South Pender Island Local Trust Committee community information meeting, March 5, 2021

[0:00:05] Trustee Patrick: good morning just stand by a moment while the system activates okay trustees i think there's

[0:00:32] Trustee Patrick: still a few more people coming in here but i'm just going to give the system just a moment for

[0:00:37] Trustee Patrick: people to join the meeting all right looks ready are you ready to go trustees yes

[0:00:57] Voice 11: all right then

[0:00:59] Trustee Patrick: well good morning and uh thank you uh all for joining us uh today for this uh uh regular

[0:01:05] Trustee Patrick: meeting of the South Pender Island Local Trust Committee. This meeting is being

[0:01:10] Trustee Patrick: recorded and live-streamed. I want to begin today by acknowledging how

[0:01:14] Trustee Patrick: fortunate we are to be gathering today in locations all across the traditional

[0:01:19] Trustee Patrick: territories of the Coast Salish people and today my heart goes out to the

[0:01:23] Trustee Patrick: Cowichan Nation and other First Nations as they struggle with the

[0:01:28] Trustee Patrick: impacts of COVID-19. I'm Laura Patrick, I'm elected on Salt Spring Island and

[0:01:36] Trustee Patrick: and I'm the chair of this local trust committee.

[0:01:38] Trustee Patrick: I'm joined today by trustee Cameron Thorne

[0:01:41] Trustee Patrick: and trustee Steve Wright.

[0:01:43] Trustee Patrick: Together we make up your South Pender local trust committee.

[0:01:45] Trustee Patrick: This meeting is being conducted electronically

[0:01:48] Trustee Patrick: and it's being recorded as I mentioned.

[0:01:50] Trustee Patrick: And this meeting is an official forum

[0:01:52] Trustee Patrick: for your local trust committee to make decisions

[0:01:54] Trustee Patrick: about land use planning matters

[0:01:55] Trustee Patrick: and discuss relevant business.

[0:01:58] Trustee Patrick: I'd also like to add that this is a place of employment.

[0:02:02] Trustee Patrick: And despite the fact that many of our staff

[0:02:04] Trustee Patrick: may be coming from their own homes,

[0:02:05] Trustee Patrick: they have the safe risk they have the right to a safe and respectful workplace we're grateful for

[0:02:12] Trustee Patrick: this ability to be able to meet electronically trustees staff and the public don't have to

[0:02:16] Trustee Patrick: travel and we're honoring the the orders during the pandemic we appreciate your understanding

[0:02:22] Trustee Patrick: and assistance as this is an electronic format and sometimes we do have technical challenges

[0:02:27] Trustee Patrick: and we will work as quickly as we can to overcome them we have muted everyone's mics to ensure

[0:02:33] Trustee Patrick: there's no audio disruptions during the meeting and i'll review the town hall the community

[0:02:38] Trustee Patrick: information meetings and the public hearings in a few moments how you can participate in those

[0:02:43] Trustee Patrick: we have several staff members joining us today we have maple hung our office administrator and

[0:02:48] Trustee Patrick: making this meeting work smoothly thank you very much maple we have kathy gilbert is our minute

[0:02:53] Trustee Patrick: taker good morning kathy and we have robert kojima our regional planning manager and we have kim

[0:02:59] Trustee Patrick: Stockdale and Narissa Chadwell planners that are joining us today so thank you

[0:03:03] Trustee Patrick: all for for being here so before we get to go further we do have an agenda

[0:03:09] Trustee Patrick: before us are there any changes or additions that need to be made to the

[0:03:13] Trustee Patrick: agenda

[0:03:14] Voice 11: did

[0:03:16] Voice 15: you want to add the in-camera session yes

[0:03:20] Voice 11: please I think it's all I

[0:03:23] Voice 11: think it's on the agenda just said none and there's a there is going to be an

[0:03:29] Voice 11: agenda item on it

[0:03:30] Trustee Patrick: okay is

[0:03:31] Voice 11: that is that right so we don't we don't need a motion for that

[0:03:36] Trustee Patrick: um we'll just note that we now have a closed meeting it says none so that there will be okay

[0:03:43] Trustee Patrick: and and

[0:03:44] Planner Stockdill: chair packard i have two uh suggestions okay uh

[0:03:48] Planner Stockdill: one being 15.2 the alternative housing

[0:03:53] Planner Stockdill: project and planner Chadwick is leading that perhaps moving that before the short-term

[0:04:00] Planner Stockdill: vacation rental project just so she's not waiting around through the entire LTC meeting and another

[0:04:06] Planner Stockdill: suggestion is 18.2 there's two LTC meeting dates in the summer that there's a proposed changes to

[0:04:14] Planner Stockdill: So a discussion around that for 18.2.

[0:04:23] Trustee Patrick: Are there trustees who have an agreement to move 15.2 up to before 15.1?

[0:04:30] Voice 11: Absolutely fine with me.

[0:04:32] Trustee Patrick: And adding a discussion on the meeting schedule, is there anything else that needs to be added?

[0:04:37] Trustee Patrick: Can we approve the agenda as amended through general consent?

[0:04:42] Voice 11: Yes, you can.

[0:04:43] Trustee Patrick: All right. Thank you.

[0:04:46] Trustee Patrick: Okay. So this is a time for trustee reports. Who'd like to go first.

[0:04:54] Voice 10: Take off.

[0:04:56] Voice 12: You know, I mean, I, I'm, I guess we last spoke to, um,

[0:05:00] Voice 12: the community at the end of January. Um, and, uh,

[0:05:07] Voice 12: we're now at the beginning of March. I don't, I don't really, to be honest with you,

[0:05:12] Voice 12: you have a lot, I mean, a lot of updates, you know, normally,

[0:05:14] Voice 12: and maybe in in times gone by you might have reported on different gatherings of people that

[0:05:19] Voice 12: you met with but that's not really happening these days so other than saying that I'm glad

[0:05:26] Voice 12: that we seem to have made it through the winter without too many more windstorms or

[0:05:30] Voice 12: trees come down I think we're all well and looking forward to the spring so I'm going to keep my

[0:05:35] Voice 12: comments short.

[0:05:37] Trustee Patrick: Thank you. Trustee Wright.

[0:05:41] Voice 11: The only thing I have I'd say is just to remind

[0:05:47] Voice 11: our residents to stay safe. In a meeting with Chief Mike Dine yesterday he did say that

[0:05:57] Voice 11: the island in spite of all the recommendations not to travel that it is at absolute capacity

[0:06:05] Voice 11: right now it's quite full um people don't seem to be paying too much attention to this

[0:06:11] Voice 11: um recommendations of uh dr henry so uh stay safe be careful and be be nice thanks all right thank

[0:06:21] Trustee Patrick: you i just have one uh next week is uh trust council are at one of our quarterly meetings

[0:06:26] Trustee Patrick: it's going to be march 9th through the 11th and the town hall portion is on the evening of the

[0:06:32] Trustee Patrick: the 9th from 7 till 9 and if you wish to join that meeting there's information there on the

[0:06:39] Trustee Patrick: website as to how to how to watch that meeting and participate okay so this brings me to the

[0:06:48] Trustee Patrick: town hall so I want to just review there's several opportunities to speak today so I just want to

[0:06:52] Trustee Patrick: review them because it's important that that you understand so in the town hall so we have a town

[0:06:59] Trustee Patrick: which would be welcome comments and questions that are in general nature and the work that's being done.

[0:07:05] Trustee Patrick: But we have two community information meetings. The first one is on bylaws 119 and 120, where staff will give a presentation.

[0:07:14] Trustee Patrick: And during after that presentation, you can ask specific questions and comments about the bylaws at that time.

[0:07:23] Trustee Patrick: So you don't need to ask in the town hall and the community information meeting.

[0:07:26] Trustee Patrick: you can just wait to the community information meeting and you'll have an opportunity to ask about

[0:07:30] Trustee Patrick: that then there'll be a public hearing on the bylaws 119 and 120 and that's where you would

[0:07:36] Trustee Patrick: express your opinion about the bylaw of whether you um you know what or how you're you're impacted

[0:07:43] Trustee Patrick: by it again so um so just to want to be clear on the differences and then we're going to have a

[0:07:49] Trustee Patrick: community information meeting on bylaw 121 which is the alternative housing so again same format

[0:07:54] Trustee Patrick: at you'll have a presentation and a chance where you can ask questions and and about the um uh the

[0:07:59] Trustee Patrick: bylaw and then a public hearing following that so a lot of things to keep straight a lot of

[0:08:04] Trustee Patrick: opportunities for you to speak to us today and i'd appreciate trying to stay within the the subject

[0:08:09] Trustee Patrick: matter of of the of the topic as we're there so now is the town hall so uh this is like i said a

[0:08:16] Trustee Patrick: chance for you to speak to us on items other than the bylaws that we have the community information

[0:08:21] Trustee Patrick: meetings and public hearings on today because we'll have that opportunity in a

[0:08:24] Trustee Patrick: moment and so when directing a local trust committee please direct your

[0:08:28] Trustee Patrick: comments to the local trust committee not the audience or staff speak about

[0:08:31] Trustee Patrick: issues not individuals be clear concise and respectful and you can get our

[0:08:38] Trustee Patrick: attention by pressing this at the center of the screen or raise a hand function

[0:08:42] Trustee Patrick: those of you that are on the phone it is star six maple oh

[0:08:48] Voice 2: star nine yeah

[0:08:50] Trustee Patrick: raise your hand yeah and

[0:08:52] Voice 2: then star six for um unmuting and muting themselves i always reverse those so

[0:08:57] Trustee Patrick: if you're on the phone

[0:08:57] Trustee Patrick: star nine would raise your hand otherwise if you're on the screen for those of you who have

[0:09:02] Trustee Patrick: attended this join this meeting through the uh live streaming uh service rather than through

[0:09:08] Trustee Patrick: through Zoom, you will not be able to get our attention.

[0:09:11] Trustee Patrick: So if you did intend to speak to us today,

[0:09:13] Trustee Patrick: you need to move over to the Zoom link,

[0:09:14] Trustee Patrick: which is available on the website.

[0:09:16] Trustee Patrick: If you go to the South Pender page

[0:09:18] Trustee Patrick: under the calendar function,

[0:09:20] Trustee Patrick: you can get to the links on joining the meeting.

[0:09:24] Trustee Patrick: So please start moving over to that format

[0:09:28] Trustee Patrick: if that was your intent.

[0:09:31] Trustee Patrick: Okay, so we're in the town hall.

[0:09:32] Trustee Patrick: No one's raising their hands for general topics.

[0:09:35] Trustee Patrick: I'll give it a moment.

[0:09:37] Trustee Patrick: if not we're going to move right into the community information meeting i'm not seeing

[0:09:43] Trustee Patrick: any hands go up so all right so we're going to move on oh i see donna spalling has raised her

[0:09:49] Trustee Patrick: hand donna if you take yourself off mute we should be able to hear you thanks very much

[0:09:55] Voice 20: chair patrick i just have a couple of questions i wonder if um staff could indicate to us how

[0:10:00] Voice 20: many people are joining this event um and i have another question i can't remember what it was

[0:10:06] Voice 20: Oh, I know, I looked at the South Pender website and I don't see a record of any of the correspondence

[0:10:14] Voice 20: that's been submitted and I wonder when that will be available.

[0:10:21] Trustee Patrick: We have public hearing binders that are up-to-date that are available right in that meeting calendar

[0:10:29] Trustee Patrick: function there.

[0:10:30] Trustee Patrick: There's the public binders for each of those and then there's other, are you talking about

[0:10:35] Trustee Patrick: the general correspondence donna that yeah

[0:10:37] Voice 20: correspondence is when addressed to the to

[0:10:40] Voice 20: the trustees and yourself i understood that those are usually posted to the website uh

[0:10:45] Trustee Patrick: they they are

[0:10:47] Trustee Patrick: and i'll look to i know maple are those up to date or are we still catching up i

[0:10:53] Voice 20: don't see anything

[0:10:53] Voice 2: uh donna may i ask um which um general topic or application or project is it about

[0:11:00] Voice 2: out

[0:11:01] Voice 20: well usually with regard to this meeting um and when there's a um you know this um there's a

[0:11:08] Voice 20: a web page specifically for the meeting um i believe in the past we've seen the correspondence

[0:11:14] Voice 20: that's been submitted okay

[0:11:17] Voice 2: i understand what you're saying it should be there um for example

[0:11:22] Voice 2: for today's bylaw 119 and 120 for short-term vacation rentals it is updated um on there but

[0:11:29] Voice 2: But again, just wanted to say that it is updated in the public hearing binder as well.

[0:11:34] Voice 2: So it should be all there.

[0:11:36] Voice 20: Okay.

[0:11:37] Voice 20: Then I just don't know how to find it.

[0:11:38] Voice 20: And I'll try and look a little bit more.

[0:11:41] Voice 20: I could send

[0:11:42] Voice 2: you the link, Donna, if you'd like by email.

[0:11:43] Voice 15: Of course, correspondence is posted by the topic.

[0:11:46] Voice 15: So if it's for a project, like sort of an ongoing issue, as opposed to like a public hearing,

[0:11:51] Voice 15: it's posted under that project.

[0:11:53] Voice 15: project or if there is an application which self-management doesn't have any currently

[0:11:58] Voice 15: any correspondence related to that application will be posted on the applications page

[0:12:02] Voice 15: but I

[0:12:04] Voice 20: see it now thank you very much yep so then my second question was about the number of people

[0:12:09] Voice 20: who are joining this event I'm happy to tell you if we

[0:12:14] Voice 20: had that information handy there

[0:12:17] Trustee Patrick: are 18 that

[0:12:17] Trustee Patrick: are through the zoom link um that you entered as well but i have no idea how many are watching

[0:12:24] Trustee Patrick: through the live streaming thanks all right thank you very much are there any other questions

[0:12:32] Trustee Patrick: during the town hall part well i see another hand from alma now this is general questions

[0:12:42] Trustee Patrick: can you activate alma's uh mic maple alma

[0:12:49] Voice 2: alma's profile doesn't allow me to just let her talk i

[0:12:52] Voice 2: to put her as a panelist for a second and then i'll move her right back okay all

[0:13:01] Trustee Patrick: right alma if

[0:13:02] Trustee Patrick: you try turning your mic or camera on we can i

[0:13:12] Voice 2: don't seem to see your audio though um alma you

[0:13:15] Voice 2: might have to unmute yourself or try to find the um it's like in a little microphone icon there

[0:13:23] Trustee Patrick: yeah there's a little microphone icon there's a little arrow next to it if you click on it

[0:13:28] Trustee Patrick: you may need to phone in if your audio is not working through your computer

[0:13:32] Trustee Patrick: okay um well why don't we move on then to um the next person that's asking and well alma hopefully

[0:13:58] Trustee Patrick: you can uh find a solution to your audio there's gordy if you can take yourself off mute or jordy

[0:14:07] Trustee Patrick: i

[0:14:08] Voice 14: just offer a caution i lost the internet for a few minutes here a few minutes or so so

[0:14:14] Voice 14: maybe folks might have to um relaunch themselves no

[0:14:21] Trustee Patrick: thank thank you that's the thank you

[0:14:23] Trustee Patrick: will be patient and go slow. I don't know if Alma has been able to overcome her audio challenges.

[0:14:46] Trustee Patrick: All right trustee should we move on or?

[0:14:51] Voice 11: Sure looks like it yeah.

[0:14:53] Trustee Patrick: All right so I'm going to

[0:14:58] Trustee Patrick: now go on to the community information meeting and we're going to invite Planner Stockgill to.

[0:15:07] Planner Stockdill: Thank you, Chair Patrick. So this is a community information meeting in regards to the short-term

[0:15:13] Planner Stockdill: vacation rental project and there's two proposed bylaws associated with this project. The first

[0:15:20] Planner Stockdill: one I'm going to speak to is Bylaw 120 and those are amendments to the Land Use Bylaw.

[0:15:26] Planner Stockdill: So South Pender LTC Land Use Bylaw currently permits short-term vacation rental use in

[0:15:31] Planner Stockdill: cottages as a form of home business. Proposed bylaw number 120 would amend the definition of

[0:15:38] Planner Stockdill: home business to remove the reference of short-term vacation rentals. In addition,

[0:15:43] Planner Stockdill: the home business general regulations will be amended to remove any regulations related to

[0:15:49] Planner Stockdill: STVRs. So in summary, bylaw 120 removes short-term vacation rentals as a permitted

[0:15:56] Planner Stockdill: use in the land use bylaw. Now proposed bylaw number 119, this is in regards to amendments to

[0:16:04] Planner Stockdill: the South Pender official community plan. So the bylaw 119 removes enabling policies in the OCP

[0:16:13] Planner Stockdill: that support the regulation of short-term vacation rentals in the land use bylaw. In addition,

[0:16:20] Planner Stockdill: proposed bylaw number 119 adds guidelines to the temporary use permit section of the OCP

[0:16:26] Planner Stockdill: that are specific to short-term vacation rental applications.

[0:16:30] Planner Stockdill: I did read over the correspondence related to this project,

[0:16:34] Planner Stockdill: and I thought I would answer a few technical questions

[0:16:37] Planner Stockdill: that may come up during the community information meeting.

[0:16:41] Planner Stockdill: So the first one is around Southpender fee bylaw

[0:16:45] Planner Stockdill: that states the application fee for a temporary use permit is $1,100.

[0:16:51] Planner Stockdill: And the main reason for this fee is to cover advertising costs

[0:16:55] Planner Stockdill: cost for a temporary use permit application. All TUP applications must be advertised in a newspaper

[0:17:01] Planner Stockdill: once, and this is a requirement of the Local Government Act, and advertising costs are

[0:17:06] Planner Stockdill: actually quite high. The second is the Local Government Act also dictates the requirement

[0:17:12] Planner Stockdill: that a TUP may only be issued up to four years, and then the applicant has the ability to renew

[0:17:19] Planner Stockdill: that permit once. After the renewal is finished, the applicant has the opportunity to reapply.

[0:17:25] Planner Stockdill: a new application so if bylaw number 120 is adopted and short-term vacation rentals are

[0:17:33] Planner Stockdill: no longer permitted as a home business all those uses that were legally conforming to the previous

[0:17:39] Planner Stockdill: land use bylaw would be considered legal non-conforming and we hear the word a grandfathered

[0:17:45] Planner Stockdill: use quite a bit and that's at per section 14 of the local government act and I encourage

[0:17:53] Planner Stockdill: everybody to read over that section because there are some parameters concerning legal non-conforming

[0:18:00] Planner Stockdill: specifically section 528.2 that states that if a non-conforming use authorized under a subsection

[0:18:08] Planner Stockdill: is discontinued for a continuous period of six months any subsequent use of the land building

[0:18:15] Planner Stockdill: or other structure become subject to the land use bylaw regulation so what that means that

[0:18:20] Planner Stockdill: that if bylaw 120 is adopted and short-term vacation rentals are removed from the land use

[0:18:26] Planner Stockdill: bylaw, and somebody is operating a short-term vacation rental legally, and then the bylaw

[0:18:32] Planner Stockdill: changes and that use is no longer legal, they are protected under that section of the Local

[0:18:38] Planner Stockdill: Government Act. In regards to the six-month continuous use, it doesn't mean that you have

[0:18:44] Planner Stockdill: to rent your unit out once every six months. It could mean that it really is

[0:18:52] Planner Stockdill: ensuring that you have the intent to rent, you have your calendar up to date on Airbnb

[0:19:00] Planner Stockdill: and so forth. So it doesn't mean that you have to get somebody in your door every once every

[0:19:05] Planner Stockdill: six months. So I just want to clarify that. The fourth point is that a temporary use permit

[0:19:11] Planner Stockdill: the permit guidelines that are in the OCP are just that, they're guidelines.

[0:19:16] Planner Stockdill: So, for example, if 119, a by-law number 119 is adopted and there is a TUP

[0:19:22] Planner Stockdill: guideline stating that the maximum guest who are adults is four, an applicant can

[0:19:28] Planner Stockdill: still make an application requesting a maximum guest number of six.

[0:19:33] Planner Stockdill: But the applicant must have a very strong

[0:19:35] Planner Stockdill: rationale as to why they would like this increase.

[0:19:39] Planner Stockdill: increase. The guidelines are there for the LTC to express their intent of what they're looking for

[0:19:46] Planner Stockdill: in short-term vacation rentals, but applicants do have the ability to request something that

[0:19:52] Planner Stockdill: is beyond the guidelines, but there must be a strong rationale as to that request.

[0:19:56] Planner Stockdill: And again, another point that's come up is the issue of business licenses.

[0:20:01] Planner Stockdill: The Islands Trust and the LTC does not have the authority to issue a business

[0:20:08] Planner Stockdill: licenses. So that's not something that the LTC could actually initiate. Those are the the major

[0:20:17] Planner Stockdill: points I wanted to make and also the summary of proposed bylaws number 119 and 120. Okay thank

[0:20:28] Trustee Patrick: you very much Planner Stockdale. So this is the community information meeting. So this is your

[0:20:34] Trustee Patrick: chance to ask questions of clarifications about the bylaw and so forth. So this isn't where you

[0:20:39] Trustee Patrick: you would express your opinion of if you like it or don't like it. This is just an opportunity to

[0:20:43] Trustee Patrick: understand what the bylaw is doing and ask questions about it. So with that, again, I'm

[0:20:50] Trustee Patrick: opening the conversation and you can raise your hand. And Alma, I see you've got your hand raised

[0:20:56] Trustee Patrick: again. Let's see if your audio is fixed. I've got my fingers crossed. So let's try it, Maple.

[0:21:03] Trustee Patrick: Alma, can you find your audio?

[0:21:09] Voice 2: Unfortunately, we don't see our audio connected still.

[0:21:18] Voice 2: sorry sorry i was gonna say yeah alma we really recommend if you could call in or you can also

[0:21:22] Voice 2: send us an email um could

[0:21:26] Trustee Patrick: someone email her the phone numbers to call in that would perhaps

[0:21:35] Voice 2: um the phone numbers are located on our um news web page but i don't have alma's email i don't

[0:21:41] Voice 2: think so so

[0:21:50] Trustee Patrick: it's on um could you share screen for a moment maybe and just go to that page so

[0:21:57] Trustee Patrick: people could see it case almost not the only one that's having that

[0:22:00] Trustee Patrick: challenge then people can see

[0:22:02] Trustee Patrick: that phone number

[0:22:03] Voice 2: okay no problem one moment chair patrick all

[0:22:06] Trustee Patrick: right folks i just want to take this

[0:22:07] Trustee Patrick: moment to make sure everyone's got the opportunity to communicate with us today and okay this is the

[0:22:19] Trustee Patrick: the email yeah if you could just share a screen up on the

[0:22:24] Voice 2: okay um

[0:22:25] Trustee Patrick: to the uh go to the web page

[0:22:28] Trustee Patrick: sure

[0:22:28] Voice 2: one moment um phone number's just right in the middle there highlighted right there

[0:22:52] Voice 2: all

[0:22:53] Trustee Patrick: right so leave that up for a minute so if you could see that area in the center there it

[0:23:01] Trustee Patrick: says by telephone and it has those phone numbers there so i'm going to leave that up for a few

[0:23:05] Trustee Patrick: moments while um um while people have a chance to see that phone especially alma see if she can call

[0:23:13] Trustee Patrick: in um using that system so well if i think we can do both we can leave that up and start the

[0:23:24] Trustee Patrick: questions uh coming we'll see how for a few minutes so i see a um mariette mariette um

[0:23:32] Trustee Patrick: So, Ariadne, if you take yourself off of mute, you should be able to speak.

[0:23:39] Trustee Patrick: Hello.

[0:23:40] Trustee Patrick: Hello.

[0:23:42] Trustee Patrick: So

[0:23:43] Voice 18: my question has to do, excuse me, with the six-month thing that was just being discussed.

[0:23:51] Voice 18: How are you going to monitor that?

[0:23:53] Voice 18: And, you know, what many people, such as ourselves, might want to live in our own place for six months or five months or four months or something.

[0:24:03] Voice 18: thing you talked about oh you have to be available on on uh airbnb well you know you can be i don't

[0:24:12] Voice 18: use airbnb and i don't use vacation rental by owner and i don't use any of those um advertising

[0:24:19] Voice 18: i we do very very limited advertising and you wouldn't be able to find me most probably

[0:24:26] Voice 18: probably and and so how how does that jive because we decide to live over there ourselves

[0:24:34] Voice 18: for four or five months or six months does that mean we go back to being having to to pay the

[0:24:41] Voice 18: eleven hundred dollars and um you know i just don't understand how that works there doesn't

[0:24:47] Voice 18: seem to be a clear process for how that would happen and so people are being expected to agree

[0:24:55] Voice 18: to agree to something that's very arbitrary and ambiguous so i'd just like more comment on how

[0:25:05] Voice 18: that would be managed no thank

[0:25:07] Trustee Patrick: you says is about the grandfathering who could uh just

[0:25:10] Voice 18: my other

[0:25:11] Voice 18: question forward um well if the advertising of this um temporary use permit is so outrageously

[0:25:22] Voice 18: expensive it's my way of thinking that's just another reason why it doesn't make any sense to

[0:25:28] Voice 18: do it at all why create this bureaucracy you you you refer to um or the the speaker was referring

[0:25:39] Voice 18: to people's ability this isn't about our ability you're removing property rights and the highest

[0:25:47] Voice 18: courts in the land say that when people remove your rights such as those that are enshrined in

[0:25:54] Voice 18: the constitution including the right to own private property when you take away or diminish

[0:25:59] Voice 18: any of those rights the onus is on you to prove that it's really necessary to do that

[0:26:08] Voice 18: and i haven't seen any indication that it's necessary so my question is why is any of this

[0:26:16] Voice 18: necessary.

[0:26:18] Trustee Patrick: All right well thank you I'm gonna let's see first I'm gonna answer your first

[0:26:21] Trustee Patrick: question on grandfathering first I'll look to plan our stock bill too.

[0:26:25] Planner Stockdill: Yeah thank you you're

[0:26:27] Planner Stockdill: asking you know how do we monitor this and what does that look like and again the only

[0:26:36] Planner Stockdill: it's the intent of using a short-term vacation rental so again it's not as though that you have

[0:26:42] Planner Stockdill: to have a guest in your cottage once every six months it's the fact that perhaps even though

[0:26:47] Planner Stockdill: you may not advertise on airbnb that perhaps you have your your own calendar and you're you're

[0:26:52] Planner Stockdill: thinking about um renting uh or you're you're actively keeping that use going even though there

[0:26:59] Planner Stockdill: may not be somebody in the um in the cottage so it's also that that intent of use where some

[0:27:08] Voice 18: intent is in my mind and not how are you going to monitor that we

[0:27:15] Planner Stockdill: don't monitor it it's not

[0:27:17] Planner Stockdill: something that we're monitoring i

[0:27:18] Voice 18: have this arbitrary rule that's based on thought patterns

[0:27:24] Voice 18: that are in somebody else's brain i don't get it sorry i

[0:27:31] Voice 11: think if i if i could jump in here i think

[0:27:33] Voice 11: one of the hopefully one of the uh things that come out of this is that we will be able to have

[0:27:40] Voice 11: a registry of those uh stvrs that are operating and um as uh planner stockdale says we're not

[0:27:47] Voice 11: We're not sending bylaw enforcement around to check every month to make sure that somebody's in your cottage.

[0:27:54] Voice 11: The fact of the matter is that if we can get a registry established and get some idea of who is operating in STVR,

[0:28:02] Voice 11: we can begin to utilize that information to collect data that a number of people have asked for.

[0:28:11] Voice 11: Initially, they asked us to provide the data why we should regulate.

[0:28:15] Voice 11: And then when we suggest regulations to collect data,

[0:28:21] Voice 11: we're being told we don't need the data.

[0:28:23] Voice 11: So we can only try and do what we can do.

[0:28:29] Voice 11: Unfortunately, nothing is perfect,

[0:28:34] Voice 11: but we'll try and work our way around

[0:28:36] Voice 11: and find something that does work

[0:28:39] Voice 11: to the best of our advantage and the best to our ability

[0:28:42] Voice 11: and making sure that the community gathers the information

[0:28:45] Voice 11: that they require and have some idea of how many operations are currently on the island.

[0:28:53] Voice 18: Sorry Steve, but that isn't even remotely answering my question.

[0:28:59] Voice 18: Say again?

[0:29:00] Voice 18: Why create a rule that requires surveillance that you cannot manage or orchestrate any form

[0:29:12] Voice 18: of surveillance to do with people's intent and you're removing a property right so why are you

[0:29:20] Voice 18: removing the property right and what was wrong with what was already there you know we went

[0:29:25] Voice 18: through this a few years ago and it was all tickety-boo and and and suddenly there's this

[0:29:32] Voice 18: great change and there's nobody has any idea of where the change came from it seems to come out

[0:29:38] Voice 18: of the blue. I don't see any support for it. Well

[0:29:44] Voice 11: I think you're making one mistake right

[0:29:47] Voice 11: off the bat is that you're suggesting that we're taking a right of way. We're

[0:29:51] Voice 11: not outlawing this

[0:29:52] Voice 11: use. We're simply regulating it. There's a huge

[0:29:55] Voice 18: difference there. You don't have to remove a right.

[0:30:00] Voice 18: is diminished by what you're doing it it means that my um control and management of my own

[0:30:08] Voice 18: property is is more so in in your hands than it was before that's the removal of a right

[0:30:15] Voice 18: there's no there's i don't see anything you know in my letter i quoted a judge in the superior

[0:30:22] Voice 18: court of ontario who said the right when you own something whether it's a skateboard or a boat or

[0:30:28] Voice 18: a piece of property uh it comes with the right to rent it and we we haven't you haven't mentioned

[0:30:37] Voice 18: anywhere in your documentation the difference between uh a lease and a license so when somebody

[0:30:46] Voice 18: is occupying a property as a short-term renter they they're there under a license to

[0:30:56] Voice 18: to occupy and they don't have an interest in the property whereas somebody who's renting has an

[0:31:04] Voice 18: interest in the property and that has huge implications that you haven't even entertained

[0:31:08] Voice 18: and i don't i just don't understand how all these little sub rules like how many occupancy you're

[0:31:17] Voice 18: saying that we have to go through all sorts of hoops to allow a family with three children to

[0:31:23] Voice 18: come because you you've limited it to four people well i'm sorry no we haven't

[0:31:32] Voice 18: the international

[0:31:34] Voice 18: codes of law uh the international rights of the children they say that you can't start

[0:31:40] Voice 18: discriminating on the basis of family structure well even our own daughter has three kids

[0:31:47] Trustee Patrick: okay i think we're moving into debating the um right now so i think your questions uh

[0:31:52] Trustee Patrick: we've heard your questions and have attempted to to answer them at this point and there may be more

[0:31:58] Voice 18: along these lines why is this necessary you

[0:32:00] Trustee Patrick: you you can also uh have a chance you know you'll need

[0:32:04] Trustee Patrick: to uh during the public hearing i'm

[0:32:07] Voice 18: not stating an opinion i'm asking a question and the question

[0:32:11] Voice 18: is why is it necessary why are we doing this at all whose idea was it the

[0:32:17] Voice 12: community's idea you

[0:32:18] Voice 12: know there's been a long long discussion that's been going on now the better part of two years

[0:32:22] Voice 12: and I don't know whether you had a chance to participate in the mail-up poll that went to

[0:32:28] Voice 12: every household on the island and mailed to every person who's on title on the island

[0:32:33] Voice 12: but there was a poll that was taken and it demonstrated a community desire for a greater

[0:32:40] Voice 12: level of oversight over STVRs than what currently existed prior to the implementation of bylaw 117

[0:32:47] Voice 12: So we have tried to listen to the community, ma'am, on this. And I realize that a community is not necessarily always going to have unanimity of views. And so what we're trying to do is take a balanced approach to this. Respecting property rights is paramount for me, but property rights are not without limitation.

[0:33:08] Voice 12: limitation. That's what government does. Government tries to strike a balance because

[0:33:14] Voice 12: your property rights, if they were expressed without limitation, would could impact the

[0:33:20] Voice 12: property rights of people around you. So like anything in a society, we have to try and strike

[0:33:24] Voice 12: balances. And that's what we're doing here.

[0:33:27] Trustee Patrick: All right. So thank you, Trustee Thorne.

[0:33:32] Trustee Patrick: Okay, I see a Jane Birch. Jane, if you take yourself off mute.

[0:33:40] Voice 5: okay um sorry i had to come in late um we had a internet crash on our internet so i don't even

[0:33:47] Voice 5: know exactly where we're at the beginning of it

[0:33:48] Trustee Patrick: this is an opportunity to ask questions about

[0:33:51] Trustee Patrick: the the bylaws uh 119 and 120 related to the short-term vacation rental so we're we're asking

[0:33:59] Trustee Patrick: questions for clarity about the bylaws or is

[0:34:02] Voice 5: this the community information part this is the

[0:34:05] Trustee Patrick: community information part. I

[0:34:06] Voice 5: just wanted to get clear on the procedure for community

[0:34:09] Voice 5: information sessions. Are you keeping minutes of the discussion that's held during this time

[0:34:19] Voice 5: on the community information session? Yes, we are. Okay, so anything that's discussed and

[0:34:24] Voice 5: questions and things, those will hopefully eventually get addressed, or at least there's

[0:34:29] Voice 5: some record of what has transpired in that section?

[0:34:32] Voice 5: Correct.

[0:34:33] Voice 5: Yeah.

[0:34:34] Voice 5: And just to be clear for others,

[0:34:37] Voice 5: and I think you discussed this at the start of the meeting

[0:34:40] Voice 5: before I got cut out,

[0:34:42] Voice 5: but if anybody wants to specifically speak to the bylaws

[0:34:46] Voice 5: and voice their views,

[0:34:48] Voice 5: despite what they say at the community information session,

[0:34:51] Voice 5: if they need to speak to the each bylaw itself

[0:34:55] Voice 5: in terms of the public hearing portion of the meeting

[0:34:58] Voice 5: to be recorded as to their views is that correct

[0:35:01] Trustee Patrick: that's correct well once we have this uh close

[0:35:04] Trustee Patrick: this community information meeting we'll open a public hearing and will be an official process

[0:35:08] Trustee Patrick: that all will be recorded thank you um

[0:35:12] Voice 12: yes one further um i guess question to the question from

[0:35:18] Voice 12: jane um the um in terms of these things being recorded obviously they've been recorded in a

[0:35:24] Voice 12: traditional manner where you know it's on a on a paper it's on it's a document but i'm assuming

[0:35:29] Voice 12: that all of these these videos that we're participating in right now are posted so that

[0:35:35] Voice 12: that they can be viewed by anybody in the future as well yes

[0:35:39] Trustee Patrick: they will they are available for

[0:35:41] Trustee Patrick: viewing after after within a few days after the meeting

[0:35:44] Voice 3: perfect all

[0:35:46] Trustee Patrick: right thank you jane anyone

[0:35:48] Trustee Patrick: Anyone else that have any questions of clarity on bylaws 119 or 120?

[0:35:53] Trustee Patrick: I see Gordy.

[0:35:58] Voice 14: Yes, just a point of clarification.

[0:36:00] Voice 14: I think Planner Stockdale said four years renewal on a TUP, and is it not three?

[0:36:10] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, thank you.

[0:36:11] Trustee Patrick: I caught that.

[0:36:12] Trustee Patrick: I was going to question her, too.

[0:36:13] Trustee Patrick: Is it three years?

[0:36:14] Planner Stockdill: Pardon me.

[0:36:15] Planner Stockdill: It is three years.

[0:36:16] Planner Stockdill: Three and three.

[0:36:18] Voice 10: Thank you.

[0:36:19] Voice 12: sure and can i ask one more question here um that's just because it's come up in a bit of

[0:36:24] Voice 12: correspondence um so three-year term at eleven hundred dollars is i don't know 350 bucks or

[0:36:30] Voice 12: somewhere in that range um uh annually um to renew it for another three years can i confirm that

[0:36:38] Voice 12: there is not another eleven hundred dollars that has to be paid at that point in time or or is there

[0:36:43] Trustee Patrick: it's a hundred and something isn't it for renewal 165

[0:36:46] Planner Stockdill: for renewal how

[0:36:48] Voice 12: much kim sorry

[0:36:49] Planner Stockdill: 165 dollars

[0:36:50] Planner Stockdill: 165 so

[0:36:52] Voice 12: it's 1100 plus 165 so um okay that's and i guess if you amortize that over six years it's

[0:37:02] Voice 12: it's not a bad cost i mean it's not the cost is not exorbitant when you look at it that way

[0:37:07] Voice 12: I would suggest all

[0:37:12] Trustee Patrick: right I see Donna Spaulding's next thank

[0:37:17] Voice 20: you very much chair Patrick um just a

[0:37:19] Voice 20: couple of points first of all I don't see any correspondence on the site referring to

[0:37:26] Voice 20: correspondence 2020-21 STR uh STVR review since January 8th 2021 and I know there's been

[0:37:36] Voice 20: correspondence since then because I've sent correspondence so that's my first comment

[0:37:39] Voice 20: My second comment is, or my question, can I make comments or do I have to ask questions?

[0:37:47] Voice 20: These are questions.

[0:37:48] Trustee Patrick: Questions.

[0:37:49] Voice 20: Yep.

[0:37:49] Voice 20: Okay.

[0:37:50] Voice 20: So, Trustee Thorne, in your analysis of $1,100 to cover a STVR application and $165 to renew,

[0:38:06] Voice 20: new, I'm not hearing any qualification for the cost of the other pieces that, you know, water,

[0:38:21] Voice 20: sewer, site plan, so a survey, etc., etc., etc., that may be requested. I'm wondering if you

[0:38:34] Voice 20: if you have taken those into account at all?

[0:38:41] Voice 12: Well, we can talk about that.

[0:38:43] Voice 12: I mean, the question was,

[0:38:44] Voice 12: I know that there were some people

[0:38:45] Voice 12: that were specifically focused in on the cost of the TUP,

[0:38:48] Voice 12: which is what I was responding to there.

[0:38:51] Voice 12: But in terms of your question,

[0:38:53] Voice 12: and it's a fair one about what other sort of associated costs

[0:38:57] Voice 12: with an SDVR might be

[0:39:00] Voice 12: and whether they should be taken into account.

[0:39:01] Voice 12: Well, certainly they should.

[0:39:03] Voice 12: good um i guess if anybody is making a business decision as to whether they want to operate an

[0:39:09] Voice 12: stv are they just like anybody in any business does they need to look at all of the costs and

[0:39:14] Voice 12: figure out uh or be comfortable with with um the rationalization or or not to proceed with a

[0:39:21] Voice 12: business but you know i think on on the january we did go through and i and i mean i'm happy to

[0:39:28] Voice 12: speak to that more you know like well throughout this this conversation today but we did go

[0:39:32] Voice 12: we did go through the draft tup at the end of january and looked at a number of things that

[0:39:40] Voice 12: were in the tup uh you know draft provisions in the tup and uh you know we were mindful of the

[0:39:47] Voice 12: comments that we've gotten from a lot of people uh in the community that that had provided critiques

[0:39:53] Voice 12: of the TUP and so some of the things that were in there around, you know, water, around,

[0:40:01] Voice 12: trying to remember what some of the other things were, we felt that they were perhaps unfairly

[0:40:08] Voice 12: targeting an STVR and that it shouldn't be, I mean what was one of them, I'm just pulling up,

[0:40:15] Voice 12: the applicant should demonstrate an adequate supply of water and septic capacity.

[0:40:19] Voice 12: So that that that we we struck that from the TUP back in January.

[0:40:25] Voice 12: There was a couple of clauses that related to that. So I think we've been trying to be mindful of of of things that if you know if somebody's already got an occupancy permit, then they obviously demonstrated at that time that they had adequate water and sewage capacity.

