Islands Trust Council regular meeting, January 18, 2021

[0:00:00] Voice 8: that out for this for um amendment before you get to selection of chair we

[0:00:06] Voice 12: need a motion

[0:00:10] Voice 12: carmen

[0:00:12] Voice 10: um i would not

[0:00:14] Voice 10: really care about that i

[0:00:17] Trustee Luckham: would suggest you wait till you convened the

[0:00:19] Trustee Luckham: meeting formally and elected your chair and stuff thank

[0:00:23] Voice 8: you well i don't think you can elect it

[0:00:25] Voice 8: well then i can i won't be voting for a chair then i guess is that's why this

[0:00:30] Voice 3: item as long as you're

[0:00:33] Voice 3: a member of the committee uh you're voting i i totally understand that problem with the with

[0:00:37] Voice 3: the conflict

[0:00:38] Voice 3: so as long as you're on the committee that's all i'm really concerned yeah

[0:00:41] Voice 8: i'll be a

[0:00:41] Voice 8: good staff liaison for you so um as you proceed i'll i'll relax from voting and won't be a voting

[0:00:46] Voice 8: member of the of the body as you all are thank you and

[0:00:50] Trustee Luckham: so if that affects quorum um carmen perhaps

[0:00:54] Trustee Luckham: the ceo might like to leave the meeting uh temporarily until this bit of business is

[0:00:59] Trustee Luckham: conducted does

[0:01:02] Voice 12: does it affect quorum no i

[0:01:04] Voice 10: think as long as russ isn't voting i'm not sure that's

[0:01:08] Voice 10: an issue as far as i see it you know like any other staff resource person that's present at

[0:01:13] Voice 10: the meeting right now yeah sounds good

[0:01:17] Voice 10: and

[0:01:18] Trustee Middleton: just just for the to clarify and indeed russ we uh as

[0:01:24] Trustee Middleton: a group would have been thrilled for you to be a voting member but completely um uh take uh your

[0:01:30] Trustee Middleton: your guidance and, you know, fully understand and accept that you will participate, but

[0:01:38] Trustee Middleton: without casting a vote.

[0:01:40] Trustee Middleton: So we're, you know, respect your decision there for sure.

[0:01:44] Trustee Middleton: But thank

[0:01:45] Voice 8: you very much.

[0:01:45] Voice 8: Thank you for the opportunity.

[0:01:46] Voice 8: It's a decline with thanks, I think the way they say it and appreciate it.

[0:01:53] Voice 8: But yeah, I think this is a good way to go.

[0:01:56] Voice 8: Right.

[0:01:57] Voice 8: So I think it's over to you, Carmen, to work your magic.

[0:02:02] Voice 10: Sure. So before we head into the election for chair and vice chair, I just wanted to cover a

[0:02:07] Voice 10: few procedural points about quorum and so on. So based on there being nine trustees on the

[0:02:13] Voice 10: committee, the quorum is a majority. So five trustees will constitute a majority for starting

[0:02:19] Voice 10: meeting. And the trust council meeting procedures bylaw will guide this committee like it does all

[0:02:25] Voice 10: council committees. And where that bylaw is silent, you move on to Robert's rules.

[0:02:30] Voice 10: as you already know emotions carried when a majority of members present vote in favor

[0:02:36] Voice 10: or alternatively when a majority of members vote against a motion all committee meetings

[0:02:44] Voice 10: of elected officials must be open to the public unless you go in camera and close the meeting

[0:02:49] Voice 10: so going into the future the notices of meeting agendas and minutes will be published on the

[0:02:55] Voice 10: the Islands Trust website, as we do for all council committees. And then the public is

[0:03:01] Voice 10: welcome to attend the open portion if they so choose. The committee can hold electronic meetings

[0:03:08] Voice 10: and can conduct resolutions without meeting just like the standing committees. And then trustees

[0:03:14] Voice 10: who aren't members of this committee can attend the open meeting, but only attend closed if

[0:03:20] Voice 10: if permitted by your committee.

[0:03:22] Voice 10: They may participate in discussion with the permission

[0:03:26] Voice 10: of the majority of select committee members

[0:03:28] Voice 10: and are not allowed to vote.

[0:03:30] Voice 10: So that's just a little highlight of the rules that apply.

[0:03:35] Voice 10: And if there are any questions,

[0:03:38] Voice 10: I'd be happy to answer those,

[0:03:40] Voice 10: or we can move right into the election

[0:03:41] Voice 10: of chair and vice chair.

[0:03:43] Voice 9: I for one, I'm happy to move into the election

[0:03:46] Voice 9: and thank you very much for being so concise and precise.

[0:03:50] Voice 9: size.

[0:03:50] Voice 10: You're welcome. So first order of business is to elect the chair and nominations need to be

[0:03:58] Voice 10: made and then seconded by someone other than the nominee. And each nominee is asked about their

[0:04:05] Voice 10: willingness to stand once nominated. Voting is by secret ballot. In this case, it's sending your

[0:04:11] Voice 10: vote of choice to me because we're not passing around ballots. And if we have more than one

[0:04:18] Voice 10: nominee for chair, then I'll quickly send you my email address and you can respond with your vote,

[0:04:25] Voice 10: the surname of the person of your choice. And then following all the votes being received,

[0:04:30] Voice 10: I announce the vote count, but not who voted how. In other words, it's the equivalent of a secret

[0:04:36] Voice 10: ballot. And so why don't we just go ahead then. And I call for nominations for the position of

[0:04:44] Voice 10: chair of the governance and management review select committee i

[0:04:48] Voice 12: nominate lee middleton second

[0:04:52] Voice 10: brent and wright and trustee middleton do you agree to stand uh

[0:04:59] Trustee Middleton: yes thank you it would be

[0:05:01] Trustee Middleton: my pleasure to help facilitate this okay

[0:05:04] Voice 10: i'm supposed to stand

[0:05:05] Voice 10: i call for nominations a

[0:05:09] Voice 10: second time call for nominations a third time i'd

[0:05:14] Trustee Luckham: like to nominate trustee critchley

[0:05:19] Trustee Critchley: okay thank you that's uh very kind but i will respectfully uh decline thank you very much

[0:05:27] Trustee Luckham: i can't blame me for trying

[0:05:31] Voice 10: okay and i call for nominations a third time and hearing no further nominations i declare

[0:05:41] Voice 10: Claire, Trustee Middleton, Chair of the Committee by Acclamation.

[0:05:46] Voice 10: So that election down, and we'll move on to Vice Chair.

[0:05:51] Voice 10: So I call for nominations for the position of Vice Chair for the Select Committee.

[0:05:55] Voice 9: I nominate Case Langeres for Vice Chair.

[0:06:00] Voice 9: I second that.

[0:06:02] Voice 9: Who

[0:06:02] Voice 10: was the seconder for that, sorry?

[0:06:04] Voice 12: I was. Paul Brent.

[0:06:06] Voice 12: Okay.

[0:06:07] Voice 12: Okay.

[0:06:09] Voice 10: Okay. And Trustee Langerheis, do you accept that nomination?

[0:06:18] Voice 11: I do.

[0:06:19] Voice 10: All right. I call for nominations a second time. Call for nominations for Vice-Chair a third time.

[0:06:28] Voice 10: Trustee Critchley, would you like to run for Vice-Chair?

[0:06:33] Trustee Critchley: No, I wouldn't. Thank you very much.

[0:06:36] Voice 10: Okay. Hearing no further nominations, then I declare Trustee Langerheis Vice-Chair of the Committee by Acclamation.

[0:06:44] Voice 10: and that's the end of the um elections great

[0:06:48] Trustee Middleton: thank you turn

[0:06:50] Voice 10: it over to chair middleton

[0:06:52] Trustee Middleton: great thank thank you very much everyone and and um and so i think um just uh but pleased to uh

[0:07:00] Trustee Middleton: accept this responsibility and and would generally be providing a bit of a light touch as more of a

[0:07:06] Trustee Middleton: facilitative uh role i i see it as you know we've sort of several of us have worked together over

[0:07:11] Trustee Middleton: the past while and that's certainly how i would see proceeding in this work is uh you know make

[0:07:17] Trustee Middleton: sure everyone's voice is heard and wherever possible we arrive at a a generally acceptable

[0:07:22] Trustee Middleton: consensus position as we move uh as we move ahead so uh um i there might be some technical

[0:07:31] Trustee Middleton: challenges in that my internet connectivity is is uh is uh affected by that great nemesis

[0:07:40] Trustee Middleton: freighters completely block out the signal as they go by really yeah it's a lot better now

[0:07:47] Trustee Middleton: we've hardwired everything but um i i would say that you know for sake of convenience if i if i'm

[0:07:52] Trustee Middleton: lost that just be understood i guess that it uh if i'm not if i'm chairing that it would just you

[0:07:59] Trustee Middleton: know procedures could perhaps just fall to trustee long arise until the the signal returns for for

[0:08:05] Trustee Middleton: the sake of holding everybody up just because i you know i hope it doesn't happen but i

[0:08:09] Trustee Middleton: unfortunately know it will happen um and um yeah and then and then otherwise i'm you know certainly

[0:08:17] Trustee Middleton: not uh um a pro at chairing meetings through zoom so if i'm missing anyone or anyone's voice is not

[0:08:24] Trustee Middleton: being recognized please feel free to correct and um and um and and jump in by whatever means is

[0:08:31] Trustee Middleton: necessary to to uh to be able to speak um yeah but beyond beyond that um i think um we can get

[0:08:42] Trustee Middleton: into our our agenda which uh russ and staff have kindly kindly prepared um for us um is there any

[0:08:49] Trustee Middleton: anything just before we kick off there anything anyone which is to uh to add or comment before

[0:08:54] Trustee Middleton: we begin the business of the agenda uh

[0:08:57] Voice 11: i just wanted to comment that you could always become

[0:09:00] Voice 11: become a disembodied voice if need be if bandwidth this becomes an issue sure thank you that helps

[0:09:08] Trustee Middleton: yeah just from a technical aside i took some technical guidance and uh hard wiring a zoom

[0:09:16] Trustee Middleton: signal into your machine is always preferable apparently than using a wi-fi signal and i have

[0:09:23] Trustee Middleton: to say after i did that here it's made a huge difference um and so uh yeah so anyway fingers

[0:09:31] Trustee Middleton: crossed obviously we all will all bear with it as as we need to but um and uh thank you for your

[0:09:38] Trustee Middleton: patience in advance so yeah and anything anyone else wants to add in said trustee wright

[0:09:45] Trustee Middleton: uh mr chair i just like uh i

[0:09:48] Voice 3: i the comments that i've heard from some members of the ec

[0:09:52] Voice 3: and also some comments from our CAO about staff

[0:09:57] Voice 3: being somewhat reluctant about this review taking place.

[0:10:01] Voice 3: And it might just clear the air if we could hear

[0:10:05] Voice 3: from Chair Lockem and from our CAO,

[0:10:08] Voice 3: exactly what those concerns and what those fears are

[0:10:11] Voice 3: so that we can try and resolve some of those things

[0:10:15] Voice 3: because I think it's going to be incredibly important

[0:10:18] Voice 3: that everybody join in wholeheartedly

[0:10:21] Voice 3: in this motion from council

[0:10:22] Voice 3: and work towards the most positive outcome as we can.

[0:10:26] Voice 3: And I don't want anybody being reluctant

[0:10:29] Voice 3: or not willing to participate with an open heart

[0:10:35] Voice 3: and with full effort on getting this review accomplished.

[0:10:42] Trustee Middleton: I guess I'll put at this point over to our CEO or Chair Luck.

[0:10:46] Trustee Middleton: I mean, I know that there's going to be definite role,

[0:10:49] Trustee Middleton: I think, very direct and honest conversation

[0:10:52] Trustee Middleton: when we do attend to a couple of items in the agenda that might touch upon what you're talking

[0:10:56] Trustee Middleton: about there trustee right but far be it from me to presume so so at this point if if uh our ceo or

[0:11:03] Trustee Middleton: chair wish to say anything but by all means um go ahead

[0:11:12] Voice 8: or

[0:11:12] Trustee Luckham: well like i well one maybe clear there a little bit more um i think it would be better

[0:11:18] Trustee Luckham: for all concerned if I was referred to as Trustee Luckham. Let's try and do that. And I would

[0:11:27] Trustee Luckham: actually prefer at this moment, not having been prepared to answer this question, and not really

[0:11:33] Trustee Luckham: a spokesperson for staff, would like the CAO to comment. If you had some anecdotal information

[0:11:43] Trustee Luckham: that may supplement that. I think it would be better for that to come from the CAO. And

[0:11:49] Trustee Luckham: CAO, if you disagree, please.

[0:11:53] Voice 8: All things are running towards the CAO at the start here, which is tremendous fun. No,

[0:12:00] Voice 8: you know, I just would recommend proceed wholeheartedly with this work. We'll be vigilant all the way

[0:12:08] Voice 8: around. I'm hearing the good words that are being said by members of the committee.

[0:12:12] Voice 8: Staff certainly are not an uninterested or unaffected observer and participant in this

[0:12:19] Voice 8: process. It's going to live how it lives. I have a specific comment about one of the elements of

[0:12:27] Voice 8: the terms of reference. When you get to that, I'm happy to share those views with you.

[0:12:32] Voice 8: I'll distill anything that comes back from staff so that you're aware of things. Certainly anytime

[0:12:38] Voice 8: times someone says in an organization let's take a look at how we do things people go well why and

[0:12:45] Voice 8: you know how could this affect me and and those kinds of things and those are natural human

[0:12:52] Voice 8: responses and I'll do my best to be clear with you if so if a line we bounce up against a line

[0:13:00] Voice 8: that needs some response keep in mind my role will be working with the staff to ensure they

[0:13:07] Voice 8: They keep their work and their focus on the abundant work

[0:13:11] Voice 8: that Trust Council has already provided to it

[0:13:13] Voice 8: and also dealing with you as you work through things.

[0:13:17] Voice 8: So I'll have my hands full sort of on both sides of the ledger here.

[0:13:21] Voice 8: But I don't think we have to mine anything right now

[0:13:24] Voice 8: other than get into the business of the day.

[0:13:28] Voice 8: And certainly I can share a comment with you later

[0:13:31] Voice 8: more specifically on one of the items on the TOR.

[0:13:35] Voice 1: Okay. Great.

[0:13:36] Voice 8: Great.

[0:13:36] Trustee Middleton: Thank you. Yeah. So without any further comment from anybody, shall we proceed with approval of agenda?

[0:13:45] Trustee Luckham: I

[0:13:45] Trustee Middleton: move approval.

[0:13:48] Trustee Middleton: Yes, sorry. Trustee Luckham, pardon me.

[0:13:52] Trustee Luckham: Thank you. I just want to add one small wish, I suppose, and that, of course, all of these meetings need to be safe places for all of us to participate and speak our minds without criticism.

[0:14:06] Trustee Luckham: and i think that taking that one step further here um we should talk to the issues and not about

[0:14:12] Trustee Luckham: individuals uh particularly when we talk about staff's involvement in any particular delivery or

[0:14:18] Trustee Luckham: or service of the work that they do for us for which we are very grateful and that it should

[0:14:25] Trustee Luckham: just be conducted in a very respectful manner good

[0:14:29] Trustee Middleton: good words yeah thank thank you trustee love him

[0:14:35] Trustee Middleton: And, yeah, I think at that point, yeah, there's certainly a piece of work to do here.

[0:14:43] Trustee Middleton: And I think, obviously, we're not all going to have perfect agreement and alignment.

[0:14:49] Trustee Middleton: And I think this group is well positioned to support difference, yet move ahead.

[0:14:54] Trustee Middleton: head and so I think without further ado then I'd ask if there's any amendments

[0:15:00] Trustee Middleton: to the agenda as presented and we can consider them okay see seeing none I can

[0:15:11] Trustee Middleton: ask for a motion to approve the agenda please yes

[0:15:14] Voice 9: okay

[0:15:15] Trustee Middleton: so trustee Kaelin second

[0:15:17] Trustee Middleton: please program great so that that agenda is approved as presented thank you very

[0:15:26] Trustee Middleton: very much. We don't have any minutes. Sorry, missed the vote in favor. Thanks. All right.

[0:15:42] Trustee Middleton: Now the agenda is approved. I think the next item, adoption of minutes, obviously we don't

[0:15:51] Trustee Middleton: have any minutes. This is the inaugural meeting of our group. Correct me if I'm wrong, CEO

[0:15:56] Trustee Middleton: but um uh laurie foster has kindly um consented to provide minutes for for our work which um if

[0:16:06] Trustee Middleton: that's true we most certainly appreciate our efforts um and so

[0:16:11] Voice 8: uh on at 7.2 i'll just quickly

[0:16:14] Voice 8: do a quick outline of staff who will be um assisting the committee as they do their work

[0:16:18] Trustee Middleton: okay great thank you and um i think seeing as there are obviously no items to consider in agenda

[0:16:24] Trustee Middleton: agenda item number six we can move to that now if you would which would be seven work program items

[0:16:36] Voice 8: so uh or none well it's

[0:16:40] Voice 4: over to you mr

[0:16:40] Voice 8: chair um we've simply um if you will i'll just for sure

[0:16:45] Voice 8: yeah do a very brief thing i think laurie actually put this together and this was

[0:16:48] Voice 8: um taken from your um terms of reference a initial schedule of meetings or or um a schedule let's put

[0:16:57] Voice 8: put it that way and it hasn't got the commensurate meetings tacked on with it yet to

[0:17:03] Voice 8: address the reasonably aggressive timeline that you've got in mind

[0:17:09] Voice 8: so that being and these aren't my words by any stretch but just because

[0:17:15] Voice 8: why not February 10th for the RFP March 25th for the proponent selection work to begin on April 1st

[0:17:23] Voice 8: interim report in at the late fall meeting and then the winter meeting December meeting to have

[0:17:30] Voice 8: the report finalized and accepted and you're now going to need to contemplate and I will say

[0:17:37] Voice 8: something just at the end of these comments how you want your meetings to make that work

[0:17:46] Voice 8: and you might want to have it just in terms of the discussions today a talk about the terms of

[0:17:53] Voice 8: reference that will then lead you to um how you want to schedule the next amount of meetings over

[0:18:00] Voice 8: the short term rather than the long term because i think it's this first bit that's going to be

[0:18:04] Voice 8: important as you as you do your work but other than that it's uh over to you for your discussion

[0:18:09] Voice 8: mr chair great

[0:18:12] Trustee Middleton: thank you um i think that's sage sage advice i think what we we obviously had uh

[0:18:18] Trustee Middleton: in the terms of reference i think if i'm speaking for the committee and correct me if i'm if i'm

[0:18:24] Trustee Middleton: wrong um we look at sort of a tentative program of work and of course as you suggest it's important

[0:18:30] Trustee Middleton: that we get the um the documents right and the bid package right and the um the process right

[0:18:37] Trustee Middleton: um and take the time to do that and there is a little bit of potential slippage shall we say

[0:18:43] Trustee Middleton: quote unquote possible in that um um the request for proposals could be issued towards

[0:18:50] Trustee Middleton: towards the end of February, even into the beginning of March, my understanding is any

[0:18:55] Trustee Middleton: proposal or request for proposal, you would normally keep live for about 30 days as a

[0:19:02] Trustee Middleton: maximum.

