Islands Trust Executive Committee regular meeting, September 2, 2021

[0:00:00] Voice 4: Okay. Thank you, Laurie. Well, welcome everyone that's joined us already. Just

[0:00:06] Voice 7: bear

[0:00:07] Voice 4: with me a moment while I get my

[0:00:10] Voice 5: speaking notes up here. There we go.

[0:00:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay. So good morning,

[0:00:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): everyone. Good morning to members of the public and perhaps trustees that are viewing us

[0:00:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): electronically today. My name is Peter Luckum. I'm elected on Thetis Island. I'm currently in Alberta

[0:00:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): and I want to recognize the First Nations territory here and obviously also want to

[0:00:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): recognize the Koshoas territory that we normally live and work in and the Executive Committee

[0:00:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): many members of staff are spread all the way from Lugunkun territory to Squamish territory and

[0:01:03] Trustee Luckham (probable): beyond. So it's a rich cultural historic place, rich with knowledge that we just need to open

[0:01:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): ourselves up to learn. And it's certainly an honor and privilege to have those opportunities day to

[0:01:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): today. Just quick introductions to my colleagues here. I have Sue Ellen Fast, Councillor and

[0:01:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): Trustee at Bowen Island Municipality. I have Dan Rogers, elected in the Gambier-Keats Trust

[0:01:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): area, lives on Keats Island. And Trustee Laura Patrick on Salt Spring Island.

[0:01:46] Voice 5: And then through

[0:01:47] Voice 5: Through our staff here, we have our CAO, Russ Hotzenpiller.

[0:01:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): Good morning.

[0:01:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): Director of Trust Area Services, Claire Frader.

[0:01:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): Good morning.

[0:01:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): We have Carmen Teal, Director of Legislative Services.

[0:02:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): Lisa Wilcox, our Intergovernmental Liaison.

[0:02:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): Thank you, Lisa.

[0:02:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): Lori Foster in the background, looking after our technology and minutes and everything.

[0:02:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): We wouldn't survive without you.

[0:02:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): Thank you.

[0:02:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): David Mahler, Director of

[0:02:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): Regional Planning Services,

[0:02:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): we call it now.

[0:02:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): And then I see, huh?

[0:02:25] Voice 10: Regional Planning Services, Local Planning Services.

[0:02:29] Trustee Luckham (probable): Oh, you're still Local Planning Services, okay.

[0:02:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): Regional Planning Committee.

[0:02:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): All right.

[0:02:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): So, and I recognize Molly Steeves, who I don't know,

[0:02:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): but is here today on behalf of MODIS.

[0:02:43] Trustee Luckham (probable): And I want to thank you for joining us today.

[0:02:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): and we're just going to quickly look after some administrative necessities and we had I'll just

[0:02:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): seek well actually so that's the introductions we're going to advance the plan was to advance

[0:02:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): the trust area services section on the policy statement amendment engagement plan as the first

[0:03:04] Trustee Luckham (probable): item of business today and so let's with that go to the agenda and there is

[0:03:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): agenda before us and and as I've mentioned I would like to advance the

[0:03:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): trust area services item policy statement amendments as we have Molly

[0:03:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): Steve's with us early and that'll give us let's hope the morning to address

[0:03:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): that and then we can go to trust council meeting preparation work from the executive uh in sections

[0:03:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): 5.11 through 1 5.1.3 um either this afternoon or after the policy statement amendment engagement

[0:03:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): plan work is and if that's all right with uh uh vice chairs um i'll ask if there's any other

[0:03:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): changes or additions or deletions from the agenda no okay so

[0:03:58] Voice 13: then mr chair

[0:03:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): oh yes go ahead um i

[0:04:01] Voice 13: I believe we did want to have a discussion around the meeting with, um,

[0:04:05] Voice 13: the minister of individual relations and reconciliation.

[0:04:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): Thank you for reminding me of that. So let's put that under new business.

[0:04:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): Um, and Lisa Wilcox will join us for that as well.

[0:04:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): Um, and so let's call that Murr, uh, meeting, uh,

[0:04:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): briefing or discussion. I'll call it actually.

[0:04:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): um and then we'll put that under section six is that okay all right thank you um so then

[0:04:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): with that i will ask that we adopt the agenda by general consent um as amended and um we'll

[0:04:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): move on so thank you very much um the so that's your approval of agenda so rising report from our

[0:04:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): Our last meeting, we did have an in-camera session, and in that session, we, oh, I see

[0:05:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): Laurie's even brought that up for me.

[0:05:08] Voice 4: Thank you.

[0:05:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): Too small to read.

[0:05:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): At the August 4th meeting, we adopted the minutes of the July 21st Executive Committee

[0:05:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): closed meeting, and there's nothing further to rise and report on.

[0:05:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): on. So that concludes that. Adoption of the minutes of our August 4th meeting are contained

[0:05:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): in the package and I'll just ask Vice-Chair if there's any changes to those minutes.

[0:05:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): No, not seeing any. Then let's adopt the minutes of August 4th by general consent as presented.

[0:05:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay, so this moves us then to Trust Council meeting preparation and we agreed to advance

[0:05:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): advance 5.2.1 policy statement amendment engagement plan briefing I want to thank everybody for the

[0:05:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): tremendous effort in getting this to us even late it's a substantial document quite a bit of study

[0:06:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): and appreciate the commitment that executive committee has also made to reviewing this in

[0:06:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): time for today and in preparation for council so at this point I'd like to turn it over to the CEO

[0:06:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): CEO Russ Hotzenpiller to introduce not only Molly but also the report summarized expectations for

[0:06:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): this meeting perhaps that you have and then we'll start it we'll hear what Molly Steeves

[0:06:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): would like to tell us and then we'll have a discussion over to you CAO Hotzenpiller.

[0:06:42] Voice 13: Thank you very much Chair Luckum and good morning to Executive Committee good to be with you all

[0:06:46] Voice 13: all. Indeed, we have in front of us the result of some significant work over the last four and a

[0:06:55] Voice 13: half weeks. And if I'm just going to give a brief five-minute introduction to where we are and some

[0:07:03] Voice 13: key points, and then essentially turn it over to Molly for a review, and then really get into the

[0:07:09] Voice 13: meat of the discussion, which is the strategy itself. First of all, the goal and the purpose

[0:07:14] Voice 13: of this meeting is to introduce you to the stage three or part three engagement strategy for the

[0:07:23] Voice 13: policy statement project. Given that there is a tendency to go sort of line by line through this

[0:07:32] Voice 13: thing and look through pieces, I think certainly any editorial suggestions are welcome and those

[0:07:39] Voice 13: should be forwarded to Claire and amended into the document, but our real purpose here is to look at

[0:07:46] Voice 13: the strategy elements themselves and to either do one of two or three things. Forward the document

[0:07:55] Voice 13: ultimately to Trust Council so that it would appear again on the September 8th MEC meeting,

[0:08:01] Voice 13: make some comments or changes that we would attempt to make to the engagement strategy such

[0:08:08] Voice 13: such that it goes forward to Trust Council or other.

[0:08:11] Voice 13: So those are really our key objectives today.

[0:08:16] Voice 13: Ultimately, we're looking towards following your direction

[0:08:18] Voice 13: and the direction of Trust Council to get an endorsement of the strategy,

[0:08:22] Voice 13: both at Executive Committee and at Trust Council,

[0:08:25] Voice 13: so we can proceed with the project.

[0:08:27] Voice 13: Just briefly, I'm going to go through our timelines here.

[0:08:30] Voice 13: July 8th, we had a special meeting,

[0:08:32] Voice 13: and at that meeting, for consideration of first reading of the policy statement,

[0:08:37] Voice 13: there was a reconsideration by Trust Council and a request to develop a revised project charter

[0:08:43] Voice 13: for public engagement on the draft new policy statement for approval and implementation by

[0:08:48] Voice 13: the Islands Trust Executive Committee by the end of August 2021. That was in response to

[0:08:53] Voice 13: significant conversation at Trust Council around the engagement process to date whether it was

[0:08:58] Voice 13: satisfactory clear enough and the public was engaged enough to have a substantial conversation

[0:09:03] Voice 13: and input to what we're trying to do with the policy statement.

[0:09:07] Voice 13: And indeed, that was fueled by letters received from community and a variety of different

[0:09:14] Voice 13: inputs to trustees as they were making that decision.

[0:09:17] Voice 13: Following that, on July 21st, Executive Committee directed that we obtain third-party advice

[0:09:22] Voice 13: to develop the next phase of the policy statement engagement process, recognizing the

[0:09:28] Voice 13: the participative democracy is the best method of engagement

[0:09:30] Voice 13: and asking that the engagement have the potential

[0:09:37] Voice 13: to be tailored to different needs.

[0:09:39] Voice 13: Following that, that left us about four and a half weeks

[0:09:46] Voice 13: between the 21st when you met and the 22nd when staff caucused

[0:09:52] Voice 13: to discuss the next steps to engage a consultant

[0:09:55] Voice 13: consultant and to move forward with the process. So we did that rather immediately. And I'm happy

[0:10:02] Voice 13: to say that I called ThinkMotus and I really want to just take this moment to thank Molly and her

[0:10:10] Voice 13: team, Edward and Michael for taking the call, engaging in that conversation in a fairly short

[0:10:17] Voice 13: timeline. Normally a process like this would be in the three and a half to four month range,

[0:10:21] Voice 13: I would say by my by regular calculation and indeed what we had here was four and a half weeks.

[0:10:27] Voice 13: We signed a contract on August 10th and then we went into a workshop on the 12th with staff and

[0:10:33] Voice 13: there's been a series of meetings between Molly and her team and Island's Trust team since then

[0:10:39] Voice 13: leaving us with the draft engagement strategy we've had here which was turned around in about

[0:10:44] Voice 13: two and a half weeks. So I'm about to turn it over to Molly, but I would say that once we have

[0:10:51] Voice 13: this conversation, Claire and myself will then lead you through other considerations associated

[0:10:57] Voice 13: with the engagement strategy. That being a staffing component, depending upon where you want to go

[0:11:03] Voice 13: with the various options inside the strategy, a brief discussion around procurement, and of course

[0:11:11] Voice 13: timing. Timing is going to be, is a significant theme associated with the project. And I think

[0:11:19] Voice 13: we should devote a little bit of time to that. So with that, here we are. You've all had a copy

[0:11:26] Voice 13: of the document for 36 hours or so to give it a good review. And unless you have something to say,

[0:11:32] Voice 13: Claire, I'd like to just turn it over to Molly. Thanks for joining us, Molly. And why don't you

[0:11:38] Voice 13: lead us through a little review or a good review and then the executive community members will

[0:11:44] Voice 13: engage and ask some questions does that seem reasonable chair locum i think he's saying yes

[0:11:55] Voice 13: here

[0:11:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): i'm trying to be respectful and mute um and get caught out again um no that sounds great

[0:12:04] Trustee Luckham (probable): unless claire does have any remarks of her own but i know she's nodding no so um thank you ceo

[0:12:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): Hudson Pillar and thank you Molly and your team for pulling this together for us. So I'll turn

[0:12:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): it over to you. Wonderful.

[0:12:20] Voice 9: Can everyone hear me okay? Great.

[0:12:24] Voice 9: Well thank you very much for the

[0:12:25] Voice 9: opportunity to be here today. We've had a whirlwind for weeks but we've enjoyed getting to know

[0:12:33] Voice 9: the Islands Trust and really get into the process to date and think about the path moving forward.

[0:12:40] Voice 9: So what I've prepared is a brief presentation. I'd like to walk you through the work that we did, some of the analysis that we did, as well as what our recommended steps forward are.

[0:12:55] Voice 9: And then I'd like to just open it to discussion and questions.

[0:13:00] Voice 9: So to start, my name is Molly Steves. I'm a planner and an engagement professional.

[0:13:06] Voice 9: professional. I was born and raised in Treaty 7 territory, but I've been lucky enough to call

[0:13:12] Voice 9: the unceded ancestral and traditional territories of the Musqueam, Squamish, and Tsleil-Waututh

[0:13:17] Voice 9: nations, and that's where I'm joining you from today. I'd like to first introduce MODIS as a

[0:13:26] Voice 9: team. So for this particular project, I was project manager, and I was supported by a really strong

[0:13:32] Voice 9: strong team who has a wealth of experience in engagement projects. So Edward was our project

[0:13:38] Voice 9: director. He's an urban design professional who has spent decades really working in the

[0:13:44] Voice 9: public engagement realm. Patrick and Michael were both advisors to this project. So really

[0:13:50] Voice 9: during the workshop stage and during the strategy development were instrumental in helping move us

[0:13:59] Voice 9: forward and Jean was a junior planner on the team and so MODIS is an integrated design practice

[0:14:05] Voice 9: and what we mean by that is that we are you know comprised of a team who understand planning

[0:14:12] Voice 9: really well who integrate public engagement into virtually all of our projects and so we have that

[0:14:19] Voice 9: kind of integrated skill set that can serve a project like this pretty well because we're

[0:14:24] Voice 9: understanding the policy components, not just the engagement and communication side of things.

[0:14:31] Voice 9: And so that's the folks who were working on preparing this large document over the last

[0:14:37] Voice 9: four weeks. And I wanted you to have a chance to kind of see the faces behind the document itself.

[0:14:45] Voice 9: And so in terms of what we were brought on to do, we were brought on to develop and think about

[0:14:51] Voice 9: the phase three engagement strategy so we know that there has already been a phase one and a

[0:14:57] Voice 9: phase two and there was a little bit of a pause between phase two and phase three and this was

[0:15:02] Voice 9: an opportunity to kind of take stock re-evaluate and put our best foot forward into the next phase

[0:15:08] Voice 9: to address some of the things that we've been hearing from the community and really ensure

[0:15:13] Voice 9: that the next phase addresses those concerns and so we prepared a document which you've had

[0:15:20] Voice 9: a short window of time to review, but we can get into more depth and discussion about

[0:15:25] Voice 9: the components of that today. And so I just kind of wanted to remind all of us around what the

[0:15:32] Voice 9: content of that document was. So really, the first part is a summary of the project to date,

[0:15:40] Voice 9: the process. And then we began to look at some of the target audiences. And so that was really

[0:15:47] Voice 9: developed during the workshop that we had, where we began to map our different stakeholders and

[0:15:53] Voice 9: really try and understand what the key issues for those audiences were, what their concerns were,

[0:15:59] Voice 9: what their hopes and aspirations for this process were, as that was going to be integral to

[0:16:05] Voice 9: developing the strategy as it moved forward. We had a solid review of the work done to date.

[0:16:12] Voice 9: so the phase one and phase two engagement tactics as well as the report backs and from that we

[0:16:21] Voice 9: developed an understanding of you know some of the risks with the project as we move forward

[0:16:26] Voice 9: it's really important to articulate those so that we can mitigate them and think about them

[0:16:31] Voice 9: as we're developing a strategy and being responsive to those we looked at the IEP2 level so

[0:16:39] Voice 9: So IEP2 is the International Association of Public Participation.

[0:16:44] Voice 9: It's one of the kind of preeminent organizations around public participation.

[0:16:50] Voice 9: And I'll get into that a little bit more later in the presentation.

[0:16:56] Voice 9: And then we built upon the engagement principles, which were articulated at the outset of the

[0:17:02] Voice 9: Islands 2050 process, developed some objectives, and then we developed a section around our

[0:17:08] Voice 9: recommendations.

[0:17:10] Voice 9: So helping with some key messages, generally speaking about the process, about the policy statement itself, and then develop some key messages also around the reconciliations and First Nations engagement component, which is a separate but concurrent process.

[0:17:30] Voice 9: From there, we developed three scenarios for us to consider, and I'll get into more depth on those later in the presentation as well.

[0:17:40] Voice 9: um given our consideration of everything within the background chapter we make a recommendation

[0:17:47] Voice 9: about which strategy might be setting us up for success best and then discuss some of the tools

[0:17:54] Voice 9: and techniques and finally we discuss how to evaluate our efforts and the importance of

[0:18:00] Voice 9: evaluating our efforts so in terms of the islands 2050 process to date i've included this process

[0:18:11] Voice 9: diagram, which you all no doubt are very familiar with by the stage in the process.

[0:18:16] Voice 9: So as I said, a big part of the work that we were doing at the outset was really looking at the

[0:18:21] Voice 9: phase one and phase two engagement activities and outcomes. And I do want to say that in terms of

[0:18:29] Voice 9: success of those two phases, it's important to note that those two phases had higher reach

[0:18:35] Voice 9: than any other trust-wide process. So within phase one itself, there was 24 events. And we saw

[0:18:45] Voice 9: over 700 people submitting ideas on ThoughtExchange. People are able to rank ideas

[0:18:52] Voice 9: on ThoughtExchange. And there was over 24,000 rankings on that, 130 plus fairy touch points.

[0:18:58] Voice 9: So there was good reach and I think a very significant improvement on previous trust-wide processes.

[0:19:07] Voice 9: And I want to start there.

[0:19:09] Voice 9: And then, you know, from that first phase and from those activities with the What We Heard report, the report back was clear.

[0:19:17] Voice 9: It identified values for folks who had participated in the process to date.

[0:19:22] Voice 9: and we were really hearing clearly in terms of what people valued that it was about a connection

[0:19:28] Voice 9: to nature the preserve and protect mandate the rural island culture but as we move forward

[0:19:37] Voice 9: people felt as though there was a bit of a missing link between the values that were identified

[0:19:43] Voice 9: during that phase and how those actually were integrated into the draft policy statement itself

[0:19:48] Voice 9: So that's a pretty significant opportunity, I think, in terms of how to move forward and in thinking about our communication. We need to make that link between what we learned and how we applied that to the work as we go forward.

[0:20:06] Voice 9: forward. And as you all well know, during phase one and phase two, there started to be really

[0:20:13] Voice 9: clear feedback from the public about a desire for improved communications, improved information

[0:20:21] Voice 9: about how the engagement process was feeding into the work as it progresses. And we started to begin

[0:20:28] Voice 9: to see some misinformation spreading online through online channels and so in part because

[0:20:36] Voice 9: of that communication for the projects began to you know be reactive to that and a lot of

[0:20:44] Voice 9: staff time was focused on on reactive communication instead of proactive communication.

[0:20:49] Voice 9: communication. So I think it's important to articulate at the outset, you know, why are we

[0:20:58] Voice 9: engaging? What is the importance of engaging? Especially as we move into this third phase.

[0:21:04] Voice 9: So part of what we did is we just really tried to simplify, you know, and answer the question,

[0:21:09] Voice 9: why is Islands Trust engaging for phase three? And so the first point is we really want to help

[0:21:14] Voice 9: confirm what residents and stakeholders value about the Islands Trust area. We have some really

[0:21:19] Voice 9: good information from that from phase one and two but we want to confirm that because there has been

[0:21:24] Voice 9: um you know a little bit of a a moment of pause within the project itself um we want to begin

[0:21:33] Voice 9: and continue to gather resident and stakeholder input on the key policy statement topic so really

[0:21:39] Voice 9: this phase is about the policy statement um we've we've uh we have information around values so we

[0:21:46] Voice 9: We really want to be sure we're engaging on the policy statement itself.

[0:21:51] Voice 9: We want to ensure that resident and stakeholder priorities and values are heard.

[0:21:56] Voice 9: And, you know, all of this is exceeding the requirements.

[0:21:59] Voice 9: There's currently no legislative requirement to engage.

[0:22:02] Voice 9: So the good news is that, you know, the Islands Trust is deeply committed to this process,

[0:22:07] Voice 9: to all of the three bullet points above.

[0:22:10] Voice 9: And that's far beyond what is required.

[0:22:13] Voice 9: required. And so, you know, to further extrapolate on that, the intentions for the third phase

[0:22:22] Voice 9: are to build relationships and continue building trust with the key constituents of the island,

[0:22:30] Voice 9: Islands Trust. And this goes beyond the Islands 2050 project. This is going to be an ongoing

[0:22:36] Voice 9: relationship that is going to be nurtured and fostered through all engagement activities

[0:22:41] Voice 9: moving forward. One of the things that we'd really like to do is to increase the number of folks that

[0:22:50] Voice 9: are engaged with. So building upon the good work that was done in phase one and two in terms of

[0:22:56] Voice 9: increasing the reach, we want to continue to do that. And importantly, we want to broaden the

[0:23:01] Voice 9: range of the people that we're speaking with. So we don't want to just give voice to the loudest

[0:23:06] Voice 9: voices. We want to ensure that we're reaching out with intention to those who are more seldom

[0:23:13] Voice 9: heard within processes like this. We want to give the Islands Trust community a voice. We want them

[0:23:23] Voice 9: to have the feeling that they're reflected within this update. And we want them to feel proud and

[0:23:28] Voice 9: included of the work that's being done. There is, you know, a lot of leadership being taken within

[0:23:34] Voice 9: within the policy statement itself.

[0:23:35] Voice 9: And it's important that the community feels part of that.

[0:23:41] Voice 9: We really need to be clear about how we're communicating

[0:23:45] Voice 9: about the public input and how it's going to be utilized

[0:23:49] Voice 9: throughout the process and make a clear commitment to that.

[0:23:53] Voice 9: And we want to honor the concurrent First Nations

[0:23:56] Voice 9: engagement process and relationship building

[0:23:58] Voice 9: and the good work that's been done

[0:23:59] Voice 9: in on that engagement stream as well.

[0:24:06] Voice 9: Um, finally, we are, yeah, for the last three, we want to ensure that, um, you know, the policy

[0:24:11] Voice 9: statement itself is a meaningful update. Um, you know, we're, we're, we're wanting to ensure that

[0:24:17] Voice 9: there's a strong policy response to some of the most significant challenges of our time,

[0:24:22] Voice 9: which is climate change, affordable housing and reconciliation. Um, we want to, uh, also increase

[0:24:29] Voice 9: our understanding, um, of the Island's trust itself, the role that the policy statement plays

[0:24:35] Voice 9: for the Islands Trust and help bring clarity to some of the governance structure because there

[0:24:42] Voice 9: has been you know a lot of questions and I think misinformation spreading with regards to to that

[0:24:48] Voice 9: and finally one of the objectives for this phase certainly is to have final adoption and public

[0:24:54] Voice 9: endorsement of the policy statement so as we were working through you know all of the information

[0:25:03] Voice 9: information, we sought to articulate principles going forward. And so there were already engagement

[0:25:11] Voice 9: principles identified at the outset of the project. And those are here on screen. No doubt you are all

[0:25:17] Voice 9: familiar with these. These are all the right principles. This is how we want to be guiding.

[0:25:22] Voice 9: These are best practice. Certainly we want open, authentic. We want to be transparent and all of

[0:25:30] Voice 9: those things and these I think a good way to think about these are the are the backbone of

[0:25:37] Voice 9: the engagement process so these are the things that we want to come back to as part of our

[0:25:41] Voice 9: evaluation and see were we able to achieve that and not just at the end but as we're working

[0:25:46] Voice 9: through the process itself because these are really the things that are kind of like our

[0:25:51] Voice 9: guiding stars for our engagement so this is a great foundation and upon that we added an extra

[0:25:59] Voice 9: or five for this phase. And I've already mentioned these kind of in my preamble and in my discussion

[0:26:06] Voice 9: thus far. So I won't read each of these to you. They're within the document. But we want to

[0:26:14] Voice 9: broaden the reach. That's a really important goal for this third phase. We want to diversify our

[0:26:19] Voice 9: methods and ensure that we're considering methods that are being brought forward and being suggested

[0:26:26] Voice 9: for this process. We want to ensure that all of our questions are really well framed and that

[0:26:32] Voice 9: people have the information that they need to make informed decisions and that they have the

[0:26:39] Voice 9: information needed to combat some of the misinformation that has been spreading.

[0:26:44] Voice 9: We really want to be sure that we're closing the loop. So we're not going to be asking for

[0:26:48] Voice 9: for feedback unless we will report back and and clearly commit to how that's being used

[0:26:55] Voice 9: and most importantly this is a process to build trust so we need to really respect that and honor

[0:27:02] Voice 9: this trust building process and and and really root our actions within within that trust building

[0:27:09] Voice 9: for residents for non-residents and for all residents of British Columbia. So before I dive

[0:27:18] Voice 9: into the recommendations themselves, I do want to have a little bit of a discussion around risks.

[0:27:25] Voice 9: So we've identified here five risks for this process. And I think it's important for us to

[0:27:31] Voice 9: kind of look through those to inform our discussion afterwards. So one of the risks,

[0:27:38] Voice 9: and I know that Claire and Russ will be speaking to this after my presentation, is around staffing

[0:27:43] Voice 9: staffing and resourcing. So we want to make sure that a process like this, especially if our goals

[0:27:48] Voice 9: are to increase the reach and to diversify the methods, is properly resourced. So Islands Trust

[0:27:56] Voice 9: staff currently are quite stretched in terms of their capacity. And so we need to ensure that,

[0:28:03] Voice 9: you know, they're well supported in this, either through the use of engagement consultants

[0:28:08] Voice 9: consultants um or or otherwise but even in the situation where we were to bring on or you were

[0:28:16] Voice 9: to bring on engagement consultants there would need to be proper staff resourcing in order to

[0:28:21] Voice 9: support that consultant because there's a lot of nuanced knowledge um that that needs to be um

[0:28:27] Voice 9: coming from the islands trust itself as trust staff the timeline itself so um we know that

[0:28:36] Voice 9: that there's a direction towards first reading in December.

