Islands Trust Council regular meeting, March 1, 2021

[0:00:00] Trustee Middleton: And anyway, I'd just like to begin by acknowledging we're holding this meeting in the traditional territories of the Coast Salish peoples, and we're grateful to live and work in those territories.

[0:00:11] Trustee Middleton: And without any further ado, I'll call this meeting to order.

[0:00:16] Trustee Middleton: And I think I just was doing an informal count.

[0:00:19] Trustee Middleton: I don't believe we're missing anybody.

[0:00:21] Trustee Middleton: And missing Ben.

[0:00:24] Trustee Middleton: Ben, yes, right.

[0:00:26] Trustee Middleton: And I don't believe he is planning to attend from what I understand because of work commitments.

[0:00:33] Trustee Middleton: So we'll proceed and welcome our guest, Julia Crosby of the procurement branch,

[0:00:39] Trustee Middleton: who's helping us with the BC Bid RFP template.

[0:00:47] Trustee Middleton: And so thank you, Julia.

[0:00:49] Trustee Middleton: And I think it might be just polite of us to maybe starting with, I'll just go from the top of my list, to have us introduce ourselves once again to Julia so she can recall the friendly faces with whom she is Zoom conferencing here.

[0:01:11] Trustee Middleton: And so starting with Trustee Wright, please, if you would introduce yourself.

[0:01:16] Voice 15: Thank you.

[0:01:17] Voice 15: So strangely enough, my name is Steve Wright.

[0:01:20] Voice 15: Thanks, Lee.

[0:01:22] Trustee Middleton: And Trustee Cahill.

[0:01:24] Trustee Middleton: Good afternoon.

[0:01:25] Trustee Middleton: Michael Cahill, Bowen Island.

[0:01:28] Trustee Middleton: And CEO, Hudson Peller.

[0:01:30] Voice 8: Hey, Julia.

[0:01:31] Voice 8: Russ, CEO of the trust.

[0:01:34] Trustee Middleton: And Trustee, our Vice Chair, Langerice, please.

[0:01:38] Voice 13: Case Langerice from Gabriola Islands, Sonoma Territory.

[0:01:42] Trustee Middleton: And Trustee, or in this case, Trustee Luckum, but generally known as Chair Luckum, if you

[0:01:48] Trustee Middleton: could introduce yourself, please.

[0:01:49] Trustee Middleton: Yes,

[0:01:50] Trustee Luckham: Peter Luckum, elected on Thetis Island in the Liaxin and Penelakut Territory,

[0:01:54] Trustee Luckham: an honor and privilege to work and live here. Elected as Chair of Council and a pleasure to

[0:02:02] Trustee Luckham: be on this committee.

[0:02:03] Trustee Middleton: Thank you. And Trustee Critchley?

[0:02:08] Trustee Critchley: Thank you. Yes, David Critchley from Denman Island. Greetings.

[0:02:12] Trustee Middleton: And then Trustee Morrison, please.

[0:02:16] Voice 12: I'm Deb Morrison. Hi, North

[0:02:17] Voice 12: North Pender Islands, TS, Sonic Territory.

[0:02:21] Voice 12: And I'm also chair of the Trust Programs Committee.

[0:02:25] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[0:02:26] Trustee Middleton: And Trustee Bren?

[0:02:28] Voice 4: So I'm the friendliest of all of the trustees

[0:02:32] Voice 4: and highly acclaimed on Saterna Island.

[0:02:37] Trustee Middleton: And I think last but not least is myself, Julia.

[0:02:40] Trustee Middleton: I'm Lee Middleton, elected on Saterna.

[0:02:44] Trustee Middleton: And we have an interruption.

[0:02:46] Trustee Middleton: Apologies.

[0:02:48] Trustee Middleton: Go away in a second.

[0:02:55] Trustee Middleton: apologies um so thank you very much and thanks once again julia for joining us and so once we

[0:03:01] Trustee Middleton: get through some of the preliminary items in our in our um agenda which includes approval of minutes

[0:03:07] Trustee Middleton: of the last meeting and the follow-up action items which we i think we'll do fairly quickly

[0:03:11] Trustee Middleton: we'll shift gears into which is the main piece of our business and and um goodness gracious i

[0:03:19] Trustee Middleton: apologize too many phones here

[0:03:21] Trustee Luckham: look at the water is a handy thing i know

[0:03:28] Trustee Middleton: amazing that was not turned off

[0:03:29] Voice 14: there

[0:03:32] Trustee Middleton: we go i think um so yes as i was saying we'll go through

[0:03:41] Trustee Middleton: the minutes of our well we have to adopt our agenda first but just to give you a sort of

[0:03:45] Trustee Middleton: play-by-play what the meeting would look like uh we'll go through our business um

[0:03:50] Trustee Middleton: um um items uh uh just general housekeeping then the the business item is they um is the actual um

[0:03:59] Trustee Middleton: uh draft rfp and so i think what we'll do is if you don't mind you they have you walk us through

[0:04:05] Trustee Middleton: some of your suggestions in the document and then we can take those to heart understand what the

[0:04:11] Trustee Middleton: next step is and then we'll we'll thank you very much for for you know we'll i'm sure there'll be a

[0:04:17] Trustee Middleton: bunch of questions so we'll make sure you're we don't say goodbye until we've

[0:04:22] Trustee Middleton: had a chance for everyone to ask questions and and then we'll go on and

[0:04:27] Trustee Middleton: and basically conclude the the editing after that point so we won't keep you

[0:04:32] Trustee Middleton: waiting for the entirety of the meeting or at least we hope not to but one never

[0:04:38] Trustee Middleton: knows okay so so with that overview just stepping back to item two on our agenda

[0:04:46] Trustee Middleton: which is an approval of the agenda there any items to add please okay so I don't

[0:04:55] Trustee Middleton: know if it's possible to take it back oh my goodness gracious I apologize I've

[0:05:00] Trustee Middleton: turned it off and so somebody really wants to get on me here if there's if we

[0:05:11] Trustee Middleton: need to have an emotion to adopt the agenda or if we can have approval by

[0:05:17] Trustee Middleton: consent

[0:05:18] Trustee Luckham: general consent okay

[0:05:20] Trustee Middleton: hearing no items added i'll say that is approved um next we go

[0:05:27] Trustee Middleton: into the uh the minutes of the uh of the previous meeting which was uh february 16th draft minutes

[0:05:33] Trustee Middleton: for uh adoption um any any comment any any anything uh that would be correction um i see

[0:05:48] Voice 15: see no errors or omissions. Likewise.

[0:05:53] Trustee Middleton: Great. Thank you. Can I ask for a motion to adopt

[0:05:56] Trustee Middleton: the minutes of February 16th, please? Yes.

[0:06:01] Trustee Middleton: Seconded by Trustee Longrace. And then the

[0:06:06] Trustee Middleton: next item on the... Oh, sorry. All in favor? Aye.

[0:06:11] Trustee Middleton: Great. Thank you. That passes. So the next item would be 3.2 resolutions without meeting.

[0:06:18] Trustee Middleton: I believe there are none and so that brings us to the follow-up action list

[0:06:27] Trustee Middleton: which as you can see let me scroll down this page six on our agenda package

[0:06:36] Trustee Middleton: everything is satisfactorily completed I believe any questions comments about

[0:06:42] Trustee Middleton: about that. Great. I think we're then able to move on to our

[0:06:50] Trustee Middleton: business items, of which there is just the one main piece of

[0:06:55] Trustee Middleton: business today. And that is the RFP. Using that we've now

[0:07:03] Trustee Middleton: translated our previous what we previously had called our terms

[0:07:06] Trustee Middleton: of reference or scope document into the the the BC bid RFP

[0:07:12] Trustee Middleton: template. And there's some items that are still need to be

[0:07:16] Trustee Middleton: be filled in and they generally idea was to get a start on the evaluation

[0:07:20] Trustee Middleton: criteria so that Julia could comment and then and then obviously today that's

[0:07:24] Trustee Middleton: going to be our main focus is is discussing how we want to review

[0:07:30] Trustee Middleton: respondents in to to this to this request for a proposal how we want to

[0:07:36] Trustee Middleton: review their proposal so without if it's okay now Julia could I just ask that we

[0:07:42] Trustee Middleton: We run through, I think the main points that you suggested were, in fact, in the evaluation criteria.

[0:07:49] Trustee Middleton: So I'm going to scroll through the bulk of the template, which is largely standardized.

[0:07:56] Trustee Middleton: And I think we only made one or two just to make it personalized to be this project.

[0:08:02] Trustee Middleton: So scrolling through, I think 3.2, which was the background, received no comment.

[0:08:08] Trustee Middleton: 3.3, which was the scope, which we've worked on.

[0:08:13] Trustee Middleton: at quite some length outlines what we're after and then what we do is we come into section

[0:08:19] Trustee Middleton: four where we talked about service requirements which basically broadly is saying what is

[0:08:32] Trustee Middleton: it that we want the contractor to do so maybe at that point we can pause and if there's

[0:08:37] Trustee Middleton: any questions and I see one already from from trustee Luckum

[0:08:43] Trustee Luckham: just as you scrolled

[0:08:47] Trustee Luckham: quickly through all of that and I certainly don't have any concerns with

[0:08:50] Trustee Luckham: all of that you covered off except that item 3.1 ministry responsibility is still

[0:08:55] Trustee Luckham: blank and it does indicate that that that should be filled in appropriately

[0:09:00] Trustee Luckham: with the assistance of procurement and so that's obviously another piece that

[0:09:04] Trustee Luckham: needs to be resolved and perhaps julia might address that sure

[0:09:09] Trustee Middleton: yeah so if you want to i i did

[0:09:12] Trustee Middleton: just exactly put it right over to you julia for three point one because i wasn't sure if it had

[0:09:16] Trustee Middleton: a relevance to us in this case um so i left it open yeah

[0:09:24] Voice 2: i mean it's usually we could probably

[0:09:26] Voice 2: because in the background you went into a lot of details about what you guys do and the purpose of

[0:09:32] Voice 2: this so uh usually the ministry responsibility it could be one small paragraph of sort of what

[0:09:40] Voice 2: you know you would do usually so uh we could probably even extrapolate a little bit what

[0:09:45] Voice 2: it was put in the 3.2 and even move it up there okay

[0:09:50] Trustee Middleton: yeah and and yes uh uh trustee yeah

[0:09:57] Trustee Luckham: well

[0:09:57] Trustee Luckham: just for clarity um uh because of the language their ministry responsibility we're obviously

[0:10:03] Trustee Luckham: Obviously, not a ministry, but you're an agent

[0:10:06] Trustee Luckham: of a ministry.

[0:10:09] Voice 2: So, I mean, we could even change that to Island Trust Responsibility.

[0:10:14] Voice 14: Sure.

[0:10:14] Voice 14: Because

[0:10:15] Voice 2: it's not really, yeah, you're not a ministry,

[0:10:17] Voice 2: so that would be fine to edit that language there.

[0:10:21] Voice 2: Great.

[0:10:22] Trustee Middleton: Great.

[0:10:22] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[0:10:23] Trustee Middleton: And Trustee Morrison, I see your hand,

[0:10:28] Trustee Middleton: and then Trustee Langer, following Trustee Morrison.

[0:10:32] Voice 12: Thank you.

[0:10:32] Voice 12: you um for for that section 3.1 it does seem like maybe the the first little bit of the background

[0:10:41] Voice 12: section which has the mandate in it and maybe a reference to the act itself with the link is like

[0:10:47] Voice 12: the right way to go

[0:10:48] Voice 2: yes yeah

[0:10:49] Voice 12: yeah so that would be great if that was just rephrased as you know

[0:10:53] Voice 12: sort of legislative responsibility or however you want to you know island trust responsibility and

[0:10:58] Voice 12: move that up that would be great

[0:10:59] Voice 14: mr

[0:11:02] Voice 8: chair yes

[0:11:04] Trustee Middleton: uh ceo hudson who's

[0:11:06] Voice 8: chair morrison referring to when

[0:11:08] Voice 8: she's when when you say someone's going to move it up

[0:11:11] Voice 12: so i am actually just saying it needs to

[0:11:15] Voice 12: be moved up

[0:11:16] Voice 8: ah got it thank you

[0:11:17] Voice 12: does that

[0:11:18] Trustee Middleton: thank you

[0:11:21] Trustee Middleton: and i

[0:11:23] Voice 5: think

[0:11:24] Trustee Middleton: at this point we might be starting

[0:11:26] Trustee Middleton: starting to lean towards um your good graces Julia and if we're leaning beyond the scope of what is

[0:11:33] Trustee Middleton: decent and reasonable please you know do uh indicate such and you know if you want to

[0:11:39] Trustee Middleton: offline or after this this uh meeting say well okay well you know there's some stuff here that

[0:11:44] Trustee Middleton: you guys have to do or I can then you know we can have that conversation but um um uh trustee

[0:11:51] Trustee Middleton: actually my

[0:11:53] Voice 13: question was what uh trustee luckham talked about the the word ministry

[0:11:58] Voice 13: and i just wondered if maybe there should be some reference to the

[0:12:01] Voice 13: the responsible ministry in in addition to what uh trustee morrison talked about

[0:12:10] Voice 13: anyway that was my question on that one and

[0:12:17] Trustee Luckham: just a note mr chair in case you didn't notice

[0:12:19] Trustee Luckham: is trustee mcconkie has joined us oh

[0:12:22] Trustee Middleton: hello um and then uh welcome trustee mcconkie and now the uh

