South Pender Island Local Trust Committee community information meeting, February 4, 2022

[0:00:01] Trustee Patrick: Good morning, everyone, for joining us. We'll be starting momentarily. We're just waiting for one more person to arrive on.

[0:00:13] Voice 2: She did give notice that she is on call today, so there could be a good chance that she may not be able to make the meeting due to other reasons.

[0:00:24] Voice 2: So we are recording, and

[0:00:26] Voice 2: we can do our best to take very good notes.

[0:00:31] Trustee Patrick: Capture the resolutions when they're

[0:00:33] Trustee Patrick: made.

[0:00:35] Trustee Patrick: Okay, then trustees, are you prepared to kick off?

[0:00:43] Trustee Patrick: I couldn't hear you very well, Steve.

[0:00:47] Voice 7: Yep, I'm ready to go.

[0:00:48] Trustee Patrick: Okay, there you are.

[0:00:49] Voice 7: Better volume.

[0:00:50] Voice 7: Yeah,

[0:00:50] Trustee Patrick: much better, thank you.

[0:00:51] Trustee Patrick: I just want to make sure we had a good sound check there.

[0:00:53] Trustee Patrick: Thank you.

[0:00:54] Trustee Patrick: Okay, well, good morning, everyone.

[0:00:56] Trustee Patrick: I'd like to call this meeting

[0:00:58] Trustee Patrick: meeting of the South Pender Local Trust Committee to order. This meeting is being recorded and

[0:01:03] Trustee Patrick: live streamed. Always open our meetings by acknowledging how fortunate we are to be able

[0:01:09] Trustee Patrick: to gather in the traditional unceded territories of the Coast Salish people and today all across

[0:01:14] Trustee Patrick: that territory of the Coast Salish people. I'm Laura Patrick, elected here on Salt Spring and

[0:01:20] Trustee Patrick: chair of the Local Trust Committee. I'm joined today by Trustee Cameron Thorne. Good morning,

[0:01:25] Trustee Patrick: meeting camera and trustee Steve Wright together we make up your South Pender local trust committee

[0:01:30] Trustee Patrick: this meeting is an official forum for your local trust committee to make decisions about land use

[0:01:35] Trustee Patrick: planning matters and discuss relevant business it's also a place of employment despite the fact

[0:01:41] Trustee Patrick: that many of our staff may be coming from even their own homes they have the right to a safe

[0:01:46] Trustee Patrick: and respectful workplace we're always grateful for having these electronic meetings sorry that

[0:01:51] Trustee Patrick: that we have to have this electronic meeting.

[0:01:53] Trustee Patrick: I can tell you, I'd much rather be in South Pender

[0:01:56] Trustee Patrick: this morning with you, but due to this current wave,

[0:02:02] Trustee Patrick: this is a method that we can use

[0:02:04] Trustee Patrick: and we're grateful to be able to use this,

[0:02:08] Trustee Patrick: but it is electronic and we could have difficulties

[0:02:11] Trustee Patrick: and I apologize in advance and we'll work as quickly

[0:02:14] Trustee Patrick: as we can to overcome any technical challenges

[0:02:16] Trustee Patrick: that might arrive.

[0:02:19] Trustee Patrick: I will go over the town hall and how you can interact with us in a few moments. But first, I'd like to introduce some of the staff that are joining us today. We have Robert Kojima, our regional planning manager. Good morning, Robert.

[0:02:31] Trustee Patrick: Robert. We have Phil Testamal, a planner with the Islands Trust. And we have Kim Stockville,

[0:02:37] Trustee Patrick: a planner with the Islands Trust. And behind the scenes, we have Robin. Sorry, Robin. What's your

[0:02:47] Trustee Patrick: last name? I'm Elchak. Did

[0:02:49] Voice 12: I get it right?

[0:02:49] Trustee Patrick: Oh, good. I went off my memory, which is not a good

[0:02:52] Trustee Patrick: thing to do with names. So I apologize. So thank you, Robin, for being in the background to help

[0:02:57] Trustee Patrick: us and we hope to have Shannon here shortly to be doing our minute taking but the meeting is

[0:03:04] Trustee Patrick: being recorded and we will capture those resolutions if she's not able to join us

[0:03:10] Trustee Patrick: she's very prepared to work off the recording and the minutes will be produced okay so that brings

[0:03:17] Trustee Patrick: us do we have an agenda before us trustees are there any changes that need to be made to the

[0:03:25] Trustee Patrick: the agenda additions or no

[0:03:30] Voice 7: i don't think so if they come up we'll rattle your cage but i think

[0:03:34] Voice 7: we got everything okay

[0:03:36] Trustee Patrick: trustee thorn same with you

[0:03:39] Trustee Patrick: so can we approve then the agenda through

[0:03:42] Trustee Patrick: general consent

[0:03:42] Voice 13: excellent

[0:03:43] Trustee Patrick: okay well that brings us then to our um reports who would like to go

[0:03:50] Trustee Patrick: first

[0:03:51] Voice 11: um i

[0:03:52] Voice 11: mean probably i don't know steve maybe you would be saying some of the same things but

[0:03:59] Voice 11: i guess in terms of just sort of broader reports um i think maybe the theme is transportation woes

[0:04:07] Voice 11: um we um you know whether it's the ferries or whether it's the dip as we call it here on

[0:04:14] Voice 11: south pender there's been some challenges with um with the mobility um you know the the ease

[0:04:20] Voice 11: of mobility here on the island um uh uh i travel frequently from vancouver to um to pender on what

[0:04:29] Voice 11: is route nine um and um that ferry and i guess it seems like things are perhaps going back to

[0:04:36] Voice 11: a normal schedule but for a while there there was um a loss of sailings between the between uh

[0:04:45] Voice 11: basically the afternoon evening sellers didn't didn't exist for a period of time and

[0:04:49] Voice 11: there was talk that it was going to continue further and uh some people said it was related

[0:04:55] Voice 11: to covid some people said it was something beyond that we can all speculate about that i did write

[0:05:01] Voice 11: to the premier's office and i wrote to the minister of transportation at the request for a number of

[0:05:06] Voice 11: residents here on the island expressing concerns about the impacts that that would have not only

[0:05:11] Voice 11: for route nine but also if everybody was forced to to go from vancouver or to washington to pender

[0:05:19] Voice 11: and had to go through Schwartz Bay there would be a domino or ripple effect in my view where

[0:05:25] Voice 11: people that were trying to the people that otherwise take that route from Schwartz to

[0:05:30] Voice 11: Pender would find that there would be a lot more competition for space on the ferry so

[0:05:34] Voice 11: and of course the fact that there's no reservations on that ferry makes it even more

[0:05:38] Voice 11: of a challenge so anyhow I have heard that the ferry schedule is now being reinstated and

[0:05:45] Voice 11: Hopefully that's the end of it, but just wanted to report on that. And then the other item, and Steve may have something to add on this one too, but independently of each other, we've both been trying to follow and get information on what is going on with the dip.

[0:06:02] Voice 11: As people know, after that big rainfall in mid-November, there was weight restrictions on the dip and there was signalized, you know, I guess the first signals ever on our island.

[0:06:15] Voice 11: Hopefully they're just a temporary thing, but that's created some real problems for people.

[0:06:19] Voice 11: Just even the programming of the signals has created some problems and we're seeing people frustrated, understandably, with increasing the lineups of people trying to cross through that area.

[0:06:29] Voice 11: you that's another thing that that i know in my conversations i've spoken to the ministry of

[0:06:34] Voice 11: transportation about whether they can do anything particularly as the weather dries out and the

[0:06:39] Voice 11: weight restrictions aren't quite what they were initially as to whether there's an ability to

[0:06:43] Voice 11: change the programming so that more cars can pass through it at other than the one car at a time

[0:06:49] Voice 11: because you know as we get into the warmer weather and the tourists return we could have you know

[0:06:53] Voice 11: half an hour 45 minute lineups on either side of that spot so that's one thing the other thing i'm

[0:06:58] Voice 11: happy to report is i did talk to parks canada and uh because of it on the dips proximity to

[0:07:05] Voice 11: national park and the fact that it seems like the only feasible way to to um have a lasting

[0:07:12] Voice 11: solution for that area the road is to try and shift the road further away from the from the

[0:07:17] Voice 11: from the shoreline and into the bank which uh happily it sounds as though parks canada seems

[0:07:23] Voice 11: it seems to believe that that's a logical solution.

[0:07:27] Voice 11: And there's maybe at this point,

[0:07:30] Voice 11: it's an MOU of some sort going on between Parks Canada

[0:07:33] Voice 11: and the Transportation,

[0:07:35] Voice 11: Ministry of Transportation to allow

[0:07:37] Voice 11: for an eventual land exchange to allow that to happen.

[0:07:42] Voice 11: Not sure what the latest is on that.

[0:07:43] Voice 11: And I do know that there's ongoing drilling.

[0:07:46] Voice 11: I think people have seen notices about power going out.

[0:07:48] Voice 11: I think there's more drilling going on next week.

[0:07:50] Voice 11: And we're still waiting to find out ultimately what,

[0:07:53] Voice 11: what the design is and when actual construction will start, which I think at the very earliest,

[0:08:00] Voice 11: what I'm hearing from talking to MOT is it probably wouldn't be until September or October

[0:08:05] Voice 11: of this year. So I realize the inconvenience for all of us, and we're doing what we can to try and

[0:08:13] Voice 11: make sure that MOT is aware and sensitive as they work through things that this is impacting people

[0:08:18] Voice 11: and, you know, respecting that they're doing what they can to fix it, but wanting to make sure that

[0:08:23] Voice 11: that we find a timely solution to this so uh steve maybe

[0:08:27] Voice 12: you have something more to add

[0:08:30] Voice 12: you're on you're on mute much better thanks

[0:08:34] Voice 7: i'm i'm much happier having you deal with multi and

[0:08:38] Voice 7: bc ferries i really don't want to get involved in those things the only thing i will correct you on

[0:08:43] Voice 7: is that power outage two-day power outage is on the 15th and 16th which is the following week not

[0:08:48] Voice 7: next week and uh it'll be out from 7 a.m to 5 right yeah and that is definitely related to the

[0:08:55] Voice 7: they're going to be doing more drilling and and testing there okay that's it anything else you

[0:09:03] Trustee Patrick: wish to report no

[0:09:05] Voice 7: i i think this meeting will do whatever we need okay well i'm

[0:09:12] Trustee Patrick: happy to give my

[0:09:12] Trustee Patrick: report uh uh there is uh it's budget season for islands trust and there is a preliminary budget

[0:09:21] Trustee Patrick: that's out for public consultation now and that is open until february 6th if you go to our

[0:09:27] Trustee Patrick: website. You can find the link and the information on the budget. The policy statement, which is also

[0:09:38] Trustee Patrick: a Trust Council initiative, there will be engagement getting kicked off. I keep saying

[0:09:45] Trustee Patrick: soon, I believe it's very soon, that there will be information coming on how you can participate in

[0:09:52] Trustee Patrick: that. The best way for you not to miss any of this engagement that's coming, whether it's here for

[0:09:59] Trustee Patrick: South Pender or for the work that we do at Trust Council, is to subscribe to the Islands Trust

[0:10:05] Trustee Patrick: website. There's a choice of items that you can say what you'd like to get information on. Press

[0:10:10] Trustee Patrick: releases is one of those things that would bring your attention to these public engagement

[0:10:14] Trustee Patrick: activities. And you can also select the South Pender on anything that comes out here on South

[0:10:20] Trustee Patrick: pender um that way you won't miss any um any opportunity to engage and i'm sure um you know

[0:10:27] Trustee Patrick: your trustees as well will do as much as they can to get your attention drawn when these

[0:10:31] Trustee Patrick: opportunities um come up um and then we'll have the trust council meeting which is where we would

[0:10:38] Trustee Patrick: um finalize the the budget for next fiscal year and um that's going to be march 8th through 10th

[0:10:48] Trustee Patrick: and that is coming up all right with that it is your turn to talk to us the there is an application

[0:11:02] Trustee Patrick: on our agenda today and the applicant will have an opportunity to speak during that time so the

[0:11:07] Trustee Patrick: applicant does not have to talk to us at this moment but this is your time to ask us any

[0:11:12] Trustee Patrick: questions or comments that you might have on our meeting that we have before us today or other

[0:11:17] Trustee Patrick: matters that you'd like to talk to us about um please direct your comments to us your your your

[0:11:23] Trustee Patrick: trustees um uh speak about issues not individuals and as i always know you are on south pender you

[0:11:30] Trustee Patrick: will be clear concise and respectful and with that it's your turn and um if you raise your hand

[0:11:37] Trustee Patrick: which should be down at the center of the screen if you had joined us via the live stream link if

[0:11:43] Trustee Patrick: If you're just live streaming us, we will not be able to communicate with you.

[0:11:47] Trustee Patrick: You'll need to switch over to the attend button that was at the website when you came in.

[0:11:53] Trustee Patrick: So if you are on live stream, you've got time to switch while we initiate this.

[0:11:59] Trustee Patrick: And Robin, if you can help me, I see that we have Donna Spaulding's hand up.

[0:12:06] Trustee Patrick: Good morning, Donna.

[0:12:09] Voice 3: Morning, Chair Patrick.

[0:12:12] Voice 3: Excuse me.

[0:12:13] Voice 3: I didn't think I was going to be first.

[0:12:15] Voice 3: I thought there'd be a huge lineup in front of me. Just a couple of comments. First, my first

[0:12:22] Voice 3: comment is, you know, I found it very difficult to wade through a 171-page agenda, as I'm sure you

[0:12:31] Voice 3: did, with a week's notice. I know that, you know, your staff are extremely busy, but I would

[0:12:41] Voice 3: encourage um you know the trustees to work with staff to have those agendas out and the

[0:12:48] Voice 3: attachments and various bits of information um you know in the hope with with more more time for

[0:12:55] Voice 3: review by by the people who live on pender um my second comment would be that um and i'm going from

[0:13:02] Voice 3: memory here because i've left my papers somewhere else there is a um a point um in the stvr

[0:13:09] Voice 3: conversation about staff having sent out a mail out to everyone at the direction of the trustees

[0:13:16] Voice 3: requesting information on STVRs. I've never received that mail out, so I don't know what

[0:13:22] Voice 3: the status is, but I just thought that I would bring that up. And with regard to the bylaw that

[0:13:29] Voice 3: is in front of you today, I think there are many things in that bylaw that we have not had a

[0:13:36] Voice 3: a fulsome discussion on, you know, and I would point directly to the idea that setbacks are

[0:13:43] Voice 3: envisioned to be changed on the sidewalk lines. I've been very busy, as you all have, and I'm sure

[0:13:50] Voice 3: that that is possibly a conversation that we've had, but I don't recall increasing those setbacks

[0:13:57] Voice 3: by doubling them. And certainly, given where we are in the amount of construction that has

[0:14:07] Voice 3: already taken place, and people have, you know, their buildings in place on Pender, I think we're

[0:14:14] Voice 3: going to suffer a huge issue with non-compliance if, you know, if this is not worded properly and

[0:14:21] Voice 3: not considered properly. I understand about the, you know, the idea of a further setback from the

[0:14:28] Voice 3: shoreline, you know, but again, I think that these things, you know, and some of the others within

[0:14:34] Voice 3: this bylaw have not had the fulsome conversation with the community, and I would encourage you

[0:14:42] Voice 3: that, you know, I know we have some challenges with Omicron, but those incidences are dropping,

[0:14:49] Voice 3: And I think it's time for us to, you know, have some really good public information meetings and sit down as a community with our trustees and talk about them.

[0:15:01] Voice 3: And, you know, I'm not looking to debate these issues or really question you.

[0:15:07] Voice 3: I'm just encouraging you that I think that these things are really important.

[0:15:11] Voice 3: important. I get that hydro is doing, you know, what we're working on this dip thing, but no power

[0:15:20] Voice 3: for two days in a row. This is, this is going to just be really hard for a lot of people.

[0:15:28] Voice 3: Trustee Wright, you work at home. I don't know, you know, many of us have alternative sources of

[0:15:34] Voice 3: power but this is this is going to challenge a lot of us um you know next week so um i hope we get

[0:15:42] Voice 3: that done and i hope we don't have to go through this much longer but two days in a row is going

[0:15:47] Voice 3: to be a challenge for a lot of people i think it's unfair and um you know a week's notice um

[0:15:53] Voice 3: yeah i think we could have done a little better on that too thank you very much for letting me

[0:15:59] Voice 3: to bring these topics up thank

[0:16:01] Voice 12: you donna just

[0:16:02] Voice 11: yeah and i totally agree with you donna i know i just

[0:16:05] Voice 11: like you i got the the email and the computerized phone call yesterday i think it was um not that

[0:16:13] Voice 11: this makes it any less um i guess uh inconvenient it looks to me from reading the email that i

[0:16:21] Voice 11: i received um that it's two segments of 10 hours each day so again not saying it's better than uh

[0:16:31] Voice 11: not saying that that's great but i don't uh i don't know if it's a duration of 48 hours so at

[0:16:36] Voice 11: least if people are able to you know recharge things and you know the septic and the water

[0:16:42] Voice 11: supplies and all that stuff the things that we all think about again

[0:16:45] Voice 3: trustee thorn it's it's it's

[0:16:47] Voice 3: from seven o'clock in the morning until five o'clock in the evening the time that we would

[0:16:50] Voice 3: would all be at work during the whole day for two days in a row yeah

[0:16:56] Voice 11: no i i'm with you i'm i i'm

[0:16:57] Voice 11: with you i i don't think i'm traction bc hydrant i hear your point yeah

[0:17:03] Trustee Patrick: thank you all right thank

[0:17:05] Trustee Patrick: you very much donna anyone else that would like to uh talk to us today my goodness we have a quiet

[0:17:15] Trustee Patrick: drop up here comes some here come the hands up uh we have a gordy gordy if you take yourself off

[0:17:24] Trustee Patrick: mute hello okay

[0:17:25] Voice 9: thank you um good morning and uh thanks for hearing me i recently sent you a letter

[0:17:32] Voice 9: so i'm not going to worry with all the details again hopefully you'll have a chance to review it

[0:17:37] Voice 9: but um primarily as may not be a surprise to you uh objecting to the setbacks increasing such as

[0:17:48] Voice 9: they are i really wonder if you've read uh looked at my uh graphs you see the impact that it does

[0:17:58] Voice 9: have on a person's ability to to build on the lots and of course it without a change on the

[0:18:08] Voice 9: setbacks increasing to 20 then you bring that whole legal non-conforming thing back into place

[0:18:14] Voice 9: again so i'm really just think that really they should stay the way they are we've done fairly

[0:18:21] Voice 9: well with that and there's a lot of things in there that don't quite make sense to me where

[0:18:27] Voice 9: accessory buildings could stay at 10 but the houses can't so just not clear and not reasonable

[0:18:36] Voice 9: i don't think and with respect to the house sizes i have tried to demonstrate to you in that letter

[0:18:43] Voice 9: are kind of even the existing um maximum house sizes that are in current today i assume we're

[0:18:55] Voice 9: done with dartboard engineering or something i don't know how they could come up with 700 square

[0:19:02] Voice 9: feet 1100 square feet and all this i'm referring to is on the lot sizes you know twice the lot

[0:19:09] Voice 9: lot sizes and which we have four or I guess five categories of different various lot sizes

[0:19:18] Voice 9: and there's no consistent increase in maximum dwelling sizes so again hopefully my

[0:19:25] Voice 9: my letters of November 4th and recently would give you some cause to think about this

[0:19:35] Voice 9: in your desire to re further reduce the house sizes maximum dwelling sizes so

[0:19:41] Voice 9: and just in your conversation about bc hydro these two outages are solely to deal with the

[0:19:52] Voice 9: dip is that my understanding or they are actually upgrading infrastructure i

[0:19:57] Voice 11: think it's to deal with

[0:19:58] Voice 11: the depth as i as i've

[0:19:59] Voice 9: done it okay all right well thank you thank

[0:20:04] Trustee Patrick: you gordy next is uh rebecca

[0:20:15] Voice 12: good morning hello good

[0:20:16] Voice 4: morning um i would like to uh speak specifically on the uh tup application

[0:20:22] Voice 4: for an stvr on castle road i have written to you and i i hope that you will consider my remarks um

[0:20:30] Voice 4: but today I wanted to talk about I had a conversation with our local STV owner and

[0:20:40] Voice 4: she had a couple of interesting points the first of which they do have a place in our community

[0:20:47] Voice 4: they allow visitors who might not have the resources to be able to afford our local resorts

[0:20:55] Voice 4: access to this beautiful island which we are privileged to live upon however she had some

[0:21:01] Voice 4: other interesting caveats in that basically three. Primarily she stressed that on-site

[0:21:10] Voice 4: oversight is critical. There's no way to monitor or gauge the activities of the visitor without

[0:21:20] Voice 4: being 24-7 located on the property, which will not be the case with this STVR. A second

[0:21:31] Voice 4: The second issue which she brought up was that even if you provide notice to visitors and have, in fact, a frank discussion with visitors, the phrase conserve water doesn't really come into play.

[0:21:50] Voice 4: People are creatures of habit, and those messages probably don't make it into their conscious activities during their visit time.

[0:22:00] Voice 4: um she says that uh typically with three people or more the water pump which they can hear up at

[0:22:11] Voice 4: their house is constantly running um so that's an important consideration which i think rises above

[0:22:19] Voice 4: the use of a normal family living in a dwelling full-time because they don't appreciate our local

[0:22:26] Voice 4: environmental issues and uh so those are two critical things that i think are lacking in

[0:22:34] Voice 4: this current tough application and the third is the number of guests this is a very small cottage

[0:22:41] Voice 4: it's a one room with a bathroom basically open concept and their point of view that's

[0:22:49] Voice 4: the stvr owners is that three guests is a party um and so consequently um during their learning

[0:22:58] Voice 4: curve they have reduced the occupation to two only um otherwise you have noise complaints

[0:23:06] Voice 4: you have way too many guests visiting the visitors on site and uh and it leads to uh

[0:23:17] Voice 4: complaints from their neighbors so essentially i would if you don't um i would like to see those

[0:23:25] Voice 4: restrictions added to the top if it's not um denied outright is that you restrict the use

[0:23:33] Voice 4: to two people only that um some sort of water conservation methods are added to it such as a

[0:23:43] Voice 4: cistern um i think the staff report addressed a water meter and uh water reports and finally

[0:23:52] Voice 4: um i don't know how to address this issue but i think that definitely we need on-site oversight

[0:23:59] Voice 4: here and that's not the case i know there is an on-island person to be contacted but it will fall

[0:24:05] Voice 4: solely upon the neighbors to become harpies and to hound the by-law enforcement which i also

[0:24:12] Voice 4: understand is critically understaffed. There was a Toronto Star article May 16th

[0:24:18] Voice 4: 2021 which said that of the five STVRs on Gabriola there are currently 13

[0:24:26] Voice 4: open files directed primarily to complaints against the STVRs and that

[0:24:32] Voice 4: there are only three people that monitor the bylaw enforcement and they

[0:24:41] Voice 4: They have an on average over 300 open files.

[0:24:44] Voice 4: They're based on Salt Spring and in Nanaimo.

[0:24:49] Voice 4: And so I really question, everyone says,

[0:24:53] Voice 4: well, if it gets past and if there are any complaints,

[0:24:56] Voice 4: it'll always get overturned.

[0:24:57] Voice 4: But I envisioned that perhaps our complaints here

[0:25:00] Voice 4: on South Pender might not be addressed in a timely fashion

[0:25:05] Voice 4: because of the overburden by law enforcement system.

[0:25:10] Voice 4: system. And thank you. That's all I had to say today. All right. Thank you. Trustee Thorne?

[0:25:17] Voice 11: Yeah, point of order. Just full disclosure, I am intending to recuse myself from this item when

[0:25:25] Voice 11: it's proper consideration given the proximity of where I live in terms of proximity to the

[0:25:33] Voice 11: applicant's property. And so I'm just wondering if it's possible, Chair, that whether people that

[0:25:39] Voice 11: wish to speak on this whether it's possible to speak perhaps at the beginning of when that item

[0:25:45] Voice 11: comes up or otherwise you know i feel like perhaps i should be abstaining myself from the meeting from

[0:25:52] Voice 11: this point forward so i just i'm

[0:25:56] Trustee Patrick: gonna i'm just gonna look to staff because i mean this is the

[0:25:58] Trustee Patrick: time to hear and i'm gonna look to staff for advice yeah

[0:26:04] Voice 5: trustee thorne if you're gonna recuse

[0:26:05] Voice 5: yourself from when the application comes up you should probably also step out of this portion

[0:26:10] Voice 5: portion of the of the town hall and we can we can message you to come back

[0:26:14] Voice 11: in where where and

[0:26:15] Voice 11: that's fine i'm happy to do that because i mean you know somebody else wants let's say if there's

[0:26:19] Voice 11: another speaker and they want to talk about raptor nest or something obviously i will be

[0:26:23] Voice 11: i mean i guess in a perfect world people would speak to the agenda item at the time that item

[0:26:28] Voice 11: came up but maybe that's not how we're set up um and i guess also um i mean i looked at the minutes

[0:26:35] Voice 11: from last time I don't have any comments so if I missed that that's fine too because I think we're

[0:26:40] Voice 11: going to approve the minutes before they we get into the TUP application.

