitive sites so are there other considerations other than environmental

[3:38:40] Trustee Elliott: that

[3:38:50] Trustee Patrick: makes sense because it could be like it could

[3:38:56] Trustee Elliott: be an archaeological

[3:38:57] Trustee Patrick: site that's been

[3:38:58] Trustee Patrick: impacted or could

[3:38:59] Trustee Elliott: be downstream development or you know somebody's building a steep slope area

[3:39:04] Trustee Elliott: and whatever what

[3:39:08] Voice 2: about just irreversible damage full stop like if it's something that could happen

[3:39:13] Voice 2: very quickly it doesn't really it could be any kind of irreversible damage if not prevented in

[3:39:21] Voice 2: a timely fashion would that make it simpler i was actually also thinking about the mudge island

[3:39:31] Voice 2: situation and the nuisance complaints um would that not be another i'm not sure where that would

[3:39:38] Voice 2: fit in the priority but should that not be addressed quickly if there are people who are

[3:39:46] Voice 2: distressed by them it's a bit hard but anyway the one you brought up trustee elliott perhaps just

[3:39:54] Voice 2: could result in irreversible damage for you know where there could be irreversible damage if not

[3:40:05] Voice 2: prevent it in a timely fashion. Anything

[3:40:11] Trustee Patrick: else? Adverse environmental or did you say just an

[3:40:24] Trustee Patrick: environmental or heritage?

[3:40:37] Trustee Elliott: There's an activity that is having an impact on the land or the water

[3:40:42] Trustee Elliott: that will um yeah i i don't know how to phrase it but i think we could expand it without just

[3:40:54] Trustee Elliott: saying anything that could adversely or have irreversible damage is to be prioritized um

[3:41:02] Trustee Elliott: i don't know well

[3:41:05] Trustee Patrick: the 7.3 is basically it's environmental impact only is all that's addressed

[3:41:10] Trustee Patrick: Where

[3:41:12] Trustee Elliott: impacts to the environment, cultural heritage, or development could result in irreversible damage.

[3:41:27] Trustee Elliott: So adding in cultural heritage and development.

[3:41:33] Trustee Patrick: I think Trustee Graham has a brilliant idea.

[3:41:36] Voice 9: Oh, thanks a lot.

[3:41:39] Voice 9: I was just going to say that what you're talking about, cultural heritage, potential bylaw infractions, is just the next level down, one from environmental.

[3:41:51] Voice 9: It's still a priority. It's just a lesser priority than an environmental damage.

[3:41:58] Voice 9: And I think the environment always trumps everything because we require a healthy environment to live.

[3:42:07] Voice 9: And as much as I love First Nations and I love the protection of cultural heritage, I don't think it's a higher priority than an environmental issue.

[3:42:16] Voice 9: That's just my, and it's still a priority because it's captured by 7.1.4.

[3:42:24] Trustee Elliott: But that, no, it's not.

[3:42:26] Trustee Elliott: Because if it's an ARC site, that's protected by provincial law.

[3:42:31] Trustee Elliott: So is that just covered by other bylaws?

[3:42:37] Voice 9: Yes, provincial ones.

[3:42:44] Trustee Elliott: Yeah.

[3:42:44] Trustee Elliott: Yeah. I don't know if I agree that environment is a higher priority necessarily.

[3:42:51] Trustee Elliott: I mean, there's also downstream effects to development that could be impacted.

[3:43:04] Trustee Elliott: And, you know, if there's an unsafe situation, people's lives are in danger.

[3:43:09] Trustee Elliott: You can't say that's a lesser priority than the environment.

[3:43:13] Trustee Patrick: Well, that's health and safety. That's already there.

[3:43:15] Trustee Patrick: that's

[3:43:16] Voice 2: the second one for me but do you not think that like by listing um to me the important part

[3:43:25] Voice 2: of 713 is if irreversible damage it can occur if it's not prevented or addressed in a timely

[3:43:35] Voice 2: fashion that's the key piece there that you know if you're if something is reported to you

[3:43:40] Voice 2: and if you hop to it immediately you can at least pause whatever is happening while everybody

[3:43:47] Voice 2: gathers and considers what to do next but that's the important element of this not which particular

[3:43:54] Voice 2: thing might be occurring it's the irreversible damage that you could prevent if you address

[3:44:00] Voice 2: it quickly that's the key in this instance in my opinion.

[3:44:09] Trustee Patrick: Director Cermak you've got an idea here

[3:44:13] Trustee Patrick: sorry i was

[3:44:14] Voice 10: i was realizing i probably should not wade into uh this discussion it's for you

[3:44:18] Voice 10: i i just would caution saying irreversible because you know everything can be reversed

[3:44:26] Voice 10: right engineers are happy to go and plant new you know trees and you know make new shorelines

[3:44:32] Voice 10: and look behind william or behind look behind warren you know in his image there with his

[3:44:37] Voice 10: stacked boulders and stuff like that um i i you know and it could be argued ah it's reversible

[3:44:43] Voice 10: right like i think that's really easy to just dismiss whereas adverse is a little more effective

[3:44:49] Voice 10: from an enforcement perspective but again i i kind of i'm waffling on entering the discussion

[3:44:54] Voice 10: it's it's yours to have happy to follow your direction i just from a staff perspective i

[3:44:59] Voice 10: would find irreversible challenging to defend whereas adverse is easy okay

[3:45:06] Trustee Elliott: so how about oh

[3:45:07] Trustee Elliott: Oh, sorry, my hand is not going up today.

[3:45:09] Trustee Elliott: That's all right.

[3:45:10] Trustee Patrick: Go ahead.

[3:45:11] Trustee Patrick: We're such a small group today.

[3:45:12] Trustee Patrick: Informality isn't affecting our jump-ins.

[3:45:16] Trustee Patrick: So whether

[3:45:17] Trustee Elliott: adverse impacts to the environment, land, cultural heritage, or development could

[3:45:29] Trustee Elliott: result in irreversible damage if not prevented in a timely fashion.

[3:45:33] Trustee Elliott: So just listing four things.

[3:45:36] Trustee Elliott: I do agree that adverse impacts to environment, cultural heritage, to the environment, land, cultural heritage, or development, comma, would result in irreversible damage if not prevented in a timely fashion.

[3:46:04] Trustee Elliott: Does

[3:46:07] Trustee Patrick: that make sense?

[3:46:10] Trustee Patrick: Adverse impacts to development.

[3:46:11] Trustee Patrick: Can you explain what you're meaning?

[3:46:14] Trustee Patrick: yeah

[3:46:14] Trustee Elliott: well um the only one i could think of is steep slopes um if somebody is cutting trees or

[3:46:24] Trustee Elliott: doing something and without having gotten the development permit in there and they're in a

[3:46:30] Trustee Elliott: steep slope area and um those trees are falling on a neighbor's property and it's you know the

[3:46:41] Trustee Elliott: The purpose of that development permit is to prevent damage to development, right?

[3:46:49] Trustee Elliott: And if somebody's breaching that, that's a reason to investigate.

[3:46:58] Trustee Patrick: Would that be then damage on infrastructure rather than development?

[3:47:02] Trustee Patrick: Because I'm trying to figure out what's being damaged.

[3:47:04] Trustee Patrick: The development is causing damage.

[3:47:08] Trustee Elliott: Well, there was a case on Gabriel.

[3:47:11] Trustee Elliott: I shouldn't be specific.

[3:47:15] Trustee Elliott: There's also, like, rock slides, and suddenly water was, you know, churning down into a neighborhood because there was, and so that should be investigated, at least.

[3:47:25] Trustee Elliott: There wasn't necessarily impacts to infrastructure, but the neighborhood down below was having an impact.

[3:47:34] Trustee Elliott: So I don't know.

[3:47:36] Trustee Elliott: Yeah, we could take out development.

[3:47:38] Trustee Elliott: We

[3:47:38] Trustee Patrick: could say infrastructure.

[3:47:39] Trustee Patrick: infrastructure i was thinking infrastructure would be you know by someone's carelessness it

[3:47:45] Trustee Patrick: affects a road or you know a house or a starts causing damage that's not health and safety but

[3:47:53] Trustee Patrick: it's hurting something trustee boland you've got ideas thoughts uh

[3:47:59] Voice 2: yeah i come back to trustee

[3:48:01] Voice 2: thing which is like this is and how to prioritize it's not everything we should do

[3:48:10] Voice 2: so if you start at the bottom which is other contraventions so the assumption is that everything

[3:48:17] Voice 2: above that is a contravention but we're just going to put them in a sort of order and you know to me

[3:48:25] Voice 2: therefore you know other contraventions covers everything and as you work your way back up

[3:48:30] Voice 2: you work through an order and to me the critical thing there is the speed at which the damage is

[3:48:39] Voice 2: occurring and above that self and safety and above that specific direction to be honest the

[3:48:45] Voice 2: specific direction could go further down in fact because it's not um but in in in order well maybe

[3:48:54] Voice 2: it could stay there but anyway i just feel like we're over egging the cake slightly and that it's

[3:49:00] Voice 2: it's about the it's about the the speed of the damage and the speed of the response

[3:49:06] Voice 2: but within the big envelope of a bi-local intervention.

[3:49:11] Voice 2: Anyway, that's it.

[3:49:13] Voice 2: I won't say any more.

[3:49:17] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, no, I generally agree, but I understand,

[3:49:20] Trustee Patrick: I think the cultural heritage one is an interesting missing.

[3:49:23] Trustee Patrick: That is something that we are more attuned to now

[3:49:26] Trustee Patrick: than we were when this policy was first created.

[3:49:31] Trustee Patrick: That I think it would be, you know,

[3:49:35] Trustee Patrick: we could always ask staff to look at how to better word that

[3:49:39] Trustee Patrick: and where it sits in the priorities so i see director a tractor arcana tajima i just wonder

[3:49:45] Voice 5: if uh if warren might have some insights based on his experience and dispatching bylaw officers and

[3:49:51] Voice 5: to high you know prioritizing um investigations there

[3:49:57] Trustee Patrick: you go now warren you're on the spot

[3:49:59] Trustee Patrick: somebody calls you and they notice their neighbors digging in the middle of a

[3:50:03] Trustee Patrick: midden?

[3:50:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Well, that would be covered by 713.

[3:50:10] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: I mean, it's an environmentally sensitive area along

[3:50:14] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the foreshore, which would become a priority. I think

[3:50:17] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: some of these issues would be addressed on a local level, as

[3:50:21] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: in 711, where the local trust committees are going to

[3:50:25] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: give violent enforcement staff their local policies and establish

[3:50:29] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the priority per island,

[3:50:33] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: or preferred local trust area.

[3:50:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: That would address some of these concerns about different,

[3:50:41] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: some of them are unique to specific islands

[3:50:47] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and you're not going to end up with a catch-all.

