Islands Trust Council regular meeting, February 6, 2026

[0:00:02] Voice 12: it's still loading okay

[0:00:04] Voice 10: so uh it's

[0:00:07] Voice 12: it's chair chair it's still loading okay yeah

[0:00:10] Voice 12: and we are

[0:00:11] Voice 12: live okay

[0:00:13] Voice 10: thank you so here we are uh two minutes late but that's fine um so this is the regional

[0:00:22] Voice 10: planning committee on the February the 6th and I call this meeting to order. So I would like to

[0:00:34] Voice 10: acknowledge that we are all fortunate to live on islands in the Salish Sea and those islands were

[0:00:41] Voice 10: the home of many First Nations. Thank you. So now we'll go on to review of the agenda.

[0:00:49] Voice 10: agenda does anybody have any late items new items or would they like to reorder the agenda

[0:00:56] Voice 10: so i will take that silence to indicate no and so therefore i'll say that the agenda is approved

[0:01:09] Voice 10: right uh public comment period with uh the two any of the two members or there are three attendees

[0:01:19] Voice 10: now would any of them like to speak and you could unmute yourselves no no

[0:01:29] Voice 10: hands up i'm assuming we

[0:01:33] Voice 10: would see uh hands if they put their hands up and wanted to join us nope okay so um we'll carry on

[0:01:44] Voice 10: then with the delegations. So Maxine Lechter is going to make a delegation and submit a letter.

[0:01:56] Voice 10: So could you invite Maxine to join us, please? Okay, Maxine, are you ready to speak?

[0:02:14] Voice 10: Yes,

[0:02:15] Voice 13: I am. Thank you very much. I'm representing Friends of the Gulf Islands

[0:02:23] Voice 13: Society. And we are commenting on this review of the policies around bylaw enforcement.

[0:02:32] Voice 13: And I want to start by saying this new bylaw enforcement policy makes huge improvement over

[0:02:40] Voice 13: what we've had before. There are a lot of very, very positive good things in here. But we do have

[0:02:45] Voice 13: of a problem with a couple points. One had to do with 7.1.3, which we feel does not consider

[0:02:55] Voice 13: harm to the environment because it only addresses immediate harm, and harm can take place over time

[0:03:03] Voice 13: as well as from cumulative effects. But the main point I want to address is about trustees

[0:03:11] Voice 13: STs participating in a bylaw enforcement process, and there is one item that was added to the

[0:03:20] Voice 13: policies that we couldn't have seen originally, which is 6.1.6. So this is also a problem,

[0:03:30] Voice 13: them and also 7.1.1. So what I'd like to explain to you is picture yourself, you go to a community

[0:03:45] Voice 13: event and someone comes over to you and says, got this bylaw enforcement action, can you do

[0:03:50] Voice 13: something about it? And this could be a friend, a neighbor, or maybe someone you're in an island

[0:03:57] Voice 13: in club with. And of course, you're going to say, this is what will happen. What I'm explaining is

[0:04:04] Voice 13: what will happen if you maintain this policy as it stands now. So of course, you'll look into it.

[0:04:10] Voice 13: But eventually, you have to make a decision. Are you going to get involved or not? And if you say

[0:04:16] Voice 13: no, the person's mad at you. If you say yes, you're going to look into it. You have to take

[0:04:23] Voice 13: it to the local trust committee, which means it's public to the whole island that you're considering

[0:04:29] Voice 13: letting this person out of being under enforcement. And it really looks bad to the whole

[0:04:40] Voice 13: community. We're in a place where a lot of people don't trust government and think government is

[0:04:49] Voice 13: corrupt. And this just adds to that because it provides an opportunity to give special

[0:04:54] Voice 13: consideration to certain people. Plus, if you do this, everyone on the island is going to find out

[0:05:02] Voice 13: and people who are unhappy about bio-enforcement are all going to be coming to the local trust

[0:05:06] Voice 13: committee to get them out of their bio-enforcement case. So this is why the ombudsman said that

[0:05:14] Voice 13: That local trust committee should not be involved in local and bylaw enforcement issues.

[0:05:20] Voice 13: And it's so important that we do all we can to maintain respect for our local government.

[0:05:29] Voice 13: And this just really cuts away at that.

[0:05:32] Voice 13: So I urge you to change this policy so the local trust committee is not involved either

[0:05:39] Voice 13: either in bringing cases forward or taking cases away that are under

[0:05:45] Voice 13: bylaw enforcement.

[0:05:46] Voice 13: And I know it's been a policy for a long time,

[0:05:50] Voice 13: but local trust committees decide whether they're going to go for legal

[0:05:53] Voice 13: action and bylaw enforcement cases.

[0:05:55] Voice 13: And it is done in camera,

[0:05:57] Voice 13: but really this also should not be done by the local trust committee,

[0:06:02] Voice 13: but that's, that's not, that's been that way for a long time.

[0:06:06] Voice 13: but this other policies in here of the local trust committee bringing cases forward or

[0:06:13] Voice 13: discontinuing cases that's not in the policy in the past so we urge you strongly to take all these

[0:06:21] Voice 13: items out of the policy and they're in my they're in my letter in addition to the ones i just

[0:06:26] Voice 13: mentioned to you. Do you have any questions?

[0:06:33] Voice 10: Thank you, Maxine. So over to the trustees,

[0:06:39] Voice 10: would anybody like to respond to Maxine? Hands in the air? No, I would like to respond. Oh,

[0:06:49] Voice 10: go ahead, Trustee Patrick, or Chair Patrick. Yeah, well,

[0:06:56] Trustee Patrick: I think the Islands Trust, as we know,

[0:07:01] Trustee Patrick: is not a model that's designed to be a municipality.

[0:07:08] Trustee Patrick: It is different.

[0:07:09] Trustee Patrick: We are rural islands,

[0:07:11] Trustee Patrick: and we don't have resident bylaw enforcement officers

[0:07:16] Trustee Patrick: on our islands.

[0:07:21] Trustee Patrick: And the opportunity for local trust committees

[0:07:27] Trustee Patrick: to be, what's the word?

[0:07:35] Trustee Patrick: I mean, having some say in the local aspects of what's happening on the islands is important.

[0:07:44] Trustee Patrick: These rules have been in place for a very long time.

[0:07:46] Trustee Patrick: I'm looking forward to hearing from staff talk about this when we, I guess, later in the agenda, unless they're going to do it sooner.

[0:07:53] Trustee Patrick: sooner, but local trust committees aren't, are exercising just governance level decision

[0:08:04] Trustee Patrick: about whether enforcement actions continue to serve the public interest.

[0:08:08] Trustee Patrick: And I think that's important when our form of government in our, on our small islands

[0:08:15] Trustee Patrick: and you know, the, the corruption concept that's been, you know, conduct of interest

[0:08:23] Trustee Patrick: or conflict of interest through our standards of conduct is in place and will be in place.

[0:08:30] Trustee Patrick: And there's a reason for it. I'll stop there.

[0:08:37] Voice 10: Thank you, Chair Patrick. I'd just like to add to that. I've raised my own hand.

[0:08:42] Voice 10: I think it's important to remember that the very structure of the local trust committees with the external chair from another island

[0:08:51] Voice 10: is in place to really make sure that conduct is good of the highest.

[0:09:03] Voice 10: And that structure is a bit onerous on occasion

[0:09:07] Voice 10: because it incurs costs and logistics and admin,

[0:09:11] Voice 10: but it serves us well in these instances.

[0:09:13] Voice 10: And the idea that I could take an action with respect to either initiating or closing down a bylaw complaint, you know, on my own cognizance with my own opinion is just completely and utterly not.

[0:09:36] Voice 10: um not it's not going to happen i'm not using the right words but it really is

[0:09:41] Voice 10: not never going to happen there are too many safeguards in place however the big ticket item

[0:09:48] Voice 10: as far as i'm concerned is that the ombudsman um recommends that if you want first of all the idea

[0:09:55] Voice 10: of exercising discretion was strongly recommended and to exercise discretion fairly the ombudsman

[0:10:05] Voice 10: says each case is different and the goal is not to treat everyone the same. Fairness requires that

[0:10:13] Voice 10: exceptions to standard processes be made where warranted. And the only people who really can

[0:10:19] Voice 10: judge when those exceptions might be appropriate for a variety of reasons are the local trust

[0:10:28] Voice 10: trust committee people who live on the island.

[0:10:31] Voice 10: So I really don't agree with this proposal.

[0:10:37] Voice 10: And I remember at the time there was quite a discussion about it.

[0:10:42] Voice 10: And it was a conscious decision by all the trustees that that

[0:10:47] Voice 10: discretionary authority would reside with the local trust committee.

[0:10:52] Voice 10: and uh to take your point about um you know keeping things confidential anything you know

[0:11:01] Voice 10: when we're alerted that there's a bylaw uh complaint and a file being opened we we don't

[0:11:07] Voice 10: necessarily no we don't have any details and so usually we it's it's at a later stage or somebody

[0:11:15] Voice 10: somebody raises it with us and it is discussed in camera.

[0:11:18] Voice 10: So it is confidential.

[0:11:20] Voice 10: We don't, you know, speak abroad about any of these things.

[0:11:25] Voice 10: And so thank you for your input.

[0:11:28] Voice 10: Personally, I don't accept that it's a

[0:11:32] Voice 10: necessary adjustment or added to the

[0:11:35] Voice 10: the document.

[0:11:38] Voice 10: And but it could go to trust counsel and we'll see what happens then.

[0:11:44] Voice 10: And thank you. So thank you, Maxine, for joining us and for your input.

[0:11:51] Voice 10: I appreciate it.

[0:12:08] Voice 3: Sorry, I didn't

[0:12:10] Voice 10: realize that mute myself.

[0:12:11] Voice 10: And so we'll just receive the correspondence on the same issue.

[0:12:18] Voice 10: And go ahead, Trustee Brothwick.

[0:12:21] Voice 6: Yeah, I just wanted to make sure we didn't skate over Maxine's third point in terms of timeliness.

[0:12:29] Voice 6: in and with environmental concern and i just wanted to say and i i know we've we've we've

[0:12:36] Voice 6: moved maxine off i hope she's still here and can hear me um uh just that uh i yeah i totally

[0:12:45] Voice 6: appreciate the the concern about the um the timeliness uh in that regard and obviously

[0:12:51] Voice 6: you know being able to have someone who can assess those things it would be ideal in those moments um

[0:13:00] Voice 6: the obviously the then we have the same logistical problems where we would have

[0:13:05] Voice 6: one even if we had a staff biologist um you know we would have to be having that person

[0:13:11] Voice 6: traverse the elements

[0:13:12] Voice 6: fairly extensively i think to assess those things on terms of a long-term

[0:13:16] Voice 6: basis um and i i'll say just from from my experience and this uh that that actually i

[0:13:25] Voice 6: think that uh manager dingman and his his staff have done a very good job and are very sensitive

[0:13:30] Voice 6: to the environmental element of their work.

[0:13:34] Voice 6: So, but I totally grant that that's the thing.

[0:13:37] Voice 6: I do think that the language there

[0:13:39] Voice 6: is sufficient to capture that sort of ongoing element.

[0:13:43] Voice 6: I don't think it precludes that,

[0:13:45] Voice 6: but I totally take your point

[0:13:47] Voice 6: and I appreciate where you're coming from

[0:13:49] Voice 6: in terms of raising that.

[0:13:50] Voice 6: And I wanted to make sure

[0:13:51] Voice 6: that we didn't just elide that point.

[0:13:55] Voice 10: Thank you, Trustee Brodvig.

[0:13:56] Voice 10: In fact, I had made a note myself.

[0:13:58] Voice 10: I mean, the bylaws of each island are constructed to take care of the environment in many ways.

[0:14:08] Voice 10: And, you know, it's land use planning with an environmental spin.

[0:14:12] Voice 10: And so really, you know, when the bylaw officer is brought, comes to an island to inspect or raise, if a complaint is raised,

[0:14:26] Voice 10: it's very often you know and an error can be an environmental concern so they're already

[0:14:33] Voice 10: um you know they've got their checklist of things in their head in their minds so

[0:14:37] Voice 10: environmental concerns are always at the and

[0:14:41] Voice 6: and not to say that it's perfect either um you know

[0:14:44] Voice 6: we definitely want to do better with that and we want to empower our staff and our processes to to

[0:14:49] Voice 6: bear that in mind closely it's i think of vital importance to all all of us in the island's trust

[0:14:58] Voice 6: area that that's the case but i appreciate you bringing the point

[0:15:00] Voice 10: sure okay thank you very much

[0:15:03] Voice 10: um so uh with that let's move on then to um the correspondence we've already dealt with it was

[0:15:12] Voice 10: on the same matter so now we move on to um the minutes of the previous meetings and um let's go

[0:15:21] Voice 10: one by one so the first one was we we seem to have a lot of minutes due to the uh strike and the

[0:15:29] Voice 10: postponement of meetings etc so we have meeting minutes from july the 18th and does anybody have

[0:15:36] Voice 10: any comments on those minutes? Nope.

[0:15:53] Voice 10: Okay, let's move on to the next one. Minutes from...

[0:15:57] Voice 10: So let's say that those are approved by consensus. And now we move on to September the 8th.

[0:16:05] Voice 10: There was a special meeting. Anybody have any comments on that? It was interesting going back

[0:16:15] Voice 10: over the minutes. They're pretty comprehensive and I appreciate that. They do remind you

[0:16:19] Voice 10: that we have had some really good discussions and good points made and uh you know it's useful to

[0:16:29] Voice 10: go back and read them actually and so january the 13th we'll assume that september the 8th

[0:16:35] Voice 10: and by consensus those are approved we're now on january the 13th special meeting i had one

[0:16:43] Voice 10: one small edit there, which was on page three, it says the need to hire a third person to review

[0:16:55] Voice 10: the LTC projects. I'm just wondering, I think that should be third party. Would that be correct?

[0:17:03] Voice 10: Stefan, you might remember, it's sort of under freshwater sustainability, two thirds of the way

[0:17:10] Voice 10: down the page.

[0:17:13] Voice 2: Certainly, Chair, sounds correct the way you put it. I'm just trying to find it

[0:17:18] Voice 2: in my scrolling.

[0:17:19] Voice 10: It's on page 23 of the agenda, the current agenda, page three of five of those

[0:17:25] Voice 10: minutes. Okay. And it's about

[0:17:29] Voice 10: a third of the way back, a point, the need to hire a third person

[0:17:33] Voice 10: to review the LDC projects arose. The

[0:17:36] Voice 2: need to hire a third person, yes, a third. I thought

[0:17:41] Voice 10: possibly a third party person oh

[0:17:45] Voice 2: no i think here the in addition following points were discussed

[0:17:47] Voice 2: formulation implementation the need to hire a third person to review the ltc projects or was

[0:17:52] Voice 2: due to past unsuccessful business cases hmm yeah third person did

[0:18:00] Voice 10: you hire a third person

[0:18:03] Voice 2: no uh but we're oh i don't want to go down that rabbit hole let's see in addition to the following

[0:18:08] Voice 2: points were discussed regarding the formulation of the implementation plan the need to hire third

[0:18:13] Voice 2: person to review the ltc projects interesting uh to be honest i i'm not sure that the reference

[0:18:24] Voice 2: to third person ltc project seems just disconnected with the um should

[0:18:29] Voice 10: we just remove that sentence

[0:18:32] Voice 10: since it's a little confusing and none of us are sure of the meaning i yeah any suggestions go ahead

[0:18:51] Voice 10: yeah

[0:18:52] Voice 6: just well i mean there was definitely discussion of of the need for a third party

[0:18:58] Voice 6: review um but i don't think i think that that was something that was i think spoken about

[0:19:07] Voice 6: um but i but i would agree that that uh this seems a bit oddly specific but i don't know exactly but

[0:19:19] Voice 6: i think there was some discussion just that it's not yeah i

[0:19:23] Voice 6: do remember us talking about that i

[0:19:24] Voice 6: I just don't remember exactly how that why or how it's been phrased that particular way.

[0:19:28] Voice 6: But yeah,

[0:19:29] Voice 10: I just tripped over it. And then I thought about and I thought, this doesn't make sense.

[0:19:33] Voice 10: I remember the discussion in general, which was about the need to review.

[0:19:38] Voice 10: But is it, Stefan, can I just suggest that we remove that sentence entirely and then we approve the minutes as amended by consensus?

[0:19:52] Voice 2: Sure. Watching me butcher it live on screen.

[0:19:56] Voice 2: Excellent.

[0:19:59] Voice 2: I'm just going to proceed to strike it out.

[0:20:05] Voice 2: Oh, I see what's happening. My apologies for butchering that, but I know our minute taker will make sure we're there.

[0:20:17] Voice 2: Just so we're

[0:20:18] Voice 10: clear on what we're doing.

[0:20:19] Voice 2: Yeah.

[0:20:20] Voice 10: So anybody want to comment on that? Otherwise, we'll go ahead. The minutes are approved as amended with that sentence removed. Great.

[0:20:31] Voice 10: Right. OK, so onwards and upwards.

[0:20:36] Voice 10: So then we have the raft of resolutions about the various extra meetings and the dates that we adopted.

[0:20:45] Voice 10: And I think that's all pretty straightforward. Is anybody anybody want to comment on that?

[0:20:51] Voice 10: nope so we're going to gallop on to the um follow-up action list and let's find my space

[0:21:02] Voice 10: my page here

[0:21:03] Voice 3: um

[0:21:04] Voice 10: anybody want to comment on that so and one of the things i wanted to do was um

[0:21:12] Voice 10: And so we have a target date for the Freshwater Sustainability Strategy Frequently Asked Questions and the Freshwater Sustainability Strategy Implementation Plan.

[0:21:26] Voice 10: And both the target dates are July 1st, 2026.

[0:21:30] Voice 10: And were those the original dates or have those been changed since the last iteration?

[0:21:37] Voice 10: I meant to go back and find the follow up action plan.

[0:21:41] Voice 10: um but i just was curious and also that date um i mean we won't have another meeting or we will

[0:21:50] Voice 10: have yes we do have another meeting soon so comment on those dates please stefan sure thank

[0:21:57] Voice 2: you chair um so i'm looking at make sure i've got the whole thing showing yeah okay so the first one

[0:22:04] Voice 2: about uh frequently asked questions that was waiting for a few deliverables recognize that

[0:22:09] Voice 2: that's quite out of date, but that's all coming together with the Atlas and the strategy and what

[0:22:16] Voice 2: have you. So I think that date has been a sliding target based on conversations. So it's been

[0:22:21] Voice 2: updated per these reports coming to the RPC. And then the second one, Freshwater Sustainability

[0:22:28] Voice 2: Strategy Implementation Plan, that you're right, that that target doesn't match

[0:22:35] Voice 2: some of the follow-throughs that have happened at Trust Council and what have you. So

[0:22:39] Voice 2: recognize that's out of date um if there's a date you would like us to change it to happy to do so

[0:22:43] Voice 2: i think the implementation plan though as you're fully aware is has been cut from trust council's

[0:22:49] Voice 2: budget and it is a subject of discussion later on today so to answer your question directly yes

[0:22:55] Voice 2: these have been changing based on rpc's work program has been moving forward so um but making

[0:23:03] Voice 2: you aware of it is by presenting it here so um if you'd like to change the date great um but this

[0:23:09] Voice 2: date is no longer valid in in light of trust council's resolution and you may change your

[0:23:16] Voice 2: direction based on actually the discussion later on today in the agenda

[0:23:19] Voice 10: sure thank you for that

[0:23:21] Voice 10: and what i do think is uh would be helpful is if when a date changes the previous date is still

[0:23:31] Voice 10: still retained because otherwise you know um we end up in a situation we're thinking gee you know

[0:23:38] Voice 10: i was sure that this you know we had done this or we had agreed a different date so it would really

[0:23:44] Voice 10: be helpful if the you know when a new date is added i don't know whether you could put the

[0:23:50] Voice 10: other date in brackets and just say you know previously whatever so that there's some kind

[0:23:58] Voice 10: a record of slippage, that would be helpful.

[0:24:01] Voice 2: I could do that, absolutely.

[0:24:03] Voice 10: Yeah, thanks.

[0:24:04] Voice 10: Other than that, I don't have another comment. Anybody else want to

[0:24:10] Voice 10: comment on anything? Okay, we'll be done by lunchtime, maybe. Right, so now we are on,

[0:24:28] Voice 10: and by the way it's really helpful to go through those and see the ones that are

[0:24:33] Voice 10: help are the other thing actually stephan is at the next meeting if there are things you want

[0:24:38] Voice 10: removed from this list um as no longer relevant that would maybe you can ring them up at the next

[0:24:45] Voice 10: meeting just have a little cleanup especially going into the new um term that would be nice

[0:24:51] Voice 10: to leave it can do a little bit of housekeeping beforehand absolutely

[0:24:55] Voice 2: chair just for your

[0:24:57] Voice 2: information if i may um yeah the ones that you see that are 100 completed will be removed from

[0:25:02] Voice 2: the target list so that'll clean that up

[0:25:04] Voice 2: substantively and one thing to bring your

[0:25:06] Voice 2: attention to uh is uh the policies that you um you passed a resolution requesting myself

[0:25:12] Voice 2: the director to come back with policies for amendments and i and staff did ask you to make

[0:25:19] Voice 2: that resolution and i was glad you did i was looking forward to the work but internally um

[0:25:24] Voice 2: director marler has been um systematically bringing these to the governance committee

[0:25:29] Voice 2: so when him and i talked he was uh he felt like i'd be tripping on his toes so to speak so um

[0:25:35] Voice 2: i put him in the driver's seat there and and i'm taking a back seat um so i won't be advancing this

[0:25:42] Voice 2: unless uh director monitor is ready to work with me

[0:25:45] Voice 2: towards that goal so just give the update it's

[0:25:47] Voice 2: kind of on the back burner from my work but uh it's certainly still on your follow-up action list

[0:25:52] Voice 10: Okay, that's fine. Thanks, Stefan. Good. Okay, so next then on the agenda is,

[0:26:05] Voice 10: so the next one is indeed integrating biological information into land use decisions.

[0:26:11] Voice 10: So, oh, Trustee Borthwick, go ahead.

[0:26:14] Voice 6: I just wanted to direct your attention,

[0:26:16] Voice 6: Chair, that we have been joined by Trustee Elliott. Excellent, great. Hi, everyone.

[0:26:23] Voice 11: Sorry for being late, and I'm just getting here now.

[0:26:28] Voice 11: Thanks.

[0:26:29] Voice 10: Sure.

[0:26:29] Voice 10: Well, you missed a lot of kind of admin-y things more than I think we're coming to the

[0:26:34] Voice 10: meat of the meeting, and we do.

[0:26:35] Voice 10: Hooray.

[0:26:36] Voice 10: Yeah.

[0:26:36] Voice 10: So, okay, great.

[0:26:39] Voice 10: Over to you, Stefan, and to the biology information update.

[0:26:44] Voice 10: Thank you.

[0:26:46] Voice 2: Thank you, Chair.

[0:26:47] Voice 2: I'm just going to provide a brief introduction.

[0:26:48] Voice 2: You've met Patricia Woodruff once before.

[0:26:51] Voice 2: she did a presentation about species at risk just it's a delight to have her come back

[0:26:56] Voice 2: her and Erica Wheeler I don't see her in my my video feed but I suspect she'll be showing up

[0:27:01] Voice 2: shortly also a biologist but working for the Islands Trust Conservancy both are professional

[0:27:07] Voice 2: biologists hired using the ICCC fund the federal funding and they've been working together to

[0:27:14] Voice 2: bridge the Islands Trust Conservancy and planning services in a way that we have not enjoyed since

[0:27:20] Voice 2: my time with the trust 15-16 years and I'm hoping that you'll see some of the evidence of the work

[0:27:26] Voice 2: here certainly some of the Patricia has provided a summary of her work and as I said in my briefing

[0:27:34] Voice 2: it is a very humble simple briefing she didn't really go into the depth of all the things she's

[0:27:40] Voice 2: doing it's quite a lot and of course it doesn't go on to explain you know the impacts of the

[0:27:45] Voice 2: the organization so well. I was conscious when writing it that there was a request to put some

[0:27:52] Voice 2: discussion about what's the impact of losing this position. I didn't think now is the appropriate

[0:27:58] Voice 2: time to talk about what Patricia wrote in front of us. There's no end of awkward there, but if you'd

[0:28:03] Voice 2: like to return to that subject at the end of the presentation, I'd be happy to do so. I'll leave

[0:28:08] Voice 2: that up to you, Chair. Basically, I'm going to turn it over to Patricia to present some of her

[0:28:14] Voice 2: findings regarding the work that she's done in order to achieve Trust Council's top priority,

[0:28:20] Voice 2: which is to ensure the protection of ecosystem health in all land use planning decisions. I'm

[0:28:24] Voice 2: going to stop sharing the screen, assuming, Patricia, you would like to do a presentation.

[0:28:28] Voice 2: Yes, please.

[0:28:29] Voice 2: Stop, I do.

[0:28:33] Voice 12: Share.

[0:28:41] Voice 4: Can everybody

[0:28:48] Voice 9: see my screen? Thumbs up. Perfect. Thank you. Okay. Good morning, everyone.

[0:28:55] Voice 2: Quick thing, Patricia. I don't know if you all see like

[0:28:57] Voice 9: a gray box over.

[0:28:58] Voice 9: hold on is

[0:29:00] Voice 9: that better there's

[0:29:04] Voice 2: usually a lag you're hovering right over this

[0:29:07] Voice 2: oh it's shrinking is

[0:29:11] Voice 9: that better that's all good okay so

[0:29:13] Voice 10: it's still there's still on my screen

[0:29:16] Voice 10: there's kind of a dark gray blue box over the bottom of it not a picture the sort of banner

[0:29:23] Voice 10: at the bottom okay

[0:29:25] Voice 9: but can you see the words it's just yeah it's it's all the it's all your

[0:29:30] Voice 9: smiling faces is taking up the space so is

[0:29:33] Voice 6: there a way

[0:29:34] Voice 9: to to um reduce that or am i stuck with the

[0:29:38] Voice 9: black box i

[0:29:40] Voice 6: don't think it'll be in the way of your presentation patricia i think okay i think

[0:29:44] Voice 6: you've managed to

[0:29:45] Voice 6: get it as far out of the way as it will be how

[0:29:47] Voice 9: about there okay i

[0:29:49] Voice 6: can't see you

[0:29:50] Voice 9: now but all right i

[0:29:52] Voice 6: will just i

[0:29:53] Voice 9: will just keep talking and then just yell at me if you need me

[0:29:57] Voice 9: to change anything all right so good morning

[0:30:00] Voice 9: everyone. My name is Patricia and I'm in the temporary biologist position with Islands Trust

[0:30:04] Voice 9: Planning Services. I'm a registered professional biologist with a background in species at risk,

[0:30:10] Voice 9: invasive species, ecosystem models, and the riparian areas protection regulation.

[0:30:16] Voice 9: Oh, and now there's a lag. Hold on. There we go. My goal was to better integrate biological

[0:30:27] Voice 9: information into the land use planning process. My position started almost a year ago and goes

[0:30:34] Voice 9: until the end of March, and funding for this position was provided through the Environment

[0:30:39] Voice 9: and Climate Change Canada Priority Places. When I started this position, my work plan included

[0:30:46] Voice 9: some of the following activities to support the planning team. Review existing policies for each

[0:30:52] Voice 9: of the local trust areas. Research what information was available for species at risk in the area.

[0:30:57] Voice 9: area, assist in the identification of biological indicators for ecosystem health and integrity

[0:31:03] Voice 9: as per the strategic plan, and identify additional mapping layers to acquire, consult with stakeholders

[0:31:11] Voice 9: within the trust area, including the planning team from all three offices, ITC, federal,

[0:31:18] Voice 9: provincial, municipal biologists and planners, academics, other local conservancies, other

[0:31:22] Voice 9: other non-governmental organizations and First Nations, analyze the current state of different

[0:31:28] Voice 9: populations of species at risk and ecosystems in the trust area, and identify gaps in data

[0:31:33] Voice 9: integration or land use protections, and develop guidelines to integrate biological information

[0:31:39] Voice 9: into bylaws, development approvals, and environmental assessments. My first tasks were to provide

[0:31:47] Voice 9: assistance to the planning team from all three offices by giving an initial presentation on what

[0:31:52] Voice 9: I learned from my research on sensitive ecosystems and species at risk within the trust area

[0:31:56] Voice 9: at the Planning Services Professional Development Day. I worked with GIS and ITC staff to help

[0:32:02] Voice 9: clarify what sensitive ecosystem layers should be used on TAPIS 3.1, our internal mapping

[0:32:08] Voice 9: system. I was responsible for updating the biological information and including critical

[0:32:14] Voice 9: habitat information on the land information screening tool, previously the suitable land

[0:32:18] Voice 9: analysis, working with our GIS coordinator, senior freshwater specialist, and regional planning

[0:32:23] Voice 9: manager. And throughout the year, I was contacted by members of the planning team to provide timely

[0:32:30] Voice 9: reviews and other support on environmental assessment reports, rezoning applications,

[0:32:35] Voice 9: updating OCPs, and new development permit areas. So the identification of indicators for ecosystem

[0:32:43] Voice 9: health and integrity was listed as a key initiative of the Islands Trust Strategic Plan.

[0:32:48] Voice 9: I reviewed academic, technical, and local government reports to obtain potential options for indicators in the trust area, while also meeting with other governments and conservancies to learn about existing work on indicators.

[0:33:01] Voice 9: I also identified groups working on updating mapping information in the trust area.

[0:33:07] Voice 9: As part of the consultation, I contacted different local conservancies and other non-governmental organizations to discuss their current projects, goals, and objectives, and any concerns they had.

[0:33:17] Voice 9: I also spoke with federal and provincial governments on ongoing projects in the trust area, or that supported current work such as updated mapping and indicator information.

[0:33:28] Voice 9: I corresponded with different academics that conducted research in the trust area to learn about ways to determine the carrying capacity of the islands and identify potential indicators and culturally significant species.

[0:33:39] Voice 9: And I've been working with our Senior Indigenous Relations Advisor and ICC to begin engagement with First Nations on the identification and protection of culturally significant species.

[0:33:50] Voice 9: So looking at the status of species at risk in the Trust Area, I use provincial trend data to assess the populations and ecosystems on each island.

[0:33:58] Voice 9: There are currently in the Trust Area 16 species at risk with populations that have shown significant declines or at risk of disappearing from different islands.

[0:34:07] Voice 9: This is in contrast to 11 species which appear to be more persistent or stable.

[0:34:12] Voice 9: There are many other species where there is no recent data or survey information, which means the current status or population trend is unknown.

[0:34:21] Voice 9: So as I was working through my reviews and other tasks, I noticed some potential gaps in integrating biological information.

[0:34:28] Voice 9: For example, under the Professional Governance Act, defining areas for protection and determining actions in the context of species at risk and ecosystem protection is,

[0:34:37] Voice 9: such as in OCPs and DPAs, is the reserved practice of a registered professional biologist.

[0:34:43] Voice 9: Most of the riparian area DPAs have not been updated to match the 2019 regulation change.

[0:34:48] Voice 9: For example, they still refer to RAR instead of RAPR, except for Thetis Island.

[0:34:53] Voice 9: The state of the island's report and mapping information need to be updated with more recent data.

