Islands Trust Council regular meeting, March 29, 2021

[0:00:20] Trustee Middleton: david okay i think we might be just missing deb as the unexpected absence um

[0:00:33] Trustee Middleton: we certainly have a quorum anyway so uh what i'll do perhaps is um see if there's any objections to

[0:00:42] Trustee Middleton: us proceeding and let people join us they will great um okay so um i want to thank you all for

[0:00:51] Trustee Middleton: coming and express appreciation and gratitude for being able to meet on these traditional

[0:00:56] Trustee Middleton: territories of the Coast Salish peoples across the the Salish Sea as we are all

[0:01:01] Trustee Middleton: convening via zoom and thank thank you all for for attending and Julia Crosby

[0:01:09] Trustee Middleton: thank you very much from Fred for our procurement specialist what what I think

[0:01:15] Trustee Middleton: we'll do is I've asked Julia to attend and basically explain the next step in

[0:01:19] Trustee Middleton: our process which you know we can take over a course of about 15 minutes or so

[0:01:24] Trustee Middleton: And Julia has kindly offered to answer any questions we might have about the process.

[0:01:28] Trustee Middleton: I'll give just a quick intro to Julia when we get to that section of the agenda.

[0:01:33] Trustee Middleton: And then I think what we'll do, Julia, as I think you've been made aware, we actually

[0:01:41] Trustee Middleton: have to hammer out how we make our way forwards in terms of what the procurement group looks

[0:01:46] Trustee Middleton: like.

[0:01:47] Trustee Middleton: So I think rather than have you be in the middle of that, I think we'll say thank you

[0:01:52] Trustee Middleton: for joining us at that point we'll move on and then we'll once we've hammered out what we're

[0:01:57] Trustee Middleton: doing we will uh we will come back to you and we can clarify a date for the consensus meeting and

[0:02:02] Trustee Middleton: that type of thing so thank you for that so um i guess before we proceed may i have a motion to

[0:02:10] Trustee Middleton: approve the agenda or add anything that you you see missing there so moved all second second okay

[0:02:19] Voice 13: Okay.

[0:02:19] Trustee Middleton: Thank you. And those in favor? I think that carries. And so I'll consider this. We're now in order with an approved agenda. And next, and with thanks to Laurie, who I think is doing an excellent job on providing administrative support to us, here is the approval of the minutes from the previous meeting, which would be the meeting of March 1st.

[0:02:49] Trustee Middleton: and so they're in the agenda package so any any corrections adjustments i'll

[0:02:57] Voice 13: move the minutes

[0:02:58] Voice 13: chair all

[0:02:59] Trustee Middleton: brand okay i'll

[0:03:02] Voice 10: say i'll second it and

[0:03:04] Trustee Middleton: in favor all right great thank you that carries

[0:03:09] Trustee Middleton: so thank you again lori um so we are next at the section 3.2 resolutions without i would yeah uh

[0:03:27] Trustee Middleton: Resolutions without meeting, which is, well, it's a resolution without meeting log.

[0:03:40] Trustee Middleton: I

[0:03:43] Voice 10: think it's just received for information, unless there's something to point out.

[0:03:46] Trustee Middleton: I see that now, and then I see that that was the actual most recent resolution without meeting with the record of the vote.

[0:03:58] Trustee Middleton: Great.

[0:03:58] Trustee Middleton: Okay, thank you.

[0:03:59] Trustee Middleton: And then the next item is a follow-up action list, which, as you can see, is ably supported by staff.

[0:04:05] Trustee Middleton: Once again, it's complete.

[0:04:06] Trustee Middleton: And so we are now in the process of basically our business item, which is, as you're all aware, we've completed an RFP package to BCBizTemplate.

[0:04:25] Trustee Middleton: It was posted, I think, March 6, was it, Julia, or somewhere around there, early March.

[0:04:31] Trustee Middleton: March and um and it's got a 30-day run time so it's currently open for prospective bidders to

[0:04:37] Trustee Middleton: review and respond to we had a small error in that I thought we had added the uh the budget amount

[0:04:43] Trustee Middleton: the budget ceiling which is as you all know is 75 000 and is publicly available but um through the

[0:04:51] Trustee Middleton: minutes of trust Council but we hadn't so we added in that just an addendum to which basically is an

[0:04:56] Trustee Middleton: addendum to the rfp that just shows what the budget ceiling is and that was i think went out

[0:05:01] Trustee Middleton: thanks again to julia crosby uh last week um and so the business before us today is all right we

[0:05:08] Trustee Middleton: will now have um a bit package out we'll hopefully receive responses um and um and when we do what do

[0:05:17] Trustee Middleton: we do with them and so um we've talked a little bit about what that process looks like so i'm

[0:05:23] Trustee Middleton: I'm just wondering, Julia, if you could run us through what, April 6, 2 p.m., the bid window closes.

[0:05:29] Trustee Middleton: Could you just tell us what happens then in a typical process?

[0:05:34] Voice 3: Right. So it's going to close at 2, and they either can submit by a BC bid or to the procurement email address that's in the RFP.

[0:05:43] Voice 3: And what I'll do is I will check them all just for the mandatory requirements just to ensure that they're all met.

[0:05:48] Voice 3: And their basic things is ensuring that they submitted it on time and using the correct form, essentially, is what you're checking.

[0:05:55] Voice 3: So once I've done that, I'll update the evaluation form with the names of all the proponents that we received.

[0:06:01] Voice 3: And so I'll send each proposal to the evaluation team, a copy of the evaluation form, which is what you'll fill in individually on your own.

[0:06:09] Voice 3: And then I'll also send a copy of the evaluator's handbook, which is a two-page document going over the highlights of do's and don'ts when you're evaluating.

[0:06:18] Voice 3: um so that's what I'll do at two o'clock on the sixth so I should have it to everybody

[0:06:23] Voice 3: I'd say by three four the latest that day I could have the packages out emailed out to the team

[0:06:28] Voice 3: and then once you start to evaluate uh most teams usually they'll give themselves a week

[0:06:36] Voice 3: it can be longer I'll leave that up to to you you all to decide on that um you'll complete

[0:06:43] Voice 3: your individual evaluation forms and then once that's done you email it back to me

[0:06:47] Voice 3: and i input it into a master evaluation matrix which gives like a weighted average of the scores

[0:06:53] Voice 3: and then we have a consensus meeting where we'll discuss we'll we'll see how it how it landed

[0:07:00] Voice 3: we'll discuss any outliers at that point and essentially come to agreement that we're going

[0:07:06] Voice 3: to proceed with the highest scoring proponent and everybody's okay with who we're proceeding with

[0:07:10] Voice 3: um and at these meetings you know they're usually about an hour long i mean they would be longer if

[0:07:16] Voice 3: If we had a lot of responses at this point, we don't know what we're going to get.

[0:07:19] Voice 3: I would bank on three to four. That's the average. Maybe we'll get more, maybe less.

[0:07:24] Voice 3: But I won't know till the day of because we've had no responses yet.

[0:07:28] Voice 3: But at that consensus meeting, like I said, that's the open dialogue between all members of the evaluation team.

[0:07:35] Voice 3: Discuss outliers. If we need to edit any scores, we'll do at that point before we agree on who we're going to be proceeding with.

[0:07:43] Voice 1: okay thank

[0:07:45] Trustee Middleton: you and i think and yeah question there's probably quite a few questions so rather

[0:07:49] Trustee Middleton: than be of any preamble i think i saw a hand there from trustee kale i

[0:07:54] Voice 1: just actually wanted to thank

[0:07:56] Voice 1: uh that is actually remarkably clear that seems a very dry easy straightforward to understand

[0:08:04] Voice 1: process i just want to thank you because i'm going to play the remedial group here i understand it

[0:08:10] Voice 1: and therefore I'm going to look at my learning colleagues and I'm going to

[0:08:14] Voice 1: assume we all understand thank

[0:08:19] Trustee Middleton: you I think for the reverse compliments to the

[0:08:23] Trustee Middleton: other trustees trustee kale that's generous of you so vice chair Langer ice

[0:08:31] Trustee Middleton: please yes yeah

[0:08:32] Voice 10: I just had a question regarding the meeting when we get the

[0:08:36] Voice 10: consensus meeting is that in an open meeting or a closed meeting it's curious

[0:08:40] Voice 10: about that because we're going to be look I'm presuming we're going to be discussing the

[0:08:44] Voice 10: applications yeah

[0:08:45] Voice 3: yeah it would be closed because we do I mean once the valuation is complete

[0:08:51] Voice 3: we offer debriefs but we don't discuss details of every of individual scores of other people so

[0:08:57] Voice 3: yeah that wouldn't be able to be a public meeting for those reasons okay

[0:09:01] Trustee Middleton: thank you thank you yeah

[0:09:03] Trustee Middleton: and we I actually had that question I think a little while

[0:09:07] Voice 11: ago

[0:09:08] Trustee Middleton: as well and we uh this is where

[0:09:11] Trustee Middleton: we we talked about distributing so what julia has prepared is an evaluation matrix which is

[0:09:16] Trustee Middleton: essentially a spreadsheet for one to use to score the proposals and then an evaluation

[0:09:22] Trustee Middleton: manual which is just sort of goes into some more detail about how how that process happens

[0:09:27] Trustee Middleton: and they they've not been distributed to you as as i'm sure you're aware and and that was by request

[0:09:33] Trustee Middleton: because these are processes now or documents internal to the bid process and so what that

[0:09:39] Trustee Middleton: means is other bidders can rely on that their bid is treated with confidentiality and that

[0:09:46] Trustee Middleton: the unique approach that their business may offer is not therefore made public to their competitors

[0:09:53] Trustee Middleton: for example which is why that the the bid the actual bid review process is not um a part of

[0:10:01] Trustee Middleton: our public record which we of course is normally the case with the meetings of committees of trust

[0:10:07] Trustee Middleton: trust counsel. So we have to honor that through the review and analysis of bids. And then as

[0:10:13] Trustee Middleton: Julia pointed out, it's transparent at the end. Any prospective bidder is entitled to see precisely

[0:10:19] Trustee Middleton: how they were scored by the committee. But that doesn't happen until the end of the process and

[0:10:26] Trustee Middleton: the lead proponent is selected and a contract drawn up with them. So yeah, any further questions?

[0:10:37] Trustee Middleton: In this case, our dear Chair, but Trustee Luckham.

[0:10:43] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[0:10:44] Trustee Luckham: I just wonder, in this in-camera evaluation process, and maybe I'm getting ahead of the conversation here,

[0:10:55] Trustee Luckham: but I am making some assumptions that the evaluation team is, one, a subset of this committee and a representation from staff.

[0:11:08] Trustee Luckham: And that those bids and that scoring remains in camera to that subgroup of individuals and ultimately would not be made available to the entire committee.

[0:11:23] Trustee Luckham: Because it strikes me that in our normal procurement process, we don't see the details.

[0:11:29] Trustee Luckham: I've never seen the details of that for any of our procurement processes.

[0:11:32] Trustee Luckham: So I'd like to know what the answer to that is.

[0:11:37] Trustee Middleton: Well, I think Julia and I touched base on this around the same discussion of the documents.

[0:11:44] Trustee Middleton: We have a bit of a unique case because if we have more than two, I think more than two

[0:11:51] Trustee Middleton: or at least if we have four, I guess it's five as a quorum, it might be four as a quorum,

[0:12:01] Trustee Middleton: not sure but anyway we quite quickly get to a quorum of the um of the select committee for

[0:12:07] Trustee Middleton: those who may wish to be involved in the evaluation process and so you know that has to be a public

[0:12:13] Trustee Middleton: process once we reach we reach um uh the quorum number so you use the word um in camera so only

[0:12:22] Trustee Middleton: in the case of of of it being a quorum of the um select committee would it be in camera otherwise

[0:12:29] Trustee Middleton: Otherwise I think what Julia is describing would be a subset of the committee that would

[0:12:34] Trustee Middleton: by definition have to be less than the quorum of members of the committee and that would

[0:12:39] Trustee Middleton: be the evaluation committee that again does not, I don't know if you would call it meeting

[0:12:44] Trustee Middleton: in camera or it just meets and conducts its business outside of the public process because

[0:12:51] Trustee Middleton: again of the confidentiality of the bids, but that's the mechanism of play there.

[0:12:58] Trustee Middleton: and so i i believe we will be entering into a discussion about the membership of the evaluation

[0:13:03] Trustee Middleton: group shortly because i know there is uh there's differing views on what can be and should be

[0:13:10] Trustee Middleton: the case of the evaluation committee and i promised julia we would we would we would

[0:13:16] Trustee Middleton: spare her the intricacies of us uh um going through that so uh but you know it's a pertinent

[0:13:23] Trustee Middleton: question you asked there chair luckham for sure um trustee brent so

[0:13:34] Voice 13: on the same topic i mean we

[0:13:36] Voice 13: have a bit of a dilemma because islands trust council said that they would establish an ad

[0:13:40] Voice 13: hoc steering committee to oversee the search for a selection of an oversight of a consultant to

[0:13:45] Voice 13: carry out the review so um presumably um the steering committee i guess the question i'm

[0:13:52] Voice 13: I'm asking Julia, is, could the evaluation committee

[0:13:57] Voice 13: be composed of the entire steering committee,

[0:14:01] Voice 13: i.e. 10 members?

[0:14:02] Voice 13: I know it's unwieldy, but is it a possibility?

[0:14:07] Voice 3: It's a possibility.

[0:14:10] Voice 3: That's a lot of evaluators.

[0:14:12] Voice 3: That's not the norm for sure.

[0:14:14] Voice 3: I mean, we usually, on average, it's usually three

[0:14:17] Voice 3: to usually no more than five,

[0:14:19] Voice 3: but there's no rule against how many people are evaluators,

[0:14:23] Voice 3: but I would say 10 is a lot of people but like again I mean like I said there's no there's no

[0:14:31] Voice 3: rules against how many people can evaluate um but I based on you know just my professional

[0:14:37] Voice 3: experience I would not recommend 10 but again like I said if that's if that's the way the

[0:14:43] Voice 3: group wants to go that's that's a decision that that you can make uh

[0:14:46] Voice 13: yeah I'm not saying we want

[0:14:47] Voice 13: to necessarily go that way I just want to understand what the bounds are because we do

[0:14:52] Voice 13: have a decision of

[0:14:53] Voice 13: trust council and so

[0:14:55] Voice 13: to some degree we're we're bound to that or some some

[0:14:58] Voice 13: portion of it but i certainly appreciate your and and give much weight to your professional

[0:15:03] Voice 13: opinion believe me yes

[0:15:05] Voice 13: yeah

[0:15:07] Voice 10: uh actually i just i would like to comment that actually

[0:15:12] Voice 10: the committee is nine members not ten okay

[0:15:15] Trustee Middleton: okay so a quorum is five okay yeah um

[0:15:23] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, and so just to reiterate, oh, sorry, Trustee Critchley, I see your hand there.

[0:15:30] Trustee Critchley: Thank you.

[0:15:32] Trustee Critchley: So I just want to be clear on the actual selection process here.

