Islands Trust Regional Planning Committee regular meeting, July 18, 2025

[0:00:00] Voice 7: the Islands Trust Regional Planning Meeting today and I'd just like to start by saying that

[0:00:07] Voice 7: we acknowledge that we are meeting on islands where they've been the traditional home of many

[0:00:16] Voice 7: First Nations. They were here before us and they took care of this place and we're fortunate to be

[0:00:22] Voice 7: here so thank you um okay uh let's go around the table just quick introductions and i'll just do it

[0:00:31] Voice 7: according to the list on the right and i will do it according to the list to the degree that

[0:00:37] Voice 7: i won't necessarily do trustees first i'm just going to go by the list okay so first of all

[0:00:44] Voice 7: myself i am a trustee for saturn island and i'm chair of the regional planning committee

[0:00:51] Voice 7: Rob, you're next.

[0:00:54] Voice 10: Hi, I'm the Planning Services Admin Assistant for Islands Trust, Rob Croker.

[0:00:59] Voice 10: Happy to be supporting the Regional Planning Committee today.

[0:01:02] Voice 7: Thank you.

[0:01:03] Voice 7: Robert Kojima.

[0:01:05] Voice 13: I'm Robert Kojima, Regional Planning Manager for the Southern Region.

[0:01:10] Voice 13: Okay, Warren.

[0:01:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Good morning, Warren Dingman, Manager of Compliance and Enforcement for all

[0:01:17] Voice 7: local trust areas.

[0:01:19] Voice 7: Stefan.

[0:01:20] Voice 7: Morning,

[0:01:21] Voice 1: everybody. Stefan Cermak, Director of Planning Services.

[0:01:27] Voice 7: Sam.

[0:01:30] Voice 11: I'm Sam Borthwick, local trustee on Denman Island, Tostek, and the Vice Chair of the Regional Planning Committee.

[0:01:41] Voice 7: And Aaron Campbell. Aaron?

[0:01:46] Voice 3: Aaron Campbell, North Pender Island.

[0:01:51] Voice 7: And Toby Elliott. Toby?

[0:01:57] Trustee Elliott: Hello, everyone.

[0:01:58] Trustee Elliott: Toby Elliott, elected on Gabriela Island in Snanamik First Nation Territory, and Vice Chair, so I sit on Thetis, South Pender, Maine, and Liskiti Island local trust committees as well.

[0:02:11] Voice 7: Thanks. And David, David Graham?

[0:02:14] Voice 2: Hi there. Locally elected on Denman Island, David Graham, traditional territory of the Qualicum and the Comox, Pentlatch people also.

[0:02:24] Voice 7: So Chair Patrick, I see you're, yes, you're Trustee Patrick in this context.

[0:02:30] Voice 7: Sure.

[0:02:31] Trustee Patrick: I'm Laura Patrick, elected on Salt Spring territories, or unceded and treaty territories of many Coast Salish First Nations.

[0:02:42] Voice 7: Thanks. William, William Shilbo?

[0:02:50] Voice 12: Hi there. My name is William Shilbo. I'm the Freshwater Specialist for the Islands Trust.

[0:02:54] Voice 12: I'm coming to you from Salt Spring Island, an unceded territory of many Coast Salish people.

[0:03:01] Voice 12: I also wanted to say that the link to the webinar is expired on the website, and I'm hoping to have our consultant that just finished with us, Landon, to attend the meeting, and then if we need him, we can call on him as a panelist. Thank you.

[0:03:21] Voice 12: okay

[0:03:23] Voice 7: thank you okay let's open the meeting um so first of all a review of the gen of the agenda

[0:03:30] Voice 7: does anybody have anything they want to add or change uh i have one suggestion which is to deal

[0:03:42] Voice 7: with that crown referrals thing first because we get to the end of meetings and then it sort of

[0:03:49] Voice 7: lingers on is would that be okay with you Stefan yeah I don't think it's a huge thing and I think

[0:03:56] Voice 7: we should just get it off the list okay so with that change so we'll just move the crown

[0:04:04] Voice 7: referrals issue to the top and deal with it first so with that let's approve the agenda by consent

[0:04:12] Voice 7: consent. Any objections? Nope. Okay. We don't have any public in attendance, I believe. Is that

[0:04:22] Voice 7: correct, Rob?

[0:04:25] Voice 10: At the moment, yes, Chair Boland, that's correct.

[0:04:28] Voice 7: Okay, so no

[0:04:30] Trustee Patrick: public comments.

[0:04:31] Trustee Patrick: Chair, I have heard there is something wrong with the link, so no one's able to attend. And I've

[0:04:38] Trustee Patrick: heard from one person, I just copied you a response that wanted to speak. Okay. I don't know what's

[0:04:44] Trustee Patrick: wrong well

[0:04:45] Voice 7: why don't we circle back to that is somebody looking into uh fixing the link rob

[0:04:53] Voice 10: that's correct i'm just logging into the website right now and i should have a the correct link

[0:04:57] Voice 10: up for us in just a moment here and i'll let everyone know when that's the case okay fair

[0:05:02] Voice 7: enough well then we'll come back to the we'll put a public comment period in later once the link is

[0:05:07] Voice 7: fixed maybe we should leave it till the end so that people have time to find out that the link

[0:05:12] Voice 7: is working etc but we probably need to fix on a particular time so uh so that they can um plan

[0:05:22] Voice 7: um should we suggest something like i don't know 12 30 we'll have a public comment session

[0:05:30] Voice 7: would that work do you think suggestions welcome um

[0:05:34] Voice 11: i was just going to say chair um that if

[0:05:38] Voice 11: If people are currently expecting public comment at 10 or slightly thereafter, 12.30 might put it too far into people's day.

[0:05:51] Voice 11: My suggestion would be once we know that we've got the link up and running, which I would guess is what Rob is about to tell us, that we sort of wait and see if people sort of trickle in and then ad hoc it.

[0:06:06] Voice 7: Okay, fair enough.

[0:06:07] Voice 7: Rob, go.

[0:06:08] Voice 10: That's correct.

[0:06:09] Voice 10: Chair Boland I've refreshed the link on the web page now and I welcome anybody who is watching to

[0:06:14] Voice 10: press that attend link we should be able to join our meeting now okay

[0:06:19] Voice 7: that's great thank you so

[0:06:20] Voice 7: we just that's a good good good plan Sam we just see who arrives and then just go to a public

[0:06:26] Voice 7: comment period and okay so and no correspondence so now we're on to the draft minutes of the

[0:06:35] Voice 7: previous meetings does anybody have anything to add to those minutes any questions yeah i think

[0:06:49] Voice 7: they're good they're good minutes i think generally the minutes in the islands trust are pretty good

[0:06:54] Voice 7: but when i read especially sort of rambling discussions somehow or other everything every

[0:06:59] Voice 7: little thought we had seems to be captured and i like the balance of the to and fro on the one

[0:07:05] Voice 7: hand this on the other so it really does reflect the discussion very well so i appreciate that

[0:07:11] Voice 7: thank you um no resolutions without meeting so we are going to move on to the follow-up action list

[0:07:22] Voice 7: uh would you like to open that up on the screen for us rob please if you have the link fixed

[0:07:35] Trustee Elliott: chair just one point go ahead if you can see my hand i think we have to um by general consent

[0:07:44] Trustee Elliott: approve the minutes um okay oh

[0:07:49] Voice 7: yes i beg your pardon sorry thanks for drawing that to my

[0:07:52] Voice 7: attention um yes just back to the draft minutes anybody uh have anything they want to add or

[0:08:00] Voice 7: or let me put it the other way around does anybody want to raise their hand and object

[0:08:04] Voice 7: to approving the minutes so the minutes are approved by general consent and and now we're

[0:08:16] Voice 7: on to the follow-up action list thanks toby and could we have that a tiny bit bigger if you don't

[0:08:27] Voice 7: mind i know that it means you lose some at the side but oh no okay that's perfect um so

[0:08:39] Voice 7: So I did have a question myself, which is, so the date on the top, 24 August 2022, that was when the action was raised.

[0:08:52] Voice 7: Is that correct?

[0:08:54] Voice 1: That is correct, Chair.

[0:08:55] Voice 7: Okay, thanks.

[0:08:58] Voice 7: And then the date on the right, the target date, is that changed?

[0:09:06] Voice 7: Let's see, if you make a target, can you change that with that consultation?

[0:09:12] Voice 1: Great question, Chair.

[0:09:14] Voice 1: Yes, we change it, but we don't change it generally without informing the RPC or respective body that it's changing and why.

[0:09:21] Voice 1: So in this circumstance, we have been keeping the Regional Planning Committee up to date on the sort of frequently asked questions in relation to the Freshwater Sustainability Strategy and updating it accordingly.

[0:09:34] Voice 1: So that's been reported several times

[0:09:37] Voice 7: as

[0:09:38] Voice 1: an example.

[0:09:39] Voice 1: example.

[0:09:41] Voice 7: Okay. So the 100% then on the first item, discussion of a midterm independent review. Okay,

[0:09:50] Voice 7: I understand that now. And then the target was. So was that the original target or is that just

[0:09:56] Voice 7: the data was completed though?

[0:10:01] Voice 1: The first

[0:10:03] Voice 7: item. I'm just curious to the mechanism and the process

[0:10:05] Voice 7: behind this.

[0:10:07] Voice 1: Okay. So sorry, we're on page two. That's what was throwing me off. The first one

[0:10:11] Voice 1: wasn't 100 percent uh staff to include yeah so it's the target was certainly um because it was

[0:10:16] Voice 1: for the may um rpc meeting and that top item uh when it was done we just marked it as done so

[0:10:22] Voice 1: that was an easy target to put in there because it was sort of right in the resolution i believe

[0:10:27] Voice 1: right there was said staff to include in the may rpc agenda so the target date was established

[0:10:32] Voice 1: early on

[0:10:33] Voice 7: okay okay that's great uh anybody else want to raise anything that's on this list

[0:10:39] Voice 7: I think some of them we'll discuss during the meeting in any case.

[0:10:49] Voice 7: No.

[0:10:50] Voice 7: Okay.

[0:10:51] Voice 7: So we will approve the follow-up action list by consent.

[0:11:00] Voice 7: Okay.

[0:11:01] Voice 7: And now we move on to the meat of the discussions.

[0:11:09] Voice 7: Chair,

[0:11:11] Voice 1: do you mind if I interrupt?

[0:11:12] Voice 7: Yeah, go ahead.

[0:11:12] Voice 7: I

[0:11:13] Voice 1: just note that in terms of public comments, I see two people attending.

[0:11:18] Voice 1: And if you

[0:11:19] Voice 1: wanted to return to that before we get into the meet, as you say, perhaps now is the time.

[0:11:26] Voice 7: Okay. So the people who are in the comment, who would like to participate in public comment, how does this process work?

[0:11:36] Voice 7: Rob, can you inform me?

[0:11:39] Voice 10: Yes, Chair. I have a member of the public who's raised their hand.

[0:11:44] Voice 10: And if you look, I can allow them to speak and then they can make their make their comment.

[0:11:50] Voice 7: Sure. OK, so I see that it's Maxine Lechner.

[0:11:54] Voice 7: So, Maxine, if you would, Rob, promote her and we'll hear.

[0:12:00] Voice 7: It's in the public comment period. So it's kind of two minutes with a bit of flexibility.

[0:12:06] Voice 7: So I'd appreciate it if you could hold that time. Thank you.

[0:12:11] Voice 6: Can you hear me?

[0:12:12] Voice 7: Yes, I can. Go ahead, Maxine.

[0:12:14] Voice 6: Okay, this is about the freshwater strategy. I'm speaking for Friends of the Gulf Islands, and would like to make sure that your request for review of this project is useful.

[0:12:27] Voice 6: And in order to be useful, it needs to produce understandable results that the trustees can understand and the public can understand.

[0:12:40] Voice 6: And the description that's in your agenda package is really a bunch of bureaucratic speak. It's not regular English. And I would suggest that you insert into that a request for the information we need.

[0:12:58] Voice 6: And here's what we need. We need to know where there's water for more development and where there's already enough development that there isn't any more water.

[0:13:09] Voice 6: And we need to know what parts of the island need to be protected in order to protect existing water supplies.

[0:13:17] Voice 6: And the reason we need this to be understandable to everybody is because no matter what the result is, someone's going to be unhappy, right?

[0:13:26] Voice 6: Right. If they say there's not enough water for more development, then people who want more development will be unhappy.

[0:13:33] Voice 6: And if they say there's lots of there is more water for more development, then other people are going to be unhappy.

[0:13:39] Voice 6: So everybody really needs to be able to understand the information in common, regular language.

[0:13:46] Voice 6: And and the project needs to be affordable and a reasonable price into the future.

[0:13:56] Voice 6: And so I really would suggest that you take the time to go over the request that goes to the consultant and make sure that the goals I've outlined or one possibility or your goals for the project are really clear.

[0:14:10] Voice 6: Is this project meeting the goals and needs of the Trust Council?

[0:14:16] Voice 6: Thank you. That's it.

[0:14:19] Voice 7: Thanks, Maxine. I appreciate you taking the time to give us your insight.

[0:14:25] Voice 7: Thank you for attending.

[0:14:27] Voice 7: thank you for letting me speak okay thank you okay so um we did agree that we'd deal with the

[0:14:39] Voice 7: um referrals uh crown referrals issue first and so let's um deal with that now uh stefan do you

[0:14:47] Voice 7: want to give us uh your insight please sure

[0:14:52] Voice 1: thank you chair the um this issue about um crown tenure

[0:14:56] Voice 1: your application referrals has kind of ping-ponged around the executive committee

[0:15:03] Voice 1: for very and amongst various LTCs and so what you have before you here is a referral from the

[0:15:10] Voice 1: executive committee they forwarded these two briefings which are attached to the cover briefing

[0:15:14] Voice 1: I apologize for the multiple briefings in one but it's the cleanest way to make sure you get the

[0:15:20] Voice 1: information that's been forwarded and that is to consider uh what EC has referred to you and that

[0:15:26] Voice 1: is you know summarized in the sort of three points um Rob if you could swing down to page 93 or 94

[0:15:36] Voice 1: so one two three you'll see there and those three those first two items have been referred to the

[0:15:42] Voice 1: regional planning committee for consideration in terms of policies and procedures amendments

[0:15:48] Voice 1: amendments and then the third item is in terms of updating the letter of understanding between

[0:15:55] Voice 1: ourselves and the relevant ministry and that's been referred to the trust programs committee

[0:16:00] Voice 1: so i'm really doing a super fast version of summarizing that the crown lease referral

[0:16:05] Voice 1: process that we have it's recommended that the regional planning committee put it on the work

[0:16:10] Voice 1: program to update the policies and procedures in relation to that and the specific item of

[0:16:15] Voice 1: The letter of understanding with the ministry, I believe ex-officio Patrick is well-versed in that topic area.

[0:16:23] Voice 1: It'd be referred to the Trust Programs Committee as they manage those types of agreements.

[0:16:29] Voice 1: So that's my short version.

[0:16:32] Voice 1: I'm happy to expand that in a conversation, if you wish.

[0:16:35] Voice 7: Thanks. Discussion? Anybody want to speak?

[0:16:41] Voice 7: So I put myself on the list.

[0:16:44] Voice 7: Okay. Thank you for the briefing.

[0:16:48] Voice 7: My understanding is that there are about 20 per year and I certainly don't want to bog it down in complexity, but I think it would be very useful if local trust committees were actually just informed as they come in.

[0:17:07] Voice 7: And by default, they go ahead and staff deal with them. But if somebody in a local trust committee, I think you express that, that they keep up to date.

[0:17:17] Voice 7: I was particularly interested in applications for non-domestic water use which I think is

[0:17:23] Voice 7: one of them I think it would be useful for us all to understand how many of those are out there and

[0:17:30] Voice 7: you know how many there are applied for so I support the I think was number one that you

[0:17:38] Voice 7: you just inform trustees and then deal with it,

[0:17:44] Voice 7: unless a trustee asks questions.

[0:17:47] Voice 7: But to be honest, I have full confidence

[0:17:51] Voice 7: in the staff ability to deal with it.

[0:17:54] Voice 7: Okay, Trustee Graham, over to you.

[0:17:57] Voice 2: Thank you, Chair.

[0:17:58] Voice 2: As probably the island that has the most crown land,

[0:18:02] Voice 2: I'm sorry, crown water leases for aquaculture,

[0:18:05] Voice 2: The process is vague, and I think a review of the process of referrals for Crown leases would be educational to my Demand crew, and perhaps we can tighten up and provide some conversational opportunities or referral opportunities for the Local Trust Committee besides what we've had in the past.

[0:18:34] Voice 2: So, this is a good thing to be looking at.

[0:18:44] Voice 7: Trustee Elliott?

[0:18:47] Trustee Elliott: Thank you, Chair.

[0:18:49] Trustee Elliott: It's my understanding that different LTCs obviously have different levels of engagement with crown lease referrals.

[0:18:59] Trustee Elliott: And so I'm wondering if RPC, so in considering planning services delivery, can recommend a best pathway that can then be tailored by each LTC, or would that be too much work?

[0:19:18] Trustee Elliott: Because I guess the variables are the frequency of meetings for LTCs. So those that meet only every three months, such as South Pender, it's not going to be useful to have local trust committees copied on a referral that they can't respond to if the referral response needs to be done in 30 days.

[0:19:43] Trustee Elliott: But for ones that meet more frequently, such as Abriola, it would make sense to have any significant Crown lease referral on an agenda that could be then looked at and does the LTC want to give comment or not.

[0:20:00] Trustee Elliott: So is this committee able to recommend a pathway that sort of allows for regional planning managers to tailor that information for the LTCs as appropriate?

[0:20:25] Trustee Elliott: Thanks. Trustee Patrick?

[0:20:28] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, I think I thought I had shared in one of the previous times that we had talked about this, an approach from another, I forget which town, which municipality it was, but they had a sort of a screening or stepped or phase that using staff to say, well, no, this is routine.

[0:20:46] Trustee Patrick: team they just handle it versus they identify it as a crown referral that they just notify

[0:20:51] Trustee Patrick: the elected about and then there's a third one where yeah this one's a big one and we're going

[0:20:56] Trustee Patrick: to send this on to the so it allows the staff to do sort of an initial screening and i think that

[0:21:01] Trustee Patrick: sort of addresses what trustee elliott was talking about by making it a bit more custom by island by

[0:21:07] Trustee Patrick: you know staff understanding interests thanks

[0:21:12] Voice 7: and um i just comment indeed that's number two i think

[0:21:17] Voice 7: staff discretion so i just had a quick question if if it's a 30-day turnaround that is upended

[0:21:25] Voice 7: if it has to go to an ltc or it's it's the choice is that it should be put before an ltc is that

[0:21:32] Voice 7: correct stefan it

[0:21:34] Voice 1: is but it in certain circumstances uh we can request an extension

[0:21:39] Voice 1: so most decisions in government as you're aware don't happen quickly uh they just has to get

[0:21:44] Voice 1: their referrals back as soon as possible to continue their process. If there's a reason

[0:21:50] Voice 1: because you think it's a, I'll use the term media expression again, then it's not unreasonable to

[0:21:56] Voice 1: request an extension. And I would say that, you know, a 90-day extension because of the meeting

[0:22:01] Voice 1: schedule is not unreasonable.

[0:22:03] Voice 7: Okay. And just a quick follow-up and then I'll go to Trustee

[0:22:06] Voice 7: Elliott again. So of the 20 per year, of those, how many would be, let's say, significant enough

[0:22:13] Voice 7: have to go to an ltc in staffs um you know that staff think are significant enough you know for

[0:22:21] Voice 7: instance with trustee graham are there instances where they would like to have seen something more

[0:22:29] Voice 7: thoroughly and did not because staff deemed that it was kind of fairly mundane and but i i'll ask

[0:22:36] Voice 7: you to answer that and then i'll go to the trustee areas

[0:22:39] Voice 1: that's a really hard question to answer uh

[0:22:43] Voice 1: a chair bowl and there's certainly always something a brewing somewhere whether it's you

[0:22:49] Voice 1: know a bay on luskete or a beach on salt spring or on denman there's countless things around

[0:22:57] Voice 1: denman and barkley sound and stuff there's oh my gosh so many things going on there so i would say

[0:23:03] Voice 1: there's always something active that sort of meets that significant criteria but maybe i'm going to

[0:23:08] Voice 1: use my call a friend uh button here and pull in uh rpm kojima uh who has a longer experience

[0:23:18] Voice 1: perhaps in a quieter neighborhood of southern gulf islands but uh maybe his assessment for

[0:23:24] Voice 1: this type of question thanks

[0:23:26] Voice 13: stefan um yeah through the chair so the experience in the

[0:23:30] Voice 13: southern gulf islands is most of them historically anyway until the robins put the freeze on dock

[0:23:36] Voice 13: 10 years was for private docks and so they're fairly straightforward because they were allowed

[0:23:41] Voice 13: by zoning or they're not allowed by zoning or they might need a variance and then they would

[0:23:45] Voice 13: come to the or dp and then they would come to the local trust committee anyway the ones i would think

[0:23:49] Voice 13: of that might be significant or more like infrastructure projects like um um landing

[0:23:56] Voice 13: for i think of the recent um uh connected coast landing things like that um but in those cases

[0:24:03] Voice 13: as they were, the LTC were interested in expediting with them

[0:24:09] Voice 13: just as much as possible, it seemed.

[0:24:11] Voice 13: So, yeah, I think it's the aquaculture ones,

[0:24:16] Voice 13: mostly in Bain Sound, that would be of interest for LTC

[0:24:25] Voice 13: to either be more informed about or to actually provide

[0:24:29] Voice 13: a response from the LTC.

[0:24:34] Voice 7: Yeah, and my interest was the non-domestic well-use, actually.

[0:24:37] Voice 7: Right.

[0:24:38] Voice 13: Maybe William, if he's online, he could sort of explain that, what he's looking at when he's just reviewing those.

[0:24:47] Voice 7: But let's go to Trustee Elliott first, and then we can circle back. Go ahead, Toby.

[0:24:52] Voice 7: be so

[0:24:54] Trustee Elliott: rather than leaving this sort of lingering as a briefing um if the rp if rpc wants to settle

[0:25:01] Trustee Elliott: on a recommended course of action for better delivery of uh planning services i would suggest

[0:25:06] Trustee Elliott: we it sounds like we want to go with option two staff discretion um and then a motion such as

[0:25:14] Trustee Elliott: um is that is a motion like this appropriate that rpc recommends that regional planning staff

[0:25:20] Trustee Elliott: staff exercise discretion in regard to informing LTCs on the opportunity

[0:25:26] Trustee Elliott: to comment on significant Crown lease referrals

[0:25:29] Trustee Elliott: and revise procedures accordingly, something like that.

[0:25:35] Trustee Elliott: I can send that to you, Rob, if that motion is a good one.

[0:25:42] Voice 7: I think I feel that given that it's only 20,

[0:25:47] Voice 7: we should be informed about every single one,

[0:25:49] Voice 7: just even a you know a quick text and say but we're going to go ahead or we're going to put

[0:25:58] Voice 7: it on the agenda so that would be my feeling but trustee bothwick oh

[0:26:04] Voice 11: i was just gonna query uh

[0:26:06] Voice 11: trustee elliott if um that motion needs to be directed to trust council effectively so because

[0:26:14] Voice 11: our actions go through trust council if i'm not mistaken so we would be requesting or we would be

[0:26:20] Voice 11: Yeah, just that much.

[0:26:23] Voice 11: Possibly I'm wrong, but that's my...

[0:26:24] Voice 11: Okay,

[0:26:30] Voice 7: I don't see any objections.

[0:26:32] Voice 7: So Toby, why don't you send that to Rob?

[0:26:34] Voice 7: Stephan, go ahead.

[0:26:36] Voice 1: Thank you, Chair.

[0:26:38] Voice 1: I would like to just point out

[0:26:40] Voice 1: the Regional Planning Committee has a future project

[0:26:44] Voice 1: in the future project list

[0:26:45] Voice 1: as per Trust Council strategic plan

[0:26:48] Voice 1: to review all Trust Council policies

[0:26:51] Voice 1: and where appropriate amend, combine or rescind.

[0:26:53] Voice 1: so you have done your work program but unfortunately or fortunately you have a lot

[0:27:00] Voice 1: I suppose there's a lot everywhere and what we could do I don't think we're going to get to

[0:27:07] Voice 1: all of them immediately but you could prioritize this one if you would like staff to prioritize

[0:27:12] Voice 1: response returning with this particular one first I'd be happy to put that sort of in my queue of

[0:27:18] Voice 1: work to do so so because you already have trust council direction to do this as a future project

[0:27:26] Voice 1: and you may recall that last meeting where we things kind of got bogged down at the end i had

[0:27:32] Voice 1: a work program report and i requested you to pass a resolution requesting me to do that work to

[0:27:39] Voice 1: report back about that so if you don't mind holding off for a little bit i'll dig up that

[0:27:44] Voice 1: old report maybe with that recommended i had the wording all crafted up um and then i can bring

[0:27:50] Voice 1: that back to this meeting while we're meeting um and then we can sort of revisit what the best

[0:27:54] Voice 1: resolution at this moment or this particular topic is does that work with your chair that sounds

[0:27:59] Voice 7: ideal anybody want to object to that sorry that was a bit of a challenging way to put it does

[0:28:06] Voice 7: Does everybody support that?

[0:28:07] Voice 4: Do not speak linearly.

[0:28:09] Voice 7: Everybody support that?

[0:28:10] Voice 7: Yes.

[0:28:11] Voice 7: So one question, Stefan, would be pending the updated policy,

[0:28:17] Voice 7: should we or could we make a standing resolution to adopt number two per Toby's suggestion?

[0:28:25] Voice 7: But you can answer that when we circle back to it.

[0:28:28] Voice 7: Just an idea.

[0:28:30] Voice 1: Okay.

[0:28:30] Voice 1: Well, if you don't mind, Chair, I can tell you that we more or less do that as is,

[0:28:34] Voice 1: as a standing procedure anyways.

[0:28:35] Voice 1: And as

[0:28:36] Voice 1: we learn each LTC's particular desires and wishes in terms to Crown Leaks referral staff do that, their managers do, if they know an item that needs to be done, or an item that will be of particular interest.

[0:28:50] Voice 1: So we already do exercise that discretion, so we don't need further exercise.

[0:28:53] Voice 1: I think the purpose of this statement from executive committee is to enshrine a process into policy.

[0:29:00] Voice 4: And

[0:29:00] Voice 1: so that everybody understands that policy.

[0:29:02] Voice 1: But again, I'll dig up that old resolution there.

[0:29:06] Voice 7: Yeah, it's that kind of tension between wanting to know what's going on and then creating extra work that isn't necessarily warranted.

[0:29:16] Voice 7: But I do take the case, the point that especially further north, there are bigger projects with bigger impacts that really need to be considered by everybody.

[0:29:27] Voice 7: OK, so we will possibly circle back at the end of the meeting.

[0:29:31] Voice 7: So this has found its way back to the end of the meeting again.

[0:29:35] Voice 7: But I think we'll carry on for the moment.

[0:29:39] Voice 7: So the next item on the agenda was the first item.

[0:29:45] Voice 7: So 7.1, bylaw compliance and enforcement policy review.

[0:29:50] Voice 7: And I think we have done a fairly thorough job of that.

[0:29:56] Voice 7: Do you want to speak to that?

[0:30:00] Voice 7: uh warren you're still there yeah i

[0:30:06] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: believe chair that robert katima has prepared most of this

[0:30:09] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: document and he may want to wish to speak to it

[0:30:12] Voice 13: thanks warren yeah i'm prepared to just uh summarize

[0:30:15] Voice 13: the rfd chair and then um rpc can have some discussion so the purpose of this rfd is to bring

[0:30:23] Voice 13: the draft policy policy 551 and the best practices manual back to rpc um with the changes that have

[0:30:32] Voice 13: been recommended or suggested by the staff from the office of the ombudsperson so back at the

[0:30:38] Voice 13: may meeting or in your last meeting rpc did make some minor revisions to the policy and those have

[0:30:43] Voice 13: been done also requested that staff harmonize the manual with the policy and that's been done

[0:30:53] Voice 13: and then to refer both documents to the office of the ombudsperson for review and comment

[0:30:59] Voice 13: so the office of the ombudsperson came back pretty promptly um generally their positive

[0:31:06] Voice 13: their comments are very positive about both documents um they suggested some minor edits

[0:31:12] Voice 13: or changes and those have been made to the policy and they're shown in the attached

[0:31:18] Voice 13: draft of the policy using track changes um and they're summarized in the rfd

[0:31:25] Voice 13: also there was a smaller number of suggested edits to the manual and those are summarized

[0:31:31] Voice 13: in the rfd as well the one thing that wasn't incorporated was some sort of a concern raised

[0:31:39] Voice 13: by the staff at the office of the ombudsperson about the involvement of trustees under this

[0:31:45] Voice 13: policy in the enforcement process and they referred to their guidance documents that

[0:31:51] Voice 13: that emphasize maintaining a separation between elected officials and enforcement staff

[0:31:56] Voice 13: so we considered this comment and understand the concern however not recommending any further

[0:32:04] Voice 13: changes based on that you know we can think the unique nature of local trust committees

[0:32:11] Voice 13: and island communities support or warrant a policy framework through which individual LTCs

[0:32:19] Voice 13: can identify their enforcement priorities that best fit their communities while still

[0:32:27] Voice 13: not being directly involved as selected officials in investigations themselves

[0:32:34] Voice 13: so our pc is requested to review the current draft of the policy in the manual direct any further

[0:32:41] Voice 13: changes and then once satisfied to endorse both documents and forward them to trust council

[0:32:48] Voice 13: If you do so at this meeting, then the next steps would be for Trust Council to review them in September, September Trust Council meeting.

