Islands Trust Council regular meeting, July 21, 2021

[0:00:07] everyone

[0:00:30] Voice 10: is well this morning generally

[0:00:35] Voice 7: generally

[0:00:37] Voice 10: that's good good answer a

[0:00:48] Voice 7: relatively quiet week

[0:00:49] Voice 7: in comparison to some previous weeks you've had certainly

[0:00:56] Trustee Rogers: um so far yeah yeah

[0:00:58] Voice 7: certainly um

[0:00:59] Voice 7: vacations are in full swing

[0:01:03] Voice 8: that's a good thing yeah yeah

[0:01:12] Trustee Luckham: well the tourism is certainly uh

[0:01:15] Trustee Luckham: full on at this point.

[0:01:17] Voice 7: Yes.

[0:01:18] Trustee Luckham: Good morning, David.

[0:01:22] Trustee Luckham: We didn't get regrets from Sue Ellen.

[0:01:26] Trustee Luckham: I'm presuming

[0:01:27] Trustee Luckham: we're expecting her. I wonder if she's got some

[0:01:29] Trustee Luckham: technology problems.

[0:01:33] Trustee Rogers: I haven't heard anything from her.

[0:01:36] Trustee Luckham: And are you

[0:01:38] Trustee Luckham: out in the islands?

[0:01:40] Trustee Luckham: No,

[0:01:41] Trustee Rogers: I'm here.

[0:01:42] Trustee Rogers: As you'll hear,

[0:01:44] Trustee Rogers: I've had two LTCs this week.

[0:01:49] Trustee Rogers: I'm in

[0:01:50] Trustee Rogers: Vancouver.

[0:01:51] Trustee Rogers: i'm just going

[0:02:01] Trustee Luckham: to send her a message just to make sure that she's not on a telephone conference or

[0:02:06] Trustee Luckham: something because of course on our gen on our calendar i think it still said conference but

[0:02:12] Trustee Luckham: maybe not it

[0:02:14] Trustee Rogers: said what mine

[0:02:16] Trustee Luckham: is different than everybody else's i think i think it might have

[0:02:19] Trustee Luckham: actually said it was still a conference but i'm just going to send her a message i resent her

[0:02:26] Voice 11: invitation as well oh

[0:02:27] Trustee Luckham: perfect so that should be obvious then oh

[0:02:36] Voice 5: there she is

[0:02:36] Trustee Luckham: oh perfect hey good

[0:02:39] Trustee Luckham: morning Sue Ellen was beginning to worry that something was amiss but sorry technical glitch

[0:02:49] Trustee Luckham: well that's what I figured the technology was sent to plague us you know that anyway good

[0:02:59] Trustee Luckham: Good morning everybody. So just start off acknowledging that living here in Coast Salish

[0:03:07] Trustee Luckham: territory, these are certainly painful times for realizing the history that has transpired

[0:03:27] Trustee Luckham: on this coast with respect to residential schools and across the nation. And our hearts

[0:03:33] Trustee Luckham: will continue to go out to nations and everyone that is struggling with the truth of this

[0:03:41] Trustee Luckham: situation that's unfolded for us. But I am grateful for living here in Coast Salish

[0:03:49] Trustee Luckham: Territory, here on Thetis Islands, Penelope and Laxon Territory. And as I know that all of the

[0:03:55] Trustee Luckham: other vice chairs and staff are grateful to live where they do in Coast Salish Territory.

[0:04:02] Trustee Luckham: it um before i uh begin the meeting and start moving into agenda um i have a a new um safety

[0:04:12] Trustee Luckham: thing here and i want to thank sue ellen for stimulating this so i'm just going to say as

[0:04:19] Trustee Luckham: chair of this committee i am committed to ensuring that all people who speak at this meeting are

[0:04:24] Trustee Luckham: treated fairly and respectfully and the language we use will reflect that no form of discrimination

[0:04:32] Trustee Luckham: nation is acceptable or tolerated, we will all take responsibility to create a safe, inclusive

[0:04:38] Trustee Luckham: environment for everyone to participate and be respected. Members of this committee and senior

[0:04:44] Trustee Luckham: staff may call point of order if a speaker's language is not respectful. The chair may mute

[0:04:51] Trustee Luckham: the speaker and ask that their language be adjusted before continuing. Comments that include

[0:04:55] Trustee Luckham: criticism or attacks on other people are considered discriminatory and are not allowed. All comments

[0:05:02] Trustee Luckham: should be accurate and direct thank you for helping make this a safe environment for all

[0:05:08] Trustee Luckham: so again thanks to Sue Ellen that was kind of a trial run on a new format for the safe working

[0:05:20] Trustee Luckham: place message and happy to receive some comments later but let's begin with adopting the agenda

[0:05:31] Trustee Luckham: agenda. We have one addendum of at 11.2 Port of Vancouver communications that I received

[0:05:42] Trustee Luckham: yesterday from ministry staff and I don't have the name of that in front of me but perhaps

[0:05:49] Trustee Luckham: that would be in correspondence lawyer I do believe I sent it to you yesterday and correspondence

[0:05:56] Trustee Luckham: correspondence under 11 point well it looks like you got it in here 11.1 no no different so 11.2

[0:06:10] Trustee Luckham: is a new item uh let me just see if i can it'll

[0:06:14] Voice 11: be 11.3 chair the correspondence you circulated

[0:06:18] Voice 11: okay thank

[0:06:19] Trustee Luckham: you very much so i don't have anything at 11.2 in my agenda or that's

[0:06:25] Trustee Luckham: Oh, sorry, so 11

[0:06:26] Trustee Luckham: .3, thank you, if I can think this through properly, 11.3 is the port commission,

[0:06:35] Trustee Luckham: or 11.2 is the port commission, and 11.3 is the new piece of correspondence,

[0:06:40] Trustee Luckham: which I circulated last night. Correct. Thank you.

[0:06:50] Trustee Luckham: Okay, very good then. So is there anything

[0:06:53] Trustee Luckham: else on the agenda from anybody looking for hands? No, not seeing any, so then let's adopt

[0:07:00] Trustee Luckham: stop the agenda as amended. Thank you very much. And then the first item of business

[0:07:09] Trustee Luckham: here would be the rising report. Oh, no, the first item of business would be, of course,

[0:07:15] Trustee Luckham: to introduce my colleagues and staff. And we have Trustee Dan Rogers, Gambier-Keech Island

[0:07:22] Trustee Luckham: Trust Area. Laura Patrick from Salt Spring, but of course, representing all the vice chairs,

[0:07:30] Trustee Luckham: of course represent local trust committees throughout the region and uh vice chair uh

[0:07:36] Trustee Luckham: trustee vice chair trustee and councillor uh sue ellen fast coming to us from bowen island

[0:07:43] Trustee Luckham: and um of course in a compliment of staff this morning uh is a cal russ hoxton pillar

[0:07:50] Trustee Luckham: good morning morning david marler uh julia mobs administrative services

[0:07:58] Trustee Luckham: And of course, Lloyd Foster, our executive coordinator, assisting us in the back materials

[0:08:05] Trustee Luckham: in this webinar.

[0:08:07] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[0:08:08] Trustee Luckham: So first item of business at 3.1 is our reporting out from our June 23rd closed meeting.

[0:08:16] Trustee Luckham: The only item I have to report on from that in-camera meeting was that the minutes of

[0:08:22] Trustee Luckham: the previous meeting were presented and adopted at that meeting.

[0:08:27] Trustee Luckham: meeting. Now today we come to adoption of the minutes of June the 23rd. These are draft

[0:08:35] Trustee Luckham: minutes. I'll ask members of the committee if there are any amendments to those minutes.

[0:08:42] Trustee Luckham: Not seeing any hands up, I'm going to adopt those minutes of June the 23rd by general

[0:08:48] Trustee Luckham: consent and thank you, Laurie, for looking after that for us. So we have a resolution

[0:08:53] Trustee Luckham: without meeting report in front of us there and that's on page 14 and that's

[0:09:06] Trustee Luckham: just there for information to do with moving this meeting from the 14th of

[0:09:12] Trustee Luckham: July to today now we go to the follow-up action list opportunity for directors

[0:09:21] Trustee Luckham: and the CEO to report out on what's been going on in the last time since the last

[0:09:27] Trustee Luckham: time we met and the follow-up action list um is uh begins with uh a little different today but i

[0:09:34] Trustee Luckham: think um i'm gonna not follow the way the uh unless i'm advised otherwise i'm not gonna follow the

[0:09:42] Trustee Luckham: way it's printed i'm gonna start with the cao as i usually do and then um and then go through uh

[0:09:51] Trustee Luckham: directors of bylaw enforcement because they're i don't see representative from or david mauler

[0:09:57] Trustee Luckham: is probably going to speak to bylaw enforcement. So, C.L. Hudson-Pilley, you can take the floor

[0:10:01] Trustee Luckham: and advise me if I need to manage this list any differently.

[0:10:06] Voice 7: Good morning, Executive Committee. It's a pleasure to be here with you today. No, technology

[0:10:14] Voice 7: is ruling our world, as we've included some of the bylaw enforcement managers. As we develop

[0:10:23] Voice 7: our capacity with bylaw enforcement, we thought it a value to get some of the key pieces in front

[0:10:28] Voice 7: of you on a regular basis. And of course, the software means it goes first. So I think you've

[0:10:34] Voice 7: done the right thing by reordering and David and myself later can address any of the bylaw

[0:10:39] Voice 7: enforcement matters, which you are aware of as we work through those various pieces.

[0:10:46] Voice 7: So now turning to the fuel, of course, available for any questions.

[0:10:52] Voice 7: um for item two electronic meetings i can say that um you know we're in this period of transition i

[0:10:58] Voice 7: think there has been some some decent progress um last week um so i'll just briefly speak to

[0:11:04] Voice 7: that right now and give you an update um last week we had uh um an early reach out from the

[0:11:12] Voice 7: ministry around uh discussion around the islands trust electronic meeting regulation and how we're

[0:11:20] Voice 7: going to and then pulling us into the whole bill 10 um provision process so uh i was happy with

[0:11:28] Voice 7: that because quite often some of these major um legislative or regulatory amendments occur and

[0:11:34] Voice 7: then later on the trust is considered but it seems like uh we are getting some particular attention

[0:11:40] Voice 7: um the discussion was good the the outcome is that um there will be an amendment likely to

[0:11:48] Voice 7: We just had some confirmation notes just a couple of days ago, a change to the electronic meeting regulation and instead the main point being instead of it just simply being special circumstances that the word regular will be included in our electronic meeting regulation, allowing for us to provide electronic meetings moving into the future, which, of course, is something that we have been waiting for.

[0:12:13] Voice 7: uh there's it's going to get a little sticky because they can't have um the the current regime

[0:12:21] Voice 7: and bill 10 overlap and we hear that september 28th is the day that there's going to be a

[0:12:28] Voice 7: transition from one to the other and of course they're hoping that these changes to the regulation

[0:12:31] Voice 7: will um be as sequenced as possible keep in mind we are then going to have to amend all of our

[0:12:40] Voice 7: our meeting procedures bylaws on an LTC basis. There is some debate about using section 11 of

[0:12:47] Voice 7: the Islands Trust Act, but I don't know whether that would really get us ahead in any way.

[0:12:52] Voice 7: So good conversation. The second thing that you should be aware of is that this will apply to

[0:13:01] Voice 7: local trust committees, trust council, and executive committee, meaning a fully electronic

[0:13:07] Voice 7: meeting with the provision of a public meeting space. For council committees, because there's

[0:13:13] Voice 7: silence right now from a regulatory or legislative perspective, there will be the ability to have

[0:13:21] Voice 7: electronic meetings, but no requirement right now, unless we choose to do so to have a public

[0:13:27] Voice 7: meeting space associated with that. And I think that is going to be quite a benefit for the trust

[0:13:31] Voice 7: moving forward because it's not much of a provision by having the Victoria office open

[0:13:39] Voice 7: for let's say an FPC meeting or trust programs committee meeting and how would Islanders get

[0:13:46] Voice 7: to that space and we can't open spaces across the whole trust region for a one and a half two hour

[0:13:51] Voice 7: meeting so I think that's going to be a benefit to us overall and so that's part one part two

[0:13:59] Voice 7: Two is then how do we deal with the fact that some of your LTCs may ask for just having meetings, people are getting more comfortable meeting in spaces, there's the allowance to have 50 people in an indoor space at this point.

[0:14:11] Voice 7: And how do we not buy technology, if indeed Trust Council, when it gets its report in September around a cost-benefit analysis for having a fully hybrid meeting situation, if they choose to go that route.

[0:14:24] Voice 7: We don't want to spend any money in the interim on technology that would allow us to at least broadcast a meeting without having it being applicable to some future past the end of September.

[0:14:39] Voice 7: so we think we've we've we're back to um mark has come up with uh you know it's a poser but he's

[0:14:46] Voice 7: come up with um a package um that's going to cost approximately four or five hundred dollars each

[0:14:51] Voice 7: we're going to try and create four of them such that in the next couple of months if you have an

[0:14:56] Voice 7: ltc we would get that material to you and at the very least we'd be able to record or record and

[0:15:01] Voice 7: broadcast or broadcast and record and post your meetings so we're working towards that end so

[0:15:08] Voice 7: So that is item two, the regulatory piece, the administrative piece, as well as providing

[0:15:16] Voice 7: and trying to get some technology to you.

[0:15:18] Voice 7: And thirdly, getting a report to Trust Council for options.

[0:15:24] Voice 7: Any questions on that?

[0:15:28] Voice 7: Yes, sir.

[0:15:31] Voice 8: Dan Rogers.

[0:15:34] Trustee Rogers: Thanks for that.

[0:15:36] Trustee Rogers: And good morning, all.

[0:15:38] Trustee Rogers: And thanks for, I'm glad to hear that we're making some progress on that because you're

[0:15:43] Trustee Rogers: correct.

[0:15:43] Trustee Rogers: We're going to have LTCs that not only will want to, but will want to have in-person meetings.

[0:15:51] Trustee Rogers: I've already had two of my LTCs say that they want to do that and wanted to know.

[0:15:56] Trustee Rogers: And I said, I don't know what the technology is going to look like.

[0:15:59] Trustee Rogers: It will probably look like we'll be able to broadcast, but not have the kind of interconnectivity that we have currently.

[0:16:06] Trustee Rogers: um we've talked about options like people can then phone in which is of course seems like a

[0:16:15] Trustee Rogers: um a um a flintstone like technology compared to what we're doing right i mean it feels odd to be

[0:16:22] Trustee Rogers: going back to to something that uh where people would call in and you could hear them on a speaker

[0:16:28] Trustee Rogers: phone um if they weren't at the meeting so okay i'm glad to hear that and i'm guessing this is

[0:16:35] Trustee Rogers: is an evolving thing as you as you get both the regulatory technology i'm hoping that we can

[0:16:41] Trustee Rogers: i'm thinking it's going to be sort of the end of september that i'm going to be faced with and i'm

[0:16:46] Trustee Rogers: guessing other uh chairs are going to be faced with having to implement um something i've got

[0:16:53] Trustee Rogers: an agreement with one of my ltcs to do a continuation of this process at the beginning

[0:17:00] Trustee Rogers: of september but by the end of september as i roll into other meetings we're going to be back into

[0:17:05] Trustee Rogers: to traveling and yes so um uh hoping we have this that i mean to the extent that we can have some

[0:17:14] Trustee Rogers: sort of interconnectivity that's the real challenge i don't think the broadcast is the

[0:17:18] Trustee Rogers: challenge i think at least as i understand the technology but it's the trying to connect with

[0:17:23] Trustee Rogers: other people um where the challenge lies so thank you for the work that's been done on this

[0:17:30] Voice 7: well

[0:17:31] Voice 7: Well, just as a follow-up, a couple of things.

[0:17:35] Voice 7: Trust Council has no overriding authority, nor do we in the administration have any ability

[0:17:41] Voice 7: to say, no, we can't have a live meeting, and nor would we want to have that.

[0:17:47] Voice 7: So it really comes down to the local trust committees and their determinations on what's

[0:17:51] Voice 7: best for them.

[0:17:52] Voice 7: Your base level consideration right now is, yes, we can have one, and it will be old school.

[0:17:58] Voice 7: And it would have, you know, if it happened next week, there would be no broadcasting, there'd be simply a meeting on an island. And the planning staff are prepared for that. And we hope that that's our bottom line. And we slowly raise our capacity as all of the things we've just talked about, lay out, we just hope all those tiles fall in the right sequence.

[0:18:20] Voice 7: um the other thought is that some of our task forces committee you know general community

[0:18:28] Voice 7: meetings and so forth there might be a demand and a request from ltcs to have those be live before

[0:18:36] Voice 7: the ltcs are meeting live and um also um given the health provisions and moving into stage three

[0:18:46] Voice 7: there's no real reason to to not have not have that be the case so those will be dealt with on

[0:18:53] Voice 7: a one-off basis the only limitation we have right now would be potentially some staff capacity and

[0:19:00] Voice 7: relearning our way back out into the field in this basis so thank you for those comments and those

[0:19:07] Voice 7: are just a couple of follow-up items so I'll carry on forestry I'm turning my mind back to

[0:19:16] Voice 7: this and as an organization we're turning our mind back to forest protection and a briefing

[0:19:21] Voice 7: that will be brought to you in the next uh bit um like things do um this was very top of mind for

[0:19:28] Voice 7: the organization following rain coast and we had some discussions and when there was discussion

[0:19:33] Voice 7: you know the idea that the trust wasn't um uh stepping into this space as strongly as it might

[0:19:41] Voice 7: might be um circumstances changed and the policy statement discussion sort of took over the um the

[0:19:47] Voice 7: the dominant um that became the dominant think piece for the islands trust over the last month

[0:19:53] Voice 7: or so um so our work goes back to this but as you can recall even from the special meeting discussion

[0:20:00] Voice 7: and the number of comments that we got back we don't have certainty um around the forest

[0:20:07] Voice 7: the interest in both community and completely throughout the islands trust other than their

[0:20:13] Voice 7: direction to undertake section um a tree cutting uh so i do think that we are we should have a

[0:20:20] Voice 7: dedicated session at trust council around this and begin to um because the community's touched

[0:20:27] Voice 7: into it a little bit and are and are providing some feedback and we're getting feedback from

[0:20:32] Voice 7: specifically forestry stakeholders um some sort of perhaps facilitated discussion or at least

[0:20:40] Voice 7: focused discussion on the potential outcomes and how those things how the forestry tool could be

[0:20:45] Voice 7: used that will certainly aid us with the ministry who are off um working on this as i've told you

[0:20:52] Voice 7: we've had one or two initial meetings so that remains a piece that's in play um we are in touch

[0:21:00] Voice 7: with the ministry with regards item four I think the events may have gone past

[0:21:08] Voice 7: speaking to our minister specifically around Comox but I will I will double

[0:21:13] Voice 7: check my efforts I know that what we have been in touch with the Comox First

[0:21:17] Voice 7: Nation we are in touch with the ministry and have made ourselves available to any

[0:21:21] Voice 7: potential outcome that would occur there item five is back to electronic meetings

[0:21:29] Voice 7: and then you see a number of completed items.

[0:21:32] Voice 7: So with that, Mr. Chair,

[0:21:33] Voice 7: I will then turn to my extemporaneous notes.

[0:21:37] Voice 7: I've got three or four items to bring up with you.

[0:21:40] Trustee Luckham: Right, let's just see then if there's any questions

[0:21:43] Trustee Luckham: at this time on any other parts of your report there.

[0:21:47] Trustee Luckham: So Trustee Rogers, back to you.

[0:21:49] Trustee Rogers: Thank you, and I'm sorry to be talking so much,

[0:21:52] Trustee Rogers: but I do have a couple of questions or comments.

[0:21:56] Trustee Rogers: I'm not sure which they are.

[0:21:58] Trustee Rogers: Thank you for your report.

[0:21:59] Trustee Rogers: And I agree with you. I mean, it seemed to me that we had two items that were sort of top of mind of our agenda that have sort of been overtaken by the trust policy statement and to a certain extent by the governance review, which is the forestry aspect.

[0:22:14] Trustee Rogers: I note it had a February timeframe. And of course, that was about when all of this started to overtake those two things, started to overtake the capacity of the organization.

[0:22:27] Trustee Rogers: The other one, of course, is the issue of the one that arose, you weren't there, CAO, but it arose about the ask of the province or developing a strategy to ask the province for different or increased amount of resources.

[0:22:45] Trustee Rogers: And it's interesting that those things, I mean, it's interesting, it's challenging that those things have sort of fallen off, not because they aren't important, but because we can only do so many things at one time.

[0:22:57] Trustee Rogers: My question is about the forestry. I know that you're engaging with the ministry on the, I'll call it not undefined, but the unfleshed out ask regarding tree cutting authority.

[0:23:14] Trustee Rogers: And I use that phraseology for anybody watching when I say that I know you keep asking us what people, you know, the ministry will want to know what people want to do with it, you know, to what end.

[0:23:25] Trustee Rogers: And I know you've been engaging with the ministry on PMFL issues because there's

[0:23:31] Trustee Rogers: an ongoing discussion for probably 15 months related to that.

[0:23:36] Trustee Rogers: My question is the suite of discussion we've had around forestry is broader than that.

[0:23:41] Trustee Rogers: Is there other discussions with the ministry related to forestry beyond those two specific items or just on those two specific items?

[0:23:53] Trustee Rogers: And I'll just say one more thing before I ask the answer.

[0:23:56] Trustee Rogers: is i do see that some of the the broader scope of forestry attention um and attention to forestry

[0:24:06] Trustee Rogers: issues etc is sort of evidence in the trust the draft trust policy statement around around creating

[0:24:14] Trustee Rogers: um uh forestry continuity i can't speak this morning continuity and etc etc so some of it's

[0:24:24] Trustee Rogers: playing out there as well but i just wondered whether anything else specific was happening

[0:24:29] Trustee Rogers: in discussions with

[0:24:30] Voice 7: you there's lots so i'll just try and now if they're helping my mind

[0:24:35] Voice 7: address a few of them um sepa and david marler have met on a continuous basis with flinro

[0:24:41] Voice 7: and jeff sheldrake and that's talking about crown lands and crown land forestry and our

[0:24:49] Voice 7: our referral process, our language there, and of course, woodlots and First Nations woodlots.

[0:24:56] Voice 7: So that is, you know, I'd say almost a third or more of the focus around forestry.

[0:25:02] Voice 7: And if I take us back a little bit, the forestry question encapsulates about five or six different elements.

[0:25:10] Voice 7: One, powers that we currently have.

[0:25:13] Voice 7: so that's the use of dps and whether we can use stronger enforcement measures around development

[0:25:18] Voice 7: permits the mapping of those forestry areas which is a current project already then there was later

[0:25:26] Voice 7: on go get section eight so that's in the municipal tree cutting power and because that was on the

[0:25:31] Voice 7: books that was then put into the policy statement as strong direction its absence would have been

[0:25:37] Voice 7: being notable. That, of course, has connected with members of community and probably gotten

[0:25:43] Voice 7: other trustees to go, okay, well, whoa, you know, how would we use that? You'll recall the Raincoast

[0:25:54] Voice 7: presentation and a couple hours later, Trust Council saying, let's do those six things

[0:26:00] Voice 7: has led us to a variety of other areas. One of is the use of a larger conservation zoning

[0:26:06] Voice 7: zoning type of approach to the islands trust.

[0:26:10] Voice 7: And what would be the challenges if we were using conservation zoning in any

[0:26:14] Voice 7: potential cost recovery by any land holder who held a lot of forestry value

[0:26:22] Voice 7: and would compensation be required? So that's another element.

[0:26:27] Voice 7: And then the ongoing PMFL discussions and our increasing understanding around

[0:26:32] Voice 7: the PMFL of how much land actually is in the trust,

[0:26:36] Voice 7: how much wood is being taken off i will note that lumber prices have collapsed over the last couple

[0:26:41] Voice 7: of weeks so we might see some changes there um and how interested is the province right now on

[0:26:48] Voice 7: amending the the private managed forest act and where it seemed like it had a head of steam a

[0:26:55] Voice 7: couple years ago uh it i won't say it seems like less but it seems to be less so if we summarize

[0:27:01] Voice 7: eyes the pmfl our local government ability around development permitting um mapping and enforcement

[0:27:09] Voice 7: our consideration of asking for extended powers around tree cutting itself and the ongoing

[0:27:15] Voice 7: discussions from on a crown land basis and the way i look at this is always just looking down

[0:27:20] Voice 7: at the land and going there's private lands there's crown land um there's pmfl there's

[0:27:27] Voice 7: areas that we have under development permit and looking at it from sort of those three or four

[0:27:32] Voice 7: different perspectives so we're trying to weave all that together into some sort of coherent

[0:27:36] Voice 7: um thread and indeed the section eight piece has pulled it forward and put it into the

[0:27:43] Voice 7: into the policy statement in another world um maybe we'd have done some research around the

[0:27:49] Voice 7: section eight um possibilities and then come back and made a sort of graduated decision

[0:27:55] Voice 7: decision but we are where we are right now so we're having to back cast into where do we want

[0:28:02] Voice 7: to go with this and of course the ministry and others don't see us as having a lot of different

[0:28:08] Voice 7: perspectives once we make that request it's a unified request from the islands trust to say okay

[0:28:14] Voice 7: and with regards to that specific item they're looking at a more refined problem definition

[0:28:19] Voice 7: finishing paper from us that we would have to get past you and um get your interest in so that is

[0:28:25] Voice 7: in five minutes where we sit with the forestry matter very

[0:28:32] Trustee Luckham: good thank you russ anything else on

[0:28:34] Trustee Luckham: um ceo hudson pillars uh initial report there no um i'm just going to make a brief

[0:28:45] Trustee Luckham: brief remark on the request to meet or have a conversation, if not meet, with our minister

[0:28:55] Trustee Luckham: or even the deputy minister with respect to the Comox First Nations meeting.

[0:29:07] Trustee Luckham: Because I think that what I said either there or somewhere else, and the trouble is,

[0:29:13] Trustee Luckham: as a time marches on, the recollection of what transpired and what the concerns were and the

[0:29:21] Trustee Luckham: like fade. And I'll be saying at this point in time, it would require some serious recollection

[0:29:27] Trustee Luckham: on my part to determine what the thoughts were there about meeting with the minister. But I think

[0:29:35] Trustee Luckham: if I captured one thing out of that, is that if there is an archaeological site that is unearthed

[0:29:41] Trustee Luckham: tomorrow, we are not very well prepared as an organization, I think, in concert with

[0:29:48] Trustee Luckham: our ministry and other ministries to mitigate the circumstances in some way.

[0:30:00] Trustee Luckham: So I think there is some import to continuing at that.

[0:30:04] Trustee Luckham: But I completely recognize that staff, trustees, council, all of us are overwhelmed with these

[0:30:14] Trustee Luckham: other activities and indeed significantly the policy statement and indeed the tree cutting.

[0:30:20] Trustee Luckham: So I think that I would like to weigh in on that to say that I think that that conversation

[0:30:27] Trustee Luckham: conversation is still necessary to put us in a good place and can and and support all of the

[0:30:34] Trustee Luckham: nations well that's not exactly the right thing to say but just be able to express mine or our

[0:30:43] Trustee Luckham: concerns about protecting these archaeological sites in the short term before because I think

[0:30:51] Trustee Luckham: it came up in that conversation and over the next few years or something we're going to fix this

[0:30:56] Trustee Luckham: it seems to me that this could happen tomorrow and that's my brother's voice that i don't

[0:31:02] Trustee Luckham: necessarily expect a response unless you wanted to all

[0:31:07] Voice 7: i'd say mr chair

[0:31:07] Trustee Luckham: is um oh

[0:31:09] Voice 7: okay go ahead

[0:31:11] Trustee Luckham: uh

[0:31:13] Voice 7: no that that refinement of what of your consideration is helpful um with regards to

[0:31:18] Voice 7: specific matter we are doing the we the only thing i wouldn't disagree is the wrong word

[0:31:23] Voice 7: i would say that we are doing as much as we can legally do in in and the capacity that we have so

[0:31:30] Voice 7: we're not not having this as a top of mind process so we are right out there doing um and i would say

[0:31:39] Voice 7: compared to others um trying to be as nimble as we possibly can and we just can't be nimble by

[0:31:47] Voice 7: definition so um i think we um seep has been having some very good conversations with comox

[0:31:54] Voice 7: to the degree we can but let's face it there's other issues that are at play for nations up and

[0:31:58] Voice 7: down throughout the trust area and um we're respectful of that and uh i think um a note

[0:32:08] Voice 7: to the minister not asking for a meeting but emphasizing um an increased ability for us to

[0:32:13] Voice 7: to honor those agreements.

[0:32:14] Voice 7: And if we can't it that way would be completely appropriate.

[0:32:20] Trustee Luckham: Okay, yeah.

[0:32:22] Trustee Luckham: Let's go to the rest of your report.

[0:32:24] Voice 7: Okay, I'll be quickly so that I already spoke

[0:32:26] Voice 7: about electronic meetings.

[0:32:28] Voice 7: Connected Coast going up and down the,

[0:32:30] Voice 7: I've had a couple of trustees call it in

[0:32:32] Voice 7: around the Connected Coast and you know,

[0:32:34] Voice 7: how can you know, I'm starting to,

[0:32:36] Voice 7: and I've talked to the CAO

[0:32:37] Voice 7: from the Strathcona Regional District a couple of times

[0:32:41] Voice 7: because the trustees do need some resource how do they access this last mile funding

[0:32:47] Voice 7: I'm pointing them towards the regional district substantially but there's also

[0:32:51] Voice 7: the small service providers that can't access some of those funds

[0:32:55] Voice 7: and so I'm just letting you know that that is popping up as a recurring piece because of course

[0:33:01] Voice 7: there's some opportunity associated with it internally into inside the organization

[0:33:05] Voice 7: organization um we've got a couple administrative people who have moved on to other jobs inside the

[0:33:14] Voice 7: province you should know that um uh what we're finding post-covid is there's just a ton of

[0:33:20] Voice 7: movement uh that's going on uh and um opportunity and we're always happy when uh when people come

[0:33:29] Voice 7: through the organization and go on to better things if that's that's how they see it or

[0:33:32] Voice 7: our advanced responsibilities.

[0:33:34] Voice 7: We're a pretty horizontal organization,

[0:33:37] Voice 7: not a ton of depth.

[0:33:38] Voice 7: So we understand that's just part of the package.

[0:33:41] Voice 7: The province is coming out in, you know,

[0:33:43] Voice 7: and a contributing factor,

[0:33:45] Voice 7: the province is coming out

[0:33:46] Voice 7: with their work from home strategy,

[0:33:48] Voice 7: which they've refined a little bit.

[0:33:49] Voice 7: And we're seeing it be much more flexible than it was.

[0:33:52] Voice 7: I think that's coming out,

[0:33:54] Voice 7: Julia told me September 8th or 9th.

[0:33:57] Voice 7: And then we would be,

[0:34:00] Voice 7: we are currently working with our staff

[0:34:02] Voice 7: to mimic essentially that scenario and that process identifying of each staff person and

[0:34:08] Voice 7: their relation to the physical workspace and we would roll that out i would hope a couple weeks

[0:34:16] Voice 7: afterwards nonetheless these are all provincial employees they can avail themselves of the larger

[0:34:20] Voice 7: picture but we do think that there's an islands trust brand if you will that we will put into

[0:34:28] Voice 7: to place just because of the travel and people from different areas. The disease prevention plan,

[0:34:35] Voice 7: there's an obligation to have a disease prevention plan instead of a safety plan.

[0:34:39] Voice 7: All local governments have to do that. I'd say we're substantially there. I just have to carve

[0:34:44] Voice 7: it out and put it into a specific form. What it talks about really is a lot of common sense

[0:34:49] Voice 7: elements, but making them more official in the workplace. You don't show up if you're sick.

[0:34:53] Voice 7: You stay away from people. People can wear masks, common area cleaning, and just general healthfulness in the workplace.

[0:35:04] Voice 7: With regards to the Great Northern Management piece, there was a meeting, it might have been touched on in telecom, but there was a meeting last week, and I'm just going to, I won't share screen, but I want to refer to a screen.

[0:35:23] Voice 7: and at it there was discussions around who to interview because this is the bulk of the work

[0:35:30] Voice 7: of this body and I've offered a number of staff up and I'm going to list those staff off for you

[0:35:36] Voice 7: right now and I was also asked or as part of this for any referrals from outside actors generally

[0:35:44] Voice 7: who come from the government world to contribute and have some sort of conversations and there's a

[0:35:52] Voice 7: template and a guide associated with each of these conversations both a trustee conversation

[0:35:57] Voice 7: a staff conversation and external external to the islands trust conversation so i've recommended

[0:36:05] Voice 7: the usual senior staff david carmen claire julia mobs myself though i do spend a fair amount of

[0:36:14] Voice 7: time with these people at this point but also warren dingman manager of bylaw compliance and

[0:36:18] Voice 7: engagement um as he has a unique position relating to community and everyone else

[0:36:24] Voice 7: and robert kajina regional regional planning manager and stefan sermac regional planning

[0:36:29] Voice 7: manager as those positions are very unique to the islands trust and can provide these people

[0:36:34] Voice 7: some insight into how the function of the organization works uh keeping in mind these

[0:36:40] Voice 7: are quite experienced people a lot of um federal ex-federal ministers assistant deputy ministers

[0:36:48] Voice 7: you know some provincial experience as well some first nations governance um experience but they

[0:36:55] Voice 7: would not have had a lot of experience at the ltc level and having an increased understanding on

[0:37:01] Voice 7: their part of how important ltc's function within the islands trust fabric is going to be really

[0:37:06] Voice 7: important so that is going that list has gone forward to them and they will essentially choose

[0:37:12] Voice 7: generally um and then for um external uh provincial and government contacts i've recommended

[0:37:22] Voice 7: our assistant deputy minister the director of governance uh structures at muni kim grout from

[0:37:28] Voice 7: the agricultural land commission um the executive director regional operations for flynn row

[0:37:33] Voice 7: um zachary young the senior negotiator with murr and then um i put three caos um on here none of

[0:37:42] Voice 7: of whom have confirmed yet or even been approached and that would be Bob Lapp and Brian Carruthers

[0:37:47] Voice 7: and Al Radke spreading out people who occupy my position so that's all sitting with the

[0:37:55] Voice 7: consultants the trustee note went out to late last week to all trustees to organize those

[0:38:00] Voice 7: conversations and if I do all the math 26 plus 8 you're into 30 32 34 and then you've got 8 so

[0:38:11] Voice 7: So we're up to 40 just with people that we know and there's some discussion of 10 or so people from the greater community that would be recommended by the various members of the select committee themselves, four or five each.