[3:50:50] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: I don't think that would apply to all local trust areas.

[3:50:59] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: I think the wording is clear now as to what we would prioritize.

[3:51:04] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Or you could add, you know, add a section where, you know, it's at the discretion of the manager and the director as to, you know, if something needs to be a higher priority.

[3:51:15] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And then you don't have to worry about the specifics.

[3:51:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Stefan and I can discuss something that, you know, may need to become an obvious priority investigation and then undertake the work based on those staff decisions.

[3:51:36] Trustee Patrick: Okay, interesting.

[3:51:37] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Boland.

[3:51:42] Trustee Patrick: Oh, nope.

[3:51:43] Trustee Patrick: changing your mind an

[3:51:46] Voice 2: orphaned hand

[3:51:47] Voice 2: sorry i

[3:51:50] Trustee Patrick: appreciate your answer but i think i think

[3:51:53] Trustee Patrick: the question is you know is there value in a value i know there's value um where and how

[3:51:59] Trustee Patrick: should we be explicit about cultural heritage and i think that would be my only question

[3:52:05] Trustee Patrick: And that, you know, shoreline isn't to me enough of a, you know, that would be caught through an environment as we all are comfortable with it.

[3:52:19] Trustee Patrick: But cultural heritage is different.

[3:52:22] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So, Chair, there are certain things that we can't actually investigate because it's beyond our jurisdiction.

[3:52:27] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: so we do have to be careful about trying to tell

[3:52:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: bylaw officers to investigate

[3:52:35] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: activities that we actually have no right to investigate

[3:52:39] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: so we should be careful about crossing that line

[3:52:44] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: there are certain things that once we become aware of it, we basically need to

[3:52:48] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: take a step back because there's no land use contravention, there's no development permit

[3:52:51] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: required and we need to refer it to the appropriate agency

[3:52:54] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: agency so we have to be careful this i guess scope creep where you've got staff going out

[3:53:01] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and going beyond what they're actually legally authorized to do okay

[3:53:11] Trustee Patrick: i understand that um

[3:53:15] Trustee Patrick: but we're the ones that are typically on the grass so i guess you're saying it would come as a

[3:53:21] Trustee Patrick: if someone were to call and say i think my neighbor's digging in the middle of a

[3:53:28] Trustee Patrick: of a midden i'm sorry to use that as a you know and on the shoreline um you would be able to

[3:53:37] Trustee Patrick: investigate that because it's a shoreline impact of somebody digging in proximity

[3:53:45] Trustee Patrick: but would you notify or or wait you know do an inspection and then notify the referred agency

[3:53:52] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: it depends on the what has been uh detailed in the complaint we might do it right away

[3:53:57] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: but yes we would go to see if there's any islands trust issues that can be investigated and then the

[3:54:04] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: next step is to yes refer to the heritage branch or to you know make the provincial report that

[3:54:13] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: you know some unlawful activity is occurring right because we're we we can't do anything

[3:54:22] Voice 4: other

[3:54:23] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: than refer it to that to that to the appropriate provincial agency to

[3:54:30] Trustee Patrick: me that's an

[3:54:30] Trustee Patrick: an action so that's a good thing

[3:54:31] Trustee Patrick: and

[3:54:33] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that and that's really standard operating procedure and

[3:54:35] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the complaints about the middens are actually uh they're commonplace unfortunately uh people

[3:54:42] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: regularly dig into middens and we get the complaints and so you know we do what we can

[3:54:47] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and then refer it to the uh heritage branch all

[3:54:51] Trustee Patrick: right trustees we've all been pondering here

[3:54:57] Trustee Patrick: I

[3:54:59] Trustee Elliott: would flag this for further discussion at Trust Council

[3:55:03] Trustee Elliott: I don't know quite what to say

[3:55:08] Trustee Elliott: except that I think this become

[3:55:11] Trustee Elliott: this should become a

[3:55:14] Trustee Elliott: so if an investigation into something that's a concern

[3:55:20] Trustee Elliott: that it's impacting cultural heritage in a site that may

[3:55:24] Trustee Elliott: not be identified as an archaeological site

[3:55:27] Trustee Elliott: I would hope, politically, that you would alert the local trust committee so that this could be folded into conversations with potentially affected First Nations bodies, as well as if there is a referral to the agency.

[3:55:48] Trustee Elliott: So perhaps this is bigger than a priority of investigation policy.

[3:55:52] Trustee Elliott: There needs to be policy development around discovery of complaints to do with cultural heritage.

[3:56:06] Trustee Elliott: And I think that's a larger discussion than we could potentially have here.

[3:56:11] Trustee Patrick: I agree. And an important one.

[3:56:14] Trustee Patrick: Warren, did you?

[3:56:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: so if we do so chair if we are doing work around anything that's an archaeological site and we see

[3:56:23] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that it's disturbed it's standard practice to notify the first nation the appropriate first

[3:56:27] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: nation that this is it already happens we we notify them to ensure that they're aware of

[3:56:34] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: what's going on as well as notifying heritage branch so i think the heritage branch does the

[3:56:39] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: same thing so it becomes a loop where everyone becomes connected and is aware that there's

[3:56:45] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: digging happening where possibly they should be no digging or disturbance

[3:56:50] Trustee Patrick: okay i'm comfortable

[3:56:53] Trustee Patrick: with what i'm hearing from you i think we're just trying to get something in the policy

[3:56:56] Trustee Patrick: and make sure we all have agreement and i think that's what to me this project is going forward

[3:57:01] Trustee Patrick: that we all clearly understand and i think i think we're just flagging this as it needs more

[3:57:06] Trustee Patrick: discussion we're not going to be able to work that out here um trustee boland is that related

[3:57:13] Trustee Patrick: on this yeah

[3:57:14] Voice 2: just just a quick one i mean we're talking about investigations and perhaps we should

[3:57:20] Voice 2: talk about a response including an investigation so a response is something different which could

[3:57:28] Voice 2: cover the fact that it's referred but i also wonder whether we shouldn't have a section and

[3:57:33] Voice 2: i'm not proposing to develop it now but which talks about what you've described warren which

[3:57:40] Voice 2: which is its standard practice that we inform the First Nations or we inform the province.

[3:57:47] Voice 2: So perhaps a section where it says, you know, in the event that it is not within our jurisdiction, here's what we do.

[3:57:57] Voice 2: Yeah, thanks.

[3:58:02] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Elliott.

[3:58:04] Trustee Elliott: Yeah, I agree.

[3:58:05] Trustee Elliott: So is there a separate section that's like referral to other agencies?

[3:58:08] Trustee Elliott: And we could ask DAF to explore some options for policy development around that triaging.

[3:58:18] Trustee Elliott: I understand you maybe don't need it.

[3:58:21] Trustee Elliott: You've got your practices, but this is a forward-facing manual.

[3:58:27] Trustee Elliott: We may need to engage with First Nations on this section in particular because they may have a process that they're saying,

[3:58:37] Trustee Elliott: actually we want it you know packaged in this way and inform these people right so i i think this

[3:58:45] Trustee Elliott: could be a good conversation piece um and um so where contraventions of of other like matters

[3:58:59] Trustee Elliott: that are not covered by our land use bylaw how is that um handled thanks uh

[3:59:08] Trustee Patrick: robert thanks uh so

[3:59:11] Voice 5: 3.2 on page 39 talks about complaints that do not fall within the jurisdiction of a local trust

[3:59:18] Voice 5: committee maybe refer it to another agency we could add first nations there as well definitely

[3:59:29] Trustee Patrick: um trustees i think we all probably agree that would be that's a i

[3:59:41] Trustee Elliott: think it's a separate policy

[3:59:42] Trustee Elliott: right after 3.2 then um to another so if the complaint involves um potential impacts to

[3:59:51] Trustee Elliott: cultural heritage um you know whether archaeological sites or no uh the first nation

[3:59:59] Trustee Elliott: information.

[4:00:00] Trustee Elliott: you know all the first nations with rights and title are in the consultative database

[4:00:06] Trustee Elliott: will be notified i is that possible to articulate it so 3.3 insert a different sub policy there

[4:00:16] Voice 5: yeah i knew 3.3 yep i'm

[4:00:22] Trustee Patrick: also thinking that um the table of comments that we're making i think i

[4:00:26] Trustee Patrick: think we need to do a general review consideration and discussion of you know integrating

[4:00:32] Trustee Patrick: you know the cultural heritage in the policy so that we're not just doing this ad hoc i think we

[4:00:39] Trustee Patrick: probably have some consultation to do here or engagement to make sure we get the right

[4:00:45] Trustee Patrick: um right level but yes so we're catching a new three an addition after 3.2 rob's probably

[4:01:09] Trustee Patrick: writing away in the background there he is and then rob that first one i guess we're not rewording

[4:01:19] Trustee Patrick: it the way we had it there it'll just be to um further discussion recommended on including

[4:01:30] Trustee Patrick: on addressing cultural heritage or something of that nature um yeah something like that okay

[4:01:50] Trustee Patrick: back to the policy here so anything else than on prioritization

[4:02:04] Trustee Patrick: now we're into the voluntary compliance and mediation trustee bullman has her hand up

[4:02:27] Trustee Patrick: Sorry, I was looking over at my other, I'm reading it on the other computer.

[4:02:31] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Boland.

[4:02:34] Voice 2: I'd just like to know a little bit more about, have we got a definition of mediation?

[4:02:40] Voice 2: I kind of know what it means, but I always felt, and not just for this discussion, but

[4:02:46] Voice 2: when I read this before, it's kind of like a stranded fragment there, you know, that

[4:02:53] Voice 2: that, in fact, afterwards, you know, 8.2 arguably describes it.

[4:02:59] Voice 2: But is there a standard reference for the principles and techniques employed in mediation, is my question.

[4:03:07] Voice 2: Thanks.

[4:03:17] Trustee Patrick: Someone want to try to answer that?

[4:03:19] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: I can provide some background, Chair.

[4:03:23] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So with the adoption of this policy, there was funding allocated for training at the Justice Institute of British Columbia

[4:03:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: for their mediation courses and negotiation courses.

[4:03:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So since the policy has been adopted,

[4:03:40] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: bio-officers have completed those courses,

[4:03:47] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: most of the courses, not the full certificate.

[4:03:49] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: I've done almost all the training

[4:03:51] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: except for getting the actual certificate.

[4:03:54] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And that's the knowledge that we're drawing on

[4:03:56] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: is that training from the JIBC.

