Islands Trust Council regular meeting, May 10, 2021

[0:00:00] Trustee Middleton: okay yeah i think um that's i believe everybody who was uh planning to attend is in fact now

[0:00:08] Trustee Middleton: in attendance and so um without uh further ado i'd like to call our uh select um committee for

[0:00:18] Trustee Middleton: the governance management review of the trust to order and acknowledge that we're meeting on

[0:00:22] Trustee Middleton: the traditional territories of the coast salish peoples i'm speaking from the traditional territory

[0:00:27] Trustee Middleton: of the Southern SACIM, Nations of the Wasanich people, and we are grateful and thankful for the

[0:00:37] Trustee Middleton: privilege of doing so. So without further ado, I'd just like to ask if there's anything that

[0:00:45] Trustee Middleton: anybody wishes to add to the agenda. All right, good. We have introductions coming in a moment.

[0:00:58] Trustee Middleton: We'll just take care of this, the business items of the meeting, if you'll

[0:01:03] Trustee Middleton: if you'll indulge us and we'll once we get to the business items we'll do a round of introductions

[0:01:08] Trustee Middleton: um so seeing may i see that our agenda is adopted by consent then seeing no further additions

[0:01:17] Trustee Middleton: thank you um uh the resolution of that meeting is is attached and you'll see that because we

[0:01:24] Trustee Middleton: were unsure of when we would next be meeting because we didn't know what the consultant's

[0:01:29] Trustee Middleton: availability was we didn't declare a meeting date in public and so consequently we had to use a

[0:01:35] Trustee Middleton: resolution without meeting for this meeting and that is attached and thank you Laurie for

[0:01:41] Trustee Middleton: coordinating and engineering that with such short notice and so I'll just proceed if there's no

[0:01:50] Trustee Middleton: questions on any of these items and the follow-up action list you'll see is attached and thanks

[0:01:56] Trustee Middleton: again to staff for uh okay so you have a question trust me the

[0:02:00] Trustee Middleton: draft

[0:02:01] Voice 13: minutes we have to adopt the

[0:02:04] Voice 13: draft minutes thank

[0:02:05] Trustee Middleton: you thank you for that yes i just breezed right through those good night how

[0:02:09] Trustee Middleton: rude um so yes so the minutes are attached in our package april 19th any any adjustments corrections

[0:02:16] Trustee Middleton: additions please uh please raise your hand if so okay seeing on i'll i'll uh i'll ask for a motion

[0:02:26] Trustee Middleton: motion to adopt the minutes of the April 19th meeting

[0:02:28] Voice 8: as Trustee

[0:02:30] Trustee Middleton: Cahill and second would be

[0:02:32] Trustee Middleton: uh Trustee Longer I said in favor aye thank

[0:02:38] Trustee Middleton: you um so going back to 3.3 the follow-up action list I

[0:02:44] Trustee Middleton: think um um that item let me just make sure I'm not overlooking anything again my apologies um

[0:02:56] Voice 6: We're

[0:03:07] Trustee Middleton: all up to any questions about the follow-up action list?

[0:03:10] Trustee Middleton: It looks like we're all up to date there.

[0:03:13] Trustee Middleton: We, of course, need to choose a set of meetings, which we will do at the end of this meeting

[0:03:17] Trustee Middleton: for the next seven, eight months.

[0:03:21] Trustee Middleton: We haven't done so yet.

[0:03:23] Trustee Middleton: Yes, in this capacity, it feels strange to say, but trustee Luck.

[0:03:29] Trustee Middleton: Oh, and you're muted, Peter.

[0:03:35] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, thank you.

[0:03:36] Trustee Luckham: I was reviewing the agenda there.

[0:03:39] Trustee Luckham: just it's kind of a follow-up action list related but it's not on the follow-up action list and

[0:03:45] Trustee Luckham: i didn't know i didn't want to make a new business item but just a question about

[0:03:49] Trustee Luckham: um when uh will the select committee members myself and others um that have not seen the

[0:03:57] Trustee Luckham: successful proposal uh from the uh contractor have that opportunity to review that proposal

[0:04:03] Trustee Luckham: that would have been helpful to have seen that prior to this meeting actually is there an answer

[0:04:08] Trustee Luckham: to that question that

[0:04:10] Trustee Middleton: is a good question uh one to which i do not have an answer you're right that

[0:04:16] Trustee Middleton: perhaps we should have um well you see i'm not i'm not sure we would have to take the guidance um

[0:04:24] Trustee Middleton: perhaps of our ceo here because technically that the document is confidential to the public

[0:04:29] Trustee Middleton: but of course perhaps not confidential to uh the select committee do you have anything ceo that you

[0:04:36] Trustee Middleton: you might be able to offer a way of guidance there.

[0:04:37] Voice 14: Well, thanks Mr. Chair.

[0:04:39] Voice 14: Yeah, no, this is a public procurement document

[0:04:41] Voice 14: and as such it was much of that's proprietary information

[0:04:46] Voice 14: and we're doing outreach

[0:04:47] Voice 14: to some of the proponents as well.

[0:04:50] Voice 14: So releasing it as presented

[0:04:52] Voice 14: probably wouldn't be the most appropriate course of action

[0:04:55] Voice 14: but I see nothing wrong with essentially

[0:04:57] Voice 14: culling out the key elements associated with the response

[0:05:00] Voice 14: response and providing the substantial package that Mr. Kelly and his team put together.

[0:05:08] Voice 14: So that can certainly be put forward.

[0:05:10] Voice 14: And as I understand it, the scope of work that's attached today is a brief overview

[0:05:16] Voice 14: or summary of some of the more specifics that are in their proposal.

[0:05:21] Voice 14: So with the direction of the committee, I don't see any problem with, and working with

[0:05:26] Voice 14: Mr. Kelly, I don't see any problem with taking the effective substance, that document, and getting it to you.

[0:05:33] Trustee Middleton: Okay. Any comment to that effect?

[0:05:38] Trustee Luckham: So do you want a motion to that effect when you said direction?

[0:05:44] Trustee Luckham: Sure.

[0:05:44] Trustee Luckham: So I would move then, if that's all right, Chair, I would move that the Select Committee request staff to prepare a committee-suitable rendition of the successful proponent's proposal.

[0:06:04] Voice 5: And,

[0:06:05] Trustee Luckham: Laurie, is that good?

[0:06:14] Trustee Middleton: we'll assume lori is getting that down now before i ask for a second i see

[0:06:18] Trustee Middleton: uh trustee longer i see you seconded the motion so we'll just wait for lori to get the wording

[0:06:27] Voice 2: shall i just read that back that the select committee requests staff to prepare a committee

[0:06:32] Voice 2: a committee suitable rendition of the successful proponents proposal is

[0:06:40] Trustee Middleton: that acceptable uh trustee

[0:06:42] Trustee Middleton: luckham does that it

[0:06:44] Voice 3: gets the drift of it i think for circulation to the for for the yeah for the

[0:06:49] Voice 3: committee for the king and

[0:06:52] Trustee Middleton: that was um obviously moved by trustee luckham and seconded by uh vice

[0:06:57] Trustee Middleton: chair longer race and i'll just wait a second before we call the vote okay so calling the vote

[0:07:09] Trustee Middleton: in favor uh that that carries that past uh and so uh just to further notice the actual uh contract

[0:07:19] Trustee Middleton: document, in essence, synthesizes the proposal into what will be delivered and when delivered.

[0:07:26] Trustee Middleton: And I'm thinking that large portions of that are suitable probably for distribution to the

[0:07:32] Trustee Middleton: committee, with perhaps the exception of some of the financial arrangements between the trust and

[0:07:38] Trustee Middleton: the consultants. Obviously, the budget amount is a public figure, and that's $75,000.

[0:07:44] Trustee Middleton: um so that's uh you know that that's that's known um but um i think that should be that's

[0:07:55] Trustee Middleton: that's as much information then uh um as as the um evaluation group had um been presented with so

[0:08:03] Trustee Middleton: that that seems um to address your uh your question or request there um trustee like i'm so

[0:08:14] Trustee Middleton: So, excellent.

[0:08:17] Trustee Middleton: I

[0:08:19] Trustee Critchley: have a question.

[0:08:22] Trustee Middleton: Yes, Trustee Ketchley.

[0:08:24] Trustee Middleton: Please go ahead.

[0:08:26] Trustee Critchley: Would we be receiving those things for an in-camera meeting,

[0:08:30] Trustee Critchley: or is it contemplated that these documents are broadly available?

[0:08:39] Trustee Middleton: I'll turn to the CEO in a second,

[0:08:41] Trustee Middleton: but my understanding is that these are actually, in essence,

[0:08:45] Trustee Middleton: once they're presented to the committee,

[0:08:49] Trustee Middleton: they're in essence publicly available documents um but ceo if there's anything you would care

[0:08:55] Trustee Middleton: to add there that's

[0:08:58] Voice 14: correct so any any documents

[0:09:03] Trustee Middleton: any concern trustee critchley is that oh according

[0:09:09] Trustee Middleton: okay um okay um if there's no further questions on the the follow-up action list um i would seek

[0:09:20] Trustee Middleton: that we move on to new business.

[0:09:23] Trustee Middleton: And

[0:09:31] Voice 6: the

[0:09:36] Trustee Middleton: first item of new business

[0:09:37] Trustee Middleton: is to, a little belatedly it seems,

[0:09:39] Trustee Middleton: so our apologies,

[0:09:40] Trustee Middleton: but it's to introduce ourselves.

[0:09:43] Trustee Middleton: And so I know your screen order

[0:09:48] Trustee Middleton: is a little bit different,

[0:09:49] Trustee Middleton: but if we could start introducing ourselves

[0:09:52] Trustee Middleton: as trustees and perhaps in deference

[0:09:57] Trustee Middleton: of your senior role,

[0:10:00] Trustee Middleton: I'll introduce Trustee Luckum from Thetis Islands,

[0:10:04] Trustee Middleton: who's actually Chair of Trust Council.

[0:10:07] Trustee Middleton: So if you don't mind proceeding first.

[0:10:10] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Lee, for that honor.

[0:10:13] Trustee Luckham: Peter Luckum, as Chair Middleton has said,

[0:10:17] Trustee Luckham: elected on Thetis Island,

[0:10:19] Trustee Luckham: which I'm grateful to live in Lyakson

[0:10:24] Trustee Luckham: and Penelakut territory in the Salish Sea here.

[0:10:30] Trustee Luckham: And I've been elected a number of years,

[0:10:34] Trustee Luckham: 12 or 14 years, something like that.

[0:10:36] Trustee Luckham: I'm sitting on executive committee for three terms.

[0:10:40] Trustee Luckham: This is my second term as chair.

[0:10:42] Trustee Luckham: So really glad to see you guys here

[0:10:44] Trustee Luckham: and look forward to this project.

[0:10:47] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[0:10:49] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[0:10:49] Trustee Middleton: And you'll note in the agenda that in just a moment,

[0:10:53] Trustee Middleton: we're we're going to open up the floor to trustees who can express their um their uh any comments or

[0:11:00] Trustee Middleton: hopes or expectations they might have or wish to see realized through this review they can sort of

[0:11:05] Trustee Middleton: speak in a more general or even specific manner at that at that point um so now i would i would

[0:11:11] Trustee Middleton: turn to the vice chair of of um the select committee which is uh case longer i selected

[0:11:18] Trustee Middleton: elected on Gabriel Island.

[0:11:19] Voice 13: Yeah, well, as Lee has already introduced myself

[0:11:22] Voice 13: as Case Longoria's trustee for Gabriel Island

[0:11:26] Voice 13: in Sanemo territory where I've lived for over 40 years.

[0:11:32] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[0:11:33] Trustee Middleton: And I think next I will move down to South Pender

[0:11:36] Trustee Middleton: and Trustee Steve Wright.

[0:11:41] Voice 9: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[0:11:42] Voice 9: Yes, Steve Wright, South Pender Island trustee.

[0:11:45] Voice 9: And we are on the home ground of the Osanich people.

[0:11:50] Voice 9: and my two have lived here for a little over 40 years as well.

[0:11:55] Voice 9: I'm really thankful that we have this group in front of us

[0:12:01] Voice 9: and I'm looking forward to working with them, thanks.

[0:12:03] Trustee Middleton: Thank you and next please, Trustee Cahill from Bowen Island.

[0:12:09] Voice 11: Yes, indeed, good afternoon.

[0:12:11] Voice 11: Michael Cahill from Bowen Island

[0:12:12] Voice 11: where I'm also a municipal councillor.

[0:12:15] Voice 11: And I just want to say how really, really delighted I am

[0:12:19] Voice 11: to see everyone in front of us. May the 10th is kind of a bellwether date because little did we

[0:12:27] Voice 11: believe in early September when we first as a group started a discussion amongst ourselves

[0:12:33] Voice 11: which has actually got us to this point that we would actually get here and I can't tell you how

[0:12:41] Voice 11: pleased I am to see you all and I for one look forward to having some meaningful discussions

[0:12:48] Voice 11: with you and getting to know you all better.

[0:12:51] Voice 11: I just want to know that your presence

[0:12:53] Voice 11: is hugely appreciated and thank you.

[0:12:57] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Trustee Cahill.

[0:13:01] Trustee Middleton: And Trustee Brent from Saturna Island, please.

[0:13:04] Voice 7: Yes, hello everyone.

[0:13:06] Voice 7: I'm Trustee Brent from Saturna Island.

[0:13:07] Voice 7: I've lived here for about 20 years.

[0:13:09] Voice 7: Cheerios.

[0:13:12] Trustee Middleton: And Trustee Brent is I, doing the background voice

[0:13:16] Trustee Middleton: is on his third term as a trustee, I believe.

[0:13:20] Trustee Middleton: leave. So has as many as the round table has a lot of experience to offer. And have I missed

[0:13:30] Trustee Middleton: anyone from the trustee side? I don't think so. I'm sorry. Oh, trustee Critchley. There you are

[0:13:39] Trustee Middleton: top left corner now. Thank you.

[0:13:42] Trustee Critchley: Thank you. David Critchley from Denman Island,

[0:13:45] Trustee Critchley: known in the Coast Salish language as Clash D'Aich.

[0:13:51] Trustee Critchley: I'm approximately a 22-year resident of the island

[0:13:55] Trustee Critchley: and in my second term as an island trustee.

[0:13:58] Trustee Critchley: And I'm very pleased to see you all on Zoom today.

[0:14:05] Trustee Middleton: And next, I'd like to introduce our CAO.

[0:14:08] Trustee Middleton: We're very pleased to have him as part of this group.

[0:14:11] Trustee Middleton: Russ Hotson-Piller, if you would like to introduce yourself, please, sir.

[0:14:14] Voice 14: Well, thanks, Chair Middleton. Good afternoon to all trustees and good wishes to the great northern group. It's good to meet you. I'm speaking to you from Lekwungen speaking territory and humbly grateful to be doing that.

[0:14:30] Voice 14: I've been with the trust about five, five and a half years as the chief administrative officer

[0:14:34] Voice 14: and prior to that I did the same job CAO for the Strathcona Regional District in the northern part

[0:14:40] Voice 14: of Vancouver Island, also a very island-centric portion of BC. So please be with you and look

[0:14:46] Voice 14: forward to the next few months.

[0:14:49] Trustee Middleton: Thank you and a quick question from Trustee Luckum,

[0:14:54] Trustee Middleton: please go ahead.