[0:38:30] Voice 7: And then this group will look through and see whether the rationale is for each of those, how they sit, and then select another 10 people, I guess, and move forward.

[0:38:41] Voice 7: So that's really my summary of the management list.

[0:38:46] Voice 7: Myself, Lisa and Claire will be meeting with a couple of the consultants next week to have a conversation around our reconciliation efforts over the last couple of years.

[0:38:57] Voice 7: That's my report.

[0:39:02] Trustee Luckham: That's a lot. Thank you. Dan Rogers, question.

[0:39:07] Trustee Rogers: Yeah, I'm happy to defer to either of the other vice chairs because I've been asking all the questions this morning if they had one.

[0:39:13] Trustee Rogers: But so just on that last piece, I didn't watch the meeting live, but I did watch the recording of the governance.

[0:39:28] Trustee Rogers: And yes, much of the meeting was dominated by this idea of who outside of the trust should be interviewed.

[0:39:37] Trustee Rogers: um and it it's it was a very i found it to be a challenging dynamic um because uh because uh

[0:39:50] Trustee Rogers: of course they've said they are only going to interview 50 so it's not a it's not really a

[0:39:55] Trustee Rogers: community consultation but there's been some expressed interest for a community consultation

[0:40:01] Trustee Rogers: if you will i mean some people have written and some of the trustees seem to think oh we have to

[0:40:06] Trustee Rogers: go talk to our customers as a couple of trustees use the word but how you choose those is given how

[0:40:14] Trustee Rogers: limited it's going to be is going to be you know it's going to it's going to absolutely tailor the

[0:40:20] Trustee Rogers: response that you get because you can't go to 400 people and presume that over the 400 you're going

[0:40:27] Trustee Rogers: to get a an evening out of points of view if you instead have only 10 or 12 and i and so that was

[0:40:34] Trustee Rogers: that that was basically an hour of the hour of 45 minutes of the hour and a half meeting with

[0:40:39] Trustee Rogers: that discussion and it was left in this sort of odd ambiguous position that they would each of

[0:40:49] Trustee Rogers: them would give five names but and i expressed to the chair afterwards that my view was that's

[0:40:55] Trustee Rogers: problematic if you only take the names from those because those nine or eight or nine people

[0:41:01] Trustee Rogers: come at the trust in in many cases from a very particular point of view that's why they're on

[0:41:07] Trustee Rogers: the committee um they come from a point of view uh that is not shared by a whole bunch of other

[0:41:13] Trustee Rogers: trustees uh in in some cases and so that's that's outstanding and um i i was i heard two messages

[0:41:23] Trustee Rogers: one was from i don't know her actual name but everybody calls her mf yeah um uh that they would

[0:41:30] Trustee Rogers: ask trustees for when they talk to them for other names and that would be part of the process but

[0:41:36] Trustee Rogers: then at the end it sounded like it was just going to be the seven or eight members of the committee

[0:41:42] Trustee Rogers: that were going to suggest names and I think that latter option is probably a bit problematic and I

[0:41:47] Trustee Rogers: guess that's a political thing but I should I think we should follow up on on how that's going

[0:41:53] Trustee Rogers: to work because it seems to me that either they do a broad investigation or or they don't

[0:42:00] Trustee Rogers: do community consultation it's not it's not a oh we're going to cherry pick a few people to do it

[0:42:06] Trustee Rogers: with so that's i that's my i'm just i'm saying that publicly because i'm i'm a little concerned

[0:42:12] Trustee Rogers: that if we're going to do that we it should be somewhat balanced in the people they talk to in

[0:42:18] Trustee Rogers: the sense of they're getting different points of view and i don't know really don't know i guess

[0:42:23] Trustee Rogers: i'm just saying it i'm not really asking you to comment because you don't control that outcome

[0:42:27] Trustee Rogers: but I don't know if the chair,

[0:42:29] Trustee Rogers: cause he does sit on that committee.

[0:42:31] Trustee Rogers: I heard the chair express some concerns about it,

[0:42:34] Trustee Rogers: but that's where it ended up as far as I could tell,

[0:42:38] Trustee Rogers: unless I'm mistaken, so.

[0:42:41] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, maybe I'll come to Laura in a moment.

[0:42:45] Trustee Luckham: Just seeing as I was invited to remark,

[0:42:49] Trustee Luckham: I too have some very, very similar concerns about that,

[0:42:53] Trustee Luckham: especially given the numbers.

[0:42:56] Trustee Luckham: um but what i i what's come from what you just said is more a question than an answer

[0:43:01] Trustee Luckham: in that because you use the language that we um should do something or be considered

[0:43:07] Trustee Luckham: in this of course this is an independent essentially a select committee that has some

[0:43:12] Trustee Luckham: autonomy of its own and um what do you see is that that the executive committee is not

[0:43:19] Trustee Luckham: outside of myself sitting on that committee um what do you see that we should be doing

[0:43:24] Trustee Luckham: there in order to influence that other than in the interviews that each of us will have the

[0:43:32] Trustee Luckham: opportunity to speak with the consultants directly do you have any suggestions dan

[0:43:38] Trustee Luckham: no

[0:43:41] Trustee Rogers: um i i don't know i i mean i i as i said i expressed my view individually uh to the chair

[0:43:47] Trustee Rogers: um and was sort of left with with uh oh yeah yeah that's probably a legitimate concern

[0:43:54] Trustee Rogers: And I don't know. I mean, the process seems to be a bit undefined. And I don't envy the consultants in trying to figure out how to do that, given I don't know. I guess I guess my question is, I don't know if they think they're taking direction from that committee related to that.

[0:44:20] Trustee Rogers: I would have assumed that them as professionals

[0:44:22] Trustee Rogers: would make those decisions on who the interviewer is.

[0:44:27] Trustee Rogers: I

[0:44:27] Trustee Luckham: have a similar thought there.

[0:44:30] Trustee Luckham: So I don't have any other answers for you,

[0:44:33] Trustee Luckham: so I'm going to go to Laura Patrick

[0:44:34] Trustee Luckham: and then to Sue Ellen Fast,

[0:44:36] Trustee Luckham: and whether you want to speak specifically

[0:44:38] Trustee Luckham: on this topic or something else.

[0:44:39] Trustee Luckham: Go ahead, Laura Patrick.

[0:44:41] Trustee Patrick: I concur with Dan,

[0:44:43] Trustee Patrick: and this sort of follows on the original,

[0:44:46] Trustee Patrick: when the task force itself,

[0:44:49] Trustee Patrick: self you know it sent to its contact lists the rfp um to to bring it attention to the people

[0:44:57] Trustee Patrick: it wanted to and so forth so it's controlling um a lot and um you know it's not representative

[0:45:09] Trustee Patrick: of trust council so it's very concerning when you see these processes that aren't representative

[0:45:13] Trustee Patrick: representative so I'm concerned. I'm

[0:45:20] Trustee Luckham: sure it is a decision of council to advance this work so

[0:45:25] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Fast over to you.

[0:45:27] Trustee Fast: Sure thank you chair I was going to suggest when my interview happens

[0:45:32] Trustee Fast: a few other kinds of people that they might want to interview for example First Nations

[0:45:41] Trustee Fast: leadership that are working with us on consultation. The CAO of Bowen Island Municipality

[0:45:52] Trustee Fast: for a couple of ideas. They're not exactly external, but they are groups that they are

[0:45:59] Trustee Fast: other intergovernmental, well, in Bowen's case, part of the Federation. If they're looking for

[0:46:07] Trustee Fast: different perspectives, I would hope that they are looking for different perspectives. And I

[0:46:12] Trustee Fast: think that's part of the experimental design of how they're going to come up with their conclusions

[0:46:15] Trustee Fast: shortly and so uh i hope that the um professionals um look for the information that they need in

[0:46:25] Trustee Fast: order to make uh recommendations for trust council um thank you yeah

[0:46:33] Trustee Luckham: thank you um i guess

[0:46:35] Trustee Luckham: with respect to your thoughts there that's great because i too have uh on my list of five will

[0:46:44] Trustee Luckham: definitely be First Nations leadership and maybe exclusively First Nations leadership if I think

[0:46:48] Trustee Luckham: about it. But I think that the object of the inquiry is to have a conversation with people

[0:46:59] Trustee Luckham: that have something of a relationship and probably a long-term relationship that have some

[0:47:07] Trustee Luckham: understanding of how we govern and what we do and how it's influenced them in the areas that

[0:47:14] Trustee Luckham: that they work that are parallel

[0:47:17] Trustee Luckham: or working together with the Honest Trust

[0:47:22] Trustee Luckham: to get some understanding.

[0:47:24] Trustee Luckham: So yeah, I'm not sure what, and I've said it,

[0:47:26] Trustee Luckham: that I'm not sure what public opinion has to do with that

[0:47:28] Trustee Luckham: because I think that what we're looking for

[0:47:30] Trustee Luckham: is a professional assessment of the consultants

[0:47:33] Trustee Luckham: on the organization more than public opinion.

[0:47:36] Trustee Luckham: But there is some resistance

[0:47:38] Trustee Luckham: to me characterizing it that way.

[0:47:39] Trustee Luckham: And that's fine.

[0:47:40] Trustee Luckham: I respect all the opinions around the table.

[0:47:44] Trustee Luckham: Okay, let's see if there's anything else

[0:47:48] Trustee Luckham: that we want to speak about,

[0:47:49] Trustee Luckham: but Trustee Rogers and then back to Bill and Faust.

[0:47:53] Trustee Rogers: Yeah, I just want to say, I agree with you, Chair Locke,

[0:47:57] Trustee Rogers: on that, you know, this is work that Trust Council

[0:48:00] Trustee Rogers: has had done and the work is proceeding.

[0:48:02] Trustee Rogers: And I, you know, I'm hopeful that the,

[0:48:07] Trustee Rogers: and somewhat confident that the work of the professionals

[0:48:11] Trustee Rogers: professionals will lead to meaningful recommendations. I just want to point out the

[0:48:16] Trustee Rogers: irony, anybody watching can see this, that if the EC was in control of a process like this,

[0:48:22] Trustee Rogers: and we restricted the recommendations for outside sources to simply the four of our recommendations,

[0:48:30] Trustee Rogers: that would be the cause of a great deal of rightful concern. And so, and that's just

[0:48:40] Trustee Rogers: Just sort of a bit of the ironic.

[0:48:43] Trustee Rogers: And so I'm very hopeful that the consultants will understand that.

[0:48:48] Trustee Rogers: And when I speak to them, I will be suggesting some people that they could talk to in addition.

[0:48:53] Trustee Rogers: And there seemed to be some recognition among some of the group.

[0:48:56] Trustee Rogers: But it's just such a limited number that it's very challenging to try and figure out who it is they should talk to.

[0:49:04] Trustee Rogers: For example, I was talking to the former chair, Kim Benson, who was the chair up until about eight years ago or 10 years ago or 12 years ago.

[0:49:15] Trustee Rogers: And that was someone that I might recommend to them they talk to so they can get some historical perspective.

[0:49:21] Trustee Rogers: But anyway, I'm finished talking about this story.

[0:49:25] Trustee Rogers: It takes a long time.

[0:49:27] Trustee Rogers: Thanks, Dan.

[0:49:28] Trustee Luckham: And Russ, did you want to chime in there?

[0:49:31] Trustee Luckham: And then I'll go to Sue Elmfield.

[0:49:32] Voice 7: Just briefly, yeah.

[0:49:33] Voice 7: Yeah, no, the committee is showing, I don't know if extreme is the right word, but significant

[0:49:37] Voice 7: deference to the consultants around these pieces.

[0:49:43] Voice 7: And the consultants have said, no, they want criteria provided.

[0:49:49] Voice 7: And there's no interest in just because I know somebody or, you know, sort of a tangential

[0:49:56] Voice 7: relationship with the trust.

[0:49:57] Voice 7: They want functional recommendations.

[0:50:00] Voice 7: recommendations. And I've had a couple conversations just sort of on a staff-to-staffish

[0:50:04] Voice 7: basis that whoever they choose, they want to have some rigor behind that choice and to get as much

[0:50:12] Voice 7: out of that interview as they can.

[0:50:17] Trustee Luckham: Excellent. Thank you. Sue Ellen Fast?

[0:50:19] Trustee Fast: Just that another one of those criteria might be geographic so that all of the data isn't coming

[0:50:26] Trustee Fast: just from um uh one area of the trust and that's uh just what i'm going to say thank you okay

[0:50:40] Trustee Luckham: any other questions for the ceo today on his report all right then um thank you ceo hudson

[0:50:48] Trustee Luckham: pillar for your report and your support and uh all the rest of that um yeah so now i'm gonna go

[0:50:57] Trustee Luckham: So to Director of Administrative Services, Julia Mobs, I see you on the line there. Nice to see you. Your director's report and your follow-up action list.

[0:51:10] Voice 1: Thanks, Mr. Chair. Good morning, Executive Committee. It's been a while since I've seen you in this format, I think. Nice to see you again.

[0:51:19] Voice 1: touching on the items on the follow-up action list item number one is policy review this has

[0:51:25] Voice 1: been on the list for a while now it's something that I haven't yet gotten to it's in relation to

[0:51:30] Voice 1: our budget control and adjustment authority policy so my plan is to tackle that at the start

[0:51:35] Voice 1: of the budget cycle this year which is coming up pretty quick so no progress on that yet but it

[0:51:40] Voice 1: will be addressed as we begin budget cycle review of the sponsorship policy the application

[0:51:45] Voice 1: sponsorship policy. That's some work that Director Marler and I will work on together.

[0:51:49] Voice 1: My piece will mainly be around the funding mechanisms which are already in place. So my

[0:51:53] Voice 1: piece there should be fairly straightforward. And lastly, executive committee had discussed

[0:51:58] Voice 1: the health and wellness benefits for trustees at a previous meeting and talked about the

[0:52:02] Voice 1: employee and family assistance program. So I'm happy to report that has actually been added to

[0:52:08] Voice 1: trustees benefit plan for existing trustees right now. I still need to circulate an email on that

[0:52:13] Voice 1: up front. And I am still looking into what it looks like for us to add that to the next term

[0:52:19] Voice 1: of trustees. So that's it on the follow-up action list for me. I'll take questions. Otherwise,

[0:52:25] Voice 1: I'll just give you a very brief director's report.

[0:52:30] Trustee Luckham: Any questions on the follow-up action list?

[0:52:33] Trustee Luckham: Nope. Go ahead.

[0:52:35] Voice 1: Okay. So I'll keep it short and sweet. As you know, I was away on vacation,

[0:52:38] Voice 1: which was excellent. I spent the heat wave up in the Okanagan. So it was an extra hot

[0:52:43] Voice 1: heat wave for me, although I was in accommodation with air conditioning and a pool, so I was doing

[0:52:49] Voice 1: just fine. So when I returned the first week back, we jumped right into the Islands Trust

[0:52:54] Voice 1: Conservancy financial statement audit. So that audit was also delayed this year, as well as the

[0:52:59] Voice 1: Islands Trust audit. So that audit's going really well. There's a couple of outstanding items that

[0:53:04] Voice 1: the auditors need. Kate Emmings, manager of the Conservancy, is away on vacation, so we are

[0:53:10] Voice 1: are waiting on a couple of those things. The Conservancy Board meeting to review those

[0:53:14] Voice 1: statements is scheduled for August 24, I believe. So we'll get the approval from them and then

[0:53:20] Voice 1: squeak it into the annual report just in time for those deadlines. The Islands Trust Audit

[0:53:25] Voice 1: is substantially complete. There's one report we're rating on from PSA. And at that point,

[0:53:31] Voice 1: the audit will be wrapped up. And then I can look to scheduling an audit committee meeting

[0:53:35] Voice 1: to get those financial statements looked at and then we'll do an RWM with trust council to get

[0:53:40] Voice 1: them approved and then get those into the annual report as well. So that's been a focus for me as

[0:53:45] Voice 1: well as assisting Russ and the rest of the management team looking forward to our flexible

[0:53:51] Voice 1: work options with staff as post-pandemic and Russ already mentioned that there's some good

[0:53:57] Voice 1: guidelines in place from PSA so we'll be piggybacking off of those. It'll be you know a

[0:54:02] Voice 1: a big administrative task to get all of the staff agreements in place but i think it's going to be

[0:54:07] Voice 1: really beneficial for us um so i won't give you any further update there's nothing of major concern

[0:54:14] Voice 1: that i think i need to update you on but i will happily take questions any

[0:54:19] Trustee Luckham: questions for the

[0:54:19] Trustee Luckham: director no you got off easy today thank you julia um thank you for joining us today and appreciate

[0:54:26] Trustee Luckham: all the work you do and glad to have you back in the office so let us now go to director local

[0:54:35] Trustee Luckham: planning services next and perhaps when you've completed your report David I'll

[0:54:43] Trustee Luckham: ask you to segue into the bylaw enforcement piece while you have the

[0:54:48] Trustee Luckham: floor. So

[0:54:49] Voice 2: over to you

[0:54:50] Trustee Luckham: sir for your follow-up action list and director's report.

[0:54:54] Voice 2: Okay well thank you very much and the follow-up action list, the first item there

[0:55:02] Voice 2: I've repeatedly said this one to you.

[0:55:04] Voice 2: I'll be going to the regional planning committee

[0:55:07] Voice 2: with some recommendations for policy

[0:55:10] Voice 2: and then reporting back to executive after that.

[0:55:13] Voice 2: So that work is underway.

[0:55:16] Voice 2: The director of administrative services updated you

[0:55:19] Voice 2: on item two on the top action list

[0:55:22] Voice 2: and then items three and four,

[0:55:24] Voice 2: which are also repeated under the manager

[0:55:28] Voice 2: of Compliance and Ballot Enforcement.

[0:55:31] Voice 2: Those will come to you at the next meeting.

[0:55:35] Voice 2: So the manager is working on those two items

[0:55:38] Voice 2: and we'll have them on the August 4th agenda for you.

[0:55:43] Voice 2: So that's it for the Flap Action List.

[0:55:46] Voice 2: And I do have a short report,

[0:55:47] Voice 2: but if there's any questions on the Flap Action List first.

[0:55:50] Voice 8: Any questions?

[0:55:52] Voice 8: No, go ahead, David.

[0:55:54] Voice 2: Okay, thank you.

[0:55:56] Voice 2: So I just wanted to keep you updated on the administrative staff, as the CAO said.

[0:56:03] Voice 2: One of our staff has taken a temporary assignment, that's Maple, in the Victoria office.

[0:56:10] Voice 2: So we have a temp who will be working with us on, not full time, but over the next four

[0:56:18] Voice 2: weeks or so, and we're hoping to fill that position from an eligibility list that was

[0:56:23] Voice 2: created from a previous competition. So if that works out that's great, if not then we'll have

[0:56:30] Voice 2: to run a competition which could take some time. And we're just in the process on Saltspring of

[0:56:37] Voice 2: recruiting through open competition for a vacancy there. So we have two vacancies in administrative

[0:56:47] Voice 2: services for the local planning. So we are short staffed so we're just going to have to work as

[0:56:55] Voice 2: best we can to support the administrative staff there. We have hired a new bylaw officer for

[0:57:02] Voice 2: bylaw enforcement and that person, his name is David, will be working in the Victoria office

[0:57:09] Voice 2: and he's undergoing orientation which takes some time but he will then help to reduce the pressure

[0:57:16] Voice 2: on a specialist salt spring violent enforcement officer

[0:57:19] Voice 2: by taking on some of the work there

[0:57:22] Voice 2: as well as in the Southern Gulf Islands.

[0:57:26] Voice 2: We were talking earlier about archaeological sites

[0:57:30] Voice 2: and heritage sites.

[0:57:31] Voice 2: So we did have a meeting with Jeff Sheldrake,

[0:57:35] Voice 2: who is the Executive Director at Regional Operations

[0:57:37] Voice 2: for Flynnrow.

[0:57:39] Voice 2: On Monday, it was myself and Lisa.

[0:57:42] Voice 2: And we focused this time on the heritage conservation mapping project and what we're doing there and how that relates to the role of the archaeology branch.

[0:57:56] Voice 2: And we did talk about chance findings as part of this.

[0:58:01] Voice 2: And, you know, so we are working. He's a really good resource for us.

[0:58:08] Voice 2: you know we started these meetings out to talk about current land protocols that we have but

[0:58:15] Voice 2: it's kind of morphing into something more than that where it's regular meetings myself and

[0:58:22] Voice 2: the director of administrative services is usually there too and we talk about pretty

[0:58:27] Voice 2: well anything that relates to the province and ourselves especially around current lands

[0:58:32] Voice 2: and foreshore or uplands, and in this case, First Nations.

[0:58:37] Voice 2: So I'll keep you updated on how those go.

[0:58:40] Voice 2: Just on the chance finds,

[0:58:42] Voice 2: our new planning technician came to us and said,

[0:58:47] Voice 2: you know, what our previous practice was

[0:58:49] Voice 2: when we know of an archeological site close by,

[0:58:53] Voice 2: we would provide information to the,

[0:58:56] Voice 2: so when we get a building permit referral,

[0:58:58] Voice 2: we would send, we let that applicant know

[0:59:02] Voice 2: that there's an archaeological site close by, provide information on that and who to contact

[0:59:06] Voice 2: at the archaeology branch. But also we've got documentation on chance finds, so what do you do

[0:59:12] Voice 2: if you find something when you're doing construction. So what we're going to do now

[0:59:20] Voice 2: is provide that information on chance finds to everybody. So every time we're getting a

[0:59:26] Voice 2: a building permit request coming in, a referral,

[0:59:29] Voice 2: we'll provide that information because the chance finds

[0:59:33] Voice 2: are not necessarily close to a non-archeological site.

[0:59:36] Voice 2: It could be in other areas.

[0:59:37] Voice 2: So we're just trying to do a little bit more to help

[0:59:40] Voice 2: and see if we can reduce the impacts

[0:59:44] Voice 2: on First Nations cultural sites.

[0:59:49] Voice 2: Two more items and then I'm done.

[0:59:51] Voice 2: The next one, we talked earlier about electronic meetings

[0:59:55] Voice 2: and going back into regular meetings.

[1:00:00] Voice 2: so the planners now can travel normally so they can go to the islands to do site visits to do

[1:00:06] Voice 2: LTC meetings to meet with APCs if they need to and to have office hours so this is like pre-pandemic

[1:00:14] Voice 2: so I just want to let you know that there's no restrictions on the planners travel anymore

[1:00:21] Voice 2: so that means local trust meetings can obviously have in-person meetings as pre-pandemic just want

[1:00:27] Voice 2: to comment that the legislation uh bill 10 and the changes to our act uh sorry our regulation

[1:00:34] Voice 2: around electronic meetings is to do with the trustees um meeting electronically so not being

[1:00:41] Voice 2: there in person the issue around broadcasting and around having the public and staff join

[1:00:49] Voice 2: electronically that's purely a policy uh issue for trust council and whether or not we can resource

[1:00:55] Voice 2: always that so i just wanted to make sure that there's an understanding it's two separate things

[1:00:59] Voice 2: we don't need the provincial legislation to hold electronic meetings where the trustees are in

[1:01:06] Voice 2: person and the staff and public are joining electronically for example um yeah so that's

[1:01:15] Voice 2: all i have um just wanted to provide that update so if there's any questions otherwise i'm done

[1:01:21] Voice 2: you

[1:01:21] Trustee Rogers: say that last sentence again please just so i make sure i'm absolutely clear you said

[1:01:25] Trustee Rogers: just so i understand completely what you're saying yeah

[1:01:29] Voice 2: that the electronic meetings

[1:01:30] Voice 2: legislation is about the trustees meeting electronically that is a you know it allows

[1:01:38] Voice 2: you as a trustee to come into a meeting like this electronic means so that's what the legislation

[1:01:45] Voice 2: does the public joining a meeting electronically or the pub or the staff joining meeting

[1:01:52] Voice 2: meeting electronically. That's purely a policy issue for Trust Council to consider because it

[1:01:58] Voice 2: becomes a resourcing. All we have to do under the legislation is have an open meeting which means

[1:02:05] Voice 2: if you're in person the public can be there to hear you or if you're electronic that the public

[1:02:11] Voice 2: have a place to go to to hear you. So if we want to offer the public something more than just coming

[1:02:18] Voice 2: into the meeting room i.e. we're going to broadcast it or we're going to have a portal that you can

[1:02:25] Voice 2: call into and interact with you that's purely policy that's not there's no legislative requirement

[1:02:31] Voice 2: or anything in the legislation that would prevent us from doing that okay does that make sense

[1:02:38] Voice 2: okay thanks okay any other

[1:02:44] Trustee Luckham: questions for the director dan rogers to

[1:02:51] Trustee Rogers: be my morning to speak

[1:02:52] Trustee Rogers: Thank you for the report about finance fines and your discussions with the province about that.

[1:03:01] Trustee Rogers: I don't know that we've ever come to a conclusion about a question I asked a number of months ago

[1:03:08] Trustee Rogers: about building permit referrals issues, where we're not the deciding body.

[1:03:15] Trustee Rogers: We're a referral agency as opposed to the application agency.

[1:03:20] Trustee Rogers: and we're aware of a about what steps we might take to sort of enhance the protection

[1:03:28] Trustee Rogers: um if we're if we're actually aware of a archaeological site on a particular property

[1:03:35] Trustee Rogers: because my understanding is right now that's simply flagged for the landowner

[1:03:40] Trustee Rogers: etc as opposed to for anybody else and um i wondered if you had any more thoughts about

[1:03:47] Trustee Rogers: that after your conversation about whether we should be flagging it for another agency that

[1:03:53] Trustee Rogers: this is occurring like the whoever the building permit um agency is or or even the provincial

[1:04:01] Trustee Rogers: ministry that this is being proposed or something i don't know the answer it's just i i as i as you

[1:04:07] Trustee Rogers: know i had a scenario like that in my local trust area that i was i i know there was that we knew

[1:04:14] Trustee Rogers: We knew there was an archaeological or a cultural site there.

[1:04:21] Trustee Rogers: And it was simply exactly what you talked about.

[1:04:24] Trustee Rogers: You gave the information, said this is what you have to do.

[1:04:27] Trustee Rogers: But that was the extent of our actions.

[1:04:29] Trustee Rogers: And that would have been historically what we did.

[1:04:32] Trustee Rogers: Anyway, do you have any more thoughts about that after your conversation?

[1:04:36] Voice 2: Yeah, it's evolving.

[1:04:38] Voice 2: It's something that we're constantly trying to see what we can do.

[1:04:42] Voice 2: With respect to building permit referrals, because they're not our referrals, they're the regional districts, we're trying to provide the information to the building officer, the regional district building inspector, as well as the landowner.

[1:04:59] Voice 2: And in the CRD, so that's all the Southern Islands and Salt Spring, the CRD is requiring that the landowner come to us first to get confirmation for zoning before going to the regional district to get the building permit.

[1:05:14] Voice 2: So when we see them at that level, they actually haven't started anything. So in some ways it's probably premature for us to notify another agency.

[1:05:24] Voice 2: you know so we're providing information and the building inspector is then aware

[1:05:29] Voice 2: that there could be some issues here and so is the landowner and i'm not sure how much further

[1:05:35] Voice 2: we should or could go with respect to that i mean we can look at that for the other uh regional

[1:05:42] Voice 2: districts they're sending them to us as a referral so they already have the building permit and then

[1:05:48] Voice 2: we're responding to that and we're doing the same thing we're providing that information to the land

[1:05:53] Voice 2: owner into the building inspector um yeah i have to think a little bit about you know would it be

[1:06:02] Voice 2: beneficial to let the archaeological uh branch know they don't deal necessarily with chance

[1:06:08] Voice 2: fines either it's um you know they're looking at sites that are um registered and they're issuing

[1:06:17] Voice 2: permits around that so you know the information we're providing the landowner i think is as good

[1:06:22] Voice 2: as we have but we can continue that discussion and we are continuing that discussion with

[1:06:28] Voice 2: our senior to governmental policy advisor as well as the provincial agencies and in the longer term

[1:06:35] Voice 2: we're hoping that the heritage conservation mapping and hopefully subsequent heritage

[1:06:42] Voice 2: conservation permit areas will put a requirement in for permits that will prevent all of this from

[1:06:50] Voice 2: happening in the first place okay

[1:06:58] Trustee Luckham: thank you um i'm i have my own remark here on the chat thank you

[1:07:04] Trustee Luckham: for reminding me about chance fines um i guess you know one of the challenges here is uh navigating

[1:07:12] Trustee Luckham: our new website um i thought we had our own document associated with a summary of chance

[1:07:20] Trustee Luckham: fines um i've just done a search now and the only one i can find is one from the provincial

[1:07:24] Trustee Luckham: government and you have to search for it in documents it's not visible um and on thetis

[1:07:32] Trustee Luckham: we made the chance find document a visible item on our web page so that when you went there

[1:07:40] Trustee Luckham: if you were looking at anything to do with bylaws or zoning or whatever you you'd stumble across

[1:07:48] Trustee Luckham: this chance find thing it seems to me that that would be something helpful if that was more readily

[1:07:53] Trustee Luckham: visible on our resources page because we certainly talk about forestry conservation that prominent so

[1:08:00] Trustee Luckham: just there's a thought and in the in respect of time I'm just going to say that and thank you for

[1:08:06] Trustee Luckham: that um did you have uh any further reporting you want to go on to bylaw enforcement I'm good and

[1:08:15] Voice 2: actually I've covered the bylaw enforcement I don't really have anything additional to add

[1:08:20] Voice 2: on that so unless there's any questions i'm i'm i'm done okay

[1:08:27] Trustee Luckham: thank you david so then uh now i'm

[1:08:29] Trustee Luckham: going to go to um trust area services i don't see uh claire on the line here ceo hudson are you

[1:08:39] Trustee Luckham: gonna yeah

[1:08:42] Voice 7: um claire is yeah claire's away for a couple of weeks and um david substantially and

[1:08:48] Voice 7: myself are covering over her responsibility areas where her and our that function of the

[1:08:56] Voice 7: trust is primarily focused right now on getting out of the special committee meeting outcomes

[1:09:01] Voice 7: and into the engagement process moving forward and I know that the rest of the team and trust

[1:09:08] Voice 7: area services has been substantially working towards the initiation of the referral process

[1:09:13] Voice 7: that's going to come later on this week as we go out to various ministries otherwise we'd respond

[1:09:20] Voice 7: to any questions if there's something of concern or you want to draw something to our attention

[1:09:26] Voice 7: there's no question that the laundry list here under trust area services is not fully resourced

[1:09:32] Voice 7: but if you want to haul something out and say this has to go right now then we'll certainly do it

[1:09:38] Voice 7: we're getting lots of website feedback you know the policy statement process is drawing

[1:09:44] Voice 7: attention to the website so i think ultimately that's good so and those are being recorded

[1:09:49] Voice 7: for future any future amendments as we move out of the beta and into you know our full delivery

[1:09:54] Voice 7: of the system but other than that i'll we'd respond to questions fantastic

[1:10:04] Voice 4: thank you very much

[1:10:05] Voice 4: i think

[1:10:13] Voice 2: peter might be frozen are you there peter oh he's we've lost him yeah

[1:10:22] Trustee Rogers: bread time yeah should we take a very short break and see if we can get peter back

[1:10:28] Trustee Rogers: why don't we just do five minutes and okay and uh get our coffee and come back at

[1:10:36] Trustee Fast: 10 15 10 15

[1:10:38] Trustee Rogers: everybody

[1:10:39] Voice 4: sorry

[1:11:17] Trustee Luckham: i lost my connection are you still there we've

[1:11:19] Voice 11: just decided to take a break

[1:11:21] Voice 11: and reconvene at 10 15 i'm putting up a sign thank

[1:11:26] Trustee Luckham: you good decision and uh marie uh wellman

[1:11:31] Trustee Luckham: mary um apologies for our um being a little late here on our agenda lots going on um but we'll come

[1:11:40] Trustee Luckham: to you after the break hi

[1:11:45] Voice 2: peter everybody just took a break uh like give you an opportunity to

[1:11:48] Voice 2: come back yeah

[1:11:50] Trustee Luckham: i got that from lori thanks okay good all

[1:11:52] Trustee Luckham: right okay everybody uh returning here

[1:15:26] Trustee Luckham: sorry about that you know i live uh 20 minutes by float plane from the largest

[1:15:40] Trustee Luckham: urban center in the province and have almost non-existent internet

[1:15:51] Trustee Rogers: chair i live i live 12 kilometers as the crow flies from the biggest

[1:15:59] Trustee Rogers: from the same municipality and so does Trustee Fast.

[1:16:06] Trustee Rogers: And we often have non-existent internet, so.

[1:16:13] Trustee Luckham: So it's all a myth, rolling it out to the province.

[1:16:17] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so, you know, we invited Marie Wellman

[1:16:22] Trustee Luckham: to join us as a delegation at 10 o'clock today.

[1:16:26] Trustee Luckham: so with the vice chair's permission I would like to provide that opportunity to Marie to speak

[1:16:33] Trustee Luckham: with us and I hope I've got your name spelled or pronounced correctly and please correct me if I'm

[1:16:39] Trustee Luckham: wrong so if that's okay I don't see any objections so Marie Wellman thank you very much for joining

[1:16:46] Trustee Luckham: us and I've appreciated the materials that you sent to us in advance and read them and gone to

[1:16:52] Trustee Luckham: the website to review that information and thank you. So this is not directed at you but just

[1:16:59] Trustee Luckham: generally we are committed to making this a respectful environment for safe discussion

[1:17:07] Trustee Luckham: and conversation and that everybody be treated fairly and that we always would of course use

[1:17:13] Trustee Luckham: respectful language and with no form of discrimination is acceptable or tolerated.

[1:17:20] Trustee Luckham: so I'm not going to drill down into that any deeper at this moment but please the floor is

[1:17:27] Trustee Luckham: yours and I think we suggested you would have 10 minutes so you can go ahead.

[1:17:32] Voice 12: Thank you very much

[1:17:33] Voice 12: for your time today I wanted to check with everyone to see if it is the best use of your

[1:17:38] Voice 12: time for me to run through my speaking notes and the presentation given that you were all

[1:17:43] Voice 12: provided with it ahead of time or whether the 10 minutes would be better used for questions your

[1:17:48] Voice 12: choice um

[1:17:50] Trustee Luckham: well sure thank you for that um perhaps you might like to just uh summarize um your uh

[1:17:56] Trustee Luckham: thoughts on that and uh and then perhaps it might be questions might be a better use but

[1:18:01] Trustee Luckham: um you

[1:18:02] Trustee Luckham: go ahead that's your uh 10 minutes and certainly there may very well be questions

[1:18:07] Voice 12: okay

[1:18:08] Voice 12: um so um lori if you could flip it uh to the um second slide thank you thank you um

[1:18:19] Voice 12: One of the things that I've done in my career working in as a professional communicator

[1:18:23] Voice 12: and engagement specialist with local government is help to bring some rigor to engagement.

