North Pender Island Local Trust Committee community information meeting, April 29, 2021

[0:00:00] Trustee Patrick: i just sent her a text good morning thank you for joining us please stand by we'll start the

[0:00:05] Trustee Patrick: meeting in just a moment we're just waiting for one more person or you might as well if you want

[0:00:34] Trustee Patrick: to try calling but i did text but it said delivered but doesn't say read just trying

[0:00:41] Trustee Patrick: to locate trustee morrison and we'll start the meeting in just a moment up there she is

[0:00:59] Trustee Patrick: good morning how

[0:01:02] Trustee Morrison: are you today well sorry

[0:01:04] Trustee Morrison: that's okay

[0:01:05] Trustee Morrison: not in my normal setting it's been a little

[0:01:08] Trustee Morrison: little challenging okay

[0:01:09] Trustee Patrick: all right well are you prepared and ready to get started excellent so

[0:01:13] Trustee Patrick: we're gonna i'm gonna whoops read the right screen on my computer here we are so good morning everyone

[0:01:19] Trustee Patrick: and thank you very much for joining us today i'd like to call this meeting to order of the north

[0:01:24] Trustee Patrick: pender island local trust committee this meeting is being recorded and live streamed i want to

[0:01:30] Trustee Patrick: begin by acknowledging how fortunate we are to be able to gather all across the traditional

[0:01:34] Trustee Patrick: territories of the Coast Salish people. I'm honored and privileged to be able to

[0:01:38] Trustee Patrick: steward land within this territory. I want to begin, I'm Laura Patrick, not awake

[0:01:46] Trustee Patrick: yet, elected here on Salt Spring Island and chair of this local trust committee.

[0:01:51] Trustee Patrick: I'm joined today by trustee Deb Morrison, good morning Deb, and trustee Ben McConkey,

[0:01:57] Trustee Patrick: good morning Deb. Good morning. Together we make up your North Tender Island local

[0:02:00] Trustee Patrick: trust committee. This meeting is an official forum for your local trust

[0:02:04] Trustee Patrick: committee to make decisions about land use planning matters and discuss relevant business.

[0:02:08] Trustee Patrick: I also want to add that this is a place of employment. Despite the fact that many of our

[0:02:12] Trustee Patrick: staff may be coming from their own homes, they have the right to a safe and respectful workplace.

[0:02:17] Trustee Patrick: We're grateful for the ability to have an electronic meeting. Trustees, staff, the public

[0:02:21] Trustee Patrick: don't have to travel, and we're honoring the provincial health orders during the pandemic.

[0:02:26] Trustee Patrick: As this is electronic meeting, there may be difficulties at times, and please be patient

[0:02:31] Trustee Patrick: as we work to overcome them and we've muted everyone's microphone so there are no audio

[0:02:36] Trustee Patrick: disruptions and I'll review in a few moments the town hall and how that will work we have some

[0:02:41] Trustee Patrick: staff joining us today and I'd like to introduce them we have Maple Hung our office administrator

[0:02:46] Trustee Patrick: who makes this meeting work and everything behind the scenes so thank you very much Maple

[0:02:50] Trustee Patrick: we have Shannon Brayford is our minute taker good morning Shannon and we have Robert Kojima

[0:02:56] Trustee Patrick: regional planning manager all right and we have uh kim stockdale and phil testamal our planners

[0:03:02] Trustee Patrick: welcome to the meeting i want to first turn we have a very busy agenda before us are there any

[0:03:10] Trustee Patrick: additions or changes that need to be made to the agenda not

[0:03:14] Trustee McConchie: for me no thanks for patrick all right

[0:03:17] Trustee Patrick: can we approve the agenda through general consent yeah all right just want to warn everyone it is a

[0:03:22] Trustee Patrick: a very busy meeting. Lots to do. I'm going to be ruthless as a chair and work hard. Trustees,

[0:03:28] Trustee Patrick: let me know if I'm either not going fast enough or too fast. And I'll talk about the town hall

[0:03:35] Trustee Patrick: because I'll be strict on the time of the town hall today. So we have reports. So first we have

[0:03:44] Trustee Patrick: trustee reports. Who'd like to go first?

[0:03:46] Trustee McConchie: I can go first if you want, Trustee Morrison. That'd be

[0:03:49] Trustee McConchie: okay yeah you get while you get settled there well good morning everyone and thanks to those

[0:03:52] Trustee McConchie: folks that are uh either watching this later on or um are part of the meeting today on online

[0:03:58] Trustee McConchie: i want to thank the staff for preparing a full agenda and a lot of work that we've been doing

[0:04:03] Trustee McConchie: on north pender island here um first of all i want to thank the volunteers and members of the

[0:04:07] Trustee McConchie: bc ministry of health uh yesterday was a historic day for north pender island when we had our very

[0:04:12] Trustee McConchie: first vaccination uh clinic i was just so stoked to see so many community members out and about

[0:04:18] Trustee McConchie: getting their jab and congratulations to to the island for working so hard to get to this point

[0:04:24] Trustee McConchie: um i i don't know what to say other than uh it just was uh really really awesome to see and i'm

[0:04:29] Trustee McConchie: looking forward to getting my vaccination on may the 6th next week um i want to mention that as

[0:04:35] Trustee McConchie: chair of the parks and recreation commission for pender island um the crd is making really

[0:04:40] Trustee McConchie: important steps i believe towards reconciliation initiatives uh that will impact uh pender

[0:04:45] Trustee McConchie: islanders lives for example the Mortimer spit is not going to be graded this year that we made a

[0:04:51] Trustee McConchie: decision because it's been deemed to be a archaeological site and we want to respect that

[0:04:56] Trustee McConchie: so it will be very bump if you choose to drive your car down onto the spit it will be very very

[0:05:01] Trustee McConchie: bumpy so but we want to certainly honour our friends in the WSANIC leadership council and

[0:05:08] Trustee McConchie: their efforts to protect and preserve that area of very important archaeological area of North

[0:05:13] Trustee McConchie: pender and south pender island um and another issue uh that the islands uh appear to be open

[0:05:20] Trustee McConchie: season on helipads aerodromes and helicopters so through my research basically learned you know

[0:05:27] Trustee McConchie: even if you live in surrey on an acre lot you can basically land a helicopter on it and the

[0:05:33] Trustee McConchie: municipality can't do anything about it and such is happening here in the islands where we're kind

[0:05:38] Trustee McConchie: of entering a brave new world with transportation methods and certainly uh we need to make efforts

[0:05:42] Trustee McConchie: efforts to reconcile this, because to me, this is unacceptable. There should be limits and there

[0:05:48] Trustee McConchie: should be regulations in place. And I want to express my support to those folks that are

[0:05:52] Trustee McConchie: negatively impacted by recent developments in their community regarding aerodromes and

[0:05:58] Trustee McConchie: helicopter usage. On a personal note, I've been traveling to Maine and the Galliano to teach music

[0:06:03] Trustee McConchie: classes on my tin boat. I've teached them outside and it's given me an opportunity to see those

[0:06:08] Trustee McConchie: islands and realize how connected we are environmentally and through our island communities.

[0:06:15] Trustee McConchie: The last, I could go on, but certainly I want to keep this brief. I want to express my appreciation

[0:06:21] Trustee McConchie: to MLA Adam Olson for his comments in the legislature regarding giving the Islands Trust

[0:06:26] Trustee McConchie: broader powers to do something about regulating forestry on North Bender Island. And my last

[0:06:33] Trustee McConchie: last comment I just have to make is that very, very stoked to be meeting with a very active

[0:06:40] Trustee McConchie: farmer community here on North Pender Island. And I had a very productive meeting with members of

[0:06:46] Trustee McConchie: the Agricultural Advisory Planning Commission. And I really appreciated all the efforts of those

[0:06:52] Trustee McConchie: volunteers. So thanks. That's my report. Thank

[0:06:56] Voice 7: you, Trustee McConkie. Trustee Morrison.

[0:06:58] Voice 7: Morrison.

[0:06:59] Trustee Morrison: Great. Thank you. So, um, I'll be fairly brief, I think. Um, so yeah, I echo many of the

[0:07:07] Trustee Morrison: things that, um, Ben has said. I also, um, had a chance to meet both with the, um, uh, APC and

[0:07:18] Trustee Morrison: the agricultural APC, um, sorry, acronym challenge this morning. Um, and really thanks to all of

[0:07:26] Trustee Morrison: those for the comments and thinking around that. It's been helpful to process my own thinking.

[0:07:32] Trustee Morrison: I also realized that there's going to be some work being done in the Magic Lake areas by the CRD.

[0:07:39] Trustee Morrison: And so I understand that the contractor for that is on the island now. And so as that goes forward

[0:07:47] Trustee Morrison: with the sewer line replacement work, there will be some conversations and things that we'll need

[0:07:53] Trustee Morrison: to address as a community um so just to be aware that that's starting to happen in the space thanks

[0:07:59] Trustee Morrison: to all those who are getting vaccinated helping to keep our community safe um and yeah i'm looking

[0:08:06] Trustee Morrison: forward to getting vaccinated next week as well um and um i managed to get a pender post in too

[0:08:14] Trustee Morrison: so check out the pender post and i'll try and get that posted online as well um but just a a few

[0:08:21] Trustee Morrison: other things going on in the islands around some of the climate change speaker series that should

[0:08:26] Trustee Morrison: be progressing. It looks like there is the website, the new website is getting released

[0:08:33] Trustee Morrison: imminently. And some of the other work that's going forward on the trust, there should be in

[0:08:39] Trustee Morrison: the next month, I think, and Laura, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think in the next month or

[0:08:44] Trustee Morrison: so, there should be the package for June released for the June Trust Council. And so it'd be great

[0:08:50] Trustee Morrison: if folks had a look at that because there's some really critical pieces for the trust policy

[0:08:53] Trustee Morrison: statement review and I would really love people's eyes on that so I think that's that's it for now

[0:09:02] Trustee Morrison: and yeah on on my personal note I really am excited my daughter got accepted to school in

[0:09:11] Trustee Morrison: Europe for the United World Colleges and so really excited about that but we'll see when she can go

[0:09:18] Trustee Morrison: based on what you can get vaccinated so all

[0:09:20] Trustee Patrick: right well congratulations deb that's a feat to get into

[0:09:26] Trustee Patrick: the united world colleges and speaks a lot of what your daughter is doing on the world stage

[0:09:31] Trustee Patrick: because uh it's an amazing program and uh that's wonderful wonderful wonderful please pass

[0:09:39] Trustee Patrick: congratulations i'm not surprised though smarter than me that's for sure it's

[0:09:44] Trustee Patrick: tough to get into so

[0:09:45] Trustee Patrick: So that's fantastic.

[0:09:47] Trustee Patrick: All right.

[0:09:48] Trustee Patrick: I just wanted to never get to see my fellow trustees very often

[0:09:52] Trustee Patrick: as we all have busy lives,

[0:09:53] Trustee Patrick: but I just wanted Deb to know that I'm bringing a motion forward

[0:09:56] Trustee Patrick: to the Executive Committee next week

[0:09:57] Trustee Patrick: asking that the Executive Committee direct staff

[0:10:00] Trustee Patrick: to investigate the benefits and opportunities of the Islands Trust

[0:10:03] Trustee Patrick: to cooperate with others in the anticipated fall grant intake

[0:10:08] Trustee Patrick: for the Government of Canada's Nature Smart Climate Solutions Fund.

[0:10:11] Trustee Patrick: I do know that the Blue Green Forum and so forth

[0:10:15] Trustee Patrick: that occurred our work that's underway for pulling together a grant application under that and

[0:10:20] Trustee Patrick: working closely with first nations and so i'm asking that the islands trust consider that as

[0:10:25] Trustee Patrick: part of its forestry initiatives and and the climate change initiatives that we're working on

[0:10:29] Trustee Patrick: that it's a it's a fantastic opportunity so fingers crossed that we can work together on that

[0:10:34] Trustee Patrick: so deb did mention the new website so please it is imminently um they're just working out as always

[0:10:41] Trustee Patrick: with websites, some last minute technical difficulties, but it should be up and available

[0:10:45] Trustee Patrick: soon. Very different look. It's meant to be far more informative, easier to find information.

[0:10:51] Trustee Patrick: It will be different from the other websites. So your experience will be different. Please be

[0:10:56] Trustee Patrick: patient and know that we are working, we'll be having to work through the normal bugs and issues

[0:11:02] Trustee Patrick: as like today, the agenda package disappeared off of the old website yesterday as they're in the

[0:11:09] Trustee Patrick: the transition to the new website. Anybody who needs a package and would like a copy of today's

[0:11:13] Trustee Patrick: agenda package, please email southinfo at islandstrust.bc.ca. And our administrator,

[0:11:21] Trustee Patrick: Maple, will right away send you that document. So again, southinfo at islandstrust.bc.ca.

[0:11:30] Trustee Patrick: Yay. So that then brings us on to the today's town hall. So as I said, we do have a busy meeting. I

[0:11:40] Trustee Patrick: have the good old timer out here in front of me today. I do ask that you limit your speaking time

[0:11:46] Trustee Patrick: three minutes max, and I will try to move you along. Do know that your comments and information

[0:11:54] Trustee Patrick: is critically important to us. And so if you don't feel you have the time to speak or couldn't get

[0:12:00] Trustee Patrick: everything you wanted to say done please email us at southinfo at bc.ca islandstrust.bc.ca

[0:12:07] Trustee Patrick: and we will always welcome your information so the town hall is your opportunity to speak we

[0:12:13] Trustee Patrick: want to hear your questions and comments at this time if you are an applicant we will discuss

[0:12:18] Trustee Patrick: with you you'll have an opportunity to speak with us later your your input to us is important to

[0:12:25] Trustee Patrick: to help us make good decisions.

[0:12:27] Trustee Patrick: And please direct your comments

[0:12:29] Trustee Patrick: to the local trust committee, not the audience or staff.

[0:12:32] Trustee Patrick: Speak about issues, not individuals.

[0:12:35] Trustee Patrick: Be clear, concise, and respectful.

[0:12:37] Trustee Patrick: So with that, is there anyone

[0:12:39] Trustee Patrick: that wishes to speak to us today?

[0:12:41] Trustee Patrick: I see there's a Chris Roper, Roper?

[0:12:46] Trustee Patrick: Good morning, Chris.

[0:12:48] Trustee Patrick: Hello.

[0:12:48] Voice 15: Good morning.

[0:12:50] Trustee Patrick: I hope

[0:12:50] Voice 15: you can hear me clearly.

[0:12:51] Trustee Patrick: Yes.

[0:12:52] Voice 15: Okay, good.

[0:12:53] Voice 15: Thank you.

[0:12:54] Voice 15: And thank you all for your time and efforts

[0:12:56] Voice 15: on behalf of us Islanders.

[0:12:59] Voice 15: We look up to and respect you for your efforts.

[0:13:02] Voice 15: Thank you.

[0:13:03] Voice 15: I am the neighbor of the helicopter owner.

[0:13:10] Voice 15: And I want to be very brief because I know time is tight,

[0:13:14] Voice 15: but I'd like to say that it could happen

[0:13:20] Voice 15: in a neighborhood next to you.

[0:13:27] Voice 15: Thank you.

[0:13:29] Trustee Patrick: All right.

[0:13:29] Trustee Patrick: Thank you very much, Chris.

[0:13:30] Trustee Patrick: all right uh you see we have a barbara good morning barbara you just need to take yourself

[0:13:45] Trustee Patrick: off mute should be on the lower left there we go good morning

[0:13:51] Trustee Patrick: hello

[0:13:52] Voice 2: sorry i'm on barbara's

[0:13:53] Voice 2: computer it's uh i tried to log in on my computer and um had all kinds of problems so i had to

[0:14:01] Voice 2: switch to another one so i think there's some glitches on the uh on the links between your

[0:14:05] Voice 2: your notification and this meeting. But anyway, notwithstanding that, I was also,

[0:14:11] Voice 2: and I'll join Chris in saying thank you so much for all the work you guys are doing. I think you

[0:14:16] Voice 2: do an incredibly hard job, and I sure wouldn't want to be in your shoes some days. Thank you.

[0:14:23] Voice 2: I want to talk about eagles also. Not just eagles, but helicopters. I think you may know that eagles

[0:14:29] Voice 2: are now incubating, and helicopters are still flying. And I think that is a travesty. On top

[0:14:38] Voice 2: of that, the owner of the helicopter is now building infrastructure on his property surrounding

[0:14:42] Voice 2: the helicopter, which and I have not seen it, but I have been told that it looks as though it is a

[0:14:48] Voice 2: hangar. I presume that's being done without approvals. But perhaps that's something that

[0:14:56] Voice 2: could be followed up on. I also am sort of the mouthpiece, I guess, or the ad hoc spokesperson

[0:15:02] Voice 2: for Neptune Neighbors. It's a group of about 60 people now that was started probably about 10-12

[0:15:10] Voice 2: years ago, when the Timbers were trying to become a resort in this area. And Neptune is the area

[0:15:17] Voice 2: between Trincomalee and Magic Lake on the Trinco Peninsula. Mostly big lots, 10 acres, but they're

[0:15:25] Voice 2: they're all extremely narrow. The helicopter is on a lot that is 300 feet wide at most where it

[0:15:32] Voice 2: is landing, which puts it about 100 feet away from Chris's property. I can imagine that why

[0:15:39] Voice 2: I hope you can imagine what it would be like living and trying to enjoy your property when

[0:15:44] Voice 2: you are 100 feet away from where a helicopter is going to land. It's just awful. For the past

[0:15:49] Voice 2: two months, we've been doing your homework for you, not you trustees, but probably for staff.

[0:15:53] Voice 2: We've spoken to the Ministry of Environment in Ottawa, we've spoken to Elizabeth May, we've spoken to BC Ministry of Forests and Lands, we've spoken to CRD, we've spoken to Ministry of Transport many times.

[0:16:05] Voice 2: And I was dismayed that your staff came back to you and told you that you had no jurisdiction. It's absolutely wrong.

[0:16:13] Voice 2: The Ministry of Transport have confirmed in writing that they have no regulations surrounding landing of private helicopters.

[0:16:19] Voice 2: helicopters. You have land use regulations that you can utilize to control that. I think that

[0:16:28] Voice 2: someone in Victoria who didn't even understand the difference between a helipad and an aerodrome

[0:16:34] Voice 2: dug up some legal response that was totally erroneous and has led you down the garden path

[0:16:41] Voice 2: for the last month, that you do have the authority to put in place land use regulations that restrict

[0:16:47] Voice 2: where helicopters land and to show the evidence of that is seven other islands have official

[0:16:54] Voice 2: community plans and have regulations surrounding the use of helicopters panda has it in the

[0:16:59] Voice 2: official community plan i don't believe we have a bylaw that's specific but we have it in the

[0:17:03] Voice 2: official community plan um i'm just dismayed that everybody brushed this off um without even phoning

[0:17:10] Voice 2: um any of the people who are doing all this homework so i want to wrap up

[0:17:14] Trustee Patrick: please sorry

[0:17:15] Trustee Patrick: Okay, sure. I'd like to

[0:17:17] Voice 2: ask you, first of all, put this on the agenda. I cannot believe you did

[0:17:21] Voice 2: not have this on the agenda after all of the noise that's happening on this island. I would

[0:17:25] Voice 2: like you to also instruct staff to draft a bylaw on behalf of the residents of this island and to

[0:17:33] Voice 2: put Mr. Quinn on notice that helicopters are not allowed on this island. I would be happy to talk

[0:17:38] Voice 2: to people more if anybody chooses to phone me. Jim Burrows, I think you know where to find me.

[0:17:43] Voice 2: I

[0:17:43] Trustee Patrick: thank you Jim. Thank you.

[0:17:46] Trustee Patrick: I think as I just want to remind you that Ben Malkinke mentioned

[0:17:49] Trustee Patrick: during his report that we are seeking further advice on this on this topic and we'll have more

[0:17:55] Trustee Patrick: information to come as soon as soon as we have it.

[0:17:57] Trustee McConchie: So yeah so it is on the agenda so Jim was

[0:18:00] Trustee McConchie: Jim was incorrect it's it is on the agenda we are discussing it.

[0:18:04] Trustee Patrick: Well okay thank you. Is there

[0:18:06] Trustee Patrick: anyone else that wishes to address us today? Let's see Chris has raised his hand again. Is there

[0:18:13] Trustee Patrick: there anyone up before i ask chris for a second time i just want to make sure is anyone else that

[0:18:17] Trustee Patrick: has had a chance to speak for the first time i'm not seeing anyone so chris uh yes oh sorry uh

[0:18:27] Trustee Patrick: someone beat you to it uh sandy has raised a hand sandy uh if you take yourself off mute hello hi

[0:18:35] Voice 6: hi hi i'm gonna be really really brief i just want to uh underscore everything that jim burrows said

[0:18:42] Voice 6: I don't live on Oaks Bluff, I live in Magic Lake. The Oaks Bluff hike is a trail I do often

[0:18:52] Voice 6: and I'm a trail friend for that hike for the Parks Commission. I've written to you folks with

[0:19:00] Voice 6: the wording for a bylaw change so I think that this should be a very simple thing to do. It's

[0:19:06] Voice 6: It's based on what South Pender has.

[0:19:09] Voice 6: And so I just want to reiterate that here,

[0:19:11] Voice 6: that I think you guys should just go ahead and do this

[0:19:15] Voice 6: because other people have done it.

[0:19:17] Voice 6: And let's not dilly-dally.

[0:19:18] Voice 6: Let's not wait for, pay for legal opinions

[0:19:21] Voice 6: and all this stuff.

[0:19:23] Voice 6: We have land use authority.

[0:19:25] Voice 6: Let's just do it, see what happens.

[0:19:27] Voice 6: That's my point of view.

[0:19:29] Voice 6: Thanks for listening.

[0:19:30] Trustee Patrick: Thank you.

[0:19:33] Trustee Patrick: All right.

[0:19:33] Trustee Patrick: Is there anyone else that wishes to address us today

[0:19:35] Trustee Patrick: before I let Chris speak a second time?

[0:19:37] Trustee Patrick: that i see so chris thank

[0:19:48] Voice 15: you for allowing me a second voice um i just wanted to point out that

[0:19:53] Voice 15: a um within neptune estates which is 40 40 properties uh there was a letter circulating

[0:20:02] Voice 15: welcoming uh mr quinn to the neighborhood and just requesting that he not fly his helicopter

[0:20:09] Voice 15: And I did want to point out that that letter, which has been delivered, was signed by the majority of landowners in Neptune Estates.

[0:20:19] Voice 15: So this is a, it is an island issue.

[0:20:24] Voice 15: It's a close-in Neptune issue, but it's certainly not constrained to Neptune.

[0:20:32] Voice 15: Neptune. And flight paths out of the Neptune area adversely affect quite a few other areas,

[0:20:40] Voice 15: including parts of South Pender. So it is quite wide in scope. But I did want to bring to your

[0:20:48] Voice 15: attention that signatures have been sought and secured and now delivered. So thank you.

[0:20:54] Voice 15: Thank

[0:20:54] Trustee Patrick: you very much, Chris. All right, last opportunity to speak to us today.

[0:21:00] Trustee Patrick: days move on to our agenda not seeing anyone again like I said your comments are always

[0:21:07] Trustee Patrick: important to us please send emails to southinfo at islandstress.bc.ca we do want to hear from you

[0:21:15] Trustee Patrick: okay but that I I did I know we approved the agenda then I I forgot to read my own notes um

[0:21:22] Trustee Patrick: I was going to suggest that we had moved um um the item about for the land use bylaw review on

[0:21:30] Trustee Patrick: agriculture up to the delegation section so I if you wanted to run that more as a question and

[0:21:36] Trustee Patrick: answer related to that report or keep them as separate items I forgot to ask you how you'd like

[0:21:42] Trustee Patrick: to run that part I

[0:21:43] Trustee McConchie: don't know I don't know if they need to be a delegation like they're we're

[0:21:46] Trustee McConchie: they're reporting on their work and then and

[0:21:49] Trustee Patrick: then have a question answer

[0:21:50] Trustee McConchie: but do you want to deal

[0:21:51] Trustee Patrick: with the the report the item 13 uh sorry uh 14.3 at the same time while they're here in that

[0:22:00] Trustee Patrick: that conversation?

[0:22:05] Trustee McConchie: That to me seems like a separate issue, if I recall.

[0:22:08] Trustee Patrick: Well, it's the table.

[0:22:10] Trustee Patrick: It's the agricultural. It's

[0:22:12] Trustee McConchie: based on their report.

[0:22:14] Trustee McConchie: I'd be happy to move 14.3 to when we have folks

[0:22:18] Trustee McConchie: from the advisory planning, the agriculture advising planning.

[0:22:21] Trustee Patrick: All right. Thank you. Sorry.

[0:22:25] Trustee Patrick: Braised right by it. Okay. With that, we have a few minutes. We have some minutes that need to be

[0:22:30] Trustee Patrick: adopted. We have our regular meeting minutes from March 25th, page four of the report. Are there any

[0:22:37] Trustee Patrick: additions or corrections that need to be made to those minutes? No.

[0:22:43] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Morrison, you look

[0:22:44] Trustee Patrick: none from you. Okay. Can we approve those minutes through general consent? Yeah. Thank you. And then

[0:22:49] Trustee Patrick: we also have our special meeting minutes from March 18th. Are there any additions or corrections

[0:22:55] Trustee Patrick: that need to be made to those? Not seeing any. Can we approve through general consent? Yes. Yes. And

[0:23:02] Trustee Patrick: And then we also have our special meeting minutes from March 26th.

[0:23:05] Trustee Patrick: Again, any corrections?

[0:23:08] Trustee Patrick: No.

[0:23:08] Trustee Patrick: Again, can we approve through general consent?

[0:23:10] Trustee Patrick: Yes.

[0:23:11] Trustee Patrick: Excellent.

[0:23:11] Trustee Patrick: And then we have finally our minutes from April the 1st, special meeting minutes.

[0:23:16] Trustee Patrick: Any changes to those?

[0:23:18] Trustee Patrick: Again, can we approve through general consent?

[0:23:20] Trustee Patrick: Excellent.

[0:23:23] Trustee Patrick: So with that, we go to our follow-up action list, which is on page 21 of the agenda package.

[0:23:30] Trustee Patrick: are there any just trying to move to my back to the right document here um any questions for staff

[0:23:40] Trustee Patrick: or anything that staff needs to bring up from the follow-up action list so

[0:23:47] Trustee Morrison: laura i'm just it's a

[0:23:49] Trustee Morrison: different system for me here today um can you give me page numbers when we switch sections

[0:23:54] Trustee Morrison: page 21

[0:23:55] Trustee Morrison: thank you all right no

[0:24:01] Trustee Patrick: i'm good planner stock deal is there anything you wish to

[0:24:06] Trustee Patrick: to bring to our attention on it no

[0:24:09] Planner Stockdill: not at this time oh actually

[0:24:10] Trustee Morrison: there was one thing here sorry

[0:24:12] Trustee Morrison: um so i was also under the same assumption that ben was that we actually had a follow-up issue

[0:24:20] Trustee Morrison: related to the helicopter but i don't see it on here and i'm wondering if somehow we didn't

[0:24:27] Trustee Morrison: clearly state that can staff help us with that like was there not something that we

[0:24:40] Trustee Morrison: asked for further information to figure out? There

[0:24:43] Planner Stockdill: was yeah there was a letter that was

[0:24:48] Planner Stockdill: signed by the chair that was completed so that task was done so I believe that's why it is no

[0:24:54] Planner Stockdill: longer on the follow-up action report. There is a open bylaw enforcement for this property so there

[0:25:02] Planner Stockdill: is further work being done on the staff level but in terms of the letter I'm not sure if that's what

[0:25:08] Planner Stockdill: you were referring to trustee morrison yeah and

[0:25:12] Trustee Morrison: so okay so it won't necessarily appear here if

[0:25:19] Trustee Morrison: it's by law action because that's on so

[0:25:22] Voice 3: with the march 25th meeting item number eight on page 23

[0:25:30] Voice 3: staff draft a letter to the federal ministry of transportation okay

[0:25:35] Trustee Morrison: got it so yeah i think

[0:25:38] Trustee Morrison: the thing that's throwing me off is I'm searching for the word helicopter

[0:25:43] Trustee Morrison: and it doesn't say the word helicopter so okay that's helpful um and so that's completed that's

[0:25:51] Trustee Morrison: really helpful thanks Robert and we I also don't actually see clearly where we're discussing that

[0:25:59] Trustee Morrison: later today like if there's any other follow-up things we need to take then um so I'm just

[0:26:05] Trustee Morrison: wanting to check and see if there was other things because i i did have a look at sandy's

[0:26:11] Trustee Morrison: potential bylaw thing and realized so maybe if i can ask us to be a little liberal with our agenda

[0:26:17] Trustee Morrison: and throw it under new business just to make sure that we come back to any other remaining pieces

[0:26:22] Trustee Morrison: on the helicopter yeah

[0:26:24] Trustee McConchie: like i think there's some folks that are listening that really want to see

[0:26:27] Trustee McConchie: some action and i don't know if they want us to get more emotional about it but i can assure people

[0:26:33] Trustee McConchie: people listening we're working as hard as we can on every possible angle to address this issue so

[0:26:38] Trustee McConchie: including this meeting right now so um and staff have been working hard and have not misled us

[0:26:44] Trustee McConchie: or anything like that this is a very complicated issue and we're working really hard to resolve it

[0:26:49] Trustee McConchie: so for those listening at home uh we're just going about this in a calm and logical manner

[0:26:55] Trustee McConchie: so i'm happy to add that to new business if you want to

[0:26:58] Trustee Patrick: uh trust you sorry about that

[0:27:00] Trustee Patrick: that Lauren that's okay

[0:27:01] Trustee Patrick: um all right so any other questions on the follow-up action list no

[0:27:07] Trustee McConchie: okay if

[0:27:09] Trustee Patrick: not at this time we have some members of the agricultural advisory planning commission with

[0:27:14] Trustee Patrick: us today and we have under item 14.3 on page 85 of our agenda package is a staff report that was

[0:27:23] Trustee Patrick: was created based on the report that was provided,

[0:27:28] Trustee Patrick: very detailed report that was provided

[0:27:30] Trustee Patrick: by the Agricultural Planning Commission.

[0:27:33] Trustee Patrick: So I guess at this time, I know, I think Maple,

[0:27:38] Trustee Patrick: are you going to promote, or I guess they already are,

[0:27:40] Trustee Patrick: are they promoted as panelists or are we gonna do this?

[0:27:44] Trustee Patrick: I

[0:27:45] Trustee McConchie: believe George and George LaRue

[0:27:47] Trustee McConchie: and perhaps Barb might be attending here today.