[0:19:04] Trustee Middleton: And so if, you know, if we don't get, if we're not satisfied as a group that we've got the

[0:19:10] Trustee Middleton: right package ready until toward the end of February, then I think that would be fine.

[0:19:14] Trustee Middleton: I think we're already a little bit behind perhaps that schedule as presented there,

[0:19:20] Trustee Middleton: which was obviously drafted last year before the practical realities of organizing ourselves.

[0:19:26] Trustee Middleton: So I think that I would certainly accept the CAO's suggestion that we do the work and then

[0:19:34] Trustee Middleton: put a schedule together based on our understanding of how the work's unfolding.

[0:19:39] Trustee Middleton: But I'm open, obviously, to any further comments from anyone on that.

[0:19:42] Trustee Middleton: no no that makes sense to me great okay um anything further ceo hudson pillar on on that

[0:19:53] Trustee Middleton: topic no

[0:19:54] Voice 8: just uh you'll just at the end of this meeting you'll return to 7.1 and then you'll

[0:19:59] Voice 8: provide some direction no no

[0:20:00] Trustee Middleton: right okay thank you yeah so to to i guess moving on then if we could

[0:20:08] Trustee Middleton: so the schedule of meetings um we've we've just treated and obviously we'll return to

[0:20:16] Trustee Middleton: um 8.2 is um i think that's something that you wish to speak to is it not 7.2 so that's what

[0:20:28] Voice 8: i've got yeah 7.2 yeah so this is simply um to make sure that the committee's got the resources

[0:20:34] Voice 8: it needs to do its work, and thank you for relinquishing me from my voting responsibilities.

[0:20:42] Voice 8: So I would attend the meetings for this body, acting in my capacity as a CAO, offer you

[0:20:52] Voice 8: some advice, provide administrative work, and the extent of which would be determined

[0:21:01] Voice 8: by how this goes.

[0:21:04] Voice 8: And then, so that would be my role.

[0:21:08] Voice 8: The second one is that Lori will do our minutes

[0:21:13] Voice 8: and provide sort of the administrivia

[0:21:15] Voice 8: associated with the meetings.

[0:21:17] Voice 8: Carmen is going to be our legislative.

[0:21:19] Voice 8: So she'll come in and do some legislative assistance

[0:21:21] Voice 8: and those kinds of things on an as needed basis.

[0:21:26] Voice 8: And finally, we've got Julia and Nancy in the background

[0:21:30] Voice 8: ground from a procurement finance budget kind of perspective and I'll just over as things develop

[0:21:38] Voice 8: I will simply manage those and report back to you as those resources are needed if there's something

[0:21:45] Voice 8: else needed let me know right now obviously we have the ability to work in a in an electronic

[0:21:51] Voice 8: format and through zoom meetings you're all aware of this because you're all at LTC meetings that

[0:21:58] Voice 8: That probably won't have a shelf life of forever.

[0:22:02] Voice 8: As soon as the state of emergency is lifted,

[0:22:04] Voice 8: then I think there's a 90-day interregnum or whatever you want to call it.

[0:22:08] Voice 8: And then after that, potentially the requirement for live meetings again.

[0:22:14] Voice 8: And at that point, you might need to incur some expense.

[0:22:17] Voice 8: I just can't tell what that is.

[0:22:19] Voice 8: So that's what I've got for resourcing.

[0:22:25] Trustee Middleton: Great. Thank you.

[0:22:26] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, and I think one of the items would be, I think you've covered it, that as the work is underway, this is not to foreshadow what the work would look like, but there may be some coordination with staff in terms of fact-finding, interviewing, that type of thing that would be required.

[0:22:49] Trustee Middleton: them are expectations that would go in through just purely for the sake of uh efficiency and

[0:22:55] Trustee Middleton: accuracy that would only go through you um right you know you would assign or facilitate however

[0:23:01] Trustee Middleton: yes

[0:23:01] Voice 8: and i don't consider those to be like resources to the committee that's part of the

[0:23:05] Voice 8: project work and you know we just don't have a guess on how extensive that will be at this point

[0:23:12] Voice 8: or involved um it could go it's very expansive piece terms of reference so that i'll um you know

[0:23:22] Voice 8: and just so we're clear i have a responsibility to ec and trust council as well in my role and

[0:23:26] Voice 8: obviously a responsibility to yourself so i'll just um as that unfolds um keep the lines of

[0:23:32] Voice 8: communication open great thank

[0:23:34] Voice 8: you um

[0:23:35] Trustee Middleton: i've got the correct agenda now you'll be pleased to know

[0:23:38] Trustee Middleton: so i'm on the same numbers as

[0:23:39] Trustee Middleton: everybody else

[0:23:41] Trustee Middleton: um um so was there any any comments from committee

[0:23:45] Trustee Middleton: members or anything on at 7.2 before we move on to uh discussion of um of their streaming or

[0:23:52] Trustee Middleton: recording of the meeting oh okay i

[0:23:57] Voice 12: have a question i'm just wondering where the responsibility lies

[0:24:01] Voice 12: when we're talking about with trust council and the executive committee i would presume that

[0:24:06] Voice 12: trust counsel is the primary uh your primary responsibility and the executive would be second

[0:24:12] Voice 12: since this is a motion of trust counsel i just need clarity there and and it's quite obvious

[0:24:18] Voice 12: based upon some of the uh statements made uh in the public domain that the executive uh has some

[0:24:25] Voice 12: has some concerns about this so i'm just i'd like clarity there please well

[0:24:31] Voice 8: i might need a better

[0:24:32] Voice 8: question um certainly trust counts i report to executive committee and i you know when trust

[0:24:39] Voice 8: council um says go do something um i go do it but i i report to executive committee they

[0:24:45] Voice 8: manage my workload and those kinds of things and on a bi or tri-weekly basis i get back to them

[0:24:52] Voice 8: um and on some committees like fpc or tpc or a regional planning committee i would

[0:24:58] Voice 8: have a different role with this committee I would have I think I would be the primary

[0:25:02] Voice 8: staff liaison as opposed to somebody else and certainly as trust council makes motions

[0:25:09] Voice 8: they are to be fulfilled and on a regular basis I'd report to EC but the the content specific

[0:25:17] Voice 8: work associated with this is is based on the steering committee's direction thank

[0:25:25] Trustee Middleton: you thank you

[0:25:26] Trustee Middleton: you um okay no further comments i think we could move to uh the discussion of live stream or

[0:25:34] Trustee Middleton: recording um the the meetings um obviously there's um i don't know if there needs to be any discussion

[0:25:42] Trustee Middleton: around that if you still have any anything you want to say about that or uh

[0:25:47] Voice 8: briefly um all

[0:25:49] Voice 8: committees at the islands trust have made this decision and that's whether they do what we're

[0:25:53] Voice 8: doing right now and that is record and then post to fulfill our obligations and our desires to

[0:26:00] Voice 8: have things be public and transparent. So we did that at the start of the COVID for a while and

[0:26:05] Voice 8: then our technology made it allowable for us to actually live stream those meetings. So each

[0:26:11] Voice 8: committee then sat and discussed whether they wanted live streaming or record and post and I

[0:26:18] Voice 8: I think, Laurie always knows a little bit more than I do, all of them agreed that that was that

[0:26:23] Voice 8: they would then live stream. So then we, if we live stream, we drop the attendance at a meeting

[0:26:30] Voice 8: by others, and people just listen to it live, and it's broadcast. So I think that's the question

[0:26:37] Voice 8: for your discussion, just like any other Committee of the Islands Trust.

[0:26:42] Trustee Middleton: Great, thank you. Any

[0:26:44] Trustee Middleton: Any comments from any member in regard to preference?

[0:26:48] Trustee Middleton: I'm fine

[0:26:48] Voice 12: with live streaming.

[0:26:49] Voice 12: That's what pretty much everyone does now.

[0:26:53] Voice 12: So that would work for me.

[0:26:55] Voice 12: It works at the local trust level.

[0:26:57] Voice 12: I totally agree.

[0:26:59] Voice 9: And it works at a municipal level as well.

[0:27:02] Voice 9: So I think we're all aligned.

[0:27:04] Trustee Middleton: Okay.

[0:27:04] Trustee Middleton: Do we need a motion to make a choice?

[0:27:07] Voice 11: Yeah, that would be good.

[0:27:08] Voice 11: Yeah.

[0:27:08] Voice 11: Okay.

[0:27:09] Voice 11: I'll move.

[0:27:10] Voice 11: I move that in order to meet the principles of openness,

[0:27:13] Voice 11: transparency and accessibility meetings of the governance

[0:27:17] Voice 11: and management review select committee

[0:27:19] Voice 11: will be held electronically until a ministerial orders

[0:27:22] Voice 11: under the emergency program act and requirements

[0:27:24] Voice 11: or recommendations under the public health act change

[0:27:27] Voice 11: regarding public attendance and trust body meetings.

[0:27:30] Voice 11: And that such meetings will be live streamed

[0:27:32] Voice 11: and the public invited to participate in meetings

[0:27:34] Voice 11: by connecting to the link or the phone number

[0:27:37] Voice 11: provided in the meeting notice

[0:27:38] Voice 11: in order to observe proceedings and speak when invited by the chair i'll second that and all

[0:27:46] Trustee Middleton: those in favor great that passes then okay so now now we're into i think the the big the bigger

[0:27:54] Trustee Middleton: big items obviously of the of the meeting so um the the interim working group the informal

[0:28:03] Trustee Middleton: working group prepared a document that was named the terms of reference the idea being that

[0:28:09] Trustee Middleton: this was the scope of work that an independent consultant would would take on to meet um meet

[0:28:15] Trustee Middleton: the objectives of um of an independent review um and obviously there's um that being the key

[0:28:25] Trustee Middleton: document moving forward there's this uh there's uh landing on uh an accurate terms of reference

[0:28:32] Trustee Middleton: that outlines the scope as we we can all uh hopefully all agree to in a sort of consensual

[0:28:37] Trustee Middleton: manner as a committee which then leads into how do we publicize that such that interested parties

[0:28:45] Trustee Middleton: would bid on the work and so that's the next item in the agenda but for right now it's basically the

[0:28:50] Trustee Middleton: scope of the work as identified in the the terms of reference and i know there's some discussion

[0:28:55] Trustee Middleton: around that so i'll just simply open it up for for for comment and

[0:29:06] Voice 12: uh i'd like to hear what the

[0:29:09] Voice 12: the cao has to say uh chair middleton because yeah this has been reviewed a number of times

[0:29:15] Voice 12: by others so uh a fresh face would be and view would be good i

[0:29:23] Voice 8: hope we're not logging who's

[0:29:24] Voice 8: talking the most at this meeting because uh it's ending up uh being myself so apologies to everybody

[0:29:31] Voice 8: um so mr chair i'm happy to make some comments i haven't had an opportunity to make public comments

[0:29:37] Voice 8: here. And I would ask that I be allowed to speak freely. Yes, absolutely. Okay. So what I'm going

[0:29:46] Voice 8: to offer you over the next five to 10 minutes is my view of your terms of reference. And I'll be

[0:29:54] Voice 8: clear and as clear as I possibly can and forthright. And it's for you to determine.

[0:30:00] Voice 8: and really to take this advice, and that will then lead you to the work that you need to have

[0:30:06] Voice 8: in front of you. If we hold that this is the terms of reference, I would say that

[0:30:13] Voice 8: this needs to be much, much better. At present, it has a number of challenges

[0:30:23] Voice 8: that I think need to be overcome in order for it to deliver what Trust Council, I believe,

[0:30:33] Voice 8: wants and this committee needs to have.

[0:30:36] Voice 8: And I'm going to go over what some of those things might be at present.

[0:30:41] Voice 8: So I'm operating off the assumption that, say, part two of this turns into a terms of

[0:30:46] Voice 8: reference most literally.

[0:30:48] Voice 8: And if that's not the case and you're going to do some further work and you've got it

[0:30:51] Voice 8: it planned, then I don't have to proceed. But let's just assume that that is the case right now.

[0:30:58] Voice 8: So if that was the case right now, I think that there needs to be a number of considerations,

[0:31:03] Voice 8: and I'll walk through them for you right here. The first is, I think there's a number of concepts

[0:31:12] Voice 8: that are confused inside the document that need to be unconfused or delineated more clearly

[0:31:18] Voice 8: in order for a proponent to be able to do the work and the first one is the notion that

[0:31:26] Voice 8: the premise on page seven says that we want to undertake a governance management and operations

[0:31:35] Voice 8: review but management and operations is not referred to again in the document and it moves to

[0:31:43] Voice 8: a discussion of advocacy and planning services so professional people who would read that would go

[0:31:51] Voice 8: which of our frameworks are we going through if it's indeed a management and operations review

[0:31:57] Voice 8: there needs to be some specific insight or recommendations or deliverables listed

[0:32:06] Voice 8: associated with those constructs, as opposed to overlaying the notion of governance advocacy

[0:32:14] Voice 8: and planning. I think that the governance question needs to have much more discussion

[0:32:24] Voice 8: or more nuanced questions, because at its first reading, is it the governance structure or

[0:32:31] Voice 8: process and i believe inside the document there's an interweaving of these two things

[0:32:38] Voice 8: the sentence that does the governance provide management oversight of the daily direction of

[0:32:44] Voice 8: the organization by definition that isn't governance that is management and operations

[0:32:50] Voice 8: what i think is being asked here is is the structure of governance appropriate for man

[0:32:58] Voice 8: for the overall direction of the organization. And the second two or three questions around

[0:33:07] Voice 8: governance are, what are some of the specifics you're looking at? It looks like you're asking

[0:33:14] Voice 8: questions that would beg the question of the Islands Trust Act. Is it those types of questions

[0:33:19] Voice 8: around the structure of the Islands Trust? And if so, that brings into question some elements of

[0:33:26] Voice 8: of the act? So I think that's a fundamental question that has to be clear inside this

[0:33:30] Voice 8: document. And then if it's not those things, what other governance elements are there? And I would

[0:33:38] Voice 8: suggest there's two or three that need to be added to this or clarified. The first is the local trust

[0:33:43] Voice 8: committee work programming. And who determines the load of work that is done by the Islands Trust?

[0:33:50] Voice 8: And what is the process associated for determining that? And the second is the, I don't think you've

[0:33:56] Voice 8: reflected the decision-making process itself at the islands trust nor are you asking questions

[0:34:02] Voice 8: about the decision-making process of elected officials at the islands trust if you're talking

[0:34:08] Voice 8: maybe you don't want to have that question but certainly when you say governance

[0:34:14] Voice 8: that the decision-making process has to live inside i would recommend live inside this in some

[0:34:18] Voice 8: way

[0:34:19] Voice 4: uh

[0:34:20] Voice 8: in terms of the writing um i'm i'm very respectful here i would say that there are a

[0:34:26] Voice 8: number of inaccuracies inside the document as it stands right now and perhaps that's no fault of

[0:34:31] Voice 8: anyone it probably they're all different minds coming to bear but the descriptions of the

[0:34:37] Voice 8: planning service the descriptions of advocacy um and the large preamble would need to have

[0:34:44] Voice 8: have corrections and I offer you this thought the islands trust is known for doing good work

[0:34:50] Voice 8: good professional work and having a high standard as it goes out into the public realm

[0:34:54] Voice 8: and I believe that we would all want that to be this to be of the highest standard or a

[0:34:59] Voice 8: reasonable standard as it moves out into the public realm and and that's the reason I bring

[0:35:06] Voice 8: these items forward. So one is the governance. I also believe that there is, if you read this,

[0:35:16] Voice 8: that you can tell that there is political intention inside some of the questions that are

[0:35:22] Voice 8: asked. So I think those should be moved outside the document. It's too easy to determine what

[0:35:31] Voice 8: exactly you want and a consultant will respond to you the way you want to be responded to.

[0:35:39] Voice 8: I can provide you a couple of examples of those but I don't know whether it helps us do that right

[0:35:44] Voice 8: now.

[0:35:45] Voice 12: I'd like to hear those examples if that's okay.

[0:35:48] Voice 8: There's a couple things. One is there's

[0:35:51] Voice 8: a sentence here that says it's noteworthy that 12 years on the Stantec recommendations to be brought

[0:35:56] Voice 8: into practice than those of the Fraser report. Any consultant will look at those things and

[0:36:01] Voice 8: some to come to some type of determination but sentences like that favor one approach over

[0:36:07] Voice 8: another and I think you want an outside observer to come in with an unbiased idea and determine

[0:36:13] Voice 8: those things and reflect them back to you so that's one the second question is a question

[0:36:18] Voice 8: associated with planning staff credentials and that speaks to the first conversation we had at

[0:36:25] Voice 8: the start of this meeting and that is oh I haven't got the exact right term wouldn't it be better if

[0:36:30] Voice 8: we didn't have urban planners well if we want to not um if we want to start the way um trustee

[0:36:42] Voice 8: wright brought it up at the start of this meeting by not by having everyone on board um i don't know

[0:36:48] Voice 8: whether that question uh constituted the way it is provides that the first couple of things i'd say

[0:36:54] Voice 8: with this is this. There's only six schools I know in Canada that provide purely rural land use

[0:37:02] Voice 8: planning degrees. Guelph, Dalhousie, UNBC, Simon Fraser, VIU, York and Waterloo. The rest, UBC,

[0:37:11] Voice 8: Alberta, Calgary, Queen's, Toronto, have combination degrees, which is the combination of community and

[0:37:17] Voice 8: regional planning accreditations. Those institutions have very strong rural elements associated with

[0:37:24] Voice 8: them and for your information many of our staff come from those institutions and in fact have

[0:37:32] Voice 8: rural regional planning degrees so that I would suggest that that question get some it certainly

[0:37:42] Voice 8: has had some attention from the staff overall but I said I suggest that be a more nuanced question

[0:37:48] Voice 8: as we move forward um so i so that would be um a second one and um

[0:37:56] Voice 12: can i understand where the

[0:37:57] Voice 12: political motive is the political intention in that i just i don't i don't understand where the

[0:38:03] Voice 12: political intention is in in that it's

[0:38:06] Voice 8: an it's an inaccuracy i guess it is so the the question

[0:38:09] Voice 8: that's being asked um is one that is it's it's inaccurate as it stands right now um it's it

[0:38:16] Voice 8: it suggests that the islands trust staff are urban planners and that is simply

[0:38:21] Voice 8: incorrect. So it suggests a perspective.

[0:38:27] Voice 8: And before

[0:38:27] Voice 4: you go, yeah.

[0:38:29] Voice 8: And before you go out to the street,

[0:38:31] Voice 8: I'd suggest tidying that up. So there's a couple versions of that.

[0:38:35] Voice 8: There's a couple versions of the overall script here is there's four or five

[0:38:40] Voice 8: pages. I'm assuming that would, you know,

[0:38:44] Voice 8: normally in an RFP process, there'd be a page.

