Islands Trust Council community information meeting, February 10, 2021

[0:00:00] Trustee Busheikin: here um we have an agenda before us um there was a late item uh sent out uh really just as i

[0:00:11] Trustee Busheikin: uh tried to make clear black background material uh under 5.1 so we could just add that and that

[0:00:18] Trustee Busheikin: was just a staff report regarding application processing services and anything else with the

[0:00:27] Trustee Busheikin: agenda uh go ahead um advice here patrick i

[0:00:33] Trustee Patrick: think it can be discussed under item 5.2.2 uh the verbal

[0:00:37] Trustee Patrick: update on the freshwater sustainability but we've been asked to talk about appointing um or having

[0:00:42] Trustee Patrick: an appointment of an elected uh on a freshwater steering committee um strategy so just to make

[0:00:49] Trustee Patrick: sure we discuss that in that item okay um

[0:00:54] Trustee Busheikin: that's a good point okay five point two point two point

[0:00:59] Trustee Busheikin: one i guess thank you um anyone else okay and i see that some people are putting their territories

[0:01:11] Trustee Busheikin: um and just a uh territorial acknowledgement into the chat as well which is uh great if people want

[0:01:18] Trustee Busheikin: want to do that, that's very welcome. And that's great. So let's carry on. So we approve the agenda

[0:01:26] Trustee Busheikin: as amended by general consent. I assume we don't have town hall and delegations. Okay. Adoption

[0:01:35] Trustee Busheikin: of minutes. So, and I'm going to, I've been advised by people who know such things that it's

[0:01:43] Trustee Busheikin: a really good idea to get us used to using the electronic hand raise for discussion and our

[0:01:50] Trustee Busheikin: meeting you know may get bigger if we have fpc members tuning in um so uh for discussion on

[0:01:57] Trustee Busheikin: issues let's use the electronic hands and um if you're not if you're just phoning in

[0:02:05] Trustee Busheikin: and you don't have access to that you will just need to use your voice and just um just speak up

[0:02:11] Trustee Busheikin: and I'll get you on the list. But that does, I didn't realize that it puts the, it puts people

[0:02:16] Trustee Busheikin: in order of when they put their hand up, which is something I cannot do on my own, looking at

[0:02:21] Trustee Busheikin: the screen. There's no way. So let's work with that. So any concerns with minutes? Hearing none,

[0:02:32] Trustee Busheikin: and then by general consent, we will adopt the minutes of December 22nd, 2020. Thank you.

[0:02:42] Trustee Busheikin: so the next thing is the follow-up action list and I'll invite staff to comment on this if there's

[0:02:49] Trustee Busheikin: any updates or any anything they wanted to point out about it

[0:02:54] Voice 18: okay can you hear me

[0:02:56] Trustee Busheikin: yeah oh good

[0:02:58] Voice 18: okay thank you yeah so the follow-up action list is on the screen here and the first item here in

[0:03:06] Voice 18: progress local planning committee requests staff to revise the model DAI bylaw so that is on the

[0:03:12] Voice 18: agenda today. It's one of the bylaws that would be attached to the draft policy for council.

[0:03:19] Voice 18: Moving down, just going to scroll down here. The next one showing in progress is groundwater mapping

[0:03:26] Voice 18: and staff be requested to prepare a report to describe the potential use of this mapping.

[0:03:30] Voice 18: So there is a report on the agenda from William today which will address that.

[0:03:36] Voice 18: And then the next item from November is that this is a briefing in regard to an audit of all the application process that has occurred over the last four months.

[0:03:49] Voice 18: So I have updated that report and provided that to the Regional Planning Committee today as well.

[0:03:57] Voice 18: as well. That's updated with information from June up until I think pick the end of December

[0:04:05] Voice 18: and mid-December as the cutoff for that information. And then finally, I think that's it. There's

[0:04:12] Voice 18: a couple more here in progress. Item number eight, request staff to report on Trust Programs

[0:04:20] Voice 18: Committee affordable housing discussion on the next Regional Planning Committee agenda.

[0:04:23] Voice 18: agenda and that is not actually on the agenda so we can look to do that at the next one and the

[0:04:31] Voice 18: regional planning committee number nine request request trust council add a training session on

[0:04:36] Voice 18: cannabis production issues and regulations to its continuous learning plan okay i'd probably have

[0:04:42] Voice 18: to check to make sure that did go on the council's training plan and i'll leave it on as not complete

[0:04:50] Voice 18: until I've checked that and I believe that's it for the file faction list yeah are there any

[0:04:57] Voice 18: questions okay

[0:05:02] Trustee Busheikin: not seeing any questions um we can move on and thank you um director Marler and all

[0:05:09] Trustee Busheikin: staff for uh you know moving those uh many of those items ahead all right next we have a 5.1

[0:05:18] Trustee Busheikin: on application processing services update.

[0:05:21] Trustee Busheikin: Now from FPC, I see we have Chair Grove.

[0:05:25] Trustee Busheikin: So thank you very much, Peter,

[0:05:27] Trustee Busheikin: for showing up to our meeting.

[0:05:29] Trustee Busheikin: And I see Vice Chair Rogers as well.

[0:05:33] Trustee Busheikin: Anyone else from FPC?

[0:05:35] Trustee Busheikin: I mean, a few of us are on FPC.

[0:05:38] Trustee Busheikin: Just maybe put your hand up in the window

[0:05:39] Trustee Busheikin: if you sit on FPC.

[0:05:41] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, so we're pretty well represented.

[0:05:44] Trustee Busheikin: Oh, there's Trustee Morrison.

[0:05:45] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you for coming, welcome.

[0:05:48] Trustee Busheikin: And is Director Mobs on the line somewhere, somehow?

[0:05:54] Trustee Busheikin: I am here.

[0:05:57] Trustee Busheikin: Welcome, Director Mobs.

[0:05:59] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you.

[0:05:59] Trustee Busheikin: So this is a culmination of, I think, about two years of work.

[0:06:05] Trustee Busheikin: And, you know, the hope is that we can discuss it and fine tune it and send it on to council.

[0:06:11] Trustee Busheikin: Being said, of course, if there truly is a need to do more work on this,

[0:06:17] Trustee Busheikin: and that will you know maybe slow it down by a few months um to go to the next council you know

[0:06:22] Trustee Busheikin: we will do what we need to do to make it um serve the purpose we need it to serve uh so i will um

[0:06:31] Trustee Busheikin: invite staff to give a an introduction i'm assuming people have read the actual material

[0:06:39] Trustee Busheikin: in detail, which there's lots of.

[0:06:44] Trustee Busheikin: So yeah, I'll invite staff to just give an overview

[0:06:48] Trustee Busheikin: and then open the floor for comments and questions

[0:06:51] Trustee Busheikin: and maybe potential amendments if there are any.

[0:06:55] Voice 18: Okay, so

[0:06:56] Trustee Busheikin: yeah,

[0:06:57] Voice 18: through the chair,

[0:06:58] Voice 18: the first item on the agenda here

[0:06:59] Voice 18: is the cost of local trust community application

[0:07:02] Voice 18: and referral processing briefing.

[0:07:05] Voice 18: We put this on ahead of the fees

[0:07:08] Voice 18: because this may help your discussion around the fees.

[0:07:12] Voice 18: So do you want me to take you through the briefing

[0:07:14] Voice 18: or just assume everybody's read it?

[0:07:18] Trustee Busheikin: I don't think we, I think,

[0:07:20] Trustee Busheikin: I'm going to assume people have read it.

[0:07:23] Trustee Busheikin: And are there any questions

[0:07:27] Trustee Busheikin: about that briefing or comments?

[0:07:30] Trustee Busheikin: I just have one question myself.

[0:07:34] Trustee Busheikin: It says ALR.

[0:07:36] Trustee Busheikin: I mean, ALR, we don't process ALR applications.

[0:07:39] Trustee Busheikin: so is that a more of a referral or what exactly is that yeah

[0:07:43] Voice 18: they're they're a hybrid there

[0:07:45] Voice 18: actually are an application through the local trust committee to the agricultural land commission

[0:07:51] Voice 18: and you there is a requirement that the local trust committee consider it and take a position

[0:07:58] Voice 18: on it you have the right not to send it to the agricultural land commission if you think it's

[0:08:03] Voice 18: not consistent with your zoning or your official community plan, the land commission does require

[0:08:10] Voice 18: a resolution of the local government to send it to them. So the fee is set by the agricultural

[0:08:18] Voice 18: land commission, it's currently one thousand five hundred dollars and seven hundred and fifty dollars

[0:08:24] Voice 18: is retained by the local government and seven hundred and fifty dollars is paid to our cultural

[0:08:29] Voice 18: land commission so we have no control over the fee but uh i thought you know we got the tracking we

[0:08:36] Voice 18: might as well just show what it's actually costing okay

[0:08:39] Trustee Busheikin: thanks any more questions on this report

[0:08:43] Trustee Busheikin: okay so let's move to the next one which is sorry

[0:08:47] Voice 18: just through the chair there's at least two people

[0:08:50] Voice 18: that would raise hands oh

[0:08:52] Trustee Busheikin: sorry um that's right in here i asked you to use the electronic um

[0:08:56] Trustee Busheikin: hand raise and I am still learning so thank you and anyone can feel free if I'm not keeping track

[0:09:06] Trustee Busheikin: of things so I've got four people now so let's go through them uh trustee Longerice yeah

[0:09:12] Voice 13: thank you

[0:09:13] Voice 13: for the report uh I guess this the estimates that have been provided then are really uh COVID

[0:09:20] Voice 13: COVID impacted estimates right this is what's saying in the briefing so that at some point in

[0:09:26] Voice 13: time we're going to have to re-look at it post COVID when you know staff are traveling again

[0:09:33] Voice 13: and I'm assuming that's going to incur additional costs and time and time travel costs etc.

[0:09:41] Voice 18: Yeah that's correct. Yeah so

[0:09:43] Voice 18: we'll

[0:09:44] Voice 13: have to restart this I guess again post COVID

[0:09:48] Voice 13: the monitoring if we don't carry it on in any respect.

[0:09:53] Voice 18: Yeah my intention is to keep

[0:09:56] Voice 18: keep staff recording their hours and we do need to figure a better way to get the data out though

[0:10:03] Voice 18: and I'll be

[0:10:03] Voice 18: working with IT on that yeah yeah yeah

[0:10:06] Voice 18: it's a lot of manual

[0:10:07] Voice 18: work right now yeah

[0:10:09] Voice 13: one question on the on the first page there just when I read it I tried to figure out what it's

[0:10:17] Voice 13: referring to it's in the middle of the page it says current planning and bullet LPS planner

[0:10:22] Voice 13: current planning is that applications and referrals um

[0:10:27] Voice 18: yeah yes it is it's it's application

[0:10:31] Voice 18: referral as well applications referrals a big amount of it is um just inquiries from the public

[0:10:41] Voice 18: that are not related to a specific application yeah

[0:10:44] Voice 13: and then under policy planning it's got

[0:10:46] Voice 13: but planner projects and project-specific name.

[0:10:51] Voice 18: Yeah.

[0:10:52] Voice 18: So in there, we used to just track the hours

[0:10:59] Voice 18: by whether the staff were working on a project

[0:11:02] Voice 18: or working on an application,

[0:11:04] Voice 18: but we didn't specify which project they were working on.

[0:11:09] Voice 18: But as of June, we started recording by a specific project name,

[0:11:16] Voice 18: so we'll have a whole list of say 30 or 40 projects. So that just indicated the categories

[0:11:23] Voice 18: that we were using.

[0:11:24] Voice 13: Okay yeah I just didn't quite understand what the difference was so thank you.

[0:11:32] Trustee Busheikin: Okay Trustee Morrison.

[0:11:38] Trustee Morrison: Thank you. So thank you very much for the briefing. Can you hear me?

[0:11:43] Voice 15: Yes. Okay

[0:11:44] Trustee Morrison: thank you very much for the briefing and one of the things that I just wanted to make

[0:11:49] Trustee Morrison: sure was captured in this type of briefing was the idea of the trust council the related trust

[0:11:55] Trustee Morrison: council motions that were about this tracking and I don't see them anywhere in here or mention about

[0:12:02] Trustee Morrison: the trust current policy which is 5.6.1 around application processing services so I didn't know

[0:12:11] Trustee Morrison: if that should be in this briefing or if that's in the later one but it does seem to be relevant

[0:12:15] Trustee Morrison: to what's going on here yeah

[0:12:18] Voice 18: so the I think the council policy will be the next one because that's

[0:12:23] Voice 18: the revisions of the policies I'm not sure I'm following what's missing so the

[0:12:30] Trustee Morrison: motions from the

[0:12:31] Trustee Morrison: trust council asking to be tracking the hours right

[0:12:36] Voice 18: okay so yeah it's possible that I didn't

[0:12:38] Voice 18: put that in here yeah so if this is going to go back to council I would update it with that

[0:12:44] Voice 18: and we'll take that through the executive committee.

[0:12:47] Voice 18: But thank you.

[0:12:48] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you.

[0:12:52] Trustee Busheikin: And anything else?

[0:12:56] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, let's go to Trustee Stamford.

[0:13:02] Trustee Stamford: Thank you.

[0:13:04] Trustee Stamford: I'm just trying to confirm what the stats mean.

[0:13:09] Trustee Stamford: And on page 13 under rezoning,

[0:13:14] Trustee Stamford: we've got 179 staff hours recorded.

[0:13:18] Trustee Stamford: Just making sure that there's some,

[0:13:20] Trustee Stamford: I know there's some rezoning applications that are significantly bigger than what is considered average.

[0:13:27] Trustee Stamford: Are they included in this?

[0:13:29] Trustee Stamford: I don't know how much work is being done on applications sort of in our area where some of them are significantly bigger than others, such as DL696.

[0:13:40] Voice 18: Yeah.

[0:13:40] Voice 18: Yeah. So this report only includes applications that were received June 29th or later, because anything older than that, we would only be providing partial data.

[0:13:53] Voice 18: So it didn't make sense to track those. And having said that, rezoning is because we don't get a lot a year, but we do.

[0:14:01] Voice 18: but they are very time, you know, take a lot of time.

[0:14:06] Voice 18: It's going to take a while to actually build up enough data to actually start

[0:14:10] Voice 18: seeing what an average cost would be. And they are all over the place.

[0:14:16] Voice 18: There could be anything from, you know, three to four months to what is it?

[0:14:21] Voice 18: 12 years, I guess, on Gambia Keats.

[0:14:25] Voice 18: So it's hard to come up with an average for reasonings. It really is.

[0:14:28] Voice 18: but this is just providing that information as to what we're seeing so far so

[0:14:33] Trustee Stamford: i have a couple

[0:14:34] Trustee Stamford: of follow-up questions i know at the um the last trust council it was determined that

[0:14:41] Trustee Stamford: if we are looking at specifically applications then hours are tracked one way but it came to

[0:14:49] Trustee Stamford: light that a significant amount of time is actually taken up with queries and I'm wondering

[0:14:59] Trustee Stamford: if there's an option to track that not in particular to this project but in general for

[0:15:08] Trustee Stamford: us to get a sense of what kind of impact that is on how much our plan or time is taken up.

[0:15:16] Trustee Stamford: yeah

[0:15:17] Voice 18: that's a good point so with this new approach to tracking with the staff tracking

[0:15:23] Voice 18: specific applications there's a general section current applications or current planning and that

[0:15:31] Voice 18: would capture everything else that's not related directly to an application so that would be the

[0:15:37] Voice 18: inquiries you know talking to agencies or whatever that's outside of the actual application

[0:15:44] Voice 18: so we can do some analysis on that information as well yeah

[0:15:49] Trustee Stamford: that would be good thank you yeah

[0:15:50] Voice 18: thank

[0:15:52] Trustee Busheikin: you trustee wolverton

[0:15:56] Voice 6: um just as a follow-up to trustee morrison there is reference

[0:16:02] Voice 6: to the resolution in june at the top of page 13 um i don't know if that's if that's covers what

[0:16:10] Voice 6: what you were looking for um just a couple of typos in the paragraph below table one

[0:16:16] Voice 6: it talks of the above the same i think it's the sample yes thank you

[0:16:21] Voice 6: it's also that

[0:16:22] Voice 18: that typo is

[0:16:24] Voice 18: in the previous one i forgot to change it my fault

[0:16:26] Voice 6: yeah and it's also on the next line the same the

[0:16:29] Voice 6: sample but my question is on page 15 with the average consultant cost of 12 440 is that per

[0:16:41] Voice 6: application or is that the three together no

[0:16:44] Voice 18: that's the per application okay that was all

[0:16:49] Trustee Busheikin: Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Peter Lockham.

[0:16:56] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Chair. I'm presuming you can hear me.

[0:17:04] Trustee Luckham: I just wanted to follow up on Case's question there with respect to having to revisit this

[0:17:14] Trustee Luckham: at some other point in time

[0:17:19] Trustee Luckham: because of the data being collected during the pandemic.

[0:17:29] Trustee Luckham: That's a little troublesome

[0:17:30] Trustee Luckham: considering the amount of effort

[0:17:33] Trustee Luckham: that's been necessary to get us this far.

[0:17:37] Trustee Luckham: Can anybody hear me?

[0:17:39] Trustee Luckham: I'm worried that I'm actually not online.

[0:17:41] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, now we hear you.

[0:17:44] Trustee Luckham: For some reason, I can't get the screen to come up.

[0:17:46] Trustee Luckham: But anyway, that's fine.

[0:17:47] Trustee Luckham: We see you too.

[0:17:50] Trustee Luckham: Yeah. Anyway, I guess I'm presuming, considering this is being advanced to council, that it would be good to not have to revisit this.

[0:18:04] Trustee Luckham: And surely through some analysis, we could determine what margin approximately the numbers may be low or high that we're proposing on average, and that we can compensate for that in some fashion that we wouldn't have to go through this entire process.

[0:18:28] Trustee Luckham: obviously it wouldn't be an entire process but we have to revisit it and in

[0:18:32] Trustee Luckham: order to get it back to Council again if it was necessary consider revisions or

[0:18:37] Trustee Luckham: we might consider oh well it's not enough to worry about sort of thing the

[0:18:41] Trustee Luckham: whole idea was to try and get closer to the mark and I just wonder through the

[0:18:45] Trustee Luckham: chair the director what the potential is is to obviously this is a late point in

[0:18:52] Trustee Luckham: time even at the moment how close are we and and how realistic is it to bring

[0:18:57] Trustee Luckham: this back through local planning services to council yet again when there's so much work

[0:19:02] Trustee Luckham: already on the plate yeah

[0:19:04] Voice 18: so through the chair in response um i think i'd agree that we would just

[0:19:10] Voice 18: look at these dollars here and consider that site visits likely were not undertaken so there'd be a

[0:19:17] Voice 18: cost of the staff to travel for that which is mostly for things like the dvp development

[0:19:25] Voice 18: development permits. Rezonings are probably a little bit closer, probably would not be too far

[0:19:32] Voice 18: on that, but I wouldn't trust the dollars here for the rezonings anyway. Beyond that, I don't

[0:19:38] Voice 18: see any of the other ones being too far out. It's mostly staff time in the office to process them.

[0:19:44] Voice 18: So I don't see them being too far out. So I think we can certainly just, you know, look at the actual

[0:19:49] Voice 18: fees to recommend in the model to make sure they're at least higher than what we're seeing

[0:19:55] Voice 18: on this list to cover that. And then as far as revisiting, it's probably, and we can talk a

[0:20:05] Voice 18: little bit more about this when we get to the fees bylaw, but it's probably a good idea to

[0:20:09] Voice 18: have in the policy, which we don't have right now, that we should actually look at them maybe on a

[0:20:14] Voice 18: a four-year basis, like once a term, to have a look at whether or not we're still on track,

[0:20:21] Voice 18: whether the fee bylaws is still responsive to the needs. And at that time, we could

[0:20:27] Voice 18: consider any new data.

[0:20:31] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you. And just a follow-up question, Director Marler. I did notice

[0:20:39] Trustee Busheikin: that the the actual proposed level of fees in the model fees bylaw are are

[0:20:47] Trustee Busheikin: like a fair amount higher than the average in in this report and is it that

[0:20:55] Trustee Busheikin: the reason is this the reason because this is not a complete sample and it

[0:21:00] Trustee Busheikin: reflects kovat yes

[0:21:02] Voice 15: I

[0:21:03] Trustee Busheikin: was wondering about that so thank you okay so going down the

[0:21:09] Trustee Busheikin: list we have uh trustee grove thanks

[0:21:13] Trustee Grove: um david the fifty dollars an hour average um cost um

[0:21:17] Trustee Grove: where did you come up with that yeah

[0:21:21] Voice 18: so that's based on you know we have different levels of

[0:21:26] Voice 18: staff working on it from grid 9 up to grid 27 and excluded regional planning managers

[0:21:33] Voice 18: so um it's hard to come up with an accurate number this is again something we wanted to

[0:21:38] Voice 18: speak about um when you're looking at the actual fees whether you want us to be a little bit more

[0:21:44] Voice 18: refined in that area uh so you know the 50 55 dollars whatever it is um represents the um the

[0:21:53] Voice 18: average of that what

[0:21:56] Trustee Grove: does that include is it purely the the uh salary it's

[0:22:00] Voice 18: supposed to include

[0:22:01] Voice 18: the salary and and overhead benefits which is 25 oh

[0:22:07] Trustee Busheikin: we can't hear you for some reason you're muted

[0:22:12] Trustee Busheikin: it but but

[0:22:13] Trustee Grove: no overhead of any kind no

[0:22:15] Voice 18: that would just be the staff and again that's something we

[0:22:17] Voice 18: can talk about whether or not you want us to um try and capture more of that and be a bit more

[0:22:23] Voice 18: refined in how we do it thank you

[0:22:26] Voice 18: thank

[0:22:29] Trustee Busheikin: you and uh trustee morrison is your

[0:22:33] Voice 15: hand up again yep

[0:22:34] Trustee Morrison: um thank you for that so um yeah i do think that that is helpful thanks for clarifying that i

[0:22:40] Trustee Morrison: I missed the one at the top of page 13,

[0:22:43] Trustee Morrison: though it doesn't actually list motion anywhere.

[0:22:46] Trustee Morrison: I just went back through my notes

[0:22:48] Trustee Morrison: and there's been motions in December of 2019,

[0:22:52] Trustee Morrison: March of 2020 and June of 2020.

[0:22:56] Trustee Morrison: And I'm not sure if there was one in September,

[0:22:58] Trustee Morrison: last year or December.

[0:22:59] Trustee Morrison: So it'd be just good to have all those in there as a record.

[0:23:02] Voice 18: Yeah, thank you.

[0:23:04] Voice 18: Like I said, through the chair,

[0:23:06] Voice 18: if this report goes any further,

[0:23:09] Voice 18: they're definitely going to update it with respect to that thanks thank

[0:23:12] Trustee Busheikin: you yeah that's great uh i

[0:23:16] Trustee Busheikin: see um three hands trustee grove trustee morrison and uh trustee luckham so are those um yeah people

[0:23:27] Trustee Busheikin: are uh putting their hands up and down okay so i'm gonna go to uh uh trustee luckham and then

[0:23:35] Trustee Busheikin: back to Grove. You're muted.

[0:23:41] Trustee Luckham: Okay, thank you very much, Chair. Just respecting Peter Grove's

[0:23:49] Trustee Luckham: question, in looking at the big numbers here in terms of the operation of delivery of planning

[0:23:54] Trustee Luckham: services versus the, you know, I have not done an analysis on the revenues, potential revenues here,

[0:24:02] Trustee Luckham: But I think the gap is still wide. And I think that those operational costs, heat, light, computers, coffee, pens, papers, all that stuff is relevant in this conversation that that is part and parcel of fuel costs and mileage and, you know, the list goes on and on and on.

[0:24:22] Trustee Luckham: over and above actual wages.

[0:24:25] Trustee Luckham: I'm just wondering what the director

[0:24:28] Trustee Luckham: has to advise about that.

[0:24:30] Trustee Luckham: And indeed, how can we get this number closer

[0:24:32] Trustee Luckham: so that we don't have to raise this question again?

[0:24:37] Voice 18: Yeah, thank you.

[0:24:39] Voice 18: And through the chair that that is something

[0:24:42] Voice 18: I think the committee could decide

[0:24:44] Voice 18: whether it would like the fees to, again,

[0:24:46] Voice 18: be more refined to include those.

[0:24:48] Voice 18: Coming up with an average,

[0:24:50] Voice 18: you know it's difficult enough just for staff start adding in overhead we'd have to figure

[0:24:56] Voice 18: out a formula to make that work and I know the director of administrative services online so

[0:25:02] Voice 18: maybe she may have some comments on that but yeah happy to do it if it's possible and I'd work with

[0:25:10] Voice 18: the director of administrative services on how to come back with something for you on that

[0:25:14] Voice 18: okay

[0:25:16] Trustee Busheikin: um let's just see if uh we may if um uh director mobs has any comment on that

[0:25:23] Trustee Busheikin: i just saw your face pop up

[0:25:25] Voice 1: yes i turned my video on um so yeah thanks for the question i do think

[0:25:30] Voice 1: there is a way that we can incorporate um some costing for things like travel for site visits

[0:25:36] Voice 1: of course we'd have to have an estimate of you know what's required per different type of

[0:25:41] Voice 1: application. But we could certainly come up with an average. You know, it wouldn't be a perfect

[0:25:47] Voice 1: number. Of course, it would vary based on where staff are traveling to and where they're traveling

[0:25:53] Voice 1: from. But we could add in a number, an estimate. One other thing that I'll just take the opportunity

[0:25:59] Voice 1: to mention is Director Marler had said that the figures we're using here are averages,

[0:26:05] Voice 1: averages, which include, you know, costing for staff who are at a grid nine all the way

[0:26:10] Voice 1: up to a grid 27. And of course, the salary for those different levels of staff is quite

[0:26:15] Voice 1: different. And in many instances, you would actually see far more planner time than planning

[0:26:22] Voice 1: administration time in specific applications. So in my view, a weighted average would be

[0:26:28] Voice 1: more appropriate for this exercise. It's something that we can definitely update, it would probably

[0:26:34] Voice 1: results in an increase to some of these figures and potentially reductions in others. It's another

[0:26:39] Voice 1: thing to consider for the costing.

[0:26:43] Voice 18: And maybe just through the chair, could I ask Julie, would you

[0:26:48] Voice 18: comment on overheads such as fuel and, you know, other administrative staff that get involved and,

[0:26:56] Voice 18: you know, photocopiers and all that kind of stuff?

[0:27:01] Voice 1: Yeah, I mean, again, you know, we could come up

[0:27:03] Voice 1: with a blanket estimate I would hesitate to say it would be accurate but we could definitely build

[0:27:08] Voice 1: in you know even just a lump sum for every type of application simply to have some adjustment for it.

[0:27:16] Voice 1: Okay

[0:27:17] Trustee Busheikin: thank you okay I'm going to go back to Chair Luckum and then Peter Grove.

[0:27:23] Trustee Luckham: Yeah thank you just had a follow-up question on that thank you David so I did just do the

[0:27:29] Trustee Luckham: a number crunch here. The revenues are around $73,000. And I bet you simply maintaining the

[0:27:41] Trustee Luckham: spaces for the planning staff probably exceeds that number on a regular basis. And so really

[0:27:48] Trustee Luckham: want to figure out how we can capture this. And it's not that the Islanders Trust is a business,

[0:27:54] Trustee Luckham: And I recognize that there are benefits to the area broadly that the costs need to cover in the work of the Islands Trust that maybe does not need to be borne by the applicant.

[0:28:08] Trustee Luckham: But honestly, if I was trying to run a business on this model, only this work, I think that I would be finding myself in serious trouble.

[0:28:19] Trustee Luckham: And I would just like to think that we are applying a lens of accountability that does

[0:28:25] Trustee Luckham: justice to the expense of processing applications.

[0:28:29] Trustee Luckham: And even the average overhead associated with inquiries, which in an ideal world, let's

[0:28:38] Trustee Luckham: say half of the inquiries do result in some form of an application coming forward.

[0:28:44] Trustee Luckham: and I know that's been noted before is that inquiries are not accounted for and consumes

[0:28:51] Trustee Luckham: a vast amount of planning staff's time so just trying to get this number to be meaningful in

[0:28:58] Trustee Luckham: in a budget context thank you thank

[0:29:02] Trustee Busheikin: you and just this is a good discussion but also decisions about

[0:29:08] Trustee Busheikin: where we put the numbers finally is probably not is going to come up when we look at the model

[0:29:14] Trustee Busheikin: all fees by law. But this is a good discussion because it's about how we get to those averages.

[0:29:22] Trustee Busheikin: So we have trustee Grove, trustee Longerice, and then I put myself on the speaker's list.

[0:29:28] Trustee Grove: This is a long and slippery conversation. I mean, it's overhead is, maybe I shouldn't have

[0:29:34] Trustee Grove: raised it. But I mean, you know, I've seen all sorts of things. So a typical rule of thumb is

[0:29:40] Trustee Grove: is you just double your payroll to reflect overhead.

[0:29:44] Trustee Grove: Trying to analyze what our overhead is

[0:29:48] Trustee Grove: in a precise kind of way is just a nightmare of a job

[0:29:53] Trustee Grove: and you can't win it.

[0:29:56] Trustee Grove: So, I mean, I think we need to go back

[0:29:58] Trustee Grove: or for me anyway, I need to go back.

[0:30:00] Trustee Grove: to assess just what it is we're trying to do here.

[0:30:02] Trustee Grove: I'd be very interested to know what other planning

[0:30:06] Trustee Grove: departments of municipalities, what they do,

[0:30:08] Trustee Grove: and how they account for their costs,

[0:30:10] Trustee Grove: and how they charge their clients.

[0:30:12] Trustee Grove: But I don't think our purpose is to have a user pay exercise

[0:30:19] Trustee Grove: completely.

[0:30:19] Trustee Grove: I think if we did that, the costs,

[0:30:21] Trustee Grove: people would find prohibitive.

[0:30:25] Trustee Grove: So I'm uncomfortable with this whole thing.

[0:30:28] Trustee Grove: uh we can come up with a rough and ready estimate of overhead and it can be a percentage of paid

[0:30:34] Trustee Grove: of the of the 55 an hour we are looking at um it could be 10 20 30 50 or 100 of that

[0:30:42] Trustee Grove: but um we have to decide what it is that we're trying to do first of all thanks

[0:30:48] Trustee Busheikin: thank you uh trustee longer ice yeah

[0:30:52] Voice 13: yeah i know i i'm supportive of the idea of looking at these

[0:30:56] Voice 13: additional approaches like the staff salary, the waiting model, and also the cost, the overhead

[0:31:02] Voice 13: costs. My only concern is the timeline to do that. Is that a fairly quick process or not? Are we

[0:31:10] Voice 13: going to be spending another year doing this and then coming up with a figure? I mean, I think the

[0:31:16] Voice 13: sooner the better. I mean, in some ways, this is an interim approach. And can we do an interim

[0:31:22] Voice 13: approach and then follow up with these other adjustments when they're done in a in a year or

[0:31:28] Voice 13: so maybe I don't know anyway I'm just concerned that we're just going to delay the process too

[0:31:33] Voice 13: much uh

[0:31:36] Trustee Busheikin: trustee Morrison

[0:31:42] Voice 15: complicated

[0:31:45] Voice 8: technical situation today okay um I I would like to you

[0:31:52] Voice 8: know echo what trustee Latham said I think an interim approach to this is helpful um to

[0:31:58] Voice 8: to understand that we're not looking for perfect, we're looking for better. And then working towards

[0:32:03] Voice 8: the next stage, as we go forward, is get more information, because it is something that we're

[0:32:07] Voice 8: going to have to refine with more and more information that we get. And I respectfully

[0:32:10] Voice 8: really disagree with Trustee Grove, because I just think one of the key things, this idea of cost,

[0:32:19] Voice 8: be clear, somebody is paying this cost. And right now, it's the taxpayers in the trust area.