[0:40:44] Voice 12: so it seemed excessive to to require some other undefined standard at the time somebody was

[0:40:50] Voice 12: applying for an stvr so i think i think we've tried to strike a balance donna but you know i

[0:40:54] Voice 12: guess that's up to everybody's interpretation i

[0:40:58] Voice 11: think i think we should also keep in mind that

[0:41:00] Voice 11: there there will be further amendments that we're suggesting to the to the proposed bylaw as well

[0:41:06] Voice 11: that will slim it down even more.

[0:41:09] Voice 20: And so I submitted to Chair Patrick

[0:41:15] Voice 20: and our local trustees, a long list of questions,

[0:41:20] Voice 20: which, and again, I don't see any of that correspondence

[0:41:22] Voice 20: on the project page for SDVRs, nothing since January 8th.

[0:41:30] Voice 20: But again, speaking to some of the previous questions,

[0:41:35] Voice 20: You know, I have to ask, you know, if there isn't more, we've had 30% of the people who answered your survey said that they felt that something was required.

[0:41:54] Voice 20: 30%.

[0:41:55] Voice 20: That's not, that doesn't constitute a community all for all direction in my mind.

[0:42:02] Voice 20: however i i have to think and understand that there may be areas where some people believe

[0:42:14] Voice 20: that there is a need for some different um control if you will or oversight and i don't

[0:42:23] Voice 20: understand why we're throwing this thing over the whole island and um when we you know when we have

[0:42:32] Voice 20: I haven't heard anybody complain. And so, and I believe you've received letters from people who live next door to STVRs who are saying they don't have any complaints.

[0:42:43] Voice 20: So my question remains, why do we need to go to this extent of removing it as a use period on our island and removing every reference to it in our OCP that, you know, we decided in the last review was appropriate?

[0:43:02] Voice 12: Can I, you know, Chair Patrick, maybe you can give some clarification here.

[0:43:08] Voice 12: Is the community, we've sort of got two venues here in which to discuss these things.

[0:43:13] Voice 12: And I'm, you know, I'm trying to be mindful of the appropriate time for me to express my views.

[0:43:19] Voice 12: And maybe you can give some guidance as to whether this is the time to get into the discussion in a more fulsome way or when we're actually in the public hearing.

[0:43:31] Trustee Patrick: Well, we shouldn't have discussion during the public hearing. Our job in the public

[0:43:35] Trustee Patrick: hearing as trustees is to listen to the input and to avoid debate during the public hearing.

[0:43:42] Trustee Patrick: So this is the community information meeting, which is really about clarity of the bylaw

[0:43:47] Trustee Patrick: as to what does the bylaw do and how is it functioning. And then we'll have a discussion

[0:43:56] Trustee Patrick: amongst us trustees where we can debate the the bylaw during later in the meeting if you choose

[0:44:03] Trustee Patrick: to proceed today yeah

[0:44:05] Voice 12: i guess fair enough and i guess um you're right it's the public hearing is

[0:44:09] Voice 12: is more to hear people's comments and then and then we receive those comments and then we i guess

[0:44:14] Voice 12: we reflect upon that and then and then make a decision obviously um so some of these things

[0:44:19] Voice 12: are bleeding over into the two sections in my mind but nonetheless

[0:44:21] Voice 12: i would like maybe at this

[0:44:23] Voice 12: point then based on what what what donna's just said uh well let me respond let me let me raise

[0:44:29] Voice 12: one item that she related that she raised that i that i very much agree with um and i raised the

[0:44:37] Voice 12: same question uh at the uh i guess that was the 29th of january ltc is you know in my mind

[0:44:47] Voice 12: just for the record for all the people are listening in in the internet land i am not

[0:44:52] Voice 12: against stvrs i i i believe they provide um a valuable um there's a bunch of things that they

[0:45:00] Voice 12: do i mean they help people uh experience our island they're good for uh they're good for

[0:45:05] Voice 12: the economy um they um uh they provide jobs so i mean i'm i'm not against stvr and so what i found

[0:45:14] Voice 12: um a bit a bit troubling when i look through if i and correct me if i'm if my misunderstanding was

[0:45:21] Voice 12: is misguided here, but I don't want to see the references to STVRs struck out of the OCP.

[0:45:32] Voice 12: And just to staff a couple of things here, I'm just going to read from a couple of components

[0:45:42] Voice 12: of the OCP. One states, land use regulatory bylaws are to make provision for the following uses,

[0:45:52] Voice 12: and it says customary associated with a small lot rural living and one of them is short-term

[0:45:57] Voice 12: vacation rentals. The other one under section 3.1.2e2 it states and I'm not saying that these

[0:46:10] Voice 12: well let me read it and then I'll give my thoughts but it says short-term rental of dwellings may be

[0:46:17] Voice 12: allowed subject to regulation and so I guess I guess what I'm thinking is rather than trying to

[0:46:22] Voice 12: expunge the references to STVRs entirely from the OCP which I don't think is anybody's intent

[0:46:28] Voice 12: maybe maybe we need to tweak some of the language or qualify some of the language

[0:46:33] Voice 12: but I would think that we we we would say something along the lines of land use regulatory

[0:46:41] Voice 12: bylaws are to make provision for the following uses and one of those would be short-term

[0:46:46] Voice 12: vacation rentals and short-term rental of single family dwellings may be allowed subject to

[0:46:51] Voice 12: regulation um and then secondly elsewhere in the in the ocp it says uh land use regulations

[0:46:58] Voice 12: applicable to short-term single family dwellings are to be developed with the perspective of land

[0:47:03] Voice 12: use competitive compatibility to minimize adverse effects on adjacent lots in the community in

[0:47:08] Voice 12: general so to me i i i actually welcome that language in there because i think it it provides

[0:47:14] Voice 12: a rationale for the regulations that we're talking about today. And so I would, I guess

[0:47:21] Voice 12: I've stated my point, I would like to see, I don't want to see every reference to SDVRs being taken

[0:47:25] Voice 12: out of the OCP.

[0:47:28] Trustee Patrick: All right, so I think we're crossing over on opinions and things, but that's

[0:47:32] Trustee Patrick: good. We'll have that conversation later. But if we can kind of keep this to questions about the

[0:47:37] Trustee Patrick: bylaws and so forth and what they're intended to do. So I see Peter Brooks has got his hand up.

[0:47:44] Trustee Patrick: hello peter peter can we hear you oh you're turning your mic on and off but we're not able to

[0:48:01] Trustee Patrick: hear you maybe did you want to try moving him over and see if that makes a difference maple or

[0:48:11] Trustee Patrick: or is he just got audio issues peter we're going to try one time we're moving you over a panelist

[0:48:16] Trustee Patrick: and see if that made a difference try your audio once again you're going to need to probably call

[0:48:36] Trustee Patrick: in if there's something wrong with your computer audio by the mute button that i can see that you

[0:48:43] Trustee Patrick: you could turn on and off there's a little arrow next to it if you just see if you click on that

[0:48:47] Trustee Patrick: arrow that will should give you the phone numbers does that get you to the phone numbers again or

[0:48:54] Trustee Patrick: do you have to be on the computer there or switch to systems switch to phone audio all right we're

[0:49:12] Trustee Patrick: going to give him a few moments to work hopefully on on that or you can see how you're going to put

[0:49:17] Trustee Patrick: that back up again or you can send it send him the phone number we can see your screen maple

[0:49:23] Trustee Patrick: Okay,

[0:49:24] Voice 2: I can. Yeah, I'm going to send him an email. Okay. And Peter did send us an email to an answer to something and I'll forward it to you right now.

[0:49:32] Voice 2: And

[0:49:32] Planner Stockdill: Chair Packard if I just met. Well, Maple has this up. She's actually pulled up the public hearing binder where all the correspondence we've received

[0:49:40] Planner Stockdill: is in this document and that's also found on the South Pender LTC landing page. So it's not on the project website.

[0:49:50] Trustee Patrick: Correct.

[0:49:50] Trustee Patrick: yeah

[0:49:51] Planner Stockdill: located in this binder um so i just want to make sure because i believe it was jane who

[0:49:56] Planner Stockdill: was looking for that correspondence

[0:49:58] Trustee Patrick: donna spalding was asking

[0:49:59] Planner Stockdill: oh donna sorry pardon me

[0:50:00] Trustee Patrick: um yeah so see

[0:50:02] Trustee Patrick: donna that was uh right by the calendar um that you can find the public hearing finder see where

[0:50:08] Trustee Patrick: there it is can

[0:50:10] Voice 13: anybody hear me now

[0:50:11] Trustee Patrick: yes

[0:50:11] Voice 13: yeah way to go peter all right um difference in systems

[0:50:19] Voice 13: So the only problem is in doing this I'm now looking at a full screen of everything which is making it hard to refer to what I want to refer to. Okay, here we go.

[0:50:32] Voice 13: First, the answer that Maple briefly referred to is that the questioner who asked about how you would monitor non conformance.

[0:50:42] Voice 13: The answer that I have found is that it is the responsibility of the person or property that is alleging that they are asserting that they have non-conformance rights to demonstrate that they've maintained their ability to hold that right.

[0:51:02] Voice 13: For example, the six-month rule.

[0:51:04] Voice 13: And there are several legal cases that point to that.

[0:51:09] Voice 13: so the responsibility is to the owner if for example the the LTC or some other jurisdiction

[0:51:17] Voice 13: asserts that they haven't the owner must prove that they have that's helpful Peter thank you so

[0:51:24] Voice 13: that's that's where that goes the other questions that I have first a brief comment I found it a

[0:51:31] Voice 13: little bit difficult in reviewing staff reports agendas and then the bylaw that included the

[0:51:39] Voice 13: the revisions. Obviously, the versions of the bylaw varied substantially from one to the next.

[0:51:46] Voice 13: It was a little bit hard for me to keep track of what was actually in what we're currently

[0:51:52] Voice 13: looking at versus what had been presented to you on the 29th of January or on the 19th of January.

[0:52:01] Voice 13: Merely that that was a little difficult for me, so perhaps for other people too, there may be

[0:52:06] Voice 13: some misunderstandings about what is currently in the bylaw and what is no longer in the bylaw.

[0:52:12] Voice 13: Absolutely right.

[0:52:14] Trustee Patrick: The public hearing binder version that's available there on the website

[0:52:18] Trustee Patrick: is the version that we're...

[0:52:21] Voice 13: Yeah, and the only thing that I mentioned, Chair Patrick, is that

[0:52:26] Voice 13: right below that there is the staff report that's dated the very same day, and inside that staff

[0:52:32] Voice 13: staff report is the version of the bylaw that has all the things that were subsequently removed as

[0:52:39] Voice 13: well. So that is where my confusion came from, at least. And I would offer my thoughts of

[0:52:48] Voice 13: appreciation to the trustees for the items that they did remove. I think those were good choices

[0:52:55] Voice 13: because some of them, I think, created uncertainty for an applicant. The question that I have for

[0:53:01] Voice 13: either the trustees or for Planner Stockdale relates to two items that remain. One is a

[0:53:09] Voice 13: requirement for off-street parking for four vehicles. And the other, Planner Stockdale,

[0:53:15] Voice 13: you mentioned that trustees would have to have a good reason to make a change to provisions noted

[0:53:24] Voice 13: noted in the bylaw, and one of the provisions noted in the bylaw was a limit the number of

[0:53:32] Voice 13: guests who are 18 years of age or older to four. Now, it does say the permit may, but could you

[0:53:39] Voice 13: clarify whether or not the statement would imply that the trustees should apply that limitation of

[0:53:49] Voice 13: four unless the applicant has provided evidence for a reason why they should have a greater number

[0:53:56] Voice 13: or whether the trustees would in the reverse be only applying the limit of four when they

[0:54:03] Voice 13: thought there was a particular reason why that limit should be.

[0:54:10] Planner Stockdill: I'm happy to answer your question

[0:54:12] Planner Stockdill: so the limit stands of four that is the limit that's mentioned in the proposed bylaw so that

[0:54:20] Planner Stockdill: That is what the LTC is basing their decisions on.

[0:54:25] Planner Stockdill: So that is the standard that is the maximum is for.

[0:54:29] Planner Stockdill: And again, it does state that permits may limit the guests.

[0:54:33] Planner Stockdill: So it does give the discretion to the LTC

[0:54:36] Planner Stockdill: to consider applications that have another maximum,

[0:54:41] Planner Stockdill: but that is the standard that the LTC

[0:54:43] Planner Stockdill: has decided to set forth.

[0:54:46] Planner Stockdill: In terms of off street parking,

[0:54:48] Planner Stockdill: working originally the bylaw required two and that was increased to four at the previous

[0:54:56] Planner Stockdill: LTC meeting and I may turn that back to the LTC to address why that why they'd like to see the

[0:55:04] Planner Stockdill: number move from two to four or why it was moved from two to four.

[0:55:09] Voice 11: Yeah I can first to Peter's

[0:55:12] Voice 11: comment about confusion it is confusing it's I had to spend quite a bit of time going back and

[0:55:20] Voice 11: forth between our OCP and what was written and what was proposed and what we're changing

[0:55:24] Voice 11: and then trying to compare them all to what I've heard from and on different conversations and

[0:55:30] Voice 11: through emails with constituents so I think what what we should try and keep in mind here is what

[0:55:37] Voice 11: is going to public hearing a lot of those items were left in it for discussion only there is some

[0:55:45] Voice 11: amendments that I certainly plan to make and I'm sure trustee Thorne will make

[0:55:49] Voice 11: after reconsidering this proposed bylaw and also from what we've heard from from

[0:55:54] Voice 11: everybody so there will be some other changes and other changes that we

[0:55:58] Voice 11: weren't sure about we've left in so we can get some guidance from people as far

[0:56:04] Voice 11: as the parking that you're speaking about provision in the case of someone

[0:56:12] Voice 11: on operating a bed and breakfast where the owners may be where will be on site

[0:56:18] Voice 11: and that they have more guests showing up with additional cars we have a

[0:56:25] Voice 11: policy in the that tries to avoid on street parking and so one of the

[0:56:32] Voice 11: considerations that the LTC would have at the permit would be to consider

[0:56:41] Voice 11: whether there isn't a necessity for additional parking so the what is in the

[0:56:48] Voice 11: proposed bylaw at the moment says that it is something that they can consider

[0:56:54] Voice 11: it doesn't mean that the owner has to provide or to develop for parking spaces

[0:56:59] Voice 11: it simply says that if they are going to have more guests showing up that they be

[0:57:05] Voice 11: able to demonstrate that there is ability to park for vehicles up to four

[0:57:11] Voice 11: four vehicles in there.

[0:57:12] Voice 11: And again, we did get a number of requests

[0:57:18] Voice 11: where people asked or believed that the number of guests

[0:57:21] Voice 11: should be limited.

[0:57:23] Voice 11: And so this is an attempt to put a number on that limitation

[0:57:27] Voice 11: and present it to the community for their consideration

[0:57:31] Voice 11: and their decision.

[0:57:32] Voice 11: And we'll take it all from what we hear

[0:57:35] Voice 11: at the public hearing.

[0:57:36] Voice 11: So I don't want anybody to think this is a final document

[0:57:39] Voice 11: because in my mind it certainly is not thanks uh

[0:57:44] Trustee Patrick: robert kojima i

[0:57:48] Voice 15: think i think it's just important

[0:57:49] Voice 15: to emphasize and kim did say this earlier that these are guidelines and so um a temporary use

[0:57:57] Voice 15: permit is a discretionary approval on the part of the local trust committee but in making an

[0:58:03] Voice 15: ultimate decision on approving or not approving a temporary use permit they are guided by the

[0:58:09] Voice 15: guidelines and so um the guidelines should inform a potential applicant that you know you read the

[0:58:16] Voice 15: guidelines um and if you think you can put your proposed um vacation rental will comply with all

[0:58:23] Voice 15: the guidelines that will give should give you an indication or some comfort that your application

[0:58:28] Voice 15: will be um at least viewed favorably by the local trust committee it also then if you do if the

[0:58:35] Voice 15: applicant someone does make an application then that guides the planner in giving advice to the

[0:58:39] Voice 15: local trust committee essentially it forms a bit of a checklist and you know application is

[0:58:44] Voice 15: addressed all of these guidelines are addressed them in this way and then it's guidance for the

[0:58:48] Voice 15: local trust committee in assessing the application and making a decision

[0:58:54] Voice 9: yes

[0:58:58] Voice 13: yes regarding opinions

[0:59:03] Voice 13: i should not voice those now just questions correct

[0:59:05] Trustee Patrick: these are questions at this time and

[0:59:07] Trustee Patrick: you'll have an opportunity during the public hearing to state opinion uh

[0:59:11] Voice 13: very good uh the

[0:59:12] Voice 13: then the only further thing i would make as a suggestion is that some of the language about

[0:59:19] Voice 13: these two items that we've been discussing perhaps should be reviewed to make them more

[0:59:26] Voice 13: permissive with potential restriction as opposed to restriction with potential permission

[0:59:30] Voice 13: session.

[0:59:33] Trustee Patrick: Thank you very much. I see Anne Wallace. Anne, if you take yourself off mute. Yes, I think

[0:59:44] Trustee Patrick: I've done that. Is that correct? Yes, we can hear you.

[0:59:46] Voice 4: Excellent. Hi, I'm a new owner on the island

[0:59:50] Voice 4: as of last September, so I think I possibly missed participating in the survey and just

[0:59:57] Voice 4: just trying to catch up as to what's happening.

[1:00:00] Voice 4: I know that there was a comment about 30 percent etc but could you tell me how many people responded

[1:00:06] Voice 4: to the survey what the total number of people who responded at the time was and when that was

[1:00:13] Trustee Patrick: who has that information readily available yeah

[1:00:16] Voice 11: I think we'd have to I think we'd have to get back

[1:00:18] Voice 11: to you on that Anne I certainly don't have a good hand here oh

[1:00:22] Voice 4: sure I just you know I wondered if

[1:00:24] Voice 4: it was the people responding well

[1:00:28] Voice 4: you

[1:00:28] Voice 12: know relative to the to the level of response in

[1:00:33] Voice 12: most other democratic processes including the number of people that went to the poll to elect

[1:00:39] Voice 12: um you know the government of of bc or the government of canada or you know relative to

[1:00:47] Voice 12: the number of participants in local government elections we actually had a very good response

[1:00:50] Voice 12: um we had 102 property owner responses uh and 70 percent of the respondents identified as permanent

[1:01:01] Voice 12: resident property owners okay

[1:01:04] Voice 4: that's great i just wanted some context to those comments that's all

[1:01:08] Voice 4: um and and currently we don't have a plan to to have an sdvr but as we all know the future can

[1:01:16] Voice 4: can be very uncertain and so this point of um uh you know having what currently i believe was a uh

[1:01:26] Voice 4: right removed it i understand where that comes from it just seems that um having an option to

[1:01:34] Voice 4: do something is always better than not having it or to the point that the last person made of saying

[1:01:40] Voice 4: try to make something permissive and then come back with restrictions as opposed to the other

[1:01:46] Voice 4: way around um and with that in mind i listened to the last um committee meeting i believe it was it

[1:01:53] Voice 4: was was tell or was um put on zoom and there was a comment i think i got it right that there was

[1:02:00] Voice 4: approximately 30 known stvrs on the island but that there was the concept was to actually only

[1:02:08] Voice 4: issue 20 under this new plan and I just wondered if that seems to indicate that there's a problem

[1:02:17] Voice 4: because as opposed to saying we plan on just regulating what's currently there what it seems

[1:02:25] Voice 4: to me is they're saying well let's reduce what's currently there so I just wasn't sure if I got it

[1:02:31] Voice 3: right or not well

[1:02:34] Voice 11: and if i if i can start um first um with this question about rights um it was kind

[1:02:41] Voice 11: of a local trust committee that gave the right to have an stvr in the first place and i don't

[1:02:49] Voice 11: believe that this ltc is removing that right you have a right to build a house but you still

[1:02:54] Voice 11: are required to obtain a building permit and this is essentially all we're doing in order to regulate

[1:03:01] Voice 11: against concerns that have been expressed

[1:03:06] Voice 11: about the expansion of STVRs and their impact

[1:03:10] Voice 11: that they have had on other jurisdictions.

[1:03:16] Voice 11: Employing a precautionary principle has led us to think

[1:03:20] Voice 11: that it is better now to limit a number

[1:03:25] Voice 11: and if the community wishes to expand it, it can expand it.

[1:03:29] Voice 11: However, if we don't do anything, it is much more difficult to walk backward on that number and say, well, we've got too many, it's having a greater impact, we're getting consequences that were unintended, we need to pull back.

[1:03:42] Voice 11: That makes our job and the community's job a lot more difficult.

[1:03:47] Voice 11: So I really don't want to continue on with this question about rights.

[1:03:53] Voice 11: Every right, every permit, everything is all not dissimilar to what we're doing now.

[1:03:59] Voice 11: We're only discussing about how we can regulate it.

[1:04:04] Voice 11: And that is the crux of this hearing.

[1:04:10] Voice 11: so I can

[1:04:12] Trustee Patrick: I think her question was around the numbers so there's a there is a

[1:04:17] Trustee Patrick: number an

[1:04:18] Trustee Patrick: estimated number of of current operating stvrs that would be considered grandfathered um and

[1:04:26] Voice 11: we don't know that number unfortunately chair um correct

[1:04:29] Trustee Patrick: but I'm just saying but this new one is

[1:04:31] Trustee Patrick: limited to 20 so it's 20 plus the grandfathered numbers not 20 total if that's well I think

[1:04:39] Voice 11: Yeah, I think what we're looking at, we've got in the survey, we got responses that said zero to unlimited.

[1:04:49] Voice 11: So in anywhere in a balance, we tried to come up with a number.

[1:04:53] Voice 11: Now, the number 20 did come up because we felt there was, I think there's around last count 22 operating.

[1:05:00] Voice 11: I think that's probably a little higher than that because some of them are just, we just can't find out where they're advertising.

[1:05:07] Voice 11: We don't know where they exist.

[1:05:10] Voice 11: But one thing we're considering rather than a hard number

[1:05:14] Voice 11: is a percentage of the existing homes.

[1:05:16] Voice 11: And that was asked for or that came up

[1:05:19] Voice 11: in some of the responses that it'd be a percentage

[1:05:23] Voice 11: of the total number of homes.

[1:05:24] Voice 11: And that was so that we don't have neighborhoods

[1:05:27] Voice 11: that are turned into tourist accommodation areas.

[1:05:30] Voice 11: So we're just looking at some way

[1:05:34] Voice 11: of being able to limit the numbers.

[1:05:36] Voice 11: and i think people should keep in mind one of one of the problems with airbnb that every city

[1:05:43] Voice 11: and every town has found is that it has sort of done an end run around local bylaws by introducing

[1:05:50] Voice 11: a commercial enterprise into residential areas and they that is on some aspects a real benefit

[1:05:58] Voice 11: for owners it's it's a benefit overall to the community but on the other side it can be a real

[1:06:04] Voice 11: problem for the people living within that neighborhood to have a constantly

[1:06:08] Voice 11: changing number of people that are walking into their neighborhoods so

[1:06:15] Voice 11: we're not trying to be macabre about this we're not we're not trying to be

[1:06:18] Voice 11: Machiavellian we're just trying to be as pragmatic as we can follow our ECP

[1:06:23] Voice 11: policies and and strike a balance within the confines of our OCP and with and

[1:06:31] Voice 11: and try and obtain some acceptance by the community.

[1:06:35] Voice 4: And I fully understand that.

[1:06:37] Voice 4: I was just sort of querying

[1:06:40] Voice 4: and I would like clarification if that,

[1:06:43] Voice 4: that those numbers were in addition to those

[1:06:47] Voice 4: who were grandfathered in

[1:06:48] Voice 4: or whether that was going to be the total

[1:06:50] Voice 4: because that was a misunderstanding that I had.

[1:06:52] Voice 4: It's addition too.

[1:06:54] Voice 4: I

[1:06:54] Voice 11: think what we'll do is we've kind of left it as it is

[1:06:58] Voice 11: to hear people in the public hearing get those views and then we'll decide which way to go after.

[1:07:04] Voice 4: I just have one small last comment and it sort of came down to my husband and I were discussing

[1:07:10] Voice 4: SDVRs and you know impacts and what that might look like and I guess I did query whether it

[1:07:16] Voice 4: would be important to differentiate between daily rentals versus weekly rentals. I think that if

[1:07:23] Voice 4: someone comes for a week they're going to have a very different attitude and impact on the island

[1:07:29] Voice 4: and the community than if they're just there for a day or possibly a weekend and um so just wanted

[1:07:36] Voice 4: to ask if that had been discussed at all that's it for me thanks okay all

[1:07:41] Trustee Patrick: right thank you very much

[1:07:42] Trustee Patrick: um i see uh jane take yourself off newton thank

[1:07:49] Voice 5: you um just a couple questions well a few questions

[1:07:52] Voice 5: and so just to follow up on the discussion about the temporary use permits three years up to six

[1:07:59] Voice 5: years just for clarification a temporary use permit it can be for up to three years there's

[1:08:06] Voice 5: no guarantee that a permit would be granted for three years and so it could be as short as one

[1:08:13] Voice 5: year i have seen many for one year particularly lately on north pender dealing with stvr so

[1:08:18] Voice 5: So just wanted to be clear, is that not correct

[1:08:22] Voice 5: that that is a maximum,

[1:08:24] Voice 5: but it certainly could be less than that time?

[1:08:26] Voice 5: Correct, it is up to three years.

[1:08:28] Voice 5: At the discretion of the trustees?

[1:08:30] Voice 5: That's correct.

[1:08:31] Voice 5: Okay, thank you.

[1:08:33] Voice 5: In terms of Cameron's discussion about the OCP

[1:08:36] Voice 5: and not wanting to make changes to the OCP

[1:08:39] Voice 5: and talked about regulations,

[1:08:41] Voice 5: well, I think I'm not clear what Cameron is saying

[1:08:45] Voice 5: because our ocp directs uh it's actually prescriptive and it tells us that we should

[1:08:52] Voice 5: should allow for um short-term rentals in our bylaws so basically what it's saying are

[1:08:59] Voice 5: regulations that you you um you have those regulations the regulations we do have

[1:09:08] Voice 5: uh cameron i'm not sure what but we do have regulations but i think the regulations you're

[1:09:12] Voice 5: talking about Cameron are not the land use bylaw because the temporary use permit guidelines are

[1:09:19] Voice 5: the OCP they are not in the land use bylaw is that correct?

[1:09:23] Voice 12: Well well just to maybe to be clear if I

[1:09:27] Voice 12: was unclear I didn't say that I didn't think there should not be any changes to the OCP as it related

[1:09:33] Voice 12: to this topic what I did say is I didn't want I didn't believe unless somebody could prove to me

[1:09:38] Voice 12: otherwise, why references to SDVR should be omitted or deleted from the OCP. I thought that

[1:09:47] Voice 12: the language that is in there, perhaps subject to some amendments, made sense. And again,

[1:09:54] Voice 12: I referenced the term that's in there right now under 3.1.2E subclause 2, which says short-term

[1:10:03] Voice 12: rental of dwellings may be allowed subject to regulation. And I think that to me makes

[1:10:11] Voice 12: imminent sense. And what we're proposing today is consistent, in my view, with that section

[1:10:20] Voice 12: of the OCP.

[1:10:22] Voice 3: Just for clarification, it's subject to regulation. Regulation means you implement the policy

[1:10:29] Voice 3: of the OCP through regulation,

[1:10:31] Voice 3: which means the land use bylaw, is that not correct?

[1:10:34] Voice 12: Well, for sure.

[1:10:35] Voice 12: I mean, OCPs are guiding documents,

[1:10:39] Voice 12: which are more policy driven.

[1:10:42] Voice 12: The regulations are generally in a land use bylaw.

[1:10:46] Voice 12: The regulations are intended to give more legal

[1:10:49] Voice 12: or regulatory effect to the aspirations in the OCP.

[1:10:52] Voice 12: So that's why I believe there's obviously

[1:10:55] Voice 12: a cohesive approach that we're taking here which would be which would be that you would that you

[1:11:03] Voice 12: would remove the the sections of the LUB which which under which they were a form of home-based

[1:11:13] Voice 12: business and that they would be regulated through a TUP so you know maybe staff can can can can

[1:11:24] Voice 12: speak further to the to the legal uh uh to to the legal structure and if there's if there's

[1:11:30] Voice 12: something that we're missing here but i i'm not sure i get your point well

[1:11:34] Voice 3: maybe if i can clarify

[1:11:35] Voice 3: so once it's in regulation so our land use bylaw we can all look at the land use bylaw and we can

[1:11:41] Voice 3: clearly see what is permitted and not permitted currently it's clear that short-term vacation

[1:11:46] Voice 3: rentals are permitted so if you're talking about regulation that's where um is it not clear that

[1:11:53] Voice 3: that we could also add to those regulations.

[1:11:55] Voice 3: We do have some regulations

[1:11:56] Voice 3: of dealing with short-term rent is minimal,

[1:11:59] Voice 3: but we could add to those, for instance,

[1:12:01] Voice 3: if there was to be a restriction on numbers,

[1:12:03] Voice 3: those could easily go into the regulations

[1:12:06] Voice 3: as opposed to a temporary use permit process

[1:12:10] Voice 3: which is not part of our bylaw, our land use bylaw.

[1:12:14] Voice 3: That is discretionary.

[1:12:15] Voice 3: When it's in the regulation,

[1:12:17] Voice 3: everybody is clear as to what's permitted.

[1:12:19] Voice 3: So there is no involvement of the trustees

[1:12:22] Voice 3: in terms of making decisions there's no staff time involved in terms of doing applications and all

[1:12:28] Voice 3: that sort of thing where it's so the regulation process makes it a much simpler and transparent

[1:12:32] Voice 3: process as to what's proposed or what can be happening on a property and in terms of

[1:12:40] Voice 3: TUPs I know one of the staff said they're just guidelines and if it goes that way

[1:12:46] Voice 3: an applicant has some idea of uh what is required um well i can certainly say in terms of the number

[1:12:55] Voice 3: of days that uh an applicant might uh might be allowed to rent in the five month period between

[1:13:03] Voice 3: may and september there are no numbers given and it's it's that if the applicant's best guess as

[1:13:09] Voice 3: to what you might permit i know you started out with 30 days and uh there was some discussion

[1:13:14] Voice 3: meeting that I attended that maybe one of you thought that was a little too restrictive but

[1:13:19] Voice 3: that's that's not guideline uh an adequate guideline and to make somebody if you are to

[1:13:25] Voice 3: continue on the TEP process that is really quite unfair and unclear to an applicant whereas the

[1:13:31] Voice 3: regulations but it's a clear process on land use pilot it's black and white there's no discretionary

[1:13:38] Voice 3: power and if there are issues that need to be discussed with vacation rentals it seems to me

[1:13:43] Voice 3: that would be the best place to add the process to the regulations rather than temporary use

[1:13:50] Voice 3: permits.

[1:13:51] Trustee Patrick: I think we're kind of crossing into the public hearing statement there, Jane. Okay, sorry.

[1:13:56] Voice 3: Can

[1:13:56] Trustee Patrick: I just ask one more question?

[1:13:57] Voice 3: And this is a process, I guess. If once, and maybe it belongs

[1:14:02] Voice 3: in the public hearing section, maybe, but maybe you can clarify for me, Chair Patrick, but if there

[1:14:08] Voice 3: There are to be a number of changes to the proposed bylaws

[1:14:12] Voice 3: that's under consideration today.

[1:14:16] Voice 3: And I don't know where we cross over to the point

[1:14:19] Voice 3: that they would be substantial changes.

[1:14:21] Voice 3: I assume that this bylaw that there would,

[1:14:25] Voice 3: if the trustees would decide that

[1:14:27] Voice 3: the changes are substantial

[1:14:29] Voice 3: and we would need to go through

[1:14:30] Voice 3: another public hearing process

[1:14:32] Voice 3: once they've come to some decision on the changes

[1:14:35] Voice 3: is and we present again to the community what's being proposed. Would that be the correct time to

[1:14:43] Trustee Patrick: ask this? I think you're asking process question if I hear you correct. So when we debate later

[1:14:53] Trustee Patrick: today if we choose to then if you know we would be looking to staff if we make substantial changes or

[1:15:01] Trustee Patrick: or what that would be that would trigger it.

[1:15:03] Trustee Patrick: But it's too early to have that conversation

[1:15:06] Trustee Patrick: if that's an issue.

[1:15:08] Trustee Patrick: Thank you.

[1:15:09] Voice 11: If I could just respond to Ms. Perch's comments

[1:15:13] Voice 11: about regulations, I understand what she's saying,

[1:15:16] Voice 11: but one of the disadvantages about regulations

[1:15:18] Voice 11: when she says black and white

[1:15:20] Voice 11: is that it has no flexibility.

[1:15:22] Voice 11: And I think if we have guidelines in place

[1:15:26] Voice 11: and a process in place that can deal site specifically

[1:15:30] Voice 11: with certain areas, then I think it's a far more pragmatic approach. Certainly one limitation may

[1:15:37] Voice 11: be applicable in one neighborhood and not so applicable in a second neighborhood. So I think

[1:15:45] Voice 11: this method definitely gives us some flexibility and allows more input from the adjacent property

[1:15:51] Voice 11: property owners to determine how they see what is going on and voice their concerns

[1:15:59] Voice 11: about what impacts that they may feel may come up.

[1:16:03] Voice 11: So I agree with you as far as the regulations is concerned.

[1:16:07] Voice 11: I just think this approach will give us a little more flexibility and be a little more

[1:16:11] Voice 11: open to direct conversations with the immediate property owners.

[1:16:20] Trustee Patrick: Okay, Jane, you can also state that opinion in the public hearing if you wish.

[1:16:26] Trustee Patrick: Any other questions, Jane?

[1:16:28] Trustee Patrick: No, thank you.

[1:16:29] Trustee Patrick: All right, thank you.

[1:16:30] Trustee Patrick: I see Donna Spaulding is asking a second time.

[1:16:35] Trustee Patrick: Donna?

[1:16:35] Voice 20: So just two

[1:16:37] Voice 20: quick questions, Chair Patrick, sorry, and I'm still a little confused on

[1:16:41] Voice 20: this how many there may, could, might be.

[1:16:45] Voice 20: You know, we don't know how many there are, as our trustees have indicated.

[1:16:54] Voice 20: And so even if you were to, you know, pick a percentage, but there was 10% of the island, you know, we're pretty much there.

[1:17:03] Voice 20: So I'm unclear on whether the vision is that temporary use permits could, was there any point in applying for a temporary use permit if we have already reached the limitation?

[1:17:15] Voice 20: even on a percentage basis of what, you know, we think but aren't exactly clear on would be.

[1:17:22] Voice 20: So that's my first question. My second question is, staff made, and I have heard this before,

[1:17:30] Voice 20: reference to the idea that an application for a temporary use permit costs this much money

[1:17:35] Voice 20: because it would need to be advertised in a newspaper. And I know that we've had this

[1:17:42] Voice 20: conversation before and I would ask our trustees and staff, there is no South Pender or even Pender

[1:17:55] Voice 20: newspaper for that matter. Not everybody subscribes to the Victoria Times Colonist

[1:18:02] Voice 20: and I think that, you know, there needs to be some clarification and some

[1:18:09] Voice 20: definition around that's that's just my mind not not exactly um the be all in the end all

[1:18:17] Trustee Patrick: actually don i have some good news for you um uh every year uh the islands trust uh submits um

[1:18:25] Trustee Patrick: requests or for changes to law through the uh ubcm the union of bc municipalities and this year we

[1:18:34] Trustee Patrick: did specifically raise this issue we are obligated under the local government act to publish in

[1:18:39] Trustee Patrick: in papers like the driftwood that is required by the local government act I forget the term for

[1:18:44] Trustee Patrick: that style of paper so we've actually raised a resolution asking that the government recognize

[1:18:50] Trustee Patrick: that the world doesn't work this way anymore and that we'd like to modify that and have the

[1:18:55] Trustee Patrick: rights expanded to have appropriate advertisement to these small rural communities that work for

[1:19:02] Trustee Patrick: the for the people thank

[1:19:04] Voice 20: you chair Patrick I see that as a step in the right direction but I think

[1:19:07] Voice 20: I think that we do have a community hall.

[1:19:10] Voice 20: They do have a bulletin board.

[1:19:12] Voice 20: We do have a chamber of commerce.

[1:19:13] Voice 20: They have bulletin board.

[1:19:15] Voice 20: I think that we have a fire hall on South Pender

[1:19:17] Voice 20: that has a bulletin board.

[1:19:19] Voice 20: Not saying that this has to be the work around

[1:19:25] Voice 20: for anything that you're required under law or regulation,

[1:19:28] Voice 20: but that these are things

[1:19:31] Trustee Patrick: that should

[1:19:32] Voice 20: be considered.

[1:19:33] Voice 20: Yes.

[1:19:34] Trustee Patrick: Thank you.

[1:19:35] Trustee Patrick: Thank you, Donna. Good reminder. All right. I see Mariette again. Mariette, take yourself off mute.

[1:19:52] Trustee Patrick: You're still muted. Mariette, if you wish to speak to us, you'll need to take yourself off of mute.

[1:20:07] Trustee Patrick: I think you were able to do that before.

[1:20:10] Trustee Patrick: Can you hear me?

[1:20:11] Trustee Patrick: Yes, now we can hear you.

[1:20:13] Voice 18: Okay. First of all, I wanted to say that when Jane was speaking, and when one other person was

[1:20:19] Voice 18: speaking they were there um it was almost impossible to hear what they were saying

[1:20:24] Voice 18: and I believe a few people have been cut out completely or more than a few um but to move

[1:20:31] Voice 18: on to my question my question is basically a repeat of of Donna's question I haven't heard

[1:20:39] Voice 18: an answer to it yet and and that's why are we introducing something that's so arbitrary that

[1:20:49] Voice 18: that basically the message to people is that three people are going to make a decision.

[1:20:56] Voice 18: So what becomes guidelines is loose in both directions.

[1:21:01] Voice 18: If it's so ambiguous, so arbitrary, it basically is permission to the local trust committee to say yay or nay, those three people.

[1:21:12] Voice 18: and you know Steve commented on it being well that would allow it for the particular neighborhoods

[1:21:21] Voice 18: we don't want people to start policing their neighbors that closely I don't think and there

[1:21:28] Voice 18: hasn't been any problem so again my question is a repeat of Donna's and I might be framing it a bit

[1:21:36] Voice 18: differently but why why the need for something that's so arbitrary why change it at all and

[1:21:44] Voice 18: and if the wording the other trustee sorry Mr. Thorne I think it was commented well these are

[1:21:51] Voice 18: just guidelines these are just guidelines well then why if there's no there's been no complaint

[1:22:00] Voice 18: of any kind none

[1:22:02] Trustee Patrick: of my again Mariette I think I think trustee Thorne wants to answer your question

[1:22:05] Trustee Patrick: but I think these are this is sort of a public hearing statement that uh that you're you're

[1:22:09] Trustee Patrick: making so why

[1:22:10] Voice 18: is it so arbitrary but

[1:22:12] Trustee Patrick: uh trustee Thorne did you want to

[1:22:14] Voice 12: answer maybe just just

[1:22:16] Voice 12: maybe to one of the comments about why three people are making decisions um you know that's

[1:22:21] Voice 12: that's the system of government that's set up here on on the uh in the islands trust under

[1:22:26] Voice 12: under the islands trust act um decisions are made whether it's on this topic or whether it's on a

[1:22:31] Voice 12: rezoning or or on a variance it's it's three people that make the decision and uh you know

[1:22:37] Voice 12: as opposed to other forms of government have have more people to make decisions but

[1:22:41] Voice 12: um we make all decisions as as three people well

[1:22:45] Voice 18: actually that wasn't quite um mr thorn that wasn't

[1:22:49] Voice 18: quite what i was focusing on you you might be making the decision about whether or not to

[1:22:54] Voice 18: pass the bylaw but i'm talking about when the regulation is enforced the in the enforcement

[1:23:00] Voice 18: of it so somebody makes an application and three people are then deciding based on arbitrary

[1:23:06] Voice 18: guidelines whether one person or their neighbor gets the permit or not

[1:23:13] Voice 12: well

[1:23:14] Voice 18: yeah

[1:23:15] Voice 12: yeah i know i

[1:23:16] Voice 18: mean the level of governance that's the level of enforcement it's like you're not just becoming the

[1:23:22] Voice 18: people making the bylaws or making the laws or the reforming the laws you're becoming also the

[1:23:29] Voice 18: bylaw enforcement officers well

[1:23:32] Voice 12: i'm not sure yeah you know good thank you for that and i don't think

[1:23:36] Voice 12: we're becoming the bylaw enforcement officer but there is a policy uh that would be developed the

[1:23:42] Voice 12: tup guidelines i guess is a form of a policy that would be developed and then uh we would be making

[1:23:47] Voice 12: decisions in respect of specific applications that that come before us where that applicant has

[1:23:55] Voice 12: as purported to have taken into consideration the guidelines and how they frame their submission.