[0:32:58] Voice 13: And then at the October RPC meeting, we'll come back with an implementation plan, which is mentioned in the RFD and which we're working on.

[0:33:10] Voice 13: and then the December Trust Council, Trust Council approves on both the policy changes

[0:33:17] Voice 13: and the implementation plan and then we report back at a couple points in next year with

[0:33:27] Voice 13: monitoring and review of any metrics. Thank you Chair. Great,

[0:33:35] Voice 7: thanks Robert. I was,

[0:33:37] Voice 7: was um i thought it was very good you know the feedback from the ombuds person and the additional

[0:33:45] Voice 7: comments were good i had one question which i'll just ask quickly and then i'll move on to anybody

[0:33:51] Voice 7: else who wants to speak um they asked for 90 days to be changed to reasonable time frame

[0:33:57] Voice 7: and i did wonder about that i thought reasonable time frame reasonable to whom and um would you

[0:34:06] Voice 7: like to comment on that robert um

[0:34:09] Voice 13: well just generally sort of yeah reasonable time frame

[0:34:14] Voice 13: would be considered something that's um reasonable to an average person um and i think the comment

[0:34:23] Voice 13: about overly prescriptive the 90 days was overly prescriptive there may be circumstances where

[0:34:29] Voice 13: it could be extended or shortened based on the circuit based on those individual circumstances

[0:34:34] Voice 13: answers to give a bit of flexibility okay

[0:34:37] Voice 7: okay trustee elliot and then trustee baldrick thank

[0:34:45] Trustee Elliott: you chair um so i have a couple of questions as well um one is about the recommendation to change

[0:34:54] Trustee Elliott: the 2.12 anonymous complaints so i thought this was a pretty

[0:35:05] Trustee Elliott: established practice not to accept anonymous complaints but where would for what reason

[0:35:12] Trustee Elliott: would policy allow investigations uh without a complaint and i'm assuming i think i know the

[0:35:20] Trustee Elliott: answer but just so we're clear so

[0:35:21] Voice 13: yes it's where those it's a it's recognizing that this and there's

[0:35:27] Voice 13: a other policy that says files can be opened without a complaint so where there's a threat to

[0:35:35] Voice 13: in the environment health and safety

[0:35:40] Voice 13: the other ones and advertised commercial unlawful commercial uses so the comment was to

[0:35:50] Voice 13: align those two so they're not potentially being read as being in conflict with each other

[0:35:58] Trustee Elliott: I have a follow-up because I don't think they're in conflict. Because a complaint, if a complaint can't be anonymous, a complaint is something that triggers an investigation and it has a name and a person so that bylaw enforcement can follow up.

[0:36:17] Trustee Elliott: Something that is investigated that is not a complaint, let's say by direction of the local trust committee, or there's an advertisement by Airbnb, that is not an anonymous complaint. It's by policy, a proactive investigation.

[0:36:39] Trustee Elliott: investigation so that would not be i don't think the two are congruent either it's a complaint that

[0:36:46] Trustee Elliott: has a name on it or it's by policy through another method um and i'm not really understanding why the

[0:36:56] Trustee Elliott: anonymous why that goes with the no anonymous complaints will be accepted yeah

[0:37:02] Voice 13: i think what

[0:37:02] Voice 13: What the Ombudsperson's Office staff were thinking about is how...

[0:37:06] Voice 7: Robert, you're

[0:37:07] Voice 13: a little bit quiet.

[0:37:09] Voice 7: Okay.

[0:37:10] Voice 7: Yeah, thanks.

[0:37:11] Voice 7: Thanks.

[0:37:11] Voice 7: I

[0:37:11] Voice 13: think what the staff were thinking about, if I could read into their comment, was that

[0:37:17] Voice 13: one of these circumstances where a file can be opened without a complaint is brought to

[0:37:24] Voice 13: the attention of by-law enforcement by someone anonymously.

[0:37:35] Voice 7: Okay.

[0:37:36] Voice 7: Trustee Borthwick?

[0:37:38] Voice 11: Yeah.

[0:37:39] Voice 11: I had also had a note about the anonymous complaint point and I and I and I get what you're getting at, Robert.

[0:37:48] Voice 11: But I would make the argument that that's not a complaint.

[0:37:51] Voice 11: If something's been brought to there, if someone if someone is not willing to put their name and outline what the specific complaint is,

[0:37:59] Voice 11: if it gets brought to their attention somehow um it's that that wouldn't to me uh meet the

[0:38:10] Voice 11: boundary for for a complaint that wouldn't be defined as a complaint and certainly like

[0:38:14] Voice 11: everything that trustee la was talking about in terms of you know proactive enforcement

[0:38:18] Voice 11: also not a complaint that that's a that's a separate category of investigation um so yeah i'd

[0:38:26] Voice 11: be um that's a a fairly speculative situation i don't and perhaps uh perhaps warren can give us

[0:38:36] Voice 11: you know some anecdotal evidence of people sort of giving him anonymous tips through his door

[0:38:44] Voice 11: but um you know i i don't think we need necessarily need to make that a specific

[0:38:50] Voice 11: proviso would be my argument um and i did have some other little bits and pieces but i

[0:38:54] Voice 11: And I think maybe it's useful to stay on this just until we chase it down.

[0:39:00] Voice 7: Thanks. Trustee Patrick?

[0:39:07] Trustee Patrick: I have a different question. And mine is more related to, I guess it's the letter.

[0:39:16] Trustee Patrick: Once, when a file's opened, a letter is sent out that, I understand sort of the legal nature of it, but an investigation hasn't occurred yet.

[0:39:35] Trustee Patrick: They're being kind of informed that a file's been opened and there will be an investigation.

[0:39:40] Trustee Patrick: investigation, but talking to people who receive these letters, it's, it is abrupt. And I know that

[0:39:51] Trustee Patrick: bylaw enforcement is intended to be abrupt, but an investigation hasn't occurred yet. So there may

[0:39:58] Trustee Patrick: not be a mistake. And I'll take on Salt Spring recently, there's been a number of files opened

[0:40:05] Trustee Patrick: on data from the registry, and some of it is the registration, either the address was left blank

[0:40:13] Trustee Patrick: or something of that nature. It could have been a mistake. I mean, there's a difference between

[0:40:19] Trustee Patrick: someone who's legitimately operating illegally and someone who may have made a mistake on

[0:40:25] Trustee Patrick: entering some data into the BC registry site. So it's the abruptness of the first letter and that

[0:40:35] Trustee Patrick: there hasn't been an investigation there hasn't been an outcome and that it be to me how could

[0:40:41] Trustee Patrick: that be a bit softer without you know being too soft I don't is that through this process or is

[0:40:48] Trustee Patrick: that just the manual or operations would

[0:40:56] Voice 7: anybody so we're changing our horses in midstream we were

[0:41:02] Voice 7: dealing with the anonymous complaints and we've jumped to the letter so if you don't mind Laura

[0:41:08] Voice 7: we'll just park the letter for a minute and see if we can close out the anonymous complaint issue

[0:41:13] Voice 7: is that okay sure okay uh trustee campbell are you going to speak on the anonymous complaint issue

[0:41:22] Voice 3: yeah i just i think um i think that uh maybe a little bit uh like rpm kojima was saying um

[0:41:34] Voice 3: Um, it's a, there's, there's a bit of uniqueness to navigating things in, in the Gulf Islands.

[0:41:42] Voice 3: Um, and I know that, uh, anonymous, not accepting anonymous complaints has been a pretty decent

[0:41:54] Voice 3: tool for helping address things with residents on Pender.

[0:42:01] Voice 3: um when people like to come and complain to you at the grocery store the gas station or wherever

[0:42:08] Voice 3: they go and and being able to tell them you can make it come you can make a complaint to just you

[0:42:15] Voice 3: know contact um uh bylaw enforcement and and tell them what the issue is and many people

[0:42:25] Voice 3: people if they can give an anonymous complaint they will just do that and skip ever interacting

[0:42:36] Voice 3: with their neighbor so they will never go but once they know that they have to put their name to it

[0:42:43] Voice 3: you then can say to them why don't you just have a talk with your neighbor and it's so i i do think

[0:42:51] Voice 3: think that that there is a value to not accepting anonymous complaints in the type of living

[0:43:00] Voice 3: conditions that we have on on the on the gulf islands because you're able to sometimes mitigate

[0:43:07] Voice 3: some of this stuff before it even has to become a file but if they were are given the opportunity to

[0:43:14] Voice 3: to make an anonymous complaint, they will take that every time.

[0:43:23] Voice 7: Thanks, Aaron.

[0:43:26] Voice 7: So, Warren, you have your hand up.

[0:43:29] Voice 7: Go ahead.

[0:43:30] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Yes, Chair.

[0:43:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So to address the issue of the anonymous complaints

[0:43:34] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and when they're actually complaining about something that is serious,

[0:43:38] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: which is what I believe the Ombudsperson is trying to address,

[0:43:44] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: so to just give you the anecdote from yesterday,

[0:43:47] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Yesterday, I went to Salt Spring to look at a property where we received a very detailed

[0:43:50] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: complaint from someone who wished to remain anonymous.

[0:43:54] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: They had a number of concerns, including health and safety concerns.

[0:43:59] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So in these circumstances, what we do, I mean, we tell them we can't accept the anonymous

[0:44:04] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: complaint.

[0:44:05] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: We need a written complaint from a person.

[0:44:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: What we do is we go to the property and look at the property from the road.

[0:44:14] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So if the bylaw officer can see some serious health and safety issue or septic issue or work in a development permit area, then Trust Council policy allows us to open a file.

[0:44:27] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So your policy has already addressed that.

[0:44:30] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: We don't have a proper written complaint to open a file, but if the bylaw officer can go there and see something that is of concern, environmental, health and safety, then based on Trust Council policies, we can still open a file.

[0:44:44] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So yesterday I went to that property, viewed it from the road, and there's nothing that I could see right now that's going to allow me to open a file based on Trust Council policies without a written complaint.

[0:44:54] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So that's how we're addressing these issues.

[0:44:57] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: It's just the bylaw officer, if they can go and see that there's a contravention, then we can proceed.

[0:45:03] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And then we're still adhering to that policy where we won't accept anonymous complaints, because very often people are using anonymous complaints to harass other people.

[0:45:13] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Yeah.

[0:45:18] Voice 7: Thanks, Warren. I've just put myself on the list here. I feel very uncomfortable about the anonymous complaints because, you know, I've dealt recently with something where somebody was technically in contravention, but actually was doing no harm at all.

[0:45:36] Voice 7: and and it's ended up it is you know technically a health and safety issue but it's created a lot

[0:45:46] Voice 7: of trouble and problems and we do live on the islands with things that are you know technically

[0:45:53] Voice 7: a problem but not in actual fact so the idea of an anonymous complaint that could trigger

[0:46:01] Voice 7: trigger a health and safety issue um is is a bit worrying and i mean i'm thinking about anonymous

[0:46:08] Voice 7: so warren you know who the person is i mean they can't actually slide a note under your door

[0:46:15] Voice 7: so well

[0:46:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: actually sometimes they literally do or they

[0:46:20] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: yeah they

[0:46:21] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: will send things by email but

[0:46:22] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: there's no guarantee that that email address is real

[0:46:24] Voice 7: yeah and

[0:46:26] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: there are times i i can't confirm

[0:46:28] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: their name even with the email address that they've provided so because people will

[0:46:34] Voice 7: go ahead

[0:46:35] Voice 7: i i feel i feel that you know basically the system guarantees anonymity in the sense that

[0:46:43] Voice 7: no sorry not anonymity it guarantees confidentiality does it or what happens to that

[0:46:51] Voice 7: that person's name beyond it being on the complaint which you react to so

[0:46:58] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: chair doth it's just it's

[0:47:00] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: not disclosed to anyone this is kept confidential in the file

[0:47:04] Voice 7: forever and ever or if you know you

[0:47:07] Voice 7: go to a legal case or whatever can it become known then yes

[0:47:13] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: chair it can so if through disclosure

[0:47:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the lawyers determine that it must be released or if a judge determines that's going to be released

[0:47:21] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: least for that court case and proper legal disclosure, then at that time it could become

[0:47:26] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: known to the complainant. I'm sorry, to the property owner who's subject to the legal action.

[0:47:34] Voice 7: So what would be a key step? Like how far can it go before that could happen?

[0:47:42] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Well, it happens in those cases, especially where the local trust committee is going to take,

[0:47:48] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: has filed the notice of claim in BC Supreme Court. In those cases, complainants' names are

[0:47:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: often released because we have this major court case that we're pursuing and in the end either

[0:48:01] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the judge is ordering release of the name or the lawyers say no we must release the name through

[0:48:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: discovery okay

[0:48:08] Voice 7: thanks for that trustee gorthwick yeah

[0:48:14] Voice 11: um so yeah and i i like i really appreciate

[0:48:17] Voice 11: that like um you know we want we want bylaw enforcement to have teeth um but we also want

[0:48:23] Voice 11: this this system to be fair um so i want to make sure that we're sort of supporting that and my

[0:48:29] Voice 11: so my uh again i'd sort of come back to the point where um if someone is not submitting a written

[0:48:40] Voice 11: you know identified complaint i just wouldn't class it as a complaint and i'm gonna indulge in

[0:48:48] Voice 11: in my possibly annoying propensity for hyperbole here,

[0:48:55] Voice 11: if, for example, I hired a plane to fly above Warren's office

[0:48:59] Voice 11: and sky write that someone was cutting trees in a DPA on X road,

[0:49:09] Voice 11: Warren would have the choice at this point,

[0:49:12] Voice 11: in the same way as that when Warren drives down any road on any island,

[0:49:15] Voice 11: he is you know if he if he notices something that's then his his initiative and his duty as

[0:49:23] Voice 11: as a bylaw enforcement officer to to potentially commence an investigation um you know that not

[0:49:29] Voice 11: and not that we want to encourage like roaming the streets for for for by rogue bylaw infractions but

[0:49:36] Voice 11: i think my my point would be that there are going to be times when warren is going to initiate an

[0:49:43] Voice 11: an investigation without a specific complaint, be it at the proactive direction of an LTC,

[0:49:50] Voice 11: be it that, you know, he gets tipped off in some mystical way, a robin can show up and sing it to

[0:49:57] Voice 11: him over his morning coffee, could come through any number of ways, which can be difficult to

[0:50:02] Voice 11: verify. However, at that point, it is about staff's discretion to whether they believe that

[0:50:10] Voice 11: There's a pressing concern. And my point is that there's going to be times when that happens and whether or not he gets a message in a bottle or skywriting or singing Robin, any of these things, what's happening there is not at the reception of a complaint.

[0:50:27] Voice 11: It is then Warren or another bylaw enforcement officer enacting their taking initiative in a way that we already prescribe elsewhere in policy.

[0:50:40] Voice 11: So my point here would be that I don't think that we need to make a specific allowance for anonymous complaints of any kind.

[0:50:48] Voice 11: We do not accept anonymous complaints whatsoever.

[0:50:50] Voice 11: If you are going to submit a written complaint, it has got to be identified.

[0:50:54] Voice 11: justified um there are but this is allowing for also that there's times when warren is going to

[0:51:01] Voice 11: notice things or not sorry warren i shouldn't single you out that way uh there they're going

[0:51:06] Voice 11: to be times when bylaw are going to you know notice things regardless of their own initiative

[0:51:12] Voice 11: um i just don't think we need to make an allowance in this for for anonymous complaints that or that

[0:51:18] Voice 11: even implies that we allow anonymous complaints because i think that does bear a lot of you know

[0:51:23] Voice 11: trouble. And obviously, I'm not advocating for people to start skywriting above

[0:51:32] Voice 11: by law office. But, you know, I just don't think we need to capture that in policy in that way.

[0:51:38] Voice 11: And I open that to the rest of RPC. But that's just my feeling is that this is they don't meet

[0:51:45] Voice 11: the definition of a complaint to my mind. At that point, a complaint is defined as being something

[0:51:50] Voice 11: thing that is formally submitted.

[0:51:53] Voice 7: Okay, thanks. I'll just speak briefly. I'm inclined to agree

[0:51:58] Voice 7: with you, Sam, that in this context, a complaint is something that's very formal. And what we're

[0:52:07] Voice 7: saying is you cannot make a formal complaint anonymously. So indeed, if you meet somebody in

[0:52:17] Voice 7: the grocery store or you deliver it by bottle that's an entirely different thing um so i but

[0:52:25] Voice 7: i don't know how to how we can implement what we have a general feeling about other than by leaving

[0:52:33] Voice 7: 2.1.2 anonymous complaints are not accepted that

[0:52:37] Voice 11: well that's what i would suggest is we just remove

[0:52:39] Voice 11: that second clause i don't think

[0:52:41] Voice 11: it's necessary because and this is another thing so there's

[0:52:45] Voice 11: There's there's other things that might lead by law to start an investigation that don't that come from outside of them.

[0:52:51] Voice 11: If, for example, someone had an illegal abattoir and a runoff became clear in the street, that would be a clue that was, you know, that is a thing that happened that led by law to understand that it was happening.

[0:53:07] Voice 11: But it wasn't a complaint specifically.

[0:53:10] Voice 11: specifically um yeah i think just

[0:53:13] Voice 11: remove the remove any reference to to anonymous complaints

[0:53:16] Voice 11: policy already allows for things for for for warrant or for bylaw to investigate things

[0:53:23] Voice 11: without a complaint um let's capture the nuance of that in that policy not in in our complaint

[0:53:30] Voice 11: process okay

[0:53:32] Voice 7: anybody else i think we were reaching a conclusion here does anybody else want to speak

[0:53:38] Voice 7: to this Toby has stepped out for a moment and I believe that this was her feeling too

[0:53:46] Voice 7: so what would be involved Robert in just removing that addition from the back of 2.1.2

[0:53:54] Voice 13: just a direction from the RPC whether by resolution or consensus that that insertion be

[0:54:02] Voice 13: be removed in 2.1.2 okay

[0:54:05] Voice 7: uh does anybody object to that like a straw poll for lack of a better

[0:54:10] Voice 7: word does anybody will we uh do that then would anybody like to make a motion to do that i'm

[0:54:19] Voice 7: looking at you sam yep

[0:54:21] Voice 11: um i guess the only thing i would just ask is and this is always just sort

[0:54:25] Voice 11: of me trying to do best practices here uh and this would be i guess directed to to um robert

[0:54:31] Voice 11: kojima or or warren um do you have any like really specific compelling reason why we should keep this

[0:54:38] Voice 11: in or is or am i correct in saying that like the the uh those other those other sources of

[0:54:47] Voice 11: information on possible infractions should be captured in policy elsewhere this am i completely

[0:54:53] Voice 11: off base or is there something

[0:54:54] Voice 11: specific that i'm missing i guess well

[0:54:56] Voice 13: thanks justy worthwick and

[0:54:59] Voice 13: through the chair so no i was originally drafted without that insertion there so um it was raised

[0:55:05] Voice 13: by the staff person from the ombudsperson's office and you know without talking to her further

[0:55:13] Voice 13: investigating it further my thinking would be that she had identified a potential inconsistency

[0:55:19] Voice 13: there okay and um that was the basis of her of her suggestion um you know and worst case scenario

[0:55:29] Voice 13: that i can think of is you know there's an anonymous tip let's call it a tip not a complaint

[0:55:34] Voice 13: um bylaw enforcement opened you know like warren said and um you know bylaw officer drives by see

[0:55:42] Voice 13: yes it's working the development permit area we don't need a formal complaint to open this file

[0:55:46] Voice 13: go through the whole process end up going to litigation for example goes all the way you know

[0:55:52] Voice 13: they don't comply um it could be something that the opposing council latches onto right oh you

[0:56:00] Voice 13: have a policy that says you don't accept how did how did uh violent enforcement manager war

[0:56:04] Voice 13: dingman how did you uh find out about this that's just yeah that's

[0:56:08] Voice 4: the only thing i could really

[0:56:09] Voice 13: come and come up with okay

[0:56:12] Voice 7: and uh the other option is like where is where does the policy

[0:56:17] Voice 7: what is the number sorry uh rob could you go to the page uh it's page 25 that has the actual

[0:56:25] Voice 7: content on it um yeah and maybe zoom in a tiny bit yeah so we're all thinking about the same thing

[0:56:35] Voice 7: so the policy that allows a complaint to be opened sorry a file to be opened without a complaint

[0:56:43] Voice 7: what number is that could we reference that explicitly would that help rather than remove it

[0:56:54] Voice 7: robert yeah

[0:56:58] Voice 13: that that could help yeah i'm just looking to see what the exact number is here

[0:57:02] Voice 13: it's

[0:57:11] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: those policies within section 2.2 chair 2.2

[0:57:14] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: directly below it

[0:57:15] Voice 13: yeah yeah

[0:57:24] Voice 7: sorry that was a bit

[0:57:26] Voice 7: yeah i mean would would that be an alternative to just removing it to

[0:57:32] Voice 13: cross-reference that

[0:57:33] Voice 13: yeah explicitly yep that would be one alternative um yeah 2.2 refers to written complaints we could

[0:57:42] Voice 13: say anonymous written complaints are not accepted but then that further narrows it down you know

[0:57:47] Voice 13: They have to call or something.

[0:57:50] Voice 13: My suggestion is just as Trustee Borthwick suggests,

[0:57:55] Voice 13: the resolution wording was just remove that insertion

[0:57:59] Voice 13: and go back to what was there originally.

[0:58:02] Voice 7: Yeah, I favor that because indeed, you know,

[0:58:05] Voice 7: you quickly move on to the other circumstances.

[0:58:09] Voice 7: Okay, Stephan, go ahead.

[0:58:12] Voice 1: Thanks, Chair.

[0:58:12] Voice 1: Just a reminder that this has been cross-referenced in the manual.

[0:58:17] Voice 1: So if you're going to amend policy, we'll amend the manual accordingly.

[0:58:21] Voice 7: OK, I think we are landing on removing that addition and leaving it at that.

[0:58:28] Voice 7: I think this we've talked about this quite a bit, but it is kind of an important concept, especially in the islands.

[0:58:36] Voice 7: And, you know, I think it was useful to really discuss this.

[0:58:41] Voice 7: So, Trustee Borthwick, are you prepared to make a motion?

[0:58:44] Voice 7: motion yes

[0:58:46] Voice 11: um and i have not sent this into rob but i can do so if you'd like um i move that the

[0:58:57] Voice 11: regional planning committee uh request staff uh remove uh the second clause of draft policy 2.1.2

[0:59:11] Voice 11: in the bylaw compliance and enforcement draft policy.

[0:59:23] Voice 7: Okay, that works for me.

[0:59:25] Voice 7: Anybody want to comment or talk to it?

[0:59:31] Voice 7: Press the I-it.

[0:59:34] Trustee Elliott: And do we need to add and update

[0:59:37] Trustee Elliott: the best practices manual accordingly?

[0:59:45] Voice 11: That's a good question.

[0:59:47] Voice 11: Director Cermak, do we need to do that

[0:59:49] Voice 11: or will you guys capture it?

[0:59:50] Voice 1: It's best to capture it.

[0:59:52] Voice 1: It'll be done de facto,

[0:59:53] Voice 1: but it's always nice to see the resolution thank you toby okay

[0:59:57] Voice 7: trustee campbell

[1:00:02] Voice 7: Okay, fair enough. Thanks. You're a bit whispery, but I think I got the gist of it on the

[1:00:11] Voice 7: closed captioning. Thanks. So do you want to read that, Sam, and confirm that it's

[1:00:18] Voice 7: as expected? And thanks, Will.

[1:00:23] Voice 11: Yes, I move that the Regional Planning Committee request staff to

[1:00:26] Voice 11: remove the second clause of draft policy 2.1.2 in the by-law compliance and enforcement draft

[1:00:32] Voice 11: Graph Policy 5.5.1, and update the best practices manual accordingly.

[1:00:39] Voice 7: And seconded by Aaron, I believe.

[1:00:43] Voice 7: Okay, anybody want to speak to this further?

[1:00:49] Voice 7: Nope.

[1:00:50] Voice 7: Okay, all those in favor, raise your hands and lower your hands.

[1:01:02] Voice 7: Anybody not in favor?

[1:01:06] Voice 7: Nope.

[1:01:07] Voice 7: So that passes.

[1:01:08] Voice 7: Thank you.

[1:01:11] Voice 7: Okay, right.

[1:01:12] Voice 7: Right. Back to the tone of the letter that goes out to inform somebody that a complaint has been received or a file has been opened.

[1:01:26] Voice 7: Do you want to go back to that, Laura, and expand on what you just said?

[1:01:34] Trustee Patrick: Sure. And I have a letter.

[1:01:37] Trustee Patrick: I have someone shared a letter, one of the letters with me.

[1:01:40] Trustee Patrick: And it doesn't open with a file's been opened and there will be an investigation.

[1:01:44] Trustee Patrick: It opens with, you know, we've become aware that there's an operation of a non-permitted short-term rental. That's the first paragraph. And I believe that came from, you know, from the BC registry. So it's, when that's not, like I said, it sort of is a very accusatory right from the opening where an investigation may find there was an error, a mistake made, and that there isn't an infraction.

[1:02:10] Trustee Patrick: so that's my question letter number one what's the tone okay robert go ahead thank you chair

[1:02:19] Voice 13: um so part of the implementation plan is to review and rewrite all of the draft letter

[1:02:27] Voice 13: templates that go out um what the policy says is that where there's a potential

[1:02:35] Voice 13: potential, it's 3.5. The respondent will receive a notice letter providing a summary of the issue,

[1:02:42] Voice 13: contact details of the assigned officer and encouraging the respondent to contact the

[1:02:46] Voice 13: officer. So that's kind of the policy guidance. But like I said, part of the implementation will

[1:02:53] Voice 13: be to review and redraft or create new format, template letters.

[1:03:03] Voice 7: Great. Is that actually noted someplace in our action log or on the project template?

[1:03:09] Voice 7: Just to be specific so that people can point to it and say all these letters would be,

[1:03:15] Voice 7: templates would be reformatted. Okay, Stefan, go ahead.

[1:03:24] Voice 1: Thank you, Chair. I don't believe it is specifically, but as said, you know,

[1:03:29] Voice 1: we recognize the implementation of this project is very important how we do it. We recognize that

[1:03:35] Voice 1: The purpose statement of the project charter sort of expresses to build trust, et cetera.

[1:03:41] Voice 1: And we are also in the process of implementing CityView for bylaw enforcement.

[1:03:48] Voice 1: It's that bylaw enforcement portal.

[1:03:50] Voice 1: And part of that process is to update all, to sort of create all those templates.

[1:03:56] Voice 1: And hence why we have sort of suggested a bit of a delay in the implementation plan

[1:04:02] Voice 1: as opposed to presenting it to you at this meeting.

[1:04:05] Voice 1: uh waiting to see how the progress of city view is going so that those things come together

[1:04:09] Voice 1: and in october and we can discuss some of those implementation plan items so we're sort of merging

[1:04:15] Voice 1: those two projects and those two actions together to achieve the broader goal of such things as

[1:04:22] Voice 1: these letters uh

[1:04:23] Voice 7: will you bring those drafts back to us at some stage for even an informal review

[1:04:30] Voice 1: that's a great question certainly not uh envisioned that we would share template letters

[1:04:35] Voice 1: Those are pretty operational in nature.

[1:04:37] Voice 1: However, if the RPC wishes to see some of them, I wouldn't want the RPC to unduly tell staff what to say, if you know what I mean.

[1:04:46] Voice 1: But certainly, if

[1:04:47] Voice 1: it's striking the tone and part of the implementation, if it's achieving the goals of the projects, I think we could at least share a glimpse at those.

[1:04:55] Voice 7: Yeah, I think that would be a good idea, even just to check the tone, because it is the sort of leading edge of all of this.

[1:05:04] Voice 7: like the first time you get one of those letters it's going to cause you to you know sharp intake

[1:05:11] Voice 7: of breath and it may be your first ever experience of bylaw enforcement anywhere and in the islands

[1:05:19] Voice 7: so it is quite important even from a communications strategy perspective so I personally would like to

[1:05:28] Voice 7: to see those draft templates, please.

[1:05:36] Voice 7: Okay, Robert, go ahead, yeah.

[1:05:38] Voice 13: Thank you, Chair.

[1:05:40] Voice 13: I was just gonna note that in the project charter

[1:05:42] Voice 13: under the deliverables, one of them is updates

[1:05:45] Voice 13: and revisions to bylaw enforcement forms,

[1:05:47] Voice 13: templates and documents.

[1:05:49] Voice 13: So it's sort of broadly captured there,

[1:05:51] Voice 13: but certainly we're aware

[1:05:53] Voice 13: that the letters

[1:05:54] Voice 13: is a key element of that.

[1:05:56] Voice 7: Yeah, okay, I think that's good enough.