[0:38:47] Voice 8: a page and a half, a little less than this. You don't want to provide more than is needed

[0:38:54] Voice 8: and it has to be concise. I would avoid yes or no questions. Do we hire the right planners,

[0:39:01] Voice 8: yes or no? Do we have performance measures, yes or no? I think you'd want to formulate questions

[0:39:07] Voice 8: that say if this is the case, please investigate this, please provide performance measures for the

[0:39:14] Voice 8: future that would be used for the organization or provide some information on current performance

[0:39:19] Voice 8: measures but not ask questions that could be readily answered quite quickly so there's a

[0:39:25] Voice 8: bit of a refinement associated with that as well i don't understand um a couple of things

[0:39:35] Voice 8: the notion of advocacy and planning is not clear here page nine are there better options in land

[0:39:44] Voice 8: use planning than having to rely on advocacy so i don't know

[0:39:50] Voice 8: exactly what that means but on the next

[0:39:52] Voice 8: page it says is a separation of planning activity and advocacy useful but of course the first

[0:39:58] Voice 8: question is is the opposite so those those two concepts have to be um clarified as to which one

[0:40:08] Voice 8: of those it is or clarity provided overall. I think that there needs to be some specific,

[0:40:19] Voice 8: not just questions, but deliverables added throughout the document that you could then

[0:40:26] Voice 8: measure success by when you're requesting that. So I think that this document's gotten to a certain

[0:40:31] Voice 8: level but it hasn't actually provided for some deliverables. Is the strategic plan an effective

[0:40:40] Voice 8: instrument to guide advocacy and planning within the trust? I think that would be difficult to

[0:40:49] Voice 8: answer. You might want to think about that a little bit more but I just don't think that's

[0:40:57] Voice 8: a discreet enough question. I think that there has to be some sort of consideration around

[0:41:13] Voice 8: the notion of whether you're looking for some potential change to structure or a

[0:41:21] Voice 8: relabeling of the notion of structure inside the document. So to summarize,

[0:41:28] Voice 8: eyes. The document has to be gone through by somebody and it be accurate. The descriptions

[0:41:36] Voice 8: be accurate. The description of advocacy just doesn't pass mustard at this point.

[0:41:43] Voice 8: In any instances where the reader can infer an intention should probably be refined.

[0:41:52] Voice 8: And finally, two or three key concepts I think have to be winnowed out a little bit more.

[0:41:58] Voice 8: that is the whole governance planning advocacy piece what do we really want from governance

[0:42:04] Voice 8: what do we want from planning what do we want from advocacy and whether or not management

[0:42:11] Voice 8: and operations are also concepts that we that need to be filled out so right now there's sort

[0:42:18] Voice 8: of too many competing ideas now I wrote this it didn't get much discussion at trust council and I

[0:42:24] Voice 8: I realized, you know, there was some momentum associated with the conversation and a lot of this, and that's fine.

[0:42:31] Voice 8: And I believe, just anecdotally, I talked with Chair Middleton as some of this was being provided, and I made some of those initial comments.

[0:42:43] Voice 8: So those are my first responses to the terms of reference.

[0:42:46] Voice 8: What I'd likely suggest is, I don't think it falls to me to take all of that on.

[0:42:52] Voice 8: I think that it probably would be a two-step process of this would get to be, I think, more successful, more focused, and more ultimately delivering what you and what Trust Council want.

[0:43:06] Voice 8: want if first there's a body or a group sits and refines these a little bit more and says

[0:43:13] Voice 8: what do we mean are we certain about this and then as one quick rewrite or one rewrite and

[0:43:21] Voice 8: then a second rewrite that puts into more technical languages and has more discrete

[0:43:25] Voice 8: deliverables at the end of the day so that you can indeed come to trust council and say

[0:43:29] Voice 8: here's what here's what we've asked for and here's what we've received I've got some other

[0:43:35] Voice 8: the comments that will come up around communication and those kinds of things um but for now those

[0:43:40] Voice 8: would be some of my initial reactions in terms of the terms and reference they're offer offered

[0:43:45] Voice 8: wholeheartedly um and in support of getting a good outcome i haven't written a report because

[0:43:50] Voice 8: this is your first meeting um and i haven't got that kind of level of analysis but um over the

[0:43:56] Voice 8: last month or two those those are my initial readings thanks mr chair thank

[0:44:02] Trustee Middleton: you ceo i appreciate

[0:44:03] Trustee Middleton: I appreciate that.

[0:44:04] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Critchley, please, the floor is yours.

[0:44:10] Trustee Critchley: Thank you.

[0:44:11] Trustee Critchley: So I take to heart your comments on that,

[0:44:17] Trustee Critchley: CEO Hudson-Piller.

[0:44:18] Trustee Critchley: I think it's very important that we do get this right,

[0:44:22] Trustee Critchley: that we have it as a piece of writing

[0:44:26] Trustee Critchley: that we can be happy with and that is not confusing

[0:44:31] Trustee Critchley: and that people on the receiving end of it

[0:44:33] Trustee Critchley: we'll understand what we're looking for. I do think that our product that was presented to

[0:44:40] Trustee Critchley: Trust Council is a bit of kind of the typical product of committees, you know, where you've

[0:44:47] Trustee Critchley: got a lot of people having input and then trying to synthesize it into one document and have

[0:44:54] Trustee Critchley: consistency and definitions and consistency and principles and so forth. So I quite understand

[0:45:02] Trustee Critchley: the criticisms. And I think we should proceed to another step to refine this. So the question is,

[0:45:12] Trustee Critchley: who? And it seems to me, yeah, we could either have a, you know, a smaller group of people,

[0:45:18] Trustee Critchley: and that could be or a one person, ideally. And that could occur either within staff or outside.

[0:45:27] Trustee Critchley: Now, I think because of the nature of this project, it should be some outside consultant type person who could sort of bring this all together and polish it up.

[0:45:40] Trustee Critchley: And I would wonder, first of all, whether other committee members here would agree with that as an interim step.

[0:45:49] Trustee Critchley: I see it as being something that's pretty much essential.

[0:45:52] Trustee Critchley: And I would also ask CEO Hudson-Piller if you have any suggestions of people who might be good candidates for a project like that to put this into a ship-shape order as an RFD.

[0:46:09] Voice 8: Well, I respectfully wouldn't recommend that approach.

[0:46:13] Voice 8: I think that the questions that at least I've asked need to be discussed by this group well before it gets into like administrative development.

[0:46:23] Voice 8: And I don't know whether you want to do an RFP or have a public process in order to have a further public process.

[0:46:29] Voice 8: That seems pretty bureaucratic.

[0:46:34] Voice 8: I think you have to have some honest conversations around the five or six key elements here and distill your best.

[0:46:43] Voice 8: uh intentions and um get some plain language around it and frankly it's the tough work that

[0:46:49] Voice 8: um you've this process is is a different process than normally would be the case you haven't had

[0:46:55] Voice 8: like reporting to guide you through this you've um kind of taken on some of the conceptual elements

[0:47:00] Voice 8: yourselves so now i think that you have to do some of the the tough work i don't think a consultant

[0:47:04] Voice 8: could help you determine what you mean by governance um at the allen's trust i think that

[0:47:11] Voice 8: that that has to be grappled with and of course trust council has said go do this and here are

[0:47:19] Voice 8: basically the parameters associated with it so it has to still be within the direction of trust

[0:47:24] Voice 8: council as a whole and they say you know go and figure out this work so I think some subgroup or

[0:47:35] Voice 8: someone has to take this and figure it out the staff can't do it because there's too

[0:47:39] Voice 8: it's political questions of what do we mean by this

[0:47:44] Voice 8: and what is truly our interest here

[0:47:46] Voice 8: and does reflect this opportunity to have this project.

[0:47:52] Voice 8: Now, at the end, if you ask me,

[0:47:55] Voice 8: I would like to see if this moves forward,

[0:47:58] Voice 8: something tangible.

[0:47:59] Voice 8: And the thing that I'd like to say,

[0:48:02] Voice 8: if let's just pretend someone asked,

[0:48:04] Voice 8: and I think Chair Middleton probably did,

[0:48:05] Voice 8: the workload that is directed by the islands trust committees and trust council far exceeds

[0:48:15] Voice 8: the resources associated with the organization and the list of projects is in the area of 150

[0:48:23] Voice 8: discrete projects that are on the record books so anyone who can come in and help with that idea

[0:48:28] Voice 8: um would be uh certainly would be um welcome and and uh provide some refractions or reflections

[0:48:38] Voice 8: the work we are currently doing at the organization is to try and address that

[0:48:42] Voice 8: through the rps renewal and these various things is to try and address the gulf between those

[0:48:47] Voice 8: things but reading the terms of reference it looks like you have the same interest but it's not

[0:48:52] Voice 8: explicit in here and i think that that is a big thing that should be um looked at

[0:49:01] Voice 12: so i'd like to

[0:49:03] Voice 12: speak chair yes so one of the things i mean uh russ you make some good points and i think um

[0:49:11] Voice 12: one of the reasons we frame the tor the way we did is because i believe there's confusion within

[0:49:18] Voice 12: the organization certainly within trustees as to where some of these rules lie there's confusion

[0:49:24] Voice 12: confusion as to where advocacy fits, where planning fits. The two are often dealing with

[0:49:33] Voice 12: the same type of subject. So we use advocacy sometimes, we use planning sometimes, and there

[0:49:39] Voice 12: is some confusion around that. In respect of governance, there are a number of governance

[0:49:47] Voice 12: issues in the organization or concerns or dilemmas, whatever you want to call them.

[0:49:53] Voice 12: Yes, some of them are within the Islands Trust Act. That's our belief. Some of them are within the Local Government Act. These aren't necessarily things that we expect management staff or trustees to solve, but it would be something to flag to government to make us, this whole process is to make the trust more effective or more efficient or confirm that it is as effective and efficient as it can possibly be.

[0:50:22] Voice 12: So some of the ways we might deal with this is just provide an example or two in an appendices, not necessarily leading or providing political commentary, but just showing where there may be some some confusion.

[0:50:40] Voice 12: I think it's a very good thing that you brought up the fact that we managed somehow to burden our staff with an immense number of projects.

[0:50:52] Voice 12: And I think there is probably some structure that somebody could look at that would perhaps minimize the bloat of projects and plans and the like that bedevils the trust and I'm sure frustrates the staff trying to do too much with too little time.

[0:51:14] Voice 12: So, yeah, there's some good clarity that can that can happen here. If additional clarity is required prior to a management consulting firm coming into the organization. So direction, not politically motivated, not staff motivated, just examples. My thoughts.

[0:51:37] Trustee Middleton: okay thank you trustee brandon welcome uh trustee morrison i see you've joined us thank you

[0:51:44] Trustee Middleton: um we had an election that for good or ill named me as chair and uh and um

[0:51:54] Trustee Middleton: uh trustee kale is the vice chair and uh we're basically just in the agenda

[0:52:03] Trustee Middleton: i'm just reading the title above his head which is of course

[0:52:08] Trustee Middleton: my apologies um and um yeah we're at we're basically discussing the terms of reference

[0:52:17] Trustee Middleton: and i think um the uh the ceo gave us um you know certainly food for thought in terms of how

[0:52:24] Trustee Middleton: it's laid out and how we might proceed and move forward um i i think just as an editorial note

[0:52:31] Trustee Middleton: here we knew that that terms of reference document was basically the enabling piece

[0:52:35] Trustee Middleton: that allowed council to see what it is in a in a kind of an overall manner what what we were

[0:52:42] Trustee Middleton: seeking and what we were seeking to go out to the market to to have reviewed with the understanding

[0:52:48] Trustee Middleton: understanding that um um obviously to prepare a bid package to go on BC bid this sort of standardized

[0:52:57] Trustee Middleton: templating that one needs to use that would more precisely define the deliverables so one of the

[0:53:04] Trustee Middleton: things I think that we could potentially do because there's some question about okay how do we revise

[0:53:08] Trustee Middleton: this terms of reference how do we clarify it how do we um who does that work um I I would suggest

[0:53:15] Trustee Middleton: suggest that maybe we edit for inaccuracies as the CAO pointed out, things are just simply

[0:53:23] Trustee Middleton: not true or incorrect, leave the terms of reference doctrine be and then distill out

[0:53:28] Trustee Middleton: of it precisely what we want into the templating that BC BID will provide us. And that gives

[0:53:34] Trustee Middleton: us basically the BID package, the specific deliverables with some of the clarity that

[0:53:39] Trustee Middleton: russ has spoken about that's required and then also allows vcbid to prepare the program evaluation

[0:53:46] Trustee Middleton: manual such that um the uh the uh proponent can be uh chosen on the merits that we we lay out so

[0:53:54] Trustee Middleton: that's kind of a broad suggestion of how to move forward i i don't know if anyone else has any

[0:53:59] Trustee Middleton: comments with you know that take that for what it is an editorial comment but certainly we don't

[0:54:03] Trustee Middleton: have to do that but in any stretch we could do something totally different but i thought that

[0:54:07] Trustee Middleton: might be a way where we move forward we can get everybody's input to as much as possible

[0:54:12] Trustee Middleton: aligned on consensus as far as the questions are useful and accurate that would go to market um

[0:54:19] Trustee Middleton: without having to rehash a document that admittedly we've been over quite a few times

[0:54:25] Trustee Middleton: and i think trustee critchley's uh points about sort of the committee nature of its um genesis

[0:54:30] Trustee Middleton: are quite accurate and i think trustee kale pointed out that we are in danger of creating

[0:54:36] Trustee Middleton: in designing a racehorse by committee,

[0:54:39] Trustee Middleton: we're in danger of creating sort of a hobbled mule

[0:54:42] Trustee Middleton: kind of thing.

[0:54:43] Trustee Middleton: And I think if we took a fresh approach

[0:54:46] Trustee Middleton: using the terms of reference document,

[0:54:48] Trustee Middleton: and we may even just call it the reference document

[0:54:52] Trustee Middleton: and to actually create specific deliverables

[0:54:56] Trustee Middleton: that we can be satisfied with and move forward on,

[0:54:59] Trustee Middleton: then that might be a preferred way

[0:55:01] Trustee Middleton: to achieve our objectives here.

[0:55:03] Trustee Middleton: But open to discussion on that, like I say,

[0:55:05] Trustee Middleton: just my editorial comment on on one way to proceed and uh trustee kale and trustee brent have their

[0:55:17] Voice 9: yeah i i'm firstly uh thank you uh russ for your your comments uh i appreciate uh what you've put

[0:55:26] Voice 9: um i i think i'm gonna just go back to to basics when when the group reviewed the terms of

[0:55:32] Voice 9: reference basically we recognize that you know like so many of these quite complicated documents

[0:55:38] Voice 9: would it be absolutely perfect well it's designed by a group and there's always something to say

[0:55:44] Voice 9: about everything of this nature that that's offered up nevertheless the basic question most

[0:55:51] Voice 9: of the people asked in the group is is it fit for purpose would it be sufficient to guide a

[0:55:58] Voice 9: a consultant, who would then in turn,

[0:56:01] Voice 9: ask us for clarification on some of the points raised,

[0:56:06] Voice 9: probably during the interview process

[0:56:09] Voice 9: and after being selected.

[0:56:12] Voice 9: I'm extremely nervous of tampering with this document

[0:56:15] Voice 9: in any way, shape or form.

[0:56:18] Voice 9: I think it will lose the trust

[0:56:20] Voice 9: and it is also the document that was approved.

[0:56:23] Voice 9: It is the document we own.

[0:56:25] Voice 9: so imperfect it may be i honestly would like to see it go forward i'd like to see it go forward

[0:56:33] Voice 9: uh basically unchanged i think enough expert eyes have looked at this and if they had seen

[0:56:41] Voice 9: any egregious errors or absolutely unsupportable aspects we as a group preparing it would have

[0:56:50] Voice 9: been informed. So if I was to simply prepare a motion it would be to proceed with the document

[0:56:58] Voice 9: owned by us all and during the process of selection and after selection we would clarify

[0:57:07] Voice 9: some of the outstanding points. I just am extremely opposed to going back and starting again

[0:57:17] Voice 9: and messing with this document and frankly losing months in the process and uh just frankly it was

[0:57:26] Voice 9: the one thing that concerned me uh that we would lose the thrust the go forward should that happen

[0:57:34] Voice 9: and i think i hate to say it but i think it would and i'm extremely nervous that we won't have

[0:57:40] Voice 9: undertaken the mandate which was very clear in the motion that was passed

[0:57:45] Voice 9: embedded in which is these are these terms of reference so uh i'm speaking out for letting it

[0:57:53] Voice 9: go as it is working with the management consultants that we interview working with

[0:57:59] Voice 9: the management consultants we hire and during that process uh clarifying the the points that

[0:58:06] Voice 9: they as an articulate third party obviously will raise please don't please let us don't leave

[0:58:13] Voice 9: lose all the work that we have done in getting this far because that is what I see happening

[0:58:20] Voice 9: and that's what I really fear so I hope we won't because it would be a dreadful shame and I think

[0:58:27] Voice 9: it would be misplacing trust in those people who voted for this motion and for these terms of

[0:58:35] Voice 9: reference because that is what they voted for and that is what we now own so for better or for worse

[0:58:41] Voice 9: us recognizing, no, not perfect. Let's proceed, please, and not be sidetracked. Thank you, Chair.

[0:58:50] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Trustee Kahle and Trustee Brent, followed by Trustee Wright. You're muted, Paul.

[0:59:07] Trustee Middleton: You're still muted. You have, in fact, disappeared. There you are.

[0:59:17] Voice 12: Okay. Are you there?

[0:59:19] Voice 12: You're good. Yeah. Sorry about that. You know, Trustee Kahle has a very good point. This was

[0:59:25] Voice 12: This document's been reviewed by a number of professionals, including one of the leading management companies in Canada, if not worldwide, by one of their senior partners and others who are familiar with this.

[0:59:40] Voice 12: And often terms of reference aren't exactly precise, which is why this elected proponent will often have, almost always, have a discussion about the terms and more clarification after they are selected.

[0:59:57] Voice 12: What really concerns me, and again...

[1:00:00] Voice 12: Michael has brought this up is, you know, there are people that are going to be suggesting,

[1:00:04] Voice 12: oh, we're not following what we agreed to do.

[1:00:07] Voice 12: I believe we already have one trustee who is waiting in, calling as of about 35 minutes

[1:00:14] Voice 12: ago, which is amazing, that this is a total farce because we've not followed the process.

[1:00:22] Voice 12: So that's a real concern.

[1:00:24] Voice 12: And it's live right now.

[1:00:27] Voice 12: all you have to do is look at your your comments under the chat and you'll see one of the trustees

[1:00:33] Voice 12: calling us calling this process right now that we're engaging in a farce so I think the

[1:00:40] Voice 12: sorry guys this process is a farce given that you've already stepped far outside the terms

[1:00:45] Voice 12: of reference presented to council in December and that was sent I think 37 minutes ago so

[1:00:51] Voice 12: I'd hardly think we discussed much of anything so there's a real sensitivity that we have to

[1:00:56] Voice 12: to watch here in terms of changing this.

[1:01:00] Voice 12: My comment, thanks.

[1:01:04] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Trustee Brennan, Trustee Wright

[1:01:06] Trustee Middleton: and then followed by Trustee Luckham is next to speak

[1:01:10] Trustee Middleton: and then followed by Trustee Longrace.

[1:01:14] Voice 3: Yeah, I appreciate what Rosa said and I take it seriously

[1:01:21] Voice 3: because I think his comments make sense.