[0:15:39] Trustee Critchley: You, Julia, are envisaging an evaluation team, which in the normal course of things would be a smaller number or a subset of this committee.

[0:15:51] Trustee Critchley: committee. And as Trustee Brent has pointed out, our marching orders from Trust Council

[0:16:01] Trustee Critchley: designate this committee with the oversight of the selection for the contract. And so that's a

[0:16:10] Trustee Critchley: bit of a concern that I have as to whether we are enabled to have a subset. But it partly depends

[0:16:16] Trustee Critchley: depends upon the actual selection process.

[0:16:20] Trustee Critchley: So does evaluation necessarily lead to selection?

[0:16:28] Trustee Critchley: The people who are doing the scoring matrix

[0:16:31] Trustee Critchley: and then having what you've called a consensus meeting,

[0:16:36] Trustee Critchley: would the consensus meeting just be that subset

[0:16:40] Trustee Critchley: if we are talking about choosing a subset?

[0:16:43] Trustee Critchley: That's question number one.

[0:16:45] Voice 3: Yes.

[0:16:47] Trustee Critchley: Yes.

[0:16:47] Trustee Critchley: yeah okay so the choice is made at that point and the rest of this committee then would really have

[0:16:55] Trustee Critchley: no um further input the the die is cast at that point is that right

[0:17:01] Voice 3: that's correct yes yeah okay

[0:17:04] Trustee Critchley: good to know thank you yeah

[0:17:06] Voice 3: you're welcome thank

[0:17:08] Trustee Middleton: you trustee kitchley and uh yes uh vice chair

[0:17:11] Trustee Middleton: language yeah

[0:17:12] Voice 10: that sort of presents a bit of a dilemma because the the motion talked about the

[0:17:17] Voice 10: committee making the selection and now we're giving it to a subcommittee so so in essence

[0:17:23] Voice 10: it's uh it's not the committee that's making this election it's a subgroup that's a bit of

[0:17:29] Voice 10: a challenge yeah

[0:17:32] Trustee Middleton: uh trustee brent i saw your hand well

[0:17:37] Voice 13: it would be a subgroup of the select

[0:17:39] Voice 13: committee so i think um you know given um what julia has indicated that probably is okay yeah

[0:17:50] Voice 3: Yeah,

[0:17:50] Trustee Middleton: if there is a motion of the committee as a whole to engage in a contract, which Julia would then draw up through BC BID, I would imagine that that satisfies the motion to Trust Council.

[0:18:07] Trustee Middleton: If there's actually a final motion from the committee to engage in a contract.

[0:18:13] Trustee Middleton: CEO Hudson-Peller, did I see your hand raised?

[0:18:16] Trustee Middleton: I

[0:18:17] Voice 6: think, Chair Middleton, that you will select the appropriate winning bid, and a recommendation will go forward.

[0:18:28] Voice 6: The committee cannot enter into a contract.

[0:18:32] Voice 6: You just simply don't have the corporate authority.

[0:18:35] Voice 6: So that would be myself or staff would be entering into the signing of a contract with whatever consultant is deemed appropriate.

[0:18:45] Voice 6: So I just wanted to clarify that.

[0:18:49] Trustee Middleton: Okay. Thank you very much. And so in terms of then the final two contract state, what would happen, of course, is, Julia, I guess you would prepare the documentation to the selected, you know, in favor of the selected bidder, and then that would go over to the administration of trust for execution is, I guess, what I'm hearing. Is that fair to say?

[0:19:14] Voice 3: Yes.

[0:19:15] Voice 3: Okay,

[0:19:17] Trustee Middleton: and that's getting into, so yeah, so I think there's absolutely no question that the

[0:19:22] Trustee Middleton: members of this committee want to in any way be engaged with the mechanism of contracting.

[0:19:27] Trustee Middleton: It's what is outstanding, I think, is the desire to be engaged in scoring of proposals, which is

[0:19:35] Trustee Middleton: what we are to next discuss, because that's obviously is a function of the evaluation group,

[0:19:41] Trustee Middleton: And as I think Trustee Critchley pointed out, how is that evaluation group selected?

[0:19:47] Trustee Middleton: And I think, Julia, you've pointed out in most other processes, it's a matter of self-selection.

[0:19:51] Trustee Middleton: People step forward.

[0:19:53] Trustee Middleton: In fact, usually it's the reverse problem.

[0:19:55] Trustee Middleton: You can't find enough people to serve rather than too many.

[0:19:59] Voice 3: People don't usually are too eager to do them.

[0:20:01] Voice 3: So, Chair,

[0:20:05] Trustee Middleton: Tristan, you're welcome, please.

[0:20:08] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[0:20:08] Trustee Luckham: I'm just trying to clarify my own assumptions about this process here, and while we've still

[0:20:14] Trustee Luckham: got Julia on the call, I did have an assumption that Julia would be part of that scoring committee

[0:20:23] Trustee Luckham: looking at it from your perspective in terms of the validity of the bids. I don't know whether

[0:20:31] Trustee Luckham: or not that is an assumption I should be making or not, or are you completely excluded from

[0:20:37] Trustee Luckham: that process I

[0:20:39] Voice 3: know my role I'm gonna be acting as the chair so I won't actually

[0:20:43] Voice 3: score a proposal but I will do like I'll check the mandatories I will do the

[0:20:50] Voice 3: pricing evaluation because that's just a calculation that's not scored like on

[0:20:54] Voice 3: the traditional zero to ten matrices and then I'm there to help throughout the

[0:20:59] Voice 3: process so if you have any questions or you know you're unsure you could always

[0:21:04] Voice 3: check them with me so I'm there to sort of act as as your aid and help you through the process.

[0:21:10] Trustee Luckham: So you'll be facilitating I'll say the what you've referred to as the consensus meeting?

[0:21:17] Trustee Luckham: That's correct yes. Okay understood then thank you.

[0:21:20] Trustee Middleton: Yeah and from a timing perspective I'll just

[0:21:24] Trustee Middleton: briefly insert this is the bids close April 6th about a week following to read the RFPs which

[0:21:32] Trustee Middleton: would put our um roughly speaking our um consensus meeting would be um about probably the we uh i

[0:21:47] Trustee Middleton: guess if we stick to our regular schedule them the week of the the monday the 19th which would then

[0:21:52] Trustee Middleton: presumably we're successful allow uh julia and staff to go off and um basically strike a contract

[0:21:58] Trustee Middleton: with the lead proponent so that's rough timing um and i think judah's as a tentative timing is that

[0:22:06] Trustee Middleton: uh a contract could be struck and executed so that the work would begin may 1st um i saw i think

[0:22:14] Trustee Middleton: trustee critchley did i see your hand yes please go

[0:22:18] Trustee Critchley: ahead thank you yeah so um you mentioned about

[0:22:26] Trustee Critchley: about this matrix completion and the evaluation

[0:22:33] Trustee Critchley: being somewhat onerous.

[0:22:35] Trustee Critchley: And so I'm curious as to what size

[0:22:37] Trustee Critchley: you would normally expect a bid package to be,

[0:22:41] Trustee Critchley: like how many pages would be submitted

[0:22:44] Trustee Critchley: by the three or four that we might anticipate?

[0:22:47] Trustee Critchley: I'm just trying to get a handle on how onerous a job

[0:22:50] Trustee Critchley: this is to do the scoring.

[0:22:53] Voice 3: I mean, I would say for something like this,

[0:22:56] Voice 3: we could look at 30 pages it could be more uh some people have a tendency to pad their responses so

[0:23:05] Voice 3: it does vary but i i would bank on just what we're asking them to provide you could be the 30 to 40

[0:23:10] Voice 3: page um range okay but i do know i mean our evaluation i think you know it's it's not we're

[0:23:21] Voice 3: not going to be evaluating a ton of different points that we've asked them for so as as long

[0:23:25] Voice 3: as they've done a decent job of answering it the way that we've asked them to answer it

[0:23:30] Voice 3: that's not always onerous but you know it does it does take some time for sure you want to

[0:23:34] Voice 3: definitely take the time to to read through it and and have that space to do it so that's usually

[0:23:40] Voice 3: the concern a lot of times is people just don't have the extra time to to to commit to these

[0:23:45] Voice 3: processes so um

[0:23:50] Trustee Middleton: did you have a follow-up trustee critchley or is that otherwise we'll turn the

[0:23:55] Trustee Middleton: floor to trustee brent thank you i'm

[0:24:00] Voice 13: just going to mention to julia that our our last agenda package

[0:24:03] Voice 13: for trust council a couple weeks ago was over 900 pages we regularly get agenda packages in the

[0:24:11] Voice 13: four to six hundred page so and then we get local agenda packages well upwards of over 100 so we're

[0:24:17] Voice 13: quite used to large uh reading large packages so something that's you know a couple hundred

[0:24:22] Voice 13: pages is is nothing so

[0:24:25] Voice 3: okay so 30 pages is a walk in the park then

[0:24:27] Trustee Middleton: absolutely yeah okay

[0:24:30] Trustee Middleton: so any further questions ceo hotzapel yes so

[0:24:35] Voice 6: julia in the past have you actually participated

[0:24:37] Voice 6: in the scoring of um you have so that so that's a

[0:24:42] Voice 6: possibility you could you could undertake that

[0:24:44] Voice 6: role yeah

[0:24:45] Voice 3: i usually i'll do that when we're short evaluators um because we like to try to have at

[0:24:50] Voice 3: least three but if you do need me to i can excellent yeah so i'm available for that as well

[0:24:58] Voice 3: thank

[0:24:59] Trustee Middleton: you very much and any any further questions before we get into the issue of the selection of

[0:25:06] Trustee Middleton: this group um which will as i say spare julia the the the participation in or the observation of

[0:25:15] Trustee Middleton: of whatever you want to call it. Any last questions? Okay. Seeing none, I think, Julia,

[0:25:23] Trustee Middleton: I think we understand the process well. And for us, the crux of the matter now is who

[0:25:27] Trustee Middleton: is basically reviewing these proposals that then facilitates or allows you to facilitate

[0:25:35] Trustee Middleton: reviewing aggregate scores at a consensus meeting. So that's definitely something we

[0:25:41] Trustee Middleton: have to hash out um and as i said we'll definitely be in touch with the um i mean but i think there's

[0:25:48] Trustee Middleton: no issue with the time frame everybody is quite that that seems totally doable and that the

[0:25:53] Trustee Middleton: expectation is contracting begins may 1st um so we just have this one matter between us um so i just

[0:26:00] Trustee Middleton: want to thank you once again for your diligence with us and your attention professional attention

[0:26:04] Trustee Middleton: attention to detail and um and we certainly appreciate it thank you thank you Julia thank

[0:26:11] Voice 3: you

[0:26:11] Voice 12: let's hope

[0:26:12] Trustee Middleton: we let's hope we get

[0:26:14] Trustee Middleton: some offers yeah

[0:26:15] Voice 3: I'm sure we will that

[0:26:17] Trustee Middleton: would be right all

[0:26:18] Voice 3: right thank you all okay thanks again

[0:26:20] Trustee Middleton: Julia bye-bye so um yeah so I mean without without

[0:26:26] Trustee Middleton: further ado I think we know we all know what the issue is and that is of course um uh the the the

[0:26:34] Trustee Middleton: the process by which an rfp is scored and the size of that group and who constitutes

[0:26:41] Trustee Middleton: um that group i think we had originally we had thought that the group would be within the group

[0:26:47] Trustee Middleton: size of five and there'd be a perhaps a mix of trustees and and staff but um uh in floating that

[0:26:55] Trustee Middleton: there's more interest then i think that number will accommodate and then i know russ you've

[0:27:00] Trustee Middleton: who've subsequently been thinking about how this might best work.

[0:27:03] Trustee Middleton: And so I don't know who wants to who wants to kick it off here, I guess,

[0:27:07] Trustee Middleton: with their their view of what what should transpire.

[0:27:14] Trustee Middleton: I mean, I can I that's kind of leading.

[0:27:17] Trustee Middleton: I apologize. So maybe I should.

[0:27:18] Trustee Middleton: But case in case when you go ahead.

[0:27:21] Trustee Middleton: I

[0:27:21] Voice 10: just curious as to who all would be

[0:27:23] Voice 10: interested in participating, I guess, if people want to put their names forward.

[0:27:28] Trustee Middleton: And that'd

[0:27:30] Voice 10: be a starting point.

[0:27:36] Trustee Middleton: Yes, I guess we've, I know we had at least four or five.

[0:27:41] Trustee Luckham: I have a question. I'm

[0:27:42] Trustee Luckham: not raising my hand about wanting to be involved. So I want to be careful

[0:27:47] Trustee Luckham: about that.

[0:27:48] Trustee Middleton: Fair enough. No, I would informally, I would just add, returning to your question that

[0:27:53] Trustee Middleton: as I went sort of canvas the group to see about what might be a way forward, there was, I would

[0:27:59] Trustee Middleton: say a consistent good solid five if not six or seven who were who were were interested um um

[0:28:09] Trustee Middleton: which is why i realized okay we had something we need to discuss here and so uh trustee luck i

[0:28:16] Trustee Middleton: might think ceo hassanpeller you had your question did you say sir all right follow up

[0:28:22] Trustee Luckham: trustee lincoln

[0:28:23] Trustee Middleton: I'm

[0:28:25] Trustee Luckham: just feeling that a bit of a disadvantage because two members of the committee are not present and therefore their voices are not going to be heard and or their participation may be difficult to solicit or appoint.

[0:28:45] Trustee Luckham: point um and so i am conscious of that um about how it is that ultimately we uh decide in a fair

[0:28:56] Trustee Luckham: and transparent way and i honestly would like to see all members of the committee here for

[0:29:02] Trustee Luckham: this particular important decision fair

[0:29:07] Trustee Middleton: enough thank thank you uh thank you chair welcome uh

[0:29:11] Trustee Middleton: Your CEO, Hudson Pella, the floor is yours, sir.

[0:29:14] Trustee Middleton: Can

[0:29:15] Voice 6: you hear me? Good.

[0:29:17] Voice 6: Well, first, I just want to acknowledge that this group's come a long way from getting this idea through Trust Council to refining the piece of work.

[0:29:29] Voice 6: I think almost everyone would agree that there's been progress through getting it on the strategic plan to accelerating our work.

[0:29:40] Voice 6: so there's been there's been some productivity here and here we're at i would say the last big

[0:29:44] Voice 6: decision um because i think frankly once you're into the scoring process it is not it is very

[0:29:52] Voice 6: routine um the winners become quite obvious i've done many many many of these so i urge

[0:30:00] Voice 6: just to find a successful easy way forward to achieve what you all want to achieve and what

[0:30:07] Voice 6: trust council wants to achieve one of the things we have to overcome is our procurement policy

[0:30:13] Voice 6: which precludes elected officials from indicating a preference for a good or a service

[0:30:20] Voice 6: so there's nothing that you know trust council has made a motion for you to oversee

[0:30:24] Voice 6: see this work and you have done an able job of doing that um you've gotten julia involved

[0:30:32] Voice 6: you've worked through uh the development of the rfp um almost ad infinitum but gotten into gone

[0:30:39] Voice 6: into a good position and now it's out there so we're close to being successful um nevertheless

[0:30:46] Voice 6: Nevertheless, this policy is not an unusual policy in local governance.