[0:12:29] Trustee Middleton: trustee critchley sorry i see your hand up there thank

[0:12:33] Trustee Critchley: you uh yeah i just wanted to uh go along in

[0:12:37] Trustee Critchley: the same theme and ask because i've noticed this uh reference to ministry throughout the document

[0:12:43] Trustee Critchley: so could that just be a global change that wherever the word ministry appears uh should

[0:12:49] Trustee Critchley: be substituted by the words islands trust yeah

[0:12:53] Voice 2: that's a that's a great suggestion i would that's

[0:12:55] Voice 2: what i would do okay

[0:12:57] Trustee Middleton: okay

[0:12:58] Trustee Critchley: thank you

[0:12:59] Trustee Middleton: thank you um so so thank you for that clarification julia and

[0:13:05] Trustee Middleton: so uh moving down so 3.2 we're well familiar with all edits that have been requested or were made

[0:13:13] Trustee Middleton: to that section uh likewise uh 3.3 if there is anything that doesn't quite capture the conversation

[0:13:19] Trustee Middleton: of last week then obviously please please speak up but what we'll focus on

[0:13:27] Trustee Middleton: right now is beginning section four which are it's basically the three is

[0:13:33] Trustee Middleton: who we are what we generally want and then four is gets into the format with

[0:13:42] Trustee Middleton: which we wanted and the the the method that we wish to have it delivered and

[0:13:47] Trustee Middleton: and and how we will then evaluate people who respond um with their plan for delivery so

[0:13:54] Trustee Middleton: i think that trustee christian oh yes you put your hand down okay thank you um so any comment

[0:14:01] Trustee Middleton: julia at section four as we get into 4.2 the service requirements um

[0:14:08] Voice 2: no i just had that one

[0:14:10] Voice 2: question just clarifying under the 4.2a um because it said the questions pose and i was just

[0:14:18] Voice 2: just like there's no need to i don't think you need to reiterate them all again but i was just

[0:14:23] Voice 2: clarifying if you meant all the questions under those the governance advocacy planning deliverables

[0:14:28] Voice 2: is that what you was meant

[0:14:29] Trustee Middleton: exactly yeah i would

[0:14:31] Voice 2: yeah so i would just specify that and then they

[0:14:33] Voice 2: can go there's no need to sit it's just the same thing you don't have to say it over and over again

[0:14:37] Voice 2: you can just refer them back to that

[0:14:39] Trustee Middleton: okay and so this is where we we reiterate to a degree the

[0:14:46] Trustee Middleton: the deliverables, which we were planning essentially on an interim report and a final

[0:14:50] Trustee Middleton: report. And I thought that it might be helpful that we asked them to prepare a summary of their

[0:14:56] Trustee Middleton: final report that would be in a PowerPoint format that would be a highlight of findings or

[0:15:00] Trustee Middleton: recommendations. So that's what's in there. And I think that's generally what we're after. Any

[0:15:05] Trustee Middleton: comments as to any additional work we want the contract to do, of course, we can consider.

[0:15:11] Trustee Middleton: consider.

[0:15:13] Voice 2: And there was just that one note there in the 4.1 about I added some the term language

[0:15:19] Voice 2: in and I just put please update if it's not correct. Sure. Because it wasn't usually when

[0:15:23] Voice 2: we post an RFP we'll let them know how long it's going to we anticipate it being for so.

[0:15:29] Trustee Middleton: Okay I

[0:15:30] Trustee Middleton: see um hands from uh C.L. Hudson-Pillow followed by uh Trustee Langerace please.

[0:15:36] Voice 8: Thanks Mr. Chair

[0:15:37] Voice 8: So I do think you should reflect on the 4.1, the time period in question.

[0:15:44] Voice 8: And then in 4.2, you know, if you asked me, this is pretty relaxed, and maybe Julia could provide some of her expertise, but I've seen a lot more detailed service requirements.

[0:15:56] Voice 8: If you're good with, hey, we're going to get a couple updates and, I mean, do you want them to speak to Trust Council?

[0:16:06] Voice 8: Is there a forum to the reporting that you're interested in?

[0:16:11] Voice 8: You know, this is the time to have a little reflection on not just what, but how.

[0:16:16] Voice 8: I think this is the how moment.

[0:16:20] Voice 8: You want this communicated.

[0:16:22] Voice 8: you know I don't know whether you'd want just verbal project updates you might

[0:16:27] Voice 8: want you know a couple of notes to refer to or you know just a few a few things

[0:16:34] Voice 8: like that

[0:16:35] Trustee Middleton: so

[0:16:36] Voice 8: that you have so that you can report out and you know make sure

[0:16:42] Voice 8: that let's say for instance it wasn't going great you want to have moments

[0:16:49] Voice 8: where you can pivot yeah and inevitably all of these have some moment where it's

[0:16:54] Voice 8: not going great you have to you know sit and take a look and and refine the

[0:16:59] Voice 8: conversation a little bit so I offer those thoughts no

[0:17:03] Trustee Middleton: that that's great

[0:17:04] Trustee Middleton: thank you and that and this as the starting point I thought that we would

[0:17:08] Trustee Middleton: flush out some of those details and I think indeed specifying presentation to

[0:17:12] Trustee Middleton: council is is sensible and um and um yeah i'm not sure if we want to put exactly name this the exact

[0:17:26] Trustee Middleton: i mean i know in in i've seen where obviously the report is required to be a microsoft word

[0:17:32] Trustee Middleton: etc etc maybe that's sensible to to put those type of requirements in but very good input um

[0:17:39] Trustee Middleton: making notes for sure um and uh trustee language you had your hand up uh

[0:17:45] Voice 13: yeah just on uh 4.2 a

[0:17:48] Voice 13: it talks about the questions in section 3.3 and then making a reference to governance advocacy

[0:17:54] Voice 13: planning and deliverables deliverables doesn't actually have any questions per se so i just

[0:18:00] Voice 13: it's it really is talking about the governance agent advocacy and planning so

[0:18:05] Trustee Middleton: yeah just a minor

[0:18:07] Voice 13: point sure and

[0:18:12] Trustee Middleton: then anyone else with Jesse like um yes please so

[0:18:18] Trustee Luckham: I just want

[0:18:20] Trustee Luckham: to support the idea of making a presentation to council and you might

[0:18:24] Trustee Luckham: want to be specific that there'd be a question and answer because there'll be

[0:18:27] Trustee Luckham: no doubt there'll be questions um clarity and I concur that written

[0:18:34] Trustee Luckham: written reports are much better than verbal reports considering that not everybody may be

[0:18:41] Trustee Luckham: able to attend and that we might want to have to refer to written reports in the event that

[0:18:47] Trustee Luckham: there's questions that arise later on and it doesn't matter what the format is and a pdf would

[0:18:52] Trustee Luckham: actually be the more appropriate format but doesn't matter i do question however that you

[0:18:57] Trustee Luckham: really want to meet with these guys every two weeks because that's going to take time away from

[0:19:02] Trustee Luckham: the work that they're doing and that perhaps monthly is maybe more appropriate um and then

[0:19:09] Trustee Luckham: just uh on the previous sections and on this section there's a some minor wording that i

[0:19:14] Trustee Luckham: presume that we could talk about after we've finished the technical stuff necessary with

[0:19:19] Trustee Luckham: um julian for

[0:19:22] Trustee Middleton: sure yeah and i i that makes sense about monthly i think there was an intent that

[0:19:28] Trustee Middleton: it be monthly but um uh thanks for flagging that and yeah and the entire i think the the background

[0:19:34] Trustee Middleton: assumption was that there would be a uh presentation to council both at the draft phase

[0:19:40] Trustee Middleton: which is uh september or you know given the current time frame would be september and then

[0:19:46] Trustee Middleton: there would be a um an overview of of of findings and results recommendations would um be at the

[0:19:53] Trustee Middleton: december council meeting um but that's of course at the uh pleasure of i wouldn't talk to obviously

[0:20:01] Trustee Middleton: anyone outside of this committee about committing council to that um but that was sort of the rough

[0:20:08] Trustee Middleton: intent to go forward and make that request of council that there be time given for presentations

[0:20:13] Trustee Middleton: from the from the the committee slash consultants at those two uh at those two council meetings um

[0:20:26] Trustee Middleton: okay I just move forward so

[0:20:31] Voice 12: that I

[0:20:35] Trustee Middleton: just trust you like them yes

[0:20:38] Trustee Luckham: yeah it strikes

[0:20:39] Trustee Luckham: me it would be unusual to present a draft report to Council because it's not

[0:20:44] Trustee Luckham: like if you get to that stage Council is going to provide additional direction

[0:20:50] Trustee Luckham: with anything that they heard or seek clarity I and and just from they are

[0:20:58] Trustee Luckham: meeting agendas and isn't isn't get our workload isn't going to get any less i think that one

[0:21:03] Trustee Luckham: final presentation would be appropriate and it's up to this committee to review the draft

[0:21:08] Trustee Middleton: fair enough actually

[0:21:09] Trustee Middleton: i would back that too yeah i think that's

[0:21:11] Voice 15: a good idea okay

[0:21:12] Trustee Middleton: okay and uh trustee

[0:21:17] Trustee Middleton: marston um

[0:21:19] Voice 12: so i'm not i'm not totally sure how we're documenting all these changes i'm trying

[0:21:24] Voice 12: to keep track of them in my head here but so what i see in 4.2 that's been changed is that

[0:21:31] Voice 12: we would potentially have item e would be monthly not bi-monthly and there would be some form of

[0:21:39] Voice 12: written that accurate yes

[0:21:44] Trustee Middleton: um so what we would decide now is um uh i mean we may not meet

[0:21:51] Trustee Middleton: bi-weekly this is the other thing the committee the assumption is made that the committee will

[0:21:55] Trustee Middleton: meet bi-weekly it may not once the contract is let it may meet monthly um and so this would have to

[0:22:02] Trustee Middleton: be hammered out prior to um signing of a contract is when when do we want to meet and in what form

[0:22:10] Trustee Middleton: do we want data presented to us when we do meet and we've heard some good suggestions about about

[0:22:15] Trustee Middleton: that um and we obviously we i think at our next meeting we will look at what does the future

[0:22:23] Trustee Middleton: your meeting schedule this committee look like going forwards and so some

[0:22:30] Trustee Middleton: caveat could be placed in that section II to note that that the committee may

[0:22:34] Trustee Middleton: be meeting monthly so

[0:22:36] Voice 12: so Lee if I can just so I would support like the once

[0:22:40] Voice 12: monthly kind of idea I seriously won't be attending every two week meetings we

[0:22:47] Voice 12: will be alternating with my vice chair if that's the case because there's no

[0:22:50] Voice 12: No way I can make every

[0:22:52] Voice 12: two-week meetings for the next, like, I don't know how long.

[0:22:56] Voice 12: But so I would definitely lobby for the once-a-month updates.

[0:22:59] Voice 12: And I think during the scope of this project, that's sufficient for keeping them on task

[0:23:03] Voice 12: and not going wildly astray, but still being informed.

[0:23:09] Voice 12: And then I would lobby for not over-prescribing the form, but definitely making it written

[0:23:15] Voice 12: sort of feedback in like some sort of draft notes or like you know themes that are emerging or

[0:23:23] Voice 12: something like that I don't know like some kind of update notes but I do not what I don't want

[0:23:28] Voice 12: to see is I don't want to see the consultant putting all their time into notes that are

[0:23:32] Voice 12: coming to us I want enough to be able to like give feedback on and like share thinking on but not so

[0:23:39] Voice 12: much that they're spending all their time reporting and it's the balance that I struggle

[0:23:42] Voice 12: with generally across the trust how much is like too much detail how much is just like let's go do

[0:23:47] Voice 12: the work and so it's it's a balance and i don't know how best um julia if there's any advice you

[0:23:54] Voice 12: can give us on what the language that works best for finding that kind of balance or if there's

[0:23:59] Voice 12: guidance that we can have on that well

[0:24:03] Voice 2: every project's a bit unique i mean i would definitely

[0:24:05] Voice 2: say i mean monthly is probably more appropriate because the more like you said the more often you

[0:24:10] Voice 2: you ask them to report out to you as well that's going to be also an added cost that they're going

[0:24:14] Voice 2: to charge back if you're going to want violet weekly um you know updates that's going to just

[0:24:20] Voice 2: end up costing more so i think just by keeping as a month and i mean you could always leave it

[0:24:27] Voice 2: like however you want it presented to you you know whether it's like an email update or um i mean you

[0:24:35] Voice 2: put a couple options there and can even say to be determined with a successful proponent that could

[0:24:40] Voice 2: be something that that the at that time you could possibly decide how detailed and what format you

[0:24:46] Voice 2: want for the the monthly updates yeah

[0:24:50] Voice 12: that would be great because then we get the advice of like

[0:24:52] Voice 12: the successful proponent we can actually like they probably have a format they've been using

[0:24:56] Voice 12: and that's great yeah

[0:24:58] Voice 2: yeah exactly yeah um

[0:25:01] Trustee Middleton: thank you trustee brent did you have your hand up before

[0:25:04] Trustee Middleton: and i missed i missed you and trustee christie i see you're here i

[0:25:07] Voice 4: did but basically once uh i

[0:25:10] Voice 4: agree with the last bits of the conversation i mean once a successful proponent is is chosen

[0:25:15] Voice 4: there's going to be some discussion as to uh the best way to update and all of those things we

[0:25:20] Voice 4: should be covering that um then not now in the kind of detail we are in my view thanks

[0:25:28] Trustee Middleton: trustee critchley please thank

[0:25:31] Trustee Critchley: you i just wondered if this is the time to consider whether

[0:25:35] Trustee Critchley: uh any part of the reporting might be subject to a confidentiality in terms of you know meet

[0:25:42] Trustee Critchley: the qualifications for an in-camera meeting um and if if so then should we put some wording

[0:25:51] Trustee Critchley: in this portion of the rfp uh reflecting that that certain you know if it's uh sensitive or

[0:26:00] Trustee Critchley: dealing with an individual or something like that personnel matter uh that can be reported

[0:26:07] Trustee Critchley: separately and uh presented to an in-camera meeting perhaps julia could uh comment on on

[0:26:14] Trustee Critchley: whether that's a a practice julia

[0:26:19] Trustee Middleton: please yeah go ahead well

[0:26:20] Voice 2: i mean yes again that could those

[0:26:22] Voice 2: details could always be incorporated into the final agreement that you have with the successful

[0:26:26] Voice 2: I mean, it doesn't hurt if we could add a note stating that, that this report may be shared in an in-camera situation, so they're aware of that, but I think that how we handle that could be determined with a successful proponent only.

