Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee regular meeting, February 17, 2021

[0:00:00] Voice 16: Chair, if I may. Yes.

[0:00:02] Voice 12: We noticed late yesterday that Agenda Item 4.2 was not included in the

[0:00:10] Voice 12: agenda. So it was actually uploaded to our agenda software, but for whatever reason when the

[0:00:16] Voice 12: software ran the agenda package, it chose to exclude that item. So that is our quarter three

[0:00:21] Voice 12: forecast. We will be speaking to it at this meeting and we will circulate the documents

[0:00:27] Voice 12: after the meeting but just for the committee's awareness it wasn't in this

[0:00:30] Voice 12: package as it should have been and I offer apologies for that.

[0:00:33] Trustee Grove: Thank you so

[0:00:35] Trustee Grove: may I seek it by general consent that the agenda is adopted and I would like

[0:00:40] Trustee Grove: to say at this point how grateful we are I am and I'm sure we all are to live in

[0:00:46] Trustee Grove: these beautiful lands that have been inhabited for so very long by First

[0:00:51] Trustee Grove: Nations and it is our duty I see it to work together with First Nations to

[0:00:57] Trustee Grove: to preserve and protect these beautiful lands

[0:00:59] Trustee Grove: for generations to come.

[0:01:01] Trustee Grove: Thank you.

[0:01:04] Trustee Grove: So let us move to the minutes of the meeting

[0:01:06] Trustee Grove: on pages four through eight in your package.

[0:01:14] Trustee Grove: Any adds, deletes, changes to those minutes?

[0:01:23] Trustee Grove: I'll take it by general consent that they are approved.

[0:01:26] Trustee Grove: Thank you very much.

[0:01:29] Trustee Grove: There's a follow-up action list,

[0:01:32] Trustee Grove: page nine nine to ten Julia would you like to take us through that please yes

[0:01:37] Voice 12: Thank You mr. chair so as usual I will speak very briefly to the items still

[0:01:42] Voice 12: listed as in progress from the April 14th meeting direction to work with RPC

[0:01:47] Voice 12: on new fees bylaw or fee structure for the islands trust that conversation is

[0:01:53] Voice 12: still underway as you all know from the November meeting number one is

[0:01:58] Voice 12: direction to include some notes on how grants are dealt with at the trust as far as budget

[0:02:04] Voice 12: and accounting is concerned that note has been added to the budget and assumptions document

[0:02:09] Voice 12: being reviewed at this meeting and will be forwarded on to council subsequent

[0:02:14] Voice 12: analysis of the satellite offices on the various trust islands is still underway I've received

[0:02:20] Voice 12: feedback from a number of trustees with online offices however have not had time to put that

[0:02:25] Voice 12: analysis together so that is still forthcoming and from the January meeting review of policy 6.5.1

[0:02:31] Voice 12: which is our reserves and surplus policy is still underway and my hopes are to have it at the next

[0:02:35] Voice 12: meeting thank

[0:02:38] Trustee Grove: you any questions or comments let us then move on to trust council business 4.1

[0:02:46] Trustee Grove: the December 31 2020 financial report that we are being asked to forward to trust council but Julia

[0:02:53] Trustee Grove: we'd like to take us through that please and I think we can be quite brief and we can assume

[0:03:00] Trustee Grove: that everyone has read that report. I don't think we need to get into a great deal of detail bearing

[0:03:05] Trustee Grove: in mind we have a lot on our agenda today.

[0:03:09] Voice 12: I would agree Mr Chair so I will keep it very brief.

[0:03:12] Voice 12: Our third quarter report is showing that we have spent about 67% of approved budget which is less

[0:03:19] Voice 12: than three quarters or 75 percent of the annual budget so we have an underspending against budget

[0:03:25] Voice 12: at the end of third quarter this is mainly due to the change in operations as a result of the

[0:03:31] Voice 12: pandemic as you all know there's been reduced travel mainly electronic meetings there's also

[0:03:36] Voice 12: been some delays in projects a number of strategic plan projects as well as local trust committee

[0:03:42] Voice 12: projects which is also contributing to areas of underspending we've also had some significant

[0:03:48] Voice 12: significant vacancies in the year for specific roles and so we're seeing an underspending in

[0:03:53] Voice 12: the area of staff salaries. We're seeing an overspending in the area of legal litigation

[0:03:59] Voice 12: that's mainly due to legal defense costs where we are being sued and need to defend ourselves

[0:04:08] Voice 12: and so that is an area of overspending but that's being offset by areas of underspending.

[0:04:12] Voice 12: So overall, we're at 67% of budget spent

[0:04:16] Voice 12: and tracking towards that same number

[0:04:17] Voice 12: for the end of the year.

[0:04:20] Trustee Grove: Thank you very much.

[0:04:21] Trustee Grove: Any concerns?

[0:04:23] Trustee Grove: And if not, then if someone would like to make a motion.

[0:04:26] Voice 19: I have a couple of questions, Mr. Chairman.

[0:04:28] Trustee Grove: Yes.

[0:04:29] Trustee Grove: Do you

[0:04:29] Trustee Grove: want us to use

[0:04:29] Voice 19: digital hands or virtual?

[0:04:31] Voice 19: Wave

[0:04:32] Trustee Grove: at me rather than digital hands,

[0:04:35] Trustee Grove: but yeah, that's great.

[0:04:36] Trustee Grove: Thank you, Dan.

[0:04:38] Trustee Grove: Yeah.

[0:04:38] Trustee Grove: Yeah, so I'm

[0:04:41] Voice 19: guessing that this document merges

[0:04:45] Voice 19: with the forecast document that we don't have it.

[0:04:50] Voice 19: I mean, they're sort of, is that they,

[0:04:52] Voice 19: because you take this document

[0:04:53] Voice 19: then move to the forecast, is that right?

[0:04:57] Voice 12: Yes, we use our actual third quarter results

[0:04:59] Voice 12: to project the forecasted numbers.

[0:05:01] Voice 19: Okay, so I have a couple of things

[0:05:05] Voice 19: jump out at me in this report.

[0:05:07] Voice 19: I mean, I'm not surprised by the underspending in certain areas.

[0:05:12] Voice 19: The two places I'm not sure I understand, however, is that LTC projects are sitting at like $8,000 through nine months.

[0:05:24] Voice 19: And the other one is, I don't know what is meant by the bullet that says housing initiatives, less than $100 of expenses incurred.

[0:05:35] Voice 19: I don't know if that's an LTC issue it's under or whether that's the strategic plan item can you

[0:05:45] Voice 19: clarify that and then I wouldn't mind an explanation from somebody as to why given the

[0:05:51] Voice 19: the feedback we've received from a number of trustees that LTC projects are a problem that

[0:05:59] Voice 19: they aren't happening why we if we've got this money why why we've only spent 11 percent of the

[0:06:06] Voice 19: budget um

[0:06:09] Trustee Grove: mr chair yes please go ahead russ

[0:06:11] Voice 11: i'll uh initially speak to the ltc projects

[0:06:14] Voice 11: um the work we're doing around long-term projects and getting them done at the islands trust

[0:06:19] Voice 11: is um comprehensive and it's long-standing uh it's it's addressing long-standing issues and

[0:06:28] Voice 11: And one of the issues is not I'll just draw your attention to is not so much performance, but it's budgeting itself.

[0:06:35] Voice 11: So when you see the 11 percent, the 11 percent there are the eighty one hundred dollars does not relate to the percentage completion of those projects.

[0:06:44] Voice 11: Those are the projects are much more significantly advanced than these financial numbers indicate.

[0:06:50] Voice 11: keep in mind what happens is during the budgeting process each LTC identifies its three projects

[0:06:56] Voice 11: and then staff work with the elected officials to provide budgets associated with those

[0:07:01] Voice 11: and each one of those budgets it has to be discrete and have contingency associated with them

[0:07:09] Voice 11: various public meetings and so forth so towards the end of a year if we haven't done half of them

[0:07:15] Voice 11: because we're doing too many those items that are budgeted just end up staying on the budget

[0:07:20] Voice 11: so that's that's a a long-standing challenge we have to have and inside that question is

[0:07:27] Voice 11: we might have to budget differently instead of for the third project on main island having

[0:07:34] Voice 11: three thousand dollars and the same sort of elements associated with it we might have to

[0:07:42] Voice 11: under budget more on LTC projects, as well as do all of the work EC's been hearing about

[0:07:48] Voice 11: reordering our policy around how many projects we can have at any given time.

[0:07:55] Voice 11: The other component, of course, is that as we get towards the end of the year, we end up spending

[0:08:00] Voice 11: more money on things. What you're seeing right now, all the progress on most of the work we get

[0:08:05] Voice 11: done, frankly, is by staff. And when you see the last portion of the budget allocation for any

[0:08:11] Voice 11: given LTC project those are for the contingencies of needing outside expertise more community

[0:08:17] Voice 11: meetings those kinds of things and so that's a second consideration and the third consideration

[0:08:22] Voice 11: would be in the COVID world much you know we budgeted last year right on the right on the

[0:08:31] Voice 11: nose of COVID and we made an adjustment but I don't know whether that adjustment I think you

[0:08:37] Voice 11: hearing what we heard 10 minutes ago, that we're 67% instead of 73, I'd still say that's not bad

[0:08:43] Voice 11: in the middle of a pandemic to have recalibrated how we're going to spend our money. But I don't

[0:08:48] Voice 11: know whether that recalibration went deep enough into the budget to address this. So likely we

[0:08:54] Voice 11: budgeted, or the realities of the pandemic would have less community meetings on the ground,

[0:09:00] Voice 11: less ability to respond to issues that might have come up for any given project.

[0:09:06] Voice 11: So I'd say it's those three things. I'd leave you with this. We do have to get better at the budgeting process itself, not just the completion of the work.

[0:09:15] Voice 11: What we're trying to do is address the completion of the work, but the budgeting process needs to be refined and improved from the 20-year system we have in place, and that is fully acknowledged.

[0:09:27] Voice 11: That's what I would say. I don't know if the director has anything to add.

[0:09:34] Voice 1: Yeah, if I may, through the chair.

[0:09:36] Trustee Grove: Yes, please go ahead, Deb.

[0:09:38] Voice 1: Yeah, thank you. Just a second, just trying to find where my, there it is.

[0:09:46] Voice 1: Yeah, I did look into, you know, where the underspending is and why that is happening.

[0:09:53] Voice 1: And I can tell you that some of it, a lot of it, is the local trust committee having to

[0:10:00] Voice 1: extend the timeline or cancel a project or defer public hearings and community information meetings

[0:10:08] Voice 1: further down the road. So that represents about 68% of the underspending. And another big piece

[0:10:16] Voice 1: is that COVID has caused some reduction in our expenses as the CAO indicated. And then other ones

[0:10:27] Voice 1: ones is the other big areas around 10% was due to no staff resources being available

[0:10:36] Voice 1: to start the project at the time that we expected it to be began. And then a few there was just

[0:10:43] Voice 1: the actual expenditures were less than we expected. So, you know, it's, there's a whole

[0:10:49] Voice 1: bunch of reasons. But, you know, the work is getting done, at least most of it is getting

[0:10:56] Voice 1: Dan. But I agree with the CEO that we do need to review how we do our budgeting and try and

[0:11:03] Voice 1: get better at this. I'll leave it at that for now though.

[0:11:07] Trustee Grove: Thank you very much and Dan Rogers.

[0:11:13] Voice 19: Sorry just to follow up nobody I'd still like to know what the housing initiative is that's listed

[0:11:19] Voice 19: there as one percent concluded and whether that's the strategic plan item or something else.

[0:11:26] Trustee Grove: uh yes uh laura i

[0:11:30] Voice 4: can answer in in my um role as chair of uh rpc um and maybe a director

[0:11:36] Voice 4: marler can just uh chime in um if i don't have it right but that is a a project that

[0:11:43] Voice 4: uh is being done by rpc that is in the strategic plan and the budget is entirely about hiring a

[0:11:51] Voice 4: a consultant to to do that work and the consultant has just been hired and the work is starting so

[0:11:56] Voice 4: it's going to be unspent unspent and then spent when the invoice comes from the consultant and

[0:12:02] Voice 4: that has to do with alternate ways of measuring density if

[0:12:06] Voice 16: i might

[0:12:08] Voice 19: mr chair may i make a comment

[0:12:10] Voice 19: regarding the answer from staff is that acceptable please do yes uh about the l the the local trust

[0:12:17] Voice 19: trust committee I've been a trustee for six years and of course the discussion about unfinished

[0:12:22] Voice 19: local trust committee projects has been on the table for six years I agree entirely and I will

[0:12:28] Voice 19: have some comments related to the budget is when we get the budgeting process when we get into that

[0:12:32] Voice 19: I would I would say that my you know that the I agree that that we've had experience where

[0:12:41] Voice 19: where staffing has been an issue related

[0:12:43] Voice 19: to local trust committee budgets.

[0:12:46] Voice 19: I have had no experience with any local trust committee

[0:12:49] Voice 19: that of its own volition extended timelines

[0:12:52] Voice 19: or canceled the timeframes.

[0:12:55] Voice 19: So, but maybe that's happening somewhere.

[0:12:57] Voice 19: I would appreciate in this report

[0:12:59] Voice 19: when it goes to trust council

[0:13:01] Voice 19: that that explanation perhaps be included in here.

[0:13:04] Voice 19: It jumped right out at me when I saw it.

[0:13:08] Voice 19: and um uh it uh it um it because i guess because it's been a consistent theme why it's one of the

[0:13:18] Voice 19: reasons why we have a surplus uh a lot of times it's because local trust committee budgets

[0:13:23] Voice 19: often project budgets don't get completed um and uh anyway so what i would ask is is that

[0:13:32] Voice 19: there be an explanation included under that budget as to why that is um uh because some of the things

[0:13:39] Voice 19: you said aren't included in the explanation that's there

[0:13:42] Trustee Grove: absolutely so do we need a motion to that

[0:13:47] Voice 11: i don't know whether you can you could direct us and that could certainly be done um

[0:13:54] Voice 19: i can make a

[0:13:55] Voice 19: motion it's a staff report i'll move that the uh uh the q3 um sorry the um q3 financial report

[0:14:08] Voice 19: uh include an explanation as to a more sorry a fuller explanation as to why

[0:14:15] Voice 19: the ltc project budget is um underspent is

[0:14:22] Trustee Grove: there a seconder thank you sue allen

[0:14:24] Trustee Grove: would you wish to speak to the motion either of you?

[0:14:29] Voice 8: I think you did.

[0:14:31] Trustee Grove: Any discussion? All those in favor?

[0:14:36] Voice 17: Process point, sorry, I wave my hand to have discussion, but I didn't get it.

[0:14:43] Trustee Grove: Okay, please. Yeah, if I don't respond to your hand waving, it's because

[0:14:47] Trustee Grove: there's a timing issue. So be prepared to shout just as you did. And Deb, do you have a comment?

[0:14:53] Trustee Grove: sorry yes

[0:14:54] Voice 17: please so just to i just want to make sure that i'm clear on this um and i think this

[0:15:00] Voice 17: is probably the clarity that dan's asking for so i'm all for that um but so my understanding is

[0:15:06] Voice 17: that part of the reason those ltc budgets are not getting fully spent is potentially due to staffing

[0:15:14] Voice 17: shortages from what i just heard david say is that accurate go

[0:15:18] Trustee Grove: ahead david uh

[0:15:20] Voice 1: not entirely uh there

[0:15:22] Voice 1: There was one project that is indicated as being not started because of lack of staff.

[0:15:28] Voice 1: But what that means is that they're working on something else that maybe got delayed.

[0:15:33] Voice 1: So it's like a knock on effect.

[0:15:36] Voice 1: Most of the cost is involved in local trust committee requiring more time for the public to think about the project.

[0:15:46] Voice 1: And one trust committee removed the project and give it to the advisory planning commission.

[0:15:50] Voice 1: So there's a few of those things I can provide it to the detail of each particular project if that's what you want, or just a summary.

[0:16:00] Voice 1: So either way.

[0:16:02] Voice 9: Okay.

[0:16:03] Voice 1: Mr. Chair.

[0:16:05] Voice 11: Yes, Russ.

[0:16:06] Voice 11: Well, as I was speaking earlier is not one.

[0:16:09] Voice 11: It's good to hear what the elected officials are focusing in on as what they're taking away from what we've just discussed.

[0:16:16] Voice 11: So it's about six things. There's about six reasons there. And they're intimately related to how we're trying to reorder the delivery of long use plan, land use planning services from an OCP perspective, because we all agree that, or most of us agree that our strategic plan and doing the work that we've collectively wanted to do has to be realized through our OCPs.

[0:16:45] Voice 11: and they won't get done unless there is dedicated workforce to doing that the budgeting process is

[0:16:51] Voice 11: a piece of that pie as well as staff allocations so we're trying to get to trust council with

[0:17:01] Voice 11: these key things and we're talking to EEC about how we manage projects and you know resource

[0:17:06] Voice 11: allocation budgeting the staff allocation all of those elements work together and we're trying and

[0:17:13] Voice 11: I don't know how successful we are yet to explain how we're trying to address that in a coordinated

[0:17:20] Voice 11: way without asking for new staffing resources. So bear with us and David will provide an

[0:17:30] Voice 11: explanatory note for the actual budgeting process and inside that would be some, we'll probably

[0:17:37] Voice 11: we'll look at some reflections on how to do that better but yeah that's it's five or six things

[0:17:44] Voice 11: thank you thank

[0:17:47] Trustee Grove: you any other points and if not would someone like to make that motion

[0:17:53] Voice 8: we made it and seconded it on the floor beg

[0:17:57] Trustee Grove: your pardon thank you we did indeed so maybe I'd like

[0:18:01] Trustee Grove: raise ask the question all those in favor contrary that carries thank you very much

[0:18:10] Trustee Grove: um we have a forecast briefing ahead of us 4.2 pages 19 to 21. julia over to you uh thanks mr

[0:18:19] Voice 12: chair so item 4.2 is that item that i mentioned earlier that unfortunately did not make it into

[0:18:24] Voice 12: the agenda package um so we do have it up on screen but this is our third quarter forecast

[0:18:30] Voice 12: which is based on our third quarter actual results so we're forecasting where we might land at the

[0:18:35] Voice 12: end of the year. In our standard operational areas, we don't expect much change from what

[0:18:42] Voice 12: we've seen over the first three quarters. So we're still going to be holding electronic meetings,

[0:18:46] Voice 12: which means we'll still have an underspending and things like meeting expense, you know,

[0:18:51] Voice 12: sort of office costs should remain, should hit 100% of budget as usual. And the same trend that

[0:18:56] Voice 12: we see in third quarter actual with underspending on LTC projects and strategic plan projects

[0:19:01] Voice 12: and staff salaries and benefits is also expected.

[0:19:07] Voice 12: So LTC projects we're expecting to have an underspending

[0:19:11] Voice 12: of about $31,000 by the end of the year.

[0:19:14] Voice 12: So spending approximately half of what was budgeted

[0:19:17] Voice 12: for that work for much of the same reasons

[0:19:20] Voice 12: that Director Marlar just mentioned.

[0:19:22] Voice 12: A number of strategic plan projects are also expected

[0:19:25] Voice 12: to not be completed at the end of the year.

[0:19:27] Voice 12: The $50,000 that was allocated to mapping of eelgrass

[0:19:31] Voice 12: has been bumped into next fiscal year there's also some anticipated underspending on the area

[0:19:36] Voice 12: of stewardship education project as well as the islands trust act amendment work and the

[0:19:41] Voice 12: underspending from the current year will carry forward into next year's budget as a draw from

[0:19:46] Voice 12: surplus to continue that work so at the end of the year we're expecting to be almost three hundred

[0:19:52] Voice 12: thousand dollars underspent against approved budget which is sort of what we were expecting

[0:19:59] Voice 12: over in the year as well so that briefing and attachment will be forwarded out to the committee

[0:20:04] Voice 12: and again my apologies that it didn't make it into this package i'm happy to take questions

[0:20:09] Trustee Grove: any questions yes dan i'm

[0:20:13] Voice 19: sorry i'm i i may be a repetitive voice today uh you might hear all

[0:20:21] Voice 19: a fair amount um my question is can and i'm sorry if you can scroll through maybe the numbers are

[0:20:26] Voice 19: there but can you give me an idea uh because it's going to become part of the discussion as we go

[0:20:31] Voice 19: forward um where we're going to land and where are you forecasting we'll land in terms of surplus

[0:20:37] Voice 19: slash deficit and um and then then at the end of the day what we see as the april 1st uh surplus

[0:20:51] Voice 19: number because i'm trying to piece those pieces together when we get into further budgeting

[0:20:55] Voice 19: discussions because I can't I couldn't find some of those numbers in the documents we have and

[0:21:01] Voice 19: that's why so I can't I know it's there but perhaps you could explain that.

[0:21:06] Voice 12: Certainly so

[0:21:07] Voice 12: at the end of the year we're forecasting to be in a shortfall position of about $157,000

[0:21:13] Voice 12: so that's revenues minus expenses gives us a deficit of $150,000 that $150,000 needs to be

[0:21:21] Voice 12: be funded from somewhere. So the anticipation is that $22,000 of that will be funded from the

[0:21:29] Voice 12: General Revenue Surplus Fund. We'll have about $41,000 that is funded from the LTC Project

[0:21:34] Voice 12: Specific Reserve Fund. Offsetting that is about $18,000 that's actually going to be a contribution

[0:21:40] Voice 12: to the SWPA Special Tax Requisition Fund, and that's because SWPA is not going to spend all

[0:21:46] Voice 12: of their money this year. And then the remaining difference of $112,000 relates to activity

[0:21:53] Voice 12: associated with tangible capital assets. And so we'll see a change in the balance of amounts

[0:22:01] Voice 12: invested in tangible capital assets, which are non-cash amounts of $112,000. So I have performed

[0:22:07] Voice 12: the different fund reconciliations year over year. And I can also share that with the committee when

[0:22:13] Voice 12: when we circulate the third quarter forecasted figures.

[0:22:17] Voice 12: And we are going to look at surplus balances later on

[0:22:21] Voice 12: in this agenda as well for the opening surplus balance

[0:22:23] Voice 12: at the end of the year.

[0:22:26] Trustee Grove: Thank you.

[0:22:31] Voice 19: Sorry, excuse me.

[0:22:32] Voice 19: Am I correct then that it sounds like

[0:22:36] Voice 19: from a cash perspective, it's a very small deficit?

[0:22:44] Voice 12: From a cash, yeah.

[0:22:46] Voice 12: So there'll be a total of $22,000 draw

[0:22:50] Voice 12: from general revenue surplus and 41,000 draw from LTC project-specific reserve fund. Those are the

[0:22:56] Voice 12: the cash impact.

[0:22:58] Voice 19: Right, so 60,000-ish dollars.

[0:23:01] Voice 12: Ish, yes.

[0:23:03] Voice 19: Okay, I do have some questions about

[0:23:05] Voice 19: the surplus when we get to that, thank you.

[0:23:10] Trustee Grove: Anything else? Anything else from anybody?

[0:23:18] Trustee Grove: So note that we are receiving this for information, but we could

[0:23:21] Trustee Grove: forward it to trust counsel if we thought that was a good idea.

[0:23:25] Trustee Grove: yeah having not read it

[0:23:29] Voice 8: having not read it i don't uh want to forward it to trust council

[0:23:34] Voice 8: fair

[0:23:36] Trustee Grove: enough and i think trust council gets enough paper for their quarterly meeting anyway um so um

[0:23:42] Trustee Grove: shall we leave it as it is then it looks like by general consent we will do so

[0:23:48] Trustee Grove: um so let us turn to the forecasted overspending in specific areas briefing 19 pages 19 to 21

[0:23:56] Trustee Grove: and um

[0:23:59] Voice 16: and

[0:24:04] Trustee Grove: i think that's basically covered in what we've been have been saying so i don't think

[0:24:10] Trustee Grove: there's anything else for that it says receive for information i think we can leave it at that

[0:24:14] Trustee Grove: so i'd like to move on to 4.4 if that's all right with everybody hearing none it's an amendment to

[0:24:24] Trustee Grove: policy 6.3.2 special property tax requisition and i note that um this has been sent to us

[0:24:32] Trustee Grove: basically as a courtesy. I see, yes. So this is going to be crazy, I'm sorry. There is no need

[0:24:46] Trustee Grove: for us to have any action about this at all, unless we want to talk about it. Julia Marks.

[0:24:55] Voice 12: Julia Marks Thanks, Mr. Chair. So, yes, this was work that was directed to staff directly

[0:25:01] Voice 12: from Trust Council. I did feel that it was prudent to bring it to FPC as FPC does have oversight of

[0:25:09] Voice 12: trust financial matters and also some of the recommended changes to this policy directly

[0:25:15] Voice 12: impact the draft budget. So Trust Council did pass a motion in September of last year I believe to

[0:25:23] Voice 12: approve the Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee to use SWPA surplus funds or SWPA

[0:25:29] Voice 12: reserve funds for local trust committee projects in reviewing this policy we've uncovered that

[0:25:34] Voice 12: there's legislation that prohibits that and prohibits the use of the swipper reserve fund

[0:25:40] Voice 12: in that manner and of course the current draft of the budget includes the use of swipper reserve

[0:25:45] Voice 12: money in that manner and with FPC making decisions around the budget at this meeting I felt it only

[0:25:50] Voice 12: made sense to make the committee aware of these recommended changes being brought forward to

[0:25:55] Voice 12: council um so up to the chair and committee if um if they'd like to have a discussion about it

[0:26:00] Voice 12: or simply receive the information and use it in discussion of the draft budget uh

[0:26:07] Trustee Grove: laura patrick

[0:26:09] Trustee Patrick: well i mean i do need to understand this but do we need to take everyone's time to have that or is

[0:26:19] Trustee Patrick: this for salt spring to understand the impact of this on the projects that are being requested

[0:26:24] Trustee Patrick: because this is significant and impacts the future of SWPA.

[0:26:29] Trustee Patrick: So if we don't have the discussion now,

[0:26:34] Trustee Patrick: how can we have the discussion?

[0:26:41] Trustee Grove: Julia, can you just summarize for us precisely

[0:26:46] Trustee Grove: Russ Holzenfeller is going to do that.

[0:26:49] Trustee Grove: Thank you.

[0:26:49] Voice 11: No, I think Julia should summarize this.

[0:26:52] Voice 11: I do think this is important

[0:26:53] Voice 11: in following what with trustee Patrick,

[0:26:57] Voice 11: Patrick, because you can hypothesize a time when it's not just Salt Spring Island that uses this.

[0:27:03] Voice 11: This could be put into place for any local trust committee. And this policy would apply,

[0:27:12] Voice 11: as I understand it. So this is a refinement or a modernization of this process. So there should

[0:27:19] Voice 11: be some, and it's a policy change. So if it's not reviewed by elected officials now, it should come

[0:27:26] Voice 11: back for someone to look to review it yes so

[0:27:35] Trustee Grove: i'd like to ask can we not change the policy to reflect

[0:27:40] Trustee Grove: what it is that we're trying to do um julia um

[0:27:47] Voice 12: so there there are a number of changes to this policy

[0:27:50] Voice 12: that are um up for debate and up for discussion they are sort of administrative they're true

[0:27:56] Voice 12: sort of elements that are embedded in policy the one significant change um to the policy is

[0:28:03] Voice 12: actually being added because of legislation. So the community charter, I believe it's

[0:28:09] Voice 12: part six, division four, section 189, one and two, that reads that any money in a reserve fund

[0:28:16] Voice 12: must be used only for the purpose for which the fund was established. And so what that means

[0:28:22] Voice 12: is that the SWPA reserve fund can only be used to fund SWPA operations. The motion that was passed

[0:28:30] Voice 12: by trust council in september was stepping outside of that and giving approval for the salt spring

[0:28:36] Voice 12: island local trust committee to use the swipper reserve fund to undertake some freshwater related

[0:28:41] Voice 12: projects which are outside the delegated authority under bylaw 154. so in performing the review of

[0:28:48] Voice 12: this policy that trust council requested we um you know learned about this this new area of the

[0:28:54] Voice 12: community charter that does apply to the islands trust that prohibits that use um and so what that

[0:29:00] Voice 12: means is that a change will be required to the draft budget which will impact the projects that

[0:29:06] Voice 12: the salt spring island local trust committee want to undertake it is possible that those projects

[0:29:11] Voice 12: could still be funded if fpc and trust council determined that they wanted to fund the projects

[0:29:17] Voice 12: in a different manner the projects just cannot be funded from the swipper reserve fund

[0:29:23] Voice 12: so you know that's the key change in this policy that is going to

[0:29:27] Voice 12: affect the budget that FPC needs to be aware of and unfortunately there's not really a way for us

[0:29:35] Voice 12: to get around that because it is embedded in the community charter which is a piece of legislation

[0:29:41] Voice 12: so I'm happy to take questions on that I see a number of hands raising so I'll pipe down and

[0:29:46] Voice 12: if

[0:29:46] Trustee Grove: I can be so rude as to ask can we not change the can trust council not change the delegated

[0:29:52] Trustee Grove: authority to cover what it is we want to cover uh

[0:29:57] Voice 12: the delegated authority in bylaw 15

[0:30:00] Voice 12: I would have to pass that over to Director Marler. He's got the history on that by-law.

[0:30:06] Voice 12: So through the Chair, I'll pass that over to Director Marler.

[0:30:09] Voice 1: Yeah, I can respond to that through the Chair.

[0:30:13] Voice 1: The delegated authority is limited by the Islands Trust Act.

[0:30:19] Voice 1: So Section 11, I think it's 11, I can't remember, it might be, sorry, Section 8 of the Islands Trust Act

[0:30:26] Voice 1: states the things that Trust Council can do and what it can delegate.

[0:30:29] Voice 1: So the wording in bylaw 154 comes directly from the legislation, so we can't expand that.

[0:30:36] Voice 1: I'd also like to point out that the funding, the special property tax levy, is for the delegated authority.

[0:30:44] Voice 1: It's not specifically for SWPA.

[0:30:47] Voice 1: So it's for what the Trust Committee can do under the Delegated Authority, which is coordination and assist with policy development.

[0:30:59] Voice 1: It's more about what specifically the funds were actually requested for, which in the past has been for a coordinator to run SWPR.

[0:31:10] Voice 1: So that's more the issue.

[0:31:13] Trustee Grove: Thank you. Laura Patrick.

[0:31:16] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, I mean, this is going to, we're going to suck up a lot of time here. I mean, the two projects that we have to assist SWPA in doing a strategic plan is coordination. It's using the coordinator, it's getting assistance to help the coordinator do that.

[0:31:33] Trustee Patrick: So I'm very confused as to how that is not considered coordination completely within that.

[0:31:39] Trustee Patrick: that. I know we've had argument of whether or not doing a watershed study, but, you know,

[0:31:45] Trustee Patrick: most people who say assist in the development of policy, how can we develop the policy if we don't

[0:31:50] Trustee Patrick: know we have a problem with the watershed? You know, so we can argue that one, but the strategic

[0:31:56] Trustee Patrick: plan is clearly, I can't see how we could argue that it's not coordination, and that's frustrating.

[0:32:05] Trustee Patrick: frustrating.

[0:32:08] Trustee Grove: I would agree with that. Sorry. But what about, I guess the only place where we fall

[0:32:14] Trustee Grove: short is the CRD's request for $30,000 for their watershed study. Is that right, Laura Patrick?

[0:32:24] Trustee Patrick: Well, $14,000 of that's from a grant that was not special tax requisition money. So,

[0:32:35] Trustee Patrick: but like I said, we could argue, is it assisting to the development of a policy or not?

[0:32:42] Trustee Grove: Thank you. Dan, was your hand up there a moment ago?

[0:32:47] Voice 19: It was, but it's on a different part of this. I don't want to cut off your

[0:32:52] Voice 19: conversation about that issue. I have another question about another section of the new...

[0:32:56] Trustee Grove: Let's stick to this conversation for now. Deb, you've frozen. No. Julia Mobs.

[0:33:08] Voice 12: So just to comment briefly on the topic of whether or not projects meet the definition

[0:33:13] Voice 12: of assisting and coordinating that is something that I know director Marla is

[0:33:18] Voice 12: talking about with staff I haven't heard currently that there's been any

[0:33:24] Voice 12: decisions to say that yes these projects do actually meet the criteria for

[0:33:27] Voice 12: assisting and coordinating right now the messaging has been that they do not that

[0:33:31] Voice 12: that it is actual work so you know if there's a change in that direction can

[0:33:38] Voice 12: certainly been received but I haven't heard anything about that yet and you know as I said

[0:33:45] Voice 12: there is opportunity for the projects to move forward they would just need a different source

[0:33:50] Voice 12: of funding you know there's a possibility I've been sent an email out to staff haven't heard

[0:33:56] Voice 12: back yet that the proposed special requisition for the work of SWPA could instead you know there

[0:34:03] Voice 12: could be a special requisition for these projects and SWPA could tap into the existing reserve fund

[0:34:09] Voice 12: it's something to explore but like I said the definition of whether or not these projects meet

[0:34:13] Voice 12: coordination assisting is probably better answered by Director Marler honestly

[0:34:17] Voice 12: than by myself.

[0:34:23] Trustee Grove: Director Marler any other thoughts on this?

[0:34:27] Voice 1: No I already stated that

[0:34:29] Voice 1: the particular project as I understand it from talking with Jason is considered assisting it

[0:34:36] Voice 1: would be coordination is working to develop policy and that to me falls in the bylaw 154

[0:34:42] Voice 1: again it's not i don't question that the special levy could be used for that but the reserve funds

[0:34:48] Voice 1: were requisitioned years ago for something a bit more specific and that would be where my concern

[0:34:54] Voice 1: would fall so

[0:34:59] Trustee Grove: and dan i gather you had another question on this in this section uh it's not on

[0:35:05] Trustee Grove: this

[0:35:05] Voice 19: section it's on another section of the policy and i see chair luckham's hand is up and maybe he's

[0:35:11] Voice 19: going to talk about this and I expect Vice Chair Patrick wants to speak.

[0:35:14] Voice 19: I

[0:35:14] Trustee Grove: don't even see Chair Luckham. Is he hiding away somewhere?

[0:35:21] Voice 8: We see him. We see him. Can you slide yours?

[0:35:25] Voice 8: I

[0:35:25] Trustee Grove: am doing it. I'm doing it. I'm doing that. Yeah. Oh, there he is. Gosh.

[0:35:32] Trustee Grove: Hey, you're hiding behind the pillar. Sorry about that.

[0:35:36] Trustee Luckham: Well, there you go.

[0:35:38] Trustee Grove: And Peter, you have your hand up, I gather.

[0:35:40] Trustee Grove: I

[0:35:43] Trustee Luckham: do. This was sort of late breaking news only a few days ago and is pretty dramatic. It has

[0:35:57] Trustee Luckham: very serious impacts on Salt Spring with strategic planning, with other work that is underway.

[0:36:06] Trustee Luckham: way um um and it you know there seems to be a lot of you know even in here now you know it's ended

[0:36:14] Trustee Luckham: up on this table because financial planning committee is kind of the financial authority

[0:36:18] Trustee Luckham: here but clearly this is also a council decision with respect to um the funding of uh this and so

[0:36:27] Trustee Luckham: um it's terrific to have this conversation but um there's a certainly a lot of interpretation here

[0:36:33] Trustee Luckham: in what it is that is planned and whether it's assisting or not.

[0:36:38] Trustee Luckham: And I just can't help but wonder,

[0:36:40] Trustee Luckham: should we be seeking some outside legal financial advice on this

[0:36:46] Trustee Luckham: that can provide us an objective point of view

[0:36:49] Trustee Luckham: in looking at the work program that exists?

[0:36:53] Trustee Luckham: Does the work program need to be changed in the language it's using?

[0:36:58] Trustee Luckham: Not that we're trying to manipulate it in any way, shape or form,

[0:37:02] Trustee Luckham: But I think we really need to have a clear understanding of the role of SWPA, the coordinator, and the work that is necessary in order to coordinate the various agencies and the work that needs to be undertaken on that island.

[0:37:18] Trustee Luckham: We certainly don't want to go outside of the framework, but it seems unclear to me, and I'm not 100% sure one way or the other.

[0:37:28] Trustee Luckham: But I want to totally respect staff's point of view, of course.

[0:37:34] Trustee Grove: I

[0:37:35] Voice 11: agree. I don't think you're going to probably solve this here. We should go out and get some

[0:37:39] Voice 11: sort of advice and we should do that very quickly so that that can be attached to the budget package

[0:37:45] Voice 11: as it goes forward. Can

[0:37:47] Trustee Luckham: I make a motion, Mr. Chair?

[0:37:49] Voice 11: Yes, please do.

[0:37:51] Trustee Luckham: I like to get things moving.

[0:37:53] Trustee Luckham: So I

[0:37:53] Trustee Grove: would move that

[0:37:54] Trustee Luckham: financial planning committee ask staff to go out and procure advice on the Salt Spring Island, on the SWPA funding proposals.

[0:38:14] Trustee Grove: And its compliance with the Act.

[0:38:17] Trustee Grove: Do you have that, Secretary? I assume so. I'm hoping that was recorded.

[0:38:23] Trustee Grove: Do we have a seconder? Trustee Morrison. Thank you. Any discussion, Chair Peter Lackham?

[0:38:37] Trustee Luckham: No, we need clarity on Salt Spring. There's a lot at stake here and obviously an alternate plan will have to be...

[0:38:48] Trustee Luckham: This is money that actually was raised on Salt Spring, to be used on Salt Spring. I think that's really the important thing.

[0:38:53] Trustee Luckham: thing and we've been uh certain to be sure that that is being applied within the framework for

[0:39:00] Trustee Luckham: which the money was raised thank

[0:39:04] Trustee Grove: you i'm curious as to where we would go to get that advice uh russ

[0:39:08] Trustee Grove: uh

[0:39:09] Voice 11: we can get a legal opinion and um rather quickly as to whether or not the uh under the

[0:39:18] Voice 11: act we you know how defined that authority is and um because i don't see in this report

[0:39:25] Voice 11: uh much investigation of um staff's interpretation so we need to make that clearer

[0:39:33] Trustee Grove: thank you

[0:39:34] Voice 11: and i do um

[0:39:35] Trustee Grove: yeah uh so you emphasize um peter luckham's point that this money was raised

[0:39:40] Trustee Grove: on salt stream i don't think

[0:39:41] Voice 11: that's the yeah no i and it's a question of you know once something's

[0:39:45] Voice 11: out on the table everything's being considered that's not a question I don't think the delegation

[0:39:49] Voice 11: of authority issue is a question it's a question of uh use of those funds um um and direction of

[0:39:58] Voice 11: those funds and whether the policy allows for it and the act allows for it for these for these

[0:40:02] Voice 11: purposes thank

[0:40:04] Trustee Grove: you I saw another hand up uh Laura would she can thank

[0:40:08] Voice 4: you yeah I mean I I really

[0:40:10] Voice 4: like that we're going to be uh clarifying um like a almost a definition or certainly a clear

[0:40:16] Voice 4: understanding of what coordination and assistance with policy development really means and what it

[0:40:22] Voice 4: entails and doesn't entail. And also just, you know, I want us to remember this is right now

[0:40:29] Voice 4: about Salt Spring, but it could be about any LTC in the future. And it's important to keep that in

[0:40:35] Voice 4: mind. And we want to make sure the way we do everything is transparent. And so if it's about

[0:40:42] Voice 4: about using surplus that was raised some years ago with a certain purpose for a different purpose

[0:40:48] Voice 4: that could look funny um i'm not

[0:40:51] Voice 4: saying it's not a good thing but we want to be really clear and

[0:40:53] Voice 4: the only thing i just would ask is when this does come to council um make it clear what council's

[0:40:58] Voice 4: supposed to be doing about it like i'm sitting here thinking like yeah but what am what am i

[0:41:04] Voice 4: being asked to like decide on and I'm not really sure clearly there's something we need to

[0:41:12] Voice 4: understand so when this comes back whether it's here council I would love a little more guidance

[0:41:17] Voice 4: about what our role is and what our job is with it

[0:41:19] Trustee Grove: thank you Dan Rogers and then I need to ask

[0:41:21] Voice 19: ask the question I have a question of clarification it references the islands trust act but I heard

[0:41:27] Voice 19: the director referenced the community charter and I wondered whether it needs to be broadened

[0:41:33] Voice 19: in that way. It's a question. David Marlin is going to answer it.

[0:41:37] Voice 1: Yeah, I think it's fine as

[0:41:39] Voice 1: is because all of our legislation comes through the Islands Trust Act. It points to community

[0:41:45] Voice 1: charter. So this covers that. We're fine.

[0:41:49] Trustee Grove: So I'd like to ask a question if that's all right

[0:41:51] Trustee Grove: with everybody. So all those in favor of this motion against. Sorry, Laura, that was a vote

[0:42:01] Trustee Grove: in favor I assume. Yeah thank you that carries um unanimously I appreciate that thank you for

[0:42:08] Trustee Grove: your time and um it's this is frustrating to put it mildly um let us turn to um page 4.8

[0:42:20] Trustee Grove: ministry bylaws for trust. Mr Chair

[0:42:22] Voice 19: I had another comment related to this policy. Yes please go

[0:42:26] Trustee Grove: thank

[0:42:27] Voice 19: you for this this item thank you this I've been holding it it's about a different item and I

[0:42:32] Voice 19: It's about the language contained in the proposed amendment in Section 2.2, which is quite different than what's in the current policy.

[0:42:48] Voice 19: And I'm trying to get my head around whether this is intended to address local trust committee projects generally or just those for which a special tax requisition is sought.

