Islands Trust Council regular meeting, September 13, 2021

[0:00:00] Trustee Middleton: from anyone but for trustee mcconkey i think everybody is there as far as i can see so thank

[0:00:06] Trustee Middleton: you for joining us um and um i'd just like to acknowledge that we're meeting today in from

[0:00:14] Trustee Middleton: various different locations around the salish sea in the traditional territory of the coast salish

[0:00:19] Trustee Middleton: people and we do so with thanks and and gratitude um the next item i'm looking for i think is

[0:00:28] Trustee Middleton: approval of the agenda so

[0:00:31] Voice 14: approved i move that's my move okay i'll

[0:00:36] Trustee Middleton: take that as by consent that

[0:00:38] Trustee Middleton: the agenda oh there is some just one second uh laurie added uh a late item that i didn't tend

[0:00:46] Trustee Middleton: to attend to in time last week there was some correspondence from a d corbin which has been

[0:00:51] Trustee Middleton: added to the uh um to this i believe it's been added to this it's on the agenda but um i um

[0:01:01] Trustee Middleton: I haven't seen if it's at the end of our agenda package or not,

[0:01:05] Trustee Middleton: but you would have all emailed directly.

[0:01:08] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, it is.

[0:01:09] Trustee Middleton: I've received it.

[0:01:11] Voice 2: I'll clarify.

[0:01:12] Voice 2: There's two pieces, if I may, Chair, from D. Corbin,

[0:01:15] Voice 2: one included here and one that was emailed to all of you,

[0:01:19] Voice 2: received as a late item.

[0:01:20] Trustee Middleton: Okay.

[0:01:22] Trustee Middleton: Great.

[0:01:23] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[0:01:23] Voice 2: Thanks very much

[0:01:24] Trustee Middleton: for handling that.

[0:01:30] Trustee Middleton: Okay.

[0:01:32] Trustee Middleton: Great.

[0:01:33] Trustee Middleton: Okay.

[0:01:33] Trustee Middleton: Well, thanks then.

[0:01:34] Trustee Middleton: Then we'll just move through some business items here.

[0:01:37] Trustee Middleton: There'll be adoption of the minutes from our July 12th meeting.

[0:01:47] Trustee Middleton: Any issues with just seeing if we've actually got it with me here?

[0:02:00] Trustee Middleton: Yeah.

[0:02:02] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, any comments or issues with those minutes from our last meeting?

[0:02:09] Trustee Middleton: No, they look good.

[0:02:11] Trustee Middleton: Okay.

[0:02:11] Trustee Middleton: I take it they're adopted by consent then?

[0:02:14] Trustee Middleton: Yep.

[0:02:17] Trustee Middleton: Okay, thank you. The resolutions without meeting was that we cancel the August the 9th, which

[0:02:34] Trustee Middleton: was our previously standing scheduled meeting that we really felt there was no need for

[0:02:38] Trustee Middleton: as that date approached in mid-summer and the consultants were well engaged with interviews

[0:02:44] Trustee Middleton: with trustees and the like so a motion was made to cancel which was which was

[0:02:48] Trustee Middleton: carried so that's on the under on the RWM log there for information the

[0:03:00] Trustee Middleton: follow-up action list is our next item so that that's there for in information

[0:03:11] Trustee Middleton: any any questions for our CEO or or staff on that on that list okay thank

[0:03:23] Trustee Middleton: Thank you for all your work there, Russell and Laurie.

[0:03:27] Trustee Middleton: That's great.

[0:03:28] Trustee Middleton: So moving through now, we are into our business items,

[0:03:34] Trustee Middleton: which is the core of the meeting here.

[0:03:36] Trustee Middleton: And so basically, as I just mentioned,

[0:03:40] Trustee Middleton: we're midway through or perhaps just past midway through the project

[0:03:48] Trustee Middleton: and the phase that we're currently in or the consultants are well into

[0:03:52] Trustee Middleton: to is interviewing trustees and other respondents or people of research interest in the trust area.

[0:04:01] Trustee Middleton: So that work is underway. So that's largely not been anything the committee has had a hand in

[0:04:07] Trustee Middleton: other than recommending interviewees in July. And so at this point, I think I'll just turn it over

[0:04:14] Trustee Middleton: to Mr. Kelly, Charles Kelly, to just continue. I'll let you convene this portion of the meeting.

[0:04:20] Trustee Middleton: i'm not sure if it's yourself who wishes to speak or one of the other team members but

[0:04:25] Trustee Middleton: over to you sir thank

[0:04:27] Voice 12: you lee and uh thank you select committee members um i think for this

[0:04:32] Voice 12: portion of the meeting i'm going to ask mf to do a summary of where we're at mf has participated in

[0:04:39] Voice 12: all of the interviews to date and i think she's going to give you a we'd like to give a report

[0:04:45] Voice 12: there and provide some kind of summary views of some of the things we learned throughout this

[0:04:51] Voice 12: exercise. So MF, I'll pass it off to you.

[0:04:55] Voice 10: Thanks, Charles. Can I just ask that we

[0:04:59] Voice 10: get the agenda off the screen so I can actually see the members of the committee

[0:05:03] Voice 10: while I'm speaking? Because otherwise, the way my set is configured, I can only see the person

[0:05:09] Voice 10: who's speaking thank you thank you uh yes um uh thanks for uh having us today and as charles has

[0:05:22] Voice 10: said i might add that jim and i have participated in all the discussions to date uh and um with

[0:05:31] Voice 10: trustees and um there are the two of us here who are happy to answer questions should you have any

[0:05:37] Voice 10: when I'm done. And we'll go on from there. So as of today, I had hoped to report that we had

[0:05:46] Voice 10: completed the interviews with all the 26 trustees. And they should have been completed by last

[0:05:52] Voice 10: Friday. But there were a few things outside of our control that happened, including

[0:05:57] Voice 10: fire department having to be deployed during the midst of one of our interviews. So as of today,

[0:06:03] Voice 10: we have two interviews left, and I think those will be completed by Friday. So of the 24 interviews

[0:06:13] Voice 10: that we've conducted, we started doing them on the 2nd of August. And as I said, the last two

[0:06:20] Voice 10: have been scheduled. Without exception, the conversations have lasted at least 90 minutes.

[0:06:26] Voice 10: And in some cases, they've gone over the 90 minutes. Taken together, I have to say that

[0:06:32] Voice 10: that the interviews have been invaluable

[0:06:34] Voice 10: in terms of our ability to understand

[0:06:37] Voice 10: how all of you as trustees view your role,

[0:06:40] Voice 10: what you identify as the strengths and weaknesses

[0:06:42] Voice 10: of the Islands Trust Governance Framework

[0:06:45] Voice 10: and the arrangements that give a practical application

[0:06:48] Voice 10: and meaning.

[0:06:50] Voice 10: The interviews of course have also provided us with insights

[0:06:53] Voice 10: as to what you as trustees think could be done

[0:06:56] Voice 10: to improve the way the trust is governed and managed.

[0:07:00] Voice 10: In every interview, trustees expressed support for the preserve and protect object of the trust as they understood it, and offered us nothing but constructive suggestions for change on how to improve the trust and the performance of council.

[0:07:18] Voice 10: So despite the fact that, as you know, we've used the same interview guide with each interviewee, asking everybody the identical questions, every interview is taken on its own quality and its own tone.

[0:07:31] Voice 10: which in some ways you would expect and in other ways is added to the richness for those of us who

[0:07:35] Voice 10: participate in all of them but it's noteworthy how many times the same themes or the same points

[0:07:40] Voice 10: come up and I'll get on to that in a moment so that you have a sense of what we're seeing

[0:07:46] Voice 10: at this point and your comments on how to course correct if we need to on some of this

[0:07:53] Voice 10: so even as I said as each interview was a discrete and unique event

[0:07:58] Voice 10: the interviews were connected one to another having a big cumulative impact on us who were

[0:08:05] Voice 10: conducting the interviews and as the process went along each new interview gave deeper meaning to

[0:08:11] Voice 10: comments made earlier in the interviews and more understanding and contributed to a single

[0:08:16] Voice 10: denser narrative of the work that you're doing and the work that you hope to be doing in future

[0:08:21] Voice 10: so it truly becomes a case where the results of what we're hearing is greater than the sum of

[0:08:27] Voice 10: the various parts and so this work continues and our next phase after we've completed discussions

[0:08:35] Voice 10: with all the trustees is to begin interviews with senior trust staff and with the good numbers of

[0:08:43] Voice 10: others who've had relevant experience with the trust or other organizations with comparable

[0:08:47] Voice 10: responsibilities because we're looking for benchmarks as well right so trustees have

[0:08:52] Voice 10: provided a good number of suggestions for other possible interviewees we'll not be able to

[0:08:57] Voice 10: interview them all because the list is very very long but we'll try to talk to as many as time

[0:09:02] Voice 10: permits with our focus always being on those who have actual knowledge of how the trust and trust

[0:09:11] Voice 10: council actually operates in fact we've already begun some of those conversations because taking

[0:09:17] Voice 10: advantage of work here in vancouver and on the margins of regular trips we've begun to talk to

[0:09:22] Voice 10: some people already so so far um the one thing that i'm disappointed by is the response from

[0:09:30] Voice 10: the bc government officials has been disappointing so it's not clear to me why this is the case given

[0:09:36] Voice 10: the fact that they're the parent organization and perhaps officials have been busy over the summer

[0:09:43] Voice 10: and um or maybe they've decided not to be involved in the process in any case we haven't given up

[0:09:50] Voice 10: and we'll continue to try to reach them and try to conduct discussions with them.

[0:09:58] Voice 10: So then let me get on some of the issues that have been raised. So first let me say a little

[0:10:03] Voice 10: bit about how we see this work and some of the questions that have come up. So a full examination

[0:10:11] Voice 10: of the governing parental legislation for the trust, the constituent act that rules what you do

[0:10:17] Voice 10: was ruled out in terms of reference for the review.

[0:10:22] Voice 10: However, it was suggested at the time

[0:10:24] Voice 10: that suggestions for improvement to the legislation

[0:10:26] Voice 10: insofar as they pertain to effective governance

[0:10:29] Voice 10: and management were deemed to be in scope.