[4:03:59] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: we don't have a separate uh handbook or manual or set of policies regarding the mediation uh

[4:04:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: we're following the training from the jibc um and it's this process has been had had limited

[4:04:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: effect and relevance for the work that we're doing um because in the end the great majority

[4:04:25] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: or any complainants do not wish to get involved with mediation with the person that they're

[4:04:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: complaining against so when we start talking about mediation with both parties uh the most

[4:04:41] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: a common thing that will happen not at all circumstances but a common thing that will

[4:04:45] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: happen is that the two parties will decide they don't need island's trust for them to get together

[4:04:50] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: other to talk the neighbors just decide to talk on their own so we've taken the training we have

[4:04:57] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: this policy but we've never gotten through to the point of doing actual mediation sessions

[4:05:02] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: with any uh respondent or complainant uh just because of the fact that the complainants don't

[4:05:10] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: generally want to meet with uh the person that they're complaining against because they're

[4:05:15] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: concerned about conflict um so we have a policy in place that um it's there but it's not really

[4:05:27] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: part of our day-to-day work uh for those reasons so

[4:05:33] Voice 2: should is a bit strong in that circumstance

[4:05:36] Voice 2: then could we say may be conducted and um i'm just struggling really to know how to

[4:05:47] Voice 2: to address this given that you're saying that it never happens maybe it's because you're so good

[4:05:54] Voice 2: at mediation that it's all done in the conversation where you suggest it um but I just struggle to

[4:06:04] Voice 2: I think we should say maybe conduct it rather than should because to me that reads like

[4:06:10] Voice 2: and this is a kind of mandatory way to conduct it rather than that it's something optional and that

[4:06:19] Voice 2: in case in fact people don't actually choose that option uh

[4:06:32] Trustee Patrick: trustee graham yeah

[4:06:35] Voice 9: i'm just looking at

[4:06:36] Voice 9: it um so the it's the efforts to gain compliance should be conducted so you're not actually

[4:06:43] Voice 9: telling the complainant and the respondent that they should. It's the bylaw officers

[4:06:50] Voice 9: should gain compliance. To gain compliance, they should be conducted. And then the second part,

[4:06:56] Voice 9: it says persons alleged may be invited. So, you know, the very, the vagarity of those two

[4:07:03] Voice 9: statements covers, I think, in my mind, anyway, the concerns that you brought up.

[4:07:09] Voice 9: okay

[4:07:13] Voice 2: i i take your point i misunderstood in a way um but again i think it would be helpful

[4:07:19] Voice 2: somewhere or other would it be helpful okay to reference the mediation as described by

[4:07:27] Voice 2: or mediation as cancelled by but i am i'm open to rejection of that suggestion

[4:07:39] Voice 2: I

[4:07:43] Trustee Patrick: know this is an area of my personal it's so many cases you see that neighbors have you know

[4:07:49] Trustee Patrick: are really at war really horrible situations that people get themselves in and it's it is

[4:07:56] Trustee Patrick: really one of the saddest things to see so we think this is okay trustee grams yeah I mean

[4:08:17] Voice 9: despite the fact that it's not to date been used I think I think it's it's really good to have this

[4:08:23] Voice 9: policy. Because at least it gives the respondent and the complainant comfort to know that that is

[4:08:33] Voice 9: an option, whether they choose to use it or not. Anyway, I think the ombudsperson would probably

[4:08:38] Voice 9: agree, it's good to have this policy, even though in the practical world, it hardly ever gets a

[4:08:44] Voice 9: chance to use because of the hate that's involved.

[4:08:49] Trustee Patrick: I do note in my research, when I was looking at

[4:08:52] Trustee Patrick: some of the other municipalities they use the word they just avoid don't get involved in civil

[4:08:57] Trustee Patrick: disputes you know that it's like hard stop you know we're not going to get involved in

[4:09:04] Trustee Patrick: a dispute between neighbors even though they're going to try to bring us into it

[4:09:13] Trustee Patrick: but trusty elliot

[4:09:14] Trustee Elliott: yeah and so just on that point though don't isn't that covered in the vexatious

[4:09:19] Trustee Elliott: complaints sort

[4:09:22] Trustee Patrick: of section it's not actually it just means it's we're not going to consider

[4:09:24] Trustee Patrick: the complaint if you've got two neighbors that are unhappy with each other.

[4:09:32] Trustee Elliott: Okay. So how is

[4:09:34] Trustee Elliott: that deprioritized?

[4:09:35] Trustee Patrick: That's not deprioritized. No, no. It's just mediation.

[4:09:38] Trustee Patrick: Are we mediating someone's civil dispute is my question.

[4:09:44] Trustee Elliott: I see.

[4:09:45] Trustee Patrick: As

[4:09:46] Trustee Elliott: a policy,

[4:09:48] Trustee Patrick: should we get ourselves into a civil dispute between neighbors?

[4:09:52] Trustee Elliott: Gotcha.

[4:09:52] Trustee Elliott: I

[4:09:52] Trustee Patrick: guess if there's a real bona fide bylaw compliance issue

[4:09:57] Trustee Patrick: at the root of the issue, then we're in it, I suppose.

[4:10:01] Trustee Patrick: And I guess, Warren, you probably have.

[4:10:04] Trustee Patrick: Don't give us the specifics, but I'm sure there are cases.

[4:10:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: No, Chair, you're correct.

[4:10:08] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: We tell people we can't get involved in their civil disputes,

[4:10:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: but if it is, okay, here's a bylaw contravention,

[4:10:15] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: we've confirmed that, then we are trying to get the parties

[4:10:20] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: to work it out, work out whatever personal issues they have

[4:10:24] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that will help us towards compliance.

[4:10:28] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: But we are very careful about not getting into what is strictly

[4:10:32] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: a civil matter between two parties.

[4:10:35] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: The classic one are fence line disputes, where you put your fence

[4:10:39] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that's entirely a civil matter between the two parties.

[4:10:42] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Start putting other structures in there, then it's something that

[4:10:46] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: But, you know, we can try to mediate.

[4:10:50] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Even if they don't, I guess some of that does happen.

[4:10:54] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: We're not putting people in the same room,

[4:10:56] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: but there's a back and forth that happens

[4:10:58] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: as we communicate with both parties.

[4:11:00] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: We sort of make some progress.

[4:11:03] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And I think the most, as far as Section 8 here,

[4:11:06] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: 8.2 is the most valuable part for the bylaw officers.

[4:11:09] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Here's guidelines on how to do your work.

[4:11:13] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: It's good reminders of how to go through

[4:11:15] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: through the whole process of investigation and even enforcement as you're

[4:11:19] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: trying to gain compliance is just go through all these steps.

[4:11:23] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So you've got all the right information and you're negotiating with people

[4:11:28] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and you're trying to reach solutions and you're not just focusing on

[4:11:32] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: enforcement. I know there's been discussions about, you know,

[4:11:35] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the policies here, but what's our approach?

[4:11:38] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: 8.2 is a big part of the approach because we're collecting information.

[4:11:44] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: We're being curious, confirming facts, and looking at the different options for compliance and trying to reach that solution.

[4:12:05] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, I'm just wondering if, did we put that somewhere?

[4:12:10] Trustee Patrick: So the other example, if they say, right, you know, it says complaints resulting from disputes between individuals may not be acted upon.

[4:12:19] Trustee Patrick: You know, have we, are we clear that, you know, if we...

[4:12:28] Trustee Patrick: So,

[4:12:28] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Chair, if there's no bylaw contravention for a land use bylaw or there's no development permit guideline contravention for an OCP, then it's a private matter and we're out of it and we leave

[4:12:45] Trustee Patrick: it to the two parties.

[4:12:45] Trustee Patrick: I understand we know that, but to me, like I said, this policy also serves as communications to the public.

[4:12:51] Trustee Patrick: i think once

[4:12:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: you enter the vexatious complainant uh sections for these policies i think that will

[4:13:03] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: become clear or staff can make it clear to both parties that okay if this has become a personal

[4:13:10] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: dispute or vexatious you know we're not proceeding any further i don't believe section 8

[4:13:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: um obliges us to continue with any type of mediation if it's a private dispute

[4:13:24] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: right

[4:13:26] Trustee Patrick: okay i agree i'm just saying we might want to say that is all all i'm from a public

[4:13:33] Trustee Patrick: perspective perspective but trustee boland uh

[4:13:39] Voice 2: yeah i'm back on the on this whole this whole

[4:13:44] Voice 2: thing here i think what confused me in the beginning and as you know it's still bothering

[4:13:51] Voice 2: me is the separation of like we'll use mediation techniques and we'll also do the following like

[4:13:59] Voice 2: just a question to warren so 8.2 what's described there is the guts of mediation i assume so you

[4:14:10] Voice 2: could almost combine those two and say efforts will employ the principles employed in mediation

[4:14:17] Voice 2: and so therefore persons alleged to have committed will blah blah the separation of the two kind of

[4:14:24] Voice 2: causes a i kind of trip over it in my head of exactly my understanding of what this is describing

[4:14:31] Voice 2: whereas the two really belong together i offer that and

[4:14:39] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: chair i would agree with that you could

[4:14:41] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: have it all as one section it doesn't need to be divided trustees

[4:14:49] Voice 11: so

[4:14:52] Voice 2: perhaps we could ask

[4:14:53] Voice 2: staff and including warren to rephrase that to make it a bit more smooth and integrated

[4:15:02] Voice 2: so you know mediation will be used and these are the steps that will by and large be followed

[4:15:12] Voice 2: thanks to me there it looks like an alternative you know mediation didn't work so therefore we're

[4:15:17] Voice 2: going to do this other thing thanks all

[4:15:22] Trustee Patrick: right so robert just uh we're not going to wordsmith it

[4:15:25] Trustee Patrick: but combine eight one and eight two into one i think is what i'm hearing anything else on this

[4:15:36] Trustee Patrick: section all right we're just smoking this time so nine reviewing the conduct by a lot of compliance

[4:15:54] Trustee Patrick: enforcement officers uh trustee bowman sorry yeah

[4:16:24] Voice 2: how does this uh align with the general

[4:16:28] Voice 2: um complaints policy would be my question this is fine but does it nest within that

[4:16:36] Voice 2: or do you get to the end of this

[4:16:38] Voice 2: and jump to that other process?

[4:16:44] Voice 5: Sure.

[4:16:45] Voice 5: Go ahead, sorry.

[4:16:46] Voice 5: My general complaints policy,

[4:16:48] Voice 5: Trustee Bollinger referring to

[4:16:50] Voice 5: like the administrative fairness complaints.

[4:16:53] Voice 5: Yeah, so 9-12

[4:16:57] Voice 5: sort of would allow the complainant

[4:17:00] Voice 5: to transition into a more general

[4:17:02] Voice 5: administrative fairness complaint

[4:17:04] Voice 5: if they're not satisfied with this process.

[4:17:09] Voice 5: That's when it would go to the CAO.

