Islands Trust Council regular meeting, September 22, 2021

[0:00:00] Voice 10: Well, good morning,

[0:00:00] Trustee Luckham: everyone. Welcome back. Thank you for a great day just today.

[0:00:06] Trustee Luckham: For the benefit of our viewing audience, my name is Peter Luckum.

[0:00:11] Trustee Luckham: I'm the chair of Trust Council elected on Thetis Island in the Lax and Penelakut territory.

[0:00:19] Trustee Luckham: It's an honour and privilege to be there.

[0:00:22] Trustee Luckham: And of course, all of us are meeting widely across the Salish Sea,

[0:00:26] Trustee Luckham: home to First Nations for tens of thousands of years.

[0:00:31] Trustee Luckham: and appreciate the knowledge and history and rich culture that has been here since the beginning of

[0:00:37] Trustee Luckham: time. So I'm going to go around the room with a bit of a roll call just to make sure who's here

[0:00:44] Trustee Luckham: and as is my desire to not put the same person on the spot all the time as being first on the list,

[0:00:52] Trustee Luckham: I'm going to start in the middle of the list and go around alphabetically returning to the

[0:00:58] Trustee Luckham: beginning and so the the first person today on my list is that uh

[0:01:02] Trustee Luckham: is david maude on maine island

[0:01:04] Trustee Luckham: good morning david good morning from maine island thank you sir ben mcconkey pender island

[0:01:11] Trustee Luckham: so regrets from ben lee middleton north pender island or sort of south excuse me saturn island

[0:01:23] Trustee Luckham: okay uh dad morrison north pender island i know you're there good morning good to see you

[0:01:31] Trustee Luckham: uh laura patrick uh salt spring island morning good

[0:01:37] Trustee Luckham: morning uh tim peterson

[0:01:40] Trustee Luckham: okay not sure uh tahira rockefeller galliano good

[0:01:51] Voice 32: morning good morning

[0:01:52] Trustee Luckham: dan rogers keith scambier toasteria yes good morning

[0:01:58] Trustee Luckham: good morning um grant scott hornby island

[0:02:11] Trustee Luckham: Kate Louise Stamford, Canberra Island.

[0:02:13] Trustee Stamford: Good morning, everyone.

[0:02:15] Trustee Luckham: Good morning.

[0:02:16] Trustee Luckham: Cameron Thorne, South Bender.

[0:02:21] Trustee Luckham: Jane Wolberton, Galliano.

[0:02:25] Voice 28: Morning.

[0:02:26] Trustee Luckham: Good morning.

[0:02:27] Trustee Luckham: Steve Wright, South Bender.

[0:02:31] Trustee Luckham: Nope.

[0:02:32] Trustee Luckham: So back to the top of my list.

[0:02:34] Trustee Luckham: Alex Allen, Hornby Island.

[0:02:36] Trustee Luckham: Morning from Hornby Island, the unceded territory of the Comox First Nations.

[0:02:41] Trustee Luckham: Morning.

[0:02:42] Trustee Luckham: Paul Brent, Saturn Island.

[0:02:43] Trustee Luckham: island good

[0:02:45] Voice 5: morning from saturn

[0:02:46] Trustee Luckham: island good morning laura beshaken denman island

[0:02:54] Trustee Luckham: not there oh

[0:02:57] Voice 17: you don't you can't hear me oh

[0:02:59] Trustee Luckham: now i can hear you oh that's good okay good

[0:03:02] Trustee Busheikin: i didn't even change anything yeah internet

[0:03:05] Trustee Luckham: weird scott colburn gabriel island david critchley

[0:03:14] Trustee Luckham: Denman Island.

[0:03:15] Voice 9: Good morning.

[0:03:17] Trustee Luckham: Good morning. Janine Dodds, Main Island. Sue Ellen Fast, Bowen Island.

[0:03:27] Trustee Luckham: Good morning. Good morning. Doug Fenton, Edis Island. Morning. Peter Grove, Saltsburg Island.

[0:03:36] Trustee Luckham: Good morning. Peter Johnson, Mesquite Island. Good morning. Michael Kale, Bowen Island.

[0:03:45] Trustee Grove: Good morning.

[0:03:50] Trustee Luckham: Good morning everyone. I'm just going to start off with our respectful working place environment

[0:04:10] Trustee Luckham: message. As chair of this committee, I'm committed to ensuring that all people who speak at this

[0:04:15] Trustee Luckham: meeting are treated fairly and respectfully and the language we use will reflect the no

[0:04:20] Trustee Luckham: reflect that no form of discrimination is acceptable or tolerated we will all take

[0:04:25] Trustee Luckham: responsibility to create a safe inclusive environment for everyone to participate and

[0:04:30] Trustee Luckham: be respected members of this committee may call a point of order if a speaker's language is not

[0:04:34] Trustee Luckham: respectful the chair may mute the speaker and ask that the language be adjusted before continuing

[0:04:40] Trustee Luckham: comments that include criticisms or attacks on other people are considered discriminatory

[0:04:44] Trustee Luckham: and not allowed. All comments should be accurate and direct. Thank you for helping make this a

[0:04:50] Trustee Luckham: safe environment for all. And I appreciate you helping out wherever you can. Sometimes

[0:04:55] Trustee Luckham: I do miss subtleties in the background. So thank you all for that. So we're going to start off

[0:05:06] Trustee Luckham: today with Section 6, Trust Area Services. And before they do that, I just want to briefly

[0:05:14] Trustee Luckham: mentioned here in Victoria office in Lugankan Territory.

[0:05:18] Trustee Luckham: We have the CEO, Russ Hotzenpiller.

[0:05:19] Trustee Luckham: We have Claire Freider, Director of Trust Area Services.

[0:05:23] Trustee Luckham: Carmen Thiel, our Legislative Services Director.

[0:05:28] Trustee Luckham: And of course, Lori Foster,

[0:05:32] Trustee Luckham: whom none of this would be possible

[0:05:34] Trustee Luckham: without her technical expertise.

[0:05:36] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much, Lori.

[0:05:39] Trustee Luckham: And so, as I mentioned yesterday,

[0:05:41] Trustee Luckham: they will pick up items 4.24 and 4.25 as time permits later in the agenda, possibly even as

[0:05:48] Trustee Luckham: late as tomorrow. But just also mention that those are administrative in nature and not critical

[0:05:54] Trustee Luckham: at this point to the business of Trust Council. So even if we didn't get to them, which wouldn't

[0:05:58] Trustee Luckham: be ideal, but wouldn't be the end of the world. So let us begin with the Trust Area Services.

[0:06:05] Trustee Luckham: then. We have four consent agenda items, 6.11, 1.2, 1.3, and 1.4, which I'm presuming you've all

[0:06:16] Trustee Luckham: read through or looked at. And I'm just going to ask if there's any one of those four items

[0:06:22] Trustee Luckham: that any trustee would like to speak to or ask a question about. Otherwise, we will adopt the

[0:06:30] Trustee Luckham: recommendations as presented in those items so just a digital hand i see case longer ice

[0:06:36] Trustee Luckham: has got his hand up which item would you like to speak to uh

[0:06:40] Voice 37: to the uh legislative uh the

[0:06:44] Voice 37: legislative monitoring okay

[0:06:46] Trustee Luckham: 6.1.2 thank you case anybody else no okay so then i'm we'll take it

[0:06:56] Trustee Luckham: then the 6.11, 6.13, 6.14 will be, will adopt the recommendations as presented in those items

[0:07:04] Trustee Luckham: by general consent. So thank you very much. So 6.1.2 is the legislative monitoring briefing

[0:07:10] Trustee Luckham: and case long rise over to you. A

[0:07:17] Voice 37: question about the DRIPA Act feedback, the input that the

[0:07:21] Voice 37: government was asking for, and it was extended, I see extended till September the 15th, which is

[0:07:26] Voice 37: the past date but i know that it was open to other government agencies and ministries to provide

[0:07:31] Voice 37: feedback and i'm just curious did the island's trust provide any feedback at all no no okay just

[0:07:39] Voice 37: yeah i didn't know when it started but it was uh anyway okay thank you yeah

[0:07:47] Trustee Luckham: maybe uh for clarity

[0:07:50] Trustee Luckham: claire um the legislative the legislative monitoring report that we create is uh created

[0:07:56] Trustee Luckham: it on a regular basis and unless council wants to raise an issue or topic in in that legislative

[0:08:03] Trustee Luckham: work of that of the province um we just received that for in information that's correct yeah thank

[0:08:12] Trustee Luckham: you so thank you for the question case so let us then now get uh on to the the decision and

[0:08:19] Trustee Luckham: discussion items of today um and uh the first item off is the director of trust area services report

[0:08:29] Trustee Luckham: and um claire frader um you could give us the highlight to what's going on in your area thank

[0:08:36] Voice 23: you chair welcome uh in terms of some highlights uh just pleased to report that we have some

[0:08:41] Voice 23: developments on the staffing front um jillian nickel has returned to us into an engagement

[0:08:46] Voice 23: temporary engagement planning position to help with all the engagement work that's going on at

[0:08:50] Voice 23: this time. And I've also hired an as-and-when administrative assistant just to

[0:08:55] Voice 23: fill in some

[0:08:55] Voice 23: of the gaps that we've been getting on the administrative front with a number of vacancies

[0:08:58] Voice 23: within Trust Area Services. We are

[0:09:01] Voice 23: continuing to recruit for a community communication specialist

[0:09:06] Voice 23: and are feeling optimistic that that will be posted hopefully this week. So stay tuned. We'll

[0:09:12] Voice 23: give you some more information on staffing as it develops um in terms of highlights in terms of the

[0:09:16] Voice 23: work um you've got a substantive report in front of you so i won't take too much time to walk you

[0:09:20] Voice 23: through it just to highlight that once again this quarter the policy statement project has been a

[0:09:25] Voice 23: dominant um work priority for the team as has website and i will also um i'm pleased to tell

[0:09:31] Voice 23: you that we've made significant process working through all of the feedback we've received on the

[0:09:35] Voice 23: website and we're now down to just a handful of comments that are not yet responded to

[0:09:39] Voice 23: we are

[0:09:40] Voice 23: expecting this week to move into amending the navigation structure for the local trust area

[0:09:45] Voice 23: pages and are working towards renaming all of the bylaw schedules and that will then complete

[0:09:51] Voice 23: most of the work that's been asked for in terms of tweaking and making improvements to the site

[0:09:57] Voice 23: so if you've got outstanding concerns please do send them into web comments and we'll take a fresh

[0:10:02] Voice 23: look at those and look at responding to them and thank you to everyone for your patience around

[0:10:06] Voice 23: that. You'll also see that we've progressed with the Secretariat support with support now provided

[0:10:13] Voice 23: to the Rural Economic Forum that's being planned for October and we're having a contract let to

[0:10:21] Voice 23: support the Southern Gulf Islands Forum which has a meeting on Friday as well as the Coastal Douglas

[0:10:28] Voice 23: Fur Conservation Partnership. We're still working through the details of what support they would

[0:10:31] Voice 23: like but have active conversations underway um you'll note that there's been quite a lot of

[0:10:36] Voice 23: effort around communications and we'll continue to make that a priority focus and uh you'll also

[0:10:42] Voice 23: note there's been quite a lot of work happening in the area of reconciliation so i'd be happy to

[0:10:47] Voice 23: take any questions any

[0:10:49] Trustee Luckham: questions for the director show digital hands would be helpful any good no

[0:10:59] Trustee Luckham: very good claire thank you very much for your report thank you for the work that you do for

[0:11:02] Trustee Luckham: Oh, I see Trustee Morrison has got her hand up there now.

[0:11:07] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, just a quick comment.

[0:11:09] Trustee Morrison: I would like to just say a big thank you to all of Trust Area Services staff for the work that they've been doing across multiple projects.

[0:11:19] Trustee Morrison: And in relation to the trust policy statement, which we'll get into a little bit more, for fielding the plethora of comments and feedback that have been coming in and that will keep coming in.

[0:11:30] Trustee Morrison: So thank you all for that.

[0:11:32] Trustee Luckham: Indeed.

[0:11:33] Trustee Luckham: Indeed, thank you, Trustee Morrison,

[0:11:35] Trustee Luckham: Chair of Trust Programs Committee.

[0:11:37] Trustee Luckham: I share all of those sentiments, thank you.

[0:11:41] Voice 23: Thank you, I'll pass that on to the team.

[0:11:45] Trustee Luckham: All right then, so your hand down please, Trustee Morrison,

[0:11:50] Trustee Luckham: and let us now go to 6.2.2,

[0:11:54] Trustee Luckham: Policy Statement Amendment Project,

[0:11:56] Trustee Luckham: Phase Three, Public Engagement Plan.

[0:11:59] Trustee Luckham: This is a request for decision,

[0:12:00] Trustee Luckham: and Molly Steeves of MODIS is here with us

[0:12:04] Trustee Luckham: today um to walk us through uh the the proposal i'm going to turn it to um to the cao to start us

[0:12:13] Trustee Luckham: off and introduce the topic well

[0:12:14] Voice 12: thank you sure welcome and uh just very briefly from me uh trust

[0:12:17] Voice 12: council uh good morning um no doubt you're aware after july 8th the trust council made a direction

[0:12:25] Voice 12: for the Islands Trust to review its engagement strategy

[0:12:30] Voice 12: associated with the Islands Trust

[0:12:34] Voice 12: policy statement amendment project

[0:12:38] Voice 12: and that a more robust engagement strategy provided for

[0:12:42] Voice 12: and better be developed for it with

[0:12:45] Voice 12: prior to your next meeting.

[0:12:47] Voice 12: And following that executive committee sat

[0:12:50] Voice 12: and refined that direction more and said,

[0:12:52] Voice 12: let's bring in some outside eyes

[0:12:55] Voice 12: on how we engage and to see if we can really satisfy community need and for the project.

[0:13:03] Voice 12: And to that end, I was very happy when Think Lotus agreed to join us and provide this work.

[0:13:10] Voice 12: And I want to take this moment to thank Molly Steeves and her team for the work that she's

[0:13:14] Voice 12: provided.

[0:13:15] Voice 12: So you've got now in front of you really a range of options that you can consider and

[0:13:22] Voice 12: review and make your determinations.

[0:13:24] Voice 12: and just pointing out that this is probably done at triple time speed and that was just the nature

[0:13:32] Voice 12: of the timing we had so I appreciate the efforts by everybody the direction of Trust Council the

[0:13:37] Voice 12: assistance of I think Lotus and the work of the staff so now Claire is going to take us into a

[0:13:42] Voice 12: slightly more detailed introduction and then we'll move to Molly.

[0:13:47] Voice 23: Thank you CAO so I just want to speak

[0:13:50] Voice 23: to the request for decision that's in front of you today in your agenda package um within the

[0:13:55] Voice 23: request for decision you'll note that there are it provides for three scenarios

[0:14:02] sorry

[0:14:04] Voice 23: just waiting for the camera to shift so you can all see me

[0:14:08] Voice 23: good morning all um so within that within your request for decision there are sort of three

[0:14:13] Voice 23: scenarios outlined in the attached engagement plan um the executive committee asked staff to prepare

[0:14:18] Voice 23: prepare a project charters for scenarios two and three, and those are before you today.

[0:14:24] Voice 23: Trust Council could suggest, could select any of the options or a blend of the options.

[0:14:30] Voice 23: As noted in the CAO comments in your RFD, it's not feasible to undertake first reading by December,

[0:14:35] Voice 23: so the proposed engagement strategy assumes that we'll move to first reading in the spring of 2022.

[0:14:42] Voice 23: As Trust Council considers the available options, it will need to consider the desired timelines

[0:14:46] Voice 23: and the depth of engagement that you would like to support.

[0:14:49] Voice 23: Following a decision by Trust Council, staff are prepared to work to develop a bid document that will set out Trust Council's desired engagement methods and then move into a procurement process.

[0:15:00] Voice 23: We have invited Molly Steeves here today. She's a Senior Planner with MODIS Planning, Design and Engagement to provide you with an overview of the proposed engagement strategy that's in your agenda.

[0:15:10] Voice 23: Following the presentation, she'll be available for questions, as will Russ and myself.

[0:15:15] Voice 23: Before I pass the floor over to Molly, I'm pleased to let you know that we've already

[0:15:19] Voice 23: heard back from Malahat Nation, Slammin' First Nation, Weywukam Nation, WSANIC Leadership

[0:15:26] Voice 23: Council and Sinemut First Nation that they are interested in responding to requests for

[0:15:30] Voice 23: engagement on the draft.

[0:15:32] Voice 23: Staff will be scheduling meetings with other nations in the coming weeks.

[0:15:35] Voice 23: In addition,

[0:15:36] Voice 23: staff in the CIO have sent a letter to Indigenous people living on Salt

[0:15:40] Voice 23: Spring Island requesting a meeting, and staff have been working with Indigenous people living

[0:15:44] Voice 23: on Galliano Island to set up a meeting and assist with relationship building. We are continuing to

[0:15:49] Voice 23: post correspondence from the public and from and referral agency responses to the Islands 2050

[0:15:54] Voice 23: webpage and they are there at all times for you to review and contemplate. So with that introduction

[0:16:00] Voice 23: I'm pleased to turn the floor over to Molly Steeves. She'll provide you with an introduction

[0:16:04] Voice 23: of the proposed engagement strategy. Hi Molly.

[0:16:10] Voice 35: Thank you Claire. So I have a presentation that

[0:16:13] Voice 35: that I'd like to walk everyone through.

[0:16:15] Voice 35: And as Claire mentioned,

[0:16:16] Voice 35: I'll be available to answer questions afterwards.

[0:16:19] Voice 35: So I just request that we hold those

[0:16:21] Voice 35: until the end of the presentation.

[0:16:24] Voice 35: Okay, let me just get full screen here.

[0:16:27] Voice 35: So Claire introduced me.

[0:16:29] Voice 35: My name is Molly Steeves.

[0:16:31] Voice 35: I'm a senior planner and public engagement specialist

[0:16:34] Voice 35: with a firm called Modus.

[0:16:37] Voice 35: I was born on Treaty 7 territory,

[0:16:39] Voice 35: which is the territory of the Blackfoot Confederacy,

[0:16:42] Voice 35: the Dakota Nations, the Tsutsina Nation, as well as the historic Métis homelands.

[0:16:48] Voice 35: But I've been grateful to call the territory, unceded territory, of the Musqueam, Squamish,

[0:16:55] Voice 35: and Tsleil-Waututh my home for the last 11 years, and that's where I'm joining you from today.

[0:17:01] Voice 35: So to begin, I wanted to introduce you to the firm MODIS. We have been working on this project.

[0:17:08] Voice 35: As Russ said, it's been a bit of an expedited timeline, but we've brought together a team

[0:17:14] Voice 35: of public engagement professionals to work on this.

[0:17:19] Voice 35: So I was project manager, I'm a senior planner, and we had four other folks working on the

[0:17:25] Voice 35: team who brought a variety of different specialties to really dive into this work and provide

[0:17:30] Voice 35: their expertise as we moved through this.

[0:17:32] Voice 35: So we're an integrated firm. And what that means is that we have a unique blend of expertise that we bring to each of our projects.

[0:17:42] Voice 35: So we are a planning firm, a design firm, as well as an engagement firm.

[0:17:47] Voice 35: So what that means is when we come on to engagement projects, we all speak planning language and understand design implications.

[0:17:57] Voice 35: so it benefits a project like this that integrated skill set and I've just included a little graphic

[0:18:05] Voice 35: here about our core values as a firm because I think many of these are directly relevant to the

[0:18:11] Voice 35: work at hand here really looking to build capacity with our clients thinking about things through an

[0:18:18] Voice 35: inclusion lens and really looking to opportunities for growth and improvement on all of our project

[0:18:25] Voice 35: work. And so that's really core and center of how we approach our work. So in terms of the work

[0:18:33] Voice 35: that we are doing today, we worked on a phase three engagement strategy, which many of you

[0:18:39] Voice 35: have reviewed. In summary, what it contained was a first section, which was largely background.

[0:18:48] Voice 35: So we looked at the project to date and reviewed the engagement that had been undertaken thus far

[0:18:54] Voice 35: and looked at the response, the public response to that engagement.

[0:19:00] Voice 35: Then we reviewed the proposed timeline and our target audiences who we were intending to reach

[0:19:07] Voice 35: out to and began to think about how we would move forward. So we set forth engagement principles

[0:19:16] Voice 35: building upon those that were established within the first and second phases of this engagement

[0:19:20] Voice 35: process and established a series of objectives. And I'm going to walk through those in more detail

[0:19:26] Voice 35: as we move through the presentation. And with all of that background, with all of that understanding,

[0:19:32] Voice 35: we developed a series of recommendations going forward. And that's really the subject of this

[0:19:37] Voice 35: discussion today. So where we needed to start was we needed to review the Islands 2050 process to

[0:19:47] Voice 35: date. So many of you will be very familiar with this graphic. It is the process diagram for the

[0:19:55] Voice 35: Islands 2050 project. And so what we did is we began to just look at the first and second phases

[0:20:02] Voice 35: of engagement. And so I think it's very important to point out that the first and second phases of

[0:20:11] Voice 35: of the Islands 2050 project had higher reach

[0:20:13] Voice 35: than any other islands trust process to date.

[0:20:16] Voice 35: So that was a big success in terms of broadening the reach.

[0:20:22] Voice 35: There's statistics within the, what we heard reports,

[0:20:26] Voice 35: but there was many events, open houses

[0:20:31] Voice 35: and ideas shared through thought exchange.

[0:20:36] Voice 35: In terms of the, what we heard report, it was very clear.

[0:20:38] Voice 35: It reported back on the values

[0:20:40] Voice 35: that had been heard, and there was a clear message from the public that the connection to nature,

[0:20:48] Voice 35: the preserve and protect mandate, and the rural island culture were incredibly important.

[0:20:54] Voice 35: And so as we were working through the materials, one thing that we identified is that there was

[0:21:00] Voice 35: a missing link between those values that were identified and the draft statement itself,

[0:21:05] Voice 35: which is to say, how did what we heard influence where we're at now? And so I think that that's an

[0:21:11] Voice 35: opportunity for improvement as we move forward. We heard very clearly from the public that there

[0:21:18] Voice 35: was a need to improve communications and to provide clear information on how the information

[0:21:23] Voice 35: gathered during phase one and phase two fed into the work, as I said. And we also began to see

[0:21:29] Voice 35: a lot of information spread online and so we began to think also about how Islands Trust could

[0:21:37] Voice 35: engage with that and as a result of you know staff capacity and other issues communications

[0:21:47] Voice 35: around the project really were had to become reactive as opposed to proactive and I'll get

[0:21:56] Voice 35: get into that a little bit more. So that's where we started. We did an analysis of what has been

[0:22:00] Voice 35: done to date. And then it was incredibly important to articulate at the outset, why is Islands Trust

[0:22:07] Voice 35: engaging? And so really there's four key objectives to why we're going through this engagement

[0:22:15] Voice 35: process. And so really the first is to confirm what residents and stakeholders value about the

[0:22:21] Voice 35: Islands Trust Area and what their aspirations are for its future. And these are values that

[0:22:27] Voice 35: were established during phase one and phase two. So as we move forward, we'll want to confirm those

[0:22:32] Voice 35: and be very clear about the response to those as the work progresses. Secondly, we want to gather

[0:22:40] Voice 35: input on the policy statement topics. So that's a, you know, this engagement is in service to the

[0:22:46] Voice 35: policy statement update as it moves forward. So we want to hear from residents and stakeholders

[0:22:51] Voice 35: about their thoughts on that update. We want to ensure that resident and stakeholder values and

[0:22:58] Voice 35: priorities are heard. And we want to exceed the requirements. So there's currently no legislative

[0:23:04] Voice 35: requirement to engage, but we're committed to engaging as part of this process. So to build

[0:23:12] Voice 35: upon those, we set forth a series of objectives. And really, as we move into phase three, we want

[0:23:19] Voice 35: to be really mindful about what we're doing and why we're doing it and use that to kind of test

[0:23:26] Voice 35: our work as we move forward so really building trust and relationships is a big component of

[0:23:32] Voice 35: this work we want to build on the success of phase one and phase two where we saw you know higher

[0:23:40] Voice 35: touch points engagement touch points than as i said in any other islands trust process and we

[0:23:47] Voice 35: We want to broaden the reach so we want to ensure that we're reaching out to those who

[0:23:51] Voice 35: are more seldom heard in part of as part of processes like these and ensure that we're

[0:23:57] Voice 35: not just capturing the voices of the loudest voices in the room.

[0:24:01] Voice 35: We want the community to feel really proud and included in this process that's incredibly

[0:24:05] Voice 35: important part of this.

[0:24:07] Voice 35: And we need to be very clear about how the input was used throughout this process.

[0:24:12] Voice 35: So this is part of our report back cycle where we gather information and we're very clear about how that was used and set clear expectations about how public engagement will be used as we work through processes like this.

[0:24:30] Voice 35: Another objective is to honor the concurrent First Nations engagement process and the incredible relationship building work that has been done to date.

[0:24:37] Voice 35: so as you will have seen in the process diagram there's a separate concurrent First Nations

[0:24:43] Voice 35: government to government engagement process that has been occurring to date that was not part of

[0:24:49] Voice 35: our scope to look at that but we acknowledge the importance of honoring that as we move forward

[0:24:55] Voice 35: with our public process and then finally three three final objectives we want to ensure that

[0:25:06] Voice 35: the update to the policy statement is meaningful and that includes very strong policy responses to

[0:25:12] Voice 35: what are the key challenges of our time which is to say climate change affordable housing and

[0:25:17] Voice 35: reconciliation so we want to ensure that it's a very strong response um we want to increase

[0:25:23] Voice 35: understanding and awareness of the islands trust its mandate and the role that this document the

[0:25:28] Voice 35: policy statement plays in the governance structure um and the network of policies that impact the

[0:25:33] Voice 35: local trust areas. And an objective is to receive final adoption and public endorsement of the

[0:25:39] Voice 35: policy statement itself. And so then we looked at the engagement principles. So I'm not going to

[0:25:46] Voice 35: read these aloud. These are in the document that you have in front of you. But these were the

[0:25:50] Voice 35: engagement principles that were established at the outset of phase one. And so these are all,

[0:25:56] Voice 35: you know, in terms of our evaluation of the process to date, these are all the right types

[0:26:01] Voice 35: of principles. You know, these are all kind of best practice, industry standard, and should

[0:26:07] Voice 35: certainly be carried forward into phase three. But we proposed an additional five engagement

[0:26:15] Voice 35: principles, which are also included in your document. And I've spoken to these a little bit,

[0:26:21] Voice 35: but the first one is really about broadening the reach. So reaching out to a broader section of

[0:26:26] Voice 35: the community to ensure again that we're not just listening to the loudest voices but that we are

[0:26:32] Voice 35: being inclusive of more diverse perspectives and viewpoints about the future of the islands

[0:26:38] Voice 35: trust areas we want to diversify our methods so you will see within our engagement strategy that

[0:26:43] Voice 35: we recommend methods that have been used thus far and that are familiar within the engagement

[0:26:49] Voice 35: practices of the Islands Trust. However, we propose some small diversifications in order to help

[0:26:56] Voice 35: achieve that broadening the reach. The third one is that our engagement will be well-framed. So we

[0:27:04] Voice 35: want to ensure that the questions that we're asking, that people have all of the information

[0:27:08] Voice 35: that they need in order to answer those from an informed perspective. And so we're going to be

[0:27:14] Voice 35: be using clear and direct language. We're going to avoid jargon. The fourth is closing the loop.

[0:27:21] Voice 35: So as I mentioned, it's incredibly important that we're letting people know how their input is being

[0:27:25] Voice 35: used. And all of this is in service to trust building and relationship building, knowing that

[0:27:30] Voice 35: that's a really incredible, incredibly important outcome of this next phase. And so those objectives

[0:27:38] Voice 35: and those principles are really going to serve as the backbone for phase three. So those are things

[0:27:44] Voice 35: like almost a northern star, things that we can kind of check as we progress through and

[0:27:50] Voice 35: ensure that we are honoring those as we go forward. But it was important before we stepped

[0:27:58] Voice 35: into any sort of recommendations that we also had a clear-headed assessment of the risks for the

[0:28:04] Voice 35: phase that we're going into. And so I've outlined those here and I'll speak to them briefly. I'm

[0:28:10] Voice 35: I'm sure many of you are familiar with them.

[0:28:13] Voice 35: The first of which is staff capacity.

[0:28:16] Voice 35: So Islands Trust staff are really stretched

[0:28:19] Voice 35: and were stretched during phase one and phase two

[0:28:22] Voice 35: in terms of their capacity.

[0:28:24] Voice 35: And so you'll see within our recommendations,

[0:28:26] Voice 35: a recommendation to bring on consultants

[0:28:29] Voice 35: to help with this work,

[0:28:31] Voice 35: to provide focus and clarity to this work

[0:28:34] Voice 35: and help support Islands Trust staff

[0:28:36] Voice 35: to help bring this project

[0:28:38] Voice 35: across the finish line successfully.

[0:28:40] Voice 35: A second risk was identified, which was a compressed timeline.

[0:28:46] Voice 35: So we understood that there was direction towards a first reading in December.

[0:28:51] Voice 35: It was our professional recommendation that that timeline would be incredibly challenging.

[0:28:57] Voice 35: And so, as Claire mentioned, we are, within the three scenarios, suggesting a first reading within the spring of 2022 to allow that additional time for trust building, relationship building, that sort of thing.

[0:29:13] Voice 35: The third risk that was identified was around budget. So bringing on consultants requires additional budget.

[0:29:20] Voice 35: And the budget that was currently allocated for the phase three when we were brought on was low. So that was identified as a risk.

[0:29:29] Voice 35: um we want to be very clear about our expectations in terms of what can be achieved within a

[0:29:35] Voice 35: engagement time frame such as this and a final risk is is around misinformation so

[0:29:42] Voice 35: i had mentioned earlier in the presentation that there was an incredible proliferation

[0:29:47] Voice 35: of information that spread through online forums which islands trust was not a part of

[0:29:54] Voice 35: And so I think it's really important that there's a really strong message and really strong.

[0:30:00] Voice 35: communications about the process as it moves forward, because we don't want to exacerbate or

[0:30:06] Voice 35: extend any misunderstandings about the role of the trust or the purpose of this policy statement.

[0:30:17] Voice 35: And so just a quick note is I would like to introduce the IEP2 spectrum. So the IEP2

[0:30:26] Voice 35: spectrum is a spectrum that is often used within public engagement. IEP2 stands for the

[0:30:33] Voice 35: International Association of Public Participation. It is the framework that was used to inform phase

[0:30:39] Voice 35: one and phase two, and it is the approach to phase three as well. So it's really, it establishes

[0:30:48] Voice 35: core values and a code of ethics for public participation. And you'll see here on the slide

[0:30:55] Voice 35: the spectrum, what is known as the IEP2 spectrum of public participation. And so really what that

[0:31:01] Voice 35: does is it defines the role of the public and it articulates a very clear goal and commitment to

[0:31:07] Voice 35: the public in terms of the engagement activity and how their input will be used. And so at the

[0:31:16] Voice 35: the outset of developing any engagement strategy, we need to make a decision about what level to

[0:31:21] Voice 35: operate at. And to help inform that decision, we need to consider several inputs. So one of which

[0:31:29] Voice 35: is the internal expectation. So how receptive would an internal organization be to input and

[0:31:38] Voice 35: what are the resources available, which is to say the time, the staffing and the money

[0:31:43] Voice 35: that is available we consider what is legally required and then we also consider the expectations

[0:31:51] Voice 35: of the public and their level of interest and how they would be impacted by the process and

[0:31:57] Voice 35: the outcomes of the process so we you see we move from an inform all the way to an empower

[0:32:04] Voice 35: power. And with our understanding of the inputs, which I just outlined, we recommend a level of

[0:32:14] Voice 35: inform and consult for this process moving forward. So you can see that, you know, we're

[0:32:20] Voice 35: making a clear commitment to the public in order to keep them informed about the process and moves

[0:32:24] Voice 35: forward. And we're listening and acknowledging to the concerns of the public about the future of

[0:32:30] Voice 35: the Islands Trust. Yeah, so this slide just outlines that. So I mentioned our IEP2 level

[0:32:41] Voice 35: recommendations. And the document that you have in front of you goes through more extensively

[0:32:48] Voice 35: our recommendations. But at a high level, you know, what we have come to is a recommendations

[0:32:53] Voice 35: for the Islands Trust to be realistic about capacity, bring on the help that they need

[0:32:59] Voice 35: in order to go through the next phase really expand the reach of the engagement so reach out

[0:33:05] Voice 35: to those more seldom heard demographics be very clear on the level of influence for the public

[0:33:12] Voice 35: in terms of the policy statement as it moves forward and the report back be very proactive

[0:33:18] Voice 35: in communication so as engagement opportunities come up share those well in advance share the

[0:33:25] Voice 35: good news stories of this process. There's incredible work being done within this process

[0:33:30] Voice 35: and we do need to share those stories and share that good news. Within phase three,

[0:33:38] Voice 35: we also recommend that, you know, we're emphasizing our shared values. So during phase one and phase

[0:33:44] Voice 35: two, we're really learning about those values and there are a lot of shared values, but we also want

[0:33:48] Voice 35: to encourage people to think outside of their own worldview and be considerate of alternate

[0:33:55] Voice 35: viewpoints. And then we also made recommendations around timeline and budgets. And so one of the

[0:34:04] Voice 35: recommendations that we have is about being clear on the level of influence and being clear on how

[0:34:10] Voice 35: public feedback is being used in this process. And so I wanted to just briefly speak to the

[0:34:17] Voice 35: weave diagram which is included in the document that you have and demonstrate how public input

[0:34:24] Voice 35: is being used. So public input is one of several inputs into the policy statement update. So we're

[0:34:31] Voice 35: considering stakeholder input, public input, technical expertise, input from the First Nations

[0:34:37] Voice 35: engagement process and council direction. So all of that is in service to this so we want to be

[0:34:45] Voice 35: very clear about that as we go forward, that public input is not the only input into this

[0:34:49] Voice 35: update. So in terms of our recommendation, there were three scenarios that were evaluated,

[0:34:59] Voice 35: each of which operated at a different kind of budgetary implication. We developed these three

[0:35:07] Voice 35: scenarios to help weigh the risks and benefits of three different approaches. So the first one is

[0:35:13] Voice 35: really you know a very cost efficient base option um the second is where we begin to broaden the

[0:35:19] Voice 35: reach bring on a consultant an engagement consultant to help um execute over the next three

[0:35:26] Voice 35: um three months or so um and then the third one is really um a more uh intensive where we're

[0:35:33] Voice 35: beginning to expand and really deepen the conversations um and so within each of the

[0:35:39] Voice 35: scenarios that were developed. There's information around proposed budgetary implications,

[0:35:45] Voice 35: the timeline, the resourcing from both an internal staff perspective and a consultant perspective,

[0:35:53] Voice 35: proposed communication activities, engagement activities, and then also an outlining of the

[0:35:58] Voice 35: risks associated with that scenario. And as I mentioned, we're proposing specific methods,

[0:36:05] Voice 35: and you'll see within the document that we're proposing both communications techniques,

[0:36:09] Voice 35: as well as engagement techniques, knowing how important it is that we're being really clear

[0:36:14] Voice 35: in communicating about what we're doing and why we're doing it. And we've heard really clearly

[0:36:20] Voice 35: from the communities that, you know, in addition to more opportunities to consult and the outcome

[0:36:26] Voice 35: of the phases, they really want to be connected to the work as it develops. And so that requires

[0:36:30] Voice 35: very strong communications. We need to be able to communicate effectively and to be able to provide

[0:36:36] Voice 35: the facts and information required to make decisions and this is also in service to two

[0:36:42] Voice 35: of our principles which is to be open authentic to be closing the loop so I just want to speak

[0:36:47] Voice 35: briefly to that so within the second scenario you have both the second and second and third

[0:36:54] Voice 35: within the project charters that have been distributed to you we we're including communications

[0:37:00] Voice 35: and engaged techniques and I've just created here a little bit of a summary slide some of

[0:37:06] Voice 35: these are very familiar you've used these within previous processes and they've worked well

[0:37:11] Voice 35: but we've also proposed additional ones really trying to think about how we can reach the hard

[0:37:18] Voice 35: to reach how we can include youth voices and that sort of thing so I can speak more to these

[0:37:26] Voice 35: afterwards, but I won't spend too much time on them at this moment. Other methods that have come

[0:37:33] Voice 35: up that we know have been requested or, you know, there's been curiosity around is the potential for

[0:37:43] Voice 35: a multi-day, multi-stakeholder workshop. And we have that recommended within scenario three.

[0:37:50] Voice 35: so those are very typically resource intensive events there needs to be very careful consideration

[0:37:59] Voice 35: of the recruitment for the attendance of those workshops so that's why it would be within a

[0:38:05] Voice 35: scenario three there would be need to be more resources behind that we know that there's been

[0:38:11] Voice 35: specific interest around deliberative techniques those also are typically more resource intensive

[0:38:17] Voice 35: So there's the potential for deliberative techniques to be used within the multi-stakeholder workshops.

[0:38:23] Voice 35: That would be more within a scenario three option as opposed to a scenario two option.

[0:38:29] Voice 35: And I did want to just briefly mention, you will have seen within the report that we make a recommendation for a technique that we don't suggest within this process, and that is town halls.

[0:38:41] Voice 35: And we know that those have been used previously within this process, but town halls we don't

[0:38:48] Voice 35: often recommend in processes like this because oftentimes what happens is that someone takes

[0:38:55] Voice 35: the microphone and it becomes a one-sided conversation.

[0:38:59] Voice 35: So we definitely find that there's a very specific power dynamic that takes place within

[0:39:05] Voice 35: in town halls. And we like to utilize techniques that encourage everyone to be able to speak and

[0:39:14] Voice 35: everyone to be respectful of one another's voices. So that's why we have included that specifically

[0:39:19] Voice 35: as something that, you know, we can try different techniques as we move forward for phase three

[0:39:24] Voice 35: here. And very briefly, I did want to speak to digital techniques. So we know this has been

[0:39:32] Voice 35: an incredibly unprecedented unprecedented past couple of years we've had to move towards digital

[0:39:38] Voice 35: engagement and I did want to say you know in our professional practice we have been finding that

[0:39:44] Voice 35: digital techniques have in fact increased accessibility to engagement for processes like

[0:39:52] Voice 35: this because you have people who can drop in they don't need to worry about child care don't need to

[0:39:58] Voice 35: worry about travel and they can join in and participate. We acknowledge that there are

[0:40:05] Voice 35: challenges with digital engagement especially within the context of the Islands Trust areas

[0:40:10] Voice 35: but I think with the uncertainty that we are at with COVID and I just want to

[0:40:20] Voice 35: kind of share our experience about digital increasing accessibility and we've actually

[0:40:27] Voice 35: seeing much higher touch points on some of our processes through the utilization of digital

[0:40:32] Voice 35: techniques as opposed to in person. So very my last slide and then we'll open it up to questions.

[0:40:40] Voice 35: I know this has been a lot of information and a lot of talking. We also make the recommendation

[0:40:46] Voice 35: that there should be a strong evaluation process for phase three as it comes to a close.

[0:40:52] Voice 35: Evaluation is an incredibly important part of any engagement process. So we want to understand you

[0:40:57] Voice 35: you know, not only the number of folks that we reached, but we want to understand the representation.

[0:41:03] Voice 35: Were we able to reach those harder to reach folks? Do we have broad representation? Are people

[0:41:10] Voice 35: satisfied with the opportunities? And are we able to use the input that we've received?

[0:41:17] Voice 35: And all of this helps us understand and helps the Islands Trust understand going forward,

[0:41:22] Voice 35: how to continually improve these engagement processes and so this needs to be built into

[0:41:30] Voice 35: to the project an evaluation and and I will say that for any engagement process

[0:41:38] Voice 35: we do need to constantly be kind of evaluating whether things are working and recalibrating as

[0:41:44] Voice 35: we move forward so that is not uncommon within engagement practice to to be doing that continual

[0:41:49] Voice 35: evaluation. So I will leave it there. That's kind of a very high level overview of the work that has

[0:41:57] Voice 35: been done to date and I can take any questions that have arisen. I see already that there is

[0:42:03] Voice 35: a hand up with Trustee Scott.

[0:42:06] Voice 12: Back to the chair probably.

[0:42:09] Trustee Luckham: Well thank you very much Molly for

[0:42:11] Trustee Luckham: your presentation and thank you very much to your company and your team for rising to this challenge

[0:42:19] Trustee Luckham: and in short order to and answered our call for help to think and understand how we might move

[0:42:26] Trustee Luckham: forward with this project. And thank you very, very much for the report. So let us see if there

[0:42:32] Trustee Luckham: are questions on the recommendations here. And there is, of course, a request for decision

[0:42:39] Trustee Luckham: contained in this package. So let's just see questions from trustees. So if you can raise

[0:42:45] Trustee Luckham: your digital hands and either you know the ceo or claire or uh or um molly uh hopefully can

[0:42:53] Trustee Luckham: answer some of your questions my screen has gone weird for some reason um i've got trustee scott

[0:42:59] Trustee Luckham: okay trustee let's go with trustee scott while i get my screen sorted out here

[0:43:05] Voice 41: thank you molly it's very interesting uh presentation we've done very well done

[0:43:10] Voice 41: My question is on page 25. I noticed the stakeholders for input here once in my mind

[0:43:19] Voice 41: would be missing it's the local trust committees because one way to get to the Hornbyites is through

[0:43:24] Voice 41: the LTC because we are you know the trustees of Hornby are well connected with the community and

[0:43:32] Voice 41: if this thing gets put out to the community at large they're going to come back to us and start

[0:43:35] Voice 41: asking us what's this all about so I just think it should be on there you've got that council on

[0:43:41] Voice 41: there but I think the LTCs would be an important part of the public engagement how do you get the

[0:43:46] Voice 41: Hornby ice thank you so Molly

[0:43:50] Trustee Luckham: can you answer that

[0:43:51] Trustee Luckham: question about how we're going to engage with the

[0:43:53] Trustee Luckham: LTCs

[0:43:54] Voice 35: absolutely so thank you for that comment within the audiences that are included within

[0:44:01] Voice 35: in those pages that's really kind of a first cut at who should be included when the engagement

[0:44:07] Voice 35: consultant comes on for phase three there will be a refinement of that stakeholder mapping so I think

[0:44:14] Voice 35: certainly to your point local trust committees are an incredibly important part of this process

[0:44:18] Voice 35: so we can make that more clear with on on page 25 to to include them okay

[0:44:25] Voice 41: just a slight follow-up

[0:44:27] Voice 41: because I know a lot of the comments you're getting from the public out there right now and

[0:44:31] Voice 41: I you might have it I don't know class that is misinformation but people could see this as

[0:44:37] Voice 41: control being taken by the council rather than by the local community so I think you just have

[0:44:41] Voice 41: to be careful going forward with that thank you thank

[0:44:45] Trustee Luckham: you trustee Scott so trustee Bishaykin

[0:44:48] Trustee Luckham: thank you

[0:44:51] Trustee Busheikin: and thanks for the uh really uh very well done uh report in such short notice very

[0:44:59] Trustee Busheikin: impressive um i have two questions but maybe i'll start with one and see if there's time for the

[0:45:03] Trustee Busheikin: other one after everyone else has had a question so um we've had um over the last month or two

[0:45:09] Trustee Busheikin: some islands have had meetings and some i think community members and community groups have been

[0:45:16] Trustee Busheikin: reviewing the draft so far and I think some islands haven't and I'm like I'm just curious

[0:45:23] Trustee Busheikin: how that folds into all the consultation and that it's not um framed or supported by some of the

[0:45:32] Trustee Busheikin: work that I think we can anticipate doing and uh is perhaps not coming from uh that the people

[0:45:39] Trustee Busheikin: given the input haven't had the benefit of the type of information and framing and recording

[0:45:46] Trustee Busheikin: of their input that I think we will be moving into. So what will, I guess my question to summarize is

[0:45:52] Trustee Busheikin: what the input that's coming in or has come in over the last couple of months, how will that be

[0:45:59] Trustee Busheikin: brought in and what role will that play?

[0:46:03] Voice 35: It's a very good question. And I think that,

[0:46:06] Voice 35: You know, there's been the referrals process and then there has been these more grassroots responses to the engagement process. So the referrals process certainly is being integrated and considered as the policy statement moves forward and I hope that that's clear in the document.

[0:46:22] Voice 35: document. I'll answer your question because I believe it's more around these grassroots

[0:46:27] Voice 35: initiatives that have popped up around public engagement. And I think the first thing to be

[0:46:32] Voice 35: considerate of is why these have popped up. And I think that there has been, you know, a real

[0:46:38] Voice 35: keenness to understand about the next steps and what a phase three might look like. So I think

[0:46:44] Voice 35: that proactive communications, just to be, you know, to underline that, that's so important to

[0:46:49] Voice 35: to say, okay, here's where we're at in the process, here are going to be the opportunities as we move

[0:46:54] Voice 35: forward to meaningfully participate, and here's how your input is going to be used. But I think

[0:46:59] Voice 35: because these grassroots initiatives have sprung up, you know, there should be some

[0:47:07] Voice 35: reaching out to those groups and effort to include that feedback, because it's really great to have

[0:47:13] Voice 35: such an engaged and passionate group of people who are coming together and care so deeply about

[0:47:19] Voice 35: the islands trust area um and we we want to integrate those conversations most certainly

[0:47:24] Voice 35: but i think to your point around um ensuring that the questions that are being asked and those

[0:47:30] Voice 35: conversations are being contextualized within accurate information around the islands trust

[0:47:35] Voice 35: their scope and the purpose of this policy statement so again within the audiences that

[0:47:41] Voice 35: are mapped you know there's some community organizations and that sort of thing i think

[0:47:45] Voice 35: I think I'll just reiterate the importance of reviewing that at the outset of phase three to ensure that there's integration of any sort of organizations or grassroots groups that have popped up over, you know, even within the last couple of weeks, I'm sure that there's been movement on that. So that's something that will need to be continually reviewed and revised.

[0:48:11] Trustee Luckham: Thank you. Trustee Grove, Salt Spring Island.

[0:48:15] Trustee Grove: Thank you very much, Molly. At the beginning of your presentation, you talked about budget and

[0:48:19] Trustee Grove: you said our original budget was not adequate. What do you think of our proposed budget?

[0:48:27] Voice 35: Yes, it's a good question. So what we've looked at is, as I said, the three scenarios.

[0:48:32] Voice 35: So we understood one to be kind of, you know, the baseline options, scenario one. We don't recommend

[0:48:39] Voice 35: in that uh well you can see within the risk section that there is considerable risk to moving

[0:48:46] Voice 35: forward with that in order to move forward and achieve some of the objectives and principles

[0:48:51] Voice 35: that we've um set forth for phase three there does need to be additional budget brought forward to

[0:48:58] Voice 35: that and so what we've provided is an understanding of you know ballpark costing to bring on a

[0:49:04] Voice 35: consultant, an engagement consultant for phase three, who can help support some of the engagement

[0:49:10] Voice 35: events. Now within scenario three, that engagement consultant could have budget to support for

[0:49:18] Voice 35: a majority of events. And there's also the provision for the procurement of a communications

[0:49:25] Voice 35: consultant, which as you will have seen, that's a pretty common thread throughout this presentation,

[0:49:31] Voice 35: the importance of clear communications and that requires a lot of resources and so you know I

[0:49:38] Voice 35: think certainly sorry scenario three enables the most help to accomplish the objectives for

[0:49:48] Voice 35: this phase three of the island's 2050 engagement process.