[0:10:32] Voice 10: We will plan to make such suggestions

[0:10:34] Voice 10: because we're picking up commentary from people.

[0:10:38] Voice 10: When I say people, I mean trustees.

[0:10:42] Voice 10: Indeed, given the many comments of trustees on this subject,

[0:10:45] Voice 10: we really do feel duty-bound to say something about it.

[0:10:49] Voice 10: And it's not a surprise to us that meaningful steps to keep the trust modern and relevant

[0:10:54] Voice 10: could require some changes to the governing legislation,

[0:10:57] Voice 10: because many of the important provisions have not changed in those many years.

[0:11:04] Voice 10: Another area outside the review's purview is the operation of the Islands Trust Conservancy.

[0:11:11] Voice 10: The Conservancy has also been a frequent topic of conversation during our interviews with trustees.

[0:11:16] Voice 10: In particular, touching on the possibilities of greater partnerships and synergy with the Trust to support the Preserve and Protect mandate.

[0:11:28] Voice 10: And we'll examine that a little bit more as we go into our conversations with senior staff as well.

[0:11:38] Voice 10: Reconciliation, figured prominently in the review's mandate, is an area for examination.

[0:11:42] Voice 10: discrimination, we have not found it easy to gain an understanding of specific plans and

[0:11:47] Voice 10: initiatives in this area. This seems to be shared by many of the trustees, all of whom, and I have

[0:11:54] Voice 10: to emphasize this, support taking action on reconciliation, but a great number of whom are

[0:12:01] Voice 10: uncertain as to what that means in the context of the trust. What the trust role should be in a

[0:12:06] Voice 10: in a wider province wide,

[0:12:08] Voice 10: indeed a national reconciliation movement

[0:12:11] Voice 10: remains unclear to many trustees

[0:12:13] Voice 10: who all want to champion this cause.

[0:12:16] Voice 10: So we'll have a closer look at this area.

[0:12:18] Voice 10: And as I said, more discussion with the staff

[0:12:21] Voice 10: in the coming weeks.

[0:12:25] Voice 10: Then to the trust policy statement,

[0:12:29] Voice 10: while itself is not outside the terms of reference

[0:12:31] Voice 10: for the review, although the current

[0:12:33] Voice 10: and ongoing process of amending it is,

[0:12:35] Voice 10: We're not going to offer up opinions on that.

[0:12:39] Voice 10: Again, trustees have very much to say

[0:12:42] Voice 10: about the policy statement,

[0:12:44] Voice 10: given its central role and importance

[0:12:46] Voice 10: and the governance of the trust.

[0:12:49] Voice 10: So the comments made by trustees have been important

[0:12:52] Voice 10: and useful as possible measures to improve trust governance.

[0:12:57] Voice 10: Inevitably, the interviews have identified anomalies,

[0:13:01] Voice 10: contradictions and challenges that are inherent

[0:13:04] Voice 10: inherent in the island's trust governance framework and operations. We're not surprised

[0:13:09] Voice 10: by this. It's almost as it should be. We'd be very surprised if we hadn't found that.

[0:13:15] Voice 10: It could hardly be otherwise, given the many game-changing developments affecting the trust

[0:13:21] Voice 10: and the relatively few significant changes that have been made to the trust itself over the many

[0:13:26] Voice 10: years. Trustees have described many of these issues in clear everyday language based on their

[0:13:33] Voice 10: their firsthand experience.

[0:13:34] Voice 10: So to give you an example of what I'm talking about,

[0:13:36] Voice 10: they include the lack of proportionality

[0:13:40] Voice 10: between population and council representation,

[0:13:42] Voice 10: a hot subject, hotter in some of the islands

[0:13:46] Voice 10: that you already know.

[0:13:49] Voice 10: Many have commented on the unwieldy size of council.

[0:13:55] Voice 10: Others have commented, well, most others,

[0:13:58] Voice 10: most I have to say, the vast majority,

[0:14:01] Voice 10: have commented on the process for the election

[0:14:03] Voice 10: of the executive committee.

[0:14:07] Voice 10: Well, every trustee states that they perfectly understand

[0:14:11] Voice 10: the preserve and protect mandate.

[0:14:14] Voice 10: Virtually all trustees have highlighted

[0:14:16] Voice 10: the lack of agreement amongst trustees

[0:14:18] Voice 10: as to a global understanding of preserve and protect

[0:14:22] Voice 10: and the impediments this is having on effective governance.

[0:14:28] Voice 10: Another one of the themes that I would highlight

[0:14:30] Voice 10: is the difficulties of reconciling

[0:14:33] Voice 10: what's happening at the local committees

[0:14:36] Voice 10: and the trust-wide roles of trustees.

[0:14:41] Voice 10: And maybe the last one I'll highlight in this context

[0:14:44] Voice 10: is the relationship with the provincial government,

[0:14:49] Voice 10: including the lack of direction on priorities

[0:14:52] Voice 10: and the lack of collaboration in areas of provincial jurisdiction

[0:14:55] Voice 10: and shared interest.

[0:14:57] Voice 10: And of course, very few people did not comment

[0:15:00] Voice 10: on the lack of provincial financial support to an agency charged uniquely with acting in the

[0:15:06] Voice 10: interest of all British Columbians in the trust area. So if that gives you a flavor then these

[0:15:14] Voice 10: challenges contribute to but aren't the only reason why a great many trustees feel the trust

[0:15:20] Voice 10: council is not functioning as effectively as it could. They speak of decline in civility

[0:15:29] Voice 10: some attributing this to zoom and some attributing it to the well to zoom and the notion that you

[0:15:35] Voice 10: have not been able to get together and have face-to-face discussions where you would sort

[0:15:39] Voice 10: these things in a different way um but some also contribute uh suggesting that this is because

[0:15:46] Voice 10: there are very strong uh differing opinions on council as to how to proceed in some areas

[0:15:54] Voice 10: so a sense of questioning the established order or a prevailing view is sometimes unfairly seen

[0:16:03] Voice 10: as undermining the trust itself has led to a lack of real deliberation and examination of

[0:16:10] Voice 10: important issues with the proceedings of council taken up by lengthy reports backed by even

[0:16:16] Voice 10: lengthier documentation and sometimes and i have to say it's a majority who have said this so i'm

[0:16:23] Voice 10: I'm reporting it back to you,

[0:16:25] Voice 10: stifled by rules of order that inhibit

[0:16:27] Voice 10: rather than facilitate dialogue and debate.

[0:16:29] Voice 10: Now, how much of that is due to the format now

[0:16:32] Voice 10: of having that conduct these meetings on Zoom,

[0:16:36] Voice 10: which makes it for a very difficult way to moderate

[0:16:40] Voice 10: and lead to the kinds of discussions

[0:16:43] Voice 10: that may be held differently in person,

[0:16:45] Voice 10: but I'll leave that with you as well.

[0:16:49] Voice 10: Many trustees also comment on and feel

[0:16:53] Voice 10: that council does not have the tools and metrics needed to assess overall performance

[0:16:57] Voice 10: or the necessary mechanisms to ensure accountability. Objectives and strategies

[0:17:04] Voice 10: with measurable impacts could be worked at more diligently. Trustees generally place greater value

[0:17:13] Voice 10: on and greater satisfaction from something I've already mentioned, their role on local trust

[0:17:19] Voice 10: committees than they do on their role on trust council the notion that government works best

[0:17:27] Voice 10: at its most local level is validated by many of the interviews that we've had because what we've

[0:17:34] Voice 10: heard again and again and again is a relatively smooth functioning of the local committees

[0:17:38] Voice 10: that said considerable frustration is also expressed concerning lengthy time land use

[0:17:46] Voice 10: applications take to be processed and the difficulty in getting local priority projects

[0:17:52] Voice 10: underway and completed in less than a three or four year cycle again some of this to yet be

[0:17:58] Voice 10: validated by some of our staff interviews clearly most trustees do feel that they are struggling

[0:18:07] Voice 10: with the governance framework and arrangements that are no longer fit for purpose and after the

[0:18:12] Voice 10: the many years the trust council has been around or the items trust has been around

[0:18:17] Voice 10: such fundamental and dramatic changes in the world in which the trust must operate and manage

[0:18:23] Voice 10: any other outcome i think in terms of the interviews is probably unlikely this frustration

[0:18:28] Voice 10: is felt and it may be warranted by the structures in which you're forced to live and have these

[0:18:36] Voice 10: conversations um what is discernible from the interviews is the consequent rise of two

[0:18:43] Voice 10: prevailing views about the future of the islands trust um and i would describe those this way

[0:18:51] Voice 10: there's those who favor an approach where the trust council does the best possible within the

[0:18:58] Voice 10: existing constraints keeping largely to establish procedures and practices but mindful of the need

[0:19:05] Voice 10: to accommodate new realities whenever and however possible and that's a strong strain that's coming

[0:19:11] Voice 10: throughout these conversations and the other view pressing for more fundamental institutional change

[0:19:18] Voice 10: that rethinks how a special purpose agency of the government of british columbia can deliver on the

[0:19:24] Voice 10: preserve and protect mandate all were very um supportive of the preserve and protect mandate

[0:19:31] Voice 10: mandate. And to a person, everybody wants this to work better. So there may be value

[0:19:41] Voice 10: in both approaches. Institutional change, however desirable, can only be realized with

[0:19:48] Voice 10: partnership, indeed the leadership of the provincial government. The process of getting

[0:19:53] Voice 10: there will take some time and we can't gauge what to say about that yet, the province's

[0:19:59] Voice 10: interests we will redouble our efforts to engage with officials and it would really be too bad in

[0:20:04] Voice 10: this process if we didn't because so much uh uh will depend on their willingness um to um

[0:20:15] Voice 10: move forward with some change but meanwhile uh whether they do or they don't there still may

[0:20:22] Voice 10: be significant steps that can be taken within the existing framework that work towards a new

[0:20:27] Voice 10: approach that is more responsive to changing circumstances of the trust area and that gives

[0:20:32] Voice 10: trustees more significant and leading role in trust area affairs and we'll be exploring both

[0:20:38] Voice 10: of these paths and any others that are proposed to us over the next period of time so i'll ask

[0:20:45] Voice 10: my colleague jim if he has anything else to add since as i said he's participated in all the

[0:20:49] Voice 10: interviews uh charles if you have anything else to add maybe you can do it after that

[0:20:54] Voice 10: and at least that gives you a picture of the kinds of things we've now heard from 24 trustees

[0:21:00] Voice 10: and as i said we'll beginning uh we'll be beginning uh serious interviews with senior staff

[0:21:06] Voice 10: over the next period of time and then um we'll continue to move forward and engaging as many

[0:21:12] Voice 10: as possible from the list that trustees have provided us so i'll stop there i won't add

[0:21:19] Voice 5: and much at all.

