Denman Island Local Trust Committee special meeting, June 26, 2025

[0:00:09] Voice 7: Okay,

[0:00:13] Voice 5: so we're being live streamed. I'm recording. I just, oh, I see the recording part. There we go. Cool. Okay. Good afternoon, everybody. Thank you for joining us today for this special meeting of the Denman Island Local Trust Committee.

[0:00:37] Voice 5: I want to begin the meeting by acknowledging that we are all fortunate to be able to gather today in locations across the territory of the Coast Salish people. I'm David Maude, elected on Main Island, the chair of the Denman Island Local Trust Committee.

[0:00:48] Voice 5: I'm joined today by our Deming Island trustees, David Graham and Sam Morthwick.

[0:00:54] Voice 5: Together we make up the Deming Island Local Trust Committee.

[0:00:58] Voice 5: This meeting is being livestreamed and recorded for those who are unable to attend in person today.

[0:01:04] Voice 5: The recording will be posted to the Islands Trust website for future viewing.

[0:01:08] Voice 5: We have some staff members joining us today.

[0:01:11] Voice 5: We have Narissa Chadwick, our wonderful housing planner, which we very much appreciate.

[0:01:18] Voice 5: appreciate. Marlis McCarger, our planner planner for Denman Island. We have Catherine Boyd, who

[0:01:25] Voice 5: is doing our meeting minutes. And we have Koi Straw, who's the background master of the Zoom

[0:01:35] Voice 5: and all things electronic. And we very much appreciate her services. I don't think I left

[0:01:41] Voice 5: out anybody. So this meeting is an official forum for your local trust committee to make

[0:01:46] Voice 5: decisions about land use planning matters

[0:01:48] Voice 5: and discuss relevant business.

[0:01:50] Voice 5: So before us, we have an agenda,

[0:01:52] Voice 5: fairly straightforward.

[0:01:54] Voice 5: Does anybody have any additions to the agenda?

[0:01:59] Voice 5: If not, by general consent,

[0:02:01] Voice 5: we can adopt the agenda as circulated.

[0:02:04] Voice 5: We have one business item, 4.1,

[0:02:08] Voice 5: which is major project,

[0:02:09] Voice 5: Demand Housing Official Community Plan

[0:02:11] Voice 5: and Land Use By-law Review Project,

[0:02:14] Voice 5: Demand Housing Phase 2 Community Engagement

[0:02:17] Voice 5: topics, staff reports. So I believe that we'll be handing it over to Planner Chadwick.

[0:02:24] Voice 5: Thank

[0:02:26] Planner Chadwick: you, Chair Maude. Yeah, so Marlis

[0:02:27] Planner Chadwick: and I are going to present those together. And I would

[0:02:32] Planner Chadwick: just would like to emphasize that this is a collaborative effort between myself and Marlis.

[0:02:40] Planner Chadwick: and um um well sorry my okay that's better um yeah so i'll i'll i can give a basic overview

[0:02:50] Planner Chadwick: and then um and then i'll um i'll hand it over to marlis to talk about some specifics around

[0:02:56] Planner Chadwick: the density bank and the floor area coverage limits and then i can talk a little bit more

[0:03:00] Planner Chadwick: about cluster housing and uh detached secondary dwelling units so um we are here uh today to have

[0:03:09] Planner Chadwick: these discussions because um it was made very clear that there were some kind of key key areas

[0:03:17] Planner Chadwick: key topic areas that the um that the community um had identified that they they want more discussion

[0:03:25] Planner Chadwick: on and that came out very clearly at the march meeting lcc meeting and so these topics um

[0:03:31] Planner Chadwick: As I just identified, our density bank floor area and lot coverage limits a small unit detached cluster housing and increasing permission for secondary dwellings.

[0:03:44] Planner Chadwick: um and so at the um at the may 8th uh ltc special meeting the ltc discussed options for community

[0:03:57] Planner Chadwick: engagement as a means of sharing some of the information um related to these and some some

[0:04:04] Planner Chadwick: options um and the the trustees were sort of quite provided quite clear direction to staff

[0:04:11] Planner Chadwick: that they were interested in us coming back with some options for discussion so that's what we've

[0:04:15] Planner Chadwick: done here so what we've done is we've provided um just a bit of overview on each topic and then

[0:04:21] Planner Chadwick: um and then as attachments you've received um basically communications material

[0:04:31] Planner Chadwick: which identify uh like specific options for discussion so um what we'd like to do today

[0:04:39] Planner Chadwick: is to get your um to get an understanding of uh your feelings about putting those uh that material

[0:04:48] Planner Chadwick: out for discussion um again this discussion isn't about making a decision it's about what you feel

[0:04:55] Planner Chadwick: comfortable with um as a focus for discussion and how that's been framed for those three topics

[0:05:01] Planner Chadwick: topics. Is there any general questions from the outset? All good? Okay. So we'll just dive in and

[0:05:14] Planner Chadwick: maybe identify what sort of staff have recommended as options. And we can have

[0:05:22] Planner Chadwick: discussion on each one of those areas. So we might as well go in the way that it's all laid

[0:05:31] Planner Chadwick: out here, starting with Density Bank. So Marlis has been doing that work. So I'll pass it over

[0:05:36] Planner Chadwick: to you, Marlis. So Trustee Graham's got a question.

[0:05:39] Voice 6: Yeah, I'm just thinking before we

[0:05:41] Voice 6: dive into the specific recommendations, perhaps we should just touch base on the format of the

[0:05:47] Voice 6: public engagement. I know in your briefing, you're suggesting that the marketplace is a go,

[0:05:54] Voice 6: Go, but you are concerned that you wouldn't be able to attend

[0:05:58] Voice 6: if we did a hall in the afternoon.

[0:06:02] Voice 6: And am I correct in that one, in that assumption?

[0:06:06] Planner Chadwick: So it's not necessarily – so the – we had sort of discussed

[0:06:12] Planner Chadwick: potentially collaborating with the Conservancy

[0:06:17] Planner Chadwick: and also providing some information,

[0:06:22] Planner Chadwick: some of Comox's reflections on the process, and we won't have the time to have that all

[0:06:30] Planner Chadwick: kind of organized for the 26th. There is opportunity for us to be on island,

[0:06:37] Planner Chadwick: but sort of a wholesome sort of focused, and also just also in terms of looking at

[0:06:46] Planner Chadwick: at all all how our um vacation times are set out it it will be challenging for us to to have like a

[0:06:53] Planner Chadwick: a breadth of materials and a well-planned out uh sort of engagement session for that for that

[0:07:00] Planner Chadwick: timing

[0:07:01] Voice 6: so that's so we've already started the uh advertising of this 26th of july because that's

[0:07:11] Voice 6: we talked about we looked at potential agendas and we discussed what worked for us

[0:07:23] Voice 6: so I know I'm prepared to spend the time at the market I am available that morning I need

[0:07:29] Voice 6: materials though to stand in front and I'm happy to explain what we're suggesting and I'm also

[0:07:36] Voice 6: happy to take those materials to the hall and spend the afternoon there for those people that

[0:07:40] Voice 6: that weren't able to go to the market.

[0:07:41] Voice 6: I think it's really important that we give our community

[0:07:46] Voice 6: as much time as possible to at least hear

[0:07:49] Voice 6: and ask questions and talk to the trustees.

[0:07:52] Voice 6: So I'm concerned.

[0:07:55] Voice 6: I don't think it's,

[0:07:57] Voice 6: it's not necessary to have all the materials.

[0:07:59] Voice 6: As you say, you won't have your,

[0:08:01] Voice 6: whatever you were talking to them in Conservancy about,

[0:08:04] Voice 6: that's okay, and First Nations, that's fine too,

[0:08:08] Voice 6: but we still have those key things

[0:08:09] Voice 6: that we're about to talk about that we can at least have um to to showcase to our community

[0:08:17] Voice 6: on that particular day like all day so i'm really hoping that we can pull that off

[0:08:23] Planner Chadwick: yeah i mean if you if you're comfortable with a sort of a more informal approach uh and like i

[0:08:29] Planner Chadwick: said we won't have we won't have the opportunity to coordinate as closely with the conservancy as

[0:08:34] Planner Chadwick: as we would have hoped to by that period of time,

[0:08:37] Planner Chadwick: but we can do that later on.

[0:08:39] Planner Chadwick: But if you're comfortable with a more informal approach

[0:08:46] Planner Chadwick: where maybe we can set up discussion tables

[0:08:51] Planner Chadwick: on each topic or organize it in that way,

[0:08:56] Planner Chadwick: we do have the materials that we've already prepared

[0:08:59] Planner Chadwick: and we can do those up in a clearer way.

[0:09:03] Planner Chadwick: And today, this is an opportunity to answer any questions that you may have and also identify what additional information you might need.

[0:09:11] Planner Chadwick: It's a very interesting day for me.

[0:09:13] Planner Chadwick: I've had a very similar conversation with the Gabriola Trust committees on pretty much the same topic today.

[0:09:20] Planner Chadwick: And they were requesting some information materials to be prepared.

[0:09:26] Planner Chadwick: So there is kind of like some efficiencies at play here.

[0:09:31] Planner Chadwick: um we are getting some graphics um created by our um uh phil testamals doing some drawings for us

[0:09:40] Planner Chadwick: to illustrate some key points so those are things that we will be able to have

[0:09:44] Planner Chadwick: uh together by that period of time again uh like i said we'll have enough to be able to have a

[0:09:49] Planner Chadwick: conversation for sure in a more informal way i was just concerned that we wouldn't have an

[0:09:52] Planner Chadwick: opportunity to um properly um collaborate with the with the conservancy on that conversation so

[0:09:57] Planner Chadwick: And

[0:09:59] Voice 6: just to follow up, you have included in your briefing that an opportunity may present itself in September to do a more fulsome and complete community information session. And that's great. I think more the merrier. Yeah.

[0:10:16] Voice 7: Okay.

[0:10:17] Voice 7: That's

[0:10:17] Voice 6: just my thoughts. We need to hear from our other trustees. Please.

[0:10:25] Trustee Borthwick: please um yeah i would agree i think uh and certainly i think um you know public perception

[0:10:32] Trustee Borthwick: for this project will be helped along by uh or would would be hindered by us sort of shying

[0:10:38] Trustee Borthwick: being seen to shy away from that uh engagement opportunity even if it's not necessarily going to

[0:10:43] Trustee Borthwick: be um you know polished i think there'll be quite a lot i think people will be um even people who

[0:10:51] Trustee Borthwick: don't come would be disappointed to see that us not go forward with that having that discussion

[0:10:55] Trustee Borthwick: and i think david and i are you know pretty well pretty well suited to have those conversations

[0:11:01] Trustee Borthwick: and yeah with some resources i think would be fine yeah

[0:11:06] Planner Chadwick: okay so we can make that amendment

[0:11:07] Planner Chadwick: to the timeline and just um and we have retained that we've retained the hall for that um date

[0:11:13] Planner Chadwick: because we want to have the conversation with you before we made any changes so thank you um we'll

[0:11:18] Planner Chadwick: We'll just retain that from the previous that we'll have an engagement session following the market day.

[0:11:25] Planner Chadwick: And so in terms of like that was the other concern.

[0:11:27] Planner Chadwick: So in terms of like getting the word out, I think we've missed the flagstone deadline, unless you've managed to mention it in your trustee report.

[0:11:39] Voice 6: That is my report.

[0:11:41] Voice 6: Oh,

[0:11:41] Planner Chadwick: OK. That's where you mentioned it. OK, perfect. OK.

[0:11:44] Voice 6: That's a full page that talks all about that.

[0:11:47] Voice 6: and uh we should hit the grapevine um i would suggest two weeks uh two submissions the two

[0:11:56] Voice 6: weeks prior to the 26 would be ideal and of course good old facebook and we can't do much

[0:12:03] Planner Chadwick: more than

[0:12:03] Voice 6: that i don't think

[0:12:04] Planner Chadwick: so um so would if we uh would one of you be willing because i don't

[0:12:12] Planner Chadwick: know which facebook i like is this something that uh one of you are able to to tap into that or i

[0:12:19] Planner Chadwick: can talk to morgana she's she's in in i think she must be connected onto the facebook i don't know

[0:12:26] Planner McCargar: that we have like if there's

[0:12:28] Planner McCargar: if it's community facebook pages i

[0:12:29] Planner Chadwick: think yeah then we're not

[0:12:31] Planner Chadwick: it's usually the trustees that that post um

[0:12:34] Trustee Borthwick: i am no longer on facebook in any capacity so

[0:12:37] Trustee Borthwick: So, unfortunately, I can't help.

[0:12:39] Voice 6: I'm happy to put a notice in the – I think there are two community Facebook pages.

[0:12:46] Voice 6: And so I'm happy to put notices in both of those.

[0:12:50] Planner Chadwick: Okay.

[0:12:51] Planner Chadwick: So would you like us to just draft a little

[0:12:52] Voice 6: paragraph?

[0:12:55] Voice 6: Sure.

[0:12:56] Voice 6: Okay.

[0:12:57] Voice 6: That would be great.

[0:12:57] Voice 6: Thank you.

[0:13:11] Planner Chadwick: Okay.

[0:13:14] Planner Chadwick: Are you satisfied that we've addressed that issue, Trustee Graham?

[0:13:19] Voice 6: I am.

[0:13:20] Voice 6: Thank you.

[0:13:21] Planner Chadwick: Okay.

[0:13:21] Planner Chadwick: Excellent.

[0:13:22] Planner McCargar: I'm wondering, just because we're on the topic of engagement, I think we had proposed some possible dates for the more kind of polished community workshop.

[0:13:34] Planner McCargar: Were there

[0:13:35] Planner McCargar: any of those dates that looked good to the trustees here?

[0:13:42] Planner McCargar: It was on page five of the agenda package.

[0:13:47] Voice 6: Could we have the agenda on the screen, please?

[0:13:51] Voice 6: I can share that.

[0:13:57] Voice 6: smart enough to have this window and the agenda on my own computer so there we go cool i think

[0:14:17] Voice 6: september works better um for me i don't know about sam and david

[0:14:22] Trustee Borthwick: i yeah i mean i i suspect

[0:14:25] Trustee Borthwick: it'll be a lot easier for travel uh for for dressy mod and staff um i suspect i think i am

[0:14:34] Trustee Borthwick: i'm busy on the 13th but the 20th could work i will be uh just about to move house to hopefully

[0:14:40] Trustee Borthwick: somewhere but i will be i think that would be fine okay so

[0:14:44] Trustee Borthwick: september 20th

[0:14:46] Voice 6: would be best for me

[0:14:46] Trustee Borthwick: yeah and

[0:14:47] Voice 6: what what day of the week is

[0:14:50] Planner Chadwick: i think this is saturday yeah

[0:14:51] Voice 6: great okay okay thank you

[0:14:56] Planner Chadwick: yeah great i

[0:14:59] Voice 6: wouldn't call it a workshop um i i'm loathe to we

[0:15:05] Planner Chadwick: don't have to call it yeah

[0:15:05] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, what's the best word for us to use?

[0:15:07] Voice 6: That's just a community of information.

[0:15:09] Planner Chadwick: Conversation, engagement session.

[0:15:11] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, okay.

[0:15:12] Voice 6: Good old CIM, whatever you want to call it.

[0:15:15] Voice 6: Yeah, but not workshop, because that kind of implies we're still kind of, you know, building these ideas, and I don't

[0:15:21] Planner Chadwick: want to give that impression.

[0:15:22] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, I agree with you.

[0:15:23] Planner Chadwick: Okay.

[0:15:23] Voice 6: Yeah.

[0:15:25] Voice 6: Thanks.

[0:15:27] Planner Chadwick: CIM.

[0:15:29] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, okay.

[0:15:34] Planner Chadwick: Good.

[0:15:35] Planner Chadwick: Great.

[0:15:37] Planner Chadwick: All right.

[0:15:38] Planner Chadwick: Should we dig into the content here?

[0:15:43] Planner Chadwick: Miles, do you want to

[0:15:44] Planner Chadwick: start us off?

[0:15:45] Planner Chadwick: Yeah.

[0:15:46] Planner McCargar: Start the dig.

[0:15:46] Planner McCargar: Yeah, I can start it.

[0:15:48] Planner McCargar: So I figure we'll just kind of go take it topic by topic.

[0:15:52] Planner McCargar: Does that sound good?

[0:15:55] Planner McCargar: We won't give an overview of all of them.

[0:15:56] Planner McCargar: We'll just go one at a time here.

[0:16:01] Planner McCargar: So we'll start with the Density Bank.

[0:16:03] Planner McCargar: So just for those that might be joining us online,

[0:16:09] Planner McCargar: the Density Bank was established in 2008

[0:16:11] Planner McCargar: and eight as part of the denman island official community plan or ocp so its goal is to manage

[0:16:18] Planner McCargar: residential development by capping total densities while also promoting land conservation

[0:16:24] Planner McCargar: densities can be transferred from protected lands into the bank maintaining a balance between

[0:16:31] Planner McCargar: development and environmental protection so currently on on denman in the ocp the bank is

[0:16:38] Planner McCargar: detailed in Appendix D of the OCP and currently holds seven banked densities. The densities can

[0:16:45] Planner McCargar: be added through conservation efforts, rezonings that reduce subdivision potential, or through

[0:16:52] Planner McCargar: LTC-initiated zoning changes and used for affordable housing only. So where do we go

[0:17:00] Planner McCargar: from here? We're looking at two main options. So option one is the recommended option by staff,

[0:17:08] Planner McCargar: and that's replacing the density bank with a policy-based framework.