[0:30:52] Voice 6: It is the rule.

[0:30:54] Voice 6: And that is that there's a separation of powers between the requirement and the development

[0:31:03] Voice 6: of an area of study for a good or service and the selection of set.

[0:31:07] Voice 6: And that's why this policy has been around since 1996 and it's had five updates since.

[0:31:12] Voice 6: Every local jurisdiction that you would go to who would avail themselves of the same

[0:31:16] Voice 6: service would have some version of this policy so I've got a suggestion that I

[0:31:24] Voice 6: think will overcome this scenario which I think would be to the benefit of

[0:31:29] Voice 6: everybody it would satisfy trust counsel I think it would satisfy your greater

[0:31:33] Voice 6: intention and that is to just get this going and get this done and it would

[0:31:39] Voice 6: satisfy I think the the heart or the intention of the procurement policy so I

[0:31:47] Voice 6: think I'd like to have that conversation and put us on a good way forward. I've spoken to Julia

[0:31:56] Voice 6: about this in her experience. Julia is very able, as you're all understanding, 95% of Julia's work

[0:32:04] Voice 6: is dealing with ministry staff across the provincial government. She does not deal with

[0:32:09] Voice 6: local governments. That's the BC BID website. So she's being assistive to us in certain circumstances

[0:32:17] Voice 6: with complex files, her agency would sit in and assist with the selection process, but she wouldn't

[0:32:24] Voice 6: have selection by 10 people or 10 elected officials. It's just not a, it's a very unusual

[0:32:30] Voice 6: circumstance. So I'm recommending that a subgroup be put together that's built on trust

[0:32:38] Voice 6: and a way forward and addresses everyone's needs. And if you wish, I can describe what that looks

[0:32:45] Voice 6: like.

[0:32:48] Voice 12: So I

[0:32:50] Voice 6: think Julia should be, you would ask Julia to be that unbiased adjudicator.

[0:32:58] Voice 6: I think you should have no more than five. I think that myself and my role and Julia Mobs and her

[0:33:06] Voice 6: role would provide whose job it is to do this in all normal circumstances and according to the

[0:33:15] Voice 6: procurement policy. But I have to tell you, I don't want to own this decision. I want you guys

[0:33:20] Voice 6: to be satisfied with who you get and to address the criteria that are at hand. So I would suggest

[0:33:29] Voice 6: two more members of your choosing for a committee of five and that that group go forward and make

[0:33:37] Voice 6: this recommendation. And I think that this would go a long way, this approach. It's a way to honor

[0:33:44] Voice 6: of this policy and establish credibility with this process, I think, significantly, or it will

[0:33:51] Voice 6: assist in that, that we're adhering to our policies. I don't say this lightly, gentlemen.

[0:33:58] Voice 6: I went, I have a regular meeting with 14 chief administrative officers across this region,

[0:34:06] Voice 6: and I asked them if they'd ever, how do they deal with this kind of situation, and none of them have

[0:34:11] Voice 6: have ever had it. They all have a policy that separates the intention and the establishment

[0:34:19] Voice 6: of criteria and the unbiased selection of a proponent. And I would recommend there should

[0:34:28] Voice 6: be no fear in this process. It's going to be a good one. We've done this many, many times. We're

[0:34:32] Voice 6: good at it and we can collectively do a good job. So I offer you that thought and hopefully that's

[0:34:41] Voice 6: way we're going to go and that we'll go forward in a good way thank you thank

[0:34:47] Trustee Middleton: you that's very good um

[0:34:51] Trustee Middleton: we're on the

[0:34:51] Trustee Middleton: precipice of greatness here we're just on the edge

[0:34:55] Trustee Middleton: and vice chair language please go ahead

[0:34:58] Voice 10: yeah i'm just one thing i'm curious about you say that

[0:35:01] Voice 10: elected officials don't get involved in it and yet we're allowing for you're suggesting two

[0:35:08] Voice 10: two elected officials be put on the selection committee.

[0:35:11] Voice 6: Yes.

[0:35:13] Voice 10: So that seems to be somewhat contradictory.

[0:35:16] Voice 10: It

[0:35:16] Voice 6: is a bit contradictory.

[0:35:17] Voice 6: I'm trying to look at a good way forward.

[0:35:21] Voice 6: And what would not be a good way forward is to have me sit on the committee

[0:35:25] Voice 6: and six elected officials,

[0:35:27] Voice 6: such that there would be a preponderance of political direction associated

[0:35:30] Voice 6: with it.

[0:35:31] Voice 6: I mean, I trust that the two people you select,

[0:35:35] Voice 6: if you go this direction, are going to bring everything they can.

[0:35:38] Voice 6: And I know, as your treasured employees, that you believe the same thing of us.

[0:35:43] Voice 6: And you've got this third person who's demonstrating a lot of good character and good advice from the procurement branch of the ministry.

[0:35:53] Voice 6: So I think you should be very confident with that process.

[0:35:57] Voice 10: It

[0:35:58] Voice 6: ain't perfect, but perfect would be this.

[0:36:02] Voice 6: me a bunch of staff and maybe julia conducting it like for the last 45 years all process has

[0:36:12] Voice 6: been conducted at the allen's trust based on this process and i think collectively just common sense

[0:36:19] Voice 6: and practicality says that you know if we can if we can make this accommodation it's the best way

[0:36:24] Voice 6: Okay.

[0:36:29] Trustee Middleton: I think who, Trustee Brendan and Trustee Cahill?

[0:36:35] Voice 13: Well, respectfully, I kind of just agree. I mean, we keep talking about bias. And I think if, you know, we're going to be looking at a review of an organization and having people within the organization being reviewed, be part of the selection committee, I see that as a heck of a lot of bias.

[0:36:56] Voice 13: and so um yeah so i'm very uncomfortable with that i think um trustees are very unbiased because

[0:37:04] Voice 13: we're not within the organization uh we're external to it in fact we're clients and um i

[0:37:11] Voice 13: think we want the best thing for the organization that's number one number two trust council has

[0:37:16] Voice 13: indicated that the steering committee would be part of the selection process so that presumes

[0:37:22] Voice 13: that a decision of trust counsel uh in advance of in uh prior to or or after i should say the uh

[0:37:31] Voice 13: policy of trust counsel regarding procurement would trump it i mean you're already suggesting

[0:37:37] Voice 13: that trustees be involved so i think um that suggests that they can be involved

[0:37:43] Voice 13: three um oh boy it's it's it's not the way it's been done in the past well sure it's unique

[0:37:50] Voice 13: unique. Part of maybe what makes it so good is that it is unique. We know that there is a bias.

[0:37:58] Voice 13: In fact, you have indicated that bias, CAO Hudson-Piller, by saying that a management review

[0:38:03] Voice 13: would bring the organization to a standstill. And you did that after a question from a trustee in a

[0:38:08] Voice 13: public meeting. So I think the very fact of it being unique doesn't preclude us from using it

[0:38:16] Voice 13: whatsoever. Finally, the ministry didn't seem to have any difficulty with the fact of elected

[0:38:23] Voice 13: officials being involved in this entire process. So yeah, I don't agree that staff should be

[0:38:31] Voice 13: involved. And I don't agree that Julia should be involved because she may have done lots of

[0:38:37] Voice 13: scoring. I've done lots of scoring on many different things. But I know a little bit about

[0:38:43] Voice 13: this organization and she knows very little so that's my opinion thank you thank

[0:38:51] Trustee Middleton: you trustee rent

[0:38:52] Trustee Middleton: and trustee kale yeah um

[0:38:55] Voice 1: well actually i i am going to just thank uh ceo hossenbiller just for

[0:39:01] Voice 1: bringing that suggestion to the table and i'm also listening very carefully to what trustee brent is

[0:39:09] Voice 1: saying as well. It was interesting because I put this in front of a couple of litigators

[0:39:15] Voice 1: and very interesting on the page 11 of our terms of reference the word selection is used

[0:39:28] Voice 1: and the term selection means the action or fact of carefully choosing someone or something as

[0:39:35] Voice 1: being best or most suitable. Well, that's exactly what we're doing. Now, I realize as well, we have

[0:39:42] Voice 1: this issue of procurement, which is to obtain something, especially with care and effort.

[0:39:53] Voice 1: It is actually to secure, to pick up, get possession, buy or purchase. Now, I see the

[0:40:03] Voice 1: dilemma we are in and hopefully the faces in front of us now can come to some conclusion here

[0:40:12] Voice 1: uh trust uh which uh cao mentioned well i i thought it was incredibly clear what was expected

[0:40:23] Voice 1: of this group we are the steering committee and and surely it's been laid out very clearly in

[0:40:32] Voice 1: very concise english as to what is to happen and i had rather hoped that the involvement of

[0:40:38] Voice 1: bc bid and having uh julia from bc bid cheer these meetings would satisfy the whole issue of

[0:40:50] Voice 1: of procurement because most of us have looked at that procurement um policy and it's the the intent

[0:41:00] Voice 1: intent, which it refers to in the middle paragraph of that policy, is to specifically distance or to

[0:41:07] Voice 1: make separate the elected officials from not to influence the buying decision. And that was the

[0:41:18] Voice 1: whole purpose I would have thought of working with BC Bid. When I heard Julia speaking, I thought,

[0:41:23] Voice 1: my gosh, she has laid out the way forward. So I have to agree, and I hope we can talk this around

[0:41:31] Voice 1: with Trustee Brent, that we are, as dictated by trust committee, we are the group. We are the

[0:41:42] Voice 1: steering committee here. And we cannot abdicate that responsibility. So maybe, CAO Hossenpiller,

[0:41:50] Voice 1: we can somehow, frankly, leave us still very much more in the driving seat here than your initial suggestion was leading us to believe.

[0:42:02] Voice 1: Because I thought Julia from BC Bid laid out the method very clearly, which would have satisfied the intent of the procurement policy.

[0:42:11] Voice 1: I see no way in which the intent of your procurement policy is being worked against in any way or couldn't be held up to any court, any tribunal in this province.

[0:42:26] Voice 1: So I thought we were totally squeaky clean in every regard and behaving in absolutely the correct way with BC bid.

[0:42:34] Voice 1: So why we cannot proceed as Julia indicated, and she would obviously send the documents for you for all the necessary work for the actual efficient procurement and leave the selection to the steering group, because that's going to be critical.

[0:42:55] Voice 1: because that is what we've been working for since September of last year

[0:43:00] Voice 1: when we first bought this resolution to council,

[0:43:04] Voice 1: when we first started working on this resolution.

[0:43:07] Voice 1: So I can't see we're going to walk away from that right now.

[0:43:12] Trustee Middleton: Okay, thank you, Trustee Cahill.

[0:43:14] Trustee Middleton: And Trustee Critchley, your hand was raised next, I believe.

[0:43:18] Trustee Critchley: Yes, it was. Thank you.

[0:43:19] Trustee Critchley: you um uh ceo i'd be interested to know the actual rule that you're referring to and

[0:43:26] Trustee Critchley: procurement policy because i'd like to have a look at that in particular off the top i'm thinking

[0:43:35] Trustee Critchley: that um that a policy with respect to procurement uh on the topic generally is going to be trumped

[0:43:45] Trustee Critchley: by a specific resolution of trust counsel that directs a certain thing to be done.

[0:43:51] Trustee Critchley: And clearly the selection of the contracting party is to be done with the oversight of

[0:43:58] Trustee Critchley: this committee.

[0:43:59] Trustee Critchley: That's made clear in the resolution that was passed.

[0:44:04] Trustee Critchley: So unless there's very clear words or something else in the law that precludes trustees from

[0:44:11] Trustee Critchley: having any involvement. It seems rather late in the day to be bringing this up because that would

[0:44:18] Trustee Critchley: have been the thing which would have killed the appointment of the committee in the first place

[0:44:24] Trustee Critchley: if we were simply prohibited by some rule or law that trustees could not be involved in procurement.

[0:44:33] Trustee Critchley: procurement so um having said that I think the suggestion you know of having five and and

[0:44:41] Trustee Critchley: comprised of two trustees two staff and the BC bid uh person to be the chair I I don't see that that

[0:44:50] Trustee Critchley: gets us around the problem that you have stated for the reasons that trustee Lang Rice mentioned

[0:44:57] Trustee Critchley: I think you know I think that's exactly spot on is that if there is this overarching rule against

[0:45:03] Trustee Critchley: against trustees being involved in procurement,

[0:45:05] Trustee Critchley: then it equally applies when two of them are involved

[0:45:09] Trustee Critchley: or whether nine of them are involved.

[0:45:11] Trustee Critchley: In fact, I might say that I think the situation is worse

[0:45:15] Trustee Critchley: when two are involved,

[0:45:17] Trustee Critchley: because there is a less diluted possibility

[0:45:22] Trustee Critchley: of personal bias.

[0:45:25] Trustee Critchley: Let's take a hypothetical example

[0:45:27] Trustee Critchley: that I was on that committee of five

[0:45:29] Trustee Critchley: and I had a particular good relationship

[0:45:32] Trustee Critchley: with name somebody, and I wanted to see that that contract went to that person, then I would have,

[0:45:42] Trustee Critchley: you know, one vote out of five to make that happen. And perhaps I only need to persuade a

[0:45:47] Trustee Critchley: couple of colleagues. If we had this entire committee of nine scoring and being the group,

[0:45:56] Trustee Critchley: group, what do they call them, the evaluation team, then any one trustee's particular personal

[0:46:05] Trustee Critchley: relationships completely diluted to the point of being negligible. And that is generally going to

[0:46:12] Trustee Critchley: be the purpose of any rule, which is stating a general principle that trustees should not be

[0:46:20] Trustee Critchley: involved or political people shouldn't be involved in a procurement process. I mean, that's the very

[0:46:26] Trustee Critchley: reason for it is political influence in the selection of vendors. And so I'm seeing that

[0:46:35] Trustee Critchley: the better course here is to simply have this entire committee do the scoring. It's not a

[0:46:42] Trustee Critchley: terribly onerous job by the sound of it. As the bed person said, you know, a couple of hundred

[0:46:50] Trustee Critchley: pages for us is a walk in the park compared to what we're used to dealing with. So we can easily

[0:46:55] Trustee Critchley: uh score all this stuff on a matrix uh spend an hour together um developing consensus

[0:47:03] Trustee Critchley: around who the pick should be and hopefully that would be achieved um so that's my suggestion is

[0:47:11] Trustee Critchley: we just go with with the committee of the whole as it were i

[0:47:18] Trustee Middleton: think thank you uh trustee critchley

[0:47:20] Trustee Middleton: And Trustee Luckin, please.

[0:47:26] Trustee Luckham: Well, I'm surprised by the points of view I've heard outside of the CAOs.

[0:47:40] Trustee Luckham: Because it's not hard to look into the news to see that even at the highest levels of office in Canada,

[0:47:53] Trustee Luckham: When politicians make decisions about procurement, it doesn't turn out well.