[0:14:55] Trustee Luckham: Perhaps before you move too far along you might introduce the absent members

[0:14:59] Trustee Luckham: fair enough

[0:15:01] Trustee Middleton: good point yeah there's so there are two two members two trustees who are not able to

[0:15:05] Trustee Middleton: be with us uh trustee deb morrison is um is a trustee on north pender island and actually um

[0:15:14] Trustee Middleton: her colleague is uh as trustee uh ben mcconkey is is um he's also a trustee on north pender island

[0:15:22] Trustee Middleton: uh when we come to it's unfortunate that they've not been able to be with us due to scheduling

[0:15:27] Trustee Middleton: in conflict and when we discuss the meeting times i you know i have a little bit of information we

[0:15:34] Trustee Middleton: could share there i don't know how well we're going to be able to accommodate but we can discuss

[0:15:39] Trustee Middleton: so they there are absent absent members and then i think finally from staff uh who was ably assists

[0:15:48] Trustee Middleton: us and we probably couldn't do this without her is is uh laurie foster who if you could introduce

[0:15:54] Trustee Middleton: yourself please hello

[0:15:55] Voice 2: everybody my name is laurie foster i'm executive coordinator at islands trust

[0:15:59] Voice 2: i've been in this position about three and a half years i've been with the trust approximately seven

[0:16:04] Voice 2: and i'm grateful to live and work in the quangan territory here in esquimalt

[0:16:09] Trustee Middleton: thank you laurie appreciate it um and now uh charles pleasure um would would would it uh

[0:16:16] Trustee Middleton: may i ask you to do as the project manager of this um of this of this team may i ask you to um

[0:16:24] Trustee Middleton: field the introductions, or I can do so if you wish, because I can see everybody on the screen,

[0:16:29] Trustee Middleton: but I thought you might like to just say a few words. So over to you, sir.

[0:16:33] Voice 17: I'd like to thank you, Lee, and I'd like to, and councillors, I'd like to

[0:16:41] Voice 17: help with these introductions, you know, because I probably incorrectly assumed that everybody had

[0:16:47] Voice 17: seen the proposal and now, you know, had our CVs and everything in front of you. So I think,

[0:16:53] Voice 17: what we'll have to do is sort of introduce ourselves and provide just a very, very brief

[0:17:01] Voice 17: description of where we come from, and it'll help as a way of identifying ourselves.

[0:17:08] Voice 17: I think one of the, you know, how we've organized ourselves is that I'm operating Charles Kelly as

[0:17:14] Voice 17: the project manager and president of Great Northern, and I have about 30 years experience

[0:17:22] Voice 17: in both project management and owning a couple of consulting companies that were national firms

[0:17:29] Voice 17: and working in both the public and private sectors for many of these years on both sides of the

[0:17:37] Voice 17: fences, so to speak. When I go through our team here, what we've assembled is subject matter

[0:17:44] Voice 17: matter experts in the particular areas that were raised by the, you know, by the RFP. And so I'll

[0:17:53] Voice 17: introduce them individually and give their SME focus and then, and then give them, let them give

[0:17:59] Voice 17: their own introduction themselves. So the first subject matter expert is on governance and that's

[0:18:07] Voice 17: MF or Mary Antoinette Flumian, but MF as she likes to call herself. So I'd ask MF to do a brief

[0:18:13] Voice 17: introduction herself, but she'll be leading the subject matter experts side of this analysis.

[0:18:22] Voice 17: You're muted.

[0:18:33] Voice 10: Am I good now? Yes. Okay. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here and thank you Charles for

[0:18:40] Voice 10: that. It's going to be fun working with all of you on what's a very important area of public policy

[0:18:49] Voice 10: and the way special purpose agencies function.

[0:18:53] Voice 10: I spent the first 35 years of my career

[0:18:55] Voice 10: working primarily for the federal government,

[0:18:57] Voice 10: but also one provincial government.

[0:19:00] Voice 10: I spent half of that career as a senior official

[0:19:03] Voice 10: and the last many, many years

[0:19:05] Voice 10: as a deputy minister in the federal system.

[0:19:08] Voice 10: My last job being the creation

[0:19:10] Voice 10: of something called Service Canada,

[0:19:12] Voice 10: which some of you may be aware of,

[0:19:14] Voice 10: and working in just about every portfolio

[0:19:16] Voice 10: in the federal system.

[0:19:19] Voice 10: I then retired and then quickly went off to join the University of Ottawa for a few years, running, they used to call them finishing programs for deputy ministers in the federal and provincial systems as we ran the program across the country.

[0:19:34] Voice 10: and then I went off for and I did that for three years and then I went off and spent the next 10

[0:19:39] Voice 10: years of being the president of the Institute on Governance a not-for-profit institution operating

[0:19:46] Voice 10: across the country in Canada and doing lots of work internationally including about nine years

[0:19:52] Voice 10: worth of work that took me to Iraq to rebuild the institutions of governance in that war-torn

[0:19:58] Voice 10: country. And then retiring again. I'm a failure at this retirement game. I started another practice

[0:20:08] Voice 10: and I have been working with First Nations across the country and currently have quite a few clients

[0:20:15] Voice 10: out BC way, including Musqueam, including the New Relationship Trust, including Hawaii

[0:20:24] Voice 10: Wyatt on Vancouver Island, including the Haida, just to name a few. The First Nations Summit as

[0:20:33] Voice 10: well. I happen to reside in Ottawa, although I spend a lot of time in British Columbia,

[0:20:39] Voice 10: and I currently reside in the unceded territory of the Algonquian Nation.

[0:20:44] Voice 10: So that's a little bit about me.

[0:20:47] Voice 17: Thank you, Hemef. Our land use expert is Eric Vance,

[0:20:53] Voice 17: and who has a storied career in land use and management consulting.

[0:20:59] Voice 17: So, Eric, will you introduce yourself, please?

[0:21:01] Voice 8: Thank you for that, Charles, and good afternoon, everybody.

[0:21:06] Voice 8: Yeah, I'm a land use planner.

[0:21:09] Voice 8: I wear a few hats.

[0:21:10] Voice 8: I'm also an economist and a management consultant,

[0:21:13] Voice 8: and I'm on the territory of the Ketse people,

[0:21:16] Voice 8: which, as some of you know, is the Pit Meadows, Maple Ridge area.

[0:21:21] Voice 8: So I got my start literally.

[0:21:23] Voice 8: Literally, I've just realized this 40 years ago this month with Coopers and Librand, Chartered Accountants and Management Consultants.

[0:21:32] Voice 8: I was in the consulting group.

[0:21:34] Voice 8: Of course, that's now PricewaterhouseCoopers.

[0:21:36] Voice 8: Did that for a number of years.

[0:21:38] Voice 8: Then I was with the City of Port Moody.

[0:21:41] Voice 8: So director of planning there for a few years.

[0:21:44] Voice 8: And for the past 26 years, I've had my own consulting firm.

[0:21:48] Voice 8: My focus is on consulting to local governments all over British Columbia, dozens and dozens of them over the years.

[0:21:57] Voice 8: And when I'm not doing that, I'm also an adjunct professor in the graduate planning program of resource and environmental management at SFU.

[0:22:08] Voice 17: Thank you, Eric. Our third subject matter expert is Jim Roach. And Jim, will you introduce yourself?

[0:22:17] Voice 17: Well,

[0:22:17] Voice 15: good afternoon, everyone. I'm just happy to be here, as everyone else has said that they are, that's for sure. I spent about 10 years inside government, basically in minister's offices. I spent another 10 years running a crown corporation via rail. I spent the next couple of decades leading some governance and public affairs consultancies.

[0:22:38] Voice 15: common

[0:22:38] Voice 16: denominator of all of that uh was that they they tended to be national in scope and there was

[0:22:43] Voice 16: always a british columbia component certainly when you're in the governor of canada and you're in

[0:22:47] Voice 16: minister's office british columbia is an important element of anything that you're doing and via rail

[0:22:52] Voice 16: i mean we had our rail services to prince rupert into vancouver as well as the swine

[0:22:57] Voice 16: nimel railway at that time running passenger services on the island so i was there often

[0:23:02] Voice 16: And when I was doing public affairs consultancy, my largest role was as CEO of GPC, which had two offices in British Columbia, Victoria, and Vancouver.

[0:23:15] Voice 16: And again, I was there often.

[0:23:17] Voice 16: I also worked at SACOR, which is Canada's largest privately held management consulting firm.

[0:23:23] Voice 16: And in that capacity, I headed their governance practice in Ottawa.

[0:23:27] Voice 16: of all uh so i have a focus on public affairs strategic planning and uh modestly speaking and

[0:23:34] Voice 16: always following guidance from mf in governance um and they're connected obviously and so i'm

[0:23:41] Voice 16: happy that to uh to work on this project and try to try to pull those things together by the way

[0:23:48] Voice 16: i'm still working with bc uh issues with the canadian marine pilots association and specifically

[0:23:54] Voice 16: you the BC Coast pilots who I've worked with for over 20 years and we worry collectively about

[0:24:00] Voice 16: some of the same issues that you do including anchorages and killer whales and pipelines and

[0:24:05] Voice 16: double hulled vessels and other matters. So there's a lot of familiar things in my life

[0:24:13] Voice 16: that I share with you.

[0:24:15] Voice 17: Thank you Jim. In terms of how the proposal is structured in our SMEs

[0:24:21] Voice 17: is that Jim is going to be being primarily responsible on the advocacy side.

[0:24:28] Voice 17: But when it comes to these broader recommendations,

[0:24:31] Voice 17: the focus will work together as a team as we go forward.

[0:24:35] Voice 17: I'd also like to introduce you to Lorraine Cole,

[0:24:39] Voice 17: who's our senior administrative manager,

[0:24:41] Voice 17: who keeps us all on track and makes sure that we're making our deadlines

[0:24:45] Voice 17: and that we work together and adds a value added

[0:24:49] Voice 17: and be an active participant in much of our research.

[0:24:53] Voice 17: Lorraine, would you like to introduce yourself?

[0:24:55] Voice 1: Good afternoon.

[0:24:56] Voice 1: Pleased to meet everyone.

[0:24:58] Voice 1: I'm a retired federal public servant.

[0:25:00] Voice 1: I spent most of my career in human resource management

[0:25:05] Voice 1: and then as a senior advisor to various deputy ministers.

[0:25:12] Voice 1: And since that time, I've worked in the not-for-profit sector

[0:25:15] Voice 1: and currently working with Mary Antoinette

[0:25:19] Voice 1: on contracts in British Columbia

[0:25:23] Voice 1: with the Aboriginal associations

[0:25:25] Voice 1: that she already mentioned.

[0:25:27] Voice 1: And I'm very excited to work on this project

[0:25:30] Voice 1: with this group.

[0:25:32] Voice 1: Thank you.

[0:25:34] Voice 17: Well, Lee, that's, and fellow councillors,

[0:25:37] Voice 17: this is our team.

[0:25:39] Voice 17: Like everyone said, we're very anxious.

[0:25:42] Voice 17: We've got started already

[0:25:43] Voice 17: and we look forward to working with this committee

[0:25:46] Voice 17: and we really see this as a collaborative effort

[0:25:49] Voice 17: to bring our experience together

[0:25:52] Voice 17: to try to address solutions to your concerns.

[0:25:55] Voice 17: So thank you very much.

[0:25:58] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[0:26:00] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Charles.

[0:26:01] Trustee Middleton: That was great.

[0:26:01] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, everyone, for introductions.

[0:26:03] Trustee Middleton: Very pleased to hear your background.

[0:26:05] Trustee Middleton: And I think for some of the committee members,

[0:26:07] Trustee Middleton: I should apologize because I realized

[0:26:09] Trustee Middleton: that some of you are at a disadvantage

[0:26:11] Trustee Middleton: when it comes to knowledge about this team

[0:26:14] Trustee Middleton: because, of course, you did not participate

[0:26:15] Trustee Middleton: in the evaluation group.

[0:26:17] Trustee Middleton: And so my apologies for that. And I should say in regard to the evaluation, we were very, very impressed by the level of expertise and experience that our seemingly lowly RFP generated.

[0:26:35] Trustee Middleton: And this team in particular, I think, understood closely what it was we were trying to do, not to knock holes in the trust, but to help at a kind of a structural level, look at how the trust may more strongly deliver on this mandate faced with the challenges of climate change and reconciliation.

[0:26:59] Trustee Middleton: conciliation. And so I can just say I'm very, very pleased to be working with this team. And

[0:27:06] Trustee Middleton: I'm really looking forward to the next number of months. So thank you for putting in the proposal

[0:27:13] Trustee Middleton: and thank you for doing this work with us. To some more mechanical details, perhaps right now,

[0:27:21] Trustee Middleton: is we're going to talk about just the role of the select committee and then after that,

[0:27:27] Trustee Middleton: the role of staff in terms of the of the review um the what i i could start by saying the role

[0:27:35] Trustee Middleton: of the select committee we've envisaged um we've not had a huge amount of uh of discussion about

[0:27:42] Trustee Middleton: this so obviously this is not just me talking i want to hear from uh some of the other committee

[0:27:47] Trustee Middleton: members and and staff but uh we had thought um just brainstorming that there would be a

[0:27:53] Trustee Middleton: a monthly meeting of this committee going going to toward the end of the of the contract and it

[0:28:01] Trustee Middleton: would be a a chance for each to respond in a meaningful way we're not looking to just have

[0:28:08] Trustee Middleton: a rubber-stamped select committee we want well primarily day-to-day issues will be as we'll talk

[0:28:17] Trustee Middleton: about in a moment addressed by by myself and and largely Russ when it comes to the interface with

[0:28:23] Trustee Middleton: staff um actual philosophical questions that emerge emerging points of inquiry i think it's

[0:28:31] Trustee Middleton: very important that we actually have that those discussions happen at around this committee table

[0:28:37] Trustee Middleton: and so to that end we're proposing um and i'm not sure who the we is now who agreed to this with me

[0:28:45] Trustee Middleton: so you'll have to excuse me it might be just that i'm proposing and then we could have discussion

[0:28:49] Trustee Middleton: But monthly meetings with the consultant or the consultant's representative just to talk about what's being learned and what the focus is looking like and what some maybe sharpening the inquiry could be or if there's just a need for assistance or feedback generally of one's ideas is always helpful.

[0:29:11] Trustee Middleton: And this group is, of course, very, very thoughtful, has spent months thinking on this issue and if not years in the capacity as trustees.

[0:29:21] Trustee Middleton: And so I think could help in a very real way.

[0:29:25] Trustee Middleton: And so we want to create that opportunity.

[0:29:27] Trustee Middleton: So that would be where we talk about role of the select committee would be, I guess, the key interface.

[0:29:34] Trustee Middleton: So any comments on that thought, monthly meetings, that is?

[0:29:48] Voice 9: don't everybody jump in at once but yes i

[0:29:50] Voice 9: certainly think i certainly think getting

[0:29:52] Voice 9: together at least once a month is beneficial for everybody yeah

[0:29:56] Voice 13: yeah i have to concur with that i

[0:29:59] Voice 13: mean we're

[0:30:00] Voice 13: Where you guys are the subject matter experts on a lot of this, like I'm a first term trustee, so I don't have a lot of the background information and my experience has been mainly working for the provincial government in a capacity as a manager.

[0:30:15] Voice 13: But so I don't see us as dictating what you do, but really just troubleshooting any issues that arise throughout the process or any points of clarification, as Trustee Middleton mentioned.

[0:30:30] Voice 13: So that's my sort of view of it.

[0:30:36] Trustee Middleton: Any further comments?

[0:30:39] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Critchley, please, and followed by Trustee Cahill.

[0:30:43] Trustee Critchley: Thank you.

[0:30:44] Trustee Critchley: I'd like to say I do support that, at least initially, to see how that goes.

[0:30:49] Trustee Critchley: I'm a little concerned about using up too much of your valuable time discussing and directing.

[0:30:55] Trustee Critchley: I think largely the direction will be, for me, the directions that this team proposes to go and sees their time best employed.

[0:31:06] Trustee Critchley: But certainly in the beginning stages, I think monthly meetings are a great idea. Thank you.

[0:31:12] Trustee Middleton: Thank

[0:31:12] Voice 11: you. And Trustee Cahill, please.

[0:31:14] Voice 11: Yeah, totally concur with the monthly meetings.

[0:31:18] Voice 11: And also would be interested, as I'm sure the other people are, the other trustees are, is the sort of scheduled opportunity to speak to the group on an individual basis as well.

[0:31:31] Voice 11: So they get to know us a little bit better, maybe the genesis of why we're all here.

[0:31:39] Voice 11: so I would definitely ask that that get noted that I can't think of one person in front of us

[0:31:47] Voice 11: who wouldn't like to speak to them on an individual basis and how that might be

[0:31:51] Voice 11: meaningfully and quickly scheduled.