[4:17:17] Voice 2: yeah i'm just surprised it's like it's a very detailed um and long process and how much of it

[4:17:29] Voice 2: is repeated i suppose would be my question um does it need to be i'd have to read both of them

[4:17:40] Voice 2: which i haven't done and compare and i'm assuming you have so let me stop commenting

[4:17:46] Trustee Patrick: well i guess i'd have a nine four um there's a spelling i mean there's just a grammatical

[4:17:53] Trustee Patrick: thing i think it will be acknowledged within 10 business days yeah um

[4:17:58] Trustee Patrick: if someone

[4:18:01] Trustee Patrick: didn't use this section and complained on day 12 and went the administrative fairness would

[4:18:09] Trustee Patrick: we say their clock ran out is that are they separate processes so

[4:18:19] Voice 5: someone complained after

[4:18:20] Voice 5: So it's this 9-4 is that we have to respond or should respond within 10 days.

[4:18:26] Voice 5: The person can, I don't know if there's a statute of limitations we'd want to put in, but, you know, Warren was nasty to me 10 years ago or something.

[4:18:36] Voice 5: All

[4:18:38] Trustee Patrick: right, that's just our response time.

[4:18:40] Voice 5: That's our response time, yeah.

[4:19:04] Voice 11: So I think.

[4:19:06] Trustee Elliott: No, no, please go.

[4:19:07] Trustee Elliott: I was just going to say, you know, I think this section is necessary.

[4:19:11] Trustee Elliott: This is new.

[4:19:12] Trustee Elliott: um there might be a little information tree potentially um because we've got process up top

[4:19:23] Trustee Elliott: one one to four um I think like I guess I think there needs to be a bit more of an information

[4:19:37] Trustee Elliott: tree it's just like one listing after another but I think in general I'm satisfied um yeah

[4:19:48] Trustee Elliott: Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like everything could be nested a little bit more, but

[4:19:55] Trustee Elliott: yeah. Go ahead, Robert.

[4:19:57] Voice 5: I was just going to suggest that that would maybe something better

[4:19:59] Voice 5: for the manual to sort of have a visual kind of presentation of this process.

[4:20:10] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, that'd be

[4:20:11] Trustee Patrick: great. Go ahead, Director Cermak.

[4:20:21] Voice 10: Thank you, Chair. I assume you can hear me. I took my

[4:20:23] Voice 10: headphones on but my microphone is on the um i just want to you know sort of draw attention to

[4:20:28] Voice 10: this area and in that by including that here in this policy um we proposed then not to really

[4:20:35] Voice 10: amend policy 712 and that was the original direction and the reason is just to put it all

[4:20:43] Voice 10: together and made most sense this way and we are really running into issues about amending the

[4:20:49] Voice 10: the other policy became complicated, I guess, and messy.

[4:20:54] Voice 10: This provides a nice nesting of kind of a core issue

[4:20:58] Voice 10: that Trust Council has been talking about,

[4:21:01] Voice 10: and it keeps the other process clear and simple as well.

[4:21:05] Voice 10: So I just wanted to bring your attention to that

[4:21:08] Voice 10: because that means we won't be following up with amendments

[4:21:10] Voice 10: or any recommended changes to Policy 712.

[4:21:18] Voice 2: So a little bit of a detail, but in 9.4,

[4:21:24] Voice 2: Sorry, 9.6, you talk about being guided by principles of administrative fairness, and should you reference, therefore, policy 7.1.1, just for absolute, like, see that this is nested within the other two policies?

[4:21:47] Voice 2: Just be really explicit about that.

[4:21:53] Voice 10: through the chair I mean we can make that if you like but just point out that the attachments and

[4:21:57] Voice 10: all that if you read the policy as a whole it seems pretty clear to staff but if you'd like

[4:22:02] Voice 10: to make that change it doesn't take away from it just I don't think it's necessary but that's my

[4:22:07] Voice 10: humble opinion I

[4:22:11] Voice 2: think I would like it because it connects the whole thing together and it you know

[4:22:18] Voice 2: know at the bottom 9.12 goes back to those policies again and I think in a way you're saying

[4:22:26] Voice 2: the process and the principles are the same and when you dispute it you go back to a higher level

[4:22:36] Voice 2: but you go through the same the same principles and process will guide the next review which I

[4:22:45] Voice 2: think is quite important otherwise this might be a sense that you're going to jump into something

[4:22:51] Voice 2: entirely different that will give you a different answer so what i propose is that um i can't find

[4:23:03] Voice 2: it now again 9.6 assessment of complaints would be guided by principles of administrative fairness

[4:23:14] Voice 2: according to policy administration fairness principles in trust council policy 7.1.1

[4:23:26] Voice 2: is that okay has that been captured perfect thanks thank

[4:23:54] Trustee Patrick: you the the only thing that's sort

[4:23:58] Trustee Patrick: of missing i understand why it's here and so forth but there's a there's sort of a compassion

[4:24:08] Trustee Patrick: passion and understanding and confidence piece that, I mean,

[4:24:12] Trustee Patrick: you kind of have to work through it and it's there,

[4:24:15] Trustee Patrick: but I think it should be kind of earlier up. I mean,

[4:24:20] Trustee Patrick: if someone feels they've been wronged, it's just that

[4:24:27] Trustee Patrick: there's a lot of words here is all, it's just,

[4:24:29] Trustee Patrick: I think our sensitivity to it, I think our expectations are, you know,

[4:24:40] Trustee Patrick: I don't know, maybe I'm the only one reading it that way.

[4:24:44] Trustee Patrick: others see it this way or not so there's a lot of words here but it's the i

[4:24:49] Trustee Elliott: i kind of agree with

[4:24:50] Trustee Elliott: you that's what i was trying to say sort of jump in with the information tree there's there's there

[4:24:57] Trustee Elliott: should be a section on um here's a complaint here's what characterizes a complaint then

[4:25:04] Trustee Elliott: here's a section on the process um and then because there's there's a bit of a bouncing

[4:25:14] Trustee Elliott: bouncing back and forth between a complainant and what staff will do with that information.

[4:25:19] Trustee Elliott: I think that's what I've been struggling with. It just seems messy, but I should have rewritten

[4:25:28] Trustee Elliott: it and presented something different.

[4:25:35] Trustee Elliott: Well, I think, I

[4:25:41] Trustee Patrick: don't know, is staff following us or?

[4:25:47] Trustee Patrick: I

[4:25:51] Trustee Elliott: think it does the job. It's just a lot of text you write.

[4:25:55] Trustee Patrick: Yeah. Director Cermak?

[4:25:57] Voice 10: Thank you. I think RPM Kojima had the right idea. And if you look at page 74 of your agenda package, which is the public facing document that you've asked to be, you know, sort of reader friendly, that strikes me like we can tie up the policy if you wish, fine.

[4:26:14] Voice 10: fine. But in terms of creating the decision tree, making it easier for the readability as you've

[4:26:19] Voice 10: asked to create a readability document, I think it makes a lot of sense to make that request

[4:26:24] Voice 10: into your document when I'm looking specifically at page 74 of your agenda package, which has

[4:26:31] Voice 10: reviewing the conduct of bylaw compliance enforcement officers. I think we could plug

[4:26:36] Voice 10: something in there. I think we could all reach, maybe we make the amendment there and then we

[4:26:41] Voice 10: we report back at a future time. And maybe if we make it clear there, maybe we could reverse

[4:26:46] Voice 10: engineer it if it helps. I just think that RPM Kojima had the right idea of where to put that

[4:26:52] Voice 10: decision tree. Does that help, Trustee Elliott?

[4:26:59] Trustee Patrick: I think so. But again, like I said, the ombudsman

[4:27:02] Trustee Patrick: said our policy should be clear too. That's kind of the lens I'm looking at as we go through here.

[4:27:08] Trustee Patrick: And I think it's all here. I'm just trying to put myself in the shoes of someone who

[4:27:15] Trustee Patrick: could be complaining for some reason.

[4:27:19] Trustee Patrick: It can be very personal and upsetting.

[4:27:24] Trustee Patrick: Not everyone intends to have a complaint against them.

[4:27:28] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Boland?

[4:27:31] Voice 2: I'm just going through the guiding principles at the top.

[4:27:34] Voice 2: And they're all pretty good,

[4:27:38] Voice 2: but there's nothing that explicitly says,

[4:27:41] Voice 2: you know we will take any complaints about administration very seriously and address them

[4:27:50] Voice 2: blah blah blah you know this there's a lot of stuff in there about you know providing clear

[4:27:55] Voice 2: information and prioritizing engagement but i just wonder if something in there couldn't

[4:28:02] Voice 2: explicitly speak to and taking complaints about administration administration if that's the word

[4:28:11] Voice 2: um very seriously and addressing it in the process in the like that in the procedures

[4:28:17] Voice 2: that is actually addressed i don't see it explicitly there but i'm happy to have somebody

[4:28:23] Voice 2: pointed out number eight

[4:28:30] Voice 2: regular review and maintain oversights yeah but it doesn't really

[4:28:37] Voice 2: there's nothing in there that refers to an individual person making a complaint and being

[4:28:43] Voice 2: heard and i don't know where it would fit exactly but perhaps that would answer some of our

[4:28:50] Voice 2: concerns under um engagement and inclusivity or perhaps it might fit there you know to um respond

[4:29:19] Voice 2: um quickly to any uh suggestion because there you talk about collaboration with island communities

[4:29:27] Voice 2: to ensure practices reflect local values blah blah in there you could say and um you know with

[4:29:35] Voice 2: that in mind we will address and take very seriously any complaints about uh behavior or

[4:29:43] Voice 2: administration thanks i

[4:29:54] Trustee Elliott: think it belongs in eighth chair just just like director sir mac said um

[4:30:00] Trustee Elliott: The oversight to uphold public confidence, comma, and be responsive to, not critique,

[4:30:15] Trustee Elliott: but be responsive to, what's the word, period.

[4:30:26] Trustee Elliott: You know, encouraging local trust committees to update and align bylaws is separate, but

[4:30:31] Trustee Elliott: But this maintaining oversight to uphold public confidence, I think, is the piece that is about public accountability.

[4:30:41] Trustee Elliott: And maybe that just needs to be amplified a bit.

[4:30:49] Voice 2: Yeah, I would suggest that staff could choose.

[4:30:53] Voice 2: I think we're on the same page, Toby.

[4:30:58] Voice 2: So maybe staff could choose where to insert something specific to the response to complaints.

[4:31:16] Trustee Patrick: Director Cermak.

[4:31:19] Trustee Patrick: Perhaps,

[4:31:21] Voice 10: you know, if we're in the guiding principles section again, you know, administrative fairness principles is the policy you're referring to. Perhaps we just have guiding principles, number 10, are administrative fairness principles.

[4:31:38] Voice 10: And we could, you know, get verbiages, if you wish, from, you know, what that is from the respective policies, but that might be just a nice way to put a bow on it is what I'm hearing.

[4:31:48] Voice 10: is it? I

[4:31:54] Voice 2: like that idea, just to reference that explicitly. And it means that where it just puts

[4:32:00] Voice 2: a kind of end note, we do recognize that administrative principles are needed, and

[4:32:07] Voice 2: will underpin all of this. Yeah. Thanks.