[1:05:59] Voice 7: Does anybody else want to raise anything here about this

[1:06:03] Voice 7: or are we happy enough that those templates will be reviewed and will come back to us for a check

[1:06:09] Voice 7: on tone more than content perhaps but really on the impression that they make anybody want to

[1:06:18] Voice 7: raise anything i don't see any hands so i think that's good enough and so moving on are there

[1:06:26] Voice 7: other aspects of this document that anybody wants to raise okay trustee forthwick go ahead

[1:06:37] Voice 7: have

[1:06:38] Voice 11: um so i just and i'm i'm generally pretty pretty happy i had a couple of bits and pieces

[1:06:43] Voice 11: uh that i had noted in my initial pass and then i've gone back and read through in my subsequent

[1:06:49] Voice 11: passes and realized i just was misreading things so uh which is lovely um it's nice to know it's

[1:06:56] Voice 11: user error um the the i did want to kind of revisit the the reasonable time frame um thing

[1:07:04] Voice 11: and i i totally take the the point that um uh it's good not to necessarily be like too specific

[1:07:12] Voice 11: um but uh i would just suggest that possibly people who don't otherwise live in this world

[1:07:21] Voice 11: um might not have a good frame of reference for what a reasonable time period of time was so so

[1:07:26] Voice 11: in terms of like you know you know we we might think that there's a specific what that specifically

[1:07:32] Voice 11: means but but i think even if we just put in parentheses like a rough estimate of like this

[1:07:36] Voice 11: could be three months this could be you know to give to give some frame of reference would be

[1:07:43] Voice 11: useful because reasonable time as as uh as i think uh uh chair bowl and laid out can be wildly

[1:07:51] Voice 11: widely defined by by people on the islands and especially if you're unfamiliar with the process

[1:07:57] Voice 11: I just think it would be useful I I I take the point that it's good not to be

[1:08:01] Voice 11: too specific but I do think it would be good to lay out some um uh just a a rough ballpark

[1:08:09] Voice 11: to give people a a framework to work within um and I is I think it was Robert Kojima was

[1:08:15] Voice 11: speaking to that before but um yeah thanks

[1:08:20] Voice 7: uh anybody got anything to add to that uh

[1:08:28] Voice 7: Tresieria, go ahead.

[1:08:31] Trustee Elliott: So I'm still trying to find it where it is in Policy 5.5.1,

[1:08:37] Trustee Elliott: but in the Best Practices Manual, I guess what caught my attention is

[1:08:44] Trustee Elliott: it's regarding collecting evidence for a potential contravention.

[1:08:52] Trustee Elliott: Okay, so now I found it.

[1:08:54] Trustee Elliott: Page 44, a new file has been opened.

[1:08:57] Trustee Elliott: um so in this step step three it says the officer will take photos of the property and any possible

[1:09:03] Trustee Elliott: contravention and gather details about what has been built or what is happening on the property

[1:09:07] Trustee Elliott: that might have led to a complaint by asking questions and investigating um so i i wanted to

[1:09:14] Trustee Elliott: ask about the practice which i think warren you've um expressed a few times in in different

[1:09:26] Trustee Elliott: meetings that that we've had with um you know town halls or with specifically with the mudge issue

[1:09:32] Trustee Elliott: where access you know to remote or uh locations is a challenge and which you've said that

[1:09:42] Trustee Elliott: um respondents or um subjects of a complaint can produce photographs or other evidence

[1:09:51] Trustee Elliott: um to say well this is not an issue or here's the survey line that that shows you know where

[1:10:02] Trustee Elliott: my woodshed is built and and so and i believe you'd said that they can confirm through evidence

[1:10:10] Trustee Elliott: produced by themselves that um you know there's substance to a come back a complaint or not

[1:10:21] Trustee Elliott: But I don't see that addressed in the policy. And so I'm just wondering if we've decided to change that practice and just do strictly, you know, evidence that's collected by the bylaw enforcement teams or not. Thank you.

[1:10:44] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Would you like me to answer that chair or try?

[1:10:47] Voice 7: Yes, please go ahead.

[1:10:50] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So I'm actually not 100% certain what the question is, but when we're doing an investigation, we can collect any relevant evidence, and that can be evidence from the complainant, it can be evidence from aerial photos, it's actually very broad.

[1:11:14] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: what we're doing for the majority of the local trusted areas

[1:11:17] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: who that have a bend by law,

[1:11:19] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: we're collecting evidence for an adjudicator

[1:11:21] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: if it goes that far.

[1:11:23] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: It's up to an adjudicator to decide

[1:11:25] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: what evidence can be collected

[1:11:26] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: or he can accept or she can accept as the adjudicator.

[1:11:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So whatever relevant evidence

[1:11:35] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that an adjudicator is going to accept,

[1:11:38] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that's what we may collect.

[1:11:41] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So

[1:11:41] Voice 7: if I was to turn it on its head and correct me if I'm wrong, Trustee Elliott, I think what you were asking was, is it possible that you might have enough evidence without actually visiting the site provided by the complainant, the respondent, et cetera, et cetera?

[1:11:59] Voice 7: Okay, just sorry, if

[1:12:02] Trustee Elliott: I can follow up, because it seems like the question was unclear. The policy does not state that any evidence may be collected, including from the property owner themselves.

[1:12:17] Trustee Elliott: selves. And the forward-facing manual says the officer will take photos of the property in any

[1:12:25] Trustee Elliott: possible contravention. So that is a very specific direction that is being advertised to the public

[1:12:32] Trustee Elliott: as this is the process. The officer will take photos. There's no ambiguity about that, whereas

[1:12:39] Trustee Elliott: the policy does not state that the officer will take photos. So I'm just suggesting either the

[1:12:45] Trustee Elliott: The policy needs to be amended to say evidence will be collected through a range of means,

[1:12:51] Trustee Elliott: which may be photographs from the officer, which may be provided by the property owner,

[1:12:58] Trustee Elliott: surveys, aerial, whatever.

[1:12:59] Trustee Elliott: And then the forward-facing manual needs to reflect that there is a range of evidence

[1:13:04] Trustee Elliott: that might be used.

[1:13:06] Trustee Elliott: Thank you.

[1:13:08] Voice 7: Thanks.

[1:13:11] Voice 7: Okay, Robert, you had your hand up and then back to Warren.

[1:13:14] Voice 13: Right.

[1:13:15] Voice 13: Thank you, Chair.

[1:13:15] Voice 13: area consistent with what trustee elliott was just saying so in the policy section 3.6 on page 26 of

[1:13:23] Voice 13: the agenda packages uh you know the officer will investigate the potential violation including and

[1:13:29] Voice 13: then a whole list of other um a list of specifics things the the officer will look at and so that's

[1:13:36] Voice 13: more um comprehensive than doesn't say anything specific about going to the site taking photos

[1:13:43] Voice 13: so yeah this might be an instance where the manual has not been updated consistent with the

[1:13:51] Voice 13: policy so we can we can make that that change to the manual okay

[1:13:58] Voice 7: good spot trustee elliott

[1:13:59] Voice 7: so what would you suggest uh robert you're saying that that item number three

[1:14:10] Voice 7: you'll make it match the policy yeah correct yes

[1:14:14] Voice 13: we would uh reword the manual so that it's

[1:14:17] Voice 13: it's less prescriptive i guess is the word yeah

[1:14:21] Voice 7: it's kind of gather information rather than take

[1:14:23] Voice 7: photos yeah uh trustee elliott does that answer your question yep that's great thank you okay

[1:14:34] Voice 7: warren go ahead so

[1:14:39] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: chair um ultimately it's at the discretion of the bylaw officer what

[1:14:43] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: evidence they collect right it's their task and i don't know if we you know if it'll make

[1:14:51] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: make people more comfortable to see the words relevant evidence within the policies or the

[1:14:57] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: manual. But in the end, it's at the discretion of staff. It's at the discretion of the person

[1:15:03] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: investigating that complaint for that file to determine what relevant evidence is going to be

[1:15:10] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: collected. And in the end, it can be difficult to prescribe it. Putting in the

[1:15:17] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: references to

[1:15:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: to allowing, you know, more flexibility with property owners

[1:15:23] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: who are uncomfortable with site inspections.

[1:15:27] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: That was the intention of having the clause in the enforcement policy saying,

[1:15:34] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: okay, if you provide us with enough evidence, then, yeah, we won't do,

[1:15:40] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: we don't really need to do a site inspection or, you know,

[1:15:46] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: we can do everything with what the property owner provides.

[1:15:49] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: It's there for flexibility, maximum flexibility, because there are people who are really uncomfortable with, you know, any enforcement person coming to private property.

[1:16:01] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And, you know, they acknowledge that.

[1:16:02] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And if someone can provide surveys and all kinds of evidence that prove that there's no contravention, then great.

[1:16:08] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Then there's no need to go and do site inspection if that evidence can be provided, especially by professional reports like a survey.

[1:16:19] Voice 7: Okay, thanks. If I read that item number three on page 44, the last sentence is actually the most relevant in my mind.

[1:16:29] Voice 7: It just says the officer is there to gather information only, not to make a decision.

[1:16:34] Voice 7: But anyway, are you happy? Trustee Elliott, go ahead.

[1:16:37] Voice 7: Yeah,

[1:16:40] Trustee Elliott: and thank you for clarifying. I think, I mean, I totally agree that it's the duty of officers to assess or to determine what kind of evidence is satisfactory. What I'm saying is there's only one kind of evidence that looks like it's being proposed will be used, and that is officer inspection and photographs.

[1:17:03] Trustee Elliott: Um, I'm wondering if 3.6 does need another clause to state exactly what Warren just stated that, um, you know, officers will determine the, um, you know, it's at the discretion of the officers to, to collect evidence to substantiate a complaint.

[1:17:32] Trustee Elliott: complaint, which could be a range of, what do you call it, materials. It's like reviewing

[1:17:45] Trustee Elliott: all, reviewing evidence gathered from a site inspection and relevant bylaws. That might

[1:17:51] Trustee Elliott: be the place. 3.6.4, it specifies evidence gathered from a site inspection. If the site

[1:17:59] Trustee Elliott: is not inspected how else is that evidence substantiating the complaint or not it might be

[1:18:07] Trustee Elliott: provided by the property owner and i think that's missing uh

[1:18:18] Voice 7: stephen go ahead thank

[1:18:20] Voice 1: you chair i you

[1:18:21] Voice 1: know i i fully this is a good debate especially between the two documents when i read this the

[1:18:28] Voice 1: officer will investigate the potential violation including it's not excluding and i that's kind

[1:18:34] Voice 1: of the way I looked at like there you know this is a to give as much of a detailed list to be

[1:18:39] Voice 1: prescriptive as possible so you can see that but it doesn't exclude you know gathering evidence

[1:18:44] Voice 1: from other sources but perhaps that's too pedantic that's just the way I read that so I do I do agree

[1:18:51] Voice 1: with you that changing that where we're with 364 reviewing evidence including evidence gathered

[1:18:58] Voice 1: from a site inspection irrelevant bylaws or something like that just tinkering with that

[1:19:02] Voice 1: particular clause may address your concerns uh trustee elliott yeah

[1:19:08] Voice 7: and and the alternative i

[1:19:10] Voice 7: i think it's a good idea to put it in there explicitly because i can imagine circumstances

[1:19:15] Voice 7: indeed where a new survey can be provided to the to bylaw and it just completely extinguishes the

[1:19:24] Voice 7: complaint but you could actually put in three point in 363 it says hearing from the respondent

[1:19:31] Voice 7: and potentially and maybe this could include evidence um so i'll leave it to you robert

[1:19:40] Voice 7: could we leave it to you to actually figure out what to put in there and yes you need a motion

[1:19:47] Voice 7: for that effect no um okay so we can do something at the end which says you know update according

[1:19:55] Voice 7: according to the suggested amendments, yeah?

[1:19:57] Voice 7: Correct, yes.

[1:19:59] Voice 7: Okay, just bundle them.

[1:20:01] Voice 7: Is that okay with you, Trustee Elliott?

[1:20:11] Voice 7: Yeah, okay.

[1:20:12] Voice 7: Anybody have anything to add to this discussion?

[1:20:15] Voice 7: So we've agreed that there will be some kind of edit there

[1:20:19] Voice 7: to reflect the fact that a respondent could provide evidence

[1:20:24] Voice 7: which would satisfy the by-law officer

[1:20:27] Voice 7: and a site inspection might not be necessary.

[1:20:32] Voice 7: And we will, at the end, just say that we're going to forward it as amended to address that.

[1:20:42] Voice 7: Okay, right.

[1:20:44] Voice 7: Any other issues with this document that anybody wants to bring up?

[1:20:52] Voice 7: No.

[1:20:53] Voice 7: Okay.

[1:20:57] Voice 7: So, do we need to make a motion?

[1:21:00] Voice 7: What page is the motion on?

[1:21:02] Voice 7: I can't find it quickly myself.

[1:21:04] Voice 7: myself the recommendations and the motion step

[1:21:09] Voice 1: 19 page 19

[1:21:10] Voice 7: thank you i'm scrolling up and down

[1:21:13] Voice 7: frantically here okay so these three motions um uh need to go through and we need to say um as

[1:21:29] Voice 7: amended at the end of number one and two correct stefan trustee elliott go ahead i was nodding

[1:21:42] Voice 1: i'm

[1:21:43] Voice 7: happy

[1:21:44] Trustee Elliott: to i'm happy to make one of the motions and let's move this along

[1:21:47] Trustee Elliott: yeah let's i

[1:21:49] Trustee Elliott: moved that regional planning committee review and endorse draft bylaw

[1:21:55] Trustee Elliott: compliance and enforcement policy 5.5.1 as amended

[1:22:01] Voice 7: seconded by trustee bortwick

[1:22:03] Voice 7: um okay all those in favor raise your hands great lower your hands any objectives raise your hands

[1:22:18] Voice 7: Oh, so that passes.

[1:22:23] Voice 7: Next, number two, who'd like to read that one?

[1:22:30] Voice 7: Trustee Borthwick, go ahead.

[1:22:32] Voice 11: I move that the Regional Planning Committee review and endorse draft by-law compliance and enforcement best practices manual as amended.

[1:22:40] Voice 7: Seconded by Trustee Campbell.

[1:22:47] Voice 7: Okay, all those in favor, raise your hands.

[1:22:54] Voice 7: Lower your hands.

[1:22:58] Voice 7: Anybody not in favor, raise your hand.

[1:23:02] Voice 7: Okay, that passes. And number three, who would like to read that?

[1:23:13] Voice 11: Go

[1:23:13] Voice 7: ahead, Trustee Brothwick, yeah.

[1:23:15] Voice 11: I move that the Regional Planning Committee

[1:23:17] Voice 11: forward the By-law Compliance and Enforcement Policy 5.5.1 and the Draft By-law Compliance

[1:23:22] Voice 11: and Enforcement Best Practices Manual to Trust Council for review and comment.

[1:23:27] Voice 7: And seconded by Trustee Elliott. All those in favor, raise your hands.

[1:23:36] Voice 7: and blow your hands anybody not in favor raise your hands okay that passes thank you all very

[1:23:51] Voice 7: much so um where are we in the agenda right now so we're moving on to i think we should move on

[1:23:59] Voice 7: to the alice trust freshwater atlas update briefing and if we deal with that then we can

[1:24:07] Voice 7: and perhaps we should break for lunch after that.

[1:24:10] Voice 7: Or would anybody like a short break right now?

[1:24:17] Voice 11: I

[1:24:18] Voice 7: have a cat

[1:24:18] Voice 11: that I'm going to go let out,

[1:24:20] Voice 11: but I'll be right back.

[1:24:21] Voice 11: I will do you no good for me.

[1:24:24] Voice 7: Okay.

[1:24:26] Voice 7: Okay, so 7.2.

[1:24:29] Voice 7: Who wants to kick that off?

[1:24:33] Voice 7: Is it William or Stefan, whichever?

[1:24:37] Voice 1: Well, thank you, Chair.

[1:24:38] Voice 1: I'll pass it over to William,

[1:24:40] Voice 1: but suffice to say that William and I have discussed this

[1:24:44] Voice 1: quite great length together and

[1:24:46] Voice 1: we were excited to bring a demo together for your

[1:24:51] Voice 1: consideration. Realize we're not ready for that demo until we have a good communications plan

[1:24:55] Voice 1: to roll it out. In the meantime, you asked for an update and

[1:24:59] Voice 1: it is here for your consideration and William will talk to it.

[1:25:06] Voice 7: Okay.

[1:25:09] Voice 12: Thank you through the chair. Also

[1:25:13] Voice 12: chair, if we

[1:25:14] Voice 12: we wouldn't mind that we can promote Landon to panelists.

[1:25:21] Voice 12: He was a consultant on the work and he's joining us today.

[1:25:26] Voice 12: Yeah, so thank you for having me and exciting news

[1:25:30] Voice 12: that the contract for the Freshwater Atlas

[1:25:37] Voice 12: has been concluded in the start of July.

[1:25:41] Voice 12: And all of the deliverables from the contract were met, with the exception of the 3D island hydrogeological models.

[1:25:57] Voice 12: We had some challenges there, and challenges is probably an understatement, in acquiring the licensing for that service and product, and I was just informed that we have acquired that license at the start of this month, a few weeks ago.

[1:26:28] Voice 12: So that will be the next step, and staff will take that on.

[1:26:32] Voice 12: We don't have to go to contract for that to start with the 3D aspect of the freshwater atlas,

[1:26:40] Voice 12: which will be hosting the 3D models in a particular software and moving forward on that.

[1:26:47] Voice 12: Yeah, so as it sits, we do have like an operational demo of like a working freshwater atlas.

[1:26:59] Voice 12: There's several components of it that need to be added to, and there needs to be a communications plan around it to roll out.

[1:27:08] Voice 12: So I'm not sure how much more the RPC would want to hear from this. I'm open to questions.

[1:27:15] Voice 12: And if we do want to take a sneak peek, I do have that ability.

[1:27:19] Voice 12: But I think what Director Cermak was suggesting, what we talked about, is that the RPC perhaps has a special meeting or we organize some sort of special rollout around this project.

[1:27:38] Voice 12: And since it is a project of the Regional Planning Committee and not Trust Area Services, it seemed like the Trust Programs Committee was not really interested in doing another complex freshwater data science focused educational outreach as part of their program.

[1:28:08] Voice 12: So that direction would have to come from BRPC, and I believe that Director Cermak can speak more to that and probably involved in the request for decision coming up later on in the meeting.

[1:28:25] Voice 12: Yeah, thank you. I'll leave it at that for now.

[1:28:27] Voice 12: Oh, and I also want to just, I would like to give some gratitude to Landon Matichak, who is our consultant from Cedars Shore Consulting.

[1:28:37] Voice 12: This was a very difficult project, so it was taking five, six years of mapping information that we got from clients, stuff that I made from the province, from the regional districts, and solving all that so it can be accepted by the Islands Trust mapping servers.

[1:28:56] Voice 12: And in that timeframe, we went through an evolution in mapping servers where now we host our mapping data in-house where before it was in the cloud and the Freshwater Atlas arced over that.

[1:29:12] Voice 12: So we had to really change the way our methodology and getting our data into our mapping framework.

[1:29:21] Voice 12: So the Freshwater Atlas, the main map is on the same platform as TAPIS or MapIt.

[1:29:29] Voice 12: And there's educational experiences around that that act more like websites with embedded maps.

[1:29:35] Voice 12: Yeah, so I think I'll leave it at that unless there's something else, Chair, that you'd like to hear.

[1:29:41] Voice 12: Thanks.

[1:29:43] Voice 7: Sure. Anybody want to ask questions, open a discussion about this?

[1:29:48] Voice 7: Go ahead.

[1:29:52] Voice 7: Jesse Campbell, go ahead.

[1:29:55] Voice 3: I'm just wondering if this...

[1:30:00] Voice 3: is sort of is the information or provides the information that um the i think i think it was

[1:30:09] Voice 3: maxine maybe earlier in the meeting was sort of trying to say that she felt like needed to be

[1:30:18] Voice 3: provided is that does that sort of tie this into a public viewable uh water data go ahead william

[1:30:34] Voice 7: or whoever would like to

[1:30:36] Voice 7: answer this uh

[1:30:37] Voice 12: yeah through the chair um don't really have the

[1:30:40] Voice 12: haven't really um dissected what we heard in the delegations today so i won't speak directly to

[1:30:46] Voice 12: that but i'll speak it to the last part of your comment yes this is a um a public facing um

[1:30:53] Voice 12: at its at its basic form a uh a public facing web map um with with a growing amount of information

[1:31:01] Voice 12: information i've been since i've been handed over the keys from landon i've been working on

[1:31:06] Voice 12: symbology and trying to make it more clear and and when we get more layers we can add to it so

[1:31:11] Voice 12: there's going to be like a living map that's going to be transparent for the mapping information that

[1:31:18] Voice 12: we get from projects and that staff have created for certain projects and then the experiences side

[1:31:25] Voice 12: is what um esri arc online calls them they're they're like web-based um um yeah like like

[1:31:33] Voice 12: web web-based uh um environments that that you can um that staff can and through communications

[1:31:41] Voice 12: create uh um an easier way for public to digest the complex um uh professional reports that we

[1:31:51] Voice 12: we get because we get our professional reports to to be written to staff we don't get our

[1:31:57] Voice 12: professionals like our groundwater consultants to write at a grade five level um so that's something

[1:32:03] Voice 12: that that that staff would is is planning on and intending and doing in real time and like i said

[1:32:08] Voice 12: i have two uh experiences that i could just flash on the screen to show you at the basics what it is

[1:32:15] Voice 12: um if that was helpful but if that's not helpful then we can wait till the the main like roll out

[1:32:21] Voice 12: of the project but i i think you're um you said it right trustee campbell that this is

[1:32:28] Voice 12: um the intention of providing this information and data transparent um accessible and also to

[1:32:37] Voice 12: add an educational component of it to simplify the complexities of it thanks that's super super cool

[1:32:44] Voice 7: Yeah, so my question would be just to follow on from that.

[1:32:49] Voice 7: So what you're saying is that there'll be a web-based experience which will allow your average user to get information, to gain knowledge.

[1:33:03] Voice 7: I mean, I've tried to use the Provincial Water Atlas online and to be honest, you know, I'm reasonably knowledgeable about all the different categories.

[1:33:13] Voice 7: There is so much information in there with similar names that I found it difficult to really drill down and come up with something.

[1:33:21] Voice 7: The Well database, the Well's database is about the most useful one.

[1:33:26] Voice 7: So will you be able to, as was asked, really allow users to drill down the public and really get a feeling for the situation with respect to water on the islands?

[1:33:42] Voice 12: No, I'm not sure how I would invoke feeling.

[1:33:48] Voice 12: I hope that people have a feeling of exploration and interest in the water, but there is an opportunity to explore the latter part of what you said is what we're doing with the data, how this data is using planning.

[1:34:06] Voice 12: planning. We're edging on that with the freshwater footprint project on Gabriola. And it's possible

[1:34:14] Voice 12: that a whole experience can be built out of that. That's out of the scope of the current consultant,

[1:34:19] Voice 12: but we're going to have so much great information that we need to share that in a useful way.

[1:34:24] Voice 12: That's likely beyond the walls of a professional report. So that's where this tool can be

[1:34:36] Voice 12: be quite powerful because the the base of it is is like the bc um water resources catalog or the

[1:34:44] Voice 12: freshwater the freshwater atlas is quite complex but the water resources catalog it just has

[1:34:48] Voice 12: everything right you can look at licenses you can look at wells you can look at watersheds and and

[1:34:54] Voice 12: it all has a list there and we have the same for the freshwater footprint or sorry for the

[1:34:59] Voice 12: freshwater atlas but all clipped just to the island's trust area right so like there's all

[1:35:04] Voice 12: this information you can look at streams you can look at what we bring in the wells like a lot of

[1:35:08] Voice 12: the bc and um data we just bring in because it just ports over um and through an open sharing

[1:35:17] Voice 12: data sharing agreement so so that and that yes i agree it it can get confusing i i did request

[1:35:25] Voice 12: a share screen i could just pop it up to show just like the feel of of how how much um data

[1:35:32] Voice 12: there is but but i i wanted to kind of i'm more excited about the tail end of it of of taking say

[1:35:39] Voice 12: water licensing or groundwater recharge or or climate or watershed resiliency and then taking

[1:35:46] Voice 12: that concept that you can see in the list of all the layers and then breaking that out into this

[1:35:51] Voice 12: experience where you can slowly go through each step and learn about it and then hopefully when

[1:35:56] Voice 12: and it gets flashed on the screen again,

[1:35:58] Voice 12: that person or person who's exploring the data

[1:36:03] Voice 12: has a little bit more relevance to the...

[1:36:07] Voice 7: I'll just ask one other question

[1:36:09] Voice 7: and then I'll open the floor to others

[1:36:11] Voice 7: and maybe you want to share that screen.

[1:36:15] Voice 7: The MAPIT, TAPIS, whatever software,

[1:36:18] Voice 7: mostly what we see is not three-dimensional.

[1:36:22] Voice 7: so um how will those three-dimensional hydrogeological models be incorporated is that

[1:36:32] Voice 7: a whole other suite of software that won't be exposed through mapper uh

[1:36:38] Voice 12: yeah you got it so the

[1:36:40] Voice 12: um the the island 3d models uh i have the mock-up logo here but it doesn't go anywhere um it um and

[1:36:47] Voice 12: And these logos are mock-up.

[1:36:49] Voice 12: I'm pretty sure Cons has something to say about this.

[1:36:52] Voice 12: That, yeah, it's part of its own suite of software.

[1:36:57] Voice 1: And

[1:36:57] Voice 12: we actually host those models.

[1:37:01] Voice 12: And then their product serves it up on a website, which is quite amazing to have just any regular

[1:37:11] Voice 12: of a computer or phone for that matter, run these very complex hydrogeological models is really

[1:37:18] Voice 12: an amazing feat of technology. Where it does overlap with the work that we do with mapping is

[1:37:23] Voice 12: that it's a three-dimensional cube, say, but we can layer on all of our two-dimensional GIS layers

[1:37:33] Voice 12: on top of that. So roads, parcels, groundwater recharge mapping, wells, and all those things

[1:37:39] Voice 12: to navigate the 3d model because sometimes i've i've done a few demos on on them and they're

[1:37:45] Voice 12: they're quite difficult to navigate so having having those navigational tools is is going to

[1:37:50] Voice 12: be really helpful for just the basic end user and there will be a how-to to how to explore these

[1:37:57] Voice 12: models so it should be anyone should be able to to really um like open them look at them spin a

[1:38:03] Voice 12: spin around the island and and make um pie slices through them that should be um something

[1:38:10] Voice 12: that that

[1:38:11] Voice 12: the majority of population will be able to do yeah

[1:38:14] Voice 7: thank you um so anybody else want to jump

[1:38:17] Voice 7: into the conversation okay go ahead dressy elliott so

[1:38:28] Trustee Elliott: just looking at next steps that you

[1:38:31] Trustee Elliott: you laid out in terms of communications materials um so communications staff uh

[1:38:43] Trustee Elliott: will be available in fall 2025 to develop the communications and then what are the deliverables

[1:38:52] Trustee Elliott: again are we doing um a webinar um to show how this works um what what can we expect

[1:39:04] Trustee Elliott: um

[1:39:05] Voice 12: okay through the chair so this is uh what's this what's the saying at the pleasure of the

[1:39:11] Voice 12: committee i think something like that um i i i think that that's um we're looking for

[1:39:17] Voice 12: for feedback for next steps so um we will meet with communication staff and then and then we'll

[1:39:24] Voice 12: have to meet with the regional planning committee um because it will be your outreach right it

[1:39:30] Voice 12: won't be communication staff operating through tasks is how i understand it communication staff

[1:39:36] Voice 12: will will help us roll this out in a good way so i think that's a discussion to be had in in in my

[1:39:44] Voice 12: opinion i think um having a and we've done this over and over again and i've done many freshwater

[1:39:50] Voice 12: uh webinars they're great like everyone's looking at the same thing um it's not you know in a big

[1:39:57] Voice 12: airy venue or something like that so so we can have um a description of the project and and

[1:40:05] Voice 12: and um of the freshwater alice a demo and and then it and then at the end just open question and

[1:40:12] Voice 12: answers are really good um and and to not only answering the questions but but receiving them

[1:40:20] Voice 12: and then that can help us uh design going forward to see you know it could be a realtor saying you

[1:40:25] Voice 12: know we would like to see this that's really that's a smart thing um so i think something

[1:40:31] Voice 12: like that an hour probably i find the

[1:40:34] Voice 12: hour and a half webinars get really long in the tooth around

[1:40:37] Voice 12: around the 80 minute mark, but that's my understanding,

[1:40:41] Voice 12: but perhaps Director Swannick has a different one, yeah.

[1:40:45] Voice 7: Thanks, just a quick response to that

[1:40:47] Voice 7: and then I'll go to Stefan.

[1:40:49] Voice 7: I mean, I could envisage having this at Trust Council

[1:40:55] Voice 7: and having it open to the public as well,

[1:40:58] Voice 7: like at a specific time,

[1:41:00] Voice 7: combine it as a kind of, you know,

[1:41:03] Voice 7: showcase it during Trust Council.

[1:41:05] Voice 7: and I would really love to see as part of the demo

[1:41:10] Voice 7: a kind of use case where you say,

[1:41:13] Voice 7: you know, this application arrives to subdivide whatever

[1:41:17] Voice 7: and here's how it works

[1:41:18] Voice 7: because that comes and it sort of underpins

[1:41:22] Voice 7: the suitable land analysis I'm imagining as well.

[1:41:25] Voice 7: But over to you, Stefan.

[1:41:30] Voice 1: Thank you, Chair.

[1:41:32] Voice 1: Our intention is to come back to the RPC

[1:41:34] Voice 1: in the next regular business meeting,

[1:41:36] Voice 1: which is the end of October, with a more detailed communications plan.

[1:41:40] Voice 1: That's the next step.

[1:41:41] Voice 1: And in that, you know, I'm really conscious that we need to also bring staff up to speed and managers.

[1:41:49] Voice 1: So it's a very complex strategy.

[1:41:52] Voice 1: It's really easy to simplify that the desired goal is to say,

[1:41:57] Voice 1: where's the water that we need that's available or that we need to keep?