[0:48:03] Trustee Luckham: And I think that the advice is from the CAO is to help us avoid such a situation where there is any doubt or any question whatsoever

[0:48:25] Trustee Luckham: whatsoever with respect to the decision of the procurement of a contractor to deliver

[0:48:32] Trustee Luckham: this service.

[0:48:34] Trustee Luckham: And the CAO has indeed said that in the ideal situation, as in 100 percent of the situations

[0:48:46] Trustee Luckham: that exist at the Allardyce Trust and an indication that 100 percent of those kinds of decisions

[0:48:53] Trustee Luckham: that are made at any and all other local governments.

[0:48:56] Trustee Luckham: And indeed, other local governments

[0:48:57] Trustee Luckham: have done assessments of themselves.

[0:49:01] Trustee Luckham: This is not unique anywhere.

[0:49:05] Trustee Luckham: And I think it's very, and the CAO is sensitive

[0:49:10] Trustee Luckham: to the interest of this committee

[0:49:12] Trustee Luckham: and the membership of the committee

[0:49:14] Trustee Luckham: in being involved closely in this decision-making

[0:49:18] Trustee Luckham: of the assessment of the applicants.

[0:49:21] Trustee Luckham: And I thank him for offering to bend the rules a little bit and take on the associated risk of that in suggesting that we could have two members of the committee participate.

[0:49:47] Trustee Luckham: And again, I would like to hear what the other two absent members have to say.

[0:49:57] Trustee Luckham: It's hard to say what their conclusions are about what this discussion is,

[0:50:00] Trustee Luckham: as to whether or not they think it's one way or the other.

[0:50:05] Trustee Luckham: I am in support of retaining Julia as a facilitator.

[0:50:13] Trustee Luckham: Julia Mobs is our chief financial officer

[0:50:17] Trustee Luckham: and the CAO for his professional point of view on process.

[0:50:22] Trustee Luckham: And I have absolutely no doubt that their points of view will be unbiased.

[0:50:28] Trustee Luckham: And I just remind the committee, this is actually very simple.

[0:50:31] Trustee Luckham: And some of you have indicated you've done this kind of thing before.

[0:50:34] Trustee Luckham: You've scored evaluation sheets for deliveries of services and the like.

[0:50:41] Trustee Luckham: and uh it's a scoring process um and the at the end of the day it's really the person that has

[0:50:48] Trustee Luckham: scored the highest um wins there may be some discussion to uh consider some of the variations

[0:50:55] Trustee Luckham: if the score is very close um then that would be maybe a second go round or something um but um

[0:51:03] Trustee Luckham: i am in support and i and i i will only finally say that i think council's expectation

[0:51:08] Trustee Luckham: that struck this committee is that we would be abiding by a policy and

[0:51:16] Trustee Luckham: regulations that that this local government is normally conducts business

[0:51:23] Trustee Luckham: and so I would be that's all I'll say hey

[0:51:32] Trustee Middleton: thank you thank you trustee like him

[0:51:35] Trustee Middleton: and I think before we return to you trustee Brandon might just ask if

[0:51:40] Trustee Middleton: trustee right oh your hand is up your electronic hand so first uh trustee right then you trustee

[0:51:45] Trustee Middleton: bram yeah

[0:51:48] Voice 12: i'm uh as a greenhorn i'm i'm assuming that there's a um a separation and a difference

[0:51:53] Voice 12: between the selection and the actual procurement because not necessarily the group that you're

[0:51:59] Voice 12: going to select um may for whatever reason may not be actually hired to do the work

[0:52:09] Voice 12: but from what i'm from what i'm hearing is that our cao would like to be involved in the selection

[0:52:19] Voice 12: process is that correct or is it just the procurement part of the the process my it's

[0:52:26] Voice 6: the selection sir so selection

[0:52:28] Voice 6: yeah and and indeed our procurement policy would have so

[0:52:33] Voice 6: So I've had nothing from Trust Council that says abrogate 653.

[0:52:38] Voice 6: It's been

[0:52:39] Voice 6: inexistent for 25 years, and it's about the selection of goods

[0:52:45] Voice 6: and services to the island's trust.

[0:52:47] Voice 6: And I haven't – I've got an – I'm bound by the ethics of my profession

[0:52:53] Voice 6: to ensure that that is the case.

[0:52:55] Voice 12: I totally get that.

[0:52:56] Voice 12: And if there hadn't been a process that I listened to and watched in an office renovation, I saw that some of those rules can be easily put aside.

[0:53:09] Voice 12: So my point is that I think that having a staff member as part of the selection committee, I don't have a problem with that.

[0:53:21] Voice 12: my question would be if you have two staff and you have two trustees what would occur if there

[0:53:27] Voice 12: is a difference of opinion and uh there is a tie vote um

[0:53:32] Voice 6: thank you for that um there won't be a

[0:53:35] Voice 6: difference of opinion okay there i just telling you we've all done this this is this is rhubarb

[0:53:43] Voice 6: that we're wasting our time on okay um the the best bid will be obvious i i just guarantee it

[0:53:52] Voice 6: there's just it's just not a politicized moment at this stage you have set you have overseen this

[0:53:58] Voice 6: whole process and you've got it to this point um and that's why i'm suggesting that both julia's

[0:54:04] Voice 6: the other julia um be on do this the selection as well she obviously has the trust of your group

[0:54:13] Voice 6: and um julia he like these things are to be read by people who you're lay people right like um

[0:54:20] Voice 6: they're to be read by you and anyone else and you should be able to based on a good proposal

[0:54:25] Voice 6: uh make a selection so certainly i think julia mobs would have the ability to read through a

[0:54:30] Voice 6: proposal like like this particularly because it's so general like we're not asking for extremely

[0:54:36] Voice 6: extremely detailed criteria here the winner will be obvious um and i'm just why i'm suggesting this

[0:54:44] Voice 6: is just to save us a ton of heartache yeah

[0:54:47] Voice 12: i

[0:54:48] Voice 6: want to avoid heartache so you guys can get on with

[0:54:51] Voice 6: your business the fear that's out there i just don't think it's big enough to go through the

[0:54:57] Voice 6: the the challenges we would have if some other result comes forward okay

[0:55:07] Voice 12: well um i i i don't

[0:55:10] Voice 12: think that it's uh going to be to anybody's advantage to have the entire steering committee

[0:55:14] Voice 12: as part of the selection committee and um by saying that i i have no experience so i don't

[0:55:22] Voice 12: think i'm going to be an extremely valuable member of that and so i would i i i do not want to

[0:55:28] Voice 12: participate in the selection business because, as I said, I just don't have the experience.

[0:55:33] Voice 12: So there's one less member of the committee that would be on board that selection group. Thanks.

[0:55:39] Voice 6: I really am reaching out and appealing to us as a collective group who's trying to do good work

[0:55:46] Voice 6: here. I got three pages of notes here that I can go up and down if you really want to do it. But

[0:55:54] Voice 6: But this was just my first attempt at overcoming a non-insignificant obstacle here.

[0:56:01] Voice 6: And I'm just going, why get hung up when you don't have to?

[0:56:08] Voice 6: Your end is going to be met.

[0:56:14] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[0:56:15] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Brent, you were the next speaker, I believe, and then Trustee Cahill.

[0:56:20] Voice 13: Yeah, I want to address something amongst other things that Trustee Luckham has said.

[0:56:26] Voice 13: He said when politicians get involved in procurement, decisions rarely turn out right.

[0:56:32] Voice 13: Did I get that correct, Trustee Luckum?

[0:56:36] Trustee Luckham: No, I did not say that.

[0:56:38] Voice 13: You didn't say.

[0:56:40] Voice 13: So did you say something like that when politicians get involved in decisions?

[0:56:46] Voice 13: It rarely turns out right?

[0:56:47] Trustee Luckham: I said that across the nation, there are plenty, there are examples of where, when politicians have been involved in procurement, that it can go badly.

[0:56:59] Voice 13: It can go bad. So presumably procurement can go badly regardless of who's involved, since Department of National Defense and the like often has procurement that doesn't involve politicians and it goes badly, just as badly.

[0:57:13] Voice 13: so I don't think that's a really valid point I was going to point out that

[0:57:17] Voice 13: politicians procured trustee Hudson Peller so yeah so there's there

[0:57:25] Trustee Luckham: are

[0:57:27] Voice 13: cases when it went really well wouldn't you say trustee awesome Beller oh I've

[0:57:33] Voice 13: being

[0:57:33] Voice 6: promoted to trustee thank you very much so the

[0:57:38] Trustee Luckham: chairman of the cao is contained in policy

[0:57:42] Trustee Luckham: that's

[0:57:42] Voice 13: not a promotion russ

[0:57:45] so

[0:57:47] Voice 13: the other thing is is there's an ethics question i understand here but we have a

[0:57:51] Voice 13: we have a decision of trust council that the steering committee be involved in the selection

[0:57:56] Voice 13: of the management consultant.

[0:58:01] Voice 13: It

[0:58:01] Voice 6: says you will oversee an ad hoc steering committee

[0:58:04] Voice 6: identifying the terms.

[0:58:05] Voice 6: It says oversee, and you've done a great job of it.

[0:58:08] Voice 6: It doesn't say you're going to select anybody.

[0:58:15] Voice 6: Well, let's look at that.

[0:58:16] Voice 6: This is the motion in front of us here from December 3rd, 2020.

[0:58:21] Voice 6: I'll read it out.

[0:58:22] Voice 6: It was moved by Middleton, seconded by Longerize,

[0:58:24] Voice 6: that Trust Council approve entering into a contract

[0:58:26] Voice 6: with a management consultant to undertake a comprehensive performance review of the islands

[0:58:30] Voice 6: trust governance management operations in accordance with the terms of reference in

[0:58:34] Voice 6: appendix one to their quest for decision using reserve funds from 2021 to a maximum of 75 000

[0:58:40] Voice 6: this work will be overseen by the steering committee of trust council that's correct

[0:58:46] Voice 1: and

[0:58:46] Voice 6: i'm trying to avoid us doing this but why maybe

[0:58:53] Trustee Middleton: we still we're still hearing people's

[0:58:55] Trustee Middleton: viewpoints rather than necessarily you know like have you did you make um did you feel you made the

[0:59:03] Trustee Middleton: point you were trying to make there trustee brent or do you want to say more well

[0:59:07] Voice 13: i still think that

[0:59:08] Voice 13: trust council has established us to oversee the search for the selection of an oversight of a

[0:59:14] Voice 13: consultant and so i i don't believe it's appropriate that staff be involved in the selection

[0:59:23] Voice 13: of a of a management company that is going to review them and the processes that they are

[0:59:32] Voice 13: conducted by i think there's a real uh fear of bias um that i'm very uncomfortable with and i

[0:59:40] Voice 1: think

[0:59:40] Voice 13: you know we are the steering committee we've set this forth there has been a a number of

[0:59:46] Voice 13: challenges to whether this should go forward or not be it being defunded or the like be it

[0:59:53] Voice 13: part of the strategic plan or the like these things are relatively uh new we've been going

[1:00:00] Voice 13: for months and again this is a last minute thing that we're hearing about and i'm super

[1:00:07] Voice 13: uncomfortable with it and and the last point is the ministry did say it would be appropriate for

[1:00:13] Voice 13: us to be involved so um boy there's something here that's that's just not

[1:00:18] Voice 6: mr chair i would

[1:00:21] Voice 6: only offer points of clarification the ministry has nothing to do with what they're not an

[1:00:26] Voice 6: authority Julia's not an authority in any way she's dealt very little with local government

[1:00:35] Voice 6: officials making selections it's just a fact they they provide we are operating under the

[1:00:43] Voice 6: Westminster rules around procurement like every other local agency in the province that's what

[1:00:50] Voice 6: that's what ensures credibility around our purchasing processes and she's facilitating

[1:00:55] Voice 6: that. She's not an authority to you that says yes or no or any of those different matters.

[1:01:01] Voice 6: You and your predecessors over many years have decided that you're going to operate in this way

[1:01:06] Voice 6: and you've passed this. The other concern, and I think we should be frank, is that at this table

[1:01:14] Voice 6: many times trustees on the selection committee said they have gone out and spoken with people

[1:01:20] Voice 6: in the industry that's a no-go in procurement and that has happened numerous times it's been

[1:01:29] Voice 6: mentioned in our live streaming recordings we have to ensure that there's credibility associated with

[1:01:36] Voice 6: this process and that people who have been in the formulation of the RFP over the months and months

[1:01:42] Voice 6: that those people don't have a unique advantage associated with the procurement process itself so

[1:01:50] Voice 6: So this is a means of protecting you and protecting the islands trust as it

[1:01:54] Voice 6: does its work in a transparent and fair manner.

[1:01:59] Voice 13: And if those people were precluded from bidding on the contract,

[1:02:02] Voice 13: would we still be in duck soup? No.

[1:02:08] Trustee Middleton: Well, there were two, just two,

[1:02:10] Trustee Middleton: who are these

[1:02:11] Trustee Middleton: application before we just sorry about that.

[1:02:25] Trustee Middleton: Once again, there, so, so basically just in,

[1:02:30] Trustee Middleton: in terms of uh two points one is in terms of the the involvement of um of uh bc bid um we were

[1:02:39] Trustee Middleton: authorized uh what what we sought i guess was authorization from the manager who then went

[1:02:46] Trustee Middleton: presumably to higher levels to determine you know the the uh uh the ability of um of um bc

[1:02:58] Trustee Middleton: bid to be involved in um in a process um run or that involves trustees and the answer came back

[1:03:05] Trustee Middleton: is yes now to how high that went uh we don't know um but we you know we don't want to necessarily

[1:03:11] Trustee Middleton: argue that point and to another point of hussein pillow bringing up the idea of of um of um uh

[1:03:20] Trustee Middleton: procurement he certainly did bring it up at the start but i just thank you sir

[1:03:26] Trustee Middleton: thank you sir for

[1:03:27] Trustee Middleton: mentioning that that we had a disagreement over over the policy and i think we still do i mean

[1:03:35] Trustee Middleton: here's the paragraphing question it basically says trustees do not have authority to make commitments

[1:03:40] Trustee Middleton: or indications of preferences to our supplier of goods or services to avoid any real or perceived

[1:03:46] Trustee Middleton: perception that trustees are improperly influencing a decision of staff to select contractors in

[1:03:53] Trustee Middleton: accordance with this policy now i think what those of us who feel we're not violating that

[1:03:58] Trustee Middleton: are saying that the actual selection process run by bc bid is the guard against such improper

[1:04:06] Trustee Middleton: influence uh and then

[1:04:08] Trustee Middleton: what the ceo is saying is that no that is not the case it's it does violate

[1:04:14] Trustee Middleton: that policy um and we sort of agreed to let that disagreement be for the past

[1:04:21] Trustee Middleton: number of meetings and now it's you know it's coming back and um you know i don't make any

[1:04:27] Trustee Middleton: editorial comment on that just a couple of clarifications and now i i think we'll go on to

[1:04:32] Trustee Middleton: i think trustee kale and then trustee critchley have their hands up

[1:04:38] Trustee Middleton: trustee luck i'm following i

[1:04:40] Voice 1: wonder if we can in an attempt to move a log jam here i

[1:04:46] Voice 1: I totally understand what Trustee Brent said.