[4:32:12] Trustee Patrick: Well, yeah, there's something like so there's it's the

[4:32:14] Trustee Patrick: human thing. That's that's why I said the words are hard here. I know there's a lot of it can be

[4:32:18] Trustee Patrick: be a lot of emotions um um but you know i i want to believe the vast majority of people who either

[4:32:26] Trustee Patrick: find themselves on the receiving end or felt compelled to complain about something you know

[4:32:31] Trustee Patrick: they're they're they're upset they're they're uh uh they're really truly concerned about something

[4:32:40] Trustee Patrick: we need to match that concern with you know we we care so just trying not to sound so bureaucratic

[4:32:52] Trustee Patrick: i think

[4:32:58] Voice 2: we're heading towards we need a plain language version of the policy

[4:33:01] Voice 2: which i think is possible but anyway yeah well

[4:33:05] Trustee Patrick: that's what the ombudsman said it should be clear

[4:33:10] Voice 2: maybe we could put an introductory paragraph above guiding principles

[4:33:14] Voice 2: or underneath purpose add something to purpose to put a human element into it but i'm floundering

[4:33:27] Trustee Patrick: yeah we're tired at this point but um we don't have any specific suggestions i think we're losing

[4:33:37] Trustee Patrick: i think now i was gonna say nope yep trustee graham's looking a little uh

[4:33:43] Trustee Patrick: a little tired i think we're all getting a little weary at this hour

[4:33:49] Trustee Patrick: apologize staff that's why we should always do the important stuff first while we have energy

[4:33:53] Trustee Patrick: Energy. Worn out. Are we being heard as sort of our concerns? We're not being able to put our fingers on what we're trying to say, but is it landing or is it just being like, oh gosh, I don't know what they're talking about. It's okay for you to be frank with us so that we can be clear.

[4:34:14] Voice 5: Yeah, I think we've got enough of my major. I think we've got some direction and that. Again, I'll go back to, you know, this is a policy. I mean, it's not a bylaw. It's not an enactment, but it should be written in a more technical language than the manual. And the manual, which you'll get to next, maybe not today, is where a lot of that more really plain language should reside.

[4:34:42] Voice 5: All

[4:34:46] Trustee Patrick: right. That's the mating of it. And I'll remind, I do know, I know I ran into an individual that I've been involved in, you know, I truly believe was quite innocent in this whole thing.

[4:34:59] Trustee Patrick: I think we need to have, before we send this back, get some real life review, somebody who's been through the process and a few people's impression. Did we make this clear? Did it work? Because I would assume, I would hope none of us have had been on the receiving end of a complaint.

[4:35:21] Trustee Patrick: um and i think we don't have that benefit of what was the experience did this does this sort of

[4:35:27] Trustee Patrick: clean things up so i really feel it would be worth talking to somebody i know i will be sending a

[4:35:35] Trustee Patrick: draft to that individual when we have one close to being finished to get their reaction okay

[4:35:45] Trustee Patrick: so if we're here

[4:35:47] Voice 11: just before you move on yep

[4:35:49] Trustee Elliott: um yeah i there was some comments in september

[4:35:53] Trustee Elliott: at Trust Council. There was a few representatives from Mudge and they came up to me right away and

[4:35:58] Trustee Elliott: they're like, why has there not been public consultation on this? And I said, well, this is

[4:36:03] Trustee Elliott: going through the process, taking the ombudsperson's office recommendations and

[4:36:10] Trustee Elliott: working it through our committee, but there will be hopefully opportunity. And I don't know if a

[4:36:15] Trustee Elliott: broad public consultation is necessary, or is this something that's like a focus group

[4:36:21] Trustee Elliott: could take a look at it

[4:36:25] Trustee Elliott: or we send it out with a survey.

[4:36:28] Trustee Elliott: But I think we need to look at public engagement

[4:36:30] Trustee Elliott: on this and getting some input at some point.

[4:36:33] Trustee Elliott: I'm not sure what point in the process.

[4:36:35] Trustee Elliott: Thank you.

[4:36:36] Trustee Patrick: Oh, I agree.

[4:36:37] Trustee Patrick: And I think a focus group

[4:36:38] Trustee Patrick: would be the most beneficial tool

[4:36:40] Trustee Patrick: to really get focused answers back.

[4:36:44] Trustee Patrick: Director Cermak, you're muted.

[4:36:54] Voice 10: If you would like to do that,

[4:36:55] Voice 10: you would have to request Trust Council

[4:36:57] Voice 10: to amend the project charter which is for your convenience on page 93 of the agenda package

[4:37:03] Voice 10: all

[4:37:09] Trustee Patrick: right we'll think about that for a moment here but um must we want to jump to that how

[4:37:12] Trustee Patrick: are we doing we've only got 20 minutes are we fading are we going to be able to keep going

[4:37:17] Trustee Patrick: i'm looking to who's left always keep going okay david's and he's just gonna muscle through this

[4:37:28] Trustee Patrick: um

[4:37:29] Voice 9: i will be leaving at three though i

[4:37:31] Trustee Patrick: think we all are um right

[4:37:41] Trustee Elliott: so out of scope amendment

[4:37:42] Trustee Elliott: Or public consultation. Yeah. And referral to LTCs. Okay. So

[4:37:50] Trustee Elliott: would it have to go through legal review first? No, we'd want to get public consultation first. And then what if they propose a bunch of different changes and it's crazy and we never get it done?

[4:38:04] Trustee Patrick: No, I mean, that's why I think a focus group would, a really strategic focus group, because, I mean, it is about getting the readability and tone and, you know, and hearing their perspective. Maybe we should have done that earlier. But anyway, Trustee Graham.

[4:38:24] Voice 9: This is a good conversation, but why don't we deal with it at Trust Council once we've presented this document for Trust Council's approval?

[4:38:34] Voice 9: One of us, perhaps chair of the RPC, could say it was a discussion at our table that we have this beta tested by a select group.

[4:38:43] Voice 9: And you just open it up.

[4:38:45] Voice 9: That's just my suggestion.

[4:38:48] Trustee Elliott: I agree.

[4:38:49] Trustee Elliott: I agree. I'd like to get this policy, draft policy done for Trust Council to look at. Is that possible today? Are we there?

[4:38:58] Trustee Patrick: I would still look at the policy and the manual together. I think giving them piecemeal material is probably not helpful.

[4:39:10] Trustee Elliott: Well, they've already seen the draft manual. So going back to our conversation last committee, I advocated strongly to work through the policy first and then the manual, which has to reflect that.

[4:39:22] Trustee Elliott: so I I don't want to wait too much longer I I think this draft is pretty good um

[4:39:36] Trustee Patrick: all right well then let's get back to the draft and then we can talk about the public piece then

[4:39:43] Trustee Patrick: we're we're gonna

[4:39:45] Trustee Patrick: because we're gonna

[4:39:45] Trustee Elliott: be stuck on this forever I'm just like this project has to end

[4:39:48] Trustee Elliott: at some point don't

[4:39:53] Voice 2: disagree we're not far from the end of this document so let's okay so 10 let's

[4:39:57] Voice 2: go we're into 10 then looks

[4:40:13] Voice 11: good to me yeah so 11 i

[4:40:33] Trustee Patrick: actually find i mean to me 10 is in a funny

[4:40:37] Trustee Patrick: place is that but maybe it's all right there it's like you're kind of progressing through the

[4:40:46] Trustee Patrick: options and all of a sudden you're talking about what ltcs could do to have bylaw enforcement

[4:40:51] Trustee Patrick: notices but i

[4:40:59] Voice 2: suppose what i'm missing from this is what you've got if you don't choose this

[4:41:07] Voice 2: like it it sort of says may wish to start wishing to establish but it's kind of in addition or as

[4:41:17] Voice 2: an alternative to something which um is kind of a default but not described does that make sense

[4:41:31] Trustee Patrick: maybe a 10.1 maybe 10.1 should be what the heck is a bylaw enforcement notices and dispute

[4:41:38] Trustee Patrick: Yeah. If you wish to have one, this is what you need to do. So, Trustee Graham?

[4:41:44] Voice 9: Well, I mean, it just follows, if the local trust committee doesn't establish, then you go to number 11, which is legal action. So you, you know, it's a progressive system.

[4:41:57] Trustee Patrick: Okay. Yes. But would a description of what one is be helpful here? Robert?

[4:42:06] Trustee Patrick: chair

[4:42:06] Voice 5: again the manual goes into a lot of description on the bylaw enforcement notification

[4:42:11] Voice 5: system so

[4:42:13] Voice 2: the word to establish would it be to use or to because like establish to me to use is

[4:42:24] Voice 2: like this is something that is a tool that you could use in addition to legal action and i want

[4:42:33] Voice 2: And I found it really hard to get my head around what this was.

[4:42:37] Voice 2: Now, admittedly, Sardinia doesn't have one, which doesn't help in my understanding.

[4:42:42] Voice 2: But it took me quite a while to figure out that there was this thing, which was a different process and a tool that certain islands opted into.

[4:42:52] Voice 2: And I don't think that comes across here.

[4:42:55] Voice 2: So I think the description of it is perfectly good.

[4:42:58] Voice 2: but how it fits in and how it's an optional thing offered by the province i think some

[4:43:06] Voice 2: little explanation would be would be helpful thanks i

[4:43:09] Trustee Elliott: don't agree this is our policy the

[4:43:13] Trustee Elliott: bylaw no enforcement notice and dispute adjudication system is explained in other areas

[4:43:19] Trustee Elliott: and in the in the plain language manual i i just i think we're trying to do too much

[4:43:25] Trustee Elliott: much honestly it's okay it is what it is you know it explains what the bylaw enforcement notice does

[4:43:35] Trustee Elliott: not what the whole system is that would be a separate explainer okay

[4:43:42] Voice 2: i take that challenge

[4:43:43] Voice 2: that's fine all right then 11 i

[4:44:06] Trustee Elliott: would say legal review is going to catch anything that's not

[4:44:10] Trustee Elliott: appropriate here this is beyond my pay grade as a trustee to weigh in on it's clear to me

[4:44:16] Trustee Elliott: all

[4:44:36] Trustee Patrick: right everybody so then 12 i'll raise a question here i'm i'm still confused as to

[4:44:53] Trustee Patrick: we've got this policy we have our land use regulations which have enforcement and then

[4:45:02] Trustee Patrick: we have our enforcement policies and i still i find it so many layers of policies on policies

[4:45:10] Trustee Patrick: for enforcement.

[4:45:11] Trustee Patrick: I know this was new.

[4:45:20] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So Chair, if I may,

[4:45:21] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the local trust committees have always had

[4:45:23] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: their own separate policies.