[1:42:01] Voice 1: but of course water's not that simple and the understanding is hard to get at that discrete

[1:42:06] Voice 1: level. So what we're proposing is or at least the early draft of an implementation plan

[1:42:12] Voice 1: in discussion with communications is develop an internal staff process whereby we can bring us

[1:42:18] Voice 1: up to speed and then bring the elected officials up to speed and then from that we'll branch out

[1:42:22] Voice 1: to the public. So it'll be it's going to take a while for us to get all that happening. I have

[1:42:28] Voice 1: have talked about the senior leadership group because executive committee has a what do we call

[1:42:34] Voice 1: that the learning you know continuous learning program there it is I got it and that of course

[1:42:41] Voice 1: I think is a shifting thing all the time it's a very shifting sense type thing and then using

[1:42:48] Voice 1: the communication staff as you can see you know we've been punted all the way to the fall to even

[1:42:53] Voice 1: talk about this so we'll roll out the communications plan and the implementation plan of this as we

[1:42:58] Voice 1: we flesh it out more and you'll get a chance to comment on all the bits and

[1:43:02] Voice 1: pieces. If you want a webinar, if you want to FAQ, if you want, you know,

[1:43:05] Voice 1: how we want to do that in more detail.

[1:43:07] Voice 1: That's the proposal that we'll come back.

[1:43:09] Voice 1: And if you notice that communications plan implementation plan is harmonious

[1:43:13] Voice 1: in timing with the bylaw enforcement,

[1:43:15] Voice 1: because that is when communications has said they're available.

[1:43:20] Voice 1: So hopefully those are the next two things coming to you at your next

[1:43:23] Voice 1: meeting.

[1:43:23] Voice 7: Sure. Thanks. Can we go back to page 61 of the agenda?

[1:43:28] Voice 7: is to look at those next steps together so um what i'm hearing you say is that you will start

[1:43:35] Voice 7: work on the communications plan in the fall i assume that means sort of october and that um

[1:43:45] Voice 7: in the meantime but in the meantime when is the next regional planning meeting i just over

[1:43:52] Voice 7: over

[1:43:53] Voice 1: halloween do

[1:43:55] Voice 7: you think like even if you park the the full rollout communications plan

[1:44:01] Voice 7: do you think that the actual atlas will be up and running enough for a live demo at that meeting

[1:44:10] Voice 7: yeah

[1:44:11] Voice 12: thank thank you for that share because i think we just um not to be adjacent to my director

[1:44:16] Voice 12: but i think we just confused something um and and it and it also relates back to your comment about

[1:44:21] Voice 12: in front of trust council on how the freshwater Atlas will integrate with planning. So that step

[1:44:27] Voice 12: there, once you say freshwater Atlas, full stop, and then go integrate with planning,

[1:44:32] Voice 12: the integrated with planning thing, that's the strategy like that, that's some serious business.

[1:44:37] Voice 12: And, and we have a whole region request for a decision that's going to be talking about the

[1:44:44] Voice 12: a strategy. I think the, the Atlas is more simple than that. Um, we ha we have a working product

[1:44:52] Voice 12: here. Um, it's going to get better over the next few months. And, uh, I think it deserves just like

[1:44:58] Voice 12: a solo like webinar that we can record that can be, you know, a tool for, um, anybody, uh, even

[1:45:10] Voice 12: even the province, their staff, to go in and use the atlas.

[1:45:14] Voice 12: They may or may not care how we use it in planning.

[1:45:17] Voice 12: Of course, Trust Council does.

[1:45:19] Voice 12: And so I think that's like a larger conversation,

[1:45:22] Voice 12: and that would take planning time.

[1:45:25] Voice 12: And like Director Cermak was saying,

[1:45:29] Voice 12: like getting staff on board with what's going on a bit more

[1:45:32] Voice 12: and educating within.

[1:45:34] Voice 12: But I think the freshwater atlas is simpler than that

[1:45:38] Voice 12: because it's a tool and we can do a webinar on the tool and then there can be next steps or

[1:45:44] Voice 12: suggestions for next steps for upgrades and then of course you know provocative questions come

[1:45:49] Voice 12: under there how do we use this for planning so go

[1:45:53] Trustee Elliott: ahead trustee uh thank you um william for that

[1:45:58] Trustee Elliott: clarification that's really really helpful so the freshwater atlas is a working product right now

[1:46:04] Trustee Elliott: now it's going to get better over the next few months um do we want to give direction

[1:46:10] Trustee Elliott: um oh look at that sorry i got distracted by a pretty picture

[1:46:14] Voice 12: i can distract all day oh my

[1:46:16] Trustee Elliott: goodness so exciting to see uh um yeah actually could you give us a little run through this is

[1:46:26] Trustee Elliott: really well as you're doing right now yeah

[1:46:28] Voice 12: sure quiet yeah so like this is um some simple well

[1:46:32] Voice 12: not simple data but this is data from the pacific climate impacts consortium and the island stress

[1:46:37] Voice 12: is dabbled in getting this data from different groups but nobody's provided us anything that

[1:46:43] Voice 12: is useful for like drilling down so of course there's a few we just laid the wells on here

[1:46:49] Voice 12: um there's i'm gonna put the island um on on this one this one's a little bit uh it's a little bit

[1:46:57] Voice 12: bit more complex to to cruise around in but you can see that here's here's like climate data um

[1:47:03] Voice 12: we have uh aquifer data so we have aquifer material so we're all bedrock and you can see

[1:47:12] Voice 12: that the right here is where the legend pops up and i like that a lot more than our current day

[1:47:17] Voice 12: like i just i'm just used to i'm old school i like seeing my my layers and my and um my legend

[1:47:26] Voice 12: on one side there's also you know this is from the province so there's like and i i i gave a

[1:47:33] Voice 12: real real soft demo to the groundwater staff at the province on this um in confidence because

[1:47:40] Voice 12: we haven't rolled it out yet and i was asking like like is it you know is maine still of a

[1:47:45] Voice 12: quality concern and and and you know they're aquifers and there's productivity notes on

[1:47:51] Voice 12: aquifer so these are all aquifer notes and and so this like these need to be updated and so with the

[1:47:58] Voice 12: province by saying we want to use this data for you know for demonstration purposes that that

[1:48:04] Voice 12: might ignite them to focus on on this area again with respect to aquifer notes and um yeah so

[1:48:12] Voice 12: there's a whole bunch of stuff in here right like like um like chair bullen was saying it can get

[1:48:18] Voice 12: can get confusing really quick right because there's just so much to look at um so we have

[1:48:23] Voice 12: we're working on bedrock right now like so this is going to get better actually this is

[1:48:28] Voice 12: geology i'm working on this uh currently uh we have like groundwater recharge mapping

[1:48:34] Voice 12: um so and it's actually been quite slow today but anyway people like so there's there's all

[1:48:41] Voice 12: of this information available, salt water intrusion, terrain. Yeah, so this is just

[1:48:49] Voice 12: the base of the Freshwater Atlas, and we're going to try to make it a little bit more

[1:48:54] Voice 12: navigable. There we go. Oh, I see. I know what happened there. That's the coverage.

[1:49:00] Voice 7: Do you have an appendix of the data sources?

[1:49:05] Voice 7: yeah

[1:49:06] Voice 12: yeah we do uh it's it's not um it's not uh live yet but we we will have that so uh we need

[1:49:14] Voice 12: to go and this is called topographic wetness index so this is this is really interesting

[1:49:19] Voice 12: data set right so um for i'll show a just an experience in a moment here but um can be able

[1:49:28] Voice 12: to describe like what we're looking at here and and how it relates to groundwater recharge and

[1:49:34] Voice 12: And, you know, who knows what kind of researcher or grad student or something like that will pick

[1:49:39] Voice 12: up on one of these layers and find it interesting. And then, you know, we have the overall,

[1:49:45] Voice 12: it's really slow today. I don't know what that is, but yeah. So there's

[1:49:49] Voice 12: some work that we need

[1:49:51] Voice 12: to work on, but like, so this is the final groundwater recharge mapping product that we

[1:49:59] Voice 12: have and it's all over the Islands Trust area. So, you know, if you have your house, you can

[1:50:03] Voice 12: zoom in and look at it i mean it's really great to not have this as a pdf map like we're finally

[1:50:08] Voice 12: here it's really exciting and and i i don't want to be i don't want to like belabor the time here

[1:50:13] Voice 12: but anyway i want to just show you educational experiences so you go in here and there's going

[1:50:17] Voice 12: to be more as as we grow the the educational side to it but uh i will um go to climate again because

[1:50:24] Voice 12: Because you can see here that we have a few items about climate.

[1:50:31] Voice 12: So we're on wildfire threat rating.

[1:50:37] Voice 12: And this is directly from the province.

[1:50:40] Voice 12: A lot of the regional districts are doing this work right now,

[1:50:43] Voice 12: but we're not really privy to that yet.

[1:50:45] Voice 12: Some in the Southern Gulf Islands.

[1:50:47] Voice 12: But this is all fire rating for crown lands or parks.

[1:50:51] Voice 12: works um so we just thought that's just like enticing like we want more of that in the climate

[1:50:56] Voice 4: and

[1:50:57] Voice 12: then so you know there's precipitation and and so the the how the experiences work you can

[1:51:02] Voice 12: read about precipitation where we got the um uh you know what the resolution is where where the

[1:51:07] Voice 12: data can come from and and so this text spot over here can grow over time we can put images it's it

[1:51:13] Voice 12: works like a website you can there's too much information you can keep scrolling down and

[1:51:18] Voice 12: And, and so there's a lot of, I guess I'll, I'll leave it at this because I know I'm taking time

[1:51:22] Voice 12: that there's a lot of opportunity here to, um, expand, um, on, on the experiences and to add

[1:51:29] Voice 12: new ones. And, uh, we just really wanted to make it really simple. There's a lot in here,

[1:51:34] Voice 12: a lot of data, but at the, it's not overwhelming, um, right at the, um, onset. So, um, that's,

[1:51:41] Voice 12: That's like the highest level

[1:51:44] Voice 12: that I can go through on the Atlas.

[1:51:47] Voice 12: But yeah, I thought I would just share.

[1:51:49] Voice 7: Trustee Elliott, go ahead.

[1:51:52] Trustee Elliott: Yeah, so on the experiences side, so rather than producing PDFs, just so I can understand that, we're anticipating having these three experiences available to the public.

[1:52:09] Trustee Elliott: so say they can go into climate and toggle around like the precipitation the wildfire threat so

[1:52:17] Trustee Elliott: these four sort of areas and that's considered an experience okay yeah

[1:52:23] Voice 12: and and so there's this

[1:52:26] Voice 12: is really basic like one side is a is a good text web page with you can input graphics and

[1:52:32] Voice 12: hyperlinks and everything and the other side is just a map um there's there's other templates

[1:52:38] Voice 12: plates that you can click on things that gives you you know more data and and you can filter

[1:52:44] Voice 12: things like this is the most basic level of experience um and that's what we want to start

[1:52:50] Voice 12: with i i think if there's a need for pdfs because i think there is still a need for these physical

[1:52:55] Voice 12: things that that staff or consultants can easily put in their reports so we could also have like a

[1:53:02] Voice 12: pdf section in the experience like like on this page and there's just a list of pdfs and you could

[1:53:08] Voice 12: could just click them and and download them from our from from our website and then also i want to

[1:53:14] Voice 12: have a a data download section so mark van bakel started with this and and has very simple um data

[1:53:21] Voice 12: from the island stress available for anybody to download like zoning and and parcels and

[1:53:26] Voice 12: roads i think some of some other things and and i would i would like to have the the data that

[1:53:30] Voice 12: we're willing to share uh you just click on data downloads and you can download it as a

[1:53:35] Voice 12: a layered pdf or a shapefile or whatever the data is that that should be just so straightforward for

[1:53:42] Voice 12: a consultant to get data rather than asking me and i have to have to package it email them the

[1:53:47] Voice 12: files are huge you know all that mess so this will hopefully streamline that so

[1:53:52] Voice 7: i have a question

[1:53:53] Voice 7: which is um this is kind of the freshwater atlas but really it's much more than that in that you

[1:54:05] Voice 7: If you step out of the freshwater atlas, what are the choices do you have in MAPIT?

[1:54:15] Voice 7: It's kind of like different views into the same data, but yet the freshwater atlas seems to be the best implementation, new software, new data, cleaned up data sets.

[1:54:29] Voice 7: So I'll just throw it out there.

[1:54:31] Voice 7: should it actually be called a freshwater atlas or should it be called the islands trust atlas

[1:54:35] Voice 7: which includes freshwater data anyway it was just as i was thinking about it i thought how do you

[1:54:42] Voice 7: actually launch i'm assuming that map it will be available to the public soon again because people

[1:54:49] Voice 7: really miss that and that this is part of the you know refresh re-implementation of map it

[1:54:57] Voice 7: but maybe Stefan you want to answer that thank

[1:55:02] Voice 1: you chair I do not know when uh our GIS department

[1:55:05] Voice 1: will be up and rolling with uh map it I do have um the corresponding map player open or tap is

[1:55:12] Voice 1: open on my my screen yeah it's interesting to compare the two but uh

[1:55:17] Voice 7: okay well listen uh are

[1:55:19] Voice 7: there further questions so let's summarize here we are talking about this freshwater atlas too

[1:55:27] Voice 7: which needs to be rolled out and people may need to become aware of it so what are the next steps

[1:55:36] Voice 7: specifically with respect to this tool when will it be ready for prime time what do you suggest in

[1:55:43] Voice 7: terms of making people aware of it william stephanie

[1:55:52] Voice 12: well yeah i think this might be a

[1:55:53] Voice 12: director cermak thing i think he said it earlier that um from the next steps of from my um briefing

[1:55:59] Voice 12: briefing that or not from my briefing our briefing because Stefan did a lot of work on it I must say

[1:56:04] Voice 12: um that um that we we will communicate with comm staff and then come back with our best options on

[1:56:11] Voice 12: how to roll out the freshwater alice at at your next meeting and then hopefully that happens and

[1:56:16] Voice 12: then we can um roll it out um you know I you know promptly or quickly may not be the the right term

[1:56:27] Voice 12: but but in in in like the because of course communication stuff they're doing webinars

[1:56:32] Voice 12: and stuff so we're gonna have to get in some sort of cycle there but um that's what i'm hoping that

[1:56:36] Voice 12: we can do webinar but okay so that has something to okay

[1:56:41] Voice 7: thanks william uh so just quickly uh

[1:56:45] Voice 7: stephan and then i'll go to trustee elliot i

[1:56:48] Voice 1: just want to you know uh reiterate what or confirm what

[1:56:52] Voice 1: william is talking about our the plan was to return to you with a plan and how to roll this

[1:56:56] Voice 1: us out. There's a little bit of background work that needs to happen, especially with the

[1:56:59] Voice 1: communication staff. We want to come back to you with a plan, right? So whereby we propose a webinar

[1:57:06] Voice 1: one, two, three, or do it at a trust council, what have you. We just haven't got there yet in terms

[1:57:11] Voice 1: of rolling it out. We've got as far as the contract just ended at the end, like three weeks ago, not

[1:57:16] Voice 1: even. And again, thanks to the work of Landon, working with William. So that is the next step

[1:57:22] Voice 1: for us to come back with something a little more contingent but according to uh uh what

[1:57:27] Voice 1: that's interesting what william was saying the um the easiest thing for for present

[1:57:33] Voice 1: presentation sake is to do a webinar an interactive series but uh my my uh experience with these types

[1:57:40] Voice 1: of products is that it's going to be quite robust and long and we're going to have to find we're

[1:57:44] Voice 1: going to have to strategically find a way to roll it out in a way that's easy to comprehend and

[1:57:48] Voice 1: digest and over time and sort of might have to be like step one, two, three or something whereby

[1:57:52] Voice 1: people get it, you know, get the basic, get the intermediate, get the advanced or something like

[1:57:58] Voice 1: that. And that might be then also targeting certain audiences. But again, that'll all come

[1:58:02] Voice 1: out into a communications plan back to you in October, hopefully.

[1:58:05] Voice 7: Okay, thank you. Trustee

[1:58:06] Voice 7: Elliott?

[1:58:09] Trustee Elliott: Thanks. So I'm misunderstood. I thought it was the intention to schedule a special meeting

[1:58:18] Trustee Elliott: between this one and October.

[1:58:22] Trustee Elliott: Do we need to direct staff to schedule a special meeting

[1:58:26] Trustee Elliott: to discuss the rollout of the freshwater, Alice?

[1:58:31] Trustee Elliott: Or you'll bring that in October?

[1:58:34] Voice 1: I'll just jump in there, Chair.

[1:58:36] Voice 1: If staff are ready to present something

[1:58:39] Voice 1: via a special business meeting,

[1:58:41] Voice 1: I don't think we're ready to make that decision here and now.

[1:58:44] Voice 1: Perhaps William can correct me if I'm wrong.

[1:58:47] Voice 1: I think if we felt we were ready, we had all the materials ready, then we would request a special business meeting via resolution without meeting.

[1:59:00] Voice 1: So I don't think we have a decision to make today.

[1:59:02] Voice 1: But again, I can stand to be corrected by William if I don't

[1:59:07] Voice 7: know how close we are.

[1:59:09] Voice 7: Yeah.

[1:59:12] Voice 7: I think about Trust Council and then October for an RPC.

[1:59:16] Voice 7: um i do i do think that it would be helpful like at the moment you don't have the 3d models you

[1:59:24] Voice 7: don't have like it would be really helpful for the rpc to see the interface and complete it

[1:59:33] Voice 7: not sort of like it looks pretty good but there's still some work to do and that would be a kind of

[1:59:38] Voice 7: of a time stamp a key moment when we go oh yeah so I kind of support the fact that we should have

[1:59:47] Voice 7: a special meeting almost a kind of a mini webinar for RPC and and a real you know show and tell

[1:59:55] Voice 7: and questions all questions on the table so um

[1:59:59] Voice 7: And...

[2:00:00] Voice 7: Could you consider that and come back to us with some dates, you know, in the next couple of weeks?

[2:00:07] Voice 7: Once you get your head around exactly what work needs to be done before you could do that.

[2:00:13] Voice 7: And if it has to go to October, fair enough.

[2:00:16] Voice 7: But I would love to see something sooner than that.

[2:00:21] Voice 7: Anybody else want to comment on that?

[2:00:26] Voice 7: Stefan, go ahead.

[2:00:28] Voice 7: Oh, sorry, Trustee Elliot.

[2:00:29] Voice 1: I'll defer to Trustee Elliot.

[2:00:31] Trustee Elliott: I just want to say congratulations.

[2:00:32] Trustee Elliott: this is a really big step and what a massive accomplishment to have gotten from this

[2:00:40] Trustee Elliott: really very long complicated strategy to an actual product that is close to being available

[2:00:48] Trustee Elliott: to the public i just want to congratulate the whole team and um thank you this is really

[2:00:54] Trustee Elliott: significant work thank

[2:00:57] Voice 4: you yeah

[2:00:58] Voice 7: yeah that's pretty sexy

[2:01:00] Voice 4: um

[2:01:02] Voice 7: so and everybody will be allowed

[2:01:05] Voice 7: to just play around in it there won't be any sort of oh no you have to get an account and you can

[2:01:12] Voice 7: only see no

[2:01:14] Voice 12: i open

[2:01:16] Voice 7: the door yeah

[2:01:17] Voice 12: i in in my like i i do a lot of digital domain and and multimedia

[2:01:22] Voice 12: art in my my other life and um i'm a i'm a huge proponent of open source software and no accounts

[2:01:31] Voice 12: and so yeah there's no like you got to log in you got to put your gmail none of that it's just

[2:01:35] Voice 12: going to be wide open and and available and um yeah there's there shouldn't be restriction i

[2:01:42] Voice 12: mean it's public data i mean this is all

[2:01:44] Voice 12: public information right so um that's that's been the

[2:01:48] Voice 12: a goal and and you know to there's i i want to say there's two huge like challenges that we had

[2:01:55] Voice 12: one making data transparent we hear that from everyone we heard it today from from a delegate

[2:02:00] Voice 12: and and also taking all this complex data and data streams and and trying to coalesce them into

[2:02:09] Voice 12: some sort of cohesive product and so that's really exciting that we have that we could build on it

[2:02:14] Voice 12: now um i i i think timing it will be an issue like i'm i i haven't taken any summer vacation

[2:02:23] Voice 12: i'll be away in in uh late september early october so there's like a month i'm there's a

[2:02:29] Voice 12: month i'm off there so if that's

[2:02:31] Voice 7: fine i think pushing it there yeah

[2:02:33] Voice 7: that's fine i mean you

[2:02:35] Voice 7: know just uh stefan and you can discuss it and come back to us

[2:02:39] Voice 7: and just make a proposal stefan

[2:02:41] Voice 7: and you have your hand up go ahead thank

[2:02:43] Voice 1: you chair i i did have a few proposed uh special

[2:02:47] Voice 1: business meeting dates if the rpc wanted to consider it regarding the business cases not

[2:02:51] Voice 1: regarding necessarily this item um that'll be on page 64 of your agenda it's september 12th or

[2:02:57] Voice 1: october 3rd and those are just me looking at the meeting calendars and seeing something that works

[2:03:03] Voice 1: they're not perfect by any means i believe um uh one of them conflicted with trustee campbell's

[2:03:10] Voice 1: schedule um anyways i just thought i'd tell you that you know we did a little bit of preview of

[2:03:15] Voice 1: special business meeting dates and um i if i can be blunt one last time about i think as you said

[2:03:21] Voice 1: this is i dare say sexy product uh and that's kind of fun to even say in a public meeting the um

[2:03:28] Voice 1: i think the strategy if i want to be open about this you know this is really a good uh accumulation

[2:03:34] Voice 1: of work that's taken a lot of time a lot of effort and of course the strategic fresh water

[2:03:40] Voice 1: sustainability strategy is part of the key initiative for trust council you have a business

[2:03:45] Voice 1: case before you to talk about after lunch and i think this supports the business case and supports

[2:03:50] Voice 1: the work and i and i strategically would love to have that webinar minimum before the december

[2:03:56] Voice 1: trust council when the the draft budget comes out so that's internally the timeline that we were

[2:04:01] Voice 1: making sure that we're meeting. So just so you know, it's not an

[2:04:05] Voice 1: abandonment issue. It's very

[2:04:06] Voice 1: much on our radar.

[2:04:08] Voice 7: Okay. So with that, I suggest that we break for lunch for half an hour. Does

[2:04:14] Voice 7: that suit everybody? So let's say we'll be back at 12.40. Any objections? Nope. Thanks, William.

[2:04:29] Voice 7: William, that looked great.

[2:04:30] Voice 7: Thanks, Stefan.

[2:04:31] Voice 7: It does look quite exciting.

[2:04:33] Voice 7: I'm a detail-orientated person,

[2:04:36] Voice 7: so I wanted to see a list of the data sources, basically.

[2:04:41] Voice 7: But I understand how much work it is to integrate that data,

[2:04:45] Voice 7: and I appreciate the fact that you had to spend a lot of time

[2:04:48] Voice 7: cleaning the metadata just to achieve that.

[2:04:52] Voice 7: So, good.

[2:04:53] Voice 12: It was

[2:04:53] Voice 12: Landon's good work.

[2:04:55] Voice 7: Oh, okay.

[2:04:56] Voice 7: Thank you, Landon.

[2:04:58] Voice 7: i'm a i'm a data person so i know exactly how much work it takes it's like ducks you know how

[2:05:06] Voice 7: fast the um how fast the feet have to paddle under the water to make it all look good so thank you

[2:05:13] Voice 7: for that um okay uh so we're gonna break now and we'll be back at 12 40 and uh see you then thanks

[2:05:23] Voice 7: Thanks, Rob.

[2:38:21] Voice 4: Hello, where

[2:38:36] Voice 2: is everybody? Oh, there's Sam.

[2:38:38] Voice 7: Hi, Sam. I realize that when I don't look at the list

[2:38:47] Voice 7: of trustees, you know, the participants, I address you informally. But the minute I look over there,

[2:38:54] Voice 7: because you're all listed as trustee Bortwick, etc., I kind of lapse into that more formal thing.

[2:39:00] Voice 7: So that's kind of contributes to my flip flopping around. It's raining slightly here,

[2:39:08] Voice 7: not much a little fine drizzle and I don't think it's going to come to anything but it was quite

[2:39:15] Voice 7: funny I put out these wire supports in my garden which are very ugly standalone but the hummingbirds

[2:39:23] Voice 7: love them because they have a horizontal wire clear view of anything that might come near them

[2:39:31] Voice 7: so there was one sitting and he's taking advantage of the drizzly rain to kind of have a little

[2:39:38] Voice 7: scrub up so he's all kind of ruffled up and uh it's quite nice to watch anyway enough of that

[2:39:45] Voice 7: so uh here we are back and the next thing we have to address is so we have a a quorum yeah

[2:39:57] Voice 7: uh laura told me she's got her camera off for the moment but she's present

[2:40:02] Voice 7: and we don't have trustee alias i think we have trustee campbell okay so i think we're okay for

[2:40:17] Voice 7: the quorum we just carry on yeah i

[2:40:19] Voice 4: am here okay

[2:40:21] Voice 7: thanks aaron um okay so the next thing we are

[2:40:27] Voice 7: dealing with the 7.3 business cases request for decision page 62. So Stefan kick us off please.

[2:40:42] Voice 1: With pleasure chair. Okay so business cases. The regional planning committee at their last meeting

[2:40:49] Voice 1: requested staff to return with three business cases. That one being continue mapping eelgrass

[2:40:56] Voice 1: and kelp forests. That's phase two of what is now a five-year project. The second was develop a

[2:41:04] Voice 1: growth management planning framework that includes data on growth trends and projections, geological

[2:41:08] Voice 1: and hydrological capacities, infrastructure and development rates. And thirdly, conduct an

[2:41:13] Voice 1: independent review of the freshwater sustainability by a qualified external party and that the scope

[2:41:18] Voice 1: include those three bullets as you see them. I'll note that those are all Trust Council

[2:41:24] Voice 1: key initiatives. So you're advancing the work by considering these business cases of the Trust

[2:41:30] Voice 1: Council strategic plan. You have those three business cases before you. I have provided

[2:41:38] Voice 1: a lukewarm, helpful summary in the RFD before you. But I think really the weight of information

[2:41:47] Voice 1: that's valuable to this committee is in the business cases themselves. So maybe not,

[2:41:53] Voice 1: not, you know, maybe my summary is it was more for the casual reader, less for yourselves who

[2:41:59] Voice 1: are the deep divers and thinkers. I will summarize that the map, my thoughts though, in terms of the

[2:42:06] Voice 1: three, staff's recommendation is to advance two of the three, and that being because mapping eelgrass

[2:42:13] Voice 1: is again, phase two, ongoing work. And if we don't do the mapping now, you know, we were talking to

[2:42:22] Voice 1: eelgrass experts and really makes the original phase one data invalid you know we'd have to

[2:42:29] Voice 1: start from scratch again and I would hate for that to be a waste and it's been an ongoing

[2:42:34] Voice 1: trust council strategic priority for the entire time we can get into the value of that and the

[2:42:40] Voice 1: eelgrass I know there's a lot of questions I've been fielding from a few of you so I can't

[2:42:45] Voice 1: emphasize enough the value of eelgrass there's probably not any item that's of greater significance

[2:42:51] Voice 1: it's my humble opinion in the islands trust area being uh you know archipelago that we are

[2:42:55] Voice 1: and the interface of land versus marine and the eelgrass and what it represents to

[2:43:01] Voice 1: demonstrating the impacts of upland uses and of course um you know the value to the marine

[2:43:07] Voice 1: ecosystem so that's mapping eelgrass the other one is development growth so we recommend advancing

[2:43:13] Voice 1: with that with it being $120,000 estimated cost and yeah so the next one was the development

[2:43:21] Voice 1: growth management planning framework this took quite a bit of deep dive into the request and

[2:43:28] Voice 1: what it meant and you'll note that's got a high sticker price that's $211,000 that's just the

[2:43:34] Voice 1: recommendation if you wish to proceed what it would cost in in to get the work done all in a

[2:43:39] Voice 1: in a single year of course the work would be extremely valuable to planning as a whole

[2:43:45] Voice 1: it's very high cost a lot of that is you know the need for a contractor to engage with elected

[2:43:53] Voice 1: officials and other partners really defining what this all meant right there's a lot of ambiguity

[2:43:59] Voice 1: in the terms and stuff like that so i baked that into some of the consultant time

[2:44:03] Voice 1: time. Staff don't recommend proceeding at this time for that one for the high cost of it, one,

[2:44:10] Voice 1: and two, there's a whole series, not a whole series, but

[2:44:12] Voice 1: there's a number of different sort of

[2:44:17] Voice 1: sort of, how do I describe it, how to describe in the report, the different metrics and data

[2:44:23] Voice 1: gathering information proposed in the strategic plan. And when I got discussing this with the

[2:44:29] Voice 1: the senior leadership about the works that are happening at the other

[2:44:34] Voice 1: committees, a lot of questions sort of percolated,

[2:44:38] Voice 1: especially regarding how does this interact with the indicators and the like

[2:44:44] Voice 1: trust. Oh my gosh, I should read my reports,

[2:44:47] Voice 1: the state of the islands report and things like that. And so it was,

[2:44:51] Voice 1: it felt like there are a lot more work was needed to distill what are the best

[2:44:57] Voice 1: metrics as a whole for the islands trust to use to measure the impact of

[2:45:03] Voice 1: development and protect preserving and protecting the unique amenities

[2:45:08] Voice 1: environment and then to turn how that in how that helps with planning so it just

[2:45:14] Voice 1: felt like that this was a good idea but it needs more time to mature and discuss

[2:45:18] Voice 1: and consider otherwise to do all that work that's why it's a high cost is

[2:45:24] Voice 1: is I've got the consultant doing that work in that proposal.

[2:45:26] Voice 1: So staff don't recommend

[2:45:27] Voice 1: or recommend that you defer that work for another time.

[2:45:31] Voice 1: And lastly, we have independent review

[2:45:33] Voice 1: of the freshwater sustainability strategy

[2:45:35] Voice 1: as a very low cost to do two things,

[2:45:39] Voice 1: to review the strategy

[2:45:40] Voice 1: and then to make recommendations of implementation.