[0:49:53] Trustee Grove: Thank you and if I may just add the

[0:49:55] Trustee Grove: issue of misinformation and maybe you've just answered it in terms of that budget I mean the

[0:50:00] Trustee Grove: misinformation on social media which has a two-edged sword as we all know is very difficult

[0:50:05] Trustee Grove: to deal with and so how do you propose that be dealt with

[0:50:08] Voice 35: yeah that's an incredible challenge

[0:50:11] Voice 35: and I would not recommend that islands trust weighed into individual responses I think this

[0:50:19] Voice 35: notion of proactive communications can be very helpful in terms of ensuring that the correct

[0:50:27] Voice 35: messaging is out there. And so it may be that, you know, there's FAQ sheets that are developed

[0:50:34] Voice 35: or sheets that are developed on topics that are commonly being discussed within the social media

[0:50:40] Voice 35: forums that can be posted to say, you know, here are some very important facts to consider as

[0:50:48] Voice 35: you're discussing or considering this topic. And I think that to have a communications consultant

[0:50:56] Voice 35: consultant help prepare those can be can be very helpful um there is a lot of misinformation or

[0:51:03] Voice 35: information spreading within forums that the islands trust is not privy to um and so again

[0:51:09] Voice 35: that's just about being very you know you can't islands trust can't wade into that um but they

[0:51:15] Voice 35: can ensure that the right information is very easily and readily accessible to those who are

[0:51:20] Voice 35: keen to learn about that. I hope that's helpful. Thank

[0:51:26] Trustee Grove: you. Yes, it is.

[0:51:27] Trustee Luckham: Thank you. Trustee Stamford,

[0:51:29] Trustee Luckham: Gambier Island.

[0:51:31] Trustee Stamford: Yes, thank you. I think this follows some of the challenges from that

[0:51:36] Trustee Stamford: Trustee Grove just described. How do we acknowledge such competing interests? So even

[0:51:45] Trustee Stamford: Even yesterday evening, we heard very strong, informed views on logging and forestry and tree cutting on completely opposite sides of the spectrum.

[0:51:59] Trustee Stamford: And how do we go forward with this process, listening and engaging and allowing people to feel that they are engaged without necessarily taking on their view?

[0:52:13] Trustee Stamford: you um and yet still maintain their support that's the part i've always had trouble with

[0:52:20] Trustee Stamford: when we're going through this process well

[0:52:23] Voice 35: i will say and i hope that this answers your question

[0:52:27] Voice 35: let me know if it doesn't but i will say that the objective of an engagement process is not

[0:52:32] Voice 35: consensus it's to move forward and explain um you know to go back to the weave diagram

[0:52:40] Voice 35: ground um there are many inputs into this process um one of which is public input uh and from what

[0:52:47] Voice 35: i'm hearing from you that there's a high degree of technical expertise and and knowledge coming

[0:52:53] Voice 35: uh forward in these discussions and so i think that uh you know we need to listen to to those

[0:53:00] Voice 35: informed um positions and those informed um considerations and and weigh that as we move

[0:53:08] Voice 35: move forward against other, other inputs. So, you know, if there is, in fact, a reason why we can't

[0:53:14] Voice 35: do something, that needs to just be very clearly explained in terms of, you know, why that is,

[0:53:21] Voice 35: and what what input that is. Yeah, I'm not sure I hope I'm hopeful that that's answering your

[0:53:28] Voice 35: question. But we're not, we're not, we're not moving towards consensus, we are listening to

[0:53:35] Voice 35: people listening to their diverse perspectives informed as they are and and trying to understand

[0:53:43] Voice 35: aspirations for the islands trust within the context of of these multiple inputs thank you

[0:53:50] Trustee Stamford: i think using the word we're not looking for consensus is the very helpful starting point

[0:54:03] Voice 35: sorry you cut out a little bit there

[0:54:04] Trustee Luckham: yeah we're losing your signal there

[0:54:11] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, I think you've lost me.

[0:54:13] Trustee Luckham: Here we have.

[0:54:15] Trustee Luckham: If that's all right, I'm going to move on to the other remaining trustees and cognizant of the time, because we need to debate a recommendation as well as one other additional business item.

[0:54:28] Trustee Luckham: But Trustee Wolverton, over to you.

[0:54:31] Voice 28: Mine is just a comment.

[0:54:33] Voice 28: Thank you, Molly, for your presentation.

[0:54:35] Voice 28: and i i believe for the the trust this is an incredible opportunity to uh to engage and to

[0:54:44] Voice 28: educate uh we have a lot of interest in the policy statement and i i think there also have been a lot

[0:54:51] Voice 28: of misunderstandings and so i think i think this is a huge opportunity uh to talk about what the

[0:55:00] Voice 28: trust is and what it means to live in a trust area and I and I like the idea of having some

[0:55:09] Voice 28: in-depth discussions on the priority items and and really really going deep in those. Thank you.

[0:55:17] Trustee Luckham: Thank you Trustee Wilberton. Trustee Brent. Hi

[0:55:22] Voice 5: I'd like to go back to page 25

[0:55:26] Voice 5: which talks about principally i'll quote from it there is currently an expectation that public

[0:55:34] Voice 5: input is the major determining factor in the policy statement update needs to be clearly

[0:55:39] Voice 5: communicated that this is one of several inputs and you talk about working groups but that's not

[0:55:44] Voice 5: shown in the graphic the islands trust mandate that's not shown in the graphic first nations

[0:55:50] Voice 5: input and technical analysis those two are shown in the graphic and so what I wonder about is when

[0:55:57] Voice 5: we're looking at something like foundational like the policy statement where do we put our weights

[0:56:04] Voice 5: and who has is anyone determining weight like what weight do we have for public input I note that

[0:56:10] Voice 5: the object says we preserve and protect for the benefit of residents and all British Columbians

[0:56:15] Voice 5: generally so you know i think this is going to be a challenge communicating to the public just how

[0:56:22] Voice 5: much their input is valued or not or just how much weight we give it and who's going to determine

[0:56:29] Voice 5: that i think i think that's kind of a critical question and that

[0:56:34] Voice 5: might be for for for other than

[0:56:36] Voice 5: molly clearly

[0:56:37] Trustee Luckham: appreciate molly chiming in on that that's a great question paul

[0:56:42] Voice 35: yes thank you for

[0:56:44] Voice 35: that question uh to address the question around the graphic first this is a graphic that we use

[0:56:49] Voice 35: within you know some of our engagement strategies so um acknowledging that there's unique um inputs

[0:56:56] Voice 35: and specificity for the irons trust that's not captured here and that's i think why we included

[0:57:01] Voice 35: in the text to to be clear about that um in terms of how we determine weight um that is an incredibly

[0:57:11] Voice 35: incredibly important consideration and when we're being clear to the public and making our clear

[0:57:17] Voice 35: commitment to them as part of the IEP2 uh you know spectrum it's it's important to be clear

[0:57:24] Voice 35: about that level of weight and where within the weave diagram public input um sits and I think

[0:57:31] Voice 35: that that is something that needs to be considered and clearly articulated and identified from the

[0:57:36] Voice 35: Islands Trust side of things as you bring on a communications and engagement consultant for the

[0:57:43] Voice 35: next phase about what is the promise to the public in terms of how their input will be used

[0:57:49] Voice 35: so thank you for bringing that up I don't have the answer for that it is one of several inputs

[0:57:54] Voice 35: as we've identified here but yeah that promise needs to be clearly articulated I would say

[0:58:02] Trustee Luckham: Thank you. Now, Trustee Buscega, I see you have a hand up a second time. I'm going to go to Trustee

[0:58:08] Trustee Luckham: Kael and the other speakers. Timing is always a challenge for me, and so I can't commit that

[0:58:19] Trustee Luckham: we might come back to you, but let's go with Trustee Kael.

[0:58:23] Voice 39: Molly, good morning and thank you.

[0:58:25] Voice 39: Molly, I'm going to ask to help you if you can explain something to me, because I know I'm going

[0:58:31] Voice 39: to have to explain it in turn we've talked about modus working with island trust on on the trust

[0:58:40] Voice 39: policy statement and in some respect we've referred to modus correctly or incorrectly

[0:58:46] Voice 39: as consultants working with islands trust we're now making frequent reference to a engagement

[0:58:54] Voice 39: engagement consultant. So we now have a scenario where some people would say, well, we have a

[0:59:00] Voice 39: consultant and the consultant is now going to engage a consultant. This, as you can appreciate,

[0:59:08] Voice 39: Malay, will probably in some areas get a somewhat cynical response. And I'm wondering if you can

[0:59:15] Voice 39: help how I might better explain the relationship of now what looks like or has the potential of

[0:59:22] Voice 39: being tiered consultancy at at very considerable costs potentially working with islands trust

[0:59:29] Voice 39: yes

[0:59:31] Voice 35: absolutely i can offer clarity to that and apologies for not having been more clear

[0:59:35] Voice 35: about that modus was brought on for a very specific scope which was to review the phase

[0:59:40] Voice 35: one and phase two engagement process and outcomes and create a strategy going forward for phase three

[0:59:48] Voice 35: once we've delivered that strategy our scope has completed so we were we will um we will

[0:59:55] Voice 35: the document has been handed over i finished today's presentation and our scope is

[1:00:00] Voice 35: is complete for the work that we've been brought on for thus far so as we're developing a strategy

[1:00:05] Voice 35: to go forward into phase three we're making a recommendation that an engagement consultant be

[1:00:10] Voice 35: brought on to to help um with some of the capacity issues that were identified within the risk

[1:00:15] Voice 35: section there's a procurement process that the islands trust will need to go through um and

[1:00:21] Voice 35: And perhaps Claire can speak more to that.

[1:00:25] Voice 35: But we are not necessarily going to be working on that scope as we move forward.

[1:00:32] Voice 35: As I said, what we were brought on to do has now wrapped.

[1:00:36] Trustee Luckham: I'd like to

[1:00:37] Trustee Luckham: ask the CAO to speak to the procurement process and the steps forward here.

[1:00:41] Voice 12: Well, indeed, that's the case.

[1:00:44] Voice 12: So we've contracted with MODIS to provide what you have in front of you.

[1:00:48] Voice 12: and that is an analysis of where we've been and opportunities moving forward and some options for

[1:00:53] Voice 12: a strategy or plan to address the concerns of trust council and to support the project

[1:00:59] Voice 12: and anything any depending upon the the direction that trust council wants to go we would then go

[1:01:05] Voice 12: through whatever public procurement process is required to engage a consultant if that's the

[1:01:10] Voice 12: direction of trust council if you pick version one there won't be a need for that if you pick

[1:01:16] Voice 12: version two there will be somewhat of a need and if you pick version three there will be a

[1:01:19] Voice 12: significant need and that would just go through the regular process he says anything as any other

[1:01:25] Voice 12: process would um that's not to say a modus may or may not compete for that project in the future

[1:01:30] Voice 12: um i'm not sure but uh our our engagement ends with the work that you've been presented with

[1:01:36] Voice 12: today right

[1:01:37] Trustee Luckham: thank you thank you for the question trustee mcconkey um the next speaker thanks for

[1:01:44] Trustee McConchie: representation molly molly uh back in a couple years ago and when reporting on the island's 2050

[1:01:49] Trustee McConchie: engagement our cao referred to it as one of the greatest achievements in the history of the

[1:01:54] Trustee McConchie: island's trust in your professional opinion what do you think happened between the engagement

[1:02:00] Trustee McConchie: process of phase one and two what were the failures of staff in this engagement process

[1:02:05] Trustee McConchie: and what have you learned from that experience in order to let's

[1:02:08] Trustee Luckham: be careful about our language

[1:02:10] Trustee Luckham: there uh trustee mcconkey well

[1:02:13] Trustee McConchie: sorry chair luck and we're asking for we've already spent hundreds

[1:02:16] Trustee McConchie: of thousands of dollars on consultation we're asking taxpayers to pay for tens of thousands

[1:02:21] Trustee McConchie: of more dollars so i'm asking she she's reviewed phase one and phase two so i'm asking for her

[1:02:27] Trustee McConchie: professional opinion on what went wrong and why we're at this point where we have to hire a

[1:02:31] Trustee McConchie: consultant there should be a logical justification for that simple question i

[1:02:36] Voice 12: agree also mr chair

[1:02:38] Voice 12: that's a mischaracterization of what i've said and i just want to be clear about that please

[1:02:44] Voice 12: i did not say that this was the greatest achievement i said this is one of the

[1:02:47] Voice 12: greatest undertakings um that the islands trust has done in some 20 years in reaching out in a

[1:02:55] Voice 12: variety of different modes and opportunities to discuss with community obviously we hadn't had our

[1:03:01] Voice 12: results yet so it's not a question of achievement it was a question of undertaking thank you sir

[1:03:08] Voice 12: and

[1:03:09] Trustee McConchie: thank you um can i can i clarify we have a facebook live video of your comments

[1:03:14] Trustee McConchie: cao i can send them to you thank you

[1:03:16] Trustee Luckham: um now i think there was a question in there about

[1:03:25] Trustee Luckham: uh that molly i'm hoping you track that and just

[1:03:28] Trustee McConchie: to reiterate my my question thank you you're based

[1:03:31] Trustee McConchie: on your analysis of phase one and two which was part of what you've done so far what were the

[1:03:36] Trustee McConchie: the failures of staff, sorry, a different word.

[1:03:40] Trustee McConchie: How can we

[1:03:40] Trustee McConchie: improve as, I'm not sure how to ask the question

[1:03:43] Trustee McConchie: because Chair Locke,

[1:03:44] Voice 35: we're at this point where we're at.

[1:03:46] Trustee McConchie: You

[1:03:46] Voice 35: understand the question?

[1:03:47] Voice 35: Thank you.

[1:03:47] Trustee McConchie: I

[1:03:47] Voice 35: understand what you're asking.

[1:03:49] Voice 35: So I think to summarize, you would like to know the ways

[1:03:53] Voice 35: in which phase three can be improved

[1:03:56] Voice 35: and where there were opportunities for improvement

[1:04:00] Voice 35: within phase one and phase two.

[1:04:01] Voice 35: And I will reiterate, you know,

[1:04:04] Voice 35: this is an incredibly complex engagement process. There's a very unique circumstance here with the

[1:04:10] Voice 35: Islands Trust in terms of geography, constituent makeup, the mandate itself, and so it's not an

[1:04:18] Voice 35: easy engagement process to undertake. And as I identified within the first couple of slides,

[1:04:25] Voice 35: there were successes with phase one and phase two, and the right type of approach

[1:04:33] Voice 35: in terms of the engagement design. There were more touch points, engagement touch points than

[1:04:41] Voice 35: any other Islands Trust process to date. So those are things that the Islands Trust can be proud of.

[1:04:47] Voice 35: In terms of where there's opportunities for improvement, as I mentioned, one thing that we identified was that there were preliminary discussions around values, around aspirations, around the future of the Islands Trust area.

[1:05:05] Voice 35: and then in terms of communicating back to the public about how those inputs and how that

[1:05:14] Voice 35: understanding informed the policy statement draft itself there was a missing communications link

[1:05:20] Voice 35: there and so that could have been more clearly messaged to say okay we had this fantastic

[1:05:26] Voice 35: conversation where we learned so much from you our constituents about what you value what you

[1:05:31] Voice 35: you cherish about this area. And here's how that has influenced where we're at now. And here's the

[1:05:38] Voice 35: other inputs that we considered as we were moving through this policy statement update. And that's

[1:05:44] Voice 35: where we've landed, or sorry, that's why we've landed where we've landed. And so I think that's

[1:05:50] Voice 35: the most significant one. And I think that we've been clear in our recommendations about how that

[1:05:54] Voice 35: might be rectified and I think that it's clear that there's a resourcing need to do that well

[1:06:02] Voice 35: and to create a point of comparison for regional scale projects like this you know we can

[1:06:10] Voice 35: we can speak from past experience that oftentimes there's a team of dedicated staff working on

[1:06:19] Voice 35: projects like this with sole focus on this regional scale engagement process. So the task

[1:06:27] Voice 35: at hand for Islands Trust staff has been incredibly large as one of many projects that they're

[1:06:37] Voice 35: balancing.

[1:06:39] Trustee Luckham: Thank you for the answer there. Thank you, Ben. Trustee Johnson, over to you for your

[1:06:45] Trustee Luckham: question. Thank you.

[1:06:48] Voice 9: It seems to me that the recommendations are overly weighted to inform

[1:06:54] Voice 9: in the engagement techniques. I'm not sure what it's called in the page 30s. Seven of them are

[1:07:02] Voice 9: informed. Two are inform and consult, and only two are simply consult. And I want to

[1:07:12] Voice 9: share my own view that what we really need to do is for trustees and staff to engage with

[1:07:19] Voice 9: the public. I think that there's a suspicion of the trust generally. It's low level in most people,

[1:07:27] Voice 9: but if we come out with consultants and other people to run the procedure, it won't look very

[1:07:34] Voice 9: very good. I think that we should have back when there was opposition and misinformation

[1:07:43] Voice 9: and questions people were writing to us, Premier, Minister, that would have been the time and now

[1:07:50] Voice 9: is the time to just hold public meetings on each of the islands, either on the island in person or

[1:07:56] Voice 9: or electronically, or ideally both,

[1:07:59] Voice 9: and hear what people have to say.

[1:08:01] Voice 9: I understand the things that can go wrong

[1:08:06] Voice 9: with a town hall meeting,

[1:08:07] Voice 9: but if it's set up such that we want everybody

[1:08:10] Voice 9: to have a chance to speak and we're honestly listening,

[1:08:15] Voice 9: I think that they work best.

[1:08:17] Voice 9: I think the rest is, a lot of this is sort of public

[1:08:22] Voice 9: relations and it doesn't look good to me.

[1:08:24] Voice 9: me. I don't think it'll look good to the public. Thank you, Trustee

[1:08:29] Trustee Luckham: Johnson. Trustee Fenton?

[1:08:36] Trustee Fenton: Unmute. Thank you. Keith, thank you very much for this presentation. Your insightful guidance

[1:08:47] Trustee Fenton: on this problem was good. It's one of these things, once it sort of got out of control,

[1:08:57] Trustee Fenton: is very difficult when you've got only so much resources available to you to actually get

[1:09:04] Trustee Fenton: things done as well as continue working forward on the project itself we're trying to

[1:09:09] Trustee Fenton: time constraints one of the comments came up last night in the delegations and town hall portion was

[1:09:19] Trustee Fenton: the request to go to option three as presented in their opinion to meet the level of engagement

[1:09:28] Trustee Fenton: needed and I was just looking for your insight do you agree with this sort of opinion or is there a

[1:09:34] Trustee Fenton: compromise between options two and three or is that too difficult to say at this point in time

[1:09:41] Voice 35: thank you for your question so within the scenarios that we developed from a pure engagement

[1:09:48] Voice 35: perspective from a relationship building from a trust building perspective scenario three has the

[1:09:55] Voice 35: least risk having that extra resources having those extra resources at hand over a timeline

[1:10:04] Voice 35: towards a first reading in in spring I think certainly can present the best outcomes we

[1:10:12] Voice 35: We understood with budgetary considerations that scenario two might be the more feasible option.

[1:10:18] Voice 35: So my understanding is that there is the opportunity to blend a scenario two and a

[1:10:26] Voice 35: scenario three option. And that's subject to discussion today. So I'm hopeful that that

[1:10:36] Voice 35: answers your question. I think scenario three will present the best outcomes. But there is

[1:10:40] Voice 35: the possibility to kind of make a blend of scenario two and scenario three okay

[1:10:46] Trustee Luckham: thank you thank you

[1:10:48] Trustee Luckham: trustee finn i'm trying to keep track of where i am if you can lower your hands if you've spoken

[1:10:53] Trustee Luckham: it'd be great so trustee morrison chair of just programs committee over to you thank

[1:10:57] Trustee Morrison: you um thank

[1:10:59] Trustee Morrison: you very much for the report it was actually extremely helpful just to focus the conversation

[1:11:03] Trustee Morrison: and and think about how um we can expand and improve um community consultation so i have a

[1:11:11] Trustee Morrison: question um and i also have a couple quick comments um i think in terms of some of the

[1:11:17] Trustee Morrison: things the other trustees have said in terms of how we weigh the different forms of input so that

[1:11:23] Trustee Morrison: to trustee brent's point um that is actually our job as elected officials to think about the weight

[1:11:30] Trustee Morrison: of each form of input and how we understand that and rationalize it and be clear on it with our

[1:11:34] Trustee Morrison: constituents. And at the same time, we are actually beholden in the Islands Trust Act,

[1:11:42] Trustee Morrison: not only to local government, that's the Local Government Act, but to the broader principles

[1:11:48] Trustee Morrison: inside the Islands Trust Act. So in Trust Council, in this space that we're currently in,

[1:11:53] Trustee Morrison: we're actually um sort of moved to act for the broader trust mandate and that is a challenge

[1:12:03] Trustee Morrison: for us because we are also beholden to our local communities and our local trust programs areas

[1:12:08] Trustee Morrison: so a challenge for all of us and something we need to work on and think about um in terms of

[1:12:14] Trustee Morrison: the question that i have um and i i do want to also name that i'm ready to move a motion whenever

[1:12:20] Trustee Morrison: that's appropriate but in terms of the question that i have i want to understand what you think

[1:12:26] Trustee Morrison: we need to do um to ensure there there's accurate understanding about particular trust program

[1:12:35] Trustee Morrison: top statement topics um or sorry trust policy statement topics so for instance we know that

[1:12:44] Trustee Morrison: desalinization, docs, and I know there was one other one, are challenging issues inside the

[1:12:50] Trustee Morrison: conversation right now. And what is the strategy to ensure that communication specialists are

[1:12:57] Trustee Morrison: actually having the scientific information and that it is not just somebody's opinion,

[1:13:03] Trustee Morrison: but that it is grounded in science? What would that look like?

[1:13:07] Voice 35: That's a great question. And I think that that speaks to the need for internal staff resources

[1:13:12] Voice 35: and focus on this because you know it would be very challenging to find a communications

[1:13:19] Voice 35: consultant who can speak from that sort of technical background on all the complexity

[1:13:23] Voice 35: of issues that face the island's trust and that are being considered as part of the policy

[1:13:28] Voice 35: statement update so whomever that is would work from the strategic standpoint of thinking about

[1:13:36] Voice 35: about where messaging needs to be, how best to disseminate that, and would need to work with

[1:13:42] Voice 35: staff or someone who has that technical background and understanding and neutrality

[1:13:49] Voice 35: to develop the communications piece itself. And so that's why, and I haven't said this clearly

[1:13:56] Voice 35: or explicitly in this presentation, but that's why within all three scenarios, there's the

[1:14:02] Voice 35: a recommendation that there be a dedicated full-time Islands Trust staff person to this

[1:14:07] Voice 35: project. There does need to be that internal resourcing to ensure that the messaging and

[1:14:13] Voice 35: the writing, the question development are all coming from a really well-informed place.

[1:14:20] Voice 35: And no matter how quick and efficient your consultants are, there is going to be

[1:14:26] Voice 35: uh um you know a period of getting up to speed um and and that uh that person will need to be

[1:14:33] Voice 35: working with um islands trust staff um thank

[1:14:39] Trustee Luckham: you thank you molly um and um i have uh two

[1:14:44] Trustee Luckham: more speakers trustee longer ace and trustee be shaken a second time and then your offer of a

[1:14:49] Trustee Luckham: motion uh trustee marston i heard that and would be happy to receive that after the next two

[1:14:54] Trustee Luckham: speakers. I'm not sure how long that debate might take, but cognizant of time and that

[1:15:00] Trustee Luckham: we have a break scheduled at 1030, we have another presentation at 1045. It may be that

[1:15:06] Trustee Luckham: this may continue later on today. But nonetheless, let's go with the last two speakers. Trustee

[1:15:12] Trustee Luckham: Lange-Reis and then Boushekin.

[1:15:14] Voice 37: Okay. Yeah. Thank you for your presentation. It was very interesting. So what I'm sensing

[1:15:20] Voice 37: thing then with the versions three and two is that there'd be less staff involvement to what

[1:15:26] Voice 37: extent is a drop in staff involvement is it just attending some of the sessions on island sessions

[1:15:34] Voice 37: that seems to be the main difference between it because you're going to have to work with staff

[1:15:40] Voice 37: on the whoever does it the material that's going to go out and so i'm not sure how much of a

[1:15:47] Voice 37: reduction other than actual physical presence uh occurs with phase three yes

[1:15:55] Voice 35: so i i think what i'm

[1:15:57] Voice 35: if i'm understanding you correctly the question is around level of staff involvement and the

[1:16:01] Voice 35: difference between scenario two

[1:16:02] Voice 33: and three i

[1:16:03] Voice 35: don't know actually that there is going to be a reduction

[1:16:06] Voice 35: in terms of staff involvement for scenario three um the advantage of scenario three is that you

[1:16:13] Voice 35: You have more consultant time to help facilitate some of these in-person events.

[1:16:21] Voice 35: You have the inclusion of a technique that, like the workshop, to be clear, that has the

[1:16:30] Voice 35: potential to incorporate deliberative techniques, which are techniques that have been of interest

[1:16:36] Voice 35: within this process.

[1:16:39] Voice 35: And you also have the provision of a communications consultant, which is not within scenario two to help, you know, really ensure that there's proactive communications, that it's in the right place, that that's being approached from a very strategic perspective.

[1:16:54] Voice 35: So to, in summary, there is not a significant reduction of staff involvement for scenarios.

[1:17:01] Voice 37: okay okay thank you one other uh point i just wanted to make is that i do like the idea of the

[1:17:08] Voice 37: deliberative approach to things you know group discussions uh some of the other items the pop-up

[1:17:15] Voice 37: uh sessions or whatever i'm not certain how effective that is necessarily it disseminates

[1:17:23] Voice 37: information but in a setting of whatever setting it is where there's an activity going on and

[1:17:31] Voice 37: you're there on the ferry say for instance it's not focused it's just sort of it's really much

[1:17:37] Voice 37: more information giving and so i'm not that keen on that part of it i would rather see more dialogue

[1:17:41] Voice 37: and one of the challenges in preparing the information that's going to be disseminated

[1:17:48] Voice 37: is the differing views on trust council on what the trust actually is and who we are and

[1:17:54] Voice 37: and what does our role, the federated approach

[1:18:00] Voice 37: versus the local autonomy of the islands.

[1:18:04] Voice 37: So there's a number of issues

[1:18:05] Voice 37: that are gonna be a challenge in whatever is presented

[1:18:08] Voice 37: and will we all be on the same song sheet?

[1:18:12] Voice 37: Maybe outwardly, but inwardly, not necessarily.

[1:18:16] Voice 37: And that will be a challenge.

[1:18:19] Voice 15: Thank you, Trustee Longer.

[1:18:21] Voice 37: right so

[1:18:21] Trustee Luckham: the last word uh to trust you be shaken and then i'd like to go to uh chair tbc morrison

[1:18:29] Trustee Luckham: to advance a motion thank

[1:18:32] Trustee Busheikin: you so um my question is about the town halls and i fully understand

[1:18:38] Trustee Busheikin: all the reasons that they aren't recommended and that uh different techniques that are more

[1:18:46] Trustee Busheikin: more deliberative, but also more inclusive ultimately are recommended instead. And I

[1:18:52] Trustee Busheikin: like that. But what my experience is, and I'm sure I'm not alone, is when we try and move away from

[1:18:58] Trustee Busheikin: town halls on our islands, there's quite a bit of pushback from constituents who are used to it.

[1:19:04] Trustee Busheikin: And they say in particular, I want to speak and know my neighbors and community members are

[1:19:12] Trustee Busheikin: are hearing me and I want to hear what they say.

[1:19:14] Trustee Busheikin: And I think they don't say it out loud,

[1:19:16] Trustee Busheikin: but I think that the understanding is

[1:19:18] Trustee Busheikin: I want to argue it out with other people in the community.

[1:19:21] Trustee Busheikin: And as well, it seems to breed a sense of suspicion,

[1:19:25] Trustee Busheikin: which already is a challenge,

[1:19:27] Trustee Busheikin: the suspicion of government

[1:19:29] Trustee Busheikin: that we're somehow dividing and conquering.

[1:19:32] Trustee Busheikin: And I'm wondering how to get beyond that

[1:19:36] Trustee Busheikin: or do we just have to allow that reaction to happen

[1:19:40] Trustee Busheikin: and then just kind of sit with it and get through it.

[1:19:45] Voice 35: Yeah, so I think based on what you've just described to me,

[1:19:47] Voice 35: there's a lot of techniques,

[1:19:49] Voice 35: different techniques that help achieve that

[1:19:51] Voice 35: in a more equitable manner.

[1:19:53] Voice 35: And so I think that if that truly is the concern

[1:19:56] Voice 35: that people want to hear from their neighbors

[1:19:57] Voice 35: and have discussion with their neighbors

[1:19:59] Voice 35: and be able to vocalize their own opinions,

[1:20:02] Voice 35: there's a lot of different ways in which we can do that.

[1:20:06] Voice 35: Talking circles,

[1:20:06] Voice 35: you know things that just change the power dynamic a little bit and help ensure that everyone gets an

[1:20:13] Voice 35: equal chance to speak especially those who are quieter and less dominant and so I think the

[1:20:20] Voice 35: messaging can be really just around you know that that certainly is an objective of the

[1:20:27] Voice 35: Islands Trust in this process as well we want to hear from you and your neighbors and talk this

[1:20:32] Voice 35: through. But that, you know, we have other techniques that we're that we're rolling out

[1:20:37] Voice 35: within this next phase that are going to achieve that. And I think that sometimes change can be

[1:20:42] Voice 35: hard. But, you know, town halls are certainly not the only way to gather input in that way.

[1:20:49] Voice 35: And so hopefully, you know, as you have people participate in alternate techniques, they

[1:20:55] Voice 35: become familiar with those and are happy to participate in those as they are exposed to

[1:21:01] Voice 35: exposed to that thank

[1:21:03] Trustee Luckham: you very much um so i'm wanting to now go to uh trustee morrison

[1:21:10] Trustee Luckham: for a motion um i recognize there's some other voices that have spoken already but i did

[1:21:15] Trustee Luckham: suggest we should advance this given the time that we have remaining to us trustee morrison

[1:21:22] Trustee Morrison: thank you and and i um you you said something since i spoke that i just actually needed

[1:21:27] Trustee Morrison: clarification on to be sure i'm making the right motion you you said that um the communication

[1:21:33] Trustee Morrison: specialist was included in in scenario three but not in scenario two however in this scenario two

[1:21:39] Trustee Morrison: um project charter i do see a communication staff or specialist for the same amount

[1:21:44] Trustee Morrison: as uh is listed in scenario three so could i just get a clarification on that

[1:21:51] Trustee Luckham: claire claire over to you so

[1:21:53] Voice 23: i'm happy to speak to that both scenarios involve a communication

[1:21:56] Voice 23: staff person within the public engagement consultant amount of 100,000 for the engagement

[1:22:05] Voice 23: consultant, that would presume that we would ask them to take on additional communications

[1:22:08] Voice 23: responsibilities as well, in addition to having the internal staff resource.

[1:22:13] Trustee Morrison: All right. Thank you.

[1:22:14] Trustee Morrison: um okay so i would like to go ahead um and sorry i just put down to my question um

[1:22:25] Trustee Morrison: and put the motion on the table um that the trust council approved the islands trust 2050 phase

[1:22:35] Trustee Morrison: three public engagement project charter scenario three and approve a budget of an additional

[1:22:40] Trustee Morrison: $82,000 consisting of an additional transfer of $62,000 from general revenue surplus fund

[1:22:46] Trustee Morrison: and the remainder to be funded by any reallocation of funds from the approved 2021-2022 budget to

[1:22:53] Trustee Morrison: support implementation.

[1:22:55] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much for the motion. That's the motion that's in your package

[1:22:59] Trustee Luckham: and I'm going to ask if there's a seconder. I see Trustee Wolverton's hand up. Are you wishing to

[1:23:05] Trustee Luckham: second that motion and see yes okay thank you so then um i'm just gonna ask just to be clear

[1:23:14] Trustee Luckham: everybody lower their hands including trustee scott thank you and now um do you wish to speak

[1:23:19] Trustee Luckham: to your motion um trustee morrison yes

[1:23:22] Trustee Morrison: please so i i have been going back and forth between uh two

[1:23:27] Trustee Morrison: and three a little bit but there's a couple of things i think that are really critical here

[1:23:30] Trustee Morrison: one um we've heard clearly from our communities that they want a way to engage and um i agree

[1:23:38] Trustee Morrison: with what's been stated here today that straight up town halls have a power dynamic that causes

[1:23:44] Trustee Morrison: problems for us to hear our communities completely and us as trustees are not necessarily the best

[1:23:50] Trustee Morrison: folks at being able to understand and know how to have distributed conversations where power is a

[1:23:55] Trustee Morrison: a little flatter in community. So I think that we can learn a lot from working with consultants.

[1:24:02] Trustee Morrison: The one caveat I would put in this is that I do not, like Trustee Johnson, I do not want to see

[1:24:07] Trustee Morrison: only consultants in this space. I want to see trustees at every one of those meetings so that

[1:24:13] Trustee Morrison: we're in conversation with our community and we're learning and hearing our community clearly.

[1:24:18] Trustee Morrison: in terms of how we use this information then we would be deeply informed as we make our own

[1:24:25] Trustee Morrison: decisions having heard broadly from our communities not only from those most vocal and

[1:24:32] Trustee Morrison: you know on current communication pathways so I think that this is really important I am actually

[1:24:41] Trustee Morrison: quite conservative fiscally so this is a little bit of a hard motion for me to make because it's

[1:24:47] Trustee Morrison: a lot of money. But I also think that we've been asked quite clearly by people who want to see

[1:24:56] Trustee Morrison: more consultation processes. And to do that well, we need clear documents. The communications piece,

[1:25:05] Trustee Morrison: while I agree that we don't want it to be just like provide information, we as trustees need

[1:25:11] Trustee Morrison: clear scientific evidence related documents that we can take into our community share broadly in

[1:25:18] Trustee Morrison: our community so that clear messages are communicated and that to me is a critical

[1:25:24] Trustee Morrison: component of this because we hear a lot of just hearsay right now and that is seriously problematic

[1:25:30] Trustee Morrison: to pushing forward both on what we in our mandate have and um what what are many in our community

[1:25:38] Trustee Morrison: really want to see. So I think that's all I really need to do right now. When the last thing there

[1:25:46] Trustee Morrison: was a comment about more consultants, and I hear that, you know, but I think the other issue is

[1:25:53] Trustee Morrison: bringing a consultant into this through the procurement process that exists, allows us to

[1:26:00] Trustee Morrison: step a little bit away from staff, not to say staff aren't involved and are wonderful. But it

[1:26:06] Trustee Morrison: It allows for some independence

[1:26:10] Trustee Morrison: and a trust building exercise that we need.

[1:26:13] Trustee Morrison: Frankly, we just need that right now.

[1:26:16] Trustee Morrison: All right, I'll pause.

[1:26:17] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much, Trustee Morrison.

[1:26:21] Trustee Luckham: So I've got five speakers on the list here now

[1:26:25] Trustee Luckham: and very limited amount of time before we go to a break,

[1:26:28] Trustee Luckham: but let's just see how this goes.

[1:26:29] Trustee Luckham: I'm gonna ask you to be very clear

[1:26:32] Trustee Luckham: on whether you're for or against

[1:26:34] Trustee Luckham: or wanting to hear from your other colleagues

[1:26:36] Trustee Luckham: before you make an opinion,

[1:26:38] Trustee Luckham: but whether you're for or against the motion

[1:26:40] Trustee Luckham: and then speak to the motion.

[1:26:42] Trustee Luckham: We've had the opportunity for comment.

[1:26:44] Trustee Luckham: And so let us begin.

[1:26:46] Trustee Luckham: I'm gonna go trust Colburn, Rogers, Grove,

[1:26:49] Trustee Luckham: Allen, Patrick and Brent.

[1:26:56] Voice 42: Hello there, can you hear me?

[1:26:57] Voice 42: Yep.

[1:26:58] Voice 42: Okay, thank you.

[1:26:59] Voice 42: So I'm having technical this morning.

[1:27:00] Voice 42: I concur 100% with what chair of programs,

[1:27:04] Voice 42: Trust Programs Committee, Dr. Deb Morrison just said,

[1:27:08] Voice 42: and I support her motion and the points that she made

[1:27:12] Voice 42: in the interest of everybody, I will leave it there.

[1:27:24] Trustee Rogers: Trustee Rogers.

[1:27:26] Trustee Rogers: Thank you very much.

[1:27:27] Trustee Rogers: I also support the motion and agree with Trustee Morrison.

[1:27:31] Trustee Rogers: I think it's important for us to take a different approach.

[1:27:34] Trustee Rogers: I think of the old phrase, if we do what we did,

[1:27:38] Trustee Rogers: we'll get what we got.

[1:27:39] Trustee Rogers: So it's good for us to look for some alternative ways

[1:27:43] Trustee Rogers: for the people to feel comfortable.

[1:27:45] Trustee Rogers: I just want to make one point, just to be clear,

[1:27:48] Trustee Rogers: the last part of the motion is going to,

[1:27:51] Trustee Rogers: because there's approximately $62,000 in remaining surplus,

[1:27:57] Trustee Rogers: we have to find a way to fund this

[1:28:00] Trustee Rogers: or at least provide the funding.

[1:28:01] Trustee Rogers: The intention of that was to, for the trust council

[1:28:04] Trustee Rogers: to decide either to find another,

[1:28:07] Trustee Rogers: the extra $20,000 from another program

[1:28:09] Trustee Rogers: or tell somebody else, other group or committee,

[1:28:14] Trustee Rogers: the executive or the trust programs committee

[1:28:16] Trustee Rogers: to go make that decision.

[1:28:18] Trustee Rogers: So just so you know that that's sort of where that wording

[1:28:22] Trustee Rogers: of that motion came from

[1:28:24] Trustee Rogers: because there was insufficient

[1:28:27] Trustee Rogers: leftover surplus to fund the total $82,000

[1:28:32] Trustee Rogers: at least according to current figures.

[1:28:34] Trustee Luckham: Okay, thank you, Trustee Rogers

[1:28:36] Trustee Luckham: and get those that have spoken to lower their hands

[1:28:38] Trustee Luckham: and trustee grow is next followed by alan thank

[1:28:42] Trustee Grove: you and i support deb morrison i as your money

[1:28:44] Trustee Grove: man i should let you know that i fully support this process um if we're going to do the job we

[1:28:49] Trustee Grove: need to do it properly and it is going to cost us a bit but it's it's it's important to do it well

[1:28:54] Trustee Grove: thank you thank

[1:28:55] Trustee Luckham: you trustee grove trustee allen and then patrick okay

[1:29:00] Trustee Allen: i'm gonna be mr negative

[1:29:01] Trustee Allen: i'm not gonna be in support of this at all um i just feel yes the community and will you know

[1:29:09] Trustee Allen: like the fact that we passed pause on this whole process but adding further staff and consultants, I just, I just don't see my community be very happy about that.

[1:29:21] Trustee Allen: You know I read a lot of the letters that were received regarding the whole engagement process and I felt a lot of them are not necessarily with the actual engagement process per se but it was more about the how rushed it was and bad timing during the pandemic,

[1:29:36] Trustee Allen: and that. So I just see that why can't we can do cheaper versions grassroots level like, you know, we can have community neighborhood meetings, Grant and I could have a booth outside the co op or something.

[1:29:51] Trustee Allen: Yes, we need clear documents but that does not require, you know, a bunch of money, I just, I just can't agree with this and

[1:29:59] Trustee Allen: And, um,

[1:30:00] Trustee Allen: And I'm also surprised that the trustees weren't engaged

[1:30:03] Trustee Allen: at the beginning with this at all.

[1:30:05] Trustee Allen: You know, you say town halls don't work.

[1:30:07] Trustee Allen: Well, we say sometimes town halls do work

[1:30:09] Trustee Allen: and we do know our communities

[1:30:11] Trustee Allen: and we do know how to communicate them.

[1:30:13] Trustee Allen: So I'm not going to vote in favor.

[1:30:15] Trustee Allen: Thank you.

[1:30:17] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Trustee Allen.

[1:30:19] Trustee Luckham: We're at 1030, councilor's pleasure,

[1:30:22] Trustee Luckham: I would like to go five minutes

[1:30:24] Trustee Luckham: to see if we can get through to a vote or not.

[1:30:27] Trustee Luckham: And otherwise I'm going to recess

[1:30:28] Trustee Luckham: and we'll come back to it later.

[1:30:30] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Patrick, Brent, Peterson, Scott, Critchley,

[1:30:34] Trustee Luckham: McConkey.

[1:30:36] Trustee Patrick: I am voting in favor of this motion

[1:30:39] Trustee Patrick: and thank Trustee Morrison for her words.

[1:30:42] Trustee Patrick: I see the big difference with this option is

[1:30:45] Trustee Patrick: it's not just the conversations we have on our islands.

[1:30:48] Trustee Patrick: I know we know how to have those conversations.

[1:30:51] Trustee Patrick: It's the threading together.

[1:30:53] Trustee Patrick: I know they use the thing weaving,

[1:30:55] Trustee Patrick: but it's how we bring this together

[1:30:56] Trustee Patrick: and end up and I agree with Trustee Wolverton this is a huge opportunity we've got so many people

[1:31:05] Trustee Patrick: paying attention right now and and ready to jump in so I think this is an opportunity.

[1:31:12] Trustee Luckham: Thank you Trustee Patrick. Trustee

[1:31:14] Voice 5: Brent. I'm not going to vote in favor notwithstanding the fact

[1:31:18] Voice 5: that yes we definitely need more engagement with Islanders but where I have a problem

[1:31:24] Voice 5: I have a couple of problems. One is the fact that this is more around informing rather than

[1:31:29] Voice 5: consulting. And I don't think we consulted properly in the first place, personally. I think

[1:31:36] Voice 5: we consulted through the lens of climate change and reconciliation. And those were the two big

[1:31:42] Voice 5: driver topics. And so that's what we ended up with. I think we have to be more fundamental,

[1:31:47] Voice 5: get back to basics and consult with islanders and hear them so i agree we need to do the

[1:31:56] Voice 5: consultation i really don't like i don't like the framework necessarily and the way it's it's

[1:32:02] Voice 5: designed i also think it um would give a preferential bias in a request for a proposal

[1:32:09] Voice 5: or a quotation to the firm modus which i you know it might be a great firm but i'm really

[1:32:15] Voice 5: uncomfortable with the fact that it was a a direct award and b is going to give them preferential um

[1:32:21] Voice 5: a preferential status in in responding to something so i can't support it at this point in

[1:32:27] Voice 5: time right

[1:32:28] Trustee Luckham: um i i don't want to enter into a debate but if i'm not mistaken um the province

[1:32:35] Trustee Luckham: would be handling the awarding of the proposal uh to or no it wouldn't be but anyway there would be

[1:32:42] Trustee Luckham: no bias it would be on merit um i believe um so trustee peterson scott pritchett mcconnell

[1:32:50] Voice 7: yeah thank you chair um uh i i'm gonna support the motion a little i i will say a little bit

[1:32:57] Voice 7: reluctantly i'm i'm a little bit reluctant to spend the kind of money that we're talking about

[1:33:02] Voice 7: out um and uh at the same time it's really clear that um we need to do uh we need to do this

[1:33:14] Voice 7: process better than we have done to date and we need to do everything we can to try and uh and

[1:33:22] Voice 7: and make it uh more successful than we have uh to this point and um you know i i don't see uh

[1:33:32] Voice 7: A lot of other options on the table that are going to give us a better chance for getting towards the outcome that we want, which is the public to be engaged, the public to be heard and to be felt that they're being heard, and that's really where we need to go.

[1:33:53] Voice 7: So, as I say, although I'm a little bit shy about spending this kind of money, this is a really important foundational piece of work that we're doing here, and I think

[1:34:05] Voice 7: we need to do everything we can to make it as set it up for success.

[1:34:10] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Trustee Peterson. So, Trustee Scott, Critchley, McConkie, I'm going to make a short remark myself and I'd like to call the vote. Trustee Scott.

[1:34:18] Voice 41: Thank you. I don't like voting against Alex, but on this one, I'm going to disagree with him. I agree with what Brent said, but I really believe, Molly, I'm going to take you at your word that you will be reaching down to the communities, because Hornby is quite different than what's going on down south.

[1:34:35] Voice 41: So if there aren't 20 people on Horme right now

[1:34:37] Voice 41: that even understand this conversation that's going on,

[1:34:39] Voice 41: and if we don't engage those people,

[1:34:40] Voice 41: at the end of the day,

[1:34:41] Voice 41: they will come through me and Alex and I

[1:34:43] Voice 41: and tell us, don't vote for this.

[1:34:45] Voice 41: So we need that engagement.

[1:34:47] Voice 41: We need it here.

[1:34:48] Voice 41: And Molly, I'm going to take you at your word

[1:34:50] Voice 41: that you will, there's a lot of things in that document

[1:34:53] Voice 41: that I could see that I would write maybe differently,

[1:34:56] Voice 41: but I'm going to agree with you.

[1:34:56] Voice 41: You're going to listen and we're going to learn

[1:34:58] Voice 41: and we're going to understand

[1:34:58] Voice 41: and we're going to put this thing where we want it.

[1:35:02] Voice 41: and um molly can you i'd like to get your uh email address or phone number please

[1:35:09] Trustee Luckham: trustee scott thank you for your comments but i am obligated to say that modus may or may not even

[1:35:18] Trustee Luckham: bid on this contract and that it will be somebody else that will implement

[1:35:22] Trustee Luckham: the work um this is a the recommendation which council willer will not endorse

[1:35:27] Trustee Luckham: that will be taken on by somebody.

[1:35:31] Trustee Luckham: So thank you.

[1:35:32] Trustee Luckham: And so thank you for your support for it.

[1:35:34] Trustee Luckham: So Trustee McConkie, do you want to call the vote?

[1:35:39] Voice 41: Peter, I have to base my comments

[1:35:40] Voice 41: on what I'm seeing in front of me.

[1:35:42] Voice 41: So that's what I'm doing.

[1:35:43] Voice 41: I mean, you can disagree with it.

[1:35:45] Voice 41: Thank you.

[1:35:46] Voice 41: Trustee Critchley-McConkie.

[1:35:50] Trustee Critchley: Thank you.

[1:35:50] Trustee Critchley: I've got my video off because my internet is unstable.

[1:35:54] Trustee Critchley: I'm going to vote against this motion.

[1:35:57] Trustee Critchley: For the simple reason I think this is far too much money

[1:36:00] Trustee Critchley: to be spending for this purpose. I think there is an overreaction by a number of people in response

[1:36:08] Trustee Critchley: to the public's engagement earlier. Obviously, the public became quite engaged, or some sectors

[1:36:18] Trustee Critchley: of the public became quite engaged without us doing anything at all. We weren't really ready

[1:36:27] Trustee Critchley: ready to take this public and the public jumped in. So what I heard from public was they didn't

[1:36:35] Trustee Critchley: want us to proceed in the absence of public input. And we had the debate then happened whether we

[1:36:43] Trustee Critchley: should be doing first reading and then going out to the public or going out to the public before

[1:36:50] Trustee Critchley: for first reading. And we decided then that we would not do first reading. So I don't see that

[1:36:57] Trustee Critchley: there has been a great failure of communication here, except that the public somehow got us

[1:37:06] Trustee Critchley: panicked or got certain people panicked into thinking that we were doing a horrible job.

[1:37:11] Trustee Critchley: I think we should hold the course and do a reasonable job of public engagement in the

[1:37:18] Trustee Critchley: the normal way that we do it and spending this this amount of money dipping into reserves and

[1:37:24] Trustee Critchley: going even beyond surplus is untenable for me thank you thank

[1:37:30] Voice 15: you trustee christie trustee

[1:37:32] Voice 15: mcconkey

[1:37:32] Trustee McConchie: for this motion i just paid my back for my co-trustee trustee morrison uh i've learned

[1:37:40] Trustee McConchie: from this experience that collecting people's opinions is big business and i can't support

[1:37:45] Trustee McConchie: this motion because um first of all it's a lot of money uh second of all i don't like when i have

[1:37:50] Trustee McConchie: to pay someone to do my job right my job as a trustee is to go out as the political representative

[1:37:57] Trustee McConchie: hear people's opinions in the community which i've been doing non-stop i can organize a bare

[1:38:03] Trustee McConchie: bones meeting outside the community hall hear people's opinions i go to the farmers market

[1:38:08] Trustee McConchie: ultimately it's going to be up to the trustees to make the decision right so i can't support this

[1:38:14] Trustee McConchie: motion because i'm essentially paying someone to do what my job is as trustee right so that's why

[1:38:20] Trustee McConchie: i appreciate the sentiment appreciate the presentation i cannot support this moment

[1:38:24] Trustee Luckham: thank you trustee mcconkie now trustee langer eyes i did say i was going to call the vote but

[1:38:29] Trustee Luckham: you maintained your hand up i am going to cut my remarks even shorter and ask you to make a very

[1:38:35] Trustee Luckham: short remark and then i would like to call the vote

[1:38:37] Voice 37: okay yeah i'm not in support of this motion

[1:38:40] Voice 37: for cost, the issue around the impact on staff

[1:38:46] Voice 37: is not as great as it seems, so that's my.