[0:27:51] Voice 16: Okay, so Chair Patrick, sorry,

[0:27:52] Voice 16: just to confirm you want george larue and barbara johnstone to be panelists um

[0:27:57] Trustee Patrick: yes i think that

[0:27:58] Trustee Patrick: would be helpful sure

[0:28:00] Voice 16: i'm just moving them over right now for you hi

[0:28:20] Trustee Patrick: good morning barbara and

[0:28:24] Trustee Patrick: george hello so trustees we have like said we have the the the report that we have from staff

[0:28:34] Trustee Patrick: staff that begins on page 85 and includes a table that begins on page 88 of the agenda package

[0:28:44] Trustee Patrick: that worked through. So how would you like to structure this conversation with

[0:28:50] Trustee Patrick: Barbara and George?

[0:28:52] Trustee McConchie: Well, Trustee Morrison, I have some suggestions. It's great to have,

[0:28:57] Trustee McConchie: you know, I believe, Barb, you were the chair, and I believe, George, you were the vice chair,

[0:29:02] Trustee McConchie: if i'm not mistaken no no

[0:29:04] Trustee McConchie: there's no vice chair yeah yeah okay i was trying to give you important

[0:29:06] Trustee McConchie: position here no well i wanted to hand it over to uh our volunteer um advisory planning commission

[0:29:14] Trustee McConchie: members who are trying to help us um with the land use bylaw review and i was hoping that uh

[0:29:19] Trustee McConchie: we'd give a bit of space and time uh for their reflections on uh what would be really important

[0:29:25] Trustee McConchie: for the local trust committee uh to consider and uh any any comments they had to do with the staff

[0:29:30] Trustee McConchie: reports. So I just thought and then I have some general questions and perhaps some direction to

[0:29:36] Trustee McConchie: provide with motions going forward. So I wanted to kind of that would be my idea. Not sure if you

[0:29:43] Trustee McConchie: agree, Chair Patrick or Trustee Morrison.

[0:29:45] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Morrison. All right. So begin with just sort of

[0:29:50] Trustee Patrick: some general conversation from Barbara and George.

[0:29:55] Voice 7: Yeah, I'd like to start off by saying that

[0:29:58] Voice 7: I think.

[0:30:00] Voice 7: that opportunity for us to work as a community. We had a really great group of people.

[0:30:06] Voice 7: If I could just list them, would that be possible? There was myself, George, who

[0:30:14] Voice 7: lives on Port Wash, affiliated with Raven Rock Farm. He also has a long-standing career in

[0:30:21] Voice 7: agriculture as a consultant and as a farmer. Richard Peace Corps on Port Wash with Hope Bay

[0:30:27] Voice 7: Bay Hop Farm. There was Anne Burdett on Razor Point with Hamilton Cove Farm. Martha McMahon

[0:30:34] Voice 7: on Bedwell Harbour, and she has Inish Isle Sheep Farm. Ben Cattle on Houston Road with Highgrove

[0:30:42] Voice 7: Farm and Commons. Barry Denluck on Port Wash, who's a beekeeper with Cottonwood Creek Farm.

[0:30:50] Voice 7: Matthew Vasiloff with Twin Island Cider, and he lives on Otter Bay Road, and they have a

[0:30:55] Voice 7: small garden there. And Stevenson on Clam Bay with Shore Haven Farm. And Kathy Heslop,

[0:31:05] Voice 7: who's a longtime resident, very active in the community, and she was good on the committee as

[0:31:09] Voice 7: well. And we were tasked to review the land use file and provide recommendations for your land

[0:31:14] Voice 7: use file or review. And originally, we had a November 27 deadline, which was way too short

[0:31:19] Voice 7: to give the project justice. So with the amount of review required we requested an extension

[0:31:26] Voice 7: and submitted the report January 4th. We met quite regularly even through power outages

[0:31:32] Voice 7: over over Christmas and such. We were notified the OCP was out of scope for this project

[0:31:39] Voice 7: and that hampered us a bit. It's been 16 years since our last OCP review.

[0:31:44] Voice 7: review. It's been probably updated piecemeal as you do little bylaw changes, but really it needs

[0:31:50] Voice 7: an overhaul. And it would have been probably better for us to do it in parallel with the land

[0:31:56] Voice 7: use bylaw review. But we did really appreciate this opportunity. And we encourage you to read

[0:32:03] Voice 7: the report because it's a good form of reference for you. It gives a good background on our

[0:32:09] Voice 7: reasonings for our decisions and we put in the OCP sections, the land use bylaw sections, the

[0:32:18] Voice 7: agricultural land, land reserve bylaws and all this for your reference. And

[0:32:29] Voice 7: Agricultural Land Commission is doing updates to the residential

[0:32:33] Voice 7: bylaws so I don't know where that stands right now but that that'll impact what happens.

[0:32:39] Voice 7: um we overall i think we had a little bit of discussion this morning when we realized we

[0:32:45] Voice 7: were actually going to also be a delegation so we thought we'd take this opportunity to just

[0:32:51] Voice 7: speak to that participatory nature of working with trustees is really important for you to

[0:32:57] Voice 7: have a very positive relationship with the community i know sometimes everything's reactive

[0:33:04] Voice 7: active and we'd like things to be more proactive

[0:33:07] Voice 9: um

[0:33:08] Voice 7: and we want to also keep that link to preserve

[0:33:12] Voice 7: and protect and the rural character so that's central to all the discussions and uh and all

[0:33:19] Voice 7: your work and so because we were already subject to many multiple layers of governance some are

[0:33:25] Voice 7: more senior than the than islands trust like the land for the land reserve we have the the land

[0:33:32] Voice 7: commission so we're and we also have you know food safe we have many uh island health we have

[0:33:39] Voice 7: many areas that combine sometimes they're in conflict a bit and we're all trying to

[0:33:48] Voice 7: we're a very broad community of small-scale farmers nobody is really a large commercial

[0:33:54] Voice 7: farmer here you may have a lot of land but it's hard to do intensive agriculture here because

[0:34:00] Voice 7: of the ferries the cost and so we just would like there to be more enabling

[0:34:08] Voice 7: um trust policies enabling regulations enable and regulation kind of don't come together but

[0:34:19] Voice 7: um so we are asking for that to be in your lens when you're looking at these things

[0:34:26] Voice 7: because we have a very economic our economic reality is that nobody is making a lot of money

[0:34:31] Voice 7: they're probably more social enterprises than anything and we're very dedicated to our community

[0:34:39] Voice 7: and providing the service to our community is the way we see it at this time I think I've

[0:34:47] Voice 7: covered everything I have random notes here that I've been taking from our meeting this morning

[0:34:53] Voice 7: but we want there to be an ecological land-based governance perspective always so that we're always

[0:35:01] Voice 7: We're always trying to be good farmers and good land stewards.

[0:35:06] Voice 7: And just so that you know that, that we see what happens in these regulations.

[0:35:16] Voice 7: They're very prescriptive or there's an attempt to make them very prescriptive.

[0:35:20] Voice 7: And we have a broader approach to farming and we're all like very mixed farms.

[0:35:27] Voice 7: Everybody's doing something different.

[0:35:29] Voice 7: There's people with new ideas all the time.

[0:35:31] Voice 7: that we don't want to see hampered. And some of our old rules just don't fit today. And we see

[0:35:39] Voice 7: that some of the bylaws are prescriptive, they're urban, and they're being put in a rural setting

[0:35:46] Voice 7: driven by a very recreation, residential-based principle. So at this point, I'm not going to

[0:35:57] Voice 7: go into the details of our report it's there for you we've already talked to both trustees

[0:36:03] Voice 7: to answer any questions they may have and we're open to continue our work as you see fit and so

[0:36:11] Voice 7: at this point I'd like to ask George who very much was a vice chair even though he never had

[0:36:16] Voice 7: official title because he helped with a lot of the writing in the report and guiding us as well

[0:36:23] Voice 7: and he he's going to take on the other part of the discussion we have this morning all right please

[0:36:30] Voice 7: continue

[0:36:32] Trustee Patrick: george thank you barbara okay

[0:36:35] Voice 13: good morning i want to talk a little bit about

[0:36:42] Voice 13: farming on pander reinforcing some of what um what barb commented on and then i want to talk

[0:36:50] Voice 13: about sort of a what I'll say is a high level strong urging or recommendation to the trust

[0:36:57] Voice 13: and that is quite simply that Magic Lake is distinct from the rest of rural Pender and

[0:37:12] Voice 13: the application of regulation at a land use level that is following the same principles for both

[0:37:23] Voice 13: areas is contradictory and in conflict with itself. Farming here is, it's a

[0:37:33] Voice 13: cottage industry, it's small-scale, it's diverse, it's going to require, it

[0:37:41] Voice 13: requires cooperation, there's no infrastructure here whatsoever, it's very

[0:37:46] Voice 13: subsistence, it's not commercial. That doesn't mean it can't be. Unfortunately

[0:37:53] Voice 13: Fortunately, what we see today is large, large parcels of land largely being purchased as trophy properties and will ultimately be taken out of production or will become tenanted properties for the sake of agriculture,

[0:38:09] Voice 13: which in the long term does not really promote agriculture as it is considered in a more ecological, small scale sense.

[0:38:20] Voice 13: We're not talking about the Midwestern U.S. or the Canadian prairies.

[0:38:25] Voice 13: We're talking about an island that has about 800 acres of farmland.

[0:38:28] Voice 13: It's very different in that sense.

[0:38:32] Voice 13: The second thing I think is very important to understand is that agriculture, where the

[0:38:37] Voice 13: land is covered by the Agricultural Land Reserve, is subject to the Agricultural Land Use

[0:38:44] Voice 13: regulation. And notwithstanding that the ALUR allows for local government to provide additional

[0:38:53] Voice 13: restriction, I think the trust needs to be extremely cautious of applying more restriction

[0:39:02] Voice 13: than already exists in that regulation. Secondly, it would be unwise to consider that that regulation

[0:39:11] Voice 13: could be applied to non-ALR land that happens to be agricultural. Because again, the agricultural

[0:39:19] Voice 13: land use regulation, while farms must live under it if they're in the ALR, is really designed

[0:39:28] Voice 13: for the Fraser Valley and applied province-wide. The Fraser Valley and Kelowna and that sort of

[0:39:37] Voice 13: thing. But it's applied province-wide. And again, it has its frictions. But interestingly, the ALC

[0:39:44] Voice 13: which has oversight over what barb four and a half million hectares and do it with less

[0:39:51] Voice 13: staff and a smaller budget than the island's trust can do it for its area so there is to

[0:39:59] Voice 13: reinforce what barb says there's these multiple layers that we have but within land use the

[0:40:04] Voice 13: agricultural land use regulation is critical to understand but not to just say let's supply it

[0:40:10] Voice 13: across the piece. Our principal recommendation before we get into the staff report is that Magic

[0:40:21] Voice 13: Lake be zoned entirely separately from the rest of the island. Is there any reason that Magic Lake

[0:40:28] Voice 13: shouldn't have higher density than it already has? Now, somebody's going to say water and

[0:40:34] Voice 13: infrastructure. Those are technically solvable problems. If you want rural character on the

[0:40:42] Voice 13: the island maybe you have to increase density there and reduce density elsewhere how do you

[0:40:48] Voice 13: deal with subdivision policy when you allow subdivision in the rural area of the island

[0:40:55] Voice 13: and yet at the same time large tracts get sold out of agriculture into an international trophy trade

[0:41:01] Voice 13: those are those are challenging policy issues and and i think our concern is what we see in the

[0:41:11] Voice 13: a staff report which is entirely understandable because that's what is required of staff

[0:41:21] Voice 13: is an attempt to add additional prescriptive rules and regulations to land use rather than

[0:41:31] Voice 13: looking at the broader principles of how you encourage and enable agricultural activity

[0:41:37] Voice 13: which by nature on this island has to be diverse it has to consider things

[0:41:43] Voice 13: openly and encouragingly such as agritourism such as allowing for worker housing such as allowing

[0:41:54] Voice 13: home industries to exist because many farms survive on their off-farm income these are all

[0:42:01] Voice 13: things that need to be considered in here and so that's where i'd like to stop it's really important

[0:42:10] Voice 13: important really really important to separate the policies and principles that you're applying to

[0:42:18] Voice 13: land use planning in magic lake from the rest of the island that we think is critical we don't

[0:42:26] Voice 13: think it's necessarily constrained simply by whether it's in a waterworks area or not which

[0:42:32] Voice 13: may be from a planning perspective clinically clean and and nice but we don't think that

[0:42:39] Voice 13: necessarily describes it because another part of rural character is the villages that existed here

[0:42:46] Voice 13: over time. Think about it, Port Washington and Hope Bay, there's two villages. Now, yes, they've lost

[0:42:53] Voice 13: their economic center, like most parts of the world, but the village still exists, just as we

[0:43:00] Voice 13: heard earlier about Neptune Estates attempting to form a community group and it becomes a village.

[0:43:05] Voice 13: but magic lake is distinctly different as we all know it was the catalyst that started the

[0:43:12] Voice 13: island's trust in the first place so i understand at and i wasn't aware we were going to go through

[0:43:20] Voice 13: the staff report we can do so but i think it will lose sight of the swamp we came to drain

[0:43:29] Voice 13: and that is how do we encourage and enable agriculture in an already challenged economic

[0:43:34] Voice 13: economic environment? And do we allow land use regulation straightjacketed into a number of

[0:43:42] Voice 13: things that are out of scope? Do we straightjacket it into that for the purposes of administrative

[0:43:47] Voice 13: efficiency? And we think not. We think this needs to evolve over time, and we need to look at these

[0:43:54] Voice 13: things carefully. And when we enact new regulations, and I just take you to something here,

[0:44:01] Voice 13: very simply to start and then I'll throw it back to you trustees. Where's the staff report here

[0:44:08] Voice 13: that I think is indicative of the concern we have?

[0:44:13] Trustee Patrick: It's on page 88 of the agenda package if you've

[0:44:16] Trustee Patrick: got that. I've

[0:44:17] Voice 13: got it I've got it in a different form in a different document here Laura but it's

[0:44:21] Voice 13: it's just and I just use this for illustration in number one we think that wording such as

[0:44:31] Voice 13: only be recommended if there are specific agricultural uses on properties outside a

[0:44:40] Voice 13: water system that would be beneficial. Well, how do we define beneficial? How do we define specific

[0:44:47] Voice 13: and certain agricultural activities? We're drilling down into specifics. What's really

[0:44:52] Voice 13: really important is that you get a shift in thinking that allows two separate approaches

[0:45:02] Voice 13: to planning. If you really want to have all the trees in the museum outside Magic Lake and you

[0:45:09] Voice 13: can pay us all a dollar to come to see them. Over to you, trustees.

[0:45:15] Trustee Patrick: Thank you, George.

[0:45:18] Trustee Patrick: Trustees, how would you like to carry this conversation forward?

[0:45:23] Trustee McConchie: I appreciate that,

[0:45:24] Trustee McConchie: that Joni Mitchell reference, George, thanks. And thanks for that summation. And thank you,

[0:45:30] Trustee McConchie: of course, Barb, for your work on this. You capture a lot of the important issues very well.

[0:45:37] Trustee McConchie: And I really appreciate your guys' work on this. So here, the first question. Okay. So I have a

[0:45:42] Trustee McConchie: couple of questions. It might involve staff, and then I would like to provide some direction. Then

[0:45:45] Trustee McConchie: I have a question to the AAPC. So if that's okay, Trustee Morrison, or did you want to start?

[0:45:49] Trustee McConchie: okay okay so the first one is uh i totally agree with the idea of zoning magic lake into a different

[0:45:56] Trustee McConchie: uh area it's it's a total and it's impacting so what what the issue i get from what i understand

[0:46:01] Trustee McConchie: the issue is like what the the rules for farming are are across north pender are all the same

[0:46:07] Trustee McConchie: relatively the same and magic lake is its own specific area and and it doesn't apply to these

[0:46:13] Trustee McConchie: 10 acre lots right so that's totally logical i'm wondering um robert um if if there's a if this

[0:46:20] Trustee McConchie: would be a challenging like we'd have to add this to the project lists or whatever like what is the

[0:46:24] Trustee McConchie: bureaucratic process we have to go through in order to attain different zoning for magic lake

[0:46:29] Voice 3: well that that would be part of the lub review that would be the scope the scope of this project

[0:46:34] Voice 3: for sure i mean that's that's what one of the things you could potentially be looking at is

[0:46:38] Voice 3: different regulations for agricultural uses within magic lake versus the rural residential

[0:46:46] Voice 3: lots outside of magic lake okay so i think that's what

[0:46:48] Voice 3: that's the that's what you're really talking

[0:46:50] Voice 3: about is because rural lots permit agriculture right i mean there may

[0:46:55] Voice 3: be other changes that you

[0:46:56] Voice 3: want to look at for the rural zoned areas but it's the rural residential zone right um that applies

[0:47:02] Voice 3: both magic lake trincomalee razor point and a number of areas that aren't in those water systems

[0:47:10] Voice 3: okay

[0:47:12] Trustee McConchie: so i'm not i just i think we can just i'm wondering if we can just proceed on this issue

[0:47:16] Trustee McConchie: like right now do what do we have to draft a motion as an l as an ltc uh to this direct staff

[0:47:23] Trustee McConchie: to begin drafting bylaws to um to proceed with this i have

[0:47:29] Trustee Morrison: a question too about this go ahead

[0:47:32] Voice 3: I think what we're looking for is some direction from the LTC, you know, through, for all of the recommendations that are in the table, whether

[0:47:42] Voice 1: you want to go through

[0:47:43] Voice 3: them at this meeting, there's not a lot of time, but if you want to treat it as, you know, have a separate special meeting to, to give more specific direction, or if you could say as an LTC, we're fine with, we're fine with most of the other things, but we just really want to focus on this,

[0:47:58] Voice 3: um this rural residential separating the rural residential zones um and i think the comment about

[0:48:05] Voice 3: in the staff comments about um this is recommended if there's specific agricultural uses or

[0:48:13] Voice 3: regulations that would apply like what would be the difference between the two the two new zones

[0:48:19] Voice 3: if you like what's the distinction right

[0:48:23] Trustee McConchie: so we so we have to have a separate conversation about like

[0:48:25] Trustee McConchie: Like what, I guess what I'm understanding is, so you're saying we should, whether you

[0:48:29] Trustee McConchie: take it on piecemeal, each little issue, or you do it in one broad meeting where you basically

[0:48:34] Trustee McConchie: come up with the direction to the, for staff.

[0:48:37] Trustee Morrison: I'm going to throw a thought in here.

[0:48:39] Trustee Morrison: So I don't want to talk about process right now.

[0:48:42] Trustee Morrison: I just want to talk about this.

[0:48:43] Trustee Morrison: So I just want to kind of go through this and like, and if we find like we're radically

[0:48:48] Trustee Morrison: running out of time, then we can talk about process and table something.

[0:48:52] Trustee Morrison: thing but i'd then i'd like to just use our time together to literally just talk through this right

[0:48:56] Trustee Morrison: now and figure

[0:48:57] Trustee Morrison: out if we can just provide direction or not because i'm getting meeting to death and so

[0:49:03] Trustee Morrison: i just need to like act on and give the direction to robert that they're seeking and like so just

[0:49:09] Trustee Morrison: let's not worry about other special meetings right now and just see if we can get make some

[0:49:13] Trustee Morrison: progress on this and we'd find maybe laura like give us half an hour say we

[0:49:17] Trustee Patrick: have 35 minutes on

[0:49:18] Trustee Patrick: on the agenda more so i mean we have we have 35 more minutes within the

[0:49:23] Trustee Morrison: schedule be concise and

[0:49:24] Trustee Morrison: try and go through each point and see how far we get in 35 minutes

[0:49:27] Trustee Morrison: fantastic um so that would be

[0:49:29] Trustee Morrison: my suggestion um so the question that i have about number one is actually a sort of to the

[0:49:37] Trustee Morrison: point that's been made is like what is the difference between um rural and rural residential

[0:49:43] Trustee Morrison: with application to agriculture and maybe this is just like somehow I'm missing a point here but

[0:49:49] Trustee Morrison: like as we think about the agricultural bylaws like my thought was that some of those are applying

[0:49:57] Trustee Morrison: more strictly to the agricultural end which I see more clearly how how very particular things in

[0:50:03] Trustee Morrison: what what all of the agricultural suggestions are applying I guess where I'm getting confused is

[0:50:08] Trustee Morrison: is where does it overlap with rural

[0:50:11] Trustee Morrison: for those applications of different aspects of the bylaws?

[0:50:15] Trustee Morrison: So for example, if there is something about farm stands,

[0:50:23] Trustee Morrison: let's talk about farm stands.

[0:50:24] Trustee Morrison: Okay, so if there's something about farm stands,

[0:50:26] Trustee Morrison: would they apply only to rural and not to rural residential?

[0:50:29] Trustee Morrison: Would that be like how we're differentiating

[0:50:30] Trustee Morrison: where rules apply?

[0:50:32] Trustee Morrison: George?

[0:50:34] Voice 13: Farm

[0:50:35] Voice 7: stands are allowed everywhere.

[0:50:37] Voice 7: everywhere okay um where with rural um at one time a person could not farm on the rural land

[0:50:45] Voice 7: unless they had a house on it and there was somebody on wash that had two rural pieces next

[0:50:51] Voice 7: to each other he had a house on one piece he wanted to put the barn on the other piece and

[0:50:57] Voice 7: he wasn't allowed to because he didn't have a house there first and uh so there was a lot of

[0:51:04] Voice 7: work done and now it's my belief that people on rural land can now farm on it without putting a

[0:51:10] Voice 7: house on it first while there are people in the same situation with rural residential on port wash

[0:51:17] Voice 7: or up in the outer areas outside of magic lake that are not allowed to farm on it unless they

[0:51:25] Voice 7: have a house and there are some people who have the same situation and it doesn't make sense and

[0:51:31] Voice 7: And they've been farming on it 20 years, not realizing they weren't allowed to.

[0:51:36] Voice 7: Right.

[0:51:36] Trustee Morrison: Thanks for that clarification.

[0:51:38] Voice 7: Yeah, that's what the issue is.

[0:51:40] Trustee Morrison: Okay. That's helpful to remember. Thank you.

[0:51:45] Voice 13: Perhaps when we think about this, why are there three zones?

[0:51:51] Voice 13: Why are rural ag and rural residential outside of Magic Lake three zones?

[0:51:57] Voice 13: The agricultural land specifically is already covered by the ALUR.

[0:52:02] Voice 13: are I think you know that's the sort of question Deb that I think could be asked here not the other

[0:52:13] Voice 13: way around not by saying well what what do we want to permit or what can't we permit or what's

[0:52:18] Voice 13: different between rural and rural residential maybe if we switch that around and we say why

[0:52:23] Voice 13: do we need those three zones well

[0:52:25] Trustee Morrison: that's kind of my question to her is like to me the the lands

[0:52:29] Trustee Morrison: that are in our ag zoning do seem from our conversation they are like mapped onto the ALR

[0:52:34] Trustee Morrison: mostly and maybe they should just be like like that's how we should think about the egg zone

[0:52:40] Trustee Morrison: land and then if we had um and then the the alr regulations just apply to those and we don't have

[0:52:49] Trustee Morrison: to like over regulate other things inside that potentially we can have that conversation and

[0:52:54] Trustee Morrison: then the like remainder of the island outside magic lake um has more universal zoning and i

[0:53:01] Trustee Morrison: i know there are some differences about density related to rural versus rural residential like

[0:53:05] Trustee Morrison: there's some other subtleties but um yeah it does make me realize that you know we should really

[0:53:13] Trustee Morrison: consider the magic lake separation so i'm i'm not against that because i can barb that was a really

[0:53:19] Trustee Morrison: helpful example because i forgot about that one that was that was the issue all

[0:53:23] Voice 9: right

[0:53:25] Trustee Morrison: so i'm happy

[0:53:27] Trustee Morrison: to and i and i think we need to be clear also robert for you like what's what's the kind of

[0:53:32] Trustee Morrison: direction that you need clearly noted from us yeah

[0:53:38] Voice 3: the direction is basically just what you're

[0:53:40] Voice 3: talking about what you've been discussing is what's what's what is the intent what are you

[0:53:44] Voice 3: seeking to do um through this discussion are you seeking to just is the is the issue you're trying

[0:53:51] Voice 3: to address the fact that you can't have agriculture as a principal use on rural residential lots

[0:53:59] Voice 3: which is the

[0:54:00] Voice 3: which is the the issue that that comes up i mean there's the

[0:54:03] Voice 3: the rural residential

[0:54:04] Voice 3: zoning has other regulations like you alluded to the big one is you know there's a big difference

[0:54:08] Voice 3: between the subdivision potential for rural and residential right um and then there's setbacks

[0:54:13] Voice 3: and so on that may that may be different for those um those two zones um but really it seems

[0:54:20] Voice 3: like the actual issue is in rural residential lots some of the larger ones um outside of magic lake

[0:54:29] Voice 3: and i would ask you to turn your mind to trincomalee and razor point as well

[0:54:34] Voice 3: um that um

[0:54:37] Voice 3: what are the implications of agriculture being permitted as outright permitted use

[0:54:42] Voice 3: are there any that you're concerned about

[0:54:44] Trustee Morrison: because

[0:54:45] Voice 3: they are small they

[0:54:46] Voice 3: do tend to be smaller lots

[0:54:47] Voice 3: yeah

[0:54:47] Trustee Morrison: for for magic lake and trincomalee i have to think about razor point but for a magic lake

[0:54:52] Trustee Morrison: and trincomalee i think my biggest concern is because of the lot size i wouldn't want to

[0:54:58] Trustee Morrison: necessarily wholeheartedly say you can do agriculture of any kind anywhere because there

[0:55:03] Trustee Morrison: there are some serious neighbor related issues we could instigate with that that I don't necessarily

[0:55:08] Trustee Morrison: want to get into um but um having said that I think if you're outside those areas

[0:55:17] Trustee Morrison: it I mean we live on a rural island I think it's fair game to to be doing resident or agricultural

[0:55:24] Trustee Morrison: cultural activity in many of these places I think my concern would be I don't necessarily want to

[0:55:32] Trustee Morrison: instigate tree cutting for instance for agricultural purposes in areas that like

[0:55:38] Trustee Morrison: I don't know what that would look like of course we don't necessarily control tree cutting right

[0:55:43] Trustee Morrison: now but I wouldn't want to like suddenly instigate that somehow so that would be one of my concerns

[0:55:48] Trustee Morrison: concerns um i don't think that's necessarily going to happen related to this issue because

[0:55:54] Trustee Morrison: of what george says like we're not exactly you know agricultural center off razor valley so um

[0:55:59] Trustee Morrison: that would be my biggest concern and i actually i think that barb's point is well placed i want

[0:56:06] Trustee Morrison: to make sure that we're actually not having to build a building on a property to be able to farm

[0:56:11] Trustee Morrison: it like that just seems crazy um can we just talk briefly about the razor point area because that's

[0:56:25] Trustee Morrison: a little more complicated there I don't actually even though I know there is quite dense development

[0:56:33] Trustee Morrison: over there I don't want to encourage that any further than it is because that road going out

[0:56:40] Trustee Morrison: to that area is super problematic from a fire hazard perspective and it can't really be changed

[0:56:46] Trustee Morrison: and I don't think anybody really wants to change it radically so I don't know that I want to

[0:56:53] Trustee Morrison: to restrict agriculture out there necessarily either um I don't know thoughts about that I'm

[0:57:00] Trustee Morrison: happy to say that number one we have like a rural residential area that's like I don't know how to

[0:57:07] Trustee Morrison: name it like rural residential high density or village or I don't know what it would be like

[0:57:13] Trustee Morrison: that is sort of Trincomalee and Magic Lake um but I don't necessarily want to name that for

[0:57:18] Trustee Morrison: I raise your point.

[0:57:26] Voice 13: I'm wondering, Deb, how we should proceed here with the time that's available

[0:57:30] Voice 13: to us. I mean, we feel, I think, that some of these things require some thought and discussion,

[0:57:40] Voice 13: and you touched on one here a moment ago about scale. Now, let's say we have a

[0:57:49] Voice 13: a two hectare piece of property whether it's zoned rural rural residential or ag

[0:57:59] Voice 13: doesn't matter right now it's two hectares and the example I shared with one of you was

[0:58:06] Voice 13: let's say somebody got it into their head that they wanted to become the supplier of eggs to the

[0:58:11] Voice 13: the island. Well, on two hectares of land, you could put in easily a 3,000-hen aviary system,

[0:58:23] Voice 13: which would take less than a quarter of that piece of property. Now, for somebody living next door to

[0:58:31] Voice 13: that two-hectare piece of property, they might have an opinion about 3,000 laying hens running

[0:58:37] Voice 13: running around on pasture outside their apiary pens.

[0:58:40] Voice 13: These are new modern systems for egg laying.

[0:58:44] Voice 13: They're not battery cages.

[0:58:45] Voice 13: This is all nesting systems in that.

[0:58:50] Voice 13: It's going to be a little economically challenged

[0:58:52] Voice 13: on this island by virtue of the transport costs

[0:58:55] Voice 13: to get feed here.

[0:58:56] Voice 9: But

[0:58:57] Voice 13: that's going to be offset somewhat

[0:58:59] Voice 13: by the absence of necessity to truck the product

[0:59:04] Voice 13: off the island if you can capture the island market.

[0:59:06] Voice 13: market. And so, you know, there's something there that bears some economic analysis by somebody

[0:59:14] Voice 13: someday who thinks, you know, I'd like to do something here. It doesn't take much land,

[0:59:18] Voice 13: but it could cause significant neighborly impact. And so, you know, how do we address this notion

[0:59:29] Voice 13: of scale versus having a much more delineated prescriptive regulation that says we will

[0:59:39] Voice 13: identify which activities will occur. Instead of trying to identify a priori what those situations

[0:59:48] Voice 13: are, I think it bears looking at, and this is where principle comes in as opposed to prescription,

[0:59:55] Voice 13: And I understand Robert and Kim's problem.

[0:59:58] Voice 13: Then it involves discretion.