[1:24:02] Voice 12: So, you know, it's there, I guess, there's always in any time human beings are making decisions

[1:24:10] Voice 12: in this realm, there's always, I guess, some degree of subjectivity. I mean, if a variance

[1:24:14] Voice 12: comes before government, and I've been involved on both sides of the table on those,

[1:24:20] Voice 12: people take into account the the the the pros and cons of why a variance for height or a setback

[1:24:29] Voice 12: variance so you know governments make policies by which they then um you know have an established

[1:24:35] Voice 12: um you know transparent as possible uh set of guidelines that they use to make decisions and

[1:24:42] Voice 12: then subsequently decisions come before them where where they have to measure the application

[1:24:47] Voice 12: against the guidelines. So I don't think it's really that novel of an idea. I mean,

[1:24:51] Voice 12: we're doing the best we can with the tools that we have. I mean, you know, a lot of people have

[1:24:57] Voice 12: said, well, why a TUP? And you may or may not know this, but we as trustees have a paucity of

[1:25:08] Voice 12: tools at our disposal, unlike local governments. We can't issue licenses. I mean, that might be

[1:25:14] Voice 12: an easier way i mean to to comments from jane and others about about just you know more absolutely

[1:25:20] Voice 12: absolute clarity and that that being there in the in the in the land use bylaw they're the great

[1:25:26] Voice 12: suggestions but we don't have the ability to to exercise the powers that would that would enable

[1:25:32] Voice 12: that to you know that would provide that clarity and and simply be a matter of issuing a license so

[1:25:38] Voice 12: if somebody can lobby the provincial government to give us additional powers i would welcome that

[1:25:42] Voice 12: Okay,

[1:25:43] Voice 18: that's a little bit off base, but I guess the other way of framing the question to you then

[1:25:49] Voice 18: is, is there a lawyer amongst the people participating today, is my question. And

[1:25:58] Voice 18: secondly, my understanding is that any bylaw, any law or bylaw is unenforceable to the extent that

[1:26:06] Voice 18: it's vague and arbitrary so it's not a question of it being crystal clear but there's a long

[1:26:14] Voice 18: distance between being totally vague and totally arbitrary and being crystal clear there's a there's

[1:26:21] Voice 18: a whole range in there so how clear are we going to be before and and how much debate is there going

[1:26:29] Voice 18: to happen prior after the revisions are made that will result in the in the ultimate bylaw because

[1:26:39] Voice 18: right now what we're talking about is very very very loose criteria some things that look like

[1:26:46] Voice 18: prohibition some things that look like limitations and some things that look like restrictions but

[1:26:53] Voice 18: they're all very arbitrary okay

[1:26:55] Trustee Patrick: marietta i think you really are moving into the public hearing

[1:26:58] Trustee Patrick: statement and I and I don't we

[1:27:00] Voice 18: can ask the planners to comment on the legalities well

[1:27:09] Voice 18: is one of the planners a lawyer because we shouldn't be asking for legal advice from

[1:27:14] Voice 18: somebody who's a planner they're not that's would be there they would be practicing law I believe if

[1:27:21] Voice 18: they made legal advice comments?

[1:27:24] Trustee Patrick: I think it's the tool, the temporary use permit of what it is,

[1:27:29] Trustee Patrick: and I don't know if that would help clarify your answer of what exactly a temporary use permit is

[1:27:35] Trustee Patrick: and how it is implemented, but I think Planner Stockdale had touched on that in her presentation.

[1:27:44] Voice 18: Okay, so I trust then that you're going to explain to us who has checked the legalities of

[1:27:52] Voice 18: of this, the restrictions that are being proposed

[1:27:55] Voice 18: before they're put in front of us as a community.

[1:28:00] Voice 12: Would it be fair to say that we, I mean, we do have,

[1:28:03] Voice 12: we do retain the services of legal counsel

[1:28:06] Voice 12: as a government body and certainly I would have,

[1:28:10] Voice 12: I mean, and again, the other thing to bear in mind

[1:28:13] Voice 12: is that we're not necessarily reinventing the wheel here.

[1:28:18] Voice 12: There are other islands that have come before us

[1:28:21] Voice 12: that have used TUPs for STVRs.

[1:28:27] Voice 12: We happened to have been a very,

[1:28:31] Voice 12: we basically had no regulations at all around STVRs

[1:28:38] Voice 12: prior to the end of December of 2019.

[1:28:41] Voice 12: And we started looking at what other communities had done.

[1:28:44] Voice 12: I think Salt Spring perhaps prohibits them

[1:28:48] Voice 12: in their entirety.

[1:28:49] Voice 12: so try to try to try to take a balanced approach look to see what other communities have done

[1:28:55] Voice 12: and the tup process based on as i mentioned before the absence of a licensing regime here

[1:29:01] Voice 12: was deemed to be the best of approach that that could that we could utilize and and again i you

[1:29:09] Voice 12: know i'll let a planner stockdale or or robert speak to it but but the tup i has been used uh

[1:29:15] Voice 12: for a period of time on on some of the other islands so maybe you could speak to how that

[1:29:20] Voice 12: works on those islands sure

[1:29:23] Voice 15: thank you um so yeah temporary use permits are not a unique tool to

[1:29:28] Voice 15: south pender certainly um they are a local government tool that other local trust committees

[1:29:33] Voice 15: use um and other local governments throughout british columbia both municipalities and regional

[1:29:39] Voice 15: districts use temporary use permits um it's a fairly common tool um like trustee thorne said

[1:29:44] Voice 15: we have access to legal counsel in which we avail ourselves of that when needed and just within the

[1:29:52] Voice 15: southern gulf islands region galliano and north pender and saturn all have temporary use

[1:30:00] Voice 15: permit guidelines established for short-term vacation rentals and on um north pender and

[1:30:07] Voice 15: galliano they've been using temporary use permits for um for vacation rentals for a number of years

[1:30:12] Voice 15: now and both of those local trust committees just in the last year or so um have reviewed those

[1:30:19] Voice 15: guidelines and then making in the process of making further amendments to them so it's a pretty

[1:30:23] Voice 15: widely established well-known tool and in in the islands trust and uh in local governments

[1:30:29] Voice 15: throughout British Columbia?

[1:30:30] Voice 18: The answer is no. These particular guidelines for South Pender as

[1:30:36] Voice 18: proposed have not been reviewed by a lawyer. These particular ones.

[1:30:41] Voice 15: Well the guidelines are very

[1:30:42] Voice 15: similar to other guidelines throughout the Allens Trust area so if we

[1:30:47] Voice 15: felt we needed legal advice

[1:30:48] Voice 15: we could get it. You're

[1:30:52] Voice 11: certainly welcome to obtain legal advice yourself Mariette if you

[1:30:56] Voice 11: feel is necessary I mean I

[1:30:58] Trustee Patrick: think I think you just make these statements in the public hearing and

[1:31:01] Trustee Patrick: and do you have any other questions though at this point and because I think moving into the

[1:31:11] Trustee Patrick: public hearing is probably going to make sense at this point are there anyone else that has

[1:31:16] Trustee Patrick: questions about the bylaws specifically about what they are and how they're done I see you're back

[1:31:25] Trustee Patrick: back again. A question about the bylaw.

[1:31:29] Voice 20: Yes, Chair Patrick, and I'm sorry to keep coming back, but

[1:31:33] Voice 20: I don't understand. We are putting in some guidelines for temporary use permits,

[1:31:43] Voice 20: and correct me, this is my question. I believe that this is in place of

[1:31:52] Voice 20: of stating that this is something that is actually a use

[1:31:56] Voice 20: because we've removed it completely from our OCP

[1:31:59] Voice 20: and we've removed it from permitted uses

[1:32:02] Voice 20: in our land use bylaw.

[1:32:04] Voice 20: Am I incorrect?

[1:32:09] Voice 12: I don't think we've made any decisions yet.

[1:32:11] Voice 12: So I'm not sure we've removed it from our OCP.

[1:32:17] Voice 20: Trustee Thorne, with respect, I've reviewed the bylaws.

[1:32:21] Voice 20: I've compared them to the OCP.

[1:32:23] Voice 20: and what I see as the parts that are being removed remove all the references to STVRs

[1:32:31] Voice 20: out of the OCP. Perhaps Planner Stockdale or Robert Kojima could correct me if I'm totally

[1:32:38] Voice 20: incorrect.

[1:32:39] Planner Stockdill: If I may so bylaw 120 will from the land use bylaw will remove short-term vacation

[1:32:46] Planner Stockdill: rental as a permitted home business. Bylaw 119 removes those enabling policies that support

[1:32:56] Planner Stockdill: regulating short-term vacation rentals in the land use bylaw. It also adds specific guidelines

[1:33:04] Planner Stockdill: to the temporary use permit section related to short-term vacation rental. What that means is

[1:33:10] Planner Stockdill: if these two bylaws are adopted the options for property owners are to apply for a temporary use

[1:33:18] Planner Stockdill: permit in order to have a short-term vacation rental use unless they have they were legally

[1:33:26] Planner Stockdill: operating prior to the adoption of bylaw 120. But again

[1:33:33] Voice 20: correct me if I'm wrong nowhere in the OCP

[1:33:36] Voice 20: or in the land use bylaw is a short-term vacation rental recognized as something regardless of

[1:33:45] Voice 20: whether it's in a cottage or in a home as a use in those two documents. It's

[1:33:53] Voice 20: in the temporary

[1:33:53] Planner Stockdill: permit section.

[1:33:55] Voice 20: I get that if you get a temporary permit then you can have then supposedly you can

[1:34:00] Voice 20: have one but our ocp and our and our land use bylaw make no reference to the ability for you

[1:34:06] Voice 20: to have one of those in anywhere on south pender island i think donna again i think you're kind of

[1:34:14] Voice 20: crossing into the public hearing i'm trying i apologize chair pack trying to get some

[1:34:19] Voice 20: clarification on what the bylaws are actually saying as they are stated as is as

[1:34:26] Voice 11: a draft these

[1:34:27] Voice 11: These are draft bylaws being proposed, Donna.

[1:34:29] Voice 11: They're not bylaws.

[1:34:31] Voice 11: They're just drafts, okay?

[1:34:33] Voice 11: So we're

[1:34:34] Voice 20: going to go to the hearing.

[1:34:35] Voice 11: We listen

[1:34:35] Voice 20: to what you've got to say.

[1:34:37] Voice 20: I

[1:34:37] Voice 11: get that, Trustee Wright, but

[1:34:37] Voice 20: they've had first reading.

[1:34:39] Voice 11: We have to give it first reading.

[1:34:42] Voice 11: Otherwise, we can't talk about it.

[1:34:44] Voice 11: That just recognizes that we have something to talk about.

[1:34:47] Voice 11: It's a legal requirement.

[1:34:48] Voice 11: It has nothing to do with our direction or that we've made up our mind.

[1:34:52] Voice 11: It's simply a draft for you to comment on.

[1:34:55] Voice 11: and the sooner we get to a public hearing you can make those comments and

[1:34:58] Voice 11: we can make a decision based on what we hear.

[1:35:01] Planner Stockdill: And the LTC has the ability to

[1:35:03] Planner Stockdill: amend these bylaws also as you've heard from both trustees it sounds like there

[1:35:08] Planner Stockdill: are amendments coming so they are listening to these comments and it

[1:35:12] Planner Stockdill: sounds as though that there will be amendments to the official community

[1:35:15] Planner Stockdill: plan with regards to policies around shortification rentals. Does that help

[1:35:24] Trustee Patrick: Donna. Great, thank you. I see, thank you Donna. I see Alma is going to try again. Let's see if Alma

[1:35:35] Trustee Patrick: has her microphone or her audio working. Alma, oh Alma, you don't have the audio. You're gonna

[1:35:53] Voice 11: have to run next door, Alma. This isn't working.

[1:36:04] Trustee Patrick: Alma, is that you? I see maybe that's Steve

[1:36:14] Trustee Patrick: getting a phone call from elma i don't know wait a moment here steve was that elma no

[1:36:34] Trustee Patrick: hey pay attention

[1:36:38] Trustee Patrick: um i don't know what to do with elma we're about to go into the um

[1:36:46] Trustee Patrick: if

[1:36:47] Voice 11: elma if elma can send me an email or cameron an email we can we'll we're happy to read it out

[1:36:52] Voice 11: HAB-Danny Teodoru- To read it out or yeah

[1:36:54] Voice 12: can again is Elma not able to use a telephone to get in.

[1:36:59] Voice 12: HAB-Masyn Moyer-

[1:36:59] Trustee Patrick: Yes, there's a phone. That's what we put up on the screen. There is a phone numbers that you can call in. There is one call in person here that is on that is on a phone.

[1:37:10] Trustee Patrick: HAB-Masyn Moyer- But I don't, I don't know.

[1:37:14] Voice 2: HAB-Charlotte Pitts,

[1:37:14] Voice 2: There's another Patrick. There's another 604 number. Do you want me to just enable it just

[1:37:18] Voice 2: Yeah,

[1:37:18] Trustee Patrick: enable that and see if it's Alma. It's star nine, star six to get off. Ah, hello?

[1:37:30] Trustee Patrick: They're there.

[1:37:31] Trustee Patrick: Hello?

[1:37:32] Trustee Patrick: Hello, is this Alma?

[1:37:34] Trustee Patrick: Yes.

[1:37:35] Trustee Patrick: Oh, Alma, we're so happy

[1:37:38] Trustee Patrick: to hear your voice.

[1:37:40] Voice 17: Well, all I wanted to ask was why the letter that I sent for the meeting was not posted.

[1:37:49] Voice 17: And I know it was received because Steve did give me an answer last night about something,

[1:37:55] Voice 17: and so it's not on the list.

[1:37:57] Voice 17: So it's a simple

[1:37:58] Voice 17: question, but I have had trouble.

[1:38:01] Voice 17: I'm on my cell phone now.

[1:38:02] Voice 17: Is it not in the public hearing binder?

[1:38:05] Voice 17: I

[1:38:05] Voice 11: believe it has been posted.

[1:38:06] Voice 17: No, it's not.

[1:38:06] Voice 17: on and

[1:38:08] Voice 12: I certainly have it too Alma I've got it right here in front of me okay so we have your

[1:38:14] Voice 3: letter anyway

[1:38:14] Trustee Patrick: we'll take that into I mean it will be considered and we'll make sure it's on the on

[1:38:18] Trustee Patrick: the record okay

[1:38:20] Voice 17: for quite a while I was um with Maple hung on her screen but I couldn't access

[1:38:26] Voice 17: I couldn't talk I couldn't do anything so anyway thank you for acknowledging that and I'll stay

[1:38:31] Voice 17: with you by both

[1:38:32] Trustee Patrick: okay we'll see your phone number here and that we are going to just about to move

[1:38:36] Trustee Patrick: into the public hearing so you have an opportunity to speak once again in the public hearing

[1:38:42] Trustee Patrick: okay is there any other questions otherwise we'll open the public hearing so because i

[1:38:46] Trustee Patrick: think a lot of you would like to to to be on record so um with that trustees are you ready

[1:38:53] Trustee Patrick: um should we open the do you need a break for a moment or go right into the public hearing what

[1:38:58] Trustee Patrick: would you like to do trustees well

[1:39:00] Voice 11: how's everybody else feel how staff feel they're okay ready to

[1:39:06] Trustee Patrick: to proceed go okay let's

[1:39:07] Voice 11: do it we

[1:39:08] Trustee Patrick: can we can always uh trustees we can always take a break

[1:39:10] Trustee Patrick: if we have to in the public hearing too so please bring it to my attention if you need to

[1:39:15] Trustee Patrick: okay i'm going to open the public hearing and warn you in advance this is a legal um requirement i

[1:39:21] Trustee Patrick: have a lot of reading to do i have to read it so um bear with me and um and i appreciate your

[1:39:27] Trustee Patrick: patience so uh the public hearing for the proposed bylaws of 119 and 120 is now open i wish to

[1:39:34] Trustee Patrick: welcome everyone in attendance and acknowledge that we are meeting on the in the territory of

[1:39:38] Trustee Patrick: the Coast Salish peoples. My name is Trustee Laura Patrick, I am the Chair of the South Pender

[1:39:46] Trustee Patrick: Local Trust Committee and I would like to introduce again Cameron Thorne and Steve Wright

[1:39:52] Trustee Patrick: as your local trustees. We have her planning staff, we have Kim Stockville our Island Planner

[1:39:58] Trustee Patrick: and uh we have um kathy um gifford as our um uh minute taker and um so this is a this public

[1:40:09] Trustee Patrick: hearing is being convened pursuant to section 465 of the local government act in order to consider

[1:40:16] Trustee Patrick: the following proposed bylaws proposed bylaw number 119 cited as south pender island official

[1:40:23] Trustee Patrick: community plan bylaw number 107 2011 amendment number 1 2020 proposed bylaw number 120 cited

[1:40:31] Trustee Patrick: as south pender island land use bylaw number 114 2016 amendment number 1 2020 all persons who

[1:40:40] Trustee Patrick: believe that they their interest in property is affected by the proposed bylaws will be given a

[1:40:45] Trustee Patrick: reasonable opportunity to be heard or to present written submissions respecting matters contained

[1:40:51] Trustee Patrick: in the proposed bylaws those wishing to speak should commence their presentation by clearly

[1:40:57] Trustee Patrick: stating their name and address members the local trust committee may if they wish ask questions

[1:41:03] Trustee Patrick: of you following your presentation however the main function of the local trust committee members

[1:41:09] Trustee Patrick: is to listen to the views of the public it is not the function of the committee members to debate

[1:41:14] Trustee Patrick: the merits of the proposed bylaws with individual citizens everyone will be given a reasonable

[1:41:19] Trustee Patrick: opportunity to be heard and none should feel discouraged from presenting his or

[1:41:24] Trustee Patrick: her views in consider and considering the proposed bylaws the local trust

[1:41:29] Trustee Patrick: committee has received documents which may influence its decisions those

[1:41:34] Trustee Patrick: documents are available for review during this hearing on our website as

[1:41:39] Trustee Patrick: indicated in the public hearing notice any person who wishes to present a

[1:41:45] Trustee Patrick: written submission to the local trust committee may do so um and uh and it must be received before

[1:41:54] Trustee Patrick: i close the hearing i'm going to um ask now at this time if you could put up that email address

[1:42:01] Trustee Patrick: maple on the screen um as well so that everybody could have it okay i believe it's a it's it's a

[1:42:13] Trustee Patrick: bit of a funny we need to come up with a word um i'm just going to pause for a moment while we get

[1:42:20] Trustee Patrick: this uh up there so you can see here in blue uh if you if you want to wish to submit a written

[1:42:28] Trustee Patrick: submission while the hearing is open it needs to be sent to um this email address it's it's

[1:42:36] Trustee Patrick: v-i-c-p-h-s-u-b at islandstrust.bc.ca and i will pause before closing the meeting and check with

[1:42:45] Trustee Patrick: staff to see if any um any submissions had been received so uh this is your only opportunity to

[1:42:53] Trustee Patrick: comment on the proposed bylaw um is during this hearing as members of the local trust committee

[1:42:59] Trustee Patrick: may not receive further submissions after close of this hearing after the public hearing has

[1:43:05] Trustee Patrick: concluded the local trust committee may without further notice make whatever decisions it deems

[1:43:10] Trustee Patrick: proper with respect to the bylaws that are the subject of this public hearing uh island planner

[1:43:17] Trustee Patrick: kim stockdale will now summarize the public hearing notice and key points of the bylaw

[1:43:21] Trustee Patrick: and referral agency responses over to you kim thank

[1:43:25] Planner Stockdill: you chair patrick uh so a copy of the

[1:43:30] Planner Stockdill: The notice was advertised in two consecutive editions of the Driftwood on February 17th

[1:43:36] Planner Stockdill: and February 24th, 2021.

[1:43:39] Planner Stockdill: All notification requirements under the Local Government Act have been completed.

[1:43:44] Planner Stockdill: There is a copy of the complete public hearing binder available during this public hearing

[1:43:50] Planner Stockdill: and it's also located on the Islands Trust website, specifically the South Pender LTC

[1:43:57] Planner Stockdill: landing website you'll see a link to the public hearing binder. As mentioned previously the

[1:44:04] Planner Stockdill: South Pender Island LTC is reviewing short-term vacation rental regulations and also the temporary

[1:44:12] Planner Stockdill: use permit guidelines as part of the LTC's top priority project. Proposed bylaw number 119

[1:44:21] Planner Stockdill: would amend the temporary use permit section in the South Pender Island OCP,

[1:44:27] Planner Stockdill: bylaw number 171-2007, in order to add new short-term vacation rental temporary use permit

[1:44:35] Planner Stockdill: guidelines and also amend policies in the OCP related to short-term vacation rentals.

[1:44:41] Planner Stockdill: Proposed bylaw number 120 would remove short-term vacation rentals as a home business use in the

[1:44:49] Planner Stockdill: south pender land use bylaw the proposed bylaw was referred to a number of agencies and first nations

[1:44:55] Planner Stockdill: for comment the only comments that the ltc received that included feedback was from the north pender

[1:45:02] Planner Stockdill: ltc which stated they approved the proposed bylaws subject to the south pender ltc reviewing the

[1:45:09] Planner Stockdill: minutes from the north pender ltc minutes from january 28 2021 that reflect the amendments to

[1:45:16] Planner Stockdill: to their short-term vacation rental by-law.

[1:45:18] Planner Stockdill: And the South Pender Island LTC did receive those minutes.

[1:45:23] Planner Stockdill: We have received to date as of 10 30 AM this morning,

[1:45:27] Planner Stockdill: 17 public submissions.

[1:45:30] Planner Stockdill: And it's back to you, Chair Patrick.

[1:45:33] Planner Stockdill: All

[1:45:33] Trustee Patrick: right, thank you, Planner Stockdale.

[1:45:35] Trustee Patrick: So submissions can be made anytime during the hearing

[1:45:41] Trustee Patrick: until the close of the hearing.

[1:45:42] Trustee Patrick: If any submissions are received during the meeting,

[1:45:45] Trustee Patrick: we will pause prior to the close to ensure that the local trust committee has had time to review

[1:45:50] Trustee Patrick: those submissions. The submission should be emailed again to this vicphsub at islandstrust.bc.ca

[1:46:01] Trustee Patrick: if you wish to put a written one. So I'm going to invite members of the public who wish to speak to

[1:46:06] Trustee Patrick: raise their hand and to state their name prior to making their comments and after the presentation

[1:46:11] Trustee Patrick: to the local trust committee the trustees may ask you a question but again the primary reason

[1:46:17] Trustee Patrick: is to listen and not debate the issues with you at the end of the hearing i'm gonna have to call

[1:46:22] Trustee Patrick: three times if there's more people it's not me just being silly but i must i'm required to ask

[1:46:27] Trustee Patrick: three times and and then i'll pause to make sure that we have received any written submissions

[1:46:33] Trustee Patrick: again same rules from the town hall apply please speak to the issues not people be respectful

[1:46:40] Trustee Patrick: And I would very much appreciate that.

[1:46:45] Trustee Patrick: So with that, oops, sorry.

[1:46:47] Trustee Patrick: I lost my list of people.

[1:46:49] Trustee Patrick: So again, just like we did on the community information meeting,

[1:46:53] Trustee Patrick: you may raise your hand.

[1:46:54] Trustee Patrick: We'll give you a chance to speak.

[1:46:56] Trustee Patrick: And we are in the public hearing.

[1:46:58] Trustee Patrick: So this is your time.

[1:47:00] Trustee Patrick: So who would like to address us?

[1:47:07] Trustee Patrick: Let's see Jane purchase hand up.

[1:47:09] Trustee Patrick: Oops.

[1:47:10] Trustee Patrick: I guess.

[1:47:10] Trustee Patrick: Yes, we'll go with Jane then.

[1:47:12] Trustee Patrick: Then on the phone.

[1:47:13] Trustee Patrick: Jane?

[1:47:18] Voice 5: Thank you. Okay, somebody has to go first. Yes, you're first. Here we go. So first of all,

[1:47:24] Voice 5: I did not write anything specifically just for submission, but I just want to go on record. I

[1:47:32] Voice 5: think my views have been clear all along that I am not in support of By-law 119 and 120.

[1:47:37] Voice 5: 2020 um i uh and in addition to that i guess i i feel that uh any uh regular any um more

[1:47:47] Voice 5: restrictions relating to short-term vacation rentals i i don't think we've ever had any

[1:47:52] Voice 5: proper study done what the requirement what the issues are they're all over the map and um i

[1:47:57] Voice 5: honestly from those of us who are in the business we've never heard of any complaints some of our

[1:48:02] Voice 5: our neighbors we don't know they don't know of any complaints so if there are to be guide some

[1:48:08] Voice 5: other process I'm happy and I did make some suggestions to the trustees in terms of adding

[1:48:13] Voice 5: to the regulations for instance there's no reason why a number of people can add be added to

[1:48:19] Voice 5: regulations number of days if that was ever going to go that way added to regulations versus temporary

[1:48:25] Voice 5: use permits. I know, Steve, you want more leeway in terms of those things, but I feel that the

[1:48:32] Voice 5: regulations could equally address many of the things that are proposed guidelines in the

[1:48:37] Voice 5: temporary use permit. And I also want to speak to this whole process because the first I became

[1:48:45] Voice 5: aware of what the trustees were proposing after the moratorium came in was I attended a meeting,

[1:48:52] Voice 5: zoom meeting in November and then at that time the trustees were reviewing proposed

[1:49:00] Voice 5: temporary use permit guidelines that came from North Pender I find that objectionable that we

[1:49:07] Voice 5: have to there was no consultation with our community we had to go outside of our community

[1:49:14] Voice 5: to start with some bylaws so that's been my whole problem with this process the public consultation

[1:49:20] Voice 5: the community consultation.

[1:49:23] Voice 5: So in terms of notice to the community,

[1:49:25] Voice 5: we had notice of this bylaw,

[1:49:28] Voice 5: these bylaws that are being proposed.

[1:49:31] Voice 5: If we subscribe to notices from the trust,

[1:49:35] Voice 5: we're the only ones who got notices.

[1:49:37] Voice 5: Those notices came to us on February 24th,

[1:49:41] Voice 5: nine days before this meeting.

[1:49:44] Voice 5: The bylaw was referred,

[1:49:46] Voice 5: the bylaws were referred to other agencies,

[1:49:48] Voice 5: 19 agencies in all.

[1:49:50] Voice 5: all, those were sent out January 14. January 19, there was a resolution without meeting

[1:49:58] Voice 5: which meant the trustees convened the meeting, passed the first reading of the bylaws. Again,

[1:50:03] Voice 5: no community involvement. And here we are now at this time, this is our first time to

[1:50:10] Voice 5: comment on something. This should have been coming from the community. It didn't have

[1:50:14] Voice 5: have to go to a by-law process to have discussion, despite what Steve says. We can have community

[1:50:21] Voice 5: information meetings. We have had community information meetings. So I actually totally

[1:50:26] Voice 5: object to this whole process. I spoke to it before in November. I was chastised by Trustee Wright

[1:50:34] Voice 5: in doing so, but I think the process is wrong. We need to involve our community in these discussions.

[1:50:41] Voice 5: We could come up with some good, probably good bylaws,

[1:50:45] Voice 5: good resolutions for all, won't keep everybody happy,

[1:50:50] Voice 5: but we are not involving our community

[1:50:52] Voice 5: and that's part of the whole problem

[1:50:54] Voice 5: with what we are seeing presented to us today.

[1:50:57] Voice 5: So that is a concern for me.

[1:51:00] Voice 5: I'm also concerned and I'd like to ask

[1:51:03] Voice 5: if there are going to be changes

[1:51:04] Voice 5: based on what the community, the trustees decide

[1:51:08] Voice 5: on terms of community input.

[1:51:10] Voice 5: But from what I'm hearing so far, to me, these changes are going to be substantial.

[1:51:14] Voice 5: So I would like the trustees to consider if they are going to make changes that they start the whole bylaw process over again and make sure our community is informed.

[1:51:24] Voice 5: It's not adequate to think that a few people who subscribe to your notices of meeting is enough to involve our whole community.

[1:51:35] Voice 5: We have mail still. Thank goodness.

[1:51:38] Voice 5: we could have a mail drop, you could put notice of meeting,

[1:51:42] Voice 5: we can't physically meet yet,

[1:51:44] Voice 5: but at least people would know that something was happening.

[1:51:47] Voice 5: I think that's why you have seen that a few of us

[1:51:51] Voice 5: have started the South Pender Community Link

[1:51:55] Voice 5: to try and get people involved

[1:51:57] Voice 5: in what the trustees are doing,

[1:51:59] Voice 5: because I don't think many people know what's going on.

[1:52:02] Voice 5: So back to you and I hope you consider that very strongly.

[1:52:05] Voice 5: Thank

[1:52:06] Trustee Patrick: you very much, Jane.

[1:52:10] Trustee Patrick: Sorry,

[1:52:10] Voice 12: Trustee Thorne.

[1:52:11] Voice 12: Just a couple of things that I wanted to maybe get staff to just comment on.

[1:52:20] Voice 12: There's been a suggestion there's been no public consultation on this.

[1:52:26] Voice 12: And I guess maybe there are some differences of interpretation about public consultation when it began.

[1:52:32] Voice 12: but we we've been talking about this for I mean we obviously had bylaw 117 that was passed in

[1:52:39] Voice 12: December of 2019 and then thereafter and maybe Robert can can speak to this I recall having some

[1:52:47] Voice 12: meetings in the time period after that there was some at the community hall before the pandemic

[1:52:53] Voice 12: took place and then there was other meetings thereafter and then there was a public there

[1:52:59] Voice 12: there was a mail out to everybody on the island

[1:53:02] Voice 12: seeking their input on STVR.

[1:53:06] Voice 12: So maybe you can speak to it

[1:53:07] Voice 12: because I would want the record to be clear

[1:53:09] Voice 12: on whether or not there's been any consultation

[1:53:10] Voice 12: on this policy, on this approach

[1:53:15] Voice 12: to how we develop regulations around STVRs.

[1:53:21] Voice 11: Can I ask, raise a point of order, Madam Chair?

[1:53:25] Trustee Patrick: Yes, you can.

[1:53:28] Voice 11: Are we allowed to provide information

[1:53:30] Voice 11: during the hearing or should we provide that information after we've heard after we've closed

[1:53:34] Voice 11: the hearing

[1:53:35] Trustee Patrick: i'm going to look to staff for advice in this moment yeah

[1:53:39] Voice 15: technically during the hearing

[1:53:41] Voice 15: um you can ask questions for clarification is what the terminology is um before we get into

[1:53:48] Voice 15: more detail after the hearing but um i mean just looking on the web page i see there was a december

[1:53:54] Voice 15: 19 there's December 2019 meeting on short-term vacation rentals so the yeah the trustee Thorne's

[1:54:02] Voice 15: correct there's been process has been going on for quite a while thank

[1:54:06] Voice 12: you okay thank you and

[1:54:08] Voice 12: chair Patrick can I ask one more this is a question I don't want to be commenting but

[1:54:14] Voice 12: one thing that that I'd like a little clarification from from Jane Perkshawn

[1:54:20] Voice 12: um um and i think it goes back to some of the questions in the in the community session about

[1:54:26] Voice 12: you know regulations being in the land use bylaw and one of her suggestions was that there be

[1:54:33] Voice 12: regulations or could could have been regulations in the land use bylaw regarding the number of

[1:54:38] Voice 12: days and i i don't know whether you know i i wasn't sure quite what that meant because right

[1:54:43] Voice 12: uh right under the under the past bylaw under the under the bylaw that existed or the the

[1:54:49] Voice 12: regulations that existed prior to bylaw 117 of course there was every home on the island could

[1:54:56] Voice 12: could operate an STVR and there was no limit to the number of days so maybe could you could you

[1:55:01] Voice 12: clarify were you thinking that there would there would be a cap on the number of days that any one

[1:55:06] Voice 12: property could could operate an STVR is that what you were suggesting?

[1:55:10] Voice 5: I'm not suggesting myself I

[1:55:12] Voice 5: don't agree with the cap but what I'm suggesting is the things that you are addressing by way of

[1:55:17] Voice 5: temporary use permit many of those could actually be addressed by regulation in our land use bylaw

[1:55:24] Voice 5: equally as well so that's all i'm suggesting and i just wanted to be clear i am talking in terms of

[1:55:30] Voice 5: the cons public consultation i'm actually talking from the day that you proposed and adopted and

[1:55:39] Voice 5: gave first reading to the bylaws we're considering today because all the consultation prior to that

[1:55:45] Voice 5: the only thing that we've had public before was basically that survey and maybe another meeting

[1:55:50] Voice 5: but it's been a long time since then and all and we did not know what was going to happen until you

[1:55:55] Voice 5: presented a temporary use permit guidelines to us as the means of going forward in terms of what

[1:56:02] Voice 5: your concerns are with vacation rentals so I'm saying what you've proposed we only knew as a

[1:56:09] Voice 5: a community that was only posted on the website February 24th despite having referrals go out to

[1:56:17] Voice 5: other agencies January 14th despite you having a resolution without meeting on January 19th

[1:56:24] Voice 5: and even despite the notices going out they went out February 17th the advertising notices

[1:56:29] Voice 5: and then finally the 24th so we're like the last ones on the on the list and yet we're the ones who

[1:56:37] Voice 5: are most affected by these bylaws. So I'm saying we need greater community consultation. And yes,

[1:56:45] Voice 5: we have limitations because of COVID, but it doesn't mean we can't have some kind of community

[1:56:51] Voice 5: consultation. In fact, I see even no need to rush these things until we can have some proper

[1:56:58] Voice 5: community meetings and which hopefully are coming soon with vaccines that we can actually meet as a

[1:57:05] Voice 5: community again and have some face-to-face discussion because this is really not adequate

[1:57:10] Voice 5: and these bylaws are going to be quite restrictive if they're passed and change the the the vibe of

[1:57:18] Voice 5: our community and that's why I'm just asking that you give consideration to holding off and

[1:57:24] Voice 5: if you are going to make changes there's no rush to get things done and give proper consideration

[1:57:30] Voice 5: to our community. Thank

[1:57:33] Trustee Patrick: you Jane. Trustee Thorne did you have a clarity question?

[1:57:38] Voice 12: So the bylaws that are before us today can you speak to how we arrived at those

[1:57:50] Voice 12: bylaws like were they created in some kind of vacuum or would it be would it

[1:57:55] Voice 12: be the case that those bylaws were an evolution of comments that have been

[1:58:02] Voice 12: in the public domain for quite a while on this island that it was fed through the various

[1:58:08] Voice 12: consultations that we've had through the comments that we had at the ltc meeting on the 29th when

[1:58:12] Voice 12: changes were made it might fair to assume that that's how we've arrived at the bylaws that are

[1:58:16] Voice 12: before us today yes

[1:58:20] Planner Stockdill: bylaws are drafted by direction from the ltc based on comments received from the

[1:58:26] Planner Stockdill: community and the uh the decisions the ltc wishes and this happened uh i believe the direction to

[1:58:33] Planner Stockdill: draft bylaws was in september and draft bylaws were presented to the ltc at the november 6 2020

[1:58:40] Planner Stockdill: ltc meeting this staff report with the draft bylaws it was is available on that agenda and

[1:58:47] Planner Stockdill: it's also available on the website so these drive draft bylaws um have been available for

[1:58:52] Planner Stockdill: the public to view for at least four months now okay

[1:58:55] Voice 12: thank you okay

[1:58:58] Trustee Patrick: thank you thank you jane i

[1:59:00] Trustee Patrick: see elma is uh we can get make her phone open there we go

[1:59:12] Voice 17: elma can we hear you okay yes okay

[1:59:15] Voice 17: finally i'm on my phone again i i'm just following up with jane because i i do agree that we could

[1:59:23] Voice 17: add regulations to the LUB and make this whole thing a lot simpler. I did state that in a letter

[1:59:32] Voice 17: that I wrote previously, and I do see that that's recorded. So I do agree with that. And then one

[1:59:39] Voice 17: more question I have for the trustees, you've set May to September as possible times for rentals.

[1:59:46] Voice 17: And I do know that tourism is much better in the shoulder season for the businesses.

[1:59:54] Voice 17: they're all looking for help with businesses and people rent more in the shoulder.

[2:00:00] Voice 17: season. Because in my particular instance, the prices are a little bit cheaper in the shoulder

[2:00:06] Voice 17: season. And there's, there's not a lot of crowding around or ferry problems or anything. So I don't

[2:00:15] Voice 17: like that limit for anybody coming to the island. I think you need to allow that to happen as it

[2:00:22] Voice 17: does and just leave the dates open so those are my two things at this point um i do agree that we

[2:00:32] Voice 17: have taken a long time to get these bylaws set up and none of us are really happy with them so

[2:00:42] Voice 17: i'm just leaving that back to the trustees now i think you've had a lot of input today so

[2:00:47] Voice 17: end of my comment. Bye.

[2:00:50] Trustee Patrick: Thank you, Alma. Trustee Thorne, you have more questions of clarity.

[2:00:54] Trustee Patrick: Yeah,

[2:00:54] Voice 12: just a question. It's a fair point that Alma raised. And actually, I did hear a similar

[2:00:59] Voice 12: question from somebody else the other day. And I think it would just be just in terms of how to

[2:01:05] Voice 12: interpret the draft provision in the TUP, which states limit the number of days in the short-term

[2:01:12] Voice 12: vacation rental period may be in use from the period of May 1st to September 30th in a calendar

[2:01:18] Voice 12: year. I guess, you know, maybe it requires some clarity. My understanding, and I'd like staff to

[2:01:24] Voice 12: comment on it, is that if there is a period of time within a calendar year where

[2:01:29] Voice 12: consideration may be given to the number of days that an SDVR could be operated, it would be

[2:01:35] Voice 12: between May 1st to September 30th. But outside of that period, there would be no consideration

[2:01:41] Voice 12: consideration given to the number of days that an STVR could operate. In other words,

[2:01:46] Voice 12: to Alma's point, that somebody could operate it literally every day if they had a TUP. Am I

[2:01:54] Voice 12: correct on that interpretation?