[2:45:44] Voice 1: And that would be, again, staff were proposing

[2:45:47] Voice 1: that that include right up to pre-drafting

[2:45:51] Voice 1: what perhaps several years worth of business cases might look like so that you know we're

[2:45:57] Voice 1: you have a little more of a they can be you know attached to it but so we get a little more

[2:46:02] Voice 1: certainty um that the work is moving forward not just for one year or two years but for

[2:46:08] Voice 1: the various years that the strategy recommends going forward so um recommend going forward with

[2:46:14] Voice 1: that it's a there's really an optimal time to revitalize that strategy and to um you know make

[2:46:21] Voice 1: a plan to go forward so that's that's the summary of those three things at a whole but like i said

[2:46:26] Voice 1: there is certainly more details in each one of these business cases happy to have a discussion

[2:46:31] Voice 1: about those and if you feel like you need to come back with more information instead of just

[2:46:38] Voice 1: forwarding it to the financial planning committee for their recommending their support or their

[2:46:42] Voice 1: inclusion in the budget you would like to have information come back to regarding the questions

[2:46:47] Voice 1: you may or may not have um staff have proposed a couple business meeting dates there uh being

[2:46:53] Voice 1: september 12th or october 3rd if you need a you're going to need a special business meeting between

[2:46:57] Voice 1: now and the financial planning committee if you would like to see a refined version and that's

[2:47:01] Voice 1: why we try to get it to you when we do so that there's time for you to get it right with that

[2:47:06] Voice 1: i'll uh open up there i'm sure you have lots of questions so

[2:47:09] Voice 7: okay thank you let's take them one at

[2:47:12] Voice 7: of time then the first one is phase two of eelgrass and kelp forest mapping open the floor

[2:47:18] Voice 7: trustee graham thank

[2:47:20] Voice 2: you chair thank you stephen um i'll admit i'm a little ignorant about the

[2:47:26] Voice 2: threats to eelgrass and kelp other than docks what what are the other threats to those particular

[2:47:37] Voice 2: plant populations other than docks please oh

[2:47:43] Voice 1: my gosh um so through the chair i mean

[2:47:46] Voice 1: the list is lengthy so i mean i'll start with land use you know anything that flows into the water

[2:47:54] Voice 1: flows into the marine environment and being an island most things flow that way it's very rare

[2:47:59] Voice 1: that things flow internally as opposed to external to the island and any runoff and any land use

[2:48:05] Voice 1: so you know i generally use the story i like to change the oil of my car uh at home you know i'll

[2:48:12] Voice 1: change that if i drop any oil uh even if i accidentally spill a tiny bit or a lot um that's

[2:48:18] Voice 1: going to make its way down to the marine environment in one way or another maybe it's absorbed into the

[2:48:22] Voice 1: ground and maybe it's held there for a while but maybe that soil gets up and moved um and so that

[2:48:27] Voice 1: hits the foreshore and that affects the um probably the first noticeable thing it's going to affect

[2:48:34] Voice 1: is eelgrass and that includes and the roads affected with uh you know the rubber crumbs from

[2:48:39] Voice 1: from tires and stuff like that so the whole development how the land use patterns that we

[2:48:44] Voice 1: have affect eelgrass the especially the the the corridor that water transports its way down

[2:48:51] Voice 1: all the things that stormwater brings and just actual drainage but in the marine environment

[2:48:58] Voice 1: itself you know there's chemical uh pollutions and that could be from you know things like having

[2:49:04] Voice 1: too many boats in a harbour Ganges harbour comes to mind not that I can claim it's polluted or

[2:49:08] Voice 1: anything but it certainly is dense it's full of boats sorry side stories going on in my head

[2:49:17] Voice 1: the so you've got docks you've got whatever shoreline permissions you want it could be

[2:49:23] Voice 1: you know commercial industrial residential so on and so forth and I just I think almost everything

[2:49:32] Voice 1: we do affects the eelgrass so it's not just a matter of like shading it's the temperature we

[2:49:39] Voice 1: can do we can provide further shading from you know near shoreline keeping cool water flowing

[2:49:43] Voice 1: into the water and so on and so forth i don't i just feel like i'm doing a disservice listing all

[2:49:48] Voice 1: that i need a biologist who can rattle these things off but um i do think that you know it's

[2:49:53] Voice 1: physical chemical conditions uh that can um change it i think it's the stability of sediments it is

[2:50:00] Voice 1: is making sure that there's enough light getting in

[2:50:04] Voice 1: to keep the grass growing, there's much.

[2:50:08] Voice 1: Sorry.

[2:50:09] Voice 1: May

[2:50:09] Voice 2: I follow up?

[2:50:10] Voice 1: Yeah.

[2:50:11] Voice 2: Go ahead, go ahead, just go ahead.

[2:50:12] Voice 2: Thank you, Stephen.

[2:50:13] Voice 2: I guess I should have prefaced my question

[2:50:17] Voice 2: as far as what we do at the local trust committee.

[2:50:22] Voice 2: Well, we don't control people spilling oil

[2:50:25] Voice 2: and we don't control

[2:50:31] Voice 2: harbors and how many boats are in the harbors and their and their bad activities of dumping

[2:50:36] Voice 2: overboard so what do we zone for well we zone for docks and i'm and i mean most of the islands

[2:50:43] Voice 2: have already developed their waterfront lots i would think so i don't i don't foresee but anyway

[2:50:50] Voice 2: okay i get i get your point and and uh i thank you for that

[2:50:54] Voice 7: uh trustee elliot oh

[2:51:00] Trustee Elliott: thank you chair

[2:51:01] Trustee Elliott: This is a live question right now for Gabriola.

[2:51:05] Trustee Elliott: For instance, we do have one bay, Degnan Bay, that has had just a ton of derelict vessels.

[2:51:12] Trustee Elliott: There is a government dock, and there is an anchoring area, but then there's a bay that used to have a lot of eelgrass in it.

[2:51:19] Trustee Elliott: And because the zoning permits anchorage or moorage vessels, that is the authority that we do carry.

[2:51:26] Trustee Elliott: a lot of vessels are left there and then they're derelict and then they have to be towed out and

[2:51:32] Trustee Elliott: the eelgrass bed is destroyed so um through our ocp review uh we might consider prohibiting

[2:51:39] Trustee Elliott: outright anchorages where um there was an eelgrass bed or we might want it to recover

[2:51:46] Trustee Elliott: so i think that's the most practical application of of knowing where eelgrass beds are um but it

[2:51:53] Trustee Elliott: It also supports Indigenous food sources.

[2:51:56] Trustee Elliott: Eelgrass are the forage feeding grounds for many larger fish and mammals.

[2:52:03] Trustee Elliott: And without those, you know, sustainable fisheries could really be depleted.

[2:52:11] Trustee Elliott: So it's actually a reconciliation-related initiative as well, doing our part to ensure that traditional food sources are protected.

[2:52:21] Trustee Elliott: Um, so I fully support moving through, moving forward with phase two of the eelgrass kelp bed forest mapping. However, I'd like to see if we can contact, um, the, those First Nations that have marine divisions that are already active in the water.

[2:52:43] Trustee Elliott: There are two that come to mind, Snonamik First Nation Marine Division has had a very active role in mapping and developing a baseline inventory in their territories around, in Snonamik territory, and I've been informed that they've been doing the baseline mapping for many years.

[2:53:04] Trustee Elliott: So I don't know to what extent and if that information is shareable, but I think it would be a great opportunity to engage and ask if there could be either data sharing or if they would be the contractor eventually to do this follow-on mapping.

[2:53:28] Trustee Elliott: mapping um and then say out marine division comes to mind in the south and um they do have

[2:53:37] Trustee Elliott: they do state that one of their goals is to protect the biodiversity and ecological integrity

[2:53:43] Trustee Elliott: of the waters so um and they have asserted their jurisdiction over marine habitat

[2:53:51] Trustee Elliott: So I would be interested to see if this could be maybe brought back after some inquiries or investigation with relevant First Nations to see if we could develop some data sharing, if they've already done the mapping, and that we might be able to use that and or any interest and opportunity in being the contractors to do that.

[2:54:19] Trustee Elliott: thank you thank you trustee

[2:54:23] Voice 7: campbell i

[2:54:25] Voice 3: guess i sort of had two two questions

[2:54:29] Voice 3: um i and this is just from possibly my own ignorance as to how the whole

[2:54:37] Voice 3: our whole organization runs but i wondered why something like eelgrass and kelp forests

[2:54:44] Voice 3: weren't sort of investigated under the Conservancy because they have some

[2:54:53] Voice 3: biologists and whatnot and so that that was just sort of initial an initial

[2:55:01] Voice 3: thought and then the second part was very much along the lines of what trusty

[2:55:05] Voice 3: Elliott was just talking about is that there are quite a few indigenous groups

[2:55:13] Voice 3: groups that are doing, actively doing work for this and getting funding from the government.

[2:55:19] Voice 3: And I thought it was interesting that Mark Carney gave a speech a couple of days ago

[2:55:25] Voice 3: where he talked about really doing things in partnership with First Nations.

[2:55:35] Voice 3: And I wondered if this something like this isn't an opportunity for us at the trust to develop, maybe not even necessarily taking on the role of doing it, but more of a support to have someone else do it or an encouragement, I guess.

[2:55:58] Voice 3: Yes. And so, yeah, so those, I mean, the conservancy question is just, I structurally don't understand why stuff like that isn't maybe done through the conservancy.

[2:56:12] Voice 3: But then the second part being our role in it with First Nations.

[2:56:20] Voice 3: okay

[2:56:22] Voice 7: thank you um so i've put myself on the list and i could echo a lot of the things that

[2:56:30] Voice 7: uh people have said i have a real concern about the fact that we are doing like when i read this

[2:56:36] Voice 7: and look at what we've done it either is or it seems like it's kind of an isolation i have

[2:56:43] Voice 7: a concern that it's subtitle to intertitle. We don't have real jurisdiction there. If we could

[2:56:53] Voice 7: buy this data set and bring it into our atlas of whatever kind, I would see that as a completely

[2:57:02] Voice 7: reasonable thing to do to inform us. But I don't see our role as actually acquiring that data.

[2:57:10] Voice 7: I worry about the fact that how do we sustain it?

[2:57:15] Voice 7: You know, how often do we have to refresh it?

[2:57:18] Voice 7: What's the sort of go forward plan in terms of, you know, seeing how it changes and when it when we need to adjust our course of action with respect to land planning?

[2:57:33] Voice 7: I just feel there was a symposium, I believe, at the end of last year, an eelgrass symposium, where a lot of different people went and talked about work being done by different organisations, including First Nations.

[2:57:49] Voice 7: And I feel like we should, at the very least, we should align ourselves with that.

[2:57:56] Voice 7: I almost see our role as similar to the way that we enable other forums in that we're a kind of a supporting participant rather than, you know, doing it in isolation.

[2:58:12] Voice 7: I know it's not strictly true, but, you know, and I do think that the Ireland's Trust Conservancy probably had a bigger, wider skill set and understanding of how the data could be used.

[2:58:25] Voice 7: and I wonder about like we paid for a survey in 2014 we paid for a survey 2018 to 2021

[2:58:36] Voice 7: and the degree to which that data is actively being used on a daily basis a lot of the areas

[2:58:43] Voice 7: where you know say a doc I mean there are no docs now but areas that might be affected by an

[2:58:51] Voice 7: application of one kind or another that we might be consulted on there aren't very many and i do

[2:58:57] Voice 7: agree that eelgrass is very important but we could address it on an as needed or ad hoc basis for

[2:59:04] Voice 7: instance the bay on gabriola i'd rather see a more targeted approach uh so i'll stop and get back to

[2:59:12] Voice 7: my business of chairing and i'll move on to i think stephan did you want to speak or i'll let

[2:59:18] Voice 7: I'll let Trustee Borthwick speak first, and then you can answer, round it all up.

[2:59:24] Voice 7: Go ahead, Trustee Borthwick.

[2:59:25] Voice 11: Well, I think I might possibly be speaking at least a little bit in line with what Stefan may be about to say, at least in part.

[2:59:35] Voice 11: And I want to be very clear when I say this.

[2:59:39] Voice 11: I understand we do a lot of business.

[2:59:43] Voice 11: This is something that we have talked about at quite great length for many years now.

[2:59:50] Voice 11: In my recollection of this committee, this is not a new topic.

[2:59:55] Voice 11: This is something that we know.

[2:59:56] Voice 11: I think we all appreciate and.

[3:00:00] Voice 11: recognize the value of eelgrass. I think that's not in any way a controversial statement.

[3:00:05] Voice 11: This is something we've talked about at great length. These are questions we've asked previously.

[3:00:11] Voice 11: I would hope that Director Cermak is going to give us some guidance on people who may be doing

[3:00:17] Voice 11: this work as well. And we have broached this question on a number of occasions as to,

[3:00:24] Voice 11: is there someone else who may be better suited to hold this work? And I've been the person to

[3:00:29] Voice 11: to ask that question uh you know that was that was my first brush at it you know when in our one of

[3:00:35] Voice 11: our first committee meetings um and i still you know i still would very much like to see us do

[3:00:40] Voice 11: this work in partnership or in support of someone else i i i also fail to to see why we're necessarily

[3:00:47] Voice 11: best place to hold it um and i know that that said i know that director cermak has said in the past

[3:00:55] Voice 11: that it's partly just that no one else is doing it uh and that's that's partly it i don't think

[3:01:01] Voice 11: that that's the case i know that that's i know that the province is doing things i know that

[3:01:04] Voice 11: the nations are doing things i know that the comox are doing things in addition if we want

[3:01:08] Voice 11: to talk about other nations that have got work on this front um so but that is certainly what

[3:01:13] Voice 11: i've heard in the past and there's been a a a um a bit of a fire held to our feet in terms of like

[3:01:19] Voice 11: well if we don't don't do this we'll lose the value of that previous work there was the whole

[3:01:24] Voice 11: discussion which i we haven't talked about today of like well why was that first work incomplete

[3:01:28] Voice 11: that was you know that's stuff that just happens that was the answer we got like you know sometimes

[3:01:33] Voice 11: data's incomplete that's that's a thing that happens um there's no there's no blame uh

[3:01:39] Voice 11: personally on that front but there are people who are doing this work i see that that our chair has

[3:01:45] Voice 11: put the main conservancy yet they were one of the people that i was thinking about um so there's

[3:01:49] Voice 11: lots of that but I and I I want to be very respectful to my other trustees we have had

[3:01:56] Voice 11: this conversation before and some of you are coming across a little bit like this is the

[3:01:59] Voice 11: first time we're talking about it and that's I don't know I'm not frustrated but I'm like

[3:02:04] Voice 11: what's going on we we know this stuff we've done this before this should be doesn't need to be a

[3:02:10] Voice 11: long conversation um anyways I I apologize for my possibly undue candor thank you okay go ahead

[3:02:20] Voice 7: stephen thank

[3:02:23] Voice 1: you well there's a lot of questions to answer there um i will start with the you know

[3:02:27] Voice 1: there was a this mapping uh phase one phase two uh was proposed early in 2020 um the trust council

[3:02:38] Voice 1: supported that with the understanding that there was going to be a second phase um however we

[3:02:43] Voice 1: changed directors at that time i came on board so they were not they the grant the project was

[3:02:49] Voice 1: because phase one was supported with the understanding that staff would apply for a

[3:02:54] Voice 1: grant to support 50% of the cost. They were unsuccessful in getting that grant. And so

[3:02:59] Voice 1: they came back the following year and said, we were unsuccessful. We need the remainder of 50,000,

[3:03:06] Voice 1: you know, to top up the 50% to finish phase one. That business case didn't really talk about phase

[3:03:11] Voice 1: two. It's just because there was assumed, yep, we were still in phase one. It didn't get finished.

[3:03:16] Voice 1: That's when I came on board seeing that business case, and I only saw the phase one.

[3:03:19] Voice 1: So there's a slight miscommunication for only that one year when we got the product that looked like it was phase one only.

[3:03:26] Voice 1: We fixed that problem.

[3:03:27] Voice 1: We came back to you and said, no, phase two was always part of the plan.

[3:03:31] Voice 1: It was approved by Trust Council.

[3:03:33] Voice 1: It's approved in the Trust Council strategic plan.

[3:03:36] Voice 1: All you need to do is sort of advance the business case, at which point this regional planning committee has not been able to do that.

[3:03:42] Voice 1: So I really would like to emphasize that Trust Council approved the original business case, as well as the it's a key initiative to get done. So I think what we're talking about is, is funding or data sources or the things like that.

[3:03:56] Voice 1: so the other question was about islands trust conservancy why don't they do it and they were

[3:04:03] Voice 1: in fact in charge of the project in 2012 to 2014 they worked with groups such as main conservancy

[3:04:09] Voice 1: sea change and others and they coordinate the funding or the mapping over a three-year period

[3:04:15] Voice 1: i believe and what that's the that's the mapping that we have been using since and there's a

[3:04:22] Voice 1: difference between that mapping then and what's been done in phase one and in the most basic way

[3:04:28] Voice 1: is the mapping in 2012 and 14 provided a line on a map showing this here's a band on the map showing

[3:04:36] Voice 1: this is where eelgrass is or or kelp and this and by it's not there that's where it does not

[3:04:42] Voice 1: this mapping phase one was proposed to be more three-dimensional or actually more two-dimensional

[3:04:48] Voice 1: It provides a polygon, not just a line on a map, but it actually shows the field, the meadow, if you will.

[3:04:56] Voice 1: So it's different, which brings me to another point.

[3:04:59] Voice 1: All these different mapping exercises going on, Maine, their main conservancy, their purpose is to restore eelgrass that they know of.

[3:05:08] Voice 1: A lot of it's from the trust mapping and just their common knowledge.

[3:05:13] Voice 1: So they're going out restoring areas.

[3:05:15] Voice 1: They're not necessarily mapping in a three-dimensional way, and so on and so forth.

[3:05:20] Voice 1: Each agency is doing mapping for their own purpose, and they're using different methods.

[3:05:25] Voice 1: They're using different inputs, outputs, and meshing data, as I suppose William is still online, is inherently challenging.

[3:05:35] Voice 1: So we're trying to, like it's comparing apples to oranges in different circumstances.

[3:05:40] Voice 1: So the why is planning, recommending we do this mapping, it's because we need evidence in order to protect something and we need the up to date data as already approved by Trust Council to protect, preserve and protect eelgrass.

[3:05:59] Voice 1: eelgrass and it we certainly could go out and ask um all the various agencies and nations we can

[3:06:06] Voice 1: think of what they're doing and it it'd be wrong to think we haven't been doing that to some degree

[3:06:11] Voice 1: we kind of go to certain bullet sources you know i go to the province talk to environmental

[3:06:15] Voice 1: scientists and groups again i'll use sea change as an example they kind of they have uh their

[3:06:22] Voice 1: whole purpose is to collaborate in finding data sources and putting them all together in one place

[3:06:27] Voice 1: So we've been using it in whatever context we can in the time we have.

[3:06:31] Voice 1: But we haven't had the resources to go knocking on the doors of everybody who may or may not have different data source.

[3:06:38] Voice 1: And we haven't had the time to assess how that meshes with what we already have or what we want.

[3:06:44] Voice 1: This is a much cleaner way for us to get the data we need for planning to protect the place as per our mandate.

[3:06:51] Voice 1: And then we can share that data out.

[3:06:53] Voice 1: And then those conservancy groups can then use that data how they feel fit to restore that First Nations can go and use that data as they wish and so on and so forth. So we can be a partner in this data sourcing as opposed to, you know, seeking elsewhere and avoiding and not doing it.

[3:07:12] Voice 1: And I'm sorry if I'm passionate about it, but it's very frustrating from a staff perspective to have this linger on.

[3:07:18] Voice 1: And it's a very vital piece of data that as a planner, I could use.

[3:07:22] Voice 1: And I'll just give you one example.

[3:07:25] Voice 1: On Salt Spring, when we had a technical amendment map update, that we were able to put new eelgrass mapping and bull kelp mapping into our bylaw at the time.

[3:07:38] Voice 1: and we were able then to say no you can't have a you know a particular dock in that certain way or

[3:07:44] Voice 1: if you do it's got to be done in a certain way so you know as planning we only tell people what they

[3:07:51] Voice 1: can do or they can do it and sometimes how they can do it and this data is really important for

[3:07:56] Voice 1: that protecting that vital eelgrass and as you say you know the importance of eelgrass from a

[3:08:02] Voice 1: planner if we can't map and can't get the up-to-date data that's trusted trust wide right

[3:08:08] Voice 1: if we're going to do it spotty per ltc then we're just not going to have that data so anyways

[3:08:15] Voice 7: trustee borthwick and

[3:08:18] Voice 11: stefan and like i say we've we've we've talked about this stuff before

[3:08:22] Voice 11: director so my god i'm stefan um again i i think the the thing is is this is there's not a lack

[3:08:31] Voice 11: of understanding on this committee and and this has been represented out that there seems to be

[3:08:37] Voice 11: some confusion or unwillingness for us to uh uh you know you know seek the the the acquisition

[3:08:45] Voice 11: of this data i don't think there's anybody here who is who is against the collection of this data

[3:08:50] Voice 11: or doesn't appreciate its value to to planning i don't i don't unless i'm missing some something

[3:08:58] Voice 11: thing on this committee i think we're all very much in favor of supplying you with this data

[3:09:02] Voice 11: our job as the trustees and and as you know people providing leadership to this is to

[3:09:09] Voice 11: make sure that we do this in the best ways and i think the the question that that certainly i have

[3:09:16] Voice 11: that i don't feel is necessarily being answered and i understand that the need for something that

[3:09:20] Voice 11: is unified across the the the islands trust area my my thinking is also broader if the province is

[3:09:26] Voice 11: doing some of this work, if there's other people doing this work, why is it that the

[3:09:30] Voice 11: Islands Trust is the best suited to be the collator of this data from all these sources?

[3:09:36] Voice 11: Why is it that we, with our admittedly limited resources, and our planning department in

[3:09:43] Voice 11: particular, are not a data generation body by default?

[3:09:49] Voice 11: This is us going out and seeking that information, which I absolutely appreciate the value of

[3:09:54] Voice 11: and and support the acquisition of complete to the hilt i think it is incredibly valuable

[3:10:00] Voice 11: um why is it that we are uniquely best placed to do this and and it can't just

[3:10:08] Voice 11: and and and i and for also correct me if i'm wrong and this is this is a somewhat possibly

[3:10:14] Voice 11: beside the point but absolutely i totally agree this is a strategic direction of trust council

[3:10:21] Voice 11: part of that i think this was something that had we had held over from previous council

[3:10:25] Voice 11: council, which again, doesn't mean that it's not a strategic directive and doesn't mean that we

[3:10:30] Voice 11: don't have a duty to uphold it and work with it. But one of the first questions was that

[3:10:35] Voice 11: there was a differing level of confidence on this committee about whether we wanted to pursue this

[3:10:43] Voice 11: in those early meetings in that first year. So it's not enough to just say that, oh, well,

[3:10:48] Voice 11: you guys told us to do this because actually that was a previous trust council. I don't think any of

[3:10:54] Voice 11: of us have been opposing this but we are wanting to make sure that we're doing this you know in the

[3:10:59] Voice 11: in the best way possible for you we want that data to be in your hands um anyways i i feel like i'm

[3:11:06] Voice 11: retreading ground but and i apologize also for for my frustration here it's not personal um and and

[3:11:12] Voice 11: maybe maybe our our chair patrick who was in previous term and on the regional uh planning

[3:11:18] Voice 11: committee then as well might be able to give us some some context in terms of that but yeah

[3:11:23] Voice 11: Yeah, anyways, thank you.

[3:11:27] Voice 7: Okay, I just want to add a little bit

[3:11:30] Voice 7: and then I'll move on to Trustee Elliott.

[3:11:33] Voice 7: I just, I feel there's two different questions.

[3:11:36] Voice 7: Nobody doubts the value.

[3:11:38] Voice 7: Chair,

[3:11:38] Trustee Elliott: I'm sorry, but there was a question asked,

[3:11:40] Trustee Elliott: why are we best positioned to do this?

[3:11:43] Trustee Elliott: And I would like to hear that answered

[3:11:44] Trustee Elliott: before we move on to other questions

[3:11:46] Trustee Elliott: because I think we just keep cycling on the same things.

[3:11:49] Trustee Elliott: There's some good questions in there.

[3:11:50] Trustee Elliott: Thank you.

[3:11:51] Voice 7: Okay, fair enough.

[3:11:52] Voice 7: Stefan, would you like to speak to the question asked by Trustee Borthwick?

[3:11:57] Voice 1: Sure. So there are two bulk reasons. And one, as I said, last time the mapping was done,

[3:12:04] Voice 1: it was done by the Islands Trust Conservancy, which seemed like a logical group because they

[3:12:08] Voice 1: partnered with conservancy groups and it was primarily conservancy groups that did the mapping

[3:12:13] Voice 1: in a collective manner. It was, my understanding, it came to planning because it's actually planning

[3:12:20] Voice 1: planning that can protect that through our official community plans and through our land

[3:12:24] Voice 1: use bylaw in other words we needed the evidence in the planning department to um to do it so

[3:12:30] Voice 1: the conservancy in the last 10 years has become so overwhelmed with work that they wanted us

[3:12:36] Voice 1: to take on the responsibility and this is you know i wasn't part of this discussion when it happened

[3:12:40] Voice 1: but i can definitely see the value that planning services are the ones who need this data to be

[3:12:47] Voice 1: be able to support actually preserving and protecting as opposed to the conservancy who

[3:12:52] Voice 1: would be more working in partnership and cooperation and advocacy and those types of things

[3:12:57] Voice 1: so planning services could use this at a local level to preserve and protect and the second

[3:13:04] Voice 1: question now i'm so in my head about that answer i've forgotten the second question

[3:13:08] Voice 1: there was uh wires uh planning the ones who need to do it and what was the other question

[3:13:13] Voice 1: well i i guess

[3:13:14] Voice 11: possibly part of it is is is also like why is the trust in

[3:13:18] Voice 11: general like i'm not

[3:13:19] Voice 11: i i don't doubt i to me it's less i'm less caught up in which department of the island's trust does

[3:13:25] Voice 11: it to some degree i i if it's useful to planning there's no reason it can't be in our initiative

[3:13:31] Voice 11: and again i want to be clear i'm not against us doing this work necessarily but i want to

[3:13:36] Voice 11: have a really compelling reason before we spend a lot of money on it that's always been my point

[3:13:40] Voice 11: Okay.

[3:13:41] Voice 1: And maybe I'll add to that then. Again, merging and mushing data from different data sources is problematic in its own right. The idea is to have one trusted data set that the islands just can use. So if we don't collect the data, I mean, and clear, we already have phase one.

[3:14:00] Voice 1: So if we don't finish completing the data, then we don't have a singular source. And then we have to maybe find something else that's maybe available. And we would have to then ask, task our information services department to import data that may or may not be useful, which may or may not be captured in a local bylaw, which we may have to wait for them to adhere to.

[3:14:24] Voice 1: to so this way we can have one source of truth that we can we can we can turn to so it's a it's

[3:14:32] Voice 1: a regional approach which is precisely the purpose of this group is to take a regional approach

[3:14:36] Voice 1: to you know planning so that's why it's basically it's it's because everybody maps in their own way

[3:14:44] Voice 1: with their own data set for their own purposes we know why we want to do it and yeah i'm seeing

[3:14:51] Voice 1: trusting the other,

[3:14:52] Voice 1: squinting away, not trusting me, or maybe it's just too much sun.

[3:14:56] Voice 7: So I just want to say something briefly to some of that. So in 2014, there was a method used

[3:15:04] Voice 7: by the Island Trust Conservancy. And then we chose to use a different method in 2018,

[3:15:10] Voice 7: which, you know, has there been a comparison between those two? Like if it was a time lapse,

[3:15:16] Voice 7: as in we see changes so you know if there were changes seen in the part of the data set that

[3:15:22] Voice 7: was valid that would give us a good heads up i just find this too broad in scope too endless

[3:15:31] Voice 7: in scope like you know do we do it all again in three four years time should we target particular

[3:15:37] Voice 7: particular areas the way that main island works is it repeats over certain areas and because it

[3:15:45] Voice 7: uses it as an indicator and so i'd welcome the opinion of our biologist on the value of it like

[3:15:53] Voice 7: yes you know data is great and we should have as much as possible in as much detail as possible

[3:16:00] Voice 7: but you know we do have to challenge value for money acknowledging that eelgrass is very

[3:16:08] Voice 7: important and i just have a difficulty with the way this is scoped out at the moment

[3:16:13] Voice 7: and i i would love to see something i would love to see us either not do it or do it in a very

[3:16:21] Voice 7: targeted very very specific way in collaboration with other groups okay thanks uh trustee

[3:16:31] Voice 7: Elliot I think you were next and then trustee Patrick unless you want to swap around

[3:16:36] Voice 7: go

[3:16:39] Trustee Elliott: ahead trustee Patrick you've been

[3:16:40] Trustee Elliott: very quiet here well

[3:16:42] Trustee Patrick: I think I'm going to be supportive of

[3:16:47] Trustee Patrick: what you're bringing in or and just but broaden it I'm in the conversations that I've been privy

[3:16:53] Trustee Patrick: to in regards to eelgrass in my tenure here in this office is that one it moves and that's one

[3:17:02] Trustee Patrick: one of the reasons why we've been mapping over time.

[3:17:08] Trustee Patrick: So I think there's an important question to talk with First Nations.

[3:17:12] Trustee Patrick: Is it a present absence question or more is it an environment that could have eelgrass

[3:17:20] Trustee Patrick: where it's got the sediment, it's got whatever's needed for eelgrass to thrive?