[0:21:20] Voice 5: I think that was a good summary of what we heard

[0:21:23] Voice 5: or some of the things that we heard.

[0:21:27] Voice 5: I can say though, is how impressed I was

[0:21:32] Voice 5: by the quality of the conversations

[0:21:33] Voice 5: and the individuals we engaged with,

[0:21:37] Voice 5: both in terms of their responsiveness

[0:21:40] Voice 5: and in terms of their insight and ability to make rational

[0:21:45] Trustee Middleton: and

[0:21:46] Voice 5: reasonable arguments for whatever position they held.

[0:21:49] Voice 5: it was uh they're cogent and and straightforward so i think we've got very good material to work

[0:21:56] Voice 5: with and we'll move forward from here it's in a way we haven't we've just we've just begun

[0:22:03] Voice 5: where we've we've ended the beginning or something like that but there's more to be done

[0:22:07] Voice 5: we'll be interested in in hearing what senior staff say senior staff we've talked to already

[0:22:13] Voice 5: many of them related to what they do and how they do it.

[0:22:18] Voice 5: But we'd like to hear what they think about how,

[0:22:21] Voice 5: because they have experience and another perspective

[0:22:24] Voice 5: of how they think the trust structures

[0:22:27] Voice 5: and governance systems work

[0:22:28] Voice 5: and what could be changed or improved.

[0:22:31] Voice 5: And also what their take is on the council itself.

[0:22:37] Voice 5: So we're moving ahead, it's going well, I think.

[0:22:40] Voice 5: Yeah,

[0:22:45] Voice 12: I am. Well, thank you, Jim and MF. I just want to make one brief comment on, I participated in some of the interviews, particularly with some of the councillors that had voted against the governance initiative, the governance review.

[0:23:01] Voice 12: view. And they were very straightforward at the beginning of these interviews, many of them

[0:23:06] Voice 12: saying, I didn't think this was a good idea. And they explained why. But I think the nature of the

[0:23:13] Voice 12: questions in the questionnaire, and they started to talk, and they had a lot to share. And I think

[0:23:19] Voice 12: every one of them at the end of the process thanked us for the interview and for the opportunity to

[0:23:24] Voice 12: express themselves. So I think that wherever you came from initially at the beginning of the

[0:23:30] Voice 12: process, you know, by

[0:23:32] Voice 12: an hour and a half or more, you know, you

[0:23:34] Voice 12: felt you were treated in a fair,

[0:23:36] Voice 12: direct way. And I think they thoroughly enjoyed the experience. So, you know, I think that in

[0:23:43] Voice 12: itself, you know, may have some longer term benefits for the ongoing work of the council

[0:23:48] Voice 12: that they've had this opportunity to take the time to fully express themselves on many of their

[0:23:54] Voice 12: concerns. So with that, I think that sort of summarizes our presentation and we're open to

[0:23:59] Voice 12: questions thank you that's

[0:24:01] Voice 14: really good to hear thank

[0:24:05] Trustee Middleton: you charles and thanks for the invitation

[0:24:07] Trustee Middleton: to questions so uh if you could use your raise hand function in the the zoom control panel that

[0:24:14] Trustee Middleton: would be appreciated and uh i see trusted kale has his hand up

[0:24:18] Voice 8: yes if i could address our consultants

[0:24:21] Voice 8: uh charles and uh mf um basically as a trustee what i was accorded and and with james there as

[0:24:29] Voice 8: as well, was the an hour and a half with you and it was made very clear that we were meeting face

[0:24:36] Voice 8: to face as far as Zoom would allow and it was a confidential meeting. It was myself in the room

[0:24:42] Voice 8: for me and all of you. Now my question is when you meet with senior trust staff, are the senior

[0:24:51] Voice 8: senior trust staff meeting with you under the same conditions? That's my question. Are they

[0:24:59] Voice 8: They accorded privacy and confidentiality and a chance to speak to you on their own.

[0:25:08] Voice 10: That's the way the meetings are being set up, and we have no reason to believe that they'll occur differently.

[0:25:13] Voice 10: We have had, as Jim said earlier, lots of opportunities to speak to senior staff by way of getting briefed

[0:25:20] Voice 10: and by way of making sure we understand how things function and by way of getting more in-depth information

[0:25:26] Voice 10: information and also by way of identifying and extracting documentation that would be useful to

[0:25:31] Voice 10: us that we did in a group setting in many cases uh but the interviews are to be conducted under

[0:25:37] Voice 10: the same rules thank

[0:25:39] Voice 8: you very much and i'm delighted to hear it

[0:25:43] Trustee Middleton: thank you uh trustee right

[0:25:46] Trustee Middleton: please yeah

[0:25:48] Voice 14: i'm i was just wondering uh you mentioned that you're looking for information

[0:25:51] Voice 14: from trust and background reports, all that stuff.

[0:25:57] Voice 14: I'm just wanting to confirm that you've got everything

[0:26:00] Voice 14: you need to continue on with the interviews.

[0:26:05] Voice 10: I would say yes.

[0:26:07] Voice 10: The one area that we will have to probe more deeply

[0:26:10] Voice 10: with staff on is the area of reconciliation.

[0:26:13] Voice 10: And we understand

[0:26:14] Voice 10: from their perspective,

[0:26:15] Voice 10: why that area is treated more confidentially

[0:26:21] Voice 10: from their perspective but there are so many questions that have come up that we will have

[0:26:24] Voice 10: further discussions with them in terms of briefings in that area in addition to the

[0:26:29] Voice 10: interviews that we'll be conducting okay

[0:26:32] Voice 5: just to add to ms comment there are a few other areas

[0:26:38] Voice 5: where there's reason for follow-up with staff to complete the line of inquiry that trustees

[0:26:46] Voice 5: have raised on certain issues.

[0:26:47] Voice 5: I have no reason to think that that can't be facilitated

[0:26:51] Voice 5: given the conversations we've had to date,

[0:26:53] Voice 5: our understanding of who the staff people are

[0:26:55] Voice 5: and their willingness thus far to be straightforward

[0:27:00] Voice 5: and clear about the information they provide us.

[0:27:02] Voice 5: But we will do some discrete follow up on certain questions

[0:27:06] Voice 5: just to make sure we got the facts right.

[0:27:12] Trustee Middleton: Thank you and Trustee Critchley please.

[0:27:17] Trustee Critchley: Thank you very much.

[0:27:18] Trustee Critchley: Thank you for the report.

[0:27:19] Trustee Critchley: I very much appreciate your work. I have a question about the, I'll call the extra

[0:27:27] Trustee Critchley: interviews beyond trustees and staff. The last time we met, I believe we thought that there would

[0:27:34] Trustee Critchley: be space for approximately 17 people. And that of course isn't a firm number, but I'm wondering if

[0:27:41] Trustee Critchley: that, if anything has changed or that looks like sort of the order of magnitude of additional

[0:27:47] Trustee Critchley: additional people that you anticipate interviewing, and also secondarily, whether you got

[0:27:56] Trustee Critchley: good enough information from people who were submitting the suggestions that you can make

[0:28:03] Trustee Critchley: good choices, or whether you require any further information on the extra people to interview.

[0:28:11] Trustee Critchley: you um

[0:28:12] Voice 10: so thank you to everybody who submitted names uh virtually well i think all virtually

[0:28:18] Voice 10: all trustees submitted additional names i would say and and and we've we've asked in all cases

[0:28:25] Voice 10: the relationship of those people to the trust and to knowledge because what we're looking for is you

[0:28:30] Voice 10: know knowledgeable uh folks um so we have a longer list than we can uh deal with um i my sense is

[0:28:40] Voice 10: it'll be by the end of the day it'll be more than 17 but we haven't figured out how to accommodate

[0:28:45] Voice 10: that and why do i say that because i want to make sure that in the process of conducting the

[0:28:50] Voice 10: interviews we're not skewing the interviews in any direction possible but have the full spectrum of

[0:28:56] Voice 10: voices and opinions knowledgeable voices and opinions that are out there um so my sense is

[0:29:03] Voice 10: now it'll probably be more than 17 and we'll be careful with how many more we do because you know

[0:29:08] Voice 10: it's time and money but we want to make sure that we've left no stone unturned in that process

[0:29:13] Voice 10: because we don't want people coming back at you either and saying well if i'd have known i would

[0:29:18] Voice 10: have told them this that or the other right um so how we're going to do that exactly we're not sure

[0:29:23] Voice 10: yet but we'll we'll try to do that the one area where again because of the nature of how

[0:29:29] Voice 10: reconciliation is managed uh we have had a few counselors give us names of first nation

[0:29:36] Voice 10: representatives um but i'm not sure how we're going to manage that yet because it was almost

[0:29:47] Voice 10: like uh well maybe i can find you someone who will speak to you about this and again we'll

[0:29:55] Voice 10: we'll have some discussions with senior staff on that front to make sure that

[0:30:01] Voice 10: We're speaking to people who are representative and who've been engaged in the discussions that the Islands Trust has already conducted.

[0:30:08] Voice 10: So that's the one area where, personally, I would have knowledge of a lot of these folks.

[0:30:15] Voice 10: But I want to make sure that before we reach out to them, we've talked to the Islands Trust staff on those fronts.

[0:30:23] Voice 10: But otherwise, yes, thank you.

[0:30:24] Voice 10: We have lots of names.