[1:04:49] Voice 1: And on the other hand, oh, my gosh, to sit on, to get in a cute case of sitting on this fence with one leg on one side and the other leg on the other side,

[1:04:58] Voice 1: I understand and respect what CAO Hudson-Piller put forward as well.

[1:05:04] Voice 1: This has been an arduous and a difficult process.

[1:05:08] Voice 1: And as we are the sponsors, we've just gone through an effort to defund us.

[1:05:13] Voice 1: and we've gone through an effort to take us off the strategic plan that I'm sure you understand

[1:05:19] Voice 1: there's a certain rawness about all of this and I'd ask you if you could just to get your head

[1:05:26] Voice 1: around and maybe just be a little sympathetic to the fact that trust is somewhat strained

[1:05:32] Voice 1: and please I am not trying to emphasize this I am trying to de-emphasize it but I want to make

[1:05:39] Voice 1: the point very clearly now on the suggestion from our cao can you ask me answer me one question

[1:05:50] Voice 1: when the bids are submitted of course they are given to the scoring group yes um cao do the other

[1:06:01] Voice 1: members of the steering committee do they are they uh given access are they able to read and see

[1:06:08] Voice 1: those those proposals no

[1:06:10] Voice 6: so the process that we're undertaking with julia is exactly the process we

[1:06:18] Voice 6: undertake at the islands trust it is identical it's the great unsung story of this process

[1:06:25] Voice 6: we conduct ourselves in our policy here the exact same way julia's led you through yours

[1:06:33] Voice 6: and no once you strike your you strike your steering committee um or your your procurement

[1:06:40] Voice 6: group or your selection committee they do that work and they come together for a rationalization

[1:06:46] Voice 6: and what is that that's a consultative process at the end to go hey there's an outlier here we

[1:06:53] Voice 6: should address it and you have that conversation and it inevitably comes to a consensus almost

[1:06:59] Voice 6: most that there is a successful proponent out there

[1:07:03] Voice 1: um

[1:07:04] Voice 6: that's

[1:07:05] Voice 1: the clarification now that i do

[1:07:07] Voice 6: want to speak to trust though and i'm what i'm suggesting here is a trust builder understanding

[1:07:14] Voice 6: the rawness of the process i would say that what's happened is it's been i recommended it

[1:07:19] Voice 6: be on the strategic plan not taken off so that was my reporting and um you know i i suffer no

[1:07:29] Voice 6: accusation that I haven't been supportive or trying to advance this work as I should.

[1:07:37] Voice 6: We've moved forward. This process has matured. And I think this is just this final piece

[1:07:42] Voice 6: to get through. And I think this would build trust with the rest of Trust Council if some

[1:07:46] Voice 6: version of this went forward and it was not . .

[1:07:54] Voice 1: .

[1:08:00] Voice 1: arguing with what you're saying but now i find now i find out that only two of our group

[1:08:08] Voice 1: will actually have access or will have read the the bids as offered so have you said well there

[1:08:19] Voice 1: will be at least three um uh trustees so so that from the let's

[1:08:27] Voice 6: put three in and add another staff

[1:08:28] Voice 6: staff member, sir.

[1:08:30] Voice 1: Well, we're just growing the group.

[1:08:32] Voice 6: We're growing the group and we are

[1:08:33] Voice 6: maintaining the ethic of the process.

[1:08:37] Voice 1: Okay. I was trying to find a way that at least someone like

[1:08:41] Voice 1: myself could say, hey, you know something? We are meant to be running this show. And

[1:08:47] Voice 1: I mean, I agree with you. We are merely filling in the boxes. We are ticking the boxes and we're

[1:08:55] Voice 1: giving it a number the actual reality of this and for everyone who's done this before it frankly

[1:09:02] Voice 1: doesn't give a rat's who's there so long as they're straightforward honest decent people

[1:09:07] Voice 1: right that is really what matters but surely as i said if you could appreciate some of the things

[1:09:15] Voice 1: that this group have been through i would certainly appreciate a little bit more of

[1:09:21] Voice 1: of the preponderance being for optics

[1:09:25] Voice 1: and for the satisfaction of all of us

[1:09:27] Voice 1: who work this through to this stage.

[1:09:29] Voice 1: So we can get on as you've suggested and get this job done

[1:09:32] Voice 1: because I do agree with you that in the end,

[1:09:35] Voice 1: it doesn't really matter that much.

[1:09:37] Voice 1: This is not a matter of substance.

[1:09:39] Voice 1: This is a matter of appearance

[1:09:40] Voice 1: and I'd be the first to admit it.

[1:09:44] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Trustee Kahle.

[1:09:47] Trustee Middleton: And we now have Trustee Kirsten

[1:09:48] Trustee Middleton: followed by Trustee Luck.

[1:09:49] Trustee Middleton: Please.

[1:09:51] Trustee Critchley: Thank you.

[1:09:52] Trustee Critchley: I WAS WONDERING IN VIEW OF THE CONCERNS OF TRUSTEE LUCKHAM ABOUT TWO MEMBERS BEING ABSENT

[1:10:00] Trustee Critchley: FROM THIS IMPORTANT DISCUSSION, WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD RECESS THIS MEETING TO A TIME

[1:10:06] Trustee Critchley: WHEN THE OTHER TWO MEMBERS ARE AVAILABLE TO JOIN.

[1:10:09] Trustee Critchley: I JUST THROW THAT OUT AS A SUGGESTION.

[1:10:13] Trustee Critchley: WE'VE GOT TIME.

[1:10:15] Trustee Critchley: IT WILL PROBABLY TAKE ANOTHER HALF AN HOUR TO AN HOUR TO WRAP THIS UP.

[1:10:21] Trustee Critchley: i'm seeing one thumb up two thumbs up

[1:10:25] Trustee Middleton: yep we do just a speaking editorially about time yeah i

[1:10:30] Trustee Middleton: would agree that's a fair assessment that we do we do have time i mean the bids as long as we have

[1:10:36] Trustee Middleton: made this decision prior to april 6th um we're um we're yeah we've got the time so um um there was

[1:10:48] Trustee Middleton: some trust we could say was that have you finished trustee was that that was your your comment okay

[1:10:53] Trustee Middleton: So, Trustee Luckin, please, and then followed by CAO Hudson-Peller.

[1:11:01] Trustee Luckham: You know, I certainly thank Trustee Critchley for the opportunity to engage with the other members, and that's a worthy consideration.

[1:11:13] Trustee Luckham: It's obviously going to delay the process a bit, but we have until May the 1st, I think, to be ready for that situation.

[1:11:20] Trustee Luckham: I WANT TO THANK TRUSTEE KALE FOR LOOKING AT ADVANCING THIS.

[1:11:29] Trustee Luckham: I THINK THAT ACTUALLY THE COMMITTEE CAN BE VERY HAPPY OF

[1:11:33] Trustee Luckham: THE PROCESS THAT HAS BROUGHT US TO THIS POINT AND THAT INDEED

[1:11:38] Trustee Luckham: YOU HAVE BEEN INVOLVED AND ENGAGED IN THE PROCESS WITH BC

[1:11:44] Trustee Luckham: BID AND PROBABLY MORE APPLY THAN ANY OTHER PROCUREMENT

[1:11:48] Trustee Luckham: process that has happened in our government or local government or any other. And so I do want

[1:11:55] Trustee Luckham: to see us move this on further. I suppose part of my rationale for wanting the other members

[1:12:03] Trustee Luckham: present was because I would like to make a nomination or a recommendation of one of the

[1:12:09] Trustee Luckham: members that's not here. And that seems awkward as one would have to then appoint,

[1:12:14] Trustee Luckham: point suggest an alternative if the first person wasn't available and it all gets very complicated

[1:12:19] Trustee Luckham: but i think that in terms of the the transparency the fairness the trust really important word here

[1:12:26] Trustee Luckham: the trust of advancing this in the fashion of which a cao has recommended and in and in fact

[1:12:33] Trustee Luckham: you know the cao continues to bend a little bit here by saying well you know if you wanted three

[1:12:48] Trustee Luckham: And so I think there's some room for flexibility here,

[1:12:53] Trustee Luckham: but I think that we have to recognize

[1:12:55] Trustee Luckham: that we are straying outside of the procurement process

[1:13:00] Trustee Luckham: that is in place.

[1:13:02] Trustee Luckham: And in fact, Trustee, or Chair Middleton,

[1:13:04] Trustee Luckham: you read out the section of the procurement process

[1:13:08] Trustee Luckham: policy that I have the greatest concern about, because I think that that is pretty black and

[1:13:14] Trustee Luckham: white, that elected members will not be involved at this intimate level of the actual selection

[1:13:24] Trustee Luckham: of the contractor. And I think that council, you know, certainly I am only reflecting on myself

[1:13:35] Trustee Luckham: myself as chair of the Islanders Trust and having the executive committee, having administrative

[1:13:39] Trustee Luckham: oversight of the business of the Islanders Trust, I am concerned that all members of council

[1:13:45] Trustee Luckham: have expectations about how this might be conducted within the existing parameters of policy

[1:13:52] Trustee Luckham: and how the Islanders Trust conducts itself. And I think that that too builds trust. Because when

[1:13:58] Trustee Luckham: When we talk about the stresses and whatever that has happened, even in this process, there is a lot of distress amongst trustees about this process.

[1:14:15] Trustee Luckham: And I would just say that our most recent council meeting was a real success to me because council put this project on the strategic plan.

[1:14:24] Trustee Luckham: Council has funded this project in this year's budget.

[1:14:28] Trustee Luckham: And I really think that that is a demonstration of recognizing the success that you have had in crafting the RFD and getting it to BC BID and facilitating that process.

[1:14:43] Trustee Luckham: And I think that you can continue to build that trust with council on this by accepting a process along the lines what CAO is recommending.

[1:14:56] Trustee Luckham: ending and i too am endorsing and so i ask you to make those constellations to advance this in

[1:15:04] Trustee Luckham: as timely a way as possible um and respecting all of the points of view on trust council with respect

[1:15:11] Trustee Luckham: to this process thank

[1:15:15] Trustee Middleton: thank you um ceo hudson peller please well

[1:15:19] Voice 6: it looks like you're deferring

[1:15:20] Voice 6: at this point and of course that's your right um i thank you for the the latitude that you've allowed

[1:15:26] Voice 6: chair Middleton for me to express this I am trying to express one this was an

[1:15:31] Voice 6: opportunity to be simple and effective and just be done which has been a bit of

[1:15:37] Voice 6: my theme since we've gotten into this process and I don't know whether we're

[1:15:41] Voice 6: grabbing that moment but that but I I just want to reiterate how serious I am

[1:15:47] Voice 6: about my perspective and what I've said and I think you understand that and so I

[1:15:53] Voice 6: thank you for one considering that and two um understanding that i do i think we do have a

[1:15:58] Voice 6: moment to make a quick or you have a moment to have a quick um and i think effective decision

[1:16:03] Voice 6: for the whole organization if you are going to re-fire this conversation um you know um i guess

[1:16:12] Voice 6: you'd have to pick a time it'd have to be specific and we would be going through this whole

[1:16:16] Voice 6: conversation again and i expect that you can't discuss it like you can't advance business outside

[1:16:25] Voice 6: of the next meeting um i expect that we uh um that that to be the case with all decisions of

[1:16:31] Voice 6: the select committee or anything else um just wanted to make sure that we're not uh um bringing

[1:16:38] Voice 6: new material to the table when we're first having this conversation here today thank

[1:16:42] Trustee Middleton: you sir yes

[1:16:43] Trustee Middleton: Thank you. Maybe I'll just... Actually, I'll make way for... I'm not sure who put their hand up first, but do you mind if Trustee Luckum goes before you, Trustee Brent?

[1:16:58] Trustee Luckham: I'll let Trustee Brent

[1:16:59] Trustee Middleton: go. I think

[1:17:00] Trustee Luckham: he had his hand up first.

[1:17:01] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[1:17:01] Trustee Luckham: Okay. Thank you, Trustee Brent. You know, although I brought it up that I was uncomfortable with the other members not being here, primarily because I have some inclination to want one of the members not present to sit on that, being Deb Morrison, who has significant government experience in these sorts of affairs.

[1:17:27] Trustee Luckham: I would wonder whether or not the committee would entertain a motion at this time, and then, therefore, whether or not there's an expression of interest by other members on this committee that if we did select three members of this committee, and we asked the CAO to determine a selection of members from his senior staff, that that would be satisfactory to the committee.

[1:17:55] Trustee Luckham: uh committee um

[1:17:59] Trustee Middleton: can we just hold that thought uh trustee luckman for the second until we hear

[1:18:06] Trustee Middleton: from trustee bent and then i think it's a a good suggestion i i don't want to see it drop so i'll

[1:18:11] Trustee Middleton: make comment to it um but trustee brent would you like to go ahead so you know i

[1:18:18] Voice 13: keep hearing

[1:18:19] Voice 13: different things at times you know i've heard we've got lots of time to make a decision and

[1:18:23] Voice 13: now i'm hearing that gee we should make a really quick decision and a good decision so but i don't

[1:18:28] Voice 13: think it is a good decision and so i'm gonna move that we postpone this meeting to a date that's

[1:18:38] Voice 13: one where we can get the other two members of this committee together with the rest of us i will make

[1:18:45] Voice 13: that would be my motion i will make one comment i'll second the motion thank you and i am going

[1:18:50] Voice 13: to make one comment which i find kind of interesting is is we can't conduct business

[1:18:55] Voice 13: but we can conduct business if we're not a quorum of the select committee so we could have a chat

[1:19:02] Voice 13: about say one or two people together saying hey we've had some difficulties here uh and uh we

[1:19:08] Voice 13: could use your participation in the next meeting so we can't have a little chit chat i believe

[1:19:13] Voice 13: unless there are certain rules under the local government act that i'm i'm no longer aware of

[1:19:19] Voice 13: um that says we can't have any discussion uh even when we're not a quorum mr

[1:19:25] Trustee Middleton: chair uh stable hudson

[1:19:26] Trustee Middleton: pillow please yes yeah

[1:19:27] Voice 6: i i don't think what you could do is one person phone each person in an

[1:19:32] Voice 6: evening and advance business and have a collective discussion around it i think that would be in

[1:19:39] Voice 6: essence the nature of having a meeting so i'm shy of that by all means but by one person deciding to

[1:19:48] Voice 6: starting at six o'clock saying, hey, what do you think about this? And then phoning the next person,

[1:19:52] Voice 6: hey, what do you think about that? You know, that kind of discussion, I think, advances business of

[1:19:58] Voice 6: the Allens Trust. But if you wish, I'll get some real specifics associated with that for you

[1:20:04] Voice 6: for your next meeting.

[1:20:06] Voice 13: I sort of agree with you there, Russ. So I don't think you really need to.

[1:20:09] Voice 13: I was just wondering if one or two of us could get together and say, well, what do you think of

[1:20:12] Voice 13: of as his proposal and stuff like that, so.