[0:26:43] Voice 5: What the chair could

[0:26:44] Voice 5: potentially do is just ask people who want to speak on the TUP to stick up their hands speak

[0:26:49] Voice 5: to that or anyone or alternatively anyone who doesn't want to speak on the TUP could stick up

[0:26:54] Voice 5: their hands and then Trustee Thorne you could turn your camera and mic off audio off and then

[0:27:00] Voice 5: and people could speak on the TUP.

[0:27:04] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, I'll look to the trustees.

[0:27:05] Trustee Patrick: How would you best like to proceed?

[0:27:07] Trustee Patrick: What would work for you?

[0:27:08] Voice 7: I think

[0:27:08] Voice 7: it would be a lot easier

[0:27:09] Voice 7: if people just spoke to the TUP

[0:27:11] Voice 7: at the time the TUP comes up on the agenda.

[0:27:13] Voice 7: We've got a number of items to deal with

[0:27:15] Voice 7: and it makes more sense than having CAM pop in

[0:27:19] Voice 7: and pop up all the time.

[0:27:20] Trustee Patrick: The only thing is, is it's nice to have some space

[0:27:24] Trustee Patrick: between what you hear now and the chance for us to process

[0:27:28] Trustee Patrick: as we then get to the debate issue

[0:27:31] Trustee Patrick: where we could then discuss what we're hearing.

[0:27:34] Trustee Patrick: So that's the only thing.

[0:27:41] Trustee Patrick: Sorry, these are always challenging

[0:27:42] Trustee Patrick: and I don't want to lose anyone.

[0:27:45] Trustee Patrick: I guess, let me look to the audience here.

[0:27:47] Trustee Patrick: I know there's two hands up right now.

[0:27:51] Trustee Patrick: Rebecca just finished speaking.

[0:27:55] Trustee Patrick: Who intended to speak to us about the,

[0:27:59] Trustee Patrick: the temporary use permit for a short-term vacation rental that's on here today is I see

[0:28:07] Trustee Patrick: there's one hand Liz his hand is still up and that's it and okay how about is there anyone

[0:28:13] Trustee Patrick: else that intended to speak to us about any other issue on

[0:28:17] Voice 12: the agenda today no hands are coming up

[0:28:25] Voice 12: oh

[0:28:27] Trustee Patrick: my goodness okay oops so we just have one we just have one person who wishes to speak to us

[0:28:33] Trustee Patrick: about the um short-term vacation rental now so um i'd say in that case let's proceed i'll let you

[0:28:41] Trustee Patrick: turn off for a moment um and then we'll come back and do the minutes and um if that would work for

[0:28:47] Trustee Patrick: you okay thank you so much cameron okay uh liz good morning good morning

[0:28:57] Voice 14: good morning um i hope

[0:28:59] Voice 14: you can hear me? Yes, we can. Okay, great. I have just three points. And one was, I was trying to

[0:29:07] Voice 14: understand the rationale for the ratio of going up to more than 30 STVRs with the new 10 new TUP

[0:29:17] Voice 14: possibilities in a population with a house with households of, I think, roughly 122 households

[0:29:26] Voice 14: households on this island. And that to me is a shocking ratio. So at some point, I hope I can

[0:29:34] Voice 14: track down the rationale for arriving at that number. The second point I have is that for the

[0:29:42] Voice 14: guidelines for these new TUPs for STVR, I would highly recommend that these not be offered to

[0:29:50] Voice 14: to absentee owners.

[0:29:52] Voice 14: I think it's only fair to the neighbors

[0:29:55] Voice 14: that that be one of the guidelines.

[0:29:57] Voice 14: And so that is what I'm recommending.

[0:30:00] Voice 14: Third is for better, broader, and earlier notification to neighborhoods who may have these TUPs apply for.

[0:30:11] Voice 14: In this case, it was a real scramble for our neighborhood to be able to respond to something that they did not even know about until the very last minute.

[0:30:22] Voice 14: So those are my three points, and that's all I have. Thank you.

[0:30:26] Voice 14: Thank you very much, Liz.

[0:30:29] Voice 12: is okay is there anyone else that wishes to address us today i'm not seeing anyone so thank

[0:30:39] Trustee Patrick: thank you we always want to hear from you it's important to reach out to us to your trustees

[0:30:45] Trustee Patrick: you can also send your messages to south info at islands trust.bc.ca and the messages the

[0:30:53] Trustee Patrick: information will get to you and be on the record which is important as we want to hear from you

[0:31:01] Trustee Patrick: so uh with that we're going to proceed through our agenda today and there's an opportunity for

[0:31:06] Trustee Patrick: you to speak at the end um as as well today okay so trust trustees we have um before us then the

[0:31:14] Trustee Patrick: um um well we've already adopted the minutes i i think for um uh for november 5th but then we

[0:31:22] Trustee Patrick: have the minutes from our special meeting on january 20th are there any additions or

[0:31:27] Trustee Patrick: corrections to those let's

[0:31:33] Voice 7: see yeah i

[0:31:34] Voice 12: think there is on page 14

[0:31:35] Voice 12: okay thank you i

[0:31:46] Voice 7: know we um

[0:31:46] Voice 7: there's a couple of there's uh i'm not how important it is but there's some spelling

[0:31:51] Voice 7: mistakes uh on uh in a couple of spots i'm not sure if it's worth uh not worth raising but um

[0:31:59] Voice 7: there's nothing that i see on the uh on the the notes that we have to be concerned about i think

[0:32:09] Voice 7: that can be adopted as is okay

[0:32:13] Trustee Patrick: if there's no further corrections can we adopt the January

[0:32:18] Trustee Patrick: 20th special meeting minutes as presented through general consent yes

[0:32:25] Voice 13: excellent

[0:32:26] Trustee Patrick: we just have the

[0:32:28] Trustee Patrick: notice of the resolutions without meetings which just to remind people the purpose there was to

[0:32:35] Trustee Patrick: to we had to modify to have this meeting today required that our meeting bylaws be updated to

[0:32:41] Trustee Patrick: reflect new regulations that came out in the fall to allow us to have virtual meetings and that was

[0:32:46] Trustee Patrick: the purpose of the resolution without meetings was to adopt and be able to move that through so

[0:32:51] Trustee Patrick: we can have have that bylaw in place to allow this meeting and and this is now a permanent

[0:32:57] Trustee Patrick: this isn't through the emergency orders this was a permanent change that we'll be able to have

[0:33:02] Trustee Patrick: virtual meetings um as required going into the future i know we always prefer to be in person

[0:33:08] Trustee Patrick: and be there together to to to talk with you um okay so we have the follow-up action list on page

[0:33:18] Trustee Patrick: 18 to 19. are there any questions for staff or anything that staff wishes to talk about

[0:33:23] Trustee Patrick: okay i see planner stock bill thank

[0:33:25] Voice 2: you chair patrick just want to note um item or activity

[0:33:29] Voice 2: number two this is in relation to the short-term vacation rental project um so an email will will

[0:33:37] Voice 2: be sent out to all south pender email subscribers sometime next week and that will be notifying of

[0:33:43] Voice 2: the adoption of the two bylaws and also the registry list um the bylaws have now been

[0:33:49] Voice 2: consolidated and they've been placed on the the islands trust uh website so under bylaws you can

[0:33:55] Voice 2: find the consolidated land use bylaw and also the official community plan so that will be going out

[0:34:01] Voice 2: next week for those community members who have been waiting for it all

[0:34:05] Trustee Patrick: right thank you very much

[0:34:06] Trustee Patrick: any questions staff

[0:34:08] Voice 7: any explanation why that has taken so long yeah

[0:34:12] Voice 2: it um it did take some time

[0:34:14] Voice 2: for the bylaws to be consolidated and i did not want to send anything out until that was complete

[0:34:18] Voice 2: and that was completed about a week or two maybe two weeks ago and so now i'm just currently

[0:34:23] Voice 2: working on the language uh to be sent out so okay

[0:34:28] Voice 7: i hope that's okay with uh you donna since you

[0:34:31] Voice 7: raised the concern about that okay

[0:34:34] Trustee Patrick: any other questions on the follow-up action list uh page

[0:34:38] Voice 7: 19 uh number 5.3 it says the itps endorsed and i'm wondering if that is referring to the island's

[0:34:47] Voice 7: trust policy statement because if it is i don't believe it was endorsed as it is written yes that

[0:34:53] Voice 2: that is referring to the policy statement

[0:34:55] Voice 2: and there was a resolution.

[0:34:59] Voice 2: I'm just gonna double check on that item

[0:35:03] Voice 2: from the minutes of the November 5th meeting.

[0:35:08] Voice 5: So this is referring to the checklist, the directives?

[0:35:11] Voice 2: Yeah, the current policy.

[0:35:13] Trustee Patrick: Yes.

[0:35:14] Trustee Patrick: Okay,

[0:35:16] Voice 6: okay, I can buy that one.

[0:35:18] Voice 6: I just wanna make sure.

[0:35:20] Voice 6: I got some people out there listening.

[0:35:22] Voice 6: Fair enough.

[0:35:25] Voice 6: All right.

[0:35:28] Trustee Patrick: Any further questions?

[0:35:31] Voice 7: None.

[0:35:33] Trustee Patrick: Okay. Yeah. Process. It's one of those things. Okay.

[0:35:38] Trustee Patrick: In that case, we do have a reference to correspondence.

[0:35:42] Trustee Patrick: Like I said, we try to file your correspondence accordingly and read it all.

[0:35:46] Trustee Patrick: And there's been a lot of correspondence that's been received and circulated

[0:35:49] Trustee Patrick: to the trustees. So that does bring us now to the application.

[0:35:53] Trustee Patrick: So Cameron Thorne is going to

[0:35:56] Voice 11: recuse himself, thank you.

[0:35:58] Voice 11: Okay, so just probably text me or something when it's done

[0:36:02] Voice 11: and I'm just gonna leave the room.

[0:36:03] Trustee Patrick: All right, I'm gonna look to Steve to text you

[0:36:05] Trustee Patrick: when we're done.

[0:36:08] Trustee Patrick: Okay,

[0:36:08] Voice 13: thank you so much.

[0:36:10] Trustee Patrick: Okay, so that brings us to page 20 on the agenda package,

[0:36:13] Trustee Patrick: which is item 12.1, a temporary use permit 2021.1.

[0:36:19] Trustee Patrick: And we have a staff report there on page 20,

[0:36:22] Trustee Patrick: and I'm going to look over to planner test them all so floor is yours thank

[0:36:26] Planner: you chair Patrick

[0:36:27] Planner: so the application is for a TUP for an STPR use within an existing 42 meters squared one bedroom

[0:36:35] Planner: dwelling which is located at 9890 Castle Road the guest capacity for by application is for maximum

[0:36:43] Planner: of four and the applicants estimate that they would use they would be using personally sorry

[0:36:50] Planner: the use would be for approximately 20 to 26 weeks of the year and it would be secondary to their

[0:36:57] Planner: continued use by family and friends so the rationale is that by the applicant is to comply

[0:37:03] Planner: with bylaw regulations assist with offsetting property expenses and allowing others to

[0:37:09] Planner: experience the beauty and natural setting that south pender island has to offer so the applicants

[0:37:14] Planner: have provided a statement that as part of the application that adds further details on their

[0:37:20] Planner: rationale and outlines their proposed business model as well as other information submitted on

[0:37:26] Planner: the property as well and septic system and the information that they propose to provide to all

[0:37:32] Planner: renters. So a checklist that was developed and attached and that reviewed the application for

[0:37:38] Planner: the each of the OCP guidelines and in summary all those guidelines have been met. So the analysis

[0:37:45] Planner: section of the report expands on the groundwater and water conservation measures, sensitive

[0:37:52] Planner: ecosystems that occur on the property and potential impacts to neighbors. So conditions in the TUP were

[0:37:59] Planner: drafted using the OCP guidelines and had the objective of ensuring that the use does not have

[0:38:04] Planner: an unreasonable impact on neighbors in the local area and the natural environment and also provides

[0:38:10] Planner: the ability to enforce compliance with the conditions of the tup so the recommended term

[0:38:18] Planner: of three years is as drafted was the max there's always a maximum permitted and the ltc does have

[0:38:25] Planner: the option to reduce that time frame there are numerous conditions that the local trust

[0:38:31] Planner: committee may adopt if they choose to approve the application by amending the draft tup

[0:38:38] Planner: before it's approved however as notification has already been undertaken conditions cannot

[0:38:45] Planner: be removed or lessened without re-notification to neighbors so the tup notices were circulated

[0:38:52] Planner: as required to surrounding property owners and residents and they were published in the driftwood

[0:38:57] Planner: newspaper and posted on community billboards and at the time of writing staff had received one

[0:39:03] Planner: letter in opposition however since in the last week we have received a total of 15 emails and

[0:39:09] Planner: letters that have been sorry that have been received two of those are in favor and 13 sorry

[0:39:15] Planner: 12 of those are in opposition and all of those have been provided to the local trust committee

[0:39:20] Planner: and the applicant additionally the applicant has provided a detailed written response to the

[0:39:26] Planner: concerns raised in the letters of opposition and a letter with a request to amend the application

[0:39:32] Planner: with further conditions and that those amendments would be to limit the maximum number of

[0:39:41] Planner: adult guests to two maximum number of two children under the age of five or a maximum

[0:39:48] Planner: of one child over the age of five and to amend parking from four cars to a maximum of two

[0:39:56] Planner: So on the latter, staff notes that that cannot be added without further, that condition could not be altered without further notification.

[0:40:05] Planner: But it could be managed with a further condition to limit the number of vehicles associated with the use.

[0:40:12] Planner: The applicant is also proposing to limit the number of visitors to the STVR to two adults with an exemption for four with written position, sorry, permission.

[0:40:22] Planner: And in response to the neighbor concerns, they are also proposing to plant additional trees and are willing to put up privacy fencing so the staff recommendations on page one have been changed with further amendments in consideration of those neighbor

[0:40:39] Planner: concerns that we've heard.

[0:40:41] Planner: so and i will email this to the local trust committee and shannon although i'm not sure

[0:40:46] Planner: shannon's in attendance right now and that is that the south pender island local trust committee

[0:40:51] Planner: amend the tup with the addition of a new condition stating that the maximum number of days between

[0:40:59] Planner: may 1 and september 1 be limited to a total of 60 days uh secondly that a new condition

[0:41:05] Planner: and stating the maximum number of vehicles associated with the use be limited to a total

[0:41:11] Planner: of two at any one time. And then that the local trust committee approve issuance of

[0:41:18] Planner: temporary use permit as amended for a period of two years, which would be a reduction

[0:41:25] Planner: to three years that was as drafted. So those recommendations are supported as the rationale

[0:41:31] Planner: now for the use is reasonable the size of the dwelling the guest capacity and the marketing

[0:41:36] Planner: strategy is reasonable and modest cumulative impacts of the stvr use from approval would be

[0:41:43] Planner: small given the neighborhood and the island context limiting the number of days in the summer

[0:41:49] Planner: would further limit impacts and provide certainty to neighbors the shorter time period for

[0:41:56] Planner: for, sorry, of issuance or, sorry, the permit would be valid for, would allow any impacts to

[0:42:06] Planner: be measured prior to considering a renewal and obviously compress that time to monitor the use

[0:42:13] Planner: and the impacts on the neighborhood. The applicants have provided information on a well with good and

[0:42:20] Planner: consistent yields and they have also installed rainwater catchment system and have incorporated

[0:42:25] Planner: water conservation measures into their guest information and although there's been a large

[0:42:32] Planner: number of letters against the proposal the permit with recommended amendments provides conditions

[0:42:38] Planner: consistent with the OCP guidelines and would ensure that use does not have an unreasonable

[0:42:43] Planner: impact on the local area and in the event it does there's the ability to enforce compliance for the

[0:42:49] Planner: the TEP. Alternative resolutions have been provided. And that's my summary.

[0:42:55] Trustee Patrick: Thank you very much. I see the applicant is here. Catherine Ellis, I believe. Robin,

[0:43:03] Trustee Patrick: if we could have Catherine elevated, I think we bring her on the panel or

[0:43:08] Trustee Patrick: just make it so she can talk. I guess she can. Hello, Catherine. Can you hear us?

[0:43:13] Voice 1: Hi. Yeah, I can. Can you hear me?

[0:43:15] Trustee Patrick: Yes. Hi, Catherine. So this is your opportunity, Catherine, you can address us. And if you have

[0:43:20] Trustee Patrick: any comments about the report or what you just heard from our planner, and the floor is yours.

[0:43:26] Trustee Patrick: Yeah,

[0:43:26] Voice 1: I want to first go and say thank you to all of you here and members of the trust and

[0:43:32] Voice 1: fill testimony for all of your hard work on this. I know we're the first application to come through

[0:43:37] Voice 1: and with that comes pressures and changes and growing, right? I think we had responded to all

[0:43:44] Voice 1: All of the concerns noted by the correspondence during this week to fill into the trustees.

[0:43:51] Voice 1: So that has been sent through. So I won't take up time in further responding to that correspondence at this time.

[0:43:57] Voice 1: But I will just make note in terms of our overall arcing vision of what we hope to do.

[0:44:03] Voice 1: I think the biggest thing for us as a family is to be a part of the community.

[0:44:06] Voice 1: community. My partner and I's plan within the next seven to 10 years is to become full-time

[0:44:13] Voice 1: residents and part of South Pender Island's community. And the thing that drew us to the

[0:44:17] Voice 1: island was the connection to the environment, the privacy, the importance in terms of

[0:44:26] Voice 1: conservatory efforts and being in a place that is so beautiful and untouched. And we're hopeful

[0:44:31] Voice 1: that when we're not present on the island that in order not not all the time it won't be as many

[0:44:36] Voice 1: guests as we can fit in it's truly going to be solely to help in offsetting the cost for us to

[0:44:41] Voice 1: still be able to enjoy it as a family allow for other individuals like-minded who are environmentally

[0:44:48] Voice 1: conscious who are interested in either remote work opportunities to come and stay and work

[0:44:53] Voice 1: remotely at our location for couples to escape for a weekend and enjoy some of the beauty that

[0:44:58] Voice 1: that South Pender has to offer to come and visit the island.

[0:45:02] Voice 1: We are not looking to have large groups.

[0:45:04] Voice 1: We're not looking to have guests frequently

[0:45:06] Voice 1: and we are hoping to be there.

[0:45:08] Voice 1: Our hope is two weeks a month if we can

[0:45:12] Voice 1: for ourselves to actually be on island

[0:45:14] Voice 1: and to get further immersed within the community.

[0:45:16] Voice 1: And that's our goal.

[0:45:17] Voice 1: I think that we have heard what the residents have to say.

[0:45:22] Voice 1: We've come up with methods to be able to offset

[0:45:25] Voice 1: the the issues for our neighbors and that in terms of the concerns with having an absentee owner

[0:45:34] Voice 1: we are not going to be absent we are going to be present we are going to be visiting the property

[0:45:40] Voice 1: regularly communicating with the guests and we do have a property manager and an additional online

[0:45:45] Voice 1: contact both available 24 7 who will also be checking in and potentially driving by to ensure

[0:45:52] Voice 1: that everything's in order so we're trying our best to mitigate all of the concerns that have

[0:45:57] Voice 1: been brought forward we do want to be a part of the community and we do hope to be able to stay

[0:46:01] Voice 1: and be a part of south pender island long term and we appreciate your consideration all right

[0:46:07] Trustee Patrick: thank you very much catherine uh trustee wright and myself will now have a discussion we may have

[0:46:13] Trustee Patrick: questions for you or questions for the planner so i'll look to you trustee wright to kick it off

[0:46:21] Voice 7: well i i want to thank the applicant for submitting such a comprehensive and detailed

[0:46:25] Voice 7: application she probably is aware this is our inaugural one for under the new bylaw we have

[0:46:32] Voice 7: we have received a large number of letters of course and i want to acknowledge that the off

[0:46:38] Voice 7: the applicant has offered to amend her application uh in response to a number of these concerns um

[0:46:44] Voice 7: Um, I think that, uh, I think if I read, uh, our planner customarily correctly, um, the

[0:46:52] Voice 7: number of these issues will probably require a notification to the, uh, to the neighbors

[0:46:57] Voice 7: again.

[0:46:58] Voice 7: Uh, do you want me to answer that or?

[0:47:01] Planner: Yeah, sure.

[0:47:02] Planner: Uh, adding conditions does not, um, require, um, any new notification to neighbors.

[0:47:08] Planner: Um, as long as you're not lessening the condition.

[0:47:11] Planner: So, if you're trying to remove a condition that would require, but essentially what you're doing is you're making the temporary use permit more restrictive. And that, so the expectation by anybody who's received it is that, you know, as they've responded.

[0:47:26] Planner: on it so okay so

[0:47:27] Voice 7: it's more not less

[0:47:28] Planner: that's right yeah

[0:47:30] Voice 7: well if i could just say for future reference

[0:47:32] Voice 7: much of this could have been avoided um i guess if if the applicant had spoken previously to

[0:47:37] Voice 7: the strata council and the adjacent property owners um i think a simple courtesy call can

[0:47:43] Voice 7: provide correct information for everybody and provide the intent and it can avoid disputes

[0:47:51] Voice 7: disputes, which ultimately, of course, benefit no one, usually have little to do with the issue

[0:47:58] Voice 7: at hand and unfortunately can damage relationships that can be long lasting. And I don't feel it's

[0:48:05] Voice 7: this committee's job to mediate disputes among neighbors. We just make decisions based on our

[0:48:10] Voice 7: bylaws. The concerns I've heard about fire are reasonable and were heightened certainly after

[0:48:16] Voice 7: after last summer, but I think it's unfair

[0:48:18] Voice 7: to attribute an increase in that threat to visitors

[0:48:21] Voice 7: to a single property.

[0:48:23] Voice 7: Concerns about noise, well, they could come

[0:48:26] Voice 7: from any property, could come from any owner,

[0:48:29] Voice 7: it could come from any renter.

[0:48:31] Voice 7: And I think it's not reasonable to refuse an application

[0:48:37] Voice 7: based on those concerns alone.

[0:48:40] Voice 7: Water, however, is a growing and legitimate concern.

[0:48:43] Voice 7: CERN. The applicant has submitted a well log from December of 1994, and then a retest done in

[0:48:52] Voice 7: 2004, I believe. Both of those tests were done in December, and I just don't believe that a water

[0:49:01] Voice 7: test done in December has any reliability for the amount of water that is available in the

[0:49:08] Voice 7: summertime. So I think if we're looking for reliability, I think a pump test should be done

[0:49:13] Voice 7: in August or September.

[0:49:16] Voice 7: I appreciate that the applicant

[0:49:18] Voice 7: has included water catchment facilities,

[0:49:20] Voice 7: but again, those are only useful if it continues to rain,

[0:49:25] Voice 7: which we had a severe lack of last summer

[0:49:27] Voice 7: as everyone can remember.

[0:49:29] Voice 7: There's certainly some merit in the suggestions

[0:49:30] Voice 7: that many of the neighbors concerns would be mitigated

[0:49:33] Voice 7: if someone would stay at the house full time,

[0:49:35] Voice 7: but that simply is not possible with this case.