[0:30:26] Voice 10: we could easily interview probably 200 people without an exaggeration even though people have

[0:30:33] Voice 10: been careful as to how many names they've given us and we won't interview 200 it's just not

[0:30:38] Voice 10: possible but yeah thank

[0:30:41] Trustee Middleton: you um and uh council chair luckham is next with his hand up please

[0:30:46] Trustee Middleton: thank

[0:30:50] Trustee Luckham: you um just on this topic of the other uh interviewees um it's

[0:30:57] Trustee Luckham: It's reasonable for us to know who, of course, all the trustees are interviewed and who the

[0:31:06] Trustee Luckham: senior staff are that are interviewed and whether or not it becomes public information

[0:31:11] Trustee Luckham: or not, but will an actual list of those other persons that you have interviewed be made

[0:31:17] Trustee Luckham: available to us?

[0:31:18] Trustee Luckham: Obviously, you wouldn't make available the remarks and comments that they make, but is

[0:31:23] Trustee Luckham: Is there participation in this in some way restricted

[0:31:29] Trustee Luckham: for our understanding of the spectrum

[0:31:32] Trustee Luckham: of individuals interviewed?

[0:31:36] Voice 10: My short answer is probably not.

[0:31:39] Voice 10: What we might do at this stage is share

[0:31:43] Voice 10: with all the members of the select committee

[0:31:45] Voice 10: the recommendation that has been made to us

[0:31:48] Voice 10: so that you see the scope and breadth.

[0:31:50] Voice 10: and then if you think that there are representative groups or points of view that are missing you might

[0:31:58] Voice 10: want to add some names uh and then we can have a conversation about what to do with that um yeah

[0:32:08] Voice 10: um i i don't i have to say that i don't think that any other interview that we conduct will

[0:32:16] Voice 10: have the same except maybe with the province uh will have the same impact as the interviews we've

[0:32:22] Voice 10: conducted with trustees and will conduct with senior staff. You are the most knowledgeable,

[0:32:29] Voice 10: you are those that are directly engaged in the governance game on a daily basis

[0:32:34] Voice 10: and in some measure you kind of have to be there to understand it. It's one of the comments that

[0:32:41] Voice 10: we receive from even many of the trustees that it's not till their second or third term that

[0:32:46] Voice 10: they actually get how it all works. So we're not just going to take random views and opinions from

[0:32:54] Voice 10: anybody out there who wants to offer them. And as I think may be known to many of you,

[0:33:02] Voice 10: when we started to be engaged in this, of course, there are many people that wanted to issue press

[0:33:08] Voice 10: releases and let us out there talking to large representation in various communities. And we've

[0:33:14] Voice 10: We've resisted all that because that's not what this exercise is about.

[0:33:19] Voice 10: We're bringing expert eyes to the whole issue of governance and management and that's the

[0:33:24] Voice 10: way we want to kind of address it.

[0:33:27] Voice 10: So we can send you a list of all of those that have been recommended to us so far.

[0:33:35] Voice 10: I think we'll look to add to it at a minimum once we've talked to staff again about reconciliation

[0:33:41] Voice 10: reconciliation from First Nations. And then I don't think we should have one set of rules for

[0:33:48] Voice 10: First Nations and one for everybody else. So maybe if those conversations are held in confidence,

[0:33:55] Voice 10: then all of them should be held the same way. I don't know. I think that's something that we

[0:33:59] Voice 10: we'd have a look at for you and either come back with our own advice to you,

[0:34:03] Voice 10: or you might want to give us some views today.

[0:34:09] Trustee Luckham: Sure. So, Chair Middleton, if I might just have

[0:34:11] Trustee Luckham: of a follow-up?

[0:34:13] Trustee Middleton: Of course, yes.

[0:34:16] Trustee Luckham: So, I guess I will hold off any further comments until

[0:34:23] Trustee Luckham: later, but it seems to me that if you provide the entire list and we're asked to potentially

[0:34:33] Trustee Luckham: identify groups that may be missing from that, obviously, if you interview a subset of that,

[0:34:39] Trustee Luckham: there's no way for us to know whether or not a significant subgroup has been missed in the

[0:34:44] Trustee Luckham: in the selection process so uh that's

[0:34:49] Voice 10: a good point

[0:34:50] Trustee Luckham: that's

[0:34:51] Voice 10: a good point we may classify names

[0:34:53] Voice 10: as to how they were expressed to us why they would be considered to be expert advice on some

[0:34:59] Voice 10: of these areas we could do that for you and then you could have a look at i

[0:35:04] Voice 12: think it's also

[0:35:04] Voice 12: also important to clarify here that, you know, we're not looking at any particular interest

[0:35:09] Voice 12: groups. We're not policy oriented in this, we're governance oriented. So we're only really looking

[0:35:15] Voice 12: at and want to talk to people that have either some demonstrated expertise in governance and

[0:35:21] Voice 12: some demonstrated experience, you know, either formally with the trust or that they've, you know,

[0:35:28] Voice 12: they've demonstrated that they've thought hard and long about these issues to make them so that

[0:35:32] Voice 12: that they're adding something of value.

[0:35:33] Voice 12: We have no interest in making sure one side of another

[0:35:38] Voice 12: with respect to any particular interest groups

[0:35:41] Voice 12: that are out there with respect to the things the trusts do.

[0:35:44] Voice 12: I want to make that really, really clear.

[0:35:47] Voice 5: The other point I would add just is that at a certain point,

[0:35:50] Voice 5: the people you want to interview with depend upon where you're going

[0:35:55] Voice 5: and where your thought process is at that point.

[0:35:59] Voice 5: If you're trying to explore the feasibility of something

[0:36:01] Voice 5: that you want someone with expertise in that so some of the we've had for example suggestions of

[0:36:08] Voice 5: interviewing previous council members uh trustees uh and uh chairs and some of those seem very

[0:36:18] Voice 5: interesting because of their experience on council and because of their experience with the trust

[0:36:22] Voice 5: we had suggestions about bowman as well which also seems kind of interesting given the relationship

[0:36:29] Voice 5: that's there and the value of a possible comparator in some broad ways.

[0:36:35] Voice 5: So those things are evident now.

[0:36:38] Voice 5: Other areas will become evident later, and then you start mining your list to see, all

[0:36:42] Voice 5: right, who knows something about that that would be helpful to us?

[0:36:46] Voice 5: So in many ways, we don't know now who we would even be interviewing.

[0:36:53] Trustee Middleton: Thank you for that.

[0:36:55] Trustee Middleton: And CEO Hudson-Pedro, please.

[0:36:58] Trustee Middleton: Thank you very much.

[0:36:59] Trustee Middleton: I

[0:37:00] Voice 6: can I'll just briefly speak on two items the first is MF's note that she's having trouble with

[0:37:06] Voice 6: some of the government official portions of the interview spectrum I can probably help there I

[0:37:16] Voice 6: I put forward a list and was anticipating that you would confirm those you'd be interested in

[0:37:22] Voice 6: and then I can open through conversation some of those doors I know at least in a couple instances

[0:37:27] Voice 6: They're just not aware of the firm or the project, but I'm happy to do that.

[0:37:35] Voice 6: I think there are some on that list and your list might be bigger than that.

[0:37:38] Voice 6: Your experience might lead you to having others than the eight or nine that I put forward.

[0:37:43] Voice 6: So I've spoken to Charles about that a couple of times and I can certainly do that to help

[0:37:49] Voice 6: unlock some of those if you wish.

[0:37:51] Voice 6: Russ,

[0:37:51] Voice 10: to date, we've contacted the ADM at your, I'll say your mother department.

[0:37:58] Voice 10: And her office had proposed, because she was away for most of the summer, at having us speak to a collective grouping.

[0:38:06] Voice 10: I think they were on your list, most of them, as a

[0:38:10] Voice 10: group, which I don't have a problem with.

[0:38:12] Voice 10: I mean, any of the above will do, but they've dropped off the face of the earth since then in terms of scheduling a time.

[0:38:19] Voice 6: yeah and you might want to we might want to fight for the ADM too um but that'll be yeah I'm just

[0:38:24] Voice 10: I'm just

[0:38:24] Voice 6: offering just offering to see if I can um help out in that area um

[0:38:29] Voice 10: we'll let you know who

[0:38:30] Voice 10: we we'll let you know it was the ADM's office that we contacted and all of

[0:38:34] Voice 10: our discussions have only

[0:38:35] Voice 10: been with her office okay and

[0:38:37] Voice 10: it was her office that was going to facilitate us a series um you

[0:38:41] Voice 10: know sort of group discussion which i'm okay with as i said um

[0:38:45] Voice 10: and uh and it was i think that group

[0:38:49] Voice 10: was going to be led by uh lorraine i think it was their person responsible for governance and they

[0:38:54] Voice 10: were going to bring the other people in on it so i think those are all names that were on your

[0:38:58] Voice 10: original list good i'm just gobsmacked that radio silence on that front so i'm just going to assume

[0:39:04] Voice 10: that it's some benign form of uh we're not as important as something else they're working on

[0:39:12] Voice 10: because we have to hear from them right

[0:39:15] Voice 6: that may be true but uh yeah so my second thought is yeah

[0:39:24] Voice 6: i think uh really appreciating the conversation on reconciliation it is not an easy one um i expect

[0:39:30] Voice 6: more conversation here um from an exterior point of view you know um it might be you know here's

[0:39:37] Voice 6: a number talk to this person but really if we look across the 30 nations um over the last two

[0:39:44] Voice 6: and a half years our deepest connection might be with the second planner um in a given organization

[0:39:49] Voice 6: and it's through that person that we're starting to have communications with a band on a given

[0:39:54] Voice 6: issue that's important to them um well

[0:39:58] Voice 10: that's fine i mean

[0:39:59] Voice 6: we'll take it

[0:39:59] Voice 10: however yeah yeah yeah

[0:40:01] Voice 6: But we just haven't had the conversation around that nuance. And

[0:40:05] Voice 6: indeed, getting to the governance level for many of these nations is going to be a challenge for us. You know, the chair could do it, potentially, or as I've heard, some of the trustees may be opening those doors.