[1:18:30] Voice 12: And it's something that municipalities and other organizations are coming to fairly recently.

[1:18:37] Voice 12: There is by no means is the Islands Trust sort of in the dark ages around this.

[1:18:42] Voice 12: Everybody's kind of coming to this conclusion now.

[1:18:46] Voice 12: And it's partly around the advent of social media and the declination of traditional media that a framework becomes really important because policy is your friend. We all know this. And building consistency in your approach builds trust with the public.

[1:19:06] Voice 12: if your tactics um are unpredictable and there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason as to

[1:19:14] Voice 12: how you engage each time it doesn't help build public trust in the process and the conversation

[1:19:21] Voice 12: is going on with or without you um external to your process so i always i always advise that

[1:19:30] Voice 12: that, you know, consistency and approach, consistency and language, and some predictability

[1:19:35] Voice 12: in what kinds of tactics you use for different kinds of engagements will really take you a long

[1:19:40] Voice 12: way. Trust becomes really, really important in these processes. Laurie, we can go to the next

[1:19:47] Voice 12: one now. Thank you. So there is this spectrum and in the appendix, you'll see the text filled in

[1:19:54] Voice 12: underneath each of these columns, but I didn't want to sort of confront you with a giant text

[1:19:59] Voice 12: slide while i was talking so what i've done is i've filled in the two columns here that are

[1:20:03] Voice 12: where i think your engagement has landed so far mostly listen and learn and some consult

[1:20:09] Voice 12: but what we've seen is that you you didn't get a lot of feedback through those channels

[1:20:17] Voice 12: partly because of covid and partly because of the tools that were used and now we're in a situation

[1:20:23] Voice 12: situation where we actually need to up the ante in order to get the kind of engagement you as

[1:20:28] Voice 12: elected officials need to feel as though you have a mandate to move forward. We can go to the next

[1:20:34] Voice 12: slide now. So really, at this point, you've decided you're going to engage further, but you really

[1:20:42] Voice 12: need to have a conversation amongst yourselves about what it is you need to get out of this

[1:20:46] Voice 12: level of this next phase of engagement, where you as a council will feel like, okay, we got it this

[1:20:53] Voice 12: this time, we've got the information we need from the public, we know where they stand on these

[1:20:57] Voice 12: various issues. And we now feel comfortable that going forward, it is going to be, you know, sort

[1:21:03] Voice 12: of widely accepted. And that that's where planning your engagement starts to come in, it becomes very

[1:21:10] Voice 12: strategic. And I don't mean that in a negative way. I mean, strategic in the sense that you've

[1:21:14] Voice 12: got to think big picture first, and then drill down to tactics. And one of the really common

[1:21:19] Voice 12: common mistakes that gets made everywhere is that tactics come before strategy. If the tactics don't

[1:21:26] Voice 12: match the needs of the people that you're trying to engage with, there will be this ship's passing

[1:21:32] Voice 12: in the night effect and you won't get that input that you need to have a mandate. So we can go on

[1:21:40] Voice 12: to the next slide now, Lori. Thank you. So I'm suggesting that you move up the spectrum to the

[1:21:45] Voice 12: the collaborate level, which, and I'm suggesting a deliberative dialogue. I've seen it work.

[1:21:50] Voice 12: It's an amazing process. It does take a lot more work and it does cost more. But I think now,

[1:21:58] Voice 12: especially with something like a policy statement, we're in a position where we really

[1:22:03] Voice 12: need to make sure that what goes forward has been bought into by the public and by the elected

[1:22:10] Voice 12: officials. And I think the only way you're going to do that is to have this deep conversation

[1:22:14] Voice 12: amongst the public who all have different interests have them hear from each other

[1:22:20] Voice 12: have them challenge each other on views have them come to some sort of agreement on what the

[1:22:27] Voice 12: priorities should be um and then you've got buy-in from from everyone who participated

[1:22:33] Voice 12: and the larger public because the people who participated represent the larger public

[1:22:38] Voice 12: public. Okay, and we can go on to the next one now. Just flip through to the full spectrum.

[1:22:46] Voice 12: There we go. So if you if you want to have a look at this in detail, what it does is it provides you

[1:22:53] Voice 12: with all of the levels of engagement from informed to empower. And it describes the promise that

[1:22:59] Voice 12: you're making to the public with each of those levels. So part of your setting your goals and

[1:23:06] Voice 12: and your objectives is,

[1:23:07] Voice 12: what promise do we need to make at this point

[1:23:09] Voice 12: to have the public come along for the ride

[1:23:11] Voice 12: in this engagement process,

[1:23:13] Voice 12: participate in it wholeheartedly and, you know,

[1:23:17] Voice 12: have everybody listen to each other

[1:23:20] Voice 12: and give what they need to give

[1:23:21] Voice 12: in order for you guys to get your mandate out of it.

[1:23:26] Voice 12: And Chair Luckom, as I said, you know,

[1:23:27] Voice 12: there is that video link

[1:23:29] Voice 12: if you don't wanna read all the texts

[1:23:31] Voice 12: and you really would rather just see something visual

[1:23:33] Voice 12: that will explain the process.

[1:23:34] Voice 12: we shot a video at the Deep Cove Dialogue that involves some of the participants.

[1:23:40] Voice 12: I'll just say again, great process, really brings people along in the engagement and results in a

[1:23:49] Voice 12: consensual mandate for the elected officials. And that's really the summary. If anybody has

[1:23:56] Voice 12: any questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

[1:23:57] Trustee Luckham: Well, thank you very much. And indeed,

[1:24:00] Trustee Luckham: I did also watch the video there and I'm not sure if it's necessarily obvious or that and that would

[1:24:08] Trustee Luckham: be our fault if we haven't made that obvious we have adopted the IAP2 principles as a method of

[1:24:15] Trustee Luckham: engagement and indeed we quite often do look at that graph of where it is that you want to engage

[1:24:20] Trustee Luckham: at and so certainly we can always do better and I think that's what we want to try and do through

[1:24:27] Trustee Luckham: this process, but I'm going to just go to the vice chairs and ask them if they've got any questions,

[1:24:33] Trustee Luckham: and I see Trustee Patrick and Trustee Fast.

[1:24:37] Trustee Patrick: Thank you for your presentation.

[1:24:40] Trustee Patrick: On a deliberate dialogue, which I do like, how would that, how do we go from,

[1:24:47] Trustee Patrick: like, we've got an extensive geographic area where we have islands that are, you know,

[1:24:51] Trustee Patrick: perceive themselves as being very, very, very different sometimes, but they may be,

[1:24:56] Trustee Patrick: they may not be how do we bring you know do a you know bring together deliberative dialogue

[1:25:03] Trustee Patrick: um

[1:25:05] Voice 12: they don't necessarily have to happen all in one place one of the ways you can the way

[1:25:11] Voice 12: deliberative dialogue sessions work is that you have um you advertise that you're going to do it

[1:25:17] Voice 12: you let the public know and they register to participate and you ask people when they

[1:25:25] Voice 12: register what their areas of interest are. So for some, it may be reconciliation. For some,

[1:25:31] Voice 12: it might be environmental protection. For some, it might be a housing issue. And what you do is

[1:25:40] Voice 12: you bring together people of all of those views to sit and discuss. So you could do one on each

[1:25:48] Voice 12: island, or you could combine some of the islands. And the idea is that at each table, you have

[1:25:55] Voice 12: have one of each of those interest viewpoints talking in a group. No group gets overwhelmed

[1:26:00] Voice 12: by one interest. And they, in their table, have to come up with an agreement what to send forward

[1:26:08] Voice 12: to the bigger group. It's kind of like municipalities and regional districts, you know.

[1:26:14] Voice 12: People get together on the smaller level, and then it goes up to the bigger level.

[1:26:19] Voice 12: and the whole deliberative dialogue piece will then um you know once everyone every table has

[1:26:25] Voice 12: sent in what they've agreed on then the room votes on these things and then it gets sent back

[1:26:32] Voice 12: to council so you could do individual tables on each island representing the interests on that

[1:26:37] Voice 12: island and then have um a deliberative dialogue final online to save on travel expense and that

[1:26:46] Voice 12: sort of thing okay

[1:26:49] Trustee Luckham: thank you uh sue ellen fast yeah

[1:26:52] Trustee Fast: thank you for this i i think it's uh i'm i'm

[1:26:56] Trustee Fast: always interested in these engagement uh how it's all evolving and the field is evolving and uh

[1:27:03] Trustee Fast: especially with these online tools so um thanks for that last comment that was one of my questions

[1:27:08] Trustee Fast: is how could we could we hold the final one on online or part of it online and my other question

[1:27:14] Trustee Fast: is um uh how do we manage how can we best manage or what's best practice in managing if there is

[1:27:22] Trustee Fast: one social media and the um um facebook especially in communities and and the uh uh layers of

[1:27:33] Trustee Fast: misinformation uh that are deliberately sometimes and sometimes not deliberately uh

[1:27:42] Trustee Fast: insert it um

[1:27:45] Voice 12: do you mean just in general or as part of the dialogue process

[1:27:50] Voice 12: uh i think as part of the dialogue process it would be good to get a picture so uh the way

[1:27:55] Voice 12: the dialogue process works is there's a lot of background work done before the table discussions

[1:28:00] Voice 12: ever happen um staff work with the contractor to produce a guidebook and it is the single source

[1:28:09] Voice 12: source of truth that the dialogue takes um place around um and it provides the background

[1:28:17] Voice 12: information on the issues that are to be discussed um and depending on what your deliberative dialogue

[1:28:25] Voice 12: is about like the one in deep cove was about parking and access and we worked quite a long

[1:28:29] Voice 12: time with our financial department and our engineering department to pull the kind of

[1:28:34] Voice 12: information that would be required for people to make intelligent choices about options

[1:28:39] Voice 12: some things just aren't possible and some things are just you know wildly expensive like a four

[1:28:43] Voice 12: story parking garage or you know there are ideas that come out but there has to be a way to frame

[1:28:48] Voice 12: that in reality so the guidebook provides your sort of level of basic factual information that

[1:28:56] Voice 12: everyone is working off in the dialogue process social media is always going to be the wild west

[1:29:02] Voice 12: and you're either in the pool or you're not and I realize that Islands Trust does not have

[1:29:09] Voice 12: the staff capacity to be you know in there correcting misinformation nor to bigger

[1:29:15] Voice 12: municipalities quite frankly there are always going to be spaces where the rumors run rampant

[1:29:21] Voice 12: and misinformation gets posted the best you can do is have your own account that provides the facts

[1:29:28] Voice 12: and um you know if you see something in another space that's incorrect you can put out the factual

[1:29:35] Voice 12: information but i wouldn't try to do it in the other space because it just becomes you know a

[1:29:41] Voice 12: giant hamster wheel you put it out in your own space and you point people to that and you've

[1:29:45] Voice 12: got control over that space thank

[1:29:49] Trustee Fast: you very much and i like the hamster wheel um approach or arena

[1:29:54] Trustee Fast: yes none

[1:29:55] Voice 12: of the smoking right now actually

[1:29:56] Trustee Fast: thanks

[1:29:59] Trustee Luckham: Thanks.

[1:30:00] Trustee Luckham: you very much you know clearly we don't have enough time here with your delegation to drill

[1:30:06] Trustee Luckham: too deeply in this and it would be easy and probably lovely to do so because there's lots

[1:30:11] Trustee Luckham: of complexities here and from my own perspective and maybe you can just give a brief comment

[1:30:18] Trustee Luckham: you know to do specifically with the policy statement you know there's three or four areas

[1:30:24] Trustee Luckham: where we're making some changes in a much more significant document and of course when you talk

[1:30:30] Trustee Luckham: about the um the um the sort of the i forget what the phrase was you just used there about

[1:30:37] Trustee Luckham: uh setting up what the information is the truth that you're putting out to folks um some folks

[1:30:44] Trustee Luckham: are not actually happy with the policy statement in its original form or the trust period and

[1:30:51] Trustee Luckham: That's a difficult thing for us to actually open up when we actually all we want to do is make three or four amendments to the existing document that reflect the current times.

[1:31:04] Trustee Luckham: And so it's not a singular issue, which we've used that dialogue approach on Salt Spring in the past with respect to the boardwalk and other things with council even in other locations.

[1:31:24] Trustee Luckham: seems easier on the smaller scale items compared to this much larger item of which those three or

[1:31:32] Trustee Luckham: four items are not small in terms of dialogue with our community um and maybe i'll just give

[1:31:38] Trustee Luckham: you a minute just to say do you have any remarks about the scale of this work yeah

[1:31:45] Voice 12: i mean it's it

[1:31:46] Voice 12: it can be scaled um i think it's unfortunate that you're going through a governance review at the

[1:31:51] Voice 12: the same time that you're doing the policy statement review i think that has confused

[1:31:56] Voice 12: people willingly and unwillingly um and so there's a little bit of work to be done to

[1:32:02] Voice 12: separate that out i think in the public's mind um i don't i don't think the policy statement

[1:32:08] Voice 12: is too complicated i think um there's a way to do the deliberative dialogue where you set up

[1:32:14] Voice 12: the boundaries around what is being discussed what's on the table and what's not on the table

[1:32:19] Voice 12: because any deliberative dialogue

[1:32:21] Voice 12: can become completely unwieldy

[1:32:22] Voice 12: if it's not very strongly facilitated.

[1:32:27] Trustee Luckham: Okay, well, thank you.

[1:32:28] Trustee Luckham: I really appreciate you coming to us today

[1:32:31] Trustee Luckham: and drawing our attention to this.

[1:32:33] Trustee Luckham: We're going to have a discussion later

[1:32:34] Trustee Luckham: about the next steps here

[1:32:36] Trustee Luckham: and perhaps you'll be able to stay around for that.

[1:32:39] Trustee Luckham: And I see Dan Rogers has put up his hand.

[1:32:42] Trustee Luckham: So do you want to have,

[1:32:43] Trustee Luckham: do you have a question there, Dan?

[1:32:45] Trustee Rogers: Yes, sorry, I was using the electronic hands

[1:32:47] Trustee Rogers: and perhaps I shouldn't so I had

[1:32:49] Trustee Rogers: it up for a while. Thank you for your presentation. I appreciate that

[1:32:53] Trustee Rogers: and I gather you're aware of what the process we've engaged in up until now has been.

[1:33:00] Trustee Rogers: I was struck by something that you said which was people who we engage with will represent

[1:33:09] Trustee Rogers: the public at large.

[1:33:14] Trustee Rogers: And frankly, I think that there was a view that the 11 to 1400 people who we engaged

[1:33:22] Trustee Rogers: with around the first time would represent the public.

[1:33:24] Trustee Rogers: And we've been told resoundingly that that wasn't the case, that there are a number of

[1:33:30] Trustee Rogers: people who felt like their voices were not either consulted or heard on some level.

[1:33:36] Trustee Rogers: That's the sort of the feedback we've got.

[1:33:40] Trustee Rogers: I'm always curious as to, if someone had asked me 1,400 people that engaged, I would have said that seems like an awful lot, given what we see.

[1:33:51] Trustee Rogers: And we've been told that it's not nearly enough.

[1:33:56] Trustee Rogers: And I don't know anymore what is considered to be a fulsome engagement.

[1:34:01] Trustee Rogers: I'm wondering if you had any views on that.

[1:34:03] Trustee Rogers: And how do we know that the people who engage with us actually represent the public?

[1:34:07] Trustee Rogers: If we set up some sort of a system that you're talking about, because you presumably can't have 10,000 people engaged in this deliberative dialogue.

[1:34:17] Trustee Rogers: So how do we know they actually represent the public in ways that we don't know right now?

[1:34:24] Voice 12: Okay, there's two questions there, I think.

[1:34:27] Voice 12: The representation issue is how the dialogue is set up.

[1:34:32] Voice 12: when people register to be part of the dialogue they have to say what their primary interest is

[1:34:38] Voice 12: so say somebody's primary interest is reconciliation that's the issue they feel

[1:34:44] Voice 12: most strongly about that's the issue they want to advocate for they come to the dialogue as a person

[1:34:50] Voice 12: who's going to push for reconciliation uh ideas in that document um you make sure that at each

[1:34:59] Voice 12: table you've got all of the different interests represented and and through your registration

[1:35:03] Voice 12: process you find out what the interests are the deliberative dialogue is not the only

[1:35:12] Voice 12: engagement tactic you would use it's the deepest one you've already done surveys and other things

[1:35:18] Voice 12: which i would also recommend and when it comes to surveys really um what we're all shooting for is

[1:35:26] Voice 12: about 30 participation and if we get if we get close to that then then we know we've got true

[1:35:34] Voice 12: representation of the whole group um and then depending depending on the size of your survey

[1:35:42] Voice 12: you can go for uh pollsters type of surveying where it's um a percentage of the population and

[1:35:51] Voice 12: they feel like that represents but given what's happened the last few years with that kind of

[1:35:56] Voice 12: polling, I don't know that that's actually that relevant anymore. Polling doesn't seem to be very

[1:36:00] Voice 12: accurate anymore. And the other thing you have to consider is that things get amplified along the way

[1:36:08] Voice 12: when people are yelling at each other inside social media channels. And it can seem like

[1:36:14] Voice 12: some things are really important, but it's just because a few very loud people are talking about

[1:36:18] Voice 12: it and all the quiet people haven't been heard from. So the way you make sure all the interests

[1:36:23] Voice 12: around the table is through the registration process and identifying stakeholders. And

[1:36:27] Voice 12: sometimes you have to go out and, and find those people. And especially when it comes to youth

[1:36:32] Voice 12: participating, they're not going to register for a deliberative dialogue, but you can go and find

[1:36:37] Voice 12: them. Usually schools have clubs that are interested in governance and politics. They

[1:36:43] Voice 12: have a student council, you know, you can pull those sorts of people in and, uh, and getting

[1:36:49] Voice 12: indigenous groups to participate is a different way. You have to handle that differently as well,

[1:36:54] Voice 12: but it can be done. Everyone can be around the table.

[1:36:59] Trustee Luckham: Okay, we have spent almost 20 minutes on

[1:37:02] Trustee Luckham: this and I'll

[1:37:04] Voice 5: let you go.

[1:37:04] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, thank you very much. We will be having a discussion and thank

[1:37:08] Trustee Luckham: you for planting the seeds and we'll see how your conversation goes. Okay, thank you. Thank you.

[1:37:13] Trustee Luckham: have another conversation later bye-bye thank you so uh trustees um

[1:37:21] Trustee Luckham: obviously the reporting out section is an important uh element of um what we do at our

[1:37:28] Trustee Luckham: executive committee uh meetings here and so um i'm going to return to that and i we completed the

[1:37:35] Trustee Luckham: director's reporting and now it's an opportunity for you as vice chairs to report out on what's

[1:37:41] Trustee Luckham: happening in your local trust areas and uh i'm just going to look at my screen and i see trustee

[1:37:46] Trustee Luckham: patrick trustee rogers uh oh and sue allen fast in that sequence so trustee patrick over to you

[1:37:54] Trustee Patrick: um oh thank you i've enjoyed a bit of a break in uh in my meetings but i'm about to go into

[1:38:01] Trustee Patrick: my cycle of lots of meetings i have saturn tomorrow salt spring and north pender next

[1:38:07] Trustee Patrick: week and Thetis the following week. Somehow after all of my work of trying to keep Salt Spring and

[1:38:13] Trustee Patrick: North Pender on different weeks they're together for the rest of the year and I don't know how I

[1:38:18] Trustee Patrick: failed at that happening because those two together in one week are exhausting.

[1:38:28] Trustee Patrick: No I'm not sure there's a lot going on at the various committees firing up for

[1:38:39] Trustee Patrick: community information meeting um probably one of the most important that i think you'll all

[1:38:45] Trustee Patrick: want to be following is on north pender it's being scheduled in september it's going to be

[1:38:50] Trustee Patrick: the first community meeting with um williams water recharge and budgeting work and mapping

[1:38:57] Trustee Patrick: that he's done bringing that out into a community setting so i think i'll make sure you're aware of

[1:39:04] Trustee Patrick: the date and the time for when that's set because i think it's important to watch and learn as we

[1:39:09] Trustee Patrick: bring that into our other um our other communities um and i know we um helped uh swipa helped find

[1:39:19] Trustee Patrick: some volunteers to to be a test audience for william as well so that they're all prepared and

[1:39:25] Trustee Patrick: as they go go out there so um keep an eye on that as it comes or

[1:39:30] Trustee Luckham: maybe i'll just interject uh

[1:39:32] Trustee Luckham: laura william showbar freshwater specialist for those that may not be aware

[1:39:37] Trustee Patrick: oh yes thank you

[1:39:39] Trustee Patrick: um so other than that i'm uh like i said there's lots of different things happening at all the

[1:39:43] Trustee Patrick: trust committees but um uh meeting wise we're coming up in cycle all

[1:39:51] Trustee Luckham: right thank you trustee

[1:39:53] Trustee Luckham: patrick uh i think i said dan rogers would be next thank you very much and

[1:39:58] Trustee Rogers: i just want to uh

[1:39:59] Trustee Rogers: say that we're also having i assume it's a similar thing as a special meeting on

[1:40:04] Trustee Rogers: on Galliano on September the 1st

[1:40:09] Trustee Rogers: for the fresh water project.

[1:40:12] Trustee Rogers: So I assume it's the same thing that's being rolled out

[1:40:17] Trustee Rogers: as it is for North Pender, I'm not sure.

[1:40:20] Trustee Rogers: I haven't seen the details other than it's scheduled

[1:40:22] Trustee Rogers: for a couple of hours and it's intended

[1:40:25] Trustee Rogers: as an information meeting as to where they're at

[1:40:27] Trustee Rogers: in terms of this process.

[1:40:30] Trustee Rogers: It's online.

[1:40:31] Trustee Rogers: online, we wanted to do, we talked about doing it in person

[1:40:35] Trustee Rogers: but we decided we needed to do it online

[1:40:37] Trustee Rogers: just because that's where we're at in the process.

[1:40:42] Trustee Rogers: I have had, I have, we have, as I'm sure,

[1:40:48] Trustee Rogers: we'll tell you the, we have Gambier tomorrow.

[1:40:52] Trustee Rogers: Pretty interested to see if we get anybody attending

[1:40:55] Trustee Rogers: because the Keats Island foreshore project is on our agenda

[1:40:58] Trustee Rogers: which has been a two-year project with a proposal of a DPA for the foreshore.

[1:41:05] Trustee Rogers: It should be interesting to see if we get any public engagement on that.

[1:41:10] Trustee Rogers: I mean, it's obviously the first time it's being introduced,

[1:41:12] Trustee Rogers: so it's not necessarily the time when we're going to get a lot of input.

[1:41:18] Trustee Rogers: I had Maine Island on Monday.

[1:41:22] Trustee Rogers: The local trust committee met.

[1:41:24] Trustee Rogers: A couple of things. There was some, I'll say, critical feedback on the website. Some of it's gone through to staff now. And I do think that, you know, that some of that information needs to be paid attention to. And I know it has been because I've seen two or three replies since that time.

[1:41:51] Trustee Rogers: um main the main item that came out of the main island local trust committee um was that the

[1:42:01] Trustee Rogers: trustees there had taken the the the motions from the special meeting in july uh of trust council

[1:42:09] Trustee Rogers: um uh quite the right word as i won't say seriously that's not the right word

[1:42:15] Trustee Rogers: deliberatively and have held two uh i'll call them community information sessions they aren't

[1:42:23] Trustee Rogers: really cims they're not official functions of the local trust committee but they've held two

[1:42:28] Trustee Rogers: outdoor meetings with residents one of which i understand had somewhere in the neighborhood of

[1:42:34] Trustee Rogers: 75 or 80 people the other one had approximately 30 um to discuss the trust policy statement

[1:42:42] Trustee Rogers: um and uh which was interesting they had they did they did that on their own they didn't use

[1:42:51] Trustee Rogers: staff support or anything and i think it was mainly a listening session for them and to try

[1:42:57] Trustee Rogers: to get uh and to try and get some information out to the extent that they they could and to also

[1:43:04] Trustee Rogers: hear what people had to say they they both expressed that they thought they were useful

[1:43:10] Trustee Rogers: full sessions um and so what occurred we had put the i had assumed we'd get a lot of questions at

[1:43:19] Trustee Rogers: the local trust committee related to the trust policy statement uh and indeed we got so we put

[1:43:25] Trustee Rogers: it on the agenda as a special town hall session and indeed uh not a single member of the public

[1:43:31] Trustee Rogers: participated um they were i mean they were there online um but instead what happened was the

[1:43:39] Trustee Rogers: the trustees asked me a series of questions.

[1:43:42] Trustee Rogers: I didn't realize that I was going to be speaking

[1:43:45] Trustee Rogers: on relation to the policy statements, but I did.

[1:43:48] Trustee Rogers: And I did the best I could in relation to the various questions

[1:43:54] Trustee Rogers: that I was asked in terms of what the process was going to be going forward,

[1:43:59] Trustee Rogers: how we were going to engage with the public.

[1:44:02] Trustee Rogers: I will say that I said a couple of things.

[1:44:06] Trustee Rogers: One is that in many ways, in my view, this process of making further amendments to the draft of the trust policy statement is a political process and that those should come through trustees as opposed to assuming that staff will make amendments based on public feedback.

[1:44:28] Trustee Rogers: The public feedback will be fed to trustees,

[1:44:30] Trustee Rogers: but the trustees, as I see the process

[1:44:33] Trustee Rogers: from folding from here on,

[1:44:35] Trustee Rogers: would be that it would be trustees at trust council

[1:44:37] Trustee Rogers: or whatever we decide to do,

[1:44:39] Trustee Rogers: or through committees making proposed amendments

[1:44:42] Trustee Rogers: to the trust policy statement as we go forward.

[1:44:47] Trustee Rogers: So I made that point that you should not expect staff

[1:44:52] Trustee Rogers: that just because they get 150 people that write and say,

[1:44:58] Trustee Rogers: change acts related to agriculture or whatever, that staff will do that, that that's got to come

[1:45:05] Trustee Rogers: from trustees. So that was my, what I explained as I saw the process going forward. The other thing I

[1:45:14] Trustee Rogers: addressed briefly was the fact that the First Nations engagement will continue to

[1:45:21] Trustee Rogers: to proceed on a separate, as a government-to-government conversation, and that that's the way, the

[1:45:32] Trustee Rogers: appropriate way for us to proceed, and that any other engagement that occurs out in the

[1:45:38] Trustee Rogers: community could clearly include Indigenous points of views, et cetera, et cetera, but

[1:45:44] Trustee Rogers: That our relationship is as defined by the federal and provincial and all of our policy statements and reconciliations is with the First Nations as we understand them to be on a government-to-government basis and that we will continue that process.

[1:46:06] Trustee Rogers: So that was sort of, I attempted to address their questions, but I said, we don't know what the process will look unfolding because we haven't made a decision and we haven't got an engagement as a specific engagement policy going forward yet.

[1:46:20] Trustee Rogers: there wasn't a lot but we had a few applications we engaged with the apc there was still some

[1:46:28] Trustee Rogers: discussion around the affordable housing project uh that how we moved that forward although it was

[1:46:34] Trustee Rogers: not specifically on our agenda but there was discussion about the referral to the apc which

[1:46:39] Trustee Rogers: they use quite extensively on main island they often refer like dvps and things of that to the

[1:46:45] Trustee Rogers: the APC for broader input.

[1:46:48] Trustee Rogers: So we actually referred three things to them yesterday.

[1:46:54] Trustee Rogers: So on Monday, sorry.

[1:46:56] Trustee Rogers: And they will be very clear.

[1:46:59] Trustee Rogers: They're very clear.

[1:46:59] Trustee Rogers: They want their meeting in September to be in person.

[1:47:02] Trustee Rogers: Even if we're still allowed to be,

[1:47:05] Trustee Rogers: and they're not allowed to be doing electronically

[1:47:08] Trustee Rogers: and they're not as concerned

[1:47:09] Trustee Rogers: as some other local trust committees are

[1:47:11] Trustee Rogers: to have the kind of connectivity

[1:47:14] Trustee Rogers: activity that I that we're used to at this stage they seem to think that their engagement with

[1:47:19] Trustee Rogers: their community happens in person best anyway so another difference for main island so that's my

[1:47:25] Trustee Rogers: report I have Gabriola as well there's lots of electronic engagement on both Gabriola and

[1:47:31] Trustee Rogers: Galeano right now we're getting lots of correspondence but we we won't have a Galeano

[1:47:35] Trustee Rogers: meeting till the beginning of September and we I have Gabriola next Thursday as their final meeting

[1:47:42] Trustee Rogers: and thank you very much thank

[1:47:46] Trustee Luckham: you very much dan uh trustee sue vice chair suelen fast uh

[1:47:51] Trustee Luckham: house things in your areas thank

[1:47:54] Trustee Fast: you chair i had uh hornby ltc on friday um that was a

[1:47:59] Trustee Fast: a quiet meeting in terms of some that happened uh and uh in that one um there were no uh

[1:48:10] Trustee Fast: there was only a few public speeches at the beginning of the meeting, because it had only

[1:48:26] Trustee Fast: been a couple of days before, and my internet is getting unstable, so wave at me if you can't hear

[1:48:33] Trustee Fast: hear me um i um uh anyway no nobody in the public asked about the trust policy statement and we um

[1:48:43] Trustee Fast: we did a few um ordinary kinds of pieces of business and uh our SIPA the senior intergovernmental

[1:48:52] Trustee Fast: policy advisor joined us uh in the public meeting to answer a few questions from trustees and speak

[1:48:58] Trustee Fast: speak a bit to the um situation at shingle spit and with uh komox first nation so that was that

[1:49:05] Trustee Fast: was great and um there um we're going to go to an in in-person meeting october the 8th 10 30 start

[1:49:13] Trustee Fast: uh lots of people on hornby like zoom apparently so we'll be experimenting and i expressed that i

[1:49:19] Trustee Fast: would be happy to um experiment as much as we could do while still making the meeting uh work

[1:49:27] Trustee Fast: within the rules and and within practicalities um i think that's uh all for hornbeak um

[1:49:37] Trustee Fast: gambier coming up tomorrow as dan just talked about um bowen island municipality uh we had um

[1:49:44] Trustee Fast: on monday i had my first in-person meeting for a while it was a strategic planning session

[1:49:49] Trustee Fast: about 15 of us in a big room um so that was new and uh the shape of things to come i hope and uh

[1:49:56] Trustee Fast: And we have our next, on the 26th, this is the last Bowen Island Municipality meeting until late September, because we take a break in August and then we are into UBCM and things like that.

[1:50:10] Trustee Fast: And I think that's all I wanted to say. Thank you.

[1:50:16] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much, Vice Chair Fass.

[1:50:21] Trustee Luckham: Yes. Yeah, most of my activities of late are predominantly federation-wide issues, all kinds of things.

[1:50:36] Trustee Luckham: But I'll just mention no formal LTC meetings just recently, but we did have an Ag Alliance Agricultural Advisory Planning Commission meeting on Salt Spring,

[1:50:50] Trustee Luckham: which we've been doing reasonably regularly this year and certainly we're having the opportunity

[1:50:59] Trustee Luckham: to focus on the priorities of the ag community in those meetings we're hearing lots of good stuff

[1:51:08] Trustee Luckham: and feedback about the work that is happening at the LTC with respect to bylaw development

[1:51:16] Trustee Luckham: development really wanting to turn our attention to the importance of agriculture on the island

[1:51:23] Trustee Luckham: and the message that actually keeps coming up that I think is significant is when we talk about

[1:51:31] Trustee Luckham: sustainable agriculture that sustainable agriculture doesn't actually necessarily

[1:51:38] Trustee Luckham: represent local food production and local food production is what's important to of course the

[1:51:44] Trustee Luckham: the farming community on each and all of the individual islands. And so there's some really

[1:51:48] Trustee Luckham: good messaging there. And we'll continue with these. They're very productive conversations,

[1:51:54] Trustee Luckham: which I think will help us out a lot in the future for our policy work on that island.

[1:52:05] Trustee Luckham: The other thing that's happening on Salt Spring, which has some concern, and I don't really have

[1:52:10] Trustee Luckham: anything definitive to offer except that I think it's important to know that there are some

[1:52:18] Trustee Luckham: struggles on something in many areas but specifically what I want to speak to is the

[1:52:26] Trustee Luckham: task force one in particular maybe both having some difficulty getting the Ganji Village

[1:52:34] Trustee Luckham: planning task force off on a good start. There seems to be some issues between staff and the

[1:52:45] Trustee Luckham: task force and that is being discussed amongst with myself and I think that the CEO, Hachim

[1:52:53] Trustee Luckham: Pillay, you're aware of it, but certainly I need some attention. This is really, really important

[1:52:58] Trustee Luckham: work of which a significant amount of funding has been secured from council to do this work.

[1:53:04] Trustee Luckham: and um we're we're struggling within the construct of how it is that we do things and what

[1:53:11] Trustee Luckham: expectations might be from the task force and what the expectations are from staff and and uh really

[1:53:18] Trustee Luckham: needing to work through this so there may be some help required there um but that's evolving um the

[1:53:26] Trustee Luckham: The Skeety coming up in August,

[1:53:29] Trustee Luckham: our first public meeting there actually.

[1:53:34] Trustee Luckham: That's what they've decided to do

[1:53:35] Trustee Luckham: around community information meeting regarding their OCP,

[1:53:40] Trustee Luckham: which of course is a big high-level document

[1:53:42] Trustee Luckham: important to the community.

[1:53:43] Trustee Luckham: And indeed people wanna meet in person on those things.

[1:53:47] Trustee Luckham: That's it for me, unless there's any questions,

[1:53:51] Trustee Luckham: otherwise we'll move along here

[1:53:53] Trustee Luckham: because i'm seeing it's almost 11 o'clock already okay so then let's uh just jump uh

[1:54:01] Trustee Luckham: from there to the island stress conservancy liaison update of course we didn't meet that

[1:54:06] Trustee Luckham: we met not long ago um with the executive committee and conservancy is there anything

[1:54:12] Trustee Luckham: new to offer today uh uh vice chair fast yes

[1:54:16] Trustee Fast: as the liaison i just wanted to mention two things

[1:54:20] Trustee Fast: one um for the record the date of the uh joint meeting with the executive committee and islands

[1:54:26] Trustee Fast: trust conservancy was july 13th so last week uh just for anybody who's watching and i wanted to

[1:54:31] Trustee Fast: flag that um the islands trust conservancy put out a press release about the new website and

[1:54:37] Trustee Fast: why um the islands trust conservancy didn't have its own website anymore and uh and the reasons

[1:54:43] Trustee Fast: for joining with the islands trust in theirs um it's just part of their relationship building and

[1:54:48] Trustee Fast: and keeping people in touch.