[0:32:25] Voice 8: So it's either the taxpayers in the trust area or it's the person doing development.

[0:32:30] Voice 8: And if we are in a protect and preserve area, why are we not putting the onus on the person

[0:32:34] Voice 8: doing development?

[0:32:35] Voice 8: I just don't understand that.

[0:32:37] Voice 8: And that's where this question originated for me and why I'm so deeply committed to

[0:32:40] Voice 8: trying to find a good resolution.

[0:32:44] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you.

[0:32:44] Trustee Busheikin: So I put myself on the speaker's list.

[0:32:46] Trustee Busheikin: So just a couple of things I wanted to say.

[0:32:48] Trustee Busheikin: um uh i think the idea that this is um interim uh i mean in a way everything is interim because we

[0:33:01] Trustee Busheikin: do review our work and things change but it's a lot of work has gone into this as i say it's been

[0:33:07] Trustee Busheikin: two years thus far a huge amount of staff time and it still would need to uh be finalized brought

[0:33:12] Trustee Busheikin: to council dealt with at council and and then each individual local trust committee would have to

[0:33:17] Trustee Busheikin: to take it on as a top priority project and put it through the whole community process and all of

[0:33:23] Trustee Busheikin: that. And so it's a lot of resources and quite a bit of time to bring this forward. So I just want

[0:33:31] Trustee Busheikin: to be realistic that it's, you know, it's not, I mean, we're not a business and we can't just

[0:33:37] Trustee Busheikin: change things easily. We're a, we're a government with a lot of processes and, and with a lot of

[0:33:43] Trustee Busheikin: of complexity, you know, 13 local trust committees. So, you know, I'd rather take a little longer

[0:33:51] Trustee Busheikin: to get it right in a way that we think will stick for a while and won't need major overhauls

[0:33:58] Trustee Busheikin: than to just go ahead and do it and say, oh, well, you know, next year we'll open it up again

[0:34:02] Trustee Busheikin: and the year after that we'll open it up again. And I know that the tracking started in June of

[0:34:08] Trustee Busheikin: last year so if we want to wait till the end of June and see what it looks like in a year

[0:34:17] Trustee Busheikin: that I'm just throwing that out there could be one way of doing it and then the other thing I

[0:34:22] Trustee Busheikin: wanted to comment on is what we're trying to do here and why we're doing it and what do other

[0:34:28] Trustee Busheikin: municipalities do and I think you know when this goes to council and maybe there could be a you

[0:34:34] Trustee Busheikin: even a one pager, we, I mean, about the, what other municipalities and regional districts do,

[0:34:39] Trustee Busheikin: because we had a long, a series of discussions about that earlier in this process and really

[0:34:45] Trustee Busheikin: came to the conclusion that we're very different than all those other bodies. We don't have the

[0:34:50] Trustee Busheikin: same kinds of revenues they have. They have all kinds of revenues from, you know, different

[0:34:56] Trustee Busheikin: permitting they do. And, and we don't have the same, I mean, we don't have the same cost,

[0:35:00] Trustee Busheikin: which is very, very different. So it ended up not being that useful. And we keep coming back

[0:35:08] Trustee Busheikin: to that question, but I think the answer will always be the same. There was information brought

[0:35:13] Trustee Busheikin: forward about, for instance, what Bowen does and how they charge. And maybe that just needs to be

[0:35:19] Trustee Busheikin: brought forward again. And what we're trying to do, I think, is increase the amount that the user

[0:35:26] Trustee Busheikin: would pay. But indeed, the question of how much of that and how much we think needs to be paid by

[0:35:34] Trustee Busheikin: the taxpayer versus the individual is a political discussion and a political decision that we

[0:35:41] Trustee Busheikin: probably have quite different views on. And that will ultimately be what we have to decide on and

[0:35:50] Trustee Busheikin: and what we have to vote on.

[0:35:51] Trustee Busheikin: I don't think that there was ever a goal to have it,

[0:35:57] Trustee Busheikin: have the fees cover all the costs of doing business,

[0:36:03] Trustee Busheikin: but we could return to that if we want.

[0:36:07] Trustee Busheikin: Just speaking for myself, I'm not in favor of that.

[0:36:12] Trustee Busheikin: I do think that a fair amount of this

[0:36:15] Trustee Busheikin: and particularly inquiries should be covered

[0:36:19] Trustee Busheikin: by taxes and um uh yeah i'm i'm pretty happy with the general direction so that's my input and let's

[0:36:30] Trustee Busheikin: continue with the discussion i'm going to go to a trustee peterson because he has not spoken yet

[0:36:35] Trustee Busheikin: and then we'll go to grove and luckham thank

[0:36:40] Voice 24: you chair um yeah

[0:36:41] Trustee Busheikin: i mean uh

[0:36:45] Voice 24: is my audio okay

[0:36:47] Trustee Busheikin: there was a there's a little little dicey but so far so good yeah

[0:36:52] Voice 24: i'm hearing a little bit of

[0:36:53] Voice 24: feedback or something um so yeah my perspective is similar to laura to what you just said that the

[0:37:00] Voice 24: the idea behind this project was not to achieve uh you know complete cost recovery but to widen

[0:37:07] Voice 24: or to narrow the gap between um what it's costing the organization to process applications and and

[0:37:15] Voice 24: what the applicants are actually paying so we're working towards closing that gap but not

[0:37:21] Voice 24: you know full complete recovery as far as considering this as a interim measure

[0:37:31] Voice 24: I think that might not be the most helpful way to think about it with there

[0:37:35] Voice 24: has been a lot of work to get us here and I think what director Marla said

[0:37:41] Voice 24: might be a bit more helpful in the way we sort of look at this in that we're

[0:37:48] Voice 24: we're going to need to, the organization is going to need to review the fees from time to time.

[0:37:55] Voice 24: And, you know, he pitched the possibility of once per term, sort of a minimum. And if there's not

[0:38:03] Voice 24: a policy in place to sort of automatically do that every term, perhaps that's what we need to

[0:38:10] Voice 24: think about in terms of keeping this information up to date. Anyway, that's my thoughts. Thank you.

[0:38:17] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you. Okay, Trustee Grove and then Trustee Lockham.

[0:38:22] Trustee Grove: Yes, just a reflection on what you said, Laura. We will not get it right. We can't get it right.

[0:38:29] Trustee Grove: And, you know, we can adjust these things to reflect what we think is reasonable. And secondly,

[0:38:36] Trustee Grove: I mean, it's going to be individual LTCs that make up their minds as to what they're going to

[0:38:40] Trustee Grove: do with this. So I don't think we should be spending too much time on it. But other than

[0:38:47] Trustee Grove: them to have an overall agreement on what we think we're trying to achieve. Thanks.

[0:38:54] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you. So, Chair Luckham, go ahead.

[0:39:00] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Chair. I don't want to harp on this too much, and it sort of feels like that a bit,

[0:39:12] Trustee Luckham: but I want to remind the LTC, and so I apologize for that. I want to remind the LTC

[0:39:18] Trustee Luckham: see that although this has been a two-year process already, where we actually decided to do this.

[0:39:25] Trustee Luckham: And I think Trustee Boucher can probably remember this is like a five to 10-year process to actually

[0:39:31] Trustee Luckham: have this conversation. And I'm so grateful that we are having this conversation. And so to think

[0:39:37] Trustee Luckham: that this might be an interim measure, we might not be necessarily understanding that it took a

[0:39:43] Trustee Luckham: a very long time to get to this place where we could agree on doing it.

[0:39:47] Trustee Luckham: And we still haven't even agreed on how we might do it

[0:39:51] Trustee Luckham: and what the values are that we're basing this on.

[0:39:54] Trustee Luckham: And I just have to say that in the notion of comparing

[0:40:03] Trustee Luckham: to other areas of jurisdiction, we are different.

[0:40:08] Trustee Luckham: We are different by design.

[0:40:10] Trustee Luckham: We are specifically not recovering charges associated with development as a function of development and the tax-based revenue.

[0:40:20] Trustee Luckham: So we are different by design.

[0:40:22] Trustee Luckham: And so there is difficulties with coming to terms with this in the long term.

[0:40:31] Trustee Luckham: The math is pretty simple.

[0:40:33] Trustee Luckham: I've just been doing it on a spreadsheet here on the side of my desk.

[0:40:37] Trustee Luckham: The numbers are so small.

[0:40:38] Trustee Luckham: like honestly so small we're an eight million dollar plus uh budget organization and um seventy

[0:40:47] Trustee Luckham: three thousand dollars in a quarter is what i'm looking at here that's less than three hundred

[0:40:52] Trustee Luckham: thousand dollars annually to offset an eight million dollar budget for which we are a planning

[0:40:58] Trustee Luckham: and land use organization so i think we need to we're not going to get anywhere near close

[0:41:03] Trustee Luckham: but we could we could do better and you know we are a protected area certainly people won't agree

[0:41:13] Trustee Luckham: with me saying that this is a park that we live in but it's about as close as it gets it's a

[0:41:18] Trustee Luckham: protected area and so therefore if we want to do development here unfortunately there we need to be

[0:41:27] Trustee Luckham: able to pay for that preserve and protect peace which is completely clear the province is not

[0:41:34] Trustee Luckham: paying for in the in the revenues that we get from them and in fact we've been we're heading

[0:41:38] Trustee Luckham: we're getting grants from other organizations in order to sustain some of the work which is

[0:41:43] Trustee Luckham: terrific that we're doing that that's a new thing for us but it's still the the gap between

[0:41:50] Trustee Luckham: three hundred thousand dollars annually or say six hundred thousand dollars annually and eight

[0:41:55] Trustee Luckham: million dollars annually is significant. So, I apologize for that, but that's my thinking.

[0:42:02] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you. We have Trustee Longerice and Trustee Grove, and then I'd like to move us on. I feel

[0:42:09] Trustee Busheikin: like, you know, we're talking about the big picture and the, you know, these are things that

[0:42:19] Trustee Busheikin: we have already discussed and I think we've all heard each other's arguments and I think there's

[0:42:25] Trustee Busheikin: a range of beliefs and we will have the discussion again but I also think we're here to look

[0:42:32] Trustee Busheikin: specifically at what's before us and so I'd like us to move on unless there's something

[0:42:37] Trustee Busheikin: particular to this report. So Trustee Longerice go ahead.

[0:42:41] Voice 13: I'll stop at this point in time. I was

[0:42:44] Voice 13: going to comment on what Chair Luckham and Trustee Grove has spoken to but I'll leave it. Okay

[0:42:52] Trustee Busheikin: thank

[0:42:53] Trustee Busheikin: thank you. So let's move on then to the, there's, I think, two or three other documents here

[0:43:01] Trustee Busheikin: where we actually get into the, what we may be doing. So I'll turn it back over to staff to

[0:43:11] Trustee Busheikin: take us into the next phase of this.

[0:43:13] Voice 18: Okay, thank you. I'm actually going to ask Nerissa to speak

[0:43:17] Voice 18: to this. So we got a request for a decision here for the regional planning committee to consider

[0:43:24] Voice 18: the documents attached to it. So you may want to look at those documents first and then come back

[0:43:30] Voice 18: to the RFD. The documents that we have is a revised application processing services and

[0:43:37] Voice 18: development approval information policy. So this is going to be combining three existing policies

[0:43:44] Voice 18: into one and attached to that policy will be the model fees by law and the model development

[0:43:50] Voice 18: approval information by law and then of course consideration of what you want to do with it

[0:43:56] Voice 18: whether you want us to send it to council for march for consideration or just report to council

[0:44:02] Voice 18: in march and do more work on this and then bring it back here before sending to council in june so

[0:44:09] Voice 18: So that's kind of up to you on how you'd like to deal with that.

[0:44:13] Voice 18: So with that, maybe through the chair, I'd ask if Nerissa could take you through.

[0:44:19] Voice 18: Where do you want to start?

[0:44:19] Voice 18: You want to start with the model fees bylaw first and come back to the policy or do the policy and then the fees bylaw?

[0:44:27] Voice 18: I think in my mind, the fees bylaw might make more sense and then you can come back to the policy.

[0:44:33] Voice 3: Sure.

[0:44:34] Voice 18: All right. So is Nerissa there? Can you?

[0:44:38] Voice 22: Yeah, I'm here.

[0:44:39] Voice 22: Okay. Yeah. So, I mean, with respect to the fees policy, there hasn't been much change since it's

[0:44:49] Voice 22: been before you previously, or I mean, yeah, with the policy, but with the model fee bylaw,

[0:45:01] Voice 22: um we we went through it at the the last rpc meeting and and rpc made some suggestions and

[0:45:13] Voice 22: also we have um we have also um i'm just i'm not sure what's up on the screen here i don't think

[0:45:26] Voice 22: that's the model fee by yes

[0:45:27] Voice 18: it is a model fee by law

[0:45:29] Voice 22: okay okay so we we've also consulted a

[0:45:32] Voice 22: legal counsel, so Young and Anderson, we sent it over to them to have a look and they provided

[0:45:38] Voice 22: some suggestions as well. So there have been a few changes that have been made since it was

[0:45:44] Voice 22: before you previously, and those include definitions. So we've identified sort of

[0:45:54] Voice 22: broken out general costs and estimated direct costs. In table 1, 4.1, we've identified a minor

[0:46:10] Voice 22: to be those applications that do not require an OCP. So that would just really be a land use by-law

[0:46:21] Voice 22: change with respect to um um bylaw amendments um in 4.4.1 we have removed the reference to

[0:46:34] Voice 22: as a result of enforcement because as the lawyers have had indicated to us um that the after the fee

[0:46:41] Voice 22: application has to reflect our costs that in fact it is an additional 20 percent cost to us which

[0:46:49] Voice 22: um we can certainly um justify that because it does involve um bylaw and uh and it is additional

[0:46:56] Voice 22: staff time so um but uh so yes like i said it needs to reflect cost and not uh sort of like a

[0:47:04] Voice 22: punitive um uh approach um 5.1 to 5.5 so we've made some changes related to refunds um previously

[0:47:17] Voice 22: previously the model we had a like a fee schedule attached to the model fee bylaw which

[0:47:23] Voice 22: identified different different costs in the process and the thinking was that we would look

[0:47:31] Voice 22: at where we are in the process and um and uh refund whatever was whatever was whatever if

[0:47:41] Voice 22: there was pieces that we had not addressed yet in the process if if the applicant was to to um

[0:47:46] Voice 22: cancel or withdraw their their application so that that was um a little bit cumbersome and

[0:47:53] Voice 22: and also uh our lawyers so our lawyers suggested we make it a little bit more straightforward

[0:48:01] Voice 22: and also um not not tie it directly to a schedule that would have that schedule in the bylaw that

[0:48:16] Voice 22: So we have identified percentages of refunds

[0:48:20] Voice 22: based on when the application is withdrawn.

[0:48:25] Voice 22: So if the application is withdrawn earlier in the process,

[0:48:31] Voice 22: it would be 75%.

[0:48:33] Voice 22: If it's after the staff report has gone to the LTC,

[0:48:37] Voice 22: it would be 50% and 25% once public notice has been sent out.

[0:48:45] Voice 22: and that that is more or less reflective we did look at the fee schedule that we had previously

[0:48:49] Voice 22: adopted and that is is pretty much reflective of those of that of those costs and the costs

[0:48:55] Voice 22: and what would have been spent at those points in the process so the other change that we made was

[0:49:01] Voice 22: in 7.1 and so this was changes to uh the wording related to refunds um and so

[0:49:13] Voice 22: So the idea here is that the onus will be on the individual LTCs to maintain a record of increases over time based on annual CCPI increases.

[0:49:30] Voice 22: And again, so instead of that increase being again tied to this model fee bylaw, it would be something that would be, it would be, or to any model fee bylaw, you would have a base bylaw essentially and maintain a record of that increase over time.

[0:49:51] Voice 22: So, in, you know, year one, you've got your base by law. Year five, you've had a change, an annual increase of a certain percentage, and you apply that percentage to the base amount.

[0:50:06] Voice 22: amount. And I mean, if we were to go to a process whereby we review this every five years or what

[0:50:15] Voice 22: have you, that's when we would change the amounts in the base bylaw, as opposed to having to do it

[0:50:23] Voice 22: annually. So those were really the main changes that were made in the model fee bylaw. There is

[0:50:34] Voice 22: is one uh sort of point um in addition to any any other comments you'll have there's one other point

[0:50:41] Voice 22: for discussion and that's in um table uh in 3.1 table one and so when you look at um down to uh

[0:50:55] Voice 22: temporary type of temporary use permit so if you could just scroll down to temporary use permits

[0:51:00] Voice 22: It's there, Robert.

[0:51:03] Voice 18: It's right on.

[0:51:05] Voice 18: David's doing this.

[0:51:07] Voice 18: It's under column.

[0:51:09] Voice 18: There we go.

[0:51:10] Voice 18: Yeah.

[0:51:11] Voice 22: Yeah.

[0:51:12] Voice 22: Yeah.

[0:51:12] Voice 22: So David and I were giving some thought to this.

[0:51:19] Voice 22: Because at the previous meeting, there was interest from the RPC to include in this list

[0:51:28] Voice 22: of things um for community benefit even though like some of these things do indicate community

[0:51:34] Voice 22: benefit but adding the words um community benefit as well and we're sort of seeing that as being

[0:51:41] Voice 22: problematic because that's very subjective and uh you know difficult to define specifically and

[0:51:48] Voice 22: there could be some challenges around that so we're suggesting that that that what you're what

[0:51:56] Voice 22: what what's being referred to as community benefit actually be spelled out um more specifically

[0:52:03] Voice 22: in this uh in this in this area so if there's there are other things that are being being missed

[0:52:11] Voice 22: that we actually specifically um identify what those are um as opposed to just leaving it kind

[0:52:18] Voice 22: of open for interpretation so that's a point for for conversation um in addition to any other

[0:52:24] Voice 22: questions and comments you might have so

[0:52:27] Voice 18: if i may just through the chair just on that the option

[0:52:31] Voice 18: here is the model bylaw could come up with the definition of community benefit what that means

[0:52:38] Voice 18: and include that in here alternatively we could put a note in here that additional community

[0:52:45] Voice 18: benefits is defined by the local trust committee and that would have to be specified in the

[0:52:50] Voice 18: the fee by-law to make it ascertainable.

[0:52:53] Voice 18: You can't have people guessing

[0:52:55] Voice 18: and you can't allow the local trust committee to say,

[0:52:58] Voice 18: yes, that is, that isn't it.

[0:53:00] Voice 18: You have to be able to read the by-law

[0:53:02] Voice 18: and know, yes, this is how I fit in,

[0:53:04] Voice 18: or no, I don't fit in.

[0:53:06] Voice 18: So we need to be very clear

[0:53:07] Voice 18: of what we mean by community benefit.

[0:53:10] Voice 22: Yeah, actually the other thing I'll point out

[0:53:12] Voice 22: just while we go on here is,

[0:53:14] Voice 22: the amounts that we have identified here

[0:53:17] Voice 22: here are based on analysis and conversation with the RPCs

[0:53:24] Voice 22: and other staff.

[0:53:26] Voice 22: And we do have a breakdown of these costs

[0:53:29] Voice 22: and with the previous discussion,

[0:53:34] Voice 22: what we've got in the cost column is likely to shift

[0:53:38] Voice 22: a little bit depending on where the other conversation lands.

[0:53:43] Voice 22: So I'm

[0:53:52] Trustee Busheikin: just chatting. I'm just chatting. Trustee Dodds-Power went out, but she's still with us,

[0:54:01] Trustee Busheikin: and hopefully that will remain so. So is that, and thank you, Planner Chadwick, and thanks for

[0:54:11] Trustee Busheikin: that very clear review and your work on this. So is that, are we ready to go into discussion?

[0:54:17] Trustee Busheikin: is there anything any other comments from staff uh no okay

[0:54:22] Trustee Busheikin: so what i i think i'd like to start

[0:54:24] Trustee Busheikin: with if people can um just start with um you know any questions for um you know for the planning

[0:54:33] Trustee Busheikin: staff around um you know clarity that kind of thing things you'd understand before we go into

[0:54:38] Trustee Busheikin: the meat of you know this is what i like about it this is what i don't like about it this is where

[0:54:44] Trustee Busheikin: I want to go with it so there any questions particularly for clarity and I see two hands

[0:54:51] Trustee Busheikin: and I'm adding myself three hands so chair Lackham go ahead okay

[0:54:57] Trustee Luckham: thank you again thank you for the

[0:55:00] Trustee Luckham: information about regular updates to the fees I am five years seems like a very long time

[0:55:12] Trustee Luckham: and I'm not totally sure where you concluded that that annual increase might regular increase might

[0:55:19] Trustee Luckham: occur you know there's lots of criticism about the trust budget and that over five years it's

[0:55:26] Trustee Luckham: increased millions of dollars and sorts of things so I think it needs to be a bit more responsive

[0:55:30] Trustee Luckham: and I do wonder and perhaps through the chair director mobs might be able to advise us if the

[0:55:37] Trustee Luckham: the Director of Regional Planning Services could not.

[0:55:40] Trustee Luckham: But is there potential for us to have some kind of built-in annual increase?

[0:55:48] Trustee Luckham: And keeping in mind that this is, if I'm not mistaken, this is an administrative bylaw

[0:55:53] Trustee Luckham: and it's not as difficult to implement through a public process to make changes that might

[0:56:00] Trustee Luckham: be an annual increase.

[0:56:01] Trustee Luckham: Could that be linked to the portion of the budget that is related directly to local planning services?

[0:56:08] Trustee Luckham: Because that would give a sort of an average annual increase in all the areas of regional planning services and would reflect, I think, appropriately onto the fees.

[0:56:18] Trustee Luckham: Is there a way to allow for something like that to reduce the administrative burden of having to update this in some other fashion?

[0:56:27] Voice 18: so if i may uh through the chair maybe maybe respond to that yeah so section 7.1

[0:56:37] Voice 18: of the model bylaw has that but ties it to the annual ccpi and that would take effect on april

[0:56:47] Voice 18: 1st of each year which is the start of the fiscal year for islands trust so what 7.1 says is that

[0:56:55] Voice 18: the fees listed in this bylaw will increase on April 1st of each year in perpetuity as long as

[0:57:02] Voice 18: this bylaw is in effect and those are cumulative obviously right so what will happen under 7.2

[0:57:09] Voice 18: what that says is that the local trust committee will maintain a record of that annual increase

[0:57:15] Voice 18: and make that record available for public inspection so April 1st of each year staff

[0:57:21] Voice 18: staff would do a calculation of the increase for each of those line items in the table,

[0:57:27] Voice 18: reproduce that table and say effective April 1st, 2022, here is the fee schedule for this

[0:57:35] Voice 18: particular local trust committee. And then a year later for 2023, we'll do the same thing again.

[0:57:40] Voice 18: We'll add the next CPI increase and then say, this is a fee schedule for this year,

[0:57:45] Voice 18: effective April 1st. So that is what would happen on an ongoing basis. The question I think you

[0:57:52] Voice 18: might have is, is the annual CCPI appropriate? Or do you want to do something a little different,

[0:58:00] Voice 18: like, for example, recognize that staff cost actually increased by a union agreement, which

[0:58:09] Voice 18: which sometimes looks at the CCPI,

[0:58:13] Voice 18: but usually sets out an actual percentage increase each year,

[0:58:18] Voice 18: which could be higher than the CCPI.

[0:58:22] Voice 18: So you could actually say here,

[0:58:25] Voice 18: the fee increase will be the annual CCPI plus 1%,

[0:58:30] Voice 18: or something like that to capture the fact that the CCPI might be a little bit

[0:58:37] Voice 18: bit lower than our actual cost every year. I hadn't thought about tying it to Ireland's trust

[0:58:45] Voice 18: budget and I'm not sure if we could. I think I'd want legal advice if we're going to go that way

[0:58:51] Voice 18: but we can amend this a little bit to better reflect what you're looking for but 7.1 is

[0:58:57] Voice 18: intended to do that. The five-year thing that Nerissa mentioned I think would be

[0:59:05] Voice 18: reviewing this particular document. So four years down the road, you might want to adopt a new fee

[0:59:12] Voice 18: bylaw, which would incorporate all of the increases and maybe a few more tweaks. And then that would

[0:59:18] Voice 18: start the whole process again of keeping track of it.

[0:59:25] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you. Trustee Stamford.

[0:59:33] Trustee Stamford: Hi, thank you. I've just got a specific question around a couple of questions around that board

[0:59:39] Trustee Stamford: of variance as we don't see it that much. So I just wondered why like what expenses are associated

[0:59:49] Trustee Stamford: with that $2,200 and is there other expenses associated with somebody

[0:59:54] Trustee Stamford: applying for a board of variance that are beyond the Islands Trust?

[1:00:00] Trustee Stamford: per view?

[1:00:01] Voice 18: Right. So the Board of Variants, it's very much like a Development Variance Permit,

[1:00:06] Voice 18: except it's an independent board that the local trust committee appoints. And the board has very

[1:00:13] Voice 18: specific things that they can consider. And they issue an order. They don't actually issue a

[1:00:19] Voice 18: permit. It's an order. And it's not registered against title. So it's actually for the individual.

[1:00:26] Voice 18: it's not really with the land but processing wise it's very similar to a development variance permit

[1:00:33] Voice 18: because we have board members on different islands there could be some travel expenses

[1:00:38] Voice 18: for the board to get together and meet and obviously staff would be at that meeting to

[1:00:44] Voice 18: help run the board meeting so very much like a development variance permit there's a meeting

[1:00:50] Voice 18: the board would have some expenses with going to the site visit and then going to the meeting

[1:00:55] Voice 18: and then our processes around that so it's a little bit higher than a development branch

[1:01:03] Voice 18: permit for that reason

[1:01:04] Trustee Busheikin: okay thank you uh trustee long rice yes

[1:01:12] Voice 13: thank you i've got to find my

[1:01:14] Voice 13: document here uh in what is it no sorry i've lost my uh do

[1:01:23] Trustee Busheikin: you want me to go to the next speaker

[1:01:24] Voice 13: yeah go to the next one yeah um

[1:01:26] Trustee Busheikin: vice chair patrick hi

[1:01:32] Trustee Patrick: i was gonna say uh deb are you able to speak

[1:01:34] Trustee Patrick: or i'm raising my hand for deb morris and i have a question as well but deb has been impacted is

[1:01:39] Trustee Patrick: deb having a call

[1:01:41] Trustee Patrick: she's got the power outage issue unmute and speak i'm

[1:01:48] Trustee Busheikin: here i'm just moving

[1:01:49] Trustee Busheikin: out of the bright sunlight can you hear me yes great

[1:01:56] Voice 8: thank you sorry great technology day um

[1:01:59] Voice 8: All right. So my question was really around table two. And I'll just keep it to a question at this point. So on table two, I was just curious about the breakdown of all the different pieces and their relationship to the cost and wondering why there's that much detail, given that, like, for instance, under 11, where you have these other permits.

[1:02:23] Voice 8: I heard what you were saying when you introduced it, but I'm just curious, like, there is in the policy above some kind of statement about if there is community benefit, that it could be, LTC could decide on it.

[1:02:35] Voice 8: So I'm curious why all the different types of permits were listed specifically, if there was a reasoning behind that.

[1:02:44] Voice 18: So maybe I can, through a chair, comment.

[1:02:48] Voice 18: Yeah.

[1:02:49] Voice 18: Yeah. The existing fee bylaws on most or some local trust committees do have different temporary

[1:02:57] Voice 18: use permit fees for different types of uses, residential being one, commercial is higher.

[1:03:03] Voice 18: So that's why some of these are in here. It's kind of capturing what's already there

[1:03:07] Voice 18: to make sure that we're addressing that. And then the other piece I think is more of a political

[1:03:13] Voice 18: decision there was a request for additional community benefits support or create employment

[1:03:20] Voice 18: or increase food security those were specifically added in at the request of the regional planning

[1:03:26] Voice 18: committee at a previous meeting so i think that is obviously open for debate as to what you want

[1:03:32] Voice 18: to do here you could as you say in policy allow local trust committees to reduce temporary use

[1:03:38] Voice 18: permit fees by a certain amount for particular reasons, or you could offer something in the

[1:03:44] Voice 18: model policy as what you think would be something they could consider. Model bylaws, sorry, not

[1:03:52] Voice 18: policy.

[1:03:53] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you. Okay. Trustee Longerise, are you set up now? Yeah.

[1:03:59] Trustee Busheikin: Well, sorry. Can I,

[1:04:00] Trustee Busheikin: oh, I was going to say, I had a question too.

[1:04:03] Trustee Patrick: Okay. Let's go back to you. I had double duty

[1:04:06] Trustee Patrick: Judy there.

[1:04:07] Trustee Patrick: Go ahead.

[1:04:08] Trustee Patrick: Sorry, Case.

[1:04:10] Trustee Patrick: Kind of following up on that same vein, but so my understanding, I mean, I understand the complexity of the community benefit statement, but I think we had discussed before.

[1:04:22] Trustee Patrick: So we could, through the sponsorship avenue, a local trust committee could deal with community benefit on any of these application fees.

[1:04:34] Trustee Patrick: Is that correct?

[1:04:37] Voice 18: Yes.

[1:04:38] Voice 18: the community benefit policy is limited to non-profit organizations or taxpayer-funded

[1:04:44] Voice 18: organizations so a landowner couldn't take advantage of that however they might be applying

[1:04:52] Voice 18: for a temporary use permit that you could see as having a community benefit so they'd be shut out

[1:05:00] Trustee Busheikin: okay can we go to taste now let's do that you've got the floor thank

[1:05:07] Voice 13: you yeah i've got just a

[1:05:09] Voice 13: couple of general comments and more more detailed comments which I guess we're going to talk about

[1:05:14] Voice 13: after this is just sort of a general approach

[1:05:17] Trustee Busheikin: I what I was hoping in the beginning would be

[1:05:19] Trustee Busheikin: the questions for clarification and then getting to the meat of it which is what do we think of

[1:05:24] Trustee Busheikin: this where do we want to take it

[1:05:25] Voice 13: yeah okay okay in terms of the application process I just find

[1:05:32] Voice 13: some of the definitions a little bit confusing where we define application processing fee

[1:05:39] Voice 13: and the bylaw also speaks to extraordinary service costs but in some of the places it appears

[1:05:47] Voice 13: they're brought together and yet they're actually two different fees and I think that some of the

[1:05:54] Voice 13: I think there needs to be some changes to the bylaw to just sort of clarify the difference

[1:05:59] Voice 13: between the two and how they're treated the other thing is that the recovery

[1:06:06] Voice 13: agreement that you know that's a process and there's also the ability for people

[1:06:11] Voice 13: to pay upfront and I think that the recovery process doesn't really address

[1:06:18] Voice 13: when it's a recovery agreement or when you want a refund you know how there's

[1:06:24] Voice 13: There's nothing about adjusting the recovery agreement

[1:06:28] Voice 13: because I'm presuming there's an amount

[1:06:31] Voice 13: in the recovery agreement.

[1:06:32] Voice 13: We're gonna establish that there's another public hearing

[1:06:35] Voice 13: required and presumably go through the process

[1:06:38] Voice 13: and get the recovery agreement approved

[1:06:40] Voice 13: and then signed off for a specific amount.

[1:06:45] Voice 13: And then the question becomes,

[1:06:49] Voice 13: we've got this recovery agreement that says X dollars,

[1:06:52] Voice 13: but in fact, it's not there.

[1:06:54] Voice 13: it may be half the amount and presumably then we would have to

[1:06:59] Voice 13: deal with that. How do we manage that? So it's just a lack of clarity around that.

