Islands Trust Council regular meeting, June 18, 2025

[0:03:52] Trustee Patrick: all right i would like uh thank you trustees this is our day two of the meeting that we are now back

[0:03:59] Trustee Patrick: into our meeting i think remembering our opening words yesterday from chief pelkey sort of the

[0:04:07] Trustee Patrick: welcome as we come into the room to work together and uh that's the spirit that we'll carry on our

[0:04:13] Trustee Patrick: meetings with today so we are now at item 10 in our agenda beginning on page 120 and before we uh

[0:04:23] Trustee Patrick: talk about approving these for general consent i want to turn over to our our cio brony thank you

[0:04:31] Voice 7: chair um first item you have for me is is my quarterly report um happy to take any any

[0:04:38] Voice 7: questions on that that you may have um otherwise i think it's fairly self-explanatory i'll just

[0:04:43] Voice 7: just acknowledge that I think I'm now closing in on seven months in this role, and so thank you for

[0:04:50] Voice 7: the grace and space that you have all afforded me. I know we'll probably talk a little bit more

[0:04:55] Voice 7: about where to from here, but I appreciate the effort that many of you have made to make it a

[0:05:00] Voice 7: very positive experience, and you'll see a reference in my report as well to the initial

[0:05:06] Voice 7: planning I'm doing around undertaking an operational review for the Trust, and I hope to bring forward

[0:05:11] Voice 7: recommendations preliminary recommendation or at least a report out to you by September with

[0:05:16] Voice 7: with something more formal and final by by December to address some of the challenges I

[0:05:21] Voice 7: think we face but also how we might we might address those to support more effective delivery

[0:05:26] Voice 7: of the work that you do and that that staff do as well if there's no comments or questions on that

[0:05:36] Voice 7: then the other next item is the regular update that we include on trust council strategic plan

[0:05:41] Voice 7: priorities, but this has now been updated to reflect the new strategic plan that you approved

[0:05:46] Voice 7: in March. What you see listed in this report is just those items that you identified, the green

[0:05:52] Voice 7: items from the strategic plan that are the priorities for the balance of this term. So it's

[0:05:56] Voice 7: not all of the items captured in the plan, but obviously focusing on the ones that are underway.

[0:06:03] Voice 7: There is one issue I wanted to raise with you and get some clarification and direction on from you.

[0:06:09] Voice 7: In a recent meeting of Trust Programs Committee, it emerged that there was an interpretation from those of you who are on Trust Programs Committee that the items identified in the strategic plan as to be initiated in fiscal 26-27, that there was an understanding that that meant business cases for those items would come forward in 26-27 for funding in the following year, 27-28.

[0:06:34] Voice 7: That caught us as senior staff by a bit of surprise because our interpretation was that that meant work would begin on those in 26-27, which would mean business cases coming forward as part of this year's budget cycle.

[0:06:48] Voice 7: So we had a bit of a discussion about that at TPC, and there seemed to be a consensus that, no, they weren't anticipating business cases to come forward until 26-27.

[0:06:58] Voice 7: Obviously, that has some advantages from a managing workload this year perspective.

[0:07:03] Voice 7: But I also wanted to table that question with you here as full trust counsel, just to ensure

[0:07:08] Voice 7: that we have a clear and consistent understanding and get your direction so we can clarify that.

[0:07:14] Voice 7: And so I'd like to maybe open it up to comments from you on whether or not that is in fact

[0:07:21] Voice 7: understanding and if so, we have, I've got some draft wording for a resolution that would

[0:07:25] Voice 7: clarify that.

[0:07:26] Voice 7: But I wanted to make sure that we're coming out of this meeting with a clear understanding

[0:07:29] Voice 7: of does to be initiated to you mean we will start the work next year therefore we need business

[0:07:36] Voice 7: cases this year or does it mean business cases next year with then actual work to begin the

[0:07:42] Voice 7: following year okay

[0:07:47] Trustee Patrick: go ahead trustee evans i'm

[0:07:51] Voice 12: just going to expand on that a little bit um uh

[0:07:53] Voice 12: so with the amount of work that we currently have with the current items up on the screen

[0:08:02] Voice 12: if that work is going to be completed this year and we're going to have space on the strategic

[0:08:13] Voice 12: plan to put new items on then yes business cases should occur if that work is anticipated to

[0:08:20] Voice 12: continue until the end of our term then those business cases should come the following year

[0:08:26] Voice 12: for initiation afterwards we should not be developing business cases to be budgeted

[0:08:34] Voice 12: for work that cannot be started due to resourcing issues so i think that needs to be part of the

[0:08:41] Voice 12: conversation here you

[0:08:44] Voice 21: know yeah

[0:08:45] Voice 7: thank you chair i think and to clarify so the items the green items

[0:08:49] Voice 7: as the priorities for this term doesn't necessarily mean they will be completed this fiscal it will

[0:08:55] Voice 7: depend on some of them might be it depends on the individual project charters some of them are

[0:08:58] Voice 7: longer term um it was understood that those those green items were the items that we were going to

[0:09:03] Voice 7: focus on as the priorities for now but i think uh to trustee evans point yes obviously um deferring

[0:09:10] Voice 7: business cases to fiscal 2627 obviously does help us manage the workload pressures that said i know

[0:09:17] Voice 7: there are some items that are in that blue category where the responsible committees may

[0:09:23] Voice 7: They still want to propose that we advance business cases.

[0:09:26] Voice 7: I think that can still be possible.

[0:09:30] Voice 7: It's just that would have to be an exception to what is mapped out in the strategic plan

[0:09:34] Voice 7: if the understanding is that for the most part, those would be 26, 27 business cases.

[0:09:44] Voice 21: All right.

[0:09:45] Voice 22: Chelsea Fast.

[0:09:47] Voice 22: Thanks.

[0:09:48] Voice 22: I'm just wondering, because you're talking about the colors, can somebody tell me the

[0:09:51] Voice 22: page that that chart is on with the colors?

[0:09:54] Voice 22: Because it's not in this particular part.

[0:09:56] Voice 22: Anybody has that handy?

[0:09:58] Voice 22: Okay.

[0:09:58] Voice 22: Okay, 47, thank you.

[0:10:05] Voice 18: Trustee Elliott, sorry, I was on.

[0:10:07] Voice 18: So I think we do need to reach consensus

[0:10:09] Voice 18: because RPC had a different interpretation

[0:10:12] Voice 18: and we advanced, we approved four business cases

[0:10:18] Voice 18: for projects to be initiated in 26, 27.

[0:10:21] Voice 18: If you look at this chart,

[0:10:22] Voice 18: the only thing assigned to TPC is the policy statement,

[0:10:28] Voice 18: but there is work that was approved in that last,

[0:10:33] Voice 18: meeting it's just that nothing would then go forward into 26 27 if you haven't initiated

[0:10:40] Voice 18: business cases for it so that could be budgeted so i don't necessarily agree with trustee evans's

[0:10:46] Voice 18: assessment that you have to wait until the project is finished before reviewing business

[0:10:51] Voice 18: cases for the next year because that would set you back nine months to a year i'm sorry

[0:11:03] Voice 12: So when we were coming up with the corporate plan and how we add things onto the current workload

[0:11:13] Voice 12: in the strategic plan, right now with the color coordination, we have the light green,

[0:11:18] Voice 12: that is the priority work, that is the work that gets the attention of staff.

[0:11:21] Voice 12: Then we have the darker green, which is the next priority item to be moved up into the light green

[0:11:30] Voice 12: as in to become active work and priority for staff then you have the blue which is

[0:11:40] Voice 12: to be initiated and then the red which is timeline unknown oh thank you so much so

[0:11:49] Voice 12: if you've got a business case and that's going to be blue you're going to be starting the business

[0:11:55] Voice 12: case then the anticipation is that that is going to be moved into a work that

[0:12:04] Voice 12: which work item is that going to be once once a project has been completed on the

[0:12:10] Voice 12: strategic plan this group needs to come back together and say what is the next

[0:12:14] Voice 12: priority item to be moved into active work if there is a business case that's

[0:12:19] Voice 12: being moved forward and this council then says that actually is higher

[0:12:22] Voice 12: priority than something that's currently on the priority list one of those items

[0:12:27] Voice 12: on the priority list has to be bumped off to make room for that work so part of what we need to do

[0:12:32] Voice 12: sitting around this table is figure out when these business cases come forward and i'm not saying

[0:12:39] Voice 12: that these business cases don't come forward but when they do is it to take is it to replace

[0:12:46] Voice 12: something that's on that list is it a higher priority creating these business cases take a

[0:12:53] Voice 12: a lot of work it takes away from getting some of these items that are currently on the project

[0:13:02] Voice 12: strategic project prioritization position you're taking time away from staff to actually move that

[0:13:10] Voice 12: ahead in order to create a new business plan these business plans aren't easy they're not quick

[0:13:17] Voice 12: so i want to i want to caution against having each of the committees go and say yes we want

[0:13:24] Voice 12: four business plans here we want three business plans there let's get strategic the trust council

[0:13:33] Voice 12: is supposed to turn around to the committees and say this is what you need to focus on this is your

[0:13:38] Voice 12: projects this is what flows out then you go and you get your business case done so depending on

[0:13:48] Voice 12: what those projects are we need to maybe have a conversation here to say yes that now takes

[0:13:54] Voice 12: priority and needs to come up and bump something else off so that's part of the conversation i

[0:14:00] Voice 12: think right now that's all trustee morrison oh sorry oh

[0:14:09] Voice 14: no proceed um so i'm sorry i think i

[0:14:14] Voice 14: need some clarification um from the cao through the chair so to be initiated in 26 27 just from

[0:14:22] Voice 14: strict like how i understand workflow the case would have to be made before 26 to get actual

[0:14:27] Voice 14: work done on something in 26-27. That's my personal understanding. If we don't think we

[0:14:33] Voice 14: should be initiating that, then it shouldn't be blue, it should be red. And so that would just be

[0:14:38] Voice 14: my understanding of this chart. If that's not what we have as a group, I agree, we need absolute

[0:14:45] Voice 14: consensus. So because if I was staff and I had a blue thing, I would be putting that forward to

[0:14:51] Voice 14: committee for like business cases sue

[0:14:55] Voice 7: thank you yeah that that was our understanding when we

[0:15:00] Voice 7: brought forward the strategic plan was that those items in blue meant to be initiated meant the work

[0:15:05] Voice 7: would begin in fiscal 26 27 which would mean a business case as part of this year's cycle it was

[0:15:11] Voice 7: only when it came up at tpc and it was suggested oh no that means you bring forward your business

[0:15:17] Voice 7: case and that was what caused the confusion so that's why we wanted to come back to this table

[0:15:22] Voice 7: and try and clarify when you were approving the strategic plan and it's clear there were two

[0:15:28] Voice 7: different interpretations and so what we need from you today is essentially clarity of whether our

[0:15:33] Voice 7: initial understanding which is consistent with yours trustee morrison or what was tabled at tpc

[0:15:39] Voice 7: is in fact the direction you want to go and then you know to uh to trustee evans point then yes

[0:15:45] Voice 7: part of our assessment from a staff perspective when we're if we're preparing business cases for

[0:15:50] Voice 7: those items this year is providing advice on how this works for us for next year next fiscal year

[0:15:57] Voice 7: how do we have adequate resourcing to be able to deliver that and that comes out of the assessment

[0:16:02] Voice 7: of those as individual projects trustee boland

[0:16:08] Voice 15: excuse me yes um my understanding was that we

[0:16:13] Voice 15: would begin to prepare business cases this year however having said that i'm just going to ask you

[0:16:21] Voice 15: If you think that we are completely out of any capacity,

[0:16:26] Voice 15: the level to which we have capacity to complete the two shades of green

[0:16:31] Voice 15: and prepare business cases.

[0:16:34] Voice 15: And then one thing I would suggest is if we are all going to screen these,

[0:16:39] Voice 15: then is there a possibility of doing an A4 sheet business case,

[0:16:45] Voice 15: like a sort of a high level version that could be used to do an initial filter

[0:16:51] Voice 15: around this table rather than a full-on business case

[0:16:55] Voice 15: which wanders around in committees

[0:16:57] Voice 15: and then slowly works its way to trust counsel,

[0:17:01] Voice 15: but maybe do a high-level one

[0:17:03] Voice 15: and then bring it to trust counsel for the initial screening.

[0:17:06] Voice 15: And if you say we have X capacity,

[0:17:09] Voice 15: then we have to decide which of those we say,

[0:17:13] Voice 15: okay, build a proper business case for this.

[0:17:15] Voice 7: Thanks.

[0:17:17] Trustee Patrick: Tim?

[0:17:17] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, I'll

[0:17:19] Voice 7: maybe invite Director Mobs to comment on sort of the process flow and how that dovetails with the budgeting process, because, of course, that's the essential component of this.

[0:17:29] Voice 7: What I will say is, in the development of what we brought you forward as the strategic plan, this was the conversation I had with senior staff was, these things we are marking in green and blue, are we confident that we could be able to manage those within that cycle?

[0:17:47] Voice 7: And we agreed we could. That said, it's incumbent on us when we're developing each of those business cases to develop a reasonable business case and project plan that says, yes, we can initiate this work with this resourcing for next year.

[0:18:02] Voice 7: but the timeline for that project will look like this because we're going to have to balance

[0:18:07] Voice 7: priorities whereas if so if we're starting work in 26-27 that may look like different than if

[0:18:14] Voice 7: we're saying we're actually starting the work in 27-28 so the bottom line is we tabled that

[0:18:21] Voice 7: timeline for you with the understanding that we would be bringing forward those business cases

[0:18:25] Voice 7: this year and it's on us to make sure we're providing good pragmatic uh outline of what

[0:18:32] Voice 7: that project is going to look like um and subject to your endorsement but we tabled that on that

[0:18:38] Voice 7: understanding that we would be prepared to manage that obviously if we're deferring some of those

[0:18:42] Voice 7: and that may be part of the conversation that happens if those are going to come forward this

[0:18:46] Voice 7: year is is it really manageable on a case-by-case basis if we're deferring some of those that does

[0:18:52] Voice 7: make it possible for us to devote resources to other other things and other pieces of work and

[0:18:57] Voice 7: and makes the workload pressure manageable,

[0:18:59] Voice 7: but we presented the strategic plan for you

[0:19:02] Voice 7: with the expectation that we would be obligated

[0:19:05] Voice 7: to do it within that timeline.

[0:19:08] Voice 21: Christine Averly.

[0:19:12] Thank you, Chair.

[0:19:15] Voice 9: So I'm a little puzzled here

[0:19:18] Voice 9: because I see the color coded thing there.

[0:19:20] Voice 9: I don't see 1.12.

[0:19:24] Voice 9: And so obviously it couldn't be on this form.

[0:19:30] Voice 9: you may have already answered the question, but just the timeline on that when we amended

[0:19:37] Voice 9: the strategic plan yesterday. Go ahead.

[0:19:42] Voice 21: Well,

[0:19:42] Voice 7: I believe in the recommendation that Director Frager brought forward that it would

[0:19:47] Voice 7: be added with the timeline as to be determined. So it would be in that red category because we're

[0:19:52] Voice 7: not clear. We haven't yet determined what that timeline would look like. That would be contingent

[0:19:56] Voice 7: on let's complete policy statement and then let's look at how

[0:20:00] Voice 7: we develop a process then to amend and review

[0:20:03] Voice 7: on an ongoing basis. I don't know, Director Freighter, if you had anything to add, but I think that was

[0:20:07] Voice 7: the proposal. Trustee Brown.

[0:20:20] Voice 11: Yeah, a question for the CEO.

[0:20:24] Voice 11: You know, I think it's common knowledge that a business case should

[0:20:27] Voice 11: include a projection of the total staff and cash resources

[0:20:30] Voice 11: resources a project requires and that provides a basis for the decision at the end of the day as

[0:20:37] Voice 11: to whether or not we can include it in the portfolio of work and balancing it against

[0:20:41] Voice 11: other priorities and help us make the decision uh if i understand trustee evans concern uh about

[0:20:48] Voice 11: the blue items it's uh that we need to be satisfied that to do business cases which

[0:20:53] Voice 11: require a certain amount of work um if we're going to do those business cases for the blue

[0:20:58] Voice 11: items in this fiscal period. Really, the question is, can we do that without interfering on the

[0:21:04] Voice 11: delivery of the green items? So that's the basic question. We have this chart we adopted in the

[0:21:09] Voice 11: first place. Can we do that? Can we do the business cases and still do the green things,

[0:21:14] Voice 11: which is separate from whether or not we decide to implement those business cases for 26, 27?

[0:21:23] Voice 21: Yeah,

[0:21:23] Voice 7: thank you, Trustee Berdardo. I think that that's the crux of the issue is,

[0:21:27] Voice 7: Do we need to do the work on the business cases this year or not? Whether or not you approve those business cases for next fiscal and the work to begin, we'll deal with those on the individual issues. Do we have the capacity to do it? That was our expectation, was that we would have to. Would we be able to make use of that capacity to devote it to other work? Absolutely.

[0:21:50] Voice 7: Absolutely. You know, I've been quite transparent with you that we have capacity pressures. And so if we don't need to do those business cases or don't need to do all of them, then, you know, we're not going to have staff sitting around doing nothing. That's for sure. You know, they'll be able to make good use of that time.

[0:22:05] Voice 7: But we also are respectful of the fact that these are this council's priorities and the things that you want to advance and do the work.

[0:22:13] Voice 7: And so if there's a desire for us to bring forward those business cases, do you have then the deliberation on does it make sense to actually proceed with this?

[0:22:21] Voice 7: Then we're willing to put in the time and effort.

[0:22:26] Voice 11: Verification.

[0:22:26] Voice 11: So what I'm hearing from you, CAO, is that if staff works and develops the business cases as in the original strategic plan identified as blue, that work by staff is not going to impede the delivery of the green items.

[0:22:44] Voice 7: No, it shouldn't impede the delivery of the green items.

[0:22:47] Voice 7: It's a concentrated piece of work in the relatively short term, and so it requires us to dedicate time to that, but it shouldn't significantly impede that.

[0:22:59] Voice 21: Trustee Peterson?

[0:23:01] Voice 10: Yeah, thank you, Chair, and thank you, CAO, for bringing this to the attention of Council generally.

[0:23:07] Voice 10: I think based on what I'm hearing you say, I'm satisfied to go with the expectation that staff is working on here.

[0:23:17] Voice 10: In terms of individual items, though, I do want to point out that in the section on the letter from the Minister,

[0:23:25] Voice 10: starting at page 130, there is an open question on some specific items and how they relate to

[0:23:38] Voice 10: strategic plan initiatives and how we may want to include or not include some of them. So that's

[0:23:45] Voice 10: coming up, but just a prelude.

[0:23:50] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Maberly.

[0:23:52] Voice 9: Yeah, just a quick question. I was wondering,

[0:23:55] Voice 9: So if we decided to proceed with the business cases, even if we didn't decide to proceed with the initiative, would those business cases still be relevant in the following year?

[0:24:05] Voice 9: Yeah,

[0:24:05] Voice 7: that's a great point.

[0:24:07] Voice 7: Yeah, if we're going to do the work on the business cases, even if we develop them now and do that work now, it costs us the time and effort now.

[0:24:16] Voice 7: But even if they don't proceed, if we were bringing them forward next year for reconsideration, it would save us.

[0:24:22] Voice 7: you know that work wouldn't go to waste um as long as these remain priorities of council we'll

[0:24:27] Voice 7: be bringing forward a business case for them either way so we would just be able to dust

[0:24:31] Voice 7: those off a year from now and and reconsider them as part of that following years cycle

[0:24:36] Trustee Patrick: i think it might just be a benefit to give a review of the high the high level review of the

[0:24:42] Trustee Patrick: process for the budget sort of the big broad timeline i don't know if director mumps wants

[0:24:47] Trustee Patrick: wants to touch on that uh

[0:24:52] Voice 8: thanks chair so our usual uh timeline for the budget which you'll

[0:24:56] Voice 8: actually be reviewing at your next meeting um committees and just

[0:25:03] Trustee Patrick: yeah we're uh just uh sorry

[0:25:05] Trustee Patrick: director mobs the the sound i think the air conditioning is running so uh trying to turn

[0:25:11] Trustee Patrick: up the sound is it up try again director moms how's this i'll try to speak up nice i think

[0:25:22] Trustee Patrick: it's better but we'll try to keep increasing it that's it that's so do your best okay

[0:25:29] Voice 8: i will speak loudly um the usual timelines uh for the budget would be business cases being

[0:25:38] Voice 8: developed by local trust committees and all of the trust council bodies uh now actually during

[0:25:43] Voice 8: our summer period and they would advance into the first draft of the budget uh in september which

[0:25:48] Voice 8: financial planning committee reviews in October again in November and then trust council sees the

[0:25:53] Voice 8: first draft of the budget in December so if business cases were to be drafted for next year's

[0:26:01] Voice 8: budget they would be drafted starting now and they would be seen by council in December through to

[0:26:08] Voice 8: March if we were to not focus on those initiatives for the upcoming budget cycle then that would be

[0:26:15] Voice 8: delayed into next year's budget cycle I think that answers the question if not I can certainly

[0:26:20] Voice 8: provide more info thank you

[0:26:22] Voice 27: okay so

[0:26:29] Trustee Patrick: I'm trustee Evans did you be the next did

[0:26:36] Voice 21: you want to speak

[0:26:40] Voice 12: Ready. Thanks. So I have a couple of questions and requests, I guess. So out of the project timelines that are currently highlighted in green, and of those we're aiming to try and get a number of them completed before the end of our term,

[0:27:01] Voice 12: if the business cases were put forward and initiated next year,

[0:27:09] Voice 12: does that push the timeline on any of those projects?

[0:27:13] Voice 12: Will some of those projects need to be removed in order to make way

[0:27:17] Voice 12: for the new business case projects?

[0:27:21] Voice 12: And then my suggestion is renaming that column either to business cases

[0:27:28] Voice 12: being initiated and then put in the year that it would have to be initiated

[0:27:31] Voice 12: versus this is when the project is to be initiated

[0:27:35] Voice 12: because we haven't made a decision

[0:27:37] Voice 12: as to whether or not we are going to move ahead

[0:27:39] Voice 12: with that project yet.

[0:27:40] Voice 12: So by saying that in a strategic plan,

[0:27:42] Voice 12: we've predetermined that decision.

[0:27:44] Voice 12: So I would prefer to see

[0:27:45] Voice 12: that the business case initiation year

[0:27:48] Voice 12: be put in there versus the project start date

[0:27:51] Voice 12: because we haven't yet determined

[0:27:53] Voice 12: whether we're going to move forward with that project.

[0:27:55] Voice 12: Thank you.

[0:27:56] Voice 12: Yeah,

[0:27:57] Voice 7: yeah, thank you for that question.

[0:27:59] Voice 7: I think there are some where, and so that was the conversation at RPC was, well, if we were to delay even doing the business case until next year, that actually would be a challenge because the intent was for to actually start the work next year.

[0:28:17] Voice 7: And so I think if we were to defer the business case on some of those, it would defer progress on the work, obviously.

[0:28:24] Voice 7: and as I say the the assumption on staff's part was that business cases for those items would

[0:28:31] Voice 7: be coming forward this year and it's incumbent on us in presenting those business cases for you

[0:28:37] Voice 7: to do that assessment of what are the interdependencies what would be the trade-offs

[0:28:42] Voice 7: and any impact this might have and what is the project time anticipated project timeline for

[0:28:48] Voice 7: those projects yet to be initiated so those blue ones but again it was always our understanding

[0:28:54] Voice 7: that we would be working on the green ones already and or beginning work on those and preparing

[0:29:01] Voice 7: business cases for the blue ones and the blue ones just need to take into account the impact

[0:29:06] Voice 7: of the work that is needed on the green ones if that makes sense so we should be doing that

[0:29:10] Voice 7: assessment for you um and i think again it's you've you've determined that this is work that

[0:29:16] Voice 7: that you want to go ahead and our understanding was that you wanted it to start going ahead next

[0:29:22] Voice 7: year and so you still have the ability to decide based on the advice that staff bring you in those

[0:29:29] Voice 7: business cases and their assessment whether or not you still want to proceed out of timeline or

[0:29:33] Voice 7: whether or not you want to defer it and then that could come forward as a decision of the responsible

[0:29:36] Voice 7: committee and come back here to trust council and say you know what as a committee we are recommending

[0:29:41] Voice 7: that blue item become a red item because we think it just should be delayed and it's more important

[0:29:46] Voice 7: that we have focused on other priorities so and and again we have you have the latitude

[0:29:50] Voice 7: as trust counsel the strategic plan is a document that you can review and amend

[0:29:55] Voice 7: at trust counsel's decision right so you can

[0:30:00] Voice 7: at any point assess any of these and determine we want to we can defer that or we want to accelerate

[0:30:04] Voice 7: this one um and put items on take items off it's entirely within your decision-making

[0:30:10] Voice 7: ability to do that

[0:30:11] Trustee Patrick: trustee fast oh sorry uh

[0:30:15] Voice 12: my question was could we rename the blue column to be

[0:30:21] Voice 12: so that it's uh business cases to be initiated 25 26 or whatever year it is for clarity so we can

[0:30:28] Voice 12: can avoid this, especially if we've got a new incoming council happening relatively?

[0:30:35] Voice 7: Yeah, we can certainly do that. As I say, for us, that was the implication. But if that helps to

[0:30:40] Voice 7: clarify that, we can make that adjustment. And I think what I'm hearing is generally the

[0:30:46] Voice 7: understanding is that our initial interpretation was accurate, in which case I don't think I need

[0:30:51] Voice 7: formal direction from you. We will just proceed as we assumed. It was only if we were going to be

[0:30:56] Voice 7: actually deferring these items a year that we would need a direction to clarify that and again

[0:31:02] Voice 7: now the decision on whether or not to proceed with any of those individual projects will happen at

[0:31:06] Voice 7: the at the appropriate committee level this just gives us the clarity that to direct your mom's

[0:31:11] Voice 7: point we need to get to work on those business cases where we haven't already initiated it

[0:31:15] Voice 7: and try to advance those to you as as soon as possible within our regular process trustee fast

[0:31:24] Voice 22: Thank you. With what I've just heard the CAO say, as chair of the Financial Planning Committee, I look forward to seeing those business cases come forward in the fall and so that we can proceed with the work. I think it's a good conversation to have, but I'm happy. Let's move forward. Thank you.

[0:31:41] Voice 22: All

[0:31:43] Trustee Patrick: right. Any further questions? I'm sorry.

[0:31:46] Trustee Patrick: Was there other questions? Trustee Bernardo, was your hand up?

[0:31:49] Trustee Patrick: No, sorry. I was just shaking a pen.

[0:31:51] Trustee Patrick: Okay. So we had three items here under the executive, which was 10.1.1, 10.1.2, and 10.1.3.

[0:32:01] Trustee Patrick: Just checking. Were there any further questions on any of those items?

[0:32:05] Trustee Patrick: Oh, let me give you a moment.

[0:32:10] Trustee Patrick: That included the continuous learning plan.

[0:32:12] Trustee Patrick: plan. Were there any questions? That would be through

[0:32:18] Trustee Patrick: to 129 would be the last page.

[0:32:25] Trustee Patrick: Waiting a moment. That would be okay. Okay. Sorry. I just wanted to make sure everyone had a chance.

[0:32:48] Trustee Patrick: So with that, can we approve those three items through general consent? Excellent. I see we're

[0:32:55] Trustee Patrick: getting close to lunch. So I think it's a good time to sort of set up the next conversation

[0:33:00] Trustee Patrick: conversation so that we could be ready to uh to proceed after lunch and that is uh 10 to 1 which

[0:33:05] Trustee Patrick: is the uh the letter from minister uh kaylin on page 130 of your agenda package um seeing our

[0:33:15] Trustee Patrick: conversations we had this morning i think we we um see how brony and i had discussed how to

[0:33:20] Trustee Patrick: to proceed with this conversation and i think it's going to be a bit of an informal conversation

[0:33:24] Trustee Patrick: conversation for the beginning. What this, as you know, we responded to the letter requesting,

[0:33:32] Trustee Patrick: recognizing that he had just said no to the review, but we still asked that we have a

[0:33:38] Trustee Patrick: meeting directly with the minister to have conversations. This is our opportunity. You

[0:33:45] Trustee Patrick: know that our strategic plan, which we just talked about, had a priority of responding to

[0:33:49] Trustee Patrick: to the review when the response came back.

[0:33:54] Trustee Patrick: So what I'd like to do is I'm going to do an alphabetical review when we

[0:33:59] Trustee Patrick: come back to go around the room and talk about in particular,

[0:34:03] Trustee Patrick: the review, are there next steps?

[0:34:05] Trustee Patrick: Are there things that we could be doing or should be doing in regard to

[0:34:11] Trustee Patrick: the review or are there other elements of the letter that you believe is an

[0:34:15] Trustee Patrick: element of work that we need to discuss?

[0:34:17] Trustee Patrick: Yes. So I'm going to be asking each of you to reflect if you have some particular idea on what you think needs to be done next.

[0:34:28] Trustee Patrick: And then after we do a round of the room, we'll see. Is there some distinct next steps that are obvious or we're not in a hurry?

[0:34:38] Trustee Patrick: I want to make sure this is not a we have to respond or do anything in particular.

[0:34:43] Trustee Patrick: particular it's to understand what our options are if there is some work related to that and

[0:34:48] Trustee Patrick: how best to proceed with that work is that something we want a committee to work on or

[0:34:53] Trustee Patrick: is there something distinct that we we as a group agree on so uh I think that's that's how I'm

[0:35:00] Trustee Patrick: proposing that we deal with the conversation when we come back from lunch we have 10 minutes we

[0:35:05] Trustee Patrick: could start now if we'd like uh to say O'Brien thank

[0:35:09] Voice 7: you chair yeah maybe I'll just comment uh

[0:35:11] Voice 7: briefly on the brief that we attached to that letter.

[0:35:14] Voice 7: And Vice Chair Peterson noted that there are a number of items in the strategic plan

[0:35:19] Voice 7: where we connected some dots between the minister's letter.

[0:35:22] Voice 7: To be clear, we're not necessarily recommending that any changes are needed to those items.

[0:35:27] Voice 7: It just seemed to staff that those would be the strategic plan initiatives

[0:35:31] Voice 7: where there may be an intersection between the direction from the minister,

[0:35:35] Voice 7: in particular around the provincial review and how that ties to things like the governance review

[0:35:40] Voice 7: review and and some of the other work where we wanted to flag that there might be an intersection

[0:35:44] Voice 7: whether or not um you feel that impacts the the work or the scope or the timing of any of those

[0:35:50] Voice 7: initiatives is is open for your discussion but we just thought it was useful to maybe highlight

[0:35:56] Voice 7: those as some where we see a natural intersection um obviously some more directly than others like

[0:36:01] Voice 7: the follow-up on the response to the the provincial review um but I think there's a there's a potential

[0:36:07] Voice 7: connection to things like the governance review as well but again though and i also don't think

[0:36:11] Voice 7: any decision needs to be made about necessarily any of those specific items today we just wanted

[0:36:17] Voice 7: to put that forward for consideration thank you so

[0:36:21] Trustee Patrick: with that if i have your agreement on how we

[0:36:23] Trustee Patrick: can proceed we can either break for lunch early or we could start alphabetically we've got a few

[0:36:28] Trustee Patrick: more minutes break for lunch early is that when i'm you want to go ahead and start okay we'll

[0:36:34] Trustee Patrick: start it's uh 11 51 and of course we start alphabetically i'm looking over at trustee allen

[0:36:41] Trustee Patrick: and you have you can pass yep i

[0:36:48] Voice 19: have some comments um i keep on going back to the 1982 strategic

[0:36:53] Voice 19: regional plan and and how we're just spinning around back and forth about the mandate and it

[0:36:59] Voice 19: just frustrates me completely and um we have it right there it says it says social goals it says

[0:37:06] Voice 19: environmental goals it's all there in that regional plan that came out years ago what are we doing

[0:37:12] Voice 19: here right now we keep on going back and forth every every new trust trust council and um why

[0:37:19] Voice 19: can't we just do our work and just get on with it it's just uh like if you look at the 1982 strategic

[0:37:23] Voice 19: plan it's a it's got it all it's got the environmental it's got social and it says

[0:37:30] Voice 19: settlements not housing but it's still it's still got it all there so i just don't understand why we

[0:37:35] Voice 19: are going on and on, and I can see how the province is frustrated with us

[0:37:39] Voice 19: because we just are spinning our wheels, and I wish we just stopped

[0:37:43] Voice 19: spinning our wheels.

[0:37:45] Trustee Patrick: Thank you. Trustee Bernardo?

[0:37:50] Voice 11: I'd appreciate the opportunity to collect my thoughts for after lunch.

[0:37:54] Trustee Patrick: That's fair. Trustee Boland?

[0:37:59] Voice 15: To be honest, I feel the same

[0:38:00] Voice 15: because I wasn't expecting to go alphabetically, so I'd rather break

[0:38:04] Voice 15: for lunch.

[0:38:06] Trustee Patrick: We'll keep going down the list. We'll return

[0:38:08] Trustee Patrick: turn back to you. Trustee Borthwick. I'll pass.

[0:38:22] Trustee Patrick: All right. Do you want a break for lunch? I'm seeing. All right. Now we want a break for lunch.

[0:38:28] Trustee Patrick: Pressure's on. Okay. So I appreciate everyone breaking for lunch and we're going to have a

[0:38:32] Trustee Patrick: speaker at one o'clock. And so you'll have lots of time to collect your thoughts and be well

[0:38:37] Trustee Patrick: all prepared when we come back to this topic and thank you and enjoy lunch

[1:41:37] Voice 26: Okay,

[1:41:38] Voice 25: so

[1:41:40] Voice 26: I'm trying

[1:41:42] Voice 25: to figure out why my zoom has gone all weird on me. Okay, so, all right.

[1:42:09] Voice 21: No, that means the locality.

[1:42:24] Voice 21: Which one is

[1:42:36] Voice 21: I thought they were.