[1:38:51] Trustee Luckham: All right, thank you very much.

[1:38:53] Trustee Luckham: I am in support of this.

[1:38:55] Trustee Luckham: We heard loud and clear that we need to do

[1:38:57] Trustee Luckham: an enhanced level of communication with our community

[1:39:01] Trustee Luckham: and I want to support that.

[1:39:03] Trustee Luckham: I'm going to call the vote.

[1:39:05] Trustee Luckham: Are you ready?

[1:39:06] Trustee Luckham: All those in favor of the motion on your screen.

[1:39:16] Voice 31: Chair Lockham?

[1:39:17] Voice 14: Yes.

[1:39:18] Trustee Busheikin: Yeah, this is Trustee Boucher.

[1:39:20] Trustee Busheikin: I'm on the phone now.

[1:39:21] Trustee Busheikin: I had an internet problem.

[1:39:22] Trustee Busheikin: So I vote in favor.

[1:39:24] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[1:39:24] Trustee Luckham: I also see a raised hand by Trustee Thorne.

[1:39:27] Trustee Luckham: So that's two additional hands.

[1:39:30] Trustee Luckham: And I'm just going to check in with anybody else on the phone.

[1:39:36] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[1:39:37] Trustee Luckham: So then that, including my own vote, that's 13 in favor.

[1:39:41] Trustee Luckham: So please lower your hands.

[1:39:46] Trustee Luckham: Lower your hands.

[1:39:48] Trustee Luckham: One more there.

[1:39:51] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[1:39:52] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[1:39:52] Trustee Luckham: Now those opposed.

[1:39:53] Trustee Luckham: Please raise your hand.

[1:39:58] Trustee Luckham: Any on the phones opposed?

[1:40:01] Trustee Luckham: So that's 10 opposed.

[1:40:03] Trustee Luckham: That carries.

[1:40:05] Trustee Luckham: Council, thank you very much for the debate.

[1:40:07] Trustee Luckham: Thank you to Motus and Molly for the presentation today.

[1:40:14] Trustee Luckham: The in-depth debate.

[1:40:15] Trustee Luckham: Let's go to our break and come back at 10.45.

[1:40:19] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Council.

[1:40:23] Voice 32: That gives us five minutes.

[1:40:31] Trustee Grove: Anybody there?

[1:40:32] Trustee Grove: That gives us five minutes, Peter.

[1:40:34] Trustee Grove: Peter.

[1:40:34] Voice 32: Do we want to delay the Coast

[1:40:37] Trustee Grove: Guard, but five minutes doesn't even get me time to get down to the toilet.

[1:40:42] Trustee Grove: Seven. Yeah, 10.

[1:40:43] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so we're going to go for 10 minutes, we just had a discussion about it and so we'll give our apologies to the Coast Guard for the delay, but we're going to go, we're going to come back at 1050.

[1:40:54] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[1:41:48] Voice 32: Laurie, are you still there.

[1:41:54] Voice 32: Yes.

[1:41:55] Voice 32: Yes.

[1:41:56] Trustee Morrison: I just need to give my apologies for the next hour.

[1:41:59] Trustee Morrison: I have a work conflict,

[1:42:00] Trustee Morrison: so I will have to step out for the next hour.

[1:42:04] Voice 32: Okay, Trustee Morrison,

[1:42:05] Voice 32: thank you for your support.

[1:42:06] Voice 32: I'll move to this motion.

[1:42:07] Trustee Morrison: Thank you.

[1:50:54] Voice 32: So

[1:50:54] Trustee Luckham: thank you, Council, for coming back.

[1:50:57] Trustee Luckham: I apologize for the short break.

[1:51:01] Trustee Luckham: So now we're going to,

[1:51:03] Trustee Luckham: I'm going to turn this over to Claire Freider

[1:51:05] Trustee Luckham: to introduce our guests from Coast Guard, DFO, Stephanie Hawkins, Corey McIver, and Sarah Hughes

[1:51:17] Trustee Luckham: is not in your package. It's another member of this presentation. So over to Claire Frater.

[1:51:24] Trustee Luckham: Thank you for pulling us together. And then Dan Rogers, sort of closest to this topic,

[1:51:29] Trustee Luckham: has also got a few words to share with you.

[1:51:31] Voice 23: Thank you all. And yes, thank you to our guests

[1:51:34] Voice 23: for attending today to talk to you about uh oil spill preparedness planning uh this has been a

[1:51:39] Voice 23: topic that the trust has been um somewhat um interested in and in the past you had previously

[1:51:45] Voice 23: advocated with significant effort around the need for more attention being paid to oil spill

[1:51:50] Voice 23: preparedness and particularly geographic response planning um in mostly in prior terms but continuing

[1:51:56] Voice 23: to this term a general interest in ensuring that there are proper plans in place and that there

[1:52:01] Voice 23: be proper coordination in the event of this bill so we're very pleased to welcome the guests here

[1:52:05] Voice 23: today and thank them for making themselves available um i would um let you know our

[1:52:11] Voice 23: trustee rogers or vice chair rogers um would also like to help with the introduction of this session

[1:52:15] Voice 23: by giving some background around uh the island's trust consideration of its role and uh his role

[1:52:22] Voice 23: in representing the trust um to the coast guard in these processes um

[1:52:27] Trustee Rogers: thanks claire just just briefly

[1:52:29] Trustee Rogers: briefly um i i sort of i i sort of pushed to have this session today and nice to see you sarah uh

[1:52:35] Trustee Rogers: the uh uh about two years ago uh that we realized that they were in the process of developing

[1:52:43] Trustee Rogers: finalizing a plan for the vancouver area and there had been no connection with any of the

[1:52:48] Trustee Rogers: local trust areas in that area or bowen island in fact at that point and so i reached out and

[1:52:53] Trustee Rogers: sat in on a number of the meetings and then i got uh started to sit in on the meetings but

[1:52:59] Trustee Rogers: Georgia Strait which include sorry the Strait of Juan de Fuca planning response planning you're

[1:53:03] Trustee Rogers: going to hear about which involved most of the southern Gulf Islands and then the the focus

[1:53:08] Trustee Rogers: turned to the planning process for the uh for the Georgia Strait which includes more of most of the

[1:53:13] Trustee Rogers: northern islands and it frankly became too much for me to sort of monitor all of those uh at the

[1:53:20] Trustee Rogers: same time and we don't really have any kind of dedicated resources within the trust but I felt

[1:53:25] Trustee Rogers: it was important for islanders to know what kind of planning the coast guard is doing who it's

[1:53:31] Trustee Rogers: including in this in the planning process and where it's at in the response planning because

[1:53:36] Trustee Rogers: it's quite a detailed and um dedicated day effort that the coast guard has done and it's been it's

[1:53:41] Trustee Rogers: been very interesting to be involved uh but i think we uh i wanted to make sure that the trustees

[1:53:47] Trustee Rogers: at least my personal agenda was to make sure that trustees were aware of what was going on what the

[1:53:53] Trustee Rogers: detail of level of planning was so that you can give some thought as to how local communities

[1:53:57] Trustee Rogers: might be involved uh besides through the regional district so with that i'll just pass it on to

[1:54:05] Trustee Rogers: sarah and her team thanks very much all right

[1:54:09] Voice 32: sir thank you for joining us over to you

[1:54:13] Voice 19: um thanks over to me sorry i think i've got a delay um so thanks it's nice to see you again

[1:54:20] Voice 19: i thought i recognized your face it's hard on zoom because everybody's kind of

[1:54:23] Voice 19: a little itty bitty for me right now so there's probably a way i can fix that um i'm only going

[1:54:27] Voice 19: to talk for a couple of seconds and i'm going to hand it over to stephanie and cory um to give you

[1:54:33] Voice 19: the presentation and a suggestion just because we're going to throw a lot of information um out

[1:54:39] Voice 19: a suggestion we'd like to leave the questions till the end if possible um i don't know if that's how

[1:54:45] Voice 19: you normally proceed with these proceedings but i just think that questions might get answered as

[1:54:51] Voice 19: the presentation progresses so sometimes or change sometimes it's better to wait till the end

[1:54:56] Voice 19: but if something pops up and we need to answer it urgently I'll keep an eye on hands and things like

[1:55:02] Voice 19: that or however I'm sorry we're used to teams and not zoom so it might take me a minute to clue in

[1:55:07] Voice 19: that somebody's waving at me here but yeah so my name is Sarah Hughes I'm the acting deputy

[1:55:13] Voice 19: superintendent for environmental response preparedness team so that includes Corey

[1:55:18] Voice 19: and Stephanie and their teams and in my case it also includes our training team so if anybody

[1:55:22] Voice 19: has any any questions about training as well I can answer those at the end. We also have an

[1:55:28] Voice 19: exercise group that's that's available so on the preparedness side we do have a lot of different

[1:55:35] Voice 19: pockets of folks who are working on different things but Stephanie and Corey have just come

[1:55:40] Voice 19: in and started taking over as project managers for the response plans. As mentioned I was the

[1:55:46] Voice 19: previous project manager for GVERB for the Greater Vancouver Integrated Response Plan

[1:55:50] Voice 19: and Wanda Fuca. So I left for about a year and a half but I'm happy to come back now and be back

[1:55:58] Voice 19: on this file for this very reason is just to be able to go out and talk to folks and and glean

[1:56:02] Voice 19: information. But I'll stop. Try moving your cursor that unfroze my screen. I'm having problems with

[1:56:11] Voice 19: the frozen screen too um so uh yeah i'll i'll head over to stephanie and cory happy to answer

[1:56:18] Voice 19: any questions at the end between the three of us i'm sure we can get you an answer if not we can

[1:56:22] Voice 19: follow up by email if we don't know the answer um the geographical response planning that's exactly

[1:56:30] Voice 19: what we're going to talk about so it's nice to hear that lingo being used because it's the same

[1:56:35] Voice 19: lingo we use we're they're called the integrated response plans but in our lingo they're area

[1:56:39] Voice 19: response plans in the hierarchy of how planning works um but yeah pretty excited about this and

[1:56:45] Voice 19: even more excited about hopefully being able to get out and start talking to people again and

[1:56:49] Voice 19: and getting information because we're we're very focused on um having as much information for

[1:56:55] Voice 19: responders available at the time of the incident not not to have to go out and get it um as

[1:57:01] Voice 19: possible and i know that's been provided before um and uh hopefully we can build on that so i'll

[1:57:08] Voice 19: I'll hand it over. I think Stephanie, you're starting, right? Did you want to, um, introduce

[1:57:12] Voice 19: yourself and, uh, you're, you're on mute.

[1:57:19] Voice 40: Corey's actually going to start our presentation, but I

[1:57:21] Voice 40: will jump on and just say hi. So I am Stephanie Hawkins. I am the regional project manager for

[1:57:28] Voice 40: Greater Vancouver and Georgia Strait area. I started with Coast Guard in June. I come from

[1:57:33] Voice 40: a background from industry and as well as working in post-secondary for emergency and disaster

[1:57:37] Voice 40: disaster management. And I am enjoying my time here in Coast Guard so far and we're looking to

[1:57:41] Voice 40: work with you guys. So I let Corey jump in and he's going to start our presentation and I'll

[1:57:45] Voice 40: take the end of it before we get into the question area.

[1:57:52] Voice 13: Hey, good morning everyone. My name is Corey

[1:57:54] Voice 13: McKeever. So I'm just going to bring up my shared screen here. One moment. Okay. Yeah, so we already

[1:58:11] Voice 13: got through some of the introductions and the welcome so we can skip over most of that. So my

[1:58:15] Voice 13: background, I've been with PIER around the same time as Stephanie, so just for a few months.

[1:58:19] Voice 13: I came from Coast Guard from the ships before that and then from the Regional

[1:58:25] Voice 13: Operations Center for a while. So I've been on both ends of the environmental response

[1:58:30] Voice 13: side of things. So the way we're going to run this presentation today is I'm just going to run

[1:58:35] Voice 13: quickly through an overview of the Coast Guard's mandate and practices in terms of how we deal with

[1:58:41] Voice 13: with response. And then I'm going to hand it over to Stephanie and she's going to talk about

[1:58:45] Voice 13: PR specifically, so planning for integrated environmental response.

[1:58:49] Voice 13: Oh, and sorry, I should mention I'm the project manager for the Juan de Fuca and West Coast

[1:58:54] Voice 13: Vancouver Island regions, and as well for the Northern Vancouver Island region once that one

[1:58:58] Voice 13: is up and running. But currently it is sleeping for the time being. So here we go. So yeah,

[1:59:11] Voice 13: Yeah, if you may know some or all of this but just so everyone's on the same page.

[1:59:15] Voice 13: So the Coast Guard, as you may or may not know, is the responsible federal agency for dealing with with all ship source and mystery source marine pollution in Canadian waters.

[1:59:25] Voice 13: waters. So we do interact somewhat with the province insofar as sometimes spills will

[1:59:33] Voice 13: originate on land where they're provincial and then they find their way into the ocean

[1:59:38] Voice 13: where we become the lead agency on those or a cooperating agency. But yeah, for the most

[1:59:44] Voice 13: part if there is marine pollution, the Coast Guard is the lead agency in most cases.

[1:59:49] Voice 13: is um so over the the last few years we've kind of refined the way that we we

[2:00:00] Voice 13: deal with notification response. We've tried to get better at finding out about pollution

[2:00:06] Voice 13: as early as possible, obviously, because the sooner you know, the faster and better you can

[2:00:10] Voice 13: respond. So in the last few years, we've set up a 24-7 marine pollution reporting line, which I

[2:00:17] Voice 13: encourage everyone to write down the number for and stick on their fridge somewhere.

[2:00:21] Voice 13: somewhere. So we do find out other ways as well so so marine traffic radio.

[2:00:28] Voice 13: We also find out through NBC. Sometimes people will call their local police.

[2:00:33] Voice 13: Even if they see a spill. So we are getting the word out there about about this number

[2:00:38] Voice 13: and that people should call us first if they see marine pollution, because that is the

[2:00:44] Voice 13: best way to do it. But yeah, we do have people standing by 24 seven to to receive reports

[2:00:50] Voice 13: marine pollution and and we investigate each and every one of them so yeah um so yeah i strongly

[2:00:57] Voice 13: encourage

[2:00:57] Voice 32: you to take that number i think we lost your your

[2:01:11] Voice 19: uh voice cory i can continue with uh

[2:01:30] Voice 19: cory can't reconnect uh

[2:01:32] Trustee Luckham: i'll give cory a moment sorry

[2:01:35] Voice 13: i can you can you hear me now

[2:01:36] Voice 13: that was strange okay um yeah it wasn't on mute or anything like that i'm not sure what happened

[2:01:44] Voice 13: there but anyway um yeah so just to give you a sense of of how many calls we get uh we got about

[2:01:50] Voice 13: 1200 reports of possible pollution last year we're on target to meet that this year too i think we're

[2:01:56] Voice 13: up around uh the high 700s or 800 so far so those aren't all calls about about massive oil spills we

[2:02:03] Voice 13: do receive um you know significant numbers of calls about things that that look like pollution

[2:02:09] Voice 13: but aren't so we will hear about algae algae blooms or um or just floating objects that people

[2:02:15] Voice 13: are concerned about um but we uh yeah and and the calls about hydrocarbon range from people

[2:02:21] Voice 13: emptying their bilge in marinas which unfortunately still happens quite a lot um to the kind of large

[2:02:27] Voice 13: scale um you know multiple tons of bunker fuel potentially being released and that sort of thing

[2:02:33] Voice 13: So, certainly not all 1,200 reports that they received last year were oil spills, but we do engage with quite a number of people over the course of a year.

[2:02:45] Voice 13: So, when any call comes in, they get assessed immediately.

[2:02:50] Voice 13: Like I said, there's people there 24-7, and they create a report initially.

[2:02:55] Voice 13: And this is where the Islands Trust will potentially engage.

[2:02:59] Voice 13: gauge. So we distribute the reports that we get to people at various tiers, depending on how

[2:03:06] Voice 13: significant the incident is deemed to be. So if we hear about something that is almost certainly

[2:03:14] Voice 13: algae or almost certainly stormwater runoff or someone irresponsibly cleaning their bilge at

[2:03:20] Voice 13: a marina, we probably won't alert the entire province about it. But when we hear about

[2:03:26] Voice 13: something that is potentially significant we will activate an enhanced notification procedure so

[2:03:32] Voice 13: that's where the islands trust and first nations and and other partners will start to hear about

[2:03:38] Voice 13: these things and we try to do that as early as possible so that we're not telling you about it

[2:03:42] Voice 13: after it's happened but you'll hear about it as as it's ongoing and as our investigation

[2:03:46] Voice 13: is proceeding and a response if we do activate a response

[2:03:49] Voice 13: response. So as the bottom of the slide here says, most reports end at the middle stage.

[2:03:58] Voice 13: So I don't have a stat in front of me reflecting the number of pollution reports that turned

[2:04:04] Voice 13: into responses, active responses, where we're out there booming and absorbing fuel or other

[2:04:12] Voice 13: hydrocarbons into absorbent boom or skimming or that sort of thing. But yeah, most of the

[2:04:19] Voice 13: the incidents we deal with are non-recoverable hydrocarbons

[2:04:23] Voice 13: that dissipate on their own naturally.

[2:04:26] Voice 13: So that said, what we'll usually do

[2:04:30] Voice 13: is when a report comes in,

[2:04:33] Voice 13: it gets handed off to a duty officer,

[2:04:35] Voice 13: an environmental response duty officer,

[2:04:37] Voice 13: and they will assess each situation

[2:04:40] Voice 13: in order to make the best decision

[2:04:41] Voice 13: about whether to activate a response or not.

[2:04:46] Voice 13: So this typically involves at minimum,

[2:04:48] Voice 13: you know, calling the person who who called it in and getting as much information as possible will request photo and video.

[2:04:55] Voice 13: We will send people out. So not just environmental response officers but people from lifeboat stations.

[2:05:01] Voice 13: Even warfinger sometimes, whoever we can get in the area to get to the scene as quickly as possible to to get the best information to the duty officers that they can make a judgment as to whether this is a substantial ship source or mystery

[2:05:16] Voice 13: resource spill um that that we can recover pollutant from or whether it's something that

[2:05:22] Voice 13: will um dissipate on its own or or isn't um isn't a hydrocarbon that we can respond to

[2:05:30] Voice 13: oh yeah we do have we do have a plane as well uh which is very handy in a lot of circumstances for

[2:05:35] Voice 13: very remote areas so uh that's it's what technically it's transport canada's plane but

[2:05:39] Voice 13: they let us they let us use it we get great images from that and they can they can quantify from the

[2:05:44] Voice 13: the air um down to the you know tenth of a liter uh how much product is on the water so uh we get

[2:05:50] Voice 13: excellent information from them so yeah so every report uh will be assessed um and uh occasionally

[2:05:58] Voice 13: we will activate a response where uh where we think that it's going to be beneficial so um

[2:06:06] Voice 13: yeah so once the duty officer has has worked through uh what what they think is going on um

[2:06:11] Voice 13: then they'll make that judgment and they'll activate a response so where we are activating a response, we are mandated to to be deploying resources within a few hours after the report. So this all happens fairly quickly.

[2:06:26] Voice 13: The, as I kind of already discussed so will often not activate a response where there's either no pollution, because it's it's things that aren't actual recoverable hydrocarbon

[2:06:36] Voice 13: carbon, or less likely, but still happens is when when responding wouldn't be safe so

[2:06:43] Voice 13: there are times where there may be a significant spill but you know if there's a an eight meter

[2:06:50] Voice 13: swell.

[2:06:50] Voice 13: We're not going to realistically be able to put boom out or anything like that.

[2:06:55] Voice 13: It would be it would be dangerous to our responders, and it wouldn't be effective so.

[2:07:00] Voice 13: and also we're not super equipped to deal with hazardous chemical releases

[2:07:06] Voice 13: there often isn't a lot you can do in those cases anyway it's not like oil where it it

[2:07:12] Voice 13: sits nicely on the surface for you to skim it off the top they mix in in other ways so

[2:07:18] Voice 13: we do have some limited hazmat capability but most of what we focus on is is hydrocarbon in

[2:07:24] Voice 13: marine environment um a lot of other cases pollution will be non-recoverable so as i say

[2:07:32] Voice 13: there's runoff from storm drains gasoline dissipates almost immediately so we do get

[2:07:38] Voice 13: a fair number of reports about gasoline spills but um often by the time we get out to even have

[2:07:43] Voice 13: a look at them within an hour or two they're they're gone or mostly gone um and as product

[2:07:50] Voice 13: So it sits on the surface and is hit by sunlight and by wave action or by rain or wind or that sort of thing it will naturally dissipate on its own.

[2:08:01] Voice 13: So, again, if something's been on the water for a while and no one has seen it, and we get a call about it, and it's it's badly weathered often we won't be able to recover anything anyway so we do do our best.

[2:08:12] Voice 13: but uh yeah it's always good to conserve resources for uh for incidents where you can actually do

[2:08:19] Voice 13: some good and recover some product off the water so that's the goal at the end of the day um so

[2:08:27] Voice 13: that's um i mean in a nutshell how we respond to incidents um so yeah we tried to find out

[2:08:34] Voice 13: as quickly as possible um through reporting and reporting has gotten a lot better over the last

[2:08:38] Voice 13: few years um as more members of the public and and warfingers and other people learn that they

[2:08:44] Voice 13: can call us um so we do we do get lots of calls um we assess everyone and uh and notify out as

[2:08:52] Voice 13: as needed um yeah that's about it so in terms of the planning side uh i'm gonna pass it off

[2:09:02] Voice 13: to stephanie now and she's gonna run through uh some of the planning work we've been doing

[2:09:07] Voice 13: through pier uh so yeah although maybe i can just take any if there are any questions now about

[2:09:14] Voice 13: about notification or response i can maybe pause and take questions on this part of the

[2:09:20] Voice 13: presentation if anyone has any okay

[2:09:24] Trustee Luckham: thank you uh corey are there any questions i see trustee langer

[2:09:28] Trustee Luckham: rice uh from uh gabriola island was a question yeah

[2:09:33] Voice 37: thank you for the summary report you gave

[2:09:36] Voice 37: I have a couple of questions.

[2:09:38] Voice 37: One is First Nation reporting.

[2:09:41] Voice 37: It talks about significant incident.

[2:09:43] Voice 37: Is there some sort of definition of that?

[2:09:46] Voice 37: Or is that, I'm just curious about that.

[2:09:49] Voice 37: When would it be a significant versus non-significant, I guess?

[2:09:55] Voice 13: Thanks.

[2:09:56] Voice 13: Yeah, no, that's a great question.

[2:09:58] Voice 13: So significant is defined in a number of different ways.

[2:10:01] Voice 13: There's no one definition.

[2:10:04] Voice 13: So, it's, you know, either there's a large amount of fuel so I think we say over 1000 liters product, or it's a very ecologically sensitive area or it's very culturally sensitive area or it's a heavily trafficked area.

[2:10:18] Voice 13: So there's I think an eight or 12 item sort of definition of when an incident might be deemed significant that the duty officers will go through and they make that call about whether to to expand the notification based on on those criteria.

[2:10:33] Voice 13: So I don't have it right up in front of me, but yeah, there are a number of factors that will determine.

[2:10:38] Voice 13: But in general, we like to err on the side of over notification rather than under notification.

[2:10:43] Voice 13: So even if we don't know, but it's potentially significant, that will usually trigger a notification.

[2:10:51] Voice 37: Just another question about the hazardous spills that you won't respond to.

[2:10:58] Voice 37: what happens then do you port it on or it's a non-response as i recall there's no response

[2:11:07] Voice 37: activated on a hazard then what happens yeah

[2:11:12] Voice 13: i mean it depends on the product so at the very

[2:11:14] Voice 13: minimum um we will ensure that no one is accessing an area where a spill might have happened this is

[2:11:20] Voice 13: something that has happened very rarely in the time that i've been with the coast guard yeah um

[2:11:24] Voice 13: um but uh no another agency would likely take over so uh environment canada um might get involved or

[2:11:31] Voice 13: or transport uh probably environment canada um they have more of a broad mandate and capacity

[2:11:36] Voice 13: to deal with with um hazardous materials and chemicals and things like that um so excuse me

[2:11:42] Voice 13: our focus is is like i say primarily on uh on oil spills but it doesn't mean we'll uh we'll just

[2:11:47] Voice 13: turn around and head away if there's no you know caustic soda or something like that so yeah so

[2:11:53] Voice 37: So you become the conduit then to another agency potentially.

[2:11:56] Voice 37: Exactly.

[2:11:56] Voice 37: Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

[2:11:57] Voice 13: Yeah, absolutely.

[2:11:59] Voice 19: And just right, Sarah, I'm just going to jump in.

[2:12:02] Voice 19: WCMRC, Western Canterbury Response Corporation.

[2:12:04] Voice 19: I know they're increasing their capacity these days too.

[2:12:08] Voice 19: So we would be talking to them about what they have.

[2:12:10] Voice 19: We would look at other avenues like Corey said,

[2:12:13] Voice 19: including the response organization and other contractors

[2:12:18] Voice 19: or anybody that does have the right.

[2:12:21] Voice 19: it's mostly about personal protective equipment, to be honest,

[2:12:25] Voice 19: and knowledge about how the product will move in the water.

[2:12:29] Voice 19: So that's where we go to the Transportation of Dangerous Goods group

[2:12:31] Voice 19: in Transport Canada, and likely we could even look towards a private company.

[2:12:39] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[2:12:40] Trustee Luckham: I don't see any other questions.

[2:12:42] Trustee Luckham: I have a question.

[2:12:44] Trustee Luckham: Peter Lockham on Theta Silent.

[2:12:46] Trustee Luckham: I'm chair of council here.

[2:12:47] Trustee Luckham: In recent years, Transfraqueta has initiated flyovers of the freighters at anchor in the

[2:12:58] Trustee Luckham: Southern Gulf Islands, and I'm presuming that is under your umbrella.

[2:13:01] Trustee Luckham: And so my question on that would be, is that in your flyovers on a daily basis, I'm presuming

[2:13:10] Trustee Luckham: you would launch an incident automatically, given that something was noted on the waters.

[2:13:18] Trustee Luckham: And so perhaps you could answer both those questions. Is that in your area of responsibility

[2:13:23] Trustee Luckham: and the response regime?

[2:13:26] Voice 13: Yeah, thanks. That's a great question. Yeah, so the NASP, the aircraft

[2:13:31] Voice 13: that I mentioned in the previous slide, they don't just respond when something has been called in,

[2:13:37] Voice 13: they do active monitoring of areas of potential concern and they will often initiate a response

[2:13:45] Voice 13: or not a response but some of the pollution reports that are generated are our first point

[2:13:50] Voice 13: of contact about them is from the Transport Canada aircraft so they'll go up pretty much every day

[2:13:56] Voice 13: and do a big swath of the BC coast and they will notify us if they see anything significant so

[2:14:03] Voice 13: So sometimes they'll overfly the anchorages based on reports.

[2:14:08] Voice 13: We do get a fair number of calls about the anchorage vessels, some of which are about,

[2:14:14] Voice 13: you know, rust or things like that.

[2:14:15] Voice 13: Other ones are about potential hydrocarbons.

[2:14:18] Voice 13: But yeah, certainly we do hear a lot about the anchorages.

[2:14:23] Voice 13: And so TC will go out and fly their plane over in response to those.

[2:14:26] Voice 13: But they often also will just fly over as a matter of routine and notify us if they

[2:14:32] Voice 13: see anything.

[2:14:32] Voice 13: and then that would activate a response in exactly the same way as any other report of an oil spill would.

[2:14:41] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, then. So, why don't you or your colleagues continue with your presentation?

[2:14:46] Trustee Luckham: Okay,

[2:14:48] Voice 40: thanks. This is Stephanie again. I'll jump in there.

[2:14:51] Voice 40: Now that Corey's finished up with notifications, we will jump into response planning.

[2:14:58] Voice 40: So, basically, our integrated environmental response plans,

[2:15:02] Voice 40: our goal of those is basically to improve our ability to prepare for and respond to any ship

[2:15:07] Voice 40: source and missed resource pollution incidents in Canadian waters and in order to do that we

[2:15:13] Voice 40: collaborate with all of our spill response partners which include federal, provincial,

[2:15:18] Voice 40: first nations, local government such as yourselves as well as others such as WCMRC which is Western

[2:15:24] Voice 40: Canada Marine Response Corporation. So our focus with that is to build relationships,

[2:15:32] Voice 40: connect roles and responsibilities with all partners, create an understanding of our

[2:15:37] Voice 40: incident command system, clarifying alerting and notification procedures, documenting logistics

[2:15:43] Voice 40: and geographically specific information, and incorporating any unique risks into environmental

[2:15:49] Voice 40: response. Okay,

[2:15:52] Voice 40: Corey, could you go to the next slide? So basically, there are eight integrated

[2:15:57] Voice 40: environmental response plans for the entire coast of BC, and they include Haida Gwaii, North Coast,

[2:16:05] Voice 40: Central Coast, North Vancouver Island, West Vancouver Island, Georgia Strait,

[2:16:10] Voice 40: Juan de Fuca, and Greater Vancouver. So Corey's responsible for West Vancouver Island. Can we

[2:16:17] Voice 40: just go back to the previous slide, Corey? Thanks. Corey's responsible for West Vancouver Island

[2:16:22] Voice 40: and Juan de Fuca and I am responsible for Georgia Strait and Greater Vancouver. And then the

[2:16:29] Voice 40: arrangements for the other four areas are currently under discussion with local First Nations. Okay,

[2:16:36] Voice 40: Corey? So basically how it works is national policies are set by Transport Canada and they

[2:16:43] Voice 40: provide the guidelines and regulatory structure for the preparedness response to marine oil

[2:16:48] Voice 40: spills. And then Coast Guard implements these policies into its marine spill contingency plans

[2:16:53] Voice 40: and this includes our national and western region chapters as well as area response plans.

[2:16:59] Voice 40: And then local plans or more tactical and they can include things such as geographic response

[2:17:05] Voice 40: strategies. So the 2021 area response plans are currently in the process of being signed off by

[2:17:16] Voice 40: our system commissioner and they are going to be made public in the next coming weeks.

[2:17:20] Voice 40: So they're finished up, they're pretty much ready to go, we're just getting approval on those, and they are going to include information on alerting and notification procedures, steps for activating a coordinated response, as well as any new appendices

[2:17:34] Voice 40: and annexes for area-specific content. And then following the plans being made public, we're going to then roll into new plan development activities.

[2:17:44] Voice 40: And this is what me and Corey do on a daily basis, but when we, when the plans are updated

[2:17:49] Voice 40: and we're rolling into establishing our working groups, conducting workshops and getting out

[2:17:55] Voice 40: there and meeting primarily with our First Nations groups in order to continue the regular

[2:18:01] Voice 40: updating process.

[2:18:07] Voice 40: Next slide.

[2:18:09] Voice 40: So where does the Gulf Islands kind of fit in this planning area?

[2:18:13] Voice 40: So Juan de Fuca contains the majority of the Gulf Islands, but some of these islands are

[2:18:17] Voice 40: also included into the Georgia Strait area and that's why both myself and Corey are here today.

[2:18:22] Voice 40: So in principle and practice any major incidents at or near the boundary between planning areas

[2:18:27] Voice 40: they're going to involve participants from both areas. So notification of a major spill say in

[2:18:33] Voice 40: the Georgia Strait or the northeast portion of the Juan de Fuca area would go to Georgia Strait

[2:18:38] Voice 40: and the Juan de Fuca contact list so we'd reach out to both areas and then representatives from

[2:18:43] Voice 40: both areas would be included into an incident command post as well. So it kind of lies on the

[2:18:48] Voice 40: border there. So this is an example basically of the table of contents or what our area response

[2:19:01] Voice 40: plans look like. These are the four main chapters. Basically the first is chapter 1000. It's the

[2:19:10] Voice 40: intent of the plan and what this is it gives a purpose and provides the scope and overview of

[2:19:14] Voice 40: the plan area as well as how it's related to our other plans and then we have chapter 2000 which

[2:19:20] Voice 40: describes response capacity of the area plan as well as information on training and exercising

[2:19:27] Voice 40: and that's a big part training and exercising falls hand in hand with area response planning

[2:19:32] Voice 40: so once we update the plans we approve them and put them out then we go into exercising and

[2:19:37] Voice 40: training of those and then chapter 3000 gives detail on the response cycle and how it operates

[2:19:43] Voice 40: as well as some of the key elements of response such as information um on say volunteer waste

[2:19:49] Voice 40: management as well as demobilization plans and then chapter 4000 explains how the plan updating

[2:19:56] Voice 40: process works and that includes things like post incident reviews so i'll talk a little bit more

[2:20:04] Voice 40: about the the planning training exercising process and how that works so basically there's a

[2:20:09] Voice 40: continuous cycle of planning and then we go training and exercising um and response planning

[2:20:14] Voice 40: includes basically an annual review and updates as well as creating new initiatives and reviewing

[2:20:19] Voice 40: our plans for accuracy and then our joint response training basically is delivered by Coast Guard

[2:20:26] Voice 40: and any external partners and support supports our local response readiness and then integrated

[2:20:32] Voice 40: response exercise assists in building these skills and relationships so it cycles through

[2:20:37] Voice 40: the planning areas we do those exercises through different areas at different years and then this

[2:20:44] Voice 40: cycle continues yearly. So right now, like I had mentioned, we're in the process of we have the 2021

[2:20:50] Voice 40: plans updated, and they're just about to come out. So that's where we are currently in the cycle.

[2:20:57] Voice 40: I'll talk a little bit more about partner roles and responsibilities and where everybody's

[2:21:03] Voice 40: kind of fits into this. So basically, who are the partners and what are their roles and

[2:21:07] Voice 40: responsibilities? So our partners can include lead federal departments, the province, First Nations

[2:21:14] Voice 40: and local governments, among others, such as basically response organizations, as well as

[2:21:20] Voice 40: the polluter. Our lead federal partners, they include Transport Canada, of course, Canadian

[2:21:26] Voice 40: Coast Guard, Environment and Climate Change Canada. Transport Canada is our lead for basically

[2:21:33] Voice 40: legislative and regulatory oversight, and they also take care of certification of response

[2:21:39] Voice 40: organizations. And then as Coast Guard, we're the lead for federal agency for ensuring an

[2:21:45] Voice 40: appropriate response to any marine pollution incidents. And then ECCC, they basically provide

[2:21:52] Voice 40: scientific advice and technical support, and they also work and get support from Fisheries and

[2:21:58] Voice 40: Oceans Canada. And then so the government of BC is basically who is going to notify municipal

[2:22:05] Voice 40: governments of incidents through EMBC and they'd also take the land on uh lead on land-based

[2:22:12] Voice 40: spills so what while Corey explained our notification process you guys would actually

[2:22:18] Voice 40: receive notification from us and then you'd also receive notification through EMBC um the actual

[2:22:25] Voice 40: uh I guess line of communication is the notification through EMBC but we have noted

[2:22:32] Voice 40: to our added municipalities to our notification list so you you may end up getting the same

[2:22:38] Voice 40: information twice but it's the information that we've collected and then provided through EMBC

[2:22:43] Voice 40: so you might you may get it from us and you may also get it through them as well

[2:22:47] Voice 40: and then we have our first nation communities and then their role is obviously to create maintain

[2:22:51] Voice 40: community response plans outlying how their communities will mobilize and protect territories

[2:22:56] Voice 40: and basically also provide local area of concerns and traditional ecological knowledge.

[2:23:03] Voice 40: They also can provide personal logistical support and tactical assets and response.

[2:23:08] Voice 40: And then as local government, as you would likely know, would create and maintain local

[2:23:13] Voice 40: all-hazard emergency plans and provide information on local areas of logistical support.

[2:23:19] Voice 40: And then we also have other organizations such as WCMRC and as well as the polluter

[2:23:25] Voice 40: would kind of fall into partner roles. So WCMRC is Western Canada Marine Response Corporation

[2:23:31] Voice 40: and it's an industry funded organization that Sarah had briefly spoke about earlier that

[2:23:36] Voice 40: provides cleanup services and then we'd have the polluter which would be who caused the spill

[2:23:40] Voice 40: and the polluter could be unknown, they could be unwilling or potentially could even be unable to

[2:23:46] Voice 40: respond but they do hold financial responsibility for all reasonable costs in an incident.

[2:23:51] Voice 40: it so then we thought we would share with you basically this is our work plan for the year so

[2:23:58] Voice 40: me and cory have uh just worked on over the past couple months what the rest of our year is going

[2:24:04] Voice 40: to look like and what we're going to be working on um so starting in october we will start our

[2:24:11] Voice 40: initial workshop where we present and review the work plan for the year and in november we're going

[2:24:17] Voice 40: to discuss lessons learned from blight island shipwreck um since that took a significant part

[2:24:22] Voice 40: part of the past year, and then how we're going to incorporate this information through

[2:24:27] Voice 40: lessons learned into future ARPs, and that falls back into our process of planning, exercising.

[2:24:34] Voice 40: And then New Year will involve a review of the initial response phase as well, so we're

[2:24:39] Voice 40: going to go through some of that, do some workshops on how the initial response phase

[2:24:43] Voice 40: works and how notifications are activated, as well as a potential tabletop exercise that

[2:24:48] Voice 40: we'd like to do in the new year and this work plan is just tentative and it can change as we progress

[2:24:53] Voice 40: throughout the year but this is enough idea of what our rest of our year would kind of look like

[2:25:01] Voice 40: so um we hope this presentation has provided an overview response as well as the area response

[2:25:06] Voice 40: plans and everyone's role in response and we'd like now to move into a question period and you

[2:25:12] Voice 40: can also email myself or corey or sarah if you have anything later that you would like to if

[2:25:17] Voice 40: we think about anything later that you'd like to reach out and ask questions on

[2:25:25] Voice 32: very good thank

[2:25:26] Trustee Luckham: you um let me pull up my list here i see a couple of hands come up um so uh trustee

[2:25:34] Trustee Luckham: uh alan uh hornby island yeah

[2:25:38] Trustee Allen: hi thank you for your uh presentation um i have a couple questions

[2:25:41] Trustee Allen: regarding um response in terms of how do you determine the cleanup process uh in terms of

[2:25:48] Trustee Allen: containment booms are you still are we using dispersant because i have concerns over dispersant

[2:25:56] Trustee Allen: it doesn't necessarily remove the oil it just disperses it and sometimes makes it even worse so

[2:26:02] Trustee Allen: that's my first question um no question no answer okay how

[2:26:09] Voice 19: about it's on it we didn't want to

[2:26:11] Voice 19: interrupt you oh okay i thought i'd just give you one question do you want us to answer that first

[2:26:16] Voice 19: question first and then that'll

[2:26:17] Trustee Allen: be easier or i'll give you the second one too uh

[2:26:20] Voice 19: no let's answer the

[2:26:21] Voice 19: first one first um we actually sorry cory did you want to answer or do you want me to since i'm

[2:26:26] Voice 19: talking

[2:26:26] Voice 2: anyway go for it if you want

[2:26:27] Voice 19: um so i'll start with the second half of yours right i just

[2:26:31] Voice 19: didn't want to interrupt you in the middle of a thought um the second half of your question

[2:26:35] Voice 19: about dispersants um right now they're not part of our arsenal of response um there's a lot of

[2:26:42] Voice 19: approval processes that have to be gone through in order like with environment canada in order

[2:26:46] Voice 19: to be able to use them same goes for in-situ burning which is another one that comes up often

[2:26:51] Voice 19: in conversations. As for what is used, what methodology we use, there's actual, we have a

[2:27:00] Voice 19: manual that depending on what the product is in the water, there's standards for which equipment

[2:27:06] Voice 19: to be used. A lot of it is training, knowledge. They can talk. This is where it's important for

[2:27:14] Voice 19: us to be able to speak with our Environment and Climate Change Canada partners where they can

[2:27:19] Voice 19: and give us more information

[2:27:20] Voice 19: after they've done some sampling,

[2:27:21] Voice 19: give us some more information

[2:27:22] Voice 19: about the makeup of the product in the water.

[2:27:25] Voice 19: So yeah, there are, we've got,

[2:27:27] Voice 19: it's not at hand right now, it's in my office

[2:27:29] Voice 19: and I'm obviously at home office right now,

[2:27:31] Voice 19: but there's like a guide that we use

[2:27:33] Voice 19: that tells us use this skimmer with this type of product

[2:27:36] Voice 19: and the skimmer with this other type of product.

[2:27:39] Voice 19: So does that answer your question?

[2:27:41] Trustee Allen: Yes, it does.

[2:27:41] Trustee Allen: And my second question is

[2:27:44] Trustee Allen: the U.S. National Contingency Plan,

[2:27:46] Trustee Allen: they have a beach is considered clean

[2:27:48] Trustee Allen: if it contains less than one percent of oil visible in a one square meter sampling is that

[2:27:55] Trustee Allen: the same measure as we have in canada i'm

[2:28:00] Voice 19: not aware of the

[2:28:00] Voice 19: measure sorry i think this is why

[2:28:02] Voice 19: i'm afraid of interrupting because there's a delay sorry keep talking i

[2:28:06] Trustee Allen: just wondered is there

[2:28:07] Trustee Allen: that kind of measure that in canada in terms of how much oil is cleaned up on a beach and

[2:28:13] Trustee Allen: what's deemed actually cleaned up and not cleaned up is yes

[2:28:16] Voice 19: we actually well it's i don't know that

[2:28:18] Voice 19: there's a specific measure off i'm unmuted right offhand there's there's and maybe cory can jump

[2:28:24] Voice 19: in here if he knows more than i do about this but um we do have something called the shoreline

[2:28:29] Voice 19: cleanup assessment technique manual we do have training that can be undergone um to to gain that

[2:28:37] Voice 19: information as part of the response there are discussions about what we call end points so

[2:28:44] Voice 19: So that point, exactly what you just said, that measure, at which point they determined that there's no more response required.

[2:28:50] Voice 19: But then I know Environment and Climate Change Canada is working on a policy or is hoping to work on a policy, excuse me, on recovery, because that could also factor in there is, you know, where do you need to return the, obviously you want it back to pristine condition, but where do you need to return the environment to in order to have food fishery or anything like that?

[2:29:14] Voice 19: So these are all part of the interdepartmental discussion because not all of that is our

[2:29:20] Voice 19: skill set. We rely on other skill sets for that such as Fisheries and Oceans and Environment

[2:29:26] Voice 19: and Climate Change Canada. And I'm just going to add a little detail in here. You hear us talking

[2:29:30] Voice 19: about Coast Guard and Fisheries and Oceans separately. Coast Guard is a special operating

[2:29:35] Voice 19: agency under the Department of Fisheries and Oceans but operationally speaking we are separate.

[2:29:41] Voice 19: So they have the science skill set that we don't have.

[2:29:44] Voice 19: We rely on them and environment and climate and ACCC for that.

[2:29:48] Voice 19: So does that answer your question?

[2:29:50] Voice 19: So there's not an actual standard that I'm aware of unless Corey wants to jump in if he's aware of one.

[2:29:56] Voice 13: My understanding is that it would be it would be a procedural decision by the

[2:30:00] Voice 13: environmental unit of a particular response so it would it would depend on the the nature and

[2:30:04] Voice 13: composition of the beach because sometimes cleanup methods can do more harm than good

[2:30:08] Voice 13: if you're boiling every single rock to clean it of oil they've done a lot of studies that show that

[2:30:13] Voice 13: over response can actually um inhibit the the recovery of of a shoreline um so they would they

[2:30:21] Voice 13: would do really site-specific um research and and make that determination based on on the best

[2:30:28] Voice 13: science for that area, so I don't think they would set out a number in advance of actually looking at the shoreline in question.

[2:30:36] Voice 42: Okay, thank you.

[2:30:38] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, did you have a second question trustee Allen.

[2:30:42] Trustee Allen: No, that was my second Thank you.

[2:30:44] Trustee Luckham: Okay, thank you so then trustee Critchley Denman and then trustee Fenton Cedis.

[2:30:51] Trustee Critchley: Thank you.

[2:30:51] Trustee Critchley: A few years ago, I attended an oil spill response workshop in Nanaimo, and I believe if my

[2:31:01] Trustee Critchley: recollection is correct, I encountered a rather surprising to me and somewhat depressing statistic

[2:31:08] Trustee Critchley: that the best that could hope to be achieved in the case of a major oil spill was a recovery of

[2:31:16] Trustee Critchley: of about 10% of the oil spilled.

[2:31:19] Trustee Critchley: I'm wondering if I've got that correct.

[2:31:22] Trustee Critchley: And secondly, since then,

[2:31:26] Trustee Critchley: have there been advances in the technology

[2:31:30] Trustee Critchley: for the recovery of spilled oil?

[2:31:32] Trustee Critchley: And if so, is there equipment that the Coast Guard

[2:31:37] Trustee Critchley: or the private contractor can acquire

[2:31:42] Trustee Critchley: or will be acquiring in order to look at improving the recovery rate of spilled oil

[2:31:51] Trustee Critchley: in the trust area. Thank you.

[2:31:58] Voice 2: Sarah, do you want to take the line or do you want me to take it?

[2:32:01] Voice 19: You go ahead. Short answer is yes, there's always research being done. I think I've heard that

[2:32:12] Voice 19: statistic too i'm racking my brain in the context in the context i wouldn't have been the same

[2:32:18] Voice 19: context but um a lot of it could be and i'll let cory do some more talking here he's much better

[2:32:24] Voice 19: at this than i am um but it could be that some of the the product dissipates that kind of thing

[2:32:29] Voice 19: again it depends on the product i think so cory yeah

[2:32:32] Voice 13: no i've i've heard similar statistics kind

[2:32:35] Voice 13: of between 10 and 30 percent would be considered a successful recovery um you know which is frankly

[2:32:42] Voice 13: why there's a lot of focus on prevention because nobody wants to be out there cleaning up oil.

[2:32:48] Voice 13: We'd rather not have it spill in the first place. There is definitely always technological

[2:32:55] Voice 13: advancement in spill response. We're constantly

[2:32:59] Voice 13: acquiring new fancy equipment that we can try out

[2:33:02] Voice 13: and I know WCMRC is ramping up their stuff and getting new equipment. But at the end of the day,

[2:33:08] Voice 13: um recovering oil off the water is is difficult um and in part because it does it does dissipate

[2:33:15] Voice 13: on its own um so we might recover 20 of it um as sarah said in part because it's it's broken up by

[2:33:22] Voice 13: the waves or by the wind or by by the sun before we can collect it um so it's not to say that 90

[2:33:29] Voice 13: or 80 of it ends up on a beach somewhere it's that it it's that it's naturally dispersed into

[2:33:34] Voice 13: the ocean um but uh yeah no it's it's uh it's not something that it's not it's not something

[2:33:41] Voice 13: we ever want to be doing we'd rather not have ever have to respond to an oil spill because they

[2:33:45] Voice 13: they aren't happening because it is uh it is a lot of a lot of product that just can't be collected

[2:33:50] Voice 13: um with with existing technology um

[2:33:54] Trustee Luckham: thank you uh trustee fenton thetis yeah

[2:34:00] Trustee Fenton: thank you for this

[2:34:01] Trustee Fenton: I just wanted how successful are you recovering any of your cleanup costs or is that you know

[2:34:09] Trustee Fenton: just a political statement or is it actually something that you're quite able to do in your

[2:34:16] Trustee Fenton: post cleanup so

[2:34:19] Voice 19: I can answer this one Corey if you want or Stephanie um so there are

[2:34:30] Voice 19: First of all, we hope that the polluter is on scene

[2:34:34] Voice 19: and actually paying for some of the response,

[2:34:38] Voice 19: if not all of the response, depending on their capability.