[0:28:41] Voice 9: From our perspective, that is too short of a window

[0:28:47] Voice 9: to achieve the objectives that we want to achieve.

[0:28:52] Voice 9: And so we've kind of moved forward with a recommendation

[0:28:57] Voice 9: and understanding that the first reading would be in March,

[0:29:01] Voice 9: which allows us a little bit more time

[0:29:03] Voice 9: to meaningfully build that trust um but even with the first reading in march it's a pretty it's it's

[0:29:10] Voice 9: it's a timeline that requires action and requires that resourcing to to ensure that we're able to

[0:29:17] Voice 9: um you know do to undertake the activities to to do and achieve those objectives

[0:29:25] Voice 9: um the budget uh is another one that we need to mention so uh the current budget allocated for

[0:29:32] Voice 9: this phase is low and we know that if we want to bring on an engagement consultant we'll need to

[0:29:39] Voice 9: consider how that would influence the budget. Certainly it would be more capital intensive than

[0:29:48] Voice 9: if it were staff led. We want to be clear around our expectations. So we have a lot of expectations

[0:29:58] Voice 9: around this.

[0:30:00] Voice 9: We are hoping, you know, to build trust. We're hoping to really gather meaningful input to inform the policy statement as we move forward. And we want to be sure that we're being realistic about what can be achieved.

[0:30:13] Voice 9: believed um so i think we we just want to be mindful of that and then uh the final one is

[0:30:20] Voice 9: the misinformation so during the previous rounds of engagement um as i as i mentioned we've seen

[0:30:26] Voice 9: misinformation um where it's head um and we really need to be sure that as i said we're we're kind of

[0:30:34] Voice 9: providing people with the facts and the information that they need in order to make uh informed

[0:30:39] Voice 9: decisions and so so that's something that we just want to flag at this point as well so i want to

[0:30:48] Voice 9: spend a moment on the ip2 spectrum itself so um it's the international association of public

[0:30:54] Voice 9: participation and really they set the core values and the code of ethics for public participation

[0:31:00] Voice 9: it's a very large network of engagement professionals um and they have a spectrum for

[0:31:07] Voice 9: for the role of the public, and it helps engagement professionals and project teams

[0:31:16] Voice 9: articulate the goal for the engagement activities and what the promise to the public is.

[0:31:22] Voice 9: And so often at the outset of an engagement strategy, we'll look to this and figure out

[0:31:27] Voice 9: and determine the levels of engagement that we want to reach. And it's important to consider

[0:31:33] Voice 9: a variety of different things, several inputs when you're thinking about the IEP2 spectrum and where

[0:31:40] Voice 9: where the projects should sit. So you're looking at a confluence of internal expectations. So,

[0:31:47] Voice 9: you know, the resources available from a time, staff and money perspective,

[0:31:54] Voice 9: you're considering the decision makers and the project team, you're looking at what's legally

[0:31:59] Voice 9: legally required. You're looking at external and public expectations as well. So what is their

[0:32:05] Voice 9: level of interest? How will they be impacted by the process? And so for this project, we had begun

[0:32:13] Voice 9: at an inform and a consult level. And we recommend that we move forward with an inform and consult

[0:32:21] Voice 9: level. However, we really need to be clear around, I'm just going to close this as someone started to

[0:32:27] Voice 9: mow the lawn outside um we need to be really clear about the the promise to the public so this um

[0:32:35] Voice 9: here shows what the goal is under each of those so for inform informants to provide balanced and

[0:32:41] Voice 9: objective uh information in a timely manner and the promise to the public is we are going to

[0:32:47] Voice 9: ensure that you're well informed about the process if there's any alterations to the process any

[0:32:51] Voice 9: any pauses, you're going to be informed of that in a timely manner. And for consult, the goal is to

[0:32:58] Voice 9: get feedback, to be able to inform the development of the project as it moves forward.

[0:33:06] Voice 9: And the promise to the public is, we are going to listen to you. We're going to, you know, take the

[0:33:11] Voice 9: time to understand your concerns. And we'll acknowledge that as we're moving forward.

[0:33:17] Voice 9: forward. So from there, we developed this set of high level recommendations. These are written

[0:33:25] Voice 9: about in more length in the document itself. And these kind of address some of the risks. So

[0:33:32] Voice 9: moving forward, we want to be realistic about our capacity. We want to expand the reach. We want to

[0:33:38] Voice 9: be very clear on the level of influence and report back. So that's going back to the IEP2 spectrum.

[0:33:44] Voice 9: We really want to be proactive about our communication. So we want to make sure that

[0:33:49] Voice 9: people are well aware of engagement opportunities well in advance we want to share the outcomes of

[0:33:54] Voice 9: those engagement activities in a timely fashion so that people aren't looking for that information

[0:34:01] Voice 9: we really want to share the good news story there's a lot of leadership being shown

[0:34:05] Voice 9: in this process and in this document and we want to remind people about that

[0:34:12] Voice 9: and we also recommend really uh looking to emphasize shared values while encouraging

[0:34:19] Voice 9: consideration of alternate viewpoints so within some of our engagement tactics and techniques

[0:34:25] Voice 9: really encouraging people to kind of step into other people's shoes so that they can consider

[0:34:31] Voice 9: the priorities of somebody who might have a different kind of situation than themselves

[0:34:37] Voice 9: we want to be strategic in our communication so being being concise being clear making sure that

[0:34:44] Voice 9: you know there's clear hierarchies of information so that people know where to get the information

[0:34:49] Voice 9: that they might need. We recommend working on a little bit of a longer timeline to ensure that we

[0:34:56] Voice 9: have some time to build trust and kind of pause and move forward in a meaningful way, in a thoughtful

[0:35:03] Voice 9: way. And we have some recommendations around the budget as well. And so I think just further to

[0:35:12] Voice 9: the level of influence and the clarity that's required around that, I wanted to include this

[0:35:18] Voice 9: diagram which we use in some of our engagement processes in many of our engagement processes

[0:35:23] Voice 9: actually and we call it the weave diagram and we use it as a way to to speak with the public about

[0:35:31] Voice 9: how their input is is weaving into the process and it's important to be clear as is the case

[0:35:40] Voice 9: on this project that the public input is one of several inputs into a project so we're considering

[0:35:47] Voice 9: stakeholder input we're considering the technical expertise that we've gathered through the project

[0:35:53] Voice 9: as it's developed we are looking at direction from first nations from the concurrent

[0:35:59] Voice 9: engagement process and we're looking at direction from council this diagram includes staff here but

[0:36:07] Voice 9: we know that's not the case here and so it this really helps bring clarity to the fact that

[0:36:14] Voice 9: you know, the public is certainly an incredibly important thread to the project. But that input

[0:36:23] Voice 9: is being integrated and considered with other inputs into the project. So this may be helpful

[0:36:32] Voice 9: moving forward. So we looked at three, three engagement scenarios. And really, we looked at

[0:36:41] Voice 9: three different scenarios to help us weigh the risks and benefits with three different approaches

[0:36:47] Voice 9: and what we looked at here was we looked at three different budget levels we looked at three

[0:36:54] Voice 9: different timelines and then we looked at what sort of resourcing would be required from a staff

[0:37:02] Voice 9: and a consultant perspective and then we are identified the communications and engagement

[0:37:08] Voice 9: activities that would be possible within those three scenarios and then evaluated the risks

[0:37:13] Voice 9: which each of with with each of those all of you have those scenarios within your within your

[0:37:19] Voice 9: documents um and we can get into more depth uh on those um in in our conversation um but i will say

[0:37:28] Voice 9: um you know each of these presents you know a different path forward um and different different

[0:37:37] Voice 9: different, different risks and different benefits. But considering our understanding of the timeline

[0:37:45] Voice 9: and the budget and our objectives, we move forward with a recommendation for scenario two.

[0:37:53] Voice 9: And that would be, you know, a timeline from October to late January. And it would enable the

[0:38:03] Voice 9: hiring of an engagement consultant to come and help during the duration of that project.

[0:38:09] Voice 9: That engagement consultant wouldn't be at all engagement events, but could be

[0:38:14] Voice 9: in attendance at major milestone events and lend support in the development of engagement

[0:38:23] Voice 9: materials and that sort of thing. And so from there, we began to think about the proposed

[0:38:32] Voice 9: methods and and flesh those out a little bit more within this second scenario so thinking about the

[0:38:37] Voice 9: phasing um you will note here that the timeline uh is October to late January and that is

[0:38:45] Voice 9: as I mentioned earlier um moving forward with an assumption that there could be a first reading in

[0:38:52] Voice 9: March um we know that there's council direction to have a first reading in December and from our

[0:38:57] Voice 9: professional perspective, we don't see that as being possible. We believe there's the need for

[0:39:03] Voice 9: additional time to have the conversations that need to be had. And so moving from an engagement

[0:39:11] Voice 9: period would last from October to late January to enable a period of time for the policy writers to

[0:39:19] Voice 9: meaningfully integrate the feedback that we received during phase three into a revised

[0:39:24] Voice 9: policy statement for that first reading. So within the document, you will see that we have

[0:39:33] Voice 9: some proposed methods. So we have communication techniques, which are from the inform level of

[0:39:40] Voice 9: IEP2, and engagement techniques, which are from the consult level of IEP2. And I will say, you

[0:39:46] Voice 9: know, there are communications techniques within this engagement strategy, because we've been

[0:39:51] Voice 9: hearing really clearly from people that there's a desire to, you know, have more information about

[0:39:57] Voice 9: opportunities to consult, have more information about the outcomes of the phases, have more

[0:40:04] Voice 9: information about how they connect, can connect to the work as it develops. And so that requires

[0:40:09] Voice 9: a really strong communications response. We need to be ensuring that we're communicating effectively

[0:40:14] Voice 9: and ensuring that people have the facts and information required to make decisions.

[0:40:21] Voice 9: Um, and further to that, these really help us deliver on our two principles, which are

[0:40:26] Voice 9: to be one of several, but, um, help us deliver specifically on being open and authentic and

[0:40:34] Voice 9: closing the loop.

[0:40:36] Voice 9: Um, and so within this scenario to, um, looking to broaden the reach, I've just kind of

[0:40:43] Voice 9: summarized within this graphic, the blue are, um, tactics that are really from the

[0:40:48] Voice 9: informed level um you know good communications good ways of getting the information out

[0:40:54] Voice 9: and then the yellow ones are opportunities to gather input certainly information kiosks that

[0:41:02] Voice 9: fairs and events and pop-ups will have a strong information out component but we all will also

[0:41:07] Voice 9: be able to get information in um and i think one thing to mention is that we have heard from

[0:41:15] Voice 9: from the Islands Trust communities that they do like the opportunity for paper copies.

[0:41:19] Voice 9: So for the online survey and for the fact sheets, we see there being paper copies available at the

[0:41:26] Voice 9: pop-ups, at information kiosks, et cetera, just to ensure that those are available and those are

[0:41:33] Voice 9: accessible to folks who might not have access to digital methods.

[0:41:41] Voice 9: Yes, I think that that's all I have to say here.

[0:41:44] Voice 9: I did want to mention briefly in this presentation, you know, a few things to consider with regards to other methods.

[0:41:52] Voice 9: So we've been hearing, we've heard clearly that there's a desire to have a deliberative process as part of this project.

[0:42:00] Voice 9: And we considered that as we were working through the development of the scenarios.

[0:42:06] Voice 9: scenarios. I think it would be important for us to know whether that would be considered to be a

[0:42:14] Voice 9: deliberative forum or deliberate deliberative polling. I think one thing to consider with

[0:42:20] Voice 9: deliberative techniques is how resource intensive that methodology can be the importance of the

[0:42:30] Voice 9: the recruitment component of that. And so within our understanding of the budget parameters and

[0:42:37] Voice 9: timeline parameters, we don't see that being a potential for the scenario two. But if there were

[0:42:46] Voice 9: to be additional resources brought on, it could be something that could be looked at. There is

[0:42:52] Voice 9: the potential to use deliberative techniques within some of the focus groups or within some

[0:42:57] Voice 9: of the other techniques that we've suggested within scenario two we also looked at the

[0:43:02] Voice 9: possibility of a multi-day multi-stakeholder workshop knowing that those have worked really

[0:43:06] Voice 9: well within other regional scale processes again that's a very resource intensive option and so

[0:43:14] Voice 9: that would likely be only possible under the scenario 3 budget and then i did want to address

[0:43:21] Voice 9: town halls knowing that those have been used within other or within previous processes and

[0:43:27] Voice 9: within the last couple of phases um and you'll notice that it's the only technique that we kind

[0:43:33] Voice 9: of explicitly name as not recommended um and the reason for that is you know we really are seeking

[0:43:40] Voice 9: to broaden the reach to give voice to people who have not yet um participated in the process

[0:43:46] Voice 9: and to encourage folks to hear from other different perspectives within um the islands

[0:43:53] Voice 9: trust area. And town halls can be a method that tend to, you know, give voice to those who have

[0:44:00] Voice 9: the loudest voice. And so we feel like there are other methods that we could use during this phase

[0:44:07] Voice 9: that could be more productive to our goals and to our objectives for this phase. Just a final note,

[0:44:15] Voice 9: or a quick note on digital techniques. We have been finding throughout the pandemic that

[0:44:23] Voice 9: when we're utilizing digital techniques we're actually finding some of our engagement activities

[0:44:28] Voice 9: are better attended folks are finding it a little bit more accessible they don't need to find child

[0:44:34] Voice 9: care they don't need to you know hop on a bus or on a boat to get to an to an an activity

[0:44:40] Voice 9: and so we provided an appendix which includes a really robust listing of different digital

[0:44:49] Voice 9: digital techniques. We know we're in a moment of a little bit of uncertainty with the pandemic as

[0:44:54] Voice 9: we move forward. So we will recommend that this phase is flexible to the movement to digital

[0:45:03] Voice 9: techniques, certainly. And then the final note is around evaluation. So we believe that evaluation

[0:45:13] Voice 9: is a really integral part of any engagement process, not only at the end of the process,

[0:45:19] Voice 9: but throughout. Any engagement strategy is a living document. It needs to be recalibrated

[0:45:26] Voice 9: based on what is working and what isn't working. But this evaluation really informs how to move

[0:45:33] Voice 9: forward on subsequent projects. It really helps reaffirm that trusting relationship building

[0:45:39] Voice 9: approach and so we included a little section on this and and really encourage

[0:45:46] Voice 9: the Islands Trust to go through an evaluation process at the end of this

[0:45:50] Voice 9: and all future engagement activities so I've presented a lot of information here

[0:45:58] Voice 9: I see already that there's a hand up I'm gonna stop here and open up for

[0:46:02] Voice 9: questions and comments.

[0:46:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): Thank you very much, Molly.

[0:46:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): There was a request earlier from Trustee Vice Chair Rogers for you to perhaps just speak

[0:46:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): to deliberative dialogue and what perhaps that means to you to help

[0:46:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): us be on the same

[0:46:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): page.

[0:46:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): I expect this to be the reason for the question.

[0:46:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): Can you

[0:46:28] Voice 9: just touch on that?

[0:46:29] Voice 9: Certainly.

[0:46:30] Voice 9: So deliberative techniques within the IEP2 spectrum and within the IEP2 training, we kind of talk about deliberative polling and a deliberative forum. Those are two different techniques. Deliberative polling is a much more resource intensive methodology that would take place over a longer duration, sometimes months.

[0:46:51] Voice 9: So if we're considering that we're working on a timeframe towards a March first reading, potentially, it would require that to be actioned immediately.

[0:47:04] Voice 9: As I mentioned, the recruitment component of that is also very labor intensive because you're looking within the deliberative polling to have a statistically representative population or participant group.

[0:47:18] Voice 9: group. Deliberative forums are a little bit less labor intensive. And they are known as techniques

[0:47:26] Voice 9: that are very successful within geographically diverse areas, and also on projects that have

[0:47:38] Voice 9: complex, potentially contentious issues. Again, there's the recruitment component of that. So

[0:47:49] Voice 9: Um, and, and, and, and, um, I, they're just typically resource intensive methodologies

[0:47:58] Voice 9: for engagement.

[0:47:59] Voice 9: Um, now, as I said, when I was going through the tactics, I do see there being the potential

[0:48:05] Voice 9: of using some deliberative techniques, perhaps within, if we were to, to, to, um, move forward

[0:48:11] Voice 9: with the multi-day workshop or within some of the focus groups, um, they are really effective

[0:48:17] Voice 9: also at um uh achieving that goal which we've articulated to help others see different

[0:48:24] Voice 9: viewpoints um so i think i i hope that that answers the question i see that there's another

[0:48:31] Voice 9: hand up thanks

[0:48:33] Trustee Rogers (probable): i i don't mean to be um pedantic about this but i have no idea what deliberative

[0:48:38] Trustee Rogers (probable): means and that just might be my own lack of understanding but could you sort of define

[0:48:44] Trustee Rogers (probable): define what you mean when you use the phrase deliberative? Yes.

[0:48:48] Voice 9: Well, deliberative, actually,

[0:48:51] Voice 9: etymologically speaking, the Greeks define deliberation as deep conversation. And so

[0:48:58] Voice 9: deliberation is really when you're sitting down, and you're talking through with a group of

[0:49:03] Voice 9: individuals, complex issues, and you're deliberating back and forth, and you're hearing from others

[0:49:09] Voice 9: about their different viewpoints, and really deep diving into issues. So oftentimes, when we're

[0:49:16] Voice 9: talking about engagement, we talk about broad and deep. So broad is, you know, when you're you're

[0:49:22] Voice 9: casting the net widely to get feedback. And so oftentimes, we do broad engagement at the outset

[0:49:28] Voice 9: of projects, you know, when we're having conversations around values and that sort of

[0:49:33] Voice 9: thing. And the more deep conversations really help us get into nuanced conversations and

[0:49:39] Voice 9: deliberative techniques are usually in that sort of deeper phase of engagement. And so it's, yeah,

[0:49:47] Voice 9: it's working through complex issues and deliberating with kind of multi-stakeholder,

[0:49:55] Voice 9: or multi multi representative groups um does that help is that clear uh

[0:50:02] Trustee Rogers (probable): if i can just put it back on

[0:50:04] Trustee Rogers (probable): your graph about the iap2 where you're talking more about a type 3 or type 4 type of of process

[0:50:13] Voice 9: thank you for tying it back to that because i had made a mental note to do that um yes deliberative

[0:50:19] Voice 9: techniques are often higher than an inform or consult level.

[0:50:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): Thank you. So that maybe gets us off to a start here to perhaps ask questions and seek clarity on

[0:50:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): aspects of this amazing report. Thank you. But I think that in order to keep the conversation

[0:50:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): conversation focused, I'm going to suggest that editorial remarks might be best sent by email to

[0:50:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): staff and Molly, and that if we focused on the content and looking for clarity and your comments

[0:51:03] Trustee Luckham (probable): overall on the recommendations would be perhaps the best. And I'm inclined to maybe start off,

[0:51:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): I certainly have a list of questions and comments,

[0:51:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): and I'm sure that you all do too.

[0:51:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): And so perhaps we could just go around the room.

[0:51:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): It doesn't necessarily allow

[0:51:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): for a sort of a diverse conversation back and forth

[0:51:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): on the individual areas of comment,

[0:51:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): but might be the best way to approach this

[0:51:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): given the amount of time and the number of us that are here.

[0:51:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): Does that sound reasonable?

[0:51:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): And who would like to start?

[0:51:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): just show a hand up otherwise i'll pick somebody see well and fast thank you for jumping in

[0:51:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): sure

[0:51:47] Trustee Fast (probable): i'll i'll start if you don't mind partly because we've got people working on the roof

[0:51:51] Trustee Fast (probable): and it's quiet at the moment so if it starts banging i might uh um mute myself um my uh

[0:52:00] Trustee Fast (probable): i'll just have a couple of questions off the first i didn't see a mention of um i like the report

[0:52:06] Trustee Fast (probable): And I'm happy with the recommendation. So I'll just start off from there. My questions relate to things I may have skimmed over or missed. The referrals that are out now to regional districts and First Nations and Bowen Island Municipality, I didn't see them mentioned in here. Maybe you could fill me in on where they would fit? Or do they just run as long as another parallel?

[0:52:29] Trustee Fast (probable): that's

[0:52:33] Voice 9: a great question um so we are aware of that referrals process um and we know that that's

[0:52:39] Voice 9: already been instigated there's already been referrals being received so we see that as

[0:52:43] Voice 9: you know important and very meaningful feedback uh we were focusing more on kind of the steps

[0:52:50] Voice 9: forward new techniques moving into the next phase which is not certainly not to under undermine or

[0:52:56] Voice 9: replace the referrals process at all. So there perhaps is an opportunity in the next revision

[0:53:02] Voice 9: to bring clarity to that and address that so that we're clear for anyone who's looking at the report

[0:53:09] Voice 9: subsequently that that will be honoured and a part of the inputs going into the revisions and

[0:53:17] Voice 9: policy statement as it moves forward.

[0:53:20] Trustee Fast (probable): Great, thank you. And how about the word

[0:53:23] Trustee Fast (probable): word stakeholders which is used a few times in here can you help me is that the province or is

[0:53:30] Trustee Fast (probable): that a general kind of word i see and stakeholders is used in the executive summary for example

[0:53:36] Voice 9: yeah so um in in in an engagement report often what we'll look at or an engagement strategy

[0:53:45] Voice 9: rather is we'll look at um you know identifying key stakeholders um in addition to the public

[0:53:51] Voice 9: And so stakeholders really is just anyone who has a stake in the project. That's a really simple way of defining it. And so, you know, we have a section within the report that looks at our different audiences. Some of those could be considered stakeholders. It is a word that I think tends to be used interchangeably sometimes with audiences.

[0:54:11] Voice 9: audiences um and so you know i think if if there is kind of a lack of clarity or um uh around how

[0:54:19] Voice 9: we're using these different words it might be helpful to add a little bit of a definition

[0:54:23] Voice 9: section at the outset of the audience chapter to to bring clarity as to why different words might

[0:54:29] Voice 9: be used okay that would be helpful because

[0:54:32] Trustee Fast (probable): i i see it in some places also used with the word public

[0:54:36] Trustee Fast (probable): on the same page and so that to help everybody understand that might be good I wondered under

[0:54:44] Trustee Fast (probable): government participant groups you might add the words Bowen Island Municipality I see regional

[0:54:49] Trustee Fast (probable): districts are there just seemed to me to be missing and so they help everybody feel included

[0:55:00] Trustee Fast (probable): and um

[0:55:01] Trustee Fast (probable): uh and then i'm looking at page 47 just i'll cut to the chase here about addressing

[0:55:10] Trustee Fast (probable): responding to the misinformation um should this happen again which would seem to me uh deliberate

[0:55:18] Trustee Fast (probable): and funded uh parts of parts of the misinformation that i've seen um how will um this plan uh

[0:55:29] Trustee Fast (probable): uh address that I saw a reference to proactive but I uh I didn't see if it comes up again

[0:55:37] Trustee Fast (probable): uh which why wouldn't it um how will it be addressed

[0:55:41] Voice 9: so the misinformation issue is a very

[0:55:45] Voice 9: complex one because a lot of misinformation is being spread on private forums uh that the

[0:55:51] Voice 9: islands trust isn't necessarily islands trust staff isn't necessarily monitoring or engaging

[0:55:56] Voice 9: upon. And so I think it's going to certainly need to be a multi-pronged approach. So what we would

[0:56:04] Voice 9: recommend is, you know, being, you know, being really clear in communications. I think the fact

[0:56:10] Voice 9: sheets can be really helpful in providing clear, concise information on key topics that we may know

[0:56:18] Voice 9: that there is misinformation spreading around. I think that there's an opportunity within this

[0:56:25] Voice 9: second scenario to have a webinar or speaker series where experts can deep dive into some

[0:56:34] Voice 9: of the issues that, you know, are central to the policy statement, but do have some

[0:56:40] Voice 9: misinformation spreading around. As it relates to social media, that's a really challenging

[0:56:46] Voice 9: thing to combat. Social media, as the Islands Trust staff knows, is an incredibly resource

[0:56:54] Voice 9: resource intensive realm to step into. We, you know, oftentimes see information going out as

[0:57:04] Voice 9: part of information, or sorry, engagement strategies. So letting people know about

[0:57:09] Voice 9: engagement opportunities on social media, that sort of thing. But to do proper social media

[0:57:14] Voice 9: monitoring is very resource intensive. And we don't see that as being possible within the second

[0:57:20] Voice 9: scenario budget, it requires a lot of focus and a lot of resource. So we had made note of that

[0:57:29] Voice 9: within the third scenario as being a possibility to kind of do more comprehensive social media

[0:57:37] Voice 9: monitoring and sentiment analysis. And then you'll also have seen within the third scenario

[0:57:43] Voice 9: with that little increase in budget, there's the provision or potential provision of a

[0:57:49] Voice 9: a communications consultant to come on board and that person could help with that sentiment

[0:57:54] Voice 9: monitoring and with that understanding you know with the understanding of the sentiments that are

[0:58:01] Voice 9: part of the social media chatter around this project create communications materials that

[0:58:09] Voice 9: are directly responding to that great thank you very

[0:58:13] Trustee Fast (probable): much I just you know I just am interested in

[0:58:18] Trustee Fast (probable): that option scenario three because of the social media piece and the role I see it playing

[0:58:28] Trustee Fast (probable): partly just because we've got elections going on and all kinds of anti-vaxxing things and

[0:58:32] Trustee Fast (probable): there's it's a huge role now perhaps more than ever before and I'm interested in scenario three

[0:58:41] Trustee Fast (probable): because of these reasons okay thank you I'm over and

[0:58:44] Voice 9: I'll just add one note there I think that

[0:58:46] Voice 9: But, you know, it's a good point to bring up the kind of COVID reality over the next couple months.