[2:01:59] Trustee Patrick: So just

[2:02:02] Planner Stockdill: to add some clarity, the reference to, again, I'm going

[2:02:07] Planner Stockdill: going to read the whole section out so it's clear so there's more context. So guideline L2 as it's

[2:02:14] Planner Stockdill: stated in proposed bottle number 119 says in addition to any other conditions the LTC

[2:02:21] Planner Stockdill: may consider appropriate in some situations the permit may limit the days limit the number of

[2:02:28] Planner Stockdill: days a short-term vacation rental may be in use for a period of May 1st to September 30th

[2:02:33] Planner Stockdill: in a calendar year and originally this was put in there as this was a guideline originally

[2:02:41] Planner Stockdill: drafted by the North Pender LTC as there was a desire to limit the number of days to three

[2:02:47] Planner Stockdill: in the during the summer months. Both LTCs also stated that they wanted similar

[2:02:55] Planner Stockdill: guidelines in their temporary use permit section so this is where that's coming from and at the

[2:03:00] Planner Stockdill: the previous meeting, the South Pender LTC actually struck out that reference to 30 days.

[2:03:07] Planner Stockdill: So what this does is this guideline turns the mind to the LTC when you're considering

[2:03:12] Planner Stockdill: the application. Is there a reason for the LTC to regulate during that period? Again,

[2:03:22] Planner Stockdill: at the end of that section, there's also an additional guideline that states that the LTC

[2:03:28] Planner Stockdill: see may establish dates during which the use may occur so um potentially and this is something that

[2:03:36] Planner Stockdill: the staff and ltc can discuss um later on in the agenda when we're discussing the stvr project and

[2:03:44] Planner Stockdill: amending the bylaws is perhaps removing um l pardon me three as um it's kind of reiterated

[2:03:53] Planner Stockdill: twice in that section now i'm not sure if i've answered your question or not

[2:03:59] Voice 12: I mean, in fairness to Alma and to the other person that reached out to me, you know, somebody's, I mean, I think the thing that we're struggling to do here is trying to provide flexibility and clarity and realize these are guidelines, these are not regulations.

[2:04:17] Voice 12: So, but, but if I'm somebody that has a house and I'm contemplating an STVR operation, I think it would be helpful to understand that a little clearer. Again, my, my understanding is, and I think.

[2:04:31] Voice 12: Are we, should we be debating this later here outside the hearing?

[2:04:35] Voice 12: I guess what I want to know is if somebody is reading that, would they assume that consideration is to a limit on the number of days is only in the period from May 1st to September 30th, but generally outside of that period, the trustees would not be turning their mind to a limitation on the number of days that it could operate in consideration of Alma's point about wanting to encourage people to be here in the shoulder season?

[2:05:02] Voice 12: Yes,

[2:05:03] Voice 15: that's

[2:05:04] Voice 12: how I would read it.

[2:05:04] Voice 8: yes that's

[2:05:05] Voice 12: that's thank you and i don't know whether we need to to maybe add a defining

[2:05:09] Voice 12: sentence to it but it's a fair question

[2:05:11] Trustee Patrick: okay thank you alma did you have anything else

[2:05:18] Voice 17: i know that i think most people that have been talking have brought up a lot of things that i

[2:05:23] Voice 17: think but those hadn't been mentioned and um they need to hear it because it's important

[2:05:28] Voice 17: thank you very much elma i

[2:05:31] Trustee Patrick: see uh gordy is next okay

[2:05:37] Voice 14: thank you um i think this is the public

[2:05:40] Voice 14: hearing part and we're supposed to be

[2:05:42] Voice 14: hearing from the people and so far it's been pretty much

[2:05:45] Voice 14: trustee thorn we've heard from so um i recognize that you're maybe trying to answer the questions

[2:05:53] Voice 14: but it's taking a lot of time um i would like to uh voice my opposition to um bylaw 119

[2:06:04] Voice 14: i have submitted a letter uh uh stating so uh with respect to notification there's been some

[2:06:13] Voice 14: discussion here we do have a local paper that's known as penner post and neither the february

[2:06:22] Voice 14: issue nor the march issue had any statement about these upcoming meeting excuse me um

[2:06:32] Voice 14: nor there's usually a i guess for lack of a better term a trustees corner

[2:06:38] Voice 14: in the pender post where the trustees generally give us an update um for whatever reason there

[2:06:46] Voice 14: was no comments from the south pender trustees on either of those days or pardon me either of those

[2:06:54] Voice 14: issues it in either of those issues i should be saying so there doesn't appear to have been a lot

[2:07:01] Voice 14: of attempt to notify uh the community on what's going on most recently um it's already been stated

[2:07:12] Voice 14: that the existing STVRs will become legal non-conforming

[2:07:17] Voice 14: and it's already, I guess, been confirmed

[2:07:20] Voice 14: that still after all this time,

[2:07:22] Voice 14: the trustees have no idea how many STVRs are operating.

[2:07:29] Voice 14: There's all supposition or guessing, I guess.

[2:07:32] Voice 14: I find that a little disconcerting

[2:07:36] Voice 14: and I trust that the current operators are listening

[2:07:42] Voice 14: know that they will become legal non-conforming that's a term that i don't want to have against

[2:07:48] Voice 14: my property and i don't know what other people but i i'm concerned about more properties on

[2:07:56] Voice 14: south pender that we are making uh non-conforming and it seems to be going up and implications are

[2:08:06] Voice 14: it'll be going up more uh with respect there's reference been made back to the community survey

[2:08:15] Voice 14: which i will commend the trustees on doing back in february of 20 where there was a not only a

[2:08:22] Voice 14: mail out but also an online survey and from the summary of that survey the in the staff report

[2:08:34] Voice 14: on page 79 of your public binder, a statement or the summary as taken by staff, and I'll quote

[2:08:53] Voice 14: here, there was some interest in STVRs being allowed only as a home business with TUPs.

[2:09:02] Voice 14: So, that's certainly not a ringing endorsement of using TUPs as a means of managing STVRs.

[2:09:16] Voice 14: further to that uh question 13 of that survey the response that came back from the public

[2:09:27] Voice 14: and i think it's already been identified close to 50 or you know 100 or 50 percent of the island

[2:09:35] Voice 14: uh responded only 30 percent kind of as a maximum number suggested that perhaps

[2:09:47] Voice 14: perhaps temporary use permits were means of managing STVRs.

[2:09:53] Voice 14: Indeed, close to 55% suggested that the old way

[2:10:01] Voice 14: was a better or pre-bylaw 117 was a better way,

[2:10:08] Voice 14: which was, I guess, the old way.

[2:10:11] Voice 14: There was no recommendation coming back

[2:10:14] Voice 14: from the Advisory Planning Commission

[2:10:17] Voice 14: information as for using TUPs as a means of managing STVRs. And I guess there's been some

[2:10:26] Voice 14: more letters added to the public document. But at my reading earlier this morning, there was one

[2:10:32] Voice 14: letter of support for using TUPs. And I guess as a final thing, if the TUP heads out or is adopted,

[2:10:47] Voice 14: I am very concerned about the amount of discretionary power that our trustees will have in determining what because it's a lot of maze and wish.

[2:10:59] Voice 14: There's nothing discreet there and I guess I would agree with other who have suggested that it should be in the regulatory portion not left to the discretion of our trustees.

[2:11:12] Voice 14: these um and i guess to further you know just uh support that if you look at the proposed

[2:11:24] Voice 14: amendments 82.6 where it talks about in addition to any other conditions the local trust may

[2:11:33] Voice 14: consider appropriate so that's a pretty wide open thing there's with no guidelines or nothing set

[2:11:41] Voice 14: as far as I'm concerned, that will allow the trustees to decide whether to issue a TUP.

[2:11:50] Voice 14: So that concerns me.

[2:11:53] Voice 14: And I guess the final thing, if you look on page 65, it appears to me that the initiative

[2:12:06] Voice 14: for this if for no other reason if you look at the graph graphic there and I realize most of you

[2:12:13] Voice 14: can't see it but it means that we have South Pender has an asterisk beside TUPs for STBRs

[2:12:27] Voice 14: and it seems to me that that's the motivation is to get rid of that star and simply have an X like

[2:12:33] Voice 14: like most of the other islands, under having STVRs controlled by TUPs.

[2:12:44] Voice 14: So, thank you. And I, again, would like to see this bylaw go no further. Thank you.

[2:12:52] Voice 14: Thank

[2:12:52] Trustee Patrick: you very much, Gordie. Mariette, next.

[2:12:59] Voice 18: Can you hear me?

[2:13:00] Voice 18: Yes.

[2:13:02] Voice 18: Okay. I would really like to strongly underscore everything that Gordie Duncan just said.

[2:13:09] Voice 18: And I want to make comment as well on the process, because I think all feedback, I did read every

[2:13:21] Voice 18: letter that I could find. They start, by the way, Alma, at page 107 of the document. That's where

[2:13:29] Voice 18: you'll start seeing the letters that people wrote in but it seems to me that the trustees are

[2:13:40] Voice 18: acknowledging or understanding that there has been no complaints there was one comment by one

[2:13:47] Voice 18: of the trustees i was either steve or mr thorn i'm not sure that they they responded to comments

[2:13:54] Voice 18: from the community well the rest of us haven't seen any comments from the community whatsoever

[2:14:02] Voice 18: that would have given rise to going out and looking you said there were no restrictions

[2:14:11] Voice 18: and so you started looking to other islands well but there was no problem and so and then you

[2:14:21] Voice 18: started referring to tools well tools are used to fix things that are broken and there was nothing

[2:14:27] Voice 18: broken in in all of those letters i reviewed every one of them very carefully every you know people

[2:14:34] Voice 18: repeatedly said um that there were no problems and in fact uh paul williams said that he'd made

[2:14:44] Voice 18: made friends and that's true for people who've rented our cottage they have told us gee we've

[2:14:52] Voice 18: made some wonderful friends while we're here and you know the south pender island is two-thirds

[2:14:58] Voice 18: park that canadians have paid for in our taxpayer dollars 65 million dollars to get that park up and

[2:15:07] Voice 18: going. And so people, Canadians have a right to go to Pender Island. Steve said that in the first

[2:15:18] Voice 18: place, in comment to my comments about rights, Steve said in the first place, the local trust

[2:15:25] Voice 18: committee granted the rights. The local trust committee has no authority of any kind to grant

[2:15:32] Voice 18: rights. The local trust committee makes restrictions and prohibitions and so on but they don't grant

[2:15:39] Voice 18: rights. The Canadian constitution grants us our right to own private property and those rights

[2:15:45] Voice 18: when they're whittled away in any way there has to be for good reason. It has to be originating

[2:15:52] Voice 18: with a problem or some kind of conflict and unanimously all of the letters except for Paul

[2:16:01] Voice 18: Petries said that there was no problem. So you, and you've acknowledged that you started looking

[2:16:08] Voice 18: to other islands, and that they, TUP is not a unique tool, but we don't need a tool in the

[2:16:15] Voice 18: first place. We don't need a tool to restrict access to the island, and we don't need a legal

[2:16:24] Voice 18: consult. You basically acknowledge that there's been no legal consult, and Steve told me that I

[2:16:29] Voice 18: could go and get my own if I wanted to well the eleven hundred dollars that you're talking about

[2:16:34] Voice 18: for temporary use permits there's a good reason to get a legal consult to generate a bylaw or

[2:16:42] Voice 18: any kind of a law that's the domain of lawyers and judges and so well not judges lawyers and and

[2:16:50] Voice 18: to and and law reformers not just any old person that says okay I can I can make a a copy of a law

[2:16:58] Voice 18: from another island, when you're imposing such severe restrictions or as you're calling them

[2:17:05] Voice 18: guidelines, you do need a legal consult. You don't just force this upon the community without finding

[2:17:11] Voice 18: if it's illegal. It sounds illegal to me to restrict and or not even restrict to discriminate

[2:17:19] Voice 18: against families of five. You know that that's against the international rights of the child.

[2:17:27] Voice 18: it's discriminating on the basis of family structure and you say well these are just

[2:17:33] Voice 18: guidelines they're just guidelines they're just guidelines but like gordy said they give what they

[2:17:38] Voice 18: give wide discretion to the local trust committee to be by law enforcers to say okay we're going to

[2:17:45] Voice 18: not let this person have one probably if i had to apply for one i wouldn't get one because i'm

[2:17:50] Voice 18: probably now very unpopular for making the strong comments that i've made but i do feel very strong

[2:17:57] Voice 18: about this. I do feel very, very strongly that you don't just make loose arbitrary guidelines

[2:18:03] Voice 18: and then say, here's, give these three people the power to issue a permit where they can apply

[2:18:10] Voice 18: those. Even planners, Stockdale got said, gee, I hope that's clear. And she sort of giggled. She

[2:18:16] Voice 18: knew herself that she wasn't being clear because it wasn't clear. The issue of three days, what

[2:18:23] Voice 18: what does 3Ds mean? Can you restrict it and say, well, no, you can't rent on the weekends during

[2:18:29] Voice 18: the summer, or you can't do this, or you can't do that. You can interpret that time limit

[2:18:36] Voice 18: restriction in a very, very wide variety of ways. One of the people that wrote in said,

[2:18:43] Voice 18: it's starting to sound like here we are in a rural community, and that the local trust committee is

[2:18:50] Voice 18: starting to impose the same kind of rules and restrictions that would happen in a she she

[2:18:56] Voice 18: referred to an HOA meaning a strata in BC and it sounds like that's what you're trying to do

[2:19:02] Voice 18: you're trying to restrict tell me who I can have in my house and how many people I can have in my

[2:19:08] Voice 18: house and whether or not I can have families it it it can be interpreted so loosely that when

[2:19:16] Voice 18: something can be interpreted that loosely, there shouldn't be so much discretion granted

[2:19:22] Voice 18: to a very, very tiny group of people. So I hope I've stated clearly that, oh, I wanted to make

[2:19:29] Voice 18: comment on the survey. There was lots of exchange by a man by the name of Weinstein. I liked his

[2:19:37] Voice 18: comments because in fact, I spoke to one person who said they'd submitted five different surveys.

[2:19:43] Voice 18: So, I'm not sure that I found that the survey that you know what I didn't get it myself. In fact, I wouldn't have known about any of this, except for the community link.

[2:19:57] Voice 18: And it was because of the community link that I found out about it. We haven't been able to be on Pender as much because of COVID.

[2:20:05] Voice 18: it. And we were very respectful, by the way, of Dr. Henry's orders, very respectful and very

[2:20:12] Voice 18: protective of ourselves and of other people. So I take objection. And my husband was finally over

[2:20:19] Voice 18: there last week, and he noticed that everybody was complying. So I was a little offended at the

[2:20:25] Voice 18: comment that people are not doing that. I believe the community of Pender has gone to great lengths

[2:20:30] Voice 18: to be protective in every way, and that most of us have restricted that. So I want to

[2:20:36] Voice 18: clearly state that I strongly oppose both bylaw changes, and particularly the temporary use

[2:20:44] Voice 18: permit, and that I strongly support what Gordie had to say, what Elma had to say,

[2:20:50] Voice 18: what Jane Perch had to say, and I want to strongly support what those writing in,

[2:20:56] Voice 18: other than Paul Petrie had to say all of them you know but those if those are hidden in that

[2:21:03] Voice 18: document so far that most people haven't had an opportunity to see what their neighbors have to

[2:21:10] Voice 18: say so Elma and others who might not have gone been able to see those letters you have to dig

[2:21:15] Voice 18: down to page 107 and then you'll see that most people are on the same page in opposing this

[2:21:23] Voice 18: um a bylaw and and thank you for listening and it it would be really good if the public hearing

[2:21:32] Voice 18: part of the um what's left of the public hearing could be left to the community rather than to um

[2:21:40] Voice 18: the trustees thank

[2:21:42] Trustee Patrick: you very much mariette okay i see donna spaulding's thanks thank

[2:21:48] Voice 20: you chair patrick

[2:21:49] Voice 20: it. So while everybody has spoken, I've kind of been keeping notes and watching your faces,

[2:21:55] Voice 20: trusty thorn and right. And please start smiling because this is a tough topic. So I'm going to

[2:22:06] Voice 20: try and not repeat what everybody has said, but I am going to try and address several of the things

[2:22:11] Voice 20: that are important to address. So first of all, STVRs are historical use on South Pender Island.

[2:22:16] Voice 20: Island. They've been here since the time of my husband's great-grandfather. They've been used for

[2:22:22] Voice 20: many, many purposes, and again, we have not seen, or I am unaware of any huge complaints in regard

[2:22:33] Voice 20: to their use on South Pender Island. Three previous trustees have questioned and do not support the

[2:22:41] Voice 20: path that we are on right now. These are people who have been involved intimately in the development

[2:22:45] Voice 20: of our OCP and our land use bylaws to this point.

[2:22:48] Voice 20: These are things that have come up in discussion in the past

[2:22:51] Voice 20: and they have not, they are not,

[2:22:54] Voice 20: STVRs are not something that has been felt to be needed

[2:22:58] Voice 20: to be addressed in this fashion as most recently

[2:23:02] Voice 20: as to the last bylaw, which we sat around

[2:23:06] Voice 20: and debated that nauseam.

[2:23:09] Voice 20: I would note that the current staff report reveals,

[2:23:12] Voice 20: the statement says that the survey revealed

[2:23:15] Voice 20: there is community interest in permitting STVRs,

[2:23:18] Voice 20: particular those where owner or operator

[2:23:21] Voice 20: is in residence on the property.

[2:23:24] Voice 20: So why can't we take that and think about what that means

[2:23:31] Voice 20: within our land use bylaw?

[2:23:34] Voice 20: The current project list that has been prepared by staff

[2:23:38] Voice 20: indicates that they see this project

[2:23:40] Voice 20: as related to STVRs as complete.

[2:23:43] Voice 20: I highly disagree. And I think we have that in front of us. Legal consultation. Reflect that

[2:23:51] Voice 20: there is a legal action that has been taken against the actions with regard to STVRs. And

[2:23:56] Voice 20: to my knowledge, this legal, this is still an open action. Approval of a TUP. Application to staff,

[2:24:06] Voice 20: as Planner Kojima outlined, the application would go to staff, recommendations would be made to the

[2:24:11] Voice 20: the LTC. With regard to cost, the simple amount of $1,100 could easily increase should staff believe

[2:24:17] Voice 20: or recommend that additional professional reports need to be provided as part of the application.

[2:24:23] Voice 20: Water, sewer capability, non-confirmance with setbacks because they were built at a time when

[2:24:28] Voice 20: things were different. Referencing other jurisdictions required what they list out

[2:24:34] Voice 20: in their TUP applications is exhaustive and we continue to compare ourselves to what we think

[2:24:40] Voice 20: is right for pender based on other islands and other communities in fact urban centers

[2:24:46] Voice 20: to that point neighborhood issues around airbnb south pender to um to trustee thorne's comments

[2:24:54] Voice 20: does not have the same definition as neighborhood as we have seen in the issues in vancouver in

[2:25:00] Voice 20: victoria and as close as magic lake for that matter we are considering some if we are considering

[2:25:07] Voice 20: areas on South Pender, where the density is somewhat closer, then the LTC should consider

[2:25:14] Voice 20: what specific rules, regulations, considerations are necessary there, respective of those residents'

[2:25:22] Voice 20: comments and complaints as appropriate. We have some very large land holdings. They continue.

[2:25:27] Voice 20: Our smallest lot is one acre. Our biggest ones are in the order of hundreds of acres. So let's

[2:25:35] Voice 20: Let's be realistic about, you know, what we're trying to fix in that regard.

[2:25:41] Voice 20: Trustee Cameron, guidelines are not regulations.

[2:25:44] Voice 20: It's a statement that you made.

[2:25:45] Voice 20: What does that mean?

[2:25:46] Voice 20: I want an STVR, and because there are no regulations, do I really need to apply for a TUP?

[2:25:51] Voice 20: This is a little confusing.

[2:25:54] Voice 20: Further, your reference to other islands, Salt Spring, for instance.

[2:25:58] Voice 20: Again, it is important to recognize this is South Pender.

[2:26:01] Voice 20: And our population and density does not mirror these comparisons and we should not be developing

[2:26:07] Voice 20: our requirements based on what others have done or just because they've done it.

[2:26:12] Voice 20: Staff has referred to 17 submissions that are part of the binder that you have in front

[2:26:17] Voice 20: of you and are online.

[2:26:20] Voice 20: I've gone through those and as the previous speaker noted, 10 of those submissions object

[2:26:27] Voice 20: to the bylaw, which just for the record, I object at this point to.

[2:26:32] Voice 20: Additionally, I've not heard any comments during this town hall or this public hearing

[2:26:36] Voice 20: in support of the changes that you're proposing.

[2:26:39] Voice 20: Public consultation.

[2:26:40] Voice 20: Yes, we've been talking about this for some time.

[2:26:43] Voice 20: However, I do not believe that we could in any fashion believe that we have come to the

[2:26:48] Voice 20: conclusions of making the changes to our official community plan that are being proposed.

[2:26:54] Voice 20: I agree with Jane and Elma and others.

[2:26:56] Voice 20: these regulations belong in a regulatory place. The official community plan is not a regulatory

[2:27:04] Voice 20: place. It is a place for visions and how we perceive ourselves. And if we perceive ourselves

[2:27:11] Voice 20: as unwelcoming and limiting, then I think we really need to step back and think about that.

[2:27:20] Voice 20: Last point, survey results. So you know I went through what's in your package and what I see

[2:27:29] Voice 20: is from the written surveys and the online surveys combined 45 percent of the respondents,

[2:27:35] Voice 20: 102 as noted by staff, said we should have STVRs with no restrictions. 31 percent indicated that

[2:27:43] Voice 20: we should have them as long as one as long as there's somebody resident on site. A third

[2:27:48] Voice 20: question stated that 96% stated that only one STVR with a resident on site was appropriate.

[2:27:56] Voice 20: 28% of the respondents indicated that we should have no STVRs. So with that, I leave you with my

[2:28:05] Voice 20: thoughts. I leave you with the questions that I put forward in the letter that I wrote to you,

[2:28:10] Voice 20: many of which I believe give us further thought for consideration. And I leave you with the idea

[2:28:16] Voice 20: that we are not done yet and hopefully you will understand

[2:28:21] Voice 20: that I don't think the community itself

[2:28:24] Voice 20: is saying we shouldn't do anything,

[2:28:28] Voice 20: but I don't think we're where we need to be

[2:28:30] Voice 20: as far as doing something is concerned.

[2:28:33] Voice 20: Thank you, Chair Patrick.

[2:28:35] Voice 20: I apologize, I must leave this meeting.

[2:28:38] Voice 20: I have a job and it's calling me in two minutes time.

[2:28:41] Voice 20: So I look forward to understanding

[2:28:44] Voice 20: understanding what the LTC sees as the next step and how we will adjust ourselves to the comments that you've heard today.

[2:28:56] Voice 20: Thank you very much.

[2:28:57] Voice 20: Thank you, Donna.

[2:29:02] Trustee Patrick: Is there someone else who would like to address the public hearing today?

[2:29:08] Trustee Patrick: I'm going to ask a second time.

[2:29:25] Trustee Patrick: is there anyone else that wishes to address us today

[2:29:41] Voice 8: yes

[2:29:43] Voice 11: can

[2:29:49] Voice 13: you hear me

[2:29:50] Voice 13: this time

[2:29:50] Trustee Patrick: yes we can Peter

[2:29:51] Voice 13: I'll make it very short I provided a written

[2:29:56] Voice 13: submission and I believe that covers most

[2:30:00] Voice 13: of my opinions uh the only things that i would add to it is clearly if you are looking at passing

[2:30:06] Voice 13: this bylaw i would ask you to look again at some of the provisions that you've written that might

[2:30:13] Voice 13: be more restrictive the reason why i would suggest that is simply that for a person contemplating an

[2:30:21] Voice 13: application i think they want to be able to determine what level of business they might

[2:30:27] Voice 13: be able to accomplish if they receive a permit and where those restrictions make it for example

[2:30:34] Voice 13: relating to period of use during late October or number of people present on the property

[2:30:43] Voice 13: those things have limitations on what sort of business can be accomplished

[2:30:48] Voice 13: and obviously because the permit has a very high starting cost

[2:30:54] Voice 13: You have to evaluate whether or not the result will be sufficient to justify the investment, and particularly the possibility that the application will be denied, in which case the investment as a whole in the permit process is lost.

[2:31:10] Voice 13: If

[2:31:11] Voice 9: the

[2:31:12] Voice 13: cost for application for a permit was substantially lower, and you've given reasons why it can't be at the moment, but if it was substantially lower, then this would be much less of a problem, in my mind.

[2:31:24] Voice 13: And I think it's the cost combined with limitations on the potential use that will be a disincentive to having people apply in the first place.

[2:31:35] Voice 13: And that, to me, goes back to the question of whether or not this becomes somewhat prohibitive

[2:31:42] Voice 13: versus our past history of permitting this use.

[2:31:45] Voice 13: And that's really all that I would add to my comments.

[2:31:49] Voice 13: Thank you very much.

[2:31:50] Voice 13: I appreciate it.

[2:31:50] Trustee Patrick: Thank you very much, Peter.

[2:31:54] Trustee Patrick: I see, Jane, before I'm going to call on you, I just want to make sure if there's anyone

[2:31:58] Trustee Patrick: else that hasn't had an opportunity to speak first.

[2:32:01] Trustee Patrick: Is there anyone else that wishes to address us before I have Jane speak a second time?

[2:32:08] Trustee Patrick: I'm not seeing any other hands popping up, so go ahead, Jane.

[2:32:17] Trustee Patrick: We're going to turn your mic on.

[2:32:19] Trustee Patrick: There you go.

[2:32:20] Voice 5: Thank you.

[2:32:21] Voice 5: I just want one thing that occurred to me as the process went on that Cameron happened

[2:32:26] Voice 5: to mention in terms of the tools that you have and the dilemma that we don't have something

[2:32:32] Voice 5: something like business permits that municipalities might have.

[2:32:36] Voice 5: And could anybody help with that?

[2:32:38] Voice 5: Well, really, it really comes to the trust to do that.

[2:32:41] Voice 5: You can ask for legislative changes.

[2:32:44] Voice 5: I've heard this many times, but it's the trustees that need to ask for those legislative changes.

[2:32:50] Voice 5: So really, if you feel that's important, I have no problem with a business permit.

[2:32:57] Voice 5: I'd be happy to have one.

[2:32:58] Voice 5: But really, that needs to come at your level.

[2:33:01] Voice 5: It's you who are a government who needs to ask the provincial government to amend legislation to allow that, similar to what Chair Patrick has said.

[2:33:11] Voice 5: I'm glad to see that something's happening in terms of the newspaper notifications, because, of course, that's out of date and doesn't work anymore.

[2:33:19] Voice 5: So as we advance in things that don't work for us, we just need to put other things forward.

[2:33:24] Voice 5: So I just throw that out there for food for thought.

[2:33:27] Voice 5: Thank you.

[2:33:29] Voice 5: Thank you very much, Jane.

[2:33:31] Voice 12: Sure, Patrick. I agree with Jane. Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting that it's solely the responsibility of the people on this phone call to lobby government for such changes. What I was suggesting is it's a multi-pronged approach that government, as you probably know from your experience, it takes a long time to affect change.

[2:33:55] Voice 12: change and so the more people that we can have advocating for changes the better in terms of

[2:34:02] Voice 12: achieving our outcomes and that's all I was trying to say.

[2:34:06] Trustee Patrick: Thank you Trustee Thorne. Okay is there

[2:34:11] Trustee Patrick: anyone else that wishes to address us today? Just a reminder I'm going to in a few moments

[2:34:20] Trustee Patrick: I'll be pausing but I'm going to make two more calls of people but that you can submit your

[2:34:26] Trustee Patrick: written submission still to the VICPHSUB at islandstrust.bc.ca for a few more moments.

[2:34:36] Trustee Patrick: Just reminding, I'm going to ask for a second time if there's anyone who wishes to address us

[2:34:46] Trustee Patrick: today on these bylaws. I'm going to ask a third time if there's anyone who wishes to address us

[2:35:01] Trustee Patrick: today. Before I close the hearing, I'm going to turn to staff. Did we receive any documents sent

[2:35:14] Trustee Patrick: via email during further written submissions?

[2:35:18] Voice 2: Chair Patrick, I just checked the email box and

[2:35:21] Voice 2: there were no more public submissions. However, there was one that, our apologies, it was in the

[2:35:27] Voice 2: junk mailbox from yesterday and we just forwarded it to you, to the local trust committee. Okay,

[2:35:32] Trustee Patrick: Okay thank you.

[2:35:35] Trustee Patrick: All right so we will now proceed to close the public hearing. Please note after

[2:35:42] Trustee Patrick: the public hearing closes the local trust committee will no longer be able to receive

[2:35:46] Trustee Patrick: public submissions prior to making a decision. And there we go. So please be advised now that

[2:36:03] Trustee Patrick: we are in post public hearing stage of the legislative review for proposed bylaws number

[2:36:09] Trustee Patrick: 119 and 120 south pender island local trust committee can now no longer receive information

[2:36:15] Trustee Patrick: pertaining to the proposed bylaw however we can still uh we can still submit any outstanding

[2:36:20] Trustee Patrick: questions and oh you can still sorry i can i can read i guess i'm um you can still submit

[2:36:27] Trustee Patrick: outstanding questions and comments directly to the staff just don't send it to the trustees just

[2:36:33] Trustee Patrick: just please correspond with the staff.

[2:36:36] Trustee Patrick: The local trust committee may give further readings

[2:36:39] Trustee Patrick: to the bylaw or defeat the bylaw or make minor amendments

[2:36:42] Trustee Patrick: that do not affect the use or density

[2:36:44] Trustee Patrick: without further notice or hearings.

[2:36:48] Trustee Patrick: So thank you very much.

[2:36:51] Trustee Patrick: Now we have a whole second process here.

[2:36:54] Trustee Patrick: How are we doing trustees?

[2:36:55] Trustee Patrick: Do we need a bit of a break?

[2:36:57] Trustee Patrick: I'm seeing yes from staff.

[2:36:58] Trustee Patrick: I know I could use one.

[2:37:00] Trustee Patrick: How much time would we like to break for?

[2:37:02] Trustee Patrick: I

[2:37:03] Voice 11: would suggest we recess for half an hour or 20 minutes, 15 minutes, whatever it takes

[2:37:11] Trustee Patrick: to run down the sandwich.

[2:37:12] Trustee Patrick: I'm looking for a consensus. What would folks like to do?

[2:37:17] Voice 12: I'd rather, I mean, if people need a break, could we keep it to 15, 10 or 15?

[2:37:23] Trustee Patrick: Staff, is 15 minutes sufficient for you? I'm seeing thumbs up from Kim. Is that okay with you, Steve?

[2:37:29] Voice 10: Yeah.

[2:37:30] Voice 10: all

[2:37:30] Trustee Patrick: right then so what what is the time it's 107 so uh uh how

[2:37:41] Voice 12: about 120 does that make sense

[2:37:44] Voice 12: well sure

[2:37:45] Trustee Patrick: 120 okay if we can put just a notice up that we're going to take a break until 120 so

[2:37:50] Trustee Patrick: everybody roar off and take a bit of a break and it's

[2:37:55] Voice 11: a bit of a discretionary decision

[2:37:56] Voice 11: all

[2:37:57] Trustee Patrick: right we'll see you

[2:38:01] Trustee Patrick: shortly all right i see i think everybody's back is everybody back

[2:50:07] Trustee Patrick: everyone's still chewing and wiping their mouths yes are

[2:50:11] Voice 12: we are we are we we're not live at this

[2:50:13] Voice 12: moment yes

[2:50:14] Trustee Patrick: we are we are live

[2:50:17] Voice 11: okay you

[2:50:19] Trustee Patrick: are being seen eating and chewing

[2:50:20] Voice 11: supposed to eat unless

[2:50:21] Voice 11: you've got somebody something for everybody camera all

[2:50:26] Trustee Patrick: right so how are we doing everybody

[2:50:28] Trustee Patrick: everybody ready to proceed oh

[2:50:30] Voice 10: you bet okay

[2:50:32] Trustee Patrick: thank you everyone for being patient here we're

[2:50:36] Trustee Patrick: we're going to go on and do a second community information meeting and this is on bylaw 121

[2:50:41] Trustee Patrick: alternative housing i see narissa chadwick has joined us uh planner chadwick so please the floor

[2:50:48] Trustee Patrick: is yours hi

[2:50:50] Voice 19: there so um bylaw 121 is an amendment to the land use bylaw or sorry yeah yeah it's an

[2:50:58] Voice 19: an amendment to the land use bylaw and it will basically tie RV use to a building permit

[2:51:04] Voice 19: and limit the use of RVs while a building permit is open to two years. In addition to that it

[2:51:11] Voice 19: limits the use of RV camping to 60 days per calendar year.

[2:51:21] Trustee Patrick: Okay so I'm

[2:51:24] Voice 11: not sure if that's

[2:51:25] Voice 11: complicated enough so

[2:51:29] Trustee Patrick: this is a community information meeting so this is

[2:51:32] Trustee Patrick: your chance for the public of anyone who has any questions about this bylaw what

[2:51:37] Trustee Patrick: it's intended to do any questions so we'll have a public hearing following

[2:51:41] Trustee Patrick: this where you'll be able to state your opinion so please just keep this part to

[2:51:46] Trustee Patrick: questions is there anyone who has any questions about this bylaw now I see one

[2:52:00] Trustee Patrick: one hand. Gordy. Gordy, there you go. Hello.

[2:52:04] Voice 14: Hi. I'm just wondering, where did the 60 days come

[2:52:08] Voice 14: from?

[2:52:12] Trustee Patrick: Anyone want to tackle that answer or answer that?

[2:52:19] Voice 12: I think that came, staff can maybe correct

[2:52:23] Voice 12: me. I mean, I think there was some effort to try and find what a reasonable balance was

[2:52:29] Voice 12: of the amount of days one would expect somebody to be camping in an RV in a given year,

[2:52:38] Voice 12: mindful of the fact that what we were also trying to achieve through this was was a policy that gave

[2:52:47] Voice 12: people the right to camp but we didn't want we were trying to also address what we're seeing

[2:52:54] Voice 12: where you know people will will move into an rv and then it becomes a de facto full-time

[2:53:01] Voice 12: residence for them and and there's and without any ability or intentions to have a building

[2:53:07] Voice 12: permit in place or without connection to a septic system so it's trying to make sure that we know

[2:53:12] Voice 12: we don't effectively become a trailer park and yet realizing that people want to use their land in

[2:53:18] Voice 12: um you know they may they may have bought land and they may not have immediate plans to build

[2:53:24] Voice 12: a home and so we didn't want to deny them the the ability to um to use to use their property

[2:53:33] Voice 12: reuse your RV. And so I think that was sort of where we ended up with that 60 days. Maybe

[2:53:40] Voice 12: that's kind of nodding. So I think, yeah.

[2:53:42] Voice 11: Yeah, Gordy, essentially, if anybody came

[2:53:45] Voice 11: onto the island today and used their trailer, it would be against the bylaw if they didn't

[2:53:55] Voice 11: have a permit. So we're just trying to recognize the absurdity of that and give some leeway.

[2:54:00] Voice 11: with respect to your question of 60 days 60 days is a figure that was put in the draft bylaw

[2:54:07] Voice 11: to get people's thoughts about whether that was long enough or appropriate or whatever so we're

[2:54:14] Voice 11: we're going to make that decision based on what we hear at the hearing but it's not a fixed number

[2:54:18] Voice 11: i hope that answers your question well

[2:54:22] Voice 14: just to follow up then is it 60 days total or

[2:54:26] Voice 14: or cumulative so if you came on one in one month and then came back for another yeah month

[2:54:36] Voice 14: it would

[2:54:38] Voice 11: be cumulative okay thank you thank

[2:54:43] Trustee Patrick: you see jane perch has a question

[2:54:50] Voice 5: yes uh thank you um i just wanted to be clear though um our current bylaws actually uh for

[2:54:56] Voice 5: or recreational vehicles require a hookup for sewer and water to be to be used as temporary

[2:55:02] Voice 5: accommodation so Cameron I think you're a little bit incorrect there because that's a that's a

[2:55:07] Voice 5: requirement at this stage so anybody who has an RV if they're hooked up to sewer and water that's

[2:55:13] Voice 5: a permitted use so all you are doing now is restricting that permitted use even further so

[2:55:19] Voice 5: So, you know, I did write, but I don't see any difference

[2:55:24] Voice 5: because I can see the requirements for sewer and water.

[2:55:26] Voice 5: I think those are good requirements as I write.

[2:55:29] Voice 5: But now to restrict how many days, again, to me, that's rather punitive.

[2:55:34] Voice 5: These are, and I think there's some talk about whether or not

[2:55:39] Voice 5: these are suitable accommodations.

[2:55:40] Voice 5: Well, there are people living in our, I'm not saying on Pender,

[2:55:43] Voice 5: but RV parts year round in these types of accommodations.

[2:55:46] Voice 5: And these trailers are actually quite nice.

[2:55:49] Voice 5: they're winterized there's nothing wrong there's suitable accommodation probably better than some

[2:55:54] Voice 5: little cottages or cabins we have on our property in terms of what they offer so I see no reason

[2:55:59] Voice 5: that we should restrict somebody who has met the current requirements and now just to restrict them

[2:56:08] Voice 5: to a number of days because they may be not ready to take out a building permit so it's the use of

[2:56:14] Voice 5: the property so they're happy I know people I mean you might buy a property be not being a means that

[2:56:20] Voice 5: you're ready to build yet you're experiencing the island and at some point you intend to build but

[2:56:25] Voice 5: why would we restrict somebody coming here for 60 days and the number why I don't see any number

[2:56:34] Voice 5: and all you're doing now is how are you actually going to enforce that that you know always a

[2:56:40] Voice 5: bylaw consideration is what's the enforcement and so to me I see no need to do the restrictions

[2:56:46] Voice 5: in terms of how long somebody can stay on the property as long as they've met their sewer and

[2:56:52] Voice 5: water requirements. The comments that were made in the staff report about having fireplaces or

[2:56:58] Voice 5: chimneys in these places and mold, those were not Islands Trust's jurisdiction.

[2:57:07] Voice 5: Your jurisdiction is land use so you need to consider why you're putting these restrictions in place for what purpose in terms of land use and that would be my question to you.

[2:57:19] Voice 5: Thank you.

[2:57:22] Voice 5: Does anyone

[2:57:22] Voice 10: want to answer?

[2:57:23] Voice 10: I

[2:57:24] Voice 11: completely hear you on the ability to enforce.

[2:57:28] Voice 11: And one of the reasons that this item came up,

[2:57:33] Voice 11: well, there was a couple of them,

[2:57:34] Voice 11: but one of the items that came up

[2:57:36] Voice 11: was because we did have some trailers

[2:57:39] Voice 11: on a piece of property that people were living in full time

[2:57:44] Voice 11: and they had no connection to a septic system or hydro.

[2:57:50] Voice 11: They're running on extension cord.

[2:57:54] Voice 11: and it turns out that we cannot enforce the fact that they are connected or not connected

[2:58:00] Voice 11: we have tried the CRD they won't touch it we tried VHA they won't touch it

[2:58:07] Voice 11: so we're looking for some type of enforcement and it may be weak but if they are not connected

[2:58:15] Voice 11: and we can't get enforcement through other agencies then perhaps we can get enforcement

[2:58:21] Voice 11: some advice limiting that state of 60 days. That's sort of

[2:58:24] Voice 11: what were my thoughts were at the time.