[2:34:42] Voice 19: So that's our first step.

[2:34:44] Voice 19: Coast Guard itself is not, believe it or not,

[2:34:48] Voice 19: we don't have the budget to respond.

[2:34:49] Voice 19: So we do rely on cost recovery.

[2:34:54] Voice 19: It doesn't mean we're not paying our people.

[2:34:56] Voice 19: It just means that we use other means to recover our costs.

[2:34:59] Voice 19: Under the Marine Liability Act, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans deferred to the Canadian Coast Guard does have certain metrics that we need to, or what's the wrong word, benchmarks that we need to meet in order to be able to recover our costs.

[2:35:15] Voice 19: That being said, this is, I'm getting to a point here, is we do have relatively good success in the Canadian Coast Guard at recovering our costs through the Ship Source Oil Pollution Fund because we are mandated to do what we do.

[2:35:28] Voice 19: and and we can often um prove the reasonableness which is the the criteria that the ship source

[2:35:36] Voice 19: oil pollution fund sets is they they ask them to be reasonable costs we can we can prove that

[2:35:41] Voice 19: but this is why we encourage uh municipalities in the vancouver area have had some trouble

[2:35:47] Voice 19: trouble recovering costs following the marathasa or english bay as we call it spill um we were

[2:35:54] Voice 19: were able to recover about 75 or 80 cents on the dollar there. Whereas I heard the city of Vancouver

[2:35:59] Voice 19: was only able to recover 25 cents on the dollar. I could, that could be old information. Don't quote

[2:36:03] Voice 19: me. Um, but, uh, that's because we were able to prove that we were responding in certain ways to

[2:36:12] Voice 19: the incident itself. Whereas, uh, the city of Vancouver had launched their own response and

[2:36:19] Voice 19: had more of a challenge proving that reasonableness to the ship source oil pollution fund. I'm not

[2:36:23] Voice 19: saying that we don't think it's reasonable it's the fund itself so when we when we started

[2:36:28] Voice 19: encouraging folks to do response planning with us and then also integrate in the response with us

[2:36:34] Voice 19: that's where uh it becomes a little i don't want to say easier but it becomes a little bit more

[2:36:41] Voice 19: of a direct line to be able to recover costs so first nations i'm going to use them as an example

[2:36:46] Voice 19: so if we work with a nation and they respond um with coast guard and hopefully we can help them

[2:36:52] Voice 19: recover their costs more easily because we've been doing it together because the

[2:36:57] Voice 19: objectives for the response are the same. We obviously want to clear as much

[2:37:01] Voice 19: pollution as possible. Yeah it's it's it's not a political it's a political

[2:37:06] Voice 19: statement but it's not it's it's just a challenge of the the system that we have

[2:37:10] Voice 19: in Canada. It is different from in the US. The US fund will pay money out initially

[2:37:16] Voice 19: at the beginning of a response. We don't have that in the Coast Guard. We do have to do

[2:37:20] Voice 19: cost recovery did i answer your question i feel like i talked around it a little bit but i was

[2:37:24] Voice 19: trying to answer no

[2:37:25] Trustee Fenton: it's obviously not black and white um but not a piece of that then is so the

[2:37:30] Trustee Fenton: polluter at the end of the day sounds like you guys go through more work than the polluter does

[2:37:36] Trustee Fenton: and you know what's the penalty there's no penalty to them in a sense because there's a fund cleaning

[2:37:42] Trustee Fenton: up or paying for their cleanup oh

[2:37:44] Voice 19: no they have to they don't go to the fund we go to the fund if

[2:37:48] Voice 19: they're not paying for it sorry i didn't i clearly

[2:37:50] Trustee Fenton: okay so but they do pay you if you go out

[2:37:58] Trustee Fenton: yeah

[2:37:58] Voice 19: they we can recover costs from the polluter or we can recover costs from the fund

[2:38:02] Voice 19: depending on the circumstances if the polluter is on scene this is why you know for the and i

[2:38:09] Voice 19: hate to use specific examples but we had one incident in central bc i won't use the specific

[2:38:15] Voice 19: one but i think you'll know what i'm talking about there was an american company that were doing

[2:38:19] Voice 19: uh they had the articulate tug and barge that was going up the inside passage um that company

[2:38:25] Voice 19: itself took responsibility they paid for the nation they paid for coast guard we were able

[2:38:31] Voice 19: to recover costs from them even something as simple as my overtime that i worked in the regional

[2:38:38] Voice 19: operations center that that weekend after the incident first started got sent to them and they

[2:38:42] Voice 19: paid for it okay

[2:38:43] Trustee Fenton: so and so there is some effective recovery there

[2:38:48] Voice 19: is some but we include it for

[2:38:50] Voice 19: coast guard yes i would encourage anybody else responding to a spill to work as much with coast

[2:38:56] Voice 19: guard as possible because we can help um ease that along the way as well if it's being done

[2:39:02] Voice 19: independent of the coast guard response it becomes more difficult to prove the reasonableness of the

[2:39:07] Voice 19: response puts more onus on the person trying to prove that i suppose is what i'm saying

[2:39:12] Voice 19: Okay,

[2:39:14] Trustee Luckham: thank you. Trustee Brent, Soterna Island.

[2:39:18] Voice 5: Hi, thank you for your presentation. It's been interesting. So, in developing response plans,

[2:39:25] Voice 5: does the Coast Guard have different criteria? For instance, if a fish boat is in trouble or

[2:39:31] Voice 5: going down versus one that, say, a double-hulled tanker, given the risk profiles of those two

[2:39:42] Voice 5: types of vessels for instance no

[2:39:46] Voice 19: uh this is no we do not have a different criteria our response

[2:39:50] Voice 19: plan is no matter the incident no matter what type of vessel it is um one thing we are we just

[2:39:55] Voice 19: actually had this had a meeting just before this one with our interdepartmental folks so dfo

[2:40:00] Voice 19: transport canada and e triple c um to discuss the fact that our plans are very focused on a larger

[2:40:08] Voice 19: scale incident and our operations folks want a bit more guidance on how to to respond to an

[2:40:15] Voice 19: everyday um the fishing boat the pleasure craft that's gone up because we don't want to treat it

[2:40:21] Voice 19: as if as if it's less important or critical because a hundred liter spill from a pleasure

[2:40:29] Voice 19: craft could have as more significant effect in a um culturally sensitive area for example

[2:40:36] Voice 19: than that 1,000-litre or that double-hulled tanker

[2:40:40] Voice 19: that's gone aground that has less of a risk of polluting

[2:40:42] Voice 19: because it's double-hulled, right?

[2:40:45] Voice 19: They've got different product in the water

[2:40:46] Voice 19: and that kind of thing.

[2:40:47] Voice 19: So no, we don't

[2:40:49] Voice 19: really treat them differently.

[2:40:51] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[2:40:54] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Rogers, I see your hand up.

[2:40:56] Trustee Rogers: Thanks very much.

[2:40:57] Trustee Rogers: And thank you for your presentation.

[2:41:01] Trustee Rogers: My question is this, as you may know,

[2:41:03] Trustee Rogers: know that Islands Trust is not a service-providing organization. We won't be one of the ones

[2:41:10] Trustee Rogers: responding with any kind of equipment or response people, but could you just sort of maybe talk a

[2:41:17] Trustee Rogers: little bit about what assistance in your planning process or in a response process an organization

[2:41:25] Trustee Rogers: that doesn't have response capability could provide, either in terms of information or

[2:41:31] Trustee Rogers: or or other assistance okay

[2:41:37] Voice 19: i'm going to answer a very high level and then i'll let cory jump in

[2:41:40] Voice 19: and stephanie as well if they've got any more detailed response um certainly as as you know

[2:41:45] Voice 19: yourself um in the plans themselves we're trying to put as much information in there to inform

[2:41:51] Voice 19: the responders and that doesn't necessarily have to be just coast guard that could be anybody

[2:41:55] Voice 19: who would be responding regardless of your if it's first nations or wcmrc or anybody else

[2:42:02] Voice 19: um about sensitivities in the area so if you i'm not aware of what skill sets you have in this

[2:42:09] Voice 19: group or what knowledge base you might have um if you've got someone that knows a lot about an

[2:42:15] Voice 19: ecologically sensitive area in um your trustee area is that the right way to phrase it in in

[2:42:21] Voice 19: islands trust area um yes we're aware you may not be the service provider but we don't we don't

[2:42:30] Voice 19: discriminate if we if we can get information about the area as part of the response planning

[2:42:36] Voice 19: process that gives us that preparedness then the response part can be handled by the people who

[2:42:42] Voice 19: have that that mandate to do that but using the information to inform them um cory i know i

[2:42:48] Voice 19: cory's been talking to a lot of our ops folks following by island um and uh stephanie is

[2:42:57] Voice 19: is getting up to speed herself as well.

[2:43:00] Voice 19: We've been learning a lot about what would be useful

[2:43:02] Voice 19: for our folks that are on the ground, in the car,

[2:43:06] Voice 19: on the boat, on the way to a scene,

[2:43:08] Voice 19: what kind of information they need initially.

[2:43:10] Voice 19: So if we came back to this group and said,

[2:43:12] Voice 19: do you have more information to share?

[2:43:15] Voice 19: That would probably be our approach.

[2:43:18] Voice 19: Corey or Steph, anything that you wanted to add?

[2:43:21] Voice 13: Yeah, just as a symphony of weed whackers

[2:43:24] Voice 13: has started outside my window here.

[2:43:25] Voice 13: So apologies for the background noise,

[2:43:27] Voice 13: but um yeah so so that's that's exactly right we we would you know in advance of a response

[2:43:35] Voice 13: the more information we can collect about things like where we can where we can stage equipment or

[2:43:40] Voice 13: people um you know if there's a there's a town hall uh on an island where we could set up an

[2:43:45] Voice 13: incident command post if there's you know a local fishing area that that were may not be on our

[2:43:51] Voice 13: radar because it's a you know semi-secret fishing area but uh but local people are aware of it so

[2:43:57] Voice 13: That's the kind of information that ideally we'd like to have in response so that our incident commanders can refer to it quickly and get set up.

[2:44:07] Voice 13: And then failing that, you know, just having contact information for people we can reach out to during an incident and including them wherever possible into our incident command post.

[2:44:17] Voice 13: So maybe someone from Islands Trust could be in a logistics role, either leading or supporting,

[2:44:25] Voice 13: because they're going to be more aware of where to get groceries or where to launch a boat

[2:44:28] Voice 13: on an island than our duty officers might be, or that sort of thing. Or in the environmental unit

[2:44:35] Voice 13: in an incident command post, again, providing information about sensitive areas, that sort

[2:44:40] Voice 13: of thing. So yeah, there's definitely lots of roles both before and during an incident that

[2:44:44] Voice 13: even a non-service providing organization can can provide okay

[2:44:51] Trustee Luckham: thank you for that answer um i see

[2:44:55] Trustee Luckham: trustee brent's hand is still up but i'm going to go to trustee patrick and it would appear that

[2:45:00] Trustee Luckham: trustee langrise's question was answered um and then we've got a few minutes remaining before

[2:45:05] Trustee Luckham: we go for our lunch plate so it'd be wonderful if we catch up with the rest of our agenda if

[2:45:09] Trustee Luckham: there's nothing else to hear or ask trustee patrick i

[2:45:13] Trustee Patrick: just again i want to thank you i i

[2:45:15] Trustee Patrick: I sat in a couple of the Juan de Fuca meetings and thank Trustee Rogers for finding all the

[2:45:21] Trustee Patrick: time to go to all the meetings because you did have a lot of meetings and that was good.

[2:45:25] Trustee Patrick: I think what's important for trustees, I mean, like, you know, Salt Spring's a little bit

[2:45:29] Trustee Patrick: larger.

[2:45:30] Trustee Patrick: We do have an emergency service provided by CRD right here on the island.

[2:45:33] Trustee Patrick: But when you get to the smaller islands, you don't have that.

[2:45:36] Trustee Patrick: And I think it's how we plug in when, if there is, God forbid, an incident off of your

[2:45:42] Trustee Patrick: Island, the media will be searching you out and you'll be on the phone with CBC or Czech

[2:45:48] Trustee Patrick: News or somebody having to answer the question.

[2:45:50] Trustee Patrick: I think what's important is that we know how to plug in, how to get the information and

[2:45:54] Trustee Patrick: so forth.

[2:45:55] Trustee Patrick: And the other issue is that if there is oil on your beach or threat of oil on your beach,

[2:46:00] Trustee Patrick: your residents are going to be flooding down there to do everything they can to save and

[2:46:04] Trustee Patrick: fight the impending problem.

[2:46:07] Trustee Patrick: So this is an opportunity and I think we need to find how to plug in, especially on the smaller islands that don't have that those regional district services, highly active.

[2:46:21] Voice 19: Sorry, can I jump in here really quickly sorry to interrupt.

[2:46:24] Voice 19: Um, you just brought up a very good point sorry I'm losing track of who's speaking so I'm apologizing I'm not going to use your name but, um,

[2:46:30] Voice 19: Um, uh, the volunteer piece is key for us because for safety reasons and other reasons,

[2:46:38] Voice 19: we really want to keep people away from the beach.

[2:46:41] Voice 19: So that might be an ideal way that we can, um, like you say, learn how to, to, to connect

[2:46:46] Voice 19: with each other and then communicate what's being done for what we call convergent volunteers.

[2:46:52] Voice 19: So those, those, those folks that want to come down to the beach and start helping wildlife

[2:46:57] Voice 19: life or anything like that we actually have groups that look after the wildlife so we can

[2:47:04] Voice 19: put them together and there's there's they can be volunteers for them answer phones um be taught

[2:47:10] Voice 19: how to clean wildlife down the road if it comes to that i've gone we're going worst case scenario

[2:47:14] Voice 19: here but uh definitely that is is somewhere if you've got a location where you don't have a

[2:47:21] Voice 19: regional district or other um government that we're used to working with um but you can help

[2:47:27] Voice 19: with that type of messaging that would be great we do also have information that that we've got

[2:47:33] Voice 19: public information basically or we call it communications public information officer

[2:47:37] Voice 19: however you want to phrase it it's called different things in different contexts but

[2:47:40] Voice 19: we do have messaging that will be going out from the unified command and on what people can do to

[2:47:46] Voice 19: help out.

[2:47:51] Trustee Luckham: Very good. I want to thank you for your presentation today. I feel obligated just

[2:47:58] Trustee Luckham: to mention that that volunteer desire to help out in an oil spill, the one thing that you don't want

[2:48:04] Trustee Luckham: to do is track oil on your gumboots through your community and back to your homes and your families.

[2:48:09] Trustee Luckham: Yes. Really

[2:48:09] Trustee Luckham: an important component to that that is not necessarily well understood. I also will

[2:48:15] Trustee Luckham: We'll just note that I was very pleased to see the WCMRC event this year in Polar Pass to evaluate their ability to respond and also simulate a spill situation.

[2:48:31] Trustee Luckham: And the technology and the performance of the teams out there was very good and pleased to see many of those.

[2:48:38] Trustee Luckham: If any of you have a chance to see one of those events happening, you can watch it online or watch it from the shorelines.

[2:48:46] Trustee Luckham: it's quite impressive.

[2:48:47] Trustee Luckham: So do you have any closing remarks?

[2:48:49] Trustee Luckham: Otherwise, we'll thank you

[2:48:50] Trustee Luckham: and we'll continue on with some other business.

[2:48:52] Voice 19: No, no, thank you for really good questions.

[2:48:55] Voice 19: These are, it's really great to hear

[2:48:57] Voice 19: what people's questions are

[2:48:58] Voice 19: because that helps inform us moving forward,

[2:49:01] Voice 19: something that we might need to bring up in a meeting.

[2:49:02] Voice 19: So thank you very much for all the questions

[2:49:04] Voice 19: and for listening to us.

[2:49:06] Voice 19: And Stephanie or Corey, anything you wanted to add?

[2:49:09] Voice 40: Just say thanks for having us here.

[2:49:12] Voice 40: We enjoy it.

[2:49:13] Voice 40: Great, thank you.

[2:49:15] Voice 19: it's great to be getting back out talking to people again have a good rest of the day we'll

[2:49:19] Voice 19: leave you and have a good rest of the day yeah dan did you have any

[2:49:21] Trustee Luckham: closing remark for our guests

[2:49:23] Trustee Rogers: i just wanted to reiterate something for trustees so that you're aware uh while we just to follow

[2:49:29] Trustee Rogers: up on what sarah was saying about and what trustee vice chair patrick was saying um while we we have

[2:49:35] Trustee Rogers: a we have been sharing information and local information from a trust level with the coast

[2:49:40] Trustee Rogers: guard i hope i think that was the plan anyway about eelgrass mapping and sensitive areas and

[2:49:44] Trustee Rogers: all of that stuff's been done we don't have a function within the trust to um to circle it down

[2:49:52] Trustee Rogers: this information or to get the information down to the local local trust level and i just want

[2:49:58] Trustee Rogers: to make sure trustees are aware of that we just don't have a function or a system to do that

[2:50:02] Trustee Rogers: because we haven't addressed that because we're not a response uh it's sort of been done by myself

[2:50:07] Trustee Rogers: and by Claire and by Vice Chair Patrick

[2:50:09] Trustee Rogers: and to a certain extent in terms of keeping a track

[2:50:12] Trustee Rogers: on some of this stuff.

[2:50:13] Trustee Rogers: So we might want to discuss that

[2:50:15] Trustee Rogers: whether we want to have a way to get the information

[2:50:18] Trustee Rogers: to Saturna or North Pender or Gabriola

[2:50:22] Trustee Rogers: or wherever the spill might be

[2:50:24] Trustee Rogers: so that they can have the kind of access

[2:50:26] Trustee Rogers: to local information,

[2:50:29] Trustee Rogers: get to a trustee or to the right person on the island

[2:50:33] Trustee Rogers: because we're often the best people on the island

[2:50:35] Trustee Rogers: and to know who those functions are.

[2:50:37] Trustee Rogers: So I just raised that.

[2:50:39] Trustee Rogers: Thanks again, Sarah, for all of your work and your team.

[2:50:43] Trustee Rogers: Thank you.

[2:50:45] Voice 19: Yes, we've got a lot of people working on this very hard

[2:50:47] Voice 19: and thanks again.

[2:50:50] Trustee Luckham: Okay, thank you again for coming today

[2:50:53] Trustee Luckham: and everybody for your questions and interest in this topic.

[2:50:58] Trustee Luckham: Council, I would like to go to item 6.2.3

[2:51:02] Trustee Luckham: that we didn't get to before the break,

[2:51:04] Trustee Luckham: the policy direction NAPTEP fees request for decision.

[2:51:08] Trustee Luckham: I'm going to ask Kate Louise Stamford,

[2:51:12] Trustee Luckham: chair of the Islands Trust Conservancy to introduce that.

[2:51:16] Trustee Luckham: And then that'll probably get turned to Claire Frater

[2:51:19] Trustee Luckham: for further details.

[2:51:23] Trustee Luckham: Kate Louise, sorry to spring that on you.

[2:51:24] Trustee Luckham: Are you prepared for that?

[2:51:26] Trustee Stamford: Yes, I am. Thank you, sir.

[2:51:27] Trustee Stamford: I'm going to keep my camera off

[2:51:30] Trustee Stamford: just because I tend to slow down otherwise.

[2:51:34] Trustee Stamford: This request for decision was based on a scenario that came up a few months ago about a request for

[2:51:42] Trustee Stamford: support for the costs associated with a NAPTEP covenant. It had never come up before as far

[2:51:49] Trustee Stamford: as we knew. And so there is no mechanism for Trust Council to provide support. And I know

[2:51:58] Trustee Stamford: Executive Committee does have a sponsorship program for certain fees associated with other

[2:52:04] Trustee Stamford: development costs so we brought this request forward um from the island's trust conservancy

[2:52:13] Trustee Stamford: to have that opportunity and that choice should it arise again um i'm not sure if director freder

[2:52:23] Trustee Stamford: would like to add anything no

[2:52:25] Trustee Luckham: director freder doesn't have anything to add so perhaps the most

[2:52:28] Trustee Luckham: effective way to advance this might be to make the motion and then we'll go for discussion

[2:52:34] Trustee Luckham: I

[2:52:34] Trustee Stamford: move that the Islands Trust Council direct staff to develop policy guidance for sponsorship of Natural Area Protection Tax Exemption Program, NAPTEP, applications and return to Trust Council for further review and approval.

[2:52:48] Trustee Luckham: Do I have a second? Trustee Peterson has seconded the motion. Do you wish to speak any further to the motion?

[2:52:55] Trustee Stamford: No, I think the document here is fairly clear.

[2:52:58] Trustee Stamford: Okay,

[2:52:59] Trustee Luckham: very good. Thank you. So I'll look to trustees then. This is direction to create some policy, which we will obviously see at a later date. Are there any questions or comments with respect to this motion?

[2:53:14] Trustee Luckham: No, I can. Oh, there we go. Trustee Morrison. And then Fast and Johnston.

[2:53:19] Trustee Luckham: um

[2:53:20] Trustee Morrison: i i really am happy this motion has come forward because we've had folks on our island

[2:53:25] Trustee Morrison: who have spent an exorbitant amount of money to be able to preserve and conserve land and that

[2:53:31] Trustee Morrison: seems fundamentally in the mission of the islands trust so i'm hoping that this

[2:53:36] Trustee Morrison: provide some options that more people can engage in that kind of work thank you okay thank you

[2:53:42] Trustee Luckham: trustee fast yes

[2:53:44] Trustee Fast: thank you chair i'm i'm uh in support of this as well also as an islands trust

[2:53:49] Trustee Fast: conservancy board member um because i want to remove obstacles from people who have

[2:53:55] Trustee Fast: uh dreams for their land but might not have cash to pay for a survey and they might need some fees

[2:54:01] Trustee Fast: waived for example and uh so this is just a request for staff to come back with a policy

[2:54:09] Trustee Fast: because we have nothing uh we have no policy right now and i'd like to uh i think that'll

[2:54:16] Trustee Fast: help us do our mandate. Thank you. Thank

[2:54:18] Trustee Luckham: you. Trustee Johnston.

[2:54:22] Voice 9: My question is, is this not

[2:54:23] Voice 9: something that the Conservancy's Opportunity Fund could accomplish? I mean, one thing we could do is

[2:54:29] Voice 9: ask for donations to it or make a donation ourselves to it.

[2:54:35] Trustee Stamford: I can jump in. Now, the

[2:54:37] Trustee Stamford: Opportunity Fund is set up for a different type of request, and this is much more in line with

[2:54:46] Trustee Stamford: the the same operating mechanisms that we have to allay fees for certain development costs

[2:54:53] Trustee Stamford: that we have for local trust committees so it is more structured in in that way rather than

[2:55:01] Trustee Stamford: through the opportunity fund and the opportunity fund continues to be incredibly underfinanced

[2:55:09] Trustee Stamford: And the it is an option for private donors to be able to put money into that.

[2:55:18] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Trustee Peterson.

[2:55:23] Voice 7: Thank you, Chair. I'm going to speak in favor of this motion.

[2:55:27] Voice 7: I'm aware of at least one incidence of, you know, an elderly couple who don't have a lot of cash flow interested in in doing some

[2:55:36] Voice 7: uh conservation protection on their property and they're finding it difficult to to finance it out

[2:55:42] Voice 7: of pocket so i'd like uh there to be uh this type of option available for those type of circumstance

[2:55:50] Voice 7: that serves the conservancy uh and the object well thank you thank you

[2:55:56] Trustee Luckham: trustee longer ice and then

[2:55:57] Trustee Luckham: fenton i

[2:55:59] Voice 37: i'm speaking in favor of this motion as well removing barriers to someone wanting to

[2:56:05] Voice 37: to donate something like this seems logical to me.

[2:56:08] Voice 37: We do sponsorship of affordable housing

[2:56:11] Voice 37: and this is another form of sponsorship, which is warranted.

[2:56:15] Voice 37: Thank you, sir.

[2:56:16] Voice 37: Trustee Fenton.

[2:56:18] Trustee Fenton: Just to be brief, just for the support.

[2:56:21] Trustee Fenton: This motion was a member of the board as well that,

[2:56:25] Trustee Fenton: yeah, this is the opportunity fund.

[2:56:28] Trustee Fenton: This cost is in demand.

[2:56:31] Trustee Fenton: It's a different, but it is from a different angle

[2:56:33] Trustee Fenton: on this whole expense element when it comes to donating or preserving land. Thank you.

[2:56:43] Trustee Luckham: Excellent. Thank you, Trustee Fenton. I'm not seeing any other speakers, so I will call the

[2:56:49] Trustee Luckham: vote and ask you to raise your hands if you're in favor of the motion, the recommended motion

[2:56:55] Trustee Luckham: on the screen in front of you. All those in favor, please. And on the phone, are their voices

[2:57:04] Trustee Luckham: is in favor all right so that makes 19 in favor including myself um please lower your hands

[2:57:17] Trustee Luckham: lower your hands please trustee allen and any opposed none opposed that carries unanimously

[2:57:27] Trustee Luckham: thank you very much uh council i'm not going to get between you and your lunch

[2:57:31] Trustee Luckham: um at this point by suggesting we deal with some other business but let's go to our break

[2:57:37] Trustee Luckham: returning at one o'clock and at one o'clock

[2:57:41] Trustee Luckham: we will be getting a vessel drift

[2:57:42] Trustee Luckham: and response analysis presentation from San Juan County.

[2:57:45] Trustee Luckham: We'll also be getting a brief update

[2:57:47] Trustee Luckham: from our friends in the San Juan County Council.

[2:57:51] Trustee Luckham: And then following that,

[2:57:53] Trustee Luckham: just another guest opportunity after that,

[2:57:55] Trustee Luckham: after a further break will be Ruth Simons

[2:57:58] Trustee Luckham: from the Alkitsam House and Biosphere Region Initiative

[2:58:01] Trustee Luckham: is going to address us and really grateful

[2:58:03] Trustee Luckham: that she's been able to find the time to do so.

[2:58:05] Trustee Luckham: So enjoy your lunch and we'll see you at one o'clock sharp.

[2:58:08] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[3:50:58] Voice 32: yes okay yeah that's fine on the edge of vancouver canada this majestic fjord good afternoon uh jamie

[3:53:48] Trustee Luckham: nice to see you good

[3:53:51] Voice 1: afternoon good to see you too yeah

[3:53:53] Trustee Luckham: a long time oh yes yes glad you're here

[3:53:58] Trustee Luckham: and i trust that you and uh your council and your community are well uh

[3:54:03] Voice 1: yes we are we're doing very

[3:54:05] Voice 1: well excellent okay

[3:54:08] Trustee Luckham: so uh i'll just go back offline here for a moment and uh we'll uh we'll

[3:54:13] Trustee Luckham: look forward to hearing from you shortly oh

[3:54:16] Voice 1: great okay i just was checking my camera and

[3:54:18] Voice 1: everything before you got started so yeah

[3:54:21] Voice 15: that's

[3:54:24] Voice 32: great thank you let me get some sound on

[4:00:02] Trustee Luckham: hello everyone council welcome back from lunch thank you for your timeliness i want to welcome

[4:00:11] Trustee Luckham: everybody that's joined us on uh live streaming here um now as well this afternoon um i want to

[4:00:22] Trustee Luckham: acknowledge um that uh well my name is peter luckman i'm chair of violence trust council

[4:00:27] Trustee Luckham: and i'm here in victoria our victoria office in lebanon territory i'm elected and live on

[4:00:34] Trustee Luckham: uh thetis island in familica and laxon territory and uh we have trustees all from all across

[4:00:40] Trustee Luckham: the northern portion of the salish sea and we're sort of in this trans-border uh world that we live

[4:00:48] Trustee Luckham: in a little bit here at the islands trust council and uh our next guests on our agenda are from

[4:00:55] Trustee Luckham: San Juan County. And of course, that includes many other nations, the Lummi come to mind

[4:01:02] Trustee Luckham: around Puget Sound and the Olympic Mountains and Washington State. And so grateful to live

[4:01:10] Trustee Luckham: in this entire coastal, historic coastal First Nations communities, of which the waterways that

[4:01:20] Trustee Luckham: join us all together where the highways and the canoes would travel across vast distances to

[4:01:27] Trustee Luckham: visit trade meet family and friends and the like it's a real pleasure and honor to be here

[4:01:35] Trustee Luckham: so i'm just going to quickly go around the room uh for the benefit of our guests and the benefit

[4:01:41] Trustee Luckham: of people that have joined us for this afternoon's session um with my trustee list here and um

[4:01:48] Trustee Luckham: And maybe I'll just begin by welcoming and acknowledging Marta Green, our vessel drift response analysis presentation.

[4:01:59] Trustee Luckham: Marta, we thank you very much for joining us. Just give us a wave for the public viewing public.

[4:02:06] Trustee Luckham: And I'm also going to acknowledge Jamie Stevens.

[4:02:13] Trustee Luckham: I want to make sure I got that right. Jamie Stevens, a council member of the San Juan County.

[4:02:18] Trustee Luckham: Jamie, really great to see you again.

[4:02:20] Trustee Luckham: We have had a long standing relationship

[4:02:22] Trustee Luckham: with San Juan County through you and your council,

[4:02:24] Trustee Luckham: and it's really great to see you here today.

[4:02:29] Trustee Luckham: So I'm going to continue on just through my list here.

[4:02:32] Trustee Luckham: Alex Allen on Hornby Island, thank you there.

[4:02:37] Trustee Luckham: Paul Brent from Saturna Island.

[4:02:41] Trustee Luckham: Laura Beshaken from Denman Island.

[4:02:46] Trustee Luckham: Scott Coburn from Gabriola Island.

[4:02:49] Trustee Luckham: Hello. David Critchley from Denman Island, Janine Dodds from Maine Island, Sue Ellen Fast from Bowen Island.

[4:03:02] Trustee Luckham: Hello. Doug Fenton from Thetis Island. Hello. Peter Grove from Salt Spring Island.

[4:03:10] Trustee Luckham: Hello. Peter Johnson from Mesquite Island.

[4:03:15] Trustee Luckham: Michael Cale from Bowen Island. Good afternoon.

[4:03:19] Voice 39: Case

[4:03:21] Trustee Luckham: Longerice from Gabriola Island.

[4:03:23] Trustee Luckham: Good afternoon.

[4:03:25] Trustee Luckham: David Maude from Main Island.

[4:03:28] Trustee Luckham: Good afternoon.

[4:03:31] Trustee Luckham: Ben McConkey from North Pender Island.

[4:03:35] Trustee Luckham: Lee Middleton from Saturna Island.

[4:03:40] Trustee Luckham: Deb Morrison from North Pender Island.

[4:03:45] Trustee Luckham: Laura Patrick from Salt Spring Island.

[4:03:47] Trustee Luckham: Greetings from Salt Spring.

[4:03:50] Trustee Luckham: Kim Peterson from Laskete Island. Tahira Rockefeller from Galliano Island.

[4:03:58] Trustee Luckham: Good afternoon. Dan Rogers from Gambier Keats Islands.

[4:04:05] Trustee Luckham: Good afternoon. Grant Scott from Hornby Island.

[4:04:09] Trustee Luckham: Hello. Kate Louise also from

[4:04:12] Trustee Luckham: the Gambier Trust Area Island. Cameron Thorne, South Pender.

[4:04:19] Trustee Luckham: Jane Wolberton, Galliano. Good afternoon.

[4:04:22] Trustee Luckham: noon and steve wright south pender and um that makes up the not all of the members are here

[4:04:32] Trustee Luckham: today for other commitments but that's the 26 member trust council um of the islands trust and

[4:04:38] Trustee Luckham: thank you all for being here today so let us uh turn this uh over to uh to um to claire frader

[4:04:47] Trustee Luckham: um to provide any words of welcome and introduce marta uh green um over to you claire

[4:04:55] Voice 23: Thank you very much, Chair Lockham. I'm just pleased to welcome our guest today and introduce

[4:05:00] Voice 23: the session and remind Council that you have previously advocated in support of having a

[4:05:06] Voice 23: standby rescue tug based in Sydney and so very pleased to learn about the work being undertaken

[4:05:12] Voice 23: by your partners, San Juan County, and just

[4:05:15] Voice 23: really extend a thank you to our guest today and say I

[4:05:17] Voice 23: think we all look forward to the time where we can get back together in person and renew our

[4:05:21] Voice 23: transboundary relationship. With that, I'll hand it over to Marta. And then as Sherlock, I noted

[4:05:27] Voice 23: earlier in the meeting after the presentation, we've got a bit of space for Councillor Stephens

[4:05:32] Voice 23: to speak to some updates from San Juan County to give Council a bit of an update. So thank you very

[4:05:38] Voice 23: much. And I'll pass it over to Marta.

[4:05:41] Voice 21: Thank you, Claire. And good afternoon,

[4:05:44] Voice 21: Chair and trustees. We're really pleased for this opportunity today. I think the timing is

[4:05:50] Voice 21: is ideal to take the work that we've done over the last year or so and see what the next steps are,

[4:05:58] Voice 21: what are the next communications, and have a good discussion, hopefully time for discussion today

[4:06:04] Voice 21: on some options. My name is Marta Green. I'm the Puget Sound Recovery Coordinator for San Juan

[4:06:11] Voice 21: County and been with the county for six years now. Before that, I spent 30 years in environmental

[4:06:20] Voice 21: management and hazardous and nuclear waste operations. So it's been great to get into this

[4:06:27] Voice 21: this role with the county where we're looking at more conservation oriented environmental

[4:06:34] Voice 21: projects. Let me share my screen here. Perhaps it's not going to be. There

[4:06:49] Voice 14: you go. We've got it.

[4:06:50] Voice 14: Thank you. Yeah,

[4:06:50] Voice 21: we got the summary. There we go. Okay, so let me just change my screen a little

[4:07:05] Voice 21: bit. There we go. So we want to share with you today the results of our vessel drift and response

[4:07:13] Voice 21: analysis for the Southern Strait of Juan de Fuca or the Strait of Juan de Fuca to the Southern

[4:07:20] Voice 21: Strait of Georgia. So this builds upon the work that Clear Sea Center did a few years ago now

[4:07:28] Voice 21: with NUCCA research to do a drift analysis and response analysis on the on the west coast of

[4:07:37] Voice 21: Canada. So the interest here was to extend that similar type of analysis to our inland waters.

[4:07:45] Voice 21: I want to acknowledge tremendous partners in this. With NUCCA Research and Planning Group, Tim Robertson, which many of you may be familiar with, Tim and Brent Higman also worked on the work for Clear Seas, as well as Sierra Fletcher.

[4:08:13] Voice 21: And then the Salish Sea Modeling Center, a tremendous partner in this, with Terang, Kangagar, and Sukyong Yoon.

[4:08:24] Voice 21: These folks did a tremendous amount of work in a very short amount of time.

[4:08:29] Voice 21: About four months was we had output from this modeling effort.

[4:08:34] Voice 21: So it came together just very well.

[4:08:37] Voice 21: Well, also importantly, we had a number of a diverse group of project contributors, including

[4:08:53] Voice 21: nonprofits, government, and non-governmental, as well as tribal interests, and some trans

[4:09:01] Voice 21: boundary representation, Fred Fellman, Ryan Kirk with Ecology, Paul McCollum, Lovell Pratt,

[4:09:08] Voice 21: at Jennifer Steele, Jamie, Kimball Sundberg, who's a subject matter expert we have here locally,

[4:09:17] Voice 21: and John Venture with the Marine Exchange. So they provided early and periodic input as well

[4:09:24] Voice 21: as peer review. So the agenda today, here we'll go through just quickly on the background. I know

[4:09:35] Voice 21: many of you have been involved and are quite familiar with the background on these discussions.

[4:09:40] Voice 21: questions are objectives. And then the first research question, this study was really done

[4:09:46] Voice 21: in two parts. The first one being the drift time of a vessel before it would ground. We'll talk

[4:09:53] Voice 21: about the data sources and limitations generally of the modeling effort and the results of those

[4:10:03] Voice 21: time to grounding maps. And then the second research question then is, okay, what is the

[4:10:08] Voice 21: of response time for an emergency response towing vessel

[4:10:12] Voice 21: and the overall findings of our study.

[4:10:16] Voice 21: And then we should have plenty of time for questions

[4:10:18] Voice 21: and discussion of next steps.

[4:10:23] Voice 21: So there's broad and longstanding transboundary support

[4:10:31] Voice 21: for investment in an emergency response towing vessel.

[4:10:34] Voice 21: I won't, I'll go to the acronym from now on,

[4:10:37] Voice 21: um but an ERTV you know in these waters in the inland waters has been discussed and analyzed

[4:10:46] Voice 21: and promoted for a very long time just a couple of milestones uh Claire Jamie and I attended

[4:10:55] Voice 21: uh a department of ecology spill risk mitigation workshop back in September of 2016

[4:11:01] Voice 21: 2016. And that had, again, a diverse industry, tribal, governmental, non-governmental participation.

[4:11:13] Voice 21: And the objective was to look at a long list of spill prevention mitigation measures and

[4:11:20] Voice 21: prioritize them. And the ERTV for Harold Strait and Boundary Pass was ranked as a high priority,

[4:11:26] Voice 21: In fact, third of all of the mitigation measures that were reviewed.

[4:11:34] Voice 21: And the strategy going forward was to conduct a cost-benefit business model to see if we could justify the cost of maintaining another ERTV.

[4:11:47] Voice 21: We secured funds for that in San Juan County, working with partners and economists, completed that work in January of 2019.

[4:12:00] Voice 21: And what we looked at were just impacts to San Juan County, and specifically on tourism, fishing industry, property values, ecosystem services, recreational use values.

[4:12:16] Voice 21: But we only we limited that to the impacts to our county.

[4:12:21] Voice 21: But we did base it on a spill trajectory that you see here that was produced for the Trans Mountain pipeline.

[4:12:32] Voice 21: As you can see, the shorelines and impacts to the county represent only a small,

[4:12:39] Voice 21: very small percentage of the overall impacts from what was presented as not a worst case spill but

[4:12:48] Voice 21: a plausible worst case spill of four million gallons of bitumen so we believe that we

[4:12:57] Voice 21: demonstrated the cost benefit in that in that study um and following that or i guess concurrent

[4:13:04] Voice 21: Incurrent with that, the Islands Trust in San Juan County jointly requested Transport Canada to position an ERTB in Sydney.

[4:13:14] Voice 21: And there was, to my knowledge, and Claire, you can correct me, but limited response to that formal request.

[4:13:26] Okay.

[4:13:28] Okay.

[4:13:28] Voice 21: Okay.

[4:13:30] Voice 21: Also of interest is some legislation

[4:13:33] Voice 21: that was introduced here in 2018,

[4:13:35] Voice 21: a Senate bill where it would have required owners

[4:13:40] Voice 21: and operators of covered vessels transiting to

[4:13:43] Voice 21: or from a Washington port to establish,

[4:13:47] Voice 21: or to a Washington port, I should clarify,

[4:13:50] Voice 21: through Boundary Pass, Rosario Strait,

[4:13:56] Voice 21: or Harrow Strait to fund an ERTV.

[4:14:00] Voice 21: That bill did not pass.

[4:14:02] Voice 21: A similar bill was introduced in 2019 by Representative Likanoff,

[4:14:07] Voice 21: and it underwent substantial modification and was adopted with the requirement

[4:14:17] Voice 21: that the Department of Ecology develop a model and quantitatively assess whether an ERTV

[4:14:22] Voice 21: serving Harrow Strait boundary pass or Rosario Strait and connected waterways will reduce an

[4:14:30] Voice 21: oil spill and they are required to complete the model development and that analysis by September

[4:14:39] Voice 21: 2023. Also the ORCA task force recommendations included positioning an ERTV here but coming out

[4:14:51] Voice 21: of all of that questions still remained on whether or not an ERTD could be effective in responding to

[4:14:57] Voice 21: incidents in these narrow waterways. We were not satisfied with waiting four years for them

[4:15:07] Voice 21: to address this question again and therefore proceeded to secure funding to do an analysis

[4:15:19] Voice 21: similar to the response analysis done by Clear Seas

[4:15:24] Voice 21: and conduct that here by San Juan County.

[4:15:28] Voice 21: The objectives would be to inform discussions

[4:15:31] Voice 21: and decisions on vessel traffic safety

[4:15:34] Voice 21: and oil spill risk mitigation measures.

[4:15:39] Voice 21: Importantly to apply the methods and the model developed

[4:15:41] Voice 21: by NUCCA research and planning

[4:15:44] Voice 21: that they applied to Canada's West Coast,

[4:15:49] Voice 21: which clearly supported the funding of the two ERTVs here at the Atlantic Eagle shown to be positioned on the West Coast.

[4:16:01] Voice 21: We wanted to extend that work to inland waters.

[4:16:05] Voice 21: And then more specifically to analyze the time available to rescue a disabled vessel adrift in inland waters,

[4:16:13] Voice 21: extending from the Strait of Juan de Fuca to Burrard Inlet before it grounds.

[4:16:18] Voice 21: The time it would take for an ERTV to rescue ships adrift, and specifically on the north and west sides of San Juan County.

[4:16:32] Voice 21: So, going to our first research question, for any given location, how much time would be available for an ERTV to arrive at a disabled ship before it may drift aground when considering wind and currents?

[4:16:48] Voice 21: And that's an important point that the modeling off the West Coast only considered winds as the predominant factor, whereas there was an additional element of this modeling to identify the impact of currents that's important in these waterways.

[4:17:12] Voice 21: So here's our study area. The drift analysis extended throughout this study area, and then the response analysis was done on these four focus areas here.

[4:17:38] Voice 21: The other component of our study area was selecting potential ERTV position starting points, and you can see these here.

[4:17:51] Voice 21: To supplement Neah Bay, we considered an ERTV that could be positioned in Victoria, Sydney, Delta Port, Anacortes, Roche Harbor, and Port Angeles.

[4:18:04] Voice 21: I mentioned the critical role that Salish Sea Modeling Center had.

[4:18:20] Voice 21: The Salish Sea Modeling Center is part of the University of Washington.

[4:18:25] Voice 21: It's also supported by the PNNL, the National Laboratory, and we used their data from years 2014 to 2017.

[4:18:37] Voice 21: We also used basically an off-the-shelf ship drift algorithm and modeled just one type of vessel.

[4:18:49] Voice 21: To give you an idea of the scale of the modeling, the geographic study area was divided into 3.7 million 100-meter by 100-meter grid cells.

[4:19:05] Voice 21: And in running the data, 6500 model runs, yielding 15.6 billion estimates of ship drift to grounding times.

[4:19:18] Voice 21: So that was the starting point for this work.

[4:19:23] Voice 21: So just quickly on the Salish Sea model, it does extend beyond our study area along the west coast, well, along the coast from Canada to Oregon.

[4:19:42] Voice 21: It was originally developed for water quality management, hypoxia and nutrients.

[4:19:48] Voice 21: They did add some species, zooplankton, submerged aquatic vegetation, as well as some additional water quality parameters a number of years back.

[4:20:02] Voice 21: And then in 2015 to 2017, they incorporated the NOAA buoy wind and currents.

[4:20:10] Voice 21: And at that time, we're actually interested in finding an opportunity to use this model for safety analysis.

[4:20:22] Voice 21: So I've got here a clip that just kind of,

[4:20:29] Voice 21: it kind of goes to some of the output

[4:20:31] Voice 21: of what this model did for us.

[4:20:35] Voice 21: On the right is the drift trajectory at a point in time.

[4:20:43] Voice 21: And on the left, it's going to show the trajectory

[4:20:49] Voice 21: of a hypothetical oil spill.

[4:20:51] Voice 21: So one thing that we found kind of interesting is how dynamic the currents are around in the Victoria area, Southern Harrow Strait, that it's not just a straight flow in, flow out.

[4:21:21] Voice 21: And I might just, I should have, are you still with me?

[4:21:39] Voice 15: menu in

[4:21:40] Voice 21: front

[4:21:42] Voice 15: of us so that video must run it easily to

[4:21:56] Trustee Fast: us it looks like the video has already

[4:21:58] Trustee Fast: finished is that right

[4:22:00] Voice 21: it did and it went to barry i'm gonna i'm gonna stop and come back in

[4:22:11] Voice 21: i'm gonna stop the share oh

[4:22:16] Voice 17: dear oh

[4:22:22] Voice 21: i'm so sorry no worries we

[4:22:30] Voice 23: see your presentation again now at

[4:22:32] Voice 23: the first slide.

[4:22:33] Voice 21: Okay, great. Get the idea. I don't know if I want to try to run that again

[4:22:50] Voice 21: but it's, here we go.

[4:22:55] Trustee Luckham: You could hit the recycle button on the bottom left and it might replay

[4:23:00] Trustee Luckham: that video easily.

[4:23:07] Voice 21: That's the drift model anyway. Yeah. It's pretty interesting. Very. Over a short

[4:23:14] Voice 21: period of time. What was that, like

[4:23:19] Trustee Luckham: 10 minutes? Well, another model would probably be more like

[4:23:25] Trustee Luckham: 18 hours, I would assume, by the number of times it's cycled.

[4:23:30] Trustee Luckham: Marta, would that be correct, that that drift analysis you showed with the oil

[4:23:35] Trustee Luckham: probably looked like three different tidal exchanges there,

[4:23:38] Trustee Luckham: so that would be about an 18-hour cycle?

[4:23:43] Voice 21: I don't have that number offhand, but yeah, sounds right.

[4:23:49] Voice 21: Right. Okay. So the, the ship drift trajectory was based on a midsize container ship that's loaded.

[4:24:05] Voice 21: It, it incorporates or applies 100% of the current speed and direction and a portion of the wind

[4:24:15] Voice 21: speed. And that makes sense that the, that the ship would be at the mercy really of the currents

[4:24:23] Voice 21: and only partially at the mercy of the winds.

[4:24:26] Voice 21: It could change its orientation, et cetera.

[4:24:31] Voice 21: So this kind of, this vector kind of shows

[4:24:34] Voice 21: that there would be an influence from an ocean vector

[4:24:37] Voice 21: and then perhaps some variable influence from the wind.

[4:24:42] Voice 21: And then together, we've got this range

[4:24:45] Voice 21: of potential direction.

[4:24:49] Voice 21: The magnitude should be a little more similar,

[4:24:52] Voice 21: But that gives you an idea of how the vectors merge in the model.

[4:25:03] Voice 21: So then we want to map the amount of time a ship has to drift before grounding from any point in the study area.

[4:25:17] Voice 21: And before I show you that, it's important to recognize some of the limitations of any modeling.

[4:25:23] Voice 21: modeling. It's a limited attempt to approximate complex real-world systems, useful but never

[4:25:32] Voice 21: an exact representation of an actual event. In our case, our model did not account for

[4:25:41] Voice 21: a disabled vessel's momentum at the point in time when it loses power, and it did not

[4:25:51] Voice 21: So modeling from the point in time when the vessel becomes controlled solely by currents and wind.

[4:25:58] Voice 21: The model does also not account for actions of the crew.

[4:26:03] Voice 21: So interestingly enough, the Department of Ecology model is looking at these two aspects of the drift time,

[4:26:13] Voice 21: which generally would increase the drift time if you've got some momentum and you're able to

[4:26:20] Voice 21: to use steering to to change course or to maintain course that or perhaps an arrest but

[4:26:32] Voice 21: in general that would increase the drift time so our model even though not considering that

[4:26:40] Voice 21: that is perhaps more conservative.

[4:26:44] Voice 21: And there's some uncertainty on, you know,

[4:26:46] Voice 21: the drift characteristics for other types of ships.

[4:26:52] Voice 21: Although some comparison was made to real time data

[4:26:55] Voice 21: of other ships and shown to be comparable.

[4:27:01] Voice 21: So here's the first result.

[4:27:03] Voice 21: This is the median case of drift times.