[1:00:00] Voice 13: and as soon as it involves discretion you get these massive public furors that exist here over

[1:00:07] Voice 13: people's different interpretations of something and so it's easier to be much more prescriptive

[1:00:13] Voice 13: but unfortunately that could constrain and disable activity so for me and I know Robert's

[1:00:24] Voice 13: looking for something more specific because he has to develop work plans for people and they

[1:00:27] Voice 13: have to know what to do but i think i think this whole issue of scale bears a lot more discussion

[1:00:32] Voice 13: as we think about this because if you now take let's make everything outside magic lake with

[1:00:38] Voice 13: the exception of a couple of areas you've mentioned rural okay it's all rural now how are we going to

[1:00:47] Voice 13: manage neighborly impact in the higher dense areas versus the less dense areas how are we

[1:00:53] Voice 13: going to manage that how are we going to manage uh resource um resource impact being it being at

[1:01:01] Voice 13: water be it vegetation how are we going to manage that um you know and how do we apply that scale

[1:01:09] Voice 13: as opposed to something that's black and white within these things and and and i'm sure that you

[1:01:13] Voice 13: know the people who study planning have ways and ways and doing this but what what our concern with

[1:01:19] Voice 13: with the staff report is that it's and it's totally understandable and it's good response

[1:01:25] Voice 13: in this sense is that it is tempting to find ways within the current straitjacket

[1:01:31] Voice 13: to do a do a tweak here and a tweak there and an accommodation here and accommodation there

[1:01:38] Voice 13: but ultimately it's not it's it's what we've done is we've moved the deck chairs around we

[1:01:43] Voice 13: haven't really changed the scenery so

[1:01:46] Trustee Morrison: robert i guess the question for you then it would be like

[1:01:49] Trustee Morrison: like um what if we if we took that perspective of having sort of a i'm almost wondering what

[1:02:03] Trustee Morrison: it is without causing an additional giant bureaucracy for everybody but like what would

[1:02:08] Trustee Morrison: it be if we actually said like you can do farming activity in any of these areas you know and name

[1:02:15] Trustee Morrison: them um if the farming activity is like um you know these types of farming activity which we

[1:02:24] Trustee Morrison: know to be relatively low impact like growing beans or whatever like are you just go ahead do

[1:02:30] Trustee Morrison: them anywhere you like but like these other types of farming activity we're saying that you could

[1:02:34] Trustee Morrison: potentially do them but you need to have a conversation you need to come in and have a

[1:02:38] Trustee Morrison: conversation so that allows some flexibility but it also helps sort of manage some of the

[1:02:43] Trustee Morrison: there is some discretion like built into the system to be able to have that i i don't know

[1:02:49] Trustee Morrison: if that's a way forward for that oh

[1:02:52] Voice 3: yeah first of all the most impacts from agriculture in my

[1:02:56] Voice 3: experience don't come from horticulture don't come from growing it's keeping of animals right

[1:02:59] Voice 18: it's animals

[1:03:00] Voice 3: yeah animals that cause the neighbor most of the neighbor complaints unless someone's

[1:03:04] Voice 3: doing you know spraying and spraying of pesticides and so on um so i mean the the typical way to

[1:03:11] Voice 3: man try and manage those impacts those externalities right so there's something

[1:03:16] Voice 3: that's being produced that is a benefit to that property owner but it's causing negative impacts

[1:03:21] Voice 3: on adjacent property owners that's an externality negative externality anyway um is to uh let's say

[1:03:28] Voice 3: limit it that use so that it can't occur on small lots under a certain size um that doesn't

[1:03:35] Voice 3: necessarily address the um number of lots that are around that property right you could have a

[1:03:43] Voice 3: large enough property to have the use but there's a bunch of small lots around it um the other is

[1:03:49] Voice 3: setbacks right you set that to be how the activity has to be set back a certain distance from lot

[1:03:54] Voice 3: lines to try and mitigate those negative impacts um in terms of um discretionary uses so a bylaw

[1:04:02] Voice 3: has to be ascertainable, right? Someone reading that bylaw and making appropriate inquiries has

[1:04:07] Voice 3: to be able to determine, yes, I can do this use or no, I can't do this activity. To have

[1:04:13] Voice 3: discretionary approval, you know, there has to be a process that has to be followed, something like

[1:04:18] Voice 3: a variance or a temporary use permit or a rezoning even. Oh,

[1:04:21] Trustee Morrison: that's actually an interesting thing

[1:04:23] Trustee Morrison: because I was thinking, that's what I was thinking is under the temporary use permits for STVRs,

[1:04:27] Trustee Morrison: we have a bunch of discretionary criteria um that we can uh apply to stvrs like asking for

[1:04:34] Trustee Morrison: different kinds of

[1:04:35] Voice 3: things conditions yeah you can put conditions

[1:04:37] Voice 3: on the permit um and there's a

[1:04:39] Voice 3: process that

[1:04:40] Trustee Morrison: has to be

[1:04:40] Voice 3: gone through um so yeah it's an option but um but do you want to be

[1:04:49] Voice 3: issuing temporary use permits for chickens i don't know yeah

[1:04:53] Trustee Morrison: i mean is that really the only

[1:04:55] Trustee Morrison: tool that we have in our toolbox as land use planners to be able to get that kind of

[1:04:59] Trustee Morrison: like local conversation um in play without being prescriptive about xyz yeah

[1:05:07] Voice 3: you don't there's no

[1:05:08] Voice 3: ability to delegate some um discretionary approval to an official like what's the criteria you know

[1:05:16] Voice 3: it's that's just um that's not how how legislation works right the law what

[1:05:24] Trustee Morrison: about variances like

[1:05:26] Trustee Morrison: like if we have variances and the criteria is is set out in ways that yeah i don't know i just i

[1:05:34] Trustee Morrison: variances

[1:05:35] Voice 3: are for citing size variances are for citing and size of structures so

[1:05:40] Voice 3: yeah you could have big setbacks for buildings or structures associated with animals and then

[1:05:47] Voice 3: someone could apply for variance for it but um yeah or you could just say yeah you know we're

[1:05:54] Voice 3: on larger lots over an acre or whatever in the rural residential zone outside of you know there's

[1:06:01] Voice 3: not going to be a rural residential one and rural residential two zones there used to be many years

[1:06:05] Voice 3: ago and a rural residential one and rural residential two rural residential two the

[1:06:11] Voice 3: lands outside of the of Trincomalee and Magic Lake you can have agriculture as a principal

[1:06:16] Voice 3: permitted use there including the keeping of animals there's some setbacks associated with

[1:06:20] Voice 3: that and maybe there's a minimum lot size to have some of those activities then

[1:06:29] Voice 7: barbara can i say

[1:06:30] Voice 7: something uh there's been communities throughout bc like uh suburb suburban communities like magic

[1:06:38] Voice 7: lake say that have wanted to bring chickens in a lot of people have an interest in chickens and

[1:06:45] Voice 7: they've had projects where they uh you know did surveys they involved people that wanted to have

[1:06:53] Voice 7: chickens they came up with sets of guidelines for people educational materials i think a lot of

[1:06:59] Voice 7: people want to do this want to learn how to do this too if they're new to it and they want to

[1:07:05] Voice 7: do it right and uh if you take that approach i know some municipalities have been very successful

[1:07:11] Voice 7: some they've they've had to you know look into if people are new to this they may like there was a

[1:07:21] Voice 7: flurry of chickens a few years ago and a bunch of roosters got dropped off at the new to you

[1:07:26] Voice 7: because i think people hatched them out and then ended up with roosters in magic lake which were a

[1:07:31] Voice 7: big no-no and then dropped them off at the new to you which ended up over at mcdonald's farm in the

[1:07:37] Trustee Morrison: trees so

[1:07:38] Voice 7: pender so you know education is really helpful um that's what the farmers institute is

[1:07:45] Voice 7: there for there's lots of different farm and food groups on the island now that i think would love

[1:07:49] Voice 7: to help people if and um taking more of uh you know involving your neighbors too i know people

[1:07:57] Voice 7: who've had chickens in magic lake successfully because they talked to all the neighbors first

[1:08:02] Voice 7: and they put it close to their garden they only had a few hens you know like i went over and helped

[1:08:08] Voice 7: them sort their chickens when only half of them would lay i picked out which ones weren't laying

[1:08:13] Voice 7: anymore and I think we need to work as a community if people want to do these activities we want them

[1:08:20] Voice 7: to be helped to do and

[1:08:22] Trustee Morrison: and I'm totally with you Barbara the challenge that we have in this context

[1:08:26] Trustee Morrison: is like one of those things is in the rule book and one of those things is like our community

[1:08:31] Trustee Morrison: practice which is you know the challenge I think that we're facing here and that that you're trying

[1:08:36] Trustee Morrison: to name Robert like of like which things do we have to just lay out versus which things do we

[1:08:42] Trustee Morrison: leave open and you know given the recent helicopter issues like you know how open do you leave them

[1:08:49] Trustee Morrison: before you have a like reactionary issue that you're going to have to deal with in some way

[1:08:53] Trustee Morrison: i

[1:08:54] Voice 7: was wondering were there ever any complaints about chickens in magic lake by the bylaw i don't

[1:09:00] Voice 7: know yeah in the

[1:09:03] Voice 7: past there have

[1:09:03] Voice 3: been yeah not a lot but occasionally yeah

[1:09:09] Voice 13: i'd like to just maybe

[1:09:11] Voice 13: Maybe move to another area here, Deb and Ben and Laura, you know if since we're going through the, the staff report a little bit I want to highlight two areas next one is farm worker housing, and the other is agritourism.

[1:09:28] Voice 13: You know these are, these are two areas that can be very supportive of agriculture or can be quite restrictive of agriculture.

[1:09:35] Voice 13: agriculture. On the farm worker housing side, if you're in the ALR, there's already rules and

[1:09:47] Voice 13: regulations and so be it. But if you're outside the ALR, I think what our concern would be is

[1:09:53] Voice 13: the blanket application of the agricultural land use regulation might not be the best way to do it

[1:09:59] Voice 13: because it's more oriented towards large scale farming. All you need to do is go buy one of the

[1:10:04] Voice 13: large greenhouses in the lower Fraser Valley, and look at the mobile home parks they've built

[1:10:08] Voice 13: around there, you know, the bunkhouse style. They're quite nice, but that's what they're

[1:10:13] Voice 13: talking about more than what you're talking about here. So again, I don't think we have a specific

[1:10:20] Voice 13: on this, but it needs to be a little bit more, what should I say, welcoming than, you know,

[1:10:33] Voice 13: will permit one farm worker dwelling subject to approval from the ALC well that doesn't work

[1:10:38] Voice 13: within outside the ALR and and it's only permitted within lands on the ALR well we've been talking

[1:10:46] Voice 13: again about this rural residential dilemma we have or contradiction and I know that this starts

[1:10:54] Voice 13: to shift into the area of housing as opposed to farming because what happens when that that

[1:11:02] Voice 13: that seasonal residence isn't being used by a farm worker, and there's a dozen families on

[1:11:08] Voice 13: the island who can't find a place to live. Well, we all know what happens, somebody moves into it.

[1:11:13] Voice 13: And then that's against the rules. The other area is agritourism, because, again, most farms here,

[1:11:23] Voice 13: there's nobody doing this at the moment to speak of, I don't think. It's something that is for

[1:11:28] Voice 13: potential rather than for what actually exists. But if you look at, you know, some of the farming

[1:11:36] Voice 13: activities, agritourism is an important form of supplemental income. So if somebody, whether

[1:11:42] Voice 13: you're a winery, a cidery, vegetable and fruit producer as we are, or a mixed farm focused more

[1:11:50] Voice 13: on livestock as Barb is, somebody may see the opportunity to tie it in with agritourism.

[1:11:56] Voice 13: And so, again, I think we looked at the agricultural land use regulations there. I think in this case, that might be a bit of a guide, but you're still going to run into the scale problem.

[1:12:07] Voice 13: Because now you have the two hectare property that's in the rural residential area that says, I want to have 10 tents on my property and the neighbors don't like it.

[1:12:16] Voice 13: Because it's small, but you go across the road and somebody's got 15 hectares and nobody can see them and it's not a problem.

[1:12:22] Voice 13: so again you get into the scale problem but i did want to draw the attention to those two areas

[1:12:30] Voice 13: that would be important for again you wonder sometimes if if it amounts to anything because

[1:12:40] Voice 13: it doesn't exist today and and because of land prices the potential for it to exist in the future

[1:12:46] Voice 13: may be less than it is today the point is can we set up something that will encourage that rather

[1:12:52] Voice 13: rather than just say you can't do it.

[1:12:54] Voice 13: And I think in those two cases,

[1:12:58] Voice 13: you're always, to Robert's point,

[1:13:01] Voice 13: you're going to need a process for some of these things.

[1:13:04] Voice 13: It's just, that's just the way it is.

[1:13:06] Voice 13: We're not going to avoid processes.

[1:13:08] Voice 13: We're not going to avoid having regulation,

[1:13:11] Voice 13: but can that regulation somehow be embracing?

[1:13:15] Voice 13: And those are two areas that I think

[1:13:16] Voice 13: would be helpful to agriculture today.

[1:13:18] Voice 13: day um the third area that was very important to the committee was the area of farm retail sales

[1:13:27] Voice 13: and the real issue here is not the size of the building that's on there or so on and so forth

[1:13:34] Voice 13: the real issue is that um people need to be able to sell cooperatively and and we simply provided

[1:13:46] Voice 13: I provided a bit of background and I'm sure staff has done more research on this.

[1:13:49] Voice 13: You know, there is rules and regulations for that through the Agricultural Land Use Regulation and cooperatives and associations and those sorts of things.

[1:13:59] Voice 13: But once you get outside the ALR, that doesn't exist, that coverage.

[1:14:04] Voice 13: coverage so here again and again maybe it's a hypothetical situation but somebody who maybe

[1:14:10] Voice 13: owns a piece of property in a rural residential area or in a rural area but also lives in a rural

[1:14:18] Voice 13: residential area and they decide to put their farm stand on the rural residential

[1:14:22] Voice 13: and then and they're getting product from four or five different places that they're selling there

[1:14:28] Voice 13: now it's becoming a store when does that farm stand change to being a store I mean these are

[1:14:35] Voice 13: not easy questions and and and I think if we if we're going to drill down into the actual drafting

[1:14:41] Voice 13: of bylaws and those sorts of things at this stage we've got to have more discussion around what the

[1:14:46] Voice 13: shades of gray are around these things and

[1:14:49] Trustee Morrison: I think if my understanding is correct Robert like the

[1:14:52] Trustee Morrison: the goal for our conversation today is really to try and figure out like what some of those

[1:14:58] Trustee Morrison: directions could be so that we could start to put some draft versions on the table that are then

[1:15:03] Trustee Morrison: more concrete to talk around. And kind of not just to react to, because I know that's not always

[1:15:10] Trustee Morrison: helpful, but it can be a little bit clearer to have something in front that we understand can

[1:15:16] Trustee Morrison: can be radically changed and and messed with um and to the points that have been raised i actually

[1:15:23] Trustee Morrison: think that maybe one of the ways through this is to have that rural residential zone that's outside

[1:15:30] Trustee Morrison: magic lake and trincomalee that there are bigger restrictions on like there are right now but that

[1:15:38] Trustee Morrison: um allow for variances because i think those variance conversations and and so variances are

[1:15:46] Trustee Morrison: only for size and use is that right robert

[1:15:48] Voice 3: setbacks like citing in size so an example would

[1:15:52] Voice 3: be you know say you create a rr2 zone or a residential two zone for those areas outside

[1:15:58] Voice 3: magic lake and trincomalee and you allow agriculture as an outright permitted use there

[1:16:03] Voice 3: but you set some setbacks for example for buildings and structures for animals for example

[1:16:13] Voice 3: and then someone could apply for variance to reduce that setback.

[1:16:18] Trustee Morrison: So it wouldn't necessarily

[1:16:20] Trustee Morrison: allow us the ability to say on those areas that are tighter like in terms of space if there was

[1:16:28] Trustee Morrison: was a good use to shift that it would have to be rezoned somehow or it would have to be a

[1:16:33] Trustee Morrison: temporary use permit or it would have to be some other mechanism or just couldn't be well it'd be

[1:16:38] Trustee Patrick: through your setbacks if your smaller areas if you have a setback in a smaller area but then they

[1:16:44] Trustee Patrick: have a use that they could they could yeah

[1:16:47] Trustee Morrison: i'm not talking about setbacks per se i'm talking about

[1:16:49] Trustee Morrison: like putting in farm putting up farm sales on a piece of for a residential because of the way

[1:16:55] Trustee Morrison: that land is kind of chunked up around here i can see the situation too yeah

[1:16:58] Voice 3: so farm sales other

[1:16:59] Voice 3: than selling something grown on the property is the question or the issue and yeah if someone it's

[1:17:06] Voice 3: it's if someone wanted to sell produce you could you could change the let me put it this way you

[1:17:14] Voice 3: could change the zoning regulations so that um farm retail sales are grown on north pender island

[1:17:22] Voice 3: or north and south bender island something like that

[1:17:24] Voice 3: um you know then it would increase the

[1:17:31] Voice 3: economics or improve the economics of farming

[1:17:35] Trustee Morrison: and you're

[1:17:37] Voice 3: going to get you know you're going

[1:17:38] Voice 3: to get small store stores basically and i don't know that's an issue or

[1:17:44] Voice 3: not well

[1:17:45] Trustee Morrison: but that could

[1:17:45] Trustee Morrison: be a community conversation at the moment like that that happens it just means that it doesn't

[1:17:49] Trustee Morrison: eliminate that option it allows for a pathway forward for it okay okay uh where are we at on

[1:17:56] Trustee Morrison: time laura we

[1:17:58] Trustee Patrick: are at 10 18 we have till 10 25 assigned for this uh this time ben do you have

[1:18:04] Trustee Patrick: other thoughts or questions or reflections well

[1:18:08] Trustee McConchie: i mean yeah i tried to start the conversation and

[1:18:10] Trustee McConchie: then you you suggested that we are process and you're over meeting trustee morrison so but i i'm

[1:18:16] Trustee McConchie: I'm confused. We just had a wide ranging circular conversation where I'm confused of what we're

[1:18:21] Trustee McConchie: trying to get done here. Like what the AAPC said is the North Pender Islands Trust bylaws create

[1:18:27] Trustee McConchie: barriers to agriculture and food security on the island. Okay, that's a huge comment. So that tells

[1:18:34] Trustee McConchie: me the farmers need help. So they're saying to us in this report, for example, you know, divide

[1:18:40] Trustee McConchie: rural number 1.2, which is probably the most important points, right? Divide the rural

[1:18:44] Trustee McConchie: rural residential zones into two zones each.

[1:18:46] Trustee McConchie: Then I'm hearing from George, he's saying,

[1:18:48] Trustee McConchie: we need to discuss what the scale of that,

[1:18:52] Trustee McConchie: if we're gonna allow for agricultural practices

[1:18:56] Trustee McConchie: to be regulations to be lifted,

[1:19:01] Trustee McConchie: how do we do that on a scale?

[1:19:03] Trustee McConchie: So people on a one acre farm

[1:19:04] Trustee McConchie: don't turn into a giant chicken factory, right?

[1:19:07] Trustee McConchie: So I'm wondering if the AAPC needs to go get back together

[1:19:10] Trustee McConchie: to discuss that issue of scale.

[1:19:12] Trustee McConchie: fail the next issue would be so and then also on point number one include in bylaw amendments so

[1:19:17] Trustee McConchie: rather than maybe that goes to yes yes it should be included in the bylaw amendments i don't know

[1:19:22] Trustee McConchie: how direct that can be to you robert uh then number two agriculture be permitted encouraged

[1:19:27] Trustee McConchie: and promoted in all zones it says include in bylaw amendments staff have said maybe i'm saying yes

[1:19:32] Trustee McConchie: right that that that should that needs to be addressed in this bylaw so that's really specific

[1:19:37] Trustee McConchie: direction everything else regarding housing of course we should make it so housing uh you

[1:19:42] Trustee McConchie: you know folks can have workers on their farm of course we should be doing everything we can to

[1:19:48] Trustee McConchie: limit regulations so farm workers can come and encourage agricultural tourism this is a no-brainer

[1:19:55] Trustee McConchie: to me that should have been dealt with years ago and the big piece that I saw from this which was

[1:20:01] Trustee McConchie: great work was the idea of renewable energy so point 18 renewable energy installation should be

[1:20:07] Trustee McConchie: encouraged on agricultural property so we should be doing everything we can to encourage solar farms

[1:20:11] Trustee McConchie: water catchment areas on farmland right so i want to make sure that that is definitely in the in the

[1:20:17] Trustee McConchie: bylaw minutes and luckily staff have said yes they're in favor of that um and then another

[1:20:21] Trustee McConchie: issue which is point 21 which needs to be addressed which is which is a no from staff which is bylaw

[1:20:26] Trustee McConchie: officers can just walk onto your farm whenever they want well i don't think that's fair i think

[1:20:30] Trustee McConchie: i think people should be given notice on when a bylaw enforcement officer is coming to check things

[1:20:34] Trustee McConchie: out um and the staff have said no and i think we should say yes that that bylaw enforcement should

[1:20:40] Trustee McConchie: give notice to farmers to let them know when they're coming to inspect their property rather

[1:20:45] Trustee McConchie: than just show up out of nowhere. I'm not sure if I've missed anything. But those are the no's that

[1:20:51] Trustee McConchie: I want to turn to yeses in the including bylaw amendment. So I'm not sure if I need to draft a

[1:20:55] Trustee McConchie: motion or did you hear Robert from from my perspective what that makes sense planner stock

[1:20:59] Trustee McConchie: deal. And that's that's those are my thoughts. Thanks.

[1:21:03] Trustee Patrick: I just wanted to share because we're

[1:21:05] Trustee Patrick: having the same conversation on salt spring just so that you know that these are big issues. And

[1:21:10] Trustee Patrick: And we're going to have to make some choices and get some things done.

[1:21:13] Trustee Patrick: Some things won't get done.

[1:21:14] Trustee Patrick: But what we've done here on Salt Spring is we've committed to meeting quarterly.

[1:21:17] Trustee Patrick: The date's being scheduled with the agricultural community to carry on the conversation with

[1:21:22] Trustee Patrick: the trustees.

[1:21:23] Trustee Patrick: So we're meeting quarterly and carrying on the conversation.

[1:21:28] Trustee Patrick: And then we also changed the AAPC's terms of reference to give them a bit more latitude

[1:21:35] Trustee Patrick: to bring in resources and support as they advise us as well.

[1:21:39] Trustee Patrick: So, you know, this is an ongoing conversation, you know, farming is important to the community and for the resilience of the community. And I think, you know, we're not going to get it all done this time. I think we're going to have to make some choices and get started and then carry on this really good conversation, you know, into the, into the ongoing.

[1:22:00] Trustee McConchie: Sorry, Chair Patrick, what are we not going to get done?

[1:22:02] Trustee McConchie: well

[1:22:02] Trustee Patrick: we can't we won't fix everything well it's

[1:22:05] Trustee Patrick: all i'm saying is there will

[1:22:07] Trustee Patrick: always be more work

[1:22:08] Trustee Patrick: to do to support the agricultural community and and there's always unintended consequences too

[1:22:15] Trustee Patrick: maybe you thought you fixed something and it didn't have that outcome so it's to have an

[1:22:20] Trustee Patrick: ongoing commitment to carry on the conversation can

[1:22:24] Voice 7: i agriculture important yes can i ask chair

[1:22:27] Voice 7: Patrick a question yes for Salt Spring I know it was an issue for your egg advisory planning

[1:22:36] Voice 7: commission that you could not have the they could not have the regional agrologists there

[1:22:41] Voice 7: at their meetings that was a bit of

[1:22:44] Trustee Patrick: an issue are they

[1:22:45] Voice 7: allowed to have yes

[1:22:46] Trustee Patrick: we revised the the yes we

[1:22:48] Trustee Patrick: did okay good so

[1:22:52] Voice 7: that would be the same for us for Northender that

[1:22:55] Trustee Patrick: would be those are things that

[1:22:57] Trustee Patrick: that could be looked at as to the terms of reference

[1:22:59] Trustee Patrick: for the APC could have similar,

[1:23:01] Trustee Patrick: those are things to be looked at.

[1:23:03] Voice 7: Okay, good.

[1:23:05] Voice 13: Laura, I think one of the points

[1:23:07] Voice 13: that Barb made at the outset

[1:23:08] Voice 13: and you're reinforcing at the moment is a very good one.

[1:23:11] Voice 13: And that's the notion that goes back

[1:23:13] Voice 13: to this participatory democracy,

[1:23:16] Voice 13: as opposed to sort of a hierarchical,

[1:23:21] Voice 13: dictatorial, bureaucratic sort of process.

[1:23:22] Voice 13: It will evolve over time, things will happen.

[1:23:25] Voice 13: And so to the extent that you have a group of people who appear at this moment to be interested to engage, I would certainly encourage the trust to embrace that engagement because you, you usually have people coming to you, singing your praises, but actually they're in complete opposition with what you're doing.

[1:23:45] Voice 9: so

[1:23:47] Voice 13: you know i i think you've got a group of people who think about agriculture they live it you know

[1:23:52] Voice 13: some of us it's been our entire life and and we're curious and we're interested to find novel

[1:23:59] Voice 13: solutions for different situations and so to the extent that you can find some people who are

[1:24:04] Voice 13: willing to engage i would encourage the trust to engage them

[1:24:07] Trustee Morrison: so i definitely agree with that

[1:24:11] Trustee Morrison: I think that it's helpful to have more regular meetings and more regular sort of interactive

[1:24:17] Trustee Morrison: conversations with this to that end I would like to to to still move things forward um and get some

[1:24:25] Trustee Morrison: of these things into place I think it is helpful um if you have enough direction because I I pretty

[1:24:33] Trustee Morrison: much agree with most of what um Ben has said on the specifics I do think it would be helpful to

[1:24:38] Trustee Morrison: try and explore this issue of like what inside the um the rural residential general might be

[1:24:47] Trustee Morrison: uh open for variances or like for rezoning if we rezoned it there's just something there that

[1:24:56] Trustee Morrison: will deal with the um the issue of um farm sales that i think is needing to be explored in if we

[1:25:08] Trustee Morrison: we pull those zones apart, what that means.

[1:25:11] Trustee Morrison: But I like the idea that it could just be a change in use,

[1:25:14] Trustee Morrison: like a rezoning for a change in use.

[1:25:16] Trustee Morrison: And then that instigates a community conversation.

[1:25:18] Trustee Morrison: I would love to see those things drafted into a form

[1:25:22] Trustee Morrison: that we can then push back into the agricultural APC

[1:25:26] Trustee Morrison: to be able to have that additional level

[1:25:28] Trustee Morrison: of conversation and thinking.

[1:25:31] Trustee Morrison: And, you know, at that point,

[1:25:32] Trustee Morrison: things get a little bit more detailed

[1:25:34] Trustee Morrison: and, you know, we can actually, I think,

[1:25:37] Trustee Morrison: and get to some of that specificity that isn't necessarily prescriptive but like allows us some

[1:25:42] Trustee Morrison: wiggle room if we need it then we can figure that out more clearly at that point i think talking in

[1:25:47] Trustee Morrison: generalities is always challenging so um that would be my goal do you have enough direction

[1:25:53] Trustee Morrison: robert i

[1:25:54] Voice 3: think we have direction kim did you yes

[1:25:56] Planner Stockdill: yeah no i made all those notes um staff have

[1:26:00] Planner Stockdill: provided a recommendation for the LTC to consider on page 85 and that would give direction to staff

[1:26:08] Planner Stockdill: to put forth those recommendations in the attachment with the changes to numbers 1, 2,

[1:26:15] Planner Stockdill: and 21 and with that when staff start to work on number one in terms of that potential new zone

[1:26:24] Planner Stockdill: own. Staff will keep in mind the scale of agriculture in terms of those smaller lots

[1:26:30] Planner Stockdill: and also farm sales. And then what we could do is once that's drafted, we could either

[1:26:35] Planner Stockdill: send it to the special APC at that point, or LDC has the option to actually send this right now to

[1:26:40] Planner Stockdill: the special APC to provide comments. And then staff can use those comments from the special APC

[1:26:45] Planner Stockdill: to draft the bylaw. Yeah,

[1:26:48] Trustee Morrison: I like that latter idea. I think that, I don't know, that's kind

[1:26:52] Trustee Morrison: of a barb and george question well

[1:26:55] Voice 3: normally the ltc would want to have a look at the draft first

[1:26:57] Voice 3: make sure it captures your your intent the

[1:27:03] Trustee McConchie: one thing that really needs clarity for me is i want

[1:27:05] Trustee McConchie: to so it sounds to me like the aapc really wants to hang out still do we have the budget for if we

[1:27:10] Trustee McConchie: wanted to direct them to research more on this topic robert yep okay so george and barb are you

[1:27:17] Trustee McConchie: guys you guys it sounds to me like uh this should be a regular group that should be a fundamental

[1:27:21] Trustee McConchie: part of the local trust committee uh in order to advise the local trust committee so i want to keep

[1:27:26] Trustee McConchie: this as a consistent uh policy group that meets is is that something that you guys would be uh you

[1:27:31] Trustee McConchie: think uh is important to that's what i'm hearing from your comments right yeah

[1:27:35] Voice 7: yeah our report was

[1:27:37] Voice 7: the title says preliminary yeah

[1:27:40] Trustee McConchie: yeah so i'm wondering if what yeah go ahead george and if i

[1:27:45] Voice 13: i could i you know this is particularly focused on a bylaw review around an ocp as you confront

[1:27:54] Voice 13: things in the future you know while agriculture isn't the driver of any economy here there's

[1:28:00] Voice 13: there's some of it around and it's enshrined that we want to have it as part of the world

[1:28:04] Voice 13: character i think it's worthwhile in certain circumstances that we cannot yet foresee

[1:28:09] Voice 13: that commentary remember maybe you don't know barb and i are both agrologists

[1:28:14] Voice 13: you know that was our early training you know we don't necessarily have to go outside the community

[1:28:21] Voice 13: to the regional agrologist for for this we've got practicing farmers we've got farmers who have

[1:28:26] Voice 13: science and farmers who have business background here and so i think i think ben the short answer

[1:28:33] Voice 13: to your question is having it as a standing committee that might only meet twice a year i

[1:28:38] Voice 13: can't imagine it's going to cost you much other than you under your processes you need a recorder

[1:28:42] Voice 13: order but nobody's asking for anything for it and

[1:28:46] Trustee Patrick: on salt spring we have so there's the aapc which

[1:28:50] Trustee Patrick: is always sitting and on our on demand for when there's applications and questions and then this

[1:28:55] Trustee Patrick: quarterly meeting is with a broader group of agricultural people including the aapc sit down

[1:29:01] Trustee Patrick: and join us in those meetings so so

[1:29:04] Trustee McConchie: then that's great um so then i'm wondering there's two kind

[1:29:06] Trustee McConchie: of issues that i think the aapc could help us with uh the one being the review of the of the

[1:29:13] Trustee McConchie: the bylaw that we end up coming up with i want to hear their comments on the on the draft bylaw

[1:29:17] Trustee McConchie: that we have but number two is is this idea of scale um and a discussion that the aapc should

[1:29:24] Trustee McConchie: have uh and and then bring back to the local trust committee um don't you would that be worth meeting

[1:29:30] Trustee McConchie: and discussing do you think george and barb yeah i'm wondering do we need to provide direction to

[1:29:37] Trustee McConchie: to AAPC to report back to the local trust committee

[1:29:41] Trustee McConchie: discussing the scale as it relates to item number two

[1:29:45] Trustee McConchie: on the recommendations.