[2:58:26] Voice 12: Leslie Thorne

[2:58:28] Voice 12: want to be remind me if you could staff with the 60 days, do

[2:58:37] Voice 12: they still need to be connected to septic and water? Or can they

[2:58:40] Voice 12: have, you know, some some have holding tanks and just I think

[2:58:47] Voice 12: there was some discussion around that last time. And maybe you

[2:58:49] Voice 12: could remind me where where we are with the with the requirements associated with 60 days um

[2:58:55] Voice 19: yes so

[2:58:58] Voice 19: that um i think there was yeah there was some discussion and i i i believe that um

[2:59:10] Voice 19: um the use for camping um i i'm actually uh robert are you there

[2:59:28] Voice 19: um with respect to the 60 days

[2:59:32] Voice 19: the camping yeah in in the bylaw would that require them to be hooked up

[2:59:37] Voice 15: yep i think so that's

[2:59:39] Voice 19: what my position would be yeah

[2:59:42] Voice 15: all

[2:59:45] Voice 18: right can i just

[2:59:51] Voice 5: Can I, am I still on?

[2:59:53] Voice 5: Yes, Jane.

[2:59:54] Voice 5: Okay, sorry.

[2:59:54] Voice 5: Well, I can clarify you because our bylaw specifically says that if you're using a

[3:00:00] Voice 5: recreational vehicle as temporary accommodation you must be hooked up to

[3:00:03] Voice 5: sewer and water it's quite clear no so I don't know where the confusion is right

[3:00:11] Voice 12: trustee whatever pretty capable of reading the existing land use by line as

[3:00:18] Voice 12: well I don't I have no confusion about what it says I asked about what was

[3:00:23] Voice 12: clarification about what was proposed before us in the report is it related to

[3:00:27] Voice 12: the 60 days so there's a difference oh right so i've got section 3.10 and in front of me right

[3:00:32] Voice 12: now i'm reading the same thing you are thank

[3:00:35] Trustee Patrick: you all right thank you jane is that your questions

[3:00:39] Trustee Patrick: so is there anyone else that has any questions on this bylaw we're going to go now into the

[3:00:55] Trustee Patrick: public hearing as i'm not seeing any questions uh further questions so we're going to go right

[3:00:58] Trustee Patrick: into the public hearing on this bylaw so again i have to read through it apologize in advance but

[3:01:06] Trustee Patrick: but I must follow these words.

[3:01:10] Trustee Patrick: Hold on here while I fix my screen.

[3:01:12] Trustee Patrick: Okay, so this public hearing

[3:01:15] Trustee Patrick: for proposed bylaw number 121 is now open.

[3:01:18] Trustee Patrick: I wish to welcome everyone in attendance

[3:01:20] Trustee Patrick: and acknowledge again that we are meeting

[3:01:22] Trustee Patrick: on the territory of the Coast Salish peoples.

[3:01:24] Trustee Patrick: My name is Laura Patrick, I'm a trustee

[3:01:29] Trustee Patrick: and I'm chair of the South Pender Island

[3:01:32] Trustee Patrick: Local Trust Committee.

[3:01:33] Trustee Patrick: I would like to introduce the South Pender Island Local Trust Committee members again, Cameron Thorne and Steve Wright.

[3:01:39] Trustee Patrick: And we have Nerissa Chadwick with us as Island Planner.

[3:01:43] Trustee Patrick: And a minute for Cathy Gifford.

[3:01:46] Trustee Patrick: Gifford? Did I? Sorry. I don't have the right...

[3:01:49] Voice 12: Gilbert.

[3:01:50] Trustee Patrick: Gilbert, thank you. Sorry, Cathy Gifford, I wanted to make you a famous actress instead of...

[3:01:56] Trustee Patrick: I already told her at the beginning I'm very bad with names, so I had to come around and prove it.

[3:02:00] Trustee Patrick: um so uh this uh this public hearing is being convened pursuant to section 465 of the local

[3:02:10] Trustee Patrick: government act in order to consider the following proposed bylaws bylaw um number 121 cited as

[3:02:17] Trustee Patrick: south pender island land use bylaw number 114 2016 amendment number 1 2021 all persons who

[3:02:26] Trustee Patrick: believe that they have interest in or have their interest in property is affected by this proposed

[3:02:31] Trustee Patrick: bylaw will be given a reasonable opportunity to be heard or to present written submissions

[3:02:36] Trustee Patrick: respecting matters contained in the proposed bylaw those wishing to speak should commence

[3:02:43] Trustee Patrick: their presentation clearly by their names and address members of the local trust committee may

[3:02:48] Trustee Patrick: if they wish ask questions of you following your presentation however the main function of the

[3:02:52] Trustee Patrick: local trust committee members is to listen to the views of the public it is not the function of the

[3:02:56] Trustee Patrick: committee members to debate the merits of the proposed bylaws with individual citizens everyone

[3:03:02] Trustee Patrick: will be given a reasonable opportunity to be heard and none should feel discouraged from presenting

[3:03:06] Trustee Patrick: his or her views in considering the bylaws the local trust committee has received documents which

[3:03:13] Trustee Patrick: may influence its decisions and those documents are available for reviewing during this hearing

[3:03:17] Trustee Patrick: on our website as indicated in the public notice.

[3:03:22] Trustee Patrick: Any person who wishes to present a written submission

[3:03:25] Trustee Patrick: to the local trust committee may do so

[3:03:26] Trustee Patrick: and all written submissions must be received

[3:03:30] Trustee Patrick: before the close of the hearing.

[3:03:32] Trustee Patrick: Your only opportunity to comment

[3:03:34] Trustee Patrick: on the proposed public hearing is during this hearing

[3:03:37] Trustee Patrick: as members of the local trust committee

[3:03:38] Trustee Patrick: may not receive further submissions

[3:03:40] Trustee Patrick: after the close of the hearing.

[3:03:42] Trustee Patrick: After the public hearing has concluded,

[3:03:44] Trustee Patrick: the local trust committee may without further notice

[3:03:46] Trustee Patrick: make whatever decision it deems proper with respect to the bylaws and our subject of the

[3:03:53] Trustee Patrick: public hearing. I'd like to turn it over to Marissa Chadwick to tell us summarize the public

[3:04:01] Trustee Patrick: hearing notice and some key points from the bylaw and referral agency responses.

[3:04:06] Voice 19: Yeah so

[3:04:07] Voice 19: a copy of the the notice was advertised in two consecutive editions of the Driftwood

[3:04:13] Voice 19: on February the 17th and February the 24th of this year all notification requirements under

[3:04:19] Voice 19: the local government act have been completed there's a copy of the complete public hearing

[3:04:25] Voice 19: binder that's available on our on the wilds trust website and the purpose of the proposed bylaw

[3:04:35] Voice 19: number 121 if adopted is to amend south pender island land use bylaw to require the the use of

[3:04:43] Voice 19: recreational vehicles as a temporary dwelling to be tied to a building permit and to be limited to

[3:04:48] Voice 19: two years. As well it limits the use of RVs for camping to 60 days in a calendar year.

[3:04:55] Voice 19: So the proposed bylaw was referred to the relevant agencies and First Nations

[3:05:02] Voice 19: and we received one public submission from the public as of this morning.

[3:05:15] Trustee Patrick: thank you very much so again submissions can be made at any time during the public hearing

[3:05:20] Trustee Patrick: and if any submissions are received i'll pause at the end of the meeting to make sure

[3:05:27] Trustee Patrick: i'm able to see you can review those so again your written submissions if you wish to email us

[3:05:31] Trustee Patrick: during the hearing is to this email address v v as in victor i c p h s u v at islandstrust.bc.ca

[3:05:42] Trustee Patrick: a. So I invite members now from the public who wish to speak to us can raise their hand

[3:05:47] Trustee Patrick: and again state your name and after your presentations trustees may ask a question

[3:05:53] Trustee Patrick: but they're primarily here to listen and not debate the issues with you.

[3:05:58] Trustee Patrick: So again I'll be asking three times at the end to see if there's anyone. So is there anyone who

[3:06:03] Trustee Patrick: wishes to address make a statement during the public hearing today? I see we have Gordy.

[3:06:19] Trustee Patrick: uh

[3:06:22] Voice 14: i guess you're not going to get rid of me easy but um i just on what i've heard

[3:06:30] Voice 14: the by uh well i guess i'm supposed to make a statement i i believe that uh 60 days is too short

[3:06:38] Voice 14: for people that own the property and have the sewer connection and the water connection

[3:06:45] Voice 14: to limit them to 60 days for no valid reason it would seem to me that could be twice or three

[3:06:53] Voice 14: times or even 11 months or something if you need what you believe is a control mechanism as long

[3:07:01] Voice 14: as anything short of a year would should suffice as far to establish that if if they meet the other

[3:07:10] Voice 14: conditions of the trailer uh of the you know the water connection and the and the sewer sewer

[3:07:18] Voice 14: connection and i guess just from what marissa said i was a little confused by the tied to a

[3:07:28] Voice 14: building permit for two years if if the building permit is renewed then assumably the trailer

[3:07:38] Voice 14: would be renewed as well conditions is that the case all right thank you thank

[3:07:46] Trustee Patrick: you very much

[3:07:47] Trustee Patrick: gordy is there anyone else that wishes to address the public hearing today can

[3:07:56] Voice 11: i ask a question uh

[3:07:57] Voice 11: i'm obviously too late gordy hung up but uh uh gordy if you can check back in if you have a

[3:08:06] Voice 11: particular time frame that you think is more appropriate can you can you give me some idea

[3:08:11] Voice 11: what that might be well

[3:08:14] Voice 14: as I said as far as I'm concerned anywhere up up to a year or somewhere

[3:08:19] Voice 14: less than a year you know but a minimum of three months or I would say four months like it just

[3:08:29] Voice 14: 60 days technically a family couldn't come over and enjoy the summer there if they were law

[3:08:35] Voice 14: abiding citizens and you know the they might not be able to come from late June till early

[3:08:43] Voice 14: September they may have to vacate the property because it exceeded their limit so I don't

[3:08:48] Voice 14: understand why it is so short it should definitely be longer and I would say if you know my feelings

[3:08:59] Voice 14: it should be around 11 months if you want some method of saying you know they can't be there

[3:09:07] Voice 14: the full full time am

[3:09:11] Voice 11: I permitted to give some rationale for that again um we're not

[3:09:15] Trustee Patrick: debating

[3:09:16] Trustee Patrick: at this point I'd say you can save that

[3:09:17] Trustee Patrick: for the debate later okay

[3:09:19] Voice 11: I'll hang around Gordy I'll

[3:09:20] Voice 11: explain later okay thank you very

[3:09:23] Trustee Patrick: much Gordy is there anyone else that wishes to address the

[3:09:28] Trustee Patrick: public hearing today. Just a reminder that people can email in. I'll be pausing in a moment. So

[3:09:47] Trustee Patrick: last chance, if you're sending that in to that email address, vicphsub at islandstrust.bc.ca.

[3:09:57] Trustee Patrick: I'm going to ask, I guess, a second time if there's, I can't remember if I already asked

[3:10:01] Trustee Patrick: a second time, but I'm asking a second time. I'll make sure I count. If there's anyone that wishes

[3:10:05] Trustee Patrick: to address the hearing today I'll ask a third time if there's anyone that wishes

[3:10:17] Trustee Patrick: to address the public hearing today not seeing any I'm going to check in with

[3:10:25] Trustee Patrick: staff to see did we receive any written submissions chair

[3:10:30] Voice 2: Patrick there were no

[3:10:32] Voice 2: submissions received for bylaw 121 okay

[3:10:37] Trustee Patrick: thank you very much so now please be

[3:10:46] Trustee Patrick: be advised that we are now in the going to close the public hearing and please be advised that we're

[3:10:51] Trustee Patrick: now in the post-public hearing stage of the legislative review for the proposed bylaw number

[3:10:56] Trustee Patrick: 121 the south pender island local trust committee can now no longer receive information pertaining

[3:11:02] Trustee Patrick: to the proposed bylaw however you can still submit any outstanding questions and comments directly

[3:11:07] Trustee Patrick: to the planner the local trust committee may give further readings to the bylaw or defeat the bylaw

[3:11:14] Trustee Patrick: or make minor amendments that do not affect the use or density without further notice of the

[3:11:19] Trustee Patrick: hearings so thank you everyone that was uh we're we're we're through that uh that process there

[3:11:27] Trustee Patrick: so that brings us back to the agenda and we are at the minutes of um um whoops i have to open this

[3:11:37] Trustee Patrick: up that begin on page four are there any additions or corrections that need to be made to the minutes

[3:11:43] Trustee Patrick: I

[3:11:45] Voice 11: saw none I

[3:11:46] Trustee Patrick: have one minor one I have to just find it sorry it wasn't big

[3:11:51] Trustee Patrick: it was just right in

[3:11:52] Trustee Patrick: the trustee report yes um under my chair report number item four second paragraph that's on page

[3:11:58] Trustee Patrick: five it said that I had uh overviewed salt spring projects related to water protection and affordable

[3:12:04] Trustee Patrick: housing our project is just a housing project not affordable housing so I just just it's uh

[3:12:09] Trustee Patrick: water protection and housing so

[3:12:16] Voice 11: is there such thing as affordable housing

[3:12:19] Voice 11: these days isn't that the big question

[3:12:26] Voice 10: um i

[3:12:27] Voice 11: would i would uh

[3:12:29] Voice 11: i would uh we can

[3:12:31] Trustee Patrick: do it through general consent

[3:12:33] Trustee Patrick: okay good i

[3:12:35] Trustee Patrick: was just gonna say one last time make sure i didn't look at trustee thorn sorry

[3:12:38] Trustee Patrick: look at two computers and now i've got sun in my face i'm trying to dodge everything here um

[3:12:43] Trustee Patrick: so if there are no other corrections we can uh approve the minutes as amended through general

[3:12:48] Trustee Patrick: consent all right thank you um so moving on we have a follow-up action list on page 13 of the

[3:12:57] Trustee Patrick: uh are there any questions from either you on staff or staff that would like to talk about the

[3:13:01] Trustee Patrick: follow-up action list uh yes planners tackle chair pack chair

[3:13:05] Planner Stockdill: patrick there's only the uh one item

[3:13:07] Planner Stockdill: under activity three at the very bottom that of that it's in regards to the SDVR project

[3:13:13] Planner Stockdill: the only item that has not been completed is number six so if the bylaws do progress today

[3:13:20] Planner Stockdill: I will bring that back it states that staff to provide guidance on legal non-conforming

[3:13:26] Planner Stockdill: short-term vacation rentals during implementation phase of the project so

[3:13:30] Planner Stockdill: that is not complete and we will bring it back to a at a later follow-up action list

[3:13:35] Planner Stockdill: all

[3:13:35] Trustee Patrick: right thank you very much any questions from trustees on the follow-up action list

[3:13:41] Voice 11: no

[3:13:42] Trustee Patrick: okay not seeing any we'll move on to the next item so we've switched order here we have we're

[3:13:48] Trustee Patrick: going to do 15.2 first which is the alternative housing project staff report is on page 26 and

[3:13:54] Trustee Patrick: i believe uh planner chadwick will join us there yeah

[3:14:04] Voice 19: hi there so this is um yes this is the post

[3:14:06] Voice 19: public hearing report on alternative housing. The recommendations that are

[3:14:13] Voice 19: proposed for you in the report here are that the bylaw be read for a second time,

[3:14:20] Voice 19: that the bylaw be read for a third time, and then that the bylaw be forwarded to

[3:14:24] Voice 19: the Secretary of the Islands Trust for approval by the Executive Committee.

[3:14:30] Voice 19: As identified previously in the community information meeting, the purpose of the bylaw is to amend the land use bylaw

[3:14:48] Voice 19: and to result in tying the tying RV use to a building permit with the limited limit of use to

[3:14:58] Voice 19: uh two years while building permit is open and then limiting the use of RVs for camping

[3:15:05] Voice 19: to 60 days per calendar year so the uh the next steps with respect to the uh at this point

[3:15:15] Voice 19: following the hearing are the consideration of second reading consideration of third year easing

[3:15:20] Voice 19: and then the forwarding to the executive committee and then the bylaw will come back for

[3:15:25] Voice 19: reconsideration and adoption um the there is of course alternatives um the the ltc may choose at

[3:15:36] Voice 19: this point to amend the bylaw um receive it for information or proceed no further with the bylaw

[3:15:43] Voice 19: thank

[3:15:46] Trustee Patrick: you very much trustees what would you like to do uh

[3:15:49] Voice 11: well with respect to uh gordy duncan's

[3:15:52] Voice 11: comments uh on the 60 days and i i i certainly don't uh have any objection to uh extending that

[3:15:58] Voice 11: stay one of the uh considerations we were given um to the time frame is is uh the enforcement

[3:16:09] Voice 11: enforcement problem. If we do get a complaint about someone in an RV, there's nothing we can do

[3:16:17] Voice 11: until the end of their stay, their permitted stay. So if in the first week, the guys turn in

[3:16:22] Voice 11: to start annoying the neighbors, and the second week, they're annoying the neighbors, and the

[3:16:27] Voice 11: third week, they're annoying the neighbors, there's very little that we can do if we receive a

[3:16:32] Voice 11: complaint because they're allowed to stay there for 60 days. So we sort of left it at 60 days

[3:16:38] Voice 11: because that would take up most of the summertime secondly I'm not sure what

[3:16:44] Voice 11: the size of holding tanks are in some of these trailers I'm sure they vary but we

[3:16:48] Voice 11: don't have a pump out station on the island so if someone did show up and

[3:16:53] Voice 11: wanted to use their trailer and they weren't connected to a septic system

[3:16:58] Voice 11: which a lot of people that just show up in the property want to stay for a week

[3:17:02] Voice 11: or two don't have a septic field in their property then we didn't want to

[3:17:07] Voice 11: extend the time uh too far into the future so that would give them an opportunity to either

[3:17:14] Voice 11: leave the island to pump it out or simply dig a hole and get rid of it that way and

[3:17:18] Voice 11: we wanted to avoid that so that's kind of where we were why we shortened up those days

[3:17:23] Voice 11: um uh as far as the time limit for a building permit uh we've left it at uh two years um but

[3:17:32] Voice 11: certainly if the building permit or the house was not completed or they didn't

[3:17:38] Voice 11: achieve an occupancy permit there's no there's no hesitation whatsoever to

[3:17:44] Voice 11: extend the length of that time to the length of the permit and occupancy I just

[3:17:55] Trustee Patrick: I wanted to ask clarity I thought they the 60 days was and in addition to being

[3:18:00] Trustee Patrick: connected to sewer and water is that so that's that doesn't address a holding

[3:18:14] Voice 11: I'm trying to accommodate people that want to show up on the island and if they come up for, I mean, one of the suggestions was to go for a permit and, as I said, by the time they achieve the permit their stay would have been over, so I don't want to

[3:18:29] Voice 11: tell someone that if they're coming over for a weekend or a long weekend or for a week that they have to put in the septic field in order to use the trailer. So,

[3:18:38] Voice 11: So that's kind of where I'm trying to accommodate and be as pragmatic as I can.

[3:18:47] Voice 11: I'm not going to go after someone who's staying there for a week if he doesn't have a septic

[3:18:51] Voice 11: field, and I don't think anybody else would, but I'll leave that up to discussion.

[3:18:57] Voice 12: Trustee Thorne?

[3:18:58] Voice 12: Yeah, I mean, I think part of what we're trying to do, and I know we heard from Warren Dingman

[3:19:03] Voice 12: here in this conversation as well, is that it's tough.

[3:19:06] Voice 12: off. We also know that, unfortunately, trying to get CRD to enforce, you know, the responsibilities,

[3:19:17] Voice 12: you know, and sewage that obviously are their responsibility, they don't, you know, with

[3:19:21] Voice 12: respect, I don't think the track record has been that great in terms of how they followed up on

[3:19:24] Voice 12: things where people are living without being connected. So we're working with sort of

[3:19:30] Voice 12: imperfect instruments here. And one of the things was if, to Steve's point, I think, you know,

[3:19:35] Voice 12: there's a number of properties where people are here with their with their RVs and they're not

[3:19:41] Voice 12: connected to water and sewer and I think we know that and um so we're trying to work with a you

[3:19:48] Voice 12: know by having a defined period of time it you know it it is trying to recognize that there's

[3:19:55] Voice 12: going to be some people here without without connections and rather than immediately coming

[3:19:59] Voice 12: coming down on on somebody that's not connected to to water or sewer i think the 60 days is kind

[3:20:05] Voice 12: of a bit of a period that you know we could expect that there would be you know some tolerance of not

[3:20:11] Voice 12: being fully connected but we wouldn't want that time limit to go on and on and on um when they

[3:20:17] Voice 12: when they were not connected um at the same time i also um do do understand why you know and i'm

[3:20:27] Voice 12: open to to consideration of more than 60 days particularly when somebody's compliant and they

[3:20:33] Voice 12: and they're connected to to water and sewer I think one of the things if I can talk on this

[3:20:41] Voice 12: for a moment I guess that's this is the appropriate time to talk on it is you know Gordy's suggestion

[3:20:47] Voice 12: was you know maybe a minimal of three to four months and up to 11 months when they're connected

[3:20:52] Voice 12: to water and sewer I think if you you know if you get out to 11 months you're effectively allowing

[3:20:57] Voice 12: allowing for full-time living in an RV on a residential property.

[3:21:01] Voice 12: And I think that that would potentially change the long-term character and

[3:21:06] Voice 12: fabric of communities where there was really no intent or no motivation to

[3:21:13] Voice 12: ever build a home. You just live full-time.

[3:21:16] Voice 12: It's easy to go away for one, one month out of 12 and, and be compliant,

[3:21:21] Voice 12: but effectively, you know, a lot of,

[3:21:23] Voice 12: a lot of the single family properties could just potentially be year round

[3:21:28] Voice 12: RV residences. And I, I, again,

[3:21:33] Voice 12: I don't think that that is really the intent behind how these properties have

[3:21:37] Voice 12: been zoned. And I, and I,

[3:21:38] Voice 12: and I don't think that's in the long-term interest of the neighborhoods or the

[3:21:41] Voice 12: preservation of, of our rural character. So I,

[3:21:44] Voice 12: I'm open to more than 60 days when somebody is connected to water and sewer,

[3:21:50] Voice 12: but I don't want to take it to the point where it's de facto full-time living

[3:21:53] Voice 12: in a trailer yeah

[3:21:56] Voice 11: just as far as the um clarification on enforcement with the with

[3:22:00] Voice 11: the regional district the capital regional district um on Vancouver Island um has sighting

[3:22:07] Voice 11: permits and so they can go out and cite a trailer and demand that they be put on a septic system

[3:22:13] Voice 11: that is not the case on the southern gulf islands they do not have the authority or don't employ

[3:22:19] Voice 11: employ sighting permits on these islands. So they won't come over and enforce the fact whether

[3:22:25] Voice 11: someone is hooked up or not. In the case of Viha, we've had an incident where Viha has come over to

[3:22:33] Voice 11: look at a trailer. And in spite of there being no exterior signs of a pipe leaving that area and

[3:22:44] Voice 11: entering a tank the comment was I don't see any spillage on the ground so it's out of my hands

[3:22:51] Voice 11: and so that left us with no recourse but if I notice that Warren Dingman is in attendance and

[3:23:00] Voice 11: being our enforcement officer maybe he could give us a couple of insights on what is easy to enforce

[3:23:07] Voice 11: course and what is damn near impossible is

[3:23:12] Trustee Patrick: warren here i didn't see him on the list but uh

[3:23:15] Voice 12: an attendee oh

[3:23:17] Trustee Patrick: is he an attendee so maple can uh

[3:23:19] Voice 12: he's a panelist

[3:23:20] Trustee Patrick: aha he's been he's been coerced

[3:23:28] Voice 12: warren you're on mute i'm

[3:23:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): just trying to deal with the fact that i just got back to my desk

[3:23:33] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): and suddenly i have been made live because i've been away from my desk for five minutes what did

[3:23:40] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): I miss?

[3:23:41] Voice 11: Oh uh enforcement for um RVs uh with uh septic hookups uh the difficulties practicalities

[3:23:53] Voice 11: and um what are the advantages of limiting the length of stay?

[3:23:58] Voice 12: And and I guess one more thing

[3:24:00] Voice 12: sorry Warren one more thing is we were just we were just um commenting on on past um experiences

[3:24:07] Voice 12: with viha where we found there really wasn't much enforcement from that organization when it related

[3:24:13] Voice 12: to properties trailers that were not connected to septic so that was sort of the context of

[3:24:19] Voice 12: wanting your feedback so

[3:24:21] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): well viha for one won't get involved with travel trailers and of course

[3:24:25] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): the crd does not wish to get involved with travel trailers either because it's not a building and

[3:24:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): And BHA does not want to get involved with, or the one person has said they can't, they can only get involved if it is connected to a, it's an actual septic system connected to a building.

[3:24:44] Voice 9: The

[3:24:45] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): only other way they can get involved is if there is a hazard on the, on the ground, something that they can see, they want to see waste on the ground.

[3:24:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): So if they don't see that hazard, they say, okay, they don't have the ability to enforce.

[3:25:00] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): force so even though most would think you know okay this person must have a registered septic

[3:25:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): system regardless you know please do something the response is well okay it's not attached to

[3:25:14] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): a building my in fact their their responsibility is x number of feet or meters apparently away

[3:25:20] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): from the building with that septic system the building inspector takes care of the system

[3:25:25] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): uh in the building to for the hookup and then the viha inspectors okay we're responsible for

[3:25:33] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): that system once it's outside of the building and so trying to get you know any type of enforcement

[3:25:40] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): and sometimes even on regular dwellings where there's complaints about a septic system

[3:25:47] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): it's been difficult getting the attention of an inspector and getting action because

[3:25:53] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): Because they'll go to the property and say, okay, I don't see the waste.

[3:25:58] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): We're going through this right now with a property on Salt Spring where the neighbor complains of the gray water coming onto her property.

[3:26:04] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): She sends us the pictures.

[3:26:06] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): We go there.

[3:26:06] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): We see the gray water.

[3:26:08] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): We find the pipe.

[3:26:09] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): Then the VHON inspector goes there and says, okay, I don't see any waste on the ground.

[3:26:14] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): I don't see the gray water today.

[3:26:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): So, you know, I can't do anything.

[3:26:19] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): uh despite the complainant supplying photographs of the gray water coming onto her property

[3:26:26] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): and creating this mess from and from this very specific situation where people are using travel

[3:26:34] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): trailers and in that case multiple travel trailers on a small residential lot they've created a mini

[3:26:40] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): campground and here's here's the problem there's waste being created and where's it going it's not

[3:26:46] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): not going into a proper septic system it's going on to the little old lady's not lot next door

[3:26:53] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): and so one of the reasons to you know with the other islands and they have more some of the

[3:27:01] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): regulations you're looking at introducing is okay here you limit the amount of time you can camp on

[3:27:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): the property so hopefully you know you're not getting into long periods of use on the lot

[3:27:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): without a building permit and a commitment to that principal use and you know the building of

[3:27:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): of a home.

[3:27:21] Voice 12: Thanks, Warren.

[3:27:23] Voice 12: You're welcome.

[3:27:26] Trustee Patrick: Trustees, what would you like to do?

[3:27:29] Voice 11: Well, as depressing as that is,

[3:27:33] Voice 11: and I want to remind everybody that we don't write bylaws

[3:27:37] Voice 11: to the people that obey and have common sense

[3:27:40] Voice 11: and some decency.

[3:27:42] Voice 11: We have to write bylaws to ensure that those

[3:27:45] Voice 11: that don't give a damn have some sort of regulatory control.

[3:27:49] Voice 11: control. So I'm okay with everything in this thing. If the problem is with the length of

[3:28:00] Voice 11: time and someone wants to spend more than 60 days on a property, I know that it was

[3:28:08] Voice 11: suggested that a TUP would deal with that timing of it, but I'm just not going to a

[3:28:14] Voice 11: a tup for a trailer i'm sorry i just can't do it um so uh if if the 60 days has to get extended

[3:28:21] Voice 11: to 90 days um i i'm kind of okay with it but i really personally don't want to see it extended

[3:28:27] Voice 11: much much more than that because then we're we're just getting into uh into longer stays and a

[3:28:34] Voice 11: potential of more problems and i really don't want to create problems i want to try and solve them

[3:28:38] Voice 11: and and literally if someone wants to come and and say look i'm going to live in my house for

[3:28:43] Voice 11: six months come and talk to us i mean we're not crazy we're not we're not mean-spirited come and

[3:28:49] Voice 11: talk to us we'll make a provision for it so i think 60 days is fine but if uh if cameron feels

[3:28:55] Voice 11: that 90 days is more appropriate then i'm okay with it but i are like i said i don't want to

[3:29:01] Voice 11: extend it much more beyond that and

[3:29:03] Trustee Patrick: i think i said 90 days was what salt springs is okay that's good

[3:29:08] Voice 12: Good context. Yeah, you know, I think this is a pretty straightforward

[3:29:13] Voice 12: discussion. I think Warren's comments were very, very contextual and very helpful to

[3:29:19] Voice 12: understanding the problems that can arise when there is no policy. I hear Gordie's point about

[3:29:30] Voice 12: maybe two months is limited. And so I, you know, again, trying to strike that balance of interest

[3:29:36] Voice 12: My proposed amendment would be to change that first provision from 60 days to 90 days,

[3:29:51] Voice 12: but to leave the other components as they are. However, I do have a question.

[3:30:00] Voice 12: one thing if i could um which is clause two limit the use of rvs while building permit is open to

[3:30:07] Voice 12: two years now um when i did get some i think we got comments from from alma and others about you

[3:30:13] Voice 12: know takes a long time to build a house there's provisions uh obviously um through the crd that

[3:30:21] Voice 12: if somebody is not able to achieve an occupancy permit um in the time that their building permit

[3:30:28] Voice 12: you know before their building permit expires that they can they can renew that building permit

[3:30:35] Voice 12: subject to a fee by the way so you know it's not like balanced trust is the only one that

[3:30:39] Voice 12: has to charge fees for things but subject to a fee a building permit can be renewed

[3:30:45] Voice 12: and I'm I would just want to maybe have some comfort language or something in there that if

[3:30:51] Voice 12: somebody was unable to you know to get to get their house finished within the two-year period

[3:30:57] Voice 12: that they you know there would be you know concurrent with the with the renewal of a

[3:31:01] Voice 12: building permit uh on that same property that you know the the state could be extended um in

[3:31:08] Voice 12: the trailer until such time they had an occupancy on the on the house can

[3:31:15] Voice 19: i okay yes please how

[3:31:18] Voice 11: would that be

[3:31:19] Voice 11: accomplished well

[3:31:20] Voice 19: so this is i just want to so i asked that the previous discussion

[3:31:23] Voice 19: was about limiting it to two years whether or not the building permit is is renewed and am i

[3:31:29] Voice 19: hearing correctly that perhaps you want to consider um just limiting it to the period of

[3:31:36] Voice 19: time that a building permit is in place which would sorry

[3:31:42] Voice 12: sorry narissa go ahead because there

[3:31:44] Voice 19: was a couple of things there's a couple of things that i'm hearing right because there's that process

[3:31:47] Voice 19: where your building permit is no longer placed but you're waiting for occupancy and so there's

[3:31:52] Voice 19: there's a there's potentially a time lag where you maybe or maybe there's a time lag where you

[3:31:56] Voice 19: apply for another building permit um so the way that the um the way that the amendment is written

[3:32:03] Voice 19: is it basically it basically just limits that the absolute time to two years whether or not you

[3:32:11] Voice 19: renew your building permit or not so that's what i'm not i'm unclear about whether you are actually

[3:32:17] Voice 19: thinking about um allowing the use to continue when there is a building permit in place well

[3:32:25] Voice 12: Or you mean an occupancy permit in place?

[3:32:27] Voice 12: No, building permit.

[3:32:29] Voice 19: Yeah, building permit.

[3:32:30] Voice 19: So before the occupancy permit.

[3:32:31] Trustee Patrick: Isn't a building permit good for five years?

[3:32:33] Trustee Patrick: So, I mean, then you're like almost proving up to five years

[3:32:36] Trustee Patrick: that someone could live in there.

[3:32:38] Trustee Patrick: And then I don't.

[3:32:40] Voice 12: I mean, I guess that's a point of clarification.

[3:32:42] Voice 12: I don't remember how long a building permit is valid for.

[3:32:44] Voice 12: I don't think it's quite five years, but I could be wrong.

[3:32:48] Voice 12: I

[3:32:48] Voice 11: don't think I ever took two years to build a house,

[3:32:51] Voice 11: no matter how big it was.

[3:32:52] Voice 11: I mean if there's other if there's other forces in in effect I mean it used to take longer if it

[3:33:00] Voice 11: was owner built but that's pretty much against you have to take a course through the home warranty

[3:33:07] Voice 11: program in order to build your own house nowadays and very few people take advantage of that so

[3:33:13] Voice 11: if two years is is is long enough and let them come to us and and talk two

[3:33:20] Trustee Patrick: years is what it is

[3:33:22] Trustee Patrick: on salt spring and in the we I haven't seen a single complaint um raised uh on the issue

[3:33:29] Trustee Patrick: I

[3:33:29] Voice 12: did check and so I think there is some there's some elegance to the to the timing of the two

[3:33:34] Voice 12: years because from looking at my own permit that I had taken out of uh you know previously uh the

[3:33:40] Voice 12: permit is valid for two years so if we calibrate the two years to uh to what the duration of a

[3:33:48] Voice 12: building permit is it seems to make sense but again recognizing that you know there's labor

[3:33:54] Voice 12: shortages you know it's a tough time right now everybody's busy that you know if somebody gets

[3:34:00] Voice 12: um if if so now just talking about the building permit for a moment so you're you're you're at

[3:34:06] Voice 12: your 22nd month and you know you're not going to get an occupancy permit within the next two months

[3:34:12] Voice 12: months, the, the, I mean, I think the proactive person would, would be making application for an

[3:34:18] Voice 12: act for renewal of the building permit. So they didn't fall out of compliance. And I would expect

[3:34:23] Voice 12: at the same time that somebody could have the ability to do the same thing when it came to the

[3:34:28] Voice 12: RV and say, look at, I'm, I, you know, I need another six months to, before I get my occupancy

[3:34:33] Voice 12: so that, you know, I think, I think maybe the simplest thing is if there are both on two year

[3:34:37] Voice 12: times and if i go at month 22 hypothetically renew my building permit for another two years

[3:34:43] Voice 12: then my my tenure in living in my rv is good for two years but of course it's extinguished once

[3:34:50] Voice 12: i get an occupancy permit in my house yeah robert yeah

[3:34:55] Voice 15: and i mean i understand you're trying to you

[3:34:58] Voice 15: know accommodate every potential circumstance but you know speaking about warren said as well

[3:35:02] Voice 15: earlier like to keep in mind that uh you know there's only going to be enforcement if there's

[3:35:06] Voice 15: a complaint right someone living there and if someone complains and bio-enforcement investigates

[3:35:12] Voice 15: and they've been there for two years and one month and they say well i'm getting my occupancy

[3:35:16] Voice 15: in three months bio-enforcement will just give them time to comply because they're working

[3:35:20] Voice 15: towards compliance right that's the key is they're working towards compliance thanks robert that's

[3:35:26] Voice 12: that's common sense prevails occasionally that's good to hear hallelujah um

[3:35:31] Trustee Patrick: well uh trustee thorn

[3:35:32] Trustee Patrick: if you wanted to make that amendment uh it's the alternatives are on page 28 uh uh alternative

[3:35:38] Trustee Patrick: number one gives you the language to the beginning of the um amendment um

[3:35:44] Voice 12: page 28 or 20 oh 28

[3:35:46] Trustee Patrick: of the

[3:35:47] Trustee Patrick: alternative

[3:35:48] Voice 12: one yeah that

[3:35:51] Trustee Patrick: gives you the language oh yes

[3:35:53] Trustee Patrick: sorry

[3:35:53] Voice 12: fair enough so i'm going to make an

[3:35:55] Voice 12: amendment uh that the south pender island local trust committee proposed bylaw 121 cited as the

[3:36:01] Voice 12: the South Pender Island Land Use By-law Number 114, 2016,

[3:36:05] Voice 12: Amendment Number 1, 2021, be amended by,

[3:36:11] Voice 12: I don't know if it's adding or changing the date

[3:36:15] Voice 12: from 60 days to 90 days.

[3:36:17] Trustee Patrick: In clause 2.4 or subsection 2.4.

[3:36:25] Voice 11: I'll second that.

[3:36:26] Trustee Patrick: All right, thank you.

[3:36:27] Trustee Patrick: Kathy, how did, did you get that, Kathy?

[3:36:34] Trustee Patrick: Yes, I did.

[3:36:35] Trustee Patrick: All right, that's great.

[3:36:36] Trustee Patrick: is there any discussion on this motion?

[3:36:40] Voice 11: No just about done.

[3:36:42] Trustee Patrick: Any I'll call the vote all those in

[3:36:45] Trustee Patrick: favor and that is carried. Are there any further amendments that need to be made? None.

[3:36:52] Trustee Patrick: If not you

[3:36:53] Trustee Patrick: could proceed through making the motions but you do need to refer to the bylaw as amended in the

[3:36:59] Trustee Patrick: language.

[3:37:01] Voice 11: I'll recommend that the or move that the Sells-Pender Island Local Trust Committee bylaw

[3:37:06] Voice 11: bylaw number 121 cited as the South Pender Island land use bylaw number 114, 2016.

[3:37:15] Voice 11: Amendment number 121 as amended be read a second time.

[3:37:21] Trustee Patrick: Is there a second?

[3:37:24] Trustee Patrick: Is there any discussion?

[3:37:26] Trustee Patrick: I'll call the vote.

[3:37:27] Trustee Patrick: All those in favor?

[3:37:29] Trustee Patrick: That is carried.

[3:37:34] Voice 12: I'll make a recommendation that the south pender island local trust committee bylaw number 121

[3:37:40] Voice 12: cited as south pender island land use bylaw number 114 2016 amendment number 1 2021 as amended

[3:37:48] Voice 12: be read a third time and

[3:37:51] Trustee Patrick: that's a motion not a recommendation just

[3:37:54] Trustee Patrick: is there a second to that you're

[3:37:57] Voice 11: recommending a motion here

[3:37:58] Voice 11: all

[3:37:59] Trustee Patrick: right seconded by uh a trustee right is there any uh discussion on this motion

[3:38:05] Trustee Patrick: i'll call the vote all those in favor and that too is carried oh i see there's a typo

[3:38:13] Voice 11: there's

[3:38:14] Voice 8: a typo in the third one

[3:38:15] Voice 11: to my fellow trustees janine and david yes

[3:38:21] Voice 8: so just catch

[3:38:22] Voice 11: that the south bender island overclass committee by the number one two one

[3:38:28] Voice 11: cited as South Bender Island land use bylaw number 114 2016 amendment number 1 2021 as amended before

[3:38:36] Voice 11: forwarded to the secretary of the island's trust for approval by the executive committee

[3:38:40] Voice 11: is

[3:38:40] Trustee Patrick: there a second thank you any discussion call the vote all those in favor carried

[3:38:46] Trustee Patrick: all right thank you thank you very much uh planner Chadwick for you

[3:38:51] Trustee Patrick: oh sorry i've got cats

[3:38:53] Trustee Patrick: in the room knocking stuff down um and um that's fantastic so now

[3:39:00] Trustee Patrick: we're going to 15.1 which is the short-term vacation rental staff report that's on page

[3:39:05] Trustee Patrick: 16 of the agenda package and we're back to planner stock bill thank

[3:39:14] Planner Stockdill: you chair patrick

[3:39:15] Planner Stockdill: so this is in regards to the short-term vacation rental project and as we all know we're post

[3:39:22] Planner Stockdill: post public hearing. But one thing to note is that the LTC has the discretion to amend

[3:39:29] Planner Stockdill: the bylaw after the public hearing and the bylaws may be altered based on information

[3:39:35] Planner Stockdill: received or heard by the LTC at any point prior to the close of the hearing provided

[3:39:41] Planner Stockdill: the amendments do not alter use or increase density or decrease density without the land

[3:39:47] Planner Stockdill: landowner's consent. So there are a number of things I just want to highlight before we go over

[3:39:54] Planner Stockdill: the recommendations from staff. The first item is at the last meeting in January the LTC gave

[3:40:01] Planner Stockdill: direction to staff to remove the guidelines related to groundwater and septic quality and

[3:40:08] Planner Stockdill: quantity well yeah quality and quantity requirements and staff have provided a draft

[3:40:16] Planner Stockdill: guideline to be added to bylaw number 119 for the LTC's consideration and that reads that a

[3:40:23] Planner Stockdill: temporary use permit for short-term vacation rentals should not be issued in areas of known

[3:40:27] Planner Stockdill: groundwater shortage based on available mapping unless the applicant can provide a strong

[3:40:33] Planner Stockdill: rationale for the use and the term based on mapping that's that's because we don't have

[3:40:39] Planner Stockdill: the mapping available yet from the groundwater project so we're waiting for that so this would

[3:40:44] Planner Stockdill: give the discretion to the LTC to approve or not approve a TUP application based on when that

[3:40:51] Planner Stockdill: mapping is available. The guideline also puts the onus on the applicant to provide a strong

[3:40:56] Planner Stockdill: rationale for their application if they are located in an area where groundwater is a concern.