[0:43:02] Voice 19: lot because on a rating of

[0:43:04] Voice 19: 2.2 it appears to be covering off all sorts of local any local trust

[0:43:11] Voice 19: committee uh project that's over five thousand dollars so i'd like to know what the intent of

[0:43:16] Voice 19: that is who

[0:43:18] Trustee Grove: would like to answer that

[0:43:20] Voice 12: julia thank you

[0:43:23] Voice 12: i can start off and then um have director

[0:43:26] Voice 12: marler fill in any gaps uh so this this was something that um myself director marler and

[0:43:31] Voice 12: the Manager of Legislative Services talked about. The original language in this section of the

[0:43:36] Voice 12: policy said that LTCs wishing to propose a specific additional operation must ascertain

[0:43:43] Voice 12: and develop a budget and bring it forward to Trust Council in December. However, an additional

[0:43:48] Voice 12: operation, one of the potential definitions of additional operation is a project that is beyond

[0:43:55] Voice 12: on the base budget as determined by trust council and, you know, or a project that perhaps has

[0:44:03] Voice 12: an enhanced level of service that isn't being offered to other LTCs. And so a project over

[0:44:11] Voice 12: a $5,000 limit may encapsulate those qualities that then would be defined as an additional

[0:44:17] Voice 12: operation. So there was that discussion and also the current way of developing the

[0:44:24] Voice 12: budget for how much will be allocated in the budget for local trust committee projects

[0:44:28] Voice 12: is based on a methodology that looks at specific projects over five thousand dollars plus um sort

[0:44:34] Voice 12: of a lump sum that's allocated for unknown projects that may come forward and so we felt

[0:44:39] Voice 12: if we amended the policy for to read as it does now it would more closely align with how we're

[0:44:45] Voice 12: budgeting and help us actually improve budgeting um so that that was staff's thought if director

[0:44:52] Voice 12: Marla wants to add anything I'd welcome that if the chair is open to that as well

[0:44:56] Trustee Grove: absolutely

[0:44:58] Voice 1: actually I have nothing to add to that that's my understanding as well okay

[0:45:06] Voice 19: so Mr chair if I might

[0:45:08] Voice 19: and then Peter Luckham so I must say I'm a little I as I read this I'm a little concerned because

[0:45:16] Voice 19: the title of this policy is special tax requisitions but it sounds like this clause

[0:45:21] Voice 19: is going to change the way or dictate the way

[0:45:26] Voice 19: that local trust committees go about getting

[0:45:29] Voice 19: their local trust committee budgets get approved

[0:45:32] Voice 19: by whether or not they're in a special tax requisition.

[0:45:36] Voice 19: And I wouldn't have thought that that change in policy

[0:45:39] Voice 19: would be embedded in this policy,

[0:45:42] Voice 19: which is about special tax requisitions,

[0:45:44] Voice 19: rather than in the regular budgeting practice,

[0:45:47] Voice 19: which is why I asked the question.

[0:45:49] Voice 19: I just assumed all this was about SWPA

[0:45:51] Voice 19: and the special tax requisitions and it sounds like that this clause in particular is intended

[0:45:57] Voice 19: to change to input i don't want to say change because i'll get into a debate of whether that's

[0:46:03] Voice 19: just the current policy or not about how any local trust committee project is is is determined and

[0:46:10] Voice 19: funded is that and i just that was my question is that the intent of it um

[0:46:19] Voice 12: i think from staff

[0:46:20] Voice 12: perspective in some ways yes um simply because the policy also says that what is considered um

[0:46:32] Voice 12: an additional operation is actually decided by trust council um and that anything that is an

[0:46:38] Voice 12: additional operation will only go to special property tax requisition potentially will be

[0:46:43] Voice 12: considered for special property tax requisition if it is over the five thousand dollar limit

[0:46:47] Voice 12: but if it's council that needs to determine whether or not something is an additional operation

[0:46:52] Voice 12: then council needs to see that project to make that determination to decide if they want it to

[0:46:58] Voice 12: be funded under special requisition so it provided a layer of clarity from staff perspective you know

[0:47:04] Voice 12: but this is something that is up for discussion and debate that trust council could determine is

[0:47:08] Voice 12: is too much is not something that they want to undertake and we could simply revert back to

[0:47:13] Voice 12: previous language or amend it to actually say that additional operations greater than five thousand

[0:47:20] Voice 12: dollars will be brought forward to trust council in december because that is what the original

[0:47:24] Voice 12: policy said and the way that it should be happening so there's definitely room to make

[0:47:28] Voice 12: changes to this if it's unclear or if politicians don't agree with what's in there well

[0:47:38] Voice 19: and i don't

[0:47:39] Voice 19: want to repeat myself too much but as i said this is a change to the budgeting process i think of

[0:47:44] Voice 19: for example um the water mapping project that went through all a number of the southern gulf

[0:47:50] Voice 19: islands ltcs it was ten thousand dollars per lpc those did not come to trust council there was

[0:47:55] Voice 19: this process was not followed in this fashion um so this is a changed process i'm not saying

[0:48:01] Voice 19: i'm against it i'm just saying it is a change to the budgeting process that um it seems to be in

[0:48:07] Voice 19: the special tax requisition policy which seems like an odd place to put it.

[0:48:14] Trustee Grove: Laura followed by

[0:48:16] Trustee Grove: Deb Morrison.

[0:48:18] Voice 4: Thank you and thank you Trustee Rogers for you know kind of digging into this

[0:48:22] Voice 4: because I admit I've read this package and that just kind of flew past me because I thought I

[0:48:30] Voice 4: was reading about a special tax requisition policy and I'm not saying like you I'm not

[0:48:37] Voice 4: not against this idea and I think something either this or something like it is important

[0:48:41] Voice 4: but I feel that this belongs in what we are working towards with um our analysis of how we

[0:48:53] Voice 4: handle LTC projects and budgeting projects in light of the the discussions which were I think

[0:49:00] Voice 4: contextualized really well earlier by the CAO and that it's intertwined with that whole discussion

[0:49:09] Voice 4: and I'm wondering about minimizing if you're removing it or targeting what's in this policy

[0:49:15] Voice 4: to be specific more specific about tax requisitions and flagging this topic and this

[0:49:24] Voice 4: suggestion for to be part of the planning services review and that the part of that

[0:49:30] Voice 4: that deals with projects and project budgeting and maybe i

[0:49:38] Voice 4: i mean i'm leaving that to dangle for i

[0:49:40] Voice 4: guess uh trustees uh or staff to comment on any

[0:49:45] Trustee Grove: thoughts from anybody uh i've got deb morrison

[0:49:50] Trustee Grove: has a hand up a cao did you want to respond i'll go after i'll go after peter

[0:49:55] Voice 8: luckham has his hand

[0:49:56] Voice 8: up to okay

[0:49:58] Trustee Grove: okay well deb you were first so

[0:50:01] Voice 17: um i'm trying to understand the specifics of dan's

[0:50:07] Voice 17: interpretation that this may and potentially staff interpretation that this may be beyond special

[0:50:13] Voice 17: tax requisitions given that this policy is specifically about special tax requisitions

[0:50:19] Voice 17: and that it would be contained to special tax requisitions so i'm struggling to understand

[0:50:24] Voice 17: HAB-Juliette Boone, And but what I, I do want to just name that, from my understanding, the water study, for instance, was a strategic item or it is now under the new strategic plan is an item there.

[0:50:38] Voice 17: HAB-Juliette Boone, is

[0:50:38] Voice 17: funded, even though it was more money for island than what a project will allow the way that it grew it did come back, I thought, into the trust budgeting cycle and was as a larger project under the strategic plan and so that

[0:50:53] Voice 17: And I think that that process is right, that we are doing it that way, if it is over that $5,000 cap for LTCs.

[0:51:02] Voice 17: So that's my understanding of what's happening, and I'm with it, and I'm okay for what's inside this special tax requisition, as long as it's not informing things outside its bounds.

[0:51:15] Trustee Grove: I think, CAO Rust, did you want to comment on that? And then I'm going to get to Peter Luckum.

[0:51:21] Trustee Grove: um

[0:51:22] Voice 11: yeah so at the islands trust to my understanding we have a process by which we

[0:51:29] Voice 11: indicate ltc projects small projects for ltcs we also have a strategic planning budgeting process

[0:51:37] Voice 11: so i don't know if you can see my hands here we have the small stuff and we have the big stuff

[0:51:44] Voice 11: and what we don't have is any policy in between those two things and we haven't had any policy

[0:51:51] Voice 11: for 25 years and that's for if an LTC wants to spend $50,000 there isn't to my understanding

[0:52:02] Voice 11: a prescribed process associated with that which this organization needs and we're stumbling and

[0:52:10] Voice 11: fighting our way towards getting there. I think this effort was, in essence, a piece of that. And

[0:52:17] Voice 11: it says, hey, Trust Council, if it goes over $5,000, you should consider whether it should

[0:52:23] Voice 11: be a special tax requisition, right? That would be the functional way this would work. It might

[0:52:29] Voice 11: not be. We might go, you know what, main island, here's $15,000 and away you go. But by the

[0:52:36] Voice 11: the inclusion in this policy, it makes trust, it provides an extra forbearance or an extra analysis

[0:52:41] Voice 11: level by it forces trust counsel to look at it above that $5,000 threshold. I agree it, this

[0:52:49] Voice 11: same codicil or that same thing on $5,000 should be part of, it should be replicated probably in

[0:52:55] Voice 11: another piece of policy around how LTC projects are developed. So that there's some synergy there

[0:53:01] Voice 11: and probably that work's coming, we're getting there.

[0:53:05] Voice 11: I think it's a good catch here,

[0:53:07] Voice 11: but just be aware we don't have a sophisticated way

[0:53:10] Voice 11: of figuring out how to spend $30,000 on behalf of an LTC

[0:53:14] Voice 11: other than just voting on it in March.

[0:53:18] Voice 11: And this was, I believe, was the start

[0:53:20] Voice 11: of trying to put some rigor around it,

[0:53:22] Voice 11: but whether we've communicated that well

[0:53:24] Voice 11: or is it's just a piece of that pie,

[0:53:27] Voice 11: that's why it's here and it's redlined,

[0:53:29] Voice 11: I think, just as Julia said, to get that feedback

[0:53:31] Voice 11: back and see how we can make it clearer and work for everybody thank you peter luckum yeah

[0:53:37] Trustee Luckham: you know

[0:53:38] Trustee Luckham: uh this sort of my i apologize i lost my connection so um i didn't necessarily hear the

[0:53:45] Trustee Luckham: the conclusions that are associated with dan's questions but appreciate uh the interest in this

[0:53:50] Trustee Luckham: um you know it's it it's interesting that the what i wanted to say initially was that the history

[0:53:57] Trustee Luckham: of this particular special tax requisition associated with Salisbury Island goes back

[0:54:04] Trustee Luckham: quite a ways now. And indeed, this council maybe has a lot of questions about it or certainly

[0:54:12] Trustee Luckham: doesn't have the familiarity or the history associated with it. And having this kind of a

[0:54:17] Trustee Luckham: discussion on the bylaw itself at the moment is certainly helpful. But I do think that probably

[0:54:25] Trustee Luckham: probably council needs to know more about this because the one thing that this was a big step

[0:54:31] Trustee Luckham: actually when it was introduced a number of years ago into enabling the opportunity which has been

[0:54:39] Trustee Luckham: it's one of the tools in the toolkit that hadn't been used up until at that point and it I had

[0:54:46] Trustee Luckham: thought that there might be greater consideration of this around the trust area to fund specific

[0:54:51] Trustee Luckham: specific projects, and it's never come to fruition.

[0:54:56] Trustee Luckham: I think that there is potential for this, but it obviously also opens the door to a

[0:55:03] Trustee Luckham: lot of questions about the federation.

[0:55:05] Trustee Luckham: It is a federated model where monies are pooled and allocated according to need, and there

[0:55:13] Trustee Luckham: was historically always a sort of respect associated with this island and that island

[0:55:19] Trustee Luckham: in next year or the year before or however it goes. And we're applying now some prescriptiveness

[0:55:27] Trustee Luckham: to that, which is interesting. I sort of think that we have to think about the scope and scale

[0:55:34] Trustee Luckham: of any individual project, which is indeed a discussion of council, because as Russ has said,

[0:55:39] Trustee Luckham: you know, anything that's $30,000 or more, maybe that should be a special tax requisition.

[0:55:44] Trustee Luckham: and five thousand bucks is probably so small in comparison to everything that it shouldn't be

[0:55:51] Trustee Luckham: considered in that scope but somebody has to make those decisions and pull that information together

[0:55:56] Trustee Luckham: because one of the interesting things when this got rolled out many years ago all of a sudden

[0:56:03] Trustee Luckham: which wasn't apparent at the beginning was the administrative burden and the administrative cost

[0:56:08] Trustee Luckham: cost of actually rolling this out from the actual tax requisition itself to the financial

[0:56:15] Trustee Luckham: responsibility to manage it and there was a bit of back and forth on that and so somebody needs

[0:56:22] Trustee Luckham: to determine what that magic number is that that threshold to go out and then indeed you know I

[0:56:29] Trustee Luckham: can't help but say in the I'm actually going to characterize it a little bit carefully because

[0:56:36] Trustee Luckham: Because those communities, those islands, those local trust areas that on the surface contribute a greater portion of the trust council to the trust council budget, having to go out for additional tax revenues for their communities might be a difficult process.

[0:56:56] Trustee Luckham: And so I just want to say that out loud, because I think that that's imperative.

[0:57:01] Trustee Luckham: We are a federation, and that's how the assumptions about how we fund things have been done.

[0:57:06] Trustee Luckham: In fact, I'm having the questions actually here on Thetis about the increase in taxes

[0:57:12] Trustee Luckham: associated with the bylaw enforcement, and certainly there's lots of misinformation there.

[0:57:15] Trustee Luckham: But they want to know, well, is Thetis Island contributing to that? Because we don't have

[0:57:19] Trustee Luckham: bylaw enforcement. Well, it's a federated model, and sure, there's more bylaw enforcement in some

[0:57:28] Trustee Luckham: areas than other areas because of economic opportunities, and short-term vacation rentals

[0:57:34] Trustee Luckham: is just one of them that is an additional financial burden to the organization and

[0:57:41] Trustee Luckham: everybody's paying into it. So I think there's more opportunity to learn more about the future

[0:57:47] Trustee Luckham: of this.

[0:57:48] Trustee Grove: Okay. I'm just going to intervene for a second. I'm not sure where we are going with it.

[0:57:53] Trustee Grove: I think the conversation has been extremely useful and with a great deal of value. Where do we want

[0:57:59] Trustee Grove: to go with this now question david mott is going to answer that question no

[0:58:09] Voice 1: i'm not going to answer

[0:58:10] Voice 1: that question just wanted to um just take us back a little bit this uh special tax levy obviously

[0:58:17] Voice 1: it's been in the islands trust act from day one it's always been there council has always funded

[0:58:22] Voice 1: projects it's never said no and the trust committee has never said okay i need to do a

[0:58:27] Voice 1: special tax levy I think it happened at one time and when the when that trust committee said it

[0:58:34] Voice 1: wants to do a special tax levy at the last minute council changed its mind and said they'll fund it

[0:58:38] Voice 1: so what this policy is doing it's including this in here because it's an option and this just

[0:58:45] Voice 1: provides clarity as how it will happen if it gets to that point where council says no we're not going

[0:58:51] Voice 1: to fund that project and then the trust committee can follow this guideline so it knows how to come

[0:58:57] Voice 1: back for a special tax levy. It's not saying projects over 5,000 should be special tax

[0:59:03] Voice 1: levy. It's just saying if council doesn't want to fund it, this is how it's going to

[0:59:08] Voice 1: work. So I think it's good to have this policy. We may need to refine it, maybe put a little

[0:59:14] Voice 1: bit more of an intro into it to clarify that. But that's the intent of this policy.

[0:59:21] Trustee Grove: If I may, and I actually support it. It makes sense. I think I'd increase the amount from

[0:59:26] Trustee Grove: five to ten thousand dollars but but um are we going to forward this to uh to trust council

[0:59:31] Trustee Grove: ladies and gentlemen i need to know we've got a motion before us could somebody read the motion

[0:59:36] Trustee Grove: please there's

[0:59:39] Voice 12: no motion mr chair this um is already an item going to trust council as they

[0:59:43] Trustee Grove: directed it right right right right this was sorry about that this was and there's a there's a cat

[0:59:48] Trustee Grove: staring at me it's very difficult um there's anyway um you're right this was a courtesy well

[0:59:54] Trustee Grove: it was one hell of a courtesy. We've been given the courtesy. Thank you for the early.

[1:00:00] Trustee Grove: viewing of this and i don't think there's anything for us to do except ceo rasselton

[1:00:04] Trustee Grove: is going to tell us so

[1:00:06] Voice 11: that the questions and concerns you've raised will get uh that

[1:00:10] Voice 11: conversation will happen at trust council uh and i expect you would bring those up there

[1:00:14] Voice 11: and if everyone think this is great that's fine or if it needs to be refined or contextualized

[1:00:21] Voice 11: that can happen i don't think this has to pass for the budget to go through correct julia

[1:00:29] Voice 11: She's nodding, but I can't hear her.

[1:00:31] Voice 11: Yes, she is nodding, definitely.

[1:00:33] Trustee Grove: So that conversation,

[1:00:34] Voice 11: I'm expecting that a version of this conversation will have a trust council, and we will advance this in either this form or another one.

[1:00:42] Trustee Grove: So I would like to move forward to 4.5, if that's all right with everybody.

[1:00:46] Trustee Grove: I mean, I think it's really helpful for us to have a preview of this matter so we can prepare for trust council more effectively.

[1:00:53] Trustee Grove: So 4.5, the budget 31, 38 changes since last review.

[1:01:01] Trustee Grove: Julia.

[1:01:04] Voice 12: Thanks, Mr. Chair.

[1:01:05] Voice 12: So this briefing simply highlights some of the changes

[1:01:08] Voice 12: and new activities that have taken place

[1:01:09] Voice 12: since FPC reviewed the last version of the budget,

[1:01:12] Voice 12: which was in January.

[1:01:14] Voice 12: So we have received some new grant funding

[1:01:17] Voice 12: at Islands Trust.

[1:01:19] Voice 12: We applied for a Healthy Watersheds Initiative funding

[1:01:22] Voice 12: maybe a month, a month and a half ago.

[1:01:24] Voice 12: go, we have received approval of that grant in the amount of $190,000. Some of that grant money

[1:01:30] Voice 12: will be spent in the current fiscal year, and $156,000 of that grant money has been identified

[1:01:37] Voice 12: to spend in next fiscal year, and that will fund $86,000 for a freshwater sustainability strategy,

[1:01:44] Voice 12: $45,000 for some LTC freshwater-related projects, as well as $25,000 towards the heritage

[1:01:50] Voice 12: mapping phase one project work. Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee has

[1:01:54] Voice 12: also met and passed a number of resolutions that impact the budget. First

[1:01:58] Voice 12: and foremost they've requested $75,500 for the continued work of SWPA and that

[1:02:05] Voice 12: is to be funded by special tax requisition. They have also passed two

[1:02:09] Voice 12: resolutions related to freshwater projects. There's $30,000 for a Weston

[1:02:13] Voice 12: Lake water availability climate change assessment study and $50,000 for the

[1:02:17] Voice 12: development of a strategic watershed protection plan for Salt Spring Island and those are the

[1:02:21] Voice 12: two projects that were anticipated to be funded by the Swipper Reserve monies that we've identified

[1:02:26] Voice 12: may be problematic so but those resolutions have been passed. In addition the Salt Spring Island

[1:02:35] Voice 12: Local Trust Committee has passed a project charter and a budget in principle for a housing action

[1:02:40] Voice 12: program and that's for a total of $45,000. LTC projects of this magnitude as we've just talked

[1:02:47] Voice 12: about might encompass or might constitute an enhanced level of service that reflects a unique

[1:02:53] Voice 12: demand and projects that fall into that definition should be considered for funding by a special

[1:03:00] Voice 12: property tax requisition however that particular project didn't meet the timelines for special

[1:03:05] Voice 12: property tax requisitions there those types of things are meant to come forward to council in

[1:03:09] Voice 12: December so staff have not included that amount in the draft budget however the business case for

[1:03:15] Voice 12: that work is included in the agenda package so that FPC can review and consider whether or not

[1:03:20] Voice 12: they want to recommend that Trust Council include funding for that project in the draft budget

[1:03:25] Voice 12: and we will review that business case later on in the agenda but for now that's how staff have

[1:03:32] Voice 12: treated it. So there's been an increase to staffing levels in the current version of the draft budget

[1:03:39] Voice 12: firstly the approval of the grant under the healthy watersheds initiative

[1:03:43] Voice 12: is increasing the amount of work that is planned for next year. That work of course is largely

[1:03:49] Voice 12: associated with freshwater which falls on the shoulders of our senior freshwater specialists

[1:03:53] Voice 12: and so there's been a request for some help in the way of a co-op student. So regional planning

[1:04:00] Voice 12: committee has requested that FPC include in the budget some funding for a co-op student.

[1:04:04] Voice 12: Their resolution had an $18,000 price tag for that. The actual price tag for a co-op student

[1:04:09] Voice 12: is closer to twenty thousand dollars and that's because every co-op student has the ability to

[1:04:15] Voice 12: apply for a tuition scholarship and so we include that in the budget just in case a co-op student

[1:04:21] Voice 12: applies for that and is approved. So twenty thousand dollars has been added in the budget

[1:04:24] Voice 12: for that. As well the Gabriel office is having some administrative staff challenges. There's

[1:04:30] Voice 12: lots of administrative work at the trust and so they've requested a 20% FTE admin assistant.

[1:04:35] Voice 12: assistant. We've actually already brought that staff member on board. They are an as-in-one

[1:04:39] Voice 12: staff member, which means that we only call on them when needed and there's no obligation

[1:04:43] Voice 12: to give them set hours or set salary. So about $12,000 has been added to the budget in the

[1:04:50] Voice 12: hopes that we can continue having that person on staff into next fiscal year. Staff have

[1:04:56] Voice 12: identified that there is a need for additional funds to finish up the work related to the

[1:05:01] Voice 12: website project. So there's an additional $7,000 that's been added to the budget to

[1:05:05] Voice 12: complete that work. At quarter three, staff always have a look at their projects and see

[1:05:11] Voice 12: if there's some projects that might not be complete at the end of the year. And in those

[1:05:15] Voice 12: scenarios, we take unspent monies and push them into next fiscal year. So we're seeing

[1:05:20] Voice 12: that in the two instances. The first is around stewardship education. So there's going to

[1:05:25] Voice 12: be $9,000 that will not be spent this fiscal year that Trust Programs Committee has requested

[1:05:31] Voice 12: be rolled into next fiscal year. And so we've increased the draw on surplus funds next year

[1:05:35] Voice 12: for that carryover. The policy statement amendment staff have determined that about $19,000 of money

[1:05:42] Voice 12: in the current year will remain unspent and so again we're going to be carrying that forward

[1:05:47] Voice 12: into next year's budget. The original draft of the budget thought that only $10,000 would be

[1:05:52] Voice 12: carried forward so there's about a $9,000 increase and that change has been incorporated.

[1:05:57] Voice 12: There's new CPI information for the Victoria area that became available as of December 2020

[1:06:03] Voice 12: 20 that impacts trustee remuneration and so that's been reflected in the trustee remuneration

[1:06:08] Voice 12: calculation and that's 1.1 percent the former version of the budget had CPI at 1.2 percent so

[1:06:14] Voice 12: very slight decrease there and as we all know changes to the budget any change generally affects

[1:06:20] Voice 12: the Bowen Island tax levy currently the Bowen Island tax levy is showing an increase over prior

[1:06:25] Voice 12: year of almost nine thousand dollars which is a reduction from the previous version so I know

[1:06:30] Voice 12: know there's going to be some excitement around that. And it's about a 2.92% increase over previous

[1:06:36] Voice 12: years currently. And just so this committee is aware, I have reached out to the Bowen Island CFO

[1:06:41] Voice 12: to let him know about this change. And I have forwarded him the documents that are used to

[1:06:47] Voice 12: calculate this number for review. So the current version of the draft budget has $597,000 that is

[1:06:54] Voice 12: is coming out of total accumulated surplus funds.

[1:06:58] Voice 12: The previous draft had $522,000.

[1:07:01] Voice 12: So there's a typo in the agenda package.

[1:07:03] Voice 12: It reads 633, or sorry, 336,000.

[1:07:07] Voice 12: That's a typo.

[1:07:08] Voice 12: Former draft version had 522,000 from surplus.

[1:07:13] Voice 12: So the draw on general revenue surplus fund is $363,000.

[1:07:17] Voice 12: LTC project specific reserve fund is 159,000,

[1:07:21] Voice 12: which is no change from previous budget draft.

[1:07:23] Voice 12: and a drawdown on the Swipper Reserve monies of $80,000 is included in the

[1:07:27] Voice 12: current draft and again that's to fund the two freshwater related projects on

[1:07:31] Voice 12: Salt Spring Island that are up for discussion now. So as everyone knows our

[1:07:36] Voice 12: public consultation process is complete there is a lot of pages in this agenda

[1:07:41] Voice 12: item related to that that we will be reviewing so that FPC can

[1:07:46] Voice 12: consider public feedback in making their recommendation to Trust Council on the

[1:07:50] Voice 12: budget. So our current draft budget totals just over $9 million, which is an increase of about

[1:07:57] Voice 12: $250,000 from the last draft that was reviewed by FPC. And that represents a 3.72% tax lift plus an

[1:08:06] Voice 12: additional 0.87% from non-market change factors. And the budget detail is attached to this

[1:08:14] Voice 12: document. We also review it again when we go over the budget in its totality. This briefing is

[1:08:19] Voice 12: simply to highlight changes since the last review. So I'll stop there and take questions.

[1:08:24] Trustee Grove: Thank you, Julia. That's quite a mouthful. Where to from here? My personal general observation,

[1:08:37] Trustee Grove: which and then I will shut up, is that we're looking at whatever it is, a 10% increase over

[1:08:44] Trustee Grove: last year's operating budget and a 14 percent increase over last year or the current year's

[1:08:53] Trustee Grove: forecast. I think those numbers are too big together with a 3.7 percent increase in

[1:08:58] Trustee Grove: property tax. I'm not suggesting any solutions to that but overall it's too big an ask so I'm

[1:09:06] Trustee Grove: going to open it up to the floor or we could stop at this point it's quarter to 12 and take a half

[1:09:11] Trustee Grove: half hour break. This might be a good time to have that break, whatever you'd like. And

[1:09:17] Trustee Grove: Chair Luckham, Peter Luckham, in other words, for his friends, has got his thumb firmly

[1:09:23] Trustee Grove: in the air. So is that all right? Should we break for half an hour now and then allow

[1:09:29] Trustee Grove: us to build up our strength for what is going to be rather an interesting discussion? Good.

[1:09:34] Trustee Grove: So it's quarter to 12. Come back at quarter past 12. Could the sign on the screen please

[1:09:40] Trustee Grove: please say we will be back at quarter past 12.

[1:09:45] Trustee Grove: Thank you.

[1:09:48] Trustee Grove: Everyone's gone very quiet.

[1:35:37] Trustee Grove: Big day.

[1:35:39] Trustee Grove: God, you should have a hat on with all that sunshine over it.

[1:35:42] Voice 11: I know.

[1:35:44] Voice 11: I should have a hat on all the time.

[1:35:48] Voice 11: But that's for different reasons.

[1:35:50] Voice 11: Yes, indeed.

[1:35:53] Voice 11: So now we're on to the meat of it.

[1:35:55] Trustee Grove: We are.

[1:35:57] Trustee Grove: We are indeed.

[1:35:59] Trustee Grove: Maybe we could make some very quick decisions now.

[1:36:02] Voice 11: Well, we shall see.

[1:36:07] Voice 11: You know, it's interesting what local government,

[1:36:12] Voice 11: different local governments are doing.

[1:36:13] Voice 11: i mean a year ago as the pandemic unfolded it was you know constrict constrict but

[1:36:18] Voice 11: you know it's more of a mixed bag now yeah you know summer you know we don't do infrastructure

[1:36:25] Voice 11: work obviously but some are taking that route um there's some more grant funding that's coming in

[1:36:31] Voice 11: so that lifts tax requisitions and um or just the budgets and certainly we're seeing you know the

[1:36:37] Voice 11: reason why i have such a big budget a lot of it is half a million dollars of it is grant money right

[1:36:41] Voice 11: Right. New grant.

[1:36:42] Trustee Grove: Well, we need to make that point because that's a special case money, really.

[1:36:48] Voice 11: Well, yeah, it's we've never had a year like this that I'm aware of with this much money flowing into the conservancy and their work.

[1:36:59] Voice 11: The freshwater thing for thirty thousand, the one hundred and eighty thousand for the other freshwater initiative.

[1:37:07] Trustee Grove: So what's adding up to what, half a million dollars?

[1:37:10] Trustee Grove: mm

[1:37:11] Voice 11: -hmm i mean julia has a pretty good handle on that and i think she references it in her report

[1:37:15] Voice 11: but uh no it's it's significant and then i didn't

[1:37:19] Trustee Grove: understand and i was going to call you actually

[1:37:22] Trustee Grove: we've got a couple of minutes here um in terms of presentation i mean i have a problem saying to

[1:37:28] Trustee Grove: people you know we have a nine million plus budget when a large portion of that is from

[1:37:34] Trustee Grove: grant money and on projects which we wouldn't do if it went for the grant money and somehow they

[1:37:39] Trustee Grove: should be separated and i don't know how to do that i've

[1:37:46] Voice 8: been suggesting some kind of balance

[1:37:48] Voice 8: sheet approach because the other part that's not in here is all the capital by that i mean the

[1:37:53] Voice 8: natural capital that the islands trust conservancy collects you know there's millions uh in nature

[1:37:59] Voice 8: reserves in assessed value yeah nations and all that stuff and it's not you

[1:38:04] Voice 8: know yeah certainly

[1:38:06] Voice 11: there's some um work going on out there in local government the guy in gibson's the ceo there put

[1:38:12] Voice 8: in

[1:38:13] Voice 11: a natural step process where they're starting to fact you know granted they have a lot of hard

[1:38:18] Voice 11: water and sewer services that lend themselves that natural services approach but we don't we don't

[1:38:23] Voice 11: touch that right now um you know it could be something at some point that we i don't actually

[1:38:28] Voice 8: mean that i just mean the actual nature reserve properties and the assessed values of those that

[1:38:36] Voice 8: you can find on bcassessment.ca oh right it

[1:38:39] Voice 8: was in it was in our um uh claire put it into our

[1:38:43] Voice 8: budget consultation yeah

[1:38:47] Voice 11: yeah

[1:38:48] Voice 6: we did reference it it's 19 million dollars so yeah how much

[1:38:54] Voice 6: 19 million and

[1:38:56] Voice 19: that's all held by the conservancy yep

[1:38:59] Voice 6: okay so then when we shut you down we'll

[1:39:01] Voice 19: liquidate all that and we'll have our budget for three years for

[1:39:05] Voice 11: just two years

[1:39:07] Voice 8: all i'm saying is that peter was talking about how our budget is expressed in that

[1:39:13] Voice 8: the revenue these grant revenues are not very visible and uh and i'm saying neither are the

[1:39:19] Voice 8: the capital side of it which is the the nature reserves that we fundraise for and the point that

[1:39:25] Voice 8: none of that is acquired through tax dollars some of the things i think would help people

[1:39:32] Voice 8: understand better.

[1:39:34] Trustee Grove: You guys

[1:39:39] Trustee Luckham: of course realize that this whole conversation over lunch is

[1:39:41] Trustee Luckham: recorded and being live streamed. Good.

[1:39:44] Trustee Grove: We've said nothing that we're ashamed of. It's quarter past

[1:39:48] Trustee Grove: 12 and I will call the meeting back to order. I hope you all had a delightful lunch. I sat in the

[1:39:53] Trustee Grove: the sun and and got a serious sunburn um so um anyhow on on we go we're at 4.5 we've um we're

[1:40:03] Trustee Grove: at the point of discussing the um revisions to the draft budget and um so over to uh julia did

[1:40:12] Trustee Grove: you have anything else you wanted to add at this point i

[1:40:15] Voice 2: did not good

[1:40:17] Trustee Grove: so it's um over to the floor

[1:40:19] Trustee Grove: as to how you want to deal with it um yes dad rogers well

[1:40:26] Voice 19: not mr chair i have a number of

[1:40:27] Voice 19: questions, but I know that we have a more fulsome budget presentation after the feedback, so I

[1:40:37] Voice 19: wonder whether it'd be more appropriate for me to leave those questions and comments for that

[1:40:44] Voice 19: period rather than here. I take some direction from you, but that's my intention.

[1:40:50] Trustee Grove: Well, if I may,

[1:40:52] Trustee Grove: I actually like the idea of that. We've talked about revisions, or at least Julia's reported to

[1:40:58] Trustee Grove: us on the revisions, and we could look at the feedback briefly, but then I think it's 4.7

[1:41:07] Trustee Grove: with the budget recommendations to trust council where the meat and potatoes lie. What do you all

[1:41:14] Trustee Grove: think okay so i'm going to take it that we received um the uh julia's um report on the

[1:41:24] Trustee Grove: changes since the last review we've done that so we'll move to 4.6 which is consultation with

[1:41:29] Trustee Grove: feedback a briefing from is it julia or who's going to be doing that i

[1:41:35] Voice 11: think it's claire freighter

[1:41:36] Voice 11: joins us there

[1:41:38] Trustee Grove: you go i see you in

[1:41:39] Trustee Grove: front of the rocks over to you claire we can't hear you you're

[1:41:49] Trustee Grove: you're hooked up. There you go.

[1:41:52] Voice 18: Thank you Chair Grof. Coming to you today from

[1:41:55] Voice 18: Masonic Territory and happy to let you know that we had great results to the

[1:41:59] Voice 18: budget consultation process. We had a record 941 respondents to the survey who

[1:42:05] Voice 18: took an average of 9.5 minutes to share their thoughts. So I would suggest that

[1:42:09] Voice 18: that's a high level of engagement around the proposed budget. Oh 929, sorry we've

[1:42:15] Voice 18: gotten a survey here. So with regard to that, you have all of the feedback included in your agenda

[1:42:20] Voice 18: package today, which is quite substantive. And just wanted to highlight for you that there appears to

[1:42:25] Voice 18: be support for keeping taxes the same. Respondents were generally split on whether you had sort of

[1:42:32] Voice 18: 21% saying they wanted taxes increased and 20% saying they wanted taxes decreased. And in general,

[1:42:38] Voice 18: I would just note that you had great response from the Gambier Island Local Trust area, a big shout

[1:42:43] Voice 18: out to that area that really had a strong level of response and also just wanted to note that in

[1:42:50] Voice 18: reviewing the results we still appear to have a great deal of respondents who are unclear as to

[1:42:54] Voice 18: the Islands Trust's jurisdiction and or services offered so that continues to challenge us in terms

[1:43:00] Voice 18: of communications but despite that I feel there's a lot within this results to inform your budget

[1:43:05] Voice 18: deliberations. I'm happy to walk through the results in general in terms of the major themes

[1:43:11] Voice 18: or just turn it over for discussion and be prepared to answer questions I would rather

[1:43:16] Trustee Grove: you did the latter please so

[1:43:18] Voice 18: I'm happy to walk you through some highlights I'm just wanting to

[1:43:22] Voice 18: let you know um there were a couple mistakes in the briefing that we'll be fixing before it goes

[1:43:25] Voice 18: to trust council on page 40 we noted um that um uh an answer had been transposed so the um

[1:43:35] Voice 18: the 144 actually represent 17.43 percent of respondents and those respondents would like

[1:43:41] Voice 18: to keep taxes the same but decrease spendings in some areas while increasing spending in others.

[1:43:47] Voice 18: So just wanted to let you know that that will be corrected as will the percentages reflected

[1:43:52] Voice 18: in questions four and five in the survey itself on pages 66 and 69 which we had juxtaposed the

[1:43:59] Voice 18: percentages and they should read 83% of those who participated in the survey. So that'll be

[1:44:04] Voice 18: fixed before it goes to Trust Council. In terms of highlights for the budget surveys, as I noted

[1:44:10] Voice 18: there is support for keeping taxes the same. A majority of the respondents to the Salt Spring

[1:44:15] Voice 18: Island tax requisition question indicated that they expressed support for the requisition

[1:44:20] Voice 18: but also that they felt that $75,500 might be too much. We had a majority of respondents who wanted

[1:44:27] Voice 18: funds for local planning services and long-term planning funding to generally stay the same,

[1:44:33] Voice 18: although we noted that that did not appear to be support for reducing application processing times.

[1:44:39] Voice 18: We did note to ourselves that we might adjust this question next year as it remained open for

[1:44:44] Voice 18: all participants when it was intended to only be open for participants that answered that they

[1:44:48] Voice 18: supported increased funding, which might have resulted in some difficult to understand

[1:44:52] Voice 18: interpretations to the answers. Also, a majority of respondents wanted funding for bylaw enforcement

[1:45:00] Voice 18: and bylaw compliance and enforcement and regional programs to stay the same or decrease,

[1:45:05] Voice 18: and a majority of respondents wanted funding for the Conservancy to stay the same or increase.

[1:45:12] Voice 18: And finally, the most popular climate actions were the freshwater sustainability strategy,

[1:45:17] Voice 18: groundwater mapping and the water budget project, stewardship education,

[1:45:21] Voice 18: policy statement updating and climate change indicators.

[1:45:26] Voice 18: So those were the highlights that I noted running through the results.

[1:45:29] Voice 18: Of course, different people might pull other nuances, but I'd be happy to answer any questions.

[1:45:33] Voice 18: questions.

[1:45:37] Trustee Grove: Kate Louise.

[1:45:41] Voice 6: Thanks, Claire, for this. It's amazing what you can do when you browbeat

[1:45:49] Voice 6: Gambier Islanders into answering a questionnaire. Is there a possibility of pulling out,

[1:45:58] Voice 6: without looking at names, but pulling out island by island to see if there's trends?

[1:46:02] Voice 6: I can see that because we got a large response that we could work with some of our projects on

[1:46:09] Voice 6: a local level but also recognize that some of the the responses that I know for sure were from

[1:46:16] Voice 6: Gambier need to be dealt with on a different level that they're not related to Islands Trust

[1:46:22] Voice 6: and another thing that I didn't do the the questionnaire myself but is there a really

[1:46:30] Voice 6: really clear upfront statement of the percentage of the overall rural tax that is Islands Trust

[1:46:36] Voice 6: versus other caches such as the rural the regional district because I don't think in their answers

[1:46:45] Voice 6: that I saw that people really recognize what the difference was going to make in our proposed

[1:46:52] Voice 6: increase versus what proposed increases are from other sources such as the regional district

[1:46:58] Voice 6: which for our area is going to be significant significant and there's there's no

[1:47:05] Voice 6: um combined um form of engagement so they're not going to see that until they get their

[1:47:13] Voice 6: their rural tax uh in in july um and i think they're just looking at us as overall tax

[1:47:20] Voice 6: rather than what our role is is approximately for our area about 15 percent of their their

[1:47:26] Voice 6: rural tax bill?

[1:47:30] Voice 18: So through the chair, I'm happy to answer those questions. So with regard to the

[1:47:34] Voice 18: first, can we give you a subset of the budget survey breakdown? I believe we can break that

[1:47:39] Voice 18: down. We'll just have to take some time at staff to do that and review for privacy concerns.

[1:47:45] Voice 18: So as we narrow the respondents, we just need to make sure that people can't be identified.

[1:47:49] Voice 18: But certainly that could be something we could offer to local trustees to have a look at,

[1:47:52] Voice 18: I would think. Might take us a little while just as we get through some of the more other

[1:47:57] Voice 18: engagements we've got going on right now but yes we could offer that um with regard to the

[1:48:02] Voice 18: rural property tax notice no we did not um offer any analysis um of course it would be different

[1:48:07] Voice 18: in every regional district in terms of the proportion that our is just taxes i have been

[1:48:12] Voice 18: working with director mobs to assess whether we can communicate in future budget in consultations

[1:48:18] Voice 18: um the uh percent or the amount um to be allocated per hundred thousand of assessed value um she has

[1:48:26] Voice 18: confirmed that we cannot communicate in that way she's been working with provincial staff to see

[1:48:30] Voice 18: if we could indeed do that and the answer i think turns out to be no because we thought that might

[1:48:34] Voice 18: also be a helpful way to discuss we could probably let people know for historical but not for the

[1:48:39] Voice 18: proposed budget so i hope those two answers are satisfactory yes

[1:48:45] Voice 19: dan rogers i'll just um

[1:48:49] Voice 19: mention the sunshine coast regional district most recent communication did exactly that

[1:48:55] Voice 19: um they said here's what the average assessed value per five hundred thousand dollars is per

[1:49:02] Voice 19: household so i'm surprised to hear that we can't that we may not be able to do that um so that's

[1:49:09] Voice 19: interesting just because i don't know we just got a a publication from them and they did it they did

[1:49:15] Voice 19: exactly that analysis so people would understand so anyway it's interesting yeah my understanding

[1:49:22] Voice 18: it is our situation is different because that we the province requisitions our taxes so i understand

[1:49:27] Voice 18: that we're in a different circumstance but i would have to have director mobs answer any specifics

[1:49:31] Voice 18: there yeah

[1:49:32] Voice 19: so can i can i just make a couple of comments again thank you for this it's amazing

[1:49:37] Voice 19: how we've gone from 89 respondents to over 900 in less than three years um which is great but

[1:49:46] Voice 19: I mean, it is great. And I would say that there's a lot of familiarity to the survey responses from prior years. There's a certain percentage that thinks that the trust is a useless organization and should be done away with. And there's about the same percentage this year as there is every year.

[1:50:05] Voice 19: there's those that think that we're great but we don't do nearly enough and that those those that

[1:50:11] Voice 19: are generally satisfied the one trend that i saw that would have been absent and it's not surprising

[1:50:17] Voice 19: is how many people said um you know what we're hurting with covid we really can't handle an

[1:50:26] Voice 19: increase because you know we've we've been we've been slammed by the the by covid and and please

[1:50:33] Voice 19: least take that into account when you're setting your budget so that was just a message that i saw

[1:50:37] Voice 19: repeated a number of times in the commentary that was different this year and not surprisingly

[1:50:43] Voice 19: because you know we're going to 12 months into a pandemic um almost 12 11 months well 12 really

[1:50:51] Voice 19: but anyway but that was that was the only thing that i saw that was otherwise most of the

[1:50:57] Voice 19: commentary had a familiar ring to it from years gone by. You know, obviously some differences,

[1:51:05] Voice 19: and also an emphasis on we got to do something about affordable housing. There seemed to be more

[1:51:11] Voice 19: of that. So those are two trends that I saw that I think might be worth, well, I don't want to tell

[1:51:18] Voice 19: you how to write your briefing, but might be worth highlighting. But I don't know if other people saw

[1:51:21] Voice 19: those trends as well.

[1:51:25] Trustee Grove: Laura Bushekin and then Laura Patrick and then Sue Ellen. Yeah just

[1:51:31] Voice 4: following up on that it is you know it's great that we are getting more and more participation

[1:51:38] Voice 4: in this. It makes it a lot more just work to to go through it and I was saying just in the

[1:51:47] Voice 4: casual chat before the meeting that it it sounded quite an intense experience reading all the

[1:51:53] Voice 4: comments and i mean and to be brutally honest it was more like skimming because there's a great

[1:51:58] Voice 4: deal of them and they they vary and then there's you know ones where people talk about the fire

[1:52:04] Voice 4: department and you know other unrelated things and um it's um it's quite overwhelming um but

[1:52:14] Voice 4: great so it's just sort of something to think about in future is what are the you know of the

[1:52:19] Voice 4: the software we use what um in terms of creating a bit more of a summary between the very brief

[1:52:28] Voice 4: summary and the bullet points there's like five of them versus reading the whole thing maybe we

[1:52:34] Voice 4: need something else that's a little bit more of a targeted analysis to help us assuming that that

[1:52:40] Voice 4: input will continue to grow and i i i hope it does because it's it's um it's interesting um

[1:52:47] Voice 4: So that's one comment. And then the other comment and, you know, maybe it isn't even for this agenda item is, in spite of this being my sixth, I think, year on FPC, I'm still needing to ask, we've gotten all this input.