[1:54:50] Trustee Fast: And you are our partners, colleagues from afar

[1:54:54] Trustee Fast: and friends kind of info.

[1:54:57] Trustee Fast: I just thought you might like to see that.

[1:54:59] Trustee Fast: And then that's it.

[1:55:01] Trustee Luckham: Okay, super, thank you.

[1:55:04] Trustee Luckham: So at this point, then we've done our delegation.

[1:55:08] Trustee Luckham: There are no bylaws for approval today.

[1:55:11] Trustee Luckham: And this takes us to trust council meeting review

[1:55:13] Trustee Luckham: and preparation.

[1:55:14] Trustee Luckham: The first item here being roundtable discussion and the Trust Council decision highlights that's contained in here about our special meeting of July the 8th.

[1:55:28] Trustee Luckham: There is some correspondence from Trustee Johnson that is in the package that there's certainly some good information for us to consider there.

[1:55:38] Trustee Luckham: there. So I think traditionally, what we do is we have a roundtable discussion to speak about

[1:55:46] Trustee Luckham: the impressions or otherwise of the most recent council session. So I think probably I'd like to

[1:55:55] Trustee Luckham: do that. And then we'll take into consideration Trustee Johnson's feedback. And then the decision

[1:56:01] Trustee Luckham: highlights have gone out already. So that's just there mostly for information. So maybe I'll go in

[1:56:06] Trustee Luckham: in the opposite direction here and then also go over to staff as well and just start with

[1:56:11] Trustee Luckham: trustee fast rogers patrick and then we'll go to the cao and let him lead off um with the staff

[1:56:18] Trustee Luckham: end of it as he sees fit sure

[1:56:21] Trustee Fast: thank you thank you chair i am uh the town hall session on the

[1:56:26] Trustee Fast: evening of the uh seventh is that it yes um i thought you did a good intro peter i i didn't

[1:56:34] Trustee Fast: mentioned that before but um i liked that introduction uh having uh because i saw it

[1:56:42] Trustee Fast: sort of as feeling like a public hearing coming into a public hearing and it was as if we were

[1:56:47] Trustee Fast: going to pass something significant and i think that might have um holding a town hall um then

[1:56:54] Trustee Fast: we might consider for next time that it might set people up to think that we were making a

[1:56:59] Trustee Fast: significant decision or that we were on the edge uh that that it was like a public hearing

[1:57:03] Trustee Fast: it felt like that and um but I thought that it's the conversation mostly stayed very civil and I

[1:57:11] Trustee Fast: thought so your intro was effective um I uh I felt like it was a bit of a an arena or a shooting

[1:57:22] Trustee Fast: gallery I'm just not that convinced that town halls uh like that um are very effective at

[1:57:29] Trustee Fast: collecting feedback a lot of it had come to us before in um uh writing and uh or in other

[1:57:37] Trustee Fast: presentations and uh and surveys and things and i uh i felt that a little bit like it was a shooting

[1:57:43] Trustee Fast: gallery and i wasn't sure that it was uh as um uh that it was the right tactic uh for what we were

[1:57:51] Trustee Fast: trying to achieve. It might be traditional, but times are changing and social media is upon us

[1:58:01] Trustee Fast: now. Anyway, I wondered about how useful the input was and all the time that people put into it,

[1:58:08] Trustee Fast: including the participants. So maybe next time we want to think about a different kind of

[1:58:15] Trustee Fast: approach than a town hall for a session like that. I think that's the main part. Suffering

[1:58:26] Trustee Fast: is optional, I have written down here. And I was thinking we could look to our IAP2 and the other

[1:58:34] Trustee Fast: kinds of engagement approaches like we've explored with in the past and that we are interested in.

[1:58:40] Trustee Fast: We have this dense participatory culture is one of the terms for what we have, including here on

[1:58:46] Trustee Fast: Bowen and um I think there could be a ways to make that a a real feature uh for uh the kinds

[1:58:54] Trustee Fast: of engagement that we do um I looked through my notes I took notes and I looked through my notes

[1:59:03] Trustee Fast: and I noticed through the I'm talking about the July 8th meeting now uh that um um of trustees

[1:59:10] Trustee Fast: uh that two trustees mentioned a discussion paper and uh this sounds to me like the guidebook that

[1:59:17] Trustee Fast: that our delegate just brought to our attention,

[1:59:21] Trustee Fast: the single source of truth,

[1:59:22] Trustee Fast: that that might be something we might want to think about.

[1:59:25] Trustee Fast: Both Cameron Thorne and Lee Middleton

[1:59:27] Trustee Fast: had mentioned discussion paper that I had noted down.

[1:59:31] Trustee Fast: Maybe others had and I'd missed them.

[1:59:35] Trustee Fast: And that's really all I had to say at this level.

[1:59:38] Trustee Fast: Thank you.

[1:59:40] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Sue Ellen Fast.

[1:59:41] Trustee Luckham: So I think I said Dan Rogers next,

[1:59:44] Trustee Luckham: and then Trustee Patrick,

[1:59:45] Trustee Luckham: and then I'll come to myself actually as well.

[1:59:49] Trustee Rogers: So thank you.

[1:59:51] Trustee Rogers: And frankly, I've been thinking so much about the way forward rather than what has occurred that I haven't I hadn't given a lot of.

[2:00:00] Trustee Rogers: thought to the um uh the actual event itself i mean obviously we didn't i mean i think i said

[2:00:09] Trustee Rogers: at one point we sort of had three objectives for the meeting on july the 8th and i sort of see that

[2:00:14] Trustee Rogers: we got one and a half of them done um and the main one obviously we didn't get to was was um

[2:00:23] Trustee Rogers: was any proposed amendments to the draft policy statement.

[2:00:30] Trustee Rogers: And I know that there were a number of them out there

[2:00:34] Trustee Rogers: that people were going to propose.

[2:00:37] Trustee Rogers: So let me just give you some feedback.

[2:00:40] Trustee Rogers: Frankly, I'm always interested in different engagement tools

[2:00:48] Trustee Rogers: tools and and never stuck with anything but the i think there was a very large expectation of

[2:00:55] Trustee Rogers: having a town hall and i i think it would have been um a bit of a well it would have been

[2:01:02] Trustee Rogers: inappropriate in my view to not have some sort of public commentary because there was a lot of

[2:01:07] Trustee Rogers: a lot of you a lot of views that people wanted to say a lot as opposed to right and i thought

[2:01:13] Trustee Rogers: But most of them said it in a way that was appropriate.

[2:01:20] Trustee Rogers: Thank you for letting us do that, for guiding us through that, Chair Lockham.

[2:01:27] Trustee Rogers: I mean, there were a couple of people that obviously came from a place of anger,

[2:01:33] Trustee Rogers: but most of it was thoughtful and well-received and I think gave them an opportunity

[2:01:38] Trustee Rogers: to speak to the trust council as a group,

[2:01:44] Trustee Rogers: as opposed to individual trustees or in writing.

[2:01:49] Trustee Rogers: You know, the special meeting was the special meeting.

[2:01:53] Trustee Rogers: I thought there was a lot of thoughtful discussion

[2:01:56] Trustee Rogers: that occurred.

[2:01:57] Trustee Rogers: I was very pleased to see Trustee Critchley's motion pass

[2:02:02] Trustee Rogers: unanimously.

[2:02:02] Trustee Rogers: I think that hopefully puts that issue not behind us,

[2:02:08] Trustee Rogers: but at least take some of the energy around some of the criticism we'd received related to earlier motions.

[2:02:14] Trustee Rogers: And so the real issue is the trust policy statement. And I do find it.

[2:02:21] Trustee Rogers: I don't know what the right word is. It's somewhat, I suppose, in keeping that they basically they said we wanted a fulsome engagement process.

[2:02:32] Trustee Rogers: And we're going to talk about that going forward because there's a briefing about this.

[2:02:36] Trustee Rogers: um uh and we're going to give it to the executive committee to figure out what that looks like

[2:02:41] Trustee Rogers: and the staff um who of course um had approved and designed the previous process so um anyway

[2:02:54] Trustee Rogers: there and i know that my peer packers wanted to get more detailed information about what that

[2:02:59] Trustee Rogers: might look like and i think some of the motions give us some guidance related to that so uh you

[2:03:04] Trustee Rogers: You know, it was, I think we still have a lot of work to do related to that.

[2:03:08] Trustee Rogers: One of which is how do we deal with motions to amend the trust policy statement?

[2:03:16] Trustee Rogers: And what does the engagement process look like?

[2:03:19] Trustee Rogers: And those were questions that were unanswered.

[2:03:21] Trustee Rogers: And I think everybody came away knowing those were questions unanswered.

[2:03:24] Trustee Rogers: And I'm not sure when they're going to, how we're going to answer them.

[2:03:28] Trustee Rogers: We're going to start the process of administering them today and move forward from there.

[2:03:33] Trustee Rogers: And I'm quite certain that this has been very much on the mind of the CAO and others as to what we do, how we go forward.

[2:03:43] Trustee Rogers: So I say today, I mean, for us to start today, I'm quite sure that this has been actively thought about at the senior management level for the last 10 days since that.

[2:03:55] Trustee Rogers: that so um anyway i think we came out of it as well as could be expected uh in the circumstances

[2:04:04] Trustee Rogers: that we we found ourselves in and i hope people felt heard thank you okay

[2:04:12] Trustee Luckham: thank you dan uh vice

[2:04:13] Trustee Luckham: chair patrick um

[2:04:16] Trustee Patrick: i'd have spent uh since july going back into the history because i i wanted

[2:04:22] Trustee Patrick: wanted to understand kind of what the progression and I followed in particular, I followed the

[2:04:29] Trustee Patrick: agricultural dots from the beginning through, because I just wanted to see, you know, how that

[2:04:34] Trustee Patrick: laid out and where we ended up and so forth. So it was an interesting trip back through history.

[2:04:41] Trustee Patrick: um the uh the the town hall i think i i agree with the you know um peter johnson's uh comment

[2:04:52] Trustee Patrick: that i think when i saw that we only had just such a few people left that hadn't spoken first

[2:04:57] Trustee Patrick: that i think that would have been a good check-in just to say should we just let them speak because

[2:05:01] Trustee Patrick: i think then we were so close to the end of the list um it would have given that sense of

[2:05:07] Trustee Patrick: completeness i think and just helped a bit um on the day again yeah no i was um i really wanted to

[2:05:16] Trustee Patrick: engage in uh conversations with the with the with the trustees on on what the next phase of

[2:05:23] Trustee Patrick: engagement would look like because i i think you know that would have been good feedback to get but

[2:05:27] Trustee Patrick: they didn't seem to i want to talk about it it was a very interesting um the one issue is sort

[2:05:35] Trustee Patrick: of the notice of motion thing and i think that's something we should go back to visit that you know

[2:05:40] Trustee Patrick: there were clearly motions that had been prepared in advance that people had ready to go but they

[2:05:45] Trustee Patrick: weren't shared they hadn't been sent out and i think it's you know it it's okay that there is a

[2:05:51] Trustee Patrick: group of motions because you know how i always the language i always say is i may bring this tomorrow

[2:05:57] Trustee Patrick: you know at the meeting or something like that i don't say i am bringing it i usually use the word

[2:06:01] Trustee Patrick: I may bring this because it's you know you don't know where dialogue and communications are going

[2:06:05] Trustee Patrick: to go and your resolution that you prepare in advance may no longer be relevant if the meeting

[2:06:10] Trustee Patrick: you know went a different way or someone else brings a motion that's similar and you go I can

[2:06:15] Trustee Patrick: live with that so it does help people kind of see what's on the table and what might be coming

[2:06:22] Trustee Patrick: and and have that strategic look so I think it's something we need to revisit about the notice of

[2:06:26] Trustee Patrick: motion and um it may have helped um especially at the beginning of the meeting when you know

[2:06:32] Trustee Patrick: that there's a whole pile coming and kind of the management of the meeting if there's an order that

[2:06:37] Trustee Patrick: makes more sense uh and that's really all i have to say about those meetings okay

[2:06:47] Trustee Luckham: uh thank you

[2:06:48] Trustee Luckham: trustee patrick and thank you guys for all your comments um now i sort of think that uh uh overall

[2:06:56] Trustee Luckham: the meeting went well. We came out with some direction and we listened to the community

[2:07:05] Trustee Luckham: broadly, both the emails and correspondence that we received ahead of time, as well as those that

[2:07:10] Trustee Luckham: spoke at the town hall. And I think that the decision that council came to reflected that.

[2:07:17] Trustee Luckham: I too am grateful to Trustee Rogers and Trustee Critchley for the new motion on

[2:07:25] Trustee Luckham: the importance of the environment in our work. I think that the one thing I would like to address

[2:07:35] Trustee Luckham: is because there was some criticism about continuing the meeting at all with the power

[2:07:44] Trustee Luckham: outage and indeed the remarks about ending the meeting when there was a few speakers remaining.

[2:07:53] Trustee Luckham: I, you know, one, I think that the time management is always difficult in these meetings and if we advertise and set an expectation that a meeting is going to be two hours long, rather than open ended.

[2:08:10] Trustee Luckham: If we want to do an open-ended meeting, then that's up to council.

[2:08:16] Trustee Luckham: I didn't feel that there was any desire for it to be open-ended, and we'd already gone

[2:08:22] Trustee Luckham: 15 minutes overtime when I closed the meeting.

[2:08:27] Trustee Luckham: And just with respect to the decision to continue the meeting when the power went out, there

[2:08:35] Trustee Luckham: was some criticism as to who on staff made that decision.

[2:08:39] Trustee Luckham: decision. Nobody on staff made that decision. The chair made that decision. And I made that decision, not fully on all information that that was a bit I didn't have the information available to me that was able to actually indicate the numbers but I certainly had a sense of watching the numbers that there was enough people in the room that were still online trustees that were online.

[2:09:09] Trustee Luckham: and participants that had joined us when the power went out that was in the hundreds

[2:09:18] Trustee Luckham: that terminating the meeting would have been equally as disrespectful if not more disrespectful

[2:09:24] Trustee Luckham: to all of those people that had made that joined us and made the time available in their lives

[2:09:35] Trustee Luckham: to participate in this discussion and I have no idea even now how it would have been that we would

[2:09:42] Trustee Luckham: have reconvened that meeting at a later time it would have honestly seriously disrupted it but

[2:09:52] Trustee Luckham: nonetheless I'd asked for the Google Analytics after the fact and indeed there were 300 people

[2:09:57] Trustee Luckham: that joined us online from the streaming and when the power went out there was a while there was a

[2:10:05] Trustee Luckham: about 135 or 130 some odd participants.

[2:10:09] Trustee Luckham: I think we lost about 40,

[2:10:10] Trustee Luckham: a significant number of those people

[2:10:13] Trustee Luckham: or a number of those people were able to rejoin.

[2:10:17] Trustee Luckham: Others joined us during the power outage.

[2:10:20] Trustee Luckham: And indeed I recognize some names

[2:10:22] Trustee Luckham: as being those from Pender and Maine and Saturna

[2:10:27] Trustee Luckham: and trustees were able to come back

[2:10:29] Trustee Luckham: with alternative methods of communication.

[2:10:31] Trustee Luckham: So I think, I believe that it was the right thing to continue, and we did obviously receive lots of information from folks, and as we go into this consultation process, there'll be opportunity for those to speak that didn't.

[2:10:46] Trustee Luckham: With respect to finishing when there were so few people remaining on the list, I was just trying to be respectful of the time and the commitment that we had all made to that.

[2:10:56] Trustee Luckham: that um so the work is ahead of

[2:11:00] Trustee Luckham: us and uh i am i'm grateful to for everybody that participated

[2:11:04] Trustee Luckham: we certainly heard lots and i'm grateful to council for the decisions that they made

[2:11:09] Trustee Luckham: that's it for me ceo hudson pod uh

[2:11:12] Voice 7: thanks mr chair so um you know we uh as government people

[2:11:17] Voice 7: plot and plan and try and do our very best to get uh um um input and content um and decision

[2:11:25] Voice 7: decision-making moments to sequence in the right way, and sometimes it's right, sometimes it's

[2:11:29] Voice 7: wrong. I do think there was value in the special meeting. I think the notion of the special meeting

[2:11:34] Voice 7: initially was to get Trust Council to say, you know, these are our ideas, let's give it first

[2:11:39] Voice 7: reading and move forward. And that wasn't the outcome, the first reading portion, and that's

[2:11:45] Voice 7: fine. It still served a purpose. I think ultimately Trust Council heard from community and made

[2:11:53] Voice 7: adjustments and appropriate adjustments. I do note that I was counting the content of the,

[2:12:04] Voice 7: I don't know how many speakers spoke exactly. There's

[2:12:07] Voice 3: many,

[2:12:08] Voice 7: very limited discussion around the

[2:12:12] Voice 7: content or the policies inside the document and much of it concerned with engagement.

[2:12:18] Voice 7: And we as an organization can say, well, we engaged and we discussed and we did all these

[2:12:23] Voice 7: things but if people don't think that's the case they are right so um uh that we uh we did have an

[2:12:29] Voice 7: engagement plan to follow first reading and what we now have is a more robot a requirement for a

[2:12:35] Voice 7: more robust or a slightly different character and in some ways it was hard to anticipate um

[2:12:40] Voice 7: what would catch the public imagination and indeed it's that question it's the it's

[2:12:45] Voice 7: were we engaged there so i segue then into the amendment question indeed it would have been

[2:12:51] Voice 7: good if there was um obvious and general amendments but the communities did not speak out

[2:12:57] Voice 7: about content so while a lost opportunity i don't think it is um in the long term going to be a long

[2:13:06] Voice 7: an opportunity if that was the thing that didn't happen i think that um it was the thing that was

[2:13:13] Voice 7: least of interest to community overall there were some pointed comments and i think that they were

[2:13:19] Voice 7: certainly get folded into the process the notion of a discussion paper um was one that um my view

[2:13:27] Voice 7: on that i think might differ this isn't the document as presented is not was not ever intended

[2:13:33] Voice 7: as a discussion paper um it's been a discussion paper status for um a number of months but had

[2:13:40] Voice 7: matured with council committees and subcommittee support over time and so it's it's it's at a

[2:13:48] Voice 7: a different status it's at a status that I think ultimately was recognized by trust council to move

[2:13:55] Voice 7: forward with this is some of our ideas what do others think about it and community what about

[2:14:00] Voice 7: these ideas should they be amplified or reduced and that still goes forward so I'm I don't think

[2:14:07] Voice 7: it was accurate for it to be a discussion paper as such because that would bring us back in time

[2:14:12] Voice 7: and we would be undergoing literally some of the same process we've already undertaken

[2:14:18] Voice 7: I did note that many of the trustees a note of concern perhaps but that these are you know

[2:14:26] Voice 7: trustees will make their directions as they see fit some retreat from the document as saying oh

[2:14:32] Voice 7: much work needs to be done and it hasn't had a full review but of course it has had significant

[2:14:38] Voice 7: review it has been through council committees for months and many of these there's no policies here

[2:14:45] Voice 7: that have not seen some version of trust council or its policy.

[2:14:51] Voice 7: So I'm hoping that as we go forward,

[2:14:54] Voice 7: that that ownership moving forward is more complete.

[2:14:59] Voice 7: And as we address some of the issues

[2:15:01] Voice 7: that the community are concerned about and address them well,

[2:15:03] Voice 7: that that will get complete buy-in throughout.

[2:15:08] Voice 7: There was some concern expressed around a reconciliation work.

[2:15:11] Voice 7: If there's one area that we have been clear

[2:15:14] Voice 7: throughout that we were working on a government-to-government basis with First Nations

[2:15:18] Voice 7: who wish to engage with us on their terms, then that is one of the two or three points of this

[2:15:26] Voice 7: engagement process that we've undertaken. So that has been the point. We've gone out.

[2:15:30] Voice 7: Some nations have indeed wished to engage with us. Some might not have this as an important element.

[2:15:37] Voice 7: And that we're doing it based on a government-to-government basis and that those

[2:15:41] Voice 7: those responses will come into trust counsel for their consideration as they adopt the document

[2:15:46] Voice 7: and make it modern so overall though I think it was a value and I think that the the town hall

[2:15:55] Voice 7: while reactionary in some ways was appropriate to have and I think there were some very good

[2:16:00] Voice 7: comments that came through and that we can learn from those comments as we go forward and as we

[2:16:04] Voice 7: get into the next topic on this agenda we'll be looking at some of the issues that the previous

[2:16:10] Voice 7: a speaker um at this meeting brought up around you know what do we want to get out of this and

[2:16:15] Voice 7: how are we going to do it and to have it within the constraints that exists that exist given the

[2:16:20] Voice 7: motions we've had from trust council um over the last little while so i think the project carries

[2:16:25] Voice 7: on and uh i think we'll uh i think we'll get to a reasonable outcome at the end so thank you

[2:16:34] Trustee Luckham: thank you uh ceo so i'm just gonna ask you um you know this was a special meeting very limited

[2:16:40] Trustee Luckham: at an agenda uh well one one agenda item in town hall um is there a necessity to have any other

[2:16:46] Trustee Luckham: staff uh chime in on this particular council um

[2:16:50] Voice 7: i don't really think so um you know we we've got a

[2:16:54] Voice 7: limited number of staff here today certainly it was um claire was the uh the leader of the team

[2:16:59] Voice 7: that did the substantial amount of the work um david's there and she's act he's acting on claire's

[2:17:04] Voice 7: behalf but um no one unless you have some specific questions i think for for the agenda today that uh

[2:17:11] Voice 7: um you know difficult moment i think you know i can say that the staff realize that those are

[2:17:16] Voice 7: difficult moments and um lots of thinking through how um how we can um refine our process going

[2:17:22] Voice 7: forward but um um and and challenges out in community and that there's an undercurrent

[2:17:27] Voice 7: there that the staff around how staff are characterized throughout this process and

[2:17:31] Voice 7: We appreciated the trustees during the meeting, making very clear what are political decisions and what are administrative ones.

[2:17:40] Voice 7: So I think that was of value.

[2:17:42] Voice 7: And I also see that we have had to do, given the decision of Trust Council to postpone first reading and engage more, the volume of traffic that we've had to deal with from a public concern point of view has gone down substantially.

[2:17:58] Voice 7: So I think that is a positive as well.

[2:18:01] Voice 7: all I think the staff would agree.

[2:18:04] Trustee Luckham: Right thank you sir and so that's all right with vice chairs

[2:18:08] Trustee Luckham: then I think that actually the report that's ahead of us here in the trust area services

[2:18:16] Trustee Luckham: is the next steps from that meeting and that we can have that discussion there. I do want to just

[2:18:23] Trustee Luckham: segue for a minute that indeed the temperature has come down and that's great and I think two

[2:18:28] Trustee Luckham: two things contributed to that, the decision of council to postpone first reading. And also,

[2:18:36] Trustee Luckham: I would say that the flyer that we sent out to the entire trust area has also helped clarify the

[2:18:42] Trustee Luckham: facts as we see them. And that has, I've received quite a lot of compliments from people

[2:18:48] Trustee Luckham: thanking me for having sent that out to help clarify the situation. So that's good. I'm glad

[2:18:55] Trustee Luckham: we've got a bit of a pause and and now we're going to launch into that next section so the

[2:19:00] Trustee Luckham: other item here was the trust council decision highlights which was sent out um uh on our normal

[2:19:06] Trustee Luckham: list i believe and so um i think that we'll just receive that for information unless there's any

[2:19:12] Trustee Luckham: remarks about that particular item yeah posted july the 12th it was thank you lori and so i'm

[2:19:21] Trustee Luckham: not seeing any hands raised there so we'll just receive that from information and now at 20

[2:19:26] Trustee Luckham: 20 minutes after 11, I think I'd like to go for a break

[2:19:28] Trustee Luckham: at noon for lunch.

[2:19:30] Trustee Luckham: And I think that I would like to move all the way through

[2:19:34] Trustee Luckham: the other items of which there's no materials

[2:19:37] Trustee Luckham: to the trust area services section

[2:19:39] Trustee Luckham: and to 9.1.2.1, the honest 2015 engagement

[2:19:43] Trustee Luckham: and next steps briefing, if that's all right.

[2:19:46] Trustee Luckham: Anybody have any concerns or questions

[2:19:48] Trustee Luckham: before we advance to their trustee fast?

[2:19:51] Trustee Luckham: And then I'll turn it over, I'm guessing David Mahler

[2:19:54] Trustee Luckham: is going to launch into this but perhaps the ceo wants to make an introductory remark okay

[2:19:58] Trustee Luckham: fast over to you um

[2:20:01] Trustee Fast: i wonder if we wanted to talk about peter johnson's input since he sent us

[2:20:06] Trustee Luckham: thank you

[2:20:07] Trustee Luckham: um yes you're absolutely right um um so go ahead do you want to make so that's the letter

[2:20:13] Trustee Luckham: sent from him there was a lot of very good comments there and certainly don't see why we

[2:20:17] Trustee Luckham: wouldn't take those into consideration over to you uh trustee fast if you want to speak to that

[2:20:22] Trustee Fast: i'm i would just say about the same thing as you except that i uh um i did like uh the way you set

[2:20:31] Trustee Fast: up the meeting and we'll be speaking to that later i think in 9.1.2.3 so anyway i'm uh i didn't have

[2:20:39] Trustee Fast: anything to add particularly it was just that you had mentioned you wanted to speak to it and it's

[2:20:43] Trustee Fast: on the agenda sure

[2:20:45] Trustee Luckham: um and i actually do have a specific remark i'd like to make about his letter

[2:20:50] Trustee Luckham: but I'm going to go to ask the other vice chairs if they have any remark on that other than

[2:20:54] Trustee Luckham: receding it for information. Not seeing anything. Okay. So I would just like, it's interesting

[2:21:01] Trustee Luckham: because I've heard this from the public as well, is that in the, I think the last paragraph he says

[2:21:07] Trustee Luckham: he's surprised that there isn't a consultation plan ready. Well, we did have a consultation

[2:21:12] Trustee Luckham: plan and do have a consultation plan. And now based upon public feedback and the desire for

[2:21:18] Trustee Luckham: more time we are amending that consultation plan so there was always a plan and i think that that's

[2:21:24] Trustee Luckham: important to realize and um you know hindsight is always 20 20 and i think i'll just say that

[2:21:31] Trustee Luckham: not 2050 but 2020 in this particular um so if there's nothing further we'll receive that

[2:21:38] Trustee Luckham: from information trustee patrick i

[2:21:40] Trustee Patrick: think what's important instead of saying well we always had

[2:21:43] Trustee Patrick: a plan is there was a perception that we didn't and i think that's the message we need to think

[2:21:48] Trustee Patrick: of as we go into this next conversation with being on the engagement next steps really

[2:21:54] Trustee Luckham: thank you for

[2:21:55] Trustee Luckham: that uh trustee Patrick because there you are exactly right um and uh that that we're learning

[2:22:02] Trustee Luckham: how to do better let's let's try that um so great anything else otherwise um CEO do you want to

[2:22:09] Trustee Luckham: start us off and then introduce David Marla to walk us through the document what's the plan here

[2:22:14] Trustee Luckham: um

[2:22:14] Voice 7: sure mr chair um so i'll just make some brief um comments and then david is is uh is

[2:22:23] Voice 7: essentially working on claire's behalf and working with her team and and we've got this in front of

[2:22:31] Voice 7: you as a discussion paper um i will say that this is a working discussion today and this paper here

[2:22:41] Voice 7: is to is to get is not just a report out to you it's to it's to get some feedback because as

[2:22:46] Voice 7: vice chair rogers said trust council has turned and said executive committee and staff develop

[2:22:53] Voice 7: an enhanced engagement plan and i think we need to be very frank about what that means

[2:23:01] Voice 7: and what the goals associated with that plan are and the anticipated outcomes that will

[2:23:08] Voice 7: We'll further the policy statement.

[2:23:11] Voice 7: So this is our, we've had, as discussed,

[2:23:15] Voice 7: we've had maybe 10 working days,

[2:23:17] Voice 7: but really we had an agenda to get out.

[2:23:20] Voice 7: So we've got this in front of you

[2:23:22] Voice 7: as a brief summary report to say,

[2:23:25] Voice 7: this is top of mind.

[2:23:26] Voice 7: We're meeting over the rest of this week

[2:23:28] Voice 7: and into next week on actual,

[2:23:29] Voice 7: some of the practical elements.

[2:23:32] Voice 7: And this is to get your feedback to us

[2:23:35] Voice 7: around some of the key things

[2:23:37] Voice 7: that you think are important. And while David will be doing this, I'm keenly involved as the

[2:23:42] Voice 7: CAO in this matter, so I will drop in as needed to assist. But with that, I turn it over to David.

[2:23:50] Voice 7: Thanks very much.

[2:23:52] Voice 2: Okay, thank you. So through the chair, I put this together, as the CAO said,

[2:23:59] Voice 2: a really short time to just get it before you. And what I wanted to do here is highlight the

[2:24:07] Voice 2: the five resolutions that came out of the special trust council meeting which listed there

[2:24:13] Voice 2: on page 46 of the agenda in front of you and then just kind of take you through below it's

[2:24:21] Voice 2: under it says key points to consider in development of an engagement plan what these

[2:24:26] Voice 2: resolutions mean and in general very high level what council has done is change the scope by

[2:24:35] Voice 2: by expanding the engagement,

[2:24:38] Voice 2: change the budget by adding $75,000

[2:24:41] Voice 2: and change the timeline by delaying the first reading,

[2:24:46] Voice 2: but also requiring the time

[2:24:48] Voice 2: for that public consultation to go ahead.

[2:24:51] Voice 2: So really all three pillars

[2:24:53] Voice 2: of the project charter have changed.

[2:24:56] Voice 2: So that project charter will be coming back to you

[2:24:59] Voice 2: with some recommendations as to what should be in it.

[2:25:02] Voice 2: So that's what will be coming back to you

[2:25:04] Voice 2: the next meeting in August with that. The funding has a requirement, so resolution number five

[2:25:13] Voice 2: requires that Trust Council approves the revised engagement plan.

[2:25:24] Voice 2: And so next Council meeting is the end of September. So to do that, that means that

[2:25:31] Voice 2: that to have consultation done in time for first reading in December would only give us probably

[2:25:37] Voice 2: 30 days of public consultation because councils early this year in December actually starts on

[2:25:44] Voice 2: November 30th I believe so we would have to have the agenda items ready for early November EC

[2:25:50] Voice 2: meeting which gives us just October so I think reality is that council is going to be considering

[2:25:57] Voice 2: fish reading in March at the earliest and on page 47 I've indicated some effects of delaying

[2:26:07] Voice 2: fish reading to March which really gives us three and maybe even stretched out to four months

[2:26:13] Voice 2: of consultation that could wrap up in February 2022 and then go to March for consideration of

[2:26:21] Voice 2: fresh reading. That then leaves you the ability to consider second and third reading in June

[2:26:28] Voice 2: and then send it for ministerial approval and it will depend on how long the minister takes to

[2:26:35] Voice 2: approve. Our feedback from the ministry is it's potentially it doesn't have to take six months,

[2:26:42] Voice 2: it could be less. It really depends on you know how well received it is by First Nations

[2:26:49] Voice 2: and whether or not there's any concerns at the provincial agency level.

[2:26:56] Voice 2: So on page 48, there is just an outline of the timeline, what we'll probably be working with.

[2:27:05] Voice 2: And again, this is all subject to approval from EC and more discussion.

[2:27:11] Voice 2: At the bottom of page 46, there's a couple of bullets there with key points the executive committee to consider.

[2:27:19] Voice 2: And I thought this might help to engage today a little bit with you to get some thoughts about what the Executive Committee would like us to consider.

[2:27:30] Voice 2: We are meeting tomorrow at the staff level to begin looking at drafting a report back to update the project charter for engagement and also come back with options and recommendations.

[2:27:44] Voice 2: and so anything that comes out of today we can certainly build that into the process as well

[2:27:52] Voice 2: so i assume you've read it so i'm not going to go through every detail in this report

[2:27:55] Voice 2: but maybe just pass it back to the chair for discussion so thank you i'll answer any questions

[2:28:01] Voice 2: or clarification if you need them as we go

[2:28:06] Voice 10: okay so perhaps um

[2:28:09] Voice 10: oh

[2:28:10] Trustee Luckham: ceo go ahead well

[2:28:12] Voice 7: just to segue

[2:28:13] Voice 7: way back out from david's um review there so uh indeed we have some stark um challenges but

[2:28:26] Voice 7: opportunities as well associated with this and i think there's some themes that we have to discuss

[2:28:32] Voice 7: and indeed march could be more collectively convenient on some levels um but you know we

[2:28:39] Voice 7: We could, you know, hammer and tongs, move forward to December.

[2:28:44] Voice 7: I think a key question is this, and that is the nature of the policy statement itself.

[2:28:51] Voice 7: And much like the earlier presenter said, what outcome from the public discussion, what

[2:28:59] Voice 7: does Trust Council want to see?

[2:29:03] Voice 7: And how would those lands and what questions would we put in front of community around

[2:29:09] Voice 7: the policy statement itself?

[2:29:10] Voice 7: because this because it's going to that i think will lead will lead us and what do i mean the

[2:29:17] Voice 7: policy statement is a high level with without a couple of exceptions it's a high level policy

[2:29:22] Voice 7: document and because it's regional it has to be have many things in common it's a representation

[2:29:30] Voice 7: of commonality across the trust do we have the ability to divide things up by an ltc basis in

[2:29:36] Voice 7: the policy statement yes but we already do that through our ocps so um if you actually go from

[2:29:45] Voice 7: the community consultation process to the outcome if you go into the policy statement itself each

[2:29:52] Voice 7: of the subject areas is just a matter of four or five policies that need reflection agriculture

[2:30:02] Voice 7: coastal marine, reconciliation, forestry, all of these pieces. Each of those pieces even manifest

[2:30:11] Voice 7: through a significant public policy conversation are still high-level policies. Now there are some

[2:30:17] Voice 7: specific policies that act like OCP direction and we understand that and we've had some public

[2:30:23] Voice 7: feedback about those and that's an oddity associated with the policy statement and we

[2:30:27] Voice 7: we have to reconcile that somehow. But framing the type of conversation and feedback and making

[2:30:34] Voice 7: the conversation about something that will have an outcome inside the policy statement, as opposed

[2:30:39] Voice 7: to a general discussion about the Allen's Trust, is going to be really important, I think, moving

[2:30:43] Voice 7: forward. I also think that you should consider, or we should consider, that different parts of

[2:30:48] Voice 7: the trust will require, or might be appropriate, or we can only afford, different types of engagement.