[0:58:52] Voice 9: There is a high degree of uncertainty around that.

[0:58:55] Voice 9: And I think that social media also lends itself to the kind of unique geographic makeup of the Islands Trust.

[0:59:04] Voice 9: So it's a way where people are connecting on this issue.

[0:59:07] Voice 9: And we would not like we would recommend social media analysis and sentiment analysis.

[0:59:13] Voice 9: but we wouldn't necessarily recommend wading into these conversations on a one-on-one basis.

[0:59:18] Voice 9: But the fact sheets could be helpful also if there's a large forum on one particular issue

[0:59:23] Voice 9: where there is a fact sheet, it could be helpful to post a link to that so that people could look

[0:59:29] Voice 9: at that information as part of their consideration in their dialogue with their community members.

[0:59:35] Voice 9: Thank you.

[0:59:37] Voice 5: Okay, thank you, Sue Ellen, and thank

[0:59:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): you, Molly, for your answers there. So

[0:59:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): So, Trustee, Vice Chair Patrick and Rogers, which one of you would like to step up to the podium?

[0:59:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): I can go if you want.

[0:59:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you.

[0:59:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right.

[0:59:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): I really first want to thank the Islands Trust staff for how hard they have worked.

[1:00:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): worked and how dedicated they've been to this process and really trying to lead the organization

[1:00:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): on a journey to update the policy statement. I know it's been overwhelming. I'm a person who I

[1:00:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): kind of always like to look back at kind of what happened to try to understand what happened to

[1:00:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): gauge kind of where we go or use the word that you refer to as recalibrate.

[1:00:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): um um but on the other hand i'm okay with where we are today we have to we have to be here we're

[1:00:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): here and to me this this public pushback happened for a reason you know lots of different things and

[1:00:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): and and i actually look at it as an opportunity it's an opportunity to to pivot you know this is

[1:00:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): we're in a time period where there's so much happening and there's a chance that you know

[1:00:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): we can be a stronger organization um in the in the face of all of these crises you know climate

[1:01:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): change biodiversity loss the housing shortfalls um you know we can lean into the reconciliation

[1:01:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): that we're doing and and support with the support of islanders perhaps move forward and be better

[1:01:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): stronger for what's coming um i like the quote uh it's from the book the song of the dodo

[1:01:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): the Island Biogeography in the Age of Extinctions, and it says a high jeopardy of extinction comes

[1:01:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): with territory. Islands are where species go to die. That's David Quammen. This is about

[1:01:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): connectivity. And when we are fragmented, we can't be healthy. And I look at this as applying to what

[1:01:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): what Islands Trust is strong about. We're a federation. If we work together as a group of

[1:01:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): Islanders, we are stronger. And you point out in the report that there is a lack of agreement

[1:02:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): between trustees right now, and it has made the work that's been done difficult for staff.

[1:02:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): They may be compromising, trying to make everyone happy. I note that you have talked about having

[1:02:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): some workshops and so forth with trustees but could you tell us how important is this if we

[1:02:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): continue to be fragmented or in fighting on this issue how important is this to the success of this

[1:02:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): next phase of engagement it's

[1:02:32] Voice 9: integral it's i think very very important um and yes you've you've

[1:02:37] Voice 9: um you've noted something that i think it needs noting um the trustees are are an integral

[1:02:45] Voice 9: role component to this process to to the islands trust itself of course and really can serve as

[1:02:54] Voice 9: champions for this project and so I think you know we noted it's a very brief notation that

[1:03:01] Voice 9: there's an opportunity to do information sessions or briefing sessions at the outset of phase three

[1:03:06] Voice 9: but I think to your point it's really important that the trustees are all on the same page with

[1:03:12] Voice 9: with regards to the objectives of this phase,

[1:03:15] Voice 9: to the importance of the policy statement.

[1:03:18] Voice 9: So while they're out engaging

[1:03:20] Voice 9: and facilitating conversations with their local trust areas,

[1:03:25] Voice 9: they're able to kind of sing from the same song book

[1:03:29] Voice 9: in terms of why we're here today, why we're doing this,

[1:03:32] Voice 9: the importance of the three central themes,

[1:03:35] Voice 9: which is to say housing affordability,

[1:03:38] Voice 9: climate change, reconciliation.

[1:03:39] Voice 9: um it's it's our recommendation that that's an incredibly important component of this and so

[1:03:47] Voice 9: hopefully uh information sessions and briefings can can help with that um you know it it may

[1:03:54] Voice 9: may not be the entire solution but uh i i i would hope that it could help bring people

[1:04:00] Voice 9: together so that you know they're moving forward in a shared direction not in kind of disparate

[1:04:05] Voice 9: pathways so

[1:04:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): i guess if we are still disparate would would and should we go on to the next phase

[1:04:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): that's a tough question that might

[1:04:20] Voice 1: be more political

[1:04:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): i'll just leave that one um i have

[1:04:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): another quote that i love and that's albert einstein's we can't solve problems by using

[1:04:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): the same kind of thinking we used when we created them and i think that's a very important part i

[1:04:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): I can remember some of my first meetings here on the executive, and we were looking at the very, very, very long follow-up action list of trust program services.

[1:04:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I recall we kind of focused on trying to remove things from the lists rather than provide more resources.

[1:04:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): I see Claire sitting there going, yeah.

[1:04:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): So we've known about the resource issue with communications for a long time.

[1:05:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I think you have, again, in this plan acknowledged that we just don't have the capacity for this kind of work. And I think that's critical.

[1:05:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): and um but that leads me so you're you're recommending scenario two and if i understand

[1:05:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): it is primarily because of the budgetary and time timeline constraints and um what would be

[1:05:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): your recommendation is your recommendation for scenario two because you think it's the right one

[1:05:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): for what we're doing um so i i really

[1:05:45] Voice 9: would like to know that um i'll answer your question but

[1:05:50] Voice 9: first i want to jump back to the resourcing um comment that you made um i you know i think it's

[1:05:56] Voice 9: important to note that the resourcing challenge is not just from the communication side of things

[1:06:00] Voice 9: um you know this project in order to to run effectively needs to have proper resourcing

[1:06:05] Voice 9: from the project management management side of things from the writing and content creation

[1:06:10] Voice 9: side of things which is communications related but there's a lot of very nuanced kind of technical

[1:06:15] Voice 9: knowledge that needs to be woven into these public facing documents so I just want to provide that

[1:06:24] Voice 9: important little clarification or reminder that the the resourcing for this project needs to be

[1:06:30] Voice 9: kind of at the project management level as well I know Claire has a lot of a lot of projects to

[1:06:36] Voice 9: to push forward this one being one of many important important ones. In terms of the

[1:06:41] Voice 9: recommendation yes you're correct in in summarizing that our kind of moving forward and exploring the

[1:06:48] Voice 9: phasing for scenario two comes from kind of a pragmatic approach in some regards where we're

[1:06:55] Voice 9: considering timeline and budgetary considerations. I think there is opportunity there the scenario

[1:07:04] Voice 9: Scenario three has a lot of advantages.

[1:07:06] Voice 9: And from a pure engagement, relationship building and trust building perspective, that's the

[1:07:11] Voice 9: more advantageous scenario because you're going to have the opportunity to be really

[1:07:18] Voice 9: well supported as you move through these engagement techniques and tactics.

[1:07:26] Voice 9: You're going to have a communications consultant brought on board who can really help with

[1:07:31] Voice 9: that proactive messaging and ensuring that the information around engagement opportunities is

[1:07:38] Voice 9: being well disseminated and you have the potential to kind of add on techniques that are a little bit

[1:07:45] Voice 9: more responsive to each of the local trust areas needs and potentially integrate in some techniques

[1:07:52] Voice 9: that are you know responding to particular methods that have been requested by either trustees or

[1:08:00] Voice 9: were public. So I guess to answer your question from, yeah, pure relationship building, scenario

[1:08:07] Voice 9: three is the preferred scenario. But you'll see it comes with a price tag.

[1:08:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): Oh, well, thank you. Because I think we're trying to fit to a budget and timeline rather than create

[1:08:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): a budget and timeline to the need. And I think I'll let Trustee Rogers, he's the one that threw

[1:08:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): the $75,000 on the table. It was more of a pull from the air, I think, than it wasn't matched with

[1:08:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): what we needed to do. But

[1:08:36] Voice 9: I'm

[1:08:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): not criticizing you, Trustee Rogers. Well,

[1:08:41] Voice 9: I'm sure also that

[1:08:42] Voice 9: you all are familiar with kind of the project management triangle, where you have a triangle

[1:08:46] Voice 9: and scope is at the top and cost and timer at the other side. And, you know, any calibration to one

[1:08:52] Voice 9: one of those compromises the quality. And so, you know,

[1:08:55] Voice 9: we can't just keep adding on more tactics without adding timeline and budget.

[1:09:00] Voice 9: If we want the quality consistency that is integral to trust building to be

[1:09:05] Voice 9: there.

[1:09:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yeah. And that's where I,

[1:09:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): why I opened the way I did because I think this is an opportunity for the

[1:09:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): Island's trust to end out on the other end, far stronger. We're in a,

[1:09:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): we're in a time period where we must pivot. We must, you know,

[1:09:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): must raise our rise ourselves to uh uh what's coming down the pike because it's it's just

[1:09:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): too many crises where it's it's exhausting um we you did talk about the funding i know

[1:09:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): you referred to a project here on salt spring that for our ganges village area plan and also

[1:09:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): the water plan is having far more money for what they were doing with your experience i guess for

[1:09:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): for a project of this nature, what, what have been budgets that you've seen? You can give me

[1:09:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): ranges. I'm not asking for details, but.

[1:09:52] Voice 9: Certainly more in the scenario three range.

[1:09:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): Okay.

[1:09:56] Voice 9: Yeah. Um, and I think one other note, uh, is that oftentimes like this is a regional scale

[1:10:03] Voice 9: project and for regional scale projects. And I say this in the report, oftentimes you have a

[1:10:09] Voice 9: support staff of not just one but multiple individuals dedicated solely to this project

[1:10:16] Voice 9: so again you know there's the consideration from the consultant perspective and the budget

[1:10:21] Voice 9: associated with that but there's also the internal internal budget implication where you have folks

[1:10:27] Voice 9: who are able to to focus on this to do that evaluation so that we can fine-tune and readjust

[1:10:34] Voice 9: as needed so for regional scale projects that's most often the case that there is

[1:10:40] Voice 9: dedicated staff persons to the project okay

[1:10:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): no that's sort of a unique perspective and one that's

[1:10:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): been challenging me as I completely and totally understand the parallel nature that we're for the

[1:10:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): First Nations consultation I'm very particularly proud of the work that we're doing and how we're

[1:11:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): moving forward. But I also look upon us as being kind of responsible to help the residents in this

[1:11:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): region on this journey of reconciliation, too. So I sort of imagine more of a ladder. And I think

[1:11:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): you kind of touch on how to bring those points over. But can you talk more about how to work in

[1:11:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): this parallel world successfully?

[1:11:27] Voice 9: Yes. So we understood at the outset of our work that, you

[1:11:33] Voice 9: You know, there's a separate government to government relationship building engagement

[1:11:39] Voice 9: process that is happening.

[1:11:41] Voice 9: And that is wonderful.

[1:11:45] Voice 9: That is a good news component to this project.

[1:11:50] Voice 9: We did not, you know, wade into the methodology of that or look at the outcomes of that.

[1:11:57] Voice 9: we did chat with Lisa to understand some of her experiences around the public part of the project

[1:12:05] Voice 9: and some of the public commentary around that First Nations engagement. You know, when we talk

[1:12:12] Voice 9: about the opportunity to celebrate the good news stories of this project, the reconciliation

[1:12:18] Voice 9: component is one of those. The Islands Trust is moving forward in a good way, in a relationship

[1:12:24] Voice 9: building way um but it is at an early stage in that relationship and so um you know what we did

[1:12:32] Voice 9: is is we looked to craft some key messages that can help with the public around the importance

[1:12:39] Voice 9: of this stage in a relationship building process uh the beginning stages of a relationship are

[1:12:44] Voice 9: always a delicate stage in a relationship um and so we really need to to kind of be protective of

[1:12:51] Voice 9: the the separate and concurrent engagement process as it moves forward. I really hope that the key

[1:12:58] Voice 9: messages are are helpful so we've kind of crafted them you'll see there's a lot of bullet points

[1:13:02] Voice 9: there it's on page 28 of the pdf and we start you know from time immemorial we start to talk about

[1:13:10] Voice 9: the stewardship of the lands and for the 30 or so nations within the islands trust area

[1:13:15] Voice 9: the relationship with these lands and with this water has been an incredibly long-standing one

[1:13:22] Voice 9: um and so then we move forward to talk about you know the the rights and responsibilities that come

[1:13:28] Voice 9: with um uh with with the lands the waters traditional knowledge um and the importance

[1:13:36] Voice 9: of updating the language from the 1994 policy statement um and how the local trust areas and

[1:13:44] Voice 9: and how the Islands Trust is looking to be responsive

[1:13:46] Voice 9: to UNDRIP and to the calls and the TRC.

[1:13:50] Voice 9: And then one of the things that we have understood

[1:13:54] Voice 9: from our kind of media analysis and social media analysis

[1:13:58] Voice 9: is that the public has been commenting

[1:14:00] Voice 9: around the jurisdiction of the Islands Trust

[1:14:02] Voice 9: as it relates to reconciliation.

[1:14:04] Voice 9: And so we crafted specific key messages around that.

[1:14:09] Voice 9: So that's on the following page

[1:14:11] Voice 9: where you're looking at, you know, from a perspective of reconciliation, from a perspective

[1:14:17] Voice 9: of cultural heritage, ecological health and conservancy, and affordable housing, how the

[1:14:25] Voice 9: Islands Trust is operating within its jurisdiction. And I think my final note on that is also

[1:14:32] Voice 9: reconciliation is something that requires cross jurisdictional approaches. It requires a federal

[1:14:40] Voice 9: response, a provincial response, a local response, and an individual response. You know, this is

[1:14:47] Voice 9: something that we as Canadians, as citizens, all need to be committing to and working towards and

[1:14:52] Voice 9: making a commitment to. And so, yeah, I think I'm not sure that I've directly answered your

[1:14:59] Voice 9: question, but hopefully I've kind of pointed you to some of the content within the report that's

[1:15:04] Voice 9: responding to the um importance of the reconciliation component and that um government

[1:15:11] Voice 9: to government relationship as as uh as it moves forward yeah

[1:15:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): no i think it did in general but

[1:15:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): it's the bringing it together it's helping the you know sort of our non-indigenous residents

[1:15:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): to understand stronger why and and how and understand what's coming out of it and i think

[1:15:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): that it's well touched on but that does bring me to your key messages section i under i do like

[1:15:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): like what's here, but I'm a bit concerned that having that in this report at this time

[1:15:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): may draw a lot of attention on wordsmithing and the details of that. Is that the right time to

[1:15:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): have, are we, should we more be talking about the level of a strategic level conversation

[1:15:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): than getting into the details of what the messages are right now? So is the timing right to have that

[1:15:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): in here? Because I'm just wondering if that's where people's attention is going to go.

[1:16:01] Voice 9: Yeah, I mean, that's a good question. I think we developed these key messages kind of in response to some of the risks and some of the known issues with the folks who have been engaged thus far.

[1:16:13] Voice 9: But I think that one note that I wanted to mention today is that whenever the, well, within the scenario two or within the scenario three option, there is, you know, the recommendation that an engagement consultant be brought on.

[1:16:28] Voice 9: Whenever that consultant is brought on and in scenario three, a communications consultant is brought on, those teams will need to refine this strategy and will work on each engagement material to craft the messaging, to draft the questions well, especially as it relates to the online survey, really work on that messaging.

[1:16:54] Voice 9: So I think, you know, it may be helpful to add in a little point at the beginning of that section to say, you know, this is suggested at this point, these are going to be further refined. And, you know, key messages aren't aren't set into, you know, set into stone at the outset of the phase, there's something that are going to be changing and responding to feedback, responding to, you know, misinformation, those sorts of things.

[1:17:20] Voice 9: So they're preliminary.

[1:17:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): I think that's good.

[1:17:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): I think that just needs to be overly expressed.

[1:17:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): Or I can see us at Trust Council in December getting into wordsmithing those things.

[1:17:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I think it's, you know, examples or something, preliminary examples, the kind of messaging

[1:17:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): that we'd be working on might help distract that from happening.

[1:17:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): Because I think, while I think it's important to have those conversations, I think the timing

[1:17:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): is not the right time we should be talking about.

[1:17:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): is it option one two or three um type of conversation um the IEPT two level uh I think

[1:18:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): we talked a bit about you know the option three versus that but I'd like to hear a little bit more

[1:18:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): about what you really think the right level should be based on what you know now with with where we

[1:18:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): we are today

[1:18:16] Voice 9: yes so the the the spectrum is helpful as a way of being really clear at the

[1:18:31] Voice 9: outset of developing a strategy about what the promise to the public is and what you're going

[1:18:36] Voice 9: to be doing with feedback and so I think that is the central question is how are we going to be

[1:18:42] Voice 9: be using feedback during this phase to inform the policy statement as it moves forward and I think

[1:18:49] Voice 9: that within inform and consult you know those that is kind of how we've been operating thus far

[1:18:54] Voice 9: within phase one and phase two but there's opportunities for improved clarity around how

[1:18:59] Voice 9: that feedback has been has been used. I think if you were to get into the involve level there is

[1:19:07] Voice 9: is the potential for improved trust

[1:19:12] Voice 9: because you're allowing a little bit more opportunity

[1:19:17] Voice 9: to work collaboratively with the public.

[1:19:21] Voice 9: And that's the wrong word choice

[1:19:23] Voice 9: because collaborate is the next level,

[1:19:25] Voice 9: but to work with the public

[1:19:27] Voice 9: to really understand the issues that are coming up

[1:19:32] Voice 9: and to ensure that those are reflected

[1:19:35] Voice 9: within the the policy statement itself so within scenario three you you will see that we had made

[1:19:42] Voice 9: a recommendation that there could be you know a multi-day workshop multi-stakeholder multi-day

[1:19:48] Voice 9: workshop that could be at that involved level so again that's that's something that might be

[1:19:54] Voice 9: possible within the the third scenario with more resourcing to enable an event of that scale to

[1:20:02] Voice 9: to happen within the timeline towards a March 1st reading.

[1:20:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): No, thank you.

[1:20:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): Cause like I said,

[1:20:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): this is really not about the policy statement anymore.

[1:20:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): This has evolved on Salt Spring.

[1:20:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): I can clearly say, I suspect others islands

[1:20:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): and that we do need to put the trust back in Islands Trust.

[1:20:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): And so thank you.

[1:20:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I'll pass on to Vice Chair Rogers.

[1:20:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): Well,

[1:20:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): thank you, Laura, for your bold questions. Appreciate that. Ben Rogers, over to you.

[1:20:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): Oh, can I just interrupt you for a second? I'm just cognizant of everybody's capacity and the

[1:20:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): timing. And I'm inclined to want to get through this section, first go around the table kind of

[1:20:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): thing. But I was thinking about having a break on the half hour. And perhaps I know I have my

[1:20:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): own set of questions and the responses are very detailed and I totally appreciate that.

[1:21:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): So I'm thinking at this point, let's finish with Dan.

[1:21:04] Trustee Luckham (probable): How about a 10-minute break and come back, and then I'll come in with my remark.

[1:21:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): Does that seem like a reasonable approach to everybody?

[1:21:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): For time management

[1:21:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): capacity, go ahead, CAO Hudson-Piller.

[1:21:14] Voice 13: Yeah, just whether anyone has a hard time limit.

[1:21:18] Voice 13: Certainly we as staff don't.

[1:21:20] Voice 13: I don't know exactly Molly's, but we have moved the event forward.

[1:21:25] Voice 13: I see.

[1:21:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): So what's your hard time limit here, Molly?

[1:21:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): Molly?

[1:21:28] Voice 9: I can stay past 11, but I will need to go at 1120. So about another hour.

[1:21:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): Oh, okay. Well, then let's maybe just have a five-minute break to refill our teacups or

[1:21:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): something. And then we'll continue, but we'll keep that in mind. Is that okay, CAO?

[1:21:47] Voice 13: Oh, no. Yeah. I just wanted to make sure there's clarity. So we just didn't have a

[1:21:50] Voice 13: 30-second hard stop. No, that would be bad. Yeah,

[1:21:54] Voice 13: that would be good. So

[1:21:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): Dan, over to you.

[1:21:57] Trustee Rogers (probable): Oh, I thought you were taking a five-minute break.

[1:22:00] Trustee Rogers (probable): After you.

[1:22:02] Trustee Rogers (probable): Oh, well, yes, maybe. Okay, thank you. Nice to meet you, Molly.

[1:22:13] Trustee Rogers (probable): I have a couple of questions and a couple of comments and then I'll come back to the

[1:22:21] Trustee Rogers (probable): the money and the alternatives.

[1:22:27] Trustee Rogers (probable): Can I, I just want to, one of my comments is,

[1:22:32] Trustee Rogers (probable): and I just to follow up on the discussions related to

[1:22:37] Trustee Rogers (probable): our discussions on reconciliation in First Nations.

[1:22:42] Trustee Rogers (probable): Can I suggest that this report

[1:22:48] Trustee Rogers (probable): and our communication strategy needs to be clearer

[1:22:53] Trustee Rogers (probable): as to who it is we're engaging with in that parallel process.

[1:22:58] Trustee Rogers (probable): And I say that because there has been some concern raised

[1:23:04] Trustee Rogers (probable): that we are not utilizing or not engaging

[1:23:09] Trustee Rogers (probable): with individual Indigenous peoples on the islands

[1:23:11] Trustee Rogers (probable): in that parallel process.

[1:23:14] Trustee Rogers (probable): process. And as you have said, it's a government process that is with recognized First Nations.

[1:23:24] Trustee Rogers (probable): And I just think that needs to be crystal clear, and not only for members of our communities,

[1:23:30] Trustee Rogers (probable): but also for trustees. So can I just make that suggestion? When you're going through,

[1:23:37] Trustee Rogers (probable): there's a place where you're going through the key messaging and the process that we're doing,

[1:23:41] Trustee Rogers (probable): that that process is absolutely crystal clear.

[1:23:47] Trustee Rogers (probable): I have a question, and it goes to page 41 of the PDF.

[1:23:57] Trustee Rogers (probable): And it talks about, I think this is under the methodology section,

[1:24:06] Trustee Rogers (probable): or technique section.

[1:24:09] Trustee Rogers (probable): And could you talk a little bit more about where you talk about in-person

[1:24:15] Trustee Rogers (probable): And you talk about in the second section under the consult, tailored in-person events for each LTA.

[1:24:28] Trustee Rogers (probable): And I say that because I think that actually is, I'll just preface my question, because I think that's actually a key to this whole proposal.

[1:24:43] Trustee Rogers (probable): proposal. You may know that the draft policy has been referred to LTC since it's starting

[1:24:52] Trustee Rogers (probable): to appear on our agendas. I have two next week. But to some extent, I'm sure they'll

[1:25:03] Trustee Rogers (probable): be different. What is proposed elsewhere is somewhat reminiscent of part of what we've

[1:25:11] Trustee Rogers (probable): already done um and i'm a little concerned not to not to you know that i guess i'll use a quote

[1:25:19] Trustee Rogers (probable): if we do what we did we'll get what we got uh which was a lot of um pushback um and so i think

[1:25:28] Trustee Rogers (probable): the tailored in-person events for hlta is where a lot of trustees are looking uh to see what it is

[1:25:37] Trustee Rogers (probable): is recommended to be done in the local trust area

[1:25:40] Trustee Rogers (probable): or in coordination with a local trust committee

[1:25:44] Trustee Rogers (probable): and will be key in sort of people feeling

[1:25:48] Trustee Rogers (probable): they've been consulted

[1:25:50] Trustee Rogers (probable): because there is a segment of our population

[1:25:54] Trustee Rogers (probable): that just doesn't think that the online surveys

[1:25:58] Trustee Rogers (probable): and webinars and information kiosks

[1:26:03] Trustee Rogers (probable): and pop-ups, whatever those mean,

[1:26:05] Trustee Rogers (probable): um are going to are sufficient because we did a lot of that um and we got a lot of pushback from

[1:26:14] Trustee Rogers (probable): folks saying you didn't consult with me so could you talk a little bit about what you might be

[1:26:19] Trustee Rogers (probable): imagining when you say tailored in-person events for each local trust area also keeping in mind

[1:26:25] Trustee Rogers (probable): you recommend against town hall which are in an embedded cultural part of a lot of these islands

[1:26:33] Trustee Rogers (probable): and I don't disagree with you,

[1:26:36] Trustee Rogers (probable): but that's so I'm wondering

[1:26:38] Trustee Rogers (probable): what that might look like in your mind.