[1:42:58] Voice 26: good

[1:45:06] Trustee Patrick: afternoon trustees good afternoon we can bring our attention back in the room

[1:45:12] Trustee Patrick: hope everyone had a good lunch and are ready i'm going to introduce our senior indigenous

[1:45:22] Trustee Patrick: relations advisor joe elliott if you haven't had a chance to meet with joe i'm hoping you

[1:45:28] Trustee Patrick: do spend some time with joe joe is helping support and work with us to really build

[1:45:36] Trustee Patrick: the cultural safety as we work toward our relationships with First Nations and

[1:45:44] Trustee Patrick: with that I'm going to turn the podium first over to Joe to introduce our special

[1:45:47] Trustee Patrick: speaker today. I think

[1:45:52] Voice 33: you know it's a really appreciation for an opportunity

[1:45:54] Voice 33: to travel across the waters with that with my relative. Not too many times we

[1:46:01] Voice 33: have people that are from our communities and you know they live a

[1:46:04] Voice 33: a busy life they're they're up front they're they're they're facilitating and making change

[1:46:09] Voice 33: and being a voice for our first nation people and our families and our our our communities

[1:46:15] Voice 33: we know that everywhere i went in the time that i got on the vehicle with our my relative here

[1:46:21] Voice 33: it was known everywhere so you know it's a much appreciation to have that you know just to spend

[1:46:28] Voice 33: that time and to share some who we are as as people because we never get a chance to do that

[1:46:33] Voice 33: So I had a chance to sit down with my relative, Jared, and talk about history.

[1:46:40] Voice 33: And at the time, I'd known that Jared, you know, being sharing about food sovereignty,

[1:46:45] Voice 33: being sharing about knowledge.

[1:46:47] Voice 33: And it's much more than just being a chef or sharing knowledge.

[1:46:51] Voice 33: He has much more knowledge in regards to how he carries himself.

[1:46:55] Voice 33: And learning about the humility and how he carries himself as Comal people,

[1:46:59] Voice 33: I witnessed that in our travel with Jared.

[1:47:02] Voice 33: and knowing that he could have been carried a lot of different responsibilities in our culture

[1:47:08] Voice 33: but he chose to be he chose to look after his children and his family as a priority

[1:47:16] Voice 33: and then he continued on with some of his teachings and carried on to be responsible

[1:47:21] Voice 33: and be a voice and educator for our people so i'd like to um introduce

[1:47:27] Voice 33: introduce to share who he is to share some of his knowledge on traditional foods and some of the

[1:47:38] Voice 33: knowledge regards to our connection to the islands and i was able just to share some of my

[1:47:43] Voice 33: my family name and he was able to know the history so he carries so amongst lots of knowledge and

[1:47:51] Voice 33: much appreciation and i think it's a great opportunity to let jared share who he is

[1:47:56] Voice 33: and the knowledge that he has.

[1:47:57] Voice 33: So, how do you feel?

[1:47:58] Voice 33: Is there room for water up here?

[1:48:11] Voice 3: Oh, my young son on the edge of the river,

[1:48:13] Voice 3: like we just heard, that's where I want to be all the time.

[1:48:30] Voice 4: I'm going to get the next slide.

[1:48:41] Voice 4: Who am I anyway?

[1:49:01] Voice 4: can we get the next slide if i was at home all the others would say ah that's just about you

[1:49:06] Voice 4: who are you anyway if you've ever worked in any of our home communities they don't want to know

[1:49:11] Voice 4: your name well you know the chances they are but they also want to know who is your mom

[1:49:15] Voice 4: who's her mom who is her mom where are they from what's their home village even if it's all the

[1:49:20] Voice 4: way in you know like europe that's okay that's what they want to know they want to know who you

[1:49:27] Voice 4: belong to a lot of our homes a lot of our lives revolve around upholding our families when i was

[1:49:35] Voice 4: very small i learned quite frequently that what i do how i act and how i am is a reflection on my

[1:49:42] Voice 4: family the words that were used to remind me of that were not as easy as the ones i'm using with

[1:49:47] Voice 4: you but I hope that you can hear it that when those young ones act out of line as I often used

[1:49:52] Voice 4: to never uh but you know it's been a long time I haven't acted out of line in a long time but the

[1:49:58] Voice 4: elders would always remind you that when you act like that you are a reflection of the adults in

[1:50:02] Voice 4: your life and so we're constantly walking this road to highlight the strength of the ones who

[1:50:09] Voice 4: raised us um i i need to ensure two things here number one i need to ensure that when you hear

[1:50:19] Voice 4: anything out of the lips that i have here that you will hear from you understand that those words are

[1:50:24] Voice 4: not mine i do not own all the knowledge that i hold i do not want to act like i went out and i

[1:50:30] Voice 4: hand, you know, learned all of this. I worked with several elders, and I've read several

[1:50:40] Voice 4: books, probably more elders than I have actually read any, you know, books, but all this like

[1:50:48] Voice 4: knowledge is theirs. And this is a reality that we don't often hear in the Western world.

[1:50:55] Voice 4: I want to acknowledge that I just wear this knowledge. I don't own it. Anything here from

[1:51:00] Voice 4: me you is is as a result of their hard work especially when i'm starting to walk through

[1:51:05] Voice 4: the traditional names the traditional foods the harvesting practices i didn't always harvest you

[1:51:14] Voice 4: know these you know traditional foods this is what i've heard this is how i i was raised and so i use

[1:51:20] Voice 4: these words these homelands from the knowledge i've learned from the elders and so i just wanted

[1:51:26] Voice 4: to to leave a space here because in our homes in our our long houses and and in our way we want to

[1:51:34] Voice 4: acknowledge the ancestors in the room if you look here this is only three generations and already

[1:51:41] Voice 4: i've got uh you know 12 or 13 ancestors there and if you keep heading up the generations you can

[1:51:48] Voice 4: reach up into thousands and we all have thousands of ancestors that work in order to to literally

[1:51:54] Voice 4: really like design who we are i use the line the nose on my face belongs to my grandfather that's

[1:52:01] Voice 4: why it looks like this i i never chose it it was chosen the language i use is a result of what

[1:52:08] Voice 4: happened in this world it's not the language i chose so many things we have are a result of our

[1:52:15] Voice 4: ancestry and ancestors and we highlight constantly that wherever we are wherever we are the ancestors

[1:52:24] Voice 4: are also there with us everywhere we walk and you know like a lot of people would say

[1:52:29] Voice 4: that's a bit uh spiritual and if that's too spiritual for you look into your genetics and

[1:52:37] Voice 4: you'll understand we were not lying everywhere you go your ancestors are walking with you whether

[1:52:42] Voice 4: you like it or not yeah

[1:52:44] Voice 30: and

[1:52:45] Voice 4: so i want to acknowledge all of the ancestors that are here

[1:52:49] Voice 4: in the room at home in our homes we would highlight that there are never any empty seats

[1:52:53] Voice 4: every like seat is being held by one of our ancestors that is here witnessing and watching

[1:52:59] Voice 4: and we should act uh accordingly and so i want to uh share our traditional uh remembrance

[1:53:07] Voice 4: uh um song out of respect uh uh um for them see i'm gonna see yeah okay next slide

[1:56:30] Voice 4: I don't know about you but I was raised with a lot of lies the home I was raised in I heard

[1:56:38] Voice 4: all about indigenous agriculture I heard all about our traditional economics I heard all about how

[1:56:44] Voice 4: How we looked after land, how we owned land, whose land was whose, which family owned, which we are, all that stuff.

[1:56:54] Voice 4: And then I went to school and I heard that we were hunter-gatherers.

[1:56:58] Voice 4: We had no agriculture.

[1:57:00] Voice 4: We had no aquaculture.

[1:57:02] Voice 4: We didn't own land and that we had no form of governance.

[1:57:08] Voice 4: As if we were just kind of all randomly wandering in the woods, wondering which way was up until everybody else arrived here to help us.

[1:57:15] Voice 4: I want to make sure that when you leave this room, you know that all that wasn't true.

[1:57:21] Voice 4: So I'm going to make a laugh a couple of times, hopefully, too.

[1:57:26] Voice 4: So can we have the next slide?

[1:57:28] Voice 4: Something that I think we should start from is where it all started.

[1:57:34] Voice 4: when we travel to europe and i i have i've got uh strong relatives and and relations from holland

[1:57:42] Voice 4: and scotland so i've obviously went there myself and obviously heard a lot of european lore we

[1:57:49] Voice 4: probably all heard of individuals like hercules and like thor and zeus and probably jesus and

[1:57:58] Voice 4: heard about all their lives and their histories and their actions and what they did and where

[1:58:02] Voice 4: they lived and how they lived and la la la la la how many of us heard about the heroes and lore

[1:58:08] Voice 4: and mythology from here very few

[1:58:12] Voice 4: it's very strange to me that we live here and we still speak of

[1:58:15] Voice 4: heroes from the old land it's time we start recognizing that all of those heroes they're all

[1:58:21] Voice 4: we have our own versions of those histories our own versions of all of those stories and i want

[1:58:27] Voice 4: to hand you one example of them here today so that you can understand what i'm referencing land and

[1:58:32] Voice 4: and specific names, that it's not, you know, it's not a word.

[1:58:38] Voice 4: It's like a feeling.

[1:58:42] Voice 4: This is our story of Swakas.

[1:58:45] Voice 4: So in our ancestry, the elders here would highlight that when they heard about, you know, Adam and Eve,

[1:58:52] Voice 4: they'd laugh because they said Adam and Eve were thrown out of the Garden of Eden.

[1:58:57] Voice 4: We were never thrown out.

[1:58:59] Voice 4: We've never left.

[1:59:00] Voice 4: We live where we originally arrived and never left it.

[1:59:02] Voice 4: our very first ancestor who arrived here his name was Stutson everybody with me say it Stutson

[1:59:10] Voice 4: Stutson it's an easy word don't worry there'll be harder ones later Stutson Stutson they say fell

[1:59:16] Voice 4: from the sky or was uh you know gently lowered down onto the very top of what is now colonally

[1:59:23] Voice 4: known as Mount uh Prevost which is in this you know visual here Stutson he walked this land alone

[1:59:30] Voice 4: He had no friends. He had no relatives. He had no one to spend it with. He walked all the way through the valley underneath the mountain to the ocean. He went on all these islands. The only one he could speak to was who we called Tzitz SCM. Don't worry, I won't make you say that one. Tzitz SCM is our word for the creator.

[1:59:51] Voice 4: And he'd be, you know, always asking him, you know, for why he's here, what he needs to do, where he needs to walk, what he needs.

[2:00:00] Voice 4: learn and after years because that's in and he's you know like legends he lived for hundreds of

[2:00:09] Voice 4: years after many many years he asked um i need a friend i need someone to share this world with

[2:00:21] Voice 4: there was no answer from ccm so studson walked again and he walked all the way up to the very

[2:00:28] Voice 4: very top of Swapes Mountain again, or what's colonially known now as Mount Prevost.

[2:00:33] Voice 4: And on his way up there, he saw a small cave, one he'd never realized was there in all the

[2:00:43] Voice 4: years he'd wandered around the mountain.

[2:00:45] Voice 4: So he wanted to look inside.

[2:00:47] Voice 4: So he wandered inside all the way to where the light ends, and it was just all the way

[2:00:52] Voice 4: black.

[2:00:53] Voice 4: But he just walked more and more.

[2:00:55] Voice 4: and he walked in there until he heard another animal in there and in the very beginning he was

[2:01:03] Voice 4: afraid but as the others would say then he remembered he was

[2:01:07] Voice 4: that's in a lot of our legends he's not afraid of anything so he remembered he was that's in

[2:01:13] Voice 4: and slowly he reversed his way out of the cave until he was in the light and he could actually

[2:01:19] Voice 4: look upon what was in there and it was a very small dog and this demolished dog

[2:01:29] Voice 4: ran up to him and licked him it was the new friend that had been directly sent

[2:01:35] Voice 4: from seats FCM this small dog had one specific issue its neck was crooked in a

[2:01:46] Voice 4: a way that could only ever look up up at the sky to have a problem with your neck in our language

[2:01:53] Voice 4: is to be swakas swakas so stutson he named the dog swakas after it's swakas and in our legends

[2:02:05] Voice 4: there are many stories about stutson and swakas and they go all around the valley they go to all

[2:02:11] Voice 4: the islands swuck this eventually you know finds other dogs and has a really happy life but they're

[2:02:17] Voice 4: always with each other and after many years as they do swuck us he actually eventually began to

[2:02:24] Voice 4: get old and nobody ever wants to lose those young um fur children that we have and it was hard for

[2:02:31] Voice 4: anybody even hard for studson so when swuckus was old that's and walked him and probably had

[2:02:38] Voice 4: had to help him all the way up to the very top of what is now known as mount praval and they

[2:02:44] Voice 4: stood on the very top of the mountain and that's where swaka spent his last

[2:02:54] Voice 4: evening as a living animal on this like earth and swak and dutson was very sad and he sang songs and

[2:03:03] Voice 4: And he did all of the rituals that we now do for when we lose other human relatives, as this was his only friend.

[2:03:13] Voice 4: And he left Swakas up on the very top of that mountain right in between the two hills on the top.

[2:03:24] Voice 4: And so now what our elders would highlight is literally thousands of years later, when we look up there, we say Swakas.

[2:03:32] Voice 4: so when the Europeans arrived and they said what's the name of that and they went like this

[2:03:38] Voice 4: we said Swakas and so it's been written that Swakas is the name of that space but what I'm

[2:03:45] Voice 4: trying to highlight is that we didn't name it Swakas we looked up there and we remembered Swakas

[2:03:50] Voice 4: it wasn't just the name of a rock it was the whole history it was that ancestry

[2:03:57] Voice 4: history story it was that link to who we are it was a link to dutson and now we know it is

[2:04:05] Voice 4: mount pravost i sure hope everybody because you have to work in this space you understand that

[2:04:12] Voice 4: admiral james uh uh uh uh uh uh uh bravo was only here for you know like a year or less

[2:04:22] Voice 4: He helped resolve the war on the San Juan Islands, and then left, and he now has his name on one island, and a mountain, and a lake, and a few other things, and even there are a few islands that were the names of his children.

[2:04:37] Voice 4: I think it's Annabelle Island, and there's another island there, too.

[2:04:41] Voice 4: So, look what happens when we change something as small as a name from Swapas to Mount Prevost.

[2:04:50] Voice 4: so can I get the next slide please so that's the strength of our history that's the strength of

[2:05:00] Voice 4: these like names every name on our land only is from three things it's either what happened on

[2:05:11] Voice 4: that land like Swakas and Anne's ancestral story what happened or it's what the land looks like

[2:05:19] Voice 4: There's a space in the lower Cauchon River named Homuxinum, which means the nose.

[2:05:27] Voice 4: There's a huge rock, looks like a nose.

[2:05:29] Voice 4: Pretty easy to understand why we'd name that place the nose.

[2:05:33] Voice 4: There's another space in our homeland in Chicago called E'e'e, which means salal harvesting.

[2:05:40] Voice 4: I wonder what we were doing there.

[2:05:42] Voice 4: Probably harvesting salal berries.

[2:05:45] Voice 4: So those are the only three reasons we would hand anything a name.

[2:05:48] Voice 4: nobody named anything after themselves no one named anything after any of their heroes or you

[2:05:55] Voice 4: know their last names or whatever it was it's all what happened there in the ancestral like legends

[2:06:02] Voice 4: what was being harvested there or what the land literally looks like and in that way I should

[2:06:10] Voice 4: highlight that not all islands were named there were islands that were named normally smaller

[2:06:16] Voice 4: smaller islands that were not long-term inhabited. I'm not going to ask you to raise your hand,

[2:06:21] Voice 4: but I wanted to ask you in your mind, how many of you know the traditional name for this island?

[2:06:26] Voice 4: And I'm willing to bet there's at least one person in this room that'll say, oh yeah,

[2:06:29] Voice 3: I know

[2:06:29] Voice 4: the name. It's been quite frequently heard that the island's name is Chuan or Chuan.

[2:06:38] Voice 4: My elders, not me, once again, these are not words from here, they're from all those elders,

[2:06:44] Voice 4: would highlight that there was no traditional name for this island that the local um nations

[2:06:51] Voice 4: who recently arrived here and the non-indigenous who recently arrived here asked for the name of

[2:06:56] Voice 4: this island and our elders down at space now known as um cherry point so it's like

[2:07:02] Voice 4: they looked at the island from there and they said it's a wan

[2:07:07] Voice 4: T'lan is the name of Mount T'wam, and it means crashing down or diving, which is if you look at the edge of Mount T'wam, that's exactly how it is.

[2:07:29] Voice 4: so over three or four or five generations we have used that word to replace the the reality that we

[2:07:39] Voice 4: didn't have a name for this island there was no name for Vancouver Island a lot of islands didn't

[2:07:44] Voice 4: have names why wouldn't we name an island how many villages were on this island if you know that's

[2:07:49] Voice 4: great I don't even know there were lots there were many if you give the island one name you're

[2:07:55] Voice 4: choosing one language or one of the villages over any other village and that's rude well here's

[2:08:02] Voice 4: another example there's an island we're probably all familiar with it's colonally known as

[2:08:11] Voice 4: keeper island its new name is uh now if you look at that island uh i'll have one of our uh maps up

[2:08:22] Voice 4: up here in a bit but there were originally two villages on the island there was the village of

[2:08:27] Voice 4: uh panatlichatz and there was another village called wulemesa wulemesa so if you had both

[2:08:34] Voice 4: wulemesa and panatlichatz would you name the whole island only panatlichatz no that would be rude

[2:08:41] Voice 4: you might be wondering what happened to wulemesa if you get a chance maybe want to write it down

[2:08:46] Voice 4: look up the uh the battle at uh lamalchi bay m or l-a-m-a-l-c-h-i lamalchi lamalchi bay

[2:08:56] Voice 4: it was the only recorded um time that the uh the british royal navy tried to directly

[2:09:05] Voice 4: attack a first nations uh village here in our area and they lost and retreated and then when

[2:09:13] Voice 4: they returned we'd all fled so they crushed the village if you look at the map of that island now

[2:09:18] Voice 4: the entire island is reserved except for one spot one spot isn't reserved the village at willa mesa

[2:09:25] Voice 4: is not a reserve and has a very old church that i guess after they removed the village side it

[2:09:30] Voice 4: would be wise to put a church there just in order to make sure that didn't happen again

[2:09:35] Voice 4: So, Wollemelsa. A lot of your work, you probably will run into the descendants of Wollemelsa.

[2:09:45] Voice 4: As I referenced, the Wollemelsa had to retreat. So we went to Nanaimo, they went to

[2:09:53] Voice 4: Galliano, they went to a lot of these islands. So a lot of the inhabitants, a lot of the First

[2:09:57] Voice 4: Nations inhabitants of these islands can actually draw their ancestry to the village at Wollemelsa.

[2:10:03] Voice 4: um and and so that that leads me to one other aspect land arguing over land so ownership i

[2:10:15] Voice 4: referenced earlier that we had land ownership that's great absolutely we did they were harvesting

[2:10:19] Voice 4: areas and weirs so we had spaces where we would be growing uh um camas in large areas that would

[2:10:28] Voice 4: be specifically owned by certain families who had the right to harvest in those spaces and so they

[2:10:35] Voice 4: would they would harvest at their will and those spaces we even had spaces in those areas like in

[2:10:44] Voice 4: camas areas that were for the entire community so that could be where a lot of the confusion

[2:10:51] Voice 4: as to whether or not we had land ownership existed because we could always highlight

[2:10:54] Voice 4: light spaces where anybody could harvest so when the new arrivals would arrive and they wouldn't

[2:10:59] Voice 4: have anything to eat they wouldn't have anywhere to live we'd say oh well you know you're allowed

[2:11:02] Voice 4: to harvest here you're allowed to live there as if we just went oh anywhere over there and

[2:11:07] Voice 4: anywhere over there no no there were certain spaces where we would allow any new visitors

[2:11:13] Voice 4: to have a home where we would allow any new visitors to eat we were masters of hospitality

[2:11:18] Voice 4: we wanted everybody to be happy everybody to be welcome and even all these years afterwards i'm

[2:11:25] Voice 4: amazed at the incredible hospitality that you know our elders still share so then how does it lead

[2:11:35] Voice 4: into not arguing over land you'll probably encounter in your work the reality that a lot

[2:11:43] Voice 4: lot of nations are now going through the treaty process and these nations will have land that is

[2:11:51] Voice 4: within their treaty i was in a room frequently with a lot of elders and and one afternoon we

[2:12:00] Voice 4: were having a chat about one of our local tribes that was acquiring some of our islands and i say

[2:12:04] Voice 4: our islands as in all our islands not just our islands at home and the elders were saying oh

[2:12:11] Voice 4: yeah you know they're going to take this island for theirs and take that island and that's okay

[2:12:15] Voice 4: and there was another young individual there in the room with me and we got upset we're saying

[2:12:21] Voice 4: you know uncle you can't just let them take our islands that was ours what do you mean is theirs

[2:12:25] Voice 4: too it's just ours and he just says no no no and i i was all upset and he says well when's the last

[2:12:33] Voice 4: time you were there and i thought i had never gone to that island and he goes well they're there all

[2:12:39] Voice 4: the time i said but in our history that island was ours and he says and theirs reminding us that

[2:12:49] Voice 4: we had houses from one of our nations right next to other houses from another nation language

[2:13:00] Voice 4: groups could all have their houses all in a row you could have you know three languages within

[2:13:05] Voice 4: within 300 square feet because they're all in their own homes there was no arguing over while

[2:13:12] Voice 4: this is our village and that's your village we shared because we were all related when you

[2:13:19] Voice 4: referenced because i haven't really referenced it yet but our names as yes as i referenced at

[2:13:25] Voice 4: the beginning when they ask you who are you who's your mom who's her mom what they're trying to do

[2:13:30] Voice 4: was to learn how you're related that is a traditional practice here once you know how

[2:13:36] Voice 4: you're related you can't argue with that person they're your family you're not allowed to hurt

[2:13:41] Voice 4: them you're not allowed to be mean to them if they're older than you you have to listen even

[2:13:47] Voice 4: if you've never met them in your life that's your family that's how we reduced opportunity

[2:13:53] Voice 4: you know for war or for arguments was realizing how we were all so closely related so there was

[2:14:00] Voice 4: land ownership but it was houses own specific harvesting spaces other than that we all um

[2:14:09] Voice 4: a shared collective territory um in between our nations and the idea of you know i'm sanich and

[2:14:18] Voice 4: i'm couching and malahad and all these different things those are from the the indian act

[2:14:27] Voice 4: we didn't draw lines like that we didn't say well you're from sanich we'd say oh you're from that

[2:14:34] Voice 4: oh yeah that's where you know this person lives that's you know you know you know like my relative

[2:14:38] Voice 4: so we're obviously related these lines were all drawn through the indian act so the elders in

[2:14:45] Voice 4: that room helped me to understand we have to waste no like time arguing over land because we all had

[2:14:50] Voice 4: access we all owned and we all worked as one as a result of the fact that we were all one so

[2:14:58] Voice 4: So I just want to help with that fact.

[2:15:02] Voice 4: And I guess I can highlight, let's see, a little bit about food systems.

[2:15:11] Voice 4: Understanding that in spaces like Camas, like meadows, we would raise Camas.

[2:15:18] Voice 4: Pretty straightforward.

[2:15:19] Voice 4: We would eat it in areas where we'd eat Wapato.

[2:15:23] Voice 4: We'd be eating Wapato.

[2:15:24] Voice 4: We would eat the food directly from the land.

[2:15:26] Voice 4: I was referencing with a few individuals when I walked into the room that in this new world,

[2:15:31] Voice 4: we raise only four percent of the food that we eat on the island on the island in the traditional

[2:15:37] Voice 4: world we raised and ate a hundred percent of the like food we required from the island on the island

[2:15:44] Voice 4: which leads me to remind everybody and and also to remember that we don't often realize that just

[2:15:49] Voice 4: like the ancestors are always here with us that we are the land where does your food from the earth

[2:15:55] Voice 4: what does the food need to actually grow it needs the nutrients from the soil

[2:16:05] Voice 4: that head into the food that then you eat the nutrients from the earth head

[2:16:10] Voice 4: into you you would not exist without those nutrients you are just the earth

[2:16:13] Voice 4: walking on itself and we always try to remember that fact so that when we're

[2:16:18] Voice 4: out here we don't act like we're higher than anything else because we are all

[2:16:21] Voice 4: the same thing. Can I get the next slide? Span, root gardens, clam gardens, shell middens,

[2:16:33] Voice 4: these are all examples and leftover evidence where the land is reminding us of our use.

[2:16:43] Voice 4: So this is a span field, a McCamus field.

[2:16:52] Voice 4: McCamus doesn't just naturally live here in a happy way.

[2:16:56] Voice 4: It needs to be looked after.

[2:16:58] Voice 4: It needs to have a prescribed burn.

[2:17:03] Voice 4: You need to remove the highly invasive plants around it.

[2:17:09] Voice 4: Even the ones that are from here will slowly invade.

[2:17:13] Voice 4: Kammis meadows, this is not a scientific fact, so I don't want to go eating the earth, but

[2:17:26] Voice 4: the elders would highlight that they sweeten the earth, and so that all the other plants

[2:17:32] Voice 4: want to move into that space.

[2:17:34] Voice 4: space when the when we have these areas the uh douglas fir and uh snowberry will always try to

[2:17:44] Voice 4: invade if left alone within 100 or 200 years they would get gradually smaller until they didn't

[2:17:52] Voice 4: exist so then why do they exist at all they were looked after a lot of these spaces were

[2:18:01] Voice 4: intentionally expanded. I'm going to argue they were directly transplanted from northern Washington

[2:18:08] Voice 4: onto the islands and onto these lands so that we could use them to raise span. Span is our

[2:18:16] Voice 4: number one carbohydrate. You'll hear me say span. Just know I'm trying to say

[2:18:23] Voice 4: camas, but our word is span. The number one carbohydrate, it can grow as large as your

[2:18:29] Voice 4: or like fist and it can be harvested frequently and it is uh the governor um douglas and his men

[2:18:40] Voice 4: referred to it as the indian potato so if you're looking in it to any of the archives and they say

[2:18:47] Voice 4: we went up onto the beach and we saw indian potatoes that's what they're really talking

[2:18:52] Voice 4: about um cannabis is also high in something called inulin inulin regulates your blood sugar

[2:19:00] Voice 4: our home reserves have an incredible struggle with diabetes right now as a result of having

[2:19:07] Voice 4: lack of access to traditional foods this is literally our medicine you'll hear that all

[2:19:13] Voice 4: the time others say our food is our medicine literally it is our medicine wherever you would

[2:19:20] Voice 4: locate um at camas you're near a traditional village area and you're walking in a space of

[2:19:27] Voice 4: very highly complex indigenous agriculture and I say that because it's the truth we had

[2:19:33] Voice 4: agriculture we looked after this area we didn't just walk into it and harvest from it we knew

[2:19:39] Voice 4: how to look after year after year with spacing selective harvesting and cultural burns which

[2:19:48] Voice 4: is even evident in the dendrochronology of a lot of the oak trees in these spaces another example

[2:19:57] Voice 4: that you probably run into, especially on islands, is our shell middens. The edges of the majority of

[2:20:05] Voice 4: the islands are covered in shell middens. We can reach into them and yank out a shell that wrapped

[2:20:13] Voice 4: around a clam that my ancestors ate. That's how linked we are. Those are evidence of food

[2:20:24] Voice 4: production sites it's not just we found some clams we did some clams we threw the shells behind us

[2:20:31] Voice 4: and we walked on our way that you know probably happened once in a while but those spaces with

[2:20:38] Voice 4: those really deep strong shell middens are spaces where we would intentionally harvest vast amounts

[2:20:50] Voice 4: amounts of clams or other shellfish and use a traditional technique that we call athok you get

[2:20:57] Voice 4: a very large rock a lot of the edge of the ocean is you know like a big rock you would light a very

[2:21:02] Voice 4: large fire on that large rock and then you would actually move half of that or all of that like

[2:21:08] Voice 4: fire to half of the rock and the other half of the rock that's hot you would rest your shellfish on

[2:21:14] Voice 4: and they would heat up and you know they would open then you would hang all of those

[2:21:20] Voice 4: shellfish on a cedar line. Just got to add here that cedar is antimicrobial, antibacterial and

[2:21:28] Voice 4: antifungal. So it's completely food safe. So they would hang all of their shellfish on lines that

[2:21:38] Voice 4: would be hanging from trees that would then let that shellfish dry because it's way easier to

[2:21:47] Voice 4: to travel home with a whole lot of dried shellfish than fresh, unshucked shellfish.

[2:21:57] Voice 4: And so those spaces with that, you know, that huge rock I was, you know,

[2:22:03] Voice 4: like referencing where, you know, you have to move, you know,

[2:22:05] Voice 4: like the fire over to one side.

[2:22:07] Voice 4: Well, after all those shellfish are all the way ready,

[2:22:11] Voice 4: you've used them and you transfer all of that, like,

[2:22:14] Voice 4: like fire over to the other side again and use the other side to make more shellfish.

[2:22:19] Voice 4: And you just keep traveling one way to the next.

[2:22:23] Voice 4: And you can harvest enough to make a 4-meter high, 100-meter long, 20-meter wide shell middens

[2:22:36] Voice 4: that last for thousands of years, so a lot.

[2:22:40] Voice 4: And so those were harvesting areas.

[2:22:42] Voice 4: And in those areas, you may occasionally run into our crabapple trees.

[2:22:51] Voice 4: We tried to locate or transplant easily harvestable foods near those traditional food production

[2:23:00] Voice 4: sites so that we could eat while we were working on food.

[2:23:04] Voice 4: It makes wonderful sense.

[2:23:06] Voice 4: One of the technologies we use, which if you walk a little bit off the edge of the beach,

[2:23:12] Voice 4: and you get up into the edge of the woodlands, you'll find a lot of rocks covered in very thick, like, moss.

[2:23:19] Voice 4: Our word for that is cutsy. It's a harder word. Cutsy.

[2:23:26] Voice 4: But that really thick moss is a great home for camas and chocolate lily and wapato.

[2:23:35] Voice 4: And occasionally, if you're walking out in that land and you happen to locate a large rock with a bunch of moss

[2:23:40] Voice 4: and you look hard enough you will locate rocks that are covered in those three plants and i don't

[2:23:45] Voice 4: just mean the odd one here and there i mean like hundreds those were intentional root gardens

[2:23:52] Voice 4: wasn't an accident they don't naturally live like that if you've wandered in these woods at all

[2:23:56] Voice 4: you'll realize that you know like chocolate lilies are reasonably rare so is camas they're only kind

[2:24:05] Voice 4: of randomly here and there when you can locate hundreds of them in one spot not an accident

[2:24:12] Voice 4: a lot of those will exist near

[2:24:17] Voice 4: shell middens or survival caves if you've had any research into it's a wonderful book by chris

[2:24:24] Voice 4: uh the terror of the coast he references quite a few um survival uh uh caves in it a lot of those

[2:24:33] Voice 4: spaces would have traditional root gardens on them or very nearby so that if you had to hide

[2:24:40] Voice 4: into those spaces you you could eat you you could easily survive speaking of the elder uh willie

[2:24:48] Voice 4: seymour and les gmar but charlie they talk about hiding places and this is not hiding from enemies

[2:24:55] Voice 4: this is hiding from a storm quite often when we would be traveling on the ocean when the wind

[2:25:02] Voice 4: hits or the waves get too big you need to be able to hide away and so there's all of these like

[2:25:07] Voice 4: spaces that have root gardens and these like apple trees and these

[2:25:20] Voice 4: clam beds just because we needed to eat if we had to pop off the ocean can i get the next slide

[2:25:28] Voice 4: like i said where did i learn this from elders i know we're here to talk about um policy and here

[2:25:38] Voice 4: i am rambling about history if i if i was you which i'm not and heichka for that it's okay

[2:25:44] Voice 4: you guys have a lot of work to do i have a lot of work to do we got our own work it's good

[2:25:49] Voice 4: i would advise to create an elders advisory there needs to be space to hear what i'm referencing to

[2:25:57] Voice 4: you from the ones who helped hand it over to me because i don't know anything i know the smallest

[2:26:03] Voice 4: amount of what you know that man up there knows that's um less uh uh g marvin charlie

[2:26:12] Voice 4: i know a fraction of what the elders know and so maybe if you're working on a project or some

[2:26:19] Voice 4: you know restoration and you want to ask an elder it can be hard if you don't have an existing

[2:26:24] Voice 4: existing relationship. Having a quarterly or, you know, even, you know, like a monthly, you know,

[2:26:33] Voice 4: like a Zoom or whatever it is with one or two or three elders, you have a relationship. You can

[2:26:40] Voice 4: create a relationship where they understand what you're doing, why you're doing it, and then they

[2:26:44] Voice 4: they have space to help you understand where you are so these elders they know the places right

[2:26:56] Voice 4: like i i referenced the swakas versus mount provost i didn't hear that on the wind i heard

[2:27:03] Voice 4: it from an elder every one of these spaces here all of them have history like swakas all these

[2:27:12] Voice 4: these words right there's um uh is it up here uh shay shay shakam right there it's a huge history

[2:27:23] Voice 4: around that giant octopus monster lived there and huge you know legends about how he was you know

[2:27:33] Voice 4: undefeated which literally linked to uh right over there mount uh maxwell in the legend of

[2:27:43] Voice 4: um one of the the heroes in the legend requests that uh mount uh maxwell hunch over because it

[2:27:53] Voice 4: was way higher they say it was much higher and as as the legend worked out a massive giant who

[2:27:59] Voice 4: lives over in what's now known as um point roberts which was also in our traditional land there was

[2:28:05] Voice 4: no you know like imaginary line there saying it's in the us uh it used to be called uh

[2:28:11] Voice 4: after the uh giant who lived there whose name smacots he had to throw a massive rock and hit

[2:28:17] Voice 4: this octopus a creature at um and in order to hit it it had to go up and over mount uh maxwell so

[2:28:26] Voice 4: this uh one you know the hero had to ask you know uh you know the mountain um you know to hunch over

[2:28:34] Voice 4: over and obviously there's no octopus creature there anymore so it must have hunched over

[2:28:39] Voice 4: and so they threw the rock and they were able to execute his shakam but the name for mount

[2:28:44] Voice 4: maxwell is now metitzam hunching over a mountain so so many of these spaces are linked into our

[2:28:53] Voice 4: histories our stories and now when we're here i i was speaking to uh joe about this word stories

[2:29:02] Voice 4: When we hear that word in, like, English, we think, you know, like myths or, you know, like legends.