[1:29:47] Voice 3: Yeah, you should give it by resolution.

[1:29:50] Voice 3: Give them the direction.

[1:29:52] Trustee Morrison: So George, thoughts on that?

[1:29:54] Voice 13: I'd suggest two things, Ben.

[1:29:57] Voice 13: That one is you could...

[1:30:00] Voice 13: request of the committee that they provide you a written response to staff's comments so that

[1:30:05] Voice 13: you know then it's a considered response it's not george and barb has spoken right yeah um it's a

[1:30:12] Voice 13: considered response and i think that would be very helpful to staff to understand you know a little

[1:30:16] Voice 13: further i mean yes the report was very detailed but now staff has done their response so it's

[1:30:22] Voice 13: sort of like a

[1:30:22] Voice 13: rebuttal and so i think that's worthwhile the second thing is i think you could

[1:30:29] Voice 13: ask the committee because this you know you you have some of us who would be opposed to any

[1:30:35] Voice 13: regulation and the best answer is to get rid of it all um you know so we there is that sort of bias

[1:30:41] Voice 13: and so we we we all have that somewhere in us but i i think this notion of of how do we you use the

[1:30:51] Voice 13: word we use discretion and and variability and those sorts of things how do we how do we deal

[1:30:56] Voice 13: with that and it's a question we didn't really tackle very well and i think we could tackle it

[1:31:01] Voice 13: better so

[1:31:02] Trustee Morrison: do you think it's helpful to have that kind of conversation before we have any draft

[1:31:06] Trustee Morrison: bylaws in play or do you think it's helpful to have draft bylaws in play that then we comment to

[1:31:11] Trustee Morrison: i guess that's the question

[1:31:13] Voice 13: that's on the table yeah i see where you're going deb and i and i

[1:31:16] Voice 13: it gives you a straw person to to deal with as opposed to a bunch of theoretical stuff

[1:31:24] Voice 13: potentially the concern that i think we would have is this just the steamroller gathering steam

[1:31:31] Voice 13: you know and and and it's just one more whistle stop along the way to squash or

[1:31:38] Voice 13: or or not like it has to be once it's written as a draft bylaw that doesn't become the answer

[1:31:45] Voice 13: and any leaks or major issues i mean it should be that that's draft for discussion and all parts can

[1:31:51] Voice 13: be subject to you know what's reasonable all part that

[1:31:54] Trustee Morrison: would be my intent my intent would it to be

[1:31:57] Trustee Morrison: literally a straw person that could be like reefed apart but to give something to like tear into like

[1:32:03] Trustee Morrison: in a way and hopefully the staff feel that way i you know but i think it it provides that kind of

[1:32:09] Trustee Morrison: juncture of like a concrete place to give that reasoned response to what could be potential

[1:32:15] Trustee Morrison: bylaws yeah

[1:32:16] Trustee Patrick: and that's what it's intended to be george and i think that's how the process is

[1:32:20] Trustee Patrick: intended to work a draft bylaw is meant to be that's the time to rip it apart comment and do

[1:32:26] Trustee Patrick: all that work the

[1:32:27] Voice 13: resistance uh devon laura will be um whoever establishes the framework controls

[1:32:34] Voice 13: the conversation and and so at that stage that you have a framework of a draft whoever's prepared

[1:32:40] Voice 13: that has a certain sense of ownership to it and is going to is going to defend their the position

[1:32:47] Voice 13: they've taken and so I just put this out as a caution and I understand what you're saying that's

[1:32:51] Voice 13: part of the process but it's just that's how the two groups might be interacting at that stage it

[1:32:56] Voice 13: doesn't mean it shouldn't be done it's just as long as we're all aware that that could be one

[1:33:01] Voice 13: of the reactions you get from people yeah

[1:33:03] Trustee Morrison: and I just I guess what I'm trying to figure out is

[1:33:05] Trustee Morrison: what's the best way to take it to take and leverage the local knowledge and resources

[1:33:11] Trustee Morrison: into actual specific bylaws like to get to that point where we you know need to act

[1:33:16] Trustee Morrison: I

[1:33:17] Voice 13: think I think a draft is fine as long as we all have a very clear understanding

[1:33:21] Voice 13: it's a draft that yeah it

[1:33:23] Voice 13: may change so

[1:33:25] Trustee Morrison: from my perspective I would like to see draft bylaws that

[1:33:27] Trustee Morrison: go directly to the APC don't come back through us so that they're really like we get deep comment

[1:33:32] Trustee Morrison: from the from the agricultural APC on that for us to then think about and consider together

[1:33:38] Trustee Morrison: because I don't necessarily want to consider not nothing personal to the staff but I want this to

[1:33:43] Trustee Morrison: to be a collaborative effort between staff

[1:33:45] Trustee Morrison: and the folks on the island who know agriculture.

[1:33:48] Trustee Morrison: Like I just need all that opinion stuff together

[1:33:51] Trustee Morrison: to think about afterwards.

[1:33:52] Trustee Morrison: I

[1:33:53] Trustee Patrick: mean, you can, to me, that's a motion.

[1:33:55] Trustee Patrick: You say you take this, you can proactively direct

[1:33:59] Trustee Patrick: that the draft be sent to the AAPC for comment

[1:34:04] Trustee Patrick: before it comes to the LTC.

[1:34:08] Trustee McConchie: Okay, but we need a written reply from the AAPC.

[1:34:12] Trustee McConchie: We have, we need that.

[1:34:13] Trustee McConchie: that we haven't got that yet yeah but

[1:34:15] Trustee Morrison: i don't want to consider them piecemeal then i guess

[1:34:17] Trustee Morrison: is what i'm arguing i want kind of like all of that to be like maybe maybe there is a written

[1:34:23] Trustee Morrison: risk like that that one thing to do george would be to have those meetings to like have like get

[1:34:28] Trustee Morrison: some refinement on that thinking inside the apc for the staff to be doing some of that like

[1:34:33] Trustee Morrison: distilling down to like a bio like a super drafty bylaw form and then like all of those things come

[1:34:39] Trustee Morrison: come together the AAPC the AAPC takes that all together then with their new sort of thinking and

[1:34:45] Trustee Morrison: and scale and then processes that and brings it back so I think there's like several steps

[1:34:49] Trustee Morrison: potentially yeah

[1:34:53] Voice 13: I don't I don't think I think they can Barb it can be done in parallel and I

[1:34:58] Voice 13: and I think what I would encourage is is perhaps it would be useful to staff to actually at some

[1:35:03] Voice 13: point before they go very far in drafting to just sit and have a conversation with the members of

[1:35:08] Voice 13: the committee that happen to be available and talk about these things i mean yeah we can write

[1:35:13] Voice 13: a report and then somebody else can write another report but maybe just a conversation for an hour

[1:35:17] Voice 13: would be helpful

[1:35:18] Voice 7: i'm

[1:35:20] Voice 13: not sure that works in your processes but you

[1:35:22] Voice 7: know i would like that okay so

[1:35:26] Trustee McConchie: what do we what do we got to direct the aapc to get together and chat is that what we do

[1:35:30] Trustee McConchie: i'm not sure what is that right well

[1:35:33] Trustee Patrick: you refer something to them either a specific question or

[1:35:36] Trustee McConchie: the staff report for discussion uh for the aapc to discuss and and have a conversation and then

[1:35:44] Trustee McConchie: have a concurrent um the staff working on the draft bylaws concurrently

[1:35:50] Trustee Patrick: robert you had a

[1:35:52] Trustee Patrick: suggestion i'm

[1:35:53] Voice 3: just going to say if maybe first resolution is to give direction to prepare the

[1:35:57] Voice 3: draft bylaw yeah or

[1:35:59] Voice 3: prepare draft amendments let's say um so it's a little less concrete than a bylaw

[1:36:05] Voice 3: it's just draft prepare the draft amendments um with number one two number one number two and

[1:36:09] Voice 3: number 21 included the three that you referenced um so then we got that direction okay great

[1:36:17] Trustee McConchie: and then and then

[1:36:19] Trustee McConchie: direct the aapc um to me and uh discuss the uh the staff report

[1:36:26] Trustee McConchie: as per the agenda today does that

[1:36:29] Voice 13: make sense perhaps ben perhaps ben just the aapc will

[1:36:33] Voice 13: provide a written response um i don't know when we could provide that by today is the 29th of april

[1:36:39] Voice 13: so i maybe three weeks sure and

[1:36:46] Voice 3: then the draft amendments be referred to the aapc right

[1:36:51] Trustee McConchie: so that's

[1:36:54] Trustee McConchie: what do we need to make a formal motion i'm i'm are you guys getting this i think we're going to

[1:36:59] Trustee McConchie: need a motion what do we start

[1:37:00] Voice 3: yeah did you capture that good

[1:37:05] Voice 18: so that the north pender island local

[1:37:07] Voice 18: trust committee direct staff to prepare the draft amendments for items 1 2 and 21.

[1:37:13] Voice 3: i think it would

[1:37:13] Voice 3: be all the amendments including including 1 2 and 21.

[1:37:18] Planner Stockdill: you can use the wording um from the

[1:37:20] Planner Stockdill: recommendation on page 85 and then you can include 1 2 and 21 and

[1:37:29] Voice 3: that those draft amendments be

[1:37:31] Voice 3: referred to the aapc for comment shannon's

[1:37:41] Trustee Patrick: ready she can read that back would it read that the

[1:38:12] Voice 18: the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee give direction to staff to include the recommendations

[1:38:16] Voice 18: found in attachment number one to the draft bylaw including the amendments to items 1, 2, and 21

[1:38:22] Voice 18: and that the amendments be referred to the North Pender Agricultural Advisory Planning Commission

[1:38:27] Voice 18: for comment.

[1:38:29] Trustee Patrick: That sounds right. Who's making that motion? I will.

[1:38:33] Trustee Patrick: I'll second. Seconded by

[1:38:35] Trustee Patrick: by Trustee Morrison.

[1:38:36] Trustee Patrick: Any discussion?

[1:38:38] Trustee Patrick: I'll call the vote.

[1:38:39] Trustee Patrick: All those in favor?

[1:38:41] Trustee Patrick: And that's carried.

[1:38:43] Trustee Patrick: Is there any further?

[1:38:44] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, I think we need another motion

[1:38:46] Trustee Morrison: if I'm understanding this right.

[1:38:49] Trustee Morrison: That the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee

[1:38:52] Trustee Morrison: request the Agricultural APC

[1:38:56] Trustee Morrison: to review the staff report

[1:39:02] Trustee Morrison: on the agricultural review

[1:39:04] Trustee Morrison: review and provide written feedback i'll

[1:39:17] Trustee McConchie: second the motion that sounds good all

[1:39:19] Trustee Patrick: right that's fine

[1:39:20] Trustee Patrick: i

[1:39:20] Voice 18: was just waiting for shannon's good shannon yeah

[1:39:23] Trustee McConchie: that

[1:39:24] Voice 18: the north pender island local trust

[1:39:25] Voice 18: committee request that the north pender island agricultural advisory planning commission review

[1:39:32] Voice 18: the staff report on the agricultural review and provide written feedback i think

[1:39:37] Trustee Morrison: that's fine yep

[1:39:37] Trustee Morrison: do

[1:39:39] Trustee Patrick: you need the date of the i was wondering

[1:39:41] Trustee Morrison: if we needed the date dated april 29th yep

[1:39:44] Trustee Patrick: Yep.

[1:39:46] Trustee McConchie: Well, one thing, just before we vote, just a comment on the motion. It's just, you know, get whatever quorum you can get for this. I know it's hard to schedule people, you know, so hopefully this isn't too hard to schedule. I know it can be challenging to get everyone in the room together. But the sooner the comments, the better would be great. So we can keep this moving.

[1:40:11] Trustee Patrick: All

[1:40:11] Trustee Morrison: right. Any further discussion on this motion?

[1:40:13] Trustee Morrison: motion my my expectation on this motion is is also on staff to really you know work and converse

[1:40:21] Trustee Morrison: as needed and as as seems beneficial in that effort to really have that open conversation

[1:40:26] Trustee Morrison: because i know we have public process i get all that but we also want to build relationships with

[1:40:31] Trustee Morrison: staff and community so like that would be really good to do all

[1:40:37] Trustee Patrick: right any further discussion just

[1:40:39] Trustee McConchie: Just my last point, which is that it's the goal for me as a trustee is to help farmers thrive.

[1:40:49] Trustee McConchie: Even if they're a social enterprise, it helps with our food sustainability here on the islands.

[1:40:55] Trustee McConchie: So that's the goal for me as a trustee is to ensure our farming community does well.

[1:41:02] Trustee McConchie: And the LTA, the bylaws are not prohibitive to their development.

[1:41:06] Trustee McConchie: thank

[1:41:07] Trustee Patrick: you any further discussion i'll call the vote then all those in favor and that too is

[1:41:14] Trustee Patrick: carried i think that wraps up thank you george and barbara for your commitments and uh yes thank

[1:41:19] Trustee Patrick: you very much

[1:41:20] Trustee Patrick: barb and george thank

[1:41:21] Voice 9: you and

[1:41:22] Trustee Patrick: to everyone else that's on the uh on the commission

[1:41:24] Trustee Patrick: and uh look forward to ongoing conversations because this is very important okay

[1:41:29] Trustee Morrison: and i i

[1:41:30] Trustee Morrison: really have enjoyed the conversations with you both directly and would love to be continue into

[1:41:36] Trustee Morrison: to that kind of conversation as I'm not a farmer so it's helpful to learn and understand what the

[1:41:41] Trustee Morrison: issues are that we need to address yeah

[1:41:44] Voice 13: thank you all

[1:41:45] Trustee Patrick: right thank you very much I'm just going to

[1:41:49] Trustee Patrick: move quickly on to the correspondence that we have at 11.1 on page 24 that we received from

[1:41:54] Trustee Patrick: Reid Pope that we've received this correspondence and we'll be discussing this further in an in

[1:42:01] Trustee Patrick: camera meeting and we may have information on a rise and report following the meeting

[1:42:05] Trustee Patrick: is there any further discussion on this correspondence at this time i'm going to

[1:42:11] Trustee Patrick: look at uh we had a break that was scheduled in here do we want to take a break now or keep

[1:42:15] Trustee Patrick: moving forward keep moving forward all right uh so that's going to bring us on to then the

[1:42:22] Trustee Patrick: into the applications which is uh first one's a development permit uh and the development

[1:42:27] Trustee Patrick: variance permit for uh holy williams and brown and the staff memo is on page 26 of the agenda

[1:42:33] Trustee Patrick: Agenda Package and I see Planner Testimale has joined us. Give us a staff report.

[1:42:39] Voice 14: Thanks Chair Patrick. So North Pender DP 2000 sorry 2020.3 and DVP 2020.5 which is Hoyland and Brown

[1:42:50] Voice 14: and this is 6404 Razor Point Road and this application or sorry these two applications

[1:42:56] Voice 14: were on the agenda at the last meeting and at that meeting a resolution was passed

[1:43:02] Voice 14: requesting that the applicant submit further information about alternative

[1:43:07] Voice 14: siting of the lower deck these are variances sorry I haven't put in the

[1:43:16] Voice 14: memo the there's a link to the previous staff report but the variances are for

[1:43:20] Voice 14: an existing walkway and a lower deck which was encroaching onto the

[1:43:28] Voice 14: neighbouring property and again to go back to the resolution they were asking for both alternatives

[1:43:35] Voice 14: from the applicant in terms of moving that to completely comply with the setbacks and also

[1:43:43] Voice 14: the biologist comments on doing that so and that's the part the prop the purpose of the memo is to

[1:43:50] Voice 14: provide those two pieces of information and on page two of that I summarized that we the applicant

[1:43:57] Voice 14: did speak to his contractor and that conversation revealed that it was

[1:44:04] Voice 14: feasible to actually move it but that does involve essentially a list of

[1:44:10] Voice 14: things that would need to happen on that lower deck which would be deconstructing

[1:44:13] Voice 14: the whole lower deck pouring new concrete foundations reconstructing the

[1:44:19] Voice 14: deck and stairs that extend down to the beach level and then potentially having

[1:44:25] Voice 14: having to rebuild or reconfigure the flight of stairs above.

[1:44:31] Voice 14: So that being said, there would still be required variances

[1:44:35] Voice 14: for upper portions of the walkway

[1:44:38] Voice 14: that encroach into the side yard setback

[1:44:40] Voice 14: and the size of the actual landings

[1:44:44] Voice 14: which require variances as well.

[1:44:47] Voice 14: I did discuss and he did forward the resolution

[1:44:51] Voice 14: to Keith Erickson, who's the QEP.

[1:44:54] Voice 14: And I had a conversation with Keith and Keith has provided an email which is attached to the memo which basically straightforwardly says that the proposed option to alter the structure by reducing its size is more preferable to moving it, which would be more

[1:45:14] Voice 14: problematic in terms of not only the sensitive ecosystem but in his unprofessional geotechnical

[1:45:21] Voice 14: assessment that it would actually affect or could potentially affect the geotechnical stability of

[1:45:26] Voice 14: the slope by creating that much more work unnecessarily and just to emphasize I wasn't

[1:45:33] Voice 14: at the last meeting but the neighboring property owner has provided a letter or did provide a

[1:45:41] Voice 14: letter that was fully in support of this and I did with the applicant himself meet with all three

[1:45:48] Voice 14: all three of us met and we discussed options and this was decided that this that they had no issue

[1:45:56] Voice 14: with this option and it was actually the highly preferable one because it puts the lower deck

[1:46:01] Voice 14: clearly on subject property and and is the least intrusive so the recommendation is stands from the

[1:46:10] Voice 14: the first report which are that the North Pender Island local trust community approve issuance of

[1:46:17] Voice 14: development permit NPDP 2020.3 Hoyland and Brown and that the North Pender Island local trust

[1:46:24] Voice 14: committee approve issuance of development variance permit NPDDP 2020.5 Hoyland and Brown

[1:46:31] Voice 14: and the recommendation that the the rationale for those recommendations are that the applications

[1:46:38] Voice 14: as they were presented initially,

[1:46:40] Voice 14: would be the least impactful to the sensitive ecosystem

[1:46:43] Voice 14: and to the slope stability,

[1:46:45] Voice 14: which is an issue on this property.

[1:46:49] Voice 14: And that's the summary of my report

[1:46:51] Voice 14: or my memo, I should say.

[1:46:53] Trustee Patrick: Thank you very much.

[1:46:54] Trustee Patrick: I see the applicant is here.

[1:46:57] Trustee Patrick: I believe it's Steven Boyden.

[1:47:10] Trustee Patrick: Steven, if you could turn your,

[1:47:12] Trustee Patrick: you're welcome to turn your video on if you wish as well,

[1:47:15] Trustee Patrick: or in your...

[1:47:18] Trustee Patrick: my

[1:47:18] Voice 1: mic is unmuted now yes

[1:47:20] Trustee Patrick: hello is there anything you

[1:47:22] Trustee Patrick: wish to add uh

[1:47:24] Voice 1: no no i think

[1:47:26] Voice 1: phil summarized it just right thank

[1:47:30] Trustee Patrick: you very much i'll turn to the trustees questions comments what

[1:47:33] Trustee Patrick: would you like to do um

[1:47:36] Trustee McConchie: well well i i recall if i recall uh trustee morrison you were you kind of

[1:47:40] Trustee McConchie: i was in support of the original application and then you brought up what i thought was an

[1:47:45] Trustee McConchie: interesting point which was is there other alternatives to what they're doing and so

[1:47:50] Trustee McConchie: reading from what i'm reading from i guess it's an unprofessional assessment phil i guess it's

[1:47:55] Trustee McConchie: an email but it's still an assessment uh it says because we're just we're talking about a deck here

[1:47:59] Trustee McConchie: right the biological community currently occupying the general area of the newly proposed works is

[1:48:05] Trustee McConchie: highly disturbed so he saw it highly disturbed and primarily consists of bare soil and invasive

[1:48:10] Trustee McConchie: of scotch broom so the biologist basically this is a a big hill that's pretty ecologically useless

[1:48:18] Trustee McConchie: is how i'm reading that no am

[1:48:21] Trustee McConchie: i wrong no

[1:48:21] Voice 14: no you

[1:48:22] Voice 14: you are sorry to correct you but um

[1:48:25] Trustee McConchie: portions of

[1:48:26] Trustee McConchie: it

[1:48:26] Voice 14: are um but it it if in the in his report it does establish and it actually expands the area

[1:48:33] Voice 14: where there's the important ecosystem which is the woodland ecosystem so that's indicative with

[1:48:39] Voice 14: arbutus in this case and associated vegetation like you know shrub vegetation and etc there are

[1:48:46] Voice 14: areas where he's prescribed that invasive species be removed with the caution that this is an

[1:48:53] Voice 14: exceptionally steep slope I won't tell my own tale about being on that property by myself and getting

[1:48:59] Voice 14: a bit freaked out by it but it and it is and he's pointed out that you know in doing in undertaking

[1:49:07] Voice 14: taking to work any sort of replanting uh and removal of invasive species that you know that

[1:49:13] Voice 14: should proceed with caution but um you know the short answer is is that there is a an ecological

[1:49:19] Voice 14: community that's been established there and that needs to be um needs to be enhanced um possibly

[1:49:26] Voice 14: not on the lower level but um what he's talking about there is is is using and if you again going

[1:49:33] Voice 14: going back to his, his larger report is, um, uh, exercising as much caution as possible because of

[1:49:41] Voice 14: the obvious instability of, of the area. So, yeah,

[1:49:46] Trustee McConchie: just my final thought. And then I wanted

[1:49:47] Trustee McConchie: to hear from you, trustee Morrison. So thanks for that clarification, Phil. So, um, in a perfect,

[1:49:53] Trustee McConchie: so what are we talking about here? So in a perfect world, you would have a beach access that the

[1:49:57] Trustee McConchie: community uses and it's one set of stairs, but that hasn't happened. We had this unregulated

[1:50:02] Trustee McConchie: thing where people can just build whatever they want you know going down with stairs down whatever

[1:50:07] Trustee McConchie: for a while for a while and now what's what from what i understand from the application

[1:50:11] Trustee McConchie: it's actually removing it would be more uh damaging to the environment than maintaining it

[1:50:16] Trustee McConchie: right so you know i i this is kind of a what do we do about this can i just can

[1:50:22] Voice 14: i just correct

[1:50:22] Voice 14: the

[1:50:22] Trustee McConchie: people

[1:50:23] Voice 14: are still allowed you're right um there's encouragements through policy to the

[1:50:28] Voice 14: policy documents with the OCP, which is to combine infrastructure like this, be it stairways or

[1:50:35] Voice 14: docks, for instance, community docks is probably the better example. But people, this is actually

[1:50:41] Voice 14: putting the stairs to access the foreshore or to access a dock is an allowable exemption

[1:50:48] Voice 14: in the 15 meter setback from the natural boundary of the sea. The issue with this set of stairs,

[1:50:54] Voice 14: which in again I'm sorry I keep referencing back to the original staff report they were built to

[1:51:01] Voice 14: replace an existing stairwell we're not sure the date of the previous sorry the previous stairwell

[1:51:06] Voice 14: but the only issue with these stairs is is that they actually stray into the side yard setback

[1:51:12] Voice 14: and the lower deck so sorry I should correct myself like the stairwells have to meet the

[1:51:18] Voice 14: three meter setback um but they're completely legal if you do it within the setbacks um so

[1:51:25] Voice 14: what's happened here is is that it strays into the three meter setback going down and then at

[1:51:31] Voice 14: the bottom it encroached by going over onto the prop the neighboring property nobody knew about

[1:51:36] Voice 14: this until they actually had them do a survey and it revealed that this was on the neighbor's

[1:51:42] Voice 14: property so um i just want to make that that fine that that important point that this is not

[1:51:48] Voice 14: something that is helter skelter that people are allowed to do this so you know it's just the

[1:51:54] Voice 14: incursion

[1:51:56] Trustee Morrison: and it's the incursion and the varied landings because there's some landings that were

[1:52:02] Trustee Morrison: oversized for the stairs right actually

[1:52:05] Voice 14: can i sorry i should just follow up with that i should

[1:52:08] Trustee Morrison: should say

[1:52:08] Voice 14: one further thing that um it what what was done without permission was that it's actually

[1:52:15] Voice 14: in a development permit area so that that's another important point so in some senses you're

[1:52:19] Voice 14: right um trustee mcconaghy that they needed a development permit to ensure that there was

[1:52:25] Voice 14: you know an assessment of the of the um ecological um because they're the ecosystem sensitive

[1:52:32] Voice 14: ecosystem there an assessment of impacts and some remediation if that was necessary so

[1:52:38] Voice 14: where there was a sidestep there was no permits sought by the contractor didn't know i they

[1:52:44] Voice 14: presumed or the it was presumed that they didn't know they needed them i i can't comment on that

[1:52:50] Voice 14: and so the the legal way of proceeding with this would have been that they would have applied for

[1:52:56] Voice 14: for a DP. And of course, all of these issues may have been revealed at that or probably would have

[1:53:02] Voice 14: been revealed at that time. But again, there's questions about when things were done and without

[1:53:08] Voice 14: permits. So

[1:53:10] Trustee Morrison: that's interesting. So Phil, like, okay, so if they, from the perspective of it being

[1:53:18] Trustee Morrison: in a DP, do they still have the same right to build stairs?

[1:53:22] Voice 14: Yeah, so I mean, we've tried to,

[1:53:24] Voice 14: well, so just to be clear on a DP is that it's a management tool. So they can go through a DP area

[1:53:38] Voice 14: and what they need to do is they need to, A, apply for a DP. They need, and if we require it,

[1:53:44] Voice 14: they need a professional to submit. And I sort of itemized just my last comments about what that

[1:53:49] Voice 14: would entail and then they need to follow the advice and the recommendations of the QEP that

[1:53:57] Voice 14: would be put into a DP to to do that it would be difficult so as we've I think we've tried to

[1:54:04] Voice 14: emphasize in the past that if somebody meets all the all the criteria all the guidelines

[1:54:10] Voice 14: then legally the local trust committee doesn't have the discretion to say no

[1:54:15] Voice 14: know they yeah they they really are in a position where they need to

[1:54:19] Voice 14: to allow it so or i'm not

[1:54:22] Trustee Morrison: saying that's where we're going i just wanted to no but

[1:54:24] Voice 14: i just clarifying the process so yeah

[1:54:26] Trustee Morrison: so i'm okay to go ahead and put the recommendation on the table um if we're good to go that the

[1:54:33] Trustee Morrison: north pender island local trust committee approve issuance of development permit npdp

[1:54:37] Trustee Morrison: 2020.3 holland sorry holland and brown i think we do this

[1:54:44] Trustee Patrick: one separately so is there a second

[1:54:46] Trustee Patrick: the motion any discussion on this motion so

[1:54:49] Trustee Morrison: i think the only thing i would add is like

[1:54:51] Trustee Morrison: the last meeting the intent is not to not do this the intent is just to make sure that it's done as

[1:54:56] Trustee Morrison: best it possibly can and i think that's been met so it

[1:55:01] Voice 14: would have been helpful if i was attending i

[1:55:02] Voice 14: yeah no

[1:55:04] Trustee Patrick: no worries any further discussion no i'll

[1:55:07] Trustee Patrick: call the vote then all those in favor

[1:55:10] Trustee Patrick: and that's carried okay

[1:55:12] Trustee Morrison: so that the north bender island local trust committee approvations of the

[1:55:15] Trustee Morrison: development various permit variance permit npd vp 2020.5 hoyland and brown a second

[1:55:22] Trustee Morrison: any

[1:55:23] Trustee Patrick: discussion on this one no i'll call the vote all those in favor and that too is carried so

[1:55:30] Trustee Patrick: So thank you very much, Mr. Hoyland.

[1:55:31] Trustee Patrick: Thank you.

[1:55:33] Trustee Patrick: And thank

[1:55:33] Trustee Morrison: you very much for just taking that extra month

[1:55:38] Trustee Morrison: to just give it some thought and check for options.

[1:55:40] Trustee McConchie: That was helpful.

[1:55:41] Trustee McConchie: Just while we're on the topic,

[1:55:43] Trustee McConchie: will our land use bylaw review of the marine foreshore,

[1:55:45] Trustee McConchie: would that impact applications like this in the future?

[1:55:51] Voice 14: So my

[1:55:51] Voice 14: understanding was that you were looking at docs.

[1:55:54] Voice 14: Robert may want to weigh in on this,

[1:55:56] Voice 14: but it's an access issue to docs,

[1:56:00] Voice 14: potentially in cases like this.

[1:56:03] Trustee Patrick: You're muted, Robert.

[1:56:06] Voice 3: Not to take up too much time,

[1:56:07] Voice 3: but for example,

[1:56:08] Voice 3: one of the directions you've already given

[1:56:09] Voice 3: is to dock should now be by rezoning application.

[1:56:13] Voice 3: So that alone would probably affect the demand

[1:56:16] Voice 3: for these types of stairs

[1:56:18] Voice 3: because if there's no new docks,

[1:56:19] Voice 3: then there's less demand for the stairs to access them.

[1:56:23] Voice 3: Also, you could be looking at further restrictions

[1:56:26] Voice 3: on the stairs.

[1:56:28] Voice 3: there's some some issues with the way the current regulations are written from technical point of

[1:56:33] Voice 3: view that make it difficult to interpret so there'll certainly be some some minor technical

[1:56:39] Voice 3: changes suggested and then there's the you know you could address the whole issue of stairs whether

[1:56:44] Voice 3: they should be permitted or not thank you okay

[1:56:47] Trustee McConchie: thank you all

[1:56:48] Trustee Patrick: right so moving on then we have a

[1:56:50] Trustee Patrick: 13.2 is a temporary use permit 2021 for langdale on page 36 of the agenda package and this will be

[1:56:58] Trustee Patrick: Hello Kim. Thank

[1:57:00] Planner Stockdill: you Chair Patrick. The purpose of the staff report is to consider a TUP for a

[1:57:07] Planner Stockdill: short-term vacation rental in an existing accessory building. The property owner first

[1:57:13] Planner Stockdill: applied back in 2016 to permit an STVR in an accessory building. It's actually a cottage-like

[1:57:22] Planner Stockdill: structure was constructed initially as a temporary dwelling unit while the owner was building their

[1:57:29] Planner Stockdill: main dwelling unit. Once the main dwelling unit was complete, the cabin was required to revert

[1:57:36] Planner Stockdill: back to an accessory building as the zoning only permits one dwelling unit on the property and no

[1:57:42] Planner Stockdill: cottages are permitted. Back in 2017, the TUP was issued for the short-term vacation

[1:57:51] Planner Stockdill: rental use in the accessory building. The applicant did request a renewal to the TUP

[1:57:58] Planner Stockdill: last year as the TUP expired, and the LTC approved the TUP renewal, but for a period of only one

[1:58:07] Planner Stockdill: year. So the applicant has now reapplied for a new TUP. The applicant is not proposing any changes

[1:58:16] Planner Stockdill: and wishes to continue to operate the short-term vacation rental with the maximum of just two guests in the accessory building.