[4:27:08] Voice 21: So of the random data pull,

[4:27:12] Voice 21: the median case we've modeled up to 15 hours so we have greater than 15 hours coming into

[4:27:22] Voice 21: Strait of Wanifuka a little less but approaching then as we go into Harrow 10 hours of drift time

[4:27:30] Voice 21: reducing to five hours and about three hours at turn point and then increasing again to eight

[4:27:42] Voice 21: hours of drift time in the southern southern Strait of Georgia. We also looked at the 95th percentile

[4:27:54] Voice 21: which is a bad case, stronger winds and or currents which would reduce the drift time

[4:28:02] Voice 21: to less than five hours. So four hours in the Strait of Juan de Fuca, a little more in these

[4:28:10] Voice 21: swirly places out here reducing to two hours one hour uh two one to two hours in harrow straight

[4:28:22] Voice 21: and then approximately a half hour of drift time if it were to stop and become disabled at turn

[4:28:32] Voice 21: point through boundary and then back to two hours so other stop at this point see if there's any

[4:28:48] Voice 21: any questions on the drift model?

[4:28:51] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Marta.

[4:28:53] Trustee Luckham: That's enlightening to say the least.

[4:28:57] Trustee Luckham: Trustees, do you have any questions on the drift model thing

[4:29:00] Trustee Luckham: that we've just seen,

[4:29:02] Trustee Luckham: particularly this quite stimulating chart here,

[4:29:04] Trustee Luckham: the bad case?

[4:29:07] Trustee Luckham: I'm not seeing any questions.

[4:29:14] Voice 21: Okay.

[4:29:15] Voice 15: Okay, back to you.

[4:29:21] Voice 21: So the second research question is that

[4:29:24] Voice 21: considering four focus areas on the west side of San Juan County, what is the probability that a

[4:29:31] Voice 21: tug could arrive before a disabled ship on a typical route, which is basically the middle

[4:29:37] Voice 21: of the shipping channel, might drift aground? So four focus areas, seven points of origin.

[4:29:47] Voice 21: This is just zeroing in on how those focus areas overlap the drift times for another perspective.

[4:30:00] Voice 21: on that. And again, the points of origin analyzed, Neah Bay being our base case, Port Angeles,

[4:30:11] Voice 21: Anacortes, Roche Harbor, Victoria, Sydney, and Delta Port. So the way this was put together is

[4:30:24] Voice 21: graphs of showing how the percentage of ships still drifting versus the time, and compared to

[4:30:36] Voice 21: of the amount of time it takes an ERTV to arrive on scene from a given location. That was kind of

[4:30:41] Voice 21: our solution, I guess, or what means of analysis of this. That'll become a little more clear.

[4:30:52] Voice 21: So the other thing we did on response time was to basically band it with a fast,

[4:31:03] Voice 21: fast mid time and slow time so recognizing that the time from each point of origin

[4:31:12] Voice 21: to the relatively large area within a focus area um is going to depend on the location in the focus

[4:31:22] Voice 21: area and the speed so we've got um a slow speed the slow response is seven knot

[4:31:35] Voice 21: tug speed to the furthest point to the furthest grounding point in the focus area and the fast

[4:31:45] Voice 21: time being 10 knots to the the closest shore drifting line and and just not just looking at

[4:31:56] Voice 21: these response times compared to the drift times you can see that you know there's some

[4:32:06] Voice 21: There's some response times well within the time available for grounding.

[4:32:18] Voice 21: As you get farther away, you know, Neah Bay has limited ability to respond to any of the four focus areas.

[4:32:29] Voice 21: areas. But a better way to look at that. Now,

[4:32:35] Voice 17: prescription I left it in the driveway here

[4:32:38] Voice 17: plastic bag. That's prescription this I think you owe me for two. Okay. Yeah. Is anybody

[4:32:45] Voice 17: home? It's always sir. Okay. Well, I'm going to put in the fridge. Hi, Janine Dodds. Yeah,

[4:32:54] Trustee Fast: Yeah.

[4:32:55] Voice 32: She's muted.

[4:32:56] Voice 32: Sorry about that.

[4:33:04] Voice 21: These graphs are really the output

[4:33:08] Voice 21: of combining the drift and response analysis.

[4:33:13] Voice 21: So let's just, starting at turn point,

[4:33:20] Voice 21: again, ERTV originating from Sydney or Worch Harbor,

[4:33:24] Voice 21: if you just look at the midpoint of the response time,

[4:33:30] Voice 21: It intersects with responding to a vessel about 85% of the time successful in getting to the vessel before it grounds, followed by a vessel in Victoria, and the others.

[4:33:57] Voice 32: Boundary

[4:33:57] Voice 21: pass, again, the best opportunities would be Roche Harbor and Sydney, but it's a little lower.

[4:34:08] Voice 21: at

[4:34:09] Voice 32: 80 percent and then northern harrow pretty

[4:34:21] Voice 21: good response time from roach followed by sydney

[4:34:24] Voice 21: or success i guess you would say it's really a rate of save of 95 percent here on average

[4:34:32] Voice 21: and southern harrow we've got more time so more of the points of origin could be successful

[4:34:43] Voice 21: successful in an incident in Southern Harrow, which is certainly

[4:34:48] Voice 32: makes sense. These take a

[4:34:57] Voice 32: little while to absorb these, but

[4:34:59] Voice 21: we can come back if anybody wants to look further. So what those

[4:35:05] Voice 21: charts tell us, or first of all, what the drift model tells us is that for the Strait of Juan de

[4:35:13] Voice 21: Fuca, in the median case, the time to grounding is generally greater than 10 hours. In the bad case,

[4:35:20] Voice 21: case, it's at least three hours. For the Southern Strait of Georgia, based on the model drift,

[4:35:33] Voice 21: the median case to grounding is generally greater than five hours, and at least, in a bad case,

[4:35:41] Voice 21: at least two hours.

[4:35:48] Voice 32: And then the

[4:35:50] Voice 21: drift and response findings for boundary pass,

[4:35:55] Voice 21: the median case the time to grounding is generally greater than three hours and in a bad case less

[4:36:03] Voice 21: than one hour and when considering the the mid time for an ERTV to arrive on a vessel that drifts

[4:36:14] Voice 21: basically starting from the shipping lane an ERTV stationed at Roach Harbor would arrive in time to

[4:36:22] Voice 21: to save 80% of the disabled vessels,

[4:36:27] Voice 21: followed by a 75% save rate from Sydney,

[4:36:33] Voice 21: 70 from Delta port, 55% save rate

[4:36:39] Voice 21: as you move further away.

[4:36:42] Voice 21: And currently Neah Bay response would only arrive in time

[4:36:51] Voice 21: to assist less than 30%.

[4:36:54] Voice 21: For Turnpoint, the time to grounding is generally less than three hours in the median case,

[4:37:04] Voice 21: less than one hour in a bad case.

[4:37:08] Voice 21: An ERTV at Roach Harbor or Sydney would still arrive to save over 80% of disabled vessels,

[4:37:18] Voice 21: and that decreases a little more abruptly for ERTVs that would be positioned Victoria,

[4:37:27] Voice 32: Delta, Florida, further away.

[4:37:29] Voice 32: For North Harrow

[4:37:36] Voice 21: Strait, time to grounding in the median case is at least three hours.

[4:37:43] Voice 21: Bad case is less than one hour. ERTV at Roche Harbor or Sydney would arrive in time to save

[4:37:52] Voice 21: over 90% of disabled vessels. And other rates of save, 75 at Victoria and

[4:38:02] Voice 32: decreasing from there.

[4:38:03] Voice 32: And

[4:38:09] Voice 21: finally, South Harrow Strait, time to grounding is generally, in the median case, at least five hours.

[4:38:17] Voice 21: In a bad case, it's still greater than one hour.

[4:38:22] Voice 21: And an ERTV stationed at Victoria, Roche, or Sydney would arrive in time to save over 90% of disabled vessels in South Harrow Strait.

[4:38:35] Voice 21: 85% you would expect Port Angeles would have a high rate of save as well as Anacortes.

[4:38:41] Voice 21: and 75% the base case right now for an event in Neah Bay is 65%

[4:38:50] Voice 32: save rate. So in summary

[4:39:01] Voice 21: we know the constricted waters around Harrow Strait and Boundary Pass represent a significant

[4:39:06] Voice 21: challenge to the existing capability to execute a successful emergency tow. In a worst case a

[4:39:17] Voice 21: A disabled ship traveling on the typical route would have under an hour before grounding after losing momentum, generally at turn point.

[4:39:29] Voice 21: An ERTV located at Sydney or Roche Harbor would have the best chance of a successful rescue in these areas, arriving in time to rescue over 80% of the cases studied.

[4:39:41] Voice 21: So, you know, based on this work, we feel that that is effective, particularly that that does demonstrate that this ERTV could be effective, and particularly when conditions are not severe.

[4:40:06] Voice 21: severe and I think it's important to recognize I mean there's there's more that can be done here

[4:40:14] Voice 21: certainly we could do more modeling based on different tidal conditions different wind regimes

[4:40:25] Voice 21: different vessel types and we're also talking about extending this study into Rosario Strait

[4:40:33] Voice 21: but from what we've we've done to this point you know i i think it's important to recognize this

[4:40:43] Voice 21: is a robust analysis it's generally conservative and it's peer-reviewed and based on the best

[4:40:52] Voice 21: available data so i think that's an important point to make the work that ecology is doing is

[4:41:03] Voice 21: much more extensive in terms of the types of analyses they might do in addition to an ERTV

[4:41:10] Voice 21: response. And I'm participating in those discussions as well. This was very focused

[4:41:18] Voice 21: on just answering those, the questions that we had about these waters. And in addition,

[4:41:25] Voice 21: doing the larger study on drift times throughout our waters here. So I'll come back to that,

[4:41:37] Voice 21: But just noting if you want to follow up with me or our other leads, Tim and Terang, do feel free to reach out.

[4:41:49] Voice 21: They are experts in the scope of work that they did here.

[4:41:56] Voice 21: And I just learned a lot along the way.

[4:41:59] Voice 21: Okay. So I would open it up to questions and then also talk, hopefully talk about what might be next in terms of how we collectively want to use the findings of this study.

[4:42:20] Voice 21: Okay.

[4:42:22] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Marta. I do have a few questions here that have arisen now. Really appreciate the

[4:42:29] Trustee Luckham: quality and quantity of information that you've presented to us. And I want to just be sure that

[4:42:36] Trustee Luckham: that 80% save of an ER, TB in Roche Harbor or Sydney is a what-if scenario, because we don't

[4:42:45] Trustee Luckham: have that capacity or capability at this time. So, questions? Trustee Critchley from Denman Isles.

[4:42:53] Trustee Critchley: Yes, thank you very much. Thank you for the presentation. It was very, very interesting

[4:42:58] Trustee Critchley: indeed. You mentioned in your study about arrival times, and I'm wondering about what happens after

[4:43:05] Trustee Critchley: arrival. How long does it actually take? And I imagine this depends a lot on sea conditions,

[4:43:13] Trustee Critchley: But generally, how long does it take to get attached to the stricken vessel and get pulling on it so that you begin the time of rescue?

[4:43:25] Trustee Critchley: And also further to that, is there a standard method of attachment to various freighters?

[4:43:37] Trustee Critchley: Do they have some standardized procedure for being towed so that the rescuing vessel kind of knows exactly what to do when they arrive on scene and begins the rescue? Thank you.

[4:43:53] Voice 21: right um we incorporated in the drift in the response time we incorporated 30 minutes

[4:44:01] Voice 21: uh to the to the to the travel time we added 30 minutes for mobilization and

[4:44:09] Voice 21: uh tying on and that reflects a 20 minute contractually required mobilization

[4:44:17] Voice 21: time currently for the Neah Bay tug is under contract,

[4:44:22] Voice 21: has to be underway within 20 minutes.

[4:44:26] Voice 21: And then the 10 minutes to tie on is,

[4:44:28] Voice 21: would be dependent on the sea conditions

[4:44:33] Voice 21: and the type of connection that they would need.

[4:44:38] Voice 21: There was a very interesting presentation here

[4:44:40] Voice 21: at Ecology's 2019 workshop on oil spill prevention

[4:44:48] Voice 21: by clear c center about the different options on how to how to maybe rig depending on conditions

[4:44:58] Voice 21: so that's not an area that i have expertise in but there's information out there and there are

[4:45:05] Voice 21: different ways different different uh means to do that depending on what the situation is

[4:45:11] Voice 21: but we 10 minutes again is uh ambitious but i think realistic for folks that they're that's

[4:45:22] Voice 21: what they're trying to do okay

[4:45:25] Trustee Luckham: thank you um i would just know from what i know that with the

[4:45:31] Trustee Luckham: deployment of the two uh tow tugs on the north coast that we have now um and that vessel that

[4:45:37] Trustee Luckham: was adrift i forget the name of it two or three years ago certainly there was a lot of focus on

[4:45:42] Trustee Luckham: on how it is that the actual rescue and the mechanisms

[4:45:46] Trustee Luckham: and the tow lines and stuff would be deployed.

[4:45:49] Trustee Luckham: And so there's no doubt the best standards would be applied.

[4:45:52] Trustee Luckham: So Trustee Longer, over to you.

[4:45:55] Voice 37: Yeah, thank you very much.

[4:45:57] Voice 37: That very interesting presentation.

[4:45:59] Voice 37: A lot of factors to take into account in determining this.

[4:46:03] Voice 37: One question I got is, are these timeline,

[4:46:06] Voice 37: the times that are set,

[4:46:08] Voice 37: is that based on a fully loaded vessel

[4:46:10] Voice 37: vessel or and does it what impact is it if it's empty in terms of drift time I'm just curious

[4:46:17] Voice 37: I'm not nautical so I'm just curious about that um

[4:46:21] Voice 21: it is based on a fully loaded mid-sized

[4:46:24] Voice 21: container ship and um developing these algorithms algorithms for additional vessel sizes and

[4:46:35] Voice 21: And laden, unladen is a kind of a discipline in and of itself, I would say.

[4:46:42] Voice 21: So we used a commercial, you know, an available drift algorithm for a specific vessel.

[4:46:50] Voice 21: And that's, you know, further work that could be done.

[4:46:55] Voice 21: As I indicated, NUCCA did compare that speed of drift with actual measurements of different vessels, and they plotted, you know, not inconsistently.

[4:47:13] Voice 21: yeah

[4:47:16] Voice 37: yeah i'm just curious about the difference in and the drift with the loaded unloaded vessel

[4:47:21] Voice 37: did i i my guess is that a loaded vessel might be a slower drift or maybe not as i say it's not my

[4:47:29] Voice 37: area of expertise for sure so

[4:47:32] Voice 21: i my understanding is uh if it's a um if it's a bolt carrier

[4:47:42] Voice 21: or a vehicle carrier where the you know there's a lot of weight in the hole then um it wouldn't have

[4:47:54] Voice 21: as the wind wouldn't have as much effect yeah but

[4:47:57] Voice 21: if it's a if it's a container carrier where

[4:48:00] Voice 21: they're stacked up the wind is going to have more effect yeah

[4:48:03] Voice 37: but the weight the weight of cargo is

[4:48:07] Voice 37: is not a major factor then?

[4:48:16] Voice 37: Like current, yeah, I'm thinking of the current as well

[4:48:18] Voice 37: and the wind, just curious about that.

[4:48:22] Voice 21: It would be, it is factored into the algorithm

[4:48:27] Voice 21: that we

[4:48:28] Voice 21: used on this midsize loaded,

[4:48:31] Voice 21: fully loaded container ship.

[4:48:34] Trustee Allen: Okay, Trustee Allen, Hornby Allen.

[4:48:37] Trustee Allen: Hi, thank you.

[4:48:38] Trustee Allen: I might've missed it in your presentation,

[4:48:40] Trustee Allen: but um where are the are there er tvs located anywhere at this point in and where are they

[4:48:48] Trustee Allen: located there's

[4:48:50] Voice 21: no one in washington

[4:48:51] Trustee Allen: there's

[4:48:52] Voice 21: the nia bay there's a there's a there's a rescue tug

[4:48:56] Voice 21: positioned at nia bay uh funded by covered vessels calling on washington ports

[4:49:05] Voice 21: And then Canada funds the two ERTVs on the West Coast.

[4:49:14] Voice 21: It's interesting to note that either or both of those ERTVs on the West Coast do spend time in inland waters,

[4:49:29] Voice 21: specifically Victoria or Sydney is my understanding

[4:49:33] Voice 21: for provisioning maintenance, whatever the case may be.

[4:49:38] Voice 21: So we do see both the Atlantic Raven

[4:49:42] Voice 21: and the Atlantic Eagle in Harrow Strait.

[4:49:51] Voice 32: Okay, thank you.

[4:49:52] Voice 32: Trustee Rogers.

[4:49:55] Trustee Rogers: Thank you Martyr for your presentation.

[4:49:57] Trustee Rogers: I've attended a couple of sessions

[4:50:01] Trustee Rogers: at the oil spill task force group

[4:50:04] Trustee Rogers: group and also somewhere else I'm trying to remember and the question about an ERTV in

[4:50:11] Trustee Rogers: Sydney or somewhere in the vicinity arises occasionally and the answer always is

[4:50:17] Trustee Rogers: there is a density of large commercial vessels that are available for rescue and for response

[4:50:26] Trustee Rogers: because of the location and the closeness of Delta Port and Sydney and other places that

[4:50:33] Trustee Rogers: that they felt that the number of commercially available tugs was dense enough that they would

[4:50:42] Trustee Rogers: be able to respond quickly. Can you comment on that? Because, I mean, I've never been particularly

[4:50:48] Trustee Rogers: convinced by that argument, but I wanted to have you comment because that's the answer that we get

[4:50:54] Trustee Rogers: from, I think, the federal government mostly, but also the industry, is that there's a density of

[4:51:01] Trustee Rogers: of ships of appropriate size to respond in that area.

[4:51:07] Trustee Rogers: And therefore they don't need

[4:51:08] Trustee Rogers: a specifically designated ERTV.

[4:51:11] Voice 21: Right.

[4:51:12] Voice 21: So that comes up frequently also

[4:51:15] Voice 21: and was not part of the scope of this study.

[4:51:20] Voice 21: NUCCA has previously done what's referred to

[4:51:24] Voice 21: as the tugs of opportunity.

[4:51:26] Voice 21: NUCCA did a study for Clear Sea Center on that.

[4:51:29] Voice 21: um and the in in general my understanding is that that study determined that a tug of opportunity

[4:51:40] Voice 21: may be available in these waters 30 percent of the time there's also been some recent discussion

[4:51:50] Voice 21: about whether a tug that is actually escorting a tanker um could drop that tether and respond

[4:52:00] Voice 21: to another vessel.

[4:52:03] Voice 21: And I think our initial, I'll just speak for myself.

[4:52:07] Voice 21: My initial response on that is,

[4:52:09] Voice 21: I don't think reducing the safety for the oil tanker

[4:52:15] Voice 21: is an appropriate mitigation measure

[4:52:17] Voice 21: for spill prevention of another vessel.

[4:52:23] Voice 15: Thank you.

[4:52:24] Voice 21: Yeah, that's definitely part of the conversation.

[4:52:30] Voice 21: We've got to recognize that as you see,

[4:52:33] Voice 21: see in some cases we have very little time and a dedicated tug has a much better chance

[4:52:41] Voice 21: of responding in time than one that would not be necessarily having the power, the personnel,

[4:52:53] Voice 21: trained personnel and equipment that a dedicated rescue tug would have.

[4:53:02] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[4:53:02] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[4:53:03] Trustee Luckham: I don't see any more hands raised for questions,

[4:53:06] Trustee Luckham: and I want to acknowledge that Jamie might have some,

[4:53:10] Trustee Luckham: Jamie Stevens, counselor from San Juan County,

[4:53:12] Trustee Luckham: might have some remarks that he might like to make

[4:53:16] Trustee Luckham: with respect to the Inland Waters Vessel Drift analysis

[4:53:20] Trustee Luckham: that you provided us,

[4:53:22] Trustee Luckham: because he is named on that in this area as well,

[4:53:25] Trustee Luckham: but he also wants to make a presentation

[4:53:27] Trustee Luckham: or say a few remarks about San Juan County Council.

[4:53:30] Trustee Luckham: So, Jamie, did you have any remarks or thoughts you'd like to share with us?

[4:53:36] Trustee Luckham: I know and appreciate that you and the San Juan County have been very supportive of the Islands Trust's call and collaborating together to actually have a tug station in Sydney.

[4:53:46] Trustee Luckham: But at this point, we certainly haven't had a positive response from the federal government on that. Over to you.

[4:53:53] Voice 1: so um you know thank you very much and um every time i unmuted myself marta uh got the answer

[4:54:00] Voice 1: that i was going to give so um but i do think on what probably one of the as we keep narrowing down

[4:54:09] Voice 1: um you know their rejections or um just like trustee rogers question of um you know is this

[4:54:17] Voice 1: this true or not well it might be true but what are you sacrificing and if it's only 30 percent

[4:54:23] Voice 1: successful is that really what we want given the nature of our islands combined islands and

[4:54:32] Voice 1: the shoreline and what damage it would do that's the only thing I have the other thing is we really

[4:54:39] Voice 1: need to the thing that hasn't come up and I think is underneath a lot of the hesitancy is

[4:54:47] Voice 1: who's going to pay for this. It's difficult to get the Washington shippers to pay a large portion

[4:54:55] Voice 1: of it. Because when we look at the vessel traffic patterns, I think it's at least 70% or more going

[4:55:04] Voice 1: up through Harrow Strait is bound to or from Canada. So then the issue becomes how do we,

[4:55:13] Voice 1: you know who do we get and how do we get them involved to come up with an equitable

[4:55:20] Voice 1: payment scheme for a dedicated emergency rescue tug which goes beyond this study but that I think

[4:55:31] Voice 1: is kind of the one of the biggest questions going forward. Thank you Jamie.

[4:55:39] Voice 21: If I might add to that

[4:55:41] Voice 21: that a consideration of something that may be viable

[4:55:48] Voice 21: in the near term is to evaluate the positioning

[4:55:54] Voice 21: of the existing tugs and particularly perhaps

[4:56:01] Voice 21: under certain weather conditions even,

[4:56:05] Voice 21: but a new funding scheme obviously would be some time out

[4:56:14] Voice 21: but what what can we do with the resources that we have now for improved safety right

[4:56:24] Trustee Luckham: okay so so thank you so martin did you want to go into uh we have a limited amount of time

[4:56:31] Trustee Luckham: remaining here and i don't want to give jamie the opportunity to speak to us about san martin

[4:56:35] Trustee Luckham: county council do you have uh some remarks about where to go from here well

[4:56:40] Voice 21: i i think mostly what

[4:56:43] Voice 21: I what I just shared and what Jamie shared is that there is I think I think we need to continue to

[4:56:51] Voice 21: promote this and and broadcast this information along with options and we need we need different

[4:57:01] Voice 21: options but but one I think that seems clear to me is uh evaluating the positioning of the assets

[4:57:14] Voice 21: that we have and confirming that the funding for the three tugs is going to be in place in the

[4:57:22] Voice 21: future right

[4:57:26] Trustee Luckham: so i said to claire as that you were wrapping up your presentation here is how do we

[4:57:31] Trustee Luckham: get this information to ottawa we now actually have a newly elected government in canada

[4:57:36] Trustee Luckham: and um certainly the information you provided is compelling and um those are the ears that need to

[4:57:43] Trustee Luckham: hears this in my mind could

[4:57:46] Voice 21: i just share one more thing i'm sorry before um this this work

[4:57:52] Voice 21: we've got some visibility on this work perhaps uh because it's part of the body of work that the

[4:57:59] Voice 21: civic states dc oil spill task force uh evaluated as a basis for uh making me a recipient of the

[4:58:11] Voice 21: 2021 legacy award so they recognize the importance of this work and maybe that's you know a trans

[4:58:18] Voice 21: boundary ally or forum that we have to uh to take forward and certainly locally we're we're that's

[4:58:27] Voice 21: our next step is some press release around around that specifically to showcase the results of the

[4:58:37] Voice 21: the work okay

[4:58:40] Trustee Luckham: well thank you um i don't see any further questions today um so really want to thank

[4:58:47] Trustee Luckham: you and i know that you'll keep working on this and we'll certainly in the best we can keep

[4:58:51] Trustee Luckham: advocating um and working with san juan county so um at this time i would like to go to uh jamie

[4:59:00] Trustee Luckham: stevens to provide us an update on the san juan county whom i'm not sure this juncture they've

[4:59:08] Trustee Luckham: if all the trustees recently elected,

[4:59:11] Trustee Luckham: although obviously we're well into our term now,

[4:59:14] Trustee Luckham: are aware of the transport boundary relationship

[4:59:17] Trustee Luckham: that we have with the San Juan County,

[4:59:20] Trustee Luckham: which has been in place for many years

[4:59:21] Trustee Luckham: and an agreement, a multinational agreement of cooperation.

[4:59:25] Trustee Luckham: So I'm really glad to see you here today, Jamie,

[4:59:28] Trustee Luckham: and I'll just turn it over to you.

[4:59:30] Voice 1: Thank you, Chair Luckman.

[4:59:32] Voice 1: Thanks for the invite today.

[4:59:33] Voice 1: I see a lot of familiar faces on the screen,

[4:59:37] Voice 1: as well as a lot of new faces, and I'm really happy that we're at least able to get together

[4:59:45] Voice 1: this way. It's been a while, and much has happened other than COVID. Much has happened since we

[4:59:51] Voice 1: last saw you. First, there are two new council members. I'm currently serving as chair. We have

[5:00:00] Voice 1: new council members, Council Member Christine Minney and Council Member Cindy Wolfe. It has

[5:00:06] Voice 1: brought a whole new dynamic, particularly trying to come out of our COVID situation,

[5:00:12] Voice 1: and we're working well together. Other things that have happened, just to update you, and

[5:00:18] Voice 1: hopefully there'll be times if there's any questions, you know, a large part of what we do

[5:00:24] Voice 1: is um is planning and land use and permitting for building which is similar to uh a lot of what you

[5:00:32] Voice 1: do so uh we've updated our shoreline master plan and this set of codes governs how development and

[5:00:40] Voice 1: redevelopment happens within 200 feet of the shoreline and uh by state law the guiding principle

[5:00:47] Voice 1: is whatever you do, you have to show no net loss of ecological function or a way of mitigating for

[5:00:57] Voice 1: that. Our council has also passed a climate change resolution. It provides guidance for all of our

[5:01:05] Voice 1: departments to take climate change into consideration when planning projects. And this

[5:01:10] Voice 1: goes from the health department in where freshwater pipes go or approving wells,

[5:01:18] Voice 1: approving septic systems, our public works department for roads and culverts and stormwater

[5:01:27] Voice 1: drainage, as well as trying to make sure somebody's house doesn't wash away after they

[5:01:33] Voice 1: after they build it it part of our climate change resolution recognizes that several

[5:01:41] Voice 1: severe storms are more common and the water with them and the water that it produces is too much

[5:01:48] Voice 1: at one time to allow for really robust groundwater recharge and it also sets a goal particularly for

[5:01:57] Voice 1: our public works in roads and drainage to do a managed retreat from the shoreline as we redevelop

[5:02:07] Voice 1: or fix roads we have several places that are right along the shoreline that we are already flooded

[5:02:15] Voice 1: much of the winter in in washington state most of the counties do their planning under what's called

[5:02:26] Voice 1: the growth management act and we are one of those counties and it requires that we have a

[5:02:31] Voice 1: comprehensive plan and currently they're updated about every 20 years and we're almost done with

[5:02:40] Voice 1: updating ours and what the comp plan encompasses are the goals and strategies on how and where we

[5:02:48] Voice 1: will grow and also includes chapters on water sewage transportation both vehicle and pedestrian

[5:03:01] Voice 1: and also the base of it is we start out with a population estimate

[5:03:08] Voice 1: on what on where we think given the highs and lows from the department of commerce

[5:03:12] Voice 1: what we need to plan for but that's what we've been doing since we haven't seen you

[5:03:23] Voice 1: but our current issues i wanted to bring up are probably the same issues that we as a san juan

[5:03:30] Voice 1: county and the islands trust have talked about over the years ferries affordable housing

[5:03:36] Voice 1: housing, affordable rentals, vacation rentals, and tourism. But I think what's different now

[5:03:46] Voice 1: and why they are even more important is the inadequacies of these systems has been heightened

[5:03:53] Voice 1: by the pandemic. For example, the ferry system has known for years that they were going to face

[5:04:00] Voice 1: a large amount of retirements at all levels, and that their recruitment, training, and pay scale

[5:04:08] Voice 1: were lagging way behind. The pandemic came and accelerated the retirements, cut the training,

[5:04:16] Voice 1: and the pay didn't get any better. And since everyone was locked down, the revenue, or at

[5:04:23] Voice 1: at least a large part of the revenue for the ferries fell off also.

[5:04:30] Voice 1: So we're left,

[5:04:31] Voice 1: been left with a situation where many of the sailings are canceled mainly due

[5:04:36] Voice 1: to a lack of crew and some runs have, if they had two boats on the run,

[5:04:42] Voice 1: they're down to one boat because they don't have the,

[5:04:46] Voice 1: they don't even have a crew in the system. If someone calls in sick,

[5:04:50] Voice 1: then those uh that those runs will be canceled and i think another example and i don't know if

[5:04:57] Voice 1: this is true um in the gulf islands but is our housing and tourism area as part of our comp plan

[5:05:05] Voice 1: we did a housing needs analysis and a housing analysis and what it turns out is 40 percent of

[5:05:13] Voice 1: of the residential structures in our county are second homes

[5:05:18] Voice 1: and are considered empty

[5:05:20] Voice 1: for more than six months of the year.

[5:05:23] Voice 1: However, during the pandemic,

[5:05:25] Voice 1: when they were, no one wanted to be locked down

[5:05:27] Voice 1: in their condo in Seattle,

[5:05:29] Voice 1: so they all came to their homes in the islands.

[5:05:32] Voice 1: And it created a large influx of people

[5:05:36] Voice 1: that I guess those of us who were residents in the islands

[5:05:39] Voice 1: felt like there were a whole bunch of tourists.

[5:05:41] Voice 1: but when you really took a look at it they were just people who um living in their homes and it

[5:05:47] Voice 1: really showed the impact of those uh the amount of residences are there what happens when the

[5:05:53] Voice 1: people are actually uh living in those houses um and on the other side of that we're not sure how

[5:06:02] Voice 1: long that will last um you know will people move away or will they just continue to live in the

[5:06:07] Voice 1: Islands and use their formerly primary residents as their second home. We are also addressing the

[5:06:19] Voice 1: vacation rental situation. Our council in 2018 enacted a long list of regulations on vacation

[5:06:28] Voice 1: rentals, which also included fines and ways of taking away their permit. They've worked to a

[5:06:37] Voice 1: to a great extent, they have worked and people are in compliance. We have fewer people applying for

[5:06:44] Voice 1: vacation rental permits and many people decided it was too much of a hassle to do it.

[5:06:54] Voice 10: Uh-oh, looks

[5:06:58] Voice 32: like we lost you, Jamie. Let

[5:07:06] Voice 15: me give you a moment to recover.

[5:07:11] Voice 15: Marta, are you still there? Yeah, I see you moving. So the connection to

[5:07:17] Trustee Luckham: Washington is

[5:07:18] Trustee Luckham: still functioning yes i'm here well

[5:07:24] Voice 32: that's unfortunate um okay

[5:07:35] Trustee Luckham: so i think uh i'm gonna

[5:07:37] Trustee Luckham: anticipate that he's not going to return um we are destined to go into a break uh 215 i'm inclined

[5:07:46] Trustee Luckham: just to follow through with that given that we cut your lunch break a wee bit short um

[5:07:53] Trustee Luckham: and then we'll be starting up with i'll get somehow sound biosphere region initiative and

[5:07:58] Trustee Luckham: And that will be Ruth Simons will be our guest.

[5:08:01] Trustee Luckham: Is there any, I see Laura, Patrick, you had your hand up there.

[5:08:06] Trustee Patrick: I was going to say I'd love for him to, yes, return because this was such rich data.

[5:08:11] Trustee Patrick: So he's back.

[5:08:12] Trustee Luckham: Are

[5:08:13] Voice 1: you back with us, Jamie?

[5:08:14] Voice 1: I'm back with you.

[5:08:15] Voice 1: I made it all the way through.

[5:08:17] Trustee Luckham: Fabulous.

[5:08:18] Trustee Luckham: That was a bit of a startle.

[5:08:20] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[5:08:21] Trustee Luckham: Let's go back to you while we've still got the time.

[5:08:23] Voice 1: Well, I just was about to finish up.

[5:08:25] Voice 1: we found that the other thing is in some areas where there were small lots that

[5:08:31] Voice 1: a saturation of vacation rentals became an issue so we're looking at trying to figure out a way to

[5:08:39] Voice 1: address that issue also and other than that i'd be glad to take your questions or

[5:08:46] Voice 1: when i talk to claire i realize you have a lot of things on the table which are really similar

[5:08:50] Voice 1: to what we're dealing with right now well

[5:08:53] Trustee Luckham: our our worlds are are remarkably similar um uh and in

[5:09:00] Trustee Luckham: fact the even our ferry system um here uh it seems to me there are regular sailing cancellings because

[5:09:08] Trustee Luckham: of a lack of crew so uh it's the same thing across the board but let's go to questions and i have

[5:09:15] Trustee Luckham: trustee fenton followed by trustee grove and trustee fenton from theta silence um

[5:09:21] Trustee Fenton: yeah thank

[5:09:22] Trustee Fenton: you uh chair and jamie for your uh update i my question is more general and probably to both you

[5:09:29] Trustee Fenton: in that regard but is there some i think this is a great opportunity to have this kind of

[5:09:34] Trustee Fenton: conversation is there an annual forum or anything a potential where we can just have these this kind

[5:09:41] Trustee Fenton: of discussion um i'll just

[5:09:45] Trustee Luckham: jump in and say yes there is and we have normally done that but the

[5:09:50] Trustee Luckham: pandemic uh since it's remarkable that's march 2020 was the last time we gathered together and

[5:09:57] Trustee Luckham: we haven't managed to establish that electronically but uh certainly i know that jamie and his council

[5:10:03] Trustee Luckham: would be very much interested as i am and i know that many of you are so um yes would be the answer

[5:10:10] Trustee Luckham: let's get back to doing that right Jamie exactly thank you trustee Grove Jamie

[5:10:19] Trustee Grove: I'm good to see you

[5:10:20] Trustee Grove: Peter Grove from Salt Spring Island and uh God you've been there forever haven't you but that's

[5:10:25] Trustee Grove: fine good to see you anyway

[5:10:28] Voice 1: I can say the same about you yeah yeah I

[5:10:35] Trustee Grove: had a full head of hair

[5:10:36] Trustee Grove: when I started. You talk about vacation rentals. What's the housing situation? And

[5:10:43] Trustee Grove: you have a homeless population. Do you have a shortage of housing? What's going on in that

[5:10:49] Trustee Grove: department?

[5:10:51] Voice 1: We don't have a large, we have a few homeless people, not a large homeless population.

[5:10:58] Voice 1: We do have, you know, it's the same issue. We have our real estate is the second highest in

[5:11:06] Voice 1: the state and our earned wages are the second lowest in the state so even for a teacher to

[5:11:14] Voice 1: afford a house it's it's difficult we have done some programs we've just this year put on

[5:11:24] Voice 1: in the total county we've put on 54 new units like 10 percent maybe that are rental units

[5:11:32] Voice 1: um so so that's going to that's helped and also i think uh we might have mentioned this before but

[5:11:42] Voice 1: we have something uh called a real estate excise tax that the voters approved and it's a

[5:11:48] Voice 1: one percent on any real estate transaction and that's been able to generate um a few million

[5:11:56] Voice 1: dollars in the last couple years and we use that money to partner with non-profits that are doing

[5:12:02] Voice 1: these projects um and then it also helps to get other grants thank you jamie for

[5:12:09] Trustee Luckham: that trustee

[5:12:09] Trustee Luckham: patrick over to you

[5:12:11] Trustee Patrick: yes i'm fully aware of that tax you have and i'm entirely jealous because

[5:12:16] Trustee Patrick: here on salt spring in 2020 we had 188 million in real estate just the residential real estate and

[5:12:23] Trustee Patrick: to have had a piece of that pie would have been tremendous um i guess my question um

[5:12:29] Trustee Patrick: um do you have you seen any of the sort of this van living um effect that uh you know people

[5:12:37] Trustee Patrick: coming in into sort of living in ends of streets and places with vans are you seeing any of that

[5:12:42] Trustee Patrick: or camper vans or whatever that i forget what the terminology is used you

[5:12:47] Voice 1: know we're we're seeing

[5:12:49] Voice 1: more of it um earlier or during the summer i had had a couple complaints and it turned out that

[5:12:56] Voice 1: the people actually own the property um you know they just hadn't built on it yet but we are seeing

[5:13:02] Voice 1: more of that and it seems i don't know why but it seems more apparent uh in the fall than even

[5:13:09] Voice 1: during the summer um so i i'm not sure how we're going to deal with it entirely but yes i don't

[5:13:18] Voice 1: know are you seeing a lot of it

[5:13:19] Trustee Patrick: it's been yeah a significant increase here at least on salt spring

[5:13:23] Voice 1: and how do you deal with it we

[5:13:26] Trustee Patrick: haven't been dealing with it well i think the police have

[5:13:30] Trustee Patrick: been just trying to make parking areas there move them toward parking areas that are but

[5:13:34] Trustee Patrick: we don't have a good way of dealing with it and i'm concerned tofino has just

[5:13:41] Trustee Patrick: cracked down on them so there'll be vans moving out of that area so

[5:13:49] Trustee Luckham: and you know there's some anecdotal information that indicates that people that uh would normally

[5:13:57] Trustee Luckham: travel south across the border who are unable to do so in the winter months because the climate is

[5:14:02] Trustee Luckham: more pleasant on your side on parts of your side of the border that they are finding other places

[5:14:08] Trustee Luckham: in canada and on the west coast naturally because it's very pleasant here to spend those winter

[5:14:13] Trustee Luckham: or months and um that's anecdotal and i don't think i think it's part of it but not necessarily

[5:14:19] Trustee Luckham: all of it

[5:14:21] Voice 1: well we had uh kind of related to that the past two summers we have had a huge number of

[5:14:31] Voice 1: boats or yachts um as close to the canadian border as they can get without crossing it

[5:14:38] Voice 1: in the San Juans, you know, just because they normally would be going north, you know,

[5:14:46] Voice 1: possibly to Desolation Sound, but they want to get away. It's been pretty remarkable.

[5:14:54] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, and again, same, same. The yachters from Vancouver and the lower mainland are all sticking

[5:15:00] Trustee Luckham: around the Gulf Islands rather than going north or going south. So, yeah, and the price of fuel

[5:15:04] Trustee Luckham: doesn't help for the motorboats um that's certainly an impact any other questions for

[5:15:09] Trustee Luckham: jamie otherwise we are at 2 15 which is time for us to go to our break um and then we'll be

[5:15:15] Trustee Luckham: returning at uh at um 2 30. thank you um so uh marta uh green thank you ever so much for coming

[5:15:27] Trustee Luckham: here and uh you know maintaining this transporter relationship with san juan county and to jamie um

[5:15:35] Trustee Luckham: for joining us here also, Chair of San Juan County.

[5:15:40] Trustee Luckham: It's really great to see you both here

[5:15:42] Trustee Luckham: and thank you very much.

[5:15:43] Trustee Luckham: And so trustees,

[5:15:47] Voice 9: let's go to our break

[5:15:47] Voice 9: and

[5:15:47] Trustee Luckham: come back at 2.30 promptly

[5:15:49] Trustee Luckham: to welcome the Ketsam Howe Sound Biosphere Region Initiative

[5:15:54] Trustee Luckham: and Ruth Simons.

[5:15:55] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[5:15:56] Voice 1: I look forward to being in person.

[5:15:59] Voice 32: Absolutely.

[5:26:00] Voice 31: Oh, right in there.

[5:26:03] Voice 31: Oh yeah.

[5:26:06] Voice 31: he's wrong i'm just gonna hang out here hi

[5:26:12] Trustee Rogers: ruth hi

[5:26:14] Voice 31: well

[5:26:17] Trustee Rogers: we can hear you yes although your your

[5:26:19] Trustee Rogers: video is quite uh broken up um sorry

[5:26:24] Voice 22: i'm in the woods and i should go on mute if i'm not already

[5:26:27] Voice 22: yeah

[5:26:28] Trustee Rogers: you should yeah we're just on

[5:26:30] Trustee Rogers: our break we'll be back in three minutes

[5:26:32] Trustee Rogers: my

[5:29:11] Voice 26: job is to make college easy

[5:29:13] Voice 26: Thanks for watching.

[5:30:20] Trustee Luckham: Well, welcome back, trustees, and we're here now at Section 7.3 for our Kitson House Sound Biosphere Region Initiative update, and Ruth Simons has joined us as a guest here today, and it's an enormous pleasure to have you here.

[5:30:44] Trustee Luckham: It was really an honor to be at your biosphere announcement on Saturday and to see you being

[5:30:54] Trustee Luckham: recognized for the amazing work that you have done all this time.

[5:30:59] Trustee Luckham: So thank you, Ruth.

[5:31:00] Trustee Luckham: And I'm not going to say anything further, just turn it over to you to provide us an

[5:31:04] Trustee Luckham: update.

[5:31:07] Voice 22: Hi.

[5:31:08] Voice 22: Good afternoon.

[5:31:09] Voice 22: And thanks for having me.

[5:31:12] Voice 22: Can you hear me okay?

[5:31:14] Voice 22: Yes,

[5:31:15] Trustee Luckham: that's better volume now.

[5:31:17] Voice 22: Okay, great. Sorry, I'm actually on a tour still with the representatives from Canadian Commission for UNESCO, and I'm taking them on a tour of the forest here in Chichiyo-Yokokan, beautiful house down to see some of the really tall trees.

[5:31:33] Voice 22: And so I thought it was an appropriate spot to be able to, yes, announce our happy news about our designation by UNESCO as Canada's 19th Biosphere Region, as we call them here in Canada.

[5:31:50] Voice 22: Canada. We had the owner of Charlecum and trustees, Stanford, FASP, and Rogers to attend

[5:32:02] Voice 22: our celebration on Saturday night. It really is something to celebrate. People enjoyed

[5:32:08] Voice 22: the fact that we could actually celebrate something. But I think also hearing from the

[5:32:13] Voice 22: The Secretary General wrote a muse of the Canadian Commission for UNESCO announcing this honor, this prestigious designation was truly brought at home, I think, to everybody of where we're at.

[5:32:30] Voice 22: Biosphere regions are places for collaboration or bringing people together to solve complex

[5:32:38] Voice 22: work through complex issues much like Islands Trust does and to work on local solutions to

[5:32:45] Voice 22: global environmental issues. We were certainly conscious and I was mentioning that the preserve

[5:32:54] Voice 22: and protect mandate of the Islands Trust is a really big part of our story and why we felt

[5:33:00] Voice 22: One of the strong reasons why we felt we would qualify as a biosphere region.

[5:33:06] Voice 22: The process is long. It's rigorous.

[5:33:11] Voice 22: We're very grateful for all those that contributed.

[5:33:14] Voice 22: It was a grassroots effort, but without the cooperation and participation of those around the table at the House Sound Community Forum,

[5:33:22] Voice 22: Many content experts working with all levels of government to fill in the content that we needed to demonstrate really our region's success on moving sustainable development or moving forward in a sustainable way together of all of the amazing restoration projects that have taken place around the Sound.

[5:33:45] Voice 22: around the effects of the restoration and regulation that's brought in control, but

[5:33:54] Voice 22: mostly, and in a big part, our work with the Squamish Nation.

[5:33:59] Voice 22: The Squamish Nation have been at the table participating in the forums since they were

[5:34:05] Voice 22: formed in the year 2000.

[5:34:07] Voice 22: Bill Williams was signatory to the principles for cooperation.

[5:34:11] Voice 22: And while people have changed, councils have turned over, sustaining those forums is a really key aspect of keeping communities of communities together in conversation around the future of our regions.

[5:34:29] Voice 22: I strongly believe that all of British Columbia, many, many regions in our province could become

[5:34:38] Voice 22: recognized as UNESCO Biosphere Regions.

[5:34:41] Voice 22: We're the third in British Columbia.

[5:34:43] Voice 22: So now that we've gotten to this stage, we look forward to collaborating more with our

[5:34:50] Voice 22: various partners and across the Salish Sea to Mount Arosis Biosphere Research Institute

[5:35:00] Voice 22: and working on projects together to just keep advancing our objectives so I'll

[5:35:10] Voice 22: just end by saying a little bit about next steps we are required to now put

[5:35:17] Voice 22: together a management plan for the biosphere region and that'll be a

[5:35:20] Voice 22: multi-sector initiative that will undertake much in the way we approached

[5:35:27] Voice 22: our nomination document so we'll be hosting at some house sound biosphere

[5:35:34] Voice 22: roundtables. We'll be following a template of management plan and exciting next steps which

[5:35:44] Voice 22: will take us as the kind of guiding document towards our 10-year periodic review. The UNESCO

[5:35:52] Voice 22: designation is something that's meant to be sustained forever and with this management

[5:35:57] Voice 22: plan and good strong strategic planning year after year and checking in and measuring our

[5:36:06] Voice 22: success um that's that's really our focus now is sustainable funding and succession and building

[5:36:14] Voice 22: stronger partnerships with universities and other various partners that's my update thank you very

[5:36:24] Trustee Luckham: much ruth for taking time out and i see that council is applauding you and all of your

[5:36:30] Trustee Luckham: colleagues um on this significant accomplishment thanks

[5:36:36] Voice 22: very much i look forward to seeing you at

[5:36:38] Voice 22: the next house down community forum maybe october 22nd on aqualica lowen island okay

[5:36:44] Voice 32: let's hope so

[5:36:46] Trustee Rogers: mr chair i think uh that we have a short two minute video is that right lori yes that's

[5:36:53] Trustee Luckham: correct all right then so let's go to the video um and then we'll move along on our agenda so

[5:36:59] Trustee Luckham: So, Lori, thank you.

[5:37:09] Voice 26: ...easier because

[5:37:09] Voice 26: students have a lot going on.

[5:37:22] Voice 22: Our

[5:37:24] Voice 36: story begins with the Squamish and Coast Salish peoples,

[5:37:28] Voice 36: guardians and knowledge keepers of these waters and lands.

[5:37:32] Voice 36: Perched on the edge of Vancouver, Canada,

[5:37:34] Voice 36: this majestic

[5:37:35] Voice 36: fjord is teeming with biodiversity

[5:37:38] Voice 36: from mountaintop

[5:37:39] Trustee Rogers: to ocean bed.

[5:37:41] Trustee Rogers: once

[5:37:42] Voice 36: devastated by industrialization the region has undergone a dramatic but fragile ecological

[5:37:48] Voice 36: turnaround after decades life is finally resurfacing life between the mountains and

[5:37:59] Voice 36: sea is rich this region provides a place for learning a place for connection with self with

[5:38:07] Voice 36: nature and with community a place to grow and develop sustainably a place of pride for those

[5:38:15] Voice 36: who live here a place of optimism and hope our vision is a region where biodiversity is protected

[5:38:23] Voice 36: and humanity thrives people pulling together sharing their passion for this treasured area

[5:38:30] Voice 36: and co-creating the future of atkat somehow sound

[5:38:34] Voice 36: a future where people and commerce can exist in harmony with nature join the conversation

[5:38:41] Voice 36: as we collaboratively address issues for our region based on a collective vision of place

[5:38:52] Voice 7: so it's 10 30 on a week beautiful thank you

[5:38:59] Trustee Luckham: um i wonder um dan in the last moment share this

[5:39:06] Trustee Luckham: section here or or um or um or sue allen past or um kate we stanford um attendees at the

[5:39:16] Trustee Luckham: announcement do you have anything you'd like to share only

[5:39:20] Trustee Rogers: that it's hard to it's hard to

[5:39:23] Trustee Rogers: overstate the impact that Ruth's work has has done in this area and all the people that are involved

[5:39:29] Trustee Rogers: in the recognition of Ruth at the at the uh celebration on Saturday night by the Squamish

[5:39:35] Trustee Rogers: Nation was really quite moving and uh those it's it's clear those kinds of partnerships and

[5:39:41] Trustee Rogers: relationships are key to this type of of uh this type of accomplishment so I'll just say that.