[0:26:46] Trustee Middleton: And Trustee Luckham, I think you had your hand up.

[0:26:50] Trustee Middleton: Were you speaking to that?

[0:26:52] Trustee Middleton: I wanted to speak to that point.

[0:26:56] Trustee Middleton: You're muted, Chair Luckham.

[0:27:00] Trustee Luckham: I'm struggling with that a little bit about the concept of needing to report out in camera about

[0:27:07] Trustee Luckham: anything. This is a public process. We're not asking the proponent to judge or any of the staff

[0:27:16] Trustee Luckham: in this. It's about a process and I can't see that there would be a necessity for that. I don't know

[0:27:26] Trustee Luckham: what the if the cao has any comments with respect to um the terms of this kind of a contract um

[0:27:32] Trustee Luckham: where there might be things that we would talk about in camera well

[0:27:38] Voice 8: uh thanks uh mr chair yeah

[0:27:41] Voice 8: i can't really foresee that but as a local government you're in control of what's in camera

[0:27:45] Voice 8: and what's not so if i don't think you need the ascent i mean this this material um you have to

[0:27:52] Voice 8: look the front who owns the material um is the key consideration so that if something came up

[0:27:58] Voice 8: through the course of this and uh you needed to be in camera you as the local government

[0:28:02] Voice 8: i think can say that for these reasons this matters going in camera and you can invite

[0:28:07] Voice 8: whatever person is who's involved into an in-camera situation um and deal with it at

[0:28:13] Voice 8: that time i don't think you have to write anything into the document at this time

[0:28:17] Trustee Middleton: okay thank you yeah and and and to reiterate and i'm sure that wasn't uh trustee christie's intent

[0:28:23] Trustee Middleton: this is most certainly not a review about people or individual performance but rather um structural

[0:28:31] Trustee Middleton: um structural elements and and policies and procedures but to the point something could

[0:28:38] Trustee Middleton: come out that we want to be sensitive to so thank you for those comments uh ceo hudson peller um and

[0:28:45] Trustee Middleton: chair or trustee or TPC chair Morrison please

[0:28:49] Voice 12: okay so 4.2 B there's it says

[0:29:04] Voice 12: interviews of key staff as well as trustees are we naming key staff who

[0:29:12] Voice 12: who gets to design key staff and is it all trustees?

[0:29:17] Voice 12: Are they all invited to be interviewed?

[0:29:19] Voice 12: I guess that's the other question that I have.

[0:29:21] Voice 12: My answers to those questions would be

[0:29:24] Voice 12: management level staff and yes.

[0:29:29] Voice 12: So all trustees would be invited into responding.

[0:29:33] Voice 12: So, but I just wanna be clear if that's what the scope is.

[0:29:36] Voice 12: I

[0:29:36] Trustee Middleton: think, yeah, the intent here was to provide the caveat

[0:29:40] Trustee Middleton: for the CEO so that it's not carte blanche drawing on staff time that he in

[0:29:45] Trustee Middleton: this role of this committee can be the gatekeeper somewhat between the the the

[0:29:51] Trustee Middleton: consultants and and the staff body and would be you know and just laying out

[0:29:57] Trustee Middleton: the expectation that it's not

[0:30:00] Trustee Middleton: organization must continue to function and function well and so that this work can't be at

[0:30:04] Trustee Middleton: the expense of the organization's functioning and the ceo will be you know diligently playing the

[0:30:10] Trustee Middleton: role of ensuring that's the case through this work so that's really all that b is is sort of

[0:30:14] Trustee Middleton: a caveat to empower the ceo to uh not have the staff consumed in endless survey taking or whatever

[0:30:23] Trustee Middleton: and you know having said that it's to us as a committee to look at the proposed methodology

[0:30:28] Trustee Middleton: and also be vigilant in that regard

[0:30:30] Trustee Middleton: to what we see as an effective approach.

[0:30:36] Trustee Middleton: And I'm anticipating that the methodology

[0:30:39] Trustee Middleton: would name key staff members,

[0:30:40] Trustee Middleton: but I think to your point, Trustee Morrison,

[0:30:44] Trustee Middleton: it doesn't hurt to name that there's an expectation

[0:30:46] Trustee Middleton: that the trustees and key staff members

[0:30:48] Trustee Middleton: will be interviewed.

[0:30:51] Voice 12: Yeah, and I think I would like a little,

[0:30:53] Voice 12: I would like it clearer in the language of 4.2b

[0:30:56] Voice 12: that all trustees would be invited into that conversation because i think that we run the risk

[0:31:02] Voice 12: of having a skewed version if people if it isn't really explicitly clear in the contract that all

[0:31:11] Voice 12: trustees would be invited because if some what i can see is like some people say they don't want

[0:31:16] Voice 12: to be involved and then we get only 14 trustees involved in the review and then that that slants

[0:31:24] Voice 12: the way people understand it but if it's explicit in the contract you can see that it was clear that

[0:31:28] Voice 12: all were invited into it fair

[0:31:30] Trustee Middleton: enough any other comments on section four before we move to five

[0:31:36] Trustee Middleton: um chair larkin yes yeah

[0:31:39] Trustee Luckham: um thanks for that question uh deb um and that's obviously a

[0:31:43] Trustee Luckham: simple change in that paragraph just to say all trustees um but this also um uh sort of there's

[0:31:50] Trustee Luckham: a couple of things that we touched on here about conversations that may happen during the process

[0:31:55] Trustee Luckham: of the enactment of the contract and as things get evolved that there should be identified liaisons

[0:32:03] Trustee Luckham: to the um to the contractor and um just off the cup i would suggest that that be identified as

[0:32:10] Trustee Luckham: the chair and the senior staff member um minimum and i don't need any needs to be bigger than that

[0:32:16] Trustee Luckham: so that when issues arise, that even maybe confidentiality may come into question,

[0:32:22] Trustee Luckham: that the two, and I'll just say the two of you, could sort that out accordingly.

[0:32:30] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, and thank you for that.

[0:32:32] Trustee Middleton: And maybe I can, I think this was our understanding that if there's a desire to speak to any staff member,

[0:32:38] Trustee Middleton: senior or otherwise, that request can only and has to go through the CAO.

[0:32:43] Trustee Middleton: And that's how we've sort of engineered the committee and its role.

[0:32:47] Trustee Middleton: and yes uh yeah i

[0:32:50] Voice 8: think that's there's a distinction between um what chair luck was

[0:32:54] Voice 8: talking about and and that previous point that we can discuss um just make it you know i find 4.2

[0:33:00] Voice 8: very important because this is where you say what you want and how and the how part so in b

[0:33:08] Voice 8: what you're saying there i think is this work is going to require making data requests of staff

[0:33:17] Voice 8: half, semicolon. Two, in-person meetings. Like those are the things you're expecting this person

[0:33:25] Voice 8: to do, I think, right? As opposed to just doing a paper study, right?

[0:33:30] Voice 8: So this, if there's any of

[0:33:32] Voice 8: those things, they should be in that portion. I would also actually add in, it's expected that

[0:33:38] Voice 8: there's significant research, paper research associated with the Allens Trust. The trust is

[0:33:42] Voice 8: weird and you know it's structure um this decision making process it's gonna need

[0:33:49] Voice 8: um more than interviews it's gonna the proponents gonna have to

[0:33:55] Voice 8: demonstrate some um some good legislative understanding kind of kind of stuff so that

[0:34:00] Trustee Middleton: would

[0:34:00] Voice 8: be like i would have that in as a a third item and it's great to know you want all trustees

[0:34:06] Voice 8: because that's a big tick you know that's a big money item as opposed to four trustees you're

[0:34:12] Voice 8: going to try and schedule 26 meetings with trustees and if you wanted anyone else interviewed

[0:34:18] Voice 8: or anything like that that would be in that section so i think these uh good to spend the

[0:34:24] Voice 8: time you're you're you're spending on it okay great um

[0:34:30] Trustee Middleton: thank you yes uh trustee brent your

[0:34:33] Trustee Middleton: hand is raised

[0:34:34] Voice 4: no i see trustee morrison wants to speak again she's waving her hand back and

[0:34:38] Voice 4: no

[0:34:38] Voice 12: trustee brand it's all you i'll go after you

[0:34:41] Voice 4: are you are you sure

[0:34:43] Voice 4: yeah so this all sounds good i i think it's important that we say indeed that trustees

[0:34:52] Voice 4: are are all trustees will be invited whether they decide to speak or not and and how long the

[0:34:59] Voice 4: proponent decides to spend with each trustee i think we have to leave up to the trustee i think

[0:35:05] Voice 4: in terms of contact the two chairs make sense that would be or the cao and the chair of the

[0:35:11] Voice 4: select committee so cao hudson peller and uh trustee middleton that does make sense and i think

[0:35:19] Voice 4: um they have to both be aware of when the other is being asked by the proponent exactly what is

[0:35:26] Voice 4: being requested so that the committee is is fully informed both staff and the committee are fully

[0:35:33] Voice 4: informed as to what is going on thanks go ahead trustee morrison i'm i'm dying to hear from you

[0:35:41] Voice 4: again i'm

[0:35:43] Voice 12: going to talk for the next hour again this is the stuff that i like things i do as a

[0:35:47] Voice 12: living and i think it's super interesting so um if it's okay chair one other thing about 4.2b

[0:35:54] Voice 12: be. So 4.2B, the other piece as CAO Hudson-Piller named, I think we are missing some kind of,

[0:36:12] Voice 12: I think it's a policy analysis, or it's like a mapping of the system of the Islands Trust,

[0:36:20] Voice 12: like how the system is working or not working and what's guiding it, right? So you can talk

[0:36:25] Voice 12: to trustees and they're going to give you one version, or you can look at the policies and say,

[0:36:29] Voice 12: oh, look, we only recovered $130,000 last year in fees for something that's supposed to be 80%

[0:36:34] Voice 12: cost recovery. So like, you know, and so understanding at least what the guidance is,

[0:36:41] Voice 12: not necessarily that we only recovered $130,000, that's probably too deep for them to go. But the

[0:36:48] Voice 12: other version is, what is the mechanism that's like funding and organizing the work? Or what

[0:36:54] Voice 12: What is the mechanism that's directing the organization of flow?

[0:36:59] Voice 12: And so I think that there is some kind of policy analysis here

[0:37:07] Voice 12: that would help to make concrete recommendations

[0:37:11] Voice 12: about where policies are or not.

[0:37:14] Voice 12: And so I'm trying to understand what that is.

[0:37:17] Trustee Middleton: If I may just jump in there,

[0:37:19] Trustee Middleton: that was sort of what I was getting at with Section A,

[0:37:22] Trustee Middleton: is how, obviously, what we're asking them to do

[0:37:26] Trustee Middleton: was elaborated fairly extensively in 3.3.

[0:37:29] Trustee Middleton: So how much do we repeat that?

[0:37:32] Trustee Critchley: And

[0:37:33] Trustee Middleton: we've heard Julia's comments

[0:37:34] Trustee Middleton: because the idea is, and to balance what Russ has said,

[0:37:37] Trustee Middleton: we have a certain expectation,

[0:37:39] Trustee Middleton: but also we want to be open to the field to say,

[0:37:42] Trustee Middleton: how would you do this?

[0:37:43] Trustee Middleton: We don't want to presume

[0:37:46] Trustee Middleton: that we have a full understanding of this type of work.

[0:37:48] Trustee Middleton: We're open to input from the community of consultants

[0:37:52] Trustee Middleton: And so I guess the balance I struck, and I totally take the input of our CEO and Chair Lockham that there needs to be a few more items in here, but the balance I struck was to be sort of broader and open, knowing it's us who make the decision.

[0:38:07] Trustee Middleton: So what we do is we need to be presented with a methodology and an approach to this work that we like or that we agree to or that we think is sufficiently comprehensive.