[3:17:29] Trustee Patrick: because to me that would be more of a longer term mapping exercise of of identifying where it could

[3:17:37] Trustee Patrick: or should be that allows it to move around and when we do when we do face having a development

[3:17:47] Trustee Patrick: permit or something that's in an area where they there could be eelgrass they would have to go

[3:17:52] Trustee Patrick: go further on that site anyway to do further detailed or further analysis.

[3:17:58] Trustee Patrick: So I think a first phase makes so much sense to go back and work with First Nations.

[3:18:03] Trustee Patrick: And I think that's something we could do in the short term through this business case

[3:18:07] Trustee Patrick: development to get some indication on, is this the right question?

[3:18:12] Trustee Patrick: Yes, no, eelgrass.

[3:18:15] Trustee Patrick: Or is there a different question?

[3:18:17] Trustee Patrick: And then the issue I think you're seeing here as well, the wrestling of the cost. This is expensive. We know that this next budget that we're facing is already going to be having a similar dollar item for the elections coming up, which is going to put a bite into our next budget review.

[3:18:38] Trustee Patrick: view. So I think we have to really have good, strong confidence. And if this group is asking

[3:18:45] Trustee Patrick: some questions, we're not going into Trust Council with good, strong confidence to put the business

[3:18:50] Trustee Patrick: case forward. So I'll let Trustee Elliott talk about her motion. I see she's coming with.

[3:18:55] Trustee Patrick: Okay,

[3:18:59] Voice 7: Trustee Elliott, go ahead.

[3:19:02] Trustee Elliott: Yeah. It's not about the project. The project is valuable.

[3:19:08] Trustee Elliott: The work is needed. I do question, when you saw me sort of looking up to the side, you know, how different agencies gather data and store it and what kind of data is necessary. I do see that. But what we're talking about is towing a boat, towing a camera behind a boat to confirm polygons, which I understand are very, you know, commonly used.

[3:19:36] Trustee Elliott: used, whatever it is, somebody's going to have to do the work. If we prioritize First Nations

[3:19:42] Trustee Elliott: marine divisions who are already out there on the water to either engage them in conversation with,

[3:19:48] Trustee Elliott: do you have data that you'd be interested in sharing with us? Or would you be interested

[3:19:53] Trustee Elliott: in the contract to do this follow-up and so that we can develop the project together?

[3:20:00] Trustee Elliott: I think that's the sort of reconciliation lens that we need to be applying to all the projects.

[3:20:05] Trustee Elliott: Just assuming that we need to gather the data ourselves and then undertake data sharing arrangements, that's kind of, that is old school.

[3:20:18] Trustee Elliott: And I just, I see there's so many opportunities to partner with First Nations in the work.

[3:20:24] Trustee Elliott: So I would like to put forward a motion to request staff amend this business case, do some inquiries, explore opportunities for either data sharing.

[3:20:35] Trustee Elliott: or um contracting first nations for the work and then bring this back in october so but i see you

[3:20:42] Trustee Elliott: got your hand up stefan so i won't put the motion on the floor yet uh

[3:20:47] Voice 1: thank you trustee elliott i

[3:20:48] Voice 1: just the comment about i've heard you say i think three times about uh offering contracts to first

[3:20:53] Voice 1: nations you know our procurement processes wouldn't allow us to prejudge any of that we'd

[3:20:57] Voice 1: have to go to a an open tender we could make them aware of the opportunity but we couldn't say hey

[3:21:02] Voice 1: hey, you want to do the mapping, and that just wouldn't be appropriate for us.

[3:21:05] Voice 1: So I just wanted to be clear that if that was in a resolution,

[3:21:08] Voice 1: it wouldn't be appropriate.

[3:21:10] Voice 7: Fair. Okay.

[3:21:14] Voice 7: Yeah. Trustee Bothwick, go ahead, and then I just have a comment as well.

[3:21:20] Voice 11: So is there a reason?

[3:21:25] Voice 11: So I'm saying, yeah, like, obviously, like, I totally understand,

[3:21:28] Voice 11: and I wasn't surprised to hear what you just said in terms of, like,

[3:21:32] Voice 11: we can't just contract with one nation.

[3:21:35] Voice 11: Um, my, my question is like, this is a, this is a valuable project for the entire

[3:21:40] Voice 11: islands trust area. Um, we're not the only body that operates in this area. I think this work

[3:21:47] Voice 11: should be done. Um, if there was a, if there was a business case for, for this amount of money

[3:21:52] Voice 11: to contribute to an ongoing plan, uh, you know, that was, that was involving lots of other bodies

[3:22:01] Voice 11: that we were working in concert to make sure that we're keeping this data evergreen and that it was

[3:22:06] Voice 11: going to be working in consultation with other bodies to maintain it over time. That's what I

[3:22:13] Voice 11: would like to see. I would love to see us work together in our advocacy role to support this work

[3:22:17] Voice 11: in the long term. But the concept of everybody needs different formats of data and that we

[3:22:27] Voice 11: we thus must each go out there and gather it for ourselves is a bit

[3:22:33] Voice 11: maddening.

[3:22:33] Voice 11: And it's definitely what I've seen in terms of working with the Bain

[3:22:37] Voice 11: Sandika forum is that there, yeah,

[3:22:38] Voice 11: there's lots of people out there gathering data and lots of people out

[3:22:41] Voice 11: there doing bits and pieces. We just had a data, you know,

[3:22:44] Voice 11: our last forum that we held was all about data collection or actually

[3:22:48] Voice 11: forum before last. There's lots of people out there gathering data.

[3:22:52] Voice 11: I totally appreciate that we need it in different formats and that,

[3:22:56] Voice 11: and that, and that it's useful for us to have.

[3:22:58] Voice 11: all of that, not controversial. What I disagree with is that we each need to go out there and

[3:23:02] Voice 11: gather our own bespoke versions of the same thing, as opposed to working with other people to come

[3:23:09] Voice 11: up with a model of data that will work for all of us and that then can also be consistent. So

[3:23:13] Voice 11: we're agreeing on what we've gathered. Whereas otherwise, if we go out there and say, if we go

[3:23:19] Voice 11: out and do this project, we've completely mapped an area of eelgrass. And then a nation says,

[3:23:24] Voice 11: well actually we mapped the same area and our findings are different what are we going to do

[3:23:29] Voice 11: we're going to fight about it like that that's why not why not work together to build this data

[3:23:34] Voice 11: together share the cost of doing it because we all share have a shared interest that's that's

[3:23:39] Voice 11: what i would love to see and i would fund that 100 anyways sorry yeah

[3:23:45] Voice 7: um thanks and i i i fully

[3:23:49] Voice 7: support what you've said and I would add that you know the doing of it can almost become a

[3:23:56] Voice 7: communication tool it's a vehicle for bringing people together around the issues and you know

[3:24:02] Voice 7: it's almost like defining the scope because we should be looking for gaps in the data or how we

[3:24:09] Voice 7: can extrapolate from what's there and anyway I think we've had a good discussion about this

[3:24:16] Voice 7: and trustee elliott do you have a motion to propose sure

[3:24:23] Trustee Elliott: yes i do um and noting what uh

[3:24:26] Trustee Elliott: director sermac said about uh procurement policies so just leave off the last half of it

[3:24:35] Trustee Elliott: uh so and please let's let's have some discussion on this you know i i hear some pushback from

[3:24:44] Trustee Elliott: from staff that this is important and needs to go forward. So I really do want an honest

[3:24:49] Trustee Elliott: assessment. But as Chair Patrick, well, Trustee Patrick said, if this body doesn't have confidence

[3:24:55] Trustee Elliott: in making this request for the funds, it's not going to probably fly at Trust Council. So let's

[3:25:02] Trustee Elliott: make this as strong as possible. So I move that RPC, Regional Planning Committee, request staff

[3:25:08] Trustee Elliott: amend the eelgrass mapping business case to identify opportunities to partner with First

[3:25:15] Trustee Elliott: Nations marine divisions in order to explore the potential for sharing marine inventory data

[3:25:21] Trustee Elliott: to complete phase two of the eelgrass mapping deliverables for the Islands Trust.

[3:25:29] Trustee Elliott: Sorry, I just took out that middle section to identify opportunities to prioritize contracting

[3:25:34] Trustee Elliott: I think that might arise out of conversations if there's an opportunity. Let's say we can't share any data or it's not available or we don't get a response, but at least there's a line of communication.

[3:25:48] Trustee Elliott: And when the RFD, if this gets approved to spend the money, then, you know, using our relationship building model of reconciliation lens in everything, flag those opportunities for the active Marine Divisions who might be able to do it.

[3:26:13] Voice 7: Thank you.

[3:26:14] Voice 7: Thanks.

[3:26:15] Voice 7: my own comment would be um i would rather not limit it to first nations in that uh the symposium

[3:26:24] Voice 7: brought together a wide range of people so i don't mind if we make a second motion rather

[3:26:31] Voice 7: than bundle the two together but i feel like it's um to partner with first nations and other

[3:26:39] Voice 7: other, you know, active organizations.

[3:26:45] Voice 7: So I'd like to make an amendment to say,

[3:26:47] Voice 7: and other active organizations in the trust area.

[3:26:52] Voice 6: Yeah.

[3:26:52] Voice 6: Or

[3:26:58] Voice 7: other organizations active in the trust area.

[3:27:01] Voice 7: I'm not entirely sure which way it should be.

[3:27:09] Voice 7: Yeah, go ahead, Trustee Borthwick.

[3:27:11] Voice 11: Well, and assuming this is, you know,

[3:27:14] Voice 11: still, we're still working within,

[3:27:15] Voice 11: having not moved and seconded,

[3:27:17] Voice 11: we're still working within maintaining the intent um other relevant organizations does that i mean

[3:27:26] Voice 11: like active active i don't know why we

[3:27:29] Voice 7: wouldn't be consulting with inactive right so yeah sure

[3:27:32] Voice 7: that's fine yeah no problem yeah and i think that symposium there was a wide range of participants

[3:27:41] Voice 7: and uh there's quite a good write-up from main island conservancy but they didn't organize the

[3:27:48] Voice 7: Symposium. Okay, open the floor to discussion on this before it's seconded. Anybody want to

[3:27:55] Voice 7: comment? Okay, go ahead, Stephan.

[3:28:06] Voice 1: Just a clarity question. So the business case has staff or sort

[3:28:13] Voice 1: of has the recommendation sort of give you two options of kind of do nothing or proceed with

[3:28:19] Voice 1: phase two mapping what I'm hearing is an option three to proceed with mapping via this proposal

[3:28:28] Voice 1: right to work in cooperation let's say so I just want to be clear what I return to you within the

[3:28:34] Voice 1: terms of a business case is to return with an option three for you to consider is that is that

[3:28:39] Voice 1: fair enough is that a good summary of what I'm hearing I

[3:28:46] Voice 7: think so I mean I'm happy to leave to

[3:28:50] Voice 7: to complete phase two of the mapping but to me it's like it's more open than that because phase

[3:28:57] Voice 7: two as it's currently formatted which is to refine the gaps in the low confidence data

[3:29:05] Voice 7: is a little bit limiting but that could be the opening discussion but as far as I'm concerned

[3:29:11] Voice 7: all options are on the table with respect to us what Sam spoke to which is a cooperative way

[3:29:19] Voice 7: way forward to make eelgrass mapping available to everyone for everybody's use.

[3:29:25] Voice 7: Trustee Patrick, go ahead.

[3:29:27] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, and I think this address, because you can't engage in a conversation without talking

[3:29:32] Trustee Patrick: about what it is you're collecting.

[3:29:33] Trustee Patrick: So I think this allows us to have the broader conversation and make sure that it's not just

[3:29:39] Trustee Patrick: data sharing, it's also collecting the data that people really want and need.

[3:29:43] Trustee Patrick: And I think through a healthy conversation, we could end up changing the scope of work.

[3:29:51] Voice 7: Yeah.

[3:29:53] Trustee Elliott: Trustee Arias?

[3:29:56] Trustee Elliott: Yeah, it just occurs to me as we're talking that, and I've

[3:30:00] Trustee Elliott: I was looking at the phase one, or sorry, the two options, rather.

[3:30:04] Trustee Elliott: And so if the third option, we could just word it much more simply, I think, to amend the business case to include an option to partner with First Nations and other relevant agencies to complete the work.

[3:30:20] Trustee Elliott: work that just could you know you're bringing back another option uh to work with others

[3:30:27] Trustee Elliott: in order to to do this phase two and so i don't know if that's simpler and more direct

[3:30:36] Trustee Elliott: um but yeah that is the intent thanks yep

[3:30:45] Voice 7: i'm good with that trustee bothwick yeah and just

[3:30:50] Voice 11: Like I say, I'd love for us to find a way to create a framework in which we continue to capture this data in a way that is proactive and useful to us as a body and in concert with other bodies that need and use that information on a regular basis and who also have a vested interest in capturing it.

[3:31:11] Voice 11: I'm sure we have a real opportunity here to bring people together to say, hey, look, we want this data. We're going out to get it. Would you like to work with us? We'll share a much larger map, and we'll be able to keep this going on a much longer basis.

[3:31:29] Voice 11: But it means that we're not the only ones holding it. And it means that we can involve bodies like the Conservancy, which do have, you know, some separate, you know, their funding metrics are separate, but they may wish to contribute to it for conservation means we may wish to contribute it to it from a planning lens. And then there may be nations who want to contribute to it, you know, a whole variety of reasons to contribute to it.

[3:31:48] Voice 11: But it builds something that is much more progressive and stable in the long term, instead of it being a project that maybe we run out of funding for in two, three years.

[3:32:01] Voice 11: And then it falls apart.

[3:32:05] Voice 7: Okay. Trustee Graham?

[3:32:07] Voice 2: Thank you, Chair. Interesting conversation.

[3:32:10] Voice 2: The budget that is attached to the business case is designed to fill in the gaps.

[3:32:19] Voice 2: And so when you start talking about expanding the project, the budget's going to go up.

[3:32:24] Voice 2: So I heard there was some concern about money, and we have to be careful that we do a strategic surgical work in this particular case to complete the project as originally planned.

[3:32:39] Voice 2: That would be my hope.

[3:32:41] Voice 2: Yes, we all agree it's important.

[3:32:45] Voice 2: Yep, we've gotten some data.

[3:32:46] Voice 2: We've been told that some of this data is inadequate for planning purposes.

[3:32:51] Voice 2: So let's concentrate on getting that done and then perhaps look at collaborating, continuing, et cetera, and broadening.

[3:33:01] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Patrick?

[3:33:04] Trustee Patrick: I just want to thank Trustee Borthwick.

[3:33:06] Trustee Patrick: You're asking some very important questions.

[3:33:09] Trustee Patrick: This sort of relates back to the freshwater conversations we've just had.

[3:33:13] Trustee Patrick: We have a freshwater strategy.

[3:33:18] Trustee Patrick: strategy. We haven't been able to implement it and fund it. Here we have a data piece and you

[3:33:26] Trustee Patrick: are raising good questions. We know eelgrass changes and moves and moves around. So it does

[3:33:31] Trustee Patrick: need to be maintained and updated. And there's probably other marine things that we should be

[3:33:36] Trustee Patrick: recording as we were talking about kelp and other things. Do we have, we should be building a better

[3:33:43] Trustee Patrick: planning mechanism to make sure that the data does maintain up-to-date, that it has a shelf

[3:33:51] Trustee Patrick: life, it has an expectancy of being maintained. So I think that we don't have to answer it right

[3:33:59] Trustee Patrick: now, but I think as a group and as we as an organization look at our operational planning

[3:34:06] Trustee Patrick: and how we set up, you know, do we need more strategic plans in place that for specific items

[3:34:15] Trustee Patrick: like marine data, just like we do the freshwater strategy?

[3:34:23] Voice 7: Thank you. And I would add, so what is

[3:34:27] Voice 7: the role of the BC coastal marine strategy in this, which should be a kind of an umbrella that

[3:34:34] Voice 7: that covers all of this kind of data.

[3:34:38] Voice 7: I mean, they talk specifically about the intertidal,

[3:34:41] Voice 7: subtidal zones, et cetera.

[3:34:44] Voice 7: So I just feel like, I think I'm just re-emphasizing the fact,

[3:34:48] Voice 7: you know, what Sam brought up,

[3:34:50] Voice 7: which is we really need to figure out who else is doing what.

[3:34:55] Voice 7: I'm not sure, Trustee Graham,

[3:34:58] Voice 7: about limiting to completing the current data.

[3:35:03] Voice 7: I'm not sure if we do limit it to not changing the scope or the way that we target it, then the conversation is going to be very limiting.

[3:35:14] Voice 7: We're going to just go out and go, here are the gaps in the data that we collected.

[3:35:18] Voice 7: Is there anything you want to add or comment on with respect to what we're planning to do?

[3:35:25] Voice 7: I don't think it's a broad enough conversation, but I take your point about the budget.

[3:35:33] Voice 7: And but it's more like I just feel that the scope of work and the scope of the work of the first phase, even I would challenge because, as has been said, you know, it changes and we're creating a map that we then have to do again and again and again if it's to have value.

[3:35:53] Voice 7: you okay i'm not sure where to go with this so uh trustee elliott and trustee borthwick you have

[3:36:01] Voice 7: put two motions on the table um i think trustee graham would support the first one am i correct

[3:36:08] Voice 7: trustee graham um

[3:36:12] Voice 2: actually i think i would support the second one more than

[3:36:17] Voice 7: the first one

[3:36:18] Voice 2: okay

[3:36:19] Voice 7: so i didn't ask i mean to ask you to vote in advance it was just that you said that you

[3:36:24] Voice 7: You were concerned about the sticking to the scope of work,

[3:36:29] Voice 7: so I made an assumption.

[3:36:31] Voice 7: Okay, Trustee Elliott, go ahead.

[3:36:34] Trustee Elliott: Yeah, these were both my motions drafted.

[3:36:37] Trustee Elliott: The second one is just a simpler version to go out and work with other partners.

[3:36:43] Trustee Elliott: So I would like to move this.

[3:36:46] Trustee Elliott: Forget the first one.

[3:36:48] Trustee Elliott: I move that Regional Planning Committee request staff amend the eelgrass mapping business case

[3:36:53] Trustee Elliott: to include an option to partner with first nations marine divisions and other relevant

[3:36:57] Trustee Elliott: organizations in the trust area to toward completing the work thank you because that

[3:37:05] Trustee Elliott: yeah so it's not that they would complete the work but it supports completing the work thank you

[3:37:12] Voice 7: okay and do i have a secondary yep trustee worthwick or fine and would anybody like to

[3:37:20] Voice 7: to speak further to any of this trustee graham yeah

[3:37:23] Voice 2: thank you chair i think because the second

[3:37:27] Voice 2: and they both actually talk about completing the work which in my mind is completing the work as

[3:37:33] Voice 2: described in the business case so it's not an expansion of the project it's simply completing

[3:37:39] Voice 2: the work and this actually with the partner opportunities might actually reduce the amount

[3:37:45] Voice 2: amount of money involved so that's a good thing

[3:37:47] Voice 7: that's what i'm hoping for too okay fair enough

[3:37:52] Voice 7: um good um so let's go with that we've had it uh moved by trustee elliott and seconded by

[3:38:02] Voice 7: trustee borthwick i believe so um all those in favor raise your hands okay lower your hands

[3:38:15] Voice 7: all those anybody and not in favor raise your hands trustee campbell yeah okay one uh

[3:38:25] Voice 7: again so the motion carries thank you no i wasn't against you want to

[3:38:34] Voice 7: speak sorry trustee campbell

[3:38:36] Voice 7: did you want to speak i

[3:38:39] Voice 3: wasn't i'm having some connection issues for some reason so

[3:38:44] Voice 3: so

[3:38:44] Voice 7: your hand was actually

[3:38:45] Voice 7: lowered was it raised in favor then yeah it

[3:38:49] Voice 3: was yeah oh

[3:38:50] Voice 7: great okay just

[3:38:51] Voice 7: to be clear thank you so much um okay great so next we move on to uh the independent review

[3:39:02] Voice 7: of the freshwater sustainability strategy and so uh who would like to open the floor

[3:39:15] Voice 7: to discussion on that go ahead trustee Graham

[3:39:21] Voice 2: for me I this I see the second is the business plan

[3:39:26] Voice 2: looking at the growth management framework or have we already had that discussion did I fall

[3:39:30] Voice 2: asleep at that

[3:39:31] Voice 7: oh I sorry I'm going by the recommendations I'm sorry rather than the

[3:39:36] Voice 7: um uh the order in the well another second yeah so um i think it's because you

[3:39:49] Voice 7: stephan you recommended the growth strategy isn't in the um kind of table of contents under 7.3

[3:39:56] Voice 7: request for decision i'm

[3:40:03] Voice 1: not sure what to say to that but yeah i didn't include it as a

[3:40:07] Voice 1: recommendations so therefore it's not there but you can certainly go talk about these business

[3:40:12] Voice 1: cases in any order you wish okay

[3:40:15] Voice 7: um right well uh let's go with the independent review the

[3:40:20] Voice 7: freshwater strategy just that it's the second one there on that page is that okay with you

[3:40:25] Voice 7: trustee graham

[3:40:26] Voice 2: very good thank you sure

[3:40:28] Voice 7: yeah it was a little i think it's because it's recommended

[3:40:31] Voice 7: and not recommended sorry about that okay who would like to open the conversation on the

[3:40:37] Voice 7: the independent review of the freshwater sustainability strategy

[3:40:40] Voice 7: plus a business case that was prepared.

[3:40:49] Voice 7: Okay, Trustee Elliott, go.

[3:40:52] Trustee Elliott: Well, I take a stab at it.

[3:40:54] Trustee Elliott: I do support this business case.

[3:40:58] Trustee Elliott: I think it's well articulated.

[3:40:59] Trustee Elliott: It's a good point in the project to have an outside set of eyes

[3:41:05] Trustee Elliott: because I know everybody's been working hard internally

[3:41:09] Trustee Elliott: internally and um we do need an implementation plan so i appreciate that that's a part of this

[3:41:17] Trustee Elliott: so i hope that we or i would uh recommend we forward this to financial planning committee as

[3:41:25] Trustee Elliott: is trustee bothwick yeah

[3:41:30] Voice 11: likewise um i think it looks it looks really good i'm happy to happy to

[3:41:34] Voice 11: make the motion if unless we have a lot of other discussion we want to make around it

[3:41:39] Voice 7: um i have a

[3:41:40] Voice 7: question um so can you i i got a little bit confused uh to be honest stephan it says

[3:41:49] Voice 7: freshwater sustainability strategy review and implementation and then it talks about an

[3:41:56] Voice 7: implementation guide but then there's like 900 staff hours so i kind of got tangled up in are

[3:42:04] Voice 7: are we creating an implementation plan

[3:42:07] Voice 7: or are we actually doing an implementation?

[3:42:11] Voice 1: Great observation, Chair Boland.

[3:42:13] Voice 1: I had the same thought

[3:42:14] Voice 1: when we were talking about staff hours.

[3:42:16] Voice 1: A lot of that, sort of the assumption

[3:42:19] Voice 1: is having this freshwater sustainability coordination.

[3:42:23] Voice 1: And if I peel it back,

[3:42:25] Voice 1: we have a senior freshwater specialist

[3:42:28] Voice 1: who has been doing all the science

[3:42:29] Voice 1: that you saw demonstrated in the freshwater Atlas,

[3:42:32] Voice 1: been doing an amazing job behind the scenes.

[3:42:34] Voice 1: and what he hasn't had a lot of or i shouldn't say he's just had really inconsistent support from

[3:42:40] Voice 1: planning and policy sports in the past he's had justine stark he's had narissa he's had other

[3:42:46] Voice 1: planners helping him develop work other rpms myself robert so on and so forth and what we're

[3:42:53] Voice 1: trying to do is help him get some dedicated resources to make sure that all the effort

[3:42:59] Voice 1: that's required in terms of these projects are carried forward. There's a lot of coordination

[3:43:03] Voice 1: required to get all these people together to the table that's required. And you're right,

[3:43:09] Voice 1: most of that would be in this sort of implementation. But we baked it in here to help

[3:43:16] Voice 1: really do a lot of the legwork in terms of coordinating and bringing together the relevant

[3:43:22] Voice 1: people towards it. It might be a bit of an overestimate in terms of staff hours,

[3:43:25] Voice 1: but we didn't want to underestimate because I think that's what we've chronically done with

[3:43:30] Voice 1: this strategy and we really want to make sure we capture that and the concept was it's less than

[3:43:36] Voice 1: 25 percent of a planner's time and even more specifically we're looking to use that

[3:43:43] Voice 1: as part of the regional planning team to be kind of a project within the regional planning team to

[3:43:49] Voice 1: always have the support for the regional planning committee and because the regional planning

[3:43:53] Voice 1: community has multiple projects a portion of their time is captured here so that's a long-winded way

[3:43:58] Voice 1: to say it might be a bit generous but it was definitely felt necessary to capture those

[3:44:02] Voice 1: planner hours and you're right that you know it was partially anticipating implementation

[3:44:09] Voice 1: not just the drafting of the business case and stuff but there's so much so many other things

[3:44:14] Voice 1: happening with the strategy concurrently even without having to do the review that's kind of

[3:44:19] Voice 1: The final justification is that that work is ongoing, as you saw with the Atlas, as is with the communications, as is with each LTC.

[3:44:26] Voice 1: There's so many individual things going on.

[3:44:29] Voice 1: I hope that answers your question.

[3:44:31] Voice 1: Scrambling seems

[3:44:31] Voice 1: to be my method today.

[3:44:34] Voice 7: So anybody else want to speak?

[3:44:39] Voice 7: Go ahead, William.

[3:44:43] Voice 12: Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Stephanie, Director Cermak, for that.

[3:44:47] Voice 12: Um, again, like the, the, the staff hours, I think if I read it correctly in here, um,

[3:44:56] Voice 12: are not to implement future projects, unknown projects of the freshwater sustainability

[3:45:03] Voice 12: strategy, right?

[3:45:04] Voice 12: It's, it's, um, dedicated time to, um, to the review and the implementation plan.

[3:45:10] Voice 12: And, and if you go into the business case, um, I think we're pretty clear on how the,

[3:45:14] Voice 12: implementation plan is laid out and that will require quite a considerable amount of coordination

[3:45:22] Voice 12: between staff and with the elected officials to come up something meaningful. So I just kind of

[3:45:30] Voice 12: wanted to throw that in there. Thank you for your consideration.

[3:45:34] Voice 7: Sure, no problem. I might suggest

[3:45:37] Voice 7: that the name of the request really emphasizes the fact that it's kind of creating an implementation

[3:45:46] Voice 7: plan just to minimize confusion. Fine. I actually kind of like the effort and the hours that you're

[3:45:57] Voice 7: putting in and, you know, being cautious about them because what I was thinking about in advance

[3:46:04] Voice 7: of this meeting, I feel like we should be trying to extract maximum value from work

[3:46:13] Voice 7: that we have done.

[3:46:14] Voice 7: I feel like the Islands Trust often does work, doesn't complete it, gathers data, and then

[3:46:21] Voice 7: we kind of move on.

[3:46:23] Voice 7: But we should really maximise the value and the return that we get by really, you know,

[3:46:30] Voice 7: when finishing and working through things that we we've initiated and this would be one of them

[3:46:40] Voice 7: um okay so uh in the absence of discussion do we want to um move that this is forwarded go ahead

[3:46:49] Voice 7: trustee trustee Patrick

[3:46:51] Trustee Patrick: the one question i'm just sort of following up on what we were just talking

[3:46:57] Trustee Patrick: And what Trustee Borthwick had raised in the aquatic project is what's missing is the partnership piece here, a question. If we're going to do an assessment of our freshwater strategy, I think one of the bullet points that needs to be added should be about assessing, I guess, partners or something of that nature.

[3:47:24] Trustee Patrick: You know, is there something that another agency, like, are we doing the work because the province isn't?

[3:47:30] Trustee Patrick: I think that's a question that we need to raise.

[3:47:37] Voice 7: Okay.

[3:47:39] Voice 7: William, go ahead.

[3:47:44] Voice 12: Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Chair Patrick.

[3:47:48] Voice 12: We do have in the implementation plan to estimate resource needs, which in there is tucked in with, like, organizational need as partnerships.

[3:47:59] Voice 12: um i i don't see it like implicitly stated in the in the in the in the review um side of things and

[3:48:10] Voice 12: i think obviously that would have to come out first before we can estimate anything in the

[3:48:14] Voice 12: implementation plan so um good catch i i think that um we're cognizant that that including a

[3:48:22] Voice 12: a holistic engagement with all the First Nations in the trust area before October is

[3:48:30] Voice 12: likely a challenge. Like that's not what we're talking about, right? We're talking about the

[3:48:36] Voice 12: reviewing the opportunities we have had with governments and agencies and First Nations and

[3:48:42] Voice 12: then reviewing, you know, the gaps within that and then moving forward into implementation plans. So

[3:48:50] Voice 12: So perhaps I'll talk with Director Cermak, but we'll make sure that is better stated in the business case.

[3:49:02] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Patrick?

[3:49:03] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, I think just probably First Nations, all partners, yes, there's programs there.

[3:49:08] Trustee Patrick: But I think of a good example, like the Regional District in Nanaimo and their Drinking Water and Watershed Protection Plan

[3:49:13] Trustee Patrick: have naturally included Gabriola and are working in an active partner with Gabriel Island,

[3:49:18] Trustee Patrick: Whereas, you know, Cowichan Valley Regional District, who has also a drinking water and watershed protection plan hasn't been necessarily an active partner in Thetis. So I think that's the opportunity of this would be a question of how do we push that? How do we make that happen? Or, you know, or have we picked up the work that maybe they should be doing?

[3:49:41] Voice 7: Yeah. I'll go to Stephan before you, William, this time. Go ahead, Stephan.