[5:39:54] Trustee Stamford: i'll just add that um the process that this is um began actively about six years ago but

[5:40:04] Trustee Stamford: um i remember speaking with uh ruth when we were both abandoned at mcnab creek which is the

[5:40:13] Trustee Stamford: potential site for a gravel pit and to look across house m and suddenly go beyond the islands to

[5:40:21] Trustee Stamford: seeing this as a region that was sort of the first time i saw the vision and and how to move from

[5:40:29] Trustee Stamford: visioning and just chatting to actually making this a region um that has never been considered

[5:40:37] Trustee Stamford: uh regionally before uh it was so much work and um it's so many different partners across

[5:40:44] Trustee Stamford: across Alcatzam House that all came together

[5:40:48] Trustee Stamford: and keep working in the same direction.

[5:40:50] Trustee Stamford: So it's just a phenomenal move

[5:40:53] Trustee Stamford: and one of the fastest UNESCO biosphere processes

[5:40:59] Trustee Stamford: that I've never heard of.

[5:41:00] Trustee Stamford: So six years.

[5:41:03] Voice 15: Thank you.

[5:41:05] Voice 15: Go ahead Sue-El.

[5:41:07] Trustee Fast: I'll just chip in a little bit to add

[5:41:10] Trustee Fast: because it relates to some of the other islands.

[5:41:12] Trustee Fast: I uh uh we had a small gathering on Bowen in the pouring rain um uh last week I think on Thursday

[5:41:20] Trustee Fast: and um uh of the people on Bowen who'd been involved but really I think the whole overall

[5:41:28] Trustee Fast: effort people could trace it back 50 years is what I heard uh at the celebration on the weekend

[5:41:34] Trustee Fast: and um I just wanted to say I got in touch with Ed Andrusiak uh over there um what's it

[5:41:43] Trustee Fast: it saturn i forget where he is anyway i got in touch with him by email and said galliano oh yes

[5:41:49] Trustee Fast: that's right galliano where do you have the email of paul skite a former senior planner with metro

[5:41:55] Trustee Fast: vancouver regional parks when he had come to bowen uh some 15 years ago looking around for

[5:42:00] Trustee Fast: uh where are the possibilities for new parks i was uh uh one of the people he talked to and i said

[5:42:07] Trustee Fast: well there's this place that place here's a connection or look at that down how sound

[5:42:12] Trustee Fast: and he said what is the sustainability plan for how sound uh and i said well i don't know but i

[5:42:20] Trustee Fast: think today here it is so now i have his email address and i'm going to answer his question

[5:42:24] Trustee Fast: i'm just looking forward to a more sustainable uh future for all of us over here and um i like

[5:42:31] Trustee Fast: ruth's idea about reaching across to mount aerosmith and there's a lot of islands trust

[5:42:36] Trustee Fast: Thank you.

[5:42:39] Voice 15: Thank

[5:42:40] Trustee Luckham: you, Sue Ellen.

[5:42:41] Trustee Luckham: So I think that you can see the photograph that I've not a good photograph I apologize, but that's a photograph that I've shared on the screen here with you are Ruth being blanketed and receiving a beautiful panel paddle, and as the, and I forget their names

[5:42:56] Trustee Luckham: Dan, you can help me, the gentleman on the right and the lady on the

[5:42:59] Trustee Luckham: left, my picture from the

[5:43:03] Trustee Luckham: Squamish nation and the gentleman had indicated to Ruth that as the captain of the canoe she was

[5:43:11] Trustee Luckham: being honoured with this paddle in order and he was more than happy and proud to be in a canoe

[5:43:16] Trustee Luckham: with her as captain and indeed it was a very wonderful event. So there you go. Let us on that

[5:43:27] Trustee Luckham: that note, let us continue on with our own agenda here now. And I'm going to apologize because I

[5:43:36] Trustee Luckham: don't know who's going to take the lead on the select committee update unless Lee Middleton has

[5:43:41] Trustee Luckham: managed to join us. Otherwise, I think, Trustee Longer, you are the co-chair, vice chair of that

[5:43:48] Trustee Luckham: committee. And would you like to provide us, are you able to provide us with an update on the most

[5:43:54] Trustee Luckham: recent activities there yes

[5:43:57] Voice 37: yeah i can i'll do that a little more mundane than what we just heard

[5:44:02] Voice 37: this lot the last presentation but yeah so we had our meeting on september the 13th and the

[5:44:08] Voice 37: gist of it was that the interviews with trustees was very positive it was it was positive for the

[5:44:15] Voice 37: consultants and from their impression as well it was very positive for all the trustees that

[5:44:20] Voice 37: participated. At that point in time, 24 had occurred, and I assume the last two have also

[5:44:28] Voice 37: occurred. So that part of their work is complete, the interviews anyway, and then they're going to

[5:44:37] Voice 37: be moving next into senior staff and interviewing with some government officials and First Nations

[5:44:44] Voice 37: and with other people that have been recommended by trustees and other other staff they got a lot

[5:44:52] Voice 37: of references a lot of uh referrals too many in fact but they they i think they said something

[5:44:59] Voice 37: like they could do 200 if they so choose but obviously not not a possibility so they're in

[5:45:06] Voice 37: midst of the interview process still and they will be completing that in the next while

[5:45:13] Voice 37: while. The gist of the, they gave us the gist of the interviews, and it was actually, it's quite

[5:45:20] Voice 37: interesting. I think they originally thought one hour meeting, you know, or a bit more. All of the

[5:45:27] Voice 37: interviews were at least an hour and a half, and they learned a lot through the interviews. They

[5:45:34] Voice 37: got a sense of where the trustees felt, what their role was, you know, some of the, the trustees also

[5:45:42] Voice 37: They also provided a lot of positive comments of strengths of the island trust and areas where they felt there should be some changes so they the responses from trustees was, was, was very well presented.

[5:45:57] Voice 37: They were quite they're very happy with the with the results.

[5:46:00] Voice 37: else um they did say oh everybody supports the mandate as they understand it and of course that

[5:46:09] Voice 37: qualifier it does indicate that there are slightly different views of what that mandate is first

[5:46:17] Voice 37: nation reconciliation was clearly supported by all no no question about that and everybody is

[5:46:23] Voice 37: looking to improve the governance of the islands trust to the extent that it's possible you know

[5:46:30] Voice 37: within the current framework and there were suggestions for beyond that legislative

[5:46:35] Voice 37: not within the scope but something that you know they provide comment on

[5:46:41] Voice 37: so the general sense was it was invaluable experience for them and going to the next

[5:46:48] Voice 37: stage with the staff etc first nations they will then start completing the picture you know from

[5:46:56] Voice 37: all perspectives. It's not just one perspective that they're going to be using. They did

[5:47:03] Voice 37: recognize there's themes, common themes, through a lot of the interviews and they went through a

[5:47:10] Voice 37: number of them. If you want I can point out some but you could also watch the video which is

[5:47:18] Voice 37: very worthwhile. One thing they pointed out is that there sort of was two primary views that

[5:47:25] Voice 37: that that that came out one was a view to try to work within the current framework and adjust it

[5:47:33] Voice 37: as much as possible provide some flexibility that's one uh a prevalent view and then the other

[5:47:38] Voice 37: view is more substantive changes to the way the trust operates and so you know they see the

[5:47:44] Voice 37: differences in views they recognize there's strong views held by trustees but and what they said and

[5:47:52] Voice 37: that to me really caught my eye as they said that whatever recommendations they come up with

[5:47:56] Voice 37: they're going to do to to unite not divide the different points of view i think that's critical

[5:48:04] Voice 37: that you know they're not going to take sides they're going to try to come up with recommendations

[5:48:09] Voice 37: that will enable to unite us um so that i i found that they're very helpful um they recognize that

[5:48:19] Voice 37: That legislative changes is not in scope and neither with the ITC, Island Trust Conservancy, but they realize that they can provide some comments and they will likely provide some comments on that.

[5:48:33] Voice 37: You know, it's up to, that's not within their purview, but they will, they were allowed to do it and they will do it.

[5:48:40] Voice 37: it um first nations they will be working with staff to you know coordinate that the interviews

[5:48:49] Voice 37: and uh with the government officials as well um ceo uh hotness pillar will assist in that process

[5:48:57] Voice 37: trying to get that going it was august was not a good time for some of the interviews especially

[5:49:04] Voice 37: for government with uh you know holidays etc so scheduling became a bit of an issue

[5:49:09] Voice 37: but generally very positive you know i'll say that that was their view of it and uh they're

[5:49:18] Voice 37: going to once they complete the uh the reviews they'll then start formulating some of their

[5:49:23] Voice 37: recommendations and as some arise that will be running it past the uh select committee they'll

[5:49:31] Voice 37: be bringing it forward so they don't want to have any a final report that provides a lot of

[5:49:36] Voice 37: surprises in terms of you know no awareness at all so over the next few meetings not October

[5:49:44] Voice 37: likely but subsequent to that there'll be maybe some discussion around you know where there's

[5:49:50] Voice 37: sort of some of their ideas that they're coming up with so at least there'll be some option there

[5:49:54] Voice 37: they really want to get a full spectrum of views and that's going to apply to the besides the First

[5:50:01] Voice 37: Nations and government the other people that have been selected and they want to interview

[5:50:05] Voice 37: interview people who have experience and knowledge of the governance aspect of the

[5:50:11] Voice 37: islands trust I mean that's their their key focus is governance and management so

[5:50:16] Voice 37: they're looking you know the interviews they select interviewees they select will be

[5:50:21] Voice 37: focused on that aspect you know that they've got that background I think what else yeah I'm not

[5:50:31] Voice 37: sure what else to say other than it was very it was very positive uh um i don't know if you want

[5:50:41] Voice 37: to uh chime in uh uh chair luckham you can or anyone else in the committee if i've missed

[5:50:49] Voice 37: something or i i i'm not going into some of the themes but i can if you want uh i

[5:50:55] Trustee Luckham: i think that's

[5:50:56] Trustee Luckham: more than sufficient actually yeah yeah trustee long rice thank you very much and in fact um

[5:51:02] Trustee Luckham: and a self-serve aspect.

[5:51:05] Trustee Luckham: If you go to the meeting calendar on the website,

[5:51:07] Trustee Luckham: go to the September 13th, the last meeting,

[5:51:10] Trustee Luckham: you can see there's summary from the interviews

[5:51:14] Trustee Luckham: that they've done,

[5:51:15] Trustee Luckham: and I'm sure that you would find it interesting.

[5:51:17] Trustee Luckham: And we look forward to more reporting.

[5:51:21] Trustee Luckham: So I think that's,

[5:51:23] Trustee Luckham: and nothing from a staff perspective on that committee, no.

[5:51:26] Trustee Luckham: So that's great.

[5:51:28] Trustee Luckham: Thank you for stepping up, Trustee Langroyce.

[5:51:32] Trustee Luckham: um let us move on to section nine here

[5:51:35] Trustee Rogers: i have a question i wonder my hand is up

[5:51:36] Trustee Rogers: oh

[5:51:37] Trustee Luckham: actually i'm sorry i didn't see that okay questions so trustee rogers and trustee allen

[5:51:44] Trustee Rogers: uh thank you uh my question is i i could someone you or someone else sort of uh revise

[5:51:51] Trustee Rogers: what what you see the role of your select committee is going forward uh i'm i'm not

[5:51:56] Trustee Rogers: saying i and maybe you maybe i misunderstood what you said but i sort of heard you say you

[5:52:02] Trustee Rogers: you would get first look and vet some of the recommendations.

[5:52:05] Trustee Rogers: And I would have thought this group would have reported

[5:52:08] Trustee Rogers: to Trust Council, not to your committee.

[5:52:10] Trustee Rogers: So maybe you could clarify,

[5:52:14] Trustee Rogers: you or someone else in the community can sort of clarify

[5:52:17] Trustee Rogers: what you see the role of the select committee going forward.

[5:52:25] Voice 37: My understanding is that they would just run

[5:52:28] Voice 37: some of the ideas past us.

[5:52:30] Voice 37: We're not going to be reviewing the final draft

[5:52:35] Voice 37: draft of whatever they're going to be putting forward and uh it will be on the committee

[5:52:41] Voice 37: meeting it will be discussed and people are certainly willing to you can listen in on the

[5:52:48] Voice 37: on the uh meetings uh we haven't really talked we didn't talk about that specific question about

[5:52:55] Voice 37: reporting back on anything that we hear other than you know we will be doing a report in

[5:53:01] Voice 37: and presumably at the December Trust Council meeting.

[5:53:05] Voice 37: And that's a good point.

[5:53:07] Voice 37: Maybe that's something we need to talk about

[5:53:09] Voice 37: at the next meeting.

[5:53:10] Voice 37: Thank you.

[5:53:14] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Allen?

[5:53:17] Trustee Allen: Hi, Trustee Langer, you mentioned a video to watch.

[5:53:20] Trustee Allen: What video is that?

[5:53:21] Voice 37: Oh, sorry, the video of the meeting itself

[5:53:24] Voice 37: on September the 13th.

[5:53:27] Trustee Luckham: If

[5:53:27] Voice 37: you go to the

[5:53:28] Trustee Luckham: meeting calendar on September the 13th,

[5:53:31] Trustee Luckham: the committee meetings are recorded and live,

[5:53:34] Trustee Luckham: as all of our public meetings are and so it's available for you to see there any other questions

[5:53:44] Trustee Luckham: okay I will continue then with the regional planning services I just want to acknowledge

[5:53:52] Trustee Luckham: that David Mahler is off for some health reasons and I know that we all wish him a quick recovery

[5:54:01] Trustee Luckham: and look forward to seeing him back in his role here but in the meantime I want to acknowledge

[5:54:07] Trustee Luckham: Robert Kojima, Regional Planning Manager for the Southern team working out of the Victoria office

[5:54:12] Trustee Luckham: here. Not all of you will be as familiar with him as those of us that are in the Southern Gulf

[5:54:17] Trustee Luckham: Islands, but really want to thank you, Robert, for stepping up and filling in here. And indeed,

[5:54:23] Trustee Luckham: this was a bit of a surprise in terms of the agenda that you're here to help. And so I know

[5:54:29] Trustee Luckham: that you'll do as best as you can, but you may not be as well prepared as you might have been.

[5:54:34] Trustee Luckham: in but um you have a pretty high standard so i'm sure it'll be quite good so thank you for that

[5:54:41] Trustee Luckham: so first off we've got the general consent uh items which is items 9.1 and 9.2 um uh i'll just

[5:54:49] Trustee Luckham: ask if there's anything and either one of those that a trustee wishes to ask a question about

[5:54:56] Trustee Luckham: or see clarity otherwise we'll receive them according to the recommendations as presented

[5:55:01] Trustee Luckham: in those items so not seeing any hands up just want to make sure no so thank you then so we will

[5:55:09] Trustee Luckham: adopt the recommendations as presented in the items of 9.11 and 9.12 receiving for information

[5:55:17] Trustee Luckham: essentially and we'll go to item 9.2 and these are discussion items and for the first one would

[5:55:23] Trustee Luckham: be 9.2.1 and as acting director of local planning services robert kojima do you wish to speak to the

[5:55:30] Trustee Luckham: to the report that was written by David.

[5:55:33] Voice 3: Thank you, Chair Luckham.

[5:55:35] Voice 3: Maybe I'll just highlight two or three things

[5:55:38] Voice 3: from the director's report,

[5:55:39] Voice 3: and then I can try and answer any questions

[5:55:41] Voice 3: if any trustees have them.

[5:55:44] Voice 3: The first item that I'd highlight is the LPS renewal update.

[5:55:49] Voice 3: So along with the other ongoing initiatives,

[5:55:51] Voice 3: implementing the regional planning group

[5:55:53] Voice 3: and reviewing permit processing,

[5:55:55] Voice 3: there'll also be some policy revisions,

[5:55:58] Voice 3: the revisions to trust council policies several of them coming to trust council the next meeting

[5:56:04] Voice 3: for review and then scheduled for consideration of adopting amendments at the march trust council

[5:56:13] Voice 3: the second item i'd highlight is the you heard this earlier um in trust council is the local

[5:56:20] Voice 3: government development application program grant that islands trust has been successful in getting

[5:56:27] Voice 3: just over $360,000. This is a BC government grant administered by the UBCM. It's for review

[5:56:35] Voice 3: of application processing and the proposal is to have sort of two elements to that.

[5:56:44] Voice 3: One would be an external review of our application processes with recommendations hopefully coming

[5:56:51] Voice 3: coming from that.

[5:56:52] Voice 3: And then the second,

[5:56:54] Voice 3: and probably the bulk of the funding

[5:56:56] Voice 3: would go to replacing our old software,

[5:56:59] Voice 3: our old proprietary software.

[5:57:01] Voice 3: Some of you may be familiar,

[5:57:04] Voice 3: Hurt Planners refer to TAPIS, T-A-P-I-S,

[5:57:07] Voice 3: Trust Area Property Information System.

[5:57:10] Voice 3: It's been developed specifically for Islands Trust.

[5:57:12] Voice 3: It's used as old platforms and applications,

[5:57:17] Voice 3: and it's becoming increasingly expensive

[5:57:19] Voice 3: to maintain and and keep that operating and the goal would be to replace that software with an

[5:57:27] Voice 3: industry standard software that other local governments use that not only would have

[5:57:31] Voice 3: replaced that but would have a lot more functionality to it in terms of

[5:57:36] Voice 3: tracking application processing reporting on it and allowing for integration with online fee

[5:57:45] Voice 3: fee payments, integrating with office suites,

[5:57:50] Voice 3: like generating letters and things like that.

[5:57:53] Voice 3: So that's quite exciting.

[5:57:56] Voice 3: And I think that's a two year program

[5:57:58] Voice 3: to complete that grant up to two years.

[5:58:00] Voice 3: We'd have up to two years to complete that.

[5:58:03] Voice 3: The third item I'd highlight is also something

[5:58:06] Voice 3: that you heard about earlier,

[5:58:07] Voice 3: and that's the expiration of ministerial order 192

[5:58:12] Voice 3: and bill 10.

[5:58:13] Voice 3: so basically the provisions that are allowing for um electronic meetings um during covid is

[5:58:21] Voice 3: expiring as you know next week um the government is replacing that with a regulation that would

[5:58:28] Voice 3: allow regular meetings to be held electronically um but like the current regulation for special

[5:58:34] Voice 3: special meetings will require staff location for the public where they can listen or watch and

[5:58:42] Voice 3: listen to the meeting so that's the difference between what would be we would be moving to in

[5:58:47] Voice 3: the future versus what we've been doing for the last 18 months where we've just been meeting purely

[5:58:52] Voice 3: electronically and the other element to that is the local trust committees will need to amend

[5:58:58] Voice 3: their meeting procedures bylaws to implement this and you'll be getting a briefing shortly

[5:59:04] Voice 3: with some draft wording and it's an

[5:59:07] Voice 3: administrative bylaw so it would be three readings executive

[5:59:10] Voice 3: committee approval and followed by adoption so those are the main highlights from david's report

[5:59:15] Voice 3: so try and answer any questions if anyone has any thank you thank

[5:59:20] Trustee Luckham: you well done robert um any

[5:59:22] Trustee Luckham: questions for the acting regional acting director of regional planning services

[5:59:29] Trustee Luckham: I'm not seeing any, so thank you very much for that.

[5:59:35] Trustee Luckham: So let us move then to 9.2.2.

[5:59:39] Trustee Luckham: There's three recommendations here

[5:59:43] Trustee Luckham: for two independent reports,

[5:59:45] Trustee Luckham: shoreline protection modeling

[5:59:47] Trustee Luckham: and residential floor area ratios.

[5:59:50] Trustee Luckham: And then the recommendation to ask trust committees

[5:59:56] Trustee Luckham: to advise regional planning committee

[5:59:58] Trustee Luckham: of their interest in these.

[6:00:00] Trustee Luckham: So I'll just turn it over to Robert to introduce them as he sees fit, and then we'll go to a discussion here.

[6:00:07] Trustee Luckham: So

[6:00:08] Voice 3: these are, as you said, Sherlock, and these are two reports.

[6:00:12] Voice 3: They were a strategic plan or are strategic plan items.

[6:00:17] Voice 3: The creation of these reports was led by the Regional Planning Committee and were delivered by consultants funded into this fiscal year's budget.

[6:00:28] Voice 3: RPCs received them and is requesting the Trust Council refer these reports to local trust committees for their consideration in their project work.

[6:00:40] Voice 3: And also the third element is that local trust means that do undertake a project based on these that they inform regional planning committee.

[6:00:51] Voice 3: And then if Trust Council proceeds as recommended, staff will prepare a briefing that will go to all of the local trust committees with the report, some reports attached.

[6:01:04] Trustee Luckham: Okay, thank you, Robert. I would like to offer the courtesy to the Chair of Regional Planning Committee. If you have any brief remarks with respect to these reports and the request to Council. Otherwise, we'll just ask if there's questions.

[6:01:22] Trustee Luckham: Laura Beshaken.

[6:01:25] Trustee Luckham: No? Okay, thank you. So then, are there any questions on any of these reports or is anybody wishing to make a motion? So I see Trustee Morrison and Trustee Patrick.

[6:01:42] Trustee Morrison: yes thank you um so i was surprised when reading the residential flora area ratio report

[6:01:49] Trustee Morrison: to note a couple things so for instance um pander island has had that as part of our land use bylaw

[6:01:57] Trustee Morrison: that particular aspect or we've been in deep conversation with our planner about it for at

[6:02:02] Trustee Morrison: least a year maybe a year and a half and we have several reports internally and yet i don't see

[6:02:08] Trustee Morrison: Planner Stockville listed here, nor do I see the work on North Pender involved in this conversation,

[6:02:14] Trustee Morrison: and that concerns me that there is duplication going on. And so I wonder if, especially

[6:02:23] Trustee Morrison: Planner Kojima, like you're listed here, but you're also aware of the southern team,

[6:02:27] Trustee Morrison: if you could just help me understand if that work was used or how to acknowledge that time

[6:02:32] Trustee Morrison: from kim in particular so

[6:02:35] Voice 3: you're referring to the land use bylaw review work that's going on

[6:02:39] Trustee Morrison: which involves quite extensive reporting related to residential floor area

[6:02:44] Voice 3: yep i'm not sure how the out if the applicants used that or the consultants used that

[6:02:49] Voice 3: report in developing their report their analysis there are some floor area ratio regulations

[6:02:56] Voice 3: for commercial uses in some of the southern gulf islands bylaws right now so they would have looked

[6:03:03] Voice 3: at what's existing in the bylaws for sure um yeah i'm not sure if how extensively they looked at

[6:03:09] Voice 3: ongoing projects where four ratio may be one option that's being considered thank

[6:03:18] Trustee Luckham: you for that

[6:03:20] Trustee Luckham: we're going to go to trustee patrick for your question i

[6:03:25] Trustee Patrick: know i think deb that was there

[6:03:27] Trustee Patrick: I was hoping Laura Bershaken was going to jump in as the chair.

[6:03:33] Trustee Patrick: There were a few questions that did arise on the residential floor area report in particular at the committee level.

[6:03:41] Trustee Patrick: And one of them was sort of the environmental lens wasn't really applied well as to which of the recommendations had the better environmental outcome to it and so forth.

[6:03:54] Trustee Patrick: So there is more work coming.

[6:03:56] Trustee Patrick: coming. As I understood the decision, and Laura, jump in and correct me, was that we wanted to get

[6:04:02] Trustee Patrick: the reports out there since they existed because of the work that's happening on some of the islands

[6:04:07] Trustee Patrick: already. And that's really what explains the third one. I can see some trustees going,

[6:04:14] Trustee Patrick: why do I have to report what I'm doing? But we realized that when model bylaws are an intent

[6:04:21] Trustee Patrick: of some of these projects, that it would be better to build those model bylaws based on

[6:04:25] Trustee Patrick: on actual projects happening on the ground

[6:04:27] Trustee Patrick: rather than trying to apply them the other way around.

[6:04:30] Trustee Patrick: And so that was trying to make sure to align

[6:04:33] Trustee Patrick: a floor area ratio discussion like this

[6:04:36] Trustee Patrick: with what's happening in North Pender and South Pender

[6:04:39] Trustee Patrick: and whoever else has got interest in it.

[6:04:42] Trustee Patrick: But I just wanted to add those comments.

[6:04:44] Trustee Patrick: And I see Laura's got her hand waving away now.

[6:04:47] Trustee Luckham: Okay, let's hear from the chair

[6:04:49] Trustee Luckham: of regional planning committee.

[6:04:53] Trustee Luckham: And we'll have to turn your microphone on

[6:04:55] Trustee Luckham: otherwise you won't hear me.

[6:04:59] Trustee Busheikin: Yeah, thank you. So thanks, Deb and Laura, for your comments. And I think that I really

[6:05:07] Trustee Busheikin: appreciate Trustee Morrison asking that question. And it's been an ongoing question all term

[6:05:14] Trustee Busheikin: is how to ensure that we are really working collaboratively as a region. And that's, you

[6:05:22] Trustee Busheikin: know, was part of changing the name of this committee to Regional Planning Committee is

[6:05:25] Trustee Busheikin: to recognize that we do that so I'm not quite sure how that got missed or left out and I think

[6:05:33] Trustee Busheikin: it's just good that it's been noted and the acting planner director Kojima could just sort of take a

[6:05:42] Trustee Busheikin: note of that and yeah I'm not quite sure where to take it but we'll keep it in mind in in our

[6:05:50] Trustee Busheikin: our committee work for sure. One thing that did happen with this particular consultant in these

[6:05:57] Trustee Busheikin: two projects that doesn't usually happen is that in my role as chair, I did meet the consultant

[6:06:03] Trustee Busheikin: and I was part of the meeting where staff provided the briefing and was able to fill in

[6:06:09] Trustee Busheikin: some of the things that maybe are just more noticeable to trustees. And that included

[6:06:17] Trustee Busheikin: some older reports I brought to her attention

[6:06:21] Trustee Busheikin: and add the work going on on Maine Island.

[6:06:24] Trustee Busheikin: So I think that kind of thing is a good way.

[6:06:27] Trustee Busheikin: The fact is sometimes trustees know certain things

[6:06:30] Trustee Busheikin: that staff know and sometimes staff know things

[6:06:32] Trustee Busheikin: that trustees don't know.

[6:06:34] Trustee Busheikin: So I think that level of cooperation is really called for.

[6:06:37] Trustee Busheikin: And otherwise, yes, as Trustee Patrick said,

[6:06:40] Trustee Busheikin: there was a sense that we could take these reports further

[6:06:45] Trustee Busheikin: or get some additional work,

[6:06:47] Trustee Busheikin: but we wanted them to get out to LTCs right away

[6:06:51] Trustee Busheikin: because we heard that there was interest right away

[6:06:54] Trustee Busheikin: and there isn't a budget for further work

[6:06:57] Trustee Busheikin: and before finding and allocating a budget,

[6:06:59] Trustee Busheikin: we want to make sure that there's a widespread loop for that.

[6:07:03] Trustee Busheikin: And again, that goes back to that question of working as a region.

[6:07:06] Trustee Busheikin: So if a number of LTCs really want to see more work done,

[6:07:11] Trustee Busheikin: then we would certainly consider doing that as a regional project.

[6:07:17] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[6:07:18] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Fenton, Trustee Fast, and I'll put my own name on the list, just to ask a question.

[6:07:28] Trustee Fenton: Yeah, thank you.

[6:07:30] Trustee Fenton: I found the floor ratio interesting, and it's obviously going to just be part of a package.

[6:07:42] Trustee Fenton: Hello?

[6:07:51] Trustee Luckham: Are you there?

[6:07:53] Trustee Luckham: we've lost you there doug i think and now we're listening to your phone call

[6:07:57] Trustee Luckham: we

[6:07:57] Trustee Fast: can hear you we can hear you doug

[6:07:59] Trustee Fenton: okay i can't see you just a sec

[6:08:01] Trustee Fenton: oh there we go i'm sure what happened my phone went to

[6:08:07] Trustee Luckham: i think is it possible doug are you still there oops can you hear me yes that's better

[6:08:17] Trustee Luckham: Yes,

[6:08:18] Trustee Fast: we can hear you and we can see you.

[6:08:20] Trustee Fenton: Yep, finally I found you. A very small little icon.

[6:08:26] Trustee Fenton: Okay, so my question is just looking at the shoreline report and the recommendations etc.,

[6:08:35] Trustee Fenton: you know, it's all working in the right direction. One thing I don't see mentioned and maybe it's

[6:08:40] Trustee Fenton: outside of the scope of the work being done is that um how do we get to an implementable

[6:08:50] Trustee Fenton: you know point with this and part of that as far as i see is going to be education and how do we

[6:08:56] Trustee Fenton: get the residents to buy into this at a trust-wide scope um and so and sooner than later so this is

[6:09:06] Trustee Fenton: not even i don't i think they might have mentioned education but it's not really sort of part of the

[6:09:11] Trustee Fenton: one of the strategies um it talks just about how to get it into the actual day-to-day work

[6:09:19] Trustee Fenton: of the planning but not necessarily getting uh citizen level buy-in so my question is sort of

[6:09:28] Trustee Fenton: how is that part of the thought not being part of that conversation or the work how do we how

[6:09:36] Trustee Fenton: How do we get there? How do you see us getting there?

[6:09:42] Trustee Luckham: How do we bridge the gap?

[6:09:45] Trustee Luckham: Okay. It looks like Claire Fader, Trust Area Services, might have some suggestions to help here.

[6:09:53] Voice 23: Well, not suggestions, but I can note that Trust Programs Committee does have a stewardship education budget

[6:09:58] Voice 23: and has intended to have a project called Living in the Trust Area Mailing, which will be provided to new residents.

[6:10:05] Voice 23: and as they contemplate their budget request for next year certainly contemplate what education

[6:10:10] Voice 23: measures might be available to um further educate

[6:10:14] Voice 23: around shorelines and of course as part of the

[6:10:17] Voice 23: policy statement um engagement that we're going to be doing shoreline protection will inevitably

[6:10:21] Voice 23: be a theme and could be supportive to further education of constituents around the values

[6:10:27] Voice 23: associated with shorelines okay

[6:10:30] Trustee Luckham: that's good information so trustee fenton i'll get you to

[6:10:34] Trustee Luckham: lower your hand if that's all right you're finished and i'll go to trustee fast uh and then uh i just

[6:10:41] Trustee Luckham: have a remark and then i'll go back to lord beshaken to make some motions um

[6:10:45] Trustee Fast: thank you for

[6:10:46] Trustee Fast: the reports i i'm looking forward to working with them um i see bowen island mentioned in the text

[6:10:52] Trustee Fast: which is really helpful um and i'm encouraged by hearing that the work is still in progress and

[6:10:57] Trustee Fast: that uh local trust committees and maybe bowen island municipality might be able to be involved

[6:11:02] Trustee Fast: involved in the sort of piloting or initial ideas of how it might work I'll look forward to adding

[6:11:10] Trustee Fast: Bowen to the table one of the Shoreline version I'm sure their staff our staff over here at Bowen

[6:11:16] Trustee Fast: can come up with the cells for that very quickly and thanks I'm looking forward to working with

[6:11:23] Trustee Fast: them

[6:11:25] Trustee Luckham: great um so just my own remarks here in the in the chair of our rpc might um want to enhance

[6:11:33] Trustee Luckham: or deny anything that i say but the first two motions are essentially to get this document

[6:11:38] Trustee Luckham: into the ltc's hands and into your community's hands as well obviously but the third motion here

[6:11:44] Trustee Luckham: is the significant part in that um rpc is looking for um whether or not you have interest in

[6:11:51] Trustee Luckham: in advancing this, because of course, this is just a report.

[6:11:54] Trustee Luckham: It's actually not a draft guideline

[6:11:56] Trustee Luckham: or bylaw template at this point.

[6:11:59] Trustee Luckham: And at that point, obviously,

[6:12:02] Trustee Luckham: in this sort of referral process,

[6:12:04] Trustee Luckham: the opportunity for any of the LTCs

[6:12:06] Trustee Luckham: to refer what's happening in your communities

[6:12:09] Trustee Luckham: and what your interest is in this could come back to RPC.

[6:12:13] Trustee Luckham: And then potentially there might be for future work

[6:12:16] Trustee Luckham: on the actual development

[6:12:18] Trustee Luckham: of potential template draft bylaws.

[6:12:22] Trustee Luckham: But I'll turn it over to Laura Beshaken,

[6:12:27] Trustee Luckham: chair of the committee.

[6:12:28] Trustee Luckham: And I'm not sure whose hand is up here now,

[6:12:30] Trustee Luckham: but I see Dan Rogers has also raised his hand.

[6:12:34] Trustee Luckham: And Trustee Morrison has also raised her hand again.

[6:12:40] Trustee Luckham: And so I'll leave it to Laura

[6:12:42] Trustee Luckham: if she wants to make the motion at this point,

[6:12:44] Trustee Luckham: or has another remark and wants to hear

[6:12:46] Trustee Luckham: from the other two members of council yeah

[6:12:50] Trustee Busheikin: thank you that would be the latter i have a remark and

[6:12:53] Trustee Busheikin: i'm i'm i think that this discussion is useful for all the members of rpc because this you know

[6:13:00] Trustee Busheikin: i was hinting at before like this question of how most effectively to work regionally as a planning

[6:13:06] Trustee Busheikin: committee is still an open question uh and this you know what's being suggested in suggested motion

[6:13:14] Trustee Busheikin: motion number three is something a little bit new

[6:13:18] Trustee Busheikin: and to just try and keep us doing the work

[6:13:22] Trustee Busheikin: that's gonna get used and that is on the minds of LTCs.

[6:13:26] Trustee Busheikin: And I just wanted to make one more comment

[6:13:30] Trustee Busheikin: in response to the question about education

[6:13:34] Trustee Busheikin: from Trustee Fenton.

[6:13:36] Trustee Busheikin: It isn't something I think that RPC has done,

[6:13:39] Trustee Busheikin: has created sort of almost public education templates

[6:13:44] Trustee Busheikin: that's a material that could accompany draft bylaws. And it could certainly be discussed. I

[6:13:52] Trustee Busheikin: mean, because if you're going to bring forward draft bylaws, you need to be able to tell the

[6:13:57] Trustee Busheikin: community about them. So I think if we get to the point of creating draft bylaws, knowing that a

[6:14:02] Trustee Busheikin: number of LTCs are actively interested in using them, I certainly would bring to the table the

[6:14:08] Trustee Busheikin: idea of creating some kind of educational material that could then be used uh by by every ltc rather

[6:14:14] Trustee Busheikin: than it happening individually thanks and i'll uh lower my hand for now okay

[6:14:21] Voice 14: so trustee rogers and

[6:14:23] Voice 14: morrison

[6:14:25] Trustee Rogers: thanks um first of all i note both of these uh reports are are six months old uh and

[6:14:34] Trustee Rogers: and maybe that's six months new,

[6:14:35] Trustee Rogers: but they were in March of 2021.

[6:14:38] Trustee Rogers: So they've been around for a while.

[6:14:43] Trustee Rogers: And I did note that in the shoreline

[6:14:45] Trustee Rogers: product protection model by-law,

[6:14:48] Trustee Rogers: I read it and I thought, oh, this sounds a lot

[6:14:50] Trustee Rogers: like what we're doing on Keats,

[6:14:52] Trustee Rogers: but I see that the planner that's working on that on Keats

[6:14:55] Trustee Rogers: is on the committee that's referenced there.

[6:14:57] Trustee Rogers: So clearly there was some collaboration there.

[6:14:59] Trustee Rogers: I must say, I'm following up on Trustee Morrison's question.

[6:15:02] Trustee Rogers: And I didn't notice, and maybe it's my, that the, I knew that North Pender was working on this. And it's a bit, more than a bit surprising to me that that work wouldn't be incorporated into the staff, into this report.

[6:15:18] Trustee Rogers: I wonder whether it's a bit preliminary to send it out to local trust committees without that work being incorporated in it.

[6:15:26] Trustee Rogers: And I heard the chair say, well, there's no more money, there's no more funding.

[6:15:31] Trustee Rogers: But I also heard them say, well, but we can incorporate that work into this.

[6:15:35] Trustee Rogers: Because I know if it came to my local trust committee, the first question I would ask is, well, what are they doing on North Pender?

[6:15:42] Trustee Rogers: Because I know they're working on it and it's not in this report.

[6:15:45] Trustee Rogers: So it's sort of an observation as opposed to a motion.

[6:15:52] Trustee Rogers: I'm wondering if this is a bit premature to send it out to local trust committees related,

[6:15:59] Trustee Rogers: at least not the shoreline one, but the other one, if it has not incorporated what, as I

[6:16:05] Trustee Rogers: understand to be some fairly detailed work in at least one local trust area.

[6:16:11] Trustee Rogers: But I put that as a question either to the director or to the chair or to anybody who would like to respond to it.

[6:16:21] Trustee Busheikin: I would like to hear from the director.

[6:16:23] Trustee Rogers: Thank you.

[6:16:25] Trustee Rogers: He's not here.

[6:16:26] Voice 3: Not to you

[6:16:26] Voice 3: on the spot, I'm sorry.

[6:16:27] Voice 3: I'll respond.

[6:16:28] Voice 3: Whatever you can add.

[6:16:30] Voice 3: I'll echo what

[6:16:30] Voice 3: Trustee Rogers noted is that the report's dated March 21st.

[6:16:35] Voice 3: So the consultant would have been working on it quite a while before that probably, for some time before that.

[6:16:41] Voice 3: that specifically for the north bender initiative it's i mean it's listed in the references on page

[6:16:47] Voice 3: 348 so the consultant had the material that would have been available at that time that he was he or

[6:16:53] Voice 3: she was working on the report so you know how that they'd show maybe chose not to incorporate that or

[6:16:58] Voice 3: it was too preliminary i don't i don't know

[6:17:02] Trustee Luckham: mr cao hunter

[6:17:04] Trustee Luckham: pillar would like to help you out here

[6:17:06] Trustee Luckham: well

[6:17:06] Voice 12: really it's at the pleasure of counsel you know i'm you know i have to say i'm not as familiar

[6:17:10] Voice 12: familiar with the exact elements associated with the project in North Pender and I don't know how

[6:17:14] Voice 12: much they vary from from this material here um if uh those in the know think there's a significant

[6:17:20] Voice 12: variation we can certainly take this back review it and attach a briefing that uh um provides some

[6:17:26] Voice 12: sort of uh you know synergies associated with those um if the the differences in the issues

[6:17:32] Voice 12: aren't uh so significant if it's more specific in North Pender maybe this could go out in that

[6:17:37] same conversation could be had if this is a

[6:17:40] Voice 12: template that's of value um so i think either

[6:17:44] Voice 12: option either acting today or returning it for exactly uh some sort of um cross-referencing

[6:17:51] Voice 12: let's say um and then brought back i don't think matters um one way or another we can go back to

[6:17:57] Voice 12: what rbc is really at your question all

[6:18:02] Trustee Luckham: right um so i'm wrecking you're going to recognize

[6:18:07] Trustee Luckham: uh trustee morrison and then um we'll need to decide what we're going to do with these items

[6:18:14] Trustee Luckham: trustee morrison thank

[6:18:16] Trustee Morrison: you so um yeah so our report for residential house size our initial

[6:18:21] Trustee Morrison: report was a year ago uh this time so that definitely was available into this space

[6:18:28] Trustee Morrison: um well in advance of this report um and i believe that south pender's also been working on this

[6:18:35] Trustee Morrison: so there's two islands here um so i think what i would like to see and this is in the public

[6:18:42] Trustee Morrison: it's included in our packet so we have access to it already um but before it becomes like an

[6:18:48] Trustee Morrison: official kind of reporting into the thing. I really am uncomfortable having a report like

[6:18:54] Trustee Morrison: this without the acknowledgement of Kim Stockdale on this because she's done an incredible amount

[6:18:58] Trustee Morrison: of work. And I just think it's disrespectful of her when there's other planners listed in this.

[6:19:03] Trustee Morrison: So I would like to see that at a minimum and then just like whatever is appropriate if folks look

[6:19:11] Trustee Morrison: at it and say there's differences or, you know, what needs to be incorporated or appended, that's

[6:19:15] Trustee Morrison: fine okay

[6:19:19] Trustee Luckham: so i see a number of other hands going up here now uh trustee fast at trustee critchley

[6:19:25] Trustee Luckham: um certainly if the council would prefer these go back to the regional planning committee for

[6:19:30] Trustee Luckham: reconsideration and return them at a later date that would be your uh choice um so trustee fast

[6:19:38] Trustee Luckham: and then quickly thank

[6:19:40] Trustee Fast: you um if the committee if trust council chooses to uh make any modifications

[6:19:46] Trustee Fast: to these reports or if there's any more work to be done on them I think it would be really helpful

[6:19:52] Trustee Fast: for Bowen Island municipality staff and especially Bowen Island councillors if there was a Bowen row

[6:20:00] Trustee Fast: on this table one which has all the local trust committees regulations in it that's my suggestion

[6:20:09] Trustee Fast: and possibly it was just that staff were too busy and didn't respond in the summer I have no idea

[6:20:15] Trustee Fast: i haven't asked anybody i'm just uh thinking if if that could be um added to the list thank you

[6:20:22] Voice 14: thank you trustee fast trustee gritsley thank

[6:20:26] Trustee Critchley: you uh i just wanted to focus on the

[6:20:29] Trustee Critchley: document which is entitled uh islands trust shoreline protection model bylaw report march

[6:20:34] Trustee Critchley: 2021. um the thing that seems notably absent from that document is actually a model bylaw

[6:20:41] Trustee Critchley: and um i i don't know there's a lot of interesting information there compiled together but you know

[6:20:50] Trustee Critchley: what are we to make of it it's you might do this you might do that here's some things

[6:20:56] Trustee Critchley: here's a legislative framework and so forth but there's no model bylaw and that to me would be

[6:21:04] Trustee Critchley: the most important element of the document i expected to see it as an appendix and it's not

[6:21:09] Trustee Critchley: not there. So I would like an explanation of why it's not there. And possibly, is it going to come

[6:21:19] Trustee Critchley: at a later date? And if so, when? Thank you.

[6:21:24] Trustee Luckham: Who would like to answer that question?

[6:21:28] Trustee Luckham: I'll take the start. Okay. Yeah,

[6:21:33] Voice 12: as noted, throughout the strategic plan, there's

[6:21:37] Voice 12: There's directions to provide model bylaws as a means of uniformly advancing local trust.

[6:21:46] Voice 12: There's probably four or five different instances of that, and this is one of those.

[6:21:50] Voice 12: And those have been, and as you know, we've been talking about trying to, all the way

[6:21:58] Voice 12: through the policy statement, through potential CP amendments, to provide enough commonality

[6:22:03] Voice 12: but enough difference on a local trust area to recognize both local areas and regional interest

[6:22:11] Voice 12: so my understanding is that this what's being presented to you is a variant on that

[6:22:15] Voice 12: instead of a full model bylaw um here's the key things and interest elements and i think

[6:22:20] Voice 12: our regional planning committee saying if you have an interest we'll draft you a bottle and instead

[6:22:26] Voice 12: of um you know having a model on then amending it a number of times um we would customize one

[6:22:33] Voice 12: with these core themes associated with it and i think that that was the notion that was was being

[6:22:39] Voice 12: tested here by providing it to you in this manner that's why there isn't a model bylaw associated

[6:22:44] Voice 12: because it might be so generic it would need significant updating in a local context that

[6:22:51] Voice 12: might not be the right approach we don't know if that's a significant challenge it's easy to take

[6:22:55] Voice 12: this back and come up with a model bylaw and bring a whole model bylaw back to you send it

[6:23:01] Voice 12: out and then you customize it for your individual um circumstances so i think we're testing a way to

[6:23:08] Voice 12: um as efficiently as possible achieve um the strategic direction and you know it's a it's

[6:23:15] Voice 12: it's a piece of work in in how we're doing that it's a bit of a new and learned behavior we do

[6:23:20] Voice 12: want to cross-reference as being themed here um those common pieces and make sure we're learning

[6:23:26] Voice 12: off of current projects and factoring them in as much as we possibly can so i think i think that's

[6:23:31] Voice 12: why you haven't got a model by law in front of you at this time okay

[6:23:37] Trustee Luckham: thank you um i see trustee

[6:23:40] Trustee Luckham: brent's hand up yeah

[6:23:44] Voice 5: just uh i'm quite uncomfortable with recommendation number three

[6:23:49] Voice 5: in that you're asking us to to uh say whether we intend to undertake a policy and we really

[6:23:58] Voice 5: haven't had the opportunity to consult again with um our community and it's a real problem for me

[6:24:07] Voice 5: somehow that that uh you know consultation is important and consultation with the community

[6:24:14] Voice 5: i represent is vitally important so i can't answer this question other than to say

[6:24:19] Voice 5: say, no, we're not going to do it. I would prefer that we take the recommendation number three,

[6:24:26] Voice 5: send it back to staff for updating, and that would give us time on our islands to see

[6:24:30] Voice 5: if there's a desire to support those type of regulations. That's my comment.

[6:24:42] Voice 5: Thank you.

[6:24:43] Voice 5: Can I just

[6:24:44] Trustee Busheikin: respond to that with some information?

[6:24:48] Trustee Busheikin: sorry go

[6:24:50] Trustee Luckham: ahead trustee bishakin

[6:24:52] Voice 15: what would you like uh

[6:24:53] Trustee Busheikin: yes thanks just um my understanding uh

[6:24:57] Trustee Busheikin: from the discussion uh that took place when we made that motion was not that you need to tell

[6:25:02] Trustee Busheikin: rpc immediately and that certainly your ltc can go and do that um consultation or you know sit

[6:25:13] Trustee Busheikin: down with your projects lists or whatever you need to do and that when we hear from you we'll

[6:25:19] Trustee Busheikin: hear from you and then we'll see who else we've heard from and act accordingly so it's certainly

[6:25:23] Trustee Busheikin: not like tell us now and and as well and as CAO Hodson pointed out this is a a new way of working

[6:25:33] Trustee Busheikin: that we're that's why it is somewhat open-ended when it's not I don't want to say we're making

[6:25:42] Trustee Busheikin: it up as we go along that's maybe too ad hoc but it is uh we're just trying a new a new way of

[6:25:48] Trustee Busheikin: doing this so um it is open-ended we don't need an answer immediately all right

[6:25:55] Trustee Luckham: so it's a look to

[6:25:57] Trustee Luckham: trustee rogers hand up here but it's striking me that what we want to do here is return this

[6:26:02] Trustee Luckham: to the regional planning committee for further work um but um it's up to

[6:26:07] Trustee Rogers: you i'm about to make

[6:26:08] Trustee Rogers: a motion sir to that thank

[6:26:09] Trustee Luckham: you trust thank you trustee rogers and

[6:26:12] Trustee Rogers: i want i i sent a draft motion

[6:26:14] Trustee Rogers: to uh lori there um so i think there's two things that might be missing here one is the recognition

[6:26:23] Trustee Rogers: of the work being done on north pender and south player and the other is i forget who identified

[6:26:27] Trustee Rogers: that it that the report didn't identify i did environmental benefits of of floor area

[6:26:34] Trustee Rogers: I don't know how much of a piece of work that is

[6:26:37] Trustee Rogers: and it may require more, but my motion is

[6:26:40] Trustee Rogers: that trust council refer the residential floor area report

[6:26:43] Trustee Rogers: back to the regional planning committee

[6:26:45] Trustee Rogers: and request that the report incorporate the work being done

[6:26:48] Trustee Rogers: on North Bender and South Bender,

[6:26:51] Trustee Rogers: and sorry for not putting in islands

[6:26:54] Trustee Rogers: and to update the report

[6:26:56] Trustee Rogers: to identify environmental benefits.