[1:58:24] Planner Stockdill: So currently, the North Pender OCP TUP section has a SDVR guideline.

[1:58:33] Planner Stockdill: It's 6.4.11 that states that the LTC may consider issuing a permit to operate an SDVR in an accessory building.

[1:58:41] Planner Stockdill: As part of the short-term vacation review project, which is proposed bylaw number 222, staff did recommend that this guideline be removed as accessory buildings are not permitted to be used for human habitation, as stated in the North Pender LEB.

[1:59:00] Planner Stockdill: And so as part of bylaw number 222, that guideline is actually being removed from the OCP.

[1:59:10] Planner Stockdill: So in terms also with regards to the proposed bylaw number 222, staff did highlight a couple

[1:59:19] Planner Stockdill: of the new guidelines in consideration of this application.

[1:59:22] Planner Stockdill: So in terms of the cumulative impacts, in terms of that 200 meters from another STVR,

[1:59:28] Planner Stockdill: there are no other current TUPs within 200 meters of this TUP.

[1:59:36] Planner Stockdill: Again, the maximum number of guests is two, and there are currently only 10 STVRs issued

[1:59:44] Planner Stockdill: in the Magic Lake Estates.

[1:59:47] Planner Stockdill: One item that is not included in the draft permit is around limiting the number of days

[1:59:54] Planner Stockdill: during May 1st to September 30th to 30 days.

[1:59:58] Planner Stockdill: So if the LTC.

[2:00:00] Planner Stockdill: is considering approving this application, the LTC may want to consider amending the draft permit

[2:00:07] Planner Stockdill: to include that condition to restrict the use during the summer months. As part of the statutory

[2:00:16] Planner Stockdill: requirements, there was a notice posted and also the notice was circulated to neighbours.

[2:00:22] Planner Stockdill: We actually received six written submissions in response and all submissions either expressed

[2:00:28] Planner Stockdill: support for the application or stated that they had no objection so staff are recommending the

[2:00:35] Planner Stockdill: tup not be approved on the basis that accessory buildings are not permitted to be used for human

[2:00:42] Planner Stockdill: habitation in addition the ltc is in the process of removing that enabling guideline from the the

[2:00:49] Planner Stockdill: ocp if the tup is denied the property owner would have to would be required to comply with the land

[2:00:56] Planner Stockdill: use by law for by converting the non-conforming cottage back into an accessory building. The

[2:01:04] Planner Stockdill: applicant is aware of the staff's recommendations there's been our conversations back between the

[2:01:10] Planner Stockdill: applicant and staff and we encouraged the applicant to reach out to the neighbours

[2:01:15] Planner Stockdill: for letters of support. So if the LTC does wish to approve the TUP application based on

[2:01:22] Planner Stockdill: on the letters of support.

[2:01:23] Planner Stockdill: There's been no bylaw complaints to date

[2:01:26] Planner Stockdill: and the proposed bylaw number 222 has yet to be adopted.

[2:01:30] Planner Stockdill: There is a resolution for the LTC to consider

[2:01:33] Planner Stockdill: in the alternative section.

[2:01:35] Planner Stockdill: The LTC should also consider

[2:01:36] Planner Stockdill: if you are gonna improve the permit to add that condition

[2:01:42] Planner Stockdill: to potentially restrict the use during the summer months.

[2:01:47] Planner Stockdill: uh so on page 36 of the agenda there is a recommendation that the ltc not approve

[2:01:55] Planner Stockdill: issuance of the proposed temporary use permit and i believe the applicant is also here and

[2:02:01] Planner Stockdill: i would like to speak on her application thank you

[2:02:05] Trustee Patrick: planner stock bill so maple do we have uh zoe

[2:02:11] Voice 16: Yes, we do have Zoe here. I just moved her over as a panelist.

[2:02:15] Voice 5: Hello.

[2:02:17] Voice 5: Thank you. I really appreciate you considering the application. And I don't think I was quite

[2:02:27] Voice 5: prepared to speak. Does anybody have questions that they would like to ask?

[2:02:35] Trustee Patrick: Thank you, Zoe. Anyone have questions for Zoe?

[2:02:37] Trustee Patrick: away or I do. Zoe,

[2:02:39] Trustee McConchie: thanks so much for coming and speaking. I know it takes a lot of guts to come up

[2:02:45] Trustee McConchie: here to these meetings and stuff. So thanks for, first of all, for doing that. What were the,

[2:02:50] Trustee McConchie: what are the type of guests that come to your short-term vacation rental? What do they usually

[2:02:55] Trustee McConchie: come in a car? What type of folks do you usually cater to that visit?

[2:03:02] Voice 5: They will usually come in a

[2:03:03] Voice 5: a car we've certainly had a number of guests on bicycles we we mourn them ahead of time the

[2:03:08] Voice 5: pinner has a lot of up and down you need to be in good shape um they're they're very quiet folks

[2:03:14] Voice 5: they come here to hang out they come to go to the beaches to the art galleries you know they

[2:03:18] Voice 5: they're aware that the main house is closed and um they're just really grateful for the peace and

[2:03:24] Voice 5: quiet um you know they spend time looking at the garden they spend time going down to the beaches

[2:03:29] Voice 5: and

[2:03:31] Trustee McConchie: so and the it's quite a small uh building correct it's just a small little bunky house

[2:03:37] Trustee McConchie: um

[2:03:38] Voice 5: it's it's a one one bedroom cottage yeah or sorry one room cottage is what it is yeah

[2:03:44] Voice 5: and

[2:03:45] Trustee McConchie: i believe it's environment is it environmentally sustainable or sound there

[2:03:49] Trustee McConchie: was some environmental yeah it's

[2:03:52] Voice 5: it's it's really nice it's got a low flow shower head it's got a

[2:03:57] Voice 5: a low flush toilet all the the plantings you know have their on timers and they're they're all

[2:04:03] Voice 5: micro irrigation so yeah we tried to make it as environmentally sustainable as possible

[2:04:08] Voice 5: and the plantings are bird friendly and butterfly friendly and um yeah there's a lot of nice bird

[2:04:15] Voice 5: life going on in the area

[2:04:17] Trustee McConchie: those are all my questions i have thanks thank you

[2:04:21] Trustee Morrison: more some

[2:04:22] Trustee Morrison: questions yeah

[2:04:23] Trustee Morrison: so i i was curious because i actually think that the issue of being

[2:04:27] Trustee Morrison: raised um there is like a piece of it that's ours but i think the other piece of it is actually

[2:04:35] Trustee Morrison: um sort of building code related and i know that you had lived in the building while your building

[2:04:41] Trustee Morrison: was being built and i've been to it and had a look at it it's great building but um i guess

[2:04:47] Trustee Morrison: the question is about like um you know the the idea of having a cottage in magic lake this is

[2:04:58] Trustee Morrison: this is literally the question that we we end up with you know like accessory buildings getting

[2:05:04] Trustee Morrison: used for other kinds of cottage like reasons and high density and i'm not actually opposed to this

[2:05:10] Trustee Morrison: at all like in this particular situation it does bring to bear a question of like you know what

[2:05:16] Trustee Morrison: what does that mean for the cause that we actually have in our own SDR

[2:05:21] Trustee Morrison: bylaws about not doing this kind of thing with a secondary cabin?

[2:05:25] Trustee Morrison: And I think that's, so I don't know if my question is so much for you,

[2:05:29] Trustee Morrison: maybe it's for Ben of like, what, like,

[2:05:33] Trustee Morrison: like have we missed a mark here somehow?

[2:05:35] Trustee Morrison: I

[2:05:36] Voice 5: would say yes, we have frankly, because in terms of high density,

[2:05:40] Voice 5: this is about the lowest density you're going to find on the Island.

[2:05:43] Voice 5: There's a tiny main house. There's a tiny cottage. I mean,

[2:05:46] Voice 5: Most houses on Pender are much bigger.

[2:05:49] Voice 5: And if you look on Airbnb, you will see that mainly what's happening is people will have

[2:05:54] Voice 5: two-story houses, and people will live in the top, and they'll have guests in the bottom.

[2:05:59] Voice 5: That is, to my mind, a lot higher density.

[2:06:02] Voice 5: And I'm not against that.

[2:06:04] Voice 5: Lots of my friends do this stuff.

[2:06:06] Voice 5: But to call this cottage high density, it's completely missing the mark here.

[2:06:14] Voice 5: yeah

[2:06:14] Trustee Morrison: and i'm using density in the way that it's defining the bylaws of like actually having

[2:06:18] Trustee Morrison: multiple buildings that's what i'm using no

[2:06:21] Voice 5: the idea was it was to make the small and eco-friendly

[2:06:24] Voice 5: and um you know have our daughter and and her family come and stay there you know and they do

[2:06:31] Voice 5: part of the year and my brother and and um you know his his his wife come um so it's it's really

[2:06:36] Voice 5: nice to be able to for them to make but you know um a little breakfast for themselves up there if

[2:06:42] Voice 5: they want it's it's it's not uh yeah i i'm feeling a little indignant on the prodigy's behalf

[2:06:49] Voice 5: yeah

[2:06:50] Trustee Morrison: and it's true it's really just like the conversation ben like for it for you it's just

[2:06:54] Trustee Morrison: a question of like we've been through conversations on stvrs more generally in the in the area and

[2:06:59] Trustee Morrison: like it's a question that i have because it's it's like a broader question and in this particular

[2:07:05] Trustee Morrison: case though honestly it's not about you at all because i think that the cabin you have is awesome

[2:07:09] Trustee Morrison: And I think the way you're running it is awesome. So, you know, I would kind of like to just approve this one and think it through a little more deeply as we go forward for the STVR application sort of issue, because we're essentially telling people they can't do this in the future with the way the STVR rules are being written.

[2:07:28] Trustee Morrison: so ben yeah

[2:07:29] Trustee McConchie: well to me i mean it's the like we're it's funny like yeah this is a messed up system

[2:07:36] Trustee McConchie: because we're approving and we approved an stvr last month that had like 13 people and it was a

[2:07:41] Trustee McConchie: private home right and then here we have because of this building code thing which is well zoe's

[2:07:47] Trustee McConchie: you know proposal is basically the what you'd want you want someone living on the property

[2:07:52] Trustee McConchie: And then going, hey, welcome to Pender. You know, we don't flush the toilet. X, Y, Z. You know, the culture that exists here in the islands is a chance to connect with the local community. It's not some empty home that they rent out. It doesn't make any sense the way the accessory argument's been framed to me. For sure, it fits within the building code and there's a bunch of rules. But I mean, like, come on, like, it's not an accessory building. It's a little tiny, little eco-friendly little cottage. And it should be permitted.

[2:08:21] Trustee McConchie: permitted uh and permitted on a temporary use for three years and there you go and like i'm more

[2:08:27] Trustee McConchie: concerned about the big empty homes that we're renting out right that's going to have a way

[2:08:31] Trustee McConchie: bigger impact on density you talk about density look at storm crescent we're gonna have to discuss

[2:08:35] Trustee McConchie: but but i digress so i'd actually be

[2:08:38] Trustee McConchie: willing to go ahead and approve this temporary use permit

[2:08:40] Trustee McConchie: for up to three years which i know contradicts the staff so i don't know if staff have uh perhaps

[2:08:47] Trustee McConchie: perhaps want to rebut or have anything to add that I'm understanding.

[2:08:52] Trustee Patrick: Well, I think staff,

[2:08:53] Trustee Morrison: but before we even go to staff,

[2:08:55] Trustee Morrison: I would actually like argue that this isn't necessarily a staff strictly

[2:08:59] Trustee Morrison: because staff have taken our direction on the STVR.

[2:09:01] Trustee Morrison: And if our direction is wrong, we need to correct course.

[2:09:04] Trustee McConchie: Well, yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure.

[2:09:06] Trustee Patrick: Well, the, the,

[2:09:08] Trustee Patrick: the issue I think with the direction we made on the is having a building

[2:09:12] Trustee Patrick: that is legally constructed and has a building occupancy.

[2:09:17] Trustee Patrick: permit

[2:09:17] Trustee Morrison: that's the issue

[2:09:19] Trustee Morrison: well it does but does it still because usually when when you have an

[2:09:26] Trustee Morrison: accessory building I literally had that happen on my own property where I had an accessory building

[2:09:30] Trustee Morrison: and then when the accessory building had occupancy but then if I had built my house separate from the

[2:09:36] Trustee Morrison: accessory building when the new building got occupancy that I would have lost occupancy on

[2:09:41] Trustee Morrison: the first building because the land use bylaws say you can only have one building that has occupancy

[2:09:45] Trustee Morrison: well

[2:09:45] Voice 5: in 2017 in order to get the temporary use permit we had to undertake a fairly costly

[2:09:51] Voice 5: retrofitting with earthquake um you know um stuff chris watson was here he came and inspected he

[2:09:59] Voice 5: said this is what you have to do we did it

[2:10:01] Voice 5: he signed off in 2017 that actually has it's a legal

[2:10:05] Voice 5: dwelling in okay with an occupancy yeah

[2:10:08] Trustee Morrison: then i i vote we just go ahead and approve because it's a

[2:10:11] Trustee Morrison: a legal dwelling can

[2:10:12] Trustee Patrick: i look to staff i think just

[2:10:14] Planner Stockdill: to clarify it may be legal in the terms of the bc

[2:10:17] Planner Stockdill: building code is not legal in the terms of the north pender land use bylaw the rural residential

[2:10:23] Planner Stockdill: zone states that this property is only permitted one dwelling unit a cottage

[2:10:28] Planner Stockdill: is not permitted a

[2:10:29] Planner Stockdill: cottage is permitted in the rural residential zone when the property is greater than 1.2 hectares

[2:10:34] Planner Stockdill: so it is deemed an accessory building even though there may be a illegal non-compliant kitchen

[2:10:40] Planner Stockdill: living quarters in it so

[2:10:43] Trustee Morrison: how did chris watson give an occupation occupy uh like a legal occupancy

[2:10:47] Trustee Morrison: permit on something that he can't do given our

[2:10:50] Voice 5: um you know we went through so many hoops and so

[2:10:55] Voice 5: many steps at this point um i can i can hardly tell you what happened we went we went to victoria

[2:11:01] Voice 5: who who is the the head of the crd there dave how um no no i'm sorry it is in terms of building

[2:11:08] Voice 5: i'm just retired

[2:11:09] Voice 5: now yeah yeah um we we went to see him um he talked to um a builder friend who

[2:11:16] Voice 5: was familiar with the cottage um it just all unfolded we just we kept doing all the legal

[2:11:21] Voice 5: things that we were supposed to do perhaps

[2:11:24] Planner Stockdill: the occupancy occupancy permit was per uh issued

[2:11:28] Planner Stockdill: because that was actually the first dwelling unit on the property is it's perhaps what happened i

[2:11:33] Planner Stockdill: I

[2:11:34] Voice 5: can't tell you it was it was an incredibly complicated process but we followed every

[2:11:39] Voice 5: single legal thing and you know it was it was not it was not inexpensive what we did up there

[2:11:44] Voice 5: I see Phil Testamon sorry

[2:11:46] Voice 14: I can just weigh in so you are allowed to occupy an accessory building

[2:11:50] Voice 14: on a temporary basis in the bylaw

[2:11:52] Voice 9: but

[2:11:53] Voice 14: the provision is is that so when you're constructing

[2:11:56] Voice 14: your principal residence so but the provision states clearly that the condition is is that upon

[2:12:02] Voice 14: upon final occupancy of your principal dwelling

[2:12:06] Voice 14: that you need to render the accessory building

[2:12:10] Voice 14: uninhabitable, i.e. by removing the kitchen

[2:12:12] Voice 14: and then ceasing to use.

[2:12:15] Voice 14: So that's the way that,

[2:12:17] Voice 14: cause I, sorry, I should clarify

[2:12:19] Voice 14: that I was involved in this application initially

[2:12:23] Voice 14: when back with the initial application.

[2:12:25] Voice 14: So that's my recollection

[2:12:27] Voice 14: and that is the provision and the bylaw

[2:12:29] Voice 14: that I think has been, that's occurred here.

[2:12:32] Voice 14: Well,

[2:12:32] Voice 5: we did decommission the place for a few years, and then we went through all the legal steps to get it going appropriately.

[2:12:41] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, that's the part that I'm unclear about. And I'm hearing

[2:12:44] Trustee Morrison: what both Phil and Kim are saying. I understand the bylaws super clearly on that issue. I also hear what Zoe is saying about going through the building, and I'm wondering where that's landed in between. So I don't know what the step is here, Ben.

[2:13:01] Trustee Morrison: Well,

[2:13:01] Trustee McConchie: I mean, I'd like to approve the temporary use permit for three years and then address the fact that we should allow for cottages and changes to land use bylaw.

[2:13:10] Trustee McConchie: Like, I mean, we've got an affordable housing crisis, right, happening, and we need to think of creative ways of housing people.

[2:13:18] Trustee McConchie: So, I mean, the bylaw is out of date as far as I'm concerned.

[2:13:21] Trustee McConchie: It needs to be addressed.

[2:13:21] Trustee McConchie: So perhaps approving this will, you know, force us to confront the issues with this problematic bylaw.

[2:13:35] Trustee McConchie: So I would like to go ahead and approve the temporary use permit that I'd like to make a motion that the North Bender Island Local Trust Committee approve issuance of proposed temporary use permit MPTUP 2021, which is Landale, for up to three years.

[2:13:49] Trustee McConchie: uh

[2:13:50] Trustee Patrick: before you second that motion did um there there was the other issue regarding limiting

[2:13:58] Trustee Patrick: you know did you want to add the clause of limiting the summer to make it consistent with

[2:14:01] Trustee Patrick: the new guidelines and that's on page um 40 of the agenda package yeah

[2:14:07] Trustee McConchie: there's an alternative

[2:14:08] Trustee Patrick: yeah so there's

[2:14:09] Trustee Patrick: a there's language there to add add that excuse

[2:14:15] Trustee McConchie: me yeah um

[2:14:23] Trustee McConchie: um well the the bylaw 222 we haven't finalized that so it should it should reflect the correct

[2:14:31] Trustee McConchie: we should reflect the bylaw that we're proposing right

[2:14:33] Trustee Patrick: well it's it's been your past third reading

[2:14:38] Trustee Patrick: so it's um um you're waiting to adopt um and this is just a clause being moved over from that

[2:14:48] Trustee Patrick: that those guidelines that makes it consistent with our new bylaws okay

[2:14:54] Voice 9: okay

[2:14:57] Trustee Morrison: so do we want to

[2:14:58] Trustee Morrison: go ahead and so i just don't want to get in the middle of the thing you just put on the table

[2:15:03] Trustee Morrison: then so it hasn't been

[2:15:04] Trustee Patrick: seconded okay so you could either amend the this is amending this motion

[2:15:09] Trustee Patrick: would amend the temporary use permit and then there would be uh trustee mcconkie's motion to

[2:15:15] Trustee Patrick: to approve it.

[2:15:19] Voice 5: With respect, I'm going to ask that you make,

[2:15:22] Voice 5: please don't apply a law to me that actually isn't a lawyer.

[2:15:27] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, these are all cases that we've been applying

[2:15:31] Trustee Morrison: to STPR applications pretty consistently

[2:15:35] Trustee Morrison: across the renewals, just to bring everything in line

[2:15:39] Trustee Morrison: as sort of phases into the actual lobbying approved.

[2:15:45] Trustee Morrison: Ben, do you want to do the amendment

[2:15:47] Trustee Morrison: or do you have any comments on the amendment

[2:15:49] Trustee Morrison: before we put that motion on the table

[2:15:51] Trustee McConchie: are you talking about the amendment in the number one

[2:15:53] Trustee McConchie: which is the alternative yeah so that the maximum number of days of the short-term vacation rental

[2:15:57] Trustee McConchie: may be in use from may 1st to september 30th and a calendar day of a total of x number of days

[2:16:03] Trustee McConchie: right that part yeah

[2:16:04] Trustee Morrison: and the reason i'm asking for this before we put it on the table is because

[2:16:08] Trustee Morrison: this type of amendment applies to a different situation i think than what i'm seeing here

[2:16:13] Trustee Morrison: because what i'm seeing here is uh accessory building use not uh full residence use and it's

[2:16:22] Trustee Morrison: not an accessory building that could be used for living like full year living which is one of the

[2:16:27] Trustee Morrison: the issues like we it one of the reasons that we were doing we did this was water restrictions like

[2:16:34] Trustee Morrison: so that we are not using all our summer water on visitors but that applies much more when you have

[2:16:38] Trustee Morrison: have a whole building, like most of the temporary use permits in Magic Lake. In this situation where

[2:16:44] Trustee Morrison: it's one room, I'm not sure that this is as critical. So do you want to add the amendment or

[2:16:49] Trustee Morrison: not? I don't

[2:16:50] Trustee McConchie: believe we need to add the amendment. It's a cottage

[2:16:53] Trustee McConchie: of low impact. I mean, this is a

[2:16:55] Trustee McConchie: really unusual circumstance, right? This is not like all

[2:16:57] Trustee McConchie: the other STVRs. This is actually what

[2:17:00] Trustee McConchie: I would call ahead of its time STVR. And I would hope in the future that this is a way that it's

[2:17:05] Trustee McConchie: done and that we slowly phase out the renting of all these giant homes and we have more more

[2:17:10] Trustee McConchie: stvrs like zoe's proposing so whatever whatever the wording is like i want to approve this stvr

[2:17:17] Trustee McConchie: for three years i want to let zoe the applicant i'll say uh run their stvr as a model example of

[2:17:24] Trustee McConchie: how to run an stvr so i don't want to put on unnecessary limits on her

[2:17:27] Trustee Morrison: okay then i'm going

[2:17:29] Trustee Morrison: to go ahead and second the motion ben put on the table already all

[2:17:32] Trustee Patrick: right um shannon have you got

[2:17:34] Trustee Patrick: that motion that we had that trustee mcconkie and

[2:17:38] Voice 18: local trust committee approved issues where

[2:17:40] Voice 18: you use permit nptup 2021.1 landau for a period of three years thank

[2:17:46] Trustee Morrison: you all

[2:17:47] Trustee Patrick: right trustees any

[2:17:48] Trustee Patrick: discussion on this motion i

[2:17:51] Trustee Morrison: i just agree i think this is an unusual situation it's well run it's

[2:17:55] Trustee Morrison: not it's low impact like this is a good example of what can be done and it's not taking stock

[2:18:01] Trustee Morrison: from affordable housing it's just not a full-time housing unit yeah

[2:18:05] Trustee McConchie: and and i remember talking to

[2:18:07] Trustee McConchie: garney about this in the office um and he thought this through very well and uh like i say this this

[2:18:15] Trustee McConchie: would be a great um example to show islanders how to how to properly run this from an ecological

[2:18:21] Trustee McConchie: perspective from a community building perspective zoe you live on the property you're there

[2:18:26] Trustee McConchie: they're connected with people, and also this idea of properly utilizing these small, tiny home

[2:18:32] Trustee McConchie: accessory building, whatever you want to call them, things that benefit the community in some

[2:18:36] Trustee McConchie: ways. So I commend you, Zoe, and of course, in honor of Garnie's memory, this well-thought-out

[2:18:45] Trustee McConchie: application.

[2:18:46] Trustee Patrick: I'll just, I mean, my only comment is moving forward is to be aware of the Magic

[2:18:51] Trustee Patrick: Lake area and the water district and all of that. There'll be other players that are going to have

[2:18:54] Trustee Patrick: have opinions of of how these units are are used i mean this is a

[2:18:58] Trustee Patrick: one-off but we have to be careful

[2:19:00] Trustee Patrick: that you know where the next phase is going well

[2:19:03] Trustee McConchie: i look forward to that discussion all

[2:19:06] Trustee Patrick: right then

[2:19:07] Trustee Patrick: any further discussion i'll call the vote uh all those in favor and that is carried so thank you

[2:19:15] Trustee Patrick: zoe for joining us today can we

[2:19:18] Trustee McConchie: take a bathroom break chair patrick yes

[2:19:19] Trustee Patrick: we may thanks zoe for

[2:19:21] Trustee Patrick: for being here thank you

[2:19:22] Voice 6: so much five minutes five minute

[2:19:25] Trustee Patrick: break folks 11 25 okay thank you

[2:19:30] Voice 9: all

[2:24:26] Trustee Patrick: right everybody back i so sorry don't see ben there he is

[2:24:51] Trustee Patrick: all right are we ready to proceed

[2:24:56] Trustee Patrick: excellent okay so we have uh can everybody hear me okay good uh 13.3 it's a temporary use permit

[2:25:05] Trustee Patrick: permit for Pettifor on page 64.

[2:25:11] Voice 14: So Chair Patrick.

[2:25:12] Voice 14: Yes.

[2:25:13] Voice 14: So TUP 2021.2, this is a renewal temporary use permit.

[2:25:20] Voice 14: So renewal, sorry, located at 1601 Storm Crescent

[2:25:25] Voice 14: on North Pender.

[2:25:27] Voice 14: So the original TUP was issued in 2018

[2:25:32] Voice 14: for a period of three years.

[2:25:33] Voice 14: and the subject property was the primary residence of the owner until health sorry health issues

[2:25:42] Voice 14: required that she move off the island prior to the application in 2018 and the applicant is

[2:25:48] Voice 14: Robin Pettifer is her son who manages the STVR and also uses the house with their family

[2:25:55] Voice 14: in addition to the STVR. And the purpose or the rationale for the continuance of the TUP

[2:26:04] Voice 14: is to offset the owner's property, living and medical costs. So the house is four bedrooms

[2:26:11] Voice 14: in size and the TUP that was issued regulates a maximum guest capacity of seven people.

[2:26:20] Voice 14: however the applicant has indicated that they only actually rent to a maximum of five people.

[2:26:32] Voice 14: So there's two other permitted STVRs in close proximity to this one. They're shown on the map

[2:26:38] Voice 14: which is on page 20, sorry 66 of the agenda package. Both of those are is known as O'Malley

[2:26:48] Voice 14: and I believe Hepburn and they're on schooner schooner way which has a

[2:26:54] Voice 14: cul-de-sac just to the north of this so the applicant as with all renewal

[2:27:03] Voice 14: applications was requested to confirm that they adhere to all the permit

[2:27:07] Voice 14: conditions over the last three years and that does include providing information

[2:27:12] Voice 14: on the Douglas sorry coastal Douglas for ecosystems to their renters and they

[2:27:17] Voice 14: They have, or Robin has replied that they have complied with all of those requirements

[2:27:22] Voice 14: in the existing TUP, and there have been no bylaw complaints about the use in the last

[2:27:30] Voice 14: three years.

[2:27:31] Voice 14: So the recommendation is that the North Pendera Island Local Trust Committee approve issuance

[2:27:37] Voice 14: of temporary use permit, sorry, renewal temporary use permit NP-TUP 2021.2 Pettifer for a period

[2:27:46] Voice 14: of three years.

[2:27:47] Voice 14: and that rationale for the recommendation is that a three-year period is consistent with

[2:27:52] Voice 14: the most recent renewal application for an stvr use which was croaker or sorry creaker

[2:27:59] Voice 14: there have been no complaints about the stvr since it was issued in 2018 the guest capacity is modest

[2:28:06] Voice 14: at seven and the applicant further limits the maximum the rental to a maximum of five people

[2:28:11] Voice 14: and the application meets the current tup guidelines of the ocp and finally that it

[2:28:18] Voice 14: provides conditions to ensure that the use does not have an unreasonable impact on the local area

[2:28:22] Voice 14: and in the event that it does there's the ability to enforce compliance with the tup and that's my

[2:28:30] Voice 14: summary is

[2:28:32] Trustee Patrick: the applicant here i believe so yeah

[2:28:35] Voice 14: yes

[2:28:37] Voice 16: um robin is here um he has called in on the

[2:28:42] Voice 16: the phone and so um i can enable him to speak if you'd like chair patrick uh

[2:28:47] Trustee Patrick: sure please do

[2:28:50] Voice 16: robin so if you want to unmute yourself it's star six i think

[2:29:04] Trustee Patrick: uh robin if you're hearing us star

[2:29:07] Trustee Patrick: six on your phone should unmute i'm not uh we're not getting uh the phone unmuted for robin

[2:29:27] Voice 16: yeah i've asked him to unmute and uh he sent me an email saying he is here

[2:29:32] Trustee Patrick: on

[2:29:33] Voice 16: the phone all

[2:29:37] Trustee Patrick: right trustees what would you like to do do you want to talk to the applicant

[2:29:44] Trustee Patrick: so i guess the applicant again star six if you can hear us

[2:29:54] Voice 16: so robin's just emailed me saying he did press star six but it isn't working so i could ask him

[2:30:00] Voice 16: Would you like me to ask him something through email, perhaps, and I could refer that out?

[2:30:04] Trustee Patrick: Sure, I guess if that, trustees, do you want to try communicating via email through Maple?

[2:30:08] Trustee Patrick: Thank you, Maple, for offering.

[2:30:10] Trustee Morrison: I'm just wondering if we just want to go ahead and talk through the

[2:30:13] Trustee Morrison: application and see if we have questions.

[2:30:15] Trustee Patrick: Okay, that would be fine.

[2:30:16] Trustee Patrick: All right, so go ahead, trustees, questions.

[2:30:20] Trustee Morrison: Ben, do you want to go ahead?

[2:30:21] Trustee McConchie: Well, I'm just, I'm noticing, okay, great.

[2:30:23] Trustee McConchie: Two concerns I have about this application that I want to discuss

[2:30:28] Trustee McConchie: with you, Trustee Morrison and Chair Patrick. The first concern is the densification

[2:30:32] Trustee McConchie: of this area with STBRs. And then the second

[2:30:36] Trustee McConchie: issue is that on the list of

[2:30:39] Trustee McConchie: welcome to our place, number one is slippers and then

[2:30:44] Trustee McConchie: first aid. It should be number one, water scarcity. Because I'd like to know

[2:30:48] Trustee McConchie: how much water these TUP

[2:30:52] Trustee McConchie: P uh we're granting you know how what is the water usage and water consumption um i i just i i also

[2:31:00] Trustee McConchie: wanted to just let the applicant know like there should be more of an emphasis on the environmental

[2:31:04] Trustee McConchie: cultural values of the island um so more emphasis on uh preserving water more emphasis on um you

[2:31:11] Trustee McConchie: know limiting um human act activities and with regards to you know um bringing too many cars

[2:31:21] Trustee McConchie: cars over if you're going to rent the short-term vacation rental. So maybe come carpool,

[2:31:26] Trustee McConchie: you know, these types of things should be emphasized. Those are my main concerns.