[3:41:01] Planner Stockdill: So staff have included this amendment in the first recommendation for the LTC's consideration.

[3:41:08] Planner Stockdill: duration. The second recommendation is trustee Wright noted an error in bylaw number 119 and

[3:41:17] Planner Stockdill: there were a few words missing from guideline 8.2.6a. So staff are recommending that those

[3:41:25] Planner Stockdill: words are owner or other than the owner or permitted occupier are actually included in that

[3:41:32] Planner Stockdill: guideline so let's see here so kind of just to dive right into it on the first page of the staff

[3:41:43] Planner Stockdill: report there are actually seven recommendations for the LTC to consider as I mentioned the first

[3:41:51] Planner Stockdill: one is related to any amendments the LTC may want to make to bylaw 119 which sounds like there is

[3:41:59] Planner Stockdill: some amendments. So I do recommend that we go through potentially bylaw 119

[3:42:05] Planner Stockdill: guideline by guideline to see if there are any amendments and then we can add

[3:42:09] Planner Stockdill: them to that list. The other recommendations are that after all the

[3:42:15] Planner Stockdill: amendments are made that the LTC gives second and third reading to both bylaws

[3:42:20] Planner Stockdill: and at that point also refer them to the Executive Committee and to the Minister

[3:42:26] Planner Stockdill: minister municipal affairs for approval and that is my summary okay trustees

[3:42:34] Trustee Patrick: did you want to

[3:42:36] Trustee Patrick: well the

[3:42:39] Trustee Patrick: bylaw as recommended yeah uh

[3:42:43] Voice 11: this has been a long uh challenging uh subject to deal with

[3:42:46] Voice 11: um and i i'd just like to say that with respect to a number of the comments that were made

[3:42:54] Voice 11: during the public hearing and even before. What the public hearing is technically about is to

[3:43:06] Voice 11: allow people to explain how their interests or their properties are affected. And I think the

[3:43:14] Voice 11: discussion got more about a philosophical approach and a policy debate more than

[3:43:22] Voice 11: matters at hand. There was also some concern about the LTC having discretion to make decisions

[3:43:32] Voice 11: based on a number of guidelines. That discretionary power has been around ever since there's been LTCs

[3:43:38] Voice 11: and I'm not sure why that should be necessarily a problem at this time. If there's any question

[3:43:46] Voice 11: about conspiracy or or some thoughts about distrust then those those should

[3:43:51] Voice 11: be dealt separately but not not as far as the process of the process is

[3:43:55] Voice 11: concerned I just want to repeat that we are not outlawing outlawing this use we

[3:44:04] Voice 11: are simply regulating it and there is provision within our official community

[3:44:09] Voice 11: plan for us to do so we are trying to act on a precautionary principle and

[3:44:15] Voice 11: And that is that if it should South Pender

[3:44:20] Voice 11: run into a problem that other municipalities

[3:44:22] Voice 11: or other towns and villages have had with too many STVRs,

[3:44:29] Voice 11: then it is extremely difficult to roll back.

[3:44:32] Voice 11: So we're trying to get ahead of the game.

[3:44:34] Voice 11: And I stress this because it is far easier for us

[3:44:38] Voice 11: to revisit this in a year or two years,

[3:44:40] Voice 11: someone else's term to revisit this and expand it

[3:44:43] Voice 11: rather than try and turn it back after the damage is already done.

[3:44:49] Voice 11: So I'm going to stick to that precautionary principle because I think it just makes much more sense.

[3:44:54] Voice 11: I'd also like to state that the concerns about the guidelines, guidelines are not mandatory requirements.

[3:44:59] Voice 11: They are simply an opportunity for trustees to give some consideration to the situation.

[3:45:06] Voice 11: And that would be based on a public process, because when the TOP is advertised and it is presented, it goes before the public so that the adjacent property owners can have some say and some input into what they are concerned about.

[3:45:24] Voice 11: and I think that that's entirely appropriate and again if we do nothing

[3:45:29] Voice 11: and then a property owner that lives next door runs into a problem then guess

[3:45:34] Voice 11: where the criticism for not doing anything is going to go so I think that

[3:45:39] Voice 11: as long as we we remain pragmatic as long as we maintain open and reasonable

[3:45:45] Voice 11: I really don't see any problems with with the process and how we're going to

[3:45:51] Voice 11: attack it now the biggest concern and i'm not going to disagree with it is the use of the tup

[3:45:58] Voice 11: i'm not in favor of tups for one thing it is essentially what it is it's temporary and i

[3:46:03] Voice 11: don't like temporary solutions however it is the only thing we have and if we take that away

[3:46:09] Voice 11: then we are not going to do anything about regulating or controlling effectively on a

[3:46:15] Voice 11: site-by-site basis uh stvrs so there is uh uh being sponsored by um our chair laura patrick

[3:46:24] Voice 11: uh to get an sgi conversation going uh regional i should say regional discussion going about scvrs

[3:46:32] Voice 11: and my hope would be that out of that comes some sort of approach and appreciation by the minister

[3:46:39] Voice 11: to allow the trust to issue licenses or permits with respect to this and if that is granted i'm

[3:46:46] Voice 11: the first guy to line up to get rid of tups that you you got my word on that one i don't like them

[3:46:52] Voice 11: but i don't have any other tools so uh i'm sorry we're just going to have to use it and i'm going

[3:46:58] Voice 11: to kill my phone i'm

[3:47:00] Trustee Patrick: just gonna so

[3:47:01] Voice 11: um now after listening to people and

[3:47:05] Trustee Patrick: i just pick up on that

[3:47:06] Trustee Patrick: point for just a second before we leave the business the um the crd is the one that has

[3:47:12] Trustee Patrick: the service that could issue business licenses and i think that's where some of this pressure

[3:47:16] Trustee Patrick: can go on that uh uh that hopefully we can bring some pressure on them to bring the business

[3:47:22] Trustee Patrick: licenses um to this uh to this issue i think i think we'd all be greatly relieved if that tool

[3:47:29] Trustee Patrick: was available for for such a thing um but uh just wanted to clarify that yeah

[3:47:35] Voice 11: in my con i i would

[3:47:37] Voice 11: i'd like that too my conversations with crd is are you out of your mind

[3:47:42] Trustee Patrick: we're going to change so

[3:47:43] Voice 11: we'll see what

[3:47:45] Voice 11: comes of it but uh so far um our director certainly has not

[3:47:48] Voice 11: shown any interest whatsoever and neither and neither has the staff but uh you you probably

[3:47:54] Voice 11: have a director that understands the problems you're having on

[3:48:00] Voice 11: South Spring far greater than than ours does in this little island of

[3:48:03] Voice 11: ours. But anyway I've got the ongoing consideration of of these

[3:48:08] Voice 11: amendments for 119. I also agree with a number of

[3:48:14] Voice 11: comments that were made that the extent of the changes to the policies

[3:48:17] Voice 11: go beyond in his original acknowledgement and

[3:48:20] Voice 11: wishes um that and and i really don't feel that we have consul uh consulted with the community um

[3:48:29] Voice 11: that they whether they desire those changes so i think some of the removal of the statements in

[3:48:35] Voice 11: the ocp uh are unnecessary and i would like to um address this because a couple of them clause 3.1.2

[3:48:45] Voice 11: to the proposal to delete short-term rental

[3:48:49] Voice 11: of a single family dwelling suggests something more

[3:48:54] Voice 11: than what I believe we intended.

[3:48:56] Voice 11: We're recommending us regulating them.

[3:48:58] Voice 11: We're not suggesting that they'd be removed.

[3:49:01] Voice 11: So in speaking with Planner Stockdale,

[3:49:05] Voice 11: she has explained why she feels it's necessary

[3:49:11] Voice 11: to remove those because,

[3:49:12] Voice 11: because well, for certain legal reasons,

[3:49:18] Voice 11: but we could retain the same intention

[3:49:23] Voice 11: by including another bullet,

[3:49:27] Voice 11: which says the local trust committee

[3:49:29] Voice 11: may consider issuance of a temporary use permit

[3:49:31] Voice 11: for short term vacation rental

[3:49:34] Voice 11: on lots where a single family dwelling

[3:49:36] Voice 11: or a cottage is permitted by the land use bylaw

[3:49:39] Voice 11: on lands designated rural residential.

[3:49:41] Voice 11: So I would like to make that amendment to retain the sentiment within the policy and also to clarify the directions that we are regulating rather than prohibiting it.

[3:49:57] Voice 11: So what I'll do to open up discussion, I'll say I'd move that the South Pender Island Local Trust Committee proposed bylaw number 119,

[3:50:06] Voice 11: cited as the South Bender Island official community plan bylaw number 107

[3:50:12] Voice 11: to 11 amendment number 1 2020 be amended as follows the local trust committee by

[3:50:22] Voice 11: adding an additional bullet the local trust committee may consider issuance of

[3:50:28] Voice 11: a temporary use permit for short-term vacation rental use on lots where a

[3:50:34] Voice 11: single family dwelling or a cottage is permitted by the land use bylaw on lands designated rural

[3:50:41] Voice 11: residential um

[3:50:45] Trustee Patrick: before before i call for

[3:50:47] Trustee Patrick: a second i'm just

[3:50:47] Trustee Patrick: gonna look at staff is that um clear

[3:50:52] Planner Stockdill: uh yes sorry the one thing i just want to clarify is where um where are we inserting this um

[3:50:59] Planner Stockdill: my apologies is that in the uh section 3.1.2 e2 of the ocp or is this a new guideline in the

[3:51:10] Planner Stockdill: temporary use permit section uh

[3:51:13] Voice 11: i'm not sure if i got clear on that when we spoke um essentially

[3:51:19] Voice 11: it's i i don't want to if we have to delete the reference of short-term vacation rental i i just

[3:51:25] Voice 11: want to make sure that we don't lose that whole yeah

[3:51:28] Planner Stockdill: my recommendation is i from what i heard

[3:51:32] Planner Stockdill: from the public hearing and also from trustees is still retaining some um verbiage around

[3:51:40] Planner Stockdill: short-term vacation rentals in the bulk of the ocp so um where there's mention of regulating

[3:51:47] Planner Stockdill: short-term vacation stvrs um in the land use bylaw yes those should be removed but what we could do

[3:51:54] Planner Stockdill: is add this policy in section 3.1.2 e 2 of the OCP and you know can I bring the OCP up on my

[3:52:08] Planner Stockdill: computer screen

[3:52:09] Planner Stockdill: would that be helpful okay okay let's just give me two moments while I

[3:52:16] Planner Stockdill: pull up the bylaw here and then I will share my screen well

[3:52:32] Trustee Patrick: she's pulling her screen up I think

[3:52:33] Trustee Patrick: it's uh i pay on page 22 of the agenda package uh clause four deletes that entire clause that

[3:52:41] Trustee Patrick: she's talking about so there might need to be right yes the amendment needs to take that into

[3:52:49] Trustee Patrick: account thank

[3:52:50] Planner Stockdill: you for noting that so what i um let's see here i wish i could get the bylaw up

[3:52:57] Planner Stockdill: at the same time as um the ocp

[3:53:00] Planner Stockdill: that would be i wonder uh it

[3:53:03] Voice 11: would be helpful oh goodness

[3:53:07] Planner Stockdill: are you able to see the pdf that i have up as well or you're just able to see the the ocp

[3:53:15] Planner Stockdill: okay yeah i'm not sure unfortunately how to um but

[3:53:20] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): what i could do

[3:53:21] Planner Stockdill: is i will

[3:53:22] Planner Stockdill: flip back and forth if that's helpful um i'm going to pull up bylaw 119 okay so would it be

[3:53:36] Planner Stockdill: helpful just to kind of go by line by line and i'll then switch over to the ocp to see okay

[3:53:40] Planner Stockdill: so the first one we are deleting uh short-term vacation rentals in 3.12 a2 and

[3:53:50] Voice 11: that and the

[3:53:51] Voice 11: reason for doing that was because it can't remember the phrase you used it's an enabling

[3:54:01] Planner Stockdill: that's right uh

[3:54:03] Voice 11: statement is that correct

[3:54:04] Planner Stockdill: that's right 3.1.2 a pardon me it's here we go

[3:54:10] Planner Stockdill: so this is where we're removing it from is this ocp policy here um and it says land use

[3:54:19] Planner Stockdill: regulatory bylaws are to make provision for and it lists all these things and one of them

[3:54:25] Planner Stockdill: is a short-term vacation

[3:54:28] Planner Stockdill: yeah so that was the one that staff was recommending removing because

[3:54:32] Planner Stockdill: it's giving that enabling policy to have these uh regulatory um regulations and land use bylaw

[3:54:39] Planner Stockdill: in terms of short-term vacation rentals so where

[3:54:44] Voice 11: would so where would the amendment to um appease

[3:54:47] Voice 11: that um yeah

[3:54:49] Planner Stockdill: bear with me sorry i'll just quickly

[3:54:52] Planner Stockdill: go through these and this will give you

[3:54:53] Voice 11: a bit of

[3:54:53] Voice 11: of a

[3:54:53] Planner Stockdill: picture of where staff were coming from so the next paragraph there's a mention about

[3:54:58] Planner Stockdill: a background and that's in here and there's a reference to short-term vacation rentals that

[3:55:03] Planner Stockdill: they provide economic return and so forth that could actually still stay in the OCP if the LTC

[3:55:11] Planner Stockdill: wishes and so that yeah

[3:55:14] Voice 11: I'm

[3:55:15] Planner Stockdill: going to make that amendment

[3:55:16] Voice 11: I'm going to make that amendment

[3:55:17] Voice 11: because i

[3:55:19] Voice 12: said it before yeah

[3:55:20] Planner Stockdill: the next one here is in reference to 3.12 e1 and again this is the

[3:55:27] Planner Stockdill: language around um land use bylaws and regulations in terms of short-term vacation rentals and that's

[3:55:34] Planner Stockdill: why it was um suggested to remove it yeah

[3:55:38] Voice 11: now can we can we leave that and move it to guide

[3:55:40] Voice 11: the guideline section let's

[3:55:43] Planner Stockdill: see here what did we just uh pardon me i

[3:55:50] Voice 12: mean yes the question at that

[3:55:52] Voice 12: time i'm sorry not to keep you on your role kim i appreciate you know because i think and i i know

[3:55:58] Voice 12: i i spoke way out of turn earlier in the meeting i guess on this but you know i like i felt like

[3:56:03] Voice 12: that clause it says land use regulations applicable to short-term single-family dwellings are to be

[3:56:09] Voice 12: be developed with the perspective of land use compatibility to minimize the effects on adjacent

[3:56:14] Voice 12: lots in the community in general you know where i think somewhere and if it has to move around in

[3:56:19] Voice 12: the ocp i i think i'm open to that but to me that was one of the guide posts um that i

[3:56:28] Voice 12: bared in mind when we were going through this whole process over the last couple years like

[3:56:32] Voice 12: my rationale for for for the position that i've taken on on this discussion thus far

[3:56:38] Voice 12: was guided in part by that which was to say you know i'm not against them but they need to be

[3:56:44] Voice 12: taken in you know we need to develop policies with with a bunch of things in mind so to me this is a

[3:56:50] Voice 12: an important guidepost it gives a you know kind of a bit of a background to to the rationale for

[3:56:56] Voice 12: the policy

[3:56:57] Planner Stockdill: so if that

[3:57:00] Voice 12: could stay somewhere and we

[3:57:01] Voice 12: don't want to lose it yeah

[3:57:03] Planner Stockdill: in terms of this one

[3:57:04] Planner Stockdill: right here yeah

[3:57:05] Voice 12: uh no not the one that's highlighted there kim um well that one too

[3:57:10] Planner Stockdill: the only amendment that staff are recommending for this section right here is to actually remove um

[3:57:18] Planner Stockdill: this sentence as it's specific to a regulation for short-term vacation rentals in terms of home

[3:57:24] Planner Stockdill: occupation but it sounds like trustee wright would like to see this policy actually taken from this

[3:57:32] Planner Stockdill: section and placed as a guideline in the temporary use permit section is that correct

[3:57:38] Voice 12: more than okay

[3:57:39] Voice 12: let's just can we read that from it lots having more than one cottage are limited using not more

[3:57:44] Voice 12: than one cottage uh well yeah i mean we don't that's not allowed right yeah

[3:57:50] Planner Stockdill: so

[3:57:51] Voice 12: i don't know i

[3:57:51] Voice 12: mean that's it it

[3:57:54] Planner Stockdill: it's not necessary because in the definition of um a short-term vacation rental

[3:58:03] Planner Stockdill: in the tdp section it does say state that the use is for either a dwelling or a cottage so maybe

[3:58:10] Voice 12: it's redundant and just that's okay if it's

[3:58:12] Voice 11: redundant then boot it but

[3:58:13] Voice 12: does that mean that

[3:58:14] Voice 12: kim just before you leave i'd agree if you strike that one out that would seem to make sense with

[3:58:19] Voice 12: me but but under um a little below where your cursor is yes under 3.12 e2 where it says land

[3:58:26] Voice 12: use regulations applicable to short-term dwellings that can stay then right what

[3:58:32] Planner Stockdill: what i had

[3:58:32] Planner Stockdill: proposed in speaking with Trustee Wright is this is when he mentioned that new policy that

[3:58:40] Planner Stockdill: I believe we have a motion if I'm not mistaken and that would be placed in this section here.

[3:58:46] Planner Stockdill: So these would be removed and then a new policy would be inserted that would state the LTC may

[3:58:52] Planner Stockdill: consider an issuance of a temporary use permit for short-term vacation rental use on lots where

[3:58:57] Planner Stockdill: where a single family dwelling or a cottage is permitted by the land use bylaw on lands

[3:59:01] Planner Stockdill: designated rural residential. And that's where it would be inserted, if the LTC wishes.

[3:59:07] Planner Stockdill: I

[3:59:07] Voice 12: get that. But I'm just also trying to, you know, also want to meet, like, I guess,

[3:59:15] Voice 12: and I'm just maybe I'm getting a bit philosophical in my thinking here. But I'm also saying,

[3:59:20] Voice 12: like, if somebody comes up to me and says, Cameron, what was your guidepost? What was

[3:59:26] Voice 12: how you approach the development of policy around stvrs i would like to see something and again if

[3:59:35] Voice 12: it has to move somewhere else in the ocp but to me i think that one of the directions or again

[3:59:41] Voice 12: guideposts that i that i had was was the fact that the ocp said hey trustees when you're making

[3:59:48] Voice 12: land use regulations as it relates to short-term single-family dwellings take into account think

[3:59:54] Voice 12: think about land use compatibility and the impacts on adjacent lots.

[4:00:00] Voice 12: moving that it kind of creates a void for what was what was one of the rationales for why we

[4:00:05] Voice 12: developed the policies that we did so I think it's important to keep it somewhere in here

[4:00:10] Voice 12: well

[4:00:11] Trustee Patrick: the adverse effect comment is in the second the middle bullet in the above statement the e

[4:00:17] Trustee Patrick: what um e1 it's in that center section there not e2 okay

[4:00:25] Voice 12: well so is there a bit of a

[4:00:26] Voice 12: yeah although that was

[4:00:29] Voice 12: like home occupations though chair patrick which is which is different

[4:00:33] Voice 12: correct

[4:00:34] Trustee Patrick: but that's the statement that makes reference to the adjacent lots and again these

[4:00:39] Planner Stockdill: two sections are specific to specifically to land use regulation and those are found in the land use

[4:00:45] Planner Stockdill: bylaw and with bylaw 120 you're removing any type of um language around short-term vacation rentals

[4:00:53] Planner Stockdill: that's

[4:00:53] Voice 12: the key piece here so is the word um maybe the word is would it be what i mean so maybe just

[4:01:02] Voice 12: to to go backwards a little bit here we're developing a tup which is a guideline uh which

[4:01:09] Voice 12: which then people would make an application for um you know to operate it get a tup to operate a

[4:01:16] Voice 12: um an stbr is it fair to say that what we've been doing and going through the language in the tup

[4:01:24] Voice 12: is that we're we're we're developing policies or guidelines is that is that what the place is

[4:01:31] Voice 12: so what it's fair to say because because i get your point we're not making regulations now would

[4:01:36] Voice 12: it be fair to say somewhere in here not under home occupation but somewhere under here is land

[4:01:41] Voice 12: use policies and guidelines related to short-term single-family dwellings already be developed with

[4:01:47] Voice 12: the perspectives of land use compatibility etc etc so rather than rather than the word being

[4:01:51] Voice 12: regulations we you know again i'm just trying to find something that gives some some basis you know

[4:01:58] Voice 12: underpinning for what we've been going through the last couple years and so to me if we change

[4:02:02] Voice 12: the word from regulating policies it might make a little more sense i don't know how you feel about

[4:02:11] Voice 12: that but it just i'd hate to have an absence of any anything that related to what was what we

[4:02:18] Voice 12: were thinking about and when we try to develop the t our approach to stvrs i mean we develop

[4:02:25] Voice 12: policy and then we develop guidelines and they're and they're reflected in the TUP

[4:02:30] Voice 12: and so to me something somewhere should make reference to that yeah

[4:02:36] Voice 11: yeah I'm not sure that

[4:02:38] Voice 11: bullet needs to come out in

[4:02:42] Planner Stockdill: terms of the second one what you could potentially do the LTC could

[4:02:45] Planner Stockdill: consider is just removing any type of reference to again land use regulations perhaps you

[4:02:50] Planner Stockdill: delete this these first few words

[4:02:53] Voice 12: here it's maybe it's maybe it's policies and guidelines relating

[4:02:57] Voice 12: relating to short-term vacation rentals

[4:02:59] Voice 12: should be developed with this perspective.

[4:03:01] Voice 12: That's all I'm saying.

[4:03:02] Planner Stockdill: Land use policy and guidelines applicable to short-term.

[4:03:06] Planner Stockdill: Yeah.

[4:03:07] Voice 12: Right.

[4:03:07] Planner Stockdill: In terms of this paragraph here,

[4:03:10] Planner Stockdill: this is against speaking to regulation.

[4:03:15] Planner Stockdill: So this is something that the LTC

[4:03:17] Planner Stockdill: may want to consider removing,

[4:03:18] Planner Stockdill: which we've stated in bylaw 119.

[4:03:21] Voice 12: I'm okay with that, Kim.

[4:03:22] Voice 12: I think it was just, I wanted to have some reference

[4:03:24] Voice 12: so that people didn't think that we were,

[4:03:25] Voice 12: you know that we didn't have a foundation on the development of our policies or that we didn't

[4:03:30] Voice 12: appreciate that there was you know an importance of referencing stvrs in our ocp okay

[4:03:36] Planner Stockdill: so one um

[4:03:38] Planner Stockdill: recommendation is that we could read it as such that um in bala 119 so number four it says you

[4:03:47] Planner Stockdill: know by deleting this section but what we could say is by deleting bullet one in its entirety

[4:03:55] Planner Stockdill: and replacing it with that policy that Trustee Wright has stated which is the local trust

[4:04:03] Planner Stockdill: committee may consider issuance of a temporary use permit for short-term vacation rental use

[4:04:08] Planner Stockdill: on lots where a single family dwelling or a cottage is permitted by the land use bylaw on

[4:04:14] Planner Stockdill: lands designated rural residential and by replacing the word regulations in the second bullet with

[4:04:23] Planner Stockdill: with policies and guidelines.

[4:04:25] Voice 12: Correct.

[4:04:27] Voice 11: Correct.

[4:04:28] Voice 12: Okay.

[4:04:29] Voice 12: You okay with that, Robert?

[4:04:30] Voice 12: Yeah, that sounds good.

[4:04:32] Planner Stockdill: Now somebody has to read it back to me.

[4:04:35] Planner Stockdill: Okay, got it.

[4:04:36] Planner Stockdill: Yeah.

[4:04:36] Voice 9: Okay.

[4:04:38] Trustee Patrick: We're going to have to help Cathy with crafting the motion for this.

[4:04:50] Voice 12: So, I'll take a crack at that second one.

[4:04:55] Voice 12: The south, are we making a motion now, or what are we doing?

[4:04:58] Voice 12: well

[4:04:59] Trustee Patrick: trustee Wright had read a motion and then we we were frozen and making sure that we were

[4:05:05] Trustee Patrick: talking about the right spot

[4:05:06] Voice 11: well yeah the placement of it so um a

[4:05:09] Voice 12: motion well we have

[4:05:13] Trustee Patrick: one on

[4:05:13] Voice 11: the table okay so

[4:05:15] Trustee Patrick: it hasn't been seconded yet uh okay you can you can recraft from the

[4:05:20] Trustee Patrick: beginning I'm

[4:05:21] Voice 12: just wondering I'm just wondering because they're sort of they kind of are stitched

[4:05:25] Voice 12: together are we better to get maybe our intents out so that we can read them together and

[4:05:29] Voice 12: understand you know make sure that they're they're complementary informed each other

[4:05:35] Voice 12: is that okay with you chair patrick no

[4:05:37] Trustee Patrick: absolutely okay

[4:05:39] Voice 12: so what i would think then i'm not

[4:05:40] Voice 12: setting aside steve's for a moment or just putting it parking that for a moment i would say

[4:05:44] Voice 12: my motion would be that the south pender island official community plan bylaw number 107 2020

[4:05:50] Voice 12: 20 is amended as follows by amending section 3.1.2 e 2 to state that land use policies and

[4:06:06] Voice 12: guidelines and removing the word regulations and replacing with land use policies and guidelines

[4:06:13] Voice 12: applicable to short-term vacation rentals and then it just carries on from there

[4:06:21] Voice 12: or

[4:06:23] Voice 11: do you want me

[4:06:24] Voice 11: yeah i'd second that i kind of think we're getting out of order here but yeah i'll i'd second that

[4:06:30] Voice 11: okay

[4:06:31] Trustee Patrick: we're gonna also right now uh the bylaw reads it says deleting by deleting that clause

[4:06:37] Trustee Patrick: so we'll have to um replace that as as well so you're basically should

[4:06:48] Voice 12: we strike out striking

[4:06:50] Trustee Patrick: striking for and replacing it with the one that you're saying is that correct i'm looking at

[4:06:57] Trustee Patrick: planner stockville would that be appropriate to say yeah

[4:07:00] Planner Stockdill: i'm just wondering um is it worth

[4:07:05] Planner Stockdill: again discussing the removal of the first bullet as well and replacing it with the policy like

[4:07:09] Planner Stockdill: have just the one motion that addresses both yeah

[4:07:13] Voice 11: sure and

[4:07:14] Voice 11: i believe we

[4:07:15] Planner Stockdill: lost that first bit

[4:07:16] Planner Stockdill: the motion

[4:07:17] Voice 11: i made was to um was made to replace the first bullet and then the motion that cam has

[4:07:27] Voice 11: made is is to amend the second bullet is that correct cam yes

[4:07:32] Planner Stockdill: could we put the motions together

[4:07:34] Planner Stockdill: i don't

[4:07:35] Voice 11: know at this point

[4:07:36] Voice 11: you're asking a lot okay um so

[4:07:39] Trustee Patrick: there's three three things happening

[4:07:41] Trustee Patrick: one is we're deleting we're uh deleting number four of the bylaw and replacing it with

[4:07:48] Trustee Patrick: the amendment to the two bullets um

[4:07:53] Planner Stockdill: actually we don't even need to say that we're deleting

[4:07:55] Planner Stockdill: that section okay what

[4:07:56] Planner Stockdill: we can say is we're deleting the first bullet and replacing it

[4:08:01] Planner Stockdill: with that new policy and bullet two the word regulations is being replaced with policies

[4:08:10] Planner Stockdill: policies, and guidelines. Okay. You clear on that,

[4:08:14] Voice 12: Jim? Yeah, no, I am. I think I'm clear on the

[4:08:17] Voice 12: intent. It's just that bullet two, or item two, if I'm reading it right, I'm looking at page 22,

[4:08:23] Voice 12: if that's the page that I should be on, is like I'm looking at South Bender Bylaw 119 and looking

[4:08:33] Voice 12: looking at schedule one page which is on page 22 um item two on this one um that one um are we

[4:08:44] Voice 12: sorry just to be clear are we keeping this one or is it four we're talking about

[4:08:48] Voice 10: can we do yeah

[4:08:49] Voice 10: we're

[4:08:49] Voice 12: good we're talking

[4:08:49] Planner Stockdill: about four we're talking about four but we can bounce back to two i've

[4:08:53] Planner Stockdill: noted that that um what i

[4:08:56] Voice 12: just suggested yeah four

[4:08:58] Trustee Patrick: is where we're talking sorry

[4:09:00] Voice 12: about that okay so

[4:09:01] Voice 12: of four. Okay. So we're

[4:09:04] Trustee Patrick: not going to, who wants to attempt to assemble that motion then? Okay.

[4:09:09] Voice 12: I'll try it. I, I, uh, first motion or yes, I do. Okay. Yeah. I, I second yours so that I'm going

[4:09:21] Voice 12: to, so

[4:09:22] Trustee Patrick: wait, let's do it. If we're going to do them separate motions, then let's do it.

[4:09:27] Voice 9: All right. Steve,

[4:09:29] Trustee Patrick: you want to repeat your motion from, from the top? Okay.

[4:09:31] Voice 10: I'm going to talk to

[4:09:33] Voice 10: the

[4:09:33] Trustee Patrick: chat the second piece there the help as well for i'm just trying to help poor kathy so go ahead

[4:09:38] Trustee Patrick: and start for a motion and kathy we're we're going live here with a motion that the south

[4:09:43] Voice 11: pender island local trust committee proposed bylaw number 119 cited as the south pender island

[4:09:48] Voice 11: official community plan bylaw number 107 2011 amendment number 1 2020 be amended as follows

[4:09:57] Voice 11: that in section three point one point two bracket e bracket two delete bullet

[4:10:11] Voice 11: one to replace with the following the local trust committee may consider

[4:10:19] Voice 11: issuance of a temporary use permit for the short-term vacation rental use on

[4:10:24] Voice 11: lots where a single-family dwelling or a cottage is permitted by the land use

[4:10:28] Voice 11: by law on lands designated rural residential and further to change the words in bullet number two

[4:10:37] Voice 11: to remove regulations and include policies and guidelines is

[4:10:49] Trustee Patrick: there a second and i'll have kathy

[4:10:50] Trustee Patrick: read that back seconded kathy when you're ready if you could read that back please

[4:11:03] Voice 11: poor kathy okay

[4:11:06] Voice 6: chair um

[4:11:08] Voice 6: chair Patrick what I've done is I've got the first part of the first motion and the last part of the

[4:11:18] Voice 6: first motion but I didn't include all the wording is it okay if I just defer to the recording can

[4:11:29] Trustee Patrick: you see the chat screen the chat the wording is in the chat box from planner stock bill that helps

[4:11:36] Trustee Patrick: you what

[4:11:37] Voice 6: i'm seeing is bylaw number 119 the schedule no

[4:11:42] Trustee Patrick: the chat the on the bottom screen

[4:11:44] Trustee Patrick: you'll see it says chat if you click chat okay there's the wording in the is in in the bubble

[4:11:52] Trustee Patrick: there okay

[4:11:56] Voice 6: that's the

[4:11:58] Voice 11: first part of the motion okay well hang on

[4:12:02] Voice 6: i'm not that's doing i'm not

[4:12:05] Voice 6: seeing what i think i should be seeing it

[4:12:08] Trustee Patrick: says the local

[4:12:08] Voice 6: trust committee may

[4:12:09] Trustee Patrick: consider issuance

[4:12:10] Trustee Patrick: of

[4:12:11] Voice 6: a temporary use permit for short-term vacation that's the language

[4:12:14] Trustee Patrick: yeah after the alternate you know he's used the alternative motion beginning okay

[4:12:23] Voice 6: so uh moved and i hope seconded yes yes

[4:12:28] Voice 6: yes okay that um proposed by law number 119

[4:12:34] Voice 6: cited as and

[4:12:35] Voice 6: if I may just pick that up from the from the wording that bylaw number 107 be amended

[4:12:44] Voice 6: by don't sorry by bylaw 107 be amended in section 3.1.2.e1 to delete sorry

[4:12:56] Voice 15: stop so

[4:12:57] Voice 15: you're actually amending bylaw 119 right so you have to

[4:13:01] Voice 15: cite the item number like item 4

[4:13:02] Voice 15: item 4 be amended okay because the reference is to the base bylaw

[4:13:07] Voice 6: okay in bylaw 107 so the motion

[4:13:15] Voice 15: is to amend bylaw 119 item 4 i think is the one we're working on right yeah yeah okay

[4:13:22] Voice 15: okay so

[4:13:25] Voice 6: that the south fender island local trust committee proposed bylaw 109 cited south fender island

[4:13:30] Voice 6: official community plan bylaw number 107 2011 amendment number one 2020 um be amended as follows

[4:13:44] Voice 6: um that section four no sorry i'm i'm a little lost here yeah

[4:13:52] Voice 9: robert can you help

[4:13:54] Voice 9: section

[4:13:54] Voice 15: you're right the section four be amended by okay

[4:14:00] Voice 6: by deleting

[4:14:02] Voice 11: the first bullet

[4:14:04] Voice 11: Deleting

[4:14:05] Voice 6: the first bullet and

[4:14:06] Voice 11: replacing with and

[4:14:09] Voice 6: replacing with yeah with the local trust committee

[4:14:15] Voice 6: may consider issuance of temporary use permit for short-term vacation rental use on lots where a

[4:14:20] Voice 6: single-family dwelling or cottage is permitted by the land use bylaw on lands designated rural

[4:14:25] Voice 6: residential.

[4:14:26] Voice 11: That's correct.

[4:14:27] Voice 6: And further yeah in bullet number two remove the word regulations

[4:14:33] Voice 6: and replace the word right words include the words policies and guidelines correct that's it

[4:14:42] Voice 11: that's right hey

[4:14:43] Voice 6: gold star

[4:14:45] Trustee Patrick: so far excellent all right is there

[4:14:49] Trustee Patrick: any um any discussion on this

[4:14:52] Trustee Patrick: motion not i'll call the vote then all those in favor and that's carried hang on there kathy i

[4:15:05] Trustee Patrick: I think they're about to try a second one.

[4:15:07] Voice 10: I

[4:15:08] Voice 11: got a few.

[4:15:10] Voice 11: Okay.

[4:15:12] Voice 11: Okay, I'm assuming that we should bounce back to number two

[4:15:17] Voice 11: and it is recommended that we delete the background.

[4:15:23] Voice 11: And I don't want to see that policy loss.

[4:15:28] Voice 11: So I'd like to retain it unless there's some legal reason

[4:15:35] Voice 11: for changing it.

[4:15:37] Voice 11: but uh i think that policy is a good one yep

[4:15:41] Voice 15: so that would just be an amendment to bylaw 119 to

[4:15:43] Voice 15: rescind item two or delete item two okay sorry

[4:15:52] Voice 6: i thought i thought chair uh trustee uh right said

[4:15:56] Voice 6: he didn't want to lose that no

[4:15:59] Trustee Patrick: it's uh it's it's this is um we're talking about the bylaw

[4:16:03] Trustee Patrick: and the bylaw

[4:16:05] Trustee Patrick: makes the changes to the ocp so it's uh we're just talking about the bylaw

[4:16:09] Trustee Patrick: the amending bylaw

[4:16:11] Trustee Patrick: okay yeah

[4:16:12] Voice 11: number no okay so i'll move that the local uh like

[4:16:18] Voice 11: the south pender island local trust committee proposed bylaw number 119 cited the south

[4:16:24] Voice 11: pender island official community plan bylaw number 11 107 2011 amendment 1 2020 be amended

[4:16:34] Voice 11: by deleting number two item number two is

[4:16:40] Trustee Patrick: there a second trustee Thorne has

[4:16:44] Trustee Patrick: seconded so when you're ready Kathy you can read that back okay that the

[4:16:49] Voice 6: South Pender Island local trust committee amend proposed bylaw number

[4:16:55] Voice 6: 119 cited as 17 107 by deleting item number two thank

[4:17:04] Trustee Patrick: you okay any discussion

[4:17:06] Trustee Patrick: on this motion no

[4:17:07] Voice 12: and just because there's been a lot I mean for anybody trying to follow along

[4:17:10] Voice 12: I just you know just to double check that double double just to confirm and I don't Kim are you

[4:17:16] Voice 12: able to pull the the OCP back up on the on the screen and I guess I'm just looking at the bottom

[4:17:22] Voice 12: of sheet nine so that would suggest that the wording in that is going to remain as we see it

[4:17:29] Voice 12: now that's correct

[4:17:30] Planner Stockdill: specifically this sentence yeah yeah

[4:17:34] Trustee Patrick: okay any further discussion on this

[4:17:36] Trustee Patrick: motion i'll call the vote then all those in favor and that is carried are there any other changes to

[4:17:47] Trustee Patrick: bylaw 119 yes

[4:17:51] Voice 11: in clause uh number five and if i can jump uh to number six as well because they're

[4:17:58] Voice 11: both similar just different zones because of its in the words or this is

[4:18:09] Voice 11: an enabling statement if we are going to delete the words short-term vacation

[4:18:20] Voice 11: rental of a single-family dwelling then we I'd like to we add the policy that

[4:18:26] Voice 11: states the local trust committee may consider issuance of a temporary use permit for short-term

[4:18:32] Voice 11: vacation rental use on lots for a single family dwelling and a cottage or a cottage is permitted

[4:18:38] Voice 11: by land use bylaw on lands designated agriculture does that make sense kim and

[4:18:52] Planner Stockdill: you'd be adding that

[4:18:53] Planner Stockdill: that to section 3.5.2. So you would be adding, you would be adding a, H-I-J, J comes after I,

[4:19:07] Planner Stockdill: so you'd be adding a J here.

[4:19:10] Voice 12: Could you read that again, Steve? We're adding something here,

[4:19:14] Voice 12: so please read that out again.

[4:19:15] Voice 11: Well, what we're doing is basically, okay, I'll read it out.