[0:40:18] Voice 6: But and whether or not those people really are expressive of, you know, can they be considered to be expressive of the perspective of First Nations reconciliation across the board through two or three interviews around three years of work in 30 nations.

[0:40:34] Voice 6: It's just awe-inspiringly massive to be reductive associated with it.

[0:40:41] Voice 6: So, you know, how that's done is going to be for sure a challenge associated with the process and we'll engage in conversations with you to make it as best as possible.

[0:40:50] Voice 6: Yeah.

[0:40:50] Voice 10: And by the way, we can also report that in areas where there are existing relationships or relationships that have been renewed and refreshed at the local level, from what we've heard from trustees, those relationships are being renewed, are being fortified.

[0:41:14] Voice 10: there's engagement happening not across all all the uh from the trustees but in areas where

[0:41:20] Voice 10: there are significant populations uh people are working hard to try to engage at that level

[0:41:26] Voice 10: but so that's a good thing it

[0:41:31] Voice 6: is yeah anyway

[0:41:32] Voice 6: thanks mr chair thank

[0:41:36] Trustee Middleton: you ceo um trustee morrison

[0:41:39] Trustee Middleton: has her hand up please uh go ahead thank you thank

[0:41:43] Trustee Morrison: you so a couple a couple comments and questions

[0:41:46] Trustee Morrison: um so one of the first questions i had was about you mentioned that the election of the executive

[0:41:54] Trustee Morrison: committee came up multiple times across all many if not all of the trustees and i'm wondering given

[0:42:02] Trustee Morrison: the timeline of the report um that we're looking out towards march um trust council if there would

[0:42:09] Trustee Morrison: would be actionable items in the March Trust Council

[0:42:14] Trustee Morrison: to take action on that for internal policies

[0:42:17] Trustee Morrison: related to the elections,

[0:42:18] Trustee Morrison: given that our next cycle of elections

[0:42:20] Trustee Morrison: would be in October, November.

[0:42:23] Trustee Morrison: So just, I don't know if that's possible.

[0:42:26] Trustee Morrison: So that's my first question.

[0:42:30] Voice 10: Is that a question more for staff than it is for us?

[0:42:33] Voice 10: Because we could make recommendations,

[0:42:35] Voice 10: but then it's gonna, the actionable nature of them

[0:42:38] Voice 10: will depend on the decisions that trust council makes right yeah

[0:42:43] Trustee Morrison: so the recommendations that we

[0:42:45] Trustee Morrison: would get from you would be at the march meeting or before the march meeting um

[0:42:49] Voice 10: that's entirely

[0:42:51] Voice 10: up to you to guide us and and we will try to make our recommendations as actionable as possible

[0:42:57] Voice 10: we're not going to give you airy fairy right so if we're talking about governance we'll try to

[0:43:02] Voice 10: to make them as actionable as possible, but I don't know how,

[0:43:07] Voice 10: well, I know a little bit internally

[0:43:09] Voice 10: about how you go about doing that,

[0:43:10] Voice 10: but we'll try to make them as actionable as possible.

[0:43:13] Voice 10: And then it's up to your meeting cycle.

[0:43:15] Voice 10: So if March is inappropriate,

[0:43:19] Voice 10: you know, we might start sharing recommendations

[0:43:22] Voice 10: with you before that, because one of my principles

[0:43:27] Voice 10: in drafting these kinds of things is we want,

[0:43:30] Voice 10: these recommendations have to live

[0:43:32] Voice 10: and survive within the environment in which we're going to deliver them.

[0:43:36] Voice 10: So we understand better today than when we started the nature of some of your challenges

[0:43:41] Voice 10: and the nature of process and so on and so forth that's put in place to manage these issues.

[0:43:48] Voice 10: So we will try in conversation with you to take that into account

[0:43:54] Voice 10: and make meaningful recommendations that are actionable in those terms.

[0:43:59] Voice 10: So at some point, we're not just going to give you a report and say sayonara. We'll work with you on some of this as we get closer to a recommendation stage to actually get something that will try to unite and not divide differing points of view.

[0:44:17] Voice 10: so short of that i don't know like you guide us as to the timetable for that and we'll look to the

[0:44:23] Voice 10: chair and the rest of you you can have this conversation when we're not even on the phone

[0:44:27] Voice 10: if you want so that you can determine what the best way of directing us on this is you just have

[0:44:33] Voice 10: to give us a little bit more time yeah

[0:44:35] Trustee Morrison: no that's understandable so russ and peter i think that

[0:44:38] Trustee Morrison: would be a question that i'd want us to think about um going forward is like what internal

[0:44:43] Trustee Morrison: and all timeline do we have for our policy feedback or policy changes to the election cycle

[0:44:49] Trustee Morrison: that might be impacted by this and i'd like

[0:44:53] Voice 10: to tell you on executive committee all but two trustees

[0:44:56] Voice 10: have raised it as an issue that's a pretty resounding commentary and it's not a personal

[0:45:03] Voice 10: thing about the people who are on executive committee it's just the process by which the

[0:45:07] Voice 10: elections occur essentially too rushed right too rushed too new and we know that there are reasons

[0:45:14] Voice 10: for that. But the fact that so many people have raised it, I think, requires some kind of

[0:45:20] Voice 10: commentary and response.

[0:45:25] Trustee Morrison: So then the other question I have is actually more for Russ,

[0:45:29] Trustee Morrison: and it's related to the time. I know when we started this, there was a concern about how much

[0:45:34] Trustee Morrison: time might be taken up with staff in meeting the needs of the consultants. Can you give us a sort

[0:45:42] Trustee Morrison: of like back of the envelope like how you're feeling about that at this point in in the process

[0:45:48] Trustee Morrison: i

[0:45:49] Voice 6: feel good okay yeah and nothing for you to worry about or uh ec i report to ec every couple of

[0:45:56] Voice 6: weeks and there's been no big time piece that's been um dedicated at this point you know the

[0:46:02] Voice 6: reconciliation questions i i'm not i'll hold my comments till later um around um where we're going

[0:46:09] Voice 6: going there um but so far yeah no it's just um good conversation so far on a sort of anecdotal

[0:46:16] Voice 6: basis and then we'll just move into the uh individual interviews okay

[0:46:21] Trustee Morrison: that sounds great

[0:46:22] Trustee Morrison: it's

[0:46:23] Voice 6: almost best that the staff aren't really prepared they just go in and um yeah respond as

[0:46:28] Voice 6: as anyone would i

[0:46:30] Voice 10: was just going to say from our standpoint all having been senior staff

[0:46:33] Voice 10: we're very mindful of some of the things we heard in the interviews but also the fact that

[0:46:39] Voice 10: we know it was a concern at the beginning and we don't we don't need to get in staff's way they've

[0:46:44] Voice 10: got their day jobs to do and we've got our mandate so um if where we're where we think we need more

[0:46:51] Voice 10: information we'll be back to Russ where we think we've got a picture we'll be back to Russ where

[0:46:57] Voice 10: we start shaping things we'll be back to Russ but we're mindful of their time and respectful of

[0:47:03] Voice 10: their time all

[0:47:05] Trustee Morrison: right and and then i also wanted to raise i feel the need to raise this as the

[0:47:10] Trustee Morrison: apparently only female member of this committee um i did want to just raise that concern that

[0:47:16] Trustee Morrison: had been raised initially when this committee was formed um and wondered if it's coming up at all

[0:47:22] Trustee Morrison: if it's a theme in the interviews and how we as a committee are addressing that because i want to

[0:47:28] Trustee Morrison: to have a unified voice and I have my thoughts about that

[0:47:32] Trustee Morrison: and I'm happy to share them,

[0:47:34] Trustee Morrison: but I do wanna name that because I don't want the issue

[0:47:36] Trustee Morrison: of gender representation on this committee

[0:47:38] Trustee Morrison: to undermine the results of this committee.

[0:47:42] Trustee Morrison: So thoughts?

[0:47:45] Trustee Morrison: The

[0:47:45] Voice 10: issue has come up and my way of dealing with it

[0:47:53] Voice 10: is to deal with it straight up.

[0:47:55] Voice 10: I wasn't aware of it going into the interviews.

[0:47:57] Voice 10: I've got quite low back as Jim is my witness on some of these in some of these calls.

[0:48:05] Voice 10: But those folks having been heard, then move gingerly into another hour and a half on top of the first 20 minutes of interviews and describing their their views.

[0:48:20] Voice 10: it has come up um from about i say a third of the interviewees uh if i do just do a quick

[0:48:28] Voice 10: count off the top of my head um and i didn't mention it in the process because at the end

[0:48:35] Voice 10: of the day it will not be material to our findings but it may be material to how they're received

[0:48:41] Voice 10: um from you so i'll just leave it at that other

[0:48:47] Trustee Morrison: thoughts on that so i think the one thing i'd

[0:48:53] Trustee Morrison: like to just say like really frankly to that is for your like the last three years I've been the

[0:48:58] Trustee Morrison: only female member of the trust programs committee and I haven't had a peep about it so I just need

[0:49:05] Trustee Morrison: that to be clear that like I just need that to be known that I don't find it to be an issue

[0:49:13] Trustee Morrison: and this committee and others were invited to to be part of this committee that were female but

[0:49:18] Trustee Morrison: chose not to be so i feel like i need just to say it on the record um that that is my understanding

[0:49:26] Trustee Morrison: of how things flowed out so i'm good with how we're proceeding and

[0:49:35] Trustee Middleton: and thank you and and deb

[0:49:37] Trustee Middleton: just to one of your comments about timing um we originally were looking to receive the final

[0:49:43] Trustee Middleton: report from the consultants in december but then as a ceo pointed out when you look at the process

[0:49:51] Trustee Middleton: by which council deliberates on matters, there's a time frame and you have to work yourself

[0:49:56] Trustee Middleton: backwards from that. And because of just an accident of the calendar that the December

[0:50:02] Trustee Middleton: meeting this year was actually in November. And as you work your way back to submission

[0:50:07] Trustee Middleton: to this committee, we would then submit to the executive committee. You know, we sort

[0:50:13] Trustee Middleton: of bring the time frame into early November for a complete report. And we all felt that

[0:50:18] Trustee Middleton: That was kind of constraining the governance and management review unnecessarily, particularly when the contract ran until next April.