[2:31:34] Trustee Morrison: Tristan Morrison. Yeah. Sorry. I don't know. I'm never sure if I'm unmuted or not.

[2:31:40] Trustee Morrison: Yeah. So I have a similar set of concerns. I would extend that to

[2:31:46] Trustee Morrison: um the way that like there's nothing here that says you're in the trust area like

[2:31:55] Trustee Morrison: um there's it there's just an awareness kind of raising that can be included and there's

[2:32:04] Trustee Morrison: been some really stellar examples in some of the tups that we've seen um and i kind of

[2:32:11] Trustee Morrison: really if we're going to offer tups in this way i really want that kind of awareness

[2:32:16] Trustee Morrison: in the packages um so i'm wondering about like where we can and can't say this what we can and

[2:32:24] Trustee Morrison: can't do around this i feel as a tup renewal it's subject to the existing conditions but i i would

[2:32:31] Trustee Morrison: just like to see more depth and materials about like that it's consistent with the allen's trust

[2:32:37] Trustee Morrison: being a protect and preserve area you know that kind of thing i don't know um

[2:32:42] Voice 14: you could um request

[2:32:44] Voice 14: request the applicant improve that. And of course, staff could provide them with the examples that

[2:32:49] Voice 14: you're speaking to in order to do that. So it is unfortunate that he's not present.

[2:32:55] Voice 14: Yeah. So

[2:32:56] Trustee Morrison: I would say that would be, I would want that. I would want to see that because we have

[2:33:00] Trustee Morrison: seen some really great examples and I know Phil, we've like flagged them as they've flown by.

[2:33:04] Trustee Morrison: So there's just been some really great examples. And so I would like to see that because I'd like

[2:33:11] Trustee Morrison: to be sure that the information trustee or that visitors are getting is that in terms of the

[2:33:17] Trustee Morrison: permit itself then I was trying to remember what you said related to the the

[2:33:23] Trustee McConchie: densification of that

[2:33:24] Trustee McConchie: oh

[2:33:25] Trustee Morrison: yeah thank you thank you so I have a concern about that too and and as we sort of work through

[2:33:31] Trustee Morrison: the renewal of different applications in that region we kind of have to think about like which

[2:33:36] Trustee Morrison: ones and which ones not one thing i liked about this one in the sense of that density issue is

[2:33:41] Trustee Morrison: that the there was off-street parking the big concern i have um and i feel this might just be

[2:33:47] Trustee Morrison: because it's renewal if i'm clear like we don't have letters of support from neighbors we don't

[2:33:53] Trustee Morrison: have letters

[2:33:53] Voice 14: yeah so there's no notification required for a renewal but just to speak to

[2:33:59] Voice 14: maybe just i'm just going to interject here on a densification so as you've kind of noted it

[2:34:04] Voice 14: There's no, we haven't had new ones come up with the exception of a new renewal for Hepburn in this area. So what you're looking at is what's been there for at least three years. So, and noting that we have not had any bylaw complaints from any of these in the last three years.

[2:34:24] Voice 14: And further noting that, I mean, I should emphasize that they only allow five guests, so as opposed

[2:34:32] Voice 14: to 11, I believe, or 10, which is the creaker, or I believe it

[2:34:39] Voice 14: was 10 or 11, so yeah.

[2:34:40] Voice 14: So

[2:34:41] Trustee Morrison: I would actually like to see this permit back next month with two different things. I would like to see a better package that clearly expresses the trust area criteria and emphasizes like environmental protection on the front end of the materials going to participants.

[2:34:58] Trustee Morrison: And I would also, I would like to see some support letters from neighbors, like you can go as a person if you have good relationships with your neighbors and like actually ask for support letters like the last applicant did.

[2:35:08] Trustee Morrison: And that helps us not just say okay nobody complained because there's a complaint related issue like we can't do everything by complaint driven. And if you're asking permission from the community I feel like you should just get support letters.

[2:35:25] Trustee Morrison: Thoughts.

[2:35:25] Trustee Morrison: yeah

[2:35:26] Trustee McConchie: so um then basically that's alternative number two in the staff report which is that

[2:35:30] Trustee McConchie: the north pender island local trust committee requests that the applicant for renewal application

[2:35:33] Trustee McConchie: submit to the islands trust the following which would be a new um application uh package which

[2:35:40] Trustee McConchie: would or sorry a new um visitor package visitor package that reflects some of the and and the

[2:35:48] Trustee McConchie: staff can give the examples that we've seen which are should be the standard and maybe staff can

[2:35:55] Trustee McConchie: from now on encourage folks to um i don't know if we need to create a policy i mean you can just say

[2:36:01] Trustee McConchie: hey like do the requirements the way it's been done by successful applicants and

[2:36:08] Trustee Morrison: then the second

[2:36:09] Trustee Morrison: thing would be for them to well i'm having a day sorry support

[2:36:15] Trustee Patrick: letters you said thank you

[2:36:16] Trustee Patrick: to

[2:36:16] Trustee Morrison: you know gain some communications from their neighbors about how yeah

[2:36:22] Trustee McConchie: i i the the fact that

[2:36:24] Trustee McConchie: they're not notified concerns me because i do i have spoken to just i mean anecdotally some folks

[2:36:30] Trustee McConchie: in that neighborhood

[2:36:31] Voice 9: because

[2:36:32] Trustee McConchie: i used to live in that neighborhood i had a rental there and you

[2:36:35] Trustee McConchie: know they were just like it's it's turning into hotel lane you know so it would be great if the

[2:36:41] Trustee McConchie: applicant could um you know submit some letters of support talk to the neighborhood just make

[2:36:47] Trustee McConchie: sure that we're not changing the shape of the neighborhood with each additional

[2:36:53] Trustee McConchie: tup in that area all

[2:36:56] Trustee Patrick: right so who would like to make this um motion then did you catch it

[2:37:01] Voice 5: that

[2:37:05] Voice 18: the north pender island local trust committee requested the applicant for renewal application

[2:37:10] Voice 18: mptup 2021.2 submit to the islands trust the following one new visitor package two letters

[2:37:18] Voice 18: of support from

[2:37:19] Trustee Morrison: neighbors i think that captures it and then let

[2:37:21] Trustee Morrison: staff know what we're talking

[2:37:22] Trustee Morrison: about so i'll make that motion so

[2:37:24] Voice 16: oh sorry to interrupt sorry to interrupt um uh robin just

[2:37:27] Voice 16: called me on the phone here and um he's unable to call in and as well as um of course join in

[2:37:32] Voice 16: the computer but he did want to make a comment to you guys um he just uh i've just suggested he

[2:37:37] Voice 16: he should email me before anything else is possibly made because he didn't get a chance

[2:37:42] Voice 16: to speak to you so

[2:37:45] Trustee Patrick: so did he hear the motion that we have on the floor right now we're just

[2:37:49] Trustee Patrick: asking for some more

[2:37:50] Trustee Patrick: information before approving the motion no

[2:37:53] Voice 16: i have to um oh you did you type

[2:37:56] Voice 16: that out already shannon are you able to just send it to me in the chat quickly and i could just

[2:38:01] Voice 16: i missed that well

[2:38:02] Trustee Patrick: except he doesn't get to we don't have um i think we'll just have to inform

[2:38:07] Trustee Patrick: form him of this motion at this point we're just requesting

[2:38:09] Trustee McConchie: more information if it's going to sway

[2:38:11] Trustee McConchie: my decision on this

[2:38:12] Trustee McConchie: particular motion whatever yeah

[2:38:14] Voice 16: i understand i'm just yeah

[2:38:15] Trustee McConchie: yeah

[2:38:18] Voice 16: so um the

[2:38:19] Voice 16: one moment i'll just be right back sorry just one moment please all

[2:38:24] Voice 5: right thanks trying

[2:38:58] Voice 16: to put him

[2:38:59] Voice 16: through on speaker right now if you guys can hear him go ahead robin yes

[2:39:09] Trustee Patrick: they

[2:39:14] Voice 16: said yes no

[2:39:35] Trustee Patrick: i i don't

[2:39:36] Trustee Patrick: I don't think we have any additional questions,

[2:39:38] Trustee Patrick: staff or trustees at this time,

[2:39:39] Trustee Patrick: other than we're going to ask for some more information

[2:39:42] Trustee Patrick: and that's about to happen.

[2:39:45] Trustee Patrick: So with that, then just stand by.

[2:39:47] Trustee Patrick: So I'll look to the trustees.

[2:39:48] Trustee Patrick: Any further comments on the motion?

[2:39:50] Trustee Patrick: Chair

[2:39:58] Trustee Morrison: Patrick, I-

[2:40:00] Trustee Morrison: Okay,

[2:40:00] Trustee Patrick: Rob, just, yeah, no, I was going to say,

[2:40:03] Trustee Patrick: we don't just, thank you, Maple.

[2:40:05] Trustee Patrick: We're just going to make the motion and he'll inform him.

[2:40:09] Trustee Patrick: So, okay, any further discussion?

[2:40:11] Trustee Patrick: Just

[2:40:12] Trustee McConchie: so we get back on track, just briefly, it's like we're just asking for a more standardized approach to how we inform folks that come to the STVRs, that it emphasizes the environment.

[2:40:27] Trustee McConchie: There are some previous STVRs applications that were very, very reflective of the values of the preserve and protect mandate.

[2:40:35] Trustee McConchie: Andy. So I and also, we just want to ensure that the that neighbors have been properly consulted.

[2:40:41] Trustee McConchie: So any effort to consult the neighbors and get letters of support would definitely help with

[2:40:48] Trustee McConchie: the approval of the temporary use when it's brought up at next month's meeting. All right,

[2:40:54] Trustee Patrick: then I'm going to call the vote then all those in favor. And that's carried. So sorry, Robin,

[2:41:00] Trustee Patrick: that we had difficulty communicating with you during the meeting. And but I think

[2:41:04] Trustee Patrick: this was a good path forward so all right uh with that we're moving on to a 14.1 which is

[2:41:15] Trustee Patrick: the groundwater coastal douglas for ecosystem project staff report on page 76 and who's making

[2:41:22] Trustee Patrick: that report i'm

[2:41:23] Voice 3: going to make that one narissa couldn't be here today and william is here as well

[2:41:27] Voice 3: um if you can maybe answer questions or make comments later on but essentially the last

[2:41:32] Voice 3: Last meeting, this is involving the groundwater project.

[2:41:35] Voice 3: So the last meeting,

[2:41:37] Voice 3: the local trust committee passed a resolution

[2:41:39] Voice 3: asking staff to come back with suggestions

[2:41:41] Voice 3: about how to combine it with Coastal Douglas

[2:41:45] Voice 3: for ecosystem protection.

[2:41:48] Voice 3: And so NRS has kind of put together some options

[2:41:50] Voice 3: in the staff report.

[2:41:52] Voice 3: The first two options are do comprehensive projects,

[2:41:56] Voice 3: do a comprehensive project on one or the other,

[2:41:59] Voice 3: essentially like stick with the groundwater project,

[2:42:01] Voice 3: do a comprehensive project on that and um you can try and get that done within the other element is

[2:42:09] Voice 3: the the variable i guess is timeline try and get that done in a year and a half second option is

[2:42:14] Voice 3: shift the focus to the coastal douglas fir ecosystem get a comprehensive project on that

[2:42:19] Voice 3: done in a year and a half the third option is to do a sort of really comprehensive integrated

[2:42:27] Voice 3: a more integrated approach to addressing both issues that's going to take longer it's going to be more involved and the fourth option is to focus on critical areas critical areas, both in terms of groundwater and coastal Douglas for ecosystem protection and try

[2:42:45] Voice 3: and get that done in a shorter timeline.

[2:42:47] Voice 3: line so those are the four options that are um suggested for the local trust committee to

[2:42:54] Voice 3: consider adjusting this project to include potentially include the coastal ducos for

[2:42:59] Voice 3: ecosystem protection element now william if there's anything you wanted to add as well

[2:43:04] Voice 3: uh

[2:43:08] Voice 11: yeah through the chair um yeah i think that narissa has laid it out um appropriately i have

[2:43:16] Voice 11: I don't have my own opinions on what would be the best approach.

[2:43:20] Voice 11: I'm interested to hear from the LTC so I'm open to handling questions.

[2:43:28] Voice 11: I think just a good place to look on this report it or stuff report is to look at table one, and the timelines, and the third and fourth option are getting closer over the.

[2:43:47] Voice 11: So by undertaking the groundwater sustainability strategy as was proposed, or looking at the CDF, those are likely to finish in this term, where the more comprehensive integrated approach would be overlapping terms.

[2:44:07] Voice 11: terms. And one other element I would want to say on this is that, and we had this discussion at the

[2:44:17] Voice 11: Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee meeting where there is a conversation about integrating

[2:44:23] Voice 11: watershed protection with Coastal Douglas fir protection. And I think some of my statements

[2:44:31] Voice 11: there relate also to this, that for groundwater regions, there's really two different types.

[2:44:39] Voice 11: there is these, there's basin type groundwater regions and non-basin type. And non-basin type

[2:44:45] Voice 11: are like near the edges of the island where there's not many wells that are below, like say

[2:44:54] Voice 11: cliff sides or non-watershed, like non-lake or stream containing areas that have really important

[2:45:04] Voice 11: colson douglas fir ecosystems associated with them um and and rare gary oak ecosystems and

[2:45:13] Voice 11: i i just fear that when they get combined out that those sensitive areas of the forest get

[2:45:20] Voice 11: averaged out by taking a more focus on water resources rather than forest resources even

[2:45:28] Voice 11: Even though they're really integrated where they do intersect, often there's some really beautiful forests that are located in areas that don't have great water resources.

[2:45:40] Voice 11: So if the focus is to protect water resources, I have a concern that there are some really important forest ecosystems that might be not as critical in that methodology.

[2:45:56] Voice 11: so I just wanted to put that forward so I'm open for questions thank you chair all

[2:46:02] Trustee Patrick: right I just

[2:46:02] Trustee Patrick: before we get going I just want to be clear that our motion was consideration of the coastal

[2:46:07] Trustee Patrick: Douglas fir not the combination of the two projects together it was my understanding so

[2:46:13] Trustee Patrick: just want to be clear in the context of our conversation here so who'd like to go first

[2:46:20] Trustee Morrison: I have a couple questions if that's okay so William I have a question about I need you to

[2:46:31] Trustee Morrison: be clear I think about like what is your concern about water like which would you recommend going

[2:46:41] Trustee Morrison: with is it the water because you're a water guy or is it forest because you think forests are going

[2:46:45] Trustee Morrison: like from what you just said it sounded like you're leaning toward coastal Douglas fir to

[2:46:49] Trustee Morrison: ensure certain forests are protected that might not be protected inside water regions. So I need

[2:46:54] Trustee Morrison: clarity on what your recommendation is there and why.

[2:46:59] Voice 11: Okay, sure. I think they're two different

[2:47:01] Voice 11: projects. And I think that when we look at land use planning, it's like a GIS. There's different

[2:47:08] Voice 11: layers that need to be considered. And there is a methodology called common risk segment mapping,

[2:47:18] Voice 11: where you can look at many different risks and put them together

[2:47:22] Voice 11: and identify a risk of, say, a certain land use practice or application.

[2:47:30] Voice 11: When we're looking at these more regional studies,

[2:47:32] Voice 11: it's more looking at the elements of the landscape or the resources

[2:47:37] Voice 11: rather than the impact of a particular land use application.

[2:47:43] Voice 11: application so um overall if you look at the entire island basin forest forest ecosystems

[2:47:52] Voice 11: watershed ecosystems and groundwater regions and aquifers are all integrated and so they need to

[2:47:59] Voice 11: be protected and so so that's just the 20 000 foot level but then going down it like looking at the

[2:48:08] Voice 11: salt spring island um projects um the cdf is really focused on continuous for contiguous

[2:48:16] Voice 11: forests which is great and big trees which is really amazing and we really need to protect those

[2:48:21] Voice 11: and just from the mapping of those there's a lot in these non-basin type watersheds and and so

[2:48:29] Voice 11: indeed those need to be protected um and they need to be addressed and it might take a different

[2:48:35] Voice 11: methodology to look at those types of ecosystems than looking at watershed protection for drinking

[2:48:43] Voice 11: water or groundwater recharge protection for drinking water. However, where they intersect,

[2:48:49] Voice 11: where there's a high potential for groundwater recharge and there's say marginal water balance,

[2:48:56] Voice 11: so there's some sensitive groundwater regions, the CDF within those regions is really critical.

[2:49:06] Voice 11: So the, the identification of those areas are two separate projects, but where they like overlap and intersect, that's where like those, those are the most critical areas on the island that we need to protect. Right.

[2:49:21] Voice 11: Right. So I think continue to go to continue down the road of looking at the groundwater potential and the groundwater regions and identifying the critical areas like Robert was describing is is I think we should continue down that road.

[2:49:40] Voice 11: road um and as chair patrick said consideration of cdf um should happen but i think that uh where

[2:49:49] Voice 11: um where narissa says in number four here an integrated approach does not have to be fully

[2:49:56] Voice 11: comprehensive and and i i really enjoyed that statement because we don't have to make this

[2:50:04] Voice 11: into one behemoth project i just

[2:50:07] Voice 11: find that really like difficult to to even manage um but but but

[2:50:13] Voice 11: understanding where there's key areas where they line up i mean that's that's a good opportunity

[2:50:20] Voice 11: to identify the most vulnerable um areas on on the island and so my concern is just not having

[2:50:28] Voice 11: the staff time to undertake a kind of a new approach to these projects rather than just

[2:50:33] Voice 11: just continuing on. I'm not too sure where the CDF project is. So, I mean, I'm not totally

[2:50:40] Voice 11: involved with that.

[2:50:42] Trustee Morrison: Yeah. So maybe I can name my concern and that will help try and figure out what

[2:50:47] Trustee Morrison: the way forward is on this decision. But so my concern is that we are siloed in the way that

[2:50:55] Trustee Morrison: we're doing projects. And this has been named before that, you know, and I totally understand

[2:51:00] Trustee Morrison: understand what you're saying you know background and geography totally get layers on a GIS system

[2:51:04] Trustee Morrison: so and and do think that like having that finite project for the the water layer is important on

[2:51:13] Trustee Morrison: in its own right the challenge we're facing is that our water project got sucked up in the

[2:51:21] Trustee Morrison: southern gulf island water project and we are two years into something and still don't have bylaws

[2:51:25] Trustee Morrison: is in place so that's a challenge for us because i can't take another four years to get the coastal

[2:51:31] Trustee Morrison: douglas for a kid in i can't do that because like we won't have any left on pender right so i'm i'm

[2:51:38] Trustee Morrison: concerned about and this is not to you william necessarily it's just a statement i'm concerned

[2:51:43] Trustee Morrison: about how and it's hopefully that'll work itself through with all of the reorganization of regional

[2:51:49] Trustee Morrison: planning we'll have a coastal douglas for a toolkit i'll have a model bylaw i'm like check

[2:51:53] Trustee Morrison: two months later and let's do that you know but like that doesn't seem to be the way things are

[2:51:58] Trustee Morrison: working and yet we're losing forest on pender so and i don't want to give up either so there we are

[2:52:03] Trustee Morrison: you know and i understand the resourcing problem completely understand it so um

[2:52:11] Trustee Morrison: ben do you have a direction that you want to go here thoughts uh

[2:52:16] Trustee McConchie: yeah well i appreciate your

[2:52:17] Trustee McConchie: passion on this trustee morrison and thanks william for your uh as usual detailed analysis

[2:52:22] Trustee McConchie: of this and thanks for giving us different options to try and save the world i mean like okay so i'm

[2:52:27] Trustee McConchie: not the smartest person about this particular stuff so help me if my questions are kind of

[2:52:32] Trustee McConchie: rudimentary i apologize so what what is the climate change uh models state about the future

[2:52:39] Trustee McConchie: of the coastal douglas fir ecosystem like in in 30 years what's happening do you know anything

[2:52:45] Trustee McConchie: about this chair patrick or can someone speak to this i guess when i guess what i'm wondering is

[2:52:49] Trustee McConchie: like 30 years from now what do we wish we had studied is it studying mapping uh an ecosystem

[2:52:55] Trustee McConchie: that's on its way out the door or is it survival which is like water right yeah

[2:53:01] Trustee Patrick: it's gonna be water

[2:53:02] Trustee Patrick: i

[2:53:02] Trustee McConchie: think it's gonna be

[2:53:03] Trustee Patrick: water well it's it's the

[2:53:05] Trustee Patrick: combination of healthy forests is is a healthier

[2:53:10] Trustee Patrick: forest is more resilient to climate change i think that's what the scientists are generally

[2:53:15] Trustee Patrick: generally you know if the ecosystem is maintained intact and and healthier uh that it you know it

[2:53:22] Trustee Patrick: may eventually succumb depending on what you know what what comes down the road but it would

[2:53:29] Trustee Patrick: retard i guess you could say the effects i don't know deb if i'm using the right words but uh

[2:53:36] Voice 11: yeah and oh

[2:53:38] Trustee Patrick: sorry go ahead no go ahead

[2:53:39] Voice 11: yeah and and through the chair so um

[2:53:41] Voice 11: I think that water is a metric of a change in climate because it's relating

[2:53:48] Voice 11: to not only the landscape, but also the communities that use them.

[2:53:53] Voice 11: And so that being said, chainsaws move faster than climate.

[2:53:57] Trustee Morrison: I know.

[2:53:58] Voice 11: Right. Like, so it's,

[2:54:00] Voice 11: it's about land use more than climate because we've been sitting on our hands

[2:54:05] Voice 11: for 20 years about climate as land use has not been

[2:54:10] Voice 11: been influenced by that concern because scientists were trying to not prove climate

[2:54:17] Voice 11: change is happening because we already did that 20 years ago just trying to inform the communities

[2:54:23] Voice 11: and politicians to care about it and

[2:54:25] Voice 11: now we're there finally um so i i agree with chair patrick

[2:54:30] Voice 11: that it's it's healthy for us so uh climate is just one component of that and and um you know

[2:54:38] Voice 11: The cutting down trees is another component.

[2:54:41] Voice 11: Intact soil resources is another component.

[2:54:45] Voice 11: The impact of surface water to groundwater interactions is a large component of that.

[2:54:52] Voice 11: Return flows from septic is a long component of that.

[2:54:55] Voice 11: It's a really complex integrated system.

[2:54:59] Voice 11: And by looking at the groundwater, that is one element of this whole story.

[2:55:06] Voice 11: the the interesting thing on the gulf islands about groundwater is that it is a very integral

[2:55:14] Voice 11: element of protecting coastal douglas fir or sorry um in in uh supporting the health of coastal

[2:55:22] Voice 11: douglas fir but the interesting thing is is that there's a lot of people that use groundwater

[2:55:27] Voice 11: across the island and so the the way that the communities interact with with their water use

[2:55:34] Voice 11: and the protection of the the recharge areas is like really special in in areas of vancouver

[2:55:42] Voice 11: island the recharge is happening up in the mountains which is either crown land or protected

[2:55:47] Voice 11: forest lands or or park and and we just it's very unique on these islands that it's in situ

[2:55:56] Voice 11: recharge where people are living on top of their recharge and it's a publicly it's a sort of it's

[2:56:02] Voice 11: a privately managed water source that is should is a community water source so there's so many

[2:56:08] Voice 11: different considerations there so um yeah so just by protecting groundwater are we going to save the

[2:56:15] Voice 11: cdf no but it's it's it's a it's a large variable and component of of that uh initiative and and

[2:56:25] Voice 11: just to um comment on on your comment trustee morrison about two years in order bylaws

[2:56:30] Voice 11: regional district in Nanaimo has their drinking water watershed protection program was $750,000

[2:56:37] Voice 11: a year and they've been at it for 10 years they don't have bylaws yet so it's it we're we're

[2:56:42] Voice 11: doing like a lot of science in a very compressed amount of time and the but it has been like from

[2:56:50] Voice 11: a groundswell of community engagement I've been gone I've been going to Pender and Penders in Maine

[2:56:55] Voice 11: and the Southern Gulf Islands trying to engage community

[2:56:58] Voice 11: in protection of groundwater recharge or groundwater in general.

[2:57:03] Voice 11: And indeed on Pender, there's been a long history

[2:57:05] Voice 11: of people understanding the importance of groundwater.

[2:57:08] Voice 11: So I think that there is an opportunity to have protective bylaws

[2:57:16] Voice 11: that can last decades right now, and we have the science.

[2:57:20] Voice 11: So it, it just really depends on, uh, what bylaw tools or what planning tools will fit

[2:57:29] Voice 11: the intention of, of the protection that like resonates with the, with the science that

[2:57:36] Voice 11: was done.

[2:57:37] Voice 11: And, uh, and I can point to different areas on the Southern Gulf islands where that didn't

[2:57:43] Voice 11: work out, like the elevated catchment areas on Galliano Island, that DPA didn't work.

[2:57:49] Voice 11: The science was good. The intention was good. At the end of the day, the bylaw was not correct. And I think that we need to really focus on getting that last piece correct. And that's what this third phase is. Yeah, I think I'm droning on here.

[2:58:07] Voice 11: or something can i can

[2:58:08] Trustee Patrick: i suggest i i that you know i'm seeing sort of the four that you know that

[2:58:13] Trustee Patrick: there is a bit of a layer of of the of the ecosystem protection because that's part of

[2:58:19] Trustee Patrick: my understanding the groundwater recharge is finding the areas that are most critical to the

[2:58:23] Trustee Patrick: island um not just from a drinking water perspective but from a eco health perspective

[2:58:29] Trustee Patrick: so to me that's kind of what four is talking about and is that something that's palatable

[2:58:35] Trustee Patrick: to the other trustees um

[2:58:45] Trustee McConchie: i like i don't know i i think i'm not smart enough to understand this all

[2:58:50] Trustee McConchie: like here's what i want as a trustee i want areas of the island set up for rainwater catchment

[2:58:56] Trustee McConchie: because obviously as you can tell past april it's going to be drought the rest for the all for a

[2:59:02] Trustee McConchie: long time now um i want uh areas of the islands to be known where the recharge is is lacking where

[2:59:10] Trustee McConchie: where we're where we're going to need to put these rainwater catchment systems in place

[2:59:13] Trustee McConchie: um i want uh by laws from the province to prevent chainsaws from cutting down the island like does

[2:59:22] Trustee McConchie: that do this like in layman's terms that does that that those are my goals does this number four that

[2:59:30] Trustee McConchie: you're proposing chair patrick address that and solve the the clearly the the problems that need

[2:59:35] Trustee McConchie: need to be addressed like

[2:59:37] Trustee Patrick: i mean managing forests and chainsaws is complicated as you know and comes

[2:59:43] Trustee Patrick: from different different things a development permit area at the end of the day for forest

[2:59:49] Trustee Patrick: only guides as you're familiar it's like every development permit you have

[2:59:54] Trustee Patrick: it guides what you can do but it doesn't prevent you from doing things so it's it's

[2:59:59] Trustee Patrick: Thanks for watching.

[3:00:00] Trustee Patrick: it just puts some boundaries on it um second to that is we're trying the through the islands trust

[3:00:06] Trustee Patrick: is advocating with the province to get the authority to tree cutting bylaw a tree cutting

[3:00:12] Trustee Patrick: bylaw authority and that's that's coming yeah i mean the conversation's happening adam olson did

[3:00:18] Trustee Patrick: a question and question period last week of uh of the minister um and the conversation is occurring

[3:00:24] Trustee Patrick: with staff on on that issue but that's coming down the road and that would be a whole nother

[3:00:29] Trustee Patrick: set of work of how to apply that but this is about you know where areas on the island would

[3:00:37] Trustee Patrick: you know I mean there's all kinds of questions so I mean I'm not really helping so

[3:00:43] Trustee Morrison: I I think that

[3:00:44] Trustee Morrison: the option four is helpful with the sort of understanding because I've been been to your

[3:00:52] Trustee Morrison: point I think that option four starts to get toward many of the things that you and I have

[3:00:56] Trustee Morrison: those concerns that are integrated concerns. I think, William, I think one of the things that

[3:01:02] Trustee Morrison: I'm hearing, and that I understand quite clearly is that we do actually have much of the science

[3:01:07] Trustee Morrison: done, like at this point, so that kind of layer of information is available. What I want to see

[3:01:14] Trustee Morrison: next is I want to see like, how do we use it? Right? And so like, from the use of the information

[3:01:21] Trustee Morrison: perspective, I actually think I want number four, I want to think about how do we use that

[3:01:25] Trustee Morrison: information in concert with what information we already have around cdf which we have because

[3:01:31] Trustee Morrison: we've seen those maps like i've seen those contiguous maps in one of the reporting things

[3:01:35] Trustee Morrison: in the last year so and i whatever bylaws are produced around that i kind of want that

[3:01:42] Trustee Morrison: integrated perspective on the bylaws i get the information itself might be like in different

[3:01:47] Trustee Morrison: layers and we can use that in different ways ways in the future but the bylaws i'd like to

[3:01:51] Trustee Morrison: to see a little bit more integration in the bylaws so

[3:01:55] Voice 3: i'd go for that sounds like option four yeah

[3:01:57] Voice 3: yeah

[3:01:57] Trustee Morrison: i think i that's what i would like to see because it potentially gives us the power that

[3:02:05] Trustee Morrison: we lack actually it potentially helps us leverage water as a lever for forest protection where it's

[3:02:11] Trustee Morrison: needed not to say that it's central but where it's needed that we can use it to leverage forest

[3:02:17] Trustee Morrison: protection and

[3:02:18] Trustee Patrick: it helps the conversation with the community as well when you're saying i'm

[3:02:22] Trustee Patrick: focusing my conversations about this area yeah

[3:02:26] Voice 11: and and through the chair um so so that there's

[3:02:30] Voice 11: there's two components to the groundwater sustainability strategy right there's the

[3:02:36] Voice 11: one where it's recharged which is a very spatial based 20 by 20 meter grid kind of thing that that

[3:02:43] Voice 11: lines really well with cdf mapping because we're mapping trees we're mapping locations on the

[3:02:49] Voice 11: landscape uh to speak to what trustee mcconkie was saying about uh like requiring rainwater capture

[3:02:56] Voice 11: understanding where there's already stress on the island that's the more of the water balance side

[3:03:02] Voice 11: which is a more regional approach so that there are critical areas on north bender that the water

[3:03:09] Voice 11: budget is is looking like it's getting to an allocation level which is risky or it maybe in

[3:03:17] Voice 11: the future will be less sustainable so in those areas um like we need to protect the existing user

[3:03:25] Voice 11: and we need to protect the ecosystems so for any new use if it's even permitted there can be

[3:03:32] Voice 11: mitigating measures in those areas like there must be rainwater capture and and that that's

[3:03:38] Voice 11: already occurring across the southern gulf islands on saturn island there's um east point that you

[3:03:44] Voice 11: you need to have storage regardless of the water source.