[0:34:59] Voice 9: Federally identified critical habitat for listed species at risk is not consistently protected throughout the trust area.

[0:35:05] Voice 9: And the format of the professional reports is not consistent, which leads to extra time required for review and additional questions for the report authors.

[0:35:15] Voice 9: For the development of new policy guidelines, I reviewed existing bylaws, both within Islands Trust and throughout BC.

[0:35:22] Voice 9: Species at risk populations with multiple layers of protection, for example, a population that is within a federal, provincial, regional park,

[0:35:30] Voice 9: plus also has conservation covenants and development permit areas on it, appeared to be trending in the right direction.

[0:35:35] Voice 9: compared to populations with no or limited protections.

[0:35:39] Voice 9: There were at least four cases where development was identified

[0:35:41] Voice 9: as the cause of a population's decline or disappearance.

[0:35:45] Voice 9: To better integrate the biological information into these decisions,

[0:35:49] Voice 9: professional report requirements should be improved

[0:35:51] Voice 9: to include more information and to better aid decision-making.

[0:35:56] Voice 9: DPAs and other bylaws should be updated to include species at risk

[0:35:59] Voice 9: and better match existing sensitive ecosystems.

[0:36:02] Voice 9: And more information should be available to planners

[0:36:05] Voice 9: so that they can be empowered to ask questions and get better results.

[0:36:09] Voice 9: So far, the deliverables for the end of my term include a terms of reference for the

[0:36:14] Voice 9: professional environmental assessment reports so that all required information is provided

[0:36:18] Voice 9: in a clear and consistent fashion to make it easier for review, update existing DPAs

[0:36:24] Voice 9: such as for riparian areas, provide options for better species at risk protection including

[0:36:29] Voice 9: potential new DPAs, a state of the islands report with the status of different species

[0:36:34] Voice 9: use at risk populations and the existing protections on each island and also to have

[0:36:40] Voice 9: additional resources available for the planning team. So thank you very much for allowing me the

[0:36:46] Voice 9: opportunity to provide an update on my progress. I don't know if you want to take questions now

[0:36:51] Voice 9: or otherwise that we can switch to Dr. Erica Wheeler with the ITC. Thanks very much.

[0:36:58] Voice 10: Thank you. That was really informative. I think we should switch to Dr. Erica and then come back to questions at the end. Everybody agree with that?

[0:37:10] Voice 10: Yeah.

[0:37:12] Voice 10: Okay, go ahead.

[0:37:14] Voice 10: Good morning,

[0:37:15] Voice 1: everybody. Can you hear me?

[0:37:16] Voice 1: Yeah.

[0:37:17] Voice 1: Great. Thank you very much for agreeing to have me present some information here about the Violence Trust Conservancy Species at Risk Program.

[0:37:27] Voice 1: I'm really impressed by the work that Patricia has managed to do in a year.

[0:37:31] Voice 1: She came with the regulatory framework understanding to the position.

[0:37:36] Voice 1: And I think it's really been beneficial to have her here.

[0:37:41] Voice 1: She knew how to navigate all of those ins and outs.

[0:37:43] Voice 1: So well done, Patricia.

[0:37:48] Voice 1: And I've really enjoyed working with her too.

[0:37:51] Voice 1: Okay, I'm going to share my screen.

[0:38:06] Voice 1: What are you seeing now?

[0:38:08] Voice 1: Are you seeing one picture or two?

[0:38:13] Voice 1: Two. Okay. I didn't mean it to be that. Oh, well, that's all right. I'll just go on like this. Okay. Again, thank you for having me. My name is Erica Wheeler. And Stefan, thank you for promoting me to a registered professional biologist, but I'm not quite there.

[0:38:34] Voice 1: I have a PhD and lots of experience, but I'm still working on my professional designation, which, as Patricia suggested, is a pretty important new piece of legislation or biologists are now under this new legislation that means that a lot of the work that ITC has been doing and perhaps that Islands Trust has been doing does, in fact, require a professional on staff under that act.

[0:39:01] Voice 1: um so we're coming from an islands trust conservancy perspective for my

[0:39:08] Voice 1: my presentation and you all know who we are of course um but i wanted to just provide this slide

[0:39:15] Voice 1: to remind you that we support voluntary conservation action in the islands trust area

[0:39:21] Voice 1: we work with people and communities to create nature reserves and conservation covenants

[0:39:26] Voice 1: that protect special places so we're one of the um best tools that the islands trust has

[0:39:34] Voice 1: to meet its mandate of preserving mandate of preserve and protect of course we don't do that

[0:39:40] Voice 1: all by ourselves we do that with a host of partners many of which you'll know from the

[0:39:46] Voice 1: islands that you live on this is not an exhaustive list but we work with very closely with other

[0:39:53] Voice 1: They're island conservancies.

[0:39:55] Voice 1: They are our boots on the ground in a lot of senses.

[0:39:59] Voice 1: They have contracts with us to do invasive species removal and species at risk surveys.

[0:40:05] Voice 1: So we really do this with a web of help, a web of interconnection.

[0:40:15] Voice 1: Across the Islands Trust area, about 21% of land of terrestrial habitat is currently protected.

[0:40:23] Voice 1: That varies from 53% on Saturna to about 4% on Thetis.

[0:40:31] Voice 1: So a huge range of difference across the islands.

[0:40:37] Voice 1: This map just shows, and I'm sorry, it's probably not that easy to see.

[0:40:44] Voice 1: I'm sorry that you're seeing my text here.

[0:40:46] Voice 1: I can move it over. There we go.

[0:40:51] Voice 1: So the 21% seems pretty good, but I'll put that in the context of the global and national

[0:40:57] Voice 1: goals.

[0:40:58] Voice 1: So Canada is a signatory to the 2022 Kunming Montreal Biodiversity Convention, where we

[0:41:06] Voice 1: committed to protecting 30% by 2030 of terrestrial habitat.

[0:41:15] Voice 1: So we're doing well, but we've got some way to go.

[0:41:19] Voice 1: So I'll give you a quick just rundown because Patricia had so much to present that she probably wasn't able to give you some of the details about the Species at Risk Act of Canada.

[0:41:31] Voice 1: So it's mostly enforced on federal lands, but there are some tools that Environment and Climate Change Canada can use if there's situations where at any level of government, there is not good protections in place for species at risk or their critical habitat.

[0:41:50] Voice 1: There are different ways to define species at risk. In Canada, they can be extirpated, which means they no longer exist in the wild. In Canada, endangered, facing imminent threat, threatened, likely to become endangered, or of special concern.

[0:42:05] Voice 1: concern. This is where we like to be working. We like to be working with species of special

[0:42:12] Voice 1: concern where there is still viable populations, but we're not in an emergency. So the southern

[0:42:20] Voice 1: resident killer whales are currently in an emergency. And one of the goals of the ITC

[0:42:27] Voice 1: Species at Risk program is to implement conservation measures at ITC properties so that we don't get

[0:42:33] Voice 1: get into situations where there's lots of species that are threatened, endangered, or extirpated.

[0:42:40] Voice 1: There are also provincial definitions, and you may have heard these terms, red-listed species

[0:42:48] Voice 1: and blue-listed species, are essentially just another way of saying the same thing.

[0:42:52] Voice 1: So red-listed are extirpated, endangered, or threatened, and blue-listed are of special

[0:42:57] Voice 1: concern. We already know that we live in a very special place, very high in biodiversity,

[0:43:08] Voice 1: also very high in species at risk given the high levels of diversity and the real pressure on the

[0:43:14] Voice 1: landscape for species at risk habitat. So the Priority Places Species at Risk Program, I'm

[0:43:21] Voice 1: sorry this map isn't all that easy to see, designated 12 areas across Canada that were

[0:43:28] Voice 1: a high priority for spending money to protect species at risk. And we are area down here,

[0:43:37] Voice 1: area 11 which is in southwest bc so southwest bc is a priority place for canada and there has been

[0:43:46] Voice 1: money from the nature fund of canada over the last six years being spent to in across many

[0:43:52] Voice 1: organizations to try to protect species at risk so it's essentially the coastal douglas fir

[0:43:59] Voice 1: zone in in bc and this pink dot i believe is us the facilities of pink dots are the projects that

[0:44:08] Voice 1: have been funded. So in 2020 the Environment and Climate Change Canada reached out to Islands Trust

[0:44:16] Voice 1: Conservancy to provide funds to help us implement a species at risk program. So the purpose of that

[0:44:24] Voice 1: was to implement conservation measures to benefit species at risk and this was just focused on ITC

[0:44:31] Voice 1: protected areas. Initiated in 2020 it ends at the end of March this year. Again it was funded by

[0:44:39] Voice 1: Environment Canada Species at Risk Priority Places Program. Over this last six years, we've had

[0:44:46] Voice 1: over $1.3 million in cash contributions from Environment Canada. And ITC has provided over

[0:44:53] Voice 1: $2 million in in-kind contributions and cash contributions. So to meet the requirements of

[0:44:59] Voice 1: the grant, a lot of that funding came from work that Island Stress Conservancy is already doing.

[0:45:04] Voice 1: doing, so we were able to use that as in-kind. It also supported a full-time program coordinator

[0:45:09] Voice 1: position for four years. You'll all remember Wendy Tyrell, who was in the position for

[0:45:15] Voice 1: two years before me, and a full-time co-op student for either one or two terms for four years.

[0:45:23] Voice 1: So conservation does have economic impact on positions. The conservation measures that

[0:45:31] Voice 1: we have been implementing include surveys and monitoring for species at risk, also includes

[0:45:37] Voice 1: habitat enhancement, data collation and accessibility, education and outreach and

[0:45:43] Voice 1: habitat protection, also called securement. So new nature reserves and conservation covenants.

[0:45:53] Voice 1: I'll go through a couple of the species that are kind of highlights for our program. I won't go

[0:45:59] Voice 1: through everything we've done but just to give you an example. So this is the sharp-tailed snake

[0:46:04] Voice 1: which hopefully you've all at least heard about if not seen. It's considered a threatened species

[0:46:13] Voice 1: federally and we have been having biologists who are experts going through ITC properties and doing

[0:46:23] Voice 1: surveys and monitoring to try to find out where they are and then how persistent they are.

[0:46:30] Voice 1: And you can see this map here, how much of the habitat is actually in our area. And

[0:46:42] Voice 1: this is all of the habitat for Canada is right in here. So we have a very high

[0:46:48] Voice 1: responsibility, conservation responsibility for this species. A bird that we've been working on

[0:46:55] Voice 1: a lot, working with experts, is the Western Screech Owl, the Kanakati species, which occurs

[0:47:01] Voice 1: in here. This is its range in red. Again, this is the only place it occurs in Canada.

[0:47:10] Voice 1: And we've been doing a lot of work on various islands to try to detect its occurrence

[0:47:15] Voice 1: and then to provide for its recovery the coastal tailed frog is one of the species that doesn't

[0:47:23] Voice 1: occur in the dry douglas fir side of the island's trust area but over on gambier island and this is

[0:47:32] Voice 1: an interesting species because it's very hard to detect we're using e-dna methods where we go in

[0:47:38] Voice 1: and scoop water out of the creeks that it lives in and test it for dna and a plant just to round

[0:47:47] Voice 1: things out um this is in my mind one of the our biggest responsibilities as islands trust

[0:47:53] Voice 1: conservancy there are only three populations currently in british columbia one of those dots

[0:47:59] Voice 1: at least a couple of those dots is um has actually blinked out as a population one occurs on mount

[0:48:05] Voice 1: tuam and uh so we're working really hard going as far as augmenting populations um grown from seed

[0:48:12] Voice 1: with plants grown from seed. So we have a very high stewardship responsibility for the species.

[0:48:22] Voice 1: And I won't go into a whole lot about what we've been doing with habitat enhancement because I

[0:48:27] Voice 1: think you understand a lot of what that means. For restoration work, a big part of the grant

[0:48:35] Voice 1: has been spent for invasive species removal. That's been one of the, other than development,

[0:48:40] Voice 1: invasive species can cause, you know, some of the biggest habitat impacts for species at risk.

[0:48:47] Voice 1: We've been doing restoration that includes native plant installation and herbivore exclosures.

[0:48:53] Voice 1: And we've also added species structures to help with different life stages. So those have included

[0:49:00] Voice 1: nest boxes for birds, artificial cover objects for reptiles and amphibians, and fencing to reduce

[0:49:07] Voice 1: animal and human impact. One of the most exciting things for me is that we managed to bring legacy

[0:49:20] Voice 1: data that was in reports since the 70s into a geospatial database this past fall. We had a

[0:49:27] Voice 1: wonderful co-op student who managed to go through 1,200 reports and develop a geospatial database.

[0:49:34] Voice 1: So this little map here shows just the southern part of the Islands Trust area, and each of those

[0:49:40] Voice 1: blobs is an Islands Trust Conservancy protected area. To the right is a record for a common

[0:49:48] Voice 1: sharp-tailed snake at Cecil Cunningham Nature Reserve, this arrow, where the arrow points down

[0:49:54] Voice 1: here. And what we can now see in TAPIS, which is the database that we use, a geospatial database

[0:50:01] Voice 1: for the Islands Trust, we can see that there have been 33 observations of species at risk since the

[0:50:06] Voice 1: the 70s um on at Cecil Cunningham and that's going to really help us for our planning going forward

[0:50:13] Voice 1: uh the last thing I'll mention this has been a long time coming um it's it's been one of those

[0:50:21] Voice 1: administrative things that's just moved forward very slowly Environment Canada and Islands Trust

[0:50:26] Voice 1: Conservancy um have a draft agreement should be signed very very soon by the end of March

[0:50:32] Voice 1: So this is under the Species at Risk Act. It's a more formal relationship than we've had before with Environment Canada. It's essentially a collaborative framework going forward for conservation measures. And this still applies just to ITC protected areas.

[0:50:48] Voice 1: is. The value of this for us and for Canada is that we're demonstrating that we're taking

[0:50:53] Voice 1: voluntary measures to comply with SARA. It's one of the voluntary measures available to governments,

[0:51:00] Voice 1: individuals, organizations. And it may enable future funding. So the funding that we have now

[0:51:06] Voice 1: is a different funding stream. But having this MOU essentially with Environment Canada means that

[0:51:12] Voice 1: But we will be at the top of the list for funding when some becomes available.

[0:51:19] Voice 1: I'll stop there. Thank you very much for your time.

[0:51:22] Voice 10: Thank you. That was really, really interesting.

[0:51:24] Voice 10: I have lots of questions, but I'll open the floor to others first.

[0:51:30] Voice 10: So, trustees or anybody, would you like to ask some questions?

[0:51:36] Voice 10: Go ahead, Sam.

[0:51:38] Voice 6: Yes, and a big thank you to both of you, Patricia and Erica.

[0:51:43] Voice 6: It's really awesome to see all of this work.

[0:51:45] Voice 6: work. Yeah, I am a huge fan of all the work that the ITC does and I know anecdotally and

[0:51:56] Voice 6: obviously from your report, Patricia, how valuable your contributions have been. I don't

[0:52:04] Voice 6: have a ton of questions, but I mean, I have lots of all sorts of questions that I would

[0:52:08] Voice 6: ask not in this format but um uh first just more of a comment um it's a it's a subtle reading but

[0:52:18] Voice 6: i can see i can the the very amateur researcher in me can uh absolutely uh all right i sense i

[0:52:27] Voice 6: i detect uh the tremendous amount of frustration hidden in the terms of reference update uh that

[0:52:36] Voice 6: Patricia was talking about. And I can only imagine trying to collate all of these reports in various

[0:52:41] Voice 6: different formats. So I really salute that particular effort. I know that makes things

[0:52:46] Voice 6: really challenging to sort of reformat. You have all the data, but you have to reformat it to make

[0:52:52] Voice 6: it useful. And that takes a tremendous amount of work. So that's a really valuable thing.

[0:52:59] Voice 6: And the question I had was, so you had done a bunch of work, you've obviously done a bunch of

[0:53:05] Voice 6: work to um compare and contrast uh um places with good dpa guidelines and uh bylaws regarding

[0:53:15] Voice 6: ecological conservation and species at risk um are there specific uh municipalities or or areas

[0:53:25] Voice 6: i'm sure there's a variety of different sort of jurisdictions um that are a gold standard uh you

[0:53:33] Voice 6: you know, or who are doing work that we're, we're like desperate? Is there any one place that's

[0:53:37] Voice 6: sort of kind of hitting all the marks and doing it right? And sort of where are we, I guess,

[0:53:42] Voice 6: in relation to that? I know, that's a kind of a broad question. So whatever, whatever you have

[0:53:49] Voice 6: for me is fine.

[0:53:51] Voice 9: I know, Kelowna and Courtney have both been putting a lot of effort into it.

[0:53:57] Voice 9: But I know I was speaking with someone in the Highlands region who was working towards sort of a positive gain for any development.

[0:54:08] Voice 9: So, I mean,

[0:54:09] Voice 9: you hear of no net loss.

[0:54:10] Voice 9: Well, they wanted to take it one step further and say, OK, you know, we want to have even more habitat available after the development.

[0:54:17] Voice 9: So those are just off the top of my head.

[0:54:19] Voice 6: Yeah, great.

[0:54:20] Voice 6: Yeah, well, I'm on Denman Island, so I'm up near to Courtney.

[0:54:25] Voice 6: So I know a little bit of some of the stuff that's happening over there and

[0:54:28] Voice 6: it's definitely, it's definitely been impressive. And I just, yeah,

[0:54:31] Voice 6: it was trying to get a sense of like where things are. Well,

[0:54:34] Voice 6: I hope we can crib from their notes and take the work you've,

[0:54:38] Voice 6: you've done for us and transfer that into something, something more.

[0:54:42] Voice 6: But I'll cede my time to the others.

[0:54:45] Voice 6: Thank you, Trustee Worthwick.

[0:54:47] Voice 6: Go

[0:54:47] Voice 10: ahead, Chair Patrick.

[0:54:51] Trustee Patrick: No, I think, thank you both for your, your work that you do.

[0:54:55] Trustee Patrick: So I think the trustees sitting, all of them, we are a subcommittee of a group of 26.

[0:55:05] Trustee Patrick: And there is no question that the preservation and protection of our natural and terrestrial and marine environment is just central to the mandate and the work that we do.

[0:55:15] Trustee Patrick: And it's an honor to sit with so many who care so deeply.

[0:55:19] Trustee Patrick: deeply. And Trustee Borthwick, your question, are we lagging behind, I think is what the

[0:55:26] Trustee Patrick: words that you would say of some of some other places and, and that is, you know, it's always

[0:55:32] Trustee Patrick: sad because I think we all want to see the Islands Trust not lagging but leading. I think

[0:55:39] Trustee Patrick: that's the the emphasis, especially in this work that is so important to this place that

[0:55:46] Trustee Patrick: that we all know is so special.

[0:55:49] Trustee Patrick: Patricia, you did, I loved the list of things

[0:55:52] Trustee Patrick: that you had referenced,

[0:55:54] Trustee Patrick: although this was the first time, Director Cermak,

[0:55:57] Trustee Patrick: that I heard land information screening tool

[0:55:59] Trustee Patrick: instead of suitable land analysis.

[0:56:00] Trustee Patrick: So we have a new name, so good to know.

[0:56:07] Trustee Patrick: But the work that was, you've done a lot of work,

[0:56:10] Trustee Patrick: the terms of references for assessments

[0:56:13] Trustee Patrick: assessments and options for all of these things. We know our planning tools are out of date

[0:56:19] Trustee Patrick: in a variety of areas, but did you prioritize some of the opportunities to, you know, to fix,

[0:56:28] Trustee Patrick: I guess is the word, or to pay attention to? Was that part of the reports, was to sort of identify

[0:56:34] Trustee Patrick: or prioritize the work that could be done?

[0:56:37] Voice 9: Yes, I would say that. So I've got multiple

[0:56:41] Voice 9: sort of projects in flux as I try to finalize my term but yes that I've sort of been aiming

[0:56:48] Voice 9: primarily at like listed species at risk and critical habitat and then any additional

[0:56:54] Voice 9: protections that yeah I'm going to be providing a lot of options okay

[0:56:59] Trustee Patrick: now because that's that's

[0:57:00] Trustee Patrick: where I think for this committee and the support and the work that this committee could do is is

[0:57:04] Trustee Patrick: is when we is advancing the prioritized work

[0:57:08] Trustee Patrick: and the overall pile of things that needs to be done,

[0:57:13] Trustee Patrick: which is always overwhelming.

[0:57:17] Trustee Patrick: And in particular, when I know we have,

[0:57:21] Trustee Patrick: you know, development permits,

[0:57:23] Trustee Patrick: I know I was the chair of Thetis last term.

[0:57:25] Trustee Patrick: They were, the only reason why theirs is up to date

[0:57:27] Trustee Patrick: was because they were the last island

[0:57:29] Trustee Patrick: to bring in the riparian protection rules.

[0:57:32] Trustee Patrick: um but uh i know that there's work to be done and prioritizing that work and i'm looking forward to

[0:57:39] Trustee Patrick: uh this this uh committee being able to dig into that and get behind a prioritized list so thank

[0:57:46] Trustee Patrick: you

[0:57:47] Voice 10: thank you thank you so i did put myself on the list but my hand has disappeared but it was

[0:57:56] Voice 10: was there okay so i've i i loved both of your report outs and thank you for just how systematically

[0:58:05] Voice 10: you report out on the work you've done it's you know from uh you know on a committee like this

[0:58:12] Voice 10: it's very easy to lose track of exactly what's going on like practical hands-on things tick tick

[0:58:18] Voice 10: tick tick the list box and i really appreciate the way you've put that together i have three

[0:58:25] Voice 10: three items to just comment on, Ray's. One is indicators. I am very interested in those and,

[0:58:33] Voice 10: you know, I'm interested in the information that's going to go into the refresh, I suppose,

[0:58:38] Voice 10: of the State of the Islands report. So I'd love to see that whenever that material is ready that,

[0:58:46] Voice 10: you know, we get a chance to look at it. I mean, just off the top of your head,

[0:58:51] Voice 10: how many indicators do you think you have and are they common across all the islands or are

[0:58:56] Voice 10: there different indicators for different islands so

[0:59:02] Voice 9: what will need to be decided is i mean i so i

[0:59:09] Voice 9: have different indicators i've tried to keep them consistent throughout the islands but it will be

[0:59:13] Voice 9: what what what you're trying to measure with these indicators like for example you can use

[0:59:20] Voice 9: different species to look at you know how well certain types of sensitive ecosystems are doing

[0:59:28] Voice 9: but yeah I think that still needs to be sort of finalized but yeah I am trying to keep it

[0:59:36] Voice 9: as consistent as possible also linking it to the work that's already being done by different

[0:59:41] Voice 9: conservancies like for example there's conservancies that are doing quite a bit of

[0:59:44] Voice 9: bat monitoring and you can use bats indicators because they use so many different types of

[0:59:48] Voice 9: habitats, like they use the riparian habitat for migrating, and then they use other types

[0:59:53] Voice 9: for feedings, just to give a very brief idea. So does that sort of answer your question?

[1:00:00] Voice 10: It does. And what I've always felt strongly about is that we are inclined to use indicators to

[1:00:07] Voice 10: paint a picture of gloom and doom. And realistically, you know, the Alliance Trust

[1:00:11] Voice 10: has been around for a while, and we were all doing our best. And it would be really helpful

[1:00:17] Voice 10: if there were some indicators that said, you know what, we're not doing too badly in these areas,

[1:00:22] Voice 10: because otherwise, it's just like, oh, let's just all throw our hands up and go home,

[1:00:28] Voice 10: like some sort of positive message would be terrific i know i look at saturn i live on saturn

[1:00:35] Voice 10: i think 53 percent um completely protected that's great you know but it's not just about that it's

[1:00:44] Voice 10: just some positive indicators because sometimes it is all doom and doom and no matter how hard

[1:00:50] Voice 10: you try it's like sort of encouraging people rather than um you know gloom and doom and it's

[1:00:57] Voice 10: It's pointless going on.

[1:01:00] Voice 10: That would be great.

[1:01:01] Voice 10: And coming to those protected areas,

[1:01:04] Voice 10: I know you talk about looking at doing a review of areas

[1:01:11] Voice 10: and you talk about fencing.

[1:01:13] Voice 10: Well, you know, I have a bugbear,

[1:01:16] Voice 10: which is the idea of protected and unprotected,

[1:01:19] Voice 10: because I think unprotected is used to describe private property.

[1:01:24] Voice 10: but the islands trust is there to do land use planning to protect those areas that are held

[1:01:30] Voice 10: by privately private people who also do their best to protect those properties so i just have

[1:01:38] Voice 10: an issue with describing them as unprotected and i you know personally i think there are many many

[1:01:44] Voice 10: pieces of property that are not covenanted and they're all private but they are fenced and it

[1:01:51] Voice 10: would be really useful to do proper reviews of the species there our yard is fenced and we are

[1:02:01] Voice 10: awash in our buta seedlings and douglas fir seedlings etc etc every year which are not

[1:02:08] Voice 10: present outside because the deer eat them or something eats them so you know it would be

[1:02:14] Voice 10: really helpful to include I think private fenced private property areas in your reviews of species

[1:02:23] Voice 10: because I think they could be like a secret treasure trove of some of the species that are

[1:02:29] Voice 10: at risk elsewhere since fencing seems to be one of the things that is you know a good thing and

[1:02:37] Voice 10: the last thing I will leave you and it's not really a question it's I think to build on what

[1:02:44] Voice 10: what Trustee Borthwick said, the idea of standardised formatting and clear instructions to consultants

[1:02:51] Voice 10: when they're presenting reports is fantastic because I was very frustrated.

[1:02:58] Voice 10: I read some of the reports on, you know, what was it, land converted to and coverage and contiguous forest.

[1:03:08] Voice 10: and every single one of them has different areas has different percentages has different

[1:03:14] Voice 10: data that you try and pull it together and it's really really difficult so very explicit

[1:03:20] Voice 10: instructions with respect to formatting and units and you know what is the area of an island are

[1:03:28] Voice 10: you talking about the local trust area are you talking about the area of the island that i was

[1:03:33] Voice 10: so frustrated going through those data sets and I pull them into spreadsheets and try to fix them up,

[1:03:40] Voice 10: but really it's very unhelpful. So I think that's a terrific initiative. So I'll leave it at that

[1:03:47] Voice 10: and thank you very much both of you. I found it really interesting to hear about your work

[1:03:53] Voice 10: and I'm amazed with what you achieved in a short period. Thank you.

[1:03:57] Voice 9: Thank you Chair Rowland. Did

[1:03:59] Voice 9: Did Trustee Elliott have a question before we move on?

[1:04:01] Voice 10: Oh, yes.

[1:04:02] Voice 10: Go ahead, Trustee Elliott.

[1:04:04] Voice 9: Yes.

[1:04:05] Voice 14: Thank you.

[1:04:06] Voice 14: Can you hear me?

[1:04:07] Voice 14: Yes.

[1:04:08] Voice 14: Okay.

[1:04:08] Voice 14: So a question for both Patricia and Erica is the State of the Islands report, the information that's been collected so far, sort of what percentage would we now have, and maybe this is for Director Cermak as well,

[1:04:29] Voice 14: that would contribute to an updated state of the islands report like what other information do we

[1:04:35] Voice 14: need is species at risk and and the state of the ecosystem health sort of that part is complete

[1:04:42] Voice 14: and we need to

[1:04:43] Voice 14: know other factors so this is maybe director Cermak you know the build out and

[1:04:51] Voice 14: development existing development what else is needed for a complete state of the islands

[1:04:57] Voice 14: updated report thanks

[1:04:59] Voice 9: um i will jump in before stefan just because i was at a meeting yesterday

[1:05:04] Voice 9: there will be a upcoming a biodiversity atlas which will have updated um sensitive ecosystem

[1:05:12] Voice 9: information and a bit and um erica you can correct me if i'm wrong but i believe there

[1:05:18] Voice 9: will be some land coverage changes and that sort of information as

[1:05:21] Voice 1: well mapping yes disturbance

[1:05:23] Voice 9: Irvins Mapping. That's also using Priority Places funding, and that is, they're hoping to have a

[1:05:29] Voice 9: beta version out by the end of March. So some of that information, and it will be available for us

[1:05:35] Voice 9: to download and use. So some of that information will be available later this spring, and that can

[1:05:42] Voice 9: help answer some of the outstanding questions in the State of the Islands report.

[1:05:46] Voice 14: Oh, that's great.

[1:05:47] Voice 14: Great, thank you.

[1:05:47] Voice 10: Who's providing the Biodiversity Atlas?

[1:05:50] Voice 10: How is it being provided?

[1:05:53] Voice 9: It is, it's a project headed

[1:05:55] Voice 9: by the Coastal Douglas Fair Conservation Partnership

[1:05:58] Voice 9: and the UBC Botanical Garden.

[1:06:02] Voice 9: And they've also been working,

[1:06:03] Voice 9: they've been working with all sorts

[1:06:04] Voice 9: of different academics and groups.

[1:06:06] Voice 9: They've sort of been just heading the project.

[1:06:10] Voice 9: And so

[1:06:11] Voice 3: they're using,

[1:06:13] Voice 9: I know they're using satellite data, LIDAR data.

[1:06:15] Voice 9: they're realizing that everyone's mapping tends to get out of date and so they're hoping to update

[1:06:20] Voice 9: it all great

[1:06:22] Voice 10: thank you uh toby or is that okay or do you want to add to that

[1:06:29] Voice 14: well i i guess a

[1:06:30] Voice 14: follow-up sort of in the bigger context um a question for director sermac since we've um or

[1:06:38] Voice 14: since council has deferred um the development of the um the resiliency assessment project

[1:06:47] Voice 14: project, which was sort of intended to be, if I understood it correctly, a more active

[1:06:54] Voice 14: live update of sort of what used to be the State of the Islands report.

[1:07:00] Voice 14: Do you think we can use the information that

[1:07:04] Voice 4: is

[1:07:05] Voice 14: now available to produce a sort of point-in-time

[1:07:11] Voice 14: updated State of the Islands report for, say, next fiscal?

[1:07:16] Voice 14: goal? Is that maybe a good outcome of all the biological and area disturbance information

[1:07:24] Voice 14: that we are getting?

[1:07:28] Voice 2: Through the chair, I'll respond to that. So later, actually, your next

[1:07:33] Voice 2: item is going to do a quick review of what we're calling the land information screen tool.

[1:07:39] Voice 2: And that, you know, both professionals here, PhD professional, have contributed to that work,

[1:07:48] Voice 2: extensively, as has the other professionals standing by, William Schulba, and many others.

[1:07:55] Voice 2: And so I think it'll demonstrate where we are in terms of collating data that staff are able to use

[1:08:01] Voice 2: to provide information to the elected officials to make decisions. So I'll do a quick rundown of

[1:08:06] Voice 2: that. It's meant to be an ongoing exercise. I think we have a new GIS program that's finally

[1:08:15] Voice 2: in place internally. And we have finally updated a lot of the information that we had in-house

[1:08:22] Voice 2: into that. It was a lot of work. I won't get into it, but I see nodding by Erica, Dr. Wheeler,

[1:08:28] Voice 2: she knows, and so on and so forth. So new data is always welcoming new data. And as this group

[1:08:35] Voice 2: also knows, things like eelgrass mapping is coming in the future so that we can import that as well.