[0:31:56] Trustee Middleton: Thank you Trustee Kelly. Any other comments before we turn

[0:32:00] Trustee Middleton: to I mean it's a pretty broad role for the committee of just saying we'll have monthly

[0:32:07] Trustee Middleton: check-ins but i think for now yes trustee luckham please so

[0:32:12] Trustee Luckham: um sort of broad concepts at this time

[0:32:17] Trustee Luckham: and i'm not sure uh certainly the monthly meetings are fantastic um to to monitor um how the uh

[0:32:25] Trustee Luckham: process is unfolding but i um there's i'll just say i'll just be frank and i'll just say that

[0:32:34] Trustee Luckham: But what's missing so far in this entire conversation is trust counsel and the concept of the we and this committee.

[0:32:47] Trustee Luckham: This committee is a body of trust counsel, and the work has been endorsed by trust counsel.

[0:32:56] Trustee Luckham: and although it might be interesting to think that the committee itself might direct and influence

[0:33:07] Trustee Luckham: the direction and the work of the consultant, I would certainly expect that that consultant

[0:33:14] Trustee Luckham: would be taking their direction and their work from council, and as outlined in the RFP,

[0:33:23] Trustee Luckham: that they've been successful with and again being quite frank part of the rationale for me

[0:33:31] Trustee Luckham: mentioning that about being objective is to be honest that the committee itself is weighted

[0:33:39] Trustee Luckham: heavily with proponents of the original proposal to conduct this governance and management review

[0:33:48] Trustee Luckham: review, which I'll say I'm in full support of.

[0:33:53] Trustee Luckham: And so I think I said that it's important that, or I think I suggested that the work

[0:34:00] Trustee Luckham: of the committee is to direct this work, not necessarily influence it over and above that

[0:34:06] Trustee Luckham: of any other trustee.

[0:34:07] Trustee Luckham: And that if we're interviewing select committee members, we also need to be interviewing trustees

[0:34:14] Trustee Luckham: because each voice is important and critical in this as there I think are a number of different

[0:34:21] Trustee Luckham: reasons for this having been endorsed by council and that may or may not necessarily be reflected

[0:34:30] Trustee Luckham: by individuals but certainly I have no doubt that all the individuals on the committee will also

[0:34:34] Trustee Luckham: reflect on the messages that they've heard from council but just to set that message up

[0:34:41] Trustee Luckham: that it's really critical that Trust Council be,

[0:34:45] Trustee Luckham: and Trust Council's perspective and reasons

[0:34:48] Trustee Luckham: for conducting this review are paramount

[0:34:52] Trustee Luckham: in the evolution of the discussion.

[0:34:56] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Trustee LeHun, thank you for that.

[0:34:59] Trustee Middleton: And Vice Chair Lange, I saw your hand.

[0:35:02] Voice 13: Yes, yeah, I just want to echo what Peter said.

[0:35:06] Voice 13: It's for a wide range of trustees to speak

[0:35:10] Voice 13: to the consultants in the interviews.

[0:35:11] Voice 13: It's not a matter, I don't think the intent was just that the select committee trustees

[0:35:17] Voice 13: would be the ones interviewed in the in the review so but yeah it should be a broad range

[0:35:23] Voice 13: of views provided.

[0:35:25] Trustee Middleton: And maybe just a technical question because I know obviously that we in the RFP intended

[0:35:32] Trustee Middleton: that all 26 trustees be be interviewed and have a chance for kind of a discourse input

[0:35:39] Trustee Middleton: input, and maybe to Charles, to your work plan, was the idea that you would basically

[0:35:47] Trustee Middleton: engage in those 26 interviews as part of the more formalized survey, or did you anticipate

[0:35:55] Trustee Middleton: talking to those 26 trustees kind of earlier in the review?

[0:36:04] Voice 17: Well, we'll be discussing some of that, which is on our agenda, you know, with respect

[0:36:08] Voice 17: to the work plan but the as you'll see from the work plan we're looking at two research tools

[0:36:15] Voice 17: you know one was a broad electronic you know a shorter review to to gather advocacy responses

[0:36:24] Voice 17: across you know your client groups as well as you know as one group and then we did intend to

[0:36:31] Voice 17: interview each all 26 councillors as a part of it and that this committee will have an opportunity

[0:36:40] Voice 17: to to review the questions in the in the electronic survey as well as the interview tools

[0:36:48] Voice 17: so that we're you know you know comparing apples to apples and we're getting to the kind of

[0:36:53] Voice 17: questions we want to you know to raise and try to find a consensus with respect to what we might

[0:36:58] Voice 17: bring forward so that was clearly our intention we know that's a labor intensive exercise but we

[0:37:04] Voice 17: think it's necessary in this case thank you thank

[0:37:07] Trustee Middleton: you yes so as as you said trust thank you we will

[0:37:11] Trustee Middleton: obviously be discussing further when we talk through the methodology um but duly noted that

[0:37:17] Trustee Middleton: obviously the input of all 26 trustees is is important and uh desired um any other comments

[0:37:25] Trustee Middleton: on just the role of the select committee

[0:37:27] Trustee Middleton: before we move on to the role of staff.

[0:37:33] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Critchley, please.

[0:37:36] Trustee Critchley: Thank you.

[0:37:36] Trustee Critchley: Just speaking to Chair Luckham's point,

[0:37:40] Trustee Critchley: I'm wondering if it is the wish of Chair Luckham

[0:37:43] Trustee Critchley: to actually have a representative of the team

[0:37:47] Trustee Critchley: appear at Trust Council next in June,

[0:37:51] Trustee Critchley: just by way of introduction or some part of the agenda,

[0:37:55] Trustee Critchley: agenda, because I would point out to the team members here that getting a management review

[0:38:04] Trustee Critchley: was somewhat of a fraught process, and it didn't get off to a good start, in my humble opinion.

[0:38:12] Trustee Critchley: For some reason or other, it appeared to be somewhat divisive, and our majority to

[0:38:18] Trustee Critchley: to actually engage a review was just by a simple,

[0:38:24] Trustee Critchley: by a majority of one vote.

[0:38:26] Trustee Critchley: So I think that's sort of an underlying factor

[0:38:30] Trustee Critchley: that you should understand as you embark upon this work,

[0:38:35] Trustee Critchley: but getting back to Trustee or Chair Luckham,

[0:38:38] Trustee Critchley: is it your wish or your intention

[0:38:41] Trustee Critchley: that this form part of the June meeting?

[0:38:45] Trustee Luckham: Well, thank you for that one, the comment,

[0:38:47] Trustee Luckham: trustee Critchley and the question, both very good.

[0:38:53] Trustee Luckham: I had not had any expectation or anticipation

[0:38:56] Trustee Luckham: of that at June council.

[0:38:59] Trustee Luckham: However, I think that if staff is able to prepare

[0:39:03] Trustee Luckham: a public ready document associated

[0:39:07] Trustee Luckham: with the successful proponent and a status update

[0:39:11] Trustee Luckham: from this committee to council,

[0:39:13] Trustee Luckham: I think that that might be sufficient.

[0:39:15] Trustee Luckham: but certainly if the proponent or if Charles and your team

[0:39:20] Trustee Luckham: felt that you wanted to meet council,

[0:39:24] Trustee Luckham: that there is still potential at this point

[0:39:27] Trustee Luckham: to include that in the agenda.

[0:39:29] Trustee Luckham: The agenda is evolving rapidly here

[0:39:31] Trustee Luckham: because it's not very far away.

[0:39:33] Trustee Luckham: And we do prepare that weeks and weeks in advance.

[0:39:36] Trustee Luckham: So I have no expectation about that.

[0:39:39] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Trustee Critchley,

[0:39:41] Trustee Luckham: but would certainly expect some kind of reporting out

[0:39:44] Trustee Luckham: and would be happy if it was not inconvenient

[0:39:48] Trustee Luckham: for a great Northern management to observe our council

[0:39:55] Trustee Luckham: if not actually speak to the council.

[0:40:00] Trustee Middleton: Okay, thank you.

[0:40:03] Trustee Middleton: So I believe the, well, we actually have on the agenda

[0:40:08] Trustee Middleton: after 4.4.1 is communications

[0:40:12] Trustee Middleton: because that was an outstanding matter

[0:40:14] Trustee Middleton: from our last meeting that we need to talk about

[0:40:16] Trustee Middleton: in concert with the consultant.

[0:40:18] Trustee Middleton: so perhaps at that point we can revisit the idea of participation in june um and uh and thank you

[0:40:25] Trustee Middleton: for that and so turning now to role of staff of course i just on my place to speak but the intent

[0:40:34] Trustee Middleton: was that of course um any staff resources to be um engaged with through our cao um that i you know as

[0:40:42] Trustee Middleton: the chair of the select committee have no no connection or ability to to uh make connection

[0:40:48] Trustee Middleton: with with staff resources and so um that that was obviously one very clear area where where our ceo

[0:40:56] Trustee Middleton: would be um the um actually we say coordinating person i don't know if that's the right word but

[0:41:02] Trustee Middleton: maybe before i get into that any further i'll just turn this over to our ceo and hear from him what

[0:41:08] Trustee Middleton: what his thoughts are on the role of staff in the review at this point.

[0:41:14] Voice 14: Well, thanks, Chair Middleton.

[0:41:18] Voice 14: Yeah, I think there's some layered role for the staff

[0:41:22] Voice 14: to contribute to a great outcome here.

[0:41:25] Voice 14: And I can speak to two or three of those.

[0:41:27] Voice 14: But I will mention that Mr. Kelly and I have had a couple of conversations so far.

[0:41:32] Voice 14: The group's made an initial request for documentation and materials,

[0:41:37] Voice 14: which we're working on as we speak.

[0:41:39] Voice 14: and of course that's going to be one of the roles of the staff and look forward to the next uh the

[0:41:44] Voice 14: next few months uh you know uh i would urge actually just on a on a tangent that um some

[0:41:52] Voice 14: member of the committee do turn into the june trust council session it's uh um a rare opportunity

[0:41:58] Voice 14: to see trust council happens four times a year in full flight and that would probably give you some

[0:42:05] Voice 14: insight into the organization um whether you're in full attendance or certain or um just observers

[0:42:11] Voice 14: uh so to the role of staff i think you know there's a few things as i said i think we will

[0:42:17] Voice 14: just by the nature of um timing and so forth be a primary liaison to mr kelly and his team

[0:42:25] Voice 14: we'll be monitoring the contract of course and the contractual arrangements that we have

[0:42:29] Voice 14: and as going over the next few months that you know so that's sort of a management function.

[0:42:36] Voice 14: Secondly I think we'll be the primary table setter for procuring information data

[0:42:45] Voice 14: organizing getting the information that's requested and if I'd humbly suggest that

[0:42:50] Voice 14: select committee might be an excellent body to suggest to the to the consultancy group

[0:42:57] Voice 14: who they should be speaking with, speaking around external agencies, First Nations,

[0:43:05] Voice 14: other contextualized bodies that have worked for the trust for a long time, you'll be a great

[0:43:09] Voice 14: shortcut in providing that advice to the select committee. So that's the second. And then the

[0:43:15] Voice 14: third, of course, is I expect there will be some direct participation by staff. Likely, the group

[0:43:22] Voice 14: will want to interview some of the staff, so that would be more of a participatory function. So

[0:43:26] Voice 14: So at least initially, I see those three roles.

[0:43:30] Voice 14: And keeping in mind the RFP process, you know, the winning bid as we have it, you know, very well put together, but necessarily speaks broadly about the subject areas at hand.

[0:43:43] Voice 14: And I think that probably over the next week or two, there'll be an opportunity for me to speak with Mr. Kelly or anyone else on the team to fill out how that exchanges of information will take place.

[0:43:56] Voice 14: How do we get the information in an ordered manner?

[0:43:59] Voice 14: And is there anything we're missing?

[0:44:00] Voice 14: And just put a little bit of thought and detail in facilitating that.

[0:44:06] Voice 14: So a bit of an engagement plan or something like that to get the right information.

[0:44:11] Voice 14: In a nutshell, Mr. Chair, I think that that would be it, sort of the broad strokes.

[0:44:21] Trustee Middleton: Thank you very much for that.

[0:44:22] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, and any questions from trustees or any questions from the team about staff engagement

[0:44:29] Trustee Middleton: at this point?

[0:44:30] Trustee Middleton: I note that CAO mentioned the ongoing dialogue with project manager, Mr. Kelly, which is

[0:44:36] Trustee Middleton: great, and it's a bit of an iterative process as we get going.

[0:44:42] Trustee Middleton: obviously we'll cross each bridge as we come to it, but for now, any questions? Trustee Critchley.

[0:44:52] Trustee Critchley: Thank you. Just a couple of things. One with respect to Trust Council. If there's any

[0:44:58] Trustee Critchley: materials that are going to be presented to Trust Council for this June term, and I think it would

[0:45:03] Trustee Critchley: be a good idea because I think if the CVs of the team members was presented, it would give a great

[0:45:13] Trustee Critchley: deal of credibility to this i'm very impressed with the backgrounds of the team members and

[0:45:18] Trustee Critchley: i think it would give a a great level of comfort uh particularly to the almost one half of trust

[0:45:25] Trustee Critchley: council who were skeptical about uh the whole review process so um secondly i've got a question

[0:45:33] Trustee Critchley: about confidentiality and whether the materials which are the responses which the team gets

[0:45:41] Trustee Critchley: from trustees and staff, whether it's by a survey form or from an in-person interview,

[0:45:49] Trustee Critchley: whether the received material will be treated confidentially. I say that not for my own part.

[0:45:59] Trustee Critchley: I'm happy to have my name attached to whatever materials I produce or what I say, but there may

[0:46:06] Trustee Critchley: may be others who are not so comfortable about that and i just like a team member to respond to

[0:46:11] Trustee Critchley: issues of confidentiality and such circumstances nothing

[0:46:17] Voice 10: should be for attribution unless decided

[0:46:20] Voice 10: um for some particular reason um so nothing should be for attribution it'll be aggregated

[0:46:28] Voice 10: it may be identified as government trust council um there'll be others we'll interview as well

[0:46:36] Voice 10: where we'd actually proposed in our proposal to interview about 40 people not just trust council

[0:46:43] Voice 10: but people staff and then other people who you think would be appropriate either in the community

[0:46:48] Voice 10: certainly in the provincial government and others who you might identify so none of it's for

[0:46:53] Voice 10: attribution no

[0:46:55] Trustee Middleton: thank you does is that sufficient uh trustee chris and

[0:47:01] Trustee Critchley: and will that be made plain

[0:47:04] Trustee Critchley: plain to uh to all people being contacted in advance presumably yes

[0:47:08] Voice 10: yes i think we'll we'll

[0:47:10] Voice 10: have it right on the the questionnaire that we'll develop and send out to people and maybe we should

[0:47:15] Voice 10: just say that up front as a general rule so that people are clear right from the get-go that

[0:47:20] Voice 10: everything they say is in

[0:47:21] Voice 10: confidence thank

[0:47:24] Trustee Middleton: you um any further comments in regard the role of uh of

[0:47:30] Trustee Middleton: of staff or yeah, role of staff at this point.

[0:47:37] Trustee Middleton: Okay.

[0:47:38] Trustee Middleton: Well, thank you.

[0:47:39] Trustee Middleton: Thank you for that, C.L.

[0:47:40] Trustee Middleton: That sounds very, very good to begin.

[0:47:45] Trustee Middleton: So I think the next point on the agenda

[0:47:47] Trustee Middleton: is really a chance for people to talk

[0:47:50] Trustee Middleton: in a kind of a more general way about what their hopes,

[0:47:55] Trustee Middleton: expectations, desires for what a review may mean

[0:48:02] Trustee Middleton: for the trust or may or may do um and there's no you know really there's no set menu for what

[0:48:09] Trustee Middleton: what uh comments are welcome here really anything that uh you would like to say from the trustee

[0:48:15] Trustee Middleton: perspective i think i if i could open it up um initially to um trustee kale um your comments

[0:48:24] Trustee Middleton: so welcome sir no

[0:48:27] Voice 11: thank you very much chair uh i think general comments are is that someone like

[0:48:35] Voice 11: myself now now needs to read the some more of the material which i know you'll be sending

[0:48:41] Voice 11: uh general comments and i'm delighted at the the broad range of experience of those people who will

[0:48:48] Voice 11: be conducting this review. And my other comment follows on the next subject on the agenda,

[0:48:59] Voice 11: which will be communications about this project. A lot of us talking within our communities have

[0:49:06] Voice 11: made it very, very clear that this review is taking place. It's now going to be up to us to

[0:49:13] Voice 11: tell people about it. So to be able to communicate properly, factually, and in an appropriate way

[0:49:22] Voice 11: to everybody, it's going to be very important. So material to help us achieve that would be

[0:49:31] Voice 11: much appreciated. So we don't start off with a lot of misinformation out there amongst the

[0:49:39] Voice 11: communities that we serve and represent. So my general comment would be, thank you and

[0:49:45] Voice 11: looking forward to receiving a lot more information that we can disseminate broadly.