[1:53:04] Voice 4: put if we want to change the budget at this point in response to it how and when and what's the

[1:53:14] Voice 4: process because it is hard this late in the um in the budget process to say well wait a minute like

[1:53:21] Voice 4: there isn't a lot of support for more bylaw enforcement there is a lot of concern about

[1:53:27] Voice 4: about housing. There is support to increase funding for conservation. There does seem to

[1:53:35] Voice 4: be a lot of comments about making sure OCPs and LUVs are up to date. You know, if we wanted to

[1:53:43] Voice 4: change something to actually be listening to this, would I just put a motion on the floor? That's

[1:53:49] Voice 4: probably a question for maybe Julia or even Russ. I don't know.

[1:53:56] Trustee Grove: Russ, would you like to answer that?

[1:53:58] Trustee Grove: and then I got to Sue Ellen and then Bev Morrison.

[1:54:05] Voice 11: Well, I think that is exactly it.

[1:54:08] Voice 11: This is more than a learning opportunity for constituents.

[1:54:13] Voice 11: This is a prescribed requirement that we consult on the budget

[1:54:18] Voice 11: prior to the budget under the Local Government Act

[1:54:20] Voice 11: and the Community Charter.

[1:54:21] Voice 11: So there is a requirement to have this,

[1:54:25] Voice 11: and there has to be a variant of the budget out there

[1:54:28] Voice 11: for them to take a look at.

[1:54:30] Voice 11: So we're, it's, it's not the last budget, but it's the closest one we've had before, which is coming out of September, is a, you know, a fairly good, you know, fairly robust analysis has occurred already, or coming out of December, excuse me.

[1:54:47] Voice 11: so um yes i mean i think that having read that um or read this feedback uh you you would be if you

[1:54:56] Voice 11: wanted to reflect specific things you would have to come to the table here and then come to the

[1:55:01] Voice 11: table at trust council with some remedies um and it just gives us another illustration of the

[1:55:07] Voice 11: challenge with the trust of course because we've got so many structures across the um it's different

[1:55:12] Voice 11: than i mean this municipal municipal version of this conversation which would maybe be a

[1:55:18] Voice 11: little more linear you're having to take so many different things and then compress them one

[1:55:21] Voice 11: through through into this budget and i i under acknowledge that that's a challenge but it's

[1:55:27] Voice 11: between this moment and march 31st that you have an opportunity to put something on the floor for

[1:55:33] Voice 11: your other trustees to consider sorry

[1:55:36] Trustee Grove: laura patrick was on the list over to you laura yeah

[1:55:39] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, I thought you were going to forget the Laura team, our two-part entity.

[1:55:45] Trustee Patrick: Thanks again for the report.

[1:55:47] Trustee Patrick: And I think it's great, but we also are missing a very important piece of data that we have

[1:55:51] Trustee Patrick: to keep in mind looking at this, and that is the significant increase in appetite to

[1:55:58] Trustee Patrick: move into our regions.

[1:56:00] Trustee Patrick: It is increasing.

[1:56:02] Trustee Patrick: I thought it couldn't be possible to get even higher, but real estate is going insane and

[1:56:09] Trustee Patrick: only getting worse by the day so i think we have to factor in the pressure that we're facing in

[1:56:16] Trustee Patrick: and on our programs as well as the speedback thank

[1:56:21] Trustee Grove: you sue ellen fast thank

[1:56:26] Voice 8: you chair grove yeah i

[1:56:27] Voice 8: just had a couple of quite well one's a question for claire um when i was looking at the input

[1:56:34] Voice 8: about the uh should local planning services be increased i wonder if you couldn't take

[1:56:40] Voice 8: the bowen people out of that because there's ongoing confusion were the bone people included

[1:56:46] Voice 8: in that or can okay

[1:56:48] Voice 18: no no we had already uh people that identified primarily with bone were not

[1:56:52] Voice 18: offered up the planning questions great thank

[1:56:55] Voice 8: you and uh just for clarification that's good to know

[1:56:57] Voice 8: and the second thing i just wanted to say with regard to uh kate louise's question about the one

[1:57:03] Voice 8: One about showing the Islands Trust property taxes is that after next year,

[1:57:11] Voice 8: oops, I didn't turn myself view on, if we do this tax notice,

[1:57:15] Voice 8: we'll be able to show them the one from the previous year, right,

[1:57:18] Voice 8: which will have the little 1% or whatever it will be, 2%, 3% out of the whole tax bill.

[1:57:25] Voice 8: So that might help.

[1:57:26] Voice 8: Anyway, those are my comments.

[1:57:28] Voice 8: And thank you about the themes.

[1:57:31] Voice 8: I'd forgotten to look for them.

[1:57:32] Voice 8: Great.

[1:57:33] Voice 8: Thank

[1:57:34] Trustee Grove: you.

[1:57:36] Voice 17: So I heard something, and correct me if I'm wrong, Clara, but I heard that bylaw enforcement, that there was a, in your summary, that there was a indication in the survey for not support for increasing it or actually support for decreasing it. Is that what you said?

[1:57:56] Voice 18: Yes. So the answer or the chart will be on page 101 of your agenda.

[1:58:00] Voice 17: Yeah, I see it there and I read it differently.

[1:58:02] Voice 17: so I

[1:58:03] Voice 18: said there seemed to be primary support for it staying the same or decreasing as opposed to

[1:58:08] Voice 18: an increase okay

[1:58:09] Voice 17: so I just want to be careful how we say that because like if we look at the numbers

[1:58:14] Voice 17: for all those that would either increase or stay the same it's significant support for either it

[1:58:19] Voice 17: staying the same or increasing right I take your point there yeah because the way you said it it

[1:58:26] Voice 17: almost sounded like people would support it decreasing but overall the numbers are actually

[1:58:29] Voice 17: much higher for it staying the same earnings that's fair thank you okay and then one other

[1:58:34] Voice 17: um piece on that to laura beshakin's question earlier comment earlier about our next steps

[1:58:39] Voice 17: of like if we change this like if we do edits to the budget based on this the way i look at this

[1:58:45] Voice 17: type of data at this point in a budgeting cycle is two different ways one it informs what we would do

[1:58:51] Voice 17: as we plan through this year into next year's budget and two is that it informs the way we're

[1:58:58] Voice 17: communicating with our populations so um in terms of the way we're communicating like for instance

[1:59:04] Voice 17: those vital enforcement numbers to me the fact that we do have a you know 214 folks of all the

[1:59:09] Voice 17: respondents there that said decreases in vital enforcement that possibly means that we're making

[1:59:13] Voice 17: impacts on north pender with all our vital enforcement and we're totally bugging people

[1:59:17] Voice 17: which i'm like sorry all the people i've even forced on but um but it also like it's so i think

[1:59:23] Voice 17: communicating that and like as part of our budget review process next year it will be helpful for me

[1:59:30] Voice 17: to hang on to these numbers and to say you know there was a lot of people that weren't that happy

[1:59:33] Voice 17: about bio enforcement last year so if you have an opinion speak up right and it'll help me like get

[1:59:39] Voice 17: more people involved in the conversation because like three to one the community conversation here

[1:59:44] Voice 17: is about more bio enforcement better but i need people to say that on the survey right and so um

[1:59:51] Voice 17: That will help kind of get people out, so to speak.

[1:59:54] Voice 17: And then also like in terms of other options that we have to use this information to inform.

[2:00:00] Voice 17: our work is about like how is it that we're communicating about what the purpose of the

[2:00:05] Voice 17: trust is to the point that there's a whole bunch of stuff in here that are not the trust business

[2:00:09] Voice 17: right so like what is it that we can communicate and maybe there's a nice graphic that eventually

[2:00:14] Voice 17: gets added into the new website that's like here's the stuff that's the trust and here's the crd or

[2:00:19] Voice 17: other regional district stuff you know here's their number go off yeah

[2:00:23] Voice 11: like

[2:00:23] Voice 17: that kind of move

[2:00:25] Voice 17: Yeah,

[2:00:25] Voice 11: we've got, Claire's planned that.

[2:00:27] Voice 11: That's coming.

[2:00:28] Voice 17: I know.

[2:00:29] Voice 17: So yeah, thank you.

[2:00:31] Voice 17: And just a shout out to Claire and her whole team.

[2:00:34] Voice 17: This was an enormous amount of work.

[2:00:36] Voice 17: And to all the trustees who propagated this

[2:00:38] Voice 17: in their communities, awesome.

[2:00:41] Trustee Grove: Thank you.

[2:00:41] Trustee Grove: I'm going to put Tahira on the speaker.

[2:00:44] Trustee Grove: And then I would like to say a couple of things, if I may.

[2:00:47] Trustee Grove: I'm hoping that our trust council chair, Peter Luckham,

[2:00:52] Trustee Grove: hasn't fallen down to the bottom of the sea.

[2:00:54] Trustee Grove: all I see is an anemone but um oh he's there thank god for that okay um Tahira um

[2:01:02] Voice 5: yeah I want to

[2:01:03] Voice 5: thank the staff for the great survey also I was just um kind of in agreement with uh trustee

[2:01:08] Voice 5: Morrison that this is a good way to inform our work as we do go through the next year and I think

[2:01:15] Voice 5: in in shouldn't be treated as gospel in a sense it's 929 respondents um lots of them were angry

[2:01:22] Voice 5: at the province or at COPS in general. So I think it's important to just take in the information

[2:01:29] Voice 5: and just help us make our decisions throughout the year. So thank you for those comments.

[2:01:36] Trustee Grove: So if I may take a broader view of this, here's where we're at. I think we have this draft budget

[2:01:45] Trustee Grove: before us and we have to make some decisions as to where we're going to go. As I said earlier,

[2:01:50] Trustee Grove: I'm embarrassed, quite frankly, to ask the community for a 3.7% increase in property

[2:01:56] Trustee Grove: taxes. I understand, Laura Patrick, you can confirm, I think the CRD, our CRD, it's a 1%

[2:02:04] Trustee Grove: increase they're looking at in their expenses, I seem to recall. Anyway, having said that,

[2:02:11] Trustee Grove: Bowen Island, I was checking with them yesterday, I think their overall increase is 6.5%,

[2:02:19] Trustee Grove: But that includes

[2:02:21] Voice 16: all

[2:02:23] Trustee Grove: the municipal activities, which we don't do so it's difficult to compare.

[2:02:27] Trustee Grove: Anyway, so, I mean looking at the overall budget and the vast majority of, oh sorry, a general comment.

[2:02:38] Trustee Grove: Grants and such have increased by close to $400,000 from last year. That does not include the provincial grant of 180 because that's standard every year.

[2:02:48] Trustee Grove: So embedded in this budget are expenses of about $400,000 for which we are getting covered by grants and which we would not have been incurring if it weren't for those grants.

[2:03:00] Trustee Grove: So I do feel that that kind of affects our overall picture and actually makes it better, but I don't know how to make it look better.

[2:03:09] Trustee Grove: But there is a, I have a concern about that.

[2:03:13] Trustee Grove: Bearing in mind that the majority of our expenses are payroll, over which we have little control,

[2:03:19] Trustee Grove: and Russ Hortzenfeller wants to say something.

[2:03:21] Trustee Grove: Russ, go ahead.

[2:03:22] Trustee Grove: When

[2:03:22] Voice 11: you're finished, sir.

[2:03:24] Trustee Grove: Well, I hope I will one day.

[2:03:28] Trustee Grove: So basically, therefore, we're looking at strategic plan projects.

[2:03:32] Trustee Grove: projects. And back to our earlier chestnut, we have the SWPA requisition of $75,000. If we're

[2:03:41] Trustee Grove: not going to be allowed to use the surpluses in SWPA for operating, then quite frankly,

[2:03:47] Trustee Grove: we don't need to raise any money for SWPA this year. We have enough in the reserve. And I can

[2:03:51] Trustee Grove: see Laura Patrick is about to, she's fallen off her chair now. It wasn't that bad. But if we can't

[2:04:00] Trustee Grove: use the reserves um for anything else then we should be using them for operations which means

[2:04:06] Trustee Grove: we actually don't need to raise any money for swiffer this year but then we i'm just this is

[2:04:10] Trustee Grove: a bit of a stream of consciousness i believe um i have heard it said that the the finished mapping

[2:04:16] Trustee Grove: and development water budgets for groundwater aquifers of fifty thousand dollars i'm i believe

[2:04:22] Trustee Grove: that's a stretch i think i have heard that um the the this governance management operational review

[2:04:28] Trustee Grove: of 75 000 i'm wondering if this is the right year for that bearing in mind our financial reality and

[2:04:34] Trustee Grove: coded um but that's uh and so we need to trim this budget i think in a fairly significant way and um

[2:04:44] Trustee Grove: so i'm looking for ideas from you as to where this can be done um and cao russ watson bella

[2:04:50] Trustee Grove: was going to say something

[2:04:51] Voice 11: so mr chair are we on 4

[2:04:53] Voice 11: .7 or are we still on 4.6 if we're on 4.6

[2:05:00] Voice 11: um i uh

[2:05:01] Trustee Grove: no no no sorry we're we're we're on we're on oh i beg your pardon i'm sorry i thought we

[2:05:06] Trustee Grove: were um thank you i think we're on four i'm on 4.7 but we were just we were we are just looking

[2:05:14] Trustee Grove: at the consulting feedback but i thought we'd receive the briefing and i'm eager to get going

[2:05:19] Trustee Grove: on the rest of it well

[2:05:20] Voice 11: i understand that um so i would just offer this final comment and 4.6 and

[2:05:25] Voice 11: the receipt of the budget consultation and I've heard many trustees on the committee you know

[2:05:30] Voice 11: reflect on how do we use this information but the first question I would ask is given

[2:05:35] Voice 11: the feedback is where where is the sensitivity around taxation you know that would be the number

[2:05:44] Voice 11: one consideration as we contemplate a new budget how are people feeling how does that information

[2:05:54] Voice 11: to what we're about to hit them with or provide services associated with taxation and that's when

[2:06:02] Voice 11: you would go through and grab those things to see well given COVID and given these things which are

[2:06:08] Voice 11: built into this are we in the ballpark do we need to decrease is there room for increase I think

[2:06:16] Voice 11: that would be one of the questions I just didn't hear that as a central nub before you go forward

[2:06:20] Voice 11: to the March meeting.

[2:06:21] Voice 11: So I just want to finish with that, Mr. Chair.

[2:06:24] Voice 11: Thanks.

[2:06:25] Trustee Grove: Thank you.

[2:06:26] Trustee Grove: And Bev Morrison, I think you had your hand up.

[2:06:29] Trustee Grove: And then I think we should respond to our CAO's comment.

[2:06:33] Trustee Grove: I need to know what we're going to do with that.

[2:06:36] Voice 17: I'm totally

[2:06:36] Trustee Grove: going to respond to that.

[2:06:38] Voice 17: So on page 47 and 48, I think, are the two most helpful graphics related to the question

[2:06:45] Voice 17: that um the ceo just put on our plate is like really understanding what budget principles

[2:06:51] Voice 17: are supported um and how we're making sense of if we do need if increase or decrease or whatever

[2:07:00] Voice 17: in spending the one thing i think that we are not necessarily fine-tuned enough to see in a survey

[2:07:08] Voice 17: like this and i don't correct me if i'm wrong claire but like we don't know for instance if

[2:07:14] Voice 17: the folks who are saying decreased taxes are the folks who are poor in the islands right so we

[2:07:21] Voice 17: don't have a sense of where the socioeconomic and equity issues are playing out in the data

[2:07:29] Voice 17: and so because of that we have to use a little bit of our own judgment about what we know about

[2:07:36] Voice 17: our islands to be able to understand that because well I can probably say whatever let's increase

[2:07:41] Voice 17: raise taxes and like go for us you know that's not necessarily what my community can handle

[2:07:47] Voice 17: based on what is the situation in COVID impacting the community and in terms of the current

[2:07:53] Voice 17: socioeconomic situation here so I think that's something that we have to just weigh so because

[2:07:59] Voice 17: when I look at these graphs it looks like you know 40 almost 50 percent of people say keep

[2:08:13] Voice 17: taxes the same maybe shuffle it around from bin to bin but keep it the same and then there is about

[2:08:20] Voice 17: 20 who said you could have new money um or increased taxes and about 29 that are like

[2:08:28] Voice 17: or no about 20 are decreased so they're kind of balanced um so most people are saying keep it the

[2:08:34] Voice 17: same that's that's what the data is telling us so the question is are we going to do that is that

[2:08:42] Voice 17: something that we is like based on our islands that we're going to do that's what the community

[2:08:46] Voice 17: has told us this year and that's different I think from previous years I have seen previous years with

[2:08:53] Voice 16: I

[2:08:54] Voice 17: thought a little bit higher like it's okay to increase taxes last year and I can't remember I

[2:08:58] Voice 17: have to go back and look but anyway I'm thinking about

[2:09:02] Trustee Grove: thank you and um Laura Patrick has sent us

[2:09:06] Trustee Grove: some quite interesting stats on the chat field the chair Luckham or Peter Luckham to you among

[2:09:11] Trustee Grove: your friends thank

[2:09:14] Trustee Luckham: you you know I think we want to be careful about numerous

[2:09:21] Trustee Luckham: aspects of this and I'm just going to say I think we're in the ballpark and I

[2:09:26] Trustee Luckham: think that a person's certainly there are very real circumstances around

[2:09:34] Trustee Luckham: person's financial status but I would suggest that across the spectrum there

[2:09:40] Trustee Luckham: There are those that on whether their financial status is better than mine or worse than mine

[2:09:47] Trustee Luckham: would support maintaining a status quo or continuing to preserve and protect

[2:09:55] Trustee Luckham: at whatever cost it is.

[2:09:58] Trustee Luckham: And there are certainly those that are in the opposite point of view.

[2:10:02] Trustee Luckham: And so I don't know that that's the only measure, but it's certainly worthy of consideration.

[2:10:08] Trustee Luckham: And we want to think about how it is that we can support the people that are not as well off as others in our communities. And that isn't necessarily through taxation or through our own taxation or through any other mechanisms that might be available to us directly, rather than influencing the shape and character of our communities.

[2:10:32] Trustee Luckham: I think that the this is I'm really I'm very pleased to have pushed this up to close to a

[2:10:42] Trustee Luckham: thousand responses from the small number of responses we had before it's certainly an

[2:10:47] Trustee Luckham: a good indicative trend of the interest and my question is is when people say keep it the same

[2:10:54] Trustee Luckham: You know, what I don't know is whether keep it the same means a dollar value or keep it the same in terms of cost of living increases, all of those sorts of factors.

[2:11:06] Trustee Luckham: and I think that the budget increase that we're talking about is within that framework of keeping

[2:11:13] Trustee Luckham: it the same meaning that we were delivering in similar orders of magnitude the work that we're

[2:11:20] Trustee Luckham: presently doing and trying to accomplish the important work that is necessary as is identified

[2:11:24] Trustee Luckham: also in the feedback is do the important work so I just wanted to say I think we're in the ballpark

[2:11:30] Trustee Luckham: thank

[2:11:32] Trustee Grove: you Peter that's very helpful Laura Patrick it's

[2:11:37] Trustee Patrick: it's this it's a balance on

[2:11:38] Trustee Patrick: On Salt Spring, we're facing significant issues and problems

[2:11:42] Trustee Patrick: that can only be addressed through spending money to do it.

[2:11:47] Trustee Patrick: If we don't deliver on the programs, that's the issue.

[2:11:52] Trustee Patrick: If we can't deliver and get working on these problems.

[2:11:56] Trustee Patrick: So not increasing taxes and not working on the problems

[2:12:00] Trustee Patrick: isn't going to help Islands Trust.

[2:12:02] Trustee Patrick: We have to do the work and prove we can do it.

[2:12:07] Trustee Grove: Thank you, Laura. Good point.

[2:12:08] Trustee Grove: Dan Rogers and then Peter Luckham. Actually

[2:12:14] Voice 19: Trustee Stamford was before me so I will defer

[2:12:18] Voice 19: to my my senior trustee in my area. Sorry

[2:12:20] Trustee Grove: about that I don't see okay there she is she's right

[2:12:24] Trustee Grove: down in the right hand corner.

[2:12:26] Voice 6: Yeah I think again we just reiterating that we do need to pull back

[2:12:32] Voice 6: a little bit when we look at those specific numbers remember we're dealing with about a

[2:12:37] Voice 6: 1000 people out of 25 to 30,000 that responded. When I look at the numbers, and I can only use

[2:12:46] Voice 6: my tax requisition, but my portion of Islands Trust portion is about $230 right now. I'm looking

[2:12:56] Voice 6: at an under $20 increase on that portion of my rural tax with the 3.7 that we're looking at.

[2:13:03] Voice 6: so um you know and I'm certainly not in the wealthy echelon I understand it's going to be

[2:13:11] Voice 6: different for different property um values but this is doable for me so the question for me is

[2:13:19] Voice 6: how do we make sure that it's worth it for people and once I understand that low number

[2:13:25] Voice 6: then you say okay this is what you're getting for it um I my challenge is looking at the responses

[2:13:32] Voice 6: that I know are from Gambier is they just don't get what the trust does and I

[2:13:36] Voice 6: don't know if that's partly my fault because obviously I'm doing things that

[2:13:41] Voice 6: maybe trustees don't usually do or that there's something else we can do to

[2:13:47] Voice 6: really emphasize what the trust is versus what the regional district is.

[2:13:55] Trustee Grove: Thank you. I got Peter Luckham and then Sue Ellen.

[2:13:59] Trustee Luckham: Thank you. I didn't add an

[2:14:04] Trustee Luckham: an additional remark um and it's not really in context of this but this uh note of caution uh

[2:14:10] Trustee Luckham: peter grove chair grove from your comments about the swipa and the surplus and the where that where

[2:14:17] Trustee Luckham: where the funding doesn't come from um the work that is proposed is really significantly important

[2:14:22] Trustee Luckham: and if there's going to be a any change in the the assumptions that have been made about accessing

[2:14:28] Trustee Luckham: that surplus to do that work, then SWIPA needs to have an opportunity to reflect on how it's

[2:14:34] Trustee Luckham: going to deliver on that work. Because the money

[2:14:37] Trustee Luckham: that we're spending is being used to bring in

[2:14:42] Trustee Luckham: help and support where it's necessary. And maybe they just do that themselves under the umbrella

[2:14:47] Trustee Luckham: of coordinating and working. So we want to be careful about characterizing that too much. And

[2:14:55] Trustee Luckham: And I think we need to see the results here.

[2:14:57] Trustee Luckham: I want to note on just because Trustee Stanford mentioned this is and having worked in the

[2:15:04] Trustee Luckham: information systems business most of my life, when everything is working fine, people don't

[2:15:10] Trustee Luckham: know what you do.

[2:15:11] Trustee Luckham: And I would suggest that on Thetis and maybe on Gambier that things there's not a huge

[2:15:17] Trustee Luckham: amount of development.

[2:15:18] Trustee Luckham: There's not a lot of really big problems.

[2:15:20] Trustee Luckham: And so, therefore, what we're doing is maybe not as obvious in those locations. I would say that in the more higher density population areas where the impacts are greater, the work of the Islands Trust is more relevant and much more controversial all at the same time.

[2:15:39] Trustee Grove: Thank you. I'm not sure, Dan, did you say what you wanted to say?

[2:15:43] Trustee Grove: Well,

[2:15:43] Voice 19: no, I didn't. But because the conversation is drifting into the budget, as opposed to the public feedback. So I wanted to know if that's where we were headed. I just wanted to say, I think that Trustee Morrison is right about the most relevant portion of the data, which is that half the people who were surveyed said they wanted to stay approximately the same.

[2:16:09] Voice 19: and I think we need and that's one of the things I will be taking into account as we go into our

[2:16:16] Voice 19: discussion regarding the budget. Well

[2:16:18] Trustee Grove: I'd like to I'd like to move forward it's sort of morphed

[2:16:22] Trustee Grove: naturally into the budget but before we do Sue Ellen has something to add.

[2:16:26] Voice 8: Yeah thank you Chair

[2:16:28] Voice 8: Grove I'll be quick most people have mentioned it but I think we I agree with Trustee Stamford

[2:16:35] Voice 8: it's a small amount of money and once you talk about the size of the money then you have to get

[2:16:40] Voice 8: to the services like what is the actual work and Bowen Islanders really don't know what

[2:16:46] Voice 8: the Islands Trust does so I've been working on that I'll just let people know I'm putting together

[2:16:51] Voice 8: a list of benefits of the Islands Trust to Bowen Island and I've been working with Claire

[2:16:56] Voice 8: Frader and others so just letting you know thank you. So

[2:17:00] Trustee Grove: Ellen I believe you put up an Islands

[2:17:03] Trustee Grove: trust notice board on the by the ferry is that right we

[2:17:07] Voice 8: put up a sign that says welcome to

[2:17:10] Voice 8: bowen island uh municipality within the island's trust and it has nucleola quim and qualacum and

[2:17:16] Voice 8: beautiful

[2:17:17] Trustee Grove: we we should all be doing that i'm sorry um trustee rockefeller no okay you were

[2:17:25] Trustee Grove: just waving at me is anybody else waving at me wow can we get on to the budget please which is

[2:17:30] Trustee Grove: the real meat and potatoes which is one bit that excites me we're on to page 176 i believe and um

[2:17:42] Trustee Grove: i think that uh julia mobs who's disappeared have you i think we've kind of no i guess we have to go

[2:17:52] Trustee Grove: through it um over to you julia uh

[2:17:55] Voice 12: thanks chair grove so page 176 is the budget session outline

[2:17:59] Voice 12: that is being proposed for the Trust Council budget session.

[2:18:02] Voice 12: There is two hours of time that is allocated, I believe,

[2:18:06] Voice 12: to all financial matters, including the budget.

[2:18:10] Voice 12: So the allocation of that time is outlined

[2:18:15] Voice 12: on the session outline.

[2:18:18] Voice 12: I think there might be a bit of time that's missing there

[2:18:21] Voice 12: and allocated to just sort of general financial matters,

[2:18:23] Voice 12: which would include Trust Council review

[2:18:25] Voice 12: of third quarter results, for example.

[2:18:29] Voice 12: and probably a review of the Special Property Tax Requisition Policy. So there might be less

[2:18:34] Voice 12: than two hours of time to actually debate the budget. If this committee thinks that that time

[2:18:39] Voice 12: needs to be revised, we can certainly take that feedback to Executive Committee when they're

[2:18:43] Voice 12: considering the agenda. So I open the floor for questions or feedback.

[2:18:50] Trustee Grove: That's Dan Rogers first.

[2:18:52] Voice 19: I just want to say to Trustee Bishakin, in response to a question that Trustee Bishakin

[2:18:59] Voice 19: can ask earlier is there are sort of two times now between now and adoption of the budget to

[2:19:09] Voice 19: make motions to amend the budget one is in terms of a recommendation from FPC so it's today if you

[2:19:16] Voice 19: want the FPC to recommend something but presuming that doesn't occur that the second time would be

[2:19:22] Voice 19: at the end after that it on that afternoon of the um of the of the wednesday afternoon

[2:19:29] Voice 19: um where we make motions to amend i mean it doesn't mean you because then what happens i

[2:19:34] Voice 19: think the plan would be unless i'm incorrect director mobs and i often am and you correct me

[2:19:40] Voice 19: quite gently is um that on the morning of the thursday the idea is you bring all those changes

[2:19:47] Voice 19: is if there have been any and we adopt the budget theoretically right that

[2:19:53] Voice 2: is correct right thank you

[2:19:59] Trustee Grove: okay any anybody else got any thoughts anything weighing heavily on their minds

[2:20:05] Trustee Grove: bev morrison budget

[2:20:08] Voice 17: always weighs on my mind um so and i just want to make sure i'm talking about

[2:20:14] Voice 17: this at the right time are we into the assumptions or more generally on the schedule still

[2:20:19] Voice 16: where um

[2:20:20] Voice 17: i'm good with the schedule i'm good with the schedule i'm

[2:20:26] Trustee Grove: sorry where are we what do you

[2:20:28] Trustee Grove: where did you say we are i

[2:20:31] Voice 17: have a question about assumptions but i don't think we're quite there

[2:20:35] Voice 17: yet

[2:20:35] Trustee Grove: okay we're on page 176 i guess that's how we'd better deal with it so let's move on from 176 in

[2:20:42] Trustee Grove: that case okay

[2:20:44] Voice 12: so i'll take it that uh slightly less than two hours for budget debate is deemed

[2:20:48] Voice 12: acceptable here and we can move on thanks mr. chair so page 177 is where we

[2:20:54] Voice 12: start discussion of the budget assumptions and principles document the

[2:20:58] Voice 12: document has been updated for some of the changes that have been incorporated

[2:21:03] Voice 12: into the current draft of the budget there's a few comments in there that

[2:21:07] Voice 12: were left in from the last version of the assumptions document that I'll need

[2:21:10] Voice 12: to correct one of them is in item number one fees and sales which indicates that

[2:21:15] Voice 12: recommendations coming forward from local planning committee and financial

[2:21:17] Voice 12: planning committee will be incorporated into the budget and then immediately following that there's

[2:21:22] Voice 12: a sentence to the contrary which says that review is still underway and recommendations have not

[2:21:26] Voice 12: been included so I will make sure that those comments are adjusted but that is a change to

[2:21:33] Voice 12: the assumptions for this budget originally throughout the earlier part of the budget cycle

[2:21:39] Voice 12: we were anticipating that there might be recommendations to incorporate at this time

[2:21:42] Voice 12: and at this point there's not and so fees remain at usual levels I think it's around

[2:21:47] Voice 12: $120,000 in the budget. There's been additional information added to this document relating to

[2:21:55] Voice 12: grant funding. So we do have a significant amount of grant funding in the draft budget for next

[2:22:01] Voice 12: fiscal. So an understanding of how we deal with grant funding is important for Trust Council to

[2:22:06] Voice 12: have. I've broken out the grant funding discussion by restricted grant funding and unrestricted grant

[2:22:12] Voice 12: funding. They do have different accounting treatment and so are reflected differently

[2:22:15] Voice 12: in the budget. So I've updated that for items two, three and four. No other significant updates

[2:22:25] Voice 12: until we get down to item number 17 which is planner resource allocation. So of course there

[2:22:31] Voice 12: will be some change to planner resource allocation during the implementation of the LPS review.

[2:22:36] Voice 12: So that's currently underway and of course will be impacting how planner time is allocated in

[2:22:42] Voice 12: next fiscal year so we've updated that comment um and we again leave in the comment um at number

[2:22:50] Voice 12: item number 22 which is around significant unusual circumstances just to touch base on the ongoing

[2:22:55] Voice 12: pandemic and how that is estimated to influence operations for next fiscal year uh so nothing else

[2:23:01] Voice 12: for me to say but i'm happy to take questions

[2:23:07] Trustee Grove: trustee morrison thanks

[2:23:12] Voice 17: very much for all this

[2:23:13] Voice 17: Yes, as usual. It's awesome. So two questions I think that stand out to me. So I attended the regional planning meeting, so I'm aware of assumption number one. Thanks for the invite to that space to really think about that and hear the internal conversation around that.

[2:23:33] Voice 17: It doesn't look like that is possible to incorporate into the budget this year.

[2:23:39] Voice 17: It is something that I, it's just, it's my bone and I'm not going to let it go. So we'll come

[2:23:47] Voice 17: back to that probably in June when we see the model fees bylaw and like think about how that

[2:23:52] Voice 17: plays out for the next budget planning process. So I'm hoping that next year's assumptions look

[2:23:57] Voice 17: different number one a little bit um and then number 17 um where you flag that about the

[2:24:04] Voice 17: planner resource allocation that influences the um motion or the rfd or whatever rp or whatever

[2:24:11] Voice 17: it's called um that i put forward in december doesn't it and i don't i just wanted to check

[2:24:15] Voice 17: with the cao about that like what is the plan there and do i even need to continue to bring

[2:24:20] Voice 17: that motion forward that was in december thank you very

[2:24:24] Voice 11: much uh that is an excellent question

[2:24:27] Voice 11: you know speaking frankly we have already hived off that group of staff resources who've started

[2:24:35] Voice 11: this work and to be frank it's no easy business we don't have a policy framework underneath it

[2:24:42] Voice 11: yet so we're doing it to try and get better at delivering on projects the companion piece is

[2:24:49] Voice 11: engaging with you and the rest of trust council on changing how we make decisions around

[2:24:53] Voice 11: um project work and all those kinds of things i would frankly appreciate not having an added

[2:25:01] Voice 11: requirement that that um that the resolution that was put forward by trust council supports in

[2:25:08] Voice 11: general but might be a solution before the problem is realized if that sentence makes any

[2:25:14] Voice 11: sense um we've got those four people dedicated i'd like to see how that works

[2:25:22] Voice 11: and I'm certainly amenable to increasing that group if we can we just heard from the

[2:25:28] Voice 11: from the survey that there isn't a lot of public interest in decreasing our ability to to deliver

[2:25:34] Voice 11: on applications right now so if it passed and we had to sort of add that extra person I think it

[2:25:42] Voice 11: would be just slightly premature that would be so I was in fact going to call you know David and I

[2:25:47] Voice 11: are working on that concept and um we're going to be in touch with you before we um addressed it

[2:25:53] Voice 11: coming up in the in the next uh budget because i think you're the author of that acceleration

[2:25:58] Voice 11: process uh so that's just a short answer is uh we're trying to get there we don't have enough

[2:26:04] Voice 11: information on the four uh dedicated ftes we're doing now because we've just started it and i'd

[2:26:11] Voice 11: love to just have a chance to see if it works before and

[2:26:14] Voice 17: and maybe just to follow up on that

[2:26:15] Voice 17: so just to be clear that that push to accelerate staff in that area is a solution in the short

[2:26:24] Voice 17: term that i see to the fact that planning fees are not covering their costs there's a triangle here

[2:26:31] Voice 17: of things between 1 and 17. so because one is our fees aren't currently reflecting the cost

[2:26:37] Voice 17: of applications in a way that i'm comfortable with i'm happy to move staff across into more

[2:26:43] Voice 17: regional planning to like shift some of those those costs that's why i put that motion forward

[2:26:48] Voice 17: in conversation with you and david originally so and so that that's and i totally understand that

[2:26:55] Voice 17: and i'm happy to see that things are moving in that direction i'll be super happy to see

[2:26:59] Voice 17: the new fees bylaws too to try and resolve this tension that i'm feeling so thank you

[2:27:03] Voice 11: duly noted

[2:27:10] Trustee Grove: okay where are we dan over to you just

[2:27:15] Voice 19: want to make sure that conversation is finished because

[2:27:17] Voice 19: I have some other things to raise and if we're happy with that conversation. I just wanted to

[2:27:21] Voice 19: point out a couple things with the assumptions. First of all, thank you for this and I noticed

[2:27:27] Voice 19: how they have morphed over the years and appropriately so. If you're looking at

[2:27:33] Voice 19: provincial grant funding restricted, I think you're missing one, which is the big water

[2:27:39] Voice 19: sustainability grant isn't listed there, the $180,000. I don't know if you intended to miss

[2:27:46] Voice 19: it but it's not in there that i can see unless i missed it okay so that's an assumption i think you

[2:27:52] Voice 19: need to add um uh

[2:27:55] Voice 2: the

[2:27:57] Voice 19: other thing i wanted to say was um if we go down to 16 the second paragraph

[2:28:10] Voice 19: you know maybe i haven't been paying enough attention um over the years i've never i've

[2:28:15] Voice 19: never cottoned on to that assumption before and i would say that is not a correct assumption

[2:28:21] Voice 19: i don't think that there's any evidence that that uh that i have ever seen or there's no

[2:28:27] Voice 19: policy that that is the case it may work out and depends how you define long term

[2:28:33] Voice 19: um but it i just don't know that that is an assumption that i could could say could ever

[2:28:40] Voice 19: find a way to justify that and I'm not sure why it's there to be honest and the

[2:28:48] Voice 19: last one is just wanted to I guess it'll depend on what we do today but number

[2:28:57] Voice 19: 19 you may have to amend that depending on how we get to the surplus discussion

[2:29:01] Voice 19: at the end of the day today because you're assuming we're going to change

[2:29:07] Voice 19: something today but I maybe you want I just like that thank you so

[2:29:15] Trustee Grove: what are we

[2:29:16] Trustee Grove: going to do with those your your point about 16 is well shaken I mean I noted

[2:29:22] Trustee Grove: that from that's been there as far as I remember and it kind of makes sense to

[2:29:27] Trustee Grove: me and if we ever had to start carving up the budget in a more detailed way

[2:29:32] Trustee Grove: that's probably the way we might consider doing it and so it's there as a

[2:29:36] Trustee Grove: a fallback position, I think. Julia, what do you think?

[2:29:41] Voice 12: So I'd have to connect with Director Marler

[2:29:43] Voice 12: to understand if there's a change in how LTC project budget will be allocated. The lump sum

[2:29:51] Voice 12: that is applied to LTC projects does get allocated out to the different local trust committees,

[2:29:56] Voice 12: and you would see that on your local trust committee financial reports.

[2:30:00] Voice 12: I believe those are allocated in this way based on the relative percentage of assessed value.

[2:30:08] Voice 12: So I will double check that and make sure that that comment is accurate before it heads to council.

[2:30:13] Voice 19: Sorry. Sorry. What did you just say? What gets allocated out in our.

[2:30:17] Voice 12: There are certain spending that does get allocated out to LTCs in the buried breakdown of the budget based on assessed value within that trust area.

[2:30:27] Voice 12: and um so i will check that um that actually meets the criteria and i will make sure that

[2:30:31] Voice 12: that comment is accurate before it heads to council yeah

[2:30:34] Voice 19: because i would just say when it

[2:30:35] Voice 19: talks about ocps etc and project budgets i have never had a conversation that said in six years

[2:30:44] Voice 19: at least at my level and maybe i've missed some which said oh your assessed value is x therefore

[2:30:49] Voice 19: you get what you get x in percentage of the of the planning budget that's just never been a

[2:30:56] Voice 19: consideration as far as i can tell so

[2:31:00] Trustee Grove: laura boucher oh sorry david you want to address that

[2:31:04] Trustee Grove: and then laura boucher can uh

[2:31:06] Voice 1: yes thank you in the uh historically uh it is considered on the

[2:31:13] Voice 1: balance of the um the demands of the the local trust committees with respect to the populations

[2:31:18] Voice 1: so what i mean by that is we have the three offices the planners are actually are allocated

[2:31:25] Voice 1: according to the population of the islands.

[2:31:30] Voice 1: So for example,

[2:31:31] Voice 1: Denman and Hornby get fairly similar amount

[2:31:34] Voice 1: of planner time assigned to them.

[2:31:36] Voice 1: And this includes projects.

[2:31:38] Voice 1: And Leskeeto would get less.

[2:31:40] Voice 1: Salt Spring has its own office

[2:31:42] Voice 1: because it's roughly a third of the budget.

[2:31:46] Voice 1: So it is done, that is historically.

[2:31:49] Voice 1: It does say over the long term.

[2:31:51] Voice 1: So any one year,

[2:31:52] Voice 1: it's obviously going to be out of balance

[2:31:54] Voice 1: for a variety of reasons, but it's supposed to balance out over a longer period of time.

[2:31:59] Voice 1: That is the current way. We don't have any policy to change that. There's nothing to

[2:32:06] Voice 1: give us any other direction, but that's where we're heading with the LPS renewal,

[2:32:11] Voice 1: is to have a look at this and say is there a better way to do this,

[2:32:17] Voice 1: something that would just work better, and that's what we're looking for

[2:32:21] Voice 1: this year is to have that discussion and come up with something. So for now there's nothing else

[2:32:27] Voice 1: to put in here other than what we've already already done just continue that.

[2:32:32] Trustee Grove: I got Laura

[2:32:33] Trustee Grove: Bushekin and then Peter Luckham.

[2:32:36] Voice 4: Thank you Director Marlowe that was part of what I was

[2:32:41] Voice 4: going to say or ask about and the especially the piece about looking at populations because that's

[2:32:47] Voice 4: but I've always understood and maybe that I'm a little bit nervous about having this paragraph

[2:32:55] Voice 4: in here that has to do with assessed value when I'm I'm have experienced and I'm hearing that

[2:33:01] Voice 4: that is not how we've been doing it that it is looking at population and I I'd like to have that

[2:33:06] Voice 4: removed or qualified because I think looking at assessed value is very different and

[2:33:11] Voice 4: And, you know, to me, there's a lot of complexity if we're going to be looking at, you know, resources being tied to assessed value.

[2:33:26] Voice 4: Because, for instance, you know, it would be more like a municipality where, in fact, development could be seen as bringing wealth to the island because it will drive up assessed values.

[2:33:39] Voice 4: and then we'll get more resources, taxes will go up.

[2:33:43] Voice 4: And so it can seem like a pro development thing

[2:33:46] Voice 4: but also because we're a federation,

[2:33:49] Voice 4: some islands due to their geography and demographics

[2:33:53] Voice 4: have bigger, more expensive homes

[2:33:58] Voice 4: and more expensive properties and assessed value goes up.

[2:34:01] Voice 4: And I think that we're actually trying to spread the wealth

[2:34:07] Voice 4: somewhat throughout the whole region.

[2:34:09] Voice 4: so i would like this one sentence or two cent one sentence um tied more closely to the actual

[2:34:17] Voice 4: practice i believe uh is by population and yes this needs to be part of the the discussion

[2:34:23] Voice 4: uh that's tied to the lps renewal

[2:34:26] Trustee Grove: please welcome and then kate louise yeah

[2:34:31] Trustee Luckham: thank you chair um you

[2:34:33] Trustee Luckham: know it it's it's kind of interesting i i think i followed dan's uh concerns here and that there's

[2:34:41] Trustee Luckham: There's a bit of a departure from what we've said before, and there is maybe a difference

[2:34:48] Trustee Luckham: between what we said and how we behaved.