[0:17:12] Planner McCargar: So key features of this option would be,

[0:17:17] Planner McCargar: so there'd be no automatic density increases.

[0:17:19] Planner McCargar: All new development would still require public rezoning process

[0:17:25] Planner McCargar: and it would still be based on LTC discretion.

[0:17:29] Planner McCargar: But clear, strengthened policies would guide where growth should go

[0:17:34] Planner McCargar: and where it shouldn't.

[0:17:35] Planner McCargar: And there's the possibility of introducing housing targets into the OCP, you know, just to throw it out there, such as requiring 30% of new homes be affordable or attainable.

[0:17:48] Planner McCargar: That's something that we could kind of workshop.

[0:17:52] Planner McCargar: Enable site-specific analysis through a development approval information bylaw.

[0:17:58] Planner McCargar: So that's really having the ability to require very specific reporting and different criteria, which would be outlined in the DAI when looking at a rezoning or an application for affordable housing.

[0:18:14] Planner McCargar: so making it really clear to applicants and also to the LTC. There would be the possibility to

[0:18:21] Planner McCargar: recognize and allow the use of the seven existing banked densities, so finding a path forward so

[0:18:27] Planner McCargar: that those densities aren't necessarily lost, and would keep the density transfer tool. So that

[0:18:36] Planner McCargar: That still exists separate from the density bank, but looking to keep that.

[0:18:42] Planner McCargar: So that's the recommended option by staff.

[0:18:46] Planner McCargar: Then we provided an alternative option in the attachment there, and that would be to

[0:18:51] Planner McCargar: improve the density bank.

[0:18:52] Planner McCargar: So the goal would be to make it more functional and better aligned with current needs.

[0:18:58] Planner McCargar: Firstly, I think we would recommend moving the density bank into the land use bylaw just

[0:19:04] Planner McCargar: for easier administration.

[0:19:05] Planner McCargar: So it wouldn't require an OCP amendment with rezonings necessarily if they if they fit within the OCP.

[0:19:14] Planner McCargar: Could be looking at the like the affordable housing cap.

[0:19:22] Planner McCargar: So there's a 5% affordable housing cap, but perhaps looking at that and balancing that more with needs based targets,

[0:19:30] Planner McCargar: allowing the LTC to add densities proactively, removing secondary dwellings from that policy 12,

[0:19:39] Planner McCargar: that would mean that secondary dwellings wouldn't necessarily count towards density.

[0:19:48] Planner McCargar: So what we heard from the community is that there's concern about overdevelopment if the bank is replaced with different tools.

[0:19:56] Planner McCargar: but it's important to note that removing the bank doesn't mean that we're opening the door

[0:20:02] Planner McCargar: to rampant development. There's still a lot of really strong tools that we can use through the

[0:20:09] Planner McCargar: OCP and land use bylaw regulations that would regulate that. The community is saying that

[0:20:15] Planner McCargar: there is strong support for affordable housing especially through policies that prioritize it

[0:20:20] Planner McCargar: and we did hear that there is a desire for a more modern workable approach to the density bank

[0:20:28] Planner McCargar: and then we had some questions that we suggested that when we go out into the community and for

[0:20:38] Planner McCargar: some of those conversations that we can ask the community to get a sense of where we're at so I

[0:20:43] Planner McCargar: wanted to spend some time looking at the questions as well just to see if the LTC thinks that we're

[0:20:48] Planner McCargar: We're kind of getting at some of the core issues, but before we get into that, maybe

[0:20:54] Planner McCargar: we can just talk about the ideas staff presented in here with the two options for the density

[0:21:01] Planner McCargar: bank.

[0:21:02] Planner McCargar: All

[0:21:07] Voice 5: right, trustees, any sort of feedback for this?

[0:21:10] Trustee Borthwick: Yeah, I mean, by and large, I think I would favor the recommended option.

[0:21:17] Trustee Borthwick: I think building that into policy makes more sense than a somewhat abstract bank.

[0:21:23] Trustee Borthwick: Um, although I think, you know, the suggestions in the improving the density bank also make

[0:21:29] Trustee Borthwick: a lot of sense, but I, I, I think I favor the sort of, uh, you know, more policy based

[0:21:35] Trustee Borthwick: side of it.

[0:21:36] Trustee Borthwick: Um, you know, um, one of the things, and this is a bit of a side, uh, this is a bit of a

[0:21:46] Trustee Borthwick: slightly it's related, but slightly, um, out there question is just in terms of, and I

[0:21:54] Trustee Borthwick: I know we've sort of talked about the challenges and strengths of housing agreements and the

[0:22:02] Trustee Borthwick: potential possibly at our last LTC meeting talking about the potential to delegate the

[0:22:10] Trustee Borthwick: administrative burden of those things.

[0:22:13] Trustee Borthwick: I've had a couple of conversations, nothing that I can confirm anything, but I've been

[0:22:18] Trustee Borthwick: sort of trying to like sow the seeds or at least like investigate and see if there's

[0:22:23] Trustee Borthwick: somebody who would potentially be willing to administer something like that. And I would be

[0:22:28] Trustee Borthwick: interested in seeing what it would look like to integrate that into the approval process around

[0:22:34] Trustee Borthwick: this, you know, build that into policy in some way. I don't know if that's exactly how that

[0:22:39] Trustee Borthwick: would work. Obviously, I haven't spoken to with you haven't had a chance to speak with you guys

[0:22:42] Trustee Borthwick: about any of this yet. And just as an additional tool, potentially, and specifically with with

[0:22:51] Trustee Borthwick: view to affordable housing, as opposed to just more housing. And again, that's very, very early

[0:22:59] Trustee Borthwick: days on any of that sort of idea, but I wonder if that's something that might be able to be

[0:23:04] Trustee Borthwick: useful in this. I don't know that that... Yeah. But broadly beyond that, I think this is good.

[0:23:10] Trustee Borthwick: And I think being able to retain things like the density transfer policy is definitely going to be

[0:23:16] Trustee Borthwick: a um a good thing okay

[0:23:27] Voice 6: um so if if we remove the the density bank and the denman conservancy um

[0:23:36] Voice 6: is lucky enough to get another piece of property and they choose to zone it um park or or uh

[0:23:43] Voice 6: conservation and it has residential densities on it what where would those with those densities

[0:23:48] Voice 6: just disappear? Because without a bank to put those densities in, what happens to them?

[0:23:56] Planner McCargar: Well, they could utilize, depending on the situation, they could utilize the transfer policy

[0:24:01] Planner McCargar: and that allows transferring of densities to another suitable piece of property. But yeah,

[0:24:11] Planner McCargar: banking them, that ability would disappear.

[0:24:16] Planner Chadwick: And I think that their-

[0:24:19] Voice 6: That ability to put them on another piece of property requires that other piece of property to exist at the same time that the conservancy chooses to rezone that property from residential to conservation.

[0:24:38] Voice 6: Did I confuse you completely?

[0:24:41] Voice 7: Well,

[0:24:43] Trustee Borthwick: surely not necessarily.

[0:24:44] Trustee Borthwick: Surely the conservancy could donate that density when a property could come up that is requesting an extra density.

[0:24:53] Trustee Borthwick: And the Conservancy at that time could make that arrangement.

[0:24:58] Trustee Borthwick: I should let staff speak.

[0:25:01] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, I was just going to point out that.

[0:25:04] Planner Chadwick: So that conversation exists within a very traditional approach to density on all of these islands, which is where density has been basically linked to subdivision potential.

[0:25:25] Planner Chadwick: And we had to introduce this conversation, the Gabriela meeting this morning as well, is that there is an opportunity to reevaluate how you look at density on the island and move from a more traditional approach where the islands were, properties were zoned in a certain way and density was

[0:25:54] Planner Chadwick: and ownership was sort of seen as like lot by lot.

[0:26:03] Planner Chadwick: There's been a lot of conversation,

[0:26:05] Planner Chadwick: particularly on Denman around communal ownership of land.

[0:26:13] Planner Chadwick: And so it's, I mean, for the sake of conversation,

[0:26:19] Planner Chadwick: we need to parcel all these conversations up,

[0:26:22] Planner Chadwick: But they're all part of a whole discussion. And so I'm just sort of introducing that perspective, because if you choose to start to look at density in a different way, and if you choose to look at it from a perspective of not necessarily creating single lots to allow people to have their home and their cottage,

[0:26:49] Planner Chadwick: but rather um you know clustering multiple units on areas where you know they're not they're going

[0:26:56] Planner Chadwick: to have the least amount of impact um then it becomes a different a different kind of a

[0:27:01] Planner Chadwick: conversation so i'm just kind of putting that out there um just to identify that we do need to sort

[0:27:07] Planner Chadwick: of look at this holistically so we you know we could get caught up in this well you know if we're

[0:27:12] Planner Chadwick: going to do density transfer like what does it mean but that might not even necessarily be um

[0:27:20] Planner Chadwick: relevant if you decide to go a different way with this?

[0:27:25] Voice 6: I hear what you're saying.

[0:27:26] Voice 6: It's just that the Dema community has lived with this idea of a density bank

[0:27:30] Voice 6: since 2008, and they're pretty attached to it,

[0:27:34] Voice 6: despite the fact that, in my mind,

[0:27:36] Voice 6: most community members don't really understand how it works.

[0:27:39] Voice 6: I think we saw that at our May meeting where there was a tremendous pushback

[0:27:43] Voice 6: when we said, well, we're just going to get rid of it.

[0:27:45] Voice 6: And as you heard, people thought, oh, my God,

[0:27:48] Voice 6: that's that opens the door to rampant development and yet nothing could be further from the truth

[0:27:53] Voice 6: but so that that to me showed a general misunderstanding of the bank and and i had

[0:28:00] Voice 6: people say for god's sakes don't don't get rid of the bank we need the bank because uh so i thought

[0:28:06] Voice 6: okay we need the bank how how can we so i was thinking how can we reimagine the bank so that

[0:28:12] Voice 6: that it actually makes, it's a better tool for planning.

[0:28:16] Voice 6: And that's why I bring up the scenario of the conservation,

[0:28:20] Voice 6: getting a piece of property.

[0:28:21] Voice 6: They're lucky enough to have one donated

[0:28:23] Voice 6: and they want to take that residential density

[0:28:24] Voice 6: and they want to put it someplace.

[0:28:26] Voice 6: But at the time that they want to do that,

[0:28:28] Voice 6: there's really no nonprofit organization

[0:28:32] Voice 6: that's got an affordable housing project on the go

[0:28:35] Voice 6: and has a piece of land that you could nicely drop

[0:28:38] Voice 6: that density into that piece of land.

[0:28:43] Voice 6: You know, it's interesting that my co-trustee, Borthwick, likes the policy, and I'm happy to try and look at that and try and explain to our community how that's going to work.

[0:28:55] Voice 6: But I know there'll be a certain number of people who say, but that density bank, that works so well.

[0:29:02] Voice 6: And so I kind of like both approaches.

[0:29:04] Voice 6: I like the policy side, but I also don't see the harm in having this cute little density

[0:29:13] Voice 6: bank sit in the land use bylaw and have it populated with the current seven densities

[0:29:18] Voice 6: and any potential densities that the conservation group may pop into there.

[0:29:23] Voice 6: And I would add, we could also populate it with some densities which are specific for

[0:29:29] Voice 6: affordable housing based on the housing needs assessments that we've had done on this island

[0:29:34] Voice 6: over the last 20 years, and the last one being the provincial one

[0:29:36] Voice 6: that was just a few months old.

[0:29:40] Voice 5: The planner, Chad, seems to be excited.

[0:29:43] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, no, I just wanted to point out that these are the conversations

[0:29:48] Planner Chadwick: that need to be had within the community,

[0:29:51] Planner Chadwick: and I think the point of our conversation here is to identify

[0:29:54] Planner Chadwick: whether the questions we're asking are going to tease out

[0:29:58] Planner Chadwick: the discussion, Trustee.

[0:30:00] Planner Chadwick: Graham that you're feeling is is is needed you're you're you're reflecting on some of the conversation

[0:30:04] Planner Chadwick: that's out there so um I think if we focus on the questions that we ask the community um you'll start

[0:30:11] Planner Chadwick: to get we'll start to get the feedback um related to what you're saying and I mean in addition to

[0:30:16] Planner Chadwick: you to to considering what's already been been shared um um yeah I just wanted to point out

[0:30:23] Planner Chadwick: just in terms of process this isn't this discussion isn't about deciding on um on on

[0:30:29] Planner Chadwick: on what you feel the strongest about at this point in time,

[0:30:33] Planner Chadwick: but more how you want to facilitate that discussion with the community

[0:30:39] Planner Chadwick: in the next couple of months.

[0:30:44] Voice 6: We might not be looking at the problem in the same way, perhaps.

[0:30:50] Voice 6: My community feels they've looked at the question

[0:30:55] Voice 6: of how to supply affordable housing on this island for 20 years.

[0:31:00] Voice 6: They're tired of talking.

[0:31:01] Voice 6: They're tired of workshopping.

[0:31:02] Voice 6: they're tired of of studies they want to see some action and uh in the housing advisory planning

[0:31:09] Voice 6: commission notes i'm sure there's a section on the density bank and i'm sure that they they love it

[0:31:13] Voice 6: but um well i

[0:31:17] Voice 6: don't know the

[0:31:18] Planner McCargar: housing advisory stage

[0:31:20] Voice 6: the

[0:31:21] Planner McCargar: housing advisory group uh recommended

[0:31:23] Planner McCargar: removal of the density bank okay

[0:31:31] Voice 6: then i guess we should remove it let's go with your uh

[0:31:33] Voice 6: planner suggestions that we discussed the the

[0:31:36] Voice 6: policy yeah

[0:31:37] Planner Chadwick: it's about again at this point it's

[0:31:39] Planner Chadwick: about having the conversation so um so the decision point will come september at this point

[0:31:46] Planner Chadwick: it's it's you know just continuing this conversation in a more focused way to get at uh at those

[0:31:52] Planner Chadwick: different sides of the conversation that are that have been happening over a period of time so

[0:31:57] Planner Chadwick: yeah i think

[0:32:00] Planner McCargar: we're really trying to tease out from the community when we have these conversations

[0:32:04] Planner McCargar: Like, what are the key concerns and how can we best address that? Because maybe it's not best addressed with a density bank, but maybe it is. But I still don't know if I'm super clear on what the key concerns are.

[0:32:22] Trustee Borthwick: yeah and i i think i i think my understanding is this is the the the intention here is to try to

[0:32:29] Trustee Borthwick: is um how we're framing this conversation in advance of making some some hard decisions or

[0:32:36] Trustee Borthwick: making some specific recommendations and i mean i'm i am with you uh david and that i think people

[0:32:43] Trustee Borthwick: want to just see some movement on this stuff and and really like there's going to be an element of

[0:32:49] Trustee Borthwick: of uh this conversation that people are going to be frustrated that we're even doing it again

[0:32:55] Trustee Borthwick: because it's going to feel similar to the the consultant uh meetings at the market

[0:33:02] Trustee Borthwick: for three years ago um which you know that's going to feel like we're continuing that and

[0:33:08] Trustee Borthwick: still asking for input which is not quite uh you know not quite this is certainly not where i want

[0:33:15] Trustee Borthwick: want to be with this. You know, I'd much rather be just moving forward, but you know, we, we do

[0:33:20] Trustee Borthwick: have, you know, we've made this plan. My, my sense with this is just sort of framing, framing how we

[0:33:29] Trustee Borthwick: might want to move this forward. And there are going to, there's going to be a cohort of people

[0:33:34] Trustee Borthwick: who want to retain the density bank exactly as is and leave, leave it as, you know, change nothing.

[0:33:39] Trustee Borthwick: um talking about what some other potential options are going to be um sort of helps us

[0:33:46] Trustee Borthwick: pave the way i think for some people who maybe recognize its deficiencies um but don't want or

[0:33:53] Trustee Borthwick: you know are anxious about you know dispensing with it entirely i

[0:33:57] Planner Chadwick: think uh one of the challenges

[0:33:59] Planner Chadwick: that's been brought up with keeping it as is is that it's probably been expanded expanded beyond

[0:34:03] Planner Chadwick: beyond um and in fact um um the you know with the changes that were made to the agricultural

[0:34:11] Planner Chadwick: policies and and uh the work that's being done with the rezoning for coho etc um we're always

[0:34:18] Planner Chadwick: already moving beyond what's in that that density bank so there's absolutely a need to

[0:34:23] Planner Chadwick: revisit it um and whatever decisions you make or yeah whatever decisions are made related to the

[0:34:31] Planner Chadwick: The other pieces of this discussion are going to influence what that, you know, what that density bank means.

[0:34:40] Voice 6: Well, if I may, you've made the classic Denman Island, I call it a mistake.