[1:07:04] Voice 13: Also I'm assuming there's going to be multiple agreements done. I'm assuming during the process

[1:07:12] Voice 13: it may come up that we need to do a site visit, our First Nations site visit, and then later

[1:07:18] Voice 13: down the process you're going to need to do an extra public hearing or a CIM and are we going to

[1:07:25] Voice 13: just amend the agreement or are we going to do multiple agreements and that's just not clear to

[1:07:31] Voice 13: me so maybe

[1:07:33] Trustee Busheikin: we could pause and and let staff clarify a couple of those points yeah yeah yeah

[1:07:38] Trustee Busheikin: yeah good questions so

[1:07:40] Voice 18: all of that is covered in section six of the bylaws so 6.1 just says when

[1:07:47] Voice 18: a cost recovery or an extraordinary cost cut is going to be required. 6.2, 6.3, and 6.4 are

[1:07:54] Voice 18: specific ones. So 6.2 is legal work, 6.3 is site visits for First Nations, and 6.4 deals with

[1:08:03] Voice 18: additional community information meetings or public hearings. And then 6.5 just indicates

[1:08:08] Voice 18: there could be other costs which are beyond any of that, right? So it's not part of the application.

[1:08:16] Voice 18: Maybe it's a major report that's required

[1:08:19] Voice 18: that we're going to have to get.

[1:08:22] Voice 18: So, and then 6.6 lays out how that happens.

[1:08:25] Voice 18: So essentially we'll identify what's required

[1:08:29] Voice 18: and get an estimate of the cost and then request that,

[1:08:33] Voice 18: sorry, yeah, then request that the applicant

[1:08:37] Voice 18: provide a deposit of 150% of that estimate.

[1:08:41] Voice 18: So 50% over that, and that's to allow for overages

[1:08:45] Voice 18: of the estimate if it happens and then 6.6 says that you know if they've paid the money and we

[1:08:54] Voice 18: end up finding out that our estimate was severely under and we're going to go over then essentially

[1:09:00] Voice 18: we're going to stop work and say to the applicant you need to provide more information more money

[1:09:06] Voice 18: and that is in the agreement the agreement will actually state that and ideally we would then

[1:09:13] Voice 18: get that money and then continue the work if for some reason we didn't then 6.6 allows the local

[1:09:19] Voice 18: trust committee to withhold consideration of the permit or rezoning whatever it is pending receipt

[1:09:27] Voice 18: of that information sorry repeat receipt of that owed money and then 6.7 just indicates

[1:09:35] Voice 18: if we underspend it then we're going to return any of the remaining money back to the applicant

[1:09:42] Voice 18: to answer your question um you know if we knew all of this at once we could do one cost recovery for

[1:09:48] Voice 18: all of it um

[1:09:49] Voice 18: but we could do one say for first nations and then down the road we might find

[1:09:54] Voice 18: there's a requirement for an additional public hearing so we do a separate cost agreement for

[1:10:00] Voice 18: that one and um and work that way so it's flexible we can go either way

[1:10:05] Voice 18: uh

[1:10:06] Voice 13: and just as a follow-up to that then the recovery agreement will include the 150 percent

[1:10:12] Voice 13: estimate yeah

[1:10:15] Voice 18: yeah so

[1:10:16] Voice 13: and that's before it actually occurs so then there'll be some

[1:10:19] Voice 13: reconciliation of the amount in the agreement if it turns out that it's more or less correct

[1:10:26] Voice 18: yeah so what happens is let's say we think it's going to cost a thousand dollars for a community

[1:10:32] Voice 18: information meeting then the applicant will deposit 1500 we'll run the meeting at the end

[1:10:39] Voice 18: of the meeting our accounting department will tell us what it ended up costing um if it's under

[1:10:45] Voice 18: we'll refund if it's over we'll advise the applicant they owe us this additional amount

[1:10:51] Voice 18: and we'd also advise local trust committee not to issue any permits until that's we got that money

[1:10:57] Voice 18: that's the way it's supposed to work

[1:10:59] Voice 18: yeah

[1:11:00] Voice 13: that's for when they pay it up front

[1:11:02] Voice 13: what I'm talking about is the recovery agreement

[1:11:05] Voice 13: it would

[1:11:07] Voice 18: always be paid up front

[1:11:09] Voice 13: so the recovery agreement is done as well as being paid up front

[1:11:12] Voice 13: yeah

[1:11:13] Voice 18: exactly

[1:11:14] Voice 18: the agreement

[1:11:15] Voice 18: just sets out how much they've paid us

[1:11:18] Voice 18: and the agreement is that

[1:11:21] Voice 18: if we underspend we'll give back

[1:11:24] Voice 18: and if we overspend they're going to owe us more

[1:11:27] Voice 18: so the agreement comes with

[1:11:28] Voice 13: the check okay that's where i got confused and because it talks about

[1:11:32] Voice 13: paying up front or entering into a recovery oh

[1:11:35] Voice 18: okay uh maybe that to me

[1:11:38] Voice 18: that and i'm

[1:11:39] Trustee Busheikin: just if i

[1:11:40] Trustee Busheikin: may i'm gonna step in here and just say like i i'll i've got myself on the speakers and a lot

[1:11:45] Trustee Busheikin: of my questions are around the same uh uh issue um than what i just have like written here what

[1:11:51] Trustee Busheikin: what is the difference? I'm looking at 6.111, 6.12. And, you know, I couldn't understand it

[1:11:57] Trustee Busheikin: and case couldn't, and we're kind of fairly used to dealing with these detailed things. And so I

[1:12:03] Voice 15: can't

[1:12:03] Trustee Busheikin: imagine that member of the public necessarily always being able to understand it also. So

[1:12:08] Trustee Busheikin: maybe we could just send this back and say, could it be made more clear? What is the difference

[1:12:18] Trustee Busheikin: difference between it seems like there's two options there's the cost recovery agreement

[1:12:23] Trustee Busheikin: versus the like i don't even know um so could we just ask that it go back to have that really

[1:12:30] Trustee Busheikin: clarified yeah

[1:12:32] Voice 12: we'll correct that

[1:12:33] Trustee Busheikin: yeah and maybe when it comes back to council there could be an

[1:12:37] Trustee Busheikin: faq like you're hearing what the literally what the frequently asked questions are um and yeah

[1:12:44] Trustee Busheikin: Yeah, so maybe there could be an FAQ when it comes back to council.

[1:12:47] Trustee Busheikin: I don't want to load stuff with too much work,

[1:12:48] Trustee Busheikin: but that might be something that could be adapted into something

[1:12:51] Trustee Busheikin: that's on the website for applicants who some are professional developers,

[1:12:56] Trustee Busheikin: but a lot of them are not.

[1:12:59] Trustee Busheikin: And it saves our staff time when the applicants understand this.

[1:13:05] Trustee Busheikin: It saves a lot of staff time and just makes for better relations.

[1:13:09] Trustee Busheikin: So that's what I would suggest.

[1:13:11] Trustee Busheikin: just?

[1:13:12] Voice 18: Yeah, that 611, 612, we need to look at that. It's probably an oversight by combining

[1:13:19] Voice 18: three policies together. I think we just missed that. That's created a confusion. I think we can

[1:13:25] Voice 18: simplify that.

[1:13:26] Trustee Busheikin: Okay. Okay.

[1:13:28] Voice 18: So we can do that. Yeah.

[1:13:29] Trustee Busheikin: Okay. And Case, did you have anything else?

[1:13:32] Voice 13: Yeah. I just wanted a question around the 20% surcharge for completed or operating work.

[1:13:40] Voice 13: So legal counsel is of the view that Section 462 of the Local Government Act allows for this extra charge, because the surcharge is an extra charge, and subsection 5 says you can't do any other extra charges.

[1:13:58] Voice 13: You can't apply any extra tax or other charges, and we're supposed to be providing the maximum is the average cost.

[1:14:07] Voice 13: So the average

[1:14:09] Voice 13: cost is what we're working towards and yet now we're saying we can go beyond the average cost by 20%.

[1:14:15] Voice 13: Yeah.

[1:14:18] Voice 18: So that section 4.1 is legal on the basis that the cost to us for processing applications that are after the fact is higher than it would be otherwise.

[1:14:34] Voice 18: wise and we're using an average of 20 percent I think what we could do though if if the word

[1:14:41] Voice 18: surcharge is causing a problem we can just reword that just to say that the fee will be 20 percent

[1:14:48] Voice 18: higher than indicated in the table above yeah

[1:14:52] Voice 13: do we need to rationalize what those costs are

[1:14:55] Voice 13: exclusive of bylaw enforcement because we've removed that which presumably is problematic

[1:15:00] Voice 13: that could we're not there

[1:15:01] Voice 13: to recover by law enforcement action is my understanding nope we

[1:15:06] Voice 18: don't have to our by law enforcement will be involved in the processing of the application

[1:15:10] Voice 18: so there will be additional staff time and there's usually a lot more public

[1:15:17] Voice 18: engagement required so that causes more yeah okay

[1:15:21] Voice 13: we don't have to

[1:15:22] Voice 18: rationalize it that was

[1:15:23] Voice 13: the clarifications ideas to the rationale yeah thank

[1:15:27] Trustee Busheikin: you um okay and i had myself on the speaker's

[1:15:30] Trustee Busheikin: list and i'm the last person with the questions of clarification so then we can um go on to a

[1:15:36] Trustee Busheikin: discussion of uh you know what we actually think about all of this and what we want to do um i had

[1:15:41] Trustee Busheikin: just a couple questions um one is if you look at uh what is it table one uh which is of course

[1:15:48] Trustee Busheikin: important table under the temporary use permits um just to note that there's a number missing

[1:15:54] Trustee Busheikin: there there's 11 and then there's blank so the whole thing would have to be renumbered

[1:15:58] Trustee Busheikin: but we had talked about needing a separate uh two kinds of temporary use permit renewal fees

[1:16:04] Trustee Busheikin: because the um there's kind of two categories of temporary use permits standard and then the ones

[1:16:13] Trustee Busheikin: that have the you know shall we call it community benefit for now and that it didn't we'd already

[1:16:20] Trustee Busheikin: discussed this and i believe there there was a resolution made to to bring back an alternate

[1:16:25] Trustee Busheikin: number for the second type of temporary use permit so that you're not paying more to renew it than

[1:16:31] Trustee Busheikin: you paid at it so there should be a lower renewal number that is enter it with the way the the

[1:16:38] Trustee Busheikin: the initial fee you understand what i'm getting at i think i do that

[1:16:43] Trustee Busheikin: needs to be done and um just

[1:16:48] Trustee Busheikin: another and this is maybe part of that um you know confusion that happens when you mush a bunch of

[1:16:54] Trustee Busheikin: things together but if you look at item 6.6 i found that really really confusing because it's

[1:17:00] Trustee Busheikin: talking about um if the islands trust ends up paying less than what the applicant put up i

[1:17:12] Trustee Busheikin: think this is what it means if the app if the islands trust doesn't pay as much as what the

[1:17:17] Trustee Busheikin: applicant has paid in advance um the islands trust shall provide the applicant with the amount

[1:17:24] Trustee Busheikin: that sounds fine you're getting it back but then it says and the application which i think

[1:17:28] Trustee Busheikin: should supposed to be applicant shall pay the amount upon receipt like it just gets very

[1:17:33] Trustee Busheikin: confusing and then the local trust committee may withhold the consideration of the permit until the

[1:17:39] Trustee Busheikin: um amount has been paid so it seems to be talking about when the applicant is paid more than what

[1:17:44] Trustee Busheikin: is needed but then it seems to switch into paying into when the applicant's owing money and so i'm

[1:17:50] Trustee Busheikin: just i would like just to ask that you have a good look at that one again and if you don't

[1:17:55] Trustee Busheikin: understand what's not clear if you can call me or yeah there

[1:18:00] Voice 18: is a there is definitely a typo in

[1:18:03] Voice 18: there because if the amount paid by the islands trust doesn't make sense it should be of the

[1:18:07] Voice 18: amount paid to the islands trust

[1:18:09] Voice 15: in

[1:18:10] Voice 18: respect of extraordinary service cost is less than the

[1:18:13] Voice 18: deposit the islands trust shall provide the applicant with the amount yeah

[1:18:18] Trustee Busheikin: okay it still

[1:18:19] Trustee Busheikin: yeah

[1:18:20] Voice 18: no actually it does

[1:18:22] Voice 18: work we'll reword it but it does reword it if

[1:18:26] Voice 18: you can maybe

[1:18:27] Trustee Busheikin: reword it and

[1:18:27] Trustee Busheikin: just just if you remember uh yeah send

[1:18:32] Trustee Busheikin: it back to me so that we don't spend more meeting time on it

[1:18:35] Trustee Busheikin: and yeah i

[1:18:36] Trustee Busheikin: can just make sure that i i feel it makes sense and that yeah

[1:18:39] Voice 18: what it's saying is um

[1:18:41] Voice 18: you know if we had like a legal fee for example so the amount so you could read this if the amount

[1:18:46] Voice 18: paid by the islands trust to a lot to our lawyers in respect of extraordinary cost charge is less

[1:18:51] Voice 18: than the deposit then uh we'll let the applicant know anyway we'll we'll rewrite this to make it

[1:18:58] Voice 4: clear thanks

[1:18:58] Voice 18: yeah 6.6 is about if we don't get enough money from the applicant and we overspend

[1:19:04] Voice 18: and so

[1:19:05] Voice 6: okay um

[1:19:06] Voice 18: yeah and 6.7 is if it's less so we'll make that work okay

[1:19:11] Trustee Busheikin: yeah it looks like 6.6

[1:19:12] Trustee Busheikin: is kind of mushing them both together so yes i trust you to fix that um okay there's two more

[1:19:18] Trustee Busheikin: hands up um is this i just gonna pause us is this are these questions for clarification are we ready

[1:19:24] Trustee Busheikin: to go more into the meat of the discussion my question is for

[1:19:27] Voice 6: clarification of the policy

[1:19:29] Voice 6: of the policy okay and my turn sure okay uh on page 21

[1:19:38] Voice 6: one uh 1.2 talks about the initial application and the application fee required and then 1.3

[1:19:47] Voice 6: processing service application fee required and i wondered whether um rather than application

[1:19:54] Voice 6: fee required whether it could say included in the initial application fee that one and the public

[1:20:01] Voice 6: hearing and the community information because it almost sounds like there's an additional fee

[1:20:05] Voice 6: fee required.

[1:20:06] Voice 18: Yeah, that's a good point. I think in the early drafts of the fee bylaw,

[1:20:13] Voice 18: there was an intention to have an initial fee and then a processing fee. And then we've dropped

[1:20:19] Voice 18: that for a more simplified version. So I agree, we should probably indicate this is included in

[1:20:25] Voice 18: the application fee. So we will redo those headings to reflect that. I'll make a note of that.

[1:20:31] Voice 18: Okay,

[1:20:32] Voice 6: and I had one other comment in the processing service. Would we also be looking at First Nations sites. So would we be reviewing some of the, the data on whether the that application was on a site that could have First Nations remains or First Nations importance.

[1:20:55] Voice 18: Sorry, which section are we in?

[1:20:56] Voice 6: in sorry 1.3 the processing service we talk about referring to other agencies and and all of those

[1:21:04] Voice 6: kinds of things but i'm just wondering whether that is the place where we would also be ensuring

[1:21:10] Voice 6: that there is not a first nations site or that we would be looking to see whether there is or not

[1:21:20] Voice 6: right

[1:21:21] Voice 18: okay uh the intent is that those would be covered through extraordinary cost recovery

[1:21:28] Voice 6: right but how would we know unless we actually look to at some point in the process to determine

[1:21:35] Voice 6: that there is a site yeah

[1:21:37] Voice 18: so and so we would do that at staff level so if we know through the um

[1:21:43] Voice 18: the RAD database that there's a site close by,

[1:21:47] Voice 18: we would consult with our First Nation specialist

[1:21:52] Voice 18: on the best approach to dealing with this.

[1:21:54] Voice 18: It might just be a referral to the First Nation

[1:21:57] Voice 18: or it might

[1:21:58] Voice 18: be a request that they do a site visit.

[1:22:00] Voice 18: And if there is a request for a site visit,

[1:22:02] Voice 18: we'd let the landowner know

[1:22:03] Voice 18: and give them an estimate of the cost

[1:22:05] Voice 18: and ask for them to cover that cost.

[1:22:08] Voice 6: Right.

[1:22:09] Voice 6: Right. And what I'm saying is, should we add a 1.39 or whatever there to indicate that that's

[1:22:16] Voice 6: what we're doing?

[1:22:17] Voice 18: Okay, I see what you're saying, that we would check for First Nations. Yeah,

[1:22:23] Voice 18: I think we can put that in. I think to me, that is just part of the comprehensive staff assessment

[1:22:29] Voice 18: where we would identify that. But we can put something in here that just references,

[1:22:35] Voice 18: versus, you know, check on First Nations interest or something like that.

[1:22:41] Trustee Busheikin: Okay. Okay. And, you know,

[1:22:42] Trustee Busheikin: I'm just going to step in here because actually we had said that we deal with

[1:22:47] Trustee Busheikin: the policy later and we're just to try and keep us a little bit on track.

[1:22:52] Trustee Busheikin: So I'm going to ask if you keep other comments on the policy,

[1:22:55] Trustee Busheikin: keep them aside for now, because we're looking at the model fees bylaw.

[1:23:00] Trustee Busheikin: And, and I do have actually one more question.

[1:23:03] Trustee Busheikin: I put myself on the speaker's list and said I was done,

[1:23:06] Trustee Busheikin: but I realized I have one more question.

[1:23:08] Trustee Busheikin: So I'm just gonna look at that again,

[1:23:10] Trustee Busheikin: looking at table one, other permits 12,

[1:23:13] Trustee Busheikin: citing and use permit.

[1:23:16] Trustee Busheikin: The average number for citing and use permits

[1:23:19] Trustee Busheikin: back in the first document we looked at

[1:23:21] Trustee Busheikin: was just under $400.

[1:23:22] Trustee Busheikin: So this is like three times as much as that.

[1:23:26] Trustee Busheikin: And it's five or six times more

[1:23:30] Trustee Busheikin: than what's currently being charged

[1:23:32] Trustee Busheikin: for siting and use permits on the two islands that use them, which just gave me pause. And I'm

[1:23:38] Trustee Busheikin: wondering what the rationale was. I understand the rationale for making the fees by law numbers

[1:23:47] Trustee Busheikin: higher generally than the averages created over whatever, eight months of sampling or six months

[1:23:55] Trustee Busheikin: of sampling. That totally makes sense. But this is, as I say, about three times as much. So I'm

[1:23:59] Trustee Busheikin: if there was a particular rationale for that go ahead a planner chat yeah

[1:24:03] Voice 18: we wanted to get your

[1:24:04] Voice 18: attention yeah that's

[1:24:06] Voice 22: right um so that that amount actually is reflective and actually it it's

[1:24:12] Voice 22: actually not completely reflective um it recognizes uh planner trap the planner travel to the island

[1:24:19] Voice 22: for a site visit so that is actually so it would if you were actually to factor in the actual cost

[1:24:26] Voice 22: it would be substantially higher than what is actually indicated in this table so that

[1:24:31] Voice 22: that's where that comes from okay so

[1:24:34] Voice 18: actually

[1:24:34] Voice 22: go ahead

[1:24:36] Voice 18: i just yeah it's fantastic i'm just

[1:24:38] Voice 18: wondering if that might actually be a typo though because i thought it was 250 dollars is the

[1:24:43] Voice 18: any original drafts and i wonder we actually accidentally added a one here

[1:24:48] Voice 18: so i think we should look at it because um when i'm looking at processing of site use permits

[1:24:54] Voice 18: It's around $400 right now.

[1:24:57] Voice 22: Yeah, but yeah, I mean,

[1:24:58] Voice 22: I think it did accommodate that travel.

[1:25:00] Voice 22: Oh, okay.

[1:25:00] Voice 18: We did do a breakdown.

[1:25:01] Voice 22: We did do a table, so we can have a look.

[1:25:05] Voice 22: That's what I remember, that higher number reflecting.

[1:25:09] Voice 18: So these only apply to Denman and Hornby,

[1:25:11] Voice 18: so we need to keep

[1:25:12] Voice 22: that in mind.

[1:25:12] Voice 18: Yeah, because

[1:25:15] Trustee Busheikin: currently it's $220 on Denman

[1:25:17] Trustee Busheikin: and $176 on Hornby for a setting and use permit.

[1:25:20] Trustee Busheikin: But I'm kind of straying away

[1:25:22] Trustee Busheikin: from the questions of clarification

[1:25:23] Trustee Busheikin: clarification, and I should not do that. So, I'd like to invite general comments. I'll go ahead,

[1:25:31] Trustee Fast: Chair Fast. Thank you. I just have one clarification question about siting and use

[1:25:36] Trustee Fast: permits. As I understand it, they're going to be phased out within about two years. Is that correct?

[1:25:44] Voice 18: Nope. You're thinking of, what's it called, long-use contracts.

[1:25:50] Voice 18: tracks. Thank you.

[1:25:51] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, I'm done. Okay. So what I'm going to suggest is a five minute bio break,

[1:25:57] Trustee Busheikin: and we can collect our thoughts, and then come back and let's let's get into any action we want

[1:26:03] Trustee Busheikin: to take this. I mean, there will have to go back to the policy. But this is the this is the core,

[1:26:09] Trustee Busheikin: this is the key of what we we ultimately are going to be recommending in some form. So let's do that

[1:26:15] Trustee Busheikin: biobreak come back in five minutes, which is 25 to 12, and then maybe aim for about a 45-minute

[1:26:24] Trustee Busheikin: discussion and then a lunch break. So lunch break 1215 to 1230, depending on how the discussion

[1:26:31] Trustee Busheikin: goes. Okay, thanks.

[1:26:34] Voice 12: Sounds good.

[1:26:40] Voice 9: Hey, Robert, are you there?

[1:26:47] Voice 21: Yes, I am. Hey,

[1:26:49] Voice 8: we're still no power

[1:26:51] Voice 8: hour here. So I might have to relocate and try and get on again. It's been a weird day

[1:26:56] Voice 8: for technology today. But I'll try to keep on the phone. Okay.

[1:27:06] Voice 8: Oh, one other thing. Do you want me

[1:27:08] Voice 8: to text you if I want to talk? I don't want to break into the conversation. I don't know how

[1:27:12] Voice 8: to handle putting my hand up.

[1:27:17] Voice 21: Yes, you could send an email to me. I won't be able to have access to

[1:27:24] Voice 21: to text messages.

[1:27:26] Trustee Busheikin: Deb, this is Laura. You could text me. I just want to make sure because I

[1:27:32] Trustee Busheikin: actually turned my phone right off. So I'll make sure that it will at least vibrate. You can text

[1:27:39] Trustee Busheikin: me and or me. Yeah, I mean, and I know it does feel awkward, but I find sometimes with Zoom

[1:27:49] Trustee Busheikin: meetings is just necessary to say excuse me and kind of just jump in there um yeah it's uh it's

[1:27:57] Trustee Busheikin: okay

[1:27:58] Voice 9: i'll try that

[1:28:04] Voice 3: yeah and before you go apparently power will be back on at one

[1:28:08] Voice 3: they're working on the lines that's why it's out oh

[1:28:12] Voice 9: are you out too oh

[1:28:13] Voice 3: yeah all the islands are out

[1:28:14] Voice 3: till one o'clock they say

[1:28:16] Voice 9: okay okay thank you not

[1:28:36] Voice 14: all the islands hi

[1:29:19] Voice 23: robert it's dan uh no it's weird

[1:29:22] Voice 23: it was there earlier today and now it's just gone i don't know and i can't find it anywhere

[1:29:27] Voice 21: that is perplexing it is as

[1:29:31] Voice 23: i said it was here and was on the bottom etc etc and now it's just

[1:29:36] Voice 23: gone. So I'll just have to do it manually. I don't know why. I even logged

[1:29:40] Voice 23: out and logged

[1:29:42] Voice 23: back in and it's still gone.

[1:29:44] Voice 21: That is perplexing. I have not received any other message from anyone

[1:29:49] Voice 21: else indicating that that's happened. You might try to reach out to Mark VanBakel.

[1:29:56] Voice 23: Anyway, I'll just put my, I'll just let the chair know. And if I

[1:30:00] Voice 23: I have anything to say I've been fairly quiet today anyway but I'll put my hand up manually

[1:30:05] Voice 23: but it's it's just the weirdest thing and I've looked everywhere on my screen yes and I've

[1:30:12] Voice 21: obviously you've stopped the program then restarted and that sometimes fixes things

[1:30:18] Voice 21: but that didn't do this time

[1:30:19] Voice 23: no and I've I've exited I've gone to the participants I've gone

[1:30:25] Voice 23: to the panel panelists i've gone to i've gone to everything and it's just gone it's not the

[1:30:32] Voice 23: chat function the participants function anyway it's fine that's fine i just wondered if there

[1:30:37] Voice 23: was something i was missing uh

[1:30:39] Voice 21: no and i haven't heard of anyone else having that issue so it's

[1:30:45] Voice 21: not system-wide i'm

[1:30:49] Voice 23: sure it's i don't know maybe i need to reboot my computer i don't know maybe

[1:30:53] Voice 23: I'll try that we got a few minutes that

[1:30:55] Voice 21: that is a possibility there are some issues with people

[1:30:58] Voice 21: and their power so when in doubt unplug and start all over again or restart rather

[1:32:26] Voice 15: back here well

[1:32:50] Trustee Busheikin: it's been five minutes but it looks like a lot of people aren't back

[1:32:54] Trustee Busheikin: oh they're coming back madam

[1:33:31] Voice 23: chair if I may ask you a question I'm I know I've been fairly quiet

[1:33:35] Voice 23: today and that's that's okay but I may have some comments my my raise hand function has disappeared

[1:33:41] Voice 23: off my computer saw

[1:33:43] Voice 9: that it's

[1:33:44] Voice 23: weirdest thing and I just rebooted my computer and it's gone

[1:33:47] Voice 23: so if you see me waving my hand I apologize

[1:33:50] Trustee Busheikin: I also yeah and I have had that happen to me and

[1:33:54] Trustee Busheikin: I don't know and it just one day came like the next day it was back um uh it is a funny world

[1:34:01] Trustee Busheikin: world this zoom world so yes I will look for your hand waving as I said to Deb Morrison who's also

[1:34:08] Trustee Busheikin: having technical challenges I know we're all well brought up not to interrupt and we respect

[1:34:13] Trustee Busheikin: meeting protocol but at the same time if you just need to say excuse me madam chair to get my

[1:34:20] Trustee Busheikin: attention and just butt in it's contextually it's it's appropriate and also I do have my phone

[1:34:28] Trustee Busheikin: beside me i put it on vibrate mode and so you can text me 250-218-3216 now i've got like three i've

[1:34:37] Trustee Busheikin: got my computer i've got my ipad with my meeting package and my phone going i'm a modern person

[1:34:43] Trustee Busheikin: you

[1:34:44] Voice 23: are like a technological marvel

[1:34:48] Trustee Busheikin: it's all hanging by a very thin thread i

[1:34:51] Voice 23: mean it's just the weirdest thing as i was telling robert

[1:34:53] Voice 23: it was there for the first hour and then

[1:34:57] Voice 23: it just wasn't there and now i can't get it to come back

[1:35:01] Voice 23: so anyway well

[1:35:03] Trustee Busheikin: yeah i don't know what that means i'm not going to read any symbolism into it

[1:35:10] Trustee Busheikin: um and do we have um let's

[1:35:13] Voice 23: see the world is telling me i

[1:35:16] Trustee Busheikin: i don't know if it is though

[1:35:18] Trustee Busheikin: maybe it's telling you to try harder to speak no

[1:35:20] Voice 23: no the world is telling me to shut up

[1:35:24] Trustee Busheikin: um okay we've got oh now i've just lost everyone can you hear me we're still here

[1:35:37] Trustee Busheikin: oh okay i can hear you okay i just lost the visuals i'll see if i can get them back yep

[1:35:43] Trustee Busheikin: there they are see talking about random weird technological things that's what just happened

[1:35:51] Trustee Busheikin: and um okay I see so I would um sorry I will in a minute reconvene the meeting I just want to get

[1:36:04] Trustee Busheikin: everything on my screen and um yeah I think that most of us are back so and I would like it's it's

[1:36:16] Trustee Busheikin: it's been 10 minutes. So I'd like us to get moving again. And so yeah, we've got this model fees

[1:36:22] Trustee Busheikin: bylaw. There was plenty of discussion when we looked at the, you know, the estimates or the

[1:36:31] Trustee Busheikin: tracking document, and a few suggestions that to me would suggest maybe people do want to send this

[1:36:39] Trustee Busheikin: Back for one more review, there was a suggestion of including some kind of percentage for just general overhead and, yeah, general overhead, all the general invisible expenses that go into it, and a percentage perhaps of the amount that's there.

[1:37:04] Trustee Busheikin: There was a suggestion from Director Mobs about a weighted average for the different kind of applications looking at the type of planner time, the, you know, depending on the pay rate of the type of planner who would work on it.

[1:37:19] Trustee Busheikin: um and then the you know debate about just where to set the numbers in terms of what extent

[1:37:26] Trustee Busheikin: we want to you know make it as how close we want to make it to 100 user pay versus

[1:37:34] Trustee Busheikin: you know how subsidized by taxes um and that you know that is the the inevitable question that we

[1:37:41] Trustee Busheikin: are going to have to decide on so that's just my my summary of what i heard that i think may come

[1:37:46] Trustee Busheikin: into play and I'm opening things up and I'm going to start with Vice Chair Fast.

[1:37:51] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you and hello everybody.

[1:37:53] Trustee Fast: I just wanted to mention I've put in the chat

[1:37:56] Trustee Fast: a link to conservation authorities in Ontario. These are the green belts around different cities

[1:38:03] Trustee Fast: including Toronto and Hamilton and Niagara which you may have seen referenced in the

[1:38:09] Trustee Fast: the terms of reference for the Trust Management Governance Review Steering Committee.

[1:38:20] Trustee Fast: Anyway, they include overhead.

[1:38:23] Trustee Fast: If you just search that link for the words overhead, eligible direct.

[1:38:27] Trustee Fast: So this is for all conservation authorities.

[1:38:29] Trustee Fast: These are the fee guidelines.

[1:38:30] Trustee Fast: There's other examples out there, is my point,

[1:38:33] Trustee Fast: that do include overhead for areas with another level of protection,

[1:38:42] Trustee Fast: which conservation authorities have.

[1:38:45] Trustee Fast: In a way, they're in some way similar to the trust.

[1:38:48] Trustee Fast: Thank you.

[1:38:49] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you.

[1:38:50] Trustee Busheikin: Interesting.

[1:38:54] Trustee Busheikin: Vice Chair Patrick.

[1:38:58] Trustee Patrick: Sorry, I'm having tech issues.

[1:39:03] Trustee Patrick: My concern, I think, like everything,

[1:39:07] Trustee Patrick: thing, I think we have different expectations. We heard some of the conversations, are we trying

[1:39:14] Trustee Patrick: to recover 100% of the costs? Or are we just modifying this bylaw? So I think we need to

[1:39:25] Trustee Patrick: make sure we're absolutely clear. Otherwise, this is going to land at Trust Council and there will

[1:39:29] Trustee Patrick: be that debate there. So what were we trying to achieve with this bylaw? And I think that's

[1:39:37] Trustee Patrick: That's probably a worthy conversation to have.

[1:39:42] Trustee Patrick: Peter hasn't sent it out yet, but we both were aware that the TAI was going to put an article out on Salt Spring, and they did today.

[1:39:49] Trustee Patrick: But they focused 100% on the speculation and vacancy taxes being the solution to the problem.

[1:39:56] Trustee Patrick: And even like our development, if we recover 100%, it means that a percentage of people out there are still willing to pay that.

[1:40:09] Trustee Patrick: And that percentage that are willing to pay that are the upper upper crust. So we're, you know, the gentrification issue is only getting accelerated. So that's unintended consequences. So that's why I think it's worthy of having a conversation. What really are we trying to achieve so that we can stand up at Trust Council and say, we have delivered this product that meets this need.