[2:34:51] Trustee Luckham: To some extent, we did that whole analysis on what percentage of the budget goes to where,

[2:34:59] Trustee Luckham: and I think actually the numbers that came through did reflect the population number

[2:35:08] Trustee Luckham: number rather than an assessed value but i'm just concerned about this you know it sort of comes

[2:35:14] Trustee Luckham: back to my uh remarks earlier about us being a federation and i think that that realistically

[2:35:22] Trustee Luckham: actually the reason we're we're created as a federation so very long ago now was to distribute

[2:35:28] Trustee Luckham: the wealth and so i think we can't not i don't i don't think we can ignore that there are islands

[2:35:36] Trustee Luckham: Islands with smaller populations have less ability or resources to do the work that is necessary to preserve and protect this area as part of the Islands Trust, whereas the more populated areas and greater assessed values might have a greater ability, but the responsibility lies to protect the entire area.

[2:35:56] Trustee Luckham: So I just want to throw that in, in thinking about the equitability of preserving and protecting

[2:36:05] Trustee Luckham: the entire trust area through the taxation revenues that we secure.

[2:36:11] Trustee Luckham: And it's a bit of a conceptual departure for me to start thinking about it in very prescriptive

[2:36:19] Trustee Luckham: terms, which I think is the language maybe that's changed there, if it has changed, is

[2:36:26] Trustee Luckham: is maybe more of that nature

[2:36:28] Trustee Luckham: and would want us to reflect upon that carefully.

[2:36:30] Trustee Luckham: That's all, thank you.

[2:36:35] Trustee Grove: Sue Ellen.

[2:36:36] Voice 8: Just letting people know that in the chat,

[2:36:38] Voice 8: I posted the link to the allocated financial statements

[2:36:42] Voice 8: that go across by LTC.

[2:36:44] Voice 8: So you can kind of see how it was allocated just for data.

[2:36:47] Voice 8: If anybody wants to.

[2:36:53] Trustee Grove: Russ, you had your hand up.

[2:36:54] Voice 11: When you look at the allocated financial statements,

[2:36:57] Voice 11: I mean, we're hung here

[2:36:58] Voice 11: and and you probably want to get on to substantive parts of the budget uh certainly understand the

[2:37:03] Voice 11: conversation there are net three producers at the allen's trust and net eight receivers

[2:37:12] Voice 11: eight or nine receivers so though this this sentence exists um it is it is not and cannot

[2:37:22] Voice 11: not be followed to its um extremely logical conclusion of assessed value because there's

[2:37:29] Voice 11: only three or four uh three or four trust committees essentially our trust areas fund

[2:37:35] Voice 11: the the work um on a broader scale i as the administrator would look and see we i have

[2:37:46] Voice 11: I would have to understand the reality of Salt Spring Island and the needs that are required there vis-a-vis the needs of an island that's got very, very low population and less need for land regulation necessarily there.

[2:38:03] Voice 11: so only in its broadest terms, and it could be population could be another way to express it.

[2:38:09] Voice 11: We can certainly build this question, this hasn't been deeply applied on a serious basis.

[2:38:18] Voice 11: I know the allocated financial statements are always fascinating when we run into them,

[2:38:23] Voice 11: so I don't know whether we can reflect on this and build it into the renewal.

[2:38:28] Voice 11: I don't know if you want to replace it with another concept right now without some

[2:38:33] Voice 11: discussion there but certainly seeing your interest it's got um our interest um in how it's

[2:38:39] Voice 11: um how that could play out that statement uh

[2:38:45] Trustee Grove: yes kate louise i

[2:38:48] Voice 6: yeah i don't want to belabor

[2:38:49] Voice 6: too much here but an example is just how trustee bushekin outlined denman's scenario

[2:38:57] Voice 6: um the keats gambier is in the exact opposite scenario where large and fairly highly assessed

[2:39:04] Voice 6: possessed properties very small population technically but because of our huge recreational

[2:39:10] Voice 6: population that pay the same taxes as full-timers we are in the opposite scenario so I really hope

[2:39:21] Voice 6: that we can work on a more fine-tuned assumption on that and and recognize that I don't see that

[2:39:30] Voice 6: it has been applied there must be something else that's going on because we're getting level of

[2:39:36] Voice 6: service commensurate with a larger population possibly.

[2:39:41] Trustee Grove: If I may I mean if I had my brothers

[2:39:45] Trustee Grove: I would remove that paragraph altogether having said that I think in planning the local planning

[2:39:50] Trustee Grove: services and planning how to distribute the work I mean it needs to have some kind of

[2:39:55] Trustee Grove: of a guide as to how it should be done.

[2:39:59] Trustee Grove: I think this conversation should take place next year.

[2:40:03] Trustee Grove: I mean, I think, you know, after this year end,

[2:40:06] Trustee Grove: I think it's a useful conversation,

[2:40:07] Trustee Grove: but I don't think we're gonna resolve it now.

[2:40:09] Trustee Grove: But although Peter Luckham says we're going to,

[2:40:11] Trustee Grove: over to you, Peter.

[2:40:14] Trustee Luckham: Well, it's interesting conceptually, right?

[2:40:17] Trustee Luckham: That we're developing a budget.

[2:40:20] Trustee Luckham: This is the, I love this document actually,

[2:40:23] Trustee Luckham: actually, whatever we call it now, principles and assumptions, because it's the basis upon

[2:40:30] Trustee Luckham: which we agree we will raise monies to do the work that we're doing. And so if we're not going

[2:40:39] Trustee Luckham: to discuss this now, then we should actually fall back to the previous version of it, because we're

[2:40:44] Trustee Luckham: not in agreement with this new version of it. And the way I'm seeing it is it has changed from last

[2:40:51] Trustee Luckham: year then we should actually fall back to the previous principles and assumptions if we're not

[2:40:55] Trustee Luckham: agreed upon those principles assumptions because you're going to be asking council to agree on

[2:40:59] Trustee Luckham: this and then that uh and the budget will be adopted some subject to the assumption of the

[2:41:09] Trustee Luckham: principles and assumptions so um i would suggest that the obviously the broad brush approach would

[2:41:16] Trustee Luckham: be to eliminate that paragraph um the slightly less broad brush might be something along the

[2:41:21] Trustee Luckham: lines of the ocp and ltc project budgets will be uh allocate allocated equitably

[2:41:29] Trustee Luckham: and leave it at that because i think that is the essence of what people think that the federation

[2:41:35] Trustee Luckham: will equitably distribute the resources to all of the islands in a fair basis my two cents

[2:41:44] Trustee Luckham: I

[2:41:45] Trustee Grove: I would support that except I think equitably means different things to different people

[2:41:51] Trustee Grove: I think fairly is it the fairly is the word to uh and then who decides what fairly is but

[2:41:56] Trustee Grove: nevertheless at least it's there it's not ignored as

[2:42:00] Trustee Luckham: you wish so

[2:42:04] Trustee Grove: do you want to make that motion

[2:42:09] Trustee Grove: can't hear you

[2:42:10] Trustee Luckham: certainly if there's support for it I would move that and principles and

[2:42:15] Trustee Luckham: assumptions item 16 the second paragraph be replaced with the words ocps and ltc projects

[2:42:23] Trustee Luckham: project budgets will be fairly uh distributed across the trust area i'll

[2:42:32] Voice 8: second that because

[2:42:33] Voice 8: i think we've lost dan rogers oh dear i'll second it good

[2:42:40] Trustee Grove: um do you wish to speak any further to

[2:42:43] Trustee Grove: your motion Mr. Luckum.

[2:42:45] Trustee Luckham: I've spoken far too much thanks

[2:42:48] Trustee Grove: no no it's fine um okay uh so any any

[2:42:58] Trustee Grove: further discussion it's been motion may even not trustee Bushekin has something to say go ahead

[2:43:04] Trustee Grove: very

[2:43:04] Voice 4: briefly because I might just be repeating myself I will vote in favor or speak in favor

[2:43:09] Voice 4: of the motion I think although it's more vague it is more accurate because the fact is we are

[2:43:14] Voice 4: a little bit, it is very complicated and we don't have it worked out and at least we'll be a little

[2:43:20] Voice 4: more reflective of that. And I don't want to wait a year to talk about it. And I will make sure

[2:43:27] Voice 4: that this becomes part of the discussion

[2:43:29] Trustee Grove: at

[2:43:30] Voice 4: APC and elsewhere.

[2:43:31] Voice 4: Good.

[2:43:32] Trustee Grove: And so I will therefore call the question. All those in favor? Contrary? 100% in favor.

[2:43:42] Trustee Grove: favor. Thank you. So let us move on. Well done, everybody. So that was the assumptions

[2:43:52] Trustee Grove: and principles. Anything more on assumptions and principles? Julia, I'm passing this over

[2:43:57] Trustee Grove: to you again.

[2:43:59] Voice 12: No, sir. Nothing for me on this.

[2:44:01] Voice 12: Chair Grove? Yes.

[2:44:08] Voice 17: So I vote in favor of that motion and I'm happy to have it passed with that understanding

[2:44:13] Voice 17: that this is, you know, we're always moving toward a better process and a more data informed

[2:44:17] Voice 17: informed process and that my expectation is in next year we'll have a better set of assumptions

[2:44:21] Voice 17: when it comes to number one okay

[2:44:23] Trustee Grove: sounds like a good plan to me but i think we've and peter

[2:44:27] Trustee Grove: larkin is either agreeing or he wants to speak well

[2:44:31] Trustee Luckham: i just want to really support that notion

[2:44:33] Trustee Luckham: because as i said earlier i love this document because it sets out the guidelines for us to

[2:44:37] Trustee Luckham: make financial decisions and we need to invest more time in into it and you know typically it

[2:44:44] Trustee Luckham: actually hasn't my from my perspective received the uh respect that it should because i think

[2:44:49] Trustee Luckham: it's a significant it

[2:44:50] Trustee Grove: does deserve respect so we're turning to page 184 budget overview and

[2:44:56] Trustee Grove: highlights a briefing from our favorite i'll

[2:44:59] Voice 12: maybe just quickly change my mind on having

[2:45:01] Voice 12: nothing else to say mr chair if i may um just on that one particular note i notice um the current

[2:45:07] Voice 12: comment speaks to the long term the um motion that was passed is not but i do think uh long

[2:45:13] Voice 12: long-term is probably important to keep in there. It's very difficult to actually make that a

[2:45:18] Voice 12: realization in a single fiscal year. And currently our process for funding LTC projects is not

[2:45:26] Voice 12: actually based on an even allocation between local trust committees. We have the lump sum and

[2:45:32] Voice 12: throughout the year, local trust committees apply to use some of that money. So, you know, if we

[2:45:39] Voice 12: we want to be really be changing that we also need a change in process um and i would lean into

[2:45:46] Voice 12: director marler for his comments on that as well i'm

[2:45:51] Voice 1: sure through the chair yeah as i said the

[2:45:54] Voice 1: planet resources are allocated by the rpms based on their you know the populations of the trust

[2:46:00] Voice 1: committees and then each trust committee has uh you know three top priorities and we try to do at

[2:46:06] Voice 1: least one for each of them so the number of projects and the scale of the project tends

[2:46:11] Voice 1: to be balanced somewhat over the long term and then the budget would follow out um you know with

[2:46:17] Voice 1: the the resources available from staff so if we have the staff available there'll be a budget to

[2:46:22] Voice 1: support that staff person to do the work for the particular local trust committee so while the

[2:46:28] Voice 1: pool is not allocated specifically according to the allocation

[2:46:33] Voice 1: in practice it tends to fall out that way just given how we allocate our planner resources

[2:46:41] Voice 1: but I think going forward as I said we need to work to make some changes to how that works

[2:46:46] Voice 1: and I think next year we'll have a better way to do it.

[2:46:49] Trustee Grove: Good okay can we move on now please

[2:46:55] Trustee Grove: to overview and highlights Julia.

[2:47:00] Voice 12: Thanks Chair Grove so the overview and highlights of the

[2:47:04] Voice 12: current draft budget starts on page 184 so if the committee gives no direction for changes to this

[2:47:11] Voice 12: draft budget this will become the recommended budget by financial planning committee to trust

[2:47:16] Voice 12: council the first part of the briefing that starts on page 184 there's a chart that simply speaks to

[2:47:24] Voice 12: what activities have taken place over the last few months in the budget cycle to create and inform

[2:47:28] Voice 12: the draft budget of course what's highlighted in there is that financial planning committee

[2:47:32] Voice 12: at this time has reviewed the budget four or five times before it goes to Trust Council,

[2:47:37] Voice 12: so that's substantial. Moving on to page 186, we have a high-level summary comparison of the budget

[2:47:46] Voice 12: to last year's budget, or I guess the previous approved budget, as well as a comparison to the

[2:47:51] Voice 12: current year forecast. So when we compare the current draft of the budget to the previous

[2:47:55] Voice 12: year's approved budget, we see that there's a 10% increase in spending, or approximately $850,000

[2:48:02] Voice 12: dollar increase. That does include the increase that's associated with amortization which as we

[2:48:07] Voice 12: know is a non-cash expense and is an item that the Islands Trust does not requisition for. So when we

[2:48:13] Voice 12: remove the impact of amortization we're looking at a $775,000 increase over last year's approved

[2:48:19] Voice 12: budget. When we compare the current draft budget to the current year forecast or our estimated

[2:48:25] Voice 12: actuals we see an overall budget increase of 14 percent or 1.14 million dollars. Again removing

[2:48:31] Voice 12: that amortization factor, we see an increase of still 14% when it's rounded, but down to $1.1

[2:48:39] Voice 12: million. So the major contributing factors to that increase are highlighted in the bulleted

[2:48:44] Voice 12: list that starts on page 186. Very significantly, we do have a number of expenses that are funded

[2:48:51] Voice 12: by specific grants. So $383,000 of the $1.1 million increase is funded by external grant

[2:48:58] Voice 12: funding. We have an $87,000 increase for LTC projects, and the main driver there is the

[2:49:04] Voice 12: Salt Spring Island Ganges Village project. That's valued at about $93,000. There's an increase of

[2:49:11] Voice 12: $80,000 funded for Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee projects currently planned to come out

[2:49:16] Voice 12: of the SWPA Reserve Fund. An increase of $78,000 related to amortization, as mentioned before,

[2:49:21] Voice 12: non-cash item will not impact taxation levels. There's an increase of around $432,000 associated

[2:49:29] Voice 12: with salaries and benefits, which is a significant number. We have, I think, six new staff positions

[2:49:34] Voice 12: in the draft budget, as well as the standard annual increases that we see for union staff,

[2:49:40] Voice 12: as well as excluded staff. About $110,000 of the increase in salaries does have specific grant

[2:49:46] Voice 12: funding specifically for the Islands Trust Conservancy Species at Risk staff positions.

[2:49:53] Voice 12: Insurance costs are on the rise as we know there's a $34,000 increase in the budget associated with

[2:49:59] Voice 12: that. Our legal costs also on the rise so we have $20,000 allocated towards those rising costs or

[2:50:05] Voice 12: an increase of $20,000 my apologies. There's an increase of $162,000 associated with strategic

[2:50:11] Voice 12: plan projects so there there is a fair number of strategic plan projects that have funding in next

[2:50:16] Voice 12: year's budget, $116,000 of those projects do have their own external grant funding.

[2:50:24] Voice 12: And as well, there's an increase in $33,000 related to information services and that's mainly

[2:50:29] Voice 12: due to how software is being delivered in the market, which just changes how it is accounted

[2:50:35] Voice 12: for. So it's just an accounting exercise that drives that number up.

[2:50:39] Trustee Grove: Julia, can you stop there

[2:50:41] Trustee Grove: for a second? Yes,

[2:50:42] Trustee Grove: sir. I think to my mind that is probably the most important paragraph in the

[2:50:47] Trustee Grove: the entire report so I'm just wondering at this point does anybody have any questions or comments

[2:50:51] Trustee Grove: I would like to make one if I may rather than saying six new staff positions could you also

[2:51:00] Trustee Grove: translate that into FTEs because I didn't think we have six new FTEs in this in this budget is

[2:51:07] Trustee Grove: that right uh

[2:51:09] Voice 12: that's correct some of them are part-time so yes that's a good distinction

[2:51:15] Trustee Grove: Laura Bushekin Yeah,

[2:51:17] Voice 4: and I have a question, because I read that and didn't actually follow up, but does that include the summer co-op? I think there's one or two new summer co-op positions, definitely one for water. Is that included in the new staff position?

[2:51:33] Voice 4: Yes.

[2:51:34] Voice 4: Yes.

[2:51:36] Voice 4: Yeah,

[2:51:36] Voice 16: it would be good

[2:51:37] Voice 4: to know which ones are long-term, full-time, part-time, permanent versus, you know, a one-off summer co-op position.

[2:51:47] Trustee Grove: And that's what the FTE does, Laura.

[2:51:49] Trustee Grove: Peter Luckham.

[2:51:51] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, that FTE, I think, is an important distinction. But also, at least one or more

[2:52:02] Trustee Luckham: of those positions or portions of those positions are also going to be funded through grant revenues.

[2:52:08] Trustee Luckham: And I think that's important to identify. I agree. Because if you put that in a press release

[2:52:13] Trustee Luckham: that we're hiring six new people, that'd be a problem.

[2:52:18] Trustee Grove: That's right. Houston.

[2:52:20] Trustee Grove: quite right thank you um laura to clarify

[2:52:24] Voice 4: yeah yes it is covered by fte but there's a difference

[2:52:27] Voice 4: between a summer fte someone who's full-time as a summer co-op student and an ongoing position and

[2:52:35] Voice 4: i don't know what the language is to capture that but i think yes again if this is going out as a

[2:52:39] Voice 4: press release and uh being seen by by um by others who haven't poured over the documents the way we

[2:52:47] Voice 4: have it's good to have that info yeah

[2:52:49] Trustee Grove: thank you I think Julia's got that message um so let's press

[2:52:53] Trustee Grove: on Julia uh

[2:52:55] Voice 12: sure I'll just respond very briefly to some of those comments um we do indicate later

[2:52:59] Voice 12: on in the material which new staff positions are co-ops which are permanent positions which are

[2:53:05] Voice 12: temporary positions um as well as FTEs so I can bring more of that information forward to this

[2:53:11] Voice 12: section I'm seeing nods from the committee that that would be good to do

[2:53:16] Voice 12: so I can do that as well as included in the later areas as far as highlighting

[2:53:22] Voice 12: which positions are funded by grants we do have that immediately after the

[2:53:28] Voice 12: increase in salaries and that same bullet there so hopefully that's enough

[2:53:32] Voice 12: information if there's a desire for increased specificity around that in

[2:53:37] Voice 12: in this particular area, I can provide it.

[2:53:41] Voice 12: Noting that there

[2:53:42] Voice 12: is more detail elsewhere.

[2:53:43] Trustee Grove: That's good.

[2:53:44] Voice 12: Okay, so I see Chair Luckham has his hand up.

[2:53:48] Trustee Grove: Chair Luckham.

[2:53:49] Trustee Luckham: I think that what Laura Beshaken is suggesting there

[2:53:53] Trustee Luckham: is actually significant in that it's base budget, right?

[2:53:58] Trustee Luckham: Which is those positions that are going to be maintained

[2:54:02] Trustee Luckham: and then additional budget, which is what the grants are.

[2:54:05] Trustee Luckham: are. And I would like to see that that number 109,000, I think it is, be indicative of how

[2:54:13] Trustee Luckham: many staff positions that is, whether they're full time or part time. Because I, I do think

[2:54:20] Trustee Luckham: that that is a significant distinction. Because hiring six new people on the surface looks like

[2:54:27] Trustee Luckham: a big increase in the

[2:54:28] Trustee Grove: staff. You're right and that's a problem.

[2:54:33] Trustee Luckham: Yeah okay

[2:54:36] Trustee Luckham: that's not what's happening right so no

[2:54:39] Trustee Grove: no okay let's keep going.

[2:54:44] Voice 2: Okay sorry

[2:54:45] Trustee Grove: somebody I hear my sweet my voice has been called by somebody but I can't see who.

[2:54:51] Voice 19: Sorry it's it's Dan I'm having real technical problems and so I'm

[2:54:55] Voice 19: on the phone now and I don't

[2:54:57] Voice 19: don't

[2:54:57] Trustee Grove: know if you

[2:54:57] Voice 19: can see me you probably can't i keep getting booted

[2:55:00] Trustee Grove: off we don't want it we

[2:55:02] Trustee Grove: don't want you booted off so you'd better just speak up when you want to speak sorry

[2:55:06] Voice 19: i anyway

[2:55:07] Voice 19: i called back in anyway uh i just feel a little curious about this section because it seems to

[2:55:14] Voice 19: be a mix of things funded from surplus and operational things that you you've identified

[2:55:20] Voice 19: in here yet there are things missing from here on the list and i just like for example

[2:55:26] Voice 19: For example, the $75,000 for the governance review isn't listed there, but I think it should be, and wondered why you chose some things and not others.

[2:55:41] Voice 12: So that actually was something that came up earlier when we were reviewing this package that that governance review was missing.

[2:55:48] Voice 12: So that was simply an oversight. When I'm looking at what to highlight in this particular section, I'm simply looking at the main drivers for increases in the year.

[2:55:59] Voice 12: So typically that's the largest dollar increases. The governance review should have been listed. That was simply an oversight.

[2:56:06] Voice 12: I'll make sure that that's amended before this heads to council. But, you know, this is simply a summary section of, hey, we have one point one million dollar increase.

[2:56:14] Voice 12: increase, these are some main drivers. And then we get into the further detail, the nuts

[2:56:19] Voice 12: and bolts of the budget, which highlights more detail.

[2:56:22] Trustee Grove: But you know, it's the bulleted items that get people's attention. The rest of it is

[2:56:27] Trustee Grove: like the fine print, and many of us don't read the fine print. So really, really important

[2:56:32] Trustee Grove: to capture it in these bullets here.

[2:56:38] Voice 12: And I certainly will add the governance

[2:56:40] Voice 12: review there. Thank you for that.

[2:56:44] Trustee Grove: Okay, press on, Julia.

[2:56:46] Trustee Grove: yeah okay

[2:56:46] Voice 12: thank you page 187 continuing on with the uh main overview and highlights of the budget

[2:56:53] Voice 12: so this is where we do get into more detail on why things are changing and what's included in

[2:56:58] Voice 12: the draft budget so on an overall basis um the budget is providing for a 4.59 increase in property

[2:57:05] Voice 12: taxes that will be collected from local trust areas excluding bowen island um 3.72 percent of

[2:57:11] Voice 12: that is an actual increase to taxes and 0.87% is expected to be collected from a new property tax

[2:57:20] Voice 12: base associated with non-market change factors. And so total property taxes increase is about

[2:57:28] Voice 12: $311,000 in this budget over last year's budget. Bowen Island Municipality continues to have their

[2:57:35] Voice 12: levy calculated under policy, standard policy, and that is $311,000. And that's a 2.9% lift over

[2:57:44] Voice 12: last year's budget. And it's expected that approximately 1.8% of that would come from

[2:57:49] Voice 12: general taxation and 1.1% would be generated from new tax base associated with non-market

[2:57:54] Voice 12: change factors. Once again, there's a resolution from the Salt Spring Island LTC seeking a special

[2:58:01] Voice 12: property tax requisition for the work of SWPA. That remains at $75,500, no change in that amount.

[2:58:09] Voice 12: As we've noted, we have a significant amount of work that's funded by external grant monies in

[2:58:14] Voice 12: next year's budget. So there's a total of $571,000 for grant work in next year's budget. Included in

[2:58:22] Voice 12: that is all grant funding. So the $180,000 unrestricted provincial grant money is included

[2:58:28] Voice 12: included in that $571,000. We do have a restricted provincial grant that's being received from

[2:58:34] Voice 12: Healthy Watersheds Initiative that I spoke to earlier. The total value of that grant

[2:58:39] Voice 12: is $190,000. As mentioned previously, a portion of that work is actually beginning in the

[2:58:44] Voice 12: current fiscal year. And so an anticipated $156,000 of that grant will be spent in next

[2:58:50] Voice 12: fiscal year. And so that amount has been budgeted as revenues with the appropriate amounts recorded

[2:58:55] Voice 12: reported in their expense line items.

[2:58:58] Voice 12: We also have federal grant monies associated with species

[2:59:02] Voice 12: at risk work with the Islands Trust Conservancy.

[2:59:06] Voice 12: $205,000 of that grant will be spent next year

[2:59:09] Voice 12: on various projects and so that's included

[2:59:11] Voice 12: in revenues as well.

[2:59:13] Voice 12: We also have $22,000 in next fiscal year

[2:59:17] Voice 12: for grants associated with wetland restoration.

[2:59:20] Voice 12: Again, that's also a grant that's been awarded

[2:59:22] Voice 12: to the Islands Trust Conservancy for their work.

[2:59:25] Voice 12: Every year we include an amount for contingent grant revenues and expenses and that's simply

[2:59:31] Voice 12: a line item to acknowledge that we may receive grants in the year that we didn't anticipate at

[2:59:35] Voice 12: budget time. We've reduced the amount in the budget for next year and it's at $8,000 and

[2:59:41] Voice 12: that's to acknowledge that we don't seem to be getting a lot of grants associated with sort of

[2:59:48] Voice 12: local trust committee work that come to us throughout the year and so it's in there at

[2:59:51] Voice 12: eight thousand dollars if we do receive more grant funds we can absolutely still

[2:59:55] Voice 12: move forward with them and we would just see an increase in revenue that's received

[3:00:00] Voice 12: the year. And to acknowledge that that is contingent revenue, there is an equal and

[3:00:06] Voice 12: offsetting expense line item for $8,000 as well. Other revenue sources are far less significant in

[3:00:14] Voice 12: next year's budget. Our fees and sales remain fairly stable at $120,000. Again, we don't have

[3:00:21] Voice 12: any recommendations coming forward from work at the Regional Planning Committee associated with

[3:00:25] Voice 12: that, and so it remains at $120,000. And investment income is reduced from previous

[3:00:31] Voice 12: fiscals again to acknowledge significantly reduced investment rates as a result of the pandemic.

[3:00:38] Voice 12: Once again we're drawing on accumulated surplus funds in the budget to fund our operations.

[3:00:44] Voice 12: There's a total of $597,000 that is expected to come out of surplus funds next year

[3:00:51] Voice 12: to fund our work. So that $597,000 is coming from three different surplus sources.

[3:00:57] Voice 12: There's $358,000 that is coming from General Revenue Surplus Fund, $159,000 that's coming

[3:01:05] Voice 12: from the Local Trust Committee, or the Local LTC Project Specific Reserve Fund, sorry,

[3:01:09] Voice 12: and a transfer of $80,000 planned draw from the SWPA Reserve Fund, and that's to fund

[3:01:17] Voice 12: the two Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee freshwater projects.

[3:01:20] Voice 12: And so Appendix B is where we see a breakdown about all funding sources from surplus broken

[3:01:26] Voice 12: broken down by project. So what will that revenue pay for? That gets us down into planned

[3:01:34] Voice 12: expenditures. That begins on page 188. No surprise, salaries and benefits remain the largest

[3:01:40] Voice 12: expenditure item for the trust. That's coming in at about $5.5 million in next year's budget.

[3:01:46] Voice 12: That's approximately $412,000 increase over the prior year budget. And again, that's associated

[3:01:52] Voice 12: with a number of new staff positions I think there's six of them they are listed on page 189

[3:01:59] Voice 12: there's a new bylaw enforcement officer that's a full-time anticipated permanent position

[3:02:03] Voice 12: there's a bylaw communication specialist that is a part-time position at 50 percent of the hour so

[3:02:09] Voice 12: 0.5 FTE we have two new staff positions for species at risk work with Islands Trust Conservancy and

[3:02:18] Voice 12: and both of those are funded by the Species at Risk grant.

[3:02:21] Voice 12: We also have a co-op student for freshwater work,

[3:02:24] Voice 12: and that's to acknowledge

[3:02:24] Voice 12: that the Healthy Watersheds Initiative grant

[3:02:27] Voice 12: has significantly increased the amount of work

[3:02:29] Voice 12: that's going to be put on the shoulders

[3:02:31] Voice 12: of our senior freshwater specialist.

[3:02:33] Voice 12: So RPC has requested that be added to the budget

[3:02:36] Voice 12: for next year to assist.

[3:02:38] Voice 12: One of the things missed from this list,

[3:02:40] Voice 12: which I will add before it goes to council,

[3:02:43] Voice 12: is the aforementioned part-time admin assistant.

[3:02:46] Voice 12: there's about $12,000 in next year's budget for that position that's an as-in-one position

[3:02:51] Voice 12: part-time temporary we only call on that staff when needed and as budget permits I did see a

[3:02:58] Voice 12: couple hands go up I can pause here for questions if the chair thinks that's a good thing to do or

[3:03:03] Voice 12: I can press on yes

[3:03:05] Trustee Grove: Sue Ellen good idea to have a break just

[3:03:08] Voice 8: a quick question I just see the word

[3:03:10] Voice 8: the number $597,000 in two places, both for the species at risk grant and the plan draw from

[3:03:19] Voice 8: surplus. I just wanted to make sure that that's accurate. I will have a look at that. Just a big

[3:03:26] Voice 8: coincidence, whatever. I just wanted to bring it to your attention. Okay, thanks. Bev Morrison

[3:03:31] Trustee Grove: and then Tahira, I believe.

[3:03:33] Voice 17: Thank you. I know this had come up sometime in the fall or maybe even

[3:03:38] Voice 17: last summer um and i just didn't know where we had landed on it um maybe the ceo can comment

[3:03:43] Voice 17: i know as we go through these budgeting processes and that we're likely to hit in the march meeting

[3:03:49] Voice 17: um a question about like what does staff do and it's not about the individual in that job it's

[3:03:55] Voice 17: about the job and understanding what what the tasks are and i didn't know if there is some

[3:04:00] Voice 17: other kind of place or direction that the trustees can go to get that knowledge so we don't have to

[3:04:05] Voice 17: to like spend all that time debating whether a particular staff like position is relevant or not

[3:04:10] Voice 17: and I it just flagged in my mind because of the freshwater specialist and the co-op student

[3:04:15] Voice 17: I agree co-op students are wonderful and that that's great blah blah I wonder in my brain

[3:04:20] Voice 17: given that I know that much of the contract work is contracted for the freshwater I don't

[3:04:26] Voice 17: understand and it's not for lack of understanding the William Shills is super bright dude I just

[3:04:30] Voice 17: don't understand what the job is and so it would be helpful for the conversation if there was

[3:04:35] Voice 17: someplace or somewhere that trustees could look just to understand better like what the jobs are

[3:04:41] Voice 17: of staff because I think that is a confusion and we often get into those kind of conversations in

[3:04:45] Voice 17: the budget narrative which are not always helpful and seem like they're about staff specifically but

[3:04:50] Voice 17: they're not they're about understanding the work of the staff I see Julia's hand

[3:04:58] Trustee Grove: okay I had Tahira

[3:05:00] Trustee Grove: who's next no

[3:05:03] Voice 5: hand raise not me no

[3:05:05] Trustee Grove: hand raise okay but Julia Marks has got a hand up

[3:05:09] Trustee Grove: Yeah,

[3:05:10] Voice 12: I'd just like to respond to Trustee Morrison. Each of these new staff positions has a funding business case in the agenda. That should be where staff are providing information on what these roles will be doing, specifically why it's needed or why staff believe it's needed.

[3:05:29] Voice 12: and if in reviewing those business cases um it's not clear like that information is not clear to

[3:05:35] Voice 12: you then absolutely we can receive direction for staff to amend those business cases to add that

[3:05:39] Voice 12: information i

[3:05:41] Voice 17: and i think julie it's not so much that the business case isn't clear because i think

[3:05:45] Voice 17: like the co-op student business case is perfectly clear it's how it fits relative to the work of the

[3:05:50] Voice 17: freshwater specialist that i think is the question that's going to be asked and that's i think we

[3:05:56] Voice 17: We don't necessarily need more paperwork in here.

[3:05:58] Voice 17: It's more like, is there a place that just can be referenced for staff to understand

[3:06:02] Voice 17: the job descriptions of others and how that all fits together?

[3:06:12] Trustee Grove: Okay, I'm not sure that needs an answer.

[3:06:17] Trustee Grove: Okay, press on, Julia.

[3:06:21] Voice 12: All right, so still looking at salaries expense.

[3:06:25] Voice 12: Nothing has changed in the standard increases associated with staff salaries.

[3:06:29] Voice 12: So we know that we've got our standard union increase of 2% every year, as well as some

[3:06:34] Voice 12: some movements in grid levels as well as increases for excluded staff. We do have a parental leave

[3:06:39] Voice 12: top-up cost next fiscal year, about $35,000, so that adds to our budget. We still have staff

[3:06:45] Voice 12: overtime costs in the budget. We've actually reduced that slightly. We did that as part of the

[3:06:50] Voice 12: FPC-directed budget reduction exercise, so we'll see if that's achievable next year with all of

[3:06:56] Voice 12: the work that we have planned. Our benefits expense remains calculated at 25.4% of salaries

[3:07:03] Voice 12: and wages. This is a figure that we normally receive from PSA by this time of year so that

[3:07:08] Voice 12: we have accurate numbers in the budget. Unfortunately, the provincial budget deadlines have been

[3:07:14] Voice 12: extended this year. And what that means is that PSA has not set the benefit rate yet

[3:07:19] Voice 12: for the Islands Trust. So I have been in touch with staff there, and they've agreed that

[3:07:24] Voice 12: using historical values to approximate benefits rate in the next fiscal year is an appropriate

[3:07:30] Voice 12: way to go. And so that's what we've done. There is a possibility that the benefit rate will be

[3:07:34] Voice 12: different to what we budget for, and that could impact our budget, either increasing it or

[3:07:40] Voice 12: decreasing it. We won't know until we get that rate. If it is going to be a budget increase and

[3:07:45] Voice 12: any sort of budget amendments are required as a result, we will be following the budget adjustment

[3:07:49] Voice 12: and control authority policy that is under Trust Council's purview. So we'll see how that plays out.

[3:07:56] Voice 12: for trustee remuneration no changes there again that's still following policy we've updated for

[3:08:02] Voice 12: CPI as indicated before it's now reflected at 1.1 percent trust council meeting expenses have

[3:08:08] Voice 12: increased so there's a 54,000 dollar amount budgeted for next fiscal year and that's to

[3:08:13] Voice 12: acknowledge two in-person meeting costs I believe the locations are Nanaimo and Victoria

[3:08:18] Voice 12: and the we've actually used historical actual costs for both of those locations to inform

[3:08:25] Voice 12: form estimates for next year's budget. Executive committee has a $3,000 budget for some in-person

[3:08:33] Voice 12: meetings. I believe they're planning to hold a lot of the meetings electronically, but this does

[3:08:37] Voice 12: allow for some in-person meetings. The rest of the council committees plan to meet fully

[3:08:41] Voice 12: electronically. So there's only a thousand dollar budget there for one planned in-person meeting of

[3:08:46] Voice 12: TPC. All staff meeting costs, staff, their internal meetings, we're planning to do those

[3:08:52] Voice 12: virtually into next fiscal year and so there's a significant reduction in the

[3:08:57] Voice 12: budgeted amount in comparison to previous years. LTC direct expenses, so

[3:09:02] Voice 12: that it basically includes everything associated with LTC meetings, community

[3:09:07] Voice 12: meetings, things like that, are at $68,000. When we looked at the third

[3:09:11] Voice 12: quarter forecast for this year we are expecting to see an underspending in

[3:09:16] Voice 12: that area, however acknowledging that there might be a change next year in how

[3:09:20] Voice 12: meetings are held and there might actually be more in-person meetings held with hall rentals

[3:09:24] Voice 12: and things like that. We've chosen not to reduce that amount from previous budget years and so

[3:09:30] Voice 12: you'll see that it is fairly consistent with what we had in previous budgets.

[3:09:35] Trustee Grove: Excuse me a second,

[3:09:36] Trustee Grove: sorry, we have four more pages of this review and I'm happy to do whatever everyone would like

[3:09:43] Trustee Grove: but it's basically Julia is very kindly telling us what it says there in writing and has anybody got

[3:09:49] Trustee Grove: any specific questions rather than going through them item by item and i don't mean to sound rude

[3:09:55] Trustee Grove: julia it's helpful but not

[3:09:56] Voice 16: at all just

[3:09:57] Trustee Grove: trying to move things along so between now and the

[3:10:02] Trustee Grove: the budget funding requests which i think are different i mean julia can carry on doing what

[3:10:07] Trustee Grove: she's doing or do you have any specific questions what would you like everybody

[3:10:13] Trustee Grove: what's that mean sue ellen let's

[3:10:15] Voice 8: move on okay

[3:10:17] Trustee Grove: so in other words if only if people have got

[3:10:19] Trustee Grove: questions we don't need to go through this page by page is that what you're saying

[3:10:24] Trustee Grove: yes yes yes good okay julia do you mind terribly and i don't want to be offensive by this

[3:10:31] Trustee Grove: i

[3:10:32] Voice 12: don't mind at all i think it's a good way to go good

[3:10:34] Trustee Grove: okay so i'm assuming there are no

[3:10:36] Trustee Grove: questions between now and the budget funding requests which starts at page 198 there is uh

[3:10:45] Voice 12: just a couple of things that i'll highlight mr chair actually as i just scroll through this

[3:10:48] Voice 12: um the strategic plan projects are highlighted in bulleted form on page 193

[3:10:55] Voice 12: three. So there's been some change to those projects and the numbers there. So the development

[3:11:01] Voice 12: of the heritage overlay mapping project is now set at $55,000. The previous budget had $30,000.

[3:11:08] Voice 12: The Islands Trust is still only funding $30,000 of that work and the other $25,000 is coming from

[3:11:14] Voice 12: the Healthy Watersheds Initiative grant money. As well, the development and implementation of

[3:11:22] Voice 12: the stewardship education program that figure has changed that's a direct result of carryover funding

[3:11:26] Voice 12: and the same is true of the policy statement amendment project that number is different from

[3:11:31] Voice 12: what you saw before and again that's simply a result of funding from the current year that's

[3:11:35] Voice 12: carrying over. I do want to highlight that at the end of creating the draft budget staff

[3:11:44] Voice 12: undertake an exercise to see where we might land with the general revenue surplus fund because we

[3:11:48] Voice 12: we do have policy that says there's a minimum value

[3:11:52] Voice 12: that must be maintained in that surplus fund.

[3:11:54] Voice 12: The current draft budget lands us in a place

[3:11:58] Voice 12: where we are significantly offside of that policy.

[3:12:01] Voice 12: So we're looking to be,

[3:12:03] Voice 12: I think it's around 85% of the recommended balance.

[3:12:07] Voice 12: So we are 15% short of what that policy says.

[3:12:12] Voice 12: If financial planning committee and trust council

[3:12:14] Voice 12: want to stay within that policy number,

[3:12:16] Voice 12: number. Amendments do need to be made to this budget to either reduce the amount of money

[3:12:21] Voice 12: that's being taken out of surplus to increase taxation or to reduce spending. Those are the

[3:12:27] Voice 12: three options that would reduce the impact to our general revenue surplus fund. If financial

[3:12:32] Voice 12: planning committee and trust council are happy to have the minimum or the general revenue surplus

[3:12:38] Voice 12: fund balance fall below policy minimum, staff will just need to receive direction to proceed that way.

[3:12:45] Voice 12: just wanted to make

[3:12:46] Voice 12: sure that was very clear.

[3:12:47] Trustee Grove: And we are looking at that policy under 5.2 later on

[3:12:51] Trustee Grove: today?

[3:12:53] Voice 12: We won't be looking at the full policy that works not complete that what's in the agenda

[3:12:58] Voice 12: today is simply a sensitivity analysis to see if we did amend the policy would we be at risk of

[3:13:05] Voice 12: running out of cash in the first quarter of the year. The full policy amendment won't be coming

[3:13:09] Voice 12: till the next meeting there wasn't time to get it done.

[3:13:11] Trustee Grove: True but I think 5.2 in our discussions will

[3:13:14] Trustee Grove: give us a pretty good idea as to what we want to do good

[3:13:18] Voice 2: okay

[3:13:22] Trustee Grove: suelen oh

[3:13:25] Voice 8: just a little typo in the

[3:13:28] Voice 8: line uh that says develop and implement a stewardship education program i think that's

[3:13:34] Voice 8: strategic plan item number 15 not 21 because 21 down lower is the secretariat function i think

[3:13:44] Voice 8: it's just a typo something to check because i was

[3:13:48] Voice 2: confused yes i'll have a look

[3:13:53] Trustee Grove: okay

[3:13:55] Trustee Grove: can we turn to um the budget uh funding request starting on page 198. mr

[3:14:07] Voice 19: chair can i make a

[3:14:08] Voice 19: comment at this point i'm sorry i'm still having technical difficulties seem to get up

[3:14:14] Voice 16: i'm on a

[3:14:14] Voice 19: phone so so um before we do this and i i just want to preface this i i wanted to make

[3:14:21] Voice 19: a general comment on as you did a little earlier mr chair about the budget and where we're at

[3:14:28] Voice 19: is um i i've been i'll say i've been somewhat sanguine about budgets for the first six years

[3:14:34] Voice 19: of my my term as a trustee and i i thought the process was fine and we were doing

[3:14:40] Voice 19: we're doing well etc i am a little concerned this year because there's sort of three things

[3:14:46] Voice 19: things occurring at the same time that raised some flags for me.

[3:14:53] Voice 19: One is we have a bigger tax increase than I proposed tax increase than I have seen as

[3:15:02] Voice 19: a trustee.

[3:15:03] Voice 19: It's not enormous compared to what I'm seeing from some regional districts like mine, but

[3:15:09] Voice 19: it is bigger than usual.

[3:15:11] Voice 19: will. Secondly, I wanted to flag that point that the director just mentioned, which is

[3:15:18] Voice 19: the proposal to draw on the surplus and take it down to below our policy, which is our current

[3:15:30] Voice 19: policy as to where it should be. It hasn't been amended yet. It's concerning to me that there's

[3:15:36] Voice 19: so much of what we're talking about is being drawn from surplus, because pretty much every

[3:15:41] Voice 19: project is being allocated out of surplus to a very large amount.

[3:15:47] Voice 19: And the third thing, I just want to flag this before we get into the discussions of the

[3:15:52] Voice 19: various business cases, is as I was reading through the business cases in the last couple

[3:15:59] Voice 19: of days, I started to wonder about capacity and who was going to do all of this work.