[1:08:40] Voice 2: So all that said, is it enough information? I don't think it depends on the elected official, what's being discussed. I think this is the hard part. I don't know that all the deliverables that were, or pardon me, all the data sets that were in the previous State of the Island report. So I can't quite comment to that. I wish I could compare this information to that. Can't do that. So I'd have to go away to answer that question.

[1:09:03] Voice 2: but I can tell you the decisions that you make as elected officials always depends on the data you

[1:09:09] Voice 2: have at the time you make the decision and then you guys have to make the decision is this enough

[1:09:16] Voice 2: and is that enough information so that's our hope is to be as up-to-date as possible as

[1:09:21] Voice 2: fulsome as possible and if you need more we'll pursue more so I can't quite answer that question

[1:09:26] Voice 2: because that's that I would have to compare the state of the islands to what we have now

[1:09:30] Voice 2: now. And then depending on the decision you're making, you have to ask yourself, is that enough

[1:09:34] Voice 2: information? I can tell you that current projects in the LTC land, the major projects are using the

[1:09:41] Voice 2: information that we have. And it's there, as I've heard from trustees so far, that the information

[1:09:47] Voice 2: is being, is helpful. But again, it's only a starting point for making decisions. It's only

[1:09:53] Voice 2: one layer. And I can be more clear when I review, I open up the land information screening tool.

[1:10:05] Voice 10: Okay. Thank you, Stephan. Anybody else want to jump in? No, we're good. Okay. Thank you

[1:10:17] Voice 10: both. They're excellent. And I look forward, I'd be glad to see your presentations incorporated

[1:10:24] Voice 10: into the minutes. Is that okay, Stephan? Can we do that?

[1:10:32] Voice 2: Perhaps, Madam Chair, or I can't say Madam, sorry, Chair, it might be more appropriate

[1:10:37] Voice 2: to include the presentations, if that's okay,

[1:10:39] Voice 2: in the agenda package rather than the minutes.

[1:10:43] Voice 2: I don't, do you know what I mean?

[1:10:44] Voice 2: The PowerPoint slides,

[1:10:46] Voice 2: we could put them into a PDF

[1:10:47] Voice 2: and do them as an appendix later.

[1:10:49] Voice 2: I think that'd be the more appropriate way.

[1:10:51] Voice 2: That's okay.

[1:10:52] Voice 2: I'm seeing nods from staff.

[1:10:54] Voice 2: Groovy.

[1:10:55] Voice 10: I'm happy for whatever you choose as a mechanism,

[1:10:58] Voice 10: but I think it would be really helpful

[1:10:59] Voice 10: to actually see those slides.

[1:11:03] Voice 2: Understood.

[1:11:04] Voice 10: Okay, great.

[1:11:05] Voice 10: Thanks so much.

[1:11:06] Voice 10: thank you

[1:11:07] Voice 1: very much for having us

[1:11:08] Voice 10: okay thank you great um okay so without further ado now we're on

[1:11:15] Voice 10: to item 7.2 freshwater strategy update over to you stephan thank

[1:11:24] Voice 2: you chair just same as last time

[1:11:25] Voice 2: brief brief introduction um william sholbaugh has responded to resolutions uh the rpc made

[1:11:33] Voice 2: at special business meetings, put together quite the compendium.

[1:11:36] Voice 2: He's worked really hard in this.

[1:11:39] Voice 2: And I think I've really enjoyed reading the report myself.

[1:11:41] Voice 2: It's very clear, very informative.

[1:11:44] Voice 2: And if you pay attention to the attachments,

[1:11:47] Voice 2: it gives a really interesting breakdown on the freshwater sustainability

[1:11:52] Voice 2: strategy program actions, timelines, LTC coverage, and so forth.

[1:11:58] Voice 2: So, yeah, I just want to thank William for all the effort he put in

[1:12:03] Voice 2: to create this report for you to be right up to speed,

[1:12:07] Voice 2: not only today, but throughout time.

[1:12:09] Voice 2: So I think this

[1:12:10] Voice 2: information will be really helpful,

[1:12:11] Voice 2: especially as we go forth,

[1:12:13] Voice 2: assuming the Trust Council supports the budget

[1:12:15] Voice 2: for review of the strategy.

[1:12:18] Voice 2: So this is great baseline data.

[1:12:20] Voice 2: And then the RPC may be able to use this

[1:12:22] Voice 2: to answer the question whether or not,

[1:12:25] Voice 2: what the impact of not having implementation plan

[1:12:27] Voice 2: as part of that business case.

[1:12:29] Voice 10: So Stefan, we don't actually have the report yet.

[1:12:32] Voice 10: you were going to send it it

[1:12:34] Voice 2: was oh i'm sorry it was updated in your web dev and it should be

[1:12:37] Voice 2: attached to i've got it in my okay i don't

[1:12:42] Voice 10: i downloaded it a few days ago i didn't know

[1:12:44] Voice 10: i didn't go back to web dev today oh

[1:12:47] Voice 2: my apologies we

[1:12:48] Voice 14: have it yeah it's in the updated agenda

[1:12:53] Voice 14: yeah

[1:12:54] Voice 6: we got it yesterday or day before perhaps day before yes yeah okay

[1:13:01] Voice 10: fair enough i'll

[1:13:04] Voice 2: turn it over

[1:13:07] Voice 5: Thank you, Stefan. I hope my internet's okay. My modem decided to implode on itself

[1:13:14] Voice 5: last night, so I'm calling to you on a hot spot, so hopefully that's fine.

[1:13:22] Voice 5: It's a hard act to follow, our amazing biologist. It's been such a pleasure to work with both Erica

[1:13:27] Voice 5: and Patricia over the past year, and Patricia in particular with going through the suitable

[1:13:34] Voice 5: land analysis we're calling list now and um yeah it's it's really amazing to see the amount of uh

[1:13:42] Voice 5: effort and opportunity that is afforded in the biological and conservation space which is um

[1:13:50] Voice 5: kind of the opposite um that's happening in in the island's trust area in the south coast with

[1:13:56] Voice 5: respect to um like strategic structural change and and momentum in water resources it's the opposite

[1:14:06] Voice 5: direction there's been a lot of cuts in the province a lot of programs have closed when

[1:14:13] Voice 5: positions in the province have been retired out or someone's moved on they just simply

[1:14:17] Voice 5: closed the position um we only have one groundwater protection officer for the

[1:14:22] Voice 5: entire islands trust area now and only one hydrogeologist after the switch from ministry

[1:14:28] Voice 5: of environment or sorry of ministry of forestry when they moved water from there to to walrus it

[1:14:34] Voice 5: seemed like that was good intention but it it did the opposite it really uh removed a lot of our

[1:14:40] Voice 5: support and um in that there's a lot of downloads down to local government and to regional districts

[1:14:47] Voice 5: in particular. And of course, the Islands Trust Area is a very unique governance model where we

[1:14:56] Voice 5: have many regional district partners that we need to coordinate with in order to not only fill the

[1:15:05] Voice 5: jurisdictional gaps that we identified 10 years ago with the formation of SWPA, but now even more

[1:15:13] Voice 5: more so with loss of programs and staffing at the provincial level, the responsibilities

[1:15:21] Voice 5: have been downloaded even more so to the local government to undertake a lot of this work.

[1:15:29] Voice 5: And so that being said, I don't have much of a presentation, I'm going to let the briefing

[1:15:35] Voice 5: speak to itself. I apologize for the delay in the briefing, so I hope that you had the

[1:15:42] Voice 5: the opportunity to read it and if you haven't then then please do and and feel free to to come

[1:15:47] Voice 5: back with me with questions or to stephan over at uc fit um and um yeah i was this this response

[1:15:58] Voice 5: in the briefing is adjacent to my progress that i've been working on for the past uh

[1:16:06] Voice 5: uh, uh, yearly quarter, even half year. Um, it was quite concerning at the last RPC meeting on

[1:16:16] Voice 5: kind of like the common lack of understanding of this program. And, and even like my role,

[1:16:24] Voice 5: there was some discussion, whether or not it's in my job description to, to manage something

[1:16:29] Voice 5: something like this. And so I'm hoping that I believe this is my best way forward to present

[1:16:42] Voice 5: you this data. There's different ways to absorb it in my briefing. I think the best way is through

[1:16:48] Voice 5: the narrative, through the text document, but also I provided some tables if you want to look

[1:16:55] Voice 5: at the timeline and and when there was effort put into fresh water based on term uh where you can

[1:17:03] Voice 5: see the a bulk of the work was done last term um and and then you could see the coverage of the

[1:17:10] Voice 5: local trust committees and i would i would suggest that we can follow the narrative here by going

[1:17:18] Voice 5: Going from data collection and increasing our scientific knowledge of groundwater and

[1:17:28] Voice 5: freshwater in the Islands Trust Area and to see that coverage that, by design, has covered

[1:17:34] Voice 5: the entire Islands Trust Area to provide a foundation of data and information to process

[1:17:44] Voice 5: going forward that has been formalized and similar and and has been processed

[1:17:50] Voice 5: to be a standardized data set and then to go from that to see the planning

[1:17:56] Voice 5: outcomes from that had some significant advances and in looking at groundwater

[1:18:02] Voice 5: protection DPAs on Galliano and proof of water for the purposes of subdivision

[1:18:09] Voice 5: there uh that project started and like at the swipet table really um almost five years ago

[1:18:18] Voice 5: and and through that development um we created a a bylaw that was then um moved and passed and

[1:18:26] Voice 5: is regulation on on north pender um and and and and now with with um in this past year

[1:18:37] Voice 5: in the official community plan review project of of gabriola island we have undergone a

[1:18:44] Voice 5: freshwater footprint which has essentially a capstone project of of all of this work

[1:18:50] Voice 5: and has engaged social science and trying to understand the on island community condition

[1:19:00] Voice 5: and that's on Gabriola and so if you just look at those outcomes they've

[1:19:08] Voice 5: largely been successful we have a successful DPA we've accepted a

[1:19:12] Voice 5: successful LUB update and we are about to present on by the end of this fiscal

[1:19:20] Voice 5: we're presenting on the freshwater footprint project for for the Gabriola

[1:19:25] Voice 5: uh um local trust committee and and i i imagine that's going to yield positive outcome um so if

[1:19:34] Voice 5: you just look at those three projects we have a lot of work to do um if we want to consider moving

[1:19:41] Voice 5: those to other islands in the island trust area to maybe not duplicate those efforts but to address

[1:19:49] Voice 5: address the fundamental questions that that planning and policy is addressing and so on

[1:19:55] Voice 5: Gabriela it's where can we put affordable housing that's considering fresh water on on Galliano it's

[1:20:04] Voice 5: to protect critical aquifer recharge areas for you know for the future sustainability of of the of

[1:20:12] Voice 5: the island and and um having a local trust committee on north pender consider um uh proof

[1:20:21] Voice 5: of water byline and and take the action to to move it across the finish line shows their commitment

[1:20:28] Voice 5: to

[1:20:28] Voice 4: um

[1:20:29] Voice 5: solving the issue of of not having a regulatory backbone to decisions being made

[1:20:38] Voice 5: with respect to rezoning and subdivision when it comes to proof of water and so

[1:20:47] Voice 5: um

[1:20:48] Voice 10: thanks so I've I'd like to make a couple comments but first I'll hand to others but

[1:20:56] Voice 10: first of all did we receive notification that there was a new agenda in web dev

[1:21:02] Voice 10: of i

[1:21:04] Voice 5: don't know when

[1:21:06] Voice 10: i i don't seem to have it but okay so i had a i had a version of the agenda

[1:21:13] Voice 10: that i downloaded probably last weekend so i didn't see this report so i propose that we

[1:21:22] Voice 10: discuss it in detail may the first in that nobody has had it for very long so um i think that would

[1:21:30] Voice 10: be the best way forward but certainly we can take comments right now um okay who would like to open

[1:21:39] Voice 10: the batting okay sorry i've just messed up my view of um yeah so i'm not sure trustee patrick i think

[1:22:00] Voice 10: you may have been first and then trustee la so go ahead trustee patrick chair patrick i always have

[1:22:05] Trustee Patrick: have questions about water um i i appreciate having this all put together into to one spot

[1:22:14] Trustee Patrick: and i think where some of the confusion comes from is early in the science program there were

[1:22:21] Trustee Patrick: detailed reporting out and community meetings held for like on pender and other islands and

[1:22:27] Trustee Patrick: and on like salt spring i i we haven't had even a report to the local trust committee on

[1:22:33] Trustee Patrick: on the updated recharge mapping and things that have happened.

[1:22:36] Trustee Patrick: And I know Gambier has on their follow-up action list

[1:22:40] Trustee Patrick: an outstanding waiting to be updated on what's been collected on Gambier Island.

[1:22:47] Trustee Patrick: So I think having an understanding of where we are in the data world

[1:22:57] Trustee Patrick: would be extremely helpful from a local trust committee level as well,

[1:23:01] Trustee Patrick: because I think the trustees want to know.

[1:23:03] Trustee Patrick: what information is where to find it um where's the mapping available how can we see

[1:23:08] Trustee Patrick: uh what's available and um on our various islands um a little bit of caution i mean i'm glad that

[1:23:19] Trustee Patrick: north pender showed their commitment to getting it over the finish line salt spring started the

[1:23:23] Trustee Patrick: project salt spring received a draft salt spring trustees last term had a few questions and the

[1:23:28] Trustee Patrick: project disappeared it never came back um i i think we were dedicated we wanted to see it done

[1:23:33] Trustee Patrick: we started the project we funded the project um and it you know so there is some frustration

[1:23:39] Trustee Patrick: as to um getting these things over the finish line um

[1:23:45] Voice 5: um trustee or through the chair can i

[1:23:48] Voice 5: comment on that because i imagine you have a few more and so just to

[1:23:52] Voice 10: um just

[1:23:54] Voice 5: to comment on it are

[1:23:55] Voice 10: you finished trustee chair patrick uh

[1:23:58] Trustee Patrick: generally i mean i think it's just it's nice like i said

[1:24:02] Trustee Patrick: The key is it's good to have it all. There's a lot of digesting. There's this land information screening tool. Now I see Salt Spring says it's ongoing, but I know Salt Spring's terms of reference for the OCP project also identified that we wanted it transparently created the layers of this work and through public engagement.

[1:24:26] Trustee Patrick: So I see we're ongoing. And I didn't even know that. So I think we've got work to do on the transparency side, especially of what's going into these products so that we understand, you know, what's coming out on the other side.

[1:24:43] Voice 10: Yeah. Okay, go ahead, William.

[1:24:45] Voice 10: you hey

[1:24:46] Voice 5: yeah um uh through the chair and thank you uh chair patrick for for those comments um

[1:24:52] Voice 5: yeah just speaking to the gambier um follow-up action list that is based around the freshwater

[1:24:58] Voice 5: atlas um they were i proposed to them that i would provide them um like a test set of the

[1:25:06] Voice 5: pdfs that would be resulting from the freshwater atlas um but um you know from the from the strike

[1:25:13] Voice 5: and and from a lot of delay and and licensing issues and all these things that the freshwater

[1:25:19] Voice 5: atlas has been was delayed and so that's that's that component that's that's where that comes from

[1:25:25] Voice 5: um with respect to salt spring uh let me speak to like the mapping um per island uh because it's a

[1:25:35] Voice 5: really good point because these have been and this is kind of where this all breaks down and and i'm

[1:25:40] Voice 5: not quite suggesting that the rpc is not the best venue or environment to take on these structural

[1:25:49] Voice 5: strategic projects um but what you suggested is where it breaks down um these these projects are

[1:25:57] Voice 5: on the federation wide level um the the later part of the science projects and they were embedded in

[1:26:04] Voice 5: the freshwater sustainability strategy and then it's like yeah how does that go down to the to

[1:26:08] Voice 5: the islands and um uh and you know should have that should have that been a component of of the

[1:26:15] Voice 5: work to you know to visit 12 local trust areas like likely not we did do several community

[1:26:22] Voice 5: information meetings about the project and presented on the project several times um

[1:26:28] Voice 5: so then yeah i mean there's definitely a gap there on how that reaches the local trust committee the

[1:26:34] Voice 5: The other side of it was, and early on in the days when we started the work with groundwater

[1:26:39] Voice 5: recharge and aquifer conceptualization, it was five local trust committees of the Southern

[1:26:44] Voice 5: Gulf Islands that came together that funded that project.

[1:26:47] Voice 5: And I speak to that in my briefing.

[1:26:48] Voice 5: And so that was a little bit insular because, you know, that work was done for the Southern

[1:26:54] Voice 5: Gulf Islands and whether or not that sentiment reached, like, say, islands in the north or

[1:26:58] Voice 5: even Salt Spring is, you know, there's likely a gap there.

[1:27:03] Voice 5: I mean, that's a long time ago now.

[1:27:04] Voice 5: was even before the strategy. So now going forward, I'm totally in agreement with you

[1:27:13] Voice 5: that we need to have the ability to communicate the knowledge and the science and our progress

[1:27:22] Voice 5: to LTCs better. And I'm likely that's going to be a sentiment that's going to come out

[1:27:29] Voice 5: of the freshwater uh sandwich strategy review of course it's uh one sentiment i'll be bringing

[1:27:35] Voice 5: forward into that when i get interviewed um with respect to

[1:27:40] Voice 10: proof of water

[1:27:40] Voice 5: no i'm

[1:27:41] Voice 5: sorry chair i'm still trying oh

[1:27:44] Voice 10: okay go ahead proof of water yeah i was going to ask you about

[1:27:47] Voice 10: that go ahead yeah

[1:27:49] Voice 5: so proof of water on salt spring indeed like it was um salt spring provided

[1:27:53] Voice 5: provided an essential coordination role between regional districts and the province

[1:28:01] Voice 5: and through SWPA and a lot of good work stemmed from that. I think that's something that we don't

[1:28:07] Voice 5: really look upon like even though SWPA has wrapped up or has changed modes there's so much to be

[1:28:15] Voice 5: celebrated from that time I mean it's spawned my job here and and all of this work with the

[1:28:23] Voice 5: freshwater science work you know a lot of it can feed back to there and so during that time

[1:28:28] Voice 5: we were working really closely with the province so the proof of water for the purpose of subdivision

[1:28:34] Voice 5: wasn't just planning staff sitting around making it up like we we worked really closely with with

[1:28:39] Voice 5: the province and went back and forth many times with them to ensure what we were doing was correct

[1:28:45] Voice 5: act um aligned with uh with um regulations and and modi's process um why it fell off the you know

[1:28:55] Voice 5: the salt springs uh agenda that's up to the manager and the island planner i mean i would

[1:29:00] Voice 5: have taken that forward with you as i did with north pender's work and galliano's work when i

[1:29:06] Voice 5: when i get involved it's a go and so no that's not my desk right to move things forward through

[1:29:14] Voice 5: an ltc you need the ltc support and that has to be stick handled by the island planner and the

[1:29:20] Voice 5: manager and so i would kind of like hand that question over to stefan about that um because

[1:29:27] Voice 5: it's just out of my hands and and and there has been some comment on kind of like cherry picking

[1:29:34] Voice 5: like oh let's like what's the analysis of proof of water with when it relates to to modi and and

[1:29:42] Voice 5: And these large questions that I'm under the understanding is not beneficial to take them on at a regional planning stage.

[1:29:51] Voice 5: If an LCC really wants to look at proof of water, they pass the resolution, they open up that avenue to do proof of water.

[1:30:00] Voice 5: for the purposes of subdivision whether or not that lands that a land use bylaw or not

[1:30:05] Voice 5: um and that's that's run by the island planner and and i work really closely with our island

[1:30:11] Voice 5: planners they're my closest colleagues and we do good work and and without that um kind of like

[1:30:16] Voice 5: legal tool that we have um you know it's hard to undertake like that type of work that will

[1:30:23] Voice 5: will result in benefit to an individual local trust committee.

[1:30:27] Voice 10: Thank you, William.

[1:30:29] Voice 10: Yeah, thank you.

[1:30:31] Voice 10: Let's move on now.

[1:30:32] Voice 10: Trustee Elliot, you have a question, comment?

[1:30:36] Voice 14: Yeah, thank you, Chair.

[1:30:37] Voice 14: And thank you for the presentation, William.

[1:30:39] Voice 14: And I do agree, all these attachments are really helpful

[1:30:44] Voice 14: to understanding the different,

[1:30:50] Voice 14: I think the methods and technical basis

[1:30:52] Voice 14: this is the really most helpful point for those of us you know who are not in involved in how is

[1:31:02] Voice 14: it all put together and don't understand that so i i do appreciate that so i wanted to look

[1:31:08] Voice 14: or ask a little bit more about um the groundwater recharge mapping and sort of in in the attachment

[1:31:20] Voice 14: on page 52 that challenges and opportunities talk about reframing recharge estimations through

[1:31:28] Voice 14: landscape soil geology ecosystem function and this approach enabled trust-wide coverage at

[1:31:33] Voice 14: high spatial resolution introduced ecosystem processes and then one of the I guess one of

[1:31:39] Voice 14: the what I'm trying to understand is

[1:31:41] Voice 14: is this going to result in that aquifer conceptualization

[1:31:45] Voice 14: organization that you know the members of the public are going to be able to see

[1:31:50] Voice 14: or is this going to deliver a you know project by project sort of as you said an LTC you know

[1:32:02] Voice 14: wants to do some work in an area so then we've got a map that comes out with this recharge

[1:32:11] Voice 14: charge mapping. Could you walk us through that a little bit? How, you know, what are

[1:32:16] Voice 14: the results? What's available to the public? What's available to the LTC? And yeah, thanks

[1:32:24] Voice 14: for the work.

[1:32:27] Voice 5: Yeah, great. Thank you, Tressie, through the chair. Yeah, no, great question. So ACFOR

[1:32:34] Voice 5: conceptualization is like the phase zero project. That's the baseline. So other areas, say

[1:32:42] Voice 5: like the like metro vancouver they would likely look at like how would how would they structure

[1:32:49] Voice 5: their natural asset data way differently than the island's trust area and and so the aquifer

[1:32:55] Voice 5: conceptualization looks at a hydrogeologic framework and i'm a hydrogeologist and this

[1:32:59] Voice 5: is my 20th year being one um so it's my bread and butter and and it just so happens that

[1:33:06] Voice 5: uh like a groundwater framework a hydrogeological framework for the island's trust works really well

[1:33:11] Voice 5: all for just collating all this data be it terrain be it water be it geology soils landscape biology

[1:33:18] Voice 5: whatever putting all of that in a hydrogeological framework was was the in in my opinion and the

[1:33:27] Voice 5: opinion of my peers the best way forward and this is including discussions that are statements that

[1:33:32] Voice 5: stemmed from SWPA and and working with our with our partners and regional districts and in the

[1:33:38] Voice 5: province and and you know local community members too that had uh interest in and experience in this

[1:33:44] Voice 5: field um so so that that being said the aqua conceptualization model is basically the

[1:33:51] Voice 5: freshwater atlas it's it's all in there all i've i've cleaned all the geological data we've cleaned

[1:33:58] Voice 5: all the soils data we have we have ecosystems data in there like pretty much every all the

[1:34:05] Voice 5: the baseline data that goes into this work is in there. Um, that, that baseline information fed

[1:34:11] Voice 5: into the groundwater recharge mapping project, um, where we under three different, um, projects,

[1:34:18] Voice 5: like not really phases, they're an individual projects. Um, we, we tweaked the methodology

[1:34:25] Voice 5: over that time. And, and now the final methodology has been pushed to, um, 20 different islands,

[1:34:32] Voice 5: well 20 islands across the island's trust area and so that that that work there the the the

[1:34:39] Voice 5: the groundwater recharge uh mapping um it can do two things one it it identifies um areas of

[1:34:48] Voice 5: significance special areas on the landscape that uh deserve to be protected to protect groundwater

[1:34:54] Voice 5: resources and that's doing a favor not only to the island trust but to the province that's handing

[1:35:00] Voice 5: out groundwater licenses and not um you know playing a large role in protecting upland

[1:35:05] Voice 5: ecosystems to protect the recharge area so we're kind of downloaded to that and and then this the

[1:35:12] Voice 5: second um part where where the groundwater recharge potential is is when you pour the

[1:35:17] Voice 5: water over it and then you see how much water goes into the system and then do a water balance on

[1:35:24] Voice 5: on that and um we we tested a little bit of methodology when we when we ran the or when

[1:35:31] Voice 5: we were developing the recharge mapping project for the southern gulf islands to test we did a

[1:35:36] Voice 5: groundwater availability assessment and and it had a like significant amount of

[1:35:44] Voice 5: assumptions and it went through a external review and so that learning was then embedded in the

[1:35:52] Voice 5: freshwater footprint methodology that we have now designed a methodology for the entire island

[1:35:57] Voice 5: stressed area and then that's been moved on gabriel island and so without the groundwater

[1:36:02] Voice 5: recharge mapping that's like a fundamental element or variable that would have been missing from this

[1:36:10] Voice 5: water balance and the freshwater footprint we couldn't do a project so it's a fundamental

[1:36:14] Voice 5: like like project or fundamental um variable for the freshwater footprint to to just determine how

[1:36:22] Voice 5: much groundwater is available and then and then that leads to looking at the vulnerability and

[1:36:27] Voice 5: susceptibility of of not only our communities but but ecosystems and and the ecosystem role that

[1:36:34] Voice 5: that we put into recharge is looking at how much um the ecosystems uh intercept uh precipitation

[1:36:40] Voice 5: and so how much of the rain just doesn't make it to ground because of ecosystems and and that's

[1:36:47] Voice 5: novel in the past um like i'm not even talking about in the island stress area but just in canada

[1:36:53] Voice 5: or even globally even this is um most of groundwater recharge mapping is done by land type

[1:37:00] Voice 5: so it's looking at large areas like forest beach wetland whatever but since we use the vegetation

[1:37:07] Voice 5: vegetation resource inventory, which is really, really good in the Islands Trust area.

[1:37:11] Voice 5: We were able to look at essentially individuals of species to look at crown closure and structural

[1:37:20] Voice 5: stage, how old trees are and what species they are.

[1:37:22] Voice 5: I think I said that, no I didn't, crown closure and species and all of that we put into the

[1:37:29] Voice 5: groundwater recharge model to determine the role of the ecosystem there.

[1:37:33] Voice 5: there. And then, and then the role of the ecosystem comes in later on in the water budget of how much

[1:37:38] Voice 5: it uses. And so there's two different roles there. And to answer your last question, because I think

[1:37:44] Voice 5: you're on the right track here. When there has been a significant individual project, whether

[1:37:52] Voice 5: I've done this for a multifamily housing development on Main Island, several on Galliano,

[1:38:00] Voice 5: And then even looking at some work on Keats Island, where they were drilling for a new groundwater well for their Eastbourne system, that individual projects were then given the recharge mapping to their hydrogeologist to consider for that parcel-based project.

[1:38:23] Voice 5: So the work can be regionally, like, you know, for an island scale assessment, like the freshwater footprint, and then it can also be used on a more specific parcel level, an application level.

[1:38:41] Voice 5: Thank

[1:38:42] Voice 10: you, William.

[1:38:44] Voice 10: Trustee Elliott, go ahead.

[1:38:46] Voice 10: I've come on the

[1:38:47] Voice 10: list, but I'll wait till the end.

[1:38:49] Voice 10: Just

[1:38:49] Voice 14: a follow up. This is really fascinating. And it really is. It has taken four years of having you explain things. And then, you know, we've had the benefit on Gabriola of these community information meetings of seeing some of the outputs and the explanations of how it works and how the, you know, how many pieces there are to coordinate.

[1:39:15] Voice 14: So I do think Gabriel is, you know, benefiting from a much from the maturing of this project or of this overall strategy in a way that probably other LTCs just seeing piecemeal or having that information come forward in a small project or a, you know, sort of site specific information could not appreciate.

[1:39:37] Voice 14: So would you say, William, that we're at the point where we have all the information and the tools available sort of in-house that can be drawn as needed by, you know, as you said, regionally or for an island or for a specific project, say there's a development application.

[1:40:04] Voice 14: like we're at that point now where we've got the tools and the second question is could we develop

[1:40:14] Voice 14: and I think this is a question for RPC process flow for future elected officials and LTCs to

[1:40:23] Voice 14: understand what questions they need to ask for the information that they need

[1:40:32] Voice 14: to make you know grounded decisions in in their various projects like

[1:40:39] Voice 14: articulating that decision process I think is is is important because I agree

[1:40:47] Voice 14: agree that at rpc's level managing this whole project has been challenging um but when you

[1:40:54] Voice 14: see the outcomes for like in our ocp review then i it makes more sense um so i think going into the

[1:41:04] Voice 14: evaluation or the anyway so those are two questions like are we at this point where we've

[1:41:10] Voice 14: we've got everything in house and it can be used and can we develop a process flow through as a

[1:41:18] Voice 14: communication tool for decision-making bodies thanks uh

[1:41:23] Voice 5: great yeah thanks trustee and through

[1:41:25] Voice 5: chair um yeah so let me start with uh do we have the tools no we don't we we we have um

[1:41:34] Voice 5: all of these pieces of the puzzle and and on gabriel we're piecing them together and that's

[1:41:40] Voice 5: the capstone project right like like really we're showing areas of of it it's coming it's bringing

[1:41:50] Voice 5: all of this work together into a comprehensive piece of work that then can be used for for the

[1:41:57] Voice 5: ltc um and and i think in the absence of the freshwater footprint it's really difficult to

[1:42:05] Voice 5: piece all of these layers together. But then we can extract useful, if you want to call them

[1:42:17] Voice 5: methods or modules from the freshwater footprint to then move forward, like the groundwater recharge

[1:42:23] Voice 5: work, right? We have that everywhere. And from the Galliano work, that was actually another

[1:42:33] Voice 5: Another novel way of doing a DPA is to including the entire parcel into the DPA.

[1:42:40] Voice 5: It's almost like, looks like zoning rather than we're used to DPAs being like discrete

[1:42:45] Voice 5: areas of polygons on the map where the groundwater recharges is an intersect with parcels.

[1:42:51] Voice 5: And so you're either in or out.

[1:42:53] Voice 5: And that entire, like there was, we went, Kim and Brad and Robert Kojima did such a

[1:43:01] Voice 5: a great job of stewarding that through the like their community where we're really confident on

[1:43:08] Voice 5: how we came to that dpa um whether or not we have confidence in the way that it's going to roll out

[1:43:15] Voice 5: based on the bylaw that is supporting it but the map and and the actual dpa that came out of it is

[1:43:21] Voice 5: is defensible and so that said yes we have that for everywhere we can go to any ltc and you know

[1:43:29] Voice 5: know give us a year and we'll have uh or less have a dpa map in front of a local trust committee to

[1:43:36] Voice 5: to um to consider options of how they want that to look because every island is going to be different

[1:43:43] Voice 5: and not every island wants a dpa i think on some islands that are adverse to dpas like i think

[1:43:49] Voice 5: doesn't even have a dpa maybe they have one for a wrapper but um but the identifying critical

[1:43:56] Voice 5: act for recharge or is critical groundwater recharge areas for an island can be moved into

[1:44:03] Voice 5: say a scheduled map and an OCP so so that said we do have that and and I I really like your

[1:44:11] Voice 5: sentiment on on like how does this get processed down into local trust committee to make decisions

[1:44:17] Voice 5: that just brings sweet sweet things into my ear by listening to that because that's the whole

[1:44:24] Voice 5: intention of, of, of this work and how it's been framed. If it was framed in a research context,

[1:44:29] Voice 5: it looks so different, but it's been framed in a decision-making context. And, uh, for example,

[1:44:35] Voice 5: we're working right now on a, on a water management plan, kind of like guidance document for,

[1:44:41] Voice 5: for larger rezoning applications, because we noticed in the Southern Gulf Islands that

[1:44:45] Voice 5: But the trustees and residents have been providing some concerns over some rezoning applications.