[1:40:32] Trustee Patrick: Otherwise, we're going to be debating, do we do the 100% or not?

[1:40:36] Trustee Patrick: and so thank

[1:40:40] Trustee Busheikin: you for that and um i'm gonna just keep taking comments for now and um but i think

[1:40:48] Trustee Busheikin: that is really um it is what we have to figure it out um and get to some kind of uh shared

[1:40:57] Trustee Busheikin: understanding maybe not a consensus but something we all can work with so trustee longer is go ahead

[1:41:02] Trustee Busheikin: head

[1:41:02] Voice 13: yeah yeah just what in response to the last statement that we're looking at the average cost

[1:41:08] Voice 13: over the trust area that's just that that's our objective or that's what the maximum that we can

[1:41:13] Voice 13: charge and it means that some people's applications will be subsidized and some people will be

[1:41:19] Voice 13: overpaying and we're not going to get to the point of saying you know individually this is what it's

[1:41:27] Voice 13: going to cost you so it's an average and now the question if it's an average across the whole trust

[1:41:33] Voice 13: area yeah the wealthier people are going to have an easier time with it definitely you know they've

[1:41:39] Voice 13: got the monies to do it but how do we can't put in a clause saying well if you know income testing

[1:41:46] Voice 13: people to say well if your income is below such an amount that will reduce the fees and at least

[1:41:53] Voice 13: i'm assuming that's not not the case anyway so that's

[1:41:58] Trustee Busheikin: just uh trustee peterson and then chair

[1:42:04] Trustee Busheikin: locum yeah

[1:42:08] Voice 24: thank you madam chair um in in response to um trustee patrick's uh statement there i i

[1:42:17] Voice 24: for me i i feel like right from the get-go um and through our discussions of this

[1:42:24] Voice 24: that I don't feel like we ever were aiming to have 100% cost recovery.

[1:42:34] Voice 24: I feel like this was started because we recognized

[1:42:39] Voice 24: that there was a large disparity between the cost and what our fees were,

[1:42:45] Voice 24: and we're sort of trying to rationalize getting better recovery

[1:42:51] Voice 24: but not full recovery.

[1:42:52] Voice 24: So that's sort of been my understanding of the whole process from my perspective.

[1:42:59] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, thank you.

[1:43:01] Trustee Luckham: Chair Luckham.

[1:43:04] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much.

[1:43:05] Trustee Luckham: A couple of things have come to mind here, and I agree with Trustee Peterson.

[1:43:10] Trustee Luckham: I don't think we're in as much as we might like to.

[1:43:15] Trustee Luckham: We're not after 100% recovery.

[1:43:16] Trustee Luckham: We're just trying to simply recover a reasonable portion of the expenses incurred on behalf

[1:43:29] Trustee Luckham: of land use development in some way.

[1:43:32] Trustee Luckham: And so I agree with what Trustee Peterson said.

[1:43:36] Trustee Luckham: But my thought here is there's two ends of the spectrum here.

[1:43:41] Trustee Luckham: One is the cost associated with doing development.

[1:43:45] Trustee Luckham: And I think that my emphasis has been is not burdening all the other taxpayers for the cost of that development when they're not necessarily benefiting in any way, although certainly there may be some community benefits but for the most part the development

[1:44:04] Trustee Luckham: are individual benefits and so indeed the fees might go up for those that are doing development

[1:44:10] Trustee Luckham: and certainly it may be that in current history uh it's it's new property owners potentially with

[1:44:19] Trustee Luckham: money that are doing it and so um it's costing them and sure they can afford to pay it so it's

[1:44:24] Trustee Luckham: not that big a deal but i think that the what my reflection is is the total net cost to all

[1:44:31] Trustee Luckham: all taxpayers. And so all of those people that aren't doing any development, and all those people

[1:44:36] Trustee Luckham: that may have difficulty in maintaining their property, you know, me personally here, I'm

[1:44:43] Trustee Luckham: looking at a 30% increase in property value this year, because there's a whole bunch of $600,000

[1:44:48] Trustee Luckham: property selling around me. Well, sure, that's great. I could sell my property for $600,000.

[1:44:53] Trustee Luckham: But I had, I have nowhere to go. And I have no intention of doing that. And that's a

[1:44:56] Trustee Luckham: an effect that's being placed on me. So I want to be able to protect the average taxpayer,

[1:45:04] Trustee Luckham: some of whom can't afford to do development, and may be struggling with the cost of their tax bill.

[1:45:12] Trustee Luckham: And so admittedly, there's some small numbers or big numbers there. But I think that the question

[1:45:18] Trustee Luckham: becomes is, who's paying for the development on the islands? And presently, the average taxpayer,

[1:45:24] Trustee Luckham: payer regardless of their income class is paying a proportion of that based upon their property

[1:45:31] Trustee Luckham: values the interest are unintended consequences and what i bring to note which is really interesting

[1:45:37] Trustee Luckham: that arose yesterday is that in the new icbc rate structure those people that are the worst

[1:45:44] Trustee Luckham: drivers that are paying the most into icbc are actually going to get the bigger checks back

[1:45:51] Trustee Luckham: so the good drivers aren't going to get a check but those that are paying much higher premiums

[1:45:57] Trustee Luckham: will be being refunded more than those of us that are good drivers so we do all the time have to be

[1:46:03] Trustee Luckham: cognizant of the unintended consequences thank

[1:46:08] Trustee Busheikin: you i look forward to my check um uh vice chair

[1:46:14] Trustee Busheikin: rogers uh

[1:46:16] Voice 23: thank you chair shaken i am i i don't wonder whether that are you a pet are you one of

[1:46:21] Voice 23: of those worst drivers.

[1:46:22] Trustee Busheikin: Let's just leave

[1:46:24] Voice 23: that be. So I have a couple of thoughts about all of this.

[1:46:30] Voice 23: First of all, can I suggest to the RPC, and I'm not a member, that I appreciate that this has

[1:46:38] Voice 23: been, first of all, I want to say I appreciate this reporting and this work. I think it's really

[1:46:44] Voice 23: great. It's a long overdue discussion that needs to happen at the trust level. Can I suggest you

[1:46:51] Voice 23: you continue to take whatever time you need before you bring it to trust

[1:46:54] Voice 23: council. And I,

[1:46:55] Voice 23: I say that specifically because March trust council is already

[1:47:00] Voice 23: chock-a-block. And if we put this on the, on the table,

[1:47:04] Voice 23: if you put this on the table for March, I, I, other than an update,

[1:47:09] Voice 23: I think it will be very problematic because it's going to elicit a lot of

[1:47:14] Voice 23: conversation. So here's, here's,

[1:47:19] Voice 23: but here's my view about about this process and why you're doing this um and i agree with trustee

[1:47:26] Voice 23: peterson and uh and chair luck on the boat it and and what trustee morrison said earlier it's about

[1:47:33] Voice 23: getting better and not being perfect and i think it's about moving the moving the needles so that

[1:47:38] Voice 23: we see this i mean the way i look at it is not all but most of these applications for which the fees

[1:47:46] Voice 23: we're we're talking about increasing um substantially in some cases are applications

[1:47:52] Voice 23: which vary from our current vary things from our current land use bylaws and ocps

[1:47:58] Voice 23: um you know not all there are some that are not that way but but they and the ocps are the and

[1:48:05] Voice 23: land use bylaws are the documents and the process where we do community engagement and come to

[1:48:10] Voice 23: theoretically a community collective decision about what the rules should be and these are

[1:48:14] Voice 23: applications to be at variance with those rules. I think that our funds and our property taxes

[1:48:24] Voice 23: should fund completely the land use bylaw OCP review processes when we're looking at the

[1:48:29] Voice 23: community as a large, but if an individual property owner wants to vary from those to

[1:48:34] Voice 23: get something different than what is provided for, you know what, they should bear most of the cost

[1:48:40] Voice 23: of that now having said that I do say most because you know we're going to get some there's going to

[1:48:47] Voice 23: be some pushback and you've also got to think about the political reaction to some of these

[1:48:53] Voice 23: increases because you also I think on a bigger level we need to think about what happens if some

[1:49:01] Voice 23: LTCs don't adopt the model model bylaws because I think that I think this committee needs to

[1:49:08] Voice 23: to think about a recommendation about how we ensure

[1:49:11] Voice 23: that all LTCs adopt this,

[1:49:13] Voice 23: because otherwise you're going to have some areas,

[1:49:16] Voice 23: some local trust areas,

[1:49:17] Voice 23: subsidizing other local trust areas.

[1:49:21] Voice 23: And maybe you've already had that conversation here,

[1:49:25] Voice 23: but if you have LTCs that don't adopt what you propose,

[1:49:31] Voice 23: so it has to be politically acceptable,

[1:49:33] Voice 23: and say, you know what, we're not gonna do that as an LTC,

[1:49:37] Voice 23: see we're going to keep them the way they are you're going to have some areas subsidizing other

[1:49:41] Voice 23: areas in terms of uh the the bigger picture anyway my point is i think there's still some discussion

[1:49:47] Voice 23: about the politics and about some of the details that you laid out chairberg shaken and related to

[1:49:52] Voice 23: some of the language and i would encourage the rp the regional planning committee to

[1:49:58] Voice 23: continue its it's very good discussions about all of those issues and maybe aim at bringing it to

[1:50:04] Voice 23: the the trust council in june other uh when we might have some more with some more space to have

[1:50:12] Voice 23: a really fulsome discussion about what we're trying to achieve so thank you i'm sorry a bit

[1:50:17] Voice 23: long okay

[1:50:24] Trustee Busheikin: uh thank you um for those thoughts i've got myself on the speakers list and then chair

[1:50:31] Trustee Busheikin: luckham and while uh the two of us are speaking i'm going to invite people who if there's people

[1:50:36] Trustee Busheikin: out there who haven't spoken at all or not spoken much you probably have some great thoughts so i

[1:50:43] Trustee Busheikin: see janine dodds so i'll take the two people on the speakers list and actually chair luckham dropped

[1:50:50] Trustee Busheikin: off so i'll just go i'll put myself lower down the list and i will go straight to trustee dodds and

[1:50:56] Trustee Busheikin: if there's anyone else who hasn't spoken much who feels they do have something to add we would love

[1:51:00] Trustee Busheikin: to hear your thoughts. Go ahead Janine. So

[1:51:03] Voice 3: I feel that we're going a bit at some of the cross

[1:51:07] Voice 3: purposes in that I hear overall people a reluctance to increase fees a huge amount

[1:51:15] Voice 3: and yet other voices saying but we have to completely recover our costs and that the

[1:51:21] Voice 3: punishment to the applicants to totally recover our costs are substantial. So in my feeling about

[1:51:28] Voice 3: about how we should be asking for fees in my trust committee

[1:51:32] Voice 3: and each island is different.

[1:51:33] Voice 3: To me, as Dan Rogers said, if you're asking for a change

[1:51:37] Voice 3: from what's currently in the OCP, you want a new zoning,

[1:51:40] Voice 3: you want to be a developer and do something new.

[1:51:43] Voice 3: I can see that fee being substantially more

[1:51:46] Voice 3: but in my experience, both of my applications

[1:51:49] Voice 3: are for variances and those bylaws

[1:51:52] Voice 3: were not specifically created by my community.

[1:51:55] Voice 3: Those are old CRD bylaws, primarily to do with setbacks and actually in 99% of them are approved because they don't impact the environment or the community or have social business.

[1:52:10] Voice 3: And the other one that we get applications for is temporary use permits, which we've tried to sort of soften that by asking if it's a change that's going to benefit the community.

[1:52:22] Voice 3: And so right now we have a daycare center wanting a temporary use permit. Clearly that's a community benefit. So I think we individually as local trust committees to say that we should all adopt the same bylaw and have the same rules, first off, is not tenable to me at all.

[1:52:39] Voice 3: we all operate quite a bit differently i think we need to come to a basic philosophy of in most

[1:52:45] Voice 3: cases we are so far behind in recovery that we're going to have to have a 10 or 20 year program to

[1:52:52] Voice 3: catch up we can't catch up in one year or even in a couple of years we're that far behind then we

[1:52:57] Voice 3: need to look at what is the purpose of catching up on on the money and how much of it is penalizing

[1:53:04] Voice 3: people or how much of it is going to prove a benefit because even going back to rezoning

[1:53:08] Voice 3: applications where somebody wants to do a commercial rezoning the end of the day that

[1:53:13] Voice 3: actually benefits the community because it will provide jobs so there's these philosophical

[1:53:18] Voice 3: differences we have about what is the development what's good development what's bad development

[1:53:23] Voice 3: so i agree with dan that this obviously can't go to trust council yet i think we have a huge

[1:53:28] Voice 3: variety of opinions on just what we should do about the things but also i think it's great

[1:53:33] Voice 3: great. We've got a huge amount of material here to look at. And I think we have made some headway

[1:53:38] Voice 3: in terms of actually discussing it in a fairly large group. But I really worry when everyone

[1:53:44] Voice 3: thinks one size will fit every island, it will not. And I would never support that. Thank you.

[1:53:51] Voice 3: Thank

[1:53:51] Trustee Busheikin: you. So I had myself on the speaker's list. And I do, I agree with all the comments saying

[1:54:00] Trustee Busheikin: this is to me this is not ready to go to trust council and with the march trust council already

[1:54:05] Trustee Busheikin: being full um that makes sense i do think we've come a long way with it and in some ways because

[1:54:11] Trustee Busheikin: we've actually got the model fees by law it gets like it gets real and um that to me we're kind of

[1:54:19] Trustee Busheikin: going back to to uh your core concepts here but but with this actual model fees by law in front

[1:54:27] Trustee Busheikin: of us. How much are we actually talking about charging people and how do we feel about that?

[1:54:32] Trustee Busheikin: I agree that each LTC is different and I think we really need to look at how we can

[1:54:43] Trustee Busheikin: accommodate that. I know there's this idea that there can be a 20% leeway either side for LTCs.

[1:54:50] Trustee Busheikin: um you know is that enough um it is very different when you have developers who want to actually

[1:54:58] Trustee Busheikin: change and vary from the ocp and the lub significantly and um are going to and have a

[1:55:05] Trustee Busheikin: big budget for that and are going to be you know maybe visibly changing the island and changing

[1:55:12] Trustee Busheikin: things um that's very different than a land owner who wants to build a chicken coop and um or

[1:55:19] Trustee Busheikin: or, you know, covered patio for their cafe, things like that.

[1:55:29] Trustee Busheikin: And I think what I've learned is that, yes, we've built some elements into this to try

[1:55:36] Trustee Busheikin: and account for that, the lower TUPs for community benefit that we will define.

[1:55:41] Trustee Busheikin: We have the sponsorship option through EC for nonprofits, but it's limited.

[1:55:47] Trustee Busheikin: we can't actually look at every application and say gosh you know is this really having any

[1:55:55] Trustee Busheikin: negative in like we can't look at everyone um so um you know maybe we need to and i don't think

[1:56:04] Trustee Busheikin: we're going to get today we need to actually figure out maybe a some kind of vision statement

[1:56:09] Trustee Busheikin: for this whole project, some kind of goal statement, I'm hearing a range of how much

[1:56:17] Trustee Busheikin: we want to recover. I'm hearing a sense that we don't want, or we're not aiming for full recovery

[1:56:23] Trustee Busheikin: of all costs, better recovery. I know for me, when we started this, a big part of what motivated me

[1:56:29] Trustee Busheikin: is that fees had not gone up one bit since I'd been a trustee for sure, which at that point was,

[1:56:35] Trustee Busheikin: was, you know, I don't know how, you know, if we count this term, it had been something like seven

[1:56:40] Trustee Busheikin: years of being a trustee. And that was, and I think I've been a lot longer, that is just not

[1:56:45] Trustee Busheikin: good. And it was to, to remedy that. And better recovery is a term I heard someone use. And do

[1:56:53] Trustee Busheikin: we stand behind that? And if so, we can define it is better recovery, more or less what we have

[1:56:58] Trustee Busheikin: before us, which is recovery based on getting back, in general, 100% of the average planner

[1:57:09] Trustee Busheikin: hours spent on applications. That's what we have before us. If we agree that that's better recovery

[1:57:16] Trustee Busheikin: and we're happy with that, we can take that to council. If people think that's not good enough,

[1:57:22] Trustee Busheikin: that we want to include overhead,

[1:57:24] Trustee Busheikin: we want to include travel time,

[1:57:27] Trustee Busheikin: and we want more of a weighted average,

[1:57:30] Trustee Busheikin: we can discuss that and if we agree on it,

[1:57:33] Trustee Busheikin: we can take that to council.

[1:57:34] Trustee Busheikin: But it does seem like we go around in circles

[1:57:36] Trustee Busheikin: until we actually come to some general agreement

[1:57:39] Trustee Busheikin: around what the end game is, what the goal is,

[1:57:43] Trustee Busheikin: and the politics of it as Trustee Rogers said.

[1:57:48] Trustee Busheikin: um and um and there's one more thing i want to put out there there's it really is this is all

[1:57:54] Trustee Busheikin: a very interesting conversation when chair luckham was speaking about thinking about the different

[1:57:59] Trustee Busheikin: burden to taxpayers as a whole and individually and then the taxpayers who are struggling even to

[1:58:05] Trustee Busheikin: to survive and pay their taxes and don't have money to develop versus those who do um and then

[1:58:12] Trustee Busheikin: there's the renters who don't you know they don't pay property tax there's a whole bunch of people

[1:58:17] Trustee Busheikin: whose interests and pocketbooks could be involved but when you think about issues of equity and

[1:58:25] Trustee Busheikin: inclusion in a community which I believe for the vast majority of islanders and trustees are

[1:58:33] Trustee Busheikin: issues of concern because we really want to have healthy communities and we want to have diverse

[1:58:41] Trustee Busheikin: communities everyone needs to be responsible for that and so it because it's in the interest of

[1:58:48] Trustee Busheikin: the whole community to be inclusive and to have a measure of diversity and to have the community

[1:58:55] Trustee Busheikin: good served and sometimes that means that to so so so to some degree when we pay our taxes that

[1:59:05] Trustee Busheikin: is what we're paying for so if some of our taxes are going to ensure that our application fees

[1:59:12] Trustee Busheikin: aren't priced so high that the little guy shall we say can never afford it that is in the common

[1:59:19] Trustee Busheikin: good so for me when i think about the balance between tax funding and applicant funding i you

[1:59:25] Trustee Busheikin: know i see it somewhere in the middle um and that's all my comments sort of a lot of just

[1:59:31] Trustee Busheikin: based on listening to everyone i see that dev morrison is raising her hand um and then trustee

[1:59:38] Trustee Busheikin: longerized so let's uh go to the next speaker that would be you trustee mark all

[1:59:44] Voice 9: right can you hear

[1:59:47] Voice 9: me thank you um

[1:59:51] Voice 8: i'm impressed i've managed to stay connected to the combination the whole time

[1:59:55] Voice 8: um all right so uh let me see if i can

[2:00:00] Voice 8: Organize the thinking. And we're still talking not strictly about the policy, the top end of the policy, but more in the fees bylaw table and that kind of space is my understanding.

[2:00:09] Voice 9: Yeah.

[2:00:11] Voice 8: So a couple things related to that.

[2:00:14] Voice 8: I do think that as for staff advice, we really do need to get a grip on what constitutes community benefit.

[2:00:23] Voice 8: Because I think that's where we're starting to sort of circle around a little bit.

[2:00:27] Voice 8: And one of the things that I heard earlier was the idea of community benefit. And I saw it in the section of the table, this struggle of like listing out in table two section on page 27, like the different kinds of permits and like what the cost is related to that idea of these are community benefits, even if they're in an individual landowner applying for them.

[2:00:53] Voice 8: and so i think we do need to really think about that and it gets back to a comment that trustee

[2:00:59] Voice 8: lukka made about their community benefit for sure because we're protecting and preserving the

[2:01:07] Voice 8: community but we're only protecting and preserving it because somebody's developing it so it's a

[2:01:12] Voice 8: little bit of a conundrum that you put yourself into like if everything in that lens is community

[2:01:19] Voice 8: community benefit, right? And so everything

[2:01:21] Voice 8: in that perspective is community benefit. If we

[2:01:27] Voice 8: think that just because we're putting in, somebody's doing a development permit to protect

[2:01:33] Voice 8: riparian areas, say, and the only reason they're needing to do that development permit is because

[2:01:40] Voice 8: they're developing something, right? And so we do have to really understand that because it's

[2:01:46] Voice 8: it's flipping the coin a little bit and saying that everything has community benefit because

[2:01:50] Voice 8: protecting and preserving the environment you live in a trust area that's a default

[2:01:54] Voice 8: and so the the perspective should be the opposite is if you are developing what aspect of development

[2:02:03] Voice 8: is community benefit broadly speaking not individual but broadly speaking that really

[2:02:10] Voice 8: helped us understand and i think trustee dodds named a number of things that were really specific

[2:02:14] Voice 8: specific, to broader community benefit. And many of you might characterize my stance on this as

[2:02:22] Voice 8: 100% cost recovery. That's not true at all. I'm 100% cost recovery for people who are individual

[2:02:30] Voice 8: benefit to the development, and then really quite the opposite for things that I think

[2:02:36] Voice 8: are community benefit. And so like really a little bit more of a comp, and I have to say that like

[2:02:43] Voice 8: looking through the broader policy pieces, this is a great first step. The biggest question,

[2:02:51] Voice 8: and I would go to what Trustee Rogers said, that I do think it means another couple months of work

[2:02:57] Voice 8: and thinking on it, so not rushing it right this moment, because there's really no reason. There's

[2:03:03] Voice 8: no rationale to put it on the March agenda, because even once we get bylaws, it's going to

[2:03:08] Voice 8: take another six months to get them in. They're not going to impact the next budget cycle until

[2:03:12] Voice 8: till December. So waiting until June, it's not going to be that critical to like wait till June

[2:03:17] Voice 8: for this. And then last thing I think, or last two things. One is I really, really, really would

[2:03:27] Voice 8: like to encourage the, instead of indexing things to CCPI, index it to the actual costs as per the

[2:03:37] Voice 8: the consistent work that is being done by the trust because that's reflective

[2:03:42] Voice 8: and that essentially alleviates the problem of having to redo this every five

[2:03:48] Voice 8: years because you're indexing it to the actual cost effort.

[2:03:52] Voice 8: And it's just once a year, those,

[2:03:54] Voice 8: those reports are done and the index is adjusted based on that. So,

[2:03:58] Voice 8: and I know director Marla probably can get a legal check on that,

[2:04:02] Voice 8: whether that's possible,

[2:04:03] Voice 8: but that will essentially eliminate all my protests related to the budget if it's indexed

[2:04:08] Voice 8: to the actual costs in the budget so and the last one was um ltc's don't not adopting we have

[2:04:18] Voice 8: mechanisms inside the existing policy statement if there are trust areas that and this is a bit

[2:04:25] Voice 8: of a dilemma because local trust areas have some autonomy right and they have some ability to

[2:04:29] Voice 8: adjust these as they come into practice but if a trust area wildly rejects basic principle of like

[2:04:37] Voice 8: recovering developmental costs and the trust council thinks that is the principle we should

[2:04:41] Voice 8: engage we have mechanisms for being able to address that and so we need to consider that

[2:04:48] Voice 8: and that's a trust council decision that we just have to think about all right thank you

[2:04:54] Trustee Busheikin: thank you uh i see uh one more hand up right now trustee longer ice yeah

[2:05:00] Voice 13: yeah i was just going to

[2:05:02] Voice 13: comment on the last topic that trustee morrison just talked about this bylaw is this is a

[2:05:09] Voice 13: recommendation to local trust committees who are independent corporations and have the authority

[2:05:14] Voice 13: to set their fees based on the average cost within their area and the question then becomes if they

[2:05:20] Voice 13: they don't comply what are the options will trust council take a position in some way and act upon

[2:05:26] Voice 13: it through the budgetary process i'm assuming staffing for an area you know if you're not going

[2:05:32] Voice 13: to if you're going to pass your costs on to all of the other island trust areas uh then maybe the

[2:05:40] Voice 13: amount of support you get through planning is adjusted accordingly to to account for that i

[2:05:46] Voice 13: mean but that's that would be a political decision of trust council on that so we're

[2:05:50] Voice 13: we're really talking to ourselves in this as to where do we stand on this whole issue.

[2:05:56] Voice 13: So yeah, that's that was so I agree with what trustee Morrison said.

[2:06:02] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you.

[2:06:04] Trustee Busheikin: Trustee Peterson then chair Lockham.

[2:06:10] Voice 24: Yeah, thank you.

[2:06:11] Voice 24: So I just wanted to chime in on a couple of themes that have been brought up.

[2:06:14] Voice 24: i i do agree that um that it's best that we don't try and rush this to to march council um

[2:06:26] Voice 24: and i think there's a couple things that have been brought up in terms of um taking the work

[2:06:32] Voice 24: that we've been doing and getting buy-in both at trust council level and getting buy-in at

[2:06:40] Voice 24: the local trust committee level i think i mean that's essential to making this

[2:06:44] Voice 24: worthy um so i think coming to and and providing some rationale someone else mentioned vision but

[2:06:54] Voice 24: i prefer rationale in this case yeah um sort of a some kind of statement like what we're trying

[2:07:02] Voice 24: to achieve here so that it's clear to trust council so that it's clear to to local trust

[2:07:08] Voice 24: trust committees. So I'm in support of not rushing at this point and trying to get some

[2:07:17] Voice 24: better information and develop some sort of rationale that we can present when we're presenting

[2:07:22] Voice 24: this. And to that similar point, the discussion about community benefit, I think it'd be useful

[2:07:32] Voice 24: if we sort of refine or expand the list perhaps

[2:07:38] Voice 24: of what we're talking about in terms of the committee.

[2:07:41] Voice 24: But I also think in terms of buy-in from LTCs

[2:07:45] Voice 24: that LTCs are gonna wanna have some flexibility

[2:07:51] Voice 24: for that tailor-made definition

[2:07:53] Voice 24: of what they feel is a benefit to their community.

[2:07:56] Voice 24: So I wouldn't want our list to be exclusive.

[2:08:02] Voice 24: in that sense I think that again to get better buy-in from the LTCs if we if we sort of have

[2:08:09] Voice 24: a list that covers what the committee's considered and and still have some leeway for the LTCs to

[2:08:18] Voice 24: to make that determination in their own community.

[2:08:23] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you and I just will point out that the

[2:08:26] Trustee Busheikin: The only place where there's an attempt to build in lower fees for community benefit

[2:08:37] Trustee Busheikin: are temporary use permits, and those aren't even used on many islands.

[2:08:43] Trustee Busheikin: So it's not, I mean, there's the EC sponsorship, but that's an EC policy.

[2:08:50] Trustee Busheikin: We can look at that and define that further, but in terms of like regular fees for someone

[2:08:56] Trustee Busheikin: one doing a development,

[2:08:58] Trustee Busheikin: if you're not a nonprofit organization,

[2:09:00] Trustee Busheikin: the only it's not that it's not important.

[2:09:03] Trustee Busheikin: And I totally think we do need to define it

[2:09:06] Trustee Busheikin: or give a set of criteria that each LTC can work within

[2:09:10] Trustee Busheikin: and not go beyond.

[2:09:11] Trustee Busheikin: It isn't something that's overarching all the fees

[2:09:15] Trustee Busheikin: it's just temporary use permits.

[2:09:18] Trustee Busheikin: So just wanted to note that and Chair Luckom you are next.

[2:09:26] Trustee Luckham: I maybe suggest be careful about suggesting that temporary use permits aren't used widely.

[2:09:34] Trustee Luckham: I think that many of the islands have used temporary use permits for a variety of things.

[2:09:40] Trustee Luckham: Of course, a temporary use permit does require a willing applicant to come forward prior

[2:09:49] Trustee Luckham: prior to rezoning or whatever, but they are reasonably broadly used and it may be in islands

[2:09:55] Trustee Luckham: where there's not a lot of activity like Thetis, but we do have temporary use permit provisions

[2:10:01] Trustee Luckham: and it certainly has come up in discussion, but applicants have not chosen to go that route.

[2:10:09] Trustee Luckham: So, but anyway, nonetheless, my comments were two things is one, I'm really happy with where

[2:10:16] Trustee Luckham: this conversation is going and i think that indeed it is moving the bar from where we have been to a

[2:10:24] Trustee Luckham: better place and indeed i agree with um trustee dodge this is going to take some time to resolve

[2:10:32] Trustee Luckham: i um i do like the notion as trustee morrison has said to tying it to the from actual costs

[2:10:39] Trustee Luckham: of what the islanders trust uh cost to operate because i think that's different from the ccp

[2:10:45] Trustee Luckham: numbers. And I don't know why there'd be any legality around that. It would just be

[2:10:51] Trustee Luckham: a financial metric that would enable us to provide a regular increase that would reflect

[2:10:58] Trustee Luckham: operational costs. And so I'd be really happy to have that information. I do agree. And it's

[2:11:04] Trustee Luckham: completely self-serving. I'll admit that. Council's agenda is very full. And this two or

[2:11:10] Trustee Luckham: a three-hour conversation like what we're having here already is something that would be a serious

[2:11:16] Trustee Luckham: thing. So taking our time, very worthwhile. The only last comment is because I find it just a

[2:11:23] Trustee Luckham: little uncomfortable that we might be considering, and I'm maybe adding into the conversation rather

[2:11:30] Trustee Luckham: than maybe what was intended, but punitive measures against LTCs that don't follow the

[2:11:37] Trustee Luckham: the guidelines makes me a little uncomfortable. But I'll just say many of you, I actually had

[2:11:45] Trustee Luckham: conversations with many of you over the Christmas break. I had a bit of a personal family thing

[2:11:50] Trustee Luckham: happen that got me off of actually completing those conversations with everybody. But one of

[2:11:56] Trustee Luckham: the real strong messages I got is we need more resources for projects. And really, for me,

[2:12:02] Trustee Luckham: this is a holistic approach, is how can we offset our costs that we're spending on applications

[2:12:10] Trustee Luckham: versus the monies and resources available to us for resources to do projects. And so whatever

[2:12:17] Trustee Luckham: little bit we can save in our outgoing costs associated with applications is money that we

[2:12:23] Trustee Luckham: can turn towards projects. So if there's LTCs, and I think that if there's LTCs that

[2:12:28] Trustee Luckham: keeping their fees down low is important for their community and that's a legitimate point of view

[2:12:34] Trustee Luckham: then I also would hope that that would reflect on the demands of projects that they might want to

[2:12:40] Trustee Luckham: consider asking support from their staff or from trust counsel because it is a hand-in-hand

[2:12:49] Trustee Luckham: relationship and so I'd rather have that careful considerations about the broad decisions that

[2:12:55] Trustee Luckham: that we're making associated with fees and projects

[2:12:57] Trustee Luckham: and those things, rather than it being punitive.

[2:13:00] Trustee Luckham: And maybe that wasn't intended,

[2:13:01] Trustee Luckham: but it could be interpreted that way.

[2:13:07] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, thank you.

[2:13:11] Trustee Busheikin: There, oh, I see no more hands.

[2:13:12] Trustee Busheikin: I see Sue Ellen's hand up, go ahead.

[2:13:15] Trustee Fast: Thank you.