[1:26:41] Voice 9: It's a great question.

[1:26:42] Voice 9: So for the tailored in-person events,

[1:26:45] Voice 9: you know, within scenario two,

[1:26:46] Voice 9: we're looking at approximately 14 in-person events,

[1:26:50] Voice 9: you know, being possible within that budget.

[1:26:52] Voice 9: And so those kind of run the gamut

[1:26:55] Voice 9: from, you know, different focus groups,

[1:26:57] Voice 9: potentially the council information sessions,

[1:27:00] Voice 9: discussions, pop-ups, that sort of thing. And I will provide the caveat at the outset of this

[1:27:07] Voice 9: discussion that, you know, with the uncertainty around the COVID-19 situation, we may need to

[1:27:13] Voice 9: move all in person to virtual. We have made some preliminary recommendations about where those

[1:27:19] Voice 9: might occur, but it would need to be further refined at the outset of this phase around

[1:27:25] Voice 9: where specifically those locations are and working with islands trust staff and the trustees to

[1:27:31] Voice 9: determine and confirm the best locations for that in terms of the specific methodologies

[1:27:37] Voice 9: um you know one one method that we heard worked really well was the conversation circle i believe

[1:27:46] Voice 9: it was on salt spring island um and i think that sort of method brings people together

[1:27:54] Voice 9: other and allows the shared space to discuss topics and issues. And so it's not just dominated

[1:28:04] Voice 9: by one voice or, you know, handful of voices at the front of a room. But really, it's a discussion

[1:28:10] Voice 9: that brings together multiple different perspectives and viewpoints. I agree with you

[1:28:16] Voice 9: that, you know, we've included the tailored in person events, because I think that there is going

[1:28:22] Voice 9: going to need to be a tailored response but again there is the budgetary component of that

[1:28:28] Voice 9: so you know whether or not that happens within each of the local trust areas or whether it's

[1:28:37] Voice 9: tied to population or you know whatever the approach may be there there should be opportunities

[1:28:45] Voice 9: for visibility of this project in person.

[1:28:50] Voice 9: So I think that there is some reference

[1:28:55] Voice 9: to what those might be.

[1:28:57] Voice 9: And perhaps that's something that we flesh out

[1:28:59] Voice 9: a little bit more in the next iteration of this draft.

[1:29:02] Voice 9: But I think it will need to be something

[1:29:04] Voice 9: that is kind of further resolved

[1:29:09] Voice 9: through conversations with Island Trust staff and trustees.

[1:29:18] Trustee Rogers (probable): Thanks for that.

[1:29:20] Trustee Rogers (probable): And I agree and I can see what you mean.

[1:29:22] Trustee Rogers (probable): I just wanted to make that point

[1:29:24] Trustee Rogers (probable): that that's going to be where a lot of trustees focus.

[1:29:28] Trustee Rogers (probable): Can I just suggest, and I know this may be editorial

[1:29:33] Trustee Rogers (probable): and I have a few comments related to the,

[1:29:36] Trustee Rogers (probable): and they're very minor, by the way,

[1:29:37] Trustee Rogers (probable): I think it's extremely well-crafted about the content,

[1:29:43] Trustee Rogers (probable): but can I just suggest you rethink stating in this paper

[1:29:48] Trustee Rogers (probable): or what particular local trust areas are concerned about

[1:29:51] Trustee Rogers (probable): because I think that's one of the messages we're getting

[1:29:54] Trustee Rogers (probable): is that people didn't feel like they had told us as clearly

[1:29:58] Trustee Rogers (probable): and we might want to utilize.

[1:30:00] Trustee Rogers (probable): to this area at this time to do that

[1:30:02] Trustee Rogers (probable): rather than state in advance

[1:30:04] Trustee Rogers (probable): what we think they're concerned about.

[1:30:06] Trustee Rogers (probable): And I know you're probably taking that from the surveys

[1:30:08] Trustee Rogers (probable): and the public engagement phase.

[1:30:13] Voice 12: And the staff.

[1:30:14] Trustee Rogers (probable): And the staff, right.

[1:30:19] Trustee Rogers (probable): The other thing I wanted to suggest is,

[1:30:27] Trustee Rogers (probable): well, is to say,

[1:30:30] Trustee Rogers (probable): is two things I agree with Vice Chair Patrick and yourself that trustees of being all on the

[1:30:41] Trustee Rogers (probable): same page would be a great beginning place I think we have to anticipate that that's not going to be

[1:30:49] Trustee Rogers (probable): the reality as we move forward so and I think staff knows that that there are some strongly

[1:30:57] Trustee Rogers (probable): strongly held views that are both about the process and about the content that I doubt

[1:31:06] Trustee Rogers (probable): we're going to sway. I think the majority are there, but there will be a few voices.

[1:31:16] Trustee Rogers (probable): And so we just have had to deal with that. The second thing I want to say, and I appreciate

[1:31:27] Trustee Rogers (probable): when I talk like about these things that I live in a different community universe than Vice Chair

[1:31:35] Trustee Rogers (probable): Patrick and it's my experience is entirely different and I don't have to deal with what

[1:31:41] Trustee Rogers (probable): her do but I think it's really important that we have to make this about the trust policy statement

[1:31:46] Trustee Rogers (probable): and not let it get dragged into something else it can have the impact of building trust

[1:31:53] Trustee Rogers (probable): about the trust, but I think I'm just of the view

[1:31:58] Trustee Rogers (probable): that we need to focus this on the trust policy statement

[1:32:01] Trustee Rogers (probable): and not get dragged into the multitude of other issues

[1:32:06] Trustee Rogers (probable): that are out there that might become important.

[1:32:10] Trustee Rogers (probable): So that's my point.

[1:32:12] Trustee Rogers (probable): The last thing I was going to say was,

[1:32:14] Trustee Rogers (probable): or the last thing, famous last word,

[1:32:19] Trustee Rogers (probable): is Vice Chair Patrick's entirely correct

[1:32:23] Trustee Rogers (probable): in in one way the the the budget that ended up in the motion uh from february july the 8th

[1:32:31] Trustee Rogers (probable): uh was my motion and it was entirely arbitrary based on my sense of the political will of the

[1:32:39] Trustee Rogers (probable): room um and it was not based on any deeper analysis than it was three o'clock in the

[1:32:47] Trustee Rogers (probable): afternoon and i knew people were going to leave and we needed to get something on the table

[1:32:52] Trustee Rogers (probable): honestly we needed to get something concrete on at least my sense was we needed to get something

[1:32:59] Trustee Rogers (probable): that we could work with um and and i actually if you saw my notes i actually had crossed out

[1:33:05] Trustee Rogers (probable): fifty thousand dollars and written 75 down and thinking i wonder if that'll fly and it passed

[1:33:11] Trustee Rogers (probable): unanimously without any debate really um and uh so the number is a bit arbitrary more than a bit

[1:33:20] Trustee Rogers (probable): it arbitrary um although you know it tends to get locked in space right and so um and i i just

[1:33:28] Trustee Rogers (probable): wanted to make that point publicly that that um i don't know what the political will of the trust

[1:33:34] Trustee Rogers (probable): council is going to be related to the the budget and i think it's important to hear the voice of

[1:33:42] Trustee Rogers (probable): uh and and there's not consistency of opinion amongst trustees either about this but i think

[1:33:49] Trustee Rogers (probable): it's important to hear the voice of you know if you really want to have your constituents feel

[1:33:54] Trustee Rogers (probable): like they're being engaged and listened to and consulted um then you need to do some other things

[1:34:02] Trustee Rogers (probable): and so my question my question for you is my my sense of reading your document is there's a major

[1:34:08] Trustee Rogers (probable): um difference between the 75 000 and 150 000 the option one two and option three is

[1:34:19] Trustee Rogers (probable): uh the retention of a of a contract project manager and a communications person so it's a

[1:34:26] Trustee Rogers (probable): staffer a staffing issue um as opposed to a uh necessarily a um a deliverable on the ground

[1:34:36] Trustee Rogers (probable): issue although those obviously come together is that am i am i reading that correctly in part

[1:34:42] Voice 9: So, you know, one of the things to note is that that budget, it includes all the materials, it includes the advertising buys, it includes, like, there's a lot, there's a lot being encapsulated within that budget.

[1:34:58] Voice 9: budget so when we talk about the difference between 75 and 150 thousand dollars we are

[1:35:04] Voice 9: talking about the provision of a consultant to be involved in a more meaningful way within scenario

[1:35:09] Voice 9: two the consultant as I said would likely be coming on advising on the strategy certainly

[1:35:17] Voice 9: helping to develop materials but would not be able to be in attendance at all the in-person

[1:35:22] Voice 9: events just due to the parameters of how much budget there is there would be no provision of

[1:35:27] Voice 9: of a communications consultant and um yeah and then for scenario three um you're able to bring

[1:35:35] Voice 9: on a communications consultant to be involved in a more meaningful way so to really help address

[1:35:41] Voice 9: that resourcing issue um and they would likely be able to be in attendance at all in-person events

[1:35:46] Voice 9: which can really help with um kind of the credibility and the facilitation of uh some of

[1:35:52] Voice 9: these in-person events and then you have the help with that communications consultant as well which

[1:35:56] Voice 9: which I've already spoken to the advantages of that, uh, in terms of deliverables, um, there

[1:36:01] Voice 9: is the possibility of doing the workshop, which, which, um, is going to be, you know, able to bring

[1:36:07] Voice 9: in some of those deliberative techniques that we've heard there's an interest in, um, bring

[1:36:12] Voice 9: together diverse viewpoints. Um, so there, there are additional, um, tactics and techniques that

[1:36:19] Voice 9: can be delivered within that, uh, additional budget, uh, budgetary scenario. Um, so it's not

[1:36:25] Voice 9: just resourcing it is um the the kind of deliverables themselves that um can can go

[1:36:32] Voice 9: a little bit further with scenario three right

[1:36:34] Voice 13: if i if i may um vice chair rogers my understanding

[1:36:40] Voice 13: of the three options is that there's a full-time staffing component as a constant across all three

[1:36:47] Voice 13: of the options presented and they're not costed by molly their islands trust responsibilities so

[1:36:55] Voice 13: Um, uh, I think that's just a bedrock piece that, that has to be baked into whatever scenarios

[1:37:01] Voice 13: there, but there isn't a dollar associated with bringing that person in.

[1:37:07] Voice 13: There is displacement dollars, which we can talk about later on, um, that if we utilize

[1:37:13] Voice 13: one of our staff people, what is displaced, um, by that person's redirection and what

[1:37:21] Voice 13: is left.

[1:37:22] Voice 13: And that's a conversation for later today.

[1:37:24] Voice 13: Okay.

[1:37:25] Trustee Rogers (probable): Thanks.

[1:37:25] Trustee Rogers (probable): Thanks. Thank you for that. I think that the report, if it was clearer that, you know, those would, I think you've sort of laid it out in terms of risks.

[1:37:38] Trustee Rogers (probable): risks uh but uh the fact that i'm asking that question might lead you to think about whether

[1:37:45] Trustee Rogers (probable): the the that that was a i don't know recommended but i but a uh a a um from a professional point

[1:37:54] Trustee Rogers (probable): of view a more inclusive option might provide more information i have one more question and

[1:38:00] Trustee Rogers (probable): i'm sorry to take your time on this because there's a there's a a statement that's made

[1:38:06] Trustee Rogers (probable): on page 26 of your report and I'm not quite sure why it's made and what it is

[1:38:14] Trustee Rogers (probable): you're driving at it's under timeline it's the second sentence because I'm not

[1:38:30] Trustee Rogers (probable): sure we have a choice about that at this point the question of whether or not the

[1:38:34] Trustee Rogers (probable): policy should be being currently governance or it says also needs to be

[1:38:38] Trustee Rogers (probable): considered and i'm wondering what do you mean by needs to be considered in what way because

[1:38:44] Trustee Rogers (probable): they're they're separate processes i know they get mixed up but there's stuff

[1:38:49] Voice 9: yes um and so you know your last statement there they get mixed up is why it needs to be considered

[1:38:54] Voice 9: because it becomes a risk to the project so the governance review has no public engagement

[1:39:00] Voice 9: no opportunity for public input and so this process for islands 2050 has become a little

[1:39:08] Voice 9: little bit of a pressure valve for that process where there's a lot of conversation around

[1:39:12] Voice 9: governance happening within the islands 2050 process um and so i think it's just something

[1:39:19] Voice 9: to keep in mind that that potentially is because there is this concurrent process so it's on

[1:39:24] Voice 9: people's mind they're aware of it um but they don't have an opportunity to weigh in on that so

[1:39:29] Voice 9: they're using the avenues that are afforded to them to to make their thoughts known uh about

[1:39:35] Voice 9: about the governance component.

[1:39:37] Trustee Rogers (probable): Okay, thank you.

[1:39:39] Trustee Rogers (probable): I mean, I think we would all wish they weren't concurrent,

[1:39:43] Trustee Rogers (probable): but they are, so we don't

[1:39:44] Trustee Rogers (probable): really have an option

[1:39:45] Trustee Rogers (probable): at this point that I can think of, so thank you.

[1:39:48] Trustee Rogers (probable): Thank you, those are my comments for now

[1:39:50] Trustee Rogers (probable): and I appreciate the work.

[1:39:54] Voice 9: Okay. Thank

[1:39:54] Voice 9: you for that.

[1:39:55] Voice 9: I've taken notes and we'll address those.

[1:39:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay, so I'm going to call this a point of privilege,

[1:40:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): I think is the right phrase.

[1:40:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): Let's just have five minutes and then come back

[1:40:04] Trustee Luckham (probable): And I will be succinct in my questions because, indeed, most of you have touched on the areas of interest that I have.

[1:40:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): I maybe have a couple more.

[1:40:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): So let's come back at 11.45 and try to allow Molly to get to her next engagement.

[1:40:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): That's 10.45.

[1:40:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): Oh, yeah, sorry.

[1:40:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): I'm having real difficulty

[1:40:26] Voice 8: with the time.

[1:40:26] Voice 8: Right.

[1:40:27] Voice 8: Thank you.

[1:45:19] Voice 8: So how are we all doing out there?

[1:45:25] Voice 8: Let's do well and fast.

[1:45:26] Voice 8: like

[1:45:40] Voice 5: trustee rod vice chair rogers and cao hudson polar so perhaps i'll start um with

[1:46:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): my questions and remarks um and i can't help but comment on some of the things i've already heard

[1:46:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): today um but um the t you know the trc um calls to action um i just want to say it's fundamental

[1:46:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): to what we do and how we do it and regardless of whether we're doing a policy statement thing

[1:46:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): um we have made that commitment and so we need to follow through with that um one of my

[1:46:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): My questions, which hinges on one of Trustee Rogers' questions, was Indigenous people on the islands, you said in one place, versus Indigenous leadership.

[1:46:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): And indeed, Trustee Rogers sort of asked that question.

[1:46:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): I'm being a bit more specific because you did reference Indigenous people on the islands.

[1:46:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): And was that intentional?

[1:46:58] Voice 9: Yes, it was intentional.

[1:46:59] Voice 9: So as I mentioned at the outcome, or at the outset, rather, of the project, we did a stakeholder mapping exercise in workshop, and it was to map potential audiences for the engagement during the phase going forward.

[1:47:14] Voice 9: And so I think, you know, we've tracked that as a potential audience. We would certainly look to Lisa for recommendations around that. And I think the importance of the government to government relationship and engagement process cannot be understated.

[1:47:38] Voice 9: And so I think that, you know, we acknowledge the importance of that process. As I said, it's at an early stage and so really needs to be cultivated and protected.

[1:47:52] Voice 9: But we do track that, you know, there are other Indigenous folks living within the Islands Trust areas. So those are a potential audience for this process.

[1:48:02] Voice 9: Okay,

[1:48:03] Trustee Luckham (probable): that's good. So the other thing that immediately comes to mind in this is this consultation process that is outlined and indeed there's lots of variability in that, but clearly in this timeframe to adoption.

[1:48:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): There may be a community information meeting and then, and there will absolutely be a public hearing process. I, I believe. And so,

[1:48:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): So that's where it moves from a consultation process to a legislative requirement.

[1:48:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): And how do you see that interfacing and the involvement of the consultants in that legislative process?

[1:48:44] Voice 9: That's a good question. And that's not currently included within kind of the activities that they would attend.

[1:48:50] Voice 9: But of course, those are inextricable. And the relationship between the public process and the legislative requirement needs to be very close. So it would be proposed that the consultant would be involved in that process as well. So that needs to be included in the report update.

[1:49:09] Voice 9: date.

[1:49:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay. So then just a couple of quick remarks. I think what we need to do in this

[1:49:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): exercise fundamental to the future of the Highlands Trust is build the trust in us. Because I think

[1:49:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): that a lot of the difficulties we're experiencing is because of a lack of trust for historical

[1:49:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): reasons. And I think that that was mentioned is that I call them soft costs, but they're not even

[1:49:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): remotely close to soft because they're a lot of money but the staff component and the ability to

[1:49:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): displace or hire people to fill our role in the consultation process

[1:49:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): is significant and so you know does it bump that up beyond two hundred thousand dollars in which

[1:49:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): would be a scary concept but probably as was indicated in the report we need to be realistic

[1:50:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): and um so just want to say that um and i and then i would just like to say trustee rogers that the

[1:50:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): proof in the in uh is evident in your motion by the fact that we're here today and and uh that

[1:50:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): was a necessity and it got us started on this journey which who knows where it may end and we

[1:50:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): will find out shortly you know i like to think about this process and and i say this and i

[1:50:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): I realize there's difficulties with it, is in consensus building, and so I've kind of

[1:50:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): rephrased that a little bit in thinking that we're not going to get consensus decision-making,

[1:50:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): but perhaps we can achieve some consensus on the content of this version of the policy state

[1:50:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): amendment, because that would enable us to bring trustees together at the table, because as has

[1:50:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): been pointed out, that is important. And so just, do you have, Molly, do you have a remark on

[1:50:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): on what I've sort of paraphrased as a very limited view

[1:50:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): on a consensus opportunity to help us?

[1:51:04] Voice 9: Yeah, you know, I think consensus is a word

[1:51:07] Voice 9: that we wanna be careful using

[1:51:11] Voice 9: because I think that it can lead

[1:51:13] Voice 9: to expectations that we will not deliver

[1:51:19] Voice 9: through this process and that an engagement process

[1:51:21] Voice 9: doesn't necessarily need to deliver on.

[1:51:24] Voice 9: I don't think consensus is the objective here, but more so to make all Islands Trust residents, non-residents feel like their voices have been heard, that their concerns have been listened to, and to see the rationale as to why the policy statement has been adjusted in certain ways.

[1:51:45] Voice 9: And so if there is, for example, a concern that cannot be addressed within the policy statement, that it's very clearly messaged and very clearly communicated as to why that was not integrated.

[1:51:57] Voice 9: And so I think it goes back to that weave diagram that the public input is one of several inputs, including technical expertise, including the engagement process with First Nations, council direction, etc.

[1:52:12] Voice 9: And consensus isn't always possible within that weaving process.

[1:52:17] Voice 9: process. And so I think that that's a word that we typically don't use within, you know,

[1:52:24] Voice 9: our engagement strategies, because mismanaged expectations erode trust. And I think that word

[1:52:32] Voice 9: can set unrealistic expectations.

[1:52:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay, thank you for that. That's terrific. So just, I feel it

[1:52:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): necessary to make a remark at this time, although I'm going to send you some of my editorial

[1:52:44] Trustee Luckham (probable): comments, but I do believe that the, I think the executive summary is a little short and it's not

[1:52:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): quite enough detail to sort of grasp some of the subtleties of the document. And that I think it's

[1:53:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): important that that leads people to give more credibility and want to spend the time to read

[1:53:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): the entire document because it's a significant size document. And quite honestly, not everybody's

[1:53:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): going to read it cover to cover and in that executive summary I and I appreciate that the

[1:53:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): table of contents points you to areas within the document that might attract people's interest but

[1:53:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): I do think that the parallel process associated with First Nations needs to be mentioned in that

[1:53:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): executive summary so it's clear at the beginning rather than leaving them out until you get to

[1:53:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): that section because otherwise it seems like there's an absence to me personally that's my

[1:53:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): my point of view. And then misinformation, I got a little uncomfortable with the way it's

[1:53:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): been characterized, because if you read some of the comments back about misinformation,

[1:53:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): the pushback is, no, you don't understand us. And so I think we need to be careful about

[1:53:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): being critical of comments that people are making, feeling that they are misunderstood,

[1:54:04] Trustee Luckham (probable): or that we don't understand and so just uh just being sensitive on that and that's something to

[1:54:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): think about

[1:54:11] Voice 13: chair locum so i think we should land on that moment and and discuss it because i think

[1:54:19] Voice 13: there's a you know humbly i'd suggest there's a distinction between people who have not been

[1:54:24] Voice 13: reached and their voice is not heard and who are asking reasonable questions and um provocative

[1:54:33] Voice 13: misinformation um or conflating issues um on an active basis that um aren't a function of just

[1:54:45] Voice 13: a lack of information but are more purposefully leading the conversation in places that the policy

[1:54:53] Voice 13: statement isn't going so it's a question of in our strategies are we acknowledging that that's

[1:55:01] Voice 13: occurring and that um part of what we're going to be doing is addressing that or not so um i think

[1:55:10] Voice 13: that's what's meant by those those elements though i might be reading more into it than

[1:55:15] Voice 13: than i should sure um

[1:55:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): so molly do you have a remark with that i was happy to just leave it

[1:55:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): with you to take my remarks but anyway go ahead i

[1:55:26] Voice 9: do take your remarks and i think that we'll

[1:55:28] Voice 9: certainly do a review of how we've characterized misinformation based on what you said. But I do

[1:55:33] Voice 9: think that the comments around the nuance between misinformation and people looking for more

[1:55:41] Voice 9: information who haven't yet been involved in the process, or have feel like they have not yet been

[1:55:46] Voice 9: heard. I do think that that's an important distinction. So with all of that being said,

[1:55:53] Voice 9: I think we will review with those two comments in mind and seek to bring additional clarity

[1:55:58] Voice 9: to any statements around that.

[1:56:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay, brilliant. On page 18 under issues,

[1:56:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): I wonder how in-depth that is and whether or not there needs to be some clarity there

[1:56:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): with that these are observations from feedback and social media, not necessarily a garnered

[1:56:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): community opinion um because i don't think we've actually gone that distance to uh catalog that um

[1:56:29] Trustee Luckham (probable): did you have a remark there about that

[1:56:31] Voice 9: yes so uh i think that we've already heard one comment

[1:56:35] Voice 9: and one concern around potentially the the inclusion of that because it gives the sense

[1:56:40] Voice 9: that that's an exhaustive list um from trustee rogers uh that is not the intention it's not an

[1:56:46] Voice 9: an exhaustive list so i think um your caveat or your um uh clarification to say that this is

[1:56:53] Voice 9: these were brought from um an understanding developed through our media analysis so we

[1:57:00] Voice 9: looked at newspaper clippings um clippings of uh editorials and opinion pieces that had been

[1:57:05] Voice 9: published as well as a surveillance of social media or just a scan of social media rather so

[1:57:11] Voice 9: i'll add in the statement to say that you know this is non-exhaustive this is where this

[1:57:15] Voice 9: information came from and hopefully that will mitigate those two concerns.

[1:57:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay so I'm almost

[1:57:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): at the end here of my questions. What do you mean by representative avatars?

[1:57:27] Voice 9: Yes so that is a

[1:57:31] Voice 9: method that's been used in several engagement processes that have done a really excellent job

[1:57:39] Voice 9: at encouraging the participants to kind of walk a mile in other people's shoes. So

[1:57:48] Voice 9: basically what has been done is that you look at the demographic makeup of a region or of a city

[1:57:55] Voice 9: and you select characters and develop personalities and concerns for that kind of character. And you

[1:58:06] Voice 9: you use that as an engagement tool to allow people to kind of step into other people's shoes so you

[1:58:11] Voice 9: might step into the shoes of somebody who is a parent of two children who is looking to find an

[1:58:17] Voice 9: affordable rental on saturn island when in fact you are a landowner on bowen island and it just

[1:58:24] Voice 9: kind of encourages you gives you an opportunity to think about the concerns of other constituents

[1:58:29] Voice 9: constituents, other members of the community, and what their concerns are. And so that's just

[1:58:35] Voice 9: one technique that has been used really well to kind of encourage that diversity of thought,

[1:58:40] Voice 9: encourage that empathy building. Because I think as much as we are wanting to do to build trust

[1:58:45] Voice 9: during this process, we're also wanting to build empathy within our community for the differences

[1:58:52] Voice 9: differences of lived experience and realities that we all face.