[3:03:47] Voice 11: So there's, there's elements like that,

[3:03:50] Voice 11: but also it's a useful guide for the LTC to make decisions right away.

[3:03:55] Voice 11: So trustee Morrison was saying, how do I use the data? Well,

[3:03:59] Voice 11: planners can now utilize the water budget and for areas of increased density

[3:04:08] Voice 11: applications. And also for say,

[3:04:11] Voice 11: say for larger subdivisions or something like that, looking at the impacts of groundwater

[3:04:17] Voice 11: recharge potential, whether or not they're inside a DPA or not, right? Like that data is available

[3:04:24] Voice 11: to us, similar to the aqua vulnerability data that was used for the industrial land application in

[3:04:33] Voice 11: middle of town down the farm before. So on a day-to-day basis, planners can use that and

[3:04:42] Voice 11: approach the LTC with analysis and I can help with that. So I just wanted to make it clear that

[3:04:50] Voice 11: there's going to be two different planning strategies coming out of the groundwater

[3:04:55] Voice 11: sustainability strategy. One that's area-based or more like spatially based and one that more is

[3:05:01] Voice 11: like on a zoning kind of size you know all

[3:05:05] Trustee Patrick: right uh trustee mcconkey yeah

[3:05:06] Trustee McConchie: just like okay i start

[3:05:07] Trustee McConchie: to realize i guess like what's happening is like you you guys are really into this work

[3:05:12] Trustee McConchie: but you got to understand like from my perspective as a trustee like i i have maybe one or two

[3:05:18] Trustee McConchie: reports right and i see like you've got here on the agenda community groundwater workshop to

[3:05:24] Trustee McConchie: present findings of phases one and two well wouldn't that wouldn't it be useful for me to

[3:05:28] Trustee McConchie: to hear all that information before i make a decision right now like i i guess what i'm saying

[3:05:33] Trustee McConchie: is i i apologize i just feel in the dark about like what what we're learning what we're finding

[3:05:40] Trustee McConchie: what the information is and and i i'm not sure how to address that um i haven't really been

[3:05:47] Trustee McConchie: communicated with about any of the findings you know so and then you're asking me to asking me

[3:05:52] Trustee McConchie: right now to vote on the direction of what how to implement it without even understanding the

[3:05:57] Trustee McConchie: the findings of phases one and two so i'm just kind of i don't know it just i'm just a bit

[3:06:03] Trustee McConchie: confused today i apologize for that but yeah yeah

[3:06:07] Voice 11: no that that's fair i mean it's been a long time

[3:06:10] Voice 11: coming and and the review and and and just trying to get this work together and it's it's emerging

[3:06:18] Voice 11: understanding of of of groundwater on the island it's not like we had a methodology which let the

[3:06:24] Voice 11: press play on right so um but but to be a little bit crass if you will like for recharge there's

[3:06:33] Voice 11: there's areas of very very high potential recharge we need to protect and areas of marginal recharge

[3:06:38] Voice 11: we have to protect and areas of low recharge we don't care about on for groundwater balance there's

[3:06:42] Voice 11: areas that are really bad then there's areas that are kind of bad and then there's areas that we

[3:06:47] Voice 11: don't really have to care about right and and that type of mapping will be presented to you

[3:06:52] Voice 11: and and and we'll go through that through the bylaw process to understand that we're that we're

[3:06:59] Voice 11: drawing the lines in the correct position right so there's bad and there's good like i mean just

[3:07:04] Voice 11: that's just and there's areas

[3:07:06] Voice 3: that are that may be fine now but they have lots of subdivision

[3:07:09] Voice 3: potential that's

[3:07:10] Voice 11: right yes yeah so yeah sorry robert and

[3:07:15] Trustee Morrison: i i would like to get to that asap

[3:07:18] Trustee Morrison: peak so that we can like figure out like like that to me is useful and like but but that to me was

[3:07:26] Trustee Morrison: like phase one phase like to get to those maps now i want to understand what to use those maps for

[3:07:33] Trustee Morrison: so

[3:07:34] Voice 11: that's option one yeah stick

[3:07:38] Trustee Morrison: with the groundwater project but

[3:07:39] Trustee Morrison: i want to use those maps

[3:07:41] Trustee Morrison: in the context of ensuring that forest health is integrated with thinking about that in the bylaws

[3:07:46] Trustee Morrison: I don't just want you to come and tell me they're useful.

[3:07:48] Trustee Morrison: I want to see bylaws that use them.

[3:07:50] Voice 11: But I guess what Robert and I are trying to say is that option one is what you first said.

[3:07:57] Voice 11: And then option two is, or what you said in the latter part is kind of option four.

[3:08:05] Voice 11: Like, so option four is still continuing on with identifying these critical zones.

[3:08:12] Voice 11: And, you know, and it's not phase one.

[3:08:15] Voice 11: like the the data and all that stuff you the ltc has agreed to you haven't agreed to engaging in

[3:08:21] Voice 11: the bylaw process yet we don't have a project charter that outlines staff to undertake that

[3:08:27] Voice 11: work right that's what is attached to this and we're having this in-depth discussion um because

[3:08:35] Voice 11: i what what my concern is is that i mean you have to give us an initial condition and staff are

[3:08:42] Voice 11: going to go away and do a ton of work right so when we come back we want to make sure that the

[3:08:48] Voice 11: work that we have done is aligned with the ltc's um general understanding of of where the ship is

[3:08:56] Voice 11: pointed right and we're going to go down in the engine room and make it go yeah

[3:09:00] Trustee Morrison: yeah and and i'm

[3:09:02] Trustee Morrison: i understand that william i understand we haven't asked you for bylaws yet what i'm asking for now

[3:09:07] Trustee Morrison: is i want to see bylaws like i i understand that like what we've done to date is producing some of

[3:09:14] Trustee Morrison: the maps and i think that i'm still in support of this i'm still a go on this but i need pragmatic

[3:09:20] Trustee Morrison: things we can act on now because we're two and a half two years into a little bit more than two

[3:09:25] Trustee Morrison: years into from our perspective into this work and we need to see bylaws that we can act on this

[3:09:30] Trustee Morrison: otherwise we're going to be through a term with nothing concrete to show for what we're really

[3:09:34] Trustee Morrison: doing like in in the terms of like what's going to change in terms of activity on this island

[3:09:39] Trustee Morrison: and I get that Nanaimo has a long-term thing we're tiny little pender we just want to like

[3:09:44] Trustee Morrison: figure out what are some and I think you've named many of them like I know you know what these are

[3:09:49] Trustee Morrison: I just want to see them on paper at this point and and I want those things to take that integrated

[3:09:56] Trustee Morrison: approach of like naming those recharge areas like okay gazetting them whatever we do on our

[3:10:02] Trustee Morrison: our bylaws for that naming you know those three kind of zones that you have or however you want

[3:10:06] Trustee Morrison: to name them i want to see some language around like in this zone do catchment in this zone don't

[3:10:11] Trustee Morrison: like whatever those best practices are that's what i want to see and part of those bylaws i would like

[3:10:18] Trustee Morrison: to see like a like an understanding and connection with the cdf toolkit recommendations i don't want

[3:10:24] Trustee Morrison: them to be two separate things a mile apart i want to like consider what the cdf recommendations are

[3:10:30] Trustee Morrison: as you're relating to protection for the water because it's going to be way easier for us to

[3:10:34] Trustee Morrison: get them in underwater regulations okay i'm going to pause i'm

[3:10:42] Voice 9: going to go yeah i still feel like

[3:10:43] Trustee Morrison: we're option four i think it's option four okay

[3:10:46] Trustee McConchie: well just to make but no one's really addressed

[3:10:49] Trustee McConchie: my point which is that i haven't seen the results of phases one or two and you're asking me to

[3:10:53] Trustee McConchie: provide a project charter when i haven't seen phase one and or two so that's i

[3:10:57] Trustee Morrison: thought we had

[3:10:58] Trustee Morrison: like

[3:10:59] Trustee McConchie: maybe the results you've seen the drafts

[3:11:01] Voice 11: I've offered drafts yeah

[3:11:04] Trustee Morrison: so when do we get the

[3:11:06] Trustee Morrison: final products sorry Ben guys

[3:11:11] Trustee McConchie: I don't know how else to tell you yeah I

[3:11:14] Trustee McConchie: don't understand what

[3:11:15] Trustee McConchie: I'm voting for yeah as

[3:11:17] Trustee McConchie: blunt as I possibly can and that communication could be improved

[3:11:21] Trustee McConchie: to inform me and assume that I'm at a grade five level at this in this issue please help me

[3:11:29] Trustee McConchie: number four sounds good right because i'm trusting your professional opinion

[3:11:34] Trustee McConchie: but this is a pretty like this is a substantial amount of time and money and hours right i just

[3:11:40] Trustee McConchie: want to be voting on and uh i'm

[3:11:43] Trustee Morrison: with you that

[3:11:44] Trustee McConchie: makes sense yeah

[3:11:45] Voice 3: it does make sense but from

[3:11:47] Voice 3: our perspective you voted on this in february to go down this path of implementing the groundwater

[3:11:53] Voice 3: water project and then in the last meeting it was like put on the brakes let's talk about cdf

[3:12:00] Voice 3: yeah

[3:12:01] Voice 11: well let's speak i would recommend let's continue on with number one we

[3:12:07] Voice 11: didn't

[3:12:08] Trustee Patrick: put on the brakes i want to be clear we didn't put on the brakes uh what was asked was

[3:12:12] Trustee Patrick: that just that the perspective of coastal douglas furby added to the the water discussion that

[3:12:18] Trustee Patrick: that considered it wasn't combined it was just considering okay

[3:12:24] Trustee McConchie: so sorry chair Patrick so

[3:12:26] Trustee McConchie: William you're seeing number one uh what's the justification for that well

[3:12:30] Voice 11: because I think if

[3:12:31] Voice 11: you really want to do a deep dive on CDF's like integration with with water you need to do a

[3:12:36] Voice 11: watershed analysis and that's not what like this was a very groundwater focused analysis um I have

[3:12:43] Voice 11: a contract right now through the Healthy Watersheds Initiative for, it's not that much,

[3:12:49] Voice 11: $6,000 for a contractor to do watershed resilience mapping on Hornby and Muskeetee as part of those

[3:12:58] Voice 11: projects. And that's doing a deep dive on the vegetation resource inventory, looking at trees,

[3:13:04] Voice 11: looking at the landscape to identify how forests are integrated with the health of watersheds,

[3:13:11] Voice 11: right so that that's that's another analysis which we can do but i think what robert and i

[3:13:17] Voice 11: are suggesting is that we've we've we've already are going down the road on on identifying this

[3:13:23] Voice 11: groundwater stuff that does not preclude looking at watershed protection right and and number four

[3:13:31] Voice 11: is saying after we do number one then integrate cdf right um i i don't like i don't think we have

[3:13:41] Voice 11: the capacity right now to to kind of do a more cdf science right now like right now we're in the

[3:13:48] Voice 11: bylaws stage of the of the of the groundwater if we would have said back at the initial conditions

[3:13:54] Voice 11: hey let's focus on cdf and watersheds i would have baked it into the contract with with gw

[3:14:00] Voice 11: solutions right so i i just i i we the the phased approach of the groundwater sustainability strategy

[3:14:08] Voice 11: was was very clear to me um talking about cdf in the final stages of the groundwater and how they

[3:14:16] Voice 11: relate i i can kind of get that integrating them all into like a cdf forest protection bylaw with

[3:14:25] Voice 11: groundwater like that i i don't have the expertise to navigate that um and and i don't think that's

[3:14:34] Voice 11: happen anywhere like the cdf toolkit is very straightforward and and so to follow the cdf

[3:14:39] Voice 11: toolkit is a good thing to do my groundwater sustainability strategy is very straightforward

[3:14:43] Voice 11: i think it's a good thing to do do that and then i think you just layer them on top of each okay

[3:14:49] Voice 11: well i

[3:14:49] Trustee McConchie: appreciate your candor because i i agree and i'm reading at this um william because it

[3:14:54] Trustee McConchie: states here this project option under number one uh indicating the project charter for galliano so

[3:15:00] Trustee McConchie: So Galliano's pursued this option.

[3:15:02] Trustee McConchie: They already have the methodology in place,

[3:15:05] Trustee McConchie: the same methodology.

[3:15:06] Trustee McConchie: So this is a regional approach to groundwater.

[3:15:08] Trustee McConchie: So it sounds to me like the Galliano approach

[3:15:13] Trustee McConchie: would also be completed before the term is done.

[3:15:18] Trustee McConchie: Yeah, and you're recommending it.

[3:15:20] Trustee McConchie: You're a groundwater specialist.

[3:15:22] Trustee McConchie: I mean, sounds good to me.

[3:15:23] Trustee McConchie: I'd be happy to go with number one then,

[3:15:28] Trustee McConchie: if that's the case.

[3:15:29] Trustee McConchie: If you're going to say there's no benefit

[3:15:31] Trustee McConchie: to us seeing the the work the you know the the uh workshops uh that were scheduled for the in june

[3:15:37] Trustee McConchie: then then that's great i i to me that makes sense yeah

[3:15:43] Trustee Morrison: so if we went with option one um

[3:15:46] Trustee Morrison: then we just need to think about like as another project do if it's so straightforward to do the

[3:15:51] Trustee Morrison: coastal douglas fir or if it's going to be done by regional planning at some larger scale and it

[3:15:56] Trustee Morrison: also gets done because you're absolutely right chainsaws are moving a little faster than

[3:16:01] Trustee Morrison: everything else and we're feeling that here so um and that's the tension that we're struggling with

[3:16:07] Trustee Morrison: is because we don't have a fully integrated regional approach yet we're whack-a-moling

[3:16:14] Trustee Morrison: projects right and we're whack-a-moling them based on what's happening and the number of places that

[3:16:20] Trustee Morrison: are like cutting swaths of forest is frightening so that's the challenge that we're facing of

[3:16:29] Trustee Morrison: of course, we want to have groundwater clear and like complete the project. That's like

[3:16:35] Trustee Morrison: straightforward from my perspective. So, you know, I'm happy to do that. And then we'll just

[3:16:40] Trustee Morrison: duke it out on the other two projects to try and like figure out how to ensure we get the

[3:16:45] Trustee Morrison: Coastal Douglas FERC toolkit implemented. Because I'm pretty unwilling to wait another five years

[3:16:51] Trustee Morrison: for that to be implemented, if it's like something we could do at a regional level.

[3:16:55] Trustee Morrison: right

[3:16:56] Voice 11: and and i think um on on that perspective i mean i i lived through sanich when they tried

[3:17:02] Voice 11: to do their tree cutting bylaw environmental protection area thing and it was a nightmare

[3:17:10] Voice 11: to see how much force was lost as planners and politicians went back

[3:17:16] Voice 11: and forth over the thing

[3:17:17] Voice 11: they didn't know how to do it so then the people who had those trees or want to take those trees

[3:17:22] Voice 11: down just went ahead and just did it and it was not good and that you know we're seeing we saw

[3:17:28] Voice 11: a micro amount of that on salt spring island as as soon as we started talking about cdf it's like

[3:17:34] Voice 11: oh there it goes two forests and so i think it it would be um i just don't want to

[3:17:43] Voice 11: uh average out and lessen the the the importance of protecting cdf and those watershed ecosystems

[3:17:53] Voice 11: by just tacking it onto the groundwater thing because the groundwater perspective was was very

[3:18:00] Voice 11: narrowly focused for that reason to protect water and to understand the water budget like we didn't

[3:18:06] Voice 11: really do a detailed analysis on surface water, which has like such a huge influence over the

[3:18:16] Voice 11: health of the CDF, right? And there could be a deeper dive on precipitation distribution and

[3:18:23] Voice 11: all that kind of stuff that would be wrapped into a larger project. And so my last comment on this

[3:18:31] Voice 11: is that we're going through the freshwater sustainability strategy development right now.

[3:18:35] Voice 11: and I've been in deep talks with the consultant on that and and they're like great you're doing

[3:18:42] Voice 11: groundwater it's getting steam you're getting close the next 10 years let's focus on watersheds

[3:18:47] Voice 11: you know what I mean it's like you kind of start underground move to the upper ground and then

[3:18:52] Voice 11: and it's a big comprehensive package and I think we need to really know what we want

[3:18:57] Voice 11: and how we're going to undertake protecting coastal Douglas fir because if it's a 10-year

[3:19:02] Voice 11: project in the public eye you're going to lose forests and that's my if i were to sound like a

[3:19:07] Voice 11: politician i'm just going to leave it at that that's a

[3:19:10] Trustee Morrison: good point i think that's helpful and

[3:19:11] Trustee Morrison: and i i i guess basically i'm a little bit raging as as usual robert i'm sure you're like so done

[3:19:18] Trustee Morrison: with this but i'm like a little bit raging just against the fragmented way that we're doing

[3:19:24] Trustee Morrison: regional level planning efforts like the cdf should really be a broader regional effort

[3:19:29] Trustee Morrison: from a climate change perspective and it's deeply frustrating for me that we haven't quite got there

[3:19:35] Trustee Morrison: yet and so like a deep breathing exercise might be needed um which is difficult honestly as i walk

[3:19:43] Trustee Morrison: around and see forest cut so yeah i hear

[3:19:47] Trustee Patrick: you deb and i i think the work on salt spring that

[3:19:50] Trustee Patrick: the coastal is intended to grow to a regional that's what we're trying to do is yeah grow this

[3:19:55] Trustee Patrick: to a regional thing and that's one of the reasons why I'll be adding that the the motions that you

[3:19:59] Trustee Patrick: see about getting into that grant process as well because it's bringing potentially some serious

[3:20:05] Trustee Patrick: funds into kick-starting all of this at a broader level yeah

[3:20:08] Trustee Morrison: I hear that Laura but then I also hear

[3:20:10] Trustee Morrison: like as soon as we have like model bylaws and things that it has to become one of our projects

[3:20:14] Trustee Morrison: and then it takes another two years to get it implemented and like that's just I just need that

[3:20:18] Trustee Morrison: process workers I hear you frustrated today so let's just move on go for one Ben if you want to

[3:20:24] Trustee Morrison: to put emotion all

[3:20:24] Trustee McConchie: right well i

[3:20:26] Trustee McConchie: 76 i just i i'm i'm not doing the throwing my hands in the air

[3:20:30] Trustee McConchie: i i actually really

[3:20:31] Trustee McConchie: appreciate what you said william uh i always appreciate you coming in

[3:20:36] Trustee McConchie: and to the our trust committee and just taking on very challenging questions right and you're a new

[3:20:41] Trustee McConchie: it's a new position for the islands trust relatively new so i i i was convinced uh of

[3:20:46] Trustee McConchie: the importance of number one uh based on this conversation and um you know it's i i i feel like

[3:20:53] Trustee McConchie: it's extraordinarily worthwhile work what you're doing so i would be happy to vote uh that the

[3:20:59] Trustee McConchie: i don't know it's on page

[3:21:00] Trustee McConchie: 76 create a motion on 76 thank you page 76 recommendation yeah but

[3:21:05] Trustee McConchie: the wording is that the north pender island local trust committee requests staff

[3:21:09] Trustee McConchie: to create a project charter for option one as identified in the april 29th 2021 staff report

[3:21:18] Voice 3: You already got the

[3:21:20] Voice 3: project charter, so for option one.

[3:21:23] Voice 3: Oh, so you don't need a motion.

[3:21:24] Trustee McConchie: That was

[3:21:24] Trustee McConchie: what you adopted in January.

[3:21:25] Voice 3: Yeah, just carry on with the groundwater project.

[3:21:28] Voice 3: Carry on.

[3:21:29] Trustee McConchie: Thanks.

[3:21:29] Trustee McConchie: So a motion to carry on.

[3:21:32] Trustee McConchie: All right, so you don't need a motion.

[3:21:34] Trustee Patrick: All right, then.

[3:21:34] Trustee McConchie: No, but I appreciate the taking the effort to go through the explanation of all this.

[3:21:39] Trustee McConchie: It was

[3:21:40] Trustee Patrick: a good thing to do.

[3:21:40] Trustee Patrick: Just warning, trustees, we still have a closed session to have and we have a hard stop at 1?

[3:21:46] Trustee Patrick: 1.30.

[3:21:47] Trustee Patrick: 1.30.

[3:21:48] Trustee Patrick: okay

[3:21:48] Trustee McConchie: so just to say so next just so i'm clear next month we're going to get uh like william

[3:21:54] Trustee McConchie: you're coming in to present the findings of phase one and two is that correct or the following month

[3:21:59] Voice 11: following month and there's going to be a community presentation in june okay

[3:22:04] Trustee McConchie: because yeah because i

[3:22:04] Trustee McConchie: that what really helps is um that no the knowing that so i can tell people what what the good work

[3:22:10] Trustee McConchie: you're up to and they can attend the zoom meeting and ensure that i we properly promote that right

[3:22:16] Voice 11: Right. If I were to ask the LTC, is June a good month to do a community presentation?

[3:22:22] Voice 7: Yeah, it's fine.

[3:22:22] Voice 11: Sure.

[3:22:23] Trustee McConchie: Totally. Everyone's probably going to be still stuck at home, potentially, right? Maybe

[3:22:29] Trustee McConchie: getting out and about, but lots of people are engaged right now.

[3:22:32] Trustee Morrison: Yeah. And really, William, I think the big thing for that is just going to be like having that

[3:22:36] Trustee Morrison: material available in advance. So like what I'm nervous about, and we've like last year,

[3:22:43] Trustee Morrison: we had a preliminary presentation from you i want to see like the report in our hands like 10 days

[3:22:50] Trustee Morrison: early so we people can dig into it and understand clearly what it is because people need more than

[3:22:54] Trustee Morrison: just on the fly yeah

[3:22:55] Voice 11: that they're all like i'm considering to have a like an agenda package for

[3:23:01] Voice 11: it's like a

[3:23:02] Voice 11: community information meeting right

[3:23:03] Trustee Morrison: that's what would be good yeah yeah so maybe

[3:23:06] Voice 11: calling it a workshop robert maybe it's not the right is it would it be a community information

[3:23:10] Voice 11: meeting are

[3:23:11] Voice 3: you thinking you want to just do it as a standalone meeting devote devote a whole

[3:23:16] Voice 3: separate uh meeting to presenting the options having just uh questions answers if

[3:23:23] Trustee Morrison: we have the

[3:23:23] Trustee Morrison: capacity in the budget i'm kind of like leaning toward that but yep yep

[3:23:27] Voice 3: can

[3:23:29] Trustee Morrison: we do it on a non-work

[3:23:30] Trustee Morrison: day i know our challenges with stuff and like our work schedules is always difficult yeah we can

[3:23:37] Voice 3: to look at a Saturday, a Saturday.

[3:23:38] Voice 11: Yeah. Yeah. I, whatever gets more community engagement and

[3:23:42] Voice 11: it'll be zoom and recorded. So that would also help. Right. Yeah.

[3:23:47] Trustee Morrison: I think that's the way to do

[3:23:47] Trustee Morrison: it. All right. Any other data?

[3:23:52] Trustee McConchie: That's great. Thank you very much.

[3:23:53] Voice 11: Yeah. Like I, I mean,

[3:23:55] Voice 11: when I first went back and forth with Robert on this, I would have rather us gone down the road

[3:24:00] Voice 11: of, of, of bylaws of what we wanted them before the presentation, but I think it's good just to

[3:24:05] Voice 11: present the findings of the mapping and then and then have that out in the community and then we'll

[3:24:11] Voice 11: go forward by phase three looking at the bylaws yeah i'm looking forward to it

[3:24:18] Trustee McConchie: just a quick

[3:24:19] Trustee McConchie: question are people gonna come to this meeting and find out like whoa my neighborhood doesn't

[3:24:23] Trustee McConchie: have any water yeah potentially

[3:24:25] Trustee McConchie: so this is a pretty serious meeting this

[3:24:28] Voice 11: is what i've been

[3:24:29] Voice 11: trying to tell you like sort of

[3:24:30] Trustee McConchie: some candid like yeah like

[3:24:31] Voice 11: i i haven't been releasing draft

[3:24:33] Voice 11: information because in my past in my consulting i've i've made a million dollar mistake by

[3:24:39] Voice 11: releasing draft information and said

[3:24:42] Voice 1: i would never

[3:24:42] Voice 11: do that again and and like these are people's

[3:24:45] Voice 11: lives and this is million

[3:24:46] Voice 11: dollar information right so there's yeah and

[3:24:49] Voice 3: there's some nuances

[3:24:49] Voice 3: with it too that need to be explained right like there's and william and i have talked a lot about

[3:24:54] Voice 3: this with marissa is that there's um you know there's waterless licensed amounts that are

[3:24:58] Voice 3: licensed right typically to agricultural users um and how do you account for that um they have

[3:25:05] Voice 3: this potential to use this massive amount of water but they're not using it yeah so how do you show

[3:25:12] Voice 3: that yeah

[3:25:13] Voice 11: yeah so like the in the water i mean we're gonna we're getting a little bit to the

[3:25:17] Voice 11: weeds but just to what robert was saying there some of the water budgets are showing red like

[3:25:22] Voice 11: Like it's unsustainable. There's a lot of use,

[3:25:25] Voice 11: but that is like anticipated or expected use,

[3:25:29] Voice 11: but you know what, that's or

[3:25:30] Voice 11: potential, but that's what our policy statement says that

[3:25:34] Voice 11: anticipated or expected uses to be accounted for. Right. So, so that, that shows that's more of like

[3:25:41] Voice 11: on the, the planning of more density, right. Where someone can look and be like, Oh my God,

[3:25:47] Voice 11: we have no water in this area, but it's like, yeah, well you have all these farms that are

[3:25:51] Voice 11: just hay but they can be vineyards or they can be intensive like intensely used water resources but

[3:25:58] Voice 11: they're not they're just fallow or something like that right so there is nuance and that's why

[3:26:05] Voice 11: there's some sensitivities in there and and for the bylaws to work and people saying we absolutely

[3:26:11] Voice 11: don't want this they're going to have to really understand this the the nuances of the science

[3:26:17] Voice 11: which is an educational challenge, which I'm really excited about.

[3:26:22] Voice 11: I love educating. I'm a teacher. And so I'm interested in that. So, yeah.

[3:26:27] Trustee McConchie: Yeah. Well, I appreciate your candor, William.

[3:26:30] Trustee McConchie: Please, the North Penderites here all appreciate that.

[3:26:34] Trustee McConchie: It's much more effective and I really dig it.

[3:26:37] Trustee McConchie: So thanks so much for letting me know the importance of that.

[3:26:41] Trustee Patrick: All right. Any others? We'll move on to soil bylaw then.

[3:26:45] Trustee Patrick: All right. So that's on page 82.

[3:26:48] Voice 3: Okay, thank you, Chair.

[3:26:49] Trustee Patrick: Okay,

[3:26:51] Voice 3: so there's a short memo on the soil bylaws.

[3:26:53] Voice 3: At the last meeting, the LTC asked us to come back with a project charter and initial reporting on a soil deposit removal bylaw project.

[3:27:02] Voice 3: So the memo gives some of the background and context, the legislative context.

[3:27:07] Voice 3: It points out that the only existing soil bylaw in the trust area is on salt spring.

[3:27:13] Voice 3: as adopted in 2008 but it took over basically took over and amended a crd bylaw dating back

[3:27:20] Voice 3: i think to the 80s um had some discussion with file enforcement staff enforcement manager and

[3:27:26] Voice 3: salt spring manager and uh they pointed out there's benefits and issues with the current

[3:27:32] Voice 3: salt spring bylaw um we'll get into the details of what that is it's in the bullet points in the

[3:27:37] Voice 3: memo but just sort of based on those comments and there's also been some legislative changes

[3:27:41] Voice 3: since 2008. We would not recommend simply adopting the Salt Spring version of the bylaw,

[3:27:48] Voice 3: but that the Salt Springs experience be taken into account and review bylaws from other

[3:27:54] Voice 3: jurisdictions as well and report back to the LTC with options and to provide basically an

[3:28:01] Voice 3: improved version of a soil bylaw for the LTC to consider. There's no public hearing associated

[3:28:07] Voice 3: associated with the Soil By-law, but I think it's important that there be some consultation,

[3:28:13] Voice 3: primarily with affected stakeholders like the operators and the contractors who would be most

[3:28:19] Voice 3: affected by this and who you want at least some buy-in from, or at least understanding from,

[3:28:25] Voice 3: before initiating it. Otherwise it's just going to be an enforcement issue. So the project charter

[3:28:31] Voice 3: outlines the project or potential project to adopt a new model soil bylaw. It could be a model bylaw

[3:28:39] Voice 3: for other LTCs as well. And with a timeline to early next year.

[3:28:51] Trustee Morrison: Okay and that puts it, that's

[3:28:53] Trustee Morrison: one of the three projects then right?

[3:28:56] Voice 3: Yeah so if you want to proceed this is one of your three

[3:28:58] Voice 3: projects.

[3:28:59] Trustee Morrison: Yeah but we just go ahead with this because it'd be good to get it on our books.

[3:29:03] Trustee McConchie: Can I ask a question? A couple of questions.

[3:29:06] Trustee McConchie: Yeah. So the bylaw is overly complex. Why did Salt Spring adopt an overly complex bylaw?

[3:29:14] Voice 3: I don't know exactly I wasn't involved with it at the time that's the yeah just gone through a

[3:29:21] Voice 3: bylaw adoption process all sorts of things can get thrown into thrown into the discussion in

[3:29:26] Voice 3: the mix especially if you're dealing with a the bylaw that's there's not a lot of experience

[3:29:31] Voice 3: dealing with it in the trust area the

[3:29:33] Trustee Patrick: other thing is we typically don't do a performance-based where

[3:29:36] Trustee Patrick: I'm trying to move to more performance-based as we create new bylaws we should set performances

[3:29:40] Trustee Patrick: and go back and check did it work right yeah um

[3:29:44] Trustee McConchie: then it says the registration system for work

[3:29:47] Trustee McConchie: not requiring a permit is pointless and is virtually impossible to administer can you

[3:29:53] Trustee McConchie: elaborate on so

[3:29:54] Voice 3: the salt spring bylaw requires it says you know if you need a permit if you meet

[3:29:57] Voice 3: certain thresholds

[3:29:59] Voice 3: We'll be right back.