[0:34:49] Voice 6: stake. You're talking about Policy 12 in the OCP under the housing section E, which has a 5%

[0:35:00] Voice 6: increase in densities for either affordable special needs or secondary ADUs. But the density

[0:35:07] Voice 6: bank does not include ADUs. The density bank is affordable housing, period. So the extra ADUs on

[0:35:14] Voice 6: ALR land have nothing to do with the density bank but they have everything to do with the the five

[0:35:19] Voice 6: percent in policy 12 which I agree that policy needs to be we need to look at that because we've

[0:35:28] Voice 6: already gone beyond five percent with the ADUs that are potentially going to pop up on agriculture

[0:35:35] Voice 6: land and the potential well we actually we probably blew through the five percent with the potential

[0:35:41] Voice 6: potential ADUs that would have been on the R2 and F and RE zones with the temporary use permit.

[0:35:49] Voice 6: So that was also a poorly crafted policy. And at the time, everybody felt really good about it

[0:35:55] Voice 6: because it capped potentially the population of Denman Island. But in reality, it was poorly

[0:36:05] Voice 6: crafted. So let's not combine Policy 12 and the density bank in the same statement.

[0:36:12] Voice 6: conversation because they're quite different yeah

[0:36:15] Planner Chadwick: so i think that points to the the fact that the

[0:36:17] Planner Chadwick: the density bank needs to be like if if you're going to retain the density bank then there needs

[0:36:24] Planner Chadwick: to be a clear discussion about what it is um because i think you've just pointed to

[0:36:31] Planner Chadwick: uh a challenge in the understanding of what it is i

[0:36:36] Voice 6: agree i agree um

[0:36:40] Planner Chadwick: so i think like in terms of

[0:36:42] Planner Chadwick: of this conversation, just coming back, I think

[0:36:45] Planner Chadwick: what we'd like to come out of this conversation is

[0:36:50] Planner Chadwick: what are you comfortable in terms of the information

[0:36:54] Planner Chadwick: that we provide to the public and the questions that are being asked

[0:36:58] Planner Chadwick: that we've provided some sort of draft questions.

[0:37:02] Planner Chadwick: Are these questions going to tease out

[0:37:06] Planner Chadwick: that conversation? And I just also wanted to ask,

[0:37:09] Planner Chadwick: um trustee borthwick you you mentioned that you just want to get on with it um what does that

[0:37:15] Planner Chadwick: what does that mean to you um and is there a way that we can um support that in the process we are

[0:37:22] Planner Chadwick: now i

[0:37:24] Trustee Borthwick: mean i think broadly i mean we want to get to a point where we're looking at draft bylaws

[0:37:28] Trustee Borthwick: um you know like that's that's really the that's and i know you guys are are working on that this

[0:37:33] Trustee Borthwick: This is not intended to be an indictment of your work,

[0:37:37] Trustee Borthwick: but I know that like a big part of the frustration

[0:37:42] Trustee Borthwick: that we feel and certainly I hear

[0:37:46] Trustee Borthwick: is they gain this sense of that we're engaging.

[0:37:52] Trustee Borthwick: We're still asking questions about how to do the things

[0:37:55] Trustee Borthwick: and we're actually not getting to the point

[0:37:57] Trustee Borthwick: because that still precedes the process

[0:38:01] Trustee Borthwick: of actually having a draft in front of us

[0:38:03] Trustee Borthwick: that we can then look at and we will inevitably get recommendations and make tweaks to or you'll

[0:38:09] Planner Chadwick: have 40 plus people come out to a meeting and say no we don't want any of this totally

[0:38:14] Trustee Borthwick: no no 100

[0:38:15] Trustee Borthwick: i like and i and i and i absolutely feel you and and the issue there the and what what happened

[0:38:21] Trustee Borthwick: there was that that happened um uh in an isolated manner from the rest of the stuff so like there

[0:38:29] Trustee Borthwick: There were a lot of things we were like, okay, well, here's some things we can get rid of.

[0:38:33] Trustee Borthwick: But we didn't, we weren't including, you know, the guardrails to manage what was going to happen there.

[0:38:43] Trustee Borthwick: And partly this is a question of perspective and perception, but there were no concrete,

[0:38:52] Trustee Borthwick: concrete we didn't have clear answers about what the um uh yeah what what the guardrails were going

[0:39:00] Trustee Borthwick: to look like on on development um if we just remove those things and so i i appreciate that

[0:39:07] Trustee Borthwick: we're going back to a sort of an engagement element here but i think also there's there's

[0:39:12] Trustee Borthwick: lots of engagement built into the the drafting of bylaws and and getting on to that perspective i

[0:39:17] Trustee Borthwick: think regardless we're in a position where we're going to have these conversations we're going to

[0:39:21] Trustee Borthwick: to be having these things i think this is i like a lot of what i'm seeing in your recommendations

[0:39:25] Trustee Borthwick: i appreciate the work that goes into it and i know that like even by the time we sit down with

[0:39:32] Trustee Borthwick: draft bylaws um there's still going to be a lot of road ahead just to get them through the process

[0:39:37] Trustee Borthwick: and there's going to be discussion that as you know i don't want to get to a point where we do

[0:39:41] Trustee Borthwick: a ton of discussion and then and then like i'm not i'm not anticipating that we can have a lot

[0:39:47] Trustee Borthwick: of conversation beforehand and then get drive ballas and just walk them through because there

[0:39:52] Trustee Borthwick: are going to be people who by the nature of this process don't engage until late in the process

[0:39:56] Trustee Borthwick: as we know we like this is not like none of this is controversial um but knowing that there's going

[0:40:03] Trustee Borthwick: to be that engagement and there's going to be necessary tweaks and stuff that was missed or

[0:40:06] Trustee Borthwick: like you know good ideas that come up as in in the process of the baking um it's not just about

[0:40:12] Trustee Borthwick: getting a recipe perfect and then going ahead with that exactly it's about you know get a pretty good

[0:40:18] Trustee Borthwick: recipe in place and then we will we will adjust for taste if that makes sense i'm not mashing my

[0:40:24] Trustee Borthwick: metaphors too much yeah

[0:40:28] Planner Chadwick: no that all makes sense and it makes complete sense because no matter what

[0:40:33] Planner Chadwick: your public process is you're going to get people coming out at that end towards the end of that

[0:40:38] Planner Chadwick: process for

[0:40:39] Trustee Borthwick: sure and that's fine and that's part of accessibility too because for some people

[0:40:43] Trustee Borthwick: people, it is hostile to it, like just, you know, mentally, they find it challenging to interface

[0:40:48] Trustee Borthwick: with with information in this way. Certainly, if I was not a trustee, I would be absolutely not

[0:40:54] Trustee Borthwick: bothering to engage at this point, like I would have engaged, you know, previously in the process,

[0:40:58] Trustee Borthwick: but I would be waiting until a draft bylaw was there. And then I'd be like, Hey, I'm outraged

[0:41:01] Trustee Borthwick: about this one thing. You know, that would be the point where I would engage with it. Because

[0:41:06] Trustee Borthwick: that's where it feels like we've already got the oven on to continue that. Whereas right now,

[0:41:12] Trustee Borthwick: it feels like we're still like well what time should we have dinner and like do we want it to

[0:41:16] Trustee Borthwick: be this or you know do we want tomatoes or bell peppers like we're still going to eat something

[0:41:22] Trustee Borthwick: and we know where it's going i

[0:41:23] Planner Chadwick: think we're i'm just using meal analogy i'm hoping that we're

[0:41:28] Planner Chadwick: more in like like we're eating meat do you want you know do you want chicken or beef sure and

[0:41:35] Trustee Borthwick: And at this point, at this point, I want to like, yeah, the metaphors fall apart a little

[0:41:43] Trustee Borthwick: bit at this point,

[0:41:43] Planner Chadwick: but I think, I think, I think

[0:41:45] Trustee Borthwick: we need to put something on the table

[0:41:46] Trustee Borthwick: and say, do you like this?

[0:41:48] Planner Chadwick: Yeah.

[0:41:48] Planner Chadwick: And that's,

[0:41:48] Trustee Borthwick: that's, that's sort

[0:41:49] Planner Chadwick: of what we're trying to do here.

[0:41:50] Planner Chadwick: So, and I think that

[0:41:51] Trustee Borthwick: comes back

[0:41:52] Planner Chadwick: to my, um, where I was, you know, the, the point here

[0:41:57] Planner Chadwick: is like, are you okay with what we, with the options we put with options we put on the

[0:42:02] Planner Chadwick: table to have a discussion

[0:42:03] Voice 7: about?

[0:42:05] Planner Chadwick: out i mean what i'm hearing is that it it sure would be great if we were a little further than

[0:42:09] Planner Chadwick: we are here and that we're actually

[0:42:11] Planner Chadwick: putting draft bylaws on the table and

[0:42:13] Trustee Borthwick: that's a that's a perennial

[0:42:15] Planner Chadwick: and i think

[0:42:16] Planner Chadwick: so like from a from a staff perspective there's hesitance to put the

[0:42:21] Planner Chadwick: the draft bylaws on on the table until we know that the trustees have some confidence in what's

[0:42:27] Planner Chadwick: moving forward and and i think this process and it's you know it's unfortunate that we've kind

[0:42:33] Planner Chadwick: gone through a different like different iteration of this process right that's unfortunate but we're

[0:42:38] Planner Chadwick: so anyways that's what we're hoping is that um you know we want to what we want to be able to do

[0:42:43] Planner Chadwick: is um is to help support you to have some confidence in what those draft bylaws are going

[0:42:50] Planner Chadwick: to 100 what's

[0:42:51] Planner Chadwick: going to be in those draft bylaws so that the the process doesn't sort of blow up

[0:42:54] Planner Chadwick: in your face for

[0:42:55] Trustee Borthwick: sure and and to be really clear this is this is uh just me trying to say don't

[0:43:01] Trustee Borthwick: get spooked by what has happened let's let's keep moving forward let's do the thing i'm you know

[0:43:08] Trustee Borthwick: here in the meeting because i want to you know i've seen i've read the agenda i've read your

[0:43:12] Trustee Borthwick: recommendations i think this is this is the process we're going forward with i totally

[0:43:15] Trustee Borthwick: respect that that's where we're at do i wish it was all fixed 10 years ago of course but it's not

[0:43:21] Trustee Borthwick: so let's let's get to it

[0:43:24] Planner Chadwick: yes that's

[0:43:27] Trustee Borthwick: all so

[0:43:29] Planner Chadwick: i think i would like circling back to like again

[0:43:32] Planner Chadwick: Again, the purpose of our conversation in the context of the materials that you've been provided with related to Density to Bank.

[0:43:39] Planner Chadwick: Are you comfortable with that being being out there to help facilitate that conversation and the questions that are provided there?

[0:43:47] Planner Chadwick: Are you comfortable with those being the questions that we're going forward?

[0:43:50] Planner Chadwick: So that's in it. So this and I guess this is also another question on process is that our intention is to provide an opportunity for an online opportunity for people to provide their comments as well.

[0:44:05] Planner Chadwick: So those would the questions that we have identified would be the questions that we would be putting on the website.

[0:44:13] Planner Chadwick: So in our conversations on the 26th, we can have those conversations with people and provide more context, what have you.

[0:44:20] Planner Chadwick: We'll put the materials and the questions on, onto the website as well.

[0:44:24] Voice 6: Can we, can we

[0:44:25] Voice 6: see that section on my screen so we can look at these

[0:44:28] Voice 6: questions one more time, please.

[0:44:31] Trustee Borthwick: Yeah. Page 10, I think.

[0:44:34] Voice 6: No,

[0:44:34] Trustee Borthwick: no, I'm just, I'm letting them be helpful.

[0:44:38] Trustee Borthwick: Questions. Right.

[0:44:43] Planner McCargar: And so you'll see one of the questions here,

[0:44:45] Planner McCargar: which I guess we haven't really touched on too much yet is question three.

[0:44:50] Planner McCargar: And that's around removing subdivision potential that we sort of talk about that here with the density bank.

[0:44:58] Planner McCargar: And then I think, again, with the cluster housing proposal, isn't that right, Nerissa?

[0:45:04] Planner McCargar: And this is the idea, you know, like there's a few different ideas around this.

[0:45:11] Planner McCargar: But one idea is that, you know, potentially removing subdivision potential from all lots on Denman.

[0:45:20] Planner McCargar: or some

[0:45:20] Planner Chadwick: of them or some of them that's i mean it's it's it comes back to that um and so this

[0:45:27] Planner Chadwick: was this is where this was an aha moment for staff we had a conversation in the constant

[0:45:31] Planner Chadwick: thinking about denman as well as uh uh gabriela and and thinking about um the fact that you know

[0:45:40] Planner Chadwick: what we're what we're existing right now is is a very traditional approach to uh to planning for

[0:45:47] Planner Chadwick: for the islands, creating lots and creating lots

[0:45:51] Planner Chadwick: that have potential to subdivide

[0:45:54] Planner Chadwick: and create more lots in the future.

[0:45:56] Planner Chadwick: That is traditional planning

[0:45:58] Planner Chadwick: and that's traditional urban planning

[0:46:00] Planner Chadwick: that was slapped onto the islands,

[0:46:01] Planner Chadwick: but just on larger lots, basically.

[0:46:05] Planner Chadwick: And so there is an opportunity to rethink that.

[0:46:09] Planner Chadwick: And the conversations, again, we were having on Denman

[0:46:12] Planner Chadwick: as well as Gabriel are indicating that there's interest

[0:46:14] Planner Chadwick: in doing things a bit differently.

[0:46:17] Planner Chadwick: And what's interesting is when you look at the map,

[0:46:20] Planner Chadwick: and I was going to show you this.

[0:46:24] Planner Chadwick: When you look at the map of the area that we're actually,

[0:46:31] Planner Chadwick: so when we've looked at subdivision potential

[0:46:33] Planner Chadwick: and there's subdivision potential in areas right along the coast,

[0:46:40] Planner Chadwick: coast right along the the coastal areas which are not ideal places for well any any development

[0:46:49] Planner Chadwick: but there's development there because of a variety of of of issues heritage values

[0:46:56] Planner Chadwick: sea level rise erosion you know salt water intrusion all of those sorts of things so

[0:47:03] Planner Chadwick: so way back when when the subdivision potential was identified for lots there were a lot of things

[0:47:10] Planner Chadwick: that weren't being considered um so you know again this is the opportunity and and and as i previously

[0:47:18] Planner Chadwick: had indicated there's a there's a way to to re-envision what what density on the island

[0:47:24] Planner Chadwick: looks like in you know in an environment like all of the other islands that is quite challenged from

[0:47:32] Planner Chadwick: a um a resource perspective so that's where the conversation comes in and i mean this question

[0:47:38] Planner Chadwick: may be a little bit too direct and we may need to uh but you know i mean i think i think it's an

[0:47:44] Planner Chadwick: important piece of the conversation well

[0:47:48] Voice 6: i i like the question i think we should you should just add

[0:47:51] Voice 6: uh do you support removing subdivision potential on lands which for a number of reasons may not be

[0:47:57] Voice 6: suitable for uh increased density and then you you might even put ie heritage values sea level rise

[0:48:05] Voice 6: saltwater intrusion um you know those are those are obvious future and current reasons why we

[0:48:13] Voice 6: shouldn't be putting people on the edge of the ocean

[0:48:16] Voice 7: yeah

[0:48:18] Voice 6: whereas just having it as a blanket

[0:48:21] Voice 6: statement where there's not enough nuance to that question to get a nuanced answer

[0:48:29] Planner Chadwick: there's also like i mean yeah i agree and i guess there's levels of the question too it's like do

[0:48:34] Planner Chadwick: Do you want us to, do you want to just remove it?

[0:48:36] Planner Chadwick: Do you want to like not enable people to create more lots and sell them

[0:48:41] Planner Chadwick: essentially? Right. Do you want nobody

[0:48:43] Voice 6: to profit from

[0:48:44] Planner Chadwick: our Island again?

[0:48:45] Voice 6: Yes.

[0:48:46] Voice 6: You want nobody

[0:48:47] Planner Chadwick: to create like a vacation lots for their family and their,

[0:48:53] Planner Chadwick: you know, I mean, that's, that's what, that's the experience again,

[0:48:55] Planner Chadwick: not just on Denman and all the, all the islands, right? Like, I mean,

[0:48:59] Planner Chadwick: families are mom and dad by the lot.