[2:29:11] Voice 4: In our language, we have two words.

[2:29:14] Voice 4: Kweyem.

[2:29:15] Voice 4: Kweyem is like a myth or a legend.

[2:29:18] Voice 4: And Yath.

[2:29:23] Voice 4: Yath.

[2:29:25] Voice 4: Yath is a history.

[2:29:27] Voice 4: The story of Swakas is not Kweyem.

[2:29:31] Voice 4: the elders would get violently angry if i called it they would say it's a a siyat which is our

[2:29:38] Voice 4: history the story of shakam is not it is siyat these are our histories when we look at it in

[2:29:48] Voice 4: this new world full of you know science and technology we can laugh it off and say oh that's

[2:29:52] Voice 4: a nice uh story never do that to an elder they'll walk out of that room and you'll be lonely and

[2:29:58] Voice 4: wonder why they left.

[2:30:00] Voice 4: Now, you know, those are our histories and having those elders here help us understand those histories and help us move ahead in a good way.

[2:30:11] Voice 4: Can we get the next slide, please?

[2:30:17] Voice 4: Oh, my baby. As you heard earlier, that's my life.

[2:30:20] Voice 4: If I was out there right now, I'd be happy as happy can be.

[2:30:23] Voice 4: I think we're looking at, I don't even know, maybe Purple Island.

[2:30:32] Voice 4: The ocean was our highway.

[2:30:33] Voice 4: way i hope that everybody here has a chance to stop walking on the land once in a while and start

[2:30:40] Voice 4: looking at the islands from the ocean you won't understand the land until you see it from the

[2:30:47] Voice 4: ocean we walk around on the island all the time and think oh yeah this is what this is what i know

[2:30:52] Voice 4: what it is where would you land a canoe would you land it on the rocky part would you land it where

[2:30:57] Voice 4: the rock just goes into the water like this or would you land it where there's some nice uh you

[2:31:00] Voice 4: You know, sandy places, places like Sun Oak or a colony known as Montague Harbour.

[2:31:15] Voice 4: Great place to land a canoe.

[2:31:16] Voice 4: There's even a small island for all of your visitors to hang out on.

[2:31:21] Voice 4: It's a great place.

[2:31:22] Voice 4: There would have obviously been a village there.

[2:31:24] Voice 4: It would have been a very active space.

[2:31:26] Voice 4: base. Another spot called Sea of Hatman. Sea of Hatman, I think. I think they call it Walker's

[2:31:35] Voice 4: Hook. I don't know. Here it's right here. If you've ever walked there, it's nice. If you've

[2:31:45] Voice 4: ever traveled there on a canoe, you'll see why it's nice for me. It's a giant sandy beach with

[2:31:54] Voice 4: an easily accessible harbor right behind it that can hide you from the wind and the waves

[2:31:58] Voice 4: you could put hundreds of canoes there and once you get up out of the ocean it's flat and grassy

[2:32:04] Voice 4: it's flat grassy now but if it was flat and grassy then we think what's going on there

[2:32:08] Voice 4: probably some chemists probably some other traditional you know food gardens right these

[2:32:13] Voice 4: spaces are much easier to understand from the ocean than they are from the land like you know

[2:32:20] Voice 4: know i don't want to get me wrong they are amazing from the land too but you can understand a whole

[2:32:25] Voice 4: new level of their value when you approach them from like the ocean like uh um purple island

[2:32:33] Voice 4: i'm gonna keep hassling that you know that old guy um purple um traditional names it's actually

[2:32:40] Voice 4: if you look at where there's um two names uh the the the main island because this is one of those

[2:32:45] Voice 4: on that actually has a name is uh translates to uh where you harvest uh seals wonder what we were

[2:32:55] Voice 4: doing there again very easy when you start looking at our traditional words to understand what's

[2:33:01] Voice 4: going on on the island if you've been to uh and you go through what's known i think it's called

[2:33:07] Voice 4: James Bay beautiful area for landing big sandy beach to land upon it's amazing

[2:33:17] Voice 4: that island would have been an amazing spot to hide away from you know like a

[2:33:22] Voice 4: Raider because you could hop on there and you could hide up in the hills it's

[2:33:26] Voice 4: very like you know like very rocky and very elite there's another island just

[2:33:33] Voice 4: off the edge, I think that's now called Annette Island off of Prevost. It's called

[2:33:39] Voice 4: Iquam. It means place of the whirlpools. So I wonder what was going on there. When you have a

[2:33:48] Voice 4: very low tide that wants to get to a very high tide very fast, you don't want to be trapped there

[2:33:53] Voice 4: in your canoe. Spaces like that. These islands are named after their access to the ocean and how

[2:34:01] Voice 4: how you'd use them from the ocean.

[2:34:02] Voice 4: This knowledge comes from spending time on the ocean.

[2:34:06] Voice 4: The ocean is an elder.

[2:34:09] Voice 4: If you've got an advisory committee that you want to get elders on,

[2:34:12] Voice 4: maybe spend some time on the ocean.

[2:34:14] Voice 4: Learn from that elder.

[2:34:15] Voice 4: It's going to teach you more than you'll learn from anything else.

[2:34:17] Voice 4: I've learned how to do a lot of things the wrong way on the ocean,

[2:34:21] Voice 4: I'll tell you that.

[2:34:22] Voice 4: I got trapped in some narrows because if you've ever gone through it,

[2:34:28] Voice 4: it does a flood tide and you can only go one way.

[2:34:31] Voice 4: and i went one way in 12 minutes and the other way took me approximately five hours but i did

[2:34:38] Voice 4: it but i did it um but just just understanding that right that that the water is an elder and

[2:34:46] Voice 4: helps us understand the land in ways we could never understand otherwise um it's

[2:34:56] Voice 31: odd there's

[2:34:58] Voice 4: a place also on here that you it's probably just actually over there it's called long harbor

[2:35:04] Voice 4: Once again, when we look at these new names, we think, okay, it's long and probably harbor there.

[2:35:10] Voice 4: That's great. I think that's where one of the ferries is. If you look on here, you probably

[2:35:17] Voice 4: wonder, how do you pronounce that word? It's . If you want to try, it's okay. If you don't,

[2:35:25] Voice 4: it's okay. means just halibut. Wonder what's in Long Harbor. Wonder what might

[2:35:34] Voice 4: It might not be in Long Harbor anymore because of the ferries.

[2:35:37] Voice 4: I wonder where they would have put those if they knew that it was named Sot.

[2:35:42] Voice 4: Right?

[2:35:42] Voice 4: How much do we learn when we work as one?

[2:35:44] Voice 4: How much can we move things so that what is there can thrive?

[2:35:48] Voice 4: Right?

[2:35:49] Voice 4: So much.

[2:35:50] Voice 4: So much.

[2:35:53] Voice 4: Can we get the other slide, please?

[2:35:55] Voice 4: Food.

[2:35:56] Voice 4: I heard that I had to make a little bit about food.

[2:35:59] Voice 4: People like food in this room.

[2:36:00] Voice 4: So I'll try to do a little bit of a talk about food.

[2:36:02] Voice 4: um i talked already about food um processing sites and and this need to highlight that this

[2:36:11] Voice 4: is like an example of one of them our smoke houses our traditional you know uh salmon

[2:36:18] Voice 4: harvesting techniques there are villages that were travel villages there's villages in uh

[2:36:27] Voice 4: um pender island between the north and the south of the islands on the inside there's there's an

[2:36:35] Voice 4: old village from our nation and there's another village on the north end of galliano island in

[2:36:43] Voice 4: i remember what the new name is is active pass um there we go there you go pull your past it

[2:36:51] Voice 4: It used to be called, oh, my old name just left me too.

[2:36:58] Voice 4: Anyway, those areas were villages that were used for harvesting sockeye.

[2:37:06] Voice 4: If you look into the history of how Cowichan was originally colonized,

[2:37:14] Voice 4: Governor Douglas realized he was heavily outmatched because we were much larger

[2:37:19] Voice 4: and so didn't know what to do until we started realizing that between june until uh late august

[2:37:26] Voice 4: our our whole villages almost all of them would be almost empty 99 percent of us would leave to go to

[2:37:34] Voice 4: the uh fraser to harvest the sockeye run on our way there we would stop at um the village shot

[2:37:42] Voice 4: um uh galiano and uh pender on our way there because the elders knew that the sake would

[2:37:52] Voice 4: actually travel like past one of those islands and then the other island and then into the river

[2:37:59] Voice 4: they knew where they were they knew when they would be there and that's when they would leave

[2:38:03] Voice 4: to go up on that harvest food was our currency we frequently when we talk about you know like

[2:38:14] Voice 4: indigenous communities we talk about economic reconciliation there is no indigenous economic

[2:38:21] Voice 4: success without indigenous food systems how many of you have eaten camas probably not many

[2:38:31] Voice 4: Oh, nice. There's one. How many of you have eaten our dried clams? Nice. One, two, three.

[2:38:38] Voice 4: How many have eaten our traditionally smoked dry fish? One, two, three, four. Great.

[2:38:45] Voice 4: Those were our money. It should be everybody in this room. If we had access to those spaces,

[2:38:55] Voice 4: we could have those again. Our number one, two, and three trade good were

[2:39:01] Voice 4: camas and dried clams and dried fish which have been uh located in the archaeological record as

[2:39:09] Voice 4: far east as calgary as far north as alaska and as far south as the interior of california

[2:39:16] Voice 4: we even had vast um trade networks that went all the way into idaho you can literally

[2:39:23] Voice 4: find dried um clam uh um evidence or like remains in museums in in idaho and so without this

[2:39:39] Voice 4: network we have no economy without this connection to the land we can't help the land and the land

[2:39:49] Voice 4: Land can't help us thrive.

[2:39:50] Voice 4: Remember what I said, we are the land walking upon ourselves.

[2:39:55] Voice 4: We, there's this, and you know, this is potentially how it worked here.

[2:40:00] Voice 4: I don't know how it works now, but there's this idea that I've heard a lot in this world

[2:40:03] Voice 4: called fortress conservation, where we want to look after land and nobody's allowed to

[2:40:10] Voice 4: go on that land.

[2:40:11] Voice 4: It's got to rewild.

[2:40:15] Voice 4: We're all the wild.

[2:40:16] Voice 4: wild we we quite often act like we're not the land thrived because we looked after it we thrived

[2:40:23] Voice 4: because we looked after the land we we created clam gardens we genetically selected the healthiest

[2:40:33] Voice 4: largest of the clams and transplanted them into these new areas where they would grow larger and

[2:40:39] Voice 4: healthier and then we would use the largest and healthiest of those and we would be transplanting

[2:40:43] Voice 4: that into a new clam garden over 3 000 years our traditional sakwa our uh uh butter clam actually

[2:40:51] Voice 4: tripled in size because we were genetically choosing the largest in order to reproduce

[2:40:57] Voice 4: larger clams makes perfect sense the land thrived we thrived along with it and i guess just lastly

[2:41:04] Voice 4: Firstly, on this slide, our food systems, everything that the original colonists were

[2:41:13] Voice 4: wowed by wasn't natural.

[2:41:16] Voice 4: They talk about when they rolled into Victoria and they didn't know where the ocean ended

[2:41:20] Voice 4: and the land began because of the blue camas flowers.

[2:41:26] Voice 4: It doesn't naturally live like that.

[2:41:28] Voice 4: We engineered that.

[2:41:29] Voice 4: When they rolled through the oceans and were amazed by how many salmon there were, that wasn't an accident.

[2:41:40] Voice 4: We genetically and selectively harvested them for thousands of years up to the level that they were thriving so hard

[2:41:48] Voice 4: that they were having trouble navigating their massive ships around the massive schools of salmon.

[2:41:53] Voice 4: to examine these food systems were the result of the ingenuity of those who lived here

[2:42:01] Voice 4: and so when we locate spaces like middens or like clam gardens or like

[2:42:11] Voice 4: gary oak reserves we're not just looking at history we're looking at options for our future

[2:42:18] Voice 4: can i get the next slide we don't often remember that we live in the same space that our answer

[2:42:27] Voice 4: that that like my like indigenous ancestors lived in we act like this was all new land and we just

[2:42:34] Voice 4: moved over here and here it is we eat like we live in france we eat like we can have avocados

[2:42:39] Voice 4: all year we we live with an expectation of opulence the lords and the ladies of the old

[2:42:50] Voice 4: world didn't even get access to half of what we eat now and we eat it all and we think i'm hungry

[2:42:56] Voice 4: i'm gonna go out and have you know like another hamburger where did the flour come from where did

[2:43:02] Voice 4: the hamburger come from where did the cheese come from three you know edges of the earth just to

[2:43:07] Voice 4: make you a three dollar burger right it's not going to last i don't i don't always want to end

[2:43:16] Voice 4: on that note but it's not going to last so something that i i'm actually doing is i am

[2:43:23] Voice 4: currently the chair for the indigenous advisory council to the provincial ministry of agriculture

[2:43:30] Voice 4: and food and something i constantly hear is that we're running out of water for agriculture

[2:43:36] Voice 4: We're not all the way out of water yet, but we're slowly running out of agricultural water, growing broccoli, growing tomatoes, growing food that's not from our province, not from our island, on our island and in our province, using waters from rain that we're slowly running out of too.

[2:44:02] Voice 4: yet we've got more humans that have to have access to water and have access to food

[2:44:07] Voice 4: you're looking after your islands trust your conservancy is looking after spaces that can

[2:44:16] Voice 4: be utilized to revolutionize our food system if you just open the door we could be eating

[2:44:24] Voice 4: eating the camas again we could be eating wapato again we could be eating okay

[2:44:33] Voice 3: soap

[2:44:34] Voice 4: berries was one of our traditional foods that we ate here for a thousand years it no longer

[2:44:37] Voice 4: exists why not it lived where humans like to live so a lot of our large urban areas now are directly

[2:44:47] Voice 4: on top of where places where it used to live on i'm gonna let you in on a little secret um

[2:44:51] Voice 4: Soap lilies, berries, they currently sell for over $40 a one-cup jar.

[2:45:00] Voice 4: Imagine if you could revitalize that in one of your spaces

[2:45:03] Voice 4: if you want to live for a little bit of extra money.

[2:45:04] Voice 4: Just grow some soap berries.

[2:45:06] Voice 4: Grow what was here.

[2:45:08] Voice 4: It could help everything.

[2:45:10] Voice 4: It could help us return to it.

[2:45:11] Voice 4: It needs no extra water.

[2:45:13] Voice 4: It needs no extra fertilizer.

[2:45:14] Voice 4: It just needs to know that you know where it's supposed to live.

[2:45:18] Voice 4: and when when i look at you know what i got up on the wall here these are our words for our

[2:45:25] Voice 4: generations anybody else notice how they loop when i was very young must have been like four or five

[2:45:34] Voice 4: i was introduced to my great-grandmother uh emily white from the nimel and she was she had to be

[2:45:44] Voice 4: like late 80s she's in a rocking chair and you know like i you know i'll always remember it

[2:45:50] Voice 4: she's in you know this room and she's smelled of whiskey and that's okay and yeah she's rocking

[2:45:57] Voice 4: in her chair and my uh grandmother says oh you gotta go say hi to your stop milk you gotta walk

[2:46:04] Voice 4: up to her son and you gotta say each of ios stop milk and then small you're small i go up to her

[2:46:10] Voice 4: and i said that oh each of ios stop milk and she leaned ahead in her chair and she looked down at

[2:46:16] Voice 4: me and hugged me and said oh she was my and i was her and the only objective i have in this world as

[2:46:28] Voice 4: you heard i'm always here to look after young ones i have is that one day i'll be that old one in a

[2:46:32] Voice 4: chair and that that young one's going to walk up to me and say oh and i'll hug them back even if

[2:46:39] Voice 4: that's their only memory of me they'll remember that word and that it's a loop and so wherever

[2:46:46] Voice 4: you are on that loop we can always make room for those other ones and that really means looking at

[2:46:54] Voice 4: things in a generational plan no more one-year plan no more five-year plan what about a three

[2:47:02] Voice 4: generation plan a four generation plan we keep creating one-year plans and five-year plans the

[2:47:09] Voice 4: The world is literally on fire.

[2:47:12] Voice 4: Enough now.

[2:47:14] Voice 4: It's a regeneration plan.

[2:47:15] Voice 4: How are you going to help them?

[2:47:17] Voice 4: What's that going to look like?

[2:47:18] Voice 4: How can we use what we have now to help those ones who are not here yet?

[2:47:21] Voice 4: The ones who one day will walk up to you and say,

[2:47:27] Voice 4: oh, hello, great-grandmother, or hello, great-grandfather.

[2:47:32] Voice 4: How can you make the world that you want now for them?

[2:47:36] Voice 4: Because we are not able to have it right now.

[2:47:37] Voice 4: but we can work toward it so i could be here all day rambling at you but i'm sure you have

[2:47:43] Voice 4: some questions and i want to leave a little bit of space for you to ask them so just okay next

[2:47:50] Voice 4: slide i just you know like i mean i just want to raise my hands to everybody and say oh hi

[2:47:54] Voice 4: and i want to leave some room for if you have any questions or i don't know if i already ran

[2:48:01] Voice 4: out of time that could be a thing too oh i have time wow i thought for sure i was going to run

[2:48:05] Voice 4: out real fast. Do we

[2:48:11] Trustee Patrick: have questions? This is not a group that's usually quiet. Okay trustee Boland.

[2:48:19] Voice 15: Thank you so much. So you know you practiced for agriculture along the coast. How far inland

[2:48:31] Voice 15: would you go and how would you what would you harvest? What would you do in those places? Thanks.

[2:48:38] Voice 4: Absolutely, sure. Span or our

[2:48:46] Voice 4: Camas is actually located as far inland as Hope and heads up to Kamloops and even up into lower

[2:48:58] Voice 4: Prince George area. Wapato prefers upper wetlands, so you're looking at like upper

[2:49:06] Voice 4: river or higher areas

[2:49:09] Voice 4: but will also live

[2:49:10] Voice 4: on wet rocky

[2:49:12] Voice 4: outcroppings as long as there's enough

[2:49:14] Voice 4: water.

[2:49:18] Voice 4: Squasam, also known as Husham,

[2:49:20] Voice 4: also known as Indian ice cream berries,

[2:49:22] Voice 4: also known as

[2:49:26] Voice 4: soap lily or soap berry.

[2:49:29] Voice 4: Here traditionally

[2:49:30] Voice 4: lived in spaces that are

[2:49:31] Voice 4: you know where, is it called

[2:49:36] Voice 4: Goldstream Heights that was one of the last spots where it was and now it's all houses but it likes

[2:49:42] Voice 4: high up spaces it likes rocky spaces and it's not afraid of a little bit of salt but it's it

[2:49:47] Voice 4: absolutely lives in in higher areas other inland agricultural products are the chocolate lily I

[2:49:56] Voice 4: I have located chocolate lily root gardens as high up as near the top of what's now known as Mount Zahalem and also up into areas near and around Yubo.

[2:50:12] Voice 4: so like um you know they're there um spaces on on the edge of the ocean that is that are

[2:50:19] Voice 4: frequently uh removed intentionally are are things like uh um the thok or uh the

[2:50:29] Voice 4: prickly bear cactus that was also one of our um our foods you uh i've heard that you eat it you

[2:50:35] Voice 4: know like a marshmallow obviously you want to you know like remove the outside of it you don't want

[2:50:40] Voice 4: want to eat all the spikes on its way down but uh yeah yeah so they yeah yeah yeah um you know

[2:50:47] Voice 4: be used everywhere i just go

[2:50:50] Trustee Patrick: trustee elliot first

[2:50:52] Voice 18: then trust me i just got um so you mentioned um

[2:50:57] Voice 18: a possible path for our islands trust and council to get guidance with an elders advisory council

[2:51:05] Voice 18: um and you travel in a lot of different circles a lot of different institutions is there an

[2:51:11] Voice 18: an example that you can give of an example a local government or a school board um that has a

[2:51:18] Voice 18: really good relationship with an elders advisory council and and that we might look to for for some

[2:51:25] Voice 18: example well

[2:51:27] Voice 4: these that's okay well um the easy example for me is that um our nation has has has

[2:51:36] Voice 4: a lot of them we have uh an elders advisory council for our language we have an elders advisory

[2:51:40] Voice 4: advisory council for our treaty process.

[2:51:42] Voice 4: We have an elders advisory council for our health team.

[2:51:46] Voice 4: On the outside of that,

[2:51:47] Voice 4: I know that the Island Health

[2:51:51] Voice 4: with their new hospital project

[2:51:54] Voice 4: has an indigenous advisory council

[2:51:59] Voice 4: that is comprised of elders and chiefs.

[2:52:05] Voice 4: I do know that the University of BC had an elders committee that they were using when they were working on a lot of their Indigenous education programs.

[2:52:23] Voice 4: So, you know, it's not, it's not, there's a fly in here.

[2:52:31] Voice 4: Yeah, yeah, shoe fly.

[2:52:34] Voice 4: Right between my eyes.

[2:52:35] Voice 4: um they're not everywhere because not everybody's willing to create those relationships but well

[2:52:43] Voice 4: also there was hulk meet them lens and resources um society which also had another vice and i

[2:52:47] Voice 4: believe uh the gulf islands national park reserve worked with quite a few elders i don't know if

[2:52:52] Voice 4: they would be qualified as an advisory but they they were working with quite a few others to

[2:52:57] Voice 4: understand um but bringing in those elders you know could be as easy as you know like i said

[2:53:06] Voice 4: at four meetings a year where you spend your in-between time trying to design questions

[2:53:12] Voice 4: and you have a one to three hour meeting, whether it's on Zoom or it's, you know, like

[2:53:23] Voice 4: this, but allowing as anybody who's spent any time with culturally committed would understand

[2:53:32] Voice 4: you know like introductions right letting them know who you are not just you know your job or

[2:53:38] Voice 4: your role but who are you what do you do what are the names of you know your children what are the

[2:53:43] Voice 4: names of your you know mom and dad what do you like want out of you know this relationship once

[2:53:48] Voice 4: all that's out of the way and you have that it's as easy as asking them things right having that

[2:53:54] Voice 4: honorarium and so that you uh um you know you can say okay well we we found a 20 acre uh you know

[2:54:04] Voice 4: gary oak area covered in you know canvas is there any organization or any you know local

[2:54:12] Voice 4: nation that you would think would want to you know to work with us you know to help

[2:54:17] Voice 4: revitalize it or is it okay if we do what you know what jared said and actually start growing

[2:54:22] Voice 4: you know soap lily berries is that an okay idea right asking them right we need that we need that

[2:54:28] Voice 4: chance we can't keep working on our own like i don't want to hold it over anybody but are there

[2:54:33] Voice 4: any local you know first nations on the board as it is other than uh um you know like my relative

[2:54:42] Voice 4: here right there's you know that really should be a high priority so that we've got a voice in here

[2:54:50] Voice 4: So that, you know, as opposed to having to hold, you know, like a whole, you know, like I was advisory, you could just ask one or, you know, like one of your own, you know, like members.

[2:55:02] Voice 4: As an example, I'm currently in negotiations to try to ensure that the Agricultural Land Commission has a First Nations individual on their board.

[2:55:13] Voice 4: It's odd to me that, you know, they've existed this long without one, but, you know, it's just having, you know, that opinion in the room always helps.

[2:55:23] Voice 21: Trustee Falk?

[2:55:28] Voice 5: One of the problems that I'm aware of when it comes to the land on our islands is the deer overpopulations and also fallow deer.

[2:55:39] Voice 5: I wonder what thoughts you and your elders may have on that currently.

[2:55:46] Voice 4: When are we having a feast?

[2:55:49] Voice 4: I think the struggle is between the line between conservation and over-conservation.

[2:55:56] Voice 4: I don't know how else to phrase it.

[2:55:58] Voice 4: I am not a trained ecologist.

[2:56:01] Voice 4: I am not a trained, you know, like, biologist.

[2:56:05] Voice 4: I don't understand the nuances of it.

[2:56:11] Voice 4: I use the phrase all the time, there are two elders in my head, and they're arguing.

[2:56:15] Voice 4: doing one one half of the view that i i would have heard is that well this is where the deer

[2:56:22] Voice 4: lived and now we live here so maybe we're overpopulating how many were here before we

[2:56:28] Voice 4: got here and how many are here now and then look at maybe who is really overpopulating

[2:56:33] Voice 4: but that's also true that maybe then they're not healthy because they're overpopulating a higher

[2:56:39] Voice 4: level of their you know population leads to you know like disease and over grazing and all those

[2:56:45] Voice 4: other issues too so i think it to me it leads to the idea that maybe uh mcculling but not you know

[2:56:55] Voice 4: just like to leave them there but working with you know like a nation and say okay we're having

[2:57:02] Voice 4: this issue we have this you know you know like land would you be you know willing to have your

[2:57:08] Voice 4: or you know uh lands you know department um come out and harvest we we have um trained hunters in

[2:57:17] Voice 4: a lot of our nations that you know they hunt specifically for the nation once again if you

[2:57:22] Voice 4: have that you know you know like relationship uh with a nation or uh you know like like with an

[2:57:28] Voice 4: elder you know the uh you know uh uh you could have that opportunity as an example we frequently

[2:57:36] Voice 4: only have our lands um department in chicago and advertises that they've got elk meat or they've

[2:57:43] Voice 4: got other wild harvested you know the uh like meats that are specifically to be handed out you

[2:57:51] Voice 4: know like to elders and so the only way any of that happens is when our hunters are out there

[2:57:58] Voice 4: and then we have it all you know professionally uh processed and then it's handed out you know

[2:58:05] Voice 4: to the elders so my idea would yeah probably wind up that you'd want to have a hired hunter

[2:58:12] Voice 4: from a nation who who also understood like how do we get the space to understand what what does

[2:58:19] Voice 4: that herd look like you know are there you know too many males are there you know too many females

[2:58:27] Voice 4: like what does that look like which which do we have to remove right you know like we don't want

[2:58:32] Voice 4: to just be harvesting whatever happens to walk into the field right we want to harvest wisely

[2:58:37] Voice 4: so that we're resolving the issue long term as opposed to just having a meal at big feast once

[2:58:44] Voice 4: let's have you know big feast every year so yeah

[2:58:47] Voice 4: hey hey all

[2:58:51] Trustee Patrick: right how are we doing on time

[2:58:53] Trustee Patrick: it's it is time all right well i'm going to wrap the front here i'm

[2:58:58] Voice 3: going to run oh my

[2:58:59] Trustee Patrick: you have to

[2:59:00] Voice 3: run.

[2:59:08] Voice 4: Weave your way through the islands. Just like on the ocean. Oh, yeah, no problem. That

[2:59:14] Voice 4: happened. Jared,

[2:59:18] Trustee Patrick: thank you so much. So much. I guess I should speak. Thank you so much

[2:59:22] Trustee Patrick: for coming, sharing your words, your teaching. I think it's very well appreciated. I look forward

[2:59:29] Trustee Patrick: you coming back and this is a gift to you thank you for your time and

[2:59:33] Voice 4: invite me to the beach yeah

[2:59:35] Voice 4: thank

[2:59:36] Voice 21: you everyone

[3:00:01] Voice 21: All

[3:00:01] Trustee Patrick: right. It's always so uplifting. I'm so glad I'm awake. I almost feel like this morning after coffee. So thank you so much. That was a nourishment for our souls.

[3:00:15] Trustee Patrick: How are you, trustees? Where did we leave off earlier before lunch? We were working. Yes, we are. We're working our way through the letter from Minister Kalin. I hope everyone had some time to think over the lunch break.

[3:00:35] Trustee Patrick: and we're going to return. So this is our opportunity for you to give us some

[3:00:40] Trustee Patrick: feedback on the letter, really focusing on especially

[3:00:44] Trustee Patrick: the review and next steps, anything, recommendations or thoughts from

[3:00:48] Trustee Patrick: you on how we can proceed. We had gotten

[3:00:53] Trustee Patrick: down one person on the list, Trustee Allen,

[3:00:56] Trustee Patrick: so I'm going to return back to alphabetically, and that would

[3:01:00] Trustee Patrick: be Trustee Bernardo. Thanks.

[3:01:03] Voice 11: Thanks. I think the basic point I've got to make is I think we shouldn't take no for an answer.

[3:01:12] Voice 11: The very first item of concern that we put in that letter that we identified in the request

[3:01:17] Voice 11: for the review was that there's a need to address the question of the tools we have here at the

[3:01:25] Voice 11: trust to um to enable us to implement meaningful reconciliation um we you know uh we're limited in

[3:01:36] Voice 11: the tools and i won't have to go into all that story have been through it before but we are

[3:01:39] Voice 11: limited in the tools we have available and i think we all recognize that we need to go beyond

[3:01:44] Voice 11: consultation to a different stage we don't know what it looks like we don't none of us have any

[3:01:50] Voice 11: any idea other than we're reaching for some model of genuine partnership that's important that will

[3:01:59] Voice 11: work and um the minister's letter didn't engage that issue which i consider a pretty important one

[3:02:05] Voice 11: um everything we heard over the past hour in terms of engaging those traditions and learning from

[3:02:12] Voice 11: that in a you know apart from just learning it out of interest but actually engaging it or

[3:02:18] Voice 11: and putting it into our work.

[3:02:23] Voice 11: That's part of what we're talking about.

[3:02:25] Voice 11: And the minister's letter didn't engage this larger issue

[3:02:27] Voice 11: about how we can make reconciliation a really meaningful thing

[3:02:31] Voice 11: or any of the other substantive things that we raised.

[3:02:34] Voice 11: Rather, the letter seemed preoccupied with explaining to us

[3:02:39] Voice 11: that we need to be careful not to lose our way.

[3:02:43] Voice 11: And I think where we're at right now is that we just should keep trying

[3:02:46] Voice 11: to get a meeting with the minister even while it's pretty clear we need to keep working

[3:02:53] Voice 11: within the existing framework to make ourselves more effective

[3:02:57] Voice 11: but no matter how hard we work on on that with the tools we have available you know the constraints

[3:03:04] Voice 11: we identified in the crest they're not going away they're still there and to be frank i don't think

[3:03:09] Voice 11: it was helpful to be told how we're supposed to interpret the mandate when the act and case law

[3:03:17] Voice 11: are pretty clear in assigning that responsibility to trust council because we administer the act

[3:03:24] Voice 11: that's that's our job it's not within the minister's authority to tell us how to understand

[3:03:29] Voice 11: it we need to clear that up and that requires a conversation and i'm not satisfied the minister

[3:03:35] Voice 11: has received the appropriate advice, and

[3:03:38] Voice 11: the reality is that we're actually the subject matter experts.

[3:03:43] Voice 11: That's not just rhetoric. I mean, that's just, that's

[3:03:46] Voice 11: admin law. And it's not the words of

[3:03:50] Voice 11: activists or ministry staff or other politicians. And we need to clear that

[3:03:55] Voice 11: up with the minister. And for that reason alone, I think

[3:03:58] Voice 11: it's an important reason for why we should keep working to get the minister

[3:04:02] Voice 11: to engage in a constructive dialogue with us. But

[3:04:06] Voice 11: But as I said before, that's not the end of it.

[3:04:09] Voice 11: We still have to keep working on the things

[3:04:11] Voice 11: that were in the governance review

[3:04:12] Voice 11: and the things that we're learning

[3:04:14] Voice 11: that we ought to be doing to improve things here.

[3:04:17] Voice 11: And the CEO was talking about improving things before

[3:04:20] Voice 11: and we're going to hear from him again later.

[3:04:22] Voice 11: And we can keep doing those positive things,

[3:04:25] Voice 11: but we do need to keep struggling

[3:04:28] Voice 11: to develop a good dialogue with the minister.

[3:04:30] Voice 11: Thank you.

[3:04:31] Trustee Patrick: Thank you.

[3:04:32] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Bowman.

[3:04:33] Trustee Patrick: um

[3:04:37] Voice 15: i echo what trustee bernardo said about the need to actually have a really decent

[3:04:46] Voice 15: in-depth conversation with the minister i don't like the tone of the letter i find it to be

[3:04:54] Voice 15: rather like a bad report card so it refers to all sorts of things that we should be doing which i

[3:05:02] Voice 15: believe we are already doing and that we have in some way been found to be doing

[3:05:07] Voice 15: inadequately and so I feel that you know a good principal of a school would

[3:05:16] Voice 15: actually sit down and face-to-face talk through these things instead of you know

[3:05:21] Voice 15: referring you to staff and I really believe that the cost of doing what he

[3:05:32] Voice 15: suggests more than we are doing already would be considerable and if he really wants us to do

[3:05:41] Voice 15: it but more then we should cost it and put it back on the table and say you know this is the

[3:05:48] Voice 15: level of engagement we've engaged we've done this is the level of consultation we've done

[3:05:53] Voice 15: the trust policy statement began in 2019 and it's still running and we have spent probably

[3:06:02] Voice 15: probably millions if you count staff resources and physical external bodies etc etc and yet this

[3:06:10] Voice 15: letter implies that we've done an inadequate job and so if that's the case please come and sit down

[3:06:17] Voice 15: face to face and talk us through how you find it to be inadequate and what you require us to do

[3:06:24] Voice 15: more so than we've done already. Thank you. Thank you Trustee Borthwick.