[0:49:39] Voice 7: But one of the primary reasons for trustees

[0:49:41] Voice 7: season undertaking a review of STVRs in the last couple of years was because online platforms such

[0:49:47] Voice 7: as AB and Airbnb and BRBO recognized and took advantage of loopholes that were in local bylaws

[0:49:59] Voice 7: to introduce commercial uses within a residential neighborhood. And for that reason, the LTC

[0:50:06] Voice 7: see declined or defined STVRs as a commercial use and it is abundantly clear to me with the number

[0:50:15] Voice 7: of letters in response to this application is that residents do not want additional commercial uses

[0:50:21] Voice 7: within their neighborhood. So for that reason I feel I need to deny this application but given

[0:50:29] Voice 7: the care in which this applicant has made this application, I think, or let me put it this way,

[0:50:39] Voice 7: I'd encourage her to have a meeting with the neighbors and see if she can reconcile some of

[0:50:45] Voice 7: these conclusions, because I think many of them are entirely reasonable, and see if they can come

[0:50:51] Voice 7: to some conclusion and then re-re-reapply for um this permit um

[0:50:57] Voice 1: steve may i make a quick comment

[0:50:59] Voice 1: is that allowed yes may go ahead

[0:51:01] Voice 1: captain i know there was mention of speaking to the owners in

[0:51:04] Voice 1: advance and i had sent letters to um all surrounding properties and neighbors that we

[0:51:10] Voice 1: that we were aware of within the strata development to speak with them in early december

[0:51:15] Voice 1: as per Phil's recommendation to which we received no response and without notice the strata advised

[0:51:23] Voice 1: that they were going to pass a motion to ban our permitting until they could make a further

[0:51:29] Voice 1: decision but with no correspondence to us after asking for feedback. So I do feel that we took

[0:51:35] Voice 1: the good neighbor approach of trying to speak with them effectively and have that communication

[0:51:40] Voice 1: and upon being forwarded the communication by the strata members that had been spoken without as

[0:51:47] Voice 1: included on of their concerns we'd amended our rules and regulations and further brought them

[0:51:54] Voice 1: forward for their direction and help on it to which there was no response and and following

[0:52:00] Voice 1: the strata meeting we'd reached out again and at this point um i i just don't think that the

[0:52:07] Voice 1: the communication is going to be there.

[0:52:09] Voice 1: So I understand your decision.

[0:52:11] Voice 1: I just, I wanted to make it known that we did

[0:52:13] Voice 1: circulate an email to all neighbors.

[0:52:15] Voice 1: We did provide them with the rules and regulations

[0:52:17] Voice 1: to which we received no response.

[0:52:21] Trustee Patrick: Thank you, Catherine.

[0:52:24] Voice 7: Yeah, believe me, we go through this quite frequently.

[0:52:28] Voice 7: I mean, some of the complaints that we're getting now

[0:52:30] Voice 7: about the new SCBR bylaws make it obvious

[0:52:35] Voice 7: that nobody participated in the last two years

[0:52:38] Voice 7: of while we developed these bylaws.

[0:52:40] Voice 7: I know communication is difficult.

[0:52:43] Voice 7: Nevertheless, I think some attempt has to be made

[0:52:51] Voice 7: if it requires our assistance

[0:52:53] Voice 7: in having a community meeting

[0:52:55] Voice 7: or at least a neighborhood meeting to monitor

[0:52:57] Voice 7: and to just maybe monitor is the wrong word,

[0:53:01] Voice 7: but to hold the meeting uh to have to pull everybody together um certainly willing to do

[0:53:07] Voice 7: that but i think that uh at this stage of the game with the number of letters that we've received

[0:53:11] Voice 7: i just uh have difficulty in accepting as it is

[0:53:17] Trustee Patrick: thank you um i want to thank you katherine um

[0:53:23] Trustee Patrick: i know it's it's it's never fun to be the first out of the gate and and um uh not only are the

[0:53:30] Trustee Patrick: I think this is the first application we've had period

[0:53:32] Trustee Patrick: since I've been involved

[0:53:34] Trustee Patrick: in the South Pender Local Trust Committee.

[0:53:38] Trustee Patrick: So it is challenging on those grounds.

[0:53:43] Trustee Patrick: I think this is a new regulation.

[0:53:46] Trustee Patrick: I don't know, is this the only,

[0:53:47] Trustee Patrick: are there other strata subdivisions

[0:53:49] Trustee Patrick: on South Pender trustee right?

[0:53:53] Trustee Patrick: Or is this the only one?

[0:53:54] Trustee Patrick: This is the

[0:53:55] Trustee Patrick: only one.

[0:53:56] Trustee Patrick: So I think being that this,

[0:53:58] Trustee Patrick: We only just adopted this bylaw recently.

[0:54:02] Trustee Patrick: I think these are important questions for stratas to look at is how the rules that they have in their own subdivisions.

[0:54:10] Trustee Patrick: However, that said, short-term vacation rentals were an outright use that was allowed up until recently.

[0:54:19] Trustee Patrick: So if the strata was having concerns with short-term vacation rentals, like I said, the use already existed.

[0:54:26] Trustee Patrick: it wasn't like we provided a new use um so there had not been or do you do you know trustee right

[0:54:34] Trustee Patrick: has there been concerns in that strata um in the past or um but um it's all hearsay

[0:54:43] Voice 7: put anything on the record okay

[0:54:46] Trustee Patrick: um um so like i said i i'm i'm extremely um torn uh on this it's

[0:54:56] Trustee Patrick: it's uh it's it's it's challenging um you know i i am um you know personally it's very difficult

[0:55:04] Trustee Patrick: i'm very sympathetic toward uh you know making full-time rental uh um uh a priority for certain

[0:55:11] Trustee Patrick: in our communities because we are in desperate need of housing i think the pender from what i've

[0:55:17] Trustee Patrick: heard because i chair north pender the situation is is very similar um uh to what we're experiencing

[0:55:24] Trustee Patrick: here on Salt Spring that there is just no rental

[0:55:26] Trustee Patrick: for permanent rental available.

[0:55:33] Trustee Patrick: So this is a very difficult and challenging situation.

[0:55:45] Trustee Patrick: I guess I look to you trustee Wright,

[0:55:47] Trustee Patrick: if you wish to make a motion.

[0:55:53] Voice 7: I'll have to make the motion

[0:55:54] Voice 7: that the South Pender Island Local Trust Committee

[0:55:56] Voice 7: denied temporary use permit application STTUP 2021.1.

[0:56:02] Voice 7: on uh ellis all

[0:56:05] Trustee Patrick: right i will second that for discussion um is there any discussion on this

[0:56:10] Trustee Patrick: motion uh

[0:56:13] Voice 7: no other than i'll repeat that i'll uh encourage uh the neighborhood to get together with

[0:56:18] Voice 7: the applicant because uh um i i find this application um reasonable um and i think the

[0:56:25] Voice 7: mitigative uh suggestions that the applicant has put in um uh needs to be explained to the

[0:56:32] Voice 7: to the neighborhood and uh and some solution found uh and then i'd uh i'd entertain a um

[0:56:39] Voice 7: a reapplication of the same well

[0:56:44] Voice 12: no thank you yeah

[0:56:48] Trustee Patrick: it's like i said i'm

[0:56:50] Trustee Patrick: these are very difficult situations um this is new i think it gives me certainly a lot to think

[0:56:56] Trustee Patrick: about is you know we go back and take a look at the um um at the guidelines are you know where

[0:57:04] Trustee Patrick: Are there things we missed or things that we need to need to consider as we go forward?

[0:57:08] Trustee Patrick: And that's unfortunately part of the lessons learned and the adaptive nature we need to be at all at all times to be

[0:57:14] Trustee Patrick: able to look at what we've set.

[0:57:16] Trustee Patrick: Is it reasonable? Does it need to be modified to go forward?

[0:57:20] Trustee Patrick: And and as Trustee Wright said, it's saying that we now that this is in place, I think we do want to hear from the community and understand how to make sure we have guidelines that are reasonable and will work for the community.

[0:57:34] Trustee Patrick: as well as give some assurances to those that are applying

[0:57:38] Trustee Patrick: that they understand the process

[0:57:41] Trustee Patrick: and have some reasonable expectations

[0:57:43] Trustee Patrick: of what can be expected coming out of that.

[0:57:49] Trustee Patrick: And certainly I would hope that there could be some healing

[0:57:53] Trustee Patrick: and understanding in the community

[0:57:54] Trustee Patrick: and support for these things.

[0:57:58] Voice 7: Yeah, I think to a certain extent,

[0:58:00] Voice 7: the Strata Council itself has to bear

[0:58:01] Voice 7: some of the responsibility in the communication issue.

[0:58:03] Voice 7: so um let me just let me just throw that on the table for them to ponder all

[0:58:09] Trustee Patrick: right okay

[0:58:11] Trustee Patrick: any further discussion i will call the vote all those in favor and that is carried i'm sorry

[0:58:21] Trustee Patrick: katherine that um at this time the this decision has been made and uh but i think the the door is

[0:58:27] Trustee Patrick: open to come back um uh hopefully with um uh stronger support from uh the neighbors will make

[0:58:36] Trustee Patrick: a helpful i

[0:58:39] Voice 1: want to say thank you for your consideration we really appreciate it um on

[0:58:42] Voice 1: the basis of the communication receipt we'll most likely be um leaving the community but we really

[0:58:47] Voice 1: appreciate um your consideration and we did try to speak to the strata council and to the owners and

[0:58:52] Voice 1: and we were ignored on multiple occasions,

[0:58:54] Voice 1: in person and via email and phone.

[0:58:57] Voice 1: So appreciate your consideration and love South Pender,

[0:59:00] Voice 1: but wish you all the best.

[0:59:02] Voice 1: All right, thank you, Catherine.

[0:59:07] Trustee Patrick: With that, Trustee Wright,

[0:59:10] Trustee Patrick: can you let Trustee Thorne know to come back?

[0:59:13] Voice 12: So we'll, here we go.

[0:59:44] Voice 12: Chair

[0:59:44] Planner: Patrick, I'm just gonna say thank you

[0:59:47] Planner: and leave the meeting now, so.

[0:59:49] Trustee Patrick: Thank you, Trustee, Trustee.

[0:59:51] Trustee Patrick: Rusty, yeah, I just gave you an elevated view.

[0:59:53] Planner: Run away, run away.

[0:59:55] Planner: Okay, thanks very much.

[0:59:56] Trustee Patrick: Planner, test them all.

[0:59:57] Trustee Patrick: Thank you very much.

[0:59:58] Trustee Patrick: Thanks, bye.

[1:00:04] Voice 7: It doesn't look like Cameron's on his phone.

[1:00:09] Trustee Patrick: Solving the world's problems.

[1:00:11] Trustee Patrick: So wait a moment.

[1:00:12] Voice 7: He just came back.

[1:00:16] Voice 7: Taking on another meeting, I guess.

[1:00:18] Voice 7: All right.

[1:00:19] Trustee Patrick: Just to let everyone know, we'll be proceeding on the next item on the agenda, which is 13.1,

[1:00:23] Trustee Patrick: which is the South Pender Island Local Trust Committee Fees Bylaw number 124.

[1:00:29] Trustee Patrick: It's here for us for consideration on page 64.

[1:00:32] Trustee Patrick: Robert, if you can hold tight.

[1:00:33] Trustee Patrick: we're just waiting for Cameron to join us yep hi

[1:00:44] Voice 12: there I'm here all

[1:00:48] Trustee Patrick: right welcome back and

[1:00:50] Trustee Patrick: we are on to the next item now which is the fees bylaw and which one

[1:00:56] Trustee Patrick: chair page 64 13.1

[1:00:59] Trustee Patrick: the fees bylaw 124 for consideration oh

[1:01:02] Voice 12: yeah and

[1:01:03] Trustee Patrick: regional planning manager Kojima is about to give

[1:01:07] Trustee Patrick: us a staff report thank

[1:01:08] Voice 5: you so local trust committee saw this back at the September meeting

[1:01:12] Voice 5: as the model fees bylaw that was endorsed by Trust Council.

[1:01:16] Voice 5: At that meeting in September,

[1:01:18] Voice 5: the LTC requested staff to draft a new fee bylaw

[1:01:21] Voice 5: based on the model

[1:01:23] Voice 5: and bring it back to the local trust committee

[1:01:25] Voice 5: for consideration of the first three readings.

[1:01:28] Voice 5: So as an administrative bylaw,

[1:01:30] Voice 5: it can be given three readings all at the same meeting

[1:01:32] Voice 5: and referred directly to executive committee for approval.

[1:01:39] Voice 5: And then if that's the case,

[1:01:40] Voice 5: then it would come back to the local trust committee later for adoption um so there's a

[1:01:45] Voice 5: bit of background in the report but basically the ltc's seen this a couple of times both as a model

[1:01:51] Voice 5: on the september agenda and at trust council um this is based on a significant amount of work done

[1:01:58] Voice 5: by the regional planning committee on adjusting fees and it's the first it would be the first

[1:02:04] Voice 5: change to the fees bylaw in quite some time so um you know significant increases in a number of the

[1:02:13] Voice 5: fees um but um you know based on a pretty extensive analysis by the regional planning committee and

[1:02:19] Voice 5: the fact that the fees haven't increased for a very long time and

[1:02:26] Voice 11: and um sorry go ahead questions

[1:02:28] Voice 11: just this i remember when we used to get together in person for tc news a long time ago but this

[1:02:37] Voice 11: This was the stuff that we seem to like we talked about this a long time ago and David Marler was given that sort of the overview on this and if is it this, this was tied I think to my number of us myself, Deb Morrison, others had made the point that we felt that fees should be calibrated to recover the cost for applications, so that, you know, effectively other people aren't subsidizing is that all part and parcel of the same.

[1:03:00] Voice 11: yeah that's

[1:03:01] Voice 5: yeah so you would have seen david would have presented it at trust council

[1:03:04] Voice 5: regional planning committee would have talked about it and trustee morrison is that there

[1:03:09] Voice 5: well that would have been trustee beshaken as the chair of regional planning committee was

[1:03:13] Voice 5: would have presented it um so it was considered a trust council and then you saw it again as

[1:03:18] Voice 5: i said in september in the model so the only difference between the model and the the draft

[1:03:23] Voice 5: you've got is we've taken out um the section on siting and use permits which isn't applicable

[1:03:27] Voice 5: it's only Hornby and Denman that have siting and use permits.

[1:03:31] Voice 5: So other than that, it's identical to the model.

[1:03:34] Voice 5: And yes, it's based on an analysis of, you know,

[1:03:38] Voice 5: the more typical approach to how much staff time

[1:03:41] Voice 5: and what the true fixed costs are

[1:03:43] Voice 5: associated with applications.

[1:03:45] Voice 5: You know, I don't think that there it's intended

[1:03:47] Voice 5: to be 100% cost recovery,

[1:03:50] Voice 5: but getting closer to that aspiration, if you like.

[1:03:56] Trustee Patrick: I was going to say if I could add because it's it's through the local government act we're only

[1:04:00] Trustee Patrick: allowed to recover fees for the average cost yeah um

[1:04:04] Trustee Patrick: is is what's only allowed right

[1:04:07] Voice 11: and so these

[1:04:08] Voice 11: fees these fees um that we see in the table those would be the same fees if we were on a different

[1:04:13] Voice 11: island too

[1:04:13] Voice 5: that's yeah that's why it's a model bylaw the model

[1:04:16] Voice 11: is all the

[1:04:17] Voice 5: same I

[1:04:18] Voice 11: mean it's up

[1:04:18] Voice 5: It's up to local trust committees to adopt them or not, and there is an ability to, if you like, shift them or vary them by up to 20% and still stick with the Trust Council policy as far as the fees go.

[1:04:34] Voice 11: And so if we wanted to, I remember that thing, like this again, the question before us is to approve the model bylaw, and I'm just making something up.

[1:04:43] Voice 11: But if somebody coming in with an application for something that had a really worthy community benefit, I'm not sure what it is, that under that scenario, that time consideration could be given to vary it by 20% or is that something we're supposed to do now?

[1:04:59] Voice 5: This is not something you're supposed to do now.

[1:05:01] Voice 5: So it would be to vary all the fees or a fee for one particular type of application by 20% either way in this bylaw.

[1:05:09] Voice 5: law but if someone came forward with a community benefit there's the executive committee sponsorship

[1:05:15] Voice 5: for that so executive committee can sponsor up to 100 of an application and there's a trust

[1:05:21] Voice 5: council policy for that um with criteria i

[1:05:25] Trustee Patrick: just noticed that i thought there was a temporary use

[1:05:27] Trustee Patrick: permit that could have a reduced fee with a community benefit that was not here that was

[1:05:33] Voice 5: in the model that was the other things right that was the other thing that was in the model but that

[1:05:36] Voice 5: That was, I think it was only, it was explicit to Gabriola that has such a, some island that had a very specific policy in their OCP that allowed for temporary use permits with, where there's community benefit that could have a lower fee.

[1:05:58] Trustee Patrick: We have that on Salt Spring.

[1:06:01] Trustee Patrick: Salt Spring? Okay.

[1:06:02] Voice 5: No,

[1:06:02] Trustee Patrick: we don't have it's not in our OCP we have community amenities, I think we all have community amenities, but that was an added item I, it was the intent was that to be added for all islands with my understanding through the because I'm on the regional planning committee.

[1:06:20] Trustee Patrick: To have that option so that that was.

[1:06:24] Trustee Patrick: That was something we had but yes, any like rezoning anything so if someone came along with a.

[1:06:30] Trustee Patrick: a housing project that was going to be for seniors or something of that nature,

[1:06:35] Trustee Patrick: it could be recommended that it be sponsored through, you know, or child care centers. I'm

[1:06:43] Trustee Patrick: trying to think of all the ones that I've seen come to us at the executive. Affordable housing.

[1:06:48] Voice 5: Affordable

[1:06:48] Trustee Patrick: housing. Yeah, we can sponsor those applications. Yeah.

[1:06:53] Voice 5: Community hall or, you know,

[1:06:55] Voice 5: something like that is a typical one that comes forward for sponsorship.

[1:07:01] Voice 11: Just this one question, sorry, under Table 2, TEP, like type of temporary use permit, and sort of maybe Laura, you already, or Chair, you already mentioned this, but so what category would an STVR, for example, what would that be, is that under category number 11 then?

[1:07:20] Voice 11: Yes.

[1:07:20] Voice 11: Okay.

[1:07:22] Voice 11: Okay, right.

[1:07:23] Voice 11: And so that's gone, that would go to 2100, and is it what, 1100 now or something?

[1:07:29] Voice 11: That's right, yeah.

[1:07:31] Voice 11: Okay.

[1:07:34] Voice 7: the um the question that has come up to me um in within the community is um why is this costing so

[1:07:43] Voice 7: much money to complete an application there's uh there's been no real no real explanation out there

[1:07:52] Voice 7: where these costs go and how they are incurred and uh that's that's a sticking question for many

[1:08:00] Voice 7: many people that i've spoken to

[1:08:01] Voice 5: yes i can imagine um the so the regional planning committee when

[1:08:07] Voice 5: they looked at this did quite a bit of analysis on that so there would be all the the the reports

[1:08:12] Voice 5: and the records on that we were tracking um time spent on applications individual applications for

[1:08:20] Voice 5: almost a year um so you can imagine the the sort of the paperwork that went into that to try and

[1:08:25] Voice 5: come up with a with a more accurate calculation of the average planner time spent on an application

[1:08:34] Voice 5: and then there's not only planner time there's a factor applied for admin staff because there's

[1:08:38] Voice 5: admin work associated with an application of course and then there's what's called you might

[1:08:43] Voice 5: want to consider the hard costs or the fixed costs of an application and that might be a little easier

[1:08:47] Voice 5: for people to understand is you know like for example with the temporary use permit for the stv

[1:08:51] Voice 5: today notification was made to neighbors so that was mail out hand delivery and the local government

[1:09:00] Voice 5: act requires that that be put in a newspaper so there's the cause there's those though that right

[1:09:05] Voice 5: there you know it's a thousand dollars in hard costs if you like and then when you add the staff

[1:09:09] Voice 5: time into processing the application and that ranges from reviewing the file doing a site visit

[1:09:16] Voice 5: it talking to the applicant getting additional information from the applicant and then drafting

[1:09:22] Voice 5: the staff report and uh getting it on the agenda so

[1:09:26] Voice 7: they seem low they do

[1:09:30] Voice 7: i think it might be a

[1:09:32] Voice 7: good idea for the trust to put that on the web page

[1:09:34] Voice 7: and and give some indication of where these costs are because it would probably

[1:09:39] Voice 7: stop a lot of the concern that that i keep hearing the second one i i hear is uh specifically

[1:09:46] Voice 7: with timelines is that if is there any assurance that if they're going to people are going to spend

[1:09:51] Voice 7: more money on an application whether the service is going to improve by being a little I

[1:09:57] Voice 5: would

[1:09:58] Voice 5: argue that we give pretty good service as it is I mean the self-manager doesn't have a lot of

[1:10:03] Voice 5: experience with what we maybe call land use permits which would be a development variance

[1:10:07] Voice 5: permit temporary use permit or development permit but the our benchmark for turning around a land

[1:10:15] Voice 5: use permit is six to eight weeks so from the time the complete application is received to the time

[1:10:20] Voice 5: it's ready to go on an agenda we target six six to eight week turnaround um that's and i gotta tell

[1:10:26] Voice 5: you that's good

[1:10:28] Voice 11: yeah i i i'm i'm not gonna name names but i i work in places where it's a lot

[1:10:36] Voice 11: larger than that yeah

[1:10:37] Voice 5: yeah so if you look at municipalities and other even other regional

[1:10:41] Voice 5: districts it's a pretty we have a pretty um good service especially for land use permits

[1:10:47] Voice 5: rezonings different story i mean in the trust area there's a trust area rezonings do tend to take

[1:10:52] Voice 5: longer in the trust area than they might in a in another jurisdiction where they're more routine

[1:10:58] Voice 5: but when what

[1:10:59] Voice 11: is the timing for just out of curiosity what is the typical timing you know

[1:11:04] Voice 11: i've never done one on this island um but what what what are you finding is the typical timelines

[1:11:09] Voice 11: lines for a rezoning application um and maybe that's too broad a question but it can really

[1:11:16] Voice 5: really vary so i mean there are rezoning applications that you might say are minor

[1:11:20] Voice 5: right it's an uncontroversial it's you know just making some minor amendments to uh where there's

[1:11:29] Voice 5: a long-standing use on a property those can be six to nine months and that's sort of the

[1:11:35] Voice 5: the minimum sort of legislated required process with referrals and public hearing timelines and

[1:11:41] Voice 5: so on. But anything that it's involving a change, a significant change in use or an increase in

[1:11:47] Voice 5: density, even for things like affordable housing, it can range into one to two years, if not least.

[1:11:56] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, I can tell you, I mean, I can, we got a lot of experience here on Salt Spring and it does

[1:12:02] Trustee Patrick: range dramatically on, you know, the ease of what's being involved. You know, we've done a

[1:12:06] Trustee Patrick: rezoning for an affordable housing in you know less than just just around a year and some of

[1:12:12] Trustee Patrick: them are still you know years later just due to you know challenges with water and other things

[1:12:17] Trustee Patrick: that they're they're having to get through to to get there i can tell you as part of the again i

[1:12:22] Trustee Patrick: was on this committee that did this i did go and look at lots of rural communities to see what they

[1:12:27] Trustee Patrick: were charging as as well um and there is a there's a range but uh you know we just saw within what

[1:12:36] Trustee Patrick: what we're seeing in other rural communities?

[1:12:39] Voice 7: Yeah, well, I'm satisfied because I think the principle

[1:12:42] Voice 7: is that I agree with is that the user pay.

[1:12:46] Voice 7: And I don't think that general taxpayer

[1:12:49] Voice 7: and property tax payers should have to bear the costs

[1:12:53] Voice 7: of putting through applications for private people

[1:12:58] Voice 7: or for businesses.

[1:13:00] Voice 7: So I'm prepared to move that the South Bender Island

[1:13:04] Voice 7: Local Trust Committee By-law 124,

[1:13:07] Voice 7: cited as South Bender Island Local Trust Committee

[1:13:09] Voice 7: Fees By-law 2021 be given first reading.

[1:13:12] Trustee Patrick: Is there a second?

[1:13:14] Trustee Patrick: Seconded by Trustee Thorne.

[1:13:15] Trustee Patrick: Any discussion?

[1:13:17] Trustee Patrick: I can just again add from the regional planning.

[1:13:21] Trustee Patrick: I don't know why this took so long

[1:13:23] Trustee Patrick: to get up back to be reviewed again.

[1:13:24] Trustee Patrick: And I think the commitment is that

[1:13:26] Trustee Patrick: not to let this happen again.

[1:13:28] Trustee Patrick: There'll be automatic built-in cost of living increase

[1:13:32] Trustee Patrick: or whatnot cost but percentage increase on here

[1:13:38] Trustee Patrick: and that the committee is not going to let this sit,

[1:13:40] Trustee Patrick: shouldn't let this sit again.

[1:13:44] Trustee Patrick: Is there any further discussion?

[1:13:47] Trustee Patrick: I'll call the vote then.

[1:13:48] Trustee Patrick: All those in favor?

[1:13:50] Trustee Patrick: Terry?

[1:13:52] Voice 7: I was going to ask another question.

[1:13:55] Trustee Patrick: We've got to keep going if you want to do more readings.