[0:49:02] Planner Chadwick: they have three kids and each kid wants their own piece and where there's density where there's

[0:49:07] Planner Chadwick: subdivision potential it creates the opportunity that for that one one of them might sell it two

[0:49:12] Planner Chadwick: of them might just use it as a vacation property this is the reality on not just denman but um on

[0:49:17] Planner Chadwick: all the properties so um so yeah i mean it's a way of like addressing those kinds of things

[0:49:26] Planner Chadwick: and it might not

[0:49:27] Planner McCargar: be just on you know land that is not suitable like maybe it is something that

[0:49:33] Planner McCargar: you consider on all land like maybe denman island is just not suitable at all for so it might be a

[0:49:40] Planner McCargar: two-part question yeah

[0:49:42] Planner Chadwick: you know

[0:49:43] Voice 6: um yeah a two-part question so that you can you can you can get the

[0:49:49] Voice 6: feedback from those that are i'm going to use the word enlightened that's perhaps not fair to those

[0:49:54] Voice 6: that aren't enlightened but um i tend to agree i i don't i don't believe in subdivision i do

[0:50:01] Voice 6: believe in sharing but not subdivision um so a two-part makes more sense from my perspective

[0:50:11] Voice 6: and and i guess for question two i'm i'm just putting myself as a member of the deadman

[0:50:17] Voice 6: conservancy how does a tool or what tool or policy would you suggest that will capture the

[0:50:26] Voice 6: residential densities that i hope to be able to put in because i'm convinced we're going to get

[0:50:30] Voice 6: lots of land on them and that's going to go from uh density potential to conservation potential

[0:50:37] Voice 6: so you know that that's the question i i i i know that people will be asking well where where does

[0:50:43] Voice 6: those where do those four densities go that that them and conservancy just recently wanted to put

[0:50:49] Voice 6: into a bank if the bank hadn't been there what would happen to them well

[0:50:54] Planner Chadwick: this is again like

[0:50:55] Planner Chadwick: if you look at density in a different way and you

[0:50:58] Planner Chadwick: if you're not just looking at lots created

[0:51:00] Planner Chadwick: but rather additional units so um if you decide that you want to identify areas where

[0:51:07] Planner Chadwick: there could be some additional clustered units i mean we've talked about we'll talk about that a

[0:51:12] Planner Chadwick: little bit more the clustered housing um uh model where you have a maximum floor area well

[0:51:19] Planner Chadwick: that could be an opportunity to expand the ability to have another unit or two or expand the maximum

[0:51:27] Planner Chadwick: maximum floor area in a particular other place that's the way that i could potentially see it

[0:51:32] Planner Chadwick: working i mean this is all new you know so

[0:51:35] Planner Chadwick: we'd have to explore but i think that that i think that

[0:51:38] Planner Chadwick: could be a reasonable approach um it's a different way of looking at so you know you've got a coho

[0:51:43] Planner Chadwick: um for example um and instead of them having to go through a rezoning

[0:51:48] Planner Chadwick: to add another two units you potentially have that happen as part of a transfer

[0:51:56] Planner McCargar: they would still have to

[0:51:57] Planner McCargar: do a rezoning though like that's the part that doesn't they still

[0:52:00] Planner McCargar: yeah doesn't make sense to me is that density bank or not you're still you

[0:52:05] Voice 1: still have to do

[0:52:06] Voice 1: a

[0:52:06] Planner McCargar: rezoning you still it's still ltc discretion it's still a public process with a public hearing

[0:52:11] Planner McCargar: all these things so density bank or not you're just not making a change yeah you just someone

[0:52:20] Planner Chadwick: one still has to bring forward a proposal for yeah you would just have the language in the ocp

[0:52:27] Planner Chadwick: that would be saying that that was an okay thing to do yeah

[0:52:30] Voice 6: okay well let's let's

[0:52:32] Trustee Borthwick: go with these

[0:52:32] Trustee Borthwick: questions yeah can i make some some suggestions as well

[0:52:37] Planner Chadwick: absolutely yeah that's your

[0:52:41] Planner Chadwick: job i know

[0:52:42] Trustee Borthwick: i know i just yeah uh so i i think um you know and i like i i appreciate where where trustee

[0:52:49] Trustee Borthwick: grams coming with with the with the third question and i think that those that actually

[0:52:53] Trustee Borthwick: what you suggested david in terms of um uh some of that other language could actually be really

[0:53:01] Trustee Borthwick: useful as kind of italicized text in the way that the question wanted to have in in like giving some

[0:53:06] Trustee Borthwick: examples of when those i think that would help contextualize it and narrow it i'm quite happy

[0:53:11] Trustee Borthwick: with it staying quite a broad question but i think to to suggest hey this is you know that

[0:53:17] Trustee Borthwick: these are some reasons why we might want this in in that you know framed as a question framed as

[0:53:23] Trustee Borthwick: some extra context would help build that question out and help it feel less broad would help narrow

[0:53:28] Trustee Borthwick: that a little um and then alternatively or in in conversely uh i was actually going to suggest that

[0:53:37] Trustee Borthwick: the um the the latter half of question two um what are your key concerns um is too broad uh and

[0:53:45] Trustee Borthwick: And actually, what I would do is I would take that italicized text and make that the second

[0:53:49] Trustee Borthwick: half of the question.

[0:53:50] Trustee Borthwick: So if the density bank were removed, what alternative policies do you want in place

[0:53:54] Trustee Borthwick: of the Excel and so forth?

[0:53:55] Trustee Borthwick: I think that actually is a much more directed question and doesn't just is not just a big,

[0:54:01] Trustee Borthwick: you know, your thoughts here box in quite the same way.

[0:54:10] Trustee Borthwick: So I think like, yeah, adding some context to question three and actually using the context

[0:54:15] Trustee Borthwick: context of the context of the subtext of question two to replace the latter half of the question

[0:54:19] Trustee Borthwick: to me frames it a little better um and sort of is a little more it's also a little bit more

[0:54:27] Trustee Borthwick: progressive as opposed to just like if the density bank were removed what are your key concerns is uh

[0:54:34] Trustee Borthwick: is prompting negative feedback specifically right um whereas i think if you if you sort of

[0:54:40] Trustee Borthwick: you know give it you know it's like if it was removed um you know what what else would you

[0:54:46] Trustee Borthwick: you know, what, what are things that, what would make you happy if we got rid of it? Like what

[0:54:50] Trustee Borthwick: would, what would, what would satisfy your concerns, uh, instead of just saying, what are

[0:54:54] Trustee Borthwick: your concerns? If

[0:54:56] Trustee Borthwick: that, if that makes more sense.

[0:54:58] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, absolutely. Marlis, thoughts? You're muted.

[0:55:08] Trustee Borthwick: You're muted.

[0:55:13] Planner McCargar: Sorry, doing too many things at once. Um, yeah, I was just trying to bring up

[0:55:16] Planner McCargar: the document so that I can start making some of these changes, uh, as suggested. And I think that

[0:55:22] Planner McCargar: that that sounds good these are yeah great yeah

[0:55:25] Trustee Borthwick: does that does that make sense to you david

[0:55:28] Trustee Borthwick: yeah both davids you're both you're both important voices here

[0:55:37] Voice 6: got a big square hatch on your block on my yeah

[0:55:42] Planner Chadwick: i think

[0:55:43] Planner Chadwick: maybe because marlis brought up another

[0:55:45] Planner Chadwick: yeah maybe uh stop share i think yeah sorry that's okay um so before we depart from this

[0:55:54] Planner Chadwick: topic, I have another question, and that is, is there additional information that you would

[0:56:01] Planner Chadwick: think we should be providing to provide context for folks to be able to effectively answer the

[0:56:11] Planner Chadwick: questions?

[0:56:13] Voice 6: I would like to see some suggested policies, so that it's not just what policies...

[0:56:20] Voice 6: most people don't understand the word policy and what it means and how it directs and creates

[0:56:29] Voice 6: regulation. So if you had some examples on those policies, that would be a lot easier for people to

[0:56:35] Voice 6: grok. Yeah. And

[0:56:39] Trustee Borthwick: possibly a little bit, and this is speaking a little bit to what sort of Marlis

[0:56:45] Trustee Borthwick: was saying about that that third question in terms of uh um what it means to remove subdivision

[0:56:54] Trustee Borthwick: potential um i i don't think that we need to fear direct language in this i think if we i think if

[0:57:02] Trustee Borthwick: we speak our minds clearly um or you know or lay that out clearly um we'll we'll we'll get

[0:57:10] Trustee Borthwick: clear feedback you know obviously there's there's always it's it can be uncomfortable to sort of

[0:57:16] Trustee Borthwick: of like be that for that kind of direct but i think that would be i think that would would

[0:57:23] Trustee Borthwick: be a good way to to have the conversation i think just speaking directly is going to get us

[0:57:28] Trustee Borthwick: uh clear feedback one

[0:57:34] Voice 7: way

[0:57:36] Trustee Borthwick: or another right yeah

[0:57:38] Trustee Borthwick: probably both ways but it'll be clear at least

[0:57:42] Voice 7: mm-hmm okay

[0:57:52] Planner Chadwick: mollis are you feeling like you've got enough on that one i

[0:57:57] Planner McCargar: think so so i've modified

[0:58:00] Planner McCargar: some of the questions and then i heard to add um maybe some examples of what policy might look like

[0:58:10] Trustee Borthwick: yeah and and maybe something like a um expounding a little bit on what what it would mean to remove

[0:58:18] Trustee Borthwick: subdivision potential because i think there are there is a group of people who would really

[0:58:22] Trustee Borthwick: resonate with the idea of like actually yeah no no one is going to profit from this again and

[0:58:27] Trustee Borthwick: they're you know people are going to feel one way or another about that but i think if we lay that

[0:58:33] Trustee Borthwick: on the table and say no this is what we're talking about um you know then we get an opportunity for

[0:58:37] Trustee Borthwick: people to be like yeah actually yeah i really like that idea or no i'm deeply against it but

[0:58:42] Trustee Borthwick: i think if we just kind of lay that card on the table um it doesn't mean we're going to do it

[0:58:47] Trustee Borthwick: but it it does open that conversation up directly okay but i'd be interested i don't know if the

[0:58:59] Trustee Borthwick: davids have thoughts on that i know it's a bit of a a bold potential but

[0:59:05] Voice 6: um i think in this day and

[0:59:09] Voice 6: age the to decommodify land is a brilliant move yeah it's not going to be one that's that's

[0:59:17] Voice 6: popular with those that have subdivision potential um and it will be very popular for those who uh

[0:59:25] Voice 6: don't have subdivision potential that that's probably a pretty clear synopsis of what's

[0:59:32] Voice 6: going to happen yeah but you know what well that's

[0:59:37] Trustee Borthwick: yeah that's kind of and i think we should

[0:59:39] Trustee Borthwick: just lay that out and say this is what we're talking about when we ask this

[0:59:42] Voice 6: absolutely you

[0:59:43] Trustee Borthwick: know yeah

[0:59:43] Voice 6: yep

[0:59:44] Trustee Borthwick: cool well

[0:59:47] Voice 5: the thing is is that we're not reaching conclusions we're putting

[0:59:51] Voice 5: things on the table to sort of engage the conversation so you know is that to some that

[0:59:56] Voice 5: might seem radical. To some, it might seem to be common sense.

[1:00:00] Voice 5: But, you know, like, until it's on the table, and until you get the feedback, you don't know. So I think I would be very reluctant to say, don't put it on on the table. Because, you know, we, it's a really good discussion.

[1:00:16] Voice 5: um is the subdivision is certainly controversial on some islands um but the the other thing is you

[1:00:25] Voice 5: know not a lot of people want to subdivide anymore because you know subdividing is is not a profitable

[1:00:30] Voice 5: enterprise you know and because you know construction costs are so high the the the

[1:00:37] Voice 5: time frame it takes to get things subdivided it's not the wild west anymore and you know

[1:00:45] Voice 5: So I would be interested of just seeing what the people of Denman think about this, because it may be one of these broad, bold things, you know, other islands need to look at, because it does send a message.

[1:01:00] Voice 5: and I'm pretty supportive of putting it out there

[1:01:04] Voice 5: just to get the feedback so we can understand

[1:01:06] Voice 5: but not unlike the Density Bank

[1:01:08] Voice 5: is that hopefully people understand

[1:01:10] Voice 5: we're literally putting these things out there

[1:01:13] Voice 5: for discussion.

[1:01:14] Voice 5: It's not like this is the agenda

[1:01:16] Voice 5: and this is what we want you to approve.

[1:01:18] Voice 5: It's we just need to put it out there

[1:01:20] Voice 5: so we know what's going on.

[1:01:21] Voice 5: I think it's great.

[1:01:30] Planner McCargar: All right.

[1:01:31] Planner McCargar: Okay, are

[1:01:32] Trustee Borthwick: we ready to move on to the

[1:01:33] Planner McCargar: next topic?

[1:01:35] Planner McCargar: Yep.

[1:01:35] Planner McCargar: um here let me just find my screen so that one is um looking at lot coverage and floor area

[1:01:48] Planner McCargar: so just for those that are joining us online um lot coverage refers to the percentage of the land

[1:01:56] Planner McCargar: that's physically covered by buildings it only includes the footprint of buildings so the space

[1:02:01] Planner McCargar: they take up on the ground and it doesn't account for multiple stories whereas floor area is the

[1:02:07] Planner McCargar: a total usable interior space inside a building including all floors and stories and floor area

[1:02:13] Planner McCargar: is a more direct measure of the actual size or scale of the house. So why would these controls

[1:02:19] Planner McCargar: matter? Together lot coverage and floor area can help manage how big buildings can be both on the

[1:02:25] Planner McCargar: land and in volume and this helps protect Denman's natural character, preserve open space and

[1:02:32] Planner McCargar: ecological health, discourage oversized homes and support more modest and attainable housing.

[1:02:38] Planner McCargar: The current policy on Denman right now, the only lot coverage control is a 25% maximum for residential lots, and there's currently no floor area limits in place.

[1:02:51] Planner McCargar: So we're recommending a combined approach, which would help to manage building size more effectively.

[1:02:57] Planner McCargar: So that would be lot coverage limit.

[1:02:59] Planner McCargar: limit. The recommendation is to reduce the maximum lot coverage to better protect open space

[1:03:05] Planner McCargar: and looking at lot coverage based on lot size. And then floor area limits. So just doing a fixed

[1:03:16] Planner McCargar: maximum floor area limit. So proposing a maximum floor area of 250 square meters or about

[1:03:24] Planner McCargar: 2,690 square feet for principal dwellings. So to put that into context a 250 meter square home

[1:03:33] Planner McCargar: on a half acre lot would use around six percent lot coverage so that would be well within the

[1:03:38] Planner McCargar: proposed limits. There would still be room for variances which would be considered case by case

[1:03:45] Planner McCargar: by the local trust committee. So you could also consider instead of one fixed floor area you could

[1:03:52] Planner McCargar: vary the maximum floor area by zoning so different floor area for an r1 for an r2 type of thing or by

[1:04:00] Planner McCargar: property size so you could have you know zero to five acre property is two thousand square foot

[1:04:05] Planner McCargar: floor area five to ten acres is four thousand square foot floor area um that kind of thing

[1:04:11] Planner McCargar: so these options um are all kind of open for discussion uh but staff are recommending

[1:04:18] Planner McCargar: combining lot coverage and floor area and just moving forward with a fixed limited floor area

[1:04:25] Planner McCargar: approach for kind of clarity and fairness so at this point we have had pretty limited input on

[1:04:32] Planner McCargar: the topic from the community and so we've yeah again developed some questions to to go out with

[1:04:38] Planner McCargar: to ask the community but we haven't had a lot of opportunity to hear what the community has to say

[1:04:43] Planner McCargar: about this but I'm curious to hear what the LTC what your thoughts are yeah

[1:04:51] Trustee Borthwick: I mean I this is

[1:04:52] Trustee Borthwick: something we've been talking about since early in the term I've certainly spoken to people about it

[1:04:57] Trustee Borthwick: on island uh fairly extensively at various points and times and yeah I mean I think

[1:05:03] Trustee Borthwick: the suggestions in here I think I was maybe thrown off a little bit by the table uh under

[1:05:11] Trustee Borthwick: lock coverage restriction uh and it's i partly i was i've been just working a lot so i wound up

[1:05:20] Trustee Borthwick: reading this quite late at night my brain was bouncing off it pretty hard but i mean i feel

[1:05:24] Trustee Borthwick: like it was things kind of cleared up for me a little bit in terms of just the the straight

[1:05:28] Trustee Borthwick: recommendations but um was

[1:05:31] Planner McCargar: it this table that yeah

[1:05:32] Trustee Borthwick: yeah and i don't just don't know i just

[1:05:35] Trustee Borthwick: failed to penetrate and like when i first read it and then i keep going back to it and still not

[1:05:40] Trustee Borthwick: not quite comprehensive but I think again just fatigue I

[1:05:44] Planner McCargar: can maybe so the floor area was just

[1:05:47] Planner McCargar: a fixed floor area across the island basically yeah and um the lot coverage we're proposing

[1:05:54] Planner McCargar: uh different lot coverage based on lot size so if you're less than 1.5 acres you have a 15%

[1:06:02] Planner McCargar: lot coverage if you're 1.5 to 3 acres you have 10% yeah

[1:06:07] Trustee Borthwick: that so that part I feel

[1:06:08] Trustee Borthwick: like I was

[1:06:09] Trustee Borthwick: was understanding i guess what i was confused about was uh what was how what what where the

[1:06:14] Trustee Borthwick: next two columns which is the

[1:06:16] Trustee Borthwick: max footprint like i the first two make sense to me and then like

[1:06:20] Trustee Borthwick: how max footprint and approximate house size were interrelated under this model was confusing me

[1:06:28] Trustee Borthwick: so

[1:06:30] Planner McCargar: i was just trying to get at the point that so if you have a 15 percent lot coverage

[1:06:35] Planner McCargar: on a 1.5 acre that and you didn't have a floor area maximum that could

[1:06:41] Planner McCargar: mean that you could have

[1:06:43] Planner McCargar: a 19 000 square foot home

[1:06:45] Trustee Borthwick: sure and so it's

[1:06:48] Planner McCargar: two stories yeah

[1:06:49] Trustee Borthwick: sure totally so this is um

[1:06:54] Trustee Borthwick: uh okay okay okay so

[1:06:56] Planner McCargar: that's not what we're proposing is where the doubling is coming

[1:06:58] Trustee Borthwick: from that was what was like but this is not the same thing at all those are yeah okay um

[1:07:03] Trustee Borthwick: this is an example of what could potentially exist

[1:07:08] Trustee Borthwick: if it's just by percentage as opposed to a fixed maximum.