[1:01:24] Voice 3: How to arrive at what he is referring to,

[1:01:27] Voice 3: I think does not necessitate a reconstruction of the entire document. I think at some point

[1:01:37] Voice 3: any person that takes on this contract is going to have questions and I'm not really sure whether

[1:01:42] Voice 3: we can write the perfect document that is going to answer all of the questions that they may have

[1:01:47] Voice 3: or the interpretations of that document that they may have. So whether they ask three questions or

[1:01:52] Voice 3: or whether they ask 30, I think is a relatively moot point.

[1:01:56] Voice 3: And I'm assuming that there will be at some point

[1:01:59] Voice 3: when we sit down with the contractor

[1:02:01] Voice 3: that we can clarify or respond to some of the questions

[1:02:06] Voice 3: and also reiterate some of Russ's concerns

[1:02:11] Voice 3: to the contractors to avoid certain holes

[1:02:15] Voice 3: that we don't want him to go into.

[1:02:17] Voice 3: I'm not really too concerned

[1:02:20] Voice 3: about how this looks to the public.

[1:02:27] Voice 3: And I regret if there's some misinterpretation

[1:02:30] Voice 3: or some feelings of negativity about this document

[1:02:34] Voice 3: because that was certainly not the intention

[1:02:36] Voice 3: of anyone that I know of on the committee.

[1:02:40] Voice 3: But I think there are criticisms

[1:02:43] Voice 3: and I just think we have to face them.

[1:02:45] Voice 3: And I think perhaps we can deal with that

[1:02:48] Voice 3: when we proceed with the contractor.

[1:02:51] Voice 3: So my sense is that if we go backwards

[1:02:57] Voice 3: and reconstitute this thing,

[1:02:59] Voice 3: we are going to fall so far behind in our timeline

[1:03:03] Voice 3: that we may end up not completing this project

[1:03:06] Voice 3: within our term of office.

[1:03:08] Voice 3: And I'd certainly like to see that done.

[1:03:11] Voice 3: My feeling is that if there are real significant issues

[1:03:16] Voice 3: issues that are extended to us by the contractor that they believe also that we need to revisit

[1:03:25] Voice 3: this whole terms of reference, then I think that's the time to make a decision.

[1:03:29] Voice 3: Otherwise, I'd have to agree with Michael that we proceed.

[1:03:33] Voice 3: Thank you.

[1:03:34] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[1:03:36] Trustee Middleton: And Trustee Luckin, please.

[1:03:37] Trustee Middleton: Yeah.

[1:03:42] Trustee Luckham: I'm struggling a little bit here because I believe this document needs review

[1:03:49] Trustee Luckham: before it goes out for tender. And my perspective here, and just a straight read on this

[1:04:02] Trustee Luckham: with the content as it is um is a proposition this document is a proposition to counsel

[1:04:12] Trustee Luckham: laying out uh a desire um and how it would unfold and and within that is uh and and so

[1:04:25] Trustee Luckham: So fundamentally, that moment in time has passed.

[1:04:29] Trustee Luckham: And so contextually, in terms of the delivery of this now to the next party, being those

[1:04:38] Trustee Luckham: that might choose to bid on it, it needs to be brought into the current realm.

[1:04:44] Trustee Luckham: And that this isn't a proposition to council now, it's a request for proposals.

[1:04:51] Trustee Luckham: And at a minimum, that needs to be done.

[1:04:55] Trustee Luckham: And there are some, I've got a number of notes with this

[1:05:01] Trustee Luckham: that I think needs to place the context of this ask

[1:05:08] Trustee Luckham: more representative or more accurately

[1:05:12] Trustee Luckham: of where we are at today

[1:05:16] Trustee Luckham: and what it is that we're asking for.

[1:05:22] Trustee Luckham: I think that there's elements of this

[1:05:25] Trustee Luckham: that simply don't need to be in it and that um item any professional is going to do his own level

[1:05:31] Trustee Luckham: of research and we can provide them pointers to where they can find out things uh about for

[1:05:37] Trustee Luckham: instance the honest trust conservancy it's not part of the terms of reference it's not part of

[1:05:41] Trustee Luckham: the project um that could be eliminated from the document in order to not make it lengthy and make

[1:05:49] Trustee Luckham: make it unclear about what it is that we may or may not be asking. I agree with the CAO that there

[1:05:55] Trustee Luckham: are some statements and assumptions in here around urban planners, municipal planning,

[1:06:04] Trustee Luckham: conservation areas, and other just touching on those, happy to expand upon them as you see

[1:06:10] Trustee Luckham: appropriate. But I do think it's critical that it be revised to this now, this new stage that

[1:06:22] Trustee Luckham: we're in, which is the finalization of terms of reference to be submitted for contenders to bid

[1:06:32] Trustee Luckham: on and i don't believe that that would go outside the uh the broad uh permission or

[1:06:40] Trustee Luckham: ask that trust council has provided you the direction for i'm so honestly i think you're

[1:06:47] Trustee Luckham: safe there regardless of comments that may come um there i too am concerned about some of the

[1:07:01] Trustee Luckham: assumptions, analogies, characterizations of advocacy versus local planning services,

[1:07:10] Trustee Luckham: and even the notion of advocacy itself. Because advocacy, being the primary advocator often,

[1:07:19] Trustee Luckham: advocacy is much broader than what is characterized in this document. And certainly

[1:07:27] Trustee Luckham: Certainly that might come up in interviews with the consultant as the consultant goes through this, of which I understand is part of the process that they would be undertaking.

[1:07:43] Trustee Luckham: However, I think that, you know, the idea just came up a moment ago about that there may be questions of clarity about this document.

[1:07:51] Trustee Luckham: I don't know how the procurement process works about how those questions of clarity get answered during the bidding process, because if a contractor comes to us with questions of clarity, one or two might be fine.

[1:08:06] Trustee Luckham: if there's 10 or 20 or 30, then having been a contractor in the past and did not clarify

[1:08:14] Trustee Luckham: certain details prior to bidding on the contract, you end up in a place where,

[1:08:20] Trustee Luckham: oh, I didn't bid on that. And I'm not including that in the report. And if that is some

[1:08:25] Trustee Luckham: substantive information or outcomes that we're looking for, then we're not going to get the

[1:08:31] Trustee Luckham: report that we want. And I think that in terms of timing, if this isn't a terms of reference

[1:08:41] Trustee Luckham: that clearly defines what it is that we want out of this process, then it's a complete

[1:08:47] Trustee Luckham: disservice to council. We need to be sure that this document and the ask, I think that's

[1:08:53] Trustee Luckham: what I come around to, what are we asking the contractor for here and how we enabling

[1:08:59] Trustee Luckham: enabling him to come to the conclusions that he or she might, then we need to take the time to do

[1:09:10] Trustee Luckham: that. And so, you know, it's interesting, we haven't actually allocated a meeting schedule

[1:09:15] Trustee Luckham: at this point yet. I'm not afraid to spend as much time as is necessary to maintain the schedule

[1:09:21] Trustee Luckham: that you have in order to be sure that we're advancing this appropriately I have

[1:09:31] Trustee Luckham: lots of other thoughts and questions I had anticipated we would go through this

[1:09:35] Trustee Luckham: document and and polish and and make it ready for a procurement process thank

[1:09:45] Trustee Middleton: you Trustee Leckham and I think Vice Chair Langrace followed by I believe

[1:09:50] Trustee Middleton: I believe CEO Hudson-Piller and then Trustee Morrison.

[1:09:58] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, okay.

[1:09:59] Voice 11: Yeah, for myself, I agree with what Trustee Kahle said

[1:10:04] Voice 11: about this is the document that we approved.

[1:10:07] Voice 11: I certainly recognize some of the comments

[1:10:11] Voice 11: that have been made by CEO Houghton-Spiller

[1:10:14] Voice 11: and Trustee Luckum.

[1:10:16] Voice 11: I think there's possibility to make some minor

[1:10:21] Voice 11: of clarification like urban planning taking out the word urban i mean it seems to be a trigger

[1:10:27] Voice 11: point i you know i think that's that doesn't change the scope of what we're intending to do

[1:10:33] Voice 11: and i think we have to stay within that scope what our intent is and make some minor possibly

[1:10:39] Voice 11: some minor wording changes but not change the actual direction and scope um i certainly want

[1:10:47] Voice 11: to think about some of the comments that have been made by Russ and by Peter. And

[1:10:54] Voice 11: it's sometimes hard to incorporate new ideas that are suddenly presented.

[1:11:01] Voice 11: You know, had we got comments a few months ago on some of our terminology, we might have been able

[1:11:08] Voice 11: to address it. So this is the difficulty when you get thrown things at you that come out of

[1:11:17] Voice 11: the blue um so i'm i'm don't want to jeopardize the scope of what we've established i think maybe

[1:11:27] Voice 11: some minor wording changes as possible to stay within the framework and as you say this is a

[1:11:34] Voice 11: high level a document it was in the introduction about it a high level terms of reference so i

[1:11:40] Voice 11: think there may be some possibility but we have to use caution or else we're going to go out

[1:11:45] Voice 11: straight outside of the terms of reference

[1:11:48] Voice 11: and end up having to go back to Trust Council

[1:11:51] Voice 11: because, you know, we changed what Trust Council had approved.

[1:11:57] Voice 11: That's the danger there.

[1:12:00] Voice 11: Thank

[1:12:02] Trustee Middleton: you, Vice-Chair Langer.

[1:12:03] Trustee Middleton: Vice-CEO Hudson-Peller, please.

[1:12:05] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[1:12:06] Trustee Middleton: So I'll just be super clear.

[1:12:08] Voice 8: I'm strongly recommending this document is not of a quality

[1:12:12] Voice 8: that represents the Islands Trust.

[1:12:14] Voice 8: trust and I don't I'm recommending it does not go out in this form you will vote as you see see fit

[1:12:19] Voice 8: um this isn't minor surgery um developing an RFP is not a process of natural selection whereby

[1:12:28] Voice 8: some guys come in and we have discussions and then slowly we winnow out $75,000 of value

[1:12:34] Voice 8: it is a process of being as clear as possible so that you get what you need and the terms this is

[1:12:43] Voice 8: a high level um terms of reference automatically assumes something else has to happen so i'll read

[1:12:51] Voice 8: you from page three of your terms of reference once council approves this review a project

[1:12:56] Voice 8: steering committee will be struck as outlined in this document the steering committee will then

[1:13:00] Voice 8: supervise the preparation of a bid package that will more articulate the timing and specifications

[1:13:06] Voice 8: specifications of deliverables. So I don't think anyone would say that this literally, word for

[1:13:13] Voice 8: word, is what you want. And really, you want it so that you get a better consultant, not

[1:13:24] Voice 8: choose the one who looks pretty good, and then have a process of Socratic inquiry to end up

[1:13:32] Voice 8: having your actual deliverables at the end of the day so i i i think some work would not hurt

[1:13:42] Voice 8: and i don't think it um it tests the um the base of this but you know just just so you're aware i

[1:13:50] Voice 8: won't keep harping on this this is this is my chance to say this to you um and to do my level

[1:13:57] Voice 8: best for the organization and that's what i feel i've done um and you know now it's now we'll go

[1:14:03] Voice 8: go forwards um as as you see fit but uh i don't think this is a matter of some tweaking i think

[1:14:10] Voice 8: that there's a there's an issue of quality and an issue of clarity um that should be brought to

[1:14:16] Voice 8: bear thank

[1:14:17] Trustee Middleton: you very much thank you ceo appreciate that and uh trustee morrison thanks

[1:14:22] Voice 5: so i apologize

[1:14:24] Voice 5: first for being late i'll catch up on the recording afterwards i had a work emergency

[1:14:28] Voice 5: see um so um so i hear what's happening i think of this terms of reference as a terms of reference

[1:14:40] Voice 5: for our work together um and for guiding us the clear guidance that we have approval from the

[1:14:48] Voice 5: council for i don't necessarily think of this term of reference as the bid package the bid package to

[1:14:56] Voice 5: me is something that we refine from this terms of reference and we stay within the bumpers of

[1:15:02] Voice 5: this terms of reference but that is refined from it um in the form that needs to be for bc bid

[1:15:09] Voice 5: that is like narrower perhaps like in terms of like there's a bunch of language in here

[1:15:14] Voice 5: about committee structure for this committee we don't need there's like because that's not

[1:15:18] Voice 5: relevant for the bitter um and so i think that and if there are it sounded to me like from

[1:15:24] Voice 5: from the conversation so far as potentially a couple of errors in terms of

[1:15:29] Voice 5: communication and clarity.

[1:15:31] Voice 5: Those to me are things that don't compromise the mandate we've been given by

[1:15:36] Voice 5: the council,

[1:15:37] Voice 5: but their clarity so that what we get back in our package are,

[1:15:42] Voice 5: are deliverables from the consultants are what we're looking for,

[1:15:46] Voice 5: like in terms of a clear set of guidance and principles.

[1:15:50] Voice 5: principles. So I don't see this package as the thing that I necessarily want to hand out to the

[1:15:57] Voice 5: consultant, because there is a lot of extraneous stuff in here that is can be stripped out and

[1:16:02] Voice 5: doesn't need to be there. I do want to make sure and we as a committee have the opportunity to do

[1:16:07] Voice 5: that to iterate on the bid package. So it's not like we're going to send the bid package is going

[1:16:11] Voice 5: to go off and become some mysterious document that we don't agree with, we can like, you know,

[1:16:16] Voice 5: know, go through that ad infinitum, if we want to. And I do hear what Trustee Kale is talking about

[1:16:22] Voice 5: with time, I think that is a real concern. And possibly the biggest concern that is if we

[1:16:27] Voice 5: go into a like create a bid package that we still can manage this timeline. I'm hearing that that is

[1:16:33] Voice 5: and maybe I don't know, Russ, if I totally caught how you think about the timeline. But

[1:16:38] Voice 5: But it does seem to me that we can make that timeline with the current what's laid out

[1:16:45] Voice 5: here.

[1:16:46] Voice 5: But if that's the issue, maybe that's what we need to clarify.

[1:16:49] Voice 5: If we take it into a new form of BC bid that is reflective of everything that's in here,

[1:16:55] Voice 5: but like in the polished sort of refined version of it, is it an issue of that we're not going

[1:17:00] Voice 5: to make our timeline?

[1:17:01] Voice 5: Is that the crux of the problem?

[1:17:03] Voice 5: Or do people just not want to move a word from here to there?

[1:17:06] Voice 5: like what which piece is the problem i guess is what i'm trying to understand um

[1:17:12] Trustee Middleton: if i can i'll

[1:17:14] Trustee Middleton: jump in is that the timeline is not so much the issue we talked about that a little bit the the

[1:17:18] Trustee Middleton: timeline as uh you'll find in the the meeting packages perhaps a tad aggressive now for for

[1:17:24] Trustee Middleton: where we actually are in january and and just in terms of the bid cycle um we we said that if the

[1:17:31] Trustee Middleton: the bid package is not prepared even until early March and is out for review for 30 days,

[1:17:40] Trustee Middleton: we will still be able to make a decision and start relatively soon and start a new fiscal

[1:17:45] Trustee Middleton: year by say April 15th or so. Then to be

[1:17:48] Trustee Middleton: honest, there's a bit of an advantage of being slightly

[1:17:49] Trustee Middleton: late as some of you may be aware, government spends on unspent budget in a flurry of requests

[1:17:56] Trustee Middleton: for proposals towards the end of the fiscal year and so

[1:17:59] Trustee Middleton: if ours is slightly later we you know we

[1:18:01] Trustee Middleton: kind of get fresh eyes because we're actually not part of that uh of that kind of last-minute

[1:18:06] Trustee Middleton: budget spend on behalf of government so it's not really a timing issue i think if i can summarize

[1:18:12] Trustee Middleton: and please correct me if i'm wrong it's more a discomfort with changing the wording of the terms

[1:18:17] Trustee Middleton: of reference and going outside uh what uh intent was approved by council

[1:18:23] Voice 4: perhaps if

[1:18:25] Trustee Middleton: i could go to

[1:18:25] Trustee Middleton: another level of then being vulnerable to have the motion threatened because the actual wording

[1:18:32] Trustee Middleton: has changed beyond what was approved. And that's the fear, whether it's a real fear or not,

[1:18:37] Trustee Middleton: not for me to say, but that's, I think, the crux.

[1:18:40] Voice 5: Okay. So maybe if I could just speak to that

[1:18:43] Voice 5: particular issue, that is the crux. So for that particular issue, from my perspective, if we are

[1:18:49] Voice 5: the committee that's constituted to enact this piece, I know that this is a contentious piece,

[1:18:55] Voice 5: but it is now a motion of council it's happening I'm not debating that with anyone and so like we

[1:19:01] Voice 5: can go ahead and and make sure that we stay within the bounds that's our job to like govern each

[1:19:07] Voice 5: other and to make sure we stay within the bounds of this particular set of terms of reference as

[1:19:12] Voice 5: they get refined into a request for a proposal and we do the the best that we need to do to do that

[1:19:19] Voice 5: and so I feel good about calling people if we go outside that or if we don't keep to the

[1:19:25] Voice 5: expansiveness of what's in here um and I feel fine in arguing that with anybody else in council

[1:19:32] Voice 5: if they have a problem with that so I think that's all I have to say

[1:19:35] Trustee Middleton: okay thanks trustee

[1:19:38] Trustee Middleton: morrison trustee locum please go ahead yeah

[1:19:41] Trustee Luckham: so I agree with um uh trustee morrison um I think we

[1:19:45] Trustee Luckham: can stay in the bounds the broad concepts that are encapsulated here and i don't have any um

[1:19:53] Trustee Luckham: question about that or or considerations for that i i think that what i want to do is provide

[1:20:01] Trustee Luckham: be sure that we're providing the greatest amount of clarity to the bidders so that we can get a

[1:20:06] Trustee Luckham: broad spectrum of bidders that um that will come to us with potential ideas um with a level of

[1:20:13] Trustee Luckham: comfort that they can also do some great work for us and I just think it needs contextually

[1:20:22] Trustee Luckham: straightening out and as I said earlier I think this document was intended for council

[1:20:27] Trustee Luckham: it got us to here and now we take this as a body to refine and you know expand or contract some of

[1:20:36] Trustee Luckham: of the elements of it that are just simply not necessary

[1:20:41] Trustee Luckham: to be in a document of this sort in my view.

[1:20:47] Trustee Luckham: So thank you, Trustee Morrison.

[1:20:50] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Trustee Luckman, Trustee Kaye.

[1:20:53] Trustee Middleton: I think it's Trustee Cahill's next.

[1:20:55] Trustee Middleton: Yep, we'll recognize Trustee Cahill, please.

[1:20:58] Voice 9: Yeah, thank you.

[1:20:59] Voice 9: In terms of contracting or whatever to this document,

[1:21:02] Voice 9: this is a document we hold in trust.

[1:21:04] Voice 9: This was a document that was voted on early, early December, and this is a document we

[1:21:12] Voice 9: should we should be carrying forward.