[1:58:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay, so thank you. I have some other questions that I'll table later when we're having a

[1:59:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): conversation amongst ourselves, I guess. But I just want to say, I also feel there's a necessity

[1:59:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): to move to option three, and indeed find the funding to do that. Because I think I realize

[1:59:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): that involves the next stage is a big rabbit hole. But I don't see the necessity to go all the way

[1:59:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): down the rabbit hole. But I also understand exactly what you just said about setting the

[1:59:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): expectation with the public. And if we say we're going to involve them, well, you didn't involve

[1:59:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): us. Because I see that there's a necessity in some of the larger communities where the greatest

[1:59:44] Trustee Luckham (probable): level of interest or yeah the greatest level of interest in the topic is

[1:59:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): apparent that there needs to be an a little bit of a feedback loop that's

[1:59:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): more intimate than just reporting out so that

[2:00:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): Indeed, people know that we've considered their input

[2:00:03] Trustee Luckham (probable): and maybe sought some clarification on their input

[2:00:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): in order to advance it

[2:00:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): because some of those people are movers and shakers

[2:00:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): in their community and we need to bring them

[2:00:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): as well as we need to bring trustees alongside with this.

[2:00:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): We need to bring those movers and shakers in the community

[2:00:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): on side with what we can agree upon doing.

[2:00:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): and so I appreciate the candidness in your report in the analysis of the work that we've done

[2:00:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): and I think that that will be received well by our communities and by trustees

[2:00:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): and you put us in a good place to make some decisions here so thank you that's it for me

[2:00:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): do you have any final remarks you would like to make and then i'll maybe flip it back to the ceo

[2:00:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): about what he would like to hear from us in terms of recommendations or otherwise yes

[2:01:03] Voice 9: i i wanted to

[2:01:04] Voice 9: thank everyone here today for their um review of the document in a in a short time frame uh we know

[2:01:10] Voice 9: it's a lengthy document um so i appreciate you making the time to spend to to to review and it's

[2:01:16] Voice 9: clear that all of you have done a thorough review. Thank you all for your comments, your questions,

[2:01:23] Voice 9: your insight. I think it's all very, very helpful. And what we'll be doing is looking at these

[2:01:28] Voice 9: and looking to provide update to the document by September 7th. So we'll be looking forward

[2:01:36] Voice 9: to integrating that. And finally, thank you for the opportunity to be here today and to present

[2:01:42] Voice 9: to you and to work on this project um we've been enjoying it um we are uh empathetic to the

[2:01:49] Voice 9: challenges um but uh know that the islands trust is moving forward in a good way um and so thank

[2:01:55] Voice 9: you very much again okay

[2:01:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): thank you molly so

[2:02:00] Voice 13: thank you mr chair um so let's go to some practical

[2:02:05] Voice 13: matters yeah and um uh you know molly's going to be leaving us and she just referenced uh the

[2:02:12] Voice 13: amendment process so i think we we have to be our best selves collectively over the next couple of

[2:02:18] Voice 13: days um to make sure that uh one we have do-ability um between now and frankly molly it's the sixth

[2:02:26] Voice 13: because we have to publish um well normally we'd be publishing this friday but we can legally

[2:02:33] Voice 13: publish on the monday and that will be driven by how many changes so um i i guess my first question

[2:02:41] Voice 13: is is there um given uh some of the you know the changes i heard here so far um i think are doable

[2:02:51] Voice 13: um and so is there tacit um consideration to move this forward to to um to get the amended document

[2:03:00] Voice 13: um to receive it on the 8th for consideration of moving it forward to trust council

[2:03:07] Voice 13: yeah so

[2:03:10] Voice 13: i'm seeing yes so that's uh that's um that's um really the the number one piece out

[2:03:16] Voice 13: of this right now um and then claire i would ask how are we going to in an ordered way get

[2:03:21] Voice 13: that material um i know molly's been making notes but um are you gonna collate from this recording

[2:03:29] Voice 13: or take some of those notes and put those into um a comprehensive piece for for molly to take

[2:03:35] Voice 13: look I expect some of those some of the asks are going to require a back and forth between

[2:03:41] Voice 13: modus and yourself probably or myself but do you see that process happening let's say in the next

[2:03:46] Voice 13: day or so yes

[2:03:48] Voice 2: I've been taking notes as well and I expect to I'll speak with Molly after this meeting

[2:03:51] Voice 2: today okay

[2:03:53] Voice 13: and this is also time only for you to sort of you know push back if you need to or ask

[2:03:58] Voice 13: some questions around you know any precision but or but what I'm taking from your reaction is that

[2:04:05] Voice 13: that you've heard these comments, for the most part,

[2:04:08] Voice 13: they can be amended into the document

[2:04:09] Voice 13: and we can get it ready for next week.

[2:04:12] Voice 13: And if I'm wrong, let me know.

[2:04:16] Voice 9: Oh, that's correct.

[2:04:17] Voice 9: And I think I have a good understanding of the comments

[2:04:20] Voice 9: and following up with Claire,

[2:04:21] Voice 9: we'll make a pathway forward

[2:04:23] Voice 9: and ensure that you have the document you need on the 6th.

[2:04:27] Voice 13: Okay, well, that's great.

[2:04:29] Voice 13: great um you know from uh my perspective molly uh uh thank you very much um and uh um i appreciate

[2:04:38] Voice 13: your work and thank you the rest of your team you know i think ec knows and i think other

[2:04:42] Voice 13: people who are listening certainly i know that um that was that's uh a month's worth

[2:04:47] Voice 13: of work or six weeks with the work done in two and a half weeks and um um appreciate

[2:04:52] Voice 13: it um but uh now i don't know whether um molly needs to stay for the rest of the conversation

[2:05:00] Voice 13: Mayor Mrakas, But I think we have to talk about some of the other elements associated with the plan, what do you think Claire we have some some of the budget pieces some you know, I do have some reflections on some of the comments of EC um I don't know whether we're going to be developing some pieces by tomorrow, like a project charter that we have discuss.

[2:05:24] Voice 13: Mayor Mrakas, And some budget considerations as well.

[2:05:29] Voice 13: so i think that's the next part of our conversation sure

[2:05:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): so just for clarity um i can hit send on my

[2:05:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): editorial remarks and i did suggest that we should send them to somebody and i'm prepared to send

[2:05:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): those to claire and then claire can collate that and send it

[2:05:45] Voice 13: i think that's the best the best

[2:05:46] Voice 13: approach is for um modus to get one avenue of of um communication of course they're making their

[2:05:54] Voice 13: own notes and right

[2:05:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): um so i will hit send at the end of this meeting and encourage the other vice

[2:05:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): chairs to do the same um in order to get this rolling because indeed there's very few days

[2:06:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): half of today is already over okay um thank you uh again molly and your team

[2:06:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): for the exceptional work and actually the depth and breadth of your experience shows in how you

[2:06:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): you've presented the situation to us.

[2:06:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): Thank you.

[2:06:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay, CAO, how would you want to,

[2:06:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): how can we help you get to where you need to be for clarity?

[2:06:39] Voice 13: Okay, well, there's a couple of things.

[2:06:42] Voice 13: I don't know whether EC needs to burden themselves

[2:06:47] Voice 13: with a specific recommendation out of Wednesday

[2:06:50] Voice 13: day um coming up to trust council i think your your threshold or your direction to us was to

[2:06:57] Voice 13: come back with um an engagement strategy for a trust council to look to consider and then from

[2:07:04] Voice 13: those debates there will be one of the options or some other um undetermined option picked by

[2:07:09] Voice 13: trustees um or not to go forward but this is the ground that we're going to stand on um i can't

[2:07:17] Voice 13: help but note in the conversation that you know you can see where some of you have an interest

[2:07:24] Voice 13: in going in a particular direction. I do think it's worth noting that as we contemplate the higher

[2:07:32] Voice 13: cost or level three option just the idea that the scope of work of this project is expanding a bit

[2:07:41] Voice 13: and this is just my considerations here meaning trust building and communications is becoming

[2:07:48] Voice 13: a co-product of the policy statement work itself I think you'd all appreciate that we want to be

[2:07:58] Voice 13: successful with the conclusion of the policy statement work and that's been a driver inside

[2:08:03] Voice 13: the organization two years of work if you add up staff work you know we're in the hundreds of

[2:08:09] Voice 13: thousands of dollars at this point in terms of dedicating effort towards it but really as we

[2:08:14] Voice 13: talk about some of the components that are in this report and some of your language it seems that

[2:08:20] Voice 13: there's a there's a larger communications function that's sort of working its way through so i just

[2:08:26] Voice 13: want to speak that because that is becoming apparent to me at least um now i'm going to

[2:08:34] Voice 13: kind of turned it over to claire but one thing claire has um has the um an enviable task of

[2:08:41] Voice 13: is that we also have to have a project charter ready for that goes with this engagement strategy

[2:08:48] Voice 13: and usually a project charter as you know has costing and it has an approach associated with it

[2:08:55] Voice 13: and right now um we're i and um and i'll let claire speak for herself frankly we're uh

[2:09:03] Voice 13: partners in this endeavor but we're thinking of developing that project charter on the second or

[2:09:12] Voice 13: recommended option from the consultants because we have to pick one of them and I don't know

[2:09:19] Voice 13: whether EC really wants to make a recommendation one way or another on which we should be

[2:09:24] Voice 13: developing the project charter for do you understand my our need to just move that

[2:09:32] Voice 13: that forward in some way so that's one um we have to talk about the implications of the three

[2:09:38] Voice 13: options and the staffing implications here and it's a hidden cost that we have to make unhidden

[2:09:45] Voice 13: and finally some words on procurement and timing because um even if we're successful here and

[2:09:52] Voice 13: we're and trust council feels that this is the some version of this is the right way to go

[2:09:57] Voice 13: So the timing crunched is significant, depending upon the options that we take.

[2:10:05] Voice 13: So those are the three things we have to talk about.

[2:10:08] Voice 13: Claire, I've sort of talked enough.

[2:10:10] Voice 13: Would you like to pick any one of those?

[2:10:12] Voice 13: Do you want to start with the project charter?

[2:10:15] Voice 13: Because, of course, Molly's going to be doing this work, landing this to us on the 6th.

[2:10:20] Voice 13: I don't see her re-presenting it to you, but she would be presenting at Trust Council.

[2:10:26] Voice 13: and or her and her team.

[2:10:30] Voice 13: So we have to marry that with a project charter

[2:10:33] Voice 13: to fulfill our obligations to Trust Council.

[2:10:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): All right, before you go to Claire,

[2:10:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): Dan, did you have a question of clarity?

[2:10:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): I think I saw your hand.

[2:10:41] Trustee Rogers (probable): No, no, I was going to comment.

[2:10:42] Trustee Rogers (probable): So I'm happy to wait for Claire.

[2:10:44] Trustee Rogers (probable): Okay, thank you.

[2:10:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): Over to you, Claire.

[2:10:47] Voice 2: Thank you, Chair Leckham.

[2:10:49] Voice 2: So yes, one of the difficulties I'm wrestling with

[2:10:52] Voice 2: in terms of the request from Trust Council

[2:10:55] Voice 2: for a project charter,

[2:10:57] Voice 2: is of course um which of the three options should i pivot it towards should i create three project

[2:11:03] Voice 2: charters in the event that you want to do any one of the three the trouble is there may be a blend

[2:11:08] Voice 2: of the three that council may settle on so i'm project charters are generally quite black and

[2:11:13] Voice 2: white documents and i feel as though we're not in a black and white place at this point

[2:11:17] Voice 2: so wanted to bring that um so i haven't started work on it because i wanted to wait pending your

[2:11:22] Voice 2: discussions today to get a feel for where this is moving in terms of what sort of project charter

[2:11:28] Voice 2: do I bring to trust council so we wanted your reflections on how some direction to us in terms

[2:11:34] Voice 2: of how would we craft such a document given the uncertainties currently in play that being said

[2:11:41] Voice 13: hate to interrupt one option is to not come forward with the project charter meaning let

[2:11:48] Voice 13: let council trust council have its discussions and pick a lane.

[2:11:52] Voice 13: And then the project charter isn't decision isn't a fulcrum for a decision.

[2:11:56] Voice 13: It's an expression of that work.

[2:11:59] Voice 13: And the work is included in the some version of the engagement strategy.

[2:12:06] Voice 13: So I just point out that that might be a more realistic version of this

[2:12:09] Voice 13: instead of, instead of anticipating otherwise EC would usually pick a lane

[2:12:14] Voice 13: and make a recommendation which um we would then fulfill the project charter um in that given

[2:12:20] Voice 13: direction so

[2:12:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): that begs the question is ec wanting to pick a lane and i see trustee rogers and trustee

[2:12:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): fast go ahead

[2:12:35] Trustee Rogers (probable): who's first me

[2:12:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): trustee rogers

[2:12:38] Trustee Rogers (probable): so thanks for that uh cao hudson pillar i it would be

[2:12:43] Trustee Rogers (probable): be a um what a cultural change that would be to not have a project charter that's approved by the

[2:12:51] Trustee Rogers (probable): trust council or an ltc because we're all because we're all trained forever by the planners that you

[2:12:58] Trustee Rogers (probable): have to have a project charter before the project can be activated so um and um so here's just my

[2:13:07] Trustee Rogers (probable): my thoughts on this. I think, I don't think, I mean, there may be an odd voice at Trust Council

[2:13:16] Trustee Rogers (probable): who thinks we shouldn't be spending this money. There was some mention of that at TPC last week

[2:13:22] Trustee Rogers (probable): that most staff can just do it. But we're on this path. And I personally would like to see,

[2:13:31] Trustee Rogers (probable): I think we have to produce a project charter based on the number that Trust Council has

[2:13:36] Trustee Rogers (probable): has already passed.

[2:13:38] Trustee Rogers (probable): And I would like to see a version two

[2:13:40] Trustee Rogers (probable): that has option three in it.

[2:13:43] Trustee Rogers (probable): And it's not unheard of,

[2:13:47] Trustee Rogers (probable): at least in my experience with LTCs,

[2:13:51] Trustee Rogers (probable): to see two different versions of a project charter.

[2:13:54] Trustee Rogers (probable): And then the LTC makes a choice

[2:13:59] Trustee Rogers (probable): as to which way it wants to go.

[2:14:01] Trustee Rogers (probable): I think many of the details are contained

[2:14:04] Trustee Rogers (probable): in the, or at least the outline of the details

[2:14:08] Trustee Rogers (probable): are contained in the report from MODIS.

[2:14:12] Trustee Rogers (probable): So I don't like to create work for Claire and her team,

[2:14:16] Trustee Rogers (probable): but I don't think it would be a tremendously different,

[2:14:20] Trustee Rogers (probable): difficult project to develop the project charter

[2:14:25] Trustee Rogers (probable): for option three, as well as for option two,

[2:14:28] Trustee Rogers (probable): but I stand to be corrected.

[2:14:31] Trustee Rogers (probable): So that's my initial reaction to this as we go forward

[2:14:35] Trustee Rogers (probable): with here's the one that correlates to the motion

[2:14:39] Trustee Rogers (probable): that was passed.

[2:14:40] Trustee Rogers (probable): Here's another one based on the report

[2:14:44] Trustee Rogers (probable): and what we think trust council might want in step.

[2:14:48] Trustee Rogers (probable): So that's sort of my where I'm leaning at the moment.

[2:14:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay, thank you, Vice Chair Rogers.

[2:14:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): Vice Chair Fast and then Patrick.

[2:14:56] Trustee Fast (probable): My response is going to be the same,

[2:14:58] Trustee Fast (probable): uh except that i was willing to uh uh embrace the idea of no project charter just to follow through

[2:15:07] Trustee Fast (probable): on um letting trust council absorb this report the recommendations based on uh the amount that

[2:15:16] Trustee Fast (probable): they passed and um but i can go either way i like the acknowledgement that most of us on executive

[2:15:25] Trustee Fast (probable): are interested in number three

[2:15:27] Trustee Fast (probable): and would like to take that to trustees.

[2:15:29] Trustee Fast (probable): So I'll go along with Dan, thank you.

[2:15:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay, thank you.

[2:15:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): Trustee Patrick.

[2:15:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): I support that approach of making the two options

[2:15:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): and the discussion will go the way it goes

[2:15:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): where I mean, the funding could be a decision

[2:15:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): to go look for the funding elsewhere

[2:15:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): and which would make time to occur.

[2:15:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): But I think that would be the best prepared

[2:15:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): and then see where it goes okay

[2:15:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): thank you uh vice chair patrick so i'm a lane three guy i'm afraid

[2:16:04] Trustee Luckham (probable): and um and uh i you know project charters are actually in my experience a relatively new thing

[2:16:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): and in fact it's a good uh mechanism that was brought into play to keep us all accountable

[2:16:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): for the decisions that we make and the direction that we provide rather than changing it

[2:16:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): constantly so certainly in favor of some kind of a project charter at the end of the day of course

[2:16:29] Trustee Luckham (probable): the funding is the biggest part of this and that we could specify any lane we want and it's easy

[2:16:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): to do lane two because council's already committed to spend that money but if we want to do something

[2:16:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): more which seems the most obvious thing in terms of the way the report reads to me then council

[2:16:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): needs to figure out how much they want to spend to fund it including the soft costs that the CEO

[2:16:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): has brought our attention to and thank you Laura for just saying is there additional funding

[2:16:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): somewhere else because one of my questions here is is this is a provincially required document

[2:17:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): is there the remotest chance of getting some support for the province to do this what is

[2:17:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): is obviously beneficial to them as well,

[2:17:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): a significant level of public engagement

[2:17:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): that this warrants after 50 years

[2:17:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): of the Islanders Trust in play.

[2:17:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): So I just can't help but ask that.

[2:17:29] Trustee Luckham (probable): But I agree, project charter,

[2:17:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): whether it's lane two or lane three,

[2:17:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): and then options to withdraw things or add things

[2:17:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): if it was a lane two,

[2:17:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): I think that it might be a difficult conversation if we're not really clear and actually quite

[2:17:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): honestly I like the idea of ECE because we would tasked with this is making a recommendation

[2:17:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): and then it's up to council to decide whether they endorse that recommendation or not

[2:17:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): but we can make that decision some you know at our next meeting but obviously we need to have

[2:18:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): a project charter to work from so those are my thoughts back to you CAO.

[2:18:07] Voice 13: Okay so Claire you've

[2:18:08] Voice 13: You've got the direction from EC, I think, and we'll prepare those two.

[2:18:15] Voice 13: And I think, you know, the scope of the second one might be might address some of the enhanced communication as a separate and but relatable part of the work.

[2:18:27] Voice 13: But we can talk about that. So are you OK with that part, Claire?

[2:18:30] Voice 2: So I'm understanding two project charters laying out option scenarios two and three.

[2:18:35] Voice 13: that's right and uh in that case i don't think he's you know you can talk about it next week

[2:18:42] Voice 13: but i don't think ecu would then need to make a recommendation based on that um you were tasked

[2:18:46] Voice 13: with providing an engagement strategy for the islands trust to consider and um you can of course

[2:18:52] Voice 13: choose to go as you whatever direction you see fit but i think um by doing that you fulfilled

[2:18:58] Voice 13: fulfilled your obligation um to them with the project charter so that's uh the first one the

[2:19:04] Voice 13: second is staffing and claire could you just take us through um you know there's a report here and

[2:19:11] Voice 13: it speaks to um a nominal figure of ten thousand dollars but um what was earlier discussed is that

[2:19:18] Voice 13: modus isn't costing out they're including um at least one fte worth of work and you heard that

[2:19:25] Voice 13: And in previous discussions with Molly, she and others on her team, they gave examples of regional projects where there's of a similar scope where there's three or four people who are dedicated to a given project.

[2:19:38] Voice 13: We're not in that space.

[2:19:40] Voice 13: So all three of those options have one FTE.

[2:19:43] Voice 13: Right now we have no FTEs who are discreetly tasked with this work.

[2:19:50] Voice 13: Our current communications person is full-time on regular day-to-day communications work,

[2:19:55] Voice 13: supporting the governance body and the staff and communications planning generally.

[2:20:02] Voice 13: So, Claire, could you talk us through, no matter what the option is,

[2:20:07] Voice 13: what the implications for staffing would be and what we think could be some options for it?

[2:20:12] Voice 2: Thank you.

[2:20:13] Voice 2: So, yes, I have concerns around the various scenarios in terms of our staff's ability to deliver.

[2:20:21] Voice 2: the support in all models. So in scenario one, there is no consultant. So this is essentially

[2:20:26] Voice 2: for us status quo. This is the team delivering in the way we, you know, the side of the desk

[2:20:31] Voice 2: delivery that we've been doing. That said, I think there are heightened expectations around

[2:20:37] Voice 2: communications and the work that we've been doing, I think would not, the staffing compliments we

[2:20:42] Voice 2: have right now, as the CEO mentioned, our communication specialist, her job is busy

[2:20:46] Voice 2: without this project. So I think we are we are in need of additional position around communications.

[2:20:54] Voice 2: Scenario two brings in a consultant to assist, but with reduced expectations around the extent

[2:21:00] Voice 2: of the activity. So in that scenario, I think there's some incremental support brought in by

[2:21:04] Voice 2: the consultant. But of course, then there's additional work to engage and work with the

[2:21:10] Voice 2: consultant. And scenario three brings in a communications consultant with the engagement

[2:21:16] Voice 2: firm or separately to support. So it's really, and I think that would then deliver a heightened

[2:21:23] Voice 2: amount of effort. There's more effort, but there's also more resources. So it's in scenario one and

[2:21:28] Voice 2: two, but also with three, but particularly one and two, I really feel we don't have sufficient

[2:21:33] Voice 2: internal capacity to deliver as this is currently set out. We are aware there are typically

[2:21:40] Voice 2: many positions dedicated to this sort of work. And we've been doing it through best effort and

[2:21:45] Voice 2: a lot of goodwill of staff, really, really, I'm really proud of the work and the amount of

[2:21:50] Voice 2: dedication that people have had to this project. Molly also mentioned project management. So I am

[2:21:55] Voice 2: your project manager, but this is one of many projects that I manage. And again, position is

[2:22:01] Voice 2: quite full without this project. So I am hopeful that we could, in the briefing, I put at least

[2:22:06] Voice 2: $10,000. And so for $10,000, we could hire a communication specialist at the grid level 21,

[2:22:14] Voice 2: which in the market is not a terribly competitive place to be, I would say.

[2:22:18] Voice 2: I've had difficulty recruiting at the 21 level, because in the Victoria market for communications,

[2:22:25] Voice 2: it's challenging. So we would be looking for a temporary staff person for three months,

[2:22:30] Voice 2: that equals about $10,000 for part time. If we wish to go full time for three months, it's $20,000.

[2:22:37] Voice 2: and that may need to be consultant if I'm unable to attract a temporary staff person.

[2:22:42] Voice 2: But

[2:22:42] Voice 13: that person, the plan for that person would be what, Claire?

[2:22:45] Voice 13: They would take, you know,

[2:22:46] Voice 13: we would realign current staff to this project

[2:22:49] Voice 13: and that person would be doing regular work backfill.

[2:22:53] Voice 13: Is that the plan?

[2:22:54] Voice 2: That certainly could be the plan, yeah, yet to be determined.

[2:22:57] Voice 2: But yes, we need more bandwidth and I think it would depend on the interest of our staff

[2:23:01] Voice 2: in terms of where they want to best place their skills.

[2:23:03] Voice 2: but um i think that having that one at least one full-time extra fte would certainly be assistive

[2:23:10] Voice 2: for scenario one we really could use two um because we need someone to be assistive with

[2:23:15] Voice 2: the communication side of things but someone else assisting with all the engagement pieces

[2:23:20] Voice 2: um so there there's a lot of work to be done i would say probably twenty thousand dollars

[2:23:26] Voice 2: is needed um at a minimum um if we wish to really do communications in the way that i'm hearing

[2:23:33] Voice 2: engineering that people wish to have it done. At this point, I am hopeful we will be filling

[2:23:40] Voice 2: the program coordinator position. So we will have additional capacity on the engagement side. And I

[2:23:45] Voice 2: hope to have an announcement to you soon around that to help with the travel logistics, the,

[2:23:50] Voice 2: you know, placement of ads, all of the logistical pieces. But in terms of on the ground engagement

[2:23:55] Voice 2: and communications, there's still a need.

[2:23:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): So can I just say something? And if I'm out of turn,

[2:24:03] Trustee Luckham (probable): turn, Vice Chair, as you can tell me. So I think we shouldn't be considering option one. It's just

[2:24:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): not feasible. And we've got a commitment from council to at a minimum go with option two.

[2:24:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): So that's just my honest perspective.