[4:45:25] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Although for most of the history of the Islands Trust,

[4:45:27] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: it's been done through standing resolution.

[4:45:30] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So that is how local trust committees

[4:45:32] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: have prioritized enforcement or deferred enforcement

[4:45:37] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: or said there would be proactive enforcement,

[4:45:39] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: for example, by short-term vacation rentals.

[4:45:42] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So the separation between these two policies

[4:45:44] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: is that the local trust committee is the enforcement authority.

[4:45:48] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Trust council is the funding authority

[4:45:51] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and can provide the overall guiding principles for bylaw enforcement.

[4:45:56] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: But it's each local trust committee that actually must designate

[4:46:01] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: how the bylaw is going to be enforced.

[4:46:04] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: It can't be done by trust council.

[4:46:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And so in putting into a compliance and enforcement policy

[4:46:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: policy that i put forward for the individual local trust committees was just in recognition

[4:46:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: of that and trying to find a much more streamlined and comprehensive way for the local trust

[4:46:26] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: committees to direct how they wanted enforcement in their local trust areas by bylaw officers

[4:46:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: but

[4:46:36] Trustee Patrick: does the land use bylaw that's where entry and other things are there too so i'm just wondering

[4:46:41] Trustee Patrick: then we don't talk about that in this policy so

[4:46:44] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: there's the law the land use bylaws are going to

[4:46:47] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: set out what the law is what the legal authority to do anything is and what is a contravention

[4:46:53] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and not contravention then the policy document for the local trust committee is your discretionary

[4:46:58] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: document on enforcement uh you know you establish by law well it's actually just established by

[4:47:05] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: province whether or not a bylaws can enter property with notice or without notice

[4:47:10] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: but then and the ltc's put into the land use bylaw here's the regulation that we want and

[4:47:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: different ltc's have either said okay we want notice or we don't want notice or like the skidi

[4:47:23] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: there's not going to be any entry to property until there's two complaints

[4:47:28] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: they've gotten that specific and then through the discretionary policies you can also direct staff

[4:47:35] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: direct their actions and how they're going to process complaints and do the investigations

[4:47:42] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and and give people time to comply and the how we're going to go through the notice for entry

[4:47:49] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: onto property and those local issues that wouldn't necessarily you don't need to capture within the

[4:47:57] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: trust council policy document okay

[4:48:04] Trustee Patrick: i just was wondering if we're still missing that element

[4:48:08] Trustee Patrick: element of the bylaws and what's in there. But I don't know how others feel. Trustee Boland?

[4:48:15] Voice 2: So what I'm hearing, I think, is that basically this is like a variation. Everything that is

[4:48:25] Voice 2: above us in this policy, a local trust committee can make a subset or a variation on. I see you

[4:48:35] Voice 2: shaking your head warren but if i look at things like um establishing procedures and timing for

[4:48:42] Voice 2: property inspections uh prioritizing um enforcement of types of convey is this is this not the guts of

[4:48:53] Voice 2: what we've just discussed above which a local trust committee can then adopt discretionary

[4:49:01] Voice 2: enforcement policies about and my second question is you're going you have this kind of model or

[4:49:08] Voice 2: standard local trust committee bylaw do you think that'll be adopted and will i suppose what i'm

[4:49:16] Voice 2: looking for is where do these things start to diverge and how different are they going to be

[4:49:22] Voice 2: again given that we've tried to bring them all back together and make them better and similar

[4:49:28] Voice 2: similar so

[4:49:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: through the chair i would say they they can't diverge trust council has its area

[4:49:35] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: of responsibility and authority local trust committee has its air it's a land use authority

[4:49:42] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: which the trust council doesn't have so in 12 here you're setting out here is what look and

[4:49:49] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: it's just really an acknowledgement of the discretionary enforcement policies that the

[4:49:54] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: local trust committees as a separate autonomous local government can adopt and anything that the

[4:50:02] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: local trust committees adopt should not conflict or diverge from what is within trust council

[4:50:08] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: authority when the policy documents that i wrote up that have now been adopted by denman island

[4:50:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: gabriola and main island everything that was in there i ensured that it complies with the

[4:50:24] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the guiding principles and policies within the trust council policy 551 so that there would be

[4:50:33] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: no conflict give

[4:50:49] Voice 2: us an example or for instance the timing for property inspections where is that

[4:50:56] Voice 2: um how many places or where is that uh defined on one island or multiple islands

[4:51:06] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So by policy, it's now done by Denman Island, Gabriola, Main Island, and I think soon CITERNA will adopt their policies.

[4:51:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And within those four documents that will set out what is within the authority of the local trust committees, there are discretionary policies that they can adopt and give a direction to staff.

[4:51:31] Voice 2: Sorry, that is the local trust committee discretionary policy.

[4:51:36] Voice 2: And is it at a higher level with a different value someplace else,

[4:51:41] Voice 2: which they are then varying or not?

[4:51:47] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So the, and Robert may be able to provide a better answer than I,

[4:51:51] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: but each local trust committee is an autonomous local government and they are

[4:51:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the enforcement authority.

[4:51:58] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Trust council is the funding authority.

[4:52:00] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and a lot of the original policies within the trust council documents how how do we manage

[4:52:05] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: resources how much resources can we give for local trust committees to do their and what is

[4:52:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: their enforcement work and i'll pass it over to robert first so just

[4:52:16] Voice 5: with the example trustee

[4:52:18] Voice 5: and you were talking about about entry so in this policy 5.1 uses the same language

[4:52:25] Voice 5: which, as the legislation does, which is reasonable, uses the word

[4:52:29] Voice 5: reasonable, reasonable hours, and that's what the

[4:52:32] Voice 5: legislation says, that's what almost all of the land use bylaws

[4:52:36] Voice 5: and bylaw enforcement bylaws say, and

[4:52:40] Voice 5: then now it falls to the local trust committee

[4:52:44] Voice 5: policy to set that specific time. So in other words,

[4:52:48] Voice 5: for Saturna Island, reasonable notice

[4:52:53] Voice 5: this might mean 30 days, 20 days, whatever.

[4:52:57] Voice 5: Whereas on another island, in the context of that community,

[4:53:00] Voice 5: reasonable is 48 hours, something like that.

[4:53:04] Voice 5: So that gives the local trust communities that discretion at the local level.

[4:53:09] Voice 5: And this policy sets the sort of the broader parameters.

[4:53:14] Voice 5: And wherever possible, they shouldn't conflict.

[4:53:19] Voice 5: And, you know, maybe that's a lens to review it by.

[4:53:23] Voice 5: is there any sort of conflict between this draft policy 5.5.1

[4:53:28] Voice 5: and a local trust committee policy?

[4:53:33] Voice 2: Okay, so what you're saying, I'm sorry,

[4:53:36] Voice 2: I seem like I'm being a bit dim about this,

[4:53:39] Voice 2: but if you don't have a discretionary local policy,

[4:53:44] Voice 2: this policy applies, all of it, full stop.

[4:53:47] Voice 5: Yes, along with the legislation and your bylaw.

[4:53:50] Voice 2: So you have an option to make things more specific

[4:53:56] Voice 2: or to vary them within the envelope described by this policy.

[4:54:01] Voice 2: Exactly, correct.

[4:54:02] Voice 2: Okay, I get that.

[4:54:04] Voice 2: I suppose I don't get it.

[4:54:06] Voice 2: Yeah, okay, that's fine.

[4:54:07] Voice 2: Thank you.

[4:54:08] Voice 5: Yeah.

[4:54:11] Trustee Patrick: All right.

[4:54:14] Trustee Patrick: So we have bylaw notice depth then.

[4:54:17] Trustee Patrick: A

[4:54:21] Voice 5: question on this.

[4:54:58] Trustee Elliott: Go ahead.

[4:54:58] Trustee Elliott: um i'm just a little unclear it seems to imply that it's the director of planning services and

[4:55:06] Trustee Elliott: the manager who have the authority to cancel debt who's uh but it's actually trust council

[4:55:16] Trustee Elliott: so do we need articulation of how debt bylaw notice or bylaw debt is canceled i feel like

[4:55:28] Trustee Elliott: Like, there's something missing here.

[4:55:46] Trustee Elliott: Like, so say director of planning services and the manager concur, the contraventions don't exist.

[4:55:54] Trustee Elliott: They make that determination and the debt disappears.

[4:56:00] Trustee Elliott: Like, we don't pursue it.

[4:56:02] Trustee Elliott: Who makes that decision?

[4:56:03] Trustee Elliott: Does that come back to executive?

[4:56:05] Trustee Elliott: Does it go to the LTC?

[4:56:11] Trustee Elliott: I'm a little unclear here.

[4:56:13] Trustee Elliott: Thanks.

[4:56:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So, Chair?

[4:56:17] Trustee Elliott: Yes.

[4:56:18] Trustee Elliott: When

[4:56:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: this policy was adopted, the amendment to the policy 551 was giving the authority to do this by Trust Council.

[4:56:27] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: This policy was adopted at Trust Council, and so it's giving us the authority.

[4:56:34] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Trust Council is using its authority to grant that discretionary authority to the director and the manager in this circumstance.

[4:56:43] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: They could change it and they could say, okay, yes, we want this to be reviewed by executive committee first, add another layer to the process.

[4:56:54] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: But when this was originally adopted, they were delegating their authority to the director and the manager.

[4:57:05] Trustee Elliott: Does that not place staff in a bit of a tricky position?

[4:57:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Can you give me an example?

[4:57:22] Trustee Elliott: Without breaching confidentiality?

[4:57:26] Trustee Elliott: It's a

[4:57:26] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: very limited, this is very limited and it's really for small amounts.

[4:57:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: I would say it doesn't necessarily say that, but as a practice, this has been used for relatively small amounts.

[4:57:39] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: It hasn't been used for large amounts, which are more serious.

[4:57:43] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And often if it's a larger amount, the contraventions still exist.

[4:57:47] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So it can't be up to the director and the manager to cancel it because, you know, there's no policy that allows us to do it.

[4:57:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: this is when we've got compliance this is what this is saying there's now compliance and the

[4:58:01] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: goal is to seek voluntary compliance so why it's not in the interest of us just to pursue debt

[4:58:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: when we have compliance on the property and so those issues that are going towards ec are much

[4:58:13] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: more serious issues and where there is no compliance well

[4:58:28] Trustee Elliott: i'm just thinking of a recent

[4:58:30] Trustee Elliott: an instance so i'm that's what's got me muddled right now um so

[4:58:35] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: actually i do chair to the chair

[4:58:38] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: i share concerns about canceling debt as this money's owed to trust council and you know i

[4:58:47] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: didn't write this policy at the time other staff wrote this policy and recommended it and i would

[4:58:53] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: would be quite happy to see any of these debt issues go to the executive committee to sign off

[4:59:02] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: instead of it being done by staff members, to be totally honest.