[3:06:34] Voice 29: Um, I don't have a whole bunch to add. I think we have a lot of work. I think the message that

[3:06:39] Voice 29: we've gotten is that the minister is not interested in looking at things that we can feel all sorts

[3:06:46] Voice 29: of different ways about that. I think we have lots of work ahead of us still. And I'm committed to

[3:06:53] Voice 29: continuing to do the best with the powers that I have. And I appreciate those who are, you know,

[3:06:59] Voice 29: very dedicated to to this engagement process with the ministry um my my focus is going to be on

[3:07:06] Voice 29: engaging with my community and with with the people within this organization to do what i can

[3:07:10] Voice 29: with what we have already

[3:07:13] Voice 14: thank

[3:07:14] Voice 21: you trustee campbell um

[3:07:19] Voice 6: i was gonna pass but um i think

[3:07:24] Voice 6: that the response was a little bit tone deaf and i do agree um with sam about uh engaging

[3:07:33] Voice 6: in our communities but it's been something in our community that has been um fairly prevalent and the

[3:07:41] Voice 6: backlash to that letter was far from favorable for trustees on both sides of the argument it

[3:07:51] Voice 6: really isn't the letter wasn't asking whether this is about the people or the environment

[3:07:56] Voice 6: it was about asking to see how we could better structure ourselves to do a better job

[3:08:04] Voice 6: of what's come what what is coming down the pipe to us and i think that it it had a negative

[3:08:12] Voice 6: effect on islanders to receive a response like that and i don't think that it's

[3:08:18] Voice 6: appropriate really for the way that it went down

[3:08:21] Trustee Patrick: thank you trustee dobbs

[3:08:24] Voice 25: obviously the letter is

[3:08:26] Voice 25: very dismissive, very, to me, ill-informed. The first two bullets are to do with engagement

[3:08:34] Voice 25: with First Nations. I don't know if Minister Callan is aware of just what a big job that is.

[3:08:41] Voice 25: We're not just a little municipality with a few First Nations areas to deal with. We're

[3:08:48] Voice 25: obviously not funded by the province to do what the expectations that he's put in here.

[3:08:54] Voice 25: I think also that the fact that he seems to think we're not concerned about the environment is kind

[3:09:01] Voice 25: of shocking so I do think we should pursue this with him at least with a letter back explaining

[3:09:06] Voice 25: more clearly on just how hindered we are under the current operation for budget and for the

[3:09:13] Voice 25: Islas Trust Act and for trying to deal with the issues we have in our communities we don't have

[3:09:18] Voice 25: the tools that's why we've been asking for help and it's high time they paid attention and i don't

[3:09:25] Voice 25: think it'll change next term either i think people who are elected and live in the islands will

[3:09:31] Voice 25: continue to have problems thank

[3:09:34] Trustee Patrick: you trustee elliott yeah

[3:09:42] Voice 18: um so i i'm not surprised actually

[3:09:48] Voice 18: but what is in this letter i think it's a fairly careful analysis of an extraordinary situation

[3:09:59] Voice 18: we are a local government that is unique in the world however the challenges that we face as a

[3:10:05] Voice 18: local government are not unique we still got climate change we've still got the pressure of

[3:10:10] Voice 18: of market forces, and economic forces, and reconciliation. The scope and scale of what

[3:10:19] Voice 18: we are dealing with is, I think, the unique factor. The challenge that the minister puts

[3:10:26] Voice 18: before us, to what you said, Trustee Dodds, is all about engagement and relationship building.

[3:10:34] Voice 18: And so what I think is articulated in this letter is engagement with our communities,

[3:10:41] Voice 18: with Indigenous governing bodies, with our partners, the Conservancy and Bowen Island Municipality, let's not leave that out, in creating this form of government that is going to function.

[3:10:59] Voice 18: And what I see in this letter is the province does not have the magic bullet that we were hoping for to say, here's a governance structure that's going to work.

[3:11:10] Voice 18: It does put the onus back on us, for good or for ill, to figure it out in relationship with others.

[3:11:19] Voice 18: So the challenge is the scale and scope of those many relationships, 31 plus First Nations, all with very deeply passionate and articulate interests in returning and developing land use plans in the islands together with us.

[3:11:43] Voice 18: So if we look at this generationally, what's it going to take for, you know, three generations, in three generations to have a governance model that works? Yes, it's going to take legislative change. It's not going to be fast. It's not coming this term. It's going to take a lot of relationship building and careful attention to science and to manage the expectations of growth.

[3:12:09] Voice 18: So I actually agree with what's laid out in this letter.

[3:12:11] Voice 18: It says you're the ones to do the work.

[3:12:16] Voice 18: For good or for bad, this trust is set up to continually struggle with the challenges of how to manage humans and the environment in a way that does not continually depreciate either.

[3:12:33] Voice 18: And it's going to be a struggle that these islands will continue wrestling with.

[3:12:36] Voice 18: So I'm on board with continuing to work with the tools of land use planning that we have, creating a strategy for the next 10 years, let's say, of what's it going to take to move towards co-governance.

[3:12:52] Voice 18: In the meantime, we can work on our relationships, we can do protocol agreements, we can experiment and practice land use planning in a way that has a reconciliation lens, is an eye to the future, develops capacity for ecosystems to keep regenerating and returning.

[3:13:12] Voice 18: returning um but it's those values that we have to do the work with like that's what we'll ensure

[3:13:19] Voice 18: that it's done in a way that protects and preserves and all the things that that this

[3:13:25] Voice 18: trust was set up to do so i don't have any easy answers other than i think this returns the work

[3:13:31] Voice 18: to us we have to produce a level of analysis to say here's a specific legislative change that

[3:13:38] Voice 18: it needs to happen and that's what the ministers advisors said in that meeting at ubcm do some

[3:13:45] Voice 18: analysis we are the ones that know what it's going to take so i'm just on board with we got

[3:13:52] Voice 18: to keep going and figure this out thank you trustee evans

[3:13:57] Voice 12: thanks um so i agree that uh

[3:14:02] Voice 12: we need to keep fighting for a meeting um i feel like we've just been somewhere that

[3:14:07] Voice 12: some are rarely dismissed here i'm not surprised by the response the letter that we sent in i

[3:14:15] Voice 12: struggled to understand what the ask was in there when i read it myself there was a lot of

[3:14:21] Voice 12: information contained in there and i didn't know what was in there for information versus what was

[3:14:26] Voice 12: in there for a request so my recommendation would be that if we send another letter in i mean a

[3:14:34] Voice 12: A, keep fighting for a meeting.

[3:14:36] Voice 12: B, if we send another letter in, make it simple, make it clear, and make it relatively easy for the minister to take on.

[3:14:45] Voice 12: I believe that we're asking too much all at once, which is identified in here as a sweeping review.

[3:14:53] Voice 12: I would suggest that we send in one item at a time that the minister's office could take on.

[3:15:03] Voice 12: But that needs all of us to sit around and agree what takes priority. What is the number one issue that we are facing that causes the most difficulties for us to conduct our business? Is it how we engage with First Nations? Is it the fact that we have 31 nations as a small area to fund engagement with?

[3:15:23] Voice 12: um is it the lack of tools to do that is it a different topic is it the mandate are we agreed

[3:15:32] Voice 12: on what the mandate is if we are and we're making balanced decisions taking everything into account

[3:15:37] Voice 12: that needs to be um like the only ask that we should then send to the province is do you agree

[3:15:44] Voice 12: and support our position not tell us how we should interpret the mandate is it our structure of

[3:15:54] Voice 12: governance is that the key topic here what is within our control currently where do we need

[3:16:01] Voice 12: provincial intervention so questions for this table what is the number one priority that we've

[3:16:09] Voice 12: got to send in what is our number one ask outside of a meeting we need that meeting so we can

[3:16:15] Voice 12: and express where we are at and clear up some of the information that may have been clouded or

[3:16:26] Voice 12: received incorrectly or assumptions that have been made about what we are doing and how we

[3:16:32] Voice 12: got to where we are today. Yeah, so I think that's, those are my key things. Keep pushing

[3:16:44] Voice 12: for a meeting let's pick one thing that the minister can take on let's help him help us

[3:16:51] Voice 12: rather than putting all of our grievances into a into a into a laundry list and say here it is and

[3:16:59] Voice 12: i lit it on fire on the way over that's not going to help anybody thank

[3:17:04] Trustee Patrick: you rusty bulk

[3:17:08] Voice 5: thank you um

[3:17:14] Voice 5: I find myself a bit confused, I guess, or I have a very different outlook on or response to the letters.

[3:17:26] Voice 5: To me, I voted against sending a letter to the minister.

[3:17:30] Voice 5: I didn't think that was a good idea.

[3:17:32] Voice 5: And interestingly, the CAO, Hudson Pillar, and I didn't agree on anything other than that, that that was not a good idea.

[3:17:47] Voice 5: The sort of the principle that I believe in is decentralization.

[3:17:58] Voice 5: Like, I think the power should stay in the grassroots, as close to the community as possible.

[3:18:02] Voice 5: And we are the lowest level above the community, or not above, but to the community.

[3:18:08] Voice 26: And

[3:18:09] Voice 5: I feel like all decision-making should come from that level and bubble up so that the higher political powers above us are informed to construct structures that protect us to do what we need to do, according to the will and the needs of the people and the environment that people live on.

[3:18:34] Voice 5: and to to ask up and act that that that's um living out the um the idea that that it's the

[3:18:47] Voice 5: other way around which is in fact most of our world is run top down i'm trying to work bottom

[3:18:55] Voice 5: up and so to do that one would never ever from one level go to that level above and say hey what

[3:19:02] Voice 5: What do you think we should do?

[3:19:03] Voice 5: That to me is a really bad mistake.

[3:19:07] Voice 5: Because, and somebody told us that the meetings with the staff there had said, be careful what you ask for.

[3:19:18] Voice 5: And that's exactly what happens when you ask.

[3:19:22] Voice 5: People that are not as closely connected to the grassroots, to what's really happening on the ground,

[3:19:28] Voice 5: they have to come up with ideas based on not having knowledge to give you direction that's

[3:19:37] Voice 5: a dangerous situation so i i totally don't get why we would do that the the let the answer we got back

[3:19:47] Voice 5: basically supports that in the way i read it it says you shouldn't ask me because you you you

[3:19:54] Voice 5: You are the guys. You figure it out. Like, I do not read it as a negative statement or disempowering or anything like that.

[3:20:03] Voice 5: I see it as empowering. Saying, no, just you do it. It's like a child asking for, you know, asking an adult for, you know, I've never run a boat before.

[3:20:15] Voice 5: Let me do it. Like, can you show me how to do it? And the adult throws him in the boat and says, well, maybe not throw, but place him and say,

[3:20:23] Voice 5: say, would you figure it out? That's empowering. And I think that we are empowered by this.

[3:20:31] Voice 5: And luckily, in my view, they didn't decide, well, here's how we do it, you know, because

[3:20:37] Voice 5: that would have been terrible, in my opinion, because they would have not known what we

[3:20:41] Voice 5: needed. And they would have enforced things on us that probably wouldn't be what we wanted

[3:20:49] Voice 5: or needed or can do much with so um just let me check my notes and see if i've covered everything

[3:20:57] Voice 5: that i wanted to say um i think that

[3:21:04] Voice 21: covers it thanks thank you toasty fast thank you chair

[3:21:14] Voice 22: um i don't have a lot to say i thought i welcome the letter it's a substantive response to the

[3:21:21] Voice 22: shorter letter we received from the previous minister uh minister cullen so this one is a

[3:21:27] Voice 22: more substantive response it's got more detail in it um we've got a new strategic plan in front of

[3:21:34] Voice 22: us um the uh we just adopted it at our last meeting i think um we could get on with the work

[3:21:43] Voice 22: in front of us uh with the tools we've already got uh and i look forward to working on the rest

[3:21:50] Voice 22: of the agenda i'm not sure we should spend more time on this um which takes a lot of our time

[3:21:58] Voice 22: i think we should get on to the work at hand uh in the next parts of the agenda thank you

[3:22:06] Voice 22: trustee

[3:22:06] Trustee Patrick: gabriel i'm

[3:22:11] Voice 20: just together deeply lost in thought there um

[3:22:18] Voice 20: my oppression of the letter is um it's pretty practical to me actually um i think the minister

[3:22:27] Voice 20: it was pretty clear that, sorry, I'm pulling my note.

[3:22:31] Voice 20: It appears to me maybe we've overwhelmed them with that original letter.

[3:22:35] Voice 20: It says right here, it says that a review as sweeping as laid out in the letter

[3:22:39] Voice 20: to Minister King. Minister King, therefore, they're not

[3:22:43] Voice 20: in a position right now, considering that they have other

[3:22:47] Voice 20: priorities at the moment. So maybe the strategy

[3:22:50] Voice 20: or whatever, that's in some direction for sure.

[3:22:53] Voice 20: um i also think that the minister is very clear on page was very clear when they said along similar

[3:23:04] Voice 20: lines before returning another request to the province or provincial review that they'd expect

[3:23:11] Voice 20: that trust council would ensure that is engaged in a meaningful way with the agencies i know you

[3:23:16] Voice 20: all read the letter but he's giving us directions on what we should be doing before we do that

[3:23:20] Voice 20: And I will note that it does mention the Allen's Trust Conservancy Board and Bowen Island Municipality, which were missed in consultation the first draft of the letter was sent out.

[3:23:32] Voice 20: It was an opportunity to fix that and to revisit that and maybe rewrite that letter or revisit the letter.

[3:23:37] Voice 20: But at any rate, what I think we should be doing is pursuing that meeting with our chair, with the minister, and going from there.

[3:23:50] Voice 21: Thank you very much.

[3:23:52] Voice 20: Trustee Giddey.

[3:23:55] Voice 16: Well, I think this letter was, I'm very happy that we received this letter, and I'm quite positive in terms of everything that's saying, and I think we need to be really, really mindful.

[3:24:07] Voice 16: First of all, in the second paragraph, he talks about if we listen carefully and we think about the world that he's living in and the demands on the provincial government and housing in particular and what's happening with this province, that when he says that a review is sweeping as that laid out in the letter is not within the realm of possibilities in the near future.

[3:24:31] Voice 16: I think that what we have to learn from this is that our tactic of perhaps being too strong is not persuasive, and that for whatever reason, they have thought carefully about this response and laid out a huge amount of information for us that we can use to our advantage.

[3:24:59] Voice 16: who's that happen so if we're thinking about um the world that that this ministry is living in

[3:25:08] Voice 16: and what they're trying to do with housing i think that it was um it's realistic in terms of his

[3:25:12] Voice 16: response that this is not something that they can take on and it's not something that if we pushed

[3:25:17] Voice 16: it that they would do a good job on and that we might end up with something that um is less than

[3:25:22] Voice 16: an ideal if uh if we were to push it um and i think that uh when he says in the um later on

[3:25:32] Voice 16: that he um you know before there's any further request that um we have to uh look at um how we

[3:25:40] Voice 16: engage with others and we need to focus on our trust policy statement that that's a big um issue

[3:25:47] Voice 16: that needs to be dealt with and that we need to do that well that we need to

[3:25:52] Voice 16: demonstrate efforts to build consensus and I think that that's recognizing that

[3:25:57] Voice 16: we had a pretty significant problem with our section 3 mandate and our

[3:26:02] Voice 16: communications and that we could put a great deal more effort into that and

[3:26:06] Voice 16: helping people understand the decisions that were coming to in the process that

[3:26:10] Voice 16: we used and I think that they've understood that and highlighted that I

[3:26:15] Voice 16: I think that they are very clear with respect to helping us understand this whole issue of the ecological mandate.

[3:26:25] Voice 16: So he lays it out in terms of he understands that in that mandate, there's the trust area and the local amenities and or the unique amenities and the environment.

[3:26:40] Voice 16: requirement um so there's i don't think there's any question in their mind um of what exactly the

[3:26:45] Voice 16: mandate is and they they're not changing that they're not taking that away from us and they're

[3:26:50] Voice 16: not reducing that so um we're safe in some ways but we need to and he reiterates and he helps us

[3:26:57] Voice 16: repeat the fact that anytime we make a decision about the conflicting um the managing the

[3:27:04] Voice 16: expectations without exceeding the carrying capacity that's the conflict that we were

[3:27:09] Voice 16: talking about in terms of that's the always been the basis of the islands trust from the very very

[3:27:14] Voice 16: beginning the difference between ecological protection and development and how do we balance

[3:27:20] Voice 16: it and how do we meet um after and he emphasizes the careful deliberations and that's the um the

[3:27:28] Voice 16: decision that we came to when we were talking about the mandate it's not very well understood

[3:27:32] Voice 16: by people outside the organization but i think around this table that's getting better understood

[3:27:38] Voice 16: stood. He highlights then after that, that our next big job is the policy statement and that

[3:27:45] Voice 16: we need to take very careful care of that. And that's, you know, once we get that under our

[3:27:49] Voice 16: belts, then we also need to show in that process and in any other work that we're doing that we're

[3:27:56] Voice 16: making meaningful engagement with other agencies. That's the Conservancy and the Bowen

[3:28:04] Voice 16: municipality um when we became a municipality we decided we did not want to leave the islands trust

[3:28:10] Voice 16: and we had a memorandum of understanding in terms of anything that had to do with governance

[3:28:15] Voice 16: would come back to us for um that we would be a slightly separate entity but that we would follow

[3:28:20] Voice 16: the rules that we had a process of being a participant making the decisions so we went

[3:28:26] Voice 16: way out of line in terms of not making the referral to bowen and that was the reaction

[3:28:31] Voice 16: of the council. And that's why the mayor actually came and spoke to us. So that's something that we

[3:28:36] Voice 16: need to take care of. The meeting that we had at UBCM with respect to half a dozen senior level

[3:28:45] Voice 16: bureaucrats that are working in that ministry was incredibly helpful and positive and forthcoming.

[3:28:51] Voice 16: And he's identified Marika Edmondson, who is probably somebody in that ministry who has

[3:28:59] Voice 16: one of the very best skill sets that we need. And the fact that that person has been specifically

[3:29:04] Voice 16: identified, I think, is helping us to identify who our friends are in that ministry and who we can

[3:29:12] Voice 16: rely on and who we can go to. And one of the things that she mentioned at the end of the meeting that

[3:29:17] Voice 16: we had with them was that, with respect to governance, that she actually teaches in some

[3:29:24] Voice 16: some capacity and some program, and that we're not, I don't think we're necessarily taking best

[3:29:29] Voice 16: advantage of all of the people and the resources that we've got. So they're not capable, they don't

[3:29:35] Voice 16: have the capacity, they've got real problems. They're golfing it back to us, because we do

[3:29:39] Voice 16: have a lot of work on our plate that will help this whole process, get that done, and sort out

[3:29:45] Voice 16: the kinds of things that are referred to in the governance review in terms of what are the best

[3:29:51] Voice 16: practices for governance. And I don't think anybody here has those answers that we need to

[3:29:56] Voice 16: sort out from some of these resources.

[3:30:00] Voice 16: they're talking about and the kinds of things we've made significant changes since we started

[3:30:04] Voice 16: with how the front table is organized and how we speak to different matters and i think that

[3:30:12] Voice 16: we're we're learning and growing we're trying to get some help and yes i think we need to

[3:30:18] Voice 16: take it into bite-sized pieces in terms of this is a manageable problem that we can get some help

[3:30:23] Voice 16: with and this is maybe the funding is the first issue that we take on that's separate um and you

[3:30:30] Voice 16: know what we've got with the conservancy in terms of partnership with them is an enormous cash of

[3:30:37] Voice 16: assets and that has certainly some power but i think that we have to go to work with the ministry

[3:30:44] Voice 16: not feeling that we've been chastised but that we're trying to have a dialogue and figure out

[3:30:51] Voice 16: what the weaknesses are in terms of our ask and what the strengths are and where do we go

[3:30:56] Voice 16: next in terms of identifying who and how and when to work on this and build on it

[3:31:01] Voice 16: i don't take it as a strong negative and i don't feel dismissed and i think that

[3:31:06] Voice 16: there's a lot of really good information here that we can use and learn from

[3:31:12] Voice 21: thank you trustee graham um

[3:31:20] Voice 31: i wasn't a member of trust council last term and had i been i would

[3:31:25] Voice 31: have voted against having a governance review the idea that the history of the trust has led us into

[3:31:34] Voice 31: this dysfunctional governance i don't agree the evidence would suggest otherwise i think we've

[3:31:41] Voice 31: done a pretty darn good job of our mandate there'll always be people who will um not like

[3:31:50] Voice 31: what's going on i consider them the minority their views are important but they don't speak for the

[3:31:57] Voice 31: the majority, in my opinion, certainly on my island.

[3:32:00] Voice 31: If each island is a micro version of the entire federation, we are all aware of how our islands,

[3:32:09] Voice 31: who shows up to the meetings, who writes the letters, who's involved.

[3:32:13] Voice 31: And the vast majority of our residents are happy to live their quiet lives and enjoy

[3:32:18] Voice 31: the work that the trust has done.

[3:32:21] Voice 31: And I guess my question then is, had the governance review not happened, would we

[3:32:27] Voice 31: We would be in this situation today, would we be questioning the way that we do our work,

[3:32:34] Voice 31: the way that we select our vice chairs and our chair, would we be in this pickle?

[3:32:43] Voice 31: There's perhaps one aspect that I would agree that leads attention, and that's the aspect

[3:32:50] Voice 31: aspect of our consultation with First Nations, which was never on the radar in 1974, and

[3:32:58] Voice 31: we're experiencing, we need to be consulting in such a depth, and that depth has a financial

[3:33:06] Voice 31: cost, and again, I'm going to use my little island as an example, and we're looking at

[3:33:10] Voice 31: a simple rezoning, and that rezoning required us to take money that was not budgeted out

[3:33:17] Voice 31: of our project fund to to help the first nations uh do the work that they needed to do to inform us

[3:33:23] Voice 31: so that we do the best job that we can and that's just a small example so if we had gone to the

[3:33:30] Voice 31: province with a specific ask which was in fact the um advice that we got from staff who had uh

[3:33:37] Voice 31: broached the subject with those in the ministry that were that were going to come to the ministry

[3:33:42] Voice 31: with a letter and the the advice was we'll be really specific with your ask had we done that

[3:33:48] Voice 31: had we asked for money to handle the cost of consultation we might have been more successful

[3:33:54] Voice 31: but we asked for a full review which i don't know why uh last term was led the trust council to

[3:34:01] Voice 31: reach that decision but they did um i think it would have been helpful in my first year here

[3:34:07] Voice 31: had we had a chance to really look at the review and ask the question, do we agree?

[3:34:12] Voice 31: Do we agree with the consultation's results?

[3:34:16] Voice 31: Consultants are paid to do the work, and that was the results that they got.

[3:34:22] Voice 31: Not necessarily did I agree with the results that they got.

[3:34:28] Voice 31: I'm not surprised at the letter from the ministry at all.

[3:34:32] Voice 31: I didn't agree with sending another letter.

[3:34:34] Voice 31: I expected this result.

[3:34:35] Voice 31: I mean, if you look at the priority of the provincial government and the huge problems that we have with people living in tents and opioids and illegal drugs and the horrors of people, and then you look at our little problem, yeah, we're not on the radar.

[3:34:55] Voice 31: Absolutely not.

[3:34:59] Voice 21: Thank you.

[3:34:59] Voice 21: Trustee Harris?

[3:35:01] Voice 28: what some may call a little problem um is actually a big problem on salt spring and is equivalent to

[3:35:08] Voice 28: some of the problems that are going on in the big city um myself i think the minister was just flat

[3:35:13] Voice 28: out wrong with his response and i like the term ill-informed that was used earlier um i'm actually

[3:35:19] Voice 28: i question and i'm curious as to where he received information to formulate his response

[3:35:24] Voice 28: I think the softening of our request was problematic and may be partially responsible for the response that we received.

[3:35:35] Voice 28: A stronger, more pointed message, in my opinion, would be advantageous and needs to be sent regarding the ability to address reconciliation and the pressing need, more than pressing need, to open up the Day on the Trust Act to change the glaring undemocratic representation issue built into the structure of the organization.

[3:35:52] Voice 28: organization. Salt Spring suffers from that hugely. And I'm sure there's a couple other

[3:35:58] Voice 28: islands. There's other islands that I'm not even sure why they're even in the Islands Trust at

[3:36:03] Voice 28: this point. I do think that some of the smaller islands can be serviced quite well with the

[3:36:09] Voice 28: structure the way it is right now. But Salt Spring, for instance, it doesn't fit. So the dysfunction

[3:36:19] Voice 28: function that this organization suffers from is every reason for us to keep pushing for meeting

[3:36:24] Voice 28: with the province strong and hard and now thank you thank

[3:36:30] Voice 21: you trustee hunter thank you chair

[3:36:34] Voice 30: um i as well was not in favor of asking the government for review um and they will

[3:36:45] Voice 30: Well, obviously, they don't have time for us.

[3:36:48] Voice 30: My other problem is when the trust was conceived back in 1974, that's fine.

[3:36:56] Voice 30: The government paid for it every penny for 20 years.

[3:37:01] Voice 30: Then magically in 1994, something happened, and now 31 years later, the taxpayers of the trust are working out $9 or $10 million a year.

[3:37:15] Voice 30: That's okay.

[3:37:16] Voice 30: Okay, but the government is also saying, in paragraph six here, before returning with another request, you need to engage in a meaningful way with First Nations, local governments, and the Conservancy Board.

[3:37:36] Voice 30: Okay, well, where's the money?

[3:37:42] Voice 30: And also with the policy statement review.

[3:37:45] Voice 30: view i'm concerned that if we make you know we're engaging with first nations a lot my fear is that

[3:37:57] Voice 30: when this goes to the public and then to the government for final uh consideration are they

[3:38:05] Voice 30: going to get what they want are they is it going to be what we think is going to happen or is it

[3:38:11] Voice 30: all going to just be for nothing so that's my fear i i don't want to do something that is going to be

[3:38:20] Voice 30: seen later that we've made a big mistake so what i'd like to do that staff has worked so hard on

[3:38:29] Voice 30: this policy statement review let's just get it to the public please let them decide what they think

[3:38:36] Voice 30: of it and let's get on with other things thank you thank

[3:38:43] Trustee Patrick: you i think trustee laroni i don't see

[3:38:45] Trustee Patrick: her online anymore okay uh trustee

[3:38:49] Voice 32: luckham um thank you chair and uh thank you very much for

[3:38:56] Voice 32: facilitating this round table um it's very helpful to hear from everybody so um i don't honestly i

[3:39:06] Voice 32: do not understand what the fuss is about this letter um i think it's the response was what i

[3:39:11] Voice 32: would have anticipated and i think the letter is clear um and i apologize that i will be repeating

[3:39:20] Voice 32: some of those things that have been said, but to paint the picture from my point of view,

[3:39:24] Voice 32: I need to reiterate some of that. I'll be brief as I can. We are the content experts.

[3:39:30] Voice 32: We've been told this by the government. And we are also autonomous and empowered to make our

[3:39:39] Voice 32: own decisions. We have very broad latitude. The province has often said, you guys do what you

[3:39:48] Voice 32: think is necessary to do, we'll look at it and approve it if it looks good to us.

[3:39:53] Voice 32: And I think that's what the policy statement is about for me.

[3:39:57] Voice 32: The letter in the last paragraph states we will continue to support.

[3:40:02] Voice 32: That support has been strong over the years, including $160,000 two years ago or three

[3:40:11] Voice 32: years ago to support consultation with First Nations.

[3:40:13] Voice 32: we have and again in the letter we have a strong working relationship with staff we do we need to

[3:40:22] Voice 32: listen to them and not the staff our staff don't need to listen to them because i know they do

[3:40:26] Voice 32: we need to listen to that advice it was given at ubcm and quite frankly some thought that

[3:40:34] Voice 32: it was rejected anyway senior ministry staff the the door to senior senior ministry staff is open

[3:40:42] Voice 32: and we can facilitate that and I'm certain that the minister would support whatever was necessary

[3:40:50] Voice 32: to undertake that. I'll say, you know, we are a 50-year-old child of the government and the

[3:41:02] Voice 32: government does not expect to hold our hand or tell us what to do. They want to know what we

[3:41:08] Voice 32: think about what our future looks like and I believe that the government will support that.

[3:41:13] Voice 32: that. So finish the policy statement, essentially. That's the opportunity for the government to say,

[3:41:22] Voice 32: hey, we agree with you, or no, we don't. And it'd be terrific to hear that. And then we've talked

[3:41:29] Voice 32: here initially, well, implementation. What about implementation of the policy statement? Great

[3:41:33] Voice 32: question. Let's get the policy statement to where we know where we're going. Let's create an

[3:41:39] Voice 32: implementation plan. And let's go to the government and ask for funding to do the implementation.

[3:41:44] Voice 32: Because sure, there's OCPs and LUBs that need to be opened up. Let's get that happening. So let's go to the government for more support. You know, just yesterday, we had sort of a loose conversation, thank you, Judy Getty, for your report from the Governance Committee, about reviewing the governance report with respect to what it is that we may or may not want to undertake.

[3:42:10] Voice 32: We've still not done that. We've not had a council discussion about that. Let's do that and figure out what's in the report. And indeed, then let's go to the government and say we want to re-architect the executive committee or whatever it is we want to do and seek some funding for that.

[3:42:26] Voice 32: i think specifics others have said that let's go for specifics let's do it and then more important

[3:42:31] Voice 32: than absolutely anything we need to be united on this we have to speak as a strong single voice

[3:42:39] Voice 32: going in a positive direction in support of the environment and in support of the communities

[3:42:46] Voice 32: it's always been paramount in my mind that the communities need to

[3:42:50] Voice 32: to prosper and grow in our islands,

[3:42:57] Voice 32: but we need to protect the natural environment

[3:42:59] Voice 32: that attracts those people here.

[3:43:01] Voice 32: That's why we're here, all of us.

[3:43:03] Voice 32: So let's get on with it.

[3:43:04] Voice 32: Let's work together.

[3:43:07] Voice 32: And I thank the minister

[3:43:09] Voice 32: and I thank the ministry staff for this letter.

[3:43:11] Voice 32: I think it's another helping steer us in a good direction.

[3:43:15] Voice 32: Thank you.

[3:43:17] Voice 21: Thank you, Trustee Maberly.

[3:43:20] Voice 9: Thank you Chair.

[3:43:22] Voice 9: Um, so much of, of what I have to say has already been said.

[3:43:27] Voice 9: Um, I think trustee Hunter hit it on the head.

[3:43:32] Voice 9: Um, the reality is, um, you know, we have the tools to do our

[3:43:38] Voice 9: job on, at, at the local LCC.

[3:43:42] Voice 9: Um, I know when the letter was being drafted, I I'd urged that, you know,

[3:43:49] Voice 9: The language around reconciliation, that's what I wanted the letter to be about.

[3:43:58] Voice 9: The reality is Canada signed on to UNDRIP, the province signed on to DRIPA,

[3:44:05] Voice 9: and then they told us to engage in consultation that demonstrates mutual respect.

[3:44:15] Voice 9: Well, it's easy to put your young guy in the boat,

[3:44:21] Voice 9: but when you put him in a boat with a 50-year-old toolkit,

[3:44:24] Voice 9: you're asking for trouble.

[3:44:26] Voice 9: And unfortunately, that's what the government has done to us.

[3:44:30] Voice 9: And Trustee Hunter is exactly right.

[3:44:34] Voice 9: We need funding so that we can create the path

[3:44:39] Voice 9: to that mutual respect with First Nations.

[3:44:43] Voice 9: We can't expect, even with the policy statement,

[3:44:48] Voice 9: to drop it on their doorstep and say,

[3:44:52] Voice 9: hey, have your staff look at this and, you know,

[3:44:55] Voice 9: take the time you know do it quickly but we're not giving them any funding to do

[3:45:00] Voice 9: that so that that I think is where the letter misses the mark from the minister

[3:45:05] Voice 9: is not acknowledging that the road to reconciliation is partially their

[3:45:14] Voice 9: responsibility the reality is regardless of this letter regardless of anything

[3:45:20] Voice 9: else I'm gonna go back to Galliano I'm gonna

[3:45:23] Voice 9: work with my fellow trustees I'm

[3:45:25] Voice 9: I'm going to sit down with the penultimate, we're going to create those relationships, and we're going to get our job done, regardless of whether the minister understands that or not, right?

[3:45:38] Voice 9: So, sure, we got a letter back from the minister.

[3:45:42] Voice 9: I mean, I'm not going to waste a whole lot of breath on trying to convince them, because clearly, if they don't understand the basic concept of reconciliation, what's the point?

[3:46:04] Voice 21: Thank you. Trustee Mott.

[3:46:08] Voice 1: Thank you. Hard act to follow.

[3:46:12] Voice 1: I struggled with the response from the minister because I kind of felt he really muddied the waters in some aspects for me.

[3:46:21] Voice 1: Particularly, he focused on environment and indigenous relations.

[3:46:27] Voice 1: And I think the opportunity was for the province to strengthen the mandate and be clear in those aspects.

[3:46:36] Voice 1: next, and he didn't. We are working with a 50-year-old

[3:46:40] Voice 1: toolkit. Things have changed, and

[3:46:45] Voice 1: I would have liked, at the very least, for the minister to review

[3:46:49] Voice 1: our mandate, clarify that mandate,

[3:46:54] Voice 1: add in indigenous relationships, co-governance.

[3:46:58] Voice 1: I don't know. I don't know what the vision of the province is, because we are

[3:47:02] Voice 1: a child of the province. We are a provincial agency.