[1:07:13] Trustee Borthwick: Okay.

[1:07:14] Trustee Borthwick: Yeah.

[1:07:15] Trustee Borthwick: All right, I'm there.

[1:07:22] Voice 6: So my only concern with the residential limit

[1:07:28] Voice 6: is that will make it harder for us to do the kind of thing

[1:07:33] Voice 6: that Main Island is doing on particular areas

[1:07:35] Voice 6: where they have a number of dwellings but they their total square footage falls within the

[1:07:42] Voice 6: maximum allowable total so if you if you have the 2700 square feet i'm sorry to use square feet but

[1:07:48] Voice 6: i'm just more comfortable in square feet than square meters um you know you you you if you if

[1:07:55] Voice 6: it was 4000 square feet you could have say three or four little buildings all of which would be

[1:08:01] Voice 6: be livable, whereas if you have 2,700 as your total,

[1:08:05] Voice 6: you really are limited to some really tiny little houses

[1:08:09] Voice 6: if you go with the combined total.

[1:08:12] Voice 6: So that was my only concern, is if we, across the board,

[1:08:16] Voice 6: limit it to 2,700 feet, what happens to our idea

[1:08:20] Voice 6: that on some lots, we should be able to take that amount

[1:08:25] Voice 6: of residential square footage and use it more creatively?

[1:08:31] Voice 5: Yeah,

[1:08:32] Planner Chadwick: so there's two things. One is

[1:08:35] Planner Chadwick: size can be varied through a development variance

[1:08:38] Planner Chadwick: application. So that would provide an opportunity for the trustees at the time

[1:08:42] Planner Chadwick: to decide whether they want to provide that variance. And so

[1:08:46] Planner Chadwick: a case where you're trying to house a number of different people would be different than

[1:08:50] Planner Chadwick: providing a variance for a giant house for two people.

[1:08:55] Planner Chadwick: So there's that option. There's that flexibility within the

[1:08:58] Planner Chadwick: within the legislation um the other um thing here is that you can also be looking and this

[1:09:05] Planner Chadwick: sort of goes to the cluster housing question um um within that you could be identifying areas on

[1:09:14] Planner Chadwick: the uh on the island where you feel more comfortable with density and that's where

[1:09:19] Planner Chadwick: those those areas can have a different type of zoning that would allow up to more units within

[1:09:26] Planner Chadwick: in a maximum floor area attached or detached yeah

[1:09:32] Planner McCargar: so it would be a different zone so these might be

[1:09:34] Planner McCargar: the the maximums for like the r1 r2 zones and the cluster housing zone would be something separate

[1:09:44] Voice 6: right so we're going to build that into the questions so that that's something that we can

[1:09:48] Voice 6: discuss with our community the r2 tends to be the the 10 acre lot so in my mind 10 acres is

[1:09:56] Voice 6: There's plenty enough land to handle the number of little houses with a maximum floor area to restrict that growth.

[1:10:11] Planner Chadwick: So do you want to focus on the questions?

[1:10:15] Voice 6: Yeah, well, the first one is I agree.

[1:10:17] Voice 6: I mean, that was my suggestion a long time ago that our lot coverage percentages were way too high.

[1:10:22] Voice 6: And on an island that's supposed to be protecting the natural environment,

[1:10:26] Voice 6: well, the natural environment doesn't have much of a chance if you cover your lot with 25%

[1:10:31] Voice 6: non-impervious surfaces. So I like number one. I think that's a good question.

[1:10:38] Voice 6: And I just with number two, I guess what I would like to see is a maximum floor area across the

[1:10:51] Voice 6: board, or should the maximum floor area be dependent on the size of the lot? Just to

[1:10:57] Voice 6: Just to further that question, give that question some perspectives.

[1:11:05] Trustee Borthwick: Yeah, getting into the specific number, I think the more interesting question is, as

[1:11:11] Trustee Borthwick: you say, David, should we just have a blanket size, or should it be variable relative to

[1:11:18] Trustee Borthwick: lot size?

[1:11:21] Trustee Borthwick: And I guess I think this does potentially fold into this cluster housing question, but

[1:11:28] Trustee Borthwick: But should there be a set size for all lots and then a new zoning created that has a larger lot coverage potential but is designed for dispersed coverage?

[1:11:47] Trustee Borthwick: I don't know if that makes sense.

[1:11:48] Planner Chadwick: Or a separate unit,

[1:11:49] Planner Chadwick: like four units, I think.

[1:11:52] Voice 6: I wouldn't go with a different zone.

[1:11:53] Voice 6: I would suggest that the regulations are just different depending on the size of the lot.

[1:12:00] Voice 6: that's all i was thinking sure yeah

[1:12:05] Planner Chadwick: so as a question that would be yeah that would be a

[1:12:08] Planner Chadwick: question uh to ask yeah as opposed to just like

[1:12:12] Voice 7: every house yeah yeah

[1:12:14] Voice 7: yeah yeah as a

[1:12:20] Planner Chadwick: additional question to number two

[1:12:22] Voice 7: yeah

[1:12:24] Planner Chadwick: and then maybe suggested some suggestions on size yeah

[1:12:31] Voice 6: hasn't main island done the work in those and making those suggestions isn't that that table

[1:12:38] Voice 6: available to demo knowledge to have a look at yeah

[1:12:40] Planner Chadwick: so it's essentially in here it's in the

[1:12:43] Planner Chadwick: clustered housing discussion um yeah

[1:12:45] Planner Chadwick: that's that so that's the maximum combined floor area for

[1:12:48] Planner Chadwick: um multiple units so what's in the the table uh related to that is are what what um um

[1:13:00] Planner Chadwick: what main has excluding but main only goes up to five hectares right now so um uh

[1:13:06] Planner Chadwick: though there's just the suggestion for larger lots is new.

[1:13:19] Planner Chadwick: Maine doesn't have the over five hectare options.

[1:13:23] Voice 6: I'm thinking most of our really big lots are in the ALR anyway.

[1:13:28] Planner Chadwick: So this is where

[1:13:30] Planner Chadwick: I can share this map with you

[1:13:35] Planner Chadwick: because i think this is very a useful tool um so this map all of the um the gray so the gray area

[1:13:45] Planner Chadwick: inside here is alr and park and um protected areas protected two places that are protected

[1:13:54] Planner Chadwick: with covenant right and then around the coast this is a 200 meter um yeah uh setback line and

[1:14:03] Planner Chadwick: And so this map doesn't include arc sites or arc potential

[1:14:08] Planner Chadwick: because we don't like to share that publicly,

[1:14:11] Planner Chadwick: but a number of arc sites fall along the coast.

[1:14:15] Planner Chadwick: And then there's also some that fall internally,

[1:14:19] Planner Chadwick: which would also black out potentially some other units.

[1:14:23] Planner Chadwick: And if you think about,

[1:14:25] Planner Chadwick: so this is not looking at any other, nothing else

[1:14:29] Planner Chadwick: except for uh for agricultural land protected areas parks and uh a 200 meter um uh setback

[1:14:38] Planner Chadwick: that's it so you

[1:14:39] Planner Chadwick: can see already the potential is minimized and then if you on top of that layer um

[1:14:45] Planner Chadwick: the conservancy's uh data which you could imagine um probably you know it skirts along where the

[1:14:52] Planner Chadwick: riparian areas is probably the richer um you know areas of uh ecological significance

[1:14:58] Planner Chadwick: significance um then you're looking at you know you start to reduce the the potential

[1:15:06] Planner Chadwick: of lots that are suitable for additional uh density the more factors you you add

[1:15:13] Planner Chadwick: it's

[1:15:14] Voice 6: true this

[1:15:16] Planner Chadwick: is very revealing like the conversation is

[1:15:18] Voice 6: i love i love this map i think

[1:15:20] Voice 6: if anything can can reduce the threat that people seem to feel that we're about to unleash on them

[1:15:27] Voice 6: and with rampant growth this this map should really make them feel oh oh we're in good shape

[1:15:34] Voice 6: as far as density is it yeah we're okay we're not we're not going to turn into 20 000 we're

[1:15:39] Voice 6: not going to be salt spring yeah

[1:15:41] Planner Chadwick: and so for as in terms of communication tools like we can have this

[1:15:45] Planner Chadwick: like you know there's a there's um we can have this we can have a maps that show the re the

[1:15:50] Planner Chadwick: sense that the like most important recharge areas on the the island and so when you kind of and then

[1:15:56] Planner Chadwick: then you know we can we're talking to the conservancy about what uh what kind of data

[1:16:00] Planner Chadwick: they're they're comfortable with sharing so there's the opportunity to have the conversation

[1:16:04] Planner Chadwick: and it just kind of gets narrow more narrow and more narrow narrower the more more factors you

[1:16:09] Planner Chadwick: you look in and that's just

[1:16:11] Planner Chadwick: using using data that we have available to us so

[1:16:15] Voice 7: yeah

[1:16:16] Voice 5: i would just suggest that um to sort of to add to the visual interpretation that you

[1:16:22] Voice 5: that puts some more dramatic colors to it.

[1:16:26] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, I did.

[1:16:26] Planner Chadwick: So I did that, but those were the maps

[1:16:29] Planner Chadwick: that have the arc potential on them.

[1:16:32] Planner Chadwick: But yeah, I mean, I can definitely get,

[1:16:34] Planner Chadwick: we can get the colors changed.

[1:16:37] Planner Chadwick: But there is subdivision potential

[1:16:42] Planner Chadwick: in some of these coastal properties.

[1:16:47] Planner Chadwick: And those would be, those are areas

[1:16:49] Planner Chadwick: that you really don't want to be putting more people

[1:16:52] Planner Chadwick: people were disturbing particularly disturbing because like i said um um when you look at the

[1:16:59] Planner Chadwick: arc maps the art potential maps you know a lot of the already recorded sites are along the coast

[1:17:04] Planner Chadwick: yeah

[1:17:05] Voice 6: so

[1:17:06] Planner Chadwick: yeah so anyways that just to put it into perspective a bit there um just

[1:17:17] Voice 5: one question from

[1:17:19] Voice 5: from a planner perspective um um a variance um for a house size um from an administrative point

[1:17:30] Voice 5: of view is that a fairly simple thing like it is like a one or two page staff report or is it

[1:17:37] Voice 5: it's a very extensive thing uh because like where i'm going is that if we can reduce the fees for

[1:17:44] Voice 5: that type of variance i think people would be a lot more comfortable with it um because like

[1:17:51] Voice 5: going through variances can be a very daunting and expensive proposition with islands trust

[1:17:57] Voice 5: um but on that specific criteria um or it in my mind it's a little bit more of a judgment call

[1:18:05] Voice 5: if it's if it's somewhat simpler to administrate and we can bring the the cost of that variance

[1:18:12] Voice 5: down and it's clear to people it might be easier and more acceptable for people to work on a lower

[1:18:21] Voice 5: square footage number knowing that they can put in for a variance for something larger

[1:18:24] Voice 5: that would not be too much of a burden i

[1:18:28] Planner McCargar: don't know that it's it would be any less sort of

[1:18:32] Planner McCargar: administrative work like it still would have the same requirements as any other variance and i think

[1:18:38] Planner McCargar: it could really depend on the lot and yeah I think there would still be a lot

[1:18:46] Planner McCargar: of factors that we would have to consider whether or not would grant that

[1:18:49] Planner McCargar: so there could still be you know environmental reporting that would be

[1:18:52] Planner McCargar: required like it would be they might need to prove that they are in an area

[1:18:57] Planner McCargar: that is suitable for a larger home or multiple people living.

[1:19:02] Planner McCargar: I'll

[1:19:08] Voice 5: just put that out there. To me, it might be an easier sell because I know that some people really embrace the concept of maximum house size, and some people really are offended by it.

[1:19:25] Voice 5: um so it's it's one of those it's people either blow hot or cold on it and and so if it's something

[1:19:34] Voice 5: the ltc wants to consider i think any way that we can reduce barriers makes it easier to sort of

[1:19:42] Voice 5: make it more sort of palatable to those who who might not think it's a good idea

[1:19:49] Trustee Borthwick: i

[1:19:49] Voice 5: mean just yeah

[1:19:50] Trustee Borthwick: to me to me i think that's you know we asked the question uh and that's that's

[1:19:56] Trustee Borthwick: where we'll get that feedback of whether people are hot or cold on it um you know it is the the

[1:20:02] Trustee Borthwick: burden still lies on us to make the determination as to what we think is correct um because again

[1:20:07] Trustee Borthwick: it's that that subtle distinction between being uh you know a town counselor and a trustee is that

[1:20:15] Trustee Borthwick: you know we are representing the interests of the trust um and and you know defending our our ocp and

[1:20:21] Trustee Borthwick: an lub in that way um so i i mean i think we should ask the question um i'm not too worried

[1:20:28] Trustee Borthwick: about trying to find ways to mitigate the the the extent of that because again i mean what is

[1:20:35] Trustee Borthwick: the average what is the i mean variances i know vary somewhat but a variance application

[1:20:42] Trustee Borthwick: that can one of the planners maybe help remind me of what the general dollar amount goes with

[1:20:49] Planner Chadwick: the cost is

[1:20:50] Trustee Borthwick: yeah off

[1:20:51] Planner Chadwick: the top of my head i don't know but we can check the the bylaw yeah it's i

[1:20:55] Trustee Borthwick: mean we don't have to do this right now i'm just curious i guess if it was if it was off somebody's

[1:21:00] Trustee Borthwick: head but do

[1:21:01] Planner Chadwick: you have it off your head marla's i yes let's see yeah

[1:21:05] Planner McCargar: that's clear two thousand

[1:21:08] Planner McCargar: dollars yeah

[1:21:11] Trustee Borthwick: i yeah i i don't necessarily feel like we need to make a huge reduction in cost

[1:21:20] Trustee Borthwick: there. $2,000 obviously is not cheap, but I also think if you're talking about the right to build

[1:21:29] Trustee Borthwick: a larger house is what you'd be arguing for in that. I don't know. I don't think we necessarily

[1:21:37] Trustee Borthwick: need to make that part of the conversation. I don't think that's something we should necessarily

[1:21:43] Trustee Borthwick: negotiate on at this point. I think it's more important to talk about the broader question

[1:21:47] Trustee Borthwick: um and you know what feedback we get from that will tell us whether we're way off base or not

[1:21:52] Trustee Borthwick: um and we'll act accordingly

[1:21:56] Planner Chadwick: yeah for the time for the time being you're happy to have the question

[1:22:03] Planner Chadwick: out there for discussion yeah

[1:22:06] Voice 7: yeah

[1:22:08] Planner Chadwick: okay um any further discussion on that topic um anything

[1:22:14] Planner Chadwick: and again same question as as before um any additional information that you think would be

[1:22:19] Planner Chadwick: be helpful um in the to help you know facilitate and focus the discussion um

[1:22:27] Trustee Borthwick: well i know marlis

[1:22:28] Trustee Borthwick: you were uh sort of editing questions on the fly a little bit or you've got a work

[1:22:33] Trustee Borthwick: sheet where you're doing that would it be possible to see what you're sort of working with now

[1:22:37] Planner McCargar: sure for the lot coverage

[1:22:39] Trustee Borthwick: one yeah i'm

[1:22:44] Planner Chadwick: also going to suggest that what we can do is we can send

[1:22:46] Planner Chadwick: all of the questions to you after the meeting um and then any tweaks are

[1:22:50] Planner Chadwick: um such that you'd like to make yeah

[1:22:53] Trustee Borthwick: no this is more just sort of keeping track of the changes

[1:22:56] Trustee Borthwick: we've discussed yeah um because my feeling was that for question two i just i don't necessarily

[1:23:05] Trustee Borthwick: um i don't necessarily know that we need to i was going to suggest that maybe like i would broaden

[1:23:13] Trustee Borthwick: question two and take out the specific size um maybe include that as an example be like

[1:23:19] Trustee Borthwick: Like, you know, almost

[1:23:22] Voice 1: just put that in

[1:23:23] Trustee Borthwick: parentheses and say, is a maximum floor area appropriate?

[1:23:26] Trustee Borthwick: For example, 250 square meters, because then it's more it's more broadly asking the question.

[1:23:34] Trustee Borthwick: And we're not again, I don't think it's necessary.

[1:23:37] Trustee Borthwick: I think that deciding on the specific size is is work for for trustees and staff.

[1:23:43] Trustee Borthwick: half um not i don't want to get into sort of like uh haggling over price uh you know in a public

[1:23:51] Trustee Borthwick: forum i don't think that's an appropriate i think i think that's where we do the work

[1:23:55] Planner McCargar: yeah i think

[1:23:57] Planner McCargar: that's a good point i just i think i did want to get a sense of are people thinking range yeah

[1:24:03] Planner McCargar: 2,500 square feet or are they thinking 5,000 square feet

[1:24:06] Trustee Borthwick: totally no 100 and that's why i

[1:24:09] Trustee Borthwick: I think just having it as an example might be, you know, frames the question in a more

[1:24:13] Trustee Borthwick: useful way and then we'll make the determination as to what it is.