[1:13:58] Voice 7: Yeah, if we reduce one of the fees,

[1:14:01] Voice 7: does that have to be now or can it be done

[1:14:03] Voice 7: and in a subsequent motion, depending on the application.

[1:14:08] Voice 5: Well, yeah, you should do it now, right?

[1:14:11] Voice 5: So if you were thinking, for example,

[1:14:13] Voice 5: just a random example,

[1:14:14] Voice 5: if you wanted to lower development variance permit fees

[1:14:19] Voice 5: by 20%, you should do it now, right?

[1:14:24] Voice 5: Because otherwise

[1:14:24] Voice 5: we'd have to bring the bylaw back

[1:14:26] Voice 5: for a subsequent amendment.

[1:14:27] Voice 7: Yeah, the difficulty is we don't know

[1:14:29] Voice 7: if that's gonna be required.

[1:14:31] Voice 7: It's certainly an option we have,

[1:14:32] Voice 7: but we can't make that at this given time.

[1:14:35] Voice 7: So I guess, given that consideration,

[1:14:40] Voice 7: let's get the second reading.

[1:14:42] Voice 7: So I'll move that the South Pender Island

[1:14:44] Voice 7: Local Trust Committee by-law number 124

[1:14:46] Voice 7: cited South Pender Island Local Trust Committee

[1:14:48] Voice 7: by-law 2020 be given a second reading.

[1:14:50] Trustee Patrick: Is there a second?

[1:14:52] Trustee Patrick: Second by Trustee Thorne.

[1:14:53] Trustee Patrick: Any discussion?

[1:14:56] Trustee Patrick: Call the vote.

[1:14:57] Trustee Patrick: All those in favor?

[1:14:58] Trustee Patrick: And that's carried.

[1:15:03] Voice 7: So, what's my co-trustee's thought on reducing any of those, particularly the variants?

[1:15:11] Voice 11: Well, you know, you raise a good point because, I mean, we're going to be talking

[1:15:15] Voice 11: further in this meeting about, I guess it's bylaw 122, we're talking about

[1:15:23] Voice 11: the size of houses and as we try to point out to many people, there's always an opportunity

[1:15:28] Voice 11: for a variance on things i i don't i i'm um i really on one hand given that the capital

[1:15:36] Voice 11: investments that people are willing to make when they build a house in the you know hundreds of

[1:15:42] Voice 11: thousands of dollars the amount of the development variance permit in the scale of things is not high

[1:15:48] Voice 11: it's 1900 so you know what i mean i guess you want to if you feel strongly you've got a rational

[1:15:57] Voice 11: rational point of a rational reason for wanting to vary it and you believe in it strongly enough

[1:16:02] Voice 11: and you come forward with something that makes sense then nineteen hundred dollars actually is

[1:16:06] Voice 11: you know it's it's it's very fair and when i think back if there and maybe robert you can

[1:16:12] Voice 11: speak to this for a minute so let's just say in a hypothetical scenario um um for all the all the

[1:16:19] Voice 11: logical reasons that we presented so far we've got a 20 foot side yard setback somebody wants

[1:16:24] Voice 11: wants to vary it to something less say say 15 there's going to be there's going to be a report

[1:16:29] Voice 11: that's going to be prepared is there there's going to be some time right

[1:16:33] Voice 5: yeah just like what you saw

[1:16:35] Voice 5: this morning with the temporary use permit right permits drafted you know it's the same process

[1:16:40] Voice 5: right the person makes the application they have to prepare all their plans right you know it gets

[1:16:44] Voice 5: assigned the planner talks to the applicant does a site visit reviews it prepares the notice

[1:16:51] Voice 5: prepares the permit we send out the notice on the permit circulate it then does the staff report and

[1:16:57] Voice 5: then takes it to the to to an ltc meeting well

[1:17:00] Voice 11: when you put it that way and i think um you know

[1:17:03] Voice 11: again if we do believe that that this is fee should be to the greatest extent possible board

[1:17:09] Voice 11: by the applicant then i'm i would not want to change that seat i think it needs to stay where

[1:17:13] Voice 11: it is yep

[1:17:14] Voice 7: fair enough so i'll move that to south bender island local trust committee bylaw one two

[1:17:18] Voice 7: Is there a second?

[1:17:24] Trustee Patrick: Seconded by Trustee Thorne.

[1:17:25] Trustee Patrick: Any discussion?

[1:17:27] Trustee Patrick: I'll call the vote.

[1:17:28] Trustee Patrick: All those in favor?

[1:17:29] Trustee Patrick: And that's carried.

[1:17:32] Trustee Patrick: And we have one final one.

[1:17:33] Voice 7: And the South Bender Island Local Trust Committee By-law 124 is cited as the South Bender Island

[1:17:38] Voice 7: Local Trust Committee Fee By-law 124 before Secretary of the Islands Trust for approval

[1:17:43] Voice 7: by the executive committee.

[1:17:45] Trustee Patrick: Is there a second?

[1:17:47] Trustee Patrick: Seconded by Trustee Thorne.

[1:17:48] Trustee Patrick: Any discussion?

[1:17:49] Trustee Patrick: Seconded by Trustee Thorne.

[1:17:49] Trustee Patrick: call the vote all those in favor and that's carried all right so thank you so just to let

[1:17:55] Trustee Patrick: people know uh this will now has to go to the executive committee if they approve it it comes

[1:18:00] Trustee Patrick: back for adoption so that it's there's still one more time that it comes to this committee

[1:18:06] Trustee Patrick: so thank you uh trustees uh for this work and uh in the and i think it's important for all of us

[1:18:11] Trustee Patrick: to monitor and look and be aware of the fees is uh what's out there and uh and share what you're

[1:18:16] Trustee Patrick: hearing uh with the particularly the regional planning committee um to make sure that we keep

[1:18:21] Trustee Patrick: this top of mind going forward in the future so thank you um so 13.2 is the land use bylaw

[1:18:29] Trustee Patrick: amendments project i'm happy to see planner stockville here who will give us the report

[1:18:33] Trustee Patrick: that's on page 72 of the agenda package planner stockville thank

[1:18:37] Voice 2: you chair patrick

[1:18:40] Voice 2: the staff report presents the draft bylaw for the land use bylaw amendments project

[1:18:46] Voice 2: at the last meeting the ltc requested staff to make some amendments to that draft bylaw

[1:18:52] Voice 2: that was removing um any type or the stair stairways regulations to remove the shipping

[1:18:59] Voice 2: containers from the draft bylaw and also to create a second set of regulations for setback

[1:19:05] Voice 2: floor area and also set back from the natural boundary of the sea for for new construction

[1:19:12] Voice 2: as I mentioned to the LTC in the email there were actually a number of small errors in that

[1:19:18] Voice 2: in draft 122 the draft 122 bylaws I just want to mention and I'm going to bring that up on

[1:19:26] Voice 2: the screen here just to point it out to those community members at home so in draft bylaw

[1:19:33] Voice 2: number 122 on page 178. There was a reference to bylaw 123 and that should actually be 122.

[1:19:45] Voice 2: There was another error where it was referencing 123 that should be 122 and in relation to a new

[1:19:53] Voice 2: regulation stating a increase to the setback from the interior and exterior lot line for a dwelling

[1:20:01] Voice 2: and cottage that should actually be for new dwelling and cottages and for I've actually

[1:20:09] Voice 2: included those amendments in a little draft markup here that I have on the screen and so if the LTC

[1:20:16] Voice 2: were to adopt the draft bylaw with those amendments what it would look like for the

[1:20:23] Voice 2: rural residential zone is there would be a set of maximum floor area regulations for legal dwelling

[1:20:30] Voice 2: units that are currently constructed and those are the same numbers as in the land use by-law

[1:20:36] Voice 2: currently. There would be a second set of maximum floor area regulations for new dwellings constructed

[1:20:45] Voice 2: after the adoption of by-law 122. This is we're just actually removing the maximum floor area

[1:20:55] Voice 2: of a cottage from the definition of cottage and actually putting it into the RR zone

[1:21:00] Voice 2: And here for the setbacks for the interior and exterior lot lines, those would remain the same for dwellings and cottages that are existing, but for all new dwelling and cottage, all new dwelling and cottages constructed after the date of adoption, there would be a more restrictive setback from the interior and exterior lot line and that would be six meters.

[1:21:23] Voice 2: So I just wanted to make those clarifications as it wasn't, there was a few areas, errors in the

[1:21:30] Voice 2: draft bylaw that was attached to the staff report. I'm going to stop sharing the screen and I can

[1:21:35] Voice 2: bring that up in just a moment. A couple other points I just wanted to quickly make is we did

[1:21:41] Voice 2: receive referral back from the ALC and they did recommend a few amendments and that's found on

[1:21:47] Voice 2: table three in the staff report and staff have made the recommendation to include those amendments

[1:21:53] Voice 2: The timeline for this project, we're actually on on schedule with potentially giving first reading of the draft by law today, and with the hope of holding a CIM and public hearing when we can meet in person again and that would be hopefully at the, the mail TC meeting.

[1:22:14] Voice 2: So, staff is making a few recommendations, which is found on page 72 of the staff report.

[1:22:21] Voice 2: The first, as I mentioned, is incorporating those amendments the ALC has recommended.

[1:22:26] Voice 2: I've also circulated a draft motion to the LTC, and that's to make the corrections or

[1:22:34] Voice 2: clear up those errors in draft by-law 122, when fortunately I referenced the wrong by-law

[1:22:39] Voice 2: numbers so it should be referring to 122 instead of 123 and also adding that blurb that they knew

[1:22:47] Voice 2: more restrictive setbacks from the interior and exterior lot line is actually just for

[1:22:51] Voice 2: new construction and then for the LTC's consideration the LTC could give first

[1:22:56] Voice 2: reading for this bylaw and also attached is the islands trust policy statement checklist

[1:23:03] Voice 2: list and staff has agreed that the draft bylaw is in compliance with that. And there's another

[1:23:12] Voice 2: list of alternatives that the LTC can consider and those are on page 77 of the agenda. And I'm

[1:23:19] Voice 2: happy to answer any questions the LTC may have and happy to bring up the PDFs that I showed earlier

[1:23:23] Voice 2: as well.

[1:23:25] Trustee Patrick: All right, trustees, over to you. That's a lot of information. Thank you very much, Kim.

[1:23:29] Trustee Patrick: Kim, go ahead, trustee Thorne.

[1:23:31] Voice 11: Yeah, just thank you, Kim.

[1:23:35] Voice 11: Planner Stockwell.

[1:23:40] Voice 11: Just on the, you've got a table three here

[1:23:46] Voice 11: relating on page 74 and 75 relating to your correspondence

[1:23:50] Voice 11: with the ALC, just a little more curious I suppose

[1:23:58] Voice 11: pose on the first item in the table where we talked about agri-tourism accommodation

[1:24:09] Voice 11: and the fact that it's for the purpose of accommodating commercial guests within a

[1:24:15] Voice 11: specific structure on a specific portion of a lot. Just trying to understand how that reconciles with

[1:24:23] Voice 11: how does that relate or doesn't it to the STVR regulations that we have in place?

[1:24:30] Voice 2: So agritourist accommodation, that would be specific for those properties that are in the ALR, the Agricultural Land Reserve.

[1:24:47] Voice 2: And for, I actually would have to double check if the agricultural zone actually, well, the land use bylaw currently does not permit short term vacation rentals at all, not in the agricultural zone, the ALR, or any zone.

[1:25:05] Voice 2: so this is a permitted use by the ALC and so it's one of those uses that I would have to clarify

[1:25:15] Voice 2: that a local government must permit but can also restrict in some sort of way so that's what the

[1:25:22] Voice 2: LTC is doing here and Robert may be able to.

[1:25:25] Voice 5: Agritourist accommodation I think the local

[1:25:29] Voice 5: government can just not permit it outright they don't have to it doesn't it's not permitted it's

[1:25:34] Voice 5: It's agritourism, where it's considered a farm use but can be regulated.

[1:25:40] Voice 5: So, agritourism is like, you know, someone coming to the farm and participating in some sort of farming-related activity.

[1:25:47] Voice 11: So, if we did, so right now, somebody in a rural residential zone can make an application to have an SDR.

[1:25:57] Voice 11: We know there's a TUP process for that.

[1:26:02] Voice 11: conceivably would it be the same thing where if we were to move forward with the ALC comments

[1:26:08] Voice 11: or definitions here that the ALC that lands zoned agricultural would be eligible for consideration

[1:26:18] Voice 11: under a TUP but they would still have to have a TUP to allow that actually to exist am I right

[1:26:23] Voice 11: on that or am I you

[1:26:25] Voice 5: got a couple options I think one is you can allow agritourist accommodation

[1:26:28] Voice 5: in the ALR based on the ALC's guidelines

[1:26:32] Voice 5: and incorporate those into the land use bylaw.

[1:26:35] Voice 5: Or you can say no agritourist accommodation

[1:26:38] Voice 5: as you don't permit it outright.

[1:26:41] Voice 5: People could still apply for a temporary use permit

[1:26:44] Voice 5: for agritourist accommodation.

[1:26:47] Voice 7: If I'm not mistaken,

[1:26:49] Voice 7: the agritourist accommodation has to be related directly

[1:26:54] Voice 7: to the operation of the farm.

[1:26:56] Voice 7: So if someone's not operating a farm,

[1:26:59] Voice 7: you don't you can't invite agritourists to stay that's right they have to sort of show up and

[1:27:04] Voice 7: participate in the farming activity yeah yeah so i i think i think there's a severe restriction

[1:27:11] Voice 7: currently on south bender island given the number of uh operating farms so

[1:27:19] Voice 11: how would that work then

[1:27:20] Voice 11: so um um so somebody that has land that's stone agricultural and they have a working farm there's

[1:27:28] Voice 11: a few people i can think of i mean i guess you know we had conversations with um you know with

[1:27:34] Voice 11: with diane and others some time ago and maybe that's a different topic they were looking for

[1:27:39] Voice 11: housing for farm workers so maybe maybe you know maybe that's a separate thing but let's just use

[1:27:44] Voice 11: an example like that where they wanted to have people that could come maybe during hayne season

[1:27:49] Voice 11: or something like that would this be would this be the kind of would my example be the kind of

[1:27:55] Voice 11: thing where agritourism would be someone a situation where somebody might come for a couple

[1:28:00] Voice 11: of weeks stay in a in a in a in a structure that was able to accommodate their their their residency

[1:28:07] Voice 11: and um but it would be because agritourism doesn't to me imply i'm living there 12 months of the year

[1:28:15] Voice 11: it it implies that i'm there for a while so i'm just trying to understand you know trying to

[1:28:20] Voice 11: understand what what it means and and a hypothetical example of what how it might be

[1:28:25] Voice 11: used yeah

[1:28:26] Voice 5: it's a it's commercial use so it's short-term accommodation right they

[1:28:30] Voice 11: generally

[1:28:31] Voice 5: would be staying for less than 30 days at a time um they're supposed to be like trustee

[1:28:37] Voice 5: right says supposed to be connected to the farm use um it's not supposed to be completely divorced

[1:28:42] Voice 5: from the farm um and i'm trying to think if there were examples of any that you might be familiar

[1:28:49] Voice 5: familiar with um clam bay farm on north pender used to have

[1:28:53] Voice 5: some agritourist accommodation and

[1:28:55] Voice 5: those little converted converted buildings um other than that i can't i can't think of any

[1:29:02] Voice 5: that's been active on the penders so you know it's it's a pretty niche kind of activity the

[1:29:09] Voice 5: alc has kind of ranged reined it in a bit in the last decade or so um you know originally it was a

[1:29:16] Voice 5: bit more less less say less restrictive than it is now and they ran into some issues where it was

[1:29:23] Voice 5: more accommodation and less agri no kidding and

[1:29:28] Voice 2: the agri-tourist accommodation must be accessory

[1:29:31] Voice 2: to the act of agri-tourism activity and there

[1:29:35] Voice 2: is a list of activities that are classified as

[1:29:38] Voice 2: agri-tourism through the ALC and they're quite restrictive and to be frank I'd be surprised if

[1:29:45] Voice 2: if there'd be these types of agritourism on South Pender.

[1:29:49] Voice 2: I mean, currently I don't believe so, but for an example,

[1:29:52] Voice 2: some of these agritourism activities

[1:29:54] Voice 2: that are specified in section 12

[1:29:57] Voice 2: of the use regulation for the LLC.

[1:30:00] Voice 2: a tour of the farm, corn mazes, cart sleigh and tractor rides, and so forth. Agricultural

[1:30:08] Voice 2: heritage exhibitions. So perhaps those activities could be a proposal for a farm on South Pender in

[1:30:15] Voice 2: the future, but there are very limited activities that are permitted under that umbrella of

[1:30:23] Voice 2: agritourism.

[1:30:23] Voice 5: Yeah, so for agritourist accommodation, really for the local trust committee, it's a

[1:30:28] Voice 5: a decision about whether you want to permit it

[1:30:30] Voice 5: in the bylaw and then

[1:30:32] Voice 5: rely on the ALC's

[1:30:34] Voice 5: rather sort of strict

[1:30:36] Voice 5: prescriptions and regulations

[1:30:37] Voice 5: around it or

[1:30:40] Voice 5: just not permit it and

[1:30:42] Voice 5: then it wouldn't. The only way it could

[1:30:43] Voice 5: occur is through either a rezoning

[1:30:45] Voice 5: or a temporary use permit.

[1:30:47] Voice 11: I mean, I guess I'd be

[1:30:49] Voice 11: wanting to hear what my colleagues have to say, but

[1:30:51] Voice 11: I mean, it's something I haven't

[1:30:53] Voice 11: really put my mind around before until

[1:30:55] Voice 11: just saw this in the report. I

[1:30:58] Voice 11: curious to i mean can we can we park this one item for the time you know i'd be curious to

[1:31:02] Voice 11: to hear what uh you know um barbara has to say or or diane or some of the other people to

[1:31:11] Voice 11: get their take on it well

[1:31:14] Voice 7: i think it would take um it's going to take a significant amount of

[1:31:18] Voice 7: investment in order to build the accommodation to start with and i think if uh if any of our

[1:31:22] Voice 7: local farmers if i read them correctly if they have any money to spend on that

[1:31:26] Voice 7: accommodation is going to be to farm help it's not going to be to uh for part-time tourists well

[1:31:32] Voice 7: that's what i

[1:31:32] Voice 7: was getting at right like i don't

[1:31:33] Voice 7: understand the thing about about if you if you

[1:31:36] Voice 7: feel more comfortable then just just just remove it and

[1:31:40] Trustee Patrick: this this is first reading this is not a

[1:31:42] Trustee Patrick: you know permanent decision that we're making here so this is first

[1:31:45] Trustee Patrick: reading so we could either

[1:31:46] Voice 13: leave

[1:31:46] Trustee Patrick: it or uh and ask specifically the the farm farm owners that you're would like to hear from

[1:31:54] Trustee Patrick: I

[1:31:55] Voice 11: personally would leave it and ask people if they feel like there's if there's any feasible

[1:32:01] Voice 11: take up on it I think I agree with Steve probably it's pretty out there but would be nice to know

[1:32:09] Voice 11: before I try to pretend I knew what their thoughts were yeah all

[1:32:15] Trustee Patrick: right then so leave it for now and

[1:32:17] Trustee Patrick: then ask for attention as we go through the yeah community information meetings what

[1:32:24] Voice 11: one of the

[1:32:24] Voice 11: things and i don't know you know i mean i guess the last meeting that we had a conversation on

[1:32:29] Voice 11: this was back i guess it would have been in september when i first brought forward um some

[1:32:35] Voice 11: proposed house sizes um but i i don't want to get too far down the road of my thoughts without you

[1:32:43] Voice 11: know making sure the speed has a chance to to point his out um maybe i'll just say something

[1:32:48] Voice 11: at the outset because there was um uh you know the setback so we're talking about setbacks talking

[1:32:55] Voice 11: talking about house size and you know i know um we've had both donna and gordy speak on this topic

[1:33:03] Voice 11: this morning um and i mean just just i mean just for the record we've been talking about

[1:33:11] Voice 11: the topic of side yards setbacks for quite a while we had back when we were all able to get

[1:33:17] Voice 11: together in august we had a community information meeting at the fire hall we it's come up a few

[1:33:21] Voice 11: times in special meetings on saturdays that have followed that i thought there was actually fairly

[1:33:26] Voice 11: fairly good head nodding in our in our in the meetings that we did have with people

[1:33:32] Voice 11: about the virtues of a greater side yard setback um certainly talking to planners talking to

[1:33:42] Voice 11: architects it's it's one of the ways that that could go a long ways to uh to upholding our goals

[1:33:50] Voice 11: of our ocp goals of our rural character by creating more horizontal separation between

[1:33:55] Voice 11: properties um and um you know 10 feet is a pretty and i'd love to hear your thoughts on this robert

[1:34:06] Voice 11: but 10 feet on on on rural properties is a pretty small setback um um in in this context um again

[1:34:15] Voice 11: there could always be variances to these things but um but i'm not sure to gordon's point that

[1:34:21] Voice 11: that it's really served us well.

[1:34:22] Voice 11: I know even at the last public meeting,

[1:34:25] Voice 11: we heard from one of our residents lamenting the fact

[1:34:29] Voice 11: that a house that's currently under construction

[1:34:32] Voice 11: adjacent to them is located as close as it is.

[1:34:35] Voice 11: And that resident was wishing

[1:34:38] Voice 11: that there was greater setbacks on the side yard.

[1:34:42] Voice 11: So I do think that there is a lot of logic in it.

[1:34:48] Voice 11: And again, this is just my thinking

[1:34:50] Voice 11: but hearing from planners and architects and others that think about this all the time the

[1:34:54] Voice 11: other thing too just why why why we were looking at habitable structures versus non-habitable

[1:34:59] Voice 11: structures in my mind there was two reasons for it one was cottages and houses have uh

[1:35:07] Voice 11: under the bylaw or have a ridge height of 30 feet whereas um chicken coops wood sheds they have a

[1:35:15] Voice 11: lower ridge height and secondly people aren't typically living in their woodshed and so you

[1:35:20] Voice 11: know in terms of trying to create um you know you're not creating as much noise typically

[1:35:26] Voice 11: on an ongoing basis in a woodshed or chicken coop and so we're trying to think about privacy and

[1:35:31] Voice 11: separation between neighbors there's more sense to having keeping the 10 foot for for those

[1:35:37] Voice 11: structures and and going to the 20 foot for the other um uh the other thing i'll make a point and

[1:35:44] Voice 11: And again, it comes back to this issue about having two tables.

[1:35:48] Voice 11: And I know Gordy's comments that he sent to us a couple of days ago had raised the issue that that that I guess when we last spoke about this, there didn't seem to be anything that would deal with there.

[1:36:05] Voice 11: At that time, there'd be nothing proposed to deal with the perception or the concern that some might have about legal non-conforming if the setback went to 20 feet instead of 10.

[1:36:16] Voice 11: So I think the language that was in the red line markup that you sent out today, Kim, is helpful in terms of confirming the fact that it's for new buildings only.

[1:36:29] Voice 11: The one thing that I do have a concern with two tables and is so, and I, again, want to hear from Steve, but I want to at least get this off my chest, is that the way, I'd like to just want to know the planner's thoughts on this, but you get a situation where somebody's got a, they've built a house, they're on, they've got a property that's one acre or less than one acre.

[1:37:01] Voice 11: going to make it simple so it's less than one acre under the current bylaw they can build a house up

[1:37:05] Voice 11: to 3,800 square feet they've currently got a house that's 2,000 square feet my intent when I was

[1:37:13] Voice 11: talking about this and was was not to create a loophole so that somebody that's got a 2,000

[1:37:18] Voice 11: square foot house is basically now covered under the old bylaw so that the future they could add

[1:37:26] Voice 11: add another 1800 square feet onto the house at a future point in time.

[1:37:30] Voice 11: And, you know, that to me is feeding the intent.

[1:37:33] Voice 11: And I can see in the long run, there would be, you know, as,

[1:37:37] Voice 11: as more as, as, as properties get older, we see this in other places.

[1:37:41] Voice 11: I've seen it in many places where there's a,

[1:37:43] Voice 11: it's a bit of a loophole and you, you,

[1:37:45] Voice 11: you retain the smallest amount of the old structure so that you can qualify

[1:37:49] Voice 11: for the grandfather provisions and then you build a new house.

[1:37:52] Voice 11: And so to me, it, it, it doesn't really work.

[1:37:55] Voice 11: So I'd like, and again, I'll shut up now and let Steve talk, but I'd like to maybe look at another way of giving people the assurances around, giving them the comfort, if you will, around how to make sure that any house right now, both in terms of its size and its setback, doesn't put them into a legal non-conforming status.