[1:21:14] Voice 9: And I'm just really concerned and I think other people who who may be voted for this

[1:21:20] Voice 9: who are not here at this meeting would say, we will lose the thrust of this if it goes

[1:21:27] Voice 9: goes out and and subject to being changed and altered and I really I just I just feel we will

[1:21:34] Voice 9: lose it um the the there will be some understandings reached using this terms of reference

[1:21:41] Voice 9: with the consultants through as I said the the interview and through after after appointed

[1:21:49] Voice 9: appointed, and I just think it's going to get lost in endless meetings. I think it should go

[1:21:58] Voice 9: to BC BID, any changes that they want to make, if they make any changes at all, although I don't

[1:22:04] Voice 9: think they will, and then we will be discussing it with them, and we can do it at that time.

[1:22:12] Voice 9: I personally do not want to see this document we hold to take forward being subject to alterations.

[1:22:23] Trustee Middleton: Thank you Trustee Cahill and then Trustee Luckman and then Trustee Brent.

[1:22:28] Trustee Middleton: Then I'll have a few words following Trustee Brent. So Trustee Luckman please.

[1:22:34] Trustee Luckham: Sure, I would like to ask perhaps the CAO might be able to advise us on the process because

[1:22:43] Trustee Luckham: Because I just heard Trustee Cahill say that we should advance this and through the interviewing and the procurement of the contract that we can clarify things.

[1:22:56] Trustee Luckham: And then questions about BC Bids' ability to make any alterations or not.

[1:23:02] Trustee Luckham: It strikes me that that wouldn't be the case.

[1:23:04] Trustee Luckham: but um um i had another thought there but it's essentially around the procurement process and

[1:23:13] Trustee Luckham: that we create this document it goes under the table and let's say six people bid on it um

[1:23:18] Trustee Luckham: normally when you do a bidding you tell me how it works normally i won't what i think yeah sure i

[1:23:27] Voice 8: think this will be informative to you um so this is a very prescriptive process and um i've been

[1:23:34] Voice 8: in touch with bc bid and i've got a contact there who will be the person that um works this through

[1:23:40] Voice 8: the process and she's already been provided that direction from her um from the organization

[1:23:47] Voice 8: and her quote is if i was given a complete scope of work that i would get the documents drafted

[1:23:53] Voice 8: in a couple of weeks and the generally the process at hand would be one of the scope of work is

[1:24:00] Voice 8: developed by the client that's the islands trust so that is filled in they have no interest or ideas

[1:24:09] Voice 8: about crafting a scope of work they see everything in the whole world right so the scope of work is

[1:24:15] Voice 8: the responsibility of the client um they would then help draft the rfp um and get some of the

[1:24:21] Voice 8: specifics associated with that based on the scope of work so would refine it um following that the

[1:24:27] Voice 8: development of the evaluation criteria. And then there aren't interviews, as suggested so far.

[1:24:35] Voice 8: This is just you establish a series of criteria. And then an evaluation handbook is created by BC

[1:24:44] Voice 8: BID, which is then provided to the organization. And the organization selects the appropriate

[1:24:51] Voice 8: candidate. Usually interviews aren't part of the process. It's a scored process. Let's say 10%

[1:24:58] Voice 8: presentation, 35% relevant experience, 25% their proposal. So that proposal is based, of course,

[1:25:11] Voice 8: on the scope of work. Hence, some of my comments earlier in the day. And other than that, it stays

[1:25:19] Voice 8: up for four weeks and um they'll just manage the um the process through the various um

[1:25:27] Voice 8: tasks that need to happen but they don't provide insight into preference or into scope elements

[1:25:39] Voice 8: unless something was obviously not missing hopefully that's helpful thank

[1:25:45] Trustee Middleton: you yes thank you

[1:25:46] Trustee Middleton: yeah and trustee luckham did did you have any further comments or we you uh will you finish

[1:25:54] Trustee Middleton: and if so we'll move on to well

[1:25:56] Trustee Luckham: no i i'm i'm hoping that we can continue to um discuss this

[1:26:01] Trustee Luckham: and come to some uh amicable uh as you suggested consensus model of revising this and respecting

[1:26:11] Trustee Luckham: everything that everybody has said and the concerns that they have with respect to that

[1:26:17] Trustee Luckham: I'll just reiterate. Thank you for the prompt. To be quite honest, and I take full responsibility

[1:26:29] Trustee Luckham: for this part of it, I think that, and it doesn't change the decision, right? I don't want to say

[1:26:40] Trustee Luckham: anything about that the outcome would have been any different, but there was too little time

[1:26:45] Trustee Luckham: for discussion. A number of trustees felt in the decision-making process it was all or nothing,

[1:26:54] Trustee Luckham: and so there were many that felt there were potentially room for amendments. However,

[1:27:01] Trustee Luckham: they chose not to do that, and that's where I take responsibility from a pressure of time

[1:27:07] Trustee Luckham: to get the business done, and that maybe there might have been, and I think that there are

[1:27:11] Trustee Luckham: Are trustees that would support some revision to this document to make it more robust in terms of soliciting the individuals that might choose to take this on and provide us a response in a respectful manner.

[1:27:26] Trustee Luckham: So I continue to think of that and I've now focused and turned my mind to the scope of work, and I don't really see that scope of work defined in here. And I think that's an important point.

[1:27:38] Trustee Luckham: Thank

[1:27:40] Trustee Middleton: you, Trustee Luckham. Next, does Trustee Brent follow like Trustee Morrison?

[1:27:46] Voice 12: There are elements of the scope of work here. You've got to remember,

[1:27:49] Voice 12: there hasn't been enough time for this. There has been impetus to have the trust reviewed

[1:27:56] Voice 12: for over seven years. There has always been resistance.

[1:28:03] Voice 12: um uh and and uh you know there there have been comments made by many including public comments

[1:28:10] Voice 12: most recently um in terms of you know it's never the right time it's never this it's never that so

[1:28:15] Voice 12: you know we have been going over this for a long time and so maybe it's time that we

[1:28:20] Voice 12: a get on with it there's been some inference here that gee if we don't have a absolutely

[1:28:25] Voice 12: absolutely 100 perfect by everybody uh terms of reference or scope of work we're not going to get

[1:28:32] Voice 12: the right kind of people um that are going to bid for this well that's absolutely not true um

[1:28:38] Voice 12: the evaluation criteria are likely going to be biased for people that have done management reviews

[1:28:44] Voice 12: of organizations planning organizations government organizations or whatever

[1:28:50] Voice 12: ever and that's going to be strong and and that is why there was a process after the successful

[1:28:55] Voice 12: proponent is selected that there can be clarity somebody asked gee what happens if somebody asks

[1:29:01] Voice 12: a question uh during the process or 10 questions well if they ask 10 questions and they get 10

[1:29:08] Voice 12: answers those 10 questions and those 10 answers are shared with all of the other people who have

[1:29:13] Voice 12: indicated they wish to bid. So how I think we have to go on with this is we should go forward,

[1:29:21] Voice 12: we should make some minor changes for clarity, and we should try to come to consensus on those

[1:29:28] Voice 12: changes as a select committee and get on with it, try our best to keep to a tight timeline

[1:29:36] Voice 12: timeline, and stay as best as we can within the terms of reference and the motion that was

[1:29:45] Voice 12: agreed to by a majority of trust counsel. I think we just have to get on with it and see if we can

[1:29:50] Voice 12: put together a document that's acceptable to some. Clearly, there's some verbiage in

[1:29:55] Voice 12: the terms of reference that aren't needed since.

[1:30:00] Voice 12: they refer to Trust Council and a bunch of other things.

[1:30:02] Voice 12: So I think we just get on with it.

[1:30:06] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Trustee Rendon.

[1:30:08] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Morrison, please.

[1:30:10] Voice 5: Hey, I'm going to be super pragmatic.

[1:30:12] Voice 5: So the things that I see in the terms of reference

[1:30:15] Voice 5: that I would change are part three

[1:30:18] Voice 5: doesn't need to be included right now,

[1:30:20] Voice 5: except where it says about budget,

[1:30:22] Voice 5: that there's a total amount of budget.

[1:30:24] Voice 5: Because the rest of part three

[1:30:25] Voice 5: is really stuff that was meant for Trust Council

[1:30:27] Voice 5: to understand the committee formation.

[1:30:29] Voice 5: and so having that included in an RFP that went out to a larger group of bidders is not meaningful

[1:30:38] Voice 5: and it is extraneous. In terms of the scope of work probably well at least 50 percent of my

[1:30:48] Voice 5: current work is bid work so I bid for all my contracts and I write them up with the scope of

[1:30:54] Voice 5: work so I'm extremely familiar on what that looks like and it's the scope of work elements that I

[1:31:01] Voice 5: don't see here are like a specific itemizing of what the deliverables are and that's not something

[1:31:07] Voice 5: that's going to change the terms of reference it's just going to be about exactly what the

[1:31:12] Voice 5: deliverable is and like how that comes to be on a very specific timeline of deliverables

[1:31:19] Voice 5: so and I think that can match the rough timeline piece that we have in here right so we keep to

[1:31:26] Voice 5: that or we adjust it slightly like you were saying Lee but I think that those are the relatively

[1:31:33] Voice 5: minor logistical changes so having said that I also need to listen to the recording and hear

[1:31:40] Voice 5: more clearly what Russ named as some of the other challenges that he felt were not

[1:31:44] Voice 5: not like lipstick on the pig kind of version changes,

[1:31:47] Voice 5: like what are the deeper changes, right?

[1:31:49] Voice 5: And those are the ones that we have to be

[1:31:52] Voice 5: a little bit cautious about

[1:31:53] Voice 5: because we can't be veering from our terms of reference,

[1:31:56] Voice 5: which this is in guiding us,

[1:31:58] Voice 5: but we do need to make sure that it is meaningful

[1:32:01] Voice 5: as it goes out in an RFP package.

[1:32:04] Voice 5: What would be very helpful for us

[1:32:06] Voice 5: in furthering this conversation

[1:32:07] Voice 5: and like really making it pragmatic

[1:32:10] Voice 5: automatic would be to see like the BC bid RFP application package, like what it looks like

[1:32:16] Voice 5: that it needs to like merge into, or is it really, could it be just like sections one and two

[1:32:22] Voice 5: with some like revisions in ways, and then a scope of work piece as part three? Like,

[1:32:27] Voice 5: I guess that's what I'm trying to understand.

[1:32:30] Trustee Middleton: Sure. Thank you. So just in maybe attempting

[1:32:35] Trustee Middleton: to pull us all together a little more here, because I don't think this, it needs to be a

[1:32:40] Trustee Middleton: a final decision today, I think we can still move forward without.

[1:32:43] Trustee Middleton: So in essence, my understanding all along is obviously BCBID have a template.

[1:32:47] Trustee Middleton: So the template is what we'd use.

[1:32:49] Trustee Middleton: The template is not our Terms of Reference document, it's a different document.

[1:32:53] Trustee Middleton: I think the question in essence is, do we add the Terms of Reference as an appendix

[1:32:59] Trustee Middleton: as is?

[1:32:59] Trustee Middleton: And now we're hearing from CEO Hudson-Pella, no, that it's not fit for that, it's not presenting

[1:33:05] Trustee Middleton: presenting us in the way we wish to be presented through to perspective, for example, of Trustee

[1:33:10] Trustee Middleton: Kahle who is saying this crystallizes the intent. We've got to keep it there. Fair enough.

[1:33:15] Trustee Middleton: Different positions. That's okay. We can move forward with that. I suggest that a step one

[1:33:21] Trustee Middleton: with the terms of reference, if there are just egregious errors, we perhaps ask for

[1:33:25] Trustee Middleton: us if you would kindly go through and correct the egregious errors, the stark pieces. We're

[1:33:34] Trustee Middleton: support the document or view the document as its own but at least show us which are the the errors

[1:33:40] Trustee Middleton: of fact that we could then say right those are changed we agree get those out of there change

[1:33:45] Trustee Middleton: the wording um and then and then we've sort of settled that issue it doesn't mean to say we have

[1:33:52] Trustee Middleton: a document that that everyone can then stand by but we don't need to at this point what we do then

[1:33:57] Trustee Middleton: And I think as we go into the BC bid process, as Trustee Morrison suggested, there is a template.

[1:34:03] Trustee Middleton: It would be fairly clear what level of clarity needs to be placed in the section where you're asking the bidder what it is you want to do.

[1:34:14] Trustee Middleton: Now, I've seen bids where, you know, you would have this terms of reference document appended as background historical material for the consultant to read.

[1:34:23] Trustee Middleton: Understood. That's an open question. We're not deciding yes or no to do that.

[1:34:29] Trustee Middleton: The actual bid process, I think you can have anything from the questions can be answered

[1:34:39] Trustee Middleton: in a further addendum document that we ourselves would author after a committee meeting, and

[1:34:45] Trustee Middleton: then you release through the BCBid portal, and it goes as an addendum onto the bid package

[1:34:49] Trustee Middleton: where you show the answers to all the consultants' questions up to X date, as Paul suggested,

[1:34:54] Trustee Middleton: suggested, through to an information session. I don't know how information sessions work

[1:34:58] Trustee Middleton: right now with the BC BID mechanism. They're probably not in person, but we'll hear that

[1:35:03] Trustee Middleton: from BC BID. But it can be a bit of an iterative process as you're challenged by the field

[1:35:10] Trustee Middleton: of consultants out there who are trying to get from you what is the scope and is it something

[1:35:14] Trustee Middleton: that they're wanting to put their time into. So I'm wondering if a way forward at this

[1:35:21] Trustee Middleton: point is we i know we don't agree on this document yet um or or at all that's fine we don't need to

[1:35:28] Trustee Middleton: at this point we proceed with uh engaging bc bid where they tell us perhaps at our next meeting

[1:35:36] Trustee Middleton: here is how just as paraphrasing what russ had said here's the temp i'm not saying the

[1:35:41] Trustee Middleton: necessary i have to attend but here's the template um here's in essence what the package would look

[1:35:47] Trustee Middleton: like so there's my understanding is there's two documents there's your rfp your request

[1:35:50] Trustee Middleton: for proposal and then it's the evaluation handbook that's used to select um the uh most qualified

[1:35:58] Trustee Middleton: proponent and that's what gives it its sort of independence and objective integrity is that

[1:36:03] Trustee Middleton: you've set up front what are the criteria that make a desirable bidder um so we would have to

[1:36:08] Trustee Middleton: help create that that's not not a bc bid would guide i believe um so once we're as a group

[1:36:16] Trustee Middleton: educated about what the documentation needs to look like we could perhaps better understand

[1:36:22] Trustee Middleton: then all right where do we stand with this terms of reference document are the terms honored in

[1:36:28] Trustee Middleton: what we would get down on the bid document and and and uh committee members are perfectly free

[1:36:33] Trustee Middleton: to agree or disagree to that as it goes along um and so yeah i guess that's i guess it's come up to

[1:36:41] Trustee Middleton: a suggestion i wouldn't say it's a motion or anything like that to say okay we've had a good

[1:36:47] Trustee Middleton: discussion here we understand a couple points of disagreement and that and that's fine at this

[1:36:51] Trustee Middleton: point um we can engage with a bid process that we all recognize and agree to and that's the mechanism

[1:36:58] Trustee Middleton: mechanism with BCBID that involves CAO Hudson-Peller and staff in terms of liaison and preparation

[1:37:04] Trustee Middleton: of documentation. I think we can begin that process with what we have. And then, you know,

[1:37:14] Trustee Middleton: the side addendum, and CAO may agree or disagree to do this at this point, that's fine, is

[1:37:18] Trustee Middleton: that to, you know, remove the obvious errors from the documents so that they're not a part

[1:37:22] Trustee Middleton: of what what moves forward uh so i don't know any comments on that there's a trustee looking

[1:37:30] Trustee Middleton: first and trustee right i

[1:37:32] Trustee Luckham: think that's definitely a path forward um lee thank you for for that

[1:37:38] Trustee Luckham: um just to maybe create some comfort level here i'd just like to take the first sentence from the

[1:37:44] Trustee Luckham: one two three the fourth paragraph of the document that this is a high level terms of reference

[1:37:49] Trustee Luckham: to conduct an independent review of the trust governance and management trust council will be

[1:37:53] Trustee Luckham: asked to vote on a motion authorizing and funding this review at december 2020 um and and then it

[1:38:01] Trustee Luckham: goes on to that there will it will approve this review a project steering committee was struck

[1:38:06] Trustee Luckham: outlined in this document it's not down to the words that are in this document this is a uh

[1:38:13] Trustee Luckham: council has approved this committee and trusting this committee to advance this request of council

[1:38:18] Trustee Luckham: Council to move forward. I would like to ask, if it's all right through the chair, whether or not

[1:38:26] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Morrison would be prepared and has the ability to take on some of that initial

[1:38:34] Trustee Luckham: editing as an individual, consulting with the CAO, myself, and others that want to contribute

[1:38:39] Trustee Luckham: to get this down to a manageable level. And indeed, I would like to see it all come back

[1:38:45] Trustee Luckham: to our next meeting with the bid package uh template so that we can then finesse it into that

[1:38:52] Trustee Luckham: uh mold but i also um and i'm chair morrison might like to answer that first but i would like to know

[1:39:00] Trustee Luckham: from the cao after again just a reiteration of this bid process because there's conversation

[1:39:07] Trustee Luckham: there now about questions going in 10 questions go in and then those 10 answers get distributed

[1:39:12] Trustee Luckham: be to draw the bidders and that sort of stuff. I just really want to have some clarity on once

[1:39:17] Trustee Luckham: this ball gets rolling, what that really looks like. And maybe that's contained within the bid

[1:39:22] Trustee Luckham: document, which I have not ever looked at. And I'll ask Trustee Morrison if she can assist us in

[1:39:28] Trustee Luckham: this.

[1:39:31] Voice 5: At the discretion of the committee, in terms of time, I can answer that aspect. I think the one

[1:39:39] Voice 5: thing i'm a little unclear on is when we're meeting next because that would dictate how

[1:39:44] Voice 5: much time we have i'm assuming we're meeting in the next week or two weeks or something like that

[1:39:49] Trustee Luckham: okay okay

[1:39:49] Voice 5: so um yeah i mean for to sit down i would need to see the bc bid package framing

[1:39:59] Voice 5: and i mean the staff are the ones who are like expert at this but i'm happy to take a pen and

[1:40:05] Voice 5: like go through and like think of what what i think is obvious of out of this that isn't shouldn't be

[1:40:11] Voice 5: included with a consultant but i think there's others here who can do that too so it's up to

[1:40:15] Voice 5: this committee how how we do that um

[1:40:18] Trustee Middleton: and just trustee right i think was next yeah

[1:40:22] Voice 3: i i don't

[1:40:26] Voice 3: want my focus to be uh one of fear of going back to trust council um i want my focus to be to ensure

[1:40:34] Voice 3: sure that we have a document and a process that is going to create, come to the outcome that we

[1:40:41] Voice 3: desire and will be a positive outcome for the operation of the Islanders Trust and will advance

[1:40:46] Voice 3: our mandate more effectively and efficiently. I cannot ignore the advice of our CAO. I trust him

[1:40:54] Voice 3: and I have too much appreciation for what he does.

[1:40:58] Voice 3: I also cannot ignore concerns of Trustee Leckham.