[3:16:05] Voice 19: because there's a whole bunch of projects in both TAS and under RPC that I don't know where

[3:16:11] Voice 19: the capacity is to do that. I think we better have a very good understanding of that before

[3:16:21] Voice 19: we recommend the budget because part of what we do here at FPC, as I understand it, is that when

[3:16:28] Voice 19: the budget lands on the Trust Council table, there's an assumption from the trustees who

[3:16:32] Voice 19: aren't on FPC that we reviewed it and basically what's being put on the table has been vetted,

[3:16:38] Voice 19: discussed and this is our recommended budget. So I think we'll need to figure out a way forward

[3:16:43] Voice 19: and I have a few concerns about specific business cases that I may want to or at least some questions

[3:16:49] Voice 19: about them and their efficacy and whether there are any things that we can set aside for this

[3:16:56] Voice 19: year so it's sort of a general comment about about this and i am not a budget hawk by any means i

[3:17:04] Voice 19: don't think i have that reputation but i i i do have some concerns this year so that's just sort

[3:17:09] Voice 19: of a general comment before we get in to the specifics fair

[3:17:12] Trustee Grove: enough thanks dan so let us um

[3:17:16] Trustee Grove: press on julia we're on page of 198 i believe um

[3:17:29] Voice 12: yeah

[3:17:30] Voice 16: there we go i

[3:17:31] Voice 12: was just getting there so

[3:17:32] Voice 12: So page 198 simply outlines the strategic plan projects that are receiving funding in

[3:17:39] Voice 12: the year, what staffing positions there are.

[3:17:42] Voice 12: And this is where we see a breakdown between permanent staff and temporary staff.

[3:17:47] Voice 12: And there's notes beside each that indicate if they are being funded by taxation or funded

[3:17:52] Voice 12: by grant monies.

[3:17:54] Voice 12: And as well, we see that all of our strategic plan projects are being funded by surplus

[3:17:59] Voice 12: plus with a few of them having external grant funding. So that does highlight that particular

[3:18:06] Voice 12: chart there related to strategic plan does highlight what Trustee Rogers was just saying

[3:18:11] Voice 12: that there is a significant draw on sort of plus again this year. I agree.

[3:18:15] Voice 12: So that's simply there

[3:18:17] Voice 12: to provide a bit of a visual and a different breakdown of some of the different things that

[3:18:23] Voice 12: are in the budget this year related to strategic plan and staffing as those tend to be areas that

[3:18:28] Voice 12: get a lot of air time at the council table.

[3:18:31] Trustee Grove: Right. So any comments on that page? Were you

[3:18:39] Trustee Grove: planning to go through these one by one? I don't think that's necessary, but I think people should

[3:18:44] Trustee Grove: have questions if they have them. Ask questions if they have them. Laura Patrick.

[3:18:51] Trustee Patrick: I know the

[3:18:52] Trustee Patrick: numbers are here, but I'm just my brain starting to fry. What is the number, what is the amount of

[3:19:00] Trustee Patrick: surplus that were overdrawn by for policy based on this current this budget in front of us um so

[3:19:10] Voice 12: we're going to be 15 short of the minimum or about 290 000 short of what the minimum recommends so

[3:19:19] Voice 12: you know it is difficult for um staff to simply present a budget um that is short of a trust

[3:19:28] Voice 12: council policy so if this is a budget that financial planning committee is comfortable

[3:19:33] Voice 12: with and feels should be the budget that council adopts next year under their recommendation I

[3:19:39] Voice 12: would be looking for specific motion on the table from this committee to looking for the budget to

[3:19:47] Voice 12: step outside of policy well

[3:19:50] Trustee Grove: um sorry trustee morrison and then our cao russ why don't you

[3:19:57] Trustee Grove: you go first because i'm sure you're going to say something really useful as opposed to us

[3:20:02] Voice 11: no that's only 50 of the time if you're challenged by what you're facing here um i think that's

[3:20:09] Voice 11: perfectly legitimate um this is slightly different than other places usually we've

[3:20:15] Voice 11: incubated the budget a few times before we get to this place there's been a a lessening of the

[3:20:21] Voice 11: amount of time to condense this material in front of you. You've got COVID as an over

[3:20:28] Voice 11: the specter in the background and you've had a lot of asks for big you know some big ticket items

[3:20:34] Voice 11: really since September, December. The six staffing positions looks alarming but it ends up being

[3:20:42] Voice 11: you know relatively modest if you look through those and they're in support of specific

[3:20:49] Voice 11: specific initiatives that that you've wanted the other challenge we've got is likely a year from

[3:20:57] Voice 11: now we're going to be right here back in the same spot and why I say that is we're budgeting

[3:21:02] Voice 11: for LTC projects like we always have you know as discrete units and we can see that we don't

[3:21:08] Voice 11: that's not accurate so that's going to be replicated again right now I think the strategic

[3:21:16] Voice 11: strategic plan items here they're carryover items I think they should be coming from surplus so I

[3:21:20] Voice 11: think that's that's okay and they're important items um and they're all in various degrees of

[3:21:27] Voice 11: maturity and what I mean by that is some fairly sophisticated maturity things have progressed

[3:21:33] Voice 11: on a lot of these um items and some of them will disappear off your off the strategic plan

[3:21:40] Voice 11: next year so I was just saying if you're it's okay to be going wow look at this thing

[3:21:47] Voice 11: this is also the only time you get to see all of this stuff come together in one place

[3:21:52] Voice 11: on paper where you have to start looking at you know is the saleable what would go what's

[3:22:00] Voice 11: you know what are some of the tough decisions to have and it's probably better that you initially

[3:22:04] Voice 11: have those conversations at fpc than to have them fully at um trust council or at least identify the

[3:22:11] Voice 11: things you really want to get into a trust council thanks mr chair thank

[3:22:15] Trustee Grove: you and i'm sorry was that

[3:22:16] Trustee Grove: you bev that wanted to speak go ahead please so

[3:22:21] Voice 17: um i think i i always tend to have this problem

[3:22:25] Voice 17: budget since probably my noviceness on understanding budgets but um so um russ you

[3:22:34] Voice 17: you just mentioned that the the surplus pieces are things that many of them are pieces that

[3:22:40] Voice 17: have rolled over from last year's budget into this coming year's budget potentially there are

[3:22:45] Voice 11: some of them for sure some

[3:22:46] Voice 17: of them okay so and some of those assumably like money from this year

[3:22:51] Voice 17: would have rolled over into the surplus with them like so they're kind of a wash so to speak okay

[3:22:57] Voice 17: so that's helpful to think about i i think when i see it presented this way i'm trying to understand

[3:23:03] Voice 17: is that money so for instance let me just pick one um like like the model land use regulations

[3:23:09] Voice 17: for instance like so develop model land use regulations um around groundwater rainwater

[3:23:14] Voice 17: all that kind of stuff yeah

[3:23:16] Voice 11: small one five thousand

[3:23:17] Voice 17: but just as an example like is that

[3:23:20] Voice 17: five thousand dollars for staff like what is that what is that five thousand dollars doing is it

[3:23:27] Voice 17: meetings is it and i guess and that's something i have to get clear in my head because when we

[3:23:32] Voice 17: talk about projects is staff time included in those or is it no and

[3:23:38] Voice 17: this money is just for

[3:23:39] Voice 17: consultants or for lawyers or

[3:23:40] Voice 11: consultants legal um in a normal world meetings um it's a it's the

[3:23:46] Voice 11: money to bring that home to the best way we can budget for it okay um you know pick a pick a

[3:23:53] Voice 11: bigger number and you get a more complex answer yeah um you know when we look at uh you know the

[3:23:58] Voice 11: secretariat function or you know we're looking at broadcasting public meetings we've got 19 000

[3:24:03] Voice 11: we now know for instance there's some complexity there we are not going to be able to continue with

[3:24:08] Voice 11: electronic meetings fully um we just got uh some information around that we are going to be

[3:24:15] Voice 11: returning to somewhat of a world that we had before and that money is needed to bridge that

[3:24:22] Voice 11: gap and have these hybrid meetings potentially so there's another example um some of these though

[3:24:28] Voice 11: So, you know, develop a set of climate change demographic environment data.

[3:24:31] Voice 11: That's our best, staff's best analysis of what we need.

[3:24:36] Voice 11: And it's in the business case, that breakdown of that $25,000.

[3:24:40] Voice 17: Okay, so that's all super, super helpful.

[3:24:43] Voice 17: And then I guess the question I have is for ones that are not in, so for items that are not rolling over,

[3:24:54] Voice 17: we're drawing from surplus because they're projects that are in the strategic plan but we don't

[3:25:02] Voice 17: necessarily have a base budget for them anywhere yeah

[3:25:06] Voice 11: i mean julia has is you know highly highly

[3:25:10] Voice 11: advanced on this but generally it's not a good practice to to have ongoing costs like salaries

[3:25:18] Voice 11: and things like that be funded by directly by surplus um so discrete items are probably more

[3:25:25] Voice 11: readily or projects are more readily funded by surplus though I expect that Julia wouldn't like

[3:25:32] Voice 11: to see a lot of that anyway it's tough as the CAO though to see 2.5 million dollars sitting there

[3:25:37] Voice 11: and then to go tax more money for something that you know we could be finishing that project off

[3:25:43] Voice 11: but you know I turned over to Julia she went off for a slightly different perspective

[3:25:47] Voice 12: yep no I'm good in you know indeed to echo what our CAO has said it's it you you don't want to

[3:25:55] Voice 12: to be funding ongoing work uh from a surplus fund um we are the islands trust tends to be in this

[3:26:04] Voice 12: system of funding strategic plan projects from surplus but every year we have strategic plan

[3:26:11] Voice 12: projects so it's actually it's not sustainable for us to be using our surplus the way that we

[3:26:17] Voice 12: currently are you know if if we have a historical practice of budgeting for large draws from

[3:26:24] Voice 12: surplus and then in reality not needing those draws from surplus and sometimes instead of

[3:26:31] Voice 12: having a planned draw there's actually a planned contribution which means our budget thinks we're

[3:26:35] Voice 12: going to draw down on surplus what happens in reality is we put money into surplus and it grows

[3:26:40] Voice 12: what we're starting to see now is we actually are starting to spend closer to our budget the current

[3:26:47] Voice 12: year the only reason we are not spending closer to our budget is because of the pandemic if next

[3:26:54] Voice 12: next year, the budget that we have set before us is realized, and we draw down on our total surplus

[3:27:00] Voice 12: funds by $597,000, there will be no surplus fund to draw on for the next budget year. So that means

[3:27:08] Voice 12: if you want to maintain your levels of operations, your levels of service, you now have to increase

[3:27:13] Voice 12: your taxes by $597,000, which is a significant amount. Or you have to find other grant funding,

[3:27:22] Voice 12: you know there is a project in the works right now to approach the province for funding I don't

[3:27:27] Voice 12: know that that's gained much traction with all else that's been going on but the way that the

[3:27:31] Voice 12: trust makes use of its surplus fund is not sustainable you know we've sort of continued

[3:27:36] Voice 12: that practice because in reality it never works out the way that we planned but we're starting

[3:27:41] Voice 12: to see a change there so I really do want to caution FPC about that simply because if we end

[3:27:47] Voice 12: up in that situation next year we will have some big decisions to make and i want everyone to be

[3:27:53] Voice 12: aware of that or

[3:27:54] Voice 11: we could reduce what we do peter luckham yes peter

[3:28:00] Trustee Grove: luckham well

[3:28:02] Trustee Luckham: on the coattails of

[3:28:03] Trustee Luckham: the ceos great words that we can reduce what we do um obviously the opposite end of that is we

[3:28:11] Trustee Luckham: could tax more and i certainly i know not anybody's in favor of doing that but um you know

[3:28:17] Trustee Luckham: i started with my hand up because i'm inclined to say um and i really thank julia of the all of her

[3:28:26] Trustee Luckham: predecessors that hinted that there was a bomb in the attic by spending the surplus money julia has

[3:28:32] Trustee Luckham: most eloquently spelled it out before us that it's not sustainable and that has been a big concern

[3:28:39] Trustee Luckham: for a number of trustees for a number of years, including myself. But the reason I put my hand

[3:28:45] Trustee Luckham: up was because of the surplus associated with the requirement to maintain it above or at a certain

[3:28:52] Trustee Luckham: level. And the reality is, and outside of the bomb in the closet, which I think is a totally

[3:29:00] Trustee Luckham: different question to the required surplus, the required surplus isn't intended to be used in the

[3:29:06] Trustee Luckham: the fashion that it is as i think i'm prepared to interpret julia has said but that's how we are

[3:29:11] Trustee Luckham: using it because it's money that's there and it's convenient um so i am inclined to um want to

[3:29:19] Trustee Luckham: reduce that below what policy says and i totally respect that staff are not going to do that

[3:29:25] Trustee Luckham: because the professional advice is this is council's policy you should stick to it and and

[3:29:31] Trustee Luckham: therefore there it is so it's up to us to make that decision and i'm on the verge of wanting to

[3:29:35] Trustee Luckham: make a motion um but i just want to remind you that we we sign a um uh uh an order every year

[3:29:43] Trustee Luckham: i pardon me for the language probably a bylaw that says if we run out of money to pay salaries

[3:29:48] Trustee Luckham: we can borrow up to a million dollars we do that every year and we've never done it and so i think

[3:29:54] Trustee Luckham: we could be a bit more uh whatever the word might be a little bit more uh

[3:29:59] Trustee Luckham: I don't know.

[3:30:00] Trustee Luckham: uh brave with that and trust that we can uh carry on and um and i would suggest that we reduce the

[3:30:08] Trustee Luckham: make the expenditures that uh that uh go up beyond what the policy prescribes

[3:30:17] Trustee Luckham: thank

[3:30:18] Trustee Grove: you if i may interject um both the vice chair paul brent and i had a brief have had a

[3:30:25] Trustee Grove: brief text messages back and forth. And we both thought that 5.2 was going to be

[3:30:33] Trustee Grove: discussed and would raise this whole matter issue of surplus amount. He and I are both comfortable

[3:30:42] Trustee Grove: at a 20% level rather than 25% level. And I suspect he was quite prepared to make that motion

[3:30:50] Trustee Grove: to reduce it to 20% and if we did that then this particular problem for this

[3:30:56] Trustee Grove: particular year would would go away we'd still have to start being more realistic

[3:31:01] Trustee Grove: about the future anyhow trustee Rockefeller is on the line

[3:31:06] Voice 5: I

[3:31:08] Trustee Grove: think you

[3:31:11] Voice 5: know whether we keep it at 25 or 20 is whatever decision but it's actually just

[3:31:16] Voice 5: up to the trustees and keeping their hands in their pockets when it comes to

[3:31:20] Voice 5: making the budget and deciding to go over it if we reduce it to 20 it just means you can't be ad

[3:31:27] Voice 5: hoc in december and chuck in 75 000 projects on the table so really we're just coordinating

[3:31:33] Voice 5: ourselves off more which is totally fine in my opinion but

[3:31:37] Trustee Grove: totally what it's totally acceptable

[3:31:40] Voice 5: we're just we're cutting ourselves off from using more funding really so it

[3:31:45] Trustee Grove: is it has always been

[3:31:46] Trustee Grove: So, Dan, over to you and Rogers.

[3:31:49] Voice 19: Yes, thanks. Can you hear me?

[3:31:52] Trustee Grove: Yes.

[3:31:53] Voice 19: Okay, thanks.

[3:31:55] Voice 19: So, I mean, I have a number of things, including some questions about some of the business case requests.

[3:32:01] Voice 19: But, you know, it's not often I disagree with the chair of the Trust Council, but I don't.

[3:32:13] Voice 19: I don't think we should sort of just say because and because what I'm hearing is oh we're going to

[3:32:20] Voice 19: reduce it below what the policy says so let's just change the policy and and I know maybe perhaps

[3:32:26] Voice 19: that's not the way it was intended however I I am not as as comfortable with simply dropping the

[3:32:34] Voice 19: reserve down to 20 percent or 15 percent or whatever when there was a concerted effort made

[3:32:42] Voice 19: however many years ago to create that and there was a lot of of effort because there was some

[3:32:47] Voice 19: substantial tax increases that occurred 10 12 15 years ago in order to build that surplus up to

[3:32:54] Voice 19: the point where it could be and it serves a whole bunch of functions not just to tide us from the

[3:33:01] Voice 19: end of march to the beginning of july but it creates a cushion for us in case there are problems

[3:33:07] Voice 19: problems that we need to address. So, for example, we are exploring trying to find a

[3:33:13] Voice 19: different way to insure ourselves through the Municipal Insurance Association. Now, that may

[3:33:19] Voice 19: work, but if it doesn't, we may want to self-insure and we're going to want a great big surplus in the

[3:33:26] Voice 19: bank in order to self-insure ourselves. And if we start to draw it down now and take it down to 1.7

[3:33:35] Voice 19: million instead of the 1.98 or whatever it's supposed to be right now you know that's another

[3:33:41] Voice 19: two hundred thousand dollars we don't have um and so i am concerned that we have been using it in

[3:33:47] Voice 19: the way and it is not sustainable and it will not be sustainable uh next year when we have this

[3:33:53] Voice 19: conversation um so i i am i have and of course we've the the projects are what we're funding and

[3:34:01] Voice 19: And to Deb's question, only a small proportion, I'd say about a quarter of the project funding for this year, not even that, a fifth of the surplus funding is projects that are being rolled over from this year.

[3:34:13] Voice 19: The rest are all new proposed projects.

[3:34:16] Voice 19: And that's on page 190.

[3:34:20] Voice 19: I can't find the page number.

[3:34:22] Voice 19: It's not on my sheet.

[3:34:23] Voice 19: Oh, I know, because I'm 197, I believe.

[3:34:28] Voice 19: So, you know, there's a problem there.

[3:34:31] Voice 19: there. So I think we need to sort of look at whether we personally, whether there are some

[3:34:36] Voice 19: of these projects that we need to rethink and defer. Now, that doesn't affect that. And by the

[3:34:44] Voice 19: way, even if we did that, that doesn't change the tax increase one iota, because all of these

[3:34:51] Voice 19: projects are coming out of reserve. And if we're uncomfortable with the tax increase, we have to

[3:34:55] Voice 19: look at operations. We have to look at salaries. We have to look at staff. We have to look at

[3:34:59] Voice 19: operations as i understand it so just so you know that that's my view and i i do have some

[3:35:06] Voice 19: specific questions about a few of the business cases and a few that i'm going to suggest that

[3:35:10] Voice 19: we defer oh

[3:35:12] Trustee Grove: thanks bev morrison then i'd like to say something then we'll press on so

[3:35:17] Voice 17: i just have

[3:35:18] Voice 17: to say dan that this is literally where i was last year and why i am on the case about the bylaw

[3:35:25] Voice 17: the fees and having permits being covered because what we're looking at for next year is potentially

[3:35:33] Voice 17: covering that gap with people who are doing development paying for it instead of us paying

[3:35:39] Voice 17: out of our our entire like population having to pay for development and again like from the

[3:35:46] Voice 17: regional planning conversation last year of course there are permits that we want to like sponsor

[3:35:51] Voice 17: and pay for because we want them done but we really have to be thinking about

[3:35:56] Voice 17: this and we could be in a different situation next year if that assumption

[3:35:59] Voice 17: number one changes where the difference between this 400,000 is literally

[3:36:04] Voice 17: recovered by permits well

[3:36:06] Trustee Grove: that's it may I suggest that we look at these projects

[3:36:09] Trustee Grove: and see what we can do now to cut them back if as we as we see fit yeah I would

[3:36:16] Voice 17: actually I would lobby I've looked at this list and I've gone through this

[3:36:20] Voice 17: multiple times I don't see where we're going to cut this year I honestly don't see given the

[3:36:25] Voice 17: climate change given everything that we've like talked about in council and strategic parties

[3:36:29] Voice 17: I see it is super problematic to cut this list at this point

[3:36:32] Trustee Grove: thank you I think I think yeah

[3:36:35] Voice 17: I think

[3:36:36] Trustee Grove: Dan Rogers may disagree with you and I do too and Chair Lacombe Peter Lacombe and then Trustee

[3:36:41] Trustee Grove: Boshaken well

[3:36:44] Trustee Luckham: I just want to say um I agree with Dan Rogers and I'm really humbled in hearing what

[3:36:49] Trustee Luckham: he said about the consideration of the surplus. But I'm also hearing what Deb Morrison is saying

[3:36:57] Trustee Luckham: in that indeed there are changes afoot and there are changes afoot that I think we need to

[3:37:03] Trustee Luckham: definitely stop talking about this next year and take some action and determine what those magic

[3:37:09] Trustee Luckham: numbers are but it is I agree it's perhaps premature but I want to caution Deb that

[3:37:16] Trustee Luckham: that I don't know how much extra money

[3:37:18] Trustee Luckham: is going to be on the table with the present review.

[3:37:22] Trustee Luckham: And indeed, I'd love it to get to be a balanced book,

[3:37:26] Trustee Luckham: but I think we're a little ways off from that.

[3:37:29] Trustee Luckham: But let's see how that pans out.

[3:37:32] Trustee Grove: So Laura Boucher.

[3:37:37] Voice 4: Yeah, thanks.

[3:37:38] Voice 4: Since we're obviously entering towards the discussion

[3:37:41] Voice 4: of possibly cutting some of what's in the budget,

[3:37:45] Voice 4: I just want to add that, you know,

[3:37:47] Voice 4: this this moment's been a long time coming like maybe 10 years um where we have uh been in the

[3:37:56] Voice 4: habit of somehow creating a large surplus every year and then spending the surplus the next year

[3:38:03] Voice 4: and it kind of worked for a while but we always knew it wasn't uh the right way to do things and

[3:38:09] Voice 4: i you know i think it's great that we've actually gotten way better at budgeting and maybe way better

[3:38:13] Voice 4: at how we do work so now we're no longer creating this great big surplus every year and we can no

[3:38:20] Voice 4: longer rely on it to spend and I think that's wonderful and I think we're in a really key moment

[3:38:24] Voice 4: right now and I'm of two minds of what to do right now because I think we could probably

[3:38:34] Voice 4: probably responsibly continue with the budget we have before us, change our surplus policy

[3:38:45] Voice 4: to a responsible degree, but next year we'll be facing harder decisions. But I think that's

[3:38:55] Voice 4: supportable given that we've got COVID and we've got...

[3:39:06] Trustee Grove: We've lost you, Laura.

[3:39:07] Trustee Grove: We've lost you.

[3:39:09] Trustee Grove: Laura Bushekin, we lost you there.

[3:39:16] Trustee Grove: Hello, going once, going twice.

[3:39:20] Trustee Grove: Peter Luckham.

[3:39:22] Trustee Grove: Peter Luckham, go.

[3:39:23] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[3:39:23] Trustee Luckham: I just wanted to make two acknowledgements.

[3:39:26] Trustee Luckham: One, that it's Julia Mobs that has actually created

[3:39:30] Trustee Luckham: a much tighter fiscal picture for us in the last number of years really want to acknowledge that

[3:39:37] Trustee Luckham: and that's why

[3:39:37] Trustee Luckham: we're tighter and indeed she said earlier that if it wasn't for the pandemic we'd

[3:39:41] Trustee Luckham: be pretty close and so thank you Julia and then the second thank you actually I think needs to go

[3:39:47] Trustee Luckham: out to all the staff the senior staff because when in at the last meeting I forget now when it was

[3:39:53] Trustee Luckham: we said we don't want to go above 8.3 million dollars all of us said no we want to keep the

[3:39:59] Trustee Luckham: projects, but staff did come back and they cut their budgets in order to be able to demonstrate

[3:40:04] Trustee Luckham: some reduction. So I just want to acknowledge that and offer a really terrific thank you for

[3:40:09] Trustee Luckham: helping us there. But it's still we've got other things to deal with. And I'll end on Russ

[3:40:15] Trustee Luckham: Hotzenpiller's words, do less.

[3:40:20] Trustee Grove: Yeah. So whichever way we go, we should have

[3:40:26] Trustee Grove: but whichever way we go, we should have a look at these projects. I'm curious to hear from Dan

[3:40:36] Trustee Grove: Rogers. I think he's got some ideas and Laura's got her hand up. But so before we hear from Dan

[3:40:42] Trustee Grove: Rogers, Laura, what did you wish to say?

[3:40:44] Trustee Patrick: Well, I just have some potential guidance in looking at

[3:40:46] Trustee Patrick: these is that we talk about trying to get more money from the province or feds or wherever.

[3:40:52] Trustee Patrick: when we have strategic planning in place we can attract more and I think the water

[3:40:59] Trustee Patrick: work is an example of that and that's like that's the purpose of the strategic watershed work that

[3:41:04] Trustee Patrick: we want to do on SWPA is to get ourselves aligned and project ready across organizations to be going

[3:41:10] Trustee Patrick: after that grant funding so it's positioning choosing those projects that are positioning us

[3:41:15] Trustee Patrick: to be potentially more eligible for other funding okay

[3:41:22] Trustee Grove: thank you now Dan did

[3:41:24] Trustee Grove: you want to take us through your suggestions Mr. Chair yes would

[3:41:28] Voice 11: you be

[3:41:30] Voice 11: willing to have a I think you're about to get into all of these cases at this

[3:41:34] Voice 11: point and maybe make some amendments which will be a long conversation would

[3:41:37] Voice 11: you be amenable to a 10-minute break or schedule

[3:41:40] Trustee Grove: that

[3:41:42] Voice 11: or yeah

[3:41:43] Trustee Grove: let's let's do

[3:41:44] Trustee Grove: that it's uh sorry to

[3:41:46] Trustee Grove: interrupt no let's get together at 2 30 again and um bearing in mind

[3:41:52] Trustee Grove: we had hoped to end tonight today's meeting at three o'clock but we may not be able so 2 30 all

[3:41:57] Trustee Grove: right with everybody that's 10 minutes that's 12 minutes okay no one's saying no

[3:44:01] hello

[3:54:49] Trustee Grove: hello how are we doing the numbers are clicking up um

[3:54:55] Trustee Grove: go ahead uh

[3:54:59] Voice 4: yes this is laura um i'm having internet trouble so i'm phoning in i'm going

[3:55:03] Voice 4: to try and get um a visual going through zoom but i'm i'm here on audio to phone so even if

[3:55:10] Voice 4: I'm disappearing from Zoom, I'm still here.

[3:55:13] Trustee Grove: It happens to all of us and all I can say is our

[3:55:16] Trustee Grove: techie peoples in Victoria are fabulous and they fixed me up overnight anyway because yesterday

[3:55:23] Trustee Grove: as Laura will attest, Laura Patrick that is, I was having problems too. I wonder

[3:55:29] Voice 8: how they fixed you up.

[3:55:31] Trustee Grove: They did fix me up, oh yes, they made a new man of me. Oh

[3:55:36] Voice 4: well I wish this would be the same for me.

[3:55:39] Trustee Grove: I'm sure they will. And Peter Lackham, are you still at the bottom of the sea or is there

[3:55:43] Trustee Grove: is there life there? No, I think he's still at the bottom of the sea. Anyway, let's press on.

[3:55:53] Trustee Grove: And we are now going into here from Dan. Are you there, Dan? Yes, there's Dan. Great. It's

[3:56:00] Trustee Grove: irritating how people move around, isn't it? You never know. You just get used to somebody in the

[3:56:04] Trustee Grove: top right-hand corner and then lo and behold they're in the bottom left-hand corner.

[3:56:07] Trustee Grove: and you're muted dan but we want to hear from you because you're going to you've got some thoughts

[3:56:13] Trustee Grove: about the project yeah

[3:56:15] Voice 19: yeah thanks thanks for this i get to be the bad guy but that's okay

[3:56:22] Voice 19: so so let me just say that um i value everything on this list um but i am conscious

[3:56:33] Voice 19: of I am I am concerned that some of them is we're just taking on more than we can

[3:56:41] Voice 19: can do so I will tell you the ones that the items that I have identified as

[3:56:50] Voice 19: perhaps we could recommend to Trust Council that they be removed we do not

[3:56:56] Voice 19: have a business case for eel grass mapping and that's because it's been

[3:57:01] Voice 19: carried over from the year before. That project was always intended to be a joint project with

[3:57:07] Voice 19: a not-for-profit who I have seen no indication that that not-for-profit is able to or willing

[3:57:17] Voice 19: to join us in that mapping project. And I am concerned, and while I completely get the climate

[3:57:26] Voice 19: change and the importance of eelgrass mapping in this, it seems to me that it might be a

[3:57:34] Voice 19: project that is a project that is perhaps more money than we can lay out this year and

[3:57:43] Voice 19: we should consider deferring it.

[3:57:45] Voice 19: I have also identified, and it's very problematic for me to say this, but it seems to me that

[3:57:53] Voice 19: As I read the business case on the develop the set of climate change demographic and environment data, that it was somewhat undefined as to what our role was going to be in that, and particularly given the Sea to Sky project that's going on out there in terms of perhaps doing a pilot project with us if they get a bigger set of funding.

[3:58:16] Voice 19: And as I read the business case, it also seemed a bit undefined as to how we would go about doing it and who would, frankly, who would manage that project.

[3:58:29] Voice 19: So both of those I would see as potential recommendations to Trust Council to remove from the projects list and the surplus that allows $75,000 of the two projects that we might be able to take off or not have to draw from surplus.

[3:58:54] Voice 19: plus and i am

[3:58:55] Voice 19: cognizant of the fact um that that you know um both of those are uh are um well

[3:59:05] Voice 19: that's not true the eelgrass mapping i guess is an rpc project is it uh not it's not a trust area

[3:59:11] Voice 19: services project um but i you know the trust area services has huge projects on its agenda right now

[3:59:18] Voice 19: With the website, with the trust policy statement, with their involvement in reconciliation, there's just tons and tons of work to do.

[3:59:27] Voice 19: And there's three people, effectively, three delivery people.

[3:59:31] Voice 19: I know there's some other folks involved.

[3:59:33] Voice 19: And I just wonder whether those are.

[3:59:35] Voice 19: So those are the two that I have identified.

[3:59:38] Voice 19: I also wonder why broadcast public meetings is in our reserve area.

[3:59:44] Voice 19: It strikes me that that should be in our general operations.

[3:59:47] Voice 19: Because we're going to have to find a way to do broadcast public meetings going into the future forever, as far as I'm concerned.

[3:59:56] Voice 19: This is a new normal in that area.

[3:59:58] Voice 19: And so I don't know why.

[4:00:00] Voice 19: would be funded out of surplus as opposed to general operations i have a couple of comments

[4:00:04] Voice 19: on general operations i think we really have to think hard about that water co-op student and i

[4:00:10] Voice 19: think we need to really think hard about that bylaw communications officer because i think those are

[4:00:15] Voice 19: driving some of the tax increase that we need to reconsider so those are the five areas that i have

[4:00:22] Voice 19: identified i'm happy to make motions on any of them um and there may be others that i can support

[4:00:29] Voice 19: but those are the five that I've been thinking about.

[4:00:32] Voice 19: And that doesn't mean I want to just reiterate

[4:00:33] Voice 19: for anybody watching and for all the trustees here,

[4:00:36] Voice 19: it's not because I don't understand the value of them.

[4:00:38] Voice 19: I do and I support the value,

[4:00:40] Voice 19: but I think there's some choices to be made this year.

[4:00:43] Trustee Grove: Thank you, Dan.

[4:00:44] Trustee Grove: I've got a couple to add,

[4:00:45] Trustee Grove: but I'd like to hear from other people first.

[4:00:47] Trustee Grove: Let's make a list of potential items.

[4:00:50] Trustee Grove: Kate Stanford.

[4:00:53] Voice 6: I'm going to be a cat here among the pigeons.

[4:01:01] Voice 6: That $75,000 for the governance management operations review, I really felt that the process for that, it did not sit well with me and the way it was voted on, the fact it's still pending to go to the strategic plan,

[4:01:23] Voice 6: I think possibly needs to be talked about again that maybe it can be put into the following year

[4:01:31] Voice 6: or some plan forward that doesn't mean that it's sitting on that coming out of our surplus this

[4:01:37] Voice 6: year.

[4:01:38] Trustee Grove: Thank you and that's $75,000. Anything else on the list and then we'll talk about each of

[4:01:46] Trustee Grove: these once we've got the list. Staff I hope you're can you make a list that we can then put up on the

[4:01:51] Trustee Grove: on the board when it's time.

[4:01:58] Trustee Grove: So a question, I heard at one point

[4:02:02] Trustee Grove: that to finish the mapping and development water budgets

[4:02:05] Trustee Grove: for groundwater aquifers, $50,000,

[4:02:09] Trustee Grove: that that really wasn't likely to go ahead

[4:02:12] Trustee Grove: or something like that.

[4:02:13] Trustee Grove: There's a question about that.

[4:02:15] Trustee Grove: Does anybody know about it?

[4:02:16] Trustee Grove: David, are you there?

[4:02:19] Voice 1: Yeah, I am here.

[4:02:20] Voice 1: Yeah that line is for the groundwater mapping that was starting the Southern Islands

[4:02:28] Voice 1: and it was continued this year on Denman, Hornby and Gabriela and to

[4:02:35] Voice 1: finish it off in quotes is to do the Gambia, Bowen, Liskety and Keats Islands so that's

[4:02:42] Voice 1: what the $50,000 is for.

[4:02:45] Trustee Grove: And is that still considered something necessary and valuable?

[4:02:53] Voice 1: It is from the point of view that the groundwater mapping that we have is creating data information that the planners can use and that the water specialists can use for helping local trust committees with respect to planning on the islands.

[4:03:12] Voice 1: So if we stop it now, we would have data sets for some islands and not others.

[4:03:18] Voice 1: So, yeah, it'd be nice to finish the project.

[4:03:22] Voice 1: project that would be about as much as i could say about that um

[4:03:27] Trustee Grove: as an accountant um thank you

[4:03:29] Trustee Grove: laura i'll get you in just a second um uh as a as an accountant we tend to to round things up and

[4:03:34] Trustee Grove: round things down and we uh we um merge things um and so i mean basically anything under ten

[4:03:42] Trustee Grove: thousand dollars i would remove from that list as a matter of policy and i'm sure there's a way of

[4:03:47] Trustee Grove: of getting that work done in other ways,

[4:03:50] Trustee Grove: some creative accounting.

[4:03:52] Trustee Grove: I'm sure Julia took a creative accounting course also.

[4:03:55] Trustee Grove: But I mean, I would not throw those two off

[4:03:58] Trustee Grove: and that's $12,000.

[4:04:01] Trustee Grove: And there may be some squawks about that.

[4:04:03] Trustee Grove: And frankly, there are other ones that I just see

[4:04:08] Trustee Grove: as being essential or important.

[4:04:12] Trustee Grove: And we can go through them one by one.

[4:04:15] Trustee Grove: but anyway Laura Patrick had something to say. I

[4:04:19] Trustee Grove: don't

[4:04:20] Trustee Patrick: want to rain on the prey I'm going the

[4:04:21] Trustee Patrick: wrong way but just to point out that does not finish the mapping Salt Spring was an early

[4:04:28] Trustee Patrick: experimental version that is was kind of rejected so Salt Spring has not been included in the

[4:04:35] Trustee Patrick: mapping so it will not finish the mapping but I'm not

[4:04:37] Trustee Patrick: asking for more money at this moment

[4:04:39] Trustee Patrick: it's not finished uh

[4:04:41] Trustee Grove: peter luckham i believe and then deb so

[4:04:45] Trustee Luckham: i haven't heard anything that

[4:04:47] Trustee Luckham: ups ups upsets me um and um i think that you know it's interesting to note right that i think

[4:04:55] Trustee Luckham: whoever was appointed that out and might have been dan um is that um financial planning committee's

[4:05:03] Trustee Luckham: responsibilities to recommend a budget to council and and that you think as a body is

[4:05:10] Trustee Luckham: is manageable, sustainable, et cetera, et cetera.

[4:05:15] Trustee Luckham: And so you can certainly make a recommended budget

[4:05:18] Trustee Luckham: that excludes any number of the items

[4:05:20] Trustee Luckham: that have been just advanced in the last moments.

[4:05:24] Trustee Luckham: And it's up to council to determine to put them back.

[4:05:27] Trustee Luckham: And we've seen that happen.

[4:05:29] Trustee Luckham: So I wouldn't be afraid of saying this is our best advice

[4:05:34] Trustee Luckham: and then council decide what it is that it wants to do.

[4:05:38] Trustee Luckham: too. I just caution one thing that if we take something off the list, I don't think that we

[4:05:46] Trustee Luckham: should, as was just suggested, we use creative accounting practices to figure out how to get

[4:05:51] Trustee Luckham: it back in. Because what we're going to be doing is not providing the political initiative to get

[4:05:59] Trustee Luckham: the work done. We're going to do it on the backs of our staff that are already overworked. And I

[4:06:04] Trustee Luckham: don't want to do that at all if we want to do something let's pay for it if we don't want to

[4:06:09] Trustee Luckham: do it then we're not going to do it thank

[4:06:12] Trustee Grove: you very much um deb and then laura who's shaken

[4:06:16] Voice 17: um i didn't hear dan's first item i only heard the eel grass so i'm not sure if i might repeat

[4:06:22] Voice 17: myself um but uh a couple quick things first of all i think i agree with what chair letham just

[4:06:30] Voice 17: said um with one additional caveat it's not just what we as a financial planning committee choose

[4:06:37] Voice 17: to recommend to council it's what we think meets the objectives council has stated for itself

[4:06:44] Voice 17: okay so we are not at liberty to like randomly pull things left right and center

[4:06:51] Voice 17: that are necessarily against motions of council so be careful about how we think about that

[4:06:59] Voice 17: and understandable that not everybody agrees with every motion, I certainly don't.

[4:07:04] Voice 17: So, but our goal here is to recommend a budget that is in line with what Council has spoken

[4:07:11] Voice 17: about as their priorities, as their recommended actions, and still in line with us. To clarify

[4:07:17] Voice 17: for that, I'm trying to understand how much we are trying to reduce the budget by to get inside

[4:07:26] Voice 17: decide that cap which is i my understanding of what we're trying to do so i just need a little

[4:07:31] Voice 17: bit of clarity because i i can see several items that are up for discussion but i would like to

[4:07:36] Voice 17: understand exactly how much we're trying to reduce things by um and so the couple things i think that

[4:07:43] Voice 17: are pushable until we know if if we have like where we sit financially in the year and that

[4:07:50] Voice 17: we could pick up easy things to be able to shift and i know claire's gonna hate me for this but

[4:07:55] Voice 17: that might be the Stewardship Education Program.

[4:07:58] Voice 17: Like it is something that is, I strongly believe in it,

[4:08:03] Voice 17: but honestly, when I look at this list

[4:08:05] Voice 17: and hear the Priorities Council has said

[4:08:07] Voice 17: in particular directions,

[4:08:09] Voice 17: I think it's one of the more flexible items

[4:08:11] Voice 17: in our list of things.

[4:08:14] Voice 17: And it's a fair amount of money.

[4:08:17] Voice 17: And then in terms of the, oh, I lost it now.

[4:08:23] Voice 17: the I want to say it was the freshwater management plan there was a thing on the list that I was

[4:08:31] Voice 17: looking at that was really expensive but I don't see where it went now oh there it is no I'm not

[4:08:40] Voice 17: sure now so I I said I thought there was I had a different list in front of me when I was looking

[4:08:44] Voice 17: at my own document but the list on the screen here it doesn't I don't see it here it was something

[4:08:49] Voice 17: about the um freshwater management plan and I want I'm wondering about the ability to to do that

[4:08:56] Voice 17: without all of the groundwater management if that is actually the right timing like if pushing that

[4:09:01] Voice 17: a year might be the better move so i'm not sure about that one

[4:09:04] Trustee Grove: thank you laura boucher

[4:09:07] Trustee Grove: thank you

[4:09:11] Voice 4: well a couple things i'm thinking it would be good to get a general agreement about

[4:09:17] Voice 4: how much we would like to reduce the budget by um and to me that means we'd almost need to

[4:09:25] Voice 4: look at that question about where we want the surplus to be which is towards the end of the

[4:09:30] Voice 4: agenda for today before we can decide that but maybe not um so that's one thing i'd also just

[4:09:36] Voice 4: in terms of you know creative accounting or shaving off a bit here and there we have already

[4:09:40] Voice 4: sent this budget back to staff a few months ago with a request to to fine-tune and look for little

[4:09:48] Voice 4: bits of savings and i think they did an awesome job of that so i don't know if we can turn the

[4:09:53] Voice 4: screws any tighter on that kind of um uh adjustment to the budget and um i just um couple things um i

[4:10:02] Voice 4: just want to um i don't even want to speak in favor of keeping the communications position that

[4:10:08] Voice 4: was my uh kind of my baby so of course i personally would like to see it stay there but i also i i

[4:10:14] Voice 4: understand that communications um can seem like a um unnecessary or not unnecessary less essential

[4:10:23] Voice 4: than some things um and just a couple things about that it's i actually had a note to bring

[4:10:29] Voice 4: it up in the discussion in that if you read the business case it certainly wasn't what i was

[4:10:33] Voice 4: putting on the table exactly it's not about educating people about bylaw enforcement it's

[4:10:39] Voice 4: about educating people um to understand what the trust is what we do and that we have bylaws and

[4:10:46] Voice 4: and that you have to pay attention. And there are some specific pieces there, like a program to go

[4:10:52] Voice 4: out and have meetings with contractors and real estate agents and builders, you know, welcome

[4:10:58] Voice 4: packages for newcomers. And I think that position, I still think it's important. And I think it saves

[4:11:05] Voice 4: money in the long run. There'll be less enforcement cases, there'll be better quality public

[4:11:11] Voice 4: consultation. I mean, and maybe I'm naive, but I do think that where people say, okay, like,

[4:11:15] Voice 4: Like, wow, I'm in this special place.

[4:11:17] Voice 4: There's a trust.

[4:11:18] Voice 4: We have to be a little more careful.

[4:11:20] Voice 4: I get it.

[4:11:22] Voice 4: I think that trickles out into many things we do.

[4:11:27] Voice 4: And if we get professionals working in the building industry to act accordingly, we end up with less nightmare situations down the road.

[4:11:35] Voice 4: I think that position could be downscaled into perhaps a short-term position with, to get all those things in place, there'd be some sort of some templates and toolkits that doesn't have to stick around. It doesn't have, it could be a short-term position, it could be a consultant. So that would be maybe a way to scale it down instead of cutting it out completely.

[4:12:00] Voice 4: The other thing I wanted to bring up is the bylaw enforcement officer. And I understand, I mean, the business case is very convincing. And at the same time, I think it's just a few islands that are feeling they need significantly more bylaw enforcement at this time.

[4:12:19] Voice 4: And again, maybe that could be dealt with in a more targeted way. And I, although I do understand that, you know, just under 1000 responses to our survey isn't super representative, and that a number of them support more bylaw enforcement, a lot of them didn't.

[4:12:38] Voice 4: And I think there's a feeling that with COVID, bylaw enforcement, particularly against housing or actions of small businesses, it's not the time to increase it.

[4:12:52] Voice 4: So that, I would say, could be perhaps turned into a half-time position.