[2:24:22] Trustee Rogers (probable): Dan? I agree with that. Which is why we, I said,

[2:24:29] Trustee Rogers (probable): yes which is why we're going to get chart project charters on two and three

[2:24:34] Trustee Rogers (probable): um i want to ask some questions but i don't want to get into a discussion about particular staff

[2:24:44] Trustee Rogers (probable): and and so i have to be careful what i ask but um clearly in your before this before may

[2:24:56] Trustee Rogers (probable): and the introduction of the draft policy statement,

[2:25:06] Trustee Rogers (probable): you were envisioning a certain level of public engagement

[2:25:11] Trustee Rogers (probable): that was basically driven by staff.

[2:25:17] Trustee Rogers (probable): So I would have assumed that whatever resources

[2:25:21] Trustee Rogers (probable): you were envisioning having available to you for the fall

[2:25:25] Trustee Rogers (probable): would still be available to you for the fall.

[2:25:29] Trustee Rogers (probable): And so I, I'm a little confused because it almost sounds like there's nobody available to work on this.

[2:25:36] Trustee Rogers (probable): And so can, can I talk about that in generic terms, most individual staff terms?

[2:25:43] Voice 2: Absolutely. So a few, a few things are feeding my, my comments right now. One is we've had a number of vacancies.

[2:25:48] Voice 2: So the program coordinator position has remained vacant. I've had difficulty filling.

[2:25:52] Voice 2: We've also the community communication specialist part time role I'd hope to bring on some time ago is also still vacant so there's, we've had difficulty filling roles so there's an accumulation of work associated with that.

[2:26:04] Voice 2: Also, you might remember we had anticipated that local trust committees would be hosting engagement locally, and there would be, I had anticipated a somewhat reduced role for trust area services staff.

[2:26:15] Voice 2: And I think what's being contemplated now is very much a lead role for trust area services and delivering that.

[2:26:20] Voice 2: that. What we had anticipated simply hasn't had a lot of uptake in terms of being the right

[2:26:26] Voice 2: approach. So now I think we are back to trust area services led on island engagement. So certainly we

[2:26:34] Voice 2: have complement, but I would also say it's been, I've had an opportunity to reflect on how we've

[2:26:38] Voice 2: been delivering this. And I would say there's been an element of stress and overwork for this team

[2:26:44] Voice 2: and just ongoing pressure around heavy workloads. And so it would certainly be beneficial to be

[2:26:50] Voice 2: able to bring more resources in to deliver this in the kind of way that i think is needed to be

[2:26:54] Voice 2: successful and to build that trust that we keep hearing about and

[2:26:59] Voice 13: uh just in support of that you

[2:27:00] Voice 13: know uh we've had exactly that conversation in house the the one that uh vice chair rogers is

[2:27:06] Voice 13: bringing up and um you know i think i think we contemplated um um you know simply a different

[2:27:15] Voice 13: public engagement process following out we felt you know we had a lot of touch points in the first

[2:27:20] Voice 13: couple of pieces um you know the issue identification and um the groundswell of

[2:27:26] Voice 13: of interest in the project um has has taken us to a new place you know there there is a point

[2:27:33] Voice 13: three or a point four of an fte that was you know if you want to get into you know clear and i could

[2:27:39] Voice 13: argue about how much of that is would be um was dedicated before and will be dedicated again

[2:27:46] Voice 13: in what i've what i've got a problem is i can't have the whole trust programs team just doing this

[2:27:53] Voice 13: like um and that's what it's been for you know a really strong amount of you know four or five

[2:28:00] Voice 13: people just essentially doing this one project so how do we break that cycle um is uh on a part-time

[2:28:08] Voice 13: you know not part-time short-term basis um might because something's got to give if we can we've

[2:28:16] Voice 13: got time we've got budget we've got staff those are the resources we can bring to this thing

[2:28:21] Voice 13: something's got to give all those things can't be restrictive so um this is one way to look at

[2:28:27] Voice 13: providing a little bit of a pressure release valve is as i think and ultimately will um help

[2:28:33] Voice 13: everybody involved thanks trustee patrick yeah

[2:28:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): i mean what i would just encourage is don't

[2:28:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): don't underestimate i think you know this is an opportunity that's why i keep looking at this

[2:28:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): this is we are where we are we're in an opportunity uh we have to rise to the challenge and um and i

[2:28:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): would say don't underestimate if we need more i would rather you know we overestimate it in that

[2:29:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): case what we think we need for support to make this happen successfully um so that's all i have

[2:29:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): have to say just

[2:29:11] Voice 5: be fast if anything to add to that yep

[2:29:14] Trustee Fast (probable): just that i um i agree with that i think

[2:29:16] Trustee Fast (probable): that trust policy statement is so important and it's so important that we uh update it now and um

[2:29:27] Trustee Fast (probable): the sooner the better and um i think it's uh a foundational kind of document that um i want to

[2:29:37] Trustee Fast (probable): to reduce the risks of it being derailed.

[2:29:40] Trustee Fast (probable): And so that's why I agree with Trustee Patrick,

[2:29:42] Trustee Fast (probable): we should be, I understand not finding the staff

[2:29:49] Trustee Fast (probable): to fill those positions,

[2:29:50] Trustee Fast (probable): but maybe we do go with consultants or whatever it takes.

[2:29:55] Trustee Fast (probable): I think it would be better to properly resource this project.

[2:30:00] Trustee Fast (probable): even if some other work uh needs to um take a back step for three months or whatever or longer

[2:30:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): um i agree with all of what you said all of you have said and particularly what trustee

[2:30:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): patrick has said by patrick um we're talking about two problems here which

[2:30:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): interestingly enough vice chair patrick uh pointed out at the beginning of the conversation today

[2:30:29] Trustee Luckham (probable): day. And then we were looking at the long list of trust program services a long time ago and

[2:30:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): constantly. And so we're talking about two things here. One, the capacity of TPC to do its day-to-day

[2:30:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): work. And we're talking about a significant project. And we have to be really clear about

[2:30:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): that. Like the first line in that report was, I forget what it was, be honest about our resources

[2:30:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): in our capacity. And so we cannot underestimate the significance of the success here or a failure,

[2:31:04] Trustee Luckham (probable): which means everything that we've spent will be lost for who knows how long. And that may be

[2:31:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): dramatic. But to be honest, $10,000 isn't enough. $20,000 isn't enough. We probably need to allocate

[2:31:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): $50,000 so that somebody can actually take on the challenge of stewarding this project through

[2:31:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): every day for six months, not just three months, but six months to get us through to March,

[2:31:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): or however long it is. And indeed, the bonus will be is TPC will be able to do the work

[2:31:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): that it needs to do day to day, which was presently, and that's not a criticism, Claire,

[2:31:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): You and your team are amazing at what you have accomplished and responding nimbly to my requests and others, and I totally appreciate it, but it's not sustainable, and I see the stresses.

[2:31:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): So, you know, it's for me it's it's it's runway three, and it's spend a decent amount of money to make sure we have the capacity within the staff side of it because there's no sense in spending $150,000 on consultancy and delivery.

[2:32:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): if we don't have the ability to support it.

[2:32:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): Because even in the other phases,

[2:32:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): the trouble is is that council may not want to fund it

[2:32:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): to this level, but they are going to want the outcome.

[2:32:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): They're going to want $150,000 outcome,

[2:32:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): whether they fund it or not.

[2:32:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): And that's just the place that we always end up being in.

[2:32:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): So enough, you get the message,

[2:32:41] Voice 13: let's

[2:32:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): get it done.

[2:32:43] Voice 13: So, what we'll do, Mr. Chair, is we'll return to you with the cover RFD for Trust Council for next week with more, I think there's a couple sentences that reflect Claire's sentiment in the current report, but we'll flush that a little bit more and get it ready.

[2:33:04] Voice 13: Does that sound fair, Claire?

[2:33:05] Voice 2: Yeah, that's great.

[2:33:06] Voice 2: Yeah.

[2:33:06] Voice 13: Okay.

[2:33:07] Voice 13: Thank

[2:33:07] Voice 2: you for this conversation today.

[2:33:08] Voice 2: It will help inform what recommendations we put in there.

[2:33:12] Voice 2: Okay.

[2:33:13] Voice 13: So, if I may, Mr. Chair, just a couple more matters, and that is procurement slash timing.

[2:33:22] Voice 13: So, as you know, we went with a very limited time frame to get us to where we are now from July 22nd.

[2:33:32] Voice 13: But going forward, we will be undertaking a public procurement process of a different nature, more standardized.

[2:33:39] Voice 13: we we do have some options working with the province to accelerate that but those come with

[2:33:44] Voice 13: costs um and so now i have to take you to march and work backwards um whatever outcomes we have

[2:33:55] Voice 13: from the public process will need at minimum um a month's worth of writing um before it's

[2:34:04] Voice 13: gets in front of trust counsel for consideration of first reading that takes us into um and claire

[2:34:11] Voice 13: has has the right to to stop me at any point here into like early february um if not late january

[2:34:19] Voice 13: um we have a promise of a three-month engagement um cycle um though if we go with um version three

[2:34:27] Voice 13: I suspect that version three itself takes you past three months to get the depth that is being

[2:34:35] Voice 13: contemplated so that that puts a potential puts March in threat let's forget about December

[2:34:42] Voice 13: so if you minus in an ideal scenario you take three months away from the beginning of February

[2:34:49] Voice 13: you're into October it would be there will be a three-week public procurement process

[2:34:57] Voice 13: Oh, sorry. Whatever consultant is selected would then need a couple of weeks of getting it ready.

[2:35:02] Voice 13: That takes us into October. And of course, prior to that was, would be a three to four

[2:35:09] Voice 13: week procurement process itself. So you can see that, you know, on the triangle that

[2:35:16] Voice 13: Molly provided, which is a great one. And I, and I, we should use it more scope, you know,

[2:35:21] Voice 13: that triangle of scope cost and time um even march has some challenging time frames associated with

[2:35:30] Voice 13: it essentially a chance for success would have us leaving trust council with unanimity

[2:35:38] Voice 13: in direction and intention for the project and us taking the core elements of the engagement

[2:35:47] Voice 13: strategy that relate to the direction they want to go, flipping that into some public procurement

[2:35:52] Voice 13: documents, getting those out as rapidly as we possibly can, and getting out into the marketplace

[2:35:59] Voice 13: to get something back. So I don't really think I can go into much more detail than that,

[2:36:07] Voice 13: other than to share with you that March is no certainty associated with that, and the

[2:36:14] Voice 13: implications of that and the degree to which we're doing, prior to an election in October,

[2:36:23] Voice 13: we're doing a fundamental public engagement work might be a consideration. But those are

[2:36:30] Voice 13: the stark terms that we have in front of us.

[2:36:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay, thank you. What do you need from us

[2:36:44] Trustee Luckham (probable): at this point and then Dan?

[2:36:46] Voice 13: Well, I think we need an awareness. Claire,

[2:36:48] Voice 13: would you like to tag on anything and be more specific than I've been?

[2:36:52] Voice 2: No, simply just the procurement timelines, you know, might jeopardize timing that as set out in the MODIS report, because it may be, it may be somewhat challenging to secure a consultant in the timeframe set out there.

[2:37:09] Voice 2: we have been exploring as I mentioned in the briefing we have been exploring options with

[2:37:13] Voice 2: the province around opportunities to work through their systems and potentially pre-approved vendor

[2:37:18] Voice 2: lists there but we're continuing those conversations right at this time to see what

[2:37:23] Voice 2: options are and what their administrative fees might be that they might want to charge to us

[2:37:27] Voice 2: to do that so we'll have more information perhaps next week if

[2:37:30] Voice 13: we go through the province there is

[2:37:32] Voice 13: the potential for an accelerated timeline to a certain degree it might get us a couple of

[2:37:37] Voice 13: a few weeks um and so we're you know this is a aside from just the generating of the engagement

[2:37:44] Voice 13: strategy itself it's this this whole back end piece of making all these pieces work this is a

[2:37:50] Voice 13: one of the big ones that we're putting our minds to so

[2:37:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): when you say there'd be a cost to us it's

[2:37:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): a financial cost yes

[2:37:56] Voice 13: okay

[2:37:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): rogers uh

[2:38:00] Trustee Rogers (probable): and a couple of uh pragmatic questions is uh as the developer

[2:38:07] Trustee Rogers (probable): developer of the potential strategy that might be adopted is modus disqualified from being the

[2:38:14] Trustee Rogers (probable): consultant retained uh

[2:38:16] Voice 13: that is not my understanding but that is certainly a question that's um we

[2:38:22] Voice 13: would we would be addressing and this

[2:38:30] Trustee Rogers (probable): is a bit of a i don't know whether i don't know the procurement

[2:38:36] Trustee Rogers (probable): pyramid policies and i know generally they require rfs and all the rest um is it within the realm of

[2:38:45] Trustee Rogers (probable): the authority of trust council to authorize staff to do a direct award of a project of this size

[2:38:56] Trustee Rogers (probable): i'll let you think on that i'll

[2:39:00] Voice 13: think on that i

[2:39:02] Trustee Rogers (probable): mean i know that's totally out of the realm of

[2:39:04] Trustee Rogers (probable): norm yeah uh i just wonder uh whether i hear you on all the timing issues yes

[2:39:13] Voice 13: and uh just

[2:39:14] Voice 13: for the record um there's been uh very clear boundaries um uh determined throughout this

[2:39:22] Voice 13: process around uh the scope of work of this project with modus there's been no discussion

[2:39:26] Voice 13: um i've had no um one-on-one or group discussions with anyone around any potential future um

[2:39:35] Voice 13: uh work with modus on that um on on ongoing work um and that that would be part of any sort of

[2:39:42] Voice 13: um decision that's making that's coming up in the future thank you for making that clear

[2:39:46] Trustee Rogers (probable): and i that's what my understanding from the beginning i just just i'm just i'm not being

[2:39:53] Trustee Rogers (probable): from the world of government um other than now in my elected i guess i am now yeah but not not

[2:40:00] Trustee Rogers (probable): my history is not in that world that's i don't know these things so and i know that standard

[2:40:08] Trustee Rogers (probable): So

[2:40:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): I just have a non-life-threatening crisis that I have to exit for a minute to deal with, and you guys just continue, okay?

[2:40:25] Voice 8: I don't have

[2:40:26] Trustee Rogers (probable): any other questions.

[2:40:27] Trustee Rogers (probable): I hear your considerations.

[2:40:29] Trustee Rogers (probable): I guess my other question is, I don't know if anybody has any reflections on what the reaction of Trust Council, I know what some reaction of Trust Council will be about suggesting a March date, which would be, yes, let's slow down.

[2:40:50] Trustee Rogers (probable): But I wondered if there are any reflections on whether moving from the December to the March date is going to be problematic.

[2:41:00] Voice 13: I don't think so, because at the heart of Trust Council, there's some real practicality and desire for quality work.

[2:41:10] Voice 13: And also, I'll grant the ability to to shift and reassess.

[2:41:18] Voice 13: And, you know, December's just not is not realistic by any stretch.

[2:41:25] Voice 13: and march if this is the way uh trust council wants to go with this um with a variety of different

[2:41:33] Voice 13: interests associated with the policy statement project and that is um bridging some of the

[2:41:40] Voice 13: communications challenges we've had and re-establishing um a space um a trust space

[2:41:46] Voice 13: public trust space um it's uh and using the policy statement as one of the ways to

[2:41:52] Voice 13: to, to bridge that and make that better, then time, time needs to be devoted to it.

[2:42:05] Voice 13: And even March might not be achievable as, as we're outlining to you. And I'll be saying these

[2:42:12] Voice 13: same words when we get to the trust council session as well. And really that's I'd, I'd give

[2:42:22] Voice 13: Claire, anyone else on the team a chance to, to offer anything else up, but we have, I think we've

[2:42:27] Voice 13: got enough to do right now based on this conversation. And I'd just like to thank you for your quick

[2:42:33] Voice 13: reading of the document. And we look forward to spending the next couple of days getting

[2:42:41] Voice 13: something together. This particular piece won't be ready for Friday publication of the

[2:42:47] Voice 13: EC agenda. It will be early next week, but the other pieces will go ahead. Anything else,

[2:42:55] Voice 13: claire yeah

[2:42:56] Voice 2: i would just say i um working with best available information we'll write up those

[2:43:01] Voice 2: project charters as though you know we're still intending first reading for march and that can

[2:43:05] Voice 2: be a point for discussion for trust council but certainly those project charters demand a certain

[2:43:10] Voice 2: level of precision so i'll work within that based on what i've heard today and then that can be

[2:43:15] Voice 2: um discussed i guess i suppose it's

[2:43:20] Voice 13: not a lowering of standard claire it is a refinement

[2:43:26] Voice 2: I think we're here to provide what the best outcome possible and so we wanted to you know

[2:43:33] Voice 2: hear from all trustees around what that looks like for them and develop the project accordingly

[2:43:37] Voice 2: yeah

[2:43:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): um you know let's not be conservative if we have to ask for more let council tell us that

[2:43:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): you're going to get less but let's make sure we're doing doing the right thing

[2:43:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): okay uh thank you everybody sorry about that uh wife and grandchild locked out of the security

[2:44:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): system resolved um let us uh are we okay we're at a quarter to 12 here we'll continue with the

[2:44:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): uh trust council meeting preparation and uh and then we maybe schedule a break

[2:44:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): shortly after 12 or so depending on where the line is drawn is that okay with everybody

[2:44:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): everybody yeah all right so then uh the first item here another very interesting topic is 5.11

[2:44:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): tree cutting authority session outline and background or briefing 10-16 um really good

[2:44:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): work here um ceo hudson pillar and your team thank you over to you okay

[2:44:45] Voice 13: um this is uh we just

[2:44:47] Voice 13: took the opportunity to that you had a special meeting to get you some uh some pieces that you

[2:44:58] Voice 13: know you you're you're going to see again um i'm just doing up the agenda here um to get you some

[2:45:13] Voice 13: pieces that you'll be approving going forward to trust council um as we look at the schedule we've

[2:45:17] Voice 13: got two or three um issue-based discussion moments for um trust council you know i've had uh felt a

[2:45:27] Voice 13: sense of urgency around urgency and um while we get direction often sometimes that direction needs

[2:45:36] Voice 13: to be backed up with um intention and that's what this exercise is around um the forestry question

[2:45:44] Voice 13: It's diving in a little deeper with the trustees and around what this could be.

[2:45:51] Voice 13: The outcomes of that conversation will go to a problem definition communication between Chair Luckham and the ministry around refining our ask.

[2:46:03] Voice 13: And I'll be doing that work in October.

[2:46:06] Voice 13: There hasn't been a lot of discussion.

[2:46:08] Voice 13: Certainly forestry has been top of mind, you know, through the summer for a variety of different reasons.

[2:46:15] Voice 13: But I haven't had any conversations with the ministry in the last six weeks or two months around that.

[2:46:22] Voice 13: I think they're waiting for some material.

[2:46:24] Voice 13: So that's what this is in support of.

[2:46:26] Voice 13: I've put together a briefing.

[2:46:27] Voice 13: It feels like I'm doing the same briefing over and over again, but that's okay.

[2:46:33] Voice 13: It's now crystallizing into a series of questions, teasing out some questions.

[2:46:38] Voice 13: um and so there's a bit of a briefing here that's going to set up the trustees for that

[2:46:43] Voice 13: conversation it's missing i had a good conversation with lisa it's missing um the uh the cultural

[2:46:50] Voice 13: heritage um tree mapping and how how trustees see this power relating to that issue um on the

[2:47:01] Voice 13: island so i will add that in with her guidance um but uh that's that's essentially the briefing

[2:47:09] Voice 13: with the backgrounder the way it's going to flow is i will uh what i was thinking of doing actually

[2:47:16] Voice 13: is providing a an example of a rural municipality who has a municipal tree cutting bylaw and walking

[2:47:27] Voice 13: through the scope of that bylaw just as a 15-minute introductory piece and it just starts

[2:47:33] Voice 13: to get us really practical around what could or could not be achieved potentially and we'll see

[2:47:40] Voice 13: where the you know we'll do that and then we're it's going to be awkward I'll tell you why it's

[2:47:45] Voice 13: going to be awkward we're then going to break out into breakout rooms arbitrary breakout rooms

[2:47:52] Voice 13: and each of the senior staff bless their hearts are going to facilitate and take notes on the

[2:47:58] Voice 13: conversation the conversation will be around these core questions and we'll take notes and then come

[2:48:02] Voice 13: back and collate the reason it's going to be a challenge we're making laurie's life a bit

[2:48:07] Voice 13: difficult normally on zoom allows you to just go into breakout rooms i'm sure you've been in

[2:48:12] Voice 13: a couple of sessions like that but you can't have the public um then in each of those rooms in the

[2:48:21] Voice 13: breakout room format of zoom if you will so what it's going to need is four separate meetings so

[2:48:28] Voice 13: we'll be in the trust council meeting then we'll have to go into four separate meetings and then

[2:48:33] Voice 13: we're going to have to come back to the trust council zoom meeting so unless you just hate it

[2:48:39] Voice 13: and you want to do it in the have these questions dealt with in a plenary session

[2:48:44] Voice 13: of trust council i can certainly we can certainly go that direction if you want i i don't know

[2:48:51] Voice 13: know whether we get the outcome that we want um there because i think the breakout rooms

[2:48:56] Voice 13: allows people who would not normally or allows and compels um people to participate in areas that

[2:49:07] Voice 13: you know this will be a significant thing that will happen on um each of the islands the islands

[2:49:13] Voice 13: trust that this gets realized in some future so um there we have it is there anything you'd like

[2:49:20] Voice 13: like me to change in this or do you feel we're going the right approach we did talk about this

[2:49:23] Voice 13: generally at our last ec meeting and you wanted to have it happen and it's it's this is the

[2:49:28] Voice 13: suggested process okay

[2:49:30] Voice 5: let's see laura patrick over to you i

[2:49:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): fully support the breakout groups

[2:49:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): and i know it might be awkward and people will have to choose but i think we you know we need

[2:49:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): to spend some time working together and we'd get a better outcome than having to have 26 people try

[2:49:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): to wander around these topics my only question the first question what is your core concern with

[2:49:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): regards to forestry activity is the question more what what are what are the activities

[2:49:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): that you have concerns with because forestry activities i mean i guess so i mean i'm thinking

[2:50:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): is

[2:50:06] Voice 13: it land disturbance is that a better word because certainly at a staff level when we

[2:50:10] Voice 13: talked about this some of uh you know uh i know kate i know claire um some of the people uh the

[2:50:16] Voice 13: the plans are going is that more of a land disturbance issue as opposed to discreetly

[2:50:21] Voice 13: a forestry issue yeah

[2:50:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): because it's why are trees being cut down firewood road clear building roads

[2:50:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): clearing to build a house you know those those type of things so i think is that the kind of

[2:50:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): conversation what what are the activities that are creating the loss of habitat because that

[2:50:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): affects the solutions to them um

[2:50:45] Voice 13: well now i almost see it as almost a separate question

[2:50:51] Voice 13: a concern is a political like there's going to be activities that are happening but i'm expecting

[2:50:58] Voice 13: that there are well even on on salt spring you know over the last two years um there were

[2:51:05] Voice 13: expressed concerns from the public the public approaching um yourselves um and the trustees

[2:51:12] Voice 13: around forestry activity the same on Gambier I mean on Bowen so I'm happy to refine that but

[2:51:23] Voice 13: want to make sure we've got concerns that are leading to a request for this authority

[2:51:33] Voice 13: so

[2:51:33] Voice 12: what are the activities that are causing

[2:51:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): the greatest concern or something okay

[2:51:49] Voice 12: so

[2:51:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): trustee fast

[2:51:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): yeah

[2:51:52] Trustee Fast (probable): i agree with making that change because forestry activity on bowen implies logging

[2:51:58] Trustee Fast (probable): whereas one of the things we're seeing is a loss of arbutus trees along the shoreline or or whatever

[2:52:05] Trustee Fast (probable): it can be species specific sanich has some specific kinds of tree species that they deal

[2:52:14] Trustee Fast (probable): with so i like the i like moving away from the words forestry activity is um is

[2:52:22] Voice 13: for on forest

[2:52:23] Voice 13: lands no no

[2:52:26] Trustee Fast (probable): okay

[2:52:27] Voice 13: regarding

[2:52:29] Trustee Fast (probable): trees maybe but yeah

[2:52:33] Voice 5: dan are you gonna chime in here or should i

[2:52:42] Trustee Rogers (probable): no um generally i support the approach i i hate breakout rooms but i'll go along and um

[2:52:53] Trustee Rogers (probable): But I can imagine this will not be doable with 26.

[2:53:01] Trustee Rogers (probable): But anyway, no, I have nothing really.

[2:53:03] Trustee Rogers (probable): I think the CAO knows what he needs to know.

[2:53:07] Trustee Rogers (probable): And what we need to know.

[2:53:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): Right.

[2:53:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): So I appreciate the challenge with the breakout rooms.

[2:53:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): But you know what?

[2:53:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): We've done amazing things with Zoom over the last 18, 20 months.

[2:53:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): Why not raise the bar a little higher?

[2:53:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): And I have

[2:53:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): confidence that we'll be able to pull it off.

[2:53:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): It may be a bit clunky, but I support Trustee Patrick's notion to let's do this.