[3:47:05] Voice 1: agency. People often refer to us as local government. We're a provincial agency. We

[3:47:12] Voice 1: have a direct lineage to the minister. We have a mandate from the province that I think

[3:47:19] Voice 1: is dated and doesn't serve us and lacks some clarity and some points. And if that one small

[3:47:28] Voice 1: aspect was undertaken for review and we give them the clarity, like clarity for simple

[3:47:35] Voice 1: simple things like unique amenities what are they i would i would rather the ministry define that

[3:47:41] Voice 1: because what we were told by ministry staff is that broad definition was a gift that we can

[3:47:47] Voice 1: interpret it any way we want i don't think that's a gift because that that has created so many

[3:47:52] Voice 1: challenges for our for our governance and our communities and our critics because no matter

[3:47:58] Voice 1: how we interpret it somebody says we're wrong and i would have liked to have seen those firm words

[3:48:02] Voice 1: words. So I kind of think the minister letter missed the mark a bit. I'm not surprised,

[3:48:11] Voice 1: as others have shared. But instead of being a total dismissal, I would have liked to at

[3:48:18] Voice 1: least he cherry picked a couple of things and said, we can help you with that, particularly

[3:48:22] Voice 1: in indigenous relationships, because we do not have a direct mandate. We are a child

[3:48:27] Voice 1: of the province. We have a lineage to UNDRAP going up the ladder, but for clarity for our communities

[3:48:34] Voice 1: and our governance model, it would have been nice for them to put that in there. And I think part of

[3:48:39] Voice 1: that is that we're working down a road to co-governance and that clarity really, really,

[3:48:45] Voice 1: really would have helped our road forward because we're working on things like policy statements

[3:48:49] Voice 1: and such that perhaps in two or three years are going to have no relevance to reality as we move

[3:48:56] Voice 1: towards those models um the other thing is he he really picked out and and our critics have pointed

[3:49:04] Voice 1: out he really pointed towards environments as being a focus that's not what our mandate says

[3:49:11] Voice 1: i would is again i would have preferred that the minister review the mandates and and that's what

[3:49:17] Voice 1: the minister thinks we need to highlight highlight in the mandate because and i'll i'll end with

[3:49:23] Voice 1: with what you guys are probably tired of me saying i go back to 1975 in our first policy statement

[3:49:30] Voice 1: and that policy statement said recognition that the islands are first of all an existing community

[3:49:36] Voice 1: of people and the welfare of those people and those who join them and come after them must

[3:49:41] Voice 1: always be a primary concern of the trust that's how the founders saw the vision of the trust

[3:49:49] Voice 1: where we're supposed to land in our decision making process.

[3:49:53] Voice 1: It appears the minister has a different interpretation of that.

[3:49:57] Voice 1: And I would have liked to have that guidance, because the minister is our parent.

[3:50:03] Voice 1: We're not like a municipality. We don't have that degree of separation. We have that

[3:50:09] Voice 1: direct lineage. And for that clarity, I think it really would have helped us.

[3:50:14] Voice 1: And yes, we're going to move forward. And yes, we have a toolkit, and we're going to do the

[3:50:18] Voice 1: very best we can but part of my struggle is is that everything that we do goes to the to the

[3:50:24] Voice 1: province to be approved so we we don't have the freedom to do things and hopefully we correctly

[3:50:31] Voice 1: interpret things and hopefully we garner the support of the ministry to do the good work that

[3:50:37] Voice 1: we do but right now it's kind of like throwing a dartboard and hoping you land right because i

[3:50:43] Voice 1: think there are some small points where we could have got some help rather than be totally dismissed

[3:50:47] Voice 1: Smith, so thank you very much.

[3:50:49] Voice 22: Thank you. Trustee Middleton.

[3:50:55] Voice 1: Thank you.

[3:50:59] Voice 2: Excuse me.

[3:51:00] Voice 2: I think that this

[3:51:01] Voice 2: letter sort of is a culmination

[3:51:04] Voice 2: of a process we've been through over

[3:51:06] Voice 2: many years now that I

[3:51:08] Voice 2: think is a point we should take

[3:51:10] Voice 2: as a point of reflection.

[3:51:13] Voice 2: I will give us some

[3:51:15] Voice 2: historical background. You could cue the soft

[3:51:17] Voice 2: music here if you wish.

[3:51:21] Voice 2: I

[3:51:24] Voice 2: For good or ill, last term we started a governance review.

[3:51:30] Voice 2: I know at the time some didn't agree, some still don't agree, many have not accepted it.

[3:51:34] Voice 2: It's just the reality. I accept that.

[3:51:36] Voice 2: I found it a source of frustration for a period of time,

[3:51:39] Voice 2: but now I'm like a mill pond and I merely reflect my surroundings.

[3:51:44] Voice 2: And so what happened was we commissioned a governance review.

[3:51:49] Voice 2: review. It was, I think, fairly detailed but hard to implement, as I'll admit. And I don't

[3:51:55] Voice 2: know if it triggered or there was a parallel process whereby we looked at these 15 recommendations

[3:52:02] Voice 2: and then there became an appetite for a request to the province for a review. I don't know

[3:52:07] Voice 2: if it somehow triggered subconsciously. We thought, whoa, that's a lot of work. I'm not

[3:52:11] Voice 2: sure we can pull that off. But maybe nothing to do with it. But there was a gathering momentum

[3:52:18] Voice 2: momentum for um a review by the province and of course you know that it happened we all know the

[3:52:24] Voice 2: history there but i would i would like you know in the vein of revisionist history i'll do my own

[3:52:29] Voice 2: part i would like to point out that in this very room one year ago we were completely one and all

[3:52:35] Voice 2: galvanized by our former mla that's why we sent the letter we often forget that point right and

[3:52:41] Voice 2: he he talked about the success that the province had with a citizens-based review of the police

[3:52:47] Voice 2: I think that's what we were hoping for. We didn't get that. You know, the dice roll that way. And in some ways, I almost feel that that the governance report contained many excellent points, but it was like, imagine the sunflower. You've never seen one. Now paint one. And what's more, we're not including yellow in your toolkit. Right. And I would say, you know, let's just drop the governance review.

[3:53:15] Voice 2: view now it's not game traction we've sincerely worked on it i don't blame you know and salvage

[3:53:21] Voice 2: from it what we can but i think now is the time for some reordered thinking the ministry has

[3:53:26] Voice 2: obviously said the federation not a priority we're not going to suffer any political uh damage for

[3:53:32] Voice 2: you know not getting engaged yeah so so be it that is life that's that's politics but i think

[3:53:37] Voice 2: what we need to do is uh um i reflect on the words of our of our most recent speaker to understand

[3:53:44] Voice 2: send the land you need to see it from the water well last year we came into ganges by water

[3:53:52] Voice 2: trustee maybe i've done the same regional director brin it is not getting any better

[3:53:58] Voice 2: something is rotten in the state of denmark and people are suffering is that is the trust the

[3:54:04] Voice 2: body to fix this i don't you know unfortunately maybe not maybe you know but but obviously we're

[3:54:10] Voice 2: not getting any help from anywhere else so i would say let us use this as an opportunity for

[3:54:15] Voice 2: some perhaps fairly radical innovative thinking the trust doesn't need to spend the budget it

[3:54:20] Voice 2: spends on islands like i'm not picking on you peter i'm picking myself too miles like thetis

[3:54:25] Voice 2: and saturn as dave trustee grain point out in essence we're fairly well served there like the

[3:54:32] Voice 2: ocps the lines on the map have created sort of an area of preservation we don't need the budget

[3:54:37] Voice 2: amount that are poured into those islands that needs to go for good or ill to places like uh

[3:54:43] Voice 2: salt spring and to do what we can do with the housing crisis the fentanyl crisis that is right

[3:54:51] Voice 2: now out on the water um i'm thinking okay ministry you said you know you've got the tools well

[3:54:57] Voice 2: obviously they're not going to question the use of our tools i say it's time for radical budgetary

[3:55:02] Voice 2: reorganization to try to affect what we can affect so turn it doesn't need barely any services

[3:55:09] Voice 2: Obviously, somebody has to respond to a development request, and obviously, we have the staff to do that.

[3:55:14] Voice 2: We don't need five meetings a year.

[3:55:16] Voice 2: We don't need a formal planner.

[3:55:18] Voice 2: I suspect that's the case with South Pender.

[3:55:20] Voice 2: You may argue differently.

[3:55:24] Voice 2: Reconciliation has to take place at the local level, as Trustee Mabry is saying, but I think we've been given an invitation to rethink here and say, okay, well, we know what the tools are, that there's no mystery.

[3:55:37] Voice 2: We're obviously using them wrong from the perspective of those outside.

[3:55:42] Voice 2: So how can we start using them right where we affect people's lives?

[3:55:45] Voice 2: I mean, I was very impressed by the speakers we had here in this room last night.

[3:55:49] Voice 2: It was tremendously inspiring to know that we've got fellow community members who are

[3:55:54] Voice 2: free-thinking individuals, willing to engage with the issues, not blaming.

[3:55:59] Voice 2: And let's take that mantra, you know, the minister's letter is what it is, right?

[3:56:03] Voice 2: Right. But I think it is, as I think some of you said, an invitation to perhaps start to do things differently.

[3:56:10] Voice 2: And I think reorganizing our budgetary focus onto the areas where we know we have significant issues right now, even if it's like putting a finger in the in the breach of the dam, it's the human thing to do.

[3:56:24] Voice 2: It's the only thing I think we really can do. And, you know, I'm not saying this is a complete roadmap to the future.

[3:56:30] Voice 2: What I'm saying, I guess, is it is a time for us to perhaps re-examine how we affect the mandate, given the world around us, given the support we're getting, and see if we can, you know, to Peter's point, can come together on maybe some kind of new funky business here and kind of move forward.

[3:56:50] Voice 2: And so I would just like to offer that.

[3:56:53] Voice 2: And I thank you for listening.

[3:56:55] Trustee Patrick: Thank you.

[3:56:55] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Morrison.

[3:56:56] Trustee Patrick: person

[3:57:01] Voice 14: so i think i would like us to think about who we are we as a trust council okay

[3:57:08] Voice 14: um if we claim to be content experts and providence pushes back on us and says it's our

[3:57:14] Voice 14: job to solve these issues then i think we have to really carefully understand who is not at this

[3:57:22] Voice 14: table okay and so from a reconciliation perspective this is not a co-management situation right now

[3:57:29] Voice 14: from a basic election perspective um first nations whose territories we live in do not

[3:57:37] Voice 14: get a vote on who sits on this council for the large part they live outside because they've

[3:57:43] Voice 14: been pushed out of the islands for a variety of reasons so the sail the startlet second they don't

[3:57:48] Voice 14: vote in our election should they it's their territory these are the questions that i'm

[3:57:54] Voice 14: concerned about when we think about reconciliation when we think about governance struggles

[3:57:59] Voice 14: structures, requests to the province. Those are the things that I'm concerned about because every

[3:58:05] Voice 14: single other decision that we make, we make as a trust council, depends on who sits here at this

[3:58:12] Voice 14: table and who voted for you and who didn't vote for you. So from my perspective, this letter is

[3:58:21] Voice 14: a real sort of blender of responses in different directions. And partly it's because of how we

[3:58:29] Voice 14: requested things the history yes blah all that um but partly it's also because the province is

[3:58:36] Voice 14: downloading its stripper responsibilities onto the trust without actually the authority given our

[3:58:42] Voice 14: legal opinions that have been shared with us this term to really do it six years ago on north pender

[3:58:50] Voice 14: ben mcconkey and i asked for local co-governance okay we asked for the the staff to explore options

[3:58:58] Voice 14: for us to have i was willing to cede my seat and to think about how we actually do that okay

[3:59:05] Voice 14: but we were told that that's not really in our jurisdiction to do that that's the province

[3:59:11] Voice 14: so yeah i totally went for the governance report and thinking about how we we include

[3:59:17] Voice 14: reconciliation inside that it's critical to everything that i value and believe in

[3:59:21] Voice 14: and it's critical i think to how we implement our mandate so respectfully and not in a negative way

[3:59:28] Voice 14: I completely have the opposite view of Trustee Maude.

[3:59:33] Voice 14: I think that the province's responsibility should be on sorting out the drift of obligations

[3:59:39] Voice 14: and who sits at this table, the structure of this table.

[3:59:42] Voice 14: And we should own our job to get the policy statement done.

[3:59:47] Voice 14: So we're in a dilemma.

[3:59:49] Voice 14: It's a chicken and egg problem right now, right?

[3:59:52] Voice 14: We got the policy statement moving forward in different ways.

[3:59:55] Voice 14: Let's get that done.

[3:59:56] Voice 14: I'm with y'all, okay?

[3:59:57] Voice 14: Let's just get that done so we can say, hey, look.

[4:00:00] Voice 14: do something can you do something please please can you do something to like fix some of the

[4:00:05] Voice 14: issues that are critical to this space so i think that if we i agree as well with all the things

[4:00:11] Voice 14: that have been said about local consultation but frankly i feel it's insulting to our first

[4:00:16] Voice 14: nation colleagues to consult without the right to have decision-making authority and it's the

[4:00:22] Voice 14: best we can do right now but it's not good enough and so i would like to see us push back in that

[4:00:29] Voice 14: direction with the province however that is with the senior officials with whatever that is i would

[4:00:34] Voice 14: like us to push back on the reconciliation components and i would like us to get our

[4:00:38] Voice 14: trust policy statement passed before the end of this term in whatever form it is it's going to

[4:00:43] Voice 14: be better than what it is right now okay so let's just move forward on that thank

[4:00:50] Trustee Patrick: you very much next

[4:00:51] Trustee Patrick: on the list um i agree with what we've been hearing on reconciliation and representation

[4:01:01] Trustee Patrick: and yes, a year ago, former MLA Olson

[4:01:06] Trustee Patrick: made that very clear and I think we all know

[4:01:09] Trustee Patrick: we have limitations of what we can do. We cannot sort out

[4:01:14] Trustee Patrick: representation from a democratic standpoint at this

[4:01:18] Trustee Patrick: table without the province. On the other aspect,

[4:01:23] Trustee Patrick: last month we had a meeting at Bowen Island Municipality

[4:01:26] Trustee Patrick: the executive committee with the council and

[4:01:30] Trustee Patrick: And Mary Andrew Leonard asked a bit about the structure question.

[4:01:34] Trustee Patrick: How is structure a problem?

[4:01:37] Trustee Patrick: He presented that to us.

[4:01:39] Trustee Patrick: And I responded explaining all the structure that we do have.

[4:01:46] Trustee Patrick: 12 local trust committees, advisory planning committees, trust council, five standing committees.

[4:01:53] Trustee Patrick: And that we're really good at meeting.

[4:01:56] Trustee Patrick: Planning for meetings, holding meetings, and having meetings.

[4:01:58] Trustee Patrick: and we're so good at it that we're not getting else you know that so the structure in some way

[4:02:05] Trustee Patrick: has has grown there's things that we can do about the structure and i think we're we're taking those

[4:02:12] Trustee Patrick: those steps where we've got our strategic plan next iteration would be maybe to reimagine how

[4:02:20] Trustee Patrick: we put our committees in alignment with the work that we say was strategically important that

[4:02:24] Trustee Patrick: That's structure that we can control.

[4:02:27] Trustee Patrick: The structure that gets a little more complicated is,

[4:02:29] Trustee Patrick: do we need 12 local trust committees?

[4:02:31] Trustee Patrick: You know, questions that Trustee Middleton was asking

[4:02:34] Trustee Patrick: about the Saterna, some of the islands.

[4:02:37] Trustee Patrick: That's a harder thing that we're not going to fix ourselves

[4:02:40] Trustee Patrick: because you're going to vote ourselves off the islands.

[4:02:43] Trustee Patrick: You know, those are complex.

[4:02:45] Trustee Patrick: That's where you need external advice.

[4:02:48] Trustee Patrick: Either we pay to get or the province pays to get

[4:02:51] Trustee Patrick: or someone does that.

[4:02:53] Trustee Patrick: So, I think there's a lot of thinking about the structure, and I think there's some of it is communications, a lot of it's communications.

[4:03:05] Trustee Patrick: The mandate is the mandate, but it's not the what we do necessarily.

[4:03:11] Trustee Patrick: What we do is we're community, you know, we've been given tools that kind of limit the what we do.

[4:03:15] Trustee Patrick: We do community planning, you know, and I think we need to find better ways to communicate that.

[4:03:20] Trustee Patrick: the mandate is that you know kind of the the filter in which we do these things um so i think

[4:03:30] Trustee Patrick: there's a lot of questioning of you know what can we do ourselves how can we fix structure to make

[4:03:35] Trustee Patrick: us more efficient and and where does that stop and where do we need external advice or professional

[4:03:40] Trustee Patrick: professional support uh to um um do that um the rest of the letter for me was more about status

[4:03:53] Trustee Patrick: quo you know even even his reference to carrying capacity i know that the minister is not looking

[4:04:01] Trustee Patrick: at our islands as a refuge for all the density that's getting increased in in cities i you know

[4:04:08] Trustee Patrick: He's Minister of Housing as well, and he absolutely has to be talking to us about maintaining healthy communities and the housing that we need.

[4:04:18] Trustee Patrick: And so I look forward to more conversations as to how we can dig deep into what structure is and how we can control and fix the structure that's within our control.

[4:04:30] Trustee Patrick: And what do we do about the bigger questions?

[4:04:33] Trustee Patrick: So lots of thinking.

[4:04:34] Trustee Patrick: I think more thinking as we go forward.

[4:04:36] Trustee Patrick: Some of it will solve itself with what we're doing.

[4:04:40] Trustee Patrick: and um i know someone's saying we have to have a break but we have uh should we go on for we have

[4:04:45] Trustee Patrick: only three more speakers and then have a break four more speakers can so with four more speakers

[4:04:50] Trustee Patrick: and then a break does that sound fine with everybody okay good that was the note that

[4:04:54] Trustee Patrick: someone handed me i was trying to read and talk at the same time can't do it okay i think we have

[4:04:59] Trustee Patrick: vice chair peterson uh

[4:05:03] Voice 10: thank you i really appreciate um this opportunity to hear everyone

[4:05:09] Voice 10: everyone, and for all of us to share our thoughts. Obviously, I'm going to repeat much of what

[4:05:17] Voice 10: other people have said, but I think that's okay. To start with, yeah, to me, it's no

[4:05:23] Voice 10: surprise that the minister declined to conduct what referred to in the letter as a sweeping

[4:05:29] Voice 10: review certainly we were advised by ministry staff to you know go with more

[4:05:40] Voice 10: discreet or more focused requests so I don't think that's a big surprise I

[4:05:45] Voice 10: think it is instructed instructive that the minister feels the need to reaffirm

[4:05:52] Voice 10: the ecological environmental aspects of the mandate that's instructive I also

[4:05:59] Voice 10: feel there's a a bit of a warning uh in here around the policy statement in particular um

[4:06:08] Voice 10: and where i really diverge uh with um with the minister is regarding the quote toolkit

[4:06:17] Voice 10: deliberately supplied by government um because when as others have said when it comes to

[4:06:24] Voice 10: relationship building and engagement with first nations respect of our commitment to meaningful

[4:06:28] Voice 10: meaningful reconciliation, the toolkit deliberately supplied is woefully inadequate.

[4:06:37] Voice 10: 31 plus First Nations in the trust area, no other local governing body or agency or whatever you

[4:06:46] Voice 10: want to call us is the sheer number of nations and indigenous governing bodies within the interest

[4:06:51] Voice 10: of their jurisdiction. And I would further argue that Unstressed does not have the financial and

[4:06:57] Voice 10: staff capacity to quote take particular care to ensure that engagement with the public and first

[4:07:03] Voice 10: nations are undertaken in a manner that demonstrates mutual respect and builds towards consensus

[4:07:10] Voice 10: so i strongly disagree that we have the toolbox um in in that respect and that then

[4:07:18] Voice 10: when it comes to first nations relationship building and engagement the toolbox has

[4:07:22] Voice 10: as glaring holes.

[4:07:25] Voice 10: Aside from the financial and staff capacity issues,

[4:07:29] Voice 10: we also lack the tools to address the expressed desires of First Nations

[4:07:34] Voice 10: to have meaningful representation and voices at our decision-making tables,

[4:07:39] Voice 10: let alone actual co-governance.

[4:07:43] Voice 10: So here we are where we are.

[4:07:48] Voice 10: To me, the next steps that make sense is to refocus in regards to the briefing.

[4:07:59] Voice 10: Absolutely, the request for increased provincial funding, to my mind, has to focus on this issue of our capacity to build these meaningful relationships,

[4:08:13] Voice 10: to to engage in the way that the minister is demanding with 31 plus nations and i think that

[4:08:23] Voice 10: that as the focus of a funding request um to the minister it's it's so cut and dried it's so stark

[4:08:32] Voice 10: that i think that is to me there's the obvious next step in terms of engaging with the minister

[4:08:38] Voice 10: In terms of what we can do internally, obviously there's a number of the recommendations from the governance report that were sort of contingent on what we were going to hear back.

[4:08:54] Voice 10: So we need to go back and look at that and see what of those can we actually do.

[4:09:00] Voice 10: And those that we can't, we need to shelve for now.

[4:09:03] Voice 10: That's just the reality.

[4:09:06] Voice 10: Clearly, we need to update and implement the Reconciliation Action Plan to the best of

[4:09:12] Voice 10: our ability within the capacity that we do have, and develop tailored public engagement

[4:09:19] Voice 10: processes that acknowledge preferred engagement methods of Indigenous peoples.

[4:09:26] Voice 10: I think it's time we have to refocus our request to the minister, and it has to be

[4:09:36] Voice 10: clear and concise but it also has to be bold and forthright we simply cannot do

[4:09:42] Voice 10: the job that the minister is directing us to do in this letter with with the

[4:09:48] Voice 10: capacity that we have financially and staff wise if we were to tax to the

[4:09:55] Voice 10: level that would make that possible oh my goodness so that's where I think we

[4:10:05] Voice 10: need to refocus. Thank you.

[4:10:07] Trustee Patrick: Thank you very much. Trustee Stanford. Oh, I'm here. Yep.

[4:10:17] Trustee Patrick: You're next.

[4:10:19] Trustee Stamford: Okay. I was waiting for Scott, or Trustee Scott, but I guess he's not there. So

[4:10:26] Trustee Stamford: much of what I was thinking about, I really appreciate. People have been so much more

[4:10:32] Trustee Stamford: eloquent than I. Really good discussion. I hope there is somebody recording this

[4:10:38] Trustee Stamford: and that we can collate these as a background for us going forward.

[4:10:44] Trustee Stamford: There's so many things brought up.

[4:10:47] Trustee Stamford: I'm trying to pick out different texts here.

[4:10:51] Trustee Stamford: When we talk about we are a creature of the province,

[4:10:55] Trustee Stamford: all the regional districts are creatures of the province.

[4:10:59] Trustee Stamford: There are differences, but I would like to see us work more closely,

[4:11:06] Trustee Stamford: especially at UBCM, especially in local government reform, with our regional district

[4:11:14] Trustee Stamford: neighbors. Because what I'm understanding is the province doesn't have the answers.

[4:11:21] Trustee Stamford: And when we talk about reconciliation, yeah, not everybody has 31 nations, but there's the same

[4:11:29] Trustee Stamford: same stress of what is being asked, how do we move forward, where are the lanes, how

[4:11:36] Trustee Stamford: do we mesh relationship building with our very, very restrictive legislative structure

[4:11:46] Trustee Stamford: that is based on something that doesn't fit with what we think of as relationship building.

[4:11:53] Trustee Stamford: We need to work with our other local governance bodies that are similar to us so that we present a united front.

[4:12:04] Trustee Stamford: With this co-governance, co-management, I think we're heading there anyway.

[4:12:12] Trustee Stamford: And I don't think it's going to come from the province. I don't think it's coming from us.

[4:12:15] Trustee Stamford: It's going to come from the nations themselves.

[4:12:17] Trustee Stamford: themselves and that is part of the difficulty i think that the province is having is it it's not

[4:12:25] Trustee Stamford: them so i am working with a land use plan with the sechelt nation and the province is supporting it

[4:12:34] Trustee Stamford: but it's definitely coming from the sechelt i also understand that the same land use plan which

[4:12:43] Trustee Stamford: which is basically a form of co-management,

[4:12:47] Trustee Stamford: is going to be started with the Squamish Nation.

[4:12:52] Trustee Stamford: They're looking at beginning those talks this week.

[4:12:56] Trustee Stamford: Again, it's not, the province is coming along with it.

[4:13:01] Trustee Stamford: It's not directing it.

[4:13:03] Trustee Stamford: It's coming from the nations themselves.

[4:13:06] Trustee Stamford: And I think that's where we'll go in the end,

[4:13:09] Trustee Stamford: especially in the rural areas,

[4:13:11] Trustee Stamford: is how does that whole new structure impact the island's trust

[4:13:17] Trustee Stamford: and maybe make the whole system irrelevant?

[4:13:22] Trustee Stamford: And that's how we move forward.

[4:13:24] Trustee Stamford: But nobody seems to have a plan.

[4:13:27] Trustee Stamford: And I'm finding that the province really doesn't have the tools.

[4:13:31] Trustee Stamford: They don't know what the answer is yet.

[4:13:34] Trustee Stamford: And I think they're hoping for something to be created

[4:13:38] Trustee Stamford: as the process moves forward.

[4:13:40] Trustee Stamford: So that's more what I'm concerned about, is they also don't have the answers.

[4:13:45] Trustee Stamford: And we could ask and ask, but in the end, they have so many other priorities, and the whole province is asking for the same kind of, the same questions as we are.

[4:13:59] Trustee Stamford: So those are the kinds of things that I'm thinking of over and above all the other stuff that's being so wonderfully presented this afternoon.

[4:14:10] Trustee Stamford: So I'm going to leave it at that. Thank you.

[4:14:13] Trustee Patrick: Thank you. And finally, Trustee Yates, I promise I'll go the other way around next time we do an alphabet list.

[4:14:19] Trustee Patrick: So, Trustee Yates.

[4:14:22] Voice 24: Thank you, Chair Patrick. And thank you especially for this roundtable, which I find really inspiring.

[4:14:29] Voice 24: And I am so glad we are here in person because if we were all on Zoom at this point, I'd be napping, I think.

[4:14:36] Voice 24: but i'm i'm just so i'm i'm just so energized by all of your comments um i find so much in common

[4:14:47] Voice 24: by every everything that everyone has said around the table so i'll try to be really brief i actually

[4:14:53] Voice 24: welcomed this letter it was like okay finally we have some kind of an answer here um i was

[4:15:01] Voice 24: pleasantly surprised by the fact that I kind of took it as a mandate letter okay

[4:15:07] Voice 24: this is your work get busy and do this work so that part I really appreciate it

[4:15:15] Voice 24: the third paragraph talks about unique amenities and it talks about the

[4:15:21] Voice 24: ecological mandate never in all my years working and supporting the trust that

[4:15:27] Voice 24: that would be 40 years now, have I ever found those to be at odds? I can do both. I ran on

[4:15:35] Voice 24: the ecological mandate, but I also ran on the fact that I work all the time in public education,

[4:15:42] Voice 24: public transportation, community investment, and equitable housing in my community. And I probably

[4:15:50] Voice 24: got voted on all of those things so I'm really glad that Minister Calhoun talked

[4:15:57] Voice 24: about both of those things because if we didn't have an ecological mandate we

[4:16:03] Voice 24: would just be a municipal council so we do have we do have a special purpose and

[4:16:09] Voice 24: I don't think any of us ignore that in our work I was heartened by the last

[4:16:16] Voice 24: paragraph where the minister says we have a strong working relationship

[4:16:21] Voice 24: between our staff and the land use planning and regional impacts branch and

[4:16:28] Voice 24: we are encouraged to contact them okay let's go with that let's not forget that

[4:16:34] Voice 24: because that is really important I was heartened by that last paragraph because

[4:16:43] Voice 24: Because like so many of you have already said around this table, we have to, in order to fulfill the provincial mandate of what we are also supposed to be doing, it's not just for the people who live on our islands.

[4:16:57] Voice 24: We have a provincial mandate for the people who visit the islands and who want to support the Islands Trust.

[4:17:05] Voice 24: We have to have more financial support for that.

[4:17:09] Voice 24: We have to.

[4:17:10] Voice 24: and particularly i've i've noticed that whenever we have first nations guests and visitors and

[4:17:18] Voice 24: opening uh ceremonies it sets us on such a good path it's like we know we're doing the right work

[4:17:26] Voice 24: why can't we have these wonderful um advisors and elders at this table i mean i just love the idea

[4:17:36] Voice 24: of having an elders advisory group working with us all the time but that requires money

[4:17:45] Voice 24: and that's a clear ask to the province to say we want to do this we've been told we should do this

[4:17:51] Voice 24: we feel like we should all be doing this we need help to do this and perhaps just lastly i want to

[4:18:00] Voice 24: to thank Trustee Mel Ponder there for this suggestion that we might think about that

[4:18:08] Voice 24: governance review in a different way, because I want to be really blunt here. I've always thought

[4:18:14] Voice 24: that it was a red herring and somewhat of an error and a mistake. I know how it came about.

[4:18:20] Voice 24: I was there. I think at this point, we know how to govern ourselves. We know what the work is that

[4:18:27] Voice 24: we need to do let's put the money and the effort into the work for our communities

[4:18:35] Voice 24: that really needs to be done and into this council that really needs to be done thank you

[4:18:42] Trustee Patrick: well thank you trustees i think for next steps we do have the letter we have requested a meeting

[4:18:47] Trustee Patrick: with with the minister with staff and the executive really to talk about and create

[4:18:54] Trustee Patrick: the relationship that we should have directly. While we say we're small, we have 35,000 people

[4:19:01] Trustee Patrick: that live in these islands. We have more coastline than any other regional district or community in

[4:19:08] Trustee Patrick: at least the southern half of the British Columbia. We're important, and we need to have a relationship

[4:19:14] Trustee Patrick: that's far more than a 15-minute speed date at UBCM. We need to really create a good relationship

[4:19:21] Trustee Patrick: with the ministry. And I think that's our next step. And I think the conversations about how

[4:19:26] Trustee Patrick: to improve things are going to carry on in the committees. The work that we're doing is going

[4:19:30] Trustee Patrick: to carry on and we will talk more. So thank you, everyone. We're going to now take a break because

[4:19:36] Trustee Patrick: you more than deserved it. And so 15 minutes and we'll come back and carry on with some of

[4:19:40] Trustee Patrick: the material from tomorrow's agenda before we have MLA Botterall's coming.

[4:37:27] Trustee Patrick: seeing we're doing really good on time

[4:37:29] Trustee Patrick: we're going to move ahead to tomorrow's item

[4:37:31] Trustee Patrick: item number 16

[4:37:33] Trustee Patrick: legislative and information services

[4:37:35] Trustee Patrick: that begins on page 256

[4:37:37] Trustee Patrick: in your agenda package if that's

[4:37:39] Trustee Patrick: okay with everyone I'll give you a

[4:37:41] Trustee Patrick: moment to find that in your

[4:37:44] Trustee Patrick: agendas I'm going to be

[4:37:46] Trustee Patrick: introducing director Marler who

[4:37:48] Trustee Patrick: will be leading

[4:37:51] Trustee Patrick: much of this conversation

[4:37:54] Trustee Patrick: so it's over to you

[4:37:56] Voice 27: yeah thank you

[4:37:57] Voice 27: you. So item 1611 on page 256 of the agenda package is the director's report. I don't have

[4:38:08] Voice 27: anything to add to it, but I can answer questions. Are there any questions for the director?

[4:38:15] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Evans.

[4:38:18] Voice 12: Could you just go over Bill 13 in a little bit more detail? I read through what you

[4:38:24] Voice 12: you had in here. But I was just wondering if you could expand on it a little bit. Thanks.

[4:38:31] Voice 27: Yeah, thank you. So Bill 13 is Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act. It makes quite a few

[4:38:38] Voice 27: changes to different pieces of legislation. The one that applies to Islands Trust is the

[4:38:44] Voice 27: amendments to the elections. There's quite a few election changes, very minor. But what

[4:38:51] Voice 27: What it does there is it makes it clear that in certain situations listed in the Act,

[4:39:00] Voice 27: it's usually when a trustee is elected and then disqualified,

[4:39:04] Voice 27: it will give trust counsel the ability to appoint until an election can be held.

[4:39:11] Voice 27: So it's consistent with the way they're handling the regional districts.

[4:39:15] Voice 27: Municipalities are actually allowing that to happen for different reasons,

[4:39:20] Voice 27: But for Islands Trust and regional districts, it's a very specific situation that would trigger that to happen.

[4:39:26] Voice 27: So, for example, if a trustee decides not to quit, it would just go as normal.

[4:39:35] Voice 27: You would just have a vacancy until you hold a by-election.

[4:39:38] Voice 27: So this change really is trying to just capture those situations that are very rare.

[4:39:45] Voice 27: It's never happened as long as I've been here.

[4:39:47] Voice 27: But they just need to have something in place in case it does happen.

[4:39:51] Voice 27: So Bill 13 received royal assent on May 29th.

[4:39:55] Voice 27: It will not come into effect until the next election.

[4:39:59] Voice 27: So it only applies starting with the next general election.

[4:40:02] Voice 27: So the intent is that Bill 13 will not apply to any by-elections that need to occur between now and then.

[4:40:10] Voice 27: Thanks.

[4:40:11] Voice 22: Trustee Morrison?

[4:40:14] Voice 14: Thank you.

[4:40:15] Voice 14: I had concerns about Bill 15.

[4:40:18] Voice 14: that actually bill 14 which i didn't see there but that um so bill 14 was to do with renewable

[4:40:25] Voice 14: energy um and bill 15 is infrastructure to for my read and maybe you could clarify this

[4:40:31] Voice 14: the way that those bills went forward they could basically override anything inside the

[4:40:37] Voice 14: islands trust act if they saw that a project was of greater public good in some way is that

[4:40:43] Voice 14: accurate?

[4:40:47] Voice 27: Yes. Bill 14, I don't have a lot of

[4:40:49] Voice 27: details on it, and I included Bill 15 because it specifically

[4:40:52] Voice 27: addresses the Islands Trust Act. It actually puts in a

[4:40:57] Voice 27: new provision in the Islands Trust Act that makes it subservient to the

[4:41:01] Voice 27: Infrastructure Projects Act. Essentially, they've done that with the local government act

[4:41:05] Voice 27: as well for their planning powers. There's not really a lot

[4:41:09] Voice 27: known about it right now. It's a very vague act.