[3:49:47] Voice 7: Thank

[3:49:48] Voice 1: you, Chair. Maybe it wasn't explicit, but we really made a point of ensuring that the focused review of the existing freshwater sustainability strategy, where of course we envisioned hiring a contractor to do that work, but within it was engaged staff and elected officials for input.

[3:50:05] Voice 1: put and remember this is just a review of of the strategy itself it's not necessarily

[3:50:12] Voice 1: anyways the point was to get it done within the time period that we envisioned i think if we're

[3:50:17] Voice 1: going to do within a year that's probably all we would have time to do maybe either select first

[3:50:21] Voice 1: nations but point is we want to make sure that the regional planning committee itself or elected

[3:50:27] Voice 1: officials would be involved in the process so just thought i'd say that that you know that we

[3:50:32] Voice 1: staff and elected officials were captured in there sure

[3:50:35] Voice 7: um okay william and then trustee patrick and

[3:50:39] Voice 7: then we'll try and move on okay go ahead william oh

[3:50:43] Voice 12: thank you um yeah and uh like uh trustee patrick

[3:50:47] Voice 12: was saying the differences between regional districts and we can even look at the differences

[3:50:51] Voice 12: between uh the health units um that you know that there's there's a lot of jurisdictional difference

[3:50:58] Voice 12: across the island's trust area and we can even evaluate how the the strategy aligns with bone

[3:51:05] Voice 12: island municipality um and and another

[3:51:10] Voice 12: large aspect of this and and i've tried to poke the

[3:51:14] Voice 12: bear on this a lot is to have some sort of audit or consolidation of of all of the ocps and lub's

[3:51:23] Voice 12: across the island stressed area and and the regulations with respect to water how different

[3:51:28] Voice 12: they are which ones are really old which ones need to be fixed and and how that can be fit into

[3:51:34] Voice 12: the strategy to then and then have a a plan to to work on it so i think i think there's there's a

[3:51:41] Voice 12: lot maybe just under the hood here that we captured in in large bullet plat like bullets like engage

[3:51:47] Voice 12: staff that in staff engagement could be a whole planning um you know exercise that comes out of

[3:51:54] Voice 12: that um one one word there so yeah thank you

[3:51:57] Trustee Patrick: jesse patrick well i just want to make sure again i'm

[3:52:01] Trustee Patrick: not hearing the same from um director sermac or um william shilba engaged staff and elected

[3:52:10] Trustee Patrick: elected officials on a review. I think this is a highly technical area. And I think engaging

[3:52:23] Trustee Patrick: elected officials, yes, we have input, but we're going to be all over the map of, you know,

[3:52:28] Trustee Patrick: should I spend a dollar, a hundred dollars, a million dollars to do this work? It's, they need

[3:52:34] Trustee Patrick: to be shown that we need to be doing this work, just like we had this conversation about eelgrass.

[3:52:39] Trustee Patrick: This belongs with us. We need to be spending that. And I think that's when the review needs to look beyond our staff and our elected officials, it needs to look at the other agencies that do own some of this work.

[3:52:56] Trustee Patrick: And, you know, is it, does it belong, does some of the work belong elsewhere? Or does it absolutely belong here? I think those are the questions that as elected officials, we need to have that, those answers so that then when the money does come forward, say we got to spend $120,000 to do this, this freshwater initiative, we see it in the plan, we understand it belongs to the Islands Trust, we don't have these questions of, is this some other agency?

[3:53:23] Trustee Patrick: Yeah,

[3:53:28] Voice 7: I'm thinking of the table in the strategy with all of the different parties that created an interface with the Honest Trust on this subject, which was a bit mind blowing, to be honest, but it would be worth revisiting that and maybe colouring it in green, red, orange, whatever, depending on how well that's working.

[3:53:53] Voice 7: but okay so uh so we're ready to make a recommendation that this goes forward

[3:54:01] Voice 7: um to include so the regional planning committee forward to financial planning for inclusion

[3:54:08] Voice 7: so is there a motion here in the agenda i can't quite remember to be honest is there one

[3:54:13] Voice 7: pre-count for us perfect okay would somebody like to um move this motion trust you both but go ahead

[3:54:24] Voice 7: yeah

[3:54:25] Voice 11: uh i moved that the regional planning committee forward to the financial planning

[3:54:29] Voice 11: committee for inclusion fiscal year 2026-27 budget business case for a budget business case for yeah

[3:54:37] Voice 11: the is fine uh for the independent review

[3:54:40] Voice 11: of freshwater sustainability strategy okay and

[3:54:45] Voice 7: is somebody going to second that uh trustee elliott i think you were first off the mark

[3:54:55] Voice 7: and um okay all those in favor i'll call the vote all those in favor raise your hands

[3:55:02] Voice 7: thank you and lower your hands and all those anybody uh not in favor raise your hand

[3:55:14] Voice 7: okay so that motion carries great okay um so it is three minutes to two o'clock

[3:55:24] Voice 7: and we i think what we have to do is um yeah we still have to do the growth management

[3:55:33] Voice 7: thing so let's press on with that okay the growth management framework uh trustee graham go ahead

[3:55:39] Voice 2: thank you chair yeah and the reason i i wanted to at least have this conversation um and in

[3:55:45] Voice 2: particular we're often criticized to um let staff do the work and we just you know do whatever we

[3:55:53] Voice 2: we do. But to be quite honest, we as trustees appreciate the work of staff. They educate us,

[3:56:00] Voice 2: they give us information for us to make an informed decision. So the decision to whether

[3:56:04] Voice 2: we go ahead with this, though it's not recommended by staff, it's something that it's a political

[3:56:10] Voice 2: decision. And just so that's why I wanted to at least discuss it. And I hear on our island,

[3:56:16] Voice 2: and I'm sure other trustees here on their islands, we need to know the carrying capacity before you

[3:56:21] Voice 2: talk about increasing housing even for affordable and we hear that all the time and yet the the

[3:56:28] Voice 2: staff report really does give a sense as to how complicated it would be to answer that question

[3:56:35] Voice 2: there are so many moving parts including lifestyle choices and so a lot of the data that we would

[3:56:42] Voice 2: have to collect to establish a carrying capacity for any island is is almost beyond comprehension

[3:56:47] Voice 2: engine in my in my view I mean you know as soon as you accept development with rainwater catchment

[3:56:54] Voice 2: that adds a whole nother question to whether your island can handle more people because you stop

[3:57:00] Voice 2: looking at groundwater but let's not even go there so I just wanted to say I appreciate the

[3:57:07] Voice 2: yes it would be great to have a cap a density cap on every island so that as a planning

[3:57:13] Voice 2: any government, we would have that limit when we make our decisions.

[3:57:18] Voice 2: It's probably something to look at down the road.

[3:57:22] Voice 2: It's a huge, huge request, and I think it's well beyond it.

[3:57:26] Voice 2: And I appreciate staff suggesting, well, you probably shouldn't do that.

[3:57:30] Voice 2: And I would agree with staff's decision on this.

[3:57:32] Voice 2: Thank you, staff.

[3:57:36] Voice 7: Okay, Trustee Elias.

[3:57:44] Trustee Elliott: So, yeah, thank you for those words, Trustee Graham.

[3:57:48] Trustee Elliott: I have a different view, I guess, that rather than, you know, just pausing on this development of a growth management planning framework now to be brought back, I assume, in a year's time.

[3:58:05] Trustee Elliott: Can we request that staff revise it to be a multi-year strategy with a little bit more work put into the metrics and defining the deliverables, and then the work could span two years?

[3:58:36] Trustee Elliott: So basically thinking of, could we have phase one, looking at the fall and winter of 2027-28, and then the following year, phase two with the outreach and engagement.

[3:58:53] Trustee Elliott: I think it would be more digestible if it was broken into two years and just knowing how long it takes us to do procurement and the level of staff hours that I think a project like this would take.

[3:59:11] Trustee Elliott: I essentially, okay, you know what, let me rephrase this, a multi-year strategy, but that a business case be developed for a pre-development of the framework.

[3:59:23] Trustee Elliott: We need to put some thought into what is this framework going to deliver, what's going to go into it.

[3:59:31] Trustee Elliott: And I see that as sort of before the RFD is issued, we have to have a very clear idea of what we're looking for.

[3:59:41] Trustee Elliott: So I wonder if we could, again, have another option not to limit the scope,

[3:59:46] Trustee Elliott: but rather to do some pre-development thinking and then make it a multi-year project.

[3:59:54] Trustee Elliott: Thanks.

[3:59:55] Trustee Elliott: Yeah.

[4:00:00] Voice 7: so um i've just put myself on the speaker's list um i i really like the idea of you know

[4:00:10] Voice 7: some sort of framework of data or goal or constraints or indicators i really appreciate

[4:00:18] Voice 7: um the discussion around i believe the state of the island's indicator report that was done and

[4:00:25] Voice 7: was never repeated and i feel that that should be looked at again and especially now that we have

[4:00:33] Voice 7: and maybe our biologists she might come up with some other key indicators and i feel

[4:00:42] Voice 7: along with the key indicator sometimes in the key indicator report there are um trends

[4:00:51] Voice 7: identified and sometimes they're very well substantiated by data that was gathered and

[4:01:00] Voice 7: sometimes less so but I feel like I would rather put effort into that which is an aspect of in a

[4:01:09] Voice 7: way preparing for a growth management strategy and then jump into the growth management strategy

[4:01:16] Voice 7: strategy. I'd rather go back, revisit that, make it better and make it the best it can be.

[4:01:21] Voice 7: And I was just contemplating, you know, all the different pieces of data that are out there that

[4:01:27] Voice 7: we don't use very well. And I made a list of, you know, we have that state of the island indicator

[4:01:35] Voice 7: report. We have the housing assessment, good or bad, but we do have it. We have a report on

[4:01:41] Voice 7: disturbance data on contiguous forests we have a map of kelp we have a map of eel grass we have

[4:01:49] Voice 7: the freshwater data reports and one of the key things that we don't gather and present very well

[4:01:58] Voice 7: is the so-called build-out analysis like what was the starting point for an island and what is the

[4:02:05] Voice 7: current situation and can we keep that up to date so that at the push of a button we have some sort

[4:02:11] Voice 7: of approximate value because a lot of the islands are approaching maximum build-out so it would be

[4:02:18] Voice 7: good to know that and to consider where to target our efforts and so I'd rather go back and see if

[4:02:28] Voice 7: we can extract a lot of value from stuff that we have already and then use that almost as a pre

[4:02:36] Voice 7: as preparation for a growth management strategy that's where i'm coming from so um i'll hand over

[4:02:43] Voice 7: to other people now thanks deadly silence okay could we uh stefan could could we make a proposal

[4:02:57] Voice 7: that we just that this would be i believe trust programs are considering a state of the islands

[4:03:05] Voice 7: indicator repeat is that true and the second question is would there be um outcomes from the

[4:03:13] Voice 7: biologists work that might inform us uh

[4:03:19] Voice 1: in response chair i do understand that

[4:03:23] Voice 1: there's a key initiative in the trust council strategic plan to renew or update the state of

[4:03:30] Voice 1: the island report and i believe trust programs committee is going to consider that shortly

[4:03:34] Voice 1: shortly that business case um so that's one oh my gosh i'm i seem to be phasing out my new home

[4:03:41] Voice 1: is quite hot i'm melting out here um what was the second question i apologize um

[4:03:47] Voice 7: i'm trying

[4:03:49] Voice 7: to remember the second question actually myself i'm like holy smokes because

[4:03:54] Voice 1: we both both are hot

[4:03:55] Voice 1: the rain went away and it's it's bright again um so that i mean the state of the island oh i know

[4:04:00] Voice 7: No, the second question was about the biologists that you have and stuff at the moment.

[4:04:04] Voice 1: So the bio, thank you.

[4:04:06] Voice 1: The biologist is working on ecosystem indicators, right, of being a biologist.

[4:04:11] Voice 1: And so, you know, I think there was a recent discussion about carrying capacity,

[4:04:18] Voice 1: emphasizing an ecological carrying capacity, not a human carrying capacity.

[4:04:23] Voice 1: I think there's an important distinction.

[4:04:25] Voice 1: You know, the islands could sustain as many people as we sort of wish with the right infrastructure.

[4:04:30] Voice 1: structure but the environment can only sustain so much development pressure so it's a bit of a

[4:04:35] Voice 1: different way of framing that so I would like to always call it the ecological carrying capacity

[4:04:38] Voice 1: so our biologist is looking at some of those indicators because she's looking at ways for to

[4:04:45] Voice 1: integrate biological information into planning decisions so she is looking at indicators like

[4:04:53] Voice 1: eelgrass like like other things like contiguous forests and stuff like that so she's drawing on

[4:04:58] Voice 1: data as you can find it and of course there's two other tools which I you know I should remind you

[4:05:04] Voice 1: of we do have a methodology for doing build out subdivision build outs on islands that's a tool

[4:05:13] Voice 1: five I believe in the housing options toolkit available online you can review the methodology

[4:05:18] Voice 1: if your respective LTC is working on a program that you'd like us to try to do that that's great

[4:05:24] Voice 1: we can sort of we can ask for that information it's not a click of a button of course because

[4:05:29] Voice 1: there's always nuances and how do you interpret data and it takes a little bit of time

[4:05:34] Voice 1: but it's it's available we've we've sort of refined the methodology such that that's doable

[4:05:39] Voice 1: and the other one was tool six if i can remember now i just let me get back to that tool six no

[4:05:46] Voice 1: it was tool potential potential suitable land analysis we're working on that in terms of

[4:05:51] Voice 1: of incorporating the data we have in it in order to help answer uh questions about where is it

[4:05:57] Voice 1: suitable where's good suit where might growth be suitable versus where it should not be and that's

[4:06:04] Voice 1: um that's a very tricky uh methodology and what's been hard is making sure we're tracking how we're

[4:06:10] Voice 1: recording that making those data layers and so it's very transparent and that methodology is

[4:06:17] Voice 1: being applied in current we prioritize using that methodology of refining it piloting i should say

[4:06:22] Voice 1: and refining at the same time for those islands those local trust areas that are doing ocp

[4:06:27] Voice 1: amendments and land use by law so we're working on that for the major projects that's where it's

[4:06:32] Voice 1: first going to be applied so that's already a tool that we're working on is the suitable land

[4:06:37] Voice 1: analysis and where it's a tool we already have is a build-out analysis those things are available

[4:06:41] Voice 1: but of course we're going to prioritize the work for that for projects that are require that data

[4:06:45] Voice 1: because our information services is very stretched to produce maps and things like that it's very

[4:06:50] Voice 1: challenging to get information services time these days so yeah i just want to bring those

[4:06:56] Voice 1: two things to your attention about those tools just areas go

[4:07:00] Trustee Elliott: ahead shoot he was done before i

[4:07:05] Trustee Elliott: quite finished my thinking uh but i do have a promotion to propose and thank you for

[4:07:13] Trustee Elliott: for adding those pieces about the biologists' work on ecosystem indicators

[4:07:19] Trustee Elliott: and the build-out maps and suitable land analysis.

[4:07:25] Trustee Elliott: Because I'm wondering if Director Cermacki could do more work

[4:07:33] Trustee Elliott: in terms of envisioning how this framework can build on the current year's work,

[4:07:44] Trustee Elliott: like the biologists work on ecosystem indicators the build out maps and suitable land analysis

[4:07:49] Trustee Elliott: does that fit in how does that fit with the framework and then what other metrics uh need

[4:07:56] Trustee Elliott: to be looked at so that's what i mean by sort of a pre-development you know scoping out what we know

[4:08:03] Trustee Elliott: and what is in play right now i i i hear you that this this work isn't ready to just kick off next

[4:08:10] Trustee Elliott: year. This framework is going to take a lot of thinking. So is the opportunity now to consider

[4:08:19] Trustee Elliott: a multi-year strategy and assess how the biologists work on ecosystem indicators and the build-up maps

[4:08:26] Trustee Elliott: and suitable land analysis will fit in? And then what are the next steps? Does that make sense?

[4:08:38] Voice 1: May I respond, Chair?

[4:08:40] Trustee Elliott: Yes, of course.

[4:08:41] Voice 7: Go ahead.

[4:08:42] Voice 1: I think the answer to that question may lie in the deliverables that the biologist is going to bring to the team and the regional planning committee.

[4:08:52] Voice 1: And perhaps it's best to receive that information and then ask those questions at that time.

[4:08:58] Voice 1: I don't think I can presuppose that question.

[4:09:00] Voice 1: And to be frank, I'm not sure I'm going to have time to pull.

[4:09:03] Voice 1: i don't have the staff either to pull in all those questions to put into a pre-framework for

[4:09:08] Voice 1: your consideration the easier thing for me was to create this business case and request somebody

[4:09:12] Voice 1: else do the bulk of the work right that's how it's the project has been designed right now

[4:09:16] Voice 1: but if you're asking me to find staff or or to find staff time to sort of reload some of the

[4:09:22] Voice 1: analysis about what data do we have um and what the framework might like work and what where's

[4:09:28] Voice 1: all the information coming from that would take a fair bit of staff hours and i'm not sure i have

[4:09:32] Voice 1: those staff hours i could certainly spitball but you would i would want to give you a decent

[4:09:37] Voice 1: assessment and what we're still lacking at the regional planning committee level is a dedicated

[4:09:42] Voice 1: planner to help and as if we've got the housing strategy which is next going and we've got the

[4:09:47] Voice 1: vital enforcement and if we've got the um fresh water we're kind of maxed out in terms of generating

[4:09:53] Voice 1: work for this it's easy enough to make a business case but might be hard to re-suppose the business

[4:09:57] Voice 1: case if that makes any sense but i could re-craft the business case to some degree i just don't

[4:10:02] Voice 1: think i could do much assessment and analysis that's

[4:10:05] Trustee Elliott: what i was thinking recrafting the business

[4:10:08] Trustee Elliott: case so it's a multi-stage approach the pre-development work that you're talking about

[4:10:15] Trustee Elliott: of okay how like when the biologists work on ecosystem indicators sort of completes at the

[4:10:21] Trustee Elliott: end of this year and we have these the suitable land analysis has been practiced and put into play

[4:10:30] Trustee Elliott: And we've had some, I think that's the time that it would be then time to develop this growth management framework, because then we'll have a good idea of what tools we have and the metrics that we need further.

[4:10:47] Trustee Elliott: So I'm not saying do the work, but I think this

[4:10:51] Trustee Elliott: business case could be amended so that the first stage is capturing the work that we're doing this year.

[4:10:59] Trustee Elliott: bring that back for you know maybe in a year's time and then the following year will be contractor

[4:11:06] Trustee Elliott: work to to develop the framework more fully does that make sense yeah

[4:11:16] Voice 7: so um i'll come back to you

[4:11:19] Voice 7: steph and then of course trustee patrick wants to speak i just have one thing to raise um could we

[4:11:25] Voice 7: as regional planning recommend request i don't know how to activate this but rather than leave

[4:11:32] Voice 7: it to each ltc to request a build-out analysis to actually do it across the entire trust area

[4:11:41] Voice 7: i mean to me it's a key thing that should belong in the state of the islands report it should be

[4:11:47] Voice 7: like a fundamental part of our toolkit and it doesn't have to be accurate down to three decimal

[4:11:54] Voice 7: points but it needs to be consistent across the entire trust and it needs to be kept up to date

[4:12:01] Voice 7: i know the effort there'll be a big effort to create it probably less effort to keep it up to

[4:12:07] Voice 7: date but um i really think that that's something really important and it it informs all the

[4:12:15] Voice 7: discussions about carrying capacity growth management like it's a fundamental piece that

[4:12:21] Voice 7: we have to do regardless and um i'd love to you know suggest request mandated in some way

[4:12:30] Voice 7: thank you over to you trustee patrick

[4:12:33] Trustee Patrick: i know i wanted to thank trustee elliott because

[4:12:37] Trustee Patrick: i think this is a big issue you know this this is a big issue when you when we create a business

[4:12:43] Trustee Patrick: case with a 211 000 line item to it it's setting it up for to be turned down because nobody likes

[4:12:53] Trustee Patrick: big projects. And I'm not hearing that there's, I think staff are doing a good job, but by phasing

[4:13:04] Trustee Patrick: it and really taking the time to develop something does make sense. So I think that is the right

[4:13:11] Trustee Patrick: approach is to come back with a multi-year approach, thinking of what skills we're missing,

[4:13:20] Trustee Patrick: what would help to build that framework so that it can be built out in a way that has strong

[4:13:28] Trustee Patrick: confidence in not just our approach, but we've worked with the community. We've worked with

[4:13:35] Trustee Patrick: First Nations. We have an engaged approach that's going to be successful. So I think it does make

[4:13:43] Trustee Patrick: sense to phase it out. When we do these big projects, we're going to fail. We're not going

[4:13:50] Trustee Patrick: going to get it through any trust council um but a phased approach i think has a chance and if it's

[4:13:56] Trustee Patrick: if you see where it's going we we could do it okay

[4:14:06] Voice 7: stephan do you want to respond no

[4:14:09] Voice 1: i mean this is

[4:14:10] Voice 1: the prerogative of the rpc uh certainly there's value in the work and creating a framework and

[4:14:15] Voice 1: the phased approach of course makes a lot of sense um you know i suppose i was a little bit

[4:14:22] Voice 1: bit nervous about the term like if we proposed a multi-year approach that it may get washed out

[4:14:27] Voice 1: over the course of this new term that we're going through so i was kind of concerned like

[4:14:31] Voice 1: we could get it in get it going get it done i mean that was honest that's kind of an approach

[4:14:36] Voice 1: i took with that one um so that's kind of one of the reasons i resisted doing a multi-year approach

[4:14:42] Voice 1: because i don't know what next trust council may or may not support it um there is an option i

[4:14:47] Voice 1: didn't put in there but was kicking around in my options generation table so to speak if you can

[4:14:53] Voice 1: call it that and that is in your terms of reference of regional planning committee or is a potential

[4:14:59] Voice 1: meeting with the trust programs committee and you know you could do that at trust council or

[4:15:05] Voice 1: something but you could actually have a special meeting where the two groups meet and to kind of

[4:15:10] Voice 1: discuss hey what are you doing this is what I'm doing and compare state of the islands report for

[4:15:15] Voice 1: for example, versus this growth management framework.

[4:15:20] Voice 1: Yeah, and this is part of the background work too.

[4:15:24] Voice 1: It's great to phase the work,

[4:15:26] Voice 1: but I still think where our staff struggled

[4:15:29] Voice 1: to put this together was some lack of clarity

[4:15:32] Voice 1: about what's meant by hydrological.

[4:15:34] Voice 1: And what was the other one that really was confusing?

[4:15:39] Voice 1: Geological, like what did Trust Council mean

[4:15:41] Voice 1: by a geological work?

[4:15:43] Voice 1: like so well we're actually

[4:15:47] Voice 7: going to have that via the fresh water atlas of course but

[4:15:51] Voice 1: hydrological baby it depends what you meant by that but so my point is maybe um maybe some of

[4:15:56] Voice 1: these things don't need to be there uh maybe some of that data point isn't necessary and maybe

[4:16:00] Voice 1: there's a regional planning committee and the trust programs committee can agree to kind of

[4:16:05] Voice 1: a master set of indicators or something like that or maybe you can influence what goes into the

[4:16:10] Voice 1: the state of the islands report such that it actually gives you the data you're seeking or

[4:16:14] Voice 1: do you know what I mean maybe there's we can do more with less like I said mine

[4:16:18] Voice 7: so Stefan have

[4:16:20] Voice 7: you prepared a business case for the state of the islands indicator or is there a business case for

[4:16:25] Voice 7: that for trust programs committee uh

[4:16:28] Voice 1: when I spoke to director fader she said she was intending to

[4:16:32] Voice 1: bring one but of course um she is a multi-faceted person and I don't know where she is and where she

[4:16:37] Voice 13: is

[4:16:37] Voice 1: not so uh i suspect it is i'm not even sure when their next meeting is but it should be very

[4:16:42] Voice 1: close to this meeting because of course we're all trying to get ready for um trust council and

[4:16:47] Voice 1: things so my understanding is there's there's a desire to bring that forward and the ideal time

[4:16:53] Voice 1: may be to meet between the two trust council meetings in september and december yeah i like

[4:17:00] Voice 7: the idea of the multi-year approach i like the idea of the close alignment and cooperation with

[4:17:05] Voice 7: the state of the islands indicators if not actually like that they're almost a foundational

[4:17:12] Voice 7: piece and then i wonder about you know things like um the next go around of the housing assessment

[4:17:20] Voice 7: is there any way to align completion of our framework with the timing on that

[4:17:27] Voice 7: um you know because they are all kind of components of the same thing and trustee

[4:17:34] Voice 7: elliott what do you think it was your idea to multi-year it yeah

[4:17:39] Trustee Elliott: thank you chair um i want

[4:17:43] Trustee Elliott: i think rpc is signaling from what i'm hearing that there's value in developing this framework

[4:17:52] Trustee Elliott: but for it to be successful it needs to be broken down into stages and needs to be less expensive

[4:17:58] Trustee Elliott: or just honestly it's not going to pass through trust council um we all know that so

[4:18:04] Trustee Elliott: So, I did send a motion in. I'm not sure if you've got that, Rob. Are you on the RPC list? I didn't. Let me just forward that to you.

[4:18:20] Trustee Elliott: Apologies. And the wording's not great. Oh, you did get it.

[4:18:25] Trustee Elliott: Okay, so the Regional Planning Committee requests that the business case for the development of a growth management planning framework be revised as a multi-year strategy, comma, and that staff assess how the biologists work on ecosystem indicators and build out maps and suitable land analysis be incorporated in that framework, comma, before the next stages are envisioned.

[4:18:58] Trustee Elliott: be incorporated in that framework comma for the next stages of revision yeah something like that

[4:19:06] Trustee Elliott: i'm always way too wordy so if folks think of a simpler way to we could just say that staff

[4:19:13] Trustee Elliott: assess how you know this year's work underway or uh the um current planning tools the current

[4:19:24] Trustee Elliott: planning tools uh in development um yeah how

[4:19:32] Voice 7: about the option to cooperate with trust programs

[4:19:34] Voice 7: committee on the state of the island syndicator separate or bundled

[4:19:39] Trustee Elliott: i think separate because

[4:19:41] Trustee Elliott: sure yeah i mean we could have a meeting with trust programs committee if i feel like we're

[4:19:48] Trustee Elliott: going to be stabbing in the dark to have two committees of trustees talking about what we

[4:19:53] Trustee Elliott: We don't really know, you know, frankly, this isn't, you know,

[4:19:58] Trustee Elliott: we're not experts in this area. We can talk theoretically,

[4:20:02] Trustee Elliott: but I think staff needs to give us a better sense of what will this planning

[4:20:07] Trustee Elliott: framework look like.

[4:20:09] Trustee Elliott: Can

[4:20:09] Voice 7: we ask, can we ask informally,

[4:20:12] Voice 7: even to see the business case for the state of the island syndicator project

[4:20:19] Voice 7: formally or informally? Can we actually look at that?

[4:20:24] Voice 7: with a view to seeing how it would kind of dovetail into this well

[4:20:31] Trustee Elliott: i think we're on trust

[4:20:32] Trustee Elliott: programs committee aren't we uh chair bolland and the the 30th is

[4:20:37] Trustee Elliott: the next sure meeting so

[4:20:41] Trustee Elliott: if that's coming

[4:20:42] Trustee Elliott: forward then we'll see it

[4:20:43] Voice 7: okay well uh yeah i'm i'm not but yes i will we need

[4:20:49] Voice 7: to just make sure that it comes back or is that we review it in some way okay i'm good with this

[4:20:55] Voice 7: i was going to say should we have another assess you have the staff assess how the biologists work

[4:21:00] Voice 7: on ecosystem indicators no comment and build out labs yeah that's fine yeah okay any discussion on

[4:21:10] Voice 7: this motion anybody want to second this motion okay trustee graham has seconded the motion

[4:21:26] Voice 7: Commission uh do you want to read it again just for the sake of clarity uh Trustee Elliott please

[4:21:31] Voice 7: yeah

[4:21:32] Trustee Elliott: sure I move that regional planning committee requests request that the business case for the

[4:21:38] Trustee Elliott: development of a growth management planning framework be revised as a multi-year strategy

[4:21:42] Trustee Elliott: and that staff assess how the biologists work on ecosystem indicators and build out maps and

[4:21:48] Trustee Elliott: the suitable land analysis I should put in there tools apologize it's already been seconded

[4:21:55] Trustee Elliott: tools would be incorporated in that framework before the next stages are envisioned

[4:22:04] Voice 7: okay so let's call the vote on that and all those in favor raise your hands okay lower your hands

[4:22:23] Voice 7: anybody opposed raise your hand okay that carries thank you okay so um i think we have two other

[4:22:35] Voice 7: correct me if i'm wrong stephan the two things that we need to um cover primarily are finish

[4:22:44] Voice 7: off the crown tenure application referrals and the housing strategic action plan which is

[4:22:51] Voice 7: a request that bundled in there we need a decision to update the strategic plan

[4:23:00] Voice 7: plan so um do you want to speak to that explicitly stephan if you don't mind sure

[4:23:07] Voice 1: i'd be happy to

[4:23:08] Voice 1: chair the uh the crown lease referral matter was already discussed so you're in the

[4:23:12] Voice 1: clear with that

[4:23:12] Voice 1: oh no you wanted a resolution to come back oh well

[4:23:15] Voice 7: let's do the seven let's

[4:23:16] Voice 7: do the housing

[4:23:17] Voice 7: strategic action sure first i was just going to jump ahead

[4:23:20] Voice 7: i was trying to see where the end of

[4:23:22] Voice 7: this meeting was going and how much time we had left so sorry it's

[4:23:26] Voice 1: coming okay so i'll make this

[4:23:29] Voice 1: short and sweet because we had this discussion last meeting at a similar time in a similar place

[4:23:36] Voice 1: in the meeting so uh

[4:23:37] Voice 1: take a big breath let's get some oxygen the the we know that the housing

[4:23:42] Voice 1: strategic action plan did not make it into the trust council strategic plan my understanding

[4:23:49] Voice 1: the regional planning committee wants us to correct that error this recommendation is

[4:23:57] Voice 1: is to correct that error,

[4:23:59] Voice 1: the first thing is to revise

[4:24:02] Voice 1: the Housing Strategic Action Plan

[4:24:04] Voice 1: as recommended in the report.