[1:24:17] Trustee Borthwick: Someone might be able to say, you know, someone would answer that question and say, yes, I

[1:24:21] Trustee Borthwick: think there is a maximum thing, but I think it should be 300 square meters.

[1:24:24] Trustee Borthwick: And we'll be like, cool, fine.

[1:24:25] Trustee Borthwick: We'll take that information and we'll do with it what we please.

[1:24:28] Trustee Borthwick: But we're not actually saying, is this amount appropriate?

[1:24:32] Trustee Borthwick: Because then there'll be some people who disagree with it, but maybe just think it

[1:24:34] Trustee Borthwick: should be 400 who will say no i don't think that's appropriate because i want it to be slightly more

[1:24:40] Trustee Borthwick: or there'll be some people who might be like no i think it should only be 100 square meters yeah

[1:24:44] Trustee Borthwick: maybe

[1:24:44] Planner Chadwick: we want the read on whether they think it yeah we don't is appropriate period and then like

[1:24:49] Planner Chadwick: if they want to give us numbers great

[1:24:50] Trustee Borthwick: totally extra granular extra granularity is lovely but

[1:24:54] Trustee Borthwick: not the key thrust right

[1:24:57] Planner Chadwick: okay

[1:25:03] Planner McCargar: so does that kind of get at what you're thinking of yeah

[1:25:06] Trustee Borthwick: yeah and

[1:25:07] Trustee Borthwick: the other ones

[1:25:08] Planner McCargar: looked okay yeah i

[1:25:09] Trustee Borthwick: think so david's yep

[1:25:12] Voice 6: good suggestion thank you sam

[1:25:14] Voice 6: um

[1:25:18] Trustee Borthwick: before staff launch into doing this uh i just i i don't know if this is an acronym that you had

[1:25:25] Trustee Borthwick: previously uh but i wanted to just say that i'm pretty sure and i think even just by expressions

[1:25:31] Trustee Borthwick: i can tell who but i'm sure someone is very pleased with themselves for this acronym

[1:25:38] acronym

[1:25:41] Planner Chadwick: I'm thinking t-shirts buttons um yes I take it you like the acronym I

[1:25:52] Trustee Borthwick: mean I love me a

[1:25:53] Trustee Borthwick: good acronym they're they're they're almost they're almost on the same tier as a good pun

[1:26:00] Trustee Borthwick: yes

[1:26:01] Planner Chadwick: yes well and that's just really being playful that's that's we don't need to

[1:26:08] Planner Chadwick: thing into it but but on the um um uh yeah it uh it yeah we can use it we can use not use it

[1:26:19] Planner Chadwick: it's all good um but yeah i mean i'm you know i'm excited about the t-shirts

[1:26:27] Planner Chadwick: so um i guess we're i take it we're ready to get into the conversation about the clustered housing

[1:26:31] Planner Chadwick: or the cluster housing um so i will remind you actually we do have draft language that you have

[1:26:40] Planner Chadwick: already um approved uh related to this concept um so i can provide that um in like for the

[1:26:48] Planner Chadwick: discussion um and the question um really is the extent to which you want to be um considering this

[1:26:59] Planner Chadwick: So the other thing that I also think would be useful to this conversation in terms of background is that is pointing out that currently, so currently in R2, up to five units are allowed per acre on lots that are five hectares plus, which means that you could have a development pattern.

[1:27:29] Planner Chadwick: like you could you could on those on those lots you could have um houses that are um you know

[1:27:37] Planner Chadwick: driveways that go off into the trees and separate septics and and separate um um cisterns i'm gonna

[1:27:47] Planner Chadwick: do a little bit of uh i haven't counted how many that applies to but there's there's a few this is

[1:27:52] Planner Chadwick: a handful of them but there's an opportunity you

[1:27:55] Voice 7: mean oh yeah

[1:27:57] Planner Chadwick: i meant r1 did i say r2 you did i

[1:27:59] Planner Chadwick: meant r1 you know what's so funny is i'm like looking at this piece of paper and it says r1

[1:28:03] Planner Chadwick: went on it and i was saying in my head i was like don't say r2 it's r1 thank you trustee graham

[1:28:11] Planner Chadwick: oh my goodness um um i i so anyway um so yeah so there's a like a an unsustainable potential there

[1:28:25] Planner Chadwick: right unsustainable development potential on some of those lots so this is an opportunity to to look

[1:28:31] Planner Chadwick: look at um uh multiple multiple units in a in a in a more um i don't know i don't i think the

[1:28:38] Planner Chadwick: word sustainable is is overused so like in a way that is less impactful um um and some language

[1:28:46] Planner Chadwick: has already been provided to you so um essentially the the um the you know there's options

[1:28:55] Planner Chadwick: i've identified two like two of the options that both of them could actually be um

[1:29:01] Planner Chadwick: considered as part of this project and that is the ability to rezone to this clustered model.

[1:29:10] Planner Chadwick: We could be removing the potential for this sort of dispersed five units and apply

[1:29:22] Planner Chadwick: like the clustered zoning to that as opposed to just allowing the units to be built wherever on

[1:29:30] Planner Chadwick: a large property um so that's an opportunity um um and there's a opportunity there to to really

[1:29:40] Planner Chadwick: clearly identify what um what a so this is in the context of rezoning what reason a rezoning would

[1:29:48] Planner Chadwick: would um would have to look at and and so you've been provided with that draft language the other

[1:29:53] Planner Chadwick: opportunity here is to actually pre-zone and that's what uh that's what main island has done

[1:30:00] Planner Chadwick: And so in that case, that is looking at that map and looking at those other considerations, those other layers that you may want to think about.

[1:30:11] Planner Chadwick: And what happens when you do that is that there are lots that look a little more suitable.

[1:30:23] Planner Chadwick: So that would be about identifying what criteria is important to you and applying this type of zoning to those lots as part of this project.

[1:30:34] Planner Chadwick: And like I said, that's what Maine has done. Maine's done that. That's their flexible housing.

[1:30:43] Planner Chadwick: So those are the two options that could be considered as part of this project.

[1:30:49] Planner Chadwick: I've provided some, you know, indication of what suitable areas would be there, and then I've provided an example, and like we've discussed previously, those first three lines in that table are directly from Maine, in terms of the combined floor area.

[1:31:15] Planner Chadwick: and then I've added the other two.

[1:31:19] Planner Chadwick: So expanded for lots that are larger

[1:31:24] Planner Chadwick: and then introduced this idea of on the very large lots

[1:31:32] Planner Chadwick: allowing additional units if a portion is protected by covenant.

[1:31:39] Planner Chadwick: And that could be, I mean, that could apply to the smaller ones too,

[1:31:42] Planner Chadwick: depending, right?

[1:31:43] Planner Chadwick: And maybe that's a question I haven't integrated that in here,

[1:31:47] Planner Chadwick: but that could also be a question out to the public um yeah so the questions that i've

[1:31:54] Planner Chadwick: identified there you can see them marlis you're kind of driving this can you um put them up

[1:32:02] Planner Chadwick: because i don't really have it open

[1:32:03] Voice 6: i've got i've got my other computer out so i've got them so

[1:32:06] Voice 6: don't do it just for me if you were all looking at your notes and you can see it and i'm the one

[1:32:11] Voice 6: that needed this i don't need it anymore oh

[1:32:14] Voice 5: no but there might be members of the public that

[1:32:17] Voice 5: might want to know what we're talking about.

[1:32:20] Voice 6: Thank you, David.

[1:32:22] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, so here's where the subdivision question comes up again.

[1:32:28] Planner Chadwick: And so that's, you know, this is another,

[1:32:31] Planner Chadwick: this is a different way of thinking about density on the island.

[1:32:37] Planner Chadwick: So if there continues to be a density bank,

[1:32:40] Planner Chadwick: should cluster housing replace subdivision

[1:32:42] Planner Chadwick: as a means of enabling a different approach?

[1:32:44] Planner Chadwick: So that's where you're thinking about.

[1:32:47] Planner Chadwick: If you were to remove some of the subdivision potential

[1:32:50] Planner Chadwick: potential that that potentially gives you some more densities and you could you could um move

[1:32:56] Planner Chadwick: those densities onto these properties in a clustered housing model so if you if you so say

[1:33:07] Planner Chadwick: you mean if you were to remove uh i don't know say um 20 so i i will point out actually which

[1:33:14] Planner Chadwick: was looking at the subdivision potential and we still have to review it so it's not exact

[1:33:19] Planner Chadwick: but it's coming out to about 150 potential lots

[1:33:22] Planner Chadwick: that could still be developed

[1:33:24] Voice 7: on Denman.

[1:33:26] Planner Chadwick: So if you were, say, to remove the potential from half of those,

[1:33:29] Planner Chadwick: that's 70, maybe, and if you consider the additional units

[1:33:36] Planner Chadwick: that may be allowed in addition to primary units,

[1:33:42] Planner Chadwick: you could be looking at, so if you remove like half of that 70,

[1:33:46] Planner Chadwick: it could be 150 units

[1:33:50] Planner Chadwick: potentially

[1:33:50] Planner Chadwick: so you could be looking at this

[1:33:56] Planner Chadwick: providing the clustered approach

[1:34:01] Planner Chadwick: whichever lots

[1:34:02] Planner Chadwick: that you apply that to

[1:34:04] Planner Chadwick: you could count how many densities that might be

[1:34:08] Planner Chadwick: and you might end up

[1:34:10] Planner Chadwick: you could do it in a way potentially where you even it out

[1:34:15] Planner Chadwick: cancel each other out

[1:34:17] Planner Chadwick: or what have you so you're not actually just increasing it's

[1:34:21] Planner McCargar: like that idea of no net increase

[1:34:23] Planner McCargar: in density yeah

[1:34:27] Planner Chadwick: so this is why i'm like it's important to look at all of this broadly right

[1:34:32] Planner Chadwick: all of the different um pieces to this so so there's that that question that's what that

[1:34:40] Planner Chadwick: question is referring to and maybe it needs to be maybe we need more background um um

[1:34:49] Planner Chadwick: yeah, what concerns people might have around clustered housing and, you know, safeguards

[1:34:57] Planner Chadwick: that should be considered. So, yeah, questions?

[1:35:07] Voice 6: So, if I may, question one,

[1:35:11] Voice 6: I like the idea of cluster housing replacing subdivisions. I wouldn't have the word density

[1:35:21] Voice 6: bank in there right okay

[1:35:24] Voice 6: i think that's that's just confusing yeah so let's let's just talk about

[1:35:28] Planner Chadwick: yeah

[1:35:28] Voice 6: yeah yeah

[1:35:29] Voice 6: you're right replacing

[1:35:31] Voice 6: subdivision as a means of okay

[1:35:34] Voice 7: um

[1:35:37] Trustee Borthwick: and i i wonder if uh

[1:35:40] Trustee Borthwick: and this is maybe just a little picky but again i think david you're that's you're exactly on on

[1:35:46] Trustee Borthwick: the money in terms of like the density bank is not necessarily relevant to this question per se

[1:35:51] Trustee Borthwick: say like or it can be considered separately um i guess i would maybe say like would instead of

[1:35:59] Trustee Borthwick: should like uh like would cluster housing uh be uh um an acceptable replacement for subdivision

[1:36:10] Trustee Borthwick: for something along those

[1:36:11] Planner Chadwick: lines what do you

[1:36:12] Planner Chadwick: think about cluster housing being because then it's a

[1:36:15] Planner Chadwick: kind of more of an opening question or do you prefer a more closed question

[1:36:18] Trustee Borthwick: i think directing

[1:36:19] Trustee Borthwick: it a little bit is good um but yeah i mean i david basically i was trying to like i was doing all

[1:36:26] Trustee Borthwick: sorts of gymnastics in my head trying to basically get to what david said which is a freaking a

[1:36:30] Trustee Borthwick: frequent experience at the demo lgc for me who's

[1:36:43] Planner Chadwick: is that you marlis he's on it

[1:36:48] Planner Chadwick: you've got it okay

[1:36:50] Planner Chadwick: so you can do

[1:36:51] Planner McCargar: i have the right

[1:36:51] Planner Chadwick: one up yes yeah no no do you support

[1:36:55] Planner Chadwick: oh yeah you can use that looks

[1:36:58] Planner Chadwick: looks like a different iteration but you can use that okay

[1:37:00] Planner McCargar: wondering

[1:37:02] Planner Chadwick: where the oh

[1:37:03] Planner McCargar: maybe it's this

[1:37:04] Planner McCargar: one here

[1:37:16] Planner Chadwick: i'm using my pen this is the the this is the generation difference here i'm using a pen and

[1:37:22] Planner Chadwick: i'm scribbling on my paper so just thought

[1:37:25] Planner McCargar: if we could get this you know

[1:37:26] Planner Chadwick: glad you're on it marlis

[1:37:28] Planner McCargar: this

[1:37:28] Planner Chadwick: is why we work together okay

[1:37:34] Planner McCargar: this is the right one yeah

[1:37:35] Trustee Borthwick: yeah and

[1:37:37] Planner McCargar: this was where you're

[1:37:38] Planner McCargar: saying remove density bank yeah right so just yeah

[1:37:44] Planner Chadwick: and so uh sam you're suggesting should

[1:37:49] Planner Chadwick: cluster housing yeah okay i

[1:37:53] Trustee Borthwick: mean that that works honestly i i was i think i think my possible i

[1:37:57] Trustee Borthwick: think yeah i think what i was saying was a bit clunky so i think that probably captures what

[1:38:01] Trustee Borthwick: we're trying to say or could yeah could

[1:38:06] Planner Chadwick: yeah and so this is where i've i've got phil test them out

[1:38:11] Planner Chadwick: I'm making some drawings that illustrate what cluster

[1:38:13] Planner Chadwick: housing would look like, like what's existing.

[1:38:19] Planner Chadwick: So right now, the starting drawings

[1:38:21] Planner Chadwick: are looking at what would be allowed with the existing floor

[1:38:29] Planner Chadwick: area.

[1:38:29] Planner Chadwick: So right now, you can have a very large house,

[1:38:32] Planner Chadwick: and you can have a lot of accessory buildings

[1:38:34] Planner Chadwick: versus what this cluster would look like.

[1:38:37] Planner Chadwick: And then I think we're going to work on him

[1:38:41] Planner Chadwick: doing one of what a sub what subdivision would look like so we've got a few illustrations of

[1:38:45] Planner Chadwick: the potential yeah

[1:38:48] Trustee Borthwick: the contrast

[1:38:50] Trustee Borthwick: i think with some graphics this would this would hit quite well

[1:38:54] Trustee Borthwick: yeah um uh on question two again this just it strikes me as a little bit as diving into

[1:39:03] Trustee Borthwick: fishing for for negative feedback which we're gonna get

[1:39:06] Trustee Borthwick: regardless um but i would like to try

[1:39:09] Trustee Borthwick: and I don't know that this is like I don't necessarily know uh I don't have a specific

[1:39:18] Trustee Borthwick: language but you know I'd love to frame that question

[1:39:21] Planner Chadwick: maybe what are your thoughts about

[1:39:23] Planner Chadwick: cluster housing then we can get both the negative and the positive yeah

[1:39:27] Trustee Borthwick: something along those lines

[1:39:28] Trustee Borthwick: I think diving specifically into into the negatives yeah yeah I agree

[1:39:33] Trustee Borthwick: is is not helpful

[1:39:35] Trustee Borthwick: helpful um we are we are past the point of like really doing a broad casting a wide net

[1:39:42] Trustee Borthwick: for ideas i think we really need to hone down a little focus

[1:39:46] Planner Chadwick: yeah yeah and maybe that we should

[1:39:50] Planner Chadwick: get rid of the other one because we're going to figure that out

[1:39:52] Trustee Borthwick: yeah yeah i don't know that i

[1:39:55] Trustee Borthwick: question yeah it doesn't add anything no to the conversation in my mind but you know it's it's

[1:40:05] Voice 6: interesting um i don't think there's any ocp policy or guideline that supports subdivision

[1:40:13] Voice 6: but there's a whole bunch of them that support not subdividing and and clustering

[1:40:22] Voice 6: i mean existing i'm talking about existing ocp guidelines and

[1:40:26] Voice 6: policies which yeah yeah

[1:40:28] Planner Chadwick: what's

[1:40:28] Voice 6: interesting about housing options talk about rent talk about uh succession planning

[1:40:33] Voice 6: And yet, but we continue to subdivide, which is, you know, Nerissa mentioned, this is an old urban idea.

[1:40:41] Voice 6: And it's got us in this pickle that we're in right now where nobody, unless you're a bazillionaire, can afford to move here,

[1:40:48] Voice 7: which is

[1:40:49] Voice 6: so sad.

[1:40:51] Planner McCargar: That's

[1:40:51] Planner Chadwick: where the land

[1:40:52] Planner McCargar: use bylaw regulations are so important, right?

[1:40:54] Planner McCargar: Right. Because even if the OCP, you know, has these high level policies, if the zoning regulations don't match, then you can still do things like this subdivide.

[1:41:06] Voice 6: That's what you should. Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead.

[1:41:10] Planner Chadwick: Yeah. Sorry. I was just going to point out that, like I did mention that we said we had a bit of an aha moment as staff and was like, you know, there's a really key conversation that needs to be had here around.