[4:19:19] Voice 11: uh the ltc may consider issuance of a tup for short-term vacation rental use on lots where a

[4:19:29] Voice 11: single family dwelling or a cottage is permitted by the land use bylaw on lands designated

[4:19:34] Voice 11: agriculture oh

[4:19:36] Voice 15: yes right

[4:19:37] Voice 11: so

[4:19:41] Voice 15: you're still though amending the one above right um d4 right so you're

[4:19:53] Voice 15: not you're just at you're inserting a new provision somewhere yeah that's right in the

[4:19:59] Voice 15: amending bylaw a new

[4:20:01] Planner Stockdill: provision in section 3.5.2 right

[4:20:05] Voice 15: and it wouldn't be j because there's a j

[4:20:09] Voice 15: below it'll be okay yeah whatever

[4:20:12] Planner Stockdill: we don't need to put the um yeah

[4:20:14] Voice 15: you don't have the letter in

[4:20:15] Planner Stockdill: it'll

[4:20:16] Voice 15: be numbered accordingly yeah all

[4:20:18] Trustee Patrick: right did you want to try to um read that nice and

[4:20:23] Trustee Patrick: slow for Kathy Kathy are you ready fire away all right Steve all

[4:20:30] Voice 11: right Kathy the same preamble

[4:20:32] Voice 11: that the South Pender Island Local Trust Committee proposed bylaw number 119 cited as South Pender

[4:20:40] Voice 11: Island official community plan bylaw number 107 2011 amendment number 1 2020 be amended as follows

[4:20:51] Voice 11: to include in clause 3.1.2 the local trust committee may consider

[4:21:02] Voice 11: issuance of a temporary use permit for short-term vacation rental use on lots

[4:21:08] Voice 11: where a single-family dwelling or a cottage is permitted by the land use

[4:21:13] Voice 11: bylaw on lands designated agriculture. Was

[4:21:18] Trustee Patrick: that 3.5.2?

[4:21:20] Trustee Patrick: did you

[4:21:21] Voice 11: say 5.2 okay that's correct

[4:21:22] Voice 11: i thought yeah okay

[4:21:24] Trustee Patrick: yeah you said 3.1 i think oh did i

[4:21:26] Voice 11: yeah no doubt

[4:21:28] Trustee Patrick: 3.5.2 thank you

[4:21:30] Trustee Patrick: uh

[4:21:35] Voice 6: do you want me to read it back sure okay moved and seconded

[4:21:39] Voice 6: as steve said with the preamble if it's okay if i leave that out that the south pender island ltc

[4:21:45] Voice 6: um a man proposed sorry may consider issuance of a temporary use permit on lands where a single

[4:21:51] Voice 6: family dwelling or cottage are permitted um on lands which whoops

[4:21:58] Voice 6: where single family dwelling or cottage is permitted on lands designated no i'm permitted

[4:22:10] Voice 11: by the land use bylaw on lands designated agriculture okay

[4:22:16] Voice 6: it is permitted on a on the

[4:22:18] Voice 6: the land use bylaw where no

[4:22:22] Voice 11: on lands on lands okay designated agriculture got

[4:22:31] Voice 6: it okay

[4:22:32] Voice 11: one more

[4:22:33] Voice 6: time i'm

[4:22:35] Voice 11: okay with it i

[4:22:38] Trustee Patrick: guess it sounds like you're okay is that seconded seconded by trustee

[4:22:43] Trustee Patrick: thorn any discussion i'm going to call the vote all those in favor that's carried and then for

[4:22:56] Voice 11: for exactly the same rationale uh in number six um uh i'll move that the south pender island local

[4:23:05] Voice 11: trust committee proposed bylaw number 119 cited as south pender island official community plan

[4:23:11] Voice 11: bylaw number 107 2011 amendment number one 2020 be amended um in clause 3.6.2 the local it's same

[4:23:25] Voice 11: Same sentence, Kathy, except the end will say on lands designated forest.

[4:23:36] Voice 6: On lands designated forest.

[4:23:37] Planner Stockdill: I did make a point that it shouldn't be not or says the LTC may consider issuance of a TUP for STVR use on lots that do not have private managed forest land status and where a single family dwelling or cottage is permitted.

[4:23:55] Planner Stockdill: So this one's actually a little bit different.

[4:23:57] Planner Stockdill: And we may need, I don't know if Robert may want to comment on this, but what we want

[4:24:02] Planner Stockdill: to ensure is, or a local government cannot issue a permit or adopt a bylaw that may impact

[4:24:09] Planner Stockdill: those lands that are located within the private managed forest.

[4:24:14] Planner Stockdill: And so that's why I've added that section there.

[4:24:18] Voice 11: Would that mean that they would not be prohibited from running an STVR on those properties?

[4:24:24] Voice 15: They would not be prohibited under the Forest Managed Land Act.

[4:24:28] Voice 15: all right as long

[4:24:28] Voice 15: as we're not

[4:24:29] Voice 11: restricting their use on that that's right yeah i'm okay i'm okay

[4:24:32] Voice 11: with that so

[4:24:34] Trustee Patrick: are you making the change or you're adding yes

[4:24:36] Voice 11: i'll reread that the local trust

[4:24:39] Voice 11: committee may consider issuance of a temporary use permit for short-term vacation rental use

[4:24:45] Voice 11: on lots that do not have private managed forest land status and where a single family dwelling

[4:24:51] Voice 11: or cottage is permitted by the land use bylaw on lands designated forest so

[4:25:04] Voice 12: does that mean that

[4:25:05] Voice 12: on lots that do have private forest forest manage designation we're not restricting that they they've

[4:25:12] Voice 12: already got the ability to do that without without you know that's right

[4:25:15] Voice 12: outside of our arena we

[4:25:16] Voice 12: don't need to even be talking about in other words they can do it yep okay they

[4:25:20] Planner Stockdill: still have their right

[4:25:21] Planner Stockdill: to apply if they want to but a local government should not be approving a per a permit that could

[4:25:30] Planner Stockdill: restrict

[4:25:30] Voice 15: the word is restrict that's right

[4:25:32] Planner Stockdill: restrict uh force

[4:25:34] Voice 15: management activity okay

[4:25:37] Voice 15: so

[4:25:38] Planner Stockdill: it's just reinforcing that was

[4:25:42] Trustee Patrick: that second okay

[4:25:43] Voice 9: and

[4:25:44] Trustee Patrick: now kathy go ahead and um

[4:25:46] Voice 6: yeah i just

[4:25:47] Voice 6: had a question um my my note says uh lands that do not have private more more managed for status

[4:25:58] Voice 6: status is that correct that's

[4:26:00] Voice 15: correct okay

[4:26:01] Voice 6: okay move to second it um if i can skip the preamble

[4:26:06] Voice 6: that the sith bender island local trust committee may consider issuance of temporary use permit on

[4:26:11] Voice 6: lands that do not have private managed forest status and are designated forest in the ocp

[4:26:19] Voice 6: no

[4:26:20] Voice 11: uh it should read issuance of a temporary use permit for short-term vacation rental use

[4:26:26] Voice 11: on lots that do not have private managed forest land status i'm

[4:26:37] Planner Stockdill: not sure if again i have this

[4:26:38] Planner Stockdill: wording and i'm not sure if you can see it on my screen here ah yes

[4:26:47] Trustee Patrick: trustees in the future

[4:26:49] Trustee Patrick: please submit your emotions in writing your minute takers appreciate it as well as your

[4:26:58] Trustee Patrick: fellow trustees and

[4:27:01] Planner Stockdill: unfortunately um since i'm in a presentation mode i'm unable to put things

[4:27:06] Planner Stockdill: into the chat so i would have otherwise put that wording in there but i don't have the option for

[4:27:10] Planner Stockdill: whatever reason and kathy i can give it to you afterwards as well if it's helpful uh sure just

[4:27:18] Planner Stockdill: to confirm good yeah

[4:27:19] Trustee Patrick: all right so that was seconded i take it uh trustee horn and uh is there any

[4:27:23] Trustee Patrick: further discussion on this i'll call the vote then all those in favor i guess that's carried

[4:27:41] Trustee Patrick: did you have other changes that you were proposing yeah

[4:27:44] Voice 11: i'm afraid so

[4:27:47] Voice 11: um in uh eight two point six um uh the first one is um was already referred to by um

[4:28:00] Voice 11: plan of stock drill and that is to add the words other than the owner or permanent occupier at the

[4:28:06] Voice 11: end of the sentence for guideline 826a sorry

[4:28:16] Voice 12: steve that's where steve i'm uh

[4:28:20] Voice 11: that's uh number

[4:28:22] Trustee Patrick: 7a a

[4:28:24] Voice 11: no it's eight two no i

[4:28:27] Voice 11: know but the

[4:28:27] Trustee Patrick: bylaw number

[4:28:29] Voice 11: point a and it's at the end of the sentence

[4:28:32] Voice 11: yeah

[4:28:32] Trustee Patrick: okay

[4:28:34] Voice 12: oh i see this is where there were some missing words yeah

[4:28:37] Voice 11: yeah right

[4:28:37] Voice 12: okay so yeah

[4:28:39] Voice 11: can

[4:28:40] Voice 12: you read that one out again uh

[4:28:43] Voice 11: that the south pender island look do i have to go through this

[4:28:46] Voice 11: preamble every

[4:28:46] Voice 12: damn time okay

[4:28:48] Voice 11: the the the preamble be amended by adding the words other than the owner

[4:28:55] Voice 11: or permanent occupier at the end of the sentence for guideline 8.2.6 a right

[4:29:06] Voice 11: Kathy

[4:29:07] Trustee Patrick: that was item number I in number one of the recommend recommended okay

[4:29:12] Voice 6: if

[4:29:14] Trustee Patrick: that helps you I have it

[4:29:15] Planner Stockdill: highlighted on the screen as well if you can see that

[4:29:18] Planner Stockdill: yeah thanks

[4:29:19] Voice 6: Kim all

[4:29:22] Trustee Patrick: right is there a second on this the only by trustee

[4:29:26] Trustee Patrick: Thorn any discussion I'll call the vote all those in favor and that's carried okay

[4:29:36] Voice 11: uh I'm uh I don't

[4:29:38] Voice 11: know where the hell we are but number I I whatever that is two um you're

[4:29:46] Voice 12: on shoot which Steve just

[4:29:48] Voice 12: because yeah it is where where are you now well

[4:29:51] Voice 11: I'm trying to address the second part of what Kim

[4:29:55] Voice 11: mentioned at the first part by adding a guideline that says

[4:30:00] Voice 11: use permit for short-term vacation rental should not be issued in areas of known groundwater

[4:30:05] Voice 11: shortage based on available mapping unless the applicant can provide a rationale for that use

[4:30:12] Voice 11: or for use or i'd like to change the words actually can provide evidence for that use

[4:30:17] Voice 11: so

[4:30:20] Voice 15: it was uh kim kim had it highlighted on the screen a minute ago there yeah it's just the

[4:30:25] Voice 15: first recommendation yeah

[4:30:27] Voice 11: my screen is uh it's behind my everything else

[4:30:30] Voice 11: So the motion would be the usual preamble with amended by adding a new guideline that states

[4:30:46] Voice 11: a temporary use permit for short-term vacation rental should not be issued in areas of known

[4:30:54] Voice 11: groundwater shortage based on available mapping unless the applicant can provide evidence for the

[4:31:01] Voice 11: the use is

[4:31:04] Trustee Patrick: there a second um

[4:31:09] Voice 12: can we just talk about this for a minute um absolutely what would

[4:31:16] Voice 12: be the remedy to somebody um like i mean you know i guess the thing is um whether like if i'm

[4:31:24] Voice 12: building a property that's going to be where i can get an occupancy permit for for for that home

[4:31:32] Voice 12: but i've got an area of known groundwater shortage i guess we're talking groundwater

[4:31:38] Voice 12: groundwater in terms of a well that would, that, um, uh, that would supply water to that domestic

[4:31:44] Voice 12: water. Um, I mean, I guess it's a bit, it's a, I mean, I, you know, it's just, my, my challenge

[4:31:50] Voice 12: is a bit subjective is, is, is no one groundwater shortage. I mean, you know, even in my own case

[4:31:57] Voice 12: here, well logs are always a little bit inaccurate, but you know, the evidence had shown that on, on,

[4:32:03] Voice 12: on one of my properties, I had a third of a gallon a minute, which, which at face value is

[4:32:07] Voice 12: not a lot but then i set it up to a cistern i sip the water you know you know that works out with

[4:32:14] Voice 12: seven like it works out to a fair bit of water over a 24-hour period so i guess the question is

[4:32:19] Voice 12: you know i'm just concerned that like peter and others have said is you know what does it mean

[4:32:23] Voice 12: in sections where we talked about demonstrating adequate water sewage capacity are we are we

[4:32:29] Voice 12: wandering down that road here because if i'm able to get an occupancy permit um then why wouldn't i

[4:32:37] Voice 12: to be, you know, why would I not be able to operate an STVR there?

[4:32:42] Voice 11: Well, I can give you

[4:32:43] Voice 11: a couple of reasons. One is it is a more intensive use. And from a practical

[4:32:52] Voice 11: nature, I know of a property that is in an area of showing less groundwater. And they had a family

[4:33:03] Voice 11: reunion in July and their well has not recovered yet and that was a weekend reunion and they went

[4:33:11] Voice 11: through all their water and it has not replenished since. Now if that impacted say if that was my

[4:33:18] Voice 11: neighbor and if that impacted my water supply I'd be a little concerned. So because SCBRs are

[4:33:27] Voice 11: are considered to be a more intensive use.

[4:33:30] Voice 11: This is simply a precautionary measure.

[4:33:33] Voice 11: But of course, that's just my opinion.

[4:33:39] Voice 12: No, no, I get the intent.

[4:33:40] Voice 12: I'm just concerned that we're gonna be,

[4:33:47] Voice 12: I don't know if there's some other language,

[4:33:49] Voice 12: it's just that in areas of known groundwater shortage

[4:33:52] Voice 12: and I'm wondering, so I guess based on,

[4:33:56] Voice 12: Is the thinking that once this groundwater mapping project is finalized, that we're going to have some, I don't know, a scale saying these are areas of, and some defined quantities of water that categorize a property as either having a shortage or not having a shortage?

[4:34:22] Voice 12: I mean, how do we put real data to what we mean here?

[4:34:25] Voice 12: how

[4:34:26] Voice 11: if how about if we uh change the word should to may well

[4:34:31] Voice 12: yeah i mean i'm not

[4:34:32] Voice 11: i'm not and that

[4:34:33] Voice 11: allows some decision making on the based on the evidence of the ltc may here and

[4:34:40] Voice 12: i realize this

[4:34:40] Voice 12: is an evolving topic because you know we're we're going to be hopefully getting more information

[4:34:45] Voice 12: to help us guide decisions through this water mapping thing i mean yeah if we had if we if it

[4:34:51] Voice 12: it wasn't rather than getting should not, but, but, um, you know,

[4:34:55] Voice 12: something a little, something where we're going to at least want to think

[4:34:57] Voice 12: about it, but there may be ration. I mean, maybe somebody is taking,

[4:35:00] Voice 12: as I suggested in my own case, they have a very little amount of water,

[4:35:04] Voice 12: but they've got, maybe they've got a bunch of underground cisterns, uh,

[4:35:08] Voice 12: that they, um, you know, pump to, uh, and they,

[4:35:12] Voice 12: so they're never putting stress on the well. I mean, so I, you know,

[4:35:15] Voice 12: you'd want to know that there was,

[4:35:16] Voice 12: there were some remedies that somebody could, could develop to give,

[4:35:19] Voice 12: to give comfort that that there wasn't going to be an issue or it wasn't going to affect the well

[4:35:24] Voice 12: the wells of the neighboring properties so i'm okay if we use the word what may rather than

[4:35:29] Voice 12: what's there now okay consider that a

[4:35:33] Voice 11: friendly amendment hasn't

[4:35:35] Trustee Patrick: been seconded yet

[4:35:36] Voice 11: i know i'm just giving him the option

[4:35:40] Voice 11: not the direction

[4:35:41] Voice 11: um

[4:35:42] Trustee Patrick: so kathy did you uh catch the word there he's instead of calling it should

[4:35:47] Trustee Patrick: should not be issued he's saying may not or may not is that the word that's

[4:35:52] Voice 11: correct may not be

[4:35:52] Voice 11: issued okay

[4:35:55] Trustee Patrick: is that seconded a second by trustee thorn uh is there any discussion on this i think

[4:36:03] Trustee Patrick: just to add to what your conversation uh trustee thorn is it's just just that these are going to

[4:36:08] Trustee Patrick: be individual applications that will be considered and an applicant can show you know that either

[4:36:14] Trustee Patrick: yes the mapping might show they're in a in an area that's problematic and maybe they're they're you

[4:36:19] Trustee Patrick: know their system functions and works and they can prove that and

[4:36:23] Voice 11: i think we have to be mindful of

[4:36:24] Voice 11: the policy statement uh 4.2.2 as well or is it 4.4.2 where it says that uh we we shouldn't allow

[4:36:33] Voice 11: intensified intensive use and water shortage areas true

[4:36:37] Voice 9: yeah that's true any

[4:36:39] Trustee Patrick: further discussions

[4:36:41] Voice 11: none

[4:36:41] Trustee Patrick: okay i'll call the vote all those in favor and that's carried um

[4:36:51] Voice 11: e this is a big one this

[4:36:53] Voice 11: is the one that we had some concerns about the total number and it is a little challenging

[4:37:03] Voice 11: because we don't have a registration and we have no idea the exact number of SDVRs operating and

[4:37:12] Voice 11: those that are operating of course will continue to operate. There was some different ideas going

[4:37:20] Voice 11: around about how to do it. On this particular proposed bylaw it was listed at 20 and I got

[4:37:33] Voice 11: some feedback from that and also some flack and in most of those conversations I heard back that

[4:37:42] Voice 11: people felt that a percentage of the existing homes would be a better way of that sort of

[4:37:48] Voice 11: restriction uh and so uh i'd like to make the amendment that uh the total number of operating

[4:37:57] Voice 11: stvrs would not be greater than 10 of the existing homes and currently that number would be about 28

[4:38:11] Voice 11: and this is where we need help um

[4:38:16] Trustee Patrick: need help on the wording or you want to make that no just uh

[4:38:21] Voice 11: just to to see get some other ideas and what people picked up on through the public hearing

[4:38:28] Voice 12: Well, you know, I mean, just by, I mean, this has always been a tough thing.

[4:38:34] Voice 12: I mean, I'm going back looking, I looked over the last couple of days at some of the

[4:38:37] Voice 12: correspondence that we've had from members of the public, from the community, from, from

[4:38:45] Voice 12: the APC, from people that operate STVRs that, you know, I guess one of the things is that

[4:38:53] Voice 12: people have at various times said, there's no problems.

[4:38:57] Voice 12: problems, you know, the trend lines. I mean, I know back in 2019, one of the residents had

[4:39:05] Voice 12: written to us, quote, the trustees feel we are in grave danger of being overrun with STVRs for

[4:39:10] Voice 12: various reasons, including the fact that we were featured in Forbes magazine and noted that the

[4:39:16] Voice 12: trend was that there was less STVRs operating than in the past year or so. So what was the problem?

[4:39:21] Voice 12: problem. You know, back in 2019, the APC advised that approximately 8% of the South Pender homes

[4:39:27] Voice 12: operate as an STDR. And the biggest challenge is that we never had any data. And, you know,

[4:39:38] Voice 12: that's one of the fundamental objectives of what we're trying to do is, you know, rather than

[4:39:45] Voice 12: having this ongoing conjecture and debate about whether there's too many, whether there's not

[4:39:50] Voice 12: enough. You know, I think one of the things we want to do is get to it. It's tough to know what

[4:39:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement (probable): the

[4:39:55] Voice 12: number is when we don't have any data. That's the fundamental issue. I know, you know, Gordy

[4:40:00] Voice 12: Duncan said, I guess he, I don't know if it was a complaint or a lament or a scolding, but he said,

[4:40:05] Voice 12: after all this time, trustees still have no idea of the number of SDVRs operating and that he finds

[4:40:10] Voice 12: this disconcerting. Well, that's what we're trying to do here. I mean, we're trying to actually get

[4:40:15] Voice 12: some numbers that have never ever uh existed precisely because everybody felt there was no

[4:40:21] Voice 12: need for any regulations and no need to collect any you know and and by extension no no data was

[4:40:26] Voice 12: collected so i don't know what that that should be but if we came up with if if we were believing the

[4:40:32] Voice 12: apc that there was eight percent and listening to to to jane who's you know i'm sure follows

[4:40:42] Voice 12: is very closely saying that that the trend is going downward and that she knew of at least

[4:40:46] Voice 12: three properties that had stvrs that no longer operated stvrs and i would think that if we had

[4:40:53] Voice 12: a number of somewhere around 10 percent that that that would be seemingly um a greater number than

[4:41:01] Voice 12: what we have right now so i i don't know i throw that out for thought but that's some context for

[4:41:05] Voice 12: the dilemma we're in well

[4:41:07] Trustee Patrick: part of the issue is you've got you're gonna have an unknown number

[4:41:11] Trustee Patrick: number of grandfathered and then this would be in addition to that so that's where you know this

[4:41:17] Voice 11: would be a totality but that doesn't

[4:41:19] Voice 11: read that way though i know i

[4:41:20] Voice 11: know it doesn't that's where i need

[4:41:22] Voice 11: help with that's where i need help because i think i think we want the total number of stvrs on the

[4:41:29] Voice 11: island at 10 of the existing homes and if we included the operating then we're looking at 20

[4:41:36] Voice 11: 20%.

[4:41:36] Planner Stockdill: Planner Stockwell? Yeah, again, these guidelines are tied to a temporary permit

[4:41:42] Planner Stockdill: application. So again, what triggers these guidelines or us, you know, staff and LTC

[4:41:50] Planner Stockdill: reviewing them is when we look at an application. So in terms of trying to address those numbers

[4:41:57] Planner Stockdill: that are legal non-conforming, I'm not sure if adding a guideline in the TEP section is

[4:42:02] Planner Stockdill: the best way to do it I haven't it's a difficult one to address but in terms of

[4:42:11] Planner Stockdill: having a guideline that either states a specific number which we have currently or a percentage

[4:42:18] Planner Stockdill: from a staff perspective it's easier to deal or work with a number rather than a percentage

[4:42:25] Planner Stockdill: because then we would constantly not that there's many dwelling units being built on South Pender

[4:42:30] Planner Stockdill: but the number will change right so we'll constantly be doing that calculation of 10

[4:42:34] Planner Stockdill: so if the ltc is considering a cap uh staff would support a number versus a percentage in terms of

[4:42:43] Planner Stockdill: having sorry a 20 short-term vacation rental units or 28 in terms of issuance of tups

[4:42:50] Planner Stockdill: i don't know if the ltc will see we'll have 20 temporary use permits

[4:42:58] Planner Stockdill: issue to be to be frank based on the fact that you have there will be a quite a few number of

[4:43:05] Planner Stockdill: legal non-conforming short-term vacation rentals and they have that right um under the local

[4:43:10] Planner Stockdill: government act i'm not sure if robert wants to speak to this

[4:43:12] Voice 15: yeah to put it in perspective i

[4:43:13] Voice 15: think in north pender the maximum number of temporary use permits that were ever issued was

[4:43:19] Voice 15: 13 something like that all but one were in magic lake states and galliano i think it's got as high

[4:43:25] Voice 15: 16 temporary use permits for all of Caliano.

[4:43:30] Trustee Patrick: And I was going to say, this issue, if we're

[4:43:33] Trustee Patrick: successful in getting the conversation moving toward business licenses and getting CRD into

[4:43:38] Trustee Patrick: the equation, there'll be other people, there's going to be a lot of work that needs to be done

[4:43:42] Trustee Patrick: to determine, you know, what those numbers are and so forth. So you've got lots of time, I think,

[4:43:52] Trustee Patrick: by just, if you just want to put a number in there.

[4:43:54] Voice 11: Well, that's a good, that's a good point,

[4:43:56] Voice 11: Chair because I think that's right I so I would suggest that why don't we go

[4:44:02] Voice 11: with the number 28 which is a 10% we'll say 28 existing or operate total number

[4:44:08] Voice 11: of TVRs on the honor will be 28 and if that changes or evidence comes in where

[4:44:13] Voice 11: it needs to be amended and changed and moved up or down or whatever we can do

[4:44:18] Voice 11: that or what the LTC can do it next term whatever however you're you're wanting

[4:44:23] Trustee Patrick: wanting to change the wording. I mean, right now it just says 20 temporary use permits.

[4:44:28] Trustee Patrick: Yeah,

[4:44:28] Voice 11: it should be the total number of STBRs, whether

[4:44:32] Voice 11: they're in a TUP situation or not.

[4:44:36] Voice 12: Sorry, sorry. I mean, I think I'm being guided by what Kim is saying here.

[4:44:41] Voice 12: What we're talking about here is we don't have control of issuing or not issuing,

[4:44:47] Voice 12: you know, STBR rights to people that are already legally non-conforming. So it's kind of hard

[4:44:53] Voice 12: I'm wondering if we should look at something I'm just going to throw the idea out here

[4:44:58] Voice 12: and these are guidelines the trustees uh should not approve more than we can call it 20 or it

[4:45:05] Voice 12: can be a different number but here's the idea the trust local trust committee should not approve

[4:45:08] Voice 12: more than 20 short-term vacation rental temporary use permits and shall take into consideration

[4:45:15] Voice 12: consideration, the number of existing legally non-conforming STVRs as noted on the registry

[4:45:28] Voice 12: or something to that effect. I mean, no, we don't have the registry today, but I mean, I think

[4:45:32] Voice 12: we're going to have a registry that's going to come through this thing. And so we can approve

[4:45:35] Voice 12: up to 20. I'm reading this as that whatever is out there as a legal non-conforming at this point

[4:45:42] Voice 12: in time whatever that number is that that this would say that we can approve an up to an

[4:45:47] Voice 12: additional 20 of them doesn't say we have to do 20 but it's up to an additional 20 and that that

[4:45:53] Voice 12: the decision makers will want to be mindful of the ones that are already out there when when giving

[4:45:58] Voice 12: consideration yeah

[4:46:02] Voice 11: well i wouldn't second a motion like that sorry cam um because i i think there's

[4:46:08] Voice 11: been too much uh comment in in the community um that some felt that there's there's there's far

[4:46:15] Voice 11: too many as we as exists now so um and then there are some that saying we should just blow it wide

[4:46:22] Voice 11: open so um 10 of the existing homes came up a couple of times which sometimes the percentage

[4:46:29] Voice 11: changed. So if the purpose is to regulate and to sort of establish some sort of ceiling number of

[4:46:44] Voice 11: beds that we have on the island, then I think we have to acknowledge what's there now,

[4:46:49] Voice 11: what is being used, and not just keep increasing them until we have, like I'd rather go under

[4:46:59] Voice 11: and change it to up and go up and then say whoops that's too many and go down

[4:47:03] Voice 11: yeah that's virtually impossible we're stuck in that show right now but i

[4:47:07] Trustee Patrick: mean if you're worried

[4:47:08] Voice 11: that you're

[4:47:08] Trustee Patrick: already at capacity then why are you introducing new temporary use permits if you think

[4:47:15] Trustee Patrick: there's if there's no more that can be built or built um added i

[4:47:22] Voice 11: think i think i think there is

[4:47:23] Voice 11: more room to get up to a 10 yeah

[4:47:27] Voice 12: i think i think what we're i mean i think steven i didn't say

[4:47:30] Voice 12: 20 should be the number. I said, I'm just using that as an example. I think

[4:47:34] Voice 12: whatever number we

[4:47:35] Voice 12: call it, it has to, because we can't talk about STVRs. We're not making a decision about things

[4:47:43] Voice 12: that are grandfathered. We're just talking about how many TUPs we're issuing under this. So I think

[4:47:48] Voice 12: we need to say that the trustee did not approve more than X short-term vacation rental use permits

[4:47:55] Voice 12: without taking into consideration, or they may, I'm sorry, not shall not, that they should not

[4:48:02] Voice 12: approve more than X number without taking into consideration the number of existing short-term

[4:48:08] Voice 12: vacation rentals as presented on the registry of short-term vacation rentals, or something to that

[4:48:13] Voice 12: effect. Now, if that 20 is not necessarily the number, perhaps, if in fact, going back to my

[4:48:23] Voice 12: of comment a minute ago if in fact the apc is correct there was eight eight percent of single

[4:48:29] Voice 12: family dwellings were operating stvrs and jane's comment was that that number was trending down so

[4:48:35] Voice 12: i don't know if it's eight or seven percent and you're saying it should be no more than ten percent

[4:48:40] Voice 12: that would suggest that there still is some room for qps to be issued any

[4:48:48] Voice 11: ideas kim how that might

[4:48:49] Voice 11: be worded well

[4:48:51] Planner Stockdill: i just want to make two points that may may help clarify things may not the first is

[4:48:56] Planner Stockdill: is this idea of a registry for the legal non-conforming short-term vacation rentals this

[4:49:01] Planner Stockdill: would be a voluntary registry we can't necessarily you know hunt people down and force them to sign

[4:49:07] Planner Stockdill: up for this registry we can do our very best to get this list an opportunity for a short-term

[4:49:13] Planner Stockdill: vacation operator is that it could be you know people if they're looking for short-term vacation

[4:49:18] Planner Stockdill: rentals they can go to this list right and there's a list of all the short-term vacation rentals but

[4:49:22] Planner Stockdill: yeah so the first thing is it would be a voluntary registration the second is there is a draft

[4:49:29] Planner Stockdill: guideline and it's C that states that the LTC should consider the cumulative effects of

[4:49:34] Planner Stockdill: neighborhood and islands of all temporary use permits issues for short-term vacation rentals

[4:49:40] Planner Stockdill: so there's already a guideline that's turning the LTC's mind to how is this how is approving

[4:49:46] Planner Stockdill: whatever application they have in front of them how is it impacting the community how is it

[4:49:51] Planner Stockdill: impacting the neighborhood how is it impacting the island should it be approved or not so there

[4:49:57] Planner Stockdill: is some language already there to support that what are the cumulative effects of approving this

[4:50:03] Planner Stockdill: this permit

[4:50:04] Voice 10: okay well

[4:50:08] Voice 11: then uh perhaps the cap is unnecessary i just hope we don't turn around

[4:50:17] Voice 11: two years and say geez i wish we put a cap on it you can

[4:50:21] Trustee Patrick: always modify guideline if you you know

[4:50:23] Trustee Patrick: if you start noticing a trend or

[4:50:25] Trustee Patrick: the data starts to show you know that this would be changed you

[4:50:29] Trustee Patrick: know you come and change e to a different number again it's

[4:50:32] Voice 11: just the time that it takes to get

[4:50:34] Voice 11: to get that amendment through this process has been over two years already so by that time we

[4:50:41] Voice 11: can get we can get a few more going anyway um this is the point

[4:50:45] Planner Stockdill: where you want to make sure

[4:50:46] Planner Stockdill: the bylaw is what you want it to be and if 20 is too high or too low this is an opportunity to

[4:50:51] Planner Stockdill: amend it again it's a guideline you know so uh something to keep in mind but if you're if the

[4:50:57] Planner Stockdill: ltc isn't comfortable with the number 20 it could be reduced to 10 15 or it could be increased to 28

[4:51:02] Planner Stockdill: this is certainly the time to do that i

[4:51:07] Voice 12: mean is qualifying language it does it if does it does it

[4:51:11] Voice 12: um i mean i get your point that there's other things here to talk about is taking into account

[4:51:16] Voice 12: the cumulative impacts you're right about that kim i'm i'm wondering whether then uh

[4:51:25] Voice 12: whether we say that the local trust committee should not approve more than 10 short-term

[4:51:29] Voice 12: vacation rentals, and then just clarify it, is it wrong to say over and above those that are

[4:51:38] Voice 12: operating, that are currently operating as legal non-conforming? Does that muddy the water saying

[4:51:44] Voice 12: that, or does it just kind of help remind people that this is in addition to what's already out

[4:51:48] Voice 12: there?

[4:51:50] Planner Stockdill: I would assume that the LTC, whichever LTC is reviewing an application, would keep that in

[4:51:56] Planner Stockdill: back then reminds that they would know that there is not conforming so i don't necessarily think you

[4:52:00] Planner Stockdill: need to add it um and again guidelines are only as strong as the ltc at that day reviewing these

[4:52:07] Planner Stockdill: that application so there could be an ltc that says oh it says 20 but we're not comfortable

[4:52:11] Planner Stockdill: with that we feel like we could approve more or uh you know there could be

[4:52:16] Voice 9: another ltc that says

[4:52:17] Voice 9: or

[4:52:17] Planner Stockdill: less or the another ltc that says 20 is the number we're sticking to that and this is the

[4:52:23] Planner Stockdill: hard and fast rule and

[4:52:25] Trustee Patrick: they could you could issue a standing resolution if you wanted to if you feel

[4:52:31] Trustee Patrick: you were at the top and you're not going to entertain any more applications because we

[4:52:35] Trustee Patrick: believe we're at you know the top um so there's other ways of doing that that won't take two years

[4:52:40] Trustee Patrick: to get there okay

[4:52:41] Voice 11: and scratch it well

[4:52:46] Voice 12: scratch scratch just leave

[4:52:49] Trustee Patrick: it as 20 leave it alone as

[4:52:51] Trustee Patrick: as no

[4:52:53] Voice 11: just uh leave out leave out the cap don't put a number don't put anything i think that's

[4:52:57] Voice 12: where

[4:52:57] Voice 11: cam's coming to no

[4:52:59] Voice 12: no that's not where i'm going no there's a misunderstanding here

[4:53:03] Voice 12: i'm just i'm talking about what is the number that we want let's agree upon a number

[4:53:10] Voice 12: of tups that were that we're issuing for short-term vacation rentals that's a separate

[4:53:16] Voice 12: question than than um yeah

[4:53:18] Voice 10: that kind of well yeah how

[4:53:22] Voice 12: many how many tups for short-term vacation

[4:53:24] Voice 12: rentals are we comfortable issuing that's

[4:53:29] Voice 11: that that's a little awkward and i'm not sure if it's

[4:53:31] Voice 11: not fettering the discretion because if some of the uh grandfathered um say say 15 of the

[4:53:40] Voice 11: the grandfathered ones pack it up and we're only going to issue 10 then there's five people that

[4:53:50] Voice 11: applications that are wanting to refill the well are not going to be considered so

[4:53:56] Voice 12: but i mean

[4:53:58] Voice 11: no i

[4:53:59] Voice 12: would here here's what you know may long live all of the people on our island that are

[4:54:05] Voice 12: operating stvrs i wish them health and longevity but you know perhaps over time you know like

[4:54:11] Voice 12: like anything, people are going to, to your point, Steve, some people are going to perhaps no longer

[4:54:18] Voice 12: operate it. And so in theory, I mean, I guess if somebody could buy their property and keep

[4:54:24] Voice 12: operating the STVRs, and I guess because the use runs with the property, not with the person. So,

[4:54:29] Voice 12: but assuming that wasn't the case,

[4:54:31] Voice 9: over

[4:54:32] Voice 12: many years, there would be seemingly less

[4:54:38] Voice 12: STVRs that were operating under the grandfather clause provisions and so I would think the prudent

[4:54:43] Voice 12: thing would do is you monitor this thing and as the years go by and now we you know hopefully we

[4:54:50] Voice 12: and again I know the registry is voluntary but but maybe over time we we do get a better glimpse

[4:54:55] Voice 12: of how many STVRs are operating out there currently so whatever that number is it goes

[4:55:00] Voice 12: down to a smaller number and then we would calibrate this this guideline um um accordingly

[4:55:08] Voice 12: so maybe one day someday there'll be nobody operating in stbr with grandfather clause

[4:55:12] Voice 12: provisions and so certainly if the number right now was magically 10 it would be too low because

[4:55:18] Voice 12: because you know it's it's an appropriate number for today perhaps but in 30 years maybe the number

[4:55:24] Voice 12: should be 35 but you you gotta you gotta take that into account based on the dwindling number of of

[4:55:31] Voice 12: legal non-conforming that that's all my point is yeah

[4:55:35] Voice 11: i hear that i'm just not sure how to

[4:55:36] Voice 11: does

[4:55:38] Voice 12: that make any sense to you robert or kim yep

[4:55:43] Voice 15: i totally get where you're coming from um

[4:55:46] Voice 15: yeah but you know like i'm saying you know the ltc has that that cumulative impacts to kind of

[4:55:53] Voice 15: of take into account and circumstances might change and you know based on the experience on

[4:55:58] Voice 15: galliano north pender and saturna you know south pender is not not going to see a lot of tup

[4:56:03] Voice 15: applications um so

[4:56:06] Voice 12: if we set the number 10 and these are tups it gives a lot of it gives it i

[4:56:11] Voice 12: mean i don't think 10 is going to ruin the character of our island over what we have now

[4:56:14] Voice 12: it doesn't mean we have to give them if there's if as we take into account all the other cumulative

[4:56:19] Voice 12: effects of things if we see that you know to gordy duncan's comment last year that he was

[4:56:24] Voice 12: lamenting that he had a bnb on one side and stv on the other side you know in we'd look at what

[4:56:29] Voice 12: was going on as we made as we made um a decision but you know i would be personally i mean just to

[4:56:37] Voice 12: keep this ball rolling i i i make i would i would make a motion that that should become 10 and it

[4:56:42] Voice 12: It relates strictly to new TUPs and not to STVRs that are already out there.

[4:56:52] Voice 12: Up to 10.

[4:56:55] Voice 10: Okay.

[4:57:02] Voice 11: Make the motion.

[4:57:06] Voice 12: Fair enough.

[4:57:07] Voice 12: Yeah.

[4:57:08] Voice 12: I can read all this verbiage.

[4:57:10] Voice 12: Hang on.

[4:57:11] Voice 12: No.

[4:57:12] Voice 12: Have you got it there?

[4:57:13] Voice 12: You've got to find it first.

[4:57:18] Voice 11: Just say the usual preamble.

[4:57:21] Voice 12: Yeah.

[4:57:21] Voice 12: I make a motion that the South Pender Island local trust committee bylaw number 119

[4:57:27] Voice 12: cited as South Pender Island official community bylaw plan number 107 2011 amendment number 2020

[4:57:38] Voice 12: be amended as follows that 7e yeah sub e that the local trust committee should not approve

[4:57:48] Voice 12: approve more than 10 short-term vacation rental temporary use permits.

[4:57:56] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, so I think the amendment is to change just from 20 to 10.

[4:58:00] Voice 11: Correct.

[4:58:04] Voice 11: Okay.

[4:58:04] Voice 11: Is that seconded?

[4:58:06] Voice 11: Yeah, I'll second it.

[4:58:07] Voice 11: I'm not thrilled, but I'll second it.

[4:58:10] Trustee Patrick: Kathy, how did you follow?

[4:58:15] Trustee Patrick: Yes,

[4:58:16] Voice 6: I'm all good with that.

[4:58:17] Voice 6: So that's 7E,

[4:58:18] Trustee Patrick: change from 20 to 10.

[4:58:22] Trustee Patrick: Okay, is there any discussion?

[4:58:25] Voice 3: Yep.

[4:58:25] Voice 3: I

[4:58:26] Trustee Patrick: mean I'll like I said I'm fingers crossed I think time has changed that the conversation

[4:58:31] Trustee Patrick: with the CRD business licenses has to come whether it's here

[4:58:35] Trustee Patrick: next year three years from now I think

[4:58:38] Trustee Patrick: it's we're close and that we need to help that conversation come and that there would be you

[4:58:43] Trustee Patrick: know a considerable work that needs to be done as to you know what is the capacity what does

[4:58:48] Trustee Patrick: the community want it would be there'd be a lot of conversations on numbers in particular

[4:58:55] Trustee Patrick: So, is there any further discussion?

[4:58:59] Trustee Patrick: Call the vote.

[4:59:00] Trustee Patrick: All those in favor?

[4:59:02] Trustee Patrick: And that's carried.

[4:59:08] Voice 10: All righty-tighty.