[2:13:16] Trustee Fast: I just, in case it's helpful,

[2:13:19] Trustee Fast: Niagara Conservation Authority has on their fee schedule,

[2:13:23] Trustee Fast: they have some definitions like what is major,

[2:13:27] Trustee Fast: what is complex what are modifications extensions those kinds of things so i just put that in the

[2:13:33] Trustee Fast: chat with a link to that fee schedule it might be helpful to just for some perspective or some

[2:13:39] Trustee Fast: maybe some useful definitions there thank

[2:13:45] Trustee Busheikin: you um so not seeing any more hands up um i'm gonna just

[2:13:52] Trustee Busheikin: take this moment to reflect we've been talking about this for um over two hours and it's been a

[2:13:56] Trustee Busheikin: great discussion i'm very glad we did this and that we invited tpc members here um i don't know

[2:14:03] Trustee Busheikin: where chair grove went and i hope i'm he might have had some technical problems which is too bad

[2:14:08] Trustee Busheikin: but um i think it's it's a taste of what would happen if we went right now to council this is

[2:14:14] Trustee Busheikin: my take on it and it shows that there's things to be worked out um the big question is uh for me as

[2:14:21] Trustee Busheikin: as chairs, it's still got a big agenda. We've had a huge conversation. We still have two more items

[2:14:29] Trustee Busheikin: that are part of this 5.1. We've got the DAI and the policy. And we want, we do want to keep moving.

[2:14:41] Trustee Busheikin: So I'm going to try and sum up what I, what I, you know, listening as chair, see as a possible

[2:14:47] Trustee Busheikin: next step for this. And let's see where that gets us because we should take a lunch break soon.

[2:14:53] Trustee Busheikin: What I'm hearing, I've not heard anyone say, hey, yeah, no, let's get this to council for March. So

[2:14:58] Trustee Busheikin: I'm going to put that idea aside. I think I'm going to assume that there's general consent,

[2:15:02] Trustee Busheikin: that we don't want to do that. We don't feel ready. I've heard earlier in the discussion,

[2:15:08] Trustee Busheikin: some interest in looking at what the costs would be

[2:15:14] Trustee Busheikin: if we included some calculation for overhead

[2:15:18] Trustee Busheikin: and or a weighted average.

[2:15:20] Trustee Busheikin: I don't know after all the discussion

[2:15:22] Trustee Busheikin: how much interest there is in that,

[2:15:24] Trustee Busheikin: but if RPC wanted to ask staff to come back

[2:15:28] Trustee Busheikin: with alternate numbers for averages

[2:15:30] Trustee Busheikin: that include some overhead, just for comparison sake,

[2:15:34] Trustee Busheikin: we would ask them to do that.

[2:15:35] Trustee Busheikin: I also have heard a real desire to define community benefit, and I think that we could ask staff to come back with some ideas.

[2:15:46] Trustee Busheikin: They might invite input even through a little mini survey.

[2:15:52] Trustee Busheikin: I don't know how much work that is from trustees.

[2:15:57] Trustee Busheikin: What is community benefit?

[2:15:59] Trustee Busheikin: I'm kind of picturing community benefit would list six to eight things or some concepts, but then within that it would be up to each LTC to choose.

[2:16:10] Trustee Busheikin: That's just my idea. So that's another thing I'm hearing.

[2:16:14] Trustee Busheikin: I'm hearing some interest, at least a couple of people, in changing the mechanism for the annual automatic increase.

[2:16:23] Trustee Busheikin: increase. You know, I have no way of knowing if that's broadly shared by the group, but it's just

[2:16:30] Trustee Busheikin: something I heard. And the other thing I'm hearing a lot is that we need to agree, or it would be

[2:16:38] Trustee Busheikin: beneficial for us to agree on some kind of, I will call it a rationale for this project or an overall

[2:16:47] Trustee Busheikin: objective and rationale. And I think that is something that probably we would need to plan

[2:16:52] Trustee Busheikin: plan for and discuss at our next meeting. I don't see us putting it together right now.

[2:16:57] Trustee Busheikin: And then another question has to do with, do we want to look at mechanisms for pressuring LTCs

[2:17:05] Trustee Busheikin: to adopt this or not? Is that something RPC should do? Should EC do it? Do we even want

[2:17:11] Trustee Busheikin: to do it right now? I'm not, I have no clarity on that myself. So that's my summary of, I think,

[2:17:19] Trustee Busheikin: what what could be done at this meeting or what directions to go in um so we have a just about

[2:17:27] Trustee Busheikin: 20 past 12 i want to take a lunch break at 12 30 so uh you know maybe there's some things i missed

[2:17:33] Trustee Busheikin: in my summary or things people want to pick up on so i'm gonna open the floor again everyone's just

[2:17:40] Trustee Busheikin: like whoa it's been a big discussion go ahead case oh

[2:17:47] Voice 13: just one comment uh trustee morrison

[2:17:49] Voice 13: mentioned about the budget look rather than looking at overhead looking at the

[2:17:53] Voice 13: budget right okay changes in budget that would be something to consider as well

[2:17:58] Voice 13: okay so

[2:18:08] Trustee Fast: go ahead um case did you mean when she referred to the actual costs to

[2:18:16] Voice 13: the increase the annual increases looking at looking at to the budget

[2:18:20] Voice 13: changes rather than using the CPI okay

[2:18:25] Trustee Busheikin: so I thought she referred to him I guess

[2:18:27] Trustee Busheikin: we can ask her not the budget per se but the actual cost so that we would keep tracking we

[2:18:33] Trustee Busheikin: will keep the tracking going yeah and i see her nodding

[2:18:36] Voice 13: the planning costs yeah yeah in the budget

[2:18:39] Voice 13: that's what i'm sorry the planning costs within the budget oh

[2:18:43] Trustee Busheikin: well i don't think it was it within

[2:18:44] Trustee Busheikin: budget or was it to keep the tracking going that's going on go ahead chairman of trustee morrison

[2:18:50] Trustee Busheikin: oh we can't hear you you'll have to unmute i

[2:19:00] Voice 9: got two mute going on here to my

[2:19:03] Trustee Busheikin: Are you muted again, though? It's a third mute.

[2:19:11] Trustee Fast: There you go.

[2:19:17] Voice 8: So that it would be indexed to the actual cost as determined from the ongoing tracking method,

[2:19:24] Voice 8: and those would be actual average costs. And it's still unclear, I think, as a group of whether

[2:19:31] Voice 8: you'd want to include overhead or not. I'm for including overhead to some degree in those average

[2:19:37] Voice 8: cost. But anyway, that's what I was meaning.

[2:19:40] Trustee Busheikin: Okay. Thank you. And I have got Trustee

[2:19:43] Trustee Busheikin: Wolverton and then Vice Chair Rogers. I would actually

[2:19:48] Voice 6: prefer to continue with the or to use

[2:19:54] Voice 6: the price index because it's something that is compiled annually by other than like it's not

[2:20:04] Voice 6: not the trust having to do this every year.

[2:20:06] Voice 6: And it's something that is an accepted measure

[2:20:10] Voice 6: of the cost of living.

[2:20:13] Voice 6: So I would just say I would prefer us to stick with that.

[2:20:21] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you, Dan Rogers.

[2:20:25] Voice 23: I just want to encourage the committee

[2:20:27] Voice 23: to give some thought to how you're going to define

[2:20:31] Voice 23: community benefit and particularly in the context

[2:20:34] Voice 23: context of the sponsored fees. There's a policy for it related to it, but it's pretty undefined

[2:20:46] Voice 23: as well. But I could see that as one of the rationales is that we would use some of the

[2:20:51] Voice 23: money that came from the development to fund the sponsorship if we could broaden what looks like

[2:20:58] Voice 23: like a, a community benefit. I was interested to hear Trustee Dodds talk about what she might

[2:21:04] Voice 23: view as a community benefit. And we have, we have a very small piece of our budget for this.

[2:21:11] Voice 23: And it's like $5,000. But I could see that becoming a, you know, where we take some of

[2:21:19] Voice 23: this money and move it into a larger budget, maybe a different way of administering it,

[2:21:25] Voice 23: uh the different decision making process but what we could we could actually provide some of the

[2:21:31] Voice 23: money for it to that so i i but i think that starts with trying to define what we mean by

[2:21:37] Voice 23: community benefit so thank

[2:21:40] Trustee Busheikin: you um trustee wolverton your hands up no okay uh okay i'm not

[2:21:51] Trustee Busheikin: not seeing any hands. I feel like everything's just sort of hanging. Where are we going now?

[2:21:59] Trustee Busheikin: And that's okay. But what I'm thinking about doing is giving us a half hour for lunch. And

[2:22:06] Trustee Busheikin: I'm wondering if there's anyone or maybe a couple people or someone who wants to

[2:22:10] Trustee Busheikin: talk to staff over lunch to come up with maybe a resolution so that we'll say what's going to

[2:22:19] Trustee Busheikin: to happen next um as i said there's there's themes we're hearing it's uh let's figure out

[2:22:28] Trustee Busheikin: how we're gonna how the annual increases are gonna look let's figure out our rationale let's define

[2:22:34] Trustee Busheikin: community benefit um let's work towards deciding if we want to include overhead or not so um

[2:22:42] Trustee Busheikin: but somehow we need to have some action on the table to i believe to go forward or let me just

[2:22:49] Trustee Busheikin: maybe turn it over to staff because i see two staff members have appeared on my screen

[2:22:53] Trustee Busheikin: um do you need resolutions can you take this whole big tangled discussion and and come back at our

[2:23:00] Trustee Busheikin: next meeting with something that'll take us forward

[2:23:02] Voice 18: absolutely not not without a resolution

[2:23:06] Voice 18: i was going to suggest is you laid out several items here so the first one is not going to match

[2:23:12] Voice 18: council going to june council so that's kind of okay um so you said cost include calculation for

[2:23:18] Voice 18: overhead and weighted average uh defining community benefit changing the annual increase

[2:23:24] Voice 18: to the actual average cost um not using the ccpi um and you talked about agreeing on a rationale

[2:23:33] Voice 18: for the project and overall objective and looking at mechanisms for pressuring ltcs to adopt new

[2:23:39] Voice 18: new fee bylaws so maybe what you could do for all of those maybe take them one at a time and if

[2:23:45] Voice 18: there's a resolution I would just simply say ask staff to report back on and then what it is you

[2:23:51] Voice 18: would like us to report back on because now we've got some time before June we can come back with

[2:23:56] Voice 18: some options and recommendations around these and if we do need to talk to legal counsel in any of

[2:24:02] Voice 18: these we got that opportunity to do that and we'll build that into our advice to you okay

[2:24:07] Trustee Busheikin: um

[2:24:11] Voice 22: thanks anurisa well i'm just wondering if if there would be value in um in just having a

[2:24:18] Voice 22: separate meeting um with a small group that's interested in in in um just digging in a little

[2:24:25] Voice 22: deeper um i'm just sort of putting that out there potentially as an idea um so that we can really

[2:24:32] Voice 22: have some focused time on this and get through these questions, you know, together with two or

[2:24:38] Voice 22: three of the RPC members?

[2:24:45] Trustee Busheikin: Yeah, that's an interesting point. I think that quite a lot of

[2:24:52] Trustee Busheikin: us would actually want to be part of it. I think everyone feels engaged. I'm saying everyone just

[2:24:56] Trustee Busheikin: nod. And if you think, oh, yeah, I want to be part of that group. I'm seeing some nods. I'm not

[2:25:01] Trustee Busheikin: seeing absolutely everyone nodding um i think a dedicated meeting is maybe the way to go you know

[2:25:08] Trustee Busheikin: maybe with a little bit of a staff report to kind of or something to guide us because i i counted

[2:25:15] Trustee Busheikin: five uh what how do what are those average costs are they what we have will they have

[2:25:22] Trustee Busheikin: change and include overhead weighted averages that's one two is rationale three is the mechanism

[2:25:29] Trustee Busheikin: for annual increases four is how to define community benefit and five is consequences

[2:25:34] Trustee Busheikin: for local trust communities who don't adopt so five issues so just maybe a little covering report

[2:25:39] Trustee Busheikin: to to provide a bit of background on that and maybe a bit of information um as that would help

[2:25:47] Trustee Busheikin: us um and we could hold a special meeting just for that and see who shows up or we could appoint

[2:25:53] Trustee Busheikin: point people to them i mean i'm not really sure how it works yeah

[2:25:57] Voice 22: i don't know um david what are

[2:25:59] Voice 22: your thoughts well

[2:26:02] Voice 18: i don't know if a small group would work because these are these are bigger

[2:26:07] Voice 18: questions that you know i think almost all of council needs to somehow get involved in and i

[2:26:13] Voice 18: think this group is um doing a really good job so far of trying to come up with these um i think

[2:26:21] Voice 18: think just more time at this committee whether it's you know it's a special meeting with the

[2:26:26] Voice 18: fpc and the rpc together or just your rpc whoever um i think we could work through it but i'm not

[2:26:34] Voice 18: sure if just one or two trustees i mean probably get some advice but it's not going to be

[2:26:40] Voice 18: representative and then it's going to have to come back to this table anyway and then we might find

[2:26:45] Voice 18: that that wasn't what everybody else agreed to so we're back where we started that's my thinking i

[2:26:50] Voice 18: prefer we keep it at the Regional Planning Committee table.

[2:26:54] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you and I see our next

[2:26:56] Trustee Busheikin: meeting is is only five weeks from now so I think that yeah I think and I think the diversity is

[2:27:04] Trustee Busheikin: important because we're going to get that diversity at Council so I think we do need a you know a

[2:27:10] Trustee Busheikin: resolution I think to just come back with I think some kind of brief like a staff briefing to get us

[2:27:17] Trustee Busheikin: ready to have those conversations at our next meeting and I will offer as chair to do a little

[2:27:26] Trustee Busheikin: background work on community benefits so what I'm just let me know if you don't want me to do this

[2:27:32] Trustee Busheikin: but I would offer to receive emails from everyone in this committee and and all invited guests

[2:27:40] Trustee Busheikin: about what you think like how you would like to define community benefit you know even just

[2:27:46] Trustee Busheikin: examples. What is community benefit? Both for the TUP option and to flesh out the sponsorship

[2:27:53] Trustee Busheikin: policy, the EC sponsorship policy. I will just collate those. I'll make a chart so that they're

[2:28:01] Trustee Busheikin: in topics and show which ones showed up multiple times and give that to staff that they can then

[2:28:08] Trustee Busheikin: do what they want with it and bring it back to the group. Does that sound good? And I will send

[2:28:13] Trustee Busheikin: an email to remind everyone um okay so we need someone to make some and i see chair luckham your

[2:28:23] Trustee Busheikin: hand is up um i'm sure maybe it's been up for ages but we also we're going to need to some

[2:28:29] Trustee Busheikin: resolutions either before lunch or after lunch so chair luckham yeah

[2:28:34] Trustee Luckham: my hand is looking a little

[2:28:36] Trustee Luckham: withered there but um as a non-voting as a non-voting member and i i don't make resolutions

[2:28:43] Trustee Luckham: just because I think that's also part of the ex officio limitations I would encourage somebody to

[2:28:51] Trustee Luckham: come advance a motion here in order to be sure that you get the materials you need for your next

[2:28:57] Trustee Luckham: meeting so that indeed we can bring this fully vetted to council in June because that will be

[2:29:03] Trustee Luckham: a good time to do that and that's how it works is that we have to advance the conversation here from

[2:29:11] Trustee Luckham: some mere discussion which as meaningful as it is it doesn't amount to anything if we don't turn it

[2:29:17] Trustee Luckham: into motion so I would encourage that and I gotta say I am inclined to want to encourage that

[2:29:24] Trustee Luckham: conversation to continue in the full group of this committee because you know there's some

[2:29:30] Trustee Luckham: notion out there about self-selected committees and that they may only of course that would never

[2:29:38] Trustee Luckham: happened but one might consider that it might not be as objective or broad as it would be with the

[2:29:45] Trustee Luckham: full diversity of the body and so then you end up having to rehash it through anyway and so

[2:29:50] Trustee Luckham: you're just actually spending more time and everybody's time is pretty

[2:29:54] Trustee Luckham: valuable and um i want to respect that so let's have some lunch and come back

[2:30:00] Trustee Busheikin: have some lunch and just so that like we don't have six people going off and oh sorry someone

[2:30:04] Trustee Busheikin: else was talking or cat's meowing um uh just so that not like people aren't at cross purposes

[2:30:11] Trustee Busheikin: could i have a volunteer to craft um uh the um resolution or resolutions that we want to make

[2:30:19] Trustee Busheikin: and maybe they can work with a staff person um who would like to do that come on you can get help

[2:30:30] Trustee Busheikin: from staff i mean i can do it but it generally isn't a practice for the chair to be working

[2:30:36] Trustee Busheikin: thank you trustee stamford i know it will impact on your lunch pleasure but i trust you to do that

[2:30:43] Trustee Busheikin: um and um you could be in touch with david or narissa um and then let's come back i'm going

[2:30:50] Trustee Busheikin: to give us a full half hour because i think we need that and so let's come back at five past one

[2:30:57] Voice 18: And just to reassure Trustee Stamford, feel free to email me suggestions on your resolution

[2:31:04] Voice 18: and I'll have a look and send some edits back to you if I think we need them. Okay?

[2:31:09] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you. And I see in the chat it's snowing many places. It's snowing up on Denman,

[2:31:13] Trustee Busheikin: but it's not staying on the ground. If we were all in Ladysmith, we'd all be like,

[2:31:17] Trustee Busheikin: oh my God, should we end the meeting? Do we have to go home? It's going to be snowy, but here we

[2:31:20] Trustee Busheikin: We are snug and even frozen sometimes.

[2:31:23] Trustee Busheikin: Go ahead.

[2:31:25] Trustee Busheikin: Yes, Dan.

[2:31:26] Voice 23: I'm just going to say thanks for the invite from FPC.

[2:31:29] Voice 23: I think you've got your motions to do now.

[2:31:32] Voice 23: And so you've got your business.

[2:31:34] Voice 23: So thank you very much.

[2:31:35] Voice 23: It's been a very, thank you for the invite and including us.

[2:31:38] Voice 23: Yeah.

[2:31:38] Trustee Busheikin: And if you want to come back, you can,

[2:31:40] Trustee Busheikin: because there's still the DAI and the policy, but you don't have to.

[2:31:45] Trustee Busheikin: And thanks for coming.

[2:31:46] Trustee Busheikin: It's been, it's pushed us really to deepen our thinking

[2:31:50] Trustee Busheikin: and I think we'll be way more ready for council when we get there.

[2:31:56] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, I'll see you in half an hour.

[2:31:59] Voice 12: Okay, thank you.

[3:01:06] Voice 14: Laura, can

[3:01:13] Voice 21: you hear me? I can't hear you for some reason. There's no sound.

[3:01:22] Trustee Luckham: I can't hear you, Robert.

[3:01:27] Voice 21: Right, but Chair Beshakian, I cannot hear.

[3:01:30] Trustee Luckham: Can you hear me now?

[3:01:31] Voice 21: Yes, I can hear you now. I just wanted to point out you may wish to ask

[3:01:36] Voice 21: the committee members to show themselves by video to ensure that we have a quorum before you

[3:01:42] Voice 21: reconvene well

[3:01:45] Trustee Busheikin: there's

[3:01:50] Voice 21: several people who have not left the zoom meeting but

[3:01:57] Voice 21: they may not actually be present six

[3:02:01] Trustee Busheikin: six

[3:02:05] Voice 21: committee members and

[3:02:07] Trustee Fast: I'm some of us are

[3:02:08] Trustee Fast: here but not committee members okay

[3:02:10] Trustee Busheikin: right right um uh well let's just see who okay uh let's see

[3:02:16] Trustee Busheikin: we've got me uh trustee wolverton uh tim uh kate louise is here as a committee member um

[3:02:23] Voice 21: well yes

[3:02:25] Voice 21: kate louise is um but what i'm saying is that uh i don't see them so i don't know if they're

[3:02:31] Voice 21: actually present oh

[3:02:32] Trustee Busheikin: okay so i see but is vice chair patrick here as a committee member or yes

[3:02:37] Trustee Busheikin: yes so there's vice chair did i see vice chair patrick myself tim peterson trustee stamford

[3:02:44] Trustee Busheikin: case longer ice and trustee wolverton so i see all those so that's six of them that's good

[3:02:53] Voice 14: yep

[3:02:54] Trustee Busheikin: and maybe i could just ask briefly for people who are here but are not visible can you all

[3:02:59] Trustee Busheikin: if you can make yourself visible or put your hand up i'm not seeing other committee members

[3:03:09] Trustee Busheikin: i'm seeing some staff members that is enough for us to continue and i did not mention this

[3:03:15] Trustee Busheikin: at the beginning and i i was just like well first let me call the meeting back to order welcome

[3:03:20] Trustee Busheikin: um and i did uh neglect the beginning of the meeting to mention that trustee maude had

[3:03:24] Trustee Busheikin: contacted me to get his regrets so usually that is um put in the minutes so that um it's clear

[3:03:32] Trustee Busheikin: that he he did that he's got a family issue to deal with um so um here we are and um

[3:03:45] Trustee Busheikin: i think we're gonna have some motions come up

[3:03:50] Trustee Stamford: so um i didn't give david much to work with

[3:03:54] Trustee Stamford: um so he very kindly just sent it to me and i'm reading it for the first time um is there

[3:04:01] Trustee Stamford: an opportunity to put it up on the screen um director marlin yeah

[3:04:06] Voice 18: i followed it to robert

[3:04:08] Voice 18: ballo so robert uh do you have your email there

[3:04:11] Trustee Stamford: yes i do i'm looking at it right now do you want

[3:04:13] Trustee Stamford: me to read it out or wait till it comes up on the screen i

[3:04:16] Voice 18: i can share it from my screen so let me

[3:04:18] Voice 18: just find it and i'll share it give me a second i do

[3:04:21] Voice 21: have a dave no copy okay

[3:04:24] Voice 18: thank you

[3:04:28] Voice 15: okay

[3:04:29] Voice 18: so

[3:04:33] Voice 18: So Robert will bring that up shortly.

[3:04:38] Trustee Stamford: Yes, I hadn't written it down.

[3:04:40] Trustee Stamford: So David had to put it all together

[3:04:43] Trustee Stamford: and then I just put the front part on.

[3:05:07] Voice 12: Great, thank you, Robert.

[3:05:14] Voice 18: So maybe if it's okay through the chair,

[3:05:17] Voice 18: I'll just comment unless Trustee Stamford

[3:05:20] Voice 18: would prefer to take the lead.

[3:05:22] Trustee Busheikin: No, that's fine.

[3:05:24] Trustee Stamford: I want a

[3:05:24] Trustee Busheikin: chance to read it.

[3:05:26] Trustee Busheikin: Yeah.

[3:05:26] Trustee Stamford: Yeah just covering what I heard.

[3:05:48] Trustee Busheikin: Okay has everyone had a chance to read it? Okay so any staff

[3:05:56] Trustee Busheikin: comments or well Trustee Stamford you are the mover of the motion so would you like to lead

[3:06:01] Trustee Busheikin: off with any comments?

[3:06:02] Trustee Stamford: This is roughly what I heard the committee talk about as priorities

[3:06:10] Trustee Stamford: and I just wanted to put on the overall objective I think is we need to lead off with that

[3:06:17] Trustee Stamford: because that seems to be where we keep getting bogged down so that's why I put it number one

[3:06:23] Voice 18: so maybe uh if you don't mind just through the chair yeah um yeah I just put all these in here

[3:06:29] Voice 18: you may want to separate them into individual resolutions and debate them that way or you can

[3:06:35] Voice 18: keep it as a single resolution and I numbered them to help with the debate so it's up to you

[3:06:39] Voice 18: how you proceed with that

[3:06:40] Trustee Busheikin: okay um well let's see how it works keeping them all in one motion

[3:06:47] Trustee Busheikin: and the motion has been moved does anyone uh second the motion go ahead that is uh trustee

[3:06:55] Trustee Busheikin: longer i seconded it so we have the motion on the table and i'm going to open up a speaker's

[3:07:01] Trustee Busheikin: list so please use your um digital hand trustee wolverton go ahead yeah

[3:07:11] Voice 6: i would like to add

[3:07:12] Voice 6: because we're talking about policy now i'd like to add in to uh a number five i guess

[3:07:20] Voice 6: that 1.3.1 of the processing service policy include reference to First Nations that

[3:07:33] Voice 6: in the comprehensive staff assessment include site visit where required review of the RAD data

[3:07:41] Voice 6: and other I'll just I'll put that in there for now okay

[3:07:52] Trustee Busheikin: I wouldn't just to help me understand

[3:07:55] Trustee Busheikin: that can you tell me what page of the page 21

[3:08:01] Voice 6: okay um which is the uh the policy okay

[3:08:09] Trustee Busheikin: Okay. Okay, since we are dealing with a policy, I guess that's fits in.

[3:08:22] Voice 21: Chair Pacheco, can I ask? Yep. Trustee Woolverton to repeat that I had a little technical problem

[3:08:27] Voice 21: and I lost where I was.

[3:08:30] Voice 6: Okay, so this is an addition to one point 3.1 on page 21 of our

[3:08:37] Voice 6: package and that would include that it reads now staff a comprehensive staff assessment including

[3:08:45] Voice 6: site visit where required and i would also add in there including review of rad data so

[3:08:54] Voice 21: i'm sorry

[3:08:55] Voice 21: i'm not clear your amendment is include rad data that's

[3:09:00] Voice 6: correct a review of rad data and

[3:09:05] Trustee Busheikin: can rad be

[3:09:06] Trustee Busheikin: spelled out please?

[3:09:09] Voice 21: I don't know the acronym.

[3:09:11] Trustee Busheikin: Yeah me neither. Is it uh it's the archaeology branch?

[3:09:19] Voice 6: Yeah um I just hear it referred to as RAD um.

[3:09:26] Voice 18: It's remote access to archaeological data.

[3:09:29] Voice 15: Yeah okay.

[3:09:40] Voice 18: And and that's fine that's that would work for us. Okay

[3:09:44] Voice 6: um so that's that goes into

[3:09:50] Voice 6: to 1.3.1 uh

[3:09:57] Trustee Busheikin: okay i mean i had some other comments and questions on that policy but they actually can

[3:10:00] Trustee Busheikin: wait till the next meeting when it comes back to us um can

[3:10:05] Trustee Stamford: we just put excuse me can we just put

[3:10:07] Trustee Stamford: 1.3.1 in parentheses so that we're clear on what we're looking at thank you yes

[3:10:21] Trustee Busheikin: so that adds a

[3:10:23] Trustee Busheikin: review um and it probably should be uh to be really clear because we're dealing with different

[3:10:32] Trustee Busheikin: documents adds a review of all that to the application it's very long the application

[3:10:45] Trustee Busheikin: processing services comma cost recovery agreements and extraordinary processing services policy

[3:11:03] Voice 18: policy could i just ask as a point of order

[3:11:05] Voice 15: so

[3:11:06] Voice 18: is this an amendment to the motion the motion

[3:11:11] Voice 18: already has that at the beginning yeah so

[3:11:14] Voice 18: all we need to do okay

[3:11:15] Voice 3: sorry yeah so it just

[3:11:18] Voice 18: needs to say

[3:11:18] Voice 18: adds um adds to policy 1.3.1 and then in quotes cost uh whatever that is remote access review of

[3:11:33] Voice 18: remote access to archaeological data okay

[3:11:36] Trustee Busheikin: thank you david thank you for um making that work yeah

[3:11:40] Voice 18: i

[3:11:41] Trustee Busheikin: was just concerned yeah that it was like there's different documents different yeah yeah okay so

[3:11:47] Trustee Busheikin: So that is, let's just give Robert a chance to get that written, and that is an amendment

[3:11:59] Trustee Busheikin: to the motion, and I'm cautioned against using friendly, so this idea of the friendly

[3:12:07] Trustee Busheikin: amendment, and I have come to understand we do abuse that a bit, so let's not do that

[3:12:12] Trustee Busheikin: and make this as an amendment.

[3:12:14] Trustee Busheikin: Moved by Trustee Wolverton, seconded by anyone?

[3:12:19] Trustee Busheikin: Yep, go ahead.

[3:12:20] Trustee Busheikin: Trustee Stamford

[3:12:21] Trustee Busheikin: has seconded it. Any discussion on the amendment? Okay, I'm going to call the

[3:12:31] Trustee Busheikin: question. So this is on the amendment to add the piece about the archaeological data.

[3:12:37] Trustee Busheikin: Can we use online voting? We all put up our hands. So all in favor?

[3:12:46] Trustee Busheikin: Okay and the dog. I'm in favor.

[3:12:50] Trustee Busheikin: Okay good thank you that's Janine. So that is six in favor and

[3:12:56] Trustee Busheikin: put your hands down and then anyone a seven in favor um no six in favor sorry six in favor anyone

[3:13:03] Trustee Busheikin: opposed uh Chair Luckham and Lisa Wilcox I see your hands up as opposed but I'm going to ignore

[3:13:11] Trustee Busheikin: nor that. No one is opposed motion carries. It's just funny being online sometimes. Motion carries.

[3:13:20] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, so we've got that we have the amendment. I would also like to propose an amendment. And I

[3:13:28] Trustee Busheikin: also Oh, wait, you know what, there's a there's actually a speaker's list. So I'm going to go

[3:13:32] Trustee Busheikin: through the speaker list and then put myself on it. So we got chair Luckham. Let's actually,

[3:13:37] Trustee Busheikin: if we could i would like to hear from lisa wilcox as someone who's new to this discussion and has

[3:13:42] Trustee Busheikin: valued advice for us so um go ahead um uh lisa and then i'll get to everyone else

[3:13:55] Voice 11: um yeah i see that you've added this really quite specific aspect to this of this you know

[3:14:04] Voice 11: reviewing the remote access to archaeological data um although that is what we do as part of

[3:14:11] Voice 11: a process um an applicant could come back and say oh i already have that information or i mean

[3:14:19] Voice 11: you've created a very specific thing that can come from very like another ministry or or even

[3:14:27] Voice 11: past information that the applicant receives say from their realtor so um i i find it slightly

[3:14:37] Voice 11: problematic in that it doesn't actually get to what we're actually doing and what the role of

[3:14:45] Voice 11: the trust is in regards to why we would be providing archaeological information to a

[3:14:52] Voice 11: property owner or why we would be, say, requesting or expressing concerns about things that they

[3:15:01] Voice 11: be doing on their properties so we we do have like a process of due diligence and which includes that

[3:15:09] Voice 11: review of the rad data but also is looking at things um that you know have to do with

[3:15:18] Voice 11: reconciliation and are contained within UNDRIP and then also fall under DRIPA and also fall under

[3:15:26] Voice 11: um our duty of care in regards to rights and title so um yeah so i'm just not i'm a little

[3:15:35] Voice 11: bit concerned about how you've worded that to be so specific um but it might be something i need

[3:15:44] Voice 11: to talk to david about and then he would be able to provide you back more guidance about our actual

[3:15:51] Voice 11: processes of what we're doing okay and

[3:15:55] Trustee Busheikin: i say i'll let david speak in a moment and i just want to

[3:15:57] to

[3:15:57] Trustee Busheikin: start um before I just want to um really apologize that I um you uh uh Lisa you may

[3:16:05] Trustee Busheikin: have had your hand up before we even voted on the motion and I didn't see it and um

[3:16:10] Trustee Busheikin: yeah and I I

[3:16:12] Trustee Busheikin: apologize for that it's um it's yeah uh the sharing the uh electronic meetings is clearly still a

[3:16:21] Trustee Busheikin: learning process for me so I'm

[3:16:23] Trustee Busheikin: sorry for that and we'll that's okay because we can incorporate this

[3:16:26] Trustee Busheikin: advice i think uh go ahead uh director marler yeah

[3:16:31] Voice 18: i think it's actually okay and i think we

[3:16:33] Voice 18: can address the concerns of um of lisa because the resolution is asking staff to report back

[3:16:39] Voice 18: um to recommend revisions um that do the following so for number five um we would

[3:16:48] Voice 18: obviously involve lisa in that and the report back might be to make some changes to that

[3:16:54] Voice 18: or even not do it and here's the reasons why or maybe Lisa would have some better wording that

[3:17:00] Voice 18: would address it this is just trying to capture that as part of the application fee there's going

[3:17:06] Voice 18: to be some consideration for First Nations like check on what's going on so this might not be the

[3:17:14] Voice 18: right wording but it gives us

[3:17:16] Voice 18: a starting point to come back with a recommendation to you

[3:17:19] Voice 11: yeah

[3:17:20] Voice 11: if you'd like if you'd like to use it as a placeholder for us to develop something around

[3:17:25] Voice 11: this and and create some good wording then i have i have no concerns with that

[3:17:32] Trustee Busheikin: thanks so much that sounds good um and um yep i see trustee wolverton nodding um that's great

[3:17:40] Trustee Busheikin: okay uh chair luckham um you had your hand up

[3:17:45] Trustee Luckham: did indeed um i had some process uh comments

[3:17:50] Trustee Luckham: And, you know, I just want to acknowledge that we have a really great minute taker, Robert Barlow, and he's managed to edit the motion after it was carried in order that it's presented on the screen in the fashion in which it was moved.