[1:38:21] Voice 11: that is so we'd have a remedy or a cure for that I'd like to look at another way of doing that

[1:38:26] Voice 11: other than the table and so anyhow I'll park it for now just I'm sure other people want to speak

[1:38:32] Voice 11: Steve sorry all

[1:38:35] Voice 12: right um sure lots of

[1:38:37] Voice 12: thinking there go ahead

[1:38:38] Trustee Patrick: Steve well

[1:38:41] Voice 7: I I think Cam was

[1:38:43] Voice 7: absolutely correct uh the intention of this bylaw and any amendments to follow was to um

[1:38:49] Voice 7: should apply to all new construction on all lots,

[1:38:53] Voice 7: not just on vacant properties.

[1:38:54] Voice 7: And so I'm not comfortable and frankly, in good conscience,

[1:39:01] Voice 7: I really have trouble imposing restrictions

[1:39:04] Voice 7: on vacant properties that I'm not prepared

[1:39:06] Voice 7: to have imposed on my own.

[1:39:07] Voice 7: And so for that reason alone,

[1:39:09] Voice 7: I can't support this amendment.

[1:39:11] Voice 7: It's just not right for me.

[1:39:14] Voice 7: The concern of those who believe that legal nonconforming

[1:39:19] Voice 7: designations are detrimental to their interests either through insurance or assessment has not

[1:39:24] Voice 7: been proven to my satisfaction and frankly i'm not prepared to cater to an unfounded fear

[1:39:29] Voice 7: there will as we have noted the assurance is provided that any existing properties will not

[1:39:36] Voice 7: be penalized should any change or in a bylaw affect the property and i think that's as much

[1:39:43] Voice 7: as we can do for that. I support the idea of limiting residential floor area for any number

[1:39:51] Voice 7: of reasons. I certainly think that a smaller footprint generally reduces site disturbance

[1:39:58] Voice 7: and the requirement to clear native vegetation and that has a lot to do with the environmental

[1:40:04] Voice 7: and ecology protection. I think that large homes abound in urban areas, and they're becoming more

[1:40:14] Voice 7: common in rural areas. I think that is to the detriment of the character of rural areas.

[1:40:19] Voice 7: If we value our present character, then we have to maintain as much as we have left by keeping

[1:40:26] Voice 7: homes reasonably sized, more in proportion to what exists, and to avoid the massing of structures.

[1:40:33] Voice 7: And I think that speaks entirely to the character of the island as it is just right now.

[1:40:38] Voice 7: So those people saying that we like things the way they are, this is one way that we can achieve that goal that they seem so passionate about.

[1:40:47] Voice 7: Assessments are generally based on floor area.

[1:40:50] Voice 7: So if we want to have any influence on holding assessments to a level where people can afford to stay in their own homes because those assessments are beginning to push people out of their homes simply through the cost of taxation,

[1:41:01] Voice 7: then I think this is probably one of the very few options a trust committee can take

[1:41:06] Voice 7: in order to achieve any direction in that goal. We are all concerned about forest fires.

[1:41:13] Voice 7: The new building code does provide an equation for the amount of water that is required to put

[1:41:19] Voice 7: out a fire on a new structure of any specific size. And with water supply being an ever-present

[1:41:28] Voice 7: in question due to climate change such as last summer it seems prudent to keep homes within

[1:41:33] Voice 7: a reasonable footprint so that doesn't become such a huge issue with climate change

[1:41:43] Voice 7: we've called in the trust council for the protection of endangered cdf coastal douglas

[1:41:50] Voice 7: fir ecosystems and in order to do that it seems that the common practice is to keep them as

[1:41:57] Voice 7: as contiguous as possible, and I think overdeveloped properties certainly do not contribute to this

[1:42:03] Voice 7: policy. The use of a home, and here's the kicker, as an asset or an investment, is the primary cause

[1:42:11] Voice 7: of property values rising to unprecedented levels, and the consequences of that are forcing

[1:42:17] Voice 7: many people, particularly young working people, out of their home, and at worst, it's creating

[1:42:22] Voice 7: homelessness everywhere. This affects the very fabric of our community and anything that we can

[1:42:27] Voice 7: do to slow this trend benefits the next generation and ensures we will have a workforce that can live

[1:42:33] Voice 7: in our community. If we can't do that, someone needs to explain to me what the purpose of a

[1:42:39] Voice 7: community is if we have people that cannot afford to live in it. So if I look at the average three

[1:42:46] Voice 7: bedroom home, and I've said this in earlier meetings, in the 1990s was around 1,980 square

[1:42:52] Voice 7: feet. And then a few years ago, the latest data, that trend has risen upward or has gone up to

[1:43:00] Voice 7: about 2,300. And for an example, when you get off the ferry on your way to Vancouver and you drive

[1:43:06] Voice 7: by that, I guess it's not Muscombe, the Swanson Band development known as Swanson Landing,

[1:43:14] Voice 7: you'll see any number, a huge number of houses and townhouses going up. And those are basically

[1:43:20] Voice 7: all three bedroom and they average around 2200 square feet.

[1:43:23] Voice 7: So that gives you some idea of the size of 2200 square feet.

[1:43:27] Voice 7: So I think that if we're going to look at reducing

[1:43:32] Voice 7: house size, I think it has to apply to all zones,

[1:43:36] Voice 7: not just residential zones.

[1:43:39] Voice 7: I think that the current table is a little confusing

[1:43:44] Voice 7: and I'd like to see it that's simplified.

[1:43:47] Voice 7: So let me just throw out a different idea.

[1:43:51] Voice 7: If we switch over to hectares, which is the measurement being used in governments nowadays,

[1:43:58] Voice 7: if we look at a half hectare lot, which is a 1.25, one and a quarter acre lot,

[1:44:04] Voice 7: and reduce the house maximum house size to 2,500 feet, there would be 17 homes that are larger

[1:44:12] Voice 7: than that. If we look at a one hectare or a 2.47 acre or less property and went to a maximum of

[1:44:23] Voice 7: 3,000 square feet as a maximum, there would be four larger homes. Actually, that might be five

[1:44:32] Voice 7: or six. I think I eliminated some because they weren't in the rural residential zone.

[1:44:36] Voice 7: But any property larger than one hectare that moved to a total maximum of 3,500 square feet, it would affect only five larger homes.

[1:44:49] Voice 7: So that's a total of, what, 24 homes out of over 200.

[1:44:54] Voice 7: And if people are concerned about a legal non-conforming

[1:45:00] Voice 7: status, it wouldn't be difficult for us to have a schedule

[1:45:04] Voice 7: printed up that would essentially list those properties

[1:45:09] Voice 7: and those house sizes and make them legal

[1:45:12] Voice 7: according to our zoning bylaw.

[1:45:14] Voice 7: So I think I'd like to throw that on the table

[1:45:19] Voice 7: for discussion.

[1:45:22] Voice 7: I'd also like to see the floor area measurement

[1:45:24] Voice 7: be taken from the interior walls.

[1:45:27] Voice 7: We spoke about earlier,

[1:45:28] Voice 7: so I think that should stay on the table.

[1:45:32] Voice 7: As far as setbacks are concerned, on page 73,

[1:45:37] Voice 7: I think that the pump and utility house

[1:45:41] Voice 7: should be exempted from front setbacks and zones.

[1:45:45] Voice 7: I think in most cases,

[1:45:49] Voice 7: wells now are all covered at the site without a building.

[1:45:54] Voice 7: building and they have a submersible pump in there to prevent damage and freezing and that

[1:46:00] Voice 7: anything that has to be done as far as treatment can be pumped to another accessory building that

[1:46:06] Voice 7: I don't want to see that if we're going to put up a 50-foot setback then I think it's pointless to

[1:46:11] Voice 7: start allowing little shacks going up all along the coastline. I think the height restriction

[1:46:18] Voice 7: can be the same height that we have now but it should be above natural grade and not

[1:46:22] Voice 7: an average. That will hinder what we have seen of people building on ridges where we

[1:46:30] Voice 7: see three-story buildings and impacts the character of the house, particularly from

[1:46:36] Voice 7: the foreshore. I think we have to consider some sort of distance between structures in order to

[1:46:45] Voice 7: avoid massing in order to prevent or to deal with and protect the character of the island.

[1:46:51] Voice 7: I know that the fire department has reviewed and has, I guess, I'm not sure that the name of the fire regulations, but I believe that they have some distance and I think we should take a look at those and make sure that our bylaws match those, just to make sure that we're not stepping on anybody's toes.

[1:47:13] Voice 7: those setbacks. I think that the 20 foot side setbacks and the 50 waterfront is reasonable

[1:47:20] Voice 7: and to include accessory buildings other than cottages. I think cottages and dwellings should

[1:47:26] Voice 7: be held to the new restrictions. And again, if there's any structures that are in that area

[1:47:32] Voice 7: currently, a schedule can be drawn and that legal non-conforming status can be avoided.

[1:47:38] Voice 7: uh so uh i'll leave it at that that's a mouthful to get all those amendments sorry

[1:47:49] Voice 7: those

[1:47:50] Trustee Patrick: aren't those that was a

[1:47:53] Trustee Patrick: conversation i

[1:47:54] Voice 7: will write them down and send them to you

[1:47:56] Trustee Patrick: that we were having here um i could i you were pump houses uh my experience right now is most

[1:48:06] Trustee Patrick: most pump houses, the main reason why they're a house is to contain a cistern as a, you know,

[1:48:15] Trustee Patrick: smart way to manage your well. So that, so while it might not need equipment, it needs the cistern

[1:48:24] Trustee Patrick: to be housed. So there's not an outdoor tank.

[1:48:29] Voice 7: Well, yes. But certainly if it's a cistern or

[1:48:33] Voice 7: or a treatment plant, the water can be pumped,

[1:48:36] Voice 7: piped to it rather than have it over the well.

[1:48:40] Voice 7: I don't think there's that many wells

[1:48:41] Voice 7: along the waterfront because of the threat of salt intrusion.

[1:48:47] Voice 11: Can I ask a question for clarification on that one?

[1:48:52] Voice 11: Like is your proposal applying to waterfront only

[1:48:54] Voice 11: because I know, I mean,

[1:48:56] Voice 11: first of all-

[1:48:57] Voice 7: Because it's a 50 foot water,

[1:48:59] Voice 7: it's a 50 foot setback along the waterfront.

[1:49:01] Voice 12: So it wouldn't apply to any other interior property.

[1:49:10] Voice 12: Okay. Well,

[1:49:11] Voice 11: somebody has, you know, so in a pump house, I believe maximum size of a pump is 32 square feet. And so if somebody's, I mean, I guess, you know, wells are where, you know, they are based on where we find water.

[1:49:30] Voice 11: So if somebody happens to put a well in, found water 40 feet from the water line, but they want to have filtration and UV lighting and other such things in a structure above the well, I guess that would be, they couldn't do that.

[1:49:58] Voice 11: Well,

[1:50:00] Voice 7: in my experiences of building on the island, most cases where you're going to have either a cistern or you're going to have filtration or you're going to have some sort of treatment plant, that is usually going to incorporate more space than a 32-square-foot building.

[1:50:21] Voice 7: So most of the times the well is drilled, the pump goes down the well and the pipe goes off either to a garage mechanical room in the house or to an accessory building somewhere else on the property.

[1:50:36] Voice 7: That's a little more accessible and easier to deal with and has a lot more room to work and maintain on.

[1:50:44] Voice 12: And I guess your idea on this is, again,

[1:50:53] Voice 11: so you're not thinking about interior property, whether it's Canal Road, Spalding Road, what have you.

[1:50:59] Voice 11: So if somebody's situated their well, and let's say their cistern isn't, maybe it's not right beside, but maybe their cistern is within the 25-foot front yard setback.

[1:51:17] Voice 11: What you're proposing doesn't apply to those things.

[1:51:20] Voice 11: No, it's just to the one. And you're, I guess what I'm trying to understand is what the reason for making this recommendation is to protect the sort of the public realm along the beach. Is that the, the, no,

[1:51:34] Voice 7: it's, it's a sense if we're going to move structures back 50 feet, then my suggestion is we move structures back 50 feet.

[1:51:41] Voice 7: we don't start making exemptions i mean we have fences exemption but i mean i if if i think of

[1:51:48] Voice 7: the number of properties uh that are waterfront on pender island i don't know too many of them

[1:51:54] Voice 7: that have a pump house in front of their house in front of their in front of their view so i don't

[1:51:59] Voice 7: think it's going to impact a lot of people and as i said most of the people that i've built for on

[1:52:04] Voice 7: waterfront, certainly you're not going to have a pump house along their waterfront that's somewhere

[1:52:12] Voice 7: in an accessory building that's larger and they can utilize for A for more purposes and gives them

[1:52:17] Voice 7: more room to put their equipment. Pressure tanks, I mean if you think about a 38 basically it's a

[1:52:25] Voice 7: 32 square feet it's essentially a sheet of plywood and put a pressure tank in there and some pipes

[1:52:33] Voice 7: and some stuff hanging off the wall and you don't have much room in there and

[1:52:40] Voice 11: it's not going to

[1:52:40] Voice 11: store much water. Right I would think the water would be below but I get your point. I guess the

[1:52:48] Voice 11: other thing here too the thing that seems to be a fixation for lots of people is anytime we start

[1:52:58] Voice 11: talking about any of this stuff it's about the whole thing of well legal non-conformity we can

[1:53:03] Voice 11: we can set aside for a minute whether that's maybe a little bit of hysteria or whether it's a truism

[1:53:08] Voice 11: but either way i think we've made it at least i've made it clear that whatever changes that

[1:53:16] Voice 11: may come about as a result of um this bylaw uh if it's passed is that we would take

[1:53:22] Voice 11: we would we would give everybody the opportunity to to be able to ensure that they won't leave

[1:53:27] Voice 11: a lot before me and i'm assuming the same they would apply in a situation like this

[1:53:30] Voice 11: absolutely yeah

[1:53:31] Voice 7: it's an accessory building so any accessory building that would be within the

[1:53:36] Voice 7: current setback would be provided with that option obviously yeah for sure i'm not trying

[1:53:42] Voice 7: to penalize people yeah and

[1:53:44] Voice 11: so you're and and also your thing about the i mean i guess i mean i

[1:53:50] Voice 11: metric i mean it's funny you know we you know we've had the metric system around since whatever

[1:53:57] Voice 11: 1974 but a lot of us that build you know we still talk square footage we talk inches and feet it's

[1:54:04] Voice 11: a it's we're in this weird weird headspace um maybe people think in hectares i mean i don't

[1:54:10] Voice 11: know maybe i'm aging myself i think in acres but but if if if hectares is truly i mean i guess that

[1:54:17] Voice 11: is a metric term it's what a thousand meters i guess is what it is um then pretty good so far

[1:54:25] Voice 7: it's a conversion it's it's not the measurement it's a conversion that drives me nuts

[1:54:31] Voice 11: so i mean i mean robert kim uh formally when you are putting things in a bylaw are you

[1:54:39] Voice 11: um even though there may be for convenience a reference to acres i guess formally it's

[1:54:45] Voice 11: we we are putting things in our land use bylaw in metric yeah

[1:54:50] Voice 5: the metric is the is the standard

[1:54:53] Voice 5: in the bylaw and usually there's a statement to that effect in the bylaw and that the imperial

[1:54:57] Voice 5: is there for convenience only but with things like this when you're looking at these tables

[1:55:01] Voice 5: um a lot of this is driven the the use of acres for example is driven by the fact that

[1:55:09] Voice 5: a lot of the lot sizes were subdivided before the metric system and so they're based on you

[1:55:14] Voice 5: know a minimum lot size of an acre something like that so or two acres whatever 10 acres right for

[1:55:21] Voice 5: rural zones so there's kind of that baked in um imperial when it comes to acreage anyway the

[1:55:29] Voice 5: imperial imperial system is kind of baked in in that sense and then of course we're dealing with

[1:55:33] Voice 5: buildings um the building industry for the most part still uses imperial so just just i mean i

[1:55:40] Voice 11: don't know whether you can maybe you don't want to speak to it but you know the idea of um i don't

[1:55:46] Voice 11: don't know how many years this idea of what you can do on properties based on less than one acre

[1:55:53] Voice 11: and then um you know one to two two to four four to ten and greater than four greater than ten how

[1:55:58] Voice 11: long is like how did we come up with that i mean gordy called it a bit of a dartboard thing not

[1:56:03] Voice 11: you know i mean it wasn't my dartboard it's been around forever but does anybody can anybody speak

[1:56:10] Voice 11: to how we and like is it what i mean in some senses there's some simplicity what to going to

[1:56:15] Voice 11: a hectare thing except it's a unfortunately a bit of a misfit between what's already baked in in

[1:56:20] Voice 11: terms of how most of the land is being subdivided so you know that's the one thing you know and

[1:56:28] Voice 11: gordy also has made comments about you know he sent us a table the other day about um you know

[1:56:33] Voice 11: percentages and and and you know adjusting things up and down to have some sort of clear gradient

[1:56:39] Voice 11: of house size based on on these aside from that is there is there a reason why we ended up with

[1:56:46] Voice 11: the one to two two to four et cetera in those kind of segments well

[1:56:51] Voice 5: i think you spoke to part of it

[1:56:52] Voice 5: is that sort of the standard where those break points are i think it's sort of a traditional

[1:56:56] Voice 5: minimum lot size or has been a minimum lot size but that that table was come up with you know it

[1:57:02] Voice 5: wasn't necessarily dartboard but it was certainly a lot of you know iteration on the part of the

[1:57:08] Voice 5: trustees of the day to come up with those particular numbers um you know it wasn't it

[1:57:14] Voice 5: It wasn't just pulled out of the air in one meeting,

[1:57:16] Voice 5: but there was, if I recall,

[1:57:18] Voice 5: there was a fair bit of adjustment

[1:57:20] Voice 5: and discussion about the appropriateness

[1:57:24] Voice 5: of the different, of the scale.

[1:57:26] Voice 11: Can we look at something of,

[1:57:29] Voice 11: so let's, assuming that there's some,

[1:57:31] Voice 11: even though there's some, you know,

[1:57:32] Voice 11: in one hand, Steve's idea about going to this,

[1:57:35] Voice 11: Hector's makes, you know, it's beautiful in theory,

[1:57:37] Voice 11: it's got problems given it,

[1:57:38] Voice 11: it's the subdivision of the property.

[1:57:41] Voice 11: Can we, I mean, I guess there's a couple

[1:57:43] Voice 11: of things going on here.

[1:57:44] Voice 11: And, you know, again, if people agree with my point of view, if the LTC would agree with my point of view, I would, whatever we do, I would say, everybody has an opportunity to be fully legal nonconforming.

[1:57:56] Voice 11: So, you know, set aside that for a minute, and then look at maybe, you know, Steve's got some proposals at House Size, which I've got an open ear to, but is there an ability to maybe have less, you know, categories that we have to reference?

[1:58:13] Voice 11: So, you know, you've got a bottom level of, I don't know what you said, Steve, 2,500 or something like that at the lowest end of the scale.

[1:58:22] Voice 11: And I don't know if you said what the highest end of the scale was, but whether there's the ability to have maybe less categories of house size in our land use bylaw.

[1:58:35] Voice 11: and um and again at the end of the day people have the ability should this pass to seek a

[1:58:41] Voice 11: variance to their house size um and then everybody else is fully protected by what they've already

[1:58:46] Voice 11: built is there is there is there an ability to do that or

[1:58:50] Voice 5: yeah sure there's an ability to do it

[1:58:52] Voice 5: it's just you know what that is and if there's a yeah the political will on your guy's part to do

[1:58:58] Voice 5: it

[1:58:58] Voice 7: yeah i think one of the things that always bothered me about the less than one acre and

[1:59:04] Voice 7: one to two acres is we have so many properties that are 0.9, 0.1, 0.1.1, 1.06, 1.19. And to a

[1:59:19] Voice 7: certain degree, if we go with the hectares, half a hectare is 1.25. So we eliminate quite a number

[1:59:27] Voice 7: of properties so it simplifies the range and the differential and it also with we

[1:59:36] Voice 7: go with three sizes instead of going with five so we've essentially got five

[1:59:43] Voice 7: currently and in

[1:59:45] Voice 12: ranges and we simply reduce it to three so in other words

[1:59:53] Voice 12: under that scenario again everybody that's

[1:59:55] Voice 11: built regardless of what they

[1:59:57] Voice 11: built on whether you're calling acres or hectares.

[2:00:00] Voice 11: they're they're they're all locked in they're fine and and then even though lands are already

[2:00:05] Voice 11: subdivided under your scenario if it was um less than less than half less 0.5 of a hectare versus

[2:00:13] Voice 11: up to one hectare and then anything above i think you said one anything greater than one hectare

[2:00:18] Voice 11: fell into a different category then regardless of what things were subdivided to 10 15 20 years ago

[2:00:25] Voice 11: whatever land you bought you'd fall into one of those categories and you would build to that size

[2:00:29] Voice 11: and seek a variance if you wanted to build bigger.

[2:00:34] Voice 12: Pretty much.

[2:00:40] Voice 12: Yeah, this doesn't lock anybody.

[2:00:42] Voice 12: Steve, can you repeat those again?

[2:00:45] Voice 7: No, you're breaking up on my end.

[2:00:47] Voice 7: I think I'm getting the gist of it,

[2:00:50] Voice 7: but if you want to repeat, that would be.

[2:00:52] Voice 11: Just can you repeat the three categories again,

[2:00:54] Voice 11: just so I can write them down?

[2:00:57] Voice 7: Yep, one half hectare or less,

[2:01:01] Voice 7: which is equal to 1.25 acres

[2:01:04] Voice 7: would

[2:01:06] Voice 12: be 2500 feet maximum and currently that would impact 17 homes that

[2:01:18] Voice 7: are larger than 2500

[2:01:19] Voice 7: on a one hectare property or less which is 2.47 acres down to 1.25 acres at a maximum of 3000

[2:01:33] Voice 7: square feet I think would impact perhaps six houses and any property larger than one hectare

[2:01:42] Voice 7: which is four point five no yeah two hectares of two hectares one and a half oh i've lost my

[2:01:52] Voice 7: thing anyway

[2:01:53] Voice 12: anything anything

[2:01:54] Voice 7: larger than one hectare would be a maximum of 3500 square feet

[2:01:58] Voice 7: and that would affect and involve

[2:02:03] Voice 12: five homes that are larger than that all of which would be legal

[2:02:12] Voice 12: all of which would

[2:02:13] Voice 11: be cured by a shuttle to the byline anyhow that's

[2:02:16] Voice 7: right and then those those

[2:02:17] Voice 7: Those houses, which would be less than 30,

[2:02:22] Voice 7: but somewhere between 25 and 30 houses

[2:02:25] Voice 7: could be listed on a schedule

[2:02:30] Voice 7: as legally being-

[2:02:36] Voice 12: Recognized under the bylaw.

[2:02:37] Voice 12: As being legal, yeah, excuse me.

[2:02:42] Voice 11: I mean, one of the things about that,

[2:02:43] Voice 11: and again, I appreciate the work Kim

[2:02:45] Voice 11: put into the second table.

[2:02:46] Voice 11: And I know Gordy, I think,

[2:02:47] Voice 11: and I think it was maybe Gordy and a few others

[2:02:50] Voice 11: that said, let's just do two tables.

[2:02:51] Voice 11: And I think everybody had all the best intentions in that. But I think there's a few things that we discovered that came out of that, including the idea to add more space on after the fact. And the fact that the table in itself, maybe there's still some unclarity around or lack of clarity around setbacks.

[2:03:14] Voice 11: So from what I'm hearing from you and from what I've been thinking in my own mind over the last little while is going back to the idea of the schedule where people, so whatever size we ended up with, if somebody, say, finds that their house is 17 feet from the property line rather than the 20 and they don't want to be legal nonconforming, the idea would be that they would have the opportunity to demonstrate by a survey that they're only 17 feet.