[0:50:29] Trustee Middleton: And so for that reason, we said we'd like to receive the final report at the following Trust Council meeting or have the final report received and ready for presentation at the following Trust Council meeting.

[0:50:42] Trustee Middleton: and our understanding is we'll be inviting the consultants to make a

[0:50:45] Trustee Middleton: presentation ask questions or be asked questions by the whole council at that

[0:50:50] Trustee Middleton: point now it's a fair point and I'm very interested in you know this will be

[0:50:54] Trustee Middleton: ongoing conversation if if recommendations are clearly emerging

[0:50:58] Trustee Middleton: prior to that and they are seen as actionable then obviously that there

[0:51:03] Trustee Middleton: might be a way that we can address those those sooner but I don't think we're

[0:51:08] Trustee Middleton: quite there yet because the consultants are still in depth of research and so

[0:51:12] Trustee Middleton: So, and we have at least two more scheduled meetings

[0:51:16] Trustee Middleton: where we're probably going to be meeting

[0:51:18] Trustee Middleton: a little more intensively now,

[0:51:19] Trustee Middleton: at least once a month.

[0:51:20] Trustee Middleton: We're scheduled October, November.

[0:51:24] Trustee Middleton: And so, yeah, I anticipate we'll be having

[0:51:26] Trustee Middleton: a pretty free ranging discussion on this very topic

[0:51:29] Trustee Middleton: over the next two meetings.

[0:51:31] Trustee Middleton: That was just a bit of background on that point.

[0:51:33] Trustee Middleton: It was a very good question.

[0:51:34] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[0:51:35] Trustee Middleton: From

[0:51:41] Voice 10: our standpoint, we'll try to work in such a way

[0:51:43] Voice 10: that there are no surprises for you.

[0:51:48] Voice 14: We like surprises.

[0:51:50] Voice 10: Well, I mean, they might be good surprises, but they'll be surprises that you're aware of.

[0:51:54] Voice 10: They'll be surprises the first time you hear them.

[0:51:56] Voice 10: And you won't be hearing them for the first time in March is all I have to say.

[0:52:01] Voice 10: And you'll have to give us, I mean, what we've given you today are preliminary high level observations.

[0:52:06] Voice 10: observations uh once we've had some time to sit and sort of come up with you know um material

[0:52:14] Voice 10: material issues in terms of governance and management that are actionable within your

[0:52:21] Voice 10: existing frame and then if there are any others that have come up and there are some already but

[0:52:28] Voice 10: the question is after we've talked to the province and after we've talked to you do we include those

[0:52:33] Voice 10: those others for whatever purposes are helpful

[0:52:39] Voice 10: and required at the time.

[0:52:41] Voice 10: So as the chair of this committee has said,

[0:52:45] Voice 10: we'll be back to you more intensively

[0:52:47] Voice 10: with more details as we go.

[0:52:52] Voice 10: And whatever we recommend should not become

[0:52:54] Voice 10: in a left field, right?

[0:52:55] Voice 10: It will be drawn from the information we've gotten

[0:52:58] Voice 10: and the research that we will do

[0:53:00] Voice 10: to either support it or not.

[0:53:01] Voice 10: lot.

[0:53:04] Trustee Middleton: Thank you. And Trustee Morrison, you had the further question and case longer is you're

[0:53:11] Trustee Middleton: following Trustee Morrison.

[0:53:14] Trustee Morrison: I think the last question I had was actually just a little bit

[0:53:17] Trustee Morrison: of a technical question. Do we, the correspondence that we received, do we want to, are we dealing

[0:53:23] Trustee Morrison: with that in this longer discussion or is that something we'll deal with after this?

[0:53:29] Trustee Middleton: uh thank you yeah it is on the agenda for following the um the the the consultant's

[0:53:35] Trustee Middleton: report um it obviously is addressed as uh input to the consultants but i think it's appropriate

[0:53:42] Trustee Middleton: that we as the committee um address that correspondence um and and we will do so after

[0:53:48] Trustee Middleton: uh after the consultant's report is is concluded i think there's two letters in fact to be honest

[0:53:59] Trustee Middleton: from the same correspondent that we've received to our attention.

[0:54:04] Trustee Middleton: So they're on the agenda there, and we will definitely address them.

[0:54:12] Trustee Middleton: And Trustee Langeres?

[0:54:14] Voice 7: Yeah, I just wanted to say I'm really happy to hear that you're going to be –

[0:54:18] Voice 7: you've interviewed the trustees, and now you're going to interview staff

[0:54:21] Voice 7: and other parties, and then subsequent to that, you're going to pull it all together

[0:54:25] Voice 7: and come up with your conclusions.

[0:54:28] Voice 7: I think that's pretty good to hear all sides first before any sort of conclusions come out.

[0:54:34] Voice 7: I mean, to me, that's really critical.

[0:54:36] Voice 7: And I'm assuming the timelines we've got are still doable.

[0:54:41] Voice 7: You think it's possible that by March you'd have a report?

[0:54:45] Voice 7: Oh, yes.

[0:54:46] Voice 10: The

[0:54:46] Voice 7: final report in April.

[0:54:47] Voice 7: Yeah, for sure.

[0:54:49] Voice 10: Yeah.

[0:54:53] Voice 10: Yes.

[0:54:54] Voice 10: Charles, yes.

[0:54:56] Voice 10: James, yes.

[0:54:57] Voice 4: Absolutely.

[0:54:57] Voice 4: Lorraine, yes.

[0:54:59] Voice 10: Yes.

[0:55:00] Voice 10: yes yes that's a

[0:55:01] Voice 10: yes yeah thank

[0:55:03] Trustee Middleton: you thank you um just a matter of a procedure because the trust

[0:55:08] Trustee Middleton: council is next week i'm i'm in for the long string of events led to this unfortunate series

[0:55:14] Trustee Middleton: of uh unfortunate timing but i'm away next week i i i am unsure of my ability to a joint to join

[0:55:22] Trustee Middleton: via internet so in in in in the case that I'm not able to present the select

[0:55:29] Trustee Middleton: committee report I I've asked vice chair Lundgren to do so and our plan or had

[0:55:37] Trustee Middleton: been just to put this to you is that we just give a brief verbal update that

[0:55:41] Trustee Middleton: the the trustee interviews of large from what we've heard today the trustee

[0:55:45] Trustee Middleton: interviews have largely been committed um or completed the um senior staff will now be um

[0:55:53] Trustee Middleton: approached and the that the um evidence gathering is is well underway and the and the and the uh the

[0:55:59] Trustee Middleton: project is is well on track and we would we would simply report that fact as we really obviously

[0:56:06] Trustee Middleton: don't have a they would probably wouldn't be fruitful to go into much more detail some of

[0:56:10] Trustee Middleton: which would be on our part to be conjecture at this point because the consultant's work is uh

[0:56:14] Trustee Middleton: underway. So I just, I guess, ask for consensus from the committee to that reportage approach

[0:56:22] Trustee Middleton: to Trust Council next week. Okay. Thank you. So Vice-Chair Lani Grace will deliver a short

[0:56:32] Trustee Middleton: report to Council when asked by the Chair to do so. I think this is on the agenda, actually,

[0:56:39] Trustee Middleton: anyway. Any further questions of our consulting team? Trustee Critchley, please.

[0:56:52] Trustee Middleton: Thank

[0:56:55] Trustee Critchley: you. I just want to throw this out in the context of this discussion with the consultants.

[0:57:02] Trustee Critchley: The questions raised in the two submissions made by Mr. Corbin, is it?

[0:57:13] Trustee Critchley: Yes.

[0:57:15] Trustee Critchley: Just generally, then, for the consultants, when you get these sorts of inquiries posing questions and making suggestions,

[0:57:27] Trustee Critchley: questions, do you expect to be receiving such things or to be ignoring them? Or just what is

[0:57:39] Voice 12: your role in all of that? We have no intention of responding to public input.

[0:57:48] Trustee Critchley: Right. Okay. Thank you.

[0:57:52] Trustee Middleton: I would say, and just follow, we'll get to the specifics of the

[0:57:57] Trustee Middleton: correspondence but i in some ways i think these are political questions that these

[0:58:01] Trustee Middleton: correspondence raise and it would be for us to sort of file this you know we are obviously

[0:58:06] Trustee Middleton: always open to to uh input from from the public but we would file this correspondence and perhaps

[0:58:13] Trustee Middleton: when we receive a uh report we can then determine has has some of these have some of these issues

[0:58:20] Trustee Middleton: been addressed are they still outstanding and that would go for them we've received a lot of

[0:58:25] Trustee Middleton: correspondence i think directed to trustees over the last several months you know triggered perhaps

[0:58:29] Trustee Middleton: by the policy statement review and and some suggestions seem on the surface very sensible

[0:58:35] Trustee Middleton: and and and and good and i think that at that at the point of our receiving the work of the

[0:58:41] Trustee Middleton: consultants we might then go and review correspondence and see uh what fruit could

[0:58:46] Trustee Middleton: be offered to the correspondence from the um from the report um but but not obviously the consultants

[0:58:53] Trustee Middleton: consultants are not concerned with, I mean, this is addressed, this corresponds and addressed to

[0:58:59] Trustee Middleton: us as the committee, not to them as the people tasked with doing this work by us. I mean,

[0:59:07] Trustee Middleton: I'm open to other thoughts on that. That's just how I see it. And Chair Luck, I see your hand is

[0:59:14] Trustee Middleton: raised.

[0:59:17] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, I just, you know, want to suggest that we need to consider any actions that this

[0:59:26] Trustee Luckham: committee might choose to take with respect to unsolicited correspondence because of course this

[0:59:33] Trustee Luckham: is not a public engagement process and i would suggest that there would be those that would be

[0:59:39] Trustee Luckham: offended if some were offered the opportunity to be engaged engaged in this processes and others

[0:59:47] Trustee Luckham: were not invited it's terrific that people speak up but i think it's better probably to receive it

[0:59:53] Trustee Luckham: for information, but just a note of caution and certainly open to any ideas and suggestions.