[3:18:07] Trustee Luckham: And I think that, you know, it's one of these learning things, and maybe I'm just more sensitive to it than others,

[3:18:12] Trustee Luckham: that because this is streaming on video

[3:18:17] Trustee Luckham: and because people are listening by audio,

[3:18:19] Trustee Luckham: there's two things.

[3:18:20] Trustee Luckham: One, that the motion should be ready to be voted on.

[3:18:23] Trustee Luckham: So that when we ask, are we ready?

[3:18:25] Trustee Luckham: Then it's ready on the screen.

[3:18:27] Trustee Luckham: And that two, that it's actually read out as intended

[3:18:30] Trustee Luckham: so that people that are listening by audio

[3:18:33] Trustee Luckham: can actually hear the motion.

[3:18:34] Trustee Luckham: So I think a little bit more going a little slower

[3:18:39] Trustee Luckham: on how the motions are managed.

[3:18:40] Trustee Luckham: I originally put my hand up on a process point that not everybody will necessarily be aware of because it's not generally used within Robert's rules, is to, because you've got four, now five points on a main motion, it might be that indeed individuals want to debate one or the other rather than all.

[3:19:01] Trustee Luckham: and so you can sever or split a motion in order to provide the opportunity for

[3:19:08] Trustee Luckham: people to address only some parts or one part separately from the others and so

[3:19:14] Trustee Luckham: if that is desired then you would want to make a motion to say sever item three

[3:19:21] Trustee Luckham: from the motion and then it would be debated in a separate discussion so that

[3:19:26] Trustee Luckham: that those options are available to everybody.

[3:19:30] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you.

[3:19:31] Trustee Busheikin: Yes, and that's good to know

[3:19:33] Trustee Busheikin: because you can run into the challenge

[3:19:36] Trustee Busheikin: of someone likes 0.1 to 3 and they don't like 0.4 or 5

[3:19:41] Trustee Busheikin: and so how do they vote?

[3:19:42] Trustee Busheikin: So that answers that question of what the options are.

[3:19:47] Trustee Busheikin: Trustee Peterson.

[3:19:52] Voice 24: Yeah, thank you.

[3:19:53] Voice 24: So just to the process here,

[3:19:57] Voice 24: hear uh i did see lisa's hand up um just before the vote was called and i really wanted to hear

[3:20:05] Voice 24: uh what she had to say so i ended up not voting on that motion um as i was she was trying to get

[3:20:11] Voice 24: her attention but you know the process so that's just an example of of maybe just giving an extra

[3:20:17] Voice 24: little pause before calling the question might might have been helpful there and uh yeah because

[3:20:25] Voice 24: because I think, you know, that's totally the area of expertise in which we've asked her to

[3:20:31] Voice 24: be our advice on. So yeah, thank you.

[3:20:35] Trustee Busheikin: Yes, yeah, definitely. I'm taking all of that in and the

[3:20:39] Trustee Busheikin: piece about slowing down both with motions and with voting and looking at the list of names

[3:20:48] Trustee Busheikin: where the hands go up, looking at people's faces, taking a breath, checking in with people, etc.

[3:20:54] Trustee Busheikin: etc. And I when I saw Lisa's hand up, I'm like that. That's like a glitch. Of course,

[3:20:59] Trustee Busheikin: it wasn't a glitch. It was that. So yeah, I will slow down and be more careful and responsive.

[3:21:05] Trustee Busheikin: So I now see Trustee Stanford's hand up. Go ahead.

[3:21:09] Trustee Stamford: Just just so everyone's aware,

[3:21:11] Trustee Stamford: I've lost my hand. So I'm going to be using my physical hand.

[3:21:16] Trustee Busheikin: You lost your hand. Okay. I will be watching you. And if you lose your head and your face,

[3:21:24] Trustee Busheikin: um you can chats see yes trustee morrison has just chatted and said use the chat for hands so that is

[3:21:34] Trustee Busheikin: another option i do see the chats i get a little pop-up so you can chat it's right at the bottom in

[3:21:40] Trustee Busheikin: the middle and just make sure that if you click on it it says for all or it could just be for me or

[3:21:45] Trustee Busheikin: just for staff um and you can text me because i have my phone and i have it on vibrate so you can

[3:21:53] Trustee Busheikin: can also text me um but hopefully this will work um and trustee does also has no hand um

[3:22:01] Trustee Busheikin: but we are going to continue we're just going to go nice and slow and make sure that this is

[3:22:08] Trustee Busheikin: really democratic and um please uh do jump in and prod me and remind me when um it's not

[3:22:16] Trustee Busheikin: people are getting left behind um it's really important and i i appreciate that uh so we have

[3:22:24] Trustee Busheikin: have a an amended motion um you know with an understanding that uh you know particularly

[3:22:30] Trustee Busheikin: the language in the amended motion but the whole thing is um about staff recommending revisions to

[3:22:37] Trustee Busheikin: do these things uh i did have myself on the speaker's list um wanting to propose uh an

[3:22:47] Trustee Busheikin: amendment so i'm not gonna propose the amendment i'm gonna go slowly i'm gonna say what's on my

[3:22:53] Trustee Busheikin: mind, which is around point three. It says that this definition of community benefits can be

[3:23:02] Trustee Busheikin: considered by LTCs when adopting their fees bylaws. I also heard interest that definition

[3:23:11] Trustee Busheikin: of community benefits might be useful for a review of the EC sponsorship policy as well,

[3:23:25] Trustee Busheikin: which is kind of, yeah, I don't know if it was originally in the terms of reference for this,

[3:23:31] Trustee Busheikin: but it's certainly relevant. So I'm wondering if that's understood or if that should be added,

[3:23:37] Trustee Busheikin: it and if I'm the only person who remembers that being part of the conversation or thinks it's

[3:23:42] Trustee Busheikin: important. Yeah

[3:23:48] Trustee Busheikin: let's hear from staff and then Chair Patrick.

[3:23:51] Voice 18: Yeah I think it might be a bit

[3:23:53] Voice 18: out of scope. The policy is a separate policy of the executive committee and it's very specific

[3:24:01] Voice 18: and it's for you know non-profits and taxpayer funded where it's there's a community benefit.

[3:24:07] Voice 18: benefit. So, you know, if you would like council to review that, I think that'd be a separate

[3:24:16] Voice 18: business item and separate resolution.

[3:24:19] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, thank you. Vice Chair Patrick, would you like to

[3:24:23] Trustee Busheikin: still speak to that?

[3:24:25] Trustee Patrick: Yes. I mean, community benefit shows up in a couple of places and

[3:24:31] Trustee Patrick: Deb Morrison will note that North Pender and Salt Spring Coffee did it as well. We added a standing

[3:24:36] Trustee Patrick: standing resolution about applicants having to cease their illegal uses while we process

[3:24:46] Trustee Patrick: their applications, unless there's a community benefit. And so we have the same, we've just ran

[3:24:52] Trustee Patrick: into that here on Salt Spring with a very public one. And a lawyer contacted me going, you know,

[3:24:57] Trustee Patrick: well, you don't define community benefit. And you're, you know, what if you turn it down? Are

[3:25:01] Trustee Patrick: you going to be exposing yourself to a lawsuit? So anyway, I think there's a broader conversation

[3:25:05] Trustee Patrick: that perhaps needs to occur um you know there's benefits there's benefits to the community benefit

[3:25:12] Trustee Patrick: being a you know open to political decision but then there is the risk of not being consistent

[3:25:20] Trustee Patrick: and what that means so it it may require a broader conversation i guess i look at plan

[3:25:26] Trustee Patrick: at planners can we can community benefit be defined differently amongst different tools

[3:25:33] Trustee Patrick: rules or should it be only once?

[3:25:38] Trustee Busheikin: Director Marler.

[3:25:41] Voice 18: Yeah, through the chair, you certainly can define

[3:25:45] Voice 18: it differently. Your LCP will have community benefits for the purpose of the LCP. In this

[3:25:51] Voice 18: case, the definitions would only apply to the fee bylaw. So it's almost, it's read as for the

[3:25:57] Voice 18: purposes of this bylaw, community benefit means, which is how all the definitions are inside your

[3:26:03] Voice 18: bylaw thank

[3:26:05] Trustee Busheikin: you um after hearing that discussion i'm not going to proceed with any amendment

[3:26:12] Trustee Busheikin: also so i just reminded myself how um how helpful everyone's advice was that i did not just jump

[3:26:20] Trustee Busheikin: into the amendment to get things moving that had discussion first uh so um chair luckham your hand

[3:26:26] Trustee Busheikin: is up and we're not hearing you your hand is down there you go

[3:26:35] Trustee Luckham: so okay um david uh

[3:26:39] Trustee Luckham: seriously complicated conversation there because um hopefully we wouldn't have 40 different

[3:26:49] Trustee Luckham: definitions of community benefit lingering around um it's i brought i raised this in the trust

[3:26:57] Trustee Luckham: policy statement conversation last week that it's it's referenced as something we should be

[3:27:03] Trustee Luckham: considering and yet it's not even defined in the act under the legislation it doesn't say

[3:27:08] Trustee Luckham: community that we should be working towards community benefits it uses other language so

[3:27:13] Trustee Luckham: um that's uh interesting so just leave it there um we ideally we would want to tie them all

[3:27:21] Trustee Luckham: all together to say the same thing.

[3:27:24] Trustee Luckham: But maybe that's not possible, I don't know.

[3:27:27] Trustee Luckham: Sorry.

[3:27:27] Trustee Busheikin: And just reflecting as a chair,

[3:27:30] Trustee Busheikin: this is already a really broad project,

[3:27:33] Trustee Busheikin: this model fees by-law and associated work.

[3:27:37] Trustee Busheikin: And I think we are not,

[3:27:40] Trustee Busheikin: I would suggest we don't address this challenge

[3:27:45] Trustee Busheikin: about a global trust-wide definition

[3:27:48] Trustee Busheikin: of community benefit at this point,

[3:27:51] Trustee Busheikin: although we've certainly shone a light on it trustee Peterson yeah

[3:27:57] Voice 24: just just

[3:27:58] Voice 24: briefly on the community benefit showing up in different places and possibly

[3:28:03] Voice 24: being defined differently I was just noting that there was a community

[3:28:08] Voice 24: benefit land trust piece in the February 5th TPC meeting and so just concerned

[3:28:14] Voice 24: that when we use terms I think it is confusing if we start having different

[3:28:22] Voice 24: definitions in different areas even if we are allowed to do so just my two

[3:28:27] Voice 24: cents on that thank

[3:28:29] Trustee Busheikin: you so more discussion on the motion before us I do

[3:28:37] Trustee Busheikin: have one comment question and I believe it's for staff in how they would

[3:28:42] Trustee Busheikin: would understand this what I was hoping to see wasn't so much a um a revised policy um it was

[3:28:55] Trustee Busheikin: uh more of a presentation of options so we've got one policy before us like one set of numbers in

[3:29:03] Trustee Busheikin: particular based on one way of calculating the numbers and I'd like to see a different way

[3:29:09] Trustee Busheikin: say in you know relation like to include overhead and weighted averages and and maybe a you know a

[3:29:17] Trustee Busheikin: bit of a pros and cons analysis so that we could because I don't think that this group has decided

[3:29:25] Trustee Busheikin: that that is preferable we just we've heard there's interest in it and I think we need to

[3:29:32] Trustee Busheikin: we need to decide if it's preferable so without changing the you know does this does staff

[3:29:38] Trustee Busheikin: understand this this motion and to the people in the committee understand this

[3:29:42] Trustee Busheikin: motion more as bringing forward some alternatives but not throwing out what

[3:29:47] Trustee Busheikin: we have but bringing forward alternatives so that we can look at

[3:29:50] Trustee Busheikin: options yeah

[3:29:53] Voice 18: so the way we will respond to this if it passes is

[3:30:00] Voice 18: come back to you at the next Regional Planning Committee meeting with an RFD that goes through

[3:30:07] Voice 18: the options for each one of these and staff recommendation. That recommendation might be

[3:30:13] Voice 18: don't change it or change it and this is how we think you should change it. And then you can

[3:30:19] Voice 18: either pick one of the options or agree with staff.

[3:30:22] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you. That sounds great. Okay,

[3:30:27] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, Trustee Wolverton.

[3:30:30] Voice 6: I guess I would probably want to ask the same thing about number four.

[3:30:35] Voice 6: You know, if you were going to compare, say, the last five years of the Consumer Price Index with the past five years of actual costs.

[3:30:45] Voice 6: I don't know if that's a complicated kind of comparison to make, but that might help also with that particular one.

[3:30:54] Voice 6: number

[3:30:56] Voice 18: five um sorry number four yeah

[3:30:59] Voice 6: yeah

[3:30:59] Voice 18: so i think what we would do with that is it would also

[3:31:03] Voice 18: come back with a recommendation based on some options so we'll look at first of all legally

[3:31:08] Voice 18: could we use the um actual cost or does that create problems so that would be a legal request

[3:31:15] Voice 18: to our lawyers that we will seek and then we'll use that advice in our recommendation

[3:31:21] Voice 18: recommendation. But it's not going to be an analysis of what the impact could be because

[3:31:28] Voice 18: we don't know what the CCDI is going to do over the next five years. And I think looking back

[3:31:34] Voice 18: five years on it is probably not going to give as much insight. Same goes for the cost of the

[3:31:42] Voice 18: operations. So all we can do is just let you know what the, you know, what would happen and how it

[3:31:49] Voice 18: would work and um whether or not we can do it

[3:31:54] Trustee Busheikin: thank you uh trustee peterson thank

[3:32:03] Voice 24: you yeah so

[3:32:04] Voice 24: um in terms of uh point number one um adding an objective of the policy um i just was thinking

[3:32:16] Voice 24: about you know the i think it was around two years ago that um the uh committee started

[3:32:25] Voice 24: started discussing this. And my recollection is that when we looked at the amounts that we were

[3:32:36] Voice 24: actually recovering, I think I certainly was kind of rather shocked at how big the gap was.

[3:32:44] Voice 24: So I'm just wondering in terms of looking at that to help sort of explain everything,

[3:32:53] Voice 24: if we could have some of that data included I think is helpful because when

[3:32:59] Voice 24: I first saw those numbers I was like wow we really need to do something about

[3:33:04] Voice 24: this thank you yeah thank

[3:33:07] Voice 12: you thank

[3:33:09] Trustee Busheikin: you are there more comments or questions go

[3:33:14] Trustee Busheikin: ahead trustee Morrison can't hear you all

[3:33:21] Voice 8: right I keep forgetting it's my phone

[3:33:23] Voice 8: I just wanted to follow up on trustee Peterson's comment so I think it would

[3:33:29] Voice 8: would be very helpful particularly for the June meeting and probably for this committee's future

[3:33:34] Voice 8: meetings but particularly when this comes back to trustees to have that type of analysis of

[3:33:38] Voice 8: what is the cost recovery because that's going to be one of the conversations at the broader

[3:33:43] Voice 8: trust council and so to preemptively strike so we're not delayed another few months would be

[3:33:47] Voice 8: amazing.

[3:33:50] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you yeah I think there's things that we looked at a long time ago that need to

[3:33:55] Trustee Busheikin: be brought forward again for information um okay more comments or questions so we would be voting

[3:34:05] Trustee Busheikin: on the amended motion and i'm going to let me put this way is everyone ready for me to call the

[3:34:14] Trustee Busheikin: question on the motion no trustee stamford go ahead um

[3:34:19] Trustee Stamford: for those people on the phone we haven't

[3:34:22] Trustee Stamford: actually read it out

[3:34:22] Trustee Busheikin: okay so

[3:34:24] Trustee Stamford: would you like me to do that i

[3:34:26] Trustee Busheikin: would like that very much thank you

[3:34:27] Trustee Busheikin: I

[3:34:29] Trustee Stamford: move that the Regional Planning Committee request staff to recommend revisions to the Application Processing Services and Development Approval Information Policy for consideration at the next Regional Planning Committee meeting.

[3:34:41] Trustee Stamford: These are, one, adds objective to the policy in relation to cost recovery for application processing.

[3:34:49] Trustee Stamford: Two, adds definition of average costs to include overhead and weighted average of staff hourly costs.

[3:34:56] Trustee Stamford: Three, adds a definition of community benefits that specifies the type of community benefits that may be considered by LTCs when adopting their fee bylaws.

[3:35:06] Trustee Stamford: And four, adds a policy stating how the annual fee increase will be calculated that considers using actual costs rather than CCPI.

[3:35:16] Trustee Stamford: and the amended portion that regional planning committee amend the motion to add a policy one

[3:35:26] Trustee Stamford: discussion over 1.3.1 remote access to archaeological data okay

[3:35:34] Trustee Busheikin: thank you and that

[3:35:36] Trustee Busheikin: was moved and seconded um so i think we're now ready to call the question and what i'm going to

[3:35:42] Trustee Busheikin: do just for clearing and also for everyone on the phone because when we're in a group in

[3:35:47] Trustee Busheikin: in person, people can see how people vote. I'm going to go through when I see the hands going

[3:35:53] Trustee Busheikin: up, I'm going to say the names of everyone. And that way also you can make sure that your vote

[3:35:57] Trustee Busheikin: was really registered and that you're not left out and just to take it really carefully. So let's

[3:36:05] Trustee Busheikin: try that. So everyone in favor of the motion, raise your hand.

[3:36:09] Trustee Busheikin: I'm in favor. Okay. I'm in favor.

[3:36:12] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, good. And then what I see on the screen is I am in favor, Trustee Longerice,

[3:36:21] Trustee Busheikin: Wolverson, Peterson, and Patrick in favor. So that is seven in favor. If you voted in favor

[3:36:30] Trustee Busheikin: and didn't hear your name, then let me know. Okay, so everyone lower your hand,

[3:36:40] Trustee Busheikin: and anyone against the motion so that motion carries thank you that felt much more orderly

[3:36:51] Trustee Busheikin: um and transparent great um there is if um and i know we really need to move on but there was one

[3:37:00] Trustee Busheikin: more piece that was discussed numerous times that wasn't in this motion and i think that might be

[3:37:04] Trustee Busheikin: okay i just want to name it and make sure that it is okay we did discuss the question of consequences

[3:37:09] Trustee Busheikin: for local trust committees who don't adopt don't change their fees according to the

[3:37:17] Trustee Busheikin: the new fees model bylaw that is likely to exist did we want to consider that and if so do we want

[3:37:26] Trustee Busheikin: staff to bring anything forward or simply to make sure it's on the agenda for the next meeting or do

[3:37:31] Trustee Busheikin: we think that this is not really the work of rpc i'm seeing a nope one head going side to side and

[3:37:39] Trustee Busheikin: and not much else.

[3:37:43] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, Trustee Peterson, go ahead.

[3:37:47] Voice 24: Yeah, thank you.

[3:37:49] Voice 24: I think that it's probably a lot more productive

[3:37:53] Voice 24: for us to think about this

[3:37:56] Voice 24: in terms of working towards buy-in from LTCs

[3:38:02] Voice 24: rather than starting from a punitive sounding approach.

[3:38:09] Voice 24: And so I'd like to see us,

[3:38:10] Voice 24: if we're going to do anything about this let's approach it in that in that manner first um and

[3:38:17] Voice 24: if it becomes problematic you know i just i let's put the cart where it should be in the horse in

[3:38:24] Voice 24: its proper place thank you okay

[3:38:25] Trustee Busheikin: i was seeing some nodding and thumbs upping uh trustee morrison

[3:38:31] Trustee Busheikin: and just oh and you're muted but if i could just um you know make sure that my question was not

[3:38:37] Trustee Busheikin: let's solve this now but it's do we want to flag it and put it on the agenda for next week because

[3:38:41] Trustee Busheikin: we need to next week next meeting um so that we're not actually opening up the the topic uh trustee

[3:38:49] Trustee Busheikin: morrison mute unmute unmute about

[3:38:56] Voice 9: now okay

[3:38:58] Trustee Busheikin: yeah i hear you all right i don't

[3:39:04] Voice 9: try now okay so

[3:39:08] Voice 8: um

[3:39:09] Voice 8: yeah i don't i don't think that that's a worry necessarily because i agree with trustee peterson

[3:39:13] Voice 8: that we're going to generally go in that direction and there already exists policy

[3:39:16] Voice 8: policy that we've never leveraged as the trust, but that we could if we needed to around in the

[3:39:22] Voice 8: trust policy statement that we could deal with if we wanted to. So I don't think that we need

[3:39:29] Voice 8: to worry about that. I think we proceed with doing what's right, like in whatever you decide

[3:39:33] Voice 8: is our committee to do. And then we move forward to trust counsel and then we'll just like play it

[3:39:37] Voice 8: it out there and figure that out sounds

[3:39:39] Trustee Busheikin: good thank you okay um and now what i'm wondering

[3:39:47] Trustee Busheikin: we still i mean we haven't had in-depth discussion of the policy or the dai report but i um i would

[3:39:55] Trustee Busheikin: like to move on uh go ahead director marler that was going to be my next question does staff have

[3:40:01] Trustee Busheikin: anything they need us to look at. Can't hear you. Unmute.

[3:40:07] Voice 18: I realize that the mute button's in a

[3:40:10] Voice 18: different place because I'm sharing my screen. What I wanted to ask is, there was a comment

[3:40:17] Voice 18: about doing an analysis of cost recovery based on the data that we've collected. So that would be

[3:40:26] Voice 18: looking at the actual cost and this is in relation to the object of the policy

[3:40:37] Voice 18: that is adding an objective in the policy in relation to cost recovery for application

[3:40:42] Voice 18: processing. So I just wanted to make it clear that we would be coming back with wording for

[3:40:49] Voice 18: a policy that would be something like the intent of this policy is to recover 80 percent or 100

[3:40:56] Voice 18: percent and you can pick of the application fee but we're not going to be doing an analysis of

[3:41:04] Voice 18: the data in support of that so if you would like that then that would be a separate resolution

[3:41:12] Voice 18: in other words if you want us to do an analysis more analysis so I can certainly bring the report

[3:41:17] Voice 18: report back that you have on the agenda today, which has the numbers, but we don't have any

[3:41:23] Voice 18: direction to refine those numbers, right? We talked earlier about looking at different

[3:41:31] Voice 18: dollar values, such as weighted averages and things like that. So right now, I don't have

[3:41:37] Voice 18: any direction to do that, right? I'm happy to leave it, but it's up to you if you want us to

[3:41:47] Voice 18: come back with more nuances on that report then i need a resolution for that i'm not

[3:41:56] Trustee Busheikin: seeing anyone and i feel like there's quite a lot going on already with this yeah i'm fine

[3:42:02] Trustee Busheikin: with that i just want to make sure

[3:42:03] Voice 18: that was clear good

[3:42:05] Trustee Busheikin: and is there anything else in this uh whole

[3:42:07] Trustee Busheikin: item um 5.1 is there anything else that staff would like to uh get feedback on or that trustees

[3:42:15] Trustee Busheikin: feel we we need to discuss uh go ahead trustee wolverton you need to unmute um

[3:42:26] Voice 6: are we going to

[3:42:27] Voice 6: talk at all about the model development approval information bylaw or are we sort of past well

[3:42:33] Trustee Busheikin: that's my question i just i mean it is quarter to two and we will be seeing the whole thing again so

[3:42:41] Trustee Busheikin: um if there's something that you feel that um we should talk about that staff need to get working

[3:42:48] Trustee Busheikin: on with the, you know, the hope that we could get this to Council by June, then I would invite you

[3:42:54] Trustee Busheikin: to bring it up. But otherwise, I would like to move us to the next item on the agenda.

[3:43:01] Trustee Busheikin: Director Marlar.

[3:43:02] Voice 18: If I may, if you read this and you see typos or something like that, just email

[3:43:07] Voice 18: me and Nerissa and we'll make those corrections. Otherwise, if you see a substantive change you'd

[3:43:13] Voice 18: like then that should be brought up in a resolution to ask us to make that change.

[3:43:19] Voice 6: I had a, my comments are that in some places there's reference to, this is going into the

[3:43:27] Voice 6: part number 19 where the type of information and the consulting professional is identified

[3:43:35] Voice 6: on page 37, 38 and so on and it's in some places there's a registered professional biologist and

[3:43:42] Voice 6: And in others, there's a QEP, the Qualified Environmental Professional, who also can be a biologist, etc.

[3:43:50] Voice 6: And so I just wondered why, say, for the sensitive ecosystem, we wouldn't include a QEP or the environmental assessment, conservation assessment, background analysis, tree and native vegetation.

[3:44:05] Voice 6: Seems to me that those are also fall within the purview of their QEPs.

[3:44:12] Voice 6: could

[3:44:12] Voice 18: you email that to us and we can look at that

[3:44:14] Voice 18: and respond to that yeah and i don't need

[3:44:18] Voice 18: resolution for that kind of thing that's good okay

[3:44:20] Trustee Busheikin: yeah and um trustee longer i see you've got

[3:44:24] Trustee Busheikin: your hand up and that's fine but again i just would like to give the guideline that um we we

[3:44:28] Trustee Busheikin: will have this before us in about five weeks uh so if there's something that is of substance that

[3:44:36] Trustee Busheikin: that needs to get worked on between now and then,

[3:44:39] Trustee Busheikin: or you think needs to be worked on, go ahead.

[3:44:42] Trustee Busheikin: But otherwise I'd suggest either contact planning staff

[3:44:44] Trustee Busheikin: directly or save it till next week.

[3:44:47] Voice 13: Yeah, just quickly,

[3:44:48] Voice 13: it's a tech development application.

[3:44:52] Voice 13: The definition on page 33 at the top

[3:44:55] Voice 13: doesn't include reference to a development variance permit.

[3:45:01] Voice 18: Yeah, that's because the development

[3:45:04] Voice 18: approval information legislation

[3:45:07] Voice 18: only allows development approval information for those three listed zoning bylaws development

[3:45:12] Voice 18: permit and temporary use permit okay okay thank you okay

[3:45:18] Trustee Busheikin: uh i'm not seeing any other hands up

[3:45:22] Trustee Busheikin: and i i so i think there's nothing substantive we will see this again um and yeah with the

[3:45:29] Trustee Busheikin: detailed questions like that i think it's fine to contact planners um ahead of time um and they can

[3:45:36] Trustee Busheikin: can work with you and then, you know, change what's coming before us, because it isn't really

[3:45:42] Trustee Busheikin: major changing the import of what we're doing. Okay, I want to thank everyone here, and

[3:45:48] Trustee Busheikin: particularly the people, and they're not all here, who made time, even though they're not on this

[3:45:55] Trustee Busheikin: committee. It's been a really good discussion. I want to thank our staff for all their work on

[3:46:01] Trustee Busheikin: this and then we keep sending them back to do more work uh so um kudos all around and we will be

[3:46:08] Trustee Busheikin: seeing this again trustee morrison's heading off so thank you and have a good afternoon and let's

[3:46:14] Trustee Busheikin: move on to 5.2 we've got some updates which is great to hear how things are moving along on other

[3:46:21] Trustee Busheikin: projects so and uh case i see your hand up is that just it didn't go down or did you have a something

[3:46:28] Trustee Busheikin: and yeah then you're muted muted i think he's yeah he's taking his hand down okay uh so i imagine

[3:46:40] Trustee Busheikin: we'll get um our freshwater specialist uh william shulba in for 5.2.1 is that true uh

[3:46:47] Voice 18: nope that's me

[3:46:48] Voice 18: oh

[3:46:49] Trustee Busheikin: that's shoreline review uh yeah go ahead so

[3:46:52] Voice 18: actually for 521 and 524 i can do those two

[3:46:55] Voice 18: together and it's really quick we have put out the um uh we put out a request for a proposal

[3:47:03] Voice 18: i'm sorry expressions of interest and we received responses um the response was over the dollars

[3:47:10] Voice 18: that we had available so we were able to reduce the scope slightly by removing the creation of

[3:47:18] Voice 18: an actual model bylaw and instead focusing on providing options and recommendations for

[3:47:25] Voice 18: adoption and we can easily convert those into model bylaws in-house, that's not really a

[3:47:30] Voice 18: problem.

[3:47:32] Voice 18: So the contract for that is just being signed right now and that company will be working

[3:47:39] Voice 18: on that for the remainder of this fiscal year.

[3:47:41] Voice 18: So both projects are fairly quick to do.

[3:47:44] Voice 18: We will have a kickoff meeting as soon as possible and then they can just go away and get the work

[3:47:51] Voice 18: done. So shoreline review and flurry ratio are underway.

[3:47:57] Trustee Busheikin: Great. Any questions? Go ahead Chair

[3:48:02] Trustee Busheikin: Patrick. Vice

[3:48:04] Trustee Patrick: Chair Patrick. Yeah what am I? Trustee Patrick. Laura. The Thetis yesterday

[3:48:12] Trustee Patrick: had a great conversation. I just wanted to briefly share because I think it's a good

[3:48:16] Trustee Patrick: conversation that all our local trust committee should be aiming toward we were talking about our

[3:48:20] Trustee Patrick: priority projects and shoreline was um their next priority but we very clearly had the conversation

[3:48:26] Trustee Patrick: that they were not looking at it in terms of let's run and just do something on our own they

[3:48:31] Trustee Patrick: were talking about what this was going to be and what gambier was doing and uh you know so it was

[3:48:36] Trustee Patrick: a very inclusive look that they weren't trying to join the band to go off in a different direction

[3:48:41] Trustee Patrick: but to join voice and make sure that we're being strategic in it so I thought it was a it was a

[3:48:46] Trustee Patrick: good conversation and one that really worked to pull and think of what's happening everywhere

[3:48:50] Trustee Patrick: in relation to the shorelines before they even applied it to be a top priority so

[3:48:56] Trustee Patrick: just wanted to share that thank you that's

[3:48:59] Trustee Busheikin: uh really great um yeah okay good so uh 5.2.2 and

[3:49:09] Trustee Busheikin: and 5.2.3.

[3:49:11] Voice 18: So 5.2.2 that would be Nerissa providing that update so I'll pass it over to

[3:49:17] Voice 18: Nerissa through the chair.

[3:49:21] Voice 22: Yeah so just updating you on where we are at with the freshwater

[3:49:25] Voice 22: sustainability strategy development. As you'll recall we all came together in December and that's

[3:49:34] Voice 22: when the the funding opportunity was uh was introduced to you and um i'm happy to report

[3:49:43] Voice 22: that we have confirmation as of friday um we got a draft agreement for 180 000 for that project

[3:49:51] Voice 22: oh actually sorry it's 190 so we were actually at the 11th hour able to add an additional 10 000 for

[3:49:59] Voice 22: Indigenous youth engagement and that was sort of stimulated by my conversations with a couple of

[3:50:08] Voice 22: the Indigenous advisors that will be participating in the process. They had questions about youth

[3:50:14] Voice 22: engagement so we were very lucky because it is a priority to engage youth and to engage First

[3:50:24] Voice 22: nations the the funders um um were able to to sort of find an additional ten thousand dollars for us

[3:50:31] Voice 22: to put towards that process so it's very exciting and um and that uh yeah so so we were working on

[3:50:40] Voice 22: developing what that's going to look like and it will um be integrated with with the overall

[3:50:45] Voice 22: strategy development process so um our consultants thus far um have done a series of interviews

[3:50:54] Voice 22: with a number of different people who are coming from different perspectives on fresh water.