[4:59:11] Trustee Patrick: Why don't we

[4:59:12] Trustee Patrick: flag this one for further discussion?

[4:59:15] Trustee Elliott: Yeah, because I think that's where the authority lies.

[4:59:17] Trustee Elliott: If executive is authorizing legal action, it should probably be the body that would say,

[4:59:26] Trustee Elliott: Okay, this is not in the interest of violence trust to pursue the debt. I think that's, that would make more sense to me. I think it puts too much on staff to make a determination that it's not not in the interest of violence trust to pursue the debt. I think that's outside the authority. So yeah, I think we should do some work on this.

[5:00:09] Trustee Patrick: Okay. Yes. So I think just flag that one for further discussions,

[5:00:13] Trustee Patrick: probably direct that towards the executive committee to discuss that

[5:00:21] Trustee Patrick: clause. Rob, we've got a couple of minutes here. Do we have enough time?

[5:00:25] Trustee Patrick: I mean, we're basically at three. Do we want to keep on going or stop?

[5:00:28] Trustee Patrick: I think the vexatious is kind of important.

[5:00:31] Trustee Patrick: It might take some more conversation. I know we got awfully close.

[5:00:35] Trustee Patrick: um i'm

[5:00:37] Voice 2: willing to go on to try and finish this but maybe others can't so that's fine

[5:00:43] Voice 2: we

[5:00:45] Trustee Patrick: still have a whole manual to get through not what's the will

[5:00:50] Trustee Elliott: of the committee

[5:00:51] Trustee Elliott: i'd like to get through this policy today if staff are willing uh but recognizing we may lose quorum

[5:00:57] Trustee Elliott: if uh trustee graham has got to go i don't see trustee laroni oh trustee laroni is still here

[5:01:05] Trustee Elliott: and your cat does your cat count towards uh quorum there come on very nice kitty all right

[5:01:17] Trustee Elliott: i'd

[5:01:18] Trustee Patrick: like to keep going personally but just to finish this policy you david david are you able

[5:01:22] Trustee Patrick: to stay a few more minutes or no if

[5:01:24] Voice 9: we can move a little quicker okay

[5:01:25] Trustee Patrick: all right frivolous and

[5:01:27] Trustee Patrick: repeat vexatious complaints the only comment i have here is the version i you know a copy of a

[5:01:36] Trustee Patrick: bylaw i'm looking at they don't say the person is declared they just say the complaints that are

[5:01:43] Trustee Patrick: made in bad faith or for vexatious or retaliatory purposes may not be acted upon um is this way

[5:01:51] Trustee Patrick: to me this is this is going to get someone offended you know we're saying you're vexatious

[5:01:57] Trustee Patrick: it's already happened it's

[5:01:58] Trustee Patrick: your complaint that's vexatious you know i know it but i think it would

[5:02:03] Trustee Patrick: would be better to tone this toward the complaint be declared vexatious complaints

[5:02:07] Trustee Elliott: may be declared

[5:02:08] Trustee Elliott: vexatious yeah yeah i agree does that change the meaning stuff like you're no longer going to

[5:02:19] Trustee Elliott: listen to this person if they have been declared vexatious and i know that has a term in the courts

[5:02:26] Trustee Elliott: so um does that change the intent of this policy say warren's got his hand up so chair

[5:02:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: There are, I'd say there are certain complainants that they make vexatious complaints so often that, yes, this is about them.

[5:02:51] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: It's about a very small group of individuals who, what other local governments do, for example, I think of the CRD and one particular individual within the local trust area who they years ago said, we will no longer communicate with you.

[5:03:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: we get material coming to us that is very offensive towards staff and and others actually

[5:03:17] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and it comes to a point of how do we handle this type of messaging from this person and

[5:03:27] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: you know do we really should we really be subjecting staff like some staff i i don't

[5:03:35] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: i don't care what they say i've read the worst of the worst um other staff read it

[5:03:41] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: or they hear my voicemail messages and that's a whole new level of harassment that they've

[5:03:49] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: never been exposed to so at some point

[5:03:52] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: yeah

[5:03:54] Trustee Patrick: can i make a suggestion here the version i'm looking

[5:03:56] Trustee Patrick: i'm looking at chiloac that's who i really like so they have the first one talks about the

[5:04:02] Trustee Patrick: complaints being bad faith or vexatious. The next one says complaints that form a part of a pattern

[5:04:10] Trustee Patrick: of conduct by the complainant that amounts to an abuse of the complaint process may not be acted

[5:04:16] Trustee Patrick: upon. So they've separated it out. So I think just starting the section with persons, to me,

[5:04:22] Trustee Patrick: just is like we're identifying people and it should be about the complaints that are declared

[5:04:26] Trustee Patrick: vexatious and we have a way. And then we need to add another one that talks about, okay, somebody

[5:04:31] Trustee Patrick: who just has a pattern of creating complaints that that's a different issue is that i totally

[5:04:39] Trustee Patrick: and

[5:04:44] Trustee Elliott: i agree with protecting staff from a person who has a pattern of complaining or

[5:04:52] Trustee Elliott: being verbally abusive there should be a way of of dealing with that so i'd start with the

[5:04:58] Trustee Elliott: a complaint may be declared vexatious blah blah blah and then the second one would be

[5:05:05] Trustee Elliott: what you described can we pull from that yep

[5:05:08] Trustee Patrick: i can send that to you rob i'll just send you the

[5:05:11] Trustee Patrick: i'll type it up for you so

[5:05:17] Voice 2: so basically an individual complaint can be declared vexatious

[5:05:23] Voice 2: and therefore ignored but the next level would be somebody who repetitively made

[5:05:30] Voice 2: and vexatious complaints and then you would deal with that person by severing communication

[5:05:37] Voice 2: communication on that topic at least so um and actually it says it does not prevent the

[5:05:45] Voice 2: complainant from making complaints on different matters um so vexatious complaints will all

[5:05:54] Voice 2: the repetitive ones will be about the same topic but they might not necessarily be

[5:06:01] Voice 2: sorry i'm just kind of thinking out loud um so yeah i agree with separating a complaint from

[5:06:10] Voice 2: the repetitive and therefore becomes the complainant who's designated that way thanks

[5:06:20] Voice 2: all right

[5:06:26] Voice 4: all right it's

[5:06:34] Trustee Patrick: off to you okay so we'll add that one and change persons to complaint okay

[5:06:44] Trustee Patrick: Great. Local trust committees, trust council, and trustees.

[5:06:48] Trustee Patrick: Chair, can you pause?

[5:06:49] Trustee Patrick: Yes.

[5:06:50] Trustee Elliott: So just in 15.2, Mayor Sheehy's opened a file,

[5:06:56] Trustee Elliott: but we should have that a response will be made

[5:07:00] Trustee Elliott: and reasons given why the complaint is considered vexatious.

[5:07:05] Trustee Elliott: It's in the Gabriela LTC policy, and we've had to use it recently.

[5:07:12] Trustee Patrick: Nope, it's a good point.

[5:07:13] Trustee Patrick: They have that one in here, Chilliwack, too. It says, if a decision is made to not act upon a

[5:07:17] Trustee Patrick: complaint, the complainant will be advised of the decision, the reason for it, and may be advised of

[5:07:22] Trustee Patrick: the circumstances under which it may be reconsidered.

[5:07:25] Trustee Elliott: Yeah. That's the language I think we

[5:07:27] Trustee Elliott: have in the Gabriel LTC policy. So I think it should be here, too.

[5:07:40] Trustee Patrick: Okay. I'll send that one,

[5:07:42] Trustee Patrick: too. So the next section. Jump in someone. I'm trying to type away here. So

[5:08:02] Trustee Patrick: keep the conversation

[5:08:03] Trustee Patrick: conversation going this

[5:08:04] Trustee Elliott: should be called maybe roles or responsibilities of local trust committees

[5:08:08] Trustee Elliott: trust council and trustees it sort of the title leaves me a little um you know is this about

[5:08:15] Trustee Elliott: communication is this about authority um so could it be uh local trust committee trust council and

[5:08:26] Trustee Elliott: or just roles of um and i think the rest is me i think the rest is good i'd like

[5:08:49] Trustee Elliott: i'd like to see uh just again a little bit of a separation so the local trust committee

[5:08:55] Trustee Elliott: local trust committee and then it goes to trustees and then it goes to local trust committees

[5:09:01] Trustee Elliott: um should there be subsections you know what are the responsibilities of local trust committees and

[5:09:07] Trustee Elliott: and then list those, and then trustees may make a written complaint,

[5:09:13] Trustee Elliott: but trustees are not to be involved,

[5:09:18] Trustee Elliott: and then the Trust Council policy would be a separate one.

[5:09:26] Trustee Elliott: But I think the information's all good.

[5:09:31] Trustee Elliott: And actually, sorry, 16.3 will be notified

[5:09:35] Trustee Elliott: when the bylaw investigation file's been closed.

[5:09:37] Trustee Elliott: What information are they provided?

[5:09:39] Trustee Elliott: They're not provided the name.

[5:09:41] Trustee Elliott: it's just the location and the the reasons was is it the reason that a file

[5:09:51] Trustee Elliott: has been open due to a complaint trustee

[5:10:02] Trustee Patrick: Graham I

[5:10:04] Voice 9: don't see trust counsel in any

[5:10:07] Voice 9: of 16.2 to 16.7 am i missing one the

[5:10:11] Trustee Patrick: last 8 one more on the next page

[5:10:13] Voice 9: that's

[5:10:16] Voice 9: That's why I don't see it.

[5:10:17] Voice 9: Thank you.

[5:10:17] Voice 9: It

[5:10:17] Trustee Patrick: just says Trust Council will be informed of the volume and type of bylaw enforcement

[5:10:21] Trustee Patrick: files biannually.

[5:10:23] Voice 9: That's fine.

[5:10:24] Voice 9: I don't have a problem with the title.

[5:10:25] Voice 9: I don't have a problem as long as Trust Council is in there.

[5:10:28] Voice 9: That's fine for me.

[5:10:38] Trustee Elliott: Oh, sorry.

[5:10:39] Trustee Elliott: All the information is there.

[5:10:40] Trustee Elliott: I apologize.

[5:10:41] Trustee Elliott: 16.2.

[5:10:47] Trustee Elliott: Okay.

[5:10:59] Voice 2: So is 16.6, is that similar to the one earlier or is it different?