[2:30:55] Voice 7: and that having a universal engagement might not be to our general benefit we just heard the story

[2:31:01] Voice 7: of main island that might be different than salt spring and we have to build that into the process

[2:31:07] Voice 7: as well i'll note that the gate that the uh the local area planning process the the communications

[2:31:15] Voice 7: budget associated on salt spring for the ganges village is 75 70 000 and we have 75 000 for the

[2:31:22] Voice 7: the whole islands trust area to engage in a similar discussion but at a higher level so i think you

[2:31:30] Voice 7: you will want to think about treating different areas differently and as vice chairs you have

[2:31:36] Voice 7: that unique ability to do that and then we'll amend some of our programming and this will be

[2:31:40] Voice 7: iterative we will take what you come back with work some things through and bring it back to you

[2:31:46] Voice 7: at the end of this today you will have to consider whether you want to have another meeting

[2:31:50] Voice 7: or something because we're not going to be able to get a full engagement plan to you in a week

[2:31:56] Voice 7: and a half which would be August 3rd and there's trust council direction to have it done by August

[2:32:02] Voice 7: so trust council made a few decisions that don't that don't necessarily fit into um easy delivery

[2:32:10] Voice 7: so what how do we address that factor can we go to early September with uh confirming that

[2:32:15] Voice 7: engagement plan pre-trust council and when do you want to see it so I just want to take those and

[2:32:19] Voice 7: sort of frame some of the key decisions that you're we're going to have to come out of um in

[2:32:23] Voice 7: the meeting today as we start to get into the work thanks very

[2:32:30] Trustee Luckham: good thank you uh russ for providing

[2:32:33] Trustee Luckham: some focus there um so vice chairs a number of things to obviously discuss um including

[2:32:42] Trustee Luckham: additional meetings and timelines um i'll turn to you to seek some questions of clarity remarks

[2:32:50] Trustee Luckham: Marks, comments, directions?

[2:32:53] Trustee Luckham: I'm going to start with Trustee Patrick

[2:32:55] Trustee Luckham: and then go Trustee Rogers, Trustee Fast.

[2:33:02] Trustee Patrick: I don't know where to begin.

[2:33:09] Trustee Patrick: Well, I understand and I think,

[2:33:12] Trustee Patrick: I doubt there's any one of us in the executive

[2:33:15] Trustee Patrick: that doesn't understand kind of what the policy statement is

[2:33:18] Trustee Patrick: and where we are.

[2:33:19] Trustee Patrick: But the reality is we have a very large number of people

[2:33:24] Trustee Patrick: people living in the trust area that don't understand it they don't even understand what

[2:33:30] Trustee Patrick: the island's trust is i i start when i meet with a group of people i ask how many of you in the

[2:33:35] Trustee Patrick: room understand fully understand what the island's trust is i i usually get maybe a couple of half a

[2:33:42] Trustee Patrick: hands up you know you know so we're we're in such a deficit of understanding and then this policy

[2:33:49] Trustee Patrick: statement is you know just another new word that what does that mean what and um and and i don't

[2:34:03] Trustee Patrick: see as i look at all these motions i think one schedule to me is a secondary goal at the moment

[2:34:11] Trustee Patrick: the primary goal is to get you know an you know an understanding and support to get to a policy

[2:34:16] Trustee Patrick: statement that we think is going to serve this area into into the next you know step so i think

[2:34:24] Trustee Patrick: that the overall goal is we want to get a document that really reflects and is going to drive and

[2:34:28] Trustee Patrick: help us deal with some you know important issues uh the schedule needs to be you know secondary to

[2:34:38] Trustee Patrick: that this you know we so we can't force a consultation to meet the schedule we've got

[2:34:43] Trustee Patrick: to make sure we we design a consultation that's going to meet our needs um and then adjust the

[2:34:49] Trustee Patrick: schedule to to that um and i see on the like this motion for here the this motion to share

[2:35:00] Trustee Patrick: i'm i'm concerned uh you know trustees voted down the um amendment to say well let's get some

[2:35:10] Trustee Patrick: context and help for to having these conversations they voted that down so it's stuck with just share

[2:35:16] Trustee Patrick: it you go out and share it so how much how much energy and time do we want to put in helping

[2:35:21] Trustee Patrick: people share between now and september versus designing an engagement process that's proper

[2:35:26] Trustee Patrick: and i and i think the designing the engagement process is the priority to running out there and

[2:35:34] Trustee Patrick: sharing the document because i don't think it's going to help us without the context piece

[2:35:39] Trustee Patrick: and I think the discussion I sent out I think I sent to EC the document from um Burnaby on

[2:35:46] Trustee Patrick: your voice your home discussion guide and this is about housing but it's it's exactly what

[2:35:52] Trustee Patrick: Mari was talking about earlier um is it's a guide designed to just help the conversation

[2:35:59] Trustee Patrick: occur and it's the it's it's the what are we going to talk about document and I think when

[2:36:07] Trustee Patrick: when that helps, you know, CAO says, well, maybe we only have a few questions that we need to get

[2:36:13] Trustee Patrick: out rather than the whole policy statement. Something like this allows us to put out those

[2:36:21] Trustee Patrick: questions. Here's what we want to know. Because I think on the surface, you know, it does look like

[2:36:28] Trustee Patrick: there's an entire new policy statement out there. Is it or isn't it? And I think that's our job to

[2:36:34] Trustee Patrick: really lay out what is different what are the differences and why are they different and where

[2:36:41] Trustee Patrick: are the areas we need feedback in to make those decisions where we have them

[2:36:47] Trustee Patrick: and I think that's the value of having of taking the time to develop a discussion guide

[2:36:56] Trustee Patrick: and because one of the the differences here you know when I look at the Burnaby one you know a

[2:37:02] Trustee Patrick: a resident in Burnaby knows what a municipality is and understands what their local government

[2:37:05] Trustee Patrick: is doing. We don't even have that benefit. We have our residents are going, what's the

[2:37:10] Trustee Patrick: Islands Trust? So this can also help serve, you know, we got to, who are we and what is this thing

[2:37:19] Trustee Patrick: and how does it relate, you know, to you and those questions. So I think there's a huge benefit to

[2:37:25] Trustee Patrick: to doing that yes it's complex and i think we need some help to to get there and um you know

[2:37:34] Trustee Patrick: maybe i'll let the dialogue go a little bit more i did send laurie some draft motions and i mean

[2:37:39] Trustee Patrick: they're really draft but for conversation purposes but i'll let others speak and then we can

[2:37:43] Trustee Patrick: go from there thank

[2:37:47] Trustee Luckham: you trustee patrick um did i say trustee rogers next hi

[2:37:59] Trustee Rogers: um so

[2:38:03] Trustee Rogers: So thank you for the thought process, and it seems to me, I mean, I try and segment what their decision makings and what our discussion items, and there's obviously a lot to be talked about going forward.

[2:38:20] Trustee Rogers: but mostly i'm i am um thinking about uh engagement and i just want to say i think

[2:38:32] Trustee Rogers: it's important that we not and i with all due respect to the trustees who said this

[2:38:39] Trustee Rogers: uh at trust council that we not treat the draft that's in front of us as a discussion paper and

[2:38:44] Trustee Rogers: and start the process over again um it's uh like the whole process all over again um we heard a

[2:38:53] Trustee Rogers: number of voices at town hall granted they were probably not the majority who said they felt very

[2:38:58] Trustee Rogers: engaged because they got involved in the in the process from the beginning and had had their voice

[2:39:05] Trustee Rogers: and felt like their voice was heard and they encouraged the the principles that we have

[2:39:11] Trustee Rogers: embodied that have been embodied in i shouldn't say we because we haven't done anything yet

[2:39:15] Trustee Rogers: that have been embodied in the trust policy statement the draft trust policy statement

[2:39:21] Trustee Rogers: the principles um and some of the specifics cause some concern but the principles that are

[2:39:29] Trustee Rogers: embodied in it in terms of ecosystem and protection climate change uh protection prevention

[2:39:36] Trustee Rogers: prevention, housing, and reconciliation, which are the principles that we've dealt with.

[2:39:43] Trustee Rogers: And I think those principles are consistent with what the trust is doing and has been

[2:39:53] Trustee Rogers: talking about for the last three years, and with what we heard from the community, from

[2:40:01] Trustee Rogers: the engagement process to date.

[2:40:03] Trustee Rogers: And I really, I think that I don't think we need to, that it's time for us to reconsider the principles and go back to first principles and start over again.

[2:40:16] Trustee Rogers: So we're starting from where we're at.

[2:40:19] Trustee Rogers: Now, having said that, I think there's a couple of key decisions that we can probably talk about today.

[2:40:26] Trustee Rogers: One is, what is the broad framework about our engagement process?

[2:40:33] Trustee Rogers: I'm reminded of an old an old adage that says if we've done what if we do what we did we'll get

[2:40:41] Trustee Rogers: what we got and I'm very concerned that if we try sort of to do the kind of engagement that

[2:40:49] Trustee Rogers: we've done to date which I actually thought was quite effective and quite good at least

[2:40:54] Trustee Rogers: in defining the principles and the issues that we're going to get a lot of negative feedback

[2:41:01] Trustee Rogers: back again um because the people don't feel like they're engaged in the ways that we've done it

[2:41:06] Trustee Rogers: that way and that's fair enough so um uh i honestly think i really think that it's important that we

[2:41:17] Trustee Rogers: have um some outside eyes look at our our future engagement process for the next little while

[2:41:23] Trustee Rogers: and provide some advice and i see some indications of that in the in the um in the report that we've

[2:41:31] Trustee Rogers: gotten that there's some thought that that's and it's one of the reasons i made the motion at the

[2:41:35] Trustee Rogers: end of the of the trust council the special trust council to provide some further resources

[2:41:41] Trustee Rogers: uh is because um and let's be fair frank i mean the number was a random number i just picked up

[2:41:49] Trustee Rogers: i picked out it at sort of uh based on the discussion it wasn't anything that it was

[2:41:54] Trustee Rogers: based on any research i'd done as to what it would take to do i just wanted to make sure we

[2:41:59] Trustee Rogers: We had more recesses available, and CAO, my view is that those resources are in addition to the, I think there's $20,000 left in our current budget for the trust policy statement review.

[2:42:11] Trustee Rogers: So we have closer to $100,000 in my understanding of where we're at in terms of this, and even that may not be anywhere near enough, and frankly, I think if I put a higher number on it, it would have been passed as well, but I'm not sure the press council may not give us more.

[2:42:27] Trustee Rogers: So I think it's important for us to design an engagement process that does a number of things.

[2:42:32] Trustee Rogers: One is, it's island-specific.

[2:42:35] Trustee Rogers: The engagement process in Gambier is going to be entirely different than it is on South Point.

[2:42:40] Trustee Rogers: It's just going to be.

[2:42:43] Trustee Rogers: If I have 100 people that live full-time in the Gambier local trust area, I'd be surprised.

[2:42:50] Trustee Rogers: That's not true.

[2:42:51] Trustee Rogers: 200 people.

[2:42:52] Trustee Rogers: If we have 200 people that live full-time, that would be, that live full-time in the Gambier.

[2:42:57] Trustee Rogers: as opposed to 12,000 that live in Salt Spring

[2:43:00] Trustee Rogers: or whatever the number is now

[2:43:02] Trustee Rogers: that are fully engaged on a full-time basis

[2:43:05] Trustee Rogers: and what goes on there.

[2:43:07] Trustee Rogers: It's just going to have to be different

[2:43:08] Trustee Rogers: and we need different strategies for different areas.

[2:43:12] Trustee Rogers: So I do think that we need a pair of eyes,

[2:43:15] Trustee Rogers: some eyes on this and some advice

[2:43:18] Trustee Rogers: as to what that engagement process looks like

[2:43:21] Trustee Rogers: and indeed some assistance in probably rolling it out

[2:43:24] Trustee Rogers: in certain places like salt spring maybe north pender um uh maybe saturn has to have a different

[2:43:32] Trustee Rogers: approach uh i have no idea what you know gabriola might have to have a different approach

[2:43:38] Trustee Rogers: and a more on the ground approach because it's concerned about about voices not being heard i

[2:43:43] Trustee Rogers: don't do i'm not convinced yet about a deliberative dialogue just because it sounds like going back

[2:43:50] Trustee Rogers: to square one to me but i could be convinced that something of that nature would work so question

[2:43:55] Trustee Rogers: number one is how do we go about getting for me is how do we go go getting some some some strategic

[2:44:03] Trustee Rogers: advice about how to design a an engagement process i know we usually have to do rfps for that that

[2:44:10] Trustee Rogers: takes time and problematic but how do we do that and and what kind of resources do we design into

[2:44:17] Trustee Rogers: to that and how do we get that and I think that's an important first step for us I'm very I'm sort

[2:44:24] Trustee Rogers: of pleased to see that there seems to be some staff reaction that we can actually expand the

[2:44:31] Trustee Rogers: time frame because I think one of the concerns from the community was that we were trying to

[2:44:38] Trustee Rogers: contract the time frame that we were rigid in our approach to this and that we had to give a first

[2:44:45] Trustee Rogers: reading and we had to have a second reading in december and there seemed to be and that was i

[2:44:50] Trustee Rogers: and now i think there's an under at least a reflection that no you know what we can provide

[2:44:56] Trustee Rogers: some more iterative time frame we can provide a bigger time frame and i i think it makes more

[2:45:02] Trustee Rogers: sense probably if we rethought and people had more information trustees i mean we may have actually

[2:45:09] Trustee Rogers: made that motion that says december we might have made it march if we thought that there was still

[2:45:14] Trustee Rogers: an idea that we could get to the end of the community consultation and have a document

[2:45:19] Trustee Rogers: that trust council can can probably can at least uh approve uh by the end of of this term uh whether

[2:45:27] Trustee Rogers: that's adoption or or even third reading i think that that's all all good so i'm glad to see that

[2:45:34] Trustee Rogers: and i would be supportive if staff and it's obviously awkward that the staff that's been

[2:45:40] Trustee Rogers: and managing the processes in here today.

[2:45:43] Trustee Rogers: But if staff is supportive that we can do it

[2:45:49] Trustee Rogers: and still get to a meaningful result

[2:45:51] Trustee Rogers: that we even expand the timeframe a little bit more.

[2:45:54] Trustee Rogers: Having said that, I know there's a decision to make

[2:45:58] Trustee Rogers: about whether there's another executive committee meeting

[2:46:00] Trustee Rogers: before the one on September the 8th.

[2:46:06] Trustee Rogers: And I'm open to that.

[2:46:08] Trustee Rogers: that. I'm back from my holiday on the 24th of August and available pretty much after that. I

[2:46:14] Trustee Rogers: do know there's a Trust Policy Programs Committee meeting scheduled currently for the 27th of

[2:46:20] Trustee Rogers: August. I have no idea what the plans are for that. But it might, you know, something built

[2:46:26] Trustee Rogers: around that might be useful. I don't know. I don't know. That's sort of a thought that's

[2:46:32] Trustee Rogers: emerging for me right now so but it seems to me the first order of business is a discussion about

[2:46:39] Trustee Rogers: what kind of uh and how whether we can resource and how we would go about getting some uh assistance

[2:46:47] Trustee Rogers: in designing a uh a not only a sort of a trust wide but also an island specific engagement and

[2:46:56] Trustee Rogers: consultation process that's going to be seen as meaningful and um and uh and and and or i mean

[2:47:07] Trustee Rogers: i'm conscious of the fact that there are going to be people um i'm not sure everybody in burnaby

[2:47:13] Trustee Rogers: knows what a municipality is i don't know if i agree with that um and i i agree there may be a

[2:47:19] Trustee Rogers: higher level of people that don't know what the islands trust is um only because we're such a

[2:47:23] Trustee Rogers: a unique creature um i uh but but there are going to be some people that we're never going to reach

[2:47:32] Trustee Rogers: and there are going to be some people that that simply want to say they don't like the trust

[2:47:37] Trustee Rogers: we've heard that message and they think that it's a waste of money etc etc and it's sort of the other

[2:47:44] Trustee Rogers: folk that we need to have them feel like their their voice is being heard um which doesn't mean

[2:47:50] Trustee Rogers: we're going to agree with them but that they're at least being heard i doubt we're ever going to

[2:47:55] Trustee Rogers: listen to uh we're ever going to agree with someone who feels like they're cutting an island

[2:47:59] Trustee Rogers: is a good idea um because uh i'm guessing vast majority of people don't think so anyway first

[2:48:06] Trustee Rogers: decision for me is how do we get to a point where we can we can figure out getting some

[2:48:12] Trustee Rogers: professional engagement advice i'm sorry that's a long way he

[2:48:19] Trustee Luckham: had the list of things to consider

[2:48:22] Trustee Luckham: it gets longer and uh let's go to swell and fast and then i have a couple of remarks sure thank you

[2:48:29] Trustee Fast: um i agree with much of what my colleagues have said and um i um i i like the idea of getting an

[2:48:39] Trustee Fast: external uh pair of eyes as well of a pair of hands i think um to somebody for for um

[2:48:48] Trustee Fast: outside expert to have a look at the engagement that we've done so far and do sort of a gap

[2:48:54] Trustee Fast: analysis on it who have we heard from who haven't we heard from um what parts of the draft have we

[2:49:02] Trustee Fast: heard about what parts haven't you heard about what parts have we heard that are uh areas where

[2:49:10] Trustee Fast: we want to learn more or hear more or have a deeper discussion and um so i um i think we've

[2:49:21] Trustee Fast: I think that we've got a good solid draft, I agree, about the process so far, and I think

[2:49:28] Trustee Fast: we should work with that draft. I think we've got new people who've come into the process because of

[2:49:36] Trustee Fast: the lively discussion on Facebook and things like that. Well, to me, that's a bit of an opportunity

[2:49:43] Trustee Fast: to engage them and uh and uh and to do a little bit of education in terms of um what is the

[2:49:51] Trustee Fast: island's trust and and to kind of manage expectations about what is the trust policy statement and how

[2:49:58] Trustee Fast: does it work regarding individual islands ocps and and uh uh that kind of thing so i am i think

[2:50:08] Trustee Fast: I think I would like to have an informed discussion, I'm not sure I would qualify the discussion on July 7 or some, some people were really informed and and some people were frankly misinformed so I think we need some kind of discussion paper briefing.

[2:50:27] Trustee Fast: briefing uh um what did our uh delegate called it a guidebook i like that term because it implies a

[2:50:35] Trustee Fast: way forward and um we have i wasn't thinking about the draft being the discussion paper i was thinking

[2:50:41] Trustee Fast: about it being a combination of uh the faq page that's on our new website and the briefing that

[2:50:48] Trustee Fast: was preceded the uh draft and the and the flyer we sent out those kinds of things and something

[2:50:55] Trustee Fast: basic about what is the islands trust um i uh think that would help to frame and inform uh the

[2:51:04] Trustee Fast: discussion and uh put it into context about how significant is this uh document where is it

[2:51:14] Trustee Fast: significant uh at the higher level above ocps like an umbrella and um um and is it a legitimate

[2:51:21] Trustee Fast: process for those who might go what is the islands trust i never heard about this i bought

[2:51:26] Trustee Fast: bought my property. Now I'm finding out there's new regulations. And so that it's part of the

[2:51:32] Trustee Fast: provincial process. Anyway, those are some ideas. I think it would be good to hear more. I don't

[2:51:41] Trustee Fast: know about the other islands, but I gather that like Bowen, they have a lot of community groups

[2:51:47] Trustee Fast: that are used to working together. And I wonder if we might want to do some outreach specifically

[2:51:53] Trustee Fast: specifically to community groups, as tables around which people sit.

[2:52:00] Trustee Fast: I'm not sure.

[2:52:01] Trustee Fast: Youth, we didn't hear much from youth.

[2:52:04] Trustee Fast: This is that gap analysis I'm talking about.

[2:52:06] Trustee Fast: Who haven't we heard from?

[2:52:09] Trustee Fast: New people and maybe part-timers who've been excluded because of COVID.

[2:52:15] Trustee Fast: You know, people who are summer residences or whatever.

[2:52:20] Trustee Fast: And I'd like to take advantage of all the work that went into the website

[2:52:25] Trustee Fast: website and put in more links to that we've it's just been so much more writing and it seems to me

[2:52:32] Trustee Fast: that the uh website expresses more and better about who the islands trust is and uh so there's

[2:52:39] Trustee Fast: a bunch of work that's already been done and it would be good to bring that into a um i'm i'm

[2:52:45] Trustee Fast: envisioning a mailing uh that would go to everybody and tell them about what the next stage of

[2:52:51] Trustee Fast: engagement is being planned and stay tuned that kind of thing but uh otherwise i don't have

[2:52:56] Trustee Fast: anything more to add at this point thank you okay

[2:53:01] Trustee Luckham: thank you um maybe i'll just make my remarks and

[2:53:05] Trustee Luckham: we're coming up on the lunch time um so maybe there'd be an opportunity to reflect on what

[2:53:11] Trustee Luckham: we've heard from each other at the moment and determine how it is we want to um proceed um over

[2:53:20] Trustee Luckham: the lunch break and then come back and provide that direction. Might want to also just after my

[2:53:26] Trustee Luckham: remarks provide the CEO opportunity just to provide us some reflection on what he's heard

[2:53:33] Trustee Luckham: before we go on. So my thoughts here are I am so very grateful for this really broad revisit

[2:53:44] Trustee Luckham: revisit, coming face-to-face with the timeline, the time of year, the resources we have available

[2:53:52] Trustee Luckham: or the lack of resources we have available, and doing justice to the body of work. This high-level

[2:54:01] Trustee Luckham: document, I like that to characterize it, this high-level document that is not an OCP but is a

[2:54:07] Trustee Luckham: guide principles document from a federation perspective. And want to acknowledge everything

[2:54:12] Trustee Luckham: that we've heard from the public, regardless of how anybody ever learned about this, because

[2:54:19] Trustee Luckham: what people are saying is what they think based upon what they've heard, whether or not they've

[2:54:26] Trustee Luckham: received correct information or not. And their opinions are important. So I think one thing

[2:54:34] Trustee Luckham: that this work, the policy statement, is a document of the executive committee that's

[2:54:42] Trustee Luckham: responsible to manage this and provide recommendations for amendments, et cetera, et cetera.

[2:54:48] Trustee Luckham: But right from the beginning, the Executive Committee and myself acknowledged that we

[2:54:54] Trustee Luckham: needed to engage Trust Programs Committee in this process.

[2:54:57] Trustee Luckham: And so as we go forward in this, although it's at this table and we're in and Council

[2:55:04] Trustee Luckham: has said Executive Committee go away and do this, I do feel some responsibility to at

[2:55:11] Trustee Luckham: at a minimum, engage the chair at some level,

[2:55:16] Trustee Luckham: if not the committee,

[2:55:17] Trustee Luckham: but I fully get and understand the timing

[2:55:20] Trustee Luckham: and the meeting spaces

[2:55:22] Trustee Luckham: and all of that is obviously a problem.

[2:55:27] Trustee Luckham: And of course, this is a, you know,

[2:55:30] Trustee Luckham: it is a big project, a big topic

[2:55:32] Trustee Luckham: that is consuming vast amounts of resources

[2:55:34] Trustee Luckham: of which we don't necessarily have a lot of.

[2:55:46] Trustee Luckham: I'm sorry, that's a page

[2:55:47] Trustee Luckham: which I'm not going to respond to. So, you know, the work to date that has been done has been

[2:55:57] Trustee Luckham: significant. And we both trustees and all of our staff may indeed be satisfied with what we

[2:56:07] Trustee Luckham: have done. But that is from our perspective. And I think that that perspective, that satisfaction

[2:56:15] Trustee Luckham: is not so forthcoming necessarily from others.

[2:56:19] Trustee Luckham: So we need to understand that gap.

[2:56:22] Trustee Luckham: And I support much of what I've heard

[2:56:24] Trustee Luckham: from my colleagues here

[2:56:25] Trustee Luckham: in that bringing in a third party view

[2:56:29] Trustee Luckham: might help us understand the difference

[2:56:33] Trustee Luckham: between our own satisfaction

[2:56:34] Trustee Luckham: and the lack of satisfaction of others.

[2:56:37] Trustee Luckham: I can't help but not address the elephant in the room,

[2:56:41] Trustee Luckham: which was the fact that we never amended the document

[2:56:43] Trustee Luckham: Because it is clear that there are certainly many that feel that the document needs to be amended and indeed many trustees felt that it needed to be amended, and we never got there.

[2:56:55] Trustee Luckham: I will just say I've come to a place where I am satisfied to advance this document to a much broader audience, which is what we've been asked to do, to actually get the full meal deal feedback from everybody in the room, not just those that were lucky enough or fortunate enough or inquisitive enough to find out about it.

[2:57:20] Trustee Luckham: And so I'm actually content with that. But it's obvious that there are some things in there that may be well received and others that are not well received.

[2:57:30] Trustee Luckham: So at the end of the day, it is about the engagement process. And I'm very grateful to Maria Wellman for joining us today and planting that seed.

[2:57:40] Trustee Luckham: it's not that we're we were never aware of it not that staff were ever not aware of it and indeed

[2:57:46] Trustee Luckham: that we have adopted those policies on that spectrum of engagement concept ia2p i think it's

[2:57:54] Trustee Luckham: called but appreciate the suggestion that perhaps we should be looking outside of our own box and

[2:58:00] Trustee Luckham: looking towards places like simon fraser university center for dialogue and obviously others but you

[2:58:08] Trustee Luckham: you know, the obvious thing is, is that the world, along with the Highlands Trust, is all advancing

[2:58:14] Trustee Luckham: towards these big issues and dialogue in their communities. And the obvious thing is, is what

[2:58:21] Trustee Luckham: agency or consultant may be out there that has the capacity to help us at this time,

[2:58:26] Trustee Luckham: in the timeframe that we have. But I'm very much interested in pursuing that and pursuing it at

[2:58:33] Trustee Luckham: At that higher level, academic level even, is probably how I think about that, I want

[2:58:42] Trustee Luckham: to support us moving in that direction.

[2:58:44] Trustee Luckham: I'm in support of another meeting soon to support staff in this process as we move forward

[2:58:51] Trustee Luckham: making some difficult decisions.

[2:58:55] Trustee Luckham: I would just remark that I think one of the things here that comes back to me, comes back

[2:59:02] Trustee Luckham: full circle to that we may be satisfied with what we've been doing but others may not be so

[2:59:07] Trustee Luckham: satisfied and part of I think what we've I've been talking about is that we need to consider

[2:59:12] Trustee Luckham: the language that we use and the way we approach this and maybe a third party can assist us with

[2:59:18] Trustee Luckham: that language and that approach but I recognize that the deadlines that have been given to us

[2:59:25] Trustee Luckham: by council and simply the fact that we only meet quarterly and the and that our the meetings are

[2:59:31] Trustee Luckham: already scheduled and we need to kind of fit this into that so that we can keep this ball rolling

[2:59:36] Trustee Luckham: without undue delay um but you know certainly we want to reflect that there's no hurry to do this

[2:59:43] Trustee Luckham: right but we should work as efficiently as possible which is why i think there needs to

[2:59:47] Trustee Luckham: be another meeting and on that efficiency note i can't help but want to and i might be wrong

[2:59:53] Trustee Luckham: but explore possibilities of starting some kind of a conversation.

[3:00:00] Trustee Luckham: introductory conversation with uh that works within our procurement process etc etc that

[3:00:09] Trustee Luckham: opens up some potential conversations with places like the center for sfu center for dialogue and

[3:00:15] Trustee Luckham: others that whether or not we can get some expression of interest in that there may be

[3:00:20] Trustee Luckham: those that would be very much interested in in helping us and working with us to advance this

[3:00:27] Trustee Luckham: important work, the importance of it remains no matter what the perspective is and I'm

[3:00:35] Trustee Luckham: often pleased to see people that may have dissenting viewpoints on things to also recognize

[3:00:42] Trustee Luckham: the importance of the work.

[3:00:44] Trustee Luckham: So I want to think about how we can advance this in ways to relieve staff in some respects

[3:00:52] Trustee Luckham: from the tremendous amount of work that this is because I think it's also obvious to all of us

[3:00:59] Trustee Luckham: that other aspects of the Allen's Trust the day-to-day work is suffering from a lack of

[3:01:05] Trustee Luckham: resources and I might be wrong about that correct me if I'm wrong CAO Hudson-Piller

[3:01:11] Trustee Luckham: anyway those are my remarks I would look forward to looking at how we can open up the box a bit

[3:01:17] Trustee Luckham: and indeed if we need another meeting let's have it so CAO Hudson-Piller I'll give you the chance

[3:01:22] Trustee Luckham: to say the final thing and then i would suggest we go for lunch thanks

[3:01:25] Voice 7: mr chair um yeah so so far

[3:01:29] Voice 7: in the conversation i'm going to humbly suggest you ask for too much um i i don't think we're

[3:01:36] Voice 7: going to be going back in time to do a re-education process for everyone in the trust around um

[3:01:41] Voice 7: the islands trust we're halfway through this process but i do think some of the core pieces

[3:01:47] Voice 7: that you're identifying can be addressed.

[3:01:50] Voice 7: I don't think we can do deliberative dialogue

[3:01:52] Voice 7: across the whole island's trust.

[3:01:55] Voice 7: Even the expert who was on today

[3:01:58] Voice 7: said it's an issue-based discussion

[3:02:00] Voice 7: of which I've been a part of in my career several times.

[3:02:04] Voice 7: Let's take one issue on one night on one island

[3:02:07] Voice 7: and amplify that across 13 times

[3:02:12] Voice 7: returning two or three times to each community

[3:02:14] Voice 7: to get the full breadth

[3:02:17] Voice 7: of what the policy statement document talks about.

[3:02:20] Voice 7: Now, I do think it might work on Salt Spring Island

[3:02:22] Voice 7: and I do think it could work on North Pender

[3:02:25] Voice 7: and I do think getting some third-party advice

[3:02:28] Voice 7: on how to do that well would be appropriate

[3:02:32] Voice 7: because the communities have not said

[3:02:37] Voice 7: it's not the depth of communication we haven't engaged.

[3:02:40] Voice 7: They're saying you haven't engaged at all

[3:02:43] Voice 7: in some people's view.

[3:02:45] Voice 7: So if we engage at different stages

[3:02:49] Voice 7: or at different levels of depth,

[3:02:52] Voice 7: I think we can get close to satisfying what is needed.

[3:02:56] Voice 7: So I'm concerned that you may pass some direction

[3:02:59] Voice 7: that says, go do this thing for everywhere.

[3:03:04] Voice 7: And I humbly don't think

[3:03:07] Voice 7: that's going to be our way forward.

[3:03:09] Voice 7: I do think some third-party strategic advice

[3:03:12] Voice 7: is an excellent suggestion i do think the notion of getting a common document out there that

[3:03:17] Voice 7: contextualizes the policy statement what it is a bid on the islands trust and then the key questions

[3:03:22] Voice 7: that are being asked whether you call it a discussion guide or not a common piece i think

[3:03:26] Voice 7: that's also a really strong idea um and allowing for different prescriptions in different regions

[3:03:34] Voice 7: i also think we should think about a two-tier approach and what i mean by that is while we

[3:03:40] Voice 7: are hemmed in by forthcoming decisions of trust council we could be doing some work of getting

[3:03:48] Voice 7: trustees information such that they could hold sessions one-on-one or with groups themselves

[3:03:53] Voice 7: and they could have a package that they have conversations and feed that information back

[3:03:58] Voice 7: if they want to on island so we could be doing that that constant approach and for some people

[3:04:05] Voice 7: that will be exactly what they want they had a chance to come out and discuss it so i think we

[3:04:10] Voice 7: We can build that piece in as well.

[3:04:15] Voice 7: That's about it for now.

[3:04:17] Voice 7: I expect I'm going to recommend that you have a meeting on September 1st or somewhere around there, a subsequent EC meeting.

[3:04:26] Voice 7: It's going to be no good to have one on the 11th.

[3:04:29] Voice 7: We would only be giving you an update on the 18th.

[3:04:33] Voice 7: our goal is that there is an engagement plan that's approved somewhere between the 21st and

[3:04:39] Voice 7: the 23rd of September and that you recommend one and you will be doing that on the 8th so between

[3:04:50] Voice 7: we don't have enough people in the offices now to to to get something for you in the next week or two

[3:04:56] Voice 7: but I think somewhere later on today discussion around when you'd want to see um this and some

[3:05:02] Voice 7: and around that time frame would be helpful.

[3:05:08] Voice 7: And indeed, I'm hearing indications of two things.

[3:05:12] Voice 7: One, we don't have enough staff to go out and do a barnstorm

[3:05:15] Voice 7: all across the trust area, so we're going to need some third-party doers.

[3:05:19] Voice 7: And I'm also hearing some third-party planners or some strategic advice.

[3:05:26] Voice 7: And I suggest that we discuss that a little bit more

[3:05:28] Voice 7: over the course of the day.

[3:05:31] Voice 7: and frank my last thing is it would be great if you as vice chairs could today if you know speak

[3:05:38] Voice 7: about the islands you represent and how you kind of any feedback you've got or recommendations for

[3:05:44] Voice 7: your islands um you know we've heard how main's doing it or some of the commentary it'd be great

[3:05:50] Voice 7: to hear what's going on on salt spring what would be helpful on salt spring based on what you know

[3:05:54] Voice 7: so far um and any of the other areas and that will help inform this um this process as we try

[3:06:00] Voice 7: and use these funds in the appropriate way so those are my initial comments mr chair um forgive

[3:06:07] Voice 7: me if they're too direct no

[3:06:09] Trustee Luckham: that's uh we need uh we need to hear that direct comments in order to

[3:06:15] Trustee Luckham: focus ourselves so thank you so let's go for a break let's come back at 12 30 and um and then

[3:06:22] Trustee Luckham: let's provide some direction to staff and have some more conversation thanks everybody thanks

[3:06:29] Voice 4: thanks what time are we coming back uh 12 30 that's

[3:06:43] Trustee Rogers: 20 minutes from now okay

[3:06:45] Trustee Luckham: well 24 minutes

[3:06:47] Trustee Luckham: yeah is that okay sure

[3:06:53] Voice 4: thanks dan trustee

[3:29:24] Voice 7: patrick how did the uh the task force meeting go with the

[3:29:28] Voice 7: with alissa can't hear you oh there you go let

[3:29:40] Trustee Patrick: me i'll probably i can talk offline with you on that

[3:29:43] Trustee Patrick: that one.

[3:29:44] Voice 4: Yeah. Okay.

[3:30:50] Voice 8: Okay. Hello, everyone.