[3:51:02] Voice 22: So it's involved staff.

[3:51:03] Voice 22: It's involved some water professionals.

[3:51:09] Voice 22: And it's involved trustee, Vice Chair Patrick and Chair Shakin have been involved in that process.

[3:51:20] Voice 22: and you may want to provide some uh reflection on your experience after uh in a bit here but um

[3:51:28] Voice 22: the the next the the the consultants also engaged the a number of staff in a workshop recently

[3:51:37] Voice 22: um looking at uh sort of staff's interpretation of of of of where where we're going where things

[3:51:45] Voice 22: are at and and and really uh these processes have and at the same time the the uh consultants also

[3:51:54] Voice 22: done a very in-depth and in-depth lit literature review so they're developing a very very good uh

[3:52:01] Voice 22: and sort of like well-rounded and in-depth kind of understanding of of the trust and and um the

[3:52:09] Voice 22: governance structure different perspectives and that's going to be further informed and what will

[3:52:15] Voice 22: will be sort of like the the real focus of the development of the strategy is the engagement of

[3:52:20] Voice 22: an advisory roundtable so this is going to be a process that's going to involve about 25 advisors

[3:52:27] Voice 22: well 20 advisors i guess

[3:52:28] Voice 15: um

[3:52:29] Voice 22: and these people are it's going to uh russ it's going to include russ

[3:52:35] Voice 22: David and Robert on the staff side, as well as myself and William. Three trustees, so

[3:52:47] Voice 22: Chair Patrick and Chair Boushegan will be involved in that process as they've been involved in the

[3:52:58] Voice 22: interview process and we're looking for an additional trustee to be part of that process

[3:53:02] Voice 22: and i understand that's going to be part of the discussion here and um i'll just i'll just i'll

[3:53:07] Voice 22: just finish my update and then we can maybe move into that discussion um so the round table the

[3:53:15] Voice 22: other members of that round table it'll include representatives from the province regional

[3:53:19] Voice 22: districts we've got three um indigenous uh advisors on that um we'll have water purveyors

[3:53:27] Voice 22: in the trust and a couple of members from community organizations Hornby and Laskiti

[3:53:35] Voice 22: who are going to be involved in the implementation process projects that we introduced previously

[3:53:40] Voice 22: so it's going to be we've really tried hard to get a variety of perspectives

[3:53:45] Voice 22: and that process is going to involve sort of three main meetings zoom is a challenging way to

[3:53:54] Voice 22: to to engage um and so the consultants have put a lot of thought into how to make that effective

[3:54:00] Voice 22: and so this is going to happen over the course of the next three months basically starting

[3:54:06] Voice 22: beginning of march and into the beginning of may and that'll gather more information um to

[3:54:13] Voice 22: ultimately uh put towards the uh inform the development of of the strategy um i'll also add

[3:54:22] Voice 22: that that we're planning to hold a workshop for trustees for interested

[3:54:28] Voice 22: trustees so that that'll be the the timing of that will we get to identify

[3:54:34] Voice 22: and an open invitation to whomever might want to participate will go out I mean

[3:54:45] Voice 22: and really actually the question is for you if you feel like that's the right

[3:54:48] Voice 22: right approach or whether we should just be engaging this committee. So that really is a

[3:54:57] Voice 22: question for you. I think that that's sort of the extent of my update. The freshwater

[3:55:05] Voice 22: sustainability strategy and the groundwater work, they are really coming together and dovetailing

[3:55:13] Voice 22: very well. The work that we'll be engaging in with LTC's, Galliano has already endorsed the

[3:55:23] Voice 22: project charter that we put forward to move forward with looking at policy options that

[3:55:29] Voice 22: will connect to the groundwater work. And that's going to inform the strategy and it's also going

[3:55:34] Voice 22: to be informed by, so the literature review that our consultants have done is really going to help

[3:55:41] Voice 22: inform that process as well. So I'll hand it over to you for questions.

[3:55:46] Trustee Busheikin: Well thank you very much Planner Chadwick for that update and you know that's great

[3:55:54] Trustee Busheikin: news about the funding. I'm really pleased to see that. So I see that Senior Intergovernmental

[3:56:02] Trustee Busheikin: Policy Advisor Wilcox has her hand up so let's invite her to speak. Go ahead.

[3:56:08] Trustee Busheikin: I

[3:56:10] Voice 11: just want to add a few comments to what Nerissa had said in her verbal update.

[3:56:17] Voice 11: I just really want to commend the staff, both William and Nerissa. Really, this is a good model

[3:56:24] Voice 11: of how to do things. They came forward before when they were looking at their grant and were

[3:56:30] Voice 11: looking at the funding and saw that there was an element to the funding that included First

[3:56:35] Voice 11: First Nations engagement and instead of kind of assuming or or thinking you know maybe the

[3:56:41] Voice 11: consultant would know how to do that or or just making any assumptions at all they came and

[3:56:47] Voice 11: engaged with me and I was just really happy about that and it really created positive outcomes

[3:56:56] Voice 11: not only to it to ensure that we have cultural knowledge holders on the advisory panels

[3:57:02] Voice 11: But also Narissa going out and getting this extra $10,000, just really, really stellar work. And that wouldn't have happened if they hadn't come and started asking about how this could be such a great project and a model for how the Trust can move forward.

[3:57:23] Voice 11: So I just really wanted to add that to the words that Nerissa said, that I really wanted to thank Nerissa and William for coming forward and doing that at the very beginning.

[3:57:36] Voice 11: And just want to let everyone know that that had happened and they'd done such good work and really done a lot of the heavy lifting in regards to that.

[3:57:47] Voice 11: I'm super busy. And they, they just did a really, really great job in in helping me understand what

[3:57:54] Voice 11: was happening with this project, what the funding meant, and, and how we could create something

[3:57:59] Voice 11: that was much more relational and, and integrated of reconciliation. So I just want to add those

[3:58:08] Voice 14: words.

[3:58:14] Trustee Busheikin: I thank you for for adding those words and that appreciation and just helping everyone

[3:58:20] Trustee Busheikin: one um in this meeting to really see uh how meaningful all that that work was and the the

[3:58:30] Trustee Busheikin: way staff were were proactive in in making this a much more exemplary project that is uh as you say

[3:58:38] Trustee Busheikin: um the term was relational which i really like and and inclusive of our actual goals for

[3:58:46] Trustee Busheikin: reconciliation uh so again i and i echo the the thanks to staff for that um and this has become

[3:58:54] Trustee Busheikin: a very exciting project uh so are there other comments and questions no and i also i just want

[3:59:05] Trustee Busheikin: to thank also lisa for um for uh you know her role in getting it to where it is and responding to

[3:59:12] Trustee Busheikin: staff when they came uh with no doubt their request for consultation and collaboration uh

[3:59:19] Trustee Busheikin: okay tim i see your hand yeah

[3:59:24] Voice 24: thank you um so i just wanted to uh to say that i'm um willing to

[3:59:30] Voice 24: uh be part of that uh or be the extra trustee and um if no one else is i'm also if someone else is

[3:59:39] Voice 24: really keen to do it i'm also uh happy to to defer that but i just wanted to okay

[3:59:46] Trustee Busheikin: thank you uh so

[3:59:48] Trustee Busheikin: that i mean that is her uh you know sort of next item um but just before we go to that hold that

[3:59:54] Trustee Busheikin: thought i see thumbs going up but just before we go to actually choosing that person are there any

[3:59:58] Trustee Busheikin: any more questions or comments about.

[4:00:00] Trustee Busheikin: the project generally at this point no okay I just uh trustee

[4:00:05] Trustee Patrick: Patrick go ahead I just wanted to add

[4:00:08] Trustee Patrick: um again uh through my role as the chair on SWPA which is the Salt Spring Island Watershed

[4:00:12] Trustee Patrick: Protection Alliance that some I think I talked to you before there was some exciting things

[4:00:18] Trustee Patrick: happened with the coastal Douglas fir project that got started on Salt Spring um the the work

[4:00:24] Trustee Patrick: quickly narrowed in on watersheds and it was exciting that we were able to take the Salt

[4:00:30] Trustee Patrick: watershed alliance and say oh now we need to take and realign our strategies back with the coastal

[4:00:36] Trustee Patrick: so it was really cool to see the benefits of these big issues focusing and coming together

[4:00:44] Trustee Patrick: and so just wanted to share that thank

[4:00:48] Trustee Busheikin: you thanks yes and I wanted to share that you know I spent

[4:00:53] Trustee Busheikin: over an hour being interviewed by the two consultants who are working on the freshwater

[4:00:59] Trustee Busheikin: water sustainability strategy and it was um it was a high point of that week it was uh very uh

[4:01:07] Trustee Busheikin: they were very uh just thoughtful in their approach they were really grappling with the

[4:01:15] Trustee Busheikin: complexity of the trust and and understood it in in ways that really impressed me and um

[4:01:21] Trustee Busheikin: you could feel how much they cared about water and its role in, you know, keeping ecosystems

[4:01:31] Trustee Busheikin: healthy, its role in human communities, that, you know, concerned about the threats of climate

[4:01:36] Trustee Busheikin: change, you could feel that. But mainly, what really struck me is how, how fully they understood

[4:01:42] Trustee Busheikin: the complexity of our work, and the importance of this strategy being something that will actually

[4:01:47] Trustee Busheikin: actually make a difference, make a difference to the ecosystem, to the water, to communities,

[4:01:55] Trustee Busheikin: to First Nations, to our relationships with First Nations, all of that really came through.

[4:02:02] Trustee Busheikin: And it gave me just a really good feeling about this admittedly ambitious project

[4:02:11] Trustee Busheikin: that I think, for me, has kind of gone further than I ever originally imagined it would with

[4:02:16] Trustee Busheikin: this funding coming in and this uh council coming together this advisory council so those are just

[4:02:23] Trustee Busheikin: my comments um and if there's nothing else then we will we can move on to um appointing someone

[4:02:30] Trustee Busheikin: to sit on the uh is it a steering committee is that the correct term uh we call it the

[4:02:36] Trustee Busheikin: advisory round table this advisory round table okay i'm gonna write that down uh

[4:02:43] Voice 2: Chair, I'm shaking this for a point of information that the roundtable is meant to be formulated

[4:02:50] Voice 2: as part of this project and then dissolved.

[4:02:53] Voice 2: And then going forward, there may be like a technical advisory or some sort of advisory

[4:02:59] Voice 2: board that would be more permanent.

[4:03:01] Voice 2: So this is not a long-term commitment from a trustee.

[4:03:05] Trustee Busheikin: Yeah, I understood that.

[4:03:06] Trustee Busheikin: I heard three main meetings over about three months.

[4:03:09] Trustee Busheikin: Okay.

[4:03:10] Trustee Busheikin: Okay. So Tim Peterson has stepped forward. And like, is there anyone else who feels called to

[4:03:18] Trustee Busheikin: do this? Trustee Stamford? Can I just

[4:03:22] Trustee Stamford: add, I just didn't hear who the first trustee representative

[4:03:26] Trustee Stamford: was. But I just wasn't. The reason I'm thinking of is I'm not sure if there's a representation

[4:03:33] Trustee Stamford: from the house sound area. So that's why I'm putting my name forward.

[4:03:36] Trustee Stamford: okay

[4:03:36] Trustee Busheikin: there's trustee Patrick and myself yeah

[4:03:40] Trustee Stamford: so I think um I'd like to to be considered as a

[4:03:44] Trustee Stamford: representative of slightly different um water issues from the house

[4:03:50] Trustee Stamford: on point of view okay

[4:03:51] Trustee Busheikin: uh I don't know if we need to have in-camera voting I don't think so um but uh it just

[4:04:00] Trustee Busheikin: Is there anyone else?

[4:04:03] Trustee Busheikin: No, okay.

[4:04:04] Trustee Busheikin: Trustee Peterson, go ahead.

[4:04:08] Voice 24: Yeah, based on what Trustee Stamford just said

[4:04:12] Voice 24: and realizing that you, Chair Beshekin,

[4:04:16] Voice 24: are just over on Denman Island,

[4:04:17] Voice 24: I'm happy to defer to Trustee Stamford here.

[4:04:23] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, thank you.

[4:04:24] Trustee Busheikin: And I will also note that she's also

[4:04:26] Trustee Busheikin: Chair of the Conservancy.

[4:04:29] Trustee Busheikin: And there is already a Liskety person on the board,

[4:04:32] Trustee Busheikin: I gather.

[4:04:32] Trustee Busheikin: So Vice Chair Patrick, go ahead.

[4:04:35] Trustee Busheikin: I

[4:04:35] Trustee Patrick: was just wondering if we could perhaps persuade

[4:04:40] Trustee Patrick: Narissa, is there a chance that we could have a fourth trustee or does that really

[4:04:46] Trustee Patrick: knock things out of the water?

[4:04:48] Voice 22: Well, the real challenge is numbers, particularly through a Zoom format.

[4:04:57] Voice 22: Matt. And I know we've sort of raised this question with the consultants a couple of times,

[4:05:06] Voice 22: and I know that they've been very, very thoughtful in developing their process. So it's certainly

[4:05:10] Voice 22: something we can ask them, but I think there might be a bit of pushback. Also considering

[4:05:18] Voice 22: that we will be able to have a full trustee workshop as well, so there will be an opportunity

[4:05:23] Voice 22: for everyone to participate.

[4:05:25] Voice 22: So I think what I would want to do

[4:05:27] Voice 22: is actually go with the sort of top three

[4:05:30] Voice 22: and if we can have another one,

[4:05:32] Voice 22: see if we can have that fourth.

[4:05:34] Voice 22: And again, it's really about being able

[4:05:38] Voice 22: to have an effective meeting on the Zoom platform.

[4:05:44] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you.

[4:05:46] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, so how about a motion then to,

[4:05:50] Trustee Busheikin: I believe the board would be to appoint Kate Louise Stamford.

[4:05:54] Trustee Busheikin: heard chair luckham um

[4:05:58] Trustee Luckham: maybe uh laura can help me out here i don't know that an appointment

[4:06:03] Trustee Luckham: is something that we're actually looking for here okay because um because of the way that

[4:06:12] Trustee Luckham: committees and select committees are selected or or not appointed or not and so i think the

[4:06:20] Trustee Luckham: idea was to get an expression of interest and then the committee the uh the the funding body

[4:06:26] Trustee Luckham: will take that under consideration rather than it appearing that we're appointing special people to

[4:06:32] Trustee Luckham: be on a special committee. Vice Chair Patrick, did you have anything else to add to that conversation

[4:06:36] Trustee Luckham: this morning? No. Okay. That

[4:06:42] Trustee Busheikin: sounds great. So we have an expression of interest from

[4:06:45] Trustee Busheikin: Kate Louise Stanford and an expression of interest from Trustee Peterson if indeed there's room for

[4:06:51] Trustee Busheikin: for a fourth and we'll leave it at that.

[4:06:54] Trustee Busheikin: And thank you for the discussion.

[4:06:57] Trustee Busheikin: And I look forward to more work on this project.

[4:07:02] Trustee Busheikin: So anything else on 5.2.2?

[4:07:07] Trustee Busheikin: Good, moving on then with the next one is 5.2.3,

[4:07:11] Trustee Busheikin: groundwater mapping strategic plan item number eight.

[4:07:14] Trustee Busheikin: And we have a briefing on this.

[4:07:17] Voice 18: Yeah,

[4:07:17] Trustee Busheikin: turn it over to staff.

[4:07:18] Voice 18: Yeah, and I'll turn it over through the chair to William,

[4:07:21] Voice 18: William, just to take through the high points of the briefing, and we'll assume that you've

[4:07:25] Voice 18: read it, and I'll bring it up on the screen.

[4:07:32] Voice 2: Hi folks, thanks for allowing me to speak to my briefing today.

[4:07:39] Voice 2: This briefing came from a resolution that arise from Regional Planning Committee's review

[4:07:47] Voice 2: you the southern groundwater mapping project the peer review um and then the uh our the regional

[4:07:55] Voice 2: planning committee um was satisfied that the mapping should proceed to denman hornby and

[4:08:01] Voice 2: gabriola which i will be getting a update from the consultants tomorrow on um or sorry on friday

[4:08:10] Voice 2: However, there was an additive to that resolution that staff were requested to prepare a report

[4:08:19] Voice 2: to describe the potential uses of this mapping.

[4:08:22] Voice 2: So this is a briefing to that if the RPC isn't satisfied with the briefing that there can

[4:08:31] Voice 2: be more analysis done and brought forward.

[4:08:33] Voice 2: forward. As Planner Chadwick said that the Galliano Local Trust Committee has signaled

[4:08:44] Voice 2: staff to move on with the project to the implementation phase. So we'll be doing some more deep analysis

[4:08:51] Voice 2: on what that means directly for the Galliano Local Trust Committee. So the briefing just

[4:09:00] Voice 2: lays out the project phases, which is data inventory and the information, groundwater

[4:09:07] Voice 2: recharge potential mapping, and the groundwater availability assessment, which has only been done

[4:09:14] Voice 2: to date on the Southern Gulf Islands, and phase three, which is the planning, groundwater

[4:09:20] Voice 2: sustainability planning, which is the implementation phase. Yeah, so the briefing goes into how

[4:09:29] Voice 2: act for science and groundwater mapping at the local government level applies to

[4:09:34] Voice 2: land use planning and conservation. I guess to take a not so much a personal

[4:09:44] Voice 2: note but a professional note of staff that back in March 2019 the Trust

[4:09:51] Voice 2: Council declared a climate emergency and also put forward the reconciliation

[4:09:58] Voice 2: installation declaration and and both of which have been taken really seriously in both of the

[4:10:05] Voice 2: freshwater sustainability strategy and the groundwater sustainability strategy project

[4:10:11] Voice 2: and I know we're going through a policy statement review but the policy statement is the one that

[4:10:18] Voice 2: we have now and throughout the planning of this project staff really focused on how to address

[4:10:26] Voice 2: some of the commitments the Trust Council has put forward in their policy statement,

[4:10:31] Voice 2: including protection of recharge, which is 3.3.1.

[4:10:36] Voice 2: And also, even though 4.4.6 is at a date asking the provincial government

[4:10:43] Voice 2: to adopt legislation to protect the quality and quantity of water

[4:10:48] Voice 2: in the Islands Trust area, that happened through the Water Sustainability Act

[4:10:54] Voice 2: and the Groundwater Protection Regulation.

[4:10:55] Voice 2: So this project just goes a step further to identifying through POLIS, Ecological Governance of Water Sustainability Project, as well as some other initiatives from the province on a deep dive on the role of local governments in implementation of sustainability of water.

[4:11:18] Voice 2: and um this this project uh addresses that and um and also to to comment on the

[4:11:28] Voice 2: uh informative nature between the groundwater sustainability strategy and the freshwater

[4:11:33] Voice 2: sustainability strategy um and the success of of um retaining econics as as our consultant

[4:11:41] Voice 2: uh i've been working with econics since 2017 on uh through the regional district of denham was

[4:11:48] Voice 2: was Drinking Water Watershed Protection Program,

[4:11:50] Voice 2: same with the Cowichan Valley Regional Districts

[4:11:52] Voice 2: program as well.

[4:11:54] Voice 2: And a lot of their experience and that process

[4:12:00] Voice 2: has informed the Groundwater Sustainability Strategy.

[4:12:03] Voice 2: And so the framework was there to match up

[4:12:08] Voice 2: with a larger regional strategy and that was the approach.

[4:12:13] Voice 2: So just diving down a little bit more

[4:12:15] Voice 2: and then I'll pass it off because I imagine you all read the briefing, that through our land use

[4:12:21] Voice 2: planning service that the groundwater recharge mapping and the availability assessments can be

[4:12:28] Voice 2: used to inform our land use bylaws. It can be used to fix old policies, as we'll be addressing

[4:12:36] Voice 2: on Galliano's elevated groundwater catchment area, development permit area. And ultimately,

[4:12:44] Voice 2: it's going to help inform the planners on current planning applications and indeed help the

[4:12:54] Voice 2: applicants provide us useful data to ensure that an increase in density intensity of groundwater

[4:13:03] Voice 2: water use is sustainable. And ultimately, this project, like one of the primary goals of it is

[4:13:15] Voice 2: to protect the ecosystems, protect the existing user, and ensure that any new use doesn't impact

[4:13:23] Voice 2: those uses and the ecosystem. So I hope that gives us the summary of the briefing. I'm

[4:13:32] Voice 2: open to questions if you have them. If we just look at next steps it's to provide a staff report

[4:13:38] Voice 2: on the outcomes from the groundwater sustainability strategy from this fiscal it's about to end,

[4:13:44] Voice 2: provide a project charter if the budget gets passed for this work to continue on

[4:13:51] Voice 2: which would involve Howe Sound and Thetis and Laskiti and perhaps undertake some groundwater

[4:14:02] Voice 2: availability studies on Denman and Hornby and Gabriola depending on how that work

[4:14:10] Voice 2: flushes out and yeah and also provide more updates on the implementation phases from the local trust

[4:14:17] Voice 2: committees as they advance that work so like i said we have galliano that is advancing phase

[4:14:23] Voice 2: three and north pender is going to be considering it at their next meeting so i'll leave it at that

[4:14:29] Voice 2: thanks thank

[4:14:31] Trustee Busheikin: you thank you very much william um for your work on this and for your report

[4:14:37] Trustee Busheikin: uh the floor is open for questions or comments i see vice chair patrick and

[4:14:43] Trustee Patrick: my cat um

[4:14:45] Trustee Patrick: He has a strong opinion. He likes water.

[4:14:49] Trustee Patrick: My only comment on like page 46 of the report,

[4:14:52] Trustee Patrick: we kind of go from the mapping to the local trust committees that choose to

[4:14:58] Trustee Patrick: proceed.

[4:14:59] Trustee Patrick: I think we're missing an opportunity to emphasize that some of the work that

[4:15:05] Trustee Patrick: can be done is reproducible and shareable and,

[4:15:08] Trustee Patrick: and that we do have a climate emergency and we all have water issues.

[4:15:15] Trustee Patrick: And so I think there needs to be some element put on that or be able to say, you know, I look at Saturna and I think, hmm, saltwater intrusion, you know, there's urgency to work on that issue and that the work that they would create would be beneficial to any other island that's experiencing saltwater intrusion.

[4:15:35] Trustee Patrick: So that's the only concern I have is that missing that opportunity to create those shareable tools.

[4:15:45] Trustee Patrick: Okay, go ahead.

[4:15:46] Trustee Busheikin: Yeah, William.

[4:15:47] Voice 2: Yeah, that's a great point, Trustee Patrick,

[4:15:52] Voice 2: considering saltwater intrusion on Saturna.

[4:15:56] Voice 2: Indeed, that's part of phase three.

[4:15:59] Voice 2: I didn't put out the whole layout of the phases

[4:16:02] Voice 2: because I've done that for you in the past,

[4:16:04] Voice 2: or not for you, but for the Regional Planning Committee.

[4:16:07] Voice 2: And saltwater intrusion mapping is part of that.

[4:16:09] Voice 2: And indeed, I'm on a provincial project right now

[4:16:12] Voice 2: where we're getting close to finalizing those maps.

[4:16:16] Voice 2: I think that the opportunity lies with with the top priorities from the LTC's

[4:16:23] Voice 2: undertaking areas of concern that they have identified so saltwater intrusion

[4:16:30] Voice 2: is one of them on Saturna and and there are the same concerns elsewhere however

[4:16:37] Voice 2: like it's possible that Laskete doesn't need to take on saltwater intrusion as

[4:16:44] Voice 2: their top priority. So it's almost like, for lack of a better term, a pilot to solve that issue.

[4:16:54] Voice 2: Looking at aquifer recharge protection on Galliano is a significant consideration,

[4:17:04] Voice 2: where on Salt Spring Island we have a top priority project right now looking at proof of water

[4:17:11] Voice 2: regulation for subdivision um so i i think i'll i'll pass it over to narissa now because i i

[4:17:21] Voice 2: believe this is where the freshwater sustainability strategy um will will help engage um those that

[4:17:30] Voice 2: that that regional opportunity that you're discussing where if i'll just remind the

[4:17:36] Voice 2: the regional planning committee where the groundwater sustainability strategy started

[4:17:40] Voice 2: was at top priority for five LTCs in the southern Gulf Islands and so they own that part of the

[4:17:48] Voice 2: project still and and they're advancing that work and I it's it's an interesting model to do it that

[4:17:55] Voice 2: way because I think looking at the drinking water and watershed protection projects for

[4:18:00] Voice 2: Liskiti and Hornby as implementation projects under the freshwater sustainability strategy

[4:18:06] Voice 2: it's it's looking like it's the same model which is exciting so there's some harmonies there for

[4:18:13] Voice 2: opportunity um but i i agree with you we can't like i i'm only one person and narissa is swamped

[4:18:20] Voice 2: already and so we can't continuously just redo these act for protection projects on on on every

[4:18:27] Voice 2: island there there needs to be synergy and and harmonization i think that opportunity exists

[4:18:33] Voice 2: exists um so i'll just maybe share maybe pass it to narissa for a comment yes

[4:18:41] Trustee Busheikin: please um

[4:18:42] Voice 22: yeah so i

[4:18:43] Voice 22: think you know one of the things that i think william sort of in the way that i would characterize

[4:18:48] Voice 22: it is as william said we are um by focusing on on specific things on on on different islands

[4:18:57] Voice 22: they are essentially can be seen as as pilot projects and what we have working towards our

[4:19:04] Voice 22: advantage is we've got a I mean it's like we're in in this environment where so many things are

[4:19:12] Voice 22: coming together now with the LPS review and we've got the regional planning team and the regional

[4:19:18] Voice 22: planning team working on essentially model bylaws but really focusing on on actual processes

[4:19:25] Voice 22: processes with LTCs to do these pilots so that we can really understand on the ground

[4:19:32] Voice 22: what some of the opportunities and challenges are and ultimately learn, you know, what can be

[4:19:39] Voice 22: replicated on other islands. And the freshwater sustainability strategy development,

[4:19:48] Voice 22: it's all part of this whole process that we are engaging in. And I mean, it also includes

[4:19:53] Voice 22: It also includes the policy statement review, like an awareness of.

[4:20:00] Voice 22: So we've got all these different elements working together to ultimately inform how we move forward more efficiently from a regional perspective.

[4:20:11] Voice 22: And I guess what's the advantage is that, you know, I happen to be working on the implementation piece with the groundwater sustainability strategy and connected to the regional planning team as well as the freshwater sustainability stream team.

[4:20:31] Voice 22: team. And there is a discussion, there is a continued sort of discussion about integration

[4:20:38] Voice 22: and about this regional process. So I think we are going to find, and it will be over time,

[4:20:47] Voice 22: that we gain some real efficiencies by moving forward in the way that we are.

[4:20:55] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you. Laura,

[4:21:00] Trustee Patrick: did you want to comment some more?

[4:21:01] Trustee Patrick: Just a brief follow up. I hear you and you're saying exactly the right things. I'm just saying that when I read this fourth bullet on page 46 under phase three, it doesn't say that. And I think just making sure that we leave that open so that we don't, you know, that we are trying to share, you know, I understand it's a learning experience and things evolve as we learn.

[4:21:22] Trustee Patrick: But I think having that ultimate goal that, you know, we're all eager to work on this issue. So I think that's just important to mention.

[4:21:32] Trustee Busheikin: okay thanks any other comments questions okay not seeing any um i want to thank staff for all

[4:21:47] Trustee Busheikin: the work and thank you william for the report that really helped contextualize all this work

[4:21:52] Trustee Busheikin: um and it really is a very interesting time to see all of this going on and interweaving and

[4:21:58] Trustee Busheikin: coming together and flowing together uh and i'm excited to be part of it yeah thank you chair

[4:22:07] Trustee Busheikin: If

[4:22:07] Voice 2: I were to make one last point that, and perhaps this relates to Trustee Patrick's point, that truly like the implementation of this work needs to be embraced by the community, which is the stewards of the community is the local trust committee.

[4:22:29] Voice 2: I mean, if we want to inform the OCP and inform the land use bylaws and have community buy-in to act for protection, like that's kind of where it starts.

[4:22:41] Voice 2: And indeed, that's where this project started with grassroots education.

[4:22:47] Voice 2: education. And I'm really encouraged by the Galleon Local Trust Committee and the Liskiti

[4:22:54] Voice 2: Local Trust Committee and the Hornby Local Trust Committee and the South Spring Island

[4:22:58] Voice 2: Local Trust Committee that have retained an element of water sustainability on their top

[4:23:03] Voice 2: priority for my entire time here, years. And so I'm constantly trying to go through that

[4:23:15] Voice 2: learning experience to find that harmony to, to, to, to, to share that information, uh, like across

[4:23:22] Voice 2: the trust. And, and that's why I'm so encouraged by the Freshwater Sustainability Strategy.

[4:23:27] Voice 2: Um, equally encouraged to go and just look at a DPA and see if we can solve the issues with it.

[4:23:33] Voice 2: So, um, yeah, I, it, this is really great. I mean, there's so many streams that are coming

[4:23:39] Voice 2: together here and we have some really great synergy and funding that's coming together and,

[4:23:44] Voice 2: And it's a really great watershed moment.

[4:23:46] Voice 2: It's a moment in time for the organization.

[4:23:49] Voice 2: So I appreciate the support

[4:23:50] Voice 2: from the Regional Planning Committee.

[4:23:53] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you.

[4:23:54] Trustee Busheikin: Planner Chadwick.

[4:23:56] Voice 22: I'll just add for information.

[4:23:58] Voice 22: I was talking to Jillian the other day

[4:24:00] Voice 22: and she was putting together the responses

[4:24:02] Voice 22: from the public on a recent survey

[4:24:05] Voice 22: of what's of most interest in the work we're doing

[4:24:10] Voice 22: and the freshwater sustainability strategy

[4:24:12] Voice 22: in the in the in the groundwater work um were were at the very top of of their interests by

[4:24:19] Trustee Busheikin: by

[4:24:19] Voice 22: a lot so

[4:24:20] Trustee Busheikin: great wonderful that's good to know thanks um uh trustee patrick i see your hand up

[4:24:30] Trustee Busheikin: is that uh it's a what i call a ghost hand um okay uh well thank you very much and uh we will

[4:24:38] Trustee Busheikin: move on we're not uh we're not done um there's another item here is everyone okay does anyone

[4:24:45] Trustee Busheikin: want a five minute bio break just wave a physical hand or use a voice uh yes i'm seeing us as long

[4:24:54] Trustee Busheikin: as one person wants it i think we should do it so let's take five minutes and we'll be back at 25

[4:24:59] Trustee Busheikin: to three um i

[4:25:01] Trustee Busheikin: just want to let everyone

[4:25:02] Trustee Stamford: know i have to leave to to do pick up my daughter so um

[4:25:07] Trustee Stamford: I will, any comments I have about the next item, I will send to Chair Buschenkin and Director Morales.

[4:25:15] Trustee Stamford: Thank you.

[4:25:17] Trustee Busheikin: Would you like us to read them out or, you know, summarize them to the group in the discussion?

[4:25:27] Trustee Stamford: I won't have them ready at that point. I will send them later to you.

[4:25:30] Trustee Busheikin: Okay. Okay. It's an ongoing discussion. It's not going to end. And thank you for your participation today.

[4:25:37] Trustee Busheikin: day. Okay, see everyone in five minutes.

[4:32:18] Voice 12: Hi everybody, David here. We seem to have lost our chair. It's

[4:32:26] Voice 12: not showing up on here. Not sure

[4:32:28] Voice 14: there's been a power failure or what. Can

[4:32:38] Trustee Patrick: someone try calling her?