[1:00:00] Trustee Luckham: we it's easy enough for us to attract criticism so uh just would want to be careful thank you

[1:00:08] Trustee Middleton: sound advice i think trustee morrison yeah

[1:00:11] Trustee Morrison: i would suggest too that that our role is not to

[1:00:15] Trustee Morrison: field correspondence in this committee and that as such we should officially refer the correspondence

[1:00:23] Trustee Morrison: comments to executive committee because it's not for us to deal with it no

[1:00:31] Trustee Middleton: fair point and

[1:00:33] Trustee Middleton: what I think we'll do when we come to that section of the agenda we'll obviously have

[1:00:37] Trustee Middleton: to deliberate on how we address the two items of correspondence directed to us but I think

[1:00:42] Trustee Middleton: this has been useful feedback from the consultants and our view as well as a committee trustee

[1:00:49] Trustee Middleton: Thank

[1:00:54] Trustee Critchley: you. I was just going to concur with both Trustee Gluckom and Trustee Morrison on the handling of this correspondence.

[1:01:04] Trustee Critchley: I may be putting a cart before the horse. Maybe this isn't directly before us at the moment, but I just see these questions as being really unanswerable by this committee.

[1:01:15] Trustee Critchley: committee, probably for resource reasons as much as anything, but also for our mandate.

[1:01:24] Trustee Critchley: We just simply,

[1:01:25] Voice 4: answering

[1:01:27] Trustee Critchley: such questions is outside of our mandate in my view.

[1:01:31] Trustee Critchley: We have a very limited mandate for this committee and basically shepherding the consultants

[1:01:36] Trustee Critchley: through their process and assisting them.

[1:01:39] Trustee Critchley: them. And this, I think we just we just don't entertain and get into into any major discussion

[1:01:47] Trustee Critchley: of this.

[1:01:47] Trustee Critchley: Thank

[1:01:49] Trustee Middleton: you, Trustee Critchley and CAO Hudson-Piller.

[1:01:54] Voice 6: Mr. Chair, why don't you simply receive the communication? And that would do the trick.

[1:02:03] Trustee Middleton: Oops. Yeah, I think what so what we'll do is I think when we get to that item on the

[1:02:08] Trustee Middleton: the agenda I know we've sort of strayed into it that that's if that's the

[1:02:12] Trustee Middleton: pleasure of the committee which it sounds like it is then that's exactly

[1:02:15] Trustee Middleton: what we'll do so if with your forbearance that I you know entertain

[1:02:22] Trustee Middleton: this discussion outside of that agenda item but I appreciate the dialogue I

[1:02:28] Trustee Middleton: just can't ask again if there's any final questions before we turn to

[1:02:32] Trustee Middleton: correspondence in agenda item six for the consultants yes

[1:02:35] Voice 10: and the departure of

[1:02:37] Voice 10: the consultants i hope

[1:02:38] Trustee Middleton: yes we won't be offended

[1:02:41] Trustee Middleton: i mean we will be

[1:02:42] Trustee Middleton: but you know we'll hide it um so

[1:02:45] Trustee Middleton: um um yeah well thank you very much no i appreciate that uh report it was comprehensive

[1:02:51] Trustee Middleton: just what we needed to hear to give us confidence that where things are in good hands and uh you're

[1:02:59] Trustee Middleton: you're you're taking the mission of of interviewing people and gathering evidence from the field very

[1:03:04] Trustee Middleton: seriously and um and thank you in that um so awesome do you have a final

[1:03:10] Trustee Middleton: question for I do not sorry so yeah with that I think we'll be seeing I think it's

[1:03:20] Trustee Middleton: October forces our next meeting so we'll be we'll be looking forward to seeing

[1:03:24] Trustee Middleton: you by zoom at that point and thank you for for attending thank

[1:03:31] Voice 10: you it's been

[1:03:31] Voice 10: nice to see you all take care yeah

[1:03:34] Trustee Middleton: okay much appreciated bye-bye okay we'll move now to uh

[1:03:41] Trustee Middleton: this uh agenda item and uh i'll just make sure i'm i'm not yeah so there are two items of

[1:03:52] Trustee Middleton: correspondence you've seen two letters from uh don corman um one with a set of questions

[1:03:59] Trustee Middleton: questions that Trustee Critchley referred to and the other giving some sort of views in regard

[1:04:07] Trustee Middleton: how governance might be restructured with the trust. And so I would just echo my earlier point

[1:04:14] Trustee Middleton: and our CEOs and Trustee Critchley's that this is certainly we appreciate correspondence and we

[1:04:22] Trustee Middleton: will receive this correspondence, but it would be inappropriate for us to make any comments,

[1:04:28] Trustee Middleton: and certainly if we were inclined to while the work of the governor's review is underway.

[1:04:34] Trustee Middleton: So I see Trustee Brent and Trustee Morrison have their hands up.

[1:04:39] Trustee Middleton: So

[1:04:40] Voice 3: I'm going to move receipt of this correspondence,

[1:04:43] Voice 3: but I'm also going to say how much we all appreciate hearing from constituents on all of the correspondence.

[1:04:50] Voice 3: And we've received a massive amount of correspondence over the last couple of months.

[1:04:55] Voice 3: and it's extremely important for us for us to hear for from constituents and uh i just want to say

[1:05:02] Voice 3: that and it's moved

[1:05:03] Trustee Middleton: um i'm just gonna take the correspondence off my screen if i can here just

[1:05:12] Trustee Middleton: to see if that we have a seconder um uh the trustee morrison was that the second and the

[1:05:18] Trustee Middleton: question did you wish to speak to your motion trustee brent i think i have thanks and trustee

[1:05:26] Trustee Middleton: morrison do you have a i see your hand up uh an

[1:05:28] Trustee Morrison: additional thing i'll speak after we go on this

[1:05:31] Trustee Morrison: motion okay

[1:05:32] Trustee Middleton: fair enough uh trustee critchley thank

[1:05:36] Trustee Critchley: you um i'm just wondering procedurally here

[1:05:40] Trustee Critchley: i'm not sure what the effect of it is for receiving i know the motion to receive

[1:05:47] Trustee Critchley: but if we pass this motion are we then um acknowledging that this is something within

[1:05:55] Trustee Critchley: within the ambit of this committee

[1:05:58] Trustee Critchley: and therefore encouraging further submissions

[1:06:03] Trustee Critchley: because a motion to receive is kind of a formal matter

[1:06:07] Trustee Critchley: and I'm not quite sure what the implications of it are.

[1:06:11] Trustee Critchley: I kind of need a legislative advisor on that.

[1:06:16] Trustee Critchley: Maybe there's some other motion that ought to be made.

[1:06:19] Trustee Critchley: I just raised that because I don't want to be seen

[1:06:22] Trustee Critchley: to be encouraging a flood of these things

[1:06:24] Trustee Critchley: is being received by us as opposed to such correspondence being directed to trust counsel

[1:06:30] Trustee Critchley: in the whole thank

[1:06:35] Trustee Middleton: you thank you uh trust trustee uh vice chair long grace please yeah

[1:06:39] Voice 7: i'm just not

[1:06:41] Voice 7: certain whether a motion or at other times we just receive information we receive letters for

[1:06:47] Voice 7: information only and without actually saying it's a motion but is there a sense that if we do a

[1:06:53] Voice 7: motion that it's it differs in legal impact i'm just not sure of that yeah

[1:07:01] Trustee Middleton: i i i do not have

[1:07:03] Trustee Middleton: anything to add there unfortunately uh chair luckham do you have any any thoughts on that

[1:07:11] Trustee Middleton: oh you're muted peter you're muted i

[1:07:17] Trustee Luckham: have often considered and i think it's a reasonable

[1:07:20] Trustee Luckham: assumption um that the fact the public agenda has a piece of correspondence contained within it

[1:07:26] Trustee Luckham: we have received.

[1:07:34] Trustee Middleton: Thank you. Do you want to speak to this? I'm not sure. I guess what I'm hearing

[1:07:46] Trustee Middleton: is, do we still proceed with the motion or are we just parsing? We have a mover

[1:07:53] Voice 6: and a seconder,

[1:07:55] Trustee Middleton: Chair Middleton. I think given this was just, it sounds like it's equivalent to just simply

[1:08:02] Trustee Middleton: receipt of of the correspondence by the fact it was on the um on the agenda but if i may make a

[1:08:08] Trustee Middleton: comment i think the perhaps incendiary nature of the first letter which sort of is talking about

[1:08:14] Trustee Middleton: staff reduction in some ways this is seeking to kind of shall we say talk about what an outcome

[1:08:25] Trustee Middleton: of a governance review might be that contemplates such matters and as we've been very clear that is

[1:08:31] Trustee Middleton: not what the purpose of this governance and management review is about so i think i would

[1:08:35] Trustee Middleton: just flag that to state that it's like from that point it's not relevant to our work those those

[1:08:41] Trustee Middleton: initial questions um and then leave it leave it at that any last comment chair like them yeah if

[1:08:49] Trustee Luckham: i might um you know the proper procedure at this point of a moved and seconded motion which is

[1:08:55] Trustee Luckham: owned by the committee now not by the mover or seconder um if the if if it is deemed that the

[1:09:02] Trustee Luckham: motion is after discussion is no longer considered necessary you will require a motion to withdraw

[1:09:09] Trustee Luckham: the motion and that will need to be seconded and voted on okay

[1:09:15] Trustee Middleton: yeah no thanks for that and i guess

[1:09:18] Trustee Middleton: this hinges on are we uh endorsing correspondence by receiving it with a formal motion any more than

[1:09:24] Trustee Middleton: than we would if it was simply received

[1:09:26] Trustee Middleton: by virtue of its being on the agenda.

[1:09:28] Trustee Middleton: And from a legal governance question,

[1:09:30] Trustee Middleton: I simply don't know the answer to that.

[1:09:33] Trustee Middleton: And so at this point, proceeding, Trustee Brim.

[1:09:38] Trustee Middleton: You're muted.