[3:30:54] Trustee Luckham: I hope you had enough time to have a bit of lunch. I'm sorry if we didn't leave enough time. You've got a new background there, Trustee Fast.

[3:31:10] Voice 10: Okay. Is the CAO with us?

[3:31:19] Voice 7: Yes, I am.

[3:31:19] Voice 7: Thank you, sir.

[3:31:23] Trustee Luckham: I guess my, so I want to acknowledge that we're returning from our break here at the Executive Committee meeting of July 21st, and acknowledge that we're working in Coast Salish Territory, broadly across the Salish Sea, and grateful for that opportunity.

[3:31:44] Trustee Luckham: opportunity um we're on um we're on uh 8.9.1.2.1 of our agenda on page 46 and uh we've had a bit

[3:32:01] Trustee Luckham: of a round table uh opportunity here at this point and uh perhaps i

[3:32:06] Trustee Rogers: don't know if you know

[3:32:07] Trustee Rogers: but your camera is not on oh

[3:32:10] Trustee Luckham: i didn't know that thank you dan um there we go i was oh

[3:32:18] Trustee Luckham: Oh, isn't that interesting, keep shutting off.

[3:32:23] Trustee Luckham: Too much mousing around.

[3:32:26] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so perhaps over the break,

[3:32:30] Trustee Luckham: there were some questions that developed in vice chairs.

[3:32:35] Trustee Luckham: I certainly have one question and vice chairs,

[3:32:38] Trustee Luckham: do you have any questions at this point

[3:32:40] Trustee Luckham: or want to move into discussion further, Trustee Patrick?

[3:32:44] Trustee Patrick: Oh, sorry, I guess no questions.

[3:32:46] Trustee Patrick: So I guess more discussion.

[3:32:48] Trustee Patrick: discussion.

[3:32:49] Trustee Luckham: Okay. There's nothing, no other questions. And maybe I'll just ask my question

[3:32:55] Trustee Luckham: to kind of maybe frame the discussion, especially around what I was thinking about how it is that

[3:33:02] Trustee Luckham: we might, you know, under the limited resources and timing and everything else and in preparation

[3:33:09] Trustee Luckham: of the meeting, I think you said September the 1st, how we might do some initial, do you perceive

[3:33:18] Trustee Luckham: us doing some initial uh reach out to other agencies that may be able to assist us and how

[3:33:26] Trustee Luckham: we might do that in a parallel stream do you see that as viable in some way or another to uh solicit

[3:33:33] Trustee Luckham: this uh outside uh assistance and support for staff and in developing um the work that we need

[3:33:42] Trustee Luckham: to do is

[3:33:47] Voice 7: that to me mr chair or to the group oh

[3:33:49] Trustee Luckham: yes yes sir oh

[3:33:51] Voice 7: so yeah given that the timing we've

[3:33:54] Voice 7: got by september 8th in your hands you would need to have an engagement plan um so that is five

[3:34:02] Voice 7: weeks away so um whether or not we can contract no matter how quickly um an agency to um i think

[3:34:17] Voice 7: we can get some consulting advice that will help us with some planning and that we would leave this

[3:34:23] Voice 7: meeting in our follow-up meeting tomorrow with um looking at a strategy on how to get that as

[3:34:28] Voice 7: quickly as possible um because our first

[3:34:31] Voice 7: goal is is to get that plan okay

[3:34:35] Trustee Luckham: i think that answers the

[3:34:36] Trustee Luckham: question and that um i don't anticipate that we would be engaging a consultant at this time

[3:34:41] Trustee Luckham: But we might have an idea of the direction that we would be taking with respect to engaging a consultant at that September window.

[3:34:53] Voice 7: Well, no, what I'm what I'm saying is, is I think that you and maybe David can help me out.

[3:34:58] Voice 7: I, I think Trust Council wants to approve an engagement plan in September.

[3:35:03] Voice 4: September

[3:35:04] Voice 7: and so by the 8th of September you have to we have to have something in front of them

[3:35:10] Voice 7: that describes what that is unless we significantly back up the process and have them do that in

[3:35:17] Voice 7: December etc etc but we're going to find ourselves backing ourselves all the way out um or too far

[3:35:24] Voice 7: out um and moving back 18 months so so that I think the first matter to deal with is how to get

[3:35:31] Voice 7: that um some assistance in between now and to inform some key elements as part of an engagement

[3:35:41] Voice 7: process that would follow after the september trust council meeting when they release their

[3:35:45] Voice 7: funds and david i'll turn it over to you to follow up from

[3:35:48] Trustee Luckham: okay yeah you've

[3:35:49] Trustee Luckham: answered my you've

[3:35:50] Trustee Luckham: answered my question so that's good um go ahead

[3:35:54] Trustee Luckham: david and then we'll go to trustee patrick yeah

[3:35:56] Voice 2: Yeah, I just wanted to just draw attention to Resolution 5 in the way that's worded.

[3:36:02] Voice 2: It talks about the project charter.

[3:36:05] Voice 2: So I'm not clear if we can spend anything until after Council's approved the project charter.

[3:36:11] Voice 2: So that's all I wanted to raise.

[3:36:13] Voice 2: So $75,000 would then be subject to that.

[3:36:17] Voice 2: But there is a $20,000 that is currently available that is not subject to that.

[3:36:25] Trustee Luckham: Yep, understood. Trustee Patrick?

[3:36:27] Trustee Luckham: i

[3:36:29] Trustee Patrick: would hope we can interpret that we have you know getting advice to help prepare the

[3:36:35] Trustee Patrick: engagement plan is not something that we would need further uh permission for um i just wanted

[3:36:43] Trustee Patrick: to clarify that i'm not talking about going backwards and i don't think any of us want to

[3:36:48] Trustee Patrick: talk about going backwards and i think again i mine this uh this burnaby discussion guide just

[3:36:55] Trustee Patrick: because i i i mine it for you can put your whatever questions you're at they did exactly

[3:37:02] Trustee Patrick: the same process that we've gone under they they did a they did go out and they surveyed and they

[3:37:08] Trustee Patrick: did that and they created a what we heard document which we did too um but what we did was we took

[3:37:15] Trustee Patrick: the what we heard document for and we went to the to the draft policy statement where they took some

[3:37:21] Trustee Patrick: of the decision points that needed to be made and went into the deliberative dialogue process there

[3:37:27] Trustee Patrick: that's the fundamental difference and i think if there's any if there's any backing up there's

[3:37:32] Trustee Patrick: just to that point of of and and i think that's where the the discussion guide type concept is

[3:37:39] Trustee Patrick: useful because it's it's framing those questions those ideas those thoughts that we had that we

[3:37:44] Trustee Patrick: that we decided on and this is where i like followed the agricultural dots back

[3:37:49] Trustee Patrick: that you know 31 people had commented on agriculture and we you know we we we took

[3:37:56] Trustee Patrick: some language from from that and you know now we have the farm community you know having some

[3:38:03] Trustee Patrick: loud thoughts about about those decisions that we we made um the the other issue that gets

[3:38:14] Trustee Patrick: complicated is i i'd almost i think deliberative dialogue i think we're thinking of you know i

[3:38:21] Trustee Patrick: I think Mari had pointed out a very type of workshop type thing, but whether it's, I think

[3:38:26] Trustee Patrick: that's a form of deliberative dialogue, a workshop, a form of deliberative dialogue is a trustee on a

[3:38:32] Trustee Patrick: small island leading a conversation too. So where I'm getting at is we don't want to give the

[3:38:40] Trustee Patrick: perception that the different islands are having different processes that they're then going to pit

[3:38:46] Trustee Patrick: hit island against island when we make our final decisions again. And that's the complicated piece

[3:38:52] Trustee Patrick: of how, you know, because it makes it really hard for me. I can't have an authentic conversation

[3:38:58] Trustee Patrick: with, with Salt Springers when I'm like, well, you know,

[3:39:00] Trustee Patrick: you might make a good decision here, but

[3:39:04] Trustee Patrick: you know, you might get, I'm going to get outvoted at trust council and we'll lose that,

[3:39:09] Trustee Patrick: that momentum. So people need to feel that they're engaging in this overall trust area

[3:39:15] Trustee Patrick: area conversation and it's you know like I said it's hard and that's why we really got to frame

[3:39:19] Trustee Patrick: that conversation well and so that I'm leading the same kind of conversation here that you know

[3:39:26] Trustee Patrick: someone's leading on an island that has a population of 200 that we're at least framing

[3:39:32] Trustee Patrick: the conversation in similar ways and that the outcome is kind of working toward something so

[3:39:40] Trustee Patrick: that it's not again pitting like people against people because that's what we want to avoid

[3:39:44] Trustee Patrick: Okay,

[3:39:49] Trustee Luckham: thank you. Any other remarks, discussion, Trustee Rogers?

[3:40:01] Trustee Rogers: So, you know, I'm going to make an observation and ask a question. I do feel like this is the

[3:40:11] Trustee Rogers: long way out of my skill set. And it feels to some ways like it's a long way into decisions

[3:40:25] Trustee Rogers: decisions that would normally be made by staff as opposed to elected officials.

[3:40:32] Trustee Rogers: But having said that, this is where we are because this has become both a very real political process

[3:40:42] Trustee Rogers: and a very real administrative slash management process.

[3:40:48] Trustee Rogers: So it's hard.

[3:40:49] Trustee Rogers: So they're mixed together in my mind anyway.

[3:40:52] Trustee Rogers: So my question is a very practical one, at least for me, is I'd like to know how we go about, like the practical ways that we go about getting some outside expertise to assist us in a timeframe that makes some sense in relation to what we're talking about here.

[3:41:21] Trustee Rogers: You're talking about an engagement plan ready for the EC on September 8th. We're talking about that would have some substance to it beyond just, I hope, would have some substance beyond just, we'd have to know what resources were available to us and what we could do.

[3:41:48] Trustee Rogers: do i i will say that you're right david that that motion was drafted specifically because i was

[3:41:55] Trustee Rogers: afraid it might frankly i was concerned it might fail if it didn't have the oversight of the trust

[3:42:02] Trustee Rogers: council um that they had the ultimate ability to approve the strategy strategy and i wanted

[3:42:10] Trustee Rogers: to see that it didn't fail. And I agree with you that the existing funds that are in our budget are

[3:42:20] Trustee Rogers: not subject to this final approval. This is the additional money. And I made that point to the

[3:42:27] Trustee Rogers: Director of Trust Area Services the next day and said, you should know you can go and utilize the

[3:42:32] Trustee Rogers: money that's already done in the ways that you need to do in the interim while we finalize this.

[3:42:39] Trustee Rogers: but my question I guess my question is what process do we have to go through so that we could

[3:42:46] Trustee Rogers: know have some options of of who might be out there like if we talk to the let's take the

[3:42:53] Trustee Rogers: center for an example but there are I get emails all the time from groups that are doing this kind

[3:42:58] Trustee Rogers: of consultation and holding seminars on how to do it etc etc and I don't often go to those

[3:43:05] Trustee Rogers: but there I know there's groups out there that do these things plus there's a whole realm of

[3:43:10] Trustee Rogers: consultants that do this kind of thing is how do we how do we get some narrowing down of what's

[3:43:17] Trustee Rogers: available and what what's on offer for us in that time frame so that we can make some specific

[3:43:24] Trustee Rogers: decisions in the next little while that's my practical question I

[3:43:31] Voice 7: can answer that question

[3:43:32] Voice 7: question. Do you want to try it first, David?

[3:43:36] Voice 2: Sure. Just information from Julia, actually.

[3:43:42] Voice 2: We can use the Ministry's pre-qualified vendor list for consultants. So we're looking, Julia's

[3:43:49] Voice 2: having a look to see what's available there. And then we can do ITQs to find out who's

[3:43:55] Voice 2: interested, what's out there. We can direct award under a certain amount and the CEO has

[3:44:00] Voice 2: has the ability to direct a wide over in certain situations.

[3:44:04] Voice 2: And that's based on council's policy.

[3:44:06] Voice 2: So I think it's quite a lot that we can do fairly quickly.

[3:44:10] Voice 7: So, yeah.

[3:44:10] Voice 7: So the quickest version, because you can see,

[3:44:13] Voice 7: and I'm thankful for the acknowledgement of not just the challenges of

[3:44:18] Voice 7: community consultation,

[3:44:20] Voice 7: but the boundaries that have been put around us by this decision-making

[3:44:25] Voice 7: that's making it challenging to deliver that.

[3:44:28] Voice 7: and so we're working sort of with two two issues in an ideal world trust council would have said

[3:44:35] Voice 7: develop an engagement plan for this force this portion of the work and get on with it and here's

[3:44:42] Voice 7: the money to to do that and my i am slightly fearful that there will be a a deep discussion

[3:44:50] Voice 7: around engagement planning at trust council by the trust council as a whole and that would be

[3:44:57] Voice 7: late in the process to significantly alter things because I think people want simple,

[3:45:02] Voice 7: effective community consultation, which we are capable of delivering. Right now, I can name

[3:45:09] Voice 7: four or five different agencies or consultants that work on this kind of thing. So I don't think

[3:45:14] Voice 7: we're going to have a problem finding someone who can give us advice on developing a strategy.

[3:45:24] Voice 7: So essentially, not delivering the engagement plan, but helping us structure one. And I have the ability to do some direct awards. I also have some minor discretionary funds that I could bring to the table to, I think, to augment, you know, and this would be on my, I take responsibility for maybe releasing some of those funds.

[3:45:47] Voice 7: I've actually asked Julia to dig into what discretion I've got there to help us go out.

[3:45:56] Voice 7: So we'd maybe pick a couple of firms or pick a firm we know, because we can't, we're too constrained by time, money and other things to do everything as completely is not the right word, but I'll use it for now as we may.

[3:46:18] Voice 7: so we may have to get to some advice quicker and so we'd leave this meeting we're going to talk

[3:46:24] Voice 7: over the end of the week we'd look at a couple of firms we'd maybe um establish some of the what

[3:46:30] Voice 7: are the some of the key parameters that we want to encourage and that's what we're hoping to get

[3:46:33] Voice 7: from you you know we're hearing some of those themes a booklet um that describes um you know

[3:46:40] Voice 7: some ideas around process we'd have to describe to somebody the difference between the ltcs and

[3:46:45] Voice 7: what to keep calm and whatnot and that to to help us have that conversation and come back

[3:46:52] Voice 7: with some engagement strategy which i don't think has to be complicated i don't think the actual

[3:46:57] Voice 7: i mean i don't think the actual engagement has to be complicated um in and of itself but it is

[3:47:05] Voice 7: complicated to figure it out and and get it on the ground okay

[3:47:14] Trustee Luckham: thank you um trust you patrick

[3:47:24] Trustee Patrick: yeah i mean it's not i i yes advice needs to be done you know we don't want anything to be

[3:47:33] Trustee Patrick: complicated it's an overly especially uh some sort of a the the guidance material that's created

[3:47:40] Trustee Patrick: is it's really an opportunity to simplify it um would would it be the same potentially could it

[3:47:52] Trustee Patrick: it be the same consultant that could do both provide the advice on the engagement process

[3:47:58] Trustee Patrick: forward and also assist in developing this guide because i think having outside language

[3:48:03] Trustee Patrick: outside eyes someone who's not you know we speak a language inside islands trust we have to admit

[3:48:09] Trustee Patrick: it we speak islands trustees um you know having i think this guidance document has to be written

[3:48:16] Trustee Patrick: you know for an islander to understand um but the overall i i know at the end of the day trustees

[3:48:25] Trustee Patrick: have to make a decision to approve a policy statement that's the ultimate where we're going

[3:48:28] Trustee Patrick: to end up but we're going to be so far better off if we have more people on the islands that

[3:48:35] Trustee Patrick: you know are with it you know because this is we're we're trying to to respond to climate change

[3:48:43] Trustee Patrick: We're trying to bring the community along on reconciliation. We're trying to be aware of the impacts of our decisions on housing and equity and these things. So the more people that are with us, it's just going to make our jobs so much easier going forward.

[3:49:04] Trustee Patrick: so that's really the goal i see this next phase of engagement is doing is just getting more people

[3:49:11] Trustee Patrick: aligned with the decisions that are there and feel that they participated they're part of it

[3:49:16] Trustee Patrick: they live here okay

[3:49:25] Trustee Luckham: um anybody else with a hand up otherwise cao um

[3:49:36] Trustee Luckham: what is the direction that you uh idea what do you how do you see this unfolding from this meeting

[3:49:42] Trustee Luckham: today so that we can provide you with the direction that is going to be the most helpful

[3:49:47] Trustee Luckham: to get us where I think we agree where we need to be. I think there's some consensus about

[3:49:54] Trustee Luckham: getting to this September meeting.

[3:49:56] Voice 7: Right. So I think this has been beneficial because we now

[3:50:00] Voice 7: realize the constraints that we're operating in and the potential opportunities that exist.

[3:50:08] Voice 7: I've already heard two or three things that are going to be helpful as we work this.

[3:50:14] Voice 7: You can't do much right now, to be quite honest, because you don't have a lot of funding to direct us to do something with.

[3:50:22] Voice 7: And in fact, you do have an RFD coming up in a couple of minutes that's going to allocate some of that funding.

[3:50:29] Voice 7: But the key things that you're saying that you want to see out of this process, we've heard a couple of those.

[3:50:36] Voice 7: as much of that that you can provide that you think are key things that we have to move forward

[3:50:41] Voice 7: with and build into the engagement process um because you're um you sit close to the communities

[3:50:47] Voice 7: the better um and like i said if you have any particular island insights what you think

[3:50:53] Voice 7: might work or might not work um that's that's also um um good advice you don't have to make

[3:51:00] Voice 7: a recommendation to us this is our number one thing we're doing um you know um we

[3:51:08] Voice 7: you could direct to get third-party advice but we're moving along those lines anyway um we we

[3:51:15] Voice 7: need it from a capacity point of view um delivery is going to be another matter so when i return to

[3:51:20] Voice 7: trustee patrick's question could they be harmonized and be the same agency i mean if they

[3:51:25] Voice 7: could. Our first consideration is to get an engagement plan together. That's goal number

[3:51:35] Voice 7: one. And goal number two is to deliver it. And a discussion paper or document would be part of

[3:51:43] Voice 7: that. And that would be coming after September 20, whatever it is after the trust council meeting.

[3:51:49] Voice 7: So that's going to be part two. Part one is getting the advice to help us build the engagement

[3:51:55] Voice 7: plant so any of those key themes that you think and you've said a few of them um that can help us

[3:52:00] Voice 7: as we do this work over the next couple of weeks would be really helpful trustee

[3:52:07] Trustee Luckham: patrick my one

[3:52:09] Trustee Patrick: concern is that the the the train is moving down the track uh the people in the community are having

[3:52:16] Trustee Patrick: the conversations trustees are meeting with people so the conversations are already starting and if

[3:52:23] Trustee Patrick: If they're, you know, I don't know what they're all based on, you know, someone sitting under a tree having a chat, you know, what are they basing their conversation on?

[3:52:34] Trustee Patrick: And I think there's, you know, from what I'm picking up on is there's some misunderstandings of some of the concepts and so forth that are out there.

[3:52:42] Trustee Patrick: So the longer this train travels down the track, the more either misinformation that's going to spread, the potential that this thing is heading off in all these odd directions when we want it to go in a very particular one.

[3:53:00] Trustee Patrick: So that's my concern is just that we have a horse and cart issue, but framing this conversation is pretty important.

[3:53:13] Voice 7: Thank you. That's a good overall notion, but it just increases pressure on one of the things we have less of, which is time or money. So if there's any specific ideas around how to lessen that concern, which one I share, then that would be great.

[3:53:33] Voice 7: But it's, like I said before, we have the challenges of actually engaging, but then we have the manufactured constraints of time and money associated with doing that.

[3:53:46] Voice 7: So we either stretch this out and start to really engage, as has been directed by council in late September, early October, and everyone takes a pause through the end of the summer.

[3:53:58] Voice 7: or we do um and what i think when i was saying that two-part plan or two-tier plan is to begin

[3:54:05] Voice 7: some um some i don't call it low level i call it consistent level low cost engagement um

[3:54:13] Voice 7: you know reformulating framing the discussion a little bit more getting those kinds of things

[3:54:18] Voice 7: on the website um you know stuff that the staff can do to start to edge this in the right way to

[3:54:24] Voice 7: get people get people an opportunity no matter where they are in the trust to write in so i think

[3:54:29] Voice 7: that that could be a constant piece that we we start doing relatively soon but the more enhanced

[3:54:34] Voice 7: professional external piece is going to be in the time frames we've outlined uh

[3:54:44] Trustee Luckham: i see two hands up

[3:54:46] Trustee Luckham: here now trustee fast trustee rogers okay

[3:54:49] Trustee Fast: well i'll be brief i just um thanks everybody's drawing

[3:54:53] Trustee Fast: this picture uh closer together for me i like what i'm hearing ross about the uh low cost consistent

[3:55:00] Trustee Fast: consistent it's out there if people the invitation to be involved and to uh um uh provide input

[3:55:09] Trustee Fast: and which i respect i think that's great and and i um uh i like that idea as one phase of it as one

[3:55:17] Trustee Fast: i should say part of it and then um what happens through the engagement plan later i agree it could

[3:55:25] Trustee Fast: be quite different it's probably going to be quite different from bowen to gambier to salt

[3:55:29] Trustee Fast: spring and you know i'll i'll just chip in my two little bits here i think uh uh hornby wants to

[3:55:36] Trustee Fast: meet in person i don't think necessarily around this issue necessarily but they do like meeting

[3:55:43] Trustee Fast: in person however they also say and we want to have uh zoom or whatever it was they still want

[3:55:50] Trustee Fast: that capability now in their um in their meetings so i think it's quite open for hornby and i suspect

[3:55:56] Trustee Fast: back this is similar for denman and i can't really speak to them because i don't live there

[3:56:01] Trustee Fast: uh david sorry i see david's hand came up urgently no okay not urgent

[3:56:09] Voice 2: i'll take my turn thank you

[3:56:11] Trustee Fast: okay and then um uh bowen i think uh staff will be working with staff i'm not sure how much

[3:56:19] Trustee Fast: or uh what people will be expecting in the community usually um trustee kale and i come

[3:56:27] Trustee Fast: from completely different perspectives and people engage with either one of us or the other so this

[3:56:33] Trustee Fast: is where i think that having the uh the consistent low-cost um engagement ongoing would be really

[3:56:42] Trustee Fast: helpful to refer people to that's all i don't know if that's helpful yeah

[3:56:50] Trustee Luckham: that's helpful

[3:56:51] Trustee Fast: um

[3:56:53] Trustee Luckham: dan rogers

[3:56:57] Trustee Rogers: and i'm trying to just i'm trying to respond to the cao's request for and and anyway it's it's a

[3:57:07] Trustee Rogers: bit like a lot of things it's an amorphous issue so it goes in many directions at the same time

[3:57:15] Trustee Rogers: um i'm mindful of the fact that you know even if we try continue on our path to give first reading

[3:57:24] Trustee Rogers: on in december and i say if because of the other consideration about march that has arisen

[3:57:31] Trustee Rogers: um that's not the doesn't mean that's the end of the engagement process because you remember

[3:57:38] Trustee Rogers: our whole our whole discussion was oh right the engagement actually starts after first reading

[3:57:44] Trustee Rogers: um i mean at least that was the original plan right and now we're at a stage where we're trying

[3:57:50] Trustee Rogers: to do it before we give it first reading, but it's clearly not the end of the engagement process

[3:57:57] Trustee Rogers: necessarily. So that any plan that we develop, while it may be focused in the period leading

[3:58:03] Trustee Rogers: up to first reading, given the dynamic that has unfolded here, would not necessarily end after

[3:58:09] Trustee Rogers: that, would not end after that, in fact. The second thing I'm thinking about is, I haven't

[3:58:18] Trustee Rogers: heard the CAO I've heard the director talk but I and I assume the CAO of their sort of talk when I

[3:58:24] Trustee Rogers: hear one that they've sort of talked us through but I don't know your view CAO about about the

[3:58:30] Trustee Rogers: idea of of first reading actually maybe moving to March instead of December because I've heard

[3:58:38] Trustee Rogers: you say a couple times you're you're working under restrictions regarding time and money

[3:58:43] Trustee Rogers: And frankly, I'd like to remove some of those restrictions from you so that we can do this correctly.

[3:58:51] Trustee Rogers: Because one of the things I'm going to say as we get to the end is I'm going to encourage you to come back and say, no, no, what we, you know, what 75 grand ain't going to cut it.

[3:59:00] Trustee Rogers: We need

[3:59:00] Trustee Rogers: 125 or whatever it is so that we can go back to trust council and say, look, this is what we really need to do this right.

[3:59:08] Trustee Rogers: Right. So I'd like to find a way for you to be relieved of some of those restrictions,

[3:59:16] Trustee Rogers: but I haven't heard you opine about how this project will be affected if we actually went back to Trust Council

[3:59:25] Trustee Rogers: and recommended that, look, we want to bring this back in a form that you guys hopefully will be able to adopt

[3:59:32] Trustee Rogers: as first reading in March rather than December.

[3:59:34] Trustee Rogers: Thank

[3:59:36] Voice 7: you for that. I think that the most natural process would lead to that conclusion, meaning airtime for people to be involved, the ability to customize engagement to the degree that different islands want it.

[3:59:53] Voice 7: And why I say that is that I think you agree some islands might be.

[4:00:00] Voice 7: single issue right that like there might be an issue that really is at the heart because there's

[4:00:06] Voice 7: only so many policies that have changed in the policy statement it is not a complete rewrite of

[4:00:12] Voice 7: core policies that's going to fundamentally affect everybody there but there are some significant

[4:00:17] Voice 7: policies in there so we can pick a couple and we've already heard that on some islands that

[4:00:22] Voice 7: you know maybe docks on other islands agriculture that will take up that conversation will be the

[4:00:30] Voice 7: conversation of that island so that the extended time frame would allow us to breathe into that

[4:00:37] Voice 7: space and have those conversations as well as the sort of omnibus you know the direction of the

[4:00:41] Voice 7: policy statement process as a whole what it does is it pushes it back into the election cycle

[4:00:47] Voice 7: so what that means is you rarely try and undertake a large initiative so that it coincides exactly

[4:00:55] Voice 7: exactly you allow the current body to make its decision and have it not get into the next cycle

[4:01:04] Voice 7: it's just a matter of public process some projects are longer so the more we do that the more that

[4:01:11] Voice 7: is is going to be the case and that's not the end of the world by any stretch the other thing I'll

[4:01:16] Voice 7: point out is that we have engaged with First Nations they have taken some time and work with

[4:01:21] Voice 7: us. They know this trust council and you've done most of the work on reconciliation to move the

[4:01:27] Voice 7: organization forward. That's natural that they have communicated an interest in, wow, some of

[4:01:34] Voice 7: those ideas are great. It'd be great to land them. So, and for you to take ownership as a group and

[4:01:41] Voice 7: not to have it be redone again. So, you know, that's the other part of the consideration. So

[4:01:52] Voice 7: So I don't think March is, and it will not, it would be naturally a better process, I

[4:01:59] Voice 7: think, in terms of length and breadth.

[4:02:01] Voice 7: I think the consultation, once we get into it, is not going to, I think community, there's

[4:02:06] Voice 7: only so much room in the policy statement for the community to, it's not an OCP, which

[4:02:11] Voice 7: has tremendous detail and is actually landed on the earth in a significant way.

[4:02:18] Voice 7: The policy statement still remains a policy document that lives above.

[4:02:21] Voice 7: And I find that once we're out in community at a couple of times,

[4:02:24] Voice 7: people will probably naturally realize that there's only so many ag policies

[4:02:29] Voice 7: in the policy statement. There's four of them, right?

[4:02:31] Voice 7: So how much will they change?

[4:02:33] Voice 7: We'll dial them up or dial them down based on the, on the input.

[4:02:37] Voice 7: So there's my opining on, on that process, on the, on that process.

[4:02:43] Voice 7: March would be fine, but then it becomes more of a,

[4:02:48] Voice 7: an extended process. Oh, the last part is essentially,

[4:02:52] Voice 7: Potentially, we are swapping the robust engagement that was planned post-first reading for now.

[4:03:01] Voice 7: So there will be re-engagement after first, but the more you consult, the less you have to consult about, right?

[4:03:07] Voice 7: So if we do a good job in this first part, then after first, I think there might be less,

[4:03:13] Voice 7: and it'll be trust counsel then have the confidence to say, we've heard over three years,

[4:03:19] Voice 7: lots of commentary, it's time for us to make a decision to do it or not do it.

[4:03:23] Voice 7: So it'll be less between first, second, and third, hopefully, if it's done well, then

[4:03:28] Voice 7: there would have been this way, which was if we'd gotten first and then had the extensive

[4:03:33] Voice 7: public process and amended it a lot between first and second.

[4:03:37] Voice 7: Hopefully, there'll be less amendments between first and second.

[4:03:41] Trustee Rogers: So I just want to follow up on one thing.

[4:03:43] Trustee Rogers: I think, thank you for your views about March, and we've heard the director, and I mean,

[4:03:49] Trustee Rogers: I'm starting to come around, and I'm actually thinking that that might be a good recommendation to the Trust Council.

[4:03:55] Trustee Rogers: However, I wouldn't want to carry that discussion any further without discussing it with the Chair of the Trust Programs Committee,

[4:04:03] Trustee Rogers: because she's been intimately involved in designing the timeframe of this.

[4:04:09] Trustee Rogers: And not just her, but the whole committee, but particularly Chair Morrison.

[4:04:14] Trustee Rogers: Morrison so the

[4:04:15] Voice 7: one thing I regret a bit is that we're in a reactionary process now so then you

[4:04:20] Voice 7: know the first solution becomes the solution and you know December you know let's not have first

[4:04:26] Voice 7: and let's delay it so then it went to December but indeed March might have been just as good a

[4:04:31] Voice 7: an outcome to give everyone a little break here and to get the the input that's needed because

[4:04:37] Voice 7: Because, you know, we tried to get a ton of public interest there.

[4:04:42] Voice 7: 1,400 people is quite a few people.

[4:04:45] Voice 7: But until this happened, we just didn't have that traction with the community.

[4:04:52] Voice 7: And now we do.

[4:04:53] Voice 7: Right.

[4:04:58] Trustee Rogers: I'm sorry

[4:04:59] Voice 7: to keep talking,

[4:04:59] Trustee Rogers: but I'll just tell you a little bit about the communities, the islands.

[4:05:03] Trustee Rogers: I've told you about Maine.

[4:05:05] Trustee Rogers: My sense is on both Gabriel and Galliano, first of all, I'd like to talk to the local trustees, but my sense is that both of them would be well served by a CIM type on the ground, in-person resource information meeting.

[4:05:25] Trustee Rogers: meeting i don't i don't get the sense that it that there's the kind of pushback in either of

[4:05:31] Trustee Rogers: those places about a widespread that would require the type of deliberative dialogue that we're

[4:05:37] Trustee Rogers: talking about except in that context because i did i'm not getting a sense i mean obviously

[4:05:41] Trustee Rogers: there's some people that are are um that have a point of view and that may disagree with some of

[4:05:47] Trustee Rogers: the policies but that's that's just my sense um if we could find a way to reach into particularly

[4:05:52] Trustee Rogers: particularly on Gabriel that reach into communities that we don't normally

[4:05:55] Trustee Rogers: reach, uh, that would be a good thing,

[4:05:58] Trustee Rogers: but that that's the sort of format that I see.

[4:06:01] Voice 7: Yeah. And we're not holding anyone to anything.

[4:06:03] Voice 7: We're just trying to get a sense so that we can build in, you know,

[4:06:08] Voice 7: some, some practicality to this thing.