[2:03:46] Voice 11: they could submit that documentation and and same with the house size if it was bigger and that

[2:03:53] Voice 11: would be we would collect all that stuff we give people a particular period of time to submit all

[2:04:00] Voice 11: that information and then everybody thereafter on the site specific basis it would give the pit and

[2:04:06] Voice 11: the and the address and it would say notwithstanding the bylaw these properties are all recognized

[2:04:11] Voice 11: under the land use bylaw as being in conformity or whatever the language would be so that they're

[2:04:15] Voice 11: not legal non-conforming and there would just be a table yep and

[2:04:21] Trustee Patrick: i hear how does staff i see them

[2:04:24] Trustee Patrick: staff thinking has can

[2:04:26] Voice 5: we hear you so so there's two considerations one is um uh do you want to

[2:04:32] Voice 5: pause the bylaw to gather this information incorporate it into the bylaw and then proceed

[2:04:38] Voice 5: or do you want to proceed with the bylaw uh recognizing that those whatever 25 30 houses

[2:04:45] Voice 5: will be made non-conforming legal non-conforming um and then gather that information or give the

[2:04:53] Voice 5: opportunity for people to submit that information we then come back with a subsequent amendment in

[2:04:58] Voice 5: a year whatever i

[2:05:00] Voice 11: would rather do the latter and i certainly know in many cases my own

[2:05:03] Voice 11: business dealings the city will bring in a bylaw and something and then they give a grace period to

[2:05:07] Voice 11: for anybody that that feels like they're eligible to receive the grace period and cure the situation

[2:05:13] Voice 11: are able to do so and i would i would like to move i mean i'd like to move forward on this

[2:05:19] Voice 11: and then but as part of the bylaw um so that it's not just a you know it's not just a

[2:05:27] Voice 11: verbal thing is as part of whatever the bylaw would say is that you know we would insert language

[2:05:32] Voice 11: in there to the fact to this effect that you know we give you and i'm just making throwing a number

[2:05:37] Voice 11: 12 months for people to be able to demonstrate their property would be legalized and then it

[2:05:46] Voice 11: would be recognized. So that way staff aren't also feeling like they've got to get this all

[2:05:52] Voice 11: cranked out in a certain period of time. We would just say, everybody, you've got a year to deal

[2:05:55] Voice 11: with it. And then there would be, I mean, if Steve's numbers are correct, and I've got a

[2:06:01] Voice 11: pretty good table here myself, and I think his numbers are pretty close. But if there was 25

[2:06:07] Voice 11: or 30 homes and i again i don't know about the setback thing maybe there's a few more but

[2:06:11] Voice 11: you know from in terms of uh in terms of the volume of something to put in a table

[2:06:17] Voice 11: it you know would that be something that we could handle within you know people provided the stuff

[2:06:23] Voice 11: in it would hopefully from a workload point of view once you had all the information it wouldn't

[2:06:27] Voice 11: be onerous to be able to tabulate that or consolidate that

[2:06:30] Voice 5: well people provided the

[2:06:31] Voice 5: information not particularly um but like you were saying it should rely for siting at your

[2:06:37] Voice 5: rye on the survey um for flora it should be you know accurate accurate plans from the from the

[2:06:43] Voice 5: building permit right um so to incorporate into the bylaw you could have the provision that was

[2:06:50] Voice 5: talked about earlier which is basically says that all buildings constructed um prior to the date of

[2:06:56] Voice 5: the adoption of this bylaw um i forget the exact wording kim i think it's the one that's in the

[2:07:01] Voice 5: north pender draft now i

[2:07:02] Voice 2: was just going to share that as a good example i could bring it up right

[2:07:05] Voice 2: now yeah that'd

[2:07:07] Voice 5: be great so

[2:07:10] Voice 2: this is the the draft land use bylaw that north pender is working on

[2:07:14] Voice 2: and for north pender ltc uh the lub as it stands right now doesn't have a maximum floor area so

[2:07:20] Voice 2: they're actually uh considering establishing maximum floor area for residential properties

[2:07:26] Voice 2: so these are their new numbers here and this is what robert was speaking to is stating that

[2:07:33] Voice 2: despite these new numbers a lot that contains a legal dwelling constructed prior to the adoption

[2:07:39] Voice 2: of the bylaw that you'd be able to replace the dwelling or a replacement dwelling may be

[2:07:45] Voice 2: constructed or the existing dwelling reconstructed or altered provided the floor area of the

[2:07:50] Voice 2: replacement reconstructed or altered does not exceed the floor area of the dwelling on the lot

[2:07:57] Voice 2: at the time of the adoption of the dwelling of

[2:07:59] Voice 5: the bylaw of

[2:08:00] Voice 2: the bylaw sorry can

[2:08:02] Voice 5: you use

[2:08:02] Voice 5: zoom in a bit on that yes

[2:08:04] Voice 2: i can yeah yeah

[2:08:04] Voice 7: yeah that um that wording so

[2:08:10] Voice 2: what we yeah what we could

[2:08:12] Voice 2: do is add something like this in the uh the land use bylaw for south pender and then what we could

[2:08:18] Voice 2: do is a you know after adoption of this bylaw we could have staff could have an informal list

[2:08:25] Voice 2: at the staff level where we encourage all property owners to supply their um their calculation for

[2:08:33] Voice 2: for floor areas, just so we have it on file,

[2:08:35] Voice 2: then it wouldn't necessarily have to be attached

[2:08:37] Voice 2: as a schedule to the land use bylaw.

[2:08:40] Voice 7: Okay.

[2:08:40] Voice 7: We could have panelists.

[2:08:42] Voice 2: And

[2:08:42] Voice 7: the same wording could be used for a setback.

[2:08:47] Voice 7: Is that correct?

[2:08:47] Voice 7: Yep.

[2:08:48] Voice 7: Yep,

[2:08:48] Voice 2: it could be amended.

[2:08:50] Voice 7: So

[2:08:50] Voice 2: I wrote, yep.

[2:08:52] Voice 7: So in other words.

[2:08:53] Voice 7: I think Cam was absolutely right

[2:08:55] Voice 7: that to have a statement like this in the bylaw,

[2:08:58] Voice 7: it gives a lot more confidence to the property owners

[2:09:02] Voice 7: than our saying, oh yeah, we think this is what we're going to do.

[2:09:05] Voice 7: So I like that.

[2:09:07] Voice 7: I agree with you, Kim.

[2:09:09] Voice 7: Thanks.

[2:09:10] Voice 11: Yeah, thanks, Stephen.

[2:09:11] Voice 11: And so kind of building on what we see in front of us here,

[2:09:15] Voice 11: so that where the language currently we've provided,

[2:09:20] Voice 11: the flora area, reconstructive ulcer does not exceed the flora area,

[2:09:24] Voice 11: and then there'll be some, as you say, similar language,

[2:09:26] Voice 11: let's say it could be located in the same footprint,

[2:09:29] Voice 11: print provided that it's not built closer to the side yard that currently is constructed or

[2:09:34] Voice 11: something along the lines of that yep yeah okay now yeah

[2:09:41] Voice 11: and then we got a record of it because

[2:09:44] Voice 11: they'll send the stuff in as backup but we've got a record so it's verifiable now

[2:09:50] Trustee Patrick: in this case this

[2:09:51] Trustee Patrick: table is using the acreage and very similar to what you have versus converting to what you've

[2:09:57] Trustee Patrick: recommended steve is just thinking of being consistent between the the two it's funny your

[2:10:08] Voice 11: numbers are pretty good i

[2:10:09] Voice 7: think uh i think the um where am i here i don't i don't necessarily

[2:10:16] Voice 7: have a problem they see they go with less than 0.4 hectare or less than ours would say less than

[2:10:23] Voice 7: one

[2:10:26] Voice 2: half point five they

[2:10:28] Voice 11: ended up with four

[2:10:28] Voice 11: categories notwithstanding the

[2:10:31] Voice 11: we've got five and they've got four well

[2:10:34] Voice 7: they currently they have five as well oh they do

[2:10:38] Voice 11: the ones for

[2:10:39] Voice 12: the alr though yes like

[2:10:42] Voice 11: we've got we've got one more we've got

[2:10:46] Voice 11: we'd

[2:10:47] Voice 7: have three and it would apply to all zones not just residential what

[2:11:00] Voice 2: i could do

[2:11:01] Voice 2: is I could bring back for the March agenda is two options. One using the similar calculation

[2:11:13] Voice 2: that North Pender has used, just for your reference, and then the second chart with

[2:11:20] Voice 2: those three categories that we just discussed, just so you could see both options. Perhaps that

[2:11:26] Voice 2: that might help unless the LTC feels as though you want to go one way over the

[2:11:32] Voice 2: other right now.

[2:11:34] Voice 7: No, I, I, I think there's,

[2:11:36] Voice 7: we have altered the existing bylaw or the draft bylaw to such an extent that

[2:11:43] Voice 7: I need,

[2:11:43] Voice 7: I think we need to step back from it and come back to a March meeting and

[2:11:50] Voice 7: maybe combine that with a community information meeting so that the entire

[2:11:55] Voice 7: our community can sit down and go over this,

[2:11:58] Voice 7: these ideas and these numbers with us.

[2:12:02] Voice 7: And then it'll also give us some time to,

[2:12:05] Voice 7: we have a meeting with North Pender Island

[2:12:09] Voice 7: Trust Committee tomorrow that we're,

[2:12:12] Voice 7: Cam and I are going to attend.

[2:12:14] Voice 7: So we could probably have a bit of a mind meld

[2:12:17] Voice 7: and see where we can find some consistency

[2:12:20] Voice 7: and where the differences would be.

[2:12:22] Voice 7: I just noticed these are pretty close to the,

[2:12:26] Voice 7: what we just talked about that's

[2:12:30] Voice 11: embarrassing. Kim did they speak just more out of curiosity

[2:12:36] Voice 11: is North Pender looking at setbacks or not? No.

[2:12:40] Voice 2: No they're not just maximum floor area for

[2:12:43] Voice 2: residential. Yeah so just

[2:12:45] Voice 5: for setbacks on North Pender it's you know they've got the rural

[2:12:48] Voice 5: residential zones right which are really the small lot zones Magic Lake, Trincomalee and

[2:12:54] Voice 5: and the water system along Razor Point.

[2:12:58] Voice 5: And then

[2:12:58] Voice 5: some of the rural areas as well are residential.

[2:13:01] Voice 5: So they tend to be the small lot zones

[2:13:03] Voice 5: and they have the 10 foot side lot line setbacks there.

[2:13:10] Voice 5: Whereas with a few exceptions,

[2:13:12] Voice 5: South Bender, the rural residential lots

[2:13:14] Voice 5: tend to be a bit bigger.

[2:13:15] Voice 11: Right, yeah, I agree, I agree.

[2:13:17] Voice 11: Yeah, one

[2:13:18] Voice 5: exception might be the long, thin lots

[2:13:20] Voice 5: along Gowan Point, where the bigger area,

[2:13:23] Voice 5: yeah but they're

[2:13:24] Voice 7: north north pen yeah north panders um setback from us from the sea is 50

[2:13:29] Voice 7: feet though correct yeah that's it has

[2:13:31] Voice 5: been it has been for 25 years forever so

[2:13:34] Voice 2: for the rural

[2:13:35] Voice 2: residential zone yet they do have the three meter and 4.5 for exterior which is similar

[2:13:40] Voice 2: to the current south penderland use bylaw but

[2:13:43] Voice 11: as as as you both acknowledge i mean you know

[2:13:46] Voice 11: places like magic lake or i mean they're quite a different built form than what we have in most

[2:13:51] Voice 11: a pender a self pender so i would wanna i wouldn't want to hitch our wagon to that um so i'm fine

[2:13:58] Voice 11: with the suggestion so steve the idea is maybe just to clarify we're gonna see what counselor

[2:14:06] Voice 11: or stock deal come or the staff stock thank you trustee um um and

[2:14:14] Voice 7: i want some

[2:14:18] Voice 11: so staff are going to come back with this other table that we can look at it maybe solves the

[2:14:22] Voice 11: problem yes and

[2:14:23] Voice 5: do you want to land on one table or the other at this point or do you want to look

[2:14:28] Voice 5: at both i don't

[2:14:31] Voice 5: know i think

[2:14:31] Voice 7: i think we can create one that's similar to theirs on our own i don't

[2:14:36] Voice 7: think we need a comparison i think any comparison well it doesn't really matter to me i guess i just

[2:14:41] Voice 7: don't want you to go to the work if we're not really interested in seeing it it's

[2:14:47] Voice 2: fine i can

[2:14:48] Voice 2: do too just sometimes visual representation uh helps so i can easily enough put two together

[2:14:54] Voice 7: okay let's

[2:14:55] Voice 12: do that then okay all right well that's that's very helpful so that's the floor area

[2:15:10] Voice 12: regulations

[2:15:11] Voice 5: and you talked about the agriculture regulations which

[2:15:16] Voice 11: again will reach out to the

[2:15:17] Voice 11: to the the the agricultural tourism thing we'll just chat with our yeah community about whether

[2:15:24] Voice 11: that they think it's even something that they've got interest in right but we'll proceed with it

[2:15:29] Voice 5: as drafted or right

[2:15:31] Voice 11: yeah okay and then we then we talked about this then again just to be clear

[2:15:35] Voice 11: make sure that my colleagues are on the same page i i do firmly believe that that um we're

[2:15:43] Voice 11: going to protect everybody wherever their house is situated in relation to the side yard setback

[2:15:47] Voice 11: but i do believe on a going forward basis that that um a 20 foot setback for a house or a cottage

[2:15:55] Voice 11: is is is a good practice if we're trying to remember things we're trying to create more

[2:16:01] Voice 11: privacy between properties and we're trying to encourage um you know more more green space

[2:16:07] Voice 11: between um between properties it's it's a it's a good way to go i know we had a we had an

[2:16:14] Voice 11: information meeting um in the in the fire hall there some time ago and and i might be bruce

[2:16:19] Voice 11: McConkie that made the point that when you looked across from South Pender across to

[2:16:25] Voice 11: the properties on Razor Point, and not undermining the virtues of a 50-foot setback from the

[2:16:32] Voice 11: waterfront, but at 10-foot side yard setbacks, the setback from the sea could have been 100

[2:16:39] Voice 11: feet, but the way your eye sees it when you're looking at it, it still is bang, bang, bang,

[2:16:44] Voice 11: bang, because there's not much space horizontally between these properties.

[2:16:48] Voice 11: so the the setback of 20 feet makes makes a lot of sense and um and you know if there's a

[2:16:56] Voice 11: circumstance where somebody can't make it work then there's always the ability to revisit that

[2:17:00] Voice 11: through a variance yeah

[2:17:03] Voice 13: okay now i

[2:17:07] Trustee Patrick: was gonna say i just to we're ending up here on salt spring

[2:17:13] Trustee Patrick: are going to look more our work closer with the fire department and sort of the fire resiliency

[2:17:17] Trustee Patrick: and those issues going forward so i don't know where that's going to end with the set because i

[2:17:23] Trustee Patrick: because the fire department has a different mentality of how where they want us to have

[2:17:28] Trustee Patrick: buildings and access to buildings in relation to fire so it's going to be some interesting

[2:17:33] Trustee Patrick: things coming as we get more and more concerned about you know reducing the fire impact on

[2:17:40] Trustee Patrick: or helping to fight the fire i guess if you want to think of it the other way around from the fire

[2:17:45] Trustee Patrick: fire department perspective and

[2:17:47] Voice 7: that involves distances between structures as well that's our

[2:17:51] Voice 7: fire our fire department is done

[2:17:53] Voice 5: and building code building code is what drives the the fire

[2:17:56] Voice 5: separation so it's 10 10 feet from property lines and that's why you see no setbacks less than 10

[2:18:03] Voice 5: feet um using so i think it's you can construct as close to 10 feet using standard building um

[2:18:09] Voice 5: code practices if you want to build closer than 10 feet to a property line then you have to put in

[2:18:13] Voice 5: additional fire resistance longer longer fire rated walls now

[2:18:20] Voice 7: containers shipping containers

[2:18:24] Voice 7: were removed but i've spoken to a few people on the island and the suggestion has come back that

[2:18:31] Voice 7: we permit one container per acre to a maximum of three for larger properties so if

[2:18:41] Voice 11: you have one

[2:18:41] Voice 11: One acre or less, it's one.

[2:18:44] Voice 7: You get one.

[2:18:44] Voice 7: If you got two acres,

[2:18:45] Voice 11: you get two.

[2:18:46] Voice 7: If you got three acres, you get three.

[2:18:47] Voice 7: If you get four acres, you get three.

[2:18:49] Voice 7: If you get five acres, you get three.

[2:18:58] Voice 7: And the three only related to larger properties

[2:19:01] Voice 7: than the agricultural zone.

[2:19:03] Voice 7: That's

[2:19:04] Voice 12: where the concern came from.

[2:19:06] Voice 11: Pardon me?

[2:19:06] Voice 11: It's tidying, right?

[2:19:09] Voice 11: Say again?

[2:19:10] Voice 11: I'm sorry.

[2:19:10] Voice 11: I didn't mean to over-speak.

[2:19:12] Voice 11: They're still subject to the siting requirements

[2:19:16] Voice 11: requirements of an accessory

[2:19:18] Voice 7: and screening and and they would they would be included in the

[2:19:22] Voice 7: gross floor area of accessory buildings yeah

[2:19:26] Voice 11: i think that makes sense i mean in some ways you

[2:19:29] Voice 11: know um people right now are putting trailers on their properties and in some ways they're more

[2:19:36] Voice 11: unsightly um and probably more susceptible to breakdown over the years from the elements

[2:19:44] Voice 11: than a than a than a container so yeah i i think that's a fair comment or a fair fair suggestion

[2:19:52] Voice 11: a

[2:19:54] Trustee Patrick: lot of it's being driven by the cost of building it's yeah

[2:19:57] Voice 7: yeah very true so

[2:20:02] Voice 2: just to clarify if i

[2:20:04] Voice 2: may so it's one container per one acre to a maximum of three if you have three or more acres

[2:20:12] Voice 7: That's correct.

[2:20:13] Voice 2: Okay.

[2:20:14] Voice 5: And it could be one container on any lot, and then above one acre, it's one per acre.

[2:20:21] Voice 5: Well, we'll come up with the wording.

[2:20:22] Voice 5: It's similar to some of their wording and zoning.

[2:20:25] Voice 7: Okay.

[2:20:27] Voice 7: Yeah.

[2:20:27] Voice 7: Well, at least it'll get it out into the public realm for discussion.

[2:20:35] Voice 12: Okay.

[2:20:40] Voice 12: Okay.

[2:20:40] Voice 12: So,

[2:20:41] Voice 5: yeah, we'll make those changes.

[2:20:43] Voice 5: We'll bring them back at the March 4th meeting.

[2:20:46] Voice 5: So you're not ready to give it first reading at this point then.

[2:20:49] Voice 11: Is that going to slow down our overall timelines?

[2:20:52] Voice 5: Just going to say that.

[2:20:52] Voice 5: Yeah, we've got to be conscious of the timeline.

[2:20:54] Voice 5: We did schedule the February-March meetings just a month apart with this in mind, right?

[2:20:59] Voice 5: You'd be looking at a draft.

[2:21:00] Voice 5: You'd be coming back, making changes, bringing them back.

[2:21:03] Voice 5: But yeah, I'm starting to get a little worried about timing.

[2:21:08] Voice 7: Yeah, well, we were going to have a CIM.

[2:21:09] Voice 7: CIM so if we still can bring that forward in March and just introduce the new draft we can

[2:21:15] Voice 7: give it first so

[2:21:16] Voice 5: all indications are the first half of March will still be electronic okay it'll

[2:21:22] Voice 5: be in virtual CIM if you have one okay

[2:21:26] Voice 7: well we may we may end up having a community meeting

[2:21:31] Voice 12: yeah

[2:21:31] Voice 11: so if

[2:21:36] Voice 2: the LTC does want to move forward with the CIM it would be great to get a motion

[2:21:40] Voice 2: motion to that effect, a CIM,

[2:21:41] Voice 2: for the March 4th meeting.

[2:21:44] Voice 7: Okay, then I'll move that the South Bender Island

[2:21:47] Voice 7: Trust Committee hold a community information meeting,

[2:21:52] Voice 7: electronic meeting on March the 4th, 2022.

[2:21:57] Voice 5: In conjunction with the regular meeting

[2:21:59] Voice 5: would be the approach we take, yeah.

[2:22:01] Voice 7: In conjunction with the regular meeting.

[2:22:04] Trustee Patrick: Was that seconded by Trustee Thorne?

[2:22:06] Trustee Patrick: Yes, any discussion?

[2:22:08] Trustee Patrick: Mayor Mrakas, All those in favor and that's carried and

[2:22:14] Voice 5: then just a short resolution to direct staff to make the changes discussed today to the draft by law and bring back a new draft for the march 4 meeting I

[2:22:26] Voice 7: move that the self vendor local trust committee request staff to make the amendments to by

[2:22:32] Trustee Patrick: law number 122 by

[2:22:34] Voice 7: law 122 and bring them forward to the regular meeting in March, the fourth

[2:22:39] Trustee Patrick: seconded by Mayor Mrakas.

[2:22:40] Trustee Patrick: trustee thorne any discussion call the vote to all those in favor and that's carried anything else

[2:22:48] Trustee Patrick: you need for direction on this so

[2:22:50] Voice 5: in terms of the march meeting you're gonna have a cim we're gonna

[2:22:53] Voice 5: come back with the revised version maybe everyone's gonna love it um you maybe you're prepared to give

[2:22:59] Voice 5: it first reading at that meeting or maybe not right so you might want to make further revisions

[2:23:04] Voice 5: so but we'll have a report that will at least have the resolution wording if you do want to proceed

[2:23:12] Voice 5: with first reading that would be great

[2:23:14] Voice 7: and can i can we get the results of that amended bylaw

[2:23:19] Voice 7: at least two weeks before the march meeting is that possible give us a bit of i'll

[2:23:26] Voice 2: do my very

[2:23:26] Voice 2: best yeah

[2:23:27] Voice 7: i'll do my best it just gives us a little extra time to go over and get our ducks

[2:23:31] Voice 7: in a row

[2:23:32] Voice 2: absolutely i made a

[2:23:34] Voice 7: major project yeah

[2:23:35] Voice 2: i'll circulate the draft bylaw but not the staff

[2:23:38] Voice 2: report at that time because i imagine i'll need

[2:23:40] Voice 2: some time to do the staff report thanks thanks

[2:23:41] Voice 7: so much thank you thank

[2:23:44] Trustee Patrick: you all right then how's everybody doing anyone need a break or can we keep

[2:23:49] Trustee Patrick: going up to you

[2:23:52] Trustee Patrick: i'm just looking to staff you're all right yep okay just want to make sure everyone's

[2:23:59] Trustee Patrick: fine with proceeding so the next item is uh 13.3 it's the minor ocp amendments it's on page 96

[2:24:07] Trustee Patrick: of the agenda package and that again would be uh over to you planner stockville thank you

[2:24:14] Voice 2: uh so at the november 5th meeting the last ltc meeting the ltc decided or made the resolution

[2:24:23] Voice 2: to defer the rights of nature and removed it from the bylaw number 123. 123 was then given

[2:24:31] Voice 2: a first reading and then also referred out and a schedule or we had tentatively scheduled a

[2:24:40] Voice 2: community information meeting for today but in light of it being electronic meeting we thought

[2:24:46] Voice 2: that we would defer it until such time that we can meet in person. So as I mentioned the rights

[2:24:53] Voice 2: of nature was removed from the bylaw number one two three and there has been discussions about

[2:24:59] Voice 2: perhaps adding that back into the bylaw and if the ltc does wish to bring back the rights of nature

[2:25:07] Voice 2: what that would look like is actually um adding that back to the bylaw and then sending it out

[2:25:13] Voice 2: for re-referral based on the fact that we the ltc should receive comments um specifically

[2:25:19] Voice 2: specifically from First Nation community members or communities regarding the rights of nature.

[2:25:28] Voice 2: And as I mentioned for the timeline, we had tentatively scheduled a CIM for today's meeting,

[2:25:33] Voice 2: but we will defer it until hopefully we can meet in person or potentially we could schedule it for

[2:25:42] Voice 2: the March 4th meeting, considering we've scheduled the CIM for the draft bylaw 122.

[2:25:48] Voice 2: So at this time, staff have no recommendations for this proposed bylaw. There are a list of alternatives that the LTC could consider. But if the LTC does want to make any amendments to the proposed bylaw, we would ask for a motion to that effect. Thank you so much.

[2:26:08] Voice 11: Question. So we're looking at bylaw one, two, three now.

[2:26:13] Voice 11: Yes.

[2:26:16] Voice 11: And currently, the draft bylaw does not contain the wording on rights of nature because

[2:26:24] Voice 11: for the reasons you just noted. If we're to carry through with bylaw one, two, three,

[2:26:31] Voice 11: and ultimately give it third reading, we can't give it final adoption until it goes to the

[2:26:38] Voice 11: minister correct yes that's

[2:26:41] Voice 11: correct terms of the timelines and we know things take a while when it

[2:26:46] Voice 11: goes to the minister my my i i guess i'm just trying to understand if if there was if there

[2:26:53] Voice 11: was reconsideration for um reintroduction of the rights of nature whether that would

[2:26:58] Voice 11: be would have quite a drag on the timelines associated with this bylaw it

[2:27:05] Voice 5: would be because

[2:27:06] Voice 5: Because of the reason Kim mentioned that because the rights of nature has quite a bit of language about First Nations in it, which is commendable, we would recommend and certainly the ministry would want to see that that had been circulated to First Nations for comment.