[0:38:17] Trustee Middleton: comprehensive uh you know that was kind of my guiding thoughts and just kind of coming up with

[0:38:23] Trustee Middleton: i actually intended to come up with a skeleton that we could all add to and then as i just

[0:38:27] Trustee Middleton: completed the skeleton i thought i don't know that we need that much more here but it's a great

[0:38:31] Trustee Middleton: discussion so yeah that was just the background thinking but i i hear you definitely um trustee

[0:38:38] Trustee Middleton: grant so

[0:38:42] Voice 4: i agree that uh with uh trustee morrison but i think you know given who we're going to be

[0:38:49] Voice 4: the kind of uh proponent we're going to be attracting um i think they kind of realize

[0:38:54] Voice 4: that we want them to look at the organization the policies and the processes it goes

[0:38:59] Voice 4: without saying and if we have to prescribe that they should be doing that i don't think

[0:39:03] Voice 4: that's the kind of proponent we want so i mean i've been through enough of these um that uh

[0:39:11] Voice 4: you know there's a lot of there's a lot of talent out there uh we're going to be able to

[0:39:15] Voice 4: to uh look through uh the various bids that we get and determine okay have these people done

[0:39:21] Voice 4: this stuff before if we have to tell people to look at the processes and policies we don't want

[0:39:27] Voice 4: them okay so and then this is a waste of time but it's not a waste of time because

[0:39:33] Voice 4: we've people have done this before and there's some familiarity with the people that are out there

[0:39:40] Voice 4: and and they get what we want without even us having to prescribe it we can prescribe it a

[0:39:45] Voice 4: little bit but so i think we're over in my view we're overworking this right now and uh and yeah

[0:39:53] Trustee Middleton: sorry that's it um trustee kale you have your hand raised yes

[0:39:59] Voice 6: following up on what trustee

[0:40:01] Voice 6: brent has just said and my experience of these things i've always preferred when dealing with

[0:40:07] Voice 6: what will be a talented audience to be marginally less prescriptive the more prescriptive

[0:40:15] Voice 6: set out these requirements make the changes you you we've indicated that that's common sense and

[0:40:22] Voice 6: a few other additions but let's not bind their hands let us not underestimate their abilities

[0:40:29] Voice 6: they've done this before and i i'm uh i i'm very much in sync with trustee brent uh not not to not

[0:40:38] Voice 6: to not to over prescribe not not to be over dogmatic uh and and if anyway slightly looser

[0:40:45] Voice 6: on on this get down the essentials we've discussed them and and frankly trust trust in the people

[0:40:54] Voice 6: we're talking to uh and as well their their interpretation of these service requirements

[0:41:01] Voice 6: will be highly indicative of the people who want to pick or not pick.

[0:41:06] Voice 6: So, no, I'm much more inclined to let it go

[0:41:09] Voice 6: with the changes that we've already agreed to.

[0:41:14] Trustee Middleton: I think the next to speak would be Trustee Wright.

[0:41:18] Voice 15: Yeah, I think we're repeating a bit of our conversation from last week

[0:41:22] Voice 15: or last meeting because we were talking about what are we prescribing

[0:41:26] Voice 15: and how far do we over-prescribe. So I'd just like to tie

[0:41:29] Voice 15: my horse up to um um paul and to michael i i don't think uh i don't think we need to prescribe so

[0:41:38] Voice 15: much i think we have to leave the uh intuitiveness and creativity with the with the people that we're

[0:41:44] Voice 15: going to pick to do this and

[0:41:46] Trustee Middleton: um i think the ceos and chair luckham's comments were good clarifying

[0:41:51] Trustee Middleton: comments that we can add in and i will do so um and um i think we uh we're gonna get a little bit

[0:42:00] Trustee Middleton: more illumination as we go through section five as well but um anybody else's hand at this point uh

[0:42:07] Trustee Middleton: yes uh trustee uh you're muted uh peter i

[0:42:17] Trustee Luckham: think i'd know better anyway um i realize there's an

[0:42:20] Trustee Luckham: opportunity and requirements here to be more prescriptive but i uh i also with some experience

[0:42:28] Trustee Luckham: in some of these sorts of things.

[0:42:31] Trustee Luckham: If you don't specifically ask for something up front,

[0:42:36] Trustee Luckham: you're not going to get it in the deliverable

[0:42:38] Trustee Luckham: without additional cost and cost overrun.

[0:42:41] Trustee Luckham: So we want to make sure that what we're specifying

[0:42:46] Trustee Luckham: is what we want,

[0:42:47] Trustee Luckham: because otherwise you're not going to get anything else.

[0:42:49] Trustee Luckham: And certainly there's some flexibility there,

[0:42:51] Trustee Luckham: but often a proponent is sensitive

[0:42:56] Trustee Luckham: to how much more it's going to cost them.

[0:42:58] Trustee Luckham: and uh so perhaps that needs to be considered in the requirements sure

[0:43:03] Trustee Middleton: yeah and and i think uh as

[0:43:06] Trustee Middleton: julia will probably speak to it obviously some of these items can be run through to ensure everybody

[0:43:10] Trustee Middleton: has a correct understanding at the um at a meeting with the proponent that you you meet before

[0:43:18] Trustee Middleton: arriving in terms of a contract and ensure common understanding um and i think that's something that

[0:43:24] Trustee Middleton: that we would request is that there be a meeting

[0:43:27] Trustee Middleton: with the proponent prior to the successful proponent,

[0:43:30] Trustee Middleton: but we'll take your guidance there, Julia.

[0:43:33] Trustee Middleton: But Trustee Brent had his hand up

[0:43:35] Trustee Middleton: and then a follow-up from Chair Lockem.

[0:43:42] Trustee Middleton: So I'll disappear, there he is.

[0:43:45] Voice 4: Exactly what you said.

[0:43:47] Voice 4: I mean, anyone that's done this before,

[0:43:50] Voice 4: when the successful proponent,

[0:43:53] Voice 4: selected proponent is chosen, there are meetings

[0:43:56] Voice 4: And we hash out the details. So that's when this happens. And it's very common practice, to the best of my knowledge. So I think that's really where it sits, Peter, not prescribing stuff way in advance. So that's my thought based on my experience.

[0:44:19] Voice 4: And

[0:44:22] Trustee Middleton: Trela, can we add a follow-up point? And mute it again, Peter.

[0:44:30] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, so I guess struggling a little bit there, and perhaps through the chair,

[0:44:36] Trustee Luckham: Julia might like to comment with respect to hashing out the details of the contract

[0:44:41] Trustee Luckham: with the successful proponent, because that might change the circumstances in which the other

[0:44:49] Voice 14: contenders

[0:44:50] Trustee Luckham: may or may not have had an opportunity to consider in the delivery. That opportunity is

[0:45:01] Trustee Luckham: not spelled out in here about negotiation or whatever it is you might want to call it,

[0:45:06] Trustee Luckham: hashing out of the final contract. I don't see that specified in this terms of RFD. I'd like

[0:45:15] Trustee Luckham: to know more about that and how that is perceived as unfolding yeah

[0:45:23] Voice 2: this is that they we do have a

[0:45:25] Voice 2: negotiated rfp that's been used a few times for some really high level uh procurements i mean

[0:45:31] Voice 2: generally you want to ensure that the scope of work is a scope of work that that's not going to

[0:45:36] Voice 2: change if you want to hash out details around you know how how they're going to deliver these

[0:45:42] Voice 2: reports or meetings or what they're going to look like those sort of details are fine to hash out

[0:45:46] Voice 2: But you just want to ensure that the overall scope of work is going to stay the same so it's consistent across the board for whoever put in for it.

[0:45:55] Voice 2: That wouldn't change drastically during any talks with the proponent who's successful.

[0:46:00] Trustee Middleton: Sure. Yeah. No, thank you.

[0:46:04] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, and I think some of the input today into Section 4

[0:46:07] Trustee Middleton: certainly would bring clarity to a bidder

[0:46:14] Trustee Middleton: while also keeping open their chance to be innovative

[0:46:21] Trustee Middleton: and creative in the methodology they propose to do the work.

[0:46:26] Trustee Middleton: So I actually have quite a few notes from what everybody said there,

[0:46:30] Trustee Middleton: and I see nothing objectionable adding any of them.

[0:46:33] Trustee Middleton: And so I'll do that for our subsequent draft.

[0:46:38] Trustee Middleton: At this point, are we comfortable to move into the next section, which is Section 5, the requirements section?

[0:46:49] Trustee Middleton: Okay, great.

[0:46:51] Trustee Middleton: Now, this is where we're getting increasingly into the area of expertise of Julia and procurement, of course,

[0:46:57] Trustee Middleton: which is um uh who would be eventually billing building the um um the evaluation matrix or the

[0:47:07] Trustee Middleton: evaluation manual as i think you call it but it it seemed to us that uh uh that the the requirements

[0:47:18] Trustee Middleton: again are we can sort of kick it off with a fairly broad set of requirements i mean you could you

[0:47:25] Trustee Middleton: You could be extremely precise about the type of organization you're looking for and even to the point of insisting that they had previously worked with the Islands Trust.

[0:47:34] Trustee Middleton: But I don't know that that gives a broad enough ask to see who might be out there with some insights that they may be able to offer us truly important insights through this work.

[0:47:50] Trustee Middleton: So that's kind of, again, the framing.

[0:47:51] Trustee Middleton: Is there anything you wanted to comment on, Julia, just that, you know, you suggest that we should specify the number of years, and you've added that we have five years there, which seems reasonable to me.

[0:48:05] Voice 2: Yeah, that's pretty standard that we usually specify a minimum there.

[0:48:09] Voice 2: And again, that can change to whatever the group would feel would be appropriate for this.

[0:48:15] Voice 2: Just keep in mind, everything that's in these sections, like this is what we're evaluating.

[0:48:18] Voice 2: So anything that you want them to provide for you to evaluate, this is where you're going to state that.

[0:48:24] Voice 2: Because if it's not stated there, they won't provide it, and then we can't evaluate it.

[0:48:30] Voice 2: So this is a really important part to the RFP for sure.

[0:48:34] Trustee Middleton: Okay.

[0:48:37] Trustee Middleton: And then, so some of this is boilerplate, like you'll see we're reserved the right to actually not award at all.

[0:48:45] Trustee Middleton: um if if uh if there's not nobody that we're impressed with or think has presented something

[0:48:53] Trustee Middleton: we're interested in uh so that's um so basically what we're asking for is what is their relevant

[0:49:02] Trustee Middleton: experience please give us some examples and um um and again i asked um about repeating what we're

[0:49:13] Trustee Middleton: after which is effectively outlined in 3.3 you'll recall that's our scope uh the project scope

[0:49:19] Trustee Middleton: section and so i see your response you're you're basically um um you're basically just saying

[0:49:26] Trustee Middleton: identify what would be the proposed approach methodology to providing the governance and

[0:49:32] Trustee Middleton: management review and it's a small sentence but that's the crux obviously of the rfp is what what

[0:49:37] Trustee Middleton: But what the proponent comes back with there is what we will be evaluating.

[0:49:44] Trustee Middleton: And I know it's not a lot, but this is where we have to trust that the time we put into 3.3 was time well spent,

[0:49:50] Trustee Middleton: that we're actually understanding well what our cells are after without understanding.

[0:49:55] Trustee Middleton: And I think Russ was very helpful to us in saying, do not predispose the answer, do not prejudge the outcome, change the wording there.

[0:50:02] Trustee Middleton: there. And so we actually have a document that I think is open and will allow someone

[0:50:07] Trustee Middleton: to come forward. But you know, open to comments here at this point. Trustee Kahle and then

[0:50:20] Trustee Middleton: CEO Hudson-Pillard.

[0:50:22] Voice 6: Yes, through the Chair and if I may ask, Julia. Julia, I presume looking at Section 5.1 and

[0:50:32] Voice 6: and the remainder of that section,

[0:50:34] Voice 6: that the people most likely to be looking at the RFP

[0:50:39] Voice 6: will have seen this on something extremely similar

[0:50:44] Voice 6: on all other BCBID documents.

[0:50:48] Voice 6: This is, I wouldn't, please don't think this is remiss,

[0:50:51] Voice 6: but this is pretty much a standard document

[0:50:54] Voice 6: or part of the document.

[0:50:57] Voice 2: Yes, I mean, this part is always customized

[0:50:59] Voice 2: to the project somewhat,

[0:51:00] Voice 2: want but it's very common to to ask for relevant experience provide examples of work so a lot of

[0:51:07] Voice 2: the consulting companies that we deal with is going to be standard information that they provide

[0:51:12] Voice 2: um for for most of their proposals yes yeah

[0:51:16] Trustee Middleton: thank you that's what i thought thank you yeah

[0:51:19] Trustee Middleton: and um thank you ceo hudson pillow please well

[0:51:22] Voice 8: i'd wait till any elected officials spoken first

[0:51:25] Voice 8: and then i'd spoke after because i wouldn't want to presume to to to speak ahead of anybody you

[0:51:29] Voice 8: and if no one else wishes to, I'll speak.

[0:51:33] Trustee Middleton: Go ahead.

[0:51:34] Trustee Middleton: I don't think I see anyone else's hands, so please go ahead.

[0:51:37] Trustee Middleton: I think of this as

[0:51:39] Voice 8: an opportunity to,

[0:51:41] Voice 8: and respectfully to the people who have done this lots of times,

[0:51:44] Voice 8: I don't think completely saying, hey, let's talk to anybody as an approach.