[1:20:15] Voice 6: Yeah, I think we're all of the same mind.

[1:20:18] Voice 6: It's the intent and it's the furthering

[1:20:20] Voice 6: of trust council business.

[1:20:22] Voice 6: Certainly if you trustee Brent or anyone else

[1:20:25] Voice 6: had new information to bring to light,

[1:20:27] Voice 6: I would appreciate knowing that in a public meeting

[1:20:30] Voice 6: so that I was just as prepared as anyone else

[1:20:33] Voice 6: to advance that work.

[1:20:34] Voice 6: So I will certainly, if I run into any extra information

[1:20:37] Voice 6: or anything from the procurement process,

[1:20:39] Voice 6: I will ensure to inform the chair

[1:20:41] Voice 6: and make sure that you get all the information at the same time, sir.

[1:20:46] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, and just, well, let me just say that one thing, obviously,

[1:20:52] Trustee Middleton: is the chair that I condemn it to do is find out what the level of interest

[1:20:56] Trustee Middleton: and who those individuals might be to come forward to a group.

[1:20:59] Trustee Middleton: That's, I think, legitimate outside the public forum provided those names

[1:21:03] Trustee Middleton: and, of course, presented in the public forum.

[1:21:05] Trustee Middleton: So there's some background work that can be done.

[1:21:08] Trustee Middleton: this course briefing are absent members and I just want to point out that we are within time

[1:21:14] Trustee Middleton: we're not going to delay the procurement process at all if we basically when I say defer this

[1:21:25] Trustee Middleton: I'm just using the technical term to the next meeting but one of the things that we've tried

[1:21:29] Trustee Middleton: to do is use an approach that has been somewhat at odds with the circumstance given that there

[1:21:36] Trustee Middleton: there has been some opposition, of course, to us doing this work,

[1:21:39] Trustee Middleton: is to take a more consensual approach to those who do have a difference of opinion

[1:21:45] Trustee Middleton: and to seek to arrive at the middle ground.

[1:21:47] Trustee Middleton: And, you know, we've had a little bit of fun, poked at ourselves,

[1:21:50] Trustee Middleton: for how that's not the cleanest process at times.

[1:21:53] Trustee Middleton: It does take longer.

[1:21:54] Trustee Middleton: I think it's been worthy.

[1:21:55] Trustee Middleton: I, therefore, would support the motion if for, not because we're delaying making a decision,

[1:22:03] Trustee Middleton: But obviously, if we take more time to make this decision, and frankly, we have the time that I and I'll speak to some specific points about the model later, but that's been proposed by CEO Hudson Pella, because effectively, we have two competing models in the sense that we don't have to decide between now, but there is, I'm sensing a favor leaning towards what our CEO is telling us.

[1:22:31] Trustee Middleton: and so i think some questions around that would be good to so before we we um uh we we end the

[1:22:37] Trustee Middleton: meeting but that's enough for me from now i see that uh vice chair long race has his hand up

[1:22:42] Voice 10: yeah

[1:22:43] Voice 10: i just didn't speaking to the motion there we used the word postponed but i think we're talking about

[1:22:47] Voice 10: recessing the meeting not postponing the meeting and then the other the question i've got around

[1:22:54] Voice 10: this is who's going to set the meeting you know how will this be carried out because it just says

[1:23:00] Voice 10: is to a date but it doesn't really specify who and the timeline well our

[1:23:06] Voice 10: next meeting

[1:23:07] Trustee Middleton: is ordinarily the 12th and I would say that this is we're not in

[1:23:12] Trustee Middleton: that sense where we were calling for recess the motion is somewhat excessive

[1:23:17] Trustee Middleton: to our needs because we don't actually have a motion on the table at this time

[1:23:20] Trustee Middleton: that we're debating we were actually just discussing how we would proceed

[1:23:25] Trustee Middleton: with selection of membership on the evaluation group mr. chair so I see a

[1:23:32] Trustee Middleton: CEO Austin Peller has some I

[1:23:33] Voice 6: just want to help help out a little bit so let's

[1:23:36] Voice 6: do a little time check you want this to start when May 1st

[1:23:42] Trustee Middleton: the the time frame as

[1:23:44] Trustee Middleton: as expressed by Julia Crosby was that the the consensus meeting would happen

[1:23:51] Trustee Middleton: towards the end of April, given that the bids would close on April 6th, which then permits

[1:23:59] Trustee Middleton: sufficient time, about a week to kind of get it. So yeah, in

[1:24:02] Trustee Middleton: my

[1:24:03] Voice 6: humble opinion, you do not want to

[1:24:05] Voice 6: go much longer than you're going right now. You can probably get away with the 12th, but then

[1:24:13] Voice 6: there's going to be at least a week of doing that. The consensus meeting 19th, 20th, 21st, somewhere

[1:24:18] Voice 6: we're in that range and then there's the award but no one starts the next day um you know almost

[1:24:27] Voice 6: all firms have a couple weeks of of gearing themselves up um so then you're starting to

[1:24:33] Voice 6: play with you know mid-may um and maybe you're okay with that tolerance and you sort of mentally

[1:24:38] Voice 6: built that in i wouldn't recommend you go too far down the line once the thing closes once

[1:24:43] Voice 6: the competition closes on the 6th 12th would be the latest 5th wouldn't be the worst but it's

[1:24:48] Voice 6: easter yeah yeah

[1:24:50] Voice 6: um

[1:24:52] Trustee Middleton: and uh is

[1:24:55] Trustee Critchley: there a motion on the table to adjourn uh

[1:24:58] Trustee Middleton: no no no it's no it's uh

[1:25:02] Trustee Middleton: it's a motion to uh just did you use the word recess in your motion and laurie you had it up

[1:25:08] Trustee Middleton: on the screen for for a moment there i saw yeah might i

[1:25:12] Trustee Luckham: speak to this yes i accept the friendly

[1:25:16] Trustee Luckham: the uh

[1:25:17] Trustee Middleton: okay uh trustee luckman please go ahead um

[1:25:24] Trustee Luckham: it seems certainly recessing the meeting is

[1:25:30] Trustee Luckham: reasonable however what you're actually trying to do here is postpone a decision for appointments of

[1:25:36] Trustee Luckham: the uh uh of the procurement selection team for want of a better word and uh and in fact i would

[1:25:48] Trustee Luckham: think that that is the that's the intent here um to to uh uh delay that decision until the next

[1:25:55] Trustee Luckham: meeting and um and um it's up to you how you want to do that right

[1:26:04] Trustee Middleton: well i think just in fairness the

[1:26:06] Trustee Middleton: alternative is as a is a vote and the vote um would be i think between two two um conceptions

[1:26:16] Trustee Middleton: of how procurement would happen one is what i'm hearing it would be the committee of a whole

[1:26:21] Trustee Middleton: it sounds likely staff would be invited as in the ceo and potentially another staff member

[1:26:26] Trustee Middleton: but that obviously is his uh decision at that point um and that that's the mechanism we use

[1:26:34] Trustee Middleton: to both review the rfps and then and then um recommend a selection we've heard the difficulties

[1:26:42] Trustee Middleton: that the CAO has expressed about that approach.

[1:26:46] Trustee Middleton: So the alternative is a group of between two to three

[1:26:51] Trustee Middleton: trustees, it could be between actually

[1:26:53] Trustee Middleton: without avoiding corn rules,

[1:26:59] Trustee Middleton: it could be between two to four trustees,

[1:27:01] Trustee Middleton: but then per our CAO's recommendation,

[1:27:04] Trustee Middleton: that would then be two to four staff members.

[1:27:06] Trustee Middleton: And so there are some technical questions around that,

[1:27:11] Trustee Middleton: that i would say if there were a high vote now the ceo said well look that wouldn't happen because of

[1:27:18] Trustee Middleton: the way the methodology is it functions and fair enough but if there were a tie vote would judith

[1:27:24] Trustee Middleton: crosby be breaking that tie um this is just an open question um uh trustee luck you have your

[1:27:30] Trustee Middleton: hand up at this point sounds like you've got something to say on the matter yeah

[1:27:34] Trustee Luckham: there is

[1:27:35] Trustee Luckham: there is no vote it's a scoring process and as a

[1:27:41] Trustee Luckham: sub quorum you add up the numbers

[1:27:43] Trustee Luckham: yeah

[1:27:45] Trustee Middleton: you add up the numbers and

[1:27:46] Trustee Luckham: that there's your winner so

[1:27:48] Trustee Middleton: here's what i know from the uh the

[1:27:51] Trustee Middleton: selection uh process we put in the rfp uh conceptions of um of preference where we

[1:28:00] Trustee Middleton: we talked about the imaginativeness and thoroughness

[1:28:04] Trustee Middleton: of the methodology presented by the proponent.

[1:28:10] Trustee Middleton: For good or ill, that is a subjective scoring decision.

[1:28:14] Trustee Middleton: I think we're all being rather naive

[1:28:16] Trustee Middleton: or purposefully positioning ourselves in a certain way

[1:28:19] Trustee Middleton: to pretend it is just the checking of the box.

[1:28:22] Trustee Middleton: We all know

[1:28:22] Trustee Middleton: it isn't, let's be adult here.

[1:28:24] Trustee Middleton: And so this is why the numbers of the individuals

[1:28:27] Trustee Middleton: at the committee are so important because we have I'm not pointing to nefarious deeds I'm saying

[1:28:34] Trustee Middleton: we have a different understanding about the analysis of this organization we have different

[1:28:41] Trustee Middleton: preferences and we perhaps have different goals there's nothing wrong with that but that's what

[1:28:45] Trustee Middleton: we're arguing about that's the nature of this conversation to characterize it as oh we're

[1:28:49] Trustee Middleton: talking about rhubarb is frankly a little bit offensive CEO on some pillar we're not I'm trying

[1:28:55] Trustee Middleton: to do the work here of achieve a consensus and frankly at times be ridiculed for doing so

[1:29:01] Trustee Middleton: hey i stepped up to do the work i you know i'm not complaining about that but that's what we're

[1:29:06] Trustee Middleton: doing that's the work we're doing you know and uh that's why we're having the difficulty here

[1:29:10] Trustee Middleton: because we've got the distinction between taking that recommendation and the exercise of effectively

[1:29:17] Trustee Middleton: raw political power with the number of votes of the committee i mean i'm not pointing fingers

[1:29:23] Trustee Middleton: is that anyone i don't feel victimized or feel that anyone is victimizing but that is what we're

[1:29:28] Trustee Middleton: doing here and so that that's the nature of do we want to take two more weeks today think through

[1:29:34] Trustee Middleton: are there different options are there different approaches can we build trust such that the

[1:29:39] Trustee Middleton: straight recommendation of the of this of the ceo um is accepted yeah we probably could i mean russ

[1:29:48] Trustee Middleton: is russ's um a model that seems seems worthy it's just what's missing

[1:29:53] Trustee Middleton: is the ingredient of trust in the sense that will the scoring mechanism somehow still

[1:30:00] Trustee Middleton: result in an outcome that is not desired by the folks who who basically crafted the rfp that and

[1:30:06] Trustee Middleton: that's just just being very blunt about you know what the what the thoughts are on the table um

[1:30:13] Trustee Middleton: trustee luckham yes so

[1:30:16] Trustee Luckham: respectfully the investment has been made in the criteria

[1:30:21] Trustee Luckham: of the selection process you've already determined what it is that is desirable for a successful

[1:30:29] Trustee Luckham: outcome and now you just simply get the propositions and you score them numerically

[1:30:36] Trustee Luckham: it's not a ticking of the box i would be cautious about saying that you're scoring uh the um the

[1:30:43] Trustee Luckham: based on the criteria that you've specified um how good the individual proposals are and um

[1:30:51] Trustee Luckham: And so I'd want to be careful about that.

[1:30:58] Trustee Luckham: And I think we have a motion on the table to...

[1:31:01] Trustee Luckham: To adjourn?

[1:31:03] Trustee Critchley: Is it to adjourn?

[1:31:04] Trustee Critchley: Just so that I can get clear what we're next going.

[1:31:09] Trustee Middleton: I don't think...

[1:31:10] Trustee Middleton: No, it wasn't to adjourn.

[1:31:12] Trustee Middleton: It was to, I think it was defer the...

[1:31:16] Trustee Middleton: In essence, to defer the decision

[1:31:18] Trustee Middleton: of the evaluation committee to the next meeting.

[1:31:21] Trustee Middleton: no

[1:31:21] Voice 4: the motion is to recess the meeting till the other two

[1:31:25] Voice 4: members are available

[1:31:26] Voice 4: I

[1:31:28] Trustee Middleton: see okay yeah I want to speak to that mr. chair sure I mean I don't think we

[1:31:37] Trustee Middleton: have a quorum right now perfect time to speak one two three four of us we need

[1:31:51] Trustee Middleton: one more I'll ask you to hold on until we have one more of us I mean really until we all come back

[1:31:57] Trustee Middleton: but and to compound things a car carrier is about to pass across my signal so if I freeze it's none

[1:32:19] Trustee Middleton: to do with you guys that's me hopefully

[1:32:35] Voice 10: they'll try to sign in again using the original email

[1:32:37] Voice 10: because eventually that worked for me yeah

[1:32:40] Trustee Middleton: I worked right away for me once it said the once

[1:32:44] Trustee Middleton: once the host had dropped the other meeting.

[1:32:48] Trustee Middleton: Yeah.

[1:32:49] Trustee Middleton: All right, we've got Trustee Cahill back.

[1:32:59] Trustee Middleton: So here's our CEO, which is great.

[1:33:03] Voice 11: It

[1:33:04] Trustee Middleton: was just, it was a moment to refresh.

[1:33:08] Trustee Middleton: Here we all are.

[1:33:10] Trustee Middleton: Maybe a moment

[1:33:11] Trustee Middleton: to reflect.

[1:33:14] Trustee Middleton: So we had, I think we had Trustee Wright

[1:33:17] Trustee Middleton: was, I've just stopped installing him

[1:33:19] Trustee Middleton: till we got everyone back here.

[1:33:20] Trustee Middleton: He wants to say something then.

[1:33:22] Trustee Middleton: was that your hand seal up some pillows yes

[1:33:24] Voice 6: i was just i was gonna um just provide some comments to

[1:33:27] Voice 6: your con your concerns that you just expressed okay you're

[1:33:31] Trustee Middleton: okay with hanging on for a second

[1:33:32] Voice 6: of

[1:33:32] Trustee Luckham: course i've missed

[1:33:33] Trustee Luckham: those concerns no

[1:33:38] Voice 6: before we went out before we um left the meeting i think uh

[1:33:42] Voice 6: chair middleton was describing um the nature of the conversation at hand in it

[1:33:46] Voice 6: yeah those

[1:33:47] Trustee Middleton: concerns

[1:33:48] Trustee Middleton: concerns or not concerns over any one specific model, but concerns about the choice, the selection period.

[1:33:56] Trustee Middleton: So I certainly wasn't pointing them at any one conception of how we proceed.

[1:34:01] Trustee Middleton: I'm just saying that that's generally, I think, what we're trying to hash through.

[1:34:05] Trustee Middleton: But please go ahead.