[0:49:50] Voice 11: This review, I can tell the committee members and the panel members,

[0:49:57] Voice 11: it may vary from island to island, but it certainly has got the attention of many.

[0:50:02] Voice 11: any. So to be able to communicate actually and actually would be hugely beneficial. So I look

[0:50:11] Voice 11: forward to being able to do that without fear or favor, knowing that what I'm saying is totally

[0:50:18] Voice 11: correct and I'm not misleading anybody. Thank

[0:50:22] Trustee Middleton: you, Chair. Thank you, Trustee Cahill. May I turn now

[0:50:26] Trustee Middleton: please to Trustee Wright for your comments?

[0:50:31] Voice 9: Well, I think the note that has been made that

[0:50:35] Voice 9: that this resolution to start this review was a very close vote.

[0:50:41] Voice 9: I believe it was two, Mr. Critchley.

[0:50:43] Voice 9: I think it was 14 to 12, if I'm not mistaken.

[0:50:45] Voice 9: But I also think it's worth noting that the entire Executive Committee

[0:50:49] Voice 9: and our CAO spoke against it as well.

[0:50:52] Voice 9: So I think that what I find may be of most importance

[0:50:57] Voice 9: is not unlike what Trustee Cahill said,

[0:51:01] Voice 9: and that is that we have the information

[0:51:03] Voice 9: and what we're doing completely transparent

[0:51:05] Voice 9: so that we can ensure that everybody has the same information

[0:51:10] Voice 9: and that people get a clear picture of what we are doing

[0:51:15] Voice 9: and the fact that this is likely a more positive piece of work than negative.

[0:51:23] Voice 9: So as long as everybody's getting the same information at the same time

[0:51:28] Voice 9: and the same message, I'd be happy with that. Thank you.

[0:51:34] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Trustee Wright.

[0:51:37] Trustee Middleton: and may I turn now to Trustee Luckham.

[0:51:41] Trustee Middleton: I see you on the screen here.

[0:51:44] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[0:51:46] Trustee Luckham: Well, thank you.

[0:51:50] Trustee Luckham: I guess from, well, let me just start off with my thoughts,

[0:51:54] Trustee Luckham: and then I just have some thoughts that have evolved

[0:51:57] Trustee Luckham: from what I've heard so far.

[0:52:00] Trustee Luckham: I am really looking forward to this endeavor

[0:52:05] Trustee Luckham: in hoping that we're going to find opportunities to improve how it is that we govern and how it

[0:52:13] Trustee Luckham: is that we deliver on the preserve and protect mandate. The Alanis Trust has a very broad,

[0:52:20] Trustee Luckham: unique responsibility in the province of British Columbia and on the Salish Sea

[0:52:26] Trustee Luckham: as an agent of the province. And yet we have very limited tools. We have very little influence over

[0:52:33] Trustee Luckham: over legislation and other agencies whose work directly impact the work that we do.

[0:52:41] Trustee Luckham: And so if there's opportunities for us to improve how we're doing that work, I look forward to implementing that.

[0:52:49] Trustee Luckham: Indeed, I'm a more than a half full cup kind of guy.

[0:52:54] Trustee Luckham: And absolutely, this is a positive opportunity to engage this incredibly rich level of experience that, Charles, your members, your team that you've assembled here.

[0:53:09] Trustee Luckham: And I am very grateful for that because I can see immediately that the depth and breadth of their knowledge is definitely going to be able to allow them to assess our work, who we are, how we're doing, and see potentially opportunities for us there, which I will say may be of an administrative nature, but also may and I hope will be of a political nature.

[0:53:33] Trustee Luckham: because certainly there are elements of the political decision-making ability of

[0:53:39] Trustee Luckham: generations at this point of trustees that have determined the the way that we

[0:53:46] Trustee Luckham: work and so look forward to that just worse I sort of think maybe we're

[0:53:53] Trustee Luckham: getting a little ahead of ourselves when we're talking about communicating and

[0:53:57] Trustee Luckham: disseminating information and I'm not sure what the expectations of the

[0:54:00] Trustee Luckham: the contractor is here with respect to that because I don't know that we've actually identified a

[0:54:05] Trustee Luckham: specific public communications component to the delivery of this work. I think they're going to

[0:54:12] Trustee Luckham: go off and do their work and report back to council. And

[0:54:15] Trustee Luckham: so we certainly have, and correct me

[0:54:17] Trustee Luckham: if I'm wrong, CAO, we've adopted IA2P principles in communication and there's a spectrum there of

[0:54:25] Trustee Luckham: of information going out only, engaging and collaborating.

[0:54:30] Trustee Luckham: And obviously in this particular case,

[0:54:32] Trustee Luckham: we'd be at the, I would suspect we're at this level

[0:54:36] Trustee Luckham: where we're disseminating information outwardly.

[0:54:39] Trustee Luckham: And maybe that's more the work of the select committee

[0:54:42] Trustee Luckham: independent of the contractor,

[0:54:45] Trustee Luckham: because I would like to think that the contractor

[0:54:47] Trustee Luckham: is gonna focus on the important work

[0:54:49] Trustee Luckham: of figuring out what we're doing and how we're doing it

[0:54:51] Trustee Luckham: and how we might do it better

[0:54:52] Trustee Luckham: rather than the nitty gritty details

[0:54:55] Trustee Luckham: of communicating with the public.

[0:54:58] Trustee Luckham: So that's the question I think

[0:54:59] Trustee Luckham: that we might pick up in 4.41.

[0:55:03] Trustee Luckham: And then I just would like to say that myself

[0:55:06] Trustee Luckham: and I can't speak for the CAO,

[0:55:09] Trustee Luckham: but I'm going to say that the CAO

[0:55:11] Trustee Luckham: is in full support of advancing this project as I am.

[0:55:14] Trustee Luckham: And that we, it's a decision of council.

[0:55:17] Trustee Luckham: We take that very seriously.

[0:55:19] Trustee Luckham: and we want to be sure that council's needs are met.

[0:55:24] Trustee Luckham: So I just feel it's important to make that clear.

[0:55:30] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Trustee Larkin.

[0:55:33] Trustee Middleton: May I turn now, please, to Vice Chair Longrace, please, for your comments.

[0:55:38] Voice 13: Yeah, okay.

[0:55:39] Voice 13: Well, thank you.

[0:55:39] Voice 13: Yeah.

[0:55:40] Voice 13: Being a first-term trustee, I don't have a lot of the background information.

[0:55:45] Voice 13: And one of the analogies that I come up with,

[0:55:48] Voice 13: and it was mentioned at Trust Council,

[0:55:49] Voice 13: is we work in a greenhouse and it's maybe opportune that somebody outside the

[0:55:56] Voice 13: greenhouse looks in to see how we operate because sometimes systems work

[0:56:01] Voice 13: in such a way that they see things as as they think they are and it's sort of a

[0:56:07] Voice 13: corporate mindset that this is the way things operate this is effective but

[0:56:12] Voice 13: sometimes somebody from the outside looking in with some experience a

[0:56:15] Voice 13: different lens will provide advice I think that could change things for potentially improve things

[0:56:22] Voice 13: and that's sort of my focus is just looking at how we can improve what we're doing I mean as a

[0:56:28] Voice 13: local trustee sometimes I get frustrated with things you know how long it takes time how long

[0:56:33] Voice 13: it takes to do things and but I don't necessarily have the expertise or the knowledge to pinpoint

[0:56:42] Voice 13: point you know some of the uh the issues that are driving the time and it may well be that the time

[0:56:48] Voice 13: required to do things is is valid but i just don't know so for me it's an opportunity to

[0:56:54] Voice 13: have somebody else just look at what we do and how we're doing it and look for improvements

[0:56:59] Voice 13: that's ultimately my goal um communications yeah it should be uh yeah i i agree i don't know that

[0:57:06] Voice 13: Do we want the proponents to actually be operating the communication aspect

[0:57:11] Voice 13: or they should be doing, you know, the work?

[0:57:14] Voice 13: And it's our role, I think, to direct that to the degree that we want to.

[0:57:22] Voice 13: I think that's it.

[0:57:24] Voice 13: I'm looking forward to the review and I'm looking forward to, you know,

[0:57:29] Voice 13: participating in the monthly meetings and what issues that arise or not.

[0:57:35] Voice 13: I don't see us as directing the work so much as just assisting the work that's to be done.

[0:57:45] Voice 13: Thank you.

[0:57:46] Trustee Middleton: Great. Thank you very much.

[0:57:48] Trustee Middleton: And now if I could turn to you, Trustee Critchley, I think it's the – yeah.

[0:57:55] Trustee Critchley: All right. Thank you.

[0:57:57] Trustee Critchley: Yes, I would basically agree with what Trustee Langerice has said in terms of personal objective.

[0:58:03] Trustee Critchley: I would say by way of background that I think that among the 26 trustees, we don't have any trustees who are stalking horses for developers seeking to undermine and dismantle the trust.

[0:58:20] Trustee Critchley: I think everybody is at the table because they are interested in the environment and its preservation and protection, which is the core mandate of the trust in its legislation.

[0:58:32] Trustee Critchley: legislation, and we just seek to do the best job that we can in that regard. I'm not sure if we're

[0:58:40] Trustee Critchley: doing it now. If we are, all well and good. Then it becomes an exercise, similar to going to the

[0:58:47] Trustee Critchley: doctor and having a checkup, and being able to walk out with a big smile and say, everything's

[0:58:51] Trustee Critchley: hunky-dory, you're good to go. On the other hand, if there are suggestions for how things can be

[0:58:57] Trustee Critchley: improved, any practices, procedures, that would be welcome. If there are things,

[0:59:07] Trustee Critchley: gaps in our powers, which I believe there are many, in the way in which we are able to control

[0:59:16] Trustee Critchley: things within the islands, we have to give way many times to other government agencies.

[0:59:22] Trustee Critchley: And whether this is crown provincial or federal, whether it's transportation, shipping, whether it's shellfish industry matters, Department of Fisheries and Oceans, various other forestry, agricultural land reserve, land commission.

[0:59:48] Trustee Critchley: We seem to have to give way to many, many other governments and gets in the way of us, I believe, fulfilling our mandate.

[1:00:00] Trustee Critchley: So the more that those can be identified, it may build a case for us when we go to government, either seeking legislative change or at least increased cooperation from other levels of government.

[1:00:13] Trustee Critchley: That would be one hope of an outcome for me speaking personally.

[1:00:19] Trustee Critchley: But I'm looking forward to it. Thank you very much.

[1:00:24] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Trustee Critchley. And then, Trustee Brent, please, if we could hear your comments, that would be appreciated. Thank you.

[1:00:30] Voice 7: It's pretty simple. Most well-run organizations from time to time have external reviews. They welcome them. And it's been my experience with the trust that it has resisted all attempts as much as possible, even at the point of suggesting that a review would bring the organization to a standstill that was said at a public meeting.

[1:00:58] Voice 7: So I'm really looking forward to, very simply, an outside set of eyes to see if there are some suggestions as to better ways to go about the business of what the trust does.

[1:01:11] Voice 7: That's it for me.

[1:01:15] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Trustee Brandon.

[1:01:17] Trustee Middleton: I'll conclude by saying that the work of the trust is not easy.

[1:01:22] Trustee Middleton: From the CAO down to the staff in the local offices, it's a uniquely accessible form of government for a collection of citizens who are uniquely engaged.

[1:01:40] Trustee Middleton: You see that in the electoral turnout year upon year.

[1:01:43] Trustee Middleton: These ratings are either the highest or the top three in terms of turnout for federal and provincial elections.

[1:01:52] Trustee Middleton: And so you have an organization that's treated as a municipal government, which it is not exactly.

[1:02:00] Trustee Middleton: And the pressures are great.

[1:02:02] Trustee Middleton: And sometimes I think it's hard to look up and not be reactive to just trying to keep the ship stable.

[1:02:10] Trustee Middleton: And I'm just very grateful that the four of you came.

[1:02:14] Trustee Middleton: Obviously, I don't mean to be making any dispersions about the stages in your career or your age that you're at.

[1:02:22] Trustee Middleton: but that you've come from you know a very storied careers and you're willing to um to work with us

[1:02:28] Trustee Middleton: to give us your insights and input that sometimes is not available to those who are sort of like

[1:02:33] Trustee Middleton: shall we say at the coalface working away in this this very busy environment so

[1:02:38] Trustee Middleton: so

[1:02:39] Voice 10: i'm very excited in my own defense i have to say my lighting must be bad

[1:02:47] Trustee Middleton: of course it's it's my connection it's

[1:02:51] Trustee Middleton: and so um and so um so yeah so so thank you very much i mean i i do i've always maintained that

[1:02:58] Trustee Middleton: this is a positive it's not out to find villains or or or or or criticize the legitimate efforts

[1:03:04] Trustee Middleton: of anybody and and i and i see that you bring that attitude to this work and so um um so thank

[1:03:10] Trustee Middleton: you thank you for that um and to that is now the segue into what some of uh some of our trustees

[1:03:20] Trustee Middleton: have touched upon. I'll just give a bit of a summation that the last meeting we talked about

[1:03:25] Trustee Middleton: communicating about this project. So do we use the communications tools of the trust and do a

[1:03:32] Trustee Middleton: press release saying, we're now doing this review, here's who's doing it, and keep it at just the

[1:03:40] Trustee Middleton: facts? Or do we make no such communication, get on with the work and talk about it at the end?

[1:03:47] Trustee Middleton: and there was a divergence of viewpoints as you've just heard and so we need to now come back to that

[1:03:53] Trustee Middleton: and settle that point do we make but basically do we make an announcement through through uh the

[1:03:58] Trustee Middleton: trust uh and its communication staff about the review or i don't know what the alternative

[1:04:06] Trustee Middleton: we other than not doing so so any any further comment um from uh what you've already made

[1:04:13] Trustee Middleton: in your introductions as trustees would be welcome excuse

[1:04:18] Voice 16: me it's uh jim roach i just wanted to say

[1:04:22] Voice 16: something if i could because it bears on the discussion that the members of the select

[1:04:27] Voice 16: committee will now have uh in our proposal we spoke about um an interviews interviews with

[1:04:34] Voice 16: councillors and also a survey uh for residents and depending on the nature of that survey which

[1:04:42] Voice 16: which is a subject we wanted to discuss with you this afternoon,

[1:04:45] Voice 16: it would require communication to the residents about the review

[1:04:52] Voice 16: because they would be asked to participate in a survey.

[1:04:56] Voice 16: So I'm just putting that on the table because it seems to me

[1:05:00] Voice 16: it informs the discussion you're having now.

[1:05:03] Trustee Middleton: Thank you for that.

[1:05:04] Trustee Middleton: That's a very good point.

[1:05:07] Trustee Middleton: It does seem then that in order to facilitate the work of the consultants

[1:05:11] Trustee Middleton: and acknowledgement that the work is underway would be in order.

[1:05:16] Trustee Middleton: CEO Hudson-Peller.

[1:05:18] Voice 14: Well, Mr. Chair, you might want to consider going through the work plan 4.5

[1:05:24] Voice 14: and then coming to communications 4.4 afterwards

[1:05:28] Voice 14: because some of these nuggets might fall out from that process.

[1:05:33] Trustee Middleton: But

[1:05:34] Voice 14: just offer that as a

[1:05:35] Trustee Middleton: thought.

[1:05:38] Trustee Middleton: No, thank you very much.

[1:05:40] Trustee Middleton: I think that's fine.