[1:41:06] Voice 3: And I think if we are going to work as a committee,

[1:41:10] Voice 3: if we're going to work for the common cause

[1:41:17] Voice 3: of producing a positive outcome,

[1:41:20] Voice 3: then there has to be some recognition of trust

[1:41:23] Voice 3: and some ignition of the advice that people are giving us

[1:41:28] Voice 3: with full meaning and full intention of the same goal.

[1:41:31] Voice 3: And so if we need to look at these concerns more closely,

[1:41:39] Voice 3: then I think we are duty bound by that motion

[1:41:42] Voice 3: and the trust that council has put in us to do that work.

[1:41:46] Voice 3: And if we can do that without changing the intent

[1:41:50] Voice 3: of the terms of reference

[1:41:52] Voice 3: or in the intent of the direction that council gave us

[1:41:55] Voice 3: and we can do it within a timely manner,

[1:41:57] Voice 3: then I really don't see an alternative.

[1:41:59] Voice 3: We need to do this.

[1:42:01] Voice 3: We just have to do it to make sure

[1:42:03] Voice 3: that what we are doing is done properly and correctly

[1:42:06] Voice 3: and achieve the result we're looking for.

[1:42:09] Voice 3: Thanks.

[1:42:10] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[1:42:13] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[1:42:14] Trustee Middleton: I think senior Hudson-Pellerin and Trustee Critchley,

[1:42:18] Trustee Middleton: I see hands, four.

[1:42:21] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, thanks.

[1:42:21] Trustee Middleton: it's like why

[1:42:23] Voice 8: don't three of you take this thing tidy it up make it better have a tough week

[1:42:27] Voice 4: have

[1:42:28] Voice 8: a tough week um where you unwind some of these concepts and get something done pretend you're

[1:42:35] Voice 8: back in high school and we got to get the the essay ready um like i think that we're

[1:42:41] Voice 8: you're protecting too many different elements here and we're you're going to lose the potential

[1:42:45] Voice 8: thrust of what could be a positive for the for the island's trust so

[1:42:50] Voice 4: take

[1:42:51] Voice 8: a week and a half like

[1:42:53] Voice 8: and you know as long as i'm not in that first body i'm thrilled so it's january 18th you want

[1:43:01] Voice 8: to put an rfp out in february 10th well that's three and a half weeks julia said she needs two

[1:43:07] Voice 8: weeks with the document to take it from scope to getting it into an rfp process i don't think you

[1:43:14] Voice 8: you need to start worrying about what the RFP document looks like and then reverse engineering

[1:43:20] Voice 8: it into your intentions. I think you're going to waste a week of time

[1:43:24] Voice 11: waiting

[1:43:25] Voice 8: for that to happen.

[1:43:27] Voice 8: I'd say two or three of you refine the direction of trust counsel. I know that's hard, but hard

[1:43:33] Voice 8: things are hard. Then you come back and refine it a little bit more. You get it closer to a good

[1:43:39] Voice 8: scope of work with some clarity then you give it to this person and she takes a couple weeks with it

[1:43:46] Voice 8: you have a couple meetings to make that happen and then probably mid-feb you get the thing um put out

[1:43:53] Voice 8: for 30 days like that would be the simple way that the timelines of um like listen trustee brent

[1:44:03] Voice 8: kale others who are concerned about the literal interpretation you can't we can't be constrained

[1:44:09] Voice 8: constrained by time constrained by money and constrained by resources some of those we can't

[1:44:15] Voice 8: have all constraints so um if you i think your timelines could be realized if you just

[1:44:21] Voice 8: did a simple little review here to get some of the key concepts together

[1:44:26] Voice 8: see what you get if it's if it's better my god that would be great um and then you proceed once

[1:44:33] Voice 8: you see that and uh not make it too complicated don't

[1:44:38] Voice 3: have a problem with that all

[1:44:42] Trustee Middleton: right trustee

[1:44:44] Trustee Middleton: critchley please uh you had your hand up yeah

[1:44:48] Trustee Critchley: thank you so i would i would agree with what

[1:44:51] Trustee Critchley: ceo has just proposed in broad outline um that was kind of where my thinking was going on it and

[1:44:58] Trustee Critchley: i wanted to underline um the distinction i think which is being more and more appreciated that

[1:45:04] Trustee Critchley: This terms of reference is a terms of reference for our committee.

[1:45:08] Trustee Critchley: It's not necessarily something that merely gets appended to a bid proposal.

[1:45:14] Trustee Critchley: So I think we're quite at liberty to create the request for a proposal in some different language,

[1:45:23] Trustee Critchley: not changing concepts or upending what we're looking for, but to use the word finessing the template

[1:45:32] Trustee Critchley: or the broad mandate that the committee has

[1:45:37] Trustee Critchley: that set out in these terms of reference.

[1:45:39] Trustee Critchley: So I don't see that as being a point of conflict.

[1:45:43] Trustee Critchley: And as far as how do we do that,

[1:45:45] Trustee Critchley: I think because a lot of these concerns

[1:45:48] Trustee Critchley: have been raised by our CAO,

[1:45:50] Trustee Critchley: not necessarily involves a CAO in working with somebody

[1:45:54] Trustee Critchley: or some people of this committee.

[1:45:56] Trustee Critchley: And I think keeping that small,

[1:45:58] Trustee Critchley: all, i.e., preferably one person from this committee along with the CAO to do a kind of

[1:46:06] Trustee Critchley: track changes on the document so we can see what was before and what now is being proposed

[1:46:11] Trustee Critchley: would be ideal. The next thing I'm hearing is, and I just want to make sure that I got the

[1:46:17] Trustee Critchley: understanding correct, who is preparing the request for proposal? Because I'm hearing now

[1:46:22] Trustee Critchley: now from CAO, Julia will do certain things.

[1:46:26] Trustee Critchley: And then I heard in an earlier discussion

[1:46:28] Trustee Critchley: that there's some person at BC BID

[1:46:31] Trustee Critchley: who actually kind of does this.

[1:46:33] Trustee Critchley: My mistake.

[1:46:34] Voice 8: She is from BC BID.

[1:46:36] Voice 8: Julia does

[1:46:37] Voice 8: work at BC BID.

[1:46:39] Voice 8: It's Julia Crosby.

[1:46:41] Voice 8: Different Julia.

[1:46:42] Trustee Critchley: Thank you.

[1:46:42] Voice 9: Thank you.

[1:46:43] Voice 9: Thank you.

[1:46:44] Trustee Critchley: So that is a major clarification there.

[1:46:49] Trustee Critchley: So following up from that is,

[1:46:52] Trustee Critchley: Is Julia available?

[1:46:54] Trustee Critchley: Is this something that she could do to join into our meeting for 15 minutes, our next

[1:47:00] Trustee Critchley: meeting, so we can better understand this paperwork and how it gets done?

[1:47:08] Voice 8: Julia from BC Bid.

[1:47:11] Trustee Critchley: Oh, yes.

[1:47:12] Trustee Critchley: Hereafter, when using the term Julia, we'll be understood to refer to Julia of BC Bid

[1:47:18] Trustee Critchley: unless a contrary intention is expressed, right?

[1:47:21] Voice 8: Understood.

[1:47:24] Voice 8: I'll ask her.

[1:47:25] Trustee Critchley: um

[1:47:31] Trustee Middleton: thank you very much trustee kitchley um any other it sounds like we all right so it sounds

[1:47:41] Trustee Middleton: like we've got on the table is take the document away and refine the scope of work and come up with

[1:47:49] Trustee Middleton: some draft deliverables um uh yeah vice chair long grace please uh yeah

[1:47:57] Voice 11: i just wanted to say i

[1:47:58] Voice 11: I originally came into this quite cautious

[1:48:02] Voice 11: about changing anything in the terms of reference.

[1:48:05] Voice 11: I've listened to what everyone said

[1:48:07] Voice 11: and what CEO Houghton Spiller has said,

[1:48:11] Voice 11: and I've become swayed by that.

[1:48:13] Voice 11: Like I think, and especially the comment

[1:48:16] Voice 11: that this is direction to the committee

[1:48:18] Voice 11: to create the dev review, you know,

[1:48:23] Voice 11: the enter into a contract.

[1:48:25] Voice 11: So I'm swayed by that.

[1:48:27] Voice 11: i think that there is potentially some room to re-look at it as long as we do stay within the

[1:48:32] Voice 11: scope of what was intended by the terms of reference that was passed by trust counsel

[1:48:42] Trustee Middleton: um thank you yes uh and so i guess is there support broad support for um well i think i'm

[1:48:50] Trustee Middleton: hearing two things one i do think it would be useful to make an invitation to uh julia bc bid

[1:48:57] Trustee Middleton: bid fame to explain to us the bidding process and give us some pointers in terms of, you

[1:49:04] Trustee Middleton: know, how we might best help ourselves and help her and, you know, the organization be

[1:49:08] Trustee Middleton: obviously staff have to be involved that I just think that that would be useful and perhaps

[1:49:13] Trustee Middleton: save us from unnecessary pitfalls or putting the staff through work that's just not required.

[1:49:20] Trustee Middleton: So am I hearing, Russ, that you would be so kind as to make a telephone call to our friend

[1:49:27] Trustee Middleton: and once we have you know just 15 minutes half hour of our time question and answer session

[1:49:32] Trustee Middleton: would be great so

[1:49:34] Voice 8: some direction from you to do that and uh as a motion probably be a good idea

[1:49:38] Voice 8: just shows that you're good cumulative decision making and um we'll we'll make that happen

[1:49:44] Trustee Middleton: i can uh make that motion or ask for preferably ask for someone else

[1:49:49] Trustee Luckham: make a motion to uh that

[1:49:51] Trustee Luckham: that staff be asked to invite a representative from BCBID

[1:49:55] Trustee Luckham: to attend the beginning of our next meeting

[1:49:58] Trustee Luckham: to advise us on the bid preparation.

[1:50:01] Trustee Luckham: Second.

[1:50:03] Trustee Middleton: And on favor?

[1:50:06] Trustee Middleton: Great, that passes.

[1:50:07] Trustee Middleton: Thank you very much.

[1:50:09] Trustee Middleton: All right, so then the second item

[1:50:11] Trustee Middleton: is to basically the edit SWAT team to go in

[1:50:15] Trustee Middleton: and obviously remove the contextual bits.

[1:50:21] Trustee Middleton: And it could be argued,

[1:50:22] Trustee Middleton: I mean, the explanation of the organization as a trust, as a bidder, I'm always interested

[1:50:30] Trustee Middleton: in seeing how an organization explains itself.

[1:50:33] Trustee Middleton: So I would say that the first part of that terms of reference document may find some

[1:50:38] Trustee Middleton: use in the bid process.

[1:50:41] Trustee Middleton: Obviously stuff referencing trust counsel's decision, et cetera, et cetera, that can be

[1:50:45] Trustee Middleton: revised to show what has happened versus what we hope to happen.

[1:50:48] Trustee Middleton: happen, but it's really the main focus of interest is the scope and what exactly are

[1:50:53] Trustee Middleton: we asking a consultant to do and what do we hope to achieve by that.

[1:50:57] Trustee Middleton: So a suggestion from CEO Hudson-Peller is that one, two or three individuals descend

[1:51:03] Trustee Middleton: on the document and draft something for our review at the next meeting.

[1:51:10] Trustee Middleton: Before we actually ask, I just want to see what the support level for that is, Trustee

[1:51:16] Trustee Middleton: Brent.

[1:51:17] Voice 12: so i'd be supportive of that and i just think like why don't we just uh do it spend some time

[1:51:23] Voice 12: at it get again three individuals and then um circulate it for comment prior to the meeting

[1:51:32] Voice 12: and that way we get lots of commentary and then go back and see if we could fix what was

[1:51:38] Voice 12: yeah i just i'm very conscious of the fact that we need to do work we need to do work as we've

[1:51:44] Voice 12: done a lot of work on this terms of reference, do work and then try to get some stuff done

[1:51:53] Voice 12: in the interim between meetings as a group, just in terms of getting edits and the like.

[1:51:58] Voice 12: And then again, bring that perhaps to the next meeting.

[1:52:04] Trustee Middleton: Okay, thank you. Any other comments on that concept of proceeding? Does it resonate?

[1:52:12] Trustee Middleton: No,

[1:52:12] Voice 9: I would certainly reinforce just what Trustee Brent has said there. I think that sums it up neatly in 30 seconds. And Paul, thank you for that 30 seconds. Bit of a record, but great commentary.

[1:52:26] Trustee Middleton: And then, so the next question would be, who are this? Who are the chosen three?

[1:52:32] Trustee Middleton: Trustee

[1:52:33] Voice 5: Critchley also is wanting to add something.

[1:52:35] Trustee Middleton: Oh, sorry, Trustee Critchley, go ahead, please.

[1:52:37] Trustee Middleton: Well,

[1:52:39] Trustee Critchley: I wanted to change the thinking on the group of three, because I think getting people together and having more cooks stirring this old broth now is unnecessary.

[1:52:51] Trustee Critchley: I think Russ is a person who has brought up a lot of these concerns and so needs to be involved.

[1:53:00] Trustee Critchley: And I think we need one person from the committee.

[1:53:02] Trustee Critchley: And I would suggest Trustee Morrison, who has expertise with doing bids, would be a great person if she's available to do it.

[1:53:13] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Trustee.

[1:53:14] Trustee Middleton: and

[1:53:14] Trustee Critchley: then the circulation the circulation of the document uh around the entire committee

[1:53:19] Trustee Critchley: for comment um following that initial process i think would be great thank

[1:53:25] Trustee Middleton: you um trustee morrison

[1:53:27] Trustee Middleton: and i think ceo had some hell you had your hand or certainly should make comment after you've been

[1:53:33] Trustee Middleton: so kindly volunteered for this mission um yeah go ahead please then we'll come to trustee morrison

[1:53:40] Trustee Middleton: so

[1:53:40] Voice 8: i don't think like i can sit or provide a note or two but it's i guess what i'm communicating is

[1:53:46] Voice 8: that it's not at a staff level yet i think the elected officials have to grapple with this

[1:53:51] Voice 8: whether if you take my advice and the advice of some of the other things i'm not i can't take this

[1:53:58] Voice 8: on yet if there's i'm not going to argue with everybody for the next three weeks about every

[1:54:03] Voice 8: word and all that kind of stuff i think it needs one more view by the authors of the intention to

[1:54:09] Voice 8: make sure that your good stuff gets in here and then i can commit you know i'm happy to sit in

[1:54:15] Voice 8: or have some comments um around that and i can reiterate a couple of my points that i've made

[1:54:21] Voice 8: but then you would bring that whoever it is bring that back and i could then um i don't know if

[1:54:26] Voice 8: professionalize it but get it ready for the um rfp process um i think that would be better rather

[1:54:32] Voice 8: than me being a current co-writer um i'd be uncomfortable there um but uh in essence i think

[1:54:40] Voice 8: we're getting to the same place i can participate in that with whoever you determine thank you thank

[1:54:48] Trustee Middleton: you um it's uh i'm trusting martin you have something to say before steve wright um uh

[1:54:55] Trustee Middleton: yeah just one

[1:54:57] Voice 5: quick thing so um and then i guess this again depends a little bit on our timeline

[1:55:03] Voice 5: line but um I think one of the things I literally have just spent the last three weeks writing

[1:55:08] Voice 5: with different teams of writers and one of the things that um I think very powerful about having

[1:55:15] Voice 5: more than one person involved is that um we all have such different perspectives that we take to

[1:55:22] Voice 5: a document and so but I think instead of doing it as a group think it's better to do it as a linear

[1:55:29] Voice 5: year like football pass right so like one person takes a stab at it and then they they have it

[1:55:35] Voice 5: till this date and they pass it over to another person and then they have it till that date and

[1:55:40] Voice 5: they pass it and that's helpful because then you can build on each other's thinking and then that

[1:55:44] Voice 5: shared set of thinking goes out to the whole committee and I think that will move things most

[1:55:50] Voice 5: rapidly so I think if we have three people who have very different perspectives it's going to get

[1:55:57] Voice 5: the most diverse set of like thought on the document and like in front of everybody in

[1:56:04] Voice 5: the timeline we're talking about okay

[1:56:08] Trustee Middleton: thank you uh trustee ray yeah

[1:56:11] Voice 3: i'd be prepared to um join in

[1:56:13] Voice 3: and kick it uh around the block um and i'd be happy to have work with uh trustee morrison

[1:56:19] Voice 3: and utilize her experience and be in touch with uh our cao on this anybody else of course is

[1:56:25] Voice 3: is welcome, but it might be helpful

[1:56:27] Voice 3: because Trustee Morrison and I live fairly close by

[1:56:31] Voice 3: so we can kick this around and certainly pass it around

[1:56:35] Voice 3: whatever we come up with makes more sense.

[1:56:38] Voice 3: I think so far the way that we've brought this to life

[1:56:42] Voice 3: has been relatively successful and extremely democratic

[1:56:46] Voice 3: and I don't want to lose that flavor, thanks.

[1:56:50] Voice 12: And Chair, I can help.

[1:56:52] Voice 12: help our firm has done scope of works for a number of projects probably in the tens of billions of

[1:56:59] Voice 12: dollars so yeah we have a little bit of familiarity that might be helpful and

[1:57:04] Trustee Middleton: thank you trustee

[1:57:05] Trustee Middleton: please well

[1:57:07] Trustee Luckham: if the committee would be so gracious i would like to contribute being

[1:57:13] Trustee Luckham: one of the individuals that has concerns about the overall structure and i'll be nice

[1:57:19] Trustee Luckham: um and my internet connection is as fast as steve wright's internet connection to pender

[1:57:26] Trustee Luckham: so i think we'll be okay there yeah um

[1:57:29] Trustee Luckham: uh and i thank the committee for uh considering uh the

[1:57:33] Trustee Luckham: review

[1:57:33] Trustee Middleton: i i i am taking that out as a consensus position then do we need a motion to uh affect

[1:57:42] Trustee Middleton: that or yes all right so could I ask for a motion then please to make this so

[1:57:52] Trustee Middleton: try

[1:57:53] Voice 5: it can

[1:57:54] Trustee Middleton: we first get oops

[1:57:56] Voice 3: no

[1:57:57] Voice 5: go for it could we

[1:58:01] Voice 3: first maybe get a list of

[1:58:02] Voice 3: the number of people that are involved here so we can include their names in

[1:58:06] Voice 3: the motion I have sorry

[1:58:09] Trustee Middleton: go ahead trustee Morrison yeah

[1:58:11] Voice 5: it sounded to me if nobody

[1:58:13] Voice 5: nobody else wanted to jump in on that that it was brenn luckham morrison and right um and that we

[1:58:21] Voice 5: would sort of loop hot some pillar into that as we sort of loop around on yeah

[1:58:29] Trustee Middleton: that was what i

[1:58:30] Trustee Middleton: heard too case oh

[1:58:33] Voice 5: well then it'll go out to everybody at some point too in case i don't

[1:58:37] Voice 4: know if you want to

[1:58:38] Voice 5: be on the initial round or like you're a good person to kind of do this

[1:58:41] Voice 5: So that's why I would kind of hold you in the back if possible,

[1:58:45] Voice 5: because you have a really good synthesis lens.