[3:30:00] Voice 3: You don't need a permit. You still have to register.

[3:30:03] Voice 9: Right.

[3:30:04] Voice 9: And

[3:30:04] Voice 3: so the comment from Stefan is there's no point to having this registry.

[3:30:08] Voice 3: It's nobody, nobody registers voluntarily.

[3:30:11] Trustee Morrison: Right.

[3:30:13] Trustee McConchie: So there's problems. There's a, there's a bylaw.

[3:30:15] Trustee McConchie: Salt Springs dealt with it for a decade and a bit,

[3:30:18] Trustee McConchie: and now they've come back and said, by the way,

[3:30:20] Trustee McConchie: here's some problems with it. Salt Spring, again, I guess, Chair Patrick,

[3:30:24] Trustee McConchie: it's not really addressing amending this soil bylaw.

[3:30:27] Trustee McConchie: so here we have an option on north pender to create a bylaw that steps into 2021 um considering

[3:30:34] Trustee McConchie: all the lessons we've learned from salt spring is that how i'm understanding yeah

[3:30:37] Trustee Patrick: and then we can

[3:30:37] Trustee Patrick: adopt after you do it well

[3:30:40] Trustee McConchie: okay would it would it prevent people from let's say hypothetically

[3:30:45] Trustee McConchie: you own a lot in magic lake and you want to store your boat and so you take out half a mountain

[3:30:51] Trustee McConchie: on your half acre lot uh would this prevent that sort of thing if we adopted a soil deposit

[3:30:59] Trustee McConchie: removal bylaw

[3:31:00] Voice 3: it could yeah

[3:31:01] Trustee McConchie: okay so it's basically if you're going to move a bunch of land

[3:31:06] Trustee McConchie: you got to apply to the trust uh for approval to do that

[3:31:09] Voice 3: yep and then the bylaw has the specifics

[3:31:11] Voice 3: of what you can and can't do and some of the things you can do you may need to get a report

[3:31:16] Voice 3: to support it others you could just do some things you just can't do some things can be

[3:31:20] Voice 3: prohibited right

[3:31:22] Trustee McConchie: because right now you can essentially bring an excavator in take whatever

[3:31:27] Trustee McConchie: soil you want put it in a truck and move it somewhere else is that what it is right now

[3:31:32] Trustee McConchie: yeah okay and

[3:31:33] Voice 3: that's where the salt spring one is useful for sort of large-scale projects or

[3:31:37] Voice 3: large-scale excavation or dumping of soil you can regulate that or it does regulate that and

[3:31:43] Voice 3: the other thing that bylaw enforcement likes is that it prohibits um soil deposit and removal

[3:31:49] Voice 3: removal within us within setbacks from water well

[3:31:53] Trustee McConchie: it makes sense then to me like within a small

[3:31:56] Trustee McConchie: island that we have some prohibition or processes in place that prevent just wide scale movement of

[3:32:03] Trustee McConchie: land especially considering you know recent real estate sales indicate a influx of new folks

[3:32:09] Trustee McConchie: uh wanting to probably you know change the land around and that can affect erosion and

[3:32:15] Trustee McConchie: and ecosystems it can affect so many different things so this this makes sense i don't know

[3:32:21] Trustee McConchie: trustee morrison what do you think

[3:32:22] Trustee McConchie: yeah

[3:32:23] Trustee Morrison: i think this makes sense i think and it seems straightforward

[3:32:25] Trustee Morrison: to get it done in a reasonable amount of time so i think we should go ahead with it so you don't

[3:32:32] Trustee McConchie: know who's going to be working on this particular one though yet robert a not

[3:32:36] Voice 3: yet it's going to be

[3:32:37] Voice 3: me for now okay all

[3:32:40] Trustee McConchie: right and it seems like it's something we can get going pretty quick so we can

[3:32:44] Trustee McConchie: and adopt and implement it by by early 2022 is what you're suggesting yeah

[3:32:48] Trustee Patrick: okay so we would need

[3:32:50] Trustee Patrick: a motion for the local trust committee to endorse this project charter on page 84 okay

[3:32:57] Trustee McConchie: i'd like to

[3:32:58] Trustee McConchie: make a motion uh that the there's no draft

[3:33:04] Trustee McConchie: sorry go ahead there's

[3:33:07] Trustee Patrick: no there's no recommendations

[3:33:08] Trustee Patrick: so you're gonna have to wing it there keep going that's

[3:33:11] Trustee McConchie: fine well i that the the north

[3:33:13] Trustee McConchie: North Pender Island Local Trust Committee can adopt a soil removal and deposit bylaw

[3:33:21] Trustee McConchie: and make it a top priority on the top priority list.

[3:33:25] Trustee McConchie: I

[3:33:25] Trustee Patrick: think you already did that.

[3:33:26] Trustee Patrick: So it's just the project charter.

[3:33:27] Trustee Patrick: You just have

[3:33:27] Trustee Patrick: to endorse the project charter.

[3:33:29] Trustee McConchie: North Pender Island Local Trust Committee endorse the project charter as indicated in

[3:33:33] Trustee McConchie: the staff report on page 84.

[3:33:35] A second.

[3:33:38] Trustee Patrick: All right.

[3:33:40] Trustee Patrick: Shannon, she's typing away.

[3:33:45] Trustee Patrick: way the

[3:33:47] Voice 18: north pender island local trust committee endorsed the project charter as indicated in the

[3:33:51] Voice 18: staff report page 84 probably

[3:33:54] Trustee Patrick: the april 29th staff report just so that that specific but

[3:33:59] Trustee Patrick: all right any discussion i'll call the vote all those in favor

[3:34:06] Trustee Patrick: carried thanks guys for fixing one of our bylaws on salt spring

[3:34:11] Trustee McConchie: sure

[3:34:12] Trustee Patrick: teamwork thanks

[3:34:13] Trustee McConchie: for starting the process well

[3:34:15] Trustee Patrick: it wasn't me 10 years ago

[3:34:18] Trustee McConchie: the salt spring heights apparently

[3:34:20] Trustee Patrick: it was my neighborhood though that kicked it off for the

[3:34:22] Trustee Patrick: so all right then moving on we've already dealt with the land use bylaw earlier today and so

[3:34:33] Trustee Patrick: we're moving on to reports we have the top priorities report in the projects list here

[3:34:37] Trustee Patrick: is there any work that needs to be done on that page 93 don't think so nope carrying on then um

[3:34:48] Trustee Patrick: we have the applications report here on page 95 uh just out of curiosity i i know uh i i know

[3:34:58] Trustee Patrick: david marlo had reported to us the percentage change i'll look at robert what what has been

[3:35:02] Trustee Patrick: the percentage increase on this island approximately do you have that off the top

[3:35:06] Trustee Patrick: I

[3:35:06] Voice 3: don't have North Pender specifically, but for the southern region, it's for the so for the look to the first quarter of 2021 compared to the average of the previous five first quarters.

[3:35:18] Voice 3: And so for the southern region, applications are up 84 percent.

[3:35:21] Voice 3: and

[3:35:23] Trustee Patrick: just so you know the executive committee did ask that we put out a piece of communications

[3:35:29] Trustee Patrick: trust area wide that the applications are up significantly and that you know people should

[3:35:34] Trustee Patrick: expect processing times to not be as you know that they'll be slower

[3:35:39] Voice 3: yeah and so for

[3:35:42] Voice 3: applications that have been received in the last few weeks we've been indicating to applicants

[3:35:46] Voice 3: that the file is being opened but it hasn't it's not going to be assigned for a few weeks

[3:35:51] Voice 3: so you may be getting some some comment from people i have i

[3:35:56] Trustee Morrison: have one question about that

[3:35:58] Trustee Morrison: um how are we do we have a method for prioritizing when we hit a situation like this because i know

[3:36:03] Trustee Morrison: there's an application for uh gravel storage that for the magic lake sewer project it seems to be

[3:36:11] Trustee Morrison: an issue more pressing in a timely way in terms of crd's work and i'm just wondering how to handle

[3:36:17] Trustee Morrison: that yep

[3:36:18] Voice 3: so the um prioritization is just a queue initially um but if there is a project or an

[3:36:26] Voice 3: application that is uh has some genuine priority to it um i can assign that earlier than other

[3:36:34] Voice 3: projects and um that would not just be north bender i look at all the southern islands together

[3:36:40] Voice 3: in terms of assigning the applications so

[3:36:44] Trustee Morrison: do you need a motion from us to tell like a shift in

[3:36:47] Trustee Morrison: priority that way because that one in particular has a larger community issue and i'm a little

[3:36:51] Trustee Morrison: concerned that the crd will go ahead because they like i just don't know what's the you know we ran

[3:36:56] Trustee Morrison: into this before with some of the work that was done along the lake um and i just want to have

[3:37:03] Trustee Morrison: the prune in place instead of retrofitting the permit so

[3:37:05] Voice 3: we have the application uh took a while

[3:37:08] Voice 3: to get it complete um from the applicant but we did get a complete application late last week

[3:37:14] Voice 3: week. So I haven't assigned it yet. But if the LTC does want

[3:37:21] Voice 3: that prioritized, yeah, just tell me.

[3:37:24] Trustee Morrison: I would like it prioritized if that's possible, then just

[3:37:28] Voice 3: because I

[3:37:28] Trustee Morrison: don't want that situation that we had before

[3:37:30] Trustee Morrison: with the CRD.

[3:37:33] Trustee Patrick: We need a resolution or a simple

[3:37:36] Trustee Patrick: I think

[3:37:37] Voice 3: if there's consensus, that's fine.

[3:37:39] Trustee Patrick: Consensus, Trustee McConkie to saying yes.

[3:37:47] Trustee Patrick: Any other questions on any other applications?

[3:37:50] Trustee Patrick: just

[3:37:51] Trustee McConchie: briefly robert about um those these lot line adjustments that are happening in browning

[3:37:57] Trustee McConchie: what's what's what is the purpose of the of the of the boundary readjustment in that which

[3:38:04] Voice 3: application sorry

[3:38:06] Trustee McConchie: this is application uh yeah oh

[3:38:11] Voice 3: that's the nosy point yeah so he's doing a

[3:38:15] Voice 3: boundary adjustment with um the property that's adjacent property that's i think phil do you have

[3:38:22] Voice 3: any yeah

[3:38:23] Voice 14: sorry um it's actually quite a minor boundary adjustment he's just trying to uh he

[3:38:30] Voice 14: it does take a bit more land from uh the uh property below sorry the henshaws um um just

[3:38:39] Voice 14: to give him secure a bit of a view so um but it's pretty straightforward as it stands

[3:38:45] Voice 14: but he does it's similar to the other boundary adjustment subdivision that you guys reviewed it

[3:38:51] Voice 14: has development permit areas in it so it'll it just will

[3:38:57] Voice 3: be kind of like

[3:38:57] Voice 14: you

[3:38:58] Voice 3: have to look at

[3:38:59] Voice 3: another hollow dp yeah

[3:39:00] Voice 14: yeah right so but he has his reports all together so my

[3:39:08] Trustee McConchie: next question is

[3:39:10] Trustee McConchie: is like a general question will williams findings and when he reports them in june impact

[3:39:17] Trustee McConchie: applications in particular the the one that's on armadale road for example like like will will

[3:39:25] Trustee McConchie: this information rock the world of applications i'm curious to know that which

[3:39:31] Voice 14: armadale road

[3:39:32] Voice 3: subdivision on armadale road yeah

[3:39:34] Voice 14: subdivision so that's similar situation that's um that there's

[3:39:39] Voice 14: no water requirement because it's a boundary adjustment so we have no water requirement and

[3:39:44] Voice 14: there's there's existing uh existing properties so and actually they're going from three lots to two

[3:39:50] Voice 14: so yes

[3:39:51] Voice 3: so for future subdivisions where they need a proof of potable water report then this will be

[3:39:57] Voice 3: more yeah more um information for the hydrologists to have to look at and to incorporate into their

[3:40:05] Voice 3: analysis and more information for us in reviewing those reports so that's for subdivisions for

[3:40:12] Voice 3: rezoning certainly it'll inform um the rezoning applications but i mean you don't really have any

[3:40:21] Voice 3: any right now or any that i'm

[3:40:24] Voice 3: aware of that are pending do

[3:40:25] Trustee McConchie: we have in our may agenda are we going

[3:40:27] Trustee McConchie: to be making a decision there where we make a decision on whatever and then it comes back that

[3:40:34] Trustee McConchie: By the way, it would have been helpful to know that there's no water there

[3:40:37] Trustee McConchie: if, say, we're dealing with the rezoning or something.

[3:40:40] Voice 3: I'm

[3:40:40] Trustee McConchie: wondering if we're scheduling this all right is what I'm wondering.

[3:40:43] Voice 3: Well, at this point, you've got three TUP renewals on the May agenda

[3:40:48] Voice 3: and the lofts BP.

[3:40:51] Voice 3: Right.

[3:40:52] Voice 3: So at this point, no.

[3:40:54] Trustee McConchie: Okay, perfect.

[3:40:55] Trustee McConchie: That's why I just double-checked it.

[3:40:56] Trustee McConchie: Thank you for taking the time to answer that.

[3:40:58] Trustee Morrison: And the May agenda will also include the application for the storage

[3:41:03] Trustee Morrison: for the crd uh

[3:41:05] Voice 3: we still have to do notification for the tup so okay i don't know if it's going

[3:41:11] Voice 3: to make it on the may agenda so

[3:41:13] Trustee Morrison: phil or whoever's handling that permit are you talking with the crd

[3:41:17] Trustee Morrison: planners are we in conversation hasn't

[3:41:19] Voice 3: been assigned yet we just got it on oh

[3:41:20] Trustee Morrison: i see what

[3:41:21] Trustee Morrison: you mean so but so

[3:41:22] Voice 3: there's been you know but

[3:41:24] Trustee Morrison: okay no no but just before we get into the permit

[3:41:26] Trustee Morrison: specifically robert i'm actually asking about the project more generally like has there been

[3:41:31] Trustee Morrison: conversations at all with the island's trust about the larger crd project and are we like

[3:41:35] Trustee Morrison: understanding where that's what's happening with that uh

[3:41:39] Voice 3: yeah there were some inquiries

[3:41:40] Voice 3: about six months ago from the crd and um just doing looking at development permit areas in

[3:41:46] Voice 3: magic lake okay i'm sure that they didn't need a inquiring about

[3:41:51] Voice 3: development permit yeah kim

[3:41:53] Voice 3: kim tell with the crd on that

[3:41:55] Trustee Morrison: okay so they don't need a riparian because they're going right through

[3:41:59] Trustee Morrison: my riparian area so

[3:42:01] Voice 3: they're exempt from the riparian because the crd work crd work it's

[3:42:07] Voice 3: the other dpas that they're not exempt from okay

[3:42:09] Trustee Morrison: all right all

[3:42:17] Trustee Patrick: right any other questions on

[3:42:19] Trustee Patrick: applications oh

[3:42:23] Voice 11: chair sorry chair

[3:42:24] Voice 9: i just have

[3:42:25] Voice 11: one more comment to trustee mcconkey's um comment so

[3:42:28] Voice 11: since uh uh salt spring island and and north pender are trading bylaws um perhaps salt spring

[3:42:35] Voice 11: Spring Island can offer some learnings on the proof of potable water bylaw for subdivision,

[3:42:41] Voice 1: which we've

[3:42:41] Voice 11: been working on really closely with the province. And that's going to go back to the

[3:42:47] Voice 11: LTC really soon. And that's going to then get referred out. So that was a lot of work that

[3:42:52] Voice 11: Jason and Christine and I put in. And I think that bylaw can be considered in the phase three

[3:43:03] Voice 11: of the groundwater sustainability strategy as well in addition to to everything and it can be

[3:43:08] Voice 11: actually site specific to the findings of of that project as well i

[3:43:13] Trustee Morrison: would love it william if there

[3:43:14] Trustee Morrison: was a way for you to just like i i know we can probably like dig through all the documents to

[3:43:20] Trustee Morrison: find it but if there was some way just to lift that so we can see it more clearly in our next

[3:43:24] Trustee Morrison: agenda or even in the email in between something like that what

[3:43:28] Voice 11: what what do you want to say just

[3:43:29] Trustee Morrison: said like the draft bylaws that they're putting forward for that it'd be good to just be able to

[3:43:34] Trustee Morrison: see that so we can see what that might look like yeah

[3:43:38] Voice 11: i'll have to talk with jason to see when it's

[3:43:40] Voice 11: going to go on that and i think that the salt spring on ltc should see before you guys but yeah

[3:43:46] Voice 11: but um yeah i'll i'll touch base with jason to see where we're on that project all

[3:43:51] Trustee Patrick: right any

[3:43:52] Trustee Patrick: other questions on applications move on we have the expense reports here generally for your

[3:43:57] Trustee Patrick: information. And then we have a Naptic application on page 111. Oh, did I skip over? Oh, standing

[3:44:08] Trustee Patrick: resolutions. I jumped over the standing resolutions. Are there any changes that need to be

[3:44:14] Trustee Patrick: made to those? No. Okay. Then we have a Naptic on page 111. Who's going to give that report?

[3:44:23] Trustee Patrick: anybody does is that just for information i

[3:44:30] Voice 3: think uh yeah it's a memo so yeah yeah i don't think

[3:44:34] Trustee McConchie: there's a real lisa bale and peter perry are awesome and they're and

[3:44:38] Trustee McConchie: they're donating land

[3:44:39] Trustee McConchie: that's not going to be touched you know um i think that's amazing that's that's the vibe i got from

[3:44:45] Trustee McConchie: this reading this

[3:44:46] Trustee Morrison: that's really great all

[3:44:49] Trustee Patrick: right then moving on have you added a new business you

[3:44:53] Trustee Patrick: wanted to just circle back on the helicopters is there anything else that you want to add on that

[3:44:57] Trustee Patrick: yeah

[3:44:58] Trustee Morrison: i'd love to hear a staff's response to the comments that we heard in the town hall today

[3:45:02] Trustee Morrison: and i know off the top is never a happy thing for our staff but um i think my concern is like the

[3:45:11] Trustee Morrison: i understand that the bylaw that's on self-pender is potentially not enforceable

[3:45:17] Trustee Morrison: um but from everything that i've read and looked at as well in this area it doesn't seem like

[3:45:23] Trustee Morrison: like anything is enforceable anywhere with relation to the environment other than like

[3:45:27] Trustee Morrison: safety issues related to the helicopter and crashing like like you know the actual safety

[3:45:35] Trustee Morrison: of the people in the helicopter is the only sort of enforceable move here and I'm you know that's

[3:45:41] Trustee Morrison: a little bit of an oversimplification but I'm just I'm just saying like there is no as far as I can

[3:45:48] Trustee Morrison: there's no jurisdiction that has said anything about environmental protection related to low

[3:45:54] Trustee Morrison: flying how like aircraft like helicopters in the trust area and so i i'd rather do something and

[3:46:03] Trustee Morrison: be challenged and try to have to make that argument than do nothing so i'm struggling with

[3:46:08] Trustee Morrison: next steps there and i would just want like a quick conversation yeah

[3:46:12] Voice 3: i think you're correct

[3:46:13] Voice 3: and your summary of the situation there steve morrison um i guess the first thing is to

[3:46:22] Voice 3: come to the comments at the town hall like no these are not brushed off

[3:46:28] Voice 3: there's an open file enforcement file we've done a fair bit of research on other situations where

[3:46:35] Voice 3: there's been helicopters landing on private property looked at other legal opinions looked

[3:46:41] Voice 3: looked at court cases, discussed it fairly widely.

[3:46:47] Voice 3: And then most recently,

[3:46:51] Voice 3: by law enforcement manager is gonna get a legal opinion

[3:46:55] Voice 3: just to see if there is any capability or authority

[3:47:01] Voice 3: for local trust committee to enforce.

[3:47:03] Voice 3: But generally, yeah, aeronautics is federal jurisdiction

[3:47:07] Voice 3: under the constitution,

[3:47:09] Voice 3: similar and a good analogy that maybe people can be familiar with is shipping and navigation.

[3:47:18] Voice 3: That falls within that same constitutional area that's exclusive to federal jurisdiction.

[3:47:26] Voice 3: And it seems like, judging from the answer that MP May's office got,

[3:47:33] Voice 3: is that um there is an absence of federal regulation of some aspects of um aeronautics

[3:47:43] Voice 3: including helicopters landing on private property in rural areas and um i guess well well that's

[3:47:53] Voice 3: that's sort of what we want to explore is that is that inter interstices there that if there's a

[3:47:59] Voice 3: a vacuum of federal action in terms of regulation doesn't necessarily mean that another level of

[3:48:07] Voice 3: government can step into that vacuum if it's not their jurisdiction

[3:48:09] Trustee Morrison: right so so i'm going to see

[3:48:15] Trustee Morrison: if i can echo back what i'm understanding so perhaps it's something that transport canada

[3:48:21] Trustee Morrison: needs to tighten up on their regulations to include environmental components yeah that would

[3:48:26] Voice 3: would be a succinct way just just just because they've chosen not to have regulations in an

[3:48:34] Voice 3: area of federal jurisdiction doesn't mean that another level of government can step into that

[3:48:39] Voice 3: area yeah but we're gonna that's something we're gonna ask so

[3:48:42] Trustee Morrison: and and that's what you're asking

[3:48:44] Trustee Morrison: with the bylaw like enforcement space is that what the yeah

[3:48:47] Voice 3: we're gonna get a legal opinion on

[3:48:48] Voice 3: that okay

[3:48:49] Trustee Morrison: so and um i apologize again it's been a what i can't i've been calling it my hurricane

[3:48:56] Trustee Morrison: month on a personal level so i'm not tracking the details as well this month um so can somebody

[3:49:04] Trustee Morrison: remind me um if we did we write a letter saying that we don't want helicopters i feel like we did

[3:49:10] Trustee Morrison: that okay

[3:49:11] Voice 3: that was the follow-up action okay

[3:49:12] Trustee Morrison: right right thank you and that letter went to

[3:49:16] Trustee Morrison: transportation transport canada

[3:49:18] Trustee Morrison: okay okay um are we within our bounds as trustees instead of just

[3:49:24] Trustee Morrison: the trust count a local trust council given that there is a letter in play from the ltc to like

[3:49:31] Trustee Morrison: engage with transport canada or with our elected like federal officials or is because i am perfectly

[3:49:39] Trustee Morrison: happy to continue poking at that like um transport canada bin because i agree with you actually i

[3:49:45] Trustee Morrison: I think it is Transport Canada's area to regulate,

[3:49:47] Trustee Morrison: but I also think they should like get on board

[3:49:49] Trustee Morrison: and like, you know, regulate around environmental issues.

[3:49:52] Trustee Morrison: And so, and they have better mechanisms, frankly,

[3:49:57] Trustee Morrison: for enforcement in terms of some of the fines

[3:50:00] Trustee Morrison: and things that they can do.

[3:50:02] Trustee Morrison: So it'd be awesome if they can do that.

[3:50:04] Voice 3: Yep.

[3:50:05] Voice 3: So there's nothing stopping individual trustees

[3:50:07] Voice 3: from advocating particularly with the MP, right?

[3:50:10] Voice 3: To politician to politician level.

[3:50:12] Trustee Patrick: And this is

[3:50:13] Trustee Patrick: a broader issue of, you know,

[3:50:15] Trustee Patrick: When I think of all the islands up and down the coast that are being attractive for development and higher end development, that all of these areas should be protected.

[3:50:28] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, it gets a broader approach.

[3:50:30] Trustee Patrick: Yes, it's one thing to come in and extract a person in an emergency.

[3:50:35] Trustee McConchie: Yeah, I think this discussion should go into in-camera because I believe that the only logical course is to pursue legal options.

[3:50:43] Trustee McConchie: because based on the way Transport Canada operates which is just absolutely the weirdest thing ever

[3:50:50] Trustee McConchie: because I know on one side over here on the island there's a whole bunch of freighters anchored and

[3:50:56] Trustee McConchie: you got tankers going through here that they approve on the other side of the island here

[3:51:00] Trustee McConchie: you have a whale sanctuary zone where you're not allowed any boats right and and like it's this

[3:51:05] Trustee McConchie: random Transport Canada I don't know they just come up with random ideas and it's not cohesive

[3:51:10] Trustee McConchie: of protecting the environment right now so i

[3:51:13] Trustee McConchie: would not hold out any hope on the on the federal

[3:51:15] Trustee McConchie: liberal government making any changes the correct way i think to approach this is from a legal

[3:51:20] Trustee McConchie: perspective i i mean advocating the transport canada has been useless with regards to freighter

[3:51:26] Trustee McConchie: anchorages like they're not they haven't done anything they just oh thank you thank you for

[3:51:31] Trustee McConchie: your comments it's all it is it's platitudes and then it's pretty useless so uh that's why i want

[3:51:37] Trustee McConchie: the discussion going in camera I think

[3:51:39] Trustee Patrick: okay all right so any other combinations come anything else

[3:51:45] Trustee Patrick: on that at this point so we'll thought we'll wait for to hear from Warren and you're welcome to

[3:51:51] Trustee Patrick: bash away on our federal federal MPs um I don't know if I'm bashing

[3:51:58] Trustee Morrison: no I meant

[3:52:01] Trustee Patrick: And

[3:52:01] Trustee Morrison: I think the last point on that is that, like, like, I agree, it may not be very effective,

[3:52:08] Trustee Morrison: but I think it's an all prongs attack on this particular issue right now. So everything we

[3:52:13] Trustee Morrison: can think to make it happen in some way.

[3:52:17] Trustee Patrick: Poke away, maybe that was a better word than

[3:52:19] Trustee Patrick: bash, sorry. Okay. So we have a meeting coming up on May 12th at four o'clock is going to be

[3:52:29] Trustee Patrick: our next special meeting on the land use by bylaw project as we carry on and then our next regular

[3:52:35] Trustee Patrick: meetings on may 27th uh with that we have a town hall i'm gonna i know we have a town hall but we

[3:52:41] Trustee Patrick: also have to have we have an in-camera session here so if anyone wants to address us i'm going

[3:52:46] Trustee Patrick: to be extremely strict and ask that you stick to two minutes uh because uh we have uh more meeting

[3:52:53] Trustee Patrick: yet that we need to attend to here so just a reminder to speak to issues we're not going to

[3:52:58] Trustee Patrick: rework any decisions that we made today that's and so anyone that wishes to make any brief

[3:53:05] Trustee Patrick: comments at this time please raise your hand and again we're always wanting to hear from you and

[3:53:12] Trustee Patrick: to send emails to southinfo at islandstrust.bc.ca I'm not seeing any hands being ripped somebody's

[3:53:23] Trustee Patrick: hand came up Michael Sketch hello Michael so I'm going to limit you to two minutes

[3:53:29] Trustee Patrick: uh

[3:53:31] Voice 12: hello can you hear me yes

[3:53:33] Trustee Patrick: um

[3:53:34] Voice 12: i'd like to ask thank you for addressing the issue of where gravel

[3:53:38] Voice 12: will be stored before this uh for this magic lake sewer pipe replacement project um my question is

[3:53:46] Voice 12: given the history of 2012 where the excavated roadwork spoils are going to be stored and

[3:53:53] Voice 12: and whether or not the road surfacing material

[3:53:57] Voice 12: will be re-crushed, stored and put back down.

[3:54:01] Voice 12: Maybe there's contract provision for that,

[3:54:05] Voice 12: but the LTC I hope has a firm hand on that.

[3:54:09] Voice 12: It was a mess last time.

[3:54:10] Voice 12: Thank you.

[3:54:10] Trustee Patrick: All right, thank you very much.

[3:54:12] Trustee Patrick: Thank you for being brief.

[3:54:16] Trustee Patrick: I don't know if anyone wants to address that question

[3:54:20] Trustee Patrick: or is that gonna be part of the temporary use permit

[3:54:22] Trustee Patrick: it addresses all of that so

[3:54:26] Trustee Morrison: um and i guess it hasn't been assigned so we haven't seen the

[3:54:29] Trustee Morrison: details in the temporary use permit so i think that's just a flag for us um i did ask some

[3:54:35] Trustee Morrison: questions about that um when i've talked with various folks involved um my initial responses

[3:54:43] Trustee Morrison: were that there aren't roads well so i definitely have questions for the project manager who i'm

[3:54:48] Trustee Morrison: meeting with this weekend hopefully all

[3:54:50] Trustee Patrick: right thank you anyone else that wishes to address us

[3:54:53] Trustee Patrick: today all right not seeing any again please always send your emails to south info at

[3:55:02] Trustee Patrick: islandstrust.bc.ca trustees as we always want to hear from you and with that we're going to be

[3:55:08] Trustee Patrick: going into an in-camera session um and i need a motion so thank you everyone for joining us today

[3:55:15] Trustee Patrick: and i need one of the trustees to read the motion from page three of our agenda package

[3:55:20] Trustee Patrick: um

[3:55:20] Trustee McConchie: i can do that if you want so um i'd like to make a motion that the meeting be closed to the

[3:55:29] Trustee McConchie: public in accordance with the community charter part four division three section 90 uh i don't

[3:55:34] Trustee McConchie: know how to read this parenthesis 1 ad i for the purpose of considering adoption of in-camera

[3:55:41] Trustee McConchie: meeting minutes dated march 26 2021 appointment of apc members and legal advice and that the

[3:55:49] Trustee McConchie: recorder and staff attend the meeting is

[3:55:51] Trustee Patrick: there a second thing the second is very trusty morrison

[3:55:54] Trustee Patrick: any discussion i'll call the vote all those in favor and that is carried all right so maple i

[3:56:02] Trustee Patrick: think we have a different um do we need to leave leave this meeting and uh yes

[3:56:10] Voice 16: do you plan to come

[3:56:11] Voice 16: back uh chair patrick or you want to rise and report the next following meeting either or it's

[3:56:16] Voice 16: fine just to let the uh attendees know yeah yeah

[3:56:20] Trustee Patrick: i think rise and report in the next meeting just

[3:56:22] Trustee Patrick: Just to make

[3:56:22] Trustee Patrick: easier sense.

[3:56:23] Trustee Patrick: So we'll leave this meeting.

[3:56:25] Voice 16: Okay.

[3:56:26] Voice 16: And I forward you all the link to the in-camera session meeting.

[3:56:30] Trustee Patrick: Yep.

[3:56:31] Trustee Patrick: Okay.

[3:56:32] Trustee Patrick: All right.

[3:56:33] Trustee Patrick: Well, thank you, everyone.