[1:05:42] Trustee Middleton: mind any objections to us doing that no okay no so I guess we're knowing that we have still to

[1:05:51] Trustee Middleton: conclude the topic of Communications and what exactly we're doing or not doing uh perhaps uh

[1:05:56] Trustee Middleton: Charles I could open the floor to you and you could uh begin um to present the work plan thank

[1:06:04] Voice 17: you Lee um I think that we should approach this you have a copy of the work plan in front of you

[1:06:10] Voice 17: which is a lorry, I think if they have copies of it, I think to facilitate this discussion,

[1:06:19] Voice 17: I think it'd be better to take the document off the screen so we can see each other and talk to

[1:06:28] Voice 17: it. I think I find that we only get to see a few people. So if you please just take that off the

[1:06:33] Voice 17: off the screen. Yeah, because the work plan itself is just set some dates out here that

[1:06:40] Voice 17: we've put together that we'll agree upon. Maybe not all of these dates, there may be some

[1:06:46] Voice 17: adjustment based on, you know, what we learned and where we're going over the next, particularly

[1:06:51] Voice 17: over the next two months. You know, we're deeply engaged right now in the document review process

[1:06:57] Voice 17: and the desk research process.

[1:06:59] Voice 17: So I think we all have our kind of our heads down,

[1:07:02] Voice 17: tails up at this point and, you know,

[1:07:05] Voice 17: getting as broad an understanding of the organization.

[1:07:09] Voice 17: I think because some of you haven't heard the proposal,

[1:07:12] Voice 17: no, I think it's gonna be important

[1:07:14] Voice 17: for each one of our subject matter experts,

[1:07:17] Voice 17: you know, to provide an overview

[1:07:19] Voice 17: on some of the key focus that they're gonna bring,

[1:07:22] Voice 17: you know, which is described in some detail

[1:07:24] Voice 17: in the proposal itself.

[1:07:26] Voice 17: And I start off by saying is that like a lot of proposals written by committee, it's not uncommon to, you know, have the, you know, the people require requesting a bid process to throw in everything from the, you know, the moon, the sun and the stars.

[1:07:42] Voice 17: And given the limited resources here, and trust me, $75,000 are limited resources, given the scope and scale and the level of engagement across the organization as such, we had to make a number of very strategic decisions of where we would take our experience and expertise

[1:08:03] Voice 17: and focus them in a way to deliver a product that would be useful for this committee and for the council itself, you know, for making some recommendations for change.

[1:08:14] Voice 17: Because that's, you know, so we made those decisions.

[1:08:17] Voice 17: And the central part of those decisions is that we prioritized the governance function.

[1:08:23] Voice 17: And we prioritize the governance function and we see both the land use planning review and the advocacy activities as providing support for and better understanding of, you know, the kind of directions we may recommend associated with the governance function.

[1:08:42] Voice 17: And so I'll let, so I think what we'll do is go through a process here and we'll first have MF, you know, do kind of a high level overview of the perspective in the proposal we took to governance and the kind of how we're going to approach that.

[1:08:57] Voice 17: And then I think we'll bring Eric, you know, to focus on the work he's been doing and will be producing on the land use planning, you know, which we described in the proposal and made it very clear that we were going to provide a high level overview.

[1:09:13] Voice 17: review. This is not an audit of your land use planning function. And, you know, we need to be

[1:09:19] Voice 17: very clear with this committee and with the staff with respect to our contract, that we're all on

[1:09:25] Voice 17: the same page about what our priorities are and what can be accomplished with the resources we

[1:09:31] Voice 17: have. And then I think at that point, you know, Jim will go through, you know, the work on the

[1:09:41] Voice 17: the advocacy tools and our level of engagement we expect from this committee as we move forward

[1:09:47] Voice 17: gathering the research associated with this project. So with that, I'll start off with MF

[1:09:53] Voice 17: and ask you to provide the initial overview. MF.

[1:09:57] Voice 10: Thank you. I thought this was going to be much

[1:09:59] Voice 10: shorter, but if you don't mind, if you think I'm droning on for too long, let me know. Otherwise,

[1:10:05] Voice 10: I'm going to walk through some of the highlights of the RFP that you haven't had a chance to view

[1:10:09] Voice 10: you yet so that you have all of this in context. First and foremost, I want to say, given the

[1:10:15] Voice 10: nervousness of some people around the trust table, that it is a best practice to review your

[1:10:22] Voice 10: governance practices about every five years. That's why in a lot of legislative programs,

[1:10:28] Voice 10: especially modern ones, you typically have sunsetted programs. And the reason for that

[1:10:33] Voice 10: is to review whether things are still achieving the intended purpose that they had. And if you

[1:10:38] Voice 10: you think that that doesn't apply to important things even the financial governors of our entire

[1:10:45] Voice 10: system for example are bound by a five-year mandate review the bank act for example that

[1:10:51] Voice 10: governs the bank of canada and that drives much of our fiscal and financial directions especially

[1:10:57] Voice 10: in a pandemic time is reviewed every five years by legislative mandate so this is not extraordinary

[1:11:04] Voice 10: extraordinary or some kind of step on the wild side that you're taking. In conducting this thing,

[1:11:11] Voice 10: it's going to be very important that candor is the order of the day. We've been in this game

[1:11:17] Voice 10: for a long time, and we can easily separate personal views from structural views from

[1:11:21] Voice 10: administrative views and what it takes to actually make something work properly. And there are many

[1:11:26] Voice 10: ways of making something work. There isn't one size that fits all, and I'll get into some of

[1:11:31] Voice 10: that as well so the RFP asked us to look at a review of governance through that a review of

[1:11:38] Voice 10: management and management from I forget which one of the trustees mentioned it but it does

[1:11:43] Voice 10: start with the political level and works its way throughout the organization

[1:11:49] Voice 10: and operational structures and focusing specifically on effectiveness of how all of

[1:11:56] Voice 10: this is working in a governance system and to do this we're looking at four primary areas

[1:12:02] Voice 10: one is governance in determining the strategic directions of the organization how you organize

[1:12:08] Voice 10: the other one separate from the land use planning function that Jim and I will be working on a lot

[1:12:14] Voice 10: is the strategic planning function so from governance to setting overall directions and

[1:12:20] Voice 10: then the advocacy activity that's important and then on another track land use planning because

[1:12:25] Voice 10: that has been so much of what has consumed your time why are we doing this and why are you doing

[1:12:30] Voice 10: this and why are we doing on your behalf because you speak in the uh request for proposals of the

[1:12:37] Voice 10: preserve and protect mandate and how that is expressed in a 21st century century context

[1:12:45] Voice 10: uh the issues of sustainability uh called out just plainly the issues of climate change

[1:12:52] Voice 10: change the issues of reconciliation those are all important issues for you as the trust council

[1:12:58] Voice 10: and what is sustainability for the trust for your citizens and for the people of British Columbia

[1:13:04] Voice 10: those are all important questions that are not answered straight up in any of the documents that

[1:13:10] Voice 10: I've had a chance to look at so far and those are important questions to pursue and to keep in the

[1:13:16] Voice 10: back of our minds as we're going through this. So the governance review will look at policies

[1:13:22] Voice 10: and processes by which the organization is directed and managed. Not the framework. We

[1:13:30] Voice 10: were told in the RFP that the framework of the legislation is out of scope, but it does enable

[1:13:36] Voice 10: your authority and it puts limitations on your authority. So if you have views when we talk to

[1:13:40] Voice 10: you uh because as i said we're looking to conduct about 40 interviews which is uh time consuming

[1:13:47] Voice 10: but there's no other way of getting to the root causes of what either excites you bothers you or

[1:13:54] Voice 10: what your thoughtful views about how they should move forward in the future other than doing that

[1:13:59] Voice 10: so we'll keep all that in mind and as we go through you'll be directly and intimately involved

[1:14:05] Voice 10: in helping to shape it because we're always looking for balance right we're always looking

[1:14:09] Voice 10: looking for balance. We're looking for what does it take to be an effective organization,

[1:14:15] Voice 10: as effective as you'd like. And we're going to measure effectiveness against the abilities of

[1:14:19] Voice 10: these key elements that I've just described. And we've been asked through the RFP and we will work

[1:14:25] Voice 10: to benchmark performance, including efficacy and adequacy of all the baseline measurements you have

[1:14:31] Voice 10: so that you can look at what your performance is now. And if there are gaps that you want to

[1:14:37] Voice 10: address through this process that you'll identify in the interview process. So, as you've already

[1:14:43] Voice 10: commented, we've had extensive experience looking at these kinds of things. We want this to be

[1:14:48] Voice 10: responsible, and we want the review to be responsive to the kinds of things that you're

[1:14:53] Voice 10: identifying. Wouldn't you know it that I've got someone at the door, but I can't do anything about

[1:14:58] Voice 10: it. So, if you hear a bell ringing, that's what it's all about. So, our primary goal here is,

[1:15:06] Voice 10: as we conduct the interviews and as we start to draw our findings is to promote and share

[1:15:11] Voice 10: best practices from other places to offer highly actionable solutions and any modes for continuous

[1:15:19] Voice 10: improvement that you might put in place that helps you deliver on your mission. We've worked

[1:15:25] Voice 10: extensively in all areas of public governance and board and organizational governance and

[1:15:30] Voice 10: indigenous governance and anywhere where technology is applied to modernizing the way governments work

[1:15:35] Voice 10: both in Canada and internationally.

[1:15:38] Voice 10: So we do fundamentally believe,

[1:15:40] Voice 10: and that's why governance is such a large component of this,

[1:15:42] Voice 10: although we think your RFP makes it a large component,

[1:15:45] Voice 10: is that it is often the deciding component

[1:15:48] Voice 10: of organizational effectiveness.

[1:15:51] Voice 10: Because if you have effective governance,

[1:15:54] Voice 10: you ensure that objectives are realized,

[1:15:57] Voice 10: that resources are well managed,

[1:15:59] Voice 10: and that the interests of stakeholders

[1:16:01] Voice 10: are reflected in your key decisions

[1:16:02] Voice 10: and easily explained and supported by them.

[1:16:06] Voice 10: So we also believe, though, that governance arrangements need to be customized so it's not a one size fits all to take into account your particular mission, the kind of people who work there and are on the trust council itself, the culture and traditions and the relationship and any other sort of important considerations that you're going to highlight for us as we go through this review because you are unique in your situation.

[1:16:31] Voice 10: situation so we will we will frame our approach and this is what we talked about extensively in

[1:16:37] Voice 10: the rfp around a set of core principles for all sorts of public purpose organizations that are

[1:16:44] Voice 10: derived from international standards and which i began to adapt about 14 years ago when i first

[1:16:51] Voice 10: went to the institute on governance and these are uh we try to link principle to highly actionable

[1:16:57] Voice 10: practice right so there are five uh basic principles and you'll see them all when you

[1:17:03] Voice 10: receive our our bid but basically this is what we talk we talk to we talk to the first foremost

[1:17:12] Voice 10: of these principles as the whole concept which will be not lost on any of you the notion of

[1:17:17] Voice 10: legitimacy and voice incorporating elements of participation of all the legitimate interests

[1:17:23] Voice 10: and decision-making, along with how do you get to a consensus orientation, right? There are many

[1:17:29] Voice 10: ways of skinning that cat. How do you get to a consensus orientation? How do you mediate? How do

[1:17:35] Voice 10: you structure to achieve broad agreement supported by the policies and procedures that will guide

[1:17:40] Voice 10: your staff and the functioning of the trust council itself? The second, so that's legitimacy

[1:17:46] Voice 10: and voice. The second one is the whole notion of direction. How do you, through governance,

[1:17:51] Voice 10: set the strategic vision including broader and longer-term visions being aware of the environment

[1:17:58] Voice 10: around you and the environment in which your organization has to operate i spoke earlier about

[1:18:03] Voice 10: some of the things that have are called out now in terms of where you're going in terms of future

[1:18:09] Voice 10: direction and the 21st century interpretation of what preserve and protect means in terms of your

[1:18:14] Voice 1: mandate

[1:18:15] Voice 10: the third one so that's direction legitimacy and voice legitimacy and voice

[1:18:20] Voice 10: direction, and the third one is performance. So how do you recognize the value of responsiveness

[1:18:26] Voice 10: as stakeholders with a results-oriented approach that makes for effective and efficient use of

[1:18:31] Voice 10: resources? Because you've got a huge mandate and you've got X number of resources. So how do you

[1:18:38] Voice 10: do that in terms of performance? What will you choose to benchmark given the advice we may give

[1:18:43] Voice 10: you in terms of standards from other places, internationally and domestically? And what

[1:18:49] Voice 10: what decisions do you want to make around those questions? That's performance. And fourthly,

[1:18:54] Voice 10: this whole issue of accountability. How do you best recognize in your governance practices that

[1:19:00] Voice 10: decision makers, as you are, are answerable to your shareholders and to the public? Your

[1:19:05] Voice 10: shareholder being the government of British Columbia that created you, and the public being

[1:19:09] Voice 10: the people that think they're being served by you on a daily basis. And how do you always think

[1:19:14] Voice 10: about, in a modern context, enhancing transparency in everything you're doing? Now, it seems to me

[1:19:19] Voice 10: you have a lot of transparency but this is another important feature of what we will assess

[1:19:24] Voice 10: and that's the whole issue of accountability and finally a highly subjective one but we try to

[1:19:33] Voice 10: equip you with a way of judging this one as well because it's always in the eye of the beholder

[1:19:37] Voice 10: and certainly the citizens you serve the important principle of fairness how do you recognize that

[1:19:44] Voice 10: there are equitable opportunities are available to individuals in a governance system how does

[1:19:48] Voice 10: everybody have their say? And how are you organized to convince everybody that what

[1:19:55] Voice 10: you're supporting is an impartial framework that allows for all to be heard? So those are the five

[1:20:01] Voice 10: principles that we are using to look at this whole area of governance, legitimacy and voice,

[1:20:06] Voice 10: direction, performance, accountability, and fairness. And those are kind of the

[1:20:11] Voice 10: the big principles on which we will anchor everything that we do um they didn't come from

[1:20:18] Voice 10: uh the sky the moon or some dream i had they are customized to take into account uh all the work

[1:20:25] Voice 10: that's being done by the um united nations development program over the last many many

[1:20:31] Voice 10: years and as i said i adapted them about 15 years ago and what we will do is we'll we'll develop a

[1:20:37] Voice 10: definition of how these principles apply to the island trust so that they are customized to take

[1:20:42] Voice 10: into account your particular mission the people who support you your cultures your traditions

[1:20:47] Voice 10: so that's where we go from there um we also uh have put into the um proposal for responding to

[1:20:57] Voice 10: the rfb that uh the whole issue of indigenous uh rights and reconciliation is a big one these days

[1:21:05] Voice 10: and there's a lot on the website that speaks to that but how do you have a more direct role for

[1:21:11] Voice 10: reconciliation? How do you adopt what is now law provincially through UNDRIP, the UN Declaration

[1:21:19] Voice 10: of Rights of Indigenous Peoples and is about to be passed into legislation federally? How do those

[1:21:24] Voice 10: things work and how are those things perceived within the context of what you do? From a

[1:21:31] Voice 10: governance perspective, I also have to assure you that we are very mindful of the multi-stakeholder

[1:21:36] Voice 10: federated governance approach of the Islands Trust, what it represents, what it has represented

[1:21:41] Voice 10: historically, just from reading and just from knowing people who live there and

[1:21:48] Voice 10: what we are able to discern. And we recognize how difficult it is for public organizations

[1:21:55] Voice 10: that engage in consensus-oriented decision-making to find a balance in a process that's both formal

[1:22:00] Voice 10: and deliberative with efficiency and effectiveness so at the end of the day we're striving for balance

[1:22:08] Voice 10: in a sensitive fashion and we'll be guided by you as to whether you will

[1:22:18] Voice 10: want the report that you want or get the report that you need because at the end of the day you're

[1:22:24] Voice 10: you're the client we'll have lots of observations for you in terms of our analysis and findings but

[1:22:30] Voice 10: we will not put pen to paper on anything that's a recommendation until we have good discussions

[1:22:35] Voice 10: about where that balance is to be found. Because at the end of the day, what is the story you want

[1:22:41] Voice 10: to tell? We're not looking backwards to when you were all potentially children growing up

[1:22:49] Voice 10: on the islands. I think we're looking forward to what your great-grandchildren will think

[1:22:54] Voice 10: about the institution that's been left for them and the status of those islands as a patrimony

[1:23:00] Voice 10: for all uh all of British Columbians and all of Canada as well so what is the story you want to

[1:23:06] Voice 10: tell and how do we maximize the people and the assets that you have before you from a governance

[1:23:13] Voice 10: perspective to be able to prepare you to build on your uh significant achievements and strengths

[1:23:20] Voice 10: and to prepare you for the next 50 60 years until you probably will do a similar study because life

[1:23:30] Voice 10: will have changed again and there'll be other things to take into account so um we propose

[1:23:35] Voice 10: at our next meeting uh to work with staff in the intervening time uh to identify uh times when we

[1:23:43] Voice 10: can speak to all 26 members of uh council to help you uh help us identify the other appropriate

[1:23:53] Voice 10: people we should be talking to as i said uh your your mother department if i can call it that the

[1:24:01] Voice 10: mothership department other people at the provincial level there might be other people

[1:24:06] Voice 10: at the federal level you would want us to speak to certainly first nations leaders uh who would

[1:24:12] Voice 10: have an immediate interest in the trust uh area and other people who you think are important

[1:24:18] Voice 10: stakeholders and who have enough of an understanding of the past and the future

[1:24:22] Voice 10: that they should be significant people that we should be speaking to on your behalf.