[1:44:55] Voice 5: And the outcome of that concern is like, well, we need to know what you're doing with stormwater, like what you're doing with water.

[1:45:01] Voice 5: These are all the considerations and the concerns.

[1:45:03] Voice 5: So how do we then help guide the applicant's consultant to do good work, to create a decent report that's not garbage to their applicant?

[1:45:14] Voice 5: So then it comes back to the LTC table and staff can can participate in that to help the LTC make a good decision.

[1:45:23] Voice 5: And so those are kind of like these like a lot of work that's that's not really data driven, but more policy driven that we're trying to get at to look at to create some tools to help LTCs.

[1:45:39] Voice 5: And just my final comment on that is that applicants spend a lot of money by having their hydrogeologists or engineers or whatever telling us what climate is, what groundwater is, and all these background information that we do not need.

[1:45:57] Voice 5: We have them.

[1:45:58] Voice 5: We can give them a state of the island report, reference this.

[1:46:01] Voice 5: this and i think the as i noticed that the freshwater sustainability strategies moved forward

[1:46:07] Voice 5: and and how um applicants have started to catch on that we have this work and asking for it um

[1:46:15] Voice 5: while their consultants are asking for but the applicants ask us for it and including bowen

[1:46:19] Voice 5: island there's been a few rezoning applications we're like hey can we have your recharge mapping

[1:46:24] Voice 5: is such a help because that's a big undertaking for a consultant to do it on a small multi-family

[1:46:30] Voice 5: affordable housing project and we're just saying here take this take this data please work with it

[1:46:35] Voice 5: and and the freshwater footprint just takes that even further so um yeah i i didn't want to be

[1:46:42] Voice 5: like negative at the start saying we don't have it but really the freshwater footprint is is is

[1:46:46] Voice 5: the capstone and and and that's the one that's going to really drive uh questioning is the same

[1:46:52] Voice 5: with um list or suitable land analysis so we have a really great methodology and and we've worked

[1:46:58] Voice 5: really hard we've listened to the community we've listened to concerns from trustees and we

[1:47:01] Voice 5: implemented those and it's only been advanced on five islands so it's like is is the next step

[1:47:06] Voice 5: going to the other islands and doing it and and there's some data that's missing from other

[1:47:11] Voice 5: islands like like uh watershed resiliency mapping is only done on the five islands we have suitable

[1:47:16] Voice 5: land analysis on for a list so so there's there's work to be done so i i like i just can't say that

[1:47:23] Voice 5: now we have like five years and we have all the tools but we have so much going for us that

[1:47:28] Voice 5: that you know like we have we have momentum and and it's going to cost less and less as we go

[1:47:33] Voice 5: because we've done all the structural work data collation and cleaning and machine learning and

[1:47:38] Voice 5: it was such a heavy data lift and now it's like implementation time

[1:47:42] Voice 5: right

[1:47:43] Voice 14: okay yeah so

[1:47:44] Voice 14: so just just just to follow up and i don't have any more questions thank

[1:47:48] Voice 14: Thank you for that answer. So those two important pieces I would like RPC to discuss today, even if we don't move anything forward, it's communication to the what kind of communication needs to be made to applicants, members of the public, so that they don't go through that extra stage process.

[1:48:10] Voice 14: if we already have that information, and what kind of process, decision, I don't know if that's an

[1:48:19] Voice 14: intercommunication between planning, the decision maker, and sort of the science that we have in

[1:48:25] Voice 14: house, so that the right questions are asked at the time to bring the information forward.

[1:48:33] Voice 14: Because in the gap of decision makers not knowing what those questions are, there needs to be some

[1:48:39] Voice 14: sort of um a bit of a map maybe or a pathway so okay i just

[1:48:44] Voice 14: like rpc to consider that thank you

[1:48:46] Voice 14: sure

[1:48:47] Voice 10: um okay

[1:48:48] Voice 10: just a moment just a moment uh so we're coming up to um 12 o'clock um and so william

[1:48:58] Voice 10: could you answer this but keep it fairly succinct and then we'll take a break for um i suggest

[1:49:06] Voice 10: I suggest we take a break for 30 minutes. I do have some comments and questions, but I'll keep them till after the break. And I note, Chair Patrick and Chair Borthwick do as well.

[1:49:18] Voice 10: Just before we go on, is everybody happy with a 30 minute break once William has answered this one? Yeah. Okay, anybody? Okay, William, go. Okay.

[1:49:29] Voice 10: uh

[1:49:30] Voice 5: yeah um so through the chair uh yeah thanks uh trustee elliott because um again you're advocating

[1:49:37] Voice 5: for something that i've been advocating for behind the scenes a lot and and there's two

[1:49:44] Voice 5: things it's a freshwater help desk that is an internal and external um intake form that that

[1:49:53] Voice 5: that, that is structured. So there there's categories and, and, and it's ticketed. And so

[1:50:01] Voice 5: if there is a, say, if it's a, if it's a referral from, and I think, and the second part is working

[1:50:09] Voice 5: on a referral process. And so I'm embedding them together. So our internal referral process of

[1:50:15] Voice 5: referring work to um to the freshwater desk has been mostly on my relationships with the planners

[1:50:24] Voice 5: and those are robust in areas in other areas they're not and so there's been times where

[1:50:30] Voice 5: there's been significant like on hornby significant um groundwater work that i wasn't involved in at

[1:50:36] Voice 5: all and it caused um issue and the province was even calling me and saying what's going on with

[1:50:42] Voice 5: this act for mapping i have no idea and so that's something we could work on and and i think for the

[1:50:48] Voice 5: for the freshwater help desk to have the ability for not only myself but stefan to to track the

[1:50:54] Voice 5: the amount of inquiries and what they are um whether that's internal or external is really

[1:50:59] Voice 5: important and and and stefan's been really supportive of that i'm not saying he's not so

[1:51:04] Voice 5: we're that's that's something that we've been uh looking for so maybe it results in a like a

[1:51:09] Voice 5: freshwater policy, internal policy or something like that. I know that David Marler, when he was

[1:51:14] Voice 5: my supervisor, we spoke to a little bit of that. And all of that is to service what you're saying

[1:51:21] Voice 5: is to catch these applicants to not go and spend money. And often that just happens by a planner

[1:51:27] Voice 5: calling me up and saying, what do we need? And it's like, oh, yeah, stop, stop. We just need

[1:51:31] Voice 5: these things. We don't need them to do two full pumping tests on wells underneath houses from

[1:51:38] Voice 5: in the 1960s like stop don't know like that's we don't need that and and and so yeah and and also

[1:51:45] Voice 5: like i don't want to toot my own horn but i kind of a pretty good handle on the freshwater

[1:51:50] Voice 5: regulations in the province and subdivision regulations it's like i've been here for 10

[1:51:54] Voice 5: years it's like how can i not right and so it like i i through that referral process we can

[1:52:01] Voice 5: really catch stuff and and that's where it should be right like it shouldn't i don't think we should

[1:52:06] Voice 5: burden the the local trust committee on that like it really should be staff that that could could

[1:52:12] Voice 5: ease the burden on applicants like that so that's kind of where our role comes in i think as planners

[1:52:18] Voice 5: and specialists who help them yep

[1:52:21] Voice 10: okay right so i make it uh five minutes to the hour let's uh

[1:52:27] Voice 10: reconvene at 25 minutes past the hour okay everybody gather your questions we'll have

[1:52:33] Voice 10: have another round. I'm first on the list. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

[2:21:52] Voice 3: couple of

[2:21:53] Voice 10: minutes to go uh

[2:22:55] Voice 5: hi chair boland

[2:22:56] Voice 10: okay so uh i think uh chair patrick and uh trustee

[2:23:03] Voice 10: bothwick both had their hands up uh so um yeah

[2:23:10] Voice 5: about about that chair i mean i'll let trustee

[2:23:13] Voice 5: patrick speak for herself but um chair patrick did um send me questions in an email so i just

[2:23:21] Voice 5: Just wondering if we can, how we're going to handle that.

[2:23:24] Voice 5: Well,

[2:23:24] Trustee Patrick: I was going to say, oh, I sent those to you so you could see them before I asked

[2:23:29] Trustee Patrick: them, but Trustee Borthwick should go first because I'm a second time speaker.

[2:23:32] Trustee Patrick: Okay, thanks.

[2:23:34] Voice 10: Okay.

[2:23:34] Voice 10: And I'd just like to say, we still have to do bylaw, the bylaw stuff.

[2:23:40] Voice 10: And given that this report came at very short notice, I believe that this will be on the

[2:23:46] Voice 10: agenda again on May the 1st.

[2:23:48] Voice 10: So just bear that in mind.

[2:23:50] Voice 10: OK, Stefan, is that that's OK with you, that this will be this report will be discussed on May the 1st at RPC again?

[2:24:01] Voice 10: Sure. I think it's necessary because it arrived at such short notice.

[2:24:07] Voice 10: Personally, I haven't been through it. So, OK, Trustee Borthwick, away you go.

[2:24:12] Voice 6: Give me just one second. I'm going to jump to another computer.

[2:24:15] Voice 6: I have a friend staying and he was sleeping in my office, so I'm reclaiming my office now.

[2:24:20] Voice 6: Yeah,

[2:24:21] Voice 5: Trustee Boland, about the timing of the next meeting, this is perhaps a question for RPC to consider, because we, I don't think we've kind of laid out the timeline yet on the freshwater strategy review.

[2:24:42] Voice 5: review, if it is indeed passed budget in March, that is it the will of the RPC to have a discussion

[2:24:55] Voice 5: around that review or once the budget is passed, will staff start proceeding with that project

[2:25:05] Voice 5: in front of that meeting on May 1st like would be put out a request for proposal prior to that

[2:25:13] Voice 5: meeting or or is that a subject that the RPC would wish to discuss I maybe Stefan has more of an idea

[2:25:21] Voice 5: of that but I don't and so because I also agree with you this came late that this briefing and

[2:25:27] Voice 5: it's it's more than a briefing as you notice there's a lot of supporting documents in it so

[2:25:32] Voice 5: So I would like also for the RPC to have a really good chance to review it.

[2:25:38] Voice 5: I would also invite the RPC, if they wish to, to join the Gabriola's Freshwater Footprint presentation when that comes in March to see that work in progress.

[2:25:53] Voice 5: So just about the review, I was just wanting to share what would be the want or will of the RPC to be involved in that?

[2:26:01] Voice 10: I don't know right now. Let's move through the questions that we have on the table i.e.

[2:26:09] Voice 10: Trustee Borthwick, Trustee Patrick and I see Toby you have your hand up is that another iteration

[2:26:16] Voice 10: or did you want to interject something helpful right

[2:26:19] Voice 14: now? No I can wait I think it's just

[2:26:28] Voice 10: I can't understand you we have feedback on your line maybe two microphones

[2:26:37] Voice 10: okay you're gonna wait okay trustee Borthwick go ahead

[2:26:42] Voice 6: um yeah very very quick and yes um like appreciate the depth of the the report unfortunately have not

[2:26:49] Voice 6: had a chance to go through it uh with as much depth as I'd like to I have very very simple

[2:26:53] Voice 6: question for Director Cermak, just wanting to confirm, and I think it's been confirmed

[2:27:01] Voice 6: contextually in discussion since now, but the list is the SLA, and I'm just curious,

[2:27:11] Voice 6: was there a specific rationale for changing the acronym?

[2:27:17] Voice 2: Sure, through the chair?

[2:27:19] Voice 3: Go ahead.

[2:27:20] Voice 2: Thank you.

[2:27:21] Voice 2: Yeah, the implication that the suitable land analysis, it was done because the initial sort of gathering of data was meant to help inform potentially suitable areas for, well, for potentially increased densities.

[2:27:36] Voice 2: But what we found that that was really confusing people as if we were trying to drive densities to these areas without consideration of greater context.

[2:27:44] Voice 2: and so things were taken out where it was getting taken out of context when in fact we've always

[2:27:50] Voice 2: used these tools as a kind of a screening tool so we just kind of made the name reflect more of

[2:27:55] Voice 2: its actual use rather than sort of like a an agenda sure

[2:27:59] Voice 6: yeah no that's great um i obviously

[2:28:03] Voice 6: have spoken to this before i still have some reservations around uh and i i have i don't know

[2:28:11] Voice 6: I assume, based on feedback and whatever else that I've heard from other places, that this

[2:28:19] Voice 6: has been more of a useful tool on some other islands.

[2:28:23] Voice 6: I know on Denman, every time the maps come out, I've had a lot of feedback from local

[2:28:31] Voice 6: experts and from my own experience.

[2:28:34] Voice 6: There's definitely issues.

[2:28:35] Voice 6: This is not to say, and again, I'm really in favor of these kinds of tools.

[2:28:39] Voice 6: I think it's an awesome thing, and I just have to be clear that, like, there are some concerns there, and it's not an indictment in any way of anyone who's worked on it.

[2:28:50] Voice 6: I really appreciate the effort and what's gone through there, and I know that there are gaps, and that's been an issue.

[2:28:58] Voice 6: But really, that's it.

[2:28:59] Voice 6: And yeah, I mean, I like a lot of what I've been able to read so far.

[2:29:04] Voice 6: It's helped me sort of get some more context, and I just need a little more time.

[2:29:09] Voice 10: Thank you very much. Trustee Padwick, go ahead.

[2:29:14] Trustee Patrick: I don't think I have to get into all my questions. I think some of it will help

[2:29:17] Trustee Patrick: just as future reiterations go through. My first point was really about

[2:29:25] Trustee Patrick: understanding the purpose of the programs and the tools and I think that's the communications piece

[2:29:30] Trustee Patrick: that we all know needs to be improved and also kind of following up on what we heard from the

[2:29:36] Trustee Patrick: biologist earlier that you know terms of reference for professionals and our and our our development

[2:29:43] Trustee Patrick: information bylaws and all of those things need to be clear so that you know applicants are are doing

[2:29:49] Trustee Patrick: um you know what we want them to do and and so forth so i i don't need to answer i think at this

[2:29:55] Trustee Patrick: point other than i think it's important as we think of these things and communicate them clear

[2:30:00] Trustee Patrick: clearly the difference between regional and site-specific data needs and all of those things

[2:30:05] Trustee Patrick: going forward. And again, our tools as we, how can they be used? And I think that sort of relates

[2:30:12] Trustee Patrick: again back to the communications piece, you know, how can we use the tools and the information that

[2:30:16] Trustee Patrick: we have to even create more resilience to climate change or restore water recharge areas where

[2:30:23] Trustee Patrick: they've been ditched historically and things of that nature? You know, is that a possibility?

[2:30:28] Trustee Patrick: Can these tools work toward that? Who's interested in that? Is that an application thing or is that more of community climate action groups that would want to have that information? Or even homeowners, perhaps. I don't know what level of detail we get down to.

[2:30:44] Trustee Patrick: But I think the last thing and most important is the coordination aspects. And I think that's something Salt Spring contributed greatly to through SWPA was that there's multi-jurisdictions involved. And to really do the work that needs to be done for the long-term resilience is we've got to be doing that coordination.

[2:31:04] Trustee Patrick: And I think that's a question for you, is there anything this committee could do to help prioritize coordination at the federation level?

[2:31:12] Trustee Patrick: I think Salt Spring learned a lot, but could we be better at the federation level?

[2:31:20] Voice 10: Yes, please respond, William.

[2:31:22] Voice 10: Yeah,

[2:31:22] Voice 5: thanks, Chair, and thank you, Trustee Patrick.

[2:31:27] Voice 5: Yeah, all really great questions.

[2:31:29] Voice 5: Questions. The communication piece is, I agree with you, we need more communications, we need more support and resources around that. I mean, I'm trying to find the best way to tweak my projects and eke out some communication tools out of that.

[2:31:48] Voice 5: um like the freshwater atlas that was really just starting to generate some sort of communications

[2:31:55] Voice 5: on the data side like how i can i'm a also like i'm a gis person i'm a cartographer so i can put

[2:32:01] Voice 5: forward that but can i really build a good website and not really but um and and maybe that's not the

[2:32:07] Voice 5: method on the communications piece so i i really agree with you and then you know that's a role

[2:32:12] Voice 5: the trust area services plays and we need to uh coordinate with them deeper um there so uh just

[2:32:19] Voice 5: on the federation side we have for coordination we have to look inside as well right um as it is

[2:32:26] Voice 5: with coordinating with like others i i'm glad you brought up like uh community climate action groups

[2:32:31] Voice 5: because the people who are in the know i have been coordinating with them right like um bowen

[2:32:38] Voice 5: an island is doing a really big um ocp review and and there's a bunch of um researchers from

[2:32:44] Voice 5: simon fraser university and i'm pulling together data for them and then i've done that for other

[2:32:49] Voice 5: islands main mainland mainland conservancy for example and so um and and most of those

[2:32:56] Voice 5: communication pieces is like from my grassroots going out in like in the community or knowing

[2:33:03] Voice 5: my networks and flexing on networks and that's that's how that coordination has been going and

[2:33:09] Voice 5: then also my work with the regional districts has been amazing with the drinking water and

[2:33:13] Voice 5: watershed protection program that's where a lot of this has been coordinated out through the rdn

[2:33:17] Voice 5: and now this uh couch and valley regional district and of course with swipa that really greased the

[2:33:22] Voice 5: wheels early on but

[2:33:24] Voice 1: but i agree

[2:33:24] Voice 5: with you that we need to coordinate better and and as it relates

[2:33:28] Voice 5: to climate action i i really enjoy that question because it the freshwater sustainability strategy

[2:33:34] Voice 5: as you know you're part of the development it it was steeped in our uh climate emergency

[2:33:39] Voice 5: declaration and um all like all of the projects have spoken to climate during the development

[2:33:47] Voice 5: of the thing but can we put everything together like a list um uh type of assessment to um

[2:33:55] Voice 5: identify climate vulnerability? And yes, and this is why I'm so interested and excited and

[2:34:01] Voice 5: maybe to the chagrin of my planning services director, but I've been really speaking with

[2:34:06] Voice 5: TAS director, Director Frater, about the upcoming land advisor update to the Island Stress

[2:34:13] Voice 5: Conservancy, because I really believe that could be a tool that coordinates all of the work that

[2:34:18] Voice 5: the ITC has been doing and planning to create a climate resiliency tool as well as you know

[2:34:25] Voice 5: facilitate the needs of their conservation plan so yeah I think there's a lot of internal

[2:34:30] Voice 5: coordination we could do and then and then external as well through communications.

[2:34:35] Voice 10: Okay I am going to thank you I'm going to put myself on the list because otherwise I'll forget

[2:34:40] Voice 10: get what I wanted to say. So, number one, you are quite critical, really, of the response of

[2:34:48] Voice 10: local trust committees. But I would say that the communication gap there is large. And I'd like to

[2:34:59] Voice 10: go back to the fact that we discussed very early on in this term that there would be a frequently

[2:35:06] Voice 10: to ask questions and i think last july we discussed the fact that in october there would

[2:35:13] Voice 10: be a communications plan neither of which have materialized and so i do have an issue with that

[2:35:21] Voice 10: and i also have an issue with the fact that um the southern gulf islands reports um you've

[2:35:29] Voice 10: stated for the second time that the methodology was flawed so i feel like we're in some i didn't

[2:35:35] Voice 5: no I didn't say that I'm sorry I didn't I didn't say that it was flawed okay

[2:35:39] Voice 10: the methodology has

[2:35:41] Voice 10: been updated since then and my question would be do you intend to revisit the data sets and to

[2:35:49] Voice 10: correct the maps that were created at that time which I took huge issue with because they seemed

[2:36:00] Voice 10: seemed completely at odds with, you know, experience on the island.

[2:36:05] Voice 10: And I also go back to the fact that, you know,

[2:36:08] Voice 10: the Ceterna Oficial Community Plan,

[2:36:13] Voice 10: I think the last iteration was in the 90s.

[2:36:16] Voice 10: You know, I think probably every OCP has a watershed designation

[2:36:20] Voice 10: which is highly protected in recognition of the fact

[2:36:24] Voice 10: that it's the area where recharge occurs.

[2:36:26] Voice 10: hers and there's no acknowledgement of that in all of this work it's almost as though you know

[2:36:33] Voice 10: before we began this project water was not protected so I really struggle with the fact

[2:36:41] Voice 10: that we indeed don't communicate practically to communities what has been and can be achieved and

[2:36:50] Voice 10: used and the proof of water I also asked if we could have a verbal update you have provided that

[2:36:58] Voice 10: partly but my real issue was how does it differ from the proof of water that's required by the

[2:37:05] Voice 10: province and indeed downloaded to people via MOTI and because they've put a huge amount of work in

[2:37:12] Voice 10: with respect to you know where to drill a well where not to drill a well how to do the test

[2:37:17] Voice 10: so I'd really like to understand that but today I don't want to dwell on that maybe at the next

[2:37:22] Voice 10: meeting we can discuss that I've seen one proof of water draft um very early on but again that

[2:37:30] Voice 10: could be on the website and promoted in the freshwater sustainability website perhaps it is

[2:37:36] Voice 10: this I haven't looked at it recently so um my I suppose my real question would be and I would

[2:37:44] Voice 10: welcome response in may do you intend to revisit the material that was put out at the end of the

[2:37:52] Voice 10: southern gulf islands um project to update those maps of vulnerability maps and with respect to

[2:38:02] Voice 10: new methodology that you've evolved to um

[2:38:09] Voice 5: well i didn't make the maps um so that those like that

[2:38:16] Voice 5: that project, I was project manager and it was under contract and we had a consultant

[2:38:24] Voice 5: undertake that work. And then that work was reviewed and it wasn't all bad. And so that

[2:38:33] Voice 5: review and the work moving forward through the subsequent years of undertaking groundwater

[2:38:43] Voice 5: water recharge mapping. The groundwater recharge mapping methodology was improved over those three

[2:38:51] Voice 5: years. And now we landed on the methodology that we have now that we're confident on. And now that

[2:38:59] Voice 5: that work is being forwarded by the Gabriela Local Trust Committee, that's where that work

[2:39:08] Voice 5: that you're suggesting like this i've been really considered update but just the implementation of

[2:39:15] Voice 5: the methodology of of not only groundwater availability but now we're deeply considering

[2:39:21] Voice 5: the role of water chemistry and water quality which wasn't considered in the southern gulf

[2:39:26] Voice 5: islands work and um you know also to be fair that southern gulf islands work was five thousand

[2:39:32] Voice 5: dollars per island so there is it was more of of understanding the role of recharge and undertaking

[2:39:42] Voice 5: that work and um we we really did go back and forth whether or not the the maps were um like

[2:39:52] Voice 5: the vulnerability maps and and the overall groundwater availability was was reasonable

[2:39:57] Voice 5: at the time and um you know and but but it was a public process and so we decided to put it forward

[2:40:03] Voice 5: And it was beneficial, even though it was perhaps a political hardship, and maybe those hardships are lasting to this day.

[2:40:12] Voice 5: From the review of that, we have a really amazing product of the freshwater footprint, and that's where it sits.

[2:40:20] Voice 5: So if it's the will of the regional planning committee, or I'm not sure who undertakes that work now, probably down to the local trust committee, to move the freshwater footprint work on their island, and that's when that work will happen.

[2:40:39] Voice 5: There's no methodology to be updated because it's been changed and it's now embedded into the freshwater footprint.

[2:40:50] Voice 10: Okay, thank you.

[2:40:51] Voice 5: Yeah. Okay. And then on the proof of water, I mean, I want to be respectful here. If I came across as critical of LTCs, not particularly, I might be critical of the approach to some of this work.

[2:41:18] Voice 5: work and so for proof of water particularly saturnia is unique compared to most of the

[2:41:25] Voice 5: islands you don't have a proof of water in your subdivision regs as i understand it and so

[2:41:31] Voice 10: via the emoji no that's what that's

[2:41:35] Voice 5: what i'm saying you don't have it in your leb because

[2:41:38] Voice 5: it defaults to modi where the majority of the islands trust area or the local trust committees

[2:41:44] Voice 5: or local trust areas sorry they in they have proof of water in their land use bylaw and and and that

[2:41:51] Voice 5: is a card that is of a benefit to those islands and so for for north pender and hopefully coming

[2:41:57] Voice 5: into the future uh salt spring to um update their proof of uh water bylaw to to meet the demands of

[2:42:05] Voice 5: the day like those you're right some of those official community plans and land use bylaws when

[2:42:10] Voice 5: they're like the the the volumes are wrong and and and you know it's not harmonized with the water

[2:42:16] Voice 5: sustainability act so bringing all of those to to the surface is is is beneficial uh staff and i

[2:42:23] Voice 5: have talked with this at length of doing a kind of like a model bylaw but it didn't make sense

[2:42:30] Voice 5: because it every island is different so the model bylaw now is the one that's sitting in the north

[2:42:36] Voice 5: Pender land use bylaw.

[2:42:37] Voice 10: So I have a question. Are you telling me that most of the LTCs did have a

[2:42:44] Voice 10: proof of water and that you're updating a requirement and that that's being updated?

[2:42:50] Voice 5: Yes. Yeah, that's correct. Yeah.

[2:42:52] Voice 10: So, well, I didn't know that. I'd be interested to know

[2:42:56] Voice 10: and seeing those. But anyway, that's a detail. I don't want to drag everybody down that rabbit

[2:43:02] Voice 10: at all with me. So thank you, William. Let's move on now to, I believe, Director Cermak and then

[2:43:12] Voice 10: Trustee Elliott, and then I think we should close this discussion and move on to the next item on

[2:43:17] Voice 10: the agenda. Director Cermak, go ahead.

[2:43:20] Voice 2: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, William, for your answers.

[2:43:23] Voice 2: Just to sort of provide some detail on some of the questions that relate to my work. You're right

[2:43:29] Voice 2: that we were aiming for a communications plan in fall

[2:43:32] Voice 2: that fell off the rail for two key reasons.

[2:43:36] Voice 4: One,

[2:43:37] Voice 2: the BCGU strike,

[2:43:39] Voice 2: and then two, the sort of bylaw enforcement merging

[2:43:43] Voice 2: of portal and OLC sort of took over

[2:43:48] Voice 2: how much time we could, and the policy statement,

[2:43:52] Voice 2: how much time we could get from the communications specialist

[2:43:55] Voice 2: to help us review.

[2:43:56] Voice 2: And then, but William and I have been in discussion

[2:43:59] Voice 2: and I've been discussing certainly with our communication specialist.

[2:44:02] Voice 2: We know that the communications plan is outstanding,

[2:44:04] Voice 2: really looking to hope, and I'm just kind of shooting from the hairpin here,

[2:44:09] Voice 2: hoping to emphasize the work on the freshwater atlas,

[2:44:12] Voice 2: which has, I think, a lot of the answers and deliverables within it,

[2:44:15] Voice 2: but we haven't strategized that whole approach or not.

[2:44:18] Voice 2: But we know that

[2:44:19] Voice 2: that atlas is ready to come live soon.

[2:44:21] Voice 2: And of course, we have a communications plan that will go out with it.

[2:44:24] Voice 2: So that's one.

[2:44:27] Voice 2: What was the other one?

[2:44:28] Voice 2: the help desk sorry uh oh yeah

[2:44:31] Voice 2: resources sorry i

[2:44:33] Voice 5: was just sorry through the chair that the

[2:44:35] Voice 5: implementation plan is a follow-up action but we don't but it's the will of the trust council to

[2:44:41] Voice 5: not undertake an implementation plan right now so i i don't understand like staff have approached

[2:44:47] Voice 5: that by putting a business case together to do a review and implementation plan because that was

[2:44:51] Voice 5: the will of the rpc um but now that's not happening so the july 2026 date for implementation

[2:45:00] Voice 5: plan i i don't i don't know what that is right because we don't have one or we're not undertaking

[2:45:07] Voice 5: one right now so

[2:45:10] Voice 10: um okay i i have word that toby has lost wi-fi and she does have a resolution to

[2:45:17] Voice 10: propose so if we're done at the moment I think we should leave this topic and go to the bylaw

[2:45:22] Voice 10: and then we'll come back at the end when Toby has rejoined us and see what she has to propose

[2:45:30] Voice 10: okay everybody yep in the absence of dissent okay thank you William and I'd also like to thank

[2:45:41] Voice 10: Robert Kojima for his work. I see he's, I hope he's enjoying himself in Mexico, but yeah, great.

[2:45:54] Voice 10: Okay, on to the next item on the agenda, which is bylaw compliance and enforce, oh sorry,

[2:46:02] Voice 10: I beg your pardon, I've jumped, housing action plan update. I think I've read that. Go ahead,

[2:46:10] Voice 10: ahead, Stefan.

[2:46:13] Voice 2: Excuse me. Thank you, Chair. So this was a sad moment almost to present because

[2:46:19] Voice 2: it's the last report that I had worked with Robert Kojima to present. In summary, what this is,

[2:46:25] Voice 2: it's an update as per our RPC direction in last May to update the housing options toolkit.

[2:46:32] Voice 2: The work plan templates were updated based on recent experience, expanded zoning and policy

[2:46:38] Voice 2: options to discuss tiny homes on wheels and stvrs the references were were updated the sort of

[2:46:46] Voice 2: baseline reports and what have you especially to mention the housing needs assessments

[2:46:51] Voice 2: also updated and changed as we talked about earlier the suitable land analysis to land

[2:46:57] Voice 2: information screening tool that that so those all those things have been updated and uploaded

[2:47:04] Voice 2: to the website so they're available for public consumption and actually that last tool the land

[2:47:11] Voice 2: information screening tool it has the methodology of what it is available to the public and we

[2:47:17] Voice 2: spent some effort to make sure that it was written in plain language thank you to our

[2:47:23] Voice 2: health care communication specialist so that's available up there that completes the draft items

[2:47:29] Voice 2: items in all those tools so it's a nice uh parking gift of RPM Kojima as he walked out the door so

[2:47:35] Voice 2: thank you sir um yeah so I I could talk about each individual tool and what have you but you'll

[2:47:43] Voice 2: notice that there's a substantive discussion or not substantive pardon me a summary of list the

[2:47:50] Voice 2: land information screen tool and if you can beg my indulgence I don't want to waste time with this

[2:47:55] Voice 2: committee asking too many questions about it because one, I couldn't

[2:47:59] Voice 2: answer too many. But two, I can give as per the report

[2:48:03] Voice 2: or the briefing, just show you what it looks like. It's not a

[2:48:07] Voice 2: public tool, though. I want to be clear about that. It's an internal document or

[2:48:10] Voice 2: internal GIS that we use to screen, to use information

[2:48:15] Voice 2: and apply it. And then, of course, I know that the follow-up

[2:48:19] Voice 2: questions, I can feel Trustee Patrick from here, Chair Patrick, saying yes, but

[2:48:23] Voice 2: But we want to be able to manipulate the data, not manipulate, sorry, but, you know, evaluate it and apply it in the way the community would like to do.