[4:32:40] Voice 12: Yeah, I'll try and give her a

[4:32:42] Voice 12: call. Maybe take a

[4:32:45] Voice 14: few more minutes. In

[4:32:57] Voice 13: the past, we had one trustee.

[4:33:00] Voice 13: um i forgot that's right anyway we've used uh trustee peterson as a backup chair in the event

[4:33:11] Voice 13: that uh trustee pushakin lost uh connections that may be another option well

[4:33:19] Trustee Luckham: who's the actual vice

[4:33:20] Trustee Luckham: chair

[4:33:22] Voice 13: mr

[4:33:23] Trustee Luckham: maude yeah yeah

[4:33:26] Voice 13: and he wasn't there the last time and then we uh appointed trustee

[4:33:31] Voice 13: Peterson as a backup I don't know if that carries forward or not but

[4:33:38] Voice 21: the committee

[4:33:40] Trustee Luckham: I think the

[4:33:41] Trustee Luckham: the committee

[4:33:44] Voice 21: can make a decision um and you may not you may want to wait for director Marler to

[4:33:50] Voice 21: return yeah

[4:33:55] Trustee Luckham: I think that the um director or a designate is the one that has to formally um call

[4:34:04] Trustee Luckham: for a appointment a voter appointment of a chair but let's hope he finds Laura

[4:34:10] Trustee Luckham: Laura.

[4:34:11] Voice 4: Hi, this is Laura. Can you hear me?

[4:34:16] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, you look like a telephone. I

[4:34:21] Voice 4: am a telephone.

[4:34:22] Voice 4: David Marlowe is calling me now and he doesn't need to. So I'm not going to take his call.

[4:34:28] Voice 4: I'm having a problem with Zoom. It's giving me, it kicked me out and it's giving me an error

[4:34:33] Voice 4: message that there's some kind of firewall and it can't get past it. And I'll have to start that

[4:34:39] Voice 4: that out but for now I'll need to be on the phone. That makes it a little bit hard to chair

[4:34:46] Voice 4: so could I designate an alternate chair? I

[4:34:55] Voice 6: think Tim is usually the alternate. Pardon?

[4:35:00] Voice 18: It's David here I would say yes I've Laurie just want to designate somebody to be the chair that'd

[4:35:06] Voice 18: be fine for the rest of the meeting.

[4:35:08] Voice 4: I know Peterson has done it in the past so Trustee

[4:35:11] Voice 4: Dusty Peterson, can you take that on?

[4:35:16] Voice 24: Sure.

[4:35:17] Voice 24: So I believe we had finished off 5.2.3.

[4:35:25] Voice 24: We heard from Director Marler about 5.2.4 earlier.

[4:35:30] Voice 24: So that would move us down to a 6.1 local planning service delivery renewal verbal update.

[4:35:38] Voice 24: I believe that's correct.

[4:35:39] Voice 24: And I think that would be David Marler.

[4:35:42] Voice 18: Yeah, that is correct.

[4:35:44] Voice 18: Thank you.

[4:35:45] Voice 18: Yes. So through the acting chair, thank you. As a late item, the briefing was sent out

[4:35:53] Voice 18: to the committee. So I just brought this up because this is probably an appropriate place

[4:35:58] Voice 18: to have it. So with the chair's permission, I'd just like to talk about this briefing first.

[4:36:06] Voice 18: Yeah, please go ahead. Thank you. Okay. So this status report was provided to the executive

[4:36:12] Voice 18: committee and it just takes you through a little bit of where we're at. So it gives you a little

[4:36:18] Voice 18: bit of the background. So on this first page, the items highlighted in bold in yellow are the three

[4:36:25] Voice 18: items that this briefing actually focuses on, which is the plan team transition, developing

[4:36:31] Voice 18: policies on LTC projects and resource allocation, and developing OCP and LUB review strategy criteria.

[4:36:39] Voice 18: criteria. So the planning team transition very quickly. We now have a regional planning

[4:36:47] Voice 18: team and we have the local planning teams and we're still working out how we allocate

[4:36:53] Voice 18: the actual projects and this to me is the toughest thing to do is how do we provide

[4:37:00] Voice 18: that you know what is the criteria and what do we use to say we will allocate resources

[4:37:08] Voice 18: sources here, but we won't allocate them over here this year. So this just shows you on this

[4:37:14] Voice 18: page here what we started off with. And these are just categorized. They're intended to

[4:37:20] Voice 18: address the strategic plan generally, be things that are relatively regional, but also have to

[4:37:27] Voice 18: recognize that the plan is coming over, had projects underway, and we can't just not do

[4:37:33] Voice 18: those projects so those projects have some of these have just come over with the planners or

[4:37:39] Voice 18: have been reassigned to make sure that they get finished so these are the ones that we're

[4:37:43] Voice 18: currently working on so part of the support for this whole thing is you know we can obviously

[4:37:51] Voice 18: keep working as staff in the the regional team and the local teams and we can figure out how best to

[4:38:00] Voice 18: to use our time. But the reality is we have 13 local trust committees and each of them

[4:38:06] Voice 18: have up to three and some maybe more top priorities that they would like to be working on. And

[4:38:14] Voice 18: each of them has a list of projects. And when you add those up, there's 102 projects in

[4:38:19] Voice 18: the queue. Heather did some calculations looking at how long these projects would take and

[4:38:26] Voice 18: and figured that we're talking like something like,

[4:38:28] Voice 18: I can't remember what it was,

[4:38:30] Voice 18: eight or nine years or something like that

[4:38:32] Voice 18: to get through them or 80 years.

[4:38:34] Voice 18: It's a lot of time.

[4:38:36] Voice 18: So it would be helpful if council had a policy

[4:38:42] Voice 18: that provided some guidance on how to allocate that

[4:38:47] Voice 18: because I think this is political.

[4:38:49] Voice 18: The political piece is,

[4:38:51] Voice 18: do we want a system of just looking at where the need is

[4:38:56] Voice 18: based on the object of the trust and then staff would say okay a b and c those are the top

[4:39:02] Voice 18: priorities that should be as a regional planning team or does it have to be a geopolitical

[4:39:10] Voice 18: consideration such as um you know a third of the resources always go to the north a third always

[4:39:17] Voice 18: go to salt spring a third always go to the south or is it better you know so what is that mix is

[4:39:23] Voice 18: what we're looking for and then within that what is the criteria to get that 102 down to something

[4:39:30] Voice 18: more manageable for example so it may be worthwhile at this committee at the next meeting maybe to set

[4:39:38] Voice 18: half of the meeting aside for a discussion around this kind of thing around the um the resource

[4:39:46] Voice 18: resourceability, things like that. And part of this too is looking at how do we develop

[4:39:54] Voice 18: the standardized LCPs and standardized land use bylaws. We are working on that and we would be

[4:40:02] Voice 18: able to come to you with some recommendations. But again, that would be ideal to have that as

[4:40:07] Voice 18: a policy. So kind of like a model fee bylaw, it would be a model land use bylaw, model LCP

[4:40:14] Voice 18: that we would then use as a basis for any updates to a local trust committee's LCP

[4:40:21] Voice 18: with the idea of getting as much standardization as possible between the trust committees,

[4:40:26] Voice 18: recognizing that there's going to be local issues that, you know,

[4:40:31] Voice 18: you might have to tweak things to make it fit the community better.

[4:40:34] Voice 18: But generally, we start with that basis that this is the model.

[4:40:39] Voice 18: and model meaning not just the format like how the documents laid out but also some language

[4:40:47] Voice 18: for things like development permits things like setbacks from the sea or how we deal with shoreline

[4:40:54] Voice 18: those kinds of things so the model bylaw work that the regional planning committee does

[4:41:01] Voice 18: would form part of the standard bylaw as they're adopted they could be added to it on an ongoing

[4:41:06] Voice 18: basis to keep it up to date. So the long-term vision is that we have this policy with standard

[4:41:15] Voice 18: bylaws attached to it that are the starting point. And part of this too is also a standardized

[4:41:20] Voice 18: approach to project management. What we've identified here on this page, page 80,

[4:41:28] Voice 18: is uh this is the idea of the um document i've got on the screen here is um like minor projects

[4:41:38] Voice 18: major projects and extraordinary projects and then some definition around them in in council

[4:41:45] Voice 18: policy and then an indication of what would what they would entail and how they would be allocated

[4:41:51] Voice 18: So the example is minor would be defined as probably using, you know, in-house planning staff with, you know, a few dollars required to support it.

[4:42:03] Voice 18: So it could be housekeeping amendments or a minor amendment to a land use bylaw or a particular issue that's just come up and could be dealt with fairly quickly and would take, you know, three to six months to deal with.

[4:42:16] Voice 18: and that would be done by the local planning team and the direction of the local trust committee

[4:42:21] Voice 18: the other is the major projects and these are the substantive ones that maybe a regional or

[4:42:29] Voice 18: it's big enough that it could have implications region-wide or something like that could be a

[4:42:35] Voice 18: year or multiple years and these would require a project charter and a dedicated budget you know

[4:42:42] Voice 18: a line item in council's budget to support it for example and could be undertaken in-house mostly

[4:42:50] Voice 18: with maybe some consultant support in areas which don't have the expertise in-house

[4:42:56] Voice 18: and it would follow a standardized process so this could be an LCP review where it follows

[4:43:04] Voice 18: a standardized process maybe it's like a five phase process and the standardized process

[4:43:10] Voice 18: allows for six months of public consultation or something like that and the whole process takes

[4:43:16] Voice 18: 18 months to two years. The extraordinary ones would be things that fall outside that so maybe

[4:43:24] Voice 18: a local trust committee would like a year of public consultation or more in-depth consultation

[4:43:29] Voice 18: or do something that doesn't follow the standard process then that would be considered extraordinary

[4:43:36] Voice 18: ordinary and that would largely be undertaken by consultants and again would require an approved

[4:43:42] Voice 18: budget for it so these are just concepts right now and it would need to be fleshed out more

[4:43:48] Voice 18: through policy which again happy to write and bring it to the committee for some thoughts and

[4:43:55] Voice 18: ideas project management this is things that we're doing right now but trying to look at how we can

[4:44:05] Voice 18: in how is project managed better and heather car has been doing a lot of work on this and

[4:44:10] Voice 18: really happy to have her doing that the um you know one of the thinkings is maybe we can take the

[4:44:18] Voice 18: the projects of the trust committees and present them differently so instead of each trust committee

[4:44:23] Voice 18: having its own list of projects and they kind of just um sit there by themselves there instead we

[4:44:31] Voice 18: we have the ability to print it out in a different way that probably categorizes them.

[4:44:35] Voice 18: So we can see all of the housing related ones, all of the shoreline related ones.

[4:44:41] Voice 18: And then from that, we can probably create a single project that deals with more than one local trust committee project at the same time.

[4:44:48] Voice 18: Obviously, each local trust committee would have to buy in.

[4:44:50] Voice 18: So a little bit about like the freshwater groundwater work that William did with the five southern islands.

[4:44:55] Voice 18: That's an example of different interested local trust committees doing a similar project

[4:45:02] Voice 18: and then rolling it out uniquely to their islands, but still using the standard approach

[4:45:08] Voice 18: to doing it.

[4:45:11] Voice 18: Yeah, so the suggestion was some kind of discussion.

[4:45:15] Voice 18: This is kind of the crucial thing here, is where it says generally to develop appropriate

[4:45:22] Voice 18: appropriate policy staff is looking for advice on criteria to use when recommending which projects

[4:45:28] Voice 18: should proceed, criteria to use when recommending extraordinary projects, number of projects that

[4:45:33] Voice 18: each local trust committee can expect to have at a time, process for approval of projects and the

[4:45:38] Voice 18: role of each of the committees and consideration of development of major and extraordinary projects

[4:45:44] Voice 18: for the term at the beginning of the term. So ideally through council policy I think it would

[4:45:52] Voice 18: would be great at the beginning of each term so you know maybe in January after the election

[4:45:58] Voice 18: that trust committees sit down and they look at what they would like to achieve over the next four

[4:46:03] Voice 18: years and what are the major projects that would support that and then we can actually plan them

[4:46:09] Voice 18: and we can slot them in and indicate where they're going to fit in that four-year period and how they

[4:46:14] Voice 18: work together it doesn't stop the local trust committee from doing the smaller things that

[4:46:19] Voice 18: come up but this does provide those kind of like the big stones get them in first and then fill

[4:46:24] Voice 18: around that right so that's something to think about too so um the executive committee has

[4:46:31] Voice 18: actually asked us to come back with a more nuanced um thing around you know the implications of

[4:46:40] Voice 18: restricting local trust committees to one project and we'll be doing that for the executive but

[4:46:47] Voice 18: but I think it would be useful to have discussion

[4:46:50] Voice 18: around these items.

[4:46:51] Voice 18: And I think maybe this committee might be an opportunity

[4:46:53] Voice 18: to do that.

[4:46:55] Voice 18: Anyway, I'll leave it at that.

[4:46:57] Voice 18: That's really the update

[4:46:59] Voice 18: on the local plan services delivery renewal.

[4:47:03] Voice 18: It's kind of where we're at right now,

[4:47:05] Voice 18: but maybe some discussion around how you'd like

[4:47:09] Voice 18: to be involved in this issue

[4:47:12] Voice 18: and I'll pass it back to the chair.

[4:47:14] Voice 18: Thank

[4:47:18] Voice 24: you, Director Marler. And so, indeed, like, seems like a good time for questions. And just knowing that Cherub is shaken is by phone and also just making sure we still have quorum. I'm just going to ask Laura to say, hi, you're still here.

[4:47:37] Voice 9: Yes, I am.

[4:47:39] Voice 24: Okay, great. And do you have any questions on this before I open the floor to everyone else who I can see their hands?

[4:47:49] Voice 4: Thanks. Well, I have a suggestion, although I realize it just might not be feasible. And I guess in a way it's a question, but I don't need the answer. Now, there's attachment one, which is a great attachment. That's the status of active local trust committee projects.

[4:48:07] Voice 4: projects and in the last column it has estimated project duration which is awfully interesting

[4:48:12] Voice 4: but what would be helpful if it's possible is to know is that from now into the future or is that

[4:48:20] Voice 4: it's been going on for five years and there's two more years and yeah and

[4:48:25] Voice 4: as you can tell i'm a

[4:48:27] Voice 4: little hesitant to you know kind of make demands because i realize that could be just more work to

[4:48:31] Voice 4: fill in but like when i see the gabriola housing options impacts review project phase two is going

[4:48:37] Voice 4: going to be 12 years so does that mean it's going to be done in 2033 or is it a few years into it

[4:48:44] Voice 4: same with the denman farm plan implementation which i know has been ongoing for a number of

[4:48:48] Voice 4: years and i'm like oh is it going to be seven more years so that could just be a little confusing

[4:48:53] Voice 4: for people um and otherwise i mean i have as you know director muller because i talked to you about

[4:49:01] Voice 4: but many comments on this and concerns

[4:49:04] Voice 4: and would just like to see things clarified.

[4:49:08] Voice 4: I think we do need policy.

[4:49:12] Voice 4: We do need an agreed upon way of allocating resources

[4:49:15] Voice 4: and very much I support regional approaches

[4:49:21] Voice 4: and I'm hoping that that's what the regional team is doing

[4:49:27] Voice 4: with 13 local trust committees and three top priorities.

[4:49:30] Voice 4: I think it's possible to, you know, pretty quickly look at them all and see where the synergies could be.

[4:49:35] Voice 4: And then I guess my main question is, how are the current or how were the current choices for the regional planning team made?

[4:49:46] Voice 18: So on page

[4:49:47] Voice 4: 79, there's a list of them. And how was that decided?

[4:49:51] Voice 18: Yeah. So the estimated project duration is from the start date of the project.

[4:49:58] Voice 18: So if something has been on hold,

[4:50:00] Voice 18: then that will extend the time there.

[4:50:02] Voice 18: So that's just, yes, it's existing

[4:50:05] Voice 18: plus what the estimated is to complete it.

[4:50:07] Voice 18: I think more important is the percent completed

[4:50:10] Voice 18: down the center column there.

[4:50:13] Voice 18: Gives you an idea

[4:50:13] Voice 18: of where they're at.

[4:50:14] Voice 18: And thank you, I've forgotten about these tables.

[4:50:17] Voice 18: Appendix two also, I think is interesting.

[4:50:20] Voice 18: This is showing all the completed

[4:50:22] Voice 18: local trust committee projects in the last two terms.

[4:50:25] Voice 18: So since 2014.

[4:50:26] Voice 18: 14. So that's really just indicates that you do get things done. And then final list at the bottom

[4:50:33] Voice 18: projects that were put on hold or cancelled by local trust committees. And that's that list

[4:50:38] Voice 18: right there. And again, that's in the last two terms. With respect to the projects that are

[4:50:45] Voice 18: currently on the list, I think you might have missed me say that that was based partly on what

[4:50:51] Voice 18: what the team members are working on

[4:50:55] Voice 18: or the team was working on that for the most part

[4:51:00] Voice 18: would fit the criteria of being supportive

[4:51:03] Voice 18: of strategic plan or climate change or reconciliation.

[4:51:07] Voice 18: So one of the major areas or just a big enough project

[4:51:11] Voice 18: that it made sense for the team to take it on.

[4:51:15] Voice 18: Their added part is transition.

[4:51:17] Voice 18: That is they recognize that those staff

[4:51:20] Voice 18: can't just be taken away from what they're doing and give another work so we had to make sure

[4:51:24] Voice 18: there's some continuity for work that already started so it's a bit of a guess a bit of a

[4:51:29] Voice 18: this just seems to work for the staff that we've been selected okay

[4:51:36] Voice 4: thanks thank

[4:51:40] Voice 24: you for the

[4:51:41] Voice 24: question laura and thank you director murdler um and i'm just going to point out that we're

[4:51:47] Voice 24: getting quite close to three o'clock but of course uh any further questions for the director are of

[4:51:55] Voice 24: of course welcome um i'm looking at the hands and i'm looking at the screen i'm not seeing anyone

[4:52:03] Voice 24: waving or putting a hand up at this time oh i see ah vice chair patrick why don't you go ahead

[4:52:10] Voice 24: and you're muted all

[4:52:20] Trustee Patrick: right i said i'm the chatty one um thank you for uh the staff report we did

[4:52:24] Trustee Patrick: have an extensive conversation at at the executive committee and i won't repeat everything that

[4:52:29] Trustee Patrick: that happened there, but quite accidentally,

[4:52:33] Trustee Patrick: I kind of came upon, when we were about to,

[4:52:36] Trustee Patrick: we were into our second day of debating the project charter

[4:52:38] Trustee Patrick: for the housing project on Salt Spring,

[4:52:41] Trustee Patrick: I had woke up at 6 a.m. in the morning with the idea of,

[4:52:45] Trustee Patrick: ah, we need to talk about some principles here first.

[4:52:49] Trustee Patrick: And so we backed up and had that political conversation

[4:52:53] Trustee Patrick: of just the three trustees having a conversation

[4:52:56] Trustee Patrick: about what were we really trying to do with this project?

[4:52:59] Trustee Patrick: what were the principles um that we were trying to achieve and we worked through a set of principles

[4:53:05] Trustee Patrick: and it was it was very liberating i can it really helped us set the guard rails of what we were

[4:53:12] Trustee Patrick: trying to say we talked we you know we talked about how we wanted to learn from you know what's

[4:53:17] Trustee Patrick: what's maine doing with their um uh residential floor area that's interesting we're you know we

[4:53:22] Trustee Patrick: We want to be collecting and knowing what everyone's doing and all of that.

[4:53:27] Trustee Patrick: But I brought that to North Pender when we had the conversation on the groundwater one.

[4:53:34] Trustee Patrick: So we had a political, and also that dealt with what was the outcome?

[4:53:38] Trustee Patrick: What was the deliverable from this project?

[4:53:43] Trustee Patrick: What were we going to get in our hands?

[4:53:44] Trustee Patrick: And it was really good because, I mean, from North Pender, it started, we had apples and oranges.

[4:53:48] Trustee Patrick: What Deb and Ben wanted was very different.

[4:53:50] Trustee Patrick: and it we were able to say okay we're going to carry on this conversation at the next meeting

[4:53:55] Trustee Patrick: see if we can narrow this down and get you know agreement on what we want to see from this project

[4:53:59] Trustee Patrick: so i just i think that when you look at the criteria that you're trying to develop part

[4:54:03] Trustee Patrick: of that is sort of the pre-conversation to that of you know the what the why and uh you know how

[4:54:09] Trustee Patrick: does this fit into what others are doing or things a set of questions that help prompt those

[4:54:14] Trustee Patrick: those conversations to narrow the scope of the work because that's you know I've seen as being

[4:54:21] Trustee Patrick: chair in some of the committees where we start these projects and they kind of go this way for

[4:54:25] Trustee Patrick: a while and bump they hit a sideline then they change your mind and they go this way and then

[4:54:29] Trustee Patrick: they you know we we kind of slalom through the project and it just adds more time and it adds

[4:54:35] Trustee Patrick: confusion because then you go oh who's delaying the project you know and you start blaming someone

[4:54:40] Trustee Patrick: and it's like well we weren't clear in the beginning that was the problem so anyway i called

[4:54:47] Trustee Patrick: it my aha moment thank

[4:54:55] Voice 24: you trustee patrick and uh does anyone else have any more questions or

[4:54:59] Voice 24: comments before we move on uh trustee langrose yeah

[4:55:07] Voice 13: just uh i know when i saw this report and

[4:55:10] Voice 13: then i saw the housing option impact review project duration timeline 12 years it was a bit

[4:55:17] Voice 13: of a shocker because when we look at our project charter it's talking about 2022 and obviously

[4:55:23] Voice 13: what's built into our charter is not just you know this is the second phase the original one started

[4:55:29] Voice 13: in the last term and it was completed in the last term and then we were carrying on with the the

[4:55:36] Voice 13: rest of the project charter it's obvious that it's a multi-phase multi-year project and probably

[4:55:43] Voice 13: probably larger than we had actually realized,

[4:55:46] Voice 13: because we're doing a consultation right now.

[4:55:50] Voice 13: It's a three-step consultation of two weeks each time

[4:55:54] Voice 13: by this informal group that's associated

[4:55:58] Voice 13: or connected to the Housing Advisory Planning Commission.

[4:56:01] Voice 13: And they're thinking it's next year, 2022, it'll be done.

[4:56:08] Voice 13: Well, it's a lot bigger.

[4:56:10] Voice 13: So it really gets back to thinking about what does the project charter actually say?

[4:56:17] Voice 13: You know, what is it actually doing?

[4:56:19] Voice 13: What is it anticipating?

[4:56:20] Voice 13: And I think we were sort of naive thinking it would be a couple years of work, but it's

[4:56:26] Voice 13: actually a lot more.

[4:56:27] Voice 13: So I think we need to relook at that project charter and consider what we have put into

[4:56:33] Voice 13: it and what is it actually and clarify what we're intending to achieve.

[4:56:38] Voice 13: achieve so and I open her and I thank regional planning manager Cower for her and I'm assuming

[4:56:46] Voice 13: she came up with that estimate of 12 years I know she's said in the past it's a multi-year project

[4:56:52] Voice 13: but you know we've got this project charter now version five it doesn't say phase two of five

[4:57:02] Voice 13: or whatever so it's a lack of clarity and understanding I think on our part as to what

[4:57:08] Voice 13: we'd actually created when we started in the last term so good information and

[4:57:20] Voice 18: if I may through chair

[4:57:21] Voice 18: David

[4:57:21] Voice 24: thank

[4:57:22] Voice 18: you yeah you just reminded me there thank you uh trustee uh the um planning managers

[4:57:29] Voice 18: and myself as part of this renewal we're also having or revisiting the project charters and how

[4:57:35] Voice 18: staff are using them and presenting them to the local trust committees. Partly Trustee Patrick's

[4:57:44] Voice 18: thoughts on this have been kind of what's caused us to want to have a look at that.

[4:57:49] Voice 18: But one thing we want to make sure is clear that the local trust committee

[4:57:54] Voice 18: is the owner of the scope and the timeline and the budget. So we want to make sure that that's

[4:58:00] Voice 18: correct and that we make sure that the trust committees are understand it can have the

[4:58:05] Voice 18: discussion around that and make changes you don't have to just accept it because that's what staff

[4:58:10] Voice 18: have presented and the other thing that it's in but not clear is the deliverables so I think we

[4:58:18] Voice 18: want to tweak the project charter to have very clear deliverables and again that's something

[4:58:23] Voice 18: the local trust committee would then take ownership of and I think the idea and the reason we brought

[4:58:29] Voice 18: our project chart is in and this is over 10 years ago now is to make sure that the staff are doing

[4:58:35] Voice 18: the work that the local trust committee has actually asked for because resolutions are

[4:58:40] Voice 18: sometimes not detailed enough and our interpretation of it might be different to the intention

[4:58:45] Voice 18: so by bringing a project charter back it's saying this is how staff interpreted your resolution to

[4:58:51] Voice 18: ask us to do something did we get it right and if we didn't tell us how to change it and then by

[4:58:57] Voice 18: resolution adopt that and then we'll do that work so that's what they're intended to do and it also

[4:59:03] Voice 18: helps us to keep it on scope because then and this happens if a trustee or a trust committee wants us

[4:59:10] Voice 18: to do something that's not in scope then we can ask that trust committee well if you want us to

[4:59:16] Voice 18: do that this is the implication so if you're changing the scope then the timeline might

[4:59:22] Voice 18: change or the budget might change so it just keeps everybody in clear as to where we're at with the

[4:59:29] Voice 18: project yeah

[4:59:31] Voice 13: it gets back to also to these impromptu motions that add things to things

[4:59:37] Voice 13: without a full discussion and exploration by whoever is putting it forward and then a response

[4:59:44] Voice 13: from staff so yeah a

[4:59:46] Voice 13: learning experience on that one yeah

[4:59:48] Voice 18: and that used to happen before project

[4:59:49] Voice 18: charters we start a project and at the end of it it was nothing like the start and it took 10 times

[4:59:55] Voice 18: longer

[5:00:00] Voice 18: okay um so through the chair i'm i'm good with this unless there's any more discussion

[5:00:04] Voice 18: and uh i'm you know unless there's an objection i would suggest i could work with the chair to

[5:00:11] Voice 18: figure out a session at the next meeting to have a bit more detailed discussion

[5:00:15] Voice 18: around some of the issues raised in this um in this briefing uh

[5:00:22] Voice 24: okay thank you director marler

[5:00:24] Voice 24: and um uh before we uh move on i just want to check in with uh chair beshaken are you still there

[5:00:33] Voice 24: uh

[5:00:34] Voice 4: yes i'm still here um and yeah um this all sounds like we've had a bit of a discussion we

[5:00:41] Voice 4: know what's going on and i believe this that ec is um going to be considering this again at their

[5:00:46] Voice 4: next meeting like in terms of what they're going to set up for uh council and i have uh i will

[5:00:54] Voice 4: attend that meeting to observe or represent RPC as needed.

[5:01:01] Voice 24: Excellent. So if there's no further

[5:01:04] Voice 24: discussion on this, we can move on. Number seven, I didn't see any new business. Is that correct?

[5:01:13] Voice 18: That's correct.

[5:01:15] Voice 24: And so that brings us to our work program at 8.1, page 49. Yeah.

[5:01:23] Voice 24: And over to you,

[5:01:25] Voice 24: sir thank

[5:01:26] Voice 18: you so i have hopefully on the screen just trying to get this a bit wider here so

[5:01:32] Voice 18: yeah so this is the projects report sorry i should be up here here we go so these are the top

[5:01:40] Voice 18: priorities of the local planning sorry the regional planning committee uh that was established at the

[5:01:46] Voice 18: last meeting so application processing services update i suggest given that you ask us to come

[5:01:52] Voice 18: back with more work on this that you leave this as item one and then number two is managed trust

[5:01:58] Voice 18: council strategic plan action items uh these items are for the most part being done uh well actually

[5:02:06] Voice 18: item six and item 16 are being done by consultants and item seven is being managed by narissa and

[5:02:14] Voice 18: william and item eight is being managed by william so the work is being done largely by contractors

[5:02:19] Voice 18: But that doesn't mean that staff are not actually doing anything, they are, there's actually quite a lot of work, especially with items seven and eight that Nerissa and William are focused on.

[5:02:30] Voice 18: So given that I would recommend that you just leave this with these two top priorities and consider amendments once you get the application processing up to council.

[5:02:40] Voice 18: so great

[5:02:45] Voice 24: that seems reasonable any questions for the director not seeing any hands so we can move

[5:02:54] Voice 24: on to uh i guess the projects lists yeah we're

[5:03:01] Voice 24: just about done

[5:03:02] Voice 18: projects list this is the list

[5:03:04] Voice 18: of items that was put on here um so shoreline marine planning are actually um working on that

[5:03:11] Voice 18: but it says conduct a working group session to brainstorm possible directions so this is something

[5:03:16] Voice 18: to think about. We got the CDF mapping as item two, and item three is mapping extensive

[5:03:26] Voice 18: eelgrass and kelp beds, and that was not done this fiscal, but there is a budget item for

[5:03:33] Voice 18: next fiscal. And undertaking review of Bowen Island Municipality foreshore and Islands

[5:03:39] Voice 18: Trust foreshore, that's actually underway right now. It's one of your priorities. Mapping

[5:03:47] Voice 18: and develop budget for groundwater aquifers that would be coming up in the next term and the same

[5:03:55] Voice 18: goes for developing model land use regulations be coming up in future budgets and then under housing

[5:04:03] Voice 18: the first item here is being under undertaken currently and item two is budgeted for the next

[5:04:12] Voice 18: fiscal year and item three would be budgeted for the third and final fiscal year of your term

[5:04:20] Voice 18: And then item six, mitigate and adapt to climate change.

[5:04:24] Voice 18: This is developing land use bylaws to foster climate change reliance, including measures to protect coastal Douglas Fair.

[5:04:32] Voice 18: And that is not for this fiscal year, but would be subject to budget in upcoming fiscal years.

[5:04:38] Voice 18: So all the items on here come off of the Islands Trust Strategic Plan.

[5:04:45] Voice 18: OK, back to the chair.

[5:04:49] Voice 24: Thank you. And any further questions for the director on the projects list?

[5:04:59] Voice 24: anybody nobody laura you're good i'm good okay well that looks like we have uh got to the end

[5:05:08] Voice 24: of our meeting not too bad it's 3 10 our next meeting being wednesday march 17th at 10 a.m

[5:05:15] Voice 24: right here and uh so we could move to adjournment then i

[5:05:21] Voice 13: move to adjourn the meeting uh

[5:05:25] Voice 24: how how

[5:05:26] Voice 24: How many people want to second that?

[5:05:29] Voice 4: I'll second it here on the phone.

[5:05:32] Voice 24: Excellent.

[5:05:33] Voice 24: Okay, well, thanks, everybody, staff and trustees, for being here.

[5:05:38] Voice 18: Yeah, thank you, everybody, and talk to you soon.

[5:05:41] Voice 18: Okay, stay safe and warm.

[5:05:43] Voice 24: Okay.

[5:05:43] Trustee Luckham: Thanks, everybody.

[5:05:44] Voice 18: Goodbye, all.

[5:05:45] Voice 18: Goodbye.

[5:05:46] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[5:05:47] Voice 18: Thanks, Nerissa, William.

[5:05:49] Voice 18: Appreciate it.

[5:05:53] Trustee Luckham: Thanks, Robert.

[5:05:55] Trustee Luckham: The unsung hero of the day.

[5:06:00] Voice 21: I could sing if you like.

[5:06:03] Trustee Luckham: uh well maybe i'd be open maybe maybe you're a great the

[5:06:10] Voice 21: next time we can get

[5:06:11] Trustee Luckham: yeah

[5:06:12] Voice 21: the next time we can get together we will okay

[5:06:15] Trustee Luckham: ciao thanks