[4:12:57] Trustee Grove: Thank you, Laura. Julia, I believe the number we're looking for to remain within our guidelines is about $200,000. Is that right?

[4:13:07] Voice 12: That's about $290,000. So, you know, if the committee is looking for a number to get to,

[4:13:16] Voice 12: there's additional things to consider. One, if you want to stay within that policy for this year,

[4:13:21] Voice 12: yes, you need to find, you need to reduce the drawn surplus by $290,000. You'll, you know,

[4:13:27] Voice 12: that doesn't alleviate problems for next year. So if you want to, you know, have a long-term view

[4:13:35] Voice 12: and potentially alleviate future tax increases

[4:13:38] Voice 12: or still be able to use surplus in the same way that we have,

[4:13:41] Voice 12: you might want to reduce the surplus draw by a greater amount.

[4:13:45] Voice 12: So it depends what the goal is.

[4:13:47] Trustee Grove: I think, sorry, reduce the surplus draw.

[4:13:52] Trustee Grove: Is that what you said?

[4:13:53] Voice 12: Yes.

[4:13:54] Trustee Grove: Or we could also reduce the surplus requirement.

[4:13:57] Trustee Grove: Anyway, Dan Rogers is waving.

[4:14:01] Voice 19: Sorry, I'm trying to understand that number

[4:14:06] Voice 19: of 290 because when i look at the bottom of page um oh what page is it i've got my thing page 193

[4:14:15] Voice 19: what we see is uh that that the if we do all what we've said we're going to do the fund will be 101

[4:14:23] Voice 19: million seven four instead of one million nine five so that's i sort of assumed that meant two

[4:14:30] Voice 19: hundred thousand dollars as well and i'm wondering where the 290 comes from uh

[4:14:35] Voice 12: so that document was

[4:14:36] Voice 12: actually prepared in advance of some other work that was happening. Our timelines were

[4:14:42] Voice 12: very restricted this year, and so a lot of work was happening in conjunction with each other.

[4:14:47] Voice 12: So some of the changes weren't updated to that document. If you look at the surplus

[4:14:53] Voice 12: sensitivity analysis, that one is actually correct. So I need to update the document

[4:14:57] Voice 12: we're currently looking at. The expected balance in the General Revenue Surplus Fund would be $1.7

[4:15:03] Voice 12: million which is 85 percent of policy as

[4:15:12] Voice 19: opposed to 1 million nine hundred and fifty thousand

[4:15:16] Voice 19: dollars it's 250 250 uh

[4:15:21] Voice 12: so the minimum the minimum balance required under policy uh with the current

[4:15:26] Voice 12: draft budget is is almost two million dollars and we'd be looking at 1.7 in the general revenue

[4:15:31] Voice 12: surplus fund yeah my apologies that that particular number that you're looking at is inaccurate the

[4:15:36] Voice 12: correct number is in the sensitivity analysis.

[4:15:39] Voice 11: Mr. Chair. Well

[4:15:43] Voice 11: I think there's a if you if I may

[4:15:46] Voice 11: please so we're talking about the surplus now and I think the surplus question while Julia's

[4:15:54] Voice 11: raised the alarm and and has has is doing that uh in a dutiful way probably the solution to that is

[4:16:02] Voice 11: a structured one over two or three years over some period of time as opposed to just like

[4:16:07] Voice 11: whack it um because we it's like we're we bred this into ourselves and we have to slowly breed

[4:16:15] Voice 11: our way get ourselves out of that process to a certain degree also this conversation doesn't

[4:16:20] Voice 11: address the tax rate i don't think right so i don't know if the tax rate you know like what's

[4:16:27] Voice 11: an appropriate tax level for um the um your constituents isn't really addressed by the

[4:16:34] Voice 11: surplus question unless you're lessening a draw on surplus and raising taxes right so um i think

[4:16:44] Voice 11: that you just have to as you're looking at what you're going to cut there's two ways to approach

[4:16:50] Voice 11: this one there's some numerical standard we're trying to achieve and that's great or you go you

[4:16:56] Voice 11: know what this is too much and here's some ways to some suggestions and you vote on those various

[4:17:01] Voice 11: changes you know the first one probably you need a fairly structured conversation or we can stay

[4:17:06] Voice 11: here a long time and that's that's fine the second one you can just you know go this is i'm feeling

[4:17:13] Voice 11: this is too much and then you get something on the table and and so forth so those are the two

[4:17:17] Voice 11: approaches so

[4:17:18] Trustee Grove: what do you mean by the tax rate russ well

[4:17:22] Voice 11: right now we're talking about the surplus

[4:17:23] Voice 11: reducing a draw from surplus and then taking out and uh miss mobs always fixes up everything i say

[4:17:29] Voice 11: but when you reduce the surplus and get rid of the thing you're just you're not affecting the

[4:17:36] Voice 11: tax rate in any way right you're just affecting your draw from surplus or not correct right so

[4:17:43] Voice 11: if you if you're a trustee who's concerned about the tax rate at 4.25 percent or whatever it is

[4:17:48] Voice 11: you're not being satisfied by simply having a conversation that exists within the surplus

[4:17:54] Voice 11: question. Does

[4:17:56] Trustee Grove: that make sense? Well, but if we don't, the alternative is to increase the tax

[4:18:01] Trustee Grove: rate if we don't reduce the ask, if we don't reduce the services.

[4:18:09] Voice 11: Well, indeed, but you'd

[4:18:10] Voice 11: have to consider things that aren't in surplus.

[4:18:16] Voice 8: Which Dan did.

[4:18:18] Trustee Grove: Right. Go ahead, Swellen.

[4:18:21] Voice 8: Yeah, thank you. Just to point out that Dan Rogers did talk about the water co-op student

[4:18:27] Voice 8: in the bylaw communications and Laura which are not part of the surplus I just wanted to bring

[4:18:33] Voice 8: up something that hadn't been brought up it's great discussion and that is the time of intense

[4:18:39] Voice 8: change that we're in right now and I'm reluctant to reduce our surplus by a lot when you know when

[4:18:53] Voice 8: when municipal insurance rates are changing and we're looking for a new supplier,

[4:18:57] Voice 8: when different people are moving to the islands who might want to sue us more often.

[4:19:03] Voice 8: We've got the Zoomtown effect where everybody is now able to work from afar.

[4:19:10] Voice 8: We've heard from Laura about the pressure on real estate on her island

[4:19:15] Voice 8: and that people are competing for positions in the paper to move property.

[4:19:22] Voice 8: and i'm also our constituents are changing as well i'm just concerned that the uh amount of

[4:19:30] Voice 8: change we're in this kind of liminal point and uh and i don't want to cut our options and

[4:19:36] Voice 8: flexibility so i would i like dan's approach of um uh reducing both the draw from surplus

[4:19:44] Voice 8: and uh the draw from taxes and uh and i'm also supporting most of what i've heard especially

[4:19:51] Voice 8: Kate Louise's about that governance management and operations review project because from what

[4:19:57] Voice 8: I've seen I'm not sure we're going to be able to spend that this year and then it seems to me like

[4:20:05] Voice 8: something that would be better deferred but that's my comments.

[4:20:10] Trustee Grove: Thank you and I've got Dan back but

[4:20:12] Trustee Grove: Dan before you ask what you're going to do I'm keeping track here of numbers the water co-op

[4:20:17] Trustee Grove: student and the bylaw communications what are the dollar signs attached to them? I'd have to find

[4:20:25] Trustee Grove: them i'm sorry sorry i was i

[4:20:27] Trustee Grove: was being lazy because i figured you'd have them and i've got

[4:20:31] Voice 13: i've got them right on the screen here i can't see this the bottom communication

[4:20:36] Voice 13: specialist is thirty

[4:20:37] Voice 13: five thousand two hundred and sixty dollars okay

[4:20:40] Trustee Grove: thirty five thousand and the water co-op student

[4:20:42] Voice 13: uh just over twenty thousand dollars

[4:20:44] Voice 11: okay thank you mr chair just i apologize can i ask one quick

[4:20:49] Voice 11: just point out one more thing you don't need to apologize yeah as you're considering cutting

[4:20:54] Voice 11: things i would go through them to go don't cut things that are in it's less advantageous to cut

[4:21:01] Voice 11: something that's already underway right so we wouldn't like a so we wouldn't want to do that

[4:21:06] Voice 11: and also something that's tied to a grant meaning oh

[4:21:11] Voice 16: if we've just

[4:21:11] Voice 11: gotten a well that's what the

[4:21:12] Voice 11: bylaw the water bylaw one is like we're getting a grant is it

[4:21:16] Voice 11: 190 000 in that positions to make

[4:21:19] Voice 11: that work happen we're hiring that person so well

[4:21:22] Trustee Grove: as you look at those that's the that's the water

[4:21:26] Trustee Grove: co-op student yes okay well i couldn't agree more we shouldn't we shouldn't be touching something

[4:21:32] Trustee Grove: that we have a ground for but we don't have a grant for that that's the point i thought you

[4:21:37] Voice 11: said we did oh julia can you can you um clarify that i thought that we did yes

[4:21:43] Voice 12: so we do not have

[4:21:44] Voice 12: have grant funding to cover the freshwater co-op student that is a request that's coming forward

[4:21:50] Voice 12: because there will be additional work for staff as a result of the grant funds my

[4:21:56] Voice 11: apologies and so

[4:21:58] Voice 12: staff put forward a case our pc said we support your case and that's why it's here but absolutely

[4:22:04] Voice 12: up for debate and

[4:22:08] Trustee Grove: and deb just before i but just to give you track we're at 240 000 right now on

[4:22:14] Trustee Grove: on projects which we think we might be able to cut out.

[4:22:17] Trustee Grove: And I've got Laura Patrick and then

[4:22:18] Trustee Patrick: Deb Morrison.

[4:22:20] Trustee Grove: I

[4:22:20] Trustee Patrick: thought we were generating a list of possibles

[4:22:23] Trustee Patrick: and then going back and talking about that list.

[4:22:26] Trustee Grove: Yes, we will, we will.

[4:22:28] Trustee Grove: And I'm putting a list here

[4:22:30] Trustee Grove: and I hope somebody else is too.

[4:22:32] Trustee Grove: Sorry, Deb Morrison.

[4:22:35] Voice 17: So I still feel on a process question

[4:22:37] Voice 17: that we're having two different conversations

[4:22:39] Voice 17: because I do think we have to come to a firm voted agreement about that we are cutting like

[4:22:50] Voice 17: that we're even cutting I actually think that we should have that as a motion and the reason that

[4:22:59] Voice 17: I think that's important is because there are some principles in that that are getting a little

[4:23:04] Voice 17: little bit muddied in this conversation and it's it's a little bit frustrating so it isn't as simple

[4:23:10] Voice 17: as saying that we're drawing from surplus this year and it's either draw from surplus or increase

[4:23:17] Voice 17: taxes because the fee bylaw is in play um next year and that is also something that will generate

[4:23:24] Voice 17: revenue hopefully next year and i know that it's complex and it's all those other things but you

[4:23:30] Voice 17: you know what, all the decisions we're having to make this year are going to be the argument for

[4:23:34] Voice 17: why we need to get that in place and not be paying for some of the things that I don't think we

[4:23:41] Voice 17: should be paying for. So we can pay for other things that we should be paying for. So I don't

[4:23:47] Voice 17: want us to compare this year and next in the same way exactly, because hopefully we will be in a

[4:23:53] Voice 17: slightly different financial situation with our base budget next year based on what we might

[4:23:58] Voice 17: recover um so i just think we need to be a little cautious on making that a direct comparison so i

[4:24:04] Voice 17: would like us to actually have a clear statement of exactly what we're trying to cut before we get

[4:24:10] Voice 17: into a conversation about any of these individual items because then that gives us a benchmark to

[4:24:14] Voice 17: which we're going to work towards

[4:24:15] Trustee Grove: okay feel free to i i hope you can hear me my picture has frozen

[4:24:21] Trustee Grove: can somebody nod if you can hear me good thank you um so would you like to make a motion then

[4:24:26] Trustee Grove: and uh that i

[4:24:28] Voice 17: would actually like to see this budget go forward like it is to council because

[4:24:32] Voice 17: i can tell you a hundred percent that if you start cutting individual projects which i think that's

[4:24:38] Voice 17: okay for us to do if you want to do that as it's the will of this committee to do that but if you

[4:24:42] Voice 17: want to do that and particularly i gotta tell you you know it's a politically loaded thing to cut

[4:24:46] Voice 17: that seventy five thousand dollars out that's the review because most of the people here are the

[4:24:51] Voice 17: people who voted against it and so when you take that back to council somebody's going to shove it

[4:24:55] Voice 17: back in so like let's think about that and not make that a here a back and forth issue and actually

[4:25:02] Voice 17: really think about what we can do like what we can functionally do so we're not leaving staff

[4:25:08] Voice 17: and julia in a situation where we're juggling the budget at the last minute well you're absolutely

[4:25:13] Trustee Grove: correct sorry to butt in but i mean if you think we're having problems a difficult discussion now

[4:25:18] Trustee Grove: with whatever we are seven or eight people by doing it with 26 i mean i think we have to show

[4:25:22] Trustee Grove: show some leadership and we have to show a proposal probably. And Dan's list, and there's

[4:25:31] Trustee Grove: a couple of other items, adds up to $240,000. And I think that's a pretty damn good place to start

[4:25:38] Trustee Grove: myself. And I'd like to see that kind of a list go ahead. Yes, go ahead, Dan.

[4:25:50] Trustee Grove: Thanks. I

[4:25:52] Voice 16: actually

[4:25:57] Voice 19: don't think we should set a target because I just think that that is difficult for us to do.

[4:26:10] Voice 19: My preference would be that we not dip the surplus below what the standard of the policy is by more than a nominal amount.

[4:26:25] Voice 19: um however i i you know i also am i know the importance of a number of these projects

[4:26:31] Voice 19: so my my intention was or my my thinking was to sort of try and find a few things

[4:26:38] Voice 19: um of the things that i've mentioned there's been a few others trustee morrison mentioned something

[4:26:44] Voice 19: um there's been a couple of others that we uh that financial planning committee says here's

[4:26:52] Voice 19: Here's the budget and here's the recommendation for what we would like to remove from the

[4:26:57] Voice 19: budget.

[4:26:59] Voice 19: I mean, that's the way it would play out.

[4:27:01] Voice 19: And then trust counsel could say, no, we want to keep that or no, we're okay with taking

[4:27:07] Voice 19: that out once they hear the argument.

[4:27:09] Voice 19: I mean, I don't accept the proposition that just because trust counsel has said we'd like

[4:27:15] Voice 19: to do X that they can't come back and say, well, we're not going to budget for that.

[4:27:20] Voice 19: I think they can.

[4:27:22] Voice 19: The Trust Council can come and say, now that we see the whole budget, maybe we want to rethink that.

[4:27:29] Voice 19: And now that we see the impact on the surplus, maybe we don't want to do this.

[4:27:34] Voice 19: Because everything on this list, Trust Council has told us they want to do every single thing, either in the strategic plan or by specific motion.

[4:27:44] Voice 19: motion. So now we got to get to the point where we got to say, okay, are we going to fund all of

[4:27:50] Voice 19: these things? And how are we going to fund all this? So I really don't want to personally don't

[4:27:58] Voice 19: want to make a motion to set a target. I just like to make some motions to recommend to remove

[4:28:05] Voice 19: a few things from the budget. And then trust counsel can do what they want, but they know

[4:28:10] Voice 19: those are the things we've identified. That's my approach and I'm happy to start but if people

[4:28:15] Voice 19: don't like that approach then we could take a different one.

[4:28:20] Trustee Grove: Can you hear me people?

[4:28:24] Voice 9: Yes.

[4:28:24] Trustee Grove: Okay I may disappear off the planet so I need to ask Dan would you take over if I disappear

[4:28:33] Trustee Grove: completely please?

[4:28:38] Voice 19: Okay because we don't have the other two trustees that are non-executive

[4:28:43] Voice 19: committee are non-chairs because to hear a

[4:28:46] Voice 19: laughing Paul and we don't have the vice so

[4:28:49] Voice 19: we have to appoint someone if you leave but we can still hear you so go ahead okay good that's

[4:28:54] Trustee Grove: that's fine I may be back um Peter I think

[4:29:04] Trustee Luckham: I think I was next thank you uh chair um I'm just

[4:29:09] Trustee Luckham: cognizant of the time and I guess that just seems to be my bane in life um um because I'm going to

[4:29:16] Trustee Luckham: to leave the meeting at a quarter to five because i got a cbc radio interview um if we don't get on

[4:29:22] Trustee Luckham: with getting down to get the motions on the table we're never going to get to the motions so i would

[4:29:27] Trustee Luckham: be i would just say let's get on with it and they can either pass or fail and

[4:29:32] Trustee Grove: i agree okay

[4:29:34] Voice 19: so i'm

[4:29:36] Voice 19: going to move uh as a preliminary unless sorry i don't want to cut anybody off but i'll move that

[4:29:42] Voice 19: that FPC recommend to trust council that the eelgrass mapping phase one be

[4:29:52] Voice 19: removed from the 2021-2022 budget

[4:30:01] Trustee Grove: Are you just going to do one by one by one?

[4:30:04] Trustee Grove: I am.

[4:30:07] Trustee Grove: Okay, fine.

[4:30:08] Trustee Grove: So is there a seconder to that?

[4:30:12] Trustee Grove: Trustee Stanford, seconded.

[4:30:15] Trustee Grove: I'm sorry, I'm having serious trouble here with communications.

[4:30:19] Trustee Grove: I don't know what's going on.

[4:30:20] Trustee Grove: I'm tempted to shut this down and start it again,

[4:30:24] Trustee Grove: but I'd like someone to take over while I'm not here.

[4:30:28] Voice 11: You should vote first.

[4:30:31] Trustee Grove: On this particular...

[4:30:32] Trustee Grove: okay all those in favor aye any abstaining so that that passes eelgrass mapping um will be

[4:30:44] Trustee Grove: removed then and you

[4:30:47] Voice 19: may not have seen but trustee morrison voted nay so just so you know i'm sorry

[4:30:52] Trustee Grove: i did not see that thank you um well actually that's i don't know what to do with that this

[4:30:58] Trustee Grove: i think i need to shut it down um so will somebody please volunteer to to chair the meeting while i'm

[4:31:05] Trustee Grove: away i'll just people

[4:31:08] Trustee Luckham: shaking i'll share the meeting and uh dan did you have another motion

[4:31:13] Trustee Grove: thank you i'm going to disappear from um

[4:31:17] Voice 19: i'm i'm cognizant of uh trustee morrison's um

[4:31:23] Voice 19: uh suggestion about the stewardship education program um it's actually made up of two elements

[4:31:30] Voice 19: one is the carryover from this year and and then the fifteen thousand dollars is a different

[4:31:35] Voice 19: item related to a mail-out I'm going to move that the financial planning

[4:31:42] Voice 19: committee recommend to Trust Council that that stewards the stewardship

[4:31:49] Voice 19: education program be reduced to $9,000 okay

[4:32:01] Voice 9: do I have a seconder that was Sue

[4:32:05] Voice 9: Ellen fast by the sounds of it yeah and do you wish to speak to the motion yeah

[4:32:09] Voice 19: Yeah, and I'll just tell you the way I understand it.

[4:32:12] Voice 19: That $9,000 is designed for the climate change

[4:32:15] Voice 19: from an Indigenous lens workshops

[4:32:20] Voice 19: that were planned as a follow-up

[4:32:22] Voice 19: to the climate change workshops we did in the fall of 2020.

[4:32:27] Voice 19: And while the specifics of that have not been rolled out,

[4:32:30] Voice 19: I would like to see those continue.

[4:32:32] Voice 19: The $15,000 is in relation to an important mail-out

[4:32:38] Voice 19: that is being planned to um uh to new owners in the trust area a long planned project but i also

[4:32:45] Voice 19: know from talking to the director that that's going to be a difficult thing for capacity-wise

[4:32:50] Voice 19: for them to put together so i am i'm comfortable with post so that's that's why i've designed that

[4:32:56] Voice 19: motion that way so

[4:33:00] Trustee Luckham: dan just a bit of advice and perhaps it requires an amendment i think that if

[4:33:04] Trustee Luckham: If you're going to reduce it to $9,000, you'd want to also say what aspects of that that

[4:33:09] Trustee Luckham: you do not want to get done specifically so that they're not trying to do the whole thing

[4:33:14] Trustee Luckham: for $9,000.

[4:33:16] Voice 19: All right.

[4:33:16] Voice 19: All right.

[4:33:16] Voice 19: All right.

[4:33:16] Voice 19: So although the motion's been seconded, we're

[4:33:22] Trustee Luckham: into that dilemma.

[4:33:24] Trustee Luckham: Well, it's either considered a friendly amendment or given that you've spoken to the motion,

[4:33:32] Trustee Luckham: I don't think what you've spoken to is included in your motion.

[4:33:34] Trustee Luckham: Right.

[4:33:37] Voice 19: But it is included in the business case. Anyway, my intention is that it be reduced to $9,000 to pay for, not pay for is a bad language, to fund the climate change workshop from an indigenous perspective.

[4:33:59] Voice 19: So

[4:34:06] Trustee Luckham: can we take that as a friendly amendment? It doesn't change the intent given that the motion was spoken to with that intent. So then if there's no further conversation, I'll call the vote. All those in favor?

[4:34:21] Trustee Grove: Aye.

[4:34:23] Trustee Luckham: And that's one, two, three.

[4:34:25] Trustee Luckham: And I'll...

[4:34:26] Trustee Luckham: I think that carries. Any opposed? Sorry. And shout out if I can't see you. Okay, so then that does indeed carry.

[4:34:34] Trustee Luckham: Thank

[4:34:36] Trustee Grove: you. And it looks as if I'm back with audio only.

[4:34:42] Trustee Luckham: Well, thank goodness for that. They were going to hang me. So it's a good thing you

[4:34:46] Trustee Luckham: came back in time to keep sharing. Over to you.

[4:34:49] Trustee Grove: Okay. So that was the climate change one?

[4:34:53] Voice 8: No, that was the stewardship education. Okay.

[4:34:56] Voice 19: Stewardship education. I haven't done the climate change one.

[4:34:59] Voice 19: Okay. So keep

[4:35:00] Trustee Grove: going then. Thank you.

[4:35:02] Voice 19: I'll move that the financial planning

[4:35:06] Voice 19: committee uh recommend to trust council that the um that the uh develop a set of climate change

[4:35:20] Voice 19: performance criteria be removed from the 2021 2022 budget is

[4:35:27] Trustee Grove: there a seconder

[4:35:30] Voice 8: i'm going to second it

[4:35:31] Trustee Grove: thank you sue ellen and any discussion do you wish to speak to your motion mr rogers i

[4:35:38] Voice 19: i spoke to it

[4:35:39] Voice 19: earlier is as i read the business case it's so it's quite unclear to me how we're going to do

[4:35:47] Voice 19: that and i was hoping that claire might be here and talk me out of this but somebody else could

[4:35:53] Voice 19: maybe somebody else can talk me out of it like trustee morrison because i don't understand it

[4:35:59] Voice 19: and it strikes me that it's something that we could postpone for a year but i don't know

[4:36:04] Voice 11: perhaps Mr. Chair the relevant staff person has either at the end when you get your list before

[4:36:10] Voice 11: you vote could provide some insight or they could do it one off but I think Claire's no

[4:36:15] Voice 19: we're voting

[4:36:16] Voice 19: them one but we're voting them one by one Ron

[4:36:18] Voice 11: okay so then let's go I think Claire could speak to

[4:36:20] Voice 11: this are you there Claire uh yes hello

[4:36:25] Trustee Grove: hooray thank you very much um you heard

[4:36:28] Trustee Grove: what you heard

[4:36:29] Trustee Grove: the motion yes

[4:36:30] Voice 18: it would actually be helpful to hear it again before I comment thank you

[4:36:33] Trustee Grove: I

[4:36:34] Voice 19: the motion was simply to remove the develop a set of climate change performance criteria from

[4:36:43] Voice 19: the 2021-2022 budget okay

[4:36:47] Voice 18: so yes this this money was at the request of trust programs committee it

[4:36:51] Voice 18: was intended to act as matching money for a grant that might be put in from an external agency so

[4:36:57] Voice 18: perhaps the my seat of sky was going to put together a grant and then this could be available

[4:37:00] Voice 18: as matching funds I don't see this as critical if we're unable to offer up

[4:37:04] Voice 18: that matching money and it could potentially be offered in a future year

[4:37:08] Voice 18: thank you so

[4:37:09] Voice 18: this I would this I'm not concerned by this thank

[4:37:12] Trustee Grove: you so much

[4:37:13] Trustee Grove: clear so I'm going to call the vote all those thank you trustee so

[4:37:22] Voice 17: I think the

[4:37:24] Voice 17: the only concern I have well it's a concern I have across the board is that um I'm still not sure

[4:37:34] Voice 17: that like as an individual one-on-one I'm struggling with these things so I'm going to

[4:37:38] Voice 17: have to speak to the one-on-one but um so this particular issue comes up again and again when

[4:37:45] Voice 17: we're trying to understand and measure like how we're achieving going toward climate change um

[4:37:50] Voice 17: And when we delay and we push off measures like this, then we get into the circular argument of

[4:37:57] Voice 17: how do we know how we're progressing? So it builds on some work that was done last year by Trust

[4:38:03] Voice 17: Program Services to do some initial indicators, and it potentially will also connect to some

[4:38:08] Voice 17: community work going on on Galliano, and it's expanding out from that, that they're doing some

[4:38:12] Voice 17: grounded-based work there. So I think it's actually a project that potentially can connect into

[4:38:18] Voice 17: community resources to develop local measures and there's an opportunity this year that's like

[4:38:23] Voice 17: evolving inside an existing kind of collaboration so i'm hesitant to remove this i'm hesitant to

[4:38:29] Voice 17: remove many things but i'm hesitant to remove this one potentially more than others okay is

[4:38:36] Trustee Grove: there any other discussion about on this so i'm going to call the vote all those in favor and i'm

[4:38:42] Trustee Grove: in favor? Contrary? Laura Patrick and Deb Morrison.

[4:38:56] Voice 9: Peter Luckham,

[4:38:57] Trustee Grove: you're contrary also?

[4:39:01] Voice 9: So

[4:39:03] Trustee Grove: does that pass? I think just. Have I been abandoned once again?

[4:39:11] Voice 8: No, we're waiting for you.

[4:39:13] Voice 8: So

[4:39:13] Trustee Grove: I believe that carries, correct?

[4:39:16] Voice 8: Yep.

[4:39:17] Trustee Grove: Just.

[4:39:18] Trustee Grove: Thank you.

[4:39:20] Trustee Grove: Just.

[4:39:21] Trustee Grove: Just.

[4:39:23] Trustee Grove: I mean, all these will come up again at Trust Council, I assure you, and then everything will get turned upside down.

[4:39:32] Trustee Grove: It's happened before and it will happen again.

[4:39:35] Trustee Grove: So next, Dan Rogers.

[4:39:39] Voice 19: Well, I'm actually moving out of the surplus area.

[4:39:42] Voice 19: So if there's any other motions related to projects, perhaps we can deal with those before we get to when I move into operations.

[4:39:51] Voice 19: I have a couple of motions in operations.

[4:39:54] Trustee Grove: I believe under governance, we've got governance set for $75,000.

[4:40:00] Voice 19: Yeah, that wasn't my suggestion.

[4:40:02] Trustee Grove: Okay, that's somebody else's. Okay. That was Kate. Kate Louise, that's right.

[4:40:07] Trustee Grove: And you had bylaw communications at them.

[4:40:11] Voice 19: Yeah, but that's the operations.

[4:40:14] Voice 19: You're

[4:40:14] Trustee Grove: right, you're right.

[4:40:15] Trustee Grove: Okay, and broadcast meetings for 19,000?

[4:40:19] Voice 19: Oh, well, and someone can correct me, and Julia can correct me,

[4:40:23] Voice 19: but I'm not quite sure what's being funded as a project

[4:40:26] Voice 19: as opposed to an ongoing expense because it seems to me it's an operation.

[4:40:30] Voice 19: But, Julia, you can correct me if I'm wrong about that.

[4:40:34] Voice 12: Sorry, I missed what project you're referring to?

[4:40:37] Voice 19: Broadcast.

[4:40:38] Voice 19: Broadcast public meetings.

[4:40:40] Voice 12: Yeah, so that will

[4:40:41] Voice 12: be an initiative that is ongoing. The particular costs in next year's budget are associated with the purchase of specific hardware that's needed in order to do that. So that's sort of a, you know, a one-time purchase that can then be used for multiple years. Certainly we can move it over into operations. It's, you know, we could absolutely do that.

[4:41:02] Voice 12: I

[4:41:02] Voice 19: mean, we don't put computer hardware in the surplus funding, or as a project, we put it into operations.

[4:41:10] Voice 19: So I just wondered why we put that there.

[4:41:13] Voice 19: I

[4:41:14] Voice 12: think we just put everything associated with the strategic plan pulling out of surplus in line with what has sort of been historical practice.

[4:41:20] Voice 12: But I

[4:41:21] Trustee Grove: would agree, it makes

[4:41:21] Voice 12: sense to fund it out of operations, I would concur.

[4:41:26] Trustee Grove: Let's get it out of there, Dan.

[4:41:27] Trustee Grove: Okay.

[4:41:29] Voice 19: Then I'll move that the broadcast public meetings line item be moved into the operations

[4:41:38] Voice 19: budget.

[4:41:40] Trustee Grove: Is there a seconder?

[4:41:42] Trustee Luckham: I heard

[4:41:44] Trustee Grove: a groan. Is that Peter Luckham?

[4:41:45] Trustee Luckham: That was Peter Luckham seconding it.

[4:41:47] Trustee Grove: Okay. Thank you. Julia Mobs.

[4:41:51] Voice 12: If I may make a suggestion around the wording with that, I think sort of citing the funding

[4:41:55] Voice 12: source makes more sense as to where it's housed um i would maybe suggest that um you know an

[4:42:01] Voice 12: amendment be made to say that it be funded um out of the operating budget as opposed to from

[4:42:05] Voice 12: surplus funds just making that distinction funded

[4:42:08] Trustee Grove: from

[4:42:09] Voice 12: taxation i

[4:42:11] Trustee Grove: thought that's what i said but

[4:42:12] Trustee Grove: maybe i think that's what you said too um they're all very close to it so are we happy with the

[4:42:19] Trustee Grove: motion everybody that we're voting on yes

[4:42:24] Voice 9: okay

[4:42:25] Trustee Grove: so hang

[4:42:26] Voice 8: on it says uh be removed from the 2021-22

[4:42:32] Voice 8: budget that's not what yeah

[4:42:35] Voice 19: no no yeah that's wrong so i'm sorry is it laurie or robert that's

[4:42:39] Voice 19: doing the meeting i'm

[4:42:40] Voice 14: doing the minutes and i was just going to ask could you please clarify

[4:42:43] Voice 14: what your resolution or your motion

[4:42:44] Voice 19: is please that we rec that we recommend the trust council

[4:42:47] Voice 19: that the broadcast items be removed from the surplus allocations and moved to

[4:42:55] Voice 19: Julia Rob's to the operations budget no you said something else

[4:43:04] Voice 12: sorry I'm just reading what's on

[4:43:06] Voice 12: the screen here so

[4:43:07] Voice 14: um just uh I'm not sure what uh what texts will uh could someone give me some

[4:43:16] Voice 14: direction as to what the motion is please yeah

[4:43:19] Voice 19: we're getting there you've got it so far it's

[4:43:22] Voice 19: It's just I'm waiting for the appropriate place to, because the director gave, said

[4:43:30] Voice 19: that I had worded it wrong or made a suggestion.

[4:43:32] Voice 19: I'm just trying to follow up on that.

[4:43:34] Voice 12: I would just say, recommend that Trust Council fund the broadcasting of meetings from an

[4:43:40] Voice 12: increase in taxation and not from a draw from surplus.

[4:43:44] Trustee Grove: Sorry, I'd say from operations rather than an increase in taxation.

[4:43:48] Trustee Grove: That's just fine.

[4:43:49] Voice 12: Okay,

[4:43:50] Voice 19: so that I'll move that the Financial Planning Committee recommend to Trust Council

[4:43:56] Voice 19: that broadcast meetings be funded from operations.

[4:44:01] Trustee Grove: Okay, and we have a seconder.

[4:44:05] Voice 8: Peter Luckham seconded it before.

[4:44:07] Voice 8: Are you okay with that, Peter?

[4:44:09] Voice 8: Can't hear you.

[4:44:11] Trustee Grove: Peter Luckham, are you seconding it?

[4:44:12] Voice 9: Yes, seconding that.

[4:44:15] Trustee Grove: And any further discussion?

[4:44:19] Trustee Grove: I'll call the vote.

[4:44:21] Trustee Grove: All those in favor?

[4:44:22] Trustee Grove: And I'm voting in favor.

[4:44:24] Voice 9: Okay,

[4:44:26] Trustee Grove: that carries unanimously. Thank you very much.

[4:44:29] Trustee Grove: This is hard work. So now we're into operations. Dan, you've got two possible

[4:44:40] Trustee Grove: motions from operations, the water co-op student and the bylaw communications.

[4:44:47] Voice 19: So I guess I'm of two minds of the water co-op. I'm wondering why it's not being funded out of that grant.

[4:44:53] Voice 19: And I and I and it concerns me, but it isn't.

[4:44:59] Voice 19: So I'm just I'm going to leave it because I if it's an important if it's an important piece of work to be done that that the grant won't happen or will be difficult to deliver without that position, then I will probably change my mind.

[4:45:14] Voice 19: But I wondered why it wasn't funded out of the grant.

[4:45:17] Trustee Grove: Well, who can answer that question?

[4:45:20] Voice 1: Okay yeah so the position is a co-op student and I actually asked the same question

[4:45:29] Voice 1: when we were putting this together. The reasoning is that we wanted to maximize the grant for the

[4:45:38] Voice 1: delivery of the projects that the grant wants to see and part of that is engagement with First

[4:45:46] Voice 1: nations and on the ground shovel ready projects in the community so on the islands so this was

[4:45:53] Voice 1: putting as much of the money on the islands as possible that met the grant and this and to show

[4:45:59] Voice 1: support to the grant because there's a bit of an in-kind um happening here that council could

[4:46:06] Voice 1: provide additional staffing to support that so that's where the co-op was the most cost-effective

[4:46:12] Voice 1: way of doing that and the other part of this is the grant has a very tight time frame we have to

[4:46:19] Voice 1: be completed everything by december 15th so the co-op is key to freeing up the time over the

[4:46:27] Voice 1: summer especially to allow that focus to happen so we meet the deadlines thank

[4:46:35] Voice 19: you i'm not going

[4:46:37] Voice 19: to make a motion related to that i i may come up at trust council but i'll leave it to the rpc but

[4:46:45] Voice 19: But I will move that the by-law communication part-time position be removed from our budget proposal.

[4:46:50] Voice 19: That the FPC recommend to Trust Council that the by-law communications position be removed from the 2021-22 budget.

[4:46:59] Trustee Grove: And is there a seconder?

[4:47:04] Trustee Grove: That's Sue Ellen Fast. Thank you very much.

[4:47:06] Trustee Grove: Do you wish to speak further to your motion?

[4:47:09] Trustee Grove: I just

[4:47:10] Voice 19: say we're adding a by-law.

[4:47:13] Voice 19: I'm supportive of adding a by-law enforcement officer.

[4:47:16] Voice 19: I think that probably the types of things that Trustee Beshaken is aiming for can probably be accommodated within the work that's there with the increased capacity.

[4:47:31] Voice 19: And I think that's probably not the time to add a $35,000 part-time position going forward, maybe the year after if we still see the need.

[4:47:41] Trustee Grove: Thank you. Anybody else got any comments on this one? Peter Luckham.

[4:47:49] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, so I just want to thank Laura for trying to bring this forward.

[4:47:54] Trustee Luckham: But I think that what would be ideal is to have a much clearer case for it and to advance

[4:48:02] Trustee Luckham: it in the next budget.

[4:48:05] Voice 9: And always we should look for new ways to communicate with our communities with respect

[4:48:11] Voice 9: to what the Islands Trust is.

[4:48:13] Voice 9: is and so I will I will support removing this from the budget at this moment.

[4:48:18] Trustee Grove: I just wish to

[4:48:19] Trustee Grove: wish to make a point somebody's I just wish to make a point that just because it's not in the

[4:48:25] Trustee Grove: budget it doesn't mean that it can't come up during the year as if it's a position that we

[4:48:30] Trustee Grove: feel is essential and Deb Morrison you've got something to say. I'm

[4:48:36] Voice 17: more concerned about the

[4:48:41] Voice 17: motion that I see in front of me because it's not quite right and I just want to make sure

[4:48:44] Voice 17: before we're talking about motions that they are right on that thank you

[4:48:48] Trustee Grove: very much for doing that

[4:48:49] Trustee Grove: yeah

[4:48:52] Voice 19: it's not the co-op position it's a uh financial it's the bylaw uh enforcement

[4:48:59] Voice 19: communications position i think that's what it's called reference does isn't it i

[4:49:07] Voice 4: think it's just

[4:49:07] Voice 4: bylaw communications position so

[4:49:14] Trustee Grove: are we happy with the motion now yes okay good i'm going to

[4:49:21] Trustee Grove: to call the vote then hang

[4:49:24] Voice 8: on we've got

[4:49:25] Voice 8: claire with their hand up and laura yeah i'm sorry i was

[4:49:29] Voice 8: trying to find my

[4:49:29] Trustee Patrick: mute i've been waving well

[4:49:31] Trustee Grove: they've uh they've disappeared off my screen

[4:49:33] Trustee Grove: my trouble is my uh there we go yep we're

[4:49:38] Trustee Grove: not doing hands up electronically technology very

[4:49:41] Trustee Grove: frustrating today but anyway there we go i and claire i didn't see your hand up but if you're

[4:49:46] Trustee Grove: are telling me it's up did you want did you wish to speak Claire go ahead we can good okay

[4:49:55] Voice 18: I'm just

[4:49:56] Trustee Grove: happy to

[4:49:57] Voice 18: thank you chair just happy happy to speak to this I'm just

[4:50:00] Voice 18: wanting to remind the

[4:50:01] Voice 18: committee that you've got a business case for a part-time 10-month position certainly we could

[4:50:07] Voice 18: reduce the number of months make it a part-time five-month position for example to save cost

[4:50:11] Voice 18: I was anticipating we might use some of this communications position time towards implementing

[4:50:18] Voice 18: some of the communication actions in the freshwater grant.

[4:50:21] Voice 18: It's not absolutely required,

[4:50:22] Voice 18: but certainly would provide some extra support

[4:50:25] Voice 18: because we are stretched at all times

[4:50:27] Voice 18: with the communication demands

[4:50:28] Voice 18: and the freshwater grant included

[4:50:30] Voice 18: certainly some communication elements within it.

[4:50:32] Voice 18: So that would be just one consideration.

[4:50:35] Voice 18: Otherwise we will make it happen,

[4:50:37] Voice 18: but it would certainly be assistive

[4:50:38] Voice 18: to have some synergy there.

[4:50:40] Voice 18: Thank you, Claire.

[4:50:42] Voice 18: Thank you.

[4:50:43] Trustee Grove: Thank you, and Laura Patrick.

[4:50:44] Trustee Grove: sure

[4:50:45] Trustee Patrick: yeah um i actually support cutting the bylaw enforcement position um because i don't think

[4:50:52] Trustee Patrick: we're being strategic enough on where you know our eyeball we look at like short-term vacation

[4:50:57] Trustee Patrick: rentals we're running around playing whack-a-mole when the better tool is business licenses with the

[4:51:02] Trustee Patrick: crd so we're you know and if they were to implement business license and let them run around

[4:51:07] Trustee Patrick: and they have a they have a license to pull something with teeth um and i look at every

[4:51:13] Trustee Patrick: nearly almost every application I see at every trust committee meeting I chair and sit on

[4:51:18] Trustee Patrick: comes as a result of somebody tripping in the bylaw enforcement you know there's there's few

[4:51:24] Trustee Patrick: deliberates they're almost all accidental trip in and we need to improve our communications

[4:51:30] Trustee Patrick: as much as we can and so I don't support cutting anything toward communications.

[4:51:36] Trustee Patrick: okay

[4:51:38] Trustee Grove: thank you uh russ you can

[4:51:43] Voice 11: see me two things um i asked trust council last time are we good on

[4:51:49] Voice 11: the bylaw enforcement official and you said you were good and so then i made some decisions based

[4:51:55] Voice 11: on that so um that would be stressful um you have collectively increased through proactive

[4:52:07] Voice 11: of enforcement our requirement to have boots on the ground and so if we'd have to take a look at

[4:52:14] Voice 11: moving back from some of that enforcement activity in the short term if we were going to remove that

[4:52:25] Voice 11: position you see we'd have to we'd have to lessen the need to to have those people on the ground so

[4:52:29] Voice 11: that's one thing and the other thought might be and julia helped me out with this i think at the

[4:52:34] Voice 11: the last trust council session we put another live meeting in September back you know trust

[4:52:40] Voice 11: council live meeting back on the docket that's so that $30,000 exists in this current budget

[4:52:46] Voice 11: there might be an opportunity there to you know if we still you know if we 30 90 we have 90 days

[4:52:54] Voice 11: is the pandemic state of emergency still going to be in place by June if it is you could not have

[4:53:01] Voice 11: have an electronic meeting there and maybe save yourself $27,000. But if you did need

[4:53:06] Voice 11: to, we could then fund it from surplus or a budget amendment or something. Is that an

[4:53:12] Voice 11: option? AA, are you interested in that option? And if you are, Julie, you can answer all

[4:53:17] Voice 11: your questions. Thank you.

[4:53:19] Voice 19: Mr. Chair, he stole my next motion.

[4:53:23] Voice 19: Oh, sorry.

[4:53:24] Trustee Grove: Thank you. Peter Luckham and then Dan Rodgers.

[4:53:29] Trustee Grove: Well,

[4:53:30] Voice 4: and this is Laura on the phone.

[4:53:33] Voice 4: Laura Beshaken and I have had my hand up for a while.

[4:53:35] Voice 4: Now I'm

[4:53:36] Trustee Grove: just on the phone.

[4:53:36] Trustee Grove: I can't see your hand, Laura, so you just

[4:53:39] Voice 4: have to speak up.

[4:53:39] Voice 4: That's why I'm butting in.

[4:53:40] Trustee Grove: Thank you.

[4:53:41] Trustee Grove: By the way, what do you have to say, Laura?

[4:53:46] Voice 4: Oh, you want, am I now on the speaker's list?

[4:53:48] Trustee Grove: Yes, you got our attention now.

[4:53:50] Voice 4: Thank you.