[0:51:50] Voice 8: This is an approach, there's a possibility to narrow the field

[0:51:53] Voice 8: to a set of experiences and levels of professionalism

[0:51:58] Voice 8: that gives you a hint.

[0:52:00] Voice 8: and gives them a hint. So for instance, because we're asking inside 3.3 for a bunch of comparative

[0:52:10] Voice 8: analysis, I'd want them to really know the Islands Trust before they walk in the door.

[0:52:17] Voice 8: So I'd want somewhere in here, and I just want to say this for the record, so it's on the record,

[0:52:21] Voice 8: that there should be something that says demonstrated experience understanding the

[0:52:27] Voice 8: legislative framework of the islands trust and they can demonstrate that to you in the bit that

[0:52:32] Voice 8: means hey they they send a junior or somebody to do some research on this so that that it's

[0:52:39] Voice 8: contextual it's a contextual bid um i you know if i was writing this that's the way i'd i'd

[0:52:46] Voice 8: approach it and it would save me the time of them doing that inside the contract um to do that work

[0:52:54] Voice 8: and i think you just you know because it's a complex legislative environment it'd be great

[0:52:59] Voice 8: if someone had a bit of insight into how the trust functions and this is a way to get them to

[0:53:05] Voice 8: to take a look at it

[0:53:07] Trustee Middleton: thank you for that uh yeah yeah

[0:53:14] Voice 4: and uh actually i i um i want this on the

[0:53:18] Voice 4: the record as well i disagree uh for the last um excuse me yeah of course yeah of course no

[0:53:28] Voice 4: absolutely of course i don't

[0:53:31] Voice 14: please

[0:53:32] Voice 4: just let me let me finish without comment um i do disagree

[0:53:36] Voice 4: because when i joined uh the trust as as a elected official over nine years ago i was told that the

[0:53:45] Voice 4: The trust was a unique organization and that I had no experience whatsoever.

[0:53:51] Voice 4: And I disagree.

[0:53:53] Voice 4: I think there are processes that make sense in many organizations.

[0:53:59] Voice 4: And so I don't think it's an absolute that someone needs to know about the trust.

[0:54:06] Voice 4: It is not that unique.

[0:54:07] Voice 4: There are processes that are common to many organizations.

[0:54:11] Voice 4: And so, while it is a good to have with experience with the trust and the unique legislative environment, it's not an absolute. I want someone who understands organizational processes. I want someone that understands value for money and effective processes.

[0:54:33] Voice 4: So I don't think it's an absolute that they fully have great knowledge of the trust.

[0:54:43] Voice 4: There's many different places that do preserve and protect.

[0:54:48] Voice 4: So that's my opinion that

[0:54:50] Trustee Middleton: I want on the record.

[0:54:54] Trustee Middleton: Next, Trustee Critchley, please.

[0:54:58] Trustee Critchley: Thank you.

[0:54:59] Trustee Critchley: Yes, I'm reluctantly going to have to disagree with my learned CAO.

[0:55:05] Trustee Critchley: and equally reluctantly agree with trustee brent

[0:55:11] Trustee Critchley: i'm trying to defuse the situation here obviously now i i do feel that if we if we insist on prior

[0:55:20] Trustee Critchley: um college and perhaps work relationship with the trust we are going to narrow down the field of

[0:55:30] Trustee Critchley: applicants substantially. And I would rather see, I'm hopeful that we'll receive a number of

[0:55:36] Trustee Critchley: proposals. If we get too specific on that requirement, I think we could end up with

[0:55:42] Trustee Critchley: none or one. And that would not be a healthy thing. I think we want to encourage a field

[0:55:49] Trustee Critchley: that we can then choose from. And possibly some wording as to experience with working

[0:55:56] Trustee Critchley: with local government that might be a worthwhile thing but i'm not particularly advocating for that

[0:56:02] Trustee Critchley: and i agree with the earlier comments that were made about leaving this fairly fairly open for

[0:56:10] Trustee Critchley: respondents so those are my comments thank

[0:56:15] Trustee Middleton: you um and if i may just uh at risk of mis paraphrasing

[0:56:19] Trustee Middleton: the ceo's comments i think at the bare minimum is suggesting that they demonstrate in the rfp

[0:56:25] Trustee Middleton: that they've actually put the time in to research the nature of the organization

[0:56:30] Trustee Middleton: and can demonstrate that they've done so.

[0:56:32] Trustee Middleton: And I think that's reasonable.

[0:56:34] Trustee Middleton: I think that's not overly shackling anyone.

[0:56:38] Trustee Middleton: But Trustee Cahill, you have your hand up.

[0:56:42] Voice 6: I'd like to say awareness, some understanding, certainly research, good.

[0:56:48] Voice 6: Let that stand on its merits.

[0:56:49] Voice 6: However, to use the Islands Trust knowledge as a fine filter is something I'm totally opposed to.

[0:56:57] Voice 6: It's the quality and standard of the consultancy concerned and let their knowledge,

[0:57:05] Voice 6: much of it or little of it, stand on its merits.

[0:57:08] Voice 6: But certainly never, ever used as a yea or nay, whether they have it or not.

[0:57:14] Voice 6: I think that's abhorrent and

[0:57:17] Trustee Middleton: Dude, this is to Julia's

[0:57:19] Trustee Middleton: Perspective here. This is where the actual weighting of these criteria comes in in the evaluation you

[0:57:25] Trustee Middleton: You're able to assign a weighted value now do that

[0:57:28] Trustee Middleton: I must say that I think we have abused your time mightily here

[0:57:32] Trustee Middleton: I just want to check in with you. We're now pushing an hour and I think I said 15 minutes

[0:57:36] Trustee Middleton: That was way off so I apologize for that

[0:57:41] Trustee Middleton: You're obviously welcome to stick with us to the end of the document here, which we are nearing. Yeah,

[0:57:46] Voice 2: we're almost yeah, we're getting close

[0:57:47] Voice 2: I'm fine. Don't worry.

[0:57:48] Trustee Middleton: Okay. All right. Thank you

[0:57:52] Trustee Middleton: Yeah,

[0:57:54] Voice 2: but you would like any yeah, this is all waiting

[0:57:56] Voice 2: so all you really want to do here is you want to you always want to state the

[0:57:59] Voice 2: Minimum that you're looking for and then obviously if they go above and beyond that they give a really amazing answer

[0:58:07] Voice 2: Obviously, that's all scored accordingly

[0:58:08] Voice 2: um for this and

[0:58:13] Trustee Middleton: um and could maybe what would be useful at this point is to say okay let's assume

[0:58:18] Trustee Middleton: we come up with language we we agree to or can some of us can live with others you know maybe

[0:58:24] Trustee Middleton: either way we we move a document on um and we say julia we've done our best here over to you what's

[0:58:32] Trustee Middleton: the next what do you envisage the next step what what what should we then do what what can we

[0:58:36] Trustee Middleton: we reasonably expect you to do how how does it then get to the next level um

[0:58:45] Voice 2: well i think the

[0:58:45] Voice 2: next thing would be if you once you've discussed and you've cleaned up the version that i sent you

[0:58:50] Voice 2: is perhaps them back to me for um one last sort of review and comment um we obviously have to

[0:58:57] Voice 2: determine the the weightings for each section you don't have to give the individual breakdown but

[0:59:03] Voice 2: but you will have to state for capabilities,

[0:59:04] Voice 2: it's going to be worth maybe 40 points overall approach is going to be worth

[0:59:08] Voice 2: this and price is worth that. But the,

[0:59:11] Voice 2: but the breakdown of terms of how much we're going to give them for providing

[0:59:15] Voice 2: three references, their, their project examples,

[0:59:19] Voice 2: all that doesn't get disclosed in the document.

[0:59:23] Voice 2: That can, that just has to be finalized before the RFP closes.

[0:59:28] Trustee Middleton: Okay. Okay. So we, but we do need to identify the elements.

[0:59:31] Trustee Middleton: the

[0:59:32] Voice 2: element yeah the the main elements and and the overall scores for those okay

[0:59:37] Trustee Middleton: so assuming that we

[0:59:39] Trustee Middleton: we um come to some agreement very soon um would you anticipate turning that document around and

[0:59:49] Trustee Middleton: then posting it to bcbid or what would your normal process be there

[0:59:52] Voice 2: yeah i mean once uh i hear from

[0:59:55] Voice 2: from from you that we're we're good this is the final version everybody's happy

[1:00:00] Voice 2: uh i could get it posted to bc bid uh usually within a day i could get it done okay

[1:00:05] Trustee Middleton: okay so

[1:00:07] Trustee Middleton: we i think we will need to rely on and you're just sort of making sure that our our um

[1:00:13] Trustee Middleton: criteria add up and make sense and their mode of presentation is acceptable

[1:00:18] Trustee Middleton: but beyond that i think we now just simply need to agree amongst each other what

[1:00:23] Trustee Middleton: what criteria it is we're putting forward i guess in the document so

[1:00:27] Voice 2: yeah

[1:00:27] Trustee Middleton: um may we turn so i mean you're welcome to to continue to attend julia but i think you've

[1:00:37] Trustee Middleton: answered all the questions we we may have and now it's up to us to sort of thresh out

[1:00:42] Trustee Middleton: what who it is we're looking for and what is we're looking for out of this document um so i i would

[1:00:50] Trustee Middleton: um i mean what's everyone's pleasure i guess i should put it that way do you want to know and

[1:00:55] Trustee Middleton: turn internally and kind of hash this out with each other um or would you prefer to if julia

[1:01:01] Trustee Middleton: can kindly stay with us for a bit more provider expertise as we go forward um

[1:01:08] Voice 6: well if julia is

[1:01:10] Voice 6: so generous with her time what uh julia why would we not take advantage but i would

[1:01:16] Voice 6: very much like

[1:01:17] Voice 6: to thrash this out get this done and get it published i can't be

[1:01:23] Voice 6: more blunt than that

[1:01:25] Voice 6: yeah yeah i'm

[1:01:27] Voice 2: happy to stay okay

[1:01:29] Voice 6: i'm notoriously not blunt by the way i am the equally other

[1:01:32] Voice 6: friendly uh trustee and counselor just for the record it isn't all paul you know well if we

[1:01:40] Trustee Middleton: could shift then to where this the rubber hits the road in some ways it's a high level but some

[1:01:46] Trustee Middleton: point two is the weighted criteria by which the proposal will be judged so um capabilities is the

[1:01:54] Trustee Middleton: capabilities of the firm if i'm if i'm not misreading uh previously outlined in that or

[1:02:00] Trustee Middleton: we previously asked for in section 5.1 approach is the methodology which we've said we're going to be

[1:02:06] Trustee Middleton: almost entirely non-prescriptive with other than what we talked about in section four which is the

[1:02:12] Trustee Middleton: expectation of interviews of key staff and all trustees and then price is simply simply that um

[1:02:21] Trustee Middleton: So any comments at this point?

[1:02:24] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Brent, you have your hand raised.

[1:02:27] Voice 4: Yeah, the only comment I have is it might be appropriate

[1:02:32] Voice 4: that the weights actually add up to 100

[1:02:35] Voice 4: because right now they add up to 110.

[1:02:41] Voice 4: You know, I've been on the Financial Planning Committee

[1:02:43] Voice 4: for over nine years now,

[1:02:46] Voice 4: and there always seems to be that struggle at the trust with numbers.

[1:02:53] Voice 4: okay

[1:02:57] Voice 4: i'd like to see price be at 20 20 percent you've had your fun

[1:03:04] Trustee Middleton: and what what about could i suggest that we add in it's in a sense it's a test of

[1:03:10] Trustee Middleton: their research capabilities um a demonstrated i won't say familiarity but um um described

[1:03:20] Trustee Middleton: knowledge of the trust and its founding legislation per the co's comments and uh

[1:03:26] Trustee Middleton: sure

[1:03:27] Voice 4: let's make that let's make that five percent because i think it's it's pretty much a uh

[1:03:33] Voice 4: a must do i mean that's kind of like legwork for so for anyone that's responding to this

[1:03:39] Voice 4: they're going to do that legwork or they're not really on on on yeah like it's a must do

[1:03:46] Voice 4: so it's it's yeah sorry it's so simple it's well

[1:03:53] Trustee Middleton: we'll find out i guess but

[1:03:54] Trustee Middleton: um any other points about criteria uh that we want to see um keep in mind is the the points

[1:04:05] Trustee Middleton: made for section four which will now incorporate and five we've largely left open um um any did

[1:04:16] Trustee Middleton: Did you have your hand up, Trustee Morrison, or Trustee Luckin, please?

[1:04:25] Trustee Middleton: Oh, Peter muted.

[1:04:29] Trustee Luckham: That's okay.

[1:04:30] Trustee Luckham: I think I maybe answered my own question here.

[1:04:33] Trustee Luckham: That under capabilities is relevant experience, and I can't help but wonder whether or not that shouldn't be in some fashion weighted in its own way.