[2:27:22] Voice 5: And so that's going to add another six weeks while we recirculate it.

[2:27:26] Voice 11: can it can it fly i mean i haven't even seen it i have to look at it but can it fly along

[2:27:31] Voice 11: on like if there's merit for it can that can that be on a different different ship than this one

[2:27:40] Voice 11: the rights of nature rather than being caught up under but like i guess what all i'm saying

[2:27:46] Voice 11: is i just really don't want to don't want to take away the the um i don't want

[2:27:52] Voice 11: to slow down

[2:27:52] Voice 11: yeah

[2:27:53] Voice 5: so you we could you could park it in a new bylaw one two four or whatever maybe we've already

[2:27:58] Voice 5: got a 124 for self-pender whatever 125 create a separate bylaw for that park it we'll maybe do it

[2:28:04] Voice 5: as a referral and that's it and then you proceed with this one because we'd like to get this one

[2:28:10] Voice 5: to public hearing as soon as possible so then we can get it to the minister yeah

[2:28:15] Voice 11: yeah yeah i'd be

[2:28:17] Voice 11: supportive of that i get maybe steve's got some some things he wants to speak about about the

[2:28:21] Voice 11: rights of nature why he felt is something wanted to bring back but um i want to keep the other

[2:28:26] Voice 11: going in the meantime yeah

[2:28:29] Voice 7: well i would i would definitely like to have the rights of nature

[2:28:32] Voice 7: reintroduced and sent out to first nations for referral um if it's going to hold up uh the these

[2:28:39] Voice 7: uh items that we're looking at today then um i'd prefer then i'd prefer to see that as a separate

[2:28:46] Voice 7: bylaw um it is tied to first nations very closely so um it seems to have some um some merit in

[2:28:57] Voice 7: and including it with the First Nations recognition

[2:29:02] Voice 7: that we're doing here.

[2:29:05] Voice 7: But if it's, again, I don't want it to slow it up.

[2:29:08] Voice 7: So let me move that the rights of nature be reintroduced

[2:29:15] Voice 7: to the trust committee's project list

[2:29:21] Voice 7: as a new amendment, a bylaw amendment to the OCP

[2:29:25] Voice 7: and refer it out to First Nations.

[2:29:28] Voice 7: is that all you need yeah is

[2:29:30] Trustee Patrick: there a second oh yeah a

[2:29:35] Trustee Patrick: second person is there any discussion

[2:29:37] Trustee Patrick: i just i i wanted to add a possible comment here i i know for the the shoreline protection you're

[2:29:43] Trustee Patrick: taking an approach a more comprehensive review and conversation which is going to entail

[2:29:48] Trustee Patrick: a comprehensive conversation with first nations and i should let you know that

[2:29:52] Trustee Patrick: fetus has been successful in getting community community funding for the same it's doing a

[2:29:57] Trustee Patrick: a parallel project of

[2:30:00] Trustee Patrick: entering into um conversations with the first nations on the on the shore on the shoreline

[2:30:05] Trustee Patrick: so i've just thought that you know there's an opportunity the two of those uh you know could

[2:30:10] Trustee Patrick: be connected that you know we we you know we want to have wholesome conversations with first nations

[2:30:16] Trustee Patrick: on on you know the direction of the shoreline so i'm just saying it could be combined and have a

[2:30:22] Trustee Patrick: deep conversation of the rights of nature the real you know the relationship of the of the shoreline

[2:30:27] Trustee Patrick: line and all of that so just something else to think about yeah

[2:30:34] Voice 7: anytime we can get together

[2:30:36] Voice 7: with first nations and talk about their interests and the protection of this land

[2:30:41] Voice 7: is more than welcome to me

[2:30:46] Trustee Patrick: okay uh is there any further discussion on this motion

[2:30:53] Voice 12: um

[2:30:56] Voice 11: so okay so no recommendations at this time um well we've got a motion well we have a motion

[2:31:03] Trustee Patrick: on the floor about the rights of nature

[2:31:05] Trustee Patrick: being a separate process yeah

[2:31:08] Voice 11: i thought we yeah we haven't

[2:31:11] Trustee Patrick: voted yet so i'll call the vote then all those in favor and that's carried okay now back to this one

[2:31:19] Voice 2: the next um item of clarification that staff would like from the ltc is if you'd like to hold

[2:31:25] Voice 2: a electronic cim which we could do for the march 4th meeting that would be in conjunction with

[2:31:30] Voice 2: bottle 122 or if you want to delay it until potentially may when we can meet in person

[2:31:36] Voice 11: well i mean again i'll look to see what my colleagues have to say but given

[2:31:40] Voice 11: the timelines associated with ocp amendments i'd rather have this move forward as an electronic

[2:31:49] Voice 11: cim uh personally um that's my view i totally

[2:31:56] Voice 5: agree alternately you could give us direction

[2:31:57] Voice 5: just to proceed to public hearing there would be a CIM associated with that like open it up

[2:32:05] Voice 5: for questions and then go right into

[2:32:07] Voice 11: we've had so much thought we've been talking about these

[2:32:09] Voice 11: things for ages I mean back in September of 2019 is when we first brought up the building design

[2:32:16] Voice 11: guidelines and the and the acknowledgments of First Nations is something that we've talked

[2:32:20] Voice 11: about for a long time as we all know what the last go around on the design guidelines I think

[2:32:26] Voice 11: everybody felt that it was appropriate

[2:32:31] Voice 11: for staff to work on the wording.

[2:32:34] Voice 11: I thought you guys did a good job.

[2:32:37] Voice 11: People can always speak at a public hearing.

[2:32:39] Voice 11: I don't think we need any more.

[2:32:41] Voice 11: I don't think we need to sort of

[2:32:43] Voice 11: have any more discussions around this.

[2:32:45] Voice 11: I'd be fine to go to a public hearing on it personally.

[2:32:49] Voice 7: Yeah, I would agree.

[2:32:50] Voice 7: I don't, as long as people get,

[2:32:53] Voice 7: we can get it out in the public

[2:32:54] Voice 7: and people could consider it before the public hearing,

[2:32:57] Voice 7: we can endeavor to do that.

[2:32:58] Voice 7: I think that's I think that's prudent so okay motion

[2:33:02] Voice 5: directing staff to schedule a public

[2:33:04] Voice 5: hearing for bylaw one two three and

[2:33:07] Voice 11: and Steve to your point if we don't change the wording in

[2:33:10] Voice 11: in the acknowledgments the first nations or the design guidelines then really it's already out

[2:33:14] Voice 11: in the public

[2:33:15] Voice 12: that's true yeah

[2:33:19] Voice 7: but there's only 20 people showed up at the meeting today and

[2:33:23] Voice 7: but there's millions

[2:33:24] Voice 7: watching us online one one quarter oh good good excellent all right then uh

[2:33:29] Voice 7: You want to make the motion there?

[2:33:32] Voice 11: Well, then I would

[2:33:33] Voice 11: make the motion that staff proceed to schedule a public hearing by law 123.

[2:33:40] Trustee Patrick: Is there a second?

[2:33:42] Voice 7: There certainly is.

[2:33:43] Trustee Patrick: Any discussion?

[2:33:45] Voice 7: I'd just like to thank staff for wording the building design and siting guidelines.

[2:33:53] Voice 7: lines um you took a big schmozzle of uh hopes and dreams on from cam and i and put it all into

[2:34:01] Voice 7: legible and understandable fashion i really want to thank you for that i think it's uh i think you

[2:34:05] Voice 7: did a great job on it

[2:34:06] Voice 11: agreed yeah thank

[2:34:08] Voice 7: you all

[2:34:10] Trustee Patrick: right then i'll call the vote all those in favor

[2:34:14] Trustee Patrick: and that is carried so you're going to go to public hearing we're going to have a busy march

[2:34:18] Trustee Patrick: fourth meeting so public

[2:34:19] Voice 5: hearing is not going to be in march just because of

[2:34:21] Trustee Patrick: the timeline okay

[2:34:22] Voice 5: okay well we'll we'll consult about whether we want to hold it as a special meeting or

[2:34:28] Voice 5: roll it into like the may meeting would be the next one after that yeah yeah okay

[2:34:33] Trustee Patrick: all right

[2:34:35] Trustee Patrick: news to come all right well then the next uh moving on our agenda then if there's no more

[2:34:41] Trustee Patrick: discussion there is um uh 14.1.1 which is our top priorities and projects list i'd say staff

[2:34:51] Trustee Patrick: are probably going to say please don't touch that we're trying to get things done this uh term

[2:35:01] Trustee Patrick: and the same with the projects list that uh in

[2:35:04] Voice 7: the middle of a meeting i'll have to phone you

[2:35:05] Voice 7: right back yeah i have

[2:35:08] Voice 11: no changes to make it thank you oh

[2:35:11] Voice 7: uh yeah sorry um 109 a projects report um

[2:35:20] Voice 7: One and two, regarding the shoreline report,

[2:35:28] Voice 7: it's been five years.

[2:35:29] Voice 7: I don't quite, I hate to say,

[2:35:33] Voice 7: but I don't quite understand how come it takes five years

[2:35:35] Voice 7: to get these things done.

[2:35:39] Voice 7: It was received in April of 2015.

[2:35:46] Voice 7: And it's just coming up.

[2:35:49] Voice 7: That seems like an eternally long time.

[2:35:53] Voice 7: was there was there a

[2:35:54] Voice 5: project on the projects list

[2:35:56] Voice 5: yes yeah so the so the projects list is for

[2:35:59] Voice 5: um potential projects that you want to undertake um but they haven't been

[2:36:06] Voice 5: haven't been resourced

[2:36:07] Voice 5: haven't been prioritized haven't been scoped to don't have a project charter or budget

[2:36:11] Voice 5: it's the top priorities are the ones that are being worked on

[2:36:14] Voice 7: okay so the previous

[2:36:15] Voice 7: the previous trust committee did not tell you to go ahead on exactly yeah okay or

[2:36:21] Voice 5: the current one

[2:36:21] Voice 5: Yeah. However, the

[2:36:23] Voice 5: shoreline review is on the top priorities and we're planning to get the

[2:36:27] Voice 5: discussion paper where you get the briefing coming up on this agenda for information and then

[2:36:31] Voice 5: specific discussion paper. Well, our aim is to get it for the March 4th meeting.

[2:36:36] Voice 7: Great. Thank you.

[2:36:39] Trustee Patrick: All right. So moving on, we have the applications list here. You have a

[2:36:47] Trustee Patrick: whopping large list here. Are there any questions on any of your applications?

[2:36:54] Voice 7: Well, I'm assuming this is stalled because they're still waiting to sort things out with the ALC, so

[2:37:01] Voice 12: I'll leave it to them.

[2:37:02] Voice 12: All right.

[2:37:05] Trustee Patrick: No other questions there. So we have your trustee expense report from, it's kind of old, it's from November, that's here.

[2:37:19] Trustee Patrick: We're not taking speakers.

[2:37:21] Voice 12: I

[2:37:21] Voice 7: have one question. Does this mean that the project expenses, can we draw from that for a particular project? I asked that the Raptor Nest update for OCP map be added to the agenda, and it didn't quite make it on and I'm not too particularly worried about it because I thought we could do it.

[2:37:45] Voice 7: It's

[2:37:45] Voice 5: under new business, 15.2.

[2:37:47] Voice 5: Okay, all

[2:37:47] Voice 7: right, carry on.

[2:37:48] Voice 5: But on the

[2:37:49] Voice 5: budget, yeah, no, you can't just spend money

[2:37:52] Voice 5: that's been allocated for one thing for a different thing.

[2:37:54] Voice 5: Okay.

[2:37:54] Voice 5: There is a process, but we can talk about it under 15.2.

[2:37:58] Voice 7: Thank you.

[2:37:59] Trustee Patrick: All right.

[2:38:00] Trustee Patrick: So then keep moving on then.

[2:38:02] Trustee Patrick: We have your policies and standing resolutions here.

[2:38:06] Trustee Patrick: There's no changes.

[2:38:08] Trustee Patrick: And then there is an Islands Trust Conservancy report here on page 116.

[2:38:13] Trustee Patrick: i hope it's important to read that and to encourage your constituents to see the work

[2:38:18] Trustee Patrick: that's being done by the conservancy um and then we can move on to the new business which is there

[2:38:25] Trustee Patrick: is the report here called the model bylaw report but there's no model bylaw attached to it but on

[2:38:31] Trustee Patrick: page 119 on the short it's really here for your information or if there's any questions with any

[2:38:38] Trustee Patrick: Anything you'd like to add, Robert?

[2:38:43] Trustee Patrick: That

[2:38:44] Voice 5: was referred by Regional Planning Committee.

[2:38:46] Voice 5: It's been one of the Regional Planning Committee's priorities.

[2:38:49] Voice 5: So it does have some good information that'll be refined

[2:38:53] Voice 5: or key ones will be brought out in the discussion paper

[2:38:57] Voice 5: specific to the South Bender project that's coming up.

[2:39:00] Voice 14: Great.

[2:39:02] Trustee Patrick: All right.

[2:39:03] Trustee Patrick: And then that brings us to the raptor nest.

[2:39:06] Trustee Patrick: That was added there at 15.2.

[2:39:10] Voice 7: Good.

[2:39:10] Voice 7: So,

[2:39:11] Trustee Patrick: Steve, you added that to the list. What would you like to talk about?

[2:39:14] Voice 7: Yeah. There was a property that was up for sale and there was some concern about

[2:39:20] Voice 7: an eagle nest site that was on the borderline of the property and what protection it could

[2:39:26] Voice 7: be offered and we turned them over to BC Wildlife. But it became clear that the map in our OECP

[2:39:34] Voice 7: schedule has has so out of date um for raptor nests and i contacted was lucky enough to run

[2:39:40] Voice 7: into a a person named david manning who has been studying raptors on these islands for

[2:39:46] Voice 7: a long time a long time and so i asked him if he would be interested in um giving us a survey

[2:39:55] Voice 7: of the current raptors nests including blue heron and he said he can do that be happy to do it

[2:40:02] Voice 7: all he would require would be a boat which we have arranged and some funding for fuel and uh

[2:40:12] Voice 7: i i think i'd like certainly like to take advantage of his offer and find whatever

[2:40:20] Voice 7: funding is required and what sources are required to the honest trust to provide those costs back

[2:40:27] Voice 7: back to him so um i just i i just want to say that we that this is an opportune moment that we can

[2:40:37] Voice 7: update our ocp map by someone who completely understands what we're doing here and uh the

[2:40:44] Voice 7: cost of it is going to be minimal so

[2:40:47] Voice 5: yeah dave dave banning did the original mapping just over

[2:40:50] Voice 5: a decade ago so yeah that's the so it certainly needs updating like you say we've run into some

[2:40:57] Voice 5: situations on North Pender where they are designated as development permit areas around

[2:41:01] Voice 5: the raptor nest trees, where there's a development permit area where there's no longer a nest in the

[2:41:06] Voice 5: tree. And then we've made aware of new nests that aren't designated as DPAs. So, and whereas on

[2:41:12] Voice 5: South Pender, it's more of an information schedule to the OCP, but certainly both would merit some

[2:41:19] Voice 5: some updating um so in terms of funding for this um the best approach is to make it a project

[2:41:27] Voice 5: and then after march 31st we can allocate some funding to it if he's willing to wait that long

[2:41:35] Voice 5: if it's a very minor amount of money you have that special projects i think it's 260 dollars

[2:41:40] Voice 5: in your ltc expenses but i would assume it would be more than that i'll

[2:41:46] Voice 7: cover coffee yeah that's

[2:41:48] Voice 7: about it or milk

[2:41:49] Voice 5: these days yeah for the coffee okay um so those are the two options um probably

[2:41:57] Voice 5: the best one is to make it put it on your projects list and then after march 31st when we're in a new

[2:42:04] Voice 5: budget year and we would have some money we could allocate some money to it um and then we could

[2:42:11] Voice 5: could also um you know do it with as a contract and then the deliverables we could get in a format

[2:42:19] Voice 5: that we could incorporate into our gis into our mapping system okay and

[2:42:25] Voice 5: dave did that last time

[2:42:26] Voice 5: he worked with i think was even mark van bakel was here at that time um i think he you know worked

[2:42:32] Voice 5: with him on on the to ensure that it's they're accurately mapped um to the tolerances that

[2:42:39] Voice 5: that are required, the standards, I guess you'd say.

[2:42:43] Voice 7: And North Pender is definitely interested

[2:42:44] Voice 7: in having a follow-up with them as well.

[2:42:48] Voice 5: Yep, so eventually

[2:42:49] Voice 5: there could be a project on.

[2:42:50] Voice 5: I think they added it to their projects as well.

[2:42:52] Voice 5: Do you remember?

[2:42:53] Voice 5: I

[2:42:54] Trustee Patrick: can't remember if it was that.

[2:42:55] Trustee Patrick: We did discuss it, what we did

[2:42:57] Voice 5: with it, I can't remember.

[2:42:59] Trustee Patrick: It seems like a month ago,

[2:43:00] Trustee Patrick: but I guess it was just last week.

[2:43:05] Voice 7: Okay, well then I'll move that we add

[2:43:07] Voice 7: to add the update of Raptor's nests to,

[2:43:11] Voice 7: for the OCP projects list.

[2:43:13] Trustee Patrick: Add it to the projects list.

[2:43:15] Voice 7: Add to the project list, thanks.

[2:43:18] Trustee Patrick: Is there a second?

[2:43:20] Trustee Patrick: Seconded by Trustee Thorne.

[2:43:22] Trustee Patrick: Any discussion?

[2:43:24] Trustee Patrick: Call the vote.

[2:43:25] Trustee Patrick: All those in favor?

[2:43:26] Trustee Patrick: And that's been added to the projects list.

[2:43:28] Trustee Patrick: All right, thank you.

[2:43:31] Trustee Patrick: I mean, these are all opportunities too.

[2:43:34] Trustee Patrick: I think there's lots of interest

[2:43:35] Trustee Patrick: for citizen science projects and things,

[2:43:37] Trustee Patrick: and this is a great one.

[2:43:38] Trustee Patrick: I mean for getting people interested in in it because no matter how good our maps are no matter

[2:43:44] Trustee Patrick: how often we do it things change and to get people interested and excited about being aware of what

[2:43:49] Trustee Patrick: it means what when's nesting season all of these things are great citizen science projects and

[2:43:55] Trustee Patrick: so good all right well that brings us pretty close to the end here um we do have a closed

[2:44:03] Trustee Patrick: meeting today but uh our next meeting is going to be march 4th um and at this point it uh we're

[2:44:10] Trustee Patrick: assuming it's in person but uh maybe there will be a dramatic change but uh i mean not in person

[2:44:15] Trustee Patrick: sorry virtual

[2:44:16] Voice 5: assuming it's virtual yeah we're

[2:44:18] Trustee Patrick: assuming it's virtual unless there's some change

[2:44:21] Trustee Patrick: which we're all hoping there could be so at this time there's a second the town hall that we have

[2:44:27] Trustee Patrick: i i want to make it clear we don't rework decisions that we made today so you are welcome

[2:44:34] Trustee Patrick: again to speak to us speak to the trustees not about people just issues and as always polite

[2:44:41] Trustee Patrick: and respectful so is there anyone that wishes to speak to us uh today in the second town hall oh

[2:44:51] Trustee Patrick: i see there's a hand uh john

[2:44:53] Voice 12: robin

[2:44:54] Trustee Patrick: are you there you go hello john can you hear us you have to

[2:44:58] Trustee Patrick: to take yourself off mute there you

[2:45:00] Voice 10: go hello zoom settings i'm going through hello um

[2:45:05] Voice 10: more out of curiosity and i've raised this before um i find the there's almost a fixation on

[2:45:14] Voice 10: a house size and um i think i expressed this at the last meeting we got together in person

[2:45:20] Voice 10: And the square footages that are being applied almost strike me as arbitrary.

[2:45:29] Voice 10: And the reason why I say that is that they, you know, for example, the ones that have been put forward represent a significant reduction in allowable building size.

[2:45:40] Voice 10: And you talk about being able to seek a variance, but there doesn't really appear to be a mechanism in which you might be able to get that variance for a larger size.

[2:45:55] Voice 10: And so a couple of queries really around this. One is, are you feeling at any risk that someone might challenge this legally?

[2:46:12] Voice 10: You know, you take, for example, in our case, I think that the allowable house size right now is 5,700 square feet, and that would be reduced to 3,500 square feet.

[2:46:26] Voice 10: perhaps less concern for us,

[2:46:29] Voice 10: but someone that has a 10 acre property

[2:46:31] Voice 10: that I believe there's even greater sizes listed to that.

[2:46:38] Voice 10: Essentially this represents a down zoning, if you will.

[2:46:44] Voice 10: And is there any concern that you could be challenged,

[2:46:48] Voice 10: that the trust could be challenged legally around that

[2:46:50] Voice 10: because someone might see it as a devaluation

[2:46:52] Voice 10: of their property, the property value they currently have.

[2:47:00] Voice 10: Secondly, you know, the idea that large houses come with more washrooms

[2:47:08] Voice 10: and more consumption of resources and things like that don't really take

[2:47:12] Voice 10: into account that people may be building a larger house more efficiently,

[2:47:20] Voice 10: that they may be capturing rainwater having less use of you know groundwater etc and they still

[2:47:27] Voice 10: have to be able to prove that they have adequate groundwater and so forth to to support whatever

[2:47:34] Voice 10: it is that they hope to build there and so i'm i'm curious how that's factored into the decision

[2:47:40] Voice 10: and the sizes that have been put forward so that's really my two my two queries here well thank you

[2:47:48] Trustee Patrick: John good questions I don't know anyone wants to address those today or those are things that

[2:47:54] Trustee Patrick: we'll take into consideration as we head into further conversation yeah

[2:48:01] Voice 7: as far as uh legal

[2:48:02] Voice 7: challenge um anything I guess is challengeable um a good friend of mine who's a lawyer said that

[2:48:10] Voice 7: they love people with principles and deep pockets uh so I I agree with you that uh if someone

[2:48:17] Voice 7: wishes to challenge any decision we make, they likely will. So we certainly have to be able to

[2:48:23] Voice 7: justify what we're doing. But before I get too far into that, I'm going to have to find out

[2:48:32] Voice 7: where the community sits and how much support there is for those.

[2:48:38] Voice 11: Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting point. In terms of legal challenges,

[2:48:43] Voice 11: is uh i suppose anybody i mean people raise legal challenges for what do they say vexatious purposes

[2:48:52] Voice 11: i mean people can can make a legal challenge in anything whether whether whether or not it's it

[2:48:58] Voice 11: has got merit is i guess another matter um certainly um we've seen recently um the district

[2:49:11] Voice 11: West Vancouver made changes to their bylaws, which resulted in a maximum house size, I think it's around 6,500 square feet. And it's interesting, I mean, that's a well-connected, well-moneyed community where people, I'm sure that there's a number of lawyers that live in that community.

[2:49:30] Voice 11: I would be interested to know whether we're seeing a proliferation of legal challenges in places such as that, where some of the homes there are 15,000, 16,000 square feet.

[2:49:41] Voice 11: And so now there's certainly lots of still properties that can be developed in West Vancouver.

[2:49:47] Voice 11: So I don't know. I mean, I guess somebody can make a legal challenge.

[2:49:50] Voice 11: For me, the numbers that I brought forward back in September and the numbers that Steve brought forward, and I'm certainly open to considering, for me personally, it's about what is good land use planning from the context of how massing fits into a community.