[2:48:31] Voice 2: And that certainly is becoming available to each LTC as we go through their major projects.

[2:48:36] Voice 2: That's how we prioritize the work is that as you're going through the OCP project, we've been updating this tool as we go along.

[2:48:44] Voice 2: And we finally get to this point that we're comfortable internally sharing the methodology, applying the work.

[2:48:50] Voice 2: work and then as per each ltc uses it they can then the planners and the specialists will help

[2:48:57] Voice 2: you understand it in greater detail so my only purpose here today if it's the will of the chair

[2:49:01] Voice 2: i can share my screen show you what it looks like and just some of the how it goes on and off

[2:49:07] Voice 2: but it's not really meant to debate it or anything like that i'm not looking for feedback on i just

[2:49:12] Voice 2: thought you can see it but if you don't want to do that you want to move on i'm happy with that too

[2:49:16] Voice 2: and we can take this up in another time.

[2:49:18] Voice 2: So what's the

[2:49:19] Voice 10: will of the chair?

[2:49:20] Voice 10: So, Stropo, who'd like to see it?

[2:49:23] Voice 10: I see a thumbs up from somebody,

[2:49:26] Voice 10: but I hadn't asked the question.

[2:49:29] Voice 10: Two thumbs up for we'd like to see it, I believe.

[2:49:32] Voice 10: Sam, go ahead.

[2:49:36] Voice 6: Just indicating that, yeah, we'd like to see it, I think.

[2:49:42] Voice 10: Okay, show us. Thank you.

[2:49:45] Voice 2: My pleasure.

[2:49:45] Voice 2: pleasure. Let me just share my screen. Okay. I have a green box showing around Pender Island.

[2:50:00] Voice 2: Oops, I got to move my visuals around. I'm going to make it big if I can. Are you still

[2:50:06] Voice 2: seeing the whole map there?

[2:50:08] Voice 13: Yep.

[2:50:08] Voice 2: Made my screen big. I don't see my little green box. Okay. So this is an internal document

[2:50:13] Voice 2: as you notice at the top. I assume you can see my cursor. It says North Bender Land Information

[2:50:19] Voice 2: screening tool. So that's an internal facing document. This is the one, we've done it

[2:50:25] Voice 2: individually per island. So North Pender was our sort of guinea pig, if you don't mind me

[2:50:31] Voice 2: that expression. So our test island, North Pender. The methodology I have separate, but just for

[2:50:39] Voice 2: before I dive into this, I will show you on your affordability, on the housing options toolkit page.

[2:50:44] Voice 2: I assume you are all very familiar with this page now, the housing affordability.

[2:50:48] Voice 2: and i talked about the land information screening tool you can see that the pdf is there and that

[2:50:55] Voice 2: it has the methodology in simple form but let's get to the fun part this so as per your document

[2:51:04] Voice 2: it identifies two basic layers of information which we've just called type one and type two

[2:51:09] Voice 2: i suppose there's a type three but that's with confidential information such as

[2:51:14] Voice 2: archaeological sites. So we're not really going to look there. But we have type one data. These

[2:51:21] Voice 2: are the ones that have variables. They've been weighted equal to each other. But this is where

[2:51:28] Voice 2: the local trust committees may be able to say, we want this to be weighted so much and the value

[2:51:33] Voice 2: can be so much. And I won't get too much into that. But this is where you had a presentation

[2:51:39] Voice 2: from our specialists the biologists earlier and from our freshwater senior freshwater specialists

[2:51:44] Voice 2: they've been instrumental these specialists are creating these layers and reviewing them and

[2:51:48] Voice 2: making sure that they're applicable and so for example sensitive ecosystems you look at that

[2:51:54] Voice 2: and it just looks like kind of a blob and there's a legend of course which will tell you whoops

[2:52:00] Voice 2: what those are if you start turning them on maybe i'll turn them on separate you'll see that there's

[2:52:08] Voice 2: various layers the risk ecological communities and then the dominant age of forests so all these

[2:52:16] Voice 2: layers when they come together they start to screen out they start to uh they they sort of

[2:52:24] Voice 2: speak to each other those varied matrices so if each one is the whole thing sort of out of 100

[2:52:29] Voice 2: and each one has a weight and a variable that reaches 100 i'm doing a very layman's version

[2:52:35] Voice 2: version. I'm sure William is squirming as we speak right now.

[2:52:38] Voice 2: So that's one example of type one data. So this data has been reviewed, like I said,

[2:52:42] Voice 2: by the biologists, both ITC and in our department. And this data is all available to us. All

[2:52:49] Voice 2: they've done is make sure it fits into this GIS format because they aren't always all

[2:52:55] Voice 2: formatted the same. So that's quite a lot of work. And of course, a huge shout out to

[2:53:00] Voice 2: Kendra, our relatively new mapping manager, who was able to make this all function and work

[2:53:06] Voice 2: together. And of course, the planners who helped make it make sense. So those are type one for

[2:53:11] Voice 2: protection of the environment. But there's, as I said, that was environmental data. We also have

[2:53:18] Voice 2: water. And so we were talking about recharge potential, water resiliency,

[2:53:23] Voice 2: watershed resiliency, groundwater well density. That's always my favorite.

[2:53:28] Voice 2: and then we have saltwater intrusion things like that so you can see there's a logical intrusion

[2:53:36] Voice 2: there's no you know saltwater intrusion in the protected areas but you can see how around obvious

[2:53:41] Voice 2: places such as in Brackett Cove or in Grimmer Bay that there's near Port Washington there that

[2:53:49] Voice 2: there's a there's no groundwater intrusion so these layers are all put together they're very

[2:53:55] Voice 2: The variables are all kind of mushed together in terms of, you know, it's actually much more detailed.

[2:54:00] Voice 2: It's not mushed.

[2:54:01] Voice 2: Can I

[2:54:02] Voice 10: ask a question just to park it for later?

[2:54:04] Voice 10: Sure.

[2:54:05] Voice 10: I think there's, isn't there a flood risk with the rising sea level map?

[2:54:13] Voice 10: And I'm assuming that would also play into this, but not later.

[2:54:18] Voice 2: Yeah, not yet.

[2:54:19] Voice 2: We don't have one solid database.

[2:54:21] Voice 2: based we do have various sources of information for that but we're working on um we're aware that

[2:54:28] Voice 2: you know crd has some potential sea level rises versus sunshine coast has their own mapping versus

[2:54:33] Voice 2: others so we don't have one solid although william i knew i knew it do you have a input into that

[2:54:38] Voice 2: william

[2:54:39] Voice 5: uh yeah thanks uh chair boland for that comment um so we we were looking at shoreline type

[2:54:45] Voice 5: earlier in this work. And we ended up taking that out as it's not a data set that's island-wide.

[2:54:54] Voice 5: It's really only located to certain areas. And so we decided, is it more of a type two overlay

[2:55:01] Voice 5: to be considered in the process that didn't really fit into the methodology to process it?

[2:55:08] Voice 5: it. So there's, there's coastal risk mapping. It's sparse. It's not, it's, you know, it's not

[2:55:17] Voice 5: trust-wide, but several regional districts have put a lot of time behind it. I know that there's

[2:55:22] Voice 5: work, some, some coastal hazard risk on, on, on Salt Spring and the Southern Gulf Islands,

[2:55:28] Voice 5: and then some on Gabriola, but it's, it's, it's quite sparse. And, and as that, it's easier as

[2:55:36] Voice 5: as those data sets get updated,

[2:55:38] Voice 5: then we can put them in as type two layers,

[2:55:40] Voice 5: which is just like overlays for consideration

[2:55:43] Voice 5: rather than processing them

[2:55:44] Voice 5: as part of like the outcome of the type one list analysis.

[2:55:51] Voice 12: Okay, great.

[2:55:52] Voice 12: Thank you.

[2:55:55] Voice 2: Okay.

[2:55:56] Voice 2: So, and like I said,

[2:55:57] Voice 2: I only promised a high level review of this.

[2:55:59] Voice 2: So we were talking about type one data,

[2:56:04] Voice 2: data, which is the variables that are weighted and are, I don't want to say manipulative,

[2:56:11] Voice 2: but it's the ones that LTCs and future community groups, if you wish, can weight the importance

[2:56:17] Voice 2: of.

[2:56:19] Voice 2: So the other, and there's a number of those that can be done.

[2:56:23] Voice 2: The other one is type two, and these are overlays.

[2:56:25] Voice 2: These are not, they're not variables per se, they're just straight up overlays.

[2:56:30] Voice 2: And examples of that, of course, are the road network.

[2:56:34] Voice 2: The shoreline, these are the shoreline types, as we just talked about.

[2:56:38] Voice 2: Of course, the parcels, forest contiguity, I think there's been a lot of discussions on that.

[2:56:45] Voice 2: Critical habitat, there you go.

[2:56:49] Voice 2: And then a repair and area development permit areas, for example, should be, oh, I thought, there they are, the yellow.

[2:56:56] Voice 2: And ALR, and other things like covenants as well.

[2:57:00] Voice 2: So all these, actually the covenants took a long time and protected areas.

[2:57:05] Voice 2: So these are, you know, this is actually where a lot of the work happened is assessing, it's fine to try to create a suitable land analysis where potential future housing may be considered.

[2:57:19] Voice 2: Remember, this is just the starting point of a conversation.

[2:57:22] Voice 2: conversation but these type two data points were meant to be to ensure that protected areas that

[2:57:31] Voice 2: were protected whether they're you know the ALR or whether they're in the in a park or other suitable

[2:57:38] Voice 2: park protected area that they're not considered at all because it's probably not surprising to

[2:57:44] Voice 2: this group that you know the best water availability tends to be in those places that are undeveloped

[2:57:48] Voice 2: And if you didn't put this overlay in there, it would look like we should all develop in the middle of forests and stuff like that.

[2:57:55] Voice 2: So all that put together, you get a map, which I suspect you've seen.

[2:58:02] Voice 2: And this is mainly done on the crunching out all the variables.

[2:58:09] Voice 2: And then if you overlap the various types of data, you get a very confusing looking product.

[2:58:18] Voice 2: and this is what the planners get to do eventually help you with that so whoops pull that one off

[2:58:24] Voice 2: so the point about that is so you get a sense of once you start drilling into it you'll see it at

[2:58:31] Voice 2: the local trust committee level so I'm peeling back the layers that's what's happening at the

[2:58:37] Voice 2: LTC levels is that you'll get this broad assessment based on these variables and then we'll start

[2:58:44] Voice 2: putting on the layers that are relevant to each LTC. So that's my high-level example. I hope it's

[2:58:50] Voice 2: at least a visual example of what's going on. But the idea is that this is primarily designed

[2:58:56] Voice 2: at this stage to be used for major OCP updates and to begin that basic discussion, which everybody

[2:59:04] Voice 2: seems very interested in, is if you're thinking about future densities or where to transfer from,

[2:59:12] Voice 2: you know you want to take densities out of a certain area and put them into a certain area

[2:59:15] Voice 2: if there's a sort of no net gain type approach this tool is meant to help you and honestly it's

[2:59:22] Voice 2: not a new tool we've been using these things since planning started it's just a new way of

[2:59:27] Voice 2: doing it it's just a new way of presenting the data so

[2:59:29] Voice 4: i'm sorry if that

[2:59:30] Voice 2: was a bit clunky there's

[2:59:32] Voice 2: better uh technic technical people than i but uh i'll answer quick questions that

[2:59:37] Voice 10: was fine thank

[2:59:38] Voice 10: Thank you.

[2:59:39] Voice 2: And

[2:59:40] Voice 10: Trustee Brothwick, go ahead.

[2:59:45] Voice 6: So going on the directive that you are not in a position to get into questions on this per se right now,

[2:59:54] Voice 4: will

[2:59:55] Voice 6: there be a point where that is a thing?

[2:59:59] Voice 2: Very true.

[3:00:00] Voice 2: this off and look at you um so the point of discussion is we're what we've done is we've

[3:00:08] Voice 2: created a methodology which is defendable by the professionals involved whether it's a gis

[3:00:13] Voice 2: professional a biologist freshwater specialist in the planner um that's our team and so the

[3:00:19] Voice 2: methodology is defendable it's all

[3:00:21] Voice 6: right stephan if i can just interrupt briefly just i because i

[3:00:25] Voice 6: have lots of questions that i think would would sort of play into what you're the information

[3:00:29] Voice 6: you're giving me specifically sure but but if we're not going to get into asking like specific

[3:00:35] Voice 6: questions right now i all i really just need to know is are we is there a plan to have a point

[3:00:41] Voice 6: at which we can sort of dive into this with a little bit more depth or is that that that's

[3:00:47] Voice 6: really the the heart of i i and i i i want to know all the things but sure but i want to know

[3:00:53] Voice 6: that i'm doing that at an appropriate time when you're ready to do that okay

[3:00:56] Voice 2: all i'm asking i was

[3:00:57] Voice 2: I was trying to build up the point of where we are by the product we've produced, the methodology now that it's established, and we're using it at the LTC by LTC level.

[3:01:06] Voice 2: Like you said, at Denman, you've looked at it and didn't like it, is what I heard you say.

[3:01:12] Voice 2: Or you've asked to have some revisions thereof, or you found things that weren't helpful to you.

[3:01:18] Voice 2: So it's currently being applied at the LTC level.

[3:01:21] Voice 2: However, if the Regional Planning Committee, as noted, staff have operationalized this as part of the Housing Options Toolkit, which is part of the housing program.

[3:01:32] Voice 2: If the RPC would like to make that a priority as a deliverable going into next term, because again, you have housing coming as a top priority that we'll be able to put resources on, we can have this discussion in a more robust time for RPC to provide further input if you wish at that time.

[3:01:51] Voice 2: But currently, no, we don't have, there's no plan to bring it to RPC to really critique it because it's been an internal operational thing that we would do normally.

[3:02:00] Voice 2: But what we've done is brought it to the LTC level who are doing OCP when they're using it so they can critique it.

[3:02:06] Voice 2: And of course, that's reiterated.

[3:02:07] Voice 2: Well, if there's any strong critique, we go back and we effectively will reconsider the methodology.

[3:02:15] Voice 2: methodology. But if the RPC wants to get involved more at a ground level with the methodology,

[3:02:20] Voice 2: I would welcome that feedback. And then you can request trust counsel to make your top priority

[3:02:25] Voice 2: and we'll go from there.

[3:02:29] Voice 6: Okay. I feel like I have had specific questions that have been

[3:02:33] Voice 6: communicated in the past and I don't feel any closer to understanding those things.

[3:02:41] Voice 4: and

[3:02:41] Voice 6: so my question is if not now which is absolutely fine and i'm i'm like i'm i really

[3:02:50] Voice 6: want to be i want to stress i'm super supportive of the concept um and uh i have concerns based on

[3:02:59] Voice 6: use that i have already seen and and in moments in which it has been held up as the methodology

[3:03:05] Voice 6: and being incorporated where it has had a negative impact

[3:03:10] Voice 6: and has directly made conversations harder.

[3:03:16] Voice 6: And I have tried to speak with staff about this.

[3:03:19] Voice 6: I have warned about the moments when that has happened.

[3:03:21] Voice 6: I have had questions about this for a hot minute.

[3:03:25] Voice 6: And I don't mind if that's not now.

[3:03:28] Voice 6: Whatever we need to do.

[3:03:29] Voice 6: But I am concerned about it being used

[3:03:32] Voice 6: used without some of those questions being able to be answered and obviously it has come leaps

[3:03:37] Voice 6: and bounds from the last time that we got a that i got a comprehensive briefing on it the fact that

[3:03:42] Voice 6: it is no longer a pdf is very exciting uh that's great and i really appreciate all the work and

[3:03:48] Voice 6: effort that's gone into it i'm not i don't want to be an enemy of this project i want to be its

[3:03:53] Voice 6: strongest proponent and i have questions that i feel need answering for me to to step into a place

[3:04:00] Voice 6: of being able to support it and and and appreciate its use instead of feel apprehensive and i want

[3:04:07] Voice 6: that okay

[3:04:09] Voice 2: i don't know where your questions are so bear with me for a sec i i should point out

[3:04:13] Voice 2: though when you saw me going through those layers each of those layers are kind of the equivalent

[3:04:17] Voice 2: of the pdf and for us if you wish to change the variables we have to take that away and do the

[3:04:23] Voice 2: work and then come back so that it's it's not actually integrating as you go along they are

[3:04:28] Voice 2: our separate slices of the pie.

[3:04:29] Voice 2: Yeah, I'm pretty,

[3:04:30] Voice 6: I've been watching closely this process.

[3:04:32] Voice 6: And I think that the program,

[3:04:34] Voice 6: like the way that it's presented now

[3:04:35] Voice 6: is obviously more user-friendly.

[3:04:39] Voice 6: It's more actionable for staff immediately.

[3:04:42] Voice 6: Like, totally appreciate that.

[3:04:45] Voice 6: That's great.

[3:04:47] Voice 6: I have other bits and pieces.

[3:04:48] Voice 6: I don't want to, like you said,

[3:04:50] Voice 6: this is not where we're going into it right now.

[3:04:51] Voice 6: What

[3:04:52] Voice 1: I'm asking is,

[3:04:53] Voice 6: is there a moment where we're going to get

[3:04:55] Voice 6: to have a more fulsome briefing

[3:04:57] Voice 6: or or be able to interrogate this process in a different way that's the question and and it can

[3:05:02] Voice 6: just be you don't know or not right now but that's i need yeah and sorry chair go ahead

[3:05:08] Voice 6: i just

[3:05:11] Voice 2: would like to jump in there and say what i'm hearing is you know broad concern but also

[3:05:15] Voice 2: specific concern and your specific concerns for your denman ocp project or similar um your island

[3:05:22] Voice 2: planner working on that project should be able to address those questions and if not then you can

[3:05:27] Voice 2: bring it to me for the greater regional approach if the RPC wishes to do so. We can make resolutions

[3:05:33] Voice 2: and put it on the project list and we can go from there.

[3:05:38] Voice 10: Thank you both. I'm not entirely sure where that leaves us other than some, I think what

[3:05:48] Voice 10: is suggested is that your LTC should tackle this and maybe come back to RPC with concerns

[3:05:57] Voice 10: if that's not being resolved, and to Stefan indeed.

[3:06:02] Voice 10: My general comment would be, I would like to see a use case.

[3:06:07] Voice 10: I would like to see a planner show us how they would use this tool

[3:06:14] Voice 10: in case there was a subdivision being proposed.

[3:06:19] Voice 10: Because ultimately what I feel is I look at, you know, the current OCPs and LUBs and I think so, you know, the end point is the end point that somebody proposes a subdivision.

[3:06:37] Voice 10: And we say to that person, I'm sorry, those densities cannot be used here anymore because the land use analysis tool indicates that it's not a good place for these densities.

[3:06:49] Voice 10: And I think that's going to be a very tricky conversation.

[3:06:53] Voice 10: But I mean, is that the end point of a use case where you would use this tool?

[3:06:58] Voice 10: And is that to some degree, as you said, you know, it's these are the nuts and bolts of planners that they've been doing.

[3:07:09] Voice 10: You know, it's what they do. Consider all of these factors.

[3:07:13] Voice 10: It's just a new way of visually considering those factors in a very systematic way.

[3:07:20] Voice 10: But is that I'd like to see a use case where somebody says this came before me and this is how I did it.

[3:07:28] Voice 10: And this is my conclusion. That's what I'd like to see, because until I see that, it's very interesting.

[3:07:36] Voice 10: And I can think of all sorts of questions I would like to zoom in on.

[3:07:40] Voice 10: on but it doesn't make it real to me in terms of an ltc a planner a subdivision application

[3:07:48] Voice 10: whatever okay that's where i am

[3:07:51] Voice 4: can

[3:07:54] Voice 10: that be accommodated is

[3:07:56] Voice 2: that a question or yeah

[3:07:58] Voice 10: can a planner show us walk us through a use case the discussion like set up a

[3:08:05] Voice 10: a kind of a mini i don't know webinar almost

[3:08:11] Voice 2: through the chair i think currently the best example is how it's being applied to the ocp

[3:08:16] Voice 2: amendment projects and so i i would start there otherwise when planners are reviewing things like

[3:08:24] Voice 2: subdivision we're using the official community plan and it depends what the ocp says okay so

[3:08:30] Voice 10: So OCP updates, so maybe one of the projects might volunteer to have it demoed on there,

[3:08:38] Voice 10: how it has influenced the OCP update.

[3:08:42] Voice 10: And I will go now to actually, yes, William, do you have something to say?

[3:08:50] Voice 10: And then Toby.

[3:08:52] Voice 5: Yeah, thank you, Chair.

[3:08:53] Voice 5: I just wanted to maybe just extend out, I don't know, an informal invitation for Trustee Borthwick to reach out to me if some of his concerns are not related to much of like how we're identifying this tool, like the planner processes, but more on like the technical side.

[3:09:15] Voice 5: I'm really interested in hearing that.

[3:09:17] Voice 5: I mean, I've been a proponent of this tool and helped it get over the finish line by

[3:09:23] Voice 5: managing it for the past six months.

[3:09:24] Voice 5: So I'm quite involved in the technical aspects of it.

[3:09:27] Voice 5: I think how we approach the tool and put it into planning is similar challenges of the

[3:09:35] Voice 5: freshwater stimulating strategy, like we're missing the communications piece there.

[3:09:38] Voice 5: I think a really interesting application of it has been Main Island with their, what do they call it, like alternative housing strategy.

[3:09:49] Voice 5: They just wanted to find opportunity on the island to do alternative housing.

[3:09:55] Voice 5: And I think the tool was really helpful in them identifying some neighborhoods that that could be a benefit to the island.

[3:10:03] Voice 5: So that might be one, but I'm not sure. I don't want to speak to that.

[3:10:06] Voice 5: but i just wanted to um put it out there if there's like technical questions about the tool

[3:10:11] Voice 5: um i think i'm kind of the best bet to to try to balance those and if i need to reach back to

[3:10:18] Voice 5: the gis to ask any detailed spatial questions i can do that but i don't really think it's going

[3:10:23] Voice 5: to get that deep it's if there's a technical question it's more of like the process and the

[3:10:27] Voice 5: overall methodology so i just wanted to offer that thank you

[3:10:30] Voice 10: thank you okay uh toby go ahead

[3:10:32] Voice 10: it and then some thanks

[3:10:35] Voice 14: can you hear me now yep okay uh great so yeah following up on them what

[3:10:41] Voice 14: you're saying will william uh my my my interest is always around communication um particularly

[3:10:51] Voice 14: with the public um what you're articulating right a use case was um released to the public

[3:11:03] Voice 14: in terms of like here's a map with at the time it was called suitable land analysis

[3:11:09] Voice 14: areas that are more and less suitable for additional development because we are going

[3:11:14] Voice 14: through an OCP review we're looking at where if anywhere to put additional secondary dwellings

[3:11:20] Voice 14: where to remove subdivision potential and all of that so this was part of a great presentation

[3:11:28] Voice 14: and by the planner, a lot of work had gone into it, you know, beforehand in preparing that.

[3:11:38] Voice 14: But what happened when the sort of the slides or the PDF, you know, whatever it was, the output

[3:11:44] Voice 14: was released without methodology and without an explanation of the different layers or what they

[3:11:51] Voice 14: meant that was then used um in different ways by the public and interpreted in ways that

[3:11:59] Voice 14: were not intended honestly and so it actually became quite damaging to the public trust because

[3:12:05] Voice 14: people didn't understand what they were looking at they thought you know they're looking at maps

[3:12:10] Voice 14: saying my property is in this red zone what does that mean um or you know this lake has you know

[3:12:17] Voice 14: orange around it like so releasing um an output and so this is why i appreciate director sermag

[3:12:24] Voice 14: this is for internal planners use when they get a direction from the ltc saying we want to do this

[3:12:32] Voice 14: here's the weighting of certain characteristics that we want to see and this is what happened

[3:12:37] Voice 14: on main island exclude these areas include these considerations and then you get a map that's an

[3:12:44] Voice 14: an output that you can look at and that changes all the time and so it was useful in Maine

[3:12:50] Voice 14: but in the way that it was released on Gabriel it was basically harmful because people didn't

[3:12:57] Voice 14: understand what they were looking at so what I would like to ask and I think RPC's job and our

[3:13:03] Voice 14: role is to consider the community interface aspect of these tools and how the public can

[3:13:11] Voice 14: can understand them and use them and so in future what kind of method like can we release

[3:13:20] Voice 14: or list a methodology or an information tree for explainers that go along with these outputs

[3:13:31] Voice 14: particularly if they're going to be seen by the public to help them understand what they're

[3:13:36] Voice 14: looking at and does our pc need to give direction at this point is there further development of a

[3:13:41] Voice 14: the list tool needed? Do we have a little bit of runway still to the end of term to refine this so

[3:13:49] Voice 14: that future trust councils aren't going to encounter the same problems that we've seen on

[3:13:55] Voice 14: Fabriola? Thank you.

[3:13:59] Voice 10: Thank you. And Josh Brodthwaite?

[3:14:05] Voice 6: Yeah, so I appreciate the invitation

[3:14:08] Voice 6: from from uh william um and i'm on a personal level yeah fascinated in mapping tools i think

[3:14:16] Voice 6: it's really cool i think again want to be a big fan of this i think tying it a little bit to what

[3:14:23] Voice 6: trustee elliot was just talking about my my issue with the the specific technical uh uh capacity or

[3:14:31] Voice 6: or, or, or, or capabilities of the tool are like, I, number one, like I have a great deal of faith

[3:14:39] Voice 6: in staff and I have a lot of confidence in, uh, their professional capacity and knowledge and

[3:14:46] Voice 6: expertise. Like that's, and I also just don't, I would, this would not, I would not be bringing up

[3:14:51] Voice 6: if I had those concerns, that wouldn't be something that I would want to bring up in this

[3:14:54] Voice 6: kind of meeting. I would hope to do that in a more professional way through the director and

[3:14:58] Voice 6: and whatever else, I don't ever want to call into question your expertise in a public forum.

[3:15:03] Voice 6: And I don't feel the need to, like, that's why I haven't done it. Um, that's absolutely not my,

[3:15:08] Voice 6: not my concern. Um, nevertheless, like there can be gaps in data and maps that I have seen in the

[3:15:15] Voice 6: past. Absolutely. And that's not your fault. That's just the data. That's just how shit works.

[3:15:19] Voice 6: I totally pardon me. Um, so I, I understand that component, um, and I really appreciate it. And

[3:15:25] Voice 6: it's hard work. Like mapping is, is a ton of work and you're doing it across a lot of islands.

[3:15:29] Voice 6: that are in many ways resistance to a lot of data collection techniques.

[3:15:34] Voice 6: It's a thankless task in a lot of ways.

[3:15:37] Voice 6: And I think the tool such as it exists right now is, again,

[3:15:41] Voice 6: leaps and bounds beyond where the last time I saw it.

[3:15:44] Voice 6: And I'm really glad.

[3:15:44] Voice 6: This is a lot of the stuff that I wanted to see back then.

[3:15:47] Voice 6: And it looks great.

[3:15:49] Voice 6: The questions that I have and have had,

[3:15:52] Voice 6: and I apologize if this is taking us off track here,

[3:15:58] Voice 6: and I know director Cermak did not want to get into a lot of questions and I'm just going to

[3:16:01] Voice 6: lay them out so that maybe it's less of a mystery and I'm not expecting an answer necessarily right

[3:16:05] Voice 6: now just to so you can understand where I'm coming from um the I I have questions about

[3:16:14] Voice 6: methodology as just trustee Elliot was talking about in terms of like um I understand that

[3:16:20] Voice 6: there's lots of uh like different weightings can be given to different values and those can be

[3:16:24] Voice 6: transposed and those can be evaluated one of the major questions I had when we when we started

[3:16:28] Voice 6: briefing on this i can't remember if it was an rpc or if it was at an ltc meeting but um was

[3:16:36] Voice 6: how are those being developed um what is the plan to work up those weightings where is the

[3:16:44] Voice 6: um and and i understand that this is a an internal tool this is a staff tool i i personally am of the

[3:16:50] Voice 6: opinion that the politicians are the last people who should be getting into the nitty-gritty of

[3:16:55] Voice 6: like figuring out how and where to staff develop and and implement tools like you don't need us

[3:17:01] Voice 6: to tell you how to do your jobs and we're not qualified in a lot of cases to tell you how to

[3:17:06] Voice 6: suck eggs um that being said when there are political ramifications and certainly in terms

[3:17:13] Voice 6: of like communications ramifications so in terms of communicating out our methodology and the work

[3:17:19] Voice 6: that we're doing as a as a body we are one of the front lines in terms of getting that

[3:17:24] Voice 6: communication out there and i what i want to be able to do is to defend you know to the to the

[3:17:30] Voice 6: hilt the work that we're doing because i think in virtually every case it's extremely good and

[3:17:36] Voice 6: of a very high quality and i can't do that unless i know certain things and one of those things with

[3:17:42] Voice 6: this is okay so if we are doing waiting and there's waitings that are um discretional um

[3:17:49] Voice 6: how is that how is that discretion being done i know certainly when we talked about it like one

[3:17:53] Voice 6: of the initial bits of modeling was that we were going to weight everything equally.

[3:17:57] Voice 6: Then there's been other things where we're going to value for different things. That's totally fine.

[3:18:00] Voice 6: And for different projects, you should evaluate things at different levels. It's supposed to be

[3:18:05] Voice 6: a dynamic tool. Totally appreciate that. My question at the time was, okay, when there are

[3:18:12] Voice 6: discretional values being made and when it is, if you're doing a thing, so if you're setting

[3:18:17] Voice 6: this up, say the start of a new term, are you having a meeting six months in? Is this coming

[3:18:23] Voice 6: coming to an LTC meeting where you're saying, okay, what are your priorities as the LTC?

[3:18:28] Voice 6: At what point are we establishing that methodology for this term? And then how often are we reviewing

[3:18:35] Voice 6: that? And when I asked those questions the last time I saw this, and trustee Graham, I think it

[3:18:40] Voice 6: was an LTC meeting, the answer we got was, oh, we haven't thought about that. Which is fine,

[3:18:49] Voice 6: But that's OK. But I think it does need to be considered. And like, how often is that getting reviewed on what criteria is that being set? And because we should have if we're if this is going to be a tool that staff are using on the daily, which I hope it gets to be that to that case, we need to I want to as a local trustee, but also specifically as vice chair of the RPC, I think it's very important.

[3:19:16] Voice 6: And this is where I think this conversation is more than just a technical conversation with William or a specific, you know, a specific talk or from my LTC perspective, this tool is being slowly implemented across the Islands Trust area.

[3:19:33] Voice 6: So as a regional tool, as a tool that was initiated by staff and is being developed to help their work, which I want it to, as RPC vice chair and as an RPC member, I feel like we have a duty to at least understand what's being done.

[3:19:50] Voice 6: I'm not saying that we should tell you what to do or not, but I need to understand it so that I can then defend its use to other people who might be critical of it for whatever reason.