[4:06:11] Voice 7: We do not have extensive money, um,

[4:06:15] Voice 7: local area plan $70,000 on, and, you know,

[4:06:19] Voice 7: on salt spring and we're trying to do some variant of the same thing across the whole trust area so

[4:06:24] Voice 7: that's helpful thanks okay

[4:06:30] Trustee Luckham: so maybe i'll add uh well i'll end up with a question but a couple of

[4:06:34] Trustee Luckham: following along that theme of uh the islands um certainly salt spring island uh from my perspective

[4:06:42] Trustee Luckham: needs a significantly higher level of engagement than let's say fetus by comparison um and only

[4:06:50] Trustee Luckham: because there's significant numbers of groups and bodies and individuals that are deeply

[4:06:59] Trustee Luckham: involved in this already. And so I think the trustees need the support there to deploy this

[4:07:08] Trustee Luckham: consultation thing. And then I'll just say Laskiti, by comparison, is somewhere certainly

[4:07:15] Trustee Luckham: above the level of conversation that possibly Thetis is at, but I may also be underestimating

[4:07:22] Trustee Luckham: my own island. And so there needs to be an analysis on that based upon where the areas

[4:07:29] Trustee Luckham: are that the feedback we've received from, and then also acknowledging that maybe we haven't

[4:07:34] Trustee Luckham: actually woken the sleeping giant on one of these places at this point. And so we need to consider

[4:07:42] Trustee Luckham: or whom whom we've not heard from just as much as whom we have heard from so um it strikes me

[4:07:51] Trustee Luckham: that uh and i just need some clarity here that we certainly got some budget presently of which

[4:07:57] Trustee Luckham: we have discretion um there's an in total support of the proposal the recommendation that's coming

[4:08:04] Trustee Luckham: up about advancing monies to do the first nations uh consultation piece but i also don't want to

[4:08:12] Trustee Luckham: to shortchange ourselves if, and if I understood what you said, CAO, is that we might be able to

[4:08:20] Trustee Luckham: engage some consulting to provide that advice in the development of the plan. And so I want to make

[4:08:31] Trustee Luckham: sure that if that's the case, that we've got some funding to develop the plan that you're going to

[4:08:36] Trustee Luckham: to take the council and then indeed I would anticipate that from that there's going to be

[4:08:42] Trustee Luckham: some guesstimates of what the budget would be required to deliver the plan or roll out the plan

[4:08:50] Trustee Luckham: and that absolutely if there's a necessity for more than the 75,000 that's on the table at the

[4:08:56] Trustee Luckham: moment then that that request would come with that a recommendation for that would come with that plan

[4:09:03] Trustee Luckham: and so in terms of today I you know it's interesting there's two ways to approach

[4:09:10] Trustee Luckham: this right a motion that gives you clarity about what it is that you want to do or a summary of

[4:09:16] Trustee Luckham: what you've heard today and we say yeah go out and do that so advance this conversation to a

[4:09:24] Trustee Luckham: meaningful place that you can start the wheels turning to get this plan preparation going

[4:09:31] Trustee Luckham: going um

[4:09:32] Voice 7: i i can help you with i can help you with that at the as you near the end of your

[4:09:36] Voice 7: conversations with a potential recommendation to us okay

[4:09:40] Trustee Luckham: so shall i just continue with trustees then

[4:09:43] Voice 7: yes okay

[4:09:44] Trustee Luckham: so vice chair fast or sorry patrick did you have your hand up sue no

[4:09:50] Trustee Patrick: um we're doing

[4:09:52] Trustee Patrick: exactly what mari said happens we're talking about tactics you know let's do a community

[4:09:58] Trustee Patrick: information meeting here and let's do this here and you know what do we want to get out of what

[4:10:03] Trustee Patrick: of this of this and that's my i'm not a professional i think we need some help

[4:10:08] Trustee Patrick: some outside eyes that can look at where we are where we're trying to go and help map a direction

[4:10:13] Trustee Patrick: to get there and um you know and i think we have to be cautious of of the tactics that we're

[4:10:21] Trustee Patrick: thinking because they may not work they may work i don't know okay i did draft a couple motions too

[4:10:32] Trustee Patrick: i mean i know they need work but um i did draft a couple laurie has them

[4:10:37] Trustee Rogers: i'll make an easy one

[4:10:40] Trustee Rogers: i'll make an easy one i move that we schedule an executive committee meeting for september the

[4:10:45] Trustee Rogers: first oh except we have an fpc meeting that day so what do we do about that

[4:10:51] Voice 7: okay um but i don't

[4:10:55] Trustee Rogers: mind it's yeah the problem is when if it's anything other than september the first if it's anything

[4:10:59] Trustee Rogers: anything other than wednesday we run into other meetings but i don't sorry so i would draw that

[4:11:08] Trustee Rogers: because there is an fpc meeting that day well

[4:11:15] Voice 7: if i if i may so you see the challenge in front of us

[4:11:19] Voice 7: it's the 21st of august we have to go off and do some of the very work we've discussed

[4:11:25] Voice 7: um and that's going to take a couple weeks just to see if we can get some outside engagement

[4:11:31] Voice 7: engagement so that's going to take us into um early mid-august and then we'd have to get those

[4:11:38] Voice 7: people to provide some advice so that's going to take us at lightning speed and i don't even know

[4:11:45] Voice 7: whether it's possible fate itself might take us to trust council reconsidering its its timing here

[4:11:53] Voice 7: um i would think into the first week of september so we would re-engage given whatever direction or

[4:12:04] Voice 7: understanding we leave this meeting with with reporting back to you sometime in the first week

[4:12:08] Voice 7: of December September with either core elements associated with an engagement plan that can be

[4:12:17] Voice 7: approved by trust council and we would provide that to you on the 8th and we're going to try

[4:12:21] Voice 7: and do that and if we can't we'll have to all go to trust council and say more is coming so that

[4:12:32] Voice 7: so so that meeting can be on the second that meeting can be on the third that would give us

[4:12:39] Voice 7: two or three days to course correct for the eighth um so

[4:12:44] Trustee Luckham: trustees rogers motion then might be to to

[4:12:48] Trustee Luckham: confirm a meeting for the first week of september

[4:12:51] Voice 7: yes thank

[4:12:53] Trustee Luckham: you because

[4:12:55] Voice 7: i'm nervous to have you get

[4:12:56] Voice 7: this and then approve it and then it goes straight to trust council i just don't think that that

[4:13:00] Voice 7: makes sense

[4:13:02] Trustee Rogers: absolutely yeah if i if i can i just looked at our calendar there is there's currently

[4:13:08] Trustee Rogers: currently nothing that I see on our calendar scheduled for the second on the on the overall

[4:13:14] Trustee Rogers: trust council calendar there's something there's a south pender meeting on the third there's the

[4:13:20] Trustee Rogers: fpc on the on the first but there's nothing on the second yeah

[4:13:26] Voice 2: I see that too are

[4:13:28] Voice 7: you okay with

[4:13:28] Voice 7: where we're going here David yes

[4:13:30] Voice 2: definitely okay yeah

[4:13:32] Voice 2: so

[4:13:33] Trustee Rogers: if everybody's amenable I would make that

[4:13:37] Trustee Rogers: that motion to read September 2nd.

[4:13:42] Voice 8: I'm just having a quick look here.

[4:13:45] Voice 8: Yeah, it looks fine to me.

[4:13:56] Trustee Luckham: Are you going to go for it, Dan?

[4:13:59] Trustee Rogers: Sorry, I'll move that we schedule

[4:14:01] Trustee Rogers: a special executive committee meeting September 2nd.

[4:14:12] Trustee Luckham: Seconded by Trustee Fass, thank you.

[4:14:15] Trustee Luckham: Any discussion?

[4:14:16] Trustee Luckham: All those in favor?

[4:14:19] Trustee Luckham: Raise your hands, physical hands.

[4:14:21] Trustee Luckham: Great, that carries unanimously.

[4:14:22] Trustee Luckham: unanimously okay that's one ceo were you going to summarize for us well i

[4:14:30] Voice 7: think trustee patrick

[4:14:31] Voice 7: had some things but what i was hoping to get out of this is the the the key theme i've heard is

[4:14:37] Voice 7: that we develop um that we extend um the development of an engagement plan and get

[4:14:44] Voice 7: some third-party advice simply said um and that um that would be helpful you know that some

[4:14:52] Voice 7: direction to that to to that effect if that's what to ec and i haven't heard any differing opinions

[4:14:57] Voice 7: there um um we would then act on that with some support from executive committee that's your

[4:15:03] Voice 7: that's your view and um it doesn't have to prescribe the means by which that happens

[4:15:08] Voice 7: necessarily but um a recommendation to consider various elements as we go out there and try and

[4:15:14] Voice 7: get some engagement advice okay

[4:15:16] Trustee Luckham: trustee patrick let's see what you have um

[4:15:19] Trustee Patrick: well yeah i guess

[4:15:20] Trustee Patrick: so laurie there's a it's the first two there's two motions i mean i'm and i'm these are for

[4:15:26] Trustee Patrick: draft for conversation i'm not making them at this point these are i've been dwelling on them

[4:15:33] Trustee Patrick: laurie i threw in an old one at the bottom that i had worked on before the last meeting but

[4:15:38] Trustee Patrick: so this was the first one yeah um and i know i know like peter like him i know he asked because

[4:15:53] Trustee Patrick: because I said input being an integral part,

[4:15:56] Trustee Patrick: like this isn't about necessarily rewriting.

[4:16:00] Trustee Patrick: This is that people need to feel that their engagement

[4:16:02] Trustee Patrick: is being considered in the drafting of the text.

[4:16:06] Trustee Patrick: That's how I intended that sentence.

[4:16:10] Trustee Patrick: This isn't about starting with a blank piece of paper

[4:16:12] Trustee Patrick: and rewriting, but that they feel that the input is,

[4:16:16] Trustee Patrick: you know, they're participating in the development

[4:16:20] Trustee Patrick: of the final version, basically.

[4:16:25] Trustee Luckham: well uh any uh trustee fast go ahead i

[4:16:31] Trustee Fast: wonder if uh the mover might consider another bullet

[4:16:34] Trustee Fast: that says uh that just um that um engagement may look very different on different islands

[4:16:43] Trustee Fast: or

[4:16:52] Trustee Patrick: that engagement may need to be tailored to different islands or something of that nature

[4:16:57] Trustee Patrick: yeah yeah whatever you like

[4:16:58] Trustee Fast: i just just to have it here so that it was clear

[4:17:02] Trustee Fast: well

[4:17:03] Trustee Luckham: tailored to island needs individual island yeah

[4:17:08] Trustee Patrick: because like i said a a deliberative

[4:17:11] Trustee Patrick: conversation or deliberative dialogue is can be look very different to paste on the population

[4:17:18] Trustee Patrick: and intimacy that trustees have with their island yeah don't

[4:17:32] Trustee Luckham: see anything terribly

[4:17:33] Trustee Luckham: wrong there but would appreciate staff's uh candid advice on whether or not we're getting

[4:17:41] Trustee Luckham: getting too far into the weeds um and then with my own thought

[4:17:46] Trustee Luckham: i'll come to dan in a second with

[4:17:49] Trustee Luckham: respect to my own thought about you coming back in your engagement plan next phase of the engagement

[4:17:56] Trustee Luckham: plan may require a financial request um

[4:18:01] Voice 3: is

[4:18:02] Trustee Luckham: that a given yeah

[4:18:06] Voice 7: we haven't even gotten to how we would

[4:18:08] Voice 7: facilitate professional advice and and with an outcome product in six weeks so we're meeting

[4:18:16] Voice 7: towards the end of this week around that and we have some funds available that we would utilize

[4:18:27] Trustee Luckham: okay um now whose hand did i see up there sorry dan i think it was yours

[4:18:31] Trustee Luckham: so

[4:18:33] Trustee Rogers: it's the second sentence of the first bullet that um i think in my view is getting into the

[4:18:45] Trustee Rogers: weeds because it's sort of directing the type of third-party advice that uh we're seeking

[4:18:54] Trustee Rogers: um

[4:18:56] Trustee Patrick: no i'm fine to remove that that this kind of came from a language piece i had written because

[4:19:01] Trustee Patrick: i was just trying to give some context of what a deliberative dialogue might look like

[4:19:08] Trustee Rogers: yeah and and and i get that and and but i i think if we're going to ask for advice i think we need

[4:19:15] Trustee Rogers: to ask for advice and they may give that advice um i personally would take it i wouldn't include

[4:19:23] Trustee Rogers: it but i want to make sure others agree with me

[4:19:26] Trustee Patrick: i'm i'm fine with removing that one okay and i

[4:19:30] Trustee Luckham: see nodding from sue ellen fast so let's remove that that'll make it simpler uh okay so there

[4:19:40] Trustee Luckham: we've got a motion and i think you have some general consensus around that trustee patrick

[4:19:45] Trustee Luckham: do you want to move that

[4:19:46] Trustee Patrick: i'm i'm i will move that motion do you want me to read it out loud or

[4:19:50] Trustee Patrick: i

[4:19:51] Trustee Luckham: think for clarity of the public listening that would be good because

[4:19:54] Trustee Luckham: sure they

[4:19:55] Trustee Luckham: may not be able to see this i

[4:19:57] Trustee Patrick: move that the executive committee direct staff to

[4:19:59] Trustee Patrick: obtain third-party advice to develop the next phase of the policy statement public engagement

[4:20:04] Trustee Patrick: recognizing that participative democracy is a best practice method of public engagement and

[4:20:13] Trustee Patrick: likely the most suitable for building trust and reducing polarization across the trust area,

[4:20:17] Trustee Patrick: that public input plays an integral part in the next draft of the trust policy statement,

[4:20:23] Trustee Patrick: and that engagement may need to be tailored to different islands' needs.

[4:20:28] Trustee Luckham: All right, so let's move. Do I have a seconder? Trustee Fasch, thank you.

[4:20:32] Trustee Luckham: and dan was simultaneously second thing so that's good um is there any discussion

[4:20:43] Trustee Luckham: nope so then i'll call the vote all those in favor none opposed that carries now the second

[4:20:53] Trustee Patrick: i did i i understand the timing and the the chicken and egg issue with the

[4:20:58] Trustee Patrick: with the discussion guide so to speak but um yeah you can just that whole given the next

[4:21:09] Trustee Patrick: next phase one you can just cut that out there lori that was just an old old one i just threw

[4:21:14] Trustee Patrick: in the bottom sorry from july 8th i had written that one so you can just get rid of that one

[4:21:19] Trustee Patrick: all

[4:21:19] Voice 11: of this highlighted oops that i

[4:21:21] Trustee Patrick: had yeah yeah i said the whole bottom yeah i think there

[4:21:24] Trustee Patrick: was even another piece to that there you go and those two there you go get rid of those

[4:21:29] Trustee Patrick: yeah it's just the one above um so i don't know if we you know the conversations we've had about

[4:21:38] Trustee Patrick: a discussion guide is that you know do we wait till you get a consultant that gives you advice

[4:21:43] Trustee Patrick: or is that something that

[4:21:44] Voice 4: could

[4:21:45] Trustee Patrick: be worked on elements i'm hearing from staff that elements

[4:21:50] Trustee Patrick: of this would be created anyway for the website but um and i'm open to conversations on this one

[4:21:59] Trustee Patrick: absolutely i

[4:22:02] Trustee Rogers: think we could recommend it but if i i mean if you think that's a document but i

[4:22:07] Trustee Rogers: guessing there's going to be some i mean there's going to be some material that comes out from

[4:22:12] Trustee Rogers: from this somehow or other, somewhere along the line, so.

[4:22:21] Trustee Luckham: You know, the language there I think is important

[4:22:26] Trustee Luckham: because the phrase discussion paper has been brought up

[4:22:30] Trustee Luckham: a number of times and this body of work

[4:22:33] Trustee Luckham: is not a discussion paper at this point,

[4:22:35] Trustee Luckham: I think is where we're at.

[4:22:37] Trustee Luckham: So discussion guide, the language that I heard Maria used

[4:22:41] Trustee Luckham: and somebody else who's used that a little bit

[4:22:43] Trustee Luckham: it with some kind of other guide um guidebook say again guidebook a guidebook yeah that that seems

[4:22:53] Trustee Luckham: more uh fundamental that is something that helps provide understanding than this but yeah discussion

[4:23:04] Trustee Patrick: guide i mean a guide but that's what it's that's what this burnaby thing's called it's called a

[4:23:09] Trustee Patrick: discussion guide right right there it's a that's all its purpose is is to guide the conversation so

[4:23:18] Trustee Patrick: whatever term makes sense to people and

[4:23:21] Trustee Fast: that is the term that those other two trustees um

[4:23:24] Trustee Fast: thorne and morrison uh lee morrison used although it might mean something different to them yeah

[4:23:36] Trustee Patrick: i think discussion got a guide or is is is the term i did quite a bit of research on

[4:23:45] Trustee Luckham: I'm not going to go against that so that's uh is it so is this a motion

[4:23:51] Trustee Luckham: well for

[4:23:52] Voice 7: I'd like to comment on this please yeah

[4:23:54] Trustee Luckham: yeah well

[4:23:57] Voice 7: I defer to trustee fast but I would like to speak before before you vote if that's

[4:24:02] Voice 7: okay okay

[4:24:03] Trustee Luckham: let's go to trustee fasting yeah

[4:24:05] Trustee Fast: thank you I I uh I would prefer to leave this out

[4:24:09] Trustee Fast: um i don't i'm not in favor of this motion because i think we should leave it up to staff we've given

[4:24:15] Trustee Fast: them the tasks and uh i don't like the word deliberative dialogues in there because i'm not

[4:24:22] Trustee Fast: sure that's what the plan will be and uh and i think some trustees might have a very different

[4:24:28] Trustee Fast: idea of what a discussion guide is so you know something vague like booklet might be better

[4:24:35] Trustee Fast: but i um i i think this is uh uh telling how as opposed to directing to and so i'm not in favor

[4:24:46] Trustee Fast: of this motion

[4:24:47] Trustee Luckham: okay thank you the motion hasn't been moved yet but ceo hudson so

[4:24:54] Voice 7: two things one

[4:24:55] Voice 7: significant thought here is the idea of an engagement platform that we're discussing

[4:25:01] Voice 7: Um, there's been tremendous success with, uh, you know, there's, I won't use any of the proprietary names, but it's, it's, it's a, it's an electronic means of people voting on a geographic basis on a variety of different concepts, concepts and issues.

[4:25:16] Voice 7: And they need to be, um, brought to a common place of understanding before they can engage fully in those things.

[4:25:23] Voice 7: So those things cost a lot of money, but they're used to great success throughout British Columbia and other places when you're looking at municipal initiatives and so forth.

[4:25:35] Voice 7: And you can see where people are, what issues matter to them.

[4:25:37] Voice 7: So that's something we'd be talking about for a number of years here at the Trust.

[4:25:42] Voice 7: The policy statement might be an accelerator to that.

[4:25:45] Voice 7: So we'd like to look at that.

[4:25:47] Voice 7: That naturally, it's not a competitive concept with this, but they would work together.

[4:25:54] Voice 7: And to achieve this goal, if you would consider changing, recommend that we investigate preparing a discussion guide or whatever word you want to use.

[4:26:04] Voice 7: We will certainly do that.

[4:26:05] Voice 7: I'm hearing you.

[4:26:05] Voice 7: um and uh instead of you having to make that decision today that we have one but just say

[4:26:11] Voice 7: recommend that this be considered in the development of things we'll do our level best to

[4:26:15] Voice 7: to get you that information and and look at what that would be we have a lot of this material

[4:26:21] Voice 7: already that you know that we could easily tie together into some some version of of what's

[4:26:27] Voice 7: being discussed i'm

[4:26:29] Trustee Patrick: i'm happy to make those those changes uh to that and i do agree we have most of

[4:26:34] Trustee Patrick: the material and it's just about you know cutting and pasting and bringing it together you know and

[4:26:40] Trustee Patrick: i think that's the the policy statement on its own is not a stand-alone that's the problem it's not

[4:26:46] Trustee Patrick: a stand-alone document and that's what people have in their hand and they're you know they get

[4:26:50] Trustee Patrick: confused so i guess what agreed the executive committee recommend staff uh investigate recommend

[4:27:01] Trustee Patrick: recommend staff investigate, investigate, preparing a discussion

[4:27:08] Voice 7: guide, and then you

[4:27:11] Trustee Patrick: can just put up to support and facilitate engagement, the public engagement or something.

[4:27:20] Trustee Patrick: Are you good with that,

[4:27:21] Voice 7: David, or do you see

[4:27:22] Voice 2: that? Yeah, yeah, and if I may, I just want to thank

[4:27:26] Voice 2: you, Russ, you said most what I was going to say. I just wanted to say that we do, we've just

[4:27:30] Voice 2: updated the website with a new document on july 15th so creating a guide like this i don't think

[4:27:37] Voice 2: would be difficult i think what will be difficult is making sure we know what the goal like what

[4:27:42] Voice 2: sections and how we want to present that so that's where we probably look for some help and then the

[4:27:48] Voice 2: other thing that's not clear to me is the timing so you know is this something now now you've

[4:27:54] Voice 2: reworded it's okay but you know is this something we need to do i have done right away with the

[4:27:59] Voice 2: 20 000 or something that would be part of the engagement plan that would be subject to council's

[4:28:04] Voice 2: approval in september so those are the only things i was um questioning i

[4:28:10] Trustee Patrick: think i'll help

[4:28:11] Trustee Patrick: lori here so facilitate um public after public engagement yeah and

[4:28:25] Trustee Fast: take out the deliberative

[4:28:26] Trustee Fast: dialogues yeah yeah

[4:28:31] Trustee Patrick: maybe just public engagement for the draft policy statement i think is just

[4:28:35] Trustee Patrick: you can just leave us a public engagement just take out the on the drafting of and i think or

[4:28:41] Trustee Patrick: do you want to say public engagement on the drafting of i don't whatever makes sense

[4:28:47] Voice 4: it's

[4:28:47] Trustee Patrick: already drafted so i would probably take it out take it out um well it's still being drafted

[4:28:54] Trustee Patrick: it's only a draft

[4:28:55] Trustee Fast: you're still drafting could you insert

[4:28:58] Trustee Fast: on the next phase of drafting could you

[4:29:01] Voice 2: could you say on the draft policy statement sure thank you

[4:29:10] Trustee Patrick: yeah and then do you want the

[4:29:14] Trustee Patrick: context or all of that removed is that too much detail

[4:29:19] Voice 8: too much so just

[4:29:22] Trustee Patrick: yeah period after statement then um my i mean my feedback to david on um

[4:29:34] Trustee Patrick: timing would be if you're getting the third party some advice on the engagement that you know that's

[4:29:39] Trustee Patrick: part of that advice is sort of when you know when when and how this is needed and to the extent and

[4:29:46] Trustee Patrick: so forth because it will relate directly to what they're advising right

[4:29:52] Voice 2: thank you that helps so i'm

[4:29:55] Trustee Patrick: i'm happy i'll make that motion then we can have the congress i move that the executive committee

[4:30:00] Trustee Patrick: and staff investigate preparing a discussion guide

[4:30:02] Trustee Patrick: to support and facilitate public engagement

[4:30:05] Trustee Patrick: on the draft policy statement.

[4:30:09] Trustee Luckham: Okay, moved.

[4:30:11] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Patrick, do I have a seconder?

[4:30:12] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Fast, thank you, Trustee Fast.

[4:30:15] Trustee Luckham: Any discussion?

[4:30:17] Trustee Luckham: All those in favor?

[4:30:19] Trustee Fast: Can I discuss? Go ahead.

[4:30:21] Trustee Fast: I still wonder about the words discussion guide

[4:30:26] Trustee Fast: and whether that should be, well, no, that's fine.

[4:30:32] Trustee Fast: Actually, I remember now.

[4:30:33] Trustee Fast: no that's fine thank you.

[4:30:35] Trustee Luckham: Thank you so any further discussion all those in favor any opposed none

[4:30:44] Trustee Luckham: opposed that carries. Thank you very much for your help with this Vice Chair Patrick. Is there any

[4:30:50] Trustee Luckham: further direction that we need to provide today? Seems like we've done that so then I am presuming

[4:31:00] Trustee Luckham: then that there's also no further discussion in general on this topic and we can move to the next

[4:31:05] Trustee Luckham: item on our agenda which would be for 9.1.2.2 First Nations capacity funding for early and

[4:31:13] Trustee Luckham: ongoing internal engagement of the draft new policy statement. Who's going to introduce this?

[4:31:19] Trustee Luckham: Is this also David Mahler or CEO Hassenkiller? Do you want to introduce it at all?

[4:31:24] Voice 7: David's got it.

[4:31:25] Voice 7: Thank you very much.

[4:31:26] Voice 2: Yeah, thank you. This is pretty straightforward. You've had most of the

[4:31:29] Voice 2: discussion already on the issues. As I said in the briefing, tomorrow we will be going out and

[4:31:37] Voice 2: doing the referrals to all the agencies of the draft and also to First Nations. And we would

[4:31:44] Voice 2: like, obviously, to be able to offer capacity funding to First Nations as part of that referral

[4:31:49] Voice 2: process. So this is requesting approval to spend up to $15,000 from the current budget that's

[4:31:58] Voice 2: already allocated to allow us to do that and then that will just allow us to work on the

[4:32:05] Voice 2: larger engagement for the public using the 75,000 that council has allocated. So the

[4:32:13] Voice 2: resolution is on the first page, page 49 of the agenda package for the executive committee's

[4:32:21] Voice 2: consideration.

[4:32:24] Trustee Luckham: Thank you David Marley. Are there any questions on the request for decision

[4:32:29] Trustee Luckham: or comments?

[4:32:31] Trustee Luckham: No, would somebody like to make a motion?

[4:32:33] Trustee Luckham: Dan Rogers, over to you.

[4:32:34] Trustee Rogers: No, I have a question.

[4:32:39] Trustee Rogers: So somehow I thought we'd already allocated money

[4:32:44] Trustee Rogers: to this process.

[4:32:48] Trustee Rogers: And so I just went back and looked through

[4:32:50] Trustee Rogers: the various budgets and items from March.

[4:32:54] Trustee Rogers: And indeed, there are a number of places

[4:32:57] Trustee Rogers: where we have allocated, you know,

[4:32:59] Trustee Rogers: relatively substantial amounts of money

[4:33:01] Trustee Rogers: to First Nations engagement, but they are,

[4:33:05] Trustee Rogers: and it's discussed in the $29,000 budget

[4:33:09] Trustee Rogers: for the engagement going forward,

[4:33:11] Trustee Rogers: but there's no actual number attached to it

[4:33:14] Trustee Rogers: in the request for decision from March.

[4:33:18] Trustee Rogers: So now we have a number attached to it.

[4:33:20] Trustee Rogers: So my understanding would be that this would come out

[4:33:23] Trustee Rogers: of the existing allocation of budget

[4:33:25] Trustee Rogers: from the 29,000 for this particular term.

[4:33:30] Trustee Rogers: So as I just want to point out, as the CAO said earlier today, of the existing allocation of budget, not counting the 75 that was approved in principle, that leaves somewhat less of that if we set this money aside.

[4:33:49] Trustee Rogers: side so just so everybody is conscious of that but i'm assuming that someone's done some analysis

[4:33:57] Trustee Rogers: and and thinks that this will be an appropriate amount to do the engagement it's and it's and

[4:34:04] Trustee Rogers: it's capacity funding i recognize it's different than some of the other funds that we've allocated

[4:34:09] Trustee Rogers: like for the heritage cultural fund and the reconciliation action plan and the water project

[4:34:15] Trustee Rogers: All of which have components of First Nations engagement and embedded in them.

[4:34:20] Trustee Rogers: This is capacity funding specific to this project, correct?

[4:34:24] Voice 2: Correct.

[4:34:26] Voice 2: Okay.

[4:34:27] Trustee Rogers: Yeah.

[4:34:27] Voice 2: So, yeah.

[4:34:28] Voice 2: And if I may, just to the Chair's response.

[4:34:32] Voice 2: Yeah, we did capacity funding in the initial round with First Nations.

[4:34:37] Voice 2: We allocated up to a certain amount.

[4:34:40] Voice 2: I think it's around 20,000.

[4:34:41] Voice 2: and and it ended up spending about half of that so we're not sure exactly how much this will be

[4:34:48] Voice 2: it's it could be 15 but it could be significantly less than that as well so yeah

[4:34:53] Voice 2: or well we'll try

[4:34:56] Voice 2: and keep within the budget so uh so this is um to recognize that now we might get a little bit

[4:35:03] Voice 2: more response so hopefully we do and we can engage with the first nations okay

[4:35:09] Trustee Rogers: so i'll move that the

[4:35:10] Trustee Rogers: executive committee approve up to fifteen thousand dollars from the island's 2050 public

[4:35:15] Trustee Rogers: engagement budget to be used for capacity funding for first nations and ongoing referral engagement

[4:35:20] Trustee Rogers: of the new draft the draft new policy statement move

[4:35:26] Trustee Luckham: to a seconder second by trustee fast thank

[4:35:32] Trustee Luckham: you um here's to speak to the motion just no any discussion go ahead trustee fast and then trustee

[4:35:40] Trustee Luckham: just

[4:35:40] Trustee Fast: that the words early and ongoing i think both those words are in there did you mean to

[4:35:46] Trustee Fast: leave out that one trustee rogers early i

[4:35:50] Trustee Rogers: i did not okay thank you so i was trying to read what

[4:35:54] Trustee Rogers: was in front of me and obviously i missed a couple words

[4:35:56] Trustee Fast: okay thank you that's all i just wanted to

[4:35:58] Trustee Fast: clarify i think it's a good

[4:36:00] Trustee Fast: idea i'm in favor

[4:36:01] Trustee Luckham: trustee patrick um

[4:36:04] Trustee Patrick: i just want to understand

[4:36:05] Trustee Patrick: so we had an early budget for the early phase that you said wasn't spent so i mean is that

[4:36:14] Trustee Patrick: then all gone or like the 29 000 we're talking about was i thought remainder of what was left

[4:36:22] Trustee Patrick: in the budget for the ongoing engagement so i'm just confused if this if the if the

[4:36:28] Trustee Patrick: why we don't just carry if there's still room in the existing budget potentially 10 000 why

[4:36:36] Trustee Patrick: why we don't just carry on with that budget

[4:36:38] Trustee Patrick: and then top it up if it gets used.

[4:36:43] Trustee Patrick: So I'm just confused.

[4:36:44] Voice 2: So

[4:36:45] Trustee Luckham: somebody from staff have an answer there?

[4:36:48] Voice 2: Yeah, I don't have a great answer,

[4:36:50] Voice 2: but my understanding is that that was

[4:36:52] Voice 2: in a previous fiscal year.

[4:36:54] Voice 2: So any money that didn't get spent

[4:36:56] Voice 2: would have just rolled over,

[4:36:58] Voice 2: but it wouldn't have been allocated for that use.

[4:37:01] Voice 2: I've got

[4:37:02] Voice 7: a great answer.

[4:37:03] Voice 2: Okay, I'll let you see how to do it.

[4:37:04] Voice 2: Okay.

[4:37:05] Voice 7: So, indeed, David's right on it. So, for this fiscal year, we have the monies that we've carried over. It was in the $29,000 range. We did, in response to the leaflet that went out to all the different post office boxes, we spent $7,000 of that $29,000 in support of the policy statement project, going out and doing our own version, which had quite a bit of uptake.

[4:37:28] Voice 7: So that took us down to about $22,000 or so. And keep in mind, the trust budgeting, I'm hoping Julia's not listening, isn't so discreet that within the budget, we earmark for various areas.

[4:37:44] Voice 7: So in the previous year's budget, we'd have earmarked a certain amount for engagement with First Nations, but of course, this is on their terms. Any monies we didn't use would have just been folded into that year's use of funds for the policy statement as a whole.

[4:37:58] Voice 7: So you're seeing some portion of that move forward. This is just getting some certainty here at the outset. And it's of this $15,000, some of it is money that, you know, probably we didn't use previously, but this is what we have remainder from the original budget on the policy statement.

[4:38:17] Voice 7: and given that there's money coming and that we need to engage now um that uh this this uh

[4:38:26] Voice 7: we would like your direction to do it we could probably just go ahead but um i think that it's

[4:38:32] Voice 7: um prudent to keep yourselves and trust council informed okay

[4:38:40] Voice 8: maybe

[4:38:40] Voice 7: a good answer not a great

[4:38:41] Voice 7: answer anything

[4:38:45] Trustee Luckham: else from anybody then i'll call the vote all those in favor none opposed that

[4:38:52] Trustee Luckham: carries. Excellent, thank you everybody for your support and the staff for the advice and the

[4:38:59] Trustee Luckham: direction. So I'm going to move down to executive committee initiated executive

[4:39:09] Trustee Luckham: so that there's some context notes there and this has been passed along a couple of times here now

[4:39:17] Trustee Luckham: Now, 9.2.1.1, Vice Chair Rogers, I'm going to flip this over to you.

[4:39:29] Trustee Rogers: So let's take this major piece of work on and strike a strategy to pick this up and do it on an ongoing basis.

[4:39:43] Trustee Rogers: So, you know, I don't know, I was having a, I don't know if the right word is philosophical, but a reflective moment back in May about a number of things.

[4:39:53] Trustee Rogers: And one of the things that struck me was, and hopefully you've read my fairly short summary, was some of the provisions of the Act that provide us what I think is a different avenue to develop our relationship with provincial government.

[4:40:12] Trustee Rogers: And I think we have a very standard, I've listed what I understand to be the three ways that we currently engage with the provincial government.

[4:40:25] Trustee Rogers: And it struck me that there is another way we could do it where we could simply make formal recommendations.

[4:40:33] Trustee Rogers: I have no idea of the history of the trust.

[4:40:36] Trustee Rogers: I asked, I think, the Director of Trust Area Services at one point, and I don't think she knew of any, but if this particular authority, or I guess an authority, this particular method was utilized in any way that's set out in the Act, which gives us the ability to make, quote, recommendations to the Cabinet about this.

[4:40:59] Trustee Rogers: And it strikes me that much of what we could do, we could restructure into, in terms of our relationship with the province, we could restructure into recommendations to the cabinet on an annual, biannual, whatever kind of a process, if we just built it into our structure to just do it, to gather them and put them together.

[4:41:22] Trustee Rogers: Now, I recognize that there may be some, a lot of logistical issues with that.

[4:41:29] Trustee Rogers: We might need another committee.

[4:41:32] Trustee Rogers: We might need to assign it to the Trust Policy Programs Committee.

[4:41:36] Trustee Rogers: We might sort of, and then have it run through Trust Council.

[4:41:41] Trustee Rogers: And given all that's going on, it might be a big, too big an ask to ask.

[4:41:46] Trustee Rogers: But it strikes me that it struck me and I wanted to see what other people's thoughts

[4:41:50] Trustee Rogers: were about this.

[4:41:51] Trustee Rogers: This would be another way for us to, and perhaps a more official and formal way to make recommendations regarding the operations.

[4:42:02] Trustee Rogers: For example, recommendation might be in order to facilitate the operations of the trust and the trust area and protect the ecosystem for the benefit of the residents and all of British Columbia.

[4:42:15] Trustee Rogers: They need to revisit their funding formula for the local trust for the trust council and to the to the trust and not just give us the kind of funding that they give to to regional districts, which is sort of their base grant funding when they all when regional districts obviously qualify for all sorts of funding for specific services that are provided that we don't qualify for.

[4:42:39] Trustee Rogers: for so i mean i mean it's just an idea it's a way a different way to going but and i sort of

[4:42:45] Trustee Rogers: imagined that it would be um uh an area where we could gather two or three we could work them up

[4:42:52] Trustee Rogers: and then file like a formal here are the recommendations of trust council to the

[4:42:57] Trustee Rogers: province related to the trust uh for the year 2022 or 2023 or whatever and i guess i wanted to see

[4:43:05] Trustee Rogers: what the five of you or six of you or however many are and it would be thinking about this

[4:43:12] Trustee Rogers: thought about that process that possibility so

[4:43:17] Voice 10: can i try um

[4:43:20] Trustee Luckham: i don't you know it's interesting

[4:43:23] Trustee Luckham: and i don't disagree with your interpretation of that however i have a different interpretation of

[4:43:30] Trustee Luckham: this um in that and that and i would it would be interesting to know how it would unfold or whether

[4:43:36] Trustee Luckham: Well,

[4:43:37] Trustee Rogers: then you do get screwed.

[4:43:39] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, well, yeah, yeah.

[4:43:42] Trustee Luckham: That my interpretation is or was that in the event we were unable to reach some satisfaction with the province,

[4:43:53] Trustee Luckham: there's a higher level of authority that we can that we could promote those asks to.

[4:43:58] Trustee Luckham: because I think it would be more effective for us to ask for any of these kinds of considerations

[4:44:06] Trustee Luckham: which are on the table directly of our minister and our minister can choose to advance it or not

[4:44:12] Trustee Luckham: in the event where we felt we weren't getting satisfaction that that would be a higher level

[4:44:18] Trustee Luckham: of authority that we would appeal to but I might just be wrong in that that's just my

[4:44:23] Trustee Luckham: thought. So that's what I would offer. And then I would say that there's way too much on the plate,

[4:44:29] Trustee Luckham: Dan, at the moment. And this is going to go on the long list in the future somewhere. I don't

[4:44:35] Trustee Luckham: know how to manage. I don't know how to handle the workload. So that's my two cents. And then

[4:44:42] Trustee Luckham: I see trustee Popkin. I'll come to David Marlin.

[4:44:47] Trustee Patrick: No, I agree. I think this is something important.

[4:44:53] Trustee Patrick: And you think of all the conversations we're having with PMFL and others, to me, I read this as if there is something, an impediment to protecting the trust area, it's our duty to bring it to the attention of the government.