[1:04:50] Trustee Luckham: within the capabilities section or as an independent item but certainly I think

[1:04:57] Trustee Luckham: that the relevant experience of the applicant or the proponent is also

[1:05:03] Trustee Luckham: pertinent

[1:05:03] Trustee Middleton: that's a good point I think Julia correct me if I'm wrong you said

[1:05:08] Trustee Middleton: that the actual analysis of the subsections is done in the evaluation

[1:05:15] Trustee Middleton: manual and so

[1:05:16] Trustee Middleton: indeed that's it at that point we obviously will be looking to

[1:05:20] Trustee Middleton: separate out the uh the um uh the the similar projects as as a separate item making up that 40

[1:05:29] Trustee Middleton: yes that's correct

[1:05:31] Trustee Luckham: therefore the evaluation manual is where it

[1:05:35] Trustee Middleton: it's in our heads guided by julia at

[1:05:39] Trustee Middleton: this point it's it's so it's a document that uh is created once i mean i guess doesn't have to be but

[1:05:45] Trustee Middleton: But generally, once the proposal goes to bid, it's the matrix that is used to judge the responses in as objective a fashion as possible by the procurement team,

[1:05:59] Trustee Middleton: which I think you said, Julia, would be between three to five people, one of whom would be yourself, one of whom I'm assuming would be our CEO.

[1:06:07] Trustee Middleton: And beyond that, we haven't really talked about it.

[1:06:11] Trustee Middleton: So correct me if I'm wrong there, Julie.

[1:06:15] Trustee Middleton: I'm just paraphrasing what I thought I heard.

[1:06:18] Voice 2: Yeah, I mean, we have a template evaluation handbook

[1:06:22] Voice 2: and then the form that each evaluator will fill out,

[1:06:25] Voice 2: which I could email that over to you, Lee,

[1:06:28] Voice 2: if you want to share the group to see what it looks like.

[1:06:31] Voice 2: And then obviously, I mean, the handbook just sort of goes over the rules

[1:06:34] Voice 2: of how to evaluate, like what you should be doing and shouldn't be doing.

[1:06:38] Voice 2: And then the form will be determined.

[1:06:41] Voice 2: like I said, you'd have the capabilities approach, price, all listed, and then the subsections are

[1:06:47] Voice 2: on there. And that's where, you know, under the 40 points of capabilities of having good relevant

[1:06:53] Voice 2: experience is really important, then I would say, let's make sure that's worth 20 of the points,

[1:06:58] Voice 2: or whatever the committee decides that that would be determined. And that doesn't have to be

[1:07:02] Voice 2: finalized until before the RFP closes. So we would have some time to work on that piece.

[1:07:09] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Julie. Do you have your hand up, Presti Brent?

[1:07:14] Voice 4: No, I don't. I was just kind of saying, yes, that is absolutely correct.

[1:07:22] Voice 4: And that is certainly my understanding from having been involved, our company having been involved in a great number of these. Thanks.

[1:07:32] Trustee Middleton: And thank you for being on the journey with us, Julia. It's very, very, very helpful.

[1:07:37] Trustee Middleton: Wonderful. I'm thinking at this point, any additional comments or things that are a red flag to anyone if we were to proceed or just right before we take the next step here, any words, which is my gauge of, yes, Chair Lechel.

[1:08:03] Trustee Middleton: Well,

[1:08:06] Trustee Luckham: we had a little bit of an interesting points of view, I guess, expressed there earlier.

[1:08:14] Trustee Luckham: And I am concerned about dismissing the uniqueness of the Islands Trust.

[1:08:24] Trustee Luckham: I myself have been criticized in the past.

[1:08:27] Trustee Luckham: I'm thinking about trust councils here, interests here.

[1:08:31] Trustee Luckham: I have been criticized myself in the past for thinking that what we do is just a business and that we should prescribe standard business practices to doing things.

[1:08:41] Trustee Luckham: And that may or may not be a relevant comment.

[1:08:43] Trustee Luckham: And maybe I've been unjustly criticized for that because there is a sense that there is a level of uniqueness.

[1:08:50] Trustee Luckham: And so that said, I picked up from Trustee Critchley, and perhaps there might be some clarity there, that he had perhaps said, and maybe I misheard, that local government experience wasn't necessarily something that would be that important.

[1:09:09] Trustee Luckham: And certainly, I would think that local government experience would be of significant importance because that is the essence of what is different from a business.

[1:09:22] Trustee Luckham: All right. Still struggling with that question.

[1:09:27] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Trustee Morrison.

[1:09:30] Trustee Middleton: Sorry, was that you speaking, Trustee Fitchley?

[1:09:38] Trustee Middleton: Please go ahead.

[1:09:39] Trustee Critchley: I just wanted to respond quickly to that.

[1:09:41] Trustee Middleton: Yeah.

[1:09:43] Trustee Critchley: Thanks, because that's completely the opposite of what I intended in my remarks.

[1:09:48] Trustee Critchley: I was saying, don't let's get overly focused on experience with the islands.

[1:09:53] Trustee Critchley: trust because we are such a small body and you know shockingly my experience has been with many

[1:10:00] Trustee Critchley: many government people who i thought would know better knew some of them didn't even know the

[1:10:07] Trustee Critchley: existence of the islands trust and if they knew it then they knew very little about it so that's

[1:10:12] Trustee Critchley: why i'm saying that shouldn't be an automatic disqualifier but i did say then that experience

[1:10:20] Trustee Critchley: with local government is important.

[1:10:24] Trustee Critchley: That was my substitute position for that.

[1:10:26] Trustee Critchley: Thank you.

[1:10:27] Trustee Middleton: Okay.

[1:10:28] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Morrison, then Trustee Brent, please.

[1:10:32] Voice 12: Thank you.

[1:10:33] Voice 12: I'd like to echo that, that I do think,

[1:10:37] Voice 12: regardless of what other experience they have,

[1:10:39] Voice 12: I think some experience with this type of review

[1:10:42] Voice 12: in a local government context is actually important

[1:10:45] Voice 12: because we have, while I agree with Trustee Critchley

[1:10:49] Voice 12: that it's pretty hard to ask them to have experience with the islands trust specifically

[1:10:52] Voice 12: because it is so small relatively i think the the way in which the trust act sort of works with the

[1:11:02] Voice 12: local government act is not to be understated in its complexity and and having some experience with

[1:11:09] Voice 12: the understanding of the local government act would be pretty critical from my perspective

[1:11:14] Voice 12: to being able to understand how the trust is functioning

[1:11:17] Voice 12: because it's at least one big step

[1:11:19] Voice 12: towards something that they wouldn't have to learn

[1:11:21] Voice 12: and spend our money learning.

[1:11:23] Voice 12: So I would want that,

[1:11:26] Voice 12: some kind of experience with local government.

[1:11:29] Voice 12: Okay.

[1:11:30] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Trustee Morrison.

[1:11:31] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Brent?

[1:11:34] Voice 4: So, yeah, I would echo that.

[1:11:37] Voice 4: But, you know, we want people

[1:11:40] Voice 4: that have experience with organization.

[1:11:43] Voice 4: And so let's not conflate organization

[1:11:45] Voice 4: organization with business, okay? So, you know, someone like me, I've got a graduate degree

[1:11:54] Voice 4: in administrative studies. It's the study of administrations. It's not business. It's not

[1:12:02] Voice 4: necessarily tagged as government. It's just process. And so, of course, local government

[1:12:09] Voice 4: experience in this case will be important. Some experience with how local governments deal with

[1:12:18] Voice 4: environment will be important. And so these will be all gauges. But I'm not sure where business

[1:12:25] Voice 4: came into this. It's all about organization and how organizations work, how organizations have

[1:12:33] Voice 4: effective processes and so local governments are organizations so if you're exposed to local

[1:12:41] Voice 4: governments or regional governments those are all good things thank you thank

[1:12:47] Trustee Middleton: you trustee brent um

[1:12:50] Trustee Middleton: what looking at time and i'm thinking that we've hashed this out uh you know i know there's some

[1:12:56] Trustee Middleton: trepidation about the familiar familiarity with the trust and the the the criteria that the uh

[1:13:02] Trustee Middleton: the consultant must meet but i guess what i would propose and maybe entertain a motion of is

[1:13:07] Trustee Middleton: we update the text uh distribute it to the committee um have a window for for comments

[1:13:16] Trustee Middleton: um and i ideally i'd like to see that comment be focused between um

[1:13:24] Trustee Middleton: i don't think we want to get into a track changes it's not a text issue at this point it's really

[1:13:31] Trustee Middleton: are uh the nature of the criteria by which we're reviewing if anybody wants to add anything or

[1:13:38] Trustee Middleton: clarify that those comments be made in in writing maybe outside the document um and that if we're

[1:13:46] Trustee Middleton: sort of roughly on the uh you know roughly able to amalgamate that we then send those to julia

[1:13:52] Trustee Middleton: and we are let her do her work and then post the document um yes CEO Austin Peller I don't think

[1:14:03] Voice 8: we can ask Julia to do any of Island's Trust work I think you can um you can't have two competing

[1:14:10] Voice 8: thoughts go to Julia and having her make a decision between those two concepts so if everything's just

[1:14:16] Voice 8: a refinement um I think you can otherwise you'll you'll have to go through some process of figuring

[1:14:22] Voice 8: out what what approach and then Julia could accommodate

[1:14:26] Trustee Middleton: it sure you know I

[1:14:28] Trustee Middleton: appreciate that clarification I guess we would use the same as we've used to this

[1:14:32] Trustee Middleton: point which would be send them to me I'll for instance I'll make the edits in

[1:14:36] Trustee Middleton: section four excellent I don't see a lot in the criteria to change I mean I do

[1:14:43] Trustee Middleton: understand the trepidation and I and I know I'm not seeking to ram this through

[1:14:47] Trustee Middleton: because I know there'll be opportunity to weigh in on this and refine and and

[1:14:51] Trustee Middleton: and adjust as we move forwards.

[1:14:54] Trustee Middleton: But I think as near enough matters,

[1:14:59] Trustee Middleton: we're pretty close to a final text for Julia to work with.

[1:15:06] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Luckin, you had your hand up.

[1:15:09] Trustee Middleton: Oh, muted again, Peter.

[1:15:12] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Chair Middleton.

[1:15:14] Trustee Luckham: I agree with you and in support of what you just said

[1:15:18] Trustee Luckham: and that I would look forward

[1:15:20] Trustee Luckham: to seeing a final version of it.

[1:15:23] Trustee Luckham: There are certainly some wording and grammatical issues contained throughout, and I'm not going to tell you about those.

[1:15:30] Trustee Luckham: I think it just needs a close eye when it gets to the final revision.

[1:15:34] Trustee Luckham: There's one other thing that popped out at me is when we talked about the ministry, it also talks quite often about the province.

[1:15:42] Trustee Luckham: And again, those occurrences of province should be replaced with the Alamstras.

[1:15:46] Trustee Luckham: There's one important point here, which I think is worthy of conversation here.

[1:15:52] Trustee Luckham: under 5.1.1 relevant experience. It says a five years experience working with public or

[1:15:59] Trustee Luckham: private organizations. And I will highlight for Trustee Brent's benefit there that indeed

[1:16:06] Trustee Luckham: organizations is the words that's used there. And there's a bit of a descriptor that are governed

[1:16:11] Trustee Luckham: by a board or council. But I would think that, and it's up to the committee to decide, that rather

[1:16:17] Trustee Luckham: than public or private i would like to see the relevant experience be public and private because

[1:16:24] Trustee Luckham: i think that there is a distinction between a private organization and a public organization

[1:16:30] Trustee Luckham: which is what we are and so uh but i want to draw on that private uh organization experience

[1:16:38] Trustee Luckham: to help uh uh uh inform us on um on the work that we do so i just suggest that that word or be

[1:16:46] Trustee Luckham: changed to and but um other than that that's all and so it's up to the committee of course to

[1:16:51] Trustee Luckham: determine whether or not that seems appropriate to them thank

[1:16:54] Trustee Middleton: you trustee welcome and uh uh trustee

[1:16:57] Trustee Middleton: yeah i

[1:16:58] Voice 13: just wanted to get one point of clarity on that using the term and you mean five years

[1:17:04] Voice 13: with government and five years with private a total or is it just a sum total of five years

[1:17:11] Voice 13: with the

[1:17:12] Voice 13: combination yeah just to clarify that yeah

[1:17:15] Trustee Luckham: but very good point um

[1:17:18] Trustee Middleton: any any comments on

[1:17:20] Trustee Middleton: on that before we uh otherwise i would view that we would accept that addition or that

[1:17:26] Trustee Middleton: clarification by our chair or by uh the council chair um seeing no hands okay um so i think um

[1:17:40] Trustee Middleton: What I'd like to do is then entertain a motion that we accept the wording as amended, you

[1:17:51] Trustee Middleton: can't see the amendments, so it might be that the motion better be amend motion per input

[1:17:58] Trustee Middleton: of committee, circulate for approval, and then forward to Julia Crosby with procurement

[1:18:06] Trustee Middleton: procurement for um um for posting um I'll second that okay I wasn't intending that necessarily to

[1:18:16] Trustee Middleton: be a motion but just generally describing what it's before it's seconded yes it's

[1:18:22] Voice 4: second it's

[1:18:23] Voice 4: seconded uh

[1:18:27] Trustee Middleton: okay well yeah I think that I'll entertain a point of order from from uh uh trustee

[1:18:35] Trustee Middleton: that yes sir please go ahead well

[1:18:37] Trustee Luckham: i if it's seconded i would like to hear the motion um and

[1:18:41] Trustee Luckham: i'd like to see it um but we can be as prescriptive or as relaxed as we like i suppose however i think

[1:18:47] Trustee Luckham: that really the intention here is that the that if there's a motion required even that the chair be

[1:18:53] Trustee Luckham: uh uh the chair take uh amend the document as discussed and uh return it to this committee

[1:19:01] Trustee Luckham: It's as simple as that, in my mind.