[6:26:58] Trustee Rogers: that

[6:27:02] Trustee Luckham: okay um that's moved um i'm just gonna say because it's on my mind this was the work of a

[6:27:13] Trustee Luckham: consultant and we would obviously have to reopen that up and that would probably cost more i don't

[6:27:18] Trustee Luckham: know don't know i just don't know so do i have a secondary i don't want to second seconded by

[6:27:25] Trustee Luckham: trustee beshaken by looks like and so then moved and seconded is there any further lower your hand

[6:27:31] Trustee Luckham: there dan anybody to speak to the motion no so then i'm going to call the vote all those in favor

[6:27:39] Trustee Luckham: raise your digital hands if you don't mind sorry setting bad example here um so i've got 19 20

[6:27:47] Trustee Luckham: in favor anybody on the phone that hasn't voted for the digital hand no then uh lower your hands

[6:27:55] Trustee Luckham: please any opposed and not opposed so that carries unanimously thank you very much dan for your

[6:28:04] Trustee Luckham: assistance on that one is there anything further uh that you would like to do particularly with

[6:28:09] Trustee Luckham: the shoreline protection well

[6:28:11] Trustee Rogers: i'm prepared to move the second recommendation if um so i would move

[6:28:16] Trustee Rogers: that trust council forward the shoreline protection model bylaw report dated march 2021 to local trust

[6:28:21] Trustee Rogers: committees and bowen island municipality for information do

[6:28:27] Trustee Luckham: you have a seconder uh trustee

[6:28:31] Trustee Luckham: Wilberton thank you very much um did you wish to speak to the motion trustee rodney uh

[6:28:37] Trustee Rogers: i mean i

[6:28:37] Trustee Rogers: read the report and it was pretty clear that the model bylaws weren't there and uh and as i

[6:28:43] Trustee Rogers: understood the report it was saying if you want us to work on model bylaws uh let us know um or you

[6:28:50] Trustee Rogers: can get your own staff to prepare bylaws for you there's a more than one example of those around

[6:28:56] Trustee Rogers: that's the way i understood the report so i think it would i think it provides pretty good information

[6:29:01] Trustee Rogers: and I agree with Trustee Critchley that model bylaws

[6:29:05] Trustee Rogers: are a nice shortcut and a nice to have

[6:29:08] Trustee Rogers: and perhaps we need to put it on our work plan

[6:29:11] Trustee Rogers: to have them develop those and fund that

[6:29:15] Trustee Rogers: but I'd like to get the report out at this stage.

[6:29:18] Trustee Luckham: Okay, thank you.

[6:29:20] Trustee Rogers: Any

[6:29:20] Trustee Luckham: other speakers on the motion?

[6:29:23] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Patrick and then Trustee Critchley.

[6:29:27] Trustee Patrick: Well, I support the release of this.

[6:29:29] Trustee Patrick: It's important for everyone to know that FETUS

[6:29:32] Trustee Patrick: is taking a very interesting approach

[6:29:33] Trustee Patrick: in preparing a discussion paper on the shoreline

[6:29:36] Trustee Patrick: and all of this is being wrapped.

[6:29:38] Trustee Patrick: It's being built on what happened at Keats

[6:29:39] Trustee Patrick: and it's a shoreline discussion paper

[6:29:42] Trustee Patrick: that's also being built with high level First Nations

[6:29:45] Trustee Patrick: and community conversations about the problem

[6:29:47] Trustee Patrick: and sort of defining the shoreline problem.

[6:29:49] Trustee Patrick: So this is sort of a work in progress

[6:29:52] Trustee Patrick: and it's going to be very interesting to see where it goes.

[6:29:55] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much for that, Patrick.

[6:29:58] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Critchley.

[6:30:00] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[6:30:04] Trustee Critchley: Yes, I guess I'm going to have to vote in favor of this because we need to move it along some way, somehow, make use of it.

[6:30:12] Trustee Critchley: But I'm very disappointed that it doesn't have the model bylaw in it.

[6:30:17] Trustee Critchley: And, you know, I would love to take up the suggestion by Trustee Rogers, you know, and the people who have formulated it in this way, that if there's a local trust committee that's interested, you know, let them know and they'll get going on.

[6:30:37] Trustee Critchley: Well, I would love that for Denman Island, you know, to review our shoreline protection. But the fact is that we have been plodding along trying to get projects done for the last couple of years and had no progress whatsoever.

[6:30:52] Trustee Critchley: And now we're in a process of being dedicated to finishing our farm plan implementation, which is now funded, and we'll use a consultant.

[6:31:04] Trustee Critchley: But that's a project that's been underway for something like seven years, so we have to finish that.

[6:31:09] Trustee Critchley: So I would love for Denman Island, yes, to be asking for this to be done, but just given the resources and our present focus, we can't do it.

[6:31:21] Trustee Critchley: So I see as being in a real bind, and I would ask that the Regional Planning Committee reconsider this approach and consider proceeding with a model bylaw in the absence of other local trust committees specifically requesting it.

[6:31:44] Trustee Critchley: That's my comment. Thank you.

[6:31:45] Trustee Critchley: thank

[6:31:45] Trustee Luckham: you um well i'm gonna go trustee fenton trustee johnson but i have a question for the

[6:31:53] Trustee Luckham: regional planning manager go ahead trustee fenton

[6:31:57] Trustee Fenton: yeah i just muted myself um okay so yeah so back

[6:32:02] Trustee Fenton: to this whole notion of some form of educational framework attached to this um because that's

[6:32:11] Trustee Fenton: really will be key to making this day-to-day practice

[6:32:14] Trustee Fenton: versus a project that now we need to go

[6:32:19] Trustee Fenton: and actually do something on our shoreline

[6:32:21] Trustee Fenton: and they'll read the document.

[6:32:23] Trustee Fenton: We have to be more proactive,

[6:32:26] Trustee Fenton: make it really user-friendly and engaging

[6:32:29] Trustee Fenton: so that there's reward and people are happy to participate in it

[6:32:38] Trustee Fenton: as opposed to just another regulation per se.

[6:32:43] Trustee Fenton: thank you okay

[6:32:45] Voice 9: uh peter johnson within about a year ago i asked david marler if he knew of any

[6:32:54] Voice 9: model bylaw that had ever been adopted by a local trust committee i don't remember his exact answer

[6:33:00] Voice 9: but it was basically he didn't know of any and i'm really glad to see that this report is is being

[6:33:07] Voice 9: given to local trust committees and they're being asked if anybody wants one we will consider

[6:33:13] Voice 9: Peter, developing a model by-law.

[6:33:16] Voice 9: If nobody wants one,

[6:33:17] Voice 9: we won't waste our time and money doing it.

[6:33:20] Voice 9: Thank you.

[6:33:21] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Peter.

[6:33:23] Trustee Luckham: And if you can both lower your hand,

[6:33:26] Trustee Luckham: my question for the acting regional planning manager

[6:33:30] Trustee Luckham: is that presuming that particularly in my interest

[6:33:34] Trustee Luckham: is on the shoreline protection one,

[6:33:36] Trustee Luckham: but on either of these by-laws,

[6:33:38] Trustee Luckham: if there's interest demonstrated by a number of LTCs,

[6:33:41] Trustee Luckham: presumably this would become part

[6:33:42] Trustee Luckham: part of the regional planning team's workflow rather than it being a local trust committee

[6:33:50] Trustee Luckham: developing a bylaw. Would that be correct? That's correct. If

[6:33:54] Voice 3: a number of local trust

[6:33:57] Voice 3: committees make a project where there's a similar issue or it's identical in terms of

[6:34:03] Voice 3: its approach, then those are projects that would likely be assigned to the regional planning group.

[6:34:11] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, because that gives me confidence that FETUS can accomplish some of its desires through that regional program.

[6:34:19] Trustee Luckham: So thank you for that. So is there a motion on the floor?

[6:34:25] Trustee Luckham: I don't believe so. Oh, there is a motion up on the screen and it's moved by Rogers and Wilberton and the CEO.

[6:34:32] Trustee Luckham: Do you have something to add? Well,

[6:34:33] Voice 12: I can't help but note.

[6:34:35] Voice 12: and i take us and i'm i'm listening to trustee brent trustee morrison um uh trustee fenton i

[6:34:43] Voice 12: trustee fenton in particular but also taking us back to the policy saving discussion and the whole

[6:34:49] Voice 12: notion of communications as we're moving to any the adoption of any regulatory instrument

[6:34:55] Voice 12: that it's either got to be a companion piece is a is a pure communications piece associated with

[6:35:05] Voice 12: battle or an engagement depending upon the level of um need and that at the allen's trust we have

[6:35:15] Voice 12: to more have the ability to send that out with every piece that goes out and we do have some

[6:35:23] Voice 12: resources that you've made decisions on over the last year around communications work and

[6:35:29] Voice 12: specifically planning engagement as opposed to purely trust area services engagement or

[6:35:34] Voice 12: policy statement so i'm

[6:35:37] Voice 11: just letting you know

[6:35:37] Voice 12: i'm hearing that that demonstrated need and we should

[6:35:43] Voice 12: get on top of this because if we're looking at the most efficient way to constantly amend 20 different

[6:35:49] Voice 12: ocps and underneath those the land use bylaws is going to have to have a communications element

[6:35:57] Voice 12: associated with those pieces so um i'm just trying to acknowledge the comments that are being

[6:36:03] Voice 12: being expressed thank

[6:36:04] Voice 15: you for that acknowledgement

[6:36:05] Trustee Luckham: all right then I'm not seeing any of the hands so

[6:36:11] Trustee Luckham: I'm going to call the vote on the motion that's on your screen to forward the shoreline protection to

[6:36:16] Trustee Luckham: local trust committees and going out and expounding for information all those in favor

[6:36:27] Trustee Luckham: right so I'm counting 19 in favor and I'll ask you to lower your hands

[6:36:32] Trustee Luckham: the

[6:36:38] Voice 32: lowering of hands with

[6:36:42] Trustee Luckham: one hand up remaining Peter Grove and okay so those opposed none opposed

[6:36:51] Trustee Luckham: so that carries thank you um is there a necessity to uh look at the third motion in an amended

[6:36:59] Trustee Luckham: manner given the decisions that we've made or we'll just uh leave this as it is for this time

[6:37:04] Trustee Luckham: time being. Certainly, LTCs can advance this work as they see fit. So, I'll just see if there's

[6:37:11] Trustee Luckham: anybody that wishes to advance any further work. Otherwise, we'll move on. So, I see Trustee

[6:37:18] Trustee Luckham: Beshaken,

[6:37:19] Voice 32: Chair of the Regional Finance Committee. You're muted.

[6:37:28] Trustee Busheikin: You'd think after almost two years

[6:37:30] Trustee Busheikin: of doing this, like, no. So, I would advance the third motion. You know, we've all had a look

[6:37:39] Trustee Busheikin: at both of the reports and my understanding is that this now just says to LTCs let us know if

[6:37:47] Trustee Busheikin: you would like to if you think your LTC would like to get this work done in the next foreseeable

[6:37:54] Trustee Busheikin: future and the sooner people can start thinking about that the better so and and then get that

[6:38:00] Trustee Busheikin: you know information back to RPC because things take time staff need to be found budgets need to

[6:38:06] Trustee Busheikin: to be found work needs to get done as as we see we have reports from march um so you know i would

[6:38:13] Trustee Busheikin: um i would move that third motion unless someone um or numerous people think it's really not

[6:38:20] Trustee Busheikin: strategically a good idea

[6:38:22] Trustee Luckham: well the best way to approach that is to move the motion and it'll

[6:38:24] Trustee Luckham: pass or fail okay

[6:38:26] Trustee Busheikin: i'm gonna move that motion i don't have it in front of me um it's on a different

[6:38:31] Trustee Busheikin: screen so just a minute on

[6:38:33] Voice 14: the screen coming up there you go thank

[6:38:35] Trustee Busheikin: you oh now i've just navigated

[6:38:37] Trustee Busheikin: somewhere else looking for it hilarious okay i move that trust council request local trust

[6:38:43] Trustee Busheikin: committees and bowen island municipality to advise the regional planning committee if they intend to

[6:38:48] Trustee Busheikin: undertake policy or regulatory amendments based on the recommendations in the um and i'm gonna

[6:38:55] Trustee Busheikin: well no uh in the residential floor area ratio model bylaw report or the shoreline protection

[6:39:02] Trustee Busheikin: model bylaw okay

[6:39:04] Trustee Luckham: so you move that as presented right yeah so is there a seconder uh trustee

[6:39:11] Trustee Luckham: wolverton is seconding the motion thank you um do you do you need to speak to it any further

[6:39:17] Trustee Luckham: laura no

[6:39:18] Trustee Busheikin: okay

[6:39:19] Trustee Luckham: and so speakers on the motion i see trustee brent trustee fast i'm

[6:39:28] Voice 5: not in favor of

[6:39:29] Voice 5: this motion i think you know it's not going to be well received um by many people looking at this

[6:39:35] Voice 5: that it's they're going to perceive it as being prescriptive and uh i think you know just the fact

[6:39:42] Voice 5: of this discussion happening will inform begin to inform uh trustees middleton and myself as to

[6:39:50] Voice 5: engaging engaging the community on whether this is of interest i just don't like the fact that

[6:39:57] Voice 5: it's being it's it's sounding very prescriptive and it feels to me like we're being pushed into

[6:40:03] Voice 5: it now i understand what uh trustee bouchakin is saying oh we can do it at our leisure but this

[6:40:09] Voice 5: doesn't feel like it's at my leisure or our leisure it it sends a message that you know just

[6:40:16] Voice 5: sorry but it it doesn't say that to me and it doesn't say that to people who are viewing this

[6:40:22] Voice 5: Thank you, Chair.

[6:40:29] Trustee Fast: I'm in support of this motion because I think we need new ways of doing things.

[6:40:35] Trustee Fast: Model bylaws haven't been used, and I am enjoying the Keats foreshore consultation,

[6:40:46] Trustee Fast: consultation the engagement around that and i see that i'm hearing that thetis has this discussion

[6:40:52] Trustee Fast: paper to me i'm looking forward to taking this um to the bowen island council municipal council

[6:40:58] Trustee Fast: and saying here are some ideas and themes um uh that we could look at and use as a beginning

[6:41:05] Trustee Fast: to discuss whether we're even going to consider this uh kind of project and um i uh i think

[6:41:13] Trustee Fast: i like the idea of trying new things and it maybe it's more like a an agile or an iterative approach

[6:41:21] Trustee Fast: to creating new products that could be used across um the region you test something and then you

[6:41:30] Trustee Fast: improve it or you learn from that and you come back with the next version i'm in favor thank you

[6:41:35] Trustee Luckham: thank you trustee patrick and then trustee kale i've

[6:41:40] Trustee Patrick: uh being chair of saturn island it's uh

[6:41:43] Trustee Patrick: their their their their independence is rubbing off on me um it's not i i had this discussion

[6:41:50] Trustee Patrick: when we had this at the the regional planning committee because that's how i had read it sort

[6:41:53] Trustee Patrick: of how uh trustee brent is initially you know how this is sounding it's like you have to report to

[6:41:59] Trustee Patrick: us if you're doing this that's how it sounded to me but the discussion the intent is not that

[6:42:06] Trustee Patrick: that's what this is about this is simply about you know trying to collect people to find if

[6:42:11] Trustee Patrick: If there's interest in looking at things a different way, it's perhaps clunky.

[6:42:17] Trustee Patrick: We've got the new regional planning team and other aspects and that we're still kind of, like I said, working through this to figure out how we collect the information.

[6:42:27] Trustee Patrick: I know if you remember, Laura Bushegan and I tried it at one of the last times we had a human interaction at a trust council meeting that we tried to collect people, get people to talk about it around the coffee hour.

[6:42:40] Trustee Patrick: found out you prefer coffee than talking about projects but we've got to find a way to you know

[6:42:45] Trustee Patrick: kind of collect that regional conversation of where there are synergies to to work together so

[6:42:52] Trustee Patrick: that's all

[6:42:54] Trustee Luckham: so my speaker list is growing here trustee kale wolverton we shaken and longer ice

[6:43:01] Trustee Luckham: yeah

[6:43:02] Voice 39: thank you chair uh we on the bowen housing committee are looking at this subject right now

[6:43:07] Voice 39: Now, and interestingly enough, on our housing committee, when it came to floor ratio areas, boy, you realize that you are getting into a complex subject.

[6:43:18] Voice 39: And I think we are making some advances on it suitable to, in our case, Bowen Island.

[6:43:25] Voice 39: I do not think this is a one size fits all T-shirt.

[6:43:29] Voice 39: I agree with Paul Brent that this seems quite dictatorial and aggressive.

[6:43:38] Voice 39: And frankly, I hope this doesn't get adopted because we look forward to working on this further and we will certainly be reporting back and working collaboratively.

[6:43:48] Voice 39: but that is the way for us to go and to get more information for our own community and feed that

[6:43:56] Voice 39: back which I thought is the way that trustees work here on Islands Trust and I don't see this

[6:44:03] Voice 39: particular motion helpful for that objective. Thank you Trustee Cahill. Trustee Wolverton.

[6:44:11] Voice 28: Okay I mean it is phrased in the form of a request this is not compelling and I think

[6:44:19] Voice 28: I think, you know how we present that to our community is, is that it's just that it's a request. And, you know, if your community doesn't want to be involved that that's fine.

[6:44:31] Voice 28: I mean, you know, I think we have a responsibility as as trustees to bring back these kinds of motions with the intent in which it was written. Thank you.

[6:44:44] Voice 28: Thank

[6:44:45] Trustee Luckham: you. There was some strange feedback going on there. Thank you for that, Trustee Wilmington. Trustee Boucherkin, Langer, Rice, Rogers.

[6:44:53] Trustee Luckham: again

[6:45:00] Voice 32: sorry um

[6:45:02] Trustee Busheikin: i would like like i actually would like to change the motion and i'd like to change

[6:45:09] Trustee Busheikin: request to invite and i i know that this whole question of um friendly amendments we i'm hearing

[6:45:17] Trustee Busheikin: that we tend to play too fast and loose with that so maybe i need to make an amendment to that um

[6:45:23] Trustee Busheikin: and just before i get into that like i just it's interesting to hear how this is being taken it's

[6:45:29] Trustee Busheikin: it's instructive. I, you know, it never felt to me as a peremptory, you know, demand or pressure

[6:45:38] Trustee Busheikin: or anything like that. So it's interesting to hear it comes across that way. And I think it's

[6:45:43] Trustee Busheikin: important that it, it doesn't, this is literally an invitation to, it's like saying, maybe we can

[6:45:48] Trustee Busheikin: help. We are supposed to, as a committee, do regional planning. That means that if there's

[6:45:53] Trustee Busheikin: planning that is of interest to enough members of the regional community, we could work on it

[6:46:04] Trustee Busheikin: together so that it is effective in their synergies and that we're collaborating. And

[6:46:11] Trustee Busheikin: if there isn't that interest, we won't do it. So it's not, and LTCs can do this work on their own

[6:46:21] Trustee Busheikin: with their own planner if they want so there's a tone I think that's coming across that I don't

[6:46:26] Trustee Busheikin: think was intended um so I would like to change request to invite can I do that as a friendly

[6:46:32] Trustee Busheikin: amendment should I put an amendment on the table I'm

[6:46:34] Trustee Luckham: going to ask you to make a motion to that

[6:46:36] Trustee Luckham: okay

[6:46:36] Trustee Busheikin: I move that uh the motion I don't know how to word this that the motion on the table

[6:46:45] Trustee Busheikin: be amended by changing the word request to invite.

[6:46:54] Trustee Luckham: Okay, do I have a seconder for that?

[6:46:56] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Wolverton seconded, thank you.

[6:46:58] Trustee Luckham: I'm not sure I keep picking up Trustee Wolverton

[6:47:01] Trustee Luckham: in the corner there, but thank you.

[6:47:03] Trustee Luckham: So that's moved and seconded.

[6:47:05] Trustee Luckham: And

[6:47:05] Trustee Busheikin: I spoke to it.

[6:47:06] Trustee Luckham: And you've spoken to it.

[6:47:07] Trustee Luckham: Is there any further need for this discussion

[6:47:09] Trustee Luckham: on the motion on the floor?

[6:47:11] Trustee Luckham: And I see Trustee Langerheist,

[6:47:13] Trustee Luckham: but perhaps you wanted to speak earlier

[6:47:15] Voice 37: it was earlier but yeah okay so then if you lower your

[6:47:22] Voice 37: hand

[6:47:22] Trustee Luckham: for the moment then and we'll come back to you if you need to speak to the motion once it's

[6:47:27] Trustee Luckham: amended or not so um is there any discussion on the amendment no so then i'll call for the vote

[6:47:35] Voice 32: all those in favor all

[6:47:45] Trustee Luckham: right so i think that's 18 in favor and so please lower your hands

[6:47:51] Trustee Luckham: any opposed none opposed that one opposed any further opposed one opposed so that still carries

[6:48:03] Trustee Luckham: you carries and thank you very much for for that amendment just to be shaken so now on the original

[6:48:11] Trustee Luckham: motion are there any final speakers and uh trustee lange rice did you wish to speak on that you did

[6:48:17] Trustee Luckham: have your hand up earlier uh

[6:48:19] Voice 37: yeah actually the reference the floor area uh floor area ratio

[6:48:24] Voice 37: model by the report we're not sending it out to uh the trust committees at this point in time

[6:48:31] Voice 37: i'm not sure why i kept in because it's going to potentially change and what are we referring

[6:48:38] Voice 37: what we have now or the amended version so yeah

[6:48:43] Trustee Luckham: uh well if

[6:48:44] Trustee Luckham: you question although obviously it's

[6:48:46] Trustee Luckham: your report and it's only an indication of interest i think um it may not change

[6:48:51] Trustee Luckham: substantially so

[6:48:52] Voice 37: we're so we're just referring the the report that's here now although we've asked it to go

[6:48:59] Voice 37: back and get amendments made to it so i don't

[6:49:03] Trustee Luckham: think we're i don't think we're referring anything

[6:49:05] Trustee Luckham: at this time uh with respect to that i'm just saying that you've seen it as a trust council

[6:49:11] Trustee Luckham: council member in the trust council report here,

[6:49:14] Trustee Luckham: but you'll have to determine how to manage that.

[6:49:17] Trustee Luckham: But I'm just going to keep moving and ask you

[6:49:20] Trustee Luckham: if there's any other speakers on the motion,

[6:49:24] Trustee Luckham: even though that's unclear.

[6:49:25] Trustee Luckham: So I'm going to call the vote on the motion

[6:49:27] Trustee Luckham: that was amended.

[6:49:29] Trustee Luckham: All those in favor?

[6:49:30] Trustee Luckham: All those in favor, it looks like 16.

[6:49:39] Trustee Luckham: And so therefore, please ask you to lower your hands.

[6:49:46] Trustee Luckham: And now I'm going to ask those opposed.

[6:49:48] Trustee Luckham: Those opposed, it's like four.

[6:49:55] Trustee Luckham: so thank you very much council that passes also all right 350 um we are completed the um

[6:50:04] Trustee Luckham: regional planning services section thank you robert kojima for stepping up and laura

[6:50:09] Trustee Luckham: beshaken for your work and the committee's work let's go to administrative services

[6:50:16] Trustee Luckham: and um i'm going to go sorry chats which i try to avoid reading just for the record um

[6:50:28] Trustee Luckham: Um, I'm going to go to a consent agenda items in administrative services.

[6:50:34] Trustee Luckham: And of course, uh, director mobs will assist us with the, uh, decision items when we get

[6:50:40] Trustee Luckham: there, but items 10.1, one and 10.1, two are here for, um, uh, quote, uh, advancing as

[6:50:50] Trustee Luckham: recommended in those items.

[6:50:52] Trustee Luckham: Is there anybody that wishes to speak to either of those two?

[6:50:57] Trustee Luckham: Not, let me move that out of the way.

[6:51:00] Trustee Luckham: No, not seeing any, then indeed the items at 10.1.1, 10.1.2 will adopt the recommendations

[6:51:08] Trustee Luckham: as presented in those items.

[6:51:10] Trustee Luckham: So this brings us to discussion items at 10.2, Director of Administrative Services Report.

[6:51:18] Trustee Luckham: And Director Mobs, a pleasure to see you.

[6:51:22] Trustee Luckham: And I'm going to ask you to present us the highlights of your report, and then we'll

[6:51:27] Trustee Luckham: go through the other decision items.

[6:51:30] Voice 24: Thanks, Mr. Chair. Nice to see you all, Council. So I won't go through everything in the Director's report, just a few highlights.

[6:51:38] Voice 24: One of the main highlights is under Section 2 in the financial section.

[6:51:42] Voice 24: So as stated, staff have successfully negotiated a working agreement with the Provincial Shared Services Procurement Team to have them on a regular and ongoing basis conduct our public procurement processes for us.

[6:51:56] Voice 24: So currently this arrangement comes to us at no cost which is excellent and the provincial team

[6:52:02] Voice 24: will continue to re-evaluate if that's appropriate based on the volumes of trust procurement

[6:52:07] Voice 24: as time marches on. So I was really pleased to negotiate this arrangement as of course it does

[6:52:13] Voice 24: create a small efficiency for the finance team so that we can focus on some other things and the

[6:52:18] Voice 24: hope is that we can find some more of these arrangements and draw on provincially available

[6:52:22] Voice 24: systems and processes and resources to generate even more efficiencies in our

[6:52:26] Voice 24: in our work employee services and human resources at section 3 of the report as

[6:52:32] Voice 24: you can see there continues to be lots of shuffles within staffing resources I

[6:52:37] Voice 24: won't go through all of the items there but they are noted so you can get to

[6:52:40] Voice 24: know our new staff members and of course that keeps us very busy and one thing to

[6:52:45] Voice 24: highlight in section 4 under information services is the completion of an update

[6:52:49] Voice 24: to our existing GIS software infrastructure so this project is largely complete. The purpose of

[6:52:56] Voice 24: the project was to align the trust's infrastructure with provincial infrastructures and that will

[6:53:01] Voice 24: allow for allow for a more streamlined integration of data which will better support the Conservancy

[6:53:06] Voice 24: staff members and the planners in their day-to-day work. Nothing else to highlight,

[6:53:11] Voice 24: I'll happily take questions. I think you're muted Chair Luckham.

[6:53:24] Trustee Luckham: sorry i don't have i have an excuse i don't have control of the button

[6:53:27] Trustee Luckham: lori decides when i talk or not thank you lori you're kind um so i don't see any speakers uh

[6:53:36] Trustee Luckham: that wish to have any questions so you've done an excellent job there as usual um julia and let us

[6:53:43] Trustee Luckham: move along to the statement of financial information request for decision and you want

[6:53:48] Trustee Luckham: to introduce that to us uh

[6:53:51] Voice 24: sure i'll be brief so this is the annual legislative reporting

[6:53:54] Voice 24: requirement that comes before council each year it's an associated financial report that provides

[6:54:00] Voice 24: some more detailed information with respect to the expenditures that are reflected in the annual

[6:54:04] Voice 24: financial statements that were just approved um after completion of our audit uh so the sophia

[6:54:10] Voice 24: report is prepared under the guidance of the financial information act and is due september

[6:54:14] Voice 24: 30th of every year so as soon as we've got council's approval at this meeting we'll be

[6:54:17] Voice 24: forwarding that on to the ministry. As it does every year, the SOFI contains three schedules,

[6:54:23] Voice 24: the schedule of trustee remuneration expenses on page 430, employee remuneration and expenses on

[6:54:29] Voice 24: page 431, as well as the list of vendors who were paid more than $25,000 in the fiscal year

[6:54:35] Voice 24: on page 433. So the format of this legislative report does not require us to provide information

[6:54:43] Voice 24: on what types of goods or services were provided by vendors that are listed in

[6:54:48] Voice 24: in that list but historically trustees have really appreciated that information

[6:54:51] Voice 24: and so on page 435 of the agenda package we've included an amended schedule which

[6:54:58] Voice 24: has the list of vendors the amounts they've been paid and also the goods and

[6:55:01] Voice 24: services that we procured from each of them one thing I will mention that's

[6:55:05] Voice 24: different in this year's report is how we present the reconciliation of

[6:55:11] Voice 24: of employee remuneration to the financial statements

[6:55:15] Voice 24: as well as the list of vendors paid $25,000 or more

[6:55:18] Voice 24: to the financial statements.

[6:55:19] Voice 24: Historically, we've provided a reconciliation

[6:55:21] Voice 24: in numerical format and this year we've provided

[6:55:24] Voice 24: a reconciliation in written format.

[6:55:26] Voice 24: Either format is acceptable under the guidance

[6:55:28] Voice 24: in the Financial Information Act.

[6:55:30] Voice 24: The way we presented it this year, slightly more efficient

[6:55:33] Voice 24: and of course we're looking for that

[6:55:35] Voice 24: as workloads are high this year.

[6:55:37] Voice 24: And I did do a survey of local government

[6:55:39] Voice 24: sophie reports online and i could see that um you know there were many local governments using the

[6:55:43] Voice 24: same reconciliation format so i was very comfortable moving us to that i don't think there's

[6:55:48] Voice 24: anything else i will report out there but again i can take questions brilliant

[6:55:53] Trustee Luckham: thank you i'll maybe

[6:55:54] Trustee Luckham: just turn to the chair of the financial planning committee peter grove um um if you have any remarks

[6:55:59] Trustee Luckham: otherwise um i don't see any questions popping up and that perhaps you would like to make that motion

[6:56:04] Trustee Grove: thank you i certainly would and thank you julia as always so i will move that the trust council

[6:56:10] Trustee Grove: approved the 2021 statement financial information as okay

[6:56:18] Trustee Luckham: thank you very much second by trustee

[6:56:21] Trustee Luckham: brent thank you any questions on the uh or any uh discussion on the motion none i'm going to call

[6:56:32] Trustee Luckham: for the vote all those in favor please raise your hands digital hand so that would be 22

[6:56:42] Trustee Luckham: two trustees and uh so please lower your hands any opposed none opposed that carries unanimously

[6:56:52] Trustee Luckham: thank you very much um so 10.2.3 is june 30th 2021 quarterly financial report request for

[6:57:02] Trustee Luckham: decision here also and we'll go back to director mobs uh

[6:57:07] Voice 24: thanks mr chair so overall at the end of

[6:57:10] Voice 24: quarter one, the Islands Trust has spent approximately 24% of its budget. So this is

[6:57:16] Voice 24: about where we'd expect to be at the end of first quarter. Of course, at the end of first quarter,

[6:57:20] Voice 24: we're 25% of the way through the year. So to have spent 24% of our budget is pretty much on target,

[6:57:25] Voice 24: I would say. Within that overall figure, there are a few outliers that are coming in at different

[6:57:31] Voice 24: percentages. And I'll briefly speak to those areas. And you can follow along at page 441,

[6:57:36] Voice 24: 1 if desired. So on the revenue side of things you'll see we've only brought in 2% of our

[6:57:41] Voice 24: approved budgeted revenues for the year at the end of quarter one and that's because as usual

[6:57:45] Voice 24: we receive our property tax revenues in bulk in quarter two so we'll see that number significantly

[6:57:50] Voice 24: increase at our next reporting. Council services is coming in at 23% of budget spent again very

[6:57:57] Voice 24: close to what we'd expect. Within that the main outlier that you'll see is under trust council

[6:58:02] Voice 24: which is only showing 16% spent and that's because the bulk of that budget

[6:58:06] Voice 24: is associated with in-person Trust Council meetings which of course are

[6:58:10] Voice 24: planned for the end of this fiscal year. Local

[6:58:14] Voice 24: Planning Services is also coming

[6:58:16] Voice 24: in at 24% of their budget spent pretty much on target. The biggest outlier there

[6:58:21] Voice 24: is in relation to project spending which is only at 12% of budget and that's

[6:58:25] Voice 24: because of what we usually see which is mainly that in the first quarter of the

[6:58:29] Voice 24: the year planning for projects is being undertaken and the actual spending will happen in later

[6:58:34] Voice 24: quarters of the year. Trust Conservancy is always our shining star. They are right at 25% of their

[6:58:40] Voice 24: budget spent. They seem to be on target very frequently. Their outlier relates to board

[6:58:46] Voice 24: spending, which is at 12%. And that's also related to planned meeting expenses for later on in the

[6:58:51] Voice 24: year when things are in person again. General administration spending is also at 25%. The

[6:58:57] Voice 24: significant outlier in there relates to computer and equipment spending and that's because we

[6:59:01] Voice 24: always purchase our refreshed computers in quarter one at the start of the year so that item is not a

[6:59:06] Voice 24: concern as we won't see additional spending there for the rest of the year. And I'll briefly look

[6:59:12] Voice 24: at the information that's presented by object which is the table found on page 438. So this

[6:59:19] Voice 24: is the same financial information that we've just reviewed but because it's presented slightly

[6:59:23] Voice 24: slightly differently, it can highlight different things for us. So one of the things I'll highlight

[6:59:27] Voice 24: is that our staff salaries is at 26% of budget spent at the end of the first quarter. So that's

[6:59:33] Voice 24: a very slight overspending, but for us at the trust, that's unusual. Typically at the end of

[6:59:38] Voice 24: every fiscal year, we see an underspending in staff salaries and benefits. So workloads are

[6:59:43] Voice 24: high this year. There's lots of project work that's being undertaken, lots of staff overtime

[6:59:47] Voice 24: being incurred. And so our salary spending is a little bit higher than is standard. So we're

[6:59:52] Voice 24: continuing to monitor that as we move through the year. There's some significant overspending

[6:59:58] Voice 24: in legal general costs.

[7:00:00] Voice 24: in at 39.8% and that's mainly because there's been lots of legal opinions sought on some of

[7:00:04] Voice 24: the projects we're doing as well as requests from LTCs to get legal opinions. We do have offsetting

[7:00:10] Voice 24: underspending in the other areas of legal but we'll continue to monitor that one as the year

[7:00:15] Voice 24: goes on as well. Travel and training also quite underspent at 11% that's mainly because of you

[7:00:21] Voice 24: know we're still not traveling that often and the way that we do business has changed and training

[7:00:26] Voice 24: expenses have been low as of course with high workloads staff and haven't had a

[7:00:31] Voice 24: lot of time to undertake training but again as I said earlier overall we're

[7:00:35] Voice 24: tracking really well against budget and at the end of quarter two we'll have

[7:00:38] Voice 24: some financial forecast to look at to see where we might land at the end of

[7:00:41] Voice 24: the year with that I'll turn it back to council thank

[7:00:45] Trustee Luckham: you very much so I'll ask

[7:00:48] Trustee Luckham: if the chair of planning committee has any remarks I

[7:00:53] Trustee Grove: have no remarks but I'm

[7:00:55] Trustee Grove: hearing no questions from anybody i will i will move that the trust council provide the june 30th

[7:01:00] Trustee Grove: 2021 financial report as presented thank

[7:01:04] Trustee Luckham: you very much do you have a seconder thank you um therefore

[7:01:11] Trustee Luckham: uh if there's any questions trustee then no maybe you were just getting ahead of the voting so uh

[7:01:17] Trustee Luckham: All those in favor.

[7:01:20] Trustee Luckham: I'm just going to go all those in favor.

[7:01:26] Trustee Luckham: 18, 19, 20, 21.

[7:01:28] Trustee Luckham: All right.

[7:01:30] Trustee Luckham: 20 and 22, actually.

[7:01:32] Trustee Luckham: So those hands down.

[7:01:35] Trustee Luckham: And are there any opposed?

[7:01:37] Trustee Luckham: I don't believe that there are.

[7:01:38] Trustee Luckham: So no, I'm opposed.

[7:01:41] Trustee Luckham: That carries unanimously.

[7:01:42] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[7:01:43] Trustee Luckham: And we did go a little faster.

[7:01:45] Trustee Luckham: Was there actually some questions there,

[7:01:48] Trustee Luckham: trustee allen on the financial information presented the

[7:01:53] Trustee Allen: quarterly report yeah hi is

[7:01:55] Trustee Allen: this where i can ask questions regarding the office facilities yes

[7:01:58] Voice 32: yeah

[7:02:00] Trustee Allen: so i'm just wondering

[7:02:00] Trustee Allen: what's going on with the northern office is um is it because like i'm not sure what you're looking

[7:02:07] Trustee Allen: at denial to move permanently or um is it okay

[7:02:10] Trustee Luckham: the cao is happy to address that question yeah

[7:02:13] Trustee Allen: i'm just uh is it staffing is because they're can't afford to live from gabriel yeah i'm just

[7:02:18] Trustee Allen: I'm just curious about what's going on there.

[7:02:19] Voice 12: So we do have that on the agenda tomorrow,

[7:02:23] Voice 12: trustee Allen for discussion and camera.

[7:02:25] Voice 12: It's an ongoing negotiation and we're happy to answer

[7:02:28] Voice 12: any and all questions there.

[7:02:29] Voice 12: And if any of those questions or queries

[7:02:33] Voice 12: end up being more for public purview,

[7:02:36] Voice 12: then you can simply rise and report all those.

[7:02:39] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[7:02:41] Trustee Luckham: Okay, thank you.

[7:02:42] Trustee Luckham: Any other questions?

[7:02:44] Trustee Luckham: No, okay, perfect.

[7:02:45] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much then.

[7:02:46] Trustee Luckham: So the final item here under Section 10 is 10.2.4, the Draft Budget Assumptions, Principles, and Timelines Briefing.

[7:02:56] Trustee Luckham: This is not a decision, but a briefing, and I'll turn it over to Director Mobs to introduce that.

[7:03:05] Voice 24: All right, so as usual, we are presenting to Trust Council the Draft Budget Assumptions and Principles at this meeting.

[7:03:12] Voice 24: So the first draft of the budget in its numerical form is currently being put together by staff or

[7:03:19] Voice 24: reviewed by financial planning committee at their next meeting in October. So financial planning

[7:03:23] Voice 24: committee has reviewed this document they've had a look at the assumptions and the principles that

[7:03:28] Voice 24: we'll be using to build the budget and it's here for council's review so that if there's any

[7:03:32] Voice 24: concerns or things that council would prefer to be changed that we can make those amendments before

[7:03:36] Voice 24: we actually dive into the building of the budget itself. So I'll walk us through mainly just the

[7:03:41] Voice 24: items that have significant change from previous years some items remain unchanged and don't need

[7:03:46] Voice 24: much review item number one right off the bat fees and sales we do need to look at that one

[7:03:51] Voice 24: you might remember in june at the june trust council meeting council amended their application

[7:03:56] Voice 24: processing services policy and within that there's a model fees bylaw so the model fees bylaw does

[7:04:02] Voice 24: change the the model fees for application services and so that needs to be incorporated when we're

[7:04:10] Voice 24: drafting the budget as there could be an impact on that revenue source. So it's a bit of a wild

[7:04:14] Voice 24: card at this point. There's a number of factors that we still don't know as we build this estimate.

[7:04:20] Voice 24: The first factor is which LTCs will actually adopt revised fees under this new model fees bylaw.

[7:04:26] Voice 24: And secondly, if LTCs do adopt new fees, at what level they will adopt the fees. The model fees

[7:04:33] Voice 24: bylaw does allow for a little bit of window, a wiggle room within that amount. And so at this

[7:04:38] Voice 24: point that information is unknown. So I've worked with the Director of Local Planning Services to

[7:04:43] Voice 24: come up with a way that we can estimate the fees revenues that we might see for next year.

[7:04:47] Voice 24: Our estimate is fairly conservative. We are assuming that all LTCs will adopt

[7:04:52] Voice 24: new fees under the New Model Fees By-law in time for next year's budget and we are making

[7:04:58] Voice 24: the assumption that all LTCs will adopt amounts at the maximum 20% below what's in the Model Fees

[7:05:05] Voice 24: bylaw. So we're happy to take feedback on that if council feels that that is an inappropriate way to

[7:05:10] Voice 24: estimate these figures but for now that's where it stands and there will be opportunities we move

[7:05:15] Voice 24: through the budget cycle to revisit these estimates as well. So grant funding will be

[7:05:26] Voice 24: included in the budget as it always is in accordance with accounting guidelines.

[7:05:31] Voice 24: So when we receive and spend grant money on eligible spending we'll recognize the revenue

[7:05:35] Voice 24: and the expenses at the same time and we'll incorporate those amounts into the

[7:05:39] Voice 24: budget as they become known. Property taxes, that's item number five. I will

[7:05:46] Voice 24: just mention that we are expecting some increased pressures on taxation in the

[7:05:49] Voice 24: coming budget year due to a number of factors. First we've reduced the amount

[7:05:53] Voice 24: that's sitting in the general revenue surplus fund and that means there may

[7:05:56] Voice 24: not be as much to draw from in that fund in order to fund the coming fiscal year

[7:06:01] Voice 24: budget. Historically the trust has relied on draws from that fund in order to

[7:06:05] Voice 24: balance the budget and there may not be available resources in that fund in the coming year which

[7:06:10] Voice 24: would put pressures on taxation. We also anticipate some increases in the operating budget. Of course

[7:06:16] Voice 24: we have our standard staff increases that happen. We're seeing some real estate increases happening

[7:06:21] Voice 24: as well and so we're expecting some operating budget increases and there may be project budget

[7:06:27] Voice 24: increases as well. So all of those things put some pressures on taxation. Nothing else of

[7:06:34] Voice 24: significance to note in the revenue section so I'll take us down to expenses

[7:06:38] Voice 24: notably item number 12 staffing levels at this point we don't have solid

[7:06:43] Voice 24: understanding of whether or not you know what types of staffing requests will be

[7:06:47] Voice 24: coming forward we are anticipating that there may be one or two and as those are

[7:06:52] Voice 24: decided on within the management team they'll be incorporated into the budget

[7:06:55] Voice 24: and of course we'll have accompanying funding requests that will go first to

[7:06:58] Voice 24: FPC and then come to Council for consideration our staffing salaries and

[7:07:04] Voice 24: benefits amount in totality continues to be governed by agreements outside of our control

[7:07:09] Voice 24: and so those amounts will be incorporated. Item number 15 speaks to office facilities and that's

[7:07:15] Voice 24: what Trustee Allen in particular I think was asking about and how the management team is

[7:07:20] Voice 24: currently exploring opportunities to share office space with the province in Nanaimo.

[7:07:25] Voice 24: So the Nanaimo office space has sold, there's a new owner and so it's created an opportunity for us

[7:07:31] Voice 24: us to re-look at that real estate space and how we want to manage the staff in the north.

[7:07:37] Voice 24: And as the CAO said, we'll have an update in tomorrow's in-camera session.

[7:07:42] Voice 24: Local planning services, item 16.

[7:07:45] Voice 24: There's a note there at the bottom, which I hope trustees saw, and hopefully this wasn't

[7:07:49] Voice 24: the first time you became aware of this, is that all OCP and LTC projects with estimated

[7:07:54] Voice 24: costs greater than $5,000, we're hoping to see funding requests for those coming forward

[7:07:59] Voice 24: to trust council for consideration and that way we can actually better plan and build into our

[7:08:05] Voice 24: budget what amounts might actually be needed you know historically there's been a trend of

[7:08:10] Voice 24: developing a lump sum budget which sometimes doesn't always it isn't always accurate and so

[7:08:17] Voice 24: this will allow us to better predict what might be needed in next year's budget. Item number 19

[7:08:23] Voice 24: reminds us that next fiscal year is an election year we always have fairly significant costs for

[7:08:29] Voice 24: the election. I think historical election costs were about $140,000 and so we're budgeting for

[7:08:35] Voice 24: that the next coming fiscal year with an element of inflation built in there. Not noted in the

[7:08:40] Voice 24: report but I should let you know usually we do purchase new laptops for the new council.

[7:08:46] Voice 24: I'm currently in conversation with the IS team around whether or not we could redeploy existing

[7:08:51] Voice 24: machines in an effort to save some cash or simply deploy new machines one year later,

[7:08:58] Voice 24: so delay the implementation of that if we need to find areas of spending and I'll be very upfront

[7:09:03] Voice 24: the IAS team is not super supportive of that idea they're very service oriented and acknowledge that

[7:09:09] Voice 24: using older machinery could pose some risks but that is in conversation and we'll update you with

[7:09:14] Voice 24: the budget in December. Item 20 general surplus again I've mentioned the minimum balance there

[7:09:20] Voice 24: is reduced and so there may be less funding to draw on in that pool. Item 23 speaks to the

[7:09:27] Voice 24: COVID-19 pandemic would be remiss not to at least acknowledge that there will be ongoing impacts

[7:09:32] Voice 24: to build into next year's budget and that's mainly around our hybrid meeting models that are likely

[7:09:39] Voice 24: to continue and also the fact that we have a more remote workforce which may have some changes in

[7:09:45] Voice 24: how we budget for things so I think that's plenty for me at this point but I will happily take

[7:09:50] Voice 24: take questions from Council.

[7:09:54] Trustee Luckham: Very good.

[7:09:55] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much.

[7:09:55] Trustee Luckham: I'll recognize Trustee Morrison has a question,

[7:10:00] Trustee Luckham: and followed by Trustee Langeres.

[7:10:04] Trustee Morrison: Thank you very much.

[7:10:06] Trustee Morrison: As usual, it's nice to see clear assumptions.

[7:10:09] Trustee Morrison: I have to say that after a year and a half,

[7:10:13] Trustee Morrison: I think it is, of nagging around the cost recovery for the model

[7:10:18] Trustee Morrison: fee bylaws and just wanting to see that,

[7:10:20] Trustee Morrison: I am ecstatic to see that as a as an assumption in the budget the question I

[7:10:27] Trustee Morrison: have though is related to have all LTC's had the model fee bylaws referred to

[7:10:33] Trustee Morrison: them for consideration as part of their agenda items to ensure that those things

[7:10:37] Trustee Morrison: are considered by LTC's

[7:10:39] Voice 14: I don't

[7:10:47] Voice 24: know the answer to that unfortunately I'd have to

[7:10:48] Voice 24: Normally, I'd refer it to Director Marler.

[7:10:51] Voice 24: And I'm happy to make a motion to make sure that that happens.

[7:10:55] Voice 11: Those are imminent.

[7:10:56] Voice 11: Pardon me?

[7:10:57] Voice 11: My understanding is those are imminent.

[7:10:59] Voice 11: And

[7:10:59] Voice 12: I think that's project

[7:11:01] Voice 11: number one.

[7:11:03] Trustee Luckham: Yeah.

[7:11:05] Trustee Luckham: I don't think

[7:11:05] Trustee Luckham: it's necessary to make a motion at this time.

[7:11:08] Trustee Morrison: Okay, because I just want to make sure that those things get into place,

[7:11:11] Trustee Morrison: so those assumptions can actually be real.

[7:11:13] Trustee Morrison: Thank you.

[7:11:14] Voice 12: Absolutely.

[7:11:15] Voice 12: We'll move those forthwith.

[7:11:19] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[7:11:20] Trustee Luckham: Any other questions, Trustee Longarice?

[7:11:24] Voice 37: Yeah, I was just curious, just trying to understand the $5,000 limit when you have to request

[7:11:32] Voice 37: a trust council for funding a project.

[7:11:36] Voice 37: Right now, we do our projects and we request funding.

[7:11:41] Voice 37: That's fine.

[7:11:41] Voice 37: When a new system comes into place, the regional planning team is taking things on, but it

[7:11:47] Voice 37: won't be for a while, as I understand it.

[7:11:50] Voice 37: will that well we didn't have to do a local request to for the money and then it gets taken

[7:11:57] Voice 37: up by the regional planning team or does the regional planning team if they select it then

[7:12:02] Voice 37: request the budgeting for it just curious about that it's an anticipated anticipated question but

[7:12:12] Trustee Luckham: so is the question clear and is there somebody in a position to answer that

[7:12:17] Trustee Luckham: I can speak

[7:12:22] Voice 24: to the the LTC project requests thank you

[7:12:25] Voice 32: so

[7:12:26] Voice 24: historically as I understand it

[7:12:29] Voice 24: before I was with the trust all LTC projects were brought forward to trust council with a funding

[7:12:34] Voice 24: business case and I think that was considered a bit onerous and so the model was shifted and

[7:12:41] Voice 24: instead there was a lump sum an estimate that was developed by staff with information that came from

[7:12:48] Voice 24: local trust committees to determine how much we might need in a budget and then

[7:12:52] Voice 24: throughout the year that budget is allocated to different projects what

[7:12:56] Voice 24: we've identified is that with this process is if there are larger dollar

[7:13:00] Voice 24: projects that come forward part way through the year that are then allocated

[7:13:04] Voice 24: it limits the resources that are available for other local trust

[7:13:07] Voice 24: committees who perhaps are seeking to do work later on in the fiscal year what it

[7:13:12] Voice 24: also does is removes the ability of Trust Council to actually tell a local

[7:13:17] Voice 24: trust committee no we don't want that project to be funded from the federation budget we think that

[7:13:23] Voice 24: should be a special property tax requisition because it is not a service that's provided to

[7:13:28] Voice 24: other local trust committees or it's an elevated level of service so we've brought back this

[7:13:33] Voice 24: component where projects over five thousand dollars need to come before council in december

[7:13:38] Voice 24: and that way trust council has the opportunity to assess whether or not they're comfortable

[7:13:42] Voice 24: funding that project from the general budget or whether or not they would like

[7:13:47] Voice 24: it to be a special property tax requisition and it also helps us to

[7:13:50] Voice 24: build a better estimate into the budget as to what might be needed for local

[7:13:54] Voice 24: trust committee projects in future years when it comes to regional level projects

[7:14:00] Voice 24: those are typically funded under regional planning committee funds and

[7:14:05] Voice 24: the regional planning committee brings forward the request for funding as part

[7:14:11] Voice 24: part of their budget development.