[4:53:51] Voice 4: I am going to vote against this.

[4:53:52] Voice 4: I think I've said my case several times about the importance of communications.

[4:53:57] Voice 4: medications and it is like prevention in health it saves money down the road and I do think that

[4:54:04] Voice 4: it's you know trying to I mean yes we need to have strong bylaw enforcement but if we can

[4:54:14] Voice 4: provide education and encouragement to people to follow the bylaws out front we need to do that at

[4:54:21] Voice 4: the same time you can't just be loading on the you know the say the punishment end of things

[4:54:27] Voice 4: I think you really need to work more in an engaging way, and there's such a backlog of communications work that I've talked about elsewhere, and I think we all run into the frustrations of people not understanding how the trust works and what it is and all of that.

[4:54:47] Voice 4: So I continue to believe this position is important. Yes, it could perhaps be cut down further and contained more, but I think it's key. So that's just my piece.

[4:55:03] Trustee Grove: Okay, anything further to discuss? And I wouldn't mind calling the vote on this one. Peter Luckham, go ahead.

[4:55:09] Trustee Luckham: I just want to be certain that we're not talking about cutting the new bylaw enforcement position

[4:55:15] Trustee Luckham: here and I'm guessing that the CAO is only referencing it because he didn't want that

[4:55:20] Trustee Luckham: to come up next or in contrary to this particular motion. I'd just like to

[4:55:27] Trustee Luckham: remember back to Miles Drew and Miles Drew didn't really characterize bylaw enforcement

[4:55:36] Trustee Luckham: enforcement as penalizing or otherwise. It was about communicating apparent conflicts with the

[4:55:46] Trustee Luckham: bylaw and educating them and then seeking compliance. And so I believe that each bylaw

[4:55:53] Trustee Luckham: enforcement officer, and hopefully the new people that come on stage, it would be in their best

[4:55:57] Trustee Luckham: interest to also do that proactive education as we move forward and assist us in that. And so I

[4:56:03] Trustee Luckham: think that role could to some extent be uh picked up there um and um and uh so yeah let's just say

[4:56:12] Trustee Luckham: those things thank

[4:56:13] Trustee Grove: you very much and i'm now going to call the vote please that's um can somebody

[4:56:17] Trustee Grove: read the motion out i can't see it is

[4:56:22] Trustee Luckham: it on the screen yeah

[4:56:23] Trustee Grove: okay um that

[4:56:26] Voice 19: financial planning

[4:56:27] Voice 19: committee recommend to trust council that the bylaw communications position be removed from the

[4:56:34] Voice 19: budget that's

[4:56:35] Trustee Grove: been moved and seconded so i'm going to call the vote all those in favor and

[4:56:39] Trustee Grove: i'm voting in favor two three four one two three four and five that's five including myself i

[4:56:49] Trustee Grove: believe in favor is that correct staff yes okay so that pass is just point of order

[4:56:59] Voice 17: yes go ahead

[4:57:01] Trustee Grove: you

[4:57:02] Voice 17: need to ask for people opposed to yes

[4:57:04] Trustee Grove: please people those opposed so one

[4:57:08] Trustee Grove: me

[4:57:09] Voice 4: laura laura beshaken

[4:57:10] Trustee Grove: and laura okay one two three opposed all right

[4:57:16] Voice 4: other two were i can't see you to

[4:57:20] Voice 19: alan and laura patrick okay thanks

[4:57:25] Voice 19: and i'm sorry moving i can't

[4:57:31] Trustee Grove: hear you i

[4:57:33] Voice 19: i said just keep it's move move you can't hear me

[4:57:37] Voice 19: now

[4:57:37] Trustee Grove: i can uh

[4:57:40] Voice 19: i have one more motion and then i'll turn it over to somebody else which is i move that

[4:57:44] Trustee Grove: sorry then we should have a motion from kate louise i believe i

[4:57:50] Voice 19: move that that financial

[4:57:52] Voice 19: planning committee recommend to trust council actually this might be the executive committee's

[4:57:57] Voice 19: role but that the september trust council be held electronically and the budget be

[4:58:03] Voice 19: amended accordingly i mean that's but is that really an fpc role um it seems to me that might

[4:58:10] Voice 19: be an ec recommendation no we can make that we can make the recommendation second i

[4:58:16] Voice 19: mean i think

[4:58:17] Voice 19: that's good it's going to be the and i'm sorry robert i know that was long um that the september

[4:58:23] Voice 19: trust council uh meeting be held electronically and the budget be adjusted accordingly

[4:58:30] Voice 19: okay

[4:58:31] Trustee Grove: that's moved and seconded by sue ellen fast thank you very much that seems like a good idea

[4:58:36] Trustee Grove: to me um any further discussion all those on

[4:58:41] Trustee Luckham: the screen it's it's there okay good thank you

[4:58:50] Trustee Grove: yeah yeah so all those in favor and i'm voting in favor hi

[4:58:57] Voice 8: and

[4:58:58] Trustee Grove: that's um any and contrary

[4:59:03] Voice 4: oh

[4:59:04] Trustee Grove: sorry laura how are you voting i'm

[4:59:07] Voice 4: gonna vote against this i think if we can meet in person

[4:59:09] Voice 4: and it would be really valuable well

[4:59:11] Trustee Grove: yes always so and it's nice to have one contrary just to

[4:59:15] Trustee Grove: make it all look balanced um anyway

[4:59:17] Trustee Luckham: so so council can put it back yeah

[4:59:21] Trustee Grove: absolutely thank you so much

[4:59:23] Trustee Grove: so that um that that passes and now kate louise i believe you're going to make a motion i move

[4:59:31] Voice 6: that the financial planning committee recommend to trust council that the governance review

[4:59:39] Voice 6: review be removed from the budget and

[4:59:44] Trustee Grove: is there a seconder

[4:59:45] Voice 6: I'll second it for discussion

[4:59:46] Trustee Grove: okay

[4:59:48] Trustee Grove: Sue Ellen's got it ahead of you Laura but um I

[4:59:51] Voice 6: just like to speak to it yes please do

[4:59:55] Voice 6: I I do recognize that this is um could be seen as

[5:00:00] Voice 6: political i'm simply looking at it that if the trust council sees this as that sees um our

[5:00:08] Voice 6: surplus removal reduction as important that this is a project that largely has not been started yet

[5:00:19] Voice 6: and uh it is a fair amount of money and that it should be at least considered thank

[5:00:26] Trustee Grove: you very much

[5:00:26] Trustee Grove: and so Peter Luckham.

[5:00:30] Trustee Luckham: Yeah you know I think this is more political than

[5:00:37] Trustee Luckham: financial planning committee should be. This was a recent decision of council

[5:00:44] Trustee Luckham: and I think that this would be best left alone because the questions about

[5:00:53] Trustee Luckham: about re-debating a motion of council will come up.

[5:00:59] Trustee Luckham: If it ended up on the floor at council,

[5:01:01] Trustee Luckham: I would be much more content

[5:01:03] Trustee Luckham: than it coming from this committee.

[5:01:06] Trustee Luckham: I won't support it.

[5:01:07] Trustee Luckham: I totally understand.

[5:01:09] Trustee Grove: Okay, I can live with that.

[5:01:11] Trustee Grove: My feeling was that it should be put to council

[5:01:15] Trustee Grove: that I can see where you're coming from.

[5:01:18] Trustee Grove: I actually, I know you say it's political.

[5:01:20] Trustee Grove: I don't consider it political.

[5:01:22] Trustee Grove: I just consider it as straight common sense.

[5:01:25] Trustee Grove: We're trying to make some cuts here

[5:01:27] Trustee Grove: and this is not an essential operation.

[5:01:31] Trustee Grove: I don't think, Deb Morrison.

[5:01:35] Voice 17: And I have to push back on what's political and what isn't.

[5:01:39] Voice 17: Everything has some value judgment about what's important.

[5:01:42] Voice 17: Everything

[5:01:42] Voice 16: on the list that we have.

[5:01:45] Voice 17: And so, and like, there are things that I'm like

[5:01:49] Voice 17: I'm deeply attached to communication

[5:01:51] Voice 17: education but like understanding and to education engagement like literally that's my professional

[5:01:57] Voice 17: life so like it's not about necessarily like everything is value is what I'm trying to say

[5:02:04] Voice 17: so and we're trying to make those judgment values and my my value for this budget is that yes we

[5:02:11] Voice 17: might try and trim and like get closer to that like ratio that we're looking at I don't think

[5:02:16] Voice 17: we're going to get under it necessarily and and i would ask us just to be really honest about like

[5:02:21] Voice 17: how we're putting things forward i agree with chair luckham that if you want to have this

[5:02:26] Voice 17: removed from the budget it should be a motion at trust council i think coming back from financial

[5:02:29] Voice 17: planning council with this is the thing that's cut it's going to be like fire and brimstone in

[5:02:35] Voice 17: that space and i think that you want to bring

[5:02:37] Voice 17: that forward isn't it as a trustee in that space

[5:02:39] Voice 17: Thank

[5:02:40] Trustee Grove: you. I will speak. Yeah, I agree with that. So we've got, it's been moved and seconded.

[5:02:49] Voice 4: And I would like to speak to Laura.

[5:02:51] Trustee Grove: Okay. I'm trying to move this along and I get the impression that this is not going to pass,

[5:02:57] Trustee Grove: but certainly go ahead, Laura.

[5:03:00] Voice 4: Well, I mean, I'm prepared to vote in favor of this. I think I take the point,

[5:03:05] Voice 4: everything is political. The decision about how we spend money and make a budget and use

[5:03:10] Voice 4: resources is the most political thing we do and um and at the same time we are looking at money

[5:03:17] Voice 4: and what is affordable and i think it's not as a financial planning committee member i i want all

[5:03:24] Voice 4: these things to happen and i also want us to deal with our surplus responsibly and 75 000 is a lot

[5:03:32] Voice 4: of money um for a major piece of work and maybe because we are looking hard at our budget i think

[5:03:39] Voice 4: Like the other things I voted in favor of suggesting we cut, this is something that could be postponed for a year.

[5:03:48] Voice 4: It is not urgent.

[5:03:50] Voice 4: There's various reasons I think it would work well if it was postponed for a year.

[5:03:55] Voice 4: And it is a financial decision.

[5:03:57] Voice 4: And I don't think it's more, I don't know.

[5:04:01] Voice 4: know I don't see what would be more inflammatory coming from FPC as part of that overall look at

[5:04:05] Voice 4: our budget where we're comparing every line item against another line item rather than coming from

[5:04:11] Voice 4: an individual trustee as a separate motion at council so I think it actually belongs here

[5:04:16] Voice 4: thank

[5:04:17] Trustee Grove: you Laura that's actually very helpful Sue Ellen Fast yeah

[5:04:21] Voice 8: I agree I think all of these

[5:04:23] Voice 8: things have been in front of council before and we're voted on at the last trust council meeting

[5:04:29] Voice 8: and we're making recommendations to do with spending and and also services and

[5:04:38] Voice 8: the work we're trying to do and I think other things in the budget would advance

[5:04:44] Voice 8: the work of Islands Trust more so I think it's realistic to put this on as

[5:04:53] Voice 8: an option and I'll be voting for it thank you thank

[5:04:56] Trustee Grove: you so much I'm going to

[5:04:57] Trustee Grove: to call the question unless you okay we've got laura

[5:04:59] Trustee Patrick: patrick and laura

[5:05:00] Trustee Grove: patrick and kate louise

[5:05:02] Trustee Grove: um

[5:05:03] Trustee Patrick: i was gonna say i'm going to vote in favor for the arguments that the last two speakers

[5:05:07] Trustee Patrick: basically said is when the motion was made before it was made in isolation and this is looking at

[5:05:12] Trustee Patrick: the complete picture and i think this is just gives a chance to look at it again with a complete

[5:05:18] Trustee Patrick: picture thank

[5:05:19] Trustee Grove: you laura kate louise um

[5:05:21] Voice 6: it just finally to say that if we didn't put it out

[5:05:24] Voice 6: uh this in a similar way that we're doing other very worthy projects uh i think it would be

[5:05:31] Voice 6: political then but we need to consider this as a finance committee these if it's considered

[5:05:38] Voice 6: important to reduce that withdrawal from surplus that this at least be considered by uh trust

[5:05:44] Voice 6: council um thank

[5:05:47] Trustee Grove: you that makes sense so i'm going to call the vote and i am voting in favor

[5:05:52] Trustee Grove: In favor.

[5:05:58] Trustee Grove: So this is in favor. We've got Fast, Morrison. No, Morrison, your hands up, not up.

[5:06:06] Trustee Grove: Luckham, no. Mushekin, Stanford, Patrick, Grove. That's five, I believe. Is that correct?

[5:06:19] Trustee Grove: Call

[5:06:20] Trustee Luckham: for those opposed, just in case.

[5:06:23] Trustee Grove: Who's opposed? Opposed, one. Morrison, Rogers.

[5:06:29] Trustee Grove: just two. And Luckum. And Luckum, okay. See that adds up to eight, so that's a good sign,

[5:06:38] Trustee Grove: that's what we are. Thank you, the motion passes. And that was a very interesting,

[5:06:43] Trustee Grove: worthwhile debate, I think.

[5:06:45] Voice 9: Thank you, everyone.

[5:06:47] Trustee Grove: Okay, so I guess the word punchy applies here.

[5:06:57] Trustee Grove: as far as I'm concerned um so um Julia where are we help me um coffee

[5:07:08] Trustee Luckham: time should

[5:07:09] Trustee Grove: we have a

[5:07:10] Trustee Grove: should we have a little break I've lost you all um I'm

[5:07:16] Voice 9: finding this I would find five minute recess

[5:07:19] Voice 9: okay

[5:07:20] Trustee Grove: has

[5:07:21] Voice 17: her hand up yeah I'm unfortunately I'm gonna have to leave the meeting I'm just

[5:07:26] Voice 17: wanting to check on quorum are we dropping below quorum if I do that no

[5:07:30] Trustee Grove: we're fine where's

[5:07:31] Trustee Grove: Because we're eight here now.

[5:07:34] Trustee Grove: Okay.

[5:07:35] Trustee Grove: So.

[5:07:37] Voice 17: Sorry,

[5:07:37] Trustee Grove: I only have

[5:07:38] Voice 17: the meeting scheduled until three.

[5:07:39] Voice 17: And I have complex now for the rest of the day.

[5:07:41] Voice 17: So, bye.

[5:07:42] Trustee Luckham: Bye.

[5:07:43] Trustee Luckham: I'm going to leave at a quarter to five.

[5:07:45] Trustee Grove: Well, that would be a good time to end anyway.

[5:07:50] Voice 19: Surely we can get done before then.

[5:07:52] Trustee Grove: Yeah.

[5:07:52] Trustee Grove: Thank you very much.

[5:07:53] Trustee Grove: I'll do my best.

[5:07:54] Trustee Grove: And if you will, too.

[5:08:02] Trustee Grove: So, where are we, Mr. Chair?

[5:08:05] Trustee Grove: We are on a five-minute break.

[5:08:07] Trustee Grove: Okay.

[5:08:08] Voice 4: Okay. Okay. And I just, as we go on, I was muted. I just want to say that the, you know, our groaning about being tired is not in any way a comment on the chairing and handling of the meeting. You're actually doing a great job, Chair Grove. These are just, it's a really complex thing we're doing. It is very complex. And I think in some ways, as I've said, we're at this turning point after like years and years and years of sort of relying on our surplus.

[5:08:36] Voice 4: plus. We're in COVID. We're in climate change. It's difficult. So we're not complaining about

[5:08:44] Voice 4: the sharing.

[5:08:44] Trustee Grove: No, no, I appreciate it. Thank you. I am complaining because I'm very frustrated with

[5:08:48] Trustee Grove: the lack of technology communications. I don't know what's going on here. And it's very frustrating

[5:08:55] Trustee Grove: trying to operate like this. But anyway, I appreciate your comments. Thank you.

[5:09:00] Trustee Grove: And so far, I haven't burst into tears.

[5:09:07] Voice 14: David, are you there? You are present.

[5:09:14] Voice 1: I'm here. Oh, I didn't realize my video was on. I was busy doing other things.

[5:09:19] Voice 14: As I need to leave now, I'm going to make you the host.

[5:09:23] Voice 1: Okay. Thank you, Robert.

[5:09:25] Voice 14: And the only thing I need is to make sure when the meeting is adjourned that you stop the recording and stop the broadcasting and stop the live streaming.

[5:09:34] Voice 1: Yeah, I see the buttons. So I'm good to do that once we're finished.

[5:09:38] Voice 1: So thank

[5:09:38] Voice 14: you, Robert, for...

[5:09:39] Voice 14: It's basically the stop recording is on the bottom

[5:09:42] Voice 14: and then under the three buttons under more,

[5:09:45] Voice 14: you can find the live streaming to stop that.

[5:09:49] Voice 14: And Nancy, are you going to be able to show motions on the fly?

[5:09:54] Voice 1: Is that Nancy doing that?

[5:09:58] Voice 14: We'll have to find someone

[5:09:59] Voice 14: as the committee needs some support in that.

[5:10:03] Voice 1: Is Nancy available? Is she there?

[5:10:06] Voice 1: there?

[5:10:07] Voice 14: She was there, but I don't hear from her.

[5:10:11] Voice 1: Okay, if not, I can share my screen. Who shared,

[5:10:14] Voice 1: is this your screen right now that's being shared, Robert?

[5:10:17] Voice 14: No, it's Nancy's.

[5:10:19] Voice 1: Oh, so Nancy's doing the

[5:10:20] Voice 1: screen share. But once I

[5:10:22] Voice 14: make you the host, you can take it over immediately?

[5:10:25] Voice 1: Yeah, okay. Yeah,

[5:10:28] Voice 1: if Nancy wants to keep sharing the screen and she can pull up the resolutions, that'd be fine.

[5:10:34] Voice 1: yeah

[5:10:35] Voice 14: you're now the host so uh when you um if she's showing the agenda and you want to show

[5:10:40] Voice 14: your screen for motions on the floor fly although you can take it immediately yeah you don't have

[5:10:46] Voice 1: yeah

[5:10:47] Voice 14: yeah that's right and then when you close okay there's nothing more i do i didn't realize

[5:10:52] Voice 14: the meeting was going to go this late i had to i have something else i have to deal with

[5:10:57] Voice 1: oh yeah no that's totally fine robert um i didn't think it was going to go this late either i had a

[5:11:02] Voice 1: meeting at three o'clock that i had to cancel so right yeah all right well you get to wherever you

[5:11:07] Voice 1: need to go and appreciate this i can see the controls here so everything's good yeah and just

[5:11:12] Voice 14: the key for me is is the recording keeps going so that i can hear and be able

[5:11:17] Voice 14: to pick up the

[5:11:18] Voice 14: minutes later and

[5:11:19] Voice 1: if you could

[5:11:20] Voice 14: flip to me the your resolutions that you make and they don't have to

[5:11:24] Voice 14: to be as you know as formal as that but that'll work that's great thanks okay thank

[5:11:30] Voice 1: you sir all

[5:11:31] Voice 14: right

[5:11:32] Voice 1: take care thank you okay

[5:14:08] Trustee Grove: i'm back who else is back either i see suelen and laura and laura

[5:14:14] Trustee Grove: the two lauras you know it's quite funny you two um you're uh watching you on my screen that's

[5:14:20] Trustee Grove: laura patrick and laura who shaken you look as if you're sitting at the same table looking at the

[5:14:25] Trustee Grove: same thing it's weird quite cute really and trustee stamford you've got the the light of

[5:14:31] Trustee Grove: the lord shining on you can't see

[5:14:35] Voice 16: your face okay

[5:14:40] Trustee Grove: and i guess uh our it department will

[5:14:45] Trustee Grove: enjoy fixing me up again i thought they fixed me up yesterday but it doesn't seem to be the case

[5:14:50] Trustee Grove: so um back to work julia are you there that would be the end there she is

[5:14:59] Voice 12: i am back i would not miss

[5:15:01] Voice 12: this for the world i

[5:15:02] Voice 11: thought that i thought that was it mr chair i thought we lost julia for good

[5:15:05] Voice 11: Good. No, no.

[5:15:08] Trustee Grove: Yes, there's professionalism. That is, I mean, just run away, just run away, be like that.

[5:15:17] Trustee Grove: Okay, so, unbelievable, we got through all those motions. Where are we at? Are we, have we finished?

[5:15:25] Trustee Grove: What page are we at? I think we're at, Julia, where do you think we're at?

[5:15:33] Voice 8: Chair Groves, I thought you were going to make a motion.

[5:15:41] Trustee Grove: Mr.

[5:15:43] Voice 19: Chair, I think we were going through the business cases for strategic plan projects

[5:15:49] Voice 19: and staffing.

[5:15:50] Voice 19: I think we've done that.

[5:15:51] Voice 16: I think

[5:15:51] Voice 19: we're at 4.7.4.3 and then 4.7.4.4 to consider those and whether there's any

[5:16:03] Voice 19: we want to and then I would I will once we've been discussed those I'll make a motion to

[5:16:09] Voice 19: forward all this to trust council

[5:16:11] Trustee Grove: thank you I think that's where we are also we got LTC

[5:16:15] Trustee Grove: projects request over five thousand dollars Julia um that's on page 265 we're starting

[5:16:20] Trustee Grove: do you want to um take us through those um quickly I

[5:16:26] Voice 12: don't think I'm best positioned to

[5:16:28] Voice 12: do that I would turn that over to director Marler who's um will be able to speak to that

[5:16:33] Voice 12: much better than i would and

[5:16:34] Trustee Grove: and director mala is running the show right now at least the

[5:16:37] Trustee Grove: technology so that's can you handle that director mala i

[5:16:41] Voice 1: hope so yeah i'm here okay um yeah so the

[5:16:45] Voice 1: business case here is for the ganges village project is this the correct agenda item or am

[5:16:51] Voice 1: i in the wrong place we

[5:16:53] Trustee Grove: should be on page 265

[5:16:55] Voice 1: and it's you're right i'm correct

[5:16:58] Voice 1: yep i'm in the right

[5:17:00] Voice 1: place, thank you. Yeah, so the business case lays out the rationale for the dollars requested,

[5:17:09] Voice 1: which is $97,000 per fiscal year 2021-2022. It's a major project, has a project charter,

[5:17:18] Voice 1: and it's a multi-year project to do significant work in the Ganges Village area on Salt Spring

[5:17:25] Voice 1: Island. So I'll just leave it with that. If there's any further questions, I'll try and answer them.

[5:17:32] Voice 12: I'll just add this project is funded out of the LTC projects budget which is coming out of the LTC project specific reserve fund. So again, this is a project funded from surplus funds surplus funds.

[5:17:45] Voice 12: Thank you.

[5:17:47] Trustee Grove: So any concerns discussion. Otherwise we'll just press on.

[5:17:59] Trustee Grove: Okay on to, thank you very much, on to the next page. Julia you lead us through this please.

[5:18:07] Voice 12: So I'll be casting

[5:18:08] Trustee Grove: this one. David are you going to take us through all of these?

[5:18:11] Voice 1: I'll take you through the local planning ones. This one is from the Salt Spring Island Local

[5:18:15] Voice 1: Trust Committee and it is for the Housing Action Program. Again it's a multi-year

[5:18:22] Voice 1: project starting in 2021 with a $45,000 budget and an estimate of $25,000 for the following

[5:18:31] Voice 1: fiscal year. It's a relatively late item. The Salt Spring Local Trust Committee

[5:18:36] Voice 1: considered this and passed a resolution not too long ago. So you haven't seen this one previously.

[5:18:44] Trustee Grove: Sorry, it's not in the package? Yes. What page is it on?

[5:18:51] Trustee Grove: page

[5:18:52] Voice 8: 270 yeah

[5:18:54] Trustee Grove: 270 thank you okay thank you got it if

[5:19:01] Voice 12: i may mr chair it's julia please

[5:19:03] Trustee Grove: yes uh so

[5:19:05] Voice 12: the business case is here for financial planning committee to review the dollars for this project

[5:19:10] Voice 12: are currently not included in the draft budget that you've been reviewing today and that's because

[5:19:16] Voice 12: it was a late item um so if fpc is planning to recommend that trust council um fund this in the

[5:19:23] Voice 12: next fiscal year we'll need a motion to that to add it into the budget um

[5:19:32] Trustee Grove: so i'm looking for um

[5:19:35] Trustee Grove: a motion if somebody wants to do that laura patrick well

[5:19:39] Trustee Patrick: i'll make a motion for discussion

[5:19:41] Trustee Patrick: purposes and then we can carry on um i move that the uh how do you want to call it a business case

[5:19:49] Trustee Patrick: or do you want the dollar amount what would what what is the preference um

[5:19:54] Trustee Grove: we call it the housing

[5:19:55] Trustee Grove: action program.

[5:19:57] Voice 1: Could I just suggest that you say that moving second the financial planning committee

[5:20:04] Voice 1: include $45,000 for the housing initiatives program in the 2021-22 budget. For the housing

[5:20:14] Trustee Patrick: action program in the 2021-22 yes.

[5:20:19] Trustee Grove: So for $45,000 okay we got that written down.

[5:20:23] Voice 4: Spring housing

[5:20:25] Voice 4: Laura Paterson, Housing Action Program to differentiate it.

[5:20:29] Voice 4: Laura Paterson, yeah whoever

[5:20:32] Trustee Grove: was speaking, you cut out completely.

[5:20:37] Voice 8: Laura Paterson, That was Laura asking if we could include the word salt spring.

[5:20:40] Voice 8: Laura Paterson, In the morning, yes, make

[5:20:42] Voice 8: it clear, thank

[5:20:43] Trustee Grove: you so with anyone like to second that motion i'll

[5:20:52] Voice 8: second it for discussion, thank you, I

[5:20:54] Voice 8: don't know very much about it

[5:20:56] Trustee Grove: Okay, thank you very much Laura Patrick.

[5:20:59] Trustee Grove: um

[5:20:59] Trustee Patrick: well i just want to discuss i mean i tried flogging to i mean one i'm i'm sensitive to the

[5:21:06] Trustee Patrick: housing and because i'm gabriola we followed gabriola's project almost almost verbatim we

[5:21:12] Trustee Patrick: took some liberties and making it better of course but uh the work is um um related and

[5:21:20] Trustee Patrick: i'm very sensitive to wanting to see housing work be done uh from a regional standpoint as

[5:21:28] Trustee Patrick: as much as possible, and that this is about drawing

[5:21:32] Trustee Patrick: and sharing and working together.

[5:21:34] Trustee Patrick: We made sure that those principles were specifically

[5:21:36] Trustee Patrick: in there, that this isn't just Salt Spring going rogue.

[5:21:38] Trustee Patrick: The problem here is severe.

[5:21:40] Trustee Patrick: Now, there is a chance for other funding.

[5:21:44] Trustee Patrick: Just a few weeks ago, with the COVID relief funding,

[5:21:47] Trustee Patrick: island businesses made it clear to the government

[5:21:50] Trustee Patrick: that you can give us all the money you want on the planet.

[5:21:52] Trustee Patrick: We can't hire anybody.

[5:21:54] Trustee Patrick: There is nowhere for people to live.

[5:21:56] Trustee Patrick: There is zero.

[5:21:58] Trustee Patrick: I have people crying every day to me, you know, long-term managers of banks and things that

[5:22:04] Trustee Patrick: don't have a place to live. The Islands Trust employee on this project cannot live on Salt

[5:22:11] Trustee Patrick: Springs. So, you know, we have a chronic problem across our islands and there is potential if we

[5:22:19] Trustee Patrick: We wanted to go for potential funding opportunities

[5:22:26] Trustee Patrick: through the COVID relief funding

[5:22:28] Trustee Patrick: to work on island housing issues,

[5:22:31] Trustee Patrick: but I couldn't get any interest.

[5:22:33] Trustee Patrick: I told every trustee I possibly could think of

[5:22:35] Trustee Patrick: that this was something we could work on and nobody moved,

[5:22:40] Trustee Patrick: but there's a chance to potentially go after more funding.

[5:22:47] Trustee Grove: Trustee Beshekin.

[5:22:48] Trustee Grove: um

[5:22:50] Voice 4: yeah um i mean i've been following this um the development i've been you know following what's

[5:22:57] Voice 4: going on around these housing uh attempts to address housing and you know i would love to

[5:23:04] Voice 4: vote in favor of this but um there's almost a hundred thousand dollars going to a salt spring

[5:23:11] Voice 4: island special project the first time ever anything like that has been funded in that way

[5:23:17] Voice 4: and it's a new model of working and I just we talked about fair allocation of resources and

[5:23:23] Voice 4: and we do have to keep that in mind and I think that there's maybe a big opportunity here and a

[5:23:32] Voice 4: need to dig deeper and and maybe look for some funding and do a regional approach I mean I know

[5:23:36] Voice 4: Denman Island is is the LTC and the community are very interested in doing a project like this I

[5:23:43] Voice 4: I know that Gabriela's is kind of in a they have a 12 year timeline to get everything done because I don't know why.

[5:23:51] Voice 4: But, you know, it could be several of these could be wrapped up in something that is done by the regional planning team and that is funded by grant and that is done in a in a way that is, you know, happening on each island with a little bit of fine tuning.

[5:24:09] Voice 4: But at this point, I just I couldn't vote in favor of it.

[5:24:13] Voice 4: I mean, I had many discussions with staff over the last month or two around bringing something like this forward from Denman and decided it's too late in the budget cycle and not appropriate and probably not going to turn out well.

[5:24:30] Voice 4: So I'm happy to work more with you, Trustee Patrick, or with staff on looking at maybe some of that funding or a regional approach, but I just can't vote in favor of just adding to the budget as it is right now.

[5:24:48] Trustee Grove: Thank you, Laura Bushaken, that is, and to Patrick, of course. Peter Luckham. You're on mute, Peter. Peter, you're on mute.

[5:25:00] Trustee Grove: Yeah,

[5:25:01] Trustee Luckham: I got it. I'm inclined to want to be in favor of this, of course. But from an objective

[5:25:07] Trustee Luckham: perspective, I would say that there's nothing that doesn't preclude this from being a regional

[5:25:15] Trustee Luckham: project. And I think the intention here is that it very much be influential in terms of a regional

[5:25:22] Trustee Luckham: project. And what would preclude this becoming a regional project if funding wasn't met.

[5:25:28] Trustee Luckham: and so I think that housing in the Southern Gulf Islands is significant enough to warrant putting

[5:25:35] Trustee Luckham: some additional money in it and certainly Salt Spring can help with that.

[5:25:42] Trustee Grove: I have a question for

[5:25:44] Trustee Grove: Laura Patrick if I may. Laura where does this is this is the top top priority for the Salt

[5:25:53] Trustee Grove: Spring Island Local Trust Committee so where does this fit with that?

[5:25:56] Trustee Patrick: This is the funding that was

[5:25:59] Trustee Patrick: was approved by the local trust committee

[5:26:01] Trustee Patrick: as part of the project charter.

[5:26:03] Trustee Grove: So we need this funding in order to move ahead

[5:26:06] Trustee Grove: with our top priority, right?

[5:26:08] Trustee Patrick: That's correct.

[5:26:09] Trustee Patrick: Or we have to tell the people that nothing's happening.

[5:26:12] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, yeah.

[5:26:13] Trustee Grove: And so I find myself in a position

[5:26:16] Trustee Grove: of having to vote for this.

[5:26:17] Trustee Grove: I think so it's a very worthwhile

[5:26:23] Trustee Grove: and I'm hoping that the CRD will be very much involved

[5:26:28] Trustee Grove: in this whole exercise, which I believe they are.

[5:26:32] Trustee Grove: correct dora this

[5:26:35] Trustee Patrick: project is aimed at the tools islands trust has available to them yeah

[5:26:41] Trustee Grove: any further discussion yes dan rogers yes we're

[5:26:48] Voice 19: in a ironic position where three of our remaining

[5:26:51] Voice 19: seven trustees are all in the salt spring local trust committee um which is fine i mean this will

[5:26:58] Voice 19: end up being debated at trust council um i i find myself uh unfortunately very much on like trustee

[5:27:06] Voice 19: bushaken is is uh sitting um saying i i just can't i can't add 45 000 when we just proposed

[5:27:15] Voice 19: to remove a bunch of projects that i think are very worthwhile um and and just the only place

[5:27:23] Voice 19: to fund this would be out of the the uh the local trust committee surplus which means that it would

[5:27:30] Voice 19: go we'd be or reserve or whatever it's called and that means we'd be increasing the we'd be adding

[5:27:36] Voice 19: to the putting something back into the surplus funding i'm guessing just not if i'm correct uh

[5:27:42] Voice 19: director mobs and um yes so i i can't support it i'm sorry

[5:27:50] Trustee Grove: laura patrick yeah

[5:27:52] Trustee Patrick: i know i knew i knew

[5:27:53] Trustee Patrick: this is going to be a discussion but i'm just going to warn you it's going to set off a whole

[5:27:57] Trustee Patrick: lot of emotions just so you know but these are big issues these are huge problems and we have

[5:28:05] Trustee Patrick: a planning deficit that is why salt spring is asking for these things it's we are behind and

[5:28:11] Trustee Patrick: the problems are getting bigger sue

[5:28:13] Trustee Grove: ellen yeah

[5:28:14] Voice 8: i'm i just uh i take your point um vice chair

[5:28:19] Voice 8: Patrick that the it's a huge problem affordable housing on many of the Gulf Islands and many many

[5:28:26] Voice 8: other communities in BC and across Canada and uh I think it's getting worse it's I think it's one

[5:28:32] Voice 8: of the downloaded things and it's one of these things that I I don't think that the uh that

[5:28:38] Voice 8: $45,000 from our uh taxpayers who were trying to save uh their ability to be flexible and

[5:28:46] Voice 8: and affordable and stayed living on the islands,

[5:28:48] Voice 8: I don't know if that's gonna help.

[5:28:51] Voice 8: I would welcome seeing something regional

[5:28:53] Voice 8: come forward next year.

[5:28:55] Voice 8: That's it.

[5:28:56] Voice 8: Can I

[5:28:57] Trustee Patrick: just add one more point?

[5:28:58] Trustee Patrick: Yes, please do.

[5:28:59] Trustee Patrick: This isn't just about dealing with affordable housing.

[5:29:01] Trustee Patrick: This is housing.

[5:29:02] Trustee Patrick: This is looking at all of our housing,

[5:29:04] Trustee Patrick: how we build housing in the Islands Trust.

[5:29:05] Trustee Patrick: We are creating the unaffordability

[5:29:09] Trustee Patrick: by the single family home, big lot, destroying the forests.

[5:29:13] Trustee Patrick: so this project is about the whole enchilada looking at how houses are built and dealing with

[5:29:20] Trustee Patrick: you know the result of housing from a complete so that's why the word affordable isn't in this

[5:29:26] Trustee Patrick: at all thank you thank you i'm tired

[5:29:29] Trustee Grove: and then i wish to speak um

[5:29:32] Voice 6: i'm just um the timing is so

[5:29:35] Voice 6: bad on this why did it come in at this point and rather than earlier in the the budget cycle

[5:29:41] Voice 6: go it

[5:29:43] Trustee Patrick: took a while for a project charter to come to the local trust committee the this has been

[5:29:50] Trustee Patrick: underway that kovat did slow things down we got caught up laura

[5:29:55] Trustee Grove: boucher and then i'll speak

[5:29:56] Trustee Grove: okay

[5:29:58] Voice 4: and just briefly like

[5:30:00] Voice 4: it breaks my heart to speak against funding a housing action initiative because it's been a

[5:30:06] Voice 4: focus of mine ever since I became a trustee and much before that in my dealings with the trust

[5:30:11] Voice 4: and I want to see this go ahead but it needs to be done with more regional sensitivity and

[5:30:17] Voice 4: if this really isn't just about Salt Spring then that the motion needs to say that because

[5:30:22] Voice 4: just saying oh this will be great for the whole region so it'll be an example

[5:30:26] Voice 4: every single project is available as a great example for the whole region and we learn from

[5:30:33] Voice 4: it and can um uh you know do a better job on the next project but that's not enough and i

[5:30:40] Voice 4: like i don't have the i do have the budget in front of me but i haven't found the right spot

[5:30:45] Voice 4: but i think denman usually our our project budget is three to five thousand dollars a year so let's

[5:30:52] Voice 4: say, I don't know, but it's about $5,000 for this budget. You know, if I add this budget with

[5:30:59] Voice 4: the Ganges Village Plan budget, I would have to say to, and I have people crying to me every day

[5:31:06] Voice 4: too, I would have to go back and say, yeah, I voted in favor of a budget for Salt Spring that

[5:31:12] Voice 4: is 25 to 30 times more than the project budget for Denman, and we don't have any money to do

[5:31:20] Voice 4: a housing review this year which is I told them last year but without the preamble and

[5:31:27] Voice 4: that just I can't that just doesn't feel right like we need to find a way to do this that is

[5:31:34] Voice 4: more equitable across the island I mean across the island across the region and as I say I'm

[5:31:40] Voice 4: willing to work on finding a way to do that but I I can't go I couldn't go out not that I go out

[5:31:46] Voice 4: much. I couldn't go out in the community and defend voting in favor of that. I'm very sorry

[5:31:53] Voice 4: on behalf of the Salt Spring community, but this is the challenge we are having with our planning

[5:32:00] Voice 4: resources.

[5:32:01] Trustee Grove: If I may speak, you talk about the region. I think it was Laura. Well, Salt Spring

[5:32:08] Trustee Grove: represents 40% of the region. We talked about fairness earlier on, and we talked about how

[5:32:15] Trustee Grove: funds are distributed. Salt Spring has been paying more than its fair share, if you like,

[5:32:23] Trustee Grove: for many, many, many years, and this is the first time a big ask has been made that I can recall.

[5:32:29] Trustee Grove: The housing issue, quite frankly, is essential on Salt Spring for the life and safety and health of

[5:32:38] Trustee Grove: the island's trust for better or for worse. And I think the islanders believe that the island's

[5:32:46] Trustee Grove: trust can play a big role in easing the housing issue on this island. They can certainly play a

[5:32:54] Trustee Grove: role in terms of land use planning. Nevertheless, we are seen to be the leaders and need to have

[5:33:01] Trustee Grove: all the support that we can provide to the community. It would be a real shot in the foot,

[5:33:10] Trustee Grove: quite frankly, if we were to turn this down. I think the island would be pretty upset with us.

[5:33:16] Trustee Grove: Quite frankly, if we had to choose at this point, I would rather give up Ganji's village planning

[5:33:24] Trustee Grove: and keep the housing front and center, but I don't think we should have to do that. I think it's time

[5:33:30] Trustee Grove: that Salt Spring actually took back some of the significant excess funds which

[5:33:38] Trustee Grove: run at about $400,000 a year if you follow our allocation of the

[5:33:45] Trustee Grove: calculation that we do every year and it's a significant amount of money and I

[5:33:49] Trustee Grove: think that we should be supporting this but it's not just about money it's just

[5:33:57] Trustee Grove: about perception the perception is that the island this is the what the island's trust is responsible

[5:34:02] Trustee Grove: for whether that's right or not that is still the perception i think it would be uh it would

[5:34:07] Trustee Grove: be a disaster to turn this down i think um i would have a lot of trouble walking down the main street

[5:34:12] Trustee Grove: of downtown ganges if we were to turn this down that's all i have to say about that and i'm happy

[5:34:21] Trustee Grove: to call for the vote if unless people have got more to say yes Kate Louise

[5:34:28] Trustee Grove: hello

[5:34:31] Voice 6: I'm just trying to think of how I would vote if this was in a different

[5:34:37] Voice 6: point in the agenda and that it then would be able to come up in how we're

[5:34:45] Voice 6: dealing with surplus because I would like to see this review like considered

[5:34:51] Voice 6: it as a valid part of the the budget but then understanding that we don't want to move more

[5:34:58] Voice 6: money out of surplus and that it be considered like all the other worthy projects that we looked

[5:35:04] Voice 6: at but i do really hear that concern about salt spring and how much money we spent um through the

[5:35:13] Voice 6: review process with Salt Spring, it makes $45,000 look fairly economical if it really is

[5:35:23] Voice 6: that dire that they would consider leaving the trust again. And I'd say that very lightly

[5:35:30] Voice 6: because I understand they will leave the trust.

[5:35:32] Trustee Grove: Well, Kate, Louise, that's not going to happen

[5:35:34] Trustee Grove: for another, well, God, I was going to say four years, two years now. But yeah, I think it would

[5:35:41] Trustee Grove: would be, I think it would shock the roots of our society if the trust was not prepared to step up

[5:35:47] Trustee Grove: to the plate to help with the housing crisis. Having said that, I mean, I do believe the housing

[5:35:53] Trustee Grove: issue lies with the province and the CRD, but we do have an important role to play in terms of land

[5:35:59] Trustee Grove: use planning. And we can't, this would be a disaster as far as I'm concerned. And I'm going

[5:36:06] Trustee Grove: and repeat it. I'd rather do this than Ganges Village planning if we had to make a choice.

[5:36:17] Trustee Grove: I'm seeing a lot of shaking. Laura's shaking her head. I don't quite know what that means.