[1:19:07] Trustee Luckham: It's up to the committee.

[1:19:10] Voice 15: Well, I would speak or request a friendly amendment

[1:19:14] Voice 15: and I put a deadline on this motion actually

[1:19:17] Voice 15: that it would be referred by a specific date,

[1:19:21] Voice 15: perhaps even March 5th by week's end or something

[1:19:23] Voice 15: because the longer we drag this out,

[1:19:25] Voice 15: we've been dragging-

[1:19:26] Trustee Luckham: Well, for our next meeting.

[1:19:27] Voice 15: Hmm?

[1:19:28] Trustee Luckham: No, March 5th.

[1:19:31] Voice 4: We've been asked to move this along by the CAO.

[1:19:34] Voice 4: that's exactly what we're doing so

[1:19:37] Voice 12: point of order sorry i'm so lost because what i did not hear a

[1:19:41] Voice 12: clear motion on the table and i would love to be able to like say something but i just need a really

[1:19:45] Voice 12: clear motion on the table yeah

[1:19:46] Trustee Middleton: fair enough there wasn't a really clear motion no that's a fair

[1:19:50] Trustee Middleton: comment um so what we're after doing building on uh trust uh trustee luckham's motion is uh the

[1:19:59] Trustee Middleton: The chair will amend the document as discussed by the committee, circulate to the committee

[1:20:05] Trustee Middleton: once amended, and upon committee approval, distribute to Julia Crosby with Procurement

[1:20:12] Trustee Middleton: Bench for posting to BCBID.

[1:20:15] Trustee Middleton: That would be the motion.

[1:20:20] Trustee Luckham: How are you proposing that this committee make a decision outside of a meeting?

[1:20:27] Trustee Luckham: are you suggesting this be an rwm without discussion um that seems a little difficult

[1:20:36] Trustee Middleton: yeah fair enough no we obviously we have a decision to make here about the the nature of

[1:20:41] Trustee Middleton: the approval um um we'll view the um the motion as as made uh and seconded so that we can have

[1:20:56] Trustee Middleton: have discussion basically because your point there trustee Luckum is a good one

[1:21:00] Trustee Middleton: and trustee Morrison all

[1:21:09] Voice 12: right so I would I'm gonna speak in opposition to

[1:21:14] Voice 12: this motion but I will speak in favor of the first two-thirds of it so because I

[1:21:20] Voice 12: think we need to get to the approval stage before we circulate it back out

[1:21:23] Voice 12: with with Julia so I would rather vote this down and then just take the first

[1:21:28] Voice 12: two-thirds of it up to approval

[1:21:31] Trustee Middleton: um any other comments nothing

[1:21:38] Voice 12: personal julia i just want

[1:21:39] Voice 12: to make a good use of your time that's so of course

[1:21:45] Voice 6: it seems that we're actually kind of all in kind of agreement with and i so we don't get

[1:21:52] Voice 6: too snagged up in the movement because if we take what uh what bev has just suggested and um

[1:22:00] Voice 6: circulate for approval would it be fair to say then once once approved forward

[1:22:07] Voice 6: to julia for review um

[1:22:10] Trustee Middleton: it would as trustee luckham points out that that would have to

[1:22:14] Trustee Middleton: be done by an rwm because of the public process requirement um and so the alternative would be

[1:22:21] Trustee Middleton: to actually um approve for for disbursement to julia at the start of our next meeting

[1:22:28] Trustee Middleton: in absence of a meeting so uh trustee luckham please yeah uh

[1:22:33] Trustee Luckham: well you've essentially said it

[1:22:35] Trustee Luckham: there is that um i think that uh an amendment may be uh easier to handle than voting against

[1:22:43] Trustee Luckham: this motion an amendment to the motion to have that document brought to the next meeting for

[1:22:48] Trustee Luckham: approval um and then there would be the opportunity to clarify any uh minor points

[1:22:55] Trustee Luckham: I will move that the motion be amended and read that the chair will amend the document

[1:23:03] Trustee Luckham: as per the input of the committee and return it to the next meeting for approval.

[1:23:10] Trustee Luckham: And if there's a seconder, that would be wonderful.

[1:23:22] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Morrison.

[1:23:25] Trustee Middleton: So discussion.

[1:23:27] Trustee Middleton: Any discussion on that?

[1:23:33] Voice 12: Maybe can I just try one?

[1:23:35] Voice 12: Oh, go ahead, Steve.

[1:23:35] Voice 12: Steve.

[1:23:37] Voice 15: We've been going over so many little word changes

[1:23:42] Voice 15: for the last two months.

[1:23:45] Voice 15: And my sense is that we're just getting dragged down a road

[1:23:50] Voice 15: whether we're willing to be dragged or not.

[1:23:53] Voice 15: And so I'm going to speak against this particular motion

[1:23:57] Voice 15: simply because I think that waiting another two weeks,

[1:24:02] Voice 15: which presses it past council,

[1:24:04] Voice 15: and we have really nothing to report council as a result.

[1:24:10] Voice 15: We have our instructions for council.

[1:24:13] Voice 15: We have been told by the CAO that we,

[1:24:17] Voice 15: his advice is to proceed quickly.

[1:24:18] Voice 15: And I think we're just getting pushed off the schedule.

[1:24:24] Voice 15: And so I would, I can't support it.

[1:24:26] Voice 15: I just, I think if an RWM is required,

[1:24:29] Voice 15: than we do in RWM and get it off to BCBID, thanks.

[1:24:37] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Trustee Brent.

[1:24:41] Voice 4: I'm also in favor of an RWM.

[1:24:43] Voice 4: I mean, how long do we have to discuss this?

[1:24:47] Voice 4: We discussed it at this meeting and it's time to move on.

[1:24:51] Voice 4: I mean, seriously, we've been given instructions,

[1:24:55] Voice 4: we've been told, we've been dragging ourselves,

[1:24:58] Voice 4: so we're not professional.

[1:24:59] Voice 4: It's time that we move this forward

[1:25:01] Voice 4: as we've been instructed to thank

[1:25:05] Trustee Middleton: you I mean as a somewhat you know observing

[1:25:09] Trustee Middleton: the process here I think we're very very close and I actually can see the

[1:25:12] Trustee Middleton: frustration is with waiting for an additional meeting at which we wouldn't

[1:25:17] Trustee Middleton: have all that much business to be perfectly honest so I would entertain I

[1:25:23] Trustee Middleton: guess as the original mover I think I'm the original move sure at this point an

[1:25:29] Trustee Middleton: amendment that actually um asked uh provided approval by the committee through rwm yeah

[1:25:41] Trustee Middleton: and so i'm

[1:25:42] Voice 13: in favor favor favor um

[1:25:47] Trustee Middleton: chair

[1:25:49] Voice 8: i think you have some do

[1:25:50] Trustee Middleton: you have some

[1:25:50] Voice 8: motions on the

[1:25:51] Voice 8: floor you'd have to defeat yeah

[1:25:52] Trustee Middleton: we've got we've got quite a few here i think um i think so i think

[1:25:58] Trustee Middleton: I think we do have a chain of amendment that holds but maybe Laurie can say if

[1:26:05] Trustee Middleton: we do or don't I see you've because what I have is that the chairman the document

[1:26:10] Trustee Middleton: as the input of the committee circulate and what was previously stated was and

[1:26:23] Trustee Middleton: upon our approval return that's not that's not on the screen okay

[1:26:28] Voice 8: yeah well

[1:26:30] Voice 8: I

[1:26:30] Trustee Luckham: think what everyone's working on this

[1:26:31] Voice 8: I

[1:26:33] Trustee Luckham: might suggest and I don't have any

[1:26:36] Trustee Luckham: objection it's at the risk of the committee that it failed because there's

[1:26:42] Trustee Luckham: a discussion necessary but that's fine I would suggest a further amendment and I

[1:26:46] Trustee Luckham: this I realize this is complex but it's not inappropriate that the amendment to

[1:26:51] Trustee Luckham: the motion be a further amended um to read that and uh be returned to the committee for decision

[1:26:59] Trustee Luckham: by rwm

[1:27:01] Voice 15: excellent and could i could i uh ask whether a friendly amendment would include a

[1:27:08] Voice 15: deadline i

[1:27:10] Trustee Middleton: think it would so can i

[1:27:14] Voice 15: can i suggest that that friendly amendment be by march the 5th

[1:27:22] Voice 4: I'll I'll second that friendly amendment I need to of course I

[1:27:28] Trustee Luckham: don't think we need to second that

[1:27:30] Trustee Luckham: let's just do that any

[1:27:32] Trustee Middleton: for any thank you for bearing with us there and helping us on that

[1:27:36] Trustee Middleton: uh uh Chelsea Luckham that that was excellent and Laurie um I do think we have a motion with

[1:27:42] Trustee Middleton: two amendments can we vote on the entire package would that be appropriate one

[1:27:47] Trustee Luckham: amendment at a time

[1:27:48] Trustee Luckham: okay

[1:27:48] Trustee Middleton: so I'm gonna call the vote on the original motion that is on the screen

[1:27:54] Trustee Middleton: kindly so it's

[1:27:55] Voice 7: the amending motion

[1:27:55] Trustee Middleton: and can I just

[1:27:57] Voice 7: have clarification on this

[1:27:59] Voice 7: piece here what does it adhere to the first motion this

[1:28:04] Trustee Luckham: piece know that that

[1:28:06] Trustee Luckham: applies to the amendment to thank you thank you

[1:28:09] Trustee Luckham: chair Middleton you need to

[1:28:11] Trustee Luckham: call for the vote on the amendment to the amendment of the motion i'm sorry

[1:28:19] Trustee Luckham: all right

[1:28:19] Voice 15: you can keep track of all that

[1:28:22] Trustee Middleton: yes well done no i call for the vote on the amendment

[1:28:27] Trustee Middleton: to the amendment of the original motion in favor in favor

[1:28:32] Trustee Middleton: on favor that passes

[1:28:34] Trustee Middleton: so no no further work needs to be done to arrive at that motion then where

[1:28:40] Trustee Middleton: that's what we need

[1:28:41] Trustee Luckham: now you need to vote on the amendment to the motion all right

[1:28:47] Trustee Middleton: so now we are I'm asking for those in favor of the amendment can

[1:28:51] Voice 12: I just read

[1:28:54] Voice 12: out loud what is the amendment to the motion that we're doing so sorry I'm

[1:28:59] Voice 12: just like so this

[1:29:04] Trustee Middleton: is now we can give you the amended motion which is so maybe

[1:29:12] Voice 12: So

[1:29:13] Trustee Luckham: the motion then as currently the amendment reads that the chair will amend the document

[1:29:20] Trustee Luckham: as per the input of the committee and return to the next meeting for committee approval

[1:29:26] Trustee Luckham: and be returned to the oh my gosh that's not right.

[1:29:29] Trustee Middleton: So we have to adjust that yeah thank

[1:29:31] Trustee Luckham: you for calling that yeah

[1:29:32] Trustee Middleton: yeah there was um the amendment

[1:29:36] Trustee Middleton: basically yeah you got it there yeah.

[1:29:41] Trustee Middleton: yeah

[1:29:42] Trustee Luckham: and so that this is now an amendment to the original motion and that amendment is that the

[1:29:48] Trustee Luckham: chair will amend the document as per the input of the committee and be and that it be returned to

[1:29:54] Trustee Luckham: the committee by rwm by march the 5th and so that's amending the

[1:29:58] Trustee Luckham: original motion and then

[1:30:00] Trustee Luckham: vote on the motion as amended all

[1:30:02] Trustee Middleton: right so I'm look I'm looking for a vote on

[1:30:06] Trustee Middleton: the a lot amended motion which is the chair will amend the document as pretty

[1:30:11] Trustee Middleton: for the amendment

[1:30:12] Trustee Luckham: to the motion okay

[1:30:16] Trustee Middleton: how it okay because we didn't actually pass

[1:30:19] Trustee Middleton: the first time I got you understand one

[1:30:22] Voice 12: other thing before we call the vote did

[1:30:25] Voice 12: case want to talk to it yeah

[1:30:27] Voice 13: I did it says and be returned to the committee by

[1:30:31] Voice 13: By RWM. What does that mean? Approved? By approval through RWM.

[1:30:39] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, thank you. We lost that somewhere along the way.

[1:30:45] Trustee Luckham: For approval

[1:30:46] Voice 13: by RWM, yeah.

[1:30:49] Voice 13: Yes, thank you for that, Case.

[1:30:52] Trustee Middleton: Approval by RWM.

[1:30:54] Trustee Middleton: Now, and without risk of further complicating matters, is the then intent to circulate to Julia for posting, not just review, for posting to BCBID also need to be amended or added to the

[1:31:11] Trustee Middleton: amendment? And if so...

[1:31:13] Voice 15: No, we can make that a separate motion after the amendment.

[1:31:17] Voice 15: Okay.

[1:31:18] Trustee Middleton: All right. I take that guidance. So, on the amendment to the amended motion, those in favor?

[1:31:27] Voice 3: Aye.

[1:31:29] Trustee Middleton: Any opposed?

[1:31:31] Trustee Middleton: Aye.