[1:58:54] Trustee Middleton: So I think what they're saying in case is that your excellent editorial

[1:59:03] Trustee Middleton: skills will be held in reserve when they drop exhausted at the finish line,

[1:59:07] Trustee Middleton: they will hand the document to you. And so, so yeah.

[1:59:13] Trustee Middleton: So, so do you want to make a motion to that effect? Trustee Wright,

[1:59:17] Trustee Middleton: You were beginning to.

[1:59:20] Voice 3: Was I?

[1:59:23] Voice 3: I move that we, the steering committee appoint

[1:59:27] Voice 3: Trustee Lockem, Trustee Morrison,

[1:59:29] Voice 3: Trustee Wright and Trustee Brent as a group to modify

[1:59:37] Voice 3: and however you want to phrase the word,

[1:59:42] Voice 3: the terms of reference and bring forward

[1:59:48] Voice 3: to the committee to our next meeting.

[1:59:51] Trustee Middleton: Might I suggest you change the word terms of reference to project scope so that we can...

[1:59:56] Voice 3: Absolutely. That's a friendly amendment. I'll accept that.

[2:00:00] Voice 3: Thanks.

[2:00:01] Trustee Middleton: And then, Trustee Leffman, were you seconding, or do you want to make a comment? Oh, you're muted, Peter.

[2:00:08] Trustee Middleton: You're muted,

[2:00:08] Voice 3: Peter.

[2:00:10] Trustee Luckham: So certainly, I'll second that, and I was only actually indicating a change to scope of work or something, because I think that's where we're going.

[2:00:18] Trustee Luckham: yeah

[2:00:18] Trustee Middleton: um great uh in favor i think that's unanimous as far as i can see um so thank you very much so

[2:00:32] Trustee Middleton: i think we can conclude then that that that so um maybe i'll take out go ahead yeah so just in

[2:00:40] Voice 8: support of that group i'm happy to jot down my notes or even organize initially a quick phone

[2:00:46] Voice 8: phone call or Zoom meeting so that I can reiterate some of the things that I've already said,

[2:00:51] Voice 8: and that would inform me you all start from the same place and things like that, just

[2:00:57] Voice 8: in broad terms, and then that'll give it a start.

[2:01:01] Voice 3: That'd be helpful.

[2:01:02] Voice 3: Thank you.

[2:01:02] Voice 3: If

[2:01:02] Voice 8: that's helpful.

[2:01:03] Voice 3: Yep.

[2:01:05] Trustee Middleton: And not to open a can of worms here, but I would just reiterate on the topic of governance

[2:01:10] Trustee Middleton: correspondence that we consciously steered away from involving a consultant in reviewing

[2:01:15] Trustee Middleton: any of the legislative framework or foundation of the trust a that being a much bigger project and

[2:01:22] Trustee Middleton: b we actually want to establish a baseline with what we currently have as opposed to what we

[2:01:27] Trustee Middleton: might request down the road it might indeed be that there's a request to change enabling

[2:01:32] Trustee Middleton: legislation but that we did decide was not to be part of this scope well that has to be more

[2:01:38] Voice 8: clearly developed then because you've left the reader with many inferences and you wouldn't

[2:01:44] Voice 8: want your consultant going madly off in all directions yeah

[2:01:48] Trustee Middleton: it's it it would come out in

[2:01:50] Trustee Middleton: the document that way for sure because that was certainly not a consensus view as the as the work

[2:01:54] Trustee Middleton: progressed um because of course it is of interest and would be productive work but it's also at this

[2:02:02] Trustee Middleton: point we considered a bit of a rabbit hole given the the you know the the uh the wide open scope

[2:02:11] Trustee Middleton: for change that could be recommended given the blue sky approach we were we were working with

[2:02:16] Trustee Middleton: what is so you know not to talk to hobble the group who then come back and say we've rethought

[2:02:23] Trustee Middleton: that if so then so but uh i did just want to flag that um and trustee uh luckham do you have a

[2:02:31] Trustee Middleton: a comment or well

[2:02:33] Trustee Luckham: i just have another question for the committee you know being a new member

[2:02:37] Trustee Luckham: to the group and not having formulated the original document and indeed i think that that's

[2:02:42] Trustee Luckham: an important distinction that's just been made about legislative changes and so somehow that

[2:02:47] Trustee Luckham: needs to be included in the in that scope of work but i just have a question with respect to the

[2:02:54] Trustee Luckham: word vision because it comes up a couple of times i was just looking for the second one

[2:02:58] Trustee Luckham: where in the very in the introductory statement it arrives uh the desire of trustees to arrive

[2:03:05] Trustee Luckham: at a vision and then oh and it's in the next following paragraphs where it says uh we hope

[2:03:11] Trustee Luckham: to lay an objective foundation from which to consider policy changes if if not form a common

[2:03:17] Trustee Luckham: vision and i'm just wondering is the expectation that um that the consultant is going to somehow

[2:03:26] Trustee Luckham: somehow offer some direction or vision that we might be prepared to adopt? Because, of course,

[2:03:36] Trustee Luckham: the vision statement has been a long sought after holy grail, so to speak.

[2:03:44] Trustee Middleton: Good question. Definitely the intent was not to create a vision statement, and perhaps that word

[2:03:51] Trustee Middleton: should be changed, and maybe that's some of the joy that you can experience over the next two

[2:03:56] Trustee Middleton: weeks wrestling with how to how to address that term or concept in a better way but i guess just

[2:04:02] Trustee Middleton: to clarify most definitely wasn't to create a vision statement i think maybe the intent was

[2:04:06] Trustee Middleton: to say if we have an understanding on common terms of what the organization is and how it functions

[2:04:12] Trustee Middleton: and what it can be that that's the foundation of a vision i guess was was the intent there

[2:04:18] Trustee Luckham: thanks for that clarity thank

[2:04:20] Trustee Middleton: you um so in terms of our our work then um this takes us back to let

[2:04:27] Trustee Middleton: me log out pardon me um takes us back to i think 0.6 in because we have now the outstanding items

[2:04:39] Trustee Middleton: are the work program items and the schedule of meetings i think are what we need to uh

[2:04:44] Trustee Middleton: a revisit bid preparation um 7.5

[2:04:52] Voice 4: now

[2:04:53] Trustee Middleton: yeah okay fair enough right we've got obviously we've not

[2:04:56] Trustee Middleton: finished so we'll return to the the meeting schedule and the uh and the scope of work i

[2:05:03] Trustee Middleton: guess once we've concluded the agenda as written trustee luckham please uh yeah

[2:05:07] Trustee Luckham: sorry just um this

[2:05:09] Trustee Luckham: is just going to be helpful for my contribution um and i there were the questions and this is the

[2:05:15] Trustee Luckham: the only remaining question here that I have as to about what the committee thinks with respect to

[2:05:22] Trustee Luckham: the current implementation of the local planning services review. And that is not referenced in

[2:05:30] Trustee Luckham: this document, but is obviously how we have been is different from how we're going to be. And

[2:05:37] Trustee Luckham: And just trying to think about how it is that we can incorporate that is the anticipation that, yeah.

[2:05:47] Trustee Luckham: So how can that be incorporated in the ask?

[2:05:52] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, it's a good, yeah, fair question.

[2:05:55] Trustee Middleton: Fair point, for sure.

[2:05:57] Trustee Middleton: I mean, I guess just speaking editorially, there's two ideas.

[2:06:02] Trustee Middleton: One is they were asking a consultant to review what is versus what will be.

[2:06:08] Trustee Middleton: but if what will be is so imminent that effectively it becomes relevant for what is then

[2:06:12] Trustee Middleton: then obviously it should be pointed to so um yeah that's that's uh

[2:06:20] Trustee Middleton: um i won't say a conundrum but that's yeah that's something that will need to be wrestled with for

[2:06:26] Trustee Middleton: sure yeah

[2:06:27] Trustee Luckham: so you know it may be that there's better communication necessary which is obviously

[2:06:32] Trustee Luckham: always key but all of the main players are now and the co can correct me if i'm wrong but all

[2:06:38] Trustee Luckham: All the main staff players have been allocated to the new roles that are going to be undertaken

[2:06:45] Trustee Luckham: for delivery of federation-wide work.

[2:06:49] Trustee Luckham: And so it is a case of it being in place of how it's actually evolved and actually more

[2:06:58] Trustee Luckham: information about what is actually happening and choices that are being made will be yet

[2:07:04] Trustee Luckham: to come.

[2:07:05] Trustee Luckham: but I'm just thinking about that and if it's up to the committee to ask the CAO to provide an update

[2:07:12] Trustee Luckham: on that that might be helpful.

[2:07:15] Trustee Middleton: Yeah sure go ahead please CAO Hudson-Pillars. I

[2:07:18] Voice 8: think we just

[2:07:19] Voice 8: proceed apace with what's in front of us the you know keep in mind that what we're doing with

[2:07:30] Voice 8: planning services is simply a reallocation of resources to find out with no new resources

[2:07:34] Voice 8: resources can we get um more bang for our buck for lack of a better word so that that's what's

[2:07:41] Voice 8: being put in place um this thing won't come through for a year um and then there'll be six

[2:07:46] Voice 8: months of discussing um what the outcomes of this are they might be commensurate what what we're

[2:07:52] Voice 8: already doing um or some other tweaks but you know we'll just run into those things um when i would

[2:08:01] Voice 8: recommend against um stopping or you know i just i'd stay informed let that process keep informing

[2:08:08] Voice 8: um this thing certainly if we're talking to a consultant we'll let them know where we're at and

[2:08:12] Voice 8: what we're doing um and then we'll you know we'll we'll see how things fall out can't do more than

[2:08:20] Voice 8: that thank you

[2:08:21] Trustee Luckham: that's great

[2:08:22] Trustee Middleton: um so i did so the next item in the agenda was we'll kind of tie

[2:08:30] Trustee Middleton: then the the bow on this in a second when we come back to this program of work but the next item was

[2:08:35] Trustee Middleton: big preparation and sign off and i'm wondering if we could just treat this by saying we've had the

[2:08:39] Trustee Middleton: discussion we've made an invite to bc bid to better understand the um the bid process and

[2:08:46] Trustee Middleton: the sign off is that um the the committee has involvement in either the preparation or uh

[2:08:54] Trustee Middleton: basically preparation of the scope of work which the the bid documents reflect and i'm wondering

[2:08:59] Trustee Middleton: if that's all we really need to have discussed or have on the table for right now or if there's

[2:09:04] Trustee Middleton: anything else anyone wants to say

[2:09:07] Voice 3: well

[2:09:09] Trustee Middleton: yes sir we

[2:09:11] Voice 8: start as we mean to end so um at some point

[2:09:15] Voice 8: an entity in the islands trust will be selecting a consultant and what the committee is going to

[2:09:21] Voice 8: have to grapple with is the policies we have in place and a suggestion i'm about to make

[2:09:25] Voice 8: um associated with how that gets done um right now our policies don't have elected officials

[2:09:31] Voice 8: making choices associated with allocating rfps um but at the same time i think we have to note

[2:09:40] Voice 8: that this is a strongly political decision um and an approach and um you've appealed to your

[2:09:47] Voice 8: colleagues at trust council and they've they've supported that so i don't think we have to solve

[2:09:52] Voice 8: this question today but i think it would feel weird for me um to be selecting um solely have

[2:10:01] Voice 8: the staff solely selecting any preferred consultants so what i'm going to recommend to you

[2:10:05] Voice 8: and i'll fill this out in the future is some sort of combination of those two things

[2:10:10] Voice 8: that has whether it's the chair or somebody else joins a selection committee so that later on in

[2:10:17] Voice 8: the day if things start to go awry as sometimes they do that we all will be um in one place

[2:10:24] Voice 8: together or if they're tremendously successful realizing that the selection process was fully

[2:10:29] Voice 8: realized by everybody at the time so um i don't think we have to grind it more than that unless

[2:10:34] Voice 8: there's um serious opposition to at least that concept um but um i would just leave it at that

[2:10:41] Voice 8: because ultimately there will be once the evaluation handbook this becomes a very technical

[2:10:46] Voice 8: process bc bid isn't just bc bid for our benefit it's for the consultancy um side of this equations

[2:10:52] Voice 8: benefit so they know that there's a fair run on all the selections and so forth so it gets as you

[2:10:57] Voice 8: sounds like there's tons of expertise here in this group amongst that so um that's all that uh i

[2:11:03] Voice 8: wanted to put forward certainly can provide more reporting if that's needed or um respond to any

[2:11:08] Voice 8: questions um

[2:11:09] Voice 9: can i just ask one question here yeah please go ahead

[2:11:14] Trustee Middleton: yeah

[2:11:15] Voice 9: selection committee

[2:11:17] Voice 9: what is the steering committee i thought the steering committee saw this through including

[2:11:23] Voice 9: the selection of the preferred consultant why are we developing another committee because elected

[2:11:32] Voice 8: officials at the islands trust we have policy that they don't we have a purchasing policy that's

[2:11:37] Voice 8: long-standing whether or not that was discussed at trust council trust council can't make a paul

[2:11:43] Voice 8: make a decision that then overrides its own policy without at least discussing it

[2:11:48] Voice 8: that certainly didn't come up um at the islands trust we have a process of elected officials say

[2:11:55] Voice 8: we want this work done refer to your purchasing policy organization and then we go forward and

[2:12:02] Voice 8: and do that, bring you all the criteria, you approve of those criteria, and you approve of

[2:12:08] Voice 8: the budgets, and then we move forward. I'm actually appealing to your interest, Trustee Cahill, by

[2:12:13] Voice 8: saying I don't think that that process might be perfectly appropriate, but nor is it having,

[2:12:20] Voice 8: we don't have any countenance, nor is it a good local government practice to have elected officials

[2:12:24] Voice 8: sitting on the selection of consultants. There's also the reality that there has been discussion

[2:12:30] Voice 8: with consultants in the field which is also not part of how public procurement

[2:12:36] Voice 8: is done at the local government level so I'm sort of offering a I think a good

[2:12:43] Voice 8: way forward to end up with the best committee select the best consultant for

[2:12:49] Voice 8: the for the project at hand okay

[2:12:52] Voice 9: thank

[2:12:53] Trustee Middleton: you yes trustee Morrison please yeah and

[2:12:59] Voice 5: And I think we've left

[2:13:00] Voice 5: ourselves a little bit open on that in the current terms of reference

[2:13:06] Voice 5: for this committee, because we said that the steering committee will, using the selection

[2:13:11] Voice 5: matrix in the RFP document, select a qualified bidder and award the contract to this bidder.

[2:13:16] Voice 5: So that's what it currently says in the terms of reference.

[2:13:19] Voice 5: friends um and so i think that what russ is suggesting suggesting is a method that is

[2:13:28] Voice 5: appropriate for local government we i think we do need to potentially russ like it would be helpful

[2:13:36] Voice 5: to know what the policy is for us for selecting contractors like what is the existing policy in

[2:13:42] Voice 5: the trust i have no

[2:13:42] Voice 8: i can tell you exactly what it is right now you there's the second line in it

[2:13:47] Voice 8: it says that elect officials have no role in procurement of services at the

[2:13:50] Voice 8: Allen's trust.

[2:13:51] Voice 4: And

[2:13:52] Voice 8: you would find that in a lot of institutions,

[2:13:53] Voice 8: but I'm trying to point out that there's a little bit of a difference here.

[2:13:57] Voice 8: I'm trying to sort of reach out a little bit to,

[2:14:00] Voice 8: to spread that out a little bit.

[2:14:03] Voice 8: So.

[2:14:04] Voice 8: Yeah.

[2:14:05] Trustee Middleton: A future discussion for sure.

[2:14:07] Trustee Middleton: I.

[2:14:08] Voice 8: It's just one to mull over.

[2:14:09] Trustee Middleton: I differ in your reading of the Allen's trust policy in regard to

[2:14:13] Trustee Middleton: procurement.

[2:14:13] Trustee Middleton: procurement um and it's a debatable point if you ask me i think the procurement policy

[2:14:19] Trustee Middleton: is clearly relating to the securement of goods like windows vehicles etc that is not that is

[2:14:26] Trustee Middleton: not my reading of it at all i know i know i know and i but i also did speak with bc bid

[2:14:32] Trustee Middleton: and i believe i don't know how senior they went with the question of um elected officials being

[2:14:41] Trustee Middleton: involved in procurement decisions and that and that was whereby we got the sanction that bc bid

[2:14:46] Trustee Middleton: would uh work under our auspices as part of this process um and this just reflects the honest truth

[2:14:54] Trustee Middleton: of the matter that indeed it is a politically directed process right i mean i i hear you in

[2:14:59] Trustee Middleton: terms of the sensibility of policies that prevent uh procurement from elected officials no question

[2:15:05] Trustee Middleton: but i i think we're saying the same thing in the sense that this is a bit of a blended beast

[2:15:11] Trustee Middleton: will perhaps require transparently and object you know there's no no no inference that anything's

[2:15:17] Trustee Middleton: being done behind closed doors here but um i i think i take your point uh uh that um you know

[2:15:26] Trustee Middleton: this will be an evolving conversation and that we will get to a point perhaps naturally where

[2:15:30] Trustee Middleton: you know it's just the selection process is is is in place but um um so i you know i i i agree

[2:15:38] Trustee Middleton: there's no point hashing out the difference in policy interpretation at this point we may never

[2:15:43] Trustee Middleton: need to um so any any other comments then about a bit bit preparation and i think we're um and

[2:15:56] Trustee Middleton: so i think if we're okay with moving to uh our our last sort of official item before we kind of tie

[2:16:05] Trustee Middleton: tie um the package together in terms of the program of work and the meeting schedule

[2:16:10] Trustee Middleton: is next is key messages for communications and it's it's a briefing that um i think

[2:16:15] Trustee Middleton: zeo hudson bill would you care to speak to this at this point sure

[2:16:20] Voice 8: um so i think even the

[2:16:22] Voice 8: conversation today has indicated that this is a different process than we've regularly had at

[2:16:26] Voice 8: the allen's trust usually just in terms of even procurement we just discussed you know this is

[2:16:31] Voice 8: um um the development of some concepts and the presentation as a whole to trust council

[2:16:38] Voice 8: So in usual circumstances, if there was a large initiative, there would be communications with community baked into the process.

[2:16:48] Voice 8: And we just don't have that right now. So how do we collectively as an organization, not just this committee, deal with that?

[2:16:58] Voice 8: And so what you see right here was in December 16th, EC, who's responsible for communications at the Allen's Trust,

[2:17:04] Voice 8: as is the CAO as the spokesperson came up with these bulleted points so someone phoned tomorrow

[2:17:10] Voice 8: and a couple people have phoned this is what would be um said there inevitably we've already

[2:17:16] Voice 8: had some inquiries from people as you would know and there's discussion in the community people

[2:17:21] Voice 8: calling in saying well what about this what about that you may wish to think about a communication

[2:17:26] Voice 8: strategy associated with this um or have it lie fallow as it's it is now and leave it to

[2:17:33] Voice 8: Chair Luckham to speak or something else. There's no avoiding that this is not

[2:17:44] Voice 8: inconsequential or to potentially to the trust so there wouldn't actually be some communications

[2:17:49] Voice 8: and I can't help but note you know this that we don't have any there has been a consideration

[2:17:58] Voice 8: of DRIPA responsibilities potentially associated with this initiative or

[2:18:04] Voice 8: reference to First Nations around communications so certainly if those

[2:18:09] Voice 8: questions came in chair Luckin would have to respond and though these things

[2:18:15] Voice 8: might be difficult to talk about I'm certainly feel that it's I have to draw

[2:18:19] Voice 8: them to your attention as as the group and if you wish to put some thinking

[2:18:25] Voice 8: towards uh communications you would probably do that in the early um side of this or or at least

[2:18:32] Voice 8: develop a strategy associated with it or see how it goes um

[2:18:36] Voice 9: again trustee

[2:18:39] Trustee Middleton: kale yes and and then

[2:18:40] Trustee Middleton: i have

[2:18:42] Voice 9: to say i when it comes to communications i would welcome an agreed script at our municipal

[2:18:48] Voice 9: municipal meetings every other week, we do an Islands Trust update.