[4:41:13] Voice 27: It doesn't define anything.

[4:41:15] Voice 27: It doesn't even define what an infrastructure project would be.

[4:41:19] Voice 27: So it could be anything.

[4:41:21] Voice 27: It will not come into force until regulations are in place.

[4:41:26] Voice 27: And I suspect the regulations will provide the details and answer those questions.

[4:41:32] Trustee Patrick: And as well, Emily Butter will be here soon, who we could also question on that act too.

[4:41:37] Trustee Patrick: But please follow up.

[4:41:38] Trustee Patrick: so

[4:41:39] Voice 14: uh clarification just in conversations i had with organizations across british columbia around

[4:41:43] Voice 14: 14 and 15 is that um there is potential that infrastructure could be things like a pipeline

[4:41:49] Voice 14: so just not that they would do it but it could be included a pipeline yeah

[4:41:57] Voice 27: it could be anything

[4:41:57] Voice 27: could be a school could be a road could be pipelines until we get the regulations that

[4:42:02] Voice 27: provide the definitions we won't know okay

[4:42:04] Trustee Patrick: trustee maberly thank

[4:42:08] Voice 9: you chair um so going back to bill

[4:42:10] Voice 9: 13 um are there parameters around appointing a person like that seems a little vague here right

[4:42:20] Voice 27: um yeah yeah again i suspect there'll be some regulations that will come out that will provide

[4:42:25] Voice 27: more information it does say it needs to be somebody that's a resident of the area for

[4:42:31] Voice 27: election so it could be anybody council could pick somebody from a particular island it's not

[4:42:37] Voice 27: the local trust committee that gets to pick its trust council so if somebody on uh say galliano

[4:42:42] Voice 27: island uh was elected and then after the election it was determined that they're disqualified for

[4:42:49] Voice 27: whatever reason or they were not eligible in the first place um that vacancy council would

[4:42:55] Voice 27: be able to appoint that individual

[4:42:57] Voice 27: until there's

[4:42:59] Voice 27: a by-election can be held further down

[4:43:01] Voice 27: the road.

[4:43:04] Voice 27: Yeah, it would have to be somebody

[4:43:06] Voice 27: Right, okay.

[4:43:12] Voice 16: Trustee Getty?

[4:43:14] Voice 16: In your comment about Bill 15

[4:43:16] Voice 16: it seems to suggest that

[4:43:20] Voice 16: Trust Council

[4:43:21] Voice 16: could request the Lieutenant

[4:43:23] Voice 16: Gubernatorial Counsel expedite an infrastructure

[4:43:24] Voice 16: project, so that's from us

[4:43:26] Voice 16: asking for a faster

[4:43:29] Voice 16: process. Is that the general pattern that they would be following? Yeah,

[4:43:41] Voice 27: I find that interesting

[4:43:42] Voice 27: too. It doesn't read that you can request that the Islands Trust Act be adhered to. It reads that

[4:43:50] Voice 27: you can request that the Islands Trust Act be ignored in certain situations. And that's allowed

[4:43:55] Voice 27: for any local government. So a local government could say, you know, we don't want you to have

[4:44:02] Voice 27: to follow the planning rules in the part 14 of the local government act so i find that a little odd

[4:44:07] Voice 27: and again until we see the regulation i'm not sure how that plays out trustee

[4:44:14] Trustee Patrick: workwick uh yeah

[4:44:17] Voice 29: i was just gonna this is more for information i just wanted to sort of uh point out that um

[4:44:23] Voice 29: uh the union of british columbia indian chiefs voted uh you're unanimously uh opposed uh bill

[4:44:31] Voice 29: Bill 14 and 15 as well, because it can override any environmental or reconciliation consultation.

[4:44:39] Voice 29: So that's worth, I think, bearing in mind.

[4:44:44] Voice 22: Trustee Boland?

[4:44:50] Voice 15: I think, first of all, I think the definition of expedite and the conditions around expedite

[4:44:56] Voice 15: would need to be clarified because it could be expedited, but within the terms and conditions.

[4:45:03] Voice 15: It's just like, give us some more resources and do it fast track, which is perfectly legitimate.

[4:45:12] Voice 15: But I'm also curious because it says a local government.

[4:45:16] Voice 15: So what happens if we, the Islands Trust, ask for expedited whatever it is and the COD or a regional district says, no, we don't or vice versa?

[4:45:28] Voice 15: Thanks.

[4:45:31] Voice 27: Yeah, I'm not even sure the legislature thought of that.

[4:45:34] Voice 27: That's a unique situation because usually it would be a local government

[4:45:38] Voice 27: who would have all the controls and here there's planning versus what the regional district

[4:45:42] Voice 27: has. Yeah, I don't have the answer to that, what would happen in that situation.

[4:45:48] Voice 22: Trustee Bernardo?

[4:45:50] Voice 11: With respect to this

[4:45:52] Voice 11: Bill 15 business, are we clear

[4:45:58] Voice 11: in what counts as a local government for the purposes of the Islands Trust

[4:46:02] Voice 11: because Trust Council is actually not

[4:46:06] Voice 11: not a government. It's a convention

[4:46:10] Voice 11: of governors from the LTC. So I would

[4:46:14] Voice 11: think if the LTC can do this, it's got nothing to do with trust counts.

[4:46:21] Voice 11: The LTC putting in a request

[4:46:25] Voice 11: directly to the government could actually trump the trust policy

[4:46:29] Voice 11: statement.

[4:46:32] Voice 27: Yeah, so those are good points. Yeah, this is

[4:46:34] Voice 27: here because you're all together and it's just in my report. I should have made that clear.

[4:46:38] Voice 27: the Infrastructure Projects Act defines it as local trust committees

[4:46:44] Voice 27: because they're responsible for the land use planning.

[4:46:47] Voice 27: And yeah, you're correct.

[4:46:48] Voice 27: If a local trust committee wants to expedite something

[4:46:51] Voice 27: and that requires ignoring the Island's Trust Policy Statement,

[4:46:55] Voice 27: that could be an issue for council and for the executive committee.

[4:46:58] Voice 27: And again, I have no idea how that is planned to be worked out in reality.

[4:47:07] Trustee Patrick: All right. Go ahead, Trustee Brown.

[4:47:09] Voice 11: To be clear, I'm not counseling mischief.

[4:47:14] Trustee Patrick: I know I did question Rob Butterall at a recent event on when the regulations are expected.

[4:47:21] Trustee Patrick: He was expecting that they were going to be coming soon, but there's an unknown date.

[4:47:25] Trustee Patrick: I think a lot of the details are going to be in these regulations that are going to be coming out.

[4:47:32] Trustee Patrick: Okay, if there are no further questions then on the director's report, can we approve item 16.1.1,

[4:47:38] Trustee Patrick: on the quarterly report through general consent.

[4:47:41] Trustee Patrick: Great.

[4:47:42] Trustee Patrick: And now we're gonna move on to some decision-making.

[4:47:45] Trustee Patrick: We have 16.2.1, Trust Council By-law 197,

[4:47:51] Trustee Patrick: Meeting Procedure By-law on page 258.

[4:47:54] Trustee Patrick: Over to you, Director Marler.

[4:47:56] Voice 27: Yes, thank you.

[4:47:57] Voice 27: So Trust Council gives this by-law

[4:47:59] Voice 27: first, second, and third readings at the last meeting.

[4:48:03] Voice 27: Normally that would just come back for adoption

[4:48:06] Voice 27: through resolution of that meeting.

[4:48:08] Voice 27: you're asked for that to come back here for consideration of adoption.

[4:48:14] Voice 27: So any of the edits or any of the changes that Trust Council requested at first, second, third reading

[4:48:20] Voice 27: have been incorporated into this document.

[4:48:24] Voice 27: So it is ready for consideration of adoption.

[4:48:29] Voice 27: So the resolution would be that Trust Council adopt bylaw 197.

[4:48:40] Voice 21: Thank you, Trustee Boland.

[4:48:48] Voice 15: So, we did receive correspondence about this from a former trustee who took a huge interest in procedure.

[4:49:04] Voice 15: And obviously, gremlins, but anyway, he did write something in great detail and my eyes started to roll in my head when I read it.

[4:49:14] Voice 15: but you know he is a pretty reliable source and he is he does he is you know pays a lot of

[4:49:21] Voice 15: attention to these matters how are we going to handle his comments thanks yeah

[4:49:30] Voice 27: so those were

[4:49:31] Voice 27: kind of last minute i haven't had a opportunity to really take a close look i did have a general

[4:49:36] Voice 27: look at them um he did make one comment where i think it says chair and chairperson i can just

[4:49:42] Voice 27: clean that up those those types of things i can just go through and make sure it's being consistent

[4:49:48] Voice 27: in the language that's that's not a problem um a lot of his comments related to the way some of

[4:49:55] Voice 27: these uh sections are worded uh these are actually taken for the most part directly from your existing

[4:50:02] Voice 27: bylaws there's no significant changes so in some ways he's taking issue with your existing bylaws

[4:50:08] Voice 27: and whether or not we should be continuing that.

[4:50:11] Voice 27: So I think what I would recommend is that council continue

[4:50:16] Voice 27: as it plans to consider adoption.

[4:50:20] Voice 27: I will have a look closer at his comments.

[4:50:24] Voice 27: And if I see anything in there that I feel requires a change to the bylaw,

[4:50:30] Voice 27: I can certainly bring an amendment to you.

[4:50:32] Voice 27: It's easy to do that.

[4:50:33] Voice 27: Just bring it as an amendment to the bylaw down the road.

[4:50:36] Voice 27: and if you think there's something in there you can just email me and i'll take a look at it but

[4:50:42] Voice 27: i think that's the best way to handle it i don't want to dismiss it but at the same time um it's

[4:50:47] Voice 27: kind of last minute so it's not really something i've been able to have a really good look at and

[4:50:54] Voice 27: see if there's anything in there that warrants attention at this time

[4:50:59] Trustee Patrick: trustee peterson yeah

[4:51:03] Voice 10: yeah thank you chair um so i do have a little bit of concern and uh with um uh uh section 10

[4:51:12] Voice 10: on page 259 uh it's about uh two members of the local trust committee calling a special

[4:51:20] Voice 10: meeting and just maybe some clarity the last line um states uh except that notice to local

[4:51:28] Voice 10: trust committee members may be waived by unanimous vote can you just reassure me

[4:51:35] Voice 10: that that doesn't mean what it kind of looks like it means and

[4:51:43] Voice 27: so yeah so the

[4:51:44] Voice 27: intent there is that if if all three members agree at some point the special

[4:51:53] Voice 27: meeting can be called by two other members and that would be waiting that

[4:51:56] Voice 27: section so all three would have to agree to that waiver so two people could not

[4:52:02] Voice 27: call a meeting without the third person knowing unless the third person has

[4:52:07] Voice 27: agreed that yeah okay go ahead I'm not bothered about that sorry

[4:52:15] Voice 10: follow-up so

[4:52:15] Voice 10: that unanimous vote would have to take place at a meeting prior to the special

[4:52:20] Voice 10: meeting they call that's

[4:52:24] Voice 27: correct or by resolution of that meeting trustee

[4:52:30] Trustee Patrick: Yates?

[4:52:33] Voice 24: Sorry, my sticky note went on the wrong page. I meant to ask Director Marler about something

[4:52:37] Voice 24: on page 257, Mappet and Tapas. Of course, we get asked quite regularly, when will Mappet be

[4:52:47] Voice 24: available to the public? Any idea? I

[4:52:50] Trustee Patrick: was going to say, can we come back to that? Let's complete

[4:52:52] Trustee Patrick: this item, Trustee Yates, if you can park that, and then we'll come back to that if that's okay.

[4:52:57] Trustee Patrick: Okay. So thank you. Trustee Getty?

[4:53:01] Trustee Patrick: In

[4:53:02] Voice 16: the answer to Trustee Bullen's comment in terms of the

[4:53:05] Voice 16: letter that we got, I went through the details

[4:53:10] Voice 16: and I think that it was a lot of, it helped with some

[4:53:14] Voice 16: things that may or may not have been confusing, but I didn't think it changed the substance at all.

[4:53:18] Voice 16: So I think there could be amendments later in terms of

[4:53:22] Voice 16: polishing it up.

[4:53:29] Trustee Patrick: Who's next, Peter?

[4:53:30] Trustee Patrick: Oh, Trustee Blackham, are we ready?

[4:53:37] Trustee Patrick: Did you have other comments or questions?

[4:53:38] Trustee Patrick: Okay, please proceed with the motion, Trustee Blackham.

[4:53:40] Voice 27: Before I do, I just want to remind everybody, if you may, is this to be adopted or something else?

[4:53:46] Voice 27: Okay.

[4:53:47] Voice 27: This is an adoption by two-third vote.

[4:53:51] Voice 27: So can I just confirm how many people we have in the room with Lisa and online?

[4:54:03] Voice 27: Okay, so it's 24 trustees.

[4:54:06] Voice 27: So that requires 16 for it to pass, just so you're aware.

[4:54:10] Voice 27: and that includes abstains. Thanks.

[4:54:14] Voice 21: She

[4:54:14] Trustee Patrick: can ask a question.

[4:54:18] Trustee Patrick: Oh, yeah, sorry. Yeah,

[4:54:20] Voice 32: microphone. Is that correct?

[4:54:21] Voice 32: Oh, my microphone. I just heard it. Oh, yeah.

[4:54:23] Voice 30: So

[4:54:24] Voice 32: I'll move the Trust Council adopt bylaw number 197-2024

[4:54:29] Voice 32: as presented.

[4:54:32] Trustee Patrick: Is there a second? Seconded by Trustee

[4:54:34] Trustee Patrick: Bernardo. Is there any discussion? Trustee Peterson?

[4:54:40] Voice 10: Yeah, I'm, as at March,

[4:54:43] Voice 10: I'm still not in favor of this bylaw superseding the local meeting procedures

[4:54:51] Voice 10: bylaws so state that in advance I'll be voting against the motion any further

[4:54:57] Trustee Patrick: just

[4:54:58] Voice 12: a trustee Evans two comments with regards the letter I also read the

[4:55:04] Voice 12: letter in detail I didn't think that there was any substantive changes that

[4:55:09] Voice 12: would that would be needed but they can be reviewed and looked at for future

[4:55:13] Voice 12: sure clarification should that be required i am in favor of this um superseding the local

[4:55:21] Voice 12: meeting procedure by law because it brings in elements that we're missing from some areas

[4:55:28] Voice 12: and creates a uniform meeting procedure by law that helps reduce the amount of workload

[4:55:36] Voice 12: workload from having 13 of them. So I will be voting in favor.

[4:55:42] Voice 12: Trustee Boland, do

[4:55:43] Trustee Patrick: you have your discussion?

[4:55:46] Voice 15: I did have a question, which was just,

[4:55:48] Voice 15: is it because it's a policy that two-thirds are required, or could you just,

[4:55:53] Voice 15: I don't, you know, why do we need two-thirds?

[4:55:58] Voice 27: This bylaw is authorized in the Section 11 of the Arms Trust Act, and Section 11 says any bylaw

[4:56:04] Voice 27: like this requires a two-third vote so it's legislation that requires it okay

[4:56:10] Trustee Patrick: any further

[4:56:11] Trustee Patrick: oh now we have lots of discussion so

[4:56:12] Voice 5: trustee folk i will be voting against it because i think the

[4:56:18] Voice 5: local trust committees should have autonomy and that's kind of what the whole setup is here that

[4:56:24] Voice 5: we should have unique opportunities for each island to set their own trustee bernardo uh i

[4:56:32] Voice 11: I will be voting in favor of the motion because the efficiencies for the staff offered by doing this will translate into, frankly, time and money savings and way less inconvenience in terms of organizing local trust committee meetings and, you know, related meetings, you know, public information and that sort of thing.

[4:56:57] Voice 11: um and although i appreciate the point that um local discretion is always to be jealously guarded

[4:57:05] Voice 11: uh this is not in a sense a substantive issue that affects policy or land use planning

[4:57:12] Voice 11: in a local trust area it's it's really a procedural thing we're already bound at the

[4:57:20] Voice 11: local trust committee level um at a number of different levels about how we do things

[4:57:25] Voice 11: and it doesn't interfere with our ability

[4:57:27] Voice 11: to exercise local discretion

[4:57:29] Voice 11: and I don't think this will either.

[4:57:31] Voice 22: Trustee Fowler?

[4:57:34] Voice 22: Thank you.

[4:57:35] Voice 22: Speaking with my financial planning committee chair hat on,

[4:57:39] Voice 22: I also appreciate the streamlining

[4:57:42] Voice 22: and reducing the administration required

[4:57:45] Voice 22: in this fairly simple bylaw,

[4:57:47] Voice 22: but reducing costs,

[4:57:50] Voice 22: but also wearing my former local trust committee chair hat

[4:57:55] Voice 22: and thinking about the agendas I needed to approve and things where I needed to.

[4:58:03] Voice 22: Anyway, I'm happy that it adds guidance in terms of delegations, decorum and public participation that were not in all of the LTC bylaws that I worked with.

[4:58:17] Voice 22: And I think that would be helpful to have that more broadly in the key documents.

[4:58:23] Voice 22: Thank you. So I'll be voting in favor.

[4:58:26] Voice 21: trustee maverly thank

[4:58:29] Voice 9: you chair um yeah i'll be voting against this motion um for the same reasons

[4:58:34] Voice 9: that uh trustee peterson uh talked about and we talked about this before i believe it was last

[4:58:41] Voice 9: time this came for us but um yeah i'll be voting against it just i prefer the local economy

[4:58:48] Voice 22: trustee

[4:58:49] Voice 22: middleton thank

[4:58:52] Voice 2: you i'm just uh you'll uh may recall that uh former vice chair grahams once

[4:58:56] Voice 2: once referred to the proceedings on Saturna as anarchic to the point of nihilism.

[4:59:01] Voice 2: And I'm wondering that with this bylaw, if those normal,

[4:59:05] Voice 2: thinking of our poor Chair Maude, who is doing a stellar job

[4:59:09] Voice 2: of navigating some of the strong personalities on their own,

[4:59:13] Voice 2: if we violate the principles of this bylaw, which I have no doubt we will,

[4:59:20] Voice 2: what are the consequences?

[4:59:21] Voice 2: Can it be deemed that our meeting isn't somehow, you know, not legally constituted because our proceedings were not, the proceedings didn't follow the policy, our speaker spoke for more than three minutes?

[4:59:33] Voice 2: Is it to be used in a predatory manner? I'm asking because Trustee Bernardo is often concerned about this and I've got good feelings for him.

[4:59:43] Voice 2: So, thank you.

[4:59:45] Trustee Patrick: Turn to Director Marler.

[4:59:48] Trustee Patrick: well

[4:59:48] Voice 27: yeah it's interesting like your local trust community bylaw it's sort of self-policing

[4:59:54] Voice 27: so if you as the chair finding is things are going wrong and you've got the

[5:00:00] Voice 27: law to support you and that's what you will go to council won't be policing it will be the local

[5:00:05] Voice 27: trust committee any

[5:00:08] Trustee Patrick: further any further discussion all right trustees oh oh oh okay thank you

[5:00:21] Trustee Patrick: okay all right so about to vote then you know what we're voting voting to adopt this bylaw

[5:00:26] Trustee Patrick: all those in favor raise your hand 16. okay lower your hands we'll vote for those opposed please

[5:00:45] Trustee Patrick: raise your hands so as i understand we have two-thirds vote so it is carried thank you trustees

[5:01:01] Trustee Patrick: okay we're going to keep moving here we have item 16.2.2 which is the draft policy 4.1.1

[5:01:08] Trustee Patrick: oh sorry oh sorry trustee yates did we want to go back and circle back on your question

[5:01:16] Voice 24: yes and i'm sorry i missed it um i just wanted to ask director marler if we had any estimated

[5:01:21] Voice 24: time of arrival for MAP-IT.

[5:01:26] Voice 27: Yeah, so MAP-IT is interesting.

[5:01:29] Voice 27: The problem with MAP-IT, the problem, just so everybody's

[5:01:34] Voice 27: understanding, just to take you back, MAP-IT, or MAP-IT, the original

[5:01:38] Voice 27: is built on a platform called Geocortex.

[5:01:41] Voice 27: And that platform was actually created by

[5:01:46] Voice 27: Stephen Myhill-Jones, who some of you may be aware of.

[5:01:50] Voice 27: He used to work at the Allen's Trust, and he was our IT GIS coordinator.

[5:01:56] Voice 27: So he built the Geocortex almost specifically for what we needed,

[5:02:00] Voice 27: and then he went into his own business, and Geocortex became a bigger thing.

[5:02:05] Voice 27: We continue to host it on there.

[5:02:07] Voice 27: That platform is obsolete.

[5:02:10] Voice 27: It's essentially been bought out, and it's no longer available to us.

[5:02:15] Voice 27: So we're unable to keep MapIT, the original, for that reason.

[5:02:19] Voice 27: So I had to switch to a new platform called Esri, which is pretty consistent across the board for GIS.

[5:02:27] Voice 27: Unfortunately, Esri doesn't have all the functionality that we would like in Map IT.

[5:02:34] Voice 27: So some of the layers and how they're handled, the automation.

[5:02:38] Voice 27: So there's a lot of work going on with Daphne and Kendra to do some customizations

[5:02:45] Voice 27: and been working closely with representatives of Esri

[5:02:49] Voice 27: to try and make it work the way we want it to work.

[5:02:52] Voice 27: One of the biggest problems we had was that there's a security issue,

[5:02:57] Voice 27: so we couldn't make it public until we could plug that hole.

[5:03:01] Voice 27: And we're still in the process of doing that.

[5:03:03] Voice 27: So unfortunately, it's taking longer

[5:03:06] Voice 27: just because of all these different problems.

[5:03:08] Voice 27: But they're working on it.

[5:03:09] Voice 27: It's the priority of Daphne and Kendra to get that out,

[5:03:13] Voice 27: and they'll provide it as soon as possible i will ask kendra to give you guys another update

[5:03:18] Voice 27: as to where it's at because she was hoping to be able to let you know by the end of the month

[5:03:22] Voice 27: last month uh when it could release but we're not quite there yet so that's that's what's going on

[5:03:29] Voice 27: with map it thanks all

[5:03:32] Trustee Patrick: right any other questions there trustee hates that's it good uh okay now

[5:03:38] Trustee Patrick: Now we're back to 16.2.2, which is draft policy 4.1.16, the model public notice bylaw.

[5:03:45] Trustee Patrick: It's a request for decision.

[5:03:46] Trustee Patrick: It's on page 264 of your agenda.

[5:03:49] Trustee Patrick: Over to you, Director Marler.

[5:03:51] Voice 27: Yeah, thank you.

[5:03:52] Voice 27: So this is a little different in the sense that the last bylaw is a procedure bylaw,

[5:03:58] Voice 27: and Trust Council had the ability to create a single bylaw for all local trust committees.

[5:04:04] Voice 27: In this instance, the public notification bylaw and the legislation, Trust Council does not have that ability.

[5:04:13] Voice 27: This is a notification bylaw, it's not a procedure bylaw.

[5:04:16] Voice 27: So this is really up to the local trust committees to adopt.

[5:04:20] Voice 27: So in this instance, the intent is to draft a policy, which you'll see here is 4.1.16, which is a model public notice bylaw.

[5:04:29] Voice 27: And then the idea is that that would be a model, essentially, for local trust committees to follow.

[5:04:38] Voice 27: And then we would, if council adopts this, we would forward a copy of that to local trust committees and ask them to consider adoption.

[5:04:47] Voice 27: option. So, for those that are not aware, under the

[5:04:51] Voice 27: Local Government Act and the Community Charter,

[5:04:55] Voice 27: there's a default notice requirement for things like public hearings,

[5:05:00] Voice 27: for temporary use permits,

[5:05:03] Voice 27: and variance permits. And the default notice

[5:05:07] Voice 27: requires that you publish it in a newspaper that publishes

[5:05:11] Voice 27: at least once a week in the area and circulates in the area

[5:05:15] Voice 27: and that the application is about and that can be quite expensive because there's not a lot of

[5:05:23] Voice 27: local smaller papers so we have to use the more expensive bigger papers that technically circulate

[5:05:30] Voice 27: in the area but maybe people are not subscribing to them so it can cost thousands of dollars just

[5:05:36] Voice 27: to advertise and it requires two advertisements at least one week apart and it requires certain

[5:05:43] Voice 27: Certain types of applications require that the notice has to be in the paper a certain number of days before the meeting date, things like that.

[5:05:52] Voice 27: So the community charter allows local governments to adopt an alternative form of providing that public notice, and that would be done by a bylaw of the local government.

[5:06:08] Voice 27: So local trust committees have this ability as well.

[5:06:10] Voice 27: the legislation does put some onus on the local government to consider really three principles

[5:06:20] Voice 27: and that is is the source reliable so in other words it's a dependable trustworthy publication

[5:06:27] Voice 27: is it suitable so it works for the purpose for the public notice and is it accessible so

[5:06:34] Voice 27: So, you know, is it easy to access? People can find it.

[5:06:38] Voice 27: And considering that, there's things like, well, obviously online or print newspapers could probably fit that bill.

[5:06:46] Voice 27: And a website like the Islands Trust website would fit it.

[5:06:49] Voice 27: A community website could.

[5:06:51] Voice 27: Social media pages such as Islands Trust Facebook or X or some other form.

[5:06:57] Voice 27: and then direct mail, email or mail outs could also fit those criteria.

[5:07:04] Voice 27: It is up to each local trust committee to decide whether or not its bylaw has actually met those criteria

[5:07:11] Voice 27: and that can be in a variety of ways.

[5:07:14] Voice 27: It could just be in a staff report that identifies them before the trust committee adopts.

[5:07:19] Voice 27: It could be a preamble in the bylaw that says it considered this

[5:07:26] Voice 27: or it could just be built into a resolution but it has to be considered so the intent here then if

[5:07:33] Voice 27: you go down to page um 267 267 um is a model notice bylaw and the recommendation is that the um

[5:07:47] Voice 27: the notice sorry it's on the next page it's on page 268 uh that local trust committees consider

[5:07:55] Voice 27: consider using notice electronically by posting it on the Islands Trust website and also

[5:08:02] Voice 27: electronically by posting it on the Islands Trust social media platform. Interestingly, only one of

[5:08:08] Voice 27: those has to meet the time requirements. That is, if it has to be published between 10 days and

[5:08:15] Voice 27: at least three days before the meeting, only one of those has to meet that. The other one just has

[5:08:22] Voice 27: has to be up and posted before the meeting is held.

[5:08:26] Voice 27: So staff can obviously handle that.

[5:08:29] Voice 27: It's felt that these two options would probably work on all the islands,

[5:08:34] Voice 27: but, of course, you may disagree.

[5:08:37] Voice 27: So, anyway, this is a recommendation.

[5:08:39] Voice 27: I think if council adopts this,

[5:08:42] Voice 27: trust committees will be provided this as a draft bylaw.

[5:08:47] Voice 27: You can either say, yeah, this is good, we think it's reliable, accessible,

[5:08:51] Voice 27: accessible, and whatever the other one was, I can't remember, and adopt it as is. Or you might

[5:08:58] Voice 27: say for your island, no, we think something else needs to work here because maybe we don't have

[5:09:03] Voice 27: really good Wi-Fi and we need another way to get to the people. You can put that in, make that

[5:09:10] Voice 27: change. And when it comes to executive committee, can provide the rationale for not following this

[5:09:15] Voice 27: exactly. And it could still be approved. There's no, I don't see any issues with that.

[5:09:21] Voice 27: okay so i'm saying is some flexibility it's up to the local trust committees but it would be nice

[5:09:28] Voice 27: if trust committees could adopt a similar approach or use the same one for the same reasons of um

[5:09:36] Voice 27: having the same procedures at meeting it makes it easier for staff not to have to consider

[5:09:42] Voice 27: which island you're going to and what the posting requirements are okay i'll go back to the chair

[5:09:48] Voice 27: for any questions and there's a resolution at the top of the uh first page there on page 264.

[5:09:59] Voice 22: all right trustee morrison all

[5:10:03] Voice 14: right i'm gonna just try to say in like two sentences what i

[5:10:08] Voice 14: think this is doing so this is trying to make uniform a public notice process for posting public

[5:10:18] Voice 14: notices okay and it's specifically trying to do it through either the island's trust website

[5:10:25] Voice 14: or the social media feed okay so i understand that and i think and and yet local trust communities

[5:10:34] Voice 14: can also alter it slightly to add another detail if they want to okay that's great so i think that

[5:10:40] Voice 14: i'm in favor of this i understand the like financial blah blah i understand all the things

[5:10:45] Voice 14: we just said in the last time um i do think that this is slightly different than the meeting

[5:10:51] Voice 14: protocols because this is where i think the way communities communicate is nuanced so i think like

[5:10:59] Voice 14: on pender for instance the pender post needs to be on this list so and so like in south and north

[5:11:05] Voice 14: pender probably it needs to be on this list so um i think that would be my only thing but it's

[5:11:11] Voice 14: already in here so i'm good with that yeah

[5:11:16] Trustee Patrick: i think just to reiterate by what exists is the requirement

[5:11:20] Trustee Patrick: to be in the big newspapers if you don't change something this just gives you a format that when

[5:11:26] Trustee Patrick: you do consider this you could put those nuances of your of your local trust committee into this

[5:11:32] Trustee Patrick: when you would adopt this bylaw as a local trust committee bylaw oh

[5:11:37] Voice 14: yeah and if i can just add one

[5:11:39] Voice 14: thing about those newspaper things that's totally ridiculous we should not be doing that because

[5:11:43] Voice 14: spending a bunch of our money doing stuff where nobody actually ever sees it because our community

[5:11:46] Voice 14: members don't look at most of the right now that there are some people that look at the big

[5:11:50] Voice 14: newspapers but as a rule there's so much information in that they're not looking for

[5:11:54] Voice 14: land use notices necessarily in the like vancouver sun or the victoria whatever it is thank you

[5:11:59] Voice 21: trustee bernardo um

[5:12:02] Voice 11: we've um in gambert we've we've encountered uh the cost factor with respect

[5:12:10] Voice 11: back to doing public notices when we've had a number of the requirement to have a number of

[5:12:14] Voice 11: public meetings or hearings in succession and i've always been unhappy about spending thousands of

[5:12:21] Voice 11: dollars to put ads in papers that nobody reads um the virtue of this thing is its adaptability

[5:12:28] Voice 11: it's elective it's a model it's not obligatory we could pass it and an ltc is free to ignore it

[5:12:35] Voice 11: or adapt or adopt it or adopt it and make some changes so to the extent that you know we want

[5:12:42] Voice 11: to jealously guard our local autonomy this is kind of it so i'd be prepared to make the motion

[5:12:47] Voice 11: a

[5:12:48] Trustee Patrick: few more speakers here though trustee boland there's questions

[5:12:52] Voice 15: um i'm in support of this

[5:12:55] Voice 15: generally um however why are we not talking about the subscription option because uh you could use

[5:13:04] Voice 15: the subscription option you could promote it because um you can subscribe to your island only

[5:13:12] Voice 15: and if we started to really promote that i actually think receiving notification by email

[5:13:19] Voice 15: is probably much more rigorous than many of these so i would suggest that we add in

[5:13:26] Voice 15: as one of the options is the subscription to the email to the news and brackets subscribe

[5:13:34] Voice 15: for notices for your island only okay thanks that is

[5:13:41] Voice 27: listed as an option it's not recommended

[5:13:44] Voice 27: because it really depends on how far reaching your subscription service is that one of the

[5:13:51] Voice 27: problems with it is uh does it meet the test of being accessible to the public generally uh so

[5:13:58] Voice 27: obviously people that subscribe would get it but there may be other people that don't subscribe

[5:14:03] Voice 27: that would not get it so i wouldn't recommend that one but you can certainly consider it

[5:14:08] Voice 27: and it might work on your island depending on how wide reaching your subscription services

[5:14:14] Voice 15: follow up with with all due respect just to respond to that there are a lot of people who

[5:14:18] Voice 15: don't use social media don't have accounts on social media and there are a

[5:14:23] Voice 15: lot of people who don't use the website in fact I think there are a lot of

[5:14:27] Voice 15: people who use email as now rather than these so if what you said is true is

[5:14:36] Voice 15: also true of the two options that you actually have in the bylaw yeah

[5:14:40] Voice 15: Dr Marlon yeah

[5:14:42] Voice 27: I mean this is a debate you can have at your LTC table with the

[5:14:46] Voice 27: you know when it comes to you but i would just probably also add that a subscription is not

[5:14:52] Voice 27: open right people would have to go and find it join it to become part of it whereas whereas

[5:14:59] Voice 27: people can stumble across things or find things on a web page easier anyway it's it may work as

[5:15:06] Voice 27: like i said it might be okay there are some local governments that do a subscription service so if

[5:15:12] Voice 27: If you as a trust committee feels that that is the best option for your island, I wouldn't stand in the way.

[5:15:18] Voice 27: It's up to you to make that decision.

[5:15:21] Voice 15: I

[5:15:22] Trustee Patrick: don't agree with that approach because I think, Trustee Boland, I think this is a debate for Saturna.

[5:15:27] Trustee Patrick: And in the wild west of Saturna that was described to us earlier, we might listen in.

[5:15:33] Trustee Patrick: Okay, Trustee Getty.

[5:15:36] Voice 16: We've got a very active and busy little newspaper that publishes every week.

[5:15:41] Voice 16: So that's our reliable source.

[5:15:42] Voice 16: But I think if somebody didn't want to put money into an ad in the paper, they'd be putting up posters on the ferry and we've got, you know, set aside space where we can make community announcements up on the ferry and stuff.

[5:15:57] Voice 16: But I think that there's another report that we've got somewhere in the agenda saying that the numbers of people that are subscribed to our website and our social media pages are quite low.