[1:31:32] Trustee Middleton: Okay. Thank you for bearing with me through that. I'm now looking for a motion

[1:31:39] Trustee Middleton: to basically distribute the approved RFP to Julia Crosby for posting to BC Bid.

[1:31:48] Trustee Middleton: but

[1:31:48] Trustee Luckham: before you get there lee you have one more motion to approve the motion as amended period

[1:31:55] Trustee Luckham: oh

[1:31:55] Trustee Middleton: goodness okay um all right i will now look for uh yeah vote please on approving the motion

[1:32:10] Trustee Middleton: as amended okay

[1:32:12] Voice 3: approved all

[1:32:14] Trustee Middleton: right in favor that's carried great so now uh uh the final motion please

[1:32:19] Trustee Middleton: I'm if someone would care to make that in a clean and succinct manner I

[1:32:27] Voice 15: move

[1:32:28] Voice 15: that we approve the RFP template as amended and forward to BC bed for

[1:32:33] Voice 15: procurement on March the 8th all

[1:32:39] Voice 4: second that's

[1:32:43] Trustee Middleton: not right yeah so I think the

[1:32:49] Trustee Middleton: motion would have to be upon um approval by the committee the rfp is forwarded to so if somebody

[1:32:59] Trustee Middleton: wants to make that motion please i can but no i will

[1:33:05] Voice 11: jump in okay

[1:33:08] Trustee Middleton: trustee morrison go for it

[1:33:09] Voice 11: so i actually don't think that's an appropriate motion to make in this moment i think it's part

[1:33:14] Voice 11: of the rwm so like when the the um report gets circulated and we for approval then it also says

[1:33:23] Voice 11: in that motion at the time that the approval of this motion will mean that it gets circulated to

[1:33:31] Voice 11: bcbiz like that is part of what the rwm will say yeah

[1:33:36] Trustee Luckham: the mover of the rwm or the call for the rwm

[1:33:40] Trustee Luckham: will make that specific.

[1:33:41] Voice 11: We'll say this is a cue

[1:33:42] Voice 11: and circulate it out to Julia.

[1:33:45] Voice 11: Okay.

[1:33:45] Trustee Middleton: Okay.

[1:33:46] Trustee Middleton: So I'm assuming that once the document is complete,

[1:33:51] Trustee Middleton: I would make that motion via RWM.

[1:33:54] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, that

[1:33:54] Voice 11: would be great.

[1:33:55] Trustee Middleton: All right.

[1:33:56] Trustee Middleton: Awesome.

[1:33:56] Trustee Middleton: Wow.

[1:33:57] Voice 11: Perfect.

[1:33:58] Trustee Middleton: Thank you very much.

[1:33:59] Voice 11: Have fun, Dave.

[1:34:03] Trustee Middleton: All right.

[1:34:05] Trustee Middleton: Well, you see, this is when you don't pre-plan your outcome.

[1:34:08] Trustee Middleton: It's good, right?

[1:34:09] Trustee Middleton: It shows, you know.

[1:34:11] Trustee Luckham: well and probably

[1:34:12] Trustee Luckham: julia's going what's an rwm because i don't know that many other

[1:34:17] Trustee Luckham: governments have that ability and there therein lies the uniqueness yeah

[1:34:23] Trustee Middleton: well fair point what

[1:34:24] Voice 11: does that stand

[1:34:25] Voice 11: for request without meeting or resolution without meeting oh okay thank you by

[1:34:31] Voice 6: the way for that i

[1:34:32] Voice 6: was embarrassed to ask personally but i appreciate it and i'm going

[1:34:37] Voice 6: Don't admit that I'm embarrassed to ask.

[1:34:39] Trustee Middleton: I think, Trustee Langegris and Trustee Brent,

[1:34:43] Trustee Middleton: do you have your hands up still?

[1:34:44] Trustee Middleton: Or is that from prior?

[1:34:47] Trustee Middleton: I think at this point, I would thank very much

[1:34:50] Trustee Middleton: for the attendance and the time you've given us, Julia.

[1:34:55] Trustee Middleton: And thank you for attending the meeting and supporting us.

[1:34:59] Trustee Middleton: So I appreciate you and we were talking.

[1:35:02] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[1:35:03] Trustee Middleton: you and then for the for the rest let me just check we're not missing any

[1:35:10] Trustee Middleton: business here for goodness sakes yeah so the next the currently the next meeting

[1:35:20] Trustee Middleton: is is scheduled for March 15th at 3 p.m. via zoom at this point a risk of

[1:35:29] Trustee Middleton: cutting off any any conversation oh we've got one

[1:35:33] Trustee Middleton: hand to it oh no are you

[1:35:35] Trustee Middleton: calling for a German or are you looking to

[1:35:37] Voice 4: speak? I'm calling for a German. I have a question.

[1:35:39] Trustee Middleton: Question. Yes, go ahead, please. Trustee Luckom.

[1:35:45] Trustee Luckham: Well, yeah, okay. I would prefer to defer to

[1:35:48] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Morrison. She may have the same question I have. Okay. So

[1:35:52] Voice 12: my question is pretty specific

[1:35:55] Voice 12: to me. So I have a conflict in the next meeting and I just wanted confirmation. Normally my seat

[1:36:02] Voice 12: is for the tpc chair is it like is it appropriate for the vice chair to sit in for me i assume it

[1:36:09] Voice 12: is because the vice chair sits in for the chair at different issues so i just wanted to check

[1:36:13] Voice 12: about how to handle that

[1:36:17] Trustee Middleton: um yeah i don't see any anybody have any any obvious objection to that

[1:36:25] Trustee Middleton: that seems to be a reasonable um procedural um matter russ

[1:36:30] Voice 12: do we have like policy that governs

[1:36:32] Voice 12: that kind of thing

[1:36:32] Voice 8: yeah i'm not sure this is a select committee as opposed to a standing

[1:36:38] Voice 8: committee i mean i don't want to drag us through all the all the minutiae of it but i would think

[1:36:43] Voice 8: that um there would be slightly less flexibility associated with that like how would you bring

[1:36:49] Voice 8: that person up to speed um in in in that means a select committee has a discrete task as opposed

[1:36:58] Voice 8: to managing a suite of issues over time that would be my first thing but i can go off and

[1:37:04] Voice 8: research that more fully if you wish no

[1:37:07] Trustee Critchley: i

[1:37:08] Voice 12: don't know that it matters i'll keep track of the agenda

[1:37:11] Voice 12: i'll be here for the first half hour but then i have a overlap okay

[1:37:14] Trustee Middleton: very good thank you trustee

[1:37:16] Trustee Middleton: morrison uh trustee luckham yeah

[1:37:18] Trustee Luckham: so my question as is sort of a normal practice um is the

[1:37:24] Trustee Luckham: committees actually review a report that they submit to council and there has been a request

[1:37:30] Trustee Luckham: to submit a report to council and we haven't uh made a decision on that and so again that might

[1:37:37] Trustee Luckham: be something that could be done by rwm but somebody needs to craft it

[1:37:41] Trustee Middleton: i apologize i i um

[1:37:44] Trustee Middleton: i wrote something given that deadline was i think three days after and then i neglected to send it

[1:37:50] Trustee Middleton: out to the committee so that's my error um it is very brief uh and and i just because i knew

[1:37:58] Trustee Middleton: i wasn't reviewing it with anyone i kept it it's just just the facts like it's short and just

[1:38:04] Trustee Middleton: focuses on that we would form we met um but now if anyone wants to look at it and says hey wait

[1:38:12] Trustee Middleton: a minute this is not correct i'd be happy to for us to you know do whatever we can do to uh

[1:38:20] Trustee Middleton: either amend, remove, or what have you, because that's my error. Trustee Brant.

[1:38:29] Voice 4: Well, we have an update now. So it's just as well that you didn't do much. So we have this

[1:38:36] Voice 4: meeting to report on as well. And

[1:38:39] Voice 4: then maybe something further before it comes to Trust

[1:38:41] Voice 4: Council. So I think it's appropriate that you might have a verbal update, as is often the case.

[1:38:50] Voice 4: um in in situations at trust council and i think it's probably more relevant than than in many

[1:38:57] Voice 4: cases where someone reads the report we've already uh spent time reading um at trust council thank

[1:39:05] Voice 4: you well

[1:39:08] Trustee Middleton: i'm happy to entertain that there'll be another report as a late submission to the to um

[1:39:14] Trustee Middleton: um the council package of course it's you know too late for inclusion the package now hence the line

[1:39:20] Trustee Middleton: of you know to almost two weeks um you know given the violation of protocol there i'm certainly

[1:39:28] Trustee Middleton: content that some something further be offered and distributed um i take the committee's pleasure on

[1:39:34] Trustee Middleton: that it's seeing possible yes please i

[1:39:40] Voice 8: think we might want to release julia for uh just a

[1:39:42] Voice 8: suggestion mr chair release

[1:39:44] Voice 8: julia for obligation um here and thank you very much i

[1:39:48] Trustee Middleton: apologize yes

[1:39:49] Trustee Middleton: Yes, thank you very much, Julia.

[1:39:50] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Julia.

[1:39:52] Trustee Middleton: Yes.

[1:39:52] Trustee Middleton: You're welcome.

[1:39:53] Voice 2: Okay, bye, everybody.

[1:39:54] Trustee Middleton: We'll talk again soon.

[1:39:55] Voice 2: Yes.

[1:39:55] Voice 2: Very much appreciate it.

[1:39:57] Voice 2: Of course, you're welcome.

[1:39:58] Voice 2: Bye.

[1:39:59] Trustee Middleton: Bye-bye.

[1:40:04] Trustee Middleton: Great.

[1:40:05] Trustee Middleton: Okay.

[1:40:07] Trustee Middleton: Well, she was incredibly tolerant of us.

[1:40:13] Trustee Middleton: That's very good.

[1:40:14] Trustee Middleton: So, yes, so back to the report.

[1:40:17] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Critchley, I see you've got your hand raised.

[1:40:21] Trustee Critchley: Thank you.

[1:40:21] Trustee Critchley: I just want to make a couple of comments.

[1:40:23] Trustee Critchley: Number one, the question about whether a substitute could appear for Trustee Morrison in the form of the Vice Chair of Trust Programs.

[1:40:32] Trustee Critchley: I don't think that's appropriate because this committee is appointed by Trust Council by named persons, not by the status or office of those persons.

[1:40:43] Trustee Critchley: So I don't think you can just do a substitutional movement that way.

[1:40:46] Trustee Critchley: um on the other question about the propriety of having any report to trust council be approved

[1:40:53] Trustee Critchley: first by this committee i don't think that's necessary unless we require it to be so i think

[1:41:00] Trustee Critchley: that the general practice would be that a chair is competent to give a report on behalf of a committee

[1:41:11] Trustee Critchley: and since those committee members will all be in attendance at that same meeting

[1:41:15] Trustee Critchley: They can always put their hand up and say, no, that's completely wrong.

[1:41:20] Trustee Critchley: Chair Middleton is completely misinformed and is leading you astray.

[1:41:26] Trustee Critchley: So I don't think that we need, you know, we need to get too formal about that.

[1:41:30] Trustee Critchley: He's the chair.

[1:41:31] Trustee Critchley: Surely he's got some responsibility in terms of communication.

[1:41:34] Trustee Critchley: That's my view.

[1:41:35] Trustee Critchley: Thank you.

[1:41:37] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[1:41:40] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Brent, do you have your hand up?

[1:41:41] Trustee Middleton: Or you've got your digital hand up, but okay.

[1:41:44] Voice 3: No, I just, sorry.

[1:41:46] Voice 3: I just agree totally with what Trustee Critchley has said.

[1:41:51] Voice 3: Thank you.

[1:41:52] Trustee Middleton: And Trustee Morrison, please.

[1:41:55] Voice 12: Oh yeah, I agree about the reporting piece

[1:41:58] Voice 12: with Trustee Critchley.

[1:42:00] Voice 12: I am actually, I think the only member of this committee

[1:42:03] Voice 12: that was appointed as position, not as person.

[1:42:06] Voice 12: So that's why I ask because I wasn't named as person.

[1:42:11] Voice 12: So I just wanted to make sure,

[1:42:13] Voice 12: But that's fine if it is, Chair, and I understand the comments that have been made.

[1:42:17] Voice 12: I think they're appropriate.

[1:42:19] Voice 12: Fair enough.

[1:42:20] Trustee Middleton: And Trustee Luckin, please.

[1:42:22] Trustee Luckham: I'd just say that I completely agree with Trustee Critchley, but I think what's important is that that conversation be had, that that's what this committee agrees upon.

[1:42:31] Trustee Luckham: Sure.

[1:42:34] Trustee Middleton: Thank you for that.

[1:42:38] Trustee Middleton: And any last comments or points before I ask for a motion to adjourn?

[1:42:44] Trustee Middleton: I

[1:42:46] Trustee Luckham: move we adjourn

[1:42:47] Voice 15: I'll second that

[1:42:49] Voice 15: way too quick on that Peter

[1:42:52] Trustee Middleton: well thank you everyone

[1:42:54] Trustee Middleton: appreciate it

[1:42:55] Voice 5: thank you Lee

[1:42:57] Voice 5: thank you chair

[1:42:59] Voice 5: you're

[1:42:59] Trustee Middleton: welcome my pleasure

[1:43:01] Trustee Middleton: we'll talk again okay bye bye

[1:43:03] Trustee Middleton: thank you