[3:19:59] Voice 6: Um, and I am concerned in some of my conversations with staff that there's a bit of a blindness

[3:20:09] Voice 6: in that, and this is not anyone who's, I'm not going to get into the specifics of who,

[3:20:13] Voice 6: but like, uh, and there's no, there's no judgment here for me, but I worry that there's, um,

[3:20:21] Voice 6: a lot of excitement around a good, like a very potentially really awesome tool, which

[3:20:26] Voice 6: which is occasionally blinding us to potential shortcomings or moments where it's an issue.

[3:20:32] Voice 6: And I have

[3:20:33] Voice 6: specifically had moments where I've had maps generated using this tool,

[3:20:38] Voice 6: brought to a public meeting, which then undermined a lot of the process and like

[3:20:44] Voice 6: caused a serious problem that I then was really kind of unable to rectify or sort of smooth over.

[3:20:49] Voice 6: and i made a point to staff in that moment that like i don't think you should bring these meetings

[3:20:57] Voice 6: because we talked about it we don't don't think you should bring these maps beforehand they came

[3:21:02] Voice 6: they were a problem and and i want to be the number one fan of staff work and maps are like

[3:21:10] Voice 6: my whole jam love it want to be able to be your biggest cheerleader and without understanding

[3:21:19] Voice 6: how the pot the process for how it's going to be implemented and i and i agree in terms of what

[3:21:23] Voice 6: director cermak is talking about in terms of like there's maybe some communication and i i totally

[3:21:28] Voice 6: appreciate the rationale for the name change in terms of like misapprehension of how it was being

[3:21:32] Voice 6: used i don't think that i've ever not understood how this tool was planning to be used i've been

[3:21:38] Voice 6: very excited about it since i heard about it and um knowing that there were some pretty major

[3:21:45] Voice 6: major issues in basic data stuff, which again, don't blame anyone for that, but there's still

[3:21:50] Voice 6: a problem. Is there, and without knowing and without, when I got answered with, well, I don't

[3:21:55] Voice 6: know, or we don't really have a plan for this, or I get kind of, it gets pushed away. My concern

[3:22:01] Voice 6: gets pushed away at various points when I'm saying, well, is there a tool or is there a methodology

[3:22:07] Voice 6: for me as a trustee to, or like what's the process for rectifying those errors?

[3:22:15] Voice 6: And I get pushback. And then a sort of, like, loyalty to a tool, as opposed to a loyalty to the outcome. That becomes a serious problem for me. And I think that is a regional planning committee concern. And, and, and like I say, I like I just want to be really clear, I want to support this absolutely to the hilt.

[3:22:39] Voice 6: and instead what i what i wind up with is is an opaque kind of process not not really clear in

[3:22:47] Voice 6: terms of how things were coming together and and and what the intention was and there are issues

[3:22:52] Voice 6: in terms of like the scope and the way that a lot of the housing projects stuff has gone and

[3:22:58] Voice 6: certainly i've seen this on denman whereas there's there's an element of like we're trying to pre-plan

[3:23:03] Voice 6: for things as opposed to evaluating the specific options that we actually have and we're coming at

[3:23:10] Voice 6: the same problem from different directions and and that's fine we can talk about it but I

[3:23:16] Voice 6: what I've experienced is that I get shut down on this concern or I I'm feeling a little dismissed

[3:23:23] Voice 6: about it and I I don't want that because I don't I have personally good relationships with everyone

[3:23:28] Voice 6: that I've spoken to about it but I it's I can't deny that there's a great deal of frustration

[3:23:33] Voice 6: there. And I want to not be frustrated. I want to be on site. That's where I'm coming from. That's

[3:23:39] Voice 6: why I'm asking specifically, is there going to be a moment where we have a specific briefing on

[3:23:44] Voice 6: how this has come out? And I obviously have had a briefing on this tool a while back,

[3:23:51] Voice 6: but the RPC has not. And if it's being used in that way, I think we need an opportunity to have

[3:23:59] Voice 6: some insight and pull back the cover not to not to tell staff how to do their job but so that we

[3:24:05] Voice 6: understand how the job is being done so that we can defend the work in the public that's my concern

[3:24:11] Voice 6: thank

[3:24:12] Voice 10: you very much sam i can hear your passion and your frustration and well well said okay i'm

[3:24:20] Voice 10: going to actually jump the queue and hand it to director serma because i think he really needs to

[3:24:26] Voice 10: answer Sam and if not now come up with a proposal about you know later if you want to go away and

[3:24:34] Voice 10: have a chat with your staff and come back that would be great and I see Toby saying she has

[3:24:39] Voice 10: emotion but I'll go quickly to to Director Cermak and then to Toby go ahead Stefan I am conscious

[3:24:51] Voice 10: of the time so we have talked about this for quite a while so yeah go ahead

[3:24:57] Voice 2: thank you chair

[3:24:59] Voice 2: There's a lot to unpack there.

[3:25:01] Voice 2: Thank you, Trustee Borthwick.

[3:25:02] Voice 2: It is good to hear your concerns.

[3:25:04] Voice 2: I haven't heard you express them to me directly.

[3:25:07] Voice 2: So I think the basic answer to your question is RPC can make a resolution.

[3:25:11] Voice 2: We can give you a more detailed breakdown of what the process is.

[3:25:15] Voice 2: But I'll remind you of what the briefing is.

[3:25:19] Voice 2: There's probably more information in that briefing than perhaps meets the eye.

[3:25:23] Voice 2: I know you would have read it.

[3:25:25] Voice 2: It does sort of give you some basic information.

[3:25:27] Voice 2: I did deliberately sort of point to the website showing that the methodology is posted there.

[3:25:32] Voice 2: It is written in common language, not in the detailed language.

[3:25:35] Voice 2: We have an internal version, which is much more broken down.

[3:25:38] Voice 2: And that methodology, formalizing that methodology such that it can be produced for presentation took a little bit longer than desirable.

[3:25:47] Voice 2: So you're right.

[3:25:47] Voice 2: We were a little bit ahead of ourselves in terms of producing that using the tool versus showing the methodology.

[3:25:52] Voice 2: And we've been, I think we've all just discussed about what the impacts of that are.

[3:25:57] Voice 2: So if the LTC, I suspect Trustee Elliott has a resolution on standby for a resolution.

[3:26:04] Voice 2: So maybe before I go any further, I just want to say that, yes, we can come back.

[3:26:08] Voice 2: And I don't see why not.

[3:26:09] Voice 2: It's a housing option tool.

[3:26:11] Voice 2: You can get more information on it.

[3:26:14] Voice 2: And really what I hear is you're seeking more information and more explanation.

[3:26:18] Voice 2: And that's a very good conversation.

[3:26:20] Voice 10: Yeah, specifics.

[3:26:21] Voice 10: I'll go to Trustee Elliott.

[3:26:23] Voice 10: I'll just say one thing that struck me when I was listening to Sam.

[3:26:28] Voice 10: Basically, to planners, it's kind of an abstract, interesting thing.

[3:26:33] Voice 10: But to a resident on an island, they zoom in on their own lot and they go, as Toby mentioned, why is that red?

[3:26:43] Voice 10: And, you know, I think it's that interface between this abstract, interesting intersection of all this information

[3:26:51] Voice 10: and the particular which is a resident who immediately looks at their lot and the consequences

[3:26:59] Voice 10: for their island and their piece of that island and i think planners maybe are forgetting that

[3:27:05] Voice 10: that it's not an abstract concept if you're living it and somebody is about to deliver

[3:27:11] Voice 10: some new tablet from the mountain that will affect you so i'm going to just

[3:27:16] Voice 2: jump in there i i must

[3:27:17] Voice 10: must

[3:27:17] Voice 2: remind everybody and i i can't imagine you aren't aware of this and that is that it is the

[3:27:22] Voice 2: best information we have available and i know we live in the age of information when everybody

[3:27:26] Voice 2: thinks there's more

[3:27:27] Voice 2: information but

[3:27:28] Voice 10: it's the best we have i'm just saying that in the communication

[3:27:31] Voice 10: that's where the gap is that it's an interesting abstract information source and then it's like

[3:27:38] Voice 10: oh my god what does this mean for me on this island on this piece of it so back to uh trustee

[3:27:45] Voice 10: Elliot go ahead Toby thanks

[3:27:48] Voice 14: I won't beat around the bush I move and I think you've all got the

[3:27:53] Voice 14: notion now but regional planning committee requests staff to provide options and recommendations

[3:27:58] Voice 14: to improve communication of the methodology of the nationalities to create models in the list tool

[3:28:08] Voice 14: and that these accompany any public release of maps or models that support LTC products

[3:28:15] Voice 14: Sorry, I changed it a little bit, improve.

[3:28:19] Voice 14: So speaking, and don't suck at it until.

[3:28:23] Voice 10: Do you

[3:28:24] Voice 14: want to get that on

[3:28:25] Voice 10: screen if you could, please?

[3:28:30] Voice 12: Okay, I'm going to, I'm going to put that on screen.

[3:28:38] Voice 10: And then Toby make any edits you would like before you.

[3:28:43] Voice 14: yes

[3:28:44] Voice 10: so to improve

[3:28:44] Voice 14: communication on the methodology and rationale and yeah so i recognize that a

[3:28:58] Voice 14: simplified sort of methodology what what are the data layers now exists on the website that's

[3:29:05] Voice 14: helpful um it doesn't i think we're halfway there it's a little too simplistic i think there is

[3:29:13] Voice 14: something between this and the you know really in-depth granular level that planners and uh

[3:29:19] Voice 14: staff are looking at something that you know has has a legend what each color means um and then

[3:29:29] Voice 14: the planner would also take like they need to interpret the meaning of it what does this

[3:29:36] Voice 14: translate to and i think that's what was missing like the narrative not just what it is because

[3:29:43] Voice 14: people don't understand what it is without a planner explaining what it

[3:29:51] Voice 14: means translating that into what is that you know at the ground level so

[3:30:00] Voice 14: I know you've all thought about this a lot I think if you could just bring back

[3:30:03] Voice 14: some options that you know flesh out this sort of basic methodology there

[3:30:10] Voice 14: should be a template for a narrative story for each map that's produced and I

[3:30:15] Voice 14: think that would help every decision-making body and member of the

[3:30:20] Voice 14: public that are looking at that and that was that's what I would ask for people

[3:30:24] Voice 14: just needed to understand and without that they filled their own information

[3:30:28] Voice 14: made their own interpretation and it got really messy so um thank you welcome any input on the

[3:30:37] Voice 14: motion thanks sure would

[3:30:39] Voice 10: anybody like to speak to this have you you've moved the motion have you

[3:30:44] Voice 10: toby yeah yes but i haven't okay okay anybody like to second or let's talk to it first any

[3:30:52] Voice 10: Any amendments anybody can suggest?

[3:30:54] Voice 10: Go ahead, Sam.

[3:30:55] Voice 6: Yeah, I'm happy to second this when the time comes.

[3:31:00] Voice 6: And I appreciate where Trustee Elliot is coming from.

[3:31:05] Voice 6: My, and this is good, like this, we should do this.

[3:31:11] Voice 6: My one thing is that I don't want this to be the only thing.

[3:31:14] Voice 6: I also, there's a version of this that is,

[3:31:18] Voice 6: i would like uh i would like to have that community that methodology and rationale

[3:31:24] Voice 6: communicated to the rpc um quit like and and my my reason for and this is sort of i think what i

[3:31:33] Voice 6: was trying to get at in in that like um i have wanted this communicated directly to us uh before

[3:31:41] Voice 6: we get into communicating it to the public so that we can help like flag some moments where

[3:31:49] Voice 6: where there might be like road bumps because we we have an advantage in that we live on the

[3:31:54] Voice 6: islands and we know the kinds of questions that are likely to be asked and and trust the chair

[3:31:59] Voice 6: boland is quite correct in that a lot of people are going to immediately go to the map and look

[3:32:03] Voice 6: at their thing and have all sorts of questions about whatever else that's unavoidable that's

[3:32:06] Voice 6: going to happen and that's good like that's fine that's all right um that's not what the tool is

[3:32:10] Voice 6: for though um it's not for the public it's for us um and and what i want to have just really laid

[3:32:18] Voice 6: out sort of clearly for the RPC is that we get this methodology communicated to us. And I think

[3:32:25] Voice 6: before we get into drafting an external communication about how the development of this

[3:32:30] Voice 6: tool and how it is going to be used, we get into understanding it for ourselves, because that's a

[3:32:37] Voice 6: thing I think that I currently don't feel like, and I've been watching closely, and I'm very

[3:32:41] Voice 6: very invested in the development of this tool. I want it to succeed. And I can't help that

[3:32:49] Voice 6: if I don't understand it. And I don't have that methodology communicated to us. So I think this

[3:32:54] Voice 6: might be slightly premature, or at least this could happen in tandem with that. But I think

[3:32:59] Voice 6: part of that ought to be a direct communication for us. And then, I mean, there's a meeting,

[3:33:04] Voice 6: there's totally a day in which we have a meeting where we get that sort of orientation for

[3:33:08] Voice 6: ourselves as the RPC. And then we talk about, okay, well, how do we tell, how do we tell what

[3:33:12] Voice 6: we just heard to the public in a way that works? Like that's the way to do this. But until I

[3:33:17] Voice 6: understand it, I don't want to get into evaluating options for communicating it because I don't know

[3:33:24] Voice 6: what we're communicating yet.

[3:33:26] Voice 10: So with that, with what you've said, Sam, do you want to amend this

[3:33:32] Voice 10: or not?

[3:33:34] Voice 6: I don't necessarily want to amend it. I think, and I know obviously, and I, again,

[3:33:38] Voice 6: Again, I feel like I've kicked the hornet's nest

[3:33:39] Voice 6: and I apologize to the RPC and to staff

[3:33:42] Voice 6: for drawing this out.

[3:33:46] Voice 6: But it's important to me that we do this well.

[3:33:49] Voice 6: And I think I'd like to just quickly hear

[3:33:52] Voice 6: from those who've got their hands up

[3:33:53] Voice 6: and let's just sort of make sure

[3:33:55] Voice 6: we've got a clear direction and then let's-

[3:33:57] Voice 10: Okay, fair enough.

[3:33:58] Voice 10: Okay, Trustee Patrick?

[3:34:03] Trustee Patrick: Well, I think as I understand Trustee Elliott's motion

[3:34:07] Trustee Patrick: and the purpose that this is getting at

[3:34:09] Trustee Patrick: That is, when a map is produced, this is what the information is that helps to go with it to avoid what did happen on Gabriel Island.

[3:34:18] Trustee Patrick: And as the chair of Gabriel, I know it well.

[3:34:22] Trustee Patrick: What it doesn't do is build the confidence in the system.

[3:34:26] Trustee Patrick: And that was what Salt Spring was getting at by their terms of reference of the OCP land use bylaw project to say the community needs to be brought along on this process of developing the tool.

[3:34:37] Trustee Patrick: If it's going to be used to make decisions on Salt Spring so that the layers are developed, you know, in transparently and the public gets to weigh in as well to understand what information, what layers were brought to the table, why were they brought, how are they going to be used, and then the different weightings that go between it.

[3:34:56] Trustee Patrick: And that's to build, like I said, the confidence in the tool. And I don't know if that's more toward what Trustee Borthwick is trying to, is not trying to, but is saying. So this deals with a piece of it. And then there's more about confidence and transparency.

[3:35:16] Trustee Patrick: transparency.

[3:35:19] Voice 10: Okay. William, do you want to speak? And let's try and keep it crisp because

[3:35:27] Voice 10: we're going to go back to Trustee Ellis and then we'll call the vote perhaps. Yeah. Great. Thank

[3:35:33] Voice 5: you, Chair, for the opportunity. Trustee Patrick said it perfectly in her statement there saying

[3:35:41] Voice 5: what layers we're bringing forward, why we're bringing them forward and what weighting we're

[3:35:46] Voice 5: given to them that that is that's the project i i think that there should be a a real solid

[3:35:54] Voice 5: understanding this wheat data collection and all that we didn't make that for this project

[3:35:58] Voice 5: right this is data that we are importing and is that data that we're bringing in like say

[3:36:05] Voice 5: saltwater intrusion risk of aquifers is that a value that should be included

[3:36:09] Voice 5: And so what like what what I really wanted, it was this what Trustee Borthwick is actually coming at, like I wanted a robust discussion on value and and basing that value on the spatial layers that we have.

[3:36:24] Voice 5: Here's the list of 20 layers. What values line up with those layers? How confident are you in those layers? Let's bring those forward.

[3:36:33] Voice 5: a specialist will assign a suitability weighting for housing and now let's give those a weighting

[3:36:40] Voice 5: and run the tool the tool is really easy it's embedded into the esri arc pro it's it's it's

[3:36:45] Voice 5: not a methodology that we made up to run it but i i believe it's that discussion right that that is

[3:36:51] Voice 5: is of is of most importance and and i think like not to be adjacent to this whole thing but going

[3:36:58] Voice 5: Going from the suitable land analysis for housing, which were the tool is going to the land information screening tool makes this way different because there shouldn't have been red on that first map.

[3:37:11] Voice 5: There should have only been green. These green areas are suitable for housing. That's what the layers and the weighting and everything was directed towards.

[3:37:21] Voice 5: this wasn't for conservation planning for the ITC because those those layers would have been

[3:37:26] Voice 5: weighted way differently and different layers would have brought in and this was a housing

[3:37:30] Voice 5: strategy thing and I lamented on having red there and I and I and I was the one that said we

[3:37:36] Voice 5: shouldn't do this we should just we should have this raw data that has green to red and then

[3:37:41] Voice 5: look at those areas target those areas like we did with the groundwater recharge mapping project

[3:37:46] Voice 5: project here's the critical areas or here's the areas of high suitability and that's actually what

[3:37:51] Voice 5: we did for Maine and and I think that that that's where the communication is I I think broke down

[3:37:57] Voice 5: on on what the tool is being used for but now that we have list land information screening tool we

[3:38:02] Voice 5: have to implicitly say that we're screening this land for housing and I think that that's really

[3:38:08] Voice 5: important to to communicate and so I yeah I agree with Trustee forthwick on on that for sure so thank

[3:38:14] Voice 10: Thank you.

[3:38:17] Voice 10: I, just to interject something quickly,

[3:38:20] Voice 10: I think the suitable thing shouldn't come into it.

[3:38:24] Voice 10: I think initially you should present data, data layers,

[3:38:27] Voice 10: and everybody looks at it together.

[3:38:29] Voice 10: The minute you say suitable, something has happened behind the screens

[3:38:33] Voice 10: and you're imposing a constraint.

[3:38:35] Voice 10: So I think step one would be here's all the information we have.

[3:38:40] Voice 10: But Toby, go ahead.

[3:38:42] Voice 10: head and then Stefan we're going to have to round this off unless you're going to wave a magic wand

[3:38:48] Voice 10: and fix all of this I'm going to cut the conversation off with Toby and move to this motion

[3:38:56] Voice 14: well I don't think the motion is is ready chair we're hearing a lot of good discussion about

[3:39:05] Voice 14: what needs what information needs to be brought forward I don't think it's to the RPC to your

[3:39:11] Voice 14: your point, Sam, it's that trustees need to understand and have that conversation

[3:39:15] Voice 14: about the values, as Trustee Patrick said, in front of the community transparently. So maybe

[3:39:23] Voice 14: this is more RPC needs to direct or ask staff to come up with a process of how the land screening

[3:39:32] Voice 14: tool is to be um pre like discussed the values and the weighting um sort of um like that that

[3:39:48] Voice 14: formula i guess then staff goes away and you know executes brings it back and then that narration

[3:39:54] Voice 14: about what does it all mean and how do those layers how are those layers interpreted through

[3:40:00] Voice 14: this output. That's what I was trying to get at as well and thank you Trustee Borthwick for pointing

[3:40:05] Voice 14: that out. I think it's RPC's job to help improve the planning processes for LTCs. It's not important

[3:40:13] Voice 14: for us to understand what's going into this tool. It's important for us to make sure that this tool

[3:40:19] Voice 14: is used appropriately. So I welcome any suggestions on this. I think we need to add more about

[3:40:25] Voice 14: the process of the development or the like what's being requested of this tool so if anybody's got

[3:40:35] Voice 14: any questions or suggestions please jump in there i don't think we should rush this it's an important

[3:40:40] Voice 14: point yeah

[3:40:44] Voice 10: stephan go

[3:40:46] Voice 2: thank you in the chat i put down i put a connection to uh again the housing

[3:40:51] Voice 2: options toolkit it's tool 1.2 it's the model LDC major housing project timeline and yes it's a

[3:41:00] Voice 2: simplified version but it takes you through various phases of a project it was as per the

[3:41:05] Voice 2: report presented to you updated to consider the this tool and but it's been summarized

[3:41:14] Voice 2: it didn't explicitly name it because again this is just a mapping tool but you'll see if you follow

[3:41:21] Voice 2: of that that the um the consideration of mapping and bringing it to ltcs you know discussion in

[3:41:29] Voice 2: phase three the analysis data gathering research drafting of discussion papers special uh working

[3:41:34] Voice 2: groups preparation analysis of data mapping and ltc review that's phase three and then it

[3:41:41] Voice 2: then revises the work based on based on the engagement with the community

[3:41:46] Voice 2: elected officials and so forth my whole point is to say the project charter and the timelines have

[3:41:52] Voice 2: been amended to include consideration of mapping and that now that we have this tool this sort of

[3:41:59] Voice 2: fits into there and that so the de facto method now that we have the methodology that is this

[3:42:05] Voice 2: that will become the standard way that staff will present to LTCs the methodology so the RPC can go

[3:42:13] Voice 2: ahead and ask for that work and that's fine we can do that work but and that's happening organically

[3:42:18] Voice 2: as as we speak and with so I just want to be sure that you understand that the idea that we have to

[3:42:26] Voice 2: get in front of this is it's kind of we have the methodology done we have changed the process to

[3:42:31] Voice 2: make sure that the methodology comes before the LTC so part of that work I'm hearing worries about

[3:42:36] Voice 2: is is in place doesn't take away from you know the the errors of piloting it the way we have it

[3:42:43] Voice 2: both on Denman and I guess Capriola but I just want to share that we're moving forward with that

[3:42:47] Voice 2: thank you

[3:42:53] Voice 10: yeah I if I look at this I actually think I suppose what I'm asking here is in that

[3:43:03] Voice 10: motion request staff to provide options do we need to say to return to the RPC

[3:43:11] Voice 10: see with options and recommendations and because i hear that you know there's a sense that people

[3:43:19] Voice 10: want to really dig into it further i like the fact that in this um motion it talks about maps

[3:43:27] Voice 10: and models because i really believe that it's the step from maps to models that's the issue here

[3:43:34] Voice 10: because you know step one in this process is gather all the information and put them on a

[3:43:39] Voice 10: series of maps and the tool allows that but moving to um insert some sort of values rules weightings

[3:43:50] Voice 10: that is the issue where you know the wheels could come off the bus because you could present a

[3:43:57] Voice 10: result and have people confounded and not really get that it started with just a whole bunch of

[3:44:05] Voice 10: widely available information. And the first step is really to enable really, really rigorous

[3:44:12] Voice 10: discussion before you move to a model or any kind of suggested proposal. So I like the fact that it

[3:44:22] Voice 10: says maps or models. So I actually would put into this amendment, into this motion, that staff to

[3:44:33] Voice 10: return to RPC with options and recommendations. Anybody want to comment on that Toby?

[3:44:43] Voice 14: Yeah I think it's RPC's job to support the planning functions of LTC so yeah that was my

[3:44:51] Voice 14: intent to bring it back to RPC so we can go yes this would work you know with our trustee hat on

[3:45:02] Voice 10: Is that understood, Stefan, that it would come back to RPC, or do you need that explicitly

[3:45:07] Voice 10: in there?

[3:45:08] Voice 2: No, the RPC makes a resolution for staff to provide something.

[3:45:12] Voice 2: It's implied that it comes provide to RPC.

[3:45:16] Voice 10: Okay, fair enough.

[3:45:17] Voice 10: Well, I am pretty happy with this motion then.

[3:45:22] Voice 10: Anybody else want to say anything about it?

[3:45:25] Voice 10: it has been moved and does somebody want to second it so sam you're going to second it

[3:45:37] Voice 10: i think this has been one of an incredibly extensive discussion so i think i won't all

[3:45:44] Voice 10: open it up for further discussion i'm just going to call the vote um all those in favor raise your

[3:45:52] Voice 10: hands so i think uh okay lower your hands and those uh against please raise your hands

[3:46:13] Voice 10: nope so that carries thank you okay thank

[3:46:21] Voice 5: you that's

[3:46:24] Voice 10: fine i'm glad we had that discussion

[3:46:25] Voice 10: but it is rather it was uh it was uh it's time to move on and trustee elliott you wanted to

[3:46:33] Voice 10: say something chair

[3:46:34] Voice 14: i had another motion related to the freshwater sustainability project but yeah

[3:46:39] Voice 14: forward could we return to that before william goes yeah

[3:46:43] Voice 10: let's do that because we can hear you

[3:46:45] Voice 10: clearly so uh sherry do you want to put the first of the two motions up please it's the one we we uh

[3:46:53] Voice 10: left the fresh water area to do the housing and we'll just go back quickly for this motion

[3:46:59] Voice 10: yes

[3:47:00] Voice 12: thank you here it is make

[3:47:02] Voice 12: it number two

[3:47:03] Voice 10: let me just give everybody a moment to read this

[3:47:10] Voice 14: that's a bit worrying it could be tightened up for sure okay

[3:47:26] Voice 10: anybody want to uh open the

[3:47:29] Voice 10: discussion on this so in a way actually toby what you're asking for this is like a mini

[3:47:51] Voice 10: communications plan for the freshwater strategy isn't it would you say could you say that again

[3:48:02] Voice 10: I'm just thinking that really

[3:48:04] Voice 13: what you're asking for

[3:48:10] Voice 10: is in some ways it's like a little mini

[3:48:12] Voice 10: communications plan for the strategy and the specific elements that could be useful to

[3:48:19] Voice 10: applicants, LTCs, etc. Toby?

[3:48:33] Voice 14: Apologies, can you hear me now? Yep. Okay, yeah, it's kind of a process

[3:48:39] Voice 14: process flow, I think, is what I was looking for. So it's to, like, how do the different elements?

[3:48:54] Voice 14: Yeah, I don't really know how to describe it. I've lost the track of it. We need to

[3:49:01] Voice 14: figure out

[3:49:02] Voice 14: the process. And I think staff know better than we do how LTCs can, to guide their decision making,

[3:49:11] Voice 14: thing if you know what I mean that's it so

[3:49:15] Voice 10: William go ahead yeah

[3:49:18] Voice 5: thank you chair and thank you

[3:49:19] Voice 5: trustee Elliot for articulating this I think if I were to create a motion to define an implementation

[3:49:27] Voice 5: plan this would be it and that's why I'm kind of like I can I can kind of understand how to deliver

[3:49:35] Voice 5: for this um in a way of of basically backing out the successful outcomes we've had with the

[3:49:44] Voice 5: freshwater footprint development permit area for groundwater recharge protection and proof of water

[3:49:49] Voice 5: and and show how that came together and just identify the ltcs that don't have that

[3:49:54] Voice 5: um that's possible um i think a lot of this is read in strategy as well and perhaps my briefing

[3:50:03] Voice 5: So as a template, I'm not sure like I could definitely template or at least provide specific insight on how an LTC can get to a development permit area because we've done that and highlight all of the work that needs to go into that.

[3:50:20] Voice 5: that. But other than that, like, this reads like an implementation plan. And, and, and if you move

[3:50:31] Voice 5: this resolution now, this is why I asked earlier about how much the RPC wants to be involved in

[3:50:37] Voice 5: the freshwater sustainability strategy review, because this is this would be kind of a parallel

[3:50:44] Voice 5: process with the review and kind of then putting a strong foot forward on the review or

[3:50:50] Voice 5: are in front of the review on this so that's why I'm kind of confused on that um yeah

[3:50:55] Voice 10: yeah um thank

[3:50:57] Voice 10: you I'd just like to um say I actually think that this is perhaps you could extract this by

[3:51:06] Voice 10: synthesizing the report in a different way and you spoke to instances where people had asked you for

[3:51:13] Voice 10: information that they used in particular circumstances so I think you probably have

[3:51:18] Voice 10: the knowledge to do at least a draft of this because you have practical examples where you

[3:51:27] Voice 10: know products that you have that have been created have been requested of you and used so i mean my

[3:51:36] Voice 10: take on this would be to ask you to make a version one for the next meeting even if it's only you

[3:51:43] Voice 10: know here's some examples is this exactly what we're talking about um so that would be my idea

[3:51:50] Voice 10: around this but okay over to you toby yeah

[3:51:56] Voice 14: thank you you've helped clarify um the problem with this

[3:51:59] Voice 14: proposed resolution i didn't intend to direct staff to develop a template for ltc i think

[3:52:06] Voice 14: you're right that's that's that would be the implementation plan it's come back to bring this

[3:52:11] Voice 14: back to the rpc so that we can have that conversation about how how to prepare the

[3:52:19] Voice 14: incoming trustees to learn about how the freshwater work can inform their projects

[3:52:30] Voice 14: and sort of where we're at so i just wanted to have more information come back to the next rpc

[3:52:37] Voice 14: meeting when we discuss we discussed the um the current briefing or the briefing agenda does that

[3:52:45] Voice 14: make sense uh

[3:52:45] Voice 5: yeah yeah it does um through the chair i think if we frame this more around the

[3:52:51] Voice 5: incoming business case i think that would be much more helpful because

[3:52:56] Voice 5: the i it's it's my understanding that the or at least my hopes that the outcome of the

[3:53:04] Voice 5: the strategy review is to guide some type

[3:53:08] Voice 5: of implementation plan.

[3:53:11] Voice 5: And I think that's what you just kind of mentioned,

[3:53:15] Voice 5: like how are we gonna hand this off to the next term?

[3:53:17] Voice 5: And I believe that's generally

[3:53:21] Voice 5: what the review's going to do.

[3:53:25] Voice 5: So that could be part of it.

[3:53:26] Voice 5: And just one friendly amendment,

[3:53:28] Voice 5: we should put Freshwater Sustainability Strategy

[3:53:30] Voice 5: called by name because Freshwater Strategy

[3:53:32] Voice 5: is it's not the full term and that's my other comment

[3:53:35] Voice 10: thank you okay so i have a proposal if

[3:53:39] Voice 10: i read this it is basically we've had a report which is top down everything to do with figuring

[3:53:45] Voice 10: out water but the end point is that it should be of use in terms of land use planning so it's almost

[3:53:55] Voice 10: i take all that information turn it on its head start with land use planning requirements where

[3:54:00] Voice 10: Where do the components we have developed help those land use planning activities?

[3:54:09] Voice 10: And I think you have examples. You spoke to that, William.

[3:54:13] Voice 10: So I see that it shouldn't be for the local trust committees.

[3:54:17] Voice 10: It's quite simple. Well, of course, from my perspective, it's quite simple.

[3:54:21] Voice 10: But it's to develop a template of the different components of the freshwater sustainability strategy and their links to specific land use planning requirements.

[3:54:41] Voice 10: And we could stop there.

[3:54:43] Voice 10: I

[3:54:43] Voice 5: agree with you, Chair.

[3:54:45] Voice 10: And then the next step would be, say, OK, how do we communicate?