[1:24:29] Voice 10: Based on the principles I've outlined, five principles, and based on the kinds of questions

[1:24:34] Voice 10: that we would typically ask the people that we're interviewing that will help us derive

[1:24:41] Voice 10: the kind of insights that we need to continue to do this work, we will prepare a draft questionnaire

[1:24:48] Voice 10: for your next meeting so that we can walk you through it and get your insights on

[1:24:55] Voice 10: on if we've if we've got the right balance and tone and are asking all the right questions

[1:25:00] Voice 10: because the purpose of the questionnaire and the purpose of talking to everybody

[1:25:03] Voice 10: is to ask them the same questions so that we have a comparator of apples to apples

[1:25:08] Voice 10: as i said earlier it'll all be done in confidence and it will help us also form observations on

[1:25:15] Voice 10: your strategic planning processes. And I'll be working closely with Jim on

[1:25:20] Voice 10: that. And then we'll

[1:25:21] Voice 10: also help to inform him on the work he's doing in terms of advocacy, because, because it's all

[1:25:28] Voice 10: linked, and it's all connected. So I think, Charles, that I've covered off just about everything

[1:25:35] Voice 10: from a governance perspective that I can think of in sort of touching the treetops. I'm happy

[1:25:43] Voice 10: to take any questions and certainly you know we'll be around for a while helping form and

[1:25:48] Voice 10: shape this thing and finding the right balance charles

[1:25:51] Voice 16: maybe it would be wouldn't be a bad idea

[1:25:53] Voice 16: i don't want to interrupt the flow except that what i am focused on follows immediately from mfs

[1:26:01] Voice 16: and in fact uh is part of it so if i can just have about five minutes before and then

[1:26:06] Voice 16: to see the whole of this thing because as mf says this uh concept of governance strategic

[1:26:13] Voice 16: strategic planning and advocacy is one continuum which exists apart from the land use function

[1:26:20] Voice 16: itself. Advocacy essentially is both a result and a reflection of these foundational documents

[1:26:27] Voice 16: and of strategic decisions. It doesn't exist by itself. It only acts on the basis of superior

[1:26:36] Voice 16: decisions and actions that have been taken. Internally, and when I say internally, I mean

[1:26:41] Voice 16: I mean, within the trust islands themselves, internally, we're preoccupied with understanding whether or not through advocacy and other measures and the presence of the trust itself, there is an awareness and understanding and support for what you're doing.

[1:26:59] Voice 16: This is the first thing that you have to understand if you're going to look at what's next.

[1:27:05] Voice 16: Now, as well as that, there's a question of how you advocate on behalf of the trust itself, which is different from advocating in respect of issues that the trust has identified as being important.

[1:27:17] Voice 16: Because you are your own principal lobbyist. No one else can either understand your interests better than you, and no one else can better express them.

[1:27:28] Voice 16: So how are you functioning as an advocate for yourself to all of those decision makers, policy makers, and influencers that exist outside of the trust?

[1:27:38] Voice 16: And also then, how also are you advocating on behalf of those particular issues, many of which you've identified, including anchorages and marine environment and BC Ferries advocacy and other issues?

[1:27:50] Voice 16: issues so all of this is flowing from the documents that mf mentioned and it comes where she speaks of

[1:27:57] Voice 16: a um an interview guide so to discuss with counselors and then with others uh matters

[1:28:04] Voice 16: related to the review i speak about uh a survey and the survey which would be electronic uh and

[1:28:13] Voice 16: and again, confidential, hopefully is something that we might be able to apply to the population

[1:28:20] Voice 16: of the island, to the residents of the island, in a manner that would be similar to the online

[1:28:25] Voice 16: public survey that you would have done for the 21-22 budget. Now, that's something we would need

[1:28:31] Voice 16: to talk about in terms of whether it's practical to do that. It's certainly a reason why you would

[1:28:35] Voice 16: want to introduce the review in advance. And this would be a very simple questionnaire that would

[1:28:42] Voice 16: would begin to measure awareness, understanding,

[1:28:46] Voice 16: and support of the entire population.

[1:28:50] Voice 16: And we would also, of course,

[1:28:52] Voice 16: identify other key stakeholders

[1:28:53] Voice 16: that you are either partners in advocating with

[1:28:57] Voice 16: or objects of your advocacy and discuss with them.

[1:29:01] Voice 16: And tie this back into what MF has been talking about.

[1:29:05] Voice 16: So that's all I would like to say about that,

[1:29:07] Voice 16: but I just thought it's better to put that in here

[1:29:08] Voice 16: as part of this before we move on.

[1:29:11] Voice 16: No,

[1:29:12] Voice 17: no, no. Thank you, Jim. And I think it's also, you know, while we're sort of putting these pieces together, you really can't separate them out is to have Eric Vance provide a overview of his overview of on the land use planning, because, again, you know, it's a it's a critical element in the assessment of the of the governance structure and the measures that we're looking at.

[1:29:39] Voice 17: So we see all these three pieces all fitting together into a whole rather than as separate activities.

[1:29:47] Voice 17: They become integrated into the recommendations and into the questions and into the analysis.

[1:29:53] Voice 17: So, Eric, could you provide a brief overview of what a high level overview really means?

[1:30:00] Voice 8: Okay, thank you for that, Charles. Yeah, I want to emphasize, like the rest of the team, I come into this project with absolutely no preconceived notions about how planning is done in the Islands Trust.

[1:30:15] Voice 8: It's interesting. I mean, I've done a lot of work with regional districts and local governments around the province, and you folks, as you well know, are a little different.

[1:30:26] Voice 8: And you're not a regional district. You're not a municipality, with the exception of Bowen. And certainly there's a lot of what you do on the land use planning side, which, you know, is generally in line with what regional districts or local governments, municipalities do.

[1:30:43] Voice 8: There's other areas where it looks like you're doing things a bit different, which is not a bad thing.

[1:30:49] Voice 8: So where we are right now, we said over to Russ, I guess, a few days ago, fairly lengthy list of things that we're looking for on the planning side.

[1:30:59] Voice 8: So we just better understand what you folks have been up to, how you do things, resources and so on.

[1:31:07] Voice 8: I mean it you know as you're well aware I mean local planning services I think well over 70%

[1:31:13] Voice 8: of your total budget it's a lot of your staffing so it's a big part of how you do things so

[1:31:19] Voice 8: we do want to get in there where I've been poking around on the sites you know there's

[1:31:24] Voice 8: 15 or more OCPs each of those has a what you folks call a land use bylaw others would call

[1:31:32] Voice 8: a zoning bylaw attached with it and then there's many other bylaws there's literally hundreds so

[1:31:37] Voice 8: as Charles was saying we you know we got to figure out where we get the biggest bang for the buck

[1:31:42] Voice 8: here are there things that could be done differently in planning that would produce better

[1:31:48] Voice 8: results I don't know we're just working through these things but we can't get down into the

[1:31:55] Voice 8: intricate details of every bylaw and start critiquing zoning and that sort of stuff it's

[1:32:02] Voice 8: It's a higher level than that, but until we've done the interviews and the surveys, I have no sense of where there are, if there are, sticking points.

[1:32:13] Voice 8: I mean, everybody always complains about planning.

[1:32:15] Voice 8: It's too bureaucratic.

[1:32:17] Voice 8: Everything takes too long, and everybody's got examples of that, but it's a little bit different when you're in the trenches.

[1:32:22] Voice 8: So certainly what we'll be looking at is, is there some legitimacy to some of the concerns that are expressed?

[1:32:29] Voice 8: and if so how can we suggest some improvements we're looking for the common themes in this

[1:32:34] Voice 8: certainly as part of this we'll be doing some best practice work we'll be looking at how some

[1:32:40] Voice 8: other local governments do things that there may be some lessons for the islands trust but it's

[1:32:46] Voice 8: always too easy to look somewhere else and go well municipality a or regional district y is doing

[1:32:52] Voice 8: this or that and so you guys should be doing it but it may or may not be the case but we want to

[1:32:58] Voice 8: to suggest things for the Islands Trust that make sense for the Islands Trust.

[1:33:04] Voice 8: Recommendations to improve things will genuinely benefit you.

[1:33:08] Voice 8: It's not just, well, someone else is doing it, so you should be doing it.

[1:33:12] Voice 8: So just, again, getting into all this, trying to better understand how it's all structured.

[1:33:18] Voice 8: It's a learning process, and certainly I think we'll start to identify some of the common themes

[1:33:25] Voice 8: teams that emerge through some of the research and interviews that are coming up over the next

[1:33:30] Voice 8: several months. That's it for me.

[1:33:38] Voice 17: Thank you. Thank you, Eric. So I hope the select committee

[1:33:42] Voice 17: members, you know, have a better idea now of who this team is and where our expertise is focused.

[1:33:49] Voice 17: And because it's very much a team approach and it'll be a collaborative approach with this

[1:33:54] Voice 17: committee with some eventual reporting into the into the trust council i think the outline that

[1:34:02] Voice 17: we've provided on the activities has some dates attached to it and we're working to that but i

[1:34:07] Voice 17: think since we're right now immersed in the desk research phase you know when we get to the next

[1:34:13] Voice 17: meeting you know i think we'll be at the point where we can uh you know hone in on on these

[1:34:18] Voice 17: deadlines in these times. It's a very ambitious timeline, you know, to start this project in May

[1:34:25] Voice 17: and to end it in November, you know, with the activities we have to do. And we want to know

[1:34:30] Voice 17: if that, I don't know what the thinking was behind that, but, you know, we're committed to

[1:34:38] Voice 17: make that timetable. But if this process, if that, I mean, that is actually the minimum,

[1:34:46] Voice 17: but if more time is needed

[1:34:50] Voice 17: or if you want a different timetable,

[1:34:54] Voice 17: then we can talk about that.

[1:34:55] Voice 17: But I think we need to have this desk research phase

[1:34:59] Voice 17: pretty well in hand and have a opportunity

[1:35:03] Voice 17: to review the questionnaires and the work we're doing

[1:35:06] Voice 17: and the insights,

[1:35:08] Voice 17: because we've really only been at this for 10 days now,

[1:35:12] Voice 17: other than the work we do to provide the proposal.

[1:35:14] Voice 17: but with that I'd open this up to the chair and any questions that you may have to any of the

[1:35:22] Voice 17: consulting team thank you

[1:35:24] Trustee Middleton: thank thank you very much very much appreciated that that was that was

[1:35:29] Trustee Middleton: great there is the point about timing that maybe I'll make and then if anyone else has you know

[1:35:36] Trustee Middleton: general comments you can also speak to this Charles pointed out why was the timing

[1:35:41] Trustee Middleton: timing structures as it was. And we've been thinking about this in the conversation I had

[1:35:50] Trustee Middleton: with Charles to arrange this meeting. The December Trust Council meeting as the point for delivery of

[1:36:00] Trustee Middleton: the final report was chosen such that in the remaining months of the term, there might be

[1:36:06] Trustee Middleton: some chance for trustees to act on uh some of the recommendations that may come out of this report

[1:36:12] Trustee Middleton: now in retrospect that is somewhat of a naive view it's naive both about perhaps

[1:36:19] Trustee Middleton: deep recommendations and recommendations with subtleties and how quickly they are

[1:36:24] Trustee Middleton: enacted or the process by which they're enacted and it's also naive to think that uh given our

[1:36:31] Trustee Middleton: budget process which has gone out for public review in this around after December is actually

[1:36:38] Trustee Middleton: finalized and voted upon in March so what it does mean is and if you care to speak to this

[1:36:46] Trustee Middleton: we actually do not need to receive there's no there's no there's no limiting mechanism that

[1:36:53] Trustee Middleton: requires us to receive the final report in well what I thought was December but the way calendar

[1:36:59] Trustee Middleton: works is actually november um we could actually receive it in march the contract is open to the

[1:37:04] Trustee Middleton: end of actually beyond the end of the fiscal year i think till april 30th um charles had in principle

[1:37:11] Trustee Middleton: talked about how that would not necessarily be our taking advantage of the good graces of the

[1:37:17] Trustee Middleton: consulting team by getting more work out of them over a longer period of time that in in practice

[1:37:23] Trustee Middleton: it might allow the same work to uh to continue so i just want to throw that out there so if there's

[1:37:28] Trustee Middleton: any general comments about the team and their excellent presentation to also reflect on that

[1:37:34] Trustee Middleton: question of timing? Thank you. I'll open it up now if anyone does have comments or questions.

[1:37:42] Voice 9: Well, Mr. Chair, I can tell you I'm pretty enthusiastic after what I just heard. I'm

[1:37:49] Voice 9: very excited. I think this is going to be a great opportunity. I love everything that

[1:37:54] Voice 9: what they said. And I appreciate their experience because they brought things forward that

[1:38:02] Voice 9: frankly just never occurred to me. And I'm really glad that they're being looked at.

[1:38:06] Voice 9: As far as the time is concerned, this has been a long time coming to get a review of the trust

[1:38:12] Voice 9: such as this. And my sense is I want this thing to work and I don't want the committee to be

[1:38:18] Voice 9: restricted in any way simply by an arbitrary time frame. So whatever it takes to do the work

[1:38:25] Voice 9: properly I'll support. I'm just glad it's taking place and I'm glad we have who we have in order

[1:38:32] Voice 9: to do it. Thank you.

[1:38:37] Trustee Middleton: Thank you Trustee Wright. Trustee Critchley please.

[1:38:42] Trustee Critchley: Thank you. Yeah thank

[1:38:43] Trustee Critchley: you for your presentations. I am similarly intrigued and hopeful. Looking at the documents

[1:38:51] Trustee Critchley: for review there was one I'm not sure if it's in there if I missed it or if it's described some

[1:38:57] Trustee Critchley: other way but we did have something called a state of the islands report that surveyed residents

[1:39:07] Trustee Critchley: unfortunately had a fairly small response rate particularly on some of the islands but it might

[1:39:12] Trustee Critchley: be useful information and I'm not not clear to me if that has ever been presented to you or

[1:39:18] Trustee Critchley: mentioned to you if not it's probably something that you might want to have a look at

[1:39:22] Voice 15: absolutely

[1:39:33] Trustee Middleton: trustee luckham please sir um

[1:39:36] Trustee Luckham: thank you chair middleton um you know i said that in my remarks

[1:39:41] Trustee Luckham: earlier that i was uh hopeful uh about looking for opportunities to improve the island's trust

[1:39:46] Trustee Luckham: um as uh trustee right has indicated after hearing uh what you've said um um i am excited

[1:39:54] Trustee Luckham: excited about what you've said, because I see real opportunity here to drill down into some

[1:40:01] Trustee Luckham: areas of the Allen's Trust that we have not necessarily reflected on, or definitely have

[1:40:06] Trustee Luckham: not reflected on, in the way that you are able to. And although I think it might have been,

[1:40:12] Trustee Luckham: Eric had suggested that although we've only had 10 days to review the Allen's Trust so far,

[1:40:18] Trustee Luckham: I think that you bring a wealth of experience with you that maximizes those 10 days tenfold.

[1:40:26] Trustee Luckham: And so I'm looking forward to this.

[1:40:31] Trustee Luckham: Again, there are some questions I have about communications, as was indicated by Jim, I think, and that indeed, you know, we've spent a lot of time over the years trying to move the dial on public engagement.