[1:34:09] Trustee Middleton: CEO Hudson-Peller, you first, then we'll come to trustee.

[1:34:12] Voice 6: Well, I just want to assure the committee, I don't care who gets.

[1:34:16] Voice 6: I have I have absolutely no preconceived interests in any of the potential consultants I'm looking to

[1:34:26] Voice 6: get the best possible consultant to do the best possible job because guess what me or whoever's

[1:34:34] Voice 6: doing this job is going to be living with the implications of this for a long long time

[1:34:39] Voice 6: I don't know where one firm is or another firm is so I just want to re-emphasize we're not equals

[1:34:44] Voice 6: equals negotiating in some way. You are the body that is responsible for doing this kind of thing.

[1:34:52] Voice 6: I'm drawing you, your attention to some very frank and sobering realities associated with it. So I

[1:35:01] Voice 6: just wanted to make that clear that I'm completely unbiased. You might have different views

[1:35:05] Voice 6: yourselves around what kind of consultant you want to get. I don't care who it is.

[1:35:13] Voice 6: is

[1:35:13] Voice 13: my motion still on the table and live i

[1:35:16] Trustee Middleton: guess we're let's

[1:35:18] Voice 13: vote on it well

[1:35:20] Trustee Middleton: if you don't mind

[1:35:21] Trustee Middleton: trustee right has his hand up but he's been very patient i'd like to give him a chance to speak if

[1:35:27] Trustee Middleton: you're okay with that well

[1:35:30] Voice 12: i'm going to speak against motion for the simple reason is if the

[1:35:33] Voice 12: intention is to get all people on the on the um at the meeting at once we're going to have to hold

[1:35:38] Voice 12: it at some time when uh mcconkie is going to be finished teaching in school which is going to be

[1:35:45] Voice 12: in the evening so um and and who knows with uh trustee morrison's schedule of international

[1:35:56] Voice 12: business i don't know when she's going to be available so i think the decision we we can

[1:36:03] Voice 12: make it here my only from my perspective what i'm hearing is and this is where maybe there's

[1:36:09] Voice 12: some confusion is i'm understanding that the selection is done on a scale people meet these

[1:36:18] Voice 12: requirements and they get x number of points so what is there to choose if that decision is

[1:36:24] Voice 12: already made by the scaling then i'm not sure what we're worried about what we're complaining about

[1:36:29] Voice 12: about the makeup of the committee if nobody if nobody is making a decision what are we worried

[1:36:37] Voice 12: about the decision is already made by the grading and if there's two trustees and two staff and we

[1:36:44] Voice 12: have Julia as an overseer I think that would be a sufficient and if it solves a bunch of concerns

[1:36:52] Voice 12: about procedure and and and policy that our CAO is raising which I I'm gonna

[1:37:00] Voice 12: have to assume that they are relatively serious and and mean something then I

[1:37:06] Voice 12: think I think he's right I think we should try and avoid it as much as

[1:37:09] Voice 12: possible but until I'm convinced that that there is a clear decision to be

[1:37:16] Voice 12: negotiated and during that selection process but I haven't heard yet and I'm

[1:37:20] Voice 12: I'm not particularly concerned about all this and my sense is all we're doing is aggravating

[1:37:28] Voice 12: questions about trust that I really don't necessarily want to go get into.

[1:37:32] Voice 11: Thanks.

[1:37:35] Trustee Middleton: Okay.

[1:37:35] Trustee Middleton: Thank you very much.

[1:37:36] Trustee Middleton: And Trustee Gale, the floor is yours.

[1:37:43] Voice 1: I'm actually extremely reluctant to recess this meeting.

[1:37:47] Voice 1: I'd like to get, excuse my expression, the damn thing done.

[1:37:52] Voice 1: comes to a point, I can't believe I'm actually saying this, but it comes to a point

[1:37:58] Voice 1: where I guess we do have to trust or not trust. And to me, pivotal to that is

[1:38:07] Voice 1: the actual exercise itself that is taking place. And if we could separate the exercise

[1:38:14] Voice 1: exercise from the individuals, what I think we would find is four or six people

[1:38:25] Voice 1: with numerous papers in front of them, completing a matrix or whatever the format is,

[1:38:35] Voice 1: in a way which, you know, I've done before, and many people in this room have done before.

[1:38:44] Voice 1: I've got to tell you, and I really struggle with this, I don't want to defer it. I want to get on

[1:38:52] Voice 1: with it. I'm actually at some point going to have to put my trust in certain individuals.

[1:39:01] Voice 1: And the worst I can be is let down, disappointed, and then hung up to dry in front of my colleagues

[1:39:10] Voice 1: because I made a bad decision in trusting people I shouldn't do.

[1:39:14] Voice 1: I care not to take that route because I just think if I'm truly to be a trustee,

[1:39:21] Voice 1: just as I am a counselor and a couple of other things that I do in my life,

[1:39:28] Voice 1: at some point I have to trust them and I then hold them morally accountable

[1:39:33] Voice 1: for taking the same high road as I'm trying to take right now.

[1:39:38] Voice 1: So it is actually it's not with reluctance, but with the highest of hopes that I don't want to see us squander today and defer this decision.

[1:39:54] Voice 1: Inevitably, at some point, every general has to decide whether which direction to go.

[1:40:00] Voice 1: And if it came to it, I would see this done.

[1:40:03] Voice 1: done, I would ask CAO Hotzenpiller that if it was a three and three, who would be the

[1:40:10] Voice 1: third on representing his team? If he could put a name forward, I would like clarification

[1:40:19] Voice 1: there. But no, let's move on. I just cannot bear. We've squandered enough time now. I

[1:40:26] Voice 1: don't want to see this time wasted. I want to see this issue behind us when we leave

[1:40:30] Voice 1: one way or the other it's just time to take a decision thank you thank

[1:40:36] Trustee Middleton: you and not to put the

[1:40:38] Trustee Middleton: ceo on the spot about that choice because of course the executive team is not is a is a number

[1:40:43] Trustee Middleton: that uh isn't um an odd number so that involves choosing one one you know that's that's not the

[1:40:50] Trustee Middleton: whole executive team if there's just one more position available so i don't know that we want

[1:40:54] Trustee Middleton: to put the ceo in that position right now but uh i think there is interest i'm hearing in the three

[1:40:59] Trustee Middleton: three and perhaps even four-person trustee, therefore balanced with the four-person staff

[1:41:08] Trustee Middleton: contingent, that would be the maximum group size.

[1:41:12] Trustee Middleton: So the three-group size I've heard some support for from staff and trustees.

[1:41:20] Trustee Middleton: To Trustee Kahle's point, could we have enough consensus to make a decision on that model,

[1:41:27] Trustee Middleton: the three the three and three model or you know you may wish to argue us that you want that the

[1:41:33] Trustee Middleton: four and four model we'd be totally open to that but um i know it's sort of off the topic of the

[1:41:39] Trustee Middleton: of the of the motion but the motion was to recess and i've heard to not recess so i see

[1:41:43] Trustee Middleton: i see it uh perhaps in order right now uh chair luck and mark please go ahead so

[1:41:50] Trustee Luckham: i guess if uh

[1:41:50] Trustee Luckham: chair you have a sense that the committee wants to advance this then you

[1:41:57] Trustee Luckham: will need to call the vote on this motion on the floor and if it gets

[1:42:01] Trustee Luckham: defeated then proceed with what it is that you want to do so I

[1:42:06] Voice 11: know I've been

[1:42:07] Trustee Luckham: convinced by trustee kale to proceed okay

[1:42:11] Trustee Middleton: so maybe to the the pleasure of the

[1:42:18] Trustee Middleton: the mover. Sorry, sir. You see, look, no, no, I'll

[1:42:21] Voice 6: let you do

[1:42:22] Voice 6: your

[1:42:22] Trustee Middleton: business. I do have

[1:42:25] Trustee Luckham: owned by the committee, sir. Yeah.

[1:42:31] Trustee Middleton: Anybody else wish to speak? I mean, my, my preference is that

[1:42:37] Trustee Middleton: with we kindly defeat the motion and then carry on talking

[1:42:40] Trustee Middleton: because I think it's useful and we're making progress as

[1:42:43] Trustee Middleton: painful sometimes as that is, but

[1:42:45] Trustee Middleton: but I'll let defeat it. I won't even

[1:42:48] Voice 13: vote for it.

[1:42:50] Trustee Middleton: Okay. All right. So let's do the mechanics of

[1:42:53] Trustee Middleton: that. Can we call a vote on the motion to recess in favor? Opposed? So you show your hands. Yeah.

[1:43:06] Trustee Middleton: Okay. So that's, we defeat that. So we're still, we're still in session. Thank you for your,

[1:43:10] Trustee Middleton: your flexibility, trustee Brent. CEO Hudson-Peller, you had your hand raised.

[1:43:15] Voice 6: Well, I think there's some question around the actual process. And this is how I think the process will go. Whoever's on the committee will get their package of four. Let's say there's four bidders. And you will have another package that will be scoring sheets, four scoring sheets for each of the proponents.

[1:43:38] Voice 6: you'll go to the first question which is some of the criteria that you've determined and it'll be

[1:43:43] Voice 6: a score out of 15 the first one you will read the first proponent and you can do it two ways you can

[1:43:49] Voice 6: read the whole proponent a read the whole thing and then score it or you might want to read it

[1:43:54] Voice 6: one by one by one on item a then item b and then item c you put your numbers in they total

[1:44:02] Voice 6: that is provided to Julia. Then she takes those numbers and aggregates them and then addresses

[1:44:12] Voice 6: any outliers. Let's say someone scored a hundred and someone scored two, it's worth discussing that

[1:44:18] Voice 6: difference. And then you come to your numeric, the numerical conclusion. And that's how this process

[1:44:25] Voice 6: generally in general terms plays out. So I just want to, it's not like I vote for team one or I

[1:44:32] Voice 6: I vote for team two.

[1:44:33] Voice 6: It's just, you've got eights, nines, tens

[1:44:37] Voice 6: across the board scoring on the strength

[1:44:39] Voice 6: of the different proposals.

[1:44:40] Voice 6: Thank you.

[1:44:42] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[1:44:43] Trustee Middleton: And out of respect to everyone and their view,

[1:44:46] Trustee Middleton: I appreciate everyone's taking this very, very seriously

[1:44:49] Trustee Middleton: and you're all to be commended for that.

[1:44:51] Trustee Middleton: We all have different stakeholder groups in a sense.

[1:44:55] Trustee Middleton: Russ, obviously somewhat quite different from ours.

[1:44:58] Trustee Middleton: And I think just having a very serious conversation

[1:45:02] Trustee Middleton: about this reflects good credit on all of us so thank you thank you for this um and so the

[1:45:09] Trustee Middleton: the question now comes are we nearing a consensus model i'm what i'm hearing is it's three um i

[1:45:17] Trustee Middleton: don't know russ if you feel like you want to speak to who a third person might be or speak for or

[1:45:22] Trustee Middleton: against a third person staff model well i'm shocked

[1:45:25] Voice 6: that you're not taking up the elegance

[1:45:27] Voice 6: my first suggestion so i hadn't thought that far forward um but um yeah it would

[1:45:33] Voice 6: be presumably

[1:45:37] Voice 6: someone you know well i would probably um yeah i'd give it some thought but

[1:45:46] Trustee Middleton: i wouldn't want to

[1:45:46] Trustee Middleton: say that right now in this forum i think that's legitimate

[1:45:49] Trustee Middleton: yeah no no no more pressure from us

[1:45:51] Trustee Middleton: to do so i think that's fair um just as likewise we probably uh you know i think if we agree to

[1:45:57] Trustee Middleton: this model i think then we could perhaps agree to the three members that are going to be put forward

[1:46:03] Trustee Middleton: today from the is

[1:46:04] Voice 12: there some reason why it has to be three and three and then i'll be

[1:46:07] Trustee Middleton: three and two

[1:46:08] Trustee Middleton: i saw a few hands waving the number around and i just think the slightly larger group

[1:46:13] Trustee Middleton: gets to benefit from uh perhaps some group processes that uh the smaller group of just four

[1:46:19] Trustee Middleton: might might not but um you know it's not a foregone conclusion it has to be three you might

[1:46:25] Trustee Middleton: might want to stick with that, as the CEO pointed out,

[1:46:28] Trustee Middleton: the elegance of his original solution to this.

[1:46:31] Voice 12: What I meant, Mr. Chair,

[1:46:32] Voice 12: was can there not be three trustees and two staff?

[1:46:36] Voice 12: I

[1:46:36] Trustee Middleton: think, in fairness, that violates the principle

[1:46:41] Trustee Middleton: that Russ was putting forward with the original model.

[1:46:44] Trustee Middleton: I think the idea is it be an equal number

[1:46:46] Trustee Middleton: to avoid the sense of procurement bias.

[1:46:52] Trustee Middleton: Trustee, our Vice Chair Longrace, please.

[1:46:54] Trustee Middleton: Yeah,

[1:46:54] Voice 10: I think the intent, though, was that Julia Crosby would be the other party to this process, right?

[1:47:03] Voice 10: Doing an evaluation.

[1:47:05] Trustee Middleton: Thank you for that.

[1:47:06] Voice 10: So that

[1:47:06] Voice 10: creates the tiebreaker, potentially.

[1:47:09] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, thank you for that.

[1:47:10] Trustee Middleton: That's right.

[1:47:10] Trustee Middleton: She would be the chair, basically, of the evaluation group.

[1:47:14] Voice 10: Would she also be doing the evaluation?

[1:47:17] Trustee Middleton: Well, she can, as she said.

[1:47:20] Voice 10: We could request

[1:47:20] Trustee Middleton: that of her.

[1:47:21] Trustee Middleton: Okay.

[1:47:22] Trustee Middleton: Yeah.

[1:47:23] Trustee Middleton: Okay.

[1:47:24] Trustee Middleton: What she might want to do is try to see us achieve a consensus without her playing that role.

[1:47:32] Trustee Middleton: And then if it was required, then as the chair, she could perhaps play that role.

[1:47:38] Trustee Middleton: But from what I understood from what you're saying is that, and you've said the same thing, Huss and Peller, is if there's some outliers, you say, well, that's odd.

[1:47:47] Trustee Middleton: Let's have a talk about that.

[1:47:49] Trustee Middleton: and often you know just shining the light of day either corrects a

[1:47:53] Trustee Middleton: misunderstanding or a mistake and it sort of goes away so I think if we're

[1:47:58] Trustee Middleton: trusting the process here which I'm hearing that this general you know

[1:48:02] Trustee Middleton: people have come around to that then let's trust the process and I say that's

[1:48:06] Trustee Middleton: that's the that Julia Crosby is the currently the conceit does the non

[1:48:12] Trustee Middleton: voting chair the evaluation group and that we work to get to consensus

[1:48:17] Trustee Middleton: together. Chair Luckham, yes.