[7:14:14] Voice 24: So that's a slightly different process.

[7:14:17] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[7:14:18] Trustee Luckham: CAO Hodgson probably would like to-

[7:14:20] Voice 12: Well, thanks for the question,

[7:14:21] Voice 12: the opportunity to just elaborate a little bit longer.

[7:14:24] Voice 12: We simply, we have made changes to how we're doing work

[7:14:28] Voice 12: so that we can address long range planning more effectively.

[7:14:33] Voice 12: But it is a piece of work that's in reaction

[7:14:40] Voice 12: to many years of doing things a certain way.

[7:14:42] Voice 12: So, so I'm glad that that shift has occurred. But you've heard Director Marla and myself over the last year say there's a policy element associated with that. And so what's coming is policies that will help guide trust council in those financial decisions, whether or not it goes to regional planning committee, let's say you had a big, because the big challenge we're going to have is we're going to have a number of official community plans over the years.

[7:15:12] Voice 12: it you couldn't someone could make the argument that they have not been updated on a regular

[7:15:16] Voice 12: manner and of course there's a a large number of them per population so how do we sequentially

[7:15:24] Voice 12: address that and we are going to need some sort of policy framework to assist you in making the

[7:15:30] Voice 12: decisions to in a sequenced way um allocate funds for a given ltc um to address its work

[7:15:40] Voice 12: to have appropriate work with the regional planning committee but not too much and then so

[7:15:45] Voice 12: that uh you know the example uh trustee christie provided you know we don't have eight year long

[7:15:49] Voice 12: projects um they're on a tighter time frame and so that policy is coming and i thank you for the

[7:15:55] Voice 12: question and keep asking that one um that the reorganization of how we do this will be complete

[7:16:01] Voice 12: when that policy framework is also adopted and i understand these are discussions that are going on

[7:16:06] Voice 12: out of RPC as well.

[7:16:08] Voice 12: So thank you very much.

[7:16:10] Trustee Luckham: Okay, thank you.

[7:16:11] Trustee Luckham: So I see Trustee's fast hand up here

[7:16:14] Trustee Luckham: on the draft budget assumptions,

[7:16:16] Trustee Luckham: principles and timelines.

[7:16:17] Trustee Luckham: Over to you.

[7:16:21] Trustee Fast: Thank you, Chair.

[7:16:22] Trustee Fast: I just wanted to flag something

[7:16:24] Trustee Fast: that I heard at the Union of BC Municipalities

[7:16:27] Trustee Fast: meetings and sessions last week.

[7:16:29] Trustee Fast: And that is other municipalities

[7:16:32] Trustee Fast: insurance costs are going up,

[7:16:34] Trustee Fast: which I know you're aware of,

[7:16:36] Trustee Fast: director mobs but partly they're going up because of computer hacking that is happening to local

[7:16:46] Trustee Fast: governments are being targeted and then their access to their own data is held hostage anyway

[7:16:54] Trustee Fast: this happened at Whistler and what's it requires to keep your insurance costs down and Bowen Island

[7:17:01] Trustee Fast: municipalities just going finishing going through this uh is to upgrade to two-factor authentication

[7:17:08] Trustee Fast: so staff and and elected folks have to uh you know use a little button like you would on your phone

[7:17:14] Trustee Fast: say is this really you and um uh so that might impact uh whether you're recycling

[7:17:22] Trustee Fast: laptops or using newer ones that can use that kind of software so i just want to flag that thank you

[7:17:27] Trustee Fast: very

[7:17:29] Trustee Luckham: much just the best um not seeing any other questions that is just a briefing so we received

[7:17:36] Trustee Luckham: that for information um so thank you very much for everybody's input on that to clarify that

[7:17:42] Trustee Luckham: now where we've been ahead of our uh scheduled uh recess for the end of the day at five o'clock

[7:17:48] Trustee Luckham: according to our schedule and um if you have the patient's council i would like to entertain

[7:17:53] Trustee Luckham: paying the idea of going back to items 4.2.4 and possibly 4.2.5 depending upon your appetite for

[7:18:03] Trustee Luckham: debate um and if i'm not seeing any dissenters there then that's what we'll do so that's on

[7:18:09] Trustee Luckham: 4.2.4 is on page 62 of your agenda package from the first day and um carmen teal putting you on

[7:18:20] Trustee Luckham: the spot there you probably weren't expecting me to do this um to make uh uh introduce this uh rfd

[7:18:29] Voice 26: sure so the revised uh trust council rwm policy is pretty much a mirror of what council adopted

[7:18:38] Voice 26: for local trust committee rwm policy i think in 2015 or 2016 and similarly we pulled a lot

[7:18:47] Voice 26: of the procedural material out of the old policy and put that into a procedure like we did for

[7:18:55] Voice 26: local trust committees which has

[7:18:56] Voice 26: all the details of how you process an rwm so basically in the

[7:19:02] Voice 26: revised policy we include principles on the appropriate use of rwms and there's a section

[7:19:09] Voice 26: on issues where voting by rwm is restricted such as certain bylaw readings and we also included

[7:19:16] Voice 26: provision for trustees to propose that a consideration of an RWM be postponed until

[7:19:22] Voice 26: a regular meeting so that you can discuss and debate it, which you can't do with RWMs.

[7:19:30] Voice 26: A few things that we've included in the revised policy principles of giving all trustees notice

[7:19:35] Voice 26: of a resolution and ability to view background information on the subject. And if one trustee

[7:19:41] Voice 26: wishes to have background information then we found that out to all trustees so everybody has

[7:19:47] Voice 1: the

[7:19:47] Voice 26: same information. Criteria for when RWMs should and should not be used and basically

[7:19:54] Voice 26: again back to the point if you need discussion or debate then you shouldn't do it through RWM

[7:19:59] Voice 26: you should do it at a meeting and there's a legislative requirement for open and transparent

[7:20:06] Voice 26: meetings so unlike voting at an open public meeting voting by RWM doesn't allow for discussion

[7:20:12] Voice 26: and debate nor can members of the public observe any participation not really sure if i have to go

[7:20:23] Voice 26: into any more detail there is provision for a motion to postpone like i was just saying to

[7:20:28] Voice 26: regular meetings well

[7:20:31] Trustee Luckham: let's see if there's any questions then i'm presuming everybody has read

[7:20:34] Trustee Luckham: through those um so i'll just uh look for raised digital hands any questions on the revised policy

[7:20:41] Trustee Luckham: 2.2.3 at 4.2.4 on your agenda trustee alan hi

[7:20:47] Trustee Allen: i'm just wondering about the um the conduct of vote

[7:20:52] Trustee Allen: uh 3.1 so if if a trustee requests more information does that not mean they have

[7:20:59] Trustee Allen: to postpone the vote because there might be discussion or is that something else different

[7:21:05] Voice 26: um really we try and provide any background information as quickly as possible as you know

[7:21:12] Voice 26: as soon as we heard about it right so it shouldn't slow things down too much no

[7:21:17] Trustee Luckham: all right trustee

[7:21:19] Trustee Luckham: allen any other questions trustee johnston sorry

[7:21:26] Voice 9: um i'm unclear about this but it is somewhere it

[7:21:30] Voice 9: said that you should not discuss a vote with other trustees is that in this current version is that

[7:21:36] Voice 9: at the one that we still have.

[7:21:41] Voice 9: Because I don't understand that.

[7:21:43] Voice 9: I can see why it's not okay to discuss it with everyone,

[7:21:48] Voice 9: but certainly we should be able to talk about an issue

[7:21:52] Voice 9: with less than a quorum of trust council members.

[7:21:57] Voice 26: What we're saying with RWMs is there is no opportunity

[7:22:01] Voice 26: for discussion.

[7:22:02] Voice 26: It's not like being in a live meeting and having a debate.

[7:22:05] Voice 26: so the items that you do by RWM are pretty standard things that wouldn't require discussion

[7:22:12] Voice 26: normally and if they did you want to move it to a live meeting where you can have that open

[7:22:16] Voice 26: discussion.

[7:22:17] Voice 9: I'm talking about talking to another trustee or a couple of other trustees my fellow

[7:22:23] Voice 9: Liskety trustee or another one that I'm close to or or trust or think is wiser than me is that

[7:22:32] Voice 9: that forbidden or advised against?

[7:22:35] Voice 26: I just don't see that as the

[7:22:37] Trustee Luckham: nature of an RWM.

[7:22:39] Voice 15: Yeah, the

[7:22:39] Trustee Luckham: intent of an RWM,

[7:22:42] Trustee Luckham: I've always considered it to be administrative in nature

[7:22:46] Trustee Luckham: and should not require discussion.

[7:22:48] Trustee Luckham: If it requires a discussion, then it

[7:22:51] Trustee Luckham: needs to be in a regular meeting as a regular discussion item.

[7:22:56] Trustee Luckham: I

[7:22:56] Voice 9: understand that we can't discuss it as a trust council.

[7:23:00] Voice 9: am i not to it and maybe i'm remembering incorrectly maybe it's not in the proposed

[7:23:07] Voice 9: new policy can i discuss it with my partner can i discuss it with uh residents of liskiti an issue

[7:23:15] Voice 9: that's coming up those

[7:23:17] Voice 26: issues i think should be best done for transparency in a live meeting

[7:23:21] Voice 26: so everybody is privy to what the discussion is before decisions make what i'm hearing what i'm

[7:23:28] Voice 9: hearing now is that this is a one person one decision no discussion with anyone else correct

[7:23:35] Voice 26: that's more that's more or less the intent of it yes otherwise you do the business at a meeting

[7:23:41] Voice 26: i i think that's that's

[7:23:45] Voice 9: ludicrous okay that's

[7:23:48] Voice 9: you're entitled to that okay i my second question

[7:23:52] Voice 9: is is it also in the policy that one should reply all yes for

[7:23:58] Voice 26: transparency purposes when you're in

[7:24:00] Voice 26: in a live meeting you can see how everyone's voting so that's why we have that provision there

[7:24:05] Voice 26: and

[7:24:05] Voice 9: I know we're not in a live meeting and there'd be no discussion when I start to see

[7:24:12] Voice 9: trustees vote one way or another that's bound to have an influence on my vote that seems

[7:24:20] Voice 9: inconsistent I'll drop this but I think they're very important issues yeah I appreciate that

[7:24:27] Trustee Luckham: thank you are there any other questions on the um uh the policy um that we will be looking for

[7:24:34] Trustee Luckham: uh um a motion if uh council's interested um trustee critchley trustee morrison trustee brent

[7:24:45] Trustee Critchley: thank you um i just wanted to point out that the provision that trustee johnson was referring to

[7:24:54] Trustee Critchley: is in there. I think it's 3.1. I just lost my document, just disappeared off the screen,

[7:25:00] Trustee Critchley: but I think it's 3.1. And I think he raises a good point. You know, is there a good purpose

[7:25:08] Trustee Critchley: for prohibiting all discussion by all trustees of that? It seems to me excessive. And,

[7:25:18] Trustee Critchley: And, you know, it's not like there's a group that constitutes a quorum that's discussing business outside.

[7:25:28] Trustee Critchley: We are always free to be speaking to each other, even within meetings, privately.

[7:25:37] Trustee Critchley: There's no injunction against that, so far as I'm aware.

[7:25:42] Trustee Critchley: and so yeah I agree with Trustee Johnson this 3.1 should possibly be deleted from there

[7:25:52] Trustee Critchley: if there's others that favor that I will make a motion. 3

[7:25:58] Trustee Critchley: .1 is

[7:25:59] Voice 26: about providing everybody the

[7:26:01] Voice 26: same background material if requested. I

[7:26:04] Trustee Luckham: think you must be referring to something else 3.1 on page

[7:26:09] Trustee Luckham: Page two of the policy, which is on page 66.

[7:26:19] Trustee Critchley: Page 73, it's in front of us right now.

[7:26:26] Voice 15: Page 73,

[7:26:28] Voice 26: thank you.

[7:26:30] Voice 26: Okay, that is the procedures for this,

[7:26:33] Voice 26: which will be internal procedures.

[7:26:36] Voice 26: Just wanted to make one comment about having discussions

[7:26:39] Voice 26: about resolutions like this.

[7:26:41] Voice 26: the whole idea is that we want to be transparent to the public. And since the public doesn't get

[7:26:47] Voice 26: to see this process, we try and keep it really simple by voting on matters that don't require

[7:26:53] Voice 26: further discussion or debate. If you needed that further discussion or debate,

[7:26:58] Voice 26: then it's preferable to do it in a public forum where the public can see and hear the debate.

[7:27:04] Voice 26: That's the intent.

[7:27:08] Trustee Critchley: Yeah, I understand that. That is the intent, but I'm not

[7:27:12] Trustee Critchley: seeing the purpose behind it, in all honesty. It's a process that takes place in the absence

[7:27:20] Trustee Critchley: of the public. And to have a discussion with a colleague, incidentally, I've never seen the

[7:27:26] Trustee Critchley: reason to do that and have not done it. But, you know, if one trustee is concerned about that,

[7:27:34] Trustee Critchley: you know, an absolute prohibition that you shouldn't discuss it, then

[7:27:37] Trustee Critchley: i do not see the purpose for it well

[7:27:42] Trustee Luckham: okay that's uh that's that's fine um and everybody's entitled

[7:27:47] Trustee Luckham: to their point of view um without an amendment um we're going to continue on so i'm just going

[7:27:55] Trustee Luckham: to go back to my speakers list here i'm just thinking of this through at the same time

[7:27:59] Trustee Luckham: um because of course an rwm is is a tool to allow us to do something out extraordinary

[7:28:07] Trustee Luckham: extraordinary outside of the norm outside of discussion and it's essentially for i would

[7:28:13] Trustee Luckham: suggest things like adopting the minutes which if the minutes are fine the minutes are fine it

[7:28:17] Trustee Luckham: doesn't require a discussion so it's not like you're making land use decisions or other policy

[7:28:22] Trustee Luckham: decisions um that you would need to discuss it's when

[7:28:26] Voice 12: they have a meeting

[7:28:27] Trustee Luckham: yeah that you would have

[7:28:28] Trustee Luckham: normally in a meeting it's very administrative but anyway i'm hoping that's helpful i may be

[7:28:33] Trustee Luckham: confused it more than anybody else so trustee morrison and then i'm not sure if johnson your

[7:28:39] Trustee Luckham: hand is backed up or not but rogers is the first time speaker trustee morrison um

[7:28:50] Trustee Morrison: to the second

[7:28:52] Trustee Morrison: point that trustee johnson had um i was just locating it here it looks like it's on it's in

[7:28:58] Trustee Morrison: in the procedures section on page 75, item 4.3.3.4.

[7:29:08] Trustee Morrison: I agree with Trustee Johnson that having a reply

[7:29:13] Trustee Morrison: all email feature is very problematic

[7:29:15] Trustee Morrison: because you are being influenced by others voting.

[7:29:19] Trustee Morrison: And if the intent is to actually not discuss things

[7:29:22] Trustee Morrison: then not being influenced by others voting

[7:29:24] Trustee Morrison: is equally relevant.

[7:29:26] Trustee Morrison: relevant. So I would like that changed. So I make

[7:29:34] Voice 32: a motion to amend.

[7:29:35] Trustee Morrison: Yes. So I make a motion to

[7:29:37] Trustee Morrison: amend. And if somebody can fill in the actual trust policy, it's procedures for trust council

[7:29:45] Trustee Morrison: section 13 is that what I would reference it as

[7:29:48] Voice 32: procedure yeah item

[7:29:51] Trustee Morrison: 4.3.3.4

[7:29:53] Voice 33: um

[7:29:56] Trustee Morrison: and I would I would

[7:30:00] Trustee Morrison: say that trustees should use um yeah basically i think that it needs to be worded in some way that

[7:30:10] Trustee Morrison: um trustees votes are recorded individually and

[7:30:16] Voice 26: privately just so everyone knows this

[7:30:21] Voice 26: same provision applies to local trust committee rwms the wording is exactly the same so you'd

[7:30:27] Voice 26: have a change from trust council to ltcs but i think the simplest thing would just be to

[7:30:33] Voice 26: Yeah.

[7:30:38] Trustee Morrison: So go ahead and delete it then that would be also,

[7:30:42] Voice 5: I'll second that motion.

[7:30:43] Trustee Luckham: Okay, well let's get the motion up on the screen it seems fairly clear but I like you

[7:30:49] Trustee Luckham: know me I like to make sure that we know what we're going on.

[7:30:51] Trustee Luckham: So just waiting on Lori to get that ready for us.

[7:30:56] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[7:30:56] Trustee Morrison: And maybe if it's okay while she's getting it ready, I can just speak to it briefly.

[7:31:04] Trustee Morrison: So one of the things I think in doing this as a functional aspect with staff is actually for staff to be CC trustees or in some ways so that there's just no option to reply all would be what I would like to see.

[7:31:19] Trustee Luckham: Blind carbon copy. Yeah.

[7:31:24] Trustee Morrison: Sorry, I have children and I have to cook.

[7:31:28] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, that's good. Understood.

[7:31:30] Trustee Luckham: so here it comes up on the screen so is that your intention right there looks like that's correct

[7:31:44] Trustee Morrison: yes that looks right yeah

[7:31:46] Trustee Luckham: um so and that and the seconder is satisfied with that

[7:31:50] Trustee Luckham: so is there any uh so if you don't mind lowering your hands at this point

[7:31:54] Trustee Luckham: because now we're going to vote on an amendment thank you everybody trustee morrison thank you

[7:32:02] Trustee Luckham: if there's no discussion sorry

[7:32:04] Trustee Rogers: point of order is this is not the it's not policy 2.2.3 it's

[7:32:09] Trustee Rogers: the procedures that are attached this is one of the discussions we had at executive community

[7:32:14] Trustee Rogers: understand part of this is in the policy but part of it's in the procedures and it's the section in

[7:32:20] Trustee Rogers: the procedures that we're we're trying to amend section 13

[7:32:24] Trustee Luckham: is that correct yes

[7:32:26] Trustee Rogers: not not the policy

[7:32:27] Trustee Rogers: section, not the actual policy itself. Right.

[7:32:32] Trustee Morrison: Just to be clear, don't remove policy 2.2.3,

[7:32:35] Trustee Morrison: just say policy 2.2.3 section 13 procedures.

[7:32:40] Voice 26: Is that correct, Carmen? No, they're two separate

[7:32:43] Voice 26: documents. So Carmen, can you tell us what you want? That procedure 4.3.3.4 be deleted.

[7:32:50] Trustee Luckham: Period. Oh,

[7:32:52] Trustee Luckham: so there we go. It's as simple as that. That makes sense to me. Are we okay,

[7:32:58] Trustee Luckham: mover and seconder yeah

[7:33:01] Trustee Morrison: i'm not totally clear on how that's referencing anything in the world

[7:33:05] Trustee Morrison: say

[7:33:13] Voice 26: that the procedures for trust council section 13 rwm um section 4.3.3.4 be deleted

[7:33:21] Voice 26: yeah so

[7:33:22] Trustee Luckham: a little bit more of a descriptor there thank you

[7:33:24] Trustee Morrison: that's great thank you

[7:33:26] Trustee Morrison: and laurie i'm gonna say

[7:33:32] Trustee Luckham: laurie

[7:33:33] Trustee Fast: needs some help

[7:33:34] Trustee Luckham: there carmen the rwm

[7:33:36] Trustee Luckham: um as

[7:33:43] Voice 32: counsel section

[7:33:58] Voice 10: 4.3 yeah do you

[7:34:03] Trustee Luckham: want the word section in there yeah yeah

[7:34:07] Trustee Luckham: okay that seems a lot more clear for us and for members of the public reading the minutes later

[7:34:15] Trustee Luckham: hang

[7:34:16] Trustee Fast: on i see the word section twice and the number of the policy is not there that's okay

[7:34:22] Trustee Fast: Okay. Do we want to include the word policy?

[7:34:27] Voice 32: No.

[7:34:28] Voice 32: No.

[7:34:28] Trustee Fast: Okay.

[7:34:31] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[7:34:33] Trustee Luckham: We've earned seconder.

[7:34:35] Trustee Luckham: Right.

[7:34:35] Trustee Luckham: So I see a couple of hands up.

[7:34:37] Trustee Luckham: So this is discussion on the motion.

[7:34:41] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Longerice and Bushekin.

[7:34:44] Voice 37: Yeah. I just wanted to comment by deleting this section.

[7:34:47] Voice 37: We're just silent in here in the procedural bylaw.

[7:34:53] Voice 37: It, I'm not sure it really achieves much.

[7:34:55] Voice 37: It doesn't say you can't, it just says nothing.

[7:35:01] Voice 37: So it's a bit neutral in terms of what could happen.

[7:35:05] Voice 37: Somebody could say, well,

[7:35:07] Voice 37: it doesn't say I have to reply only to one individual.

[7:35:12] Voice 37: I know it's a little, it depends.

[7:35:14] Voice 37: I mean, there's a motion, the first email,

[7:35:18] Voice 37: which comes out asking for a mover and a seconder, right?

[7:35:22] Voice 37: This is a point in time.

[7:35:26] Voice 37: So it's going to come from the secretary, as I understand it?

[7:35:29] Voice 14: That's correct.

[7:35:30] Voice 37: So really, we don't.

[7:35:33] Voice 37: And the other policy part I like is that there's a follow-up when it goes out.

[7:35:39] Voice 37: If nothing is heard, staff will follow up on that within the timeline.

[7:35:45] Voice 37: So that's a safeguard to try to make sure that people do respond.

[7:35:51] Voice 37: So I know what's intended.

[7:35:54] Voice 37: I'm not sure this actually achieves it, clearly,

[7:35:59] Trustee Luckham: is my concern.

[7:36:02] Trustee Luckham: So it's moved and seconded.

[7:36:04] Trustee Luckham: Speakers on the motion, Trustee Boucherkin.

[7:36:08] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you.

[7:36:10] Trustee Busheikin: I mean, this isn't a hill I need to die on,

[7:36:14] Trustee Busheikin: but like I'm uneasy with this because in a live meeting,

[7:36:18] Trustee Busheikin: there is transparency, we can see who votes.

[7:36:21] Trustee Busheikin: Anyone can hold off on voting and look around the table

[7:36:27] Trustee Busheikin: and see whose hand is going up and vote accordingly

[7:36:29] Trustee Busheikin: if they feel they want to know how someone else is voting.

[7:36:32] Trustee Busheikin: Also, we just all know, and the public all knows how everyone votes.

[7:36:36] Trustee Busheikin: I mean, this isn't visible to the public,

[7:36:38] Trustee Busheikin: but I do believe that because an RWM is a sort of special privilege

[7:36:44] Trustee Busheikin: almost granted to the Islands Trust that isn't used many other places

[7:36:49] Trustee Busheikin: and needs to be used, I think, extra carefully

[7:36:52] Trustee Busheikin: because it can appear not transparent.

[7:36:55] Trustee Busheikin: um that we should make it as as transparent as possible and and in a regular public meeting

[7:37:03] Trustee Busheikin: i believe that there's a provision that you can call for a um secret vote or secret ballot whatever

[7:37:11] Trustee Busheikin: you want to call it but it isn't the norm so i don't see why it should be different for an rwm

[7:37:17] Trustee Busheikin: i don't think it matters that much because these are generally very procedural things like adopting

[7:37:22] Trustee Busheikin: minutes or adopting things that we've already sort of expected to adopt and that kind of thing

[7:37:29] Trustee Busheikin: and otherwise it wouldn't be an RWM but I just I'm not it it doesn't sit right with me so I just

[7:37:35] Trustee Busheikin: thought I would mention that yeah about it

[7:37:38] Trustee Luckham: just before we move along there the transparency piece

[7:37:42] Trustee Luckham: of this is in the reporting out because the RWM the votes are recorded and that would be a public

[7:37:48] Trustee Luckham: the document am i correct yes yes yeah

[7:37:51] Trustee Busheikin: i know i understand it's just a different voting procedure

[7:37:53] Trustee Busheikin: that's that becomes more different than than when we're in person if we don't see

[7:37:58] Trustee Luckham: it's a special

[7:37:59] Trustee Luckham: privilege actually to be able to make these resolutions without having a meeting um all

[7:38:05] Trustee Luckham: right so now any other speakers on the motion otherwise i'll call for the vote so trustee fast

[7:38:13] Trustee Fast: thank you i just wanted to say i'm in favor of this motion partly just because i don't need all

[7:38:17] Trustee Fast: those extra emails in my inbox and i think uh sometimes when there's a lot of emails coming in

[7:38:24] Trustee Fast: um i think there's new things and this will just reduce confusion who needs that that's just a

[7:38:31] Trustee Fast: practical thing yeah

[7:38:33] Trustee Luckham: thank you um any other discussion then i am going to call the vote

[7:38:38] Trustee Luckham: on the motion on the screen before you all those in favor in favor any voices on the phone no okay

[7:38:51] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so that's 18 in favor.

[7:38:54] Trustee Luckham: Lower your hands.

[7:38:55] Trustee Luckham: Any opposed?

[7:38:59] Trustee Luckham: So opposed.

[7:39:01] Trustee Luckham: We see two hands opposed.

[7:39:04] Trustee Luckham: So thank you, that carries.

[7:39:06] Trustee Luckham: So that's the amendment to the document.

[7:39:10] Trustee Luckham: Now we still have to deal with the decision

[7:39:17] Trustee Luckham: to adopt the revised policy 2.2.3.

[7:39:23] Trustee Luckham: Is there somebody that would like to make that motion

[7:39:26] Trustee Luckham: or are we still on discussion?

[7:39:28] Trustee Luckham: Peter Johnson.

[7:39:31] Voice 10: I do have one more issue.

[7:39:35] Voice 10: Yeah,

[7:39:39] Voice 32: you're muted, Peter.

[7:39:45] Voice 32: Still muted.

[7:39:49] Trustee Luckham: Your fates

[7:39:50] Trustee Luckham: are against, there you go.

[7:39:51] Voice 9: Okay, I was holding down my space bar,

[7:39:54] Voice 9: which sometimes does work to unmute me.

[7:39:57] Voice 9: The policy, when one or two trustees want,

[7:40:02] Voice 9: feel that we need a discussion on an issue,

[7:40:04] Voice 9: shouldn't proceed by RWM.

[7:40:06] Voice 9: as I understand the procedure now it calls for a vote on that presumably it would take at least

[7:40:13] Voice 9: 13 people 13 trustees neat feeling there should be a discussion before there could be a discussion

[7:40:21] Voice 9: before the issue was postponed and I don't think that's right I think it should take far fewer than

[7:40:27] Voice 9: 13 it

[7:40:29] Voice 26: would be a majority like any other decision it would be a majority that would decide yeah

[7:40:35] Voice 9: But if two trustees feel there should be a discussion,

[7:40:39] Voice 9: I think that that should be sufficient.

[7:40:43] Voice 9: That's my only point.

[7:40:44] Voice 9: I think that's the experience.

[7:40:45] Voice 9: You can't make a motion to postpone it.

[7:40:47] Trustee Luckham: Well, I think that the two trustees,

[7:40:49] Trustee Luckham: that's a good example.

[7:40:50] Trustee Luckham: Two trustees would advance a motion to postpone or not,

[7:40:54] Trustee Luckham: and then it would be up to council to decide.

[7:40:58] Trustee Luckham: And that's, unfortunately, that's the way that it goes.

[7:41:02] Trustee Luckham: Not at a meeting.

[7:41:04] Trustee Luckham: Yeah.

[7:41:04] Trustee Luckham: Yeah. No. Well, in this, in this particular case, it's an RWM.

[7:41:09] Trustee Luckham: Yeah.

[7:41:10] Voice 9: Would the decision to postpone would be at a, at a, by another RWM?

[7:41:16] Voice 26: Correct.

[7:41:17] Voice 9: A second one. A second year.

[7:41:19] Voice 26: Without

[7:41:19] Voice 9: discussion.

[7:41:20] Voice 9: That's correct.

[7:41:22] Trustee Critchley: Okay.

[7:41:25] Trustee Luckham: Ideally, if you needed to discuss it and other trustees thought there was

[7:41:29] Trustee Luckham: reason to want to discuss it, they would support you in that.

[7:41:35] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[7:41:35] Trustee Luckham: Okay. So any other discussion? I'm losing track of where I am. So I think we need a motion to advance adoption of policy 2.2.3 as amended. Or we need more discussion. Trustee Critchley?

[7:41:54] Trustee Luckham: me thank

[7:41:57] Trustee Critchley: you um further to my earlier comments and the comments of trustee johnson i'll make a

[7:42:04] Trustee Critchley: motion run it up the flagpole anyway um that the procedures for trust council uh section

[7:42:14] Trustee Critchley: resolutions without meeting uh section 3.1 be deleted that's a challenge

[7:42:26] Trustee Critchley: Okay,

[7:42:27] Trustee Luckham: so help us out here. You're actually on the policy 3.2.3 and in section three resolution

[7:42:37] Trustee Luckham: without meeting 3.1. No

[7:42:40] Trustee Rogers: procedures, Mr. Chair.

[7:42:43] Trustee Luckham: So in procedures 3.1, where it says trustees should

[7:42:49] Trustee Luckham: not discuss a section 13 RWM with other members of trust council, because the process takes place

[7:42:54] Trustee Luckham: outside of a properly called and constituted meeting your motion is to delete that correct

[7:43:02] Trustee Luckham: all right so you've moved it then i'm going to ask if there's a second there uh trustee longer

[7:43:09] Trustee Luckham: i just seconded the motion i'm uh honestly struggling whether the the procedurally

[7:43:31] Trustee Luckham: appropriate uh thing here maybe this should be returned to staff for consideration but um

[7:43:38] Trustee Luckham: Because I think having a discussion defeats the purpose of an RWM, which is an authority that we've been given by the province to be able to do, which I think the authority from the province implies there will be no discussion.

[7:43:52] Trustee Luckham: I see some nodding heads.

[7:43:54] Trustee Luckham: So I'm looking for some advice on staff.

[7:43:58] Trustee Luckham: Should we return this to staff for reconsideration?

[7:44:02] Trustee Luckham: sometimes how i don't want to be offending a provincial requirement

[7:44:09] Trustee Luckham: another

[7:44:11] Trustee Critchley: option could i suggest another option i'm

[7:44:16] Voice 15: sure yeah

[7:44:18] Trustee Critchley: so perhaps um uh it might be amended

[7:44:23] Trustee Critchley: then uh it might be less offensive to amend it so that it said that uh trustees should not discuss

[7:44:29] Trustee Critchley: of section 13 rwm with a quorum of other members of trust council would

[7:44:41] Voice 12: it be a value to find out

[7:44:42] Voice 12: why it would be beneficial to discuss an rwm with other trustees and like what would an example of

[7:44:50] Voice 12: that be and then get into the concern i mean thank you for being able to ask the question

[7:44:58] Voice 12: that one conversation with one trustee and then another conversation a separate conversation

[7:45:04] Voice 12: is is that two conversations or is that one um can you then have up to 13 one-on-one conversations

[7:45:12] Voice 12: around an rwm um or can you call all trustees and have one-on-one conversations around um this if

[7:45:21] Voice 12: you if you don't have some provision to make this you know when does this process become transparent

[7:45:26] Voice 12: or not a transparent process.

[7:45:28] Voice 12: I guess that's what problem is addressed.

[7:45:31] Trustee Critchley: What is the problem we're addressing, yeah.

[7:45:35] Trustee Critchley: Could I respond to this?

[7:45:37] Voice 15: Yes, please, yeah.

[7:45:40] Trustee Critchley: Yeah, thanks.

[7:45:41] Trustee Critchley: So just to give an example, and Chair, you gave an example

[7:45:45] Trustee Critchley: which you thought was perhaps the most routine of things,

[7:45:49] Trustee Critchley: which was the approval of minutes.

[7:45:51] Trustee Critchley: And what if in that process you have a concern that,

[7:45:56] Trustee Critchley: Well, I don't recall the minutes in that way, or there's something missing. Wouldn't it be an appropriate thing to discuss with a colleague and say, do you recall the resolution being thus and such, or do you recall something being left out?

[7:46:17] Trustee Critchley: to you know it just seems to me to be too restrictive to put this provision in there

[7:46:25] Trustee Critchley: without a clear a clear requirement to do so yeah

[7:46:30] Trustee Luckham: I certainly understand what you're saying but

[7:46:35] Trustee Luckham: again in that particular instance it should simply go back to a public meeting for the

[7:46:42] Trustee Luckham: adoption of those minutes where you can have that discussion in public where perhaps a member of the

[7:46:47] Trustee Luckham: the public may not agree with that what you said or review the video in the case of the modern era

[7:46:53] Trustee Luckham: where you can actually determine whether or not and then it becomes a question of whether or not

[7:46:57] Trustee Luckham: that was the intent of what was said in the heat of the moment um you know

[7:47:01] Trustee Critchley: so how do i get trustees

[7:47:04] Trustee Critchley: to uh agree to that so that it can be deferred and put to council i'm

[7:47:12] Voice 14: sorry don't understand

[7:47:14] Trustee Critchley: How could I carry that process forward

[7:47:20] Trustee Critchley: so that the question of approval of minutes

[7:47:23] Trustee Critchley: comes before trust counsel

[7:47:25] Trustee Critchley: if I'm forbidden from discussing the very topic with anybody?

[7:47:29] Trustee Critchley: Then

[7:47:29] Trustee Luckham: you would make another RWM to defer it to counsel.

[7:47:36] Trustee Luckham: Postpone until counsel.

[7:47:39] Trustee Critchley: Yeah, but how would I

[7:47:40] Trustee Critchley: convince colleagues

[7:47:41] Trustee Critchley: that they should vote in favor of that?

[7:47:45] Trustee Critchley: if i can't discuss it i

[7:47:47] Trustee Luckham: understand your dilemma yep um thank you

[7:47:51] Trustee Luckham: yeah and so you know i haven't

[7:47:53] Trustee Luckham: actually acknowledged the seconding of this yet but certainly i called for it i am inclined quite

[7:48:00] Trustee Luckham: honestly is that i think there's some missing information in terms of the the provincial

[7:48:08] Trustee Luckham: legislation that is provides us the authority to do conduct an rwm and i would like to have more

[7:48:14] Trustee Luckham: information to make this decision on approving this um work and i'm looking to carmen do you

[7:48:21] Trustee Luckham: think that that is appropriate in the legislative not sure

[7:48:26] Voice 26: we get more information from looking at

[7:48:28] Voice 26: the wording in the

[7:48:29] Voice 26: trust act really this is all in the spirit of transparency right

[7:48:34] Voice 26: it's the principle of doing business transparently in front of the public and since this isn't done

[7:48:40] Voice 26: down in front of the public.

[7:48:41] Voice 26: We try to make it as transparent as possible.

[7:48:45] Voice 26: Mr. Chair.

[7:48:46] Voice 14: Yes, sir.

[7:48:48] Voice 9: I don't believe the issue should be transparency.

[7:48:51] Voice 9: The issue should be, is this a meeting?

[7:48:53] Voice 9: And if two or three or up to 12 trustees

[7:48:58] Voice 9: are having a discussion of trust council,

[7:49:01] Voice 9: it does not constitute a meeting.

[7:49:04] Voice 9: If 13 do it or 14, it is a meeting,

[7:49:08] Voice 9: an improperly called meeting.

[7:49:09] Voice 9: so you know that's I think the issue the transparency comes at the end of it was you

[7:49:16] Voice 9: said that with the reporting out each vote is recorded individually how each trustee voted

[7:49:22] Voice 9: what time they voted so therefore

[7:49:26] Trustee Luckham: is what we're suggesting that the wording be changed to

[7:49:30] Trustee Luckham: not a discussion

[7:49:34] Voice 32: of quorum of council I think that fixes it right and

[7:49:42] Trustee Luckham: Carmen or

[7:49:43] Trustee Luckham: or the CAO looking for advice here

[7:49:47] Trustee Luckham: on how we should proceed here.

[7:49:50] Trustee Luckham: We've given you our best advice.

[7:49:52] Voice 12: We would recommend that you don't do this.

[7:49:54] Voice 12: Right.

[7:49:55] Voice 12: Okay.

[7:50:03] Trustee Luckham: There lies the dilemma.

[7:50:05] Trustee Luckham: I'm afraid I tend to agree with the staff on this one.

[7:50:11] Trustee Rogers: You have some hands up.

[7:50:13] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, I see there's lots of hands up.

[7:50:15] Trustee Luckham: So if we can continue to discuss this at 10 to 5,

[7:50:18] Trustee Luckham: but I think we're going to recess at five o'clock.

[7:50:21] Trustee Luckham: So Trustee Critchley, do you have anything more

[7:50:24] Trustee Luckham: that you would like to share?

[7:50:26] Trustee Luckham: Otherwise we'll go to the hands

[7:50:28] Trustee Luckham: that have perhaps some other advice here.

[7:50:33] Trustee Critchley: No, I'd like to.

[7:50:34] Trustee Critchley: Okay, Trustee Langerheis.

[7:50:37] Voice 37: Yeah, actually I was going to suggest the same thing

[7:50:40] Voice 37: that Trustee Critchley suggested,

[7:50:43] Voice 37: which is including a reference to the quorum.

[7:50:46] Voice 37: Cause that's really the issue

[7:50:48] Voice 37: is whether it's a quorum discussion or not.

[7:50:52] Voice 37: Right,

[7:50:53] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Rogers.

[7:50:56] Trustee Rogers: Mr. Chair, I actually tend to agree with you

[7:51:00] Trustee Rogers: that I think this needs to go back and I'll be frank.

[7:51:03] Trustee Rogers: I think I tend to agree with Trustee Critchley.

[7:51:05] Trustee Rogers: However, I would like to get some advice

[7:51:08] Trustee Rogers: as to whether this somehow offends our authority

[7:51:12] Trustee Rogers: of what a resolution without meeting is.

[7:51:14] Trustee Rogers: Because I'm not sure that Trustee Johnston

[7:51:23] Trustee Rogers: discussing a particular motion with Trustee Critchley

[7:51:27] Trustee Rogers: is somehow inappropriate.

[7:51:29] Trustee Rogers: But perhaps there is some guidance

[7:51:32] Trustee Rogers: about what an RWM should is intended to be

[7:51:35] Trustee Rogers: that would help that.

[7:51:36] Trustee Rogers: So I'd move that this matter be referred to senior staff

[7:51:40] Trustee Rogers: for advice on whether our 3.1,

[7:51:45] Trustee Rogers: sorry, deleting 3.1 offends the principle

[7:51:50] Trustee Rogers: the principle of an a resolution without meeting deleting 3.1 okay

[7:52:05] Trustee Luckham: so this matter should probably

[7:52:06] Trustee Luckham: be specific to uh policy 2.2.3 clarity it's

[7:52:15] Trustee Rogers: not the policy it's the procedure sir

[7:52:17] Trustee Luckham: the procedures then whatever section that is procedures of policy 2.2.3 is that correct

[7:52:23] Trustee Luckham: Okay, yeah.

[7:52:27] Trustee Luckham: Council,

[7:52:28] Voice 33: I don't want to

[7:52:28] Trustee Luckham: offend anybody here,

[7:52:29] Trustee Luckham: but I'm just going to ask,

[7:52:32] Trustee Luckham: that seems like some reasonable advice.

[7:52:35] Trustee Luckham: It's not like we have to change this today

[7:52:38] Trustee Luckham: and we can have more information

[7:52:40] Trustee Luckham: and it may help us sleep better at night.

[7:52:44] Trustee Luckham: And so I'm going to look for a seconder on this motion.

[7:52:49] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Wolverton, thank you again.

[7:52:51] Trustee Luckham: um that you wish to speak to it any further trustee rogers i do not

[7:52:56] Trustee Luckham: is there any discussion

[7:52:57] Trustee Luckham: on this motion now that's on the floor trustee tritchley fast longer ice alan no

[7:53:05] Trustee Critchley: not for me

[7:53:06] Trustee Critchley: thank

[7:53:07] Trustee Luckham: you i trust you fast i'm

[7:53:09] Trustee Fast: in support of this motion um to refer to senior staff because i've

[7:53:14] Trustee Fast: been uh looking at um the ombudsman's report about open meetings and i'm reading things like

[7:53:23] Trustee Fast: a vote of any sort indicates that a gathering is in fact a meeting the heart of the matter anyway

[7:53:28] Trustee Fast: with electronic meetings and the rules changing i can see that some people might prefer to do an rwm

[7:53:35] Trustee Fast: by zoom instead of email i i mean there's new technologies changing all the time i think we

[7:53:40] Trustee Fast: should refer this to uh uh staff to see what the repercussions are uh and uh that uh so i'm gonna

[7:53:47] Trustee Fast: vote favor thank you thank you trustee longer ice

[7:53:50] Voice 37: uh just a question about the motion that's

[7:53:53] Voice 37: already at the first motion that's already on the table that's been moved and seconded

[7:53:59] Voice 37: and this seems to override that yeah

[7:54:01] Trustee Rogers: well i'm moving that the motion be referred to

[7:54:05] Trustee Rogers: i mean it says this matter okay what i mean is that that's my motion to refer yeah

[7:54:13] Trustee Luckham: i think that

[7:54:14] Trustee Luckham: procedurally um um that um this would be uh deferred uh is probably the correct

[7:54:25] Trustee Luckham: motion here i see common looking it up so if that you know i was not necessarily sure that

[7:54:33] Trustee Luckham: i had acknowledged the seconding of the motion but i see it's written there that's moved and

[7:54:37] Trustee Luckham: seconded by chris and longer ice and so then this motion that's now on the table would be to defer

[7:54:42] Trustee Luckham: this decision well

[7:54:49] Trustee Rogers: i'm looking at elimina and it says it's a motion to refer so there you go okay

[7:54:54] Trustee Luckham: yeah so refer oh so that this so the most so then the matter again so it comes to this matter

[7:55:01] Trustee Luckham: the

[7:55:02] Trustee Rogers: motion should be motion yeah

[7:55:04] Trustee Luckham: thank you okay thank you so that's the intent here uh

[7:55:15] Trustee Luckham: trustee longer ice and so that's what's going to happen to that previous motion

[7:55:20] Trustee Luckham: motion if this is voted in favor now help me out here Carmen is this debatable I don't believe so

[7:55:27] Trustee Luckham: uh

[7:55:28] Voice 26: it is debatable

[7:55:30] Trustee Luckham: and it is amendable okay and

[7:55:32] Trustee Luckham: amendable so therefore on the motion to refer

[7:55:37] Trustee Luckham: um is there further discussion trustee Allen trustee Morrison sorry for making a mess of

[7:55:44] Trustee Luckham: this but I want to be sure um

[7:55:46] Trustee Allen: yeah I'm confused here because from what I got from listening to

[7:55:50] Trustee Allen: Carmen she says well this is this is all about RWM there's nothing more to say about it so I'm

[7:55:56] Trustee Allen: not sure what we're going to actually get back from CU staff on this at all.

[7:56:01] Trustee Luckham: Clarity I think

[7:56:03] Trustee Luckham: with respect to the legislation that provides us the opportunity to have an RWM.

[7:56:10] Trustee Allen: Well can I hear

[7:56:11] Trustee Allen: what carmen can i hear her respond yes

[7:56:13] Trustee Luckham: i'm not sure

[7:56:15] Voice 12: what i'm responding to concerning i think

[7:56:16] Voice 12: uh maybe i can assist i just

[7:56:18] Trustee Allen: want to know what exactly information you're going to kind of you

[7:56:21] Trustee Allen: guys are going to come back with that's all i

[7:56:24] Voice 32: mean not exact information

[7:56:25] Trustee Allen: um requesting the rwm right

[7:56:28] Trustee Allen: and this is the way it is yeah can

[7:56:30] Trustee Luckham: you let the cao answer trustee allen yeah

[7:56:32] Trustee Allen: sorry i just haven't

[7:56:33] Trustee Allen: finished my point

[7:56:37] Voice 12: ceo uh we would obviously you can't tell out of all these different policies

[7:56:43] Voice 12: is what will take the interest of trust council um obviously this issue could um get a little bit

[7:56:49] Voice 12: more review this particular policy um or this particular clause in this policy so we go to the

[7:56:55] Voice 12: best practices associated with this and we see um around open meetings and see if there's any

[7:57:01] Voice 12: um elements that we prepared to bear that we could bring to bear we'd probably contact the ministry

[7:57:08] Voice 12: and see if they have an opinion associated with it.

[7:57:11] Voice 12: I can't say we have fundamental new information,

[7:57:14] Voice 12: but it might be able to get something

[7:57:18] Voice 12: that will further your deliberations.

[7:57:21] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, and for me personally,

[7:57:23] Trustee Luckham: I would like to see the wording in the act that enables us

[7:57:26] Trustee Luckham: and that is not in front of me today.

[7:57:30] Trustee Luckham: So Trustee Morrison on the motion.

[7:57:33] Trustee Morrison: Thank you.

[7:57:34] Trustee Morrison: I'm actually against this motion

[7:57:35] Trustee Morrison: motion because I believe that we have the information in front of us that we need

[7:57:43] Trustee Morrison: with context to our understanding of how we run meetings, what quorum looks like in a meeting,

[7:57:48] Trustee Morrison: what constitutes a meeting if there isn't a meeting, like how the RWM procedure works. So

[7:57:55] Trustee Morrison: I feel confident to, I would amend the other motion, but I just want to move on with this.

[7:58:01] Trustee Morrison: I don't want to spend our precious time doing this we're only talking about things related to

[7:58:06] Trustee Morrison: scheduling generally right

[7:58:08] Trustee Luckham: um so thank you for that so then um if this motion is defeated then

[7:58:14] Trustee Luckham: we would go back to the original motion on the table is there anybody else's wishes to speak

[7:58:18] Trustee Luckham: to the motion to refer no then I'll call the vote on the motion to refer

[7:58:23] Voice 32: all those in favor

[7:58:33] Trustee Luckham: this is in favor of the motion to refer looks like 11 or 12 including myself well no it's in

[7:58:41] Trustee Luckham: the numbers going up here 13 so 14 including myself and so now i'm going to ask you to lower

[7:58:46] Trustee Luckham: your hands i think that this will carry so all

[7:58:52] Voice 32: those opposed all those

[7:59:01] Trustee Luckham: opposed any voices on

[7:59:02] Trustee Luckham: the phone so that's seven opposed so the motion to refer has carried so thank you very much council

[7:59:08] Trustee Luckham: Council. And at 4.59, I think that expires our time slot for today for the debate. And I thank

[7:59:15] Trustee Luckham: you for all the debate. And as the CEO has said, it's interesting to reflect on what catches the

[7:59:22] Trustee Luckham: imagination of council. So let's recess. I'll remind you that Dan is having his

[7:59:30] Trustee Luckham: social session at 5.30, I believe, and look forward to seeing some of you there. And otherwise,

[7:59:37] Trustee Luckham: we'll see you tomorrow morning back here at nine o'clock we'll be starting off with a closed meeting

[7:59:41] Trustee Luckham: and just

[7:59:42] Trustee Rogers: to be clear uh of course the senior staff are all welcome to join us if for a bit

[7:59:48] Trustee Rogers: or all or some or say hello i'll see you then 5 30 hopefully many of you can make it

[7:59:53] Trustee Luckham: thank you dan

[7:59:54] Trustee Luckham: thank you everybody have a great

[7:59:56] Voice 32: evening good night bye