[2:50:18] Voice 11: uh i i completely agree that you can have situations where you can have a thousand

[2:50:24] Voice 11: square foot house that is far less energy efficient uh and maybe consumes more water than

[2:50:33] Voice 11: a big house there's lots of examples of homes where especially if you you've got a catchment

[2:50:38] Voice 11: system and you know some people are using solar and other things i mean you can be

[2:50:43] Voice 11: pretty much net zero so uh and i commend people for building that kind of thing and i think there

[2:50:48] Voice 11: is um there is there's a and i think we've talked about this before john there's a unique opportunity

[2:50:56] Voice 11: in our community because of the way density is defined as density is not square footage so

[2:51:02] Voice 11: i think we've heard from people in the in the vicinity of where you live and others that have

[2:51:07] Voice 11: expressed concern about some buildings that are quite large and maybe haven't taken into

[2:51:12] Voice 11: consideration the massing and how it's impacting properties around them whereas whereas the idea

[2:51:18] Voice 11: is being put forward here is not to prevent people from building bigger houses but it's to give

[2:51:26] Voice 11: an opportunity rather than just bringing in the bulldozer and just moving forward on whatever

[2:51:33] Voice 11: you want to do that that you know a variance would give an opportunity for people to be able

[2:51:38] Voice 11: to express their views work collaboratively to try and find solutions a lot of people to build

[2:51:43] Voice 11: a larger house if they so desired but do it in a way that works with the context of those around

[2:51:49] Voice 11: them so that's why i find it's an interesting uh approach all

[2:51:55] Trustee Patrick: right thank you all right thank

[2:51:57] Trustee Patrick: you john anyone else that wants to talk to us today uh gordy just a second there all right

[2:52:07] Trustee Patrick: gordy you should be able to talk to us if you take yourself off mute there thank

[2:52:11] Voice 9: you um can

[2:52:13] Voice 9: Can you see me? I think you can, can't you?

[2:52:14] Voice 9: We

[2:52:15] Trustee Patrick: can hear you.

[2:52:15] Trustee Patrick: Maybe you don't want to.

[2:52:17] Trustee Patrick: We can hear you.

[2:52:18] Voice 9: Anyway, interesting.

[2:52:21] Voice 9: Everything's changed again.

[2:52:22] Voice 9: And surprisingly, we've got house sizes now that are very close to what North Bender is,

[2:52:31] Voice 9: was what you started out two years ago.

[2:52:36] Voice 9: Setbacks are not changed.

[2:52:37] Voice 9: They're still the same, despite what your direction was in November.

[2:52:44] Voice 9: where are the existing homes and we're told now that you know 30 or 40 homes can go out and get

[2:52:49] Voice 9: a survey and contest whether they're following that just you know arbitrarily flippantly

[2:52:56] Voice 9: portrayed and I'm glad you know we've heard about green space floor and fauna green cover

[2:53:04] Voice 9: so I'm assuming you'll put 50 foot setbacks on all inland properties too so we can have nice

[2:53:12] Voice 9: green corridors down there that should you know it's fair for everybody what's good for the goose

[2:53:19] Voice 9: should be good for the gander so i i trust you'll amend that um and again um now do we have to uh

[2:53:29] Voice 9: pay for survey to to prove that we were legal to begin with uh which as i've already said is

[2:53:39] Voice 9: ridiculous then we can go ahead and ask for a variance permit which we've just seen the price

[2:53:45] Voice 9: rates go up and and of course we're told oh well it's just a little bit of cost you know you're

[2:53:51] Voice 9: building this really expensive house you shouldn't be worried about little costs like this but

[2:53:55] Voice 9: there's a principle here that seems to be totally forgotten and i guess uh trustee thorne doesn't

[2:54:02] Voice 9: like what he's hearing he's decided to leave so i guess the two of you will have to listen to me but

[2:54:09] Voice 9: it's rather disappointing to just see that I don't think there's been a a sizable amount of

[2:54:17] Voice 9: feedback but not to the to your liking so you're going to proceed and masking it now behind

[2:54:24] Voice 9: hectares doesn't really do anything uh why don't you just change it to the appropriate feet the

[2:54:30] Voice 9: language that everybody speaks so uh other than that you want to be in line with uh with North

[2:54:37] Voice 9: Pender. And let's face it, everyone knows about Hector's and I know that it's her sort of legal

[2:54:44] Voice 9: stand, but it's not the one that's used even today. And so I guess I'm disappointed, but not

[2:54:55] Voice 9: surprised. Thank you.

[2:54:57] Trustee Patrick: Thank you. Go ahead.

[2:55:00] Voice 11: Cordy, I appreciate you expressing your views. And maybe I misunderstood you. There's no

[2:55:07] Voice 11: no requirement for somebody should bylaw 122 pass and for example the setback for a side yard

[2:55:13] Voice 11: increased to 20 feet for a cottage or a house there is and let's say your house is less than

[2:55:19] Voice 11: 20 feet there's you don't need to spend any money on uh on a variance and you don't need to spend

[2:55:25] Voice 11: any money on a survey if if you so chose not to the bylaw already it you know again if it was to

[2:55:31] Voice 11: If it was to be passed, the wording that we're suggesting today would make it clear within the written form that the setbacks only apply to houses built after the date of the bylaw.

[2:55:45] Voice 11: But if people wanted to demonstrate with more clarity that their home was, in fact, lesser than the amount, then they could spend the money on a survey to demonstrate that.

[2:55:58] Voice 11: you know we're going above and beyond um just because this has become such a point of fixation

[2:56:05] Voice 11: for so many people uh again going back to the west vancouver thing and you know i'd be very

[2:56:10] Voice 11: interested in fact i'm going to do it myself because i'm becoming curious is that is in a

[2:56:17] Voice 11: place like west vancouver where the house size is now 6500 and you've got all these homes that

[2:56:22] Voice 11: are much larger is whether people are able to get insurance for those homes or maybe they're

[2:56:26] Voice 11: They're not anymore. You know, that would be an interesting thing to look at.

[2:56:30] Voice 11: So, you know, we're going the extra step of giving an opportunity to allow people to feel that legal nonconforming is fatalistic to their to their values and to their ability to get insurance,

[2:56:42] Voice 11: that there's a remedy for them to be fully covered under the bylaw, which is more than I think happens in most other communities.

[2:56:49] Voice 11: so

[2:56:50] Voice 9: uh well you know what you bring west vancouver in here the fact of the matter is the west

[2:56:56] Voice 9: vancouver appointed a committee that spent two years studying this they didn't just take the

[2:57:03] Voice 9: direction from the from the trustees or the counselors at the time there was a large long

[2:57:09] Voice 9: public process in uh determining uh the house sizes so let's just leave bank west vancouver

[2:57:17] Voice 9: out of it let's deal with

[2:57:19] Voice 11: so i'm going to reference it for this occasion but you don't

[2:57:22] Voice 11: need to speak about it if you don't want to what's

[2:57:26] Voice 9: that i

[2:57:27] Voice 11: said bernie that's fine if you

[2:57:29] Voice 11: don't want to talk about west vancouver you don't need to well

[2:57:32] Voice 9: but you're using it as a reference

[2:57:34] Voice 9: and i'm saying that they which you the south tender trustees have not uh created a public

[2:57:42] Voice 9: group I guess something to investigate all the sizes in a large core group so they did it went

[2:57:51] Voice 9: about it in quite a different way to come up with their their parameters that they're using now

[2:57:57] Voice 9: and they're still nowhere close to what we're doing here today with these huge setback

[2:58:06] Voice 9: implementations and again without any clear justification on why you know and just with

[2:58:13] Voice 9: the house sizes you've reduced 1.1 or 1.2 acre house with these proposed ones coming up by 20

[2:58:22] Voice 9: again and it's not the public that's fixated on the house sizes it's the trustees that are

[2:58:31] Voice 9: are fixated on getting these house sizes down

[2:58:35] Voice 9: under the guise of any number of reasons,

[2:58:39] Voice 9: but not well, in my opinion,

[2:58:44] Voice 9: which of course then is only one doesn't,

[2:58:48] Voice 9: there's no justification.

[2:58:52] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, Gordie, we will have there,

[2:58:54] Trustee Patrick: there's still the community process.

[2:58:55] Trustee Patrick: This is not a, this is a,

[2:58:58] Trustee Patrick: there's the community information meetings,

[2:58:59] Trustee Patrick: public hearings, everything yet to come.

[2:59:01] Trustee Patrick: we're still very early in the process so understood

[2:59:05] Voice 9: thank

[2:59:06] Trustee Patrick: you all right uh john i

[2:59:10] Trustee Patrick: see you put your hand up again there

[2:59:20] Voice 12: we go um

[2:59:21] Voice 10: is there a process related to a situation like this

[2:59:27] Voice 10: where um there's a significant alteration in um the utility of a property where all property

[2:59:37] Voice 10: owners have to be notified or is it simply reliance on whether they subscribe to updates

[2:59:44] Voice 10: to the Islands Trust website and hopefully received a notice, a written notice in their

[2:59:53] Voice 10: mailbox if they happen to have one?

[2:59:57] Trustee Patrick: Well, again, we're still early in the process.

[3:00:00] Trustee Patrick: we'll be going we'll see this again next month or there will be a community information meeting

[3:00:04] Trustee Patrick: and a chance and all those how we choose to make the community aware of the next steps will be

[3:00:10] Trustee Patrick: discussed kind of each each step is going to decide how to make sure that word gets out

[3:00:15] Trustee Patrick: is

[3:00:16] Voice 10: there currently a requirement though so for example if i bought 10 acres of land with the

[3:00:21] Voice 10: expectation i was going to build a 6 000 square foot house at some point and now uh the land use

[3:00:28] Voice 10: guidelines the bylaw is going to be changed so i can only build 3500 uh is there a legal requirement

[3:00:36] Voice 10: for the trust to notify me as a property owner i

[3:00:42] Trustee Patrick: don't have that answer answer um i

[3:00:44] Voice 7: think i think

[3:00:45] Voice 7: there is but don't quote me on i

[3:00:46] Trustee Patrick: see our regional planning manager pop up so uh let him answer that

[3:00:53] Trustee Patrick: question so

[3:00:53] Voice 5: the legal requirements are not related specifically to a change in the bylaws they're

[3:00:59] Voice 5: they're related to the holding of a public hearing.

[3:01:01] Voice 5: So where there's a public hearing is required

[3:01:03] Voice 5: or where the LTC chooses to hold a public hearing,

[3:01:07] Voice 5: notification of the public hearing

[3:01:09] Voice 5: has to follow the statutory requirements.

[3:01:13] Voice 5: If the change of the amendment

[3:01:16] Voice 5: were to affect more than 10 properties,

[3:01:18] Voice 5: then a mail notification is not required,

[3:01:23] Voice 5: but advertising is required.

[3:01:27] Voice 5: Okay, so-

[3:01:28] Voice 4: You

[3:01:28] Voice 5: might see a situation where say a single

[3:01:30] Voice 5: property is being rezoned from world to

[3:01:32] Voice 5: commercial or whatever there's a notification around that

[3:01:35] Voice 5: property but where the whole bylaw is being changed there's not a legal requirement to do

[3:01:40] Voice 5: a mail notification just advertising where

[3:01:44] Voice 10: do you normally advertise that um

[3:01:47] Voice 5: so the legal notice the

[3:01:49] Voice 5: legal requirement is to advertise in a newspaper the only newspapers in the area or the that meet

[3:01:55] Voice 5: the legal definition of a newspaper are um the driftwood the times columnist or the peninsula

[3:02:02] Voice 5: news review uh however by practice and policy we advertised the pender post um and on our website

[3:02:14] Voice 5: as well um uh there are legislative changes in the works for public hearings for all local

[3:02:22] Voice 5: governments um where the newspaper requires newspaper advertisement will no longer be

[3:02:27] Voice 5: required um it'll be replaced by alternative means of advertising which

[3:02:33] Voice 10: could include

[3:02:34] Voice 10: subscription notifications so forth yep

[3:02:37] Voice 5: website that sort of thing

[3:02:38] Voice 10: you know just an i guess a

[3:02:42] Voice 10: note of caution because i certainly have now participated enough of these meetings that i

[3:02:46] Voice 10: I continue to hear concern about major changes to property rights, and the inability to get

[3:02:56] Voice 10: together in person. And I mean, I don't know how, how well attended meetings were prior to COVID.

[3:03:05] Voice 10: But, you know, so that the meeting, last meeting that I attended in November, which was set up to

[3:03:11] Voice 10: to discuss this.

[3:03:12] Voice 10: I think there were 18 people potentially there,

[3:03:14] Voice 10: maybe 20 people.

[3:03:16] Voice 10: And I suggest that there are probably a lot more people

[3:03:20] Voice 10: that if they knew that there were significant changes

[3:03:25] Voice 10: being made to the land use bylaw,

[3:03:27] Voice 10: would be very interested to understand

[3:03:29] Voice 10: what the impact might be on their property.

[3:03:30] Voice 10: So I don't know how you mitigate concerns

[3:03:36] Voice 10: that this is being pushed through

[3:03:38] Voice 10: without proper consultation.

[3:03:41] Voice 10: or whether that is a concern, if you feel that the consultation, the way that it's been handled, has been more than adequate.

[3:03:51] Trustee Patrick: These are very good questions, John.

[3:03:53] Trustee Patrick: We're going to be going to, like I said, this next is a community information meeting,

[3:03:57] Trustee Patrick: and that's something the trustees will have to take into consideration as to what we hear at the next step.

[3:04:02] Trustee Patrick: And I can tell you, I know personally, we are cognizant of the fact that it has been a pandemic, and it's been challenging.

[3:04:11] Voice 11: I don't I don't know what you do I mean you know we've got uh I mean relative to other I mean I

[3:04:17] Voice 11: guess for one thing on a community of 200 plus people uh news travels fairly quickly so people

[3:04:24] Voice 11: are generally in the loop if they choose to be in the loop I mean people have the option to

[3:04:28] Voice 11: subscribe to the island's trust and get information sent out to them uh I think you know Gordy and

[3:04:35] Voice 11: others have done a pretty good job of of their of their community link in terms of sending things

[3:04:39] Voice 11: out and I think there's a pretty big subscriber list to that you know we've it's not like these

[3:04:45] Voice 11: things are topics that um that were undertaken under uh you know under the guise of a pandemic

[3:04:52] Voice 11: I mean we we've had public information meetings at the fire hall to the greatest extent possible

[3:04:58] Voice 11: we've been talking about these things for a long time the speed at which we've been dealing with

[3:05:02] Voice 11: of these things i would i would suggest is is much more measured and much more uh considerate

[3:05:09] Voice 11: of giving everybody a chance to speak two three four or five times on this relative to the changes

[3:05:14] Voice 11: that i've seen going on in in many municipalities in an urban setting uh so i think we're holding

[3:05:20] Voice 11: ourselves to a higher standard in terms of trying to give people an opportunity to be heard and to

[3:05:25] Voice 11: participate in the discourse but

[3:05:27] Voice 10: cam it's always the same people well

[3:05:30] Voice 11: i can't help

[3:05:31] Voice 10: it's the same

[3:05:32] Voice 10: people that come to the meetings is the same people every time i come on i hear the same

[3:05:35] Voice 10: people making comments but i

[3:05:37] Voice 7: so there's a lot of people right i don't know if

[3:05:39] Voice 7: you can give us an

[3:05:40] Voice 7: alternative and an option and a solution i mean

[3:05:43] Voice 7: i'd be more i'd be

[3:05:45] Voice 7: more than happy to hear it

[3:05:46] Voice 7: it's not a question

[3:05:47] Voice 7: in in many cases of getting the word out we have more of a problem making

[3:05:52] Voice 7: sure that the correct information is passed around well

[3:05:56] Voice 10: isn't isn't one of the ways to

[3:05:58] Voice 10: to mitigate that to make sure everybody gets the same word

[3:06:00] Voice 10: and then they can

[3:06:01] Voice 10: choose to deal with it or not.

[3:06:02] Voice 10: I mean,

[3:06:03] Voice 10: the assessment authority can figure out

[3:06:04] Voice 10: how to get your property tax notifications to you directly.

[3:06:08] Voice 7: If you're asking for a mail-out to each property,

[3:06:12] Voice 7: yeah, we're fully behind doing that.

[3:06:16] Voice 7: We don't have a problem.

[3:06:17] Voice 11: And we've done that.

[3:06:18] Voice 11: I mean, we've done a number of mail-outs.

[3:06:21] Voice 11: We did a mail-out last year.

[3:06:24] Voice 11: Seems to me it was around May of 2021.

[3:06:26] Voice 11: We did a mail out on a bunch of different things, summarizing the work that we've done to date and what we were looking to do in the future.

[3:06:32] Voice 11: And the stuff that I think we've been pretty no surprises.

[3:06:38] Voice 11: I mean, we we've been talking, you know, and that was a mail out.

[3:06:41] Voice 11: That was that was a mail out. It was also on the website about about all the topics that we're talking about right now.

[3:06:48] Voice 11: We did a mail-out when we dealt with the STVR issue. There was, oh, I don't know, 15 or 16 people in December of 2019 when we brought in Bylaw 117, which was to put a moratorium on things.

[3:07:05] Voice 11: And there was a bunch of people there that, again, sort of the people that come quite a bit. Everybody said, no, no, no, don't do it. We speak for the community. Everybody likes the way things are.

[3:07:17] Voice 11: are. I think, and I didn't participate in this meeting, but I certainly saw the correspondence

[3:07:21] Voice 11: flying around. I mean, I think just even on that example, it's, I think it's sometimes a false

[3:07:26] Voice 11: assumption that the people that show up and speak every week are necessarily representing the views

[3:07:31] Voice 11: of the entire community. And I'm glad they come and speak. And I wish other people would come and

[3:07:36] Voice 11: speak. But in this case, some people don't come out and express their views on something until

[3:07:40] Voice 11: it affects them personally. And I don't know how else we can change that. We do our best

[3:07:45] Voice 11: to communicate but you know you can't necessarily force everybody to show up and participate in

[3:07:50] Voice 11: things yeah

[3:07:52] Voice 10: i mean i i wholeheartedly agree with you um giving them the opportunity uh and they can

[3:07:59] Voice 10: choose to take advantage of that opportunity or not but a lot of people don't subscribe a lot of

[3:08:06] Voice 10: people don't uh maybe they're not around enough locally or they don't have the the um uh you know

[3:08:14] Voice 10: know the the communication network that

[3:08:16] Voice 13: allows

[3:08:17] Voice 10: them to keep track of these things uh it's just

[3:08:22] Voice 10: you know i i hear the the complaints that got voiced directed at the two of you or the three

[3:08:30] Voice 10: of you relative to public consultation and changes being made and concern about things

[3:08:35] Voice 10: being rushed and appreciate cam you know they weren't rushed this is this is all unfolding

[3:08:40] Voice 10: holding um but you know um if there's an opportunity like you might find that there's

[3:08:49] Voice 10: way more support for what you're doing than what you hear in the public information meetings from

[3:08:54] Voice 10: the same 18 or 20 people that show up and

[3:08:57] Voice 11: john i agree with you and you know and i get i respect

[3:09:00] Voice 11: everybody and you know gordy and i don't always agree sometimes we do and other people and that's

[3:09:05] Voice 11: all great that's part of a community i thought what was telling and i think you're onto something

[3:09:10] Voice 11: And I thought that was telling in just the one example that we mentioned earlier about the SPDRs, you know, everybody that came to the public hearing said, this is a very bad idea.

[3:09:21] Voice 11: We went to a mail out where we sent out a mail out to every property owner.

[3:09:28] Voice 11: So it wasn't an online thing, it was a mail out.

[3:09:31] Voice 11: And we got responses back that were fairly aligned with what Steve and I had been trying to propose as a policy approach.

[3:09:38] Voice 11: approach and then again just even today uh in the decision that again i wasn't part of it but

[3:09:44] Voice 11: you know there was a lot of people speaking out again so that the views that we heard through

[3:09:48] Voice 11: the survey and the views that we heard today were contrary to to you know there was more support in

[3:09:55] Voice 11: other words for for you know a different approach on sdbrs and what we would have led be led to

[3:10:00] Voice 11: believe from what we heard in december of 2019 so i think there is a silent group of people i wish

[3:10:06] Voice 11: they were less silent, but I think there is a lot of people that have views that are not

[3:10:12] Voice 11: necessarily expressed in these regular meetings.

[3:10:16] Voice 10: So what I hear, the majority of views

[3:10:21] Voice 10: by observation are don't change what's here now. And there are a few people that speak to the

[3:10:27] Voice 10: the potential benefits of changing things.

[3:10:31] Voice 10: And there may be, as I say,

[3:10:38] Voice 10: there may be an opportunity there to find out

[3:10:40] Voice 10: that there's a deeper interest in creating mechanisms

[3:10:47] Voice 10: that help to substantiate the aspirations

[3:10:51] Voice 10: of the official community plan and so forth

[3:10:55] Voice 10: than may readily be apparent

[3:10:56] Voice 10: by the public information meetings the town halls and and the people that that grab you by the lapel

[3:11:03] Voice 10: when they see you in public on the ferry or otherwise

[3:11:06] Trustee Patrick: yeah i agree

[3:11:08] Trustee Patrick: thank you and john i

[3:11:10] Trustee Patrick: encourage all the time it's like speaking of offer objectives or what should we be trying to do what

[3:11:17] Trustee Patrick: is it the accomplishments and things too sometimes it's um you know helpful to hear that um instead

[3:11:23] Trustee Patrick: instead of just responding to, I don't want this, what is it that, is it that we are trying to

[3:11:31] Trustee Patrick: vision and see happen? So.

[3:11:34] Voice 10: Yeah, Steve and I have talked about this in the Shoreline,

[3:11:37] Voice 10: the Shoreline Working Group, and that is, it's easier to understand what you have and thinking,

[3:11:48] Voice 10: you know, thinking this is what I can do, even if I'm not going to do it, but this is what I

[3:11:52] Voice 10: I understand, versus taking it to somewhere where people might perceive that you're taking

[3:11:56] Voice 10: something away. And in fact, much of what's being discussed is preserving these qualities that are

[3:12:06] Voice 10: so well regarded and deeply held. And helping people understand that may prove to be more

[3:12:17] Voice 10: more beneficial in the long run.

[3:12:19] Voice 10: I'm sorry, I'm going off.

[3:12:20] Voice 11: No, well, thank you.

[3:12:21] Voice 11: That's exactly.

[3:12:22] Voice 11: You're a very articulate guy, John,

[3:12:24] Voice 11: and I would encourage you to speak more frequently

[3:12:28] Voice 11: because I think a lot of times

[3:12:31] Voice 11: you've spoken quite eloquently in the past

[3:12:33] Voice 11: about the specialness of what we have here

[3:12:39] Voice 11: and the need to, you know, I'm not anti-big hole.

[3:12:43] Voice 11: I just really think it's important that we,

[3:12:45] Voice 11: And we don't have a DP process for how we do things, and I'm not suggesting we do there, but rather than just bringing in the bulldozer and going forward and building a large structure that can sometimes be quite impactful on the people around you, it's nicer if we have opportunities for people.

[3:13:05] Voice 11: and i don't know what that mechanism is but where we have an opportunity where we we do

[3:13:09] Voice 11: have a chance to um talk to those around us and maybe you understand what the values of the place

[3:13:16] Voice 11: in which we live

[3:13:18] Voice 10: wholeheartedly encourage it i appreciate it's a difficult uh task

[3:13:23] Voice 7: always difficult when you're trying to deal with common good and you run up against uh

[3:13:28] Voice 7: what's good for uh personal yeah difficult to

[3:13:33] Voice 13: separate self-interest

[3:13:34] Voice 7: there's a conflict we're

[3:13:36] Voice 7: in and we'll try and resolve this as best as we can

[3:13:39] Voice 7: all

[3:13:40] Trustee Patrick: right thank you so much anyone else because

[3:13:44] Trustee Patrick: we still have to head into an in-camera meeting so again we always want to hear from you please

[3:13:48] Trustee Patrick: reach out to your trustees or send emails to southinfo at islandstrust.bc.ca and we'll get

[3:13:55] Trustee Patrick: that because you're what you have to say is very important so thank you okay with that i think we're

[3:14:02] Trustee Patrick: we're going to head into a closed meeting

[3:14:04] Trustee Patrick: and I need one of you to read the motion

[3:14:06] Trustee Patrick: that's on page three of the agenda package.

[3:14:09] Voice 7: I move that the meeting be closed to the public

[3:14:11] Voice 7: in accordance with the community charter part four

[3:14:14] Voice 7: division three section 90.1.A.D for the purpose

[3:14:18] Voice 7: of considering a adoption of in-camera meeting minutes

[3:14:22] Voice 7: dated May the 7th, 2021 and appointment of APC members

[3:14:27] Voice 7: and that the recorder and staff attend that meeting.

[3:14:29] Voice 7: is

[3:14:30] Trustee Patrick: there a second second by trustee thorn any discussion i'll call the vote all those in favor

[3:14:37] Trustee Patrick: and we are going into in camera if it would be can can i have a five five minute quickie

[3:14:43] Trustee Patrick: a break

[3:14:46] Voice 11: sure why not are we you're

[3:14:51] Trustee Patrick: staying on this platform robin will lock things down so if we

[3:14:55] Trustee Patrick: We can take a quick break while this gets locked down.

[3:15:00] Trustee Patrick: So five minutes sound good?

[3:15:02] Trustee Patrick: All right, see you shortly.