[5:16:09] Voice 16: um and i think that unless the local trust committee figures out what works best for

[5:16:15] Voice 16: their community and puts that into their little bylaw it's not necessarily the where the islands

[5:16:21] Voice 16: trust website is going to be the best fit so i i don't know what the numbers are on bowen but

[5:16:26] Voice 16: my guess is that it's pretty low and um and there are some real avid facebook users so

[5:16:33] Voice 16: that might be even lower on other islands so i think we need to not necessarily think that we

[5:16:41] Voice 16: can rely on that as adequate notice for some of these things and each island has to figure out

[5:16:47] Voice 16: where do people stop and get their where's the bulletin board and how do they set it up

[5:16:54] Trustee Patrick: thank you trustee

[5:16:55] Voice 12: evans um i'm going to agree with some of the things that i've heard around

[5:17:00] Voice 12: here this is one of my concerns um i know for myself that if i wasn't a trustee and subscribing

[5:17:06] Voice 12: and getting the emails i am not checking the islands trust website every day to look for

[5:17:11] Voice 12: meeting notices for something that i might be interested in i can guarantee you i'm not doing

[5:17:15] Voice 12: that top it off with half the time i can't find where those meeting notices are and i work in the

[5:17:21] Voice 12: website regularly um the other thing that i'm going to say on south pender as well and a lot

[5:17:28] Voice 12: of our islands come the winter months sometimes we get up to five days with power outages this

[5:17:33] Voice 12: then no longer becomes reliable because there is no way to access it so i would want to have

[5:17:40] Voice 12: a conversation with south panda to say that the physical notice that we put up at our place of

[5:17:47] Voice 12: meeting having the online panda post that a lot of readers go to having the subscriber email list so

[5:17:54] Voice 12: it's sent out with a notification then word of mouth spreads it as well are the most reliable

[5:18:00] Voice 12: ways that i can see for our island each island i think will have its own unique needs and as

[5:18:08] Voice 12: long as these two are not required then we can adjust this as we need for our island or not

[5:18:18] Voice 12: not adopt it.

[5:18:20] Voice 27: Dr. Marlowe?

[5:18:22] Voice 27: Yeah, thank you.

[5:18:23] Voice 27: Just to reiterate, I guess.

[5:18:26] Voice 27: Yeah, so that's just a recommendation for the model.

[5:18:30] Voice 27: If council adopts it, when it goes to local trust committee,

[5:18:33] Voice 27: let's just make it clear in the cover letter,

[5:18:36] Voice 27: the cover report to the local trust committee,

[5:18:40] Voice 27: that they need to consider reliability, suitability, and accessibility.

[5:18:44] Voice 27: And if these two don't work, they can pick other ways.

[5:18:47] Voice 27: And as you said, if you're happy with the status quo, you can stay with the status quo and just use the default system.

[5:18:53] Voice 27: It's up to you.

[5:18:54] Voice 27: There is a cost savings to this because the default has some very strict two publication rules, which you don't necessarily have to have here.

[5:19:09] Voice 21: Oh,

[5:19:13] Trustee Patrick: by the way, are you doing cyber chat?

[5:19:19] Voice 22: All

[5:19:19] Trustee Patrick: right. Thank you. All right. I think we have a couple more questions here. We're not

[5:19:26] Trustee Patrick: debating what's happening on the local side.

[5:19:29] Voice 14: Yes. State your point. Do you have to rule on

[5:19:32] Voice 14: that as per our conversation earlier today? Is that not, it's a curiosity based on our

[5:19:36] Voice 14: conversation. Yes,

[5:19:37] Trustee Patrick: but I think this case, I think, I think we understood that side chatter has

[5:19:44] Trustee Patrick: stopped okay uh trustee

[5:19:49] Voice 24: yates i think director mother just answered my question about when it

[5:19:54] Voice 24: comes to us then we can make that decision and if we vote for this as a model we're still okay

[5:20:01] Voice 26: thank you thank

[5:20:01] Voice 24: you trustee luckham yeah

[5:20:06] Voice 32: i just say that i'm completely in favor of this

[5:20:09] Voice 32: it's been an issue for trustees for a very long time and so we'll be supporting it but i have a

[5:20:15] Voice 32: a little technical question in that in the electronic media is the expectation

[5:20:22] Voice 32: that the notice would be published as an image or as a hyperlink?

[5:20:28] Voice 32: Because when you're browsing a document,

[5:20:31] Voice 32: you might look at an image of a permit as opposed to clicking on a hyperlink.

[5:20:37] Voice 32: And so does that represent fair notification if it was only a hyperlink?

[5:20:44] Voice 32: and it sounds well you see your head nodding that's not clear yeah

[5:20:51] Voice 27: i know i haven't uh taken

[5:20:52] Voice 27: it that far so we could talk you know you can talk at the local trust committee about that and

[5:20:57] Voice 27: i think uh i'd have that discussion with the planners at the ltc yeah i think that's a good

[5:21:03] Voice 27: place right just

[5:21:05] Trustee Patrick: trustee fast i'm in favor of this motion has the motion to me trustee bernardo

[5:21:12] Trustee Patrick: was going to make the motion so i'll turn to trustee bernardo please proceed i

[5:21:18] Voice 11: move i move

[5:21:19] Voice 11: move the trust council adopt draft policy 4.1.16 model public notice bylaw and forward it to the

[5:21:26] Voice 11: local trust committees for their consideration in the adoption of a public notice bylaw

[5:21:31] Voice 11: is

[5:21:32] Trustee Patrick: there a second trustee campbell any discussion we're discussed out okay all those in favor

[5:21:40] Trustee Patrick: right lower your hands any opposed that carries trustees thank you how are we doing on time oh

[5:21:59] Trustee Patrick: Oh, we're getting awfully close here.

[5:22:01] Trustee Patrick: No, we started at less than 10 minutes.

[5:22:06] Trustee Patrick: So should we start introduce the next item or move into our, okay, no, introduce the next item.

[5:22:14] Trustee Patrick: So go ahead over to you, Director Marler.

[5:22:15] Trustee Patrick: We're doing 16.2.3, which is Amendment to the Trust Council Meeting Procedure By-law 101 regarding petitions and delegations.

[5:22:22] Voice 27: Yeah, thank you.

[5:22:23] Voice 27: This is actually from the Executive Committee.

[5:22:25] Voice 27: And the request to staff was to bring some edits to the meeting procedure bylaw to deal with the disposition of petitions, but also to allow for petitions or comments that have to do with items that are on the agenda to be provided later.

[5:22:49] Voice 27: In other words, that the agenda is released, and then sometime before the meeting, somebody who wanted to comment on an item on the agenda would have that ability.

[5:22:59] Voice 27: So these amendments have been made in the draft bylaw.

[5:23:04] Voice 27: The report provides you with the changes.

[5:23:10] Voice 27: mainly sections 517 and 518 have been added, and the entire section to deal with delegations has been rewritten to accommodate those changes.

[5:23:20] Voice 27: I have indicated below bylaw 199 is the bylaw number, it's on page 273, and there you can read the new sections, section 5.8, so you just want to go to that page here.

[5:23:36] Voice 27: this is a section that deals with the delegations

[5:23:39] Voice 27: of when they have to provide it, what they have to provide

[5:23:42] Voice 27: and 5.8a at the end there you'll see

[5:23:46] Voice 27: that the specific action being requested

[5:23:50] Voice 27: needs to also be included

[5:23:53] Voice 27: and then under C

[5:23:58] Voice 27: this is a section where if it's related to an item that's on the agenda

[5:24:02] Voice 27: agenda, then we can receive it as late as 4 p.m. the business day before. So if Trust Council

[5:24:09] Voice 27: starts on a Tuesday, we would need to receive it by 4 p.m. on Monday, and then that would go to

[5:24:15] Voice 27: the executive committee the next morning for addition to the agenda, as other items normally

[5:24:21] Voice 27: are. And under D, if it's a presentation that's not related to a matter on the agenda, it would

[5:24:29] Voice 27: need to be received three weeks prior in other words the usual time frame so really it's the

[5:24:35] Voice 27: same process just the addition of allowing people to provide a late item to you after the agenda

[5:24:43] Voice 27: has been released and before 4 p.m the day before the meeting the time under f is essentially the

[5:24:50] Voice 27: same 10 minutes per delegation with the ability for the council to extend it as necessary

[5:24:59] Voice 27: if they want to do that.

[5:25:01] Voice 27: G is a section that just makes sure

[5:25:05] Voice 27: that we're not allowing defamatory materials

[5:25:08] Voice 27: onto the agenda.

[5:25:10] Voice 27: So this is things that are defamatory,

[5:25:13] Voice 27: libelous, or slanderous,

[5:25:16] Voice 27: and it includes statements that are damaging or false.

[5:25:22] Voice 27: And under 5.9 on the next page,

[5:25:26] Voice 27: A allows the person who's been refused to address the meeting of approved by a

[5:25:35] Voice 27: two-third vote of a trust counsel so they could ask counsel to override the

[5:25:42] Voice 27: decision by executive or the staff person regarding the content and B is

[5:25:50] Voice 27: essentially allowing counsel to extend the time limit for individual

[5:25:54] Voice 27: virtual delegations um and then under b is a new section on disposition of petitions and

[5:26:02] Voice 27: delegations so this says before the end of the meeting under 517 trust council may consider

[5:26:10] Voice 27: so it doesn't have to but it may consider dispositions of petitions and delegations

[5:26:15] Voice 27: any disposition request uh should allow time for the staff to provide written advice to trust

[5:26:22] Voice 27: council and time for trust council to consider that advice so that's to try and get at the

[5:26:28] Voice 27: concern that was raised that council is acting on a petition request without seeking advice from

[5:26:35] Voice 27: staff and then often either not being able to provide that actually do what you're fastest to

[5:26:41] Voice 27: do or staff have had to come back and kind of back travel with you the 5.18 is if there is

[5:26:49] Voice 27: something where time is limited like you can't wait to the next council meeting for example

[5:26:55] Voice 27: then trust council can delegate this position to one of any of the petitions or delegations to

[5:27:01] Voice 27: either the executive committee or the trust council chair so that should address the issue

[5:27:06] Voice 27: where uh you want to do something can't wait uh so how do we handle it so that is the intent here

[5:27:13] Voice 27: i realize this is the first time council has seen this as a bylaw so obviously if you're not

[5:27:18] Voice 27: comfortable adapting now you don't have to you can either ask me to bring it back ask me for

[5:27:25] Voice 27: amendments now or you can give it just one reading and think about it or if you're comfortable you

[5:27:32] Voice 27: can give it three readings so it's up to you and again this comes from the executive committee so

[5:27:37] Voice 27: might ask the executive they got any comments back to the chair thank you all

[5:27:42] Trustee Patrick: right thank you

[5:27:42] Trustee Patrick: i don't have any fun from the executive committee wishes to speak about it otherwise we have trustee

[5:27:47] Trustee Patrick: Yates on proceed proceed so

[5:27:51] Voice 24: this is kind of a hypothetical question what if there is a delegation

[5:27:56] Voice 24: at trust council that is that perhaps an answer is time sensitive perhaps they're bringing up an

[5:28:04] Voice 24: issue that something's going to happen and then in the next two months and what could you respond to

[5:28:10] Voice 24: this what happens if we don't have time at that council meeting to respond appropriately because

[5:28:19] Voice 24: we don't want to respond in haste so then what what happens to that does it come back to the

[5:28:28] Voice 24: trustees how does it come back to us if it requires a time sensitive reply yeah

[5:28:36] Voice 27: so without knowing the

[5:28:36] Voice 27: content so hypothetically at the end of the meeting and the dispositions you would identify

[5:28:42] Voice 27: that item and you could by resolution of council ask the chair to draft a response or you know

[5:28:50] Voice 27: let the chair deal with that or the executive committee because the executive meets more

[5:28:54] Voice 27: frequently and i can't wait for you to come back if you've got ideas about what you would like to

[5:29:00] Voice 27: see in that you can provide that to the chair at that time and then that will give the chair time

[5:29:05] Voice 27: time to work with staff on a response

[5:29:09] Trustee Patrick: trustee peterson thank

[5:29:14] Voice 10: you chair i'm glad to see this

[5:29:15] Voice 10: finally coming um for decision before trust council in a couple years but uh as the uh

[5:29:24] Voice 10: squeaky wheel who was uh really suggesting that we get some policy going on on this i appreciate

[5:29:30] Voice 10: it i think it's appropriate and i'm happy to make the motion uh when the time has come

[5:29:39] Trustee Patrick: trustee Evans we're gonna take one more question then we're going to pause this

[5:29:43] Trustee Patrick: discussion until tomorrow so one more question then we'll pause go ahead

[5:29:48] Trustee Patrick: trustee Evans thanks

[5:29:49] Voice 12: so I have a couple of questions one of them is with regards

[5:29:55] Voice 12: to the appeal process that was something that was supposed to be clear in here

[5:30:00] Voice 12: entirely sure where the appeal process is i think i know that it's uh 5.9a but it doesn't actually

[5:30:06] Voice 12: call out an appeal process so that might be something that would be useful for clarity

[5:30:12] Voice 12: moving forward um 517 i noticed that you changed the wording as you read it out any disposition

[5:30:21] Voice 12: request currently says will allow time for staff so it's either make it stronger or make it softer

[5:30:28] Voice 12: so either it's must or should um but will is sort of right in the middle so i think we should make

[5:30:34] Voice 12: it one or the other um a few grammar points there's uh closing quotes at the end of 518

[5:30:42] Voice 12: um 58f there is a pr in there i think that's meant to be or and my other question is in 6.1

[5:30:54] Voice 12: which was not a change that was brought out or requested but it says if the chair wishes to

[5:31:01] Voice 12: speak in a meeting this chair need only address the meeting is there some way that we can look at

[5:31:06] Voice 12: having the chair add their name to the speakers list if they wish to speak a personal opinion

[5:31:12] Voice 12: versus or responding to something just to help moderate how the chair uses time in a meeting

[5:31:22] Voice 12: because there have been some cases where the chair has had the floor for the great majority of the time.

[5:31:30] Voice 27: Yeah, so thank you for the title.

[5:31:33] Voice 27: So as I can clean up, I appreciate that.

[5:31:39] Voice 27: The process for the request, we would do that internally.

[5:31:42] Voice 27: So if you agree that you would like to have the ability for the petitioner to come to council

[5:31:48] Voice 27: in that we'll develop something for the website

[5:31:51] Voice 27: that lets the public know how they can do that,

[5:31:54] Voice 27: how they have to approach them.

[5:31:56] Voice 27: So we don't really need to spell it out here, I don't think.

[5:31:59] Voice 27: And then 6.1 is actually not part of the bylaw.

[5:32:02] Voice 27: That's just that section on page 277.

[5:32:06] Voice 27: It's just to show you how the edits fit into the existing bylaw.

[5:32:11] Voice 27: So the edits are shown as highlights in there.

[5:32:18] Voice 27: So, you'll see, for example, on page 276, all of 5.8 through to 5.10 changes, and then

[5:32:31] Voice 27: on page 277, where disposition of petitions and delegations has been inserted.

[5:32:38] Voice 27: If you want changes to 6.1, I think that would be a separate bylaw.

[5:32:43] Voice 27: Thank you.

[5:32:45] Trustee Patrick: All right.

[5:32:45] Trustee Patrick: With that, I'm going to pause this discussion.

[5:32:47] Trustee Patrick: we'll pick it up tomorrow i'm going to move to the front to introduce our speaker so navigate

[5:32:53] Trustee Patrick: the tables all right trustees it's been a long day have it a good day as you know our mandate

[5:33:14] Trustee Patrick: we preserve and protect the trust area and its unique amenities and the environment for the

[5:33:21] Trustee Patrick: benefit of the residents for the general residents of the province but we do it in cooperation

[5:33:28] Trustee Patrick: cooperation and we do it in cooperation with a number of entities and i think here in the

[5:33:33] Trustee Patrick: southern gulf islands and it's a by some of the audience we have elizabeth may's constituent

[5:33:40] Trustee Patrick: coordinator here asia emerson we have an electoral area director from southern gulf islands paul

[5:33:46] Trustee Patrick: brent gary holman was here earlier and he's not here now and we work together and we work together

[5:33:53] Trustee Patrick: together as a team with our MLA and I'm so honored to be able to introduce our MLA not only is he a

[5:34:02] Trustee Patrick: fellow Islander he's from Pender but that's okay he's a boater he's on the water and I'm very

[5:34:12] Trustee Patrick: honored to be able to introduce Emily Botterall thank you great

[5:34:23] Voice 13: thanks very much it's great to

[5:34:26] Voice 13: be here um as laura mentioned i'm uh i'm here to sing for my supper

[5:34:31] Voice 26: my

[5:34:33] Voice 13: name is rob botterill my

[5:34:34] Voice 13: new challenge name is not so schluck and i was honored with that name by

[5:34:40] Voice 13: uh the new challenge nation hoy at first nations and it means uh always watching um i want to thank

[5:34:48] Voice 13: Thank you for the opportunity as Saanich North Neon's MLA and as a Proud Pender resident to make this presentation today.

[5:34:59] Voice 13: And I also want to reflect and thank all of you for the work that you do and to protect and preserve the trust area.

[5:35:12] Voice 13: You know, we're all doing our part to preserve and protect this special area, and it's really important actually to thank your friends, your family, your partners who are supporting you and doing this great work.

[5:35:31] Voice 13: And I know for me, I wouldn't be able to fulfill my responsibilities in MLA without a whole support network, and I'm sure it's the same for you.

[5:35:43] Voice 13: It's been a busy week for me. Earlier this week, we had preparation for meetings with the Deputy Premier next week on our accord and how that's going.

[5:35:58] Voice 13: I was meeting to formulate plans to negotiate the protection of Ferry Creek.

[5:36:06] Voice 13: Next week, we'll be having the first meeting of an advisory group to me on health care across the riding.

[5:36:17] Voice 13: And as you will know, under the accord, we are looking to work with the government to really expand access to primary care and community health centers across the province.

[5:36:35] Voice 13: And one of my real priorities is to make sure that there's a strong voice for rural health care and health care in the islands, in the trust area.

[5:36:46] Voice 13: And we're doing the same work on housing, affordable, really affordable housing is a huge challenge on many islands.

[5:36:57] Voice 13: And on July 23rd, Minister Kaelin, Housing and Municipal Affairs will be here for the day on Salt Spring, which will give the Salt Spring Islanders and those working on the issue an opportunity to really see what we can do.

[5:37:20] Voice 13: And I'm sure we'll take some time during that day to point out that lack of affordable housing, lack of housing for the homeless, people living on boats and moldy trailers is a huge issue in many parts of the trust area.

[5:37:43] Voice 13: I'm starting a special committee set of hearings all over the province on democratic and electoral reform, including having another look at proportional representation.

[5:37:59] Voice 13: And today at lunch, I met with the head of the Saanich Peninsula Foundation, Saanich Peninsula Hospital Foundation, because that's a huge issue is access to hospitals and emergency care, both in this part of the trust area, but throughout.

[5:38:19] Voice 13: and meeting constituents and last but not least really keeping an eye on the work that we're doing

[5:38:25] Voice 13: with the government on updating clean bc because with accelerating climate change that is a huge

[5:38:32] Voice 13: issue but the highlight the highlight of the past week was attending the gulf island senior

[5:38:38] Voice 13: secondary school graduation where i saw 140 wonderful amazing uh salt spring islanders and

[5:38:48] Voice 13: and, of course, Pender Islanders and Saturn Islanders graduating.

[5:38:53] Voice 13: And, you know, they're going to be the next artists, home builders, scientists, musicians.

[5:39:01] Voice 13: There's even one person, one graduate who admitted that they were going to do poli-sci

[5:39:07] Voice 13: and they might go into politics.

[5:39:09] Voice 13: And I thought, whoa, that's a high percentage given the current political world we see south of the border.

[5:39:15] Voice 13: But the highlight of all highlights was each student had to describe what their best memory was in high school.

[5:39:26] Voice 13: And one person had the courage to actually be very honest and direct and said, my best memory, my best achievement was not getting caught using chat GBT.

[5:39:39] Voice 13: And so, you know, AI is here.

[5:39:42] Voice 13: Here, you know, what that reminded me was that and that graduation and seeing those students reminded me that the, you know, the the islands trust area is greater than the sum of its interconnected parts.

[5:40:01] Voice 13: You know, forests, fisheries, wildlife, the waters, the lands and amazing people.

[5:40:08] Voice 13: it's the it's it's that connection all of it together everything is connected

[5:40:14] Voice 13: and in your challenge which is I've seen area I'm familiar with his shook myself

[5:40:22] Voice 13: walk is the word that is used to describe that everything is connected

[5:40:25] Voice 13: and I really truly believe that graduates from school systems in the

[5:40:30] Voice 13: trust area have a huge advantage over others in terms of their connection to

[5:40:36] Voice 13: all parts of the world. We're also so lucky that 31 nations have stewarded this area for millennia

[5:40:46] Voice 13: before most of us arrived, or all of us arrived, but settlers arrived. And, you know, they never

[5:40:53] Voice 13: took more than they needed. They always put back what they took out, and they had a small footprint.

[5:40:59] Voice 13: And there's a lot of teachings that we're fortunate in, and your hard work with nations throughout the trust area demonstrates that.

[5:41:13] Voice 13: There's a lot that we can do together and a lot to learn.

[5:41:18] Voice 13: When settlers arrived, of course, a long time ago now, but, you know, lots changed.

[5:41:26] Voice 13: changed. There's much less old growth. There's less fish. Ecosystems are under threat. And you

[5:41:35] Voice 13: know, even in the 70s, when I was first sailing and visiting the Gulf Islands, there was a lot

[5:41:43] Voice 13: more of the environment habitat than there is today. In fact, there is a lot more of

[5:41:53] Voice 13: It wasn't just loss.

[5:41:55] Voice 13: We haven't had just loss of fish and loss of trees and stuff like that, tree cover.

[5:41:59] Voice 13: We've had a lot more of some things.

[5:42:01] Voice 13: Fallow deer on Main Island growing.

[5:42:05] Voice 13: And, you know, I was at Country Grocer last weekend talking to constituents here,

[5:42:10] Voice 13: and I was reminded that shiny geraniums and Spanish broom, invasive species, are on the rise.

[5:42:19] Voice 13: All of this has happened in the blink of an eye.

[5:42:22] Voice 13: And while it may be a pipe dream to return to the past before we arrive, there is no doubt we can all, and we all do, have a role to play in preserving and protecting what makes this Island Trust area so special.

[5:42:38] Voice 13: And I don't think there's anybody in the room who doesn't agree that that is a really critical piece of work that we're all doing and that we're all doing together.

[5:42:52] Voice 13: In 1986, when I was a trustee for Bowen Island, the special amenities of the trust area

[5:43:01] Voice 13: were described in the following way. Times change and terminology changes,

[5:43:09] Voice 13: but I think it's instructive as we look to the future of the trust together

[5:43:15] Voice 13: other to remind ourselves of how it was described then and the special amenities

[5:43:24] Voice 13: and environment of the trust area derived from the combination of a mild

[5:43:29] Voice 13: climate 500 islands in the extensive coastline and sheltered waters diverse

[5:43:34] Voice 13: and unusual natural features vegetation and wildlife almost continuous tree

[5:43:41] Voice 13: tree cover, and large undeveloped areas, numerous areas of heritage or archaeological significance,

[5:43:48] Voice 13: abundant and varied recreational opportunities accessible to adjacent major urban centers,

[5:43:55] Voice 13: solitude, scenic beauty, and a clean environment, compact marine-oriented settlements,

[5:44:01] Voice 13: tranquil rural areas, a range of lifestyles, a unique water supply situation, i.e. small watersheds,

[5:44:09] Voice 13: shallow soils, and heavy reliance on groundwater sources, the self-sufficiency yet interdependence

[5:44:17] Voice 13: that island living entails.

[5:44:20] Voice 13: So preserving and protecting the trust area and its unique amenities is the way that we

[5:44:28] Voice 13: all give back for the privilege of living, working, and playing on these lands and waters

[5:44:34] Voice 13: that 31 First Nations have stewarded for millennia.

[5:44:42] Voice 13: And it is more challenging than 1986.

[5:44:45] Voice 13: Holy smokes.

[5:44:47] Voice 13: We've got huge issues around housing.

[5:44:50] Voice 13: I don't need to tell you, but just for the record,

[5:44:53] Voice 13: drought and water shortages, accelerating climate change,

[5:44:58] Voice 13: Trump, homelessness, cost of living, health crisis,

[5:45:03] Voice 13: real true work on reconciliation with first nations toxic drugs and a crisis of democracy

[5:45:12] Voice 13: where our first past the post system is creating systemically creating and supporting

[5:45:20] Voice 13: division rather than consensus building and i i believe i'm sure we all believe the islands trust

[5:45:29] Voice 13: Trust has a pivotal role and a sacred responsibility to everyone who came before

[5:45:35] Voice 13: and everyone in the future, those Gulf Island senior secondary students

[5:45:40] Voice 13: and the students on all of your islands, to preserve and protect.

[5:45:45] Voice 13: And in the balance of this presentation, as your MLA for this part of the Trust area

[5:45:54] Voice 13: and as a resident of Pender, I'd like to offer some suggestions on the past forward based on

[5:46:03] Voice 13: my lived experience. And it's worth noting, and we all describe this in our own way,

[5:46:12] Voice 13: that the Islands Trust is not alone in this important work. Back in 1986, which may seem

[5:46:21] Voice 13: a long time ago but in terms of the history of of the the geological history of this island these

[5:46:28] Voice 13: islands and the the trees and wildlife and water and lands it's it's a blink uh it was described

[5:46:36] Voice 13: this way the trust has been given direct authority with respect to the regulation of land use and

[5:46:42] Voice 13: development however a key feature of the design of the trust was that it should work in concert

[5:46:47] Voice 13: with other provincial and local government agencies to achieve its mandate,

[5:46:52] Voice 13: just as your chair mentioned at the outset.

[5:46:55] Voice 13: By cooperation, it was intended that the powers of those agencies be used to assist in achieving the trust's purpose.

[5:47:03] Voice 13: In turn, the trust would be available to assist in the implementation of provincial policy in the trust area.

[5:47:11] Voice 13: I'll say it again.

[5:47:12] Voice 13: I really appreciate the opportunity to provide you with some suggestions.

[5:47:18] Voice 13: I do so with the utmost respect, and I do so in the hope that you'll consider my suggestions

[5:47:28] Voice 13: and reconsider them, if many of these you will have already heard and maybe deliberated

[5:47:34] Voice 13: on, and in the knowledge that it's the island's trust that is the decision.

[5:47:41] Voice 13: You're the decision makers, and I respect that.

[5:47:43] Voice 13: I'm not here to, in any way, tell you what to do.

[5:47:49] Voice 13: I just really appreciate the opportunity to offer some suggestions based on my lived experience.

[5:47:56] Voice 13: And my lived experience, very briefly, is that I grew up in Victoria.

[5:48:01] Voice 13: I was an Islands trustee on Bowen in the 80s before it became a municipality.

[5:48:06] Voice 13: That's where Judy Getty and I got to know each other.

[5:48:09] Voice 13: um i drafted uh with the team bc's freedom of information legislation over the course of my

[5:48:16] Voice 13: career i've drafted hundreds of pages of legislation for first nations i've worked with

[5:48:22] Voice 13: bill beholzer bullhauser i've worked with don lidstone i've i've worked with lots of

[5:48:29] Voice 13: the legal advisors that that you'll have bumped into in your work um i've spent 25 years dealing

[5:48:38] Voice 13: dealing with the federal and provincial government on really tough issues, many of them the same

[5:48:44] Voice 13: issues and items that you're tackling, financial controller for the TD Bank, I'm now an MLA,

[5:48:55] Voice 13: and I'm sort of on the environmental front.

[5:48:59] Voice 13: I spent six years fighting to stop Site C, and through treaty work with nations, I've basically dealt with housing, health care, social services, land management, elections, and so on.

[5:49:16] Voice 13: So I'm not trying to toot my own horn. I just when when you say, well, what what what is where is Rob coming from?

[5:49:25] Voice 13: What when when he gives you some suggestions or provides you with some suggestions, you know, based on his lived experience, what is it?

[5:49:35] Voice 13: And so I have 10 suggestions, and I'll just run through them, and I'm certainly happy once we finish to answer any questions.

[5:49:48] Voice 13: We have an author on Pender Island who's an amazing author, written a lot of books, Bill Deverell, and one of his most famous books is Kill All the Lawyers.

[5:50:04] Voice 13: that would be my first bit of advice kill all the lawyers i'm a lawyer i'm a retired lawyer you know

[5:50:11] Voice 13: um you the it's important work to look at legal opinions i don't don't deny that uh but but you

[5:50:21] Voice 13: know the legal opinions there's been lots of legal opinions on section three will not change the fact

[5:50:27] Voice 13: from my perspective that uh it's preserve and protect the trust area that is the main objective

[5:50:36] Voice 13: that's that's not the only consideration but that's the paramount consideration when when i

[5:50:42] Voice 13: was looking at bill i'm like i know bill bill's a great lawyer when i was looking at bill's uh

[5:50:47] Voice 13: legal opinion that was released november 13th 2024 i think is the date he's got it right yeah

[5:50:54] Voice 13: Yeah, local trust committees are required to plan for increases in housing supply, subject to preserve and protect, getting that balance.

[5:51:06] Voice 13: I don't think anybody who's talking about preserving and protecting the trust area is not also supporting the need to address the housing crisis.

[5:51:19] Voice 13: Yes, DRIPA does not require free prior informed consent, it doesn't require it, but there's

[5:51:29] Voice 13: definitely an opportunity under DRIPA to work towards Section 7 agreements, and ultimately

[5:51:39] Voice 13: by figuring out how nations and residents of the trust area can engage in a form of

[5:51:47] Voice 13: co-management that everybody can support. That's the path forward. And so, you know,

[5:51:55] Voice 13: I completely agree with Bill's legal opinion. The bottom line is that consensus

[5:52:03] Voice 13: is much harder to achieve when everybody's lawyered up. I mean, I've spent 25 years being a

[5:52:13] Voice 13: lawyer uh lawyered up lawyering up first nations and local governments and uh you know uh what

[5:52:21] Voice 13: happens is uh you get a win and then the courts say well you should you know we're no you better

[5:52:27] Voice 13: go back and figure this out so so it it very often doesn't provide the clarity that one would hope

[5:52:35] Voice 13: So my second suggestion is, and I was trying to figure out how to describe this, 31 equals 31.

[5:52:47] Voice 13: This is a demonstration of my high level of mathematical prowess.

[5:52:53] Voice 13: And what I mean there is that, you know, each First Nation is a sovereign government with its own interests, title rights, interests.

[5:53:06] Voice 13: and you know for illustrative purposes and i've said this uh you know publicly and i'll

[5:53:12] Voice 13: make the point here um when you introduce first reading of of the uh new policy statement uh you

[5:53:23] Voice 13: can expect based on my lengthy experience with first nations both in this part of the island

[5:53:30] Voice 13: and in other parts of the province,

[5:53:34] Voice 13: that it's suddenly going to go to the top of the pile of referrals.

[5:53:39] Voice 13: And First Nations are going to suddenly become a whole lot more interested.

[5:53:44] Voice 13: And some of them are going to say, well, you know,

[5:53:47] Voice 13: I need a couple hundred grand of capacity money to engage in consultation.

[5:53:52] Voice 13: Some will lawyer up.

[5:53:54] Voice 13: Some may not have much to say, but you can't predict.

[5:53:58] Voice 13: And, you know, there's going to be some nations that you have strong relationships with who are pretty much right on board, but there's going to be others that it will take more time than you can imagine to get to the point where there's either agreement or a willingness to, you know, go with the flow, so to speak, or allow things to proceed.

[5:54:26] Voice 13: And my most recent experience with this in the provincial government, and I could talk about this for two hours, is Bill 14 and 15.

[5:54:36] Voice 13: Now, what happened in Bill 14 and 15 is 200 out of 204 nations said, hold on, we have a right to be consulted on the legislation.

[5:54:52] Voice 13: Not just how it's implemented, not just when you accelerate permits for major projects, not just when cabinet approves a renewable energy project that has major implications for a particular nation.

[5:55:12] Voice 13: legislation rather to actually consult about the framework the policy the legislation and and uh

[5:55:21] Voice 13: what the nation said very clearly was you know what you could spend three or four months with

[5:55:29] Voice 13: us now and do that work and it might take longer it might take a lot longer or you can do it later

[5:55:37] Voice 13: in the courts and and so my experience is there's no amount of you know use as much possible time

[5:55:47] Voice 13: as you can uh with nations um you know and a related point is they're they're really uh you

[5:55:56] Voice 13: you may you know the honest trust trustees you may want to get on with stuff but but you know

[5:56:03] Voice 13: So my experience in getting to yes on extremely complex items and even not so complex items

[5:56:13] Voice 13: where there's strong differences of opinion is treat everybody, as I'm sure you will,

[5:56:21] Voice 13: equitably, you know, build that consent and build that consensus when and obviously I'm

[5:56:31] Voice 13: I'm using the policy statement as one illustration, but nobody has actually seen the final version

[5:56:39] Voice 13: of the policy statement, and the policy statement is a fairly major directional decision.

[5:56:51] Voice 13: So bottom line for me is that the world won't end if you take a lot more time than you can

[5:56:59] Voice 13: can imagine, both with First Nations and residents of the trust in terms of consulting on the new

[5:57:07] Voice 13: policy statement. The last thing we want, and I say we because I think there's probably nobody

[5:57:15] Voice 13: in this room who would disagree, the last thing we want is to have to deal with challenges to the

[5:57:24] Voice 13: the policy statement or have have it occupy a whole lot of time uh for the next four or five

[5:57:32] Voice 13: years as parts of some communities take issue with it so my suggestion is think you're going

[5:57:41] Voice 13: to do what you want to do and i totally respect that and i will support it but but just think

[5:57:47] Voice 13: about taking more time than you can imagine. My fourth point is continue to show Minister

[5:58:01] Voice 13: Ravi Kailan the high degree of respect you're showing him. He is one of the strongest,

[5:58:10] Voice 13: most articulate, experienced ministers in this government.