[2:53:32] Trustee Rogers (probable): Well, over to Laurie then.

[2:53:34] Trustee Rogers (probable): The irony, of course, is if we were meeting in person and we went to breakout rooms,

[2:53:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): we rarely

[2:53:40] Trustee Rogers (probable): have anybody watching us.

[2:53:42] Trustee Rogers (probable): They never come along and watch us.

[2:53:45] Trustee Rogers (probable): But we have to do it now.

[2:53:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): Well, this is the new paradigm.

[2:53:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): And

[2:53:50] Voice 13: it's an exercise in public participation electronically. It's getting more. Trustee Patrick or anyone else, send me a note if you have any refinements on that question and I'll add it to the thing. Otherwise, I'll just proceed with kind of the notes I've made here. Thanks.

[2:54:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay, well, I'll just chime in that actually habitat loss is the phraseology that I like to think of because it embraces, you know, it even kind of wanders a bit into forestry, but I do think there's a distinction.

[2:54:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): And I think there's a misunderstanding whenever we use the words forestry, logging, clear cut means different things to different people because if somebody's clear cutting their lot, sure, okay, they cut all the trees down on their lot to build a house or build a road or whatever it is.

[2:54:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): but to me is when somebody's cleared 70 hectares of land for logs and that's different and i think

[2:54:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): that you have really crystallized uh this and i thank you for taking the this has been an iterative

[2:54:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): process but i think what you've done is crystallize it with questions to council and i'm hopeful that

[2:54:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): we'll come out of this with some answers okay

[2:54:56] Voice 13: thank you so i'll

[2:54:59] Voice 13: refine that and we'll put it

[2:55:00] Voice 13: it on the agenda for the 8th so that you can approve it. Excellent. Thanks. Thank

[2:55:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): you for the

[2:55:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): persistent approach to getting this through.

[2:55:11] Voice 13: I know someone's going to get irritated at some

[2:55:13] Voice 13: point, but we're moving it forward.

[2:55:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): So next item, and to be quite honest, I didn't have enough time

[2:55:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): to go through this in detail myself. The amendments to council policy 2.1.2 standards of conduct RFP

[2:55:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): um would like to know is your expectation to forward this to council here today or are we

[2:55:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): going to get that in the package on the 8th to forward to council i

[2:55:39] Voice 13: yeah no this today is an

[2:55:41] Voice 13: opportunity to um um essentially take up a mid-august meeting space so you'd get a little

[2:55:47] Voice 13: bit of foreshadowing it just happens that they're five days apart um carmen's been working on this

[2:55:52] Voice 13: It's one of our top, I think, 14 or 16 policy pieces of policy work that you endorsed previously.

[2:56:01] Voice 13: But it is significant because it speaks to issues that have come up a number of times.

[2:56:09] Voice 13: And I thank Carmen for her work.

[2:56:13] Voice 13: Specifically, the standards of conduct policy has been longstanding and might not be as

[2:56:20] Voice 13: as modern as, you know, it probably predates the digital age in some ways, and the advent

[2:56:29] Voice 13: of, you know, governance as is expressed right now, and it didn't have a process inside it

[2:56:38] Voice 13: for investigation or consideration of any given behavior, so that's one thing that's

[2:56:45] Voice 13: new, and of course, there's a secondary question here, the question of attendance, which has

[2:56:50] Voice 13: come up um previously it's not addressed in this paper um if you feel you know i'm going to turn

[2:56:56] Voice 13: it over to carmen for for her overview but um if you feel um you're not ready to send it to trust

[2:57:03] Voice 13: council yet then we take your direction of course um but um the intention is to move it to trust

[2:57:11] Voice 13: council for consideration as soon as we possibly can so carmen maybe you could provide us a little

[2:57:16] Voice 13: overview of your work.

[2:57:17] Voice 11: Sure. And I did want to get this on this agenda so that if you have any

[2:57:21] Voice 11: suggestions for changes, they could be made and reviewed at your meeting next week and then

[2:57:27] Voice 11: forwarded on to council if you so choose. So I'll try and be quick about this. But if we went to

[2:57:34] Voice 11: page 25, Laurie, we could look at the track changes. And I'll just give a little overview

[2:57:41] Voice 11: view of the changes. I've replaced gender-specific pronouns with gender-neutral pronouns, something

[2:57:46] Voice 11: that Trustee Fass mentioned a couple of meetings ago. Added definitions for appointed officers,

[2:57:52] Voice 11: what a member is, basically a member of a committee or council, a trustee and a trust official.

[2:57:58] Voice 11: Included some language about expectations during election campaign periods. In other words,

[2:58:04] Voice 11: not using any Islands Trust resources for campaigns. I've added a new Section 5 about

[2:58:10] Voice 11: about expectations, conduct, and behavior at meetings,

[2:58:13] Voice 11: which I'd like to focus on,

[2:58:15] Voice 11: and flushed out section six

[2:58:18] Voice 11: regarding standards of conduct review panel.

[2:58:22] Voice 11: And I must say, I catch the words

[2:58:23] Voice 11: from one of the more well-written policies

[2:58:26] Voice 11: that I looked at from another jurisdiction.

[2:58:30] Voice 11: And it details how potential breaches will be handled.

[2:58:36] Voice 11: And finally, put in a requirement

[2:58:38] Voice 11: that the standards of conduct policy be reviewed during orientation session with trustees and

[2:58:44] Voice 11: some jurisdictions actually have each elected person when they're being going through their

[2:58:49] Voice 11: orientation have them sign up on the standards to ensure they've read them and understand them

[2:58:54] Voice 11: and so on so do

[2:58:57] Voice 13: role playing at that point yeah yeah that that might be a good

[2:59:01] Voice 13: skit or something

[2:59:02] Voice 13: something like that. One

[2:59:03] Voice 11: question I have for this policy in the very beginning under purpose on page

[2:59:10] Voice 11: 25, it says present standards of conduct to guide elected officials and appointed officers. So that

[2:59:17] Voice 11: all seems fine. But then in the original policy, a little farther along under B, it refers to

[2:59:26] Voice 11: to governing the conduct of elected officials,

[2:59:29] Voice 11: appointed officials or staff.

[2:59:32] Voice 11: So I'm wondering, do we want to leave staff in here

[2:59:35] Voice 11: or make it more specific to senior staff

[2:59:38] Voice 11: and particularly focusing on trustees?

[2:59:42] Voice 11: My inclination is to take staff out of here

[2:59:45] Voice 11: because staff all take an oath of office when,

[2:59:47] Voice 11: or not an oath of office, oath of employment

[2:59:49] Voice 11: when they start work at the provincial government.

[2:59:52] Voice 11: Yeah.

[2:59:53] Voice 11: Question there.

[2:59:54] Voice 11: Mayor. I saw Trustee Fast.

[2:59:56] Trustee Fast (probable): Sure. My inclination would be to

[3:00:00] Trustee Fast (probable): leave staff out i think this is a

[3:00:02] Trustee Fast (probable): standard of contact for trustees my question is about

[3:00:06] Trustee Fast (probable): definition of trustee uh islands trust conservancy would they be covered by this because the

[3:00:13] Trustee Fast (probable): appointed members of the islands trust conservancy board i believe are also called trustees yeah

[3:00:19] Voice 11: actually the conservancy has its own code of conduct just check and i did take a couple of

[3:00:24] Voice 11: sections from that to put in here too because they were so well written thank you just checking so i

[3:00:31] Voice 11: do see um places in here where um senior uh staff that are appointed by trust council like russ's

[3:00:39] Voice 11: position and so on my position julia's uh they might be affected by this policy in the behavior

[3:00:46] Voice 11: that we're expected to follow but as far as all all 50 some odd staff members they don't really

[3:00:52] Voice 11: really see the need to include that in here. So that's one thing.

[3:01:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): But I'll just ask while you're looking there, I'm presuming that all of the senior staff

[3:01:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): also take some kind of an oath. Yes, we all do. We all do. Yeah. So really is that the CAO is the

[3:01:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): only one that gets a single employer concept, right? We're only responsible for the CAO.

[3:01:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): he's responsible for everybody else okay

[3:01:24] Voice 11: so did you want me to take appointed officers out of

[3:01:28] Voice 11: here because it is peppered throughout in the policy as it's come along in the last many years

[3:01:33] Voice 11: well

[3:01:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): now you've said the word appointed officers because indeed the council appoints

[3:01:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): the legislative um authority in the offices secretary you

[3:01:44] Voice 11: appoint you appoint a cao you

[3:01:46] Voice 11: appoint my position and you appoint a treasurer and any other positions as you see fit yeah there

[3:01:52] Voice 11: are certain positions that you have to have appointed to function

[3:01:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): at the local government

[3:01:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): okay so i would take your advice on that whatever that seems okay okay and then laurie dan rogers

[3:02:07] Trustee Rogers (probable): um i i i think there should be a separate if we need a policy related to appointed officers

[3:02:12] Trustee Rogers (probable): is separate from this policy i think staff is a you know we have a union for all the other staff

[3:02:17] Trustee Rogers (probable): and the appointed officers if we need a policy we should create one it should be it should not

[3:02:22] Trustee Rogers (probable): be this policy this is a elected officials standard conduct okay

[3:02:28] Voice 11: so i could strip out

[3:02:30] Voice 11: any reference to appointed official then because there is a section in here um under the performance

[3:02:38] Voice 11: of duties and that tells the appointed officers basically to stay out of politics it goes over

[3:02:47] Voice 11: the role of elected officials as opposed to appointed officials who stay out of the politics

[3:02:54] Voice 11: of matters yeah

[3:02:56] Trustee Rogers (probable): that's 2.6 8.1

[3:03:01] Voice 4: .2.6 yeah uh

[3:03:03] Trustee Rogers (probable): yeah um i i i just think it should be different in a

[3:03:10] Trustee Rogers (probable): a different policy if we need one okay um personally i just don't think we should be

[3:03:15] Trustee Rogers (probable): mixing the two so

[3:03:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): i'm not seeing any objections i saw a thumbs up so i think we'll concur with

[3:03:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): you dan and leave that with carmen all right take

[3:03:25] Voice 11: that out uh then laurie if you went to page 27

[3:03:29] Voice 11: and uh start at uh 4.7 uh that's a new uh clause about not undertaking election campaign related

[3:03:39] Voice 11: related activities during a campaign, and not use any staff resources and so on. And we

[3:03:47] Voice 11: reiterate this to staff and trustees prior to elections, to basically stay in your own lane

[3:03:54] Voice 11: on this kind of thing. And then under meetings, you wanted more detail about meetings. So there's

[3:04:03] Voice 11: a whole section added here but uh 5.1 is something that we zeroed in on and i actually had a

[3:04:11] Voice 11: discussion with young anderson about whether trust council policy can require trustees to

[3:04:19] Voice 11: adhere to more stringent meeting attendance standards than those provided in the charter

[3:04:24] Voice 11: so in the charter if you miss four consecutive meetings which in and the island's trust world

[3:04:32] Voice 11: or trust council world would be a year's worth of meetings or 60 consecutive days worth of meetings

[3:04:39] Voice 11: then you can be disqualified now that doesn't really work for islands trust bodies that well

[3:04:45] Voice 11: particularly trust council because of the span between meetings but nevertheless the section

[3:04:50] Voice 11: does apply to us but the bottom line for the advice i got is we cannot be more restrictive

[3:04:56] Voice 11: in policies than what is written in the legislation on that um there is an expectation overall that

[3:05:05] Voice 11: elected officials have an obligation to attend meetings unless they're seriously ill or with

[3:05:10] Voice 11: the leave of council and that's that section in the community charter that applies to trustees

[3:05:16] Voice 11: um so the advice i got about the policy language was to be encouraging and take a softer approach

[3:05:22] Voice 11: rather than a prescriptive one, about meeting attendance.

[3:05:26] Voice 11: And I also discussed the fact that trustees entering

[3:05:30] Voice 11: and leaving during a meeting might be a product

[3:05:33] Voice 11: of online meetings that we've had for a year and a half,

[3:05:36] Voice 11: because it's easier to do than standing up at a meeting

[3:05:39] Voice 11: and leaving numerous times throughout the meeting.

[3:05:41] Voice 11: It's more noticeable, I guess, in an in-person meeting.

[3:05:46] Voice 11: So it may be a side effect

[3:05:48] Voice 11: of the numerous online meetings we had,

[3:05:51] Voice 11: and maybe it won't be so prevalent when we return to in-person and also we could require trustees

[3:05:58] Voice 11: to state why they're not able to attend a meeting when they send regrets because technically it's

[3:06:04] Voice 11: supposed to be either you're seriously ill or you have another reason that requires leave of council

[3:06:11] Voice 11: so one of the suggestions that was made if we look at 5.1 we could add another sentence in there

[3:06:18] Voice 11: at the end to say elected officials have an obligation to attend meetings and the expectation

[3:06:25] Voice 11: is that trustees will attend meetings for the duration of the meeting unless they are ill or

[3:06:31] Voice 11: with the leave of council so that's uh one suggested wording you may have uh other suggestions

[3:06:38] Voice 11: for that but i could definitely beef that up so at least there'd be one clause in the policy that

[3:06:43] Voice 11: that addressed meeting attendance.

[3:06:46] Voice 11: And I was hoping for some feedback on that.

[3:06:52] Trustee Luckham (probable): Any feedback at Dan Rogers and Trustee Fah and Ms. Suellen?

[3:06:56] Trustee Rogers (probable): Suellen had her hand up first, so I'll let her go.

[3:06:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): Go ahead.

[3:07:00] Trustee Fast (probable): Just that I think that that's good to put in there.

[3:07:03] Trustee Fast (probable): It reflects the charter

[3:07:04] Trustee Fast (probable): and it states an expectation clearly.

[3:07:09] Trustee Fast (probable): So trustees can see whether they're following

[3:07:12] Trustee Fast (probable): the standard of conduct or not.

[3:07:13] Trustee Fast (probable): Did I stay to the end?

[3:07:14] Trustee Fast (probable): I think that's good, thank you.

[3:07:16] Trustee Fast (probable): i i like the idea of adding that little sentence okay

[3:07:20] Trustee Rogers (probable): yeah i'm a little um less enthusiastic

[3:07:26] Trustee Rogers (probable): i think compelling personal reasons can often be a reason people absent themselves from

[3:07:33] Trustee Rogers (probable): uh like child care or uh and and i don't i think that some folks would be would see it as

[3:07:45] Trustee Rogers (probable): a bit of overreach if we said with the leave of council um i i i would expect notification

[3:07:56] Trustee Rogers (probable): but if if somebody says i have a compelling personal reason to be away um from this meeting

[3:08:06] Trustee Rogers (probable): uh i would not want to have them uh justify that so i would just i would probably

[3:08:14] Trustee Rogers (probable): use the words or compelling reasonable personal reasons with notification to council

[3:08:22] Trustee Rogers (probable): so i that's and i realize that's that's that opens a hole that can can you can drive a truck

[3:08:30] Trustee Rogers (probable): through, but I also don't want to get too much into a control mechanism related to trustees.

[3:08:43] Voice 8: Okay.

[3:08:44] Voice 8: That's my view.

[3:08:47] Voice 16: I don't mind adding language, but I would not say with leave of counsel.

[3:08:53] Voice 16: That

[3:08:54] Voice 11: wording comes right out of the community charter, but I agree,

[3:08:58] Voice 11: it's definitely open to interpretation. If you have a compelling reason, you're not asking for

[3:09:04] Voice 11: permission to not attend you're you're notifying that you're not able to correct yeah and and

[3:09:11] Trustee Rogers (probable): sometimes that's a fairy and sometimes that's a child care situation sometimes that's an elder

[3:09:18] Trustee Rogers (probable): care situation sometimes an emergency arises at your business because some people are working

[3:09:23] Trustee Rogers (probable): elsewhere and so there's a lot of nuances here i would just like to reinforce the fact that people

[3:09:32] Trustee Rogers (probable): are committing to

[3:09:34] Voice 16: attending other than there's an expectation that they attend okay

[3:09:39] Voice 11: so i could

[3:09:40] Voice 11: change the wording for you to look at next week and um and include the wording that trustee rogers

[3:09:46] Voice 11: has just given instead of by the leave of council and

[3:09:52] Voice 16: and can i just say one other thing i think

[3:09:54] Voice 16: the remainder we don't need to go through these one by one in my view my understanding is that

[3:09:59] Voice 16: Because I went and looked, almost all of the rest of them are word for word from the UBCM model code, aren't they?

[3:10:09] Voice 11: Correct, they are.

[3:10:10] Voice 11: And they've been picked up by some of the jurisdictions that I looked at who adopted recent codes, and they used it pretty much word for word.

[3:10:17] Voice 11: So unless you had any issues with any of the specific wording here, I think it's probably pretty common in codes of conduct.

[3:10:27] Voice 11: contact and

[3:10:28] Trustee Rogers (probable): and so what though i was just going to make this suggestion is that in the cover memo

[3:10:33] Trustee Rogers (probable): you link to that i mean you reference it that you looked at it but that you link to that because

[3:10:39] Trustee Rogers (probable): uh that will you know when people go well why should i have to be i don't know consider all

[3:10:49] Trustee Rogers (probable): relevant facts and then and then they can go and look well that's what the ubcm committee came up

[3:10:54] Trustee Rogers (probable): up with.

[3:10:54] Voice 11: Sure. It's

[3:10:55] Trustee Rogers (probable): been adopted. So if you could link to that, I'd appreciate it.

[3:10:58] Voice 11: Yeah. And I think

[3:10:59] Voice 11: that working group worked on this for a considerable amount of time. So I think it's

[3:11:04] Voice 11: pretty well thought out. And the same goes for the process for the review panel later on.

[3:11:10] Voice 11: There being informal ways to handle things where that's appropriate, but where you need to get

[3:11:15] Voice 11: formal, you can get pretty formal with it. Yeah. So I can stop with the review then and make these

[3:11:24] Voice 11: suggested changes put that link

[3:11:26] Trustee Rogers (probable): i i do have a i want to give some feedback regarding the review

[3:11:30] Trustee Rogers (probable): panel i got some i got some informal feedback from a trustee about this policy oh okay and the

[3:11:36] Trustee Rogers (probable): concerns were about uh the the six month time frame that a complaint can be brought forward

[3:11:42] Trustee Rogers (probable): um and also whether the whether there should be someone other than the executive and the cao

[3:11:49] Trustee Rogers (probable): involved in the review panel um i.e a different trustee and

[3:11:55] Voice 11: i just throw that on lori could you

[3:11:58] Voice 11: go to the um section six which is probably on the next page there

[3:12:03] Trustee Rogers (probable): it is so i just i just wanted to

[3:12:08] Trustee Rogers (probable): put that out there that that uh i got that feedback i i haven't thought i i wonder where

[3:12:15] Trustee Rogers (probable): the six months comes from uh it seems like a long time to be able to go backwards uh and then the

[3:12:21] Trustee Rogers (probable): CAO can allow even further backwards. And then the involvement of whether we should

[3:12:31] Trustee Rogers (probable): create a process where perhaps the review panel has someone other than just the executive committee

[3:12:38] Trustee Rogers (probable): on it. I don't know about that. It strikes me, given that we don't make a decision, it's not a

[3:12:46] Trustee Rogers (probable): a deal but i just throw that out there for others no

[3:12:49] Voice 11: i'd need suggestions for what to change if that

[3:12:53] Voice 11: was the case yeah if we wanted someone other than executive committee we could certainly tweak that

[3:12:58] Voice 11: six months i assume that six months is based on someone's experience in the past on something

[3:13:04] Voice 11: dragging on but uh you know i could change it to three months you could leave it open-ended

[3:13:09] Voice 11: it no

[3:13:11] Voice 4: don't specify a time lapse yeah

[3:13:16] Voice 8: anyway

[3:13:17] Trustee Rogers (probable): uh

[3:13:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): you can bring that back to us i think well i i'd

[3:13:22] Trustee Rogers (probable): suggest three months because that gives that that's the time frame between trust councils

[3:13:26] Trustee Rogers (probable): so if someone wants to make a complaint they should probably do so by the time the next trust

[3:13:32] Trustee Rogers (probable): council rolls around

[3:13:33] Voice 8: that's fair yeah and

[3:13:39] Voice 11: then uh yeah just uh goes through how the process will

[3:13:42] Voice 11: work. And if you need a third party to come in, each side can choose, propose a member to be that

[3:13:51] Voice 11: third party. And then an agreement has to be made on that or in lieu of that solicitor that

[3:13:57] Voice 11: specializes in investigations.

[3:13:59] Trustee Rogers (probable): Yeah. Let me just tell you as the CAO, and you are probably fully

[3:14:05] Trustee Rogers (probable): aware if we ever end up in that process it's expensive

[3:14:09] Voice 7: yeah

[3:14:10] Voice 5: yeah okay

[3:14:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): so i have a i think

[3:14:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): maybe we're concluded here but i did i just have two remarks and i like i said earlier i apologize

[3:14:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): i didn't have the capacity to give this my full attention so possibly i've missed an area

[3:14:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): um the the questions that have come up to me from other trustees and members of the public

[3:14:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): that I think warrant consideration is that and I'll just say that in a situation where

[3:14:43] Trustee Luckham (probable): a meeting schedule is known in advance right trustees should schedule their personal lives

[3:14:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): accordingly to attend and it seems to me that that isn't necessary and others that it's not

[3:14:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): necessarily the case in all situations so that's the kind of the one issue and is there a mechanism

[3:15:04] Trustee Luckham (probable): is a way of saying that in a way that is a code of conduct

[3:15:09] Voice 11: clause? I mean, under meetings, we say

[3:15:13] Voice 11: members must adequately prepare for and regularly attend meetings of trust bodies to which they have

[3:15:19] Voice 11: been elected or appointed. I mean, that is the overall expectation that you will be available

[3:15:24] Voice 11: and are obliged to attend meetings.

[3:15:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay. So then that answers that question. So the next question

[3:15:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): then is which is again has been brought up to me by members of the public and by trustees that

[3:15:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): voting um if a trustee has an intention to vote on a decision that trustee should participate and

[3:15:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): listen to the debate

[3:15:48] Voice 11: yes and we do have applause about that under the meeting section during

[3:15:54] Voice 11: meetings members shall listen courteously and attentively to all discussions before the body

[3:16:00] Voice 11: and focus on the issues and facts that partially covers that yeah that's not uh when it's been

[3:16:09] Voice 11: asked yeah when making decisions members must consider all relevant facts opinions and analyses

[3:16:15] Voice 11: of which they should be reasonably aware and so maybe

[3:16:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): that should have the word and debate

[3:16:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): opinion

[3:16:27] Voice 11: debate and analysis something like that yeah

[3:16:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): it's

[3:16:31] Voice 11: just that's been brought to my attention

[3:16:32] Voice 11: yeah so

[3:16:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): then does that conclude the discussion on amendments to trust council policy 2.12

[3:16:44] Voice 13: except for mr chair if i may yeah

[3:16:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): um

[3:16:48] Voice 13: yeah we talked about how there's this link between the

[3:16:51] Voice 13: ubcm and you know a standardization of the code there are some elements that are islands trust

[3:16:56] Voice 13: specific in here and carmen i haven't discussed this so i'll apologize but i take us to 2.7

[3:17:01] Voice 13: which has popped up a couple of times

[3:17:04] Voice 13: ever since I've been at the trust.

[3:17:08] Voice 13: And is there comfort in the current language around 2.7?

[3:17:13] Voice 13: And because this does relate to specifically

[3:17:16] Voice 13: to the nature of the Allen's Trust,

[3:17:19] Voice 13: whereas in most, we don't have a borough system

[3:17:22] Voice 13: in local governance in other places, right?

[3:17:26] Voice 13: So this is around LTCs and so forth.

[3:17:32] Voice 13: but it can remain as is, or you can contemplate it,

[3:17:36] Voice 13: that section for anything that when you get it next week,

[3:17:43] Voice 13: Carmen.

[3:17:44] Voice 13: So

[3:17:45] Voice 11: you're aware that section was tweaked in 2017.

[3:17:49] Voice 11: We broadened it because before that we said,

[3:17:52] Voice 11: stick to your own local trust area with your comments,

[3:17:54] Voice 11: but we actually amended that to be more flexible where it affected other

[3:18:00] Voice 11: local trust areas or the trust as a whole.

[3:18:04] Trustee Luckham (probable): So I guess the trouble there might be with the word avoid

[3:18:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): and should we have a question for me

[3:18:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): is should we have stronger

[3:18:11] Voice 4: language associated with that?

[3:18:17] Voice 4: So how about you consider that and we'll see it on the 8th.