[4:24:05] Voice 1: We can go into detail about that.

[4:24:07] Voice 1: And I believe RPM Robert Kojima is still here.

[4:24:10] Voice 1: That's just a carryover from business

[4:24:11] Voice 1: we didn't finish last meeting.

[4:24:13] Voice 1: So I didn't tinker with that at all from the last report.

[4:24:16] Voice 1: What that says is what we can do right now

[4:24:18] Voice 1: in the Housing Strategic Action Plan, sorry.

[4:24:22] Voice 1: That's what staff are currently working on.

[4:24:25] Voice 1: to endorse that the changes that we recommended and to go back to trust council and recommend

[4:24:31] Voice 1: that the key initiative 2.3.2 to be implement the housing strategic action plan and i'm sorry

[4:24:38] Voice 1: my resolution might be tighter if i'd said what that's taking out and that was to do with

[4:24:45] Voice 1: nope i'm gonna have to crack that open my apologies it

[4:24:49] Voice 7: does say replace it does say

[4:24:52] Voice 1: replace and 232 my apologies it is so currently it says 2.32 is to design a plan to advocate to

[4:25:00] Voice 1: enhance community access to funding for housing in the trust area so i staff have proposed removing

[4:25:08] Voice 1: that and replacing it with implement the housing strategic action plan because within the housing

[4:25:14] Voice 1: strategic action plan you have several uh similar clauses about supporting um advocacy and funding

[4:25:20] Voice 1: and those types of things so it was just a cleaner remove and replace otherwise it starts to get

[4:25:26] Voice 1: muddy but that was staff's recommendation after much consideration I'll leave it there because

[4:25:33] Voice 1: if you want to talk about the options to update the housing strategic action plan as amended

[4:25:38] Voice 1: I have Robert Kojima here if you would like to talk about the strategic plan itself I'll talk

[4:25:44] Voice 1: to that if that's okay so

[4:25:46] Voice 7: anybody want to uh open the batting that's either everybody's too tired

[4:25:56] Voice 7: or they think it's fabulous and there's nothing left to be said i actually thought it was uh i

[4:26:02] Voice 7: liked all the amendments and i like the proposal to update the strategic plan i think it makes

[4:26:08] Voice 7: complete sense but anybody else want to speak to it and uh i thought you just said that oh yeah

[4:26:17] Voice 7: Robert is there go ahead trustee Elliot I

[4:26:21] Trustee Elliott: feel like today's my day to ask all the hard questions

[4:26:24] Trustee Elliott: okay uh if Robert's still there I do have a question about one of the items that's

[4:26:31] Trustee Elliott: completed so uh going down to page 100 I think is it 90 I don't know they're muddled up 90

[4:26:41] Trustee Elliott: of the strategic action plan under nine so number nine create a model engagement framework for ltcs

[4:26:51] Trustee Elliott: it says that framework documents complete it never seen it um it's just a plan for

[4:27:01] Trustee Elliott: how communities are in to be engaged in affordable housing discussions

[4:27:05] Trustee Elliott: um

[4:27:07] Voice 13: yep through the chair there was that uh engagement framework it went to executive

[4:27:10] Voice 13: committee was it last year that was the the sort of the cover document and then there's um

[4:27:17] Voice 13: the reason it works i guess it's a template um for the actual steps in them in a model

[4:27:26] Voice 13: engagement framework or model engagement strategy okay

[4:27:33] Trustee Elliott: thank you i remember that now

[4:27:36] Trustee Elliott: now um and then i had another question about 13 uh encouraged through communications from staff

[4:27:44] Trustee Elliott: ltcs to update ocps and then 14 so what we have going on on gabriola and i think denman because

[4:27:55] Trustee Elliott: we have the benefit of uh same planner and the regional planning team um are some workshops

[4:28:02] Trustee Elliott: coming up on well at least on gabriela growth management tools and discussion on okay if we

[4:28:12] Trustee Elliott: want to increase one type of housing options we're talking about the clustering small homes

[4:28:17] Trustee Elliott: what are the mitigation or ways that we can de-incentivize other types of housing that

[4:28:29] Trustee Elliott: that are not as supportive of reserve and protect.

[4:28:34] Trustee Elliott: And I wondered if this, is this considered done?

[4:28:41] Trustee Elliott: When you say completed, this is just sort of ongoing support

[4:28:45] Trustee Elliott: but what I see is there's a real opportunity

[4:28:49] Trustee Elliott: to capture a conversation that really

[4:28:54] Trustee Elliott: the challenging conversation about housing types

[4:28:57] Trustee Elliott: and different forms of zoning and how that relates to your OCP policies, capture that

[4:29:05] Trustee Elliott: through the active OCP reviews that are going on or the housing views and turn those into

[4:29:10] Trustee Elliott: communication tools. So I don't know if I'd necessarily consider 13 and 14 complete so much

[4:29:19] Trustee Elliott: as I think there's an opportunity to maybe turn that into a working demonstration of the links

[4:29:29] Trustee Elliott: between policies related to housing and then different housing configurations that explore

[4:29:37] Trustee Elliott: different zoning options is that just my creative imagination um

[4:29:45] Voice 13: sounds great sorry through the

[4:29:48] Voice 13: chair but uh um i don't i don't see that as part of the steps 13 and 14 it might be something

[4:29:54] Voice 13: different or something beyond that or could be expanded from that

[4:30:00] Voice 13: This is encouraging LTCs to update OCPs to facilitate the development of housing to address housing needs.

[4:30:15] Voice 7: Have I frozen? No, it's OK.

[4:30:19] Voice 7: Yeah, I'll just speak. I can see that there was a deliverable, which is part one of the housing options toolkit.

[4:30:26] Voice 7: And then there is a kind of an ongoing requirement to communicate.

[4:30:32] Voice 7: Are you confident that staff will communicate, like, for instance, you know, there'll be an election and suddenly there'll be people who aren't familiar with what was done this term.

[4:30:48] Voice 7: how confident are we that they will know that these options exist that there are these you

[4:30:56] Voice 7: know part one of the housing options toolkit um is there to enable these kind of new thoughts

[4:31:06] Voice 7: about housing thank

[4:31:11] Voice 13: you chair so um some new trustees will come in with knowledge of this

[4:31:17] Voice 13: They'll have read things on the website. Others won't. But typically an LTC collectively will want to identify housing as an issue that they want to address through amendment through a new OCP, a new land use bylaw or amendments to their OCP and land use bylaw.

[4:31:32] Voice 13: And through the development of that project, they become familiar with the options that are available to them to go through that process of going through the options and considering what they want to pursue further.

[4:31:52] Voice 13: Do

[4:31:55] Voice 7: you think, this is a complete lateral thought here, do you think there's a role in the onboarding of trustees to cover some key things like the Freshwater Atlas, the housing options toolkit, so that you don't discover them, you know, later?

[4:32:13] Voice 7: so there's a kind of as well as all the you know here's robert's rules and the agendas and blah

[4:32:19] Voice 7: blah blah you actually say and here are some key things you need to know like technical things you

[4:32:25] Voice 7: need to know and you know the housing options toolkit strikes me as one the freshwater atlas

[4:32:32] Voice 7: would be another one and i can you know maybe we have like two to four like key big ticket item

[4:32:42] Voice 7: item topics that could be covered in sessions like that, just for continuity. Okay, over to you,

[4:32:51] Voice 7: Sam. Go ahead.

[4:32:52] Voice 11: Well, just on that, and I know I'm always banging on about trustee orientation for

[4:32:58] Voice 11: next term, but I was thinking about this actually last night, which I wasn't going to bring it up

[4:33:06] Voice 11: today because it was too late. But one of the things I was thinking might be really useful is

[4:33:09] Voice 11: is as we gear up for that orientation process,

[4:33:12] Voice 11: it might be worth trust counsel requesting committees

[4:33:16] Voice 11: to submit a list of recommendations of topics

[4:33:19] Voice 11: that would be useful things for people to like,

[4:33:23] Voice 11: basically the way I was framing in my head is like,

[4:33:25] Voice 11: Stefan, what are the number three things

[4:33:29] Voice 11: that you wish trustees understood about your job

[4:33:33] Voice 11: at the start of term

[4:33:34] Voice 11: that would make the rest of the term easy and better?

[4:33:37] Voice 11: And I mean, I know you guys do that to some degree already,

[4:33:40] Voice 11: ready um and i i you know i don't think you did a bad job frankly um but just sort of how can we

[4:33:46] Voice 11: support um how can we make sure that we like really help develop that that that sort of early

[4:33:51] Voice 11: curriculum in a way that's really effective um from a from a broad perspective but then also

[4:33:57] Voice 11: you know i wanted to get some more granularity down into ltcs as well but that's a whole other

[4:34:01] Voice 11: their thing anyways sorry side topic so

[4:34:06] Voice 7: do we need a motion to do this stefan uh

[4:34:13] Voice 1: you know i think

[4:34:14] Voice 1: executive committee uh is um going to be pondering the trustee orientation kit i know that i'm making

[4:34:22] Voice 1: notes as you speak right now and i'm plunkied into the i've created my own orientation toolbox

[4:34:26] Voice 1: to make sure we capture um some of these thoughts were already caught so i'm actually making a note

[4:34:31] Voice 1: introduce new trustees to the housing options toolkit to the housing strategic action plan

[4:34:37] Voice 1: to the freshwater sustainability strategy and the freshwater atlas and so we have talked about

[4:34:43] Voice 1: internally separating orientation to the tools you have that you can use in your day-to-day work

[4:34:50] Voice 1: as opposed to this ongoing learning that you have the executive sort of talks about so

[4:34:54] Voice 1: yeah i think that's invaluable i don't personally need a resolution but if you want to make sure

[4:35:00] Voice 1: it's captured to EC or something you could always send them a little heads up but you have two

[4:35:03] Voice 1: members of EC here so no

[4:35:05] Voice 7: I think we lost one yeah

[4:35:06] Voice 7: I rely on the head on the heads up but I think it

[4:35:09] Voice 7: would help with these things which is like there is an action but it's kind of ongoing as well

[4:35:15] Voice 7: and we're talking about continuity and I really feel that it could if people really had at their

[4:35:23] Voice 7: fingertips not just the gory details of the toolkit but the fact that the toolkit existed

[4:35:28] Voice 7: It would head off a whole bunch of questions at the bus.

[4:35:32] Voice 7: You know, you could spend a lot of time digging around in that before you asked questions, which, you know, somebody might roll their eyes and go like, oh, here we go again.

[4:35:44] Voice 7: So, OK, Robert, go ahead.

[4:35:46] Voice 13: Just maybe an observation or a general question.

[4:35:48] Voice 13: So we put over the years, we put out quite a bit of effort into creating that trustee orientation manual or toolkit.

[4:35:56] Voice 13: Yeah.

[4:35:57] Voice 13: um and you know we'd certainly update it we'd add like stefan says oh yeah reference to the

[4:36:03] Voice 13: toolkit it didn't exist last term but would be added to that but i sometimes wonder like

[4:36:08] Voice 13: do trustees go back to that do they actually use that

[4:36:10] Voice 4: orientation

[4:36:11] Voice 13: package i

[4:36:14] Voice 7: did use it for quite a

[4:36:16] Voice 7: while but i what i found just thinking back on it was a little bit mixed was there was a lot of sort

[4:36:24] Voice 7: of admin procedural stuff and then i would love a bundle that said this is the admin procedural

[4:36:31] Voice 7: stuff which is how to do your expenses how to xyz and then separately like really separately

[4:36:40] Voice 7: um in my head it was mixed up it may not be you may be rolling your eyes right now thinking no

[4:36:45] Voice 7: no no that was all very clear but i did use it quite a bit actually initially i don't know about

[4:36:51] Voice 13: Yeah. But if it has things like, you know, what is a temporary use permit? What is this? What is a DVP? That

[4:36:57] Voice 13: sort of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[4:36:59] Voice 13: Christy

[4:36:59] Trustee Elliott: Elliott, go ahead.

[4:37:00] Voice 13: Thanks.

[4:37:03] Trustee Elliott: So I'm a little bit lost in the strategy still and concerned if we don't direct prioritization of certain elements that they might never get done.

[4:37:20] Trustee Elliott: And so I wanted to ask how important is the part two of the housing toolkit, because it's listed as actions that will be deferred because we don't have staff capacity right now.

[4:37:34] Trustee Elliott: So actions 15 and 19, although I'll note that the terms of reference for the water management plan templates 18 is one of those that is targeted for completion.

[4:37:49] Trustee Elliott: So maybe, Robert, can you talk a little bit about the utility of Tool 2, which I thought was going to be producing templates to make it easier for affordable housing groups to apply?

[4:38:07] Trustee Elliott: Tool

[4:38:08] Voice 4: 2 or Part 2?

[4:38:10] Trustee Elliott: Part, oh, yes, Part 2, sorry.

[4:38:12] Trustee Elliott: Yeah.

[4:38:13] Trustee Elliott: So

[4:38:13] Voice 13: part two of the toolkit was envisioned to be exactly like you said, resources and tools that providers of affordable housing could use, you know, based on feedback that's been received from providers and through third parties and so on over the years, what their challenges are, trying to build affordable housing to try and assist them in the process, essentially.

[4:38:38] Voice 13: essentially. So the utility of it, yeah, it's hard to say. You know, it was certainly identified as

[4:38:49] Voice 13: being something that should have been, that would have been phase two of development of the toolkit.

[4:38:59] Trustee Elliott: So if I could follow up, I do want to see this strategy updated, and I think you've identified,

[4:39:06] Trustee Elliott: you know, what can be done, what are going to be ongoing actions, and what is a future

[4:39:13] Trustee Elliott: action but maybe in the preamble if this is going back to trust council

[4:39:21] Trustee Elliott: to endorse and trust council well many trustees have asked to see the housing strategic plan

[4:39:29] Trustee Elliott: again there was far too quick of a pass the first time so if this is going back to trust

[4:39:34] Trustee Elliott: council as an updated document can we do a little bit of work to identify that part two of the

[4:39:42] Trustee Elliott: the housing toolkit, the need, you know, the potential and the opportunities there and

[4:39:50] Trustee Elliott: that if council were to prioritize it and fund it, maybe we could articulate a little

[4:39:59] Trustee Elliott: bit more what that would give to communities.

[4:40:03] Trustee Elliott: I don't want to change any of your suggestions of updating the strategy, but I don't want

[4:40:13] Trustee Elliott: to have you know miss an opportunity to say yep there's still work to be done but council would

[4:40:19] Trustee Elliott: have to decide to fund it so

[4:40:26] Voice 7: i suppose um what we're looking at is a work plan that you've come

[4:40:33] Voice 7: up with based on what you think our priorities are and your resources and um would i be right

[4:40:42] Voice 7: in saying that robert yes correct

[4:40:44] Voice 7: okay so i suppose is there an opportunity for us to say

[4:40:49] Voice 7: don't do this do this instead um

[4:40:52] Voice 13: if those the thing you're saying don't do and the thing is

[4:40:56] Voice 13: commensurate in terms of resources required with what you're saying do do if you understand what

[4:41:03] Voice 13: i'm saying they're not all

[4:41:05] Voice 13: the same right there are some are very much shorter and more yeah yeah

[4:41:09] Voice 7: No, I understand. I was being kind of literal, but I just meant like if we reorganized them and you then looked at your resources, you could potentially change.

[4:41:22] Voice 7: But I suggest at this stage of the summer and heading for Trust Council, that should probably happen at Trust Council rather than through us.

[4:41:32] Voice 7: What do you think, Toby?

[4:41:33] Voice 7: be we're

[4:41:38] Trustee Elliott: the ones most familiar with the work and i think our job is to make recommendations

[4:41:41] Trustee Elliott: to trust council so that it can um you know make decisions um so

[4:41:52] Trustee Elliott: um

[4:41:53] Voice 7: i take your point that um part two maybe um yeah i don't actually know what the best thing

[4:42:03] Voice 7: is to do now. I think we need to make sure that we update the strategic plan. That's one of the

[4:42:10] Voice 7: aspects here. And then in the absence of completely reprioritizing the work, we should leave it as

[4:42:18] Voice 7: is. But your point was to just describe what part two is so that it's clearer to people. Is that

[4:42:26] Voice 7: that right i

[4:42:35] Trustee Elliott: think that trustees are likely to be as puzzled by this strategy and the different

[4:42:42] Trustee Elliott: parts that are moving forward or not as we are um you know this is it's been it's it's a little

[4:42:54] Trustee Elliott: bit frustrating because we now we have a strategic plan that de-emphasized you know the work on

[4:43:02] Trustee Elliott: creating housing options that has been underway for a long time and skipped into now we need to

[4:43:10] Trustee Elliott: create a framework for growth management so we're going back to council to ask for direction that

[4:43:20] Trustee Elliott: housing initiatives and this strategy continue to be prioritized how will that shape our work

[4:43:29] Trustee Elliott: program going forward. That's very confusing.

[4:43:38] Voice 1: Great question. Maybe I can jump into that for a

[4:43:41] Voice 1: go ahead. In the RPC and other committees, you get three top priorities. As you know,

[4:43:50] Voice 1: the top priorities are approved by the Trust Council and your regional planning committee.

[4:43:56] Voice 1: And your current top priorities are by law enforcement policies update,

[4:44:01] Voice 1: date, freshwater sustainability strategy, the implementation thereof, and integration

[4:44:06] Voice 1: of biological information into land use decisions.

[4:44:13] Voice 1: This work that we're doing, the strategic action plan, was endorsed by Trust Council

[4:44:17] Voice 1: and it's been ongoing work.

[4:44:19] Voice 1: So that's why you have staff currently working on it and staff saying we can continue to

[4:44:23] Voice 1: finish the work that we've started this year.

[4:44:26] Voice 1: But in order to make sure we continuously resource the work, it has to get back into

[4:44:31] Voice 1: to the trust council strategic plan.

[4:44:33] Voice 1: So I think step one, that's what you have to do

[4:44:37] Voice 1: is get it back in the strategic plan.

[4:44:39] Voice 1: Now to make it another top priority to do extra work,

[4:44:43] Voice 1: like to do that more legwork

[4:44:45] Voice 1: than what you're seeing before you,

[4:44:46] Voice 1: this sort of ongoing work, the deferred work,

[4:44:49] Voice 1: if you want to put resources into it,

[4:44:52] Voice 1: then we have to bring it back to a top priority

[4:44:54] Voice 1: of the regional planning committee.

[4:44:57] Voice 1: And something's got to fall off that list.

[4:44:59] Voice 1: So that means I think bylaw enforcement will logically be coming off sometime in the future, hopefully.

[4:45:06] Voice 1: And then we're going to operationalize that, right?

[4:45:09] Voice 1: The regular reporting back on that, that will be operationalized to become a norm.

[4:45:13] Voice 1: The integrating of biological information, the grant runs out at the end of next year,

[4:45:18] Voice 1: although we will come back with recommendations to whatever comes about of that work.

[4:45:23] Voice 1: And the Freshwater Sustainability Strategy, as approved earlier, that will be ongoing.

[4:45:27] Voice 1: going so you know it'll be up to the regional planning committee to decide when those resources

[4:45:33] Voice 1: become available what you would like your top priorities to be and make that recommendation

[4:45:37] Voice 1: to trust council it seems pretty clear to me that housing option or this housing strategic

[4:45:43] Voice 1: action plan is a top priority for this group you'd like to see work ongoing so i think get it to be

[4:45:50] Voice 1: be on the strategic plan. Let us staff continue the work as proposed. And as we get a more certain

[4:45:58] Voice 1: conclusion of the other items in your work plan, then you can make that recommendation to trust

[4:46:02] Voice 1: council to make it a top priority again. And then you can evaluate at that time. Now, the anticipation

[4:46:07] Voice 1: of that, of course, is the big question about resources, money. Do we have money to do more

[4:46:11] Voice 1: work next year unless we make a business case? And we don't have a business case for you. But what

[4:46:16] Voice 1: What we could do, of course, just by making it top priority is dedicate that staff time, which will be just as critical.

[4:46:22] Voice 1: And a lot of this work, especially part two, is advocacy related.

[4:46:25] Voice 1: And it's been, we'll be asking Trust Programs Committee to take on some of this work.

[4:46:29] Voice 1: So it won't just be planners and staff to us.

[4:46:32] Voice 1: It'll be working more integrated with others.

[4:46:35] Voice 1: I hope that helps answer the question.

[4:46:38] Voice 7: Yeah.

[4:46:39] Voice 7: May I?

[4:46:40] Voice 7: Sorry,

[4:46:40] Trustee Elliott: did you want to speak?

[4:46:41] Trustee Elliott: Go ahead, Toby.

[4:46:42] Voice 4: Yeah, it

[4:46:43] Trustee Elliott: helps answer the question.

[4:46:45] Trustee Elliott: it's that sort of briefing that you just gave us that would be helpful to take to trust council

[4:46:53] Trustee Elliott: because we're in this chicken and egg thing where the strategic plan was amended

[4:46:58] Trustee Elliott: now we've lost i don't want to see the whole housing options project dropped because we just

[4:47:08] Trustee Elliott: didn't make it a top priority. So let's sequence it. As you've said, as these other projects wrap

[4:47:15] Trustee Elliott: up, council will need to redirect regional planning committee to continue work and pick up

[4:47:23] Trustee Elliott: some of these elements at a later date. So what you just said, I think is really important. And

[4:47:31] Trustee Elliott: that's what I'd like to see captured. And maybe it's in your quarterly briefing to September

[4:47:36] Trustee Elliott: council thanks yeah

[4:47:38] Voice 7: i think it's really good what you said stephan because i noticed that

[4:47:43] Voice 7: indeed you have you know complete in 25 26 then complete in the next fiscal year so unless

[4:47:51] Voice 7: something comes off the resources load really those deferred actions are going to be in the year

[4:47:59] Voice 7: what 27 which is a little far out so it would be good to make that little speech and to refer to

[4:48:07] Voice 7: bylaw compliance etc reaching a natural conclusion and allowing sort of space to open up and i'm also

[4:48:16] Voice 7: interested in the fact and i'm looking at the time thinking yeah that two of the deferred actions

[4:48:21] Voice 7: and one is sort of um number 11 kind of um dovetails into the growth management framework

[4:48:30] Voice 7: in the state of the islands and number 15 to 19 um no the second one was yeah working with first

[4:48:39] Voice 7: nations which is almost what we directed via the eelgrass survey was you know try and find ways

[4:48:47] Voice 7: to work on practical projects that move that relationship along so okay so i think we've

[4:48:55] Voice 7: covered those to some degree and that if there is space um in the resources later they can come back

[4:49:03] Voice 7: okay um so are we ready to make a decision about updating the strategic plan by consensus i am

[4:49:18] Voice 7: am reading that we are and so the um the recommendations are at the top and do we want

[4:49:29] Voice 7: to go ahead and move the first motion somebody and we should put in there as amended to cover

[4:49:38] Voice 7: the fact that we want um stefan's um context statement um added in go

[4:49:48] Trustee Elliott: ahead sam we both

[4:49:49] Trustee Elliott: both flashed our hands up we're tired

[4:49:52] Voice 11: yeah

[4:49:54] Trustee Elliott: uh

[4:49:55] Voice 11: yes i moved that the regional planning committee

[4:49:57] Voice 11: requests staff to revise the housing strategic action plan as recommended in the request for

[4:50:02] Voice 11: decision of july 18th 2025 and forward the revised plan to trust council for endorsement

[4:50:07] Voice 11: and

[4:50:12] Voice 7: seconded by trustee elliot or trustee campbell for a change yep okay i moved the vote

[4:50:20] Voice 7: hands up whoever is in favor raise your hand okay and lower your hands and raise your hand if you

[4:50:33] Voice 7: are opposed so that motion carries okay and the next motion uh would somebody like to move the

[4:50:43] Voice 7: next motion please go all

[4:50:50] Trustee Elliott: right let's let's go uh that i move that regional planning committee

[4:50:53] Trustee Elliott: Committee requests the following amendment to the Trust Council Strategic Action Plan

[4:50:58] Trustee Elliott: to replace Key Initiative 2.3.2 with Implement the Housing Strategic Action Plan.

[4:51:04] Trustee Elliott: Thank you.

[4:51:06] Voice 7: And seconded by Trustee Campbell.

[4:51:13] Voice 7: Okay, I call the vote.

[4:51:14] Voice 7: All those in favor, raise your hands.

[4:51:18] Voice 7: And lower your hands.

[4:51:23] Voice 7: And anybody opposed, raise your hand.

[4:51:27] Voice 7: Okay, that carries.

[4:51:28] Voice 7: Great.

[4:51:30] Voice 7: Okay, we're on the home.

[4:51:31] Voice 7: home stretch um i think correct me if i'm wrong stephan the only thing we have to to complete now

[4:51:40] Voice 7: is the um crown referrals oh and the work program yeah we should check the work program

[4:51:48] Voice 7: i'll

[4:51:50] Voice 1: leave it to you which order you'd like to do let's

[4:51:52] Voice 7: do the work program first and then we'll do

[4:51:55] Voice 7: the crown referrals and i hope everybody can might be an extra five minutes but um i hope

[4:52:01] Voice 7: nobody has to leave okay anybody want to raise anything about the work program no okay um i am

[4:52:19] Voice 7: going to accept the work program by consent and um it'll be reported to trust council yeah

[4:52:29] Voice 7: that's okay stefan sure okie dokes now let's go on to the crown referrals please

[4:52:39] Voice 7: okay back to crown

[4:52:43] Voice 1: referrals just one moment share i'm having difficulties copying and pasting if

[4:52:51] Voice 1: you can possibly imagine that i put it up in chat at 10 30 this morning you did let's go back and

[4:52:58] Voice 1: see i can't seem to be able to cut and paste that into my no you can't i

[4:53:02] Voice 7: think it gets sort of

[4:53:03] Voice 7: locked down unfortunately yeah uh

[4:53:06] Voice 1: okay so well the resolution i'll read it to you um yeah and that is

[4:53:11] Voice 1: that regional planning committee request staff to report back on trust council policies held

[4:53:16] Voice 1: by the director of planning services to address trust council's key initiatives to review and

[4:53:20] Voice 1: where appropriate amend combined or rescind policies that's straight out of the key initiative

[4:53:26] Voice 1: and if we cycle back um that asking me to come back with that work i've already i'll include in

[4:53:34] Voice 1: that work the crown lease referral process and that'll be i'll make that at my top priority

[4:53:38] Voice 1: already when doing so i don't need further direction but by giving me that that sort of

[4:53:41] Voice 1: freedom to come back and report back with the with all those policies there's a whole lot of them

[4:53:45] Voice 1: um yeah that was my solution so

[4:53:49] Voice 7: you will cherry pick that one out of it and bring it back to us

[4:53:53] Voice 7: first and

[4:53:53] Voice 1: if i don't you can smack me and and say do the right thing and i'd be happy to do so okay

[4:53:58] Voice 7: so um i'm just wondering should we should we add in that the crown that this is you know

[4:54:05] Voice 7: crown referrals that refer that that was our decision with respect to crown referrals

[4:54:10] Voice 7: or does it does it leave that hanging in the air you

[4:54:14] Voice 1: could say and prioritize

[4:54:17] Voice 1: brownies for referral

[4:54:18] Voice 7: yeah on

[4:54:19] Voice 1: these referral process yeah

[4:54:20] Voice 7: i think that would be good because

[4:54:22] Voice 7: otherwise it's kind of like we we didn't come to any conclusion about it yeah okay so and

[4:54:29] Voice 7: and prioritize Crown Referral Procedure, yeah.

[4:54:42] Voice 7: Okay, anybody want to move this?

[4:54:49] Voice 7: Okay, Trustee Campbell, go ahead.

[4:54:53] Voice 3: The Regional Planning Committee requests staff

[4:54:56] Voice 3: to report back on Trust Council policies

[4:54:58] Voice 3: held by the Director of Planning Services

[4:55:00] Voice 3: to address Trust Council's key initiatives to review

[4:55:03] Voice 3: and where appropriate, amend, combine or rescind policies

[4:55:07] Voice 3: and prioritize the Crown Referrals Procedure.

[4:55:12] Voice 7: Does that make grammatical sense, Sam? I'm relying on you.

[4:55:20] Trustee Elliott: I think it should be a comma after recent policies,

[4:55:23] Voice 7: comma and

[4:55:25] Trustee Elliott: to prioritize.

[4:55:26] Trustee Elliott: Yeah. Yeah.

[4:55:28] Voice 7: Perfect. OK. So, OK, as amended. And who would like to second this?

[4:55:36] Voice 7: OK. Trustee Borthwick has seconded it. I call the vote.

[4:55:41] Voice 7: raise your hands if you're in favor lower your hand anybody opposed raise your hands

[4:55:52] Voice 7: okay that passes thank you everybody are we in danger of reaching the end of the meeting

[4:56:04] Voice 7: have i missed anything stefan or other people with eagle eyes congratulations

[4:56:12] Voice 1: we haven't missed

[4:56:13] Voice 7: out a giant section in the middle by jumping forwards and backwards anyway if we have it's

[4:56:19] Voice 7: for the next meeting thank you all and uh i appreciate your collaboration and uh acceptance

[4:56:29] Voice 7: of my slightly informal way of winding my way through the agenda and i appreciate being corrected

[4:56:36] Voice 7: and led through it as well so thank you all okay thanks all okay thank you

[4:56:44] Voice 7: bye bye