[1:40:47] Trustee Luckham: and statistically reliable surveys

[1:40:51] Trustee Luckham: is something that has bothered me for a very long time.

[1:40:55] Trustee Luckham: We've actually, in the last couple of years,

[1:40:56] Trustee Luckham: significantly moved that dial

[1:40:58] Trustee Luckham: where we're getting fairly,

[1:41:00] Trustee Luckham: by comparison to the past, decent numbers,

[1:41:03] Trustee Luckham: certainly not anywhere near an order of magnitude

[1:41:05] Trustee Luckham: that represents a statistically reliable data set

[1:41:10] Trustee Luckham: in terms of participation.

[1:41:11] Trustee Luckham: How we actually approach that

[1:41:14] Trustee Luckham: and that communications piece

[1:41:16] Trustee Luckham: in reflection of what I said earlier about that we want you to get on with the consulting

[1:41:20] Trustee Luckham: and do the work, and we can handle the communications. Obviously, it's clear that

[1:41:26] Trustee Luckham: with your experience, you can probably help us in marketing, for want of a better word,

[1:41:31] Trustee Luckham: that survey to get the highest opportunity to engage with the community, because that really

[1:41:39] Trustee Luckham: really, historically, is the big challenge, and it's not enough for me to say, well, the 80 percent

[1:41:46] Trustee Luckham: of people we didn't hear from, they must be happy with what we're doing, and so those are the

[1:41:51] Trustee Luckham: challenges, so look forward to this. Thank you.

[1:41:56] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, and any other comments? Trustee Brent,

[1:42:02] Trustee Middleton: please.

[1:42:03] Voice 7: Yeah, in so far as the timeline, this has been a long time coming, so yeah, we need to give

[1:42:10] Voice 7: whatever time is required to get the job done correctly so that's just as simple as it gets

[1:42:18] Voice 7: cheers thank

[1:42:22] Trustee Middleton: you um and maybe what we can do is actually just to not leave a loose end we'll come

[1:42:28] Trustee Middleton: back to communications in a second but uh we can actually talk about the time frame and come to a

[1:42:33] Trustee Middleton: decision uh i've heard sort of general support so far about the time frame being extended to have

[1:42:40] Trustee Middleton: have the final report final draft report I guess we should say um delivered to Trust Council in

[1:42:45] Trustee Middleton: March um any objections to our doing that and I think the mechanism by which we do it I don't

[1:42:53] Trustee Middleton: think we need a resolution of Trust Council but we we need basically um direction I think to staff

[1:43:00] Trustee Middleton: to simply adjust I think to adjust the the timing of deliverables in the contract uh trustee like

[1:43:10] Trustee Middleton: Yeah,

[1:43:12] Trustee Luckham: I didn't actually speak to the timeline I shouldn't need, you know, principally don't have any objections. However, as indicated earlier, it's really critical to counsel be aware of what their expectations are, because certainly there are expectations upon delivery.

[1:43:30] Trustee Luckham: and indeed with remaining you know less than a nine months to ten months of a

[1:43:37] Trustee Luckham: term it may be important for trustees to think that they've got ten months to

[1:43:42] Trustee Luckham: think about this rather than having six months to to think about how it is in

[1:43:48] Trustee Luckham: what direction this council having created this investigation will have the

[1:43:56] Trustee Luckham: opportunity to influence a future council because that's sort of typically

[1:43:59] Trustee Luckham: what happens something happens it's big then that influence is passed on to an ex-council and that

[1:44:05] Trustee Luckham: next council may or may not pick it up so um i would want i would want to uh perhaps suggest

[1:44:13] Trustee Luckham: and it's up to the the consulting team here maybe this is something you would include in the survey

[1:44:21] Trustee Luckham: about the immediacy of the outcome of this um for for council oh you actually are consulting

[1:44:27] Trustee Luckham: consulting with the public there. So part of the trustee survey process may want to or this

[1:44:33] Trustee Luckham: committee may want to ask that question of council in June when we meet. And if council is happy to

[1:44:40] Trustee Luckham: extend the timeline, then absolutely no question. Because what Mary Ann Trenette has suggested

[1:44:53] Trustee Luckham: in terms of the scope of this, the work indeed the time that's available to you to do all of

[1:44:59] Trustee Luckham: that amazing work is limited. And I respect also that Charles has said that they've already decided

[1:45:06] Trustee Luckham: what they are going to be able to do and not be able to do in a review of this nature with the

[1:45:11] Trustee Luckham: resources that's available to you.

[1:45:13] Voice 10: Well, another reason you may wish to extend the timeline might

[1:45:16] Voice 10: have to do with the fact that you might want to consult on some of the recommendations

[1:45:19] Voice 10: recommendations you as a council might wish to absolutely

[1:45:23] Trustee Luckham: thank you yeah well

[1:45:26] Trustee Luckham: uh if you don't

[1:45:29] Trustee Luckham: mind though um i'm not sure about consulting and negotiating the outcome of the of the report

[1:45:37] Trustee Luckham: because i think really we want to hear what you strongly believe um we need to hear and we may

[1:45:43] Trustee Luckham: not like what we what we hear but that's okay yeah yeah

[1:45:48] Trustee Middleton: i i think thank you yes i i think um

[1:45:55] Trustee Middleton: uh we certainly don't need to make uh there's no overriding reason to make the decision today

[1:46:02] Trustee Middleton: however i think what we've already learned we know that um we'll just uh what um um

[1:46:09] Trustee Middleton: Mayor Antoinette has already told us about best practice and some of the ways we might be recommended we adjust governance of the trust are not things that we would typically just dive into with a quick budget amendment at the March Council meeting.

[1:46:24] Trustee Middleton: And in fact, might be things that we go out to consult on. And effectively, it would be, quote unquote, a gift to the next council. And they may not see it as a gift, but we hope that the work is seen in that way.

[1:46:39] Trustee Middleton: And, you know, just being 100% realistic, it may, in fact, determine whether or not some trustees of this current council feel that there is work that they have their personal stamp on that might encourage them to run again in the next elections in September, sorry, October 2022.

[1:47:00] Trustee Middleton: 2022. So to me, I'm just giving my editorial spin here, if you'll excuse me. To me, it does

[1:47:09] Trustee Middleton: make sense to extend the receipt until March. It, I think, would allow for more meaningful

[1:47:15] Trustee Middleton: engagement perhaps by council rather than receipt of the single sort of interim

[1:47:22] Trustee Middleton: piece of work that we had set in September. And I'm not sure what the downsides would be

[1:47:29] Trustee Middleton: of so extending it certainly doesn't have a budgetary impact um i'm happy to not push this

[1:47:37] Trustee Middleton: any further at this point and revisit at our our next meeting after perhaps some thought but just

[1:47:43] Trustee Middleton: um any other any other final thoughts and if we were to move on uh vice chair langeris please sir

[1:47:52] Trustee Middleton: yeah

[1:47:52] Voice 13: just the issue of making uh moving the timeline now uh trustee lucka mentioned about

[1:47:59] Voice 13: taking it to trust counsel for approval which implies my understanding of that

[1:48:05] Voice 13: is that are we fixed to our resolution got passed to these dates or these dates

[1:48:12] Voice 13: flexible I guess that's one of the questions that comes up for me and thank

[1:48:17] Trustee Middleton: you see I

[1:48:18] Voice 13: support the flexibility I just want to make sure that and this is

[1:48:25] Trustee Middleton: It's appreciated if you'd make comment now, CAO.

[1:48:29] Voice 14: Sure, if I can help, Mr. Chair.

[1:48:31] Voice 14: I think that Trust Council asked you, the select committee,

[1:48:34] Voice 14: to essentially manage the project all the way through.

[1:48:37] Voice 14: So I think timing is essentially your area to manage

[1:48:41] Voice 14: and simply inform them at the next meeting that this is the best outcome

[1:48:45] Voice 14: if you think it is.

[1:48:45] Voice 14: So I think that's one.

[1:48:49] Voice 14: In terms of timing, I don't think that's a substantial procedural issue

[1:48:53] Voice 14: or anything like that.

[1:48:54] Voice 14: I do have a couple other before we move on from the topic, and maybe you want to deal with that, and I can come back in a couple minutes just to talk about the work program, but initially, that's my thought on timing.

[1:49:08] Trustee Middleton: Shall I continue?

[1:49:10] Trustee Middleton: Yes, I applaud that. I was just waiting for these multiple phones to stop ringing here, but please do carry on.

[1:49:17] Trustee Middleton: It's the public wanting to get in on this already.

[1:49:20] Trustee Middleton: There we go. Sorry about that. Yeah, please do, Russ.

[1:49:22] Trustee Middleton: A

[1:49:23] Voice 14: couple thoughts.

[1:49:24] Voice 14: One is there's a big grant program that's going on,

[1:49:29] Voice 14: the Local Government Development Approvals Program grant program

[1:49:32] Voice 14: that's going on in the province.

[1:49:35] Voice 14: Executive committee endorsed and very, very tight timelines.

[1:49:40] Voice 14: Quite often these programs have big money and tight timelines.

[1:49:43] Voice 14: It's a means of managing the flow of capital, I guess.

[1:49:47] Voice 14: The Islands Trust has applied for some funds associated with development, application, service delivery, and technology improvement.

[1:49:56] Voice 14: So a lot of the conversation today has been around planning, governance, operations at a high level.

[1:50:03] Voice 14: So this might give you confidence that we're going forward to look at some analysis associated with, I wouldn't say lower level, but more the day-to-day, on-the-ground applications interface with community.

[1:50:15] Voice 14: community. So that might be assistive to this overall effort. So I just want to let everyone

[1:50:22] Voice 14: in the group know that. And of course, I've read the proposal by the group. And there's two

[1:50:33] Voice 14: surveys described in it. One is a survey of, you know, I wouldn't say intimates of the Allens

[1:50:39] Voice 14: trust but people who know it well and the other is some reference I don't think deep reference

[1:50:46] Voice 14: but reference to an external perception survey so it's to that I you you may want to keep discussing

[1:50:54] Voice 14: as it goes into the communications portion of this meeting and just an aside Charles I'm wondering

[1:50:59] Voice 14: how often the whole consultancy group will be on screen in a meeting with select committee

[1:51:05] Voice 14: and I don't know whether you've thought about that or whether it would be yourself and one

[1:51:09] Voice 14: other principle perhaps or would or is your intention to have the whole group here because

[1:51:14] Voice 14: if it's the whole group here this is a rare moment and it might be replicated a couple more times

[1:51:18] Voice 14: in the future but I think you might end up not having that be that be the case so that that's

[1:51:24] Voice 14: a thought but with regards to the survey we survey the public a lot we do have some we're

[1:51:30] Voice 14: undertaking a we've heard a lot about the this time has come for a governance review and indeed

[1:51:37] Voice 14: But our policy statement, a profound project is underway with amendment to our policy statement, which speaks to the vision of the organization.

[1:51:45] Voice 14: It's been a two year process. So that's underway and there's been a fair amount of public consultancy associated with that.

[1:51:51] Voice 14: So there's some information there that's going to be helpful and it's been deep and ongoing.

[1:51:57] Voice 14: So you can add that to some of your public perception pieces.

[1:52:01] Voice 14: But in the RFP, it wasn't silent, but the idea of a full public participation process wasn't really delineated.

[1:52:13] Voice 14: And you've come back with an idea around it.

[1:52:16] Voice 14: So I think you should maybe speak with the committee around what that, or maybe arrange another time, is what that looks like,

[1:52:22] Voice 14: how comprehensive it would be, and what would be the mechanics around doing that.

[1:52:28] Voice 14: but and of course wanting to be as assistive as possible around how we get

[1:52:36] Voice 14: that that wording out there is it under the Allen's trust is it under the the

[1:52:39] Voice 14: notion of your agency there's a lot there when you go to a full public

[1:52:46] Voice 14: survey and we really want to get that right and I think that's related to

[1:52:50] Voice 14: communications but um you know um it's a it's a subset of it so i'm just intrigued by that piece

[1:52:59] Voice 14: and how big that gets and and where you think it is because it's the only piece that's sort of

[1:53:05] Voice 14: external to um a lot of our work thank you if i can on

[1:53:11] Voice 16: that because those are very good points

[1:53:13] Voice 16: i'm glad we're talking about it um the idea there's really only one survey that i it helps

[1:53:20] Voice 16: me to distinguish the two by thinking of one as an interview which it truly is it's not a survey

[1:53:25] Voice 16: that's being done and that's with uh counselors and a few select other people and then there is

[1:53:31] Voice 16: a survey and the survey is as it is traditionally done as a short questionnaire and in the uh

[1:53:37] Voice 16: timeline that you that charles sent uh it's indicated there that uh the tech the the select

[1:53:43] Voice 16: committee would would approve every word that went out because we'd need you to vet it because

[1:53:49] Voice 16: because for all kinds of sensitivities that we don't have.

[1:53:53] Voice 16: So you would see it before it went out, there's no question.

[1:53:56] Voice 16: The idea of doing it to everyone on the islands is twofold.

[1:54:00] Voice 16: One is the later understanding that your own capacity to do such online public surveys exists,

[1:54:07] Voice 16: and you have done them in the past, and we wondered whether that would be available for this purpose.

[1:54:12] Voice 16: That was the first thing. I wasn't aware of that at the time of the proposal being written.

[1:54:16] Voice 16: the other is that uh to do otherwise requires a random survey or no no no selection at all because

[1:54:23] Voice 16: you can't just pick and choose a few people from the various islands and talk to them about what

[1:54:28] Voice 16: they think is going on that absolutely all kinds of problems uh so we would have to fall back on

[1:54:34] Voice 16: essentially some kind of a process of a random selection and in a true polling uh methodology

[1:54:41] Voice 16: if we were going to do something both for defensive reasons so that we could say that

[1:54:45] Voice 16: we weren't picking our own favorites it was random and second because it has a it has a

[1:54:51] Voice 16: scientific basis to it but ideally uh sending out a a note for about a 10 minute survey to

[1:54:58] Voice 16: residents and saying please fill this in it won't take you long uh would be the best thing and i was

[1:55:06] Voice 16: anxious to raise it here because you're you're quite right it's not explicitly described in the

[1:55:12] Voice 16: the proposal and but if we can do that I think we'll have a better understanding of how people

[1:55:17] Voice 16: feel and what what what they know what what they understand about what the trust is one of the

[1:55:25] Voice 16: things that we we come across in the literature so far is how many people think the trust is

[1:55:31] Voice 16: different things it's there's some confusion as to what its functions are

[1:55:36] Voice 1: when you come down to

[1:55:37] Voice 16: of

[1:55:37] Voice 1: the ground and

[1:55:37] Voice 16: it's partly because there is no classic municipal government otherwise so

[1:55:41] Voice 16: they think this is it and you aren't completely it indeed

[1:55:47] Voice 7: chair

[1:55:50] Trustee Middleton: middleton uh yes uh trustee

[1:55:53] Trustee Middleton: critchley but we had this hand up before you trustee brent and then i promise we'll we will

[1:55:58] Trustee Middleton: immediately turn to you trustee critchley thank

[1:56:02] Trustee Critchley: you thank you just on the topic of surveys uh

[1:56:04] Trustee Critchley: just a word of caution here. If you are looking at online surveys, and you're relying totally on

[1:56:12] Trustee Critchley: that, you will get pushback from a vocal minority. They will say that this was cherry picked or it's

[1:56:20] Trustee Critchley: twisted towards people who have internet service. And you know that that represents a certain

[1:56:27] Trustee Critchley: demographic. So if you're going that route, I think you will need to actually publish in newspapers

[1:56:34] Trustee Critchley: papers and advertisements saying that you know we're doing this survey work if you don't it's

[1:56:41] Trustee Critchley: primarily internet but if you're if you don't have internet you can phone us or write us

[1:56:49] Trustee Critchley: and we'll send you a written copy yeah I've just been there done that and seen that with

[1:56:58] Trustee Critchley: with other things so it's amazing on these islands what can create controversy right

[1:57:05] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Trustee Kutcher.

[1:57:07] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Brent, please.

[1:57:08] Voice 7: So I just want to,

[1:57:09] Voice 7: I think we're coming to a close pretty quickly

[1:57:12] Voice 7: and I'd like to address this whole issue

[1:57:15] Voice 7: of the deliverable date.