[2:18:54] Voice 9: People are very much aware that this these meetings, this review is taking place.

[2:19:01] Voice 9: So anything that enables us to report back accurately and

[2:19:08] Voice 9: sincerely reflecting the meeting would be welcome.

[2:19:13] Voice 9: welcome uh then we can stay on on track uh with our comments and and not allow time to be wasted

[2:19:21] Voice 9: with sort of uh he said this sort of thing and maybe that wasn't quite true so it is in fact an

[2:19:28] Voice 9: invaluable part for us with other responsibilities who do relay the activities of of the trust so

[2:19:34] Voice 9: if you could just bear that in mind would be helpful rather than leaving it blank okay and

[2:19:42] Trustee Middleton: that um trustee critchley and then followed by uh trustee luckham thank

[2:19:48] Trustee Critchley: you uh yes i think that

[2:19:50] Trustee Critchley: these uh talking points if i can call them that are just excellent um really good the only concern

[2:19:58] Trustee Critchley: that i have is with respect to the last one uh where it says there is no plan to engage the

[2:20:03] Trustee Critchley: public during the review process now i think i know what is intended there but i think that could

[2:20:10] Trustee Critchley: be misunderstood and I think that we are kind of excluding public participation in any review.

[2:20:18] Trustee Critchley: I see this process of obtaining a consultant and getting a report as the first step to review. I

[2:20:24] Trustee Critchley: mean that review, the report would be reviewed by Trust Council and then it'd be up to Trust

[2:20:31] Trustee Critchley: Council as to where to go with it. Just bury it, put it in a file, do nothing or recommend

[2:20:39] Trustee Critchley: some changes. But I think that we should change that to read something like this. There is no

[2:20:47] Trustee Critchley: plan to engage the public prior to the receipt of the external consultant's report. That would

[2:20:56] Trustee Critchley: make it clear that we're not intending to exclude the public from all proceedings relating to review

[2:21:05] Trustee Critchley: view of the trust. Thank you. Thank

[2:21:13] Trustee Middleton: you, Trustee Cripsley.

[2:21:14] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Luckham, please.

[2:21:19] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, so certainly some tweaking

[2:21:22] Trustee Luckham: might be appropriate or not. I'd just like to say that based on

[2:21:27] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Kale's remarks there is this is not intended as a

[2:21:31] Trustee Luckham: proactive communication. It's a responsive communication so

[2:21:38] Trustee Luckham: So that in the event that emails or questions or phone calls come in, there's kind of a scripted notion of what those responses might look like.

[2:21:49] Trustee Luckham: And certainly, I can take that into consideration with respect to that.

[2:21:54] Trustee Luckham: You know,

[2:21:55] Trustee Luckham: there is no plan at this time to engage the public during the start of this process would be something that certainly there would be public review in what the outcomes might be.

[2:22:06] Trustee Luckham: anyway it's not necessarily prescriptive and it's definitely not proactive we wouldn't be

[2:22:12] Trustee Luckham: messaging this out i think many meetings would be the messaging out of the activities that have

[2:22:19] Trustee Luckham: been undertaken within the committee itself thank

[2:22:24] Trustee Middleton: you and uh i think uh trustee morrison was next

[2:22:28] Trustee Middleton: quick

[2:22:29] Voice 5: um bullet two where it says the goal is to assess current performance to seek input on

[2:22:34] Voice 5: options for strengthening the islands trust blah blah blah um i i worry about the the phrase

[2:22:41] Voice 5: current performance um and not to say that we're not understanding that as part of the work but i

[2:22:48] Voice 5: think the central part of this work is that the goal is to seek input on options for strengthening

[2:22:54] Voice 5: the islands trust and as soon as you put in performance in there i really don't want staff

[2:22:59] Voice 5: to start to think that we're like hyper analyzing everything that staff are doing because it's a

[2:23:04] Voice 5: governance and um management like under like sort of

[2:23:09] Voice 5: design question right now and so i really think

[2:23:12] Voice 5: we need to remove the word performance from that um and then the second um question that i have

[2:23:18] Voice 5: more generally is i have seen the driftwood article um um so there's two aspects to that

[2:23:25] Voice 5: um that came out after the trust council meeting one how are we ensuring that trustees are um

[2:23:32] Voice 5: speaking in terms of two trustees spoke to reporters after that meeting, naming sort of

[2:23:42] Voice 5: dissent around the motion, but it's a motion of council at that point. And I have deep concerns

[2:23:47] Voice 5: about that. And so as a council, we stir up all sorts of chaos just ourselves. So I think we need

[2:23:56] Voice 5: to really have some messaging to go out to the trustees um about this because i worry that

[2:24:02] Voice 5: trustees are undermining the process in and of itself and everyone will choose their battle on

[2:24:08] Voice 5: that um but i do think that we need to figure that internal messaging and communication dynamic and i

[2:24:16] Voice 5: lie there was three points the last point was um i wonder if you're going to get questions about

[2:24:20] Voice 5: gender composition of this committee i'm sure that that was i know that that was already pointed out

[2:24:25] Voice 5: in some comments from various people who phoned me. I had five phone calls from different trustees

[2:24:30] Voice 5: who are not on this call right now and I really thought that was an interesting dynamic being

[2:24:37] Voice 5: like female on the committee and I think it's something that we can lean into. The council

[2:24:44] Voice 5: itself has a certain composition. I just think you might want to bullet around sort of you know

[2:24:51] Voice 5: i don't know how to name that because i don't personally have attention with working with

[2:24:58] Voice 5: whomever in these spaces but i do understand there's a there's an optic to it

[2:25:06] Trustee Middleton: yep trustee

[2:25:08] Trustee Middleton: right please go ahead and yeah and you're you're muted steve you're still muted uh

[2:25:21] Voice 3: i i'd like to

[2:25:22] Voice 3: mirror trustee morrison's comments uh particularly about the performance because i do not want any

[2:25:27] Voice 3: aspirations or suggestions that we're not happy with staff performance that's a that's just goes

[2:25:31] Voice 3: goes without saying.

[2:25:33] Voice 3: As far as the gender name,

[2:25:37] Voice 3: I just want to make it quite clear

[2:25:40] Voice 3: that there were a number of female trustees

[2:25:43] Voice 3: that were sent notices of an invitations

[2:25:47] Voice 3: to get involved in this proposal.

[2:25:51] Voice 3: And they were all rejected

[2:25:53] Voice 3: either through non-support or non-interest.

[2:25:55] Voice 3: The two ladies that did say they would get involved,

[2:26:00] Voice 3: involved which both indicated that they may not be available to serve on the committee because

[2:26:07] Voice 3: of time restraints and and and work problems so this gender makeup of the committee was not

[2:26:14] Voice 3: intentional it just happened to be the way it was because nobody was interested from the female

[2:26:20] Voice 3: persuasion I'm not sure if I will get any phone calls on this because in point five I'm not named

[2:26:27] Voice 3: and maybe that is probably a bonus for me

[2:26:29] Voice 4: I

[2:26:30] Voice 3: just I'll just raise that to the

[2:26:33] Voice 3: point I've raised it with Lori previously but I think I think overall

[2:26:38] Voice 3: this communication programs draft is fine thanks great

[2:26:49] Trustee Middleton: thank you do do we

[2:26:51] Trustee Middleton: need any motion to make some of those wording changes I think everyone

[2:26:55] Trustee Middleton: on consensus-oriented agreed, but they were acceptable.

[2:27:02] Trustee Middleton: Is that all right, Zio, that those changes just get made as discussed?

[2:27:10] Voice 8: Yeah.

[2:27:11] Trustee Middleton: Okay, great.

[2:27:12] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, I think to echo that, I think they're good work, too.

[2:27:15] Trustee Middleton: They read well and present the intent well.

[2:27:19] Trustee Middleton: well um okay so i think this now brings us back to uh the scope of work um yeah i think it was

[2:27:40] Trustee Middleton: six i'm just hang on i'm in the wrong 7.1 i think mr chair schedule of meetings okay okay so in item

[2:27:48] Trustee Middleton: six do we need to do anything in terms of work program items or that's been satisfactorily

[2:27:53] Trustee Middleton: had commissioned and is underway we're all good there now we have resolutions okay um so schedule

[2:27:59] Trustee Middleton: the meetings i guess just to kick things off what i'd suggest is for the interim it'd be every two

[2:28:04] Trustee Middleton: weeks on a monday and the suggestion was made by trustee mcconkey and for to perhaps attract

[2:28:12] Trustee Middleton: interested members of public although that's not one of our you know if people are interested great

[2:28:17] Trustee Middleton: but we're not you know we're not necessarily seeking an audience for for the working group

[2:28:22] Trustee Middleton: where obviously we're trying to work through our goals but if people want to look in

[2:28:26] Trustee Middleton: to make that more accessible the suggestion was also to hold it in the evening so

[2:28:30] Trustee Middleton: the suggestion was five o'clock on a monday evening basically every two weeks so now that

[2:28:37] Trustee Middleton: that's open for discussion i know right that presents definitely an issue for for staff

[2:28:42] Trustee Middleton: um in terms of because that's outside normal working hours but um uh that was again just to

[2:28:50] Trustee Middleton: kick things off so any any other comments or suggestions just

[2:28:54] Voice 9: one thing that uh

[2:28:56] Trustee Middleton: so trustee

[2:28:57] Trustee Middleton: keller and trustee luckham yeah

[2:28:59] Voice 9: uh just very simply um we i have a commitment uh on every

[2:29:05] Voice 9: other monday for uh council meetings i'd just be very grateful if we could just make sure that it

[2:29:11] Voice 9: fitted in between the council meetings otherwise you're automatically excluding me should it not

[2:29:16] Voice 9: be the case. Fair enough.

[2:29:20] Trustee Middleton: And Trustee Letcom?

[2:29:24] Trustee Luckham: Certainly, I want to try to be flexible, but

[2:29:26] Trustee Luckham: I think that we should note that this is being recorded, and people can view it at any point

[2:29:35] Trustee Luckham: in time, and it's not a participatory opportunity for the public. So I think it's a matter of

[2:29:43] Trustee Luckham: balancing our timing to facilitate the committee members. And, you know, this meeting has now been

[2:29:52] Trustee Luckham: two and a half hours. And, you know, unfortunately, that does span the time that I personally have

[2:30:00] Trustee Luckham: with my family and my wife coming home from work

[2:30:04] Trustee Luckham: and all those sorts of things.

[2:30:05] Trustee Luckham: So even

[2:30:06] Voice 4: though I'm laid out here,

[2:30:07] Trustee Luckham: it's a trouble for me in various

[2:30:11] Voice 4: aspects.

[2:30:19] Voice 9: Thank you.

[2:30:20] Voice 5: Trustee Cahill, can you mute yourself?

[2:30:22] Voice 9: Sorry, that was incoming.

[2:30:27] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, no, thank you, Trustee Lethem.

[2:30:29] Trustee Middleton: So I know Trustee Morrison, you had your hand up.

[2:30:31] Trustee Middleton: yeah

[2:30:32] Voice 5: so um i think uh ben and i have a similar challenge is that we are trustees who are full

[2:30:40] Voice 5: time employed um and i think for him it's more constraining than it is for me because of his

[2:30:46] Voice 5: hours i can often flex if i know ahead of time enough i can flex around various meetings um

[2:30:53] Voice 5: so i think what i need to understand is i i do understand the overtime issue and want to really

[2:30:59] Voice 5: make sure we're accommodating i mean we have both carmen and laurie here and i don't really want to

[2:31:04] Voice 5: run into dinner because i get to be an angry bear after six

[2:31:06] Voice 4: um

[2:31:07] Voice 5: so if you want to deal with me after

[2:31:11] Voice 5: six that's your your game um and so i'm wondering about um if we can have some proposed options that

[2:31:20] Voice 5: we can look at and if there's a late sort of bar that we have to make sure we're done by um in

[2:31:26] Voice 5: terms of staff timing i'm kind of assuming that's like five o'clock so that would be a three o'clock

[2:31:31] Voice 5: start that hits ben's work day so like is there a way we can kind of start to adjust and wiggle

[2:31:36] Voice 5: between that um because if we did a four o'clock start to six that might be a work or you know 4 30

[2:31:43] Voice 5: i don't know anyway it would be good to have some proposals on the table

[2:31:47] Trustee Middleton: and uh five

[2:31:48] Trustee Luckham: would be good that's

[2:31:50] Trustee Middleton: a good suggestion sure trustee brent yeah i don't even

[2:31:55] Voice 12: know if i'm

[2:31:56] Voice 12: unmuted anymore uh i think uh i prefer to start at four i'd prefer to keep to a monday i think

[2:32:02] Voice 12: we could finish at 5 30 that should accommodate most people and it's just you know guess what

[2:32:07] Voice 12: we're going to move to we'll end the meeting at at 5 or 5 30 whatever is appropriate there just

[2:32:14] Voice 12: needs to be discipline and uh we'll do it so how

[2:32:19] Trustee Middleton: how could we put that forward then that we meet at

[2:32:22] Trustee Middleton: four o'clock on it on a monday every second monday and you know if it conflicts with obviously with

[2:32:27] Trustee Middleton: your schedule chair i'll come there if you've got something standing or obviously we can you know

[2:32:32] Trustee Middleton: look at that adjusting but otherwise um put that out as our proposal in the minutes

[2:32:38] Trustee Luckham: if we can

[2:32:39] Trustee Luckham: end at a scheduled time then that just allows me to do meal preparation and all the rest

[2:32:43] Trustee Luckham: of that stuff

[2:32:44] Trustee Middleton: okay so um do we do we need a motion to uh to that effect or uh yes ceo

[2:32:52] Trustee Middleton: house impeller i see your hand so

[2:32:54] Voice 8: that's that's great uh how often do you want to meet

[2:32:58] Voice 8: like is this for every two weeks forever um what's uh is there uh is this a year-long

[2:33:08] Voice 8: in engagement do you think or do you want to do the first

[2:33:11] Voice 8: three yeah or is it maybe the first

[2:33:14] Voice 8: three months to get us get the ball rolling and then it might be more or

[2:33:18] Trustee Middleton: less yeah i wouldn't

[2:33:20] Trustee Middleton: i would anticipate it probably becomes less once we've once we've identified it you know we've

[2:33:25] Trustee Middleton: everyone's agreed to the bid package however that functions and it's out there selection has

[2:33:31] Trustee Middleton: has occurred uh you know kickoff meetings have happened then probably the the uh meeting schedule

[2:33:37] Trustee Middleton: would um uh the frequency would increase or decrease so do you

[2:33:43] Voice 8: think then it would be

[2:33:44] Voice 8: reasonable to say to the end of the fiscal year so through march 31st that you

[2:33:51] Voice 8: meet every two

[2:33:51] Voice 8: weeks on a monday at four o'clock and someone makes a motion to that effect and then we'll just

[2:33:55] Voice 8: build it into the scenario and then you never know what could happen you might have to

[2:34:00] Voice 8: schedule something else but yeah sure yeah

[2:34:03] Voice 5: can we get trustee kale's uh alternate week

[2:34:07] Voice 5: no

[2:34:07] Voice 9: thank you very much thank you very much deb um if you start at four and finish our meetings

[2:34:15] Voice 9: don't start till 6 15 so thank you very much i'm all good okay great yeah thank you thanks for that

[2:34:23] Voice 5: chair middleton one last thing if i can please

[2:34:26] Trustee Middleton: yes um

[2:34:27] Voice 5: so just looking ahead on my schedule

[2:34:30] Voice 5: like as that stands i will try to reorganize some things but as that stands i do have some

[2:34:35] Voice 5: public facing commitments until 4 30 a few days that i will just have to be late so um and that's

[2:34:43] Voice 5: fine so if that's the will of the committee that works for me generally it's just there's a few

[2:34:47] Voice 5: things already on my schedule great

[2:34:52] Trustee Middleton: uh thank you um so do we need a motion for that prospective

[2:34:55] Trustee Middleton: date we

[2:34:57] Voice 8: do because that's going up on our calendar it's an it's an official action of

[2:35:01] Voice 8: the committee okay

[2:35:03] Voice 12: i'm going to move that the select committee meet uh every second monday from

[2:35:08] Voice 12: four until 5 30 p.m uh until the end of the fiscal year march 31st 2021 beginning

[2:35:19] Voice 3: february the first

[2:35:20] Voice 3: that's

[2:35:21] Voice 12: what i said yes i believe of course thank you um so

[2:35:26] Trustee Luckham: i think you said every second monday i

[2:35:29] Trustee Luckham: I think you mean every two weeks, every two

[2:35:31] Voice 12: weeks. Yes.

[2:35:34] Voice 12: Thank you. Another friendly amendment.

[2:35:37] Voice 11: And so this would be effective. What today's the 18th, the 27th.

[2:35:43] Voice 11: So it'd be the first week in February then February

[2:35:45] Voice 8: 1st, February 1st.

[2:35:47] Voice 8: And Laurie, have you got all these things? I just want to make sure.

[2:35:54] Voice 1: Yep. Yes, I do.

[2:35:55] Voice 1: I was just looking forward.

[2:35:57] Voice 1: There's a, like a stat holiday on the next two weeks, Monday.

[2:36:01] Voice 1: day so i will put together something and bring it back for so

[2:36:05] Voice 8: in that case yeah it would bump it a

[2:36:06] Voice 8: day

[2:36:06] Voice 1: exactly yeah

[2:36:07] Voice 8: right that's right stat

[2:36:10] Voice 3: holiday is groundhog day

[2:36:11] Trustee Middleton: i don't

[2:36:13] Trustee Middleton: know which one it is

[2:36:14] Voice 4: family

[2:36:15] Trustee Middleton: day you insensitive yes that's family day thank you

[2:36:19] Voice 4: by the

[2:36:20] Trustee Middleton: way mr chair i'll second the

[2:36:22] Trustee Middleton: motion okay all those in favor great okay thank you um all right so i think um

[2:36:37] Trustee Middleton: next meeting goodness is it the german already we were just getting into it and the joy was building

[2:36:45] Trustee Luckham: well chair middleton i'll let you enjoy that by yourself i'll move to call for germany

[2:36:51] Trustee Middleton: i second

[2:36:53] Trustee Middleton: second that one as well all

[2:36:54] Trustee Middleton: right thanks everybody thank you everybody

[2:36:57] Voice 4: very much appreciate it bye