[1:09:44] Voice 3: I'm gonna recommend you call the vote.

[1:09:45] Voice 3: I think we've gone down a slippery slope.

[1:09:47] Voice 3: If we choose not to respond to this vote,

[1:09:51] Voice 3: I think it's gonna send an incorrect message.

[1:09:54] Voice 3: So we often receive things formally

[1:09:57] Voice 3: When we go through agenda packages, the mere fact of it being in the agenda package doesn't mean it's received as far as I'm concerned.

[1:10:06] Voice 3: Otherwise, why would we receive so many things formally during our meetings?

[1:10:12] Voice 3: So there's a disconnect here. I think we should just call the vote.

[1:10:18] Trustee Middleton: I would be happy to do so then.

[1:10:20] Trustee Middleton: So, Trustee Brennan, if you could put your hand down and we'll use those in favor.

[1:10:29] Voice 8: Where are we?

[1:10:30] Voice 8: yeah yeah that's me just sorry just getting the hand okay

[1:10:37] Trustee Middleton: so i uh that if i put myself in there

[1:10:42] Trustee Middleton: too that passes so that correspondence is received per the motion um thank you for that and uh um

[1:10:52] Trustee Middleton: yeah and as far as directing correspondence to the executive committee i think

[1:11:00] Trustee Middleton: have we addressed that issue to your satisfaction trustee morrison no

[1:11:04] Trustee Morrison: that would be my second so i

[1:11:06] Trustee Morrison: moved on to be forwarded to the executive committee do

[1:11:13] Trustee Middleton: we have a seconder that tries

[1:11:15] Trustee Middleton: to face your longer race um any discussion on that point yeah

[1:11:20] Trustee Morrison: i think this is important to

[1:11:22] Trustee Morrison: formally do this because we're not so we're not really dealing with correspondence in this

[1:11:27] Trustee Morrison: committee i think we did we received correspondence that's fine people do what they do and i think

[1:11:32] Trustee Morrison: it's good that that our constituents communicate with us but i do think we need to formally say

[1:11:37] Trustee Morrison: what we're doing with correspondence if it lands in our lab so um that this is now officially like

[1:11:43] Trustee Morrison: forwarding this is the responsibility of the executive committee to address

[1:11:48] Trustee Middleton: thank you and ceo hudson pillar has oh sorry vice chair language i think you were next and then

[1:11:53] Trustee Middleton: i was

[1:11:55] Voice 7: just going to say that the second motion then completes the

[1:11:57] Voice 7: the traveling of that message, of the email to executive,

[1:12:02] Voice 7: which I think is where it belongs.

[1:12:05] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, CEO.

[1:12:06] Trustee Middleton: Mr. Peller, comments, please.

[1:12:08] Voice 6: I understand the EC is the patron saint of all lost causes,

[1:12:11] Voice 6: but I think you've self-selected that you're not going to receive

[1:12:16] Voice 6: communication.

[1:12:18] Voice 6: If someone writes to you, they write to you,

[1:12:20] Voice 6: and they've written to you.

[1:12:22] Voice 6: You've received it.

[1:12:23] Voice 6: You can send it to EC, but EC can receive it.

[1:12:25] Voice 6: I don't think it transfers the responsibility for a subject-specific correspondence

[1:12:31] Voice 6: of which ECU wouldn't be capable of providing to the level the writer's requesting.

[1:12:39] Voice 6: So certainly an action that could occur, but not one that will be profound, I don't think, in its outcome.

[1:12:48] Trustee Middleton: Thank you. Trustee Kale.

[1:12:51] Voice 8: We frequently as a municipality get correspondence such as this,

[1:12:54] Voice 8: and we always send a written acknowledgement thanking the person for writing and say that

[1:12:59] Voice 8: their communication has been part of the agenda and it is it is left to that it is an acknowledgement

[1:13:06] Voice 8: uh a courtesy acknowledgement and uh you know we no no more than that because otherwise you get

[1:13:13] Voice 8: into endless trails and go down countless rabbit holes but um just to acknowledge the fact i think

[1:13:19] Voice 8: it's a courtesy and it's been added to the agenda okay that's what we've done and we'll move on

[1:13:24] Voice 8: thank you very much uh thank you

[1:13:27] Voice 6: we can email the person and let them know that that happened

[1:13:31] Voice 6: if you wish that

[1:13:33] Voice 8: that is what we do and it is and we always do it too so people just don't

[1:13:37] Voice 8: write and then wonder yeah we didn't hear back it's a simple acknowledgement and end of story

[1:13:44] Trustee Middleton: thank you yeah i guess my general view would be echoing the ceos is that

[1:13:49] Trustee Middleton: ec would they're not uh equipped to say anything other than well we are conducting in governance

[1:13:56] Trustee Middleton: and management review. And once it's complete, you can frame your questions in its recommendations

[1:14:03] Trustee Middleton: and see if you've found satisfaction to your points. So we're as capable of saying that

[1:14:10] Trustee Middleton: as EC, I would think, because that's in essence what we do. We've received it. We will receive

[1:14:16] Trustee Middleton: a consultant's report. This obviously makes suggestions about governance. Some we may

[1:14:21] Trustee Middleton: agree with not agree with but we're getting an independent review that will gain that will give

[1:14:26] Trustee Middleton: us a a report that this can be held against so um you know i'm open either way i guess trustee

[1:14:33] Trustee Middleton: morrison final comments you did i

[1:14:40] Trustee Morrison: i don't see um this basic correspondence is actually being

[1:14:45] Trustee Morrison: correctly directed to the select committee even though the applicant said or the the writer said

[1:14:50] Trustee Morrison: that because these questions to me aren't about the mandate that we have as the select committee

[1:14:56] Trustee Morrison: they're like really direct specific questions that are about legalities related to employees

[1:15:02] Trustee Morrison: of the trust or ltc's so like to me this seems like an honest set of questions that should be

[1:15:08] Trustee Morrison: answered um but that it's not really our purview to answer those so that's why i think we should

[1:15:14] Trustee Morrison: just direct it so that actually they potentially can get answered uh

[1:15:20] Trustee Middleton: thank you um any any further

[1:15:23] Trustee Middleton: comments before we vote on that all right then i'll i'll call call the vote all those in favor

[1:15:30] Trustee Middleton: of referring this correspondence to executive committee for reply that that that passes um

[1:15:44] Trustee Middleton: that's thank you for that um so we we shall shall so refer uh don corbyn's uh correspondence and uh

[1:15:53] Trustee Middleton: with thanks to him for or for writing to us um our uh trustee brent did you have any final comment

[1:16:02] Trustee Middleton: to that or oh just very good so all right so this um moving on to our next meeting then it's

[1:16:08] Trustee Middleton: october 4th and the the the note uh provided by staff here is that um we have a meeting scheduled

[1:16:15] Trustee Middleton: for november 1st but we do not have um any meetings scheduled after that and we obviously

[1:16:23] Trustee Middleton: obviously close closer to the time of receipt of report probably will need to be meeting but

[1:16:28] Trustee Middleton: i'd just suggest that we perhaps um wait until well i mean i guess i should put that out to the

[1:16:35] Trustee Middleton: ceo and and the chair who obviously have more complex schedules would it be helpful to right

[1:16:42] Trustee Middleton: now block out some times leading up to march or can we wait uh until at the say at the very least

[1:16:48] Trustee Middleton: the october meeting to do so uh

[1:16:52] Voice 6: mr chair i think uh if you're directing the question to me you

[1:16:55] Voice 6: could wait till october okay

[1:16:57] Voice 6: um yeah and then you'd want to expectations manage around what

[1:17:01] Voice 6: what that leads to in terms of you know i heard some discussions around recommendation um budgeting

[1:17:09] Voice 6: and adoption and those kinds of things and just how that gets sequenced you'd have time for that

[1:17:14] Voice 6: conversation okay

[1:17:16] Trustee Middleton: great uh trustee morrison all

[1:17:19] Trustee Morrison: right apparently i'm full of questions today

[1:17:21] Trustee Morrison: um so do do we in terms of our budget for the project and planning forward for meetings can

[1:17:27] Trustee Morrison: we also get an update where we're at at the next meeting like the october meeting just where we're

[1:17:32] Trustee Morrison: sitting related to our budget do we know that or is that

[1:17:36] Trustee Morrison: fully it's just outside the contract i'm

[1:17:38] Trustee Morrison: just wondering about meeting times for staff time that's what i'm worried about

[1:17:43] Voice 6: we don't cost any

[1:17:45] Voice 6: staff time against this project okay

[1:17:47] Trustee Morrison: and

[1:17:50] Trustee Middleton: I guess just in broad budgetary sense

[1:17:52] Trustee Middleton: the staff would be aware of where we are at in terms of billing from the

[1:17:56] Trustee Middleton: consultants and against the park and update

[1:17:58] Voice 6: you at the next meeting if you

[1:17:59] Voice 6: wish but yeah

[1:18:01] Trustee Middleton: okay well I'll take that advice and see odds and pillar about

[1:18:07] Trustee Middleton: will will wait reserve that discussion for October 4th for future meetings any

[1:18:14] Trustee Middleton: Any final points before I make a call for a motion to adjourn?

[1:18:21] Trustee Middleton: Okay.

[1:18:22] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, everyone, for your participation.

[1:18:24] Trustee Middleton: Much appreciated.

[1:18:26] Trustee Middleton: I look forward to talking again on this topic in October.

[1:18:31] Trustee Middleton: And at that point, I would just ask for a motion to adjourn, please.

[1:18:36] Voice 14: I move that we receive a motion to adjourn.

[1:18:42] Voice 14: I'll second that.

[1:18:46] Trustee Middleton: so we've got i think we had brent and non-grace with a side input from trustee wright that will be

[1:18:52] Trustee Middleton: noted in the minutes his admonishment will be swift and severe um i think all in favor

[1:18:59] Trustee Middleton: of a german thank you very much okay thank you bye

[1:19:04] Trustee Middleton: -bye thanks all thanks bye

[1:19:06] Trustee Morrison: -bye stay safe

[1:19:07] Trustee Morrison: Thank you. Bye-bye.