[1:48:21] Trustee Luckham: Unless I'm mistaken, and I would like some clarity from perhaps the CAO

[1:48:27] Trustee Luckham: on this, that I think we should avoid the notion of a tiebreaker, and we should avoid the notion

[1:48:37] Trustee Luckham: of voting. Because I think what we're talking about is six people having a one, whatever that

[1:48:44] Trustee Luckham: That number is a one-sixth share, a weight of the number process, and that the outcome is a result, a numerical outcome, not a voted outcome.

[1:48:56] Trustee Luckham: And unless I'm wrong about that, I think we should avoid any unclarity about the language that we use with respect to that.

[1:49:06] Trustee Luckham: So ideally, and if that's the correct assumption here,

[1:49:12] Trustee Luckham: that that would be the CAO, Julia Mobs, and Julia from BC BID,

[1:49:19] Trustee Luckham: then there would be a matching three trustees that affords a balance of numbers

[1:49:26] Trustee Luckham: that I think the CAO is really stretching the boundaries of the envelope here

[1:49:32] Trustee Luckham: to accommodate the need of this committee

[1:49:35] Trustee Luckham: to be involved in that decision-making.

[1:49:38] Trustee Luckham: So I want to respect that

[1:49:40] Trustee Luckham: and would suggest a motion

[1:49:41] Trustee Luckham: that adopts a three-in-three process

[1:49:45] Trustee Luckham: and that we'd seek those people

[1:49:48] Trustee Luckham: that would like to be on that committee.

[1:49:51] Trustee Middleton: Well, thank you, Trustee Lehoveit.

[1:49:55] Trustee Middleton: You're quite right that it's an error in terminology.

[1:49:57] Trustee Middleton: It's a question of scoring and selection versus voting.

[1:50:01] Trustee Middleton: But I think in fairness to the methodology, Russ should have a staff member as the third, not our procurement officer.

[1:50:09] Trustee Middleton: The procurement officer should be the facilitator.

[1:50:13] Trustee Middleton: Thank

[1:50:14] Voice 11: you. Just wanted to be clear on that.

[1:50:16] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, I think Russ would choose one of his senior administrative executive team in normal due course.

[1:50:24] Trustee Middleton: So, you know, again, Trustee Critchley, yes.

[1:50:29] Trustee Critchley: so i'd like to move that the evaluation team consists of six people from consisting of

[1:50:38] Trustee Critchley: three staff members of which the cao will be one and two others will be appointed by the cao

[1:50:48] Trustee Critchley: plus three trustees and i'll just

[1:50:52] Trustee Critchley: leave it at that and then we can we can talk about the

[1:50:55] Trustee Critchley: who the the trustees will be as a second three

[1:50:59] Voice 12: trustees from the steering committee is that

[1:51:01] Voice 12: correct david yeah yeah

[1:51:03] Voice 12: yes a seconder please thank you i'll second that friendly amendment

[1:51:08] Trustee Luckham: and perhaps i should just say and uh julia whatever her last name is from bc bid as a

[1:51:14] Trustee Luckham: facilitator

[1:51:14] Trustee Middleton: just to be you accept that friendly amendment yes okay i

[1:51:18] Trustee Critchley: accept it yep

[1:51:19] Trustee Middleton: um so who

[1:51:21] Trustee Middleton: sorry who was the seconder for lori's benefit i'll second it okay trustee right um discussion

[1:51:29] Voice 1: um please chair yes

[1:51:32] Trustee Middleton: trustee kale uh

[1:51:33] Voice 1: my understanding was that one of the uh members of

[1:51:37] Voice 1: uh cao hosen spiller's staff was in fact going to be julia mobs should that be included in the

[1:51:43] Voice 1: motion for additional certainty because i that was my understanding and if i'm not right then

[1:51:50] Voice 1: i'm not trying to make a point here i just that was my understanding

[1:51:54] Voice 1: no in in

[1:51:55] Trustee Middleton: fairness that those were the words of our ceo but he has his hands up so he may

[1:51:59] Trustee Middleton: wish to make uh i

[1:52:01] Voice 6: don't think you need to you know trust me on this one uh trustee kale um julia mobs

[1:52:06] Voice 6: and i've discussed this and uh um i think she'd be an excellent addition so uh there's a full

[1:52:10] Voice 6: intention that she would be um one of the adjudicators of

[1:52:15] Voice 1: the process uh say

[1:52:18] Trustee Middleton: sufi done

[1:52:20] Trustee Middleton: um sorry i omitted trustee critchley if you wanted to make any uh comments and support

[1:52:26] Trustee Middleton: you your motion no

[1:52:28] Trustee Critchley: it sounds like a reasonable compromise to me let's let's move it along okay

[1:52:33] Trustee Middleton: um anybody else want to make comment should we go to a vote can we just

[1:52:39] Trustee Middleton: have a look

[1:52:40] Voice 1: can we just have

[1:52:41] Voice 1: a look very quickly chair that

[1:52:51] Trustee Middleton: captures it would you say trustee

[1:52:53] Voice 6: not quite because it looks like

[1:52:54] Voice 6: i've got five members there yeah yeah we don't want to have that so three members including the

[1:53:00] Voice 6: ceo and two others so just have the word and including sorry or

[1:53:06] Voice 10: should it be comprised of

[1:53:07] Voice 10: the ceo rather than including i don't think the

[1:53:10] Voice 1: evaluation team consists of six people i think

[1:53:19] Voice 1: plus three trustees from the select committee and Julia Crosby as the facilitator.

[1:53:25] Voice 1: That is what we were talking about in my opinion.

[1:53:28] Trustee Middleton: Can we go to the vote?

[1:53:31] Trustee Middleton: Okay, those in favor?

[1:53:34] Trustee Middleton: I oppose.

[1:53:37] Trustee Middleton: Okay, that carries unanimously.

[1:53:40] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[1:53:41] Trustee Middleton: Now that we've done this heavy work, do we have patience left in our last three minutes of meeting time

[1:53:47] Trustee Middleton: to choose those three members of the steering committee.

[1:53:51] Trustee Middleton: So then we have a complete finality.

[1:53:57] Trustee Middleton: Or is that something that, I mean, if that waits till the next meeting is,

[1:54:03] Trustee Middleton: I'm not sure that it matters to be honest.

[1:54:06] Trustee Middleton: Well, I guess it matters in the sense that.

[1:54:08] Trustee Middleton: It matters, sir.

[1:54:10] Trustee Middleton: I'm

[1:54:10] Voice 13: going to move that Lee Middleton be one of the members of the steering committee

[1:54:17] Voice 13: that's on the selection committee I'll

[1:54:21] Voice 10: second that yeah

[1:54:23] Trustee Middleton: thank you I accept you

[1:54:28] Trustee Middleton: should

[1:54:28] Voice 13: probably call the you probably call the vote vice chair if and when

[1:54:31] Voice 13: okay

[1:54:31] Trustee Middleton: any any any I guess any comments on that no okay the vote please those in

[1:54:38] Trustee Middleton: favor all

[1:54:41] Trustee Critchley: right okay

[1:54:43] Trustee Middleton: I don't I don't think I vote in that case so I didn't

[1:54:45] Trustee Middleton: but it looks like that carries and I'm

[1:54:50] Voice 13: gonna move that keys Langer ice be

[1:54:52] Voice 13: another one of these select the selection committee members the steering

[1:54:57] Voice 13: sorry the scoring committee members I'm tired I

[1:55:03] Trustee Middleton: look seconder mm-hmm seconder

[1:55:07] Trustee Middleton: please second okay trustee Critchley seconded that any comments called the

[1:55:14] Trustee Middleton: vote those in favor aye okay that carries so now we have uh a third uh uh chair luckham you have

[1:55:24] Trustee Middleton: your hand up yes i

[1:55:26] Trustee Luckham: would like to move that deb morrison be appointed to the committee um and if

[1:55:31] Trustee Luckham: she is unavailable that uh officially be appointed i'll

[1:55:37] Trustee Middleton: second that second if i trust trustee langer

[1:55:40] Trustee Middleton: eyes um it seems a uh a well-worded motion any any comment that was in favor oh comment just

[1:55:50] Trustee Middleton: i

[1:55:50] Voice 13: would like to hear if since we don't know what deb's position is i'd like to hear what

[1:55:55] Voice 13: uh trustee christie's position is on being a member

[1:55:59] Voice 12: yeah i i'm not comfortable with uh

[1:56:03] Voice 12: electing or suggesting that morrison be a member if she's not here with all due respect i'm it's

[1:56:09] Voice 12: It's not that I have any doubts about it, but I just don't think we should put her on the spot.

[1:56:16] Trustee Luckham: And that's why I specified that if she is unavailable or unwilling, that David Critchley be appointed.

[1:56:23] Trustee Luckham: That

[1:56:24] Voice 12: David Critchley become a far second choice.

[1:56:29] Voice 12: David, are you willing to stand?

[1:56:30] Voice 12: uh

[1:56:32] Trustee Critchley: you know i have a preference that um that uh paul brent be one of the people since he has uh

[1:56:43] Trustee Critchley: expertise and experience let's say at least in that area and i have none so that would be my

[1:56:49] Trustee Critchley: preference if we um

[1:56:52] Trustee Critchley: thank you

[1:56:56] Trustee Middleton: is that in the context of the motion as presented so first

[1:56:59] Trustee Middleton: offered to trustee Morrison and then if she's deems herself not able that would

[1:57:07] Trustee Middleton: go to trustee Brent would that be considered a friendly amendment to your

[1:57:10] Trustee Middleton: motion and trustee Luckum

[1:57:13] Voice 7: well I don't I think that changes the intent but I

[1:57:19] Voice 7: think it's up to David Critchley to say yes or no that he is not will not stand

[1:57:27] Trustee Critchley: all right um if paul is willing to stand i will not stand

[1:57:35] Voice 13: i'll stand great well

[1:57:39] Voice 7: then then and i will uh was that motion seconded uh

[1:57:44] Trustee Middleton: yes trustee langry

[1:57:46] Trustee Middleton: seconded

[1:57:46] Voice 7: yeah let's assume that it wasn't because chrissy didn't accept the nomination so i would

[1:57:51] Voice 7: then move the trustee brent be the uh alternate okay

[1:57:56] Trustee Middleton: um do we need an alt no let's not assume

[1:58:03] Trustee Middleton: that we're we're it's one meeting i'm sure we can find the the membership required okay so that so

[1:58:08] Trustee Middleton: um i'll call the vote on that that uh those in favor all right

[1:58:15] Trustee Middleton: those are those opposed

[1:58:17] Trustee Middleton: post. I see that again carries unanimously if I'm not mistaken. I believe this concludes the

[1:58:28] Trustee Middleton: business of the select committee. I just

[1:58:33] Voice 6: want to thank every member of the committee for this

[1:58:35] Voice 6: discussion. I appreciate it. In my opinion, I think this is the wisest decision that you could

[1:58:43] Voice 6: have made and I think you should feel confident that you will have a good outcome associated with

[1:58:48] Voice 6: this process and uh thank you very much yes um

[1:58:54] Trustee Middleton: likewise thank you

[1:58:55] Trustee Middleton: for your flexibility

[1:58:56] Trustee Middleton: because

[1:58:57] Voice 13: it's 503. oh uh

[1:58:59] Trustee Middleton: there's a message from lori has a

[1:59:02] Trustee Middleton: host next

[1:59:03] Voice 1: meeting yes

[1:59:05] Voice 5: there is no

[1:59:05] Voice 5: scheduled next meeting select committee so you'll need to make a decision on that or um

[1:59:10] Trustee Middleton: put a motion

[1:59:11] Trustee Middleton: on the table yeah

[1:59:12] Trustee Middleton: could we could i have a motion please that would uh have i think i i floated

[1:59:20] Trustee Middleton: this earlier and i didn't hear any negative response from judith crosby uh that it would

[1:59:25] Trustee Middleton: be the 19th so that gives ample time for review and then um the the um this would actually be

[1:59:33] Trustee Middleton: the meeting a meeting of the evaluation committee or evaluation group um we would then need a

[1:59:45] Trustee Middleton: meeting of the the select committee as a whole to actually advance to the contracting stage i think

[1:59:52] Trustee Middleton: But that could be, I don't know, to Russ's point, we're compressing things.

[2:00:00] Trustee Middleton: it the 26th i think that's too late could we why

[2:00:06] Voice 13: don't we do both on the 19th okay from the 19th

[2:00:12] Trustee Luckham: is a good suggestion yeah

[2:00:14] Trustee Middleton: okay okay so

[2:00:16] Trustee Luckham: the motion with the consensus so

[2:00:19] Trustee Middleton: i don't i don't think we

[2:00:20] Trustee Middleton: need to name the date of the evaluation committee as that's uh

[2:00:23] Trustee Middleton: um but if we can name the date for

[2:00:26] Trustee Middleton: our next meeting then it's 3 p.m uh april 19th iso move i

[2:00:31] Trustee Luckham: might suggest i might suggest you do

[2:00:34] Trustee Luckham: that an hour earlier to allow the hour generous hour that julia has suggested would be required

[2:00:40] Trustee Luckham: for the consensus committee oh

[2:00:43] Trustee Middleton: i see what you're saying okay so we uh uh the consensus committee

[2:00:50] Voice 6: committee is not all of you it's the select committee so yeah

[2:00:55] Trustee Middleton: okay so the the consensus

[2:00:57] Trustee Middleton: committee may be earlier that morning it's just the consensus committee has to be a sufficient

[2:01:03] Trustee Middleton: time to review and score the proposals but prior to the next meeting of the select committee to

[2:01:08] Trustee Middleton: proceed with calm right so if we leave

[2:01:11] Trustee Luckham: it at that no that's

[2:01:13] Trustee Luckham: quite all right yeah yeah

[2:01:17] Voice 10: I have a

[2:01:18] Voice 10: i have a question there's no requirement for

[2:01:21] Voice 10: a notice of a meeting of the the selection committee

[2:01:25] Voice 10: this is right off the table it's not a public meeting yeah yeah yeah okay just wanted to

[2:01:31] Voice 10: confirm that

[2:01:32] Voice 1: so that's three o'clock on april the 19th correct very

[2:01:36] Trustee Luckham: good yeah

[2:01:37] Voice 1: and then um

[2:01:41] Trustee Middleton: yes chair

[2:01:42] Voice 13: middleton i presume that you will contact uh trustee morrison to find

[2:01:47] Voice 13: out whether she is um willing to stand or not you'll let me know one way or the other

[2:01:53] Trustee Middleton: i will do thank you uh for the reminder um and then chair yeah i

[2:02:00] Trustee Luckham: just want to thank the committee

[2:02:01] Trustee Luckham: um for uh the decisions here uh the decision that's been made i i think that you will find

[2:02:09] Trustee Luckham: uh support uh from trust council in uh in this process that was recommended by the

[2:02:14] Trustee Luckham: see you so thank you very much really appreciate it

[2:02:17] Voice 13: thank

[2:02:18] Trustee Middleton: you everyone for your flexibility

[2:02:20] Trustee Middleton: as we've gone down this journey here um yeah and i'm

[2:02:26] Voice 13: moving it okay i'll

[2:02:28] Trustee Middleton: second it and thanks

[2:02:30] Trustee Middleton: thanks everybody favor okay it looks unanimous thank you everyone bye-bye