[1:57:17] Voice 7: So I've sent a motion off to Laurie

[1:57:19] Voice 7: and it reads very simply,

[1:57:22] Voice 7: select committee moves that the management review

[1:57:23] Voice 7: final report deliverable date be extended to March, 2022.

[1:57:29] Voice 7: So that's my motion.

[1:57:32] Trustee Middleton: All right, thank you, Trustee Brent and Laurie,

[1:57:36] Trustee Middleton: Laurie, you said you sent that by email to Laurie?

[1:57:40] Trustee Middleton: It's

[1:57:40] Voice 7: on the screen.

[1:57:41] Trustee Middleton: Oh, yeah.

[1:57:42] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[1:57:44] Trustee Middleton: And for purposes of discussion then,

[1:57:47] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Wright, were you seconding?

[1:57:49] Trustee Middleton: Is that? Yes.

[1:57:50] Trustee Middleton: Okay, sorry.

[1:57:51] Trustee Middleton: All right.

[1:57:52] Trustee Middleton: Do you want to speak to your motion, Trustee Brent?

[1:57:55] Voice 7: No, I think it's been spoken to.

[1:57:57] Trustee Middleton: Anybody else wish to make comment?

[1:58:03] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Critchley?

[1:58:07] Trustee Critchley: Sorry to be always a pest here,

[1:58:08] Trustee Critchley: but um should that have a date on it the end of march perhaps for uh

[1:58:16] Voice 9: march council um

[1:58:19] Trustee Middleton: that

[1:58:21] Trustee Luckham: would be the end of february well

[1:58:24] Trustee Middleton: as a friendly amendment maybe we can say the end

[1:58:27] Trustee Middleton: of the actual terms of the contract are april 30th um we could say uh the report deliverable

[1:58:36] Trustee Middleton: date be extended to march council with final report um due april 30th by april 30th 2022

[1:58:53] Voice 6: i consider that friendly okay thank you and

[1:59:06] Trustee Middleton: and just once like change the just instead of review

[1:59:09] Trustee Middleton: just received be received april 30th thank you um i for myself i i would say it's a relatively benign

[1:59:18] Trustee Middleton: three-month extension that would give us a lot of value um so anybody else would wish to speak for

[1:59:26] Trustee Middleton: against the motion trustee langrace yeah

[1:59:29] Voice 13: i'm in support of the motion uh i just wonder about

[1:59:32] Voice 13: saying to be received by april 30th just oh yeah

[1:59:37] Voice 13: clarify uh

[1:59:39] Trustee Middleton: perfect thank you very much

[1:59:42] Trustee Middleton: any uh objections if i were to call the vote in favor i believe that passes so thank you very

[1:59:53] Trustee Middleton: very much. That's, I think, so we have, I don't want to just run, we were scheduled.

[2:00:00] Trustee Middleton: to end at three and i do want to be respectful of people's time um the one item that i don't

[2:00:05] Trustee Middleton: really want us to rush through because it sounds like there are some nuances it involves staff

[2:00:09] Trustee Middleton: the trust has a very capable communications department that we may very well be able to

[2:00:16] Trustee Middleton: harness the the the the abilities of as well as the connect with the work plan of our of our

[2:00:24] Trustee Middleton: consultants so um any issues with tabling the question of communications until our and the two

[2:00:34] Trustee Middleton: suggestions are one i'm thinking we might actually for the interest of uh founding the project and

[2:00:39] Trustee Middleton: having it um um come up to speed we may wish to to meet sooner than one month at this point

[2:00:46] Trustee Middleton: while we're still addressing these shall we say seminal questions and i'd suggest that perhaps

[2:00:51] Trustee Middleton: Perhaps we don't make our whole calendar this meeting, we just make our next meeting, and I'm suggesting that being another two weeks versus a month.

[2:01:01] Trustee Middleton: And then at the next meeting we address the issues of communications, and we build out our calendar for meeting with the consultants for the remaining number of months of the project.

[2:01:13] Trustee Middleton: project, because I think those were the only two, they're key items, but those

[2:01:25] Trustee Middleton: are the only two

[2:01:26] Trustee Middleton: outstanding, I think.

[2:01:27] Voice 17: Lee, can I say something? With respect to the monthly meetings, I think

[2:01:34] Voice 17: our whole team would like to participate in the monthly meetings when we discuss the progress

[2:01:39] Voice 17: and the issues that we're talking about. If you're going to have other meetings that are around

[2:01:46] Voice 17: a specific issue like communications it might just be uh jim and i and uh you know we could

[2:01:52] Voice 17: we could handle that just we don't want to you know our time is pretty valuable in terms of what

[2:01:58] Voice 17: we're trying to achieve here and so i think you know the that and the press release i mean i think

[2:02:03] Voice 17: uh you know russ and i offline will have some uh you know discussions about uh you know you know

[2:02:10] Voice 17: what you would table and not, which I discuss with my colleagues sometime after this call and

[2:02:16] Voice 17: then get back to Russ, you know, any way we can help in that regard, you know, I will. I do think

[2:02:23] Voice 17: an early press release does make some kind of sense, but I think on these other, there's a

[2:02:27] Voice 17: number of communications issues that have to do with the administration that, you know, James and

[2:02:34] Voice 17: Jim and I need to talk with Russ about and then come in with an agreed-upon approach

[2:02:42] Voice 17: so we're not wasting the select committee's time.

[2:02:47] Trustee Middleton: Thank you for that.

[2:02:49] Trustee Middleton: Fair enough.

[2:02:50] Trustee Middleton: CEO, please.

[2:02:52] Voice 14: Yeah, Mr. Chair, I think I would agree.

[2:02:54] Voice 14: I think just in the next couple of days, we should put out a general press release

[2:02:59] Voice 14: welcoming the work, identifying who's doing it.

[2:03:04] Voice 14: a quote from chair um the chair of trust council and perhaps a quote from charles about um where

[2:03:10] Voice 14: we're going with this thing and that would be that introductory public piece and uh that would then

[2:03:17] Voice 14: um make future more complicated discussions um you know it sets the sets the stage for those

[2:03:24] Voice 14: so i don't think you have to be very profound initially and it'd be great if select committee

[2:03:28] Voice 14: just said go ahead do that and then i'll work with chair luckham and mr kelly and we'll get it done

[2:03:34] Trustee Middleton: okay um do you uh if if that's agreeable to the committee do you need a motion for that or just

[2:03:41] Trustee Middleton: a note in the minutes to proceed if you want to do a motion to provide

[2:03:45] Voice 14: a press release um

[2:03:46] Voice 14: following this meeting this is you know a moment in time um the committee meeting the uh um the

[2:03:52] Voice 14: great uh great northern management team yeah

[2:03:57] Trustee Luckham: i would move that the uh select committee request

[2:04:00] Trustee Luckham: staff to create a press relief press release uh regarding the uh issuance of the contract um

[2:04:08] Trustee Luckham: with the uh a simple uh fact message i'll

[2:04:15] Voice 13: second that

[2:04:18] Trustee Middleton: trustee longer are you

[2:04:36] Trustee Luckham: with us there chair

[2:04:38] Trustee Luckham: middleton i think

[2:04:39] Trustee Middleton: he's waiting for the phone abide you turn one device off and it will attempt to

[2:04:44] Trustee Middleton: link through to anything it can find within its reach

[2:04:47] Trustee Luckham: so

[2:04:48] Trustee Middleton: uh it's uh that's

[2:04:51] Trustee Luckham: what the conspiracy

[2:04:51] Trustee Luckham: theorists tell us

[2:04:53] Trustee Middleton: it's uh anyway i apologize um so we i i'm assuming we had we had the the

[2:04:59] Trustee Middleton: secondary and um vice chair long guys and uh did anyone wish to speak to the motion um

[2:05:08] Trustee Middleton: all right i'll call the vote then please i see everyone's that looks like unanimously

[2:05:16] Trustee Middleton: unanimously in favor so thank you very much and so uh at that so we can save the niceties of

[2:05:21] Trustee Middleton: communication about the survey and what not for future meetings and so then for finally I'm

[2:05:26] Trustee Middleton: wondering I think we could perhaps simply choose our next meeting I'm I've not been able to get a

[2:05:33] Trustee Middleton: hold of trustee Morrison to try and figure out what her dates of available availability are

[2:05:38] Trustee Middleton: which I would like to do I'd like to see if we could get her perspective on on the committee

[2:05:42] Trustee Middleton: So perhaps if we could simply choose our next meeting date and reverting back to the original plan, is a month satisfactory or would our consulting team like to see us meet sooner than a month?

[2:05:58] Voice 10: A month is fine. We have a lot

[2:06:00] Trustee Middleton: of work to do for you before that.

[2:06:02] Trustee Middleton: Okay, so to

[2:06:03] Voice 10: that end,

[2:06:10] Trustee Middleton: the next meeting date would be, if we just take the same time frame, it's a Monday.

[2:06:16] Trustee Middleton: Monday June 7th 1 p.m uh if there are no overall objections could somebody please make a motion to

[2:06:24] Trustee Middleton: uh call our next meeting for June 7th Monday uh 1 p.m yes I'll do that okay

[2:06:31] Trustee Middleton: and seconded by trustee

[2:06:33] Trustee Middleton: Critchley all in favor aye so that's that that sets our next meeting date that's great well

[2:06:42] Trustee Middleton: thank you for the guidance at the end there to kind of get us on track with the communications

[2:06:45] Trustee Middleton: communications and meetings. And I think if there's any discussion, any other points anyone

[2:06:51] Trustee Middleton: wants us to make before I ask for a call for adjournment, we're a little over time, but not

[2:06:58] Trustee Middleton: too, too badly. So if any, there's any last minute comments there, you're welcome to make them now.

[2:07:04] Voice 10: It's a pleasure.

[2:07:08] Trustee Luckham: I'm looking forward to the review.

[2:07:10] Trustee Luckham: It's mutual. Thank you.

[2:07:12] Trustee Middleton: yes and

[2:07:13] Trustee Luckham: and russ i'll just note that the executive committee has a it appears has a meeting

[2:07:18] Trustee Luckham: scheduled on the 7th of june in the morning but i don't know why that is it seems maybe it's an

[2:07:24] Trustee Luckham: abnormality on my calendar

[2:07:25] Voice 11: i'll take a look

[2:07:27] Trustee Luckham: okay sorry

[2:07:29] Voice 11: chair middleton what was its starting time

[2:07:31] Voice 11: did you say two or one uh one p.m one p.m thank you thank you no you're welcome

[2:07:37] Voice 2: that meeting is

[2:07:39] Voice 2: the executive committee meeting before trust council jesus so

[2:07:43] Voice 14: that june 7th is three days

[2:07:44] Voice 14: before um trust council right um

[2:07:47] Voice 14: i don't know

[2:07:49] Voice 14: if that's when i the more i think about it it might

[2:07:52] Voice 14: be challenging all

[2:07:56] Trustee Middleton: right so no that's a fair point so we we have the choice of either meeting the

[2:08:00] Trustee Middleton: monday before such that there can be an interim report approved for trust council if necessary

[2:08:06] Trustee Middleton: There's no, I think it was indicated it might be a nice idea

[2:08:10] Trustee Middleton: or we could meet the week following trust council,

[2:08:13] Trustee Middleton: which would be the 14th.

[2:08:18] Trustee Luckham: I would suggest that week before,

[2:08:22] Trustee Luckham: because I think it's important that some kind of an update

[2:08:26] Trustee Luckham: be provided by this committee to council.

[2:08:28] Trustee Luckham: And that's gonna

[2:08:30] Trustee Luckham: be your only opportunity.

[2:08:32] Voice 11: Yeah, I would like to second that thought as well, Chair.

[2:08:35] Voice 11: chair and let's let's move this ahead because because at this stage traction and it is and

[2:08:42] Voice 11: seen to have traction is

[2:08:44] Trustee Middleton: going to be really vital uh mr kelly any objection to that date

[2:08:50] Voice 17: i don't think so i think you know

[2:08:52] Trustee Luckham: 24th of may

[2:08:54] Voice 17: 24th of may oh

[2:08:56] Trustee Middleton: that's a long weekend

[2:08:57] Trustee Middleton: uh no

[2:08:59] Voice 9: it's the 31st have to be the 31st yeah

[2:09:01] Trustee Middleton: the 31st of may 31st of may monday 31st of may 1 p.m

[2:09:05] Voice 9: sorry mr

[2:09:06] Trustee Middleton: chair yes sir so

[2:09:09] Voice 14: i think that's great you know with a sinking with trust council schedule

[2:09:12] Voice 14: but i think that there's this is the heavy data info gathering portion and i don't know whether

[2:09:18] Voice 14: three weeks is going to really work for the group here so as long as those expectations are

[2:09:23] Voice 14: just managed a little bit and that they'll be doing full research past that date so you might

[2:09:29] Voice 14: not have as full a completed meeting on the 31st as you would on the 14th as long as you're happy

[2:09:34] Voice 14: with that then that should be great yeah

[2:09:38] Trustee Middleton: yeah i think i think the comments are well made about

[2:09:41] Trustee Middleton: momentum and just prior to june council and we obviously now have a little more time to work

[2:09:46] Trustee Middleton: with the consultants so i think we can accommodate an expanded research uh window after the 31st so

[2:09:53] Trustee Middleton: perhaps i could ask for an amendment to the previous motion replacing the date

[2:09:59] Voice 13: i can you amend the motion that has already been passed i don't think you can

[2:10:09] Voice 10: I need a governance expert on Robert's Rules of Order.

[2:10:13] Trustee Luckham: I'll move

[2:10:14] Voice 10: that

[2:10:19] Trustee Luckham: the motion to convene at datum may the 7th be rescinded.

[2:10:23] Trustee Luckham: The thing is, we don't have a motion number before us.

[2:10:27] Trustee Middleton: I'll second that.

[2:10:28] Trustee Middleton: Okay. In favor?

[2:10:31] Trustee Middleton: I'm assuming we're all in favor of that.

[2:10:33] Trustee Middleton: Okay. And now a replacement motion, please, for May the 31st, Monday, 1 p.m., for our next select committee meeting.

[2:10:42] Trustee Middleton: I'll second that one.

[2:10:44] Trustee Middleton: Okay. Great.

[2:10:46] Trustee Middleton: So moved.

[2:10:46] Trustee Middleton: I made the motion. Fair enough.

[2:10:50] Trustee Middleton: In favor?

[2:10:52] Trustee Middleton: Okay. Great.

[2:10:54] Trustee Middleton: So that's our next meeting date.

[2:10:57] Trustee Middleton: So thank you for your patience, everybody.

[2:10:59] Trustee Middleton: I appreciate it.

[2:11:00] Trustee Middleton: It's been a pleasure meeting and I look forward to all of us working together

[2:11:03] Trustee Middleton: over these next number of months.

[2:11:05] Trustee Middleton: I think it will produce something of significance. I'm excited.

[2:11:09] Trustee Middleton: So thank you.

[2:11:12] Voice 13: Lee, can you let

[2:11:13] Voice 13: Ben and Deb know about the dates now as soon as possible,

[2:11:18] Voice 13: I guess.

[2:11:19] Voice 13: I will.

[2:11:20] Trustee Middleton: And then what I'll do for the next meeting is I'll work with them to find,

[2:11:23] Trustee Middleton: because I know,

[2:11:24] Trustee Middleton: I know already that that date won't work for either of them, unfortunately.

[2:11:27] Trustee Middleton: unfortunately um but um what i can do is get their input so that we can choose perhaps alternate

[2:11:34] Trustee Middleton: dates as a group which will take longer time than we really had available today so um it might work

[2:11:41] Trustee Middleton: for depth hopefully fingers crossed so onwards and upwards and

[2:11:44] Trustee Luckham: laurie will be sending out an invite

[2:11:46] Trustee Luckham: so i don't know how quickly you want

[2:11:48] Trustee Middleton: yeah thank

[2:11:50] Trustee Critchley: you all so thank you

[2:11:52] Trustee Critchley: have you a motion

[2:11:53] Trustee Middleton: to adjourn

[2:11:54] Trustee Middleton: please if i may yes thank you thank you thank you very much for meeting you thank

[2:12:02] Voice 3: you very

[2:12:05] Trustee Middleton: much