[3:18:20] Trustee Rogers (probable): I just want to reiterate it

[3:18:23] Trustee Rogers (probable): because I think I drafted that

[3:18:25] Trustee Rogers (probable): because there was a scenario in 20 related to Salt Spring

[3:18:32] Trustee Rogers (probable): where there was a debate between trustees

[3:18:35] Trustee Rogers (probable): about some trustees wanted to weigh in

[3:18:37] Trustee Rogers (probable): on the incorporation discussion from other local trust areas and that became contentious um so i

[3:18:48] Trustee Rogers (probable): i'm not wedded to it but uh if there's some way that you want i i'm comfortable with it uh at the

[3:18:56] Trustee Rogers (probable): intent of it but if you think the language needs to be stronger i don't i'm not really wedded to

[3:19:01] Trustee Rogers (probable): with the actual words that are chosen well

[3:19:09] Voice 4: um i would

[3:19:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): just say uh in trying to be uh objective

[3:19:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): that if there's a suggestion from staff about strengthening it then we would consider that

[3:19:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): our next meeting okay thank you thank you ceo for bringing that up um then therefore you know

[3:19:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): i'm looking at the time here we're at uh 12 20 is your time perhaps i might be well we've actually

[3:19:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): you got a mirror discussion here as a late business item as well you guys want to break

[3:19:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): for lunch and come back and just wrap this up rather than try and push to get through oh well

[3:19:46] Trustee Rogers (probable): personally i'd prefer we just finish the last two items but that i'll i'll take direction from

[3:19:51] Trustee Rogers (probable): everybody else

[3:19:52] Trustee Luckham (probable): right um i'm easy one way or the other staff i'm always cognizant of staff's need

[3:19:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): to go for breaks uh ceo hudson pillar on behalf of staff do you want a break well

[3:20:03] Voice 13: um i'm happy

[3:20:04] Voice 13: to push through um we've got a lot of work to do but uh you know they have their own voice in this

[3:20:11] Voice 13: so i won't speak for them particularly

[3:20:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): anybody anybody objecting to pushing through no let's

[3:20:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): push through so the september trust council draft schedule over to ucal hudson pillar

[3:20:23] Voice 13: okay well here we are um uh we're getting close to confirming this um as has been our practice

[3:20:31] Voice 13: we have uh just broadly we have the town hall on the tuesday evening um and that carries on

[3:20:38] Voice 13: with delegations beforehand at seven um i uh the forestry session is scheduled for the first day

[3:20:48] Voice 13: um so that's um a think piece there aren't a tremendous amount of um discrete items on this

[3:20:57] Voice 13: Agenda. We will have the electronic meetings briefing and you're aware and you'll get that report. It's written and you'll get that report for your, your meeting coming up where we were recalibrating our position or our recommendation for right now we're not contemplating

[3:21:17] Voice 13: either the technology that we provided before or the the the one FTE at this point.

[3:21:27] Voice 13: and we'll have a strategic plan update as well and then we're going into wednesday um nine o'clock

[3:21:33] Voice 13: that will be i think that's an appropriate place frankly for to start the discussion around the

[3:21:39] Voice 13: policy statement engagement everyone's fresh and uh the debate or discussion can go as long as it

[3:21:45] Voice 13: needs to because there is some recovery time later on that being said it will need to be split

[3:21:50] Voice 13: because we do have guests uh coming at 10 45 and at one o'clock so the middle of that wednesday is

[3:21:57] Voice 13: um you know a different form of participation by trustees and trust council um back and forth it's

[3:22:04] Voice 13: good to see san juan county um back on one of our agendas again and the select committee updates i

[3:22:11] Voice 13: don't think there's much there i think there's um just ongoing um i haven't talked to um the chair

[3:22:19] Voice 13: of the committee recently about that but i think the interviews are almost concluded for the

[3:22:26] Voice 13: the trustees, the staff component hasn't occurred yet.

[3:22:30] Voice 13: And then LPS and administrative services.

[3:22:35] Voice 13: You're aware of what was going on from FPC yesterday in the audit committee.

[3:22:41] Voice 13: So depending on how things go, I think this could get compressed.

[3:22:46] Voice 13: But there is the opportunity to extend.

[3:22:49] Voice 13: I don't have anything for a closed session at this point.

[3:22:53] Voice 13: um and david do we know whether we're doing a bylaw enforcement update are we scheduled for that

[3:22:58] Voice 13: um i'm not sure um

[3:23:04] Voice 10: yes which i'll have to double check i can't remember i thought we did it three

[3:23:09] Voice 10: months ago we usually do it twice a year so i'll check last month last meeting and let you know

[3:23:13] Voice 10: today okay right

[3:23:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): so this is just an extra look at this right because we will see this on

[3:23:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): you

[3:23:19] Voice 13: will if something's really not good um uh good time to let us know so that we can um start

[3:23:27] Voice 13: to make some changes but uh you know that the i think the pivotal pieces um are offered in the

[3:23:33] Voice 13: in the appropriate spots right now at least okay

[3:23:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): uh vice chairs anything really missing here trusty

[3:23:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): rogers uh

[3:23:43] Trustee Rogers (probable): two brief comments one is i'll leave again the cao to talk about that about whether

[3:23:48] Trustee Rogers (probable): Any of the discussion related to the potential awarding of a contract and the direct award or the staffing scenario in TRS services should be in camera.

[3:24:04] Trustee Rogers (probable): I don't know.

[3:24:05] Trustee Rogers (probable): um and i just i'm conscious i'm just a little conscious of someone asking a question that

[3:24:14] Trustee Rogers (probable): should be perhaps not out of not in camera not out in public but i don't know the answer to that

[3:24:20] Trustee Rogers (probable): uh the second thing i wanted to raise and i raised it in an email is i'd like to find a spot

[3:24:27] Trustee Rogers (probable): um to do a uh sort of a a celebration of the um the Alcázar and Haussam biosphere

[3:24:37] Trustee Rogers (probable): it doesn't have to be long um I've unfortunately uh Ruth isn't available during the delegation

[3:24:44] Trustee Rogers (probable): state uh period of time she's also not available on the Thursday morning at where the Haussam

[3:24:51] Trustee Rogers (probable): Sound Forum. She does tell me, however, that she'll have a, that there should be a video slash

[3:24:59] Trustee Rogers (probable): thing that might be available. In fact, she was talking, Chair Luckham, about getting some quotes

[3:25:06] Trustee Rogers (probable): from you on camera to do something about that. Yeah, I think

[3:25:10] Voice 4: that opportunity has expired,

[3:25:11] Voice 4: according to Claire.

[3:25:14] Trustee Rogers (probable): What opportunity?

[3:25:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): My involvement in that video. I think it's

[3:25:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): complete oh

[3:25:21] Trustee Rogers (probable): okay because she wrote me yesterday and said that because she said they're going to

[3:25:26] Trustee Rogers (probable): do something anyway i wondered if we could put a placeholder somewhere and work uh where we might

[3:25:31] Trustee Rogers (probable): be able to presuming it's ready and it's just a clip that can be thrown uh where pete louise or

[3:25:38] Trustee Rogers (probable): sue ellen can introduce it and um and then show the video uh for everyone uh so where would you

[3:25:45] Trustee Rogers (probable): like that that's what we're gonna i mean ideally it would be sort of uh right after the break on

[3:25:53] Trustee Rogers (probable): the wednesday afternoon but it could be somewhere sue ellen might have a suggestion yeah i'm just

[3:26:01] Trustee Fast (probable): wondering if it could be in the trustee summary updates um thursday afternoon we've got house

[3:26:07] Trustee Fast (probable): community forum one of the line items there it's related it's not quite

[3:26:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): the same there's

[3:26:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): thursday morning not afternoon yeah

[3:26:15] Trustee Fast (probable): that's sorry that's what i mean well

[3:26:17] Trustee Rogers (probable): we could do it there uh

[3:26:18] Trustee Rogers (probable): if it's a video but ruth can't be there i was hoping she could come personally yeah anyway but

[3:26:25] Trustee Rogers (probable): so so presuming it's just a video we could do it at the end uh i just wondered whether it'd be nice

[3:26:31] Trustee Rogers (probable): to do it when there's a bigger audience so um it

[3:26:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): was so maybe you can see clarity on her

[3:26:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): availability for those time slots and we can make the decision next week so

[3:26:44] Voice 12: then uh we'd be looking

[3:26:46] Voice 12: tentatively here 2 30 and move everything else back a bit

[3:26:50] Voice 16: yep yeah we're really only talking

[3:26:53] Voice 16: 10 minutes not

[3:26:54] Voice 4: okay okay

[3:26:55] Voice 16: well

[3:26:56] Voice 4: then let's just say we'll do it there if that's going to be the

[3:27:00] Voice 4: best solution then okay anything else

[3:27:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): on this schedule okay

[3:27:11] Voice 4: so then uh we'll see this again

[3:27:13] Voice 4: next week.

[3:27:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): We've done the Trust Area Services thing so the next thing is we

[3:27:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): have received the confirmation of our request for a meeting with MER and

[3:27:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): unfortunately that's happening on the 8th and we'll need to recess our meeting

[3:27:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): for the 15 or 20 minutes that we have with the Minister and I guess CAO I'm

[3:27:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): just going to turn this over to you from an administrative perspective about

[3:27:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): but attendance and speaking points and stuff.

[3:27:43] Trustee Luckham (probable): The CAO and I did meet with Lisa Wilcox yesterday

[3:27:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): just to talk about what we're asking

[3:27:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): and what we want to say.

[3:27:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): And so we want to know the involvement,

[3:27:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): engagement of the advice chairs.

[3:27:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): Over to you, CAO.

[3:27:56] Voice 13: No, thanks very much.

[3:27:57] Voice 13: And I'd be pleased if Lisa wanted to join us

[3:28:00] Voice 13: for this conversation.

[3:28:03] Voice 13: Morning, Lisa.

[3:28:04] Voice 13: Afternoon, sorry.

[3:28:05] Voice 13: I hope you're well.

[3:28:07] Voice 13: um so yeah very happy that we've achieved this meeting i think it's very timely um we had i

[3:28:15] Voice 13: think a good conversation yesterday and lisa brought us to a good position where we have a

[3:28:22] Voice 13: couple of elements that we'd like to speak about with um the minister um the first is the policy

[3:28:28] Voice 13: statement um i'm assuming um that there would be uh you know it's going to be at two o'clock

[3:28:35] Voice 13: on the Wednesday so there'd be a recess of executive committee to contemplate that

[3:28:44] Voice 13: and there would be attendance by executive committee with the minister it's a new minister

[3:28:52] Voice 13: of course an introduction and a brief presentation of a reconciliation report

[3:28:59] Voice 13: report and to tell the minister about the policy statement process, weaving in the reconciliation

[3:29:05] Voice 13: reporting and our key themes and the ethics that we're bringing to this process and a request for

[3:29:13] Voice 13: support for our approach, which is, I think, important as we've established the principles

[3:29:21] Voice 13: that we're engaging with. Keep in mind, the minister may have received some letters over

[3:29:27] Voice 13: the last six weeks two months something like that so we would want to provide full context

[3:29:33] Voice 13: for what we're trying to do and the second key item would be discussing our cultural

[3:29:38] Voice 13: heritage projects and our project and our mapping project and requesting help in that area if

[3:29:47] Voice 13: possible. All of you know that we are continuously struggling with the limits of our ability to

[3:30:00] Voice 13: affect um the issuance of development permitting in other areas um we're in uh we're constantly

[3:30:06] Voice 13: working with arc branch and others and we've just got some vestigial challenges with our legislation

[3:30:11] Voice 13: that's um not having great results on the ground um and can affect our relationships and you know

[3:30:20] Voice 13: every year we have at least two or three of those so i think pointing that out to the minister would

[3:30:25] Voice 13: would be helpful um i think a good outcome um out of our conversation yesterday is um lisa you know

[3:30:33] Voice 13: that ministry's moving um and lisa needs a strong contact there at a fairly senior level

[3:30:38] Voice 13: that mimics the good relationships that she's developed with uh um some flimro operatives

[3:30:45] Voice 13: and potentially any ideas of closer partnerships um moving forward um we're always having the

[3:30:54] Voice 13: challenge of working with ArcBranch, MER and the Islands Trust. So those would be the key themes.

[3:31:04] Voice 13: Lisa do you have any, how close was I there?

[3:31:09] Voice 1: Yeah thanks so much that I really concur with

[3:31:12] Voice 1: all of the points that Russ made and I think as succinct we only have 20 minutes so I think the

[3:31:19] Voice 1: The items he's covered are perfectly matched with the goals that we'd like to get out of having this meeting with the new minister, and I concur with all those items that he mentioned.

[3:31:31] Voice 1: I

[3:31:32] Voice 13: got lucky. So to that end, Lisa's worked since last night and we have a briefing or Q&A, the backgrounder that we will provide to you and some speaking notes that would go along with those.

[3:31:51] Voice 13: I just haven't had a chance to go over them,

[3:31:53] Voice 13: but thanks Lisa for getting us that.

[3:31:55] Voice 13: And then we would put them over to executive committee

[3:31:57] Voice 13: for your consideration and amendment.

[3:31:59] Voice 13: We'd probably do that sooner and get it ready to you,

[3:32:06] Voice 13: get something to you say for Monday,

[3:32:07] Voice 13: a finished version for those notes.

[3:32:13] Voice 13: And then I guess the question would be over to you,

[3:32:15] Voice 13: Mr. Chair, how do you want to actually

[3:32:16] Voice 13: conduct the meeting itself?

[3:32:19] Voice 13: do you want to be the the sole presenter do you want words from other members of the committee

[3:32:27] Voice 13: or staff or anything like that sure

[3:32:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): thanks and so yeah to that end it's obviously a short period

[3:32:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): of time we want to open the discussion with wrapping around what we've been doing what our

[3:32:43] Trustee Luckham (probable): hopes and dreams are I guess and the asks about support from his office for a senior staff member

[3:32:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): to work with us as we advance this our mapping work and our reconciliation work and so wonder

[3:33:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): whether or not one all of you or one of you or more of you want to attend that particular session

[3:33:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): And whether or not you feel that there's anything that you would like to share or whether you want to listen and probably not the best solution would be to be unstructured and have you chime in where you thought it was necessary, because it maybe needs to be scripted to some extent.

[3:33:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): But just would like your feedback on what you see as your participation, because I certainly want to engage you where we can.

[3:33:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): Anybody?

[3:33:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): Trustee Fast.

[3:33:43] Trustee Fast (probable): I would sooner sit back. I'm not as close to most of these issues as many of you, and I wouldn't have a lot to say, but I'm happy to chime in if you think it would be useful.

[3:33:57] Voice 5: Okay. Laura?

[3:34:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): Oh, no, I think it's important we're all there. I know I got a lot out of the last time we met in person with Minister Fraser at the time, and I think it shows strong support.

[3:34:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yeah, no, I think time is going to go quickly. I want to make sure that we have the time to have dialogue because I think that's where we get the most rich out of there.

[3:34:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): and i think i think some of it could be dealt with with very short story you know not all of

[3:34:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): the examples but a couple of the of the of the examples that were particularly um feel are

[3:34:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): representative of the real strides that we've made by uh you know embracing reconciliation and

[3:34:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): bringing it into our uh into the projects um whether it's the freshwater round table or

[3:34:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): you know what or the you know the parallel stream for the policy statement but have

[3:34:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): one or two firm examples of of progress and just be clear that that's only just a couple

[3:35:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): okay

[3:35:00] Trustee Rogers (probable): dan um i certainly don't need to speak happy to be there i would i would suggest that it would

[3:35:09] Trustee Rogers (probable): It'd be good to have two voices speaking on behalf of the trust and not just one.

[3:35:22] Trustee Rogers (probable): And I don't know who the other person would be, whether the CAO or the SEPA or somebody else.

[3:35:30] Trustee Rogers (probable): else i i don't know i just i i sometimes feel that and i put that on me too is that if i'm doing all

[3:35:38] Trustee Rogers (probable): the talking in ltc you know it tends to um you know it's all it's often more effective to have

[3:35:45] Trustee Rogers (probable): another voice even if the message is the same so if you can think of a way of doing that that would

[3:35:51] Trustee Rogers (probable): be the only thing i would encourage yeah and

[3:35:53] Trustee Rogers (probable): say two one in addition to you sir yeah

[3:35:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): and i think

[3:35:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): there is contemplation that the cao at a minimum would uh help from an administrative perspective

[3:36:04] Trustee Luckham (probable): and and potentially lisa to provide some clarity around the work that we we are engaged in

[3:36:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): uh ceo and lisa do you want to chime in there well

[3:36:16] Voice 13: thank you for the opportunity um and uh you know

[3:36:20] Voice 13: um lisa and i'll put our heads together and figure out the best way forward um i uh just responding

[3:36:28] Voice 13: I do think dialogue is, you know, if we can get off of sort of just describing what we're doing, but also ask what they are doing and what he's excited about and whether or not any of our work is exciting to them and are they are they I'm assuming his

[3:36:51] Voice 13: mandate is to get UNDRIP working on the ground.

[3:36:54] Voice 13: is the islands trust a vehicle for that um in their view so um if that was one of the questions

[3:37:01] Voice 13: that might be a good way to see um where the minister's at yeah

[3:37:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): and you know one of the other

[3:37:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): elements here that is indeed part of the dialogue piece of it is and that has been expressed to us

[3:37:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): by that we have expressed to nations is that we need their help in order to advance this work

[3:37:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): and simultaneously with that we need the provinces help to work with us and work

[3:37:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): with nations to know that we're all have the same interests and concerns and so

[3:37:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): absolutely we want to hear from the minister and ideally his support in and

[3:37:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): with his staff and resources to help us with this with this work so yeah so

[3:37:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): those speaking notes will come forth and we'll maybe we'll just touch on it

[3:37:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): briefly before we go into the meeting as we would normally do um before we went into a meeting with

[3:37:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): the minister um uh on the wednesday okay yeah okay so if there's nothing further on that topic

[3:38:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): then um that uh wraps us up for today thank you for sticking with it and our next meeting is

[3:38:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): september the 8th we've said that a number of times i will be back in british columbia and i'm

[3:38:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): adjourn unless there's anything further to say today co hudson puller

[3:38:25] Voice 13: um we've got a lot to do

[3:38:28] Voice 13: between when this call ends and when you get stuff on your agenda and i think you all know that

[3:38:35] Voice 13: and so what is published 24 hours from now might not be everything that you will be getting

[3:38:45] Voice 13: for this document um we apologize for that but uh it is the way of the um issues that are in front

[3:38:54] Voice 13: of us and uh the team's working very um steadfast in their work and um we'll get those pieces to you

[3:39:03] Voice 13: as soon as we possibly can um but i just want to just create that mental room well

[3:39:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): thank you for

[3:39:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): that we understand these are incredibly busy times with so many important issues before us

[3:39:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): and want to thank all of you for that uh trusty fast um

[3:39:19] Trustee Fast (probable): laurie foster's just put in the note that

[3:39:21] Trustee Fast (probable): monday is a holiday so just to keep that in mind as well

[3:39:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): yeah you're right thank you okay so that's

[3:39:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): the way it's going to be folks

[3:39:31] Voice 12: claire you good

[3:39:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): yes

[3:39:34] Voice 2: i just wanted to share a last piece of happy

[3:39:36] Voice 2: news if i could yes um just i'm happy to let you know that jillian nichols will be coming back to

[3:39:41] Voice 2: to us around september 20th so um

[3:39:44] Voice 2: really pleased to have her back on the team and just got final

[3:39:47] Voice 2: confirmation so thought i'd share that with you

[3:39:49] Voice 5: that's good nice and

[3:39:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): ceo did you touch on the

[3:39:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): three hundred thousand dollars well

[3:39:58] Voice 13: that's good that's uh not my work that's david's work um uh

[3:40:02] Voice 13: i haven't touched on it and it will be part of the we'll report out to um trust council uh both

[3:40:09] Voice 13: with joy and with some expectations management associated with that but

[3:40:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): yeah um so thank you

[3:40:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): david uh did you have something to add uh

[3:40:19] Voice 10: not on that i just wanted to let you know that there

[3:40:22] Voice 10: will be an in-camera bylaw litigation report coming to council so we'll have that for the

[3:40:27] Voice 10: next agenda for you to consider and yeah i'll report out to you on the eighth a little bit

[3:40:33] Voice 10: more about the um the funding and what we need to do and also to council okay

[3:40:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): super so thanks

[3:40:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): everybody uh call for a motion to adjourn all those seconded all those in favor that carries

[3:40:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): that was moved by fast and seconded by rafters all those in favor that carries all right thanks

[3:40:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): everybody have a great uh afternoon thank

[3:40:55] Voice 12: you see you later thank you safe

[3:40:59] Trustee Rogers (probable): travel yeah thanks

Executive Committee Special Meeting Minutes  Page 1 of 3 
September 2, 2021 ADOPTED 
 
Executive Committee 
Minutes of Special Meeting 
 
Date: 
Location: 
September 2, 2021 
Electronic Zoom Meeting 
 
Members Present: Peter Luckham, Chair, Thetis Island Trustee 
 Dan Rogers, Vice Chair, Gambier/Keats Island Trustee 
 Laura Patrick, Vice Chair, Salt Spring Island Trustee 
 Sue Ellen Fast, Vice Chair, Bowen Island Municipal Trustee 
  
Staff Present: Russ Hotsenpiller, Chief Administrative Officer (CAO) 
 David Marlor, Director, Local Planning Services (DLPS) 
 Clare Frater, Director, Trust Area Services (DTAS) 
 Julia Mobbs, Director, Administrative Services (DAS) 
Lisa Wilcox, Senior Intergovernmental Policy Advisor (SIPA) 
 Lori Foster, Executive Coordinator/Recorder 
  
Members of the public: One member of the public was in attendance 
  
1. CALL TO ORDER 
 
At 9:02 a.m., Chair Luckham called the meeting to order and humbly stated gratitude to live and 
work on Coast Salish First Nations traditional and treaty territory. 
 
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 
 
2.1 Introduction of New Items 
 
For consideration to add under 6. New Business: 
6.1 Ministry of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation meeting discussion  
 
2.2 Approval of Agenda 
 
By general consent, the agenda was adopted as amended. 
 
2.2.1 Agenda Context Notes 
 
Presented for information. 
 
3. RISE AND REPORT DECISIONS FROM PREVIOUS CLOSED MEETING 
 
3.1 August 4, 2021 
 

 
Executive Committee Special Meeting Minutes  Page 2 of 3 
September 2, 2021 ADOPTED 
Chair Luckham reported from the August 4, 2021, Executive Committee (EC)  
closed meeting that the minutes of the July 21
st
 closed meeting were adopted as 
presented. 
 
4. ADOPTION OF MINUTES 
 
4.1 August 4, 2021 draft minutes 
 
By general consent, the August 4, 2021, minutes were adopted as presented. 
 
5. TRUST COUNCIL MEETING PREPARATION 
 
By general consent, Executive Committee (EC) addressed item 5.2 / 5.2.1 next. 
 
5.2 Trust Area Services 
 
5.2.1 Policy Statement Amendment Engagement Plan – Briefing 
 
CAO Hotsenpiller introduced the briefing which was circulated to Executive 
Committee as a late item. 
 
Molly Steeves, Project Manager with MODUS Planning, Design and Engagement 
presented a PowerPoint to EC outlining the Islands 2050 phase 3 engagement 
strategy. 
 
Discussion followed. 
 
The meeting recessed for a break at 10:40 a.m. and reconvened at 10:45 a.m. 
 
By general consent, the report will be brought back to the September 8
th
 
Executive Committee meeting for further consideration in forwarding to the 
September Trust Council meeting. 
 
Chair Luckham left the meeting at 11:40 a.m. and returned at 11:43 a.m. 
 
5.1 Executive 
 
5.1.1 Tree Cutting Authority Session outline and backgrounder – Briefing 
 
CAO Hotsenpiller introduced the session outline and backgrounder as presented 
in the agenda package.  He noted that the report will be brought back to the 
September 8
th
 EC meeting with references to cultural heritage. 
 
5.1.2 Amendments to Trust Council Policy 2.1.2 Standards of Conduct – RFD 
 
Legislative Services Manager (LSM) Thiel reviewed the request for decision as 
presented noting the addition of section 5 to the policy. 
 

 
Executive Committee Special Meeting Minutes  Page 3 of 3 
September 2, 2021 ADOPTED 
By general consent, Executive Committee requested that: 
 references to staff be removed from the policy,  
 that section 6, regarding filing of complaints be changed to three (3) 
months, from six (6) months, 
 in section 2.7., the word “avoid” be replaced with stronger language. 
 
5.1.3 September Trust Council draft schedule 
 
By general consent, include the session Atl'ka7tsem/Howe Sound Biosphere 
Region Initiative at 2:30 p.m. for a presentation announcing inclusion in the 
biosphere region. 
 
The draft schedule will be brought back to the September 8
th
 EC meeting for 
further consideration. 
 
6. NEW BUSINESS 
 
6.1 Ministry of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation meeting discussion 
 
Discussion followed on EC’s confirmed meeting, September 8
th
, with Minister Rankin 
during the Union of British Columbia Municipalities (UBCM) minister meeting session.  
Speaking notes will be provided. 
 
7. NEXT MEETING 
 
The next Executive Committee meeting is scheduled for September 8, 2021, 9:00 a.m., to be 
held electronically. 
 
8. ADJOURNMENT 
 
EC-2021-119 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
That the meeting be adjourned at 12:41 p.m. 
 
CARRIED 
 
_________________________ 
Peter Luckham, Chair 
 
Certified Correct 
 
_________________________ 
Lori Foster, Executive Coordinator/Recorder