[5:58:17] Voice 13: And we're actually lucky to have him as Minister of Housing and Municipal Affairs,

[5:58:23] Voice 13: given those are two critical parts or critical items that the trust is dealing with.

[5:58:33] Voice 13: and and uh you know he's written written uh written the trust letter written the chair

[5:58:40] Voice 13: letter in in april and uh you know i'm just going to read a couple of points there

[5:58:49] Voice 13: you know he's he's highlighting the fact that um they have they have to make we will have to

[5:58:58] Voice 13: to make difficult choices about the order in which we commit to new initiatives, and that he's not in

[5:59:04] Voice 13: a position to consider a review prior to the next general local elections. And all I can say is that

[5:59:12] Voice 13: I'm seeing that up close and personal in my work in the legislature. This government is completely

[5:59:22] Voice 13: completely focused on the trade war with trump and with dealing with a massive deficit and trying

[5:59:32] Voice 13: to deal deliver all the services so um i mean that's not surprising uh i won't read you've

[5:59:42] Voice 13: all read this letter i won't read the the letter in any detail other than to say um that um

[5:59:50] Voice 13: I think I think I think finding a way to work with what the minister has has.

[6:00:00] Voice 13: uh set out here is really important i i do want to say one thing because it's of course um i i uh

[6:00:07] Voice 13: i'm not immune to reading the driftwood and a variety of other papers uh um i will say that um

[6:00:16] Voice 13: uh yeah i i met with minister caitlin and talked about the trust before that i talked to a couple

[6:00:25] Voice 13: of trustees at this table, and I gathered some information. I talked to ministers given my role

[6:00:38] Voice 13: in the Accord all the time, but I can tell you the ministers don't take direction from me. I just

[6:00:46] Voice 13: offer observations, and I'm really just sharing some of those observations, well, all the

[6:00:52] Voice 13: the observations with you, and I didn't share all of these with the minister, but I'm a big

[6:01:00] Voice 13: supporter of the trust and trying to make sure that we can all succeed in achieving what we

[6:01:06] Voice 13: need to achieve. There's the provincial interest, as if dealing with all of the issues in the trust

[6:01:15] Voice 13: as the trustees and on behalf of your constituents isn't enough there's the

[6:01:23] Voice 13: provincial interest to consider to this this this may you may disagree with us

[6:01:32] Voice 13: but I'm gonna say it you have the tools you have the tools and and you know some

[6:01:40] Voice 13: Maybe some of you, certainly some folks in my community on Pender, say, this doesn't work.

[6:01:48] Voice 13: We need municipal status.

[6:01:50] Voice 13: If we could get municipal status, we could get this done.

[6:01:54] Voice 13: And, you know, my only caution there is be careful what you wish for.

[6:02:03] Voice 13: on Bowen, where I lived in the early 80s as a trustee. Municipal status wasn't the magic bullet

[6:02:14] Voice 13: that some hoped it would be. A house, which seems like an extraordinary amount of money,

[6:02:21] Voice 13: assessed at 1.3 million on Bowen. The taxes in 1999, before

[6:02:32] Voice 13: foreign corporation were $2,000 a year. The taxes this year are, I'm rounding, but $6,000 a year.

[6:02:40] Voice 13: The water fees, $150. Now, $800, almost $900. And 38, as I understand it, 38 staff.

[6:02:53] Voice 13: half. It's a big operation. And yeah, this is a sample size of one. But I think just my only point

[6:03:04] Voice 13: is be careful when you consider that as an option on any of the islands. My next point is population

[6:03:16] Voice 13: Population does matter, and when we look at the population growth of 62 percent increase since 1991, so, I mean, there's census stats.

[6:03:27] Voice 13: They may not be exactly right, but around 31,000 across the trust area, it's indicative anyway, means that there's been a lot of development.

[6:03:37] Voice 13: There's been, certainly in parts of the trust area, considerable development.

[6:03:44] Voice 13: And so when considering how much population growth your communities can consider, you know, I always think about those kids that are graduating from high school who will be the ones that experience the decisions that the trust makes.

[6:04:06] Voice 13: You know, how do we want to leave these islands for future generations?

[6:04:13] Voice 13: Will future generations approve of how we've changed them?

[6:04:17] Voice 13: Will they still get the benefits we enjoy?

[6:04:22] Voice 13: And, you know, once again, I'm just offering thoughts, and many of you will have already considered this in more detail than I can imagine.

[6:04:32] Voice 13: But, you know, in San Juan County, as an example, they are so envious of the fact that we have a preserve and protect mandate.

[6:04:41] Voice 13: It gives us a mandate that is so important when making difficult land use decisions.

[6:04:54] Voice 13: You know, Bill Clinton once said, it's the economy, stupid.

[6:04:59] Voice 13: And all I can say is for the trust area, you know, it's all about the money.

[6:05:08] Voice 13: You know, when every meeting I go to in terms of housing or in terms of health care, it's all about the money.

[6:05:19] Voice 13: And I've spent, you know, my whole professional life on behalf of local governments.

[6:05:28] Voice 13: I represented 21 local governments up in northwest B.C. in negotiations over revenue sharing and representing First Nations.

[6:05:38] Voice 13: And so out of all of this, if there's one thing, one suggestion I want to urge you to consider particularly carefully is to get the B.C. government to yes.

[6:05:53] Voice 13: uh you bring all the parties together you build a solution yourself you you address all the concerns

[6:06:04] Voice 13: that you can think they're going to have um you know and then you whittle it down until you have

[6:06:10] Voice 13: one ask or you know for the government so that so when you're going to a minister or going into a

[6:06:18] Voice 13: a housing uh discussion or or anything in terms of what's needed to preserve and protect the trust

[6:06:26] Voice 13: that you are uh you've answered all the questions and then sure enough there will be some some

[6:06:33] Voice 13: gifted public servants who are paid within the bc government to figure out how to say no

[6:06:42] Voice 13: because that's their job and you just have to be relentless and and and uh you know wrap it up in

[6:06:50] Voice 13: a neat little bow and and be never give up and and my experience with that is the most recent

[6:06:58] Voice 13: experience with that was the bamfield road the road between port alberni and bamfield has had

[6:07:04] Voice 13: had fatalities, particularly First Nations fatalities, for the last 45, 50, 60 years.

[6:07:12] Voice 13: And every premier in this province since the 1980s has been approached by the Hauai at First

[6:07:22] Voice 13: Nation to say, you've got to fix that road. People are dying on that road. And every premier would

[6:07:29] Voice 13: would say, you know what, it's really want to do it, but it's not at the top of our list.

[6:07:35] Voice 13: And so then what we did and what I was tasked with in 2015 was take another run at it.

[6:07:44] Voice 13: And so what we did is we went out and hired engineers and we did what I'm describing,

[6:07:50] Voice 13: wrapped it up in a neat little bow and said, OK, it'll be 120 million.

[6:07:54] Voice 13: And then, of course, the province said, oh, my God, we don't have $120 million for Port Albertine to Banfield.

[6:08:03] Voice 13: And so then we said, oh, okay, fine.

[6:08:06] Voice 13: So then we went away and we came back with a $30 million proposal, which was chip seal instead of paving.

[6:08:14] Voice 13: But with lots of flag people and lots of side routes, so you didn't have to wait for an hour trying to get out of Ganges.

[6:08:24] Voice 13: um i just had to get that in uh and and so um and and so of course in ministry transportation

[6:08:32] Voice 13: came back and had the list of five things well oh darn uh 120 million dollar price tag and where's

[6:08:40] Voice 13: only 30 oh okay well what we need to do is we need to make sure that you have um tunnels under the

[6:08:49] Voice 13: road for a particular endangered species and we said oh yeah we can do that that's no problem

[6:08:55] Voice 13: oh well you have to do all the maintenance so then we went to the forest companies and

[6:08:59] Voice 13: dealt them into doing the maintenance because with a better road they have less

[6:09:05] Voice 13: wear and tear on the truck long story short we just kept at it and at it and at it and by 2019

[6:09:11] Voice 13: they basically run out of reasons not to do the tip seal and and you know the unfortunate part

[6:09:22] Voice 13: about this is that we are still getting a no but when you least expect it something really good or

[6:09:29] Voice 13: something really awful happens that gets you yes in that case it was students on a bus trip from

[6:09:39] Voice 13: uvic that lost their lives on that road and that was the the uh the event unfortunately that that

[6:09:49] Voice 13: caused the premier at the time uh the late john horgan to approve that funding my point is we've

[6:09:57] Voice 13: done all the work we it was quote unquote shovel ready it was wrapped up in a neat little boat

[6:10:03] Voice 13: All the possible reasons why it wouldn't make sense had been dispensed with, and it's a tipping point, and that was the tipping point.

[6:10:14] Voice 13: It's not always a bad tipping point.

[6:10:16] Voice 13: It can be a good tipping point, too.

[6:10:17] Voice 13: Just about done.

[6:10:18] Voice 13: One, when you bring recommendations or suggestions to government, build it yourself, you know, make specific proposals.

[6:10:33] Voice 13: And, you know, I totally respect that you've asked for a fairly open-ended review of the trust and, you know, might have been one of my predecessors that actually said this is what you should do.

[6:10:47] Voice 13: But my experience, based over many, many years, is that as hard as it is, you need to go with specific asks.

[6:11:01] Voice 13: Otherwise, what happens is that the very well-meaning public servants on the third floor of a building on Humboldt Street will be the ones that decide how things are going to get done.

[6:11:16] Voice 13: And then they bring it to the minister or they bring it to the deputy minister.

[6:11:21] Voice 13: They take it through various other parts of government.

[6:11:24] Voice 13: And that's the solution on offer.

[6:11:27] Voice 13: And once that comes out, it is so hard if it's missing the mark, and it usually does, to get it re-steered.

[6:11:36] Voice 13: It's way better, and it takes time to come forward with a specific set of proposals.

[6:11:41] Voice 13: proposals um last but not least as you can see i'm i'm uh choosing my words carefully this afternoon

[6:11:53] Voice 13: um look please don't shoot me don't shoot the messenger my my observations uh i'm i'm bringing

[6:12:03] Voice 13: for your consideration uh you know based on my experience and and based on the values

[6:12:11] Voice 13: I exercise, everything's connected, respect, and less luck, which means taking care of the environment and the people.

[6:12:23] Voice 13: And, you know, I really appreciate the opportunity to offer you some suggestions for your consideration.

[6:12:31] Voice 13: And, you know, I really want to work together with you to preserve and protect the trust area.

[6:12:41] Voice 13: And I think, you know, that's the case for every government that's involved in the trust area.

[6:12:51] Voice 13: It is so special, and I really, really, really want to work with the chair and others to make this happen, and thank you.

[6:13:07] Voice 26: Thank you very much.

[6:13:17] Trustee Patrick: For logistics here, I guess we have only until 5.30.

[6:13:20] Trustee Patrick: What time is dinner scheduled to start?

[6:13:23] Trustee Patrick: 6 p.m.

[6:13:25] Trustee Patrick: mla bottle are you open to um questions or yeah questions or cocktails there's no cocktails out

[6:13:32] Trustee Patrick: there so it looks like questions

[6:13:33] Voice 13: cocktails are you oh

[6:13:36] Voice 13: sure i'm happy to answer

[6:13:38] Voice 13: questions i

[6:13:38] Voice 13: and you know i just say at the outset um i've been really busy in the legislature but uh

[6:13:46] Voice 13: got more time over the summer and my door's always open and i'll do everything i can to

[6:13:53] Voice 13: And, you know, if anybody wants to meet with me and spend some time with me, I'm certainly open to that.

[6:14:01] Voice 13: I know that before the chair headed back east last week, we had a great meal at Fulford for an hour, an hour and a half.

[6:14:14] Voice 13: And I'm more than happy to meet anybody.

[6:14:17] Voice 13: And I've got a sailboat.

[6:14:18] Voice 13: So, you know, if it involves sailing to particular islands, I'm happy to do that too.

[6:14:26] Trustee Patrick: Christine, does anyone have any questions?

[6:14:28] Trustee Patrick: Christine Morrison, I think, has been waving from the beginning of your speech.

[6:14:34] Voice 14: Thanks for being here.

[6:14:36] Voice 14: I think, you know, given our meeting that we had at the Southern Gulf Islands Forum

[6:14:40] Voice 14: and some of the questions we had around how you think about the trust,

[6:14:44] Voice 14: it would be helpful, and given some of the conversations we have had today,

[6:14:49] Voice 14: it would be helpful to know um like you say that the trust council the trustees have tools to be

[6:14:59] Voice 14: able to do the work of the trust i would argue especially with your extensive experience with

[6:15:05] Voice 14: first nations relations that a government to government function for the province to work

[6:15:10] Voice 14: with first nations to understand what is the structural co-design co-management effort in

[6:15:17] Voice 14: the trust is actually critical and that trustees sitting at this table while wonderful and care

[6:15:23] Voice 14: and very situated in community don't represent all the interests in the trust because first nations

[6:15:28] Voice 14: are not here at this table and so we can't offer all the solutions possible because we don't have

[6:15:35] Voice 14: all the people so what is the role of the province in helping to manage that aspect of trust reform

[6:15:41] Voice 14: one yeah

[6:15:43] Trustee Patrick: so oh you're gonna have to hit your microphone again it goes off

[6:15:48] Voice 13: there's that is

[6:15:49] Voice 13: that okay now yeah yeah uh it's a journey and you've started the journey there are some parts

[6:16:00] Voice 13: of the province that have completed the journey like in maida guay um you can see in the uh

[6:16:09] Voice 13: uh alberni valley with the alberni clackwood regional district that uh there has been a

[6:16:17] Voice 13: mutually agreed way uh to bring uh nations into the table and um you know some of you may have met

[6:16:28] Voice 13: actually the current chief of quiet john jack who's the chair of the alberni clackwood regional

[6:16:35] Voice 13: district um the path forward and the way in which the province can assist is to um help facilitate

[6:16:46] Voice 13: building building that relationship step by step you've done a lot of work but there's lots there's

[6:16:54] Voice 13: lots the province can do and i'm sure if you know in an upcoming meeting with the minister uh you

[6:17:02] Voice 13: You can raise that.

[6:17:04] Voice 13: And the path forward for me and what I've seen in other parts of the province,

[6:17:15] Voice 13: and I've been representing First Nations, is to take something that's important but somewhat manageable

[6:17:24] Voice 13: and use that as a bit of a model to start a co-management approach.

[6:17:29] Voice 13: approach. And I mean, the lawyers may disagree with me. Some of the other lawyers may disagree

[6:17:37] Voice 13: with me. But you know what? That's all about doing exactly what you're doing. I think a fair

[6:17:44] Voice 13: amount with sayout, for example, is you're building that relationship. And the last step

[6:17:51] Voice 13: is actually getting the lawyers involved to put things down on paper and figure out how you're

[6:17:58] Voice 13: are going to put that into force and i can say i've i've on behalf of nations i've i've negotiated

[6:18:07] Voice 13: lots and lots of government to government and government industry type of agreements

[6:18:15] Voice 13: mous that that sort of are the first step down the path to what the province is committed to

[6:18:24] Voice 13: in the long-term is Section 7 type of co-management agreements,

[6:18:29] Voice 13: but that's 10 years down the road

[6:18:31] Voice 13: because you've got to build it really carefully

[6:18:34] Voice 13: because if you go off the rails partway,

[6:18:38] Voice 13: you can spend a whole lot of time

[6:18:41] Voice 13: and you have to go back and start again.

[6:18:42] Voice 13: It's sort of like snakes and ladders.

[6:18:47] Voice 15: Trustee Boland?

[6:18:52] Voice 15: Emily Marshall, thank you so much for coming to see us.

[6:18:56] Voice 15: I have so many questions.

[6:18:57] Voice 15: questions I don't believe that you are as well informed about us and the details of how we work

[6:19:05] Voice 15: and the work we have done as you may think and I think you speak about reaching consensus and

[6:19:13] Voice 15: extensive you know discussion but you didn't do that with us and you're saying things which are

[6:19:19] Voice 15: really factually wrong you talk about the fact that the trust policy statement and nobody has

[6:19:25] Voice 15: seen the new one. The first draft of the new one was in 2021. The work began in 2019. That draft

[6:19:34] Voice 15: caused such negative reaction in the communities that we around this table, some of us were elected

[6:19:41] Voice 15: directly as a result of that draft, and people were dislodged because they had supported that

[6:19:48] Voice 15: draft. And now you say that we don't have a mandate and that we should wait until after

[6:19:54] Voice 15: to the next election to go ahead with that trust policy statement that's my first question why

[6:20:00] Voice 15: would an election in 2022 now not be valid and the second thing i want to ask you about is fiscal

[6:20:09] Voice 15: you refer to the fact that we have to manage everything in a fiscally responsible manner

[6:20:15] Voice 15: and and you talk about bone island and the cost having risen the trust policy the trust budget

[6:20:23] Voice 15: has gone from, I'm guessing now,

[6:20:25] Voice 15: but let's say three or four million in 200

[6:20:28] Voice 15: to 11.7 million.

[6:20:31] Voice 15: 10% of it is spent on Islands Trust Conservancy.

[6:20:35] Voice 15: And within that budget,

[6:20:37] Voice 15: we are expected to consult extensively

[6:20:40] Voice 15: and more than we have with 31 First Nations.

[6:20:44] Voice 15: People talk about the fact

[6:20:46] Voice 15: that we were given $150,000

[6:20:48] Voice 15: over a five-year period to do that work.

[6:20:51] Voice 15: That works out at $1,000 per First Nations per year.

[6:20:57] Voice 15: I don't think that that's going to cover coffee and donuts, basically,

[6:21:02] Voice 15: for extensive engagement and building consensus.

[6:21:06] Voice 15: So my question to you is, are you going to help us ask the government

[6:21:11] Voice 15: for further funding to support what you deem we should be doing

[6:21:16] Voice 15: and what they deem we should be doing?

[6:21:18] Voice 15: because consulting with 31 First Nations is a huge piece of work.

[6:21:24] Voice 15: And to do that, as you say, in a fiscally responsible manner is very costly.

[6:21:29] Voice 15: So I have two questions.

[6:21:31] Voice 15: One is, why do you think we don't have an electoral mandate

[6:21:34] Voice 15: to proceed with the trust policy statement?

[6:21:37] Voice 15: And the second one is, will you help us get funding

[6:21:39] Voice 15: for the work that you both seem to think we need to do more of?

[6:21:44] Voice 15: Thank you.

[6:21:47] Voice 13: i'm going to ask uh answer those in reverse order um in terms of uh consultation with for

[6:21:57] Voice 13: oops

[6:21:58] Voice 22: oh well i get it um in terms

[6:22:02] Voice 13: of i'll uh i'll have to stay close to that

[6:22:04] Voice 13: in terms of consultation with first nations and engagement with uh first nations

[6:22:10] Voice 13: uh first step is it's not for me to decide uh what what you see as being

[6:22:22] Voice 13: the right amount of consultation i'm offering you some thoughts based on my experience

[6:22:29] Voice 13: so it isn't what i deem is necessary it isn't what the minister deems is necessary it isn't

[6:22:38] Voice 13: what other MLA's

[6:22:40] Voice 13: I'm not the only MLA in this

[6:22:42] Voice 13: that has the

[6:22:44] Voice 13: privilege of having

[6:22:46] Voice 13: the trust area within

[6:22:48] Voice 13: arriving

[6:22:49] Voice 13: but the short answer

[6:22:52] Voice 13: is yeah definitely

[6:22:53] Voice 13: if you're looking for my support

[6:22:56] Voice 13: as an MLA

[6:22:58] Voice 13: to bring forward to

[6:23:00] Voice 13: the minister and the minister of

[6:23:02] Voice 13: finance and

[6:23:04] Voice 13: you know the BC government generally

[6:23:06] Voice 13: the federal government

[6:23:09] Voice 13: um you know a request for funding that would take that would feed into next year's like the fall

[6:23:19] Voice 13: the fall budget cycle i'll definitely support that i'm not i'm not going to be so that's a

[6:23:26] Voice 13: two-part answer the first part is it's it's you're the trust not me and i will certainly support uh

[6:23:35] Voice 13: getting the funding you need to be able to do the engagement

[6:23:38] Voice 13: that's going to build the relationship with the nations in the trust area.

[6:23:44] Voice 13: To the first question, the rest of my comments has always been take care.

[6:24:02] Voice 13: Take care and think about how you want to proceed.

[6:24:05] Voice 13: Once again, you're the audience trust. You're the government. You have the decision to make about how and when you will pass the policy, the new policy statement.

[6:24:20] Voice 13: What I've heard, and, you know, I stand to be corrected, what I've heard is that the trust statement that will be considered, and I understand maybe later in July,

[6:24:40] Voice 13: is going to have a fair number of changes

[6:24:45] Voice 13: compared to the last iteration of the trust statement.

[6:24:51] Voice 13: And if I'm wrong, then the premise of my observation is wrong too.

[6:25:01] Voice 13: But my experience with First Nations

[6:25:06] Voice 13: And my experience with a lot of my neighbors over many years, both on Pender and in Saanich and North Saanich and Sydney and Victoria, is that once something receives first reading, suddenly everybody wakes up and smells the coffee.

[6:25:30] Voice 13: And so that was just my experience.

[6:25:34] Voice 13: I mean, I'm not saying others shouldn't have different views.

[6:25:38] Voice 13: That ends up being the start.

[6:25:41] Voice 13: But what, and the thrust of all of my comments is, yeah, you've got a mandate.

[6:25:47] Voice 13: You're elected.

[6:25:49] Voice 13: The thrust of the point I've been making, in as respectful a manner as I can,

[6:25:56] Voice 13: I can, is that we all

[6:26:00] Voice 13: want one thing, which is that we

[6:26:03] Voice 13: don't want what's happening

[6:26:08] Voice 13: in other parts of Canada and

[6:26:12] Voice 13: in the U.S., which is you get this huge pendulum

[6:26:16] Voice 13: swing. So you do a whole bunch of work. You pass

[6:26:20] Voice 13: something, say right before an election, and then

[6:26:24] Voice 13: then all of a sudden, because it's gone through,

[6:26:29] Voice 13: it becomes the reason to step back from it.

[6:26:33] Voice 13: And that's just my view.

[6:26:35] Voice 13: And I respect that you may have a completely different view.

[6:26:43] Voice 21: Trustee Peterson.

[6:26:46] Voice 10: Yeah, thank you for coming, Mr. Broderill.

[6:26:52] Voice 10: It's kind of a shame you didn't get the opportunity to come here

[6:26:56] Voice 10: This afternoon, a little earlier, when we had a roundtable, the entire Trust Council, on Minister Kaelin's letter, the reason I put my hand up to ask a question is you said we have the tools.

[6:27:16] Voice 10: And one of the things I said in the roundtable is I actually really push back against that notion in the minister's letter.

[6:27:27] Voice 10: In particular, the reality that we have 31-plus First Nations in the Honest Trust area.

[6:27:35] Voice 10: And the minister's letter goes on to say that he expects that Honest Trust will take particular care

[6:27:42] Voice 10: to ensure that engagement with the public and First Nations are undertaken in a manner that

[6:27:47] Voice 10: demonstrates mutual respect and builds towards consensus. So when it comes to First Nations

[6:27:52] Voice 10: relationship building and engagement, my view is that the toolbox has glaring holes. And aside from

[6:28:00] Voice 10: our financial and staff capacity, we also lack the tools to address the expressed desires of First

[6:28:07] Voice 10: nations that we have heard to have meaningful representation and voices at our decision-making

[6:28:12] Voice 10: tables let alone actual co-governance which was one of the elements in our our request to the

[6:28:19] Voice 10: province for review so i just think it's important that you know that and i'm glad to hear that

[6:28:24] Voice 10: you're willing to uh support uh funding requests um out of trust council for that uh that first

[6:28:34] Voice 10: nations engagement and relationship building because it's vital to the work we do to do as

[6:28:39] Voice 10: the minister says in a manner that demonstrates mutual respect and builds towards consensus it's

[6:28:45] Voice 10: a massive job it's a massive job and there's no way i said this earlier there's no way that this

[6:28:51] Voice 10: body can tax our constituents to the level um uh that is required to fund engagement with 31

[6:29:01] Voice 10: nations and in a way that

[6:29:04] Voice 10: demonstrates mutual respect. So I'm

[6:29:05] Voice 10: glad to hear you're willing to work with us.

[6:29:07] Voice 10: I also note that

[6:29:09] Voice 10: my thought

[6:29:11] Voice 10: on this is that this needs to be ongoing

[6:29:14] Voice 10: funding. This can't be

[6:29:16] Voice 10: a one-off

[6:29:19] Voice 10: this year

[6:29:21] Voice 10: or $150,000

[6:29:22] Voice 10: for five years or something.

[6:29:24] Voice 10: The scale is massive, so I'm glad to hear

[6:29:26] Voice 10: that you're willing to support our request

[6:29:29] Voice 10: when we're

[6:29:30] Voice 10: going to make the next one, our next steps.

[6:29:33] Voice 13: Thank you again for coming

[6:29:35] Voice 13: today. I don't know if

[6:29:39] Voice 13: there's a question there, but I'll pretend there was.

[6:29:44] Voice 13: I

[6:29:48] Voice 13: think that the way in which to

[6:29:53] Voice 13: get that funding is to apply

[6:29:57] Voice 13: work together and apply

[6:29:59] Voice 13: lives.

[6:30:00] Voice 13: And I'm happy to offer my experience, and I don't pretend to be down, you know, have the detailed knowledge you do.

[6:30:09] Voice 13: But in terms of how to frame this up to maximize the chances that you'll get that type of long-term funding that's sufficient to get the work done

[6:30:24] Voice 13: in an environment where this government is going to run a $14 billion deficit this year,

[6:30:32] Voice 13: that's a challenge, and I'm happy to work with you to, you know, put our absolute best foot forward.

[6:30:40] Voice 13: The other thing that, you know, I'm conscious of is that it's, I guess it's probably 175 years,

[6:30:52] Voice 13: But, you know, for the last hundred, it took us 175 years to get into this mess, and it's horrific how Indigenous people in this country, in BC, have, what they've suffered through, and we're starting to step it in the right direction.

[6:31:14] Voice 13: And part of the task is to build a plan and a funding model, just like you say, that is long-term and not one-shot, and to map it out in terms of something that's accomplished over a number of years rather than, you know, really quick.

[6:31:37] Voice 13: because that's both part of the physical reality,

[6:31:43] Voice 13: but it's also part of the process of building trust.

[6:31:48] Voice 13: And some nations will be right there with you right away,

[6:31:50] Voice 13: as you know, and others, it's going to take some time.

[6:31:54] Voice 13: And, you know, so anyway, I'm happy to work with you.

[6:31:59] Trustee Patrick: We're going to take two final questions.

[6:32:02] Trustee Patrick: It'll be Trustee Bernardo,

[6:32:03] Trustee Patrick: and we'll let Trustee Getty have the final question.

[6:32:08] Voice 11: Thank you, Chair. Thank you for coming, Mr. Botterill. I'm going to make a bit of a change

[6:32:15] Voice 11: of pace with my question. I come from a local trust area that has less than 450 electors.

[6:32:24] Voice 11: Salt Spring, that local trust area, has over 12,000. My vote at Trust Council has the same

[6:32:32] Voice 11: weight as that of the trustees from salt spring um for me that's kind of an issue and uh since

[6:32:41] Voice 11: you're an advocate for proportional representation i'd like to know what are your views about the

[6:32:45] Voice 11: fact that the trust council because of this voting structure that we have doesn't actually

[6:32:50] Voice 11: observe even the most basic principle of representation by population um we don't

[6:32:57] Voice 11: have that problem obviously at the local trust committee level but uh it's an issue here at

[6:33:02] Voice 11: least in my mind and i'd like to know what your thoughts are on that thank you yeah

[6:33:08] Voice 13: the uh the

[6:33:09] Voice 13: path forward on that issue uh it from my perspective is uh that you would uh if if the

[6:33:19] Voice 13: trust council is of a mind you would take forward a specific proposal to fix that and and so where i

[6:33:31] Voice 13: may differ from some trustees

[6:33:33] Voice 13: who are on the table

[6:33:34] Voice 13: is don't ask the government

[6:33:38] Voice 13: to fix it in general terms

[6:33:40] Voice 13: but we did on behalf

[6:33:42] Voice 13: of First Nations when we wanted

[6:33:44] Voice 13: to see something done

[6:33:45] Voice 13: in policy or legislation

[6:33:47] Voice 13: we actually drafted it

[6:33:49] Voice 13: we said here minister sign

[6:33:51] Voice 13: here and

[6:33:53] Voice 13: you know sure that

[6:33:56] Voice 13: costs time and effort

[6:33:58] Voice 13: and but

[6:33:59] Voice 13: but that's the path forward so from my perspective uh a change in the decision-making structure

[6:34:06] Voice 13: of the trust is for you to propose with some specifics and sure i i mean the whole issue of

[6:34:15] Voice 13: um proportional representation and equitable voting is is just as much an issue here it is

[6:34:24] Voice 13: as it is in some other local governments,

[6:34:28] Voice 13: as it is provincially and federally.

[6:34:33] Trustee Patrick: Thank you.

[6:34:34] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Getty, final question.

[6:34:38] Voice 16: Well, this is an opportunity.

[6:34:42] Voice 16: Rob, when you were first elected,

[6:34:43] Voice 16: I was just over the moon excited that we had a green MLA,

[6:34:49] Voice 16: that you knew about the trust,

[6:34:51] Voice 16: and that you're intelligent,

[6:34:55] Voice 16: you have all sorts of good credentials and good contacts and it was going to be just this

[6:35:00] Voice 16: absolutely golden opportunity and I think the first letter that got published from you in your

[6:35:06] Voice 16: first report was a little bit of a setback and I want to offer that we really need to build

[6:35:14] Voice 16: relationships and we really need to both with the MLAs and with our local governments and with our

[6:35:21] Voice 16: first nations and that's how we're going to move forward so the next time that you get all of your

[6:35:26] Voice 16: information from the driftwood um i want you to you have my home phone number if you sail across

[6:35:33] Voice 16: the street i'll vacuum my living room and move the piles of paper so that we can sit down and

[6:35:39] Voice 16: have a conversation in terms of you know is there another side to this so that you have um i think a

[6:35:46] Voice 16: different perspective. I am the chair of the governance committee and I'm very familiar with

[6:35:52] Voice 16: the process that we went through in terms of discussing the mandate and the mistakes that

[6:35:57] Voice 16: we made and the problems that we had. And I think it would have helped to clarify a lot of

[6:36:04] Voice 16: some of what I think the feeling around this table is that you were poorly informed and it

[6:36:11] Voice 16: it was unfortunate we also we all came into this job and i'm um i feel for you because it's when

[6:36:18] Voice 16: we take on a new position it's a gigantic learning curve and it's just so many um ways of of making a

[6:36:26] Voice 16: mistake and i think i feel that's what happened with the reporting out of the mandate and the

[6:36:32] Voice 16: discussion that we had but we can correct it and we can um move things and i think that if we can

[6:36:38] Voice 16: figure out how to collaborate and how to take the best advantage of all of the access that we have

[6:36:45] Voice 16: to all the ministers through you and all of the information and the help that you can give in

[6:36:50] Voice 16: terms of that access with us that we have the possibility of certainly in the last however

[6:36:57] Voice 16: many months we've got of our term we're well into it but we're you know i see the light at the end

[6:37:03] Voice 16: end of the tunnel i might get back to my wonderful retirement but um you know i don't it's this

[6:37:12] Voice 16: sounds like you're a little bit defensive it sounds like what you're but you're trying to

[6:37:16] Voice 16: offer a whole bunch and i want us all to be able to take advantage of that and to build on um you

[6:37:22] Voice 16: know repairing anything and moving things along and um i think that um the fact that uh you're

[6:37:30] Voice 16: here today is fantastic and all the things that you've suggested and offered are really good

[6:37:37] Voice 16: grounds for conversations and i think that um as the last word um i'm i'm going to work on making

[6:37:46] Voice 16: sure that this is really really positive so you have friends here um you also have some people

[6:37:52] Voice 16: that are very outspoken and have strong opinions and will tell you what they think that's island

[6:37:56] Voice 16: Island and you know all about that from Bowen so it's um you know we'll we will get through this

[6:38:02] Voice 16: and I'm I welcome you and thank you for being here well

[6:38:06] Voice 13: no thank you very much Judy and thank

[6:38:08] Voice 13: you everybody for the opportunity to share share some suggestions for your consideration

[6:38:15] Voice 13: um you know what I'm looking forward to working together we're not always going to agree on

[6:38:22] Voice 13: everything and that's okay and you know I'm committed to making sure that I hear

[6:38:29] Voice 13: and spend as much time as I can with all of you and particularly Judy when I sail

[6:38:36] Voice 13: over to one island to make sure I have you know the full picture before I weigh

[6:38:44] Voice 13: in on anything well

[6:38:46] Trustee Patrick: thank you and I think you're joining us for dinner so

[6:38:49] Trustee Patrick: So please, your questions went unanswered.

[6:38:52] Trustee Patrick: He's still here.

[6:38:53] Trustee Patrick: So thank you for coming.

[6:38:55] Trustee Patrick: And yes, relationships going forward.

[6:38:57] Trustee Patrick: That's what we're doing.

[6:38:58] Trustee Patrick: We're building relationships with many First Nations.

[6:39:01] Trustee Patrick: It's not just South First Nations.

[6:39:03] Trustee Patrick: It's up and down the coast,

[6:39:04] Trustee Patrick: working through protocol agreements

[6:39:05] Trustee Patrick: for a small organization with small capacity.

[6:39:09] Trustee Patrick: We're actually doing quite a bit.

[6:39:11] Trustee Patrick: So look forward to dinner.

[6:39:13] Trustee Patrick: And thank you.

[6:39:14] Trustee Patrick: And thanks to our guest again,

[6:39:16] Trustee Patrick: one right around all the blogs.

[6:39:24] Voice 21: and we're recently