[5:36:24] Trustee Patrick: These are complicated issues and everything's interrelated. I think, you know, from Coastal

[5:36:28] Trustee Patrick: Douglas Fir to Ganges Village, it's about where do we put our homes on Salt Spring? Where do we

[5:36:33] Trustee Patrick: protect and where do we put our homes? And that's what these projects have all merged together,

[5:36:37] Trustee Patrick: which is kind of exciting but that's what this is about Dan

[5:36:40] Voice 19: Rogers I'm just

[5:36:42] Voice 19: gonna say you guys have talked me into this and so I'm gonna change my point of

[5:36:48] Voice 19: view because but I will say you know I know Vice Chair Patrick that you have

[5:36:58] Voice 19: been following what's happening on Gabriela they are doing a an enormous

[5:37:04] Voice 19: amount of work in a big project with no money and you know their budget this year will be about

[5:37:12] Voice 19: thirty five hundred dollars or maybe no sorry about five thousand dollars i think it's forty

[5:37:17] Voice 19: nine hundred and um uh so you know there are models and templates i'm not saying that's

[5:37:26] Voice 19: possible on fell spring uh but it's there are models and and uh but anyway i don't let me

[5:37:32] Voice 19: don't let me i i doubt this will survive trust trust council um but i will i will vote in favor

[5:37:40] Voice 19: of forwarding it as part of the budget so because you've talked me into it i understand i accept

[5:37:46] Voice 19: that it's a need and i also accept that salt spring has for years if not decades paid more

[5:37:54] Voice 19: than its more than its equitable share into the trust budget so anything

[5:38:04] Trustee Grove: more um so with the

[5:38:10] Trustee Grove: it's been moved and seconded that fbc included 45 000 for the salt spring housing action initiative

[5:38:17] Trustee Grove: in fiscal year 2021 2022. i'd like to call for the vote i am in favor so we oh that's nice right

[5:38:27] Trustee Grove: across the board um patrick rogers stanford luckham in favor grove braver that's five against

[5:38:36] Trustee Grove: fast who's shaken oh yeah and and that adds up to seven it should add up to seven shouldn't it yeah

[5:38:41] Trustee Grove: thank you very much i really appreciate the support and uh so thank you julia mobs is

[5:38:46] Trustee Grove: going to vote in favor also i've

[5:38:49] Voice 2: been promoted i get a vote now yeah

[5:38:50] Trustee Grove: i hate this business because

[5:38:52] Trustee Grove: i i smile when i say stupid things so people realize i'm trying to be funny but all i can

[5:38:58] Trustee Grove: see as a blank says trustee grove anyway there we go i apologize um

[5:39:04] Voice 12: i did just want to uh confirm

[5:39:06] Voice 12: because this wasn't in the motion that the intent of financial planning committee is to have this

[5:39:12] Voice 12: funded out of surplus and not an increase in taxation that

[5:39:15] Trustee Grove: is indeed the intent and um i

[5:39:18] Trustee Grove: would assume that we can adjust the motion accordingly if that's all right with everybody

[5:39:26] Trustee Grove: i don't see anyone shaking or saying no so yes please go ahead with that

[5:39:30] Voice 1: okay sorry do you want me to just add um funded from surplus at the end

[5:39:35] Trustee Grove: yes

[5:39:37] Voice 1: just a sec okay

[5:39:41] Trustee Grove: done so go take it away david amada you're on board here

[5:39:47] Voice 1: okay thank you uh so the next item is two four uh sorry four seven four four this is

[5:39:57] Trustee Grove: This is Isles Trust

[5:39:58] Voice 1: Conservancy, which would be Clare or Director Mubbs, through the chair.

[5:40:05] Trustee Grove: On page 276.

[5:40:08] Trustee Grove: Yeah, that's where I am.

[5:40:11] Trustee Grove: Thank you.

[5:40:12] Trustee Grove: Do

[5:40:12] Voice 12: you want to take it, Director Frater?

[5:40:13] Voice 12: Go for it.

[5:40:15] Trustee Grove: Clare, thank you.

[5:40:16] Voice 18: Hi, just happy to introduce this one.

[5:40:19] Voice 18: This is the request of the Conservancy Board.

[5:40:21] Voice 18: Their requests come to you in a different manner because of the way the legislation's

[5:40:25] Voice 18: written they have to submit a request to council for their funding and the motions here were all

[5:40:32] Voice 18: passed by the board as resolutions that are noted here and then there's a note at the bottom of the

[5:40:38] Voice 18: briefing of course that the environment and climate change grant funding is included in the budget

[5:40:44] Voice 18: and you've got trustee Stanford I believe still in the meeting who could answer any questions as

[5:40:48] Voice 18: the chair of the board great

[5:40:50] Trustee Grove: trustee Stanford do you have anything to add no

[5:40:58] Voice 6: no this is just

[5:41:00] Voice 6: how we presented it and there's there's no changes from the last time we spoke about this um we we

[5:41:08] Voice 6: have although we have had some more money announced um and just to be if anybody's interested we're

[5:41:15] Voice 6: still as far as i understand we're still looking at our our new coordinator position has to be um

[5:41:22] Voice 6: um stated by the province as to where it sits within the

[5:41:26] Voice 16: classification

[5:41:27] Voice 6: so we're still working

[5:41:29] Voice 6: on that but um excellent passes

[5:41:32] Voice 6: that would be appreciated thank

[5:41:34] Trustee Grove: you we don't we're not voting

[5:41:36] Trustee Grove: on this um so yeah

[5:41:38] Voice 16: yeah we're

[5:41:41] Trustee Grove: at um i think to 281 anything uh anything else david what's next

[5:41:51] Voice 1: Next on the agenda, 475, and that is Salt Spring Island water sustainability.

[5:42:03] Voice 1: Yeah, this is Swipper. But

[5:42:06] Trustee Grove: did we cover everything from 276 to 281?

[5:42:10] Voice 1: Yeah.

[5:42:11] Trustee Grove: Okay, fine. So pages 282 to 303, the Swipper request.

[5:42:22] Voice 1: So, if you see under the recommendation, there's a resolution there, which is to include a

[5:42:28] Voice 1: special property tax requisition.

[5:42:32] Voice 19: If I could, this is a matter for Trust Council, though, not for us.

[5:42:36] Trustee Grove: Absolutely.

[5:42:36] Trustee Grove: That's right.

[5:42:37] Voice 19: So, I guess

[5:42:38] Voice 19: we can simply just receive it for information.

[5:42:41] Trustee Grove: I think that's what we should do.

[5:42:43] Trustee Grove: Any questions or concerns?

[5:42:47] Voice 12: Just a comment.

[5:42:47] Voice 12: It comes here as part of the overall budget recommendation so that financial planning

[5:42:51] Voice 12: and committee can recommend to council how they feel it should be dealt with so it's part of the

[5:42:55] Voice 12: overall budget package so

[5:42:56] Trustee Grove: we need nothing nothing to do with that so

[5:43:00] Voice 19: can i make a motion at this

[5:43:02] Voice 19: point well we've finished the budget part can i move that we refer all of the budget documents

[5:43:09] Voice 19: and the uh with the um uh recommended amendments to trust council

[5:43:19] Trustee Grove: is there a motion that's made

[5:43:20] Trustee Grove: Mayor Mrakas, Is there a seconder.

[5:43:23] Trustee Grove: Mayor Mrakas,

[5:43:23] Voice 14: Laura

[5:43:25] Trustee Grove: we shaken any discussion any debate hearing none.

[5:43:31] Voice 19: Councillor John Gallo,

[5:43:31] Voice 19: Director wants me to amend my motion, what else do you need director mom.

[5:43:36] Voice 19: on I

[5:43:37] Voice 12: just have a question actually a point of clarity it's pretty unorthodox for FPC to send

[5:43:43] Voice 12: forward a budget and then a series of recommendations for changes to that budget but I thought that's

[5:43:51] Voice 12: what I had heard earlier on in discussion is that the motions that were passed earlier on

[5:43:56] Voice 12: recommended changes would not be incorporated in the budget but instead would just accompany

[5:44:01] Voice 12: the budget so I wanted to make sure that I had understood that because that's pretty unorthodox

[5:44:05] Voice 12: typically the budget that FPC sends forward would include their recommended

[5:44:10] Voice 12: changes so I just want clarity on that and

[5:44:12] Trustee Grove: that's so no how it should be

[5:44:14] Trustee Grove: correct

[5:44:16] Voice 19: well well no with respect point of order we made a series of

[5:44:25] Voice 19: recommendations to amend the budget to withdraw matters my understanding from

[5:44:33] Voice 19: that would be that therefore the budget would go as presented and then there would be a series of

[5:44:38] Voice 19: amendments that recommended amendments that would go um now that may be an after orthodox but that's

[5:44:46] Voice 19: what i would understand would happen sorry

[5:44:48] Trustee Grove: my understanding if i may is we send in the amended

[5:44:51] Trustee Grove: budget but we also would include the notes from this meeting explaining the changes that we made

[5:44:57] Trustee Grove: made today and why and i'll

[5:45:03] Voice 11: see that would that would be my understanding of how we traditionally

[5:45:08] Voice 11: have done this yes and and

[5:45:09] Voice 11: i think the correct way of doing it all right at least then you get

[5:45:15] Voice 11: a like i think julia has to work out what the taxation levels are at the end of the day

[5:45:20] Voice 11: associated with that instead of having budget one and budget two um she has to come to some

[5:45:27] Voice 11: conclusions yeah isn't that the case julia yeah

[5:45:32] Voice 12: typically motions that are passed at fpc i would

[5:45:35] Voice 12: incorporate them into the numbers before we send it to trust council package um but i did hear that

[5:45:41] Voice 12: distinction earlier um whereby and and the motions have been crafted not to direct staff to remove

[5:45:47] Voice 12: certain things from the budget but to recommend that trust council remove them hence the uh the

[5:45:52] Voice 12: confusion here hence my question on clarity i'm happy to take either approach as i said the one

[5:45:57] Voice 12: is unorthodox but it's at the committee's will uh

[5:46:00] Trustee Grove: kate stamford uh

[5:46:04] Voice 6: yeah my my um motions that were

[5:46:09] Voice 6: passed earlier specifically around the governance was the understanding that the unorthodox view

[5:46:16] Voice 6: would be what is presented to um trust council i think it's it's a more diplomatic way of them

[5:46:24] Voice 6: them considering what is going to be taken out of surplus and where their comfort level

[5:46:30] Voice 6: is.

[5:46:32] Trustee Grove: Well, if I may, I just think that's going to be very confusing for trust counsel.

[5:46:39] Trustee Grove: I must say I hadn't really thought this through properly, but to my mind it should be the

[5:46:45] Trustee Grove: amended budget, but we should spell out very clearly what changes we have made today and

[5:46:51] Trustee Grove: Peter Larkin wants to make us say something.

[5:46:53] Trustee Grove: Peter Larkin.

[5:46:54] Trustee Grove: well

[5:46:55] Trustee Luckham: i apologize if i wasn't paying attention um but this is certainly not what i was expecting

[5:47:01] Trustee Luckham: and my vote that i registered was based on an assumption that we were we were amending a

[5:47:09] Trustee Luckham: recommended budget and i think that i'd even indicated that in preambles earlier that that

[5:47:16] Trustee Luckham: we should be recommending a budget that's the purpose of this meeting because otherwise we

[5:47:22] Trustee Luckham: may as well not have this meeting because we're going to

[5:47:24] Trustee Luckham: go through all this all over again.

[5:47:28] Voice 16: Yeah

[5:47:28] Trustee Luckham: so I don't know what to say about that and I'd like to

[5:47:35] Trustee Luckham: review each one of the motions at

[5:47:37] Trustee Luckham: this point to determine whether or not yeah.

[5:47:42] Trustee Grove: I would like someone to make a motion that

[5:47:45] Trustee Grove: this committee forward to Trust Council in an amended budget reflecting the

[5:47:52] Trustee Grove: changes that we agreed upon today. I'm willing to

[5:47:59] Voice 4: make that motion, so I try and

[5:48:02] Voice 4: say it out loud. I move that FPC refer all budget documents, refer the amended

[5:48:15] Voice 4: amended budget with supportive documents to trust council and i'll speak to that

[5:48:24] Voice 4: if i may i understand may i yes

[5:48:29] Trustee Grove: yeah

[5:48:30] Voice 4: i understand the idea of diplomacy and um

[5:48:35] Voice 4: and but i also think we we make hard decisions and we made hard decisions today and we we

[5:48:46] Voice 4: you need clarity, and clarity and diplomacy sometimes work at cross-purposes, and I think

[5:48:53] Voice 4: that clarity has to be of utmost importance here, and transparent process. So, we made these

[5:48:59] Voice 4: recommendations. I imagine that the individual motions will be made clear to Trust Council.

[5:49:08] Voice 4: They can look at the minutes of this meeting, and Trust Council is certainly able to make motions

[5:49:15] Voice 4: to change the recommended budget as easily as if we did it the opposite way so I think

[5:49:23] Voice 4: clarity has to trump diplomacy and we have to stand by the difficult decisions we made.

[5:49:28] Trustee Grove: Thank you I'm going to ask David to speak then Sue Ellen first. David

[5:49:34] Voice 1: Muller. Oh sorry yeah I

[5:49:36] Voice 1: just wanted as a point of order you have a motion already on the floor here which has been seconded

[5:49:41] Voice 1: the first one so how did you want to handle that before you move on to another motion did you want

[5:49:46] Voice 1: a friendly amendment to that or did you want to do an amend amending resolution to it um

[5:49:53] Trustee Grove: i

[5:49:57] Trustee Grove: so we're figuring that out david okay thank you the motion on the on the floor

[5:50:05] Trustee Grove: is highlighted it's highlighted

[5:50:07] Trustee Grove: okay they're moving secondly that fbc refer all budget

[5:50:11] Trustee Grove: documents with recommended amendments to trust council i'm not actually sure what that means

[5:50:21] Voice 11: and we're starting to go in a a bit of a circle so um to get to that motion you're going to have

[5:50:29] Voice 11: to back off of this of this one because they're diamo they're opposite right so it's been we've

[5:50:35] Voice 11: moved and seconded one before considering the first so another way to get to this is have the

[5:50:41] Voice 11: first one fail if you believe in the second if that makes any sense but i do think that

[5:50:48] Voice 11: But somehow we've gotten ourselves in a challenging position because the significant changes that you've made need to be contextualized, I would think, because you had a large, the reporting that had a large surplus associated with it, as well as a tax rate and presumably those are the reasons why you made those changes.

[5:51:11] Voice 11: So I think Julia would then have to provide some sort of synopses to bridge that gap at a minimum, if that makes sense.

[5:51:23] Voice 16: And I want her

[5:51:23] Voice 11: to say something about what I'm suggesting or make a recommendation

[5:51:27] Voice 11: to the group on which way to proceed.

[5:51:30] Voice 11: I

[5:51:30] Trustee Grove: think the committee is going to need some direction.

[5:51:32] Voice 11: I

[5:51:32] Trustee Grove: think we're complicating issues unnecessarily.

[5:51:35] Trustee Grove: I do agree that we need to vote on that first motion and get rid of it and then start again.

[5:51:40] Trustee Grove: gain um so um then so i'm going to call that vote um and uh then we can get on with the with

[5:51:49] Trustee Grove: the next one if that's all right with everybody okay so we're calling on that the motion that's

[5:51:56] Trustee Grove: before you yes peter luckham well

[5:51:59] Voice 9: you can also amend this motion that's on the floor but that's

[5:52:02] Voice 9: up to you what you want to do

[5:52:03] Trustee Grove: um well we it's advised by staff to cancel it and uh to vote on

[5:52:08] Trustee Grove: it and get start again is what we were advised so i'm going to take that advice so all those in favor

[5:52:15] Trustee Grove: of the motion that's before us and there's two in favor we

[5:52:21] Voice 8: can't tell because there's two motions

[5:52:23] Voice 8: there in front of us which is

[5:52:24] Trustee Grove: a highlighted highlighted the highlighted one and we and

[5:52:27] Trustee Grove: staff have recommended that we vote on that and vote it down no i'm not telling you which way to

[5:52:33] Trustee Grove: vote i'm just saying you have to

[5:52:34] Trustee Grove: deal with that one first okay

[5:52:36] Voice 16: that's right so

[5:52:38] Trustee Grove: okay so i those

[5:52:40] Trustee Grove: Those two in favor, those against?

[5:52:43] Trustee Grove: I'm voting against.

[5:52:46] Trustee Patrick: I'm a part of abstaining,

[5:52:48] Trustee Patrick: I'm confused.

[5:52:50] Trustee Patrick: Okay, I'm just- You can't abstain.

[5:52:54] Trustee Grove: Sorry, Laura, Patrick, what else?

[5:52:56] Trustee Grove: We have order.

[5:53:00] Voice 4: I feel there's confusion, but we just have their short.

[5:53:03] Voice 4: Can we read the motion out loud

[5:53:06] Voice 4: so that everyone knows

[5:53:07] Voice 4: what they're voting?

[5:53:07] Trustee Grove: It was, as just read before,

[5:53:10] Trustee Grove: moved and seconded that FPC refer all budget documents.

[5:53:15] Trustee Grove: whatever that may mean with recommended amendments to trust council that was what was moved and it

[5:53:23] Trustee Grove: was seconded by um it doesn't say who it was seconded by was it seconded by somebody it was

[5:53:30] Voice 1: seconded i didn't catch it but it's in the recording so so

[5:53:33] Trustee Grove: that is what we're voting on now

[5:53:35] Trustee Grove: and um i i do not find that a very clear um motion at all and i would like to start again if that's

[5:53:44] Trustee Grove: all right and dan rogers is waving

[5:53:49] Voice 19: i'm the mover i i i have to tell you i crafted my all of my

[5:53:54] Voice 19: motions specifically to achieve this objective they were all designed to take send the current

[5:54:01] Voice 19: budget to trust council and then make a series of recommendations to amend the budget it it to me

[5:54:10] Voice 19: it's two sides of the same coin um you either send the budget that's currently here that's been put

[5:54:17] Voice 19: before us and then say okay and here's our recommended changes that adopt with and then

[5:54:23] Voice 19: decide on the changes or you send the one you amend it now and it goes and you say and here's

[5:54:29] Voice 19: all the things we changed and they'll they'll talk about whether or not they're going to put

[5:54:33] Voice 19: them back in or not or or makes i mean so but anyway that i just want to say all my motions

[5:54:40] Voice 19: are specifically worded to recommend the trust council to amend the budget so

[5:54:47] Trustee Grove: i did not understand that and with all due respect as we like to say in the business

[5:54:53] Trustee Grove: i think that would be a bit of a nightmare for trust council to deal with far better for them

[5:54:58] Trustee Grove: to be provided with a clean, amended budget, which is forwarded to them by this committee

[5:55:04] Trustee Grove: with a full explanation of what's going to be made, which is where I thought we were headed

[5:55:09] Trustee Grove: just now. And Laura, perhaps you might wish us to speak.

[5:55:13] Trustee Patrick: Is there a hybrid? I mean, I think there

[5:55:16] Trustee Patrick: still needs to be a calculation of the changes that were made today to see, did it move? Because

[5:55:22] Trustee Patrick: we had some objectives. We were trying to reduce the amount of draw from surplus, and we were

[5:55:26] Trustee Patrick: trying to reduce the tax so we had some object we didn't set targets but we did look at both

[5:55:31] Trustee Patrick: of those things and i and so i

[5:55:34] Trustee Patrick: think we are going to need to see what the budget would look like

[5:55:38] Trustee Patrick: as amended as sort of a starting conversation so but i agree you know so can we have almost a hybrid

[5:55:47] Trustee Patrick: where we have to present that okay

[5:55:50] Trustee Grove: it's standard but what we can do presumably is hold another

[5:55:54] Trustee Grove: meeting before Trust Council to clear this, because I would like to see it ideally in the

[5:56:01] Trustee Grove: form that we've recommended. Kate Stanford.

[5:56:04] Voice 6: I understood that the problem we were looking at

[5:56:09] Voice 6: specifically was that we were outside of our policy on how much we were withdrawing from

[5:56:15] Voice 6: surplus. And in order to address that problem, we were going to make a series of recommendations

[5:56:21] Voice 6: recommendations right to

[5:56:22] Voice 6: present to uh council that in or if this is a problem for council

[5:56:28] Voice 6: then that they are outside of their policy then here are some suggested reductions

[5:56:36] Voice 6: and so i would prefer to see the uh amended um budget that includes the new funding for salt

[5:56:46] Voice 6: spring island and then say we're outside the policy here are recommended amendments can you

[5:56:55] Voice 6: please vote on these if you if trust council decides that we cannot be outside of our own

[5:57:02] Voice 6: policy on the surplus so i i saw them as very different and i'm not comfortable um taking those

[5:57:09] Voice 6: out without council addressing them can

[5:57:14] Voice 19: I make a suggestion mr. chair yes please

[5:57:17] Voice 19: do can I suggest that we send the the budget that we got today plus the

[5:57:23] Voice 19: recommended budget and that both of them go to Trust Council and one be called

[5:57:28] Voice 19: the recommended budget with the changes and then we can

[5:57:32] Trustee Grove: I just I just hate to

[5:57:34] Trustee Grove: send Trust Council more paper and and that shouldn't be a concern mr. chair

[5:57:39] Trustee Grove: as long

[5:57:40] Trustee Grove: as we find clarity but maybe Julia

[5:57:42] Voice 11: would like to speak yes Julia go I

[5:57:47] Voice 12: mean I can do what

[5:57:49] Voice 12: the committee would like to do you know I either have to make changes to the budget tonight and

[5:57:58] Voice 12: tomorrow before it goes to executive committee in advance of going to council or I make these

[5:58:02] Voice 12: changes after council so for me the changes will have to be made at some point as I said

[5:58:08] Voice 12: unorthodox to send forward a budget with a series of recommended changes um it can be done if we

[5:58:14] Voice 12: want to take two that's fine too i i will work

[5:58:16] Voice 11: in the direction

[5:58:16] Voice 12: of the committee so

[5:58:18] Voice 11: it's 50 50

[5:58:19] Voice 11: back to you mr chair

[5:58:20] Trustee Grove: you're lucky you had your hand up i

[5:58:25] Trustee Luckham: would support whoever's no dan's notion

[5:58:31] Trustee Luckham: that um that there'd be another motion crafted that says essentially that fpc forward an amended

[5:58:40] Trustee Luckham: budget to council including the pre amended budget and and proposed and the

[5:58:54] Trustee Luckham: amendments made by FPC and something along that lines in order to advance

[5:58:59] Trustee Luckham: this because I'm going to leave here in less than 10 minutes but

[5:59:03] Trustee Grove: that seems like

[5:59:04] Trustee Grove: a good idea to me can we see if that motion has been captured by David well

[5:59:10] Voice 19: Well, we've got to defeat or

[5:59:12] Voice 19: pass the existing motion.

[5:59:12] Trustee Grove: Let's defeat

[5:59:13] Voice 19: this one and we'll craft a new one.

[5:59:15] Trustee Grove: Okay, let's vote on the one that was highlighted.

[5:59:17] Trustee Grove: It's no longer highlighted.

[5:59:19] Trustee Grove: There it is.

[5:59:20] Trustee Grove: All those in favor?

[5:59:23] Trustee Grove: Dan Rogers.

[5:59:24] Trustee Grove: Oh, no, sorry.

[5:59:24] Voice 16: No, no, you're not in favor.

[5:59:26] Trustee Grove: Kate, are you really in favor of that?

[5:59:29] Trustee Grove: Okay.

[5:59:30] Trustee Grove: Kate Louise is in favor.

[5:59:33] Trustee Grove: Contrary.

[5:59:35] Trustee Grove: I'm voting against.

[5:59:36] Trustee Grove: I'm voting against.

[5:59:38] Trustee Grove: Everybody else is against.

[5:59:40] Trustee Grove: So that motion fails.

[5:59:41] Trustee Grove: So now we have a brand new motion.

[5:59:43] Trustee Grove: cunningly crafted by Peter Luckham.

[5:59:47] Trustee Luckham: So then I will move that FPC forward

[5:59:50] Trustee Luckham: and amended budget to council.

[5:59:56] Voice 9: I'm just going to wait for David to get caught.

[6:00:00] Voice 9: up with us. Can

[6:00:01] Voice 19: I suggest it say recommended amended budget?

[6:00:08] Trustee Luckham: Okay. Yes. Recommended amended

[6:00:10] Trustee Luckham: budget to council, including the pre-amended budget and the list of recommended amendments

[6:00:22] Trustee Luckham: made by FPC.

[6:00:29] Trustee Grove: That seems clear to me. Would somebody like to second that?

[6:00:33] Voice 8: I saw Kate's hand up.

[6:00:34] Voice 8: uh

[6:00:36] Trustee Grove: dan rogers is going to second that any further discussion kate trying to get your attention

[6:00:43] Voice 6: kate louise

[6:00:45] Voice 6: the only thing that i'm having trouble with is nowhere is it stated that the

[6:00:52] Voice 6: whole reason that we put those um amendments recommended amendments in was because we are

[6:00:59] Voice 6: outside of the policy for uh dipping into our surplus so somehow that needs to be captured

[6:01:07] Voice 6: I

[6:01:08] Trustee Grove: agree, I'm not sure where.

[6:01:10] Trustee Patrick: Could that be a separate motion that the Financial Planning Committee wants to make Trust Council

[6:01:16] Trustee Patrick: aware, blah blah blah, something like that?

[6:01:19] Trustee Grove: Julia Mobs has got the answer.

[6:01:22] Voice 12: So the minutes will certainly reflect that there was discussion around that and the following

[6:01:27] Voice 12: motions report forward to address it and I can definitely update the documents going

[6:01:32] Voice 12: forward to Council to let them know that a series of changes were made resulting from

[6:01:37] Voice 12: from that discussion, I can take care of that.

[6:01:39] Trustee Grove: That would be very helpful, Julia.

[6:01:43] Trustee Grove: Thank you.

[6:01:43] Trustee Grove: As usual, you come to save the day.

[6:01:46] Trustee Grove: Any other comments?

[6:01:48] Trustee Grove: If not, I'm gonna call the vote.

[6:01:50] Trustee Grove: All those in favor, I'm voting in favor.

[6:01:55] Trustee Grove: Peter Lockham, are you voting?

[6:01:58] Trustee Grove: Peter Lockham.

[6:01:59] Voice 9: Sorry, I'm just gonna read the motion.

[6:02:04] Voice 9: I'm just gonna read the motion, sorry.

[6:02:09] Voice 9: Oh, so this is the motion I'd made.

[6:02:11] Voice 9: So moved and

[6:02:11] Voice 9: seconded, yeah, I'm in favor, of course.

[6:02:13] Voice 9: Good,

[6:02:13] Trustee Grove: good man. I thought you were. So that carries unanimously. Thank you very much. Sorry,

[6:02:17] Trustee Grove: that was so painful. I take full responsibility. Everybody else is perfect. So we have now 4.8.1

[6:02:26] Trustee Grove: financial plan by law number 181. It's a request for decision. And if you have read it, if you feel

[6:02:34] Trustee Grove: that you've read it, then I think we can just proceed and make that motion. On the other hand,

[6:02:39] Trustee Grove: we can have Julia take us through it. I have read it. It seems reasonable to me. Julia Mobs.

[6:02:48] Voice 12: So I just take this opportunity to point out to the committee, we still have four items on the

[6:02:52] Voice 12: agenda, and we might lose quorum when Trustee Luckham has to step out. This particular item,

[6:02:59] Voice 12: this is our five-year financial plan bylaw that will be approved by Trust Council and then

[6:03:05] Voice 12: forwarded to the minister for approval. I

[6:03:08] Voice 12: cannot achieve our policy minimum for surplus in this

[6:03:13] Voice 12: financial plan bylaw under our current way of using surplus funds with our current anticipated

[6:03:19] Voice 12: plans for spending and revenues in the next four years. So the way that I have put together this

[6:03:25] Voice 12: five-year financial plan is with efforts to make sure that the surplus balance does not dip to more

[6:03:33] Voice 12: more than or it stays at at least 70% of the recommended policy minimum. I think in in year

[6:03:40] Voice 12: five year, there's a slight error, I need to correct an amount. But if you know, financial

[6:03:47] Voice 12: planning committee wants to remain within the policy reserves and surplus policy, and wants us

[6:03:53] Voice 12: to actually achieve the minimum balance, I need to receive some instruction on how to accomplish

[6:03:58] Voice 12: that in the five-year financial plan bylaw. The options are to increase taxation revenue.

[6:04:05] Voice 12: I've already doubled our fees revenue next year with subsequent increases for inflation.

[6:04:13] Voice 12: So it's either increasing taxation, reducing spending. Those are the only two options really

[6:04:21] Voice 12: that are there to help us achieve that minimum balance. So I need direction from the committee

[6:04:27] Voice 12: on which way to go there. Alternatively if the committee is fine to be below the minimum balance

[6:04:35] Voice 12: then it can go forward as it is.

[6:04:42] Trustee Grove: But sorry but to send it but to send it below the minimum balance

[6:04:46] Trustee Grove: that we require what's the result of what's the consequence of that?

[6:04:51] Voice 12: We will be planning to be

[6:04:53] Voice 12: outside of trust council approved policy for the next five years. So financial planning committee

[6:04:58] Voice 12: could recommend that the policy be changed so that we're not outside of policy or we have to

[6:05:03] Voice 12: to change the financial plan bylaw to change that amount?

[6:05:07] Trustee Grove: That's what I would like to happen.

[6:05:09] Trustee Grove: I would like us to recommend to trust counsel

[6:05:14] Trustee Grove: that the policy be amended to reflect a 20% surplus balance

[6:05:22] Trustee Grove: rather than 25% or something like that.

[6:05:25] Trustee Grove: And I think that should be made by trust counsel

[6:05:27] Trustee Grove: this coming at the next meeting.

[6:05:29] Trustee Grove: And you've all read Julia's sensitivity analysis. It seems very clear to me that 20% is more than

[6:05:43] Trustee Grove: adequate and still provides us with a good cushion. So I'm totally happy with 20%. And so

[6:05:50] Trustee Grove: is our esteemed Vice Chair, Paul Brent.

[6:05:56] Voice 12: So in advance of discussion related to that policy

[6:06:01] Voice 12: in particular the financial planning committee could provide direction to

[6:06:05] Voice 12: staff to set up the financial plan by law to achieve 80% of the current

[6:06:11] Voice 12: recommended minimum which is that 20% reduction that's a possibility and then

[6:06:17] Voice 12: if there's no desire for for the policy minimum to be lowered the next year we

[6:06:22] Voice 12: could change that but I would still need to receive instruction on how to it how

[6:06:26] Voice 12: to achieve that I would still need to either increase taxation for the next

[6:06:29] Voice 12: four years or reduce spending?

[6:06:32] Trustee Grove: No, if we're at 80%, that deals with the issue.

[6:06:37] Voice 12: It does not. Unfortunately, the five-year financial plan is taking us down to 70%,

[6:06:41] Voice 12: not 80%. I will note, however, that the changes that were made to the budget just moments ago

[6:06:49] Voice 12: to reduce the draw and surplus in the next year's budget are not reflected in the current five-year

[6:06:54] Voice 12: financial plan and so that will help um it will certainly help for you know the next fiscal year

[6:07:01] Voice 12: at least i don't know what it will do for for the three years following but

[6:07:05] Trustee Grove: sorry you can't do that

[6:07:06] Trustee Grove: five-year projection until trust council has approved this year's budget surely oh that's

[6:07:12] Voice 12: right the you know the approval of the budget does impact that um but i do believe that if we

[6:07:17] Voice 12: continue to use surplus the way we are we're going to run into this problem regardless of

[6:07:20] Voice 12: of what the budget looks like for next year.

[6:07:23] Trustee Grove: Julia.

[6:07:24] Voice 12: When do you

[6:07:24] Trustee Grove: have to file this document by?

[6:07:27] Voice 12: It goes to the minister as soon as Trust Council

[6:07:29] Voice 12: has approved it at their March meeting.

[6:07:31] Voice 11: But Julia, the minister doesn't care

[6:07:33] Voice 11: whether how much we save or don't save.

[6:07:35] Voice 12: Yeah, right.

[6:07:36] Voice 11: So I don't see how that is an impediment

[6:07:39] Voice 11: to this moving forward.

[6:07:41] Voice 11: They could, in terms of their long-term financial plan,

[6:07:45] Voice 11: they have to address this issue,

[6:07:46] Voice 11: but the minister's not gonna turn this around

[6:07:47] Voice 11: around and not requisition our monies because of that.

[6:07:51] Voice 12: That's right but Trust Council needs to

[6:07:53] Voice 12: approve the five-year financial plan and if the five-year financial plan is outside of a Trust

[6:07:58] Voice 12: Council approved policy they need to be made aware of that and if they want changes to that

[6:08:02] Voice 12: I need to be told how they want to achieve that change.

[6:08:07] Trustee Grove: Well I think that policy should be changed

[6:08:09] Trustee Grove: and I have no problem also in the five-year plan showing an increase in taxation if that's

[6:08:15] Trustee Grove: what's necessary and you're not married we're not married to that financial plan that's that's

[6:08:21] Voice 12: accurate you're not you know we redo redo this uh the next year so there's opportunity for change

[6:08:27] Voice 11: do you have a

[6:08:28] Voice 11: recommendation for a committee um julia um

[6:08:34] Voice 12: i don't i mean it depends on where

[6:08:37] Voice 12: um the politicians are comfortable having their surplus balances um certainly i you know i don't

[6:08:44] Voice 12: recommend that we continue using our surplus the way that we do I know I understand that I'm just

[6:08:48] Voice 12: saying to

[6:08:49] Voice 11: get past this moment right here so you recommend one course of action over another yes I

[6:08:55] Voice 12: would recommend we stop using surplus the way that we're using it and if we need to achieve that

[6:08:59] Voice 12: balance we increase taxation or reduce spending those are the two options that me not being a

[6:09:04] Voice 12: politician can't choose between well

[6:09:07] Trustee Grove: for purposes of this document then I would suggest that you

[6:09:11] Trustee Grove: You include a bit of both, an increase in taxation and a reduction in expenses, whatever it takes to come up with a credible five-year plan.

[6:09:27] Voice 12: I can do that if the committee provides direction to do that.

[6:09:32] Voice 19: So if I move that FPC ask the five-year – what is this called, anyway?

[6:09:41] Voice 19: The five-year budget projection.

[6:09:43] Voice 11: Financial – no, it's a five-year financial plan, I believe.

[6:09:46] Voice 11: amend

[6:09:49] Voice 19: the uh five-year financial plan to um increase taxes to keep surplus at a minimum of

[6:10:00] Voice 19: 80 percent of a

[6:10:10] Voice 12: policy current policy minimum yes

[6:10:13] Voice 19: well yes

[6:10:16] Trustee Grove: second

[6:10:19] Voice 8: okay

[6:10:21] Trustee Grove: let's read it it was

[6:10:22] Trustee Grove: moved and seconded that fbc amend the five-year financial plan to increase taxes and keep surplus

[6:10:27] Trustee Grove: at a to amend the five-year plan to increase taxes as necessary if i may add yeah and and

[6:10:39] Trustee Grove: keep surplus at a minimum of 80 of the current policy minimum is that your motion mr rogers

[6:10:47] Trustee Grove: yeah i'm just trying to get us to a place where we could forward the trust count i agree that's

[6:10:51] Trustee Grove: what i want and it's

[6:10:52] Voice 19: a quarter to five

[6:10:53] Trustee Grove: has this been seconded by somebody responsible yes i said

[6:10:56] Voice 8: I seconded it is

[6:10:57] Trustee Grove: there any more discussion all those in favor and I'm voting in favor

[6:11:04] Trustee Grove: against that carries unanimously thank you very much so

[6:11:09] Voice 1: I may ask you move that I did

[6:11:12] Trustee Grove: okay thank you

[6:11:13] Trustee Grove: all right thank you okay so that's done with 4.8.1 and so that's 4.8.1 and 4.8.2 is

[6:11:21] Trustee Grove: that correct Julia so

[6:11:25] Voice 12: we do need a motion to forward both of those bylaws to trust council

[6:11:28] Voice 12: could

[6:11:28] Trustee Grove: somebody make that motion please i'll

[6:11:33] Voice 19: move that uh bylaws uh for one 181 financial plan bylaw

[6:11:38] Voice 19: number 181 and financial plan sorry revenue and history bylaw number 182 be forwarded trust

[6:11:43] Voice 19: council for decision is

[6:11:45] Trustee Grove: there a seconder trustee stanford thank you any discussion all those in

[6:11:51] Trustee Grove: favor and i'm voting in favor that carries unanimously thank you so much the then somebody

[6:11:58] Trustee Grove: a motion please from somebody to uh forward the financial planning committee top priorities to

[6:12:04] Trustee Grove: trust council for approval a

[6:12:07] Voice 12: note on this mr chair uh these top

[6:12:09] Voice 12: priorities were not um changed since

[6:12:12] Voice 12: they were last reviewed by fpc um so updated uh top priorities would include um sending the five

[6:12:18] Voice 12: year financial plan to uh the minister for approval um preparing and undertaking the

[6:12:24] Voice 12: fiscal audit and likely review of our reserves and surplus policy those would be the three

[6:12:30] Voice 12: staff recommended top priorities to forage trust council good

[6:12:35] Trustee Grove: and laura patrick i

[6:12:39] Trustee Patrick: don't want to

[6:12:39] Trustee Patrick: enter in the conversation right now next fpc meeting we should talk about work that needs

[6:12:44] Trustee Patrick: to be done to reduce this habit of drawing from surplus over the next year before the next budget

[6:12:50] Trustee Patrick: it is done should be a project of this committee but we can discuss that maybe place that in the

[6:12:57] Trustee Patrick: minutes to bring on put on a discussion for the next meeting thank

[6:13:02] Trustee Grove: you so that the minutes reflect

[6:13:04] Trustee Grove: that um we now hello

[6:13:10] Voice 8: yes yes sue

[6:13:12] Voice 8: ellen here hello

[6:13:13] Trustee Grove: i'd

[6:13:14] Voice 8: be happy to make the motion um that financial

[6:13:17] Voice 8: Planning Committee forward their top priorities list to Trust Council for

[6:13:23] Voice 8: approval as just read out by Julia.

[6:13:26] Trustee Grove: Thank you so much and is there a seconder?

[6:13:30] Trustee Grove: Trustee Stanford, thank you. Any discussion? All those in favor and I am

[6:13:35] Trustee Grove: in favor? Aye. That carries unanimously, thank you. We now have a

[6:13:42] Trustee Grove: property tax insert notice briefing on pages 314 to 316. Any comments or

[6:13:50] Trustee Grove: thoughts or would somebody like to um talk about the briefing i

[6:13:57] Voice 18: can very quickly introduce it

[6:13:59] Voice 18: chair because i know everyone would

[6:14:00] Voice 16: like to go home yeah so

[6:14:01] Voice 18: this is here for comment and feedback

[6:14:04] Voice 18: we've incorporated what we heard at your last meeting in terms of potential changes and it's

[6:14:08] Voice 18: here for any further comment it will then go to executive committee prior to being sent through

[6:14:12] Voice 18: to the province any comments or

[6:14:19] Trustee Grove: any comments or questions i

[6:14:22] Voice 8: like it i sent in some comments and

[6:14:24] Voice 8: they're reflected okay or

[6:14:27] Voice 8: then I retracted them and so they are reflected um

[6:14:31] Trustee Grove: we that's fine I have

[6:14:34] Trustee Grove: no comments I don't think anybody any comments or thoughts hearing none uh

[6:14:42] Voice 8: Laura Bershaken has

[6:14:43] Voice 8: her hand up

[6:14:44] Trustee Grove: sorry thanks Laura yeah

[6:14:45] Voice 4: so I hesitated because it's late in the day and I'll be brief I

[6:14:49] Voice 4: think this is great if there's space to do any more work on it some kind of box about how you

[6:14:55] Voice 4: can help and emphasizing um well there's not kept but to say i mean it goes back to why i was talking

[6:15:02] Voice 4: about the communications person is you know um please uh learn about the bylaws and make inquiries

[6:15:10] Voice 4: and get the proper um permits before you build like something about you can help by developing

[6:15:18] Voice 4: with care like just a little message about that i think would be lovely but i also think it's great

[6:15:24] Voice 4: great as it is and i'm sure that you need to carry on with other work so there you go thank you so

[6:15:31] Trustee Grove: we're not being asked to do anything here correct i was just looking for

[6:15:39] Voice 18: feedback thank

[6:15:40] Trustee Grove: you that is

[6:15:41] Trustee Grove: a great document and i'm sorry we haven't given it the attention it deserves you put a lot of time

[6:15:46] Trustee Grove: and effort into it and it's a fine document and uh i wish it wasn't the end of the day

[6:15:52] Trustee Grove: thank you 5

[6:15:53] Trustee Grove: .2 surplus sensitivity analysis pages 317 to 320 this seems to be for information

[6:15:59] Trustee Grove: to inform discussion of potential amendments i um i think we can do better than that quite frankly

[6:16:06] Trustee Grove: and um i would like to this is just a suggestion at this point i'd like for to see how you respond

[6:16:13] Trustee Grove: to it, refer it to Trust Council with a recommendation as to accepting this new maximum surplus

[6:16:24] Trustee Grove: balance of the 20%.

[6:16:29] Trustee Grove: It's very clear.

[6:16:30] Trustee Grove: I don't know what more there is to discuss or what more there is to say.

[6:16:34] Trustee Grove: It's a very fine document and for which, thank you, Julia, it explains it very clearly to

[6:16:39] Trustee Grove: me and Russ has got his thumb up.

[6:16:42] Trustee Grove: Well,

[6:16:43] Voice 11: Jill, you may wish to do a review of this, but from her comments earlier, I understand there's a further piece of analysis that is to come with this, and it had previous analysis from the last FPC meeting that you should, I think, take into account as a total before you make a change to the approach of the Islands Trust in this matter.

[6:17:05] Voice 11: certainly if i'm wrong um that's fine but um i think this is just furthering of work that

[6:17:13] Voice 11: was asked for previously by fpc thank you julia did you have anything to add

[6:17:18] Voice 11: i

[6:17:20] Voice 12: will just on the subject of forwarding this to trust council right now there is a piece of work

[6:17:25] Voice 12: on the follow-up action list to look at like a wholesome review of our surplus policy because

[6:17:31] Voice 12: because there are a number of other staff recommended

[6:17:34] Voice 12: amendments to the policy.

[6:17:36] Voice 12: It's not just about the minimum balance,

[6:17:37] Voice 12: it's also about things that we talked about today,

[6:17:39] Voice 12: how we use our surplus,

[6:17:41] Voice 12: do we need to change that or restrict it?

[6:17:43] Voice 12: And there's a number of other changes

[6:17:46] Voice 12: that will be coming forward.

[6:17:48] Voice 12: So I would suggest this was a very worthy exercise

[6:17:51] Voice 12: to undertake to see if we are in trouble

[6:17:54] Voice 12: from a liquid resource perspective,

[6:17:57] Voice 12: if we do end up with a budget next year

[6:17:59] Voice 12: that pushes us below the minimum balance,

[6:18:01] Voice 12: It's helpful to inform that I would suggest we don't forward this to council at this time, but wait

[6:18:05] Voice 12: for the full recommendations

[6:18:07] Trustee Grove: Excellent. Okay. I think that makes good sense and let's let's look at it at our next on FBC meeting, please if we may

[6:18:15] Voice 12: Absolutely, we're tracking for that

[6:18:18] Trustee Grove: Good. So any new business or other business or old business that you want to bring up again?

[6:18:26] Trustee Grove: No seeing none. Um the and we heavens do we don't have a town hall or a delegation?

[6:18:32] Trustee Grove: so our next meeting is on May the 19th and I'm sorry it's been a scrappy meeting but we've got

[6:18:39] Trustee Grove: through it and I really appreciate how hard you have all worked and particularly our staff and

[6:18:44] Trustee Grove: Julia of course and have a good night and maybe a glass of wine would be good now

[6:18:50] Trustee Grove: let's let's meet at the local pub like we always do thank

[6:18:54] Voice 8: you chair take

[6:18:55] Trustee Grove: care bye bye thank you

[6:18:56] Trustee Grove: chair we'll see some of you next week bye