[1:41:22] Planner Chadwick: Do you want to continue with the traditional ways or are we looking at something different? And it's clear on Denman and Gabriela that there's conversations around something different. So what is that other different? And we have to address the existing that is traditional. We have to have that conversation.

[1:41:40] Planner Chadwick: And it was in the context of looking at the Gabriola OCP. So we're now at a point in time with the Gabriola OCP review where we've gone, we've engaged the community in looking at different topics of focus.

[1:41:59] Planner Chadwick: and um and we've had to parse those out and what we recognize is that in all of those you know when

[1:42:05] Planner Chadwick: you look when you're talking about environment water housing all the things there's a lot of

[1:42:10] Planner Chadwick: overlap because what we're doing is we're there we have we have a specific some very specific tools

[1:42:17] Planner Chadwick: that allow us to um uh to to influence how development happens and that is that subdivision

[1:42:24] Planner Chadwick: that's rezoning that's citing size and so if you look at it from a tools perspective

[1:42:30] Planner Chadwick: and what tools are we using to do what is is actually helps to reframe it and and that's

[1:42:37] Planner Chadwick: where it became very clear like um the tools that we've been using are are um our ocps have

[1:42:46] Planner Chadwick: been designed the from this old perspective of what we're doing you know of this framework which

[1:42:52] Planner Chadwick: which supports this sort of urban perspective

[1:43:02] Planner Chadwick: and a traditional way of looking at growth in a particular area.

[1:43:09] Planner Chadwick: So going through that, we were like, there's a decision here.

[1:43:12] Planner Chadwick: Like option one, are we still talking about traditional subdivision?

[1:43:16] Planner Chadwick: Or option two, are we not talking about traditional subdivision

[1:43:21] Planner Chadwick: and we're looking at something different?

[1:43:22] Planner Chadwick: so yeah

[1:43:23] Voice 6: where's the land sharing tools yeah

[1:43:29] Planner Chadwick: so we

[1:43:30] Voice 6: had to invent it where i live because we share

[1:43:32] Voice 6: land and there was no help yeah

[1:43:35] Planner Chadwick: yeah so

[1:43:36] Voice 6: i mean there's no legal help there's no insurance help

[1:43:40] Voice 6: there's no tax help we we've we've been the unicorn on on all those fronts because of the

[1:43:45] Voice 6: way we chose to live on this land just as a personal story subdivision just makes everything

[1:43:51] Voice 6: so much easier oh yes banks understands that that insurance companies understand

[1:43:55] Voice 6: yeah tax

[1:43:56] Voice 6: group understand it but you're you what you share land that's crazy yeah

[1:44:01] Planner Chadwick: yeah yeah i know well and

[1:44:03] Planner Chadwick: this is the traditional uh approach to land use right and it impacts how all of

[1:44:11] Planner Chadwick: these the systems

[1:44:12] Planner Chadwick: come together so yeah so how are we feeling with this discussion related to

[1:44:18] Voice 6: yep yeah what's next

[1:44:23] Voice 6: all

[1:44:23] Planner Chadwick: right and uh thank you sam i appreciate your email

[1:44:28] Planner Chadwick: we can work on this acronym a little

[1:44:30] Voice 7: yeah have

[1:44:31] Planner Chadwick: fun with it

[1:44:33] Planner Chadwick: i love it i love it okay okay

[1:44:38] Trustee Borthwick: it was very very facetious uh

[1:44:41] Planner Chadwick: you know i'm in the song where i'm

[1:44:42] Planner Chadwick: totally in the songwriting thing right now there's totally a song here so i will i'll

[1:44:46] Planner Chadwick: i'm not gonna promise anything but not

[1:44:49] Trustee Borthwick: not germane to the to this discussion but

[1:44:52] Trustee Borthwick: but just me being very silly.

[1:44:54] Planner Chadwick: Excellent.

[1:44:55] Planner Chadwick: Okay, so we're good.

[1:44:57] Planner Chadwick: You're good with where we're at with that discussion?

[1:44:59] Planner Chadwick: And then we can move on

[1:45:02] Planner Chadwick: to the secondary dwelling unit discussion.

[1:45:04] Planner Chadwick: So this is an interesting one

[1:45:10] Planner Chadwick: just in terms of the words we use.

[1:45:14] Planner Chadwick: So we're trying to create some consistency

[1:45:16] Planner Chadwick: across the trust.

[1:45:17] Planner Chadwick: And so this is where I've identified the conversations around secondary dwelling units.

[1:45:27] Planner Chadwick: And I think that, you know, also trying to create some consistency between the words we use and what's used at the provincial level, federal level.

[1:45:38] Planner Chadwick: so what I've identified there

[1:45:40] Planner Chadwick: so we were kind of introducing

[1:45:42] Planner Chadwick: this term secondary dwelling unit

[1:45:44] Planner Chadwick: to mean both secondary suites

[1:45:46] Planner Chadwick: as well as detached

[1:45:48] Planner Chadwick: secondary dwelling units

[1:45:49] Planner Chadwick: and I think the Denman

[1:45:52] Planner Chadwick: definition is sort of similar

[1:45:54] Planner Chadwick: but I think we need to get some clarity

[1:45:56] Planner Chadwick: so for the purposes of this discussion

[1:45:58] Planner Chadwick: I think we'll

[1:46:00] Planner Chadwick: land here

[1:46:01] Planner Chadwick: and see if that

[1:46:04] Planner Chadwick: provides clarity to the community around

[1:46:06] Planner Chadwick: what we're talking about

[1:46:07] Planner Chadwick: out. Just identify what's currently allowed, and we've talked a lot about this. So secondary

[1:46:16] Planner Chadwick: suites or detached units with TUPs. And so here we've got the options. And again, these

[1:46:27] Planner Chadwick: are not either or. These are not either or options. They can all be considered. So there's

[1:46:38] Planner Chadwick: the removal of the the tup requirement um and we've had that discussion we had a lot of that

[1:46:45] Planner Chadwick: discussion so i don't even need to dwell on that there is the um the discussion around uh allowing

[1:46:51] Planner Chadwick: either an attached or a detached unit so secondary suites are allowed outright right now um and and

[1:46:57] Planner Chadwick: this is this this was actually a good conversation on north pender um about a year ago um where um

[1:47:05] Planner Chadwick: um no and that in in the case there that in the particular zone they were allowed either a

[1:47:12] Planner Chadwick: secondary dwelling unit or a detached unit um and in it was a particular resident that brought up

[1:47:20] Planner Chadwick: that um the nature of the law didn't allow for a secondary unit but they had a you know a small um

[1:47:27] Planner Chadwick: a tiny home that that they were wanting to build and anyway so that's a that's a consideration

[1:47:32] Planner Chadwick: Because it doesn't, as long as the unit, and there's the ability, you know, there is the ability in a land use bylaw to create regulations around how close to the primary home, the secondary home would be to limit the impact on the land.

[1:47:54] Planner Chadwick: there is a conversation I think to be had around

[1:47:59] Planner Chadwick: whether you want to outright allow additional

[1:48:03] Planner Chadwick: dwelling units

[1:48:07] Planner Chadwick: or where they're currently allowed by TEP

[1:48:12] Planner Chadwick: or do you want to focus again on the suitable areas

[1:48:15] Planner Chadwick: and identify areas where maybe you have a secondary suite

[1:48:20] Planner Chadwick: and a secondary dwelling

[1:48:24] Planner Chadwick: dwelling that is detached, or maybe you're limiting where you can have secondary dwellings

[1:48:31] Planner Chadwick: altogether to areas that are suitable.

[1:48:35] Planner Chadwick: The question around legalizing currently unpermitted secondary units has come up, and that was

[1:48:42] Planner Chadwick: a big conversation.

[1:48:45] Planner Chadwick: We've had some, Kamalis and I have had some conversation and engaged our colleagues in

[1:48:51] Planner Chadwick: this conversation as well.

[1:48:52] Planner Chadwick: And there's a number of concerns that we have about outright allowing what's there and they're related to health and safety.

[1:49:02] Planner Chadwick: We've actually we've got a two page document that we're happy to share with you that kind of identifies those concerns outright.

[1:49:11] Planner Chadwick: OK, so just stepping away for a moment, but and I I've popped in this little number of units because there's this concern that if we if

[1:49:23] Planner Chadwick: if you allow secondary suites or secondary rolling units outright in areas,

[1:49:31] Planner Chadwick: then you're going to get this like huge growth of units.

[1:49:35] Planner Chadwick: This calculation was done during the period of time where the CMHC had their

[1:49:44] Planner Chadwick: housing accelerator fund program.

[1:49:48] Planner Chadwick: And so we did the research to find out how many units were given siting and use permits for those years.

[1:49:57] Planner Chadwick: I haven't done them. I can do them. I can do it for the other years if you're interested in that information.

[1:50:03] Planner Chadwick: But that gives you like an idea of how many units are actually built annually now.

[1:50:13] Planner Chadwick: And then we get into the questions there and maybe you want to wait for Sam.

[1:50:16] Planner Chadwick: but um trustee graham um what what are your thoughts and questions sure

[1:50:23] Voice 6: um well i've been

[1:50:26] Voice 6: using accessory dwelling units in all of my correspondence with my community adus because

[1:50:32] Voice 6: i thought that's where we had landed with that definition um i see that's in the comox valley

[1:50:38] Voice 6: they do adus i think the city of victoria when they talk about uh you know laneway houses and

[1:50:45] Voice 6: blah blah blah it's adu so

[1:50:46] Planner Chadwick: what's interesting is they also use adus for secondary suites

[1:50:51] Planner Chadwick: accessory dwelling unit is also secondary suite i know it's so confusing like vc housing

[1:50:56] Planner Chadwick: material they talk about adus and

[1:50:59] Planner Chadwick: it's a secondary suite and it's but that i mean i that's what we've

[1:51:04] Planner Chadwick: been using i think across the trust we've been talking about uh adus

[1:51:07] Voice 6: as the detached

[1:51:08] Planner Chadwick: units right

[1:51:09] Planner Chadwick: so anyway we can i

[1:51:12] Voice 6: would stick with that i think suites are suites everybody knows what a suite

[1:51:15] Voice 6: is and if we could at least just be consistent with what we're talking these cottages granny

[1:51:21] Voice 6: cottages secondary dwellings second homes whatever adus works for me as i say i've been using that

[1:51:28] Voice 6: that's what i use in my flagstone article for july when

[1:51:32] Planner Chadwick: you talk about adu are you also talking

[1:51:34] Planner Chadwick: about secondary suites like um attached okay

[1:51:38] Voice 6: so you want to

[1:51:39] Planner Chadwick: separate and i get you because this

[1:51:41] Planner Chadwick: This is just like a whole thing, right?

[1:51:43] Voice 6: Yeah, exactly.

[1:51:44] Voice 6: So we

[1:51:45] Voice 6: are within the footprint of the principal dwelling.

[1:51:48] Voice 6: ADUs are separate buildings.

[1:51:51] Planner Chadwick: Okay, so ADUs,

[1:51:52] Voice 6: we're

[1:51:53] Planner Chadwick: going to, we'll

[1:51:54] Voice 6: have to, we'll create the.

[1:51:55] Voice 6: Yeah, go ahead.

[1:51:57] Planner Chadwick: Sorry, we're talking on top of each other.

[1:51:59] Planner Chadwick: I apologize.

[1:52:00] Planner Chadwick: So we can create that definition and that'll be specific to Denon that an ADU is a detached unit.

[1:52:07] Voice 6: That works for me, yeah.

[1:52:08] Voice 6: Okay.

[1:52:09] Voice 6: Yeah.

[1:52:09] Voice 6: Yeah. And you were talking about regulations which define how far away from the principal dwelling.

[1:52:16] Voice 6: And we have those regulations. Yeah. So whenever I'm talking about the discussion as to whether we would, are you comfortable removing the TUP?

[1:52:25] Voice 6: I always say that all other restrictions would would apply. So we're not removing those, you know, so that there's a level of comfort for some people.

[1:52:34] Voice 6: Anyway, I wanted to get that two cents worth in. Yeah.

[1:52:39] Voice 6: Yeah.

[1:52:39] Planner Chadwick: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

[1:52:44] Planner Chadwick: Looks like we've got Trustee Borthwick back.

[1:52:47] Voice 6: And I totally, I mean, the Housing Advisory Planning Commission did say an outright legalized historic illegal dwellings, secondary ADUs.

[1:52:59] Voice 6: And I said to myself, that's scary. But I think it's fair enough to say that those people who have provided historical ADUs should have a process by which they go through.

[1:53:17] Voice 6: And the process

[1:53:18] Voice 6: which would give the Denver Local Trust Committee the tools to assess the suitability of that illegal dwelling, the environmental, how long is it?

[1:53:30] Voice 6: I mean, the process should be fairly thorough and involved.

[1:53:34] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, and what's interesting is

[1:53:35] Voice 6: we had

[1:53:36] Planner Chadwick: this conversation early in the process.

[1:53:39] Planner Chadwick: It was part of the list, our implementation list, and that was sort of taken out to be done as a separate project at the time.

[1:53:51] Voice 6: Yeah, I think I was, well, I think I may have proposed that let's let the next iteration of the Denver Local Trust Committee go down that road.

[1:53:57] Voice 6: Because I just saw that as being a bit of a sticky wick, as they say.

[1:54:03] Voice 7: Mm-hmm.

[1:54:04] Voice 7: Yeah.

[1:54:05] Voice 6: Yeah.

[1:54:05] Voice 6: but you know we're here we're here now and and sure let's get some feedback on what people think

[1:54:11] Voice 6: absolutely let's let's ask the question yeah so i like your first two questions i don't think you

[1:54:20] Voice 6: need the second two questions because you've been reading yeah yeah

[1:54:23] Planner Chadwick: you're i think you're right we

[1:54:25] Planner Chadwick: don't need that

[1:54:25] Voice 6: removing thanks to sam's perspective and i think

[1:54:30] Planner Chadwick: the fourth one i mean unless

[1:54:32] Planner Chadwick: because we're like i think i think that is that you know we're already considering what those

[1:54:41] Planner Chadwick: things might be. I mean, what's missing from here is actually the question around,

[1:55:06] Planner Chadwick: do you think that additional units should be restricted to suitable areas?

[1:55:19] Voice 6: With an undefined, the word suitable.

[1:55:23] Planner Chadwick: Yeah, I know. I'd have to define that. So restricted, okay, let's say we can define that.

[1:55:28] Planner Chadwick: areas um where there is um uh lesser impact on the environment archaeological sites

[1:55:37] Planner Chadwick: you know we can define that and however you'd like it to be

[1:55:40] Trustee Borthwick: yeah i um uh i'm erring on the

[1:55:46] Trustee Borthwick: side of like um reactively defining if a place is suitable as opposed to

[1:55:54] Trustee Borthwick: proactively going out and and and designating areas as as as uh suitable and sort of you know

[1:56:02] Trustee Borthwick: having it be something where someone comes forward and says hey i've got this place

[1:56:04] Trustee Borthwick: would this be appropriate for this and then we can examine the variables on you know on a case by

[1:56:10] Trustee Borthwick: case um yeah

[1:56:13] Planner Chadwick: well so that's where the question is like do you want to so yeah the question is

[1:56:17] Planner Chadwick: is allowing additional units outright.

[1:56:21] Planner Chadwick: So right now, they're allowed by TEP.

[1:56:23] Planner Chadwick: So it's allowing outright in all of the areas that are identified.