[3:54:50] Voice 10: how do we everything but it's actually I think step one is the land use planning activities and

[3:54:58] Voice 10: how do the components support those and very specifics specifically you've spoken to examples

[3:55:06] Voice 10: would that work uh

[3:55:09] Voice 5: yeah through the chair that's great um I think if yeah if you um for lack of

[3:55:14] Voice 5: better term cannibalize that last part um because

[3:55:16] Voice 10: I think that that's that's implementation but

[3:55:19] Voice 5: But, but I, I think that by me going through this process of, of generating the briefing

[3:55:26] Voice 5: for, for this meeting, and again, like I like the RPC to, you know, have a better chance

[3:55:31] Voice 5: to absorb it.

[3:55:33] Voice 5: I, I, I tried to, to highlight what you just suggested to, to, to bring this and, but,

[3:55:41] Voice 5: but it was shrouded by everything that we've done in the last 10 years in Freshwater.

[3:55:45] Voice 4: So

[3:55:45] Voice 5: it was a lot.

[3:55:45] Voice 5: but i i i think that it's it's a good next step from the briefing for sure to to identify um land

[3:55:54] Voice 5: use planning outcomes that this what we have accomplished and maybe what we haven't like

[3:55:57] Voice 5: stormwater management planning it's totally a black box right now

[3:56:01] Voice 5: and and so i think that's a

[3:56:02] Voice 5: i i can yeah i think that's a good idea i can okay

[3:56:05] Voice 10: it makes it kind of real and turns it from

[3:56:10] Voice 10: a whole bunch of you know um you know technical information into here's where the rubber meets

[3:56:17] Voice 10: the road basically this is how it

[3:56:19] Voice 10: can help so toby would you be happy with those kind of edits

[3:56:24] Voice 10: to your motion oh

[3:56:26] Voice 14: yeah i think this has been a good very good uh discussion so let's change the

[3:56:31] Voice 14: wording to

[3:56:32] Voice 14: fresh water sustainability strategy

[3:56:35] Voice 14: and

[3:56:37] Voice 14: it's links to

[3:56:38] Voice 14: land use planning

[3:56:41] Voice 14: products, requirements

[3:56:43] Voice 14: like word it however it makes

[3:56:45] Voice 14: sense. I think just

[3:56:46] Voice 14: land use planning

[3:56:47] Voice 10: activities. How about that?

[3:56:49] Voice 5: Or just land use

[3:56:51] Voice 5: planning full stop. Yeah, because

[3:56:52] Voice 5: it

[3:56:53] Voice 10: can go

[3:56:53] Voice 5: to policy, right?

[3:56:55] Voice 10: And then do we need

[3:56:56] Voice 10: for local trust committees?

[3:56:58] Voice 10: no

[3:56:59] Voice 14: it's coming back to

[3:57:00] Voice 10: rpc yeah a template uh into a template of a summary of the different

[3:57:08] Voice 10: components of the freshwater sustainability strategy and their links to specific land use

[3:57:15] Voice 10: planning chair

[3:57:16] Voice 5: chair if i may i mean if you say the rpc requests staff to provide a summary of

[3:57:23] Voice 5: the different components and their links to land use planning that's kind of because

[3:57:26] Voice 10: i don't know

[3:57:26] Voice 10: know what the template

[3:57:27] Voice 5: is right now right because i think that'd be more implementation as well

[3:57:30] Voice 5: okay

[3:57:31] Voice 12: fair enough yeah great

[3:57:32] Voice 5: thanks

[3:57:33] Voice 12: so what's the final wording yeah william go

[3:57:38] Voice 10: and yeah sure

[3:57:39] Voice 5: yeah i'm a trustee now well maybe in november no i'm just kidding uh so the um the rpc requests

[3:57:47] Voice 5: staff to provide a summary of the different components so yeah request staff and then

[3:57:56] Voice 5: And then go all the

[3:57:57] Voice 5: way to summary, and then just put, yeah, provide, and then delete a template of local LTC.

[3:58:04] Voice 5: Yeah, delete.

[3:58:06] Voice 3: Woohoo!

[3:58:07] Voice 5: Summary, yeah.

[3:58:08] Voice 5: And then, yeah, perfect.

[3:58:11] Voice 5: You can maybe say of the components of the strategy.

[3:58:14] Voice 5: We don't really need different.

[3:58:17] Voice 12: The components of the strategy?

[3:58:19] Voice 5: Yeah, yeah.

[3:58:21] Voice 5: That's great, because then that can also…

[3:58:24] Voice 10: Do you need sustainability strategy?

[3:58:26] Voice 10: Yes, please.

[3:58:26] Voice 5: Do you want that?

[3:58:27] Voice 10: Yeah.

[3:58:27] Voice 10: Yeah. Freshwater sustainability. Thanks, Sharon.

[3:58:33] Voice 5: Yeah, this is great, Sharon, not to speak out of turn,

[3:58:36] Voice 5: but this also like the components of the freshwater strategy are just beyond

[3:58:40] Voice 5: data and science, right?

[3:58:41] Voice 5: Like when you read the strategy does speak

[3:58:43] Voice 5: to coordination and first nation

[3:58:45] Voice 5: involvement. And so how that links back to land use planning is.

[3:58:50] Voice 10: Okay. And then don't, don't turn, don't try and boil the ocean. Okay.

[3:58:56] Voice 10: And second, already did that.

[3:58:59] Voice 10: But also, you know, I think the stormwater, et cetera, you've mentioned some.

[3:59:05] Voice 10: So certainly putting in those that have gaps, that would be help people understand potential scope.

[3:59:14] Voice 10: But keep it sort of, well, I think keep it really practical because that's what we're looking for,

[3:59:23] Voice 10: is to build those links between this knowledge we've gathered and components and the practical

[3:59:30] Voice 10: application of those yeah

[3:59:32] Voice 5: sure thanks chair i think like i think you're right um i gave you

[3:59:35] Voice 5: everything in this briefing really um i don't there's not much more narrative beyond that

[3:59:40] Voice 5: and so yeah like this this next um i guess it'd be a briefing might even be

[3:59:45] Voice 5: a staff report i'm not

[3:59:45] Voice 5: sure um how it would come back to you um what will be quite practical like it's going to identify

[3:59:51] Voice 5: what LTCs would do and how the freshwater

[3:59:56] Voice 5: strategy would support that.

[3:59:58] Voice 10: Keep it as a surprise.

[4:00:00] Voice 10: William okay okay

[4:00:01] Voice 5: everybody

[4:00:03] Voice 10: and thank you Toby will you read the motion and move it be pleased

[4:00:10] Voice 14: to I move that the regional planning committee request staff to provide a summary of the

[4:00:14] Voice 14: components of the freshwater sustainability strategy and their links to specific actually

[4:00:20] Voice 14: remove specific just their links to land use planning yeah

[4:00:27] Voice 10: thank you okay um Sam I see you're

[4:00:32] Voice 10: seconding the motion yep seconded by trust street board flick and um okay i call the motion all

[4:00:42] Voice 10: those in favor raise your hands uh and uh lower my hand those uh against so that carries great

[4:01:12] Voice 10: teamwork everyone

[4:01:13] Voice 14: thank you thank you thank you that was very

[4:01:15] Voice 14: helpful thank

[4:01:16] Voice 10: you thanks toby you're

[4:01:17] Voice 10: always good at coming up with the words at short notice thank you very much um okay right so i need

[4:01:26] Voice 10: to um what time is it okay we have 55 minutes to go and we need to do does anybody want to break

[4:01:34] Voice 10: or do you want to power on into uh bylaw okay we want to power on um so next item on the agenda

[4:01:47] Voice 10: agenda is um the regional planning committee so bylaw compliance and enforcement review project

[4:01:55] Voice 10: i'm afraid back to you stephan and i didn't ask you are you still feeling poorly or have

[4:02:01] Voice 10: you perked up with the excitement of the discussion i'm

[4:02:05] Voice 2: surviving on ginger tea right now

[4:02:10] Voice 10: okay good um right you want to do an intro to this section and by the way i i just thought

[4:02:16] Voice 10: it was just great that we have reached this stage with this material indeed go

[4:02:23] Voice 10: ahead thank you chair

[4:02:24] Voice 2: so uh what you have before you is uh sort of hopefully the final revisions as requested by

[4:02:30] Voice 2: yourselves in trust council to the bio compliance enforcement policy and of course the associated

[4:02:39] Voice 2: manual you also have before you a a draft implementation plan it's quite brief and

[4:02:45] Voice 2: simple but um seemed easiest that way especially since uh it's a reiterated process of reporting

[4:02:51] Voice 2: and and and going back every six months so uh that's kind of the punchline of all that

[4:02:57] Voice 2: so what's what's new and different uh let me check my notes what i really want to capture with you

[4:03:03] Voice 2: um yeah so in the policy manual has oh should i share the screen or are you okay me doing this

[4:03:09] Voice 2: verbally

[4:03:09] Voice 10: just just share the screen I think it's always helpful yeah

[4:03:13] Voice 2: okay I will hold on I have to

[4:03:16] Voice 2: move you over there and forgive me for a moment there I just got to get to

[4:03:23] Voice 4: the right page then

[4:03:24] Voice 2: I'm so invested in listening to others okay file compliance

[4:03:36] Voice 4: and start the one okay I

[4:03:43] Voice 2: believe you're seeing if I'm can you see me scrolling through the document

[4:03:48] Voice 2: it's going up and down yeah okay yeah sorry uh because I've got two going one I've marked up

[4:03:55] Voice 2: all the heck and one for you so okay thank you so yeah I'll make a little bit bigger for you

[4:04:02] Voice 2: so the recommendations are to you know endorse and refer the the revisions including the

[4:04:08] Voice 2: implementation plan to trust council hopefully they adopt it and we can move forward to um

[4:04:13] Voice 2: implementation so you've seen this many times so I won't give you the background story

[4:04:19] Voice 2: where I'd like to start beginning the presentation at least giving a summary of

[4:04:23] Voice 2: what has changed according to Trust Council and the Regional Planning Committee's feedback

[4:04:28] Voice 2: and there's been changes in the policy itself actually I'll just jump right to the policy if

[4:04:34] Voice 2: that's okay just in the interest of whoops get that over there so what has changed in the policy

[4:04:42] Voice 2: there was some discussion with your delegated your delegate this morning and so trustees

[4:04:48] Voice 2: responded to that. I'll remind that you've discussed things about the ombudsperson's

[4:04:54] Voice 2: feedback in May last year, and you forwarded to Trust Council, and Trust Council considered those

[4:05:00] Voice 2: issues that were brought up earlier this morning in September. So they endorsed the direction and

[4:05:05] Voice 2: went forth. So just a reminder of that. And so there's discussion about a little bit of

[4:05:12] Voice 2: proactiveness and a little bit of discussion about definitions. So where are we there? So

[4:05:21] Voice 2: there's reference in there to the standards of conduct, two sentences for staff performance.

[4:05:28] Voice 2: Sorry, I'm just going to fly around in here, right here. So in terms of investigating the approach

[4:05:34] Voice 2: to staff, instead of the wording, you know, about the principles of accountability and partiality,

[4:05:40] Voice 2: et cetera. It was hard to evaluate that. So we tighten it right up. And this was actually

[4:05:45] Voice 2: the recommendation of the CAO to put the BC public service standards of conduct. It suddenly

[4:05:51] Voice 2: becomes clear, easy, measurable, doable. So grateful for that magical tweak that he added

[4:05:58] Voice 2: there. We added section 616. This was at the behest, I believe, of the bylaw enforcement

[4:06:04] Voice 2: team. So they've been discussing it back and forth and we had a good round table with them.

[4:06:09] Voice 2: and this is going to mediate its solutions and so the bylaw officer team really felt like there's

[4:06:15] Voice 2: many times when uh if you mediate a solution between the applicant or pardon me the complainant

[4:06:22] Voice 2: and the receiver of the complaint you can get them together in the same room and they resolve

[4:06:26] Voice 2: the complaint um then they can close the file except for of course if there's issues about

[4:06:31] Voice 2: health safety or the environment and um and so they really felt that that's strongly what happens

[4:06:37] Voice 2: or is desired to happen in the field.

[4:06:39] Voice 2: So we put that in there for your consideration.

[4:06:41] Voice 2: That's probably the newest thing there.

[4:06:44] Voice 2: What else have we got there to talk about?

[4:06:46] Voice 2: I

[4:06:47] Voice 10: would wish that that could happen all the time.

[4:06:50] Voice 10: So it's a good initiative, yeah.

[4:06:53] Voice 2: I think so.

[4:06:54] Voice 2: It's really trying to resolve most issues we have are minor,

[4:06:58] Voice 2: not all of them by any means.

[4:06:59] Voice 2: And a resolution can be mediated if there's two willing parties.

[4:07:03] Voice 2: So hopefully that helps facilitate that.

[4:07:06] Voice 2: certainly the bylaw officers themselves have felt that they've been in that situation several times

[4:07:10] Voice 2: and they wish they had that authority. So that's great. There's also a fair bit of a discussion

[4:07:16] Voice 2: about regarding health and safety from Trust Council. They asked us to go back and tweak,

[4:07:23] Voice 2: and there's several tweaks throughout there. I don't want to show them all to you,

[4:07:27] Voice 2: but we went back and looked at all the instances in the draft and they're slightly different uses

[4:07:33] Voice 2: of the wording regarding health and safety.

[4:07:37] Voice 2: So went back with the principle using to be consistent wording and appropriate approaches,

[4:07:41] Voice 2: objective standards, all based on legal and policy principles, which were derived from

[4:07:46] Voice 2: legislation and case law.

[4:07:47] Voice 2: So the summary of that is that we defined immediate threat versus significant risk.

[4:07:57] Voice 2: Those are the two questions.

[4:07:58] Voice 2: What's immediate threat and what's a significant risk?

[4:08:01] Voice 2: when to apply those standards. So we've defined those standards as per the staff report explains

[4:08:07] Voice 2: what it is and the staff we always use the legislative approach and we've applied them

[4:08:13] Voice 2: a little bit tweaking with the defined immediate or sort of proactive enforcement so maybe I can

[4:08:20] Voice 2: find that proactive enforcement site inspections okay well there's a bunch of different examples

[4:08:36] Voice 2: in here, but I want to find proactive first.

[4:08:40] Voice 10: There you

[4:08:42] Voice 2: go. Yep, right there.

[4:08:43] Voice 2: So in terms of proactivity, the reasonable grounds

[4:08:48] Voice 2: is a critical term. That's a legal term

[4:08:52] Voice 2: and it's defined in your report. And it's to

[4:08:56] Voice 2: a significant risk and not an immediate risk.

[4:09:00] Voice 2: So these are proactive things that staff can go

[4:09:04] Voice 2: forward and again it's really important to take into context what reasonable means and what

[4:09:09] Voice 2: significant means and that's defined in the bylaw. And then immediate threats may lead to a more

[4:09:16] Voice 2: assertive approach in terms of issuing fines. So if someone's doing something there's an immediate

[4:09:20] Voice 2: threat staff may and I find it here may issue a notice if voluntary compliance is not forthcoming

[4:09:29] Voice 2: within a reasonable time and the reasonable grounds to believe that there's an immediate

[4:09:34] Voice 2: threat. So if that makes sense, right, that there's an immediate threat to the environment

[4:09:39] Voice 2: instead of, you know, and we're not getting volunteering compliance right away,

[4:09:43] Voice 2: then we can move a little bit more assertively through the process to a fine. And of course,

[4:09:48] Voice 2: we could elevate that as well. So, and then the last one is defining the entry without notice.

[4:09:56] Voice 2: um i think that's actually what section i should have written down my sections

[4:10:03] Voice 2: entry without notice investigation proactive

[4:10:09] Voice 2: whoops yeah i didn't capture which one it is i only captured my notes but entry without notice

[4:10:14] Voice 2: is reserved for like we should staff should always be trying to get permission to get and

[4:10:18] Voice 2: you know permission to enter a property and to do so i mean sometimes you know it's some they

[4:10:25] Voice 2: they still have reserved the legal right to enter,

[4:10:27] Voice 2: but the policy recommends that it should be done

[4:10:29] Voice 2: only when there's a known immediate threat.

[4:10:33] Voice 2: So they've taken the most sort of extreme perspective there.

[4:10:42] Voice 2: Yeah.

[4:10:43] Voice 2: It's section five.

[4:10:45] Voice 2: Oh, Warren's here.

[4:10:46] Voice 2: Hey, Warren.

[4:10:47] Voice 2: Sorry, didn't mean to yell that, guys.

[4:10:51] Voice 2: There you go.

[4:10:51] Voice 2: Sorry, Warren.

[4:10:52] Voice 2: I forgot you were hiding there.

[4:10:55] Voice 2: Okay.

[4:10:55] Voice 2: So those are the bulk of the changes in terms of the policy.

[4:10:59] Voice 2: see. But now that we've actually got Warren here, perhaps he would like to speak to them before I

[4:11:02] Voice 2: get into the implementation plan.

[4:11:06] Voice 10: Well, does anybody else want to ask questions or raise any

[4:11:14] Voice 10: issues? Not that I can see. I just have one comment. I like the fact that the edits make it

[4:11:24] Voice 10: more consistent and there's a good explanation for the changes. And I like the fact that entry

[4:11:31] Voice 10: with that notice and has explicitly that proposed timing is consistent with legislation bylaws and

[4:11:40] Voice 10: policies adopted by the local trust committee because indeed saturn adopted 30 days and made

[4:11:46] Voice 10: it explicit in their local bylaw so i i think that's very important and i like that so with

[4:11:54] Voice 10: that over to you warren thank

[4:11:58] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: you chair uh for the most part i don't have any uh significant

[4:12:04] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: comments to expand on what uh stefan has stated uh this is quite comprehensive um it is providing

[4:12:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: as stefan stated more discretion for the bylaw officers especially in trying to mediate solutions

[4:12:24] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: resolutions uh with uh both parties um it has been you know a long discussion about

[4:12:33] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: trying to mediate uh these disputes uh it's difficult because we can't mediate the law

[4:12:42] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: but now if you have policy changes and a you know a policy director from trust council

[4:12:49] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: it gives the bile officers that discretion and the whole document gives bile officers more

[4:12:56] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: discretion and it's something that they have been very appreciative of and asking for some time

[4:13:03] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: it will assist them in doing their jobs it will assist them in getting some files closed

[4:13:10] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: it's a more cooperative approach all around so that's very helpful

[4:13:19] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: so it's more comprehensive and when reviewing the local trust committee policies this document

[4:13:28] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: will be you know reviewed it's the sort of the master superior policy and we'll have to ensure

[4:13:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that the local trust committee policies do not conflict with this policy and so thank

[4:13:43] Voice 10: you

[4:13:44] Voice 10: you. Anybody else want to raise anything? No. So as it stands, and we're now going to move on to

[4:13:55] Voice 10: the implementation plan, we don't have any suggestions, changes, objections to the bylaw

[4:14:03] Voice 10: as it stands right now. Correct? Raise your hand if you don't think that's a reasonable thing to

[4:14:10] Voice 10: to say okay good move on now stephan you want to take a step well congratulations

[4:14:19] Voice 2: rbc i mean

[4:14:21] Voice 2: pat yourself on the back for that one actually

[4:14:23] Voice 14: yeah i just want to say thank you to everyone

[4:14:27] Voice 14: this is the only mission um but i think these latest changes are really good really significant

[4:14:33] Voice 14: and i totally appreciate the work that's going into this so fully support thanks

[4:14:38] Voice 10: yeah i do feel

[4:14:39] Voice 10: feel good about this in my term as a trustee and Aaron isn't here but I think Aaron was the one who

[4:14:47] Voice 10: flew the flag and initiated this and I think it's something that we as trustees and staff

[4:14:54] Voice 10: and the ombudsperson and the community who raised the alarm should feel proud of so thank you

[4:15:03] Voice 10: everyone indeed.

[4:15:06] Voice 2: Thank you chair let's hope trust council feels the same way but I look forward to

[4:15:09] Voice 2: RPC championing this. Okay. So onto the implementation plan. So put together an

[4:15:17] Voice 2: implementation plan. It's sort of phased across communication, training, go live of, well,

[4:15:23] Voice 2: I guess the policy and the bylaw compliance enforcement portal. And of course it involves

[4:15:31] Voice 2: monitoring to ensure successful adaptation. So it's a reiterated process. And I'm just delighted

[4:15:38] Voice 2: to actually present a project that has that in there.

[4:15:40] Voice 2: So personally, very satisfied with that.

[4:15:43] Voice 2: A lot of the work here has been done.

[4:15:45] Voice 2: I've been working with a communication specialist

[4:15:47] Voice 2: that kind of had this ready to go in anticipation

[4:15:50] Voice 2: quite some time ago, October, November.

[4:15:52] Voice 2: So it's just been tweaked and fine-tuned

[4:15:55] Voice 2: over the last couple of months.

[4:15:57] Voice 2: So internal communications,

[4:16:00] Voice 2: really it's bringing all the staff up to speed.

[4:16:03] Voice 2: Warren would know we've been talking internally

[4:16:05] Voice 2: and working with various people.

[4:16:06] Voice 2: we had a professional day at the planning services we'll do another one once this is

[4:16:12] Voice 2: implemented one of the biggest things i've noticed and of course you get you know further

[4:16:17] Voice 2: again to the development is it sort of the director role is seeing how the different rpms

[4:16:22] Voice 2: the regional planning managers interact with bylaw enforcement and how the planners work

[4:16:27] Voice 2: and i see that maturing and didn't really recognize that that it needed to mature in some

[4:16:34] Voice 2: ways so um really appreciate this policy is coming at a good time that us as an entire department are

[4:16:40] Voice 2: maturing so and i think warren's been um the key hog in that in terms of guiding sometimes people

[4:16:47] Voice 2: who are learning and his patience is always remarkable so internal communication has been

[4:16:52] Voice 2: going on staff training real big shout out to the bylaw enforcement team they've all completing

[4:16:57] Voice 2: building a respectful inclusive work uh place training so i really want to uh you know that's

[4:17:03] Voice 2: It's a four-part training module.

[4:17:05] Voice 2: They've all done it.

[4:17:06] Voice 2: So that sort of set the stage for them

[4:17:08] Voice 2: so that they can work forward then on the policy

[4:17:11] Voice 2: and then the other changes coming.

[4:17:12] Voice 2: So a good groundwork.

[4:17:14] Voice 2: And of course, some of them are individually training

[4:17:16] Voice 2: in advanced levels of mediation and things like that.

[4:17:21] Voice 2: But basically, we've got training lined up.

[4:17:23] Voice 2: We just had to reschedule it, I think, as of yesterday

[4:17:26] Voice 2: for this upcoming CityView.

[4:17:28] Voice 2: And of course, we will, again, meet as a team

[4:17:31] Voice 2: to discuss these policies.

[4:17:33] Voice 2: External communications, I have provided an example of some of the early drafts that I put together.

[4:17:41] Voice 2: I recognize that they're not polished.

[4:17:42] Voice 2: I just wanted you to get a sense of what they look like, and they're attached to this briefing.

[4:17:48] Voice 2: I have since been spending more time with the communications specialist in between just putting this agenda out.

[4:17:54] Voice 2: and uh and so we've separated uh trustee speaking notes from public uh um sort of communication

[4:18:04] Voice 2: points so she uh their communication specialist helped me revise those materials so um you might

[4:18:10] Voice 2: want to take some of the attached materials with a grain of salt that's why i actually had draft

[4:18:13] Voice 2: um stamped all over them so that you didn't think that they were they were final i just want you to

[4:18:19] Voice 2: see that we've advanced that's where point is to show you that we're ready to go once trust

[4:18:24] Voice 2: Council says yes to advance the updates to the website, to social media. We've got frequently

[4:18:31] Voice 2: asked questions, which also has been fine-tuned. The tricky thing has been, of course, it was never

[4:18:37] Voice 2: really intended that originally that CityView, or pardon me, we call it CityView, the file

[4:18:43] Voice 2: enforcement portal would be going live at the same time as these policy changes. So trying to wrap

[4:18:51] Voice 2: your head around two projects coming together and communications was was good but i admit i took my

[4:18:57] Voice 2: i i took my own ideas of what that means and called it the bylaw enforcement modernization

[4:19:04] Voice 2: project take that with a grain of salt that was just me trying to find a way to not have to say

[4:19:09] Voice 2: two projects at the same time all the time so i'm not a marketer and i think the communication

[4:19:15] Voice 2: specialist already laughed at me for that one so there you go so um so i just that's just more for

[4:19:22] Voice 2: this work if you like that please let me know we can change the website and change communication

[4:19:27] Voice 2: materials um otherwise we'll find something um perhaps less i don't know modernization has a

[4:19:33] Voice 2: real 90s ring to to it for me but um but probably most important of all the communication materials

[4:19:39] Voice 2: materials oh yeah there's outstanding pardon me is one key thing is of all the things we haven't

[4:19:45] Voice 2: done for communication tools are heard at lost trust council i believe it was trustee lockham

[4:19:50] Voice 2: specifically who said the term wanted cheat sheets and standard site inspection reports

[4:19:57] Voice 2: and we haven't delivered on that yet because you can see all the other things we've been doing

[4:20:02] Voice 2: so that's a concept of that and warren and i have been talking about how do we roll something like

[4:20:08] Voice 2: that out and because each ltc adopts a slightly different enforcement policy um i believe there's

[4:20:17] Voice 2: half a dozen that have adopted their own enforcement policies and there's you know

[4:20:23] Voice 2: differences between the two about where they may or may not uh guide uh bylaw enforcement staff

[4:20:28] Voice 2: i believe gambier is the outlier saying we don't want to talk to you just do your job um so i think

[4:20:36] Voice 2: that's it so they obviously are missing a decision point and so the cheat sheet would be different

[4:20:40] Voice 2: so it's going to have to be an LTC by LTC cheat sheet obviously you'll be able to cut and paste

[4:20:46] Voice 2: a lot of the work but that's outstanding work as is the concept of a standard site inspection

[4:20:53] Voice 2: reports we have a standard report that we bring to LTCs to report by law enforcement so that's

[4:21:00] Voice 2: already standard? What does a standard site inspection report look like? We're exploring

[4:21:06] Voice 2: that through the CityView portal to see if it can produce a standardized report, preferably at a

[4:21:13] Voice 2: click of a button, whereby the application can come to the LTCs and you can discuss. So we're

[4:21:18] Voice 2: exploring that, but because it's the software, it takes a little bit more time and we want to speak

[4:21:23] Voice 2: at the respective LTC levels. So I'm babbling, but because I'm recognizing time. The last thing,

[4:21:29] Voice 2: probably the most important thing in my mind anyways is measuring the effectiveness of this

[4:21:33] Voice 2: policy you'll see in some of the work I submitted I really try to ask the questions before I develop

[4:21:39] Voice 2: the metrics what are we trying to measure and generated some questions so that's in the materials

[4:21:46] Voice 2: as such it's kind of hard to measure the effectiveness of a policy I have some

[4:21:50] Voice 2: metrics that I've sort of put into a spreadsheet and they include you know the how long does it

[4:21:56] Voice 2: take resolution for each, like how long is a file open? At what point was the file closed? Like what

[4:22:03] Voice 2: was the result of it? And I'm really curious about the percentage of voluntary compliance versus

[4:22:08] Voice 2: those that advance beyond that. How many are appealed? How many are reversed? You know,

[4:22:16] Voice 2: basically how much did we get wrong according to either adjudication, the courts, or even

[4:22:21] Voice 2: in some perhaps some other one volume of standards of conduct of complaints basically are we getting

[4:22:28] Voice 2: a lot of complaints about staff behaviors as well as frequency of repeat or vexatious complainants

[4:22:33] Voice 2: you know you all get hit with an extraordinary amount of emails from a very select few

[4:22:42] Voice 2: I would argue that some of those are vexatious or frivolous complaints and are those are they

[4:22:49] Voice 2: they eating up a lot of, well, I know they're eating up a lot of bylaw enforcement time

[4:22:52] Voice 2: and it would be nice to report back on those. If that

[4:22:56] Voice 2: this implementation of this new policy by not accepting

[4:23:01] Voice 2: anything else from these people in regards to those specific repeat customers

[4:23:05] Voice 2: and those specific repeat issues, then perhaps that's going to free up time.

[4:23:09] Voice 2: And of course, the usual metrics about how many people are visiting your website

[4:23:13] Voice 2: as their engagement and the usual staff workload. So those are

[4:23:17] Voice 2: my early tracking metrics.

[4:23:19] Voice 2: I've already got my spreadsheets worked out.

[4:23:20] Voice 2: I've tried to look at industry standards

[4:23:22] Voice 2: about what to compare it to

[4:23:24] Voice 2: because we're starting blank

[4:23:25] Voice 2: with some of these.

[4:23:27] Voice 2: So you'll see that when it comes out

[4:23:28] Voice 2: in more detail

[4:23:29] Voice 2: when we would start reporting

[4:23:30] Voice 2: out to Trust Council.

[4:23:32] Voice 2: I'm hoping for September next year

[4:23:34] Voice 2: or this year, pardon me.

[4:23:35] Voice 2: Yes.

[4:23:36] Voice 2: And then doing it at the same rhythm

[4:23:38] Voice 2: that you get the bylaw investigation reports

[4:23:40] Voice 2: every six months.

[4:23:44] Voice 2: That's my presentation.

[4:23:46] Voice 2: Thank you, Chair.

[4:23:49] Voice 10: Anybody else? I have my hand up, but Trustee Patrick or Chair Patrick, go ahead.

[4:23:54] Trustee Patrick: Oh, boy. Well, if you're looking for buzz names, I think Restoring Public Confidence instead of Modernization.

[4:24:02] Trustee Patrick: But that's why I'm just to me, I really don't think it's important.

[4:24:08] Trustee Patrick: The name of the project, I mean, from my perspective, the one thing I was looking for in the implementation plan,

[4:24:15] Trustee Patrick: and it's probably there, just me missing it,

[4:24:18] Trustee Patrick: is I would have called it external communications,

[4:24:21] Trustee Patrick: but the letters and templates and the tone of those I used to have in my hand,

[4:24:28] Trustee Patrick: and I'm sure it's piled in one of my various piles on my desk,

[4:24:31] Trustee Patrick: a version of a letter that someone had received.

[4:24:36] Trustee Patrick: And I know it was the tone in particular.

[4:24:39] Trustee Patrick: It was almost like you are guilty and was the first letter they received

[4:24:43] Trustee Patrick: rather than, you know, we've had a report or there's been a complaint

[4:24:47] Trustee Patrick: and we want to investigate.

[4:24:49] Trustee Patrick: So I know that was reported as those were all going to be changed,

[4:24:53] Trustee Patrick: but I don't see it in the implementation plan.

[4:24:59] Voice 10: Yeah, I would add to that that I had that as a question

[4:25:02] Voice 10: because someplace along the line we asked that we would see a template

[4:25:07] Voice 10: of either letters or certainly the first letter that went out reviewed.