[4:45:06] Trustee Patrick: So if one of their acts or rules or something is affecting this special area, that we have a special duty to bring it to their attention.

[4:45:18] Trustee Patrick: That's sort of how I would summarize this.

[4:45:25] Voice 10: uh david marlin yeah

[4:45:27] Voice 2: i just wanted to you know from my history i've never known council to make a

[4:45:32] Voice 2: formal request through you know like a structured approach i think the way this has been dealt with

[4:45:40] Voice 2: is when you meet with the ministers or with different um bodies at the ministry

[4:45:46] Voice 2: you've done it verbally through direct conversations with your ministers

[4:45:50] Voice 2: uh you also in the past adopted quite a few protocol agreements with different ministries

[4:45:56] Voice 2: and the intent there was uh similar it's a different section of the act but it's the same

[4:46:01] Voice 2: thing it's looking at ways to cooperate and make recommendations so i just wanted to say that

[4:46:07] Voice 2: say that the other thing i wanted to say and this is putting my hat on is acting for claire

[4:46:12] Voice 2: the director of trust related services is that capacity would be an issue if you took something

[4:46:18] Voice 2: new one right now so if you want to look at this I would suggest put it on the long list and that

[4:46:24] Voice 2: when there is capacity bring it up onto your work program and ask for a report back on how this

[4:46:30] Voice 2: could work it might work better than the current system of you know dealing with issues as they

[4:46:37] Voice 2: come up if you had a more formal structured annual approach to doing it so it might be worth

[4:46:43] Voice 2: worth investigating but I can tell you now that Claire will tell you that she doesn't have capacity

[4:46:48] Voice 2: for the next while to do this. Mr Chair.

[4:46:53] Voice 10: Thank you. Yes sir. Well

[4:46:56] Voice 7: you know like many of us I've

[4:46:58] Voice 7: gone put my nose into the Islands Trust Act many a time but I have not landed significantly enough

[4:47:03] Voice 7: on this. I think this is a real opportunity for the Islands Trust. It's more commensurate I would

[4:47:08] Voice 7: would think with the special role if we could develop this muscle I think it's a great idea

[4:47:15] Voice 7: less about personalities and persuasion and more about the special role the trust has and unique

[4:47:22] Voice 7: insight I also think it has an opportunity for previous trustees and future trustees to look

[4:47:28] Voice 7: back at what trust counsel is determined in an official way to make time-specific requests or

[4:47:36] Voice 7: indications that we don't have. We have that now in, look up the strategic plan from 2004 to 2008

[4:47:45] Voice 7: and whatever questions went forward. So I think this is something that it would shock everyone

[4:47:52] Voice 7: if we started to use this right out of the bat, but I'm happy to start poking around around this

[4:47:56] Voice 7: particular avenue and see what it would look like. It is, it, you know, I don't think that the,

[4:48:02] Voice 7: the fate of the Allen's Trust should come down to a conversation between the CAO and

[4:48:06] Voice 7: the given CAO of the day and the given ADM of the day. And oh, that just didn't work out. And then

[4:48:12] Voice 7: I come back and say, hey, that didn't work out. You know, I'm being a little facetious, but

[4:48:17] Voice 7: having some version of this in play could be a great tool. And I'm reminded of some comments by

[4:48:22] Voice 7: various trustees, Trustee McConkie and others to go, you know, how are we changing things?

[4:48:27] Voice 7: things um how are we getting things done um and you know this could be one of those ways

[4:48:34] Voice 7: so i think it's i think it's great and it hasn't been touched on and

[4:48:39] Trustee Rogers: and if i could just say um

[4:48:41] Trustee Rogers: i mean just imagine that our annual report goes in and at the front or the back or wherever it

[4:48:47] Trustee Rogers: would be it would be here are three recommendations we make yeah we

[4:48:52] Trustee Rogers: want to create a special i i'm

[4:48:54] Trustee Rogers: I'm making this up, but please, I don't know how to do it.

[4:48:57] Trustee Rogers: We're making a special seat at the table for First Nations to be part of our decision-making structure.

[4:49:03] Trustee Rogers: We recommend that you create, you know, work on that or something like that, right?

[4:49:07] Trustee Rogers: I mean, something that could be, and these are our recommendations, because I expect this section has probably been there since 1974.

[4:49:16] Trustee Rogers: I haven't gone back to research the legislation.

[4:49:18] Trustee Rogers: And it probably was exactly what it was either you or Trustee Patrick who said, Vice Chair Patrick, who said it's part of our obligation to be making recommendations about the future and how the trust operates and let the province have a chance to look at it and say, you know, the act doesn't really address that and maybe it should.

[4:49:42] Trustee Rogers: So I would, I mean, I don't want to spend all day on this, but I would move that the possibility of utilizing Section 8.2.E of the Islands Trust Act be added to the EC project.

[4:50:01] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so can you articulate that again so Laurie can capture it? Because I don't think that was in your original...

[4:50:10] Trustee Rogers: No, I would move that the possibility of utilizing

[4:50:19] Trustee Rogers: Section 282E of the Islands Tract Act

[4:50:27] Trustee Rogers: be added to the executive committee projects list.

[4:50:33] Trustee Luckham: All right, and that's seconded by Trustee Patrick, I see.

[4:50:42] Trustee Luckham: And so let's just wait to see that motion from Lori.

[4:50:46] Voice 11: okay thank

[4:50:48] Trustee Luckham: you right um so is that what you moved uh dan should

[4:51:09] Trustee Fast: have the word section in it yeah

[4:51:15] Trustee Rogers: yeah that's good enough yeah

[4:51:16] Trustee Luckham: and then thank

[4:51:18] Trustee Rogers: you thank you laura

[4:51:19] Trustee Luckham: also then trustee patrick what

[4:51:21] Trustee Luckham: you've seconded yes okay so then is there any further discussion then i will call for the

[4:51:30] Trustee Luckham: vote all those in favor and there are none opposed so that carries so next so anything

[4:51:38] Trustee Luckham: Anything further on that, Dan, or that's good?

[4:51:42] Trustee Rogers: Good.

[4:51:42] Trustee Rogers: Okay, so point

[4:51:44] Trustee Luckham: 1.2 is from Vice-Chair Fast

[4:51:47] Trustee Luckham: regarding trail strategy from an email in June.

[4:51:53] Trustee Luckham: Over to you, Vice-Chair Fast.

[4:51:56] Trustee Fast: Sure, thank you.

[4:51:57] Trustee Fast: This is, it might not be the day to talk about it

[4:52:00] Trustee Fast: because Claire's not here, but my question was,

[4:52:03] Trustee Fast: in that email, was Islands Trust consulted

[4:52:07] Trustee Fast: in the BC Trails strategy?

[4:52:09] Trustee Fast: and I don't have an answer for that yet so I'm not sure whether we can talk

[4:52:14] Trustee Fast: about it here but it seems to me there's always a question of is islands trust

[4:52:18] Trustee Fast: consulted and if we were consulted how do I know that staff sent in a report or

[4:52:27] Trustee Fast: a response and and then to your point that's in this email mr. chair is how do

[4:52:34] Trustee Fast: we get mentioned in the publications which seems to me to be the smaller one

[4:52:37] Trustee Fast: I would sooner be consulted. I see the islands as islands of pathways. And as climate action and especially electric bikes get going, I think they could be car reduced areas of travel and all those kinds of things.

[4:52:55] Trustee Fast: So I think with the Mount Gardner issue here on Bowen being an example, I'm not sure that, I don't know if Islands Trust was even consulted.

[4:53:13] Trustee Fast: And I don't have an answer, and I haven't harassed Claire for an answer.

[4:53:16] Trustee Fast: So it's just sitting here, and I'll take it up with her later, unless anybody has anything to speak to it about.

[4:53:23] Voice 10: Well, David Marler, do you happen to know?

[4:53:25] Voice 10: I

[4:53:28] Voice 2: don't know I do seem to remember this coming in I just not sure if a response or you know

[4:53:36] Voice 2: whether anything was sent so I'd have to check with Claire so I don't have an answer sorry

[4:53:41] Voice 2: okay

[4:53:42] Trustee Fast: I'll follow up with Claire separately and thank you that's fine so

[4:53:47] Trustee Luckham: no other remarks from

[4:53:48] Trustee Luckham: anybody else so then that's great thank you uh bringing that to us and perhaps we'll hear

[4:53:56] Trustee Luckham: or something back.

[4:53:58] Trustee Luckham: So 9.1.3 by Chair Fast,

[4:54:02] Trustee Luckham: new tools for conduct, public hearing,

[4:54:04] Trustee Luckham: elected emails dated June 13th.

[4:54:06] Trustee Luckham: Thank you for bringing this to us.

[4:54:08] Trustee Luckham: And as you can see, I reflected on it.

[4:54:10] Trustee Luckham: Over to you, Trustee Fast.

[4:54:12] Trustee Fast: Sure, thank you.

[4:54:13] Trustee Fast: That's exactly why I brought it to Trust Council

[4:54:16] Trustee Fast: in the first place was in the hopes

[4:54:17] Trustee Fast: that there'd be something useful there.

[4:54:19] Trustee Fast: And I saw that you were quoting from the script

[4:54:23] Trustee Fast: that the mayor of new westminster uh read and i was prepared to be uh uh jumping in if i heard

[4:54:32] Trustee Fast: language that was inappropriate during the um town hall july 7th and happily didn't have to do that

[4:54:39] Trustee Fast: so i'm just happy to leave it here for information and that's great that you found it useful mr chair

[4:54:44] Trustee Fast: thank you yeah

[4:54:46] Trustee Luckham: and just so you know i i actually sent the script that i wrote last last night

[4:54:52] Trustee Luckham: actually I sent the script to Carmen to ask for comments and her comment was is that and indeed I

[4:54:59] Trustee Luckham: recognize that in the script even from the mayors of New Westminster and thanks to the city of New

[4:55:07] Trustee Luckham: Westminster actually that asking staff to jump in and speak to a point of order is not something

[4:55:16] Trustee Luckham: that would normally be done by a staff member and she's come back with some recommendations

[4:55:21] Trustee Luckham: for language there so this will come back as another iteration go ahead

[4:55:27] Trustee Fast: mr chair i think um

[4:55:29] Trustee Fast: i think it was that other members of council jump in and call points of order

[4:55:35] Trustee Fast: no

[4:55:37] Trustee Luckham: i um i i actually spent quite a bit of time uh translating the written word and it was um

[4:55:45] Trustee Luckham: uh members of the committee and senior staff may call point of order she says that specifically

[4:55:51] Trustee Luckham: So anyway we'll keep working on it and I appreciate it that was I like the tone and the language of it

[4:55:58] Trustee Luckham: and maybe just ask the other vice chairs if they were offended at all by that but I'm just being

[4:56:07] Trustee Luckham: cognizant of some of the criticism that came back about my lengthy remarks about the safety of the

[4:56:14] Trustee Luckham: the meetings and so and rogers yeah

[4:56:18] Trustee Rogers: thanks i appreciate that both uh vice chair fast and

[4:56:22] Trustee Rogers: actually trustee stamford sort of brought this new westminster i i must admit it if it if it was as

[4:56:29] Trustee Rogers: new if it really was a novel way of proceeding i wonder what their council meetings were like

[4:56:35] Trustee Rogers: before um because it it was extremely reminiscent to me of the sort of the the code of conduct

[4:56:41] Trustee Rogers: document that we put together two and a half years ago um and i used to paste you know post

[4:56:48] Trustee Rogers: up in the meeting rooms and sometimes still do although new language is always a good thing so

[4:56:54] Trustee Rogers: if there's a different i think people get tired of hearing my voice sometimes so having a new way

[4:56:59] Trustee Rogers: of saying things is a good thing the only thing i would caution is is uh and from reading the um

[4:57:06] Trustee Rogers: the newspaper report, they refer to the, to the counselors intervening during someone speaking,

[4:57:14] Trustee Rogers: they call it Thor's hammer. And I all of a sudden had a vision of, of 26 trustees feeling like they

[4:57:25] Trustee Rogers: had a hammer in their hand that they could utilize during a trust council meeting that would be very

[4:57:32] Trustee Rogers: very difficult to manage if it became a widespread practice of intervening during a town hall.

[4:57:41] Trustee Rogers: So, I mean, I'm particularly a trust counsel.

[4:57:44] Trustee Rogers: I would strongly encourage that sort of the control of that be left with the chair or at the worst, other vice chairs.

[4:57:55] Trustee Rogers: I mean, it doesn't mean that it's something that's particularly egregious,

[4:57:58] Trustee Rogers: but I don't I wouldn't want to see a practice there was a lot of intervention going on so

[4:58:04] Trustee Rogers: just be careful of that yeah yeah

[4:58:07] Trustee Luckham: I appreciate that Dan and thank you and I think that it's

[4:58:10] Trustee Luckham: not unfair to say that we've seen uh points of order at our council that also have their own

[4:58:16] Trustee Luckham: um issues associated with and we wouldn't want to have that proliferate uh trustee fast

[4:58:25] Trustee Fast: Oh, just that Trustee Stanford did clarify that that idea of Thor's hammer is a tongue-in-cheek humorous remark.

[4:58:38] Trustee Fast: It's to do with the Marvel Universe and all those movies, and this was specific to the movie Thor and that kind of stuff.

[4:58:44] Trustee Fast: but i also um that aside this uh is also um repeated in ali mina's um book that i carry around

[4:58:55] Trustee Fast: uh to meetings when i travel and it's and it's always here so this is on um it doesn't have a

[4:59:01] Trustee Fast: page number but it's the one about uh tools for meeting participants 7.9 thank you thank you

[4:59:08] Trustee Luckham: anything further shall we move along all right so 9.2.1.4 is again vice chair rogers

[4:59:19] Trustee Luckham: local trust committee advisory planning commission meeting protocol

[4:59:21] Trustee Luckham: and

[4:59:22] Trustee Rogers: it's and and it's a bit along the same lines is um and i i guess i'm not sure where we're at

[4:59:32] Trustee Rogers: in this discussion again it came up i think in in may but um there were some there were some

[4:59:38] Trustee Rogers: Some examples at some meetings where I was asked the question by an APC, whether an APC chair or indeed an LCC chair could, because of the behavior of a particular person, could just bar them from speaking in a meeting or not.

[4:59:53] Trustee Rogers: I mean, that was the pointed question I was asked.

[4:59:55] Trustee Rogers: And then I was asked, you know, what is the extent of the...

[5:00:00] Trustee Rogers: i mean i always treat it as a judgment call um uh for by the chair at any particular point in time

[5:00:06] Trustee Rogers: and i would not think that i would have the sort of authority to say to someone you can't speak at

[5:00:12] Trustee Rogers: our our um our ltc meetings any longer uh but i've had some frustration from some members of

[5:00:20] Trustee Rogers: public who have said isn't there a way to stop stop certain people from speaking at certain times

[5:00:26] Trustee Rogers: and uh i i i don't i don't i don't really want to do that but i i but i was asked by an apc chair

[5:00:34] Trustee Rogers: what their what what would the extent of their authority was so i thought i would ask the

[5:00:38] Trustee Rogers: question i don't know if any i and maybe there is not a good answer maybe there's not a a black

[5:00:45] Trustee Rogers: and white answer it's always a matter of call well

[5:00:49] Trustee Luckham: i think that there is a good answer and the

[5:00:51] Trustee Luckham: answer is no you can't ban somebody from speaking um but we have on salt spring had that question

[5:00:59] Trustee Luckham: be raised and what we have done is develop um a protocol around what's appropriate to speak about

[5:01:07] Trustee Luckham: and and um and um and that has the ability to curb that and gives the authority to the chair to uh

[5:01:15] Trustee Luckham: ask the speaker to move on to a different topic or phrase it in a different way but

[5:01:21] Trustee Luckham: david do you have anything else to add on that in terms of our meeting procedures yeah

[5:01:27] Voice 2: i do uh

[5:01:28] Voice 2: the advisory planning commission bylaws have a line in it that authorizes the chair of the apc

[5:01:35] Voice 2: to expel somebody from a meeting if they're acting inappropriately so i don't think you can ban them

[5:01:41] Voice 2: from subsequent meetings but you can certainly ask that they leave and if they won't you can

[5:01:45] Voice 2: end the meeting and report to staff and we'll figure out how to proceed from there. Local

[5:01:53] Voice 2: trust committees it's similar I think the chair has the right to expel somebody from the meeting

[5:01:58] Voice 2: or call the meeting if it gets out of control and just put an end to it. Yep thanks. Anything

[5:02:08] Trustee Luckham: Anything else there, Dan, that concludes that discussion?

[5:02:10] Trustee Rogers: No, it's been thankfully very rare, so.

[5:02:15] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so 9.2.15, also vice chair Rogers,

[5:02:20] Trustee Luckham: scope of authority of the local trust committee,

[5:02:22] Trustee Luckham: over to you.

[5:02:23] Trustee Rogers: Well, I've asked a series of questions

[5:02:25] Trustee Rogers: that have arisen for me and it may be that,

[5:02:31] Trustee Rogers: and I thought it best to bring the EC

[5:02:33] Trustee Rogers: because I thought other vice chairs

[5:02:35] Trustee Rogers: may have had similar questions arise

[5:02:37] Trustee Rogers: eyes for them uh at times where i'm getting different um answers at different local trust

[5:02:45] Trustee Rogers: committees from different staff and so i would like to get some clarity around those and i i

[5:02:51] Trustee Rogers: again i don't need to have an answer today if if there needs to be some work on this but it's

[5:02:57] Trustee Rogers: it arises from time to time as we're working through the monday the mandate the actual work

[5:03:02] Trustee Rogers: of the local trust committees that we're doing on an ongoing basis like uh conditions around dvps

[5:03:09] Trustee Rogers: about uh what the scope of it i think there's often a a a misunderstanding of what a trustees

[5:03:16] Trustee Rogers: local trust committee can or can't do regarding a development permit um and uh and then the the

[5:03:22] Trustee Rogers: second one was about putting a moratorium on certain types of tps because i was advised at

[5:03:29] Trustee Rogers: of recent LTC that we couldn't do that, even though we had done it on a different island.

[5:03:35] Trustee Rogers: So I wanted to get some clarity around those. And if the director wants to sort of consider

[5:03:42] Trustee Rogers: those questions and come back and answer them at some point, that's fine. But I would like

[5:03:46] Trustee Rogers: to get some clarity who helped me win my actions as a chair of LTC.

[5:03:53] Trustee Rogers: Yeah,

[5:03:55] Voice 2: if I may, through the chair, I'm happy to do an email or something writing back to

[5:04:01] Voice 2: the executive on all three of these. Just briefly, I have talked to the planning staff

[5:04:07] Voice 2: and the regional planning managers about some of these. The first one, you know, around

[5:04:13] Voice 2: a development variance permit, you can't unilaterally put a condition on there. You're asked to

[5:04:19] Voice 2: consider what the applicant has asked for and that's what the public is aware of when we pay

[5:04:24] Voice 2: that out for referral but if the applicant agrees or offers to put a condition on that's actually

[5:04:31] Voice 2: okay. There was a case where I think it was Dem and Unilaterally put a condition on and it got

[5:04:38] Voice 2: challenged and we had to back down and I think that's happened once or twice so I'll give you

[5:04:43] Voice 2: more details on it but I can certainly write that one. The second one again is you have to receive

[5:04:49] Voice 2: applications but you can certainly let the public know that if there's a conflict with another

[5:04:56] Voice 2: process such as an OCP review that you're likely going to put it into abeyance and I think Robert

[5:05:03] Voice 2: Kojima's had some wording from young Anderson around the best way to do that so I can provide

[5:05:08] Voice 2: that to you as well and then respect to the third one with development permits the best way to have

[5:05:14] Voice 2: control over say a report that's been submitted is for the local trust committee to have a

[5:05:21] Voice 2: development approval information bylaw because that then lays out specifically what the report

[5:05:27] Voice 2: has to have qualifications and then staff could actually reject it and request a revision

[5:05:35] Voice 2: without a DAI bylaw if somebody was to submit something substandard and staff felt it wasn't

[5:05:42] Voice 2: appropriate we would let the trust committee know and I think you'd be fine to be able to turn down

[5:05:47] Voice 2: the application on the basis that the information doesn't address or doesn't answer the question

[5:05:55] Voice 2: or doesn't clearly indicate how the guidelines have been met but that always creates a bit of

[5:06:01] Voice 2: a concern if it's just an argument over the qualifications for example anyway i'm happy to

[5:06:07] Voice 2: put something in writing and i'll probably work with your rpms on that if you would like um in

[5:06:13] Voice 2: fact i don't need a resolution the ec if danny's want to forward that to me i can put that together

[5:06:19] Voice 2: for and then share it with everybody sorry

[5:06:22] Trustee Rogers: for what do you i

[5:06:24] Voice 2: just followed this um as we can

[5:06:26] Voice 2: can

[5:06:26] Trustee Rogers: just take it oh yeah i can

[5:06:28] Voice 2: take it yeah i'll just

[5:06:30] Trustee Rogers: take that out of here thank you thank you

[5:06:32] Trustee Rogers: that's fine that's great that'll help me going forward when these issues thank you okay

[5:06:39] Trustee Luckham: so thank

[5:06:41] Trustee Luckham: you everybody and so i'm going to move along on the agenda here now um and that takes us to 10

[5:06:49] Trustee Luckham: section 10 um and we have 10.1.1 request for executive committee sponsorship of a development

[5:06:56] Trustee Luckham: application fee request for decision and David Marla are you going to introduce this yes I will

[5:07:03] Voice 2: um so this is come far from uh main island excuse me um this is her temporary use permit

[5:07:12] Voice 2: for the main island agricultural society and fall fair may SF I think it is so they meet the

[5:07:19] Voice 2: requirement is a registered charitable not-for-profit society and they've applied for TUP

[5:07:26] Voice 2: it's for a thrift store archive and museum storage in an existing dwelling and then the fall fair

[5:07:34] Voice 2: activities that support them so the TUP has already been approved by the main island local

[5:07:40] Voice 2: trust committee in June and it was issued on June 23rd so the report just indicates what

[5:07:47] Voice 2: what that does on page 60.

[5:07:51] Voice 2: They are going to be looking to make a future OCP amendment

[5:07:54] Voice 2: and rezoning application on this property.

[5:08:00] Voice 2: So this TUP is to allow the uses

[5:08:03] Voice 2: until that process is finalized.

[5:08:05] Voice 2: The financial implications,

[5:08:08] Voice 2: you have $5,000 in the budget for this

[5:08:13] Voice 2: and you already approved a sponsorship of four thousand nine hundred and fifty dollars

[5:08:20] Voice 2: so you got fifty dollars left in that account so if you were to approve this it would overspend

[5:08:26] Voice 2: the account by one thousand and fifty dollars this is an ask for eleven hundred dollars

[5:08:32] Voice 2: so the recommendation is really based on the policy that it fits the policy so notwithstanding

[5:08:41] Voice 2: the fact that you're already pretty close to the budget,

[5:08:46] Voice 2: recommendation is to approve the financial sponsorship.

[5:08:51] Voice 2: And that resolution is on page 60 of the agenda.

[5:08:57] Voice 2: Back to the chair.

[5:09:00] Voice 10: Thank you, David.

[5:09:01] Trustee Luckham: Would the chair of the Maine Island LTC

[5:09:03] Voice 10: like to speak to this?

[5:09:07] Trustee Rogers: I think the director has given a very good application.

[5:09:12] Trustee Rogers: We did grant the TUP, ironically,

[5:09:18] Trustee Rogers: the reconstruction has stopped

[5:09:20] Trustee Rogers: because they didn't get a building permit

[5:09:22] Trustee Rogers: and they now are in the process

[5:09:23] Trustee Rogers: of getting a building permit.

[5:09:25] Trustee Rogers: So that's a bit of a shame,

[5:09:27] Trustee Rogers: but the society here is a very important part

[5:09:32] Trustee Rogers: of the main island community and they have told us

[5:09:37] Trustee Rogers: they're going to bring a rezoning application.

[5:09:42] Trustee Rogers: in the near future too, because it's the building it's on

[5:09:45] Trustee Rogers: is actually zoned residential.

[5:09:47] Trustee Rogers: So they have to rezone it to commercial,

[5:09:50] Trustee Rogers: but it's right on the edge of the commercial zone

[5:09:53] Trustee Rogers: and on main island, like it's right on the next property

[5:09:56] Trustee Rogers: over and so it's an appropriate place for this to occur.

[5:10:00] Trustee Rogers: So I'm happy to make the motion.

[5:10:07] Voice 8: Okay, any other questions?

[5:10:10] Trustee Rogers: I'll move that if no other questions,

[5:10:12] Trustee Rogers: I'll move that the executive committee

[5:10:14] Trustee Rogers: approved financial sponsorship of $1,100, excuse me, for temporary use application MATUP 2021.2

[5:10:25] Trustee Rogers: to allow for a thrift store archive and museum storage within an existing dwelling and fall

[5:10:30] Trustee Rogers: fair activities in the outside area of the subject.

[5:10:37] Trustee Luckham: Moved, seconded by a number of people.

[5:10:39] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Fast, over to you. Any further discussion on this? No? Okay, so then I'm going to call the

[5:10:50] Trustee Luckham: vote then all those in favor and that carries um

[5:10:56] Voice 8: yeah

[5:11:01] Trustee Luckham: okay um i just have some reflections on

[5:11:05] Trustee Luckham: whether or not we might think about this in terms of annual allocations that i think came up in

[5:11:12] Trustee Luckham: consideration of other aspects of granting waiving of fees um but nonetheless uh bring that up

[5:11:21] Trustee Luckham: another time. So if there's nothing further on this item, we'll move along. And the next item

[5:11:27] Trustee Luckham: is at section 10, 10.2.1, LTC chairs reports on local advocacies. I'll just ask for someone to,

[5:11:36] Trustee Luckham: if you have some local advocacy, you'd need to report to the executive committee at this time,

[5:11:39] Trustee Luckham: and you raise your hand and I'll give you the opportunity to address it. Vice Chair Patrick.

[5:11:47] Trustee Luckham: I

[5:11:48] Trustee Patrick: just um if you're following I just saw I know the uh transition Salt Spring is doing quite a bit

[5:11:55] Trustee Patrick: on forestry advocacy and the relationship to wildfire management and so forth so I think it's

[5:12:02] Trustee Patrick: just a pretty good and as well the CRD um electorate not like a emergency programs director

[5:12:12] Trustee Patrick: director with our local fire chief did a wildfire living with wildfire talk

[5:12:19] Trustee Patrick: last week whenever it was it was really well received well done and i'm hoping they you know

[5:12:25] Trustee Patrick: they offer that type of service across the gulf islands because i think a lot of people attended

[5:12:30] Trustee Patrick: and learned quite a bit okay

[5:12:36] Trustee Luckham: thank you anything from anybody else no okay so i'm going to move

[5:12:42] Trustee Luckham: along now into correspondence. The one that was on the original agenda package, a late item 11.2

[5:12:51] Trustee Luckham: was from the Port of Vancouver operations and then a further later one 11.3 from Deputy Minister

[5:12:59] Trustee Luckham: Paganello are all on the agenda here now. So ostensibly what we normally do is determine

[5:13:09] Trustee Luckham: determine whether or not vice chairs would like to take any action on any one of any of these

[5:13:15] Trustee Luckham: pieces of correspondence or just receive them for information. So I will, and I'm prepared to speak

[5:13:21] Trustee Luckham: to 11.2 anyway. Is there anything on any of the other pieces of correspondence? No. Okay. So 11.2,

[5:13:35] Trustee Luckham: it was actually, I think I may be reported on this in that I got out of the blue on a Sunday

[5:13:41] Trustee Luckham: an email from the president of Port of Vancouver, Peter Izetta, I think it is,

[5:13:50] Trustee Luckham: or maybe one of the presidents. I'm not sure of the hierarchy there. Anyway, he wanted to make

[5:13:57] Trustee Luckham: sure to bring to my attention the fact that both of the rail lines at the time that he'd sent the

[5:14:02] Trustee Luckham: email out to us were out of service. The northern link through Lytton was down, and then also

[5:14:11] Trustee Luckham: So the rail line out to eastern Canada was down because of wildfire situations.

[5:14:18] Trustee Luckham: And he wanted to make sure that I was aware that as a result of that, there was going

[5:14:24] Trustee Luckham: to be a backup of freighters into the southern Gulf Islands, into the designated anchorages.

[5:14:29] Trustee Luckham: And I certainly appreciated that outreach.

[5:14:32] Trustee Luckham: And I spoke with him on the phone later.

[5:14:34] Trustee Luckham: and he had offered that he would have one of his captains write a public ready document to us

[5:14:47] Trustee Luckham: that we could circulate and so that's been received and I've just lost for the moment

[5:14:58] Trustee Luckham: what actually happened with it however what it turns out that as this is unfolding I'm actually

[5:15:06] Trustee Luckham: getting now weekly updates from this captain which is very good information and my intention

[5:15:14] Trustee Luckham: at this point is just to forward these to trustees and forward them to the list of

[5:15:21] Trustee Luckham: of Anchorage's advocacy groups that I have

[5:15:24] Trustee Luckham: to keep them informed.

[5:15:26] Trustee Luckham: And so that's, unless you have some other advice for me

[5:15:31] Trustee Luckham: at this time, I don't think this will go on forever,

[5:15:33] Trustee Luckham: but it might go on for the next number of weeks

[5:15:36] Trustee Luckham: as this all stabilizes.

[5:15:39] Trustee Luckham: And so if you thought there was some other direction

[5:15:41] Trustee Luckham: I should take, I would appreciate that.

[5:15:43] Trustee Luckham: But I'll just note that the interesting thing is,

[5:15:47] Trustee Luckham: is that we are seeing different different vessels at anchor in the in amongst the islands now

[5:15:54] Trustee Luckham: including container ships which never used to come here it used to be just grain and the odd

[5:16:00] Trustee Luckham: coal ship i even think i've seen a coal ship now um and so there are some concerns about that and

[5:16:07] Trustee Luckham: it was interesting to note that i had a caught complaint call from somebody

[5:16:12] Trustee Luckham: with respect to a huge wake that disrupted the public dock on Galeano Island,

[5:16:21] Trustee Luckham: which is also something that I'd not heard of before, and the suggestion was that that vessel

[5:16:27] Trustee Luckham: was moving very fast, and I'm going to follow up with the port authority, not the port authority,

[5:16:33] Trustee Luckham: but the pilot authority with respect to that particular vessel. So is there any suggestion

[5:16:39] Trustee Luckham: for anything else other than circulating to trustees and the anchorages groups and i have

[5:16:45] Trustee Luckham: a mailing list i can work from anybody uh trustee patrick um

[5:16:50] Trustee Patrick: there's a south pender resident that's

[5:16:53] Trustee Patrick: on court authority sorry i don't have the email open has yeah

[5:16:57] Trustee Luckham: he he's on my anchorages a she

[5:16:59] Trustee Luckham: list a

[5:17:01] Trustee Patrick: she oh maybe it's her partner

[5:17:03] Trustee Luckham: that's on the list

[5:17:04] Trustee Patrick: but um her question was that you know

[5:17:09] Trustee Patrick: if Islands Trust is getting this information,

[5:17:11] Trustee Patrick: how to get the information to the residents

[5:17:14] Trustee Patrick: that are now observing and seeing the huge number of boats,

[5:17:19] Trustee Patrick: ships that are being parked in our water, sir?

[5:17:24] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, so my intention is in that email

[5:17:26] Trustee Luckham: that trustees and the anchorages advocacy groups

[5:17:30] Trustee Luckham: could circulate it for their communities.

[5:17:34] Trustee Luckham: But if there's another way,

[5:17:36] Trustee Luckham: then it's going to require staff engagement.

[5:17:38] Trustee Luckham: I can't do that.

[5:17:39] Trustee Luckham: okay happy to take advice offline as well so then i'm going to receive the other two items

[5:17:52] Trustee Luckham: for information and then that brings us to our work program review and amendment it's

[5:17:58] Trustee Luckham: it's amended prior to us getting it but it looks like today uh i don't know if the ceo

[5:18:04] Trustee Luckham: wanted to speak to it but i'll just ask if there's any questions really

[5:18:08] Trustee Luckham: the ceo doesn't want to speak to it and any questions nope okay so then this then brings

[5:18:16] Trustee Luckham: us to our next meeting will be August the 4th according to this and therefore now we have an

[5:18:24] Trustee Luckham: in-camera meeting that came late I hope that you received that I don't see a motion here actually

[5:18:31] Trustee Luckham: to put this into context Lori did you have one there that we could put up on the screen for

[5:18:37] Trustee Luckham: somebody to read I

[5:18:38] Voice 11: do have it

[5:18:39] Trustee Luckham: I'm just finding it one moment

[5:18:41] Trustee Luckham: thank you all right then so for

[5:18:48] Trustee Luckham: for members of the public, we are going to go in camera

[5:18:51] Trustee Luckham: and we will not be, well, we will return to a public meeting

[5:18:56] Trustee Luckham: but we will then immediately adjourn that meeting.

[5:18:59] Trustee Luckham: And so we will be reporting out on anything

[5:19:02] Trustee Luckham: that is necessary to report at the beginning

[5:19:05] Trustee Luckham: of our next meeting with respect to the in-camera session.

[5:19:09] Trustee Luckham: So thank everybody for joining us today.

[5:19:11] Trustee Luckham: And I'm going to turn this to a vice chair to make a motion.

[5:19:15] Trustee Luckham: I'll

[5:19:21] Trustee Rogers: move that the executive committee

[5:19:23] Trustee Rogers: closed this meeting of the public subject

[5:19:24] Trustee Rogers: to section 91 C and D E of the community charter

[5:19:28] Trustee Rogers: in order to consider matters related to labor relations

[5:19:30] Trustee Rogers: or other employee relations and the acquisition,

[5:19:33] Trustee Rogers: disposition or expropriate of land

[5:19:38] Trustee Rogers: or improvements committee commit, sorry,

[5:19:42] Trustee Rogers: considers the disclosure could reasonably be expected

[5:19:44] Trustee Rogers: to harm the interest of the local trust area

[5:19:46] Trustee Rogers: and that staff be invited to remain in the meeting.

[5:19:55] Trustee Luckham: seconded by trustee patrick any uh all those in favor that carries and so now we are in camera

[5:20:05] Trustee Luckham: and i'll just give laurie a moment to turn off the recording and the live streaming and then we'll

[5:20:11] Trustee Luckham: i'll

[5:20:12] Voice 11: give the attendee a moment to remove themselves but otherwise i'm going to be

[5:20:15] Voice 11: removing you shortly in a moment okay i'll be removing the attendee now thank you oh there

[5:20:23] Voice 11: They're gone. And let me lock this, please.