[1:56:30] Planner Chadwick: So the TEP process allowed for an evaluation of the suitability of those units

[1:56:35] Planner Chadwick: or identifying some very specific variables,

[1:56:40] Planner Chadwick: like not along the coast or in particular areas,

[1:56:45] Planner Chadwick: like particular concerns um uh that that that's what the question really is is like do you want

[1:56:54] Planner Chadwick: to restrict it in any way yeah

[1:57:01] Voice 6: that's a

[1:57:02] Voice 6: separate question i

[1:57:03] Planner Chadwick: mean this is

[1:57:04] Voice 6: to me that 200 meter

[1:57:07] Voice 6: buffer around our coastline should be a separate question yeah but it's a tip it's a tricky one

[1:57:14] Voice 6: because most people aren't even aware of the high value from a cultural historical or heritage

[1:57:22] Voice 6: perspective that we are. We've been blessed with that relationship, a deepening relationship with

[1:57:28] Voice 6: Comox First Nations. So we're like, I think, I'm just speaking personally, but I'm like,

[1:57:33] Voice 6: I had no idea. And now I have a great deal of information. And so if I were making the decision,

[1:57:40] Voice 6: I would say, well, I wouldn't be looking at any increase in density along that coastline for 200

[1:57:47] Voice 6: meters, period. Well, the other thing

[1:57:51] Planner Chadwick: to consider is that the Comox, because we have engaged them

[1:57:55] Planner Chadwick: quite deeply, they will be coming with their recommendations and considerations, and that

[1:58:03] Planner Chadwick: that that will be one of them so makes

[1:58:06] Voice 6: sense to me yeah yeah i

[1:58:12] Voice 6: don't know if there's any of those

[1:58:14] Voice 6: r2f or re lots that are on the water you have the map the

[1:58:19] Planner Chadwick: r2 r2 yeah are there i

[1:58:23] Planner Chadwick: think there are

[1:58:24] Planner Chadwick: yeah amazing

[1:58:25] Voice 6: i've

[1:58:26] Planner Chadwick: got the subdivision potential one as well um like i said we've got i was

[1:58:31] Voice 6: assuming they were inland but you know more than i there might be some up

[1:58:36] Trustee Borthwick: around the north end

[1:58:37] Trustee Borthwick: so

[1:58:40] Planner Chadwick: so this is showing it's

[1:58:42] Trustee Borthwick: like yeah

[1:58:45] Voice 6: that's possible yeah

[1:58:46] Trustee Borthwick: there's like at least one maybe

[1:58:47] Trustee Borthwick: that hits just by the bluffs but

[1:58:49] Voice 6: they're 100 feet from the world yeah

[1:58:51] Trustee Borthwick: yeah yeah yeah

[1:58:54] Planner Chadwick: so you can see

[1:58:55] Planner Chadwick: up here there's like quite a bit of potential

[1:58:58] Trustee Borthwick: you're the only one we're seeing oh yeah

[1:59:02] Voice 6: we can't

[1:59:02] Voice 6: see anything oh i'm sorry

[1:59:04] Voice 6: i'm looking at my ceiling yeah

[1:59:09] Planner Chadwick: yeah there you go um yeah so this

[1:59:14] Planner Chadwick: the and like i said we're needed to double check this but this is what we've got on our first uh

[1:59:20] Planner Chadwick: right kind of

[1:59:21] Planner Chadwick: go through um is that there so there's some coastal lots that have um some

[1:59:27] Planner Chadwick: significant potential um in the north there there's a couple up there um and then when you go

[1:59:32] Planner Chadwick: further south you can see um they've got they can be divided into like one additional

[1:59:41] Planner Chadwick: there's this whole subdivision here that has has more potential yeah so yeah okay thank you

[1:59:49] Voice 6: yeah but i do want to have that conversation with our community about this idea of

[2:00:01] Voice 6: maybe a development permit area some way of protecting that 200 meter buffer around our the

[2:00:08] Voice 6: circumference

[2:00:09] Planner Chadwick: yeah well there's definitely that opportunity um and like again in the immediate

[2:00:14] Planner Chadwick: opportunity within your within this project is is to just not allow uh additional units within

[2:00:21] Planner Chadwick: that buffer area

[2:00:22] Trustee Borthwick: well that yeah and i mean i i was actually going to ask about this too as a

[2:00:26] Trustee Borthwick: separate thing but i know that that was something that we had as a request in a letter from the

[2:00:32] Trustee Borthwick: comox um and i don't know if that's something that we're planning to revisit after the joint

[2:00:36] Trustee Borthwick: meeting with hornby um i don't know if that was the intention but i was definitely um keen to

[2:00:45] Trustee Borthwick: sort of revisit that and you know i think that's something that's worth implementing

[2:00:50] Planner Chadwick: just just straight out like i mean we

[2:00:52] Trustee Borthwick: could even separate from everything right like let's just

[2:00:55] Trustee Borthwick: like

[2:00:56] Planner Chadwick: in the communications material we can indicate that comox has requested this and

[2:01:01] Planner Chadwick: the trustees are currently very supportive of it um so so both like the cluster housing

[2:01:09] Planner Chadwick: the um the secondary units wouldn't apply in that area in this

[2:01:17] Planner Chadwick: i don't know that i would even

[2:01:18] Trustee Borthwick: fold it into that conversation i think i think this is something that we've we've had some clear

[2:01:23] Trustee Borthwick: communication about and you know we we can consider i think it's a separate question almost

[2:01:29] Trustee Borthwick: um you know it's a bit of a superseding issue to me um so i guess

[2:01:34] Trustee Borthwick: the question relates but it's not

[2:01:35] Trustee Borthwick: do

[2:01:35] Planner Chadwick: you want necessarily

[2:01:36] Trustee Borthwick: yeah sorry do

[2:01:38] Planner Chadwick: you want to introduce that just like i mean we can show the

[2:01:41] Planner Chadwick: map right so if we if we can say like here uh here's the map of the archaeological or the

[2:01:47] Planner Chadwick: the the agricultural land and here's the map

[2:01:50] Planner Chadwick: of of what um the comox has requested in terms of a

[2:01:54] Planner Chadwick: boundary so these are the no-go areas for conversation yeah

[2:02:00] Voice 6: we could do that i would

[2:02:01] Voice 6: that's what i would like to start that conversation with that yeah

[2:02:05] Trustee Borthwick: well and i think i'd just like to

[2:02:07] Trustee Borthwick: advance because i think to um just think in terms of presenting it as something that this is we've

[2:02:14] Trustee Borthwick: had a request about i think i'd also like to be clear that i'd like for us to be addressing that

[2:02:19] Trustee Borthwick: that boundary question separately you know in

[2:02:23] Trustee Borthwick: in a as a separate piece of business um

[2:02:27] Trustee Borthwick: because it seems pretty straightforward and we've had a strong request to to implement it and i

[2:02:34] Trustee Borthwick: think it's in line with um you know the the other otherwise the priorities of the cell pc like

[2:02:39] Trustee Borthwick: Like,

[2:02:39] Planner Chadwick: it

[2:02:40] Trustee Borthwick: seems like something that's worth just pursuing anyways.

[2:02:43] Trustee Borthwick: But I just wonder if people will challenge it if we present it just as, if we present it as already in existence without having had it come up as a piece of business.

[2:02:57] Planner Chadwick: right so so so that map that i showed you um so if we're if we were going to share a map with the

[2:03:03] Planner Chadwick: public um what i'm hearing is maybe you would prefer not like if we're like these are the no

[2:03:11] Planner Chadwick: go we know that the archaeological or sorry the agricultural areas

[2:03:15] Trustee Borthwick: concern yeah

[2:03:16] Planner Chadwick: that well where

[2:03:18] Planner Chadwick: you where you can't we you know we're not even part of the conversation is is is the protected

[2:03:24] Planner Chadwick: areas agricultural land reserve um and we can make it a different color and just say and this

[2:03:29] Planner Chadwick: is what comox has yeah

[2:03:33] Voice 6: maybe that's the way to do that yeah and so then the question can be posed

[2:03:37] Voice 6: would you would you think that it makes sense to add that extra colored ring to the

[2:03:45] Voice 6: the protected lands which are not going to be considered for extra densities and that seems

[2:03:51] Voice 6: seems reasonable.

[2:03:51] Trustee Borthwick: Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's probably a good way to frame it. Yeah. Um,

[2:03:56] Trustee Borthwick: but that is definitely a piece of business I'd like to bring up at, at, at a meeting at some

[2:04:00] Trustee Borthwick: point. Um, cause I think that we've had a clear request and it

[2:04:04] Voice 7: satisfies

[2:04:05] Trustee Borthwick: a lot of, you know,

[2:04:08] Voice 7: points. So, and they have

[2:04:11] Planner McCargar: their map that is publicly available that outlines their area

[2:04:14] Trustee Borthwick: of

[2:04:14] Planner McCargar: potential so um yeah it's not like that information we can't share yeah

[2:04:20] Trustee Borthwick: no it's more

[2:04:21] Trustee Borthwick: just i i don't want to present it as being a um a hard and fast thing that we've already sort of put

[2:04:26] Trustee Borthwick: in place um you know but i also don't necessarily want to debate it uh like i don't necessarily want

[2:04:32] Trustee Borthwick: it to be a question of debate with the public

[2:04:35] Trustee Borthwick: because it's that's actually a discussion that's

[2:04:37] Trustee Borthwick: between the trust and and the nation um

[2:04:40] Voice 7: as

[2:04:41] Trustee Borthwick: it from a perspective of reconciliation it's not um

[2:04:45] Trustee Borthwick: yeah there's a there's sort of a statement of fact around that request yeah so

[2:04:51] Trustee Borthwick: i think stating

[2:04:53] Trustee Borthwick: it that

[2:04:53] Planner Chadwick: the request has been such the decision is yet

[2:04:56] Planner Chadwick: to be made but the this has been the request

[2:04:59] Planner Chadwick: and you can put

[2:04:59] Trustee Borthwick: that out to the public

[2:05:00] Planner Chadwick: as like this has been the request so yeah it's it's just

[2:05:03] Planner Chadwick: something

[2:05:04] Trustee Borthwick: that i don't necessarily know is appropriate for us to debate that's that's all

[2:05:07] Trustee Borthwick: yeah

[2:05:07] Planner Chadwick: yeah yeah yeah okay um any other conversations related to the the the cluster

[2:05:16] Planner Chadwick: housing nope

[2:05:23] Trustee Borthwick: all right sorry

[2:05:24] Planner Chadwick: the secondary units the

[2:05:26] Trustee Borthwick: yeah where are we sorry

[2:05:28] Planner Chadwick: yes we're almost at

[2:05:29] Planner Chadwick: the end here um

[2:05:30] Trustee Borthwick: secondary

[2:05:31] Planner Chadwick: dwelling units the secondary suites and the adus all

[2:05:37] Voice 6: three of them

[2:05:39] Planner Chadwick: okay so you're feeling good about that yeah okay

[2:05:43] Planner Chadwick: so i think that's what we'll do marlis and i will

[2:05:45] Planner Chadwick: put together some um we'll revise this material we'll send it out to you for another review

[2:05:51] Planner Chadwick: um and then we'll get um we'll get um morgana to make it look pretty and um i'm i'm expecting

[2:06:00] Planner Chadwick: phil's drawings in a couple within about a week and a half he's working on them so we'll pop those

[2:06:08] Planner Chadwick: in as best we can

[2:06:09] Planner Chadwick: and then we'll have some materials

[2:06:11] Planner Chadwick: we'll let you review them until we

[2:06:13] Planner Chadwick: finalize them

[2:06:16] Planner Chadwick: and we can do up some boards

[2:06:18] Planner Chadwick: with I'll send

[2:06:20] Planner Chadwick: out a list to you of

[2:06:22] Planner Chadwick: the things that we're looking at

[2:06:24] Planner Chadwick: creating boards for

[2:06:25] Planner Chadwick: and then you can

[2:06:28] Planner Chadwick: decide whether that's

[2:06:30] Planner Chadwick: good if there are additional

[2:06:32] Planner Chadwick: pieces and I can try and do that

[2:06:34] Planner Chadwick: I'm away all of

[2:06:36] Planner Chadwick: next week but

[2:06:36] Planner Chadwick: But that following week, you can anticipate having that material to look at and review.

[2:06:45] Planner Chadwick: So that'll give us a decent amount of time before the 26th to be able to create that presentation material for the market.

[2:06:53] Planner Chadwick: And we can bring that to the conversation.

[2:06:56] Planner Chadwick: conversation and uh and then we can have um some uh topic focused discussions and be able to provide

[2:07:03] Planner Chadwick: essentially the information that we that we've provided to you today but a little bit cleaned up

[2:07:09] Planner Chadwick: does that sound good it

[2:07:11] Voice 6: sounds really good yeah

[2:07:13] Planner Chadwick: all right well thank you for your patience and

[2:07:15] Planner Chadwick: thank you for your for being so engaged because it's really helpful really helps us in our work

[2:07:20] Planner Chadwick: we're engaging

[2:07:22] Planner Chadwick: you're very

[2:07:25] Planner Chadwick: engaging that's right

[2:07:26] Planner Chadwick: yes so do i get to hear your saxophone if uh

[2:07:30] Planner Chadwick: i'm spending the whole weekend oh

[2:07:32] Voice 6: i don't know about that now now we're talking right

[2:07:35] Planner Chadwick: right

[2:07:36] Voice 6: we're playing sometime in september maybe that'll coincide with oh

[2:07:40] Planner Chadwick: yeah yeah we're talking

[2:07:42] Planner Chadwick: that'd be great i'm so curious i don't know what

[2:07:45] Planner Chadwick: I don't know what

[2:07:45] Voice 6: the date of that gig is, but I'll let you know when I know.

[2:07:48] Planner Chadwick: Okay. Excellent.

[2:07:49] Voice 6: And yeah, now we just do our motion to reformat our next meeting.

[2:07:55] Voice 6: Is that correct?

[2:07:56] Voice 6: Yes, please.

[2:07:58] Voice 6: I'm happy to do that.

[2:08:00] Voice 6: Stan, yeah, thank you.

[2:08:01] Voice 6: Yeah.

[2:08:02] Planner Chadwick: You also have motions related to this discussion as well.

[2:08:06] Trustee Borthwick: Oh, right.

[2:08:07] Trustee Borthwick: We can do that too.

[2:08:08] Trustee Borthwick: Should we do that first?

[2:08:10] Trustee Borthwick: Yeah.

[2:08:10] Planner Chadwick: So I would say, so you want to amend the first recommendation

[2:08:14] Planner Chadwick: that the Denman Island Local Trust Committee endorsed the proposed direction

[2:08:19] Planner Chadwick: as related to the four topics, blah, blah, blah,

[2:08:22] Planner Chadwick: as discussed at the June 26th

[2:08:26] Planner Chadwick: LTC meeting. Just add that to the end, and then that'll incorporate everything

[2:08:30] Planner Chadwick: we've discussed. And that the

[2:08:35] Planner Chadwick: Denman Island Local Trust endorsed the

[2:08:38] Planner Chadwick: revisions to the engagement plan timeline as discussed,

[2:08:42] Planner Chadwick: so that'll also um include that um bringing back

[2:08:47] Trustee Borthwick: the should we put in a meeting like today's

[2:08:50] Trustee Borthwick: meeting date as discussed

[2:08:51] Planner Chadwick: at the meeting yeah yeah etc the 26th of june yeah all right well

[2:08:56] Trustee Borthwick: i'm

[2:08:57] Voice 6: happy to make

[2:08:57] Trustee Borthwick: the first one okay thanks chad uh i moved the demin island local trust committee

[2:09:02] Trustee Borthwick: endorsed the proposed direction related to the following four topics density bank density bank

[2:09:08] Trustee Borthwick: floor area and lot coverage limits small unit detached clustered housing and increasing

[2:09:13] Trustee Borthwick: permission for secondary dwellings as discussed at the special demin island local trust committee

[2:09:19] Trustee Borthwick: meeting of june 26 2025 i'll

[2:09:24] Voice 6: second that motion any

[2:09:25] Voice 5: further discussion

[2:09:26] Trustee Borthwick: if

[2:09:28] Voice 5: not we'll call the

[2:09:28] Voice 5: question all in favor aye aye

[2:09:30] Voice 5: aye there we go okay second motion i

[2:09:36] Voice 6: move that the demin

[2:09:37] Voice 6: The Deminell Local Trust Committee endorsed the revisions to the engagement plan timeline as discussed at the June 26th, 2025 meeting of the Deminell Local Trust Committee.

[2:09:48] Trustee Borthwick: Aye.

[2:09:49] Trustee Borthwick: I'm a second.

[2:09:51] Trustee Borthwick: Jumping.

[2:09:52] Voice 5: Jumping again.

[2:09:53] Voice 5: Okay.

[2:09:54] Voice 5: Any further discussion?

[2:09:55] Voice 5: Not?

[2:09:56] Voice 5: Okay.

[2:09:56] Voice 5: We'll call the question.

[2:09:57] Voice 5: All in favor?

[2:09:57] Voice 7: Aye.

[2:09:58] Voice 5: Aye.

[2:09:59] Voice 7: And that carries.

[2:10:02] Voice 5: All righty.

[2:10:03] Voice 5: And now we'll call for

[2:10:04] Voice 5: a third motion.

[2:10:06] Voice 6: You got that right.

[2:10:09] Trustee Borthwick: Yeah.

[2:10:10] Trustee Borthwick: Everything good, Catherine?

[2:10:12] Voice 1: Yes. And your third motion is the one about the specific next July 15th.

[2:10:18] Trustee Borthwick: Yes. Yeah. And I'm going to just add the time in as well.

[2:10:22] Voice 1: Okay.

[2:10:24] Trustee Borthwick: So I move that the Denman Island Local Trust Committee request staff to arrange for the next Local Trust Committee meeting scheduled for July 15th, 2025 at 10 a.m. to be held electronically.

[2:10:40] Voice 5: Thank you, Trustee Graham. All right.

[2:10:42] Voice 5: All right. For the discussion, call the question. All in favor?

[2:10:46] Voice 5: Aye.

[2:10:47] Voice 5: Please have it.

[2:10:49] Voice 6: Cool.

[2:10:50] Voice 5: All right.

[2:10:53] Voice 5: All right, everybody.

[2:10:54] Voice 5: Our business today.

[2:10:57] Voice 5: Excellent. Thank you.

[2:10:59] Voice 5: All right.

[2:11:00] Voice 5: So, by general consent, we will call this meeting adjourned.

[2:11:05] Voice 5: Thank you, everybody.

[2:11:06] Voice 5: It's been a wonderful educational opportunity, as always.

[2:11:10] Voice 5: And I guess we will be seeing you on screen on July 15th.

[2:11:15] Voice 6: Very good.

[2:11:16] Voice 6: Very good.

[2:11:16] Voice 6: Thank you, David. Thank you.

[2:11:18] Voice 5: Thank you.

[2:11:18] Voice 6: Thanks, everyone.

[2:11:20] Voice 5: Bye.

[2:11:21] Voice 5: Bye.

[2:11:22] Voice 5: Bye now.