[4:59:09] Voice 11: Aye.

[4:59:14] Voice 11: This requirement is mentioned several times, and it gets a little bothersome and a little

[4:59:20] Voice 11: crazy.

[4:59:20] Voice 11: So I would prefer to remove J where it's referred to and in K4 where it's referred to and simply reword I to say the temporary use permit should require that the owner or other designated contact be available on North or South Pender Island by telephone or email at all times when the short-term vacation rental is in use and to provide the name and contact information to guests and adjacent residents.

[4:59:50] Voice 11: neighbors.

[4:59:57] Trustee Patrick: Okay, so you're gonna have to assemble all this.

[5:00:00] Trustee Patrick: So you're going to have some removals and add that.

[5:00:03] Trustee Patrick: So that's coming out of,

[5:00:06] Trustee Patrick: you're going to remove all of J or just remove reference to

[5:00:10] Voice 11: remove

[5:00:11] Trustee Patrick: all of J.

[5:00:12] Voice 11: I can't see it. Just say yes.

[5:00:18] Trustee Patrick: So you're proposing removing all of J.

[5:00:21] Trustee Patrick: Delete

[5:00:22] Voice 11: J and delete K four.

[5:00:26] Trustee Patrick: K four.

[5:00:28] Trustee Patrick: And then amend I.

[5:00:31] Trustee Patrick: I,

[5:00:33] Voice 11: to say the temporary use permit should require that the owner or other designated contact

[5:00:45] Voice 11: be available on North or South Pender Island by telephone or email at all times when the

[5:00:53] Voice 11: short-term vacation rental is in use and to provide the name and contact information

[5:00:59] Voice 11: to guests and adjacent neighbors. And that covers all three.

[5:01:11] Trustee Patrick: All right, Kathy, how are you doing? And I think he's making that motion. So how are you doing there, Kathy? Did you follow?

[5:01:22] Voice 6: Yeah, I think I've got that. Deleting J and K4 and amending item I to add at the end of that sentence and to provide the name and contact information to guests and adjacent owners.

[5:01:41] Voice 14: That's correct.

[5:01:42] Voice 6: Are you making

[5:01:43] Trustee Patrick: that motion, Trustee Wright?

[5:01:45] Voice 11: Yes, I am.

[5:01:46] Voice 11: is

[5:01:47] Trustee Patrick: there a second to that motion yes

[5:01:50] Voice 11: uh

[5:01:52] Trustee Patrick: is there any discussion call the vote all those in favor

[5:01:58] Trustee Patrick: not to carry um

[5:02:05] Voice 11: this this probably doesn't matter much at all but in k1 i just think that's

[5:02:13] Voice 11: i just think that's unnecessary yeah yeah

[5:02:18] Voice 11: it's um l3 uh i think could be removed

[5:02:25] Voice 11: because that's pretty much covered in k8 at the very bottom

[5:02:34] Voice 12: k8 there is no k is there oh

[5:02:38] Voice 11: yeah down there oh l sorry l8 so leave eight and get rid of three steve

[5:02:56] Voice 12: i get what you're

[5:02:56] Voice 12: trying to say i guess i'm wondering if one thing um maybe this is a you know a different way of

[5:03:05] Voice 12: looking at it is if if we were to remove the references to may to september and then just

[5:03:10] Voice 12: keep establish the date during which the use may occur would that perhaps if you were a

[5:03:16] Voice 12: somebody that was considering this it might create more uncertainty that maybe there was

[5:03:21] Voice 12: going to be restrictions on on on days outside of the parameters between may and september whereas

[5:03:27] Voice 12: you if you left if you you know there's more like okay if somebody can um establish the dates which

[5:03:34] Voice 12: which may occur, somebody's mind might go, well, are they going to, I can't do it over Easter or

[5:03:40] Voice 12: maybe can't do it at Christmas. Whereas if we left the references to May to September,

[5:03:44] Voice 12: then it would give people a sense that, you know, that's where potentially the, you know,

[5:03:51] Voice 12: there could be a governor on how many days you can operate.

[5:03:55] Voice 11: Well, I think we're kind of doing

[5:03:57] Voice 11: that from May 1st to September and that was primarily in there to try and limit

[5:04:07] Voice 11: so-called over tourism that we would flood the visitors during the high season.

[5:04:16] Voice 11: But on the other hand the people that are operating SCVRs have said if they can't operate

[5:04:23] Voice 11: operate then when are they going to operate because it's going to eat a huge chunk of their

[5:04:28] Voice 11: their um dollars so i i'm a little hesitant to say uh may 1st to september particular but

[5:04:40] Voice 11: if we can establish the dates during which then there may be a situation where we say from may

[5:04:46] Voice 11: to september you can't operate we may turn around and say you know some of the neighbors say well

[5:04:52] Voice 11: that's can we just hold off on I don't know I don't know I'm just saying that it

[5:04:59] Voice 11: eight seems to give us the ability to establish the dates during which they can occur and three

[5:05:08] Voice 11: is more prescriptive that that those are the dates only that we're going to limit so maybe

[5:05:17] Voice 11: if you want to leave if you want to leave three then I'd say get rid of eight or

[5:05:27] Voice 12: do you combine

[5:05:27] Voice 12: I mean, do you say something along the lines of establish the dates during which uses may occur and with consideration given to the number of days between May 1st to September 30th in consideration of X, Y, Z or whatever?

[5:05:49] Voice 12: It's

[5:05:49] Voice 11: getting a little wordy.

[5:05:51] Voice 12: I was actually trying to combine two.

[5:05:53] Voice 11: Does that make sense?

[5:05:54] Voice 11: Can I ask Planner Stockdale if that makes sense?

[5:05:57] Voice 11: or sorry sorry sorry to pull you into this no

[5:06:00] Planner Stockdill: that's okay um you lost me at the very end there

[5:06:04] Planner Stockdill: trustee thorn i think you can combine the two um and just

[5:06:08] Voice 12: keep it short

[5:06:09] Planner Stockdill: and sweet like establish

[5:06:10] Planner Stockdill: the dates during which the use may occur specifically for the or not specifically but

[5:06:16] Planner Stockdill: okay

[5:06:16] Voice 12: sure we don't have to give all the rationales i think we know what they are

[5:06:19] Voice 12: just

[5:06:19] Planner Stockdill: maybe the months yeah

[5:06:21] Voice 12: with particular consideration given to the period of time

[5:06:25] Voice 12: from may 1st to september 30th in a calendar year yes and

[5:06:29] Voice 12: then and then that that simplifies it

[5:06:33] Voice 12: so that makes

[5:06:34] Voice 11: sense yep and then we delete

[5:06:36] Voice 11: and then we delete eight is that correct

[5:06:38] Voice 11: yeah

[5:06:39] Voice 12: we take we take the we take up delete some like so it would read and it's in it's

[5:06:45] Voice 12: i guess it would read um in its final form um the trustee in addition to other conditions the

[5:06:52] Voice 12: local trust committee may consider appropriate in some situations the

[5:06:56] Voice 12: permit may establish the dates during which these may occur with particular

[5:07:01] Voice 12: consideration given to the period from May 1st to September 30th in a calendar

[5:07:06] Voice 12: year.

[5:07:07] Voice 11: Okay if you're happy with that and that's your motion I'll second it. Okay

[5:07:24] Trustee Patrick: And it's pulling some of the language from L8.

[5:07:29] Voice 11: To add the words that Cameron has.

[5:07:34] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, can you just say now what L3 would read as?

[5:07:37] Trustee Patrick: So Kathy, get ready and listen to Trustee Thorne.

[5:07:41] Trustee Patrick: L3 would read.

[5:07:44] Voice 12: Establish the dates during which the use may occur

[5:07:46] Voice 12: with particular consideration given to the period

[5:07:51] Voice 12: between May 1st to September 30th in a calendar year.

[5:07:59] Trustee Patrick: Kathy

[5:08:00] Voice 6: read that back when you uh sure um in addition to any other considerations

[5:08:06] Voice 6: sorry any other con conditions that the local trust committee may consider appropriate in

[5:08:11] Voice 6: some situations the permit may

[5:08:13] Trustee Patrick: sorry you didn't need to have all that he was just reading what

[5:08:16] Trustee Patrick: was written there yeah

[5:08:17] Voice 12: so it's

[5:08:21] Trustee Patrick: just he's just modifying bullet four or item four and l there

[5:08:28] Trustee Patrick: uh i think

[5:08:30] Voice 6: it's item eight it's

[5:08:32] Voice 12: a bit of both kathy we're basically pulling language from eight

[5:08:36] Voice 12: and so at the end of the day it would read after the colon permit may colon establish the dates

[5:08:43] Voice 12: during which the use may occur with particular consideration given to given to the period from

[5:08:49] Voice 12: from May 1st to September 30th in a calendar year.

[5:08:53] Voice 6: So that is to augment bullet three so that it reads,

[5:09:02] Voice 6: establish a date.

[5:09:03] Voice 6: Okay, so starting with the first part of bullet three,

[5:09:08] Voice 6: we'll now say that establish the dates that the use may occur

[5:09:12] Voice 6: with particular consideration given to the period

[5:09:16] Voice 6: from May to September in a calendar year.

[5:09:18] Voice 12: Correct.

[5:09:19] Voice 12: and so then you'd be getting rid of the first part of of that current wording which says limit

[5:09:24] Voice 12: the number of days if you just you just that would all be deleted as would clause eight

[5:09:37] Voice 12: establish the dates during which the use may occur because you've already yeah want to do that

[5:09:43] Voice 6: okay and then what happened to k1 we

[5:09:50] Voice 12: we got rid of it you

[5:09:52] Voice 6: got rid of it okay

[5:09:55] Voice 6: is

[5:09:55] Trustee Patrick: that part of this no we haven't yeah no we haven't i

[5:09:57] Voice 11: haven't yet i don't think we made the

[5:09:59] Voice 11: motion oh sorry

[5:10:00] Trustee Patrick: all right so i need this motion then for l to be made l3 now that kathy has the

[5:10:07] Trustee Patrick: word i guess or we've got that who's seconded i did all

[5:10:11] Trustee Patrick: right is there any further discussion on

[5:10:13] Trustee Patrick: that motion i'll call the vote all those in favor carry and did you have more yeah

[5:10:29] Voice 12: yeah right right

[5:10:30] Voice 12: Yeah,

[5:10:31] Voice 11: I want to, we have to do, we have to delete K1, because we haven't done that yet. And L4. I kind of think if we're not prepared to do that to every neighbor's concerns.

[5:10:46] Voice 11: I don't see why we should implore someone operating the STVR to do it because people

[5:10:57] Voice 11: are inhabiting the house and whether they're paying money for it or not I just don't I just

[5:11:02] Voice 11: think that's too heavy a requirement and and too onerous so I'd like to see L gone L4 gone

[5:11:10] Trustee Patrick: and the only thing may this is an addition may require so it this is i think would only be if

[5:11:17] Trustee Patrick: you had like two houses that happen to be close to each other that there may be circumstances

[5:11:23] Trustee Patrick: where screening is wanted yeah

[5:11:26] Voice 11: but there may be circumstances if it's if it's a new owner if a

[5:11:30] Voice 11: guy bought a property next to me um i i i don't know i just find it a little owner it's just

[5:11:36] Voice 11: because the guy's applying for a permit that he has to start putting up fencing and screening

[5:11:40] Voice 11: because he's he or somebody else is going to be staying in his house but

[5:11:44] Trustee Patrick: he doesn't have to

[5:11:46] Voice 11: okay you

[5:11:47] Trustee Patrick: may it says in some situations you may oh sure but then

[5:11:52] Voice 11: then we've got miles long of

[5:11:55] Voice 11: regulations to try and cover may i i know i would never uh i mean if someone came up to me i'd never

[5:12:01] Voice 11: anyway have you got something to say robert yeah

[5:12:04] Voice 15: i was just going to say this comes out of a couple

[5:12:06] Voice 15: specific circumstances on other islands where you know there's an stvr it's more on the smaller

[5:12:12] Voice 15: lots but i guess it could happen i think we talked about this at the last meeting too you know with

[5:12:16] Voice 15: the hot tub lots

[5:12:17] Voice 15: and the hot tub right there and the neighbor's complaining and the neighbor goes

[5:12:22] Voice 15: well i'd be okay if they put up some screening and then the ltc can say okay we'll make that a

[5:12:27] Voice 15: condition of the permit i

[5:12:31] Voice 12: personally don't i don't i don't i'm it's not a it's not a baseline

[5:12:35] Voice 12: line requirement, it's, it's, you know, I mean, and I guess, you know, if I was thinking that if

[5:12:40] Voice 12: I was trying to curry the favor of my neighbors in an STVR, that maybe, you know, I realized that

[5:12:48] Voice 12: my neighbors are not the decision makers, but they're, they're obviously their, their, their,

[5:12:51] Voice 12: their views are taken into consideration at the time a decision is made. And I, you know,

[5:12:56] Voice 12: if my neighbor was proactive and said, listen, you know, I'm going to put up a fence, I'm going

[5:13:03] Voice 12: going to do some screening i'm you know i realize that i'm operating what might be defined as a

[5:13:08] Voice 12: commercial enterprise here but i'm going to take some steps so that that the neighbors you know

[5:13:12] Voice 12: are not affected by by whatever perceived additional activity may be here that you know

[5:13:19] Voice 12: to me that's a that's a that's another tool in the toolbox that somebody could use to to give

[5:13:25] Voice 12: greater comfort to their neighbors so i'm not saying we should require it but you know i think

[5:13:30] Voice 12: it's a i would recommend keeping it in there as um as a consideration i know um ever slap

[5:13:38] Voice 12: sent in correspondence um i think last night or earlier this morning and she had some great

[5:13:43] Voice 12: recommendations and and this she had she had recommendations similar to this too and i i think

[5:13:49] Voice 12: i think it makes sense to keep it in here the

[5:13:53] Voice 11: problem is by the time you find out the guy's

[5:13:55] Voice 11: making a noise in your hot tub he's already got his permit for three years so um anyway yeah okay

[5:14:00] Voice 11: Okay, I'm kind

[5:14:01] Trustee Patrick: of ambivalent, I just

[5:14:02] Voice 11: think it's onerous.

[5:14:03] Voice 11: Well,

[5:14:04] Trustee Patrick: it's mailed out to the neighboring properties and then so it could be a neighbor

[5:14:08] Trustee Patrick: raises it as

[5:14:09] Trustee Patrick: an issue and then you add it into the temporary use permit to satisfy that issue

[5:14:13] Trustee Patrick: that's raised by a neighbor.

[5:14:14] Voice 11: Okay, I hear you. Good enough. So can I, should I just make the

[5:14:20] Voice 11: motion to delete KI then? Even that's not really.

[5:14:25] Planner Stockdill: And L8 is still, has not been deleted yet.

[5:14:29] Planner Stockdill: oh

[5:14:29] Voice 11: thank you so much

[5:14:31] Planner Stockdill: with the

[5:14:35] Voice 11: usual yeah with the usual preamble um um that k i and l8 be deleted

[5:14:46] Voice 11: is

[5:14:55] Trustee Patrick: there a second sorry i was tuning out there for a minute there

[5:14:58] Voice 9: i

[5:14:59] Trustee Patrick: was just staring at the screen is there any discussion

[5:15:05] Trustee Patrick: I'll call the vote. All those in favor? Carried. I apologize there. Are we done yet?

[5:15:15] Voice 11: Yes, we are.

[5:15:16] Voice 11: If

[5:15:28] Trustee Patrick: that is the case, there's a series of motions on page 16.

[5:15:36] Voice 8: Once

[5:15:37] Voice 12: these motions are all read, is that the end of this conversation?

[5:15:41] Voice 8: Yes.

[5:15:42] Voice 12: Yes.

[5:15:42] Voice 12: Yes. You know, I'd like to, you know, if, if we're not making any more amendments to

[5:15:48] Voice 12: and sorry, what we're going to, I guess we're going to be talking about bylaw 120 right after

[5:15:55] Voice 12: this, aren't we?

[5:15:57] Planner Stockdill: Only if you would like to make amendments to it. Oh, sorry. You'd be,

[5:16:01] Planner Stockdill: you'd be giving second and third

[5:16:02] Planner Stockdill: reading as is. Yeah. Fair

[5:16:04] Voice 12: enough. I mean, I, you know,

[5:16:06] Voice 12: one thing I just, I thought maybe this, I mean, this has been a, you know, we're, we're, we're

[5:16:11] Voice 12: close to making a decision on this. And it's been a long, it's been a long, it's been a long

[5:16:19] Voice 12: discussion. Some people feel like we still need more time, but it's been a long discussion in my

[5:16:23] Voice 12: mind going back. I think that the, you know, conversation started in perhaps early 2019.

[5:16:35] Voice 12: But I just want to take a couple of minutes and say, you know, in, you know, in the lead up to

[5:16:40] Voice 12: to today. We've received correspondence from residents both in support and in opposition to

[5:16:46] Voice 12: this bylaw. And, you know, obviously everybody's comments are welcomed and encouraged. But I think

[5:16:55] Voice 12: it's really important because this has been a fairly emotional debate for some people and

[5:17:02] Voice 12: fairly heated. And there's been lots of things thrown around, you know, around the facts around

[5:17:08] Voice 12: this. And I, and I feel like I need to speak out to a couple of things here. And, and I believe

[5:17:13] Voice 12: that when, you know, when unfounded assertions are purported to be facts, they end up potentially

[5:17:23] Voice 12: creating a false background, which, which, which confuses public understanding of the reasons and

[5:17:28] Voice 12: rationales for a decision. And, and I'm, and I, and I, and I'm hoping that, that, that the folks

[5:17:36] Voice 12: that are associated with the community link will also appreciate this because I don't think

[5:17:43] Voice 12: unfounded facts serve the stated goal of promoting awareness and clarity on land use issues and so

[5:17:48] Voice 12: one of the things I wanted to speak about was correspondence that we got over the weekend

[5:17:56] Voice 12: from Donna Spaulding in which she said that the proposed SDVR bylaws are being driven

[5:18:02] Voice 12: are being extremely externally driven and quote that they represent ideological theories of

[5:18:08] Voice 12: planning staff at the direction of the islands trust who believe that by eliminating stvrs and

[5:18:14] Voice 12: limiting the size of residences that they will solve the affordable housing lack of long-term

[5:18:20] Voice 12: rental and climate issues and i want to speak to about it first of all you know i i'm not a foot

[5:18:28] Voice 12: soldier for the islands trust um i have a good good working relationship with our planning staff

[5:18:34] Voice 12: and think that they do great work in the service of our community but you know there's been times

[5:18:38] Voice 12: when i've locked horns with with folks um secondly the initiative to review the stvr policy on islands

[5:18:46] Voice 12: trust predates any recent initiatives that she referenced by some members of the local trust to

[5:18:51] Voice 12: take on affordable housing um or or you know associate that with with unique amenities

[5:18:57] Voice 12: entities. You know, I obviously got my own views on that, and we will be speaking about it at Trust

[5:19:03] Voice 12: Council next week. However, I do want to say that, you know, the idea that this was somehow associated

[5:19:09] Voice 12: with solving an affordable housing issue, I know, looking back at my old notes back in December

[5:19:15] Voice 12: 2019, at the time of the public hearing, I responded to claims that trustees are attempting

[5:19:22] Voice 12: to prevent property owners from operating stvrs so that they can address long-term housing rentals

[5:19:27] Voice 12: and i made it clear then and i'm making it clear now that i don't believe that um stvr operations

[5:19:34] Voice 12: are displacing renters and that if they if somehow if we prohibited stvrs these houses would be put

[5:19:40] Voice 12: up for rental and there's a lot of reasons why so i i think we're in line with a lot of people on

[5:19:44] Voice 12: that and finally i think it's an insult to property owners on the island the majority of whom express

[5:19:50] Voice 12: their views in this mail-in poll, that the desire for more robust SDVAR regulations were driven

[5:19:59] Voice 12: from outside external forces and were not a reflection of what they were looking for in

[5:20:04] Voice 12: their own community. So I just wanted to get that, I wanted to set the facts straight on a couple

[5:20:08] Voice 12: things. And one other thing that I thought was important to get the facts straight on was that,

[5:20:13] Voice 12: that, you know, a lot of people have referenced the results of the poll that we conducted

[5:20:23] Voice 12: last year. And Gordy said that only 30% of people support the TUP provision. But what he didn't say

[5:20:33] Voice 12: is that in addition to that, 31% of the respondents wanted greater limitations on STVRs

[5:20:41] Voice 12: would be provided by TUP. So in fact there were some people that said site-specific zoning

[5:20:48] Voice 12: or that they shouldn't be allowed at all or only in cottages. So I mean I think we've tried to

[5:20:54] Voice 12: strike a balance here in this long discussion and make sure that we're trying to you know

[5:21:02] Voice 12: listen to every facet of the community. One thing that I found that was a bit disappointing was that

[5:21:08] Voice 12: that in a lot of these comments about my property rights

[5:21:12] Voice 12: and I should have the right to do what I want,

[5:21:14] Voice 12: I didn't hear anybody talking about consideration

[5:21:18] Voice 12: for the rights of the neighborhood

[5:21:20] Voice 12: and the people around there

[5:21:21] Voice 12: and the rights for quiet enjoyment of properties.

[5:21:24] Voice 12: And unfortunately, this was sort of an extension

[5:21:28] Voice 12: of what we heard from the APC,

[5:21:30] Voice 12: which was that everything is all right.

[5:21:32] Voice 12: We represent the community.

[5:21:34] Voice 12: Why are we even doing this?

[5:21:35] Voice 12: And obviously, once we went through

[5:21:37] Voice 12: and had the neighborhood poll, we realized that what we'd heard from the APC was not correct. So

[5:21:43] Voice 12: my final comment, I think we need to move on. We've had a long conversation about this.

[5:21:51] Voice 12: For the record, I support tourism and I think it's important to the island and it plays an

[5:21:55] Voice 12: important role, but just as government places limits on other property rights that are in the

[5:22:01] Voice 12: the community interest we likewise have a responsibility to do the same thing here and

[5:22:07] Voice 12: I believe that that's what we've done with the discussion we've had thus far. So I just want to

[5:22:14] Voice 12: set the record straight on a few things. Thank you.

[5:22:17] Trustee Patrick: Well thank you Trustee Thorne. I know this is I mean

[5:22:21] Trustee Patrick: right now the situation stands that the only legal operators are those that are grandfathered

[5:22:28] Trustee Patrick: and that this temporary use permit at least provides a path forward for those who are not,

[5:22:34] Trustee Patrick: you know, do not have that grandfathered right. So at least it's a path forward. And I don't think

[5:22:43] Trustee Patrick: this conversation is anywhere close to being done in all of our communities. And I'm looking forward

[5:22:48] Trustee Patrick: to the regional, all the islands coming together because, you know, yes, the issue is different on

[5:22:54] Trustee Patrick: the different islands but as a region um you know we can um cooperate together and hopefully um

[5:23:02] Trustee Patrick: you know find some better ways of managing going forward

[5:23:08] Voice 9: how's that so

[5:23:11] Trustee Patrick: there's some additional motions here if you wish to to do them or you don't

[5:23:17] Trustee Patrick: have to today it's up to you page 16.

[5:23:23] Voice 11: yeah no i'll move that the south pender island local

[5:23:26] Voice 11: of trust committee proposed bylaw 119 cited a south bender island official community plan by

[5:23:32] Voice 11: law 107 2011 amendment 1 2020 as amended be read a second time is

[5:23:40] Trustee Patrick: there um a second second by trustee

[5:23:43] Trustee Patrick: thorne is there any discussion call the vote all those in favor that's carried um

[5:24:00] Voice 12: i move that the

[5:24:02] Voice 12: the South Pender Island Local Trust Committee

[5:24:04] Voice 12: proposed by-law number 120

[5:24:06] Voice 12: and cited as South Pender Island Land Use By-law

[5:24:08] Voice 12: number 114, 2016 amendment number 1, 2020

[5:24:12] Voice 12: be read a second time.

[5:24:16] Trustee Patrick: Is that seconded?

[5:24:18] Trustee Patrick: Seconded by Trustee Wright.

[5:24:21] Trustee Patrick: Any discussion?

[5:24:23] Trustee Patrick: Call the vote.

[5:24:23] Trustee Patrick: All those in favor?

[5:24:25] Trustee Patrick: That's carried.

[5:24:30] Voice 11: I'm going to make the motion

[5:24:34] Voice 11: that the South Pender Island Local Trust Committee

[5:24:37] Voice 11: proposed by law number 119 cited

[5:24:39] Voice 11: as the South Pender Island Official Community Plan

[5:24:41] Voice 11: by law number 107, 2011,

[5:24:43] Voice 11: amendment number 1220 be read a third time.

[5:24:49] Trustee Patrick: As amended, I think you said that it was amended.

[5:24:51] Voice 11: That's correct, as amended, that's correct.

[5:24:53] Trustee Patrick: Is there a second?

[5:24:56] Trustee Patrick: Seconded by Trustee Thorne, any discussion?

[5:25:00] Voice 11: Well, I'd just like to say that

[5:25:06] Voice 11: I hope that the community acknowledges the fact that being a tough issue that we have attempted to reach out we have tried to include as many opposing views as possible.

[5:25:23] Voice 11: This was not an easy discussion and the discussion certainly wasn't made any easier by some of the misinformation and the comments that were being brought about and

[5:25:36] Voice 11: in some cases, some quite active lobbying

[5:25:39] Voice 11: to stop this from going forward.

[5:25:43] Voice 11: So I kind of would really like to thank our chair

[5:25:47] Voice 11: and our planners for all their help and their patience

[5:25:52] Voice 11: and sticking this thing through with us.

[5:25:55] Voice 11: Cause I can tell you this was at times pretty brutal.

[5:25:58] Voice 11: And I also want to commend my co-trustee Cam

[5:26:03] Voice 11: for hanging in there.

[5:26:05] Voice 11: I know we've had some disagreements, but I'm very, very happy to say that on the basic principles of doing what we can to ensure our island maintains its character and its environmental integrity, I got to commend him for it, and I really appreciate all his efforts.

[5:26:26] Voice 11: So thank you all. I really counted on you, and you really came through. So I move that motion, whatever it was.

[5:26:36] Trustee Patrick: I think you

[5:26:36] Trustee Patrick: you had moved it yes correct

[5:26:39] Trustee Patrick: and you it had that was it seconded seconded by trustee

[5:26:43] Trustee Patrick: thorn any further discussion I'll call the vote all those in favor and that is carried okay and

[5:26:53] Voice 12: I moved the south pender island local trust committee proposed bylaw number 120 cited as

[5:27:00] Voice 12: south pender island land use bylaw number 114 2016 amendment number 120 20 be read a third time

[5:27:06] Voice 12: is

[5:27:08] Trustee Patrick: there a second trustee Wright any discussion call the vote all those in favor and that is

[5:27:16] Trustee Patrick: carried two more you're on the

[5:27:23] Voice 11: sales vendor island local trust committee proposed bylaws 119 and 120

[5:27:28] Voice 11: be forwarded to the secretary of the island's trust for executive committee approval is there

[5:27:34] Trustee Patrick: a second by trustee thorne all those any discussion i guess all those in favor uh that's carried um i

[5:27:45] Voice 12: move that the south pender island local trust committee proposed bylaw number 119 be forwarded

[5:27:50] Voice 12: to the minister of municipal affairs for approval is

[5:27:54] Trustee Patrick: there a second any discussion call the vote all

[5:27:59] Trustee Patrick: those in favor and that's carried way to go guys

[5:28:06] Voice 11: thank you thank you all

[5:28:09] Voice 12: right yeah thanks to our

[5:28:10] Voice 12: chair thank you steve i after your comments uh well well you know great service from the staff

[5:28:17] Voice 12: and uh thanks for all your work on this all

[5:28:21] Trustee Patrick: right so how are you guys just

[5:28:23] Voice 10: what we do that's

[5:28:27] Trustee Patrick: all right i'm going to jump ahead to i don't know how you're feeling the day is getting long

[5:28:32] Trustee Patrick: do you want to keep going or table some of this to your next meetings if there

[5:28:39] Voice 11: is other than the closed meeting and I'm not really sure if that's that's

[5:28:44] Voice 11: critical the only thing that we wanted to do is we wanted to try and go through

[5:28:49] Voice 11: the top riders so that we could refer that work program to our APC that's the

[5:29:01] Voice 11: The only thing that I'd like to try and get done, if possible,

[5:29:05] Voice 11: so that we don't have to wait another two months to have it done.

[5:29:08] Voice 11: Unless we

[5:29:09] Voice 15: can do it

[5:29:09] Voice 11: with an RWM, then we can do that later.

[5:29:13] Voice 15: Or are you thinking of a resolution just to refer what's in the agenda package

[5:29:16] Voice 15: to the APC for comment and have them report back in time before the May meeting?

[5:29:21] Voice 15: Is that what you're thinking?

[5:29:22] Voice 15: Sure.

[5:29:23] Trustee Patrick: You don't have to change your price.

[5:29:25] Trustee Patrick: So just refer this report on page 31 to the APC?

[5:29:31] Voice 11: Yep.

[5:29:32] Voice 11: I think that's it and

[5:29:33] Trustee Patrick: it requests them to do what it's always good to give them a specific

[5:29:37] Trustee Patrick: request

[5:29:38] Voice 11: uh well we'll start off with uh for comment and uh and then we can uh

[5:29:45] Voice 11: when we if when we get the comments and we can uh we can tighten it up the comments or

[5:29:52] Trustee Patrick: recommendations yeah

[5:29:54] Voice 11: asking um what we're doing here we just want to refer to them to get their

[5:29:59] Voice 11: the comments.

[5:30:00] Voice 11: and recommendations about

[5:30:00] Voice 15: what the ltc should prioritize for the remainder of the term yeah

[5:30:05] Voice 11: that's exactly what i was going to say

[5:30:06] Voice 15: and to report back by the next meeting is may 7th so

[5:30:11] Voice 15: report back by april 20 something let's see here april 16th

[5:30:20] Voice 11: april 16th excellent

[5:30:22] Voice 11: i

[5:30:23] Voice 12: mean you know can i qualify that a little bit and maybe maybe maybe uh maybe this is not the

[5:30:30] Voice 12: the right thing but I know when I look at the report so page 31 talks about the items that

[5:30:36] Voice 12: are on the projects report there's there's you know I guess six of them there and then

[5:30:45] Voice 12: those items have been on that report for a period of time then in January we were we discussed the

[5:30:54] Voice 12: fact that the trustees would provide sort of updated thinking given the evolution of everything

[5:30:58] Voice 12: that's happened that we would give updated um we would provide suggestions for updated priorities

[5:31:05] Voice 12: and so that's provided on um uh whatever i think it's starting on page 35 so steve's comp steve

[5:31:15] Voice 12: sent stuff and then i sent stuff and i'm just wondering in the interest of having a more focused

[5:31:22] Voice 12: discussion on on uh or helping the apc so that you know we're not giving them sort of some i don't

[5:31:30] Voice 12: want to be vague and they're going well are we referring to this stuff on page 31 and 32 or the

[5:31:36] Voice 12: stuff that's at the end is it is it possible that somehow that we can provide maybe maybe some more

[5:31:43] Voice 12: concise direction i mean perhaps some of steve's priorities are different than mine and and whether

[5:31:49] Voice 12: it would be useful to think about how we looked at them to in this in in in the purpose of of

[5:31:57] Voice 12: giving you know clarity to the apc i guess i'm just wanting to know what people's thoughts were

[5:32:02] Voice 12: on that well

[5:32:04] Voice 11: let's just i mean we don't have to do it today then i mean if if we we can kick that

[5:32:09] Voice 11: around and but

[5:32:10] Voice 15: can we should we can refer it

[5:32:12] Voice 11: through an rwm can we robert you

[5:32:14] Voice 15: can yeah but

[5:32:15] Voice 15: uh you know you want to give the apc time to meet and give report back and

[5:32:18] Voice 11: go to the main

[5:32:19] Voice 15: meeting too right so if you could yeah we'll

[5:32:22] Voice 11: get on it we just have to scratch some clarification

[5:32:26] Voice 11: issues and what we're trying to focus on what we want a response to i

[5:32:30] Voice 12: mean procedurally robert i

[5:32:32] Voice 12: mean you've gotten i think you know i want your thoughts on this but obviously we're both

[5:32:37] Voice 12: independent people steve thought about things that he thought were a priority i've done the

[5:32:42] Voice 12: the same thing now you've got two two two work plans for proposal would it procedurally would

[5:32:52] Voice 12: it not make sense that we then look at those and go okay well Cameron and Steve are seeing the same

[5:32:59] Voice 12: thing here but this is different there somehow that we that we you know distill this down to

[5:33:04] Voice 12: something that that we can then turn around to the APC or or they're going to be confused by the fact

[5:33:09] Voice 12: there may be overlaps and differences yeah well

[5:33:11] Voice 15: I think uh you know the intent today was to um

[5:33:14] Voice 15: you know Kim's report does a great job of pulling it together and as far as the LUB amendment potential

[5:33:19] Voice 15: LUB amendments go it's it's you know a pretty you know there's a list of six things right

[5:33:25] Voice 15: potentially you'll be men's I think they're consistent um between the two local trustees

[5:33:30] Voice 15: but we were looking for a little more um some discussion and deliberation from the local trust

[5:33:35] Voice 15: committee about potential ocp amendments and kind

[5:33:38] Voice 15: of focus that a bit and refine that a bit

[5:33:41] Voice 15: so that that may be something you could ask the apc to to really focus on is potential ocp

[5:33:47] Voice 15: amendments okay

[5:33:50] Voice 12: right

[5:33:53] Voice 11: right

[5:33:55] Voice 10: well

[5:33:56] Voice 11: i i just don't i kind of feel everybody's a little fried i think

[5:33:59] Voice 11: everybody wants we've had enough discussion so let's let's just uh put it off and then we'll

[5:34:05] Voice 11: we'll get back to staff and give you give you some thoughts because it's time to go home

[5:34:11] Voice 11: this

[5:34:11] Voice 15: is friday yeah definitely

[5:34:14] Trustee Patrick: having a fresh mind i'm i'm finding the more

[5:34:18] Trustee Patrick: and i you know and i'm glad you guys were the more that we think about it and get clear about

[5:34:24] Trustee Patrick: what we're wanting and the um what the outcome of that is then um things move quicker when we're

[5:34:33] Trustee Patrick: We're more focused.

[5:34:36] Trustee Patrick: Better to spend

[5:34:37] Trustee Patrick: the time now.

[5:34:38] Planner Stockdill: And I may suggest, although having an additional special meeting, it's been a busy time, but

[5:34:44] Planner Stockdill: we could always schedule a special meeting sometime in early, mid-April and just bring

[5:34:49] Planner Stockdill: back the staff report and then the LTC can have a discussion then and then staff can

[5:34:55] Planner Stockdill: provide then.

[5:34:56] Planner Stockdill: It gives enough staff, enough comments to bring it back to the May, what date is it?

[5:35:03] Planner Stockdill: may 7th 5th 7th

[5:35:05] Planner Stockdill: may 7th ltc so that's another option um that's a

[5:35:10] Voice 15: great idea we could schedule

[5:35:11] Voice 15: a

[5:35:11] Planner Stockdill: special meeting i

[5:35:13] Voice 15: like it's hard just they're hard to schedule sometimes and um yeah the admin

[5:35:17] Voice 15: staff are are pretty pretty pressed in terms of of zoom hosting zoom meetings so yeah

[5:35:23] Voice 12: do that i

[5:35:24] Voice 12: think it's good for a couple of reasons a i think we're all you know it's been a long day i you know

[5:35:28] Voice 12: know I look at the number of of of of folks in our community that are tuning in and that that

[5:35:34] Voice 12: number is dwindling and I think we we want to make sure that people don't accuse us of motoring

[5:35:40] Voice 12: through things where you know everybody's tuned out so if it was possible and respectful of the

[5:35:44] Voice 12: fact that you know you do have admin staff I'm sure pressures but if we could do what Kim suggested

[5:35:50] Voice 12: I think we could come into it with a fresh fresh mind we could have had a chance to think about

[5:35:55] Voice 12: more you know this this thing greater focus and and make it a maybe just just it's just that one

[5:36:01] Voice 12: item on the agenda just to just to move through it yeah and

[5:36:05] Trustee Patrick: i can encourage to uh in thetas we

[5:36:09] Trustee Patrick: had a really good come um we we they were focusing in on the shoreline for example and what we did

[5:36:15] Trustee Patrick: was started they asked for the next step to say let's talk and hear what gabe uh gabe gambier

[5:36:22] Trustee Patrick: your island was doing and let's understand what the regional planning committee is doing with

[5:36:27] Trustee Patrick: their their bylaw that they're the model bylaw that they're working on so they they took this

[5:36:30] Trustee Patrick: info step and asked for a bit more clarity to see that they weren't stepping into a crowded area

[5:36:36] Trustee Patrick: that you know this other work was going to benefit them if it it

[5:36:40] Trustee Patrick: happened so that they weren't

[5:36:41] Trustee Patrick: repeating uh what other committees were doing so having that deep conversation and pulling from

[5:36:47] Trustee Patrick: all over the trust we might you know find those good areas to work that

[5:36:53] Voice 11: would be great

[5:36:54] Voice 11: okay i think we have a plan so i'll move to adjourn all

[5:36:58] Trustee Patrick: right any other i guess we're fine

[5:37:00] Trustee Patrick: so next we'll potentially have a special meeting and next meeting the next regular meeting will be

[5:37:05] Trustee Patrick: may 7th and steve's moved to adjourn is there a oh do we need to talk about the meeting schedule

[5:37:11] Trustee Patrick: now for summer there was uh

[5:37:14] Voice 15: we're just looking at shifting a couple of dates potentially

[5:37:16] Voice 15: actually yeah um i think i responded i was okay with him steve responded yeah sorry

[5:37:21] Voice 12: if i didn't

[5:37:22] Voice 12: uh could you tell me what the dates were um if they're hanging sorry

[5:37:26] Voice 9: i don't

[5:37:27] Voice 9: sorry robert i just

[5:37:34] Voice 15: it's okay kim's looking for him i think read

[5:37:36] Voice 11: your email buddy well

[5:37:38] Trustee Patrick: i i may

[5:37:39] Trustee Patrick: not i don't

[5:37:40] Planner Stockdill: remember if i responded either so i had printed off the dates and of course i have

[5:37:45] I have

[5:37:45] Planner Stockdill: lost it in my stack of...

[5:37:46] Voice 11: We don't have to do it now

[5:37:49] Voice 11: because it's so far in the

[5:37:50] Trustee Patrick: future, who knows?

[5:37:51] Voice 11: Okay,

[5:37:52] Trustee Patrick: so Steve moved to adjourn.

[5:37:54] Trustee Patrick: Is there a second?

[5:37:55] Voice 10: Alleluia, thank you.

[5:37:57] Voice 10: All those in favor?

[5:37:59] Trustee Patrick: All those in favor?

[5:38:02] Trustee Patrick: Four votes, all right.

[5:38:05] Trustee Patrick: We're adjourned.

[5:38:06] Trustee Patrick: Thank you, everybody.

[5:38:06] Trustee Patrick: This was a lot of...

[5:38:08] Voice 11: Thanks, Maple.

[5:38:08] Trustee Patrick: Haven't forgotten you.

[5:38:09] Trustee Patrick: A lot of meetings.

[5:38:10] Voice 15: Thanks.

[5:38:11] Voice 15: Laura.

[5:38:12] Voice 15: Cheers.

[5:38:13] Trustee Patrick: Have a good weekend.

[5:38:13] Voice 15: bye bye now

[5:38:15] Trustee Patrick: bye

[5:38:15] Voice 15: everybody