[5:11:14] Voice 2: that you know earlier we discussed that a local trust committee um could have a discretionary

[5:11:22] Voice 2: enforcement policy is that the same 12.1

[5:11:27] Trustee Patrick: yes

[5:11:28] Voice 5: yes it's the same

[5:11:29] Trustee Patrick: so we should probably have a

[5:11:30] Trustee Patrick: reference there so that it's maybe

[5:11:35] Voice 2: just call it the same is it should or could have or may have

[5:11:42] Voice 2: may adopt um discretionary enforcement policies i

[5:11:52] Trustee Elliott: think it should be may to concur with 12.1

[5:11:56] Trustee Elliott: yeah

[5:11:57] Voice 2: i always think shit sounds like you're lacking if you don't and in fact it is discretionary so

[5:12:05] Voice 2: well

[5:12:08] Trustee Elliott: and what are we trying to say here what is this policy accomplishing that 12.1 is not

[5:12:13] Trustee Elliott: local trust committees may adopt specific enforcement policies to their air or you

[5:12:18] Trustee Elliott: enforcement policies specific to their area.

[5:12:22] Trustee Elliott: I think it's already stated.

[5:12:24] Voice 2: Yeah, we could just remove it entirely, I think.

[5:12:30] Trustee Elliott: What does anybody else think?

[5:12:32] Trustee Elliott: I don't think it's...

[5:12:33] Voice 2: Because

[5:12:33] Trustee Elliott: this is about the triage of information.

[5:12:36] Trustee Elliott: It's how does communication flow

[5:12:40] Trustee Elliott: and who gets what communication.

[5:12:41] Trustee Elliott: I think we can remove 16.6 if staff concurs.

[5:12:47] Trustee Elliott: I concur.

[5:12:48] Trustee Elliott: Staff challenge.

[5:12:51] Voice 5: yeah i think it's redundant yeah

[5:12:54] Voice 2: that's a huge success removing something entirely omg yes

[5:13:01] Trustee Patrick: best practice manual last one here i think's okay and we should take a quick look at the

[5:13:08] Trustee Patrick: summary of poor rob's tracking so we can close this out yeah

[5:13:11] Voice 5: yeah and rob could you

[5:13:13] Voice 5: note that the numbering is off in section 16. yes i will thanks and 17. and 17. yeah

[5:13:25] Trustee Elliott: that's a bit

[5:13:26] Trustee Patrick: interesting did we

[5:13:29] Trustee Elliott: have capitalization of best practices manual that's a

[5:13:37] Voice 2: best practices guide so should we make sure

[5:13:42] Trustee Patrick: the titles match yeah whatever the titles be so

[5:13:47] Trustee Patrick: okay okay let's take a look at the table rob so we can let poor david go all of us

[5:14:03] Trustee Patrick: all right for the discussion on the cultural heritage one so i think that's pretty clear

[5:14:11] Trustee Patrick: uh we added the one to the top there for the guiding principles um yeah three three is guiding

[5:14:26] Trustee Patrick: principle oh no it's not sorry it's not three three is not guiding principles i lied no three

[5:14:35] Trustee Patrick: no it was section it was just where were we sorry i'm lost now wait a minute 2.3 let's make sure we

[5:14:51] Trustee Patrick: get the right one there ah investigation aggressive enforcement there we go yeah

[5:14:59] Trustee Elliott: we were talking about

[5:14:59] Trustee Elliott: referrals to other agencies yeah yeah okay

[5:15:06] Trustee Patrick: so it's just you got it all right um voluntary

[5:15:13] Trustee Patrick: Voluntary compliance, combine 8.1 and 8.2.

[5:15:16] Trustee Patrick: Reviewing conduct of, acknowledging within,

[5:15:21] Trustee Patrick: that's just a typo, information tree,

[5:15:24] Trustee Patrick: visual guide, assessment of points that will be guided

[5:15:29] Trustee Patrick: by the principal, et cetera.

[5:15:31] Trustee Patrick: And that one's so good.

[5:15:34] Trustee Patrick: Guiding principles, and having a nice sort of fairness one.

[5:15:39] Trustee Patrick: We'll do the language, that's good.

[5:15:42] Trustee Patrick: With that, we decide further discussion.

[5:15:45] Trustee Patrick: i think it's also further discussion with the executive committee in particular

[5:15:50] Trustee Patrick: too they should be flagged to um take a look at this they don't have they can do it anytime they

[5:15:57] Trustee Patrick: can work it into their work is

[5:16:12] Voice 2: it best practices guide that's the actual title or is manual just

[5:16:18] Voice 2: a description of the thing that we've created and the title of the document i think is the

[5:16:26] Voice 2: best practices guide for the well maybe that's the ombudsman's one I

[5:16:33] Trustee Elliott: think it had been intended

[5:16:34] Trustee Elliott: to be a manual for staff we turned it into a guide for the public

[5:16:37] Trustee Patrick: Rob I think the under 15.1

[5:16:44] Trustee Patrick: there I think it would you'd be adding a new the complaints that one would be a new

[5:16:51] Trustee Patrick: we can leave it there but it would be or you just pull it that you'd have a new 15-2 I think

[5:16:56] Trustee Patrick: it would be broken out that's all yeah so add new yes

[5:17:07] Voice 2: okay it is code or we call ours

[5:17:13] Voice 2: a manual okay and then that 15

[5:17:18] Trustee Patrick: so they're 15 3 is what 15 2 becomes 15 3 and then we have a new 15 4

[5:17:27] Trustee Patrick: that last one is a new 15 4 nope that where you just called 3 that's new 15 4 there we go all

[5:17:43] Trustee Patrick: All right. Does that look good to everybody?

[5:17:46] Trustee Patrick: Just

[5:17:47] Trustee Elliott: a quick question. Title of 16, was it

[5:17:51] Trustee Elliott: Trustee Graham wanted to stick with LTCs, TC and Trustees? Do we want to add roles and

[5:17:54] Trustee Elliott: responsibilities or just leave as is?

[5:18:01] Trustee Patrick: How's everybody feeling? Just leave it as is

[5:18:03] Trustee Patrick: for now? Roles, I think. Roles.

[5:18:10] Voice 2: Responsibilities probably might need more detail,

[5:18:14] Voice 2: but roles would be good, I think, in the tagging.

[5:18:33] Trustee Elliott: Great. Sign off.

[5:18:35] Trustee Patrick: Boom. All right.

[5:18:36] Trustee Patrick: Did we need a motion or how did we do this last time?

[5:18:38] Trustee Patrick: I was quickly trying to see what we did last time

[5:18:40] Trustee Patrick: and I'm not quickly finding it.

[5:18:45] Voice 2: Could I just say thank you to all the staff involved in this with us?

[5:18:50] Voice 2: You've made it extraordinarily easy,

[5:18:54] Voice 2: considering the fact that we're all a bit weary.

[5:18:57] Voice 2: And so I really appreciate how you've responded to our ruminations,

[5:19:05] Voice 2: let's say.

[5:19:06] Voice 2: Thank you.

[5:19:08] Trustee Patrick: Okay.

[5:19:08] Trustee Patrick: Okay, how would you like to handle this?

[5:19:10] Trustee Patrick: I'll look to you, Director Cermak.

[5:19:11] Trustee Patrick: Do we need a motion?

[5:19:15] Voice 10: You know I'm going to say yes.

[5:19:17] Trustee Patrick: I do.

[5:19:18] Trustee Patrick: You're going to say that.

[5:19:19] Trustee Patrick: What did, Rob, do you have an idea of what we had last time?

[5:19:22] Trustee Patrick: We just said to make amendments to policy enforcement 551 as outlined in, I'm trying to find what we said last time.

[5:19:35] Trustee Patrick: Table of

[5:19:36] Trustee Patrick: amendments, something like that.

[5:19:39] Trustee Patrick: request

[5:19:41] Trustee Elliott: staff to make the amendments to enforcement i couldn't

[5:19:47] Trustee Elliott: couldn't find where we did last time so

[5:19:50] Trustee Elliott: sorry i think it could just be as discussed yeah or as as

[5:19:56] Trustee Patrick: recorded in the table or something

[5:19:58] Trustee Patrick: yeah

[5:19:58] Trustee Elliott: as recorded that's great i

[5:20:03] Trustee Patrick: was recorded in this table oh that looks good very good

[5:20:10] Trustee Patrick: All right. Somebody make that motion.

[5:20:13] Trustee Elliott: I move.

[5:20:14] Trustee Elliott: Regional Planning Committee requests staff to make

[5:20:16] Trustee Elliott: amendments to Trust Council Policy 5.5.1

[5:20:19] Trustee Elliott: as recorded in the

[5:20:20] Trustee Elliott: amendments table.

[5:20:22] Voice 9: Let's at least

[5:20:23] Voice 9: add

[5:20:24] Voice 9: the date of the meeting so that

[5:20:26] Voice 9: which table are we looking at?

[5:20:31] Voice 4: February

[5:20:31] Voice 9: 7th meeting of the RPC.

[5:20:33] Trustee Patrick: Thank you.

[5:20:34] Voice 9: Thank you.

[5:20:37] Trustee Patrick: Are you

[5:20:38] Trustee Patrick: prepared

[5:20:39] Trustee Patrick: to second that then, David?

[5:20:40] Trustee Patrick: i

[5:20:40] Voice 9: am prepared to second that

[5:20:42] Trustee Patrick: okay uh any discussion all right i'll call the vote all those

[5:20:47] Trustee Patrick: in favor there is my hand that carries okay so thank you guys that was hard work um we got through

[5:21:00] Trustee Patrick: um we're not done or not okay council i'm don't know i don't think so not yet

[5:21:10] Voice 10: No, if I may, Chair?

[5:21:13] Trustee Patrick: Yes, please.

[5:21:14] Voice 10: Yeah, what I'll do is, so, you know,

[5:21:17] Voice 10: I've observed that the structure of Trust Council has changed a bit

[5:21:20] Voice 10: so that the respective chairs of each committee can speak

[5:21:23] Voice 10: at the very beginning of Trust Council.

[5:21:25] Voice 10: So I'll leave it up to Trustee Patrick what she would like to say about RPC.

[5:21:29] Voice 10: I know for, I submit a director's report,

[5:21:31] Voice 10: and in it I will give a summary of this meeting,

[5:21:35] Voice 10: what the key decisions you made were, and the path forward.

[5:21:38] Voice 10: So, but I won't submit any policies or any documents until this committee resolves to do so.

[5:21:49] Trustee Patrick: I think that would be good.

[5:21:51] Trustee Patrick: All right, then.

[5:21:53] Trustee Patrick: Our next meeting is May 9th.

[5:21:56] Trustee Patrick: And with that, do we have a modus?

[5:21:59] Trustee Patrick: Modus.

[5:22:00] Trustee Patrick: A modus adjourn.

[5:22:03] Trustee Patrick: There we go.

[5:22:04] Trustee Patrick: All right.

[5:22:05] Trustee Patrick: Thank you, guys, everybody.

[5:22:07] Trustee Patrick: This was a lot of work, but super.

[5:22:10] Trustee Elliott: Thanks, Rob.

[5:22:11] Trustee Elliott: Well, thanks for hanging in there, everybody.

[5:22:12] Trustee Elliott: Happy Friday.