[4:25:14] Voice 10: reviewed so um yeah i i have noticed that as well i'm

[4:25:20] Voice 2: going to ask war and if you know your

[4:25:22] Voice 2: the current status of the new templates that were uploaded or are to be uploaded into the

[4:25:27] Voice 2: bylaw enforcement portal yeah so

[4:25:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the we've given them basic templates uh but the work

[4:25:39] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: on the final wording on the letters that hasn't been done um i think the main concern

[4:25:46] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: concern for some respondents are the STVR letters. If we've been doing proactive enforcement on

[4:25:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: short-term vacation rentals, yes, that letter essentially says, you're guilty, stop. Because

[4:26:02] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that's the only reason why we opened the file is because we were positive that they were operating

[4:26:08] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: unlawfully. Can

[4:26:10] Voice 10: I interrupt you, Warren? I think what we're asking is the one letter that

[4:26:16] Voice 10: we took issue with it was less okay the the actual status of the complaint the complainant etc

[4:26:23] Voice 10: that's not it was more the tone of the letter um as far as i remember rather than the facts

[4:26:31] Voice 10: surrounding it or the exact status you know somebody could be actually guilty but you could

[4:26:36] Voice 10: communicate it to them in a way that might encourage them to examine their conscience

[4:26:41] Voice 10: rather than piss them off and make them, you know, dig their heels in.

[4:26:46] Voice 10: Yeah, that was the issue.

[4:26:48] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Yes, it's the short-term vacation rental enforcement letter

[4:26:53] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: announcing proactive enforcement.

[4:26:56] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And yes, we can review all of those letters and redo them,

[4:27:01] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: or even just not use a separate letter for the short-term vacation rentals

[4:27:06] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: when it comes to proactive enforcement.

[4:27:08] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: enforcement um all of that uh would be done once we've got city view ready to go and we've done

[4:27:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: all the templates because in the end they all have to be reviewed because they're not ready to go yet

[4:27:23] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: we need to do go do all the training for city view and get up to speed and how it's going to

[4:27:30] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: operate and how we're going to really use the program and part of that is going to be doing

[4:27:37] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: reviewing the templates, the final templates, and all of the letters.

[4:27:41] Voice 10: Who is going to review those letters?

[4:27:44] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Well, it would be the whole team, including Stefan.

[4:27:47] Voice 10: And I suggest you include the communications person as well,

[4:27:51] Voice 10: my suggestion would be.

[4:27:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Yeah, we can certainly do that, yes.

[4:27:57] Voice 10: Yeah.

[4:27:57] Voice 10: I can see how you may have a letter that would be technically correct,

[4:28:02] Voice 10: but won't necessarily achieve a goal of voluntary compliance.

[4:28:08] Voice 10: Does that make sense?

[4:28:10] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Yes, absolutely. There were two different paths. Here's the

[4:28:15] Voice 10: complaint letter.

[4:28:16] Voice 10: No, it's not

[4:28:16] Voice 10: the paths exactly. I think what we noted in one of them that we saw, it was more the tone. And I don't remember the one that we actually saw. Somebody help me out here.

[4:28:31] Voice 10: No,

[4:28:32] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Chair, but I know the letter you're talking about.

[4:28:35] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: I know the

[4:28:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: concerns, and yes, we can change it.

[4:28:38] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: We don't have to use it.

[4:28:40] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: We can do the most cooperative, nice, sweet letter the trustees want.

[4:28:49] Voice 10: Good.

[4:28:50] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So, yeah, we're aware of that.

[4:28:52] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Has that been done yet?

[4:28:53] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: No.

[4:28:54] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: We have to do that with CityView.

[4:28:57] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: CityView isn't up and running yet.

[4:28:59] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that'll be part of the end process for city view and getting that final

[4:29:03] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: template together. And in the end, it'll be a team effort.

[4:29:10] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: You know,

[4:29:11] Trustee Patrick: my

[4:29:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: other comment about that is that the standard letter that we sent out,

[4:29:19] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: many staff members are shocked about how soft it is, right?

[4:29:25] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: That that's the feedback from staff.

[4:29:27] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: they're like why would you send out this letter it's supposed to be an enforcement letter but

[4:29:33] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: we are supposed to be looking for voluntary compliance and the tone of it is very soft

[4:29:41] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and conciliatory almost and it references

[4:29:44] Voice 10: now mediation but it doesn't have to be the only

[4:29:47] Voice 10: letter it's step one and i think it's important that that is the first approach because some

[4:29:56] Voice 10: Some people may be unaware and it is quite shocking.

[4:30:00] Voice 10: I think, on the other hand, there are some cases where it's blatant and the person knows, but there are cases where people are a bit unaware and a bit naive.

[4:30:10] Voice 10: And I think it's important and it's important in the islands.

[4:30:14] Voice 10: You know, it's it's not, you know, downtown metropolitan anywhere.

[4:30:19] Voice 10: So I think it's a good start. Personally, that's what I think.

[4:30:29] Voice 10: anybody else want to jump in and bail me out here well

[4:30:34] Voice 2: sure if i may uh i think we're hearing you

[4:30:36] Voice 2: clearly um are you and trustee patrick so far you know that first letter and we're conscious that

[4:30:42] Voice 2: for many people that's the first maybe only contact with the islands trust that as you're

[4:30:46] Voice 2: saying the tone is important to ensure respectful communications back and forth and voluntary

[4:30:52] Voice 2: Compliance requires a relationship, and I think we hear clearly that that letter should be, we should be mindful, at least that the cover letter is informative and effective, and it gives them direction on what to do.

[4:31:12] Voice 2: And I also think, though, this project, this program is better prepared than to go online to find information relative to what's going on, such as go see the manual in this circumstance if you want to understand what's happening and so on and so forth.

[4:31:25] Voice 2: So I think we'll take that in consideration for sure when drafting that first letter.

[4:31:30] Voice 2: But I also hear Manager Dingman, who's, if LTC has said, go forth and enforce SDRs, that letter, of course, will be a bit different.

[4:31:40] Voice 2: And I think this group recognizes that.

[4:31:42] Voice 2: that so although it can still be respectful in tone i

[4:31:45] Voice 10: think firm is the word i would use but

[4:31:48] Voice 10: okay uh just you both like yeah and i

[4:31:52] Voice 6: i i appreciate what uh director sir mark was just

[4:31:55] Voice 6: saying and i think um and i understand where you're coming from i think we have a duty obviously to be

[4:32:00] Voice 6: professional um and when it comes to bylaws that are specific or like the enforcement of our bylaws

[4:32:09] Voice 6: as when there is a contravention we also we can we can always afford to be civil we can't afford

[4:32:14] Voice 6: to be toothless um

[4:32:15] Voice 4: and

[4:32:16] Voice 6: i think that's i think that's a significant distinction um and i know

[4:32:20] Voice 6: that there are people who like obviously i am and with with uh trustee campbell who's not here like

[4:32:26] Voice 6: i and one actually i know that david you know trustee graham and i you know there were there

[4:32:32] Voice 6: were there were issues in terms of my law uh on denman and i'm really glad with the work that's

[4:32:38] Voice 6: been done i think this is exactly the changes that that that we need and i really salute the

[4:32:42] Voice 6: the work that the bylaw enforcement department has gone to to to bring this about i think it's

[4:32:47] Voice 6: really good and my aim was always um you know let's make sure that we're we're we're tightening

[4:32:55] Voice 6: up our processes so that they're they're good and and supportive of our communities and that they're

[4:33:00] Voice 6: There, there, there's not, um, you know, there aren't issues.

[4:33:04] Voice 6: Um, but also once we have those, once those laws and those processes are just and defensible,

[4:33:11] Voice 6: they should be enforced.

[4:33:13] Voice 6: We've, we need to have those bylaws be respected or people will just run roughshod over them.

[4:33:18] Voice 6: And it is important that when it comes down to the measures that need to be taken to protect

[4:33:23] Voice 6: our communities and our islands, that, that we have the teeth to do it.

[4:33:26] Voice 6: And that, you know, Manager Dingman and his staff have the means to do it.

[4:33:32] Voice 6: And I think in terms of the language, yes, of course, we can always afford to be civil and professional and can't be toothless.

[4:33:40] Voice 6: I think that's an important thing.

[4:33:41] Voice 6: And I think, I think, word, Manager Dingman understands this.

[4:33:45] Voice 6: And I know that this board, this committee does too.

[4:33:48] Voice 6: But I think it's important to express that sentiment as well.

[4:33:51] Voice 10: Okay, so firm and toothy is the way to go forward, I think.

[4:33:57] Voice 10: And can I just was one other thing that I noted, which was, I'm sure it's buried in there as well. And what is the review and update process for it? I know that you have a six month review, but in general, how and when do these kinds of policies get updated?

[4:34:17] Voice 10: stated? And is it in the law?

[4:34:20] Voice 2: Maybe not as explicit as your, sometimes I get so into the

[4:34:25] Voice 2: details, things that are implied in my mind. So it's a good question to make sure it's there.

[4:34:32] Voice 2: By, I did say, you know, report back in six months in September and every six months thereafter.

[4:34:37] Voice 2: And the intent is, you may recall trust counsel, you get a report on the totality of the bylaw

[4:34:43] Voice 2: law enforcement, how many infractions of what type on what island. And this work would supplement

[4:34:50] Voice 2: that by the metrics I note in the staff report, talk more about how the policy is being implemented

[4:34:57] Voice 2: and some of the various components of it. And over time, you'll start to see a pattern. It'll be

[4:35:03] Voice 2: a little awkward at first because you'd be wondering what to compare it to. And by bringing

[4:35:07] Voice 2: it forward every six months, hopefully, or I mean, I imagine over time, especially with new terms,

[4:35:13] Voice 2: firms, et cetera, and people get more comfortable seeing the data and it starts to tell a story,

[4:35:19] Voice 2: then that every six months gives the opportunity for trust counsel to go,

[4:35:23] Voice 2: well, so what? What are we doing about this? What do we need to do? And that keeps the policy alive.

[4:35:29] Voice 2: Maybe we'll find that every time you write a policy, as soon as it's adopted, there's something

[4:35:34] Voice 2: wrong with it, right? Just like every bylaw is outdated as soon as you produce it. And so by

[4:35:39] Voice 2: By keeping it alive every six months, by reporting metrics that are included in the policy, it's keeping the policy alive.

[4:35:46] Voice 2: And if Trust Council makes it a priority to amend it because of the feedback it's getting, that's great.

[4:35:51] Voice 2: But we operationalize now, or at least the plan is to operationalize that regular revisiting of metrics so you can make that decision without it having to be like,

[4:36:01] Voice 2: I wonder if that policy is doing its thing.

[4:36:03] Voice 2: No, you'll have metrics telling you that, hopefully.

[4:36:07] Voice 2: My guess is that you'll get too many metrics

[4:36:09] Voice 2: or we won't get good enough metrics

[4:36:11] Voice 2: and we'll tweak it as we go.

[4:36:12] Voice 2: But that's looking a couple of years down the line.

[4:36:15] Voice 2: Does

[4:36:16] Voice 10: that answer your question, Sharon?

[4:36:17] Voice 10: Yes, thank you.

[4:36:18] Voice 10: So we have 20 minutes to go.

[4:36:21] Voice 10: So I think we should bring this to a conclusion.

[4:36:26] Voice 10: And would anybody like to move the motion?

[4:36:33] Voice 10: Go ahead, Sam.

[4:36:41] Voice 6: You're on mute.

[4:36:42] Voice 10: You're muted.

[4:36:43] Voice 10: I knew

[4:36:45] Voice 6: I hadn't pressed all the buttons

[4:36:46] Voice 6: alright

[4:36:48] Voice 6: I move that the Regional Planning Committee endorse

[4:36:50] Voice 6: and refer to Trust Council

[4:36:51] Voice 6: A. the revisions to draft bylaw

[4:36:54] Voice 6: compliance and enforcement

[4:36:56] Voice 6: policy 5.5.1

[4:36:58] Voice 6: as shown in the draft attached to the request for

[4:37:00] Voice 6: decision dated January 29th

[4:37:02] Voice 6: 2026

[4:37:02] Voice 6: B. the draft bylaw compliance and enforcement

[4:37:05] Voice 6: best practices manual

[4:37:07] Voice 6: and C. the bylaws compliance and

[4:37:09] Voice 6: enforcement policy review and portal

[4:37:11] Voice 6: implementation plan

[4:37:12] Voice 6: land.

[4:37:16] Voice 10: Seconded by, I'll second it. Oh, Trustee Graham, go ahead. So seconded by Trustee Graham.

[4:37:26] Voice 12: I second it.

[4:37:28] Voice 10: Thank you. Okay, I call the motion. All those in favor, raise your hands.

[4:37:39] Voice 10: Anybody, lower your hands. Anybody against, raise your hand. So that carries. Thank you all.

[4:37:50] Voice 10: thanks great piece of work uh sam go ahead you wanted to say something yeah

[4:37:55] Voice 6: just just very

[4:37:56] Voice 6: briefly and reiterating what i was saying before i want to really uh commend staff uh on this work

[4:38:03] Voice 6: and and trustees is a lot of work um but it's it's this is really uh a major piece of work and

[4:38:11] Voice 6: i'm really pleased with the work that's that's happened and i want to just make sure that that

[4:38:16] Voice 6: staff are

[4:38:17] Voice 4: properly

[4:38:18] Voice 6: credited because this has been really great to work with you on this yeah

[4:38:22] Voice 10: i agree

[4:38:24] Trustee Patrick: uh chair patrick yeah and i i too want to add my voice when we set out you know the intent and i

[4:38:31] Trustee Patrick: think that's one of the things as we it's difficult to measure but i think trustees hear it with their

[4:38:36] Trustee Patrick: ears is the restoring public uh public trust and that kind of brings me to the delegation that we

[4:38:42] Trustee Patrick: had at the beginning of the meeting here today did we want to you know i i can't make a motion

[4:38:47] Trustee Patrick: because i'm ex officio but did we want to respond in writing or not to that delegation because and

[4:38:53] Trustee Patrick: i don't know if uh director sermac wanted to speak to some of the the um the aspects uh in particular

[4:39:00] Trustee Patrick: of uh the local trust committee involvement um so question of should we respond in writing

[4:39:06] Trustee Patrick: I

[4:39:09] Voice 10: personally I think we should respond in writing and I will make a motion to that effect

[4:39:14] Voice 10: but uh Stefan if nobody else wants to I do feel that it's it was um um the issue that was raised

[4:39:25] Voice 10: uh in particular with respect to the separation of um the elected officials from the bylaw

[4:39:34] Voice 10: law enforcement. I think that issue should be addressed. And I would like to have a formal

[4:39:43] Voice 10: response. Stephan, do you want to go ahead and speak?

[4:39:50] Voice 2: Well, sure, Chair. You know, I did briefly

[4:39:53] Voice 2: talk about at the beginning of this agenda item, and of course, you all spoke to it after the

[4:39:59] Voice 2: delegation. You know, if you're seeking more detail, you know, the question about the ombudsperson

[4:40:05] Voice 2: person's feedback versus the policy. As I first noted that, you know, the RPC considered this

[4:40:12] Voice 2: last year and trust council considered the same issue and just endorsed the project and move

[4:40:18] Voice 2: forward. So I'd say that the matter has been considered, but of course it's been brought up

[4:40:23] Voice 2: again. And so, you know, as we sit in our staff report, you know, we'll understand the concern,

[4:40:30] Voice 2: but felt that the current, you know, draft of the policy manual provide a framework for LTCs to

[4:40:35] Voice 2: to provide direction as an LTC on establishing enforcement priorities, but it's not directly

[4:40:41] Voice 2: involving in investigation of potential bylaw violations. And I think that's a really important

[4:40:47] Voice 2: distinction. I don't know if I'm making it clear enough that directing enforcement priorities

[4:40:52] Voice 2: versus directing investigation actions. So not involved with bylaw enforcement activities per

[4:41:01] Voice 2: per se but you're directing the resources of things and so you know that's that's actually

[4:41:07] Voice 2: articulated in the policy itself in section 12 maybe I'll get to it because I think it's

[4:41:15] Voice 2: whoops it's important and this is the LTC enforcement policies is that the that sort

[4:41:24] Voice 2: of discretionary you know direction of LTCs to staff are you know largely contained here and of

[4:41:30] Voice 2: Of course, this is trust council policy.

[4:41:32] Voice 2: How it's actually done is down an LTC level and it's separate, their own separate policy,

[4:41:36] Voice 2: but it must or should adhere to this policy.

[4:41:39] Voice 2: And really, to emphasize that it's for prioritizing or deferring enforcement based on scarce

[4:41:45] Voice 2: resources, the impacts of other types of contraventions and community priorities.

[4:41:49] Voice 2: And I can find several examples of how this has played out in various local trust areas.

[4:41:55] Voice 2: And of course, affordable housing or available housing is the number one way that jumps to

[4:42:00] Voice 2: mind.

[4:42:00] Voice 2: But really it's about an authority that they've always had is about directing enforcement activities in a way to optimize the resources, the limited resources that they have.

[4:42:11] Voice 2: So I think, you know, I'll leave it at that because I could go into a great detail.

[4:42:18] Voice 2: But maybe as a more concrete example, like I said, there's half a dozen LTCs that have adopted their own LTC enforcement policy that's responsive to this.

[4:42:30] Voice 2: and one has taken the position

[4:42:32] Voice 2: that they want less interaction

[4:42:33] Voice 2: with bylaw enforcement staff

[4:42:35] Voice 2: and want them to go off

[4:42:36] Voice 2: and just do their work.

[4:42:37] Voice 2: Whereas the others have not.

[4:42:39] Voice 2: And that's exactly,

[4:42:40] Voice 2: you know, that's up to the local,

[4:42:43] Voice 2: the LTC to decide.

[4:42:46] Voice 2: And you may say,

[4:42:47] Voice 2: well, oh no, that's, you know,

[4:42:48] Voice 2: I'm going to be at the,

[4:42:48] Voice 2: you know, I live on the islands as well.

[4:42:50] Voice 2: And that, oh, I'm going to be

[4:42:51] Voice 2: at the grocery store

[4:42:51] Voice 2: and I'm going to be co-opted.

[4:42:54] Voice 2: And of course you are, right?

[4:42:55] Voice 2: That's the bulk of your job.

[4:42:57] Voice 2: People are like,

[4:42:57] Voice 2: yeah, this thing's happening to me.

[4:42:58] Voice 2: this is terrible. But the trustees themselves are regulated by the standards of conduct and

[4:43:04] Voice 2: they swear an oath and there's processes to avoid that happening. So Island Trust Council policy

[4:43:10] Voice 2: has the standards of conduct. It's quite rigorous about how a trustee is to behave,

[4:43:15] Voice 2: which would avoid them having favoritism or corruption. And same thing at the provincial

[4:43:19] Voice 2: level when you're signing or doing a standards of conduct, which is being updated. So I really feel

[4:43:24] Voice 2: I feel like the fear of favoritism and corruption is not quite there.

[4:43:31] Voice 2: And the response that we gave to the ombudspersons from a staff perspective, which has been supported by RPC and the Trust Council,

[4:43:38] Voice 2: is that there's a distinction to be made at the local level between directing resources and investigations versus directly getting involved with enforcement.

[4:43:49] Voice 2: So all that is to say, I don't think there needs to be a change.

[4:43:54] Voice 2: I haven't heard any recommended change. And if you want me to help draft a report or a letter,

[4:43:58] Voice 2: I guess I can help do that.

[4:44:01] Voice 10: Right. So I did send a quick motion and Sherry, maybe you could put it up on the screen,

[4:44:08] Voice 10: please. Very brief and tell me if it needs additions.

[4:44:17] Voice 2: Sorry, I'm just reading the chat. Facelift.

[4:44:21] Voice 10: Yeah. Restoration.

[4:44:22] Voice 12: So share that. Can everyone see it?

[4:44:30] Voice 12: I was having some problem with it.

[4:44:34] Voice 2: Yes, we can see it, Sherry.

[4:44:36] Voice 2: Okay.

[4:44:37] Voice 12: Yeah, I was having a problem loading it.

[4:44:40] Voice 10: Thank you.

[4:44:41] Voice 10: Does that work?

[4:44:45] Voice 12: Yes.

[4:44:46] Voice 12: Okay.

[4:44:46] Voice 12: Yeah.

[4:44:47] Voice 12: Yeah.

[4:44:47] Voice 12: I see it now.

[4:44:48] Voice 10: Stefan, go ahead.

[4:44:50] Voice 2: So for clarity, you're asking staff to respond?

[4:44:54] Voice 2: Would you like to be the chair to respond?

[4:44:56] Voice 2: And if so, would you like to sort of at least indicate what

[4:45:01] Voice 10: you're responding?

[4:45:02] Voice 10: yeah request a staff to assist the chair in responding to the letter yeah in drafting a

[4:45:11] Voice 10: response to the letter does that work um laura you did speak and as chair of the islands trust

[4:45:28] Voice 10: would you like to have a role in this oh

[4:45:31] Trustee Patrick: well no i i mean i i just think it's important because

[4:45:35] Trustee Patrick: because it sits there by itself without, you know, what we spoke about it today,

[4:45:39] Trustee Patrick: but I just think, you know,

[4:45:42] Trustee Patrick: the intent of the bylaw policy is quite clear and it's worthy to have a

[4:45:49] Trustee Patrick: written, I'm sorry to have to say,

[4:45:51] Trustee Patrick: someone has to take time to respond and do it in writing.

[4:45:54] Trustee Patrick: But I think in this case, it's important.

[4:45:57] Voice 10: I think you're right.

[4:45:58] Voice 10: I think it's also an important issue because maybe we are different from

[4:46:04] Voice 10: from other areas and yes, we are different

[4:46:11] Voice 10: and we recognize that difference

[4:46:14] Voice 10: and we chose that route consciously

[4:46:18] Voice 10: and I think we should state that.

[4:46:20] Voice 10: Okay, so I move, go ahead, Sam.

[4:46:27] Voice 6: I can speak to it after it's motioned.

[4:46:29] Voice 10: Okay, I move that the Regional Planning Committee

[4:46:32] Voice 10: request staff to assist the chair in drafting a response to the letter from Friends of the

[4:46:37] Voice 10: Gulf Islands regarding the bylaw enforcement policy update. Would somebody like to second

[4:46:44] Voice 10: that or speak to it first? Go ahead, Sam.

[4:46:50] Voice 6: Yeah, I'll happily second. And then with your

[4:46:55] Voice 6: permission, I'll speak to it very briefly. Go ahead.

[4:46:57] Voice 6: Yeah. I think I'm comfortable with the

[4:47:04] Voice 6: with the decisions we've made.

[4:47:05] Voice 6: And I think that's the thrust of the letter generally.

[4:47:08] Voice 6: And I want to acknowledge that I think we're extremely aware.

[4:47:14] Voice 6: And obviously in the letter we received,

[4:47:19] Voice 6: you know, there's this,

[4:47:19] Voice 6: there is an absolute acknowledgement

[4:47:21] Voice 6: that current trustees are adhering to

[4:47:25] Voice 6: or are not necessarily,

[4:47:27] Voice 6: or the assertion is that we're not currently

[4:47:31] Voice 6: abusing this capacity.

[4:47:34] Voice 6: And I, the benefit that I think of retaining that current, you know, the current practice is that it in, it allows for, you know, obviously there's this concern that it could be abused, but it also, the benefit can be that we have a deeper and more nuanced understanding of our communities.

[4:47:58] Voice 6: and one would hope and this is again this is why it's not a single trustee making the decision

[4:48:05] Voice 6: one way or another on this it is that has to bake through a committee with an off-island chair who

[4:48:10] Voice 6: is not subject to local bias in the same way um that that it does allow for relief for things that

[4:48:18] Voice 6: are not priorities and it is about prioritizing resources as as director sermac was saying um

[4:48:24] Voice 6: But also, you know, it allows for local personal knowledge of situations to resolve issues.

[4:48:34] Voice 6: And obviously, this doesn't preclude those decisions being appealed.

[4:48:38] Voice 6: You know, if you have an issue with that, that's certainly something that we would encourage you to discuss with your LTC and with staff.

[4:48:44] Voice 6: um but but totally acknowledge the where the concern comes from and that and wanting to like

[4:48:49] Voice 6: prevent against that abuse um and that i think we all take that abuse very seriously and indeed

[4:48:55] Voice 6: mr archer cermak is saying we take an oath to obviously we know some people take those oaths

[4:49:00] Voice 6: more seriously than others but i i would hope that anyone who gets into the position of being

[4:49:05] Voice 6: trustee being chosen by the community would take that seriously and this just affords us a little

[4:49:10] Voice 6: bit of flexibility and the risk we've we're definitely conscious of that this is not something

[4:49:15] Voice 6: that we have decided upon idly um and just that would be i would hope that that would be a part

[4:49:20] Voice 6: of the characterization of the letter that's all thank

[4:49:24] Voice 10: you sam okay with that um uh let's i'm going

[4:49:29] Voice 10: to call the vote all those in favor raise your hands um okay and lower your hands uh anybody who

[4:49:45] Voice 10: who is against raise your hands okay that carries thank you okay we have a eight minutes left

[4:49:58] Voice 10: and um so i'm going to carry on a step and correct me if i'm going too fast or dropping

[4:50:07] Voice 10: things off the agenda that um should be dealt with so and business other we don't have and

[4:50:14] Voice 10: Business new, I think we've dealt with that motion.

[4:50:20] Voice 10: The work program for review and referral before each quarterly TC meeting.

[4:50:25] Voice 10: So the work program, anybody want to raise anything here?

[4:50:35] Voice 10: Stefan, do you want to speak to this?

[4:50:37] Voice 10: Is there anything you want to ask us?

[4:50:40] Voice 2: I think, Chair, you had a brief email to me talking about putting specific dates

[4:50:46] Voice 2: beside maybe some of the sub-deliverables.

[4:50:50] Voice 2: I certainly can contemplate that.

[4:50:53] Voice 2: I'm conscious that these are deliberately crafted

[4:50:57] Voice 2: from Trust Council strategic priorities.

[4:51:00] Voice 2: And so putting the broader date may not work well,

[4:51:08] Voice 2: especially when I'm looking at the implementation plan

[4:51:09] Voice 2: for freshwater sustainability strategy.

[4:51:11] Voice 10: So

[4:51:12] Voice 2: I can take that with general consent,

[4:51:14] Voice 2: if that's what the group would like to do.

[4:51:15] Voice 10: Yeah, that's fine.

[4:51:16] Voice 10: Just do your best.

[4:51:17] Voice 10: It's just sometimes it's kind of a bundle

[4:51:19] Voice 10: and you think it would be nice to know if any of those are going to be fast-tracked as opposed to

[4:51:25] Voice 10: be more slow that would be fine okay and anything anybody else wants to raise with respect to this

[4:51:33] Voice 10: i see um so the policies this was the list that you prepared and now you're saying rightly that

[4:51:44] Voice 10: that as David Mara is working on it also,

[4:51:48] Voice 10: this will

[4:51:48] Voice 10: just sort of,

[4:51:50] Voice 10: maybe that date would become well-received.

[4:51:58] Voice 10: Future projects.

[4:51:59] Voice 10: Okay, that's fine.

[4:52:00] Voice 10: I've slipped from one list into the other.

[4:52:03] Voice 10: That's fine.

[4:52:03] Voice 2: If that's okay, madam, sure.

[4:52:05] Voice 10: I went through

[4:52:06] Voice 10: that door.

[4:52:08] Voice 10: Okay, fair enough.

[4:52:10] Voice 10: Okay, well, I think if that's good enough for the moment,

[4:52:16] Voice 10: The next thing we need to look at is the next regular meeting is on May the 1st, 10 to 3.

[4:52:26] Voice 10: And definitely on that, I think, will be Freshwater Sustainability Report.

[4:52:34] Voice 4: And,

[4:52:35] Voice 10: you know, maybe there might even be a draft of that summary list to look at.

[4:52:42] Voice 10: that. And I think we also, the other item was the further information on the LIST. Anybody

[4:52:59] Voice 10: want to add anything to that? No.

[4:53:03] Voice 2: Maybe Chair, if I can just sort of summarize

[4:53:06] Voice 2: something. So if Trust Council approves the

[4:53:10] Voice 2: the funding for the Freshwater Sustainability Review.

[4:53:18] Voice 2: You know, if you look at the timeline that we have put together,

[4:53:22] Voice 2: you know, the first quarter, April, we would get about issuing RFP.

[4:53:29] Voice 2: And then hopefully within, you know, a month to two months,

[4:53:31] Voice 2: we get that in place.

[4:53:35] Voice 2: What you heard William speak about, your meetings may first, you have the opportunity, perhaps,

[4:53:45] Voice 2: if you'd like to see the terms of reference. I mean, it won't be too complicated because it's

[4:53:49] Voice 2: just a review of the strategy, but there's an opportunity for the RPC to be involved in that

[4:53:54] Voice 2: process, whether you'd like to review the terms of reference before we put together a request for

[4:53:59] Voice 2: proposals or um we can you can decide that you want to be involved at least in the review and

[4:54:06] Voice 2: be interviewed or something along those lines we can have rpc involvement with the consultant when

[4:54:10] Voice 2: they do show up um so um is there a sense there you sort of asked the question if if you don't

[4:54:19] Voice 2: know um i think generally what we would do is get the contract out as per the business case and we

[4:54:26] Voice 2: we would involve it in the business case to have RPC involvement in the

[4:54:29] Voice 2: discussion of the review and stuff like that.

[4:54:31] Voice 2: So if you're comfortable with that, we'll go with that.

[4:54:35] Voice 2: But the reason I bring it up is the timing.

[4:54:37] Voice 2: You still

[4:54:38] Voice 2: have an opportunity.

[4:54:39] Voice 2: We can slow down the service or the RFP so that you can have a little bit

[4:54:44] Voice 2: more discussion based on the things.

[4:54:46] Voice 10: I don't want to slow anything down.

[4:54:47] Voice 10: I think in the trust, my experience is that, yeah.

[4:54:54] Voice 10: A

[4:54:54] Voice 2: one month delay is a three month delay.

[4:54:56] Voice 10: Would anybody else like to comment on what Stefan has just said, or should we just say, go ahead, Stefan, keep us informed, I think.

[4:55:07] Voice 10: If you could send us out, you know, an update, X has happened, Y has happened, that would be really helpful.

[4:55:13] Voice 10: But I think on balance, just carry on.

[4:55:17] Voice 2: Understood.

[4:55:18] Voice 10: Yeah.

[4:55:20] Voice 10: Okay.

[4:55:21] Voice 10: Well, with that, no closed meeting.

[4:55:24] Voice 10: meeting. So I propose that we adjourn this meeting with two minutes to spare. And would

[4:55:31] Voice 10: anybody else like to say anything? And if not, I will, by consent, adjourn the meeting.

[4:55:40] Voice 14: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, staff. This is a great one.

[4:55:44] Voice 14: Yeah,

[4:55:45] Voice 10: all of our, I just found the discussion in general ranging across the biology, the

[4:55:51] Voice 10: the freshwater and the bylaw, I mean, it really was a pretty good meeting and an extensive

[4:55:58] Voice 10: discussion.

[4:55:59] Voice 14: It's all coming together, like these are major projects, and I think, yeah, I really

[4:56:05] Voice 14: encourage trustees to tell your community members to watch this meeting, because I think they'll

[4:56:10] Voice 14: understand a lot of the, you know, the 10-year span of work on some of these things, so thanks

[4:56:18] Voice 14: thanks everyone yeah

[4:56:19] Voice 10: thank you trustee elliott okay take care everyone bye-bye

[4:56:25] Voice 10: thank you sherry thank you bye-bye thanks

[4:56:29] Voice 12: everyone thanks sherry